# Am I missing something?



## tacoma99 (Dec 12, 2012)

So, I'll try to keep things brief. I'm new to TAM, so forgive me if I don't use all the abbreviations! Also, I am FIRMLY committed to making my marriage work and have absolutely no desire to divorce my wife. If the advice you're going to give is "Run!" or "Divorce her!", please don't bother. I am looking for honest advice about how to do something very difficult, not take what I believe in my case, is the easy way out. I have forgiven her for cheating on me, but I cannot forgive her (yet) for the years of lying and manipulation.

My wife cheated in 2007. I found out about it in 2011. When I confronted her, she of course lied about everything. I showed her the proof, and she continued to lie. The continued lies made me think there might be more going on, so I continued digging. My fears were proven correct, so I went back to her with more proof. She admitted only to what proof I had, but was obviously lying about other things. So... I continued digging... and found more. Every time I would go back to her with more evidence, she would admit little bits of the truth, but not everything. 

In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person. I feel that if I have to continually show her the proof just to get her to tell the truth, I will ALWAYS have to be digging just so that I feel like I can trust her. I have proof of EVERYTHING she did with the other guy. I have told her that I have proof, but I have not shown her the specifics. Obviously, she thinks I'm bluffing and am just trying to trick her into admitting everything. 

I know that our marriage can work. But I need her to be honest. I know that she has shown that she is not an honest person, but I believe she can be if she chooses to. We have been going to counseling for over a year, and there has been no progress for either of us. We have a good marriage (minus the trust part) and we have 2 children together. There's a lot worth fighting for. 

I have drawn a line in the sand and I will not cross it. She will come forward with the truth or there will be no forgiveness for the lying and manipulation. I will not show her the proof that I have until she does so. 

Because I have drawn a line that I will not cross and she will not talk about any of it, we have come to an impasse. There is zero communication when it comes to her affair, so I just stay angry all the time.

Is there anything I can do or say, that does not require me to cave in, make threats, or get a divorce? Maybe somebody here sees things differently than I do. The only advice I get from friends is "Get over it" or "Run!" Is there a third option?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

tacoma99 said:


> In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person.


Well, if you're looking for a miracle it probably won't happen.

To get her back, you're going to have to be able to give her up. If you can't do that, suck it up and bend over and hope one day she will change.

Other then that, what else do you want?

It's pretty simple, give her your boundaries of what you need from her, if she says no to them you walk.

Or in your case if she says no then you keep your mouth shut and don't complain and hope she doesn't do it again.

BTW, being scared of losing the one you love really sucks. But the really crappy thing is, being in love with someone who doesn't love you the same way back is even worse. Why would you want that? But I love her so much, and.....??? But she doesn't give 2 cents about you and it's only about her.

I gave you your 3rd option if you HAVE TO MAKE THIS marriage work no matter what, even if she isn't willing to. Bend over.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

You said it yourself - she needs to _choose _to be honest. At this point, she isn't choosing to be honest. 

Does she fear you will leave if her if she admits it? Probably not. You told her you have proof so you already _know_, and you're still there and don't want to leave. 

Maybe she thinks it would be easier if she kept her mouth shut. If she admits to it, then she'll have to deal with her infidelity and the other problems in your relationship. She obviously doesn't want to deal with it. 

Frankly, you can't change her or make her want to be honest with you and work on your relationship. All you can do is know what is and isn't acceptable to you, and act accordingly. Ask her if she wants a divorce, because her choices have led you to believe she doesn't want to be married to you.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Tacoma99... there is nothing YOU can do. YOU have done everything thus far. She isn't remorseful. She isn't offering any info. 

You said you don't want anyone to suggest divorce. You don't want to take the easy way out. What makes you think divorce is the "easy way"??? Both of my sisters have gone through divorce and they can attest that it is anything BUT easy. You don't want anyone to suggest that? Ok... see ya.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You say you've drawn your line in the sand, but you don't say what you're going to do about it if she crosses it, which she is. There have to be consequences to her for not telling the whole truth, and since you aren't willing to end it, what ARE you willing to do?? Threats are no longer threats when they have a clear course of action when what you want doesn't happen. Then they become alternatives. "You either tell me the whole truth or you don't. If you do then we can proceed with R. If you don't then I am going to......". Frankly, anything short of ending the relationship will mean very little.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> Is there anything I can do or say, that does not require me to cave in, make threats, or get a divorce? Maybe somebody here sees things differently than I do. The only advice I get from friends is "Get over it" or "Run!" Is there a third option?


Yes, get over it while running!


