# Wife No Longer Cares



## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

I’ve been reading through this forum for a while but now I need your thoughts. Thanks in advance for any help you may offer. Forgive this being my first post.

Wife and I (both 49 years old) have been married 21 years. Three kids 17, 14 & 7. She’s been a SAHM for most of the past 17 years. We’ve been growing distant over the past several years. Going through the motions. Taking each other for granted. Dwindling sex life. Little affection shown towards each other. But no big fights or infidelity. Just kind of a roommate situation. We are both in good shape physically but financially, we’ve got a lot of debt and live paycheck to paycheck. I have a career but just don’t make enough to cover all our bills. She has been looking for a job and interviewed a few times but hasn’t been successful in getting a job yet. I know this is a major source of stress in our marriage. Oldest one goes off to college next year. Still figuring out how to pay for that. Our marriage has been on autopilot for years but over the past 12 months, our problems have really come to a head.

My wife has always been an attractive woman with a good personality. But since about a year ago she really started taking better care of herself and paying more attention to her appearance. Changed her hair color and gets a color and cut every two months. Eating better, paying more attention to her weight. She was never overweight by much just a couple of extra pounds after the kids were born. Goes running on a regular basis. She’s also wearing makeup and nicer clothes. Not the sweats and oversized t-shirt wardrobe that I’d grown used to seeing. I was thrilled that she was getting herself into better shape and looking sharper and gave her affirmations regularly. 

She has also has been learning how to play the guitar and is really into new music and gear. Bought her own guitar so she didn’t have to play one of mine. Bought her own amp (nicer than either of mine and I’ve been playing since college). She’s also started going to concerts to hear live music, something she never expressed interest in during the first 19 years or so of our marriage. Now she’s all about it. Facebook friend groups with musicians, band fan pages, music history, all that.

About a month ago, wife tells me that her feelings towards me have changed. She’s no longer in love with me. Doesn’t care about me. Doesn’t see me as being a part of her future. Says she doesn’t want to be just a wife and mother any longer. She’s not sure about what she wants in the future but says things have to change. Says she’d be happy just seeing the kids on a part-time basis. Doesn’t care if she sees them on holidays. Seems like she wants to go back to the life of a single girl.

We gave it a couple of weeks of thinking and searching our hearts and talked about all this. Nothing seems to get answered regarding what she wants or how she can fall back in love with me. A lot of “I don’t knows”. She also, I believe, is intentionally acting certain ways to punish/hurt me. I’m a talkative type so she deliberately gives me the silent treatment when she’s upset about something. We have had some trust issues in the past that I thought we’d addressed thoroughly and corrected, yet over the past 12 months, I’ve caught her occasionally lying to me about where she is, what her plans are, spending, etc. and it reopens the same issues regarding trust and transparency. Last week she lied and said she was out with her sisters shopping but instead she left them early to come back to town and go by herself to a club to drink and listen to live music. I didn’t find out until the next morning. 

She refuses to include me in group outings with her friends even when the other husbands and boyfriends are invited. It pisses me off when she goes out with the group to do something I would also enjoy, but I am told that I am not invited and she needs this time out with her friends to be without me so she can relax. Also, she refuses to let me see her Facebook page though she vehemently denies that there is anything incriminating to be found there. I want transparency in our marriage, she prefers to keep secrets from each other.

So last night it came down to more talking and more arguing. Her telling me once again that she doesn’t know if she’ll ever have feelings for me. I’m still angry about having to sit home with the kids while she was out partying Saturday. I’m still having trust issues. I told her that I wanted to see her Facebook page. She said “No, make your own page and I’ll friend you.” I said no, I want to see yours. She said no. I can’t believe that the woman I married and have supported and loved for the past 21 years would pick Facebook over me.

I can’t trust her, don’t get included in her plans, and am being told that I’m unlovable to her. She swears that she’s not having an affair or looking for one. I believe her. I’ve checked up on her a little and found no sign of another man. She just has trouble with the truth. She’d lie even when the truth would be more convenient. Can’t understand it but she has a sister that is the exact same. But the damndest thing is to me, it would make more sense if she were leaving me for another man. That I could understand. But to throw away a marriage and break up a home over nothing seems unthinkable. I guess she thinks the unknown is more attractive than what she has right now and is willing to take a shot on it.

I’m talking to an attorney today. I don’t want to but I feel like a chump sitting at home with the kids on the weekends while she’s out on the town. If she hasn’t cheated already then it’s probably heading that way. Right now all of this is devastating to me. I go back and forth between sadness and anger. Anybody ever have their wife fall back in love with them? Does it last or is it just a temporary reconciliation? Is a request to see your spouse’s Facebook page unreasonable?


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

she is cheating on you. Or at least trying to. You got so many red flags.

Follow her or pay a PI one night she is out and you will know.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

fishcamp said:


> over the past 12 months, I’ve caught her occasionally lying to me about where she is, what her plans are, spending, etc. and it reopens the same issues regarding trust and transparency. Last week she lied and said she was out with her sisters shopping but instead she left them early to come back to town and go by herself to a club to drink and listen to live music. I didn’t find out until the next morning.


What reasons do you think she could have for lying to you about where she is and who she's with?

Besides of course, that she's cheating on you.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Maybe she's going through a mid-life crisis. It's pretty disturbing to hear you say that she no longer wants to be a mother anymore. Wow. It sounds like she wants to be single and not have to "report" to anyone. She doesn't want responsibilities. I would have pointed to a possible affair but since you're convinced that is not an issue. . . . 

Has she ever told you that you were a controlling person? Just wondering what she would say about you and maybe that's the reason behind the whole Facebook issue. FB is dumb. What's so hard about starting your own profile and friending her? It's not hard to do.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

You know what's up. There's another dude. You need to investigate and verify it. Trust me, there's another dude she's doing all that for/with.

Don't be passive about it.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Fish,

You are doing the right thing right now seeing an attorney. You need to find out your rights because with her behavior it does not look promising. When she tells you she is not having an affair not sure why you believe her. You already know she is going places where she will be "hit on" without you around and she has told you she does not want to be with you. The old saying is

'BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY TO YOU"

Now if you feel the need to get some facts you only have a few options since if she is refusing you to even see her FB page she is going to volunteer NOTHING. So you can do any of the following
(1) install a VAR in her car. Your attorney will tell you not to but with her not having a job it is highly unlikely she is going to take any legal action. If you do this, you will most likely know who she is talking to and if she is seeing someone very quickly. She will be talking to girlfriends or OM for sure.
(2) file for divorce. They that will call her bluff and make it clear that she has a finite time limit to either reconcile or go on her merry way with no job and a greatly reduced lifestyle. It make it REAL for her. You can stop a divorce any time you want to, but right now you are playing Mr. Mom while she goes out and plays. And by the way, these so called mutual friends of yours are NOT your friends or they would not be comfortable with her doing all these activities without you with no explanation. So do not be so sure one of these husbands is not her OM.
(3) after you get the attorney done, tell her she needs to take a polygraph in order for you to continue on with her because if she is having an affair you are done. Her reaction will tell you a lot even though you know she wil refuse. She obviously does not want you to know what she is doing or who she is doing it with, and is lying to you about a lot of things.

At this point if you assume she is not cheating you are being naive and denial is your worst enemy right now. Get yourself out of limbo by refusing to play Mr. Nice Guy. What is called the "pick me game" rarely works well and right now she is in total control of the narrative. That needs to chance and that can only happen if you take action and stop being on defense.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

if you have been perusing this site for a while, you probably know most of the right answers.

1. you have every right to ask to see her fb page, so that means she IS hiding something.
she will probably scrub or clean it up if you decide to join.

2. she sounds like the classic walk away wife. she wants her cake and eat it too.
she is very immature if she is willing to walk away from her kids. 
it's one thing for a woman to walk away from her hb, especially if the marriage has been bad,
but for a woman to be willing to walk away from her kids shows great selfishness and immaturity.

3. i wouldn't venture quit yet to say she is cheating, but i would say that's the direction she wants to go.

i'm sorry my friend, but i don't see any easy answers, unless she suddenly wakes up and grows up.

what is your role in the marriage deteriorating? have you taken her for granted? any abuse, verbal or otherwise?
what was she like before the marriage downslide and how long has it been downsliding?

none of the above excuses her selfish behavior, but you must be introspective and consider what you own in this the downslide of this marriage.
for the betterment of yourself.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

caruso said:


> What reasons do you think she could have for lying to you about where she is and who she's with?
> 
> Besides of course, that she's cheating on you.


She lies about it beforehand so I won't ask her any questions or express interest in also going if its something I enjoy. Afterwards, when her stories don't add up and I ask questions, she will reluctantly trickle truth me details of where she was and what she was doing. Never expresses remorse, just kind of an "oh well, deal with it" attitude. 

She says she is just attempting to escape the wife/mother world and have unencumbered fun with friends. Swears there is no other man. Of course, that's what they all say.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Looking at this from your wife's point of view:

She has been a stay at home mum for 17 years. Maybe she feels all used up and has nothing more to give. I can relate. I have been home for 14 years and I am tired of taking care of the same floor, the kids and having no body to talk to. I feel sometimes like I have nothing left to give and I am tired of being a mum. I just want to do something for myself. Which my H always encourage but I am tired of hobbies too. I just want to get out and meet peo[le . So I got myself a job recently. Thank God my marriage is good and we managed to stay in love with each other. 

