# I've yet to see a situation like ours



## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

I have searched and researched and fine tooth combed the Web and have not found a situation to relate to ours. I desperately need help.
My husband is the man people look to ground their moral compass. His values are solid and he is well respected and revered by friends, family and business associates. That's why it was a blindside... to everyone he knows... when he cheated on me.
He came home from an overnight business meeting. He was accompanied by other managers he knows well in our region that he's worked with for years. One of these was a woman he's worked with for 8 years. I knew they had a professional relationship but were also familiar with each others' personal lives from general conversations. I knew this woman. She solicited my advice as a mother often. What I didn't know was that she was regularly inappropriate in conversation, with many people, including my husband. Apparently, I now know, she prides herself on being very skilled at oral sex and offers it to most anyone. Well, on this trip she made the offer to my husband who accepted. 
Here is the weird part... she disgusts him. She is not moral or respectable. She smells of cat urine, is a whiner, a hypochondriac, a terrible parent, is promiscuous. .. all of the things that he abhors. She is not at all physically attractive and definitely doesn't have a beautiful body by standard definition. Also... our relationship is WONDERFUL. We love each other abundantly. Our sex life is great, we both love our jobs, our home and our children. We're financially comfortable and happy. We have analyzed and over thought what this infidelity could be a result of. What was missing? What was he needing and we can't find a thing. 
The good news is he came in the house from the trip and fell to pieces and confessed. He felt horrendous. We sent the children away and had a volatile heart wrenching weekend. He sat the kids (teenagers 17 and 18) down and confessed and begged forgiveness. He was humble and contrite. 
It has been a hell of a month and a half. I hated what he did and wanted to wake up from the nightmare because I knew HE doesn't do that. He's the first man I've ever blindly trusted in my life. Not him. He wouldn't. He couldn't. But I loved him. Watching him hurt from what he did broke my heart. But I couldn't console him. He did this. 
I forgave him. It took me over a month of reading (the letter I read in here finally did it about forgiving a $10k debt -thanks doc) and counseling and trying to define forgiveness but I do forgive him. But ... where I'm at now is... if he didn't cheat for a reason.... we weren't missing anything. .. he loved loved loved his life.... and she wasn't irresistible. ... then WHY? How will I ever feel secure if he doesn't know why it happened this time? If we weren't important enough for him to refuse the offer in that moment how will I ever feel secure again? That another moment won't arise he can't refuse?
Just an FYI he has soul searched and his only answer is that he knew her before he met me and that was always who she was. The filthy talking inappropriate woman. He didn't stop it after me because he always knew it would never lead anywhere because A) He would never and B) Especially with her. And finally that he was simply curious... curious if she was really THAT good at it. 
That's it. But if that's it... why wasn't I more important?
Help me. Help me. Help me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

He did it because he wanted to.

Don't over complicate it.

I am sorry you are here. You didn't deserve this.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Most people that mess with married people are trashy. You now have a husband that rolled in the trash too. So, does that change who he is? Does this fact change who you are? 

Does it really matter why he did it? I think it matters more that he did it period! Stop analyzing the why and really focus on what this does to your family. Have you two gone to therapy. It seems you two want to rugs weep this awful truth. It's awful! There has been deep damage and there needs to be healing.

You need professional help. This will eat at you and rightfully so. Infidelity poisons and destroys marriages because it destroys TRUST!


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

Yes. We were already going regularly to a wonderful family counselor (did I mention both teenagers are girls?) And we got right in to her. It was actually April 1. She was so shocked by it that she was sure it was an April Fools Joke until she saw is in person. We have been as often as we can get in there sometimes multiple times in a week. And he has started seeing someone individually. 
We are pro therapy for sure.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> He did it because he wanted to.
> 
> Don't over complicate it.
> 
> ...


His individual counselor said that. Because he wanted to. That is a bitter pill to swallow. 
Thank you. I'm sorry too.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FWIW, it sounds like he is doing the right things; IC, MC, he confessed to you and family, etc. That is a positive.

What about electronic devices? Do you have passwords to everything?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So has he quit the job yet?

If she's married, expose to her husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Well, I'm glad you are in therapy. I'm glad you realize he did it because he wanted to and he could. Very very selfish on his part. 

Looks like he was vulnerable and fell into temptation. Does your marriage have poor boundaries?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I agree with Gus on exposure. Get some of those boundaries up and affair proof your marriage now that you know your husband is human and slips into temptation 
Ike the mere mortal he is. 

What consequences has he had for cheating on you?


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

MissSummer said:


> His individual counselor said that. Because he wanted to. That is a bitter pill to swallow.
> Thank you. I'm sorry too.


You will drive yourself crazy if you try to find a fault in your relationship that explains why he did this, why you weren't enough, why he didn't think of you before he did it, etc. But he did do it and it's not the other woman's fault or your fault that he did. She knew he was married but he is the one that is married to you. The good news is he told you about it and is showing remorse, that is more than a lot cheaters do. He was willing to go through all the hell that he knew it would it cause by telling you. 

Does he still work with this woman? Has he told her he cannot be in contact with her? What is he doing besides therapy to show you he deeply regrets it and it will never happen again?


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

MissSummer said:


> The filthy talking inappropriate woman. He didn't stop it after me because he always knew it would never lead anywhere because A) He would never and B) Especially with her. *And finally that he was simply curious... curious if she was really THAT good at it.*


That may be it, he was just curious and wanted to experience something different. Lots of good people have cheated, why? Because they aren't perfect and in a moment of selfishness did something that they will forever regret. 




MissSummer said:


> That's it. But if that's it... why wasn't I more important?Help me. Help me. Help me.


It was something in him that made him do this, not something in you, you must understand that. I am sorry that he is the first man you ever fully trusted and he let you down. I don't trust easily, either, and when I did and it was broken, it could have easily driven me insane. Part of my issue was that I trusted what he appeared to be vs. what he actually was, do you think that's a possibility with your husband?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Your situation is not unique MissSummer. You had a loving, devoted husband that had everything he could possibly want and yet he is very human and fell into temptation. 

Lots of us had that too. Sadly lots of us had weak husbands that fell into temptation at a vulnerable time in their lives. Instead of holding on to their moral compass they became selfish and tossed everything to the wind for a cheap thrill...your husband's was "he wanted to know if she was that great at giving a bj "

Now, he has to deal with the consequences of his selfish act and how this is going to impact the wife whose trust he betrayed over a cheap thrill. Not only that, but the ripple effect this will have on his two girls as well. 

your husband has a lot of work to do.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MissSummer said:


> Yes. We were already going regularly to a wonderful family counselor (did I mention both teenagers are girls?) And we got right in to her. It was actually April 1. She was so shocked by it that she was sure it was an April Fools Joke until she saw is in person. We have been as often as we can get in there sometimes multiple times in a week. And he has started seeing someone individually.
> We are pro therapy for sure.


So you had a perfect marriage and a perfect family, yet you were in therapy as a family?

Why? Why would you do this? It would be like a well person taking medication.

And why is a senior executive allowed to go on business trips stinking of cat wee?

Weird.Was she blackmailing someone? ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> And why is a senior executive allowed to go on business trips stinking of cat wee?


You're just taking that cat comment personally, aren't you? :wink2:


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

We sometimes try to find reasons as a way to excuse.

So your husband supposedly disgusts this woman who freely offers BJ's to all and sundry, stinks to high heaven and is an all round terrible person etc etc.

All the things you list and the whys and yet ignore the most basic reasons. He's a man, she's a woman and he/she wanted to do. 

Very easy. Simple biological imperative as well as for a fleeting second feeling like an alpha male having a woman freely offer herself, he may have felt bad afterwards but that's what happens when you think with your trousers because if he had used his head, hell even sniffed her would he have allowed her to come anywhere near him?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lilac23 said:


> You're just taking that cat comment personally, aren't you? :wink2:


I was just imagining receiving such acts of oral carnal congress from a cat lady. And feeling a bit sick TBH! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my Lady.

This is not your fault and you should stop beating yourself to see what is "missing" from you and your Marriage. 
Your Husband is the only one to blame and he missed to remember that he is married and have a good wife and two children.

Nice to hear your Husband works with your therapist but I see one problem. If he countinue to work with this woman you will never be able to heal yourself. He needs to have a No Contact with this person or switch jobs or something like that. 

