# Corraling the Princess



## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

This thread is for the purpose of sharing times in which dealing with a strong willed woman gets in the way of my own needs/wants and dealing with it in a healthy fashion. 

Would live to hear how others are working through the "princess" issues and hear from others on thoughts as things arise. 

More background:
Married for 25 plus years to a strong willed wrench that I love dearly. I am strong willed myself but after dealing with resentment and frustration and finally deciding not to take it anymore, I am on the path to recovery. 

Her best friend suggested that I read The Way of the Superior Man. I also read No More Mr. Nice Guy. Both of those have helped me get my head on straight and reassert.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

If there is a thread that serves this purpose elsewhere, please point the way and I will delete this one. 

Latest issue hit today. We are on Memorial Day vacation at a beach house with our parents and two youngest. We have a few hours to get home for work tomorrow and the question arose from a parent as to what time we were leaving. There is no option to separate... One car. 

Princess mentioned she wanted to avoid traffic. She always wants to stay as late as possible. I mentioned that I would like to get home before dark due to work in the morning.

About 10 minutes later a parent asked princess what time we were leaving. Princess says that we are leaving around 7 PM. 

I was on my way out the door with DD to go swimming and casually threw out, "That will get us home around 9:30 that will certainly be after dark. So much for my concerns." 

Then I left with DD. 

I'm kind of pissed at myself. Should I have just told her that in line with my desire to be home by dark that I will get her an Uber to drive her back? 

Half toying with the idea. 

Not sure why I have to negotiate. Candidly, she doesn't do this stuff on purpose. She just doesn't think about what others have said and then does her own thing.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

Quick update but still interested in opinions. Princess just called and asked what we were doing for dinner. I asked why she disregarded my desire to be home before dark. She was shocked and claimed that she never heard me. 

And I believe her. Seems like half the time our issues arise because I think she has heard or understood a situation but in the end she is completely unaware of her surroundings. 

No idea when we are leaving...


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Just say: "We are leaving at X:XX pm" and just do it. Why negotiate?


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

I've been working with my therapist on how deeply seated an issue it is for me that I am often unheard, that no one listens to me. So lately I've been telling the people at work how it is and how it is going to be. 

So yeah, just say. My boss is no longer a leader. He's a politician. He smiles at the latest two divas we hired, little princesses, and says fine, whatever. One of those little diva princesses is strong-willed and expects to get her way. The other one WAS that way, but he brought her into submission. He always has to have a foil and a fawn. And then they get into trouble and I clean it up. He says for me to leave them alone and let them do as they like, and let them fall on their faces, and when they dig out from the consequences, they'll learn. But he only means that for one of them, definitely NOT the one who is his pet, his fawn, the strong-willed one who will go to daddy and he tells him the mess she made, with the expectation he'll fix it, and then he tells me to fix it. 

Not any more. Now they will be invited to meetings, called by me, and I will tell them things they need to know and if they don't comply, I will no longer clean up behind them. One of them (the boss's favorite, of course) ALMOST got the wrong way round with the boss's boss last week, and the boss didn't know how to handle it or what to do. I worked with boss's boss to achieve a resolution. Got her diva princess attention. 

A meeting is on the calendar. We do too much in an ad hoc way in my office.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I suggest you read everything you can about Authoritative Parenting. Not to say you should parent her, but to say that the concepts that guide the #1 way to raise kids also apply to maintaining your integrity in a relationship with a willful person. Basically, it's state your case - your boundaries and the consequences that will happen if the boundaries are crossed - and then calmly follow up on those consequences.

Your wife is free to be a biotch or push your buttons or whatever she wants. But you are then free to enact your consequences to protect yourself from such acts. She can take it or leave it. If she takes it, you'll respond in kind and create a loving marriage. If she pushes, she'll be unhappy with what results. And if she leaves it, well, that's her choice; you'll go find someone who WANTS to be with you.

The cool thing is that being strong, being willing to lose her if she won't respect you, will almost always result in her respecting you and, thus, desiring you and not being such a biotch. Especially with willful women.


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

My STBXW was similar. She cannot multi-task. I would have to ask, "Are you listening"? 

She is also selfish and thinks only of herself. I learned to put up with it as one of her idiosyncrasies. 

