# Women's opinion wanted. Ex wanted commitment. How fast does she move on?



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I know I will get flamed for this as I created a similar post but I really just wanted to get a woman's perspective here as I am really not sure what to think right now. 

Was with my girl friend 3.5yrs. We are both in our 30s, I have 2 kids, she has one. She has been biting at me about commitment, moving in together, and whatnot. However, we have had a few issue. Nothing I don't think we can work out, but I have been stalling. It has hurt us. 

We got in a little fight around christmas and ended up spending the holidays apart. She is a very family/kids/commitment oriented person being catholic and living in a catholic community. She wanted a happy, normal family. 

After christmas, she quit our relationship citing "we are going nowhere", as well as my lack of attention to her because she does not seem to desire sitting down and discussing some tough issues that I think would be required to make a family work. 

I have recently communicated with her recently and she has told me flat out to leave her alone, she tried, it has been 3.5yrs, she wanted commitment. However, she did NOT know I was serious about a commitment and even bought a ring. She is aware I have it and have told her I want to make things right and I too am tired of living apart and want to move forward. 

I really kind of figured the ring and my word that I am ready to figure things out, she might have some thoughts about that. However, I have been surprised that she is still saying its time to part. Now, I realize the inet is a hard gauge but I will say, she has fought hard for us, really wanted it, loves how good I am with her little girl, I bring a lot of man qualities that she loves, always wanted to see me, etc. Everything you would expect would say, "commitment should bring this back together and fixed". 

However, last night she reiterated that she tried, and talking to someone else. She is gorgeous and constantly contacted by men. However, she has always told me how picky she is, and was very excited to be with me. I have told her before that one of my off buttons for any chance to reunite is sleeping with someone else after me. Call me diluted but it is just one of my off buttons. However, she was very quick to tell me they are just talking and she has never cheated on me. I mean she knows me.... If she wants me gone, all she has to do is say she is sleeping with someone else......but she is an honest person and may not wish to lie just to get me to piss off. 

Her best friend seems to think she is pretty pissed with me but acting a little irrational and thinks she needs a cool down time and likely will see reason. Her best friend knows is both well and siding with me on this one. I just don't know. I just think we need to sort out a few issues before we proceed. 


So, may I ask some women, if your sole focus for 3.5yrs, all the way up to 2 weeks ago, has been commitment/family/etc, and finally getting some communications from your man AFTER a breakup, would you still jump ship and move on? She keeps talking about her "maternal clock" because we both wanted a baby, and I know she won't do that without being married. So I am looking at the timeline here. You got your man of 3.5yrs that you 'wanted' a commitment from, and he is now offering, or go with plan B which is to pursue some other relationship that probably would not solidify for quite some time? I mean, how long does it take to 'really' know someone?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

bobsmith said:


> So, may I ask some women, if your sole focus for 3.5yrs, all the way up to 2 weeks ago, has been commitment/family/etc, and finally getting some communications from your man AFTER a breakup, *would you still jump ship and move on?*


Probably. Especially if I felt “done” with the whole thing. Believe me, if she’s been talking about commitment for 3.5 years but you failed to act on it and deliver, she’s been detaching A LOT longer than you realize. Ever heard the expression “a day late and a dollar short”?



bobsmith said:


> She keeps talking about her "maternal clock" because we both wanted a baby, and I know she won't do that without being married. So I am looking at the timeline here. You got your man of 3.5yrs that you 'wanted' a commitment from, and he is now offering, or go with plan B which is to pursue some other relationship that probably would not solidify for quite some time?


You’ve got it backwards — I think the irony here is that YOU are now her Plan B.

Again, you dragged it out far too long.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

@bobsmith, it's hard to know what your ex might be feeling. It will dependent on each woman. Still, here is what it looks like from one woman's perspective.

In your favor:
-If you have a list of thoughtful issues that you wanted to resolve prior to moving in/getting engaged, this would make you appear to be a wise person bringing some forethought to the next step. I mean thoughtful things like, you want to work out how disciplining the sets of children would work out. Things that show long-term planning to ensure the success of your relationship/marriage.

-If you actually have the ring, and someone else has seen it (like her best friend), then again, it would suggest that you were actually serious (vs, say, having a picture of the ring you'd picked out and will get her if you get back together.)

Against you:
-Your ex is religious, yes? She is living in a Catholic community and identifies as Catholic. For most religious-oriented women, I think 3.5 years is a very long time to be waiting for a marriage proposal. So when you say "up until two weeks ago", I strongly suspect that she was feeling antagonized about the long wait for some time, even if she didn't tell you. You say that stalling has hurt you- I'd think yes, it very likely did a lot of harm.

-In addition, what issues were causing you to hesitate? I also would have been cranky if, after 3+ years, my guy didn't know if he wanted to marry me because of concerns. Above, I stated that thoughtful issues might be a positive for you; but there is a difference between thoughtful, "let's plan it out" items and "I need this to change" stuff. If it was more "this has to change", then she might thinking that you're just not compatible, not willing to jump in and work it out after you enjoyed her during quite a few of her child-bearing years. 

-A big problem that I see is that what you are referring to as a "little fight" led to the two of you being apart over Christmas. "Little" to you led to something was very likely highly upsetting to her: separation over the Christmas holiday. I am not Catholic or particularly religious, but such a move would have angered me in many ways, and I'd guess they angered her as well:
a. Christmas is the ultimate Family Holiday, and instead of her enjoying it with the man she loved and hoped to marry, she was alone;
b. Piggy-backing on a, the kids were apart instead of together. If you've spent past Christmases together, this might have been a really issue- did she have to explain why you and your children were missing from the celebration?
c. Christmas-New Years is a very common time for people to get engaged or married. My husband proposed to me on NYE, for instance. So if anyone in her circle or church celebrated an engagement or marriage or even anniversary, it could have caused her to feel resentment towards you.

Of course, there is always the possibility that the man she is speaking with now actually caught her eye before the fight, and she just gave up fighting for your relationship because of the little fight, or alternatively she may have actively used the fight to force a "break" and she used it to reach out to this other guy. 

What I am pretty confident on is: healthy women who are in love with their partners are NOT going to feel good about being apart over Christmas due to a fight. This might have been a fatal blow to your relationship. She might not feel she will ever trust you to have the happy, normal family she wanted. I would think this to be the cause if you were the main person driving the separation over Christmas.

In my past, there was one relationship that I ended where I regretted ending it and could have been won back; the others that I ended, I would never have gone back. The one I regretted was because I came to realize that he a lot to offer, even though I was frustrated. The ones I didn't regret, well, it was because I realized that my life was as good or better without them. 

So if you try to look objectively at the situation and your relationship with her, do you think she would believe that you added to her life? If you can take your emotions out, what do you think caused her to switch? Was it the stalling? The separation over Christmas? Do you think she might just be done with you, feeling that you are no longer a good bet for her? 

If you suspect she doesn't want to talk with you because of the man she's speaking with now, are you willing to compete and try to win her back? 

These are the things that come my mind from your post; I realize it's a bit rambling. I leave it here for your consideration.

Overall though: I think it would be unusual for a woman to end a relationship just as the man she loves and has been wanting for years finally bought her a ring and was ready to propose. If you can find out what is behind her anger and resentment and can address it, and show that you can make her life better, I think you have a good chance of getting her back. But there is always the possibility that she is just DONE, and there is nothing more you can do. 

Best of luck!


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> You’ve got it backwards — I think the irony here is that YOU are now her Plan B.
> 
> Again, you dragged it out far too long.



LOL, it just funny using that term. When we met, she was sort of talking to another guy and told me she would let me know if it doesn't work out... I just told her not to worry about it, I never want to be someone's plan B. We were united shortly after. 

Now it looks like I have the similar deal here. Again, though, if that becomes the case (which will probably become clear soon), I will have to step back and realize I screwed this one up pretty good.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

RoseAglow said:


> @bobsmith
> 
> 
> 
> Best of luck!


"-If you actually have the ring, and someone else has seen it (like her best friend), then again, it would suggest that you were actually serious (vs, say, having a picture of the ring you'd picked out and will get her if you get back together.)"

Yes, ring is certainly here and her and her sister have a picture of it. I was pretty surprised she did not come around once she got the pic, but I think she is still pretty pissed with me. 


"If you suspect she doesn't want to talk with you because of the man she's speaking with now, are you willing to compete and try to win her back?"

Uh, I would fight a rabid bear for her. It it funny you would say that. She has mentioned before that she did not feel I would even put up a fight for her. That hurt, but should have turned on some bells for me. Since our break up, I have done nothing but fight for her. A fight she is conveying she does not desire. I really don't know what else a guy can do. Visit home, flowers, ring, letters.....fluffy red carpet.....

