# I feel like he's being rewarded for cheating



## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

*What are his consequences for having an innapropriate relationship?*

I have been told to improve things at home, to clean up "my side of the street".....isn't this rewarding his bad behavior?

This man has sucked the life out of me. I evidently did not suck the life out of him because he had the time and energy for another relationship. I am trying to be stronger and work on myself but this philosophy is driving me crazy!!!! 

*What are his consequences for having an innapropriate relationship?*


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

This is a good question; lately I've been wondering the same thing. My husband cheated on me, completely gutted our business, has a waterfront home, has our children's admiration, and has a nice paying job now. If it weren't for my family and friends I would be out on the street. Oh, and I'm the one in counseling because the lying, cheating scum bag says it's all my fault. 

My family and friends tell me he will get what he deserves--eventually. But, like you, I'm WAITING. I honestly think our society is much to easy on cheaters.


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

I think you need to adjust your mindset. 

It isn't about rewarding him. It is about acting in the most honourable way for you to live up to the vows you made, for you to be, every day, the very best you have the potential to be. Its about setting your course for your life to change for the better. So whether your life continues with him, or you continue on a separate path, you will learn and grow from what has gone before. 

So sorting out any behaviours that may impact negatively is for you to be better, not to make him feel better. And anyway a man so deep in midlife crisis isn't going to find anything that will make him feel better - but that's his lesson to learn, and it looks like he's going to find out the hard way.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Check out Surviving an Affair by Harley.


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

hi there, 

It's hard to think about the right things when you are hurting and angry because of an affair.....
Being the best person you can be will get you through all this in the long term.....you must live your life the right way so you can sleep at night.
You didn't do anything wrong, don't start now.....be the best you can be, keep yourself busy......
It's not that you are doing it for your husband you are doing it for you.......
Your husband will have his own demons to deal.
Do a lot of reading on this site and you will see the positives that come from working on yourself and becoming stronger and able to cope with whatever life throws at you......what you are feelings is normal it takes a bit of time to work through all you are feeling........
good luck


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for the replies, I'm getting it...kind of. But still there are no consequences for him that any of you mentioned. Yes we can all work on ourselves (whether our spouses cheated or didn't) and in the end it is really going to benefit us. But what are his consequences? He has not a shed a tear, he got to be adored and worshipped by a beautiful young woman half his age and then his wife found out about it and was told by the marriage counselor to compliment him more. Got it, doing it even though it feels wrong. 

What are his consequences?


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

yogachick said:


> Thanks for the replies, I'm getting it...kind of. But still there are no consequences for him that any of you mentioned. Yes we can all work on ourselves (whether our spouses cheated or didn't) and in the end it is really going to benefit us. But what are his consequences? He has not a shed a tear, he got to be adored and worshipped by a beautiful young woman half his age and then his wife found out about it and was told by the marriage counselor to compliment him more. Got it, doing it even though it feels wrong.
> 
> What are his consequences?


I do get exactly where you are coming from, but I think that there is no real answer to your question, in fact I think part of the process of you moving forward is to see that if you continue to dwell on it this question will only serve to do one thing - torture you and get in the way of your happiness. 

We have to accept that at times life seems damn unfair. It may be that some where along the line he will wake up and see what a prize idiot has been (it may even be that he feels that already and no way will he tell you). It may be that karma cuts his legs off somewhere down the road. It may be that in his next life he is reincarnated as a male black widow spider. You could torture yourself forever and never know. 

I do know that the best type of revenge on someone who does you wrong is to be happy. He may well be on the way to f***ing up his own life but that doesn't mean he gets to f*** up yours.


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

To add one more thought-

Do YOU need to see him suffer before you feel you can move forward?


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

yogachick said:


> Thanks for the replies, I'm getting it...kind of. But still there are no consequences for him that any of you mentioned. Yes we can all work on ourselves (whether our spouses cheated or didn't) and in the end it is really going to benefit us. But what are his consequences? He has not a shed a tear, he got to be adored and worshipped by a beautiful young woman half his age and then his wife found out about it and was told by the marriage counselor to compliment him more. Got it, doing it even though it feels wrong.
> 
> What are his consequences?


I get what you are saying--loud and clear. These replies are nice, but they dance around the issue. My estranged husband is living in a bed of roses while I live in the briar patch. And by the way, I'm not a negative person. Everything I ever worked for was taken from me (and our children) due to the adulterous hubsand's bad choices. My therapist says karma will come into play one day. She says his consequences will be realized when he finally has to pay spousal support. 

Whatever....you may be still trying to save your marriage. That's tough. I'm to the point I don't care what I say. I'm ready to have some equity and closure--and ready for him to endure some of the consequences of his own making.

We can work on ourselves tirelessly, but at some point we realize we shouldn't be having to suffer because someone else made bad decisions.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Willow said:


> To add one more thought-
> 
> Do YOU need to see him suffer before you feel you can move forward?


True to a point. But what about when she goes to counseling and the therapist tells her to praise him more. He cheats and his consequences are to have his wife grovel at his feet. Things are just messed up--and I honestly don't know what the answer is.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

Willow said:


> To add one more thought-
> 
> Do YOU need to see him suffer before you feel you can move forward?



I don't think so, more like I would feel he would be less likely to do it again.


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

827Aug said:


> True to a point. But what about when she goes to counseling and the therapist tells her to praise him more. He cheats and his consequences are to have his wife grovel at his feet. Things are just messed up--and I honestly don't know what the answer is.


