# Spousal support after retirement



## cobos (Dec 16, 2019)

Married 36 yrs. Wife had something with the soccer coach. Also my youngest daughter was texting him over 6000 times a month and emailing him. I found the emails and reported to head coaching staff. Coach was fired. Two Daughter's and son won't speak to me this was 2014. I am ordered to pay spousal support she only worked the first 9 yrs of marriage. Now I'm faced with paying her support when I retire at 65.
Really bringing me down. From Ohio.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don’t know what to say other than I’m feeling your pain. The only people that might help would be attorneys. The sad fact is that women are very often rewarded for cheating now. I’m sorrry.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Not sure why you included all that stuff about the soccer coach and your kids. It's irrelevant to your question and a waste of time for those looking to help.

Modifying support post retirement largely depends on the Orders or Settlement Agreement and the divorce laws of your state.

Generally retirement is considered to be "anticipated" and nothing changes, however that much being said, if there's a significant drop in your income post retirement you could possibly make the case for "unexpected hardship" or "significant change in circumstances".

You need to research case law in your state and/or consult with an attorney about modifying your spousal support post retirement.

I did a quick search on "Post retirement spousal maintenance retirement and spousal support in Ohio". I got this link- which seems to address your issue but is also somewhat vague and says pretty much what I wrote above. I suggest you do more research using similar search terms.






Can Spousal Support be modified in Ohio? | Joesph & Joesph


Spousal support modification change of circumstance: Can Spousal Support be modified? What about a Change in Circumstance? What about Retirement?




josephandjoseph.com


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

How old are your kids?


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Benbutton said:


> How old are your kids?


Irrelevant.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Irrelevant in Ohio. This is the second post in about a week that's kind of similar about Ohio so I'm thinking they must have a real problem there that they modified their laws to reflect. They are definitely different than most states.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Trident said:


> Not sure why you included all that stuff about the soccer coach and your kids. It's irrelevant to your question and a waste of time for those looking to help.
> 
> Modifying support post retirement largely depends on the Orders or Settlement Agreement and the divorce laws of your state.
> 
> ...


@cobos 
Thanks for sharing a bit. I find that helpful forming a well rounded picture with some background context. 

Talking to a lawyer is the best bet. It has to suck a bit. Hang in there.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Trident said:


> Irrelevant.
> [/QUOTE
> Disregard, was thinking child support.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

You can’t use the affair against her alimony claim?


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

SCDad01 said:


> You can’t use the affair against her alimony claim?


A quick search says "probably not" however I also found this. _" When deciding whether to award alimony, courts in Ohio may consider marital misconduct, including adultery by either spouse, as part of "any other factor the court finds to be fair and relevant" _

Adultery is grounds for divorce in Ohio but does not typically have any financial consequences unless you can find a sympathetic judge.

Weird, right?


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

SCDad01 said:


> You can’t use the affair against her alimony claim?


Generally no. How are assets being divided?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

cobos said:


> Married 36 yrs.
> 
> ,,,,,,Wife had something with the soccer coach. Also my youngest daughter was texting him over 6000 times a month and emailing him. *I found the emails and reported to head coaching staff. Coach was fired. Two Daughter's and son won't speak to me this was 2014.* I am ordered to *pay spousal support she only worked the first 9 yrs of marriage*. Now I'm faced with paying her support when I retire at 65.
> Really bringing me down. From Ohio.


Look you married her. You felt that what was going on was intolerable and got the coach fired. Then you got divorced. You obviously either initiated the divorce or you didn't fight for reconciliation. The divorce financial settlement was handled by a court and ultimately you have to agree to it or promise to abide by the settlement.

None of this should come as a surprise to you. Yes, it is a bummer. Have you considered talking to an attorney. The reason I raise that issue is if she only worked a few years and was married to you for 36 years, she will be coming up on being able to claim "spouse social security." That means she will be eligible for an increase "income" and that means all things being equal, you should be entitled to a reduction in your spouse support. However, depending on your retirement savings, and social security earnings, you could be just opening pandora's box of financial adjustments could just make you poorer if you want a judicial adjustment in spouse support.

Good luck.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Young at Heart said:


> Then you got divorced.
> 
> you could be just opening pandora's box of financial adjustments could just make you poorer if you want a judicial adjustment in spouse support..


I'm not seeing where he's divorced.

