# Why would you NOT be transparent?



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

So often we read of the value of transparency, especially in marriage. I am a definite believer in this. And yet I get the feeling that many people resist transparency.

If you are not transparent with your spouse, why not?


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Nope, because if she really knew what I wanted to do she would freak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Because you have something to hide from them.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I agree OP, I'm always transparent with my hubby. People who aren't obviously have something to hide and/or are probably on their way out of the marriage.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Only time I am not transparent and hide things are around birthday, Christmas, and valentines day. Otherwise open book.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thound said:


> Nope, because if she really knew what I wanted to do she would freak.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is it because you want something bad?


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Because I've grown reluctant to tell him things that might set him to stewing and brooding if he hears something he doesn't like. 

We're working on it, but honestly we've both questioned whether some things are better left unsaid.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It sounds like to be transparent, we have to have trust it won't be used against us.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

jld said:


> Is it because you want something bad?


In a normal marriage, no. Good girl syndrome.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thound said:


> In a normal marriage, no. Good girl syndrome.


Well, I would encourage you to be transparent. She may surprise you. Eventually.

And even if she cannot accept what you want, at least she knows the real you. Do you really want to hide that? Isn't it a heavy load to carry?


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

jld said:


> Well, I would encourage you to be transparent. She may surprise you. Eventually.
> 
> And even if she cannot accept what you want, at least she knows the real you. Do you really want to hide that? Isn't it a heavy load to carry?


I've learned to live with it. She's menopausal now so meh.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

jld said:


> It sounds like to be transparent, we have to have trust it won't be used against us.


I think you also have to believe that it will do some good. You can be transparent til you're blue in the face, but if it does no good I think you can eventually give up on it. I mean, if telling your spouse how you feel over and over and over and over again gets no results, why keep at it? 

I think the key to successful transparency is having someone who is actually listening and understanding and giving a damn.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Because words can hurt and they can't be taken back.

Because feelings are not always reasonable or based on truth. 

Because sometimes things don't need to be spoken to be understood.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I've never been transparent but I'm learning.

The key is trust. Not just the obvious trust we need in order to confide our deepest and darkest. But the trust and faith WE have for our partner that whatever it is, they will come to be okay with having heard it. It won't rock their foundation off the hook.

Like GettingIt said, confiding some things could set them to brooding, could sake their foundation. But if we show some trust in them being able to bounce back, being strong enough to hear our thoughts and not think badly of us OR themselves for having heard it, that's the kind of trust that is hard to build.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lyris said:


> Because words can hurt and they can't be taken back. This is true. But sometimes they reveal things that can be explored, like deeper issues, that can then be resolved. Relationships can be made stronger, even though the words may initially sting.
> 
> Because feelings are not always reasonable or based on truth. Sure, emotions are often like that. But we have emotions for a reason. Usually they are trying to alert us to something inside that needs to be resolved.
> 
> Because sometimes things don't need to be spoken to be understood. Transparency is for sure not just verbal. Our body language reveals a lot about us.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thound said:


> I've learned to live with it. She's menopausal now so meh.


I would still encourage you to consider it.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lyris said:


> Because words can hurt and they can't be taken back.
> 
> Because feelings are not always reasonable or based on truth.
> 
> Because sometimes things don't need to be spoken to be understood.


Words can hurt and can't be unheard, true! This is something I'm working on cause my mouth runs faster than my filter some times.

Feelings, true again! I have found, very recently I might add, that sharing irrational feelings is okay! It helps.

The last one. Not with my husband! Even speaking the words doesn't mean he will understand.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I was thinking more about me understanding him. I have learned to understand him without needing him to explain himself to me. It's important when you're married to someone like my husband.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lyris said:


> I was thinking more about me understanding him. I have learned to understand him without needing him to explain himself to me. It's important when you're married to someone like my husband.


OMG!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

You new sig line!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> The last one. Not with my husband! *Even speaking the words doesn't mean he will understand.*


Lol, AP. Too true.


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

jld said:


> So often we read of the value of transparency, especially in marriage. I am a definite believer in this. And yet I get the feeling that many people resist transparency.
> 
> If you are not transparent with your spouse, why not?


Transparency requires the ability to be vulnerable with your partner. Why do partners resist vulnerability and withhold aspects of themselves?

Because deep down in that place few chose to examine they believe they are not enough. (Brene Brown)


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I think you also have to ask, "For whom am I being transparent, and who does it benefit?"

If I'm insisting on being transparent to my husband, and he's telling me that it's causing him anxiety or other difficulties, yet I continue to do it at the level that *I* want to do it . . . well, then I don't think it's serving a positive purpose to the marriage. I might be satisfied with my level of transparency, but to ignore my husband's discomfort is unfair. 

By the same token, if my husband is asking for more transparency than I'm comfortable giving and I just flat out refuse to consider his feelings and work with him, then that is not fair either. 

