# Would you Buy or Rent?



## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

Would you buy a house or condo or rent an apartment? 
Please back up the reasons behind which live style is better.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In a fluid situation where cash flow is king, buying is not a good idea.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> Would you buy a house or condo or rent an apartment?
> Please back up the reasons behind which live style is better.


This is extremely situation / location / finance / future plan dependent. 

It is my preference to own. House / duplex / apartment complex. No condos. 

I have and would rent again under the right circumstances. (Ie my finances required it, or I didn't plan to stay in a location for a minimum of 2 years, preferable 4+)

Home ownership at least gives you an opportunity to get back some of your "rent" spent each month. Eventually you won't have any rent at all, if you can avoid the constant upgrading that is so common in our society. Home ownership offers you an incentive to be part of the community you live in. Having a home of your own means you set the rules, rather than your landlord (unless you live in a HOA, which I avoid lol)

There are a lot of advantages to renting as well. Less responsibility and lower exposure to risk, for example.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> This is extremely situation / location / finance / future plan dependent.
> 
> *It is my preference to own. House / duplex / apartment complex. No condos. *
> 
> ...


Why no condos?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It's all contingent upon your cash flow situation!

In the midst of my early senior years, renting seems to offer me far more viable options! 

But my current housing is totally provided by my employer, the ranch owner and proprietor!*


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I would say it depends on how long you plan on living there. Or that town even.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

You and son?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

I've always bought. Paid for newer and better houses with the equity gained in the older house. Now have 15 acres, a 4500 sf home, two barns and a workshop/garage for the cars and bikes. Never could have done it if I'd started out renting.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> Would you buy a house or condo or rent an apartment?
> Please back up the reasons behind which live style is better.


Could you please explain the reasoning behind your question?


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## 2inthemorning (Dec 12, 2016)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> Would you buy a house or condo or rent an apartment?
> Please back up the reasons behind which live style is better.


I dont know a whole lot about finances but i can say one thing for sure. rent is pretty much dead money. theres no investment no future in that, you pay or lease for some time and when the times up thats it, the moneys gone and you have to redo the process. i think you should give some more info so people can understand your situation better and give you more constructive advice. personally if you can afford it purchasing is better, you have a place you can call your own and its yours, you can sell or lease if you want a change.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Way too many variables. Usually if you have the capital for a down payment and plan to stay several years, buying is a better bet financially.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Buy a townhouse with reasonable HOA fees. No yard to maintain or snow removal. Usually covers roof and all exterior maintenance. Pool and gym at most places.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Could you please explain the reasoning behind your question?


I'm trying to educate myself in the process of living on my own. This is a small question for a big answer.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> I'm trying to educate myself in the process of living on my own. This is a small question for a big answer.


I was wondering if this belonged here or in off topic.

Based on your answer, I think it belongs where it is.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

How old is your boy?

Will he keep pets? If so, would a garden/yard be required for them?


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> How old is your boy?
> 
> Will he keep pets? If so, would a garden/yard be required for them?


I have a teenager in high school and we own a dog.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> I have a teenager in high school and we own a dog.


Then depending on the size of the dog, a yard would be a good idea.

Also, check out the rules and regulations regarding pet ownership before you make a commitment.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Our dream/ goal starting out was always to own a house in the country with some land/ privacy, raise our family there.. probably die there....

So we rented the cheapest place we could-while saving $$ for a down payment... when we had to leave (owner selling) we bought a house we knew we could sell & make a profit (wasn't our dream house- not enough land, too close to the road)... we put some money into that, worked on it for 2 yrs, then turned around & sold it, making a profit... then bought the house of our dreams (1st 2 houses were the 1st 7 yrs of our marriage)... 

For a time I was regretting buying the 2nd house.. but it all worked out very nicely,.. 

In anything you do Real Estate wise... reasonably consider the cost / affordability... the investment -if there is one... the ability to sell & at least make a profit - if you buy something you know you'll want to sell down the road...

Rent vs. buy calculator

Rent vs Buy


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> Why no condos?


Just personal preference. IMO condos combine the worst aspects of ownership and renting. IME you have to pay monthly fees for "common areas", you have neighbors who can do things to get you evicted / force you to sell, you have very limited "rights" to what you own. It's like living in an apartment complex, but you have to take care of everything, and all of the landlord rules still apply. 

