# Wife is having an EA and sending Pics....Please Help!



## EHuntIMF

I never thought I would be on here posting, but here it goes......REALLY LONG with background

Wife and I have been married 8 years (9 in Jan.) and we have had the normal ups and down in a marriage. About 3 years ago I had a female friend who I worked with, my wife had described it as a EA, which I subsequently cut off and we went to counseling. The timing of the text and phone calls between us was suspect, but the content of it was harmless, but since my wife found it hurtful I responded to her request and cut off all contact. We went to counseling (We are both spiritual/religious people) and seem to work out our issues and had a stronger marriage. 1 year later, My wife went on a weight loss program and lost over 120lbs and still losing more. She has expressed about joining a gym, but when she had mentioned that, I had a funny feeling about my wife (call it a gut feeling) and began to check phone records....There was a unusually high number of text from one number, and I began to snoop. broke the code on her phone and found some inappropriate text messages, but at the time I didn't have a way to save them. I brought the issue up and she gave me a vague answer about how some of the people she plays with (She's a World of Warcraft Gamer) text her and other members in their "guild" and she and 1 of the guys did have a few inappropriate text, but that she would cut off all contact. She did a NC text/ letter to him and the number disappeared from the bills. We talked about the problems (no counseling this time,[ mistake, I know]) and seem to move past it. Which brings me to the current situation, about 2 months ago (Aug.) The same feeling I had from the last time came back. She was distant from me and began to basically disparage our marriage and saying things like "I wish we would not have gotten married so soon" (We married at 22 & 23 y.o respectively) "I feel trapped in where we live", "I wish I could start over somewhere else" etc.... I took notice of this and tried to talk to her about her feelings and where we were lacking (decent jobs, all bills payed, Just took a surprise trip for her BDay) and she basically shut down on me. I didn't want to press her, but I did begin looking at the cell bills again. What do you know same thing, different number! Now I have been checking periodically on her phone for a year because I had the code, but when I tried to check this time, the code had changed (Red Flag). I then noticed that a whole lot of pictures have been going back and forth between them, but since I didn't have access to her phone I just keep a copy of the bills since Aug (when this started). I have been actively trying to break the code again and was finally able to yesterday (while she was in the shower) There were some photos on her phone of herself (1 risque & 1 explicit) which were never sent to me, but the records show a whole lot of photos have been exchanging between her and this guy. There were a couple of more instances of where she began talking negatively about the marriage and then the dreaded (I am no longer in love with you [Oct. 21st, 2011]). At that point I kept my cool, but knew another guy was in the picture. I had went back to school in August, so our time together has been limited (one of the reasons she stated she was not happy). I was not able to send the photos to my phone yesterday because she was getting out of the shower, so I had to close everything down. I had already begun an exercise program, and it has allowed me to blow off steam and stay motivated to be a better me, if and when this all blows up. I checked the phone this morning, but all the texts & pic she sent and received from this guy had been erased. She has also been talking to him on the cell when I am at school or at church (yes I am getting a VAR with my next paycheck) The problem(s) I have is that she is erasing the texts and pics, I want to put a keylogger on her laptop, but I don't know of a good one and I am afraid that she will find it (she is kinda tech savvy) What other steps do I take from here? My current plan is to 1) lay low (put on a smiling face) and collect as much evidence as I can. 2) Start moving money in another account and buy a car (we only have the one and its in her name only) 3) Expose the affair and making demands. I tried a reverse look-up on the POSOM cell phone number , but all I get is a city and state (number is in Minnesota, and we live on the east coast) I am torn because of the betrayal and I can not sleep at night, and my studies are starting to be affected. I love my wife and I can admit, I have been somewhat of a doormat for the majority of our marriage, but since reading NMMNG and Married Man Sex Life (Athol) I have been making changes to Alpha. What do I do and how long do I let this go while collecting evidence, because my heart and ego are being punished with all the "mind movies" about what they are talking about and pictures they are sending. I am sorry for it being so long, but I wanted everyone to have all the info (including my mistakes) so that you can give me advice with all the information and background. Don't hold back, I read through Sham's thread and I was inspired, so please feel free to share whatever you have for me.


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## Almostrecovered

if you read sham's thread, then you know it may be possible to retrieve deleted texts, what kind of phone?


personally I think you have enough evidence to confront and end the affair


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## Shaggy

It sounds like your doing a lot of the right things.

but think about this - she has done this before, so she is a more experienced liar this time.

The fact that she is doing this again, shows that she is making a conscious choice to be a serial cheater. I think it's time to go Sham on her!


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## EHuntIMF

Almostrecovered said:


> if you read sham's thread, then you know it may be possible to retrieve deleted texts, what kind of phone?
> 
> 
> personally I think you have enough evidence to confront and end the affair


Its an old Samsung phone (not a droid or Iphone) We are due for an upgrade in the next couple of months, but I am afraid that she will change the code again, so I am trying to gather everything I can now. I only have the cell bills, but I don't want her telling me that it was nothing and we didn't do anything wrong (gaslighting?) I want to print out the actual text, and plus with SHAM he needed to back up the logs with a computer, and the only time the phone is not with her is when she is in the shower. Not enough time to run downstairs backup the log and run upstairs to put the phone back.


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## EHuntIMF

Shaggy said:


> It sounds like your doing a lot of the right things.
> 
> but think about this - she has done this before, so she is a more experienced liar this time.
> 
> The fact that she is doing this again, shows that she is making a conscious choice to be a serial cheater. I think it's time to go Sham on her!


I agree, but how would the housing situation work, since its in both our names and she's a stubborn woman who would not move out. Do I move out and risk abandonment?


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## Shaggy

are you going to try to R or is this it? The fact that she has done this serially means that if you don't really impose consequences and try to R, that she will likley repeat down the road. she doesn't have proper boundaries.

If you do want to R, I recommend you don't wait too long however. She's already really deep and getting in deeper, so you need to end it. Hopefully the OM has a OMW and you can blow it up in his face.


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## Almostrecovered

My advice is go see a lawyer ASAP and get the papers and confront her with it, let her know unless you get the truth and transparency you will proceed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

Sorry to hear about this... If your plan is too wait for now, then atleast prepare for the looming confrontation. If I were you in addition to gathering your irrefutable evidence I'd start getting your divorce papers in order, when you do confront you need to be prepared to walk, if you don't have children, are not skipping out on the bills and aren't planning on cleaning out all the assets I don't think it would be abandonment, especially if you've served her with a separation agreement. Either way you should be consulting with legal advice at this point.


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## EHuntIMF

Almostrecovered said:


> My advice is go see a lawyer ASAP and get the papers and confront her with it, let her know unless you get the truth and transparency you will proceed
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i plan on meeting with a lawyer this week. i want to collect evidence so that she can`t deny it and try to take this underground. i love her, but there has been somethings lacking for both of us and i am not sure if i want to R...my thought process is to just let everything go and work solely on me. if she comes back into the picture, then maybe, but its going to take a whole lot of heavy lifting on her part and i`m not sure if she`s built for that. she`s a very proud and stubborn woman
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

then gather all you can from the phone records, find out who OM is and expose when youre ready. Also get a few VAR's and record her convos in the car


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## tacoma

Find out who the OM is and expose to his wife (If he has one) BEFORE you confront your wife.

Let her come to you when the OM`s **** hits the fan.


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## EHuntIMF

tacoma said:


> Find out who the OM is and expose to his wife (If he has one) BEFORE you confront your wife.
> 
> Let her come to you when the OM`s **** hits the fan.


i think the guy is single, but i will confirm. how do i handle the exposure when the OM is single? do i call him directly or what? i would have no problem flying out to his house and leave a "message"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

EHuntIMF said:


> i think the guy is single, but i will confirm. how do i handle the exposure when the OM is single? do i call him directly or what? i would have no problem flying out to his house and leave a "message"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't waste any time on him, he doesn't care and unless you are able to actually enforce a "threat" then anything you say is meaningless. 

If he had a W, then exposure to her could help, otherwise it's a waste of time.


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## Eli-Zor

> i think the guy is single, but i will confirm. how do i handle the exposure when the OM is single? do i call him directly or what? i would have no problem flying out to his house and leave a "message"


You find his name on facebook and message his friends, you track his family down , parents, siblings anyone who affect his life and you expose him as a predator on your marriage. Only when he feels the heat will he step away from your wife.


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## tacoma

EHuntIMF said:


> i think the guy is single, but i will confirm. how do i handle the exposure when the OM is single? do i call him directly or what? i would have no problem flying out to his house and leave a "message"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he`s completely single there`s no point in it.

If he`s married or in a LTR then the first overt move you should make is contact his wife/fiance/girlfriend.

Confrontation directly with him is worthless and could cause problems you`d rather avoid.


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## EHuntIMF

I will try to confirm if he is single or not. I just went through all of the phone records a little bit more closely and discovered that the times I was in class or the nights she missed church because "she wasn't feeling well" She was on the phone with him  All I keep thinking about is having another opportunity to look through her phone for evidence and its killing me. for the past month she has been cold with me. no affection, no hugs, nothing! One of my friends have told me to go ahead and prepare for the fallout if I do discover evidence. The pain is horrible and I still have to go to class tonight, another opportunity to be on the phone with him! She is no longer the person I married....its almost like she's an alien. What is she thinking????


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## Almostrecovered

get a VAR for tonight!!


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## Shamwow

EHunt - man I'm sorry, where you're at sounds very familiar and it's hell. 

You're gonna lose sleep so don't even worry about that for now. VARs...now. Get one today if you can (you can get one for 30 bucks at Best Buy or Target), Take 5 mins to test it, then press record and tape it under a chair or behind a dresser where she most likely will be talking on the phone.

Meantime, with an older Samsung you prob won't be able to get any deleted texts from the past, so as soon as you can start getting the new ones the better. I also don't think spyware will work if she doesn't have a smartphone, so you'll have to keep being covert and grabbing her phone when you can. If her phone has a "forward text" option you can send them to yourself each time you grab it (google the model number for the manual). If you can't forward, I'd just take a picture of the screen of her phone with a camera and start recording them that way.

Since she's gaming, she's prob messaging on the computer while playing, so a key logger will do you a lot of good. Install one now! Come home early from work or at lunch or whatever if you need extra time to make sure it's installed. If she notices it just claim its spyware (not a lie, as they can be installed by accident by many websites that you visit).

I think the VAR is your best bet in the short term, as far as getting the state of the union with where she's at. Do NOT confront the OM yet. Have you tried calling his number from a pay phone to hear if he says his name in the voicemail greeting? You can also hire a PI to get his full name, address and marital status (from just the ph number), though it will cost between $300-600 depending on how hard it is for them. If he is married, get her name and number from the PI as well. Expensive, but trust me, it made all the difference for me to know he was married and have a contact number and name for his W.

Wish you luck, please keep us informed, more than glad to help in any way we can...again sorry you're in this sh*tstorm, it will not be easy. Stay strong and start implementing 180 and continuing to take are of your preparations (sounds like you're on the ball so far).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

The padawan has become the master. I bow.


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## Almostrecovered

Dadof3 said:


> The padawan has become the master. I bow.



it's like watching your son hit his first home run


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## Dadof3

Yea - thats the ticket!


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## Shamwow

Oh, and prob goes without saying, but a word of warning. What you hear her say and read in her texts will most likely be shocking and painful. Probably stuff about you and how crappy your marriage is, how boring you are, how in satisfying you are, the whole ball of wax. Try not to take it to heart, because it sounds like she's deep in te fog and really believes these things at the moment, in order to justify her behavior to herself (and OM). He can do no wrong and is he focus of her life right now. You can break her out of it (whatever the result for your marriage) and I have a feeling you will. I know I could hardly stand to look at my stbxw or watch TV or whatever, once I knew what she was saying to OM, about him, about herself (your W will be talking herself up big time, sexual prowess, etc) and me (all good traits became bad, all bad traits became worse). 

Just go into hyper mode, hit the gym, keep your head and don't let on anything to her until it's time to lower the boom. I look back and see how helpful the anger and adrenaline was for me in that time. Use it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EHuntIMF

Shamwow said:


> Oh, and prob goes without saying, but a word of warning. What you hear her say and read in her texts will most likely be shocking and painful. Probably stuff about you and how crappy your marriage is, how boring you are, how in satisfying you are, the whole ball of wax. Try not to take it to heart, because it sounds like she's deep in te fog and really believes these things at the moment, in order to justify her behavior to herself (and OM). He can do no wrong and is he focus of her life right now. You can break her out of it (whatever the result for your marriage) and I have a feeling you will. I know I could hardly stand to look at my stbxw or watch TV or whatever, once I knew what she was saying to OM, about him, about herself (your W will be talking herself up big time, sexual prowess, etc) and me (all good traits became bad, all bad traits became worse).
> 
> Just go into hyper mode, hit the gym, keep your head and don't let on anything to her until it's time to lower the boom. I look back and see how helpful the anger and adrenaline was for me in that time. Use it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you so much! The earliest i can probably get the VAR is tomorrow. We only have 1 car and she drops me off to class tonight. i leave directly from work to class on tuesday, but i will get the VAR after my afternoon class on wednesday. I haven`t slept at all last night, trying to figure out how to get the info off the phone and what they talk about. i have been praying and trying to keep a smile on my face when i am around her. she keeps looking at me like i disgust her and doesn`t even want to kiss me or touch me. i will try not to take things to heart, but it still sucks in feeling like my marriage is going to end. the $600 bucks for the PI will take some time to get, but i know it would be a good investment. thanks for everyones heIp will try to make sure i follow the steps and not be hard headed about this. this pain just sux
_Posted via Mobile Device_ also sham: do you recommend any particular keylogger, i know i will have a few hours to myself on saturday with her laptop. how would i get the info off the keylogger after its installed?


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## EHuntIMF

Question for the group: Its currently day 3 since I found the pics on my wife's phone. Every since then I tried to look at the phone, but everything is erased and by the looks of it everything is on the up and up, but the phone records says otherwise. Has anyone else been in the same situation of trying to gather evidence, but it seems to take forever? How do you stop doubting yourself and what you are trying to do in order to not give up? 

Just seeking some thoughts....Just seem like the days are getting longer inbetween times of trying to get to her phone


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## Almostrecovered

She obviously knows you're onto her and is covering it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rob774

Stay strong... be vigalent!!! Just because she's gotten better at hiding her dirt, doesn't mean this has all gone away. At best, she may be thinking your snooping on her phone, she won't be prepared for the voice recorder. Shame you can't get 2, because you know she calls him the second she drops you off, so i'd want to put one in the car as well, under the seat.

But you are on the right track, gather all your evidence first... than approach her. Her response will tell you if your marriage is worth saving. Pain and regret... well there's still a chance. Gaslighting, Anger of trying to "flip the script" ... well that should tell you all you need to know about your chances. Good luck, following some of these stories keeps us readers on the edge of our seats, sorry to read that you have to go through this though.


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## tacoma

EHuntIMF said:


> Question for the group: Its currently day 3 since I found the pics on my wife's phone. Every since then I tried to look at the phone, but everything is erased and by the looks of it everything is on the up and up, but the phone records says otherwise. Has anyone else been in the same situation of trying to gather evidence, but it seems to take forever? How do you stop doubting yourself and what you are trying to do in order to not give up?
> 
> Just seeking some thoughts....Just seem like the days are getting longer inbetween times of trying to get to her phone


It`s frustrating but the very fact that she is selectively deleting texts is evidence she`s up to no good.

Keep at it and get that VAR.


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## Shamwow

3 days seems like an eternity right now, but keep your head and get your evidence calmly and smoothly. If it takes a week or two (which i doubt it will) it'll seem like a short time in the grand scheme. No need to be all smiles with her, but I wouldn't go straight cold with her either, you want her to continue as if all is normal. At least be thankful he's not across town. You have time. You're doing well, keep it up and know this will get better, whatever the ultimate outcome.

Individual counseling helped me a lot, maybe quietly set up an appt with a therapist for tomorrow or Fri if possible to get some of this off your chest?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

EHuntIMF said:


> There were some photos on her phone of herself (1 risque & 1 explicit) which were never sent to me, but the records show a whole lot of photos have been exchanging between her and this guy. There were a couple of more instances of where she began talking negatively about the marriage and then the dreaded (I am no longer in love with you [Oct. 21st, 2011]). At that point I kept my cool, but knew another guy was in the picture. I had went back to school in August, so our time together has been limited (one of the reasons she stated she was not happy). I was not able to send the photos to my phone yesterday because she was getting out of the shower, so I had to close everything down.


You had enough evidence right there and let it get away. Next time take her phone into another room and send them to you. It does not matter if she finds out what you are doing because you should have confronted her on the spot anyway.

I do not understand the logic of collecting enough evidence so that she cannot deny it. What difference does it make if she admits to it or not? You saw it. You know what it going on. Act on it right now. You do not need her approval to do what you know is the right thing to do. She does not care about what you think, why do you care so much about what she thinks?


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## Dadof3

Agree with TRy here. What diff does it make it you catch her banging the OM vs. finding a used condom in your bed and u don't use them. (I use this as an analogy). If u see smoke, don't wait for the house to burn down before calling the fire dept. 

Any picting / sexting from W to others is def cheating. Don't put up with it already!


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## Lon

The point of waiting and investigating is to learn the full extent so that you can get past the inevitable trickle truth. And by full extent I don't mean did he penetrate, I mean how often, where, how, nasty details that no man wants to hear about his W with OM but NEEDS to know if he wants to have any chance to save his marriage. In certain jurisdictions it may also be helpful if this goes to divorce court in order for him to protect himself. But I agree that if there is smoke don't sit and allow the embers to flare up again, time isn't really on your side, if she is about to meet with OM then he must be proactive about confronting her, he just needs to have the best shot at killing her EA and getting her out of the fog, and to not buy into the trickle truth, blame-shifting and gaslighting she will keep doing.


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## EHuntIMF

Hey Guys.....I understand the point of confronting her then and there, but like Lon said, I need to know the full extent so she won't gaslight me or trickle truth the situation. This is a one shot deal for me! Basically I moved out here to be with her, so my own family support system is on the other side of the country, so help from the (financial or otherwise) family would be close to non-existent. I want to have the evidence in black and white (and maybe some color pics) so that I can proceed calmly with the plan. Also in addition to gathering evidence I need to find out about the OM and his situation because if he is married or LTR then the OMW will need to know as well(exposure). This will take some time to get the money together because I don't have 300-$600 laying around to give to a PI to find out all of this stuff. I have read on this site too many times where guys move too fast to confront, get trickle truth'd to death, and in up in a worse emotional state then when the whole thing started. Plus she's a proud and stubborn woman (daddy's girl) who will omit details to save face, but I am really close to her dad and if I have the evidence to show him why I kicked his daughter out of the house, then it saves me from more drama than what this is already going to cause. I'm not trying to do the whole he said/she said with everyone in the church and family. My ideal response will be,"She has made a decision to not be a wife and I am moving on. If you want to question my decision I have evidence to back up my side." that way I can be done and not have to explain everything to everyone. I have gotten the 1st VAR, and will be getting the 2nd next week. The keylogger will be on her laptop by Saturday afternoon, I'm trying to move as fast as I can, but I just found out on Monday.....geesh.....


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## Lon

EHIMF, yeah do take a little time to put together a strategy, make sure you have enough but also know that you will never get ALL the answers, even months/years down the road. It mostly just has to be enough irrefutable stuff to throw at her if she starts minimizing it. So when you are otherwise ready to confront, don't let some missing piece of the puzzle keep you from doing what you need to do - there is always blank spaces to fill in just make sure that she isn't the one to fill those in for you. As to her father, I wouldn't just give over the evidence to him, just tell him the summary of what you know and tell him that you have hard evidence that supports it all - seeing the details of his daughters affair is not going to get him in your corner more than he is, it'll just upset him and remove him from the equation.


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## TRy

EHuntIMF said:


> Hey Guys.....I understand the point of confronting her then and there, but like Lon said, I need to know the full extent so she won't gaslight me or trickle truth the situation.


 What difference does it make if she gaslights you? She knows that she is cheating and lying about it. You know that she is cheating and lying about it. Why is it important to you that she admit it to you and agree that you have a right to act? You do not need her permission to to acknowledge what you know to be true. 

Gaslighting only matters if you value her opinion over your own. Dude, you saw the images with your own eyes. Although she has conditioned you otherwise, your opinion matters. And in this case it should be the only one that does.


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## Sindo

TRy said:


> What difference does it make if she gaslights you? She knows that she is cheating and lying about it. You know that she is cheating and lying about it. Why is it important to you that she admit it to you and agree that you have a right to act? You do not need her permission to to acknowledge what you know to be true.
> 
> Gaslighting only matters if you value her opinion over your own. Dude, you saw the images with your own eyes. Although she has conditioned you otherwise, your opinion matters. And in this case it should be the only one that does.


He'd still be in a much stronger position if he had firm evidence. He doesn't, and if he is able to get it, he should.


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## TRy

Sindo said:


> He'd still be in a much stronger position if he had firm evidence. He doesn't, and if he is able to get it, he should.


