# Her anger is driving me away



## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

So here is my story. 

Married for 16 years, in our early 40's, 2 daughters 14 and 9. My wife has not worked in almost 14 years, we agreed that she would raise the kids and I would work. 

Well the kids have been raised superbly and we have done very well financially.

The problem is that I thought I was doing everything right...came straight home after work, sent flowers without occasion, brought home presents, took her out as much as I could, complimented her, did as much housework as I could, cooked and looked after the kids at every opportunity. In spite of all this she has become more and more angry when arounfd me. She speaks to me if I am a misbehaving dog, never initiates sex, no touching, no saying "I love you" (unless I say it first), no kissing or even hugs. She does not ever want to spend any time with just the two of us. We are completely disconnected.

I am in better shape than when got married (marathon runner), dress well and can still attract women (not interested in having an affair). So I don't think that my appearance should be a factor in her complete disdain for me. 

I am fairly easy going, not controlling at all and always eager to find ways to make her life easier.

Every time we fight about her complete lack of affection or appreciation; things between us are fantastic but only last for a few days at best. The only explanation she can offer is that she is resentful of something that I might have said in frustration a long time ago and she just can't let it go.

So I am confused and frustrated as to why she would be always angry and never wanting to spend any time together and the complete lack of intimacy. I have told her that she is pushing me out the door, it doesn't seem to sink in for her.

Am I wrong in now feeling resentful after all that I have done to give her the "perfect life" she can't be a loving wife???

I have been to MC on my own, she refuses to go.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

I am ready to walk out on the marriage but not the kids.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Reg said:


> Am I wrong in now feeling resentful that after all that I have done to give her the "perfect life" she can't be a loving wife???


Yes, allowing yourself to feel resentful is not good for you or your marriage. Forgiveness is the antidote for resentment and maybe you can model this for your wife to follow since she appears to need some help in this area.

Being over 40 with two kids and being a sahm for over 14 year, you wife is subject to emotional stresses that are far and away in excess of her ability to cope. It's up to you to make up the difference. I would suggest going on regular dates as a starter


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I can relate to what your wife may be going through. Therefore, I think a great starting place would be to read the book, _The Five Love Languages_, by Gary Chapman. What you describe is exactly what that book addresses. 

She may also be dealing with depression and/or stress issues. In my situation the stress level had certainly driven my anger level to the boiling point. I had everything in life, but didn't have peace and didn't feel loved. It's funny that I no longer have material things, but I have peace and feel much more appreciated by those around me.

Hope you find a solution.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

Date nights are extremly rare. She makes it painfully obvious that it is not a joy to go out as a couple. When we do manage to go out she just sits there looking miserable.

I do appreciate your advice. I am just at my wits end!

I see my friend's wives who aren't treated half as nicely or have the level of lifestyle that she enjoys, they are very affectionate and appreciative of every little thing that thier husbands do.

I get nothing!!!


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

I am ALWAYS suspicious when I read a post that basically says, "I'm perfect and my partner is the spawn of satan". Seldom, in my experience, is that accurate ... although rarely it is. To your specific points.

*The problem is that I thought I was doing everything right*
Would your wife agree. What happens when you show her that line in this post?

*I am fairly easy going, not controlling at all and always eager to find ways to make her life easier.
*
Same question. Would your wife agree? 

*The only explanation she can offer is that she is resentful of something that I might have said in frustration a long time ago and she just can't let it go.*
And why aren't you taking her at face value? Is your wife an untrustworthy person? As I understand it, what she has said is that you committed some sin at some point in the past and you will never be forgiven for it. It sounds pretty clear to me.... assuming you are relaying this accurately. How do you feel about living in the doghouse for the rest of your life?

*I have told her that she is pushing me out the door, it doesn't seem to sink in for her.*
conclusion: she doesn't care about pushing you out the door. Are you OK with that? As an alternate conclusion, she doesn't believe that you'll go through with it so she doesn't care. Either one indicates that she doesn't care about you.

*Am I wrong in now feeling resentful*
Again, assuming everything you have written is correct, then I'd have divorced her long ago. You're certainly "less wrong" than I would have been.

*I have been to MC on my own, she refuses to go.*
conclusion: she doesn't care about your feelings. she can't be bothered to save the marriage.

My biggest advice is to show your wife this post. Pay _very_ close attention to her reaction to it. Be sure you REALLY learn from the reactions, not simply respond to them in a kneejerk emotional fashion. Learn from her. Then make whatever decisions you are going to make.

My personal guess is that she will be livid at this post.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Has she always been angry or is this something new?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Reg said:


> The problem is that I thought I was doing everything right...came straight home after work, sent flowers without occasion, brought home presents, took her out as much as I could, complimented her, did as much housework as I could, cooked and looked after the kids at every opportunity. In spite of all this she has become more and more angry when arounfd me.


Stop doing any of the house work. If she is a SAHM, she has plenty of time to do those. 

Start being a little more alpha, don't let her get away easily when she is angry at you or bashes you. Respect needs to be both ways.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Jeff/BC said:


> I am ALWAYS suspicious when I read a post that basically says, "I'm perfect and my partner is the spawn of satan". Seldom, in my experience, is that accurate ... although rarely it is.


Had MY husband come here seeking help thats exactly what he would have said and it would all be true. I was angry and he was just a nice guy clueless as to why I was so mad all the time.

It happens.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Hubby (and Jeff), I don't know if you meant to, but I feel that your post comes pretty close to blaming Reg for his current situation, which strikes me as unfair. We're going off of what Reg has to tell us, so I have to take it at face value.