I did wonder whether a blanket attempt at complimenting could possibly be effective? I think if I'd taken that approach with my H , especially when any compliment coming out of my mouth would have had a very hollow tone, it would have come across as false. Perhaps looking for the positive, and acknowledging and giving thanks for a specific task (eg my husband helped me haul 2 trailers of hay for my horses yesterday, not normally something he'd have done so I made it clear I appreciated his help) or indeed giving thanks for a specific area of input, may be a more genuine way to start to introduce some positivity in the relationship, which I assume is where the therapist is trying to get to. I honestly think a man truly in the grip of a midlife crisis doesn't know if its Friday or raining and there is nothing that will make him feel good deep down because he is in such turmoil. 

Yogachick - have you had a chance to read through any of the articles on midlifeclub.com ? They are worth looking over.


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## Willow (Jun 17, 2010)

yogachick said:


> I don't think so, more like I would feel he would be less likely to do it again.


Yes I have struggled with this one too. Again I have come to the conclusion that I cannot predict whether it will happen or not. What I do have the power to do is to ensure that this marriage is as good as it possibly can be, and to make sure that he clearly understands my boundaries / limits, so knows the consequences of future indiscretions. Having gone through the shock of everything the first time round, and messed up in how I handled it all to begin with, I can also tell you that if it happens again he will be dealing with a very different woman. The frightened, needy, worried wimp has gone.


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## tj71 (Jul 20, 2010)

I know how you feel. And furthermore, from what I have been told and have read, he will get over his pain a lot quicker than you. Yours will linger maybe for years. I hope that's not the case, I truly do...because I don't want my pain to linger for years.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

He doesn't seem to have any pain, other than the pain of losing _her_ due to my insistence. He's in pain that the party is over and he's down to having only one woman on his arm.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

yogachick said:


> He doesn't seem to have any pain, other than the pain of losing _her_ due to my insistence. He's in pain that the party is over and he's down to having only one woman on his arm.


I too, agree that it's bullsh*t. There's absolutely nothing to let him know that he crossed boundaries. He's basically being rewarded while you suffer. What is to make him think twice about cheating again if he knows the only consequence he has is a barrage of love from his wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> He doesn't seem to have any pain, other than the pain of losing her due to my insistence. He's in pain that the party is over and he's down to having only one woman on his arm


I am unsure of the insistence on people feeling pain here - a healthy marriage is not based around pain, and it seems to me that if anyone is indeed looking for their marriage to recover, that the goal should be a healthy marriage. Anything else will likely result in a repeat of the cause of your pain. 

Don't be too sure that your spouse did not go through some very painful times up until he decided to check out of the marriage. Very often, the REASON people cheat is to end the pain they have been going through.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

He said he wanted to see if he could still get a younger woman. He said he wanted to know if he still "had it". He seemed pretty happy with the marriage to me. I was the one that was frustrated, he's a little challenging due to being bipolar and having some other mental health issues. He actually seemed to fall out of love with me overnight, very eerie. My best friend said she could never have imagined he would have done this in a million years because he always looked like he was madly in love with me. People would say that all the time about us. We were always a very passionate couple. I really think it's just a mid-life crises plain and simple and I told him he's only allowed ONE LOL!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Does he now give you all his passwords and his phone and computer whenever you ask? Did he write a No Contact letter to OW that you read and sent yourself? Is he doing any sort of personal counseling to see why he's capable of hurting you?


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

He did give me the password to his computer and I looked at it. I couldn't find the history, looked like it had been deleted. He is addicted to porn so that's no surprise. The therapist asked repeatedly what type of porn it was so I guess this is important info  I tried to find it but couldn't. The phone is now being openly shared with me and there is no password on it. He is not going to counseling. When we went to marriage counseling every week the counselor gave me something to work on during the week, like be more positive, give him 5 compliments a day, that kind of thing. He was never given any task to work on, just me...that really messed with my head. She basically said, you're filthy rich and you don't work so "ain't nothing wrong with him". My husband said he did not want to watch her beat me up every week so we quit going. I put up with it because she told him to get rid of the girl and was very firm about him not being alone with women anymore. I'm not interested in a no contact letter, just that he gets her out of his office.


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## tj71 (Jul 20, 2010)

yogachick said:


> He said he wanted to see if he could still get a younger woman. He said he wanted to know if he still "had it". He seemed pretty happy with the marriage to me. I was the one that was frustrated, he's a little challenging due to being bipolar and having some other mental health issues. He actually seemed to fall out of love with me overnight, very eerie. My best friend said she could never have imagined he would have done this in a million years because he always looked like he was madly in love with me. People would say that all the time about us. We were always a very passionate couple. I really think it's just a mid-life crises plain and simple and I told him he's only allowed ONE LOL!!!


OMG my wife is the exact same way and people say that about us all the time too. She is also suffering from depression and stuff so over the years it feels like she can doubt out relationship at the drop of a hat. I have been on this f-ing rollercoaster for 18 years now.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

LOL, I always call it "Mr. Toads Wild Ride"


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Yogachick~

If you remember, I was one who was formerly disloyal, and I think in your instance there are two things at play here. My ex was also bipolar (possibly a different "kind") but he had some issues with mania and some sexually inappropriate behavior. I'm not a p-doc but I know that mania is tied to acting out sexually, so that was an issue that we had to deal with and address, and that may be somehow involved with your hubby and some of his "consequences." Namely, that one of the consequences of this emotional affair would be to recognize that his Bipolar affected his decision making and that he deal with that in his regular sessions with his p-doc. (I assume he is seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist on a regular basis?) 

