# Move out or stay put?



## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Hi everyone, 

I could really use some advice and guidance. I am trying to decide whether it is more fiscally responsible for me to stay in my home and ask the STBX to leave or should I move out into a rental given that it is highly doubtful that he will pay the mortgage which will lead me into foreclosure. 

Here is my current thought process: 

STAY: 
- no need to relocate dogs or find a rental proper that will allow 4 dogs
- no need to divide and move furniture 
- STBX has always bragged, and actually can, that he can get in any door which means he could come back at any time her wanted and get in (he would not harm anyone and I am not concerned about my safety, I just need to get away and stay away until I am in a better frame of mind)
- tax benefits to home ownership 
- maintenance could be costly and I may not be able to afford it one income but I guess I already am since he spends his money rather freely 
- can decide at a later time about selling house 


RENT and MOVE 
- no tax benefit 
- no worries about maintenance or cost
- may be difficult to find a home that will allow 4 dogs 
- STBX will not have new address - he is over the road so I plan to move before he returns home and change my phone number. Before you ask, No, the children are grown so we do not have that situation to deal with. 
- will need to move furniture, come up with rent and security deposit 
- will cost more with pets if allowed 
- will have peace of mind with a fresh start (I can't have any communication with him, he confuses me and then I feel like I want to work things out and end up repeating the same scenario in 3 months) 
- will have to work on selling home ASAP 


I welcome everyone's feedback but please be kind, I am also dealing with the death of my 2 month old granddaughter last month and I really cannot handle any harsh criticism or judgments right now. :crying: I'm an emotional wreck so making a decision now is probably not a good idea but I need to do something....
I just need some good advice about making the right decision that is best for my mental state right now.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Since there is more than an aura of dissolution here, I'd recommend that you discuss it with your family attorney, as state laws about this subject matter can vary greatly!*


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

arbitrator said:


> *Since there is more than an aura of dissolution here, I'd recommend that you discuss it with your family attorney, as state laws about this subject matter can vary greatly!*


Here's the problem with that, I cannot afford an attorney because I just paid a $9,000 retainer to another attorney for a different matter. I have no money left for another attorney but I need to get out....and I need to cut off all communication for at least 3-6 months.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I also say in your current state of mind, get some IC and start the process of getting your thoughts firmly in place, before a life changing decision. Because without any further info it could lead you in the wrong direction. But if you share you may not be ready for the forwardness and honest postings.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Your safety is the most important thing. And by that, I mean not only your physical safety but your mental and emotional safety too. So none of your pro/con list matters if he would be able to enter your home at will.

The second thing is your good credit. Look into selling your home as soon as possible. Also, speak with a divorce attorney. He can't stay in the house and deliberately not pay the mortgage. You might be eligible for spousal support during the separation, and it can be garnished from his pay. You can use that money to pay the mortgage. Your lawyer will be best able to advise you on this. Plus, you'll know what to expect and where you stand when the time comes that you're ready to file for divorce. I have to say though that if you've been living dependently on your own income, then you might not be able to expect much, but it's surely worth looking into.

The third thing is the dogs. I know you love them, but you will have to consider placing 2 or 3 of them with other loving families. Sacrifice is necessary when making the best decisions for yourself.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Legally, he owns half the house, so you can't make any decisions about that on your own. You can ask him to leave, but he's under no obligation to do so. You certainly couldn't sell it without him being involved. The only thing you could do for sure on your own is move into a new place. I agree that finding a place which will accept the dogs is going to be a challenge. How big are your dogs? If you don't mind living in the country, you will have more luck finding a place out there which will allow dogs.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Here's the problem with that, I cannot afford an attorney because I just paid a $9,000 retainer to another attorney for a different matter. I have no money left for another attorney but I need to get out....and I need to cut off all communication for at least 3-6 months.


Most divorce attorneys offer free 1-hour consultation. You can get a lot of questions answered in that amount of time. If you're eligible for spousal support, you can file that with the court yourself.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

StarFires said:


> Your safety is the most important thing. And by that, I mean not only your physical safety but your mental and emotional safety too. So none of your pro/con list matters if he would be able to enter your home at will.
> 
> The second thing is your good credit. Look into selling your home as soon as possible. Also, speak with a divorce attorney. He can't stay in the house and deliberately not pay the mortgage. You might be eligible for spousal support during the separation, and it can be garnished from his pay. You can use that money to pay the mortgage. Your lawyer will be best able to advise you on this. Plus, you'll know what to expect and where you stand when the time comes that you're ready to file for divorce. I have to say though that if you've been living dependently on your own income, then you might not be able to expect much, but it's surely worth looking into.
> 
> The third thing is the dogs. I know you love them, but you will have to consider placing 2 or 3 of them with other loving families. Sacrifice is necessary when making the best decisions for yourself.