Is this woman Married ? Expose her to her Husband. 

Your Husband is moving forward so easly. I think he got no idea what he done to you and your family. To him it was only a blowjob and it is not a big deal. 

Stay strong.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> FWIW, it sounds like he is doing the right things; IC, MC, he confessed to you and family, etc. That is a positive.
> 
> What about electronic devices? Do you have passwords to everything?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Yes. I had it all before this happened. To everything. Even his Amazon. He's clean as a whistle. Never even a slight inappropriate flirt or conversation. ... well besides this obviously.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

What kind of answer to the question, "why?" would satisfy you?


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> So has he quit the job yet?
> 
> If she's married, expose to her husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She quit. I freaked out and scared the holy Moses out of her so she walked off the job and blocked us from all social media. 

I threatened to expose her to her live in man. But once she quit and left us alone so I decided to not stir up more drama than we already had going on.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Please explain why she smells like cat urine .

Do the other people on the trip know what happened?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Miss Summer,

Why is your family in therapy if all is so perfect? I get the feeling, you are not living in reality. Your WH is a man with all the usual faults and weaknesses and yes he is totally responsible for what he has done. You feeling sorry for him and his pain, I find that strange, he is the one who F'ed up, let him sort it out.

i think you may well still be in denial, trying to rationalise things, perhaps your relationship wasn't perfect after all? Don't be so quick to sweep this under the rug.
This may haunt you for a long time, you have two options

1. forgive and move on with him in therapy
2. think long and hard about the reality of your relationship, is your marriage all it is cracked up to be and can you trust your WH again?

All the best on getting over this whichever way you go.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

MissSummer said:


> My husband is the man people look to ground their moral compass.* His values are solid and he is well respected and revered by friends, family and business associates. *That's why it was a blindside... to everyone he knows... when he cheated on me...
> 
> But ... where I'm at now is... if he didn't cheat for a reason.... we weren't missing anything. .. he loved loved loved his life.... and she wasn't irresistible. ... then* WHY?*
> 
> Help me. Help me. Help me.


MS,

Welcome aboard the Crazy Train...

Your way over thinking it. First, take your H down from that high pedestal. He was/is never that "moral, solid, revered" man you elevated him to. He is a flawed human just like everyone else. 

Why? He wanted to. Did you ask him how long he thought about it or talk with the OW prior to actually having OSex. Further, the way you describe the actual act... _as if it was done in an elevator stopped between floors. _ Hardly, they were together all night "Overnight Business Trip". Did they kiss and fondle each other all night too.

You want Why? You need the Truth... all of it. The why will shortly follow.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm probably in the minority here, but this seems to be one of those rare instances where a good person made a truly horrible mistake and is owning up to it. The fact that he confessed immediately speaks volumes (and to your daughters as well).

As for "why?", I can only imagine that it was a combination of knowing this woman for many years, working with her, listening to her, knowing what kind of person she is and essentially falling prey to her advances (which may have been going on for years, for all you know).

As for "why HER?" (as she sounds quite unattractive) chalk it up to confidence being sexy. If it's well-known that she's good at giving oral sex and something she's proud of and brags about, then everything else is rather unimportant. At the very least, understand that she was being used, plain and simple. That doesn't make the act any better, of course, but there should be SOME solace in that fact. She's a ho and she was treated as such.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I agree with Aine. Take him off his pedestal. ...his values aren't rock solid, his moral compass isn't as great as you thought, and he is the kind of guy to do this.

He's flawed like everyone else. And the fact that nothing was missing and he still did it tells me he's at risk to do it again. 

He probably figured he could do it, beg forgiveness and get away with it. Which he did. 

I'm not suggesting you have to leave, it sounds like you guys are making a real effort to get past it. 

I'm only suggesting you open your eyes regarding what you're dealing with, and think about what your boundaries are what you're willing to forgive and communicate that to him. 

As in, hb....i will forgive this one time but if it happens again you're gone. 

Someone like this needs that boundary, or he'll be "curious" again knowing he can beg forgiveness and run to counseling.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree with Aine. * Take him off his pedestal. *...his values aren't rock solid, his moral compass isn't as great as you thought, and he is the kind of guy to do this.
> 
> *He probably figured he could do it, beg forgiveness and get away with it.* Which he did.


I agree with the first bolded part, but not the second (in as much as we don't know him IRL, of course).

Barring the potential of his indiscretion being made public by somebody else, I can't see why anybody would consciously do something like this with the forethought to own up to it afterwards.

Here's the thing - when this type of thing happens and we hear about it on TAM, we encourage owning up to it. We malign those who hide this sort of thing, lie about it, try to get away with it, etc. Here we have somebody who did actually own up to it, not only to his wife, but to his daughters (!!! Not sure why one would do that, but...) and he's still be painted with the same brush as every other cheater out there - which isn't undeserved, infidelity is infidelity, but all the same. He's done the things he should do in a case like this.

I'm not at all saying he should just be forgiven (like I said, I agree with the first bolded part), but he IS miles ahead of so many other cheaters, IMO.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

alexm said:


> I'm not at all saying he should just be forgiven (like I said, I agree with the first bolded part), *but he IS miles ahead of so many other cheaters*, IMO.


The Silver Lining inside the mouth of a Great White?

I was cheated on and lied to for years... Cynic. Before we put Mr. MS back up on that pedestal because he confessed... Maybe he knew his actions were seen by others and would get back to his wife? 

1 in a 1000.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

And it is back to the "Boys will be Boys" excuse. Men [more often] get the pass on infidelity. They do it for the sex, not for love, rationale.

The women who would deliver a nefarious BJ? Savaged and unforgiven.

I see this and do not like it. 

Justice does not wrap itself evenly onto Infidelity.

I do accept inequality. Begrudgingly, as one must.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

RWB said:


> The Silver Lining inside the mouth of a Great White?
> 
> I was cheated on and lied to for years... Cynic. Before we put Mr. MS back up on that pedestal because he confessed... Maybe he knew his actions were seen by others and would get back to his wife?
> 
> 1 in a 1000.


I'm not saying he should be instantly forgiven because he's done the "right" thing of his own accord, but some merit should be afforded him for doing so, IMO.

He still screwed up, massively, and the reasons why are largely unimportant. However owning up to it, immediately, is a step in the right direction, and one that most people do not do.

Silver lining - yes. But not one that should instantly grant forgiveness, either.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

alexm said:


> I agree with the first bolded part, but not the second (in as much as we don't know him IRL, of course).
> 
> Barring the potential of his indiscretion being made public by somebody else, I can't see why anybody would consciously do something like this with the forethought to own up to it afterwards.
> 
> ...



I completely agree that him owning up to it is a big positive, and you're right that we don't know him. But think about it: he was curious. That's it. He fvcked up his family because he was curious. 

Not because they'd been sexless, not because he was craving emotional intimacy, not because the marriage was in a bad place.

Because he was curious. 

This is the kind of guy that figures he'll beg forgiveness, and maybe he figured his great marriage could take the hit.

I remember the poster Adriana, whose hb had an affair even though they had a great marriage. She felt that in the back of his mind he thought that their marriage was so good that she wouldn't possibly end it over an affair.

As to why he confessed? Who knows. Maybe it was to alleviate his own guilt, maybe he knew she'd find out, or maybe he felt it was the right thing to do. And she did deserve to know. 

But this guy is at very high risk do this again the next time he's curious, especially if he thinks he can run home and beg forgiveness immediately. 

That's why I think it's a good idea to tell him that the reason she's still there is because he confessed but if it happens again that's it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

As FSJ and others have said, don't make this complicated. I once asked my SO why he thought some men cheat, even just once (one of his old acquaintances was a serial cheat) and he said the simple answer was, "Variety." That's it. Your husband did it because he could and it was on a plate. 

He's not the great guy you make him out to be. He's a human being, just like anyone else. He's an adult, responsible for his own choices.

If you are working towards forgiveness, you will need to stand by that forgiveness. The relationship will never be the same. Many things will appear false, because his actions have made and will make you question... Everything. Some people just can't live like that, even after giving it an honest try.

All the best.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Weird.Was she blackmailing someone? ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or will she...


