# Anger is brewing



## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

SO I took y'alls advice and the advice of my friends.... 
I gave this to my husband last night it was in a better paragraph form but for here I took out spaces:::::: (read till the end))

_When you get a change, worth the read... also there are some excellent sites out there to how romance (free romance) plays into emotional intimacy  The first article is about emotional intimacy versus sex.
http://www.forgingbonds.org/files_images/general/Four Needs Chapt 1 PDF.pdf
Do some research on the importance of intimacy (not sexual intimacy for women) it's all over the internet.... romance is an integral part of this.... 
You used to do this a lot when we were first dating, but I think you got in the habit of doing it to get sex... now that I am offering more freely, the longer effort on your part to "warm me up" and I don't necessarily mean sexually... has wanned... almost dissapated... 
I used to love it when you would play with my hair, I can't even tell the last time you did that... hugs were longer, kisses longer and more passionate and not just when I was leaving. (Groping is not being romantic). Romantic would be planning a night just the two of us, even doing something free, and planning it yourself. Romantic would be the suggestion I gave you of sending me a song (and whistle, is sexually related it doesn't count). 
I am just being real about my needs. I have tried to skirt the issue, drop hints, and after seeking some advice have been told i just need to be blunt at this point. I also don't want to tell you what to do, I want you to put forth effort, just like I have to satisfy your sexual needs... 
After reading that article i see why we went down the no sex path to begin with, because you are so consumed with sexual acts, you miss the simple loving acts. And I don't mean things that are expected in a marriage, like helping with the house, the kids, etc.... I need to still feel like a woman. Turn your head in a subtle manner, with a sly look, like i used to. Not a sexual comment.... 
I think once you do some research you will understand what I am talking about. And after reading several articles myself, I am one who desires uninterupted talk time, like you like chill time, I like talk time. In addition I am not one who needs many words of affection but showing, I love your little notes when you do them. 
I don't expect nor want a response to this email. I am going to bed. I just want you to soak it in, read some articles, and think for yourself as I had to to correct our lack of sexual intimacy.... I need emotional intimacy from you and simple question and answer games, while fun and worked at the time, isn't enough. Just like you need sex on an ongoing basis, I need romantic gestures and closeness.... _

So today he tells me all day how tonight is going to be so romantic.... I did have a bit of drama with family calling, but got that all squared away and asked him what he had planned. He says come here, leads me to the bedroom where he has the cards out to play strip poker? really? WTF am I missing?????


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

livelaughlovenow said:


> He says come here, leads me to the bedroom where he has the cards out to play strip poker? really? WTF am I missing?????


Well, it's a start, isn't it? Part of romance is spontaneity, and it looks like he certainly surprised you. That's good!

But I must be missing something too. What happened next? I find it hard to believe you saw the cards, then immediately left to tell everyone at TAM!


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I saw the cards, was dissappointed he was again making it about sex.... because he saw my expression and said, how about plan b, or are you even in the mood.... I said no. Denied him for the first time in a while.... then he said let's snuggle on the couch and watch tv... I don't think he got the "non sexual" part of emotional intimacy at all... so now I don't know what to do. If you read my previous threads you will see the history.

ETA: I don't think you got my email to him either about non sexual romance and intimacy. his poker game is a sexual game... you strip and then do acts to the other person. I want more than sex.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

He doesn't get it! But I really don't think you get him any better than he gets you. Your both talking but nobody understands. He takes your words and interprets them in a way that makes sense to him but does not please you. He tried. The more he tries the more he fails the worse you both feel and the cycle continues.I understand you want these things to come from him...his ideas... but he is giving you his ideas and they are not what you want yet you continue to resist telling him directly what you want when you want it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

inarut said:


> He doesn't get it! But I really don't think you get him any better than he gets you. Your both talking but nobody understands. He takes your words and interprets them in a way that makes sense to him but does not please you. He tried. The more he tries the more he fails the worse you both feel and the cycle continues.I understand you want these things to come from him...his ideas... but he is giving you his ideas and they are not what you want yet you continue to resist telling him directly what you want when you want it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


inarut... was my email not blunt enough to say what I want? I gave suggestions without giving complete ideas... I told him what he used to do... I gave an article to show him it isn't just me, it's a female thing... this is why I have been asking for help on here. I have totally changed in the last year and half with regards to meeting his needs. Should I have gone along and played the game???