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## committedwife (Dec 12, 2011)

tacoma99 said:


> So, I'll try to keep things brief. I'm new to TAM, so forgive me if I don't use all the abbreviations! Also, I am FIRMLY committed to making my marriage work and have absolutely no desire to divorce my wife. If the advice you're going to give is "Run!" or "Divorce her!", please don't bother. I am looking for honest advice about how to do something very difficult, not take what I believe in my case, is the easy way out. I have forgiven her for cheating on me, but I cannot forgive her (yet) for the years of lying and manipulation.
> 
> My wife cheated in 2007. I found out about it in 2011. When I confronted her, she of course lied about everything. I showed her the proof, and she continued to lie. The continued lies made me think there might be more going on, so I continued digging. My fears were proven correct, so I went back to her with more proof. She admitted only to what proof I had, but was obviously lying about other things. So... I continued digging... and found more. Every time I would go back to her with more evidence, she would admit little bits of the truth, but not everything.
> 
> ...


ABSOLUTELY there is a third option. Your wife is wayward. She is like an addict right now, and you need to help her.

First thing: Who is this loser OM she's been with? Is he married? How did they meet? 

Your marriage is very salvageable. You need to take control of this NOW, and you can - tell us more about the OM.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

The THREAT of divorce is a tool.
And so is divorce. 

There are several paths in your future.

1. You continue as you are. She cheats, you discover, you disclose and frown. That's a game you two are playing. And you're losing.

2.You expose the cheating...far & wide. Disclose it to everyone whose esteem she values. Expose the affair to the other man's ( OM) wife or girl friend, parents, etc.
This may cause the OM to drop your wife. But it won't necessarily stop her wayward ways.

3. You play hardball. But you need to act with confidence and courage. Serve her with divorce papers without warning. Go cold, no chats, conversations etc. 

You see Tacoma, women have no respect for men that don't respect themselves. It's a FACT.

She has it in her mind that you are not worthy of her, or any woman's affection - because you grovel, beg, plead, demean yourself.

In her eyes, no real man does that. Not even. A real man, in her view - does what her boyfriends do - they act decisively and take what they want. 

Read the newbie posts - Hope 1964 has a link at the bottom of her post. You are trying to herd cats with your approach. And if you dismiss out-of-hand suggestions that involve hardball you might as well just give her permission to "get it out of her system". Anything else will fail.

Sorry you are in such a horrible situation. You do need help. But you must be willing to really consider the suggestions that have been proven to work (IF there is any real chance at saving the marriage - frankly it is very doubtful in your case).

Good luck


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

tacoma99 said:


> Is there anything I can do or say, that does not require me to cave in, make threats, or get a divorce? Maybe somebody here sees things differently than I do. The only advice I get from friends is "Get over it" or "Run!" Is there a third option?


 You ask in your thread title "Am I missing something? The answer is yes. It is the only advice that you get because they are your only options, but you do not seem to understand what these options really mean. Getting over it without her being honest and showing remorse means that you are in false reconciliation and that she will probably cheat again. Running by filing for divorce and meaning it, if she does not show remorse while also being honest, means that you may give her a real reason to take you seriously and begin the process of true reconciliation. In other words, getting over it means a long and painful death of your marriage, while filing for divorce is the only hope of maybe saving your marriage long term. 

That being said, filing will only save your marraige if your wife really wants to save your marraige. If she does not, then are you not better off finding this our now? The truth is your wife may be a cheater with no remorse at her core and may in fact be cheating right now. If that is the case, there is nothing you can do to change her. If you decide that you will not divorce no matter what, then accept the fact that your wife will be f*cking other men and stop trying to catcher her at it as it will only make you suffer. Stick your head in the sand and wait until she leaves you for a man that demands her respect. If that is the life that you want to live so be it. 

There is no silver bullet that will make her something that she may not be. There is no way to earn her respect without you respecting yourself first. Respect is not given, it is taken. Based on your current course of action I fear that this will not end well for you in the long run. Good Luck and be well


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## duncaterro (Dec 13, 2012)

Maybe she thinks it would be easier if she kept her mouth shut.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I faced the same situation. My wife had an affair which began as an EA in 2008 and morphed into a PA in summer 2009 - Fall 2009. I discovered the relationship in August 2010 but didn't know the extent of the affair. My wife let me believe it was an EA until we separated and she moved out 2 months ago. So she kept this secret for 3 plus years. It poisoned everything.

So we were attempting R - but it was a false R because my wife was hiding the PA. In other words - we were at the same impasse as you and the problem just festered and eventually dominated and poisoned everything. The result was a complete breakdown of any hope of regaining trust and our eventual separation. In hindsight, I should have asked her to leave in 2010 upon discovering the EA and the resulting lies even from that. 

