# Need some perspective



## No_one (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi there, thanks in advance for reading my post. I'm here for the first time in desperation because I don't have anyone I can talk to. 

I found out today that my husband of 11 years has again been unfaithful for the second time. I found a text and confronted him and finally pinned him down so he couldn't lie his way out of it. 

The first time he cheated on me was 6 years ago. When it happened, the pain I felt was so intense I thought it would break me. We worked through it, and we started on the best years of our marriage.

The main reason I'm posting today- I'm confused. When I found out I got really angry. Now that the anger has gotten out I feel nothing. Maybe a little sad, but mostly confused and disorientated. Nothing like the first time when I couldn't stop crying.

I feel like we have no choice but to work through this- we have young children and we are going through some money issues.

I don't understand why I feel nothing. Even more I don't understand why he cheated. He tells me he doesn't know either and I responded- you need to do some deep soul searching as to why. 

I'm confused. Am I in shock?


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

I wouldnt be surprised if you were just in shock. Use that to your benefit and withdrawl from him. Make him sweat a little bit. 

Dont be too accommodating. That will flip the balance of power in your favor. If he thinks you are unaffected by him he may extend himself more emotionally and you will learn more of the truth
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Sure sounds like shock. And I'm not surprised. It's traumatic. 

Do you have kids together? Are you totally dependent on him for financial security (do you even have financial security)?


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Definitely take your time to process this and assess your feelings and personal situation.

There is no rush to forgive (if ever) or "fix" things as of right now. That will come later. 

It is said that the worse thing in a relationship is not hate...its indifference.

Good luck to you.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

you may still be in a shock state and withdrawing your feelings, but I have also hear cases of people that describe the second time as the moment something died inside of them, the love and respect that they had for their spouse just dissapered.

I may have a link from the WS perspective in that case.

BEL MOONEY: I've left my wife three times... but now I want her back | Mail Online


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## No_one (Nov 4, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> Sure sounds like shock. And I'm not surprised. It's traumatic.
> 
> Do you have kids together? Are you totally dependent on him for financial security (do you even have financial security)?


We do, three children 6-10. At this point, there is no good news in the finance dept. other than the fact we are getting back on track. He is the main money maker, although I'm trying pretty hard to make my own way as well...it's nothing I can live off of yet.

The more I think about it, I guess what I've lost most is hope. I was always afraid that it would happen again and I tried so hard to trust him. He always seems to need so much positive attention - always needing to be built up- if I had to guess he can't stop looking for it everywhere.

Now I'm hearing the same old things he said the 1st time- I know he means what he is saying but now I have no hope that he is able to fix whatever is wrong in his head. Last time he moved out and we stayed apart for a little over a month, this time he's pushing me to tell him I love him and that everything is going to be okay. 

I'm going to take the advice here, not everything needs to be fixed right away. I hope I'm not broken inside.

Thanks- really helps!


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Is it possible that you feel nothing because of the fact he did it again isn't really surprising? Not trying to stir the pot but I'm sure " what if he does it again" had to have entered you mind in the last 6 yrs.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I can't link to ti from this device but find the newbies thread and pay particular attention to the 180. The 180 will help you immensely and send the right message to your husband.

Work out hard, see your Md, see what your legal options are. 

If he is a seial cheater, there is little hope for him doing better. He is damaged to deeply.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

I hope that you can find a way out of your situation. The chances that he will stop cheating are minuscule. Each time you forgive and take him back only emboldens him. What are the consequences for him? Apparently nothing.

If you aren't willing to divorce him, you'll have to accept his cheating. It's really a horrible way to live with that hanging over you. I hope you find the strength to leave. Best wishes to you and you children.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

No_one, firstly you are not 'no-one'.

I would like to get an idea of the circumstances before I offer any advice. Not that I'm an expert!

Was it EA/PA or ONS? How long was it going on?
Same for the last affair. 
Did you find him out both times and how? 
After the last time how did you guys go with the R. Did he do all the right things i.e did he tell you everything, was he truly remorseful? How long did it take for you to trust him again. Or did you ever? Were you always snooping and is that how you found out this time?
How is he as a husband generally? 
He would have to pay you alimony so would you be able to get by on that together with your income if you left him?

Do not buy into his "tell me you love me and everything is going to be OK." He sounds like a little boy running to his Mom. You are not his Mom. A complete 180 and say as little as possible to him. Busy yourself with the kids and your job. . . as if you aren't busy enough!

I hope you don't mind all the questions. I'm sorry you have to go through it again. This may be your deal-breaker which may explain while you feel numb this time and different from the last time. 
Or it may be that you were resigned to the fact that it would happen again and it did and so deep down you expected it and there isn't the shock factor.
Take care.

