# Is this a fitness test? And did I pass?



## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Ok. So, now that my relationship came to a little more solid ground and she is not depressed and we actually are friends again and communicating quite nicely. I have been really getting into reading up on fitness testing and manning up so to speak. My wife really isn't into "love or sex" at ALL right now, so I'm looking for ways to start to progress there. I know this because she bought her first vibrator she has ever owned in December and literally hasn't touched it. She really can't stand men right now and just wants to deepen our "friendship". I know. Blah. I did read "The Way of the Superior Man" and I'm about to pick up Athol's book. 

Anyways. This Sunday we had a week's worth of dirty laundry in the laundry room. It was awful. With a family of 6, that's a ton. So, I went to work. Washed all of it by Sunday afternoon. So, my wife decides to start folding. She comes across a "beggin strip" which is a dog treat that looks like bacon. The comments start. "I can't believe you did this. You need to be more careful. yada. yada. yada." In the past I would have gotten defensive and sulked or said something really smartass. This time, I looked up and with a totally calm face said, " Well, I don't really like doing laundry. But, I don't like living in filth. The laundry room was filthy and I had no underwear this morning. If you don't want me to do laundry, don't let it get that way." and I walked away. Not another word from her. I just can't believe it diffused like that and I have been responding like a dope for 12 years.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

If you felt good about it ... you passed.

This is where you set the groundwork for respect, and the dynamic you want to foster. As you indicated, at this point, you changing how you respond to her isn't going to make her go throw on lingerie and throw herself at you. But ... it will make her think about the sh!t she decides to throw at you. And that is progress.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

The only message she got from this is that you messed up and tossed it on her and then pulled the old "don't let it get that way" order. 
You could have just said "oh, how did that little sucker get in there" and then start to laugh. Situation difused. Now? Those panties aren't coming off anytime soon.
BTW....not wanting dog food/treats in her laundry isn't a test. Like I said yesterday, why make something out of nothing? Wall treatment vs. latex paint.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Brighteyes: I understand about not wanting dog treats in your laundry. Keep in mind, I did this while I was cooking breakfast, cleaning the kitchen, and it was found in a child's pocket. Something, she likely would have missed too considering how many things I was doing at once. Our entire marriage has been her barking about anything and everything when I try to do something. This actually helped her! I have handled it wrong before, and I'm not doing it again. 

My wife is a SAHM. I do way too much cleaning and cooking and it gets in the way of me doing the "manly" things I need to do in addition to work/daddy/teaching my children history (we homeschool). We have tried to approach this with dividing things up: it doesn't work. She is a procrastinator. Before october, I would just let it go.(the laundry) Now I lead by example. Trying to change one thing at a time.

"tossed it on her "

Maybe so. But, I am tired of being her scapegoat and doormat.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The only message she got from this is that you messed up and tossed it on her and then pulled the old "don't let it get that way" order.
> You could have just said "oh, how did that little sucker get in there" and then start to laugh. Situation difused. Now? Those panties aren't coming off anytime soon.
> BTW....not wanting dog food/treats in her laundry isn't a test. Like I said yesterday, why make something out of nothing? Wall treatment vs. latex paint.


So is that really how you intend to respond to this stuff now, or do you truly NOT want to see that this was simply him standing up for himself?

The 'test' was his self control and response. Sex has ZERO to do with his relationship dynamic at this point, and he knows it.

What she 'gets' at this point doesn't matter. It truly doesn't, other than he isn't going to tolerate the same old, same old.

Of course the reason why he had to do 6 loads of laundry in the first place is because she knew if she waited long enough ... he'd do it. 

Dude is trying to hold his marriage together without being a whipping boy.

Seriously? You'd rather just take a swipe at this guy?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Brighteyes: I understand about not wanting dog treats in your laundry. Keep in mind, I did this while I was cooking breakfast, cleaning the kitchen, and it was found in a child's pocket. Something, she likely would have missed too considering how many things I was doing at once. Our entire marriage has been her barking about anything and everything when I try to do something. This actually helped her! I have handled it wrong before, and I'm not doing it again.
> 
> My wife is a SAHM. I do way too much cleaning and cooking and it gets in the way of me doing the "manly" things I need to do in addition to work/daddy/teaching my children history (we homeschool). We have tried to approach this with dividing things up: it doesn't work. She is a procrastinator. Before october, I would just let it go.(the laundry) Now I lead by example. Trying to change one thing at a time.