There can be many reasons your wife isn't being truthful - shame, embarrassment, inability to face up to her mistakes.... or she could just be an evil, lying sociopathic cheat. But it's almost guaranteed that if she kept the secret that long, she not going to be truthful unless something happens to make her want to be truthful.

My recommendation is do NOT stay at an impasse. The problems will just fester and your marriage will be killed - completely. Do something to break the impasse. That may mean asking her to leave and going NC during the separation. And she should be the one to leave. My wife wanted me to leave and I refused - saying I was not the one who wanted to be single. Be firm and try not to be emotional (which is tough in these cases). 

Break the impasse, don't let her stonewall anymore.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Well, you don't want the advice of "Divorce," or "Run away!" 

And your wife is a big cake eating, double timing, lying, manipulating, cheating wayward who won't change her ways until the sh!t hits the fan. 

So...

You want your wife to suddenly wake up, realize everything she has done, and beg for your love again?
And I am willing to bet, since you discovered the affair in 2011, you have been trying this for going on 2, maybe even 3 years now. 
You know, the definition of insanity, is doing the exact same thing over and over again, and expecting a different outcome. 

So how many times have you tried getting her to turn around? Ten? Twenty? Thirty? Do I need to go higher? 
I honestly don't know why you are still hanging onto her. 
Your kids will understand if you divorce. 


I guess the only advice I can give, since you say you don't want us tell you what you need to hear...

I hope you are ready to live in a one-way open marriage. Seems like you have been since 2007, and have no intentions to stop it. So might as well get use to it. 
Because until you nut up, your situation won't change.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

You know she is lying. She knows you know and still denies. 

What are your options?

1. Stay
2. Leave 
3. Kick her out

Those are the options you can control. Your WW determines what happens after that. So far you are on option 1. How is it working?


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

If you love something, set it free..

You need to allow yourself to be free before any form of Reconciliation can even begin.

End the MC. It is a waste of time.
Attend Individual counsling.
Expose the cheating to family and friends
Start building a life which is independent of her. She has!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You don't want to hear run or diviorce, so

My advice is to accept that your wfe chose without guilt or remorse to have sex many times with another man. She has shown neither remorse nor guilt, which means she has neither love nor respect for you.

So since you are unwilling to leave someone who doesn't love you, doesn't repesct you, and has no guilt over cheating on you, my advice is to accept it and get used to it because it will happen again.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

H, one other suggestion set:

1. Post the OM on cheaterville.com
2. Take the evidence you have and send it to the OMW
3. Exposé the affair including evidence to family and close friends.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

The most important prerequisite of successful R is the cooperation of the WS. If she is not cooperating you will stay angry and, as cedarman said, it will fester and poison everything.

You need to be more proactive and not wait for her to do the right thing. Have you told her family, friends, OM's wife, co-workers etc. Perhaps fear of others finding out is allowing her to cling to lies. If everyone already knows what she's done she may be more willing to work with you.

You must make sure she knows what you require of her to R. Otherwise her fear, shame, etc. will have her trying to maintain the status quo.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

There is no impasse, she is getting her way. She won't talk about it and that is it. You can continue to hold your breath and get as blue as you like,

Only action works. You don't want to here it or do anything about it, so it is what it is. Get over it is you only option. She knows it and it is time you to realize it.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> My wife cheated in 2007. I found out about it in 2011. When I confronted her, she of course lied about everything. I showed her the proof, and she continued to lie. The continued lies made me think there might be more going on, so I continued digging. My fears were proven correct, so I went back to her with more proof. She admitted only to what proof I had, but was obviously lying about other things. So... I continued digging... and found more. Every time I would go back to her with more evidence, she would admit little bits of the truth, but not everything.
> 
> In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person. I feel that if I have to continually show her the proof just to get her to tell the truth, I will ALWAYS have to be digging just so that I feel like I can trust her. I have proof of EVERYTHING she did with the other guy. I have told her that I have proof, but I have not shown her the specifics. Obviously, she thinks I'm bluffing and am just trying to trick her into admitting everything.
> 
> I know that our marriage can work. But I need her to be honest. I know that she has shown that she is not an honest person, but I believe she can be if she chooses to. We have been going to counseling for over a year, and there has been no progress for either of us. We have a good marriage (minus the trust part) and we have 2 children together. There's a lot worth fighting for.


Do you know who the OM is?

Was the affair exposed, to who?

Are you able to verify NC?

Time to schedule a polygraph test for your WW.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> I am looking for honest advice about how to do something very difficult, not take what I believe in my case, is the easy way out.