Much stronger position to who? It does not matter to his wife because even if she does not admit it she knows that she is in the wrong. It does not matter to a divorce judge who cheated on who when granting a divorce. So who is this mythical person that he needs this evidence for? The only one that needs to be convinced is him. Once he saw the pictures, it does not matter that she deleted them, because "he" already saw them and he is the only one that needed to be convinced that they existed for him to act.

The fact of the matter is that standing by and gathering more evidence for others as you know that your wife is cheating on you, servers no real purpose other than to avoid an unpleasant confrontation.


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## tacoma

TRy said:


> The fact of the matter is that standing by and gathering more evidence for others as you know that your wife is cheating on you, servers no real purpose other than to avoid an unpleasant confrontation.


Certainly it does.

If wanting reconciliation you must first get your spouse to admit the infidelity and show remorse.

They don`t usually do this unless confronted with serious objective evidence.

It also enables the BS to "Go Nuclear" if he/she wishes to shock & awe the WS out of the fog.

I know if my wife were cheating the road to recovery would be long, hard, and filled with gaslighting and trickle truth if I called her on a few texts.
If I used those texts as a starting point to get embarrassing emails, voice recording, and tracking info of where she was then served her with divorce papers & informed the Om`s wife before ever even mentioned I had a clue it`d hit her like a ton of bricks.

She`s much more likely to be pliable and her affair would have been severely damaged if not destroyed.

She`d be hanging by a thread and she`d know it.

She`d have to be compliant or lose everything.


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## TRy

tacoma said:


> Certainly it does.
> 
> If wanting reconciliation you must first get your spouse to admit the infidelity and show remorse.
> 
> They don`t usually do this unless confronted with serious objective evidence.
> 
> It also enables the BS to "Go Nuclear" if he/she wishes to shock & awe the WS out of the fog.
> 
> I know if my wife were cheating the road to recovery would be long, hard, and filled with gaslighting and trickle truth if I called her on a few texts.
> If I used those texts as a starting point to get embarrassing emails, voice recording, and tracking info of where she was then served her with divorce papers & informed the Om`s wife before ever even mentioned I had a clue it`d hit her like a ton of bricks.
> 
> She`s much more likely to be pliable and her affair would have been severely damaged if not destroyed.
> 
> She`d be hanging by a thread and she`d know it.
> 
> She`d have to be compliant or lose everything.


So the evidence is for the wife. Here is the problem with that. The longer you let the affair go, the stronger that it gets and the less likely that she will want to break it off when you do confront.

You say that the evidence will allow you to go "Go Nuclear" so that you can "shock & awe the WS out of the fog". Well guess what. He can do that now. Again, he saw the pictures and so did she. If he goes nuclear, although she will lie to his face, she will know that he must have seen the pictures and will know why he went nuke on her. In fact by going nuke on her without showing her everything that he knows, she will not know exactly what he knows, only that he knows enough and may assume that he knows more than he does. There will be the same "shock & awe" but with her having less time invested in the affair.

Sitting back and allowing the OM even more time to cheat with your wife as you gather evidence for your wife that she already knows about makes no sense. The fact that she will know that you were so beta that you actually did this, will work against you in getting her back from the OM. Stop think only what she thinks matters. Act on what you know because what you think matters too.


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## tacoma

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I've seen what works nd what doesn't and the course you advocate usually drags out the trickle and actually allows the affair to go on longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EHuntIMF

Right now its an EA, but I am not one to rush into this situation lightly or haphazardly. I understand your reasoning behind confronting now and "you know what you know", however there are other matters that are connected as well. My position if confronting now would be nothing more than he said/she said and would make any already tense living situation worse. Also, why the hell should I allow the OM to sleep peacefully, and carry-on with his life with no consequences?!?! I will continue on this path that has been set before me and I will leave this whole situation with honor and my dignity intact (Thanks SHAM) i do not want to have any regrets or shoulda/coulda/woulda thoughts when all of this comes out. Yes, the more time passes the stronger the EA gets, but you have to realize that my WS is going to lose more than what she bargained for when her little 20% fantasy comes crashing down and there is no one there to help or support her. TRY- I just don't want to confront her.....I want to destroy any avenue or possibility of her lying to herself, or anyone else about the real cause of the break-up of our marriage. When everything is in black and white, you may be able to lie to yourself, but the whole world will know who you really are.


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## TRy

EHuntIMF said:


> Yes, the more time passes the stronger the EA gets, but you have to realize that my WS is going to lose more than what she bargained for when her little 20% fantasy comes crashing down and there is no one there to help or support her.


If getting back at her is the only goal, then continue.


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## Dadof3

In my humble view of the world - I see the pros and cons of both what TRy and Tacoma are saying. 

I have the type of personality that tries to take the approach that takes both pros and cons into account.

While it would be nice to "hit her with a ton of bricks" evidence and yet also prevent the amount of time it takes to let this EA evolve deeper, I favor the hybrid approach.

You have a direct conv with your wife and list all the things you do know, with how you view these in respect to your marital boundaries and let her know what the consequences of those are.

Sure, she will (maybe) gaslight, blameshift, and push the EA deeper underground - but if there is truly any hope for the marriage that she may still harbor - this might also give her a beacon of light to come out of the fog.

She needs to see strong and dependable right now - this isn't an invitation to rug sweep. This is an invitation to reverse the train wreck. You let her know how much you value her and the marriage, but at the same time, let her know that you respect yourself and her too much to allow this to continue and that you are available for her to reveal her thoughts, plans, etc without yelling or criticism and try to develop an action plan to reverse the EA course. 

Explain to her some of the dynamics you've learned about men and women and marriage. There's a lot of stuff we've been taught and incorrectly lead to believe regarding the roles of the sexes in marriage. What you tell her, while initially being resisted, will strike a chord somewhere and she'll begin to develop the confidence in you as a man who will protect her and provide her with her needs.

This is important. And then leave the door open to her to come back to open up as she gets her head around things. She might ask for space, for separation. Explain to her that it doesn't work like she imagined it would. 

the only separation you will tolerate in the marriage is the complete dissolution of the marriage. If she needs to leave for a few days, she does it on her dime. 

I have found not only as an employee and a manager that people crave and need feedback in relationships but realized that this is necessary as a husband and a father. This type of feedback builds on emotional intimacy (which often feeds their escape / affair fantasies) and builds confidence in the security of the marriage. 

Strength, clarity, love, dependability, protection. I think these are the traits that our women want and need.


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## lordmayhem

EHuntIMF said:


> Right now its an EA, but I am not one to rush into this situation lightly or haphazardly. I understand your reasoning behind confronting now and "you know what you know", however there are other matters that are connected as well. My position if confronting now would be nothing more than he said/she said and would make any already tense living situation worse. Also, why the hell should I allow the OM to sleep peacefully, and carry-on with his life with no consequences?!?! I will continue on this path that has been set before me and I will leave this whole situation with honor and my dignity intact (Thanks SHAM) i do not want to have any regrets or shoulda/coulda/woulda thoughts when all of this comes out. Yes, the more time passes the stronger the EA gets, but you have to realize that my WS is going to lose more than what she bargained for when her little 20% fantasy comes crashing down and there is no one there to help or support her. TRY- I just don't want to confront her.....I want to destroy any avenue or possibility of her lying to herself, or anyone else about the real cause of the break-up of our marriage. When everything is in black and white, you may be able to lie to yourself, but the whole world will know who you really are.


Alright Ethan, then your mission is, should you choose to accept it, is to gather the necessary intelligence about your WW and her OM for the confrontation.

The upside is that if your WW is guarding her phone, then THAT is the affair phone and she hasn't gone to a disposable one. IF your WW is using AT&T or T-Mobile, or any other service that uses a SIM card, there is the possibility of getting a SIM card reader, because even deleted texts are stored on there. However, you have to find the right one and there are mixed reviews on the net on the different ones, so this is no guarantee. If your WWs phone is using Verizon or any other CDMA service, then sorry, but your SOL on that. You are authorized to utilize whatever means at your disposal to accomplish this mission.

Your secondary tools will be the computer monitoring software and VARs. Hide the VARs in strategic locations where she is likely to be talking or texting OM.

If you are discovered, we here at TAM will disavow all knowledge of you. This tape will self destruct in 10 seconds....


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## Almostrecovered

I think time of confrontation sometimes depends on the BS, some simply aren't savvy or strong enough to confront without hard evidence (not trying to cast aspersions on anyone in particular since I was one in this group at one point) and simply paint themselves into a bad corner where the affair then goes underground


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## Shamwow

I can only speak from personal experience, but I tried several "soft" confrontations before getting all the evidence I needed...wouldn't say it did harm, but it certainly dragged out the situation for longer than it should've. I needed that hard evidence because I loved my W and my marriage, and didn't think I'd be able to live with the decision to drop the bomb on it without knowing for sure that I was maiking an informed decision. For example - she had explicit pics on her phone. There were pics sent to OM. But EHunt, despite the overwhelming probability (or certainty) that the explicit pics were sent to OM, he doesn't KNOW that for sure. I needed to know. I think lots of people would need to know. Some don't. That's cool too. Handling a situation like this in a manner you won't be comfortable with when looking back in the future is something many people think about.

Who cares if she gaslights? EHunt does! I did. My W was darn good at it, and she did turn me around a few times (insert beta comment here - I know)...EHunt wants to avoid this, especially since he's stated his W is stubborn, proud and I'm guessing very smart. Doesn't make him beta to know this - just means he is taking the whole picture in before blowing up and showing all his cards. I don't see anything wrong with that. Sure, if he were more b*lls to the wall Alpha from the get-go, he would've pounced on it and crushed in a way that she respected...but as TAM can prove, many men find themselves beta-ized to a degree after years of marriage, and it's a learning process no matter who you are. (EHunt - not saying this describes you...it described me though when my SHTF...I don't think you can go all Alpha without laying the groundwork first, or you can come across as crazy. It's an artform that takes time to engrain into your personality before it's more natural).

If your W had a trip to MN planned, the clock would be ticking more than it is. Right now I actually do think time is on your side, but you certainly don't want to avoid it and see what happens a few weeks or months down the road. Gather, gather, gather. Then see a lawyer. Then lift some weights, get a good night's sleep and then confront her.

Have you called the OM's number from a payphone yet (preferably from a different area code than your W's number)? If you get his name you may be able to save a lot of PI money in finding out his situation. Have someone else call from a different area code if you want. Just try to get his VM greeting and get a name. Heck, maybe he even says his business info in the greeting. If you reach him personally, say "Is this Rob (or whatever name sounds good at the moment)? He might say no this is ___ (but prob not). Then "oops wrong number" and hang up. Try again some other time.

You're doing well...


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## EHuntIMF

Shamwow said:


> I can only speak from personal experience, but I tried several "soft" confrontations before getting all the evidence I needed...wouldn't say it did harm, but it certainly dragged out the situation for longer than it should've. I needed that hard evidence because I loved my W and my marriage, and didn't think I'd be able to live with the decision to drop the bomb on it without knowing for sure that I was maiking an informed decision. For example - she had explicit pics on her phone. There were pics sent to OM. But EHunt, despite the overwhelming probability (or certainty) that the explicit pics were sent to OM, he doesn't KNOW that for sure. I needed to know. I think lots of people would need to know. Some don't. That's cool too. Handling a situation like this in a manner you won't be comfortable with when looking back in the future is something many people think about.
> 
> Who cares if she gaslights? EHunt does! I did. My W was darn good at it, and she did turn me around a few times (insert beta comment here - I know)...EHunt wants to avoid this, especially since he's stated his W is stubborn, proud and I'm guessing very smart. Doesn't make him beta to know this - just means he is taking the whole picture in before blowing up and showing all his cards. I don't see anything wrong with that. Sure, if he were more b*lls to the wall Alpha from the get-go, he would've pounced on it and crushed in a way that she respected...but as TAM can prove, many men find themselves beta-ized to a degree after years of marriage, and it's a learning process no matter who you are. (EHunt - not saying this describes you...it described me though when my SHTF...I don't think you can go all Alpha without laying the groundwork first, or you can come across as crazy. It's an artform that takes time to engrain into your personality before it's more natural).
> 
> If your W had a trip to MN planned, the clock would be ticking more than it is. Right now I actually do think time is on your side, but you certainly don't want to avoid it and see what happens a few weeks or months down the road. Gather, gather, gather. Then see a lawyer. Then lift some weights, get a good night's sleep and then confront her.
> 
> Have you called the OM's number from a payphone yet (preferably from a different area code than your W's number)? If you get his name you may be able to save a lot of PI money in finding out his situation. Have someone else call from a different area code if you want. Just try to get his VM greeting and get a name. Heck, maybe he even says his business info in the greeting. If you reach him personally, say "Is this Rob (or whatever name sounds good at the moment)? He might say no this is ___ (but prob not). Then "oops wrong number" and hang up. Try again some other time.
> 
> You're doing well...


Thanks everyone! I am trying to best I can, but this avenue of having a WS is new to me. The pics have shown me that this is a new level. Should I have been b*lls to the wall and pounced? Probably, I would then be left with several other issues to deal with that doesn't even include the WS. Sham you are right, if there was a trip planed to MN, then I would probably be more reckless and b*lls to the wall, but would it accomplish anything? I had to take this entire week and figure out if I wanted to still be in this marriage. If she meets certain requirements I have (post confrontation) then I would consider it, but the moment she trickle truths I'M OUT! That's the reason i am gathering, to see what is she going to do, regardless of how I am feeling right now this is a woman I spent almost 10 years of my life with. I moved across the country to be with her, so I believe that does give her a small chance at R, but what she does directly after the hammer drops will determine which path I take. Our financial situation is such that I couldn't effectively function without her (1 car in her name only). So I am also taking this time to see what my bills, taxes, and needs will be when we split. There are greater repercussions to consider as well that I have to consider (Separation before Dec 31st- Larger tax bill; $$$ for 2nd car to continue going to work, Payment of the house if she leaves, steps to maintain credit rating in case of separation must be followed as well.) Again, its only been 4 days (found pic on monday), but I am moving as fast as I can to put an end to all of this. VAR didn't turn up anything because she was in another room, but I know they talked for about 15 minutes, but I will have 2 more VAR's by next Friday. I will also be placing a keylogger on the laptop this weekend, and see what that brings up. Have patience with me, I am doing the best that I can. Good job Lordmayhem on the IMF reference :smthumbup:


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## lordmayhem

I'm sorry Mr. Hunt, I don't know what you're talking about.


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## Shaggy

I would like to suggest planning for how you will track her post DD and put that in place now. If she decides to leave and have some space how will you know where she is and what she is up to.

Think through the various things she might do and plan your response now instead of making it up then when things are flying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

Thats the problem with separations, friend. 

They get to do what they want, as you do too. It comes down to how well W and you honor your marriage vows. 

For cheaters, it often gives them time to seal the deal / try out greener pastures. For the betrayed spouse - its misery. This is why doing 180 is important. 

You can't control what she does / goes. You can only establish your boundary and consequences for her violating such. You have to think right now what happens if she leaves and sows her wild oats and wants to come back. This is why, in my opinion, this needs to be a frank and honest discussion when this option comes up with consequences laid out.


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## EHuntIMF

I have planned for that.....More than likely she'll go to her mothers house to stay, but I have already decided that if she wants to leave the house I'm not going to stop her.....Divorce will be the next step with a hard core 180, no R possible. Before she makes that decision when the hammer falls, I give her 2 choices :1. Stay, NC with the OM, full transparency (w/ keylogger to verify without her knowledge), and heavy lifting on her part to convince me she is capable of having a chance at R, or 2. Leave and try to run away from the damage she has caused and/or run to the OM, then D is full on without stopping, R is not an option.

The reason for the D being on without stopping is that if she makes the decision to leave, then to me she doesn't want to be married and take responsibility for her actions, and therefore to me the marriage at its present state must be symbolically killed off. If there is hope for R, then it would have to be under the premise of a new relationship being built from the ground up.

I have already installed a GPS on the car, but I have also entertained the notion of when she decides to run away, I call the OM and have him come pick her up (because I figure if he is going to enjoy 20%, he might as well come get the other 80% and I would help her pack)

too much???


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## Dadof3

Mr Hunt - I wish I could give you a great big KISS! (JK)

Wow. Powerful plan. I think I...... LIKE IT!


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## Shamwow

Powerful plan indeed. Here is a man who has his s*** together.

And absolutely, (once again just my opinion) if she says she wants to leave or divorce, immediately and without hesitation agree with her 100%, that will have the most powerful effect on her view of you...that you will not be toyed with or trampled. When my stbxw first said the words separation and divorce, I was prepared for it (because let's face it, once that sense is out there in a relationship it's a strong likelihood anyway) and said something like "Okay, if that's what you want, don't let me stand in your way"...she then backed down and said she needed more time to think. I went out and got a lawyer (though I didn't want to). If she wants to R, you'll know it soon enough. If not, ditto. 

Good luck Ethan, know how hard this all is right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

I like it. If I could add one thing, put the OM on speed dial, for if you need to call him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

I know you`re busy Hunt but I don`t want you to forget to use some resources on finding out anything and everything you can about the OM.


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## EHuntIMF

UGH!!!!! I need to get the 2nd and 3rd VAR STAT! She was on the phone with the OM at 1AM (over an hour) and was texting him until 3AM (Sent 2 pics during that time) didn't find out until this morning checking the phone records. She was always on the phone with him when I had to go to work this morning. I planted the VAR in the car and she's off to her friends house. When she was getting to ready to leave (after I checked the phone records) and asked her "Are we ok?" and she said,"We are working on it." I then asked, "Is there anyone else? (emotionally, physically) and she said no, but the way she said it was not definitive. Even though I knew the answer, I wanted to see if she would own up to her s**t and she failed in an epic way! If she would had done a better job on her facial expressions, I might have believed her (NOT!) Oh well, I guess I will just have to get the hammer ready sooner than later! I'M DONE WITH THIS BS, but I'm going to be smart about this and leave with all dignity intact! IMF is active!


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## bryanp

Do you honestly think that your wife would put up with the amount of humiliation and disrespect from you if the roles had been reversed? If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.


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## TRy

Yesterday, at 09:19 AM you stated:


EHuntIMF said:


> TRY- I just don't want to confront her.....I want to destroy any avenue or possibility of her lying to herself, or anyone else about the real cause of the break-up of our marriage.


Today, at 11:16 AM you stated:


EHuntIMF said:


> I'M DONE WITH THIS BS, but I'm going to be smart about this and leave with all dignity intact! IMF is active!


It took you just a little over 24 hours to find your balls. After reading other threads on this board, I find that rather impressive. Welcome back to being you.


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## EHuntIMF

Question for the Group: What feelings do you experience when you find out information about the OM and you feel you are the better option overall (ex. job, looks, values, character) 

Found out some info about the OM and right now honestly, I'm not feeling anything..... 
When looking at the stats between us (OM and Myself) I come out on top in every category....so there is a bit of confusion about her choice.

Any inputs, advice, or suggestions (Besides the obvious kick her out and let her see how dumb of a choice she made yada yada yada....I get that one. That is firmly my first choice as well!)


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## Shamwow

EHuntIMF said:


> Question for the Group: What feelings do you experience when you find out information about the OM and you feel you are the better option overall (ex. job, looks, values, character)
> 
> Found out some info about the OM and right now honestly, I'm not feeling anything.....
> When looking at the stats between us (OM and Myself) I come out on top in every category....so there is a bit of confusion about her choice.
> 
> Any inputs, advice, or suggestions (Besides the obvious kick her out and let her see how dumb of a choice she made yada yada yada....I get that one. That is firmly my first choice as well!)


For what it's worth, she is having an EA with him, so he comes out on top to her at the moment. Because she's in the fantasy she minimizes your good qualities and magnifies all of his, no matter how inadequate he is. He does something for her that excites her, but it's not based in reality. Of course at some point she'll realize this, but right now it's a thrill for her to get this kind of attention from someone new...it's wrong and she knows it. But it's her drug at the moment, and it will shock her when you take it away from her.

I really hope she fesses up to the fullest extent when you decide to confront her...either way, she'll be upset, and may try to make you feel small and wrong for prying and finding out the details of her indiscretions.

Maybe try not to stew on the fantasy, because it only makes sense to her. Just be the better man in your daily life. If she comes around and truly and remorsefully lays all her cards on the table for R, rock on. If not, you're still the better man.


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## Dadof3

your wife obviously has a different rating system than you. would be good if you found out what areas have a higher rating than what you would rate as best.

doesn't make her behavior right, but might help you figure out areas that are important to her, if for some weird reason that R is in the cards.


