# Stockholm Syndrome



## Ynot

For those not familiar with the term, from Wikipedia:
Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon described in 1973 in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors

I see this in so many threads I read. Where someone is telling their tales of woe, while at the same time defending their spouse.

I have to admit I still suffer occasional flare ups, when I start to get angry about my divorce. But the reality is that I shouldn't even be feeling anything remotely close to anger, the only thing I should be feeling is absolute elation that I am now no longer subject to the emotional abuse I suffered from for all those years.

Does anyone else suffer from this or have occasional flare ups?


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## MEM2020

Very common LTR/marital phenomenon from what I observe. 




Ynot said:


> For those not familiar with the term, from Wikipedia:
> Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon described in 1973 in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors
> 
> I see this in so many threads I read. Where someone is telling their tales of woe, while at the same time defending their spouse.
> 
> I have to admit I still suffer occasional flare ups, when I start to get angry about my divorce. But the reality is that I shouldn't even be feeling anything remotely close to anger, the only thing I should be feeling is absolute elation that I am now no longer subject to the emotional abuse I suffered from for all those years.
> 
> Does anyone else suffer from this or have occasional flare ups?


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## Ynot

MEM2020 said:


> Very common LTR/marital phenomenon from what I observe.


For sure, I remember when I first came here. I would post what was happening. Others would respond and I would deny, defend or excuse whatever was happening. "not my W! She would never do that!" I see it a lot, especially from newer posters. It still brings back flash backs.


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## MEM2020

Deep comprehension often produces acceptance.




Ynot said:


> For sure, I remember when I first came here. I would post what was happening. Others would respond and I would deny, defend or excuse whatever was happening. "not my W! She would never do that!" I see it a lot, especially from newer posters. It still brings back flash backs.


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## Ynot

MEM2020 said:


> Deep comprehension often produces acceptance.


Very true, but the springs run deep and sometimes surface. I am currently working my way thru complete acceptance. I accept my marriage is over, I accept that the life I lead is now my own. I accept that where I am in is where I am supposed to be. I accept that I shared some blame in the fault lines of my marriage. I accept that we are each free to pursue our own happiness. I even accept why she did it. But I keep holding on to being unable accept "how" she did it. I guess part of me remains incapable of treating someone like a piece of dog crap they need to scrape off their shoe.


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## WildMustang

Ynot said:


> For those not familiar with the term, from Wikipedia:
> Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon described in 1973 in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors
> 
> I see this in so many threads I read. Where someone is telling their tales of woe, while at the same time defending their spouse.
> 
> I have to admit I still suffer occasional flare ups, when I start to get angry about my divorce. But the reality is that I shouldn't even be feeling anything remotely close to anger, the only thing I should be feeling is absolute elation that I am now no longer subject to the emotional abuse I suffered from for all those years.
> 
> Does anyone else suffer from this or have occasional flare ups?


Yes, I have experienced this myself.

I was married 28 years, been divorced 2.5 years.

When a mistreated spouse is in a dysfunctional marriage for years and years, in order to survive in that toxic environment, the mistreated spouse has to deny and disown healthy parts of themselves in order to live with and get along with the toxic spouse. They have to learn to identify with the toxic spouse in order to survive in the relationship. They stop identifying with their own healthier states of self because those states have been discounted, demeaned, derided so much over the years, they become brainwashed into believing the toxic spouse is the healthy one. Hence, because they have had to learn to identify with the toxic spouse, they sometimes defend the toxic spouse.

Of course, the mistreated spouses often becomes just as sick as the one responsible for most of the mistreatment.

Looking back on my marriage in the rear view mirror, I now realize I became pretty "sick" myself.

I had a couple years of therapy from a well known psychologist and I cannot recommend this enough to anyone who has been in a long term dysfunctional relationship for any length of time, but especially if it was decades long.

The longer I am out of my toxic marriage, the less the Stockholm Syndrome surfaces.

It did serve a useful purpose for me though...it helped me more easily have compassion and find forgiveness, for both him and me.

I don't know your story at all, but I do know Stockholm is pretty common.

I wish you well!

BLESSINGS to YOU!!


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## MEM2020

Ynot,

You have clearly made tremendous progress. The fact that you occasionally feel bad just means you haven’t turned into an emotional zombie, that’s a good thing. 