Reg, I think you need to sit down (not yell and argue) and tell your wife that you are beginning to resent her seeming aloofness and work together to find a solution. It's completely unfair for her to be holding onto some resentment from a long time ago... but you don't want to get into that poisoned well yourself. I think laying out what your expectations are (and listening to hers as well, of course) is a perfectly valid thing to do. Don't go in with "You need to" but rather "I would like" or "I feel that" to make it not so accusation-y. It's the art of compromise.

Additionally, if you are that available for her, I suggest that you start taking some more time for yourself. Reengage in an old hobby or find a new one. Don't be so available to her.

Don't be a doormat, either.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Yes, allowing yourself to feel resentful is not good for you or your marriage. Forgiveness is the antidote for resentment and maybe you can model this for your wife to follow since she appears to need some help in this area.
> 
> Being over 40 with two kids and being a sahm for over 14 year, you wife is subject to emotional stresses that are far and away in excess of her ability to cope. It's up to you to make up the difference. I would suggest going on regular dates as a starter


Did you read the first post? :scratchhead:

This Nice Guy already does the following things: comes straight home after work, sends flowers without occasion, brings home presents, takes his wife out as much as he can, compliments her, does as much housework as I can, cooks and looks after the kids at every opportunity.

Reg, your wife doesn't treat you with any respect or engage in sex because you said _one wrong thing_? I don't that is fair considering how much you contribute to the relationship. You are being a Nice Guy and she is taking advantage. You have created a one sided marriage and stepping back might be helpful. Perhaps no more unexpected gifts, flowers and cooking. Marriage is about reciprocity; spouses should be prepared to give and take in order to be happy together

I don't understand SAHM/SAHW who expect their husbands to cook; it is a necessary part of housework! I am a student who also has a part time placement; I am trying to gain experience and build my resume. I do NOT expect my husband to cook because he generously supports us and pays my tuition. The least I can do is make sure the man has a decent meal after a hard day!  Lazy bricks.


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Hubby (and Jeff), I don't know if you meant to, but I feel that your post comes pretty close to blaming Reg for his current situation, which strikes me as unfair.


My answer was, in short, there are two sides to every story and I'm only hearing one side... a side that looks pretty skewed. I'd need the other side before I even started pondering "blame"... not that I think like that in general. My actual advice was to talk to his wife.

I'm pretty good with all of that.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Mavash. said:


> Has she always been angry or is this something new?


Yes this is what I want to know too.

Also is she rude and angry with the kids, her friends and family or the guy at the gas station or just you?

Your living a terrible exisitence.

I would go to counselling and sort yourself a plan...invite her to join you but if shes not keen I'd go alone and start working out how to make your life better.

I wish you the best, you sound like a good man and you desereve more than this from your life.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Reg said:


> Date nights are extremly rare. She makes it painfully obvious that it is not a joy to go out as a couple. When we do manage to go out she just sits there looking miserable.
> 
> I do appreciate your advice. I am just at my wits end!
> 
> ...


I think every woman would LOVE to have a husbandl like you!
She's taken you for granted and she doesn't sound afraid to lose you, but she doesn't realize that with her sh!tty behaviour she's losing you every day.
You have spoiled her a bit too much!


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

Just to clarify; she is amazing with the kids, always happy.

I have tried to equal her coolness by not touching her or trying to hug and kiss her but I just can't do it. 

I do love her and I really just want a wife that shows a liitle affection, respect and appreciation...I will do anything for that.

We have had serious talks and I have been as clear as I can be about my expectations and hopes but her behaviour change does not last very long.

I have asked her several times over the last few years as to why she is sooooo angry all the time; she'll bring up something that I stupidly said, she will never let it go.

I honestly don't know how she can be so angry all the time or so uncaring, I try to behave like that for a couple of days but honestly; it drains my energy. How can she sunstain her anger for years???


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Obviously, you have not given her the "perfect life" as SHE views it. BUT, as she is completely UNWILLING to tell you what you 'might' have said long, long ago and far, far away, AND as she is completely UNWILLING to seek MC with you....it's all ON HER at this point. She is acting like a petulant brat. It's perfectly all right for her to feel angry, but refusing to do anything about it...even discuss it, is ridiculous!

I would recommend a 180 at this point. No more flowers, presents, nights out, compliments or housework for her. You SHOULD still come straight home from work and interact with the girls as much as ever (no need for them to suffer.) 

I, personally, would switch the MC for IC. 

If YOU want to go out for dinner or a movie or whatever, invite your daughters. IF they want to go, THEN invite your wife, too. (If your daughters don't want to go, then go alone...do not take your wife on a 'date'.) Make sure it is always a 'family' thing you're doing so she knows (a) you're NOT making it about her and (b) you're not turning it into an 'us' vs. 'you' mentality. If she doesn't want to go, her loss! If she does want to go, be sure to ignore all sulking/boredom on her part and make the evening enjoyable for your daughters and yourself.

If doing the 180 (there's a link somewhere on this site) doesn't bring your wife around to at least DISCUSS the problem maturely, then you don't have any marriage left anyway.

Good luck and keep us apprised. You'll find some really great advice here at TAM.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Okay, in your original post you said she is angry about something you 'might' have said a long time ago. Now you're admitting that she is angry about something you 'did' say a long time ago. 

You admitted it was stupid. If you have SINCERELY apologized to her and never said it again, I believe she is acting immaturely to hold this over your head with CONSTANT anger for YEARS.

Have you pointed out that you said one stupid thing ONE TIME and in her mind that equates to being angry DAILY for YEARS. She needs to grow the hell up!


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

I do say stupid things from time to time; don't we all? BUT I have never said anything that is so bad that my sincere apology should not mend. On top of that, like most guys, I will step up my efforts even more to make her happy.

But honestly, do I really have to spend the rest of my life apologizing? It's not like I slept with my 22 year old receptionist!

And just because I am a man does not exclude me from wanting to feel loved and respected by my mate.