However, the Bipolar notwithstanding, I'm going to open up to you and try to explain what the consequences are on the disloyal side of things. You see, prior to the affair, there are usually serious issues in the marriage and most disloyals have tried in their own way to indicate to their spouse that they can not take it anymore. For example, they talk but the spouse doesn't feel like talking or puts it off or doesn't listen. Often it is swept under the rug or met with outright hostility if it's even brought up. Sometimes, it's not "one issue" but more like gradually, over time, less and less time is spent together, less and less kind things are done to each other, more and more anger and tension and yelling creeps in, and who feels like making love when there is no love--just anger and blame? This is why we suggest to a loyal spouse that they take the time to also join in the rebuilding of their marriage, because if BOTH spouses don't work on changing, then it is very likely to happen again. 

As far as consequences, well I'd say that the usage of the word here sounds more like "punishment" than actual consequence, and here's why I say that. A natural consequence of the affair while it is active would be that family funds are not used to "fund" the affair. Another natural consequence would be that the affair is not kept secret, but it's brought right to the light of day and the truth is spoken out loud. Another natural consequence while the affair is active would be loss of time with the children because the disloyal is choosing to move out or spend all their free-time with their OP. Those are natural consequences because that means the things that naturally occur as a result of the choices the disloyal makes. But it sounds to me like you'd like something like "He has to apologize to me 1000 times and bring me roses every day for a year" and call that a consequence of choosing to step outside the marriage. 

That's actually not a consequence, but rather a punishment. A punishment means "you owe me" and in effect puts you in a Power Over position over him, because he would have a sword over his head. On the one hand, I understand why you'd feel angry and entitled, but on the other hand, this type of attitude just is not going to heal your marriage or rebuild a positive, loving, intimate relationship. The goal here is for BOTH of you to be doing things that feel unnatural and uncomfortable. On your side, it would be learning how to stop those behaviors that extinguish love (such as scorekeeping) and relearning how to start those behaviors that kindle love! That means learning how to be transparent yourself and letting him see the real you and your real struggles. On his side, it would mean learning those things, following up on counseling appointments or doctor appointments for his mental health issues, and giving you access to himself and his life and his whereabouts and his accounts so that you can verify that what he's saying is the truth. In other words he made the mess so he's going to have to put up with feeling smothered for a little while to regain your trust. 

However, the fact of the matter is that both of you had issues prior to the affair that made either one of you vulnerable. Now the question remains if you are brave enough to do what you expect of him--to take a good, hard, long look at yourself in the mirror, admit your issues, and actually put in some elbow grease to change! Whether he does or not, it will make you a better woman, wife and mother to face your problems and work on changing them, rather than avoiding them and blaming him.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

..."and who feels like making love when there is no love--just anger and blame?"... 

My husband and I were making passionate love on a regular basis, in fact, that's how I KNEW something was up.....like overnight the temperature dropped. My husband is very very handsome, charming, wealthy, gullible, and crazy. He has beautiful young women throwing themselves at him and he travels all over the world for business on a regular basis. I am giving everything I have and will continue to soul search and give more (if that's even possible because you can't get blood out of a turnip)....but I will try!!! I have made him #1 in my life and put him before all others, he has not done the same and I don't think he ever will for me or any other woman....he's just not wired that way. 

He's a man with megamillions of $. He can have anyone he wants; it's a lot for me to compete with. This very young woman was very smart, beautiful, and manipulative....he's only human.


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## Neverwouldhave guessed (May 5, 2010)

Well, if you really think the possibility of a healthy marriage is *zero* due to his personality - get out now. Life is too short and it sounds as though financially you will be OK.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

Neverwouldhave guessed said:


> Well, if you really think the possibility of a healthy marriage is *zero* due to his personality - get out now. Life is too short and it sounds as though financially you will be OK.


The possibility of a "perfect" marriage is zero. Healthy/smealthy, it is what it is, our oldest son inherited this and is bipolar as well....I can't run away from everyone who is flawed. I do have a lawyer lined up if he doesn't meet his deadline of getting rid of her by November. I will walk away with more money than I could spend in my lifetime....but that's not what it's really all about. * I want my family intact. *


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## stillINshock (Apr 9, 2009)

YC - I feel my situation is so similar in so many ways...
Think about it this way... You can't control who other people are. Getter the OW OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT by November - Yes a must. 

But otherwise... You can "keep him out of the cafe" meaning work to prevent him from meeting others - physically, and emotionally, but as you said, he's wired a certain way. The best thing you can do is be FABULOUS. Be the best person you can - physically & emotionally for him - kinda - but really for yourself. 

I always say my marriage - which is now much much better - is still and will always be on a month to month basis. I might be happily in it forever, or it might be over in a month. He's introduced this with his really awful behavior. Look, its a fact.

Or it might be amazing for ever. 
Please, its hard and it feels really really unfair constantly, but look at the 'positive' things you're doing are things that ultimately make YOU a FABULOUS person. 

He F's up again - he's got a majorly FABULOUS loss in his hand. See what I mean? And YOU will know you are giving it everything you can.

And once you feel the security build again, trust me, you'll be able to put your foot down on what really matters to you. My H sometimes falls in to old ways - makes me the brunt of his jokes - I used to put up with it... Now - no way. I jump on him and BECAUSE I'm giving him so much of what he needs now... he's listening. 

Make sense? 
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It sucks I know. 
Good luck... and just be F-ing FABULOUS.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

stillINshock said:


> Good luck... and just be F-ing FABULOUS.


I'm working on it Daaahling....and the facelift was a smashing success!!!.....a lot to go through when your heart is broken, but still a success!!! I HAVE to keep my sense of humour (we're not playing with a full deck here) or I am lost


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

This is going to be a difficult time as both of you recover. If you want the marriage to last you will have to look past the bad attitude. It will come with the package for the next several months. You don't want things to go back to the was things were. You want things to be better. It will take discipline. The pain will fade. He is likely to have few feelings for you right now. You need to come here to get your dose of reality. It is a long haul if you want to save your marriage.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

iamnottheonlyone said:


> This is going to be a difficult time as both of you recover. If you want the marriage to last you will have to look past the bad attitude. It will come with the package for the next several months. You don't want things to go back to the was things were. You want things to be better. It will take discipline. The pain will fade. He is likely to have few feelings for you right now. You need to come here to get your dose of reality. It is a long haul if you want to save your marriage.