Its just funny because I know her and she seems to desire a man that will go the extra mile to earn her, even though she pretty much threw herself at me when we met. That is probably what scares me the most. If she has spotted someone else, she may be doing the same and I am just old news. Knowing her, she does not keep two people on the hook at once. However, I would honestly have no problem if she felt she needed to go on dates with this other dude to figure things out. I just have to draw the 'end' line for myself at intimacy. If she feels she needs to go that far, I really would be a plan B after that. 


"So if you try to look objectively at the situation and your relationship with her, do you think she would believe that you added to her life? If you can take your emotions out, what do you think caused her to switch? Was it the stalling? The separation over Christmas? Do you think she might just be done with you, feeling that you are no longer a good bet for her? "

I would like to believe I added to her life. Coming from her, she desired a man that was good for her child, will protect her, can do anything she needs, etc. She has told me on several occasions that she has never liked giving oral, but she loved doing that for me. It made me feel like a special partner. I also loved taking care of her in any way she ever needed. We were NEVER a problem in bed, and she told me that many times. "If we just lived in this bed, we would never have an issues". I gathered that I took good care of her needs. 

I can guarantee she has been on my butt for a LONG time about marriage, kids, family, house, etc, etc, etc. The problems for me came that I was put in a position to do ALL of that for her. She does not seem the type that knows how to HELP get some things worked out, even when asked. If I asked for her opinion on a matter, she would say "i am not sure what I want". That does not help me!

Since we were fine only days before Xmas, I would say the holiday roasted her ass. There is a quick story here. During Thanksgiving, we hung at her parents. We drank, got a little drunk, then she wanted me to haul her to town to go shopping. I, and every other family member told her it was not a good idea. Cops out, just asking for a problem. We left, me driving, told her it is not a good idea. She flipped out ripping my ass wanting to go, I got pissed and flipped the car around, went back to her house, I got my truck, and just went home. Foolish drive but I was drunk and pissed. We talked it out the next day but this was becoming a pattern. Her drinking is causing problems. 

Anyway, Few days after Thanksgiving, I totaled my truck hitting 3 deer. I was without wheels as I figured out my plan. I was driving my totaled truck but for some reason, I wanted a break from her and used as an excuse to not go to her house. She of course asked if I was getting around, etc, and that she missed me. The issue for me is she won't spend the night at my house because it feels weird. I just felt like we have things to talk about if I am to commit to this woman forever!

So I am sure that drops some things in the mix.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You only bought the ring AFTER she left the relationship so that to me says that you weren't prepared to commit until she actually acted. You didn't do a thing until you though you may loose her. She knows that you only acted once she left, she isn't stupid. 

3.5-4 years when she wanted to get married and have another child is far far too long. I would expect a man to commit to marry after no more than a year. A man who wasn't prepared to commit wouldn't be for me, nor her it seems. 

You also said that you had another girlfriend for 10 years before that, so its clear that you are not the committing sort, and you were also expecting her to wait till you had built the house which would have taken years. You could easily have sold the homes and bought one together in just a few months. 

A woman in her 30's hasn't got long to wait to have a child, sorry but you misjudged her, she made it clear what she wanted many times and you kept dragging it out and now its too late. Let her go and move on.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

What are the tough things you wanted to talk about with her that she was not willing to discuss?


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Satya said:


> What are the tough things you wanted to talk about with her that she was not willing to discuss?


1. Living location. She would mumble on about being away from her small catholic community that she has grown up in, moving with me to my large acreage that is a 15min drive for her. She is pretty much used to having her family next door. I would ask if she just doesn't want to live there at all, and she would not give me a clear answer. 

2. Her attitude. She seemed to be mad a LOT. Of course it was not always this way. I think I might have been ignorant, but it was really a turn off and she never really outright said "our wheel spinning is making more mad each day", but the reality is this could be it. We needed to work through that. 

3. Her behavior with everyone in her house. She always said she wants another kid, loves kids, wants to be a wife, etc, but complains constantly when we are there. It gets so bad that many times I have just loaded up my boys and left because I am tired of hearing it. I would try to talk to her later about why she is like that and she would never give a good answer other than "the house is too small". I don't know if commitment would have changed her tune or not, but I honestly felt like we should not need a huge house to be happy, and could keep sane in the smaller house temporarily. 

4. Complain about kids. Of course not her own.....she is an angel, but my boys would bicker a bit between them, as kids do. She would start steaming and I can just read her that she can't handle it. All this makes me highly question her suitability to be a mother/wife without constant fighting about 'something'. I got to a point where I was ready to jump once I had enough of her behaviors. My boys might sit down on the couch and sort of bicker about who's foot is touching what. You know, basic kid stuff, really nothing to get upset about, just be a parent, correct it, don't let it affect you. She would say things like "god, I just can't handle this". Then she talks about having more kids!

5. Seem to get too upset about every little thing. **** happens in a family. I get mad too, but I don't wish to marry someone like me. There was dirt on the kitchen floor......duh, there were 5 people in it. There are too many shoes by the door.....that happens when your own daughter has 5 pair right there for some reason. 


All this makes be question if she has the grit to persevere or if I would be able to keep my sanity. There is no way we would be able to unite in a single home without some tough but temporary solutions, or win the lottery. We just cannot afford 3 mortgages between the 2 of us. We needed to move to her place, sell mine, and jump. 


I guess what I have realized recently is had we discussed my issues more from a place of "I want to marry you, but here are some concerns I need to talk to you about", rather than just tell her my issues with her, it might have brought about some more positive and proactive talks. 

We did have commitment talks, but I was always in the "eventually" camp. I have come around to "life is ticking by, its time". I am just not sure if she will see my recent transition as genuine. Part of me thinks if I could get her to truly believe that I am ready, she would get things back together and work it out. Oth, I guess she could believe this is just more promises....



I will say this, I am pretty sure she knows I put my dog up for sale. My dog!!! That I had before I met her, that goes everywhere with me. I have come to realize I would need to make some hard decisions. Whether I make it work with her, or just focus on my new place without her, my dog is just another 'thing to deal with', and I seem to need to reduce some of my chaos. 

I was just hoping if she realized I am willing to get rid of my dog, I might actually have some sincerity in what I'm saying.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> 1. Living location. She would mumble on about being away from her small catholic community that she has grown up in, moving with me to my large acreage that is a 15min drive for her. She is pretty much used to having her family next door. I would ask if she just doesn't want to live there at all, and she would not give me a clear answer.
> 
> 2. Her attitude. She seemed to be mad a LOT. Of course it was not always this way. I think I might have been ignorant, but it was really a turn off and she never really outright said "our wheel spinning is making more mad each day", but the reality is this could be it. We needed to work through that.
> 
> ...


Uh yeah.
I'm starting to think you dodged a bullet.

Always watch a person's actions.

You were dragging your feet, but I believe for good reason. Your gut was telling you that there were too many large issues unresolved. And they should be resolved before you consider marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

bobsmith said:


> 1. Living location. She would mumble on about being away from her small catholic community that she has grown up in, moving with me to my large acreage that is a 15min drive for her. She is pretty much used to having her family next door. I would ask if she just doesn't want to live there at all, and she would not give me a clear answer.
> 
> 2. Her attitude. She seemed to be mad a LOT. Of course it was not always this way. I think I might have been ignorant, but it was really a turn off and she never really outright said "our wheel spinning is making more mad each day", but the reality is this could be it. We needed to work through that.
> 
> ...


What??? Why are you getting rid of the poor dog who has done nothing wrong? Your boys must be upset about that. I would never ever get rid of a dog for anyone. Thats really sad.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You can have commitment without marriage, and have kids together. Many, many do. If you don't _really_ want to be married, then let her go to find someone who will marry her. IMO, marriage is a bad deal, but you get to choose if it's worth it to _you_.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Satya said:


> Uh yeah.
> I'm starting to think you dodged a bullet.
> 
> Always watch a person's actions.
> ...


My thoughts exactly. These are not little issues, they are huge issues. She say she is done, possibly a ploy to get you to commit - don't get duped into committing when your probably really shouldn't.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, your girlfriend is gone. She's said so. She's asked you to leave her alone. Please, have enough self-respect to do her the courtesy of believing her and honoring her clearly stated wishes.

Then, figure out why you are so drawn to what sounds like an incredibly drama-laden, high-strung, relationship with a myriad of problems that no one seemed either willing or equipped to adequately address. She sounds unstable. There were large points of incompatibility between you. From this and your other thread, you sound like you have a hard time with compromise - you see your way as the "right" way and others as the wrong one by default. Neither of you can apparently communicate effectively. You didn't want this woman seriously until you thought she was gone but now you're after her like she's the last woman on earth. 