Divorce is not the easy way out. It usually means finding another place to live, not having full access to your kids, losing a bunch of your possessions and spending a lot in legal fees, and splitting up any money you have accumulated over the years. It usually means starting to date again, sometimes after 10 or 20 years, which can be a rather daunting task. 



tacoma99 said:


> In short, I have come to the point where I am no longer going to go back to her with proof. I want her to come to me and show that she is remorseful and can be an honest person.
> 
> I have drawn a line in the sand and I will not cross it. She will come forward with the truth or there will be no forgiveness for the lying and manipulation. we have come to an impasse


Both of you are doing nothing. The easiest thing to do, is nothing. Ignore what's going on, pretend life is good and that your marriage is healthy, and wait. Maybe an asteroid will hit the planet and your problems will be solved. 



tacoma99 said:


> I know that our marriage can work. But I need her to be honest.


And I know I can fly, all I need to do is sprout wings.

Your point?




tacoma99 said:


> There is zero communication when it comes to her affair, so I just stay angry all the time.


The effects of conflict and stress are cumulative. 

Something has to give, and it won't be your wife.

*Edited to Add:*



tacoma99 said:


> I just stay angry all the time.
> 
> We have a good marriage (minus the trust part) and we have 2 children together. There's a lot worth fighting for


You say your marriage is good, and you have 2 young children, and those seem to be the main reasons to fight what appears to be a losing battle.

Your marriage isn't as good as you think it is if your wife is getting her needs met somewhere else, at least not from her perspective. If you're angry all the time, you're not having a good time of it either. As far as your kids are concerned, if dad's angry and miserable and mom's out screwing another guy and giving him the attention she's not giving her own family, then it's lose/lose all the way around.

You're fighting a losing battle to try to save something that isn't even worth fixing.


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## committedwife (Dec 12, 2011)

Tacoma, what say you? You've been given advice (I particularly agree with the polygraph).

You can save your marriage, but you are going to have to step up to the plate and define the terms of recovery, my friend. 

The first step is to find out exactly what you're dealing with (polygraph.) In conjunction with that, you're going to need to expose the affair to all affected parties (workplace if applicable, parents, children and any friends who can help you encourage your ww to end the affair.) After that you'll need to make sure all conditions are removed that allowed the affair to happen in the first place. 

I notice that you haven't responded to the posters who have posted to you. Are you still with us?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> If the advice you're going to give is "Run!" or "Divorce her!", please don't bother.


I hate to tell you this pal, but that's like the husband of an alcoholic saying - I want to know how to get her to stop drinking, but don't bother to tell me I need to send her to rehab.

If you truly want unbiased advice, you can't set the parameters. Even if you don't accept it, you should listen to it.


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## tacoma99 (Dec 12, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the input. Some of it was pretty hard to read, but I appreciate it, nonetheless.

The reason I have ruled out divorce is because I already know it's what I don't want. I've been through one before so I know it's not easy, but in this case, I believe it's the easy way out. Faced with the choice of divorce or "bend over" (as one poster put it), I choose to "bend over." But I do believe there is another choice between "bend over" and Stand My Ground. I've been in personal counseling for over a year and this is the point I'm at now, with the help of my therapist. Unfortunately, being the professional that she is, my therapist cannot tell me what she would do in the same situation or what she has done in the same situation. Which is why I came here. You guys, as individuals, could tell me about your situations and what you've faced and I might find hope in those stories and in that advice. 

What I was hoping for was encouragement and maybe some actual concrete help in standing my ground. "Man up", "Grow some balls", and the like isn't the actual concrete help I need. This isn't a question of my manhood or my pride. This is about me saying, "I deserve truth, trust, and respect." On the advice of my therapist, I stopped giving ultimatums and making threats a long time ago. So there is no "Or else!" involved. I deserve truth, trust, and respect. Period. I know that I haven't gotten it in the past, but that is no guarantee that I won't in the future. Both my personal therapist and our marriage therapist have said that it could take a long time to reach that point. And I'm willing to wait for that time. I truly believe that we can and will get there. In the meantime, I am still very angry and feel betrayed every morning. I was just looking for someone to hopefully say, "Hey, try this. It worked for me."

On that note, I have been considering the polygraph for quite some time and have been waiting for the right time to broach the subject with our therapist. So, to whoever suggested that, thank you! I think the best things I've seen are the No Contact letter and Exposure. Those are two avenues I had not even thought of so I am going to seriously consider those. 

I know that my choice to stay is confusing. But I am dedicated to my marriage and to my family, for better or worse. I just think there is another option besides divorce and "bend over."

BTW, isn't "bend over" just another way of saying "Get over it"?


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> But I am dedicated to my marriage and to my family, for better or worse.


Good for her. 



You want members to encourage you when there's no point in it because they cycle will repeat and you'll find yourself digging and digging...endlessly...for the rest of you life. 

