# Maintaining Boundaries



## MAJDEATH

(Full Disclosure: My W has recently joined TAM and may read/respond to my posts. She and I disagree on the benefits of the advice provided on this forum, but I submit that, like other sites that I read/post to (Affair Care, Marriage Builders, etc) you must decide if the advice given applies to your specific situation. Either way, I welcome all responses, including hers)

Recently, it has become necessary for my W and I to define appropriate boundaries for members of the opposite sex. I have communicated my concerns about male non-family members being in our home when I am not there, and she has both agreed to and has demonstrated (as verified by our adult son) that she will not invite others into the house.

I realize that this situation/dynamic is unique to us. She was not aware that it was a problem for me, and I was wrong in not communicating my concerns clearly to her sooner.


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## zookeeper

What are you talking about specifically? Why would men be in your house and why would your wife invite them? Are we talking about the Maytag repairman or "friends?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostme

The OP's wife had a guy coming over and there was foot rubs going on( or something to that nature).

There should not be any men in the house when you or not home, and no going to there place either. I would never allow a man into my home that was not here to fix something if my H is gone, this includes friends.

It is disrespectful,whether you trust them or not to me this is a big NOPE.


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## Openminded

What he's talking about? He's said before (in a number of threads) that his wife has cheated on him. 

If she has joined TAM, I suggest she put her side of the story out there.


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## browser

Yeah if MAJDEATH's wife would be so kind as to post exactly how she can validate being alone in a bedroom with another guy doing collateral foot massages (and being secretive about it), I'd very much like to hear her reasons and justifications for doing so.


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## Spotthedeaddog

why he getting footrubs? It's a bit of a personal thing, but as someone who gets cramping in feet from high arches, all footrubs greatfully received. But still it's a bit of a personal thing.

The other important question is "Who is this guy to you?". If he's a mentor, study buddy, training partner (eg dance/martial arts), family friend, workmate of hers not particularly big deal. If it's a friend of yours...a bit more odd (since you not there, but somethings schedules work like that if he's not there long). But if he's your buddy, footrubs are really borderline, even with health issue (unless acute) (although Rene of 'ello 'ello pops into mind "silly woman, can't you see the poor girl has ..." ).
But all those things assume (1) Your attention, support, sex life are satisfactory; (2) they have valid reason to chat and hang out.

Beyond that? I'd be getting something like a Canary (home security device, with motion sensitive cloud-based recording functionality) and putting it in the house. If suddenly they're not talking in public space any more, or the device is getting moved/disabled then you have good reason to expect somethings wrong - and with the added bonus that such devices are great for catching regular burglars.


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## zookeeper

To be fair, she might not have known that was inappropriate.

Make sure you also tell her not to blow other men or eat yellow snow. She might be unaware those are inappropriate as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61

so let me understand this....your wife fools around with another guy's feet and maybe his lips and you actually have to sit down with her and discuss boundaries...seriously? in what world does this make any sense (i'm sorry i just forgot we elected a racist as president....scratch the world part) ...i would love for her to answer this post and explain her side of this and explain how she saw nothing wrong with that.


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## browser

Xenote said:


> so let me understand this....your wife fools around with another guy's feet and maybe his lips and you actually have to sit down with her and discuss boundaries...seriously? in what world does this make any sense (i'm sorry i just forgot we elected a racist as president....scratch the world part) ...i would love for her to answer this post and explain her side of this and explain how she saw nothing wrong with that.


I think we'll be listening to crickets. That's what I think.


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## EunuchMonk

@MAJDEATH You didn't say what it is you want explicitly. Did you just start the thread for your wife to post? If so, why couldn't she have started it? Do you want TAM's opinion on proper boundaries?


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## sokillme

Called it.

Can't have boundaries without consequences. 

Your not communicating it is bull5hit, but deep down you know. Some things don't have to be communicated. Does she have one of those pens like Men in Black or something?

You should just open your marriage already, at least you would both get the same deal.

If not go get some counseling to try to break the cycle of abuse that you continue to subject yourself to.


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## Apexmale

It sounded to me that the OP was talking about communication. 

I'm not going to question footrubs, men going into his home, and certainly not going to question him on his wife. 

Lets talk about this new communicating he and his wife have engaged in and the extent to which it is or may not be working. Communicating in marriage is much more important than why his wife might have had other men over in his absence or her justifying foot rubs.

Sent from my SM-T337T using Tapatalk


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## TX-SC

If I'm not mistaken, your wife was specifically planning these foot rubs when you would be away from home? I think that falls under the category of deception. She can't say she didn't know this would bother you. She knew very well that it would and that is why she was secretive and hid what she was doing. 

I hope your wife will post here regarding her thinking on why she was so secretive about it. Do you now have to make a list of every possible thing she could do with another person and tell her not to do them? 

So, can she go to his house and give him foot rubs?


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## Blondilocks

I'm guessing she was secretive about the foot rubs because she knew it was WRONG!

Maj, you don't have a communication problem with your wife. You have an honesty problem with your wife. Your last paragraph is bullsh!t. She didn't ride the short bus.


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## Hope1964

@MAJDEATH, wtf is wrong with you???? Do you even read anything that people post to your threads on here? She DIDN'T KNOW?!?!?!?! Is she severely mentally handicapped or something????


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## browser

Hope1964 said:


> @MAJDEATH, wtf is wrong with you???? Do you even read anything that people post to your threads on here? She DIDN'T KNOW?!?!?!?! Is she severely mentally handicapped or something????


She?


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## Hope1964

MAJDEATH said:


> She was not aware that it was a problem for me


His wife.


