# I am “in love”. Just not with my wife.



## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

How do I fall OUT of love? How do I find my wife more attractive and find my employee less attractive?

That’s right, I do not find my wife attractive and I am obsessed with an employee. I think each is fueling the other and the gap is widening. The employee is not in love with me. It's one-way love = obsession. Sure there’s more under the surface. But, after months of anguish, self-reflection, talks, tears, fears, anxiety, hurt feelings, soul searching and restless nights, I have reduced it to this: I need to close the gap between my fantasy and my reality. I need to find my wife more attractive and find my employee less attractive. How? I don’t know.

So, it’s a two part question: How can I find my wife more attractive? How can I find my employee less attractive? There’s another thread titled “no longer attracted to my wife”, not by me, but by another poster. His thread prompted me to write mine, with the added complication of the obsession with someone else. With that in mind, I guess I can read the advice he is given about how to find his wife more attractive, or about how she can make herself more attractive. And yes, I have been down that road with mine and those conversations are slippery-sloped, self-esteem- crushing, depression- evoking, body image- revealing conversations. I am waiting for her to take action.

Quick history: 51 Y.O. Male. Married 27 years. LD wife. Yes, there’s a long back story to this. I don’t want to waste too much time on that. Long story short, I am obsessed with a 33 year old female employee of mine. She is HD and has told me of her lifestyle. That opened Pandora's box for me to pursue my happiness and started my obsession. 

She has no interest in me. She knows I am/was interested in her. Yes, I know it’s wrong and I know it’s an illusion. But, that doesn't stop it from feeling real. Yes, it’s an emotional affair. I get that. Don’t scold me. I have done plenty of that. How do I make it go away? No. I can’t fire her, relocate her, or get rid of her in any way. How can I fall out of love?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I'm afraid you will have to "waste" time on explaining the back story if you want any helpful advice here.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Can you tell us what it is about your wife that you find unattractive? And did your lack of attraction for her come first, or did it start after you began noticing your young employee?

Why can't you fire or relocate your employee? If it's truly impossible to remove her from the situation, can you find another job and remove yourself from it?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Well, you're not in love with this other woman. You're in love with a fantasy life. You'll never see your wife as attractive as long as she's in competition with a fairy tail. She won't feel desire towards you either when your mind is off with someone else. Even if you don't tell her specifically, she knows you are not attracted and wanting her. 

So either commit to work on your marriage 100% or leave it. Look for other jobs in the meantime, a transfer for yourself or something where you won't see the other woman. Fall in love with your wife again- spend a lot of alone time together, date, be romantic, meet emotional needs- do what you did in the beginning. She has to be on board with this and reciprocate but you can start to make the effort to break the ice.


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

One cannot simply choose to have that "in love" feeling. As in the Love Languages book (get it!), we feel in love when we allow someone to satisfy our needs, be it sex/touch, affirmation, etc. So there is no switch to make you feel in love with her. I suggest that you both do the questionaire and go over it with each other. I have been where you are, and it is possible for your wife to begin meeting your needs, at which time the in love feelings will rekindle. It can't happen otherwise!

Secondly, the other woman with whom you are having an emotional affair with. Apparently you don't have any boundaries to protect your marriage. You can't let someone outside of the marriage meet your needs. That is a tangled web that will have disasterous consequences!


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
How to stop being attracted to your coworker - marry her. What I mean is that you are attracted to your FANTASY of her, and once you had to live with her you would very likely discover a whole range of issues. 

The problem is that you are in a HD/LD situation and you are desperate for sex, affection, intimacy, being desired, all that. (been there, in fact AM there). 

The sad part is that if you left your wife for a HD woman you would be gloriously happy - for a while. Once you had all the sex you could want though, other things would start to be important. Then who knows. 

A couple of thoughts:
First: She is your employee. So STOP. You cannot have a balanced relationship with someone who works for you. As a matter of personal honor, you need to not take advantage of her. Even if she were initiating, you would need to turn her down.


OK, what about other women: That is your choice. You are free to decide that sex is important to you and to divorce your wife. Do it first. If you have an affair with a HD woman, it will be so nice at first that you will want a divorce anyway. So ask for one now, and keep your honor.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Aroma therapy can work. Get something that smells horrible, actively think of this employee while forcing yourself to smell something horrible. 

An example, close your eyes and imagine yourself having sex with this employee and she asks you to go down on her. Imagine it as vividly as you can while at the same time keeping your eyes closed forcing yourself to smell and even perhaps taste rotten milk.

Repeat as needed using:

Rotten milk.
Burning a clump of hair.
Anything with a rancid/repulsive smell.

Best wishes,
Badsanta


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> How do I fall OUT of love? How do I find my wife more attractive and find my employee less attractive?
> 
> That’s right, I do not find my wife attractive and I am obsessed with an employee. I think each is fueling the other and the gap is widening. The employee is not in love with me. It's one-way love = obsession. Sure there’s more under the surface. But, after months of anguish, self-reflection, talks, tears, fears, anxiety, hurt feelings, soul searching and restless nights, I have reduced it to this: *I need to close the gap between my fantasy and my reality.* I need to find my wife more attractive and find my employee less attractive. How? I don’t know.
> 
> ...


You are attracted to a dream, a dream of what you feel you can never have. That makes what you do have look terrible in comparison. You're also fighting a biological impulse to be sexually attracted to the fertile young woman instead of the post-menopausal older one. It's not either woman's fault, it's just the way most men work.

I would put distance between you and this employee. Focus on her bad qualities - everyone has some. Deal with her through other people, at arm's length, etc. If you can't, be sure to shut her down when she starts to talk about her sex life - tell her it's inappropriate for a work place conversation. What kind of person starts blabbing that stuff to her boss anyway? Are you sure she's not just manipulating you into being attracted to her so she gets some intangible benefits at work? Better shifts, more likely to get a raise, less likely to be told to do the yucky duties, etc?