If you like what you've become then happy digging!


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## tacoma99 (Dec 12, 2012)

So are you saying there are NO other options other than "bend over" or divorce?

I think I've been pretty specific in what I'm looking for- a third option. It seems like a lot of the responders are projecting their own anger and resentment towards my situation. If you don't have a third option, don't respond.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

You have admitted that she is a liar and only admits to things that you already know. What motivation does she have to be honest? 

Think about it from her point of view:

_Be honest = more damage, emotional pain
Keep quiet = no negative consequences_

If she knows you are never going to divorce her it is logical for her to limit the information she gives you. Only negative consequences for her will motivate her to change her strategy.

What other forms of pressure can you find? Financial? Sexual? Emotional? Social? Perhaps you could write an email exposing her to all her friends, colleagues and associates and threaten to send it if you don't get full disclosure.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Double post. Sorry.


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> Thanks everyone for the input. Some of it was pretty hard to read, but I appreciate it, nonetheless.
> 
> The reason I have ruled out divorce is because I already know it's what I don't want. I've been through one before so I know it's not easy, but in this case, I believe it's the easy way out. Faced with the choice of divorce or "bend over" (as one poster put it), I choose to "bend over." But I do believe there is another choice between "bend over" and Stand My Ground. I've been in personal counseling for over a year and this is the point I'm at now, with the help of my therapist. Unfortunately, being the professional that she is, my therapist cannot tell me what she would do in the same situation or what she has done in the same situation. Which is why I came here. You guys, as individuals, could tell me about your situations and what you've faced and I might find hope in those stories and in that advice.
> 
> ...


First of all, your therapists don't know what they are talking about. The first thing you do in a situation like this is make threats and ultimatums. The problem is you are not willing to follow through so they are useless. 

By the way, what will you do if she refuses to do the No contact letter? 

No bend over is not get over it. 

Get over it means you stop being angry and you stop asking her to change. You happily accept the role she has given you: Wittol. 

Bend over means you will stay where you are and suffer the pain and anger of this everyday until there is no marriage left. 

You have a good marriage minus the trust? Do you really believe that?
She is humiliating you. Why is she worth this pain?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

You haven't answered one of the questions.

What do you know of the OM?


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Never rule out some of your options. You only take away some of your tools in the process. Follow the advice you have been given here and you have the best chance otherwise enjoy the life of cuckold.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

The "third option" you are looking for does not exist, because you have done nothing that gives your wife consequences for her shameful actions. Nothing to break her out of the affair fog. Also remember she is being dishonest to your children as well.

I simply can't get what it is you are looking for here. Maybe you could post specific ideas / plans that you have and people could then comment on those ?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You have to make it harder for her to keep the truth from you than to tell the truth. Currently it's easeir for her to keep the truth from you than to tell you the truth.

You have to look through the points of leverage in your own life situation. Money. Help you provide. Time you spend together. Lie Detector Test. Exposure.

Regarding divorce. The main leverage you have is to tell her what you need in your marriage, ask her to decide if she wants to provide what you need or not. If she tells you she will not provide what you need then you have your answer. If you don't want to get a divorce, you should at least realize that you do not have a wife and live accordingly.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Tacoma...I get it. You're scared. It's okay to admit it. You don't want to hear the advice that many would give you because you're scared that it may cost you your wife and family. Totally understood.

But you've already lost your wife. 

As someone has already said, there IS not reconciliation without brutal honesty of transgressions and admitting the lies. ALL of which are done willingly by the wayward spouse.

You are NOT in reconciliation. You are in Purgatory. You're angry, and I'm sure you know this already, but you're angry because you haven't had any sense of closure on your wife's affair due to her inability to tell you the truth. As a matter of fact, she exacerbates your anger by willfully withholding ANY information from you. That's pretty f'ng bad, bro. I don't say that lightly.

I don't know what kind of music you like or listen to. Actually, it doesn't matter - it's about the message in this song. Stay Together For the Kids

Watch this with her. If it's anywhere close to a "reason" you've given each other, take it from me...it doesn't work. Well, it might work to soothe your conscience for now, but when your kids grow up, I can promise that they will resent you both. I know this only because it's what happened to me. It took me a lot of therapy to work through it. My step idiot was a f-head..not even a man in my eyes. I was verbally abused daily and beat up a few times by him. When I was 20 and my Ma finally left him and I brought her back to her home town I asked why she stayed with him all those years. "I stayed with him for you and your brother".

I didn't talk to her for almost a year.


