# Don’t Try This at Home: Adultery in the Marital Bed



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Don’t Try This at Home: Adultery in the Marital Bed

By JOYCE WADLERJAN. 12, 2011

THE woman who came to see Ken Altshuler, a divorce lawyer, had reason to be enraged: her husband was not only having an affair, he was also having an extravagant, money’s-no-concern, fabled-and-faraway-beaches affair. He had taken his girlfriend to Tahiti, he was sending flowers to her. But what infuriated his wife the most was where he had often made love to his girlfriend: their marriage bed.

“She was totally fixated on that,” said Mr. Altshuler, who practices in Portland, Me., and is president-elect of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. “ ‘You had sex with that woman in our bed’ — that was overriding everything else. For a year in the divorce, every time an issue came up, that was part of it. We’d need to talk about placing the house up for sale, she’d say, ‘You mean that house where he brought that so-and-so to our bed?’ Or, when we talked about personal division of property, ‘He can take the bed and shove it’ or ‘He can use it with his next *****.’ ”

How did Mr. Altshuler’s client find out her husband was using their bed?

“He admitted it when he got caught,” Mr. Altshuler said, in the tone of one who has spent two and a half decades observing the stupidities of humankind and still retains a touching ability to be amazed. “I think she found some of the charges on the credit card, so he fessed up. And she said, ‘Where did you have sex with her?’ And he goes, ‘In our bed, where else?’ Then it’s, ‘Oops, did I say that?’ ”

Conventions change. A woman no longer earns a scarlet letter for having a child out of wedlock; divorce is not synonymous with scandal; and it is no surprise to find, when a marriage comes apart, that a third person was involved. But even in a sexually liberal culture, the home is still usually off-limits, as if protected by an invisible force field. And the marriage bed — a phrase that in itself seems quaintly out of date — remains a sacred object.

All but one of 18 marriage counselors and divorce lawyers interviewed for this article said they saw at-home adultery rarely, if ever, although the divorce lawyers saw it more often than the therapists. When it does happen, however, the consequences are usually dire: affairs are painful in a marriage, but affairs that take place in the marriage bed can be lethal.

In an informal, unscientific survey conducted at the request of The New York Times by the Web site CafeMom.com, which draws young married women, more than half of approximately 500 respondents said their marriages would “definitely not” survive if their partner made love to another person in the marriage bed. By contrast, less than a third of approximately 700 respondents to another question said that their marriages would “definitely not” survive an affair outside the home.

(read the rest here)


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Hmm, interesting. I guess this is due to inherent territoriality in the human species? Otherwise it's pretty hard to see why it would matter that much where it happened...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

technovelist said:


> Hmm, interesting. I guess this is due to inherent territoriality in the human species? Otherwise it's pretty hard to see why it would matter that much where it happened...


The marital bed is another layer of intimacy violated by the affair I would guess


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

And some people have RAs in the marital bed. Like I've said before, an RA well thought out and planned w precision accuracy can cure resentment almost immediately. Touché!! Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Yeah why would it matter where they slept huh? Imagine coming home from a hard day at work and laying down in sheets mixed with all those fluids from them both. Yup can't imagine why she would be mad.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

It amazes me how far people can fall, this is the lowest of the low.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Interesting article. I do think there is something to it. Its no secret around here that I am a wayward spouse. One thing I would never do is bring an AP into my home period. Its off limits. I can't even see how people do that. To bring an AP into your home means you have to walk past pictures and reminders of the very people you are betraying. How could anyone rationalize that? I would think it would be more than most people could handle from a guilt standpoint.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It's either that, @ReformedHubby, or the wayward is just "so deceptively low-down" that they really don't give a crap, either about their BS or their family victims as to where they bring their paramour to bed them down; so much as they have a nice convenient, "empty" abode with comfortable confines and amenities in which to "get their rocks off" with a little piece of strange in tow!

The only thing worse that they could do, IMHO, is to bring their AP over to the house for a "rumpus session," all while the BS and the family are there! All at the risk, of course, of enduring a sharp searing sting of a bullet to both of their hot and bothered, exposed a$$e$!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I believe in symbolism.

Just like crime scene investigators will decide that a muredered person was either 

1) murdered by a hitman because the job was so clean

or 

2) murdered by someone closely involved with the victim that the felt the need to leave the corpse in a mess, with no dignity and so on......

And so it is with infidelity, while we still have a (social) crime on our hands no matter where sexual intercourse has occurred, there are ways for the guilty party to add an extra helping insult to injury.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

*Adultery in the Marital Bed?*

Probably just another one of the Dirty Little Secrets of Affairs.

My fWW admitted when questioned that the secretive nature of her affairs while dangerous and knowingly wrong was extremely exciting... "thrilling".

Attempting R, I asked her flat out... "Did you ever do it in our Bed?" Of course... "NEVER!". Though she did admit that she had been asked repeatedly to do so.

Interesting... about 6 month into R, she wanted to get rid of our bed and get a new one to replace it. King to a Queen? I asked the question again. 5 years later... the Queen is replaced with another King. ???


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *It's either that, @ReformedHubby, or the wayward is just "so deceptively low-down" that they really don't give a crap, either about their BS or their family victims as to where they bring their paramour to bed them down; so much as they have a nice convenient, "empty" abode with comfortable confines and amenities in which to "get their rocks off" with a little piece of strange in tow!
> 
> The only thing worse that they could do, IMHO, is to bring their AP over to the house for a "rumpus session," all while the BS and the family are there! All at the risk, of course, of enduring a sharp searing sting of a bullet to both of their hot and bothered, exposed a$$e$!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 @ReformedHubby @arbitrator What about the guy who found his wife in bed with the painter during their FIRST year of marriage? He rug sweeps - stews for 30 years and then announces he going to have an affair - but doesn't have the guts to follow through - that guy was all screwed up for 3 decades...why you would not dump a spouse only a year in for doing that is beyond me...it shows rug sweeping NEVER works...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

RWB said:


> *Adultery in the Marital Bed?*
> 
> Probably just another one of the Dirty Little Secrets of Affairs.
> 
> ...


Your wife has not told yo the whole truth....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*For as long as the cheater can effectively lie about their cheating activities, and get away with it ~ who's the wiser?

Just goes to show that they are as equally adept at placing other people's procreative parts within their body as they are in blatantly and unashamedly lying about doing it!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *For as long as the cheater can effectively lie about their cheating activities, and get away with it ~ who's the wiser?
> 
> Just goes to show that they are as equally adept at placing other people's procreative parts within their body as they are lying about doing it!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The marital bed affair should certainly be a deal breaker - how much more disrespect can be heaped upon the BS? Actually i'll add anywhere in the marital home should be a deal breaker...vile sh!t...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> The marital bed affair should certainly be a deal breaker - how much more disrespect can be heaped upon the BS? Actually i'll add anywhere in the marital home should be a deal breaker...vile sh!t...


And TO REPEAT some people have RAs in the marital bed. Like I've said before, an RA well thought out and planned w precision accuracy can cure resentment almost immediately. Touché!! Dude


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> And TO REPEAT some people have RAs in the marital bed. Like I've said before, an RA well thought out and planned w precision accuracy can cure resentment almost immediately. Touché!! Dude


The only thing worse would be a LTA in the marital bed or house...ugh...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> The only thing worse would be a LTA in the marital bed or house...ugh...


Ugh!!! For sho!!


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

There was a guy that was working here for a while. He was married, and he was leaving almost everyday at lunch with a woman that worked in one of the offices here. She was supposed to be a friend of his wifes, and she was married also. Everyday at lunch they would go to her house to have sex. He said he felt bad about it, he said he was banging her in her bed, pictures of her husband and kids everywhere. Dude, whats wrong with you man? How the hell does she do that? Truly sickening


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Lordhavok said:


> There was a guy that was working here for a while. He was married, and he was leaving almost everyday at lunch with a woman that worked in one of the offices here. She was supposed to be a friend of his wifes, and she was married also. Everyday at lunch they would go to her house to have sex. He said he felt bad about it, he said he was banging her in her bed, pictures of her husband and kids everywhere. Dude, whats wrong with you man? How the hell does she do that? Truly sickening


I'm not joking when I say this, I would assume by now the woman has MAJOR mental issues for doing such a thing. You can only block out guilt shame disgust so long and then it overwhelms you. She is probably on a lot of big pharma now. DUDE


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Dude007 said:


> I'm not joking when I say this, *I would assume by now the woman has MAJOR mental issues for doing such a thing. *You can only block out guilt shame disgust so long and then it overwhelms you. She is probably on a lot of big pharma now. DUDE


Maybe, but I bet she has no problem making others suffer for her guilt.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

I am humiliated to admit that my STBX brought the OW into all our homes. We moved a few times and they had a LTA of 6 years and she was in four homes. The worse was years ago when I had surgery followed by a two week hospital stay, the married OW and her kids were in my home everyday. Yes, I was a fool. Yes, I allowed him to make me Plan B for way too long. I will move out of this home after the divorce and buy a home and a new bed!


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> Maybe, but I bet she has no problem making others suffer for her guilt.


Agreed but she is a zombie so who listens to zombies. DUDE


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

With all that infidelity brings to the table, it absolutely astounds me that we get caught up in so many intricacies of an affair. Some can't get past the deception, or the emotional connection, or the physical aspect, or the length of time. BS's consider every little nuance of an affair, and we take all of the nuances differently. Some are decimated by the location, some by the length of time, some by the WS wouldn't do that for me but did for AP. 

It affects us all differently, and BS's find that we are in disbelief of some acts that we find so disrespectful. I found everything about my wife's affair to be disrespectful, and yes some more then others. WS's are in fantasyland with their affair(s) and are adamant they are caught up in the moment. But I have questioned my wife extensively about this, and I find that this is bull. WS's have the presence of mind to hide all of their actions, so how are you caught up in fantasyland? So bringing the AP to your home, I find is calculated, and to show the disrespect forcefully. Having sex in the marital bed is driving the last nail into the coffin. Each night the WS goes to bed that memory of them and AP I would think is there. It would be the same as having sex anywhere in the marital home. 

In my opinion an affair is disrespectful enough. Adding layer upon layer of disrespect is in my opinion how much the BS is disliked. I think this is why some BS's have such difficulty moving past an affair. If the marital home is the location of the infidelity, then the WS can recall that memory every day. If the WS is remorseful then this will be a source of pain for the WS. 

Just my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

drifting on said:


> With all that infidelity brings to the table, it absolutely astounds me that we get caught up in so many intricacies of an affair. Some can't get past the deception, or the emotional connection, or the physical aspect, or the length of time. BS's consider every little nuance of an affair, and we take all of the nuances differently. Some are decimated by the location, some by the length of time, some by the WS wouldn't do that for me but did for AP.
> 
> It affects us all differently, and BS's find that we are in disbelief of some acts that we find so disrespectful. I found everything about my wife's affair to be disrespectful, and yes some more then others. WS's are in fantasyland with their affair(s) and are adamant they are caught up in the moment. But I have questioned my wife extensively about this, and I find that this is bull. WS's have the presence of mind to hide all of their actions, so how are you caught up in fantasyland? So bringing the AP to your home, I find is calculated, and to show the disrespect forcefully. Having sex in the marital bed is driving the last nail into the coffin. Each night the WS goes to bed that memory of them and AP I would think is there. It would be the same as having sex anywhere in the marital home.
> 
> ...


Which is why stated on here so many times its best to end the marriage because for all intense and purpose its ended anyway with a third party involved. Whats stop this normal process is kids, financial situation etc. Both parties should be free from the misery in my opinion and start a new life. Again both WS and BS are probably not happy. JMHO


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Which is why stated on here so many times its best to end the marriage because for all intense and purpose its ended anyway with a third party involved. Whats stop this normal process is kids, financial situation etc. Both parties should be free from the misery in my opinion and start a new life. Again both WS and BS are probably not happy. JMHO



I believe reconciliation can work, but just like the affair, reconciliation is filled with little intricacies. With that being said both the BS and WS both need to be fully committed. That means the affair was probably never brought to the marital home. While I have been contemplating starting a thread, I still believe my marriage can be happy. It takes hard work, and I may have some pain the rest of my life, it is also the path I have chosen. Not for the kids, not for finances, but because I believe this is my best choice. 

Had my wife brought her affair to our home I don't think I could have offered reconciliation. I don't see how I could accept that, how I could move past, or if I could ever move forward. But this wasn't my case. Who knows I could be right and I could be wrong, I'm hoping I have chosen wisely, and up until now I believe I have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

I found out through the hundreds of emails that OM's BW intercepted that my XWW was f**king OM in thier marital bed when his wife was at work and kids were at school. They actually talked about it. I assumed that if she was brazen enough to f**k him in his marital bed than she would have no problem f**king him in our marital bed while I was at work and our kids were at school.

Of course when questioned XWW flat-out denied it. Surprise...I didn't believe her.  I dragged that bed out to the trash in short order. I would have burned it but the city ordinances prohibit it. However, It was somewhat satisfying to see the garbage truck crush the s**t out of it.

I should add that XWW was banging OM in our full-size family SUV. The one that I paid for every month and the same one we drove our kids around in...disgusting! Yep, I couldn't sell that thing fast enough.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

VeryHurt said:


> I am humiliated to admit that my STBX brought the OW into all our homes. We moved a few times and they had a LTA of 6 years and she was in four homes. The worse was years ago when I had surgery followed by a two week hospital stay, the married OW and her kids were in my home everyday. Yes, I was a fool. Yes, I allowed him to make me Plan B for way too long. I will move out of this home after the divorce and buy a home and a new bed!


I'm glad he is a STBX - the man has no respect for you , the marriage or himself. WTF are some people thinking? It's bad enough to go into the gutter of infidelity but you go into the lowest part of the gutter. The marital bed is the worst but anywhere in the marital home is one of the biggest [email protected]#$ yous you can give to the BS. Like RH said in an earlier post - you are in the home where there are pictures of your family, passing the places where your spouse and kids walk every day and you still have sex with another person there despite all the reminders of your family? That shows absolutely zero conscience. SMH.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I believe reconciliation can work, but just like the affair, reconciliation is filled with little intricacies. With that being said both the BS and WS both need to be fully committed. That means the affair was probably never brought to the marital home. While I have been contemplating starting a thread, I still believe my marriage can be happy. It takes hard work, and I may have some pain the rest of my life, it is also the path I have chosen. Not for the kids, not for finances, but because I believe this is my best choice.
> 
> *Had my wife brought her affair to our home I don't think I could have offered reconciliation. I don't see how I could accept that, how I could move past, or if I could ever move forward. *But this wasn't my case. Who knows I could be right and I could be wrong, I'm hoping I have chosen wisely, and up until now I believe I have.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only thing worse than an affair in the marital bed or home is an affair with a family member like a brother in law or sister in law. @drifting on a spouse [email protected]#$%^& another person in your bed or your home is the ultimate disrespect and shows a real depraved indifference to anyone. How can you have sex in the bed and the house you share with your spouse and kids - and then make dinner that night for the family - that shows absolutely no conscience.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

While I understand and agree about the figurative slap in the face that adultery in the marital bed constitutes, I don't see how it really makes a difference for R. Here's how I mean, and I'll use a point system to illustrate. When you reach 10 points you win a nice new shiny unhappy marriage or divorce!

Extra-marital hand jibber +10
Adultery +10
Other sexual acts +10
Add "in the marital bed/home" +1

If her letting another man in the house/bed is so much more worse than her letting another man inside her body, then I wonder where our priorities really lie. We're effectively saying, "I know you let another person into our marriage, thus creating this very unhappy and undesirous situation, but at least you didn't involve our stuff."