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

technovelist said:


> I'm afraid you will have to "waste" time on explaining the back story if you want any helpful advice here.


First, my apologies for replying to each of your responses. But, I truly appreciate each of you taking time to help me.

I have nothing to hide in the back story. I just have been down that road already. I now know that I need to somehow narrow that gap between the fantasy and reality.
How to find my wife more attractive? How to find my "fantasy" less attractive? Are what I think are the two key elements. To retell all details only opens the thread to too many topics.


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Rowan said:


> Can you tell us what it is about your wife that you find unattractive? And did your lack of attraction for her come first, or did it start after you began noticing your young employee?
> 
> Why can't you fire or relocate your employee? If it's truly impossible to remove her from the situation, can you find another job and remove yourself from it?


Primarily, what I find unattractive about my wife is her figure; her body. She has a shape that is unappealing to me. I am very visually stimulated for sexual arousal. 

My lack of attraction for my wife has slowly mounted over the past 27 years as she has drifted from her young body to now and has never made much effort to change. It has escalated in the past few months.

The best analogy I can think of for the situation is it is like my employee and I are the only IT people at a company. There would be no other position for her at the company. She knows she is great at her job. She is. To fire her would be ludicrous and likely set me up for a law suit. For me to leave seems equally difficult. I am not marketable like an IT guy. I have reached the point of highly specialized and overpaid.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Well, you're not in love with this other woman. You're in love with a fantasy life. You'll never see your wife as attractive as long as she's in competition with a fairy tail. She won't feel desire towards you either when your mind is off with someone else. Even if you don't tell her specifically, she knows you are not attracted and wanting her.
> 
> So either commit to work on your marriage 100% or leave it. Look for other jobs in the meantime, a transfer for yourself or something where you won't see the other woman. Fall in love with your wife again- spend a lot of alone time together, date, be romantic, meet emotional needs- do what you did in the beginning. She has to be on board with this and reciprocate but you can start to make the effort to break the ice.


Great point. You say 'I am in love with a fantasy life'. My issue is, that it is hard for me to accept that it is only a fantasy. It seems to be a reality for her and for others on these boards. 

You say spend a lot of alone time, do what we did at the beginning. In the beginning, I found her attractive. Now, I don't. That's my problem. Just being with her doesn't make her attractive.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Capster said:


> One cannot simply choose to have that "in love" feeling. As in the Love Languages book (get it!), we feel in love when we allow someone to satisfy our needs, be it sex/touch, affirmation, etc. So there is no switch to make you feel in love with her. I suggest that you both do the questionaire and go over it with each other. I have been where you are, and it is possible for your wife to begin meeting your needs, at which time the in love feelings will rekindle. It can't happen otherwise!
> 
> Secondly, the other woman with whom you are having an emotional affair with. Apparently you don't have any boundaries to protect your marriage. You can't let someone outside of the marriage meet your needs. That is a tangled web that will have disasterous consequences!


I bought the book (and others recommended on here.) I read it. she has not. I have asked her to read it. I am waiting. I know my love language. I know hers. But, it is not as simple as the examples in the book. 

I have boundaries. I had kept them up for 26+ years. The employee found a way in. I am trying to put them back up.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Primarily, what I find unattractive about my wife is her figure; her body. She has a shape that is unappealing to me. I am very visually stimulated for sexual arousal.


Instead of watching teeny bobber porn where the actresses and actors jack hammer like a bunny rabbit:










You might want to watch something a little more mature and curvy in order to appreciate the sensuality of what you have:










Badsanta


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> How to stop being attracted to your coworker - marry her. What I mean is that you are attracted to your FANTASY of her, and once you had to live with her you would very likely discover a whole range of issues.
> 
> The problem is that you are in a HD/LD situation and you are desperate for sex, affection, intimacy, being desired, all that. (been there, in fact AM there).
> ...


This is a great reply. For me, at least. This is what I need to hear. I need to hear more people convince me that she is only a fantasy. 
And you're right. I am in a HD/LD situation. The first few months of this were trying to make that better. Now, I am just hoping to go back to how things were. Sex was rare, but at least I wanted it (with my wife). Now, I don't even want that. The fantasy is better.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> You are attracted to a dream, a dream of what you feel you can never have. That makes what you do have look terrible in comparison. You're also fighting a biological impulse to be sexually attracted to the fertile young woman instead of the post-menopausal older one. It's not either woman's fault, it's just the way most men work.
> 
> I would put distance between you and this employee. Focus on her bad qualities - everyone has some. Deal with her through other people, at arm's length, etc. If you can't, be sure to shut her down when she starts to talk about her sex life - tell her it's inappropriate for a work place conversation. What kind of person starts blabbing that stuff to her boss anyway? Are you sure she's not just manipulating you into being attracted to her so she gets some intangible benefits at work? Better shifts, more likely to get a raise, less likely to be told to do the yucky duties, etc?


Again. I agree. Chasing a dream. But, I have never been so obsessed with anything in my life. I think irrationally. I have been trying to focus on her bad qualities. I did research obsessions and how to get over them (without drugs, for now). I do try to shut her down if our casual conversations lead towards...and then (insert boyfriend name here) came over (btw, she is recently divorced since new husband was not attentive to her needs)...We have had the "it's inappropriate" and "if we have to whisper" we shouldn't say it. I lately have tried to not look at her. To not make eye contact. But, it's impossible to avoid someone in an 8 hour day when they are your only employee and, at times, you work side by side.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't see a way out of your dilemma if you stay with your wife. She won't get any younger. In fact she will get older and her body will follow suit. How are you going to re-establish an attraction to a body that will not reverse aging to arouse you? 