Both of you have issues. Neither of you sound particularly emotionally healthy, nor is either of you likely a great candidate for a healthy relationship. You can't fix her, but you can fix that about yourself if you want to stop repeating this scenario. Figure out what a healthy relationship actually looks like and what it takes to have one. Decide if you want one, and if you do, get to work making yourself into someone who's actually capable of being in one with another emotionally healthy person.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

From your long list of things about her that bother you, it's clear that you don't like a lot of who she is. And I would not blame you. As @Satya said, it sounds like you dodged a bullet.

It also sounds like your point with her was that until she became someone that she is not, you did not want to marry her. Well, that never works.

For a person, man or woman, whose goal is marriage, 3.5 years is long enough to wait for a commitment. You would not commit, so she's gone. Your claim that you might commit in the future, if she changes into someone she is not, is no promise of commitment. It's not commitment. 

You really need to respect her choice and let her go. Just end contact with her and get on with your life.

And if you have not sold your dog, don't do it. Keep the dog.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Not all relationships work out. Rather than go into details, I'd say that she decided to break things off. You had made not commitment to be together for the rest of your lives, so she if free to do so for any reasons she may choose. 

You were dating. She decided to stop and to date someone else. Without an agreed upon commitment beforehand, No harm no foul. (That said it may still be really miserable for you, and you have my sympathy for that). 

It makes not the slightest difference whose "fault" it is or who is right or wrong.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Satya said:


> Uh yeah.
> I'm starting to think you dodged a bullet.
> 
> Always watch a person's actions.
> ...


I'm on board with this train. Not sure she sounds like marriage material, which is probably why you were dragging your feet. Subconsciously.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@bobsmith, 

Rather than getting into the "you dodged a bullet" traincar, let me answer your question from my perspective: 



> So, may I ask some women, if your sole focus for 3.5yrs, all the way up to 2 weeks ago, has been commitment/family/etc, and finally getting some communications from your man *AFTER a breakup*, would you still jump ship and move on? She keeps talking about her "maternal clock" because we both wanted a baby, and I know she won't do that without being married. So I am looking at the timeline here. You got your man of 3.5yrs that you 'wanted' a commitment from, and he is now offering, or go with plan B which is to pursue some other relationship that probably would not solidify for quite some time? I mean, how long does it take to 'really' know someone?


If a guy was my sole focus for 3.5 years and he knew I was all about commitment/family/etc. and did not propose, I would get the message his actions were saying--namely he doesn't want to marry me. Now I'm not saying this is actually "me-Affaircare" -- I'm saying if I were a person all about commitment/family/etc. 

Also note that you said you finally communicated with her AFTER THE BREAKUP. Are you aware what breaking up means? It means 'done.' It means the door that had been opened, is closed, and closed permanently. You are assuming that "breaking up" means "manipulating you to get the ring she wants--and just making a threat to make you act" and it is within the realm of conceivability that it means "I held the door open as long as I could but you would not walk through it so now I have CLOSED IT." That's what it would mean to me. I don't make idle threats--I mean what I actually say. 

So to your question, yes I'd jump ship and never look back. There wouldn't be threats--breaking up means "this door is now closed" and I'd look to the future whatever that may be.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Bob,

After reading your latest post, I have to agree with others — you really dodged a bullet on this one. You’re not a good match and your gut was telling you so.

Let her go, and for crying out loud... KEEP THE DOG!!!

After reading that you would honestly ditch the dog (presumably he’s a lifelong companion — HIS lifetime, not yours) to prove a point about “making changes” really makes me question your thinking and lucidity.

I honestly think you could benefit from some counseling to sort out your thought processes. And if you get rid of the dog, please don’t get another one if it means so little to you that you would just sell it, regardless of whether or not girlfriend takes you back. The poor dog has done nothing but be a loyal companion .


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes, I think there is no question at ALL that I was dragging my feet because of my concerns. In talks with her best friend, she cannot see my ex succeeding in ANY relationship until she works a few things out. I don't consider myself 'afraid of marriage'. Remember I am catholic too and it is part of our upbringing. However, I take that matter seriously and want to know I have a partner for life that will compromise and HELP me when I need it. I can guarantee I have no issue with commitment. Hell, I put a promise ring on a girls finger in high school. I still regret not being mature enough to understand that was real! I just seem to keep attracting women with real issues, and as I get older, about the only thing left is bad apples. So I will probably have to start every new conversation with "hello, because you hit all my marks for physical attraction, I would like to ask about your nutjob points? Why are you crazy?"


I may just be delusional in thinking we could figure it out if she knew how serious I was about the relationship. She seemed to want the relationship very bad, yet was not willing to sit down and have some hard talks. She always said "it just shouldn't be this hard". I really just wanted to say, "you are right, but because you ***** about every single thing that comes built in to a family, I am questioning your real intention here". 


I know this seems like just a rant about her. I know I have my own issues, but fully willing to work hard on them for my partner. She had some very good traits as well, thus why I am so drawn to her. Pushing 40yo, i can tell you only my GF from high school has put this type of feeling in me. She has something that I desire a LOT, and it is difficult to convey.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I, too, think you dodged a bullet. She sounds quite high-maintenance and fussy. However, you're not of the hook:

Did you buy the ring AFTER your big fight? If so, it took all of that drama to decide you want to commit now? Lame and disingenuous. A proposal should not come from strife or ultimatums.

If I recall correctly, in your other thread you commented how you just "blew her off" over the holidays because you didn't feel good about yourself. Is that correct? While I understand that feeling, sometimes it is not all about you. In the past, I have caused hurt feelings amongst my friends by being absent from the relationship during those times. It's harmful to the relationship.

Lastly, if the man I was committed to for three and a half years offered to sell his dog So that we could be together, I would immediately put an end to the relationship. Huge turn off, and it reeks of desperation, not to mention that it's a terrible thing to do. That would tell me if a dog is so easily disposable, would I eventually become disposable, too? 

She is done. Respect her wishes and move on.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> I know this seems like just a rant about her. *I know I have my own issues, but fully willing to work hard on them for my partner.* She had some very good traits as well, thus why I am so drawn to her. Pushing 40yo, i can tell you only my GF from high school has put this type of feeling in me. She has something that I desire a LOT, and it is difficult to convey.


Don't work hard on your issues for your partner. Work hard on your issues for _yourself._ Then you'll be in much better shape to find, attract, and keep, a great partner.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bobsmith said:


> if your sole focus for 3.5yrs, all the way up to 2 weeks ago, has been commitment/family/etc, and finally getting some communications from your man AFTER a breakup, would you still jump ship and move on?


Probably because you ONLY offered it once I left. That tells women you didn't really WANT to move in, you just offered so as not to lose her. Therefore, I'd expect to have problems with you in the future.

That said, if SHE was never willing to have honest talks about issues, I wouldn't want her, either. Such things only get worse once you move in together.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bobsmith said:


> I know I have my own issues, but fully willing to work hard on them for my partner.


Well, you _had_ 3 1/2 years to do so. 

Why didn't you?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I have to agree with the others. You dodged a bullet. She was right. It shouldn't have been that hard. I think you weren't compatible, but close enough to it that you both hoped for a time things would work out. They didn't. Send her off with good wishes, a prayer for her future well-being, and continue looking for someone you can spend your life with. 

To your original question, a lady at Mass and I were discussing her and her BF's future plans. She said "I am NOT a long term girlfriend!" to express her feelings on the subject and I'm with her. Youngsters should take their time, a few years or so, to make a final decision one way or the other as they have growing still to do. Mature adults should pretty much know if their partner is a candidate for marriage and make steps in that direction after 1-2 years in my view.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> Yes, I think there is no question at ALL that I was dragging my feet because of my concerns. In talks with her best friend, she cannot see my ex succeeding in ANY relationship until she works a few things out. I don't consider myself 'afraid of marriage'. Remember I am catholic too and it is part of our upbringing. However, I take that matter seriously and want to know I have a partner for life that will compromise and HELP me when I need it. I can guarantee I have no issue with commitment. Hell, I put a promise ring on a girls finger in high school. I still regret not being mature enough to understand that was real! I just seem to keep attracting women with real issues, and as I get older, about the only thing left is bad apples. So I will probably have to start every new conversation with "hello, because you hit all my marks for physical attraction, I would like to ask about your nutjob points? Why are you crazy?"


Giving a girl in HS a promise ring does not prove that you are willing to commit to a relationship and/or marriage. After all, you did not really commit to her did you?

You are doing what a lot of people do, they find someone who will stick around. Then they set about trying to change that person into what they really want. 

You do not like the person that your most resent ex girlfriend is. That's pretty clear. So why were you trying to mold her into the person you wanted? The reason for dating is to find out if that person is a good marriage partner. She is clearly not a good marriage partner for you. So why are you wanting to force it.