My generalization about men/women is this:
- women are wired for kindness to the very young and old, more so than men
- women are more emotionally cruel when it comes to adult males than vice versa 





Ynot said:


> Very true, but the springs run deep and sometimes surface. I am currently working my way thru complete acceptance. I accept my marriage is over, I accept that the life I lead is now my own. I accept that where I am in is where I am supposed to be. I accept that I shared some blame in the fault lines of my marriage. I accept that we are each free to pursue our own happiness. I even accept why she did it. But I keep holding on to being unable accept "how" she did it. I guess part of me remains incapable of treating someone like a piece of dog crap they need to scrape off their shoe.


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## PieceOfSky

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1558745262/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8


And as @JohnA posted on another thread: http://www.healing-arts.org/healing_trauma_therapy/traumabonding-traumaticbonds.htm


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## WildMustang

PieceOfSky said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1558745262/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8


Excellent recommendation! I concur!


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## Red Sonja

Ynot said:


> I have to admit I still suffer occasional flare ups, when I start to get angry about my divorce. But the reality is that I shouldn't even be feeling anything remotely close to anger, the only thing I should be feeling is absolute elation that I am now no longer subject to the emotional abuse I suffered from for all those years.
> 
> Does anyone else suffer from this or have occasional flare ups?


Oh yes!

I was married for 28 years. We have been divorced with no contact (except business) for over 3 years. Yet, I still have nightmares where the themes are based on events that happened during the marriage. The nightmares are lessening in frequency with time however they still happen every 2 months or so at this point. I am told that they will eventually cease.

I also have waking moments where I will get angry over XH’s behaviors or feel shame at what I tolerated. However I have since learned that exerting personal boundaries with a narcissist (XH) are like pouring gasoline on a fire, so standing up for myself actually escalated situations instead of helping me.

These moments pass fairly quickly because I now know that I did the best I could with the emotional tools that I had at the time. In other words, I have finally learned self-compassion.


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## WildMustang

@Ynot One of the things you said really caught my attention. You said: "But the reality is that I shouldn't even be feeling anything remotely close to anger, the only thing I should be feeling is..."

Who says what you "should be feeling" or "should not be feeling?"

Who gets to determine what your feelings "should" or "should not" be???

Whatever you are feeling is valid and acceptable. Don't just dismiss your feelings because of some expectation others or you have put upon you.

Anytime I see the word "should" as related to feelings, my alarm bells go off.

I say this with kindness, respect and great compassion for the pain you have suffered.


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## Rhubarb

Ynot said:


> Does anyone else suffer from this or have occasional flare ups?


Well let's see now...... My Ex was a alcoholic, went to rehab twice, went to the hospital for alcohol poisoning several times, plus we had the private paramedics at our house a bunch of times, she cheated on me with at least one guy and looking back probably more, she was verbally and when drunk even physically abusive forcing me to go to a hotel with my son, and she is STILL bad enough that my 10 year old son made the decision on his own to come live with me a couple of months ago.........Do I have occasional flare ups? ..... Never!


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## Ynot

WildMustang said:


> @Ynot One of the things you said really caught my attention. You said: "But the reality is that I shouldn't even be feeling anything remotely close to anger, the only thing I should be feeling is..."
> 
> Who says what you "should be feeling" or "should not be feeling?"
> 
> Who gets to determine what your feelings "should" or "should not" be???
> 
> Whatever you are feeling is valid and acceptable. Don't just dismiss your feelings because of some expectation others or you have put upon you.
> 
> Anytime I see the word "should" as related to feelings, my alarm bells go off.
> 
> I say this with kindness, respect and great compassion for the pain you have suffered.


I get what you are saying, but I wasn't referring to anyone else's expectations as to how I should feel. I was talking about my own. Looking back it is a very good thing I am no longer in that situation. I had allowed myself to become the victim. I am better off not being in that environment. I now have more money, more freedom, more time, more flexibility and more options or opportunities today than I ever would have had before. So, there is no real reason for me to be angry about it. She did me a favor (although I am sure she doesn't see things that way) by walking out. So I feel as though I shouldn't even be entertaining thoughts of anger, when the reality it is I should be feeling gratitude.


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## WildMustang

Ynot said:


> I get what you are saying, but I wasn't referring to anyone else's expectations as to how I should feel. I was talking about my own. Looking back it is a very good thing I am no longer in that situation. I had allowed myself to become the victim. I am better off not being in that environment. I now have more money, more freedom, more time, more flexibility and more options or opportunities today than I ever would have had before. So, there is no real reason for me to be angry about it. She did me a favor (although I am sure she doesn't see things that way) by walking out. So I feel as though I shouldn't even be entertaining thoughts of anger, when the reality it is I should be feeling gratitude.


