# Why do I attract the (apparently) mentally unstable?



## BlueCalcite

This is my first post in this forum after this long thread in the Going Through Divorce forum in which I received lots of valuable advice:

To summarize, after my xw moved out and filed for divorce in June 2013 (without warning), I used financial subpoenas and high-tech file recovery from an old computer of hers to uncover what my counselor described as "some of the most effed up things I've ever seen." Between everything we learned about her, and stories of my own experiences with her, he was convinced that all nine NPD criteria were met and many of the ASPD criteria. It was apparent that I was married to a malignant narcissist and garden-variety sociopath, and I was the classic codependent that fed it for sixteen years. She knew I was learning a lot of her dirty secrets, especially with regard to her finances, and ultimately offered to settle and keep all of her debt in order to avoid being exposed in court. All things considered, I got off easy, despite having to pay her for half the house I worked my butt off to pay off. The divorce was finalized mid-March of this year. Onto dating for the first time since 1997.

I had two dates with a girl in early March, as my divorce was nearing completion, but she wasn't comfortable with me being fresh out of marriage, so that was the end of that. In mid-April I reached out to a girl for the second time on Match. She was actually the very first girl I ever reached out to, originally without response. I loved her profile, and she wasn't far away, so she was easily the girl I was most interested in meeting. This time I had improved my profile and gave her another try, and she responded very favorably. We started e-mailing, then texting, and set up our first date for April 13. April 10 I was to close on my loan to buy my xw out of the house, so I was extremely excited about everything being over, and new great things beginning. Then I went to work on Friday, April 11, and was laid off after eleven years. I couldn't catch a break! I offered to cancel the date, but she insisted that she still wanted to meet. We met, and it went very well, and we got together again a week later, and again, and again. We eventually were seeing each other twice most weeks, including some overnight stays at my place. Within a month of our first date she had a toothbrush, razor, and feminine hygiene products stashed in my bathroom drawer. I noticed that she spent a lot of time sleeping, and often preferred to lounge on the couch instead of doing more active things (she advertised herself as liking to run, but always had an excuse why she didn't run this week). When she was tired, she was very grumpy if I tried to get her to do anything. But she worked the midnight shift as a lab technician, and she attributed her fatigue to that. I couldn't dispute it. It seemed plausible.

I often joked about my dog, because he is on Prozac for anxiety. They thought he had been abused when my xw and I adopted him from a rescue group. I called them his crazy pills, and she thought it was cute, and she adored him. Then one day in May we were in her bedroom and she opened her desk drawer to get something, and I saw a bottle of Prozac with her name on it. I briefly felt like an ass for making light of it with my dog, but she didn't seem offended. She felt obligated to tell me a little bit of the story, because she knew a lot of the story with my xw, and knew I was nervous about that kind of stuff. Her first shortened version of the story was that she had a messed-up childhood because her parents always fought, until she finally convinced them to get divorced when she was sixteen (she's now 32, 5.5 years younger than me). Her dad was often depressed, and she became depressed after the divorce and still has some issues with it. The Prozac helps with it, otherwise she would sleep even more. OK, maybe a simple case of depression. Lots of people with that. Not necessarily a deal-breaker if it's nothing worse than that.

We spent a LOT of time together from May through most of July, hiking, zoos, museums, making plans for camping and road-trips to some neat places. She liked to make me nervous by telling me how much her parents wanted her "married off and making babies". She had a new baby niece and nephew, and she definitely aspired to have one of her own (two, actually). She knew that was my ultimate goal in a relationship, but that I was much too cautious, given my experience with my xw, to be thinking about that stuff this early. She just liked to see me squirm, playfully. She had me meeting her family within a few weeks, which was destined to happen sooner than typical because her mom and step-dad live with her, as does her youngest brother. She bought a house, then had her hours cut, so her parents moved in to help share expenses, and brought her mid-20s unemployed brother with them.

In early July she transferred from one hospital to another that promised more hours, and she was to be trained for a month on day shift. Great, I thought, because I'd get to see her on a normal schedule, with normal sleep. Nothing changed. Always whining that she felt fat because she gained a couple pounds (ridiculous...she looks great), and always excusing herself from my suggestions to start running again with things like...."it's too hot today", "I was too tired because I didn't sleep well last night", etc., etc. I couldn't get her to believe that she looked great (she actually told me compliments like that annoyed her!), and I couldn't get her to do anything about it if she insisted on thinking of herself as fat. Gradually, she told me more and more about her upbringing, so I have a clearer picture of how troubled she might be:

1. Her father was so depressed that he was often out of work, sleeping the days away, and as a result they lived practically in poverty. They moved from house to house when she was young, and she drove me by some of the houses. About as close to ghetto as the area gets. In total, she lived in, I think, six different houses in the same town.
2. Life in the inner-city (granted...a town of only about 30,000) was different than I was used to (suburbs of a smaller city). Her first sexual experience came in elementary school with another girl in her class. Full-on oral sex was implied by her story. That girl dropped out of school, and "the last she knew she was in juvy".
3. When her parents finally divorced at age 16, she didn't handle it well (despite telling me she wanted them to get divorced). She quit going to school and had to get a tutor to finish her classes at home. She says she graduated on time because her grades were good enough up until that point.
4. Her youngest brother is diagnosed with ADD and depression, has rarely held a job, and mostly just sits around the house playing his guitar. He takes classes at a local college, but only about one per semester, and she doesn't even know if he's passing them, or if he has any plans to do anything with them.
5. She told me at one point "I'm not good with feelings. Probably because I never saw affection growing up." That scared me.
6. A few weeks ago she told me that, before they found the right medication for her, she often "dealt with things badly", including resolving emotional problems by over-indulging in alcohol and sleeping with guys she didn't know. I swallowed hard, and she was nervous about telling me that for fear of being judged, but I assured her that I didn't care about her past, only about how she deals with things now and in the future.
7. She told me only a little bit about her counseling, and she made a point to state that her counselor assured her that she wasn't bipolar. We were talking about various mental disorders, and when I started comparing and contrasting bipolar with BPD, she stated that BPD was one that she used to read about the symptoms of, but didn't think it fit her. She never mentioned anything else about what her counselor may think.