As to your second point, if they ARE divorced, then yes, going back to court for an adjustment can have unexpected negative consequences. You never know what a court will do.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Wife didn't work for decades, and you let this happen. Now she's old and coming up on retirement age. Of course you are going to have to pay support during retirement. 

The way to avoid this is to not have a SAHW for multiple decades.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Livvie said:


> The way to avoid this is to not have a SAHW for multiple decades.


I often post on a mens divorce forum. Since the guys are usually the breadwinners and mom is the stay at home parent- we see a lot of this. The new guy comes on all mad at "the system" because he's on the hook for support. What these guys fail to realize is they are the ones who established this pattern long ago. The courts are simply enforcing the status-quo established by the parties.

Note- it's not always the guy who pays the support but that's the case much more often than not.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

cobos said:


> Married 36 yrs. Wife had something with the soccer coach. Also my youngest daughter was texting him over 6000 times a month and emailing him. I found the emails and reported to head coaching staff. Coach was fired. Two Daughter's and son won't speak to me this was 2014. I am ordered to pay spousal support she only worked the first 9 yrs of marriage. Now I'm faced with paying her support when I retire at 65.
> Really bringing me down. From Ohio.


This s**t pisses me off. Wife a cheating huss, your kids won't speak to you even though she is the a**hole here, if coach was fired it's because he was being highly unethical.

If this happened to me, I'd have to disown my kids and if they didn't want to speak to me, fine. It would suck, I'd be hurt. But I'm not going to have anything to do with one of my kids if they sided with their cheating mother. 

And on top of that you have to pay spousal support. What a load of crap. Here is the thing, your attorney should know this. Once retired, then she can also be considered retired. She'll get 1/2 the value of your Social Security, 1/2 of any retirement account you have, and you should both go your separate ways. Unless you are swimming in wealth, there is no reason you should be paying spousal support after retirement. If you have an attorney, I'd get a new one because that doesn't sound right.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Wife didn't work for decades, and you let this happen. Now she's old and coming up on retirement age. Of course you are going to have to pay support during retirement.
> 
> The way to avoid this is to not have a SAHW for multiple decades.


Why? A good attorney would make it known that what should happen is the retirement accounts are split down the middle, she will get 1/2 the value of his Social Security...so to make up the difference, she could get more from the retirement accounts. Boom, then they are on equal footing.

But support after they are both of retirement age? Absurd. SAHW or not.

He needs a new attorney.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Trident said:


> I often post on a mens divorce forum. Since the guys are usually the breadwinners and mom is the stay at home parent- we see a lot of this. The new guy comes on all mad at "the system" because he's on the hook for support. What these guys fail to realize is they are the ones who established this pattern long ago. The courts are simply enforcing the status-quo established by the parties.


1, there is a difference between a SAHW that was encouraged to stay home as opposed to staying at home even though the husband preferred she worked.

2, Even if that were the case then once there is a retirement, unless the x-husband is a filthy rich celeb or something, that is when support should end. Why? Because they would both be considered retired and the splitting of any retirement accounts give them both equal income in retirement, minus the slight difference in Social Security, which the difference can be negotiated out of retirement accounts.

@cobos, what happened with the divorce? Was there a retirement account split? Do you have an attorney or did you just go in court without one? If you do, your attorney sucks. Support before retirement is one thing, but after retirement, then it should be left up to what you, or both of you, saved for retirement since that would be your income. If you split retirement accounts, then you both have equal income in retirement minus a slight difference in SS. So to pay support after retirement would mean she now has greater income than you in retirement. That's ridiculous. Talk to your attorney about it. If he/she gives you a nothing they can do answer, get a consult with a new attorney with what I just said here.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

SongoftheSouth said:


> Generally no. How are assets being divided?


Generally, you are correct. Depends on the judge. With regards to marital assets, infidelity will not come into play. Each spouse is entitled to 1/2 the marital assets.

As far as alimony, a judge can make a moral judgement that she is entitled to nothing based on how she conducted herself in the marriage. In my case that wasn't brought up. But my X went for spousal support. My attorney let them know that it was her idea to be a SAHM, that I preferred she worked, and she has means to support herself. In @cobos case this is retirement. The means of support in retirement for both would be the division of any retirement accounts, and possibly making up the difference, one way or the other, in the lesser amount she'll get out of Social Security.

But spousal support in retirement? No, again, not unless he is some filthy rich miser or something....or unless she is not yet of retirement age. But once she is of retirement age, any spousal support should stop.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

drencrom said:


> But once she is of retirement age, any spousal support should stop.