The issue here is: the lying and not keeping you involved with all that is going on in her life. You wife has told you she does not love you. That is a huge red flag. It's flying in the wind. She is distancing herself from your marriage and your life. 

I think she is seeing herself without the attachment of family and how much fun she can have without you guys. She is in for a reality check. 

Get the older kids to babysit and go out with her this weekend. Now I am all for privacy but I believe no one in a marriage should have that much privacy. We should all have equal access to everyone's password etc. I would ask again for her to show you her FB page.

Seems like she got a bad case of midlife crisis and the "grass is greener"...

Start being proactive and don't be the guy who stays home while his wife is having fun. Until the kids are big enough to take care of themselves, she is still partially responsible for them.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Maybe she's going through a mid-life crisis. It's pretty disturbing to hear you say that she no longer wants to be a mother anymore. Wow. It sounds like she wants to be single and not have to "report" to anyone. She doesn't want responsibilities. I would have pointed to a possible affair but since you're convinced that is not an issue. . . .
> 
> Has she ever told you that you were a controlling person? Just wondering what she would say about you and maybe that's the reason behind the whole Facebook issue. FB is dumb. What's so hard about starting your own profile and friending her? It's not hard to do.


Just don't want to set up a Facebook account for myself. We have a lot of mutual friends, family members and interest groups that are on FB and I would like to see what they say every once in a while. Thing is, she never had a problem with me looking at and posting stuff on her page until about a year ago. Now its strictly off-limits. And wouldn't she be able to hide posts from me if I were only a friend vs. actually looking at her page?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sorry you are here.

Your marriage does not look promising. Some switch has tripped in her feminine brain. It IS Mid-Life-Crisis. She waited longer than most people. This acrid coffee has been brewing in her pot for a long time. This is not a rash decision [weight loss, appearance upgrade, etc]. 

Home life for her is boring and unfulfilling. She is willing to leave YOU and the Children? Powerful brew this. Someone close to her may have turned her to this exiting genuflexion to personal freedom. Or it could be the daily Soap Operas, Reality shows, etc. that some SAHW's watch. It does not matter......she has morphed. Your butterfly has morphed into a Luna Moth.....out the window, into the Moonlight and the hoppy Taverns she flits. Some distant wolf calls out her name....she has answered the call.

I would let her go.....Why do detective work to find out she has closed her mind to her loving family and opened her legs to "Others"? Too painful...this.

Go to an attorney...file for divorce.

Note:...she is upfront about her intentions.....not playing good loving wife with you while she goes behind your back and does "her thing". She is doing this out in the open....save any untold cheating on her part. 
Still hurts, still hurts....ahhh yes. 

She plays....while you pay with your money and your shrinking self-respect. Cut her off from all finances. Do not pay for anything more. No more fun money for her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You said that you'd been operating as roommates for a long time. 

What steps did you take to change that? That kind of thing is only going to go on for so long before something happens....either someone blows up, cheats, or leaves.

It's possible she sees 50 approaching and realizes she's past the midpoint of life, and she's spent 17 years doing for others. And getting a job after all that time is not easy. 

So if you've been roommates she likely doesn't consider you a core part of her life. 

I agree that if she's not cheating that's probably where she's heading, but I also think to focus on it to the exclusion of the roommate situation will only get you divorced faster.

So once again, what have you done over the years to correct the roommate situation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

jorgegene said:


> if you have been perusing this site for a while, you probably know most of the right answers.
> 
> what is your role in the marriage deteriorating? have you taken her for granted? any abuse, verbal or otherwise?
> what was she like before the marriage downslide and how long has it been downsliding?
> ...


Sure, there are periods when I've taken her for granted over the last 21 years. Spent more time at work than necessary telling myself that I was providing for my family. Getting lazy and spending too much time just hanging out at home instead of providing new adventures for the family. Worrying too much about money. I've been complacent. But during the last couple of years I have tried to get her to do things with me. She just doesn't seem to enjoy spending time with me. ME: "Let's go to a concert this weekend." HER: "We can't afford it." The following weekend she goes on an outing with her friends while I stay home. HER: "I need to get more exercise." ME: "Great, let's go to the gym and work out." HER: "Nah, don't feel like it." One of her friends invites her to some exercise based activity (rollerblading, paddleboarding, etc.) and she's excited and a willing participant.

First ten years of marriage - GREAT. Lots of travel, fun, sex, closeness. But spent too much money - now we are literally paying for it. After children were born, she seemed to switch all in to the mommy role and completely out of the wife role. We even discussed it and I told her that I was starting to miss her and she shouldn't put all her eggs in the mother basket. One day the kids will be grown and gone and then it'll be too late to try to be a wife after such a long period of neglect.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> Just don't want to set up a Facebook account for myself. We have a lot of mutual friends, family members and interest groups that are on FB and I would like to see what they say every once in a while. Thing is, she never had a problem with me looking at and posting stuff on her page until about a year ago. Now its strictly off-limits. And wouldn't she be able to hide posts from me if I were only a friend vs. actually looking at her page?


I think it's ridiculous that you can't set up your own FB account if you want to see what family and friends say. My hb and I not only have our own accounts but we're not even friends on it. I guess he could look at mine if he had to but frankly I don't see how he's entitled to monitor every little comment I make to my high school friends, nor do I think he wishes to do so. I know I could care less what kind of football comments he makes to his friends.

If she's cheating then access to her FB page where all of her family and friends can see isn't the best place to carry on. 

She could probably hide posts from you but that's something she'd likely slip eventually. And you're much more likely to catch her cheating through her phone or tracking her whereabouts.


Besides, if she wanted to be smart she'd male a separate account and have her bf's there. How will you know about that?

Ask a mutual friend of she posts anything questionable.

On a side note I can't stand it when couples use the same page. I don't know wbo I'm talking to and I don't know who posted stuff. It's up there with couples who are FB friends but are constantly going on about how much they love each other. Geez.....get a room. 

Sorry, just my personal rant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fishcamp said:


> Sure, there are periods when I've taken her for granted over the last 21 years. Spent more time at work than necessary telling myself that I was providing for my family. Getting lazy and spending too much time just hanging out at home instead of providing new adventures for the family. Worrying too much about money. I've been complacent. But during the last couple of years I have tried to get her to do things with me. She just doesn't seem to enjoy spending time with me. ME: "Let's go to a concert this weekend." HER: "We can't afford it." The following weekend she goes on an outing with her friends while I stay home. HER: "I need to get more exercise." ME: "Great, let's go to the gym and work out." HER: "Nah, don't feel like it." One of her friends invites her to some exercise based activity (rollerblading, paddleboarding, etc.) and she's excited and a willing participant.
> 
> First ten years of marriage - GREAT. Lots of travel, fun, sex, closeness. But spent too much money - now we are literally paying for it. After children were born, she seemed to switch all in to the mommy role and completely out of the wife role. We even discussed it and I told her that I was starting to miss her and she shouldn't put all her eggs in the mother basket. One day the kids will be grown and gone and then it'll be too late to try to be a wife after such a long period of neglect.


Unfortunately, if that comes to pass, you will be left with the debt, and be expected to support her for the foreseeable future, whether you are married or not.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Unfortunately, if that comes to pass, you will be left with the debt, and be expected to support her for the foreseeable future, whether you are married or not.


He said she was looking for a job. 

It's not easy to do after 17 years at home and pushing 50.

Spouses who go along with stay at homes need to keep this in mind. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think it's ridiculous that you can't set up your own FB account if you want to see what family and friends say. My hb and I not only have our own accounts but we're not even friends on it. I guess he could look at mine if he had to but frankly I don't see how he's entitled to monitor every little comment I make to my high school friends, nor do I think he wishes to do so. I know I could care less what kind of football comments he makes to his friends.
> 
> If she's cheating then access to her FB page where all of her family and friends can see isn't the best place to carry on.
> 
> ...


I'm with you. That's why I don't understand the big deal with seeing someone's FB page. People seem split over this issue. Its not even about FB, its about transparency. My kids play on my phone and it is always free and open. She could look at my texts/calls/apps anytime. No big deal. But since we've already had issues with her lying to me, the whole secrecy thing bugs the hell out of me. You don't hold an AA meeting in a liquor store.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> I'm with you. That's why I don't understand the big deal with seeing someone's FB page. People seem split over this issue. Its not even about FB, its about transparency. My kids play on my phone and it is always free and open. She could look at my texts/calls/apps anytime. No big deal. But since we've already had issues with her lying to me, the whole secrecy thing bugs the hell out of me. *You don't hold an AA meeting in a liquor store*.


Yeah, that is true. I can see in the big picture how it would be concerning.....in a vacuum I wouldn't die on the hill of a fb page but coupled with everything else I can see why you'd be upset.

Have you flat out asked your wife if she wants to be married? Tell her that you don't as things are, but you're willing to change things if she's in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah, that is true. I can see in the big picture how it would be concerning.....in a vacuum I wouldn't die on the hill of a fb page but coupled with everything else I can see why you'd be upset.
> 
> *Have you flat out asked your wife if she wants to be married?* Tell her that you don't as things are, but you're willing to change things if she's in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, we've had that discussion. I've told here that I DO want to stay married (providing there's no cheating) and are you in or are you out? Her answer is always "I don't know." I've told here that I am at the point of making the decision for her. Half of me thinks that she wants to keep pushing me away so that I'll be forced to file for divorce just to keep my sanity. That way she can tell everyone that I'm to blame.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> Yes, we've had that discussion. I've told here that I DO want to stay married (providing there's no cheating) and are you in or are you out? Her answer is always "I don't know." I've told here that I am at the point of making the decision for her. Half of me thinks that she wants to keep pushing me away so that I'll be forced to file for divorce just to keep my sanity. That way she can tell everyone that I'm to blame.