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## Almostrecovered

Ive seen it across the board as to the OM/OW- 

some are losers (Like HiT's OM)
some are dopplegangers (like mine)
and some are beter in some categories

no need to overanalyze what OM has over you, because it's endorphins and the excitement that wins over your wife


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## EHuntIMF

Almostrecovered said:


> Ive seen it across the board as to the OM/OW-
> 
> some are losers (Like HiT's OM)
> some are dopplegangers (like mine)
> and some are beter in some categories
> 
> no need to overanalyze what OM has over you, because it's endorphins and the excitement that wins over your wife


Its funny because ever since I asked her "if there is anyone else?" the communication between the 2 has gone down dramatically. Is this a sign that its gone underground? Its only been 2 days (Saturday) but the amount of text and phone calls have decreased. Should I wait this and see if it picks back up or are there other options? What is going through her mind right now to choose him over the marriage?:scratchhead:


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## Shaggy

The var is what will answer your questions I believe
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Don't second guess her , waywards are devious. Your wife may taking it slowly or gone underground. You have a plan stick to it and do not doubt yourself .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow

Endorphines are going through her mind unfortunately. Excitement and fear.

She definitely told him they had to cool it down after you raised suspicion. Keep an eye out for a prepay phone you don't recognize.

Have you been able to crack her new laptop pass code?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

She's already had two EAs with people she's never even met. This sounds like deep seated psychological problems. How the devil do people fall in love with someone they have never seen in person. Its absolutely ridiculus.

You shold get the last few months phone records and show her how the calls to OM correlate to the way she has shut down her marriage. and then throw the pictures in. I really don't see the need for that much more detective work. If she denies get the OM on the phone where you all can discuss it.


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## Unsure in Seattle

They're not in love. They're in love with being in love, or whatever childish, immature coat of paint you want to put on it.


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## EHuntIMF

Shamwow said:


> Endorphines are going through her mind unfortunately. Excitement and fear.
> 
> She definitely told him they had to cool it down after you raised suspicion. Keep an eye out for a prepay phone you don't recognize.
> 
> Have you been able to crack her new laptop pass code?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


haven`t been able to crack the code, but still working on it. VARs aren`t picking up anything because they haven`t called each other since i brought up the question. i am on the lookout for the prepaid and will be keeping an eye out for changes...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladybird

You can get his name through a reverse phone search.. You will have to pay for it, but it would be much cheaper then paying for a PI.


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## ladybird

EHuntIMF said:


> Thank you so much! The earliest i can probably get the VAR is tomorrow. We only have 1 car and she drops me off to class tonight. i leave directly from work to class on tuesday, but i will get the VAR after my afternoon class on wednesday. I haven`t slept at all last night, trying to figure out how to get the info off the phone and what they talk about. i have been praying and trying to keep a smile on my face when i am around her. she keeps looking at me like i disgust her and doesn`t even want to kiss me or touch me. i will try not to take things to heart, but it still sucks in feeling like my marriage is going to end. the $600 bucks for the PI will take some time to get, but i know it would be a good investment. thanks for everyones heIp will try to make sure i follow the steps and not be hard headed about this. this pain just sux
> _Posted via Mobile Device_ also sham: do you recommend any particular keylogger, i know i will have a few hours to myself on saturday with her laptop. *how would i get the info off the keylogger after its installed*?


There is one keylogger that i know of that you can install it on one computer and check it from another. So once you install it you never have to get on that computer again. The keylogger is called webwatcher. It is kind of pricey around 98 bucks (I think) You should be able to download a trial from their site. The trial lasts for 7 days, but the trial is rather limited in use..


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## ladybird

EHuntIMF said:


> Its funny because ever since I asked her "if there is anyone else?" the communication between the 2 has gone down dramatically. Is this a sign that its gone underground? Its only been 2 days (Saturday) but the amount of text and phone calls have decreased. Should I wait this and see if it picks back up or are there other options? What is going through her mind right now to choose him over the marriage?:scratchhead:



the communication between the two of them will most likely pick up again.. sooner rather then later.

You should not have said anything to her about you suspecting. Now she knows that you know something is going on.


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## EHuntIMF

It has already happened. They were on the phone today after I left for church. I came home to check on her because she was sick, but I noticed on the time stamp that they were on the phone 3 MINUTES after I left! of course the WAR didn't pick up anything all day, but the moment I move it, she's on the phone. I will be getting the 2 VAR this friday! I am putting together the whole packet of phone bills and still trying to get pics off of the cell. Is it possible to load a keylogger on a laptop, but under a different "User" I am a separate user on her laptop, but I am unsure if the keylogger would work unless I am under her user ID. Any suggestions comments?


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## Dadof3

If the account is an Admin account, should work for the whole computer. Check the instructions of the keylogger.


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## ladybird

EHuntIMF said:


> It has already happened. They were on the phone today after I left for church. I came home to check on her because she was sick, but I noticed on the time stamp that they were on the phone 3 MINUTES after I left! of course the WAR didn't pick up anything all day, but the moment I move it, she's on the phone. I will be getting the 2 VAR this friday! I am putting together the whole packet of phone bills and still trying to get pics off of the cell. Is it possible to load a keylogger on a laptop, but under a different "User" I am a separate user on her laptop, but I am unsure if the keylogger would work unless I am under her user ID. Any suggestions comments?


I am pretty sure that you will need to put the key logger on her account for it to work. also you will need to disable the anti virus software in order to install the keylogger.


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## EHuntIMF

Back to square 1! :banghead: Won't be able to get on the admin Id of the laptop, AND she changed the code on her phone again. DAMMIT! Just when I was making progress I run into stuff like this. Will keep pressing on and since this may have gone underground, I guess I will have to go into hyper mode, take care of myself, start the 180, and find ways back into the phone and/or laptop. Any suggestions? I plan on upgrading her phone next month, so that I can get text backup logs, but that would give the EA more time  She want's a new laptop and I could install a keylogger on there before I give it to her, however, I don't want to reward her behavior or should I to get the evidence I can see this will be a long road.


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## lordmayhem

There are resources on the interwebs about cracking or bypassing the admin password on her computer. If you can order a SIM card reader, do it, IF it has a SIM card. Otherwise, you will have to just guess the password. Usually its a birthday or something, maybe a combination of her birthday and his. That's what I found out about my fWWs password.


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## Shaggy

her password is likely his name or something.


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## Shaggy

since you know she will call him when you step out, use that against her and put that VAR in the right place tonight.

her changing her code is suspicious, sounds like she suspects you are on to them.


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## Almostrecovered

let your phone battery die and then ask her if you can use hers


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## aug

What type of phone is it?

If it's an iphone, then you can get to the texts and contact info via the backup of itunes.


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## warlock07

Are you computer savvy? Is she? If she is not ,I have ways to ruin her laptop subtly and you get to fix it  (Of course you need the admin password to fix it)


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## Dadof3

pray tell - I'm interested in this (I'm an IT manager) - so it's good to know about this stuff.


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## Shaggy

Just go in and change the password on the home wireless router. Then you'll need to have the admin pwd to her pc to find and fix the problem. In fact it might even need an updated " driver" installed to make it work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> Just go in and change the password on the home wireless router. Then you'll need to have the admin pwd to her pc to find and fix the problem. In fact it might even need an updated " driver" installed to make it work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Dadof3

Duh. of course! I knew that. Do it to the W all the time - but not for that reason!


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## EHuntIMF

Don't know about the wireless router option, but I did ask to use her laptop real quick. She said, "She would as soon as I finish this part (WOW Gamer) then she proceeded to finish her gamer, log off her account and log on to my user ID so that I can used the laptop) :-/ Any suggestions on how to monitor or what to look for when the EA has gone underground? It seems like the communication between the 2 have dropped off significantly since I said something last Saturday. Am I over analyzing this too much? They still text back and forth on the main line, just not as much as before. We are suppose to go to dinner tonight, but what behaviors am I suppose to watch for when the EA goes underground or if she is still having an EA?


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## Dadof3

see if u can get her to give you Admin access to the machine. you'll need it to do most admin type work - unless she has permissions set wide open, which then you won't have as difficult of a problem finding what you need outside of her account.


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## warlock07

EHuntIMF said:


> Don't know about the wireless router option, but I did ask to use her laptop real quick. She said, "She would as soon as I finish this part (WOW Gamer) then she proceeded to finish her gamer, log off her account and log on to my user ID so that I can used the laptop) :-/ Any suggestions on how to monitor or what to look for when the EA has gone underground? It seems like the communication between the 2 have dropped off significantly since I said something last Saturday. Am I over analyzing this too much? They still text back and forth on the main line, just not as much as before. We are suppose to go to dinner tonight, but what behaviors am I suppose to watch for when the EA goes underground or if she is still having an EA?



Flag!! Flag!! She knows that you know. You should rethink the strategy. Looks like she is well aware of tech stuff...

Have you ever used live cd's or usb's?


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## Eli-Zor

I think she has gone very deep underground and is getting advice either from OM or fellow waywards.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

ok - one other thing you could do - provided you have a laptop or some mechanism to plug a laptop hard drive into - you need admin privs to this machine.

you could sabotage the computer by opening the drive bay and pulling the hard disk out enough to cause an error on boot, yet not rattle around in the case.

then you have the excuse to "take it for repairs" - swap that drive out and do your own forensics on it "during repairs".


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## TRy

EHuntIMF said:


> Don't know about the wireless router option, but I did ask to use her laptop real quick. She said, "She would as soon as I finish this part (WOW Gamer) then she proceeded to finish her gamer, log off her account and log on to my user ID so that I can used the laptop) :-/ Any suggestions on how to monitor or what to look for when the EA has gone underground? It seems like the communication between the 2 have dropped off significantly since I said something last Saturday. Am I over analyzing this too much? They still text back and forth on the main line, just not as much as before. We are suppose to go to dinner tonight, but what behaviors am I suppose to watch for when the EA goes underground or if she is still having an EA?


Stop *****footing around. Tell her that you want complete access and transparency and let her know that it is a 2 way street and that you will give her the same. In light of all that has happened, this only makes sense. If she does not agree, then you know that you have a real problem and should act accordingly. 

After reading these forums I discussed such a rule with my wife. Since we were already doing this as an unwritten fact but not as an actual rule, she readily agreed. I did not suspect anything when I asked, and her easy yes only confirmed that there was nothing going on. Openness and transparency is a good thing for all marriages. I recommend that everyone do this before there is a problem since it is much easier to do.


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## CktBridge

If you need access to her accounts(as long as she has not used windows account encryption) using a Linux (Ubuntu is a popular one) live boot CD allows you to bypass all windows security. You can look at, copy to external hard drive or just about anything else without a trace left on the computer.

If you need an admin account password or just a temporary admin account created use UBCD for Windows
It only partially works for Windows 7 but if the laptop is older this is a good option.

You do need the BIOS on the computer set to boot from a CD/DVD before the hard drive also...

Good luck.


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## Deepdivered

hoping for an update
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EHuntIMF

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK

EHuntIMF said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Is that good or bad news?


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## Shaggy

EHuntIMF said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hunt - I can't help but think that no news isn't good news!


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## EHuntIMF

Sorry for the blank update yesterday. Phone wiped everything out before I had a chance to send. So here we are take 2: Really Really long

To give a quick update leading to today: I held off on confronting the wife about the phone calls on the phone records until I was able to get on her phone or laptop; both attempts were unsuccessfully. She went on a girls spa getaway 2 weekends ago and took her laptop and while she was there got a new phone. She was calling the guy at 3am during the days she was away. she even called the guy the night she came back when I was down stairs cooking and another time after we left her parents for christmas dinner and I went to bed early. I waited until after the holidays for 3 reasons, The PI I hired for a background check would not be available until after christmas didn't want to spoil the christmas get together with family and plus I am this week to give myself time to recover which brings us to Monday morning. 

I had to take an hour to calm myself and check the phone records one last time, when I noticed the last phone call. I calmly asked her about the specific phone number, and 
-she said "its just one of my guildees" (she plays World of Warcraft) 
I proceed to question her about the time she was calling,

ME- "at 3AM you two are talking?" 
wife-"well I just woke up in the middle of the night and we talked." 
ME- " Over several nights???" Really? What's going on?

The gates started to open and she proceeded to tell me his name and that he does like her. I press her and she reveals to me that "I do care for him" and " I feel sorry for the guy because he is lonely" I also asked about the nature of their phone convos and she admitted that some were sexually and that she didn't tell him that she was married (red flag?). I wanted to blow a gasket, but kept it together.

When I asked how long this has been going on, she states that it had gotten to this level in the past couple of months, but they had met online a few months prior to that (place in the august-sept. timeframe), but that he is TOTALLY separate from the problems we have been having (she gave me the ILYBNILWY speech on Oct 21st hmmmmm....)

She has stated that he is always available and gives her affection, (well considering the guy doesn't have a job and lives at home with his mom, I guess he does have more time than me: I'm going to school, and working). She stated that she loves me (typical right?) and doesn't want to lose me, but she was interested in the unknown factor with him. she said."He has offered on several occasion to come out to our state because he family that lives about an hour away, but she has told him no. to try and keep it on an online basis." I thought B.S. in my head, but let her run her mouth to see what else she would spew. She made statements that the online affair and gaming were like an addiction......which I agree....and she said "I know I'm probably going to have to go without a phone and laptop for awhile, which honestly is freaking me out a lot right now!" I didn't give any type of answer to avoid giving anything or making any decisions during this stressful time.

I asked " Do you even want to be married?" She said "I don't know right now to be honest" I responded, "well how about this.....if you honestly think this (OM's name) is better for you, I will personally fly him out here, pack up all this sh** in this house in a uhaul truck and you and him can go move to Minnesota and let me go!" She was stunned by that remark and said "Would you really let me go like that?" I said "Yes, because I will be fine without you." She was crying and saying she was a bad person who screwed up and I don't know how we'll get through this. I proceeded to go into the other bedroom and put on my clothes to go to the gym. I told her "you have some decisions to make, if you want to go, then say so, and we can get the paperwork started, but you can NOT have both me and him." I added, " You need to tell him everything and for you 2 to cut off ALL contact immediately if you plan on staying here." She climbed into bed and asked me "Do you hate me?" I said, "no, but I am angry and I do have the right to be angry!" She asked another question "Do you want to hurt me?" I responded " I will not put my hands on you no matter the offence" she then asked me to lay down with her and I said," I'm not ready." and got up and went to the gym. Called my mom for support and when I got to the gym, my wife had called. I ignored the phone call for about 10 minutes ( I know should have been longer) and called her back....she was crying and saying she needed me there and I kept it short without emotion and said, "I will be home when I am finished" (4 hours later I went home)

I get home around 5pm or so, and go into the room where she is laying down and grab my towel for the shower. Neither of us spoke to one another; I hop into the shower and she proceeds to get into the car (we only have the 1 car) and leaves to go to her parents house (she called them when I left for the gym) Her dad calls me up an hour later and ask if he can come up to talk (she a daddy's girl) I said "sure" and waited for him with the phone records printed.

FIL came to the house and we talked about the situation. She had told him about what she had done, but left off how serious things were, but I filled him in on the details when he asked. He didn't know how many times she was talking to the OM and that she had feelings for him. He wanted to help, but really couldn't identify that you can have feelings for someone you have never met (he's 71, so computers are a bit strange to him) Wife came home in the middle of our convo, and gave him a kiss and barely acknowledge me and went upstairs to the bedroom. The FIL and I finished our talk about an hour later and basically I just kept busy for the rest of the night. Wife must have been stressed because when I went to the car later that night, it smelled of cigarettes ( I don't smoke, but she used to) Sure enough there was a reciept from the gas station for some gum and cigarettes and it smelled like she had more than 1.

This is were I broke down and need some help: I was reading the site and others trying to mentally prepare myself for the 180, Plan A / Plan B, but I went upstairs to catch some sleep (its around 1:30am) and when I laid down she proceeded to roll towards me and say she was sorry for everything she caused. I replied," Babe, I'm hurting right now and you are too....I love you and I can't turn that off like a switch, but I'm going to need some time. She said "ok" and went back to sleep.

This morning (Tuesday) I got up and sat on the edge of the bed going through yesterday's events and honestly feeling like a damn fool. She asked me "what did I do now?" I said," nothing, just trying to deal with these insecurities." (D'oh) she asked me" Do you want to separate for awhile?" I said," I am not going to make any major decisions until I get though my feelings right now." She didn't respond but just got up got into the shower, came out got dressed and went to work. It almost seemed as if she couldn't wait to get out of the house and away from me. (should I worry?)

She also just called about 1 hour ago and sounded sad and said "I feel so alone right now", and she also stated " I just want all of this to be over....I just want my life to be over" I tried to calm her down, but I ended up saying that if you need to talk, I'm here for you.

What has been wrong in my responses? What do I do at this point? I don't want to see her hurting, but I also want her to at least appear to want to make things right with me. What's the timeline for healing and what steps do I need to take from this point on? Thanks for your help and patience with this....


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## aug

She has to go through her "hurting" so she can decide what she wants.

But she was living 2 separate lifes. And now both have come clashing together, and she'll have to decide what she wants.

As for you, you'll need to decide a fundamental question: do you want to stay with her or not? The question is simple enough, but the factors around it are many as you probably already know.


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## Eli-Zor

Take the phone and laptop away. Call his parents and tell them he is a predator and trying to break up your marriage. Your wife's head will only start to clear if they have permanent no contact . Whatever happens do not leave the house , if anyone goes she does. Lock your finances down, protect yourself it is rare for a wayward to suddenly stop and there is a strong likelyhood she will leave to go to him. If she does file.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan

EHuntIMF said:


> "Would you really let me go like that?" I said "Yes, because I will be fine without you."


This is PERFECT. Most WS think you can't live without them and this burst their bubbles.




> I said," I am not going to make any major decisions until I get though my feelings right now." She didn't respond but just got up got into the shower, came out got dressed and went to work. It almost seemed as if she couldn't wait to get out of the house and away from me. (should I worry?)


I wouldn't worry, she is most likely trying to give you space because she thinks that's what you want. She is afraid of doing/saying the wrong things around you so she is pulling back and seeing what you are going to do. 




> She also just called about 1 hour ago and sounded sad and said "I feel so alone right now", and she also stated " I just want all of this to be over....I just want my life to be over" I tried to calm her down, but I ended up saying that if you need to talk, I'm here for you.


Don't be too quick to reassure her, she needs to be afraid of losing you and stay at that state for a while. She needs to be motivated to convince you that she is worth keeping.



> What has been wrong in my responses? What do I do at this point? I don't want to see her hurting, but I also want her to at least appear to want to make things right with me. What's the timeline for healing and what steps do I need to take from this point on? Thanks for your help and patience with this....


You did most things right, just don't try to read into what she is doing because you will be wrong more times than not.

What she did was wrong and disrespectful, she needs to earn her way back to you and that means she is going to have to go through some pain, just like you are right now. Change doesn't happen overnight so let her stew for a while so it sinks in.

Stick with the 180 but understand its going to take months to resolve and just like her feelings will change, so will yours.


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## Shaggy

Here's the plan that seems to work the best: 

1. Don't try to make her feel better or minimize the hurt she has inflicted.

2. Do tell her your requirements: She ends it completely and forever with OM now. Now in a few days, not after she has time to think about her...NOW. If not now then you WILL file.

#2 is not a threat. It is you saying she must respect you enough to choose the marriage, or you will take the only action that is left and that is to finish ending the marriage she has already left.

It sounds like she is wanting to keep the OM relationship alive,and she wants you to accept it and to give her time to continue in her affair. - Do not accept this. It only enables the affair, this time with your blessing.

3. She will give you full and complete access to the laptop and phone. Now, and each time you ask to see it.


The 180 is about you detaching from the situation and building yourself as an independent health person. It is the right thing here.

But part of dealing with the affair, is to tell her your non-negotiable terms, and then act if she will not accept them. Like any contract, if the other side won't follow the rule, you end the contract. 

When a thief breaks in and steal your things, you don't wait at home for him to return the stolen goods. Nope! You call the cops, you file a report,you lock the doors, and you find replacements for what he stole.


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## Dadof3

One: Kudos on how you handled the heart-to-heart. 

Two: A few more things - No more WOW for her either, not ever, and, if she wants "separation" - its to "experiment" with the other relationship - not end it. 

This is why Divorce is paramount unless she is willing to do the heavy lifting, go no contact, etc. Do not tolerate a separation, unless you do in fact file for divorce - then don't turn back. You deserve better.


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## EHuntIMF

Shaggy said:


> Here's the plan that seems to work the best:
> 
> 1. Don't try to make her feel better or minimize the hurt she has inflicted.
> 
> 2. Do tell her your requirements: She ends it completely and forever with OM now. Now in a few days, not after she has time to think about her...NOW. If not now then you WILL file.
> 
> #2 is not a threat. It is you saying she must respect you enough to choose the marriage, or you will take the only action that is left and that is to finish ending the marriage she has already left.
> 
> It sounds like she is wanting to keep the OM relationship alive,and she wants you to accept it and to give her time to continue in her affair. - Do not accept this. It only enables the affair, this time with your blessing.
> 
> 3. She will give you full and complete access to the laptop and phone. Now, and each time you ask to see it.
> 
> 
> The 180 is about you detaching from the situation and building yourself as an independent health person. It is the right thing here.
> 
> But part of dealing with the affair, is to tell her your non-negotiable terms, and then act if she will not accept them. Like any contract, if the other side won't follow the rule, you end the contract.
> 
> When a thief breaks in and steal your things, you don't wait at home for him to return the stolen goods. Nope! You call the cops, you file a report,you lock the doors, and you find replacements for what he stole.


ok, so i am trying to do the 180. should i tell her how i feel when she ask? the reason for the question is that today she called me from work....she asked"how are you feeling?" i said,"not well, i am dealing with my feelings, i don`t feel secure, and i don`t feel so hot. i am heading to the gym." she sounded really depressed and said"well i`m sorry for calling you, i will see you when you pick me up." was that the right response or did i blow the 180?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Be careful of how you apply the 180, if she is recommitting to the marriage, prepare to go NC on this guy then you flex the 180 for your requirements. Run incorrectly the 180 can force a breakup in your marriage.

