# First post - witholding sex



## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Hi all - interesting to read the posts on here. I've seen a few cut from the same cloth of what I'm about to say, but still felt like posting. Male, married 30 years, couple of grown kids, very attractive but sexually infrequent wife.

She can be super loving in so many ways in our marriage, but when it comes to sex, some kind of barrier is there. I'm a fit and healthy guy with a high sex drive our entire marriage. She has been hot and cold over the years, but since the 'change' mostly cold. Still when she does have the urge, it's intensely hot and extremely enjoyable. She always climaxes and makes sure I do too, even when it's been more difficult for me after resisting the early urges so I can keep it going strong for her. The only problem is frequency! There were years when she was only interested within a couple of days after her period, then the switch was flipped back off. And some months we missed the timing and waited another month! ~Ouch~ 

She has tried hormone replacement therapy (still on it) and they adjusted her T levels at one point that made her super hot for me a couple years ago - I mean like 5 times in a 3 day period. I thought I died and went to heaven. But then easy come easy go - after a couple of months, back to rare interest. I've snooped - ain't nothing going on with her and I never had any reason to believe there was. Still, checked that box.

So recently after a night where the day felt like a great lead up to sex - lots of cuddle time, happy time, love talk, the typical love language she connects with, we go to bed and she starts to give me a bit of a handjob, then just falls asleep in the process! Really frustrating for me obviously, and we had a pretty big fight the next day. Same old crap - I say you don't want to have sex with me enough to keep me happy, and I really don't like living like this. She says we ARE intimate in so many ways in our lives, she just has a problem turning on the sex switch. So I said fine - let's just stop having sex so I won't be disappointed. I said I suppose you don't want me to be with another woman (nope!), or turn to porn (nope!), so I guess it's just up to me and my imagination (which is always been about her btw, until recently...) and for now, I'm just done with the disappointment and waiting game.

Strangely - I have felt at least a bit better just changing my sexpectations. We actually have had our typical intimate days and evenings, lots of kindness, lots of cuddling on the couch, but I've not been expecting sex so the let-down hasn't been there when we haven't had it for several weeks. She seems absolutely fine with it.... But truth is, I want it bad. I just don't want to repeat the same cycle with her, that deep and sad feeling of rejection when she's not there for me.

We are seeing a MC and have been for about 6 months (now remotely). I laid it on the line and said I need more sex or this won't work. Everything else is good in the relationship - we travel, we date, we laugh, we talk, we enjoy our family, but unless I can have more sex, I feel frustrated deep inside. We've been working on communication things mostly in the MC, but I recently reminded both women (wife and therapist) that the guy in the room is wired for more sex and can't feign complete bliss without it. Let's not lose track of that please...

I've had some recent experiences where a woman at my tennis club has been flirting with me. She is at least 20 years younger than me, cute as hell and looks amazing in her tennis skirt. I mean really good. I've never felt more tempted in my life. To now, I've remained faithful, but I may not be able to make it much longer. I think the POT (potential other woman) sensed my interest because she hasn't backed off and I haven't suggested she do so. Yes, I've flirted back and I've loved the slow burning buildup that seems to be there for both of us. I thought maybe she just needed some attention and would leave it at that (as in no sex). But just before the club got closed for the COVID lockdown, she said "Maybe we should play at a park sometime on a nice evening instead of coming to the club... I could put a couple of beers in a cooler and we could cool down with those before we go home?" I said that sounds great, and we both smiled a moment at each other, and left it at that. She's married with two kids and mentions her husband and kids a lot. She really seems involved and happy with them all. Maybe she is just like me? 

By my recent fantasy calculations, she seems like a really safe alternative to my solitary sex life. Kind of the perfect setup really. I mean, I always shower right after I get home from tennis... And I can read the writing on the wall - she is interested.

I'm afraid to cross that line but can't stop thinking that I can't wait for the club to reopen. :/

Am I really a terrible person for thinking I may go for it? At times I feel like I'm entitled to because my wife just won't deliver and I have told her so many times it's not fair for her to make unilateral changes to this marriage contract, but I know I know... I've allowed it by staying. 

Confused and a little intimidated, but the tension is building with both women for me, just in different ways. I just don't know if I can stop myself at this point. 

Maybe someone here can tell me of similar experience they've had, what they did, the outcome, or just help me get my head on straight.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Mylehigh,*

Please check your private messages (or "conversations"). You can find them by clicking on the icon in the top right of the screen and click on "conversations" in the list that pops up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mylehigh said:


> *Am I really a terrible person for thinking I may go for it? *At times I feel like I'm entitled to because my wife just won't deliver and I have told her so many times it's not fair for her to make unilateral changes to this marriage contract, but I know I know... I've allowed it by staying.


Yes you are being terrible thinking that you may go for it.

Tell your wife that you are thinking this. 

If you want to pick up women for sex, then be honorable and divorce you wife first.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

You can stop yourself. It’s not beyond your control. Don’t lie to yourself about that to make yourself more comfortable with choosing dishonesty. Avoiding situations where the temptation is present is something you can choose to do.

There is a big difference between lying to your wife, and telling your wife the only terms on which you are willing to remain married are one where you are free to have romantic relations with others — and that that is what you are going to do. Or, filing for divorce and setting yourself free to pursue relationship with some else who is also free.


Consult a lawyer if the open marriage discussion is the one you want to have, to see if there is something you can do to protect your interests should your wife later regret going along with it.

Having relationship with a married woman is inviting disaster into many lives. Not just yours, but your kids’ and her kids’. Projecting onto her a similarly “helpless” and dire marital situation is wishful thinking. She might simply be a serial cheater with no concern for anyone else but herself. In any case, why pursue someone who is married, encouraging her to be deceitful? The world is full of single women.

Personally, I don’t equate thinking about potentially doing something with actually doing it. I don’t think merely “thinking” about it makes you a terrible person. What you do or not do will make all the difference.

There’s more than one way forward where you can keep your self-respect, and the respect of your children.