Sooner or later she will drive me into the arms of another, I can't go on like this but at the same time I cannot risk hurting my kids in the slightest.

No kids? Gonzo. Wouldn't care at all about the cost.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Don't use her behaviour as an excuse to cheat. There are more constructive ways of dealing with this problem. What if you cheated and your children found out somehow? Think that wouldn't hurt them?

Man up and set some boundaries.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sounds like she's depressed about her situation and wants more.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Reg said:


> Date nights are extremly rare. She makes it painfully obvious that it is not a joy to go out as a couple. When we do manage to go out she just sits there looking miserable.
> 
> I do appreciate your advice. I am just at my wits end!
> 
> ...


Reg,

You are the man here and it is up to you to turn this around. Comparing your situation to others is counterproductive so quit. I just don't believe that you can't find something you can do together every week that can overpower her desire to appear miserable


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Jeff/BC said:


> I am ALWAYS suspicious when I read a post that basically says, "I'm perfect and my partner is the spawn of satan". Seldom, in my experience, is that accurate ... although rarely it is.
> 
> 
> > Ha ha ha! I was thinking the same exact thing. Nobody is that perfect.
> ...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Rage-a-holic psychopath with paranoid overtones. Not a gigantic case but it's one of those 'high functioning' types. She likes herself more when she's punishing you.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

Never said that I was perfect nor did I intend to convey that. I am trying to demonstrate that it is a very much one sided relationship.

If on occasion shes errs; I am very quick to forgive and forget completely. 

I try to be thoughtful and think of any way to make my family's life easier and keep everyone happy. I work in a very high stress industry and simply don't want anyone at home being upset cause I know first hand what stress can do.

So, as I have asked her many times that if I am happy to work as hard as I have to, put in crazy hours and be as helpful at home that I can then why is she still not happy?

The one fault that she does bring up is that I have a tendancy to not talk about things that are bothering me, I bottle it up and eventually get upset. In my defence; I think that it should be obvious that I am not happy with the fact that she has not touched or kissed me in four months...I let it ride to a point where I can't take it anymore and then she shocked that I am upset. Duh. Really?


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

lovelygirl said:


> I think every woman would LOVE to have a husbandl like you!
> She's taken you for granted and she doesn't sound afraid to lose you, but she doesn't realize that with her sh!tty behaviour she's losing you every day.
> You have spoiled her a bit too much!


I agree 100%. Some people are just miserable and spoiled. Tons of women out there would MURDER to have such a husband and here you have one spoiled brat that for 14 years didn't have punch a clock or worry about deadlines or a boss. No job = No SAHM, No money = No SAHM plain and simple. 

OP needs to change his approach and restablish his alpha dog state. His wife needs to appreciate the blessing she has had and stop complaining. If she is so unhappy then get out and get a job and make it out on yourself.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Reg said:


> then why is she still not happy?


Plain and simple, unhappy thinking leads to unhappy feeling. Also, the unhappy actions that stem from these thoughts contribute to feeling unhappy. This trend has been in effect for a while and unfortunately, your wife is in no position to reverse it on her own


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Yes, allowing yourself to feel resentful is not good for you or your marriage. Forgiveness is the antidote for resentment and maybe you can model this for your wife to follow since she appears to need some help in this area.
> 
> Being over 40 with two kids and being a sahm for over 14 year, you wife is subject to emotional stresses that are far and away in excess of her ability to cope. It's up to you to make up the difference. I would suggest going on regular dates as a starter


With all due respect, it seems you consistently advocate that husbands infantilize their wives and enable bad behavior. 

From the OP's statements, his wife really has nothing or reason to complain about. Its very frustrating for a man to provide for his family AND come home to a frigid woman. A good man works hard to provide and expect very little in return. His wife is not meeting her end of the bargain.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Plain and simple, unhappy thinking leads to unhappy feeling. Also, the unhappy actions that stem from these thoughts contribute to feeling unhappy. This trend has been in effect for a while and unfortunately, your wife is in no position to reverse it on her own


Why? She cannot choose to be happy or be a mature adult?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Sanity said:


> Why? She cannot choose to be happy or be a mature adult?


Not without help from her husband


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Sanity said:


> With all due respect, it seems you consistently advocate that husbands infantilize their wives and enable bad behavior.
> 
> From the OP's statements, his wife really has nothing or reason to complain about. Its very frustrating for a man to provide for his family AND come home to a frigid woman. A good man works hard to provide and expect very little in return. His wife is not meeting her end of the bargain.


I suggest that husbands treat their wives with compassion, love and understanding. The act of marriage itself enables bad behavior since anyone can present both good or bad behavior over time and a responsible husband supports their wife through thick and thin.

We only hear on side of the story but this is a pattern that repeats itself over and over. Anyone can give advice that leads to another broken family, children hurt, dreams smashed, lives wrecked. My only goal is reconciliation for anyone that will listen and give it a chance.

Our culture tells the stay at home mom that she is worthless and that she has wasted her life. Her friends and family are mostly telling her the same. Who is telling her differently? Men need to understand what they are up against and recognize that it is not their wives


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Originally Posted by Sanity 
Why? She cannot choose to be happy or be a mature adult? 

Originally Posted by Ten Year Hubby
Not without help from her husband 

* * * * * * * 
As a woman of a 'certain age' and a SAHM for over a decade I've got to say, I'm with Sanity on this one.

Reg HAS modeled forgiveness for his wife, but she won't forgive. Why is it HIS responsibility to make her happy? He can't! No more than he can make her honest, faithful, grateful or anything else.

SHE must choose those things for herself, or not, as she pleases.

