# Is my situation salvageable?



## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

As a last resort, I thought I would post here on TAM and see what thoughts others had. I have previously posted on TAM about a few situations. As with anything, its always best to start at the beginning. There are so many things to weave together, some might be out of order, but I’ll try to make it flow as best I can. 

Basic family history: 
We have been married 21 years. We have three children, the oldest two are from my wife’s first marriage. Her first husband passed away when the kids were very young. We met two years after that, and have one daughter of our own. Shortly after marrying, we decided to open our own business, which was funded from a mortgage on the house she owned outright and some money from the life insurance settlement she got. Business has been successful, and my wife was able to be a stay at home mom and raise the children. The business never involved travel, so I was home every night. 


We were in a small town for ten years, and the schools were not the best, so we put the children in a Christian school (K-8) in the next town. Overall it was a good education, except we pulled our middle daughter out of that school in the sixth grade because a male teacher was not nice to her. We did decide to relocate both business and house because the jobs for teenagers and education for high school were not good in that area, so we relocated to an area about an hour away where the schools were good and much better jobs were available for the children when they got old enough to want a part time job. We sold the first business and started a second one when we relocated. My wife was able to come and go from the business as she wanted. A major issue came to light in 2008. It turns out that our middle daughter was raped by her sixth grade teacher while in the Christian school. A very long story but it played out like this: State police did a very good investigation, and came to the conclusion that the sex abuse was widespread and happened to both boys and girls. The county prosecutor refused to let the State Police interview the teacher and took the investigating trooper off the case and put another on to close it down. Over a period of three years, we have gone to the State Attorney General and got nowhere, the local Federal prosecutor, the FBI child protection unit and a civil rights attorney and the local TV investigator. The TV investigator obtained the police report, and all the names except my daughter was whited out. They all basically said, sorry, nothing we can do. That was a very bitter pill to swallow. Of course my wife blamed me because our business kept us in that small town, and it was basically my fault because we were “forced” to use the Christian school if we wanted our kids to get good schooling. 


In 2011, my wife accused an employee (her niece) of doing something malicious. That situation evolved like this: my wife asked if we could temporarily hire sis in law to work at the office to pay off her bill. Keep in mind this is a medical office and requires a great deal of knowledge. Not really excited about it, I reluctantly agreed because didn’t want to be difficult about it. So my wife puts sis in law on the phones and computers from the start. Shortly after that, our niece, alerts me to a problem with the computer program. There was missing data in one record she found. So, not knowing if this is the one incidence of missing data, or if this is the tip of the iceberg, I called my wife to express my concerns. And I was concerned, and I am sure it came across in my voice and tone. I explained what happened, and she said “We didn’t do it” I said I know no one did it on purpose, and I was sure it was a error of some type and that it had never happened before. The only thing new was sis in law was on the computer. So until I figured out what went wrong, I thought it best if sis in law was not there. So a few days later, my wife says to me “I know what happened with the computer” I reply “What?” She says “ K____, (the niece) deliberately deleted those records to make sis in law and me look bad” I said that she has been a loyal employee for years, and she is your first husbands family, and why would you accuse her of that with out proof? After that, the accusations were that I had manipulated the computer data. After that, both niece and I were accused of doing it. I know what I do and I know what I don’t do, and this would have never entered my mind to even think of doing. After 9 months, my wife decided that she no longer wanted to work in our business and took employment in her previous job. However she kept at me about her niece. So I tried to replicate the computer error, and came to the conclusion that it was possible that the niece did it, but also very possible it was an error of some type. 


My wife was transformed and the whole marriage took a turn for the wonderful. Doing things together, actually having a sexual relationship, actually talking in deep ways. We still refer to that month as “that May.” My wife was waiting for me to fire her niece. She asked me about a month later, and I said, that while it was possible that the niece did it, that the computer snafu could have been done by anyone. And that is when things went bad, real fast. We have been there ever since. 