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Miss Summer,

Actually your story is kind of common, 

Your H had allowed this woman to engage in inappropriate conversations with him which was an EA or very close to an EA. This is a textbook setup for an affair.

Then something happened "out of the blue", no that's a lie it took months for the right moment to occur but it could also have happened 6 months ago.

Also get a lie detector test for your H, waywards lie and minimize, if they say it was just oral it was much more. 

Tamat


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

By the way just because the OP feels the OW is ugly and nasty this doesn't mean her husband feels the same way about her. 

My wife will comment about a woman on the street "Isn't she ugly?"

Whist I was thinking "She's pretty!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MissSummer said:


> She quit. I freaked out and scared the holy Moses out of her so she walked off the job and blocked us from all social media.
> 
> *I threatened to expose her to her live in man. But once she quit and left us alone so I decided to not stir up more drama than we already had going on.*


He deserves to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> By the way just because the OP feels the OW is ugly and nasty this doesn't mean her husband feels the same way about her.
> 
> *My wife will comment about a woman on the street "Isn't she ugly?"*
> 
> Whist I was thinking "She's pretty!"


That's jealousy and insecurity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> That's jealousy and insecurity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She also points out really classically pretty women and says: "She is pretty!"

But I do not find them attractive at all. 

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I just fancy women who are different?

Hang on. Smells of cat pee? Well maybe I was too judgemental before.... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

OP

don't get so caught up in the why part. 

the word "curious" has been thrown out there, and for sure that could be part of it. I would offer that all people screw up.

its real simple. the opportunity was there. maybe he had a couple drinks and wasn't using his best judgement. the old saying "seemed like a good idea at the time" comes to mind.

what i think is relevant in all this...is how he has behaved towards you and others in the past...using that as a better indicator of his moral standing.

But maybe even more important is how he is handling this now. others have pointed out that he immediately confessed and showed remorse speaks volumes about him. He could have kept his mouth shut and chances are you would have never known.

if you want to feel a little better....keep reading in the CWI section and you will find countless stories of cheaters who lied and hid the truth from their spouses...even when caught red handed....then blame shifted and did anything and every thing to avoid accepting any responsibility whatsoever for their actions. You could be in a much worse situation.

I am very sorry you are here. I hope you can find peace, just know that he screwed up royally, anyone and everyone is capable of it.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

Good question. IDK. I just feel like I need to grab on to something to explain it so I can feel sure it won't happen again. Or know that it's possible that it could happen again. Then I can make decisions at that point.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

He immediately felt awful and shared with another person on the trip he is close to and trusts. 

She has cats, and eight children. Cleanliness is not a priority in her life.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> Well, I'm glad you are in therapy. I'm glad you realize he did it because he wanted to and he could. Very very selfish on his part.
> 
> Looks like he was vulnerable and fell into temptation. Does your marriage have poor boundaries?


I don't think so. That's part of what made me trust him. He's always been serious about not putting himself in compromising situations. We aren't friends with the opposite sex, we do not put ourselves in situations with the opposite sex without the other one, we don't counsel with the opposite sex...


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I agree with Gus on exposure. Get some of those boundaries up and affair proof your marriage now that you know your husband is human and slips into temptation
> Ike the mere mortal he is.
> 
> What consequences has he had for cheating on you?


He will not drink, even a sip, on business trips. It's been extremely volatile and he's been patient and contrite through it all. He wants me to feel better and stresses it wasn't me. Again, she's no longer with the company but his job would have been a goner which says a lot because it's a good job. He is telling me every detail I want to know. He updates me constantly on his day and what he's doing. We didn't sleep in the same bed for a while, his relationship with our oldest daughter is severely bruised, he basically checks my pulse before every decision including seeing friends to make sure I'm not having a hard day so he can be there for me first, I am in a small office that is very relaxed so every chance he gets he is spending time with me. He genuinely wants me to feel better.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> So you had a perfect marriage and a perfect family, yet you were in therapy as a family?
> 
> Why? Why would you do this? It would be like a well person taking medication.
> 
> ...


Again. Two teenage daughters. We were in family counseling not for repair but to maintain balance. He's their stepdad but the only dad they've had so he's their dad. Still we use a trained objective hand to give us balance. I respectfully disagree with your analogy.

He is a Regional Sales Rep, she was a store manager. I don't think she reeks, but over the years he's complained of catching a whiff here and there....


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

aine said:


> Miss Summer,
> 
> Why is your family in therapy if all is so perfect? I get the feeling, you are not living in reality. Your WH is a man with all the usual faults and weaknesses and yes he is totally responsible for what he has done. You feeling sorry for him and his pain, I find that strange, he is the one who F'ed up, let him sort it out.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your input. I will re-analyze but I assure you I have ... we have... again and again. So do you see my frustration? It's true. We had a GREAT marriage and life. It wasn't perfect. I would be a fool to say so. I can't stand his video games, he doesn't like the way I chew... if that's what you mean... but we loved each other fully and completely. 

We are in family counseling. We have 2 teen daughters and appreciate a professional to help us sort through parenting and being a strong solid family core. The girls have had fleeting issues that all girls go through and counseling has helped us all stay ahead of that. That's all. 

I love that he's a man that appreciates the wisdom of a third party.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

RWB said:


> MS,
> 
> Welcome aboard the Crazy Train...
> 
> ...


Good questions... also some of the reasons I have been able to get over it. No... like I said she prides herself on this act. She offered, he accepted and there was not a kiss, no groping, he said he didn't even touch her head while she did it. He said he was immediately disgusted and wanted it over. I only believe him because he shared EVERY detail, even the extremely painful ones that echo in my head. He finished, went straight to the bathroom, cried and stared at himself in the mirror, came out and she was ready with purse on shoulder at the door and asked if he was ready to go meet the rest of the group. As if nothing happened....

Great analogy... that is exactly how it went down.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

alexm said:


> I'm probably in the minority here, but this seems to be one of those rare instances where a good person made a truly horrible mistake and is owning up to it. The fact that he confessed immediately speaks volumes (and to your daughters as well).
> 
> As for "why?", I can only imagine that it was a combination of knowing this woman for many years, working with her, listening to her, knowing what kind of person she is and essentially falling prey to her advances (which may have been going on for years, for all you know).
> 
> As for "why HER?" (as she sounds quite unattractive) chalk it up to confidence being sexy. If it's well-known that she's good at giving oral sex and something she's proud of and brags about, then everything else is rather unimportant. At the very least, understand that she was being used, plain and simple. That doesn't make the act any better, of course, but there should be SOME solace in that fact. She's a ho and she was treated as such.


#1 I love your profile pic. 
#2 Thank you, you have nailed everything on the head I just need to reach acceptance. 
#3 Just thank you.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

What people really need to understand is sometimes affairs have nothing to do with the marriage and everything to do with the individual when faced with opportunities.

This is why I say affair proofing a marriage is a pipe dream, and laugh when people say that affairs happen because of some failing in the betrayed spouse or in the marriage.

Affairs happen because people make choices. That's it. He was given an opportunity, and he took it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Satya said:


> He's not the great guy you make him out to be. He's a human being, just like anyone else. He's an adult, responsible for his own choices.


Why can't someone be both? 

Is the bar for "great guy" so high that any character flaw is sufficient to disqualify? If so, then the world is suffering from an absolute and complete dearth of great guys. Or gals, for that matter. 

Just as she has to understand that her husband is imperfect, we have to understand that imperfection comes with being human. The true measure of our quality isn't in the mistakes we make, but our actions in recovering from them. This man, by her account, is doing the things that we would hope all spouses would do under the circumstances. At this point, he is to be positively regarded as meeting expectations post-failure. 

If we're to flay every cheating spouse in the public square as being a wretched human, they why have this forum at all? 

As for you, OP, you will never regain that level of trust in your husband again. Ever. Nor should you - it was inappropriate to begin with. Not because of any particular flaw in your partner, but because of the human condition. He may still be a good man, perhaps even overall above average - but you also now know that he has a weakness to which you must be forever vigilant. That is a realistic view of your, and probably every marriage.