Mute point now as she is gone.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

turnera said:


> I suggest you read everything you can about Authoritative Parenting. Not to say you should parent her, but to say that the concepts that guide the #1 way to raise kids also apply to maintaining your integrity in a relationship with a willful person. Basically, it's state your case - your boundaries and the consequences that will happen if the boundaries are crossed - and then calmly follow up on those consequences.
> 
> Your wife is free to be a biotch or push your buttons or whatever she wants. But you are then free to enact your consequences to protect yourself from such acts. She can take it or leave it. If she takes it, you'll respond in kind and create a loving marriage. If she pushes, she'll be unhappy with what results. And if she leaves it, well, that's her choice; you'll go find someone who WANTS to be with you.
> 
> The cool thing is that being strong, being willing to lose her if she won't respect you, will almost always result in her respecting you and, thus, desiring you and not being such a biotch. Especially with willful women.


I completely agree with your approach. The key is not to be nasty about it.

You know, when my kids were much younger, I would give them instructions, making sure that they had their eyes on me when I gave them, and then made them repeat what I said so that I knew they heard and understood.

Now that is perhaps a bit extreme for a spouse but asking her to repeat what you said may not be a bad idea. If you're worried about being heard or understood, this is certainly a way to ensure that you are. 

She would likely find it a little insulting or condescending at first but you can explain that you are tired of going unheard and that once she demonstrates that she hears what you say, you will cease with the practice of making her repeat it. It worked well with all of my kids so perhaps it will work on a wife too. Just a thought.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I was on my way out the door with DD to go swimming and casually threw out, "That will get us home around 9:30 that will certainly be after dark. So much for my concerns."


That last sentence was passive. A covert slight to induce guilt. And when it didn't achieve the proper result it made you angry. 

You need to be more direct. And verbal. You don't need to be a d(ck. That's not the goal. You just need to say very directly what your desire is. It needs to be heard. Not inferred. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

You're not sure when you're leaving? That's the problem right there, you've forfeited control over to your wife. Just sitting there an letting her decide whats going to happen, and being upset when no one listens to you.

Get up, and tell everyone to be ready to leave at the time you specify. Tell your wife first. If she has objections or requests more time, then speak to her about your reasoning, and work it out.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Tortdog said:


> Married for 25 plus years to a strong willed wrench...


Wrench:











Wench:











Which one would you rather have loosening your nuts?...


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Wench, princess, submission? 

Your wording is curious and open to a wide interpretation, especially as you use the terms for other females.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

The fact that she makes decisions for you both without your input says she's pretty low on respect for you. The terms you use for her tell me you are respecting her less and less.

It's difficult to alter the perceptions of a strong willed woman who has consistently gotten her way throughout much of life. It requires a firmer will and zero fear to contradict her or limit options.

I second what Turnera mentioned on parenting strategies.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OP, what would you think if your wife came here and started a similar thread called Taking Care of the Little Boy?

Just as you interpret her actions through a particular lens, she likely does the same with yours.

And your last line to her was indeed passive-aggressive. If you want to get her attention, humor may be more effective, with no side effects.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> *OP, what would you think if your wife came here and started a similar thread called Taking Care of the Little Boy?
> *
> Just as you interpret her actions through a particular lens, she likely does the same with yours.
> 
> And your last line to her was indeed passive-aggressive. If you want to get her attention, humor may be more effective, with no side effects.


well she could just come her and latch on to any of your threads about little boys with capes :wink2: Sorry couldn't resist :smile2:

In all serious op sounds to me like you have a great problem of respect in your relationship. She doesn't respect you and you don't respect her. At this point if you are wanting to change something you are both going to have to come to the table and communicate. Here is the thing though you state you married a strong willed woman so I assume that is her nature. I don't really think you are going to change that by reading a couple of books like NMMNG . I think the best you can do is work out where you can communicate and compromise instead of trying to change the dynamic of who she is.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

DayOne said:


> Wrench:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know Day, mine are rather rusty. :wink2:


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

DayOne said:


> Wrench:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We noticed you have a 10 inch wrench, not a 6 inch wrench.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

The "well I guess my concerns don't matter" was passive aggressive and immature.

Next time when discussing, instead of saying you want to be home before dark, spell it out. "Let's see - I want to be home before dark since I need to work in the morning. That means dark at 8, 2 hour drive... let's plan to leave at 5:30. That will give us time to load the car, stop for gas and be home by dark." Confirm she heard you with an "OK hon?" If she pouts, ignore it. Then when the other couple asks if she said anything different you could say "Hon, I thought we agreed on 5:30? I have to work tomorrow. [then direct your statement to the other couple] Joe, we are planning to leave at 5:30".

