# It really isn't you. It IS them!



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If you are new to TAM and CWI, you'll probably have been given some duff advice before arriving here.

Well, as someone with experience, please let me tell you... you did not make your partner, wife, husband or lover cheat on you.

Oh, you might have helped create a situation where bad things could happen, but that happens to millions of couples. But guess what? Millions of couples do not have problems with infidelity. Only some.

Some marriage counsellors will tell you that you are 50% responsible for the cheating of your spouse. This is not true. You might be up to 50% responsible for any problems in your relationship, but the cheater is 100% responsible for the cheating. Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise!

Can infidelity in a marriage be coped with and the marriage saved? Yes. They can be. Not all can, but some can.

And remember you are amongst people here who have been where you are.:smthumbup:


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

What Matt said. Soooo many threads of blame shifting.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Matt, you are right and I believe the lack of accountability and blameshifting is the root cause of why so many marriages do not recover from infidelity.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bfree said:


> Matt, you are right and I believe the lack of accountability and blameshifting is the root cause of why so many marriages do not recover from infidelity.


A lack of honesty, too.

My wife was honest with me. She told me she was going to have an affair. 

But if she hadn't told me and I'd found out by accident? Not entirely sure how I could have coped with that. Could we have reconciled from that? Maybe. But it would have been much more difficult.


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## keepmyfamily (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm still new. But, I too, have noticed more blame shifting posts lately. 

I hope this stays bumped for awhile.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> A lack of honesty, too.
> 
> My wife was honest with me. She told me she was going to have an affair.
> 
> But if she hadn't told me and I'd found out by accident? Not entirely sure how I could have coped with that. Could we have reconciled from that? Maybe. But it would have been much more difficult.


lack of honesty for sure. Had my wife been honest from the beginning, things would have never gotten this bad. Honesty about why she was feeling so resentful towards me, honesty about her feelings for OM, honesty about her true feelings after she got caught, honesty about her struggles with NC, honesty about how she was afraid to face what she had really done (trying to protect me and the marriage).

Now her lack of honesty has led to her choosing to continue her dishonesty to run away from our problems (which won't go away with divorce, and seem to be getting magnified). 

Honesty.... Even if the news is bad, at least you can honestly deal with it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> lack of honesty for sure. Had my wife been honest from the beginning, things would have never gotten this bad. Honesty about why she was feeling so resentful towards me, honesty about her feelings for OM, honesty about her true feelings after she got caught, honesty about her struggles with NC, honesty about how she was afraid to face what she had really done (trying to protect me and the marriage).
> 
> Now her lack of honesty has led to her choosing to continue her dishonesty to run away from our problems (which won't go away with divorce, and seem to be getting magnified).
> 
> Honesty.... Even if the news is bad, at least you can honestly deal with it.


:iagree:


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Mattmatt. Your wife TOLD YOU before "I am gonna bang someone else???" Unfortunately history does not seem to go far enough back. I am curious about that story...


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I hate the blame shift crud. I hate hearing how a BS is even being told they are responsible for their WS actions. Especially if it is coming form counselors. 
The idea that I have any control over another person's actions is ridiculous. Wow, just wow! With thinking like that then it means that one spouse is to blame if the other spouse uses drugs, drinks and drives, or anything else they can do right or wrong.
When did we start holding innocent people accountable for other's actions?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Well my wife didn't explicitly say she was going to cheat - what she did do though was start saying stuff like
"I am going to start going out after work with my co-workers, is that okay with you?" to which I would often reply "Well, is there any reason I need to worry about that?" to which she would say "No". I realize now she was doing this to "clear the way" for her infidelity. 
If she said "I am interested in someone at work, and I going to pursue it". I would have taken notice and done something about it...but it is much different that what she said.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Mattmatt. Your wife TOLD YOU before "I am gonna bang someone else???" Unfortunately history does not seem to go far enough back. I am curious about that story...


It's still there http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...out-about-infidelity.html?highlight=Aspergers


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

WOW. Did she just give a foretelling several years before or did she one day say. Well I'm off to go bang OM?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> WOW. Did she just give a foretelling several years before or did she one day say. Well I'm off to go bang OM?


Funny you should mention that Several years before she did say: "If my former boyfriend xxx comes back to town, I don't know what I'd do."

Well, damn it, I found out, didn't I?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

My stbxw still blames me for her cheating. It seems everytime we talk (i.e. argue) the time period keeps getting larger for her "unhappy period" which was 100% me and justified her cheating. Now it it the past 8 years. It started out as four years, once jumped to 10 years, and has now settled at about 8 years. i.e. She thinks she should have separated 8 years ago because that is how long she has been unhappy, according to her very flexible memory. My point is, she didn't. She cheated instead. Would have, could have doesn't really mean much at this point.