All summer I've failed to find any work. At least not in my field, and I planned on waiting until unemployment benefits run out in November before resorting to putting on the Wal-Mart smock. I was fairly stressed about the work situation, and was having to dig into savings (the little my xw and attorney left me with) to cover monthly bills that unemployment benefits didn't cover (like....buying half of my house for the second time, and dating a girl!). Then early last week I received a call from the president of my old company telling me that he was almost certain that they'd have a spot for me back with the company in about a month. Great news! I was excited, she was excited for me, and I was looking forward to getting to show her a better version of me when I was back to work and able to afford to treat her and us to even more fun things (not that she wasn't well-taken care of...). Then three days later, last Friday, after spending the evening walking around a local festival, I dropped her off at her house, asked her about our plans for the rest of the weekend (she was supposed to meet my parents at my niece's birthday party on Sunday), she dropped the bomb on me. Out of nowhere, I got the "you are, like, the greatest guy ever, but I feel more like friends". This was two weeks after she met my sister and her family, a meeting SHE insisted we stop putting off (it's an hour+ drive, and we hadn't found the time to do it previously). And about three weeks after she posted a photo of us together (cheek to cheek) on her Facebook page, and begged me to let her tag me in it (my first photo on Facebook....ever). I gave in, and we both got a kick out of seeing all of her and my family and friends liking and commenting on the photo. So I was stunned, and couldn't really even think to say much, although I'd love to know what changed her mind and why she was behaving as if she was infatuated with me.

Ultimately, her company made an extremely stressful and uncertain 3.5 months much more bearable, but I can't even get excited about getting my job back because I allowed myself to get attached to her. Though my head was telling me she might be risky, I felt good around her, and didn't want that to stop. Now I'm wondering if she did me a favor by ending things before I got in too deep with someone who may be very troubled, because I'm not sure if I would ever have had it in me to end it myself. I think I still like to play caretaker. Not for just anybody, but once I like someone, I'd rather be there for them than turn them away.

I obviously didn't learn my lesson from my marriage, but I'm wondering if it's possible she's simply dealing with depression, or if she's likely dealing with more than that, for which depression is just a symptom. I know it doesn't really matter anymore, except trying to put her behind me will be easier if I can convince myself she was "dangerous" to me.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Well, I think she only wants you if she can't have you.
There are people who don't know what to do with normal.
Some folks are attracted to crisis, and you being without a job and in flux with home was a sort of crisis. 

Don't be someone else's entertainment.
Keep your personal life to yourself more or less, don't overshare your day to day stuff with someone new. 

Definitely have better boundaries and also make sure not to overcommit. Like going fishing, you have to choose bait carefully, if you put out crisis, you'll get someone who is comfortable in crisis. Not always a good thing. (Can be a good thing after commitment, if they are good at managing crises but not creating or adding to them.) You also have to make sure to fish in a place that has the kind of fish you want to catch, and figure out how to catch a fish like that. This means taking some time to study the habits of women that you know and admire (relatives, friends' long term partners, bosses/coworkers) and see what sorts of things put them more at ease and how they go about their lives, where they might hang out, etc. 

There's a lot of chum out there. Even if you're starving, resist the temptation to try any.

You have nothing to prove. You ended a marriage that wasn't going to work. You don't have to find someone right away. Take your time. 

And ask questions right up front about state of mental health and physical health. I personally don't think it's cool to be sharing space with someone and not to disclose psych or other meds or conditions. My former boyfriend who is former because he had a brain hemorrhage failed to tell me about a condition that might have helped me realize I needed to check up on him better...so I am still peeved at him to find out he had underlying MD and didn't tell me about it. So now he is permanently brain damaged and has two zipper lines down his skull. Then there's the obvious, psych meds can go bad if you don't take them or can have complications. It's inconsiderate to hide something like that.


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## angstire

It could be the 100 day fitness test.

Buuuuuuuut, there are lots of red flags. I'm a runner, yet I don't run. It was me that saved my parents by making them divorce. Love bomb, love bomb, love bomb to accelerate the relationship and then she gets bored or whatever and wants to be friends? wtf?

Do what is often suggested for men here and on OSG NMMNG, cool, calm, dispassionate. Is she what you want? HMNU talked about this, are you driving towards her because you're hungry for love and a relationship?

I'm not saying it's done (and maybe it is), but keep your focus on you, your needs and if you're happy. Go NC on her and see what happens. If she values you, she'll come back. Don't forget, you are the prize.

And good luck on getting back into your old company. Keep looking too, brother. Studies have been done on people laid off. Those who took jobs a step down or for less money were better off 5-10 years later and closer to their prior incomes, than people who held out for the same job, same salary. I know, this happened to me.

I haven't posted much on here lately, but you, me and Something New Maybe went through this sheet at the same time. I have had the same kind of dating woes. It takes a while to refocus on you. Your girl might come back, she might not. Your life being awesome is your doing and your delicious cake. A really good woman is just the icing on the cake. She's not the cake.


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## EnjoliWoman

It's easy to be deluded into thinking a relationship is great when the previous one still has you reeling. You are barely a year past the date your ex left and filed and even though you had some alone time before starting to date, it wasn't enough. There are two sides to your question - "Why do I attract the (apparently) mentally unstable?" and that is Why am I attracted the (apparently) mentally unstable?"

You admit codependency and overlooking all of those red flags is a huge sign. The feeling you can make it work, you can 'fix' it/her if YOU do enough, compromise enough. Stop. Don't try to make it work. Let it work or fail on it's own - these should be the easy months, not the ones where you are constantly hit by one red flag after another.

It was probably also nice to have a diversion while you were between jobs. As soon as you mentioned the tiredness my first thought was depression. Likely that would be a lifelong issue. She misrepresented a lot - she used trickle truth and not that we should dump all of our baggage on the lawn right away but before moving in a toothbrush, you should know about medications. You can't know how you really feel about someone for at least 6 months to a year and right now you can't really trust how you feel due to your marital breakup being so recent.

I suggest you REALLY study NPD. My ex was diagnosed. The impact on your own mental health is HUGE. No matter how subtle they are, I imagine your self esteem took a huge hit and being codependent in an of itself is a sign of low self esteem. It takes a while to get your confidence back. They undermine your own thoughts and beliefs with gaslighting and subtle putdowns for believing what you do. 

I don't think you can have a healthy relationship with this woman or any woman unless you take some time to understand why you were in the first relationship because you basically compromised your internal belief system just to be with her. Now you're doing it again - ignoring the signs out of some deep need to make it work. It's OK for it to not work. This is the time to learn to set boundaries and be able to say "this is not OK for me; this is not working for me".


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## PBear

My first thought... Your people picker is broken. You say you spent 13 years in a codependent relationship, and then just right into another relationship before the ink is dry on your divorce. Where was the time spent working on yourself?

