# Do you think thus is appropriate behavior?



## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Just wondering how many of you men out there think its okay to hit or break things when you're angry. And if you don't think it's okay do you still do it anyway? My stbx says all his friends do it and some are much worse than him. As if that should make me feel better.... Sigh


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Not normal. It's better than him hitting or breaking you, but it's not normal.

My husband did it a few times, in private. He told me later about it. Fine.

But during an arguement, to break something or hit something nearby is a threatening maneuver ...like a warning to the other person.

Not cool.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Really?

Do you really need to ask that question?

Is your life experience so limited that you don't know if its OK or not to smash things when your mad?

Gimme a break.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MrsOldNews said:


> Just wondering how many of you men out there think its okay to hit or break things when you're angry. And if you don't think it's okay do you still do it anyway? My stbx says all his friends do it and some are much worse than him. As if that should make me feel better.... Sigh


It’s debateable but there are six base emotions: Anger, Fear, Sadness, Joy, Surprise and Disgust.


So for sure everyone (if they’re alive) will get angry in their lifetime, that’s a given. What’s not a given is what a person does with their anger. And in that there are two distinctly different types of anger. One is active, the other passive.


For me active anger is way better than passive anger. I can deal with active anger because I know it’s there. It’s not the same with passive anger which is long lasting and massively damaging most especially within a marriage.


But neither active or passive anger actually solve anything. In fact they make matters far worse. It’s much better that a person learns to deal with their anger in healthy ways. And if their parents didn’t teach them how then it’s something they have to teach themselves.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MrsOldNews said:


> Just wondering how many of you men out there think its okay to hit or break things when you're angry. And if you don't think it's okay do you still do it anyway? My stbx says all his friends do it and some are much worse than him. As if that should make me feel better.... Sigh


No, it's not OK for anyone, male or female, to hit or break things when they are angry. Especially not in front of your partner. No matter what other people do or don't do.

If we know this is not OK but we still do it, we have a self understanding/self control deficit. This is not really surprising since few to none of us get any real help in this area or even a sense that it is really important.

But this doesn't let anyone off the hook. We are all responsible for ourselves and our behavior. Your stbx denies this responsibility when he compares himself to his internal image of his friends. And I can't believe that he doesn't have at least one friend who doesn't break stuff.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Mistys dad I asked this question to show the answers to my husband as my opinion means nothing to him on the issue. I was hoping he could see people outside of his group don't find this to be normal or acceptable behavior. Now I have a question for you, did you try to act like a d*** when answering my post or does it just come naturally?


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

Hitting or breaking things is a sign that their anger cannot be managed properly ... hence why anger management classes have been introduced. 

Just because it's common doesn't mean that it's ok.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

MrsOldNews said:


> Just wondering how many of you men out there think its okay to hit or break things when you're angry. And if you don't think it's okay do you still do it anyway? My stbx says all his friends do it and some are much worse than him. As if that should make me feel better.... Sigh


When I found out about my H lying to me about his OW, I would go to the town dump and the guys there would give me safety goggles and I'd throw glass against the back cement wall of the glass recycling area. It was awesome. The guys would cheer me on. :smthumbup: It was great therapy. And NOTHING to clean up! It was wonderful to have my rage acknowledged. Of course, now my stbxh has to go to that dump. I go somewhere else, no more glass throwing, no more need.

Apparently it's a common thing. When I went to the VA for help for a physical illness, I think the instances I described of smashing some objects in a safe environment, they said was sort of normal. They didn't think it was odd, but I do think it helped to clue them into that I was in denial about being in an abusive relationship, and they also were impressed at my honesty. My stbxh, on the other hand, has described road rage to me, in particular on Christmas day and he is quite the aggressive and self-righteous driver, especially when he has his cruise control on, he'll drive in heavy traffic and tailgate, we were in a couple accidents because of this, he is not a defensive driver at all, he would rather be right than intact. His opinion seems to be that he doesn't need to avoid an accident so long as it can be the other person's fault, even if he really can avoid the accident. I don't get that, because dead or dismembered is dead or dismembered, there is no right or wrong to that. Whereas throwing glass with safety goggles on or smashing a shovel against a wood-frame garage...well, it's more or less harmless. Not everyone can afford a sport like hockey or rugby or squash. 

