# Wife Cheated On Me 4 Months After Wedding.



## Hurts

This might be a bit too long but I want to to spill all the emotions I feel and also to provide you with enough details for context.

Age: Mid twenties
Dating: 3 years
Married: About 4 months ago. (had a small ceremony in court with immediate family and some close friends. kept it private, everyone thinks we are still engaged as we were planning a grand public event in the fall next year- so late because, one of her brothers is getting married in six months and we didn't wanted to steal their thunder).

So I am a bit more introverted and a homebody type where she is much more extroverted, loves meeting new people, having drinks, smoke cigs and staying up late. A year into our relationship we had an agreement and understanding that I will go to events that interest me and whenever she feels its important I attend and she could hang out with whoever, stay up late and party with friends without me getting jealous and constricting. I thought this worked pretty flawlessly as she made me more socially outgoing and I made her more relaxed and grounded.

The thing is that sometimes she has a very flirtatious way communicating with other man. I can't put my finger on it but I heard it at least twice from other folks. I am sure she doesn't mean ill and doesn't plan on seducing anyone but as a guy I can completely see how she can lead guys into thinking she was interested. She says she is not flirty and just genuinely nice and interested in people. I told her that my biggest fear is her being at some random party, having one drink too many, signaling some guy the wrong impressions and either getting raped or "coerced verbally" into something she shouldn't do. She shrugged it off and said nothing like that will ever happened. Well guess what, my friends...

About two weeks ago after we met with another couple (her brother and his spouse) for a dinner and a theater show, one of her best guy friends invited her to a house party at his place. I was pretty worn out and said she should go by herself. She comes back home drunk, at around 6:30 AM the following morning, trying to sneak into the bed. There was no call and text whatsoever. I got upset, told her that as my wife she shouldn't not sleep at our bed together and also needs to text or call if this type of situation rose again. I was upset, we talked about it and smoothed it out. No biggie, happy life continues.

Two weeks pass. During that time everything is completely normal. We are hosting a couple of great friends over, do fun stuff, go to her parents for Christmas, having a blast really.
On a regular afternoon, we had a surprising talk. She says that she is worried about me and her being attracted to other people as our marriage goes. She says that she is flirtatious and is scared of urges. She subtly asks me what I think about open marriages. I was pretty shocked. As it took me by complete surprise. You don't have those type of conversations so soon after you are wed. I don't take it well and tell her that off-course I don't think its a good idea and even an option to consider. Also, she tends to be more jealous of me than the other way around, so that type of arrangement might not even work for her. She apologized bringing it up and said she is in a weird mental state.

I couldn't let it go. I just had a hunch that something like that doesn't appear for no reason. There were must been some kind of trigger or person for those types of thoughts. Worse case scenario I thought she had some kind of silly crush on some one or just having anxiety about the big public ceremony.

My head was spinning and my gut feeling was too strong. I breached her privacy and used her laptop with her Facebook account logged in. Sure enough. There are 11 messages back and forth with this guy I never heard of starting four days after that night (two weeks ago).

In those communications a few things were revealed:
1. It was HER who sought him out four days after the party.
2. They bounced pretty lengthy and elaborate multi paragraph messages just telling each other about their lives, wife was excited for him and appears to be infatuated and clearly interesting in the guy beyond the sex.
3. 5 days after the party, wife: " I am definitely going through a mind trip right now but I would still like to hang out again. And in no way should you feel worried or anything. I hope to see you again soon".
4. The last communication was LITERALLY 2 HOURS BEFORE OUR CONVERSATION. It was from her to him: "lets get together when you're back, much love".

I had a name and a vague sense that something inappropriate had happened. I talk with her about it. I ask if she is sure nothing happened and there wasn't any trigger or person. She said that no, apologized again about bringing the open relationship thing (which now I understand that she wanted to get an approval AFTER the fact, clinging to the tiny chance I would think its a good idea thus clearing her conscience). Did something happened at that party two weeks ago? No. I kept pressing and pressing. Nada. I say: "Someone informed me something inappropriate happened at that party with a guy name "scumbag". Have you met a person named "scumbag" at the party? Yes, she says, he was her best guy friends new room mate. She met him for the first time there and they just had a long talk. I say are you sure? yes. I keep pressing and she adds that he tried to kiss her but she told him she was engaged and they just kept talking. What else? nothing. What else? We also danced. What did you discuss about for hours? About the marriage institute, how its a social construct and how people are just not meant to be monogamous. Do you think its appropriate for a married wife to be keep talking with a guy that tried to kiss her about those types of issues? No she answers. I ask, will you cut all contact with this "scumbag" guy? She says no, he is just a friend and there is no harm. 

I don't know what to think. At this point I hope and assume that she is telling the truth. I feel kinda bad about the snooping around if that was just the case. Guy tries to kiss you, you tell him you are happily engaged, you laugh about the incidents and just have this jolly intellectually stimulating conversation about edgy subjects. Yeah Right. Bad enough but repairable. I am too angry to sleep in our bed and crash on the couch. After a few hours she comes by crying "I want us to stay together". I tell her, enough of this trickle truth, just lay it all out and we can take things from there and start the long way to healing. 

She says they had sex. Mind is blown. She said it was once, at that party, in his room, with a condom. Anything else? No. 
I say, did you communicate with him since that indecent? Yes, she says. Can I see that communication? She says its a bad idea and will just hurt me more. I tell her that like I said before I want the whole truth and just deal with it once. She shows the facebook communication with me.

She says she is devastated, was completely torn the whole two weeks (which the communication doesn't doesn't align with whatsoever, she seems giddy).

Wildcard information:

1. After it all exploded, she says she thinks she has some kind of mental issue regarding seeking external validation and affection from the opposite gender. Her folks went through a hard divorce, her father cheated on her mother. I guess he didn't gave her enough attention and she has this unfulfillable lack. She attended a single SA (Sex and Love anonymous) meeting so far and will pursue that long term (she says).

2. Sex. She only can climax during penetration. It was all good and dandy, yet for the last year, she was not able to climax. She says that she is in a strange mental state and feels she gained a few pounds and feels unattractive. I always flatter her and am super into her sexually. She also doesn't know how to masturbate. Which I think is a solid tool to have, dealing with fantasy urges. I understand now that was a huge red sign and I should have been more proactive and schedule a sex therapy session and try to bring back sex satisfaction to her. She has issues regarding her lady parts, doesn't enjoy oral. Overall with a lower libido than myself.

3. Apparently she cheated on one of her ex boyfriends as well. It was different she says. He was really bad and into drugs and she cheated on him twice (I guess to get out? Who knows).

What happened in the next four days:
1. I instantly went to some friends out of town for a few days to clear my head and re-evaluate life.
2. I wrote a "strongly worded letter" replying this guy over face book. She was sitting near me while this happened.
3. We told everyone about this incident. I called both her parents and we notified our close social circle.
4. She has seen a counselor and will schedule a weekly visit.
5. She has attended a single session of both AA and SA (sex and love addicts).
6. She wants to do whatever needs to be done, seeing shrinks, couple counselor therapy, anything. 
7. I've been torn apart about what should be my next move. As the situation is extremely dire, I feel disgusted and betrayed and angry. Yet, she is willing to do anything to repair this.

Reasons to work it out:
I still love her very much. I know she is sorry. She is an incredible match for me and we both make each other better people. I fear I might not find some one like that again.
She is ready to make extraordinary efforts to try to make it work.
This is the only time she have done anything like that(this is according to her, which I take with a grain of salt) 

Reasons to bail out:

I don't trust her that this is the whole truth. If I wouldn't probe and snoop I wouldn't ever get to know anything or be suspicious. It could been that fourth guy this is happening with.
Very likely she would meet that guy again if not exposed and have sex with him again.
When confronted initially she said she still wanted to keep in touch with the guy (after lying and saying that he just tried to kiss her and than they just talked).

This guy appeared in this big party we mutually held with dozens of friends. She didn't tell him to leave. She didn't thought it was completely morally bankrupt allowing the guy who ****ed my wife to interact with her unsuspecting husband and his friends. Some of my friends actually got to talk with him and never suspected a thing. Later that evening she used my vehicle to drop him at his home after the party (he apparently has a DUI and can't drive) they kissed that time. (not clear if in car or in his room).

I feel like we still are young and don't have any assets nor children to make a clean cut harder. We can cut our loses now. before any further serious commitments, and embark onto new relationships on our own without having this huge black cloud always in the air and on our thoughts.

I was surprised to hear her voluntary attending the SA program. Is she a sex addict/love addict? She wasn't a sex addict with me whatsoever...  Do I want to enter in to years of therapy and drama when I can just find some one that hasn't cheated on me and start a fresh.

If she does that type of thing when we are freshly wed, with no problems whatsoever, with enough money, jobs we enjoy and nothing negative really, what will happen in a decade from now when the novelty of our marriage will end, with kids and ordinary life pressures and money woes will come. What then? If she did it during the fresh and good times she will feel ten times more compelled to repeat the offense when things get tough.

She said she was torn and guilt ridden the whole two weeks, the messaging between them show a completely and utterly different picture. " I am definitely going through a mind trip right now but I would still like to hang out again. And in no way should you feel worried or anything. I hope to see you again soon". :lol:
Why she is not admitting to the truth despite the evidence?

I feel if I do forgive her, its just not going to be the same. I will always have this trump card and will bring it during arguments and feel morally superior at all times. Basically: There are very few things I can do to you that will match to this really bad thing you already did to me. I feel it will be just a suspicion saturated relationship. Where my complete and utter trust will never be the same. Where I question/not allow her going out without me any more. Where I become increasingly controlling and paranoid. That will not work. 

She still doesn't really fully acknowledge the facebook messages and when discussing what happened to people and makes it look like a one night stand where I see it as short lived affair that was ended prematurely due to exposure. 

Clearly a more emotional adultery and not just physical.

I would like to hear if any of you had anything similar happening to them and how did you cope. Success and failure stories are both equally encouraged.

Would also appreciate general words of advice about what are the chances she is telling the entire truth and any other input.

Thanks for reading!


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## Plan 9 from OS

She is not worth it. Do you want another clue for why it isn't worth it? Her best friend is a guy, and I would bet that the majority of her friends (if not all of them) are guys. You do not deserve to be with a woman that would screw another guy after 4 months of marriage. In reality, this may be for the best because you will be able to find someone more compatible with you. I would bet money that your wife cheated on you while she was your fiance and before you ever proposed to her. If she believes she has an addiction to men that needs to be treated, then it's obvious that she's done this way more than you know. 

GET OUT NOW!


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## Shaggy

Have her take a polygraph to see if this was the only guy. The easy way she cheated and had no guilt over having him at your home for a party says to me this isn't her first time cheating on you. Just the first one you caught.


A wife should not be going alone to parties drinking. No ever. You go together or neither of you goes. This goes double for her.

I don't buy her being low drive. I think she's low drive with you, but she is putting effort into other men.

If she was low drive, then why go to SA? Doesn't make sense.

I think you are still being played.


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## Shaggy

Btw, keep in mind she couldn't make it 120 days without cheating.

Think about that and file.


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## EleGirl

I wonder about her going to SA meeting with this one instance. It sounds like she thinks she has a bigger problem. Is there more, with other guys, that she is not telling you?

I agree with cutting your losses. Cheating this early in a relationship is a very bad sign.


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## CH

Annullment.


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## life101

My STBXW started going out with POSOM even before our marriage was six months old. This after I forgave (rugswept) her previous two transgressions. Now the only thing she is going to get from me is the end of my boot.

No more being Mr. Nice Guy (doormat). Grow a pair and leave her. She has lots of problem and it is not your job to fix her anymore. She has fired you herself.