----------



## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

alexm said:


> I agree with the first bolded part, but not the second (in as much as we don't know him IRL, of course).
> 
> Barring the potential of his indiscretion being made public by somebody else, I can't see why anybody would consciously do something like this with the forethought to own up to it afterwards.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I feel like you know us. You all are right... he's not perfect. He is grieving the shock too. He thought he was better than this and found out he's human. I appreciate all of your kind words... I do not take for granted all of his work so far and the work he's willing to put in moving forward. You guys have made me feel better....

Also, I really don't think he's going to see this as something he can do again. The reason he's started seeing an individual counselor is to ensure he's solid and going to never compromise our marriage again. I just want to feel the security again...


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> By the way just because the OP feels the OW is ugly and nasty this doesn't mean her husband feels the same way about her.
> 
> My wife will comment about a woman on the street "Isn't she ugly?"
> 
> ...


All of the things I listed about her are his words (and others that know her) not mine.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MissSummer said:


> I just want to feel the security again...


I don't suspect you ever will. 

Every time you see a movie with infidelity, you'll remember. Every time it comes up in social conversation, when friends comment on the horror of hearing about a friend's now broken marriage. When you hear a song on the radio or hear about yet another power marriage lost to a cheating spouse. 

Oh, sure, it will fade with time. It will no longer be acute. You won't think about it every waking moment. One day, weeks might go by without it coming to the front of your mind. But that complete, nonchalant secure feeling that you never questioned?

That's gone. Because it was an illusion from day one.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MissSummer said:


> I don't think so. That's part of what made me trust him. He's always been serious about not putting himself in compromising situations. We aren't friends with the opposite sex, we do not put ourselves in situations with the opposite sex without the other one, we don't counsel with the opposite sex...


Then how does he know she tells everyone she is up for oral and other promiscuous activities?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Ok, BUUUUUT...

You still haven't explained why she smells like cat urine. Have you personally smelled her offensive "tomcat spray" smell? Or is it an office joke?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, BUUUUUT...
> 
> You still haven't explained why she smells like cat urine. Have you personally smelled her offensive "tomcat spray" smell? Or is it an office joke?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She did right here.



MissSummer said:


> All of the things I listed about her *are his words* (and others that know her) not mine.


Thanks, I was going to ask you this after reading the OP and the further responses. This is one of the most COMMON diversions on this board. Make the spouse feel safe about someone then it turns out this is the one you had inappropriate conversations with or an emotional or a physical affair. This is the phenomena called "affairing down" where people cheat with others who do not fit anything they have ever shared with their significant other. From lesser looks to affair partners who live in basements and are felons. Yes, both of these examples are in threads on this website.

Look, if you keep asking why you are going to make the reconciliation harder. I bet if there was an actual survey of posters, it would be in the low 10% who had a legitimate answer to any questions. Of those, probably only 1% actually BELIEVED the reason given by the spouse. Trust me, you'll be chasing your tail for the rest of your life, trying to get the answer YOU want to hear.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

MissSummer said:


> I have searched and researched and fine tooth combed the Web and have not found a situation to relate to ours. I desperately need help.
> My husband is the man people look to ground their moral compass. His values are solid and he is well respected and revered by friends, family and business associates. That's why it was a blindside... to everyone he knows... when he cheated on me.
> He came home from an overnight business meeting. He was accompanied by other managers he knows well in our region that he's worked with for years. One of these was a woman he's worked with for 8 years. I knew they had a professional relationship but were also familiar with each others' personal lives from general conversations. I knew this woman. She solicited my advice as a mother often. What I didn't know was that she was regularly inappropriate in conversation, with many people, including my husband. Apparently, I now know, *she prides herself on being very skilled at oral sex and offers it to most anyone.* Well, on this trip she made the offer to my husband who accepted.
> Here is the weird part... *she disgusts him. She is not moral or respectable. She smells of cat urine, is a whiner, a hypochondriac, a terrible parent, is promiscuous*. .. all of the things that he abhors. She is not at all physically attractive and definitely doesn't have a beautiful body by standard definition. Also... our relationship is WONDERFUL. We love each other abundantly. Our sex life is great, we both love our jobs, our home and our children. We're financially comfortable and happy. We have analyzed and over thought what this infidelity could be a result of. What was missing? What was he needing and we can't find a thing.


So your husbands large company (offsite meeting, many managers etc) has a Senior Executive that is an ugly, whining, hypochondriac who smells of cat urine and is known to freely offers BJs to people so that they know how good she is at them.

(BTW - her promiscuity is entirely her own business)

I'm not sure if the smell here is cat urine as it seems a little fishy to say the least. I'm struggling to believe at this point.



MissSummer said:


> The good news is he came in the house from the trip and fell to pieces and confessed. He felt horrendous. We sent the children away and had a volatile heart wrenching weekend. He sat the kids (teenagers 17 and 18) down and confessed and begged forgiveness. He was humble and contrite.]/QUOTE]
> 
> Ignoring the fact that the children had been sent away and then sat down ....
> 
> ...


----------



## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

MissSummer said:


> Again. Two teenage daughters. We were in family counseling not for repair but to maintain balance. He's their stepdad but the only dad they've had so he's their dad. Still we use a trained objective hand to give us balance. I respectfully disagree with your analogy.
> 
> He is a Regional Sales Rep, she was a store manager. I don't think she reeks, but over the years he's complained of catching a whiff here and there....


In the original she smelt of cat urine. I'm sure that once or twice in my career I've been sweaty but that doesn't mean that BO would be a fair description.



MissSummer said:


> I appreciate your input. I will re-analyze but I assure you I have ... we have... again and again. So do you see my frustration? It's true. We had a GREAT marriage and life. It wasn't perfect. I would be a fool to say so. I can't stand his video games, he doesn't like the way I chew... if that's what you mean... but we loved each other fully and completely.
> 
> We are in family counseling. We have 2 teen daughters and appreciate a professional to help us sort through parenting and being a strong solid family core. The girls have had fleeting issues that all girls go through and counseling has helped us all stay ahead of that. That's all.
> 
> I love that he's a man that appreciates the wisdom of a third party.


I still think it's really weird that a wonderful happy family with a GREAT marriage who love each other fully and completely needs a 3rd party to tell them how to behave as a regular thing.

Most teens have more than fleeting issues, and most parents deal with that themselves, it's part of being a parent. Most people do not need counseling to tell them how to deal with the day to day stuff. That almost suggests an inability to make good personal decisions without help.



MissSummer said:


> Good questions... also some of the reasons I have been able to get over it. No... like I said she prides herself on this act. She offered, he accepted and there was not a kiss, no groping, he said he didn't even touch her head while she did it. He said he was immediately disgusted and wanted it over. I only believe him because he shared EVERY detail, even the extremely painful ones that echo in my head. He finished, went straight to the bathroom, cried and stared at himself in the mirror, came out and she was ready with purse on shoulder at the door and asked if he was ready to go meet the rest of the group. As if nothing happened....


So let me try and get my head around this. 

She gave him a BJ, with nothing returned, and then he jumped off the bed and cried in the bathroom and when he came out she was stood ready with her purse and calmly asked if he was ready to go and meet the group? 

No way. Even a hooker would have said "Fvck you then" and stormed out.



MissSummer said:


> All of the things I listed about her are his words (and others that know her) not mine.


Well it seems that some things like "once had an aroma" became "smells of cat urine". 



phillybeffandswiss said:


> Then how does he know she tells everyone she is up for oral and other promiscuous activities?


Agreed.

If she lost her job over this and he didn't then she is in a layers office right now working out her solid financial future as they take the company to the cleaners.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

WonkyNinja said:


> In the original she smelt of cat urine. I'm sure that once or twice in my career I've been sweaty but that doesn't mean that BO would be a fair description.
> 
> *She said she smelled of cat pee. So what? Her husband worked with her and that's what he said.*
> 
> ...


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Then how does he know she tells everyone she is up for oral and other promiscuous activities?