Why flirt with disaster?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I have posted my story here: Why so many sexless marriages?
In the interest of brevity, I won't type it again.
I solved my issue through the fiat of assertion. I gave my wife three choices and made it clear that my choice was that I wanted to be with her and I wanted intimacy in my life. I told her that she was out of time, and if she didn't want to be with me that I could still find someone who did.
I laid it all on the line, and she chose marriage. Things during the last year are like they were when we were dating. We have been together almost 28 years, and will be married 26 years next month.
Only thing I'll say on your "Experience" is don't go breaking up families over a piece of ass. It's not worth it. Be honorable, show your resolve. If she doesn't step up, and work to improve intimacy and build a better marriage, divorce her.


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## Saibasu (Nov 3, 2016)

OK, so your about to cheat on your wife who is perfect for you in every way except for the frequency of sex (according to you)? Dont kid yourself with this men need more sex ******** or the "i cant control it" crap. Yes you can. And if you cheat on your wife, you are human garbage. DIVORCE HER, DO NOT CHEAT. Some women have more drastic issues after the change, she is not more in control of her hormones than you are of yours. I dont understand why so many people think "they just have to cheat because they cant help it", BULL. Be a MAN, stay honest to your wife OR LEAVE.

You certainly do not have to stay in a relationship that makes you unhappy, 

But remember..... The grass is NOT always greener on the other side.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Why did she go through all the hormone therapy? Her idea or yours? Is she committed to improving your sex life but just can't get there? What has the MC said about her lack of desire? The MC tries not to take sides. Does she have an individual counselor she sees? If she doesn't, she probably should. Most women who aren't really interested in trying to fix things wouldn't have gone through the hormone therapy.

Going after a woman who's also married, has kids... and you're thinking she's in the same situation as you... that sounds a lot like trying to rationalize your desire to step out on your marriage is OK. It's not. If you can't come to terms with your wife, don't cheat on her. Get a divorce and then discover that loneliness might be even worse than not enough sex.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Just ask your wife for an open marriage... see what she says.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Tdbo said:


> I have posted my story here: Why so many sexless marriages?
> In the interest of brevity, I won't type it again.
> I solved my issue through the fiat of assertion. I gave my wife three choices and made it clear that my choice was that I wanted to be with her and I wanted intimacy in my life. I told her that she was out of time, and if she didn't want to be with me that I could still find someone who did.
> I laid it all on the line, and she chose marriage. Things during the last year are like they were when we were dating. We have been together almost 28 years, and will be married 26 years next month.
> Only thing I'll say on your "Experience" is don't go breaking up families over a piece of ass. It's not worth it. Be honorable, show your resolve. If she doesn't step up, and work to improve intimacy and build a better marriage, divorce her.


That’s the kind of happy ending I’ve been trying to get for years. You are lucky.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Divorce her because she deserves my honoring our marriage contract or get iut... what about her breaking the understood foundation that a marriage includes maintaining a healthy and equally satisfying sex life?

She did the HRT for multiple reasons but yes, in part to try and help fix the low drive problem. Didn't stick with it because of some slightly unpleasant side effects. That is understandable but this is also a side effect.

Thanks for at least one person saying that thinking and doing are two different things.

A piece of ass may not be the long term solution but it sure seems like it would help fill an ever expanding void.

She and I have both been in IC for a couple of years working separately and together in MC. This is not for a lack of trying.

Seems like guys who have a satisfying sex like say with ease how I shouldn’t do it. Kind of like the bleeding heart liberals that have 7 figure jobs telling people who are losing everything to just stay home. And women will never understand fully how the framework of a man’s brain is wired and processes sex - love without sexual intimacy (when physically able) is not complete.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> love without sexual intimacy (when physically able) is not complete.


You'll find this is a highly debatable point, especially if you are the wife withholding sex...


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> Am I really a terrible person for thinking I may go for it?


No, you are a human person who is tempted. You are tempted in the same way all of us (yes, even me who is a "beta")
have opportunities to commit adultery. Let that word sink in. That's what it would be.



Mylehigh said:


> I feel like I'm entitled to because my wife just won't deliver


No, sir, you are not. You promised that you would love your wife and "keep yourself only unto her", for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. There is no wiggle room in that promise, absolutely no entitlement for you to do anything other than what you promised.



Mylehigh said:


> I just don't know if I can stop myself at this point.


Yes, you can. Do not see this woman again for any reason. Do not allow yourself to think about her. Especially, do not go anywhere private with her. Join another tennis club, take up golf, bird-watching, just don't go back where she is. Period.



Mylehigh said:


> she seems like a really safe alternative


No, sir, she is not "safe", and she is not an "alternative". Any woman outside your marriage is definitely not "safe", and you have no "alternative'. It is your wife, or no one. Period.

She is married with kids. Think about it, for a moment, how her husband is going to feel when he finds out about you. If you get involved with her, rest assured, he WILL find out. And, how about her children? What is an affair going to do to them when they find out ?

While you're at it, what is it going to do to your wife when she finds out ? Again, rest assured, she WILL find out.
And, your grown children ? How are they going to feel about you ?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> You'll find this is a highly debatable point, especially if you are a wife withholding sex...


Love (as in a marriage, that IS a sexual relationship) is not complete without sexual intimacy. That's why it's a marriage and not a friendship. If a wife tries to tell you otherwise it's because she wants to keep the other benefits of marriage and is trying to convince you to keep those benefits coming...in what is
just a friendship and not a marriage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Love (as in a marriage, that IS a sexual relationship) is not complete without sexual intimacy. That's why it's a marriage and not a friendship. If a wife tries to tell you otherwise it's because she wants to keep the other benefits of marriage and is trying to convince you to keep those benefits coming...in what is
> just a friendship and not a marriage.


Totally agree. The point is that many wives withholding sex often tell their husbands they are not entitled to sex. BTW, this is not my wife's opinion...


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Just ask your wife for an open marriage... see what she says.


He already did, more or less.


Mylehigh said:


> I said I suppose you don't want me to be with another woman (nope!),


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> Seems like guys who have a satisfying sex like say with ease how I shouldn’t do it. Kind of like the bleeding heart liberals that have 7 figure jobs telling people who are losing everything to just stay home. And women will never understand fully how the framework of a man’s brain is wired and processes sex - love without sexual intimacy (when physically able) is not complete.