Please don't think that I have a rebuttal for every response. I just want you to have the information that I am working with. He has always said spousal support is ridiculous and he will not pay it, court order or not. He also changes jobs every 3-6 months so it is very difficult to catch up with him. Lastly, I just need to get away from him and cut off all communication. I cannot stress that enough. As soon as I talk to him or see him, I start feeling confused. My grandbaby's death has changed my perspective and his behavior is unchanging. He is actively on dating sites while I mourn the death of our granddaughter. This is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and I know mentally that I need to cut ties for a short period of time.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

wilson said:


> Legally, he owns half the house, so you can't make any decisions about that on your own. You can ask him to leave, but he's under no obligation to do so. You certainly couldn't sell it without him being involved. The only thing you could do for sure on your own is move into a new place. I agree that finding a place which will accept the dogs is going to be a challenge. How big are your dogs? If you don't mind living in the country, you will have more luck finding a place out there which will allow dogs.


All of those things I have been thinking about so thank you. I don't mind living in the country and commuting to keep the dogs, they are rescues. However, I do understand that they may have to be placed in other homes.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

StarFires said:


> Most divorce attorneys offer free 1-hour consultation. You can get a lot of questions answered in that amount of time. If you're eligible for spousal support, you can file that with the court yourself.


Thank you!


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> I also say in your current state of mind, get some IC and start the process of getting your thoughts firmly in place, before a life changing decision. Because without any further info it could lead you in the wrong direction. But if you share you may not be ready for the forwardness and honest postings.



I don't know what IC is...


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I don't know what IC is...


Individual counseling


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

Do you have equity in your home? Do you work? If you work, who makes more?

I'd be hesitant to abandon the home if your name is on the mortgage. If your husband decides he doesn't want to pay the mortgage, your credit and the equity in your home go bye bye in a hurry. Are you in fear of physical harm from your husband?

Start researching the divorce process in your area. Chances are you can file everything yourself and represent yourself.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I don't mind living in the country and commuting to keep the dogs, they are rescues. However, I do understand that they may have to be placed in other homes.


I don't know much about rentals, but I've heard that dogs under 35lbs are generally what is allowed. Bigger dogs might present more problems when you're trying to find a place to rent. 

Check with the rescue organization they came from. Quite often, they have a policy that the dog can be returned at any time for any reasons. I'm sure they'd understand this situation and would help with either temporary or permanent housing.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Please don't think that I have a rebuttal for every response. I just want you to have the information that I am working with. He has always said spousal support is ridiculous and he will not pay it, court order or not. He also changes jobs every 3-6 months so it is very difficult to catch up with him. Lastly, I just need to get away from him and cut off all communication. I cannot stress that enough. As soon as I talk to him or see him, I start feeling confused. My grandbaby's death has changed my perspective and his behavior is unchanging. He is actively on dating sites while I mourn the death of our granddaughter. This is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and I know mentally that I need to cut ties for a short period of time.


I don't believe anyone can be trusted that spends extended periods of time away from home on a regular bases. I wanted to bring up the likelihood that he is cheating, but I didn't because your post wasn't about that.

Since you feel you must get away from him and cut communication, then you should get away. What's the point in the first scenario of asking him to be the one to leave if you know he will come back any time he wants?

Free yourself. You sound like you need to very badly, so do it. After you're gone, try to talk to him just once to come to an agreement about selling the house.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I realize it might seem a little flippant of me to suggest you leave your home knowing he won't pay the mortgage. It's just that I don't always realize that not everyone is privy to the same information.

So, you can get yourself a little bit of reprieve from worry about the house if you call and talk with the mortgage company. They usually work with people, but people don't know that because they're afraid of losing their house during tough financial times, so they don't call, but divorce is always a good motivator for them to work with people.

