# It takes one to change the dynamic



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I've said this a bunch of times. I wonder if I can make it clearer with an example from us.

When we were first married, the shine had already started to wear. From MY point of view, our issues were

- He was very irresponsible with money. (To ME he was stupid<- disrespect)
- He did NO housework. (To ME he was lazy <- disrespect)
- He was always pressuring me for sex. Why would I want to have sex with him if he was being such a jerk wrt money and domestic pursuits.
- He always wanted to spend his time in the wood shop or gaming.

I spent all my time trying to GET him to the things *I* wanted. But I did not really listen to what HE wanted. We got stuck trying to fight with each other about who was right in what they wanted.

What I did not know until I went to a forum like this one was his point of view.

- Marriage signed him up for love and commitment not to change into my view of what a husband should be. If I did not like him the way he was, why did I marry him. He felt he could never do ANYTHING right.
- He spent all his time elsewhere because I nagged him to death. I did not listen when we argued (neither did he, we were both trying to prove the other wrong). Who wants to be around that? He shut down and closed himself away.
- Every time I rejected sex, I rejected HIM not just a booty call. 

So when we "worked" on our marriage, we would try to explain our own point of view. But neither one of us wanted to hear it. Because the other guy was the one who was wrong. 

So I have told the story of what I did. I happened to be the one who learned from a board. But it might be interesting to see in hindsight what HE would have had to do.

It would have been a combined approach (as it had been with me). In no priority order:

- He would have had to man up (aka set effective limits) and not tolerate my nagging anymore. Were they "fitness tests"? Yah I think so.

And if you are one of those Nice Guys, you might ask wouldn't you stop nagging if you got everything you wanted? Honestly, I would have to answer No. It was an ingrained habit. It was part of what I thought I was entitled to as wife. Having gotten what I wanted, I would have wanted more.

- He would have had to start taking money and housekeeping more seriously.
- He would have had to start spending more time with me.

That pretty much would have done it.

BUT *I* recognized the damage my nagging was causing, so I stopped. I set effective limits around housework and money. 

And if any of you women are in this boat and think you can do it by just giving him what he wanted, see ingrained habit and entitlement above. 



I started faking it until I could make it with sex. I started lightening up about the time he spent away from me so he could have his time.

And ... lo and behold, I got the effort I needed in the house work and money department. I got the time I wanted.

EITHER one of us had a path to change the dynamic. But it took effective limit setting and meeting the needs of the OTHER guy.

And in both cases, neither of us was intentionally being a bad guy. Neither one of us was trying to screw the other. We were just clueless.

Don't know if this helps explain my repetitive mantras.

S


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

We've actually had the exchange....

"I sure hear about my nagging/finding fault all the time"

"That's because I hear it all the time"

That may not sound all that positive.
**********************************

However, when one partner (without prompting) takes a trip after work to supplement groceries, make sure the craft show display (partner's home business) is a success, and beats the lastest gasoline price gouge in the process, he's feeling pretty thoughtful and supportive.

First words inside the door:

"You can stop buying taquitos. We already have them and I don't eat them anymore."

Later that evening:

"You didn't greet me when you got home"

"I was busy listening to the problems with the taquitos"

Of course, there were many other things going on. 5 of our kids are at the house. I have a handyman/friend who is totally on board with the home business and he does everything from fixing showers to unclogging sinks - in addition to custom woodwork for craft shows.

He's one of those guys who feels friendless and - perhaps - his surge of energy for us is because he's hoping he's finally found a place to fit in.

I spend extra time and pay special attention to him to make sure he's not feeling like an outsider.

Later on that very evening, my wife recognized that this dynamic may have helped her to "feel shortchanged" when I arrived home.

I suggested we might both be mindful of the first words out of our mouths when we see each other after stretches apart.

We fell asleep that night in each other's arms.

This would be impossible without boundaries and with the requisite chasing/pleading when someone expresses injury.

I hear you Vermont.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

In my own marriage the truth was I treated my friends better than I treated my own husband. Once I made up my mind to change everything just seemed to fall into place. 

It's still work though. Everyday I make the choice to love my husband to the best of my ability. And he responds in kind. My dh is a simple man. He wants good food, a happy/nice wife and sex (in that order). He's actually pretty easy to please. I think my problem was when I tried to make him complicated.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> In my own marriage the truth was I treated my friends better than I treated my own husband. Once I made up my mind to change everything just seemed to fall into place.
> 
> It's still work though. Everyday I make the choice to love my husband to the best of my ability. And he responds in kind. My dh is a simple man. He wants good food, a happy/nice wife and sex (in that order). He's actually pretty easy to please. I think my problem was when I tried to make him complicated.


Does he like sandwiches?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Conrad said:


> We've actually had the exchange....
> 
> "I sure hear about my nagging/finding fault all the time"
> 
> ...