Physical abuse toward me started about a month after that and lasted until last august. Basically there wasn’t a time in three years when I didn’t have bruises on me. During this time, I would come to work, and my staff would see the scratches and bruises and ask about sometimes. I would state what happened. They would ask if I was ok. So the long and short of it was that my coworkers knew what was happening at the house. Things really deteriorated and we sold our house last august. There was not enough good will to look for a house together, so since then I have been living with my dad, and she has been living in an apartment with our 27 year old son. 


Since selling our house last august, I filed for divorce last September. My wife went on a vacation with me this past January, I invited her to try to reconcile things. While there, she apologized and said she was having a breakdown during that period and didn’t know it. That if she would have known it, she would have gotten help. I said I did not realize she was having a breakdown, that I thought all the anger and rage was directed at me because I refused to fire someone I thought was innocent, and had I recognized it, I would have gotten her help. So at the end of the trip, I thought we had some healing. In march we took another weekend trip and thought again, there was some healing. 


However, since then, every time we get together for dinner, the conversation becomes about everything I have ever done wrong, especially talk to my staff about what was going on at home. And looking back, I could have used better discretion, but in the midst of being beat on several times weekly, and being raged on until wee hours of the morning, I think I was suffering from severe sleep deprivation and really was only trying to survive mentally. I didn’t turn to alcohol to cope or other destructive things. I chose to get involved in constructive things instead. In a last ditch effort to do something, I dropped the divorce case because they would not reschedule court dates, and I ordered Mort Fertel’s program, which I think is the best program I have seen. It focuses on fixing you, not the other person. 


My wife and I were supposed to do it together, and I see my mistakes, or at least some of them and am working on them. However, my wife still only insists on blaming, criticizing and condemning me for what transpired over three years and my staff getting wind of it. She said I should have just kept my mouth quiet and just dealt with it. I have permanent scars on my arms as a reminder. The Marriage Fitness program with Mort is over now, and there is no change. I tried to institute a date night, after a few times it became a “This is whats wrong with you and why did you do this night.” Over the past months and years, I get barrages of texts, sometimes 70 or more at a time, telling me what’s wrong with me. I used to engage or try to respond to her concerns. I get nowhere. 

My wife is all about emotions, she acts how she feels. I have never been talked to the way she talks to me. She is very verbally abusive and has been for years. Name calling, raging, contempt, accusations, withholding affection and sex (we had sex about every 6 or 8 months for years. Whenever I asked for sex she would respond with contempt to “conrol myself.” Routinely told I was disgusting and repulsive. During the past three years she would ask me to leave on holidays so her family could come over and the family could have a nice holiday. After doing some research I started to wonder if my wife had high functioning borderline personality disorder or some type of bi polar disorder. She was very angry I would even think this and totally disregards that anything might be wrong. 


Sometime she can be very nice, and others times, for no reason, really start raging. So I am in place where I need to want to move out of my dads house and get a house of my own. I can’t see it happening together with my wife. It will fall back into the same destructive pattern. The money from the house is sitting in escrow. We are going nowhere. I want to move forward, and the only way I think I can do that is to file for divorce again, and go thru with it, and have hopes that my wife might come to some sort of ephiphany. My hope is that my wife would see her part in all this and see how her actions impacted me and my actions. I do see how some of my actions impacted her, and am correcting those behaviors. The other thing I see is my wife interprets things very differently. For example, my dad comes over for Christmas and asks my son where he is working. That simple inquiry by a grandfather becomes something very different. Think of the most angry, hateful way a person could ask “Do you have a job yet?” and that is the way it was interpreted. My dad isnt’ soft spoken, he is a Korean war vet, and a ex marine. He speaks firmly. I got raged on for 8 or 9 months regarding that, and my father was not welcome in our house again. There are many, many other examples. 

My wife is a wonderful person in many ways, but I can’t live the rest of my life the way I have lived the past 20 years. I am 56, she is 48. No one is having an affair.

Any input or advice would be appreciated. Is this salvageable or am I wasting my time? Thoughts or opinions or questions? A womans perspective would be appreciated. I will gladly respond to questions.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Personally, I think you should file for divorce and never look back. This woman PHYSICALLY ABUSED YOU. Instead of realizing how horrible that was and making every effort to never do it again, she raged on you again for confiding in people at your workplace. She blames you for every single thing that's wrong in your marriage and holds grudges.