P.S. You don't have a good marriage.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

I have been following your thread for a little while, I've been reluctant to post here because I sensed you were being very selective with the information you provided. I've read and re-read your opening post, and subsequent replies a few times just to make sure I could properly respond to you. I want to address a few points with you, so you may be required to respond before we get to the "meat" of your original question (is there a third option?)

First to your remark about some people "projecting" their hurt/anger/etc at you with their advice. If you spend some time in the CWI section of this forum, you will notice a pattern to the majority of the stories in the posts. In almost every single story of infidelity one or both of the people involved are in what is commonly referred to as "the fog." Meaning either as a self defense mechanism, or simply because of the severely emotional and deeply personal nature of the topic, the people involved are unable to see the big picture of their situation with any type of logical clarity. In some cases, when a betrayed spouse reads "harsh" or direct advice, they are able to come out of their fog, and act in what would otherwise seem as a counter intuitive fashion, and in doing so, they are able to achieve their goals, which in most cases are to end an affair and begin the long hard road of reconciliation with their wayward spouse. Keep in mind, the people offering advise here are doing so without any direct benefit to themselves, and I would think, have much better things to do with their time than looking for threads to project their anger.

You say you discovered that your wife had an affair in 2007, that you have proof of everything that happened, and that you want her to come clean and not "trickle truth" you. How certain are you that the affair ended? How certain are you that she is not having another affair now?

You say you drew a line in the sand. You want the full truth from her without having to prompt her to tell you that truth. Have you told her directly that those are your expectations? What was her response? What are you prepared to do if your expectations are not met?

What is her outlook on your current relationship? How does she feel about your marriage? How often are you two having sex? You mention that you attend individual counseling, does she currently see a counselor on her own?

I guess once the questions I outline are answered, I can give some input and advice about the "third" option you initially asked about. Looking forward to your reply.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> It seems like a lot of the responders are projecting their own anger and resentment towards my situation. If you don't have a third option, don't respond.


Not everyone who posts here was cheated on... so projecting the anger doesn't apply at all. I am one of them. I have no anger to project. 
I was just being objective but clearly you want to read what makes you feel better. 


I'm out and unsubscribing in a snap of fingers.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

tacoma99 said:


> The reason I have ruled out divorce is because I already know it's what I don't want.


And she knows this too which is why she is not motivated to change. She knows there will be no negative consequences if she lies so she has no reason to be honest. 


> I've been through one before so I know it's not easy, but in this case, I believe it's the easy way out.


And this is bad why? 



> Faced with the choice of divorce or "bend over" (as one poster put it), I choose to "bend over." But I do believe there is another choice between "bend over" and Stand My Ground.


You can't "stand your ground" when you give her all the power. 



> BTW, isn't "bend over" just another way of saying "Get over it"?


More like allow her to screw you over.

This is a hell of your own creation. Your wife is a liar and a cheater and doesn't appear to have any respect for you. You somehow believe you should continue to stay married to a person like that so YOU have to suffer the consequences for your choice.

The only advice I can give for a third option is to make her go the IC. She might either see the error of her ways and do what you are not able to and D you herself. Assuming she humors you and goes (she probably won't since she will have no motivation to).

When people say "D" you don't actually have to go through with it BUT she has to think you will. If she is not afraid of you ever leaving she will walk all over you.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> On that note, I have been considering the polygraph for quite some time and have been waiting for the right time to broach the subject with our therapist. So, to whoever suggested that, thank you! I think the best things I've seen are the No Contact letter and Exposure. Those are two avenues I had not even thought of so I am going to seriously consider those.
> 
> I know that my choice to stay is confusing. But I am dedicated to my marriage and to my family, for better or worse. I just think there is another option besides divorce and "bend over."
> 
> BTW, isn't "bend over" just another way of saying "Get over it"?


Doing nothing is bending over. Getting the whole truth, poly, exposure, if kids DNA test, is working to recover. Recovery can happen but not by leaving out important steps.

Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley today. This book lays out everything needed for you to do.


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## tacoma99 (Dec 12, 2012)

theroad said:


> Doing nothing is bending over. Getting the whole truth, poly, exposure, if kids DNA test, is working to recover. Recovery can happen but not by leaving out important steps.
> 
> Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley today. This book lays out everything needed for you to do.


Thank you theroad! I absolutely agree! Thank you for the encouragement! At no point over the last year have I sat back and done nothing. Every day, I am praying, I am searching, I am talking with my wife, I am talking with our counselors. I am not ever going to let this go, until I hear the truth, so I don't feel like I'm "bending over". That's why its so frustrating when people tell me to get over it... I feel like I have to bend over in order to do that. A polygraph, exposure, etc. are all things that I am becoming more comfortable with doing so I don't plan on ever "not doing anything". I don't want to skip any steps on the way to recovery and reconciliation. I want to confront this completely head on and do everything we can to have a long and successful marriage.