Then in this new relationship, you ignore the chinese parade of red flags (things that make you "gulp" and "squirm"), and continue investing more and more of yourself into it.

So, my friend... It's not so much that you "attract" crazy. It's that you "seek" crazy. Fix yourself first. Then look for a relationship. Listen to the warning bells (or klaxons). When the red flags start waving, be willing to say "no, this isn't right for me". 

Just my $0.02...

C


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## LongWalk

You lucked out IMO.

Your self esteem is still reeling after years of abuse by your ex.

Better women may be coming your way.


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## dajam

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Well, I think she only wants you if she can't have you.
> There are people who don't know what to do with normal.
> Some folks are attracted to crisis, and you being without a job and in flux with home was a sort of crisis.


I had a roommate like this... She played two lives, one she hid and the other was all bliss and joy. He daughter asked me once (16) why I treated her mother so nice. 

I realized what she was asking i told her treating her nice is normal behavior if you like someone. Being nice is a good thing and normal. She expressed her mother never had a guy treat good before. 

To this day she umps form relationship to relationship always with a " person who has a shaky life to say the least.. Crisis.. after crisis... 

Believe me some folks are very good at hiding things. however as the saying goes you can lead a horse to water.


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## BlueCalcite

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> There are people who don't know what to do with normal. Some folks are attracted to crisis, and you being without a job and in flux with home was a sort of crisis.


We started e-mailing and texting and set up our date based on my Match profile, which advertised myself as being well-employed. When I was laid off, the first thing I did while sitting in my office contemplating a strategy for packing up all my stuff was to text her the news and offer to cancel the date. She said I sounded like a great guy and still wanted to meet. I began to feel like she might suspect me of lying to her all along, like some sort of bait and switch, and that I was really unemployed all along, so I actually texted her a photo of my termination papers. On our date, she said she believed me that I was just laid off, but that the thought had crossed her mind that I could have been making it up. So, long story short, she wasn't drawn to me because she sensed I was somehow as messed up as her.



> I'm not saying it's done (and maybe it is), but keep your focus on you, your needs and if you're happy. Go NC on her and see what happens. If she values you, she'll come back. Don't forget, you are the prize.


Well, no-contact is a given. After the "friends" speech, I knew that wasn't something I would be comfortable with. She said I could get hold of her sometime, and I responded something like "Don't worry, I won't bother you." She didn't go out of her way to correct me or announce her _desire_ to be contacted by me in the future.



> And good luck on getting back into your old company. Keep looking too, brother. Studies have been done on people laid off. Those who took jobs a step down or for less money were better off 5-10 years later and closer to their prior incomes, than people who held out for the same job, same salary. I know, this happened to me.


Every job that I applied for was going to be twice the commute AND a significant pay cut. The extra commute was also going to be a problem for my dog, since my longer day away from home would necessitate hiring somebody to let him out during the day. So less money, more gas, extra expense to take care of dog.....on several fronts, getting back to the company I know is the ideal situation for me.



> It's easy to be deluded into thinking a relationship is great when the previous one still has you reeling. You are barely a year past the date your ex left and filed and even though you had some alone time before starting to date, it wasn't enough. There are two sides to your question - "Why do I attract the (apparently) mentally unstable?" and that is Why am I attracted the (apparently) mentally unstable?"


I don't think I'm attracted to mental instability. I'm attracted to someone who is physically attractive to me and enjoys doing a lot of the same things as me. If we then seem to enjoy each other's company, it's something I want to hold onto and grow, to the point of overlooking those "little" red flags.

I think the biggest issue for me is what I perceive to be time running out on having a family. I don't want to be the guy attending his kid's high school graduation using a walker. I lost a lot of time in my marriage with nothing to show for it, and now I can't help but feel rushed. When I was feeling optimistic in my relationship with her, I was also excited about other hobbies, starting to do things again that I stopped doing following my divorce. Now, nothing else is fun for me because I'm stressed by the thought of time ticking away, and how much of a waste of time everything else is if it's not contributing towards finding the right girl.

I also think my Match strategy is flawed. I thought I needed to be careful about meeting just anybody (seemed desperate to me). So I've been extremely discriminating, looking for signs of personality traits in profiles. In reality, what I've succeeded in doing is declaring pedestal-status for the girl before I've even met her. And this girl, being the first one I talked myself into contacting, won first prize in the profile contest.


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## Stretch

Seems like you are beating yourself up about meeting people that have issues. We all have issues, let's face it.

Learn, grow and keep enjoying life.

Every person that we meet cannot be the love of our life, try to keep your encounters in perspective.

Sounds like you could be having a great time if you take a deep breath and enjoy life and the love and friendship that you experience even if it isn't forever.

Keep on healing and living your life,
Stretch


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## norajane

> I had two dates with a girl in early March, as my divorce was nearing completion, but she wasn't comfortable with me being fresh out of marriage, so that was the end of that.


This woman? She has her head on straight. She saw the red flags and chose not to take it any further.

You should aspire to be like her and do the same thing when you see red flags.


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## WolverineFan

A healthy relationship can only be enjoyed by healthy people. I went through a divorce and understand the jolt it gives your self-esteem. I understand the loneliness and the desire to just want someone who is interested in being with you. The results, however, predictably take you to the same place. There is a reason why true intimacy (not sex) takes time and should follow certain steps. When you move straight into sexual activity and living together, the relationship will be severely hampered. I have heard it explained this way - "Sex too early (before marriage) prolongs a bad relationship and ruins a good one." If you think about it, this relationship was your "prozac" that made you "feel" better.

There is no judgment here because I fell into the same patterns after my divorce that caused so many problems in my marriage. I had to come face-to-face with a basic question - "what is going to be the foundation of my life?" Will it be a relationship with a woman? Will it be my kids? In the end I decided to return to my relationship with God. He alone brings clarity to everything - past, present, and future. Faith has become the foundation that makes everything else come into a proper perspective. I am not trying to preach just share my own story. If you want more info send me a private message. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Blessings!


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## angstire

I forget how old you are, but it seems you were in your 30s. You have plenty of time to start a family. Do NOT let that concern about time slipping away drive you into the arms of someone so you can have kids and family. Slow down and enjoy your life and dating.

Better to be alone and childless than have children with someone you picked because she was available and you end up hating each other.

A family is not the goal of your life, a fulfilled life is the goal of your life. A family might be part of that, but it doesn't need to be. And if you're focused on that as your goal, you may pick the wrong person to do it with.