You missed my point. Instead of viewing this as some sort of test/confrontation which it wasn't, you could have just laughed it off. Something like I wrote or even better saying "well bacon DOES make everything better". She would have laughed too. 
What I was getting at is that so many times here things are viewed as a test and it causes men to impliment all these tools, tricks, manipulative tactics, etc. which just creates unneeded drama and conflict.

Lookin' at you Deejo.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I think the clear message you sent was the right one, and a good one.
Maybe fewer words wouldve been better...like everything except "don't let it get that way."
could just put her on the defensive.

I know how aggravating it is to spend hours doing a job, and have your spouse focus in on ONE "flaw."

Humor can be a good way to defuse that particular "test."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Also, I'm not going for sex at this point. I really don't want it until I'm ready for it. I am trying to become the leader and figurehead. She has a problem with using sex as a weapon or as a reward system in our past, and we are under strict intructions not to have sex by our therapist.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> So is that really how you intend to respond to this stuff now, or do you truly NOT want to see that this was simply him standing up for himself?
> 
> The 'test' was his self control and response. Sex has ZERO to do with his relationship dynamic at this point, and he knows it.
> 
> ...


That wasn't a swipe. I hope he didn't see it that way. I further explained. Not at ALL suggesting he becomes the whipping boy. Not escalating the situation would have been best. Humor would have been perfect. It would have shown her that her words did not affect him and that HE was in control of the situation by not letting any of it get under his skin.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> What I was getting at is that so many times here things are viewed as a test and it causes men to impliment all these tools, tricks, manipulative tactics, etc. which just creates unneeded drama and conflict.


Yeah, most definitely. But, I have NEVER reacted this way, and she really was totally ok after I said this. In the past, it would have been drama city for a solid hour. It just felt weird to do it because it is not typical for me, and I wanted to see it from an outside perspective.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Brighteyes: I understand about not wanting dog treats in your laundry. Keep in mind, I did this while I was cooking breakfast, cleaning the kitchen, and it was found in a child's pocket. Something, she likely would have missed too considering how many things I was doing at once. Our entire marriage has been her barking about anything and everything when I try to do something. This actually helped her! I have handled it wrong before, and I'm not doing it again.
> 
> My wife is a SAHM. I do way too much cleaning and cooking and it gets in the way of me doing the "manly" things I need to do in addition to work/daddy/teaching my children history (we homeschool). We have tried to approach this with dividing things up: it doesn't work. She is a procrastinator. Before october, I would just let it go.(the laundry) Now I lead by example. Trying to change one thing at a time.
> 
> ...


Being unappreciated sucks.
It feels very no-win when you do a lot, and she doesn't seem to see it.

I was just implying that sometimes more is said in fewer words.
But you handled her criticism well. 
And you deserve to have the good things noticed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You missed my point. Instead of viewing this as some sort of test/confrontation which it wasn't, you could have just laughed it off. Something like I wrote or even better saying "well bacon DOES make everything better". She would have laughed too.
> What I was getting at is that so many times here things are viewed as a test and it causes men to impliment all these tools, tricks, manipulative tactics, etc. which just creates unneeded drama and conflict.
> 
> Lookin' at you Deejo.


Perhaps you missed the bit where D2Her indicated that his response ended, what would ordinarily have been a launching point for conflict?

He responded differently than he normally would. And felt good about it. 

I want results, don't much care about what the hell we call the things that get those results. Dedicated2Her got a different result than the norm. Be happy for him for cripes' sake.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Perhaps you missed the bit where D2Her indicated that his response ended, what would ordinarily have been a launching point for conflict?
> 
> He responded differently than he normally would. And felt good about it.
> 
> I want results, don't much care about what the hell we call the things that get those results. Dedicated2Her got a different result than the norm. Be happy for him for cripes' sake.


I AM happy for him. Agh, I give up.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That wasn't a swipe. I hope he didn't see it that way. I further explained. Not at ALL suggesting he becomes the whipping boy. Not escalating the situation would have been best. Humor would have been perfect. It would have shown her that her words did not affect him and that HE was in control of the situation by not letting any of it get under his skin.