I've read that book (and several others) and found it immensely useful! I might also recommend "How Can I Forgive You?" to anyone looking for advice on forgiveness. It makes a pretty good case for non-forgiveness and is the book that sustains me to do this day.

Thank you!


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Hi T99, 

First let me commend you for your desire to stand for your marriage. Standing does not mean 'bending over' unless you are behaving in a manner that does not agree with YOUR morals. Have you done anything that YOU are not satisfied or content with? If the answer is yes, change that. If the answer is no, DO NOT allow others to decide what is or isn't acceptable to you. That is your choice.

I agree your W is not doing right by you and the M, but unlike others, I don't believe this means she never will.

So, if you want to continue standing in hope that this will work, here's what you need to do. *Completely detach yourself from her actions.* No snooping, no mc, no trying to convince her to sign back up for the M, no polygraphs or panty testing. *No more discussions about the relationship at all.* 

If you haven't exposed the A to everybody, don't. Stop discussing details of your sitch with anyone except one or two close friends. Both of these actions will help keep the return road open and clear.

Then, and most importantly, you GAL. Live your life on your terms. Get out and try new things, meet new people, ENJOY YOURSELF. Don't consider this period in your life as limbo, waiting for her to return. Know that you can be happy without her, and make it so. Move on. 

By doing this you lose the anger, which is not helping you or the M. It also takes the focus off her and the M, and puts it on you and your kids, where it will do you more good no matter how things turn out. 

If and when you ever decide to throw in the towel, you will know it's the right thing to do. If you have to ask yourself if you're done, you're not done. Don't allow ANYONE else make this decision for you.

I have one last point, and I will attempt to say it as constructively as I can. While I recently found there are some great people here, who do a wonderful job of helping others, this is not the best board for people in our position choosing to stand. I say this because even when you explicitly asked to not receive certain advice, look what you got in response. Reading that stuff is not helping you on the path you have chosen, it's hindering it.

If you want additional support, you might want to try posting at the divorce busting online community. No one there will tell you to give up.

Best Wishes.


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## tacoma99 (Dec 12, 2012)

AlmostYoung said:


> Hi T99,
> 
> First let me commend you for your desire to stand for your marriage. Standing does not mean 'bending over' unless you are behaving in a manner that does not agree with YOUR morals. Have you done anything that YOU are not satisfied or content with? If the answer is yes, change that. If the answer is no, DO NOT allow others to decide what is or isn't acceptable to you. That is your choice.
> 
> ...


Almost Young,

Thank you for the support and encouragement. I think the first thing I'm going to do is go check out one of the other websites you mentioned. After that, I still don't know. Moving on with my life still seems like I would be burying my head in the sand or might just be another version of "bend over." But I truly do appreciate your optimism and will definitely take your advice to heart. 

Thank you again!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You seem to be of the opinion that you can reason with her and be nice to get her to return to the marriage. Because you want the marriage to continue.

Have you not realized that the cheating is a blatant rejection of the marriage contract, not only that but it's not rational to do. It is not a reasoned out act, it is a choice to betray you by her.

It's not about bending over or walking away. It is entire about seeing what you are dealing with in it's full ugly truth.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

T99
Don't ask for a poly, NC, etc. Not at all. 
You know why? 
Because she's going to say "What!?, no way T99! No frigginway!"

Then what? You don't have a set of consequences for that outcome do you. You'll just lose face and become even more discouraged. 

If you don't want to *threaten* divorce. Then just forget about it. She may turn out to the the most fantastic and faithful wife there ever was for the rest of your life. Just look at it that way and you can be at peace.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

tacoma99 said:


> If the advice you're going to give is "Run!" or "Divorce her!", please don't bother.
> 
> *I have drawn a line in the sand and I will not cross it. She will come forward with the truth or there will be no forgiveness for the lying and manipulation.* I will not show her the proof that I have until she does so.
> 
> Because I have drawn a line that I will not cross and she will not talk about any of it, we have come to an impasse. There is zero communication when it comes to her affair, so I just stay angry all the time.


What exactly does it mean to say you have "drawn a line in the sand"? Rain will usually wash away any lines in the sand. Yeah, I know it's just an expression. 

You say that IF SHE doesn't tell you the truth on her own, THEN YOU will withhold your forgiveness. Maybe she doesn't care too much if you forgive her. It's fine with her if you never forgive her, as long as you keep going on in the marriage the way you have. So, carry on! If divorce is off the table, then you are at an impasse.

Take a look at the threads here. These cheaters can't tell the truth on their own. Maybe you are expecting too much of her. I am being serious. I would bet that most cheaters NEVER tell the 100% entire full truth. The best it seems to get is that you get enough truth so that her story makes sense, you can make peace with it, and you can move on.