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## warlock07

> I don't trust her that this is the whole truth. If I wouldn't probe and snoop I wouldn't ever get to know anything or be suspicious. It could been that fourth guy this is happening with.
> Very likely she would meet that guy again if not exposed and have sex with him again.
> When confronted initially she said she still wanted to keep in touch with the guy (after lying and saying that he just tried to kiss her and than they just talked).
> 
> This guy appeared in this big party we mutually held with dozens of friends. She didn't tell him to leave. She didn't thought it was completely morally bankrupt allowing the guy who ****ed my wife to interact with her unsuspecting husband and his friends. Some of my friends actually got to talk with him and never suspected a thing. Later that evening she used my vehicle to drop him at his home after the party (he apparently has a DUI and can't drive) they kissed that time. (not clear if in car or in his room).


read this again and again...You have a very balanced perspective. 4 months is way too early to cheat in the marriage. get a divorce and pursue a relationship with her after the divorce if she is willing to make genuine changes.

And to think she wanted to bring up open relationship talk after this also re-emphasizes the lack of respect for you in general. Maybe she thinks you are not a pick or that she can do better than you. That is very dangerous in the long run.


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## committedwife

Hurts said:


> Thanks for reading!


So. You want straight advice? Dump this chick. She's not marriage material. I'm sorry.  But you've only got so much time on this earth, and you don't need to waste time on this woman.


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## warlock07

You might also have to accept that it was more than once during this time if you plan to reconcile.


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## warlock07

> 3. 5 days after the party, wife: " I am definitely going through a mind trip right now but I would still like to hang out again. And in no way should you feel worried or anything. I hope to see you again soon".


It is fantastic to see how accommodating WS can be towards their OM and their feelings while ignoring common decency..


If she does that type of thing when we are freshly wed, with no problems whatsoever, with enough money, jobs we enjoy and nothing negative really, what will happen in a decade from now when the novelty of our marriage will end, with kids and ordinary life pressures and money woes will come. What then? If she did it during the fresh and good times she will feel ten times more compelled to repeat the offense when things get tough.


You are being wise beyond your years... This is a very frequent reason in most of the threads on here ..along with mid life crisis.


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## BjornFree

warlock07 said:


> You might also have to accept that it was more than once during this time if you plan to reconcile.


I really don't think it would be wise to reconcile with this woman. He's just denying better women the chance to have a fruitful relationship with him if he takes her back.


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## Machiavelli

I read it all, man. I can tell you this: your wife has a great sex drive, just not with you. You're kind of somewhere between delta and gamma on the Male Socio-Sexual Hierarchy. That's not good. You've also been violating The Sixteen Commandments. Start reading and learning about how women really are instead of how society says they are. 

Your wife has been cheating on you ever since you gave her "permission" by allowing her to go out and party without any tether. You don't see it that way, but a woman would. Get rid of her.

Here's an amusing, but very useful test to measure your Sexual Market Value as women see it.


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## Will_Kane

Hurts said:


> The thing is that sometimes she has a very flirtatious way communicating with other man. I can't put my finger on it but *I heard it at least twice from other folks*. I am sure she doesn't mean ill and doesn't plan on seducing anyone but as a guy I can completely see how she can lead guys into thinking she was interested. She says she is not flirty and just genuinely nice and interested in people.


Do you think those people were, in a subtle way, trying to let you know that something funny was going on?


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## RWB

Seriously...

You wrote a ton... She is cheating months into your marriage. You don't need to say anymore. What do you expect in the future? There is nothing to save. 

Lawyer Up Now! Divorce! You will have learned a huge lesson! You have been given the window to the future and (un-like many of us) have time to do something positive about it. Divorce NOW!


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## NewM

Easy divorce


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## Will_Kane

Machiavelli said:


> I read it all, man. I can tell you this: *your wife has a great sex drive, just not with you*. You're kind of somewhere between delta and gamma on the Male Socio-Sexual Hierarchy. That's not good. You've also been violating The Sixteen Commandments. Start reading and learning about how women really are instead of how society says they are.
> 
> *Your wife has been cheating on you ever since you gave her "permission" by allowing her to go out and party without any tether. *You don't see it that way, but a woman would. Get rid of her.
> 
> Here's an amusing, but very useful test to measure your Sexual Market Value as women see it.


Who really knows what your screwy wife has been up to.

You post that "_*She says she is not flirty *and just genuinely nice and interested in people_."

Then you post that _"*She says that she is flirtatious *and is scared of urges. She subtly asks me what I think about open marriages."_

Without saying a word to you, her husband, she is attending Sex Addicts Anonymous meetings. People who have a single one night stand don't do that, even if they are thinking about continuing the affair. People with a low sex drive don't do that.

So, yeah, I think Mach has hit the nail on the head here. On a scale of zero to she's been nailing everything in sight, I would lean toward she's been nailing everything in sight.

She wants to be with you, mentally, you are the right logical choice, she just doesn't feel it in her loins.

She waited four days for the other man to contact her. After four days, she got sick of waiting so she contacted him.

How much you want to bet that her "best guy friend" also knew what went on?

If you decide to go forward with the marriage, then she's got to dump that whole group, including "best guy friend."

I hope you learn a lesson from this. You cannot continue to party like you are single after you are married. If that's the lifestyle you want, just stay single. You made a deal with the devil by agreeing or even encouraging your wife to go out to pickup parties and pickup bars without you. Doesn't excuse her cheating, but it was a stupid idea. You have no desire for that because you are happy with your wife and desire no one else. If she is going to go to such places, it must be WITH you. Otherwise, she should be going out only to places where alcohol and picking up women are NOT primary functions. In her case, if you stay married, she basically has to go out only with you.

It does not bode well for you that you are already married and she has never told you she is a sex addict. Bodes even less well that she would have to TELL you that rather than SHOW you.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## keko

Why is this even a question? The answer is so obvious.

If she can't keep her skirt down during the honeymoon phase guess what she's going to do when there are couple of kids, stress of adult life, life expenses and general boredom with the marriage? She'll fvck the whole town and then some.

Find the nearest attorney and get an annulment before she gets into your brain and convinces you to forgive her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cantthinkstraight

Don't you know that you deserve better than this?

Cut your ties and move on, life is too short.


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## Hurts

Thank you so much for all the replies so far.
Keep em coming. Tough love or not, I need to hear it.

Just to be clear on two points:

The party we held together wasn't at our house but in a space she have access to due to work. Doesn't make it less worse, but at least from what I know they never been at our house together.

The SA stands for Sex and Love. I guess its also for people that are addicted to constant fresh courtships, and never ending stream of romantic novelty. Knowing her sexually, it would be very hard for me to believe she is addicted to sex as it. I assume she went there to try to solve her daddy issues and her unhealthy appetite for constant external validation and affection from the opposite sex.


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## C-man

On the positive side, you had information which you didn't let on and you gave her an opportunity to be truthful. It took a while, but she confirmed what you already knew, she didn't try to lie about the FB, for example. And she's in therapy for a problem she recognizes. So maybe there's a little bit of hope?

But there are so many negatives. 4 months after getting married - that is really a time when you should both be humping each other at every opportunity and she's out partying without you? That's just wrong.

Love's a weird thing though. Really fcks with your decision making. Look at me - wife of almost 25 years cheated starting 4 years ago and lied about it, yet I still have feelings for her 3 months after separating even though she's giving me no reasons to even like her. In a way, I kind of envy you that you have so little invested in your marriage. I know that sounds harsh, but look on the bright side. 1 year of dating and 4 months of marriage. That's a pretty short relationship in the grand scheme of things. And you're in your twenties - so you can just write this off to experience and choose better the next time. You can still have a long and rewarding relationship, start a family and have a life-long partner beside you.

Whatever you do, just remember this had NOTHING to do with any flaw in you - it was your wife's problem.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Hurts

Cedarman said:


> On the positive side, you had information which you didn't let on and you gave her an opportunity to be truthful. It took a while, but she confirmed what you already knew, she didn't try to lie about the FB, for example. And she's in therapy for a problem she recognizes. So maybe there's a little bit of hope?
> 
> But there are so many negatives. 4 months after getting married - that is really a time when you should both be humping each other at every opportunity and she's out partying without you? That's just wrong.
> 
> Love's a weird thing though. Really fcks with your decision making. Look at me - wife of almost 25 years cheated starting 4 years ago and lied about it, yet I still have feelings for her 3 months after separating even though she's giving me no reasons to even like her. In a way, I kind of envy you that you have so little invested in your marriage. I know that sounds harsh, but look on the bright side. 1 year of dating and 4 months of marriage. That's a pretty short relationship in the grand scheme of things. And you're in your twenties - so you can just write this off to experience and choose better the next time. You can still have a long and rewarding relationship, start a family and have a life-long partner beside you.
> 
> Whatever you do, just remember this had NOTHING to do with any flaw in you - it was your wife's problem.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide.


You are completely right. Love totally ****s with your judgment.
If my friend had his wife cheat on him after 4 months I know what would be my advice, yet when it comes to my own affairs it seems much more convoluted. You think that this is a special snowflake case.

"1 year of dating and 4 months of marriage. " We were actually dating for about 3 years before we got married. So have almost 3 and half years together which is definitely not your 25 years but still is a good chunk of time getting attached to someone.


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## moxy

Take her back so easily and you're saying that what she did was no big deal. I don't think you have the whole truth. You two are married, but she told the other guy that she was just engaged....I think that she is not ready to be married, maybe is too immature and has done kind of need for attention from other men. Until she addresses this in therapy (among other things), she's not marriage-ready. Get an annulment or divorce. If you still want her, date her, watch her carefully to see how long she goes before cheating again and whether or not therapy is helping, and consider marriage then. This is not a good way to start a marriage. If you don't get a divorce, at least insist on IC for her and MC for you both.


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## itom72

Hurts said:


> Knowing her sexually, it would be very hard for me to believe she is addicted to sex as it.


Understand this at the outset: I'm not looking to be a p***k, just telling you the way things are.

You do NOT know your wife sexually. You may think you do, but you don't.

Her sex drive is off the charts... *just not with you.*

Pay attention to what others here are saying along these lines. They know what they're writing about.

Let me give you an example of what I mean. Last year, I worked alongside a woman who was often just a little too damn friendly for her good, or anyone else's good for that matter. The "love of her life" was a ship's captain who was gone nine months out of the year, giving her plenty of opportunity to stray. I saw enough out of her, based on my relatively limited contact with her, to know that she was all too willing to hike her skirt up at a moment's notice for any man to whom she took a fancy. Hell, she made a pass at me at one point; I declined, not because I'm a paragon of virtue, but because I don't s**t where I eat. Plus, like I said, I knew how flirtatious she was with men in general, so it's not as if I felt particularly flattered.

Your wife sounds like the same kind of woman. Cut bait now, learn from this experience - and for goodness' sake, from now on, only be with women who want to f**k you as badly, _if not more badly_, then you want to f**k them. (BTW, this is one of those societal myths you must discard for your own good. If a woman really wants you, she'll initiate early and often, and will be a tigress in bed - this is the opposite of what most men are led to believe.)


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## C-man

Hurts said:


> "1 year of dating and 4 months of marriage. " We were actually dating for about 3 years before we got married. So have almost 3 and half years together which is definitely not your 25 years but still is a good chunk of time getting attached to someone.


Sorry - for some reason I had the impression that it was a shorter relationship. So no question that 3.5 years is a bigger percentage of your life. But you're still young enough that you'll look back on this as a mere blip in your history.

I like that you realize what you would advise a friend in the same situation. Just try to separate your feelings of love vs your idealized image of your wife and your marriage. Make sure you're not confusing the two. That's a tough thing to do, I know I can't fully do that yet myself - but it's a necessary step towards making a clear-headed decision.


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## warlock07

divorce is a no brainer now...you can marry again if both of you think it is worth it. (especially her)

In some sense, she seems to regret the secret(?) marriage. Why did you get married in a hurry? Looks like she is not ready for fidelity or a major commitment like a marriage.




> Knowing her sexually, it would be very hard for me to believe she is addicted to sex as it.


Could it be she is an addict, just not with you ? Was she recommended to join the SA ? Something's off here.