It's your fault that you chose to stay with a woman who is a bad match for you for years. Dating the process of finding out if a person is a good match for you. And the first time you see that the person is not, you should have run for the hills. You wasted years on this woman. So learn your lesson and move on. Next time leave the first time you see evidence that a woman is not a good candidate for marriage. Important lessons are expensive. You've paid the price so at least own what you have learned.



bobsmith said:


> I may just be delusional in thinking we could figure it out if she knew how serious I was about the relationship. She seemed to want the relationship very bad, yet was not willing to sit down and have some hard talks. She always said "it just shouldn't be this hard". I really just wanted to say, "you are right, but because you ***** about every single thing that comes built in to a family, I am questioning your real intention here".
> 
> I know this seems like just a rant about her. I know I have my own issues, but fully willing to work hard on them for my partner. She had some very good traits as well, thus why I am so drawn to her. Pushing 40yo, i can tell you only my GF from high school has put this type of feeling in me. She has something that I desire a LOT, and it is difficult to convey.


Yes this does seem like a rant about her. She might do very well with someone else. But you and she are not a good match. So move on.

Your high school girlfriend "put this type of feeling in me". No one "puts feelings in you". You own your own feelings.

What you need to do now is figure out why you stuck with a bad relationship this long. And find out why you think someone else 'puts' feelings in you and how to own your own feelings. Go fix yourself. Forget about all your ex girlfriend's issues. 

Also, learn to respect her decision. She ended the relationship. Stop trying to get her back. Just end all contact with her.


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

What happened to her first husban?


I'm not buying she only likes doing oral with you bit!



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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I still want to know what happened to the dog 


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Giving a girl in HS a promise ring does not prove that you are willing to commit to a relationship and/or marriage.


My daughter dated a young man her second year in college. She was so head over heels with him, yet being very careful - wouldn't let him come to her birthday party cos she didn't know him well enough. Even then, 3 months later, for Christmas, she was expecting a video game or something for Christmas. He gave her a promise ring! Red flags... He turned out to be an abusive prick who only gave her the ring to keep other guys away and control her. 

Not saying that's you. Just saying that a promise ring can be symbolism for a lot of different things. So try to think outside the box about yourself and your own actions.


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## pragmaticGoddess (Nov 29, 2017)

OP, I think I replied to your first post. I would say the same, just leave it be. You have broken up, leave it as that. If you have pursued her and shown that you want to be with her, but she is still unwilling to reconcile, it is over. 

You can however, learn from this relationship and use the time that has been given back to you to work on your self-esteem. From your first post it sounds like you need a lot of help with your self-image. 

Also, are you sure you miss her or miss the comfort of being in a relationship?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

a few bullet points in no particular order -

- dating is doing things with someone and spending time with them in order to determine if they are the one you want to be with. 

- for a grown adult, a year of steady dating is enough time to determine that. 

- people tend to do what they want as well as not do what they don't want. 

- the fact you didn't commit/propose/marry in 3.5 years is because you did not want to.
- she knows that. 

- if marriage/more kids/family etc is her end-goal, then she was fully in her right to end the long term dating with you. 

- your reasons for not committing to marriage and child-rearing with her were/are valid. 

- My suspicion is that you buying the ring, getting rid of the dog and chasing her now, is not that you suddenly have a deep realization that she is the perfect match for you and that you now want to marry and raise a family with her; but rather that you want to keep her on speed-dial and continue the current status quo of dating and sex and fun weekends together with the kids, but not a full commitment and marriage. 
- that is manipulation and not compromise or capitulation on your part. 

- she is within her right to reject that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> - My suspicion is that you buying the ring, getting rid of the dog and chasing her now, is not that you suddenly have a deep realization that she is the perfect match for you and that you now want to marry and raise a family with her; but rather that you want to keep her on speed-dial and continue the current status quo of dating and sex and fun weekends together with the kids, but not a full commitment and marriage.
> - that is manipulation and not compromise or capitulation on your part.
> 
> - she is within her right to reject that.


I want to talk about this a little further because I think this is a lot of what is going on. 

I think if you wanted to have a home and family with her, you would have done so within the first year or two. 

I think your reasons for not jumping into marriage/commitment were valid and I think they were things that would need to be addressed and resolved prior to marriage. 

........but in 3.5 years they were never addressed or resolved which means either both of you are inept at resolving relationship issues and there for should not marry (I don't mean that as an insult or put down. just stating fact) 

Or she refuses to make any concessions or compromises in those areas which makes her a questionable marriage candidate. 

Or the issues are unresolvable which brings us right back around that you two are not a good match for marriage. 

So IMHO the fact that you got rid of a beloved family dog, bought a ring and began chasing after her after she threw in the towel tells me that you are not pursuing marriage and family with her, but rather are trying to make a gesture that will keep her deadlocked in weekend dating relationship and maintaining the status quo. 

I see this as highly manipulative and maybe even somewhat creepy. 

She may not be able to articulate that into words very well, but I suspect that she sees it much as I do - that you are making a grand gesture from behind the 8-ball to manipulate her into remaining in the wheel-spinning, going-nowhere, status quo. 

She is wise and within her right to decline this. 

I think you would be wise to return the ring and see if you can get the dog back for your kids. 

The GF reached her limit and is gone. The dog on the other hand will gladly take you back even though what you did to him was crappy.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

OK, let me say a few things. Yes, I think we were probably a 90% match. We are both VERY picky, and both wanted it to work. Dealing with the other 10% has proven fatal. 

Yes, I am now realizing that I may never marry and it sucks. Why? Because I am extremely picky, and when I get into a relationship with someone and they are not what I want, I just won't commit. My past proves that. The other part that sucks for me is I am now NOT in my prime, so I would get to "settle" most likely. I don't think I catch women's eye online, and has to be in person. To make this worse, I work from home. I don't hang out at clubs, I literally have about zero chance of meeting women. It was by absolute PURE luck that I ran into my ex, and went to a function that I would rarely go to. 

Now I know most here will say, "you just need to go socialize more", but everyone I know is married, and chances just run low for me. I know this sounds like a pity party, but it is just a reality for me. Good women are not online, and if they are, they won't want to meet me. I have tried that game, doesn't work for me. 

My desire is to marry catholic, which slims the heard by a MASSIVE margin. 

I know this all sounds delusional, but I am just being honest. If I settle, I won't be happy. 

I again know people will say it will happen, don't worry about it. Since I was 15yo, I have literally had 3 serious relationships. I am now pushing 40. I drug things WAY out with the mother of my kids because of the kids. I never committed because I didn't have all those feelings I should. 

I am sure this will open up the door for "you need professional help, etc". I just don't know. I just know I am VERY broken right now and probably not thinking right, but it is pretty accurate.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

She will be a TERRIBLE mom to your kids. And frankly her anger issues won’t be solved by a ring. 

And the refusal to sleep at your house is a big red flag. You avoided marriage because you didn’t want to put up with a constant stream of negativity from her. Marriage won’t make her happy. And adding a child will make her more tense not happier. 





bobsmith said:


> 1. Living location. She would mumble on about being away from her small catholic community that she has grown up in, moving with me to my large acreage that is a 15min drive for her. She is pretty much used to having her family next door. I would ask if she just doesn't want to live there at all, and she would not give me a clear answer.
> 
> 2. Her attitude. She seemed to be mad a LOT. Of course it was not always this way. I think I might have been ignorant, but it was really a turn off and she never really outright said "our wheel spinning is making more mad each day", but the reality is this could be it. We needed to work through that.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bad with your kids and chronically difficult / angry is only 10%. That simply isn’t true and it’s why you didn’t marry her. 




bobsmith said:


> OK, let me say a few things. Yes, I think we were probably a 90% match. We are both VERY picky, and both wanted it to work. Dealing with the other 10% has proven fatal.
> 
> Yes, I am now realizing that I may never marry and it sucks. Why? Because I am extremely picky, and when I get into a relationship with someone and they are not what I want, I just won't commit. My past proves that. The other part that sucks for me is I am now NOT in my prime, so I would get to "settle" most likely. I don't think I catch women's eye online, and has to be in person. To make this worse, I work from home. I don't hang out at clubs, I literally have about zero chance of meeting women. It was by absolute PURE luck that I ran into my ex, and went to a function that I would rarely go to.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The ONLY positive thing you’ve said about her is she is beautiful. That’s it. The only one. 

Her personality and behavior isn’t just bad - but she’s defensive and refuses to discuss it. 

By very picky - you claim to mean things like - has to be Catholic. But Catholics are a quarter of the population in the US. 