I also get what you are saying - I do. I hear you. But, sometimes we ourselves put expectations on ourselves for what we think we "should feel" when what we actually do feel is valid.

Anger is good. It serves a good purpose. Allow yourself to feel it, if you do. 

When we block or repress one emotion, such as anger, it also blocks or represses other emotions, such as joy and excitement.

Good for you for dropping the victim mentality and getting out of that toxic environment! So happy to hear you are doing well! 

BLESSINGS to you! :smile2:


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## SunnyT

Ynot said:


> I get what you are saying, but I wasn't referring to anyone else's expectations as to how I should feel. I was talking about my own. Looking back it is a very good thing I am no longer in that situation. I had allowed myself to become the victim. I am better off not being in that environment. I now have more money, more freedom, more time, more flexibility and more options or opportunities today than I ever would have had before. So, there is no real reason for me to be angry about it. She did me a favor (although I am sure she doesn't see things that way) by walking out. So I feel as though I shouldn't even be entertaining thoughts of anger, when the reality it is I should be feeling gratitude.[/QUOTEs
> 
> This could describe how I felt when my ex H left. I really was pissed. I thought he really have some nerve..... to leave ME, when I was the one trying, I was the one holding things together, I was the one working on the kids, the family, the atmosphere, the finances, etc.... And yes, I was relieved. Relieved of those duties.... and I said too that it was the best thing he'd ever done for me.
> 
> I also had a mantra, (because it was an odd, confusing time....after 23 years and 5 kids).... it was: "Thank you and F you". I also think acceptance is optional, as is forgiveness. I don't think it means that I am a bitter, angry person if I don't accept his ways, or forgive his trespasses. I'm fine. (Way better than fine.) And I don't care how he is.
> 
> My point.... maybe you can get to a place where the acceptance itself doesn't even matter. Like how we sometimes have to accept that there is no closure, there is no understanding, there is no knowing "why"....


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## sokillme

Yeah. Think it's pretty common. I think it's why some of us in good or even bad marriages who are not abusive ones are shocked at some of the awful stuff you read people are willing to put up with. Some of the abuse you read about makes you think that to get to the point that a person would put up with this stuff there must have been some pretty extreme stuff already going on for years that was normalized. So this even worse stuff just seems like small excess to the abused spouse. 

Like if you are living life at an abusive level of 7 when it goes to 10 it's just 3 points worse. However when you see it from the outside it's like you are on 0 and they are on 10. That's shocking if you get my explanation. 

It's also why I am quick to ask if this is the person's only relationship or get their relationship history because maybe they don't know any better. Also a lot of people who post on these sites especially sites like SI are also living in relationships where the abuse level is like a 6 so they may not be the bet judge of how bed the abuse is.

One thing I will say though is you don't have to have Stockholm Syndrome to live with an abusive partner. My Mom knew the whole time my step father was abusive, but she wouldn't divorce him because it was a sin. sigh.


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## Bananapeel

I don't think it's Stockholm syndrome at all. That usually applies when a captive bonds to their captor. With a marriage you ideally entered into it because of love and had a lot of good times together. So those positive feeling you had for your wife and your need to defend her weren't based on being captive but rather on true feelings of love that developed naturally during your relationship. When I found my wife cheating I was torn emotionally, like you were. But it was because the feelings of love took longer to fade (about a year) than the development of anger (instantly). So essentially, I felt both at the same time and there was a mismatch between all of my emotions. Luckily they are all in the past now and I just don't care anymore.


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## MovingForward

I am 7 Months divorced and generally happy, moved on, dont want to be with my X etc but still have moments of anger at how she treated me, how she lied and made me feel so bad about myself and how even know she does not acknowledge she did anything wrong!!! I also have occasional feelings of pity for her, not sure if it is because I looked after her for so long or because I know she is not all bad or she is the mother of the kids but I do feel bad sometimes when people talk Ill of her and for the friends she has lost. I dont know maybe I am just a sucker though.

I never expected to be in a position where I have no contact at all overnight after we spent 12 years together, never expected to not have any relationship at all with the mother of my kids.


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## Married but Happy

Bananapeel said:


> I don't think it's Stockholm syndrome at all. That usually applies when a captive bonds to their captor. ...


I think you may be right about this.

However, once things begin to deteriorate, marriage becomes a hostage situation.