Every marriage is different: full blown two-way transparency is great if BOTH spouses are on board with it. Otherwise, fitting it into the marriage in a productive and meaningful way is a process that requires communication and willingness to compromise.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> OMG!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> You new sig line!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Yep. I'm aaaaaaaaallll about the trivia


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

The fear or lack of transparency in intimate relationships sometimes stem from childhood issues.

It takes emotional maturity to love and become vulnerable, being transparent can make people feel vulnerable at times.

If you are not transparent with your partner, then it isn't your partner's issue, but yours. 

If your partner can't handle the truth , that's _their _ issue , not yours.

Problems have solutions.

Successful couples are the ones that work on their problems, 
Together.


----------



## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

As a man, I've learned that transparency is only effective when you have a plan. 

This is good: "Honey, here is a problem. I was worried about it at first, too, but now I have a plan to get us through it."

This is bad: "Honey, here is a problem. Help me! We're all going to die!" *sobs into hands*


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think we train people how to treat us, and this is a good example of that. If, when you're first together, your spouse is transparent; and you respond to that transparency by being judgmental or critical then what you're doing is encouraging them to not be transparent. You're "training" them to keep you in the dark about their real feelings.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think we train people how to treat us, and this is a good example of that. If, when you're first together, your spouse is transparent; and you respond to that transparency by being judgmental or critical then what you're doing is encouraging them to not be transparent. You're "training" them to keep you in the dark about their real feelings.


I think this is right. This is exactly right. 

On the other hand, I also think that we, ourselves, are not always the best judge on who is criticizing us and who is not.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I also feel strongly that my mind is my private place and I really don't want or need to show everything that goes on there.

For me what works best is to say I chose this person. I love this person without reservations exactly as he is right now.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think we train people how to treat us, and this is a good example of that. If, when you're first together, your spouse is transparent; and you respond to that transparency by being judgmental or critical then what you're doing is encouraging them to not be transparent. You're "training" them to keep you in the dark about their real feelings.


Just want to also point out that you cannot tell by the words I have wrote here whether I am the victim of this offense, or the perpetrator, or both. I actually suspect that we are ALL both at least to some degree, which makes me think that true transparency is an illusion.


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think we train people how to treat us, and this is a good example of that. If, when you're first together, your spouse is transparent; and you respond to that transparency by being judgmental or critical then what you're doing is encouraging them to not be transparent. You're "training" them to keep you in the dark about their real feelings.


Working on me, I really respect your response, but I disagree. I have found that the longer hubs and I are married the MORE transparent we have become...in the early days we were more guarded and sneaky....The longer we are together we know how much more we would loose if we WERE NOT transparent. That is just us though. I mean hubs and I even talk about who ever passes first and giving each other a blessing to move forward with another...are we that obtuse?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I think this is right. This is exactly right.
> 
> On the other hand, I also think that we, ourselves, are not always the best judge on who is criticizing us and who is not.


True. And sometimes criticizing is a cover up for one's own embarrassment.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MSP said:


> As a man, I've learned that transparency is only effective when you have a plan.
> 
> This is good: "Honey, here is a problem. I was worried about it at first, too, but now I have a plan to get us through it."
> 
> This is bad: "Honey, here is a problem. Help me! We're all going to die!" *sobs into hands*


How about this: 

This is bad: "Honey, here is a problem. Let's work on this together." No sobbing into hands, no automatic assumption of sudden death.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> Transparency requires the ability to be vulnerable with your partner. Why do partners resist vulnerability and withhold aspects of themselves?
> 
> Because deep down in that place few chose to examine they believe they are not enough. (Brene Brown)


So people do not feel worthy of being transparent with their partners?


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> So often we read of the value of transparency, especially in marriage. I am a definite believer in this. And yet I get the feeling that many people resist transparency.
> 
> If you are not transparent with your spouse, why not?


Even though I am HUGE on Transparency...I call it a "willing" Transparency, cause if it has to be asked for or forced, it all falls to the ground and I don't consider that anything but pulling teeth... 

I GET why many can not LIVE it ...even if they wanted to... (I do find it a shame though).... an overly sensitive spouse, one who twists what we say, those can not forgive a wayward thought and hold it over our heads....making a mountain out of a mole hill...and bringing it back up in every argument.. those who suddenly throw their hands in the air and refuse to listen when it gets uncomfortable & tell you what a horrible person you are..


I touched on this in my Transparency thread 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...parency-what-means-our-marraige-what-you.html 



> If 100% transparency was being practiced & lived, one thing is certain.... there would be NO questioning of the motives of the spouse....the husband or wife would already be clued into the state of their hearts .....whether it be with them or  in a state of wavering, uncertainty during that time. .... Admitting such is also a part of true Transparency. It is not all flowers & spice & everything nice.....
> 
> There are many reasons why it can never be practiced.... one is - the majority EXPECT near perfection from their spouses. This is a grave grave error. Another is the shaking fear of *vulnerability*, we want no part of it.
> 
> ...