The kindest thing for both you and your wife may be to D. There is no reason that you cannot try and find young bodies to get sex. You should try to make the best of what you have and be realistic. I would imagine the competition is fierce. There are probably about 50 middle-aged D men looking for sex for every one young woman. You would have to make the cut. You can't be too obvious about your agenda, they have probably been inundated. I am sure it's not impossible.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Aroma therapy can work. Get something that smells horrible, actively think of this employee while forcing yourself to smell something horrible.
> 
> An example, close your eyes and imagine yourself having sex with this employee and she asks you to go down on her. Imagine it as vividly as you can while at the same time keeping your eyes closed forcing yourself to smell and even perhaps taste rotten milk.
> 
> ...


Best response ever! This is real. This is concrete. I love this. I am actually a big fan of aroma therapy. I have many essential oils, candles etc.
I have never thought to use this in reverse. I may actually give this a try.
It is similar to focusing on her bad qualities. Which I have been trying to do...unfortunately since obsessed, I often find I justify her bad qualities by saying they are actually adorable. That's how I know i am in love with her. But, not if she smells like rotten milk...I hope my wife doesn't question why i didn't put the milk away...:laugh:

thanks all! Just typing and reading helps me. I think.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

This one is very easy.
You need to never see your employee again. There are two ways to make that happen.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't see a way out of your dilemma. Your wife won't get any younger. In fact she will get older and her body will follow suit. How are you going to re-establish an attraction to a body that will not change to arouse you?
> 
> The kindest thing for both you and your wife may be to D. There is no reason that you cannot try and find young bodies to get sex. You should try to make the best of what you have and be realistic. I would imagine the competition is fierce. There are probably about 50 middle-aged D men looking for sex for every one young woman. You would have to make the cut. You can't be too obvious about your agenda, they have probably been inundated. I am sure it's not impossible.


I suspect you are serious, but your response helps to dissuade me from divorce. I read another response months ago, similarly presenting the odds of a middle-aged man finding an HD, young, attractive partner. NOT LIKELY> I have done a lot of thinking on this matter. While I am not ugly, I recognize that I have not had to fight off many women over the years.

I understand that my employee is not, nor will ever be, attracted to me. She, like any HD, attractive woman, can choose from almost any guy. She does. That scenario was something that, while obvious to most, took me a while to really comprehend and accept. That while I was drawn to her by her frustration with her husband's lack of interest in her, she was not at all drawn to me. She was planning her escape to return to her days of picking from the field.

I realize that, not only have I not had to reject any HD woman, I have not had to reject any LD woman. That although I now know that HD women do exist (something I really didn't believe before 10 months ago), I also know that I can't have one. And to divorce for the chance at an HD woman would be silly. 

Learning that my employee is HD, that she does like frequent erotic sex, and that she does live this lifestyle led me to further investigate this rare phenomenon. Unfortunately, discussion forums like these often are a collection of outliers that unite to normalize a behavior (i.e. there are more HD women on these board per poster than there are per capita in the real world). That lead me to think that I too could have this lifestyle. I have now come to realize that me thinking I can have that lifestyle is no more realistic than me thinking I can have the lifestyle of LeBron James. It just can't happen. 

Hence, I am where I began this thread. I have to find a way to find my wife more attractive and to find my employee less attractive...to the spoiled milk.

And notice, I didn't say "my wife has to be more attractive". I say I have to find a way to find her more attractive. I know it is up to me, too.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Hicks said:


> This one is very easy.
> You need to never see your employee again. There are two ways to make that happen.


Yeah. But, is it really "her" I am in love with or the fantasy? As several other posters have pointed out, it is just the fantasy. IF so, then separate me from her and I will latch on to the next fantasy girl I encounter. I shouldn't have to be physically separated from someone to be able to control my urges, obsessions, etc.
I need to fix it. Not get rid of it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think she is playing you. She knows what she is doing. It is totally inappropriate to talk about being HD with a coworker. What does she hope to accomplish by sharing such intimacies. She is recently D and probably needs the reassurance of the attention. It may make her feel extra good that she sustains the attention of a man who she is not even attracted to. Plus she has her bf. Not bad. 

At the very lest, step back and see yourself from an outside perspective. Do you think she can see you in a positive light or with respect? Indeed can the other people in your department? Are you certain she is not laughing about her escapades with her bf and work mates? Do the people in your department know she is playing you and gleefully following her antics like a realty show. How is that for cooling this fantasy?? 

I guessing of course but it may help to reframe what is going on. May make it easier to extricate yourself and get a plan of action. Maybe I'm wrong but think about it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I suspect you are serious, but your response helps to dissuade me from divorce. I read another response months ago, similarly presenting the odds of a middle-aged man finding an HD, young, attractive partner. NOT LIKELY> I have done a lot of thinking on this matter. While I am not ugly, I recognize that I have not had to fight off many women over the years.
> 
> I understand that my employee is not, nor will ever be, attracted to me. She, like any HD, attractive woman, can choose from almost any guy. She does. That scenario was something that, while obvious to most, took me a while to really comprehend and accept. That while I was drawn to her by her frustration with her husband's lack of interest in her, she was not at all drawn to me. She was planning her escape to return to her days of picking from the field.
> 
> ...


The odds thing is ridiculous, I don't know where you got that from so don't get all down and out. How many D middle-aged men do you know who are in relationships? The age separation may be less 20 yrs but they manage to find a sexually compatible woman. Besides, young HD women get older too. 