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## Lostinthought61

Hope1964 said:


> His wife.


perhaps his mind is cloudy from the lack of oxygen, with his head up his butt. ;-)


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## tropicalbeachiwish

MAJDEATH said:


> (Full Disclosure: My W has recently joined TAM and may read/respond to my posts. She and I disagree on the benefits of the advice provided on this forum, but I submit that, like other sites that I read/post to (Affair Care, Marriage Builders, etc) you must decide if the advice given applies to your specific situation. Either way, I welcome all responses, including hers)
> 
> She was not aware that it was a problem for me, and I was wrong in not communicating my concerns clearly to her sooner.


Oh, she knew. SHE KNEW!!!!! That's why she did it when you WEREN'T around. 

I can't wait for her to identify herself.


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## Blondilocks

Don't hold your breath, tropical.


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## browser

IF MAJDEATH's wife is reading this thread she's thinking 1 of 2 things.

1- Those people on the forum aren't getting the real truth, so I will post and clear things up and show them that I am innocent.
2- Damn I ain't walking into no hornet's next they got me PEGGED I can't imagine why MAJDEATH hasn't figured it out for himself.

Her continued silence will speak volumes. Not that we really need to not hear anything else of course.


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## MarriedDude

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Oh, she knew. SHE KNEW!!!!! That's why she did it when you WEREN'T around.
> 
> I can't wait for her to identify herself.


It wasn't me!!!!!!!!!!!

It was the one armed man. You find this one armed man...then, then, and only then will you have something similar to truth regarding the alleged footrubs


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## Openminded

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Oh, she knew. SHE KNEW!!!!! That's why she did it when you WEREN'T around.
> 
> I can't wait for her to identify herself.


It would be interesting, I'm sure, but probably not very likely. 

And he tends to abandon his threads (maybe because he doesn't hear what he wants to -- who knows) so there's that.


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## Lostme

I thought he actually did get a lawyer and move out, since haven't heard from him.

But then I should have known better than that.


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## browser

Lostme said:


> I thought he actually did get a lawyer and move out, since haven't heard from him.
> 
> But then I should have known better than that.


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## Openminded

Lostme said:


> I thought he actually did get a lawyer and move out, since haven't heard from him.
> 
> But then I should have known better than that.


The TAM pattern when they go dark is usually the opposite of that -- and they are reluctant to admit it. 

When they get a lawyer and move out they are ready to share that. 

When they don't, well . . . Especially when they keep taking a serial cheater back. Not much encouragement for that decision.


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## browser

Openminded said:


> The TAM pattern when they go dark is usually the opposite of that -- and they are reluctant to admit it.
> 
> When they get a lawyer and move out they are ready to share that.
> 
> When they don't, well . . . Especially when they keep taking a serial cheater back. Not much encouragement for that decision.


It's much, much worse than that. She's a serial foot massager.


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## becareful2

Sorry, Major, but your wife is not a woman of integrity or honor. Didn't she write a book on relationship? How in the world could she not have known? She would have to be the stupidest woman on the face of the earth to not know that having another man in your house to give her an intimate foot rub while you were away was not okay. If she had an ounce of respect for you or your marriage, she wouldn't have done that. And here, you are excusing her behavior as having a lack of boundary. You say she didn't think it was a big deal to secretly arrange to have another man give her a foot rub. I think your wife may have thought that given all the times she spread her legs for other men, that getting a foot rub would be no big deal. What is there to really fight for? Whether you go by morals, integrity, class, honor, character, or just plain looks, there are millions of women out there who far surpass her. I wish I could take over your body for one day so I could throw her to the curb after having her served with divorce papers. 

It's your life but I think you deserve better. You're just scared of letting go and wading out to the unknown waters.


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## GuyInColorado

He must be getting mind blowing sex now. That's the only explanation that he didn't throw her out. She probably knew life time alimony was just days away from being unavailable and tricked him. HAHA.


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## rockon

Openminded said:


> And he tends to abandon his threads


I noticed this from the beginning. Got annoying. He would start a new thread, I'd skim it, same old same old, ignore the rest.


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## MAJDEATH

I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


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## Hope1964

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?


What difference does THIS make? Lots of people stay married who are miserable. I myself stayed married the first time far longer than I should have. Do you think that 'staying married' or not 'being divorced' is more important that actually being married to or with someone who treats you decently?


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## sokillme

GuyInColorado said:


> He must be getting mind blowing sex now. That's the only explanation that he didn't throw her out. She probably knew life time alimony was just days away from being unavailable and tricked him. HAHA.


IF it was me I would be getting the mind blowing sex and setting all my ducks in a row, once that dies down (boom). But that's just me I would have bounced after we broke up before I took her back with another mans kid. 

Major-D why don't you just join a board about your fetish, I don't mean that to be hurtful I honestly think you need to stop denying who you are. I think you would be happier if you just admit it and have a happy life.


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## sokillme

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
> I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


Married 12 years. I have said it before, I have said it to my wife, I would bolt if she cheated. I wouldn't even think twice, to stay in with someone who would abuse and betray me like that would be a blow to my honor. Staying with someone who continually abuses you is morally wrong and disrespectful to the sanctity of marriage. It make makes a mockery of it and allows people who don't value it to use such marriage as an example of why it doesn't work. "Once you get married you life ends, you become a pu55y", ever hear guys talk that way? Marriage should be a partnership, when one spouse continually takes advantage of the other this example leads people seeing this to get disillusioned. Like anything that is corrupt. You have a moral responsibility not to "normalize" abusive behavior. 

My internal happiness comes from my own character, my wife brings me joy, but not my happiness. I believe strongly that God is good and life will be good even when things are terrible and believe me I have been through terrible (that includes cheating, not my wife). I was given the gift of life, it is my responsibility not to allow someone to take advantage of it. I care about that gift too much to disrespect it like that. 

I am married to my wife because I gave myself to her, if she doesn't want that anymore then I will go somewhere else. No own is allowed to abuse me.