I actually have been humorous about it sometimes and it does somewhat diffuse. However, she said something in our last therapy session that caught me. The therapist asked if she respected me as a dad and as a man. She said, "Oh yes. As a father. As a man, I don't know." The therapist then asked what another woman would think of me. She said, "They would love him." Then, she explained my good qualities. It made me want to puke. The therapist looks at her and said sounds like she is describing Mr. MOM and women don't fall in love with that. The therapist then asked about some other qualities and got her to agree that, yes, I was definitely those things. Great father, good provider, etc.. Now. This is a FAR cry from 6 months ago when she hated me. I'm trying to gain respect and power back into my relationship. She is a very strong and opinionated woman. I just think we are finally to a stage where, now that she is not totally emotionally freaked out, I need to assert myself as a man more.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> I actually have been humorous about it sometimes and it does somewhat diffuse. However, she said something in our last therapy session that caught me. The therapist asked if she respected me as a dad and as a man. She said, "Oh yes. As a father. As a man, I don't know." The therapist then asked what another woman would think of me. She said, "They would love him." Then, she explained my good qualities. It made me want to puke. The therapist looks at her and said sounds like she is describing Mr. MOM and women don't fall in love with that. The therapist then asked about some other qualities and got her to agree that, yes, I was definitely those things. Great father, good provider, etc.. Now. This is a FAR cry from 6 months ago when she hated me. I'm trying to gain respect and power back into my relationship. She is a very strong and opinionated woman. I just think we are finally to a stage where, now that she is not totally emotionally freaked out, I need to assert myself as a man more.


If I was in the situation you describe her clothes most certainly wouldn't have been washed. I would have done mine and the kids (if they're too young to do their own) and then taken them out somewhere.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I have to admit, the bacon comment WAS funny, and would have been a great response. Humorous, and still keeping your cool.

However, the response given was great, in my opinion. No more doormat behavior is awesome.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I AM happy for him. Agh, I give up.


Dont give up! We DO have lots of bacon, btw!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Danny Boy (May 25, 2011)

So here's what would have happened to me had this been me and I had responded this way.

wife:"I can't believe you did this. You need to be more careful"
me:"no underwear, messy laundry...next time don't let it get like this"
wife:"you're an effing @$$hole" or "what's up your @$$?" in a real nasty tone

Here's where the wheels fall of for me. What now? I'd probably just put down whatever laundry was left and let her finish it herself and say nothing. Basically, "[email protected]#% you too" but without the words. Probably not the right response to defuse the situation in my house I guess?


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Ok. So, now that my relationship came to a little more solid ground and she is not depressed and we actually are friends again and communicating quite nicely. I have been really getting into reading up on fitness testing and manning up so to speak. My wife really isn't into "love or sex" at ALL right now, so I'm looking for ways to start to progress there. I know this because she bought her first vibrator she has ever owned in December and literally hasn't touched it. She really can't stand men right now and just wants to deepen our "friendship". I know. Blah. I did read "The Way of the Superior Man" and I'm about to pick up Athol's book.
> 
> Anyways. This Sunday we had a week's worth of dirty laundry in the laundry room. It was awful. With a family of 6, that's a ton. So, I went to work. Washed all of it by Sunday afternoon. So, my wife decides to start folding. She comes across a "beggin strip" which is a dog treat that looks like bacon. The comments start. "I can't believe you did this. You need to be more careful. yada. yada. yada." In the past I would have gotten defensive and sulked or said something really smartass. This time, I looked up and with a totally calm face said, " Well, I don't really like doing laundry. But, I don't like living in filth. The laundry room was filthy and I had no underwear this morning. If you don't want me to do laundry, don't let it get that way." and I walked away. Not another word from her.


For a man learning and standing up for himself, this is a classic example, and a true success.

However, in time, these things will include more humor, as your confidence increases.

But for now, the first step, regardless, is important just to be taking it to begin with. 

Many men NEVER get to where you are, so take heart!

Simply this, in the back of your mind, KNOW that your woman is wanting excellence from her man, and she herself is wanting to be viewed as a desirable woman.

For your to have to do the laundry, will mostly be a sting to her whether she will express this or not, so it is easy for her to point out the little bit of nothing of "beggin strip" and complain, in an attempt to mask her own embarrassment.

So you know, it is not about the "beggin strip", but so much as how you handle yourself, and in the way, how you handle the situation. 

Learn and remember this for all fitness test, not to take them literally, but see them as AMUSEMENT, and a chance for your to be creative and even over the top in your response. 