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lordhavok said:


> There was a guy that was working here for a while. He was married, and he was leaving almost everyday at lunch with a woman that worked in one of the offices here. She was supposed to be a friend of his wifes, and she was married also. Everyday at lunch they would go to her house to have sex. He said he felt bad about it, he said he was banging her in her bed, pictures of her husband and kids everywhere. Dude, whats wrong with you man? How the hell does she do that? Truly sickening


That guy has no honor - zero...and she is a POS...they both are...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Or an RA of Hiroshima magnitude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Or an RA of Hiroshima magnitude
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you RA in the marital bed that is a NUCLEAR retaliation...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Is there any other kind of retaliation? Ha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Is there any other kind of retaliation? Ha
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I read this article - it just added another layer of horror to an already horrific situation...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

One last awful element, bs in RA leaves used condom and wrapped in ws pillow. Boom the end
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

RA in the marital bed with three circus clowns.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> RA in the marital bed with three circus clowns.


HA! No, as we have stated before, an RA has to be with someone the BS could run off with just like the WS THOUGHT THEY HAD!!! Ha This person needs to be attractive and a college educated professional around 5' 1" with large breasts and...ooops Never Mind!!! DUDE


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

It happens, trust me, I know. I also figured out why she was so attached to that house/bed and why (after R) she was eager to move out and sell that house/bed.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> *It happens, trust me,* I know. I also figured out why she was so attached to that house/bed and why (after R) she was eager to move out and sell that house/bed.


And it makes whatever she did with hr OM even worse and more disrespectful....


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Retribution said:


> While I understand and agree about the figurative slap in the face that adultery in the marital bed constitutes, I don't see how it really makes a difference for R. Here's how I mean, and I'll use a point system to illustrate. When you reach 10 points you win a nice new shiny unhappy marriage or divorce!
> 
> Extra-marital hand jibber +10
> Adultery +10
> ...




I understand exactly what you are saying here, and this was something I still struggle with even now. But I don't think we see it as letting another inside you but more as letting another inside you that is my castle. Trust me I have struggled, and that's without her affair being in our home, it's more of a territorial issue. Had it have taken place in my home (anywhere in my home) I could not have reconciled. Doesn't make what she did any less easier to accept, but she didn't include the area I deem as my safe place. Every part of infidelity is showing no respect to the BS, but having the affair in your own home, despicable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I understand exactly what you are saying here, and this was something I still struggle with even now. But I don't think we see it as letting another inside you but more as letting another inside you that is my castle. Trust me I have struggled, and that's without her affair being in our home, it's more of a territorial issue. *Had it have taken place in my home (anywhere in my home) I could not have reconciled.* Doesn't make what she did any less easier to accept, but she didn't include the area I deem as my safe place. Every part of infidelity is showing no respect to the BS, but having the affair in your own home, despicable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The marital bed is the worst but anywhere in the home is despicable and it shows you the cheater really does not care for anyone or anything but their own pleasure....can you imagine sneaking a lover into your house where your kids play and your spouse watches tv, where you share family meals - you have allowed the violation at that point to physically invade your entire life and not just your own body...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> It happens, trust me, I know. I also figured out why she was so attached to that house/bed and why (after R) she was eager to move out and sell that house/bed.


Is the house sold?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> The only thing worse than an affair in the marital bed or home is an affair with a family member like a brother in law or sister in law. @drifting on a spouse [email protected]#$%^& another person in your bed or your home is the ultimate disrespect and shows a real depraved indifference to anyone. How can you have sex in the bed and the house you share with your spouse and kids - and then make dinner that night for the family - that shows absolutely no conscience.


 I couldn't agree more, I also question whether this person could truly be fixed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I couldn't agree more, I also question whether this person could truly be fixed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is a good question - to go that down deep into the gutter and come out whole would be a real long shot...think about this..presumably you have pictures and other memories in your bedroom or in your living room or den and despite this you have sex with another person - how do you manage to do it? How do you engage in the affair in the presence of all these memories screaming at you to stop?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> That is a good question - to go that down deep into the gutter and come out whole would be a real long shot...think about this..presumably you have pictures and other memories in your bedroom or in your living room or den and despite this you have sex with another person - how do you manage to do it? How do you engage in the affair in the presence of all these memories screaming at you to stop?


Don't most waywards wear a wedding ring for similar reminder? To remind them of their wedding? I don't really see much difference. DUDE


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Don't most waywards wear a wedding ring for similar reminder? To remind them of their wedding? I don't really see much difference. DUDE


Good point about the wedding ring but add to that all the reminders while f**king in yur own house or in your marital bed and you really shake your head and think they really have serious issues..serious f**king issues...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Good point about the wedding ring but add to that all the reminders while f**king in yur own house or in your marital bed and you really shake your head and think they really have serious issues..serious f**king issues...


The one thing that you might not get is how MAD the ws are at their spouse. Yeah we know its delusional fog, but at the time they get it in their head that its all their spouses fault they are cheating. Its the anger/resentment that can block out all the rational thoughts you are mentioning. That's why a STRATEGICALLY PLACE RA can pierce the depths of the waywards soul(assuming it still exists). And when they think "how could my bs pierce me and rip my heart open like that and be so vindictive" , then its hit them. Wow, my bs must really be angry to fire back that much hurt at me. Then the healing can begin with little anger/resentment because BS was able to defend themselves. An RA is actually a much stronger response than a divorce, but an RA followed up immediately by a divorce is the ultimate payback. AND THAT FWS will never CHEAT AGAIN ON ANYONE!! DUDE


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

A former bar friend from my college days ran into me back in the summer. His W had cut him off in bedroom and things were very tense. She would wear provocative clothing and would not listen to him, try to find out WTF was wrong. He was lining up his financial matters when he uncovered his W was having a PA with..... a former "male" who was yet to be qualified as a "female," and coined as a pre-operative transsexual.

I recommended TAM and he is thinking about it. They had sex in the marital bed. The W's reason.... the pre-op's breasts were firm. Well..... I don't think her H would kind of have a shot at competing in that arena. He filed D papers, the pre-op's W filed as well. Yes they had a revenge affair. Ummmm... they're currently dating. Since the pre-op took HRT, s/he could not impregnate a female. The pre-op's W was desperate to have children. Well the pre-op's W is now pregnant, with my bar friend's child, her first, his fifth.

The cheating W contracted an STD from the pre-op. Bar friend or BW do not know if the cheaters are still seeing each other, don't really care. When my bar friend first started telling me this story, I was drinking coffee, near the end it was Jack D.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> I understand exactly what you are saying here, and this was something I still struggle with even now. But I don't think we see it as letting another inside you but more as letting another inside you that is my castle. Trust me I have struggled, and that's without her affair being in our home, it's more of a territorial issue. Had it have taken place in my home (anywhere in my home) I could not have reconciled. Doesn't make what she did any less easier to accept, but she didn't include the area I deem as my safe place. Every part of infidelity is showing no respect to the BS, but having the affair in your own home, despicable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your point about letting another inside your castle really strikes home for me, though I viewed my marriage as my castle more so than my home. It was my safe place. It was where we kept each other safe.

This reminds me of a story I once read about a guy who's girlfriend was there to comfort him when his kitten had died. It was an event that endeared her to him on a very deep level, because she brought him a feeling of safety, security, and love. They ended up getting married. When she went and fvcked her AP years later she changed from the woman who comforted him into the person who had hurt him, and not by accident or mistake, in a way no other person could. She had fundamentally changed how she was viewed by him with one swift stroke.

I'll add that I don't think it matters how our castles are violated, because once that happens we change in a way that is similar for us all. We realize that the people who are willing to hurt us in such ways are not who we thought they were. That person dies, in a manner of speaking, and it's heartbreaking.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

My stbx was obsessed with getting the bed after she moved in with Mr perfect. I never understood it, I know he certainly didn't want it in his house. 

My stbx gets obsessed with "stuff" she was fixated on getting that stupid bed. Flashforward a year and a half later an now she wants the house and of course still asking about the bed. Well I left the bed and her best friend who never approved of my stbx affair and ended there friendship volunteered to leave a parting gift. 

I do hope she enjoyed the pictures I left on the pillow. It really can't be considered a RA because the divorce was already going on so long at that point and we never tried to reconcile but I do hope she slept well in that bed after seeing them.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

honcho said:


> My stbx was obsessed with getting the bed after she moved in with Mr perfect. I never understood it, I know he certainly didn't want it in his house.
> 
> My stbx gets obsessed with "stuff" she was fixated on getting that stupid bed. Flashforward a year and a half later an now she wants the house and of course still asking about the bed. Well I left the bed and her best friend who never approved of my stbx affair and ended there friendship volunteered to leave a parting gift.
> 
> I do hope she enjoyed the pictures I left on the pillow. It really can't be considered a RA because the divorce was already going on so long at that point and we never tried to reconcile but I do hope she slept well in that bed after seeing them.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> My stbx was obsessed with getting the bed after she moved in with Mr perfect. I never understood it, I know he certainly didn't want it in his house.
> 
> My stbx gets obsessed with "stuff" she was fixated on getting that stupid bed. Flashforward a year and a half later an now she wants the house and of course still asking about the bed. Well I left the bed and her best friend who never approved of my stbx affair and ended there friendship volunteered to leave a parting gift.
> 
> I do hope she enjoyed the pictures I left on the pillow. It really can't be considered a RA because the divorce was already going on so long at that point and we never tried to reconcile but I do hope she slept well in that bed after seeing them.


 @honcho Way to go out with a BANG!!! lol


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I have a much greater reaction to a home being violated/invaded than nearly any other location where something can go down.

I find a stranger in my home and the coroner is going to have to answer the next question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

My H actively encouraged me to throw a big birthday party for his work colleague. The 'poor woman' had recently been dumped by her long term boyfriend. She was very grateful. Showed a lot of interest in our family photographs, even asked to see our wedding album...which she 'accidentally' spilt a glass of wine on. 

Only later did I find she was the OW!!


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

BrokenLady said:


> My H actively encouraged me to throw a big birthday party for his work colleague. The 'poor woman' had recently been dumped by her long term boyfriend. She was very grateful. Showed a lot of interest in our family photographs, even asked to see our wedding album...which she 'accidentally' spilt a glass of wine on.
> 
> Only later did I find she was the OW!!


Wow....your WH really was a POS.

Right next to screwing the AP in the marital bed, in terms of low-life scummyness, is introducing the AP to the spouse and encouraging interactions one would normally reserve for friends.

Are you still with your WH?....btw, I'll be honest, I kinda hope you kicked his a** to the curb hard after that bullsh*t.

Sorry you had to go through that.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

BrokenLady said:


> My H actively encouraged me to throw a big birthday party for his work colleague. The 'poor woman' had recently been dumped by her long term boyfriend. She was very grateful. Showed a lot of interest in our family photographs, even asked to see our wedding album...which she 'accidentally' spilt a glass of wine on.
> 
> Only later did I find she was the OW!!


Oh WOW!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> A former bar friend from my college days ran into me back in the summer. His W had cut him off in bedroom and things were very tense. She would wear provocative clothing and would not listen to him, try to find out WTF was wrong. He was lining up his financial matters when he uncovered his W was having a PA with..... a former "male" who was yet to be qualified as a "female," and coined as a pre-operative transsexual.
> 
> I recommended TAM and he is thinking about it. They had sex in the marital bed. The W's reason.... the pre-op's breasts were firm. Well..... I don't think her H would kind of have a shot at competing in that arena. He filed D papers, the pre-op's W filed as well. Yes they had a revenge affair. Ummmm... they're currently dating. Since the pre-op took HRT, s/he could not impregnate a female. The pre-op's W was desperate to have children. Well the pre-op's W is now pregnant, with my bar friend's child, her first, his fifth.
> 
> The cheating W contracted an STD from the pre-op. Bar friend or BW do not know if the cheaters are still seeing each other, don't really care. When my bar friend first started telling me this story, I was drinking coffee, near the end it was Jack D.


I could use a drink just reading about it! WOW!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Retribution said:


> Your point about letting another inside your castle really strikes home for me, though I viewed my marriage as my castle more so than my home. It was my safe place. It was where we kept each other safe.
> 
> This reminds me of a story I once read about a guy who's girlfriend was there to comfort him when his kitten had died. It was an event that endeared her to him on a very deep level, because she brought him a feeling of safety, security, and love. They ended up getting married. When she went and fvcked her AP years later she changed from the woman who comforted him into the person who had hurt him, and not by accident or mistake, in a way no other person could. She had fundamentally changed how she was viewed by him with one swift stroke.
> 
> I'll add that I don't think it matters how our castles are violated, because once that happens we change in a way that is similar for us all. We realize that the people who are willing to hurt us in such ways are not who we thought they were. That person dies, in a manner of speaking, and it's heartbreaking.




My father always told me growing up that his home was his castle, it was a reflection of his hard work, his blood, sweat, and tears. He respected his castle saying it was his, it wasn't much, but it was his. He also said your home is what you make of it, it was the home I was raised in, going back there for holidays after I married, I'd reminisce back to my childhood. I always felt I was home when I returned there. So many good memories, so many laughs, so many tears. 

So if my wife's affair wasn't bad enough, to have the affair in MY house, would have been too much to get past. No matter where in the house I would not be able to call it mine, I could never feel safe there again. I have often said the OM invaded my marriage, that's a declaration of war, and will be responded to in the same manner. But if this happened in MY home I could not have held back from serious bodily harm being inflicted on OM. Life be damned, I'll go to prison but SOB would never invade a family again. Having the affair take place in my home, I could never get past that nor would I be ever to step foot in that house again. Truthfully, I guess that is the one aspect my wife didn't destroy me with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Don't most waywards wear a wedding ring for similar reminder? To remind them of their wedding? I don't really see much difference. DUDE




Think of it this way, the wedding ring the WS wears is your vows not theirs. Their vows are attached to the ring the BS wears. In the wedding ceremony you say your vows, then to symbolize my vows I give you this ring. Remember? So the ring on the finger of the WS is a reminder of your vows not theirs. Part of the reason I struggled with the rings to begin with. My wife had sex with OM wearing her wedding ring. I demanded she take it off, until I realized it was a symbol of my vows. Those were not broken so I asked her to wear it if she wanted. She does wear it by the way. 

But when I dwell on the affair bad things come to my mind. Did she laugh looking at MY ring on her finger while with OM? Did she laugh thinking I'm wearing a ring with no vows attached? Did she look at her ring and think of me at all? Kind of sick and twisted and I hate when I dwell and these dark thoughts come into my mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> My father always told me growing up that his home was his castle, it was a reflection of his hard work, his blood, sweat, and tears. He respected his castle saying it was his, it wasn't much, but it was his. He also said your home is what you make of it, it was the home I was raised in, going back there for holidays after I married, I'd reminisce back to my childhood. I always felt I was home when I returned there. So many good memories, so many laughs, so many tears.
> 
> So if my wife's affair wasn't bad enough, to have the affair in MY house, would have been too much to get past. No matter where in the house I would not be able to call it mine, I could never feel safe there again. I have often said the OM invaded my marriage, that's a declaration of war, and will be responded to in the same manner. But if this happened in MY home I could not have held back from serious bodily harm being inflicted on OM. Life be damned, I'll go to prison but SOB would never invade a family again. Having the affair take place in my home, I could never get past that nor would I be ever to step foot in that house again. Truthfully, I guess that is the one aspect my wife didn't destroy me with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Reading this has me all riled up now. My XWW had her AP in our house. They did everything just short of fvcking, and with my children sleeping in nearby rooms. I've never really gotten over the fact that he hasn't suffered physically for what happened, and that feeling is strong right now. Lucky him that he's two states and about 10 hours away.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> But when I dwell on the affair bad things come to my mind. Did she laugh looking at MY ring on her finger while with OM? Did she laugh thinking I'm wearing a ring with no vows attached? Did she look at her ring and think of me at all? Kind of sick and twisted and I hate when I dwell and these dark thoughts come into my mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But how do we not dwell on such things? I don't enjoy these thoughts, yet they can consume entire days when I'm not careful. Thanks, WW!


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Dude007 said:


> Don't most way wards wear a wedding ring for similar reminder? To remind them of their wedding? I don't really see much difference. DUDE


"Lord of the Rings"...

Your House, your Bed, the Rings... to the lucky that have never had to experience the mind numbing world of the BS, they are just "things". 