If I own, I want to own fee simple. Where I control my property. Same reason I don't like HOAs--which can be nice if you don't mind all the rules. They can certainly help keep your neighborhood clean and also get rid of people who don't take care of their property, so it's not all bad, just not what I like.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I have used the HOA in my (pricey) neighborhood a few times as a remedy for idiot or inconsiderate neighbors. Round 3 also involved the city engineering department and the county drainage commissioner. 

Believe me, HOA's aren't as evil as people think. But on a more modest property they may not be as useful or worthwhile.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> Would you buy a house or condo or rent an apartment?
> Please back up the reasons behind which live style is better.


I personally believe buying is the best option..under the following premise:

1. Purchase a home/house. Condo are harder to sell down the road(from my experience)
2. The tax benefits if you own the home go to you and not the person you are renting from. Why pay someone else's mortgage when you can pay your own plus get a write off. 
3. Plan to live in the home for at least 5 years or more so there will be a profit of some sort when time to sell comes around.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

john117 said:


> I have used the HOA in my (pricey) neighborhood a few times as a remedy for idiot or inconsiderate neighbors. Round 3 also involved the city engineering department and the county drainage commissioner.
> 
> Believe me, HOA's aren't as evil as people think. But on a more modest property they may not be as useful or worthwhile.


HOA are necessary IMO. I have spent a lot of money on a home/property. It is an investment. If surrounding neighbors look like the Clampets with Ford's as yard art the value of my property diminishes. Not to mention the eyesore. 

My last neighbor in a non HOA hood would place used tires in any part of his fence that rotted through. Not what I call great for curb appeal for my home at time of selling.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Renting is better while you are getting back on your feet during a transition. After you've got your finances figured out then it is the time to decide if you can afford to buy and whether you want to be a home owner. 

After I got divorced I cut every unnecessary thing from my budget and lived cheaply for the first year, and at the same time I kept a monthly budget on Excel so I could track things. This way I got a good handle on what things cost and what bills to expect at different times of the year. Then I felt comfortable adding things back in because I had a good understanding of my finances.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> Just personal preference. IMO condos combine the worst aspects of ownership and renting. IME you have to pay monthly fees for "common areas", you have neighbors who can do things to get you evicted / force you to sell, you have very limited "rights" to what you own. It's like living in an apartment complex, but you have to take care of everything, and all of the landlord rules still apply.
> 
> If I own, I want to own fee simple. Where I control my property. Same reason I don't like HOAs--which can be nice if you don't mind all the rules. They can certainly help keep your neighborhood clean and also get rid of people who don't take care of their property, so it's not all bad, just not what I like.


^^^^good stuff and agree in part. Single family home with some property. HOA have their place. The HOA can not throw people off their properties. Through the courts if it gets that far, any corrective actions will be ordered as a result of acknowledged HOA covenants all owners sign. Generally, there are no issue that get beyond a simple letter from the HOA. As far as rules, the rules are common sense. Pull you cans in the day of pick up. Cut your grass. Fences can be a certain height, etc. Simple stuff that most home owners do anyway. Some neighborhoods where anything goes you get just that....anything.

Perspective neighborhoods, driver through them every day for a week. You will get a feel for what it is like.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> ^^^^good stuff and agree in part. Single family home with some property. HOA have their place. The HOA can not throw people off their properties. Through the courts if it gets that far, any corrective actions will be ordered as a result of acknowledged HOA covenants all owners sign. Generally, there are no issue that get beyond a simple letter from the HOA. As far as rules, the rules are common sense. Pull you cans in the day of pick up. Cut your grass. Fences can be a certain height, etc. Simple stuff that most home owners do anyway. Some neighborhoods where anything goes you get just that....anything.
> 
> Perspective neighborhoods, driver through them every day for a week. You will get a feel for what it is like.


You can be forced to sell in a lot of jurisdictions and in a lot of HOAs. There is a process though, and opportunity for you to either quit whatever activity you're engaging in, or to remediate the problems they want fixed. 

But like I said, they have their value.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

If you plan to stay in the area long term, there are far more benefits to owning. The biggest of those is that you will benefit from the appreciation of the property and that after a while, while the upfront costs and might be higher, instead of handing money to a landlord, the property is in your name and you pay down the amount you owe with each mortgage payment. You can also deduct the amount of interest you pay on your mortgage on your taxes. This can be substantial. Also there is always that point far down the road when you finally pay off the mortgage and is all your's. No one can take it away from you then. 