YOur woman scolds you for finding a beggin' strip in the laundry:

"Lower your voice, that's the last one and the dog has good ears."

"Keep complaining, and see how long it is before I give you another treat."

Etc etc etc. 

That is why humor is the goal, for it communicates not just that you are standing up for yourself, but that you are so much in control of yourself and the situation and clever enough you can relax and make a joke out it. 

This is where it is not just respect, but sexual attraction will flow from these things.



> I just can't believe it diffused like that and I have been responding like a dope for 12 years.


What a realization it is, when the man realizes the world doesn't end when he speaks his mind.

Keep up the good work!


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

BigBadWolf said:


> YOur woman scolds you for finding a beggin' strip in the laundry:
> 
> "Lower your voice, that's the last one and the dog has good ears."


Classic and yes this would have been the best reply.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Danny, do us a favor and open your own thread and put a little more meat on the bones of your relationship dynamic.

There are questions to be asked by those that can contribute, but best done in a separate thread.



Danny Boy said:


> So here's what would have happened to me had this been me and I had responded this way.
> 
> wife:"I can't believe you did this. You need to be more careful"
> me:"no underwear, messy laundry...next time don't let it get like this"
> ...


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> wife:"you're an effing @$$hole" or "what's up your @$$?" in a real nasty tone


This is easy:

" Well,apparently, bacon." 

Just got back from therapy. We each did the individual therapy her 1/2 session, then me. Therapist says that she really likes where I have come and feels as though I am finding my purpose. She says my wife pushes me like the items above and others because she wants me to not cower down and "win" her heart. Getting there. Looks like the anger and resentment are gone. She is just scared crapless of intimacy of any kind.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Taking the test indicates failure. In strategic game theory we look at primary and secondary gambits. A primary gambit is sort of like a first move. I never want to make a first move. I never play white in Chess. A defensive reaction is always the stronger position because the first move gives a one move advantage to your opponent. (John 'A Beautiful Mind' Nash won a Nobel for this sub functional decomposition nonlinear optimization ****).

Anyway...the best reaction is not to play. The best response move is no move. Bacon strip falls out...."mm that sucks" and just leave it at that.


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## Danny Boy (May 25, 2011)

Dedicated2Her said:


> This is easy:
> 
> " Well,apparently, bacon."
> 
> Just got back from therapy. We each did the individual therapy her 1/2 session, then me. Therapist says that she really likes where I have come and feels as though I am finding my purpose. She says my wife pushes me like the items above and others because she wants me to not cower down and "win" her heart. Getting there. Looks like the anger and resentment are gone. She is just scared crapless of intimacy of any kind.


Now that's good stuff!


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## Danny Boy (May 25, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Danny, do us a favor and open your own thread and put a little more meat on the bones of your relationship dynamic.
> 
> There are questions to be asked by those that can contribute, but best done in a separate thread.


Not enough to say to warrant a whole thread. So I'll write a little here and if the mods feel like they should move it, they can move it. I grew up in a small rural town. Never had much conflict with anyone. Always been quiet. Always been pretty intuitive and sensitive to everything going on around me. She grew up around the city and is always very,very vocal. NEVER backs down. HARDLY EVER will admit wrong doing and almost never apologizes when she's hurtful. Even when I say the words, "you hurt me". Nothing. These qualities didn't seem to come out until we got married...or at least until about when we had or first child. One second she's so, so loving and wonderful (the woman I married...they used to call her "florence nightingale" when we were in college) and the next moment she SNAPS at the most trivial thing and is yelling at me and the kids like we are dogs. It's almost like she's bipolar but somehow it always seems to be my fault if something goes wrong....and if I thought a simple change in how I react to those 180s in her behavior would make them stop or keep them from escalating I would do it. Problem is when I do, she just gets angry and starts yelling more. So, I walk away.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Danny,

You are failing the fitness tests.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Danny Boy said:


> Not enough to say to warrant a whole thread. So I'll write a little here and if the mods feel like they should move it, they can move it. I grew up in a small rural town. Never had much conflict with anyone. Always been quiet. Always been pretty intuitive and sensitive to everything going on around me. She grew up around the city and is always very,very vocal. NEVER backs down. HARDLY EVER will admit wrong doing and almost never apologizes when she's hurtful. Even when I say the words, "you hurt me". Nothing. These qualities didn't seem to come out until we got married...or at least until about when we had or first child. One second she's so, so loving and wonderful (the woman I married...they used to call her "florence nightingale" when we were in college) and the next moment she SNAPS at the most trivial thing and is yelling at me and the kids like we are dogs. It's almost like she's bipolar but somehow it always seems to be my fault if something goes wrong....and if I thought a simple change in how I react to those 180s in her behavior would make them stop or keep them from escalating I would do it. Problem is when I do, she just gets angry and starts yelling more. So, I walk away.