Honestly, on the surface it's just a "thing" you bought at Mattress Firm or Kay's. What's the big deal? 

I believe this is the mindset of the WS... so wrapped up in the selfish gratitude of their affair these "things" have very little or no symbolic value anymore. My WW admitted that once she crossed that line it didn't matter anymore... all the safety restraints have been removed.

Col. Jessep... _"We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line."_

C'mon, there just Symbols... Right?

Before DD, I didn't get, hell my IC never got it... she had never been cheated on.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Retribution said:


> Reading this has me all riled up now. My XWW had her AP in our house. They did everything just short of fvcking, and with my children sleeping in nearby rooms. I've never really gotten over the fact that he hasn't suffered physically for what happened, and that feeling is strong right now. Lucky him that he's two states and about 10 hours away.




Retribution, I apologize for getting you all riled up, that was not my intention when replying to you. My home is my sanctuary or comfort zone, it is my small place in this world that is mine. It is also the place that I defend at all costs. All of my worldly possessions are kept here, my family, pets, and belongings. This home is decorated with my personal likes, my history, items that are very close to my heart. I will open my door to most anyone and let them in, if you disrespect my home I will open that same door and walk you out. 

The point being, if an affair is brought into your home, the destruction is complete, you can't ever in my opinion, call that a home again. Every room, hallway, or foyer has been tainted with the destruction of illicit sex. Sex that killed a BS, sex that killed a sanctuary or comfort zone, sex that killed your memories. Burning of the mattress, I understand this completely, but you might as well just start that fire in the house as far as I'm concerned. The WS having their AP in your home is clearly adding the final insult to the affair. 

Infidelity caused more pain then I have felt in my lifetime, to lose my home also, I wonder if I would have survived that. Losing my home for other reasons would be devastating, such as a fire, non-payment, or means would be difficult, but to lose your home due to infidelity is a spike in your heart driven in with the most cruel and malicious intentions. That is the only way I could see or feel these actions from a WS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Retribution, I apologize for getting you all riled up, that was not my intention when replying to you. My home is my sanctuary or comfort zone, it is my small place in this world that is mine. It is also the place that I defend at all costs. All of my worldly possessions are kept here, my family, pets, and belongings. This home is decorated with my personal likes, my history, items that are very close to my heart. I Willkie open my door to most anyone and let them in, if you disrespect my home I will open that same door and walk you out.
> 
> *The point being if an affair is brought into your home, the destruction is complete, you can't ever in my opinion, call that a home again. Every room, hallway, or foyer has been tainted with destruction of illicit sex. Sex that killed a BS, sex that killed a sanctuary or comfort zone, sex that killed your memories. Burning of the mattress, I understand this completely, but you might as well just start that fire in the house as far as I'm concerned. The WS having their AP in your home is clearly adding the final insult to the affair. *
> 
> ...


Well said @drifting on - even if the spouse "avoids having sex in the marital bed" - how big of them 
@Retribution - with your kids in the nearby rooms? wow..just wow..WTF kind of person has an affair in their house with the kids sleeping nearby...how one could reconcile with a person who shows that level of callous disregard for their family is beyond me..I see why you can't...I don't see how anyone could...

That just adds to what I said before - the cheating spouse - cheating wife in your case - ignores all the reminders of her spouse and family and proceeds to give themselves to their AP and to add to that their kids are at home...WTF????? How low in the gutter do people want to go for some strange??


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BrokenLady said:


> My H actively encouraged me to throw a big birthday party for his work colleague. The 'poor woman' had recently been dumped by her long term boyfriend. She was very grateful. Showed a lot of interest in our family photographs, even asked to see our wedding album...which she 'accidentally' spilt a glass of wine on.
> 
> Only later did I find she was the OW!!


WTF?? How disrespectful can you be? Are you still married to him?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

BrokenLady said:


> My H actively encouraged me to throw a big birthday party for his work colleague. The 'poor woman' had recently been dumped by her long term boyfriend. She was very grateful. Showed a lot of interest in our family photographs, even asked to see our wedding album...which she 'accidentally' spilt a glass of wine on.
> 
> Only later did I find she was the OW!!


Did you mention this to your husband? I bet he was smirking.

It's incidents like the above that make me less inclined to believe that other people's missteps are purely just accidents.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > It happens, trust me, I know. I also figured out why she was so attached to that house/bed and why (after R) she was eager to move out and sell that house/bed.
> ...


Yes, not long after R back in 2006. She claims she was so attached to that house because it represented stability in her life after being homeless at times in her youth, but I am not so sure that is the only reason after hosting OM for multi years in the marital bed.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Retribution said:


> But how do we not dwell on such things? I don't enjoy these thoughts, yet they can consume entire days when I'm not careful. Thanks, WW!




Obviously I'm not the best at coping with infidelity as I did try twice to kill myself, but I believe that sometimes it is good for your thoughts to consume you. In your mind you need to objectively inspect every little nuance of the affair. I say this is dwelling but you need to see these thoughts, see them from different perspectives and think them all the way through. Once this has been done you should let that thought go and move forward. Here is where I fail, I will think about this the following week and dwell on it some more. So I'm not processing this thought correctly not am I letting it go and moving forward. 

Some thoughts are not as terrible as others, but I struggle to move forward at times which will only delay my healing and moving forward. Some of what I do is effective is some isn't, you just have to keep processing and moving forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Retribution, I apologize for getting you all riled up, that was not my intention when replying to you_Posted via Mobile Device_


You, sir, have done nothing wrong. Me getting hot under the collar is really just my reality for life now. It could have been any number of thoughts that make me want to HULK SMASH! on any nearby structure or POSOM, and you aren't the cause of the thought or my reaction.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Well said @drifting on - even if the spouse "avoids having sex in the marital bed" - how big of them
> 
> @Retribution - with your kids in the nearby rooms? wow..just wow..WTF kind of person has an affair in their house with the kids sleeping nearby...how one could reconcile with a person who shows that level of callous disregard for their family is beyond me..I see why you can't...I don't see how anyone could...
> 
> That just adds to what I said before - the cheating spouse - cheating wife in your case - ignores all the reminders of her spouse and family and proceeds to give themselves to their AP and to add to that their kids are at home...WTF????? How low in the gutter do people want to go for some strange??


Oh, the stories I could tell. You'd all need duct tape to keep your heads from exploding with the rage they'd paint inside your mind. There'd be severe eye bleeding at a minimum. 

I'd wager we all have those kind of stories to tell though. Our stories are unique, but we all share that heartbreak in common.

Makes me grateful for my anthem. It's the words of this song that keep me grounded in where I need to be to heal.

10 Years - So Long, Goodbye


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry but I think that the whole concept of the marriage bed being "sacred" a bit silly. What happens when you buy a new bed? Do you symbolically burn the old one. Preposterous!! A bed is a THING and things don't have anything to do with cheating. When my wife had her affair, I wouldn't have cared if it happened in the marriage bed, or on top of the Chinatown bus. It wasn't the bed that SHOULD have been "sacred" it was our marriage vows. Where she gave her body to somebody else, isn't important, the fact that she did it, is.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Sorry but I think that the whole concept of the marriage bed being "sacred" a bit silly. What happens when you buy a new bed? Do you symbolically burn the old one. Preposterous!! A bed is a THING and things don't have anything to do with cheating. When my wife had her affair, I wouldn't have cared if it happened in the marriage bed, or on top of the Chinatown bus. It wasn't the bed that SHOULD have been "sacred" it was our marriage vows. Where she gave her body to somebody else, isn't important, the fact that she did it, is.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Obviously I'm not the best at coping with infidelity as I did try twice to kill myself, but I believe that sometimes it is good for your thoughts to consume you. *In your mind you need to objectively inspect every little nuance of the affair. I say this is dwelling but you need to see these thoughts, see them from different perspectives and think them all the way through.* Once this has been done you should let that thought go and move forward. Here is where I fail, I will think about this the following week and dwell on it some more. So I'm not processing this thought correctly not am I letting it go and moving forward.
> 
> Some thoughts are not as terrible as others, but I struggle to move forward at times which will only delay my healing and moving forward. Some of what I do is effective is some isn't, you just have to keep processing and moving forward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We're in the same boat. I too have some attempted suicides.

I absolutely believe that the sentence in bold needs to be done. If we can't do that, then we may miss something that can be learned or help us heal properly.

My brother, who's XWW also had an affair, was the second person I confided in after D-Day. He told me that time doesn't heal all wounds. Over the years I've given this statement a lot of thought, and what it means. He meant that sometimes we have wounds that need more than time, and even then sometimes they don't or can't fully heal.

Here I am, 5 years later, and I'm still in some pain. And I'm not the worst! Some poor bloke just posted yesterday about his WW's affair that happened 14 years ago. My concern is I don't want to be _that guy_ who wallows in his pain and never lets go. In affairs, it's hard to find any hard definitions for many things (what to do, how long for..., what's better R or D, why did he/she do this to me, is he/she still cheating on me, etc.), and without those answers and definitions I find myself wandering in the dark looking for a way out. I see my question about how we don't dwell on things to be one of these hard/impossible to define questions.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Dude007 said:


> Don't most waywards wear a wedding ring for similar reminder? To remind them of their wedding? I don't really see much difference. DUDE


I asked XWW if she even bothered to take it off. The look of shame on her face gave me the answer.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> I asked XWW if she even bothered to take it off. The look of shame on her face gave me the answer.


Cheating with your wedding ring on...SMH Some people are so [email protected]#$%^ up nothing will stop them from getting their ego kibbles..nothing...


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Cheating with your wedding ring on...SMH Some people are so [email protected]#$%^ up nothing will stop them from getting their ego kibbles..nothing...


Truth, your passion for these things makes me smile. If I ever need someone in my corner defending me, getting pissed when somebody makes a slight against...anyone, I want it to be you, or at least your clone.

:smthumbup:


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> Truth, your passion for these things makes me smile. If I ever need someone in my corner defending me, getting pissed when somebody makes a slight against...anyone, I want it to be you, or at least your clone.
> 
> :smthumbup:


What some people dont understand is I've grown up surrounded by infidelity..aside form my ex gf..there were aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, who were either the perpetrator or the victim. I have seen it from every angle. When you see someone you love on their deathbed in pain crying not only from the pain but because their spouse is out cheating - you can't help but see infidelity for the absolute evil that it is. That is the one case that has stuck with me my whole life. To see someone be tortured by by a remorseless sc*mbag cheater during the last days of their life is something you never forget.


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## Ideservedbetter (Oct 2, 2015)

I’m new here but I found this thread and it resonate to my experience. My STBX brought his OW in my house had sex in my bed several times while my children was sleeping in the other bedrooms, she came over about 2X to 3X a week for about 8 weeks. His reasoning, he was at home anyway and the kids are in bed so he invited her over. I really don’t know how a person can do such thing. IN MY HOUSE, IN MY BED WHILE MY CHILDREN WAS SLEEPING IN THE OTHER BEDROOM!!! I can’t get over it so I filed a month ago. I tried to stay for the sake of the children and he is remorseful but it’s too much to take.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Ideservedbetter said:


> I’m new here but I found this thread and it resonate to my experience. My STBX brought his OW in my house had sex in my bed several times while my children was sleeping in the other bedrooms, she came over about 2X to 3X a week for about 8 weeks. *His reasoning, he was at home anyway and the kids are in bed so he invited her over. * I really don’t know how a person can do such thing. IN MY HOUSE, IN MY BED WHILE MY CHILDREN WAS SLEEPING IN THE OTHER BEDROOM!!! I can’t get over it so I filed a month ago. I tried to stay for the sake of the children and he is remorseful but it’s too much to take.


First of all I'm sorry you are here. Um he was at home anyway..WTF does that even mean? He was at home bored or something? so watch ESPN a-hole........


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Hang in there drifting on, I too sometimes have bad days thinking about the behaviors that went down in our old house while I was deployed. Thinking about the disrespect shown by my fWW in out marital bed also takes me to a dark place that I thought I left overseas. Let's just say you can do things legally in war zones that you can't do here.

I remember pressing her once for info on the OM personality. She relayed that he was such a arrogant smart-ass that once after sex, as he was getting dressed he looked at my photo in uniform that was on the nightstand next to the bed and stated "I'm doing my part to support the military". This was during the mass patriotism that swept the country after 9-11.

Thinking about that incident makes me hope I never run into him. My fWW also never stopped wearing her wedding ring. I wondered if she ever got his "man fluid" on the ring? I even told the OMW recently that he can never come around me as I will not be responsible for what might happen. She indicated that she wished some BH had beat him up to teach him a lesson about causing pain.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Hang in there drifting on, I too sometimes have bad days thinking about the behaviors that went down in our old house while I was deployed. Thinking about the disrespect shown by my fWW in out marital bed also takes me to a dark place that I thought I left overseas. Let's just say you can do things legally in war zones that you can't do here.
> 
> *I remember pressing her once for info on the OM personality. She relayed that he was such a arrogant smart-ass that once after sex, as he was getting dressed he looked at my photo in uniform that was on the nightstand next to the bed and stated "I'm doing my part to support the military".* This was during the mass patriotism that swept the country after 9-11.
> 
> Thinking about that incident makes me hope I never run into him. My fWW also never stopped wearing her wedding ring. I wondered if she ever got his "man fluid" on the ring? I even told the OMW recently that he can never come around me as I will not be responsible for what might happen. She indicated that she wished some BH had beat him up to teach him a lesson about causing pain.


If your wife slept with him again after that statmeent I do not know how you are in R...


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What some people dont understand is I've grown up surrounded by infidelity..aside form my ex gf..there were aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, who were either the perpetrator or the victim. I have seen it from every angle. When you see someone you love on their deathbed in pain crying not only from the pain but because their spouse is out cheating - *you can't help but see infidelity for the absolute evil that it is.* That is the one case that has stuck with me my whole life. To see someone be tortured by by a remorseless sc*mbag cheater during the last days of their life is something you never forget.


We all have stories that will make the others of us sick. This is a prime example of that. And I thought I was traumatized by the infidelity of the thoughtless adulterating turds around me. This is just amazing to me the depths that people will go.

Also, I sure wish people would use this word, evil, more when talking about infidelity. Anything that comes in and tears what could otherwise be happy families apart is nothing but.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> If your wife slept with him again after that statmeent I do not know how you are in R...


I agree, are you sure you are up to this MD? I realize its still early for you..DUDE


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> We all have stories that will make the others of us sick. This is a prime example of that. And I thought I was traumatized by the infidelity of the thoughtless adulterating turds around me. This is just amazing to me the depths that people will go.
> 
> Also, I sure wish people would use this word, evil, more when talking about infidelity. Anything that comes in and tears what could otherwise be happy families apart is nothing but.


And he married his sl*t mistress and had a kid with her and when he finally died..his new wife got all his $$$ not the kids from his first marriage and the house his first wife loved so much..hows that for justice?


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> And he married his sl*t mistress and had a kid with her and when he finally died..his new wife got all his $$$ not the kids from his first marriage..hows that for justice?


A poor example indeed.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Rookie4 said:


> Sorry but I think that the whole concept of the marriage bed being "sacred" a bit silly. What happens when you buy a new bed? Do you symbolically burn the old one. Preposterous!! A bed is a THING and things don't have anything to do with cheating. When my wife had her affair, I wouldn't have cared if it happened in the marriage bed, or on top of the Chinatown bus. It wasn't the bed that SHOULD have been "sacred" it was our marriage vows. Where she gave her body to somebody else, isn't important, the fact that she did it, is.


Well, we could take this a step further and if she had a previous marriage and given him her vows to exh then yours wouldn't mean much? I mean, most of this pain could be cognitively explained away if you want it to? But if we don't feel love/hurt/pain/recovery/joy, then life is so boring!! DUDE


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> I agree, are you sure you are up to this MD? I realize *its still early for you*..DUDE


It's really not.