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## Will_Kane

Hurts said:


> You are completely right. Love totally ****s with your judgment.
> If my friend had his wife cheat on him after 4 months I know what would be my advice, yet when it comes to my own affairs it seems much more convoluted. You think that this is a special snowflake case.
> 
> "1 year of dating and 4 months of marriage. " We were actually dating for about 3 years before we got married. So have almost 3 and half years together which is definitely not your 25 years but still is a good chunk of time getting attached to someone.
> 
> *When confronted initially she said she still wanted to keep in touch with the guy (after lying and saying that he just tried to kiss her and than they just talked).*
> 
> This guy appeared in this big party we mutually held with dozens of friends. *She didn't tell him to leave. She didn't thought it was completely morally bankrupt allowing the guy who ****ed my wife to interact with her unsuspecting husband and his friends.* Some of my friends actually got to talk with him and never suspected a thing. *Later that evening she used my vehicle to drop him at his home after the party (he apparently has a DUI and can't drive) they kissed that time. (not clear if in car or in his room).*


Why isn't it clear where they "kissed" the second time they were together? Do you really believe that they only "kissed" the second time? After being at a crowded party together the first time and still finding a way to be alone to have sex, the second time when they actually were all alone, all they did was "kiss"? This story stinks to high heaven.

Anyway, the lying still is going on, I suspect. You have a lot of evidence that she is not that into you. Women who are in love with you don't act this way with other guys. They may have desires, they may like validation, but they don't actually screw the guy. They are able to control their desires and they don't need to screw the guy to be validated. EVEN WOMEN WITH "DADDY" ISSUES.

Then you posted that she is telling everyone it was a "one night stand" like that makes it all so understandable. Probably also tells them she was drunk, too. "I was drunk and it only was a one-night stand." NO, actually, you screwed the guy at the party, then contacted him a bunch of times to let him know you'd still like to screw some more, then you actually invited him to meet your husband and then drove him home to screw him again. Let her tell the truth if she's going to confess her affair. IF you decide to stay with her, make sure she sets the record straight with everyone about the "one night" stand.


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## cledus_snow

4 months in, and already cheated on you?! 

i think you know what you _should _do.


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## See_Listen_Love

Hurts said:


> Thank you so much for all the replies so far.
> Keep em coming. Tough love or not, I need to hear it.
> 
> Just to be clear on two points:
> 
> The party we held together wasn't at our house but in a space she have access to due to work. Doesn't make it less worse, but at least from what I know they never been at our house together.
> 
> The SA stands for Sex and Love. I guess its also for people that are addicted to constant fresh courtships, and never ending stream of romantic novelty. *Knowing her sexually, it would be very hard for me to believe she is addicted to sex as it.* I assume she went there to try to solve her daddy issues and her unhealthy appetite for constant external validation and affection from the opposite sex.


You have noticed the elements but are still in the cuckold Fog: 

*The addiction is*

"to try to solve her daddy issues and her unhealthy appetite for constant external validation and affection from the opposite sex"

*by*

*Getting* attention, affection and external validation 

*through*

*Giving* sex to others (who knows how long, how often and to how many people)



_(Sex with you has no function in this addiction)_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Four months into marriage she cheated that is during your honey moon period, for external validation. After 5 or 10 yrs how much validation she might be needing to be with you?
sex addict but not known to you, while her sex drive was low as per your knowledge. You didnt had a clue about this. That means she hide many things from you and shown you a fake face to be with you. Now you know the real her. Do you? I dont think so.

She was with him alone after the party but they only kissed.REALLY? What made them to stop at kissing? love for you?, Guilt? Any way these two are not going to stop them at a kiss. When she was in deep desire to be with him for another round of sex. What explanation she did gave you?

Do you believe that she remained faithful to you while she was engaged to you?

Was your friends giving you some indirect signals about her while they told you she is too much flirtatious?

Ask her for a polygraph, see her reaction. If she agrees dont back off do that.
But do you really wanted to be with her for rest of your life as a paranoid husband? She may leave her guy friends for salvaging her marriage for a period but will she do that for ever? 

Your best bet is to run to the mountains, get your marriage annulled. Ask her to get help for her problems, she seems too broken. If she get the professional help she needed then date her again.


----------



## jfv

Cut your losses and rethink your boundaries. If you are the type of guy that is scared of bieng called insecure or controlling, this will probably happen again no matter who it is... But get rid of this one.


----------



## JCD

The problem is her friends. The 'best guy friend' was IN THE APARTMENT with his roommate when she did the Walk Of Shame out to try and hop into your bed fresh from her lover.

So no, none of those people are your friends.

You are hung up on two things. 

One: you think that you can't find a hotter woman. This may be true. Is her beauty going to blind you to her flaws as she comes home at 6:30, stinking of her lovers? Is her beauty going to last forever? Are the other ways she is treating you commenserate with 'being a good wife' or is it just that she is pretty and interesting (and by interesting, I mean she's hot and puts out in creative ways...why you think she is so welcome in so many social circles? Not that she's putting out sex, but she's certainly putting out the vibes)

The Second thing is as a wallflower, you WANT someone to drag you out of your shell and being on the arm of Eyecandy Roundheels, you feel that you gain some of her cachet. Well...guess what? She still gets the invites without you so you are riding on her coattails. In truth, you are a necessary evil to her presence...and not totally a 'necessary' evil as she's proven.

She has as much said that she thinks she's married beneath her socially.

BUT...you don't need to stay there. You have your own validation issues to get over. You need to learn to be more extroverted on your own without having Eyecandy Roundheels as your 'ticket'.

Buy your own ticket. Maybe it won't be a ticket to 'the cool crowd' who always has room for another hot flirty woman, but certainly to a crowd which you feel comfortable.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Hurts,

She sounds like my STBXW. Only we were married 14 years. She's (my STBXW) a serial cheater.

This is the type of woman who is physically attractive and very charming. However, her mind is broken. She has a personality disorder. In her mind, attention=love. In her mind, the "high" of a new relationship=love. 

She will constantly seek validation and attention from men, and maybe women too. 

If you stay with her, be prepared for much heartache. She will say that she "cares" about you, but eff other guys. She has a poor ability to empathize, and a fantastic ability to compartmentalize. She is a liar extraordinaire, and has no problem living a double life.

Do some research on Narcissistic and Histrionic personality disorders. That's what you married.

You can't fix her. Sorry.


----------



## Hurts

jfv said:


> Cut your losses and rethink your boundaries. If you are the type of guy that is scared of bieng called insecure or controlling, this will probably happen again no matter who it is... But get rid of this one.


I would really like someone to elaborate this point. The thing is, I used to be quite jealous when I was younger and more immature. I did a lot of thinking. The whole "if she's gonna cheat its going to happen regardless of your jealousy, which in fact could only damage the relationship" made a lot of sense. With this relationship I thought I finally got over it. For years I was so happy that it appeared to work flawlessly. Guess I was wrong. She is the person I trusted the most and the person who betrayed that trust the most as well.

How do you completely trust a spouse yet still have restrictions and suspicion?
How should I act with future relationships?


----------



## warlock07

Hurts, before that, don't you think joining SA for an affair is odd ? You might have to investigate about this a bit. 

She noticed she has this problem. How often did she stay overnight at friends places ?


----------



## Hurts

ThreeStrikes said:


> Hurts,
> 
> She sounds like my STBXW. Only we were married 14 years. She's (my STBXW) a serial cheater.
> 
> This is the type of woman who is physically attractive and very charming. However, her mind is broken. She has a personality disorder. In her mind, attention=love. In her mind, the "high" of a new relationship=love.
> 
> She will constantly seek validation and attention from men, and maybe women too.
> 
> If you stay with her, be prepared for much heartache. She will say that she "cares" about you, but eff other guys. She has a poor ability to empathize, and a fantastic ability to compartmentalize. She is a liar extraordinaire, and has no problem living a double life.
> 
> Do some research on Narcissistic and Histrionic personality disorders. That's what you married.
> 
> You can't fix her. Sorry.


"fantastic ability to compartmentalize." - You might have hit the nail on the head here. A good friend of mine basically said exactly that. I am still a bit confused about the full meaning behind this type of behavior.

Thank you for replying. I don't know your situation and how your STBXW coping with all those issues.

The thing is, upon discovery, she totally acknowledged that she had a problem and is willing to go to a bunch of counseling to get to the bottom of it. The AA and SA she will attend for a good while. Once again it could be a huge charade and she might be intact a hopeless case but she definitely realized that a ton of work (mainly on her) needs to be done before she will feel normal. Thoughts?


----------



## bfree

Hurts said:


> I would really like someone to elaborate this point. The thing is, I used to be quite jealous when I was younger and more immature. I did a lot of thinking. The whole "if she's gonna cheat its going to happen regardless of your jealousy, which in fact could only damage the relationship" made a lot of sense. With this relationship I thought I finally got over it. For years I was so happy that it appeared to work flawlessly. Guess I was wrong. She is the person I trusted the most and the person who betrayed that trust the most as well.
> 
> How do you completely trust a spouse yet still have restrictions and suspicion?
> How should I act with future relationships?


There is a difference between jealousy and having appropriate marital boundaries. There is a difference between trying to control somone and appropriate mate guarding. Here's a question for you. Your wife has lots of male friends. Why does that seem to be acceptable to you? You allowed her to go to a party where there would be lots of men and drinking. Why would you allow that? Do you not realize that when you get married the patterns and behavior that accompany the single life must end? I understand that you are still very young but you really need to familiarize yourself with basic human nature.


----------



## Hurts

Also,

I know it might appear I am way to lenient about this whole thing, after being cuckolded like that but I'm not.

I am actually good looking and have my **** together. I also feel I am quite confident with women, running my own business, in good physical shape and etc. I just think it's juvenile and kinda pointless to constantly go out drinking and having a bunch of shallow conversations and much more prefer having a smaller circle of closer friends with whom I have a real connection.

She is attractive but nothing to write home about. The sex was mediocre at best. That was not the main component of my appeal to her. 

Her character was what reeled me in. She appeared fundamentally good. :scratchhead:
Just this sweetest person, who is a "social butterfly" :rofl:
I felt very confident having children with her and having a great multi decade marriage with her. Our values and goals in life are very similar.

The reason I am even asking what to do is that I know that I am completely heartbroken and foggy right now, and just want to hear all the sides to everything before I make any decisions that will have a major affect of both of our lives. 

No cases or stories of such a dire betrayal done in such a short time after a wedding that was worked on and led to decades of happy and trusting and genuinely anxiety and fear free relationship?

Am I completely disillusioning myself thinking that if she puts a ton of work into this, she could fundamentally change and I could completely forgive her and trust her again (again, I myself doubt this to be the case)?


----------



## bfree

Hurts said:


> "fantastic ability to compartmentalize." - You might have hit the nail on the head here. A good friend of mine basically said exactly that. I am still a bit confused about the full meaning behind this type of behavior.
> 
> Thank you for replying. I don't know your situation and how your STBXW coping with all those issues.
> 
> The thing is, upon discovery, she totally acknowledged that she had a problem and is willing to go to a bunch of counseling to get to the bottom of it. The AA and SA she will attend for a good while. Once again it could be a huge charade and she might be intact a hopeless case but she definitely realized that a ton of work (mainly on her) needs to be done before she will feel normal. Thoughts?


Do you really wants to invest years of your life with a woman that is trying to deal with these types of issues? Don't you want to be with a woman that is mentally healthy and ready to be in a long term relationship? You look at your relationship as having invested all those years. You think that if you split up with her now all those years are wasted. That's the wrong way to look at it. Those years aren't wasted. You've gained a lot of experience and can now apply that to future relationships. You can also use this situation to look into ways to make future relationships better. Start learning about men and women and how they fit together. And by this I'm not talking about the Cosmo Magazine version of men/women. I'm talking about a realistic and biological viewpoint of what women really want in a man and what a man should expect and want from women. So don't look like these years are all a waste. But if you stay with her then all the years to come will be wasted.