"I don't know" is a bullsh!t answer that you get from someone weighing whether they can do better or they have to settle for you. 

It means no. 

File anyway.....who the hvll cares if she blames you?

This is your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Assume it's over bud. Maybe she's been planning this a long time and is now executing.

For many women, financial security is a number one need - one you haven't met. That could be part of it.

No matter. She's moving forward and so should you. Keep your options open - to go or to stay.

BUT you can't convince her to stay or get things back to the way they were. I think she'll only come back if she KNOWS she's lost you and then decides that's a bad thing. Right now you are plan B. Take that away and see what happend


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tripod (Jun 18, 2016)

"That way she can tell everyone that I'm to blame."

This is exactly what's happening. She'll increasingly make your life hell on Earth ramping up the disrespect, spending (if you're on the financial edge, who's paying for her guitar and amp equipment?) and social/bar time with friends while you stay home looking at your hands and thinking "what did I do wrong?" 

You're going to fall into a trap...that of being a nice guy and wanting her approval even as she disrespects you and uses you. Get a pitbull attorney. Play hard ball. If you don't, you'll end up with all the debt, paying her while she plays and shacks up with some dude while you take care of the kids. She's tired of being a mom and wants to be her own self...great let her go to work and support herself. 

She launched this ship and deserves to go down on it, clearly she's going down somewhere and with someone. And it ain't you.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> You said that you'd been operating as roommates for a long time.
> 
> What steps did you take to change that? That kind of thing is only going to go on for so long before something happens....either someone blows up, cheats, or leaves.
> 
> ...


Lifeistooshort,

I really appreciate all the feedback and good points. As to what have I been doing to correct the situation, I have worked on myself to make me the best person I can be. Someone she would be crazy to leave. Take care of the family, bills, house, etc. Stay in great shape. Run marathons, 1/2's, shorter races. That actually got her into running. She'd never done it before she met me. I've rediscovered playing guitar and now play live music in a band. Be funny and personable and confident. Not show how much her disinterest kills me. Touch her (both sexual and non), talk to her, take her out if its something we can afford. Just as likely to get an indifferent response as an enthusiastic one. I used to obsess over getting just the right gift for a birthday or anniversary, but everything either gets returned or stuffed in the back of the closet so I've given up on that. 

But it seems I've just become a roommate in better shape. My guitar playing has improved though.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> Lifeistooshort,
> 
> I really appreciate all the feedback and good points. As to what have I been doing to correct the situation, I have worked on myself to make me the best person I can be. Someone she would be crazy to leave. Take care of the family, bills, house, etc. Stay in great shape. Run marathons, 1/2's, shorter races. That actually got her into running. She'd never done it before she met me. I've rediscovered playing guitar and now play live music in a band. Be funny and personable and confident. Not show how much her disinterest kills me. Touch her (both sexual and non), talk to her, take her out if its something we can afford. Just as likely to get an indifferent response as an enthusiastic one. I used to obsess over getting just the right gift for a birthday or anniversary, but everything either gets returned or stuffed in the back of the closet so I've given up on that.
> 
> But it seems I've just become a roommate in better shape. My guitar playing has improved though.


I've done quite a bit of running too. Would it be a huge thread jack to ask what some of your PR's are?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fishcamp said:


> Lifeistooshort,
> 
> I really appreciate all the feedback and good points. As to what have I been doing to correct the situation, I have worked on myself to make me the best person I can be. Someone she would be crazy to leave. Take care of the family, bills, house, etc. Stay in great shape. Run marathons, 1/2's, shorter races. That actually got her into running. She'd never done it before she met me. I've rediscovered playing guitar and now play live music in a band. Be funny and personable and confident. Not show how much her disinterest kills me. Touch her (both sexual and non), talk to her, take her out if its something we can afford. Just as likely to get an indifferent response as an enthusiastic one. I used to obsess over getting just the right gift for a birthday or anniversary, but everything either gets returned or stuffed in the back of the closet so I've given up on that.
> 
> But it seems I've just become a roommate in better shape. My guitar playing has improved though.


Not a bad idea to keep up with the basic good things, things from the 180, but you also need to prepare for this from a pragmatic point of view too to protect yourself. One of the first things you need to do is insist that she gets a job. No doubt there will be huge backlash, and it will become a point of contention, and something she will attack you with, but heading towards a divorce with a long term stay at home wife is terrible news for you in the long run.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fishcamp said:


> Yes, we've had that discussion. I've told here that I DO want to stay married (providing there's no cheating) and are you in or are you out? Her answer is always "I don't know." I've told here that I am at the point of making the decision for her. Half of me thinks that she wants to keep pushing me away so that I'll be forced to file for divorce just to keep my sanity. That way she can tell everyone that I'm to blame.


Make the decision FOR her. Tell her she needs to GTFO of your house. She is full of crap that she doesn't know what she wants. She wants OUT, so make her get out. Then file for divorce. (it can always be stopped if things change) She either has another man already, or has one in mind, guarantee you. She wants to be single, then make it happen.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think that she already is cheating. The dead give away's are her sudden change in feeling toward you, being concerned about her appearance and the Facebook page she won't let you see. I think that you will want confirmation so don't tell her at all about your suspicions and monitor her cell phone closely and start using a VAR. You might be saddened as to what you will find but it will help you in court. The quicker you get moving on this the better as she doesn't seem to have any desire to restore the marriage.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> I think that she already is cheating. The dead give away's are her sudden change in feeling toward you, being concerned about her appearance and the Facebook page she won't let you see. I think that you will want confirmation so don't tell her at all about your suspicions and monitor her cell phone closely and start using a VAR. You might be saddened as to what you will find but* it will help you in court*. The quicker you get moving on this the better as she doesn't seem to have any desire to restore the marriage.


Only if he is an at fault state. Most states, infidelity has no material impact on the divorce other than allowing for waiving any waiting periods. She could be banging a dozen guys, and since she is a SAHM, he would still get stuck with a bunch of alimony.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've done quite a bit of running too. Would it be a huge thread jack to ask what some of your PR's are?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No problem. My marathon PR is 3h39m. 1/2 M is somewhere around 1h40m. The fastest I go to in a 5K was 20:03. Still trying to get under 20 minutes but my old body ain't feeling it.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> If she's cheating then access to her FB page where all of her family and friends can see isn't the best place to carry on.


Chats on Facebook messenger would not be accessible to any family and friends who are "Facebook friends". I'm a longtime fan of your posts, but in this topic of privacy, I think that sharing a Facebook password with a spouse who wants to see it is the best thing to do. However, in regard to this thread, the wife already alluded that she doesn't love her husband anymore. Therefore, asking for her Facebook password is rather pointless.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> No problem. My marathon PR is 3h39m. 1/2 M is somewhere around 1h40m. The fastest I go to in a 5K was 20:03. Still trying to get under 20 minutes but my old body ain't feeling it.


Hey, you're my running partner...we could pace each other!

I don't train much for marathons, I just show up and run so my marathon pr is only 3:51.

My half pr is 1:39 and my 5k pr is 20:16. 

Unless you count the college cross country days when I could swing 19:00 on a trail.....22 years and 2 kids ago.

Was working on the sub 20 5k when I stress fractured my foot, so now I have to build up again. 

But I do pretty well among women, and I'm 42 so I win some masters.

Your times are more than respectable!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> *Sure, there are periods when I've taken her for granted over the last 21 years. Spent more time at work than necessary telling myself that I was providing for my family. Getting lazy and spending too much time just hanging out at home instead of providing new adventures for the family. Worrying too much about money. I've been complacent. *But during the last couple of years I have tried to get her to do things with me. She just doesn't seem to enjoy spending time with me. ME: "Let's go to a concert this weekend." HER: "We can't afford it." The following weekend she goes on an outing with her friends while I stay home. HER: "I need to get more exercise." ME: "Great, let's go to the gym and work out." HER: "Nah, don't feel like it." One of her friends invites her to some exercise based activity (rollerblading, paddleboarding, etc.) and she's excited and a willing participant.
> 
> First ten years of marriage - GREAT. Lots of travel, fun, sex, closeness. But spent too much money - now we are literally paying for it. After children were born, she seemed to switch all in to the mommy role and completely out of the wife role. We even discussed it and I told her that I was starting to miss her and she shouldn't put all her eggs in the mother basket. *One day the kids will be grown and gone and then it'll be too late to try to be a wife after such a long period of neglect*.


I don't think you realize how much what I've *bolded* plays into what she's doing. It seems (to me) that she may have been feeling terribly neglected by you for quite a while, and you may be downplaying how much damage you may have done. 

It seems that you recognize this and are now trying to make up for lost time by wanting to do things with her. But in her mind, it might be too late for you to try and be the husband that she needed and wanted years ago. 

If you TRULY have neglected her, then she may feel like if you divorce her or she divorced you, it would be no great loss. And her feelings probably didn't happen over night; they've been brewing for quite some time. 

From what you've written, I doubt she's been cheating. If she DOES meet someone before you're divorce is final, it would probably be when the two of you are already separated or it would be an exit affair. 