But if you do call, you can get them to do *almost* anything you need them to do. They will push one or two payments to the end of the payment schedule, giving you a couple months to regroup and figure things out. Or, you can ask for a moratorium on the loan for 3-6 months, during which time you won't have to pay the mortgage. And none of this affects your credit nor place you in jeopardy of foreclosure.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Is there any chance that your other attorney could give 1 hours worth of divorce advice? Is there another reason except that you are easily influenced by him that you want to be secretive?? Legal Services in many areas offers very cheap to free advice.

If you are afraid of any kind of abuse, say so, it makes a difference. It seems he has been cheating, do you have proof? Do you have support from friends and/or family? Would you have to quit your employment to stay away from him? Is it possible to temporarily move far away and stay with friends or relative after you have re-homed a couple of dogs?

Other above advice should help with your home. It is likely that legally, husband will have to follow court orders. State laws differ, but the amount he is capable of making is usually considered should he become obstinate.

Make up your mind and be tough with yourself regarding a split. Something is missing in this story.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

StarFires said:


> I realize it might seem a little flippant of me to suggest you leave your home knowing he won't pay the mortgage. It's just that I don't always realize that not everyone is privy to the same information.
> 
> So, you can get yourself a little bit of reprieve from worry about the house if you call and talk with the mortgage company. They usually work with people, but people don't know that because they're afraid of losing their house during tough financial times, so they don't call, but divorce is always a good motivator for them to work with people.
> 
> But if you do call, you can get them to do *almost* anything you need them to do. They will push one or two payments to the end of the payment schedule, giving you a couple months to regroup and figure things out. Or, you can ask for a moratorium on the loan for 3-6 months, during which time you won't have to pay the mortgage. And none of this affects your credit nor place you in jeopardy of foreclosure.



Extremely helpful information. Thanks so much!


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Tex X said:


> Do you have equity in your home? Do you work? If you work, who makes more?
> 
> I'd be hesitant to abandon the home if your name is on the mortgage. If your husband decides he doesn't want to pay the mortgage, your credit and the equity in your home go bye bye in a hurry. Are you in fear of physical harm from your husband?
> 
> Start researching the divorce process in your area. Chances are you can file everything yourself and represent yourself.



Absolutely no fear of physical harm. If anything, I may be the one that would physically harm him in my current state of mind. I'm so overwhelmed and emotional like I have never experienced before. I work, had the same job for 11 years. He works and changes jobs every 3 months to 1 year. I usually make more money but I also spend more on unexpected expenses because he cannot save money. 

I will start my research. Thanks for your help.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

sunsetmist said:


> Is there any chance that your other attorney could give 1 hours worth of divorce advice? Is there another reason except that you are easily influenced by him that you want to be secretive?? Legal Services in many areas offers very cheap to free advice.
> 
> If you are afraid of any kind of abuse, say so, it makes a difference. It seems he has been cheating, do you have proof? Do you have support from friends and/or family? Would you have to quit your employment to stay away from him? Is it possible to temporarily move far away and stay with friends or relative after you have re-homed a couple of dogs?
> 
> ...



I'm not being evasive about my story. I was raised in a tough home so I usually have a wall up for most relationships and just don't let people in. There a few people I allow to be close in my life. Other than my 2 children, this man of 22 years was allowed into my heart and he is slowly destroying my heart and my mind. I am stronger when he is away. For example right now, he will not answer my calls because he is busy talking to women on online dating sites. I say women loosely since he chats with people who have google phone numbers and usually ask for money which he is dumb enough to send and not pay his portion of the bills (the reason why I pay the mortgage). He is usually very happy when is getting something from me; this year he begged me for $4,000.00 for a down payment on a motorcycle and became very upset when I had to spend another $9,000 for a reason that did benefit him citing that we could have gone on an international vacation with that money. The money was not intended for vacation, it was my savings so that I could start to make improvements on the house and my emergency fund. Now my bank account is pretty much drained and I am scared that I can never get the work done on the home that I will need with one income. I'm not even sure that I can pay all the bills on my own. It's very expensive to live in this state so I may have to take another job but I can't see where I have the time. 

This behavior of ignoring me while he acts single allows me to become angry and start making better choices for my future by taking action. Once I talk to him, the blame comes out, he makes me feel confused and guilty and sad. It's almost a manipulation. I can't explain it well other than to admit that I have been trying to hang on to this marriage for too long hoping he was going to see the light and maybe mature. He is never going to change and at this point I feel like he taking advantage of the monetary benefits being with me offers. I don't really want to leave my home but I cannot afford all the home repairs that it needs and I honestly feel like he needs to come home to facing the fact that I finally took a stand and left. Then he can stand there in an almost empty home and hopefully realize that he got what he deserved and he doesn't have me as his cash card or back up any longer. By him not knowing where I am, I can start to heal from this relationship with a clear head and mourn my grandchild without all the extra drama. I have no family here nor do I have any close friends for support. I considered leaving the state to start over but I have a good job and I don't think that is the best decision right now. I feel like I should be smart enough to sell the house first and plan appropriately. 