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## becareful2

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
> I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


What covenant spouse? Your wife and you destroyed that covenant when you both cheated. That was long ago so she has no excuse for what she just did. None. Don't make excuses for her. She's a grown woman who knew better but didn't care because she doesn't respect you. She doesn't hold marriage in high regard, otherwise she'd be trying to protect it not decimate it when another guy tempts her. 

Didn't you say she went for the gun and you hightailed it out of there? She showed you how much respect she has for you in that very moment. Believe her. 

I've never been married because I want to be selective. I recognize an honorable woman with class and integrity when I see one, but your wife doesn't fit that description. I hate divorce but some marriages are just not worth fighting for because the other spouse just isn't spouse material.


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## becareful2

sokillme said:


> Married 12 years. I have said it before, I have said it to my wife, I would bolt if she cheated. I wouldn't even think twice, to stay in with someone who would abuse and betray me like that would be a blow to my honor. My internal happiness comes from my own character, my wife brings me joy, but not my happiness. I believe strongly that God is good and life will be good even when things are terrible and believe me I have been through terrible (that includes cheating not my wife). I was not given the gift of life to allow someone to take advantage of it. I care about that gift too much to disrespect it like that.
> 
> I am married to my wife because I gave myself to her, if she doesn't want that anymore then I will go somewhere else. No one is allowed to abuse me.


^^This^^

And what did your wife say after you told her that?


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## Lostinthought61

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
> I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


For sake of argument i have been married 30 years and while my wife and i have our problems and issues, i can tell you this, i have never had to worry about my wife rubbing some man's foot with or without my knowledge. I can absolutely tell you that all of my kids are mine with 99.99% certainty....but back to Hope's point your comment as nothing to do with your actions....accept the fact your a hypocrite, and that your wife will more than likely cheat again and be done with it. I get it you want to stay married regardless of the consequences...there is nothing wrong with that if you accept it, and obviously you have, then move with your life...but don't blame us for pointing out the hypocrisy in previous posts you placed on here...and BTW i well your wife to respond as well.


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## Apexmale

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
> I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


Infidelity in marriage is very, very, very difficult to work through and overcome. Most couples, even if they love each other, refuse to attempt to do the work. They see how much work has to be done instead of how much work they've already invested. It's much easier to divorce than it is to try to make things work. 

In my experience, it is an amazing journey to see couples who are scarred by infidelity make thier marriages solid again. The amount of work each individual is required to make is immense. Not to mention the amount of transformation that has to take place. I study those couples religiously. And for those couples who loved each other but divorce was the best, easiest option... well not so interesting.


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## sokillme

becareful2 said:


> ^^This^^
> 
> And what did your wife say after you told her that?


What part, the giving myself. She actually said it to me one time before I even said it to her. It was like an oh wow moment. We both feel entirely the same way. I think that is why we have a good marriage. She was established had her own house. She married late in life because she hadn't met the right person. 31, I am 4 years younger. It was remarkable because when we talked about it we felt the same way. I know that she could be just fine on her own, in many ways better then me even. I think she knows and I have said, being her husband is my honor, I didn't marry her for anything she gives to me, though she brings so much to my life. My love for her is not contingent on what she does for me, but again I will not be abused. 

She also knows I would not stay if she cheated. I don't think she cares she just kind of rolls her eyes because she is not going to cheat. If she did though I would be alright. My first love cheated on me and I found out after I proposed. When I found out was an out of body experience, literally. If you see Dr. Strange the first time his soul leaves his body it gets punched out. That really happened to me saw my own body and everything at least that is how I remember it. Anyway I played the pick me dance for about a month until I looked at myself in the mirror and couldn't do it anymore. So I did the hardest thing I have ever had to do, I ghosted I never talked to her again though she did reach out for a while. It was like detox. During that time my mother who had a first love heart brake of her own told me something that was my mantra. "If you can get through this you will be able to get through anything". I believe that now. Nothing could ever be worse then that because my love for this woman was innocent. That is what I lost as a trade in for a stronger soul. That is really the only thing I lost, but i gained strength and wisdom. 

_I added some stuff to the quoted post to clarify by the way, bad habit I know._


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## sokillme

Apexmale said:


> Infidelity in marriage is very, very, very difficult to work through and overcome. Most couples, even if they love each other, refuse to attempt to do the work. They see how much work has to be done instead of how much work they've already invested. It's much easier to divorce than it is to try to make things work.
> 
> In my experience, it is an amazing journey to see couples who are scarred by infidelity make thier marriages solid again. The amount of work each individual is required to make is immense. Not to mention the amount of transformation that has to take place. I study those couples religiously. And for those couples who loved each other but divorce was the best, easiest option... well not so interesting.


I am convinced that it only can work if the partner who cheats has, not remorse like everyone says but real deep down shame. Shame is the only thing that changes a persons. Most people are not capable of being that introspective about their actions.


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## Openminded

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
> I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


I was married 45 years before my divorce. I could have remained married had I been willing to overlook that pesky little detail about him again cheating. No, I don't feel bad about my decision. My regret is not divorcing him 30 years earlier the first time I caught him cheating. That I definitely do feel bad about. What's that old saying about "fool me once . . ." 

I'm sure you knew when you came back that posters wouldn't be lining up to support your decision. You knew the thinking behind that when you posted your first of many threads about your marital issues. I stand by my statement that you enjoy drama. And you enjoy putting your stories on TAM. Obviously.


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## sokillme

MJ-D let me ask you one question. Why do you have no hope for something better? Have you ever thought that if you leave this woman the rest of your life might be much better an you emotionally much healthier? Do you think your worth is that low that you don't deserve someone who will treat you well. I think you are a kind good man, you raised another man's kid with a person who didn't always treat you "nice", don't you think some kind woman might want someone like you to just spend the rest of her life with. Maybe you can be the one she gives foot rubs to instead of you chasing after your wife's. 