That said, if I've done a halfway decent job of piecing together MD's narrative from his numerous threads, it would seem that his WW/FWW/whatever-he-wants-to-call-her has spent considerably less time NOT cheating than she spent cheating.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> It's really not.
> 
> That said, if I've done a halfway decent job of piecing together MD's narrative from his numerous threads, it would seem that his WW/FWW/whatever-he-wants-to-call-her has spent considerably less time NOT cheating than she spent cheating.


Goof!! I hear ya...DUDE


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I am still coming to terms with this new info that I just learned about 3 months ago, even though this A happened from 02-04. Back to the original thread topic, knowing that they had sex in my house, in my bed, with my W, is troubling at best and horrendous at worst.

If it hadn't been for her heavy lifting and demonstrated committment to me while going thru a difficult, unrelated event during the last 9 years after R, I don't know if I could ever get over it knowing what I know now.

That house is gone, that bed is gone, heck even the wedding ring she used to wear has been replaced. In 9 years she has consistently demonstrated positive behavior, with no indication of any impropriety, except not telling me about all of the OM during the time we were separated.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> I am still coming to terms with this new info that I just learned about 3 months ago, even though this A happened from 02-04. Back to the original thread topic, knowing that they had sex in my house, in my bed, with my W, is troubling at best and horrendous at worst.
> 
> If it hadn't been for her heavy lifting and demonstrated committment to me while going thru a difficult, unrelated event during the last 9 years after R, I don't know if I could ever get over it knowing what I know now.
> 
> That house is gone, that bed is gone, heck even the wedding ring she used to wear has been replaced. In 9 years she has consistently demonstrated positive behavior, with no indication of any impropriety, except not telling me about all of the OM during the time we were separated.


so she was there for you in some major crisis and therefore you are willing to forgive her for being with all those OM? Not judging, just trying to understand. DUDE


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Hang in there drifting on, I too sometimes have bad days thinking about the behaviors that went down in our old house while I was deployed. Thinking about the disrespect shown by my fWW in out marital bed also takes me to a dark place that I thought I left overseas. Let's just say you can do things legally in war zones that you can't do here.
> 
> I remember pressing her once for info on the OM personality. She relayed that he was such a arrogant smart-ass that once after sex, as he was getting dressed he looked at my photo in uniform that was on the nightstand next to the bed and stated "I'm doing my part to support the military". This was during the mass patriotism that swept the country after 9-11.
> 
> Thinking about that incident makes me hope I never run into him. My fWW also never stopped wearing her wedding ring. I wondered if she ever got his "man fluid" on the ring? I even told the OMW recently that he can never come around me as I will not be responsible for what might happen. She indicated that she wished some BH had beat him up to teach him a lesson about causing pain.



My wife did not bring OM to our home but rather in a forest preserve. I was saying I could not get past OM in my home and therefore could never truly reconcile her affair. I am sorry that happened to you, and from reading your various threads you are a far stronger man then I. In no way shape or form could I reconcile in your position. 

As for the rings, well she wore hers while with OM. She groped him and therefore, to my dismay or horror, her ring touched OM. That has been difficult and caused me so much pain in the beginning but I have accepted it. It's another little nuance to add to that pile that infidelity brings. 

Thank you MAJDEATH for your service to our beloved country.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> My wife did not bring OM to our home but rather in a forest preserve. I was saying I could not get past OM in my home and therefore could never truly reconcile her affair. I am sorry that happened to you, and from reading your various threads you are a far stronger man then I. In no way shape or form could I reconcile in your position.
> 
> A*s for the rings, well she wore hers while with OM. She groped him and therefore, to my dismay or horror, her ring touched OM.* That has been difficult and caused me so much pain in the beginning but I have accepted it. It's another little nuance to add to that pile that infidelity brings.
> 
> ...


 @drifting on then get new rings since that one is now meaningless..it is a symbol of a marriage that is dead...you have a new one now..so new rings perhaps?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @drifting on then get new rings since that one is now meaningless..it is a symbol of a marriage that is dead...you have a new one now..so new rings perhaps?



The only way for me to move forward was to have new rings. The ring I gave her means nothing to me. The ring I gave my wife represents only one thing, my vows. No longer does it represent my love, my honor towards her, or my heart. The moment that ring touched OM in a sexual way on her hand our marriage died. It's been difficult to see that ring in her finger, to think she so carelessly groped and pawed at his body with the ring that represented my vows. To me it's mind boggling, to others it may seem foolish, but those rings were important to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Dude007 said:


> Well, we could take this a step further and if she had a previous marriage and given him her vows to exh then yours wouldn't mean much? I mean, most of this pain could be cognitively explained away if you want it to? But if we don't feel love/hurt/pain/recovery/joy, then life is so boring!! DUDE


Not what I said , at all. What I'm saying is that you should focus your emotions on the PERSON, not on the places or things. The marital bed didn't cheat , neither did the house , or City or the ring or any other object or location, so why waste thought on them? Save your energy for the real culprit, the cheater.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

"My H actively encouraged me to throw a big birthday party for his work colleague. The 'poor woman' had recently been dumped by her long term boyfriend. She was very grateful. Showed a lot of interest in our family photographs, even asked to see our wedding album...which she 'accidentally' spilt a glass of wine on. 

Only later did I find she was the OW!!"


That was 12 years ago. We're still together. 

It's interesting that as BS we are putting so much significance in 'THINGS'. I definitely do. My home is filled with 'things' that mean SO, SO very much to me. They are memories, moments that make-up my life. My husband does NOT put any meaning onto things...that's not quite true...it's more 'things' don't carry the memories, the significance that they do for me. 

At Christmas he sent his EA's children books that are my favorites to read with my kids. They are "OUR BOOKS". I have so many wonderful memories of reading those books with my son & now my daughter as she's old enough. They're just silly little English books (I live in USA) but to ME they MEAN so much. I can't explain the pain I feel knowing she is reading OUR books to HER children. In R I've tried to explain this pain. My H's logic is.... Her kids are about the same age so I just thought 'What do our kids REALLY like?' so he bought them the books. He tries to understand but he can't empathize, not really....

I have several examples like this. I wonder if it's a WS thing. Know what I mean? Things mean less. Things aren't felt as deeply. It's easier to cheat & lie because they don't look at everything in their lives, family photos, anniversary gifts, LIFE & feel such overwhelming guilt that it's impossible to carry on & betray everything REAL. I don't know......


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

This thread is so tragically depressing. How do people inflict so much pain on other human beings??


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

BrokenLady said:


> This thread is so tragically depressing. How do people inflict so much pain on other human beings??



You should come to work with me for a week, the only thing worse is war. As retribution has said in his posts, we all have stories, some just happen to be worse then others. I tell my mom what happens at work and all she says is, "you live in a much different world then I". Perhaps I do, but she drives down the same streets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> The only way for me to move forward was to have new rings. The ring I gave her means nothing to me. The ring I gave my wife represents only one thing, my vows. No longer does it represent my love, my honor towards her, or my heart. The moment that ring touched OM in a sexual way on her hand our marriage died. *It's been difficult to see that ring in her finger*, to think she so carelessly groped and pawed at his body with the ring that represented my vows. To me it's mind boggling, to others it may seem foolish, but those rings were important to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So why the [email protected]#$ doesn't she take it off and get a new one? It's the least she could do..oh and pay for it herself..she should have both you both new rings...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BrokenLady said:


> "My H actively encouraged me to throw a big birthday party for his work colleague. The 'poor woman' had recently been dumped by her long term boyfriend. She was very grateful. Showed a lot of interest in our family photographs, even asked to see our wedding album...which she 'accidentally' spilt a glass of wine on.
> 
> Only later did I find she was the OW!!"
> 
> ...


 @BrokenLady Yeah to the WS things do mean less - things like marital vows, sexual fidelity, trustworthiness....so yeah why would the mrital bed mean any more to some of them...


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Not what I said , at all. What I'm saying is that you should focus your emotions on the PERSON, not on the places or things. The marital bed didn't cheat , neither did the house , or City or the ring or any other object or location, so why waste thought on them? Save your energy for the real culprit, the cheater.




I can understand to a certain degree what you are saying here, but there is a difference in what others are trying to say. While its true that a house, bed, rings, and car etc, etc, are objects, they still need to be processed by the BS. If my wife had sex in our car I would sell it. I couldn't drive that car nor be a passenger. The car did nothing to me but the trigger of what my wife DID in that car affects me greatly. So no longer is it just a car, bed, house, or whatever. It is a direct cause of pain and anxiety. I don't understand how a BS could be so callous towards themselves and sleep in the bed the WS and AP had sex in. No way I could do that. 

These triggers need to be thought through and processed just like all the other aspects of infidelity. The BS has to face this as part of the healing process, if ignored it can prevent healing. So these aren't just objects, my home I care greatly for, it is filled with memories both good and bad. It is filled with objects that have great sentimental value to me. Objects that belonged to special people in my life, true that's not a bed, but that bed is where I lay my head down, where I am most vulnerable with my wife in having intimacy. I could never lay in that bed, I could never be vulnerable, nor could I be intimate in the same place as my wife and OM. I don't care to ever be with my wife where her and OM consummated the act of sex. I wouldn't keep anything associated with her and OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> So why the [email protected]#$ doesn't she take it off and get a new one? It's the least she could do..oh and pay for it herself..she should have both you both new rings...



As hard and incredible as this sounds, it never crossed my wife's mind to remove the ring. Another little thought that just makes you smash your head into a wall.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> As hard and incredible as this sounds, it never crossed my wife's mind to remove the ring. Another little thought that just makes you smash your head into a wall.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I mean why doesn't she take it off now and get a new one?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> So why the [email protected]#$ doesn't she take it off and get a new one? It's the least she could do..oh and pay for it herself..she should have both you both new rings...



We are getting new rings, we had planned to January of this year (2015) but our plans were forced to change. I will have it done this year though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> We are getting new rings, we had planned to January of this year (2015) but our plans were forced to change. I will have it done this year though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does she know how much it bothers you to see her with that rong on?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I mean why doesn't she take it off now and get a new one?



As we go through reconciliation I have found that she is much more appreciative of shall we say keepsakes. With the effort both of us are putting forth and her breaking her vows, she is learning how to truly honor people and keepsakes. The ring has such value to her now that she won't remove it, and even though the ring has no real value to me, it is a reflection of MY vows. Those were not broken, and it is my token to her of my vows, now that she broke hers she has learned how valuable that is. She never expected to cheat, she never sought to have an affair, she failed miserably at going down the slippery slope. She has some great qualities but she shoved them away at a time she should have held on more to them. 

So I feel asking her to remove the rings to be possibly detrimental as she is learning to value more appropriately. In reconciliation you have to accept some harsh actions, and you have to be careful to not issue harsh actions to heal. The value she has now placed on her ring, to remove it would be detrimental to her healing. It is a reminder of my love to her, my honor, and my loyalty. This is something she needs now to heal herself, I don't want to chance placing a roadblock in her recovery. I'm sure this doesn't make sense but I see the value, I see the respect, I see that wearing that ring helps her heal. I'm not sure I can explain this in a way that others may understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Does she know how much it bothers you to see her with that rong on?




While it bothers me and she knows, I have asked her to continue wearing the ring. I have accepted what was done with the ring, and I am past that part now. Although it bothers me it is tolerable now but not in the early stages. It is actually helpful that she wears it now in her healing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> As we go through reconciliation I have found that she is much more appreciative of shall we say keepsakes. With the effort both of us are putting forth and her breaking her vows, she is learning how to truly honor people and keepsakes. The ring has such value to her now that she won't remove it, and even though the ring has no real value to me, it is a reflection of MY vows. Those were not broken, and it is my token to her of my vows, now that she broke hers she has learned how valuable that is. She never expected to cheat, she never sought to have an affair, she failed miserably at going down the slippery slope. She has some great qualities but she shoved them away at a time she should have held on more to them.
> 
> So I feel asking her to remove the rings to be possibly detrimental as she is learning to value more appropriately. In reconciliation you have to accept some harsh actions, and you have to be careful to not issue harsh actions to heal. The value she has now placed on her ring, to remove it would be detrimental to her healing. It is a reminder of my love to her, my honor, and my loyalty. This is something she needs now to heal herself, I don't want to chance placing a roadblock in her recovery. I'm sure this doesn't make sense but I see the value, I see the respect, I see that wearing that ring helps her heal. I'm not sure I can explain this in a way that others may understand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 @drifting on Ummmm..what about your healing and no you dont have to accept such harsh actions. You should tell her what seeing that ring means to you - this is not about her it's about you my friend. She caused this sh!t storm so she doesn't get to make the recovery all about her as well. You need to think about yourself more. IMHO Your wife needs to lean a lesson in unselfishness.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> While it bothers me and she knows, I have asked her to continue wearing the ring. I have accepted what was done with the ring, and I am past that part now. Although it bothers me it is tolerable now but not in the early stages. It is actually helpful that she wears it now in her healing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she knows she should have taken it off VOLUNTARILY - she is still making it about her...part of being remorseful is being proactive...


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @drifting on Ummmm..what about your healing and no you dont have to accept such harsh actions. You should tell her what seeing that ring means to you - this is not about her it's about you my friend. She caused this sh!t storm so she doesn't get to make the recovery all about her as well. You need to think about yourself more. IMHO Your wife needs to lean a lesson in unselfishness.



I understand this is about my healing, that this was all caused by her actions, but in order to heal you have to accept the affair. Accepting the affair is difficult, but to move forward you have to accept it. That means you accept what has happened, what was done, and that it will take every ounce of strength you have. Accepting the affair doesn't mean I'm happy it happened, it means I'm ready to move forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I understand this is about my healing, that this was all caused by her actions, but in order to heal you have to accept the affair. Accepting the affair is difficult, but to move forward you have to accept it. That means you accept what has happened, what was done, and that it will take every ounce of strength you have. Accepting the affair doesn't mean I'm happy it happened, it means I'm ready to move forward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My point was - make sure you take care of you. I know you are a very giving guy but you know what learn how to take - and your wife eeds to leartn how to give - she has taken enough. I think you are still on your journey and who knows where it leads....


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

drifting on said:


> While it bothers me and she knows, I have asked her to continue wearing the ring. I have accepted what was done with the ring, and I am past that part now. Although it bothers me it is tolerable now but not in the early stages. It is actually helpful that she wears it now in her healing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


On DD, I asked my WS about the sex and did she wear her rings. She says she would slipped them off in the Hotel No Tell parking lot.

Fine! "You want to be single again... then you don't need them now." Pressured... She took them off and handed them to me. I eventually gave them to my grown Son and told him to hock-em for whatever he could get. 

Obviously, they meant nothing to her and even less to me. 6 years down the road, still together, she eventually replaced/bought a simple band, as a reminder. I will never wear another.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

RWB said:


> On DD, I asked my WS about the sex and did she wear her rings. She says she would slipped them off in the Hotel No Tell parking lot.
> 
> Fine! "You want to be single again... then you don't need them now." Pressured... She took them off and handed them to me. I eventually gave them to my grown Son and told him to hock-em for whatever he could get.
> 
> Obviously, they meant nothing to her and even less to me. 6 years down the road, still together, she eventually replaced/bought a simple band, as a reminder. *I will never wear another.*


How does your wife feel about that? Also - are you truly happy being married to her?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> My point was - make sure you take care of you. I know you are a very giving guy but you know what learn how to take - and your wife eeds to leartn how to give - she has taken enough. I think you are still on your journey and who knows where it leads....



I understand this and I do take, and yes she gives also. After d-day when I asked about the rings she hesitantly asked if I wanted her to remove them. I said no but later said to take the ring off. Then I realized the ring was actually my vows. That is what made this acceptable to me. So I told her she could wear them again. The message I'm sending her is one she should have know on her own. But she didn't and that's why I'm here now. She can now look at those rings and learn, the ring had my vows, they are still true and she needs to be the same. So I'm fine now with her wearing the ring although it does remotely bother me now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I understand this and I do take, and yes she gives also. After d-day when I asked about the rings she hesitantly asked if I wanted her to remove them. I said no but later said to take the ring off. Then I realized the ring was actually my vows. That is what made this acceptable to me. So I told her she could wear them again. The message I'm sending her is one she should have know on her own. But she didn't and that's why I'm here now. She can now look at those rings and learn, the ring had my vows, they are still true and she needs to be the same. So I'm fine now with her wearing the ring although it does remotely bother me now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


as long as you are ok with it...fine...is she still being proactive?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> Is there any other kind of retaliation? Ha
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I always felt you had a 6 mo affair. Not gonna have a RA....I'm gonna divorce and stack 30 yr olds girls like cord wood for 6 months and then decide if I want to reconcile or not. 