Stating your feelings at this stage is not a problem, use this time to work on yourself and improve yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

I'm getting confused - is OM out of the picture or not?


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## EHuntIMF

Shaggy said:


> I'm getting confused - is OM out of the picture or not?


Shaggy- The OM is out of the picture currently, but I am still monitoring the situation as best as I can. I would be a fool to believe that someone can just "turn-off" their feelings for someone overnight and I have made my requirements clear. You can not have both me and him.....If you choose him, then I will help you pack!

Quick update from last night and this morning. I picked her up from work and she sounded sad when she called earlier checking to see what time I was going to pick her up. I kept the conversation short and didn't say I Love you at the end like I usually do. (good? Bad?) When I picked her up, we began with small talk "how was work, your day? etc...) She proceeds to grab my hand and proceed to hold it (first time she has initiated in a few months), I continue to drive and after a few minutes she says to me " We're never going to be comfortable with each other again, are we?" I responded "We can, but it will take some time and work, babe." She then proceeds to pull her hands back, closing herself off to me, and crying. This goes on until we reach the house. Once we reach the house, she continues crying and as I move toward her she screams, "LEAVE ME ALONE, I Just want to die!" I tell her "You don't want to die and we can get through this." She keeps saying afterwards "I am a horrible person and I don't deserve your love or presence." (I agree in my mind) This goes on for about an hour and then she finally get tired and goes to bed. 

This morning, she gets up, takes and shower and get dressed. She doesn't say anything to me, but "I'm heading to work now" and takes off. I smile at her and say "Have a good day at work" but no response. 

Is this normal? Was my reaction too much?:scratchhead:


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## Eli-Zor

I read in some parts your wife regretting the affair, I don't see her doing much of anything to work on the marriage. I read a lot of me me me and the impact it has on her.

Do you have the book "his needs her needs" by Harley if so ask her to read it as it will give both of you pointers on what to do to take you forward. 

Stay consistent , she can't help see your good side and will hate her affair even more. Stay strong she will see you for person you are and if she can adhere to a recovery plan your marriage will recover.


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## Eli-Zor

Your responses to her were on target and supportive.


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## warlock07

Did she call him and tell him that she was married in front of you? I remember you telling that she technically adept. There are hundreds of ways she could still call and talk to him.



> "LEAVE ME ALONE, I Just want to die!" I tell her "You don't want to die and we can get through this."


Nope, she doesn't. You reacted exactly how she wanted to


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## KanDo

EHuntIMF said:


> ....she says to me " We're never going to be comfortable with each other again, are we?" I responded "We can, but it will take some time and work, babe." She then proceeds to pull her hands back, closing herself off to me, and crying. ... she continues crying and as I move toward her she screams, "LEAVE ME ALONE, I Just want to die!" I tell her "You don't want to die and we can get through this." She keeps saying afterwards "I am a horrible person and I don't deserve your love or presence." (I agree in my mind) This goes on for about an hour and then she finally get tired and goes to bed.
> 
> *WOW! This is almost verbatim what happened to me last night. Followed by an email about how much she truly loves me (NOT). I have learned that the most recent OM dumped her and she is feeling sorry for herself.
> 
> I think your conversation went well. Good luck.*


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## EHuntIMF

ok folks another quick update and a vent session:

Wife came to bed last night and was crying. I tried to ignore it, but finally got frustrated and turned to her and said, " I want to work this out, but I am not going to chase you and you have to come to me." She said," I will be ok, I just need time and then I'll fall asleep." :scratchhead: 

So anyway, I let that go and went to sleep. This morning, same thing like other mornings, didn't really say anything to each other and she left to go to work. I noticed when I tried to log in to the phone records, it told me that the account was locked due to several attempts. (I had changed the password when I confronted her about the calls) I think it was her attempt to log on to the phone records, so I have a couple of questions:

1) Why would she bother to check the records now?
2) IS she going to try and get me to reveal the new password and do I have to?
3) What is going on with us? ( I want the affection back and am trying to get pass this, but she is cold right now) 
4) She keeps saying she doesn't deserve my love, but is not making any effort to come to me and see what can be done to fix this....what do I do?

Vent: What is really burning me up about this whole thing is, that basically has phone sex and sending sexually pics to another guy in another state that she says she "care for him", but I have been trying for months and years to initiate something like that. naughty pics between us or dirty phone convos, but was constantly shut down! I could even understand if I wasn't willing and able to participate in something like that, but I totally tried to do that and keep the spice in the marriage, but she shuts me down and does that with another GUY!?!?! this is so B.S......just pissed right now!


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## EHuntIMF

Another quick question: What are the stages and/or scripts that LS and WS go through? I'm trying to nail down where I am and where she is at right now and will be later down the road.


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## TRy

EHuntIMF said:


> Wife came to bed last night and was crying. I tried to ignore it, but finally got frustrated and turned to her and said, " I want to work this out, but I am not going to chase you and you have to come to me." She said," I will be ok, I just need time and then I'll fall asleep." :scratchhead:


Your wife was just checking to make sure that it was still all about her and what she wanted and that she was in complete control. Once you reconfirmed this by telling her that you "want to work this out" she could go to sleep with the knowledge that she was. The qualifier part of your statment that she had "to come to" means nothing since that is something that she has the power to easily do anytime that she so decides. Her saying that she will be OK without you, was her spitting in your face.

Not a good way to earn her respect. Sorry but you will not get her back doing this. A woman cannot be in love with someone that she does not respect.


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## ArmyofJuan

Sounds like she is still in fog mode.

I'm betting she is mourning losing the OM and is trying to make it look like she is remorseful for what she has done.

Back when my FWW came back the first time, she heard that a month later the OM was a mess and was crying all the time and "claimed" it was because my W left him. We found out several months later that at that same time his W had served him D papers but he kept it a secret. He didn't want anyone to think his wife would divorce him or have an effect on him.

If she really believed what she was telling you she would be bending over backwards to make you happy. Her actions are betraying her.

She needs to do the work, not you. The more you do, the less she'll do. I get the impression she in not over the OM and is lying to pacify you.


ETA: I believe TRy is right, she is wanting to maintain control over you. She wants you to feel sorry for her so she doesn't have to do anything. Looks like you are being played.


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## EHuntIMF

Damn! I was hoping I was helping this move along, but apparently I'm just being dumb. The Father In Law called me today, and he said the weirdest thing....He said "Do you think that you writing her a love note or letter would help her out of this?" Red Flags went up! I know its his daughter and all, but I already filled him in on all the things she did, so why should I help her fell better?


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## EHuntIMF

ArmyofJuan said:


> Sounds like she is still in fog mode.
> 
> I'm betting she is mourning losing the OM and is trying to make it look like she is remorseful for what she has done.
> 
> Back when my FWW came back the first time, she heard that a month later the OM was a mess and was crying all the time and "claimed" it was because my W left him. We found out several months later that at that same time his W had served him D papers but he kept it a secret. He didn't want anyone to think his wife would divorce him or have an effect on him.
> 
> If she really believed what she was telling you she would be bending over backwards to make you happy. Her actions are betraying her.
> 
> She needs to do the work, not you. The more you do, the less she'll do. I get the impression she in not over the OM and is lying to pacify you.
> 
> 
> ETA: I believe TRy is right, she is wanting to maintain control over you. She wants you to feel sorry for her so she doesn't have to do anything. Looks like you are being played.


So should I just sit back and wait for her to come to me? I don't want to be an A--hole during this whole thing (Its day 4 since DDay), but I don't want to be disrespected anymore either.


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## EHuntIMF

Another thing: My aunt died on Thursday morning and I've been trying to dealing with that issue as well. I haven't told the wife about it...I can't deal with trying to figure her out and trying to grieve at the same time. Too much at one time....I guess that may be part of the reason I've been so easily played by my wife


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## TashaB

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EHuntIMF

EHuntIMF said:


> Another thing: My aunt died on Thursday morning and I've been trying to dealing with that issue as well. I haven't told the wife about it...I can't deal with trying to figure her out and trying to grieve at the same time. Too much at one time....I guess that may be part of the reason I've been so easily played by my wife


wife came up today and give me a hug and kiss. no apology or talks about status of relationship.....is this another ploy to play me? should i stick with 180?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

just take it and dont read anything into it. Maintain the 180. Remember, its not to manipulate her, its to make you the best you can offer.


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## lordmayhem

EHuntIMF said:


> wife came up today and give me a hug and kiss. no apology or talks about status of relationship.....is this another ploy to play me? should i stick with 180?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, I just had to catch up on what was going on. Yes, she has been manipulating you and you're playing right into it. You are in the bargaining stage. There should be no bargaining at this point. Your confrontation went well, but after that, you've been bargaining and she's been manipulating you, and its working. Notice she said "What did I do now?". This indicates that she is going to want to rug sweep this real quick.

As for the OM, you said it's over. Ok. But at this point in time, if she wants to stay in the house, its your way or its the highway. There are things that should be non negotiable. I still haven't read anywhere about a NC letter being sent. These are the things that should be non negotiable:


NC Letter - How this is accomplished will be up to you. She hand writes a NC letter to him via certified mail. Or you if you are more comfortable, have her send the NC letter to him while you are standing there watching. Naturally she can break NC, but writing the NC letter establishes a boundary that she should not ever cross.
Complete and Immediate Transparency - She should WILLINGLY hand over any and all passwords to any email, financial, social networking, online accounts, computer passwords, and phone passwords. If she isn't willing to be transparent, then she needs to leave.
Physically accountable - this means being accountable for her time. If she goes to work, then she needs to tell you when she's coming home and let you know if she'll be late. No GNOs any longer. If she goes out, then you go with her.

DO NOT let her manipulate you with this "woe is me" crap. She seems perfectly capable of disrespecting you. She needs to stop this crap about running to Daddy all the time. You can bet your ass she is demonzing you to him. He shouldn't be involved in this at all at this point. He asks you to write her a love poem? WTF? 

And I have to say this again: Do not bargain with her and do not let her sweep this under the rug. You have not let her know that D is squarely on the table, which explains her behavior. What she wants to do is manipulate you into feeling sorry for her, while she sweeps this under the rug and waits for the dust to settle down. 

Once you let her know that you will not be manipulated and D is on the table, then you should be getting the full court press from her to save the marriage. That's why she's been so ambivalent towards you. She should be falling all over herself trying to save the marriage.

There is absolutely no remorse from her at all. None. She feels guilt at only being caught. Being remorseful means being concerned for YOUR feelings. Right now its all about her and this "woe is me" crap.


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## Dadof3

lordmayhem said:


> Ok, I just had to catch up on what was going on. Yes, she has been manipulating you and you're playing right into it. You are in the bargaining stage. There should be no bargaining at this point. Your confrontation went well, but after that, you've been bargaining and she's been manipulating you, and its working. Notice she said "What did I do now?". This indicates that she is going to want to rug sweep this real quick.
> 
> As for the OM, you said it's over. Ok. But at this point in time, if she wants to stay in the house, its your way or its the highway. There are things that should be non negotiable. I still haven't read anywhere about a NC letter being sent. These are the things that should be non negotiable:
> 
> 
> NC Letter - How this is accomplished will be up to you. She hand writes a NC letter to him via certified mail. Or you if you are more comfortable, have her send the NC letter to him while you are standing there watching. Naturally she can break NC, but writing the NC letter establishes a boundary that she should not ever cross.
> Complete and Immediate Transparency - She should WILLINGLY hand over any and all passwords to any email, financial, social networking, online accounts, computer passwords, and phone passwords. If she isn't willing to be transparent, then she needs to leave.
> Physically accountable - this means being accountable for her time. If she goes to work, then she needs to tell you when she's coming home and let you know if she'll be late. No GNOs any longer. If she goes out, then you go with her.
> 
> DO NOT let her manipulate you with this "woe is me" crap. She seems perfectly capable of disrespecting you. She needs to stop this crap about running to Daddy all the time. You can bet your ass she is demonzing you to him. He shouldn't be involved in this at all at this point. He asks you to write her a love poem? WTF?
> 
> And I have to say this again: Do not bargain with her and do not let her sweep this under the rug. You have not let her know that D is squarely on the table, which explains her behavior. What she wants to do is manipulate you into feeling sorry for her, while she sweeps this under the rug and waits for the dust to settle down.
> 
> Once you let her know that you will not be manipulated and D is on the table, then you should be getting the full court press from her to save the marriage. That's why she's been so ambivalent towards you. She should be falling all over herself trying to save the marriage.
> 
> There is absolutely no remorse from her at all. None. She feels guilt at only being caught. Being remorseful means being concerned for YOUR feelings. Right now its all about her and this "woe is me" crap.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Initfortheduration

Stick with the 180. She needs to start focusing on what a great husband you are, instead of what a skank she is. I think filing for divorce would also wake her up. I think you can now see, that begging, pleading and following her around, only makes her contemptuous of you. She is thinking about the 50 cent piece she lost and is forgetting about the golden treasure she has in you. Take away the treasure, and the fog will clear as to what she really values. If she does come begging and pleading, tell her you are freeing her to make her own decision. Right now she is having a pity party, because she can't eat her cake and have it too. Its time to give her a glimpse of what losing everything looks like.


----------



## EHuntIMF

Well....things have become "interesting". I have been seeing a therapist (individual) about all this and basically just trying to get my anger and emotions in perspective. The session went well, and the therapist encouraged me to start living my life for me and not be concerned about her meeting any of my needs. He also said to try and talk about the situation with the wife (without being demeaning) and she what her reasons for the affair were. 

So I take the advice and go to work (yesterday). My wife calls me up and ask me if "we are doing anything for our anniversary?" I said, "The original plan was to celebrate it next weekend due to money and our schedule, but this current situation places everything in limbo. Honestly, I am just not in a celebrating mood." She said is wasn't expecting anything and she understood because it would just be awkward and neither of us would probably have a good time. 

I said to her, "Let talk about everything tonight and put our cards on the table." She said, that she's still trying to come to grips with everything she has done to me and she has just gotten to a place where she is not crying everyday over it. "I am not ready to talk about it honestly and I need more time. I do want to be with you, but I need time to figure out the issues within myself." 

So am I suppose to wait around until she gets "ready" to talk about it? What the hell is going through her head? Our anniversary is today, and I didn't get her anything and not planning on doing anything for us. I start school again in a couple of weeks and things will be crazy as far as schedules go. Am I wrong for not celebrating the anniversary? (9 years) What are my next steps I should follow?


----------



## calif_hope

How about a card, blank...write something like:


My gift to you is a wiliness to work to make it to 10 years and to work to a point where we renew our marriage - a start over, a new and fresh year 1. 

And, I am open to growing old with you in a renewed relationship with new expectations; I see this as a second gift that I am giving you today.

We are both going to have to work hard, you are going to have to work even harder; we need work in a way that gets us to the same point, the same goal, victory for both of us. 

Every day, every minute, every second we delay talking about us and what happed, what you did, develop a plan to fix us, adds to the scar tissue. Soon, very soon that scar tissue is going to be so deep and so tough that nothing that you are willing to do or that I am willing to do will puncture it, the heart of us will no longer be accessible and we go our separate ways. Simply, limbo destroys. 

If you are not able to accept my gifts, then let’s work on separating our lives in a manner that we don't end up despising each other. 

This is not what I want but I cannot fight our dragons alone and if we are not to be, I don't want the scars of a solitary fight ruin my chances of future happiness. 

I do love you.... 


SOOORRY, GOT ON A ROLL....just an idea what you might give her.


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## Beowulf

calif_hope said:


> How about a card, blank...write something like:
> 
> 
> My gift to you is a wiliness to work to make it to 10 years and to work to a point where we renew our marriage - a start over, a new and fresh year 1.
> 
> And, I am open to growing old with you in a renewed relationship with new expectations; I see this as a second gift that I am giving you today.
> 
> We are both going to have to work hard, you are going to have to work even harder; we need work in a way that gets us to the same point, the same goal, victory for both of us.
> 
> Every day, every minute, every second we delay talking about us and what happed, what you did, develop a plan to fix us, adds to the scar tissue. Soon, very soon that scar tissue is going to be so deep and so tough that nothing that you are willing to do or that I am willing to do will puncture it, the heart of us will no longer be accessible and we go our separate ways. Simply, limbo destroys.
> 
> If you are not able to accept my gifts, then let’s work on separating our lives in a manner that we don't end up despising each other.
> 
> This is not what I want but I cannot fight our dragons alone and if we are not to be, I don't want the scars of a solitary fight ruin my chances of future happiness.
> 
> I do love you....
> 
> 
> SOOORRY, GOT ON A ROLL....just an idea what you might give her.


Wow, that's good. I was going to say to tell her that you will celebrate the 1st year anniversary of the NEW marriage in 2013 but I like your idea better.


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## Powerbane

On the lighter side pick up some Lego's and label them with the qualities you want for the new marriage. 

Give them to her and say hey - lets build the new marriage - since the other one was not constructed properly with enough safety devices and extra strong foundations to stand up to the devastation of the affair. 

Don't laugh! I'm being serious here! 

Get one of those Lego kits that actually let you build a structure. Everytime you both sit down , each get 10 pieces but before you put them together you must describe what the piece is and how it will help make the new marriage strong. 

Good luck brother!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dymo

Is it possible she's back in contact with OM?


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## Chaparral

Have you gotten passwords to phone records again?


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## akira1

Well, if you're not planning anything big for the anniv. (which is fine given your case), I suggest you still acknowledge the date somehow... a card is acceptable.


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## tacoma

EHuntIMF said:


> So am I suppose to wait around until she gets "ready" to talk about it?


No, she discusses this now on your timeline or she can go.
She`s manipulating you and you`re allowing it.
This is why I`m always an advocate for the "nuclear" solution, it seems to let them know they have no power and better get in line.



> What the hell is going through her head? Our anniversary is today, and I didn't get her anything and not planning on doing anything for us. I start school again in a couple of weeks and things will be crazy as far as schedules go. Am I wrong for not celebrating the anniversary? (9 years) What are my next steps I should follow?


Personally I`d start wondering if she's gone underground.


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## tacoma

Has there been an NC letter?
Transparency? Phone/Computer/passwords?

Has this been done?


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## lordmayhem

tacoma said:


> Has there been an NC letter?
> Transparency? Phone/Computer/passwords?
> 
> Has this been done?


I haven't seen anywhere in this thread that this has been done yet. And I agree, that this has possibly gone underground, hence her stalling for time and seemingly still in the fog.

Mr Hunt, you're not wrong for not celebrating the anniversary of the old marriage - its dead. If you R, it will be a new marriage. But I don't see in her actions that she's in any way shape or form, deserving of the precious gift of R. She still needs time to figure out her issues? That sounds suspiciously like "I need to find myself", which is usually wayward speak for "I'm having an affair". What has your investigation turned up recently?


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## EHuntIMF

Have the phone records and logs, and no activity has taken place between the two. A NC has been sent followed by a phone call on speaker where I was present. I have told her that if 1 text is communicated (no matter the sender) and I am not informed, "I AM GONE!" She was accepting of that option and I also install a keylogger, but it hasn't turned up anything.......I'm still looking though. 

She has been avoiding people like the plague though. She no longer wants to go to church or even see her parents. She says she feel shame and guilt about disappointing everyone. I am just moving on for me.....My classes are scheduled, I went to the gun range and gym the other weekend and I am going to salsa dancing this Saturday with or without her. I can't do anything for her and since she said she isn't comfortable talking about it right now, I have an appointment with my lawyer next Thursday. I haven't told her about it, just trying to keep my cards close to my chest and see what my options are. We don't have any kids, so everything should be pretty cut and dry. 

Question: Would it be wrong of me to want to have sex with my wife? Not anything lovey-dovey just raw primal take-what-I-want and roll over and go to sleep type sex. i guess angry sex would be the likely title. Is this normal?


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## Eli-Zor

If you have sex you should at least make it pleasurable for both of you, neither of you wants to feel used afterwards.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Eli-Zor said:


> If you have sex you should at least make it pleasurable for both of you, neither of you wants to feel used afterwards.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Especially if you want to keep her. Its the best way to bond.


