# Is it PMS or Something More?



## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

I found this site while trying to get some insight into my circumstances and am glad that I did.

I have been married for 11 years and we have two small children. I work and my wife is a "stay at home" mom. She has had a problem in the past with PMS making her depressed but this time it feels different to me and I don't know it is because there is more to it, or because of other things magnifying it.

She is active in adult recreational soccer and has two teams. Her favorite team has recently been shook up by some infighting and the prospect that some members will be leaving has caused her some distress. This happenned at about the time when her PMS starts to kick in. 

Her mood has become one of malaise and sadness. Whats worse though is it is all directed at me. She doesn't answer the phone when I call, gets mad easily, doesn't initiate conversation with me and generally seems annoyed with my pressence.

I finally got her talking last night and she simply says that she "doesn't feel happy with her life". What kills me about this is that this is the life that she designed and that I have worked so hard to provide her. I can't get her to really site any specifics, she's just sad. It all happenned suddenly enough that I want to believe it is PMS but why would a women do this kind of damage to a relationship based on a temporary issue?

Any insight is appreciated.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Paulination said:


> It all happenned suddenly enough that I want to believe it is PMS but why would a women do this kind of damage to a relationship based on a temporary issue?


I read an article about women with PMS and it said that the only thing that changes during that time is the women's ability to hide her feelings. It's more then likely that she always feels this way and it will slowly get worse. Maybe she's ready to do something different with her life but doesnt know what to do.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

How long has she been like this? How old is she?


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I have PMS very badly! It runs among the women in our family. When I was a teen, I was not allowed to show any anger or express my opinions. I've learned to control it and I have to remove myself if possible and stay in a quiet room. It lasts only a few days per month. My mother always showed her PMS. It's rude. My daughter has it just as bad, I send her to her room. I also get very hungry a week prior.

I feel so angry that I want to shout at everyone, but I keep it to myself. Some months are better then others. Once I get my period, its over. Some women get very emotional and cry at any moment. It's a real thing, but there are ways to manage it. I have much worse things to deal with then PMS. I also get homromal migraines.

Us women run mainly off emotions. The best thing you can do is communicate with your wife. Let her know when she's out of line. If I do get cranky, my husband will kindly let me know and tell me I should take a break or a nap for a while. My PMS has never gotten in the way of our marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Does the sadness follow her menstrual cycle?
Because if it's PMS she should feel better/happy once her period starts until mid month...when slowly the PMS symptoms start to increase again.

If she's sad all the time then she has depression...not PMS.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> How long has she been like this? How old is she?


She's 32. As long as I have known her PMS has been an issue from time to time.

Things are generally tolerable with her when she does have it unless something else happens in her life then she gets in a deep funk. The situation I described above I'm hoping the catalyst for how she feels now and that it will clear up in a few days.

The way she has been treating me is hurtful and I have told her so but she seems incapable of expressing any empathy. I can't imagine knowingly treating someone this way and not feeling anything towards it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So when she has these episodes, are they following her menstrual cycles?

Sounds like she may need medical and/or psychological intervention if she isn't able to control it.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> So when she has these episodes, are they following her menstrual cycles?
> 
> Sounds like she may need medical and/or psychological intervention if she isn't able to control it.


Starts one to two weeks before her period.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

What's the "P" for? Permanent?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Paulination said:


> Starts one to two weeks before her period.


If that's as long as it lasts meaning it ends once she starts then it's PMS. Depending on how bad it is there are two ways to beat PMS. One is through lifestyle changes. You know diet, exercise and taking it easy on those days. The other is meds. Lexapro and Prozac are commonly prescribed for PMS and can be taken just for those two weeks as needed.

Like your wife I can manage my PMS just fine unless something big happens. During those times I take Lexapro which to me is a much better option than yelling at everyone. LOL


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

Does your wife have any other female issues?

I only ask because in my family, female problems seem to be extremely common. My mom ended up having a hysterectomy after having her tubes tied 10yrs prior.

Her hormone balance mixed with severe endometriosis and..I want to say andiometriosis (something sounding similar to that) was causing her to never break from her pms. 