Or if she screwed POSOM 6 times, I'm gonna divorce and go find 6 girls then decide. 

Or divorce and hang with posoms xw.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> as long as you are ok with it...fine...is she still being proactive?




Yes, in fact something that never bothered me before she had taken steps to minimize my pain. It didn't bother me if she went shopping whether grocery or clothing, but I noticed she went shopping with her cousin. This is usually several hours, but this time it was barely an hour. She had thought when she went shopping that I would get anxious. So she cut down on how long she is out shopping to ease my anxiety. She also will not shop near work as OM lives in close proximity to work. She is minimizing her chances of running into him. 

This wasn't significant at all to me, but I view it as she is comprehending even the small areas to ease my anxiety and pain. She is still very recognizant of my process to heal. She is still very remorseful and her depression becoming better. Thankfully her IC was very helpful in keeping her on track.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Retribution said:


> drifting on said:
> 
> 
> > My father always told me growing up that his home was his castle, it was a reflection of his hard work, his blood, sweat, and tears. He respected his castle saying it was his, it wasn't much, but it was his. He also said your home is what you make of it, it was the home I was raised in, going back there for holidays after I married, I'd reminisce back to my childhood. I always felt I was home when I returned there. So many good memories, so many laughs, so many tears.
> ...


Can I say ROAD TRIP!!!!!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

This was my first thought too!! But I like Retribution, and I don't think he needs that little push to head to his car!! He's probably packing right now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> This was my first thought too!! But I like Retribution, and I don't think he needs that little push to head to his car!! He's probably packing right now!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or we could all head to Vegas and live it up....the best RA could be one done publicly across multiple states lol

Catch my drift...>

No jail time that way well at least not for beating the crap out of the POS lol


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Can I say ROAD TRIP!!!!!


Ha! What's funny is I just looked up how long it would take to drive to where he works and finish what he started (a short 11 hour drive), and that was before I came here to read this. Great minds think alike.

Good thing I'm content to let it slide for now. Now if I ever run into him by chance...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> Ha! What's funny is I just looked up how long it would take to drive to where he works and finish what he started (a short 11 hour drive), and that was before I came here to read this. Great minds think alike.
> 
> Good thing I'm content to let it slide for now. Now if I ever run into him by chance...


It's not worht the jail time...this "justice" system protects POS like that..


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Retribution said:


> Ha! What's funny is I just looked up how long it would take to drive to where he works and finish what he started (a short 11 hour drive), and that was before I came here to read this. Great minds think alike.
> 
> Good thing I'm content to let it slide for now. Now if I ever run into him by chance...




I'm at work, eight minutes from OM's house, jail isn't worth it though. Besides, he's living in his own hell now, doesn't look like his marriage will make it. OMW called my wife a while back asking questions, needed it for her healing. About a month and a half ago OMW called me to ask a few more questions, see if I found out any new details, I told her no, same story. She had nothing new either but wanted to know who the aggressor was. I told her, both, but my wife ended it and OM wanted it to continue. She told me OM quit MC and has begun to withdraw, she is thinking she will divorce him. I have empathy for OMW and told her she should do what she needs to do to heal from the betrayal. 

Maybe letting him live will be a better punishment then beating him.>
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I'm at work, eight minutes from OM's house, jail isn't worth it though. Besides, he's living in his own hell now, doesn't look like his marriage will make it. OMW called my wife a while back asking questions, needed it for her healing. About a month and a half ago OMW called me to ask a few more questions, see if I found out any new details, I told her no, same story. She had nothing new either but wanted to know who the aggressor was. I told her, both, but my wife ended it and OM wanted it to continue. She told me OM quit MC and has begun to withdraw, she is thinking she will divorce him. I have empathy for OMW and told her she should do what she needs to do to heal from the betrayal.
> 
> *Maybe letting him live will be a better punishment then beating him.>*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He deserves every ounce of pain, misery and suffering that comes his way...you need to continue your journey wherever it leads you...don't forget about you..sometimes you worry about your wife to much and not enough about yourself..you need to re-balance that...


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> He deserves every ounce of pain, misery and suffering that comes his way...you need to continue your journey wherever it leads you...don't forget about you..sometimes you worry about your wife to much and not enough about yourself..you need to re-balance that...




You are correct in that I worry about my wife, family, and others. I do need to place myself first more, which I have done, but I'm learning as I go with reconciliation. All the talks I've had with both IC and MC it's a fine line I have to walk. I had to issue consequences but not punish, I had to accept but not be spiteful, I've had to take a leap of faith, without any guarantees. I've had to be strong, vulnerable, empathetic of her pain, list boundaries, enforce boundaries, watch my wife live in hell, feel the hell I live in, heal myself, learn new communication strategies, and better myself. This all had to be done when I lost, devastated, destroyed, hopeless, suicidal, humiliated, depressed, lose my beliefs, and shame. 

I've come a long way and still have a long way to travel. My journey is not near the end at all, the outcome still without resolution. While I care, worry, and watch over my wife I do not show all of this to her. She needs to know that we still might not make it, as I'm unsure also. I show many emotions here, that she is not aware of as the feedback is helpful. This is why TAM and it's posters are so great. I am reminded or advised how to handle situations, start threads, and very supportive. For that I am grateful as I try to heal and reconcile my marriage. 

Truthseeker1, you have been vocal about your support from the beginning. You have have been firm, said things I needed to hear, and kept me balanced. I thank you for all you have done as I move forward with my journey. I hope that you stay with TAM as you are a valued poster with knowledge of both sides to an affair. Maybe a TAM trip to Las Vegas is in order to shake the hands of all that have helped each other here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> It's not worht the jail time...this "justice" system protects POS like that..


The OM in my situation has been beat up, had is car and house vandalized many many times. Serial cheaters don't care, it doesn't slow them down. 

The only punishment fitting him would have been to be stuck with my crazy stbx. A lifetime of dealing with her and knowing he got "the prize" would have put a smile on my face. 

He is a full time drunk but even he could drink enough to think she was normal haha


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> The OM in my situation has been beat up, had is car and house vandalized many many times. Serial cheaters don't care, it doesn't slow them down.
> 
> The only punishment fitting him would have been to be stuck with my crazy stbx. A lifetime of dealing with her and knowing he got "the prize" would have put a smile on my face.
> 
> He is a full time drunk but even he could drink enough to think she was normal haha


For the record I have no sympathy for a POS who gets a butt whopping after they get caught being unfaithful....you walk down a dark alley sometimes you get mugged...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> You are correct in that I worry about my wife, family, and others. I do need to place myself first more, which I have done, but I'm learning as I go with reconciliation. All the talks I've had with both IC and MC it's a fine line I have to walk. I had to issue consequences but not punish, I had to accept but not be spiteful, I've had to take a leap of faith, without any guarantees. I've had to be strong, vulnerable, empathetic of her pain, list boundaries, enforce boundaries, watch my wife live in hell, feel the hell I live in, heal myself, learn new communication strategies, and better myself. This all had to be done when I lost, devastated, destroyed, hopeless, suicidal, humiliated, depressed, lose my beliefs, and shame.
> 
> I've come a long way and still have a long way to travel. My journey is not near the end at all, the outcome still without resolution. While I care, worry, and watch over my wife I do not show all of this to her. She needs to know that we still might not make it, as I'm unsure also. I show many emotions here, that she is not aware of as the feedback is helpful. This is why TAM and it's posters are so great. I am reminded or advised how to handle situations, start threads, and very supportive. For that I am grateful as I try to heal and reconcile my marriage.
> 
> ...


 @drifting on You are welcome...remember my concern is for you and you alone...I do wish you the best..but I think you know that..


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> For the record I have no sympathy for a POS who gets a butt whopping after they get caught being unfaithful....you walk down a dark alley sometimes you get mugged...


Think one of my favorites with Mr perfect was when someone chased him down and ran him over with a snowmobile. Put him in the hospital for a couple of days.

Course all he did was dump the soulmate of the month and move onto another. It's what he does.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> Think one of my favorites with Mr perfect was when someone chased him down and ran him over with a snowmobile. Put him in the hospital for a couple of days.
> 
> Course all he did was dump the soulmate of the month and move onto another. It's what he does.


In other words he got exactly what he deserved...however I would tell those BHs now don't act like your wife was innocent - she was the other 50% of that coupling...she was not a victim of the OM..she made the decision to [email protected]#$ him....


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I am beginning to feel that this thread is hopeless. Posters are all concentrating on the wrong things. It isn't about the bed, the house, the locations, the rings , or even the AP. It is ALL about your cheating spouse. THIS is where you should be focusing your thoughts and energy. Not making up fantasy scenarios about the AP getting his/her comeuppance. The rest of this is all extraneous sh*t. It means nothing.
It doesn't matter WHERE she/he fuc*ed the AP...it matters that she/he fuc*ed the AP at all. It doesn't matter who the AP is.......there shouldn't have been an AP. You people need to focus on your cheating spouse, nothing else is important. Too many BS's want to play the victim card, and worrying about stuff like this makes it easier to be a weak, helpless victim. Woe is me, my wife wore her rings when she screwed the OM. Feel sorry for me, because they had their affair in our house, etc, etc.. 
In my humble opinion, BS's need to forget about "stuff' and stop feeling sorry for themselves......and take action!! TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE. Deal with the cheater, not the AP. The AP owes you nothing, your spouse does. Forget about "things" they had nothing at all to do with the affair, it was your spouse who caused the affair. If you decide to reconcile, do so on YOUR terms. Take control!!


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Now, I'm not saying that my way is the ONLY way. I will tell you what I did and maybe it will help some of you to focus on what is important.
You can, if you want to, read my past posts and threads. 
When I was finally sure that my ex wife had an affair, I gave her 15 mins to pack a suitcase, then kicked her out....and never let her come back. She begged, and had pretty much everyone in the family, beg for a chance to reconcile. I refused. She , not only threw the AP under the bus, she drove the bus over top of him. She filed a harassment grievance against him, and eventually got him fired. She did everything right. It didn't make a shi**ing difference to me. I went out and had lots of sex with lots of women, improved myself, excelled at my position , took back my life, and regained my self respect. I'll admit I had thoughts of hurting the OM, (I even got banned for expressing it on TAM), but I didn't need to, my ex wife did everything to ruin him, better than I could have. It still didn't matter, because of her cheating, she was no longer part of my family, so I ignored her existence for 2 1/2 years. 
I took my ring off, not because it reminded me of the affair, but because I no longer considered myself married. I went to every place they went, and usually took another woman there. I accepted the idea of the affair, but did not accept my wife. I did not waste my time worrying about things, places, or the AP. I put the blame squarely on the person who betrayed me.....my wife.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I am beginning to feel that this thread is hopeless. Posters are all concentrating on the wrong things. It isn't about the bed, the house, the locations, the rings , or even the AP. It is ALL about your cheating spouse. THIS is where you should be focusing your thoughts and energy. Not making up fantasy scenarios about the AP getting his/her comeuppance. The rest of this is all extraneous sh*t. It means nothing.
> It doesn't matter WHERE she/he fuc*ed the AP...it matters that she/he fuc*ed the AP at all. It doesn't matter who the AP is.......there shouldn't have been an AP. You people need to focus on your cheating spouse, nothing else is important. Too many BS's want to play the victim card, and worrying about stuff like this makes it easier to be a weak, helpless victim. Woe is me, my wife wore her rings when she screwed the OM. Feel sorry for me, because they had their affair in our house, etc, etc..
> In my humble opinion, BS's need to forget about "stuff' and stop feeling sorry for themselves......and take action!! TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE. Deal with the cheater, not the AP. The AP owes you nothing, your spouse does. Forget about "things" they had nothing at all to do with the affair, it was your spouse who caused the affair. If you decide to reconcile, do so on YOUR terms. Take control!!


Rookie while I agree with almost everything you wrote I do believe having an affair in your house and/or in your marital bed adds to the disrespect. How ones spouse can [email protected]#$ an AP in a bed/house they share with there H or W shows an even greater lack of conscience and a higher level of depravity. That for me affects the R - how to reconcile with someone who can walk by your picture, their children's toys and still [email protected]#$ their AP boggles the mind.

That being said you are right about the rest of it. he Bs should take control and kick the cheater square in the a** and dole out the proper consequences and if they do R it should be from a place of strength.

Your story is one of the best I have read on TAM - you doled out the consequences, managed to forgive your exwife but were not ultimately able reconcile and stay together. More BHs could learn from you.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Rookie while I agree with almost everything you wrote I do believe having an affair in your house and/or in your marital bed adds to the disrespect. How ones spouse can [email protected]#$ an AP in a bed/house they share with there H or W shows an even greater lack of conscience and a higher level of depravity. That for me affects the R - how to reconcile with someone who can walk by your picture, their children's toys and still [email protected]#$ their AP boggles the mind.
> 
> That being said you are right about the rest of it. he Bs should take control and kick the cheater square in the a** and dole out the proper consequences and if they do R it should be from a place of strength.
> 
> Your story is one of the best I have read on TAM - you doled out the consequences, managed to forgive your exwife but were not ultimately able reconcile and stay together. More BHs could learn from you.


Thank you, but I disagree. My wife f*cked another man, how does the location make the betrayal any worse? I didn't care if she f*cked him in the marital bed, the no-tell motel or the Vatican.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Thank you, but I disagree. My wife f*cked another man, how does the location make the betrayal any worse? I didn't care if she f*cked him in the marital bed, the no-tell motel or the Vatican.


I don't think we will agree on that point but the rest of it we do. You need to coach more BHs here...they could use it. :smile2:


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Actually, I think the best teachers for BS's are former WS's. When you get a lot of BS's together, it almost always turns into a pity party or a lynch mob. Neither of which is very helpful. 
We USED to have several former wayward spouses here , who provided a ton of useful insight into the mindset of a cheater. Unfortunately, they were pretty much driven away by the mob.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Actually, I think the best teachers for BS's are former WS's. When you get a lot of BS's together, it almost always turns into a pity party or a lynch mob. Neither of which is very helpful.
> We USED to have several former wayward spouses here , who provided a ton of useful insight into the mindset of a cheater. Unfortunately, they were pretty much driven away by the mob.


I read WSs posts here and other sites and you do get a glimpse into their minds..scary place...I do agree that BSs can turn their threads into a pity party instead of a plan for action. ..


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I am beginning to feel that this thread is hopeless. Posters are all concentrating on the wrong things. It isn't about the bed, the house, the locations, the rings , or even the AP. It is ALL about your cheating spouse. THIS is where you should be focusing your thoughts and energy. Not making up fantasy scenarios about the AP getting his/her comeuppance. The rest of this is all extraneous sh*t. It means nothing.
> It doesn't matter WHERE she/he fuc*ed the AP...it matters that she/he fuc*ed the AP at all. It doesn't matter who the AP is.......there shouldn't have been an AP. You people need to focus on your cheating spouse, nothing else is important. Too many BS's want to play the victim card, and worrying about stuff like this makes it easier to be a weak, helpless victim. Woe is me, my wife wore her rings when she screwed the OM. Feel sorry for me, because they had their affair in our house, etc, etc..
> In my humble opinion, BS's need to forget about "stuff' and stop feeling sorry for themselves......and take action!! TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE. Deal with the cheater, not the AP. The AP owes you nothing, your spouse does. Forget about "things" they had nothing at all to do with the affair, it was your spouse who caused the affair. If you decide to reconcile, do so on YOUR terms. Take control!!