> *Caribbean Man said* : *The fear or lack of transparency in intimate relationships sometimes stem from childhood issues*.
> 
> *It takes emotional maturity to love and become vulnerable, being transparent can make people feel vulnerable at times.*
> 
> ...


I haven't taken the time (yet) to read through these posts.. but as usual - I have to agree with CM !!


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SA--_"I GET why many can not LIVE it...even if they wanted to... (I do find it a shame though).... an overly sensitive spouse, one who twists what we say, those can not forgive a wayward thought and hold it over our heads....making a mountain out of a mole hill...and bringing it back up in every argument.. those who suddenly throw their hands in the air and refuse to listen when it gets uncomfortable & tell you what a horrible person you are.."_

You know, I know where you are coming from, SA, but I just could not do this myself. Lying is such a weight. Hiding is a weight, too. 

With my spouse, I am just not willing to carry these weights. I understand that other people are (not you), but I am just too lazy, I think.


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Jung_admirer said:


> Transparency requires the ability to be vulnerable with your partner. Why do partners resist vulnerability and withhold aspects of themselves?
> 
> Because deep down in that place few chose to examine they believe they are not enough. (Brene Brown)


This is very true, transparency requires to be vulnerable. It also requires tremendous trust. Someone transparent gives trust and this does not go unnoticed. The partner may choose at first to hold back. But with persistence he/she will give that trust as well.

This is what I experienced with my wife. She was transparent, I was more restrained. She showed me the path!


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Duguesclin said:


> This is very true, transparency requires to be vulnerable. It also requires tremendous trust. *Someone transparent gives trust and this does not go unnoticed. The partner may choose at first to hold back. But with persistence he/she will give that trust as well.*
> 
> This is what I experienced with my wife. She was transparent, I was more restrained. She showed me the path!


:iagree:

I would really encourage everyone to take a leap of faith and just start being transparent. You don't know where it might lead. I think chances are high it will lead someplace very good!


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *You know, I know where you are coming from, SA, but I just could not do this myself. Lying is such a weight. Hiding is a weight, too.
> 
> With my spouse, I am just not willing to carry these weights. I understand that other people are (not you), but I am just too lazy, I think*.


You know what is funny about your comment....ME TOO!... it's like a weight... I describe it a little different... like something I can't swallow, I may try ..but it keeps coming back up....but that's GOOD!!

This is a great write up on the POWER of Secrets...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/articles/993-sex-lies-secrets-secrecy-destroying-your-marriage.html.. this is how I explained it below (my post to that thread)...



> *SimpyAmorous said* : I have a very very very hard time keeping ANYTHING from my husband, I am a complete & utter open book before him. He would be the 1st to tell anyone it is one of the things he loves about me the most.
> 
> If I do something wrong/naughty/stupid in a weak moment, which I have on occasion, crossing lines I should not be crossing, I seriously CAN NOT live with myself until I have told him & bared my heart -to why. It eats at me, like something I swallowed that my stomach can not except, it has to come back up. My record is 3 days. Nothing I have done he felt was all that earth shattering in the scheme of life & marriage. He has even chuckled about it after the fact. We both laugh. He has always been very understanding & immediately forgiving. If you have a spouse like THIS, it makes it MUCH easier to bare you soul.
> 
> ...


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks for reposting that. 

I would absolutely not have married someone I could not have been completely transparent with. And I was just advising my daughter tonight to do the same. 

If a man could not handle total honesty from me, better he not be in my life. He would be better off with someone else.

You know, I love my dh, but I love my own integrity more.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Lyris said:


> I also feel strongly that my mind is my private place and I really don't want or need to show everything that goes on there.


This.

Besides, manipulation is more entertaining than transparency at times...

See if you can catch the movie "Goodbye Lenin". That's me right there (I'm not Lenin, Conrad :rofl

I think integrity and transparency are different. I have plenty of integrity but transparency, meh...


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think we train people how to treat us, and this is a good example of that. If, when you're first together, your spouse is transparent; and you respond to that transparency by being judgmental or critical then what you're doing is encouraging them to not be transparent. You're "training" them to keep you in the dark about their real feelings.


Isn't it a partner's responsibility to push back on this 'training'? I know I failed to do this early in my marriage.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> Isn't it a partner's responsibility to push back on this 'training'? I know I failed to do this early in my marriage.


I think you absolutely have to be yourself with your partner, and the sooner in a relationship that starts, the better.

I was talking with dd last night about how I was just transparent with her dad right away, a few days after he declared his love for me, and how I did not understand why other people did not do this.

She told me it was because I did not care if it worked out with dh or not. Ouch.

But I thought about that. I had just come out of a bad relationship, an affair with my college prof, whose wife and kids lived in another city. I was exhausted after a year of intense passion and intense lies. I just could not handle it. My soul felt betrayed by my complete lack of integrity. I did not know who I was anymore. I was certainly not anyone I liked.