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

To be honest with you....I find I am much more successful with my big guy if I tell him exactly what I want...in detail. You know we all have our strengths and our weaknesses....sometimes I think we forget that. Not every man is going to be great at communicating with his words but he may be great at communicating with his gestures. My point is that you need to try and see how your husband is trying to communicate his love to you......you might be surprised he might be romancing you all along and you have been missing it because it just hasn't been the way you thought it should be done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

You could have said thank you for planing this for us. It means so much to me. Its a great idea that would be fun for another night but this doesn't meet my need for intimacy. Why don't we (fll in the blank.) 

It is a female thing. He is a male and men equate sex with intimacy. In his mind the game included sex and talk so you are both pleased. You weren't and that's perfectly fine. So take the lead until he learns.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

My big guy planned a romantic night for me when I got home from work ....he had a blanket drug out to the livingroom with a wine glass ready in his hand and fire built in the fireplace...guess what was on his mind? To him that was his way of saying I love you. After we made love he made dinner and we watched a movie and cuddled on the sofa. That is the way some men say they love you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ManUp (Nov 25, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> inarut... was my email not blunt enough to say what I want? I gave suggestions without giving complete ideas... I told him what he used to do... I gave an article to show him it isn't just me, it's a female thing... this is why I have been asking for help on here. I have totally changed in the last year and half with regards to meeting his needs. Should I have gone along and played the game???


My wife and I bump heads on this all the time. She says something that she thinks I should understand completely only to be disappointed when it becomes obvious I heard everything though my male filter. I read your note above and knew instinctively he was going to screw it up. We're kinda dumb. We need specific examples and action to follow. 

My wife told me that she wants me to 'woo' her. She got mad when I said "show me how.". Our counsellor told her I asked a reasonable request. I can't be expected to know what romance looks like to her without being shown. Because romance to me looks like something completely different, usually something sexual. 

Take him by the hand. Tell him you enjoyed his creativity, but you were looking for something simpler and show him what romance looks like to you. Hold his hand in the car. Have him stroke your hair. whatever it is. And tell him every time, "this is what I want" 

Both sexes have to practise these things. I'll bet his idea of romance is if you surprised him with a blowjob one night on the couch while watching TV. Just saying...


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> inarut... was my email not blunt enough to say what I want? I gave suggestions without giving complete ideas... I told him what he used to do... I gave an article to show him it isn't just me, it's a female thing... this is why I have been asking for help on here. I have totally changed in the last year and half with regards to meeting his needs. Should I have gone along and played the game???



Honestly, no... I've been dealing with similar issues with my partner, and I don't think it was nearly blunt enough. To me, it sounds like he _tried_ to do exactly what you asked; took some time and planned some alone time for you and him, which he probably thought WAS romantic... and you rejected him. 

I completely understand where you're coming from, because my partner does similar things and it drives me nuts too, but all you've probably accomplished with the whole thing is confusing him. Did you go over with him WHY you were less than enthusiastic about his efforts? If not, he probably doesn't get where he went wrong.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

ManUp said:


> My wife and I bump heads on this all the time. She says something that she thinks I should understand completely only to be disappointed when it becomes obvious I heard everything though my male filter. I read your note above and knew instinctively he was going to screw it up. We're kinda dumb. We need specific examples and action to follow.
> 
> My wife told me that she wants me to 'woo' her. She got mad when I said "show me how.". Our counsellor told her I asked a reasonable request. I can't be expected to know what romance looks like to her without being shown. Because romance to me looks like something completely different, usually something sexual.
> 
> ...



Well said! And sometimes women are "kinda dumb" in terms of understanding men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

(o: My husband has a more romantic relationship with his golf clubs and his dog than he does me. 

I try to initiate romantic things I like...playing our song and trying to get him to dance in the kitchen with me. Sometimes I wonder....what the hell do I have to do to get him to see I just want to be treated like I'm treasured. Seriously, look me in the eyes Like I'm more than your lunch maker. Tell me I look pretty. Tell me I'm your girl. HELLO. 

I mean...this is stuff he did when he was wooing me. Where did it go? I hate to say this but since he's decided to stop...treasuring me...I've sort of stopped the surprise BJ's and everything else. I really feel pathetic trying to get him to hug/hold/love on me by "performing." 

I've been in a low sex marriage for about 3.5 years.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Well, I'm a woman and I don't really understand what you want him to do, so I'm not surprised he doesn't either.

The only really concrete example you gave him was to plan something for you to do together, didn't have to be expensive. And he did that. And then you didn't want to do that, so he suggested cuddling and watching tv. And that's no good either. 

Vague stuff like "be more romantic" "be spontaneous" is pretty useless. He likes having sex with you, to him that is romantic and a good way to connect. So he planned that as part of his evening. But you seem to be completely divorcing sexual and emotional intimacy which probably makes very little sense to him - it doesn't make much sense to me either. 