Well, if I recall right, in your case the OM was so scared of you he had a peace bond put out on you and I don't think you even touched him, he sounds like a little b!tch.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

convert said:


> Well, if I recall right, in your case the OM was so scared of you he had a peace bond put out on you and I don't think you even touched him, he sounds like a little b!tch.


Every OM/OW is a POS....I know of a guy who when he confronted his ex-wifes OM at the OM's house..the OM hid behind his wife and his BW stood up for him..now that is a real b!tch lol


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*WS's simply want to be able to "have their cake and eat it too!" And for whatever reason!

IMHO, their uncaring ilk is nothingmore than the consummate scum of the earth!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *WS's simply want to be able to "have their cake and eat it too!" And for whatever reason!
> 
> IMHO, their uncaring ilk is nothingmore than the consummate scum of the earth!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 @arbitrator do you write poetry too? lol


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

convert said:


> Well, if I recall right, in your case the OM was so scared of you he had a peace bond put out on you and I don't think you even touched him, he sounds like a little b!tch.


True, but it was meaningless. I soon realized that my ex wife was laying the smackdown on him better than I could have done with my fists. LOL:grin2:


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> True, but it was meaningless. I soon realized that my ex wife was laying the smackdown on him better than I could have done with my fists. LOL:grin2:


How so?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *WS's simply want to be able to "have their cake and eat it too!" And for whatever reason!
> 
> IMHO, their uncaring ilk is nothingmore than the consummate scum of the earth!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't believe this at all. Some FWS's are truly repentant, and have done a great job of character building on themselves. EI, for example, is a really good person, and has done a remarkable amount of work on herself, and her marriage. My ex wife is another woman, who, after the affair , took full responsibility for it and did a HUGE amount of work on her issues, and is now a woman that any man could be proud of.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I don't believe this at all. Some FWS's are truly repentant, and have done a great job of character building on themselves. EI, for example, is a really good person, and has done a remarkable amount of work on herself, and her marriage. My ex wife is another woman, who, after the affair , took full responsibility for it and did a HUGE amount of work on her issues, and is now a woman that any man could be proud of.


How is your relationship with your ex now? How is she dealing with you moving on?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How so?


If you have ever read any of my posts, you would see that my ex wife had anger control issues. When she fully realized the terrible results of her actions, her fury at herself and the OM was truly impressive.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> If you have ever read any of my posts, you would see that my ex wife had anger control issues. When she fully realized the terrible results of her actions, her fury at herself and the OM was truly impressive.


I have no read them all..I read a lot of them..you made quite an impressive journey...


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How is your relationship with your ex now? How is she dealing with you moving on?


We get along extremely well, and I have a HUGE amount of respect for her. She has finally accepted that we are never going to be together again, and has moved on, herself.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> We get along extremely well, and I have a HUGE amount of respect for her. She has finally accepted that we are never going to be together again, and has moved on, herself.


I do have an off topic question: did your ability to forgive your ex-wife allow you to have a healthier relationship with your current gf?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> I don't believe this at all. Some FWS's are truly repentant, and have done a great job of character building on themselves. EI, for example, is a really good person, and has done a remarkable amount of work on herself, and her marriage. My ex wife is another woman, who, after the affair , took full responsibility for it and did a HUGE amount of work on her issues, and is now a woman that any man could be proud of.


*Agreed that EI and a few select other repentant WS's who have asked both God and their betrayed for forgiveness, are the exception to the rule, and as such, should be soundly commended! No question about that!

But the overriding fact of the matter is that good people like them are the exception rather than the rule with the vast majority of wayward's being totally unrepentant about their acts all throughout the duration of their lives!

It is that select group of those self-serving people of "entitlement" that I, as well as most others here, have the utmost personal disdain for!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @arbitrator do you write poetry too? lol


*Poetically speaking, there is no real fear of Milton coming up out of his grave to get me, but I did debate interscholastically and was also accused of being a "master of prose!"

I love to write!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I do have an off topic question: did your ability to forgive your ex-wife allow you to have a healthier relationship with your current gf?


Not specifically, but it did help me to be a more understanding and compassionate person.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Agreed that EI and a few select other repentant WS's who have asked both God and their betrayed for forgiveness, are the exception to the rule, and as such, should be soundly commended! No question about that!
> 
> But the overriding fact of the matter is that good people like them are the exception rather than the rule with the vast majority of wayward's being totally unrepentant about their acts all throughout the duration of their lives!
> 
> ...


I don't see where you get this. Most FWS's do go on to have successful relationships. Serial cheaters are rare, but noticeable. Most people do learn from past bad judgement.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *Poetically speaking, there is no real fear of Milton coming up out of his grave to get me, but I did debate interscholastically and was also accused of being a "master of prose!"
> 
> I love to write!*


I used to fish a lot when I was younger, and was commonly called a master of ba...

Uhhh... nevermind.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I used to fish a lot when I was younger, and was commonly called a master of ba...
> 
> Uhhh... nevermind.


*
Message thoroughly conveyed, Gus ~ loudly and clearly!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Interesting article. 

My ex had her OM play with my kids, then when the kids went to bed had sex with him in our marital bed twice, he spent the whole night, then the next morning he took a shower in my bathroom. 

If I HAD to pick, it's probably the worst thing she did during the affair. It REALLY proved to me how I meant NOTHING to her. Nothing was sacred, I was the ENEMY, and she had NO respect for me.

Months later after the discovery she would beg me repeatedly to work things out. Not because she really loved me but because she wanted to continue to use me. What a truly sad creature she was and still is.

The only person she seems capable of feeling sorry for is herself. Pity parties galore. But for other's like her husband or children, she's a sociopath. Indifferent about how hurtful her actions are to others.

I think people who have the audacity to bring an AP into your house are disgusting evil people who lack even common decency. There is no justification. Broken, entitled, selfish and rotten to the core.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Well, it may not make you happy, but it sure won't make you lonesome. A lot of BS's feel the same. Trouble is, they would rather worry about their "sacred" possessions, than try to solve their issues with the only person who matters .....their spouse. The idea that your spouse is suddenly, for no reason, an evil sociopath, is just another way of avoiding the issues. This whole thread is all about avoiding responsibility.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LOL. Whatever, Rook.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Well, it may not make you happy, but it sure won't make you lonesome. A lot of BS's feel the same. Trouble is, they would rather worry about their "sacred" possessions, than try to solve their issues with the only person who matters .....their spouse. The idea that your spouse is suddenly, for no reason, an evil sociopath, is just another way of avoiding the issues. This whole thread is all about avoiding responsibility.


Avoid what responsibility exactly?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I read WSs posts here and other sites and you do get a glimpse into their minds..scary place...I do agree that BSs can turn their threads into a pity party instead of a plan for action. ..


YEAH and RARELY will a BS EVER admit they benefited in any way by their WS actions. But we all know logically, there are probably MANY benefits although they certainly they don't outnumber the negatives.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Rookie4 said:


> I am beginning to feel that this thread is hopeless. Posters are all concentrating on the wrong things. It isn't about the bed, the house, the locations, the rings , or even the AP. It is ALL about your cheating spouse. THIS is where you should be focusing your thoughts and energy. Not making up fantasy scenarios about the AP getting his/her comeuppance. The rest of this is all extraneous sh*t. It means nothing.
> It doesn't matter WHERE she/he fuc*ed the AP...it matters that she/he fuc*ed the AP at all. It doesn't matter who the AP is.......there shouldn't have been an AP. You people need to focus on your cheating spouse, nothing else is important. Too many BS's want to play the victim card, and worrying about stuff like this makes it easier to be a weak, helpless victim. Woe is me, my wife wore her rings when she screwed the OM. Feel sorry for me, because they had their affair in our house, etc, etc..
> In my humble opinion, BS's need to forget about "stuff' and stop feeling sorry for themselves......and take action!! TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE. Deal with the cheater, not the AP. The AP owes you nothing, your spouse does. Forget about "things" they had nothing at all to do with the affair, it was your spouse who caused the affair. If you decide to reconcile, do so on YOUR terms. Take control!!


I agree with most of what you say here. DUDE


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Avoid what responsibility exactly?


That's it's your fault you weren't home at the time your WS decided to sneak their AP into your house for sex in your bed....

Duh!


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Avoid what responsibility exactly?


If you focus on the nuts and bolts aspects of adultery, then you don't have to face the truths about a bad marriage. It reminds me of a little kid who doesn't want to take a test at school, so he will look at any excuse to avoid it. The cheater is to blame for the cheating, but is rarely to blame for a rotten marriage. If the BS thinks his/her marriage is good, then , of course the WS is a sociopath (or similar crazy person) for wanting so0mething else. The idea that it is somehow worse because the cheating to take place in the marital bed, avoids facing the work to deal with the cheater, and the cause of the affair. It is treating the symptoms and ignoring the cause.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> That's it's your fault you weren't home at the time your WS decided to sneak their AP into your house for sex in your bed....
> 
> Duh!


No, it's your fault that you knew so little about your spouse, that it could happen. It was my fault that I wasn't aware of my wife's state of mind. Cheating very rarely has no advance warning, if only we know our spouses well enough to understand the red flAGS.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> If you focus on the nuts and bolts aspects of adultery, then you don't have to face the truths about a bad marriage. It reminds me of a little kid who doesn't want to take a test at school, so he will look at any excuse to avoid it. The cheater is to blame for the cheating, but is rarely to blame for a rotten marriage. If the BS thinks his/her marriage is good, then , of course the WS is a sociopath (or similar crazy person) for wanting so0mething else. The idea that it is somehow worse because the cheating to take place in the marital bed, avoids facing the work to deal with the cheater, and the cause of the affair. It is treating the symptoms and ignoring the cause.


Rookie we have discussed this..fvcking your AP in the same bed /same house you share with your spouse adds to the disrespect in a lot of peoples view..its not your view I know this...the cause of the affair is the cheater copes with marital issues by fvcking someone else...lots of people in rotten marriages don't cheat...it comes down to character and coping skills..am I saying the BS is a saint..absolutely not..but cheating as a coping mechanism does go to a question of character...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Mitigating and aggravating circumstances, Rook.

Additionally, your entire argument is predicated upon what you perceive to be a universal truth w/ respect to every single marriage that has ever been visited by infidelity -- that each of them was (or is) "rotten".

And that's just not true.

Not every marriage is what your marriage was, not every WS/FWS is what your ex was (or is), and not every BS is what you were.

Or are.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Guys, let's just all chip in and get Rookie a bowl of Total. That way he can piss in a single bowl of cereal instead of pissing in dozens of bowls of the other brand.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Rookie4 said:


> No, it's your fault that you knew so little about your spouse, that it could happen. It was my fault that I wasn't aware of my wife's state of mind. Cheating very rarely has no advance warning, if only we know our spouses well enough to understand the red flAGS.


Damn, you actually get it!! And you seem proud of your exwife and the advances she made within herself. You are probably 110% healed plus growth.(ie you are more wiser person now than pre affair)


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> No, it's your fault that you knew so little about your spouse, that it could happen. It was my fault that I wasn't aware of my wife's state of mind. Cheating very rarely has no advance warning, if only we know our spouses well enough to understand the red flAGS.


Maybe my spouse should of told me before we got married, "Hey BD, if the relationship starts to get rocky, I will probably cheat on you. Just an FYI". 

Would of been a nice heads up. 

Not everyone has the capability to cheat regardless of the marital status. 

You seem utterly incapable of comprehending this.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Cheating cannot happen in a happy marriage with two contented and fulfilled people in it. There is no such thing as spontaneous cheating. This is just another avoidance technique. The idea that your spouse cheated .....for no reason. Good, bad or indifferent, there is ALWAYS a reason, and conversely, there is no such thing as a good marriage that has adultery in it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Cheating cannot happen in a happy marriage with two contented and fulfilled people in it. There is no such thing as spontaneous cheating. This is just another avoidance technique. The idea that your spouse cheated .....for no reason. Good, bad or indifferent, there is ALWAYS a reason, and conversely, there is no such thing as a good marriage that has adultery in it.


Wss have all kinds of reasons in their mind for cheating but guess what - none of them excuses their betrayal. And certainly none of them excuses bringing a stranger into your home or marital bed to fvck them while your spouse isn't there.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Maybe my spouse should of told me before we got married, "Hey BD, if the relationship starts to get rocky, I will probably cheat on you. Just an FYI".
> 
> Would of been a nice heads up.
> 
> ...


I understand that there are plenty of people in bad marriages who don't cheat. What you need to understand is that red flags are seldom vocal. You and other do not seem to know your spouses even a little bit. You also seem to want to avoid facing the truths about your marriage, your spouse or yourself, but would rather concentrate on "things". I wish you luck with that..


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Guys, let's just all chip in and get Rookie a bowl of Total. That way he can piss in a single bowl of cereal instead of pissing in dozens of bowls of the other brand.


Guys, Rookie actually gets it. Yeah POS this and that they are everywhere. We are responsible for knowing our spouse and PICKING OUR SPOUSE!!! Once we take responsibility, we can actually fix ourselves. Until then, its a pity party for sho!!! DUDE


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wss have all kinds of reasons in their mind for cheating but guess what - none of them excuses their betrayal. And certainly none of them excuses bringing a stranger into your home or marital bed to fvck them while your spouse isn't there.


Nobody ever said that they were good reasons, and nobody ever said that they were legitimate excuses, only that they exist, and that a BS should know his spouse well enough to be concerned with the red flags. It might take some digging and actual communication, which a lot of people seem unwilling to invest. I know from my own experience that something was wrong in my marriage, even before the cheating took place. I was too busy, too trusting and too complacent to dig farther. If I had, maybe I could have prevented it...or at least been more aware. You have to take drivers training to drive a car, but any moron can get married.:wink2:


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I understand that there are plenty of people in bad marriages who don't cheat. What you need to understand is that red flags are seldom vocal. You and other do not seem to know your spouses even a little bit. You also seem to want to avoid facing the truths about your marriage, your spouse or yourself, but would rather concentrate on "things". I wish you luck with that..


Knowing your spouse is a capable of cheating is completely separate from knowing if you have problems in a marriage. 

Correlation is not causation in every relationship. Every cheater is not in a bad marriage. Every bad marriage does not involve cheating. 

I am not responsible for knowing my wife was going to cheat on me. I already knew our relationship wasn't great. It's not a justification.

I guess if some scumbag broke into your house and beat off on your bed, you wouldn't have any problem having a good night's sleep in the aforementioned bed.

It's just a "thing" right? No biggie.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Dude007 said:


> Damn, you actually get it!! And you seem proud of your exwife and the advances she made within herself. You are probably 110% healed plus growth.(ie you are more wiser person now than pre affair)


I can totally get behind this. I look back and can see literally dozens of individual red flags, that I SHOULD have been more aware of. It doesn't excuse my wife, it only explains my ignorance, at the time. I know more about my GF in two years than I knew about my wife in 20.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Nobody ever said that they were good reasons, and nobody ever said that they were legitimate excuses, only that they exist, and that a BS should know his spouse well enough to be concerned with the red flags. It might take some digging and actual communication, which a lot of people seem unwilling to invest. I know from my own experience that something was wrong in my marriage, even before the cheating took place. I was too busy, too trusting and too complacent to dig farther. If I had, maybe I could have prevented it...or at least been more aware. *You have to take drivers training to drive a car, but any moron can get married*.:wink2:


No comment on that last point lol


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Cheating cannot happen in a happy marriage with two contented and fulfilled people in it. There is no such thing as spontaneous cheating. This is just another avoidance technique. The idea that your spouse cheated .....for no reason. Good, bad or indifferent, there is ALWAYS a reason, and conversely, there is no such thing as a good marriage that has adultery in it.



No one is either 100% happy or 100% content 100% of the time.

Sooo... your argument, therefore, is that infidelity can occur in any marriage.

That's awesome. We agree.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Knowing your spouse is a capable of cheating is completely separate from knowing if you have problems in a marriage.
> 
> Correlation is not causation in every relationship. Every cheater is not in a bad marriage. Every bad marriage does not involve cheating.
> 
> ...