I agree with other posters though that to smash or hit things in front of others in order to intimidate is wrong, but therapeutic, pre-meditated smashing in a safe environment, why is this wrong? People play sports, people play violent video games, people go on bumper cars, people shoot for sport, and they even box or wrestle for money. Anger in itself is not a bad thing. Giving it an outlet is healthy. But scaring other people is not.

I posted recently, I once cancelled a therapy appt because I felt too angry to drive, therapist asked me what was I going to do, I said bang a shovel against the inside of a wood frame garage and holler for a bit. Under the circumstances, it was an okay thing. There wasn't much I could do about the source of the anger, as cheating lying person was deployed and still gaslighting and manipulating as best he could. 

Now, people who repress anger, they turn it inward...maybe end up having bad driving habits, don't sleep enough, overeat, undereat, can be rude to others, drink too much, might end up being abusive to themselves in social or physical ways or financially irresponsible, etc. If you are angry it is going to come out. Why not recognize it and defuse it?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MrsOldNews said:


> I asked this question to show the answers to my husband as my opinion means nothing to him on the issue. I was hoping he could see people outside of his group don't find this to be normal or acceptable behavior.


Ok. So you are not ok with this behavior and your opinion of that means nothing to your husband. 

How do you feel about that? 

Also, you can't "make" someone see something as "good/bad" if they don't believe it is. Fact of life. 

So what is your plan?


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks for the responses everyone, I appreciate it . I especially like the last part of Ten_Year_Hubby's response. Im really hoping I can get him to go to anger management. But he sees it as my issue with him not his own issue affecting me and our daughter.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How is him throwing things and breaking things your issue? 

Those are all his behaviors/actions. 

You cannot make him go to anger management. Hell, you can't even make him see what he's doing is wrong. He would have to do that and acknowledge it on his own. From your post, it appears he blames you for his actions.


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Also, you can't "make" someone see something as "good/bad" if they don't believe it is. Fact of life.


Can I get an amen


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

If your husband doesn't care that you think it is unacceptable then how will an Internet website change his mind?

I'm sorry you have such a hard time understanding what is appropriate behavior.

Perhaps that is more the issue. Your inability to set and enforce boundries.

and it comes natuarally, your welcome.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

My plan is to leave asap. I have a full time job starting in two weeks. I will be moving out as soon as I find a suitable home to purchase. I don't think he believed me when I told him I can survive just fine without him lol. Im fully aware you can't change someone if they're not willing to change themselves. However our daughter will still see daddy frequently and I don't want her picking up on his anger/tantrums and thinking it's an acceptable way to communicate feelings.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> but therapeutic, pre-meditated smashing in a safe environment, why is this wrong?


Because it tends to increase aggressive behavior over time.


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## SomeLady (Feb 21, 2012)

Mistys dad said:


> Really?
> 
> Do you really need to ask that question?
> 
> ...


Don't be harsh. Some people really are naive. Some people are raised in homes where that's "normal." Some people are so gaslighted by abusive SO's that they no longer trust their own instincts, so they need to ask other people, "Is it raining? I feel droplets, and I'm wet, but I just need to be reassured, here." It tends to get better when they're out from under the rain cloud a while.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Mistys dad, he is one of those guys who believes anyone's opinions but mine. I am very much an alpha female and he is very much an alpha male. That alone caused many issues with us apart from his anger issues. I think the reason for our downfall is he wanted a suzie homemaker and I wanted a man not another child lol. But I digress, the real issue is his anger and yes I do think some random Internet opinions are worth more to him than my own so please state the obvious.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

I know it's not right to break/hit when angry, I was just looking for words of affirmation so I can later share thus post with stbx. To clarify a little about the angry issues I grew up with two parent who will be very happily married fir32 years this march. He grew up with an abusive alcoholic father and a co dependent passive aggressive mother. I never saw his anger come out in full force until I married him. 