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## EHuntIMF

Damn IT! I was hoping for an answer that would agree with me. Oh Well...I am not in a place where I really care about her or what she wants at this point, so I'll just redirect this energy somewhere else. What do I do if she starts to approach me about sex? or wanting some type of affection? I'm not really comfortable giving myself to her completely....I just give her a hug (side arm) to get her away from me, but a part of me do misses the closeness. This EA thing has really messed with my thinking and even wanting to connect with her anymore.


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## Dadof3

Maybe you need to explain that if there is physical intimacy, it doesn't sweep aside what she has done, and pursue it that way, as a way to re-bond. 

Hysterical bonding is VERY awesome, but I understand where you are coming from!


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## Chaparral

Saw this in another thread:

"Hysterical Bonding – Upon being confronted with the undeniable reality that their most trusted spouse has betrayed them with another, some BS's experience an overwhelming sexual desire for their wayward spouse. Many couples claim to have had the best, most intense and loving sex of their relationship during the period following the discovery of an affair, (generally a few weeks to several months), often trying new things and experimenting in ways they had never considered before. This phenomenon is termed "Hysterical Bonding. 

There is very little information on this phenomenon, but it appears to be a primal, instinctual way for the partners to reconnect and reclaim each other. While it may feel counter-intuitive to the BS; as if they are "rewarding" the WS for the affair, hysterical bonding can be a stepping stone to reconciliation. The intimacy encourages communication and a closeness that may otherwise take some time to re-build. 

The occurrence or absence of hysterical bonding does not appear to be an indicator of successful reconciliation. Many other factors, such as the WS's remorse and openness are far more reliable indicators. Hysterical bonding is, however, normal, and nothing for the BS to be alarmed about or ashamed about experiencing. In fact, it has been said it is the one positive in an otherwise long and miserable experience, so enjoy it while it lasts!”

Good luck


----------



## lostlindsey

i know that feeling. that stuck feeling. i have 4 boys under 10 who love their daddy. he hurt me with an EA and i couldn't do anything about it. but he hasn't repeated his offense so hopefully things will eventually feel normal again. if not i'm screwed


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## EHuntIMF

okay....wife went to the hair dressers and i guess she is feeling good. i am still stuck in this limbo feeling....should i try being nice or just withdrawn from her? i don`t want to reward her with kindness when she has done this to me. i want her to at least act like she is trying to make this better, but it seems to me that she is trying to act if everything is hunky dorey between us! it is making me irritated. is the absence of HB normal or just dependant on the couple? i do want to have some primal angry sex, but i am not feeling real sympathic to her right now... ugh why do these emotions swing back and forth like this? what do i do about her apparent rug sweeping attempt or am i just going crazy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

A lot of this is probably the wayward spouse haveing no clue as to what they actually need to do. Have you or a counselor given her any idea what is expected?


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## EHuntIMF

She has stated her mother has told her what to do, but when I try to talk to her about this issue she says she is not ready. Today was a better day emotionally, but we still have the issues to work out. :-(


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## EHuntIMF

Well, I have been sick the past couple of days and Wife seems to be nicer and wants to take care of me. Is it wrong to be skeptical of their motives? How long does it take to trust again? How long should I wait before I can relax around her again?


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## lostlindsey

Going on 4 months here and he's been an angel everyday and I still don't but I still hope to. It's not wrong to be skeptical. Just remember to also consider it could be genuine. That's what I've been encouraged by others to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

Sounds like some heavy lifting to me.


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## EHuntIMF

Well, Here we go again. I tried to put the voices out of my head that something was off and that the EA went underground. <Precede with the I told you so's and slapping some sense into my head> 

Basically, DDay was 12-26-11, I told her,"If he is really better than me, then you can go....I will pack up all of your sh*t in this house, put it on a U-haul truck, and you two can live a happy life!" Waterworks ensued for about 2 weeks, Heavy lifting was incremental, but nothing to write home about. The phone records "showed" no contact, but just had a feeling things weren't adding up. Broke into the phone this morning, but her text messages had a lock on it (red flag #3, number 1 was were I tried to get us to talk about the situation and counseling, she said "I'm not ready" (Jan 4th, 2012)

Well, I tried her email (via the phone) and she was talking to the guy via email and IM at LEAST since Feb. 11th (that was the earliest email, but the convo was not a fishing one, so they must have had contact before), my hands were shaking, but i HAD TO HOLD IT together and forwarded the emails to my work email. I tried to cover my tracks but didn't do a good job. She came downstairs looking sad, and absolutely no affection. We didn't speak the entire car ride to work (car pool) and when I said "Have a good day" she mumbled, "you too, but again , no goodbye kiss"

Here is the email message she sent to him this morning at midnight "I hope tonight I dream of licking things that are not cheese" There was also an IM exchange they had done, where me and the W went out to a sushi restaurant (her first time) and she described our date night to him as if she went out with her girlfriends and not me!

i am open to suggestion, but honestly I am not leaving the house and I don't know if I want to stay in the marriage after this blatant disrespect, after I told her NO CONTACT AT ALL! You can have me or him, but not both. We have only 1 car, so we carpool, but I am having a car delivered to my house sometime early next week. We haven't spoke about it, because I had issues at job and school I had to take care of first and need to focus on them.

What do I do at this point? *letting down hands to receive slapping of sense*


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## EHuntIMF

background in case you need a refresher

DDay 12-26-11
NC rule: 12-26-11
Married: 9 years January
no kids (1 dog)
Dday 2 (false R) 03-05-12


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## SadSamIAm

No Kids = Leave


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## bandit.45

Kick her to curb and call the lawyer. Never speak a word to her again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unsure in Seattle

Brother, brother, brother.

I think that, in your heart, you know what you have to do.

You established a firm boundary. If you let it go, she will never respect you.

There have to be consequences to breaking the NC.


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## GTdad

SadSamIAm said:


> No Kids = Leave


This. Maybe either Wyoming or the Smokey Mountains. Whichever is farther away from her.


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## Complexity

It's a no brainer OP


----------



## Lon

SadSamIAm said:


> No Kids = Leave


yes... easy choice. (atleast coming from a divorcee that is forever stuck coparenting my son with his cheater of a mother).

If you like your house then stay and kick her out. Keep the dog too if you love it. If she wants to stay or take the dog then sic a laywer on her.


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## EHuntIMF

So should i yell at her and throw the emails at her? I was only able to get 3 emails, but i saw many more. Should just calmly tell her about it and not let her see me care?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

You don't need to say anything. Print them out and lay them on top of the suitcases sitting outside the front door that you packed for her. Have the locks changed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EHuntIMF

We are not home yet. We carpool to work and I have to pick her up soon. Do I do it then or wait till I get home? I still have to remember that I have to work tomorrow and we only have one car. (It's hers)


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## Beowulf

EHuntIMF said:


> We are not home yet. We carpool to work and I have to pick her up soon. Do I do it then or wait till I get home? I still have to remember that I have to work tomorrow and we only have one car. (It's hers)


Can't you take a taxi? Call a coworker and pay them to pick you up until you get a car? Rent a car until you buy one? I wouldn't say a word. I would go home, start packing her things in a suitcase, put them in her car and say "have a nice life."


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## bandit.45

I would do it when you get home. First thing. I would just show her the evidence and tell her you cannot remain married to a liar. Sounds like you will have to continue living together for the time being and have an in-house separation. These suck. Start looking on Craigslist for apartment shares near your work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60

EHuntIMF said:


> So should i yell at her and throw the emails at her? I was only able to get 3 emails, but i saw many more. Should just calmly tell her about it and not let her see me care?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You gave her a choice - OM or husband. She has chosen OM.

Don't tip your hand now. You said you are getting a car soon. Stay calm until you have protected yourself. Then download a Do-it-yourself Divorce kit and fill in your part then hand it to her along with the emails and tell her to fill in her portion.

Or if you are completely, definitely done with her - get a lawyer and have her served.

Good luck, It's time to move on. You have wasted too much time with someone who has no respect for you already.


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## Chaparral

I think the first thing you do is ask her to borrow her phone. Then pull up the texts and start reading them out loud to her. Ask her what she thinks she would do if she were you. If she won't let you see it (I would take it away from her but that's just me) read her the texts you have and ask her what she thinks. Then tell her you see no point to this marriage. Go have a wonderful life with a fantasy.


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## EHuntIMF

That might be the best option right now. She was lovey dovey after work and i didn't bring it up, so either she knowsabout me going through her phone and trying to gauge where i am at or she doesn't know and is starting to get sloppy thinking she got over. I will wait until the care get here on saturday and see if she has change the code on her phone tomorrow, but i will be throwing her out once the car gets here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Stay frosty and don't let on. Bang her a few times for good measure.


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## warlock07

Any reason that you think it has not gone physical already? She did say that his family stays nearby.


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## Shaggy

Oh, and call and cancel her phoe service if you can.

She has played you, lied to your face, and chose the OM. I would boot her out, expose the affair, and go dark on her for at east two weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

I changed my mind. Wait until you get the car before you lower the boom. Sweeten her up, make her feel good. Have as much sex with her as she'll give you. 

Treat her like the sl*t she is... then dump her. 

I'm not feeling particulalry chivalrous tonight. Hope it doesn't show.


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## warlock07

Bandit , maybe you need to take a break from these forums. Your answers are much bitter these days..


EHuntIMF What if she cries and begs again? Any indication that they might have met one another?


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## dymo

File for divorce and begin moving on. Get back on the 180.

You can stop divorce proceedings at any time, but treat any of her resulting pleas with a degree of scepticism. You've been fooled before.

Also, expose. OM might not have a girlfriend, but presumably he has friends or family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Sorry that she never went NC with OM and merely went underground, resulting in this False R. She obviously still wants to cake eat until such time OM can be with her permanently, or at least thats what she's hoping for.

NC means NC means NC. There is no middle ground. 



EHuntIMF said:


> Have the phone records and logs, and no activity has taken place between the two. A NC has been sent followed by a phone call on speaker where I was present. I have told her that if 1 text is communicated (no matter the sender) and I am not informed, "I AM GONE!" She was accepting of that option and I also install a keylogger, but it hasn't turned up anything.......I'm still looking though.


You set the boundary and she agreed to them. Now you have to enforce it.



EHuntIMF said:


> okay....wife went to the hair dressers and i guess she is feeling good. i am still stuck in this limbo feeling....


This is your gut screaming at you that something is still going on.



EHuntIMF said:


> She has stated her mother has told her what to do, but when I try to talk to her about this issue she says she is not ready. Today was a better day emotionally, but we still have the issues to work out. :-(


This indicates that she’s not over him and that she is still in contact.


----------



## EHuntIMF

We spoke for about 3 hrs... I asked her about the OM (Just trying to confirm what I already know) She says she thinks about him (no sh*t, you just messaged him this morning) and basically she said, that "I've always done things according to other people desires, and he was another path that I wondered what it would be like. I still struggle with that and how my life is going with the decisions I have made." 

I asked her plainly, "Do you want me?" her response was "I don't know" I asked another question "Do you want him?" She hesitated, and then replied "I don't know either, but he was another path to take, and I still wonder if I made the right decision about staying." -----WTF?

So at this point it was a bunch of babble to me about her self pity and how she doesn't know how to fix us and she still can't get past some days how she broke us. At this point, she basically told me she loves me, but doesn't want me or the marriage and wants to see what life would be like if she "followed her feelings" I am emotionally drained and I didn't bust her with the emails (yet). I am waiting for the 2nd car to get here this week, in the mean time try to get more emails and then basically just expose all over again, kick her out, and file. 

She stated that she doesn't know if what she is feeling is normal because I was her only real relationship, so I just wrote it off as more fog babble, and just resigned myself that I will have to move on. It hurts, I am on my way to the gym (put on some weight while trying to go to school and work) and just basically making myself a better man. I am re-reading NMMNG and Married Life, but basically I am just done with her.


----------



## bandit.45

Your wife is so deep in the fog its not even funny. She does not know up from down. When she starts babbling you should just get up and leave the room. Why you would sit and talk to an insane person for three hours is baffling to me. 

Get the car and kick her out. Do the 180 hard and quit engaging with her. Quit hoping for clarity from her because you won't get it.


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## warlock07

She knows that you know and is coming up with some justification so that it won't blow up in her face when you confront her.


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## happyman64

Ehunt,
Change the order you are doing things.
See your attorney and file.
Get your car in the driveway.
Confront your wife, give her the evidence then tell her to leave.

You have been plenty patient. She is going to continue to lie to you.

Save yourself now. Let your WW see what life is like without you.

Go hard 180. Go totally dark.

Since her dad spoke to you last time, after she leaves give him an update so he knows te truth.

Good Luck Buddy.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gpa

I'm not able to understand why y have to expose her with the emails.
She clearly told y that OM is still in her life and feelings whereas at the same time y r a big question mark for her.
I really think that that she has to face the absolute result of her behaviour.
She has to feel your absence from her life. 
Stay cool and politely have her to leave your house and go either to her father’s or to OM or to anyone she wants to find whatever she is looking for. Be strong and decisive. Most probably pretty soon she is going to be back with y or she will use again her father for this reason. Keep the emails for yourself and use them as an answer and as a secret card to your sleeve.


----------



## Shaggy

She's reading from the cheaters script 100%

You need to pull the rug out completely from under her, and not the same order you did last time. Obviously your actions last time hurt the affair enough to drive it underground - but not enough to stop it.

Is it currently PA? If you kick her out - you need to warn her that her using this leaving as a reason to go PA with him or shack up with him - means it's done. No negotiation - no other option.

Big gun time. File and then boot her. Go dark. If you even consider letting her have yet another chance - you need to be draconian in your demands for openness transparency and no contact.


----------



## EHuntIMF

I want to pull it out, but i still have to work (pay bills) and we currently have only one car. As soon as my car gets here then i will be more than happy to do everything suggested. I am tired of being lied to and my intelligence insulted. Question for the group: i am a large man (football offensive lineman) should i raise my voice at her when i tell her to leave or should i be completely calm and basically help her pack her bags? Which has a more powerful effect? I do love her and want her, but not at this price. Its only an ea at this point, he lives 2 time zones from us and by the emails they haven't met up.....yet
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

EHuntIMF said:


> I want to pull it out, but i still have to work (pay bills) and we currently have only one car. As soon as my car gets here then i will be more than happy to do everything suggested. I am tired of being lied to and my intelligence insulted. Question for the group: i am a large man (football offensive lineman) should i raise my voice at her when i tell her to leave or should i be completely calm and basically help her pack her bags? Which has a more powerful effect? I do love her and want her, but not at this price. Its only an ea at this point, he lives 2 time zones from us and by the emails they haven't met up.....yet
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly, cold and emotionless will likely be most effective.

Yelling shows care and emotional investment, coldness shows disappointment and detactchment and commitment to this action.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shamwow

Don't raise your voice. Agree with Shaggy that not only is it safest to keep emotions checked in this situation, it will also leave a stronger impression on her. She knows what she's done. And she still lies to your face. Disappointment and detachment are the correct alpha responses. She may be gone, but she'll look back on that moment and respect you. And you will too. Trust me.

But also have a VAR on you when you confront, just in case she decides to call the police (or family/friends, whoever) and get "creative" in describing how you kicked her out. Even if you were a small guy I'd say to do that. Just stay calm and tell her what is going to happen now.


----------



## Shamwow

I also gotta say...I understand the desire/need to wait for the car to be delivered, etc, before confronting. But I'll be amazed if you can wait that long (5 days?). You can get a rental for a few days. Just saying, keep your options open, you are in control, you can do anything that you want now.

Once I had my evidence in hand and knew for a FACT that I was being stonewalled and lied to by XW, I think I made it one day before bolting. The thought of sitting around pretending not to know, watching TV and just trying to act "normal" until everything was in place...sounded so much harder than just putting the plan into action. Just get your most important affairs in order quickly and be ready to act on impulse if it strikes you.

Good luck Hunt...sorry it came around to this for you...


----------



## EHuntIMF

Thanks sham, the only reason i haven't blown up and start breaking stuff is that i keep going back to your example. I have the VAR already, and was able to get the emails confirming they went underground, but the car thing is the only hold-up. I want to bolt so bad, but between working and school, i have to sit tight at least until thursday after work, i would only need a car saturday (chemistry lab) and basically i would take a few days off. It sucks to be in this position
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Why not do what I recommended earlier? She's there and if she's willing.....can't hurt.  

Seriously though, stay calm and do something that will keep her off your mind. Keep doing the 180, just do your own thing. 
Do you have any friends you can go hang out with to ease the tension?


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## Shaggy

Take a taxi if you need to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> Why not do what I recommended earlier? She's there and if she's willing.....can't hurt.
> 
> Seriously though, stay calm and do something that will keep her off your mind. Keep doing the 180, just do your own thing.
> Do you have any friends you can go hang out with to ease the tension?


Yeah, give her a good one for the road. Tell her its something to remember you by.


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## hookares

Four months?? Come-On-MAN!!!


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## EHuntIMF

hookares said:


> Four months?? Come-On-MAN!!!


Well we didn't speak much today. I had class after work and came home late (her friend from work dropped her off) i came in the house and she got up and met me with a hug and kiss, but it was a bit akward and seemed forced. I guess from her continued contact with OM and our long talk yesterday. I tried to remain as normal as possible and when asked what's wrong, i just responded with stress from work and school. Hopefully the car will get pickup today from my mom's house (she is the one giving me the car and having it transported to me, due to this situation) and the car should be here in 3-5 days. I am just trying to stay busy and away from her until the car gets here. Question for everybody: would there be any benefit to calling the OM and telling him off? Would i do that before or after i confront the WW? How would i proceed with calling him and what would i say? I am asking because i was never one on verbal threats (seems empty), but to just go and start cracking heads while i was explaining the reason for doing so.... would i call him in front of her or do it in private? Need guidance, before i screw this all up again...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Most here would tell you not to call, that he doesn't care and its all on her. 

I see it differently, I would keep calm and call him. Iwould doit in front of her and let her and him know at the same time that you are done with her cheating a$$. Tell him he ruined a marriage now come and get her lying a$$. I woluld also tell him what I planned to do if I ever saw him.


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## Shamwow

If you are resolved to be done with her, then I see no point. I know you want to lay into the guy, just curious what you would hope to gain from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd

Shamwow said:


> If you are resolved to be done with her, then I see no point. I know you want to lay into the guy, just curious what you would hope to gain from it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In my case I left the conversation more pissed than before I talked to him. Not only that but the police showed up at my door and I was told if I contacted him again they would arrest me. Really it's just not worth it, but I guess I scared him a little. (hell I scared myself)


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## Almostrecovered

my brief call to OM was worthless, just a lot of lies

it was fun to scare him tho


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## EHuntIMF

Shamwow said:


> If you are resolved to be done with her, then I see no point. I know you want to lay into the guy, just curious what you would hope to gain from it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sham, honestly I don't want to be done with her and I want this to work and in my mind.....idk....I guess it was to show her how serious I am about us and that I am willing to fight. I just want to make sure that I've done everything I could do for this marriage before truly being done with it. I want to walk away with a clear conscience knowing I did everything I could and not leave with regrets or coulda, shoulda, wouldas. Again, it hasn't gone PA (read more emails from last night) and honestly I have to reconcile my decision with my faith, which I'm having trouble. Is this cheating (emotionally) yes, but since its not physical, I don't have a biblical basis for divorce. I know there are those that don't agree with that last part, however, you don't know my story of my former life before I met my wife and how much my faith and growth in God has carried me through a LOT of situations, that would have crippled me before him. I am trying to get in an IC session tonight because I am just not feeling right in my head. Body is healthy, but my mind is all over the place. I do love her, but I just can't live like this knowing that the one person I should be able to sleep with both eyes closed, is the very one with the dagger.


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## Shaggy

don't bother talking to or contacting the OM. The only thing in that direction that has any affect is if he has a wife/gf and you contact them.

He doesn't care about you, and if anything he views you as an enemy who he would be saving her from.

Why can't you take a taxi for a couple of days if you need it? I think you're using the car as an excuse to delay your actions.


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## bandit.45

I'm a Christian too and I can tell you that this very much adultery. Adultery of the heart is every bit as bad as a PA in Gods eyes. You are biblically authorised under the Law to divorce her. 

I would wait till you have the car, help her pack and before she leaves call the OM to come pick her up. Tell him thanks for showing you what a scuzzy excuse for a wife you have and that you appreciate him ridding your life of her. Be cordial and friendly about it. Don't let her believe it bothers you. Show stength.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bestplayer

EHuntIMF said:


> Sham, honestly I don't want to be done with her and I want this to work and in my mind.....idk....I guess it was to show her how serious I am about us and that I am willing to fight. I just want to make sure that I've done everything I could do for this marriage before truly being done with it. I want to walk away with a clear conscience knowing I did everything I could and not leave with regrets or coulda, shoulda, wouldas. Again, it hasn't gone PA (read more emails from last night) and honestly I have to reconcile my decision with my faith, which I'm having trouble. Is this cheating (emotionally) yes, but since its not physical, I don't have a biblical basis for divorce. I know there are those that don't agree with that last part, however, you don't know my story of my former life before I met my wife and how much my faith and growth in God has carried me through a LOT of situations, that would have crippled me before him. I am trying to get in an IC session tonight because I am just not feeling right in my head. Body is healthy, but my mind is all over the place. I do love her, but I just can't live like this knowing that the one person I should be able to sleep with both eyes closed, is the very one with the dagger.