I am not trying to be religious but this really speaks to what it is like when you find a good woman.


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## becareful2

Openminded said:


> I was married 45 years before my divorce. I could have remained married had I been willing to overlook that pesky little detail about him again cheating. No, I don't feel bad about my decision. My regret is not divorcing him 30 years earlier the first time I caught him cheating. That I definitely do feel bad about. What's that old saying about "fool me once . . ."
> 
> I'm sure you knew when you came back that posters wouldn't be lining up to support your decision. You knew the thinking behind that when you posted your first of many threads about your marital issues. I stand by my statement that you enjoy drama. And you enjoy putting your stories on TAM. Obviously.



I am sorry Openminded. Forty-five years being married to a serial cheater is just too painful to fathom.


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## Openminded

becareful2 said:


> I am sorry Openminded. Forty-five years being married to a serial cheater is just too painful to fathom.


Thanks, bc2. 

We were sexually incompatible and I own my part in that. But I should have left 15 years into the marriage and not believed him when he promised me it would never happen again and begged me not to divorce him. Live and learn.


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## TX-SC

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
> I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


I have been married almost 21 years, together 23 years. Never divorced.


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## Blondilocks

I was married 43 years when my husband died. First and only marriage for us both.


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## Personal

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
> I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


As someone who recommends you end your relationship with your wife, I can relate that I have been married twice and divorced once.

My first short lived and rather tempestuous circa 2½ year marriage, ended in divorce as a consequence of my ex-wife's infidelity (I have never felt bad about ending that marriage).

Whereas my second happy marriage, has so far lasted over 17½ years, through a 20+ year sexual relationship (with 19½ years of living together).


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## Blondilocks

MAJDEATH said:


> I have read the responses and I have to ask: how many of the posters on this thread have enjoyed a longterm marriage with their covenant spouse (i.e. not ever divorced)?
> I have noticed in casual conversation that divorced people tend to recommend D very quickly when trouble arises in a marriage. Perhaps so they don't feel so bad about their decision?


You have your nerve! You started a thread saying you should have listened to the folks here and then detailed your wife's latest transgressions. Now, that your codependency has kicked in and you're clinging to her ankles, you imply that your respondents' advice may be questionable because they may be divorced? You are actually questioning their motives? You and your wife deserve each other!


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## Openminded

^^^

Indeed.


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## Lostme

Go ahead and keep living a life where you have to sit and watch surveillance cameras and spy on your wife's every move, worry every time she leaves the house if she is cheating. 

But don't bash those of us who are more honest with you then you or your spouse is to each other.


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## becareful2

Blondilocks said:


> You have your nerve! You started a thread saying you should have listened to the folks here and then detailed your wife's latest transgressions. Now, that your codependency has kicked in and you're clinging to her ankles, you imply that your respondents' advice may be questionable because they may be divorced? You are actually questioning their motives? You and your wife deserve each other!


I can't like this post enough.

The Major might want to *invest in a drone*. I'm just sayin'.


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## Malaise

MAJDEATH said:


> I realize that this situation/dynamic is unique to us. *She was not aware that it was a problem for me, *and I was wrong in not communicating my concerns clearly to her sooner.


That's why she did it when you were at work.

And never told you.

She said this with a straight face? And you believe her?


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## Satya

Blondilocks said:


> You have your nerve! You started a thread saying you should have listened to the folks here and then detailed your wife's latest transgressions. Now, that your codependency has kicked in and you're clinging to her ankles, you imply that your respondents' advice may be questionable because they may be divorced? You are actually questioning their motives? You and your wife deserve each other!


It's could be his wife posting with his account. 
I've noticed a veritable shift in tone of his posts.

Either that or perhps she is over his shoulder, dictating.

Regardles, we are all going to be considered sh17lords now for our helpful advice.

Maj, I sincerely wish you all the best.


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## aine

Guys, I don't blame Maj nor his wife for going dark. We have all said our piece on his other threads, the same stuff is here, nothing new. 
Would it be so difficult to restrain yourselves for a few days and wait to see what Maj's wife might write, she aint gonna write now, that is for sure. So in short there is no point to this whole thread.


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## Satya

Aine, I think the thread is still helpful. 

It's true - only they can go on this journey together and decide what's best. 

I personally get a bit disappointed when the combined efforts of posters here amounts to literally thousands of dollars worth of free advice/therapy/experience... and not applied/absorbed? .... Need a better word that doesn't sound too assuming. 

I hope his wife does write here, but if not, there are other forums out there. 

But to your point, yes. They don't owe us anything.


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## zookeeper

If his wife is here, it's not to participate in open discussion. It's to monitor what he says about her and more importantly, to be able to counter any input from the chuckle patch that could possibly lead him to changing the status quo. 

Just look at how twisted this poor fellow's mind is. By his own words, he has become convinced that his wife's intentions were benign and she simply was unaware that such behavior was unacceptable. She can't have him wising up, now can she? 

For his part, he sounds like someone with very low self esteem. I doubt that he in any way enjoys this as has been suggested by others. Most likely he simply thinks he doesn't deserve any better. Posting on this board is of little value to him. He should be in intensive counseling to overcome these feelings. The escape from his situation is inside him. He needs help finding it and this ain't the place. 

I hope he finds his way.


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## MAJDEATH

And here I thought there would be such a difference between posting in the "long term success in marriage" section and the "coping with infidelity" section. It seems the tone is the same.


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## GusPolinski

MAJDEATH said:


> And here I thought there would be such a difference between posting in the "long term success in marriage" section and the "coping with infidelity" section. It seems the tone is the same.


LOL.

Not bad as far as cop outs go.

I suppose we could ask the admins to spin up a "Successfully Coping With Long Term Infidelity in Marriage" forum, though.