I don't know. You sound dissatisfied. You might need to spend some more time talking about it.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I've been married for 21 years.

My husband was romantic while he was wooing me like most men are. But once he caught me that was over. Oh I still get flowers, gifts on the appropriate holidays, he tells me he loves me, vacations and dinners out but that's about it. If I wanted flowery words I had to coax those out of him.

Got pissed about this early on and set out to enlighten (aka change) him. What resulted was he eventually checked out because I successfully made him feel like nothing he did was good enough for me. I know some men are boneheads but my husband wasn't one of them. He was a good man and I put him down and rejected him because he failed to live up to my expectations.

After much work I got my husband back. He gropes, is goofy, and largely acts like a horny 18 year old boy. I've chosen to love him anyway. I accept that sex to him IS love. The irony is the more sex he gets the more romantic he is. Yesterday alone he called me three times to tell me how great I am. 

Again my disclaimer....this only works if you're married to a good guy. The rest I'll leave to the other experts here.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I've been married for 21 years.
> 
> My husband was romantic while he was wooing me like most men are. But once he caught me that was over. Oh I still get flowers, gifts on the appropriate holidays, he tells me he loves me, vacations and dinners out but that's about it. If I wanted flowery words I had to coax those out of him.
> 
> ...


This is very interesting, Mrs. Mavash. How did you get him back, after your earlier strategy backfired? Not many people are that successful like you to undid a wrong move in a marriage.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Well I don't know if he reread my email or what but this morning he woke me up all sweet, instead of saying "get up" he cuddled and rubbed my back and held me close to wake me up... maybe my rejection of his sex game caused him to do more what I consider non sexual romantic gestures... I will take the advice you all have given give him more direct examples and things when we spend our evening together tonight... he is going out of town for the weekend.. One of you brought up a good point that I don't seem to understand him exactly... I think you are correct... he says one thing and then to me does another, but I think you are correct also in that he tried to surprise me, I guess after sleeping on it, the thing that ticked me off was it was a sexual thing, instead of a nonsexual intimacy time.... the cuddling on the couch was nice... he hasnt done that in a while. So I guess (especially from you men) he is trying.. and it seems I need to give him some credit and apologize for last night and explain.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

Did you tell him this morning that what was doing is exactly the kind of thing you need and want?


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

That strip poker thing was HOT! I would LOVE if my H did that! Think I'll text him that if he ever wants to do that just "lay the cards out on the table." LOL!


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

dormant said:


> Did you tell him this morning that what was doing is exactly the kind of thing you need and want?


Yes I did, and I explained why I was upset last night, he said he understood. He even texted me a song today, so I think he definitely reread or rethought about my email. We will see.

to the poster who commented it is a hot game, yes it is, because once you are naked whoever loses owes the other some sort of act, you play as long as you can without actual intercourse.... but in this situation my husband missed the point when I specifially said NON sexual romance. Normally I bite at the game, but after several posts on here, about sending him mixed signals with giving him the sex and not getting what I want in return... but yes it is a cool game, sometimes we add little props to use too, toys, a feather, etc.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> inarut... was my email not blunt enough to say what I want? I gave suggestions without giving complete ideas... I told him what he used to do... I gave an article to show him it isn't just me, it's a female thing... this is why I have been asking for help on here. I have totally changed in the last year and half with regards to meeting his needs. Should I have gone along and played the game???


A MAN WANTS SEX...I KNOW WHAT SEX IS, YOU KNOW WHAT SEX IS....EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THE HELL SEX IS....WHAT IS ROMANCE???????????

If romance involves TOUCH....How much TOUCH...and where....Is it a caress or a grope????? 

Is the song romantic or suggestive???? 

Is he giving you the card to be romantic or because he wants to get laid????????

Is he massaging me, or is it a serial GROPE??????

Do I have to (does he expect me to)give him sex because he gave me these roses??????

I am afraid many times when women say the want romance, the are really saying I really don't want to be approached for sex, and I am using romance (lack of) as a barrier.....

Because I can always say "That wasn't romantic enough" or "he is not being romantic because he has an ulterior motive"......And of course that makes any romantic act * "NULL AND VOID*"

Men always have THAT ulterior motive...Right to to the day someone confiscates his testicles.....

One of the most maddening things my wife used to say to me was "I will have sex with you when you have treated me well enough for long enough"......

How well is well enough, and how long is long enough??????

That is an open ended "No sex for" you statement......

Stop overthinking sex vs. romance, and perhaps if you forget well enough for long enough you will have both......