Things seemed GREAT before this happened :scratchhead: that's the thing!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Obviously, they weren't. Most likely, for him, it had to do with not enough or good enough sex. It usually is for men.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

turnera said:


> Obviously, they weren't. Most likely, for him, it had to do with not enough or good enough sex. It usually is for men.


I don't think it was the sex, unless he wanted a younger body which I can't really do anything about. We would do it 3 times a day in 5 different positions and all over the house and in the swimming pool! I initiated it atleast half the time. I'm attractive (I used to model) and slim and in very good shape, I work out everyday and had a facelift but I'm 48 years old and I can't compete with an 18 year old porn star that does that for a living. He is addicted porn but refused to ever watch it with me, he is ashamed of watching it. The marriage counselor called him a sex addict if that's helpful. 

Since he met this girl our sex life changed for the worse and it has not recovered. We still do it but he told me he's not attracted to me any more, I just looked at him and he said it's not your looks it's your personality. WTF?? It's like an alien took over his body. I'm telling you this came out of the blue. If he wasn't happy with me before he met this girl, he sure didn't show it to me or anyone else. People would go on and on about the way he adored me!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That may be, but I still suggest that you weren't providing what he wanted, whatever that is. 

Now, I'm not saying it's your fault or anything. I'm just trying to get you to see what his mind was looking like when he made these decisions. In HIS mind, you weren't what he wanted. Could come from all sorts of things, the addiction, reclaimed youth, insecurity, need for ego stroking, life passing him by, not wanting to be considered old...so he needed something external to facilitate getting beyond those sources of anxiety or sadness or whatever it is.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

turnera said:


> That may be, but I still suggest that you weren't providing what he wanted, whatever that is.
> 
> Now, I'm not saying it's your fault or anything. I'm just trying to get you to see what his mind was looking like when he made these decisions. In HIS mind, you weren't what he wanted. Could come from all sorts of things, the addiction, reclaimed youth, insecurity, need for ego stroking, life passing him by, not wanting to be considered old...so he needed something external to facilitate getting beyond those sources of anxiety or sadness or whatever it is.


You hit the nail on the head Turnera! The only thing I think I can change is the ego stroking though and it's exactly what the marriage counselor told me to do and I am doing it. It feels completely wrong to stroke his ego in response to his misbehavior but I am doing it anyway because I care about him and I love him and I really do think he's going through a mid life crises and I think with him having mental health issues it's going to hit him harder than your average "normal" guy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Go to the bookstore and get the book _His Needs Her Needs_. It is an awesome description of how to keep your marriage (and husband or wife) happy. It will really help.


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## whynot (Apr 16, 2010)

yogachick, first off, I am sorry for what you are going through. It is very difficult pretending when you give compliments that you are supposed to give to someone who has wronged you. 

You be the better person and do what everyone here says... it sucks to not see your husband have to "pay" for his transgressions, but it is the reality, unless you take revenge which will only make you look worse. Your kids, you said, were taken away from you bc of this... that is what leads me to want you to consider the possibility that you have some aspect to your personality that others see as not nurturing or offputting... kids dont ever side with the cheating parent unless they viewed that parent as a cause for the other parents affair. I saw my mother as so cold, that I used to wish my dad would have an affair and secretly hoped he was when he wasnt wearing his wedding band anymore (he didnt, but I hoped).... how distant my mother must have acted to have a daughter view her that way? I never told her that, so perhaps your children see something you dont.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

whynot said:


> yogachick, first off, I am sorry for what you are going through. It is very difficult pretending when you give compliments that you are supposed to give to someone who has wronged you.
> 
> You be the better person and do what everyone here says... it sucks to not see your husband have to "pay" for his transgressions, but it is the reality, unless you take revenge which will only make you look worse. Your kids, you said, were taken away from you bc of this... that is what leads me to want you to consider the possibility that you have some aspect to your personality that others see as not nurturing or offputting... kids dont ever side with the cheating parent unless they viewed that parent as a cause for the other parents affair. I saw my mother as so cold, that I used to wish my dad would have an affair and secretly hoped he was when he wasnt wearing his wedding band anymore (he didnt, but I hoped).... how distant my mother must have acted to have a daughter view her that way? I never told her that, so perhaps your children see something you dont.


OH NO! My kids weren't taken from me. We get along great! Our oldest son always asks me why I stay with him because he can be really really difficult....I could tell you stories from the "Bipolar-Express" that would make your hair curl!!!


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## lisakifttherapy (Jul 31, 2007)

Part of the work of healing infidelity is the fine line between helping the partner who was cheated on recover emotionally and looking at what might have led to the affair in the first place. In my work with couples around this issue, I put most of the initial focus on creating a secure environment for the person who was cheated on (patience, sincere apologies, relationship repair by the other) and when it feels appropriate, start to shift to the underlying issues in the relationship. 

It's not about removing responsiblility from the partner who cheated at all - but the other bits must eventually be explored. For example, was there a build-up of resentment, lack of communication or other problems that went unaddressed?

Couples can come out stronger than they were before if they do this work in a heartfelt way - with the intention to save the relationship because it means that much to them.

However, if there's too much focus put on what led to the affair and not enough to the pain it has caused, this can be a difficult road.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

827Aug said:


> True to a point. But what about when she goes to counseling and the therapist tells her to praise him more. He cheats and his consequences are to have his wife grovel at his feet. Things are just messed up--and I honestly don't know what the answer is.