The world is full of good women. Be discerning and you will find one for you.


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## Almostrecovered

"Why do I attract the (apparently) mentally unstable?"

I think TAM ownership asks the same thing


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## BlueCalcite

angstire said:


> I forget how old you are, but it seems you were in your 30s.


Approaching 38. And I've made myself an appointment with my counselor, who I haven't seen since losing my job (new Obamacare insurance = new deductible, so essentially no coverage). But I'm just going to gather the funds and see him anyway since it looks like I'll have a better flow of income in the near future.

I did make myself proud by putting my foot down on one occasion. Two things made her grumpy -- when she was tired and when she was hungry. Her schedule gave her weird habits with both, like having trouble sleeping through the night, and often getting up in the middle of the night to eat. When she was hungry, that meant it was time to find her something to eat, else deal with grumpiness. One day she came over with the plan for us to try a new restaurant in town that we'd been wanting to try for a while. The restaurant closed at 8. She got here around 4:30, and immediately laid down on my couch and fell asleep. Around 6 I tried to wake her to see if she was hungry yet, and told her that I was really hungry. She turned over and went back to sleep without a word. I went upstairs and laid down in the bed, eventually falling asleep myself. At 9:15 she came upstairs and woke me up to inform me that she was now hungry, and I rushed her out to the nearest restaurant that was still open. I didn't feel good about it, but I was still hungry too and really wanted to eat.

A week or two later, we had similar plans. She passed out on the couch, and I failed at trying to wake her. But this time I decided I was going to grill up some chicken that I had thawed for lunch but didn't eat. I made myself some chicken fajitas, and the smell aroused her from her slumber, only to discover I only had enough for me. I explained that I had no idea when she was going to wake up and was hungry, then reminded her that I had a jar of her favorite strawberry jam in the fridge. She made herself a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and didn't say a word.


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## Uptown

BlueCalcite said:


> When I started comparing and contrasting bipolar with BPD, she stated that BPD was one that she used to read about the symptoms of, but didn't think it fit her.


Blue, if your exGF is emotionally unstable as you believe, then her primary issue is not narcissism or sociopathy -- both of which are characterized by _stability_. Bipolar and BPD, however, both result in emotional _instability_. In the case of bipolar, that _instability causes the dysfunctional behavior_. With BPD, on the other hand, the reverse is true -- i.e., the _dysfunctional behavior causes the instability_.

If you're interested, I describe a dozen clear differences between the behaviors typical of bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and those typical of BPDers (e.g., my exW). This list is in my post at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Blue.


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## BlueCalcite

Uptown said:


> Blue, if your exGF is emotionally unstable as you believe, then her primary issue is not narcissism or sociopathy -- both of which are characterized by _stability_. Bipolar and BPD, however, both result in emotional _instability_.


The NPD and ASPD was referencing my xw, not my recent girlfriend, but you're right in that mentally "unstable" was a clumsy term to apply as a catch-all. The ex-girlfriend that's the primary subject of this thread definitely falls on the emotional instability side of things, which she readily admitted to me. We were having a rather frank conversation while driving somewhere when she told me that her counselor assured her she wasn't bipolar. I dug just a little bit by asking if the term borderline personality had ever come up, and she only acknowledged being familiar with it because of her own research, but didn't mention anything about her counselor bringing it up. So we discussed briefly the differences between the two (much of my knowledge on the matter having come from reading your posts, by the way). But I never learned anything else about what official diagnosis/diagnoses she's received, other than the depression, which I suspect is just a symptom of something greater.


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## BlueCalcite

EnjoliWoman said:


> I suggest you REALLY study NPD. My ex was diagnosed. The impact on your own mental health is HUGE. No matter how subtle they are, I imagine your self esteem took a huge hit and being codependent in an of itself is a sign of low self esteem. It takes a while to get your confidence back. They undermine your own thoughts and beliefs with gaslighting and subtle putdowns for believing what you do.


Been there! My bookshelf looks like the personality disorder section of an Amazon.com distribution center. I spent last August through this February studying it and discussing it with my counselor (he is estranged from his narcissistic father). It was all very helpful in convincing myself that I wasn't crazy, and then I decided I needed to put it in the past and stop analyzing it.


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## TheGoodGuy

Uptown said:


> Blue, if your exGF is emotionally unstable as you believe, then her primary issue is not narcissism or sociopathy -- both of which are characterized by _stability_. Bipolar and BPD, however, both result in emotional _instability_. In the case of bipolar, that _instability causes the dysfunctional behavior_. With BPD, on the other hand, the reverse is true -- i.e., the _dysfunctional behavior causes the instability_.
> 
> If you're interested, I describe a dozen clear differences between the behaviors typical of bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and those typical of BPDers (e.g., my exW). This list is in my post at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Blue.


Up, I read through the link you posted with interest. In your opinion, is it possible for someone who is Bipolar to also take on many BPD characteristics as time passes?


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## Uptown

TheGoodGuy said:


> Is it possible for someone who is Bipolar to also take on many BPD characteristics as time passes?


Yes, GG. Keep in mind, however, that "BPD characteristics" are not something that you "have" or "don't have." Instead, they are basic human behavioral traits that every adult on the planet has to some extent. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means we all have all of the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your exW exhibits the nine BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits most of them at a strong and persistent level.

Moreover, even we healthy individuals can get temporary flareups of our BPD traits. The most common cause for such flareups is drug abuse or a hormone change (e.g., during puberty, pregnancy, postpartum, or perimenopause). Indeed, so many of us behave like BPDers during adolescence (due to the hormone surges) that psychologists usually refuse to diagnose it until the client is at least 18 years old.

When a person has full-blown BPD, however, the traits almost certainly will start showing very strongly during the early teens. Although it is possible the traits might remain hidden for several years (i.e., resulting in adult onset), that is extremely unlikely. Indeed, it is so rare that I've only heard of it occurring once (to the W of a TAM member named John). 

The reason this is so rare is that a person suffering from full blown BPD typically has the emotional development of a four year old because a trauma in early childhood (together with genetics) caused their development to freeze. There therefore is virtually no chance that this person will be able to sustain close personal relationships for years without showing strong BPD symptoms.