----------



## bfree

Hurts said:


> Also,
> 
> I know it might appear I am way to lenient about this whole thing, after being cuckolded like that but I'm not.
> 
> I am actually good looking and have my **** together. I also feel I am quite confident with women, running my own business, in good physical shape and etc. I just think it's juvenile and kinda pointless to constantly go out drinking and having a bunch of shallow conversations and much more prefer having a smaller circle of closer friends with whom I have a real connection.
> 
> She is attractive but nothing to write home about. The sex was mediocre at best. That was not the main component of my appeal to her.
> 
> Her character was what reeled me in. She appeared fundamentally good. :scratchhead:
> Just this sweetest person, who is a "social butterfly" :rofl:
> I felt very confident having children with her and having a great multi decade marriage with her. Our values and goals in life are very similar.
> 
> The reason I am even asking what to do is that I know that I am completely heartbroken and foggy right now, and just want to hear all the sides to everything before I make any decisions that will have a major affect of both of our lives.
> 
> No cases or stories of such a dire betrayal done in such a short time after a wedding that was worked on and led to decades of happy and trusting and genuinely anxiety and fear free relationship?
> 
> Am I completely disillusioning myself thinking that if she puts a ton of work into this, she could fundamentally change and I could completely forgive her and trust her again (again, I myself doubt this to be the case)?


Short answer. No if you stay with her you will never trust her again. Your marriage will slowly wither and die as she grows resentful of your mistrust, as justified as it is. And yes you are dillusional if you think staying with her is a good idea. You said you fell in love with her because of her personality. Now you want to stay with her while she tries to completely change that personality? First of all I don't believe she will change. Second, if she does manage to change you won't love the new person she becomes.


----------



## C-man

ThreeStrikes said:


> Hurts,
> 
> She sounds like my STBXW. Only we were married 14 years. She's (my STBXW) a serial cheater.
> 
> This is the type of woman who is physically attractive and very charming. However, her mind is broken. She has a personality disorder. In her mind, attention=love. In her mind, the "high" of a new relationship=love.
> 
> She will constantly seek validation and attention from men, and maybe women too.
> 
> If you stay with her, be prepared for much heartache. She will say that she "cares" about you, but eff other guys. She has a poor ability to empathize, and a fantastic ability to compartmentalize. She is a liar extraordinaire, and has no problem living a double life.
> 
> Do some research on Narcissistic and Histrionic personality disorders. That's what you married.
> 
> You can't fix her. Sorry.


Great post. Lack of ability to empathize and fantastic ability to compartmentalize. This is exactly my STBXW. Hurts - if your wife is like this just know that these characteristics are a recipe for a lot of pain.

No ability to empathize means a person cannot fathom the hurt they are causing. They have a "what's the big deal, get over it" mentality.

Ability to compartmentalize gives a person an ability to cheat and lie but think to themselves "I cheated and lied BECAUSE of some external factor". It allows them to do the most horrible things and still sleep at night. At the height of our troubles, when my STBXW had just confessed to her EA (because I confronted with evidence) I would be in bed unable to sleep at 4 am. Meanwhile, my wife would be in a deep sleep, beside me. It actually pissed me off. And it turns out that she was lying, all the while - allowing me to think it had been "just" been an EA when it had morphed into a PA.

If your wife is like this, cut your losses.


----------



## Hurts

bfree said:


> There is a difference between jealousy and having appropriate marital boundaries. There is a difference between trying to control somone and appropriate mate guarding. Here's a question for you. Your wife has lots of male friends. Why does that seem to be acceptable to you? You allowed her to go to a party where there would be lots of men and drinking. Why would you allow that? Do you not realize that when you get married the patterns and behavior that accompany the single life must end? I understand that you are still very young but you really need to familiarize yourself with basic human nature.


Thank you so much for your response.
I always assumed that trust means UTTER AND COMPLETE trust. If you %96 trust your wife but not around men by herself, that's not a complete trust. 

She totally does have a ton of male friends and I just never thought anything about it. I am now slowly realizing that like you said: 

"There is a difference between jealousy and having appropriate marital boundaries. There is a difference between trying to control somone and appropriate mate guarding." 

I agree with you completely. Thank you.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Hurts said:


> Her character was what reeled me in. She appeared fundamentally good. :scratchhead:
> Just this sweetest person, who is a "social butterfly" :rofl:
> I felt very confident having children with her and having a great multi decade marriage with her. Our values and goals in life are very similar.


Same with my STBXW. On the surface, everything looked ideal. She was raised in a well-to-do household with a strong Christian backround. Her father was/is a preacher! She was attractive, charming, outgoing, motivated, etc. Who would have imagined what was lying beneath the surface.:scratchhead:

You have to decide what you are willing to put up with. If you want to give your WW the benefit of the doubt with counselling, etc...that's up to you.

Realize that you will never really trust her again. You will have triggers and mind movies. It's not fun.

Also realize that she hasn't told you the entire story. It's likely she's been banging other guys throughout your entire relationship. Polygraph time.

Somebody said something on another thread: "Without trust, a marriage is a sham". Humpty Dumpy can't be put back together.

Also realize that there are other women out there who could have similar values/morals/goals, but who aren't personality disordered. Why waste any more time with this person?


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Your wife is a serial cheater.

My ex h is also a serial cheater. I left when I had solid proof. Once I left, I was astounded of how many women I was told by the ones who slept with them. Living in a small town, it's easy to find out. I didn't find out prior due to working and paying the bills on top of raising a new baby. 19 years later he still cheats on his wife. She moved in 3 days after I left and allows him to cheat. I was very lucky that I was STD free! I tested for a full year after.

People like your wife will continue to cheat no matter who their with. Either you stay with her and most likely you'll get an unwanted and incurable STD or you can file for divorce. There are women who are faithful and will respect you.


----------



## Hurts

ThreeStrikes said:


> Same with my STBXW. On the surface, everything looked ideal. She was raised in a well-to-do household with a strong Christian backround. Her father was/is a preacher! She was attractive, charming, outgoing, motivated, etc. Who would have imagined what was lying beneath the surface.:scratchhead:
> 
> You have to decide what you are willing to put up with. If you want to give your WW the benefit of the doubt with counselling, etc...that's up to you.
> 
> Realize that you will never really trust her again. You will have triggers and mind movies. It's not fun.
> 
> Also realize that she hasn't told you the entire story. It's likely she's been banging other guys throughout your entire relationship. Polygraph time.
> 
> Somebody said something on another thread: "Without trust, a marriage is a sham". Humpty Dumpy can't be put back together.
> 
> Also realize that there are other women out there who could have similar values/morals/goals, but who aren't personality disordered. Why waste any more time with this person?


"Same with my STBXW. On the surface, everything looked ideal. She was raised in a well-to-do household with a strong Christian backround. Her father was/is a preacher! She was attractive, charming, outgoing, motivated, etc. Who would have imagined what was lying beneath the surface." 
Wow, you pretty much described my wife. That is pretty scary. Her upbringing was definitely well to do, albeit her folks did have an ugly divorce.


----------



## Toffer

I haven't even read all the responses yet but I will say that someone who has a history of cheating before marriage and then again 4 MONTHS into marriage is a serial cheater.

She lied to you numerous times to your face (also told the other man she was engaged, not married), she has endangered your health by exposing you to STDs and is only sorry she got caught.

I am also willing to bet that your agreement with her about "that I will go to events that interest me and whenever she feels its important I attend and she could hang out with whoever, stay up late and party with friends without me getting jealous and constricting" was all HER idea. She set you up so she could play the field at will. Am I right?

I would look into an annulment ASAP. She has shown you time and time again that she can't be trusted. Let her go so she can fix herself (if she chooses to do so) You could always re-marry down the road but right now you need to get away from her! DO NOT have unprotected sex with her! The last thing you need to do is to get her pregnant becuase then your choices narrow tremendously!

RUN FOREST RUN!


----------



## bfree

Toffer said:


> I haven't even read all the responses yet but I will say that someone who has a history of cheating before marriage and then again $ MONTHS into marriage is a serial cheater.
> 
> She lied to you numerous times to your face (also told the other man she was engaged, not married), she has endangered your health by exposing you to STDs and is only sorry she got caught.
> 
> I am also willing to bet that your agreement with her about "that I will go to events that interest me and whenever she feels its important I attend and she could hang out with whoever, stay up late and party with friends without me getting jealous and constricting" was all HER idea. She set you up so she could play the field at will. Am I right?
> 
> I would look into an annulment ASAP. She has shown you time and time again that she can't be trusted. Let her go so she can fix herself (if she chooses to do so) You could always re-marry down the road but right now you need to get away from her! DO NOT have unprotected sex with her! The last thing you need to do is to get her pregnant becuase then your choices narrow tremendously!
> 
> RUN FOREST RUN!


Toffer is right. Let her go and fix herself. After all, she can't really concentrate on fixing herself while trying to heal you at the same time right? If she is really serious she will do it and then you may be able to reconnect in the future. There is another thread on TAM where the wife cheated on her husband. He got a divorce and now three years later they are starting to reconnect. She worked on herself and became a woman of substance but she couldn't have done it without a lot of self exploration. And she couldn't have done it had they stayed together. Let her go and see if she really has the drive to fix her issues or if she's just trying to placate you.


----------



## WyshIknew

bfree said:


> Toffer is right. Let her go and fix herself. After all, she can't really concentrate on fixing herself while trying to heal you at the same time right? If she is really serious she will do it and then you may be able to reconnect in the future. There is another thread on TAM where the wife cheated on her husband. He got a divorce and now three years later they are starting to reconnect. She worked on herself and became a woman of substance but she couldn't have done it without a lot of self exploration. And she couldn't have done it had they stayed together. Let her go and see if she really has the drive to fix her issues or if she's just trying to placate you.


Which thread is that, wouldn't mind reading it?


----------



## bfree

WyshIknew said:


> Which thread is that, wouldn't mind reading it?


Rookie4's thread Could you reconcile. He's also posted a lot about it in the Reconciliation thread.


----------



## JCD

Hurts said:


> Thank you so much for your response.
> I always assumed that trust means UTTER AND COMPLETE trust. If you %96 trust your wife but not around men by herself, that's not a complete trust.
> 
> She totally does have a ton of male friends and I just never thought anything about it. I am now slowly realizing that like you said:
> 
> "There is a difference between jealousy and having appropriate marital boundaries. There is a difference between trying to control somone and appropriate mate guarding."
> 
> I agree with you completely. Thank you.


Even if she was pure as the driven snow (and you realize SHE chased HIM) how can you trust THE OTHER GUYS?

As you supposedly realized, YOU told her what happens if she ran into a guy who didn't take 'NO' for an answer. And yet you still allowed that situation to continue.

But your post has shown something else: you and your wife are incompatible for what you find fulfilling in life. You want coherent, meaningful (boring in her mind) talks. She wants a dozen people dancing attendence on her.

So what you are attempting is a total change in her personality, including what attracted you to her in the first place...maybe. Only you can answer that but it's something to think about.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Hurts, my husband and I do not have friends of the opposite sex. This was discussed and agreed without question or hesitation while engaged. Nor my husband and I flirt with other people, we flirt with each other. I remarried a wonderful and honorable man 5 years after my divorce. He is the nice type guy, I would never in my life take advantage of him, nor would he do the same to me!

Your wife is telling you flat out she has urges for other men. That right there would make me file for divorce. Your wife is telling you that she can't help her cheating ways. It's an addiction, serial cheaters do not ever quit cheating.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Toffer said:


> I haven't even read all the responses yet but I will say that someone who has a history of cheating before marriage and then again 4 MONTHS into marriage is a serial cheater.
> 
> She lied to you numerous times to your face (also told the other man she was engaged, not married), she has *endangered your health by exposing you to STDs and is only sorry she got caugh*t.
> 
> I am also willing to bet that your agreement with her about "that I will go to events that interest me and whenever she feels its important I attend and she could hang out with whoever, stay up late and party with friends without me getting jealous and constricting" *was all HER idea. She set you up so she could play the field at will. Am I right?*
> 
> *I would look into an annulment ASAP. She has shown you time and time again that she can't be trusted. Let her go so she can fix herself *(if she chooses to do so) You could always re-marry down the road but right now you need to get away from her! DO NOT have unprotected sex with her! The last thing you need to do is to get her pregnant becuase then your choices narrow tremendously!
> 
> *RUN FOREST RUN!*



:iagree:


----------



## Chaparral

Hurts said:


> I would really like someone to elaborate this point. The thing is, I used to be quite jealous when I was younger and more immature. I did a lot of thinking. The whole "if she's gonna cheat its going to happen regardless of your jealousy, which in fact could only damage the relationship" made a lot of sense. With this relationship I thought I finally got over it. For years I was so happy that it appeared to work flawlessly. Guess I was wrong. She is the person I trusted the most and the person who betrayed that trust the most as well.
> 
> How do you completely trust a spouse yet still have restrictions and suspicion?
> How should I act with future relationships?