He's the store rep. Her store was in his territory. He would be at her store once a week and was around her before they were both in these positions. She talks like this to co-workers, customers, friends, whoever. This is the way she defines herself. He said that allowing that behavior to continue around or with him was the mistake he won't make again. His worst mistake was that he thought it was - for lack of a better term - harmless because he was confident he would never go there and just shrugged the conversation off rather than telling her to stop. This is one of the things he said he knows obviously he did wrong.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

WonkyNinja said:


> So your husbands large company (offsite meeting, many managers etc) has a Senior Executive that is an ugly, whining, hypochondriac who smells of cat urine and is known to freely offers BJs to people so that they know how good she is at them.
> 
> (BTW - her promiscuity is entirely her own business)
> 
> ...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

MissSummer said:


> I have searched and researched and fine tooth combed the Web and have not found a situation to relate to ours. I desperately need help.
> My husband is the man people look to ground their moral compass. His values are solid and he is well respected and revered by friends, family and business associates. That's why it was a blindside... to everyone he knows... when he cheated on me.
> He came home from an overnight business meeting. He was accompanied by other managers he knows well in our region that he's worked with for years. One of these was a woman he's worked with for 8 years. I knew they had a professional relationship but were also familiar with each others' personal lives from general conversations. I knew this woman. She solicited my advice as a mother often. What I didn't know was that she was regularly inappropriate in conversation, with many people, including my husband. Apparently, I now know, she prides herself on being very skilled at oral sex and offers it to most anyone. Well, on this trip she made the offer to my husband who accepted.
> Here is the weird part... she disgusts him. She is not moral or respectable. She smells of cat urine, is a whiner, a hypochondriac, a terrible parent, is promiscuous. .. all of the things that he abhors. She is not at all physically attractive and definitely doesn't have a beautiful body by standard definition. Also... our relationship is WONDERFUL. We love each other abundantly. Our sex life is great, we both love our jobs, our home and our children. We're financially comfortable and happy. We have analyzed and over thought what this infidelity could be a result of. What was missing? What was he needing and we can't find a thing.
> ...


First, the obvious question that doesn't seem to have been asked....

Did he receive oral sex from you? To completion?

Not that this would justify anything, but it might help explain.

If I were ever to cheat on my wife, a no stings attached bj to completion from someone who prides herself on her skills would be the hardest to resist. If I didn't get that at home, even harder.

I wouldn't do it, but it would tempt me more than anything else I can think of.


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## MissSummer (May 27, 2016)

Buddy400 said:


> First, the obvious question that doesn't seem to have been asked....
> 
> Did he receive oral sex from you? To completion?
> 
> ...


The answer is no. I don't seem to have her skillset. I will leave it at that. I have worried about the same.... 

Thank you for the insight.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Buddy400 said:


> If I were ever to cheat on my wife, a no stings attached bj to completion from someone who prides herself on her skills would be the hardest to resist. If I didn't get that at home, even harder.
> 
> I wouldn't do it, but it would tempt me more than anything else I can think of.


I didn't want to go there, but ^^^ that.

I'm 99.9% positive I could overcome that sort of temptation, but if anything were to make me THINK about it, even for a split second, it'd be the no-strings-attached offer of a one-way, non-reciprocal sex act that I did not, nor ever have a hope of, getting at home.

Does NOT justify it in ANY way, shape or form, though, of course. What OP does or does not do with/to her husband is her own personal choice and freedom, and one should not have to suffer an indignity like this as a result. The spouse can either accept it or divorce, there's no in-between.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MissSummer said:


> He's the store rep. Her store was in his territory. He would be at her store once a week and was around her before they were both in these positions. She talks like this to co-workers, customers, friends, whoever. This is the way she defines herself. He said that allowing that behavior to continue around or with him was the mistake he won't make again. His worst mistake was that he thought it was - for lack of a better term - harmless because he was confident he would never go there and just shrugged the conversation off rather than telling her to stop. This is one of the things he said he knows obviously he did wrong.


Okay, well the first thing you need to do is ACCEPT he is at fault. She didn't force, drug, lie or suddenly catch him in a compromising position like a drinking night. She didn't coerce him into these conversations, nor is her promiscuity a disease he unwittingly caught. He made a bad choice, not a mistake.


Second, he knew and he kept engaging in these conversations. Yes, I understand sales reps have to be open and friendly, but discussing personal details and sex lives is not being friendly. Oh and make sure you understand, HE ENJOYED those conversations or you wouldn't be here.

I'm telling you these thing NOW so, you can deal with the feelings early instead of 10-15 years down the road when things don't add up.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

MissSummer said:


> We are not a "deeply religious" household but as part of our healing process have started reading a daily devotional and praying together to build a new foundation with God at the core. Maybe that was what we are missing.


The things that struck me were how you went so overboard to describe what a wonderful person your husband is and then every description of the other woman was terrible, even to questioning her personal hygiene. It struck me that you were trying to fault her in this instance and allow your husband to remain blameless.

She had, and has, no responsibility to you whatsoever. Whether or not she is promiscuous has no relevance to any part of you or your husbands lives. This was 100% on him.

I do not believe that a happily married man with no thoughts other than his family on being away for *one* evening and approached by someone he says he finds disgusting and offered a BJ just says "OK".

I don't believe that he was so upset that he ran into the bathroom crying over what he had done, although conveniently waited until she had finished to do so. If he felt that bad he would have said "Stop, this is wrong I just can't do this". That behavior would be incredibly insulting to whoever he had just been intimate with and she would have left in a hurry, but he told you that she just waited and then suggested they then go to the meeting. Sorry, I think he is whitewashing the whole thing.



MissSummer said:


> Struggling to believe it? If I were going to make something up, I would have been MUCH more creative.


I didn't intend to call you a liar but I think your husband's story is totally unbelievable and I think he is hiding behind the facade of being so hurt and disgusted by what he has done to avoid any real consequences. I don't believe that he is the wonderful hero you portray. I notice that he is asking for forgiveness (i.e. make him feel better and maintain his own image) rather than giving apologies and admitting that he was at fault.



MissSummer said:


> Struggling to believe it? If I were going to make something up, I would have been MUCH more creative.
> 
> Your statements and critiquing of our parenting choices contradict. You're saying sending the children away for the weekend when everything was raw and fresh and we needed to work through the harsh stuff was a bad idea? Then said we should protect them? Hmmm... I sent them to grandma's so they didn't have to see the raw anger. When they got home I said he sat them down confessed and begged forgiveness because they KNEW something was going on. They're teenagers. This is a lesson for them in forgiveness. I NEVER said he discussed details. He did not.


I do understand sending them away but your post said that he confessed all to them. I am glad they didn't get any details as they don't need them. The first thing he needs to do is apologize to them for hurting you and the family and then work out how to move on. 

Once he has started to prove that then he can think about their forgiveness. It seemed that his first requirement is to get forgiveness from everyone. No, make your apologies, prove you mean it and then earn their forgiveness.

If they are taught that they need to immediately forgive his discretions then they are being setup to accept that treatment in their own future lives. 



MissSummer said:


> Apparently I came across in my post as an idiot somehow because that would be just silly. FURTHERMORE, we are struggling with our oldest BECAUSE I've been too careful to not burden them with my pain and grief. She is concerned that everything went back to normal too soon because my screaming, sobbing, curling in a ball and wanting to die - his pleading and consoling and crying and wanting to die.... has all been in private.
> 
> Not sure your motive... but I'm good on your input. Have a wonderful weekend!


I can understand her being concerned that everything went back to normal too soon. Much of it should be in private but when she sees her mother sobbing and crying then father asking for her forgiveness and then you are upset by how much *he* is hurting she is justified in her concern for you.

So to summarize. I feel so sorry for you. I do believe your story, I don't believe your husband. 

Maybe you should forgive him but that is for you to determine when you are satisfied that he is truly apologetic and has earned your trust again then you, and your daughters can forgive him. He doesn't get to determine when that time will be either for you or your daughters, nor does he get to just confess then ask for it.


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

So now we know the why. As stated above, it still doesn't make it right. Maybe he's online reading about how great BJ's are, maybe he thinks "how can guys go out on first dates get them, and my wife doesn't?" Yeah, if it was that important to him, he should have done the honorable thing and divorced. But he was weak.

About how can you trust him... To put it bluntly, he had an affair. One does not just recover from an affair just because you admit to it. He needs to build that trust over time - perhaps your research should point you in the direction of learning about how to recover from an affair. It is said to take 2-5 years.

From what you describe, you seem like the type of couple that could still have a successful, recovered marriage.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow. Nobody would EVER suggest a cheating wife might have done it because her husband doesn't please her sexually and that might explain it.