I was being hyperbolic to get you to be realistic. Don't let fear keep you in the marriage and don't get a D because you think that you will meet HD attractive young women. You will meet someone who can make you happy if you give it time, should it come to that. Just read some of the threads from D men in the Divorce section. They meet women and eventually form loving relationships.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Yeah. But, is it really "her" I am in love with or the fantasy? As several other posters have pointed out, it is just the fantasy. IF so, then separate me from her and I will latch on to the next fantasy girl I encounter. I shouldn't have to be physically separated from someone to be able to control my urges, obsessions, etc.
> I need to fix it. Not get rid of it.


The number one rule for couples trying to reconcile after infidelity - yes, even after an emotional affair such as yours - is that the wayward spouse has to go No-Contact with their affair partner. Why? Because as long as they're in contact, the affair is always a glance, a word, a moment away from flaring to life again. It's impossible to heal a marriage when the wayward spends all day every day with their "former" affair partner. There's no sense of safety for the betrayed spouse and it's disrespectful to them and the marriage. There's also a world of temptation for the wayward, full of pent-up longing and fantasy, that makes it hard to re-focus on their spouse and marriage. 

By the way, you shouldn't know enough about other women's sex lives to know that they're high-drive. One of the main reasons you're so hot for your employee is that you _do_ have too much information about her. Once you're no longer in contact with her, you shouldn't ever again find yourself with that much over-shared sexual knowledge about another woman, so those other ladies should be much less tempting than this one you do know too much about.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> This is a great reply. For me, at least. This is what I need to hear. I need to hear more people convince me that she is only a fantasy.
> And you're right. I am in a HD/LD situation. The first few months of this were trying to make that better. Now, I am just hoping to go back to how things were. Sex was rare, but at least I wanted it (with my wife). Now, I don't even want that. The fantasy is better.


The not wanting it is probably largely due to not getting it and it being lousy or duty sex when you do get it. 

Unfortunately that's a tough loop to break.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Really good point!
OP, I would be VERY suspicious of a coworker, especially someone under you in the organization to told you about their sexual interests.

I assume of course that the OP didn't bring up the subject in violation of all sorts of workplace harassment rules, and general ethics. 



Catherine602 said:


> I think she is playing you. She knows what she is doing. It is totally inappropriate to talk about being HD with a coworker. What does she hope to accomplish by sharing such intimacies. She is recently D and probably needs the reassurance of the attention. It may make her feel extra good that she sustains the attention of a man who she is not even attracted to. Plus she has her bf. Not bad.
> 
> .


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Yeah. But, is it really "her" I am in love with or the fantasy? As several other posters have pointed out, it is just the fantasy. IF so, then separate me from her and I will latch on to the next fantasy girl I encounter. I shouldn't have to be physically separated from someone to be able to control my urges, obsessions, etc.
> I need to fix it. Not get rid of it.


WRONG.

Togetherness drives feelings. You are spending more time with your employee than with your wife. That is the problem in it's entirety.

Stop spending time with your employee and start spending time with your wife. Thats concrete, actionable and will give you results.

If you really cared about fixing the problem you state that you have, you would not resist this suggestion.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OP, I read some of your other posts. I see nothing to suggest you want to fix your relationship. Stop hurting your wife and end it.


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Hicks said:
> 
> 
> > This one is very easy.
> ...



It does not matter if it's really her or not. You got yourself into this, now you need to make the hard choices to get yourself out. 

And it is a hard decision. You just need to ask yourself what is more important...


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

What exactly do you not like about your wife? Is it changeable? Is she open to the change? That is what you need to be focused on. Not your employees... 

If it is something that can be changed and she is open to it, put your energy into that and not thinking about that woman. That's doing harm to your wife and you.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

To try to address a few of the common themes without quoting each individual question or reply:

1. Regarding the employee's actions. Her confiding in me happened mostly between Jul 2014 and Dec 2014, culminating in my reciprocating and becoming inquisitive. Since then, she has not divulged too much. She is not playing me. She talks more freely about sex-with other people, with her dad, with friends that most women do. She is not embarrassed by it. 

2. I agree that if I never saw her again, that would help. But, I am not planning to change jobs. I am not planning to get rid of her. Those are not options I am considering at this time.

3. At this time-Divorce is also not an option I am considering. I love my wife. I am not attracted to her, right now. But I love her. I am committed to my marriage. I am devoted to her. I am expecting this to be a phase that I fight through. 

4. What is it about my wife that I don't find attractive: I reduced it to the one thing that seems most important to me: Physical appearance. And, to reduce even further to just her shape, her figure. But, for her to make that change, she has other issues in the way.

When my frustrations first surfaced 10 months ago, it was all about sex: more sex, better sex, for her to want it, for her to be HD. I learned and realized that she had bigger issues with depression, self-esteem, body image, and physical health. We back-tracked to try to deal more with this from a health issue. We discussed the need for her to get mentally and physically healthy. I encouraged her to see her doctors. I even went with her to one. 

That leads to the health issues. She has a long list of them- Nothing tremendously debilitating but daily ailments: allergies, arthritis, back pain, depression, heartburn, high blood pressure, spinal osteoporosis, hypothyroid, sinus infections, lactose intolerance (no pizza), canker sores (no citrus) and frequent yeast infections (no alcohol or sex). She is on 4-5 prescription meds. Wow! when I itemize it, it really seems overwhelming. 

She does not work. She quit her job about 5 years ago shortly after I spent 9 years, going to night school to earn an advanced degree. She is now looking for work again. A task that is "paralyzing" her. 

While I wax and wane over many of these issues, I am currently trying to be as supportive as I can be while still letting her understand the direction I expect this relationship to go. For her to try. For her to take action. For her to see her doctors. To get her mind and body healthy. To gain energy, enthusiasm, passion, joy. 

So, when I say the one thing I find unattractive is her body, I understand you can all see that it is much deeper than that. But, if she can progress with the other issues, I think it will culminate in a healthier body, a more attractive body.