Don't expect her to come to an epiphany either, if you file. From your description, she seems to be the sort of person who will never admit they are wrong, to anyone else, or to themselves.

Also a suggestion: break your post up into smaller paragraphs for ease of readibility. That was a huge wall of text I nearly didn't bother trying to force my way through.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

I agree run and heal!! You probably have 20 good years left!


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## LisaKane (Jun 26, 2015)

I would divorce alone on the terrible mental, verbal and physical abuse (so sorry that happened to you) and the withholding of sexual relations. There is nothing to do because the issues do not lie with you. You, as a mature man, must know that this is over. You must know that being with this woman is playing martyr because you are sacrificing your happiness for her drama filled rants and tantrums. I think you should run far away, cut all contact except concerning your children and find a sane woman who is passionate, warm and loving. We exist and your wife is definitely not in our club.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Paragraphs have been broken up... thanks for the suggestion Hopeful cynic. And yes, I get the blame for everything and everything is always held over my head. And, I am afraid to say, I have come to the same conclusion that she will never own her behavior.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

Not only are you wasting your time but you are seriously hurting yourself. Your wife is a classic abuser. No need to look into diagnoses, just get the h*ll away from her. An abusive wife with a deceased former husband, life insurance settlement money and now abusing her current husband. Has she ever threatened you that she would kill you or want your death? If she has DON'T take it as just something said in anger. Abusers who threaten to kill or bring about the death of their spouse are much more likely to actually do it. I would be suspicious of how her former husband died. Abusive wives have killed husbands before without being caught. Sometimes no one thinks of it until the next husband turns up dead and life insurance money is paid out. (yes people are that stupid and greedy) 

You need to look at your own self-esteem and ask yourself why you are willing to live with someone who severely physically abused you and continues to emotionally abuse you. Emotional abuse is no joke. Stop reading marriage self-help books because they are NOT written for people being abused by their spouse. Changing yourself doesn't work with an abusive spouse because the abuse is not your fault nor caused by you in any way. 

For the love of G-d leave her and report her to police. Even if it's too late to do anything for the physical abuse, you can make the report so that they have a record of your wife's abusive personality. Then maybe if you do show up missing, people will correctly look into her this time. It's important to make the police aware of such abusive spouses because they are the ones at most risk of causing violence and need to be on the police's radar.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

1. Wife's first husband drowned.

2. My self esteem... agreed. I thought for some warped reason that I had to stay because there were children and it was my responsibility. I kept trying to explain away her behavior by looking at my actions that caused her to act a certain way, because I have been conditioned over 20 years to think its all my fault. My head is in a better place now, and I will never allow anyone to treat me or talk to me like that ever again. 

3. The police... good question... I have friend who is a deputy and I asked him how they handle domestic abuse cases. He said they send two officers, and interview the parties separately. Then, based on that, they determine who they believe is the aggressor, and arrest that person. So I asked him, "So, its possible that even though I called and reported it, that its possible that the police might view me as the aggressor after talking with my wife?" And he said, yes, it is possible you could get arrested. And I chose not to call because I didn't want to take the chance to be arrested and have my name in the paper for domestic violence. Like I said, I have a medical type business with many clients in town, and the last thing I wanted was for the paper to say "Dr So and So arrested for domestic violence" Bad thinking in retrospect.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Buy a voice activated recorder and carry it with you at all times. If something happens with your wife, you will have proof. It is not admissible in court in most states, but the police will listen to it and they won't haul you away. 
It is very important to call the police on domestic violence, otherwise you have no proof and it's her word against yours. Most of the time, they are likely to believe the woman, unless there is some outside verification, like a recording.
When you use the recorder, make sure the volume is turned all the way down. Some here have suggested purchasing a cheap pair of earbuds and cutting off the buds. That will direct all the sound into the wires, so there is no possible way of her hearing it go off or the beep to be heard.
There is a particular type that is usually recommended here. I think this is the one: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BOXNSRY?refRID=1XEEXFBJJXFR9HW74J07&ref_=pd_bia_yo_t_1


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

You need to get out of this relationship....like yesterday my friend. This is a "no brainer"...just sayin.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

He drowned? I hope she didn't cause that, but that certainly is a preferred method for killing a spouse and getting the life insurance payout (it has to be an accidental death). I'm not saying she was capable of it, but its not beyond the scope of an abusive person. Maybe everything was his fault too. You know her better, it just scares me. 