ETA: I just read your other post. He cheated on you 6 years ago and your youngest child is 6. So did he cheat on you while you were pregnant?


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## No_one (Nov 4, 2013)

Oh boy. Having people actually care to post made me cry more than anything else today. Ha.

It was PA both times- mixed with EA? 

1st time it was around 3 months after I had our youngest. He started chatting with a girl he knew from our town online. I had noticed she was getting emotionally involved with him and told him he should pull back and he said he was just trying to help her. A few weeks later he left himself signed in and a message popped up from her saying "Where were you? I waited half an hour" I used his account and confronted her and found out he had been meeting her at night (he had been telling me he was going for a walk because of stomach issues) I told him I knew everything and then he confessed. Although they hadn't gone "all the way" it was pretty darn close. I think it lasted about 2 months.

I asked him to leave and we started up with counseling. I forgave him, and even talked it over with the other woman and forgave her. I put it behind me the best I could. He was very sorry. He made all the promises in the world and told me he would never hurt me like that again.

I'm not sure I ever completely trusted him afterwards. Our whole relationship has been plagued with his love of flirting- when we were first married he did it online. Realizing it was a trigger for him, after the whole issue he stopped using the computer for social aspects. 

Every so often I did a little snooping - double checking on the computer to make sure he wasn't slipping back into bad habits but I did try to respect his privacy. I never got into his phone.

I found out this time when I had to use his phone to make a call- there was a new text message and I read it- it had a smiley face at the end - my husband works nights and does text a lot of his co-workers and none of them are female or use emotes so I asked him who it was- he told me it was a wrong number. During the morning he kept asking if everything was okay (huge red flag) and I asked him if there was anything he needed to tell me. He assured me no- over and over- but I saw that look. I knew. When I pressed him and told him I would check up on our cell phone bill, he panicked and broke down and told me he had been sexting and met up twice with an old friend of his. He said it had been going on for a month.

I'm blindsided - just last week we were talking about how nice it was to have those rough years behind us - so many things going on around us but at least we could count on no drama with us. 

As a husband he is very attentive, sometimes to much. He tells me all the time how great I am and beautiful ect ect. I think I hear 10 times a day how much he loves me. He is emotionally draining sometimes and needs a lot. 

I think he would have to pay alimony but at this point we are trying to catch up on some bills- I can't even imagine trying to balance a separation with everything else.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Sounds like a serial cheater.
Did that come up in the counselling you went to?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Don't be so hasty is making any decisions right now. Your numbness is a defencive mechanism.

I would challenge you right now to think through the finances. I certainly understand, I have been there. But do not comprimise your life over money. 

You don't have just one choice. You have several. You could do an in house separation. Live in separate bedrooms. That way your expenses would not change and I would ask him to get another job to pay off some of your debt. There are other options, but this would keep both of you around the kids.

ANd he knows why he did this. But the real reason will come down to pure selfishness.

Know that this is not your fault. Cheating is 100% his fault.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Start a new life without him if ever so possible. Do so for yourself and your kids. This man is a selfish pig. "Fool me once shame on you;fool me twice, shame on me."

I know it seems impossible. Tell him you want him out, you expect him to continue to pay for his children, you, the house, etc. until this mess is sorted that he created for himself !!!! And do it!!!

Sham the door and say goodbye! Let him think about what the fvck he did !!!!!! Twice!!!! You deserve a much better human being in your life! I wont even call him a man . 

~ sammy


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Sorry for the spot you are in. 

At a minimum. 
Get tested for stds. Take care of your health. There is no way of knowing what he may have exposed you to. 

See a lawyer to best know your options. You may be better off than you think if you want a divorce. Find out what your position would be from a legal expert. That may help you make the decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I am so, so, sorry this has happened to you.

What you describe of your husband - emotionally needy, overly demonstrative of affection, likes to "help" women, overtly flirty, cheating during some of the best years of your marriage, compartmentalizes well - those are all sort of the hallmarks of the type of serial cheating men you and I seem to have married. In my husband's case the cheating was shocking because he's such a great guy. Everyone says so! 

At a guess, I would say your husband has trouble with appropriate relationship boundaries - as in, he doesn't have any, and fundamentally doesn't understand why he should. He probably has a long history of being "good friends" with a lot of women. He may still be friends with most, if not all, of his exes - because he's just that nice of a guy. Old friends, old crushes and old flames may seem to drift in and out of his life even years or decades later. Because he's always so "sweet" and so easy to talk to and wants to help them out with whatever. It's like no relationship he has with a woman ever 100% ends. And he doesn't "get" why that would make you uncomfortable, even now. I think he's been fairly easy to catch because he doesn't really think he's doing anything wrong, so he's not discreet or careful. 