Done. If she pouts on the way home, tell her you are the one who has to drive, unload the car and get things in order for work the next day and on non-workdays she can stay as late as she wants. Let her call the time on a Saturday, while you call the time on a Sunday (assuming M-F schedule).

But going forward, you will have to state your desires and confirm with her after to make sure she heard.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Dog, you can start by not referring to you wife as princess or wench. If you think she is a princess and think she acts like one, she will make your thoughts come true.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Blue. Love the avatar. I think that describes my brain perfectly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

To the winch, wench


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

EnjoliWoman said:


> The "well I guess my concerns don't matter" was passive aggressive and immature.
> 
> Next time when discussing, instead of saying you want to be home before dark, spell it out. "Let's see - I want to be home before dark since I need to work in the morning. That means dark at 8, 2 hour drive... let's plan to leave at 5:30. That will give us time to load the car, stop for gas and be home by dark." Confirm she heard you with an "OK hon?" If she pouts, ignore it. Then when the other couple asks if she said anything different you could say "Hon, I thought we agreed on 5:30? I have to work tomorrow. [then direct your statement to the other couple] Joe, we are planning to leave at 5:30".
> 
> ...


Nailed it.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> We noticed you have a 10 inch wrench, not a 6 inch wrench.


I don't like to brag, but.... ;-)


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

Sorry about the delay. I still want to use this thread to help me stay on track with a balanced marital relationship. 

In this case, clearly my wife had not heard my view. I reacted in a rash manner feeling she was just casually disregarding my view in favor of her wants. 

The cure would have been addressing the issue head on from the get go as opposed to avoiding the confrontation I felt would ensue (in front of her parents and mone). 

Reality was there was no confrontation to be avoided. So this was all on me. 

Lesson is to recognize the PA on my part and avoid it. 

Using princess and wench is merely part of my humor. People used the princess term in the vacation thread and wench comes from the washer wench skit at RenFest. 

Regardless, there has been a history of her just doing as she pleases. Now I'm wondering how much of that I could have avoided had I not been the "nice guy" and just expressed my views in a clear and candid fashion. 

This looks all on me...


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

alphaomega said:


> Blue. Love the avatar. I think that describes my brain perfectly.


Well, thanks, but coincidentally I just changed it back to the original before I read this. 

The TAMers have been great in helping me and I think I have turned the corner, so I no longer wanted to see myself as closed for maintenance. You are welcome to take it. Just google it and look under images.

Sorry to TJ.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

@Tortdog, I am not sure how much of this applies to a PA situation, but I am in a codependent situation. A great TAMer suggested I read the book in my signature below. Last night I read the section in the book that talked about "Reacting" vs "Acting". For much of my marital relationship I have *reacted* to what my wife said or did, rather than taking the *action *that was appropriate. Your action should have been to tell her the time that the family needs to leave so that you can drive home SAFER while there is still daylight. 

I mention this because you just posted "I *reacted* in a rash manner feeling she was just casually disregarding my view in favor of her wants. "


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

@blueinbr

Thanks so much. 

The longer I post here, the more I start to think that I am the screwed up person in our relationship.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Tortdog said:


> @blueinbr
> 
> Thanks so much.
> 
> The longer I post here, the more I start to think that I am the screwed up person in our relationship.


You are not screwed up, at least not any more than the rest of us. 

You are just identifying areas for improvement in yourself. I am sure your wife has PLENTY that she can improve on too. 

It will help in the future to explain WHY you want to do something. That will bolster your case. Your wife obviously wanted to maximize her time with the parents. That is VERY understandable. And a valid reason to leave later. Your reason for leaving earlier was what? You need to get enough sleep before work the next day. 

I have bad night vision, so driving in daylight means safer AND I can drive faster when I see farther so driving in daylight gets me there faster - less time in the car. That is why I tell wife we leave earlier. She rides as passenger and often SLEEPS, something you as driver cannot do.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Tortdog said:


> I'm kind of pissed at myself. Should I have just told her that in line with my desire to be home by dark that I will get her an Uber to drive her back?


No, You should have told her when you were planning on leaving.

The Uber thing would have just been passive aggressive.

Oddly enough, chicks seem to dig assertive men.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tort dog,

What works best with M2 - is - three steps:
1. Gently get her undivided attention 
2. Use the phrase: Babe, this is important to me
3. Request explicit acknowledgement via: You ok with that?






Tortdog said:


> @blueinbr
> 
> Thanks so much.
> 
> The longer I post here, the more I start to think that I am the screwed up person in our relationship.


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