Usually the police arrest the person with physical injuries, did you tell your friend you have scars? If she managed to get injured while attacking you its possible they would believe her, but cops are pretty good at telling who is the liar. They are trained in that and they have their personal experience on the job. Even if you can't get her arrested, at least tell other people about the abuse in detail. Make a journal of everything she has done in 20 years and keep it somewhere safe. Ask your deputy friend if there is a way for you to just file a report on her that she is abusive and you are concerned for public safety but don't want to press charges.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

redwing_10 said:


> I started to wonder if my wife had high functioning borderline personality disorder or some type of bi polar disorder.


Redwing, welcome back to the TAM forum! As I tried to explain in your "Thinking of Divorce" thread nearly three years ago (my *10/15/12 post*), the behaviors you were describing then -- like those you're describing now -- are classic warning signs for BPD. These behaviors include the verbal/physical abuse, temper tantrums, controlling behavior, black-white thinking, false self image of always being "The Victim," inability to trust you, and lack of impulse control. Significantly, you are now describing the same red flags you had described in that much earlier thread.



> Physical abuse toward me started about a month after that and lasted until last august. Basically there wasn’t a time in three years when I didn’t have bruises on me.


As I discussed with you in my 2012 post, the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. I noted in that post that one of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. Although I did not mention it to you then, I have since found a _*2008 study*_ and a _*2012 study*_ that also find a strong association between violence and BPD. 



> My wife is all about emotions, she acts how she feels.


If she has strong BPD traits, this behavior is to be expected. Because a BPDer never learned the skill of regulating her own emotions, she will frequently experience feelings so intense that she will be convinced they MUST be true. To a BPDer, then, intense feelings constitute self evident "facts" that you cannot dispel with logic or evidence to the contrary.



> She is very verbally abusive and has been for years. Name calling, raging, contempt, accusations, withholding affection and sex (we had sex about every 6 or 8 months for years).


Yes, those behaviors are warning signs for BPD. 



> I have hopes that my wife might come to some sort of epiphany.... that my wife would see her part in all this and see how her actions impacted me and my actions.


If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), I would be surprised if the chances of her doing that are as large as 1%. BPD is ego-syntonic, i.e., the thought distortions are invisible to the BPDer because she's been thinking in that manner since early childhood. It therefore is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have sufficient self awareness and ego strength to stay in a therapy program long enough to make a real difference.



> My wife interprets things very differently. For example, my dad comes over for Christmas and asks my son where he is working. That simple inquiry by a grandfather becomes something very different.


There is a reason BPD is called a "thought disorder." As I said above, the BPDer's inability to regulate her own emotions results in such intense feelings that her perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations is distorted. Of course, everybody on the planet experiences these thought distortions every time we get very angry or very infatuated with someone. And, when that happens, our judgment goes out the window because it is distorted by the intense feelings. 

BPDers, then, differ from the rest of us only in degree. They experience these distortions far more frequently and more intensely due to their inability to regulate their emotions. Simply stated, a high functioning BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old.



> I can’t live the rest of my life the way I have lived the past 20 years. I am 56, she is 48.


I understand all too well. I divorced my BPDer exW when I was 62. During one of her rages, she had called the police and had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. Because it was done early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for nearly 3 full days before I could go before a judge in arraignment. By then, my exW had obtained a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months -- the time it takes to get a D here in this State.



> Any input or advice would be appreciated. Is this salvageable or am I wasting my time?


If you are still reluctant to divorce your abusive W, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. It is important to see YOUR OWN psychologist -- one who has not seen or treated your W -- because he will be ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not hers. 