Umm.... no. Not true whatsoever. I do not have a "satisfying sex life" and have thought many times about leaving. The last year, while we've gone over the issues she's had with intimacy, have been hell. And I'm telling you to, as you say, "just stay home."


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

TJW said:


> You promised that you would love your wife and "keep yourself only unto her", for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. There is no wiggle room in that promise, absolutely no entitlement for you to do anything other than what you promised.


This is an assumption. My vows never included anything of "foresaking all others" or "keep yourself only unto her". Different couples use different vows. Not everyone uses the "traditional" vows. He may or may not have used that vow. How would you actually know?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> Umm.... no. Not true whatsoever. I do not have a "satisfying sex life" and have thought many times about leaving. The last year, while we've gone over the issues she's had with intimacy, have been hell. And I'm telling you to, as you say, "just stay home."


OT... sorry! I think we are due an update from you?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> He already did, more or less.


ok, I think I missed it... well, if the OP is tempted to have an affair, then he should ask his wife for confirmation and then go for it (although a non married partner would be better...  )


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Many good points that a rational mind cannot disagree with.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Mylehigh said:


> Many good points that a rational mind cannot disagree with.


 I just wrote out a long edit to add to this post and it offered me to "save" it but when I tried to post it disappeared. Where is it??


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> I just wrote out a long edit to add to this post and it offered me to "save" it but when I tried to post it disappeared. Where is it??


In TAM's black hole...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

If you clicked on "save", try clicking on your profile top right and look under Bookmarks? It might be there...


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Ugh.. I'll try again...

She has joked more than once that maybe I need a younger, hot girlfriend. But no way would she be able to really handle that.

I also just wrote out that we have days where everything is great, I've given her usual compliments about how cute, pretty, gorgeous, hot... whatever the occasion may call for, in a loving and non-objectifying way. Not in a way that is saying let's go have sex. And we tell each other many times a day that we love each other - love ya, I love you, little hugs or kisses, full body embraces where she looks up at me as we stand in the kitchen with those "don't I look so cute" eyes (and yes, she does). And I read all of that as a red-blooded man with a very healthy T level would - she is green-lighting me. Then at the end of the day, we maybe watched a movie together under a blanket on the couch, or we went to an outdoor happy hour and had nice conversation and some laughs, you know the deal - me being the husband who enjoys time with his wife and her with me - and then we go to bed. I make some sort of gesture towards her that is clear in our language that I want her, and out comes the red light.

WTF!

It hurts, and if you've never made yourself completely open (or this could be viewed as vulnerable, depending on the outcome) and been rejected by someone you love, you don't get it. It sucks and damages a man to the core in a death of a thousand cuts.

I'm just pissed y'all. It does not compute.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> If you clicked on "save", try clicking on your profile top right and look under Bookmarks? It might be there...


Thanks but it wasn't there. Probably too windy anyway.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Mylehigh said:


> Hi all - interesting to read the posts on here. I've seen a few cut from the same cloth of what I'm about to say, but still felt like posting. Male, married 30 years, couple of grown kids, very attractive but sexually infrequent wife.
> 
> She can be super loving in so many ways in our marriage, but when it comes to sex, some kind of barrier is there. I'm a fit and healthy guy with a high sex drive our entire marriage. She has been hot and cold over the years, but since the 'change' mostly cold. Still when she does have the urge, it's intensely hot and extremely enjoyable. She always climaxes and makes sure I do too, even when it's been more difficult for me after resisting the early urges so I can keep it going strong for her. The only problem is frequency! There were years when she was only interested within a couple of days after her period, then the switch was flipped back off. And some months we missed the timing and waited another month! ~Ouch~
> 
> ...


As a poly, my advice to you will be much different from the others. But understand that I embrace the idea of _ethical _non-monogamy. Right now what you are comtemplating is not ethical, should you act upon it.

First let me confirm that you have as much right to get your needs met as your wife does. The question is how to do so within the bounds of your marrige. It might not be possible. That is what you have to determine, the two of you together. You have to decide which is going to take priority. The thing that most people don't want to face is that being in an incompatible marriage is more damaging to both parties than seperating is. Now I don't mean to imply that a compatible marriage is one where it happens easy and there are no problems. Marriage, hell any relationship, takes work, planning and communication, among other skills. Lack of these skills is not what makes a marriage incompatible. Untenable maybe, but not incompatible. I too am interested in what the MC has said on this, assuming that you are willing to share such.

As to this other woman. First and foremost, you need to make sure your wife knows what you plan to do, assuming that you decide to do so. She is your mate, and deserves to know if you are seeing anyone else, physically or emotionally, besides her. This doesn't mean she has a right to know the details of your time with others. But she has the right to be informed that you are not being monogamous. This is part of that ethical bit. Furthermore, you need to confirm, first with the other woman, and then with her husband, that she is also engaging in ethical non-monogamy. Again, he does not have a right to know what happens when you and his wife are together, although that may be something they have agreed upon, so that is something that you are entitled to know. In the end, don't go behind backs! Neither you wife's nor the partners of any potential partner.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> It does not compute.


My hunch is that your wife has no sex drive at all. Maybe she's done with sex anyway. She doesn't think about it, she doesn't want it. If this is true, it is indeed upsetting she is not prepared to put any effort into the marriage to please you a bit. You are married after all. And it is soul-destroying. I've been there.

There is another possibility, obviously. That she is not into you anymore, i.e. she is not sexually attracted to you. She's lost her sexual attraction to you. You are just a brother, a friend now.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> My hunch is that your wife has no sex drive at all. Maybe she's done with sex anyway. She doesn't think about it, she doesn't want it. If this is true, it is indeed upsetting she is not prepared to put any effort into the marriage to please you a bit. You are married after all. And it is soul-destroying. I've been there.
> 
> There is another possibility, obviously. That she is not into you anymore, i.e. she is not sexually attracted to you. She's lost her sexual attraction to you. You are just a brother, a friend now.


I totally agree with what IA says here.

Don't cheat. Just stop going around and around about this marital issue and confront it with purpose. Be honest with her. Marriage is a sexual relationship. If you two aren't going to have a regular mutual sex life, then be divorced and officially become the _just friends_ that you really are. 