DH and I have gotten pretty good at saying Whoa Nelly, hold them horses on the criticism thing when one of us looses track of the big picture.

Does your partner "get" the "I was busy listening to problems with the taquitos"? Does she get the correlation? That was the one I had a hard time picking up on, formerly.




> Of course, there were many other things going on. 5 of our kids are at the house. I have a handyman/friend who is totally on board with the home business and he does everything from fixing showers to unclogging sinks - in addition to custom woodwork for craft shows.
> 
> He's one of those guys who feels friendless and - perhaps - his surge of energy for us is because he's hoping he's finally found a place to fit in.
> 
> ...


Ok I am, apparently, confused. I thought you were in a relationship, post-divorce. We are all bone heads from time to time. Recognizing it in ourselves when it happens can go a long way.



> I suggested we might both be mindful of the first words out of our mouths when we see each other after stretches apart.
> 
> We fell asleep that night in each other's arms.
> 
> This would be impossible without boundaries and with the requisite chasing/pleading when someone expresses injury.


Yup.


> I hear you Vermont.


I wish it did not take me so freaking long to GET IT.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Mom6547 said:


> I
> And in both cases, neither of us was intentionally being a bad guy. Neither one of us was trying to screw the other. We were just clueless.


This is what I had to realize, too. My H was not a bad guy. We were both just clueless and bouncing our issues off each other. I essentially had to do the same thing you did - back off and respect him for who he was and the struggles he was going through. I had to stop making everything about me and treating my H like an object for my happiness.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

This is what I'm still trying. For months.

I KNOW I''m easing up on the following behaviors that trigger his reactions:

insisting we "discuss"
chasing him around after a disagreement
clinging to him
getting defensive and personalizing everything he says
asking him to meet my needs 

What I still need to work on:

correcting him
repeating myself
getting defensive
throwing little barbs under my breath when I'm irked

What I'm trying to do that's "right":

giving him distance and space when he wants it
letting him know I appreciate the good things he does
showing him love in his language (acts of service)
showing that I'm happy as an independent person and don't rely entirely on him
valuing his opinion
keeping him in the loop

He feels judged. He feels criticized. He feels insecure.

I love him and I don't want him to be so angry anymore.
I'm not just waiting to "get" from him, for my sake.
I want to see him as a more grounded and peaceful person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

Wow, quite simply, WOW.

I thought I vowed never to put my wife onto this site, but this is TRULY something I think she needs to know..... She is VERY good on some of them, and not so good on some others....

Congrats on the hard work and effort paying off!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> DH and I have gotten pretty good at saying Whoa Nelly, hold them horses on the criticism thing when one of us looses track of the big picture.
> 
> Does your partner "get" the "I was busy listening to problems with the taquitos"? Does she get the correlation? That was the one I had a hard time picking up on, formerly.
> 
> ...


VT,

We're working on the "Whoa Nelly" thing. Mixed results so far. If it involves what Stephen Covey calls the "rice bowl" - which would include her children, parents, or childhood, it's still quite difficult to remain engaged without invective.

As to the taquitos thing. There was an initial flash of anger when I first brought it up - as it was perceived as blame shifting.

Perhaps the most difficult part of all of this is that it's never to be about me. If I have a stake in the game, it's important to verbally illustrate the collateral damage associated with either the activity or with inaction - specifically the damage that results to others.

My divorce was finalized in late 2006.

Both my wife and I would admit we got married too quickly following discovering our feelings for each other. Working on these things while married makes them more difficult - rather than establishing appropriate boundaries in a more casual (dating) relationship.

If I had known this stuff back then, it would have made life so much easier.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I too am working on this. I am not very good at setting effective boundaries- in fact, bad as it sounds, I'm not even SURE I know what a boundary of mine would be.

I am working on loving him for what and who he IS and not what I expect or want him to be. Giving without expecting anything in return. Treating him like he really is the person I love the most and this might be our last day ever. It's pretty hard given recent circumstances, but I am working on it.


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## vivea (Jan 22, 2011)

Unfortunately I discovered TAM after he separated from me.I really wish I knew all this before that. I had no clue what I'm doing.
We had issues YES but I didn't respond well to them.Constantly being upset, nagging....can't get over past things.

I'm one of the few lucky ons that will get a second chance,I already have a different view of what a marriage is and nothing will be the same. He doesn't know me as that person,he's never seen that from me....it'll be quite shocking for him to see me as the supportive loving wife that doesn't nag and gives him the space that HE needs.
I can only hope that by me doing all this he will respond back and we can change the dynamic of our marriage and build a new stronger one where we no longer disrespect each other.

Thank you for posting this,it really encourages me .