More fantasies. The cheater , cheated in a good marriage. She just woke up one morning and decided to commit adultery...for no reason. Do you actually believe this?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> No one is either 100% happy or 100% content 100% of the time.
> 
> Sooo... your argument, therefore, is that infidelity can occur in any marriage.
> 
> That's awesome. We agree.


Universally, anything can happen, anywhere, to anybody...........so what? Are you trying to be profound?:grin2:


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> More fantasies. The cheater , cheated in a good marriage. She just woke up one morning and decided to commit adultery...for no reason. Do you actually believe this?


Absolutely... Who's in fantasy land? It's shocking you don't. I've even known people like that.

Try looking outside of TAM. Plenty of cheater forums about people in "perfect" marriages who need the rush and validation of infidelity because they are broken people.

If you based real life off TAM the cheater ratio of women to men is 10:1. This website is a little skewed. Self admitted cheaters are quickly run off so you rarely get their point of view.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Universally, anything can happen, anywhere, to anybody...........so what? Are you trying to be profound?:grin2:



I never try, Rook.

I just am.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Personally, from experience, I think that the LOCATION is more dependent on convenience and urgency than it is about anything else. I know that when I want to f*ck, I am looking for the nearest, private , comfortable location. The bed, sofa, car seat, boat seat, bench or other structure means very little....in fact it is can be very exciting. I also think that there is probably a relationship between affairs in the home and the absence of the spouse, or even if the cheater is a SAHM or SAHD. Very few people want to be discovered in flagrante delecto.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I never try, Rook.
> 
> I just am.


When was this? Damn, I must have missed it. The next time you want to be wise, give me some warning and I will bring popcorn.:grin2:


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> When was this? Damn, I must have missed it. The next time you want to be wise, give me some warning and I will bring popcorn.:grin2:


Careful now. I hear that stuff has a tendency to get stuck in dentures.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Rookie4 said:


> I can totally get behind this. I look back and can see literally dozens of individual red flags, that I SHOULD have been more aware of. It doesn't excuse my wife, it only explains my ignorance, at the time. I know more about my GF in two years than I knew about my wife in 20.


I hear ya! You have a great handle on things...Good luck going up against the hardened betrays on here. It normally takes a LONG time(maybe 10 years if ever) to get where you are and isn't it NICE??!! DUDE


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@BetrayedDad the story in this article that stood out - well one of them was the guy who caught his wife in bed with the painter during their FIRST year of marriage..and raged about it for 30 years...why even stay?
_
"Don-David Lusterman, a psychologist in Baldwin, N.Y., and an author of books on marital and family therapy for the American Psychological Association, once saw a couple who had been married for 30 years. At their first meeting, Dr. Lusterman said, the husband’s eyes were popping out of his head to such a degree that he asked if the man had been examined for a physical problem.

It turned out that the husband was simply extremely agitated. He had told his wife that he intended to have an affair and that she would have to accept it. His wife demanded that they go to marriage counseling in hopes of discovering why her husband was making a demand so alien to his professed beliefs.

“We worked and worked, and one day she said, ‘Do you think this has anything to do with the thing that happened the first year of our marriage?’ ” Dr. Lusterman said. “He said, ‘I don’t think so.’ I asked, ‘What happened?’ Dead silence. Then she says one day he was ill and came home to find her in the marital bed with some guy, I think it was the painter. He says to the fellow, ‘Get out of my house and never return,’ and turns to her and says, ‘I never want to hear a word about this again,’ and very obediently, they never talk about it again.”

The husband’s anger about the affair, Dr. Lusterman continued, never went away. Recently, he had met a woman he was attracted to, which distressed him because having an affair would have violated his ethics. But once he had expressed his rage to his wife, he found that he did not need to have an affair. The marriage survived."_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> I hear ya! You have a great handle on things...Good luck going up against the hardened betrays on here. It normally takes a LONG time(maybe 10 years if ever) to get where you are and isn't it NICE??!! DUDE


What I do think is healthy and what you and @Rookie4 are pointing out is use any adversity to become a better man - analyze it and interpret in a way that serves you. It does not mean condoning the affair but looking for ways to make yourself stronger...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Yes truth seeker you speak the truth. No adversity is too big for us dudes. It only makes us stronger and to have greater resolve. Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Careful now. I hear that stuff has a tendency to get stuck in dentures.


You must be talking about old Grandpaw Rookie, he has crossed the bar, so he doesn't need teeth. I've got all of my choppers except one gold one, which I got in Europe. I was doing some Tapas crawling and one place had braised oxtail and I'm always up for a good bit of tail. Unfortunately this still had the bones in it, so I broke a canine. I always wanted a gold tooth like the gangsters, so I had the Spanish dentist make me one and implant it. When I got home and went to the board meeting, it freaked all of the bigshots out (which is what I wanted), and they thought I was nuts. I already knew I was going to retire early so I didn't give a sh*t.:grin2::grin2:


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Yes truth seeker you speak the truth. No adversity is too big for us dudes. It only makes us stronger and to have greater resolve. Dude
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Adversity can in many cases do that...if we have the right frame of mind...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Adversity can in many cases do that...if we have the right frame of mind...


And sometimes, what seemed like an adversity at first, can be a blessing in disguise. DUDE


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> And sometimes, what seemed like an adversity at first, can be a blessing in disguise. DUDE


Very tru....


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

In some ways being on these forums has helped me a lot. They can be a bit depressing...or is the correct word 'REAL'? I know that I've lived much of my life in an innocent fantasy. I'm ok with that. I actually wish I'd had the opportunity to spend my entire life in that place! I liked being a hapless romantic who always found the best in people. 

You talk about being 'stronger', being survivors but even if you burn the bed (metaphorically or not) can you ever get your innocence back? I'm talking about that blind faith that turns a H or W into true forever FAMILY. That sense of absolute faith & security...Will I ever feel SAFE again? 

I read these forums (I know it's a teeny, tiny cross section of people) & worry that there are so many who are forever changed, damaged, broken inside. Do those who divorce inevitably wear the scars in future relationships? Is it possible to Feel that faith, that FAMILY again through R or a new partner? 

By FAMILY I mean that unconditional bond. That complete faith that only death will part you no matter what life throws at you


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Bl no you can't. That blind faith or innocence you speak of was bs no different than Santa clause or Obama is in Washington to serve you. We all grow and learn about the real world. They Aren't scars they are life, learning and growth. This site represents the population more than you think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BrokenLady said:


> In some ways being on these forums has helped me a lot. They can be a bit depressing...or is the correct word 'REAL'? I know that I've lived much of my life in an innocent fantasy. I'm ok with that. I actually wish I'd had the opportunity to spend my entire life in that place! I liked being a hapless romantic who always found the best in people.
> 
> You talk about being 'stronger', being survivors but even if you burn the bed (metaphorically or not) can you ever get your innocence back? I'm talking about that blind faith that turns a H or W into true forever FAMILY. That sense of absolute faith & security...Will I ever feel SAFE again?
> 
> ...


It's called growing up. If you want to live in a dream world, you could do drugs or get a lobotomy, or hide in a bubble. What is real is much better than some contrived phony belief system, based on fantasy, IMO. A good relationship based on honesty, communication, , intelligence, love and human understanding is much better than the foolish , childish, fantasies of our youth. Innocence is for children.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @BetrayedDad the story in this article that stood out - well one of them was the guy who caught his wife in bed with the painter during their FIRST year of marriage..and raged about it for 30 years...why even stay?
> _
> "Don-David Lusterman, a psychologist in Baldwin, N.Y., and an author of books on marital and family therapy for the American Psychological Association, once saw a couple who had been married for 30 years. At their first meeting, Dr. Lusterman said, the husband’s eyes were popping out of his head to such a degree that he asked if the man had been examined for a physical problem.
> 
> ...


So, in other words , the man was a nut job. He spent 30 years or 1/3 of his life stewing about the affair.....yet did nothing about it? Does this sound sane to anybody? This man was almost the definition of a fool. I have zero sympathy for fools.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

And, I don't think to well of the wife, either. Regardless of her humping the painter, the first year. Why would anyone stay with a crazy person for 30 years?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

BrokenLady said:


> In some ways being on these forums has helped me a lot. They can be a bit depressing...or is the correct word 'REAL'? I know that I've lived much of my life in an innocent fantasy. I'm ok with that. I actually wish I'd had the opportunity to spend my entire life in that place! I liked being a hapless romantic who always found the best in people.
> 
> You talk about being 'stronger', being survivors but even if you burn the bed (metaphorically or not) can you ever get your innocence back? I'm talking about that blind faith that turns a H or W into true forever FAMILY. That sense of absolute faith & security...Will I ever feel SAFE again?
> 
> ...


As with Neo in the Matrix after being unplugged...... Morpheus asks him "if you could... would you want to go back"


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> So, in other words , the man was a nut job. He spent 30 years or 1/3 of his life stewing about the affair.....yet did nothing about it? Does this sound sane to anybody? This man was almost the definition of a fool. I have zero sympathy for fools.


 @Rookie4 he did sound like a fool...if your wife cheats year 1..bail quickly.,..plus who annoucnes they are having an affair and then ageed to marital counseling BEFORE the affair? You are right the guy does not sound like he is the sanest character around...no arguments tere lol...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> It's called growing up. If you want to live in a dream world, you could do drugs or get a lobotomy, or hide in a bubble. What is real is much better than some contrived phony belief system, based on fantasy, IMO. A good relationship based on honesty, communication, , intelligence, love and human understanding is much better than the foolish , childish, fantasies of our youth. *Innocence is for children.*


:iagree::iagree:and VERY dangerous for adults...


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

BrokenLady said:


> I know that I've lived much of my life in an innocent fantasy. I'm ok with that. I actually wish I'd had the opportunity to spend my entire life in that place! I liked being a hapless romantic who always found the best in people.


I'm very much the same as you. The greatest challenge is finding a good person with a moral value system. There are ALOT of selfish scumbags out there and it's not like they wear a sign saying as much. They are virtually all con men/women. Like the old saying goes, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist". If you don't know the red flags (if there even are any, some are THAT good) then you only find out often when it's far too late. Some of it is sadly dumb luck but we are out here looking just like you for someone to devote ourselves too. You have to be very SMART and SELECTIVE when you're looking and it may take a LONG time but one you find them isn't that worth the lifetime you will spend with them? I think so. Hold onto yourself as long as you can until you find that true person who deserves you entirely.



Rookie4 said:


> It's called growing up. If you want to live in a dream world, you could do drugs or get a lobotomy, or hide in a bubble.


Don't listen to this guy. He thinks if you forget the lettuce in your spouse's BLT you deserve to get cheated on.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

This situation could happen to anyone, anywhere, and anytime. I have seen this firsthand, where the happiest husband in the world finds out his wife invited a friend to sleep over while he was gone.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm very much the same as you. The greatest challenge is finding a good person with a moral value system. There are ALOT of selfish scumbags out there and it's not like they wear a sign saying as much. They are virtually all con men/women. Like the old saying goes, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist". If you don't know the red flags (if there even are any, some are THAT good) then you only find out often when it's far too late. Some of it is sadly dumb luck but we are out here looking just like you for someone to devote ourselves too. You have to be very SMART and SELECTIVE when you're looking and it may take a LONG time but one you find them isn't that worth the lifetime you will spend with them? I think so. Hold onto yourself as long as you can until you find that true person who deserves you entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't listen to this guy. He thinks if you forget the lettuce in your spouse's BLT you deserve to get cheated on.


Perhaps you should be an adult? Think that might help? If you are selective and smart about picking your spouse, you should also be intelligent and supportive about KEEPING your spouse. Marriages do not run well on autopilot. Like any other human endeavor, it takes work, by both parties. One of the things that constantly amazes me is how few people actually know their spouses. I thought I knew my wife, and I did, up to a point. But even then, I should have been aware of the difference in her behavior, and I would have, if I had not been distracted by my career. 
Nobody deserves to be cheated on, but we all need to pay closer attention to the home front. Ignorance is NEVER bliss.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> This situation could happen to anyone, anywhere, and anytime. I have seen this firsthand, where the happiest husband in the world finds out his wife invited a friend to sleep over while he was gone.


See, this is exactly my point. This post is totally one sided. The "happiest husband in the world?" What about the wife? Apparently SHE WASN'T the happiest wife in the world, was she? When will people realize that it isn't all about one partner or another. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership.....not a competition.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I thought I knew my wife, and I did, up to a point. But even then, I should have been aware of the difference in her behavior, and I would have, if I had not been distracted by my career.


You want to keep carrying the crucifix of your wife's sins on your back be my guest. It's clear blaming yourself is how you've chosen to deal with HER infidelity because not doing so would force you to acknowledge the kind of person she really is. Did she convince you that you were partly to blame for cheating on you or did you brain wash yourself? 

We're not the ones who need to grow up bud. Adults OWN their actions 100% and accept accountability. Children demand you be responsible for their happiness. Children make excuses and justify bad behavior.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> You want to keep carrying the crucifix of your wife's sins on your back be my guest. It's clear blaming yourself is how you've chosen to deal with HER infidelity because not doing so would force you to acknowledge the kind of person she really is. Did she convince you that you were partly to blame for cheating on you or did you brain wash yourself?
> 
> We're not the ones who need to grow up bud. Adults OWN their actions 100% and accept accountability. Children demand you be responsible for their happiness. Children make excuses and justify bad behavior.


You seem to have a lot of trouble understanding English, is it not your first language? Nobody is attempting to justify cheating, least of all, me. But the idea that all BS's are blameless for the condition of their marriages, and shouldn't have to work to keep their marriages healthy , is idiotic. 
You maintain your car, don't you? You keep your lawn mowed and your house painted, don't you. But your marriage is supposed to run without maintenance? Good Luck with that.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

100% of the blame , FOR THE AFFAIR, goes on the WS. Everything else is at least 50-50.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BTW, my ex wife has done every possible thing to atone for her affair. She has gone the whole nine yards. She outed herself to both families, and her church, she filed a grievance against the OM and got him fired, and transferred to another hospital and she even slapped him in public (which I would have liked to have seen), and placed herself in IC and gave me complete control of her finances. So, apparently, I'm doing something right.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> 100% of the blame , FOR THE AFFAIR, goes on the WS. Everything else is at least 50-50.


I've never heard anyone say otherwise... We both agree. 

Therefore....

If 100% of the affair belongs to the WS then it is MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE of the state of the marriage. How can you continue to equate the two and argue "state of the marriage" is causation if 100% of the blame is on the WS. Which is it? Your statement is contradictory. Either the BS played a role or they didn't. "100% blame" means they did not. 

In other words, when you say things like, "Well you should of seen the signs" it's irrelevant. Signs of a crappy marriage ARE NOT necessarily signs of cheating. NO ONE'S marriage is perfect. No one is blameless in that regard but most cheaters will put that guilt on the BS. Unless you knowingly married an immoral person why should the BS presume they will cheat? 

They will use the state of the marriage to JUSTIFY the cheating..... LIKE A CHILD. And why shouldn't they? They have to make you seem bad so their bad behavior is justified and what better excuse is there? But nothing the BS did FORCED them to cheat. They made that horrible decision 100% own, like you said.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> BTW, my ex wife has done every possible thing to atone for her affair. She has gone the whole nine yards. She outed herself to both families, and her church, she filed a grievance against the OM and got him fired, and transferred to another hospital and she even slapped him in public (which I would have liked to have seen), and placed herself in IC and gave me complete control of her finances. So, apparently, I'm doing something right.


I don't know your story so I won't opine on it.

My ex tried to "atone" for her affair. Told me she would "do anything to have her family back" but she couldn't do one thing I asked her to do. 

Not cheat on me in the first place.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

I do believe that some marriages are in such a terrible state that they should divorce. They've tried everything to improve it but nothing's worked... Some are incapable of making that leap alone & they have exit affairs. It's WRONG & makes them the bad guy/gal they just don't have the strength to go it alone. They inflict horrific pain. Sad but true. 