:lol: :rofl:

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zookeeper

MAJDEATH said:


> And here I thought there would be such a difference between posting in the "long term success in marriage" section and the "coping with infidelity" section. It seems the tone is the same.


So you were just "audience shopping" hoping to be told you're doing great? Maybe you should state upfront that you only want to hear from people who agree with you instead of writing, "Either way, I welcome all responses..."

That way people like me won't mistake you for someone who actually wants help.

Good luck.


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## Openminded

You've posted on many of the forums on TAM in the time you've been here and have gotten the same advice each time. It just isn't what you want to hear. Have you tried some of the other forums that are out there? I can't think of the names right now but they are occasionally recommended to posters who don't find what they are looking for on TAM.


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## Hope1964

MAJDEATH said:


> And here I thought there would be such a difference between posting in the "long term success in marriage" section and the "coping with infidelity" section. It seems the tone is the same.


If your definition of 'success' is to simply be married, then you qualify. If your definition is that 'success' means you're married to someone who loves, cherishes and protects you and your marriage, then you certainly do NOT.

You need to find a religious forum that advocates staying married no matter what. Then you might get some of the answers you want.


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## jorgegene

Openminded said:


> You've posted on many of the forums on TAM in the time you've been here and have gotten the same advice each time. It just isn't what you want to hear. Have you tried some of the other forums that are out there? I can't think of the names right now but they are occasionally recommended to posters who don't find what they are looking for on TAM.


methinks it's his wife that has been speaking to us these last several days.

were getting her shots.............who knows where the MAJ is..............


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## Hope Shimmers

jorgegene said:


> methinks it's his wife that has been speaking to us these last several days.
> 
> were getting her shots.............who knows where the MAJ is..............


That's sort of like calling him a troll, no?

No one knows, but on an open forum it seems like the benefit of the doubt should be given if it can't be proved otherwise. 

MAJ, deep down in your heart of hearts you know the truth. You just aren't ready to accept it yet. It is easy for us to sit here behind our screens and tell you WTF is the matter with you, why aren't you divorcing her yesterday? But you are the one walking around in your shoes and living your life. It ain't so easy when emotions are involved. In fact it's damn hard. So I can understand.

I personally believe that most of the advice you were given here is probably accurate, and I think you believe it too. But I have been in your shoes - wanting to make it work so badly that it's just too hard to let go. Until it becomes too hard to stay. You are the only person who can get to that point - who can define that point for you. You are here because you want affirmation of what you know deep down is probably true, but you're not ready to implement it yet. One day you may be, and I believe it does help to hear others (on the more objective side of things) reaffirm that. So I think you did get something out of your threads (and I read them).


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## sokillme

Hope Shimmers said:


> That's sort of like calling him a troll, no?
> 
> No one knows, but on an open forum it seems like the benefit of the doubt should be given if it can't be proved otherwise.
> 
> MAJ, deep down in your heart of hearts you know the truth. You just aren't ready to accept it yet. It is easy for us to sit here behind our screens and tell you WTF is the matter with you, why aren't you divorcing her yesterday? But you are the one walking around in your shoes and living your life. It ain't so easy when emotions are involved. In fact it's damn hard. So I can understand.
> 
> I personally believe that most of the advice you were given here is probably accurate, and I think you believe it too. But I have been in your shoes - wanting to make it work so badly that it's just too hard to let go. Until it becomes too hard to stay. You are the only person who can get to that point - who can define that point for you. You are here because you want affirmation of what you know deep down is probably true, but you're not ready to implement it yet. One day you may be, and I believe it does help to hear others (on the more objective side of things) reaffirm that. So I think you did get something out of your threads (and I read them).



The sad thing is this kind of thinking wanting to desperately make things work is like a Chinese finger trap. The more you try to hold on the worse it gets. If you just let go and move on in 6 months or so you life will change dramatically for the better. It is very hard to see that at first, but each day you are away the more you will realize.

The light at the end of the tunnel seem very small from deep inside, but once you get to the end there is a whole world out there of light happiness. You just have to keep moving forward.


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## *Deidre*

In knowing your backstory Majdeath, it's not so much about boundaries at this point, it's that your wife needs to figure out why she needs attention from nearly any man who is breathing to validate her. She doesn't sound picky...so it's not personal to you. Why you tolerate it, is your own choice at this point, but it's not about boundaries with her. It's about getting to the root cause of your wife's emptiness. If you don't get to that, there'll always be men in your marriage.  And I happen to think that she is the initiator in the flirtations, etc, not the men, just a guess.


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## sokillme

*Deidre* said:


> In knowing your backstory Majdeath, it's not so much about boundaries at this point, it's that your wife needs to figure out why she needs attention from nearly any man who is breathing to validate her. She doesn't sound picky...so it's not personal to you. Why you tolerate it, is your own choice at this point, but it's not about boundaries with her. It's about getting to the root cause of your wife's emptiness. If you don't get to that, there'll always be men in your marriage.  And I happen to think that she is the initiator in the flirtations, etc, not the men, just a guess.


I would add only she can change this and she has to want to change (not write books). Rules, and patrolling her isn't going to change her. Finally I will add from past example she is not going to change, but you know this.


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## Affaircare

@MAJDEATH, 

I'll be honest--I don't think this is really about "boundaries" because boundaries are not rules that one spouse makes to enforce on the other spouse. Boundaries are fences that you put around yourself to decide who and what you will allow access to YOU. Boundaries are about YOU controlling YOU--not you controlling your spouse or your spouse controlling you. 