Why do you think you should completely trust anyone? I have been around decades and I can tell you this, trust but verify. Trust nature, trust alcohol, trust men and trust women to do what they do.

It is beyond me, of course I married late and partied through my twenties. The day I would let a GF,SO wife go out to a party/club/GNO is the day after I dumped her. One woman in the last 40 years is the only woman I know of that did the GNo thing, is still with her husband. And trust me having kids doesn't help keep them faithful.

Of course she gave him a ride home..........and then she rode him.


----------



## Chaparral

Hurts said:


> "fantastic ability to compartmentalize." - You might have hit the nail on the head here. A good friend of mine basically said exactly that. I am still a bit confused about the full meaning behind this type of behavior.
> 
> Thank you for replying. I don't know your situation and how your STBXW coping with all those issues.
> 
> The thing is, upon discovery, she totally acknowledged that she had a problem and is willing to go to a bunch of counseling to get to the bottom of it. The AA and SA she will attend for a good while. Once again it could be a huge charade and she might be intact a hopeless case but she definitely realized that a ton of work (mainly on her) needs to be done before she will feel normal. Thoughts?



How long ago did this happen? Has she been out since? Does she expect to go out with out you now?


----------



## Soifon

She jumped on the SA thing quite quickly don't you think? I find that very odd. Where did she find this group and have you been to it or does she just say she's going and out the door she goes? Do you know that is where she is going? I also wonder about groups like that. I feel like for someone who has a sexual addiction of sorts, IC is best. Sitting in a group of people just like you seems like a recipe for disaster. It's like a group of alcoholics going to AA meetings in a bar.

She is full of crocodile tears and I wouldn't believe ANYTHING she is saying right now. I feel pretty strongly that she is placating you because she was caught, she wants you back in your little cage like she had you so she can be free to do what she wants. And Machiavelli is 100% right. The reason she brought up the open relationship is because she thinks she can do whatever she wants and you will sit there and take it. I don't know anyone that would have the balls to come out with that subject with their SO's. It shows a complete lack of respect for you.

IMO, she thinks she is smarter than you are. She thinks she is stronger and more dominant than you are. She thinks you are showing a display of dominance at finding out she cheated but she is confident that if she puts on a show for a bit you will go back to how you were. I guarantee you that after the dust settles if you try to tell her she isn't going out partying alone she will flip sh!t. She will say she has changed and put in all the work and fixed herself and you should forget the past. 

What a messy stressful future. I would cut it off and move on.


----------



## Chaparral

Hurts said:


> Also,
> 
> I know it might appear I am way to lenient about this whole thing, after being cuckolded like that but I'm not.
> 
> I am actually good looking and have my **** together. I also feel I am quite confident with women, running my own business, in good physical shape and etc. I just think it's juvenile and kinda pointless to constantly go out drinking and having a bunch of shallow conversations and much more prefer having a smaller circle of closer friends with whom I have a real connection.
> 
> She is attractive but nothing to write home about. The sex was mediocre at best. That was not the main component of my appeal to her.
> 
> Her character was what reeled me in. She appeared fundamentally good. :scratchhead:
> Just this sweetest person, who is a "social butterfly" :rofl:
> I felt very confident having children with her and having a great multi decade marriage with her. Our values and goals in life are very similar.
> 
> The reason I am even asking what to do is that I know that I am completely heartbroken and foggy right now, and just want to hear all the sides to everything before I make any decisions that will have a major affect of both of our lives.
> 
> No cases or stories of such a dire betrayal done in such a short time after a wedding that was worked on and led to decades of happy and trusting and genuinely anxiety and fear free relationship?
> 
> Am I completely disillusioning myself thinking that if she puts a ton of work into this, she could fundamentally change and I could completely forgive her and trust her again (again, I myself doubt this to be the case)?


The biggest problem is you have no idea what you're dealing with yet. You know she spent the night with him. She is definitely lying about the ride she gave him home.

A polygraph is abolutely necessary if you think you might want to keep her.

Set up a test, make up a list of questions you want to know the answer too. So not tell her about the test until you are on the way to the test site. You may be able to contact the local police to see who they use.

You may also be able to just fake it. Give her the list, tell her you are taking her to a polygraph, tell her she needs to answer all the questions first, then put her in the car and start driving. Tell her if any of her answers are wrong you are going to get an anulment and does she want to change any of her answers.

Usually cheaters fold before the test.

There is a reason God/evolution gave us certain tools, gut feelings and jealousy are two of them. To ignore two of our best tools is foolish. Hopefully, in the futureyou will remember, if you are not there you cannot **** block. Why do you think people like to go to bars/clubs/parties and drink?


----------



## walkonmars

Yeah, a ton of work is needed. But you know what? It's a strong probability that ton of work will involve many, many years. With many false starts, failed attempts, re-tries, and a few more betrayals. 

If you have children during that time you become more committed by default to continuing the "ton of work" and little by little become disenchanted with the effort/results. 

Are you willing to be the martyr? Why?


----------



## Chaparral

The only reason I would consider this being a one time only fling is that she came to you right after and asked for an open marriage. This is the only time this has come up,right? Of cousre she may not consider it cheating if she did something before marriage.

In that case this might be a case of inappropriate habits. Male friends, GNO's, a husband thta has been fed "progressive" ideas about relationships and is afraid of being called controlling.

Why haven't you mentioned what her best friend told you about letting his friend use his house to bang your wife? How many times has he done this? It actually sounds like he may have set this up.

Have you checked to see what text/phone activity was going on around this time?

Her best friend is an enemy to you and your marriage.


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## kruppmart

My STBXW cheated on me 3 months after we married, two weeks after we returned from a trip to Europe with her 3 children (i payed more than $5,000 for it).
Same behavior likes yours. I did not know TAM at this time; nor did I realized that she is a narcissist and sociopath (learned that all within the last 12 months). 
I wanted to work it out and thought I did. Until the next time she cheated; which to my knowledge happened 12 months ago. There might have been more but I have no evidence.

I know, some people here on TAM do not believe in the saying "Once a cheater - Always a cheater", but I do.
My POS cheated on her first husband as well.

Her parents had a bad marriage (her father cheated on her mom for many years, including fathering a child outside the marriage), apparently similar to your wife's childhood.
Search the internet about a narcissist and sociopath. You might finding that the description matches your wife (It did in my case).

Good luck, but without having children, I advice to divorce her. I know you may want to help her and feel guilty by just leaving her. I felt the same back in time (plus considering her 3 children).

You deserve better than her.


----------



## kruppmart

ThreeStrikes said:


> Hurts,
> 
> She sounds like my STBXW. She's (my STBXW) a serial cheater.
> 
> This is the type of woman who is physically attractive and very charming. However, her mind is broken. She has a personality disorder. In her mind, attention=love. In her mind, the "high" of a new relationship=love.
> 
> She will constantly seek validation and attention from men
> 
> 
> Do some research on Narcissistic and Histrionic personality disorders. That's what you married.
> 
> You can't fix her. Sorry.


3S, that is exactly my STBXW. My biggest concern is that she will "give" her disorder to her 14 year old daughter, if not already done.


----------



## walkonmars

Hurts, 
Your user name and circumstances brings to mind a society of men that no longer exists. But as I read more and more on this board, I wonder if a less formal version of the group is regrouping. 

The flagellants were a 14th century order of monks who flogged themselves to ward off the plague. These celibate men took it upon themselves to bear pain in order that others may have peace. 

Think about this.


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## Soifon

I also want to point out that I hear a lot of people list mental conditions, personality disorders etc. These things just give insight into what a person is thinking and why they behave certain ways. It doesn't negate her responsibility for her actions and she was in total control of what she did. Just because she has "daddy" issues doesn't mean that is an excuse and that if she works through that then she will be fine in the future. Our home life and our pasts make up who we are and sometimes counseling can correct bad behaviors but a lot of it is just that, it's who we are. It's not an excuse for her actions. 

I feel like some of what comes across in regards to these topics sounds as though the BS is looking for something to blame that isn't soleely the WS and blame is incorrectly placed and leads to false R.


----------



## Will_Kane

Hurts said:


> Thank you so much for your response.
> I always assumed that trust means UTTER AND COMPLETE trust. If you %96 trust your wife but not around men by herself, that's not a complete trust.
> 
> *She totally does have a ton of male friends *and I just never thought anything about it. I am now slowly realizing that like you said:
> 
> "There is a difference between jealousy and having appropriate marital boundaries. There is a difference between trying to control somone and appropriate mate guarding."
> 
> I agree with you completely. Thank you.


She has a harem. Why do you think she has so many male friends? How many of them would have sex with her if she wanted to? She is flirty with them, they flirt back - this is courting behavior. It's disrespectful to you.

It's one thing to think, "jealousy will do me no good, if she's going to cheat, then she's going to cheat, I'm not going to drive myself worrying about it"; it's another to actually observe her disrespectful flirty behavior with all those guys and do nothing about it. I guess you thought, "well, that's just her personality, but she's not cheating with those guys." In the future, if you meet a woman who has a lot of male friends who she flirts with, don't get involved with that woman. The combination of "a lot of opposite sex friends" and "flirts with them" ALWAYS is a bad combination. NO EXCEPTIONS to this rule.

It is not that you shouldn't have utter and complete trust, it's that you have to pay attention to the "red flags." Her desire to maintain friendships with so many other men, to go out without you, to flirt with other guys, and allow them to flirt with her, so much so that at least two different people have talked to you about it in the past, are huge red flags. These are things that should have prevented you from ever giving her your "utter and complete" trust.

"Utter and complete trust" is something that has to be earned over time based on behavior, and from what you've posted, her behavior was never worthy of it. When you met her for the very first time, you had the attitude of "jealousy will do me no good, if she's going to cheat, then she's going to cheat, I'm not going to drive myself worrying about it." Of course, if you had caught her cheating, you would have dumped her. As time went on, and you didn't catch her cheating, somehow you came to the point where you felt you had "utter and complete trust." How did that happen?


----------



## Will_Kane

Hurts said:


> I would really like someone to elaborate this point. The thing is, I used to be quite jealous when I was younger and more immature. I did a lot of thinking. The whole *"if she's gonna cheat its going to happen regardless of your jealousy*, which in fact could only damage the relationship" made a lot of sense. With this relationship I thought I finally got over it. For years I was so happy that it appeared to work flawlessly. Guess I was wrong. She is the person I trusted the most and the person who betrayed that trust the most as well.
> 
> How do you completely trust a spouse yet still have restrictions and suspicion?
> How should I act with future relationships?


You are making a HUGE mistake in the way you look at this.

The type of jealousy that destroys relationships is UNFOUNDED jealousy. For example, the UPS guy rings the doorbell, hands my wife a package, has her sign for it and leaves. I see a package and I start asking her all about what the UPS guy said, did they flirt, did he try to have sex with her. That is unfounded jealousy.

If you have a reason for the jealousy, for example, inappropriate behavior, like your wife is openly flirting with other men, then you have to pay attention to it and take action on it. People associate "jealousy" with weak, insecure behavior - "what did he say to you?," "why are you coming home so late,?". The way you should react when you are confronted with inappropriate behavior like that is to tell the other person, "that behavior is unacceptable to me and I will not tolerate it; I am not OK with it."