THEN pursue a single woman.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> As a poly, my advice to you will be much different from the others. But understand that I embrace the idea of _ethical _non-monogamy. Right now what you are comtemplating is not ethical, should you act upon it.
> 
> First let me confirm that you have as much right to get your needs met as your wife does. The question is how to do so within the bounds of your marrige. It might not be possible. That is what you have to determine, the two of you together. You have to decide which is going to take priority. The thing that most people don't want to face is that being in an incompatible marriage is more damaging to both parties than seperating is. Now I don't mean to imply that a compatible marriage is one where it happens easy and there are no problems. Marriage, hell any relationship, takes work, planning and communication, among other skills. Lack of these skills is not what makes a marriage incompatible. Untenable maybe, but not incompatible. I too am interested in what the MC has said on this, assuming that you are willing to share such.
> 
> As to this other woman. First and foremost, you need to make sure your wife knows what you plan to do, assuming that you decide to do so. She is your mate, and deserves to know if you are seeing anyone else, physically or emotionally, besides her. This doesn't mean she has a right to know the details of your time with others. But she has the right to be informed that you are not being monogamous. This is part of that ethical bit. Furthermore, you need to confirm, first with the other woman, and then with her husband, that she is also engaging in ethical non-monogamy. Again, he does not have a right to know what happens when you and his wife are together, although that may be something they have agreed upon, so that is something that you are entitled to know. In the end, don't go behind backs! Neither you wife's nor the partners of any potential partner.


Well said - thanks.

The MC has had us working on really listening and hearing what the other says kind of stuff. It seems to keep us grounded in times of stress, but not solving the sex issue.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> My hunch is that your wife has no sex drive at all. Maybe she's done with sex anyway. She doesn't think about it, she doesn't want it. If this is true, it is indeed upsetting she is not prepared to put any effort into the marriage to please you a bit. You are married after all. And it is soul-destroying. I've been there.
> 
> There is another possibility, obviously. That she is not into you anymore, i.e. she is not sexually attracted to you. She's lost her sexual attraction to you. You are just a brother, a friend now.


I suppose there's the chance that either or both are true.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Livvie said:


> I totally agree with what IA says here.
> 
> Don't cheat. Just stop going around and around about this marital issue and confront it with purpose. Be honest with her. Marriage is a sexual relationship. If you two aren't going to have a regular mutual sex life, then be divorced and officially become the _just friends_ that you really are.
> 
> THEN pursue a single woman.


Thanks for your reply. I've been explicitly honest with her about my unhappiness with our sex life and have confronted it with purpose. It is because of my initiative that we went into MC. And when we got there, it was a bit awkward for my wife to hear me tell a third party about our weak sex life, but I did so. I'm not going there for window dressing.

I try to imagine life after a divorce from her. It's so hard to imagine our family time being changed like that. I feel like I am at least a bit hostage to that part of our lives together, and I think she knows that. 

She has issues with anxiety and is a diagnosed perfectionist. I come back to this again here - she's really attractive. Mid-50s, within maybe 10 lbs of her weight when we married (as am I), yet she still has a negative body image. For decades it was - I want to lose 5 lbs... I'm like, seriously?? what the heck difference would that make? To her, it is an imperfection. To me, she's a freaking smoke show.

Her anxiety and perfectionism - according to her individual therapist - is at least partially connected to her childhood experience of divorced parents. A pre-teen takes that kind of thing pretty personally. She doesn't seem to have the stamina to work that out and get better.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Mylehigh said:


> Divorce her because she deserves my honoring our marriage contract or get iut... what about her breaking the understood foundation that a marriage includes maintaining a healthy and equally satisfying sex life?
> 
> She did the HRT for multiple reasons but yes, in part to try and help fix the low drive problem. Didn't stick with it because of some slightly unpleasant side effects. That is understandable but this is also a side effect.
> 
> ...


I think what you have here is an issue that is going to be solved either by her going to IC, or she is flat out going to have to realize that she values your marriage, and you as a spouse and doesn't want to lose either.
I don't know if you read the link to my story, but we never had day one of either IC or MC. Lack of sex was an issue for the last seven years, but the first 18 were great. I went through all the gyrations you did. She would promise me sex, and then back out at the last moment. At times, it was like a game to her, and it really pissed me off. There were a lot of things that she was going through, and I tried to play the good spouse and help her through them. Well, we know what position good guys finish in right?
She was good at pushing the envelope, but she knew the day that she pushed it clean off the table, that there was only one way of coming back. To her credit, she stepped up and did. HOWEVER, SHE KNEW IT WAS THE END OF THE ROAD. That, unfortunately, is probably what it is going to take for you. I truly was prepared to walk, and she knew it.
As far as my comment about a POA, you really shouldn't do it with the one you were focused in on. One of the options proposed to my wife was a postnup calling for a F Buddy (I don't even know if that is doable or not, but it sure as hell got her attention.) I would never go behind my wife's back on something like that (even if I meant it as a viable option) but even if I did, it is not going to be with someone's wife. I am not going to be the guy that breaks up someone elses marriage. I am not going to be the guy that breaks up some kid's family. There are plenty of single, divorced, widowed women who could fill that gap. Besides, how would you like it if some guy moved in on your wife? I doubt you would. 
Therefore, as was already stated, do so in an ethical and above board way (if it comes to that.)
I was successful because I created a true sense of urgency. You have to decide if 1) you can do that and 2) if you can really walk that path.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Tdbo said:


> I am not going to be the guy that breaks up someone elses marriage. I am not going to be the guy that breaks up some kid's family. There are plenty of single, divorced, widowed women who could fill that gap. Besides, how would you like it if some guy moved in on your wife? I doubt you would.


Keep in mind that there are actually couples out there that are already open. It's one of the reasons I put out that he needs to get the other husband's ackownledgement directly. Or wife's if it's a same sex couple.But with this comment, I will add, if one is going to select a married woman, one who is already in an established open marriage would be better. Then you know that you will not be the cause if a subesequent breakup occurs.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> Keep in mind that there are actually couples out there that are already open. It's one of the reasons I put out that he needs to get the other husband's ackownledgement directly. Or wife's if it's a same sex couple.But with this comment, I will add, if one is going to select a married woman, one who is already in an established open marriage would be better. Then you know that you will not be the cause if a subesequent breakup occurs.