Dang, are we going to the same therapist because I'm experiencing the same thing. My wife is the one who messed around, yet in counseling sessions I'm the one being portrayed as the bad guy who all but locked the two of them in a hotel room in order to get busy. I'm the one who has to be more emotionally attached to her when that's the last thing I want to do after what went down. 

Like you, I'm at a crossroads in my marriage as well. You're not the only one going through....


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

Simon Phoenix said:


> Dang, are we going to the same therapist because I'm experiencing the same thing. My wife is the one who messed around, yet in counseling sessions I'm the one being portrayed as the bad guy who all but locked the two of them in a hotel room in order to get busy. I'm the one who has to be more emotionally attached to her when that's the last thing I want to do after what went down.
> 
> Like you, I'm at a crossroads in my marriage as well. You're not the only one going through....



I KNOW how bad it hurts and the therapists treatment of me just about made me lose my mind. My husband sat in there all charming and lying, Once when I interrupted one of his lies she YELLED at me for interrupting, then we'd get home and my husband would say "Yes I knew I was lying to her", WTF??? Insanity, I tell you!


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## Neverwouldhave guessed (May 5, 2010)

yogachick said:


> I KNOW how bad it hurts and the therapists treatment of me just about made me lose my mind. My husband sat in there all charming and lying, Once when I interrupted one of his lies she YELLED at me for interrupting, then we'd get home and my husband would say "Yes I knew I was lying to her", WTF??? Insanity, I tell you!


I seriously don't even have a response to this. He actually admitted (maybe flaunted??) that fact he was lying? Speechless.......


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

I think he felt bad about lying and me getting "beat up" (his words, not mine) every week by her. So he tried to make it better when we got home. I think he knew how I must be suffering. He told me he could not believe how mean she was to me. She told me in the beginning when I met with her alone that she favors the man so he doesn't feel ganged up on by two women, I just didn't know she would take it to such an extreme! 

Her philosophy was clearly "if your spouse cheated on you there must be something you did to cause it"...I call B.S.! *Maybe I just got old* and he (by his own admission, a narcissist) got schwinged by a smokin hot 27 year old that worshipped him and all his money and power.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

I feel like I'm seeing the same therapist too. Each week it is something new he wants me to change. My hackles raised this past session when he wanted me to change me personality. He doesn't like when I make jokes, make comments to ease situations. How I drive, how I cook, in fact I feel like there was not a single thing he liked about me. I just couldn't stand hearing one more word about me having to change so he would love me, pay attention to me, treat me like he stated he would. Ya he was the one who had the affair. Said it was a mistake, ended it, wanted to fix things. Yet here I sit waiting for him to step up to the plate on what he is willing to do to make it work. I'm dead tired of jumping through hoops just to feel loved. 29 yrs ago he married me for all the reasons he now wants changed. I am ready to tell him get lost.


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## 52flower (Mar 4, 2011)

Yeah, it doesn't seem fair, especially when they don't even wince. I know the best is to move on & take the control back of your happiness. Do they really notice or care that you've moved on & are happy?


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## SeekingSerenity (Jul 29, 2011)

I often wonder about female THerapists. We went to one and she did the same, beat me up and even hubby agreed she did more harm then good. We went 6 years ago when I found out hubby was having an ea which I thought was pa. I would ask Why did you do this? And she would ANSWER for him, I think he did it because he felt blah blah, didn't you? and he would say sure. I will not use a female therapist again because of that.


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## SeekingSerenity (Jul 29, 2011)

BTW he had a pa with her 6 years later.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

This feeling is why the concept of restitution is so important, IMO.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

turnera said:


> That may be, but I still suggest that you weren't providing what he wanted, whatever that is.
> 
> Now, I'm not saying it's your fault or anything. I'm just trying to get you to see what his mind was looking like when he made these decisions. In HIS mind, you weren't what he wanted. Could come from all sorts of things, the addiction, reclaimed youth, insecurity, need for ego stroking, life passing him by, not wanting to be considered old...so he needed something external to facilitate getting beyond those sources of anxiety or sadness or whatever it is.


Then he should have told her, so she could go out and find a boy toy, if she wanted to.
That is the thing about cheaters. They seem to think they are the only ones with options to get laid elsewhere or that they are the only ones with dissatisfactions in the marriage.
If this guy felt he was missing something, why not tell her, so she could seek out equal gratification.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

lisakifttherapy said:


> Part of the work of healing infidelity is the fine line between helping the partner who was cheated on recover emotionally and looking at what might have led to the affair in the first place. In my work with couples around this issue, I put most of the initial focus on creating a secure environment for the person who was cheated on (patience, sincere apologies, relationship repair by the other) and when it feels appropriate, start to shift to the underlying issues in the relationship.
> 
> It's not about removing responsiblility from the partner who cheated at all - but the other bits must eventually be explored. For example, was there a build-up of resentment, lack of communication or other problems that went unaddressed?
> 
> ...


Presumably, when you do address the pre-A issues, you include those caused soley by the cheater,as well as the percieved deficiencies of the BS.
It always amazes me that some folks simply ignore the fact that most studies show that the cheater was the one that was less invested in the marriage in the first place and caused the lion's share of the pre A problems(not saying you do this).
But, in reading this stuff, it seems that many folks just buy into the veracity and validity of the cheater's complaints without taking inot account that the complaints are coming from someone who has already demonstrated a lack of integrity, poor communications skills, poor problem solving skills and a lack of empathy. 
I am not saying that the BS does not have some responsibility, but I would bet that in most cases the 50/50 contribution cliche is not accurate and the cheater caused most of the issues in the marriage.After all, he or she is, by definition, a liar, selfish and lacks communication skills.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And what do you represent? Godliness? Purity? Perfect actions?