Don't confuse what you want to be true with what is actually true.

They are not the same thing.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Trident said:


> Don't confuse what you want to be true with what is actually true.
> 
> They are not the same thing.


I already laid out why it is the case. When still not at retirement age, there needs to be an income. And if she doesn't work or is underemployed, hence the reason for spousal support.

In retirement, Social Security and the splitting of retirement accounts IS the income for both at that point provided they are both of retirement age.

And what is actually true will depend on attorneys and the court. And a good attorney should be able to easily make the case that once both are of retirement age and retirement savings will be the income, then the splitting of such accounts suffices.

Example: They both are considered retirement age and they split all retirement accounts down the middle. She'll get a smaller amount of SS, but the miniscule amount can be made up by her receiving a little extra from the life savings. Now they basically are on even footing with retirement income. Why at that point should he pay her more? It is equal at that point. Any good attorney would make this case.

And in any case, even if he will be forced to pay it in retirement even if she is also retirement age, which is a huge load of s***, it goes by income. And in retirement the case can be made that income from retirement accounts should be much less than when he was working. And if no retirement accounts, then there is only SS.

Maybe he'll get lucky and his huss of a wife will marry someone poor schlub.

And I didn't say spousal support WILL stop once both are at retirement age. I said it SHOULD stop. He needs a good attorney to make that case for him. Sounds as if he doesn't have one and just threw himself on the mercy of a liberal judge.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Trident said:


> I'm not seeing where he's divorced.
> 
> As to your second point, if they ARE divorced, then yes, going back to court for an adjustment can have unexpected negative consequences. You never know what a court will do.


Your right he did not say when he was divorced, *but he did say...........*



cobos said:


> *I am ordered to pay spousal support *she only worked the first 9 yrs of marriage. *Now I'm faced with paying her support when I retire at 65.*
> Really bringing me down. From Ohio.


So someone (probably a court) has ordered him to pay her spousal support.

Now what is the *definition of spousal support?*



> Spousal support refers to the obligation of a person to provide financial support to his or her spouse *after separation or **divorce*. *The purpose of spousal support, also referred to as “alimony,” is to reduce the unfair financial effects of divorce on a lower-wage-earning spouse, and to help ensure each spouse is able to maintain the same standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.* Spousal support laws vary by jurisdiction.


Again, you could be correct that they have been legally separated and a court has issued a spousal support ordering him to pay her a certain amount each month.

If they are not divorced, I bet there is a heck of a story as to why. It would just make more sense if they were divorced.


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## cobos (Dec 16, 2019)

I was venting when wrote information about my kids wrong place I get it. The three kids are all over 30 one got married and had a kid I've never seen. Yes I have a lawyer same one from 2017. Yes Divorced since 2018 split retirement and marital assets down the middle. Been paying support since 2017. She worked 9 years before having kids as a book keeper, payroll and tax prep. I BEGGED her to go back to work which was a sore spot in the marriage she would not work. I did not encourage her to stay at home what so ever and would have split the chores if she worked. She did not clean the house always "too busy". I was ashamed to let anyone in the house due to it being dirty. No I'm not "rich" by any means, middle class. The agreed entry states it is modifiable, which means when I retire I will go to court and be at the mercy of the Ohio court system with out being misogynistic Ohio favors SAHM. Did a vocation assessment which found out she could work she also admitted she could work.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Again, under social security, a divorces spouse who was married for over 10 years can claim social security benefits based on her divorced husband's earnings record without it impacting the money he receives from Social Security, if she has not remarried.

SSA divorced spouse benefits

If the two of you are still speaking (or you can have an attorney do it for you) there may be some compromise room. For example, if she has not remarried and is close to your age, you may be able to increase her benefits (when she files for divorced spouse benefits) by delaying the age at which you start claiming you Social Security benefits. If you have the cash or ability to work until age 70, you can dramatically increase your monthly SSA income. Doing so will increase her SSA divorced spouse income. The idea is to figure out a "win-win" via SSA income, as her taking divorced spouse benefits has absolutely no impact on what you get from Social Security. Again, when you take SSA benefits can dramatically impact how much you get from SSA *and it will impact what she will get from divorced spouse benefits*.

You might want your attorney to brief you on how to optimize things or options to discuss in a court allowed agreement modification.

Good luck.


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## cobos (Dec 16, 2019)

Thank you for the replies and advice.
Cobos


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