She just got progressively worse through the years, it went from one week of completely unable to keep herself together, to two weeks, to the entire month. I know too that with mine, while I usually just avoid people (because i just get mean, she's an inconsolable crier) if something sets me off, I can't stop it. I can hear what I'm saying, I am conscious that its not right, but I cannot stop it for the life of me, its like watching myself in 3rd person view. (I too have my moms issues, so I understood what she was talking about when she was telling me about the hysterectomy pre-surgery.) 

She very well may just have an imbalance related to her lady parts, which isn't too hard to deal with, unless she refuses hormone treatments (like me) or just outright refuses to go to the doctors. Show general concern for her well being not specifically the pms itself. No one likes to have their pms thrown in their face.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

CLucas976 said:


> No one likes to have their pms thrown in their face.


Trust me, I haven't even gone there yet. I'll wait untill things settle down a bit. As far as other problems, nothing that I can think of. Shes adopted so her family history is unavailable.

The thing that I find so troubling is she can't define the problem. She's just "unhappy". The problem is that I have no way of making her happy because she has everything she wants or needs (as far as I can tell).

She stays at home with the kids (her desire and it took alot of effort on my part to make it happen), she has her own activities (her soccer league) which I pay for and support, a loving husband, two great kids etc... yet she is unhappy.

If this is what unhappiness looks like then I would hate to see true misery. I can't help but actually feel offended and resentful at the way she is treating me given all that I do for her. These are all things I can't say to her at the moment.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> If that's as long as it lasts meaning it ends once she starts then it's PMS. Depending on how bad it is there are two ways to beat PMS. One is through lifestyle changes. You know diet, exercise and taking it easy on those days. The other is meds. Lexapro and Prozac are commonly prescribed for PMS and can be taken just for those two weeks as needed.
> 
> Like your wife I can manage my PMS just fine unless something big happens. During those times I take Lexapro which to me is a much better option than yelling at everyone. LOL


I think that's funny. I almost decked the nurse practitioner who told me to take prozac for my pms. her response was "it'll help the crying" and I responded with "I don't f* ing cry, I just get angry"

but maybe too, an overall hormone balancing rx would help? maybe like a low dosage birth control?

I know that my pms was much easier as was my period on birth control, high dose ones even turned me into some overly happy lunatic (in comparison to my usual temperment) and if it wasn't for the other side effects I don't like, I'd take them now just for that reason.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

i'm peri-menopausal and was having terrible (and frightening) PMS symptoms. I now take a herb called Chaste berry (Vitex).

It has been a life saver for me (probably literally)... it may not be right for everyones situation athough it will help many women with low progesterone and PMS and it has no side effects.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

I've been doing alot of research online about PMS symptoms or even PMDD and have read alot of posts of women describing almost exactly what my wife has been doing. I think the fact that she says "she's unhappy with her life" but can't articulate any reason why is evidence of that.

I mean, she has a great life by all accounts. She's happy most of the time and she's well taken care of. There are no abuse issue in the house, no real money woes nothing. Just suddenly she is in a major funk and taking it out on me.

She visited her mom last night aqnd her mom told me she really couldn't come up with any reason why she is unhappy either. All my wife could say is she doesn't want a divorce and is not interested in any other men but doesn't know what she wants to do beyond that. I'm counting down the days to her period (Thursday) to see if anything changes. For the sake of our marriage I hope thats the case because I can't live like this forever.


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## truumarriage (Feb 8, 2012)

I tend to get sad a week or two prior to my period. Sometimes I don't feel like interacting much during those times and I try my best to let others know that it's nothing personal. I hope you and your wife can get past this, try giving her a little time. Good luck to you both. (Love your icon by the way!)


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

waiwera said:


> i'm peri-menopausal and was having terrible (and frightening) PMS symptoms. I now take a herb called Chaste berry (Vitex).
> 
> It has been a life saver for me (probably literally)... it may not be right for everyones situation athough it will help many women with low progesterone and PMS and it has no side effects.


oh my, thank you. upon doing some research that supplement might actually help ME out a bit with my female issues 

you have no idea the time I've invested looking for any sort of non-hormone supplement that might help me out!


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

somtimes SAHM's really do need to work part time.

Soccer league gets her out of the house and active, but if it's riddled with politics and people not getting along, then maybe she isn't getting any gratification out of it.

working can give someone that. A sense of self accomplishment. Like they are getting somwhere in life. That's not easy for some women to admit, either. Especially if you worked really hard to make that happen in the first place. 