Hence, the answer to your question, IME, is that it is extremely unlikely a person with bipolar will start exhibiting strong BPD traits several years after becoming bipolar. Instead, the opposite is far more likely. That is, it is not unusual for a BPDer to start exhibiting strong BPD traits at age 13 and then start showing bipolar traits at age 25. Whereas BPD traits typically start after puberty begins, bipolar traits typically start at age 25 (with the normal range being 18 to 30 years of age for onset of such symptoms). About a third of BPDers do develop bipolar-1 disorder as well. Yet, as I said above, a temporary flareup of BPD traits can occur at various times during one's lifetime, usually due to hormone changes (but these temporary flareups do NOT indicate one has the full-blown disorder).


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## poppyseed

dajam said:


> To this day she umps form relationship to relationship always with a " person who has a shaky life to say the least.. Crisis.. after crisis...
> 
> Believe me some folks are very good at hiding things.


It's interesting to read.

I have known people who do not necessarily hide their "crisis ..after crisis..." past and willingly share their past "bust ups" and very open about discussing these..these are friendly and open characters who worked hard in their life despite these crisis-prone tendencies.

But it still leaves me feeling very uncomfortable. Is all his past now behind him/them? "Questionable" - in my life stage. If I never knew about this site and the failed marriage that I had which hurt me so much in so many levels, I would have been more willing. But now? Too risky!!


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## Pepper123

Count your blessings... the emotional neglect that she experienced as a child sounds like it has her quite stunted in regards to feelings. When this happens, you don't learn certain self-care that is required to be in a healthy relationship. Persons that have been through this kind of neglect have to learn things that others learn in childhood. Many persons experience feeling like they have a "fatal flaw" -- something innately wrong with them that makes them different and unlovable from everyone else. 

There are a number of traits of persons that have experienced childhood neglect, many of which are outlined in a really good book called "Running on Empty - Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect." 

You sound somewhat like a KISA... so you would be drawn to the bird with the broken wing...


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## Catherine602

Didn't read all of the responses but I don't think there is anything wrong with you. You are probably better than average at forming a strong caring relationship. But that ability is very attractive to the unstable, deranged, sick and otherwise unsuitable for human cohabitation individuals. So why you? Because these slackers look for normal people like you and begin to probe. 

They do little crazy things at first, just under the radar. If you make excuses because you are kind and caring and continue the relationship then they escalate and hook you in. Some nice people recognize their game and some don't. You have a flat learning curve in regards to relationship but no reason that you can't ramp up fast. 

Read about the features of PD and other intractable mental problems so you know them when you see them. When crazy shows up, exit. Everyone has problems so look for the basic deal breakers and the basic must haves.

Find a woman who may have had bad relationship experiences but remains optimistic and still likes and trust men. Someone with common interest and social background and a tract record of stable relationships with friends and family. That's only a start, proceed slowly and incrementally. Don't be manipulated by crazy sex. If crazy shows up any stage, no matter how involved you are, walk. Take time to vet the person before getting tied to them. 

In short, date... a lot. That means trail and error till you sharpen your picker.


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## BlueCalcite

Pepper123 said:


> Count your blessings... the emotional neglect that she experienced as a child sounds like it has her quite stunted in regards to feelings. When this happens, you don't learn certain self-care that is required to be in a healthy relationship. Persons that have been through this kind of neglect have to learn things that others learn in childhood. Many persons experience feeling like they have a "fatal flaw" -- something innately wrong with them that makes them different and unlovable from everyone else.
> 
> There are a number of traits of persons that have experienced childhood neglect, many of which are outlined in a really good book called "Running on Empty - Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect."
> 
> You sound somewhat like a KISA... so you would be drawn to the bird with the broken wing...


Thanks -- that pretty much sums up what I've concluded about her after spending a lot of time thinking about her behavior and the things she told me. I think she desperately wants to experience a normal range of emotions and be able to be part of a "normal" relationship. Seeing her brother and step-sister both have new babies during the first days of our relationship added to her desperation, I think. But it seems that she just can't summon those feelings, and is stuck at relying on meaningless sex, alcohol, and other thrill-seeking to make herself feel good. Who knows -- maybe knowing so much about my xw and how it affected me made her recognize herself as being an unsuitable partner for me. Or maybe that's giving her too much credit. Anyway, I'm glad that she's at least self-aware enough to be in monthly counseling. Hopefully her counselor is a good one.

That looks like a very good book -- I think I'll add it to my collection.


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## ne9907

Pepper123 said:


> . * Many persons experience feeling like they have a "fatal flaw" -- something innately wrong with them that makes them different and unlovable from everyone else. *
> ...


:iagree:

Fortunately, with the proper help, these feelins can be overcome. It is not an easy proccess, but it is possible.


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## COguy

Red flag # 1 - you were in a long term relationship with someone that had a Cluster B Personality Disorder. Guess what, that means that you have issues. Because a person with a healthy sense of self wouldn't be in a long-term relationship with someone with a Cluster B. You are more than likely codependent (which you partially admitted to). Not getting help for this will guarantee you end up in a similar relationship.

Red flag #2 - a few months after getting out of a relationship with a crazy you are back in dating full force. Why the rush after such a mind f*ck?

Red flag #3 - You're dating a girl for 1 month and you're going after her HARD. Multiple dates on the same day and she's practically moving in with you? That is the biggest red flag for me. The #1 play from a crazy is to escalate relationships quickly. This way, you're enamored by the fairy tale before you get around to noticing her odd and unhealthy behavior. By the time the real crap starts you're second guessing yourself because the relationship was so wonderful and you can't understand what happened.

Red flag #4 - All these issues and red flags, and you were still hooked on her.

As a codependent you are going to be crazy bait, that is how the dynamic works. You will best protect yourself by keeping relationships SLOW, and making sure you retain much contact with male friends and family (who will be looking out for you). Escalating relationships quickly and isolating you from loved ones are the main plays from a crazy.

Consider this definitely positive that she ended it (you got out easy on that one). Don't date until you have your crap figured out. Take some alone time. Check out CODA.org, which could be a huge help to you in recognizing some of the things you're dealing with.


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## BlueCalcite

COguy said:


> Red flag # 1 - you were in a long term relationship with someone that had a Cluster B Personality Disorder. Guess what, that means that you have issues. Because a person with a healthy sense of self wouldn't be in a long-term relationship with someone with a Cluster B. You are more than likely codependent (which you partially admitted to). Not getting help for this will guarantee you end up in a similar relationship.
> 
> Red flag #2 - a few months after getting out of a relationship with a crazy you are back in dating full force. Why the rush after such a mind f*ck?