The relationship you advocate, Ten Year Hubby, is a parent/child relationship where the wise, tireless, ever-vigilant husband must 'teach' the naive, helpless, confused wifey how to cope in the big, bad 'real' world. Yuck!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Reg,
Take a read.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

And then another. For the link below scroll down until you see mem11363. This second post is about patterns of bad behavior. The behavioral connection between these is simple. If you are the "hot" partner - defined in the link above - you are inadvertently reinforcing the idea that: You don't deserve her. You love her desperately despite the fact that she treats you terribly. Which sadly - translates to her believing you don't respect yourself and are therefore not worthy of respect. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...y-berates-me-yet-doesnt-work-have-kids-2.html




Reg said:


> Never said that I was perfect nor did I intend to convey that. I am trying to demonstrate that it is a very much one sided relationship.
> 
> If on occasion shes errs; I am very quick to forgive and forget completely.
> 
> ...


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Reg said:


> How can she sunstain her anger for years???


Reg, if your W has a personality disorder (PD), her sustaining the anger for years is easy to explain. Yet, before we even think of going down that road, it is important to know how long she has had an anger problem. When you say she has sustained her anger "for years," exactly how many of the 16 years of marriage are you talking about? 

I ask because, if she suffers from a PD, she would have acquired it in early childhood and thus would not be able to suppress the anger for several years. That is, you would have been seeing red flags starting about six months into the relationship or, in any case, right after the marriage ceremony.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Sometimes women resent the man when a certain amount of years have gone by and the kids get older. The woman feels like she sacrificed what she wanted to do to be a SAHM. I hope the two of you can find a way to effectively communicate. If you do find a way to really talk about your marriage and that's the problem. Maybe, she can take some time to herself now that the children are older and go to school part time or do a hobby she's always wanted to do. Something to help her find herself. SAHM sometimes get lost in everybody else s wants and needs. Then comes the resentment.


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## KittyKat (May 11, 2008)

Hmmmm, well, I'm gonna throw my two cents in here since no one else has brought it up.

She's in her 40's. She's moody/angry and can only pin point it to something you've said way back when.

I think a physical is in order. Could it be she is pre-menopausal? Here's a link. Read and see if any of this pertains to your wife:

34 Menopause Symptoms - Learn all about each menopausal symptom

You never know. I'm 46 and have been pre-meopausal the past 4 years. Yes, I have my mood swings and yes sometimes I don't feel like being lovey dovey. And remember, women have that filing cabinet in their brains and can pull out something that happened 20 yrs ago and put you right back in the dog house.

On another note, she sounds spoiled. You've given her a cush lifestyle. She may not know what to do with herself and resents you because of it. If she's not pre-menopausel, do the 180 for your own piece of mind. Get on with your life. If she wants to be with you, she will open up and work it out. Otherwise, you will be on your way to healing yourself from how she is treating you.

I wish you luck.


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## involedfather (Jan 13, 2012)

I think it's time to start focusing on you man. Focusing on her just isn't working. Sadly, from reading many, many, many posts on marriage/divorce and dating the consensus really seems to be that focusing too much on your wife actually drives them away. Ah, on this very page there's a link to a post from a woman that says as much. (just another example, not conclusive)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/2840-my-husband-driving-me-away.html

Either way, your efforts aren't appreciated and you're miserable, so stop. Personally I don't care anymore about the 5 love languages, his needs/her needs or any of that garbage. Most men turn to that after it's too late and the few people I've seen practice it throughout the marriage got screwed in the end anyway.

So build a better life for YOURSELF. Don't leave her, don't sleep with your secretary, don't ignore your obligations at home, but once they're reasonably met. She's a SAHM and should certainly have a higher obligation toward the home than you. I'd stop making dinner. Tell her that, directly and without anger. Explain it simply that you put the food in the pantry and fridge, if she wants a meal for the family, then she needs to cook it. When you come home and there's no dinner, make a sandwich for yourself and have your kids do the same (they're old enough). Do YOUR laundry if she won't but not everyone's. On and on.

If you have time cut into your schedule for dates she doesn't want to go on, then go do things you want to with your time. Since you're athletic already that's a great start. Setup golf with friends, tennis, rock climbing (GREAT fun), meet with buddies (NO OTHER WOMEN) for drinks, join a rec soccer team, etc. Don't sit around and be a couch potato and do nothing or watch T.V., that just makes you a lazy slob.

Another, very important, note. I think divorce is likely here, so start stashing money away, completely off the books, and hide it well. Reduce your 401(k) contributions to only maximize your company's contribution and find other ways to invest. I'd see a lawyer about this, maybe they have some suggestions for how to protect the money that you, and you alone, are earning. You must, MUST, get into your head that should she walk out the door tomorrow she has NO obligations to financially support her life or the kids for the next 9 years+ years, the state will make certain of that. Plus, even if she has an affair, she's still going to get half of whatever you own unless you get REALLY lucky and have some hard evidence. Even then the new claim is 'emotional abuse' which is considered good legal justification for an affair these days. If she pays the bills now (pretty common practice), take that part over. She doesn't earn the money so she shouldn't have to shoulder the responsibility of dolling it out. This is just as fair as you not cooking dinners. It's keeping everyone in their proper roles. Once you have complete control of the finances then you'll be able to better cut out a safety net for yourself. Again, SEE A LAWYER. You want to ensure that whatever you do is completely protected in a settlement dispute. I'm talking about things like re-mortgage the house and stash the savings. Buy a decent car outright in cash, without her knowing, and stash it with friends/family. If your primary car isn't already a lease then trade in and get one. I could go on and on but the principle is to reduce your legally-at-risk assets as much as possible.

This all may sound very doomsday but the reality is that I really think it could save your marriage altogether. You'll appear (and be) strong, respectable, and alpha. This will make you considerably more attractive than anything else you can do in a woman's eye (That's from experience and hundreds if not thousands of posts on here, other sites, and from books on marriage. It's a FACT). 