Usually VERY PICKY means - will only date beautiful people. And that is why you are so unhappy right now. This isn’t love. It’s the fear she will sleep with someone else. 





bobsmith said:


> Yes, I think there is no question at ALL that I was dragging my feet because of my concerns. In talks with her best friend, she cannot see my ex succeeding in ANY relationship until she works a few things out. I don't consider myself 'afraid of marriage'. Remember I am catholic too and it is part of our upbringing. However, I take that matter seriously and want to know I have a partner for life that will compromise and HELP me when I need it. I can guarantee I have no issue with commitment. Hell, I put a promise ring on a girls finger in high school. I still regret not being mature enough to understand that was real! I just seem to keep attracting women with real issues, and as I get older, about the only thing left is bad apples. So I will probably have to start every new conversation with "hello, because you hit all my marks for physical attraction, I would like to ask about your nutjob points? Why are you crazy?"
> 
> 
> I may just be delusional in thinking we could figure it out if she knew how serious I was about the relationship. She seemed to want the relationship very bad, yet was not willing to sit down and have some hard talks. She always said "it just shouldn't be this hard". I really just wanted to say, "you are right, but because you ***** about every single thing that comes built in to a family, I am questioning your real intention here".
> ...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> Yes, I am now realizing that I may never marry and it sucks. Why? *Because I am extremely picky, and when I get into a relationship with someone and they are not what I want, I just won't commit.* My past proves that. The other part that sucks for me is I am now NOT in my prime, so I would get to "settle" most likely. I don't think I catch women's eye online, and has to be in person. To make this worse, I work from home. I don't hang out at clubs, I literally have about zero chance of meeting women. It was by absolute PURE luck that I ran into my ex, and went to a function that I would rarely go to.


The bold above is, in my opinion, the root of a great number of your issues. You say you're extremely picky. And that when you get into a relationship that isn't what you want, you don't commit. But, clearly, what you do, instead, is stay in the relationship. You don't break up, you don't leave the relationship that isn't working. You stick around, taking what you can get, knowing it isn't really what you want.

Why? Why stay in a relationship that isn't what you want, with someone you apparently realize isn't what you want? 

My guess is because you have some sort of serious co-dependency issues and/or a deep fear of being alone. You grab onto women who meet your criteria - which mostly seem to be looks, rather than actual compatibility - and then you simply don't let go. You'd rather be in a bad relationship than in no relationship at all. And you seem pretty happy to actually settle - just not to actually commit - given you're apparently very concerned about having to potentially settle. That's not healthy, but there you are. 

Oh, and on a related note, the seemingly overwhelming desire to "marry Catholic" you've expressed seems really at odds with your having had a decade-long sexual relationship, and children, with a woman who was never your wife. Is the insistence on a Catholic marriage truly a heartfelt conviction of faith? Or is it a front for your commitment issues?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> OK, let me say a few things. Yes, I think we were probably a 90% match. We are both VERY picky, and both wanted it to work. Dealing with the other 10% has proven fatal.


The problem is that the 10% that did not work sounds awful. As you know you cannot just pick the good and ignore the bad in a person.



bobsmith said:


> Yes, I am now realizing that I may never marry and it sucks. Why? Because I am extremely picky, and when I get into a relationship with someone and they are not what I want, I just won't commit. My past proves that. The other part that sucks for me is I am now NOT in my prime, so I would get to "settle" most likely. I don't think I catch women's eye online, and has to be in person. To make this worse, I work from home. I don't hang out at clubs, I literally have about zero chance of meeting women. It was by absolute PURE luck that I ran into my ex, and went to a function that I would rarely go to.
> 
> Now I know most here will say, "you just need to go socialize more", but everyone I know is married, and chances just run low for me. I know this sounds like a pity party, but it is just a reality for me. Good women are not online, and if they are, they won't want to meet me. I have tried that game, doesn't work for me.
> 
> ...


Yes, you need to socialize and it's not impossible.

If you want to marry a Catholic women, then attend functions give by the local Catholic Churches. 

Also, check out the website meetup.com It's not a dating site. It's a site that has things (meetups) in your area. Here were I live there are hundreds of scheduled meetups. So it's easy to find things that a person likes to do. I even started a couple of meetups.. one for gardening and one for walking (we find great places to walk, like along the river, in the mountain foot hills). I've met a lot of people this way.

Also, there are Catholic dating sites. Why not try one or two of them. I have some friends (women) who did this. Well their husband are my friends now too.


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

Yes. You have had plenty of time and opportunity to commit to this woman and create a family. You have not. She has no reason to believe you really mean it this time. She is doing what is right for her and for her children. If she were my friend, I would counsel her to do the same.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

bobsmith said:


> OK, let me say a few things. Yes, I think we were probably a 90% match. We are both VERY picky, and both wanted it to work. Dealing with the other 10% has proven fatal.
> 
> Yes, I am now realizing that I may never marry and it sucks. Why? Because I am extremely picky, and when I get into a relationship with someone and they are not what I want, I just won't commit. My past proves that. The other part that sucks for me is I am now NOT in my prime, so I would get to "settle" most likely. I don't think I catch women's eye online, and has to be in person. To make this worse, I work from home. I don't hang out at clubs, I literally have about zero chance of meeting women. It was by absolute PURE luck that I ran into my ex, and went to a function that I would rarely go to.
> 
> ...


 I wanted to marry a Christian which in the UK means that 95% of people were out for me. only 5% go to church here. Bearing in mind that far less Christians are male that reduced it to about 1-2% I would guess. I was also picky in that I has a long list of what I wanted in a man. Probably reducing the 1-2% to far far less that 1%. 

However, once I met my husband(on a Christian dating site), I knew within a week that I wanted to marry him. If you didn't know after 1, 2 or 3 years, that says that she wasn't right for you. Had she been the right lady for you, you would have known pretty soon. The fact that after 3-4 years you were still having doubts shows red flags and I think she has made the right decision bearing that in mind. She hasn't got long to wait before she needs to have another child, for a man the urgency isn't the same and she cant afford to wait any longer. If you don't like some things about a partner then end the relationship. You either accept her and her children as they are or you end it. The fact that you are so readily rejecting your faithful dog would be the last nail in the coffin for me, especially as she has said its over.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

OK, I have got a LOT of flack about my dog, so I want to clear something up. Part of some realizations in recent weeks is whether I were to get my ex back, or move on, I HAVE to reduce my stress level, which means simplifying my life. I have WAY too many things going on and it has now cost me ""2"" relationships. 

Bottom line, I LOVE my dog. Enough so that I will only rehome her to someone I know, and ensure her happiness. I do not believe it is selfish. I am so busy that she is always ignored and she deserves more than that. 

I only have my boys 50% of the time and I know they will understand that in order to get some things smoothed out in life, we need to take this step. 

I was not saying that I am getting rid of my dog for my ex, but rather, I have to do this regardless.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobsmith said:


> OK, I have got a LOT of flack about my dog, so I want to clear something up. Part of some realizations in recent weeks is whether I were to get my ex back, or move on, I HAVE to reduce my stress level, which means simplifying my life. I have WAY too many things going on and it has now cost me ""2"" relationships.
> 
> Bottom line, I LOVE my dog. Enough so that I will only rehome her to someone I know, and ensure her happiness. I do not believe it is selfish. I am so busy that she is always ignored and she deserves more than that.
> 
> ...



So things you love and that live you are complexities in your life that you must discard to reduce the stress level and work load and so that they can receive the love and attention they deserve from someone else.

Isn't that basically the same situation as your X???

She wasn't perfect and didn't fit neatly into the slot she was supposed to fulfil and so you did not give her your full commitment (I'm not necessarily saying you were "wrong" in not doing that) and so she needed to go to someone else who could give her the attention she needed.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> So things you love and that live you are complexities in your life that you must discard to reduce the stress level and work load and so that they can receive the love and attention they deserve from someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Right on!


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I’m actually relieved for his X & the dog. Smh...


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> I am sure this will open up the door for "you need professional help, etc". I just don't know. I just know I am VERY broken right now and probably not thinking right, but it is pretty accurate.


And seeking professional help isn't something you desire, isn't an option, or you just don't think you could benefit from it? I'm not sure that is what you are saying, because you follow the statement with "I just don't know." No, you don't ... know, that is. You don't seem to know who you are. That's what counseling can help you do, if you are willing to do the heavy lifting, emotionally speaking. 

If you are so busy you don't have time to give your dog the attention she needs, then by all means find her another home. But if you are so busy you don't even have time for a dog, I doubt you have time to invest in a relationship. 

You need to do some serious introspection, hopefully with a good counselor. Make time to figure yourself out before you venture back out into the dating pool, because you DO have some serious issues going on. Seriously.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

bobsmith said:


> So, may I ask some women, if your sole focus for 3.5yrs, all the way up to 2 weeks ago, has been commitment/family/etc, and finally getting some communications from your man AFTER a breakup, would you still jump ship and move on? She keeps talking about her "maternal clock" because we both wanted a baby, and I know she won't do that without being married. So I am looking at the timeline here. You got your man of 3.5yrs that you 'wanted' a commitment from, and he is now offering, or go with plan B which is to pursue some other relationship that probably would not solidify for quite some time? I mean, how long does it take to 'really' know someone?