The only disadvantage are expenses like property taxes and HOA fees if you buy a condo. I think the advantages outweigh these though.


Renting might be a better choice short term if you can find a lease term that fits your purpose.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> You can be forced to sell in a lot of jurisdictions and in a lot of HOAs. There is a process though, and opportunity for you to either quit whatever activity you're engaging in, or to remediate the problems they want fixed.
> 
> But like I said, they have their value.


In our particular neighborhood the covenant reads the removal of any tenant that is renting from a home owner. There is no verbiage in removal of a home owner for any reason. I can only imagine the litigation for that!!! By in large, most home owners full common sense rules and generally the neighborhood is nice living. At least in my experience.

As I get older I appreciate the HOA a bit more. Hell...I'm the accounting officer for ours. Hahahaha!


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> Just personal preference. IMO condos combine the worst aspects of ownership and renting. IME you have to pay monthly fees for "common areas", you have neighbors who can do things to get you evicted / force you to sell, you have very limited "rights" to what you own. It's like living in an apartment complex, but you have to take care of everything, and all of the landlord rules still apply.
> 
> If I own, I want to own fee simple. Where I control my property. Same reason I don't like HOAs--which can be nice if you don't mind all the rules. They can certainly help keep your neighborhood clean and also get rid of people who don't take care of their property, so it's not all bad, just not what I like.


Agree, HOA fees are just like paying rent, they don't really bye you anything extra and seems like just paying rent for no reason. I was thinking for awhile about a condo on the ocean but the ridiculous HOA fees made it an unwise investment.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> In our particular neighborhood the covenant reads the removal of any tenant that is renting from a home owner. There is no verbiage in removal of a home owner for any reason. I can only imagine the litigation for that!!! By in large, most home owners full common sense rules and generally the neighborhood is nice living. At least in my experience.
> 
> As I get older I appreciate the HOA a bit more. Hell...I'm the accounting officer for ours. Hahahaha!


Usually, it's done through fees / fines. Do you have any rules like "no chipped paint" or "no basketball hoops in driveways" "no parking on the street" "no leaves / grass clippings in the gutter" etc? What happens is if you become a problem homeowner, who won't stop one of these, they can usually assess fines, etc and then when you don't pay them, go to court, foreclose, and now you're out a home. It's a long process, not super fast. Similar with condos, and noise complaints. (depending on the agreement) 

Of course a lot of properties have deed / subdivision restrictions that form the function of a HOA, without the dues / community board, etc. My subdivision, for example, is restricted such that all owners may not own any pitt bulls, rotweilers, or dogs mixed with such breeds, and all secondary structures (eg sheds or detached garages) must have a roof that matches color and type with the roof of the residence. To break such rules could result in the city taking the place of an HOA, and fining / suing you to change it, and if you refuse / fail / cannot afford it, they can force you to sell.

(which reminds me, we can't have "white picket fences" in our front yards...wtf?)


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

I also want to say that I don't view homeownership as an "investment" in the financial sense. This is a personal view--and the National Association of Realtors (not to mention local board) would hang me as a heretic if I said this where they could tell who I was, as I'm a member. 

Most people won't make much if any money on their home when they sell it, after you figure Realtor Commission, closing fees, etc. Because of this, I view homeownership as more of a hedge, or an insurance policy. If you own it free and clear, then you always have a place to fall back to if times are tough or things go wrong. It's about saving money, not making money, to me. If I can make money when I sell it, great. (for example, I've really considered adding a 2 car detached garage, because it would almost double my home value in my market, but I won't bother to do so until either I feel I need one or I am ready to sell.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Agree, HOA fees are just like paying rent, they don't really bye you anything extra and seems like just paying rent for no reason. I was thinking for awhile about a condo on the ocean but the ridiculous HOA fees made it an unwise investment.