A lot of women go through what's she's going through because they have already tried _numerous times _to get through to their husbands. It often falls on deaf ears because the husband is so wrapped up in his own world, until it's too late.



> As to what have I been doing to correct the situation, I have worked on myself to make me the best person I can be. Someone she would be crazy to leave. Take care of the family, bills, house, etc. Stay in great shape. Run marathons, 1/2's, shorter races. That actually got her into running. She'd never done it before she met me. I've rediscovered playing guitar and now play live music in a band. Be funny and personable and confident. Not show how much her disinterest kills me. Touch her (both sexual and non), talk to her, take her out if its something we can afford. Just as likely to get an indifferent response as an enthusiastic one. I used to obsess over getting just the right gift for a birthday or anniversary, but everything either gets returned or stuffed in the back of the closet so I've given up on that.
> 
> But it seems I've just become a roommate in better shape. My guitar playing has improved though.


A lot of what you've written is great if you want to improve _yourself_, yet does very little to improve your _marriage_. For example: Playing in a band is awesome, but what does that do for your wife or your marriage? If you're playing in a band, that means that you're NOT spending quality time with your wife. And likewise, if you're busy running/training for marathons, then you're not spending time with your wife/kids. Just _who_ is at home taking care of the kids while you're HAVING FUN running in marathons and playing in a band? 

Just giving you some food for thought. 

This can be turned around, but in all honesty, I think you both need the intervention of a competent marriage counselor to help you both. I would insist on this before making a decision or issuing an ultimatum. 


It seems like you both may need to re-evaluate


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> But no big fights or infidelity.


YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?



fishcamp said:


> We’ve been growing distant over the past several years. Going through the motions. Taking each other for granted. Dwindling sex life. Little affection shown towards each other.





fishcamp said:


> Just kind of a roommate situation. We are both in good shape physically





fishcamp said:


> Our marriage has been on autopilot for years but over the past 12 months, our problems have really come to a head.





fishcamp said:


> But since about a year ago she really started taking better care of herself and paying more attention to her appearance. Changed her hair color and gets a color and cut every two months. Eating better, paying more attention to her weight.





fishcamp said:


> Goes running on a regular basis. She’s also wearing makeup and nicer clothes. Not the sweats and oversized t-shirt wardrobe that I’d grown used to seeing.





fishcamp said:


> She’s also started going to concerts to hear live music, something she never expressed interest in during the first 19 years or so of our marriage. Now she’s all about it. Facebook friend groups with musicians, band fan pages, music history, all that.





fishcamp said:


> About a month ago, wife tells me that her feelings towards me have changed. She’s no longer in love with me. Doesn’t care about me. Doesn’t see me as being a part of her future. Says she doesn’t want to be just a wife and mother any longer. She’s not sure about what she wants in the future but says things have to change. *Says she’d be happy just seeing the kids on a part-time basis. Doesn’t care if she sees them on holidays.* Seems like she wants to go back to the life of a single girl.





fishcamp said:


> Nothing seems to get answered regarding what she wants or how she can fall back in love with me. A lot of “I don’t knows”. She also, I believe, is intentionally acting certain ways to punish/hurt me.





fishcamp said:


> We have had some trust issues in the past that I thought we’d addressed thoroughly and corrected, yet over the past 12 months, I’ve caught her occasionally lying to me about where she is, what her plans are, spending, etc. and it reopens the same issues regarding trust and transparency. Last week she lied and said she was out with her sisters shopping but instead she left them early to come back to town and go by herself to a club to drink and listen to live music. I didn’t find out until the next morning.


Etc. Etc. Etc. I got tired of quoting all this cheater script but there's still more in your original post.

Point is your wife's cheating on you. OM is mostly likely a musician or into the club scene. Your wife's a groupie bro.

The part I *BOLDED* is especially damning. No woman and mother whose not high on regular OM beef injections would say such a thing. EVER. I hope you recorded that or have it documented. Step one when you file for D is to try to get custody so you're not paying threw the nose child support on three kids that she doesn't give a damn if she sees or not. Your the bread winner, only thing you need to concern yourself with is how to get out of this relationship CLEAN.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Whatever you do, don't beg,blackmail,threaten or coerce her into staying. Stay strong and resolute when around her even if you're dying inside. Read up on the 180 and apply it. Let her know you will just fine without her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

It appears your W might be holding some resentment. In the realm of you being neglectful. However, sometimes it is nice for the other party to make one aware of problem instead of letting it stew. How is the other going to fix it if they really do not know what they are doing or have done. That is the craps of it. 

Perhaps your W is simply ready to move on. Perhaps you should look into cell phone usage and other means of electronic communication to assure there is no OM.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

Vega said:


> I don't think you realize how much what I've *bolded* plays into what she's doing. *It seems (to me) that she may have been feeling terribly neglected by you for quite a while, and you may be downplaying how much damage you may have done.*
> 
> It seems that you recognize this and are now trying to make up for lost time by wanting to do things with her. But in her mind, it might be too late for you to try and be the husband that she needed and wanted years ago.
> 
> ...


And I appreciate the input. But when you say "terribly neglected" what exactly do you mean? By being dependable, loyal, honest, hard-working and caring? Taking care of her emotional and physical needs. Being a shoulder to cry on and a confidante. Hell, I fix & clean her car, take care of the house, the family, the bills, the yard, the pets, coach our kids in sports, take her out when we can afford it, turn her on to new food, music, travel, etc. Seems like she's just bored with me. I do sound kind of boring. Maybe if I quit my job, got hooked on dope, bought a motorcycle and stayed out til 4 in the morning every night, I'd be more a thrill to her.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> And I appreciate the input. But when you say "terribly neglected" what exactly do you mean? By being dependable, loyal, honest, hard-working and caring? Taking care of her emotional and physical needs. Being a shoulder to cry on and a confidante. Hell, I fix & clean her car, take care of the house, the family, the bills, the yard, the pets, coach our kids in sports, take her out when we can afford it, turn her on to new food, music, travel, etc. Seems like she's just bored with me. I do sound kind of boring. Maybe if I quit my job, got hooked on dope, bought a motorcycle and stayed out til 4 in the morning every night, I'd be more a thrill to her.


Hahaha, I like the cut of your jib. I think she just lost respect for you cause of all the crap you do for her. 

Ask your wife, what instrument does her OM play and stop pvssyfooting around the issue.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

fishcamp said:


> Yes, we've had that discussion. I've told here that I DO want to stay married (providing there's no cheating) and are you in or are you out? Her answer is always "I don't know." I've told here that I am at the point of making the decision for her. Half of me thinks that she wants to keep pushing me away so that I'll be forced to file for divorce just to keep my sanity. That way she can tell everyone that I'm to blame.


Who cares who gets blamed as long as you're happy in the end.

Also, there is not f'ing privacy in marriage unless you're going #2 in the bathroom. Anyone hiding a phone or FB page is doing it because they have something to hide....like cheating.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fishcamp said:


> And I appreciate the input. But when you say "terribly neglected" what exactly do you mean? By being dependable, loyal, honest, hard-working and caring? Taking care of her emotional and physical needs. Being a shoulder to cry on and a confidante. Hell, I fix & clean her car, take care of the house, the family, the bills, the yard, the pets, coach our kids in sports, take her out when we can afford it, turn her on to new food, music, travel, etc. Seems like she's just bored with me. I do sound kind of boring.* Maybe if I quit my job, got hooked on dope, bought a motorcycle and stayed out til 4 in the morning every night, I'd be more a thrill to her*.


Don't forget that you have to bang other chicks too...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

fishcamp said:


> Lifeistooshort,
> 
> I really appreciate all the feedback and good points. As to what have I been doing to correct the situation, I have worked on myself to make me the best person I can be. Someone she would be crazy to leave. Take care of the family, bills, house, etc. Stay in great shape. Run marathons, 1/2's, shorter races. That actually got her into running. She'd never done it before she met me. I've rediscovered playing guitar and now play live music in a band. Be funny and personable and confident. Not show how much her disinterest kills me. Touch her (both sexual and non), talk to her, take her out if its something we can afford. Just as likely to get an indifferent response as an enthusiastic one. I used to obsess over getting just the right gift for a birthday or anniversary, but everything either gets returned or stuffed in the back of the closet so I've given up on that.
> 
> But it seems I've just become a roommate in better shape. My guitar playing has improved though.


If what you have written above is accurate, true, has [time-wise, medium-long legs], you have done most that anyone could ask. 

File for divorce.....get her off the fence. You can always cancel the divorce if she wants to reconcile. 

You have* unknown leverage*. She appears NOT to value what assets you possess.

The spring in your step, the smile on your face, the enthusiasm to do things together, the loyalty to her and the kids, the past good times....all [appear] to hold no weight, no compelling reason to remain in the marriage. No reason to LOVE YOU, ugh.

However, the one thing that you DO have, that she desperately needs, is financial support, even if it is temporary. She is not desperately trying to get a job, not desperately trying to make it on her own. Not getting her ducks in a row. She does have plans, but they are weak.....unless some man is in the wings...some man that will carry her after she breaks it off with you. There is no evidence of this yet.
And if there is...who cares? She is lost to you....in reality is lost to herself. She does not yet know this. She may land on her feet...be happy. But the odds are slim. Eventually, she can make it on her own. But this likely will take years.