Thanks for being there.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> How to stop being attracted to your coworker - marry her. What I mean is that you are attracted to your FANTASY of her, and once you had to live with her you would very likely discover a whole range of issues.
> 
> The problem is that you are in a HD/LD situation and you are desperate for sex, affection, intimacy, being desired, all that. (been there, in fact AM there).
> ...


I wanted to back-track to this earlier reply. I reflected on this as I drove home last night and realized that my lack of total commitment to my wife; my continued obsession with my employee is in large part because I AM NOT CONVINCED.

ARE YOU SURE? CONVINCE ME THAT I WOULDN'T BE ECSTATIC TO BE WITH MY EMPLOYEE, OR MY FANTASY GIRL, OR ANYONE ELSE. CONVINCE ME THAT IT WOULDN'T BE BETTER.

I have never been with anyone except my wife. Sad but true.

Start with the emotional: I have read where the "in love" experience lasts, on average, 2 years. For those of you with multiple relationships, when that wears off, is sex the same with each partner? Is it strictly an emotional experience that makes sex good?

Or can it be just physical? Is PIV intercourse intrinsically similar. That is, if unaware of the partner, would PIV feel the same with anyone? Or, is sex with some people better than with others. Do some vaginas feel different? I really don't know.

If I hired an "escort", would I find the sexual experience to be fantastic or regrettable? Why?

EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN WITH MULTIPLE PARTNERS...PLEASE SHARE.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
If physical sensations are what matters, buy some fleshlights. Really - they come in a wide variety of textures, much wider range than actual humans.

Sex with different people is different because of how they react. You have no idea if your employee is good in bed.

If you really are unhappy with your sex life, then you can divorce. That is your choice and I would not fault you for it.

Then find someone who is NOT an employee, avoid the ethical and possibly legal issues. 

You think she could be the love of your life? Why? What is unique about her?






Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I wanted to back-track to this earlier reply. I reflected on this as I drove home last night and realized that my lack of total commitment to my wife; my continued obsession with my employee is in large part because I AM NOT CONVINCED.
> 
> ARE YOU SURE? CONVINCE ME THAT I WOULDN'T BE ECSTATIC TO BE WITH MY EMPLOYEE, OR MY FANTASY GIRL, OR ANYONE ELSE. CONVINCE ME THAT IT WOULDN'T BE BETTER.
> 
> ...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

So, OP, there seems to be a long litany of things your wife needs to fix to make you happy. What are you fixing for her to make her happy? How about things you're fixing for you to make you happy? What are you doing to change and or improve your situation?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

We can't convince you of anything. 

I can tell you though that you should picture yourself brushing your teeth while your 33 yo coworker is having a poopoo on the toilet. Because if you were really WITH her, that would eventually be your reality. 

You haven't woken up to reality yet because you don't have to. Your wife is reality. 

Eventually, this woman would be no different than your wife. I'd make an analogy to wet wipes, but I really don't want posters to get the wrong impression and offended.... Because that's not my intention, but I think you see where I'm going.


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

You named a long list of issues your wife has. Is she doing anything to address the situation? It sounds like she made be overweight (you don't like her shape), have you encouraged her to work out? 

You said "for better or worse, sickness and health" you agreed to that. It doesn't mean when stuff gets thick, to bang your employee. 
That could set you up for lawsuits and all sorts of problems. Totally not worth it. 

Now if you have done EVERYTHING as a husband to love and cherish and encourage your wife, and make her feel safe, and she just refuses to do anything or even attempt to meet your needs, you know what to do. But you must make sure you are up to par on what YOUR responsibilities are as a husband. 

If she makes you so miserable, why stay?


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

Rowan said:


> So, OP, there seems to be a long litany of things your wife needs to fix to make you happy. What are you fixing for her to make her happy? How about things you're fixing for you to make you happy? What are you doing to change and or improve your situation?


That's what I want to know. Is he a good husband, by this thread, I'd have to say no


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I need to hear more people convince me that she is only a fantasy.


I mean.... this isn't exactly abnormal though I think you're just oddly dramatic. Obsession is a strong word, though I guess if you work with her closely all day long its hard to not think about her. You don't really "love" this other woman though do you? It just sounds like lust to me and there is a big difference. I'm guessing you just want to bone her cause she's a young hottie? Am I right? That's not weird.

Just do what most guys do. Take a mental snap shot, go home, rub one out to her, and be done with it. Enjoy the eye candy but don't make a fool of yourself thinking you have a chance and/or destroying your marriage for nothing. You don't want the baggage of a woman half your age anyway. Trust me.

On the flip side, if you've lost attraction to your wife because she's let herself go and you haven't then that's a fair complaint. Assuming you still want to be married to her then put more energy on that front. Encourage her to join the gym with you and eat better. It's really not hard to get in shape and look DECENT if you just put six months of serious effort in.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

We have 2 kids in college. Wife went back to college to get a certificate so she would have access to better jobs. One of her professors was about our age (50s) and a few years ago he divorced his wife (mother of his 2 kids who are college aged) and married a young hottie. He is miserable. He spent half of each class complaining that he works all day and then teaches class at night to make more money because he has to pay for college for the first set of kids and he has to support wife #2 and second batch of young kids and he'll be 65 when they get to college age and he'll never be able to relax or retire or have any free time and will probably drop dead at his desk.

So be careful what you fantasize about and what you go after. The reality is unlikely to match the fantasy.


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## chrystyana (Oct 14, 2015)

Yes, definitely a back story needed!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Are YOU in good shape?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

There's plusses and minuses for any relationship. Young women will give you problems related to their phase of life while also giving you pleasures related to their phase of life.