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## Will_Kane

chapparal said:


> The biggest problem is you have no idea what you're dealing with yet. You know she spent the night with him. *She is definitely lying about the ride she gave him home*.
> 
> *A polygraph is abolutely necessary if you think you might want to keep her.*
> 
> Set up a test, make up a list of questions you want to know the answer too. So not tell her about the test until you are on the way to the test site. You may be able to contact the local police to see who they use.
> 
> You may also be able to just fake it. Give her the list, tell her you are taking her to a polygraph, tell her she needs to answer all the questions first, then put her in the car and start driving. Tell her if any of her answers are wrong you are going to get an anulment and does she want to change any of her answers.
> 
> Usually cheaters fold before the test.
> 
> *There is a reason God/evolution gave us certain tools, gut feelings and jealousy are two of them. To ignore two of our best tools is foolish. Hopefully, in the futureyou will remember, if you are not there you cannot **** block. Why do you think people like to go to bars/clubs/parties and drink?*


This is good advice. My experiences are similar to chapparal's and so are my conclusions.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Hurts said:


> Married: About 4 months ago. (had a small ceremony in court with immediate family and some close friends. kept it private, everyone thinks we are still engaged as we were planning a grand public event in the fall next year- so late because, one of her brothers is getting married in six months and *we didn't wanted to steal their thunder*).


Hurts, you are getting really great advice that you would have to pay a fortune for in the real world.

I can't really add anything that hasn't already been touched upon. However, the bolded item above really stood out to me. Her brother is getting married in six months and you guys didn't want to steal their thunder? WTF? Whose logic was this? Are you really that passive? This alone tells me how much (or how little) she really thinks of you.

In the future, never ever ever put someone else's well-being and feelings above yours.


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## Chaparral

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Hurts, you are getting really great advice that you would have to pay a fortune for in the real world.
> 
> I can't really add anything that hasn't already been touched upon. However, the bolded item above really stood out to me. Her brother is getting married in six months and you guys didn't want to steal their thunder? WTF? Whose logic was this? Are you really that passive? This alone tells me how much (or how little) she really thinks of you.
> 
> In the future, never ever ever put someone else's well-being and feelings above yours.


LOL, when you pay for the advice, they may be reluctant to hit you with a 2x4. We do that for free. It feels better than a train though or even the karma bus.


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## TDSC60

Hurt,

Do not let your feelings of love for her blind you. There truly are no "pros" for staying married to her.

The reality is that she is a serial cheater. This type of woman has a deep seated personality disorder that can only be made better with years of intensive counselling. Even then there are no guarantees. 

She would dearly love an open marriage where she can screw any man she feels an attraction for without consequences.

If you do not want an open marriage, then divorce now and save yourself a lot of pain in the future. You actually are in a one sided open marriage at the moment.

Get the divorce.


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## Acabado

Hurts said:


> The thing is, upon discovery, she totally acknowledged that she had a problem and is willing to go to a bunch of counseling to get to the bottom of it. The AA and SA she will attend for a good while. Once again it could be a huge charade and she might be intact a hopeless case but she definitely realized that a ton of work (mainly on her) needs to be done before she will feel normal. Thoughts?


It's a delusion. It never goes away. She can learn to make it manageable, livable. But it's deeply rooted. Feeling "normal" is foreigner to her, doesn't look like your "normal".
As every addict they are addict for life. 
As every addict she will relax and will go back to being "her".
As every addict she's prone to "relapses".

She also requires sex therapy, feel "weird" about female parts, doesn't masturbate, won't enjoy oral, can't orgasm... I suspect sexual abuse, which could explain her messed up understanding of intimacy/love/sex. Once you were "safe", she felt awful (intimacy is scary and unfilflling), sex was not fun anymore. Many victims of sex abuse can't enjoy "clean" sex (within a legitimate relationship). Most times it's infixable, body won't respond. The moment she f0cked OM and orgasmed after a year she finnaly could put the blame on you so she suggested the open marriage while persuing OM for more.
That's the only reason I can believe it was the first time. The "open" offer followed the ONS.
Only later she acknowledge herself scanning, targetting potential OMs for a while... she put it on sex and love addiction. 

Why do you want to start life like this?


----------



## Chaparral

TDSC60 said:


> Hurt,
> 
> Do not let your feelings of love for her blind you. There truly are no "pros" for staying married to her.
> 
> The reality is that she is a serial cheater. This type of woman has a deep seated personality disorder that can only be made better with years of intensive counselling. Even then there are no guarantees.
> 
> She would dearly love an open marriage where she can screw any man she feels an attraction for without consequences.
> 
> If you do not want an open marriage, then divorce now and save yourself a lot of pain in the future. You actually are in a one sided open marriage at the moment.
> 
> Get the divorce.


How do we know she is a serial cheater? Did I miss something?


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## fishfast41

only one thing to say here..RUN!!!!!!


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## warlock07

I am repeating myself but you need to find out if she is a serial cheater. There is a probability that this was the first time she was stupid enough to ask for open relationship and got caught. You wouldn't have noticed anything if she did not do that.


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## TDSC60

chapparal said:


> How do we know she is a serial cheater? Did I miss something?


I thought I read in one of his first few post that she was continually flirting with other men and staying out late partying without him.

I might have read too much into it.


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## sandc

You are 4 months into your marriage... 4 months! You should still be honeymooning. The fact that she cheated so early in your marriage is a major red flag. She just is not mature enough to be married. She is not the only woman that can make you happy. There are plenty of good faithful women out there that would love to live life with you. She is not the only one.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

bfree said:


> There is a difference between jealousy and having appropriate marital boundaries. There is a difference between trying to control somone and appropriate mate guarding. Here's a question for you. Your wife has lots of male friends. Why does that seem to be acceptable to you? You allowed her to go to a party where there would be lots of men and drinking. Why would you allow that? Do you not realize that when you get married the patterns and behavior that accompany the single life must end? I understand that you are still very young but you really need to familiarize yourself with basic human nature.


Never rub another mans rhubarb!!!!!!

When marriage is in full effect, no GNO, no sleep overs, no opposite sex friends (OSF) having lunch together, picking out gifts together, coffee, talking about marriage problems with any OSF, she crossed a serious boundary. 

You said it yourself, she was super flirtatious. Why would a woman be if not wanting attention and be sexually enticing to other men when she already has you?

Screw OSF when you have a personality like that. Those people do not even bother TESTING boundaries, they go all the way in one move, skinny dipping in cake lake. There are no accidents when it comes to cheating.


----------



## Doggone

I'd get out while you are stll young. If she is going to do this months after the wedding, your future looks dismal. Not trying to hurt your feelings, but just telling you like it is.


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## Acabado

sandc said:


> You are 4 months into your marriage... 4 months! You should still be honeymooning. The fact that she cheated so early in your marriage is a major red flag. She just is not mature enough to be married.


And that's the thing, it was not a long engagement either. The started dating only one year before the wedding. It's not a long term relationship. The honeymoon period was indeed honeymoon period not as many couples who spend 7 years together before finnaly get maried.

I'm thinking the Love sex addiction is something which
a) She's just using as copout to justify herself.
b) She knows it's a pattern, this is not the first rodeo, she's aware of this vulnerability and was trying to figure out herself for a while.


----------



## workindad

Sorry for the position you are in...

4-months- I'd cut my losses and not waste more of my life on a wayward spouse. 

I wish you well OP. Hopefully the New Year will bring you a chance to start again and rebuild your life. Happiness does exist after divorce- this is based on personal experience.

All the best
WD


----------



## Shaggy

Hurts said:


> Also,
> 
> 
> 
> Her character was what reeled me in. She appeared fundamentally good. :scratchhead:
> Just this sweetest person, who is a "social butterfly" :rofl:
> I felt very confident having children with her and having a great multi decade marriage with her. Our values and goals in life are very similar.


These are characteristics of a good con-artist as well. They make you feel special with their attention, and since they are social butterflies, when they give you extra focus is feels like a prize because you've essentially gotten voted up over the other many people they are giving their attention too.

As to the values and goals - no they are not the same. You aren't a cheater - she is, and I don't mean that as name calling, I'm pointing it out as a very divergent set of values. She has in the past cheated you of attention and her presence - when she's out and out and out being the social butterfly. Now, at least this time you've caught her, she is also physcially cheating on you. BTW - I really doubt this is her first time. You don't just jump into SA - there is more but she is holding back telling you.

Back to the con-artist skill set. They get you to feel trust in them by identifying you values and priorities as their own values and priorities - at least in talk and easy actions.

But as you have found out, when it comes down to big actions they are not the same, and they are not loyal. This is 120 days in and she's already gotten caught with radically different values. 

she didn't have a ONS and then run crying in dispair over what she did. Nope. Instead she continued to stay in touch with him and keep it alive. They would have met and had sex again and again if you hadn't caught it this time. 

Her story and her actions are not at all lined up - nor are her values with yours.

What she is now doing is pulling the con-artist game - when caught she's appearing to be open and admit things and volunteer to fix "her" , but how to you fix someone's fundamental values and make up? Her values include going to a party - getting hit on - getting picked up - getting fvcked - keeping touch - planning a next time - AND - without blinking an eyelash coming home to sleep it off beside you.

you are being sucked back in to your comfort zone by her and lulled into believing the problem is being fixed.


----------



## the guy

I found it interesting that your STBXW is so close to coming to terms with what she realy is, what sucks is she can't be honest with her self.
I mean she want so much to have you believes that she is this "good girl" but deep down she knows she likes being a dirty girl. She hides this from you out of shame, instead of being honest with you.
It truelly is a shame that she hides her sexuallity from you and makes you believe she is so pure were in fact she has disires.

In short it all boils down to every case here at CWI and that is honesty or the lack of. You sound like a good man, to bad your STBXW was so affraid to show you her dirty side.....you could have met that need she has...to bad she tried to hide her sexual hunger from you and used other men to get that need met, to bad she still struggles with who she really is.

Until she faces her self she will not beable to face a healthy commited relationship.

Thats my $0.02


----------



## SweetAndSour

Acabado said:


> She also requires sex therapy, *feel "weird" about female parts, doesn't masturbate, won't enjoy oral, can't orgasm... I suspect sexual abuse, which could explain her messed up understanding of intimacy/love/sex. Once you were "safe", she felt awful (intimacy is scary and unfilflling), sex was not fun anymore. Many victims of sex abuse can't enjoy "clean" sex (within a legitimate relationship)*. Most times it's infixable, body won't respond. *The moment she f0cked OM and orgasmed* after a year she finnaly could put the blame on you so she suggested the open marriage while persuing OM for more.
> 
> 
> Why do you want to start life like this?


Great insight here acabado,

This deserves a spin off thread, I am naming it "Women with attachment problems and their lovers". I have alot to say about this and I don't want to highjack Hurts thread.


----------



## sandc

So what are you doing Hurts?


----------



## Hurts

sandc said:


> So what are you doing Hurts?


Y'all are my pro bono therapy! I have a natural mistrust of counselors and can't really see myself seeing one. 

I am hanging in there. I am amazed how much my body is affected. I slept probably around 3 hours every night for the last few days. I am not really hungry, and barely eat. Lots of coffee, booze, jazz tobacco. Friends are great and truly an asset you can't put a price tag on. I am able to discuss it all with them very sincerely. I know I shouldn't over indulge but I am a walking stress ball and just don't want to think about it all for while. In a few days, once I return to my town, I plan dealing with it more constructively. Thoughts so far are running, exercising, eating well, dive into the business and side projects.

For the last few days I've been on a free of charge emotional roller coaster ride. 
One second I am calm and confident, thinking:

I didn't dodge a bullet. I dodged a ****ing cannon ball.

The other I am on the verge of tears reliving everything and assuming the worst. 

You all were completely right, and no amount of mutilating self inflicted delusion would help. After some new information I now know for a fact that she is a serial cheater with a history of similar behavior that others confirmed. After talking with a bunch of friends, three different males said that they felt she was flirting with them. New revelations: She kissed another guy that she knew from before and that I have met prior, a year and a half ago. Few months later invited him to a bar with me and friends attending. We were hanging out for a special occasion. This guy is a complete lanky goof ball that assures me her adulteries are beyond physical attraction. It is deeply ingrained in her ****ed up psyche. It is almost as she has a sick perversion of bringing the guy she cheats with to be in her husband's and his friends' environment for fun and excitement or ****s and giggles.