NO, *SHE is in limbo*. She is busy being immature, stepping out and flapping her wings. You are enabling her behavior...because you are a Nice Guy. 

Be polite, but *file and cut her off from any funds*. 

This is your leverage....these are your friends....George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Jackson, Benjamin Franklin.....all your friends have their portraits on current U.S. Currency.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

No fence sitting allowed. She needs to sh!t or get off the pot. She's a cake eater.

I think she's cheating. Sorry to say. 

And if you are living paycheck to paycheck, what's with her buying guitars and amps and going to shows and clubbing?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She's cheating or has a man in her sights. All the signs are there.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@fishcamp Your wife doesn't love you. Well, I wouldn't feel too bad about that, if I were you. Because you share good company. As she doesn't love her children, either.

:scratchhead: :wtf: Really? Yep! That's actually what she told you, but not in so many words.

This is starting to sound a little weird and she needs to be checked out by a Doctor in case she is suffering from a depressive illness.

But here's something she hasn't figured out. If she leaves you and the kids, she gets to pay _you_ child support and perhaps alimony.

She won't get a job? She wants to be a single girl again? *Really*? She's *seriously* going to try that nonsense with this dude?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

You said:
_About a month ago, wife tells me that her feelings towards me have changed. She’s no longer in love with me. Doesn’t care about me. Doesn’t see me as being a part of her future. Says she doesn’t want to be just a wife and mother any longer. She’s not sure about what she wants in the future but says things have to change. Says she’d be happy just seeing the kids on a part-time basis. Doesn’t care if she sees them on holidays. Seems like she wants to go back to the life of a single girl._

There is no doubt that she's involved with an OM. Only a WW would say she'd be ok with only having the kids part time and not seeing them for holidays. It really means she would just bounce and barely see them all if she wouldn't have to face family scorn. 

She's spending time at clubs while you're home with the kids. Do you really think she's going alone? No dude, she's meeting up with her new boo. 

You've let this marriage deteriorate way too long before forcefully intervening. I don't see how this can be salvaged. When a woman tells you "I don't know." that means no. Don't wait on her to decide your future. File for D and tried to get full custody but settle for nothing less that shared custody so you can pay her less. After supporting her for all these years the courts will reward you with all the debt and her with the assets.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Your OP said that you are living paycheck to paycheck and then later you said she's going out to concerts and bars, and buying a guitar and amp? She's a SAHM with no income of her own? Where is this money coming from?


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Fishcam - why does she have any money for her weekend and evening activities at all?

My wife is a SAHM as well and while she never asks my permission to spend money, unless it's a considerable investment, I would all but cut her off if she had expressed to me the things that your wife said to you. Because you're the bread winner, you have considerable leverage here. This means that if she wants to go galavanting around town without your company, you can cut her off financially so that she cannot afford to do so.

If she thinks it would be so awesome to be single with no kids, let her get a taste of having zero to very little money. That ought to smack some reality back into her. Hey, she gets to ultimately decide if she no longer wishes to be married to you but I'd be damned if she was going to spend my money hanging at at clubs many nights while she figured it out. 

You see, once she figures out that life won't be one big party because she has to work all the time and doesn't have much money, suddenly things at home don't look so bad.


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## Lifeiscomplicated (Sep 27, 2016)

I have sent you a PM


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

fishcamp said:


> Just don't want to set up a Facebook account for myself. We have a lot of mutual friends, family members and interest groups that are on FB and I would like to see what they say every once in a while. Thing is, she never had a problem with me looking at and posting stuff on her page until about a year ago. Now its strictly off-limits. *And wouldn't she be able to hide posts from me if I were only a friend vs. actually looking at her page?*


Uh... *NO*. She can post anything she wants on FB, and even thou you are friended, you can be excluded from posts or various people on her pages. Anyone she is banging, she would have them BLOCK YOU - before she accepts your friend request... so you will see....

nothing.


She'll soon be 50. She is going to compete against 20-something year old groupies or whatever? No real income..?
Throw her out of the house. File for Divorce. Decide later if you want her back.

She want's to play "25yr old sloot"... she is sad. She's done being a mom.

And when she is crawling back... if you want her, she needs to earn it. Cause she has severely disrespected her children, not just you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The only two redflags I haven't seen you mention are new Brazilian waxes and hickies on her neck.
She's been cheating at least a year.
Your paying for it, cut her off.
Florida is terrible for men in divorce.
Ask her to leave, abandonement may help your case.
Get a voice activated recorder and heavy duty velcro and tag it under the seat of her car. You will know in a day or two. Spy ware on computer and phone.
Look for evidence gathering thread.

Does she still have sex with you at all?


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

kag123 said:


> Your OP said that you are living paycheck to paycheck and then later you said she's going out to concerts and bars, and buying a guitar and amp? She's a SAHM with no income of her own? Where is this money coming from?


Money is tight but the guitar was a Christmas gift purchased with money her parents had sent to us. The amp was a great deal on used gear that was purchased after I sold one of mine. We are not talking about top-end gear. She does have a small amount of income that she generates by helping her female friend with her design business, but the money is negligible. We have a joint checking account that all our bills are paid out of. I check the balance and transactions frequently. She really doesn't spend that much when she goes out according to what I can gather. She's not much of a partier/drinker so she's not running up big bar tabs. I know that I have financial leverage and am starting to use it.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Fish,

You're up to 50 posts on this thread now and here is what you have accomplished
(1) we know your marathon times
(2) you want to stay married if there is no cheating. However, it appears that you want to stay married and not find out if she is cheating. And if continuous partying and overnight trips to bars and clubs while you guard the house does not set off a major alarm for you I do not know what will.
(3) she earns no money but you fund her fun 
(4) no indications any of this is going to reverse itself given what you have posted.

Now you obviously have your gut churning or you would not have sought out the advice on this forum. So what is your plan??? Begging her to stop.

Assuming you refuse to listen to specific things you could do to find out the truth, if you cut off her "play" monkey and she still goes away then what does that tell you??? I'll answer for you. It tells you that someone else is paying, and that someone is either other man or men OR your so called "friends". Maybe that m igt be a start to get out of the "fog" that she has YOU in.

Now you can keep asking questions and you will get opinions and answers. But none of what anyone writes here is going to change the fact that your wife is "checked out" and it is going to take some action of some kind on your part beyond "asking" her if she is being a good girl during party time in order for you to determine the best thing for yourself.

And understand something. Women in MOST cases enter affairs for emotional needs first, and because of that they get more emotionally atttached to their OM. That means the longer you stay in the dark the less chance you have to get any kind of successful outcome if you want to reconcile.

And I think you better really start to soul search on what you are going to do when you find out she is cheating big time because she is not spending her week ends at the county library. She is in sexually charged bars and clubs getting hit on by other men.

I hope you start the train down the tracks


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Fish,
> 
> You're up to 50 posts on this thread now and here is what you have accomplished
> (1) we know your marathon times
> ...


Appreciate the words. I have given her the A/B choice. *Choice A:* recommit yourself 100% to the marriage, complete transparency (including FB), no going out alone. *Choice B:* divorce. She still can't decide so I am deciding for her. I was gonna give her a couple of weeks to think things over, but she can stew over it while the papers are being processed. I spoke to an attorney and we are drawing up the preliminary divorce paperwork. I am sitting down with the wife today to go over the custody, living and financial arrangements that will be necessary to agree upon in order to keep this uncontested. If she wants to fight about the arrangements, its going to get really expensive. Anyway, we'll see after today if the fog clears. If not, I'm ready to move on. I'd rather be alone than a chump.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Divorce is a long process. Keep it up until you either wind up divorced or she seems like the wife in Choice A.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Carry a var on you. If you can get her to repeat her feeling about the kids that's a slam dunk.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

fishcamp said:


> Appreciate the words. I have given her the A/B choice. *Choice A:* recommit yourself 100% to the marriage, complete transparency (including FB), no going out alone. *Choice B:* divorce. She still can't decide so I am deciding for her. I was gonna give her a couple of weeks to think things over, but she can stew over it while the papers are being processed. I spoke to an attorney and we are drawing up the preliminary divorce paperwork. I am sitting down with the wife today to go over the custody, living and financial arrangements that will be necessary to agree upon in order to keep this uncontested. If she wants to fight about the arrangements, its going to get really expensive. Anyway, we'll see after today if the fog clears. If not, I'm ready to move on. I'd rather be alone than a chump.


Good for you.

More likely than not she will promise to go Plan A. Why? because it will buy her time. Don't be surprised if she doesn't follow through with her commitments. Even if she choose Plan A continue with the divorce process. It's the only thing that will keep the fire stoked under her feet.


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## tripod (Jun 18, 2016)

Keep a voice activated recorder, or an app on your smart phone, when you are with or around her. You sound level-headed, but men are at a horrendous disadvantage when it comes to false accusations of domestic violence. You can bet her girl friends and perhaps even a guy she's hanging with, will be telling her all the ways she can screw you--without actually having sex that is. You may think you know her, but then you thought you knew her before the change. Any woman who would desert her children cannot be trusted at all. 

Sorry you're here but sounds like you've had enough and are on the right path. Don't let any residual affection cloud your mind, shake your resolve or lull you into a sense of "oh, she'd never do that." Because...voice of experience here talking...she will.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

My advice, stay detach until you both see some individual counseling. For now, work on your own end. If you want to be in a relationship again, how would you uphold your own end. Complacency is a big part on how a lot of LTR begin to fail. Communication and skills like taking time to talk about how fulfilled or unfulfilled each of you are in aspects of your relationship. Communication is important.