You say you don't want a divorce. So it's silly to wonder whether or not you would be happier with someone else. You are seeking the fulfillment you may get from Person B while being married to Person A. All people are different so it doesn't work that way. Man up sir... If you don't want a divorce, and you would prefer a fulfilling marriage, are you willing to open the door to that ? 

How to open the door to a fulfilling marriage with your wife?
1. Elimate the influence of person B which is completely blocking you from maritial fuilfllment
2. Spend time with your wife doing fun things on a frequent basis.
3. Communicate to your wife in such a way that you are telling her what your idea of marriage and fufillment are like, and constantly put her in a position to choose this way of living or reject it.

There is no guarantees in life, but unless you set the environment for the possiblity of a good marriage with your wife, it is impossible to attain it.


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## thebirdman (Apr 5, 2014)

Sounds to me like you already know what you want. Time to take affirmative action. Affirmative action is hard. Minimize your exposure to your employee. If you can't, alter your career path. I know it sounds crazy, but take it from a career driven person: relationships outrank careers. Find out how you receive love and how your wife receives love. Those are often different. You have to learn how to show her love the way she receives it and she has to learn to do the same for you. The feelings are not always constant but they can return.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Thanks for input. Again, will try to batch the common themes and reply.

1. Many responses point out that: My employee is the fantasy and my wife is the reality. The problem is my employee is real. I was given a glimpse of what could be. "Once upon a time, a door opened and two worlds collided. Dreams clashed with reality. The mundane mixed with the marvelous. It was no longer possible to tell where one world began and the other ended."

2. Some extrapolate my desires: She is not the love of my life. I don't want to marry her. I never said either. I wonder what it would be like to be with her. I more than wonder. I am obsessed. That I know. I am unusually fixated on her. She is a 7 out of 10, yet I would choose her over anyone. I notice what she wears. Which earrings she has on. Whether she is wearing her fragrance, eyeliner. If she has her hair up, down or in a pony tail. I don't want to. But, I do. That's why I know it's obsession. I recognize that I am putting her on a pedestal that she doesn't deserve. But, I can't break her spell.

3. You have suggested that I communicate with my wife, man up, tell her what I want, what I expect. For the first 26 years, we loved each other with very few complaints. I would occasionally try to get her to lose weight, exercise, diet, do more active things with me etc. and she, in turn, would ask things of me. We tried to please each other, we compromised, we conceded, we moved on because life got in the way. We bought a house, cars, raised kids, promoted careers and grew older. Then, 10 months ago, this started. Combine with mid-life crisis, empty nest and I cracked. My walls tumbled down. I let the employee expose my weakness. A Catholic with HD. Conflicted between selfish and selfless. Torn between making me happy or making her happy. I challenged her with what I learned. We talked. Rather, I talked, she listened, she cried, she crumbled, she withdrew. She wants to make me happy, but really it's just not her. I am now trying to piece things back together. Even to how they were. For her sake. Not mine.

4. Am I in good shape? Yes. But, unfortunately that doesn't matter to her. My shape does not preclude her nor stimulate her to love me. I wish it did. My physical appearance is unimportant to her. Physical appearance is vital to me. My father died of a heart attack at 53. I am 51. I exercise almost everyday. I have run many races, including 5K, 10K, 1/2 marathons, full marathons. I have completed Tough Mudders. I think I look pretty good for 51. I am tall, lean, muscular. I eat healthy. My blood tests are all good. I just took my Health Risk Assessment yesterday, as a requirement for work. I scored 96 out of 100. Only knock seemed to be that I admitted I am under stress and I work too much.

5. Am I a good husband. NO! Not lately. I am on these boards, after all, sharing my innermost thoughts and secrets with a bunch of strangers. I am betraying my wife's trust in me right now. On the other hand, I am trying to make things better for her. I have read the books. Her primary Love Language is Quality Time. I am trying to spend more time with her. That's tough when I wake at 6am and return home around 6p and work about 1/4 Saturdays and she falls asleep by 9p on the couch. I am trying to be more supportive of her attempts to exercise, eat right, look for work, deal with her health issues, deal with her stresses. I have bought her flowers or at least one rose almost every Friday this year (some Fridays I work too late, travel or life got in the way somehow). I am trying to do more things for her, say nice things to her or touch her affectionately for no reason. (That covers all 5 of the Love Languages, BTW).

6. What is she doing? That's where I get a little angry. I don't think she is doing enough. I don't think she knows how to do more. I want her to commit to this like I would. I want her to recognize how much this does mean to me, but that's a double edged sword. The more pressure I put on her, the more she feels overwhelmed. The more she feels like she can't live up to my expectations. 

That's back to why I reduced my wish list to her just getting in a little better shape. That's what I want her to do to show me that we matter to her.

What does she want from me? To stop asking her to change. To love her unconditionally, as she does me.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> Are YOU in good shape?


I wondered about his appearance too. But then again, looks don't matter to women.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Thanks for input. Again, will try to batch the common themes and reply.
> 
> 1. Many responses point out that: My employee is the fantasy and my wife is the reality. The problem is my employee is real. I was given a glimpse of what could be. "Once upon a time, a door opened and two worlds collided. Dreams clashed with reality. The mundane mixed with the marvelous. It was no longer possible to tell where one world began and the other ended."
> 
> ...


Conceal, if you want to shake up your wife and get her to open her eyes to your feelings, I can think of no better, honest way than to show her this thread. 

I'm completely serious. If she knows how deeply infatuated you are with your coworker and how you are bored of the status quo, she will either move heaven and earth playing the pick me dance so you can maybe choose her, or she'll let you go so you can find your happiness elsewhere.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Listen dude.

The only way you will actually end your emotional affair/obsession with this woman is when you are no longer in contact with her.