To answer this question - yes, absolutely I would jump ship. If you've dated me for 3.5 years and still aren't sure about marrying me, you aren't going to marry me. I have no interest in being a 3, 4, 5 year girlfriend. I want a husband. Telling me you have a ring after I've already gone is all too little too late.



bobsmith said:


> I will say this, I am pretty sure she knows I put my dog up for sale. My dog!!! That I had before I met her, that goes everywhere with me. I have come to realize I would need to make some hard decisions. Whether I make it work with her, or just focus on my new place without her, my dog is just another 'thing to deal with', and I seem to need to reduce some of my chaos.
> 
> I was just hoping if she realized I am willing to get rid of my dog, I might actually have some sincerity in what I'm saying.


After reading your post outlining the issues, it is clear that you and your ex are not compatible, and she is clearly not cut out to be a step mum. You dodged a bullett there.

But then I get to the last paragraph about your dog, and I am completely gobsmacked. How could you? Your beloved dog is "just another thing (thing?!?) to deal with". Wow.

Again, how could you?  That alone, take all the other crap out of the equation, but no way in hell would I go back to someone who could do that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I would want a man who WANTS to marry me, not who is more or less forced to get a ring because finally after 4 years I have given up waiting. Also I believe that a dog is for life, you dont just abandon them. I had 2 dogs when I was a single mum of three for 6 years, I managed to walk them daily and feed them and care for them. 

Plus getting engaged means nothing. I know people who have been engaged for many years. It can be just another way of not committing but of just keeping the other person hoping.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Are you afraid you can't pull someone else that looks as good as her? Sounds like it. 

That 10% is actually pretty big. She doesn't like your boys. That should REALLY concern you. Sad about the dog but I think it will be much happier with a new family who loves it so I'm going to view that as a positive -- for the dog. 

I think she'll be back eventually -- after she lets you dangle on a string for a little while. But I don't think it will work out long-term so having another child is not a good idea. In the meantime, while you're waiting, focus on your sons. And don't get another dog. They're not for you. 

Good luck.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I have had enough time to think about this and probably share a few stupid things I have done. I probably put in the last nails but not sure it matters really because I would think if she really did want me, we would be talking right now. 

I know for damn certain she has another man ALREADY. I know this because I decided to go bold and go to her house trying to just get her to talk. There was another guy there. I can tell you that guy looked younger than her, maybe a bit goofy, and not all that good looking IMO, but I am a guy. This also means said guy probably was in her back pocket for a bit, but can't be sure. 

She is gorgeous, honestly. Men flock to her, so she really has no issue finding men, but she has always told me, she is ULTRA picky. I asked her in email many months ago to detail what she loved about me. There was a LOT there. Pretty much my entire body, the way I look, smell, masculinity, hold her, touch her, strong hands, etc, etc. She liked that she always felt safe with me, and I was a very good father figure in the home, and good with kids. 

I also know her schedule and knew she would be dropping the daughter off somewhere so I went there to try to catch her after the drop off. She actually spotted me and left. NOT COOL for me. 

I blasted over several emails, not really begging, just trying to explain where we went wrong. The really sad thing is, we were a match but both have issues that need to get resolved BEFORE marriage. I have most certainly analyzed mine by now and will take some time to fix. I never outright asked her if she would go to counseling, but hinted on it. She seems to firmly believe if you need that, you are not compatible. This would need resolved. 

Here is the timeline. 12/16 she was pretty much begging me to come over, we needed to figure out our housing situation, etc. I was blocking her because we need to do more than that and she knows this. We need to have a day long talk about LIFE. Somewhere around 12/18 she called to simply say we need to breakup. She said "I really don't want to, but think it is best, what do you think". Like a moron, I just agreed, being a smug dipshi*. Around 12/21 we were exchanging some Xmas gifts we had. I did not txt her until 12/30 NYE, because after this time, I came to realize a LOT of things that I screwed up and just wanted to talk to her about them. Really, honestly, I think I finally GET IT. I really feel bad here but I also know she had issues too and she would have to check those.

Ever since the new year, she has had me on lock down. However, she asked me to stop texting her. I really have tried, but the total chop of communication is just shocking and I can hardly believe it, so I still texted her for days. All she has to do is block me, problem solved. But has not done that. 

Also, when I showed at her house, I honestly figured she would just call the cops, get a contact order, or something, feeling I was nuts, but she just called her brother to call me, and he was pretty reasonable. I apologized and told him I was going through some shi* and still in shock that she could even do this. He agreed that the whole situation seems very odd but his job to referee the deal. 



I think what has really screwed me up in the head here is getting another man, and the deep talks we had and her telling me "I was the one, never dated anyone like me, we were so perfect in bed, etc, etc". She really screwed me up. I honestly don't know if it would have worked with some changes, but I think at least FINALLY opening up about ALL the issues would have been a good test. 

So if she has me on a string, that is a LONG string!!!


Obviously I was doing some dumb shi* for a minute. I don't know what to say other than she drove me a little nuts. Maybe I killed any chance. Maybe there was no chance anyway.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

@bobsmith, breaking up just sucks. It always does. 

I've read your responses on your thread. You have shown her, numerous times over, that you will her freeze her out when you're not happy with something. You ditched her on Thanksgiving; you iced her for days in mid-Dec, you agreed that you should break up before Christmas, and then you went cold on her until NYE. And that is after you have picked up and left, by your own description, many times over the course of your relationship.

As others have noted, it sounds like you guys weren't a great match anyway, but one thing I am convinced of is that partners in a relationship are usually on the same level. She was extreme with anger and you were extreme with your deliberate unavailability. Nothing got resolved. So she resolved it.

It is clear that she has many faults. At the same time, it is an exceedingly poor strategy to shut down and stonewall in the face of conflict. It is a total power-grab and it is just horrible, uncaring behavior. 

Stonewalling in a relationship is a very strong predictor of divorce, according to Gottmann. You might start here when thinking about where you can improve, so you can have healthier relationships in the future.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You currently have THREE threads going on this subject. To begin with, your thoughts/moods are all over the place. This is why you need to get into counseling to sort through the issues.

We are not counselors here. We are total strangers out in cyberspace who are reacting to what you write through our own respective biased lenses. Granted, even a good professional counselor is going to have some bias; they are, after all, human.

So I'll give you my opinion based on what you have written. Rather than running around like a chicken with its head cut off, trying to dissect what she is/is not doing, and being somewhat of a pest (from what you've written about bugging her), I'd suggest you sit back and CALM DOWN. Like NOW. 

She told you she had moved on. Quite obviously, she has. How about you just own the issues that are yours to own? How about you sit still and actually grieve the loss? How about explore your issues, hang-ups, whatever-you-wish-to-call-them with a licensed therapist? Frankly, I'd look for one well versed in codependency. Why? Because you come across as a first-class codie. Take it from someone who has been the poster child for codependency. 

Of course, you can keep posting here and starting a myriad of threads that are basically about the same subject. Your life. Your choice. But it would behoove you to actually take some of the advice here and get help for yourself. Seriously.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Ok let me try to explain my women opinion...

I am a marriage, commitment type of person also. And one of the best things about marriage is knowing that that person choose you, and wants only you. There is nothing better than being with someone who not only loves you, but chooses you and knows they only want you and feels lucky and privileged to have you. 

There is nothing worse than being with someone who doesn’t know if they want to be with you. Who isn’t sure. Who needs everything to be perfect before they can think about marriage. What an insecure feeling that would give me. This girl Knew she wanted you, but you didn’t know after 3.5 years... I don’t blame her for walking away, I personally would of walked away sooner. Because you may be handsome and good with kids and have great sex, but if you don’t know if you want to be with me, if you don’t feel lucky to have me like I feel lucky to have you, then nothing else matters. 

And that’s the difference between men and women. I would rather be with that younger, goofy looking guy if he makes me feel amazing, and knows he is lucky to have me then with the perfect guy who is passive and unsure.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Stop being a wuss and women may start choosing you instead.

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet?


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

It is truly amazing what a couple good talks with a mutual friend will do! She helped me SO much! I get it! I did not commit because though my heart really wanted it, my brain knew some things were off. Bottom line, this process had to happen. Just did. She has some serious issues, desiring certain people AND a certain lifestyle, etc. Bottom line is she put herself on a pedestal, while telling per partner she is looking for an "equal". Though I seem to be able to attract attractive women, I just have more than a shallow pond to offer, and want that in return. 