Good point.
Fortunately, I did not have to go down that road.
I hope I never do.
Everyone has boundaries, and I guess that's one of mine.
The only person's wife I would get it on with would answer to the name of Tdbo.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mylehigh said:


> Seems like guys who have a satisfying sex like say with ease how I shouldn’t do it. Kind of like the bleeding heart liberals that have 7 figure jobs telling people who are losing everything to just stay home. And women will never understand fully how the framework of a man’s brain is wired and processes sex - love without sexual intimacy (when physically able) is not complete.


Projecting onto others whatever helps you rationalize what you want to do?

Or, maybe you understand exactly how some respondents here are the polar opposite of the characterizations you provide?

Either way, doesn’t bode well.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Your temptation for the other woman has nothing to do with your married sex life. Instead, it has everything to do with your own integrity.

Do you understand that you're playing the victim here, when you're not? Do you understand that there is no excuse for cheating?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Mylehigh said:


> Ugh.. I'll try again...
> 
> She has joked more than once that maybe I need a younger, hot girlfriend. But no way would she be able to really handle that.
> 
> ...


Stop. Just stop.

"Wife, I can't stay married to you. It's as simple as that. I love you and I committed to be monogamous with you, but that wasn't a commitment of celibacy. So I want a divorce, as amicably and as easily as possible. I need to be free to find someone I can be in love with, but also have that relationship include sex. Here's my lawyer's number."

Done. I know it's scary but real life means making decisions. She can't have it half way, and neither can you.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mylehigh said:


> It hurts, and if you've never made yourself completely open (or this could be viewed as vulnerable, depending on the outcome) and been rejected by someone you love, you don't get it. It sucks and damages a man to the core in a death of a thousand cuts.


Many of us do get it. That’s why we bother to be here.

It’s not you. It’s her — at least until such time she verbalizes something different that rings true upon careful reflection.

It’s important to fight the toll it takes on you, every way you can, for multiple reasons. Not the least of which is attitude — which can either help or hinder you, depending.

I wish I had solid advice to offer on how to lessen the impact on yourself, but I don’t.

I can say sometimes how I frame the problem makes a big difference, and allows me to take the rejection less personally. Also helps me to remember I can walk away at the time of my choosing.

There is an irony with finding ways to cope, though. The more one is able to cope, the less intense the feeling is to leave. Maybe it helps to set a deadline for oneself.

You mentioned her anxiety. My default behavior in the presence of another’s anxiety is to enable her to flee from it, ie. to enable her to avoid that which gives rise to it. That’s usually much easier than refusing to be moved by it. The downside is the other then has no incentive or reason to adapt to and force a healthier resolution. I’ve wondered, in the case of my wife, if I’ve deferred too much to her anxiety over intimacy and sex.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Mylehigh, remember the old adage: Sex comes to women through love. Love comes to men through sex. You just don't have much love. From what you describe about your marriage, it seems
like you are cohabiting with your sister.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mylehigh said:


> Seems like guys who have a satisfying sex like say with ease how I shouldn’t do it. Kind of like the bleeding heart liberals that have 7 figure jobs telling people who are losing everything to just stay home. *And women will never understand fully how the framework of a man’s brain is wired and processes sex - love without sexual intimacy (when physically able) is not complete.*


Do not paint all women with one brush. Not all women are like your wife. Actually very few are.

Many women go through the same thing you are while married to a man who does not want sex with them. A good number of the women who come here have the same issue. I divorced my husband and this was a major issue that broke the marriage.

Men chose to make their marriages sexless as about the same rate that women do.

Your situation is not unique. You and your wife have very different sex drives.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I totally agree with what IA says here.


You actually agree with me?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes IA I do!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Yes IA I do!


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> Do not paint all women with one brush. Not all women are like your wife. Actually very few are.


I know it is not only women who have low sex drives. But there is a difference between genders.

My statement you highlighted in your quote should have had the words "in general" after the word women. So I agree, you cannot paint *all* women with one brush and my wording should have been more careful. But I suggest the same for you, as your statement that "actually very few are" like my wife, is pretty far off the mark.

*..."Desire usually (but not always) wanes with age.* In general, sex drive decreases gradually with age in both men and women, but women are two to three times more likely to be affected by a decline in sex drive as they age. Reduced sex drive becomes much more common in women starting in their late 40s and 50s. The effect of age also differs by individual: some women experience a big decrease in sexual desire beginning in their midlife years, others notice no change, and a few report increased interest in sex at midlife. Those women whose desire increases may feel liberated by their new freedom from contraception or by newly found privacy if their children have recently left home."





Decreased Desire, Sexual Side Effects of Menopause | The North American Menopause Society, NAMS







www.menopause.org








PieceOfSky said:


> Projecting onto others whatever helps you rationalize what you want to do?
> 
> Or, maybe you understand exactly how some respondents here are the polar opposite of the characterizations you provide?
> 
> Either way, doesn’t bode well.


I don't know your gender, but I'll stand by my statement that I believe you are referring to.

If you are a man, you will never *fully* understand how it feels to be a woman, and vice versa. Genders are wired differently at a primal level, and try as we may, it is impossible to FULLY understand how processing works in the opposite gender's brain.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I did not clearly express what I was thinking.


Mylehigh said:


> Seems like guys who have a satisfying sex like say with ease how I shouldn’t do it.


Multiple posters with very unsatisfying sex lives (or none at all) have said the same thing here. I am one.




Mylehigh said:


> Kind of like the bleeding heart liberals that have 7 figure jobs telling people who are losing everything to just stay home.


This is an analogy. I’m guessing you didn’t mean to suggest it has any bearing on the choice you are pondering, but maybe this issue is on your mind?




Mylehigh said:


> And women will never understand fully how the framework of a man’s brain is wired andprocesses sex - love without sexual intimacy (when physically able) is not complete.


Doesn’t match what I’ve heard some women say, and I take them at their word. To discount their experience is to invalidate. IME, debating generalizations here tends to leave people feeling invalidated too.

