# child/alimony support



## Looking4Solution (Jun 14, 2011)

Anyone know how a judge determines the weekly payment? The one time we separated before we went to the judge with a price we both agreed upon on our own but I doubt she'd do that this time and try to get as much as possible.
Also if I filed annihilation of affection would I still need to pay alimony or is that only waived due to adultery. Would an EA count as adultery?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Okay, let's slow down there, Pilgrim and organize your thoughts.

A. Most states (all but 48 states, I think) are now considered "no-fault" for divorce, meaning adultery, while grounds for divorce, has nothing to do with the property settlement, parenting agreement, and child support/alimony. You may debate the wisdom of the courts in this manner but it probably stems from the fact courts are "kid-centric" and don't give a rat's pittootie about either of you.

B. A judge determines child support based on a state guideline formula of your salary, her salary, who carrieds the health insurance, and who has physical custody (overnight visitation) most of the time on a monthly basis. Child support "Is What It Is". Judges can't change it. Lawyers cna't alter it based on their gifted prose or argument. It's simply a formula where you put in numbers and out spits your child support.

C. Alimony is a bit more complex and is determined by the one spouse's ability to work and better herself or himself, whetehr that person has the means to lead a lifestyle similiar as to what the partnership fostered. Tehre are different kinds of alimony - lifetime alimony (monthly check), restitution alimony (a lump sum). 

The courts are starting to get away from lifetime alimony and are becoming uncomfortable with the fact a woman (or man) is entirely helpless the rest of her life to support herself. Courts are particularly becoming impatient with women who shack up with other men after divorce and then the ex-husband is supporting a lifestyle of anotehr man (good deal for the other man, when you think about it). There's a whole industry of PI investigators now who follow ex-wives and record how often another man stays over and so forth.

It is very, VERY hard to leave an alimony payment for another man and most women simply won't do it for many psychological reasons and I think teh courts ARE right to challenge whether this sort of arrangement is healthy for the kids and society.

But I digest. . .

That being said, there is still some court sentiment there with awarding alimony, especially while the mother is raising the kids and that's probalby not a bad thing.

Case in point: a patient of mine just got divorced. She was a stay at home mom with 2 kids. . .13 and 9. Her husband was a successful carpenter during the Bush False Prosperity Years, made nearly a $100,000 (now he's outta work).

She was awarded child support, since she had them most of the time, and $500/week alimony for 9 years (until the 9 year old turned 18). 

After that, it is kind of expected she lead the lifestyle she wants to lead, either through remarriage or schooling.

Probably a fair settlement for all. . .however, 10-15 years ago (or even today). . .the husband ran a real risk of lifetime alimony. . .the conclusion being that this woman is helpless the rest of her life to earn a sustainable living.

D. Finally, you said she may or may not agree to this or that. I don't know your soon-to-be-ex-wife but you will honestly do the best, the both of you, by negotiating a creative agreement. It is good to know, through a consultation with an attorney, of "This is probably what the courts would decide based on the data."

Don't let your attorney sugarcoat it - he/she is there to tell you, "Hey. . .this is probably what is going to happen."

A question I always posed to my attorney was, "What's my exposure here?" Lawyers understand that word "Exposure". At that point, they are bound by law and their code to tell you the real risks you face in court, not say, 

"Oh, don't you worry. . .I'll get your child support down."

And then see if something else could be fashioned that's more creative and livable.

Good luck.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

> B. A judge determines child support based on a state guideline formula of your salary, her salary, who carrieds the health insurance, and who has physical custody (overnight visitation) most of the time on a monthly basis. Child support "Is What It Is". Judges can't change it. Lawyers cna't alter it based on their gifted prose or argument. It's simply a formula where you put in numbers and out spits your child support.


This is inaccurate in the US. Almost every state allows a deviation from the child support guidelines under certain conditions: if one spouse makes considerably more or less than the other; if both parents share parenting time; if the child has ongoing medical issues that will need a higher than normal level of care.

The best thing to do is google child support guiidelines in your state and also see if there is an online child support calculator for your state. This will give you some idea of what you may be on the hook for. Some states have a calculator that takes into consideration the shared parenting schedule and others don't. Where I live, there is not set guideline for child support in shared parenting cases so they do the calculation this way:

Calculate what mother would be responsible for if she had to pay child support.
Calculate what father would be responsible for if he paid child support.

Subtract the smaller amount from the larger amount. This is the difference between the two. Whichever parent had the higher child support amount (a higher salary) would pay the other parent the difference between the two.

Then call a lawyer and talk about alimony. Find a lawyer who SPECIALIZES in family law. If you don't you'll get someone who won't do a good job for you. Most lawyers offer a free 1 hour consultation and you can tell them the facts of your case/situation and they will tell you how they would handle it and what the landscape looks like for you.