AS I SAID, your spouse's cheating is not your fault. 

BUT...

If you go around pretending that your cheating spouse was an evil vile person while you were a saint, you will find yourself defending an untenable position.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

yogachick said:


> Thanks for the replies, I'm getting it...kind of. But still there are no consequences for him that any of you mentioned. Yes we can all work on ourselves (whether our spouses cheated or didn't) and in the end it is really going to benefit us. But what are his consequences? He has not a shed a tear, he got to be adored and worshipped by a beautiful young woman half his age and then his wife found out about it and was told by the marriage counselor to compliment him more. Got it, doing it even though it feels wrong.
> 
> What are his consequences?


It is wrong, get another MC. What are you supposed to compliment? He's a liar and a cheat, he needs to clean up his act so compliments are appropriate. Is the MC male? The only reason that I stayed with my DS was his remorse, well that and the fact that I didn't want to hand him over to the b***h. If he had shown none, I would have kicked his a$$ out and took every cent I could get out of him.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

yogachick said:


> ..."and who feels like making love when there is no love--just anger and blame?"...
> 
> My husband and I were making passionate love on a regular basis, in fact, that's how I KNEW something was up.....like overnight the temperature dropped. My husband is very very handsome, charming, wealthy, gullible, and crazy. He has beautiful young women throwing themselves at him and he travels all over the world for business on a regular basis. I am giving everything I have and will continue to soul search and give more (if that's even possible because you can't get blood out of a turnip)....but I will try!!! I have made him #1 in my life and put him before all others, he has not done the same and I don't think he ever will for me or any other woman....he's just not wired that way.
> 
> He's a man with megamillions of $. He can have anyone he wants; it's a lot for me to compete with. This very young woman was very smart, beautiful, and manipulative....he's only human.


See an attorney, you are not a door mat. Some of these female MC,s who advise you to wrap your self in plastic and come to the door with a rose in your teeth after betrayal, are taking money under false pretenses. If what you say is true, he feels no remorse and you can expect more of the same in the future. All these sugar plums that he is getting courtesy of the MC are damn near guaranteeing it.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

turnera said:


> And what do you represent? Godliness? Purity? Perfect actions?
> 
> AS I SAID, your spouse's cheating is not your fault.
> 
> ...


Perfection is not a prerequisite for the expectation of adherence to one's sacred vows. MY vows did not include an exception for if my spouse was less than Godly.
Look, it is time to face the facts(at least my opinion on them ). Many, many cheaters are, in fact, badly damaged, immoral people. I submit that very few people with consciences could do this cheating, long term,and pull it off so well. It would eat at them. Apparently, it does not with folks who do this, as they continue and seem to sleep like babies.
Maybe, just maybe, they are fundamentally wired differently.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe. But some of the most beneficial, insightful, smart posters on threads I visit are FWWs. Just maybe they learn from their mistake and turn a corner.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I also think this is a great question. What are their consequences? All we see is them going off on their merry little ways, seemingly happy. My divorce was 5 months ago now and still no apology, still no signs of regret or remorse from my ex. Nothing at all. But then again, he's living away from his family, away from his children. It's not only us he lost but his mother, sisters and brother-in-laws no longer have contact with him because his lies destroyed their relationship. He left our 5 bedroom home to stay in a one room efficency apartment in which he had to share a bathroom with other tenants. 65% of his paycheck now goes to me for support payments. Even if he's not suffering because he does not have a conscience, he is still paying consequences for his actions.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yoga, have you given him any consequences?Or you have just stood by his side and told him no matter what you will take him back?

That MC someone mentioned who started answering for the cheating husband was way out of line. I would have fired her on the spot. Sh!tty counselor.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

turnera said:


> Maybe. But some of the most beneficial, insightful, smart posters on threads I visit are FWWs. Just maybe they learn from their mistake and turn a corner.


Yes, but , IMO, the FWWs that frequent sites like this and take responsibility and show remorse, seem to me a very small% of cheaters. In talking to hundereds of men who have had their wives cheat on them, only a few have had remorseful, empathetic WWs.
Folks can and do learn and change. But, the vast majority want to blame others and cling to their lame justifications.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Yes, but , IMO, the FWWs that frequent sites like this and take responsibility and show remorse, seem to me a very small% of cheaters. In talking to hundereds of men who have had their wives cheat on them, only a few have had remorseful, empathetic WWs.
> Folks can and do learn and change. But, the vast majority want to blame others and cling to their lame justifications.


 You sound pretty down on women, but men still out cheat women by about 60 to 40 %. Men though the ages have been taught by their male dominated cultures that it was perfectly alright for them to cheat and or have mistresses. If women had behaved the same, they would have been jailed, stoned to death, stripped and shaved etc. Men have always made elaborate justifications for cheating, and believe that their libido trumps any vows they may have taken. Now that women are beginning to cheat in similar ways and numbers the male of the species is beginning to know how it feels. Two wrongs don't make a right, and it's is not a good development that women are beginning to see cheating in much the same way as men traditionally have, but it is neither fair nor accurate to see infidelity as rampant principally among females. Men still have the edge in that, along with an insufferable sense of entitlement.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

A very small edge, Oaks, with the women in the younger demographic, actually, outcheating men. Overall, men have a slight edge, but it is only due to the fact that the older generation of women is so much more faithful. Younger than 45, women cheat more.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The reality is it's not as rampant as we think, with 28 percent of married men and 18 percent of married women admitting to having a sexual liaison, the survey found. 