Personally, I peg the unhappiness starting at 5 years ago (when our kids were 7 and 9 and starting to get busy with extra-curricular activities), and getting totally unrecoverable about 1 year ago. Her EA started in summer 2008 when she met the POSOM at a golf tournament. It went PA in summer 2009.

I take my share of the responsibility for our marriage getting to the point where the POSOM's flirting was making her feel good about herself. But I take NO responsibility for her decision to cheat and then lie about it.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Kurosity said:


> I hate the blame shift crud. I hate hearing how a BS is even being told they are responsible for their WS actions. Especially if it is coming form counselors.
> The idea that I have any control over another person's actions is ridiculous. Wow, just wow! With thinking like that then it means that one spouse is to blame if the other spouse uses drugs, drinks and drives, or anything else they can do right or wrong.
> When did we start holding innocent people accountable for other's actions?


:iagree:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> If you are new to TAM and CWI, you'll probably have been given some duff advice before arriving here.
> 
> Well, as someone with experience, please let me tell you... you did not make your partner, wife, husband or lover cheat on you.
> 
> ...


I wonder if this same logic applies to spouses that choose to divorce instead of cheat?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lon said:


> I wonder if this same logic applies to spouses that choose to divorce instead of cheat?


Like the woman I used to work with who decided to divorce her husband who was older than her, so she could have sex with lots of other younger men?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Like the woman I used to work with who decided to divorce her husband who was older than her, so she could have sex with lots of other younger men?


Yes, or just when they decide that their marriage is preventing them from having a fulfilling life for whatever specific reason they have about it?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lon said:


> Yes, or just when they decide that their marriage is preventing them from having a fulfilling life for whatever specific reason they have about it?


Well, I suppose a couple can grow apart, that can happen.

The honest thing is to divorce and then look for someone, not to have an affair and turn your spouse (trusting, loyal spouse) into a plan b.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

People get divorced for all sorts of reasons. There is no shame in divorce - sometimes things just don't work out.

Cheating and lying about it are completely different. You can have character and still get divorced. You cannot have character and cheat.

The biggest disappointment in my stbxw is not that she wanted to have sex with another man - it's that she did it behind my back and lied about it for years. Her lies disgust me. Her lack of character disgusts me. In fact she disgusts me to a point where I wonder how she can be a good role model for my daughters. How can a woman who lied so blatantly teach my daughters right from wrong?

This is what bothers me now. My daughters are spending 50% of their time with a cheater who continues to duck responsibility for her lies. So when my daughter lies - can she say "You forced me to lie" and get away with it? Not in my world.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Well in my case it was probably considered an exit affair - she wanted the divorce so she could escalate her affairs. And yeah the fact she wanted to have sex with another man is far from the worst part, but I can't tell which is worse for me, the lying and deceit or the fact that I was so worthless to her she could walk out of her vows so easily.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad she did, I don't want to be committed to someone who is unsure about their choice in marriage partner, and after she demonstrated her capacity to be disloyal and unfaithful I have never once really wanted her. She is someone else's problem now, I just can't escape from the realization that , yes it was me (and her, but almost entirely me).


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Took me a sometime during my situation to believe this myself. But the lying and Cr.ap I had to endure for the last 5 months made it clear it wasn't me. 

It's funny how we talked months ago in counseling that we didn't want to be that divorce couple that cursed each other till no end. But I told her for not wanting to do that, she sure is trying her best to be that. 

My wife acts like I cheated on her.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Yup. Our MC blame shifted to me. And when my wife said she had a hard time with questions like "How could you do this to me??" the counsellor looked at her and said "but you DIDN'T do this to him" then looked at me and said "you are not a victim". Suffice it to say we won't be going to her ever again.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

The-Decieved said:


> Yup. Our MC blame shifted to me. And when my wife said she had a hard time with questions like "How could you do this to me??" the counsellor looked at her and said "but you DIDN'T do this to him" then looked at me and said "you are not a victim". Suffice it to say we won't be going to her ever again.


I've got a 20 that says the MC is no stranger to being unfaithful.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Ovid said:


> I've got a 20 that says the MC is no stranger to being unfaithful.


Yup. Wh*re.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Ovid said:


> I've got a 20 that says the MC is no stranger to being unfaithful.


was thinking the same


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## HealthyMe (Jul 2, 2012)

During the initial phase of recovery (which I later discovered was False R anyway), I listened to my husband tell me how I needed to become a woman that was attractive to him. I listened and I accepted what he was saying. I feel very sad for the woman I was back then, hearing those things and believing them.

The truth is, my husband has been a serial cheater, not because I am inadequate or lacking in any way, but because he is a broken person, and has been since childhood. 