I had to take a BIG step back and look at a short relationship I had with a doctor. She was VERY into me, and extremely smart. We hit it off instantly and she loved my engineering brain. Probably could have been making medical devices together my now. Gave seminars on pharma meds for like $50k a pop on top of her day job. It was shocking how much she wined and dined me, and adored my demeanor as well. This was the type of woman you could dream of. If I was truly a shallow person, I would have jumped in knowing there was a million dollar house, and fun toys waiting for me. However, I simply was not attracted enough to her, and the "sugar mama" thing came to mind, BUT this woman was SO thoughtful! Like my back was injured one day, and she brought me a special spine realignment device. She cared! And I returned that thoughtfulness!

In the case of my most current ex, I think she was just raised in a certain area where the men do all the work, the women raise the babies and stay at home, the the men watch the kids while the women go play. 

Bottom line, I gotta move on! I just want more. I want more depth than I received.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobsmith said:


> I decided to go bold and go to her house trying to just get her to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These things would be considered harassment and stalking in certain jurisdictions.

Keep this up and you may have the cops paying you a visit.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> There is nothing worse than being with someone who doesn’t know if they want to be with you. Who isn’t sure. Who needs everything to be perfect before they can think about marriage. What an insecure feeling that would give me. This girl Knew she wanted you, but you didn’t know after 3.5 years... I don’t blame her for walking away, I personally would of walked away sooner. Because you may be handsome and good with kids and have great sex, but if you don’t know if you want to be with me, if you don’t feel lucky to have me like I feel lucky to have you, then nothing else matters.
> 
> And that’s the difference between men and women. I would rather be with that younger, goofy looking guy if he makes me feel amazing, and knows he is lucky to have me then with the perfect guy who is passive and unsure.


^^This. So much this.



bobsmith said:


> It is truly amazing what a couple good talks with a mutual friend will do! She helped me SO much! I get it! I did not commit because though my heart really wanted it, my brain knew some things were off. Bottom line, this process had to happen. Just did. She has some serious issues, ...


And you should have communicated these things to her, instead of stalling and stringing her along for 3.5 years. She's just wasted 3.5 years of her life on a relationship that went nowhere. The reality is, she likely checked out long before December.

Once a woman is done, she's done.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> It is truly amazing what a couple good talks with a mutual friend will do! She helped me SO much! I get it!


Nope, sorry, you DON'T get it. You really, truly don't.

You have mentioned having several talks with women in your posts. I'm all for bouncing ideas off friends. But each time you talk with these gal pals, you report back the same thing: They helped you realize your ex has/had serious issues. Why do you need to have other people validate what you feel? Aren't you confident enough in yourself to assess what you felt about your ex? Frankly, going to her house, speaking to her brother, and sending her several emails doesn't exactly sound like you are a guy who knew it was over and that she wasn't a match for you. Then you have all these threads going on trying to figure out the shortcomings/issues of your ex ....

HOW ABOUT YOUR ISSUES, BOB?????? I mean, c'mon man ... why the heck do you persist on taking someone else's inventory? They are HER issues, not yours. 

I'm going to get really blunt here. I doubt it will do any good, because you come across as someone who has several scripts running in your head; none of them particularly indicative of someone any where close to being self-aware or emotionally mature enough to have a decent long-term relationship. Why do these gal pals have to assure you that your assumptions are correct? Can't you trust your own instincts? And how about you strap on a pair and face what is wrong with you? Oh, yeah, that's right ... your are just dandy; it's your ex who is the train wreck.



bobsmith said:


> She has some serious issues, *desiring certain people AND a certain lifestyle*, etc.


Uh, excuse me, but weren't you the one saying how picky YOU are? I assume that when you stated that you meant that you are looking for a certain woman to compliment a certain lifestyle that you have in mind.

I'm not even going to touch your mentioning the wealthy doctor who you just weren't attracted to. No boy toy for you. Because you are so much deeper. Fine. How about really digging down into the deepness you profess to have and figure out why you kept pestering your ex after she told you to bug off? How about plumbing the depths of your psyche to figure out your issue(s) with commitment before trashing your former partner? Because I assure you, a lot of the crap that went down had to do with you and only you.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

Dude, she's done. I know it feels better to put it all on her, but it's not her. You wouldn't commit. She was good enough for 3.5 years, with all the flaws you are coming up with concerning her now? You are re-writing history to suit your own needs.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Appreciate the responses. No, honestly I am NOT totally trying to pin all this on her. I think this honestly was as one pointed out where the water level found its own level. I think we both have some issue. I just spent 4hrs with my best friend talking about MY issues, because I am trying to attack them head on. I know I have them. I honestly have to find a way to stop making the same mistakes, and trust me, I AM working on this! 

I have already turned down one nice date, and pretty much told her I was not emotionally ready and not looking to hurt anyone. I honestly don't want anyone caught in my web, until I full understand it. 

With the best info I have, it seems that when I FINALLY find someone that I honestly feel good about, I block them, or I start having a LOT of self imagine problems, because I don't want to lose them. This includes avoiding taking my shirt off because I might have a few lbs on me, avoiding them of I don't look my best, you know, all the classic total crazy symptoms. 

But with women I know are not a match for, I could care none. So I seem to be a grand master of ruining my own party. 



I am having to figure ALL this **** out right now. 

Did just find out from my best friend tonight that my ex was actually crying to his wife 1.5yrs ago that she wanted me to commit. He could have told me that before now!!!!! I feel like a complete assole! I needed to either put a ring on it or end it. 

Enjoy the shi%show


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> I am having to figure ALL this **** out right now.
> 
> Did just find out from my best friend tonight that my ex was actually crying to his wife 1.5yrs ago that she wanted me to commit. He could have told me that before now!!!!! I feel like a complete assole! I needed to either put a ring on it or end it.


So you are going to figure this all out by yourself. I assume you are going to counsel yourself, along with getting advice from the women with whom you confer. Okay. So your bf let you know, via his wife, that your ex wanted a commitment over a year ago and he should have let you in on it way back then. Thus, it is somehow his responsibility, in a roundabout way, to have informed you so you could have committed or not. Okay. 

Dude, you are in dire need of professional counseling. We can offer advice to the best of our limited abilities, but that is all we can do. Sadly, you sound so much like my late husband. Snapped his fingers ... now he had it figured out! Snapped his fingers ... now he had the addiction under control! Snapped his fingers ... now that he talked it out with his bf he had the necessary insight(s) to address the issues he needed to face. Sorry. It isn't that way. You can't just figure all of it out right now. It took years for you to get to this. Just like we can't actually help you, neither can your friends. You are just deluding yourself. Sad, sad, sad. 

But it's your life. Your choices.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The good: You didn’t marry someone who treats your kids badly and would be a bad step mother
The bad: You chose not to force the issue of all her bad behavior because you knew she might end it





bobsmith said:


> Appreciate the responses. No, honestly I am NOT totally trying to pin all this on her. I think this honestly was as one pointed out where the water level found its own level. I think we both have some issue. I just spent 4hrs with my best friend talking about MY issues, because I am trying to attack them head on. I know I have them. I honestly have to find a way to stop making the same mistakes, and trust me, I AM working on this!
> 
> I have already turned down one nice date, and pretty much told her I was not emotionally ready and not looking to hurt anyone. I honestly don't want anyone caught in my web, until I full understand it.
> 
> ...


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

You know, I am trying to figure out what happened to the users on the site. Really not sure, but pretty much every post, when my thread or not, is pretty negative. 

The fact that I am on here trying to figure things out means I am trying to do 'something'. Doing nothing means sitting on the couch saying "piss on her, she was no good, I will get a better one". I am trying to figure out my own issues right now. However, I remain pretty confident with more than my own input that we were both at fault here. the bigger concern IMO is her, because she won't even openly admit that she has a problem! Her entire family, friends, etc, all have identified the drinking problem followed my emotional outburts when drinking. 

Do I want to pitch it all on her? NO. We were both at fault here. 

Yes, I need more than friendly counsel. Got it!


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

MEM2020 said:


> The good: You didn’t marry someone who treats your kids badly and would be a bad step mother
> The bad: You chose not to force the issue of all her bad behavior because you knew she might end it


Yeah, I will pretty much go along with that. Argue as I might want to, this is probably the gist of it. I buckled under the opportunity of a very pretty woman, and did not honor my character. 

Thought I did start forcing the bad behavior thus the reason I started leaving her azz more and more at home alone. I was getting damn tired of it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> Yeah, I will pretty much go along with that. Argue as I might want to, this is probably the gist of it. I buckled under the opportunity of a very pretty woman, and did not honor my character.
> 
> Thought *I did start forcing the bad behavior *thus the reason I started leaving her azz more and more at home alone. I was getting damn tired of it.


What do you mean by your forcing the bad behavior?


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> What do you mean by your forcing the bad behavior?