HOA fees are not paying rent. The HOA fees have a purpose. In my particular neighborhood the fees pay for snow removal and property upkeep of the common area. It also addresses any beautification or damages on common areas. The driveways to some homes in my hood have a road to access these homes. The roads are owned by the HOA. If they need repair(pot hole) the HOA sees to the repairs. Plus, we hold a community party that the HOA pays for everything. Our fee is $50/month. Well worthing it when there is 10 plus inches of snow on your drive and the beemer is buried. LOL 

Also, condo HOA usually covers insurance for the structure of the building thus the owner not having to carry their own home owners insurance. Sometimes water is covered as well. Common area and snow removal is covered. The HOA really needs to justify the costs. Potential owners agree with the cost or walk.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I have always owned, except during the first year or two of my first marriage, when I was still in grad school. I have always done very well when I sold those 6 or 7 houses, even if I sold after just two or three years, making from 20% to 70% profit, and taking a tax deduction for mortgage interest and property taxes. Only my current house is in negative territory, but I expect that will eventually change - I do plan to live here indefinitely. If I do move again, I may rent. I'll be retired then, and may want to experience a variety of places. Even then, I may keep my current house to use as a home base. and tax home.

Obviously, a lot depend on where you want to rent/buy. If the economy is good and growing, you will usually do better buying, and people will be attracted to the area. Otherwise, you may do better renting. Considerations such as time horizon, kids, pets, and any activities you wish to conduct on the property will be important.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> HOA fees are not paying rent. The HOA fees have a purpose. In my particular neighborhood the fees pay for snow removal and property upkeep of the common area. It also addresses any beautification or damages on common areas. The driveways to some homes in my hood have a road to access these homes. The roads are owned by the HOA. If they need repair(pot hole) the HOA sees to the repairs. Plus, we hold a community party that the HOA pays for everything. Our fee is $50/month. Well worthing it when there is 10 plus inches of snow on your drive and the beemer is buried. LOL
> 
> Also, condo HOA usually covers insurance for the structure of the building thus the owner not having to carry their own home owners insurance. Sometimes water is covered as well. Common area and snow removal is covered. The HOA really needs to justify the costs. Potential owners agree with the cost or walk.


Right but they seem like paying rent. Expenses for little return. In your case the small fee may be worthwhile but in most cases when they are hundreds of dollars you really don't get alot of return for the money payed out.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> Most people won't make much if any money on their home when they sell it, after you figure Realtor Commission, closing fees, etc. Because of this, I view homeownership as more of a hedge, or an insurance policy. If you own it free and clear, then you always have a place to fall back to if times are tough or things go wrong. It's about saving money, not making money, to me. If I can make money when I sell it, great. (for example, I've really considered adding a 2 car detached garage, because it would almost double my home value in my market, but I won't bother to do so until either I feel I need one or I am ready to sell.


So why do people flip houses then? Normally, you do make money went you sell.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Right but they seem like paying rent. Expenses for little return. In your case the small fee may be worthwhile but in most cases when they are hundreds of dollars you really don't get alot of return for the money payed out.


That is why it is best to see just what you are getting for $$$. Generally the cost is justified. Specifically if there is a community pool involved. Very expensive to keep and staff. Snow removal is quite expensive. If community roads need repair that is also costly. 

In my one HOA run community the fee covered the outside of the structure. Anything requiring repair or replacement was at the HOA expense. Think a new roof or siding that requires replacement from wind damage. Or in my case, the window casing rotting. Replaced by the HOA.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> I also want to say that I don't view homeownership as an "investment" in the financial sense. This is a personal view--and the National Association of Realtors (not to mention local board) would hang me as a heretic if I said this where they could tell who I was, as I'm a member.
> 
> Most people won't make much if any money on their home when they sell it, after you figure Realtor Commission, closing fees, etc. Because of this, I view homeownership as more of a hedge, or an insurance policy. If you own it free and clear, then you always have a place to fall back to if times are tough or things go wrong. It's about saving money, not making money, to me. If I can make money when I sell it, great. (for example, I've really considered adding a 2 car detached garage, because it would almost double my home value in my market, but I won't bother to do so until either I feel I need one or I am ready to sell.


Pay the principal down and money will be made. Anyway, stay in the home for 5 plus years and some profit will be made...unless of course the market for housing takes a dump like 2008 year of the bubble. By and large buying a home will be an investment with associated profit when sold.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> That is why it is best to see just what you are getting for $$$. Generally the cost is justified. Specifically if there is a community pool involved. Very expensive to keep and staff. Snow removal is quite expensive. If community roads need repair that is also costly.
> 
> In my one HOA run community the fee covered the outside of the structure. Anything requiring repair or replacement was at the HOA expense. Think a new roof or siding that requires replacement from wind damage. Or in my case, the window casing rotting. Replaced by the HOA.