So since you are not really talking about "boundaries" here but more like "Rules" to which you both agree (and even agreement can be ambiguous, because as you have seen, a spouse can agree in definition and then justify why they have to break the "agreement" or claim they didn't "understand"), let me share with you the agreement that my Dear Hubby and I have regarding friends of the opposite sex: 

*We agree to give 100% of our affection, loyalty and companionship ONLY TO OUR SPOUSE. There will be no affection given (in a romantic way) to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be not loyalty given to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be no companionship given to any other person, same or opposite sex. * 

Now before you object with something like "What about your children or relatives?" or some exclamation about being loyal to your job or church, let me say this: of course you give affection to your own children, and of course you love your siblings, parents, aunts, uncles and cousins--but that is "family" love, not romantic, intimate knowledge kind of love. Of course you are loyal to your team or company--that is not intimate loyalty. That is not what our rule is talking about! Our rule is talking about doing affectionate things with someone other than your spouse, to whom all of your intimate affection is due; it is NOT yours to give away, but theirs! Our rule is about loyalty to your spouse, your marriage, and you vows--always having your spouse's back, always standing up for them, and always considering them in all things; it is not yours to give away, but theirs! And our rule is about giving to your spouse and only to your spouse, the joy of recreation, kicking back, having fun, enjoying yourself; it is not yours to give to someone else, but theirs!

And since MAJ nothing personal, but since the dynamic of your marriage is so far from even being able to comprehend that, much less being able to enact that on a mutual level, I doubt I'll respond again...and it's not because I'm a jerk. It's because you can not and/or do not hear us.


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## jorgegene

*


Hope Shimmers said:



That's sort of like calling him a troll, no?

Click to expand...

*


Hope Shimmers said:


> No one knows, but on an open forum it seems like the benefit of the doubt should be given if it can't be proved otherwise.
> 
> MAJ, deep down in your heart of hearts you know the truth. You just aren't ready to accept it yet. It is easy for us to sit here behind our screens and tell you WTF is the matter with you, why aren't you divorcing her yesterday? But you are the one walking around in your shoes and living your life. It ain't so easy when emotions are involved. In fact it's damn hard. So I can understand.
> 
> I personally believe that most of the advice you were given here is probably accurate, and I think you believe it too. But I have been in your shoes - wanting to make it work so badly that it's just too hard to let go. Until it becomes too hard to stay. You are the only person who can get to that point - who can define that point for you. You are here because you want affirmation of what you know deep down is probably true, but you're not ready to implement it yet. One day you may be, and I believe it does help to hear others (on the more objective side of things) reaffirm that. So I think you did get something out of your threads (and I read them).


no, not at all.

he said at the beginning of this thread that his wife has joined and may be responding.

as at least one other has pointed out, suddenly, the demeanor, and abrupt, tart, cryptic responses have been completely out of character from his previous threads which were quite soul bearing, open and sincere.


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## TX-SC

I am a pro marriage type of guy. If a spouse shows true remorse after cheating, I'm all for giving R a shot. It's not easy for the BS, but if the WS is truly sorry, a genuine R can happen. The problem with Maj and his wife is that she has been secretive and deceitful after being caught. These foot rubs MAY be mostly innocent, but she purposefully has hidden them from Maj. She has gone so far as to tell the OM when he will be out of town so they can meet up. How is that conducive to R?


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## MAJDEATH

Affaircare said:


> @MAJDEATH,
> 
> I'll be honest--I don't think this is really about "boundaries" because boundaries are not rules that one spouse makes to enforce on the other spouse. Boundaries are fences that you put around yourself to decide who and what you will allow access to YOU. Boundaries are about YOU controlling YOU--not you controlling your spouse or your spouse controlling you.
> 
> So since you are not really talking about "boundaries" here but more like "Rules" to which you both agree (and even agreement can be ambiguous, because as you have seen, a spouse can agree in definition and then justify why they have to break the "agreement" or claim they didn't "understand"), let me share with you the agreement that my Dear Hubby and I have regarding friends of the opposite sex:
> 
> We agree to give 100% of our affection, loyalty and companionship ONLY TO OUR SPOUSE. There will be no affection given (in a romantic way) to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be not loyalty given to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be no companionship given to any other person, same or opposite sex.
> 
> Now before you object with something like "What about your children or relatives?" or some exclamation about being loyal to your job or church, let me say this: of course you give affection to your own children, and of course you love your siblings, parents, aunts, uncles and cousins--but that is "family" love, not romantic, intimate knowledge kind of love. Of course you are loyal to your team or company--that is not intimate loyalty. That is not what our rule is talking about! Our rule is talking about doing affectionate things with someone other than your spouse, to whom all of your intimate affection is due; it is NOT yours to give away, but theirs! *Our rule is about loyalty to your spouse, your marriage, and you vows--always having your spouse's back, always standing up for them, and always considering them in all things; it is not yours to give away, but theirs!* And our rule is about giving to your spouse and only to your spouse, the joy of recreation, kicking back, having fun, enjoying yourself; it is not yours to give to someone else, but theirs!
> 
> And since MAJ nothing personal, but since the dynamic of your marriage is so far from even being able to comprehend that, much less being able to enact that on a mutual level, I doubt I'll respond again...and it's not because I'm a jerk. It's because you can not and/or do not hear us.


That's the part that I am struggling with the most in my counseling sessions. For the longest time she had my back. We went thru an incredibly intense 3-year period (related to a workplace issue) where she was the rock who really held us together thru an incredibly difficult time. And I really believe a lessor woman would have given up and said "this is too hard, I'm out". I give her a lot of credit for sticking with me during that period, so I can't for the life of me understand why private foot rubs were so important at this point in her life?


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## MAJDEATH

There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage. 

Now before all the forum naysayers tell me this is hogwash, I must premise this by saying that I have no way to verify any of this, it is hearsay. I know she is working closely and intensely with her own IC, and this subject was most likely discussed in their sessions. If it is true, does it mean anything or is it simply her trying to dangle a olive branch toward R by indicating that she was starting to resent the OM and would have ended the "non-appropriate" part of their friendship on her own? Or is it cheater-speak nonsense?