Here goes one more doormat on TAM . I dont know why lately there has been a sudden increase in the number of men who love punishment .


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## warlock07

I think EA only affairs have the advantage of not including mind movies for the BS. Maybe it makes the hurt lesser and easier for R. I'm sure some will disagree though


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## Almostrecovered

warlock07 said:


> I think EA only affairs have the advantage of not including mind movies for the BS. Maybe it makes the hurt lesser and easier for R. I'm sure some will disagree though



it depends

I found my that my wife was easier to R with since her affair was mostly sexual- there was no real emotions to break her out of and the fog was light


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## EHuntIMF

Here's to the taxi question so that we can settle it.....To take a taxi from my house to the airport (6 miles) is about $20.00. and my job is about 18 miles from my house (do the math). so the taxi thing is too expensive. The car thing will allow me continue to do the school and work requirements without having to run up another bill to have to pay off later on. I am starting to understand what you guys are saying about the adultery of the heart, so I will try to find comfort in it. I still want to crack some heads, but I would be wrong 
I will confront her and I think I will call him in front of her and tell him to come get her. I do plan on calling her dad about this.....I made a promise to him, that since I was man enough to ask for his daughters hand in marriage, that if anything were to happen to us (no matters who is at fault) I would be man enough to go back to him and give his daughter back. Its more symbolic of my respect for him than really anything else. I did tell him when we went through this the first time "That I would pack up everything in this house and send her to him", and he understood where I was coming from. My mom has been told of everything, so of course she's upset at the WW, but basically she told me the same thing as you guys, without the divorce option. Mom says to just place the emails in front her, tell her that I'm done with working on this marriage to a woman who doesn't want a husband; Call the OM in front of her and give him permission to come get her, and basically just SUPER HARD 180 until everything is done until we D. Just basically walk around the house as if she doesn't exist. (I felt a little better knowing it came from my mom, for some reason). 
How do I go about handling the bills of the house after this? Do we split everything or continue to pay the bills as normal while she is still in the house?


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## bandit.45

When you see the lawyer about filing ask him regarding the bills. That will be part of the separation/divorce agreement. Make sure he files for separation and divorce so you are not liable for any debt she incurrs after the filing date. Make sure you cancel all joint credit cards before you drop the bomb. 

I like your idea about calling her dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Almostrecovered said:


> it depends
> 
> I found my that my wife was easier to R with since her affair was mostly sexual- there was no real emotions to break her out of and the fog was light


You were lucky in that your wife was pissed off by the OM's portrayal of her in front of his wife. That you had a common enemy worked well for both of you. I still get pissed off when I remember that part of your story when she did it the second time after getting caught and was thinking that she was being sneaky and very clever about it and the way she reacted when you called her out(righteous indignation?) on it. Would it matter if there was more truth to the affair now?

Sorry for the threadjack


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## EHuntIMF

warlock07 said:


> You were lucky in that your wife was pissed off by the OM's portrayal of her in front of his wife. That you had a common enemy worked well for both of you. I still get pissed off when I remember that part of your story when she did it the second time after getting caught and was thinking that she was being sneaky and very clever about it and the way she reacted when you called her out(righteous indignation?) on it. Would it matter if there was more truth to the affair now?
> 
> Sorry for the threadjack


Well, got confirmation car will be here around the 19th. Have to lay low, get my money together and see the lawyer. May just spring everything at once. Good move or bad move?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

The next time she asks you what is wrong or something like that just say, "Things just don't seem to be going to well , do they?" "I can't figure it out,something just seems to feel wrong. Don't you think so too?'


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## Shamwow

Are you still able to monitor her email, etc?


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## dymo

EHuntIMF said:


> Well, got confirmation car will be here around the 19th. Have to lay low, get my money together and see the lawyer. May just spring everything at once. Good move or bad move?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good move.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EHuntIMF

Sham- I am able to monitor the emails through her phone when I am able to get to it. The keylogger worked for 3 days, but then crapped out on me. I didn't tell her about it in case she as doing this again and would be careless. I try to get to the phone in the morning when she is in the shower, so that I have audio clues when she gets in and out. Had sex this morning, but it was early this morning and she wasn't entirely into it and basically I was just trying to get off. Sad huh? Having to wait over a week for the car while gathering info is stressful sometimes. Went to the gym last night, but honestly wasn't feeling very motivated, and just mailed it in. Anyone have any suggestions on how to stay motivated throughout this whole ordeal?


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## Shaggy

Have you tried the physcial type of keylogger that you plugin on the end of the keyboard wire into the computer?

Also - why no VAR in the car?


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## EHuntIMF

She has a laptop so a physical keylogger is too suspicious. The VAR in the car, is pointless because i have the car the majority of the time due to work, church and school schedule. When i get my own car in a week or so, then i will revisit the issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Don't feel bad about the sex. Really. She doesn't give a damn about your feelings so why not just have at it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 67flh

be a really bad thing to get her pregnant now..be careful


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## bandit.45

True. 

Wear a wubba....


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## EHuntIMF

Pregnancy won't be a problem, because she has sworn off kids and doesn't want them (Another sticky point for another forum). Basically I am trying to be upbeat without letting her know anything, but it just eats me up inside how someone you love and is suppose to be there for you, can betray you without even a pause in their thought process. Have to pick her up from work and this morning wasn't exactly a lovefest. BTW....I have stop saying I love you's and initiating contact. I am going to make sure this 180 sticks (TEARS BE DAMNED!)


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## EHuntIMF

Well, here's an update. She asked for a divorce and one of her reasons is that i was talking to another woman too much and that we can no longer trust eadh other. Now the kicker is that this other woman has been my friend for almost 20 years, has 3 kids and is currently pregnant (7 mo) with her 4th and she lives on the other side of the country. She went through something similar with her husband and i have been asking her for advice. I told my W about her, but she says i wasn't open enough about her to justify talking to her. She feels like we have absolutely no trust with each other and basically to stay togetherwould just repeat this cycle of mistrust so we should just divorce. She didn't even consider counseling.....so i guess i will be moving this thread to the divorce section. Do i act civil or even nice to her until she moves out? She already had a plan on moving out to her parents' house and basically had an exit strategy. We still have some financials to work out, but she is showing a host of emotions right now. One minute she's angry, next sad with tears, then more anger, then sadness, and now she's upstairs sleeping. Question: if she is asking for this divorce, why is sheconcerned about how i am feeling? She keeps asking if i am ok? What is that all about?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

So she's blaming it all on you. Nice. Are you still going to out her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Its part of the blameshifting. Its not uncommon for the WS to accuse their BS of cheating, because thats what the WS is doing. She's asking you how you're doing out of guilt, and not out of any real concern for your well being.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration

EHuntIMF said:


> Well, here's an update. She asked for a divorce and one of her reasons is that i was talking to another woman too much and that we can no longer trust eadh other. Now the kicker is that this other woman has been my friend for almost 20 years, has 3 kids and is currently pregnant (7 mo) with her 4th and she lives on the other side of the country. She went through something similar with her husband and i have been asking her for advice. I told my W about her, but she says i wasn't open enough about her to justify talking to her. She feels like we have absolutely no trust with each other and basically to stay togetherwould just repeat this cycle of mistrust so we should just divorce. She didn't even consider counseling.....so i guess i will be moving this thread to the divorce section. Do i act civil or even nice to her until she moves out? She already had a plan on moving out to her parents' house and basically had an exit strategy. We still have some financials to work out, but she is showing a host of emotions right now. One minute she's angry, next sad with tears, then more anger, then sadness, and now she's upstairs sleeping. Question: if she is asking for this divorce, why is sheconcerned about how i am feeling? She keeps asking if i am ok? What is that all about?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


E my man, she is projecting. She is a total tramp. You know what she is doing. If I may make a suggestion. Tell her to pack and move NOW. Tell her not to give you another thought. Tell her that you have a lot of great of qualities so you don't expect to be without company for long. Tell her that she is projecting her own cheating ways on you. Tell her she thinks tramp, because she acts tramp.


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## dymo

So you never confronted her on her continued contact with OM? 

I'm reminded of Shamwow's thread where he felt like it was a race to see who went for divorce first. Looks like she won. It doesn't matter. The end result is the same.

Just agree with her. You were planning to file for divorce anyway. But don't pet her go on thinking that you didn't know what you knew.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf

Are you sure she hasn't been reading this thread and knew what you were planning? Maybe she decided to file first to head off your exposure so she wouldn't look like the bad guy.


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## happyman64

Ehunt
Your wife s right, you guys should divorce.
She has cheated on you.
She said she does not love you.
She continues contact with the OM.
She does not want to work on the marriage.

Why the hell would you stay.

Go in her phone, take it out of the house and forward all her messages to your account.
Print out the really "explicit" emails and make multiple copies.

Take a set to her parents so they know the real reason she is leaving you. Leave a set on her packed bags so she knows why she has to leave now.
Do not give her the car until your car arrives.

And keep the last set of emails for you to read so you can remind yourself of why you are divorcing your wife.

Show some backbone, stop making excuses and move forward to make your life better.

Let your wife go. Let her make the mistakes that she needs to do to follow her heart. F'Her my man.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

She's trying toget you to beg her to stay. She just trying to see where you stand. Tell her what you know and that she can have the OM.


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## EHuntIMF

chapparal said:


> She's trying toget you to beg her to stay. She just trying to see where you stand. Tell her what you know and that she can have the OM.


This morning was interesting and I think I agree with you on some points. This morning she brought "separating" for awhile, do counseling and see how we feel after that. The only thing went through my mind was, "..you are just trying to eat cake, and keep me for a back-up. The guys at TAM warned me about this." So I just told her, look my position is this, I am not leaving, I want us to work out, but if you want to go then that is your choice and you will have to leave. She said, she will think about this for little while longer.

Let me explain my position so that everyone can be on the same page. Everyone wants me to just blast and expose her with the emails (which I agree and will do), the only problem I have with that suggestion is the timing. Everyone is saying expose now, but I said that I am not in a position to do so, until MY car arrives here, which should be Saturday morning. Her mom called me questioning about the phone calls I made (which I told her you can call my friend if you want and in fact you can call my mom as well, because she knows all about this) and right now the blame seems to be in my direction. I already have 3 sets of the emails I got from her phone (mine, expose WW, and to her parents) and again the only thing I am waiting on is for my car to arrive. I am still working out the financials, and I think I can swing the house by myself, but it will be extremely hard. 

I have to be honest and say a part of me wants to work this out between us, but after my prayer time today I am at peace that it may not and we will have to separate then divorce. If she chooses to go (I give her a week tops to make that decision) then I move quickly. I remember people here saying (S/O to Sham) to not tip my hand on what I am doing or know, and to get prepared to move quickly, so that she won't have a chance to Gaslight or come up with anything type of blameshift, and then do a HARD DARK 180. Any other suggestions?


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## EHuntIMF

Good news, Got the call from the driver and he will be here with my car tomorrow morning early!


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## Beowulf

EHuntIMF said:


> This morning was interesting and I think I agree with you on some points. This morning she brought "separating" for awhile, do counseling and see how we feel after that. The only thing went through my mind was, "..you are just trying to eat cake, and keep me for a back-up. The guys at TAM warned me about this." So I just told her, look my position is this, I am not leaving, I want us to work out, but if you want to go then that is your choice and you will have to leave. She said, she will think about this for little while longer.
> 
> Let me explain my position so that everyone can be on the same page. Everyone wants me to just blast and expose her with the emails (which I agree and will do), the only problem I have with that suggestion is the timing. Everyone is saying expose now, but I said that I am not in a position to do so, until MY car arrives here, which should be Saturday morning. Her mom called me questioning about the phone calls I made (which I told her you can call my friend if you want and in fact you can call my mom as well, because she knows all about this) and right now the blame seems to be in my direction. I already have 3 sets of the emails I got from her phone (mine, expose WW, and to her parents) and again the only thing I am waiting on is for my car to arrive. I am still working out the financials, and I think I can swing the house by myself, but it will be extremely hard.
> 
> I have to be honest and say a part of me wants to work this out between us, but after my prayer time today I am at peace that it may not and we will have to separate then divorce. If she chooses to go (I give her a week tops to make that decision) then I move quickly. I remember people here saying (S/O to Sham) to not tip my hand on what I am doing or know, and to get prepared to move quickly, so that she won't have a chance to Gaslight or come up with anything type of blameshift, and then do a HARD DARK 180. Any other suggestions?


I think you have it covered. Just make sure to send proof of the real reason for the split. Maybe her family and friends can show her the error of her ways.


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## Beowulf

EHuntIMF said:


> Good news, Got the call from the driver and he will be here with my car tomorrow morning early!


Good news. Sounds like you should start popping popcorn. The show is about to begin.


----------



## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> Stay frosty and don't let on. Bang her a few times for good measure.


Only provided that you relish the possibility of acquiring some strange STD!

Call your attorney and immediately get things going! You owe it to yourself!


----------



## naperken

warlock07 said:


> I think EA only affairs have the advantage of not including mind movies for the BS. Maybe it makes the hurt lesser and easier for R. I'm sure some will disagree though


I would be in the 'disagree' camp. Although my wife's was only an EA, there's something about finding a graphic fantasy love letter that makes it feel just as real as a PA. And yes, it was only an EA... The OMW and I were talking and filling in blanks shortly after d-day. I told her I thought it had been only an EA and she chuckled. The OM had severe type 1 diabetes and had been impotent for years. Still trying to wrap my head around that one... How she came to be infatuated with that loser. For awhile, the only way I could process it was that she was willing to choose 'anybody but me' and, believe me, that's not a path of self-destruction that I would recommend. I've since re-framed it in a way that is more conducive for our R.


----------



## warlock07

I think she knew that you found out(atleast in some caapacity) and is blame shifting and gas lighting pre-emptively so that she can justify her actions. Check if your laptop is keylogged. Please don't trust this woman.


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## EHuntIMF

warlock07 said:


> I think she knew that you found out(atleast in some caapacity) and is blame shifting and gas lighting pre-emptively so that she can justify her actions. Check if your laptop is keylogged. Please don't trust this woman.


Thanks warlock, usually I respond to you guys from work, just to make sure nothing like that happens. I have a new twist for the Wise one here: Wife took off work today to go shopping and run some errands (yeah, I know I know) and something strange happened. She called my job and was checking in, but the number on the ID was not her cell phone number! (2nd phone or google voice??) I wrote down the number, but didn't immediately call it back, I just called her back on her usual number and we chatted for a bit. 

I am already at the place where I am starting not to care about her....Do I call the number now or do I wait until I expose with the emails tomorrow and then call? Should I even try to call the OM and tell him to get lost? She already has plans to move back in to her parents, so should I just accelerate this process and just be done with everything? She keeps saying that she knows this EA is messed up and has hurt us, but she still thinks about him lot. What process should I follow with this one?


----------



## bandit.45

Its probably the secret phone she uses to call the OM. I think you just confirmed they have been hooking up physically.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

She messed up and used the burner phone. 

I'd wait until later tonight and call it from your phone and listen for it ringing/vibrating. Perhaps in her car??

If you don't want her to know it's you calling it - then call it from skype or another iphone. - that will keep her guessing 

Make sure you expose to her parents and have a chat with them about her likely looking to use them to provide cover for her affair.


----------



## Beowulf

EHuntIMF said:


> Thanks warlock, usually I respond to you guys from work, just to make sure nothing like that happens. I have a new twist for the Wise one here: Wife took off work today to go shopping and run some errands (yeah, I know I know) and something strange happened. She called my job and was checking in, but the number on the ID was not her cell phone number! (2nd phone or google voice??) I wrote down the number, but didn't immediately call it back, I just called her back on her usual number and we chatted for a bit.
> 
> I am already at the place where I am starting not to care about her....Do I call the number now or do I wait until I expose with the emails tomorrow and then call? Should I even try to call the OM and tell him to get lost? She already has plans to move back in to her parents, so should I just accelerate this process and just be done with everything? She keeps saying that she knows this EA is messed up and has hurt us, but she still thinks about him lot. What process should I follow with this one?


Of course she has another phone. She has never stopped contact. You know that now. She is still in her EA and it probably went to a PA a while ago. You should do what you have been advised to do. File and let reality hit her like a 2x4 to the side of the head. When you confront her simply say that you gave her a chance and she stayed in contact with her affair partner. You can show her your evidence and maybe call that phone number with her sitting in front of you. Tell her you wanted to work it out but she is not ready to resume being married so you're letting her go to pursue the OM if she wants. Tell her she can join his ever growing harem. Tell her you are filing for divorce no matter what but if she wants to commit to the marriage she needs to end her affair for real and commit to you (assuming you even want to try R again). There is no 3rd person in the marriage. Tell her once you file the clock is ticking and it's on her time then so she'd better step up and convince you she is with you to stay. Do not accept a separation. Tell her if you separate you are moving straight to divorce with no turning back.


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## Beowulf

Shaggy said:


> She messed up and used the burner phone.
> 
> I'd wait until later tonight and call it from your phone and listen for it ringing/vibrating. Perhaps in her car??
> 
> If you don't want her to know it's you calling it - then call it from skype or another iphone. - that will keep her guessing
> 
> Make sure you expose to her parents and have a chat with them about her likely looking to use them to provide cover for her affair.


It would be sweet if he found the phone, placed it in front of her and called it.


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## Shaggy

Beowulf said:


> It would be sweet if he found the phone, placed it in front of her and called it.


another thing would be to see if he can get into it and install a GPS tracker etc.


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## Beowulf

Shaggy said:


> another thing would be to see if he can get into it and install a GPS tracker etc.


Ooo that's good.


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## Chaparral

I don't think she is sure of herself and she wants you to fight for her. She has noticed you have changed and feels something is coming . If she knows you are getting a car, the handwriting on the wall is probably obvious.

When you get the car, set her down and go over the info you have. Let her sell you on what she wants and it better be a good sell I am sure to get you to hang.

Good luck


----------



## warlock07

And the other phone number might just be a red herring. Don't worry too much about that.

And your wife has absolutely no conviction for you or the marriage. She is just letting it peter out. Make sure she knows what she is getting into and that there is no guarantee that you you to take her back if her OM or some other guy doesn't work out.


----------



## EHuntIMF

Well, just picked up my car. Last night was weird, basically we did small talk throughout the day, but to say it was uncomfortable between us would be an understatement. I have been stressing all day but got to hang out with a bunch of guys from church and laugh so it helped a bit. When we got home last night, we really didn't speak much, (she got on her computer) but when she came to bed she was surprisingly affectionate with kisses and holding me tight, but no sex (mother nature). Should i take this as some sort of cover? I have a IC session tonight and probably will expose afterwards. What are my next steps?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snap

Don't overthink it. Expose as you planned.


----------



## warlock07

EHuntIMF said:


> Well, just picked up my car. Last night was weird, basically we did small talk throughout the day, but to say it was uncomfortable between us would be an understatement. I have been stressing all day but got to hang out with a bunch of guys from church and laugh so it helped a bit. When we got home last night, we really didn't speak much, (she got on her computer) but when she came to bed she was surprisingly affectionate with kisses and holding me tight, but no sex (mother nature). Should i take this as some sort of cover? I have a IC session tonight and probably will expose afterwards. What are my next steps?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe she was feeling guilty for something she did..Too much guess work at this point.


----------



## Chaparral

Show her what you've got and ask why she lied.


----------



## Beowulf

chapparal said:


> Show her what you've got and ask why she lied.


I agree. No more thinking. It's time for you to act.


----------



## bandit.45

Get to it and quit wasting time. Don't let the fire die out now. She is a cheater and you need to expose her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NaturalHeart

You got the car, this woman is calling you from different numbers, sexting another man, telling you she wants a divorce, telling you she does not know if she loves you...... she is doing everything to her benefit. Even the affectionate kissing ..... :scratchhead: ...Are you hesitant to confront because you feel like she has the upper hand? Being that you see her behavior and you're not addressing it seems like you're letting her live the single life while being married to you. 

You deserve better. There are plenty single women out there wanting a GOD FEARING, church going, gym running man that does not have kids. You are a great catch dont get it twisted. When people show you their worse behavior and you stay, *it will EITHER make them do better as a spouse or see the situation as something they got away with.* Push mode come in where they get bold and see how much more they can get away with- - sue to the fact that you didn't leave after being disrespected highly. You deserve better


----------



## Shwagulous

No no no, you're not supposed to go dark on us here at TAM  I hope all it going well for you today Mr. Hunt. Update us when you can.

***and fade out with Mission Impossible theme music***


----------



## endlessgrief

I am sorry to say that I used to send provocative pics to a guy I worked with via email because I was craving validation from other men to feel sexy and desired. My husband found them by accident (I didn't even think to erase them, I actually thought it was no big deal). Boy was I wrong. I broke my husband's heart and caused him so much pain. 