These look like relatively good deals. In my experience you get little to nothing for a large monthly expense. The first place we had was a condo with a $250 HOA/month. All the fee covered was mowing your postage stamp sized front lawn and common area and snow removal. There were no parking spots and the snow removal only covered the 20 foot walkway from your front door to the sidewalk. This fee was definitely not worth what you paid. HOAs can be $1300 to $2000/month for beachfront property and again you get relatively nothing, no pool, no common areas just being able to rent to others.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> These look like relatively good deals. In my experience you get little to nothing for a large monthly expense. The first place we had was a condo with a $250 HOA/month. All the fee covered was mowing your postage stamp sized front lawn and common area and snow removal. There were no parking spots and the snow removal only covered the 20 foot walkway from your front door to the sidewalk. This fee was definitely not worth what you paid. HOAs can be $1300 to $2000/month for beachfront property and again you get relatively nothing, no pool, no common areas just being able to rent to others.


Oh hell no. I would have walked at that $250.00/month HOA fee. How was that fee justified? Insurance? Snow removal...not.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> Oh hell no. I would have walked at that $250.00/month HOA fee. How was that fee justified? Insurance? Snow removal...not.


I was trying to figure that out for the longest time, finally it didn't make sense to me anymore so we moved.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> So why do people flip houses then? Normally, you do make money went you sell.


Most people who flip houses buy them as a business venture. Most homeowners aren't buying their home as a business venture. Two completely different mindsets. 

Don't get me wrong, I make my living in RE, and I absolutely believe there's a great living to be made in it. But I don't think most people go into their personal residence as an investment, where they are expecting to get a good return on the money put in, and I'm not even sure they should. They call it an investment, the way people call their car an "investment". It's a tool. It serves a function. Doesn't mean you can't make money buying and selling cars either, but most people would be best off not viewing their personal automobile as an "investment" as that is not what they bought it for.

ETA: I want to reiterate that what I am saying is heresy.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Kivlor said:


> Most people who flip houses buy them as a business venture. Most homeowners aren't buying their home as a business venture. Two completely different mindsets.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I make my living in RE, and I absolutely believe there's a great living to be made in it. But I don't think most people go into their personal residence as an investment, where they are expecting to get a good return on the money put in, and I'm not even sure they should. They call it an investment, the way people call their car an "investment". It's a tool. It serves a function. Doesn't mean you can't make money buying and selling cars either, but most people would be best off not viewing their personal automobile as an "investment" as that is not what they bought it for.
> 
> ETA: I want to reiterate that what I am saying is heresy.


A home is an investment. Generally speaking the home appreciates in value. The value in itself can be used in retirement. For instance, selling the home for something more economical. Possibly paying for the new smaller retirement home outright. The largest payment anyone pays per month is a mortgage. If you take that out of it the retirement picture retirement can be care free for the most part. Further, one can take a equity loan for travel during retirement, etc. When the home owner passes the sale of the home will pay what is left on the loan. Does it reduce inheritance to kids? Yes but they will get over it. The end game to retirement is owning a home outright. No payments other then property tax. 

CARS are never an investment. A car depreciates the minute you sign for it. I know of no one who calls their car an investment. Further, I own a classic car and I did not purchase as in investment. I'll never get out of it what I put into it. It is a hobby of mine. I don't care what it sells for when I hit the extended stay at the Dirt Bed Hotel.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> I was trying to figure that out for the longest time, finally it didn't make sense to me anymore so we moved.


Yeah, sounds like a high hard one monthly. Screw that....


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Whether a condo / town house / HOA makes sense depends on you situation. 

I'm in a HOA and its wonderful for me. When something goes wrong with the exterior, I send an email, and it gets fixed. It woudl be cheaper to do it my self, but I a much more limited by time than by money, so I'm happy to spend more to have other people deal with this. 

Other people may be in a different situation with respect to time and money.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> I'm trying to educate myself in the process of living on my own. This is a small question for a big answer.


*RENT!*

You buy a house because this is the one your woman has chosen and she wants to get in there and start making babies all up in it. If she can't choose the house and make it her own, then she will be very unhappy, probably downright miserable. 

So as a man, never buy a house for yourself. Be fluid, flexible, and ready to seize the opportunity when you get a woman excited and she excites you!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

The older I get, the more I miss renting. I'm dubious of the long-term profit promises of home ownership. Invest that downpayment wisely and subtract out the cost of RE commissions, interest and all the other costs of homeownership and I believe that many are lucky to end up even when they sell. Time the market wrong and you'll be underwater for a long time.