So dh came into my life a few weeks after this affair ended, and I just had no energy at all for another relationship. Well, almost none. But not much, and I was not going to spend whatever mental and emotional energy I had left on something fake. I was not interested in impressing anyone in any way. 

We met living in the same house, and that was really good, because from the get go he saw me just the way I was, no make up on, so to speak. 

Dd told me most people are trying really hard to impress the other person, to make them like them. This was not my feeling with dh. I just liked him and felt increasing trust in him. But I wanted the relationship to end right away, not really get started, if he could not know the worst about me, and accept it.

I wish more women would have this attitude. Just be up front with him, and let the chips fall where they may. Move on if he can't handle it.

I told dh what dd said, about how I did not care if it worked out or not, and he told me that was good, that that is why men need to do the pursuing, and women should not. He feels women take a lot of risk in life, and that trying to persuade a man she is worthy of him is not something a woman should do. It should be a man persuading her, he said.

I am so glad I am with dh. I have not had to persuade him in the fundamental ways, like trying to get him to be committed to me (he came that way), or ever trying to keep him (I really feel like he is devoted to me and the kids). A woman's life is hard enough without having to worry about anything less than total commitment and devotion to her well-being from her husband.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> I think integrity and transparency are different. I have plenty of integrity but transparency, meh...


Because you can't be. 

Your wife has a mental disorder, right? So for you, transparency would be dangerous.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> The fear or lack of transparency in intimate relationships sometimes stem from childhood issues.
> 
> It takes emotional maturity to love and become vulnerable, being transparent can make people feel vulnerable at times.
> 
> ...


Childhood issues are a huge factor. I watched my mother verbally abuse my father for decades and she taught us kids that we were better seen not heard. We had no voice. I have had a hard time with transparency in my marriage. This site has helped me to see the need for it in a marriage. 
For transparency to really work the spouse who you are being transparent with has to be a good listener and understand that not everything is about them.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

richie33 said:


> I have had a hard time with transparency in my marriage. This site has helped me to see the need for it in a marriage.
> For transparency to really work the spouse who you are being transparent with has to be a good listener and understand that *not everything is about them.*


I think this must be key. Dh does not take my rants personally. He does not necessarily enjoy them, but he knows he has to listen. 

He tries to hear what I am really saying, tries to figure out the underlying issues when I am upset. People don't blow just to blow. Or at least I don't.

I think part of transparency is being able to be upset when we are upset, and not having to be too careful about it.

Obviously, this depends on the person you are married to, though. Some women (I am female, so coming at it from that perspective) are married to men who cannot, or are not willing, to go deep with them.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

jld said:


> I would really encourage everyone to take a leap of faith and just start being transparent. You don't know where it might lead. I think chances are high it will lead someplace very good!


Transparency is super important, but I wouldn't encourage people who have been victimized to jump into it. 

Shortly after you wrote this post, jld, you wrote that your daughter mentioned that you could afford to be transparent because you didn't care what would happen. To borrow your own words from elsewhere, you were able to "let the chips fall where they may." 

I agree that it would be terrific if more people could do that, but my experiences and observations have shown me that people cannot do that because it might reveal that they are "unworthy" of love if they discover that they aren't compatible with another person. We go to great lengths to hide incompatibility from ourselves and to "work" on relationships because deep inside, there is often a belief that says, "I'm not good enough." 

For people who do have that secret fear, suddenly becoming transparent can be a huge risk that brings a potential for bad long-term consequences.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> I agree that it would be terrific if more people could do that, but my experiences and observations have shown me that people cannot do that because it might reveal that they are "unworthy" of love if they discover that they aren't compatible with another person. We go to great lengths to hide incompatibility from ourselves and to "work" on relationships because deep inside, there is often a belief that says, "I'm not good enough."
> 
> For people who do have that secret fear, suddenly becoming transparent can be a huge risk that brings a potential for bad long-term consequences.


You're saying people are fragile, and might be very hurt if they are rejected by the other person?

If people are not ready, they are not ready. Maybe I am planting a seed.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

jld said:


> You're saying people are fragile, and might be very hurt if they are rejected by the other person?
> 
> If people are not ready, they are not ready. Maybe I am planting a seed.


That's half of what I'm saying. 

The other half is that there are dangerous, cruel people in this world. People who will use what they learn about you to harm you. Sometimes it's unintentional. Sometimes it's manipulative. Sometimes it's deadly. 

People who aren't transparent usually have very good reason not to be. Even though it would be nice if we all could drop those defenses, they "defend" us against being harmed.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> That's half of what I'm saying.
> 
> The other half is that there are dangerous, cruel people in this world. People who will use what they learn about you to harm you. Sometimes it's unintentional. Sometimes it's manipulative. Sometimes it's deadly.
> 
> People who aren't transparent usually have very good reason not to be. Even though it would be nice if we all could drop those defenses, they "defend" us against being harmed.


Are you saying before marriage, or during marriage?