A general sense of unhappiness sometimes refers to not knowing what your purpose in life, besides being a mom. PMS can certainly exagerate that at times. 

Just a thought.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Well her period started a little early (last night) so how long after does the emotional side of PMS begin to fade. We had a pleasent evening last night which partly was because I didn't mention our issues at all and just stayed happy and upbeat around her regardless of how I felt.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

A couple of thoughts. I used to coach youth teams. When the kids like each other and enjoy playing as a team, coaching them is a wonderful thing. When you get one or two players that are disatisfied, not rally team players it can wreck the whole experience. I imagine with adults it would be much worseand that is happening on one of your wifes teams.

When you list all the wonderful things your wife shoul be thankful for you are mainly listing things. You should be listing the things that count emotionally with a woman. This is a personal, relationship,emotional, spiritual issue.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Well since Friday her mood and demeanor has improved greatly to the point where we were three weeks ago before I knew there was an issue. This tells me ofcourse that PMS along with the events that distressed her with her team was what was mostly behind the way she was acting. BUT, there is a lesson to be learned here from my end. I am going to finish the thought on my other thread in the "Infedelity section" so I am not posting the same thought twice.

Thank you for your advice.

Paul


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Well it is not all roses, not by a long shot. Her moment to moment demeanor has improved but she still believes our marriage has problems which she obviously blames on me. 

If you were a fly on the wall you would realize how rediculous that is. We were what I thought a perfectly happy family. Then three weeks ago it all changed suddenly (at least as I understood it).

The few things I do know:

There is no other man. I have checked her phone records, text records, emails and facebook. There is simply nothing. Plus she is a SAHM with a 3 year old and 6 year old and there simply is no opportunity. I can account for every moment (not that I normally check but since this began...).

We agreed yesterday to work on the marriage but she won't talk about it now. She says she is trying not to think about it. 

The thing is that I don't know why she is unhappy and apparently niether does she. Shes a SAHM (which was what she wanted), she has her soccer 2 nights a week, she has her hobbies, we own our home, she has two great kids, and I have been a good husband (no abuse of any kind), a good father and a good lover. 

I see in many ways how I am a beta male (though I thought I was alpha) and I am working on that (I'm reading No More Mr Nice Guy) but I can't fathom how a women who gets what she wants and need could turn on the one who provides it.

I actually feel myself falling out of love with her at the moment. Freakin needless slow death of what was wonderful three weeks ago (at least I thought it was). I wonder if this some kind of game to her to make me more submissive or what.

Here we are on this last christmas.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

You sound like a good husband, father, etc.
Only thing I will mention is that everything you are giving her.. is material. One can be living in a nice house, have hobbies, be busy, be fulfilled, but if they don't feel "loved", or have very much confidence, that can over rule anything else.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

deejov said:


> You sound like a good husband, father, etc.
> Only thing I will mention is that everything you are giving her.. is material. One can be living in a nice house, have hobbies, be busy, be fulfilled, but if they don't feel "loved", or have very much confidence, that can over rule anything else.


It is material but I also give so much more. I am attentive, I listen and I try to be affectionate all the time in a non-sexual way.

Anyway, that all is over for a while. We got into it again last night and now I come to find out that she blames her weight gain on me and the circumstances as well. She works out pretty hard and is on Jenny Craig but she still can't lose weight and seems to be gaining a little. She does have a thyroid imbalance for which she takes medication but lately it isn't working and apparently it is my fault.

Last night she kept saying that she needs time and finally I asked her "well how long do you think you need?" she said a couple of months. So there it is, I am going to leave her alone for the next two months. I am going to do the 180 treatment and work on bettering myself. I can't think of what else to do. Any suggestions?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Ah, the thyroid condition.
I have that myself. It's a hormone. It can REALLY affect your moods. And effect the ability to lose weight, and make you really tired, etc. 

Is it fair to abandon her emotionally at this point because she has a medical condition? (I view the 180 as a last ditch effort, and it is meant to emotionally distance yourself in preparation for seperating)

Would you consider the option that maybe you could be supportive for a couple of months instead?

Not really fair to blame it on you, but does she get punished for it?

If she gets to a doctor, gets her labs tested, and increases her meds she might start to feel better witin a week. 

There is also a supplement L-Tyrosine that can be purchased at a health food store. It helps the thyroid meds work better. Take 2 - 6 a day, depending on what your needs are. 