Here is a link to some of my previous story:
https://talkaboutmarriage.com/consi...5-just-venting-looking-emotional-support.html


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> - tax benefits to home ownership


I'm sorry for your situation. It sounds awful.

Are you sure that you get a meaningful tax benefit for owning a home? With the 2017 tax changes, the standard deduction increased to $24,000 for a couple and the limit on state tax deductions was cut to $10,000. That means that you only get a tax benefit for home ownership in circumstances where your interest payments (plus charitable contributions and other deduction) are at least $14,000/year.

You stated that your children are grown and that you typically make more than him. You also made a statement about his unwillingness to pay spousal support. In your situation, I wouldn't think that you would be likely to get spousal support, so I wouldn't make that much of a consideration.

I think that the bigger question for you should be whether to file for divorce rather than whether to move out. If he is as manipulative and vindictive as you describe, be separated by married will be an endless drama. My thought is that it is better to file for divorce and enjoy what protections you can get from that process as a starting point. Your divorce attorney should be able to provide better advice on the pros and cons of moving out.

Most people that I know that have gotten divorced have had to finance some of their divorce with borrowed money. It seems that the marital discord that leads to divorce also makes it hard for two people to save money so they often go into the process without much cash on hand. Again, meet with a divorce attorney and they can probably give you guidance on how others handle it.

Best of luck to you. If you keep moving forward, it will work out. When you talk to him, remind him and yourself that promises are cheap and that actions speak louder than words. File and move forward with the process. How well he works with you will be the true test of what kind of person he is. In the end, you can always call it off or even remarry if he truly reforms, but I've never seen that happen. What does happen a lot is desperate people making promises that they never keep. Start the process. Discount his words. Watch his actions.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

He gaslights you. Look that up. 

Is there a way you could create a space in the house that is yours and yours alone? To get some space?

See attorney ASAP. 

CUT OFF COMMUNICATION with him since he can’t do it in a productive manner. Only communicate when absolutely necessary and don’t let him draw you into drama. 

Do not make a drastic decision that is based solely on emotions. 

Get to a counselor yesterday. You need to process all that is going on. 

Do not throw your future away over a selfish *********. 

My heart aches for you in your time of loss. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Which names are on the mortgage? If it's just your name, I'm wondering if you could sell it yourself. I'm not sure if there's anything in the home selling process which would require his signature if his name is not on the title. The equity value would still be shared regardless, but you could split that afterwards.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

So listen, I don't want to upset you and make you even more fearful and worried, but I'm afraid that what I'm about to say is going to do that. Please try to remain calm and just know you're going to have to take care of this distasteful business.

In both this thread and your other one, you mention several times that your husband spends his money "talking" to women online. I got the feeling yesterday when reading this post and again today when reading your other post that you haven't accepted or even considered that he is meeting up with these women and more than likely paying prostitutes when he's away from home. He earns money but isn't paying any bills and can't even come up with his own downpayment for a motorcycle. All that money is NOT just going to online sites to talk and look at pictures. After all that stimuli, men want action. And for men who spend lots of time traveling an away from home, the world is their playground.

I said this to let you know it's imperative that you protect yourself and stop sleeping with him. But most important at the moment is to get yourself checked out for STDs. These days, the most unlikely and unsuspecting people are discovering they have the HPV virus, HIV, or gonorrhea because their spouse/significant other is cheating with prostitutes and/or people they find on internet meetup sites. He's a very stupid man, so I know he doesn't have sense enough to protect himself and you. There's no doubt in my mind he has placed your good health and possibly even your life at risk. 

Again, I'm very sorry to bring this up but felt the need to open your eyes to this stuff.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I agree with SF and will also add that when my XH was earning money but the money never made it home, he was doing drugs...and a LOT of them. He also was a great gaslighter. It’s a way of taking the attention off of their own destructive behavior and making you feel guilty at the same time.  