Have seen it all
the woodchuck


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Strip poker for romance? Epic Fail!

I understood what your email was asking for. I thought you did great pointing out specific examples of things he has done that have worked for you.

I just don't understand how men can be so effing stupid sometimes! Because she is here trying to figure it out and he is keeping his head up his ass. Why isn't he here also trying to figure it out? My wife is unhappy what should I do? Or my wife is unhappy, what a b!tch!

Mr. Pinks epic fails at romance:

Sets up a bottle of champaign pool side. Lights candles around the pool. Sounds lovely! Wakes me out of a sound sleep at midnight, tells me I have to come outside to see something. I'm still half asleep, it is a cold night and the pool water was frigid! I don't even see the candles or champaign before he pushes me into the pool. The man is a polar bear and I'm always cold! Okay excellent idea, execution-epic fail..

Another time he called me to come take a bath with him...warm water right? He had just taken a dump! Epic Fail..

But there have been some BRILLIANT Grade A, something to remember and tell the grand kids about, enormously fabulous times. We build on the fabulous and forgive and laugh about the fails.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Strip poker for romance? Epic Fail!
> 
> I understood what your email was asking for. I thought you did great pointing out specific examples of things he has done that have worked for you.
> 
> ...


These examples sound like the makings of a hilarious movie. :rofl: Maybe you could accumulate them and write a script.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Oh well come to find out after a conversation today he never even read the email, or the article until today..... guess it shows where I am on his priority list.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Now that is just wrong. What are you going to do about this?


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

The first post I did LOL but this last post I just lost all my humor. I am sorry no one likes to feel rejected I will say that even tho he did not read your email or article he has started to behave how you wanted so take the good with the bad. Relationship are like hiking in the mountains sometimes you are in valleys sometimes on the peaks you go up and down but as long as you are moving in a direction you are happy to go in then you are doing okay. Who wants to just camp? In the future I would itemize it out for him with numbers and bullet points I know that seems excessively scientific but it is a method all guys get.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Now that is just wrong. What are you going to do about this?


Well when I asked him if he read it and he said no... he went and immediately read it and it opened up a decent dialog. He realized why last night blew up in his face (because I had assumed since it was sent hte night before and he jumps all over other peoples emails) that he would've read it. The last part about women seeking emotional fulfillment elsewhere seemed to bother him and he said that is the last thing he wants, admitted to being "me me me" for the last year and ignoring the things I had brought up before. I questioned him on a couple things to make sure he really understood. He was sweeter today afterwards, but I did want to update everyone on here, because I was getting such mixed responses... However, I doubt he will ignore an email from me in the future. I think it is something he isn't good at because love was not shown freely to him growing up.... the more I thought about it today the more it made sense. I also told him far more in our conversation then I did in the email, how I think it's screwed up he will schedule me a sitter to take a class (sitting in for him) but wont schedule a sitter for us to take a walk on the beach, or even around the damn neighborhood. I told him I would even be happy going fishing with him, something we used to always do, just to have the quality time, and that to me, tv time doesn't count (there is far too much of that going on in my home- i am seriously about to disconnect cable). I do believe we had a very open and honest discussion today, I asked again if he had any issues in our relationship, he said no, except that "you are unhappy now" I said I am not unhappy per se, I want improvements, just like he did over a year ago. I asked him if he had any issues with my improvements (I was very direct today as you can imagine I was a bit heated from the fact that he hadn't even read the email at all) He said he was going to think about everything too a bit more over the weekend while he is away.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

This will sound weird but come up with 3 specific things he can do to make you happy per week.

Like

1: Try to plan for a date night sometimes they do not happen but tell him you want him to try even if it is fishing or a drive a night.

2: One dinner by candlelight once a week when the kids are in bed with wine. Does not have to be fancy but it gives you time to connect with just the two of you.

3: One hug every day "no groping" that lasts for at least 20 seconds while he is hugging you he is to tell you things about you that he loves.

This will help you get ACTIONS not just words and really will help him be able to feel like he is doing something right. You could also add at lease on orgasm a week for YOU or however many you want


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

CEL said:


> This will sound weird but come up with 3 specific things he can do to make you happy per week.
> 
> Like
> 
> ...


Funny a couple of those where things he suggested yesterday... date nights (even if they are at home) and more hugging and just closeness... again after he finally read the info. lol  Thank you for the input though


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

It's ironic reading through your letter..... as I have told mine to GROPE me more , talk down & dirtier ...BE OVERT about it... getting out the Strip Poker would be Exciting for me ! 