I also would suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply. I caution that BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as strong verbal abuse, physical abuse, very controlling behavior, and irrational jealousy.

An easy place to start reading is my list of red flags at _*18 Warning Signs*_. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. And I would be happy to point you to several excellent online articles -- and a book -- about how to protect yourself when divorcing a BPDer. Take care, Redwing.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

LisaKane: >>>I think you should run far away, cut all contact except concerning your children and find a sane woman who is passionate, warm and loving. We exist and your wife is definitely not in our club. <<<

Thank you for that. After 20 years of being told how horrible, repulsive and undesirable I am, its nice to know I might find someone nice. 

CynthiaDe: I recorded some of her rants on my phone and listen to them occasionally to remind myself what I am not hearing. We are not living together anymore, thank goodness. 

Uptown: It has been a long several years since the last posting, with me struggling with what to do. Your comment above :>>>classic warning signs for BPD. These behaviors include the verbal/physical abuse, temper tantrums, controlling behavior, black-white thinking, false self image of always being "The Victim," inability to trust you, and lack of impulse control. <<<<

is spot on. Its always been black and white. Whenever anyone in family especially make a wrong move or says something that offends her or the expression on their face strikes something in my wife, she makes a push to cut them out of our lives. And I, wanting to keep the peace, have stupidly gone along with it. She has told me many times "It doesn't matter if its true, it only matters if I think its true" Hence, like you said, if she thinks its true, it is. If she imagines an wrong, it is a wrong. Probably 90% of what I was accused of was fabricated. Often she would interpret my facial gestures to mean something. My not looking into her eyes means I was lying. No, it means I was trying to avoid an arguement. Although I had hopes of an epiphany, I have come to see, albeit very slowly, that I think that is not going to happen. I tried to believe it would, despite others telling me it was never going to happen. If something can be interpreted as a slight, it generally is. I also believe that the meds she takes for ADD (Adderal) put her on high alert. Several years ago, my daughter and I talked her into stop taking the meds for about a month. Things were much better, not on edge, she interpreted things in a normal way. However, after a month, she started taking the pills again, and I asked about it, and she said " I see what you two are trying to do. Keep me stupid so you can control me. No way, I am taking my pills." It was said in a very hostile tone. 

I have a call into my attorney. I am going to file and go thru with it. I did have a consultation with Mort Fertel when I bought his course and I used my 5 minute session to deal with this. His only question was "Do you have any reason to believe things would be different if you two moved back in together?" I said no. He said he is the marriage guy, but in this case, he would not encourage me to go back into a house with her. I said I too was pro marriage and wasnt' looking for a divorce, but felt I had no options. I think I have done all I could do and more.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You mentioned a concern that your wife may try to get you arrested on a false domestic violence charge. My response to you was to get a Voice Operated Recorder to have with you when around your wife. If she were to call the police and accuse you of something, it would all be on the recorder, so the police would know what really happened. You would not be arrested. She might be, but you would not be arrested.
A recording would not admissible in court, but the police would listen to it and they would know exactly what happened, so they would not arrest you. She may be arrested on a false charge, however.


redwing_10 said:


> 3. The police... good question... I have friend who is a deputy and I asked him how they handle domestic abuse cases. He said they send two officers, and interview the parties separately. Then, based on that, they determine who they believe is the aggressor, and arrest that person. So I asked him, "So, its possible that even though I called and reported it, that its possible that the police might view me as the aggressor after talking with my wife?" And he said, yes, it is possible you could get arrested. And I chose not to call because I didn't want to take the chance to be arrested and have my name in the paper for domestic violence. Like I said, I have a medical type business with many clients in town, and the last thing I wanted was for the paper to say "Dr So and So arrested for domestic violence" Bad thinking in retrospect.





redwing_10 said:


> CynthiaDe: I recorded some of her rants on my phone and listen to them occasionally to remind myself what I am not hearing. We are not living together anymore, thank goodness.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> Buy a voice activated recorder and carry it with you at all times. If something happens with your wife, you will have proof. It is not admissible in court in most states, but the police will listen to it and they won't haul you away.
> It is very important to call the police on domestic violence, otherwise you have no proof and it's her word against yours. Most of the time, they are likely to believe the woman, unless there is some outside verification, like a recording.
> When you use the recorder, make sure the volume is turned all the way down. Some here have suggested purchasing a cheap pair of earbuds and cutting off the buds. That will direct all the sound into the wires, so there is no possible way of her hearing it go off or the beep to be heard.
> There is a particular type that is usually recommended here. I think this is the one: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BOXNSRY?refRID=1XEEXFBJJXFR9HW74J07&ref_=pd_bia_yo_t_1


Good info.