You mentioned that if this laundry situation happened in your house your wife would yell swear words at you. Next time that happens just look her dead in the eye and say "I'm sorry you feel that way. Let me know when you decide to behave like an adult and in the mean time, I will do my own laundry and you can do yours, that way we won't have this conflict again". Hold her gaze, then leave the room. Now the ball is in her court and you have set your boundaries. Humor works but in your situation, it would be best to let her know what will and will not be tolerated. Somebody swears at me over something petty, you bet I would stand up and say enough!


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

BigBadWolf said:


> For a man learning and standing up for himself, this is a classic example, and a true success.
> 
> However, in time, these things will include more humor, as your confidence increases.
> 
> ...


Thanks Wolf. Working hard to find balance between tenderness/giving/manliness/purpose. Slowly getting there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Thanks Wolf. Working hard to find balance between tenderness/giving/manliness/purpose. Slowly getting there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly? If my husband said for me to lower my voice cause our dogs could hear and this is the last strip, I would burst out laughing. Then I would probably try eating our laundry. That statement right there shows everything that you are looking for: Tenderness in that you didn't just erupt. Giving in that you just made me laugh. Manliness in that you were clever enough to use humor to defuse the situation. Purpose in that with that single comment, you in essence told her to chill out and took control of the situation, standing your ground. 

BBW said it better than I did. THAT would have been the perfect thing to say to her. In the future though, if in the moment you cannot find humor just tell her while staring her dead in the eyes that in the future you will do your laundry and she can do hers. If you can possibly find a small funny bone, toss in "besides, I like my laundry smelling like bacon".


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## Danny Boy (May 25, 2011)

Well, if I'm losing, I'm not playing anymore. Marriage isn't a game and if she keeps trying to get me to play she isn't going to be talking to me anymore, she's going to be talking to my attorney...who is by the way a hell of a lot smarter than hers.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Honestly? If my husband said for me to lower my voice cause our dogs could hear and this is the last strip, I would burst out laughing. Then I would probably try eating our laundry. That statement right there shows everything that you are looking for: Tenderness in that you didn't just erupt. Giving in that you just made me laugh. Manliness in that you were clever enough to use humor to defuse the situation. Purpose in that with that single comment, you in essence told her to chill out and took control of the situation, standing your ground.
> 
> BBW said it better than I did. THAT would have been the perfect thing to say to her. In the future though, if in the moment you cannot find humor just tell her while staring her dead in the eyes that in the future you will do your laundry and she can do hers. If you can possibly find a small funny bone, toss in "besides, I like my laundry smelling like bacon".


My therapist said based upon wher we are both at currently this was exactly what I needed to say. She said I can start working the humor in as we go. But, she needed to hear that based upon where she is. I guess the professional knows best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

Reading the responses and trying to learn for my own benefit. The only thing I have to add...



Dedicated2Her said:


> ...(we homeschool)...


Homeschooling is a great way for a woman to stay at home all day, and you still end up coming home to a messy house. In her mind it's justified. My wife is a wonderful cook, but her standards of housekeeping have really gone downhill. I am trying to keep the common areas of the house as clean as best I can without getting angry or upset (the basement and kids' rooms I could give a sh!t about). I try to involve the kids in the chores as much as possible. I will not live in a messy house for anyone, not even my wife.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Just thought I would add that I haven't touched laundry since last Sunday. Our house is the cleanest it's been in years. I'm surprised. I organized the garage this past weekend because there was nothing to do inside. She is ON it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Just thought I would add that I haven't touched laundry since last Sunday. Our house is the cleanest it's been in years. I'm surprised. I organized the garage this past weekend because there was nothing to do inside. She is ON it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Touch her face.... see what happens.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Touch her face.... see what happens.


Ha! I did this in the kitchen a few minutes ago. She just pulled away and looked down/ walked away. Therapist said she is too afraid of intimacy with anyone at this point. I've gotta keep easing her out of her comfort zone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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