To believe there is a gender thing going on here, in a sense lowers the bar for our opposite-gender partners, doesn’t it?

In any case, it seems there is an abundance of women who understand the sex-love connection well enough and care enough to make their partners feel loved completely. There are happily married men.

There have been a couple of women on TAM who were the lower desiring spouse who turned their sex-lives and marriages around. What they seemed to have in common was an ability to have empathy for their respective husband not feeling loved because of the lack of sex.

That said, how to help your wife acquire that empathy — I’m not sure it can be done. I’ve regretted some of the times I tried to convey to my wife how emotionally significant sex, or even her bothering with sex, is to me. It’s difficult to do without seeming needy. Maybe that’s something the MC can facilitate.

If I had it to do over again, I would make it clear —like I understand Tdbo and some others have done — that I’m not going to accept a life that’s not full of what I want and need. And let her back out from there what the value of sexual intimacy is to me.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

PieceOfSky said:


> This is an analogy. I’m guessing you didn’t mean to suggest it has any bearing on the choice you are pondering, but maybe this issue is on your mind?


Right - it's been an obvious pattern related to COVID. Just an analogy here. 


> Doesn’t match what I’ve heard some women say, and I take them at their word. To discount their experience is to invalidate. IME, debating generalizations here tends to leave people feeling invalidated too.
> 
> To believe there is a gender thing going on here, in a sense lowers the bar for our opposite-gender partners, doesn’t it?


Nope - it's real. See my reply to Ele Girl.



> In any case, it seems there is an abundance of women who understand the sex-love connection well enough and care enough to make their partners feel loved completely. There are happily married men.


Of course... My statement did not exclude this possiblity.



> There have been a couple of women on TAM who were the lower desiring spouse who turned their sex-lives and marriages around. What they seemed to have in common was an ability to have empathy for their respective husband not feeling loved because of the lack of sex.


That is great for those HD spouses. I'd venture a guess that is a rare turnaround.



> That said, how to help your wife acquire that empathy — I’m not sure it can be done. I’ve regretted some of the times I tried to convey to my wife how emotionally significant sex, or even her bothering with sex, is to me. It’s difficult to do without seeming needy. Maybe that’s something the MC can facilitate.


Yes - working hard on it. I've purchased books, taken her to counseling, had countless heart to hearts... and it's not like we never had sex. I hate to kiss and tell, but last night we had amazing sex. We had a great day together and I did my best to apply no pressure, just a little flirting now and then, and we exploded together in bed at the end of the night. She was totally into it and it was awesome for both of us. She reminded me this morning how great it was for her and we had that closeness I miss in its absence.

It's a matter of frequency that kills me. And it's not always as great as last night, but she is capable of opening up like that and I think if she could successfully manage her anxiety and stay present, this could happen way more often. Even last night, the first 10 minutes of so was her being flinchy to being touched and saying sorry... and then she opened up and was 1000% into all forms of touchiing that occurred. THAT is what I am talking about. That is what I need and cannot stand to be deprived of. With more of that, the cutie at the tennis club would be another face in the crowd. That sounds harsh but it is real.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mylehigh said:


> Even last night, the first 10 minutes of so was her being flinchy to being touched and saying sorry... and then she opened up and was 1000% into all forms of touchiing that occurred.


Has she any awareness that something changed 10 minutes into it? Has she any perspective on what that can mean to you both?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> she is capable of opening up like that and I think if she could successfully manage her anxiety and stay present, this could happen way more often.


This is a common fallacy. That because she can do it once, she can do it repeatedly. Think of this like golf. Even terrible players can on occasion hit an excellent shot. That does not imply they can do so consistently.

Also, when you say "manage her anxiety", you make it sound simple. People who suffer from anxiety often find it is very difficult to eliminate. It is literally the way their brains are wired: to notice any little thing out of place (or where they do not immediately understand how or why it got to that place), and to feel threatened by anything that is out of place or not understood. Historically was a good survival mechanism for humans, which is why it persists in a substantial portion of the population.

Moreover, the only person who can learn to manage her anxiety is her. To do that, she has to want to become a less anxious, more relaxed person. Deep down, she may feel that her anxiety is what keeps her safe and in control. She may not want to relax, because to her that may cause her to feel vulnerable, unprepared, foolish, subject to outside influences, etc. Do not fool yourself into thinking that there would be no cost to her in becoming more relaxed. Or that you are asking her to give up something that is entirely bad and wrong and unhelpful. It isn't.

Finally, do not discount the possibility that she may be one of the many many people who suffer from rape or abuse. And she may have never learned to deal with it. What you are asking her to do might require her to dive back into that cesspool. In order to work through it and reconnect with parts of her sexuality that she cut herself off from to protect herself. It may be a very difficult and painful process for her. She may love you and wish she could be what you need, but still not be willing to crawl through the slime to get to where you need her to be.

That doesn't make her a bad person. But it makes her a bad fit for the role of Mylehigh's wife.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Holdingontoit said:


> This is a common fallacy. That because she can do it once, she can do it repeatedly. Think of this like golf. Even terrible players can on occasion hit an excellent shot. That does not imply they can do so consistently.
> 
> Also, when you say "manage her anxiety", you make it sound simple. People who suffer from anxiety often find it is very difficult to eliminate. It is literally the way their brains are wired: to notice any little thing out of place (or where they do not immediately understand how or why it got to that place), and to feel threatened by anything that is out of place or not understood. Historically was a good survival mechanism for humans, which is why it persists in a substantial portion of the population.
> 
> ...


I can see that you well understand the struggles and sources of anxiety. I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

She has been to IC for anxiety and we have struggled with its various manifestations all of our married lives, but more so in the past 10 years or so. She has seen 3 different counselors, used workbooks, practiced mindfulness as best she could, taken 'me time' out of her busy days, tried different meds, had severe anxiety attacks about various incidents or situations... we've been through it all and have worked on in as a couple and her as an individual.

I realize that a brief post in a forum where I say if only she could manage her anxiety does make it sound simple, but trust me - I know better. Way better. But we wouldn't have worked on it all these years if we didn't both believe there is hope for her to manage it better. We know that everyone has anxiety and that it is a natural response to various stimuli. It's that management part that gets tricky and in some cases, virtually impossible for some. We all manage our anxiety to some degree to survive the modern life. Some clearly have more trouble than others.