Reason why I suggest you stay detach even if she chooses choice "A" is because you want to watch her behavioral patterns. Not to mention how transparent she is. Sorry if I miss this, but why did she stay a SAHM for that long period of time? Everyone needs an identity outside of their marriage and just being a parent, something for themselves.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Fish,

Now you are making BIG TIME PROGRESS!!!! My guess is if she has any brains, regardless of what she wants, is like another poster told you, that she will give in on some if not all of your conditions for reconciliation. DO NOT TRUST ANYTHING she says that you cannot verify.

I told you once, but you really really need to evaluate who these so called friends are and what roles they have played in her going out with them constantly WITHOUT you. You can't really think that is acceptable that since this is constant that she is not either getting encouragement or "cover" from one or some of them. The reason you need to figure that one out is because even if she agrees to not disappear for the week ends, that does not put you in the clear. 

Fish, it does take time to divorce, but you need to be prepared for as many possible outcomes as you can, including that she says that she is cheating, has a boyfriend, and is fine with the divorce. Do NOT give her papers and then weaken when she calls your bluff if that happens or it will embolden her more.

She has to know that you have not been pleased to put it mildly that she is this party animal without you now, so my guess still is she is going to resist your boundaries and expectations. The big issue to have to resolve in your own mind is can you continue NOT knowing if or how many times she has cheated on you. I believe there are only two possibilities to find that out

(1) she gets knocked off her high horse by the divorce papers and confesses
(2) she gaslights and denies and you do a polygraph. 

If it does not matter to you if she has been banging other men every week end, choose #1. If not, you tell her you cannot move forward without the truth and there is no reason for you to believe a word she says. Her reaction to you asking for the polygraph will tell you a lot. My guess is she will be adamantly refusing and resemble Casper The Ghost because she knows that will nail her.

Just keep moving forward. Pressure the attorney to gdet the papers drawn up, and give her a little dose of consequence. That is you best chance if there is a chance to save this marriage. Stay on the offensive and do like you are doing and start to play "hardball".

Glad to see you are "getting it".


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## sdrawkcab (Jun 16, 2016)

fishcamp said:


> Appreciate the words. I have given her the A/B choice. *Choice A:* recommit yourself 100% to the marriage, complete transparency (including FB), no going out alone. *Choice B:* divorce. *She still can't decide *so I am deciding for her. I was gonna give her a couple of weeks to think things over, but she can stew over it while the papers are being processed. I spoke to an attorney and we are drawing up the preliminary divorce paperwork. I am sitting down with the wife today to go over the custody, living and financial arrangements that will be necessary to agree upon in order to keep this uncontested. If she wants to fight about the arrangements, its going to get really expensive. Anyway, we'll see after today if the fog clears. If not, I'm ready to move on. I'd rather be alone than a chump.


The fact that her initial response to your request to recommit is indecision, tells me she is not all in. Even after you present her with the divorce papers...what does that mean?...recommitment under pressure? Seems like she's offering crumbs and your malnourished marriage needs more than that to survive. 

TBH, I'd proceed with Plan B and the only way you convert to Plan A is in response to positive behavior changes from your wife. Actions (NOT words) would have to derail the divorce train.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

". She really doesn't spend that much when she goes out according to what I can gather. She's not much of a partier/drinker so she's not running up big bar tabs." - uh, women have little problems getting GUYS to pay for food, drink and entertainment.

A woman I had NSA relationship with 15 years ago told me this one night (after we had sex) - that a guy was buying her and 3 of her friends drinks ALL NIGHT LONG. (4 women x 5 drinks = $160~$200. When the club closed, they disappeared on him.

Buy the VAR today. Get the SONY - make sure it has USB port on it, its about $45~55. Or use the recorder on your phone until you do. Record any conversations. Especially if the conversation is about leaving YOU with the kids and wants her freedom. YOU DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE!!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

TaDor said:


> ". She really doesn't spend that much when she goes out according to what I can gather. She's not much of a partier/drinker so she's not running up big bar tabs." - uh, women have little problems getting GUYS to pay for food, drink and entertainment.
> 
> A woman I had NSA relationship with 15 years ago told me this one night (after we had sex) - that a guy was buying her and 3 of her friends drinks ALL NIGHT LONG. (4 women x 5 drinks = $160~$200. When the club closed, they disappeared on him.
> 
> Buy the VAR today. Get the SONY - make sure it has USB port on it, its about $45~55. Or use the recorder on your phone until you do. Record any conversations. Especially if the conversation is about leaving YOU with the kids and wants her freedom. YOU DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE!!


If you decide to use a VAR, please make sure that you're acting within the boundaries of the law for your state, otherwise the evidence you gather may not be admissible in court, if it goes that route. 

https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

fishcamp said:


> I’ve been reading through this forum for a while but now I need your thoughts. Thanks in advance for any help you may offer. Forgive this being my first post.
> 
> Wife and I (both 49 years old) have been married 21 years. Three kids 17, 14 & 7. She’s been a SAHM for most of the past 17 years. We’ve been growing distant over the past several years. Going through the motions. Taking each other for granted. Dwindling sex life. Little affection shown towards each other. But no big fights or infidelity. Just kind of a roommate situation. We are both in good shape physically but financially, we’ve got a lot of debt and live paycheck to paycheck. I have a career but just don’t make enough to cover all our bills. She has been looking for a job and interviewed a few times but hasn’t been successful in getting a job yet. I know this is a major source of stress in our marriage. Oldest one goes off to college next year. Still figuring out how to pay for that. Our marriage has been on autopilot for years but over the past 12 months, our problems have really come to a head.
> 
> ...


100% cheating or working on it.

Divorce her.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> The only two redflags I haven't seen you mention are new Brazilian waxes and hickies on her neck.
> She's been cheating at least a year.
> Your paying for it, cut her off.
> Florida is terrible for men in divorce.
> ...


No, not much. I have a question regarding looking up cell phone numbers. Looking at our phone bill, I can see numbers that send and receive text messages to her phone. I can eliminate a lot of them as family or other friends but there are a few that I can not identify. Instead of me just calling the number and asking *"Who's this and why are texting my wife in the morning after I've left for work?"*, do you have any ideas or resources on tracking down reliable cell number info? I'm not against calling them up per se, just down know how effective that technique would be. I can't find anything on these number using Google searches or SpyDialer.

Thanks.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@GusPolinski


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

You could try this... Name From Phone :: Home. 

I don't know why it matters. What more do you need to act? She's already gone and you're just waiting around for her to leave. 

Best


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Vega said:


> If you decide to use a VAR, please make sure that you're acting within the boundaries of the law for your state, otherwise the evidence you gather may not be admissible in court, if it goes that route.
> 
> https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf


He's not using it as court evidence, and no prosecutor in this country would waste taxpayer money prosecuting a husband taping his cheating wife's convos with her boytoy. And even if he did get busted...what? A class 3 misdemeanor at most?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> He's not using it as court evidence, and no prosecutor in this country would waste taxpayer money prosecuting a husband taping his cheating wife's convos with her boytoy. And even if he did get busted...what? A class 3 misdemeanor at most?


Not talking about criminal court, but family court. (Believe it or not, there are still a few states where adultery is considered a crime). If the husband can prove that his wife was having an affair AND that she wasn't interested in the children, the 'tape' could be used as evidence, which could get the OP sole custody of the children, plus child support. I believe there may be some penalties (in some cases) in store for the OM as well. 

As for penalties for wiretapping), it would depend on whether or not wiretapping would be charged as a felony or a misdemeanor. In some states, the prosecutor has the _choice_. As a misdemeanor, there could be a fine, jail time or both. But as a felony, one could be looking at several _years_ in prison.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Vega said:


> As for penalties for wiretapping), it would depend on whether or not wiretapping would be charged as a felony or a misdemeanor. In some states, the prosecutor has the _choice_. As a misdemeanor, there could be a fine, jail time or both. But as a felony, one could be looking at several _years_ in prison.


True. But what prosecutor would allocate the money to prosecute a case like that? Very, very few. It would end up in JP court.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

fishcamp said:


> Just don't want to set up a Facebook account for myself. We have a lot of mutual friends, family members and interest groups that are on FB and I would like to see what they say every once in a while. Thing is, she never had a problem with me looking at and posting stuff on her page until about a year ago. Now its strictly off-limits. And wouldn't she be able to hide posts from me if I were only a friend vs. actually looking at her page?


*If her FB is now suddenly being restricted, after you'd had previous unfettered access to it, I'd have to say that she is probably in the process of hiding something from you!

That being said, I'd say to go into immediate super-sleuth mode and to also schedule a visit with a good family attorney to advise you of all of your rights and options!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Fishcamp, please get real. You need to knock her for a loop. She is playing you sir like a violin. Swift, firm, decisive action is needed.
First you are the sole provider essentially. Well, cut off her cash flow by setting up an account in your name and making sure your paycheck goes there, not to your joint account. Secondly, ask her to move out. Thirdly, read up on the 180 and follow it. She is gone. And sadly from your posts she is cheating on you.

Please consider reading "Grow A Pair" and "No more mr nice guy". Those books opened my eyes. Be strong and be firm. Right now from my take on the thread you are sending her somewhat tepid signals. You need to be blunt and in her face. Tell her you are going out and not to wait up on you. Good luck sir.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

fishcamp said:


> Appreciate the words. *I'd rather be alone than a chump*.