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

jld said:


> Are you saying before marriage, or during marriage?


I am mostly like you said... transparent and let the chips fall where they may. This worked very well for me before marriage as it ruled out the men who had different goals or who would be incompatible. 

I learned that transparency on the job has a different effect.

I learned that transparency with my husband when it can hurt his feelings can be a bad thing.

I replied to your comment that people should "just start" being transparent. I didn't say anything about before, during or after marriage. I didn't say anything about marriage. I simply said that being transparent can be risky and that these risks should be considered.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> I am mostly like you said... transparent and let the chips fall where they may. This worked very well for me before marriage as it ruled out the men who had different goals or who would be incompatible.
> 
> I learned that transparency on the job has a different effect.
> 
> ...


Transparency outside of marriage can be risky, for sure. We really need to use judgment.

The focus in this thread, though, at least mine, is on transparency in marriage.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Along the lines of what Lyris said, there is a line between transparency and having no filter. I am a believer in transparency, but filtered transparency. I consider what I say before I say it. That does not mean I feel as if I am walking on egg shells, but I try to make damn sure my message gets across in the way I want it to. 

I suppose another question is what exactly does it mean to be completely transparent? Does it mean I need to verbalize in the raw way I might think it every time I see another woman that is attractive? COMPLETE transparency would be me doing a double and triple take and turning to my STBW and saying "Damn, that chick is HOT, and so is that one, and OMG, she is too..."


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

That is an interesting point, Sam. Dh told me that he is very careful with the words he uses with me. He says his words have more weight than mine, and so he chooses them carefully.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

KathyBatesel said:


> That's half of what I'm saying.
> 
> The other half is that there are dangerous, cruel people in this world. People who will use what they learn about you to harm you. Sometimes it's unintentional. Sometimes it's manipulative. Sometimes it's deadly.
> 
> People who aren't transparent usually have very good reason not to be. Even though it would be nice if we all could drop those defenses, they "defend" us against being harmed.


Have to agree with this.. In Brene Brown's book...

The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are: ....this is well explained.. we all need to take time...be cautious... people can be like vultures...not everyone is worthy of our trust.. 

I felt so comfortable with my H when we met, don't know how to explain it...he was very open with me too ... it just flowed.. we had absolutely no GAME at all.... but that's the type of people we are....

I have found in my own life.. being transparent with authentic Nice people never seems to bite me....I am pretty selective ... but boy if you aren't careful with someone who is mentally messed up or just the type who can turn & stab you (a little history & how they talk about others can give a clue there).... NO NO NO.. when it comes to people like that.. better to just lay low... keep your mouth shut , put a lock on it if you have to. 

Talked about this on my Vulnerability thread... 



> *SimplyAmorous said*: I'll be the 1st to say...we need to very very very careful who we allow into our lives & deepest places of our ...many do not deserve our hearts.... . The book speaks of this too...how we need to honor our struggle by only sharing with those who have *EARNED the right to hear us* ...this only comes with TIME.... building a foundation of trust...with mutual sharing...feeling anothers empathy as we slowly open up.....we won't feel like they are trying to FIX us, or just jumping to make us feel better, but genuinely listening...we may feel totally exposed ...yet completely loved & accepted at the same time.. this is what true compassion is.
> 
> If we let our guard down too quickly, not knowing the character of another...sharing our most precious assets, that are deeply important to us and/or insecurities...(and we all have some)...it is deeply wounding if they take them, only to turn around and belittle us, trample us using what we've shared in Trust...against us... this would make anyone with an ounce of sensitivity (and goodness) to shield themselves, to back away ...to protect ourselves.....
> 
> ...


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> COMPLETE transparency would be me doing a double and triple take and turning to my STBW and saying "Damn, that chick is HOT, and so is that one, and OMG, she is too..."



By this standard I'm as transparent as my Nikon neutral density filter set... 

Yesterday I got an eyeful or two filling up the X3 at Costco. My wife was annoyed that the source of the eyeful also drove an X3


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Mainly because we have been raised on a diet that

1. values privacy and makes the breach or privacy a worse "crime" than anything that privacy could be covering up

2. trust is everything in a relationship and if you cannot "trust" others then you are somehow dysfunctional........


----------



## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

jld said:


> How about this:
> 
> This is bad: "Honey, here is a problem. Let's work on this together." No sobbing into hands, no automatic assumption of sudden death.


Transparency, in the context of this thread, implies that you're revealing a fault in yourself. In my experience, and in talking to many, many other men and women, women respond the best when the man reveals a problem but has a concrete plan in place to deal with it. 

My previous example was a little facetious and very general. Here's a more specific one contrasting your approach with mine:

Your approach: "Honey, I've been looking at porn. We need to work on this issue together."

My approach: "Honey, I've been looking at porn. I know it is because I have been very stressed at work and I reverted to what I did to escape stress when I was single. In the future I will avoid the computer when I'm stressed and spend time with you instead. It won't happen again."