Then, if things don't work out, you'll be at the minimum possible loss factor. You'll have plenty of positive, supportive aspects in your life that will keep you emotionally stable through the process and aftermath. If she continues to not want to engage with you in a positive, loving, and sexual manner, then you really haven't lost anything from that angle and just get to devote more time to the things you have already started to enjoy. You'll also have a hefty financial cushion to help get you through the next 9 years of child support (yeah, you'll lose that battle. Even 50/50 you'll still pay her because she'll make less/nothing)

(quick tangent on this)
Quick aside on this. My best friend's wife walked out 3 years ago and left him with full custody of the three kids. Today he's in court with her because she wants 50/50 custody, and the consensus among the lawyers is, she's going to win. Now this just means that they take his 30% vs. her 30% and he'll just have to pay the difference. Since he makes really good money, and she makes NOTHING (perpetual student), this turns out to be his $2100 to her $100 so he'll be paying her $2000/month for the next 12 years (yes percentage goes down but his income will go up, etc). Of course, this won't be enough to pay rent, electric, food, car, etc. so he'll still have to pick up the lion's share of the kids' needs like lunches, clothes, toys, activity costs, etc.
(/quick tangent on this)

So that's actually the rosy picture. If you live in a state with Alimony... MOVE! Yes, it's THAT bad. Research this. You could easily be looking at 25% for 9 years, plus medical premiums, half of medical costs, and alimony. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, whether your post is truth, lies, or somewhere in between. The courts probably won't really care who's fault it is and if they do then it'll be yours no matter what. Face it man, whatever you THINK you've been doing the reality is (at least legally), that you've been emotionally abusing this woman for 14 years and because of all she's SACRIFICED to be a SAHM you are LEGALLY OBLIGATED to support her at great financial burden for many, many years.

Start making it about you. No matter what direction this thing takes you'll be better off for it. I really, really think she'll come to love you more (maybe at all) for it. If not... oh well. You'll be in a much better spot than you are today.

Yes, I'm bitter and jaded. I'll certainly be called out on that and dismissed by many a person (both genders) on this forum. I submit though that you are in a tenuous situation and my suggestions are the safe bet. Getting more emotionally and financially vested in this relationship just increases your risk and I see no cause here to do so. Think logically man. Put your heart on ice for a bit, you're in REAL danger that you just can't even wrap your head around at this point. The time to act is NOW.


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

I am gonna throw my hat into the ring on this one as one previously angry woman (still am at times).

Reg, some of these things may give you an insight or a clue to start digging. BTW I am 39yo expecting to go to earlier than average menopause 

I have a LOT of childhood issues with growing in a male dominated and chauvanistic family where my older brother was doted on by all & sundry. Looking back I now believe he bullied me to the point of abuse. The only way I learnt to get attention was to yell and scream & get angry. Anger was one of the few emotions expressed. What's your wife's family background like...anything messier than just plain average dysfunctional?

My H neglected me for a whole host of reasons, but HE thought he was doing well because I wasn't complaining. Actually I was complaining because I got angry and then couldn't quite tell him why. It all started when I had kids 12 years ago and was then a SAHM . Women give and give and give until they have nothing left emotionally. Then the anger and lonliness starts....and the sex stops.

Also I haven't seen it mentioned on here about anger being a secondary emotion....anger is a call to action. Your wife's emotions are calling her to action - not neccessarily to walk out (just had to clarify that), but to get rid of whatever the underneath feeling is. That primary feeling could be sadness, powerlessness, boredom, scared of something amongst others. Your wife probably doesn't want to do MC because it would mean opening up that pandora's box of emotions. She could simply be scared of hurting you and does not understand that MC gives you both the skills to move beyond the pain of her feelings.

You mention you do marathons. How much time do you devote to that as opposed to your family? Really truly?? My H would have said he was a devoted family man but in my eyes he was completely disengaged and was more interested in his hobbies (& addictions) than dealing with us.

Or is it that she sees you taking advantage and the opportunities to do new things (such as marathons) while she yet again waits patiently for her turn??? I felt this strongly and even now as I write this feel the anger well up in me. This is a mid life crisis in the making and she could be on the brink. Come to think of it, my anger peaked right after I'd lost 30kg hit my late 30s and the kids were finally becoming more independent...much like your wife.

And here is the real kicker, which I sincerely hope is not the case, there is a man she has met that tickles her fantasies. She may not have acted on it, but the problem is it has got her thinking and possibly seeing all the things she supposedly doesn't have. Possibly she can no longer see the woods for the trees. This all ties into the MLC/SAHM thing as well.

I do believe, that like my H, you love your W and want to solve this. Give her the space and the permission to tell you. She may not feel 'safe' for some reason.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

Just to clarify, my wife is very happy to be a SAHM. And I am happy that she is also. And I like the fact that my family can enjoy a very nice lifestyle that my work is able to provide, I am resentful that she cannot treat me with any kindness or warmth.

My issue is that if I am willing to work extemely hard in a high stress enviornment and come home to do as much as I can including cleaning and cooking then am I asking for too much if all I need is an occassional hug or kiss? Or how about just a call or text in the middle of a 13 hour working day to ask how I'm doing...I call her to see how she is doing during the day and the conversations are limited to one word answers from her.

As for my running, I wake up 2 hours before anyone else in the house so that I can finish my workout and be available for my family when they wake up. I do not golf or hang out with my buddies if my kids are at home; I maximize my time with them.

Affair on her part? Don't think so, but would love to meet the individual that can thaw her out 

Divorce? If it weren't for the kids...I wouldn't even go home to pack. And I would give her all of our money and the house; I can get it all again.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow!! She's so heartless!! Everytime I read this thread I always wonder...
You have either done something EXTREMELY hurtful to her in the past that it's very difficult for her to get over that or she's just a spoiled, indifferent b*itch around someone like YOU.
I mean, I would be the happiest woman ON EARTH to have a man like you who does everything at home for his family and men like you are very very rare to find. 