It wasn't exactly a few months. My xw left June 1, 2013, and I didn't go on a date until early March 2014, and then my first date with this girl was mid April. In between, I was in counseling weekly for a few months, then every other week for a few months, then roughly monthly at the beginning of this year until I lost my job in April. By that time, I thought I was ready. And I still think I was ready to meet a good girl -- I just wasn't ready to immediately cast aside the company of a troubled one. What are the chances of encountering TWO disordered girls consecutively, after all? 



> Red flag #3 - You're dating a girl for 1 month and you're going after her HARD. Multiple dates on the same day and she's practically moving in with you? That is the biggest red flag for me. The #1 play from a crazy is to escalate relationships quickly. This way, you're enamored by the fairy tale before you get around to noticing her odd and unhealthy behavior. By the time the real crap starts you're second guessing yourself because the relationship was so wonderful and you can't understand what happened.


Agreed. I think I let myself feel "honored" by how much time she wanted to spend with me. I won't let myself fall for that again.



> Red flag #4 - All these issues and red flags, and you were still hooked on her.


And, all things considered, I'm still glad it happened, because losing my job and being unable to find another one was weighing on me. Her company made a potentially very depressing, stressful summer much more enjoyable.



> As a codependent you are going to be crazy bait, that is how the dynamic works. You will best protect yourself by keeping relationships SLOW, and making sure you retain much contact with male friends and family (who will be looking out for you). *Escalating relationships quickly and isolating you from loved ones are the main plays from a crazy*.


I know this well. The best man from my wedding has lived just down the road our entire adult lives. One of the many casualties of my marriage was that relationship, because I was always working too many hours to support her to hang out with friends. I haven't seen him in probably five years, and only spoke to him one time last year after the xw left. The xw and his wife were pretty good friends -- now that I think of it, they could still be, and he could know everything about how horrible a husband I was.


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## COguy

BlueCalcite said:


> What are the chances of encountering TWO disordered girls consecutively, after all?


Worm: "I just wanted to take a swim, what are the chances I'd get bit by two hungry fish in a row?"

You're a magnet for the crazies. You have to take extra steps and precautions. You need to figure out why you're addicted to the excitement of it. Is it the intensity or the Knight in Shining Armor Effect? The need to be needed?


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## EnjoliWoman

Blue - I disagree that less than a year was enough time. Most counselors advocate at LEAST a year a lone. 

In order to avoid the crazies that will rush into a relationship you need to do a few things. You need to be perfectly content alone. Can you sit quietly and enjoy your own thoughts? When you don't have plans to get together to find that you have to reach out to someone or do you just as easily think about a hobby or project that doesn't involve others? 

I think you mistook wanting companionship and sex for being the same as being ready to date. The are not the same.

And when you do date, do not contact her every day. Personally I would find that pushy, smothering and a huge turnoff early on. There are no set rules but here is a basic guide for how things should transpire IMO:

Initial contact - you meet someone either in person or on line. Chat for 15 or 20 minutes or email back and forth a few times. Ask her out for a quick meeting that lets you end it quickly if you aren't interested. Lunch, coffee, drinks before you meet a friend for dinner - whatever. 

So now you've met her and want to see her again. At the end of the first meeting, get her phone number, set up another date at LEAST 3 days from first meeting. DO NOT CONTACT HER DURING THIS TIME. You may text/email or call once to confirm you are still on for the date/time/place. Keep it brief, no more conversation.

Date - having a nice time? Good. Limit alcohol, don't get drunk, don't sleep with her or make out. A kiss goodnight, say you'd like to see her again. Mention an activity and a date.

You may call the next day to say you really enjoyed it and set up the next date firmly. Then you can chat for 10 or so and then say you have to go and be done. No texting, calling, etc.

By now you should know if she's a little needy. If she starts texting you all of the time "just to say hi" or "just to see now your day is" DO NOT RESPOND - not right away. 

You are busy, you have a life and you are not needy, right? If it's an early morning have a good day text, wait until lunch and reply thanks, good so far and end it with "SEE YOU FRIDAY" or whenever your date is. Do not encourage constant back and forth communication.

If she doesn't get the hint and keeps texting or emailing, and especially if she gets pissy about it, you've just hooked the crazy one. You may have to cut her loose before the next date. But be warned, if you go out again, she's going to turn the crazy girl wild sex on you and try to reel you in.

In a normal relationship you'll just touch base occasionally - a phone call or two during the week, a nice date on the weekend, natural progression to a little making out. Texting and calling will become more frequent and maybe add a mid-week date in or something on Friday and Sunday but it won't be constant. The constant contact is what clues you in.


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## firebelly1

This seems like the appropriate thread to post this...

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/30/bd/b2/30bdb20624cf1bb000728b609f441989.jpg


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## angstire

EW's got it right. Dating about once a week for the first 3 months is reasonable. Seeing more often is fine later, but crazy will amp it up to build that fairy tale, that later you want to try and recapture that COguy mentioned. Only at that point, crazy has you hooked and codepedents try to do everything they can to rationalize the abusive behavior and get the fairy tale back, by jumping through her increasingly narrow hoops. I know, I just cut one of those loose and it was NOT easy.

Don't be surprised if she comes back, trying to get her emotional cup filled by you. Her life is hard due to her own circumstances and you are just another resource she will use to make it easier and persuade herself that she's a special snowflake.


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## BlueCalcite

EnjoliWoman said:


> I think you mistook wanting companionship and sex for being the same as being ready to date. The are not the same.


Companionship maybe, but sex was never on the agenda. It ended up going there WAY earlier than I was comfortable with because she took it in that direction, and I didn't want to disappoint her. Hell, it was toward the end of our third date, a hike through some local woods, before I finally held her hand. And I asked her permission before doing it. That's just the way I am.



> And when you do date, do not contact her every day. Personally I would find that pushy, smothering and a huge turnoff early on. There are no set rules but here is a basic guide for how things should transpire IMO......


Again, she accelerated the pace and frequency of communication. Knowing me, I probably would have waited another two weeks after holding her hand before asking for her phone number. But she sent me her phone number before our first date. I would never contact someone so much that I looked needy. I know how that works. But when I'm on the receiving end of neediness, I found myself feeling more flattered than alarmed. Not good, I know.


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## poppyseed

BlueCalcite said:


> Anyway, I'm glad that she's at least self-aware enough to be in monthly counseling. Hopefully her counselor is a good one.


Monthly ones would be a very, very slow process. Weekly ones, I find far more helpful which I am currently on.


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## SamuraiJack

Most therapists consider weekly to be low maintainence sessions. Sort of a simmer. Anything more than once a week is generally considered actively cooking. Dailies are a rolling boil...generally fro crisis mode.