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think we train people how to treat us, and this is a good example of that. If, when you're first together, your spouse is transparent; and you respond to that transparency by being judgmental or critical then what you're doing is encouraging them to not be transparent. You're "training" them to keep you in the dark about their real feelings.


This is SO true... if someone is very easily offended..you might as well hang it up... they will create so much drama with the harder truths....it's not like we want a dose of this when we want to be honest about something we're struggling with...











> *samyeagar said:* *there is a line between transparency and having no filter. I am a believer in transparency, but filtered transparency. I consider what I say before I say it. That does not mean I feel as if I am walking on egg shells, but I try to make damn sure my message gets across in the way I want it to. *


 How very important it is... I have gotten better with this one over the years.. I have found writing out my feelings, gives me a better handle on them/ & my motivations ..along with how to seek peace in a loving manner......before I go to that person...whether it be my H or a friend ...so we can clear the air.. We should all aim to not harm, be considerate of how hearing our words will sound...

Yet still holding firm with the plan to bring us closer in understanding... hearing each other...so we can find peace.. if something is troubling one of us...it affects the other....ultimately we want to help them land in a bed of feathers if we can help it...in this they will be more open to sharing too...and not clamming up ..

Our attitudes are paramount here..and it's always a great sign if some laughter goes forth after having a







to







..



> *samyeagar said:*.*.I suppose another question is what exactly does it mean to be completely transparent? Does it mean I need to verbalize in the raw way I might think it every time I see another woman that is attractive?* COMPLETE transparency would be me doing a double and triple take and turning to my STBW and saying "Damn, that chick is HOT, and so is that one, and OMG, she is too..."


you know the answer to this...(Oh how it has been hashed & rehashed on TAM!).... but on the other end of the spectrum... to deny that we think others are attractive -to save face...is outright lying...it never has to be spoken, but if is asked... I don't feel the asker has any right to be upset with the truth. 

..If we have healthy Transparency boundaries...are feeling the love for our significant other...they will ALWAYS feel #1... that's just how I look at it.. or we have pushed in a disrespectful manner (too unfiltered).. being transparent is to have this conversation too...and respect each others feelings.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This is SO true... if someone is very easily offended..you might as well hang it up... they will create so much drama with the harder truths....it's not like we want a dose of this when we want to be honest about something we're struggling with...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But there is respectful transparency, and disrespectful unfilteredness...


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *samyeagar said*:* But there is respectful transparency, and disrespectful unfilteredness..*.


 You are very good at getting to the heart of it in just a small sentence...I was too long winded about it -I believe I meant the same thing ... does it not sound so?


----------



## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Transparency is generally an admirable goal, but I don't know about all transparency all the time.

Sometimes a little translucency might be a better choice.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I like the way Shirley Glass describes it. She talks about windows and walls. Spouses need to have windows between them, not walls. A window doesn't necessarily mean that you tell your spouse EVERYthing though. But you do make sure to talk to them about important things.

I don't want to hear every time my husband finds some chick hot, and I am sure he doesn't want to hear every time I get irritated with him for some little thing that I know I will just get over.

But, like everything else, there is no 'one size fits all' solution that's going to make every marriage perfect. What works for one couple isn't going to work for every couple.


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

jld said:


> So often we read of the value of transparency, especially in marriage. I am a definite believer in this. And yet I get the feeling that many people resist transparency.
> 
> If you are not transparent with your spouse, why not?


Because she shut down the channels of honest communication (gender neutral)

Two rules

Don't ask any questions you don't REALLY want an answer to. So think twice before you ask about his fantasies.

If you raise the price of honesty too high, all you will get are lies (See Stalinist Russia for an extreme example)


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MSP said:


> Transparency, in the context of this thread, implies that you're revealing a fault in yourself. In my experience, and in talking to many, many other men and women, women respond the best when the man reveals a problem but has a concrete plan in place to deal with it.
> 
> My previous example was a little facetious and very general. Here's a more specific one contrasting your approach with mine:
> 
> ...


I was not thinking of a personal problem like porn. I was thinking of something like financial problems which affect both partners. Thanks for clarifying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jaharthur said:


> Transparency is generally an admirable goal, but I don't know about all transparency all the time.
> 
> Sometimes a little translucency might be a better choice.


Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

I am transparent with my wife for the past several years except for once. I was arranging a surprise party for her 50th birthday. She caught me doing things a couple of times where I needed to lie to explain. 

This instance of non-transparency was totally worth it. I arrived with my wife at a restaurant at the expected time but our party was delayed in seating so they were being sat right when we walked in. I instantly saw several people as they were going to the table so I just followed. My wife was so completely unaware that she didn't notice them and was mortified that I followed these "strangers" and sat at their table. A second later she recognized people she hadn't seen for years. She was floored.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

The problem with discussing thing like "transparency" on a forum like this is that everyone brings their own definition, assumptions, and experiences to the discussion. 