The reason you've not been able to build back trust since his last affair is that you know - maybe have always known on some level - that he is fundamentally inappropriate with women and that he's not trustworthy. If you have not done so, and you want any degree of the truth about the history of your marriage, you may need to insist on a polygraph. I would suspect that there have probably been more affairs, or other inappropriate relationships of varying types, with women throughout your marriage. If you want the truth, you'll have to dig for it. But know this: chances are extremely slim that you will ever know the entire truth, and even slimmer that he will ever be able to be a truly faithful husband to you.

And again, I am so very sorry.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I wanted to add, too, that the numbness you're feeling is normal. Not everyone experiences it, but some do. Be prepared that it may come and go, alternating with sadness, deep resentment, even rage. Or, if you have truly reached the end of your rope, you may find that the numbness slowly gives way to a general apathy for your husband. While that apathy can make separation - or staying together "for the kids" - much easier emotionally for you, it is also a signal that you've pretty much emotionally checked out of the marriage for good.


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## whitecat (May 17, 2013)

I just wanted to say I'm sorry too. You've gotten some great advice here. All I can add is, whatever you are feeling is what you're supposed to be feeling. Be gentle with yourself and you don't have to make any permanent decisions right now. You will know what is the right thing to do in the right moment.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

It does sound like you have to start planning a future without him. It just breaks my heart to read your story. I am very sorry for the pain you are going through. Your story is very close to my xW. She was very attentive and saying all the right things to make me feel secure about our marriage. While in the background she just kept things on the low until I was not looking anymore. Its so hard to walk away but its just not clean like they left or something like that. I had two kids with her and custody of two other kids I had in a previous relationship. I worked IT and still do. So the hours killed any chance of keeping a eye on her. I am sure in some way my job drove a wedge in my marriage. I am very sorry for what you are going through.




Clay


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm so sorry. 

You dont' have to do anything yet. I get the feeling this situation has called the shots with your heart for a while. as a bs I know what it's like to feel like you are always having to react to what the cheater is doing. You don't have to right this second. These are big decisions.

However, I stayed for the kids. For me, I feel it was a mistake. I stayed for financial security. For me, I feel it was a mistake. I loved him, but looking back I did not love him anymore like a husband. I did not want to sleep with him. Once I was cheated on, I was completely 100% turned off by him. I know now I cheated myself during all those years staying for those reasons. I finally left, 7 years later. And it was just as hard financially when the kids were bigger as it would have been while small. And it was just as hard on the kids divorcing later than it would have been when they were small. In fact, I feel it would have been easier on them when they were younger. Mine were teenagers and I thought they would be mature enough to handle it better. Wow, difficult....

If I were you...and I'm not so take this advice or don't....I would start to at least look into the things you would need to do to leave. Where would you live? How much money would you need? Would you need to get another job? Contact a lawyer, it should be a free consultation, and inform yourself. If you can't stomach beginning a process of leaving him, tell yourself that all of these things are just "information gathering". Not only contact a lawyer, start educating yourself on how to deal with the children and how a divorce will effect them.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

No_one said:


> I feel like we have no choice but to work through this- we have young children and we are going through some money issues.


This is simply not true. BS's always have a choice. When you come to that realization, you won't be confused anymore.

Your husband has now crossed in to the serial cheater category. If he was remorseful after the first time, it wouldn't have happened again; and the likelihood is this won't be the last time. Forgiving him once is hard enough. But more than once is a "shame on me" situation. 

Is this really how you want to live?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

No_one said:


> He always seems to need so much positive attention - always needing to be built up- if I had to guess he can't stop looking for it everywhere.





No_one said:


> Our whole relationship has been plagued with his love of flirting- when we were first married he did it online. Realizing it was a trigger for him, after the whole issue he stopped using the computer for social aspects.
> 
> As a husband he is very attentive, sometimes to much. He tells me all the time how great I am and beautiful ect ect. I think I hear 10 times a day how much he loves me. He is emotionally draining sometimes and needs a lot.


His low self-esteem and need he has for lots and lots of external validation is very likely at the root of his cheating. Until he can understand that about himself and actively work to prevent his issues from leading him into flirtations and affairs, you will always have this problem between you.

You said you went to MC...was any of this brought up and discussed? Maybe this time he needs to go to individual counseling and deal with HIS issues. These aren't marital issues - HE is broken inside and needs to shore up his emotional well-being so he isn't looking for someone else outside his marriage to make him feel better about himself.