That was 10 years ago and he will still bring it up, not as a jab or an argument, but just to check and see who I am talking to online. So I understand your devastation and I hope your and your wife can put this behind you. Just hide all cameras just in case


----------



## NaturalHeart

No update?????????


----------



## lordmayhem

shaylady said:


> No update?????????


:iagree:

I thought he was just waiting for the vehicle to arrive? 

Come on Hunt, either check in or you're gonna get disavowed.


----------



## NaturalHeart

Has this happen before- where someone comes in this forum and tell their story but leave you hanging for weeks? Just wondered.


----------



## Almostrecovered

could be a multitude of reasons

-too embarrassed to give update in fear he will be chastised
-too much of a trigger to come back
-hit by a bus


----------



## EHuntIMF

quick update: Wasn't able to confront wife due to issues with the car needing to be fixed when I first was making plans. She then tries to confront me with phone numbers of women I've been calling and saying that I'm in the wrong. Here's the thing, both women are actually related to me (cousins) and I even offered to sit in on the conversation while she calls them. Both of them have actually been her biggest advocate and telling me to stay in the marriage. She is saying that she doesn't want to do marriage counseling of any sort and wants a divorce (cue tears). I kept my cool and proceeded to place the emails right on her laptop, and her face dropped. I calmly said, "I am tired of trying to be a good husband to a woman who clearly doesn't want one, so you are free to go." After that incident (march 14th) we didn't speak for a few days. Her parents went out of town and she went and stayed at their house for a week. I haven't made any type of move to talk to her, because honestly I was trying to keep myself busy with school work, (i had mid terms recently) and just taking care of other responsibilities. School ends for me in early May and then I will file. I have to concentrate on these classes and can't worry about her or her feelings right now. She has made no effort to talk about our marriage, which at this point, I Just don't care. We are sleeping in separate rooms due to financial reasons, but as soon as the papers are filed, she'll probably move back into her parents' house. This is where we stand, I ill update in a few days.


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## Shamwow

Sorry man.

My take: Meh. File now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

He doesn't need any additional drama until may


----------



## Shamwow

I get that. Seems to me there will be nothing but that until then anyway. Lay it out and be done with it.

Tha fact that she's giving Hunt crap about talking with female cousins pisses me off.


----------



## tacoma

Shamwow said:


> I get that. Seems to me there will be nothing but that until then anyway. Lay it out and be done with it.
> 
> Tha fact that she's giving Hunt crap about talking with female cousins pisses me off.


Blameshifting, pretty common but yeah oh so insidious.


----------



## happyman64

EHunt,

Way to go on confronting the wife.

Concentrate on you and school.

Then do a full spring cleanup in May getting rid of all the accumulated trash including your wife.

Keep moving forward EHunt.

HM64


----------



## bandit.45

Good luck EHunt. She does not know what she is giving up. Sad really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EHuntIMF

*sending 2x4s all around* but please want until the end....I am doing better

AND YES THIS IS EXTREMELY LONG< TRYING TO FIT A YEAR OF STUFF IN HERE!!!!! YOU'VE BEEN WARNED

So last march was the last time I was on, so I will give the bullet version of events and I need help from the TAM community

- Mayidn't confront about EA's but did confront about changing behavior (recovering nice guy)
- Spent my birthday together (last time we had sex) and I would try to spend more time with her (blameshifting alert)
- June, July, : basically didn't go to summer school, and tried to spend time together, but she was on WoW anywhere from 20-45 HOURS per Week [still talking to OM by the way]
-Aug: Confronted her about her lack of working and desire (she said, she was working through things inside of her) 
Aug 20th: I take a trip out of town to help my mom pack up her house to begin moving
Aug 26th 2012: Come back in, W picks me up, still no affection
Aug 29th: I ask her what she wants to do? "She says she wants a divorce."

She also proceeds to tell me that she no longer sees me as a husband or lover. I ask "why?" (hurt, but wanted to know her reasons) so here is her list:

-never have time for her (I am in school for my degree and work full time)
- She doesn't want to wake up in 5 years and things be the same
-She is unhappy
-She has been unhappy for a long time (yes: history rewrite 101)
- We aren't connected emotionally
- (insert your favorite blameshift reason)

I say ok, I am not going to fight you, if that is what you want....then you can have it. I make a promise to her to treat her as my wife until the day she walks out the door

In response to knowing what is coming I start IC.
Sept- in house separation and 180, but still was sleeping in same bed (yes, commence with 2x4s beating), she applies for her apartment
Oct- DD3- The day/night before she moves out (Oct. 19th) I finally discover the extent of her EA, and confront her. She was really affectionate with me in the morning (kissing, and hugs, but no sex) and then she went into the shower t do some last minute things for her apartment.

(sidebar) I finally had access to her phone and laptop, and discovered pictures, emails, text, and even their plans for him to visit her in Dec. at her new apartment. I knew about the EA's but somehow seeing the pics and the I love you's going back and forth did something inside of me.

(back to the DD3) After gathering all the evidence and reviewing it for a few hours. I waited for her to get home: I wanted to cook dinner to help my mind be at ease. She comes home and sees the look on my face and ask "what is wrong?"

At this point I say to myself: "There is no point in confronting, the marriage is over, lets just let this be a good night and move on with our lives" I said to STBXW, "nothing, lets just eat and let this go." She insisted on knowing what was wrong and pulled me to the couch. So, I said what the hell? and the beginning of the convo is as follows

stbxw- What's on your mind?
me- Do you love him?
stbxw- who? (our dog's name)
me- No. Do you love (OM's full name)
stbxw- *expression changes* where is this coming from?
me- Look I already saw everything: emails, texts, pics.....hell I even know he is coming out in Dec. to visit you at your apartment. Do you love him?
stbxw- "I don't know"
Me- "What do you mean you don't know? Its a yes or no question!
stbxw- I think I do
Me- (calmly) Well, if you honestly feel that he can love you better than me, then by all means I will let you go. I will NOT be that guy who calls you, I will not be that guy to hide in your bushes, i will not email you, or harass you. You are free to leave

At this point stbxw starts to cry and babbles on about killing herself and that I would be better off without her and we go back and forth for about an hour, with nothing really being accomplished. She gets ready to storm out of the door and I make one last attempt: I said, "I am willing to look past everything and forgive, but you have to stay and WE need to work on this marriage, and it will be WORK. Will you stay home?" She looks at me calmly, proceeds to take her house key off her keychain and place it in my hand.... She leaves and drives off for about an hour and I finish cooking dinner

She comes back home, looking tired and defeated for some reason. I calmly ask her if she is hungry? She says, "yes". I respond and say, get our of those clothes (it was raining) and head upstairs and I will bring up dinner.

I bring dinner up and we eat on the bed in silence. 

She asks- "Why are you still nice to me and feeding me?"
I respond- "I made a vow to God and a promise to you that I will treat you as my wife until the end, no matter if you deserve it or not. God has loved me and forgiven me, and I am instructed to do the same for you."

We finished dinner. Went to sleep. The next morning (Oct. 20th) I get up, she starts to finish packing the rest of her things, and I leave to give her space and go to work on my paper (college). I come back after a few hours and she is gone.

Now for the fast forward date to today:

- She came over for dinner on Christmas and watched a movie, then left (recovering NG, I know, but it does get better)
-I can't file for divorce until we have been physically separated for a year, but I have already contacted a lawyer.
-I am still in IC
- The last time I saw the stbxw was when she made a lame excuse to bring over a gift in March. (Fuji Apple: my favorite)
- it was a short convo at best and I cut it off.
- I have met other women and gone on dates, and basically G.A.L.
-i have not contacted her or emailed her unless it was about taxes (2012 was the last year we are filing jointly) or business
- She has not stated that she will file
- She has contacted me yesterday saying, she misses me and wanted to know what I am doing on my birthday.
-I responded: "I appreciate you asking, but I already have plans. Thank you"

What do I do now? We are 7 months out from separating and she hits me this email:

"_Thank you for getting back to me. Yes I know how you are around your birthday and I guess id be the last person you would want to spend it with. I don’t know why I asked. It was dumb of me. 

I hope you forgive the intrusion. I guess its pretty pointless me reaching out at this point so ill just say what ive been wanting to say.

I miss talking to you and getting your feedback and hearing your honesty. Most of all, I miss you. I keep going back and forth about contacting you but always talk myself out of it because why would you care or want to hear from me. I realize that everything I’ve done has been a huge mistake and I am living with the consequences of it. I hope that this has served as a liberation for you and being that God actually likes you and is on your side, he has rewarded you for the grace with which you have handled all that I’ve put you through.



I hope that whatever you are doing and whatever your plans that you are with people you love and care about and who love and care about you. Have the best birthday you have ever had. 

Enjoy your new year of life _"

What is this all about? Well my therapist says to continue leaving her alone and just proceed with my own life because she still hasn't got it yet and needs to work on herself. any insights? please be gentle with the 2x4's


----------



## BK23

Move on, dude. You've already made it past the worst of it! No kids, you're young, don't look back. Find someone who deserves you.


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## Shaggy

Sorry to say it, but you are not at all in recover from being a nice guy. You are still firmly entrenched. Helping her move and fix up her love nest is a example of the nice guy still being firmly in control,

So you never exposed her cheating?


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## bryanp

Only a masochist would consider even talking to her. Move on to a better life. She is absolutely toxic to you and to herself as well.


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## bryanp

Helping her move and fixing up her love nest. What is wrong with this picture?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Go read the thread again, you know the answer. Things fell apart on her end and you are plan B. If she sent that email a week, maybe a month, after you seperated I'd say she was snapped out of the fog give it a go. You are on the short side of a almost year; move on.


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## Will_Kane

You don't need permission from us if you want to try again with her.

I think you still have a lot of pain with her in your future - but it is YOUR future.

Nowhere in there did she say she wants to stay married to you or that she loves you. It sounds like her other options didn't pan out and you are the best of what's left.


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## Ovid

removed


----------



## Chaparral

What do you think? What would you like to happen?

I don't understand why the counselor was so negative, did you get more details from him? 

It sounds like she has realized she made a mistake, is that something you could get over? Why don't you ask her what she is getting at? If she just wants to be friends tell her to f off. Otherwise, it might even help to see her and find you have no feelings.

Did she meet up with the guy?

Does she still waste time on video games?

Do what feels right in your gut and say a little prayer.

Good luck


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## walkonmars

Looks like Plan B is looking much more attractive to her every day.


----------



## TRy

EHuntIMF said:


> We are 7 months out from separating and she hits me this email:
> 
> I miss talking to you and getting your feedback and hearing your honesty. Most of all, I miss you. I keep going back and forth about contacting you but always talk myself out of it because why would you care or want to hear from me. I realize that everything I’ve done has been a huge mistake and I am living with the consequences of it. I hope that this has served as a liberation for you and being that God actually likes you and is on your side, he has rewarded you for the grace with which you have handled all that I’ve put you through.


 When real life looked her in the eye, she saw how much she took you for granted and wants to see if she can have her old life with you back. By fantasy standards you did not measure up, but in real life, you are a good partner to face the world with.

Your wife learned that the other man (OM) was a fantasy like the game that she played (WoW) with him. When I played WoW I saw the other players for what they where in the game, and not for what they were in real life. A player that was very talented and played a lot had much status and was fun to be around. For all I knew that same talented player could be an unemployed loser, with no real world friends that still lives at home with their Mom, but for me that was not what I saw, or how I thought of them. I saw only the WoW player. Well you cannot pay your bills, enjoy friends, raise children, or face real life as a WoW player. That takes a real person like you.

She wants a second chance and I bet that she would be willing to do it on your terms. You need to decide what you want to do. What is best for you. No children and living on your own for 7 months, do not go back to her unless you feel that it is the thing that would make you the most happy. 

Before deciding to think about giving her a second chance, you must know everything that happened with her and the OM and others over the last 7 months. For instance, did she have sex with any of them. Then decide if you can live with that. If you do decide to give her a second chance, lay down the ground rules going forward that will govern your marraige and how you both deal with the opposite sex. I for one will not second guess your decision. This is your life, and since she is still married to you, she is still your wife. Be well and good luck.


----------



## VFW

It is all about her, her OM in out of state, so she is bored and wants attention from you. Never did she say that she wanted to be married to you, go to counselling, things are over with OM....nothing. She is throwing a line in the water and hoping that you will take the bait, so she can toy with you again. Do not respond to her message, do not call, just move on with your life.


----------



## tacoma

I'd block her e-mail and phone number right now!

You really don't need this.

This is still all about her.
OM didn't work out and now she's on to Plan B.

Don't contact her or read any communication from her anymore.
This will mess your head up.


----------



## firefly789

I am so, so, sorry for your situation. You posted your first post about 1 and 1/2 years ago. Now, you are still in limbo. As a religious person myself, I feel you have the ability to go forward without her. You are a person of integrity, she is not. I predict that you will find a wonderful woman in the future. You will be an awesome dad. You will raise children of integrity, with morals and goals. Or you can remain with W and remain in limbo.

Again, I am so sorry you are here. But, really, it is time to move on and find someone with morals that matches yours.


----------



## dsGrazzl3D

1st Sorry you are here. I jus' came on TAM recently & just 2'nite read thru post/thread... 


firefly789 said:


> As a religious person myself, I feel you have the ability to go forward without her. You are a person of integrity, she is not. *I predict that you will find a wonderful woman in the future. You will be an awesome dad. You will raise children of integrity, with morals and goals.* Or you can remain with W and remain in limbo.
> 
> It is time to move on and find someone with morals that matches yours.


Amen. I firmly believe that infidelity/adultery is the only reason for divorce ('jus my religious POV)... Also believe she is serial cheater. 



TRy said:


> Before deciding to think about giving her a second chance, you must know everything that happened with her and the OM and others over the last 7 months. For instance, did she have sex with any of them. Then decide if you can live with that. If you do decide to give her a second chance, lay down the ground rules going forward that will govern your marraige and how you both deal with the opposite sex. I for one will not second guess your decision. This is your life, and since she is still married to you, she is still your wife. Be well and good luck.


She seems to live a lot of her life wasting away in games, so why should her RL have same consequences? I think clean break will help. ** BUT **
:iagree::iagree::iagree:
'will also not second guess you.
Good Luck.


----------



## happyman64

EHunt

What do you want to do?

What do you want in life?

And more importantly, are you healed enough, strong enough and confident enough that you could have a face to face conversation with your wife and it will not set you back 1.5 years???

HM


----------



## warlock07

> I miss talking to you and getting your feedback and hearing your honesty. Most of all, I miss you. I keep going back and forth about contacting you but always talk myself out of it because w*hy would you care or want to hear from me.* I realize that everything I’ve done has been a *huge mistake* and I am living with the *consequences *of it. I hope that *this has served as a liberation* for you and being that *God actually likes you *and is on your side, he has rewarded you for the grace with which you have handled all that I’ve put you through.


She is trying to guilt you into starting a discussion.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife is having an EA and sending Pics....Please Help!*



warlock07 said:


> She is trying to guilt you into starting a discussion.


Definitely


----------



## EHuntIMF

bryanp said:


> Helping her move and fixing up her love nest. What is wrong with this picture?


I did not help her move or fix up her love nest. When she was packing up her stuff, I left the house to go work on my paper, knowing she would be gone when I came back. I have never been to her apartment and in fact I don't care to know where it is. After she left, I stopped checking on her and basically concentrated on me. She is a toxic person right now, and I do pray for her everyday, but I know that I can't deal with her right now. I am aware of my limitations and she is one of them.

Her parents already knew about the guy and I see them at church every week. Simply hello and how are you's nothing deep like it was before. I decided I was going to keep my hands clean of the whole situation. I didn't want to be near the fallout when the s--- hit the fan. I figure you would do exposure if you wanted the break the affair and get your wife back. I don't want her back, and I wanted to take the high road on this one. Was I wrong in my approach?

I did all that I could to be the best husband (NG speak) but my thinking is, "If she could do what she done when I was truly giving 100%, what happens later down the road, when she gets bored again?" 

The risk is too great and honestly my attraction for her has gone away. Is that normal? I refuse to see her, and basically stay busy with the things I have going on. I have even made the decision to not see my dog again (Had him from 8 weeks old and he'll be 13 in Oct.) just because I knew she would be involved in that. He doesn't have too long to live, but I will always have the memories.

Another set of questions for TAM: Do I try to help her by suggesting books for her to read? Also because the exposure was wide spread, I heard that coming out of the fog would be harder when they come out of it on their own. Is that correct? In my mind, I just didn't want to be there anymore, when (or if) she hits rock bottom. I don't want to be around to see that, because I am honestly concerned that some NG tendencies will flare up again, and I would make the problem worse. 

I have read, not just friends, co-dependency no more; NMMNG, MMSL, His Needs Her Needs, Women's Infidelity (pt 1 & 2 great book to explain to men how the hamster wheel works in a woman's mind and what her thinking process is.

I would have to say that the Women's Infidelity was a key book for me to let her go a lot sooner.....

I also have read that a woman who acts like this has no respect for her husband, and that respect is nearly impossible to get back. Would that be a correct assumption? I figure if the respect is never coming back, why be around? Just my thoughts, please help me with this one.... Also should I move this thread to another forum? How would I do that?


----------



## walkonmars

I suggest you don't look back, don't look to the side, look ahead and go your own way. The cord is cut - so it is written so it will be.


----------



## happyman64

walkonmars said:


> I suggest you don't look back, don't look to the side, look ahead and go your own way. The cord is cut - so it is written so it will be.


:iagree:

WOM is right. If your STBX is history then why help her at all?

Keep looking forward and have nothing to do with her. Especially if your "Nice Guy" tendencies will come back out.

It sounds like you are still working on you and your education so make that your priority.

HM64


----------



## Acabado

EHuntIMF said:


> I realize that everything I’ve done has been a huge mistake and I am living with the consequences of it.


Grass wasn't greener, fantasy/OM didn't pan out.


EHuntIMF said:


> What is this all about? Well my therapist says to continue leaving her alone and just proceed with my own life because she still hasn't got it yet and needs to work on herself. any insights? please be gentle with the 2x4's


Sure enough, she doesn't get it. Give up hope she will ever get it. She's gone forever.
Keep moving on.
Have you been dating?


----------



## EHuntIMF

Acabado said:


> Grass wasn't greener, fantasy/OM didn't pan out.
> Sure enough, she doesn't get it. Give up hope she will ever get it. She's gone forever.
> Keep moving on.
> Have you been dating?


Yes, I've been on dates. Nothing too serious, and just trying to work out and leave her out of my life. I don't call, text, or email. She's the one to contact me and I keep asking myself "Why is she contacting me? She fired me from this relationship.... WTF?"

Why do they say things like "I miss you" or "I just wanted to contact you and make sure everything is ok."? 

I usually just don't respond, but why do the cheaters want to check up on you or have conversations when they were the one's who wanted out?:scratchhead:


----------



## BK23

EHuntIMF said:


> Yes, I've been on dates. Nothing too serious, and just trying to work out and leave her out of my life. I don't call, text, or email. She's the one to contact me and I keep asking myself "Why is she contacting me? She fired me from this relationship.... WTF?"
> 
> Why do they say things like "I miss you" or "I just wanted to contact you and make sure everything is ok."?
> 
> I usually just don't respond, but why do the cheaters want to check up on you or have conversations when they were the one's who wanted out?:scratchhead:


Lot's of reasons. All of which are selfish. Some common ones: guilt, idle curiosity, boredom, attempting to reel you back in because her single life isn't as awesome as she expected, etc.


----------



## alte Dame

They want what they want. That's why they do it. When they want to cheat because the grass looks greener, that's what they want. When that doesn't work out and you suddenly look better, that's what they want. When they want you to disappear and not talk with or hear from you, that's what they want.

This is self-absorption, OP. Plain and simple.

You sound like a wonderful man. I'm hoping you won't be drawn into her life again. It seems pretty clear that, even though she may be wanting to have you in her life now, she'll be wanting something else soon enough.


----------



## 6301

Truth be told, when you first saw the explicit pictures she was sending the OM, I would have ended it right there. Sending those kinds of photos of her naked is flat out cheating. He may as well have been there in the room with her. Not to mention, The damn fool doesn't have any idea what this guy can do with the photos. He can post them on some porn site and anyone who has a computer can very well see them. I don't understand how someone can be so stupid to do something like that. Sooner or later it will come back and haunt her. Dumb. Really dumb.


----------



## aug

You haven't completely cut the cord to her yet. You are still praying for her. You are thinking about books she should read.

You should really detach quicker. The fact that you didn't allowed her to carry on what she did.

Detach now. Be indifferent to her. Dont respond to her. File the divorce when the 1-year is up in a few months.

You must detach and be indifferent to her so that you have a more successful chance with another woman and to move on with your life. Let your stbxw be a lesson learnt: caring and overwhelming a woman with your niceness is a turnoff and leads to disaster.