I read through this thread--even commented on it--but I STILL don't really know what everyone means when they reference "transparency." It's one of those buzz words that doesn't mean much of anything without context. 

I go back and forth between thinking, "Wow, my husband and I have MORE transparency than ANYONE on TAM," and "WOW, we have SO MUCH work to do on becoming more transparent!"

Does everything that is in my brain get laid out to my husband for discussion? No, it does not. I have a very deep and reflective relationship with my self and I think my husband would rather stab himself with a fork than be subject that that sort of "transparency." 

Does everything that I do or become aware of that affects my marriage get laid out to my husband? Yes it does--from finances to future dreams to things that he does that bother me to things that I don't like about myself that affect my behavior to him. 

If he asks me a question with a sincere desire or need to know, will I answer him truthfully? Yes, I will. 

Do I keep a journal that I ask him not to read? Yes, I do.

So, do we have transparency? Maybe by some standards, yes, maybe by others, no. Are we both happy with the level of transparency in our relationship--sometimes yes, sometimes no. 

But to say that is somehow indicative of a defect in our marriage is silly. It's like anything else--if it's really a problem, we work on it. For some people, that work is harder and more frustrating than others. Does that mean they have a weaker marriage? No. 

There is no secret bar that we all need to strive to reach here. I find it sort of weird and troubling when folks try to set "transparency standards" by which to judge other marriages. 

I remember talking to my therapist about a year ago when my husband was feeling uncomfortable with some things I was writing here on TAM. I was working through things that I was discovering about myself and about him, and he thought it was too private, and he didn't agree with some of the conclusions I'd reached. He wanted me to stop; he didn't like knowing that I thought these things, but he wanted to keep reading my posts because some of them he found useful. 

Anyway, my therapist shrugged and said, "This is what happens in every deeply intimate relationship. You go deeper and deeper and deeper and eventually you bump up against a wall." 

You cannot _become_ the other person, that is neither possible or desirable. We all keep a part of ourselves for ourselves. 

I believe that my relationship with myself is the most important relationship I'll ever have. It that selfish? Perhaps, in a way. But I think knowing oneself, loving oneself, and being able to say without shame, "this part of me is mine, and I don't have to give it to anyone," is the best and purest way to be able to share oneself with another--with intention, awareness, and love. And allowing someone else to do the same is, in return, one of the greatest gifts you can give.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Lyris said:


> He's funny
> He looks great
> He smells amazing
> He touches me all the time
> ...


This is from the thread about what makes your husband easy to love. 3 or 4 of these items, to me, don't work well with "total transparency (tm)". Things like being complicated, intense, interesting, intimidating (just a little) seem to require a little mystery.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

That is very perceptive of you WOM.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

jld said:


> Because you can't be.
> 
> Your wife has a mental disorder, right? So for you, transparency would be dangerous.


I'm disappointed to see this sort of remark from you. But let's examine it. Yes, it could be dangerous to be transparent with someone with a disorder in some cases. But it's also dangerous to be transparent with people _without_ disorders.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> I'm disappointed to see this sort of remark from you. But let's examine it. Yes, it could be dangerous to be transparent with someone with a disorder in some cases. But it's also dangerous to be transparent with people _without_ disorders.


Sorry, soul. Yes, you corrected my statement well.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> I'm disappointed to see this sort of remark from you. But let's examine it. Yes, it could be dangerous to be transparent with someone with a disorder in some cases. But it's also dangerous to be transparent with people _without_ disorders.



As with everything else there is a utility value placed on transparency. There is a cost and a benefit which ultimately define its intrinsic value.

I don't think it's dangerous in the physical or mental sense, it's just not beneficial. 

Marriages or relationships involve two separate people, not conjoined twins.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> As with everything else there is a utility value placed on transparency. There is a cost and a benefit which ultimately define its intrinsic value.
> 
> I don't think it's dangerous in the physical or mental sense, it's just not beneficial.
> 
> Marriages or relationships involve two separate people, not conjoined twins.


Didn't someone on TAM say recently that his ex-wife threatened to kill him? Wouldn't it be dangerous to be transparent with that person?

And lol on your last statement.


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> The problem with discussing thing like "transparency" on a forum like this is that everyone brings their own definition, assumptions, and experiences to the discussion.
> 
> I read through this thread--even commented on it--but I STILL don't really know what everyone means when they reference "transparency." It's one of those buzz words that doesn't mean much of anything without context.
> 
> ...


A truly profound & aware post, thank you. We desire to know another and to be known in return. That is the context for trust, intimacy and vulnerability. There is a wall, but the wall is there to protect us from ourselves. We are outside this wall just as our partner is. The wall moves as we withdraw our projections from our partner and they know us a little more. At some point the wall has moved far enough for our partner, yet we may choose to keep pushing. As you suggest, we push to know ourselves, even if we have to withhold this from our partner because they've shown us they cannot absorb what's beyond the wall.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> Didn't someone on TAM say recently that his ex-wife threatened to kill him? Wouldn't it be dangerous to be transparent with that person?