Unless one escapes, a S.W.A.T. team is needed for extraction.


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## Red Sonja

Bananapeel said:


> I don't think it's Stockholm syndrome at all. That usually applies when a captive bonds to their captor.


True. However long-term abuse by a captor, spouse, parent (etc.) still results in a Trauma Bond. Stockholm Syndrome is just one type of Trauma Bond.


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## jacko

I found this thread after Googling "Stockholm Syndrome and Divorce." What a revelation to see I'm not alone (or crazy to think I may be suffering from this).

I've been divorced nearly 4 years from a 10-year marriage. I cut off all contact with her 2 years ago and I can list scores of reasons why I'm soooo much better off now. I'm even in a new relationship with an amazing woman that I know I can trust. But yet I'm still consumed with rage about my ex's betrayal. Not a day goes by when I don't have an imaginary argument with her. And on top of it, I now feel bad about still feeling this way after so long. My marriage was, by definition, abusive -- emotionally. I feel no sympathy for my ex. Quite the contrary. But I'm still haunted by the whole thing. Six months ago, I heard she's marrying the man with whom she cheated on me -- so that's brought it to the forefront again. But still, I desperately want -- NEED -- to be free of this. Could this be some form of PTSD? Do I still feel "connected" to her in some strange way? Even if that connection is a completely negative one?

Has anyone tried any sort of non-traditional therapy? I've had lots of "talk therapy" and its helped a lot. But I'm sensing I need something different; perhaps more radical.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

WildMustang said:


> I also get what you are saying - I do. I hear you. But, sometimes we ourselves put expectations on ourselves for what we think we "should feel" when what we actually do feel is valid.
> 
> Anger is good. It serves a good purpose. Allow yourself to feel it, if you do.
> 
> When we block or repress one emotion, such as anger, it also blocks or represses other emotions, such as joy and excitement.
> 
> Good for you for dropping the victim mentality and getting out of that toxic environment! So happy to hear you are doing well!
> 
> BLESSINGS to you! :smile2:


Unfortunately not blocking anger makes it a lot harder to block fist from going through wall.


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## Ynot

jacko said:


> I found this thread after Googling "Stockholm Syndrome and Divorce." What a revelation to see I'm not alone (or crazy to think I may be suffering from this).
> 
> I've been divorced nearly 4 years from a 10-year marriage. I cut off all contact with her 2 years ago and I can list scores of reasons why I'm soooo much better off now. I'm even in a new relationship with an amazing woman that I know I can trust. But yet I'm still consumed with rage about my ex's betrayal. Not a day goes by when I don't have an imaginary argument with her. And on top of it, I now feel bad about still feeling this way after so long. My marriage was, by definition, abusive -- emotionally. I feel no sympathy for my ex. Quite the contrary. But I'm still haunted by the whole thing. Six months ago, I heard she's marrying the man with whom she cheated on me -- so that's brought it to the forefront again. But still, I desperately want -- NEED -- to be free of this. Could this be some form of PTSD? Do I still feel "connected" to her in some strange way? Even if that connection is a completely negative one?
> 
> Has anyone tried any sort of non-traditional therapy? I've had lots of "talk therapy" and its helped a lot. But I'm sensing I need something different; perhaps more radical.


No, you are not alone. I am triggered at times my self. I can go days or weeks without even thinking about what happened to me and then something will set me off. 
I was recently sent an invitation to my grandson's first birthday party. I know she will be there. She might even be there with her new beau. I really don't know. But I wouldn't put it past her. I have imagined all the things I want to say to her, time and time again. Then I do realize the futility of it all. I don't her back. She was toxic. Besides that if she didn't have a clue then why would I think she would now?
My recommendation is to keep having those arguments in your mind. Run them out to their conclusions and take the time to realize, it aint worth it. Eventually it will sink in.


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## Ynot

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Unfortunately not blocking anger makes it a lot harder to block fist from going through wall.


There is a difference between controlling one's anger and blocking it. I agree blocking is bad. Suppressing a feeling is not good, that doesn't mean you act on that emotion, only that you feel it. If you never feel it, you can never explore it, to find out where it coming from and how to pull it out by the roots.