He always said he wanted to be nothing like his father and yet he is almost identical to him in so many ways now. I can count on one hand how many times my parents had some epic battles in my life. None of those battles included breaking things hitting things or name calling. I myself grew up with anger issues, mostly teenage angst. But I've broken a few doors in my teenage years.

I got over my issues because I came to realize how much they were inhibiting my growth as a person. I wish he thought similarly. But the holes in my hallway walls, my master bed room door, the door to the garage, the glass in two old coffee tables tell another story. He does this during discussions turned fights and every time he has to fix or improve something.

Again I know you cannot make someone get help but sometimes you can help them see the error of their ways. I really feel if I could help him understand why it's wrong then he would be able to work towards improving his behavior.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

everyone has a breaking point. some are very quick and some take forever to manifest, like me. but its inside of everyone i believe. i have pushed that far, and i hate it.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Because it tends to increase aggressive behavior over time.


Really? Hasn't been my personal experience.
I mean, sometimes I step on someone when I'm ballroom dancing, but it's usually my partner's fault for not watching where he's backing me. I usually just bake cookies and stuff. 
Since I got therapy and got away from the person I was legitimately angry with, the anger having to be bottled up has stopped. Now I have a more natural recognition of when I am upset about something and a better feel for the horrible situation I was in before. 

We don't really know very much about what the situation is surrounding this anger. Maybe he has been trying to address his concerns that cause the anger, but they're being dismissed. Yes, the OP is scared for herself and her daughter, but not enough to flee. It seems like she just wants to show this guy that she is right she can survive without him. I think buying a house in two weeks is an irrational statement. Maybe the uncertainty in the relationship is creating some of the anger. I don't know. 

To point fingers at someone who's angry and say it is bad, is to show narrow-mindedness about situational, symptomatic anger. If my therapists had jumped to that conclusion I never would have found out I had a reason to be angry. I would have just gone on in an asbusive relationship with my H doing crazy making stuff and then calling me crazy, and refusing to let me go get psych care when I wanted it. Anger has a source. If it's not the OP then that's fine. It's also not the OP who can control her H's anger nor can she minimize it or do anything to get rid of it. It's one thing to say anger and throwing things is wrong, it's another thing to say it while you're standing in the way of the frying pan as it flies towards you. You must be pretty angry yourself if you want to get hurt. It's still smashing things, and hurting things, it's just allowing it to happen, using someone else to do it and to continue to perpetuate the situation that allows it to happen. Waiting to find a house that she can afford is accepted cart-blanche as a legitimate excuse for her perpetuating a situation she can choose to leave now. Her presence is 1/2 of the toxic relationship that's causing the anger. The responsible thing to do is to leave immediately. Especially if you're responsible for a 10 year old who might suffer collateral, physical damage.
It's insane to keep a child in those sorts of living conditions.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Gratitude said:


> Can I get an amen


Amen! 



MrsOldNews said:


> Mistys dad, he is one of those guys who believes anyone's opinions but mine.


Must make for a crap marriage. 

Homemaker, everyone feels angry. It's a human emotion. The problem here is when one person in a relationship sees the throwing/breaking things as a problem and the other one doesn't. It's a fundamental difference between them. 

Ten is right about this behavior getting worse over time. Especially if it's coupled with "anger issues." The fact the OP stated she has a problem with it and he told her he doesn't care what she thinks AND she mentioned she thinks anger management would beneficial to him paints a picture that isn't good. And let's not forget he told her he thinks the problem is hers. Say what?

Some anger is ok. When you are breaking things and throwing things and you've been told by your spouse that this behavior is causing a problem and you continue to do it, that is NOT good. 