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I read your previous story. Thanks, it explains a lot. Since bipolar illness runs in his family, his symptoms seem to me to be related. He will not change. The stress will ruin your health and future.

I am so sorry for your many losses--you deserve better. It is difficult to make the decisions you are being required to make.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Neither.

Sell the house, take your remaining equity and put it into a new place that leaves you with enough cash flow to life comfortably while building equity on your own. If you do need to rent, do it short-term.

When you buy, buy the smallest place you're comfortable with that has the biggest upside - meaning that if you sell it, you'll make money. 

That way you have peace of mind, are continuing to build equity, and are investing in something profitable while leaving breathing room to have a life.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Stay.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Thank you everyone for your feedback, giving some things to think about, and helping me to start formulating a plan. I'm still not sure on my best course of action. Logically, I should stay and ask him to leave, sign over his part of the house, or work with me on selling it. When I think about how he gets my brain twisted and he starts to tell me how his behavior is my fault or my family's fault, I start to get confused. I would really like to avoid another discussion where I cannot get my perspective verbalized and that I have to just say "ok" to avoid his argumentative stance. I also do not feel like I have to take any more blame for his decisions. I am at home, being loyal to him when he decides not to take my calls because he is texting someone he met online. We started counseling but he had a fit when the therapist wanted to discuss his childhood and made such a scene that I chose not to return (which he will blame me for if it comes up saying something like, "well you decided to stop therapy"). He makes no effort to change, makes me feel like I am second rate most days, and that I am to blame for his behavior. I just do not want to be held captive to this any longer. 

I looked at an affordable home this weekend and I do not want to lose the opportunity especially because the landlord has agreed to allow the four dogs. The home seems perfect for my situation but I still feel as though I am at a crossroad. I know the smart decision would be to stay put....


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I looked at an affordable home this weekend and I do not want to lose the opportunity especially because the landlord has agreed to allow the four dogs. The home seems perfect for my situation but I still feel as though I am at a crossroad. I know the smart decision would be to stay put....


If this is the case, then I feel like you need to make this move. Move everything while he is gone. Also file for divorce, Im sure the attorney you already have would take this on for you as well. Get in touch with your mortgage company and advise them you will be divorcing and see what they are able to help you with. I completely relate to your need to get away from him. What I DONT get is how he can still manipulate you with you knowing very clearly who and what he really is. You need to remind yourself that he is full of crap as he talks, and that nothing is ever going to change. Even if it did, would you really want to stay with a person who at any point thought that treating you this way and cheating on you was ok in their eyes?? Someone capable of such disrespect to you does not deserve to have you in their life at all.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

What I DONT get is how he can still manipulate you with you knowing very clearly who and what he really is. You need to remind yourself that he is full of crap as he talks, and that nothing is ever going to change. Even if it did, would you really want to stay with a person who at any point thought that treating you this way and cheating on you was ok in their eyes?? Someone capable of such disrespect to you does not deserve to have you in their life at all.[/QUOTE]


Let's be honest, I have many of my own issues to include some pretty heavy self esteem issues from childhood experiences. Also, I think deep down I really do not want to leave him and it is a harsh reality that I will not be growing old with this man like I may have envisioned at one time. He will not change but I think that I tend to hang on to any sliver of hope there is or by something that he says. His words and his actions rarely match up. For example, the last time I saw him, I took him to dinner because it was his birthday. He made mention that he has "wanted out for years". When I told him to go, go now and I will handle the heartaches all at once, he backed off and started making jokes asking me what was going on because I was tearful. The last thing I ever imagined was moving out while he was away and giving him the same abandoned feeling that his mother did when he was a child (he left him and his brother as a teen to go be with a man in another state) but I just can't keep up with him mentally when it comes to both his action and his words. It confuses me, its the best explanation I can give. It is so hard to explain... :|


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think what you may be feeling is not that you dont want to leave HIM, but you feel insecure leaving a MARRIAGE. You know HE isnt worth a damn, but you get some kind of secure feeling being in a marriage. But your sad reality is that a marriage is ALL you have, you do not have a real husband or partner. Stop feeling sorry for him due to his childhood issues, those are not your problem to deal with. He is the one tearing his own world apart, so detach yourself from this, and get out of there if that is what you think is best for yourself. Find your anger over being treated this way. Anger is a great asset to get yourself motivated. Then once you make your crossroads decision, find out why you have allowed it for so long. You dont want to carry these issues in to your next relationship.


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