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## Satya

Maj, giving her the benefit of the doubt for a moment, if she is the age she is and she truly thinks that a man can be her friend, exchange physical touch (footrubs) without crossing boundaries, she is very emotionally immature. 

Men don't give a [email protected] about hearing stories about other men, or offering women emotional support around other men (read: their husband's... I.e. you) when they want to bang them.

My feeling is she knows this and is going into weird "I didn't know what I was doing... Honest" damage control to keep you guessing. And it's working.


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## She'sStillGotIt

MAJDEATH said:


> There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.


What a crock of manure.

All cheaters try desperately to paint themselves in the most innocent light that they can. That's nothing *new*, nor is it in any way *unique*. She's just doing what they all do. Her ridiculous story about wanting her 'friend' to agree with her that her marriage the most important thing in her world is actually laughable. She'd already SHOWN him how 'important' her marriage is, playing footsies with this mouth breather on your couch while you weren't home.


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## Lostinthought61

Major, 

If you weren't the poster, and you were responding like the rest of us, would you believe it? Would you say those words rang with truth or falsehood?


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## snerg

MAJDEATH said:


> There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.


Oh man. Reading your posts is like watching a train that's just about to wreak. I can't stop reading no matter how cringe/trigger/rage inducing the issue at hand with you is.

Come on.Do you on any level even truly believe this?

To quote Vincent Vega "you're saying a foot massage don't mean nothing, and I'm saying it does. Now, look, I've given a million ladies a million foot massages, and they all meant something. We act like they don't, but they do, and that's what's so cool about them. *There's a sensuous thing going on where you don't talk about it, but you know it, she knows it,* Marsellus knew it, and Antoine should have better known better. I mean, that's his wife, man. He ain't gonna have no sense of humor about that ****. You know what I'm saying?"




MAJDEATH said:


> Now before all the forum naysayers tell me this is hogwash, I must premise this by saying that I have no way to verify any of this, it is hearsay. I know she is working closely and intensely with her own IC, and this subject was most likely discussed in their sessions. If it is true, does it mean anything or is it simply her trying to dangle a olive branch toward R by indicating that she was starting to resent the OM and would have ended the "non-appropriate" part of their friendship on her own? Or is it cheater-speak nonsense?


*O

M

G

STOP*

You are so desperate to save this, I don't have the correct words to describe your union with your wife, that you will turn a blind eye to everything.

You *DO* make excuses for everything.

At what point do you look at yourself in the mirror and ask

"Why do I allow her to treat me like this"

When is enough actually enough for you?


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## MJJEAN

Many years ago, I saw a family member in what looked to be a verbally and physically abusive relationship. I even offered the female half and her children a room at my house so she could get away from her abuser and get on her feet. She refused. I was perplexed.

Later, I found out that the family member wasn't being abused at all. All of the bad behavior we outsiders saw was actually their kink. The horrible public comments, the physical shoving, etc. was actually their foreplay. 

I seriously wonder if TAMers are unwittingly participating in a similar kink.

I am starting to believe that MrsMajDeath is simply a non-monogamist who enjoys catting around and that MajDeath is into the drama and rush of investigation, spying, and confrontation. I am starting to believe this is all a game they play and have been playing for around 20 years.


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## Blondilocks

"I realize that this situation/dynamic is unique to us. *She was not aware that it was a problem for me,* and I was wrong in not communicating my concerns clearly to her sooner."

Now, she states that she broached the subject with the OM and was trying to find a way to tell you that wouldn't make you upset. 

So, which is it? Which lie do you find easier to swallow? 

You have to accept the fact that she did this because she wanted to and knew full well that it would piss you off as it would piss off any other person on the planet. She used your home to 'entertain' another man. If this was all so innocent, why didn't they ever enjoy the rubs at his place in front of his wife?

An 'olive branch'? Seriously? Even if she did have that little convo, it proves she knew it was wrong and did it anyway.

Look, you're trying to make sense of something that makes no sense. You have a remorseless wife who is trying to save her skin. She'll say anything in hope of finding the one thing that will make you stop giving her grief.


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## TX-SC

MAJDEATH said:


> There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.
> 
> Now before all the forum naysayers tell me this is hogwash, I must premise this by saying that I have no way to verify any of this, it is hearsay. I know she is working closely and intensely with her own IC, and this subject was most likely discussed in their sessions. If it is true, does it mean anything or is it simply her trying to dangle a olive branch toward R by indicating that she was starting to resent the OM and would have ended the "non-appropriate" part of their friendship on her own? Or is it cheater-speak nonsense?


Of course she was about to end it. ALL cheaters were about to end it when they got caught! It's just a strange force of nature that cheaters always get caught right when they were about to end it. 

Okay, let's say she WAS about to end it. Can you not see that this was a form of affair? Even after you were supposed to be reconciling with her, she has a secret relationship with another man. She hid it, admitted she knew you would be upset, and only came clean when you confronted her about it. 

Maj, seriously man, why? Why are you so dependent on this person? What hold does she have on you?


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## Hope1964

Continuing to point out the VERY VERY OBVIOUS here is pointless. Maj, I give up.


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## Openminded

MJJEAN said:


> I am starting to believe that MrsMajDeath is simply a non-monogamist who enjoys catting around and that MajDeath is into the drama and rush of investigation, spying, and confrontation. I am starting to believe this is all a game they play and have been playing for around 20 years.


I agree. I've thought for awhile now it's a game.


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## rockon

Hope1964 said:


> Continuing to point out the VERY VERY OBVIOUS here is pointless. Maj, I give up.


Ditto, I'm out.


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## thenub

MAJDEATH said:


> And here I thought there would be such a difference between posting in the "long term success in marriage" section and the "coping with infidelity" section. It seems the tone is the same.




I don't see any reasoning as to why you posted in this section. Your marriage is only a success for your wife. 