I was married to a breaker/thrower. The temper does get worse over time. One time he broke the door off its hinges over a shirt he could not find. Completely just broke the door off. He was also the "Your opnion doesn't matter to me" type. That is not normal and it's not ok and it does not make for a healthy relationship.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

what is normal?

ever watch grand torino with clint eastwood?

the seen where he punches holes through the cabinets because the next door girl got raped.


sometime anger and sorry and disgust get all tangled up and you need a good vent.

I would punch things in anger as a young guy but as I aged I realised that my fists hurt and then I have to replace things I break when I act like that. 

with that said there are still time when my hot buttons are pushed that I could easily fall back to that behavior. which I fight by removing myself from the situation before I hurt my hands or something/someone I love. 

with that said studies have shown venting with violence only make you more pron to violence.

But in the seen with clint eastwood I could see how it could happen.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Homemaker I believe your issue involved anger and thats where the similarities in our issues end. My husband was brought up in a family where it was and is okay to dismiss your wife's feelings, to act aggressively and throw things in anger. Not to mention the abuse he witnessed his father do to his mother and older brothers growing up. I feel like he is very in tune with two emotions, anger and whatever emotion comedic behavior falls into. He gets angry around other people to and has told me this is the way he's always been. I should have gotten to know his family better and saw through his b.s earlier on but to little to late on that front. 

He will break whatever he's working on if it's missing some important part and then find the part not far from him in the process. I know I'm not completely innocent in all this, and I try my damnedest to remain calm when he gets like this which is hard when you're scared ****less. I never get in the way of things he throws, I'm not looking to be anywhere near him when he does this,why would I? 

Also we had agreed I would stay at home with my daughter until she turned 2 then go back to work. I have no money and nowhere to go except my parents 2 bedroom Condo which is in a 55 and older community. My parents have agreed to help me purchase a house when I have a full time job intact. Since January I have completely gave up on ever working things out at all and have no fight left in me for anything. Since then he has been slightly easier to deal with. But still pissed at the world.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Because it tends to increase aggressive behavior over time.


I am not sure this is the case. I know people who use weightlighting and boxing, including punching bags, to destress and deal with anger. I have not seen any increase in agrressive behavior.

It is about remaining in control while being angry. Punching or throwing while around others is about intimidation and is not being in control. To me it is not acceptable.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MrsOldNews said:


> I grew up with two parent who will be very happily married fir32 years this march. He grew up with an abusive alcoholic father and a co dependent passive aggressive mother. I never saw his anger come out in full force until I married him.
> 
> He always said he wanted to be nothing like his father and yet he is almost identical to him in so many ways now.
> 
> ...


Sadly, I have way too much personal familiarity with this situation. The generational effect of alcohol abuse is staggering. This is not something you two can fix on your own. If there is one thing I can do for you, it would be to encourage you reach out for help.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Mrs., 

You said he's your stbx. Let it go, let HIM figure out his crap. Just step back, focus on getting out. Period.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Punching through a cabinet in your own house (with no one else present) is far different than smashing something in the presence of your spouse.

I've had it done several times around me. Alarm clocks, other airborne items, etc. Of course, I wished it would stop.

This is another one of the things my wife does that I don't consider to be nice.


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## cloudwithleggs (Oct 13, 2011)

hmmm estranged husband does this when he finally rages, he pulls doors off hinges, he has done anger management now.

He still got angry this christmas though he used his full body force against me pushed and shoved me (he is a big guy), i ran away from him, he chased me upstairs, i tried to hold the door shut from him but couldn't, managed to phone the police, they were then there within minutes, he got kicked out.

He has never actually hit me, but he has done other things like erratic driving and locking me in.

he goes back into counselling soon.

So no it is not normal

but the sex is hot, what to do, i tried to tell myself it was boring but it is really not.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

It was normal for me as a teenager, but that is where I left it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lionelhutz said:


> It was normal for me as a teenager, but that is where I left it.


I know little kids do it.

Something to think about, isn't it?