I shouldn't be surprised though. That's TAM.....where mens' sex lives are in their own special class.

I'm looking forward to where cheating wives are explained by husband sucking in bed.


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

Are you saying that the man's cheating had nothing to do with what he felt he wanted to experience? I suspect that if the other woman had offered PIV instead, he would have turned it down.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Wow. Nobody would EVER suggest a cheating wife might have done it because her husband doesn't please her sexually and that might explain it.


I have, on quite a few occasions, by both genders. My personal favorite was RDMU. He couldn't get into 50 Shades Bondage and people were suggesting he should cater to his wife's sexual needs and that's why she strayed. 

Like this one may end up for me, I eventually left the thread because the betrayed started agreeing and assessing themselves unwarranted self blame.


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Like this one may end up for me, I eventually left the thread because the betrayed started agreeing and assessing themselves unwarranted self blame.


Blame and rationale are two different things. I don't think anyone is blaming OP, and she isn't blaming herself. But it does explain why he might have been tempted.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

MissSummer said:


> I have searched and researched and fine tooth combed the Web and have not found a situation to relate to ours. I desperately need help.
> My husband is the man people look to ground their moral compass. His values are solid and he is well respected and revered by friends, family and business associates. That's why it was a blindside... to everyone he knows... when he cheated on me.
> He came home from an overnight business meeting. He was accompanied by other managers he knows well in our region that he's worked with for years. One of these was a woman he's worked with for 8 years. I knew they had a professional relationship but were also familiar with each others' personal lives from general conversations. I knew this woman. She solicited my advice as a mother often. What I didn't know was that she was regularly inappropriate in conversation, with many people, including my husband. Apparently, I now know, she prides herself on being very skilled at oral sex and offers it to most anyone. Well, on this trip she made the offer to my husband who accepted.
> Here is the weird part... she disgusts him. She is not moral or respectable. She smells of cat urine, is a whiner, a hypochondriac, a terrible parent, is promiscuous. .. all of the things that he abhors. She is not at all physically attractive and definitely doesn't have a beautiful body by standard definition. Also... our relationship is WONDERFUL. We love each other abundantly. Our sex life is great, we both love our jobs, our home and our children. We're financially comfortable and happy. We have analyzed and over thought what this infidelity could be a result of. What was missing? What was he needing and we can't find a thing.
> ...


If it was only a bj then it's bad but I've heard of MUCH worse. He immediately confessed to you and there was no emotional element to it. It's kind of similar to if he went to one of those massage parlors and got a happy ending. You have to understand that him getting that from her had absolutely nothing to do with you. Men don't attach love to sex and especially a bj like a lot of women do. I would guess that at least 50% of most men, good men even, would probably have done the same thing. You shouldn't let him just get away with it but his actions show that you do have a good guy. The fact that he came home and even admitted it put's him about at least 90% of most men. The reality is is that you married a really great guy that had a hard time resisting extreme temptation.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

lifeistooshort said:


> Wow. Nobody would EVER suggest a cheating wife might have done it because her husband doesn't please her sexually and that might explain it.
> 
> I shouldn't be surprised though. That's TAM.....where mens' sex lives are in their own special class.
> 
> I'm looking forward to where cheating wives are explained by husband sucking in bed.


I have, and I would. It's not a one-gender-only reason.

I have a female friend who is extremely frustrated at her husbands 2-minutes-or-less standard in bed. She won't cheat, but she's most definitely sexually frustrated and not happy about it. She'd rather divorce, first. They also have other problems (which probably tie in very nicely to the bad sex). I've suggested TAM to her, but message boards aren't her thing. Maybe she's lurked here, though!

But if she were a woman of lesser character, she'd be out getting sexually fulfilled by now. She needs it BAD, and I feel sorry for her


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You do not know what she is doing at this point after the suggestion. I said "may," which obviously means I do not know if she is going to blame herself. Rationale and blame are two separate things which are constantly tied together in these situations. 

Also, I am unclear as to what she means. No, her answer wasn't clear enough for me. Is it "no I don't give oral" or "no I don't give oral to completion." Yes, HUGE difference. Still, neither makes this so called rationale okay. Sexless marriage, I might sort of kind a believe the suggestion. Elevating your personal sex act to "must have" status doesn't work for me.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Wow. Nobody would EVER suggest a cheating wife might have done it because her husband doesn't please her sexually and that might explain it.


I would. In a heartbeat. Because, as much as we might want it to not be so, this is often why people fail in sexually monogamous relationships.

And by my count, I'm the third one on the same page to say so.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Honestly, I think more than a BJ happened, he just said oral to cover his butt. 
There is more to this story than he is telling you. 
Maybe he was being blackmailed so decided to confess. 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

@MissSummer How long have you been married to him? Was he married before?


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

WonkyNinja said:


> So your husbands large company (offsite meeting, many managers etc) has a Senior Executive that is an ugly, whining, hypochondriac who smells of cat urine and is known to freely offers BJs to people so that they know how good she is at them.
> 
> (BTW - her promiscuity is entirely her own business)
> 
> ...


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Wow. Nobody would EVER suggest a cheating wife might have done it because her husband doesn't please her sexually and that might explain it.
> 
> I shouldn't be surprised though. That's TAM.....where mens' sex lives are in their own special class.
> 
> I'm looking forward to where cheating wives are explained by husband sucking in bed.


I have actually seen lots of women cheaters blame the husband's skills. Same with OM and women friends of the cheater.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Have him take a polygraph. I doubt his confession was self motivated and I doubt this was his first rodeo.
He completed the act,right? Guilt and maintaining an erection are not compatible.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

MissSummer said:


> His individual counselor said that. Because he wanted to. That is a bitter pill to swallow.
> Thank you. I'm sorry too.


I've only read this far in your thread so others may have said this already.

He probably, at the spur of the moment wanted to experience what this world class expert was like. At that moment it didn't mean anything to him. So why not?

And then, afterwards, he realized what he'd done.

So I'd say yes, he did it because he wanted to.

The question is, what do YOU want to do. I'd advise not making a final decision instantly. Let this simmer for a little while.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I completely agree that him owning up to it is a big positive, and you're right that we don't know him. But think about it: he was curious. That's it. He fvcked up his family because he was curious.
> 
> Not because they'd been sexless, not because he was craving emotional intimacy, not because the marriage was in a bad place.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of this (I've trimmed it down from the original) but I don't agree about the figuring that he'd beg forgiveness. It would be more likely that he'd not say anything and it would never have been discovered.

So I think he confessed because he did feel guilty.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

MissSummer said:


> He's the store rep. Her store was in his territory. He would be at her store once a week and was around her before they were both in these positions. She talks like this to co-workers, customers, friends, whoever. This is the way she defines herself. He said that allowing that behavior to continue around or with him was the mistake he won't make again. His worst mistake was that he thought it was - for lack of a better term - harmless because he was confident he would never go there and just shrugged the conversation off rather than telling her to stop. This is one of the things he said he knows obviously he did wrong.


I'm glad he realizes he had very poor boundaries in regards to this woman. That is a good start. He is the only one that can avoid other opportunities to get tempted by being very mindful of boundaries in the workplace.

I agree with Marduk in regards to affair proving a marriage as being laughable, but I think in your husband's case poor boundaries allowed temptation in. Most affairs happen because of loose boundaries that allow opportunity to arise. Work places are ideal for these situations as no one wants to be a stick in the mud so to speak.

I'm sorry your daughter is affected by his mistake. He messed up, but he is really trying to fix the mess. The sad truth is that he opened a door that will take a painful long time to close if ever.

I know you love this man, and he does love you and his girls. It's just very hard for him to accept that he thought he would never touch that and low and behold, he fell right into the trap. He needs to forgive himself for thinking he was above being a mere human with weaknesses. We all are weak at some points in our lives. We are not above messing up royally. We are human and therefore curious and imperfect. But boy do we learn and are humbled by our imperfections and strive even harder to not fall again!

I hope your marriage comes out even stronger than before. May you guys truly make it through the tsunami infidelity creates!

He sure does seem to be doing the right things and carrying the heavy load of rebuilding what you guys have and he may loose. Stay strong knowing that your very human husband is honestly trying to fix this awful mess and not rug sweeping the whole sordid mess.