Something else to consider, VAR are legal in single party states. That means that as long as one person in the conversation agrees then it's legal to record. So if the person with the VAR agrees then it's ok.

Most states are single party states and the recordings are allowed in court.

State by State Compliance

Some states are dual/all-party states, meaning that everyone being recorded has to agree.

But even in dual party states, if a recording is made of a crime then the perpetrator(s) do not have to consent and the recording is permissible in court. Physical abuse is a crime.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

redwing_10 said:


> Any input or advice would be appreciated. Is this salvageable or am I wasting my time? Thoughts or opinions or questions? A womans perspective would be appreciated. I will gladly respond to questions.


As long as you're willing to ACCEPT poor treatment, you will continue to GET poor treatment.

This isn't about your wife. It's about your inability to protect yourself. You left her - good for you - but now you are right back where you started: letting her blame YOU for everything.

Next time she tells you that such and such is your fault, calmly touch her arm, smile sweetly, say "I don't want to spend my time with people who don't have my back," and get up and leave the room/event/location.

THAT is how you teach people to treat you with respect.

Thing is, if you don't get help for what allowed you to accept it in the first place, you're just going to attract similar women without realizing it. Divorce her, but also FIX what's in you that allows it.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Turnera: I agree one hundred percent. I allowed it and am at fault. A friend of mine told me to make up a note and put it where I could see it daily stating in my own words that I would not take abuse anymore. I have a card in my wallet that I made up that says:

I will not knowingly treat anyone poorly.
If I become aware that I did, I will apoogize.
If someone treats me poorly, I will let them know. 
If they continue to treat me poorly, 
I will not be around that person.
I will never allow myself to be treated poorly.

And the card is signed by me. 

My other issue ia addressing the issues my wife has with me. Some may be valid, and some might not be valid. I don't want to disregard the concerns she has. Obviously she thinks she is right. But to me, there is no excuse for verbal or physical abuse. Last summer when we moved out of the house, I was in a very bad place. My head is in a much better place now.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* Your W is crazier than a peach orchard sow, and you're even crazier for putting up with her!

You've got so many good years in front of you to be shared with someone who loves you for the good man that you are!

Get back in your lawyer's office, file those papers, and be done with it! You deserve far better out of life!*


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

redwing_10 said:


> I also believe that the meds she takes for ADD (Adderal) put her on high alert. Several years ago, my daughter and I talked her into stop taking the meds for about a month. Things were much better.


Redwing, if the stimulant medication is making her behavior worse, it would be prudent for her to obtain a second opinion from a psychiatrist. One reason is that stimulants do not work for all ADHD sufferers. Another reason is that BPD behavior is sometimes misdiagnosed as ADHD or ADD. Indeed, some researchers even suspect that adult ADHD and BPD might be two dimensions of the same disorder. A 2006 journal study, for example, reaches these conclusions:



> Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in adults and borderline personality Disorder (BPD) share some similar clinical features (e. g. impulsivity, emotional dysregulation, cognitive impairment). ADHD in childhood has been reported to be highly associated with the diagnosis of BPD in adulthood and adult ADHD often co-occurs with BPD. Treatment studies revealed an efficacy of dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) and DBT-based psychotherapy, respectively, in BPD and adult ADHD as well as neuroimaging and psychopharmacological studies showed some evidence for a potential common neurobiological dysfunction suggesting the hypothesis that ADHD and BPD may not be two distinct disorders, but represent at least in a subgroup of patients two dimensions of one disorder. See ADHD Same Thing as BPD.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

redwing_10 said:


> Turnera: I agree one hundred percent. I allowed it and am at fault.