I'm not kidding about how lousy this condition can make you feel. 
Feeling crappy for a long time can certainly hurt your self esteem as well. I hope she is able to get this straightened out soon.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

deejov said:


> Is it fair to abandon her emotionally at this point because she has a medical condition? (I view the 180 as a last ditch effort, and it is meant to emotionally distance yourself in preparation for seperating)


I'm having a tough time descerning what is fair anymore. My wife has always had mood swings and has gone in a funk before but she never really turned on me to the extent that she has. All at a time when I am putting so much effort into her happiness. The woman has mentally checked out of the marriage and no matter how many times we talk about it and try to come up with a plan to work on the marriage, nothing happens.

We made a little list for each of us of things to work on. On my list of things to work on was: 
1) I'm too snappy with kids after work
2) She thinks I drink too much
3) Cranky at night
4) Don't spend enough free time with the kids doing dad stuff.

Her list to work on:

1) Wear you freakin wedding band (more on that in a minute)
2) Be a little more attentive to me
3) Subtle affections (a hug now and then, cuddling or holding hands, maybe a kiss or two).

I ofcourse disagree with my list but I didn't argue. Just said "I'm sorry that you've had these concerns and I'll work on them". So I drink less, I haven't snapped at the kids in over three weeks, my demeanor has been golden and I have been spending more quality time with the kids.

Do you think I get any feedback whatsoever? Ofcourse not.

How much of her list do you think she got to? Nothing. As a matter of fact, I got the dreaded "I have no sex drive" the other night so now there is that.

Lets talk about the wedding ring. She started taking it off when she plays soccer because she felt it might fall off. I get that. She takes it off when she takes a shower (she always did that). But now, she always forgets to put it back on. When I point out the fact that she is not wearing it, she goes to the room and gets it but seems annoyed. Why wouldn't she accomodate a small simple physical gesture such as wearing your ring when she knows how much it means to me? I don't think there is a deeper reason for not wearing it, it is just her care for my wants are less then her effort to remember.

I don't want to seem angry but my patience is waning at this point. Her mom offers to take her to her therapist, she says she'll think about it but doesn't go. I give the phone number to a therapist network through my work, do you think she'll call? 

She does nothing while I work all day and pine away for her at night and I'm sick of it. I absolutely have no idea how another human being can act like this.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

You sound very frustrated, and that is understandable.
You are trying and not seeing the results you want.

If medical and \ or mental issues are ruled out, then I would be telling you to put your foot down and behave in a way that leads to respect, mutally. Not a whole lot of good comes from tit-for-tat, except proving who can be meaner. All you can do is control yourself, and help her. 

That said, I can only say from my experiences that a low thyroid issue can cause all or most of the issues you are describing. It's often mis diagnosed as depression. 

I felt a similar way. Except worse. But it didn't go on for months... I got my butt to the dr. and got it fixed only because I was aware that I was at risk for having hypothyroid. 

Please make sure she gets to a doctor and gets that ruled out \ straightened out. If her thyroid levels are in the normal range, and she doesn't improve, maybe she is depressed. That's a whole other issue on it's own.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

deejov said:


> You sound very frustrated, and that is understandable.
> You are trying and not seeing the results you want.
> 
> If medical and \ or mental issues are ruled out, then I would be telling you to put your foot down and behave in a way that leads to respect, mutally.


I put the foot down just not on the throat. She explained that she doesn't do well with ultimatums. I want to call her bluff by picking up divorce papers but she is so stubborn she would probably help fill them out in order to call mine.

I'm not ready to give up especially since I have a 6 and 3 year old but yeah, I'm frustrated as hell.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Paulination said:


> She explained that she doesn't do well with ultimatums.


Translation: Back off and let me do whatever I want and behave as badly as I want.

Sometimes the best thing you can do is focus on YOU and let the other person wallow in whatever problems THEY have.

Let the chips fall where they may.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Paulination said:


> I put the foot down just not on the throat. She explained that she doesn't do well with ultimatums. I want to call her bluff by picking up divorce papers but she is so stubborn she would probably help fill them out in order to call mine.
> 
> I'm not ready to give up especially since I have a 6 and 3 year old but yeah, I'm frustrated as hell.