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## Itslikethat (Jul 21, 2009)

I come here for some help when i really cant take anymore. My wife fits everything said here. I try to help but everything gets dismissed. Im going to try this tomorrow, but fear the same results.....

Any help when i inevitably return will be appreciated..


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Itslikethis Can you explain more about the history of your relationship and when things ztarted going bad.


Mom, the change in my marriage was the result of changes in my understanding of my husband as a man. Our problems started after we had our first child, I fell in love with the baby and lavished practically all of my attention on him. I thought my husband felt the same way. I discovered that he became lonely and angry with me for what he prpably saw as losing a wife to motherhood. When 

I think back, it was an abrupt change from all my attention on him to seeming to turn away from him. He reacted by withdrawing from me and not helping with the extra work load that a child engendered. I in turn became angry and resentful of him and it was down hill from there. 

I learned by reading books and joining this forum that men feel love and appriceated by the quantity and quality of intimacy. I did not deny him at first but I was distracted. The riff finally caused me to not want him to touch me. It was then that I read and I was suprised about the was he might be feeling. I told him what I read and asked if it was true. He confirmed it was and how lonely he felt. 

My husband rarely talks about how he feels so I knew it was serious. My heart sunk and I felt deeply sorry and asked why he did not tell me. He thought that I knew the effect that my abrupt with drawl had and that I did not care. The simple act of my acknowledging that I understood now, and that I did not know and that I was very upset at what happened and I was sorry. 

The cange in me was like a complete shift in how I saw everything about us and he almost instantly changed back to the loving supportive man I knew. It really is true that a change in attitude In one person changes, the entire dynamic of the relationship. That should be comforting and offer hope to some people in troubled relationships. Both have to be open to change. However, if one person insist upon holding onto anger and resist seeing the progress in the other person then the change is still good for the one person because they decide to go forward and let go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevan (Mar 28, 2011)

tobio said:


> I too am working on this. I am not very good at setting effective boundaries- in fact, bad as it sounds, I'm not even SURE I know what a boundary of mine would be.


Interesting to hear someone else say this! I heard from so many that standing up for my needs was important, but I was always confused about how to identify my "needs." Food, water, air: check. Sex? Many survive without it. Kindness? Ditto. 

Finally some sort of switch flipped, and I decided to identify my most important "wants" as needs. Actually, what really happened was that I started respecting myself instead of constantly questioning whether I was worthy of respect. And once I started standing up for my newly-identified needs, my confidence rose and my behavior became more closely the behavior of someone worthy of respect.



tobio said:


> I am working on loving him for what and who he IS and not what I expect or want him to be. Giving without expecting anything in return. Treating him like he really is the person I love the most and this might be our last day ever. It's pretty hard given recent circumstances, but I am working on it.


This might work for you, but there's a difference between being considerate and being self-sacrificing. Be generous, but also be willing to respect yourself in your relationship with him.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Well...
The "dynamic has changed" in my relationship, for sure...
But I don't know if it's brought us closer to each other.
I'm much stronger than I was months ago. 
I bite my tongue more.
We talk less.
I feel better, but I don't know if the *relationship* is better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sweetpeaflower (Sep 23, 2010)

credamdochasgra: Not sure if that is better. That's where I'm at. Less talk= less fights. I bite my tongue constantly with the stepchild and discipline issues. But, now we are miles apart. And to add to all that he lies on a continual basis. I'd like to flip a switch and have a good relationship with him again, but how do you do that will someone you can no longer trust? sex is non-existant, as I have no desire for him who deceives me.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

My changes, for the good, are also happening because "I" chose to change and change the way I "viewed" my husband and how my treatment was directly related to how I viewed him.

I am very independent, always have been, and really have not "needed" anyone but myself. While my husband has admired this quality and has said it's one of the things that attracted him to me, I have discovered that maybe I need to "need" him more. 

Lean on him more. 

Give him the benefit of the doubt that when he does something that irritates me - he just might not be doing it deliberately or with malice.

That he does love me, but shows it differently than I do.

That he is who I married and that I need to adapt to that or move on.

That things are not always as black and white or cut and dried as I think they are. 

And that...drum roll please...I'm not always right.

My husband's father died this past week and his mother passed in January. Both of their deaths have made me realize that our time on this earth is short - we never know when it's going to end and we need to cherish each moment as though it was our last and love those that are in our life like we would love to be loved ourselves.

I've made a concerted effort to love more, crticize less, be more satisfied with what I have and less focused on what I think I'm missing, be more selfless and do things for him that don't necessarily result in a "return investment" for me.

Things have been very calm, loving and more at peace in my home for the last few weeks.

Have all our issues disappeared - no.

Are things perfect - no.

But this I do know - I love my husband as much today as ever and I know he loves me.

Everything else will work itself out in it's own time. I can be the patient, loving, non-judgmental wife that he married and I'm getting closer every day.


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