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## Keke24

Ynot said:


> There is a difference between controlling one's anger and blocking it. I agree blocking is bad. Suppressing a feeling is not good, that doesn't mean you act on that emotion, only that you feel it. If you never feel it, you can never explore it, *to find out where it coming from and how to pull it out by the roots.*


This! This has been the most educational tool that I've gleaned from therapy. Of course the tools for then addressing the triggers are helpful but boy is that level of awareness inciteful. Recognizing my triggers, my response to them and the source from my childhood is what is really helping me break free from the Stockholm syndrome. That process has facilitated a more objective view of my abusive parents and the impact their actions has had on my mental health.


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## WildMustang

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Unfortunately not blocking anger makes it a lot harder to block fist from going through wall.


I could be wrong, but I get the sense that you believe it is noble, even heroic - a virture - to avoid feeling or expressing anger. 

Feeling and expressing anger is not a sin. It can serve a very useful and healthy purpose *IF* you allow it. 

You cannot selectively block or numb one emotion. When you try to, you block and numb them all, which makes it harder to feel and express the ones you prefer, such as joy, excitement, happiness, etc.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

WildMustang said:


> I could be wrong, but I get the sense that you believe it is noble, even heroic - a virture - to avoid feeling or expressing anger.
> 
> Feeling and expressing anger is not a sin. It can serve a very useful and healthy purpose *IF* you allow it.
> 
> You cannot selectively block or numb one emotion. When you try to, you block and numb them all, which makes it harder to feel and express the ones you prefer, such as joy, excitement, happiness, etc.


You are wrong... partly. 

I know feeling is essential, expressing somewhat less so. Nobody else needs to see my negativity. 

It is one of my critical functions in life (at least as I see it) to lift those around me, not unload on them. Time and time again, people have marveled at how wonderful it is to be around someone who doesn't complain, and is always upbeat. Even all my performance appraisals have consistently praised me for raising the performance not only of my subordinates, but also that of my peers. 

I don't think of it as being heroic; just being a good human being. 

And I am, for the most part, a very casual, carefree guy. But there have been times _in the distant past _I had to be handy with a plaster patch kit. I've learned pretty well how to balance things since my 30s (I'm now in my 50s). 

As I responded to @Ynot, my post was meant to be more tongue in cheek. I guess I should have picked a clever emoji to help make that point :nerd:


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## EleGirl

Ynot said:


> For sure, I remember when I first came here. I would post what was happening. Others would respond and I would deny, defend or excuse whatever was happening. "not my W! She would never do that!" I see it a lot, especially from newer posters. It still brings back flash backs.


What is interesting is that some recent studies have been done that seem to explain how the Stockholm Syndrome happens.

For example studies have been done on children who are in abusive homes. They found that the children's brains over produce and uptake oxytocin, dopamine, etc. They believe that it's the brain's protective mechanisms that cause this. Oxytocin has a couple of nick names.. the bonding hormone and the amnesia hormone. 

So when a kid is abused they hyper bond to their abuser. On top of that the amnesia affect kicks in, meaning that their memory of the abuse is greatly minimized.

When a woman gives birth, her brain gets a huge dosage of oxytocin. The purpose of this is to mask the pain and help her bond to the very creature who is causing her the pain.. her baby. I've heard it said if there was not oxytocin, there would never be a second child. I believe it.

The studies have found that females are more likely to have this hormone reaction to abuse. But both men and women do it to some degree.

Other studies have found that adults who are in abusive relationships also have this exaggerated hormone respoense as a self protection mechanism. And that explains the Stockholm Syndrome.


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## BluesPower

Whether or not it is Stockholm Syndrome, or trauma bonding, or just what ever. 

It is a thing that we all go through. And I think that a better analogy is the frog in boiling water. 

If you gradually turn up the heat, the frog does not think anything is wrong, until he dies. 

This is what goes on with this stuff. If I at anytime in my 26 year marriage actually understood what was going on with her, I would have divorced her at once. But when it builds up over time, when your life is one crisis after another, for years and years and years, you don't realize what is going on. 

For me, the only thing that woke me up enough, the only thing that gave me clarity, was when I had a stoke. It scared me so bad that I could have died, that I finally had some sense of clarity, and I was able to see that what I was going through was completely crazy. Further, if I did not make changes ASAP, I was going to die. 

Something like that will wake you up in the morning, let me tell you. 

Of course it did not hurt that she came up to the hospital, wasted and causing trouble. And finally I had to have her removed by security. That was one of several straws that let me know I had to get out. 

To OP, what you are going through is so completely normal that it is common place. 

With time and separation, you will heal. The funny thing is that when the Crazy Ex spouse finally understands that you want nothing to do with them, ever, they get even crazier, but by then it is not your circus or your monkeys...


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