How could I be so ****ing blind? Three and a half years she flirts with guys in front of me while I whistle along cheerfully. I totally understand now that complete trust doesn't mean the lack of basic appropriate marital boundaries.

I know its probably a bad idea to self diagnose **** online but I agree with you: Histrionic personality disorder sounds exactly like her. 

Three things:

I told her not to ever contact that best guy friend until he no longer lives with that **** sucker roommate (I think he found OM on Craigslist) and even after that evaluate why she felt safe to do so in his space and if he should be in her life. I also feel maybe there is also something strange going on between them. He is still roommates with OM and isn't thinking about kicking out/moving out from a stranger that ****ed his best female friend knowing well that she is freshly wed, ruinning her marriage and relationship. She agreed cutting contact.

I told her she needs to move out of the house by the time I come back in town in a few days, she has a brother and an aunt and she could rent an apartment. She agreed to do so.

Polygraph for sure will satisfy my cravings for the complete truth. The problem is that those things are highly inaccurate and a false positive will be kinda pointless.

I am done with her for sure. Should I give give her the satisfaction of attending a few couple therapy sessions? The only gain could be me explaining exactly how she is and was to her counselor in hopes she could regurgitate it to my broken shell of a wife. She needs to learn how to signal any guys at all times within the minute, that she is happily married, if she ever hopes to be in a long term healthy relationship. It is going to take years and years of counseling and I think the success rate is definitely not stellar. I am simply too young to deal with this **** show. No kids, no home, four months in, no fancy public ceremony. Also, should I even allow her same personal counselor to be the counselor in our couple therapy? Isn't the point is to have an impartial facilitator that don't have bias to either party? Isn't that it is almost by default that the side that pays the counselor will gain hidden but obvious bias for that paying side and regardless will try to prolong and milk the whole experience for sweet cash? I am not going to put a dime into neither seasons. Her mom is footing the bill.

I am so glad I opened the whole experience to everyone I know as I am not feeling as shamed as I should and finally people that surround her will know the real wife in her manipulative and fanged form.

That stupid crazy evil ***** gave away the prospects of living with a handsome fit man. Loyal, responsible with money. Trusting without jealousy and control issues. Intelligent and kind that always encouraged her to do whatever she was exciting about. Always was flattering and loving and understanding. Just to get ****ed up drunk and hook up with random guys after they throw a few shallow compliments and look her in the eye. Good ****ing riddance. 

Annulment. I definitely hope this will be an option. Brief investigation online revealed that infidelity prior and during early marriage are not considered grounds for Annulment in my state. Should I contact the judge who wed us? Should I contact a lawyer? I don't want to be a mid twenties divorcee due to a fraudulent marriage. Regardless, should I get a lawyer regardless? We have very few assets to our name, and don't think this will be an issue. We kept separate bank accounts (I have a business, and a personal account which she has access to. Should I withdraw my money? It is very unlikely that she will do anything like that as everybody's family is now involved and she couldn't do something like that at "Daylight". 

Final note. Which might provide some catharsis for the vengeful readership. The guys I am staying with and myself, went to a nice dive bar for new years eve. I was pretty drunk at the time as cheating wife just emailed me "Final and Complete Truth Mk 5" which revealed that 1.Yes, there was another time, a year a half ago with a guy I know in a bar. They just kissed. and 2.That she has somethings she needs to say but feel comfortable only discussing it in front of the counselor. My mind is obviously spins with questions and worse case scenarios. What the **** else is she not comfortable with revealing in an email after all this Armageddon? I fear the worst. Multiple sex episodes all over with people I know/friends? Stds? Who ****ing knows. Also, no way I can trust her completely that this final confession is the last one. The previous one was after a two therapy sessions and was also "final".

So back to the bar, had a few beers with the boys and then went to the second story where the dancing floor was. It was pretty packed, around 23:00 PM. Musky and poorly lit. Probably like a hundred jumping bodies with barely enough room to squeeze through a carrot. I am not a big dancer and feel pretty self conscious about the whole affair but you get enough liquor in me and I'll dance my ass off. So I am standing near the dj, drinking a cool pint of Guinness and people watch. Its pretty crazy, sweaty loosed clothed bodies hopping and grinding in unison. Very much like you could find during the height of the roman empire, indulgence period. When all primal needs where not to be denied and are actively encouraged and advertised in daylight publicly. So this foxxy black chick, almost tall as me (i'm 6') dancing twenty feet away from me. She is thin, dressed in colorful eighties inspired tight fitting green dress. There is a shorter, un attractive black friend that danced around her, probably her wing men or who knows what. I check her our for a minute. Suddenly her short buddy approaches me and says his friend wants to dance with me. I go there introduce myself and we dance some. Can't feel a solid connection/chemistry after a few minutes so slowly drifted to mingle with the crowds. After a few minutes I find this cute late twenties tall brunette, skinny with a great face. We dance and she slowly signals to proceed and proceed. We are almost grinding after a few minutes and there is a humming lust. We exchange a few basic introductions while dancing (if by sheer chance you are reading this, you last year grad art school student from Colorado studying in a different state. please know you are very cute, I dig your tattoos and under different circumstances I would totally hookup with you), We kiss for a number of minutes at midnight. I de-escelate the situation and although horny as a unicorn, leave the bar a few minutes later without knowing her name or any way to contact her again. I intentionally choose not to have sex but felt like :smthumbup: the whole way back home.

I know this is probably not healthy and not constructive but it made me feel really good after almost a week of pain. I felt like a man and not a like a ****ing cuckload. I know this sounds boastful and shallow but I am happy I done it. Returning home, see that wife texted me at midnight and four minutes telling me everything going to be alright and that she stayed in and that she loves me. I texted back telling her I kissed a girl at midnight, and we can talk about it at therapy. She replied that she understands and that she loves me no matter what. Silly and vengeful I let her taste a tiny drop from her own barrel of medicine.

I appreciate everybody reading up till this far and your insights. I read everyone y'all replies, some of them more than once. Keep em coming


----------



## sandc

If you're going to annul or divorce her... nah, I wouldn't bother with MC with her. You won't be responsible for her. Suggest she get some IC and wish her luck. Get some for yourself to. Remember, you were attracted to this train wreck, go figure out why and find a different type of girl.

Try to act honorably no matter how f'ed up your wife is. If she wants to drag her reputation through the gutter, fine let her. But don't stoop to her level. You caught it in time but you were getting close to a revenge affair. Some will say you already crossed the line.

Get rid of her then go back to that bar and look for those art school students.

You're getting there. Hang in there.


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## JCD

If you are done with her:

1. Who are you to set conditions? She can be friends with whoever the Hell she wants.

2. Why waste money on a counselor? So you can tell her how you feel? Either the counselor will agree with you and nod OR will turn this back on you trying to drum up more business...I mean 'help you with your problems'. Write a letter. It will save you money.

3. Who cares what else she has to say? That she screwed a Bolivian dwarf while you were drunk one day? If it was an STD the County Health Department would be in touch. Anything else is said just to make HER feel better. If you feel it your role to help her heal, have HER pay for the counselor and let her talk. (Recording the revelation would be just WRONG...)

So you seem a bit inconsistent. Secure your finances, consult an attorney and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurts

JCD said:


> If you are done with her:
> 
> 1. Who are you to set conditions? She can be friends with whoever the Hell she wants.
> 
> 2. Why waste money on a counselor? So you can tell her how you feel? Either the counselor will agree with you and nod OR will turn this back on you trying to drum up more business...I mean 'help you with your problems'. Write a letter. It will save you money.
> 
> 3. Who cares what else she has to say? That she screwed a Bolivian dwarf while you were drunk one day? If it was an STD the County Health Department would be in touch. Anything else is said just to make HER feel better. If you feel it your role to help her heal, have HER pay for the counselor and let her talk. (Recording the revelation would be just WRONG...)
> 
> So you seem a bit inconsistent. Secure your finances, consult an attorney and move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"OR will turn this back on you trying to drum up more business...I mean 'help you with your problems'. " I laughed when you wrote that, because in our emergency day 1 rushed couple's therapy session, the guy maybe said 6 sentences the whole hour and after that gave me his card, in case I need help to cope with it, for $150 an hour that is. Like I said, I am not going to pay for none of the counseling, one or one or couples.


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## turnera

Then just divorce her.


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## Will_Kane

I understand how you feel, like you've been taken advantage of, lied to, and cheated on for the duration of your relationship, and you're mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore.

Try to rein in your emotions. Your wife sounds like a damaged person. She was OK with you kissing the girl because she's done a lot, lot worse, which you are going to find out about at your marraige counseling.

If you want to satisfy your curiousity, go to the session. Be polite and civil with your wife. After the session, just tell her that you can't continue in the marriage, you can't get over it, if this happened this early in the marriage when your life has ZERO stresses in it, you can't imagine what it will be like later.

Conduct yourself in a dignified manner, she knows what she's done, and you don't need to rub her nose in it. Don't let your friends egg you on to be mean, just see the lawyer, and see what you need to do to be rid of her.

Secure your finances. Don't take any chances. Especially if you're going to be antagonizing her.


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## keko

Forget the counseling. It's just a trick to fool you once again.

Just kick her out of the house and go no contact with her.

Consult 2-3 lawyers right away and start the annulment/divorce ASAP.

Don't **** other girls until your divorce is over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man

If you go to MC, you will spend money and feel worse about each other. The first session or two will be a re-hashing of what's happened and you'll feel like crap and your wife will probably cry and beg forgiveness and the MC will sign you up for long-term MC and in the end, nothing will be fixed. Your wife needs IC - she has a problem. Hopefully, she can get repaired - but it is not your problem and you should not worry about it. 

Get your marriage annulled and move on. You're still young. When you're 50 or 60 and celebrating an anniversary with your true soulmate, look back on this as a crazy mistake of your youth.


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## Shaggy

Just diviorce her. You've found out that she's lied to you about who she truly is. Dump her and be on guard for her getting suddenly knocked up by you or someone else.


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## Hurts

So here is a brief update and a few questions.

Meeting with a competent counselor that I felt good about, My STBXW and myself had a two hour session. In the session she revealed the extent of her Sex and Love addiction (which once again, in her case I truly believe the wife is addicted to "love" and affirmation and endless validation and attention from men. Sex did happen but it was not the "main course on the menu"). The counselor did agree that it could be a pattern and a behavior disorder (although, I need to remember that this was our first meeting with the counselor, and many more more will needed with STBXW and counselor before a final and legitimate diagnosis will be set in place). 

I decided that no matter what, issue or no issue, I am going to file for divorce, hopefully an Annulment. Doing the math and counting the numbers I discovered she actually cheated on me a mere 83 days after we got wed. Which is... Two months and some change. It will take years of counseling on her behalf and under her desire to change herself for me to even think she could be monogamous. MAYBE, and that's a real long shot, after a few years, if I can see she have changed, we could slowly date again. Regardless I am not going to put my life on hold and will date and seek others as I please. I told all this to the counselor and her. STBXW started crying uncontrollably, and the counselor said not to rash anything. She said maybe more marriage counseling sessions would help me "cope". The thing is, I don't want to "cope". I am done. Is there any reason for me to even reconsider that position?

Annulment. I reside in the spartan state of Texas. And Texas has its own god damn rules regarding Annulment. Apparently Texas' Annulment is considered extra hard to achieve when compared to other states. One clause that could work on my favor is this: "Mental Incapacity" to enter a marriage. Could I claim that she could not even enter a marriage, having been diagnosed (hopefully in the next few weeks) with "Love Addiction". Thus being incapable staying monogamous. Cheating on me 83 days after the wedding will clearly help my case. Of course I am going to seek a lawyer when needed but would love to hear your opinion on the matter. Has anyone here ever got an annulment in Texas?

Nice Guy. That's me. Couldn't set and enforce proper marital boundaries. Couldn't feel jealous due to fear of being controlling and abusive. Even now, I still speak with STBXW. Instead putting all her **** in trash bags and leave it in the rain I try to help her to become a better person. I WANT TO CHANGE. I DON'T WANT TO BE A PUSH OVER ANY MORE. 
What kind of resources, mainly books would you recommend? I don't really like the whole "Seduction" and "Pick Up Artist" methodology as it reeks of women hating, manipulation and mind games. I want to be assertive and get what I want in life. Any recommendations?