Smith conducted the highly respected study “American Sexual Behavior,” a poll of 10,000 people over two decades. The study found that 22 percent of married men and 15 percent of married women have cheated at least once 

Nearly 20 percent of survey takers in committed relationships have romantically kissed someone else, a breach that 83 percent of people consider to be cheating. And 15 percent of men (though only 7 percent of women) have engaged in online sex or sexual Webcamming, which 66 percent of people consider to be cheating.

Six in 10 cheaters believe they totally got away with their affair and another one in 10 felt their partner was suspicious, but never found out for sure. Few cheaters — only 2 percent — were busted in the act. And even when confronted with a partner's suspicions, only 6 percent of both men and women confessed to having an affair.

The survey did find some common scenarios, however. Cheating tends to happen well into the relationship — especially in the three- to five-year zone — by a man who is dissatisfied with his sex life or a woman who feels emotionally deprived. The new lover is most often a friend or co-worker, and the typical fling lasts less than a week. 

Many thrive on the excitement they get from a fling (30 percent overall), but men and women are generally prowling for different things. Men want more sex (44 percent), more satisfying sex (38 percent) and variety (40 percent). Women's motives range from the need for more emotional attention (40 percent) to being reassured of their desirability (33 percent) or falling in love with someone else (20 percent). 

Women say they would be more upset if their partner fell in love with someone else than if their partner had sex with that person (65 percent, compared to 47 percent of men), but men say they’d be more distressed by their partner having a sexual affair than falling in love (53 percent, compared to 35 percent of women).

infidelity is a serious problem that often leads to divorce or damaged relationships — 19 percent of people who were cheated on ended the relationship right away and 22 percent eventually broke up because they couldn’t get over the betrayal. Sexual infidelity played a role in just over half of divorces

Cheating hearts: Who's doing it and why - Health - Sexual health - msnbc.com


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Another big factor in the rise in female infidelity is the Internet. Sexual infidelity often starts with emotional infidelity, and digital technologies offer an abundance of opportunity for emotional (and thrilling) connections: The return of an ex, a workplace flirtation, a Facebook friendship that becomes more than "just friends." Women are extremely susceptible to “emotional infidelity,” which starts as friendship, often with colleagues or seemingly harmless online relationships, and slowly progresses to something more. A gradual blurring of the lines between friendship and deeper intimacy draws even happily partnered people into relationships they never saw coming.

Female infidelity: It's different from the guys – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

anohter thing to consider is the reliablity of the studies, since it is all self reporting.
As far as the 50% divorce due to infidelity deal, it may well be higher, but with no-fault in place, never pled. Not sure if they got the stats from pleadings, though.
This is not a gender war to me, but it was eyeopening in that i was completely shocked by the prevalence among women. I had known men seemed prone to it(although no where near as much as i found). But, the younger demographic women are said to be even more prone than the guys. 
Regardless, whoever does it is an abuser, IMO.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Arnold said:


> A very small edge, Oaks, with the women in the younger demographic, actually, outcheating men. Overall, men have a slight edge, but it is only due to the fact that the older generation of women is so much more faithful. Younger than 45, women cheat more.


As I said, women are now taking on the traditional behaviors of the male. It is not a good thing, but it is fairly recent. Men still have the edge, small as it might be. Some ( many ) of the women who cheat have a history of abandonment by a cheating father figure. They are left with the resolve to play the role of the hammer, rather that of the nail, in future relationships. That was the case with the woman who invaded my marriage. My H was 20+ years older than she ( father figure ) and she got back at the mother figure too( me ). She hates her mother and blames her for her father's cheating ( go figure ). Man! women just get S**t and shoved in it, in this man's world. Try to remember that. It does not justify this behavior, but it does put it in perspective. I don't think for one minute that, this justified the little bi***'s predatory ways, quite the contrary, and I wouldn't urinate on her if she was on fire, but I do understand where it came from. I would like to think that people will become more aware of the generational damage the occurs as a result of cheating, but I'm not going to hold my breath. It certainly is not a new problem and the responsibility for the damage it has caused is still not equally shared. Entitlement is an ugly assumption that still facilitates the male's cheating behavior, and men are masters of compartmentalization. Women have generally come by that feeling as a result of mistreatment or abandonment. Men just seem to feel that sexual adventure is their right by virtue of the y chromosome. My own loving H told me ( post d day), that his vows were just "rules" that could be disregarded under certain circumstances, and that he never questioned that view, because all the males he ever knew felt the same about it, his own father had been unfaithful to his mom. Had I known this, I don't think I would have married him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's why I recommend being friends before lovers. As friends, with no ulterior motive, you can be yourself, be honest, show all your warts. If you marry someone straight out of dating, chances are great that they never really showed you the 'real' them.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Oaks, we come to this from entirely different perspectives.re whose world it is. For every advantage you can point to for men, I could come up with one where women have been given a better shake in life. 
Both genders cheat about equally, now that the opportunties are there for women. And , the entitlement attirude you allude to in men, is every bit as prevalent among women, IMO. 
I think we agree that, regardlesso fwhich gender is doing it and for whar reasons, it is cruel, abusive, selfish and unfair.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Arnold said:


> Both genders cheat about equally,


22 percent of married men and 15 percent of married women have cheated at least once

Still a predominance of men over women.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yeah, but that is but one study. And, it does not take into account that men over 65, withthe advent of Viagra etc. are skewing things, as the women from that genetation seem to still adhere to fidelity at a higher rate.
But, if you drop down to the under 50 set, it is almost the same.
Two fastest growing cheating segments,%wise,are old guys and younger women. The middle folks remain about constant.
Ever wonder why shows likee Cougartown,. Desperate Houswives and Sex in the City thrive? Who is their target audience?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

link it


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Just google infidelity statistics, almost. There are myriad studies.
All the valid ones were done by men, right Oaks?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I did google them. The one I cited was the most scientifically based I could find. I believe, of around 70,000 random participants, from about 5 years ago - more than recent enough to reflect changing demographics and more than substantial enough a random sampling to be a pretty good pulse of the people. And the second poll, cited in this story, was even more random and covered 10,000 people. 