Even if I would come out ahead financially, I can make more money but I can't make more time. The time I spend on maintenance, grounds keeping, repairs and improvements is significant. My time is becoming increasingly important to me. I'd much rather spend the 2 hours every Saturday taking my daughter swimming than working on the lawn. I could pay someone to do it, but that's hundreds of dollars a month that will need to come out of the profit projection.

My taxes go up each and every year. They have more than doubled in the last 10 years. More things that negatively impact the promised profit. I also never saw these giant tax benefits. I do get more money back with the deductions, but it is only a fraction of the interest I actually pay. 

Repairs can be quite painful. My boiler needed to be replaced 2 years after buying this place. Cost me 7 grand. When the boiler ran dry and cracked in my last apartment, it required a phone call to the landlord. That's it. 

I now pay separately for things that were included in the rent before like electricity, heat and hot water. This has to be taken into account when comparing living costs.

I miss calling the landlord to get something fixed, then hopping on a motorcycle and not having to think about it again. I also miss being able to change the scenery fairly easily if I feel like it. 30 days notice once the first year lease is up. I tended to stay in an apartment for 4 years or more, but knowing the barriers to exit were low was a stress reliever. 

The decision is complicated and your needs, wants and situation will dictate the right decision. I bought into the dream of homeownership, but now that I've seen both sides I would gladly give up some financial gain for a more carefree and flexible lifestyle. Assuming there actually is a financial sacrifice.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

I thought I'd come back to muse a little more about the way that I approached my home...

I spent the time learning the market--which was easier for me than some, as I'm a licensed RE salesman, and a member of the local board of Realtors, so I have access to all of their sales data. I looked at crime. I looked at RE taxes. I looked at schools--because although I don't have kids, it's important in a sale. I looked only at houses that had been on the market for a while--at least 9 months--because the seller was likely starting to want out and be willing to make a deal. I tried to ID people who were in financial trouble, or needing to get out of the market for one reason or another--another difficulty. Foreclosures were a prime target (although this wasn't a foreclosure). 

I wanted to be sure that I could get in for cheap, and even if I had to drop some $$$ in a major repair, I'd be sitting great. I picked the least attractive home, in the "best" school system, in a very desirable, middle income neighborhood, where most of the people are a little older. I only looked at homes that could keep a mortgage at the threshhold that if I lost everything tomorrow and had to work factory, construction, or some other low-wage, low-skill work that I won't lose my home. (I am very risk averse) 

I walked the neighborhoods I liked in the morning, afternoon, and evening at least once and I met the neighbors, and asked questions, so that I could pick a place with people I'd get along with. 

My home is my fortress. I can always retreat here if things go wrong. I have no intention of selling it, unless 1 of 4 things happens: A) I am forced to move to another state / region. B) I end up building a family that outgrows the 1400 SF I have C) Someone makes me an offer I can't refuse or D) I find another, even better deal that I can't pass up. 

To be clear, I'm not saying this is THE WAY to buy a house, but just providing a different perspective...


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## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

Kivlor said:


> Usually, it's done through fees / fines. Do you have any rules like "no chipped paint" or "no basketball hoops in driveways" "no parking on the street" "no leaves / grass clippings in the gutter" etc? What happens is if you become a problem homeowner, who won't stop one of these, they can usually assess fines, etc and then when you don't pay them, go to court, foreclose, and now you're out a home. It's a long process, not super fast. Similar with condos, and noise complaints. (depending on the agreement)
> 
> Of course a lot of properties have deed / subdivision restrictions that form the function of a HOA, without the dues / community board, etc. My subdivision, for example, is restricted such that all owners may not own any pitt bulls, rotweilers, or dogs mixed with such breeds, and all secondary structures (eg sheds or detached garages) must have a roof that matches color and type with the roof of the residence. To break such rules could result in the city taking the place of an HOA, and fining / suing you to change it, and if you refuse / fail / cannot afford it, they can force you to sell.
> 
> (which reminds me, we can't have "white picket fences" in our front yards...wtf?)