If her conversation on the phone with you is just one word after every question you make then she sounds very disinterested in asking you back about the same thing. 
You don't deserve her! 


Is she like this with you only or she's generally like this even with friends/family/kids...??


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

Nope; she is like that only with me. She is very pleasant around others. When she speaks to me in the pleasant, happy tone, I am the happiest guy in the world. It doesn't take much to make me happy.

We were at a concert back in the summertime and a girl from the row in front of us actually approached me and told me that my wife did not deserve me. She was watching us and noticed that my wife was just sitting there looking bored while everyone else was having a great time. I was shocked that a stranger would say this but it is just one of many examples.

I don't even try to take my wife to a concert or sporting event anymore; it's embarassing to go to what is supposed to be a fun event with someone who looks like they are going to the dentist.

Not to sound concieted but I am a reasonably good looking guy, a top earner, in great shape...I know women are attracted to me but I have no interest in having an affair. But man, it's getting harder and harder to not spend a night with a passionate woman. Sorry, just being honest. Sometimes I think I just deserve a little happiness, I have devoted my life to making everyone else happy, my turn???


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Reg said:


> We were at a concert back in the summertime and a girl from the row in front of us actually approached me and told me that my wife did not deserve me. She was watching us and noticed that my wife was just sitting there looking bored while everyone else was having a great time. I was shocked that a stranger would say this but it is just one of many examples.



OH GOD! 
I feel so sorry about you. 




> Not to sound concieted but I am a reasonably good looking guy, a top earner, in great


Then what else does she want from you!! 

She'll start reaizing how worthy you are when you leave her. 
[if you ever will! But youo're too good to do that.]


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

A quick update; we had an anniversary in April. I knew that she would have absolutely nothing planned, not even a dinner or even saying happy anniversary so I also did not plan anything. I usually send flowers, buy gifts and take her out to dinner.

I also decided that this would be a great day to start treating her the way she treats me...no affection, no kisses, no hugs, no touching and of course; no sex. 

It's been over two months now it has had absoultely no effect on her, she's perfectly content to live like strangers. 

Can she not sense my hurt and resentment?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Reg said:


> She speaks to me if I am a misbehaving dog...


Tough to read...sounds a lot like my situation when I was in full Nice Guy mode...walking on eggshells around my W. You need to read _No More Mr. Nice Guy _and _Hold On To Your Nuts. _

Also, NOBODY gets to speak to you like a misbehaving dog. Tell her in a neutral tone that the conversation is over since she spoke to you with disrespect. You then STFU, and walk away. That's the soft approach, if you want that. Once I found my sack again, I used words that were a bit more harsh when I got crap like that from my W. It took a few times, but she got the message that the dynamics were changing.


Reg said:


> Can she not sense my hurt and resentment?


Yes, she can, but she flat-out doesn't give a F.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Reg said:


> Can she not sense my hurt and resentment?


She probably thinks you should "sense" whatever it is bothering her.

Start telling her how you feel, when you feel it, every time you feel it. Don't whine about it. Don't defend you feelings. Don't yell or argue about it. Just tell her.

If you're wandering around being moody, harboring hurt & resentment. Being nasty and *****y, you're doing the 180 wrong. It's not about treating her how she treats you. It's about not caring how she treats you.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

I have spoken to her, several times in a "heart to heart". everything is great for a few days and then if I say do something that is not to her liking then the cold and bitterness comes out again and there is nothing I can do to turn her around again.

I'm not being moody. I've just developed an attitude of not caring about her, I hate it but I have tried everything else.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

An update for everyone...it's been just over a year and still no affection, attention or sex. I have tried several times to reconcile like a dummy cause I just couldn't stay angry all the time like she does (it's exhausting!). Fast forward to Valentine's, I bought her a nice gift and card in which I wrote "even though we are going through a difficult time in our marriage, know that I love you". She let the present and card sit for 10 days before opening it! And when she did she did not say anything to me, not even a thank you. It was after that time that she stopped wearing her wedding rings...waited about six weeks, wrote her a letter telling her I want a divorce; I'm done. Left the letter on the table this morning as I left for work. I'll update everyone later as to her response.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Yeah.Its obvious she is harboring deep resentment towards you over something you said or did even if she didn't tell you at the time.Could have even been multiple things.Or she is mad/dissapointed at herself and she is taking it out on you .

That's fine that can happen.The problem is her settling to stay stuck in that place making you both miserable instead of being brave and facing it and working it through.She has been there so long her heart has completely hardened.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

You will likely get one of two reactions.

1) complete breakdown and panic, apologizing, change in behavior

2) ambivalence


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Sorry to hear things only got worse. Her behavior is bizarre. Even at my peak angry days, I had good manners.


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

Affair? Have you checked what she does all day? Resentment to you is fine. but dont tell me she went without sex for a year.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Cdelta02 said:


> Affair? Have you checked what she does all day? Resentment to you is fine. but don't tell me she went without sex for a year.


Its very possible if she had shut herself down /walled herself off emotionally.Also the longer you go (and I mean long term) without sex the less you even think about it .It becomes like a distant memory.And the body follows..Use it or lose it can and does happen.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

So I my wife called my cell, I didn't answer because I was at work. She left an angry message "Just saw this. you better drive home right now!"
I haven't called her back or gone home. Any advice?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Reg said:


> So I my wife called my cell, I didn't answer because I was at work. She left an angry message "Just saw this. you better drive home right now!"
> I haven't called her back or gone home. Any advice?


Saw what?