You're just trying to prove that women are more (at least AS) harmful, predatory, despite decades of psychological studies to the contrary. I assume, to feel better about your life?


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

No, just to dispel many long held , erroneous beliefs, tunera. Studies show women kill their kids more often, abuse the elderly more frequenly, cheat as much if not more under age 45, get lighter sentences for virtually every crime, including preying sexually on minors.
I feel okay about my life, but I don't subscribe to a lot of the BS re women being the "gentler sex" .


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Arnold said:


> No, just to dispel many long held , erroneous beliefs, tunera. Studies show women kill their kids more often, abuse the elderly more frequenly, cheat as much if not more under age 45, get lighter sentences for virtually every crime, including preying sexually on minors.
> I feel okay about my life, but I don't subscribe to a lot of the BS re women being the "gentler sex" .


I would like to see those "studies". In none of the crimes you have mentioned do women exceed men. When women do kill their children, mental illness is often the cause. When men do, it is more likely to be revenge and control. The prisons are 97% male, and when women do find their way in front of a judge they are more likely to get the book thrown at them, because good girls don't end up in front of a judge in the first place. The rate of women praying on minors is vanishing small compared to the rate of men doing it.That is just the truth. You can sight any bogus study you like to support a prejudice, if you like but it does not alter reality. Did you know that the holocaust was a hoax?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Arnold said:


> No, just to dispel many long held , erroneous beliefs, tunera. Studies show women kill their kids more often, abuse the elderly more frequenly, cheat as much if not more under age 45, get lighter sentences for virtually every crime, including preying sexually on minors.
> I feel okay about my life, but I don't subscribe to a lot of the BS re women being the "gentler sex" .


 Links please?

Otherwise, you're just a disgruntled man, as I said.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Spare me the ad hominem attacks and support your assertions, as you ask me to do.
Once someone goes ad hominem, you know they are grasping.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> I would like to see those "studies". In none of the crimes you have mentioned do women exceed men. When women do kill their children, mental illness is often the cause. When men do, it is more likely to be revenge and control. The prisons are 97% male, and when women do find their way in front of a judge they are more likely to get the book thrown at them, because good girls don't end up in front of a judge in the first place. The rate of women praying on minors is vanishing small compared to the rate of men doing it.That is just the truth. You can sight any bogus study you like to support a prejudice, if you like but it does not alter reality. Did you know that the holocaust was a hoax?


Do your own research, Misandry?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Arnold said:


> Spare me the ad hominem attacks and support your assertions, as you ask me to do.
> Once someone goes ad hominem, you know they are grasping.


 No links?

Alrighty then. Generalizations.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

yogachick said:


> I have been told to improve things at home, to clean up "my side of the street".....isn't this rewarding his bad behavior?


Who told you to do that? If it is a MC then you need to get another one. If you are working at reconciliation he needs to do the heavy lifting. You are responsible 50%/50% for the marriage issues. He is 100% responsible for the affair. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Where are yours? Pot meet kettle.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Read the last sentence of the CNN article you posted, turnera. I'm paraphrasing but it says something like "Infidelity. We are learning that it is a game that she is just as likely to play".


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

turnera said:


> No links?
> 
> Alrighty then. Generalizations.


Take a look at the very study you cite. It concludes that younger women are just as likely as men to cheat. The women over 65 skew the overall stats. Take them out and it is just about even.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Do your own research, Misandry?


Arnold, some of us work in social services, corrections, mental heath counseling, and the judicial system etc, These issues are part of our daily experience and educational base, and we know the stats. I haven't pulled a single one out of my butt to support my prejudices. I don't have any particular bias against men, but I do against cheating. Men have been the ones doing the greater part of it up until now, and they still have the edge, period.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Oaks, I have tried over 500 cases, many criminal. I see the disparity in sentencing. My female clients benefitted from it.
I once spoke at length to a woman judge who had been on the bench for decades. She told me that the single most unreported crime or underprosecuted crime she sees in the system is adult female sexual predation on juvenile males. She did this without any prompting from me.
Women are no more noble or gentile than men. They are human, some evil, some good. Just like guys.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Oaks, I have tried over 500 cases, many criminal. I see the disparity in sentencing. My female clients benefitted from it.
> I once spoke at length to a woman judge who had been on the bench for decades. She told me that the single most unreported crime or underprosecuted crime she sees in the system is adult female sexual predation on juvenile males. She did this without any prompting from me.
> Women are no more noble or gentile than men. They are human, some evil, some good. Just like guys.


Who says they are Arnold?, but they are not worse and in some cases a hell of a lot better. If the judge told you this, she has a problem and should get off the bench. I've had occasion to go before a female commisioner who was a complete woman hater. These types hate their moms and they throw the book at females. As a lawyer you know that you don't come to conclusions on the basis of hearsay, even when you get it from a" judge". what we were talking about was statistics, not hearsay; but you know Arnold, you can believe whatever you want. I do thank you for all your attention to my posts.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

No problem. It is always interesting to hear another perspective, even if there is no basis for it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Arnold said:


> Take a look at the very study you cite. It concludes that younger women are just as likely as men to cheat. The women over 65 skew the overall stats. Take them out and it is just about even.


 What, this?


> cheating is an equal opportunity sport, one that women are just as likely as men to play.


That was the opinion of one counselor. Hardly statistically binding.

If you want to start your own thread to prove that women are harlots, do it; I'm done taking over someone else's thread.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I was referring to the study itself, not the CNNarticle with the quote in it. Check it out.


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