I DON'T believe this is true MOST of the time! It's a lack of morals & boundaries, then it's a thirst for excitement & a full fledged fantasy! 

I don't think I need to grow-up. I've lost my innocence, my FAITH in my H. I thought he was my family. I wouldn't replace my Dad for a new one because he was sick & not quite as much fun as he used to be! my H lost his job a couple of weeks after I nearly died & had emergency surgery followed by a long recovery. He's always suffered from depression. The stress for HIM excused his behavior. It's a pretty sad world if I'm to believe I need to grow to accept that ALL men would cheat on a wife who's not giving 100% all the time. if its childish to believe that a man would stand by me & take care of me when SICK I choose NOT to put away childish things.

For me to take responsibility for not 'maintaining' my marriage like a car I have to ensure I'm never sick again! I continued to clean & polish my car, regular maintenance, nice quality fuel...I just couldn't drive it at 100 miles an hour!! It was soooo much harder for me to clean my car because it was agony but I still did it because I LOVE my car. Wow this is a hard metaphor to work with!! 

If I could turn back time I should of removed "in sickness & health" & "for better & worse" & "love & cherish" AND "forsaking all others" from our vows but there wouldn't be much left!


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Here's a new spin to the OP. What if you walked in on one of your married parents in the marital bed with OM/OW? Would your world as a child of that couple be so devastated that you would encourage Divorce, or want them to work it out?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> Here's a new spin to the OP. What if you walked in on one of your married parents in the marital bed with OM/OW? Would your world as a child of that couple be so devastated that you would encourage Divorce, or want them to work it out?


Did one of your children walk in on your wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> Here's a new spin to the OP. What if you walked in on one of your married parents in the marital bed with OM/OW? Would your world as a child of that couple be so devastated that you would encourage Divorce, or want them to work it out?





pidge70 said:


> Did one of your children walk in on your wife?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

This sheet gets crazier by the minute
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

This thread is getting more intense than the article...If I were the kid I don't know what I'd do or want...except for it to all just go away...but that ain't gonna happen with that image burned in your brain...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

On the earlier post I mentioned about my college drinking buddy.... his XWs AP, the transgender

wore his Ws wedding dress while the two of them got it on once.

Cue Twilight Zone music about now....


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

At least I must still be sane cuz this sheet on here is so whacko I don't even want to think about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I've never heard anyone say otherwise... We both agree.
> 
> Therefore....
> 
> ...


Where are you from? You simply do not seem to understand the spoken word. The ACT of cheating is 100% on the cheater. Like the ACT of firing a gun is 100% on the person whose finger is on the trigger. The reasons WHY the gun was fired and the reasons WHY the cheating occurred are not necessarily all on the cheater or the shooter. Now, granted, divorce is a much better choice than adultery . But, each situation is different. You can't always portray the WS as an evil person, without walking in their shoes. I KNOW that my ex wife did not WANT to cheat, but she made the bad choice to do so. If we had the kind of marriage (like we had in the past) where we could communicate our concerns , AND THE OTHER PERSON WOULD LISTEN, it might not have gotten to that point. Once she crossed that line, there was no going back. She cheated because our marriage was ****ty, it was ****ty because both of us didn't make it any better. Her bad choice, our bad marriage.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I KNOW that my ex wife did not WANT to cheat, but she made the bad choice to do so.


Sorry Rook, she cheated cause she WANTED to. End of story. You can keep believing whatever nonsense you want about how the bad relationship made her "do it". You got bamboozled hard dude with this bologna about "were you just a little more attentive it NEVER would of happened." Hate to break it to you but the fix was in the minute she met the OM.

Not only was the bad relationship her golden ticket to cheat, so she could sleep comfortably, while getting one over on her "bastard husband" who deserved it because he wasn't attentive enough. More likely than not, as cheats do, she purposely expedited the relationship's demise because how rotten would she feel if you guys actually got along great while she was fvcking another dude? Cheating is all about feeling good not bad. So it not only benefitted her to keep your relationship sour, she had absolutely no interest in mending it while the affair was happening. NONE.

I don't want to get off topic anymore in this thread and you'll never see the obvious truth staring in your face so I'm out. With regard to the actual topic, you have to be a real POS or a sociopath to disrespect your spouse like that. That's my short version take.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I don't know your story so I won't opine on it.
> 
> My ex tried to "atone" for her affair. Told me she would "do anything to have her family back" but she couldn't do one thing I asked her to do.
> 
> Not cheat on me in the first place.


Remember this post? For somebody who doesn't know my story, and won't"opine" about it, you sure seem to know a lot and feel you can make judgements about it.. Dude, you probably should stay away, because you don't have a clue.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I truly doubt if any of the posters who throw around the term "sociopath" even have a clue what it means. People actually believe that the WS PLANNED to use the marital bed, as a deliberate act of disrespect, presupposes that they also planned to get caught. Or else WHY even bother? How can the WS rub the BS's nose in the cr*p, if the BS doesn't even know about it? Is the BS able to lie on the marital bed and somehow KNOW that it has been profaned? Some posters just seem to be so immature and gullible, that they will believe ANYTHING bad about the WS. Forget about reason, forget about common sense, just make up your own fantasy about your evil "sociopathic" WS.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> At least I must still be sane cuz this sheet on here is so whacko I don't even want to think about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah how low people go never ceases to amaze does it?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> People actually believe that the WS PLANNED to use the marital bed, as a deliberate act of disrespect, presupposes that they also planned to get caught. Or else WHY even bother? How can the WS rub the BS's nose in the cr*p, if the BS doesn't even know about it? Is the BS able to lie on the marital bed and somehow KNOW that it has been profaned?


Same reason why someone would spit in your hamburger at a fast food restaurant if you were being a d!ck to them at the counter. You might not know it when you ate the hamburger but THEY do. They don't want to get caught and fired. People like these are so self absorbed it's not important YOU know and plus they are cowards. They just want to know in their heads they got one over on you. 

I find it fascinating how you can't grasp basic human behavior...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Betrayed/Rook,

In a way you are both correct. The WS probably had to demonize the BS mightily to even consider cheating. Since the marriage was crap, it was probably EASIER to delude themselves in order to demonize you. During this time, the WS is for all intense and purposes OUT OF THEIR MIND BONKERS as they detach from reality and move to La La land. They can atone and find themselves and take full responsibility if they have the courage to FACE IT as in ROOKS fWS. Otherwise, they are lost for life and probably can NEVER again have a meaningful relationship as their emotions/mind are completely trashed beyond repair. The BS is then left to deal with their insecurities and jaded view of marriage/life. The BS can recover quickly if they are willing to review/analyze the issues that had in the marriage that had some degree of culpability in its downfall. DUDE


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

The material bed is no different than the wife who told her lover she was going to go home and give her husband a big sloppy kiss after she just gave POSOM a BJ to completion and swallowed.

Or goes home and has hubby give oral after she had just had intercorse with POSOM.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> The material bed is no different than the wife who told her lover she was going to go home and give her husband a big sloppy kiss after she just gave POSOM a BJ to completion and swallowed.
> 
> Or goes home and has hubby give oral after she had just had intercorse with POSOM.


Agreed...each of those things listed increases the amount of disrespect showed to the BS...also do you know of WWs who actually did those things? Gross..........SMH


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Or the dude who dips it in wife's friend(ow) one night and has his wife give him a bj when he gets hm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Or the dude who dips it in wife's friend(ow) one night and has his wife give him a bj when he gets hm.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This thread has become shall we say "creative"......


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Same reason why someone would spit in your hamburger at a fast food restaurant if you were being a d!ck to them at the counter. You might not know it when you ate the hamburger but THEY do. They don't want to get caught and fired. People like these are so self absorbed it's not important YOU know and plus they are cowards. They just want to know in their heads they got one over on you.
> 
> I find it fascinating how you can't grasp basic human behavior...


FYI, I have come to the conclusion that every post you make will be rude, negative and clueless. You will never have anything constructive, helpful or interesting to say, so I don't have any interest in commenting on your posts. So from now on, I will not do so. So feel free to be as nasty as you want to. Have a nice day.:smile2:


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> FYI, I have come to the conclusion that every post you make will be rude, negative and clueless. You will never have anything constructive, helpful or interesting to say, so I don't have any interest in commenting on your posts. So from now on, I will not do so. So feel free to be as nasty as you want to. Have a nice day.:smile2:


Well, if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black........


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

3putt said:


> Well, if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black........


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Don't bother. 3putt is another poster who never has anything to say except, short negative comments or copied pics that are mildly insulting. He can be safely ignored.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> On the earlier post I mentioned about my college drinking buddy.... his XWs AP, the transgender
> 
> wore his Ws wedding dress while the two of them got it on once.
> 
> Cue Twilight Zone music about now....


Freaky....


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Don't bother. 3putt is another poster who never has anything to say except, short negative comments or copied pics that are mildly insulting. He can be safely ignored.


LOL


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

No insults for me? I am always left out........ whahhh


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Freaky....


I recall when he got busted in that porn theatre..... I had to read the story three times....

I could not stand his Playhouse crap....

Chuck... how do you know there is a God? He had me born early enough to miss Pee Wee and Barney...


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Divinely Favored said:
> 
> 
> > The material bed is no different than the wife who told her lover she was going to go home and give her husband a big sloppy kiss after she just gave POSOM a BJ to completion and swallowed.
> ...


One poster a while back caught his wife on VAR telling POSOM that. Ultimate Sucker's 55 yr old wife gave him a big ole sloppy kiss after she came home from her sister's batchelorette party where she sucked off the 22 yr old stripper along with other women participants...including the soon to be bride. Some women left in disgust...some family is calling him cold blooded because He will not let it slide. He is divorcing her....married 39 yrs I believe. Can't get past fact the stripper is her sons age.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> One poster a while back caught his wife on VAR telling POSOM that. Ultimate Sucker's 55 yr old wife gave him a big ole sloppy kiss after she came home from her sister's batchelorette party where she sucked off the 22 yr old stripper along with other women participants...including the soon to be bride. Some women left in disgust...*some family is calling him cold blooded because He will not let it slide. He is divorcing her....married 39 yrs I believe. Can't get past fact the stripper is her sons age.*


Whoever calls him cold blooded is a fool..did the bride get married or did her fiance find out and dump her?


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## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

I was unfortunate enough to live this. More so as I caught them in the bed. I can say without exception the painful experience of my life. And im no angel.

A lot of interesting views here as always. I can say for me that having it at our home absolutley adds a layer to the betrayal for many of the reasons identified. It just gives more insight to tbe depravity of it all. Wedding picture on her bedside table and all.....


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry but I don't see it that way. Like I said before if your spouse is fuc*ing somebody else, what does it matter where it is happening, because it shouldn't be happening , in the first place. When my ex wife was having her affair , it didn't matter if it was happening in a sewer, barn, church or Yankee Stadium. It's like shooting somebody..........., as opposed to shooting somebody, then running over them with a truck, then blowing them up with explosives. What difference does it make? They are just as dead, either way. 
Is there a RESPECTFUL way to cheat? That I'm not aware of? LOL


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lots to Learn said:


> I was unfortunate enough to live this. More so as I caught them in it. I can say without exception the painful experience of my life. And im no angel.
> 
> A lot of interesting views here as always. I can say for me that it came to our home absolutley adds a layer to the betrayal for many of the reasons identified. It just gives more insight to tbe depravity of it all. Wedding picture on her bedside table and all.....


Wow I'm so sorry..you caught yur wife in bed with her lover? Wat did they do when you walked in?


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## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow I'm so sorry..you caught yur wife in bed with her lover? Wat did they do when you walked in?


Indeed. On our first day of MC if you can believe it. You know when she was saying I love you, I think we need help with the M and maybe we can make this work. Two months later Im still not sure what the hell just happened.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Are you pursuing divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Are you pursuing divorce?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yes. Meet arbitrator on Weds. House is bought, go see with kids tomorrow.Looking fwd to escaping the negative nature of ut all. So destructive.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lots to Learn said:


> Yes. Meet arbitrator on Weds. House is bought, go see with kids tomorrow.Looking fwd to escaping the negative nature of ut all. So destructive.


is your STBXW still seeing the POSOM?


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## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> is your STBXW still seeing the POSOM?


No idea. She says she is not, but you know how it is. I cant believe a word she says on the subject. The lies, the deception. She of course has rationalizsd it all. If I was more caring etc, it wouldnt of happened. She blameshifts and equivacats everything. 

I am only now coming to terms that she is truly lost. So heart breaking.I was lucking to find and purchase a new home which I can close on in 30 days.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lots to Learn said:


> No idea. She says she is not, but you knownhowmit is. I cant believe a word she says on the subject. The lies, the deception.* She of course has rationalizsd it all. If I was more caring etc, it woukdnt of happened. She blameshifts and equivacats everything. *
> 
> I am only now coming to terms that she is truly lost. So heart breaking.I was lucking to find and purchase a new home which I can flose on in 30 days.


She has no remorse then...she is truly lost...


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Yeah she is broken beyond belief. You are handling things well. Keep all ur family and friends in the loop as you will need major support. Are u on any meds or boozing heavily?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> Yeah she is broken beyond belief. You are handling things well. Keep all ur family and friends in the loop as you will need major support. Are u on any meds or boozing heavily?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed...hang in there


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She is off and away with the fog fairies, sad to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She is off and away with the fog fairies, sad to say.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Whe the fog fairies leave she is in for a hard falll.a..and she will deserve her misery....


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

TSeeker, ever saw Gridcom's thread?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> TSeeker, ever saw Gridcom's thread?


Yes...why?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LOL........... e-p-i-c


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> LOL........... e-p-i-c












*No comment.*


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I never caught my fWW in the marital bed with others, but I know now that she did have a "frequent guest" who came over for romps in that bed. I was not around so not as bad as others may have dealt with. Not a problem for her as she was moving on with new relationships and that is where she lived, as a pseudo-single woman.

What's interesting is that the OM refused to entertain a romp with her in his marital bed. The times they hooked up at his place were always in the basement. Double standard or control freak?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

consider a certain poster, s/he


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I never caught my fWW in the marital bed with others, but I know now that she did have a "frequent guest" who came over for romps in that bed. I was not around so not as bad as others may have dealt with. Not a problem for her as she was moving on with new relationships and that is where she lived, as a pseudo-single woman.
> 
> What's interesting is that the OM refused to entertain a romp with her in his marital bed. The times they hooked up at his place were always in the basement. Double standard or control freak?


Double standard...he might have known if he added that layer of disrespect of fvcking another woman in his marital bed she'd divorce him or he'd be too guilty doing it in the same bed he shared with his wife..either way its interesting that he refused to shag your wife in HIS martial bed...


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## Lots to Learn (Aug 21, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Whe the fog fairies leave she is in for a hard falll.a..and she will deserve her misery....


No kidding. As much as I am aware of the fog from my education here, it doesnt make it any less painful to watch. Im not sure I will ever understand how someone yiu thought you knew could chage so much. I guess that is the diference between people.

Its no diferent than when I first came here and read all the heartbreaking stories. Advice given, not taken, nobody believes their spouse is capable of such betrayal. And so, it happened to me too. Imagine after reading all those threads, your heart going out to these people and then watching it as a live event. Its like watching a train about to hit a child, you are watching, and there is nothing you can do. So devastating. For what? Something on tbe side? Christ. So much lost for so little.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lots to Learn said:


> No kidding. As much as I am aware of the fog from my education here, it doesnt make it any less painful to watch. Im not sure I will ever understand how someone yiu thought you knew could chage so much. I guess that is the diference between people.
> 
> Its no diferent than when I first came here and read all the heartbreaking stories. Advice given, not taken, nobody believes their spouse is capable of such betrayal. And so, it happened to me too. Imagine after reading all those threads, your heart going out to these people and then watching it as a live event. Its like watching a train about to hit a child, you are watching, and there is nothing you can do. *So devastating. For what? Something on tbe side? Christ. So much lost for so little*.


That says it all about adultery - so much lost for so little. Well said.


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