((((Hugs)))))

Bibi


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Maxo said:


> WonkyNinja said:
> 
> 
> > So your husbands large company (offsite meeting, many managers etc) has a Senior Executive that is an ugly, whining, hypochondriac who smells of cat urine and is known to freely offers BJs to people so that they know how good she is at them.
> ...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Maxo said:


> Have him take a polygraph. I doubt his confession was self motivated and I doubt this was his first rodeo.
> He completed the act,right? Guilt and maintaining an erection are not compatible.


Sure they are. The guilt sets in about 6 seconds after the ejaculation.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Festivus said:


> Sure they are. The guilt sets in about 6 seconds after the ejaculation.


 Not real guilt.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Maxo said:
> 
> 
> > I had a teacher when I was 8 or 9 and she always stank as if a whole posse of cats had urinated on her horrible tweed skirt. And she was fairly young.
> ...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I remember when I was a teenager (a long, long time ago) and if my Mom was hauling me to therapy on a regular basis I would have thought that either she was messed up or there was something terribly wrong with me. Nothing wrong with therapy when needed. But, why try to solve a problem that doesn't exist.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

This is why I have discussions about temptation and watching out for doing something they'll regret when traveling. 

OP, I've watched many people who were considered very solid and in decent marriages fall to temptation while in the road. Not an excuse to cheat but if possible I'd ask your H to reduce or eliminate work travel if possible.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

MissSummer said:


> I have searched and researched and fine tooth combed the Web and have not found a situation to relate to ours.


I see what you mean. I've NEVER heard of a spouse having sex with his or her boss on a business trip. Or maybe it was that very unusual way you spouse degrades an affair partner for just such a reaction from you. Again, never heard of it.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but how exactly is your workplace affair situation different from any other one again? I missed that.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Maxo said:
> 
> 
> > I had a teacher when I was 8 or 9 and she always stank as if a whole posse of cats had urinated on her horrible tweed skirt. And she was fairly young.
> ...


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I am scratching my head on several of the responses to this thread. I've read a lot of threads where the wayward is a horrible person and doesn't deserve a second chance. I don't think that's the case here. While its up to her to decide I don't think this is a marriage that should broken up. I also don't think either of them are rugsweeping or whitewashing anything. They are just in the first phases of reconciliation which is always tough. 

For those that don't believe it was just a BJ. I've known more than one woman like the one the OP's husband cheated with. What she describes sounds exactly like them minus the cat urine smell. They are typically very unattractive and overweight, and I can only surmise they do it for the attention from men that wouldn't otherwise pay them any mind. They also don't expect anything in return, because if they did they wouldn't get so many takers for the offer. I honestly don't even think their closest friends know that they do it. I think the OP's husband's story is plausible.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your WH got in on the action. Everyone was doing it and he would actually be a loser in this context if he weren't invited to partake the way everyone else was. I would even wager that he was relieved to have the offer, since he then wasn't rejected by the disgusting woman he knows he would reject in any sane universe.

He got into the zone and pushed your life together to the background while he indulged in the forbidden. This story reminds me of the grooms who have sex with the stripper at the bachelor party and get busted by the brides (these days everyone takes video of everything), who then call off the wedding.

He sounds remorseful, which is a huge step in any case. I think he needs IC to help him get to a place where he will understand that standing out from the crowd is sometimes preferable to going along with it.

Take it one day at a time, OP. Take care of yourself and see how you feel as time goes on. Sometimes broken trust is a dealbreaker; sometimes it isn't. You'll never have complete trust again, so you have to refashion your view of your own marriage now. Let it settle in before you decide to go all in on reconciliation.

He did this because he wanted to. I agree that it's that simple.

Why he wanted to do it in that moment more than he wanted to safeguard his marriage is the broken piece that he needs to fix.

He can't want his marriage and want to do things like that at the same time. We can't have all of the things we want in life. That's just how it is.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Maxo said:


> Not real guilt.


LOL.
You take things way to literal at times.
Seriously, lighten up. 

No, I do not care we are in the CWI forum. Sometimes a joke is good, for everyone, when things become to serious.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I am scratching my head on several of the responses to this thread. I've read a lot of threads where the wayward is a horrible person and doesn't deserve a second chance. I don't think that's the case here. While its up to her to decide I don't think this is a marriage that should broken up. I also don't think either of them are rugsweeping or whitewashing anything. They are just in the first phases of reconciliation which is always tough.


 There are VERY few who have actually said leave him. This weird straw man is starting to bother me. Please go back and read the thread with uncluttered eyes and ignore the alleged TAM mantra some of you are looking for. 

What people are doing is:
Telling her to keep her eyes open.
Be careful of the pitfalls during reconciliation.
Her story is only unique to HER and no one else.
Her husband is not telling the full truth.

Still, this is a far cry from people fully attacking him like other threads or saying leave him.



> For those that don't believe it was just a BJ. I've known more than one woman like the one the OP's husband cheated with. What she describes sounds exactly like them minus the cat urine smell. They are typically very unattractive and overweight, and I can only surmise they do it for the attention from men that wouldn't otherwise pay them any mind. They also don't expect anything in return, because if they did they wouldn't get so many takers for the offer. I honestly don't even think their closest friends know that they do it. I think the OP's husband's story is plausible.


She admits they had personal conversations and we know they were about sex. I do like alte dames explanation the best. This is where the work needs to be done. He should NEVER put himself in this situation again. Also she should ask who else, in the line of managers and coworkers he travels with, received a BJ from this woman. At this point, he may need to cut the group off, if he can't do this he may need to switch jobs.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> There are VERY few who have actually said leave him. This weird straw man is starting to bother me. Please go back and read the thread with uncluttered eyes and ignore the alleged TAM mantra some of you are looking for.


I did read the thread, and my intent was to reply to the posts that I thought were doing more harm than good. I wasn't going to reply to them all individually.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I think his actions are being minimized.
> 
> And I scratch my head at the "it's* just* a bj" mentality. Bj's are powerful; most guys crave them. Besides, penis and ejaculation in the mouth and throat of another woman, is cheating. The orifice doesn't matter. Why is is "less" cheating, if it's in the mouth and not the vagina. You've gotta be kidding me.
> 
> ...


It's the same mentality that says, if you don't have sex often enough with your spouse, then it's somewhat understandable that he cheats. My H flat out told me that he only cheated because I wasn't putting out enough for him. This, while I was taking care of three little ones in the midst of multiple pregnancy losses, breastfeeding and no help other than an occasional babysitter. Yeah, I could have had sex with him more often, but he could have been more understanding toward me and valued me as a partner. It was all about him and his needs, but if he was that unhappy, he should have just left or said we needed counseling or he was going to leave. 

It's taken me almost 10 years to get to the point where I don't blame myself...all the time. It's such a mind f-k to do that to someone. I also can't handle oral for very long - I have a small mouth and a strong gag reflex. The OP has ZERO responsibility for what happened. Her H wanted some strange and then he felt guilty and is now very sorry. Too bad that he didn't think of that before.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I think his actions are being minimized.
> 
> And I scratch my head at the "it's* just* a bj" mentality. Bj's are powerful; most guys crave them. Besides, penis and ejaculation in the mouth and throat of another woman, is cheating. The orifice doesn't matter. Why is is "less" cheating, if it's in the mouth and not the vagina. You've gotta be kidding me.
> 
> ...


Unless she did exactly what the OP's husband did, which was confess and offer full transparency moving forward.

Yes, he is still a cheater.

But how often does this happen?

<1%...


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to say, it was her own urine and she wasn't having that skirt cleaned often enough.
> ...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I did read the thread, and my intent was to reply to the posts that I thought were doing more harm than good. I wasn't going to reply to them all individually.


I didn't say you didn't read the thread. Several of the responses aren't telling her to leave. Telling someone the truth is nor harmful, it's they way it can be stated. Heck, the biggest issue is this allegation that part of the problem may be not enough or no BJs at all, which IMO is ridiculous.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Something I've noticed over the years is that men are typically more stimulated by the thought of sex. Think of 7th graders. Every other thought is about sex - how to get it, what you'd do with it if you did get it, how to attract girls, how to get a girl to give you a BJ, how to act cool, how to get the other guys to think you're cool...IMO, this is part of being a guy. And even if you grow up, being that 7th grader is still part of who you are. So when you get into a sort of frat party environment - and I can't imagine one more likely than a work trip with salespeople and office people - that 12 year old is going to resurface, if a girl is pushing herself on you.