----------



## EHuntIMF

aug said:


> You haven't completely cut the cord to her yet. You are still praying for her. You are thinking about books she should read.
> 
> You should really detach quicker. The fact that you didn't allowed her to carry on what she did.
> 
> Detach now. Be indifferent to her. Dont respond to her. File the divorce when the 1-year is up in a few months.
> 
> You must detach and be indifferent to her so that you have a more successful chance with another woman and to move on with your life. Let your stbxw be a lesson learnt: caring and overwhelming a woman with your niceness is a turnoff and leads to disaster.


I am detaching, but it has been a roller coaster, but I am seeing progress in IC. Has there ever been a time when the WS came back and explained their reasoning for doing what they did?


----------



## TRy

EHuntIMF said:


> why do the cheaters want to check up on you or have conversations when they were the one's who wanted out?


 Because the grass is always greener on the other side, and now you are on the other side.


----------



## Chaparral

Your wife left you for another man. Period. Now she finds it was a mistake. Her reason was that she thought he was better than uou and she could move up. She did this online without ever meeting him in real life. In other words she isnt as bright as you thought.


----------



## Acabado

chapparal said:


> Your wife left you for another man. Period. Now she finds it was a mistake. Her reason was that she thought he was better than uou and she could move up. She did this online without ever meeting him in real life. In other words she isnt as bright as you thought.


As simply as this. Sometines you don't have to dig furthre becasue there's nothing more there o find out.
I've read you entire thread. She's a lost little kid and probably will stay lost for a good while. With the amunt of lies she has been feeding herself is possible she won't come out healthier ever. Sometimes happens. She's to be pitied really.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I'll garantee you that if you contact her back, you will pay a price.

You may think just texting, emailing, or chatting over the phone is safe and ok. Just like a fish that thought that the bait looked safe...

Don't take that bait. Why risk the hook?

If you bite, then next comes the gaff and you and up on the deck, all over again. Gutted 'n' filleted.

Take our advice, swim to safer waters.


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## Mtts

She's baiting you into a conversation in which she can find some grip or traction. As soon as you respond in any way you feed into her ego. She gets satisfaction that you still take the time of day to talk to her, which is what she feeds on, attention. 

In my opinion I would never respond to her again and ignore her completely, no responses of any kind. You should do this, not out of spite or hate but out of respect for yourself. You should not only respect your feelings, but the fact as a mortal body, we have limited time on this earth. Why spend that limited time worrying about someone who has an illness that will only make you sick as well.

She needs to figure out life on her own. She didn't before getting married to you and likely won't ever truly "get it." It's one of the pitfalls we all struggle with, coming to terms with our own circumstance and accepting our lives as what they are. The Holloywoodization of realtionships and the constant idea of "what if there is more out there for me." We often take for granted the acheivements we make in pursuit of new heights. Your wife is chasing a goal that has no true acheivable ending. 

Becoming ok with ourselves and what we have is a struggle. Our society does not teach to find comfort in acheivement but to always look for more.

OP: let her go and don't worry. She'll be fine, or not. Either way that's her life, don't live yours wondering if she made it. You should focus on your own goals, acheivements and life. 

Stay safe and hope those words find you in a better space.


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## EHuntIMF

Mtts said:


> She's baiting you into a conversation in which she can find some grip or traction. As soon as you respond in any way you feed into her ego. She gets satisfaction that you still take the time of day to talk to her, which is what she feeds on, attention.
> 
> In my opinion I would never respond to her again and ignore her completely, no responses of any kind. You should do this, not out of spite or hate but out of respect for yourself. You should not only respect your feelings, but the fact as a mortal body, we have limited time on this earth. Why spend that limited time worrying about someone who has an illness that will only make you sick as well.
> 
> She needs to figure out life on her own. She didn't before getting married to you and likely won't ever truly "get it." It's one of the pitfalls we all struggle with, coming to terms with our own circumstance and accepting our lives as what they are. The Holloywoodization of realtionships and the constant idea of "what if there is more out there for me." We often take for granted the acheivements we make in pursuit of new heights. Your wife is chasing a goal that has no true acheivable ending.
> 
> Becoming ok with ourselves and what we have is a struggle. Our society does not teach to find comfort in achievement but to always look for more.
> 
> OP: let her go and don't worry. She'll be fine, or not. Either way that's her life, don't live yours wondering if she made it. You should focus on your own goals, achievements and life.
> 
> Stay safe and hope those words find you in a better space.


I wish I would have read these before the weekend. Well, She contacted me on Sunday for my Bday, and I responded to her text and said, I appreciate it the birthday wishes and out of habit, I asked her "how is she doing?" Her basic response was that my birthday was hard for her and that she misses me. I responded that I hope her day gets better. She attempted to talk about what she was doing that day, but I didn't respond to her text. She was also complaining about being 6 years from 40 and wanting to jump off of a bridge.... What was that about?:scratchhead:

If she wanted to leave me so bad, and nothing has changed between us, why keep with the I miss you statements. Why not call me? 

I can't deal with her negativity right now....I have 99 problems but my ex isn't one


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## MattMatt

EHuntIMF said:


> I did not help her move or fix up her love nest. When she was packing up her stuff, I left the house to go work on my paper, knowing she would be gone when I came back. I have never been to her apartment and in fact I don't care to know where it is. After she left, I stopped checking on her and basically concentrated on me. She is a toxic person right now, and I do pray for her everyday, but I know that I can't deal with her right now. I am aware of my limitations and she is one of them.
> 
> Her parents already knew about the guy and I see them at church every week. Simply hello and how are you's nothing deep like it was before. I decided I was going to keep my hands clean of the whole situation. I didn't want to be near the fallout when the s--- hit the fan. I figure you would do exposure if you wanted the break the affair and get your wife back. I don't want her back, and I wanted to take the high road on this one. Was I wrong in my approach?
> 
> I did all that I could to be the best husband (NG speak) but my thinking is, "If she could do what she done when I was truly giving 100%, what happens later down the road, when she gets bored again?"
> 
> The risk is too great and honestly my attraction for her has gone away. Is that normal? I refuse to see her, and basically stay busy with the things I have going on. I have even made the decision to not see my dog again (Had him from 8 weeks old and he'll be 13 in Oct.) just because I knew she would be involved in that. He doesn't have too long to live, but I will always have the memories.
> 
> Another set of questions for TAM: Do I try to help her by suggesting books for her to read? Also because the exposure was wide spread, I heard that coming out of the fog would be harder when they come out of it on their own. Is that correct? In my mind, I just didn't want to be there anymore, when (or if) she hits rock bottom. I don't want to be around to see that, because I am honestly concerned that some NG tendencies will flare up again, and I would make the problem worse.
> 
> I have read, not just friends, co-dependency no more; NMMNG, MMSL, His Needs Her Needs, Women's Infidelity (pt 1 & 2 great book to explain to men how the hamster wheel works in a woman's mind and what her thinking process is.
> 
> I would have to say that the Women's Infidelity was a key book for me to let her go a lot sooner.....
> 
> I also have read that a woman who acts like this has no respect for her husband, and that respect is nearly impossible to get back. Would that be a correct assumption? I figure if the respect is never coming back, why be around? Just my thoughts, please help me with this one.... Also should I move this thread to another forum? How would I do that?


You will have to excuse some people on TAM. They tend to read things in posts that are not there.

Which is pretty much how your ex-wife to be operates. She saw things not as they were, she saw what she wanted to see.

The reality for her is she is living by herself with a fantasy lover who lives someplace else. 

Feel sympathy for her. But be very wary about letting her back in your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

EHuntIMF said:


> but I didn't respond to her text. She was also complaining about being 6 years from 40 and wanting to jump off of a bridge.... What was that about?:scratchhead:
> 
> If she wanted to leave me so bad, and nothing has changed between us, why keep with the I miss you statements. Why not call me?
> 
> I can't deal with her negativity right now....I have 99 problems but my ex isn't one


You got the passive suicide threat....smh. She does miss YOU, it doesn't mean she wants to be with you. I have a friend I miss, but he went down the wrong path. I have NO desire to interact with him at all. Doesn't mean I can't miss the good times we had. Same thing with my ex-fiance at the time. Decades later I don't "miss" her, but I did initially even though she cheated.

This is why you need to stop responding.


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## Mike11

EHuntIMF said:


> I wish I would have read these before the weekend. Well, She contacted me on Sunday for my Bday, and I responded to her text and said, I appreciate it the birthday wishes and out of habit, I asked her "how is she doing?" Her basic response was that my birthday was hard for her and that she misses me. I responded that I hope her day gets better. She attempted to talk about what she was doing that day, but I didn't respond to her text. She was also complaining about being 6 years from 40 and wanting to jump off of a bridge.... What was that about?:scratchhead:
> 
> If she wanted to leave me so bad, and nothing has changed between us, why keep with the I miss you statements. Why not call me?
> 
> I can't deal with her negativity right now....I have 99 problems but my ex isn't one


 
Classic Emotional Needs Leach 

She has her sex buddy for fun and you for emotional support 
not surprising at all 

She will try and make contact every time she feels she need her EN's met, any reaction from you will supply that, either good or bad, she needs to assuage her guilty conscious that eats away at her for doing what she is doing, she is trying to garnish sympathy by telling you how much miserable she is 
and bait you in to give her more attention and emotional fulfillment

Stay Indifferent, act like she is a stranger, don't supply her EN's, she fired you from that position


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## CEL

So E where you at? Last I heard you were separated are you looking at D? Hope this finds you well.


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## EHuntIMF

CEL said:


> So E where you at? Last I heard you were separated are you looking at D? Hope this finds you well.


I am ok, after reading about the emotional leach and assuaging her guilt I had a revelation about her. You guys were right, because I haven't heard from her since Sunday. No text, no call, no emails:banghead: I feel like an idiot, but all I can do is learn from it, ignore her calls and just file in Oct. My IC has advised me to write her a final letter, and I went through 4 drafts until coming to this 5th version. The 1st 4 versions seemed petty, but I realized I was writing from a place of hurt and anger....Need your opinions on it. Will be going over it with my counselor this weekend:

Here it is:

_Dear stbxw,
I hope that you are doing well. I know that I have not been communicating in the way that you would hope, but there is a reason for this. I want you to understand that I hold no malice or ill will against you for your decision to leave, but this was your decision. In the time that we have been apart, I have rediscovered myself. As your husband, myself worth was questioned… For instance, was I doing enough to please you? was I dependable? there when you needed me? did I make decisions based on our needs? and did I care for you as I should have?. In all of my thoughts process, I never once question were my needs being met, if you were caring for me as I needed to be cared for, or even if you loved me as your husband and had my best interest at heart. I have come to realize that you have taught me the true meaning of self-sacrifice, for I was willing to sacrifice my own happiness for yours. But I realized too late that even though I was willing to give this, it would not have been good enough. You showed me this. 
I want you to understand that I do not blame you for this relationship, we both made mistakes that have cost us. WE failed. I believe that my constantly giving into my own conscious where this relationship was concerned caused an unreasonable expectation on my time and efforts without them being returned. I understand now the severity of always giving in, when I know I should have questioned or denied. 
At this point in time I am rediscovering myself, and re-evaluating my standards and my choices. Please understand that our time together has past, and at this point I just want to heal from the emotions that were raw when you left. Because I have begun a journey of self-discovery, I am no longer the man you once knew. Nor am I willing to be again. My outlook on life has changed, and my philosophy as well. 
I can only hope that you understand that the time we have been apart has done me some good, I see clearer now, and I know that I am a work in progress. I feel that we should use this time apart to re-evaluate what is truly important to us. I know now that you made the right decision. You deserve someone that will treat you as you choose to be treated. 
I pray that you find exactly in life what you are looking for and I wish you nothing but happiness. 
Regards,_


Would this be too nice? Again the other letters seemed petty, but I wanted to leave with what's left of my dignity and not stoop to name calling....let me know Thanks


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## Shaggy

It's too much a victim letter. You basically say being married to other robbed you of happiness because she sucked the life out of you and was never happy no matter how much you did, now that she's left you, you are becoming alive again.

I think it's 100% accurate, but I wouldn't bother sending it to her.


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## BjornFree

Weak.


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## BK23

Come on, man! Definitely do not waste your time sending that. It's so saccharine, my teeth are aching. 

Just go dark. If it bothers you that she keeps contacting you, send something short and sweet:

Please do not contact me again. I have no interest in you as a friend, human being, or otherwise. Have a nice life.


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## aug

BK23 said:


> Come on, man! Definitely do not waste your time sending that. It's so saccharine, my teeth are aching.
> 
> Just go dark. If it bothers you that she keeps contacting you, send something short and sweet:
> 
> Please do not contact me again. I have no interest in you as a friend, human being, or otherwise. Have a nice life.



But dont send it till after she contacts you again. Otherwise leave her alone and move on with your life. Detach, detach, detach.


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## EHuntIMF

aug said:


> But dont send it till after she contacts you again. Otherwise leave her alone and move on with your life. Detach, detach, detach.


Ok, Letter #5 is a no go. Alright then, due I just go dark until the papers are served?


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## BjornFree

EHuntIMF said:


> Ok, Letter #5 is a no go. Alright then, due I just go dark until the papers are served?


That would be ideal. Any further communication between your stbxw and you should be through your lawyer.


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## Mike11

Too much trying to prove to her that you are changed, I would not send that, too weak, I would tough send a letter thanking her for the time you spent together, and hope that she would find her happiness type. 
Lose the explanations, lose the "look at me now I am changed man" type, this comes across as (no offense) very pathetic and not from a place of strength,
A letter from someone who is strong and emotionally un attached should be a short thank you letter for the time together, hope that she has a great life and hope that she will learn from her mistakes in future relationships, that is it no more than that 

Believe me the indifference will have an immense impact on her much more than the "look at me know, I am changed man, come back to me" type of a letter, and definitely a closure for you


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## BK23

Mike11 said:


> Too much trying to prove to her that you are changed, I would not send that, too weak, I would tough send a letter thanking her for the time you spent together, and hope that she would find her happiness type.
> Lose the explanations, lose the "look at me now I am changed man" type, this comes across as (no offense) very pathetic and not from a place of strength,
> A letter from someone who is strong and emotionally un attached should be a short thank you letter for the time together, hope that she has a great life and hope that she will learn from her mistakes in future relationships, that is it no more than that
> 
> Believe me the indifference will have an immense impact on her much more than the "look at me know, I am changed man, come back to me" type of a letter, and definitely a closure for you


How is a thank you letter to someone that treated you like sh!t a display of indifference?


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## Mike11

Thank her for the time the relationship were good, not for what she has done to him, there is a big difference 

if you think about it, Bashing someone trough a letter and hurling insults and accusations will definitely wont change this situation and will end up in complications and feeding her EN's again


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## beautiful_day

Well I thought it was beautiful ...


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## lordmayhem

Well Ethan, after you disappeared more than a year ago, you're back and things have gotten worse. Sorry to read that. You were doing so well.



EHuntIMF said:


> My IC has advised me to write her a final letter, and I went through 4 drafts until coming to this 5th version. The 1st 4 versions seemed petty, but I realized I was writing from a place of hurt and anger....Need your opinions on it. Will be going over it with my counselor this weekend:


I can understand your IC wanting you to have closure. But I don't think you should send it. Just writing it out will give you the sense of closure you need without the risks of renewed contact.

All she wants is to know is that you're still the backup plan. Detach! Detach! Detach! Live life again and stop pining away for her.


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## TDSC60

EHuntIMF said:


> Ok, Letter #5 is a no go. Alright then, due I just go dark until the papers are served?


YES! YES! AND YES!

Until and after the papers are served.

Do not contact her unless it is needed for the divorce.

Do not respond to her attempts to contact you.

Why do people find it so hard to just be quiet? 

She is not sorry. She does not miss you. She does not want you. She is toxic. 

You will never fully understand why this happened. She will not explain anything to you. She will not help you find peace. You are on your own and communication with her is detrimental to you.


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## Acabado

Closure letter?
Write down a f0ck you letter then burn it and then proceed to get laid (tons of time). 

Man, this woman tortured you for ages, right under your nose. F0ck her.


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## bfree

Here's a question...is there any stronger closure than being served divorce papers?

You really never get satisfactory closure when you divorce. The best you can hope for is apathy.


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## EHuntIMF

Having a rough time right now...... Have this overwhelming feeling to see how the stbx is doing.... why? IDK

I guess I am missing her, but there is a part of me that keeps reminding me of what had happen to us and how I have not seen any action from her showing any real remorse. Just a bunch of words.... Just a low time right now I guess. 

has anyone else gone through periods like this where you miss the ex, even though they have done this kind of wrong to you? How do you deal with it? Is there any point to break NC and talk with them? Just need some insight, my vision is a bit cloudy right now....


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## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife is having an EA and sending Pics....Please Help!*



EHuntIMF said:


> Having a rough time right now...... Have this overwhelming feeling to see how the stbx is doing.... why? IDK
> 
> I guess I am missing her, but there is a part of me that keeps reminding me of what had happen to us and how I have not seen any action from her showing any real remorse. Just a bunch of words.... Just a low time right now I guess.
> 
> has anyone else gone through periods like this where you miss the ex, even though they have done this kind of wrong to you? How do you deal with it? Is there any point to break NC and talk with them? Just need some insight, my vision is a bit cloudy right now....


Yup, I think it's normal. The way I handled it was to get passed out drunk every night for a month. The only good that came out of that was I developed a high tolerance for alcohol. Eventually some friends started dragging me out every night. That helped a little except I kept drinking but this time in bars and clubs. I suggest you try something a little less destructive. Do you have any hobbies that you can devour more time to? Anything you've always wanted to try but never had the time?


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## badbane

My letter to her would go something like.

I realized during our time apart that I made mistakes. MY first mistake was believing that you cared for me, loved me, or that you were not supremely selfish. you have a video game addiction, you have cheated on me emotionally, and I just gave you a free pass. Well I am sorry for that because I now realize that you are helpless. I don't need someone who can't be faithful, will play video games nonstop, and will get upset with me when I try to help you. I am getting rid of the dead weight in my life I hope you enjoy reaching that level cap. Oh I checked your WOW account used my credit card. I just cancel it so I hope you enjoy starting over. Cause I sure will.


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## JustAnotherMan

EHuntIMF said:


> Having a rough time right now...... Have this overwhelming feeling to see how the stbx is doing.... why? IDK
> 
> I guess I am missing her, but there is a part of me that keeps reminding me of what had happen to us and how I have not seen any action from her showing any real remorse. Just a bunch of words.... Just a low time right now I guess.
> 
> has anyone else gone through periods like this where you miss the ex, even though they have done this kind of wrong to you? How do you deal with it? Is there any point to break NC and talk with them? Just need some insight, my vision is a bit cloudy right now....


These feelings ... the missing her... are the result of her contacting you and you responding in the past month. That is why no contact is so important. She sent you a bunch of non remorseful words. I don't think I saw an appology in there anywhere.

I understand as a Christian man you have certain desires to keep to the vows. You said to her that you would not be chasing her. Perfect as it should be, that she would have to chase, remorsefully request your possible consideration for R if there was any chance. She has not done any of that. She would have to show that she has changed who she is before you let her back in your life. She isn't trying....you shouldn't chase her by senting emails or any contact at all.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

If you break NC and she's still not remorsful, you'll be feeling even worse than you do now...


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## EHuntIMF

I Just realized I have less than 30 days until it will be officially a year of separation and I will be able to file for divorce. 2 questions: 1) How do I move this thread to the going through divorce/separation forum? 2) How should I go about having her served? At work seems petty at this point.....Do I do it in person or just at her apartment? Thanks for your help


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## BK23

EHuntIMF said:


> I Just realized I have less than 30 days until it will be officially a year of separation and I will be able to file for divorce. 2 questions: 1) How do I move this thread to the going through divorce/separation forum? 2) How should I go about having her served? At work seems petty at this point.....Do I do it in person or just at her apartment? Thanks for your help


Do you have a lawyer? They should know good process servers. I personally use MLQ in my practice. They're national, generally do a solid job.


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## Blacksmith01

Sorry for your pain but I am so glad that I found this thread tonight. It pulled me out of my funk.


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## Nucking Futs

EHuntIMF said:


> I Just realized I have less than 30 days until it will be officially a year of separation and I will be able to file for divorce. 2 questions: 1) How do I move this thread to the going through divorce/separation forum?* 2) How should I go about having her served? At work seems petty at this point.....Do I do it in person or just at her apartment? Thanks for your help*


Don't make that call yourself. Either let your attorney handle it or if your filing yourself hire a process server and give them all her contact info, let them decide where and when to serve her.


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## lordmayhem

Nucking Futs said:


> Don't make that call yourself. Either let your attorney handle it or if your filing yourself hire a process server and give them all her contact info, let them decide where and when to serve her.


:iagree:

Follow the above advice Ethan. *ANY* contact with her is just going to set you back emotionally. Let the lawyers and/or court do it for you.


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## Robert22205

If you live in a no fault divorce state, why is it necessary to collect evidence.
Just divorce her.


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