So suck it up and make that happen. Any of this BS "I'm not prepared to do that" talk makes ending your feelings for her very improbable.

Then... it gets harder.

Come clean to your wife. You're no longer attracted to her, and aren't happy with the amount of effort she's putting it. If this other woman had said yes, you'd be in a physical affair right now.

You keep trying to dodge accountability for this situation, and somehow want it to magically go away.

The only thing that will make it go away is for you to take accountability for it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> I wondered about his appearance too. But then again, looks don't matter to women.


Must be because we're not visual 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> That's back to why I reduced my wish list to her just getting in a little better shape. That's what I want her to do to show me that we matter to her.


Curious though, is that all it will take? She gets in a little better shape and then you will magically fall back in love with your wife? What do you consider "little better shape"? Are you thinking if she got in better shape she would suddenly want to mount you like a donkey for days on end? After reading this, I just don't see your solution of "getting in a little better shape" as really the answer to anything. I imagine there is more to your fantasy/obsession with your employee than her just being in better shape, maybe expecting that she would do things your wife would never do?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I wanted to back-track to this earlier reply. I reflected on this as I drove home last night and realized that my lack of total commitment to my wife; my continued obsession with my employee is in large part because I AM NOT CONVINCED.
> 
> ARE YOU SURE? CONVINCE ME THAT I WOULDN'T BE ECSTATIC TO BE WITH MY EMPLOYEE, OR MY FANTASY GIRL, OR ANYONE ELSE. CONVINCE ME THAT IT WOULDN'T BE BETTER.
> 
> ...


You would be ecstatic to have your fantasy come to life. But remember, you need to bring your fantasy self to life. Are you up for that? She can't meet the person you are now because she is not attracted to you. What is her bf or husband like? 

I'm still convinced she is playing you and others in the workplace. She sounds entertaining, in an odd way. How do you know what she tells other people? Are you talking about her sex life with the other people in the office? Are they your subordinates? When this woman leaves and gets on with her life, what will be left of you, your job and your family?

This woman is not for you. She may be a kick in your azz to wake you up. Right now, you are in a deep fog that will eventually lift. It would be easy for you to do something stupid and crash and burn. You will eventually wake from the fog and regret it. There are ways you can change your life but do it with a clear mind and with careful planning and effort.

You sound like a good man. You have to realize that you are having what amounts to an affair. I really hope that you and your wife and family find happiness.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> I wondered about his appearance too. But then again, looks don't matter to women.





lifeistooshort said:


> Must be because we're not visual
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sigh ... now you gals tell me. Looks like I will be trading in my gym for dunkin donuts


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Sigh ... now you gals tell me. Looks like I will be trading in my gym for dunkin donuts


I recommend chocolate cream filled. 

But OP did post back that he is in good shape. That's good..... always irritating when one demands what they can't provide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Satya
It is also possible that she will be totally overwhelmed by the revelations. His wife can never be a 33 yo, HD woman. She is not likely to become the kind of carefree sexy hottie of his fantasies. It's better if she does not know. I think it would be kinder for him to decide if he wants his wife the way she is. She may change a little but only if she wants it. She would be devastated by D but it may be better than dealing with an EA or PA which is highly probable. The outcome for both can be positive. His wife may find someone who awakens her sexually and who loves her just the way she is and he may do the same.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Satya
> It is also possible that she will be totally overwhelmed by the revelations. His wife can never be a 33 yo, HD woman. She is not likely to become the kind of carefree sexy hottie of his fantasies. It's better if she does not know. I think it would be kinder for him to decide if he wants his wife the way she is. She may change a little but only if she wants it. She would be devastated by D but it may be better than dealing with an EA or PA which is highly probable. The outcome for both can be positive. His wife may find someone who awakens her sexually and who loves her just the way she is and he may do the same.


Catherine, absolutely that is a possibility. 

I'm a believer in radical honesty. It isn't for everyone, it just happens to be a language I personally respect. I'd want to know if my SO was disappointed in me and desiring life with another woman, so I knew where I stood and could act accordingly. I'm not looking at the hurt you mention that closely, because that's a given. There will be hurt unless he absolutely drops the OW. It's only a matter of when. 

Your outcome I'm on board with for the both of them. They could absolutely find happiness apart.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think telling her could backfire if the only purpose is to try to get her to change. If my man was obsessed with someone decades younger than myself, I wouldn't even try to compete. And to what end... to not be me, but more like her. The competition bar is just too high! A race that can never be won. I'd fold.

I think he should tell her to be honest and get everything out in the open, not just to try to get her to change.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

OP- I think one thing you are missing is that yes, HD women exist but that doesn't mean they will be sexually compatible with you or even feel HD with you. You could get with your coworker and could end up feeling more LD. 

Because being HD is more than just wanting sex with whoever, whenever. There are other factors. Compatibility with your partner, overall health of the relationship, satisfaction in sex, attraction to partner.

Your wife could be HD and wanting sex in a different situation, your coworker could be LD and not wanting sex in different situations. 

One thing that really kills a woman's drive- feeling unsexy and unwanted. She sees you, she knows you aren't attracted to her, she knows you'd rather a hard bodied young girl and barely even want sex from her anymore. You really think she's going to magically be HD for you? You think your coworker would still be all excited for sex with a partner in that situation? 

So stop thinking the magical answer is to just find a woman who wants sex and start working on yourself to be a man that a woman would want to have sex with and work to build a marriage where someone would want to sex in. 

First things first- stop the fantasy life. It's unattractive and desperate and there's no way you could hide it enough that there's not signs. 
Get a new job, you can't be around your EA if feelings are still there. 
Fall back in love with your wife. Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice Commit to it daily. Maybe even try something like the Love Dare (altered to fit your own marriage) You will feel more attracted to your wife if you are in love with her and have gotten rid of your AP.