Did you also say that she denied the truth even after you showed her proof? So pretty much a hopeless case in that regard, isn't it?

The marriage is good except for the trust part? I like that one. Made me smile. I have a car like your marriage. My car is good except for the engine part.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Two cents here from an objective party without infidelity in his marriage:

First thing: The divorce option is usually meant as a way to garner both self-respect and respect from the wife. It shows her that you won't have your boundaries crossed and demand she adhere to her part of the marriage contract. It is also a litmus test to see how much she actually cares about you... perhaps you are afraid of using this option because you know she won't fight for you. And it is fear more than rationality or a steadfast resolve to save your marriage that is preventing you from using this card. Remember: divorce proceedings can always be stopped and it gives the wayward spouse a reality check. It is often very beneficial...

Anyway, with that said. Let's assume that's off the table.

What are your options?

1. Tell her you want her to take a polygraph. 
What will she say? 'No.' 
You will say grrr but I'll be very mad if you don't. I will even SULK! 
'Ok Honey. you do that. No polygraph though.'
Well crap that didn't work. hmm what now?

2. You could be mean to her all the time as a consequence. 
Obviously that's ridiculous and will end in divorce at some point.

3. ... I have no idea. Here's the problem

This whole third option is predicated on the idea that you can use some tactic to control someone else's behavior. Her character is not under your control, only your boundaries. The only boundary that you can really set is with not continuing to be in a relationship with someone that doesn't respect you and who is not honest with you. I'm honestly trying to think of some magic trick 3rd option but I can't. Anything you do she can just say no to. 

Exposing just sounds vindictive at this point and after you have exposed she will have no incentive to cooperate. Threat of exposure is just that.. a threat. Precisely what you dont want to do. Threatening to do this (read 'ruin her reputation') in order for her to act against her will is extortion if you think about it. I wouldn't be surprised if this is illegal.

you CANNOT control her, only what you are willing to accept. And if she crosses the line and calls your bluff and you are not willing to walk away then you are accepting her behavior. Dunno what else to say. She's GOT you and knows it. Your disappointed words have no effect on her clearly.


Oh. Here's an option but make sure its not 'abandonment'. Do not divorce or file... Move out to a place nearby, be in regular contact with kids but choose not to participate in the marriage until she is also willing to - Meaning telling you the truth.. Expensive and drastic but its a third option. (check this one with a lawyer first)


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Like all of us LBS's, it seems 99 is looking for the magic answer. There isn't one.

I just looked over your posts 99, and have a few questions. I don't see how long you were married, or how old your kids are. Also, please give us a brief description of your actions to date, upon learning of the affair. How have you handled it? If you've been pursuing her, begging, pleading, sulking, that's understandable, but it is very unattractive and only pushes her away. You have to let her know you're strong and don't need her! 

Don't waste your time worrying about W's antics. That's a dead end waste of your time, because try as you might, you can't control her. Even if you manage to bomb her A as advised, do you really think that's going to make her love you, make her happy to stick around for many more years with the same T99 she's tired of? 

Fix yourself. If your W had an A, and you had a previous failed M, you had a part in each of these. Figure out where you failed and correct it. For you, not her. 

Work on YOU, make yourself the catch of the day, not to win her back, but for yourself. It may make her come back, (then you can decide if you still want her) or it may not. Either way you come out ahead and happy.



T99 said:


> I stopped giving ultimatums and making threats a long time ago.


What were these ultimatums/threats? 

Did she violate them and did you fail to follow up? If so, you have lost credibility. Never make ultimatums you aren't prepared to uphold. It makes you look weak. This is why I flinch every time I see newbies who just got the ILYBINILWY speech being advised to throw down ultimatums as a first course of action. Ultimatums are a last resort, only to be given when you have given up and are ready for D.

Contrary to what many seem to believe, you can set boundaries with consequences without threatening D. Just because your W is in an A and you refuse to D doesn't mean you bake her a cake every day. You need to cut her off. Cut off any benefits you can as long as she refuses to do you right, but be civil about it and show no anger or resentment... you're happy with your new life, remember?


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Well, since you've eliminated divorce as a possibility, I have a suggestion. You said that you forgave her for the cheating, it's just the lies and deception, so you want her to be transparent. 

Offer her this deal: tell her that if she comes clean and is honest about all the details of the past, the two of you will have an open marriage. Fresh start. You get closure, and you both get to see other people. Get regular STD tests and set up a post nup stating that if either of you end up leaving for someone else, you relinquish your share of all marital assets and any possibility of shared custody of your children.


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