I have very gently inquired with her probably 2 or 3 times over our the span of our relationship if she was ever abused. I've known her since she was a teen, and I really don't think she has been and she has assured me that she would tell me if she had. Actually, I most recently asked her about it maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago.

I'm not sure what you imagine the cost to be if she were able to be more relaxed. Seems like it would bring her many benefits.

You are spot on that one of her manifestations of her anxiety is noticing 'things out of place'. Happens all the time. She gets distracted by little things off to the side if we are sitting and talking; say a piece of peeling paint, a board that seems warped, a shingle that looks like it is coming free... you name it, she sees it. But she is also gets caught up in rumination and more often than not takes things she just put together back apart to do all over again. Or take something back to the store. Or wish she said something at a certain time after we were somewhere with other people. Or worries that she may have said something that someone misunderstood... my hand is cramping but I could go on. And on.

I love her and I love how she was last night and I love how the two of us feel together today. But this too shall pass, and she will become harder to reach and the intimacy batteries will wane and the charger will be misplaced for just a little too long... wash rinse repeat.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Mylehigh said:


> I can see that you well understand the struggles and sources of anxiety. I appreciate your thoughtful reply.
> 
> She has been to IC for anxiety and we have struggled with its various manifestations all of our married lives, but more so in the past 10 years or so. She has seen 3 different counselors, used workbooks, practiced mindfulness as best she could, taken 'me time' out of her busy days, tried different meds, had severe anxiety attacks about various incidents or situations... we've been through it all and have worked on in as a couple and her as an individual.
> 
> ...


Listen, you wrote that no one can understand from your small post what is going on. 

Actually, I can. Not ever single facet, but most of this. As a layman with YEARS of experience dealing with mental health... I have to be honest, this will not get better.

If is was going to get better it would have, sorry. I think, you are way too close to the situation to understand what is going on with her. 

I think the has WAY, WAY, WAY more problems than anxiety. Good only know what they are, but it is more than that.

You are so close that you don't even understand how crazy your wife is. I know people don't like that word, but that is the word. Further, because you are her care giver, you are enabling her in many ways. If you cannot see this, you really need to. 

Fact of the matter is, you need to divorce. It is wrong to bring your children up in this environment. I know you think you are doing the right thing. Further, you don't know how far she is from going off the rails and really hurting someone. 

Your problems are not with sex and intimacy, it is with your wife's mental health, which you cannot fix. 

You need to save yourself, I have lived it, it hurt my kids to be around it, and it almost killed me... 

I am sorry to be so blunt.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

BluesPower said:


> Listen, you wrote that no one can understand from your small post what is going on.
> 
> Actually, I can. Not ever single facet, but most of this. As a layman with YEARS of experience dealing with mental health... I have to be honest, this will not get better.
> 
> ...


Holy moly! That is a fascinating assessment you made there. Truly, as objective as I can be, I mean it - fascinating.

To say she has WAY WAY WAY more problems than anxiety from reading this thread or post is, well, kind of shocking. I mean, she is a high-functioning adult who loves her family more than anything (we have adult kids with young grandchildren), is extremely creative and entrepreneurial, college educated, keeps herself very healthy in body, generous, thoughtful, smart... I could go on and on. She's no whacko by any means. She just doesn't desire sexual intimacy to the degree I do and it is a problem that if I were to just align myself with her level of desire, all is well (for her). She just has a high desire partner that is going sexually stir crazy and misses having the closeness that our sex brings when it is there. Others have said here that I am living with my sister most of the time. I think that rings more true than I ever would like to envision. (yuk) The lack of consistent and open sexual intimacy from her leaves me feeling empty and wondering what my life could be like with someone else, but not fearing for my life or worrying about her harming anyone in her family.

I understand that a person can be way too close to see things clearly. No doubt I suffer from that to a degree.

Aren't we all at least a little 'crazy'? I can't see how you think she may hurt someone at some point - going off the rails? Do you mean physically? Maybe I am missing the point.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Does she get anxious over the possibility of having sex? Do you think that is part of the reduced frequency?

Why was she in a state where she fell asleep after activities started? Does she drink significantly, or take sleeping pills? Work to exhaustion? (Stories from my life, I’ll spare you all from).

Btw, one other reason to not cheat is if you do pull the plug, it’d be so much easier if you can walk away with your head held high and keep your children’s respect. No one will give you any credit for the trying to make it work and hanging in there so long, if you blow it up with dishonesty at the very end. Seems far easier to just file for divorce one day, and tell your wife you consider yourself free.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I have to chime in, here. My wife has mental issues (OCD - Pure O, anxiety and depression) too. She's been on anti-depressants for years. Our trouble in the bedroom coincided with her starting the ADs. She had no libido. This is not surprising. Although her OCD could have been "cured" with therapy, she refused to go. Mental illness has played a massive role in the disintegration of our marriage - and also my inability to deal with it, together with total lack of communication from my wife. Basically, she didn't have enough capacity to deal with her job, the kids and me. What I'm getting at: do not underestimate the role of mental illness - anxiety in your case. It's difficult, but I think you will have to accept it and deal with it. The only alternative is divorce. This will destroy your wife.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

PieceOfSky said:


> Does she get anxious over the possibility of having sex? Do you think that is part of the reduced frequency?


No, no anxious feelings leading up to sex. Never have I seen any indication of this.



> Why was she in a state where she fell asleep after activities started? Does she drink significantly, or take sleeping pills? Work to exhaustion? (Stories from my life, I’ll spare you all from).


She’s not a drinker, drugs etc. Not at all. Every now and then she will have one drink and half of it stays in the glass. Unfortunately... She’d probably be more fun if she drank more!



> Btw, one other reason to not cheat is if you do pull the plug, it’d be so much easier if you can walk away with your head held high and keep your children’s respect. No one will give you any credit for the trying to make it work and hanging in there so long, if you blow it up with dishonesty at the very end. Seems far easier to just file for divorce one day, and tell your wife you consider yourself free.