In light of how she is treating you, and her wanting a divorce, what do you want? Knowing that will help you figure out how to respond.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Reg said:


> So I my wife called my cell, I didn't answer because I was at work. She left an angry message "Just saw this. you better drive home right now!"
> I haven't called her back or gone home. Any advice?


She saw this thread?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

I think she's talking about the letter he left.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Be careful, she sounds like she could be the type of woman to make a false domestic violence claim.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Reg said:


> So I my wife called my cell, I didn't answer because I was at work. She left an angry message "Just saw this. you better drive home right now!"
> I haven't called her back or gone home. Any advice?


If you are serious about the divorce, then there isn't any reason to jump when she says jump.

Don't call back. Just go home at your normal time.

You have finally taken control of your life. She knows she is losing control of you. Whatever you do, don't give it back to her now (by letting her pull your emotional strings or getting you to back off the divorce demand--it takes time for a divorce to go through; she'll have that long to prove she wants to change).

You're playing hardball now. Don't buckle.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Reg said:


> So I my wife called my cell, I didn't answer because I was at work. She left an angry message "Just saw this. you better drive home right now!"
> I haven't called her back or gone home. Any advice?


You "better drive home right now"?..Or else ???Or else what?What is it she thinks she is going to do to you if you don't? You already said you are done.What can she do to you ?

The only thing I might ask her is "are threatening me" ?I mean what does she mean by "you better"?Then say I will come home when I'm ready to.

She cant do anything if you don't "drive home right now" .Not that would hurt you that's legal..And I think she has already done all the emotional harm she can do hence the reason you are done and want a divorce.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Pick up a VAR before you go home tonight so she doesn't set you up with a false DV charge.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Pick up a VAR before you go home tonight so she doesn't set you up with a false DV charge.


He can also ask for a "keep the peace" police escort if he really wants protection .Her message sounded like a threat.She didnt say "please come home now" ..she said "you better" ..that sounds like "or else".


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Oh also the "you better" thing?As in an order or "else"..that is how you might talk to a CHILD.

Ya know? Like my mother would say "get your butt in this house right this minute"!..And I knew if I "didnt"? I was in for it.

So what is it you are "in for" if you dont?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> She speaks to me if I am a misbehaving dog,


Point made.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I will not run home just because she demands it. I'm done. Too much damage.
I will go home at my normal time (13 hour shift). She will not have control on how this goes.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

How did it go reg?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

When you're around her I suggest you wear some type of recording device when interacting with her for the near future at least. You have no idea how she is going to act and I've seen too many stories about men getting into legal and financial trouble because their wives/girlfriends make up accusations that are automatically assumed to be true.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

Sorry, I did not update out of respect to the victims in Boston. My problem is nothing compared to what they are going through.

My wife did get through to me on the phone before I came home. She wants to go to couples counselling and not discuss divorce until we do. I agreed. I am very confident that the counseler will see that she is the problem and then hopefully she can address her issues.

Worth a try as a last resort.


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## Reg (Apr 13, 2011)

But she has come to bed last two nights and the wedding ring is back on  She knows the dynamics have changed.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Apparently she thought you didn't have it in you. This happened to me as well. She needed a shock to get her out of her anger based comfort zone where she saw herself as the ultimate victim. Remember this day.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello,

From your post and update over a year I strongly suggest that you urgently need to get an understanding on the nature and evolution of attraction and eroticism in long term relationships.

The main issue with your wife's attitude is that most likely you have focused for the past few years almost exclusively on comfort and connection building behavior without knowing of the importance of attraction building behavior. 

Don't feel bad, most people are completely unaware of this information and yet the results seem to be predictable.

To address the situation please urgently read and implement Athol Kay - Married Man Sex Life Primer. 

If you search through this forum you will find men in your situation who read and implemented it along with the results. 

Do this now alongside counselling as sadly the counselling materials and expertise has mostly not yet evolved to include attraction and eroticism well.

Please come back with feedback once you read and implemented the material.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Yes, allowing yourself to feel resentful is not good for you or your marriage. Forgiveness is the antidote for resentment and maybe you can model this for your wife to follow since she appears to need some help in this area.
> 
> Being over 40 with two kids and being a sahm for over 14 year, you wife is subject to emotional stresses that are far and away in excess of her ability to cope. It's up to you to make up the difference. I would suggest going on regular dates as a starter


I believe you mean well but your advice seems to treat people(especially female) like children. At 40 its time to put the big girl pants on and stop causing problems. A SAHM for 14 years does not have room to complain. How many people would love NOT having to work for a living and being able to raise kids. Forgive the tone of this post but I have zero empathy for SAHM that are blessed with being able to stay a home with kids and not treating their husbands with some level of respect. If they can't do this then maybe they need to go back to work since the kids are in school.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Reg,
> 
> You are the man here and it is up to you to turn this around. Comparing your situation to others is counterproductive so quit. I just don't believe that you can't find something you can do together every week that can overpower her desire to appear miserable


Is she a wife or a four year old? I use these tactics of redirection on my son, not grown adults.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Reg said:


> But she has come to bed last two nights and the wedding ring is back on  She knows the dynamics have changed.


Yeah like the realization that she may have to get a job. Unfortunately if you divorce, because she's been out of the job market for 14 years she's basically going to start at the bottom making very little money. She might demand spousal support plus half or whatever you cave into. This is why the saying "Cheaper to keep her" was invented.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> How many people would love NOT having to work for a living and being able to raise kids. Forgive the tone of this post but I have zero empathy for SAHM that are blessed with being able to stay a home with kids and not treating their husbands with some level of respect. I


I agree with the respect part but that always needs to be mutual.And I know many women that don't "have to work" they CHOOSE to work because they enjoy their career and having the x-tra money.Or they are even the main bread winner..And they would not LOVE staying at home full time for 14 years raising kids and sacrificing some luxuries and then to grovel at the husbands feet in respect for how easy she has it and him paying "her way" while she frolicks around in the daisies doing the easy job of raising children (because we know how easy that is) and being the cook and maid.And at the end of the day she is to "thank him" for allowing for her to "not work".