I am a loving, generous and caring person. I have character and integrity. I have been a good mother to our 2 daughters. I am a loving sister and daughter. I am intelligent and generally low maintenance. I am very fit and enjoy the outdoors. And guess what? I have been all of these things during our 20 year marriage, the same exact marriage he was in...and I never stepped out.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

The-Decieved said:


> Yup. Our MC blame shifted to me. And when my wife said she had a hard time with questions like "How could you do this to me??" the counsellor looked at her and said "but you DIDN'T do this to him" then looked at me and said "you are not a victim". Suffice it to say we won't be going to her ever again.





Ovid said:


> I've got a 20 that says the MC is no stranger to being unfaithful.





Hardtohandle said:


> was thinking the same



My wife and I went to MC and the counsellor agreed with my wife that I was "controlling". Turns out, my wife was in the midst of her affair during this MC and was lying about all the causes of our unhappiness (Yes, I did not like her friends. Turns out I was right - they were encouraging and cheering on her cheating). NOW, my wife is going to the same MC for her IC. And guess what? During a recent disagreement (re: our kids), my wife screamed that her "IC was right" - I am going to continue to blame and make my stbxw feel badly for cheating. My stbxw wants to just go forward with a "clean slate" - so her IC is telling her to basically believe that her marriage was so bad that her cheating was justified. Note: At the time of separation we had been married for almost 25 years. At the time of our initial MC, we had been married 20 years (daughters at the time 9 and 7). Life was busy - very busy - but we had so much to be thankful for. Yet my wife, with the MC's encouragement, focussed on the phantom "bad aspects" as a way to rationalize her feelings.

Edit: Forgot to add that my stbxw blurted out that "I wanted children more than SHE did". This is the same woman who is fighting for 50% custody because she "misses being a mother to her daughters". 

It was all my fault, all along, apparently....:scratchhead:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Cedar, your W's IC sucks, especially at MC.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Lon said:


> Cedar, your W's IC sucks, especially at MC.


True. But try telling my stbxw that! :rofl:


She's part of a large HR firm that handles the EAP for my stbxw's company (a large Canadian bank).

I may be paranoid - but the so called MC had a very anti-marriage stance from day 1. She took everything my stbxw said at face value, and when I objected - it was evidence of my "controlling nature". During the entire MC - my stbxw was hiding her EA - sharing her thoughts, her problems, and her emotions with the POSOM. Meanwhile, she was blaming me for the distance in our relationship. 

That's the tragedy - if my stbxw had the character to put even half the effort into our marriage as she did in her EA and in her hiding of the EA, we would probably still be happily married. But she chose cheating and lying - all while in the charade of a false R.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> My wife and I went to MC and the counsellor agreed with my wife that I was "controlling". Turns out, my wife was in the midst of her affair during this MC and was lying about all the causes of our unhappiness (Yes, I did not like her friends. Turns out I was right - they were encouraging and cheering on her cheating). NOW, my wife is going to the same MC for her IC. And guess what? During a recent disagreement (re: our kids), my wife screamed that her "IC was right" - I am going to continue to blame and make my stbxw feel badly for cheating. My stbxw wants to just go forward with a "clean slate" - so her IC is telling her to basically believe that her marriage was so bad that her cheating was justified. Note: At the time of separation we had been married for almost 25 years. At the time of our initial MC, we had been married 20 years (daughters at the time 9 and 7). Life was busy - very busy - but we had so much to be thankful for. Yet my wife, with the MC's encouragement, focussed on the phantom "bad aspects" as a way to rationalize her feelings.
> 
> Edit: Forgot to add that my stbxw blurted out that "I wanted children more than SHE did". This is the same woman who is fighting for 50% custody because she "misses being a mother to her daughters".
> 
> It was all my fault, all along, apparently....:scratchhead:


Wow! That is some major delusion. Does she think you are supposed to make her feel good about her cheating? Guess she is spending too much time with her enabling toxic friends and expects the same treatment from everybody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

BTW. Looks like if you are male BS, you should play safe and avoid female MCs. Sorry for being so politically incorrect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Numbersixxx said:


> BTW. Looks like if you are male BS, you should play safe and avoid female MCs. Sorry for being so politically incorrect.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or male or female MCs who are cheaters themselves?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

I think the issue is finding someone that has a moral compass, and doesn't justify unjust actions on the basis of feeling.


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Or male or female MCs who are cheaters themselves?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah well... they usually don't advertise themselves as adulteress MCs. Maybe they think it's bad for the business.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Numbersixxx said:


> Yeah well... they usually don't advertise themselves as adulteress MCs. Maybe they think it's bad for the business.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There was a thread here started by a BS whose husband had an affair, they went into MC and the MC had an affair with the husband!

Turns out her licence to practice had been cancelled. Wonder why?


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Numbersixxx said:


> BTW. Looks like if you are male BS, you should play safe and avoid female MCs. Sorry for being so politically incorrect.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I actually had a Female MC. She was on my side. I know the OM stopped my wife from going back because he knows it counter productive to him keeping her. 

Its a shame since my wife really has some issues that she could have addressed even if she was leaving me.


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