Thank you all so much again for your invaluable advice and support. You are all truly god sent.


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## LetDownNTX

Hurts said:


> So here is a brief update and a few questions.
> 
> Meeting with a competent counselor that I felt good about, My STBXW and myself had a two hour session. In the session she revealed the extent of her Sex and Love addiction (which once again, in her case I truly believe the wife is addicted to "love" and affirmation and endless validation and attention from men. Sex did happen but it was not the "main course on the menu"). The counselor did agree that it could be a pattern and a behavior disorder (although, I need to remember that this was our first meeting with the counselor, and many more more will needed with STBXW and counselor before a final and legitimate diagnosis will be set in place).
> 
> I decided that no matter what, issue or no issue, I am going to file for divorce, hopefully an Annulment. Doing the math and counting the numbers I discovered she actually cheated on me a mere 83 days after we got wed. Which is... Two months and some change. It will take years of counseling on her behalf and under her desire to change herself for me to even think she could be monogamous. MAYBE, and that's a real long shot, after a few years, if I can see she have changed, we could slowly date again. Regardless I am not going to put my life on hold and will date and seek others as I please. I told all this to the counselor and her. STBXW started crying uncontrollably, and the counselor said not to rash anything. She said maybe more marriage counseling sessions would help me "cope". The thing is, I don't want to "cope". I am done. Is there any reason for me to even reconsider that position?
> 
> Annulment. I reside in the spartan state of Texas. And Texas has its own god damn rules regarding Annulment. Apparently Texas' Annulment is considered extra hard to achieve when compared to other states. One clause that could work on my favor is this: "Mental Incapacity" to enter a marriage. Could I claim that she could not even enter a marriage, having been diagnosed (hopefully in the next few weeks) with "Love Addiction". Thus being incapable staying monogamous. Cheating on me 83 days after the wedding will clearly help my case. Of course I am going to seek a lawyer when needed but would love to hear your opinion on the matter. Has anyone here ever got an annulment in Texas?
> 
> Nice Guy. That's me. Couldn't set and enforce proper marital boundaries. Couldn't feel jealous due to fear of being controlling and abusive. Even now, I still speak with STBXW. Instead putting all her **** in trash bags and leave it in the rain I try to help her to become a better person. I WANT TO CHANGE. I DON'T WANT TO BE A PUSH OVER ANY MORE.
> What kind of resources, mainly books would you recommend? I don't really like the whole "Seduction" and "Pick Up Artist" methodology as it reeks of women hating, manipulation and mind games. I want to be assertive and get what I want in life. Any recommendations?
> 
> Thank you all so much again for your invaluable advice and support. You are all truly god sent.



Its good to hear that you have decided what you want to do and that you sound sure of it. D is a hard thing to do but in your case, with no kids. I'd probably do it too! You deserve better.

Im in TX but dont know anything about the annulment laws.


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## malkuth

I read your post and I am really very sorry for you. she may not be a bad person, she may change but what she did was very bad for you. you are in an early stage of marriage so letting it go would be a wise idea I guess. try to stop thinking how good she was for you and focus on the bad sides.

I wish you a happy life whatever you decide to do but I think that the happier one will come from "leaving her".


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## dogman

Hurts said:


> So here is a brief update and a few questions.
> 
> Meeting with a competent counselor that I felt good about, My STBXW and myself had a two hour session. In the session she revealed the extent of her Sex and Love addiction (which once again, in her case I truly believe the wife is addicted to "love" and affirmation and endless validation and attention from men. Sex did happen but it was not the "main course on the menu"). The counselor did agree that it could be a pattern and a behavior disorder (although, I need to remember that this was our first meeting with the counselor, and many more more will needed with STBXW and counselor before a final and legitimate diagnosis will be set in place).
> 
> I decided that no matter what, issue or no issue, I am going to file for divorce, hopefully an Annulment. Doing the math and counting the numbers I discovered she actually cheated on me a mere 83 days after we got wed. Which is... Two months and some change. It will take years of counseling on her behalf and under her desire to change herself for me to even think she could be monogamous. MAYBE, and that's a real long shot, after a few years, if I can see she have changed, we could slowly date again. Regardless I am not going to put my life on hold and will date and seek others as I please. I told all this to the counselor and her. STBXW started crying uncontrollably, and the counselor said not to rash anything. She said maybe more marriage counseling sessions would help me "cope". The thing is, I don't want to "cope". I am done. Is there any reason for me to even reconsider that position?
> 
> Annulment. I reside in the spartan state of Texas. And Texas has its own god damn rules regarding Annulment. Apparently Texas' Annulment is considered extra hard to achieve when compared to other states. One clause that could work on my favor is this: "Mental Incapacity" to enter a marriage. Could I claim that she could not even enter a marriage, having been diagnosed (hopefully in the next few weeks) with "Love Addiction". Thus being incapable staying monogamous. Cheating on me 83 days after the wedding will clearly help my case. Of course I am going to seek a lawyer when needed but would love to hear your opinion on the matter. Has anyone here ever got an annulment in Texas?
> 
> Nice Guy. That's me. Couldn't set and enforce proper marital boundaries. Couldn't feel jealous due to fear of being controlling and abusive. Even now, I still speak with STBXW. Instead putting all her **** in trash bags and leave it in the rain I try to help her to become a better person. I WANT TO CHANGE. I DON'T WANT TO BE A PUSH OVER ANY MORE.
> What kind of resources, mainly books would you recommend? I don't really like the whole "Seduction" and "Pick Up Artist" methodology as it reeks of women hating, manipulation and mind games. I want to be assertive and get what I want in life. Any recommendations?
> 
> Thank you all so much again for your invaluable advice and support. You are all truly god sent.



It's OK if you end up divorcing instead of annulment. Even the bible says that infidelity is the one reason you can divorce without a second thought.

You are blameless.


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## turnera

You're doing the right thing, for BOTH of you. This may be the one thing that spurs her to get help. You'd have to check with a lawyer on the annulment. I don't know ANYone here in Texas who has gotten one. But if she cheated, you have Biblical grounds to divorce her anyway.

As for books that are down to earth, the first two you should read are No More Mr Nice Guy and Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. (from Los Angeles life men's coach, support group activities, counseling retreat community - love their website, too).


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## Chaparral

Married Man Sex Life Primer (Not a sex manual at all) and a must read for every man

Hold on to Your N.U.T.S.

Not Just Friends

No More Mr Nice Guy

His Needs Her Needs

The Five Love Landuages


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## Shaggy

I think you're doing the right things here. And those are 1. Getting her to seek help. 2. Divorcing 3. Standing up for yourself.

#3 is how I see your choice to divorce her. You recognize that she cannot be the woman you deserve as a wife - that is faithful and monogamous. She is simply too involved in seeking the love of others, and willing to offer up sex to men to get it. 

She may be a lovely person in many other ways, but even with a ton of talking to MCs you will never be able to trust her. Her drive for "love" is too strong to every trust that she would stay true.

I know the decision is hard, but you will look back and be proud of yourself for recognizing a no-win situation and standing up.


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## Shaggy

btw- this may also be the turning point she needs to work on fixing herself. Actually loosing the marriage she wanted the husband she thought she had hooked might actually be enough of a event to make her hit bottom and really take action.

Action here is going to be a long term project for her, not six months of talking to an IC once a week.


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## bfree

Good decision to end the marriage in whatever way works. She needs space to work on herself (and boy does she have a lot of work to do) and you should not stay in limbo while waiting for her. Who knows what the future holds. Maybe one day you'll get back together.

I agree with turnera. No More Mr Nice Guy and Hold on to Your N.U.T.S. should be your first two reads followed by Married Man Sex Life Primer.

By P.U.A. and Seduction I assume you're talking about game. I think you might be confused about what game theory really is. All game theory teaches is how to interract with women in a way that satisfies both of you and fulfills the biological drives we all have. It doesn't mean you need to go out to a bar and have a bunch of one night stands unless that's what you choose to do. And as far as seduction goes. If I take my wife out for a nice dinner, then we go dancing, we come home and I light some candles and proceed to give her a full body massage am I not seducing her? Wouldn't most women call that a romantic evening? And in point of fact women are much better at game than most men are. Short dresses, low cut blouses, makeup, nice glossy hair are all game tactics as well. Frankly I would encourage you to study up on game if only so you can hold up your end of a relationship.


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## larry.gray

Hurts said:


> Regardless I am not going to put my life on hold and will date and seek others as I please. I told all this to the counselor and her. STBXW started crying uncontrollably, and the counselor said not to rash anything. She said maybe more marriage counseling sessions would help me "cope". The thing is, I don't want to "cope". I am done. Is there any reason for me to even reconsider that position?


Ugh, what an perfect example of a counselor wanting to "see both sides" when one side is doing absolutely unacceptable things.

I assume you meant either "don't be rash" or "don't rush things." Either way the appropriate response should have been "What the HELL do you expect woman, you cheated on him 83 days into your marriage. Any self respecting man will RUN."


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## ThreeStrikes

Hurts,

You guys don't need MC. Your STBXW needs IC.

I doubt you even need IC....just read some of the books suggested here. That's up to you. Also, now you know the type of woman to avoid in the future.

But MC? Nah. What's the point if your are divorcing?


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## kenmoore14217

STBXW started crying uncontrollably, and the counselor said not to rash anything. She said maybe more marriage counseling sessions would help me "cope". The thing is, I don't want to "cope". I am done. Is there any reason for me to even reconsider that position?


COUNSELOR IS THINKING WITH WALLET, YOU ARE THINKING WITH YOUR HEAD


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## JCD

Infidelity might be a better option for filing. Texas hates quitters, but it hates cheaters more.

You are NOT a quitter but most folks filing an annulment probably are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

Hurts,
It is so refreshing to see a BS see their situation for what it is and take the correct actions. She cheated WAY too soon after your marriage. She is not marriage material at this point. You have already laid out the correct course of action. Do not give in to her emotionality. She's not sad she's losing you, she afraid of being divorced. It's a rejection and she can't handle that can she?

Don't bother with the annulment. Just file for D and don't bother with any more MC. Just encourage her to get IC. Chap recommended all the right books above. Read them straight through before you get into another relationship or even start dating. It will put you into the 90th percentile of men who understand women and attract women.

Chart a new course for your life and fly straight into it. No deviations!


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## Jasel

Ya I really don't see the point of MC at that point. It seems pretty clear, at the moment anyway, she is nowhere near ready for marriage.


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## ArmyofJuan

I got an annulment in Texas about 20 years ago. I was able to prove she was common-law married and got my ex to sign off on it (my lawyer had papers drawn, cost me about $500). Judge seemed only to care about her agreeing to it and just sign off himself.

Probably doesn’t help you much but for me it wasn’t too hard.


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## Hurts

Thank you all!

Just ordered "No More Mr Nice Guy". Going to read it cover to cover. Will read the rest as well.

Funny thing is, wife a few months ago, gave me a copy of "Five languages of love" she read. It was recommended to her by a friend. I am in the middle of it, but I think the author failed to mention the sixth language of love, which is, #6 - Don't Let Another Men's Penis Be Inside Of You, Two Months After Your Wedding, Love Language. 

My copy is pretty old. Is the new revisited edition mentions it?


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## DavidWYoung

Divorce her now. Work on yourself. If you want her later, like in two years, you can DATE her. If she is willing.


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## Will_Kane

Hurts said:


> Thank you all!
> 
> Just ordered "No More Mr Nice Guy". Going to read it cover to cover. Will read the rest as well.
> 
> Funny thing is, wife a few months ago, gave me a copy of "Five languages of love" she read. It was recommended to her by a friend. I am in the middle of it, but I think the author failed to mention the sixth language of love, which is, #6 - Don't Let Another Men's Penis Be Inside Of You, Two Months After Your Wedding, Love Language.
> 
> My copy is pretty old. Is the new revisited edition mentions it?


Who was the guy two-plus months after the wedding? The same guy - best guy friend's roommate?


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