So do something about it.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Uptown: My wife is someone who will not go along with any type of therapy. At least as far as I can tell, she does not accept outside help from mental health type professionals because..... as she says... there is nothing wrong with her. So any chance of her admitting the ADD meds might be influencing things would be a remote possibility. Thank you for the link. I will read it. 

Turnera: I plan to.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

To answer your question: No, your situation is NOT salvageable. By any stretch of the imagination.

OP, you have sat on this powder keg for FAR too long. TAM cannot tell you what to do (as evidenced from your thread of 3 years ago). You already KNOW what you need to do. You are just reluctant to take the first step...

File. Divorce this horrid, physically abusive person. She is no "wife." She is an adversary.

Despite it all, you still claim she is a "wonderful person" in your last paragraph. This thinking is delusional.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Happy as a clam: I should clarify that... at times she can be a wonderful person, and sometimes I have looked at "what could be" not "what is" ... that was my mistake for thinking like that. I think those were moments I clung to as to "what it could be like." You mentioned the word "adversary" ... my thoughts as well. By her own admission, she has purposefully treated me bad for a long time, she knows it, and admits it and even says she feels bad for doing so. I might do dumb stuff that might hurt her feelings, but not once has it ever been intentional. Yes, finally I know what to do... I just didn't want to hoping she would change. That, again was, delusional thinking on my part.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What YOU need to do at this point is read every single thing you can get your hands on about BOUNDARIES and their resultant CONSEQUENCES.

A boundary is what you decide you can't live with. Like people yelling at you. A consequence is what YOU then do, YOUR action, to protect yourself against the boundary being crossed. Like leaving a room or hanging up a phone if the other person yells at you. 

This takes the control of YOUR happiness out of the hands of other people. You know, since you can't make anyone else do what you want. The only person you can control is YOU.

So what do you do when someone hurts you? You remove yourself from the equation. That does two things. It protects you from FURTHER hurt, and it just might teach the other person a lesson so they can learn to stop doing the hurting action.

The best benefit is it takes you out of the crazy cycle, the hopelessness, the doubt. Makes you feel in control of your life again. Lets you approach that person as an equal. 

It gives you your life back.

AT TIMES she can be a wonderful person? So you should live a miserable, forsaken life the other 90% of the time?

Your life is worth more than that. Don't waste it.

Walk away. And if she really loves you, you can then say to her 'fix yourself and then we'll talk.'


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Turnera: Your comments on boundaries is well noted. I agree. I have allowed this. And my comment about her being a wonderful person at times, while true, does not make up for the 95 percent of times when she's not. Stupid of me to look to that as the little ray of light I look for. But I think 20 years of being conditioned to take it really put me in a bad place where I couldn't think straight. Yes, my life is worth more than that and I'm not staying in sickness any more. I have contacted my attorney.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Update: I signed the divorce papers and its now in process. Very disheartening to destroy 20 years together. Not anything I wanted to do, but really felt forced to... I am living with my dad with no end in sight, she is in an apartment. My daughter has encouraged me to look for a house, as I am sure she wants out of the apartment. 

I am discouraged it has come to this, it isn't what anyone wants when they get married. So my plan is to divorce, make settlement fair, get a house and go from there. My disappointment comes because there isn't anything I wouldn't do for her. But every time I step forward with kindness, anger gets returned. I took her to Florida for a week in January trying to repair things... took her to Milwaukee and thought when we got back there was a chance, but all I got was anger. I would have taken her to music camp in June, bought her an instrument, taken her to DC last month, and would be going to Colorado for a Labor day music camp..... if she had been nice and willing to put the past in the past. 

Right now, trying to sort out why some people only see the faults of others and not their part. Me, I always look at my part first, and unfortunately, assume blame I don't need to often. I don't think doing anything different would have made a difference. I mean really...If I was beating someone, and they told others about it, I certainly wouldn't be mad they said something. I would be thinking, "Wow, I caused this." 