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## poppyseed

Thanks for your input, Samurai - knowing you are an expert in this. So what is your take on this thread? hope I'm not putting you under the spotlight in your busy schedule. 

My response: It's hard to tell if someone is simply needy / starved of emotional connect whilst someone is out of a relationship for a while WHEN he/she has shown that his / her work ethic is GOOD and even excellent in their track record in what they do. 

And in fact, some are highly qualified professionals. Some people do seem to "want" a relationship so badly. I have seen that in some men as well as in some women. Is that unhealthy or is that simply normal? It's hard to say.


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## SamuraiJack

Well, I can weigh in with a slightly knowledgeable base, but nothing official can be said.
Not enough information and too much missing from the equation.

Since people are all different, they will all experience rebounds, limerance and recovery in different timeframes and different ways.
What will work for one person will not work for another and vice versa.

Time is the deciding factor in nearly all recovery and it is a deciding factor in romance as well. People who dive in too quickly are usually more in love with their perception of love than the actual person themselves. These are the ones who suddenly become sullen and distant 6-12 months into a relationship when “the shine wears off”.
The “love conquers all” mentality is a leftover from Medieval times and the era of romantic love…it is an outmoded and dangerous concept for a modern society.
Most of us don’t even know we carry it until it blows up in our faces.

They often confuse the physical and chemical attraction with real love and it eventually wears off…then the “Angry woman” or “Sullen Man” comes out to play because its “not magical anymore”.

Another concept which I see a lot is the concept of “projection”.
This is when a person sees things in another person that are actually placed there by them. 
Silly example…

A woman dates a man who she is attracted to in a very hurried fashion. The man distances himself very much in the same manner that her father did. HE is just making space, but SHE feels he is distancing and responds EXACTLY the same way she did with her father.

Another example…

My wife married me because I had the same type of charm and calm that her father did. Eventually she started looking for me to approve her life choice when her father died. You can guess how well that turned out..

Best example of projection…
A man and a woman are talking on the phone in an early portion of their relationship. They have never met in person but they SEEM to be falling in love.
What gives? Nothing “gives”, it’s all projection.
Human being like to make sense out of things and they often fill in missing pieces with the information that either makes the most sense or is the most familiar to them.
In the telephone/texting/email phase ANY missing part is likely to be filled with a person’s assumptions about the other person.

Even though you think you KNOW a person, you are actually seeing anywhere between 15-50% of them. The rest is projections of how you see them. Thus the reason people can lead themselves astray so easily. Most of the time it’s no one’s fault. It’s just human nature.
NOTHING is real until you meet the person.

This can also working in the long run as well as illustrated by my ex’s actions…even though they were subconscious.



The BEST way to keep yourself sane and safe in the dating world ( once you are past your 20’s) is to KNOW what your tendencies are in a relationship and to be able to explain them if asked. If your partner can’t do the same, it’s likely that they haven’t done the work to know what their triggers and traps are and thus are approaching the relationship unaware of what they bring to the table.

My two cents…take it for whatever you can get from it. 


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## poppyseed

SamuraiJack said:


> My wife married me because I had the same type of charm and calm that her father did. Eventually she started looking for me to approve her life choice when her father died. You can guess how well that turned out..


:rofl: I'm sure many of us, women do subconsciously! lol In my case, not when I first met my ex but as our former relationship had matured, I found myself doing the same as your ex-w did. A big mistake!!


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## unsure78

SamuraiJack said:


> Well, I can weigh in with a slightly knowledgeable base, but nothing official can be said.
> Not enough information and too much missing from the equation.
> 
> Since people are all different, they will all experience rebounds, limerance and recovery in different timeframes and different ways.
> What will work for one person will not work for another and vice versa.
> 
> Time is the deciding factor in nearly all recovery and it is a deciding factor in romance as well. People who dive in too quickly are usually more in love with their perception of love than the actual person themselves. These are the ones who suddenly become sullen and distant 6-12 months into a relationship when “the shine wears off”.
> The “love conquers all” mentality is a leftover from Medieval times and the era of romantic love…it is an outmoded and dangerous concept for a modern society.
> Most of us don’t even know we carry it until it blows up in our faces.
> 
> They often confuse the physical and chemical attraction with real love and it eventually wears off…then the “Angry woman” or “Sullen Man” comes out to play because its “not magical anymore”.
> 
> Another concept which I see a lot is the concept of “projection”.
> This is when a person sees things in another person that are actually placed there by them.
> Silly example…
> 
> A woman dates a man who she is attracted to in a very hurried fashion. The man distances himself very much in the same manner that her father did. HE is just making space, but SHE feels he is distancing and responds EXACTLY the same way she did with her father.
> 
> Another example…
> 
> My wife married me because I had the same type of charm and calm that her father did. Eventually she started looking for me to approve her life choice when her father died. You can guess how well that turned out..
> 
> Best example of projection…
> A man and a woman are talking on the phone in an early portion of their relationship. They have never met in person but they SEEM to be falling in love.
> What gives? Nothing “gives”, it’s all projection.
> Human being like to make sense out of things and they often fill in missing pieces with the information that either makes the most sense or is the most familiar to them.
> In the telephone/texting/email phase ANY missing part is likely to be filled with a person’s assumptions about the other person.
> 
> Even though you think you KNOW a person, you are actually seeing anywhere between 15-50% of them. The rest is projections of how you see them. Thus the reason people can lead themselves astray so easily. Most of the time it’s no one’s fault. It’s just human nature.
> NOTHING is real until you meet the person.
> 
> This can also working in the long run as well as illustrated by my ex’s actions…even though they were subconscious.
> 
> 
> 
> The BEST way to keep yourself sane and safe in the dating world ( once you are past your 20’s) is to KNOW what your tendencies are in a relationship and to be able to explain them if asked. If your partner can’t do the same, it’s likely that they haven’t done the work to know what their triggers and traps are and thus are approaching the relationship unaware of what they bring to the table.
> 
> My two cents…take it for whatever you can get from it. 