Not every wife automatically is entitled to alimony and once you agree to it, it is very hard to drop it, so I would not agree to it at all. In this day and age, both parents usually work so there is no reason for anyone to pay anyone else alimony....unless there are extenuating circumstances (similar to what I listed above).


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, I wouldn't call my statement inaccurate but it was incomplete.

Yes, child support is determined by about 7-10 factors, like I said - health insurance coverage, physical custody (shared parenting time like you note), salaries of each parent. Tehre are a couple of other factors I can't recall to be honest. . .you can google your state child support.

Yes, your child support will be different at 50/50 physical custody vs. 90/10, I thought I made that clear. . .I apologize if I didn't. But that's part of the formula and judges and attorney's can't change formulas.

And yes, get an attorney who specializes in family law. . .mine did nothing but family law (and in fact experienced it first hadn when he left his wife for another man so I knew he had lived family law).

Finally, let me speak to getting the children 50/50 on the singular motive of lowering child support if that's what you and other posters are thinking.

Guy To Guy Here:

A. It's natural to think that. YOu aren't being evil. All of the factors - the loss of home, money, wage garnishment and parenting on your own get all muttled around in your head.

B. That being said, don't determine how much you want the kids to reduce child support. If you arne't equipped to parent 50/50, you'll be miserable and the kids will be miserable. The little bit of credit you get back from the state just isn't worth it. In my case, it was like $7.00/week or something..

Rather I would encourage you to think about it like this:

You have a million dollars. She has a million dollars. There will be no child support.

What do you think is best for the kids?

Honestly, every situation is different but I think the best thing is for the kids to be in their home and "birdnesting" is probably the best compromise. The Dad comes in and parents on a regular schedule and mom leaves and vice-versa. The kids get to stay in their familiar environment and get regular access to both parents.

When birdnesting is not palatable or workable (and most of the time, it isn't, I hate to say, becuase of the woman - she should try taking her kids to a motel sized room every other weekend and get the guy idea of displacement and then she would sympathasize what it's like to be the guy in this situation), I think honestly, the best thing often is 50/50 split, child support comes down as it does, and no resentment of alimony.

Another option I like is no overnights, you get an efficiency condo of some sort, with 1 bedroom, and just arrange a visitation schedule. This maximizes child support to your ex-spouse but it allows you to keep your living expenses minimal as you transition into the divorced world. And no woman you date worth her weight in salt would judge you for having an efficiency condo while suporting your kids.

In the end, we came down to 60/40 split, pretty close to #2.

Good luck.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Scanner-I was just correcting your statement that no judge can change child support. They can, and do, very often these days due to shared parenting. 

As a divorced Mom sharing custody 50/50 with my ex, I also have some thoughts on your recommendations for custody arrangements.

I think it is very difficult to do the "birdnesting thing", and know so few people who have done it successfully. I also think it is a mistake and unworkable in the long term to have no overnights with your kids. I think it is really important for single dads to build the same quality of life with their kids that moms traditionally do. That means making a home for them, doing homework with them, making dinner and feeding them at the table, creating new rituals and traditions with their kids and just being a part of their everyday life - putting them to bed, reading books to them at bedtime, feeding them breakfast and getting them to school. These are the moments that are what life with kids are all about, not dinner out or Disney Dad activities. Honestly, you will just be cheating yourself out of the best part of parenthood. But I agree with Scanner - this only works with dedicated dads, not dads who don't have an interest in being a good dad.

Good luck!


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## Looking4Solution (Jun 14, 2011)

I looked around and found out my state did have a calculator that I tried and found about what I would pay.

Thanks...


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## MyTwoGirls (May 31, 2011)

This post gave me some good information. I go see a lawyer for consultation tomorrow for custody issues. My wife makes a little more than twice what I do and I also have my two daughters on ALL the insurances (medical, dental, and vision). I also have my girls about 60% of the time ( I have kept a log for a year which is how long we have been separated). She also has a boyfriend and they both recently purchased a jet ski and have moved into a house together in the country, she had been seeing him prior to telling me she wanted time apart. She never told me she was moving until she had my daughter who is 10 tell me. Prior to separating from me back in April of 2010 she had opened her own checking account at another bank, rented a house (without my knowledge) but kept the bills portion in my credit union. She kept all our property and still has them. Now we always had joint accounts for the 17 yrs we have been married (still are)..I'm not sure what the lawyer is going to tell me but I only want in writing that we share the girls 50/50 as we have been doing a year of a week with her and a week with me. But I have had them @ 60% as I mentioned because she drops them off during her week without notice (reason I seek court ordered custody with notice).


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