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## No_one (Nov 4, 2013)

I've read and re-read everything here and you all are very right. 

Our MC was cut short, we never really got to the roots of issues. I think he does need counseling on his own- he was abandoned by his mother and then by his Dad - he has a lot to work through. I thought I could be that person to help him but I see now all I did was put band aids on so he could avoid. 

I'm scared. He was my first everything- I don't know what its like to be on my own. I went from overbearing parents who sheltered me (they were in the most conservative church and I still wasn't allowed to participate in youth group) to meeting him and getting swept up. The cringe-worthy detail in all of this was he was engaged when we met. Although I never did anything inappropriate, I allowed him to pay me attention while he was involved. She broke it off with him and then we started dating. My naive 19 yr old self just thought that what we had was real love- it was meant to be. 

Now I see it for what it was. 

All I feel now is sorry for him. I feel so bad that he has done this to himself. I haven't really seen him since this all happened. I've told him over the phone that I can't be in a marriage relationship with him right now, that I want to consider a real separation. I said all I could do was take things one day at a time - I couldn't plan what would happen between us but I did know that me giving in, and pretending we could fix him or us wasn't going to work. 

He cried. And I'm guessing I will get many more tear filled calls from him. I feel horrible. But I keep telling myself, he had so many chances in the last 30 days to make different choices.

Part of me is actually feeling good- the thought that I don't have to carry his issues with me anymore feels unreal. Rowan, you are so right- He has no idea about appropriate relationship boundaries- Not even with me. Stepping outside my box and looking in- I'm seeing things that weren't right- things I put up with because it made him happy. Life is short, I can't live like that.

I'm not sure I believe in getting remarried- I always thought that working with him was better than spending my life alone but now I see that I can't even think about that right now- I just need to do what's right. I don't want my children growing up and seeing a warped marriage. 

I'm going to focus on my kids and becoming independent and try to fight off the old me that wants to give him everything he asks for. I'm terrified. I don't want to mess this up again. 

Thank you sincerely for all the advice. I think coming here may have saved me from making another huge mess in my life.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

No One, you are lucky to have found this place. I have found there are a lot of intelligent, compassionate, thoughtful and (unfortunately) experienced people on this site. All willing to help you from their point of view. 

One thing you mentioned that I picked out was not wanting to disrespect your H's privacy. There's a difference between privacy and secrecy; what he may have on his phone are secrets kept from the marriage. This should not be. The only place you need privacy is in the bathroom, and there is no need for secrecy. 

Just thought I'd toss that in there because it's a subtle, yet important distinction to make.


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## MOOSEY (Apr 24, 2013)

Your story is so incredibly similar to mine. He was married when we met, I was 19 and him 29. He chased & chased & told me how unhappy his marriage was. I believed if all. Fast forward 10 years & he had a PA & EA with a friend. I stayed because I felt I had no choice with 2 young children. 

Another 10 years & it happened again with his work colleague. A few months of false R and I found out he was still involved with her. I just felt nothing. I just wish I'd had the guts to leave last time. That's my biggest regret, because now I've lost 20 years. 

I hope you can reach a decision that's right for you. But I know what I would do. 

Good luck.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## No_one (Nov 4, 2013)

This post is a vent- I just have to say it somewhere. 

Now I feel everything. Today I found out that there was one more affair between all of this - I wasn't shocked but to hear him say it and admit and then tell me that it lasted a year. Every part of me is breaking. My whole reality is so shook upside down I just want to curl up in a ball and disappear. He is telling me that he will spend the rest of his life making this up to me- but I just can't understand how someone could do this and then decide to change. I am drained. My brain is trying to tell me how worthless I am, even though I know its not true - its hard to fight that feeling. I was never enough. Everything I fought for - every life sucking draining day he put me through , it still wasn't enough.

He cried when he saw how hurt I was. Somehow this would all be better if he was mean about it. I just don't know anymore.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

No one,

You have to come to the realization that your husband is a serial cheater. No matter his tears, no matter how bad you feel for him; that's what he is.

And very rarely do serial cheaters change. You are to the point now where there is no consequence short of divorce, that will impact him. If you R, that will be just one more indication to him that he can cheat on you unabated; and it will likely happen again. All the meanwhile, you'll be in a state of limbo, regretting that you gave him yet another chance. You won't trust him again; and you shouldn't. 