Where I've never had to ask for more affection, twirling of the hair (he's always done this for hours when we watch a movie, anytime I am near)....the cuddling/ closeness.. couldn't ask for more .... though I've bought books like this for mine >>

Just F**k Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom  ...... I bet yours can do this just fine!

It almost seems from reading so many stories here.... some men seem naturally geared one way or another in these things....I know mine is so HIGH on the sensual Romantic end ....he even struggles for a happy medium going the other direction ...(though I can live with this- I just play the Aggressor) ....

Maybe yours is geared the opposite and he too struggles to come to this happy medium place and stay there...he might not get what all the fuss is about.... just not on his radar so much...which is very unfortunate....when a wife craves MORE in this area....he doesn't require as much -but wants to live it being more Overt sexually instead... it's the old standby issue between men & women.....really. 

But he WAS this way in the beginning...I bet some women may call this a bait & switch at times....(just speaking out loud, not suggesting this).... 

Sounds like he is putting forth some effort now that's he's read the article.... I wonder where he would fall on this Romantic scale... THEN and now >>

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ll-these-5-examples-has-changed-over-yrs.html

It's something to work towards.. My husband won't really read on his own, but we'll read together, and talk about it all.....maybe something you 2 can do together, get outside....take a blanket... laying under a tree with a book in hand... reading about reviving the Romance...or the Laptop in hand...reading this thread even..

When I 1st started posting here, I shared every answer with my husband...when I was trying to get him to go the other way...Up some of the Alpha. 

What we did is ... I started a







...you could call yours "*the Romance Jar*" ... write out little desired scenarios on snippets of paper , drop them in...those things you'd love him to DO with you, to you... show his emotional side.. places to go.. and in his time, he can enact them out on you! 

Just a thought!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

The romance jar, love this idea!

I can see Mr. Pink now... pulls out a piece of paper, reads it, clears his throat then says in his best classroom lecturer voice. "give your wife a compliment... hmmmm. You are a good cook? Oh right a personal compliment. How about...I like your hair, because it is nice."


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Go to Amazon and buy a book of romantic things to do for your wife. Thumb through it and highlite the things you would find fulfill your romantic need. Give it to him and tell him to use this as a starting point.

I know this isn't what you want, but it's a starting place. Knowing this stuff innately is not part of the hardwiring of most men. You have to train him. He doesn't think like you do, he doesn't need the same things you do, and he doesn't even know how to be the man you want him to be. So what if you already know what's coming ahead of time? It's romance boot camp and you're the gunny sergeant. 

If he's worth his salt, eventually the positive feedback and mind expanding sex he gets as a result will teach him the necessity of doing this on his own, or at least get him to buy a second book without showing it to you. 

Assuming you know how to give a blow job, how did you learn? Probably by doing it wrong, getting feedback, listening to instruction, and incorporating that into your technique. Romance for some men has to follow this same course. It's natural to you, and hard for him.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

livelaughlovenow, It seems like you and he are both willing to put in work to make the relationship better but neither of you know's exactly what to do.

personally I think "*His Needs / Her Needs*" is a book that would help a lot. One of themes of the book is how trying hard isn't enough. It's about knowing what each other needs and trying to do that rather than doing for each other what you want in return.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> One of themes of the book is how trying hard isn't enough. It's about knowing what each other needs and trying to do that rather than doing for each other what you want in return.


Right. To accomplish this, you need to let go of the "he should just be able to figure it out on his own or it's not special" mentality.

I always preferred the Plantinum Rule to the Golden Rule: Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Right. To accomplish this, you need to let go of the "he should just be able to figure it out on his own or it's not special" mentality.
> 
> I always preferred the Plantinum Rule to the Golden Rule: *Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.*


Yes that.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Just keep applying time, patience, love, and radical honesty. You are getting somewhere. It just goes slowly. The reason it is starting to turn around is because you are bravely being assertive enough for him to understand you. Keep it up.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> Funny a couple of those where things he suggested yesterday... date nights (even if they are at home) and more hugging and just closeness... again after he finally read the info. lol  Thank you for the input though


It sounds like he's validating your feelings which is a great start.

Are you open to leading by example? Plan a couple of date nights yourself and experience together how it brings you closer by having that time, intimacy and element of surprise. Maybe you could help inspire him and reignite what you're missing.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

It sounds like you have a good man, and he has a good woman. If you feel you are not being understood, or your needs are being ignored and/or neglected, stop. I mean stop, and tell him "we need to talk about something, and make sure we both have the same understanding about what is going on". You don't have to agree about what to do about it. But the stakes are too high to spend any amount of time reacting to different "realities".


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