Holy Moly!! :surprise: Our HOA is so relaxed that we don't know we have one. If people were to paint their house flourescent pink, something would be said. Dogs/cats running around the neighborhood is not allowed. If someone had clunkers sitting in their driveway, that would not be allowed. If one was to build in our neighborhood, the minimum square footage is 2500 sqft and not be a mobile home. Other than that, our HOA leaves everyone alone - we just have to pay dues. 

I couldn't live in such a strict HOA that you have Kivlor!


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Yes said:


> Holy Moly!! :surprise: Our HOA is so relaxed that we don't know we have one. If people were to paint their house flourescent pink, something would be said. Dogs/cats running around the neighborhood is not allowed. If someone had clunkers sitting in their driveway, that would not be allowed. If one was to build in our neighborhood, the minimum square footage is 2500 sqft and not be a mobile home. Other than that, our HOA leaves everyone alone - we just have to pay dues.
> 
> I couldn't live in such a strict HOA that you have Kivlor!


The kicker is that I'm not in an HOA. I'm in a "city". The town has subdivision requirements, and when the subdivision was platted, these were recorded at the county courthouse onto the deeds / title-work of all the properties in the subdivision. These aren't HOA enforced, they're city enforced. (There's technically a "Subdivision Authority" but it is long defunct, and the City is the arbiter of such things now)

The houses directly behind my backyard are in a HOA. Their rules are much more strict. The lawns must be green. They can be no shorter than X or longer than Y. No "junk" on the porch / in the yard unattended (ie kids toys) .. tons of stuff.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

In the market I live in (Aussie) ownership is the best way to go for our family. The house prices just keep going up and many people will never get in. I have made a lot of money out of real estate and would always buy instead of renting, the tax advantages and capital gains are impressive here. 
But we are in an extremely fortunate position where we own our home outright, on a big income and have a very solid financial basis. I have investment properties for all 3 of my kids which I will give to them when they are a bit older, many in their generation will really struggle as even a basic 2 bedroom dogbox within 50 k's of the city costs $700k plus. To live in a detached house costs over $1mil now, crazy.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

If I were to find myself single I would rent an apartment. Why? I would have to worry about any maintenance, no roofs to replace, no grass cutting, no property taxes to have to budget for, no worries about the real estate market if I wanted to up and move. 
Instead of paying interest on a mortgage I could funnel the $$ into retirement savings/investments. 
There are pros and cons no matter which way you choose to go. It boils down to personal preference. 
As for condos? You're just buying an apartment and you still have to follow someone else's rules and upkeep is on your own dime. Definitely not worth the aggravation. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

Mr.StrongMan said:


> Would you buy a house or condo or rent an apartment?
> Please back up the reasons behind which live style is better.


Rent, all the way!

1) Housing bubble from a few years back. It will happen again
2) A lot easier to get up and go if you rent
3) renting - not responsible for indoor or outdoor maintenance
4) fewer taxes if you rent


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

zookeeper said:


> The older I get, the more I miss renting. I'm dubious of the long-term profit promises of home ownership. Invest that downpayment wisely and subtract out the cost of RE commissions, interest and all the other costs of homeownership and I believe that many are lucky to end up even when they sell. Time the market wrong and you'll be underwater for a long time.
> 
> Even if I would come out ahead financially, I can make more money but I can't make more time. The time I spend on maintenance, grounds keeping, repairs and improvements is significant. My time is becoming increasingly important to me. I'd much rather spend the 2 hours every Saturday taking my daughter swimming than working on the lawn. I could pay someone to do it, but that's hundreds of dollars a month that will need to come out of the profit projection.
> 
> ...


Renting will have it's diminishing returns as you age. I understand the free time to do what you want but honestly as you get into retirement the rent still continues. The ideal situation is to own where you live free and clear. Continuing to pay rent on a "fixed" income makes little sense to me. Owning the home outright and using the fixed income to travel or do what you feel makes better sense to me. Further, pay someone to cut the lawn. If the boiler goes get a small home equity loan to pay for replacement. Boilers do not blow every year. Grass needs to be cut once a week but more than likely once every two weeks. By and large no matter where you live there will always be cleaning required. The land lord will not vacuum your apartment. Ultimately it is not about financial gain, it is about being able to live free of as many bills as possible. Rent/mortgage being the highest expense monthly. However, working on being mortgage free is you best bet. Further, if married, is it fair(no matter who kicks off first) to leave the other possibly homeless? I much prefer to leave my W a home when I take my last.