Move on with your life. Find someone who will respect you and be faithful. Do this for yourself.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

No_one said:


> This post is a vent- I just have to say it somewhere.
> 
> Now I feel everything. Today I found out that there was one more affair between all of this - I wasn't shocked but to hear him say it and admit and then tell me that it lasted a year. Every part of me is breaking. My whole reality is so shook upside down I just want to curl up in a ball and disappear. He is telling me that he will spend the rest of his life making this up to me- but I just can't understand how someone could do this and then decide to change. I am drained. My brain is trying to tell me how worthless I am, even though I know its not true - its hard to fight that feeling. I was never enough. Everything I fought for - every life sucking draining day he put me through , it still wasn't enough.
> 
> He cried when he saw how hurt I was. Somehow this would all be better if he was mean about it. I just don't know anymore.


His tears are his way of manipulating


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Number One, 

My husband was a serial cheater. Probably for my whole 21 years of marriage. Not for one second did I ever feel responsible for his choices or actions.

I realized he was weird in many ways I never chose to see. I found out a lot about his family and his upbringing and what I saw as the Walton's type family was nothing but a non-comunicative (sp?) family with tons of rug-sweeping.

You are mourning a person that unfortunately never existed. Your trust in people will be changed because you now realize we are all capable of untrustworthy behavior. 

Most people who have never been on their own fare very well. You will discover great things about yourself if you split with your husband. 

You need to stop thinking as a no_one and start being number one. It really is that easy. 

Just remember, your husband's cheating is not on you, it's on him 100%. And the tears he sheds are his to own, not yours. He knew what he was doing and is crying because he was caught and can't have his cake and eat it too.

He is not a nice person.
He is not a nice husband.
There are good men out there.
This is not your fault.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

So tell him that he has killed your love and respect for him.

Past behavior is a good indication of future behavior. All of this is just too much. There are good men in the world somewhere. But even with counseling, I do not see him changing.

He is sorry that he was caught, but is he really sorry for what he did to his wife and children? 

You should see an attorney to help you with the separation agreement, leading to the divorce. 

There is nothing wrong with you, you are enough, he has a problem. 

Someday in the future, there will be happy days filled with peace. Do something this week for yourself and your children. Something fun. 

You really need to start detaching from him, by starting the 180. This is for you to survive the extent of his betrayal.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Quote by OP
> He always seems to need so much positive attention - *always needing to be built up*- if I had to guess he can't stop looking for it everywhere.
> 
> *he's pushing me to tell him I love him* and that everything is going to be okay.
> ...


Your husband has deep emotional damage and it will take many years with a great recovery team and his 100% dedication to overcome some of that. The odds are very much against him becoming a lot better. I would bet that you do not have enough (I don’t think anyone has) emotion reserve to go through many more years of having your life negatively affected. You have had over 6 years of trust problems and betrayal and you are not superwoman.


*Make a plan to become more self efficient*. That may take years but you cannot take more years of depending on a very emotionally crippled person like your husband. It is now getting down to you or him. I do not mean that in a cruel way but it is the facts.

You are blaming yourself partly for this tragedy by statement such as reprinted below and that is twisted thinking.



> By OP
> My brain is trying to tell me *how worthless I am*, even though I know its not true - its hard to fight that feeling.* I was never enough.*



Your husband commits one of the greatest marriage killers of all time and you turn his selfishness and weakness into you being worthless? In fact your husband did not stop at once crushing the marriage but continued his selfish and weak acts for years that do tons of damage. *You are a woman of integrity do NOT buy into the cheap trick of blaming yourself for your husband’s very damaged integrity and respect.*


I know that you are in a very tough spot as you cannot afford to live on your own right now but be patient, be determined, be diligent, be persistent in bringing your plan to make your life MUCH better. Millions have done it and so can you. Get as much help from those that really love you and profession help if possible.


*You feeling worthless is a lie from the pit of hell.* You are a faithful wife and mother. You raising your children make you very valuable. Being a good mother will have more positive effects on your children that anything anyone else can do. You are now the most important thing in your children’s life. Your husband has lowered his integrity and will not be able to build your children up as much as you can.
*



By OP
I don't want my children growing up and seeing a warped marriage.

Click to expand...

*
If your husband beats the odds and gets a LOT better in the many years to come then you can decide if you want to go back to him in th eyeras ahead. .* By you being stronger you will no longer feel smothered and trapped by his weakness and will be better abled to direct your life and your children's life.*


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## now_awake (May 29, 2013)

Wow Mr Blunt, that was an awesome post and something I needed to hear too. I have days where I think that I was never enough. But how could anyone be enough for such an emotionally damaged person? My H has severe self and body loathing. No amount of selfless acceptance and compassion changed any of that. They are his demons to deal with.

OP, now it's time to put your own needs first. I know it's difficult, but do something to help yourself every day. Be kind to yourself.


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