Great point.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I have to chime in, here. My wife has mental issues (OCD - Pure O, anxiety and depression) too. She's been on anti-depressants for years. Our trouble in the bedroom coincided with her starting the ADs. She had no libido. This is not surprising. Although her OCD could have been "cured" with therapy, she refused to go. Mental illness has played a massive role in the disintegration of our marriage - and also my inability to deal with it, together with total lack of communication from my wife. Basically, she didn't have enough capacity to deal with her job, the kids and me. What I'm getting at: do not underestimate the role of mental illness - anxiety in your case. It's difficult, but I think you will have to accept it and deal with it. The only alternative is divorce. This will destroy your wife.


Sounds like you have a lot on your plate there. I’m sure that is very hard.

My wife has sought help in many ways but just hasn’t had the long-term benefits we’ve hoped for. When she tried drugs, they prevented her from achieving orgasms which was never a problem before so she stopped those after trying numerous options.i should add she also had other side effects from other drugs, difficulty sleeping, weight gain, etc. she just never wanted to tolerate side effects for the potential benefits. As I said before, she also has discussed low libido with doctors and they’ve tried adjust her hormone therapy... in the long-term, not helping although there were a few episodes of improvement. 

We certainly have tried to deal with it but it’s a very worthy opponent to be sure.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Mylehigh said:


> You are spot on that one of her manifestations of her anxiety is noticing 'things out of place'. Happens all the time. She gets distracted by little things off to the side if we are sitting and talking; say a piece of peeling paint, a board that seems warped, a shingle that looks like it is coming free... you name it, she sees it. But she is also gets caught up in rumination and more often than not takes things she just put together back apart to do all over again. Or take something back to the store. Or wish she said something at a certain time after we were somewhere with other people. Or worries that she may have said something that someone misunderstood...


This sounds like it could be ADD or OCD or something, or a combination of such disorders. Has she ever been screened for any? If not that might be why it's been hard to treat the anxiety. Don't get me wrong, I know that you have mentioned a lot of things tried, and there might have been things tried that you have not explicetly mentioned. But you never know when someone might stumble across that one thing that slipped your (collective) notice.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> This sounds like it could be ADD or OCD


Sounds like OCD to me...


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Mylehigh said:


> Sounds like you have a lot on your plate there. I’m sure that is very hard.
> 
> My wife has sought help in many ways but just hasn’t had the long-term benefits we’ve hoped for. When she tried drugs, they prevented her from achieving orgasms which was never a problem before so she stopped those after trying numerous options.i should add she also had other side effects from other drugs, difficulty sleeping, weight gain, etc. she just never wanted to tolerate side effects for the potential benefits. As I said before, *she also has discussed low libido with doctors and they’ve tried adjust her hormone therapy.*.. in the long-term, not helping although there were a few episodes of improvement.
> 
> We certainly have tried to deal with it but it’s a very worthy opponent to be sure.


When you are talking about doctors adjusting her hormones - going to ask a real dumb question - what doctors?

Are you talking about general practitioner, gynecologist, urologist, endocrinologist?

If it's anybody other than an endocrinologist, she needs to switch asap.
All the other doctors do not specialize in how hormones work in the body.

As a point to note, if she has hormone issues, sex won't be on the ticket.
It's not that she doesn't want it, the lack of the correct hormones and hormone levels prevent her from even thinking about it.

Unless you have had issues with hormones, this won't be believable nor make sense.

Ask her this - 
While on the Hormone Replacement Therapy, excluding side effects, did she feel normal and/or complete?
While off HRT, does she feel "off" - meaning is there something missing or just not quite 100% that she just can't put her finger on?
While off HRT - does she not feel complete?

She needs to get with a good doctor (more than likely an endocrinologist) that can balance out her treatment so she:
1) Wants sex
2) Has no side effects
3) starts to feel complete


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mylehigh said:


> We certainly have tried to deal with it but it’s a very worthy opponent to be sure.


You need to understand that her mental problems occupy a large part of her life and that they will always come first.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Sounds like OCD to me...


I think so too, but having ADD myself, and having been friends with OCD and Apsberger people, I know that there is a lot of symptom overlap and sometimes one can seem like the other. So I would rather shotgun some possibilities and then rule out what it's not, than fail to take a possibility into account.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

snerg said:


> When you are talking about doctors adjusting her hormones - going to ask a real dumb question - what doctors?
> 
> Are you talking about general practitioner, gynecologist, urologist, endocrinologist?
> 
> ...


To springboard off of this, it might take multiple tries to find out what works for her as well. My one wife has cluster headaches, and she has tried several methods that have worked for others, but has yet to find anything that works on her.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

Some interesting thoughts you all have about OCD, ADD, etc. From what I know of these conditions and based on professional assessments she has had from three therapists and a trusted medical doctor she has seen for years, she does not have ADD or OCD. Her diagnosis has consistently been generalized anxiety disorder by all.

She has discussed her low libido numerous times with her gyn and her general practitioner over the past few years. It was the gyn that put her on HRT during perimenopause and menopause stages, making some adjustments along the way. She's never been to an endo. That is an interesting suggestion possibly worth pursuing. 

Thanks to you all for your efforts to help.


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## Mylehigh (Jul 8, 2019)

snerg said:


> Ask her this -
> While on the Hormone Replacement Therapy, excluding side effects, did she feel normal and/or complete?
> While off HRT, does she feel "off" - meaning is there something missing or just not quite 100% that she just can't put her finger on?
> While off HRT - does she not feel complete?
> ...





snerg said:


> When you are talking about doctors adjusting her hormones - going to ask a real dumb question - what doctors?
> 
> Are you talking about general practitioner, gynecologist, urologist, endocrinologist?
> 
> ...


She has never seen an endo - her HRT was by gyn. I may suggest and endo.

While on HRT she did want sex for a while, but it passed after a few months. She generally feels well now and doesn't really think she needs HRT adjustments. She pretty much chalks up her low libido to her anxiety and stress about our current financial circumstances (I just got laid off). We have $$ to hold us over for at least 8 to 10 months before we would have to dig into retirement funds, so I'm not too worried and outwardly on a day to day basis she doesn't focus on it. But we both want me to get a job soon!


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