I so agree with this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dajam

WolverineFan said:


> A healthy relationship can only be enjoyed by healthy people. I went through a divorce and understand the jolt it gives your self-esteem. I understand the loneliness and the desire to just want someone who is interested in being with you. The results, however, predictably take you to the same place. There is a reason why true intimacy (not sex) takes time and should follow certain steps. When you move straight into sexual activity and living together, the relationship will be severely hampered. I have heard it explained this way - "Sex too early (before marriage) prolongs a bad relationship and ruins a good one." If you think about it, this relationship was your "prozac" that made you "feel" better.
> 
> There is no judgment here because I fell into the same patterns after my divorce that caused so many problems in my marriage. I had to come face-to-face with a basic question - "what is going to be the foundation of my life?" Will it be a relationship with a woman? Will it be my kids? In the end I decided to return to my relationship with God. He alone brings clarity to everything - past, present, and future. Faith has become the foundation that makes everything else come into a proper perspective. I am not trying to preach just share my own story. If you want more info send me a private message. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Blessings!


IMHO, the foundation is key. However you get there, religion, exercise, yoga, meditation, friends anything you can use to center oneself, stand back and look. Funny I stated going to church after my D.it was non-denom... I swear it was targeted at my life at that very moment. Made me think and think hard about my life. 

Crazy draws crazy, good draws good, healthy draws healthy. You have to be "healthy mentally and physically" to maximize you view...


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## dajam

poppyseed said:


> It's interesting to read.
> 
> I have known people who do not necessarily hide their "crisis ..after crisis..." past and willingly share their past "bust ups" and very open about discussing these..these are friendly and open characters who worked hard in their life despite these crisis-prone tendencies.
> 
> But it still leaves me feeling very uncomfortable. Is all his past now behind him/them? "Questionable" - in my life stage. If I never knew about this site and the failed marriage that I had which hurt me so much in so many levels, I would have been more willing. But now? Too risky!!



I get what you are saying as I am torn about ever trying again also however I know deep inside it will be good. I know more now than I ever had about relationships, and how to make one work. 

The friend I was referring to when I posted (above)was very close until her daughter and son I started to suggest that maybe she should go and try to sort it out. Get on her feet, she even told me many times she probably needed it. 

But Alas, she is gorgeous and smart, guys falling all over her. Her ego is so friggin large it is beyond control. "she has to be in a relationship" hence all the bad choices.


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## mtpromises

To be honest this woman sounds just like an ex boyfriend of mine who is a Narcissist. In his stories he's always the hero who's saving the day. Some people get that complex if they grew up in households where substance abuse was always a factor. 

Your relationship with your now ex girlfriend moved too fast which is another thing those suffering with personality disorders do. They want to tie you down fast so that once they show their true colors you won't leave them (and in the end they leave you!); it's a control issue. Now you're left miserable trying to figure all this out while she's probably onto her next relationship.

You need time to yourself. You have to do some deep soul searching to figure out why you need to be in a relationship. The answer may not be as simple as you think.


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## BlueCalcite

mtpromises said:


> To be honest this woman sounds just like an ex boyfriend of mine who is a Narcissist. In his stories he's always the hero who's saving the day. Some people get that complex if they grew up in households where substance abuse was always a factor.


She certainly has her share of issues, but narcissism isn't one of them. My xw is the classic narcissist, and their issues manifested themselves in the exact opposite ways. The xw is loud, brash, and wants attention. I've actually had very interesting conversations with my counselor about her need to ALWAYS stomp through the house, slam cupboard doors, etc, despite my pleas not to. He said it completely makes sense to him, because of her poorly-formed (if not completely absent) sense of self -- and the feeling of invisibility that it leaves her with. She needs to make noise to announce her presence to others AND to herself. Essentially, she was convincing herself of her own existence. The recent girlfriend is quiet and shy around people (until you're alone with her......). The xw NEEDED acknowledgement in her career (to the point of stealing money from me to help buy herself attention; she actually paid for ads in the local newspaper to congratulate herself on passing tests or obtaining various certifications), while the recent girlfriend has no real career aspirations beyond finding a way to not be bored by her job. The xw was quick to bombard me with talk of feelings, and how perfect I was. The recent girlfriend avoided any talk of that. She convinced me of her interest in me in every other way, but never spoke of feelings (in fact, she admitted that she struggles with feelings).



mtpromises said:


> Your relationship with your now ex girlfriend moved too fast which is another thing those suffering with personality disorders do. They want to tie you down fast so that once they show their true colors you won't leave them (and in the end they leave you!); it's a control issue. Now you're left miserable trying to figure all this out while she's probably onto her next relationship.
> 
> You need time to yourself. You have to do some deep soul searching to figure out why you need to be in a relationship. The answer may not be as simple as you think.


Yes, it moved too fast. But things did slow down (physically) after the first couple of months. We started spending more time at her place, with her family around, so our activities were limited, and when she came to my town, we were making plans that took us out of the house, often returning home very late and just falling asleep. Then we spent a Saturday with my sister's family, talking and playing board games. She had commented that her family never really played games growing up, and I think she becomes bored easily by such activities. In short, looking at things from her perspective, I can envision her ending things once things progressed from the exciting first stage of the relationship to the more mundane. I don't think she does well with mundane.


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## ricky15100

Dodged a bullet if you ask me


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## BlueCalcite

ricky15100 said:


> Dodged a bullet if you ask me


Yes, very likely so. I saw my counselor last night for the first time in months and gave him the story. He concluded the same thing, that she seems very immature emotionally (and otherwise), and that he thought her ending things was her most mature act of the entire relationship.

I'm over her. I was mostly over her within a few days, which surprised me. But when I recalled how absent the relationship was of any emotional connection (at least, from her towards me), it became clear to me why I wasn't feeling more disappointed.


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## poppyseed

firebelly1 said:


> This seems like the appropriate thread to post this...
> 
> http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/30/bd/b2/30bdb20624cf1bb000728b609f441989.jpg


:rofl::rofl::rofl: He's so cute...and I'm so hooked!!


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## poppyseed

BlueCalcite said:


> I don't think she does well with mundane.


I think there have been pointers or some "give-away" from her along the way but perhaps, these weren't picked up, immediately?

Anyway, never mind, we live and learn yes?


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## poppyseed

BlueCalcite said:


> The xw was quick to bombard me with talk of feelings, and how perfect I was. The recent girlfriend avoided any talk of that. She convinced me of her interest in me in every other way, but never spoke of feelings (in fact, she admitted that she struggles with feelings).
> 
> I can envision her ending things once things progressed from the exciting first stage of the relationship to the more mundane. I don't think she does well with mundane.


She wasn't into you, to share / exchange feelings by the sound of it. She was probably after something exciting to her but nothing long-term, just something to entertain her. When there wasn't enough mutual emotions of care and love / without these romantic feelings from both sides, then this sort of short-lived liaison rarely lasts. You get some exciting liaisons for the first couple months but soon things get fizzled out.


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