I can be a Smart and an Ass....rarely both.

You got these words out of context.

You are *alone *[now] and will *remain a Chump* until you carry through on your excellent plans.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

fishcamp said:


> I’m talking to an attorney today. I don’t want to but I feel like a chump sitting at home with the kids on the weekends while she’s out on the town. If she hasn’t cheated already then it’s probably heading that way. Right now all of this is devastating to me. I go back and forth between sadness and anger. Anybody ever have their wife fall back in love with them? Does it last or is it just a temporary reconciliation? Is a request to see your spouse’s Facebook page unreasonable?


Sounds like the stay at home life has bored her out of her skull for the last 17 years. Personally, I think people are setting themselves up for failure by having one partner not working for such long periods of time, but that's just my opinion.

I would think she's probably cheated several times already. There are no reasons to lie to your spouse if you are an honest person with nothing to hide. You've caught her out in lies, and that's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

Is your request to see her Facebook page unreasonable? In an ordinary marriage, yes, I think it absolutely is unreasonable. It means you don't trust her, and either you don't trust her because she's untrustworthy, or because you're paranoid and delusional. If it's squeaky clean, it proves nothing either way. If it's not, you'll never be given access, so it's pointless to even ask. At the end of the day, either you trust yourself, or you trust her. Make a decision.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

TaDor said:


> ". She really doesn't spend that much when she goes out according to what I can gather. She's not much of a partier/drinker so she's not running up big bar tabs." - uh, women have little problems getting GUYS to pay for food, drink and entertainment.


Yep.

She may be paying but it's not with cash.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I get the feeling the divorce papers you're having drawn up are just another Hail Mary on your part hoping it will make her realize what she's about to give up.

The papers WILL make her realize a few things, but not what you're hoping for.

It will make her realize she can't support herself in her desired new 'single life' because she was foolish enough to stay home for 17 years and throw away all her marketability in the job market. Employers don't generally jump at the chance to hire women whose only experience for the last 10+ years is driving a mini-van full of kids to soccer practice (unless it's a crap job paying minimum wage that no one_ else_ will take - then women like your wife are the perfect candidates).

So all you're going to do is make her realize she's SCREWED financially and I'm willing to bet you're going to get the 'reaction' you're hoping for - a suddenly 'devoted' wife who wants to work on her marriage and is OH so sorry for that crazy moment of insanity she had, thinking she wanted to be single again <insert big fake crocodile tears here>.

If you really want her back on THOSE terms, then have at it. Unless her new boyfriend is happy to support her indefinitely if she leaves, then the reality is that you're her only option. Lucky you.

Lastly, pop those numbers you found on her cell phone into the search bar on Facebook (one at a time). If the number is tied to a Facebook profile, it will bring you right to it. Free, cheap, and easy.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If none of the search engines come up with anything the cells are probably cheap pay as you go phones also known as burner phones. One outfit called spokeo.com used to be good but I haven't heard anything lately.

If you can, see if there are any Cordel and Cordel affiliated attorneys in your area. They specialize in father friendly divorces.

Ask them about subpoenaing social media and phone records.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> *I get the feeling the divorce papers you're having drawn up are just another Hail Mary on your part hoping it will make her realize what she's about to give up.
> *
> The papers WILL make her realize a few things, but not what you're hoping for.
> 
> ...


You're right. At first I thought the divorce option would reel her back in. Hasn't happened. She cries but there is no sign of her wanting to fight for the relationship. She's checked out. Then I found out last night that she's been talking to & meeting another man. A local musician who's divorced. She says they are just friends and talk about music. She even says he is offering to help her find a job! *How thoughtful!* That's why she didn't want me tagging along with her out to clubs. They would meet up and talk after his set. She swears nothing physical has happened, but she's lied to me plenty. What's one more?

She's in a relationship fog with this dude. There's no snapping out of it until its run it course. By then I plan to have the papers filed and waiting for the divorce to be finalized. But damn, divorce attorneys are expensive. None of this "$199 Special - Draw Up Your Own Divorce" when you've got three kids, property, retirement accounts, etc. to deal with. I know its going to take some time for the split to be complete and it'll probably be hell on earth until we are both living in separate residences.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

fishcamp said:


> You're right. At first I thought the divorce option would reel her back in. Hasn't happened. She cries but there is no sign of her wanting to fight for the relationship. She's checked out. Then I found out last night that she's been talking to & meeting another man. A local musician who's divorced. She says they are just friends and talk about music. She even says he is offering to help her find a job! *How thoughtful!* That's why she didn't want me tagging along with her out to clubs. They would meet up and talk after his set. She swears nothing physical has happened, but she's lied to me plenty. What's one more?
> 
> She's in a relationship fog with this dude. There's no snapping out of it until its run it course. By then I plan to have the papers filed and waiting for the divorce to be finalized. But damn, divorce attorneys are expensive. None of this "$199 Special - Draw Up Your Own Divorce" when you've got three kids, property, retirement accounts, etc. to deal with. I know its going to take some time for the split to be complete and it'll probably be hell on earth until we are both living in separate residences.



Now that divorce is the definite course, I suggest you speak little, interact little, unless about the children, and act like you are already separating. Do not talk about your relationship, working things out, or getting into arguments. Gather what evidence you have and hold it close so when you need to expose to protect yourself, you should.

There is no point running and ramming your head into a brick wall. You want some acknowledgement and the truth, except you will not get it. You will have to fight the urge.

Also, go out with friends and family and find new hobbies to take your mind off what is going on. The happier you are outside of her, the easier moving on gets. Sounds like a MLC, and there really is not much you can do about it but move on. What you can do is improve yourself and better the odds of a healthier partner should you choose to date again. Start working on the baggage this has placed on you and learn and grow.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

breeze said:


> Is your request to see her Facebook page unreasonable? In an *ordinary* marriage, yes, I think it absolutely is unreasonable. It means you don't trust her, and either you don't trust her because she's untrustworthy, or because you're paranoid and delusional. If it's squeaky clean, it proves nothing either way. If it's not, you'll never be given access, so it's pointless to even ask. At the end of the day, either you trust yourself, or you trust her. Make a decision.


That's *your* ordinary. Other peoples ordinary might be complete transparency or neither of you entertain the idiocy of Facebook to begin with.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> So all you're going to do is make her realize she's SCREWED financially and I'm willing to bet you're going to get the 'reaction' you're hoping for - a suddenly 'devoted' wife who wants to work on her marriage and is OH so sorry for that crazy moment of insanity she had, thinking she wanted to be single again <insert big fake crocodile tears here>.


Yep. Go for the throat, OP as this is the only other outcome.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Now that divorce is the definite course, I suggest you speak little, interact little, unless about the children, and act like you are already separating. Do not talk about your relationship, working things out, or getting into arguments. Gather what evidence you have and hold it close so when you need to expose to protect yourself, you should.
> 
> *There is no point running and ramming your head into a brick wall. You want some acknowledgement and the truth, except you will not get it. You will have to fight the urge.*
> 
> Also, go out with friends and family and find new hobbies to take your mind off what is going on. The happier you are outside of her, the easier moving on gets. Sounds like a MLC, and there really is not much you can do about it but move on. What you can do is improve yourself and better the odds of a healthier partner should you choose to date again. Start working on the baggage this has placed on you and learn and grow.


And that's a hard urge to fight. I really want to know the truth but I know I'll never get it. And her behavior doesn't match her words so I am believing nothing that comes out of her mouth anyway. I am internalizing this and am working on STFU. It's hard for me. I'm normally talkative so its like asking a cat not to chase a bird. That's why I've got to get out. I can't live in a constant state of mistrust and waiting for the next shoe to drop. Thanks for your advice.


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## fishcamp (Sep 26, 2016)

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Fishcamp, please get real. You need to knock her for a loop. She is playing you sir like a violin. Swift, firm, decisive action is needed.
> First you are the sole provider essentially. *Well, cut off her cash flow by setting up an account in your name and making sure your paycheck goes there, not to your joint account.* Secondly, ask her to move out. Thirdly, read up on the 180 and follow it. She is gone. And sadly from your posts she is cheating on you.
> 
> Please consider reading "Grow A Pair" and "No more mr nice guy". Those books opened my eyes. Be strong and be firm. Right now from my take on the thread you are sending her somewhat tepid signals. You need to be blunt and in her face. Tell her you are going out and not to wait up on you. Good luck sir.


How about I just her name removed from the joint account? (with her consent of course). I've got so many auto bill pays set up with the account that it'll be a pain to balance two and make sure they both have enough to avoid any overdrafts. If I can get her off of it, she can go set up her own. I've got a feeling that I'm going to be depositing support money in it anyway.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

How about a support system. Close friends, family, people you can fulfill that talkative need to. TAM does that on some level, but close interpersonal relationships work best as they are more fulfilling. Just someone to mostly listen to you or if you need, someone to also give feedback on.

Their are also mental exercises you can do to help detach. Associate this new her, the one that is manipulative, deceitful, as the new real her. When you think of the past her, those memories, instead think of her recent behavior. This will help reinforce the reason why you need to protect yourself from her and her actions, to limit the hurt. Detaching helps in which the relationship or bond weakens without reinforcement, so distance as viably possible helps.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

fishcamp said:


> How about I just her name removed from the joint account? (with her consent of course). I've got so many auto bill pays set up with the account that it'll be a pain to balance two and make sure they both have enough to avoid any overdrafts. If I can get her off of it, she can go set up her own. I've got a feeling that I'm going to be depositing support money in it anyway.