So my plan is to stay tough. Get a house. Accept no abuse. My daughter and I will have place. And if my wife decides to fix herself I would be open to putting things back together. Chances are slim for reconciliation, but its the only shot I have. 

Bottom Line: I can never go back into a situation like that ever again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Once you're away from it, you'll be surprised how free you feel; you'll wonder why you waited so long.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

redwing_10 said:


> But every time I step forward with kindness, anger gets returned. I took her to Florida for a week in January trying to repair things... took her to Milwaukee and thought when we got back there was a chance, but all I got was anger. I would have taken her to music camp in June, bought her an instrument, taken her to DC last month, and would be going to Colorado for a Labor day music camp..... if she had been nice and willing to put the past in the past.
> 
> Right now, trying to sort out why some people only see the faults of others and not their part. Me, I always look at my part first, and unfortunately, assume blame I don't need to often. I don't think doing anything different would have made a difference. I mean really...If I was beating someone, and they told others about it, I certainly wouldn't be mad they said something. I would be thinking, "Wow, I caused this."


Dude. Let me put this as simple as possible.

You're a punching bag for her.

Plain and simple.


STOP THAT. NOW.


1) Divorce
2) Get some serious IC to determine why you allowed her to treat you the way that she did
3) Heal. Physically and Mentally. You're still trying to figure out how to blame yourself for her being physically abusive
4) STAY AWAY FROM HER.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Thank you for the comments. Yes, things are underway. I'm glad in a way, sad in another. Normal I suppose. And I am seeing a counselor. Actually, my daughter asked me to get her someone to talk to, so we are both in IC. I was looking at my digital camera and saw the pictures I had taken of all the bruises, and I was shocked. Can't believe those pictures are of me. Never again.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Good news, rw...

How are the negotiations/settlement coming along? Do you both have lawyers and making progress for a settlement? When do you expect the divorce to be final?

And what was your wife's reaction to getting served with divorce papers? Did she fight it, or is she just done too?

And very good that you and your daughter are getting IC. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

redwing_10 said:


> Things are underway.... And I am seeing a counselor.


Redwing, thanks for returning to give us an update. If your W has strong BPD traits, you essentially are walking away from a parent/child relationship, not a husband/wife marriage. The D likely will get nasty very quickly because a BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment. So she likely will split you black, very very black. I therefore suggest you read *Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.* It is written by Randi Kreger, author of the best selling BPD book.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You wife sounds like she is a controller, the rape of your daughter put her over the edge, instead of finding comfort in you, she blamed you for not 'protecting' the family. She needed counseling then, did you guys get any? She is now 48 so also a difficult time of life for some women with hormones flying all over the place, she is rewriting history in her mind and it is focused on the negative, a bad place to be.
If she wont see this for herself, get the necessary help, then there is nothing you can do. So sorry.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Happy as a Clam: The negotiations have not started yet. That is the next step. We both have lawyers, and I would like this done as soon as possible, so I can secure a place for my daughter and I. 

One other thing since my post of 7/31/15: On 8/1, our son came back the apartment, totally drunk and possibly with anxiety meds in system too. There was a huge confrontation and shoving match between my wife and son. This really scared our daughter. Wife texts me on 8/2 to tell me what happened, and says she has had it with his behavior and is kicking him out. Well... that doesn't happen, and our daughter feels that for her own safety, she had to move out and move in with our other daughter. Our youngest daughter was very talkative and very upset and very angry at my wife and son. Justifiably so. 

My wife was very angry at getting papers and raged on me via texts a week and a half ago. She has since calmed down. 

Uptown: Point well taken on abandonment. That is one thing she stressed several months ago when we met for dinner. "Don't ever leave me again" were her exact words. I will check out the book. I have the Walking on Eggshells book.

Aine: Your assessment is spot on perfect, and that is how I see it and have always seen it. We did seek counseling after finding out about our daughters rape. It helped me. My wife says that she had a breakdown and thats what caused all the physical abuse. She said she was suffering from PTSD after getting no closure with the police regarding the rape being covered up basically. And she said that when I didn't take her word on what she thought her neice was doing, it threw her into a breakdown. 

Thank you very much for the input.


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