I've been with my wife for 30+ years married for over 15. I know she would never invite another man into our house while I'm not home for, ahem, "foot rubs." Why? Mutual respect for each other and the sanctity of marriage if we see a problem in our relationship we look within the relationship to fix it. We don't to go elsewhere looking for ego kibbles. We still act and make out like teenagers when we are alone together. 

We have, like others here stated that if either of us were to cheat, it would be game over for us, plain and simple. 

The only trust I would see in your wife is, I trust she will cheat again and again and again because you tolerate it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blondilocks

It seems the Reconciliation forum would have been a better fit for this thread. You don't have a long-term successful marriage if you're in the midst of yet another fiasco.


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## Hope1964

Blondilocks said:


> It seems the Reconciliation forum would have been a better fit for this thread. You don't have a long-term successful marriage if you're in the midst of yet another fiasco.


I beg to differ. Reconciliation isn't what he's in. Reconciliation implies two partners both doing their best to have a happy life together. There's a HUGE difference between simply 'staying married' after cheating, and 'reconciliation'.


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## bandit.45

I'm outta here too. This is stupid.


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## alexm

MAJDEATH said:


> There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.
> 
> Now before all the forum naysayers tell me this is hogwash, I must premise this by saying that I have no way to verify any of this, it is hearsay. I know she is working closely and intensely with her own IC, and this subject was most likely discussed in their sessions. If it is true, does it mean anything or is it simply her trying to dangle a olive branch toward R by indicating that she was starting to resent the OM and would have ended the "non-appropriate" part of their friendship on her own? Or is it cheater-speak nonsense?


I don't know why I'm bothering, but here goes.

Your wife was beside you during a 3 year period of strife. Good for her. That's what spouses do.

Often, during times like these, the spouse who is being the 'rock' is not having their own needs met, because it's all about the spouse who needs the support during that time.

Enter the OM.

He was providing her with her needs for attention, intimacy, physical contact, etc., which I assume she didn't feel like she was getting during this period.

During this time, she knew it was wrong, but not WRONG. It felt good, it felt right, it wasn't sexual (I'll play along and say it didn't get any further than private foot rubs...)

She felt _some_ guilt about it, hence her saying to OM that she wanted to find a way to tell you about their footsy encounters. If she is to be believed, his response was 'whatever'. This implies his interest in her was likely more than foot rubs, and he realized at that moment that he was not likely to stick his penis in her. He was playing the long game, waiting for _her_ to make the first sexual move.

When she realized this (which I have no doubt she did), she came clean. Enter the _real_ guilt. Which brings excuses, lies, minimizing, deflecting and gas lighting.

So what you're left with is knowledge that the person you share your life with will get her needs met elsewhere when necessary. That she isn't, and wasn't, willing to sacrifice her needs for yours when you required it. This is a basic tenet of marriage. It sucks when it happens, and one partner has to sacrifice for the other, but it does happen (illness, job loss, depression, etc).

The mark of a truly good marital partner is when they step up to that plate and forsake themselves for the time required.

Good luck, Maj.


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## TX-SC

bandit.45 said:


> I'm outta here too. This is stupid.


Yeah, same here.


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## *Deidre*

MJJEAN said:


> Many years ago, I saw a family member in what looked to be a verbally and physically abusive relationship. I even offered the female half and her children a room at my house so she could get away from her abuser and get on her feet. She refused. I was perplexed.
> 
> Later, I found out that the family member wasn't being abused at all. All of the bad behavior we outsiders saw was actually their kink. The horrible public comments, the physical shoving, etc. was actually their foreplay.
> 
> I seriously wonder if TAMers are unwittingly participating in a similar kink.
> 
> I am starting to believe that MrsMajDeath is simply a non-monogamist who enjoys catting around and that MajDeath is into the drama and rush of investigation, spying, and confrontation. I am starting to believe this is all a game they play and have been playing for around 20 years.


Wow, I wouldn't have thought of this, but it makes so much sense.  Good insight.


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## Manchester

If you don't agree with a person, if you don't want to contribute to their story, then just DONT. To post on the thread just to say "I'm not going to post on this thread anymore" is really freaking lame. 

FWIW, I don't think this is a game at all. 

I do think that MAJDEATH's wife is the author of some of the out of character posts and she's doing what she cao repair the damage and win back MAJDEATH's trust or more aptly to reduce or eliminate his suspicions but so what. He's not going anywhere. He might have a revenge affair here or there to "get even" but he'll stay in this dysfunctional abusive deceptive situation until the end of time unless his wife leaves him for one of her many affair partners.

He's not playing some sort of twisted game, the poor guy is not the brightest bulb in the shed and he's in complete denial except for once in a while when it's so damn blatent he can't ignore it so he posts his suspicions here, has a brief period where he plans to take action but in the end he falls right back in line just like his wife expects him to. 

Because for him, the alternative is unfathomable. He cannot and will not face the reality of the situation because there is too much fear. It sounds incredible but there are lots of people who live their lives this way because it's all they can handle.


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## GusPolinski

MAJDEATH said:


> There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.
> 
> Now before all the forum naysayers tell me this is hogwash, I must premise this by saying that I have no way to verify any of this, it is hearsay. I know she is working closely and intensely with her own IC, and this subject was most likely discussed in their sessions. If it is true, does it mean anything or is it simply her trying to dangle a olive branch toward R by indicating that she was starting to resent the OM and would have ended the "non-appropriate" part of their friendship on her own? Or is it cheater-speak nonsense?


LOL.

Your WW has you so completely snowed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH

Oh I definitely think there was some element of leading him on, the question is whether he figured it out or not. According to OMW, he has lots of female friends with his job in media, but doesn't confuse spending time with them as "personal interest". I'll never know because he won't ever be stepping on my property again, to discuss work or anything else.


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