NO NO NO NO NO

what message does that send? You're too lazy to be on your own and change the auto pays and that you need her help to separate.

Come on! Just own your own life and when you see it that way, you'll kill the bank account, set up a new one, and let a few late fees accrue which sends an immediate message - change happens NOW.

It's only a few bucks and you can call and get them to accept a different payment method. 90% of time companies with with you.

Do NOT engage her on this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Op did you ever watch Seinfeld? Remember when George decided his life sucked and he did the OPPOSITE of what he always did? Keep that in mind when you make decisions. It's all you and your actions must be decisive and clear (not necessarily mean) in the future. Just my $.02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

fishcamp said:


> How about I just her name removed from the joint account? (with her consent of course). I've got so many auto bill pays set up with the account that it'll be a pain to balance two and make sure they both have enough to avoid any overdrafts. If I can get her off of it, she can go set up her own. I've got a feeling that I'm going to be depositing support money in it anyway.


May just be a state law, but here in Texas you can't take anyone off a joint account. You have to close the account.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

I haven't read all the responses so forgive me if I am restating something.

It doesn't matter if she is cheating. Repeat that over and over to yourself.

Let's assume she is not cheating. It the rest of her behavior acceptable? I doubt it. You don't need a smoking gun or a confession. You have all you need. She is behaving like a single woman with no kids. If that's what she wants to be, let her be that.

Strike now while she is deep in the fog. Chances are that 6 months down the road she will find that the emptiness she feels has not been filled by her new life. Want to guess what happens then? She gets angry. A lot of that anger will be directed towards you. A divorce will never be easier than it is now (not that it will be easy under any circumstances.) Move fast and decisively. 

On the issue of joint bank accounts: if you want to remove her access to the money, simply open a new account AT A DIFFERENT INSTITUTION with only your name on it and put the money there. Banks are largely staffed by people with little more qualification than a WalMart cashier. It is far too easy for your wife to convince a teller or manager that her name being left off was simply a mistake and she is supposed to have full access. It's not supposed to happen, but it does. There is already an established track record at that bank of joint accounts. A few well-placed tears and she'll have the account sucked clean before you know what hit you. Hopefully you can end this marriage before it gets that ugly, but a good defense is usually the best offense when it comes to divorce.

Also, I would suggest taking any personal property that means something to you (say a grandfather's war medals or dad's pocketwatch) and move them somewhere that she can't get hold of them. Sometimes a clever spouse will abscond with such things that have high sentimental value and use them a leverage to get what they want. I have seen it happen. 

Understand that you are also in a fog. The fog of unrealistic hope. You still harbor some idea that she will "snap out" of her feelings. That's up to you, but I could never take someone back that was prepared to walk away like that. I value trust above everything else. How would I ever trust her again? I would live in the uncertainty of when she might walk away again. One strike and you're out with me. If you are someone who could forgive and take her back, your best bet is still divorce. Divorce her now and get the best situation you can for you and your kids. If she wants to come back later, you can always start dating again after the divorce. I can't fathom it, but it has been done.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Banks will not remove a spouses name off a joint checking account unless she goes down there and 
removes it herself.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Fish,

Ok buddy, so now you know all you need to. She does not want you around because she has a boyfriend. And these so called friends she has been going with all know that so understand they are not your friend. Jettison them and DO NOT talk to them about her. 

The bank account thing is nonsense. Close the joint credit cards immediately. You are NOT obligated to fund her boyfriend and her. On joint accounts, your attorney will tell you to take 1/2 the liquid assets, document and copy the statement prior to and after you do that, and close the accounts if your name cannot be take off. If you are capable of finding this site and typing you are capable of changing where the payments are sent to. And lastly on that, I believe your attorney ( and now that you know the truth get the hell to one QUICKLY), I believe once you file for divorce in most places you are NOT responsible for any debt she runs up. YOUR FINANCIAL PROTECTION RIGHT NOW IS PRIORITY #1, and do not tell her a damm thing about what you are doing.

Now since Romeo the musician most likely does not have a pot to pee in, when her funding dries up some reality will set in. So beware if her attitude changes and she tries to false R with you. YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ONE WORD SHE SAYS WITHOUT A WAY TO VERIFY IT. And if the unbelievable happens and she stops this **** you do not reconcile without a polygraph down the line so she knows she will not get away with taking it underground. 

Now if you believe she is spending with a week ends with a musician hanging out until closing and then shaking hands and going their separate ways you are really deluding yourself. She is banging this guy regularly and she has gotten away with it for quite some time now.

You can't monitor anything she does when she goes out of town so a polygraph is the only way you will verify anything if you even need to know more. 

Lets address the "so called fog". You will not know anything about her fog until some consequences start to arrive. Right now,. As someone else has pointed out you have been in the "fog" for sitting by and letting this unfold It appears you have snapped out of it. I do not think that you can save this marriage ,but you will be amazed at how quickly this female fog" dissipates in SAHM with no means of support once their world gets blown up. You can make a major contribution to that happening.

And stay the hell out of MC. HYou do not do that with a wife who is actively cheating.

Hang in there. Once you start to take control here it will improve in time.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

breeze said:


> That's BS. If someone is going to have an affair, they'll use whatever means they have available. If they didn't have FB, it would just be something else.


True but incomplete. Those who seek affairs will find them. 

There is another category of cheater. This is the weak person who is preyed upon during a time of crisis. Without Facebook and the like, it would be near impossible for exp boyfriends/girlfriends to easily and safely contact old flames. It enables predators to have a quasi-acceptable reason to be in your partner's life (I wouldn't accept it but some think it is harmless.) 

Nothing excuses this person's decision to betray their commitment, but the fact is that many affairs simply wouldn't happen if social media did not set the stage for easy access to vulnerable people. I would never forgive a cheater, but I do recognize that some people give in to temptation because the are weak and would never have done so if the temptation had not been so easily accessible. There's a reason that recovering alcoholics should not keep a bottly of whiskey in the kitchen cabinet.


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## sdrawkcab (Jun 16, 2016)

“A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time. When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, The one I feed the most.”
― George Bernard Shaw


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I just deleted a thread jack of 30 or so posts that have nothing to do with the OP and his issues. If you post on this thread, stick to talking to the OP about his issues.

{Speaking as a moderator}


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fishcamp,

I want to offer to you an alternative plan of action. 

What you are getting here it the normal TAM "divorce her ASAP" advice.

There is a book that I think would help you and give you an alternative view of things.

"Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley

It's a quick read and has a lot of very solid advice.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Has she decided to separate yet?
You could be Puzzleddad's twin from some other site I forget.
VARS are NOT ever for court evidence. They are to get you ahead of an affair to catch it by conventional means and provide the betrayed spouse enough info to squash doubt that they are okay in breaking the marriage.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> fishcamp,
> 
> I want to offer to you an alternative plan of action.
> 
> ...


THERE HAS TO BE A REASON TO WANT TO SURVIVE AN AFFAIR AND NOT DIVORCE. !! How about starting with a WW that has any interest in giving up her boyfriend??? So I dont see how this is typical TAM advice, but rather id call it common sense.
And if you are referring to Dr. Hartley advice to men to play Mr. Loving husband while their wife continues to cheat for 6 months to a year, he has been doing some of that. Ain't working too well is it??? And Dr. Hartley also clearly states that most men will not be able to emotionally take this path.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> THERE HAS TO BE A REASON TO WANT TO SURVIVE AN AFFAIR AND NOT DIVORCE. !! How about starting with a WW that has any interest in giving up her boyfriend??? So I dont see how this is typical TAM advice, but rather id call it common sense


It's a multistep process to stop an affair by a betrayed spouse who wants to try to save the relationship. She's with the boyfriend NOW and has no interest in returning to the marital bed NOW but if he exposes the affair in Step One then the thought process is that after a few more steps she will be back in his arms and they can proceed to fix whatever led to the breakdown of the relationship in the first place.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

caruso said:


> It's a multistep process to stop an affair by a betrayed spouse who wants to try to save the relationship. She's with the boyfriend NOW and has no interest in returning to the marital bed NOW but if he exposes the affair in Step One then the thought process is that after a few more steps she will be back in his arms and they can proceed to fix whatever led to the breakdown of the relationship in the first place.



Like I said, the assumption above is to just suck it up and let her have her fin and play the pick me game, which most of the threads here and everywhere say rarely works. So while he goes through these steps she continues the affair and he sits and waits. Sounds like real fun.

Two partners need 100% all in to overcome infirdelity. And the only step necessary is to make her believe she has a real short time to pick the right option.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

straightshooter said:


> THERE HAS TO BE A REASON TO WANT TO SURVIVE AN AFFAIR AND NOT DIVORCE. !! How about starting with a WW that has any interest in giving up her boyfriend??? So I dont see how this is typical TAM advice, but rather id call it common sense.
> And if you are referring to Dr. Hartley advice to men to play Mr. Loving husband while their wife continues to cheat for 6 months to a year, he has been doing some of that. Ain't working too well is it??? And Dr. Hartley also clearly states that most men will not be able to emotionally take this path.


I agree.

I went thru this and read the book at that time.

The so called Plan A in the book literally made me nauseous.

I will never give advice to someone where they willingly accept being a cuckold.


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