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

cloudwithleggs said:


> hmmm estranged husband does this when he finally rages, he pulls doors off hinges, he has done anger management now.
> 
> He still got angry this christmas though he used his full body force against me pushed and shoved me (he is a big guy), i ran away from him, he chased me upstairs, i tried to hold the door shut from him but couldn't, managed to phone the police, they were then there within minutes, he got kicked out.
> 
> ...


 I'm speechless...


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## cloudwithleggs (Oct 13, 2011)

Mrs. T said:


> I'm speechless...


So is he often but we are working on it :smthumbup:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My ex-husband used to throw and break things when he was angry. He was angry often. He also used to push me round, hurt me by twisting my arm, etc.

When I went to counseling for all of this I was told that throwing and breaking things in anger has a message... the message is that next time it just might be you who gets broken. It's a threat.

At some point, have no doubt that your husband will turn that anger on you phsyically. It's even more likely because his father used the same type of behavior.

Another thing I have learned is that when people go into fits of throwing and breaking things they are not out of control.. they know exactly what they are doing.. that's why they never break their own favorite things. Generally they find things to break that either they do not care about or that belong to the person why are trying to intimidate and control.

If you call the cops during such an episode they would consider this domestic violence.


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## cloudwithleggs (Oct 13, 2011)

Parents sometimes have alot to answer for, i know my estranged husbands parents were both sadistic, his mother if angry would totally lose it and punish even in the middle of the night, making them do cleaning and such, his father used the belt, but not always fairly, say his mother would give him something he was not allowed then his father would punish him for it.

Both his sister and himself will use voices they despise normally a person they have a great dislike for as in step mother, if you are having an argument, they then place that persona on to you and suggest you are that person.

He is the first man that has ever called me names, lots of names, this behaviour is totally foreign to me, just as the vindictive mean spiteful behaviour is that he will portray, i think in his mind this is a punishment for me. 

I had tried to understand his behaviour before but he wouldn't talk about any emotional issue, as he saw himself as vulnerable and weak, so he chose to bury it and never discuss anything with me on an emotional level, if you do this you can't move on and resentment grows, he is starting to understand this now, i told him i have no wish to hurt him and i see being open and vulnerable as a strength. 

I am so please my mother was loving, kind, gentle, and always fair, she never physically hurt me let alone mentally. I always had a good sense of right and wrong as a child. 

You know i have much more success with horses, give me something totally wild or that has been disturbed by an idiot i can normally put them right.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

MrsOldNews said:


> Homemaker I believe your issue involved anger and thats where the similarities in our issues end. My husband was brought up in a family where it was and is okay to dismiss your wife's feelings, to act aggressively and throw things in anger. Not to mention the abuse he witnessed his father do to his mother and older brothers growing up. I feel like he is very in tune with two emotions, anger and whatever emotion comedic behavior falls into. He gets angry around other people to and has told me this is the way he's always been. I should have gotten to know his family better and saw through his b.s earlier on but to little to late on that front.
> 
> He will break whatever he's working on if it's missing some important part and then find the part not far from him in the process. I know I'm not completely innocent in all this, and I try my damnedest to remain calm when he gets like this which is hard when you're scared ****less. I never get in the way of things he throws, I'm not looking to be anywhere near him when he does this,why would I?
> 
> Also we had agreed I would stay at home with my daughter until she turned 2 then go back to work. I have no money and nowhere to go except my parents 2 bedroom Condo which is in a 55 and older community. My parents have agreed to help me purchase a house when I have a full time job intact. Since January I have completely gave up on ever working things out at all and have no fight left in me for anything. Since then he has been slightly easier to deal with. But still pissed at the world.


But it's unsafe. You got to leave. Staying because of some prior agreement is, again, irrational. It seems you have clarity about your H's behavior in that it is wrong, yet don't you see making a child stay in the way of random flying objects is just as irrational as him throwing them. Trust me, my mom threw casserole pots at us. Hit my head. You think I stayed with her any longer than I had to? Nope, quit high school at 17 and left. Go to a shelter. I didn't say, oh, I have to finish high school before I can stay alive and intact. You think too much!!!!!


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