Poor wording. I simply meant that I was no longer just tolerating her behavior and taking it on the chin. I just started leaving her when she did it. Then there was crying followed by "why would you do that", etc. But nothing was ever resolved.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

bobsmith said:


> You know, I am trying to figure out what happened to the users on the site. Really not sure, but pretty much every post, when my thread or not, is pretty negative.
> 
> The fact that I am on here trying to figure things out means I am trying to do 'something'. Doing nothing means *sitting on the couch saying "piss on her, she was no good, I will get a better one".* I am trying to figure out my own issues right now. However, I remain pretty confident with more than my own input that we were both at fault here. the bigger concern IMO is her, because she won't even openly admit that she has a problem! Her entire family, friends, etc, all have identified the drinking problem followed my emotional outburts when drinking.
> 
> ...


Do some of the bolded too, but you _really_ do need to get counseling.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Bob, your biggest issue wasn't that you weren't a total doormat when she was upset. Your issue was that she kept throwing up red flags the size of China and yet you kept going back to her. You should thank your lucky stars that she moved on and won't pay you the time of day because it's preventing you from marrying a woman you're not even sure it would work out with(!). You said you were picky and trying your best all these years not to commit until you were sure but here you sit, just days ago willing to throw all reason out the window to take a chance on this woman. What a huge contradiction to your morals!

You have got to be able to let go when a woman proves to you that a marriage will at best be difficult and require counseling from the get-go. You wasted 3.5 years on her and 10 on a previous girlfriend. You could have easily found someone you were attracted to, head-over-heels in love with, and who accepted your boys and dog in 13.5 years. But instead you wallowed and justified staying with someone who wasn't meeting your needs, wasn't even willing to communicate with you about it or work on it, and look where you are today! 

You need to dig deep and make a huge attitude adjustment before you get back into the dating scene if you want to find a real, lasting marriage. You need to accept that change to yourself comes FIRST! Big issues need to be fully addressed before you tie the knot. And if your partner isn't willing to work on it before commitment? Cut your losses and run. 

Lots of good advice has been given to you about where to find Catholic single women your age. They're out there but you will NEVER EVER find them while you are wasting your time trying to change Miss Wrong into Mrs. Right. Here's something many people don't know about dating - it opens up once you hit your 40s. There are tons of good, successful, beautiful women and not enough men. Don't believe me? Check out the podcast Strangers and listen to the episode "Love Hurts". It's all about a woman dating in her 40s and how all the good men she met but didn't have a relationship with were snatched up by someone else within weeks of hitting the dating field. The women are out there. You just have to put a little bit of effort into finding them. 

You can't keep basing your decisions on this unfounded fear that no one would want you or that there can't possibly be someone out there for you once you reach a certain age. Tons of good people made the same mistakes as you or found out that their first marriage was a lie and had to end it through no fault of their own. Keep an open mind and get to know some of these women a little before deciding they're all crazy or broken like your ex.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I hear that and I have already started the process to finding a therapist to talk to. I have to do it. I am still stuck in "she will come back" land, and convinced it can be fixed. Actually, I know it could, but she would actually have to work on herself as well, and that probably won't happen. Due to that reality check, my brain is telling me what I need to do, but my heart won't hear it. 

It is sad to run into someone, have an instant and profound spark with, all the marbles line up, then things start to unwind. When we were together as a couple, we had a blast. We were both so affectionate and that probably hooked me faster than anything because my previous SO deprived me of that for many years. 

I know we both badly wanted to marry, wanted kids, etc, etc. But things like her drinking, or really just her outbursts during that, were driving a wedge between us. 

I know I am very diluted right now in trying to understand if what this woman told me was even the truth. In my mind, you don't tell a guy they are "the one" and "LOVE how we make love", yet unwilling to work out differences. 

When we met, it was absolutely electric, and I knew that I loved her only weeks after meeting her. When I told her that on the porch that night, she cried and admitted she felt the same. I failed to propel the relationship further and keep the ball going. I have had to learn that you cannot have a relationship with just bad experiences. We need more of the good ones. I was always busy and I missed critical times to lock us together and make her willing to work for us. 

I wish I could copy/paste all the good things she said about me via email. Loved (supposedly) my masculinity, how I am with kids, holding her, kissing her (told me our lips were made for each other), loved our sex, how I smelled, my strong hands, my protective instincts, my cooking, my ability to fix anything, etc, etc. She has dated several guys and I sort of bought it.

It really is hard to swallow! I could run a long list of things I loved about her too. I am sure this all old news on the forums. For all these reasons, I am still just in shock she walked away without even a serious talk. I practically begged her just for a closure talk. She wanted to chop it clean. 

At least in my past relationships, I felt like I had put all my cards on the table, but on this one, I feel I am still left with a full hand I never played, and she knows it. 

I know my brain is telling me to accept it but my heart just loves VERY hard. I was SO attached to her little girl and we used to walk outside together holding hands to take the dog out. She walked with me to take the trash out! I kissed that girl good night, every night I was there. 

I can only hope that someday, later in life, I run into that girl and we can reunite at some level. I miss her SO much! 

I know it is easy on forums to just say "suck it up", but it just is not that easy for me.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Don't get mired down in your feelings. Feelings come and go. 

Also, when a couple first gets together, it's completely normal for everything to seem "electric." Again, that has to do with feelings. Love is not always a feeling. Love is A CHOICE. Consider the difference.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> I know it is easy on forums to just say "suck it up", but it just is not that easy for me.


And it's easy for everyone else?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't think she's through with you. I think she'll be back at some point and the circus will start all over again -- unless you get help in the meantime that enables you to see your part in this. And take a break from women while you're getting help. You REALLY need to get your head on straight before you jump into another relationship.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Openminded said:


> I don't think she's through with you.


What makes you say that? Curious

yes, I am VERY aware that just getting back together is terminal. However, she fought for me for 3.5yrs through some VERY hard roads. 

What I have just realized is the stresses of life got to us! We were hit with issue after issue. Her car fails, I total mine, kids are sick, her custody battle that I fought for her, etc, etc. It was all mounting up. 

I am pretty sure her little boyfriend is younger, with no real attachment, which makes the transition so much easier for her. With him, there is no need for a bigger house right now. He can just move in. No kids, so that leaves her door open to cranking out her own kids. All things which makes me wonder why she did 3.5yrs with me.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> All things which makes me wonder why she did 3.5yrs with me.


Why not figure out why YOU spent 3.5 years with her?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

bobsmith said:


> Did just find out from my best friend tonight that my ex was actually crying to his wife 1.5yrs ago that she wanted me to commit. He could have told me that before now!!!!! I feel like a complete assole! I needed to either put a ring on it or end it.


You honestly had no idea that your ex wanted you to commit to her before this? Really?


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Oh I did, but when it goes to the level of crying to other people about it, I needed to pick a road and use it. 


BELIEVE ME, the light bulbs just started turning on yesterday, FINALLY! As I start to run the real inventory of the situation, I am realizing, my biggest mistakes were staying in WAY too long, and not listening to myself that I did not want to marry her. 

I cannot lie, I am right now deeply attached to her, but signing on with her as-is would be a living nightmare. I drug my feet hoping she would change and things would get better. They just didn't. I could literally write a laundry list of things that were wrong at this point. WTF is wrong with me??????!!!!!

I think I was just dumbfounded because this woman could be SO sweet, always touching me, just drop dead gorgeous, and always telling me things she loved about me. It was such an ego boost, and I just loved it. We both loved family, kids, and wanted marriage. There was a LOT there that was right. 

But I have come to realize a LOT of things. Well, maybe not realize just now, which is something I have to figure out about myself. I seem to get to 90% and figure I can work out the other 10% somehow. 

Bottom line, I can see, and have to work on my issues. She won't really even admit she has any. For those reasons, I feel extremely sorry for her, or maybe her new partner. I can only see this going 1 of 2 ways. She gets knocked up and marries the guy and lives out a sad dysfunctional relationship, or someone marries her finally, has a kid, then things unravel, and the big D happens. 

She was married once for 5min. Another man left her when she was 6mo preg. All men seem to distance themselves from her, which is EXACTLY what I was sort of doing. I ran from her 'crazy'. When you run from her, she gets very needy, desiring that contact, but not willing to examine why men run in the first place. 

I stepped in at a sort of rougher point in her life. She was fighting 2 jobs, had a baby. I helped raise that child, was constantly fixing stuff for her, cars, house, custody issues, drove with her out of town to drop her child off, yada, yada. 

I realized in Nov and Dec, I was drowning!!! I made excuses not to see her because I didn't want the drama! I am absolutely heart broken right now, but I pretty much screwed myself by staying in and becoming WAY too attached when I knew things were amiss.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The crazier someone is, the more electric your experience with them.


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