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## Jayg14 (May 23, 2011)

Yeswecan said:


> Renting will have it's diminishing returns as you age. I understand the free time to do what you want but honestly as you get into retirement the rent still continues. The ideal situation is to own where you live free and clear. Continuing to pay rent on a "fixed" income makes little sense to me. Owning the home outright and using the fixed income to travel or do what you feel makes better sense to me. Further, pay someone to cut the lawn. If the boiler goes get a small home equity loan to pay for replacement. Boilers do not blow every year. Grass needs to be cut once a week but more than likely once every two weeks. By and large no matter where you live there will always be cleaning required. The land lord will not vacuum your apartment. Ultimately it is not about financial gain, it is about being able to live free of as many bills as possible. Rent/mortgage being the highest expense monthly. However, working on being mortgage free is you best bet. Further, if married, is it fair(no matter who kicks off first) to leave the other possibly homeless? I much prefer to leave my W a home when I take my last.


You're right about this part. However, for those who are divorced and have child support and love their job, but aren't paid a ton due to the industry, renting is the best you're going to get. There's no way I can afford a house on my own, and I doubt I'll ever live with a partner again (not due to lack of self-confidence, as some suggest, but rather preference).


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Jayg14 said:


> You're right about this part. However, for those who are divorced and have child support and love their job, but aren't paid a ton due to the industry, renting is the best you're going to get. There's no way I can afford a house on my own, and I doubt I'll ever live with a partner again (not due to lack of self-confidence, as some suggest, but rather preference).


Certainly everyone has a different situation. No doubt!


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I bought our first home when I was 21 and have bought 8 more after that, not all at once. I have learned that a house can be a very good investment. I sold every home for a very nice profit. My last home cost me $260,000 and 8 years later I sold it for $385,000 during the housing depression. If I had sold it one year earlier, I would have got $500,000 for it. I have made more money selling my homes than from any other investment I have made. Best part is that I no longer have to ask my landlord for more heat or be told to keep the noise level down or put up with noisy neighbors.

With every move I used the profit for fun and most of it to use as a down payment for a nicer or bigger house. My last home was a two story, 4 bedroom modern Colonial next to a farm. We had deer and all sorts of animals walking around and there were only 6 homes on the block. It was the nicest home we owned but not the fanciest. My current home is a villa with a 6 foot stucco wall all around it. In the 6 years I have lived here, its value has risen by $90K due to limited availability of my model.

When you own your own home and am not a gypsy like I am, your mortgage will be paid off by the time you retire or be close to it. Believe me, the best way to retire is with a home free and clear of a mortgage. At least you know you will always have a place to live as long as you pay for your utilities and property taxes. We lived in two apartments for the first year of our marriage and hated it. Noisy, restrictions on what we could do and small. A home is an investment while a rental is paying the mortgage on someone else's investment. Renting will free up a lot of cash but I can get the same cash by taking out a mortgage on my home, borrowing against it or even a reverse mortgage. 

When you rent you are subject to rent increases, rules, and basically paying with nothing to show for it. You are not going to put in a pool, add a deck or extra bathroom, modernize your kitchen and all sorts of things because if you move, you lose it all and the landlord benefits. With a home you own, you can customize it to your needs.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

I own my home free and clear, so just monthly upkeep and taxes. However, I still think renting is good in many cases. I actually felt more free when I was renting than living in a paid for home. If I want to move, I could either buy out the lease, or just wait till it is up and go. Moving when you own a home is much more of a hassle. If the home sells fast, then it is not as big of a deal. However, if you feel you will be staying for a long time, then owning may be best. I have never really made money on buying / selling the homes I have lived in. I seem to buy at high points of the real estate market, then watch it slide as I need to move for some reason. I would still lose money on this home if I sold it in the current market. However, you have to have a place to live. So, even if I lose money in real estate, as long as it isn't more than I would have paid rent for in the same house, then I don't feel I did too bad.

If I decide to move anytime soon, I will likely rent for a couple years. I don't have to deal with maintenance that way and don't worry about real estate going up or down.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If you live in the rust belt buying is not a good strategy. Thanks to our almighty and infallible private sector the market is overbuilt and property appreciation is trivial.

Also, thanks to the infallible and almighty private sector build quality is crap and repair costs are frightening. Next week I have painters coming to paint the first floor. A lot of money... I've painted lower level and 2nd floor but 1st floor has a lot of high ceilings...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Closed.


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