Yes I can read the frustration. And I'm trying to tell you it's too soon to take this personally. Because she has hormones all whacked out of shape. It's possible (yes, possible) that she isn't to blame for this. 

Send her to the dr. She might be a totally different person in a week with the right meds. Just saying. You are fighting a medical condition here, not her.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

I will do that. I'm just eliminating some variables first like possible EA. I put a keylogger on the computer today to try to get a better insight into what is bothering her (maybe she'll confide in a friend). If I don't find an EA or anything useful, then it must be medical and I'll go from there. Thanks.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

I talked to my wife about her thyroid and apparently she had her levels checked in November and they were normal. I am not convinced that there still might be a problem there so I told her we need to get a second opinion and another test from a new physician whom I am seeing who is just great. I told her I will make the appointment and take her to it.

I have come to the conclusion that though there might be a medical compnent to this, there definatley is an emotional one as well. No EA or PA as confirmed by my snooping but she is profoundly unsettled in the relationship and I am at a point where every move I make is critical.

I am hoping that by solving the medial side, it will help her cope with the emotional better.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Stop The Thyroid Madness is an excellent resource for puzzling thyroid issues. They have a book, too, though I haven't read it (I have several other books). I was given thyroid medication a year ago and my doctor just doubled my dose. It went undiagnosed for years--maybe since I was a teenager.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

I had a blow out with my wife last night that ended with her staying at her moms for the evening. I am just so tired of working on the marriage and watching her do nothing that it kind of hit a head. This is probably our sixth o seventh fight in the last two weeks over this and they always seem to occur late at night. I am just done trying.

I give her a book (Divorce Busting) and she won't read the book. I give her a number for a counselor, she won't call. NOTHING.

I think I may have figured out part of the problem and that is she is so opposed to sex right now that any hint of affection or that the marriage might be getting better might cause me to try. Freakin insulting.

I told her that is she would just work on the marriage the sex wouldn't be an issue. If she doens't want it, fine for now but at least work on the marriage so the other parts of this get better.

My coworker definately thinks its depression since she say she felt the same way when she was depressed.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Sorry to hear this.
Maybe the coworker is right. 
Unfortunately, I don't know what you can do to help, other than getting her to a dr. for help. 

Is there family or friends that she can talk to?

Sometimes, those closest to us are the ones we cannot take advice from. Or we won't do what they ask us to. Stubborn?

I know you seemed like you wanted to fix things, maybe she has to come up with her own solution. You are done trying now, she will either try to repair things, or be happy to live as room-mates.

Is there ANY resentment going on? Any chance she would come here to read \ post?


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

deejov said:


> Is there ANY resentment going on? Any chance she would come here to read \ post?


I noticed she seemed down about a month ago and probed her and it came out that she was not happy and hasn't been for a few years. This from what I can see is in direct contrast to what I have experienced in her. She also said she has lost her libido.

When I spied on her facebook chat she told a friend that "something is missing" and that "I just don't feel the same way about him".

We have gotten into numerous fights about this (her unhappiness not the spying), most of them started as a discussion that progressed into a fight as I have a hard time not feeling rejected.

I'm torn as to what is really going on. My wife has had a problem with depression in the past (especially after a bad event in her life) as well as her thyroid. She is currently on a thoroid medicine (synthoid) but she is showing signs that it may not be working (though her DR said her levels were normal last November.

I want to believe it is medical and not her true feelings. The evidence I keep falling back on is:

1) She exercises alot and plays soccer twice a week and is on Jenny Craig but still can't lose weight.

2) Her other hobby after soccer is scrapbooking and the last time she did that was coincidentally the same night she told me how she felt. She used to scrapbook every night. I even bought the Criket machine she has wanted the last three years but she has barely used it.

3) She can barely articulate what she is sad about. She really had to think about it and then said "You snap too often at the kids and I think you drink too much". The snapping at the kids stopped that night and I cut back on the drinking but nothing has changed with her.

4) When this started she just had something bad happen with her soccer team that threatened to dismantle it. She was VERY sad about this at the time. The situation is better now but she is not.

5) No sex drive any longer. She has tried to convince me that she hasn't had one for awhile and that sex was just about keeping me satisfied but looking back I don't see it that way.
She never initiated it but she was always enthusiastic during the act and had no problem having orgasms. Always more then one (3 or 4) were usual.

Evidence it might all be me,

1) Just that she says it is.


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