Personally, I don't put one-night stands in the same category as affairs. Glass houses and all that. And he didn't even have a one NIGHT stand - he had a 3-minute encounter, for which he didn't even have to do anything - just stand there.

So while I'm not trying to minimize your pain, I think that in the grand scheme of things, you're in about the best situation possible, meaning that I am pretty sure it's never going to happen again.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Blondilocks said:
> 
> 
> > Cat urine smells very different.
> ...


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> LOL.
> You take things way to literal at times.
> Seriously, lighten up.
> 
> No, I do not care we are in the CWI forum. Sometimes a joke is good, for everyone, when things become to serious.


Too literally.


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## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

turnera said:


> Something I've noticed over the years is that men are typically more stimulated by the thought of sex. Think of 7th graders. Every other thought is about sex - how to get it, what you'd do with it if you did get it, how to attract girls, how to get a girl to give you a BJ, how to act cool, how to get the other guys to think you're cool...IMO, this is part of being a guy. And even if you grow up, being that 7th grader is still part of who you are. So when you get into a sort of frat party environment - and I can't imagine one more likely than a work trip with salespeople and office people - that 12 year old is going to resurface, if a girl is pushing herself on you.
> 
> Personally, I don't put one-night stands in the same category as affairs. Glass houses and all that. And he didn't even have a one NIGHT stand - he had a 3-minute encounter, for which he didn't even have to do anything - just stand there.
> 
> So while I'm not trying to minimize your pain, I think that in the grand scheme of things, you're in about the best situation possible, meaning that I am pretty sure it's never going to happen again.


Girls are the same. Horny as hell. I lived with six in a house in college. Way more fixated on sex than guys,IMO.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Maxo said:


> Girls are the same. Horny as hell. I lived with six in a house in college. Way more fixated on sex than guys,IMO.


Shhhh..... Remember, we have to keep certain gender stereotypes the same.


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## MrsDraper (May 27, 2013)

MissSummer said:


> Yes. We were already going regularly to a wonderful family counselor (did I mention both teenagers are girls?) And we got right in to her. It was actually April 1. She was so shocked by it that she was sure it was an April Fools Joke until she saw is in person. We have been as often as we can get in there sometimes multiple times in a week. And he has started seeing someone individually.
> We are pro therapy for sure.


Are you basically saying that by your appearance people would not think you had marriage issues? I've seen this in several of your posts. 

Many of us look like the attractive, typical American family when we show up for marriage counseling. This kind of disgusts me. Your appearance doesn't matter in this. Why you show up for help is the reason that matters. I've been abused by someone who is highly educated and does not "look" like an abuser. I don't look like someone who should be abused. But it happened. Get over the appearance issue now. 

And I want to say this: Maybe he did like the way she looked and isn't telling you that. Maybe you are the one who doesn't "like" the way she looked. He had sex with her. You didn't. Get over that. Move over the appearance issue. I'm repeating myself several times here. Move over the appearance issue. It happened. You are where you are at. Go one. Appearances don't count when someone violates your marriage - that includes your husband and the other woman.


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## MrsDraper (May 27, 2013)

MissSummer said:


> He will not drink, even a sip, on business trips. It's been extremely volatile and he's been patient and contrite through it all. *He wants me to feel better* and stresses it wasn't me. Again, she's no longer with the company but his job would have been a goner which says a lot because it's a good job. He is telling me every detail I want to know. He updates me constantly on his day and what he's doing. We didn't sleep in the same bed for a while, his relationship with our oldest daughter is severely bruised, he basically checks my pulse before every decision including seeing friends to make sure I'm not having a hard day so he can be there for me first, I am in a small office that is very relaxed so every chance he gets he is spending time with me. He genuinely wants me to feel better.


Maybe he is saying all the right things to make this go away.

Take him off his pedestal. He isn't perfect. Don't make him feel that he is. Things are not "perfect" and will not go back to the way that they were. Make him stop feeling that they even cannot. If he feels that they can, then he will do this again to you. This has to be dealt with. Not only through family counseling but by your response to him. He confessed because he feels guilty but also because he wants this to go away. Only you can tell him that things cannot go away. Make him know this and stop trying to brush it under the rug.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I think this has to do with lust vs love. How do you do both? 

I had a discusion with a woman in an open marriage (she regrets agreeing to it) who was relucted at one point to give up OM. Why ? Because she did have a submissive streak and at times liked to be dominated. But she could not bring herself allow her husband to do this with her as it would effect the equal partner dynamic of the marriage. 

Do some woman have rape fantasies and perhaps like to role play with their husband? How do you broach that subject? 

This in no way excuses the husband and I believe she would be insane to allow herself to be dragged down that road. This is a long term marriage, the husband knew before hand her feelings. If it is that important to him divorce. 

I do know a couple like this one. Thirty years ago she told him if it was that important to him get a hooker, she would pay for it. He has never took her up on the offer and he has never regretted foregoing this activity.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> I am scratching my head on several of the responses to this thread. I've read a lot of threads where the wayward is a horrible person and doesn't deserve a second chance. I don't think that's the case here. While its up to her to decide I don't think this is a marriage that should broken up. I also don't think either of them are rugsweeping or whitewashing anything. They are just in the first phases of reconciliation which is always tough.
> 
> For those that don't believe it was just a BJ. I've known more than one woman like the one the OP's husband cheated with. What she describes sounds exactly like them minus the cat urine smell. They are typically very unattractive and overweight, and I can only surmise they do it for the attention from men that wouldn't otherwise pay them any mind. They also don't expect anything in return, because if they did they wouldn't get so many takers for the offer. I honestly don't even think their closest friends know that they do it. I think the OP's husband's story is plausible.


Yes, everyone makes 'mistakes' but to allow this to get to the stage it did means he wanted it to, period. It says an awful lot about his character and it is worrying that the OP thinks he is a stalwart of integrity etc. Something wrong somewhere, either he is a good actor or she is gullible. Needless to say whichever way the OP wants to play it, her rose coloured glasses must come off and it will require very hard work on the part of the WH to make things right. 
he came clean, bonus points but the rug sweeping and shifting the blame to the OW, the crying and pleading, all smack of someone looking for a 'get out of jail free' card to me, not of man who is remorseful, taking full responsibility and moving forward with that.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Please remember that denial is not just a river in Egypt. Add shock and the 4 stages of grief and you get what MissSummer is drinking right now. 

We know better than to drink that koolaid!

Reality will start sinking in soon enough and she will have to turn the focus towards her and how the relationship has suffered a huge blow. She will have to see the godlike husband she thought she had was never real. Thinking it doesn't make it true. Keep in mind another coping mechanism called projection. The way she describes the OW is horrible. Who would touch that?!!!

Well godlike hubby did, who would touch that after he was used by such a lowlife OW? It's disgusting, and that's why denial and shock are hard to penetrate. I know, I went through that too as my X decided that a prostitute was his second chance at love. Very hard pill to swallow. Very honest, decent, loving, caring man that took a downward spiral at midlife. 

He had no idea the OW was a prostitute...eek She lied to him telling him she was a nurse that worked the graveyard shift. I listened to a voicemail she left him and believe me, you could tell trashy just by her tone. 

He was that naive and yes stupid! This was a highly educated man. Has a PhD and was brought up well. That doesn't change the fact that at midlife he went nuts and seeks women that are easy, young and sleazy now. 

Thank goodness I let my X go real fast as I knew he would not change for the better, two of his siblings failed the midlife change just like him. 

Miss Summer is most certainly in shock! Remember this tsunami has just very recently pulled the carpet from under her! She is trying to save her loved ones first. One of those loved ones being tainted husband. She will eventually shift gears and start looking inward at the damage she has suffered. There's no quick fix to the mess he has put his family through. 

Yes, there is most certainly some rugs weeping going on here!

There is also a good chance that her marriage has an opportunity to survive as well. Let's hope this marriage makes it.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

larry.gray said:


> Blondilocks said:
> 
> 
> > Cat urine smells very different.
> ...


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