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

Dude, you need to have a conversation with your wife and just be honest with her. We cannot convince you of anything. You need to be honest with her.... But make sure the words are sweet, in case you have to eat them later. That should have been the first person you went to about this. If she loves you and you speak to her with love and kindness, she'll be open to what you say. If you're an ass hole about it, you can forget about it


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Well the major responses now seem to be about me being honest with my wife. Although it hasn't come out in this thread, I did go into that months ago in an earlier posting. The day I crossed the line, I came home and told my wife. Even though it was just words, I realized I had jeopardized my job, career, marriage etc. That opened the door to numerous talks about what I felt was missing; about what I wanted; what I needed. That lead me to being honest with her and then lead to her feeling inadequate. She thought she could not live up to my expectations. I have worked for months to try to stay honest with her and for her to better understand that I am only asking for her to change a little. I know she can't be a 33 y.o. HD. That's not what I have asked. I have told her that I realize that physical appearance is very important to me. I have asked her to sometimes where a fragrance, some makeup, to exercise more, to try to get in better shape, to initiate at times. Weeks go by with no change, so I approach the subject again, usually at night before bed. I try to be delicate. She doesn't argue. She doesn't say she won't. She just doesn't do anything.

Today is a bad day. Because I have been on these boards the last few days and thinking more about this, I called her today from work, early this morning because I was again obsessing over a few things that happened this week. I needed to get it off my chest or I knew I would resent her. First, we are reading the book "The Sex Starved Marriage". In the book is a section on Testosterone and the potential that low T can be the reason for LD and several other issues. I had read about this last January and asked her if she would consider trying T therapy. I persuaded her to agree to mention it at her next Gyn appointment in March. She was so anxious about the mention that I had to take a day off of work to go with her to the appointment. When she came out of the appointment, she had been prescribed an antidepressant. She didn't suggest the idea of T. Now, I read about it in the book. She had just gone to her doctor that day and they drew blood to test for many things. I asked her to read the section in the book and to consider that Low T, might be part of her issues-not just with LD, but with low energy, low self esteem etc. I asked her if she would call the doctor and ask them to test for Low T, too. She wouldn't. She was too embarrassed. Second thing, she was, for a while, counting calories. I liked seeing her chart. It told me she was trying. Yesterday, she mentioned having a big lunch and when I asked if that went over her limit (of calories for a meal), she said she wasn't doing that anymore. It disappointed me. Third thing, and this may seem silly, but she is coming off her period. Last night she asked me if "I wanted to smooch". I have periodically tried to explain to her that those kinds of words do not help. That her asking me if I WANT TO, is a reminder that SHE DOES NOT WANT to. I feel that she is saying, I know you probably want to because it's been a while, so I will allow it. 

So, I called her and explained that I was obsessing about those three things. That I wanted just to explain to her what I wish she had said or done instead that would help me. I told her that I wish she would say that she "would like to" or "can we" or just to initiate without asking. I told her that I wish she had said OK to asking the doctor to measure for low T and that it was important to me that she take care of herself and although I find her beautiful I do not like the extra weight. But, I added that I was proud of her for seeing the doctor and getting some tests done. 

Well, it didn't go well. She is now in tears, with a migraine headache. I wish I hadn't said anything. I will leave work early to go home to try to help her. I hate that I hurt her. That means more to me than my own happiness. Many of you have said "man up". 
I will.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It sounds like you were honest yet reasonably sensitive. She is resistant to change or makes excuses for not doing the right thing when she has the opportunity, and does not want to take an active role in solving this - except occasionally with the calorie tracking - but when it gets hard or doesn't give quick results, she gives up.

These are the kinds of discussions my wife and I have frequently, about minor changes we can make in behavior or wording of comments and requests that will be more effective in communicating what we mean or want. We proactively deal with issues - and potential issues - to keep the relationship humming along happily. Letting issues or disappointments go unresolved only makes them grow and become more difficult to deal with later.

So, don't regret telling her about this. Regret that she isn't capable of dealing with it in an adult and mature manner. Now you are trying to console her and essentially undo and unsay the truth. That is a mistake.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

So you asked for her calorie count and then turned her down when she tried to get intimate with you? 

You have to stop trying to change your wife right now when you first have to fix your side before you have a chance at this working. You're just hurting her and your situation more by trying to blame this on her. 

Start looking for a new job, you working with this woman and your wife knowing about it and being asked to, basically, be more like her to turn you on is NOT working. 
Show your wife you are committed to the marriage by starting a new job search to get away from your AP/obsession.


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

Yall need counseling...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You asked about the testosterone but not about the antidepressants. A person who loved her at lest a little would be concerned about her depression. Do you know if she filled the Rx and has she started to take them? Make sure she does she needs them more than testosterone.

You were not thinking when you picked apart loving words and actions. It would be difficult for a person who is emotionally intact to take criticism and ungratefulness of a loving gesture. You were thinking about yourself only. My sympathies go to your wife, she must be very confused and in a great deal of pain. 

There is nothing wrong with her, she not being resistant or refusing to be what you want, she is being herself, the person she's been your entire marriage. Strangely enough, she does not get angry at your constant chipping away at her to fit into your box, she try, fails, and gets depressed. She sounds like a sensitive, loving and authentic soul however, she is not what you want. 

I know you are miserable now and trying to give it your all but sometimes you have to back down and realize when it is time to take a different path. You can see that nothing will be gained by asking your wife for more of what you want, I don't think she has more to give you. Forget yourself and your fantasy temporarily Do the kindest things you can for her and yourself. It may involve some suffering for you both. This prolonged wounding is excruciating to watch.


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