MY DIL in fact ENJOYS working ..she likes earning money and she takes pride in her job.She is a top performer and enjoys the challenge of recieving not only money bonuses for it but "beating out " the others in her dept. and getting praised for her performance on her reviews.. However she is ready for a "break" after having to spend one day taking care of my grandson "by herself" on her day off while my son works.

I know others as well..and the fact is most women who are stay at home moms have done both work and stay at home or they even work part time during the stay at home years.There are actually very few FULL time LONG TERM stay at home moms for "many " to be able to say they would LOVE it .believe me coming from a full time stay at home mom of 20 years.There is a lot to "love about it'" but there are also things to "not love about it".

Its almost like saying if you "get to stay home full time" and don't "have to work" then you have some nerve ever complaining or not feeling fullfilled that makes you an ingrate.Not to mention it IS WORK you just don't get paid.Over the years I would have been paid by now 100,s of thousands of $'s for doing the same "work" I have done in my home if I did it for another family.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Yeah like the realization that she may have to get a job. Unfortunately if you divorce, because she's been out of the job market for 14 years she's basically going to start at the bottom making very little money.


Exactly and that is one (and a very serious one) sacrifice /risk a woman (or man) makes exiting the workforce and committing many years /crucial years of your working life to raise children.Your are in a sense voluntarily cutting your own legs off at the hip to be able to reasonably support your self if need be while he will be fine in the case of divorce .Hence "alimony".(but only in some states and not just for SAHM's either but for men and women too who have an very unequal earning power for other reasons).

I actually would caution any woman to not put herself in that role(not long term SAHM) and if she chooses to anyway at least she was warned.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Exactly and that is one (and a very serious one) sacrifice /risk a woman (or man) makes exiting the workforce and committing many years /crucial years of your working life to raise children.Your are in a sense voluntarily cutting your own legs off at the hip to be able to reasonably support your self if need be while he will be fine in the case of divorce .Hence "alimony".(but only in some states and not just for SAHM's either but for men and women too who have an very unequal earning power for other reasons).
> 
> I actually would caution any woman to not put herself in that role(not long term SAHM) and if she chooses to anyway at least she was warned.



To be honest I think its a huge risk for a woman to exit the job market for this long especially after the kids are in school. 14 years out of the job market makes it very difficult to get a job especially in this competitive job market. From a male perspective if a man lets his wife be a SAHM for 14+ years and all of a sudden she walks or cheats on him and divorces him he has to pay alimony and in some states its alimony for life! Ridiculous. 

While I believe being a SAHM is the most important job in the world its not the hardest. I keep hearing this crap spewed from Oprah bots and all its done is help destroy marriages IMHO. Being a SAHM is a blessing and to ***** and complain that you have to take care of your babies while the husband has to worry about keeping the lights on is ridiculous. I wish I could spend more time with my boy playing dinosaurs, watching him play at park and grow up than deal with people who try to squeeze every ounce of blood out of you in a 10+ hour day.

In all honesty I think this is where the problem lies. If you want to be a SAHM then be one but keep the whining to a minimum. If being a SAHM is not for you then polish up that resume and get a job and see how long your complaining will be tolerated before they show you the door.


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## 1lostintranslation (Apr 10, 2012)

Well maybe I am missing something REG....but you obviously know what was stupidly said by you. What did you say to your wife? Maybe the real issue that she is upset about and can't get over is the fact you won't acknowledge what you said and how deeply it affected her. It must have been pretty bad (to her) if she is still holding onto it. One thing I do know being a woman is that we can't heal if we don't feel like our feelings our acknowledged.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> From a male perspective if a man lets his wife be a SAHM for 14+ years and all of a sudden she walks or cheats on him and divorces him he has to pay alimony and in some states its alimony for life! Ridiculous.


He can also "walk off on her" though..and alimony for life is in what ?3 states? Not only that what if she wants a divorce for herself for other reasons that are legit?

Also the assumption is she stayed home to raise the kids like it was her "dream" and he" let her "have it..What if they both agreed that's what they BOTH wanted for their children?What if he encouraged it and it wasn't her begging to "not have to work"?What if they figured out $'s and sense wise and convenience wise it made marriage and home life better for everyone involved?So he moves on in the working world "building" and achieves a higher level of earning capacity while she is "at home" taking care of that end so he can work but then if she wants a divorce (lets assume she is not "having an affair) 15 years later she is trapped to go make barely minimum wage or stay in the marriage?While he can go off reaping the fruits of his work history that she helped support him to make?

Sorry I don't think so..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> While I believe being a SAHM is the most important job in the world its not the hardest.


No one said it was the hardest..but you referred to it as NOT WORK ...not only that it can be HARDER than some other occupations.But the point is she has LESS ability to earn out in the world by staying at home.

But you said how many people wouldn't love to NOT WORK and get to stay home and raise kids..I tell you a LOT ..because it is work(hard work) for one and its not cut out for everyone.Including many men would not want to do it instead of their "job".Let alone have to be dependent on his wife for any money..While telling her "thank you for "letting me " stay home.AND at risk she could walk off and leave HIM in a state with no alimony.Or limited alimony..In Texas the maximum amount of time you can get alimony is 3 years.3 years does not a career build compared to 15 .


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> From a male perspective if a man lets his wife be a SAHM for 14+ years and all of a sudden she walks or cheats on him and divorces him he has to pay alimony and in some states its alimony for life! Ridiculous.


So are you saying he should only have to pay alimony if he "walks" and she has been a SAHM for 14 years?If she wants out of the marriage for even the same reasons he does if she "walks" she is on her own?


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