It would, but transparency would be the least of my concern in such a case. 

If everything else is 100% in a marriage, and the people are generally nice folk and not ax murderers or something, then transparency has its place. But I don't see it happening often even in very healthy marriages. 

I'm too selfish, I know...


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> It would, but transparency would be the least of my concern in such a case.
> 
> If everything else is 100% in a marriage, and the people are generally nice folk and not ax murderers or something, then transparency has its place. *But I don't see it happening often even in very healthy marriages. *
> 
> I'm too selfish, I know...


Wow, that's interesting. I couldn't survive without it.

Too selfish? Maybe just very private?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Sometimes you can't be transparent in general because people will use that against you and to harm you. I know a spouse is different, some find it very hard to switch back and forth.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

_People hold the barrier in place to protect themselves from being hurt, but the only way we will really love someone is to take the risk of being hurt and drop our barriers._ -- Lorna Byrne, Irish mystic

I read this, and thought it was appropriate for this thread.


----------



## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is from the thread about what makes your husband easy to love. 3 or 4 of these items, to me, don't work well with "total transparency (tm)". Things like being complicated, intense, interesting, intimidating (just a little) seem to require a little mystery.


Thinking about this some more has made me realise that if my husband was easier to read, more transparent, more of an open book, I would be less interested in him. I wouldn't still feel so in love with him.

I think I need more challenge that total transparency would give me. I like to feel as though I can understand him and that it's a hard thing to do. That I'm the only one who can, and who does. 

Because when someone like that *does* let you in, *does* trust you with their inner lives it feels like an enormous privilege and honour. Hard-won and valuable. 

Maybe that's partly what all the man up stuff is trying to get men to do. Be more of a challenge. Don't let her be too sure of you. My husband is like that naturally though as he's been that way since we got together at 18.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

john117 said:


> *Besides, manipulation is more entertaining than transparency at times...*


 I think a lot of people would substitute *MYSTERY* for *Manipulation* in this sentence.. or even a little 'game" feeling that transparency is too BORING.. like in dating.. the mystery holds the allure.... 

I've never been one of these people however...so what happens if a fundamentally "transparent & enjoys it" type person meets up with Mr or Mrs Privacy.. if this gap is too wide & they can not reconcile it....there will be TROUBLE AHEAD..... I feel too much of a difference is* a true compatibility issue*.

I am more inclined to "get off" and ENJOY -with laughter -and banter of HIGH honesty...we laugh at our selves this way...I am not even sure how to explain it-but it flows very well.. .I guess this depends on one's personality...it's a chemistry thing... 



Lyris said:


> *Thinking about this some more has made me realise that if my husband was easier to read, more transparent, more of an open book, I would be less interested in him. I wouldn't still feel so in love with him.
> 
> I think I need more challenge that total transparency would give me. I like to feel as though I can understand him and that it's a hard thing to do. That I'm the only one who can, and who does.
> *


 Many women feel as you do.... I love a challenge too (oh yes!)...but I like a Communication challenge/ the DEEP stuff....where others prefer savoring some Male Mystery ...it keeps women on their toes..... it's just a different dynamic tailored to what rocks our world I guess.....sounds your H gives you want you need ..to hold your interest and your attraction to him....that's what is important...you are well matched..



> *Because when someone like that does let you in, does trust you with their inner lives it feels like an enormous privilege and honour. Hard-won and valuable.*


 I don't know that this always relates though... just because one is very transparent in Marriage doesn't mean that they are with everyone else... it *IS* a privilege and honor ... I feel this way too... as my H was introverted, he's not an Open book to most people at all...Most have no idea what lurks under his surface...if they are not close to him, they will never know...

So as we grew to know each other.. I was the one he let in...and he went all out...if I felt he held back..(to keep my affections stirred) .... I would not like this at all....I would feel I was grasping for something he couldn't give me... by not going there ....

And he doesn't feel he is betraying his manhood for it either...he is comfortable in his own skin...just being his full self before me.. and I love him for that... 

Compatibility in this.. it does seem very important... that even attraction can be at stake!


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's that and more. 

I enjoy projecting different sides of myself to different people, even family. That's just how I am. 

There's the parent, the scientist, the laid back gamer guy, the ethnic guy, the creative and many others. 

Except you rarely see all of us together. Works pretty well.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Only time I am not transparent and hide things are around birthday, Christmas, and valentines day. Otherwise open book.


DING DING DING...You win the internetz for these 5 minutes.

I'm with you Wolf, the only difficulty is when I have a REALLY GOOD SURPRISE for her. I struggle keeping it from her.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Hmmm interesting, I'll speak from a man who has a wife who has ZERO tact and her words don't always reflect her intentions.



Lyris said:


> Because words can hurt and they can't be taken back.
> 
> *Delivery of words and intent of conversation are 100X greater than the actual words used. If you call someone a name, but you're laughing, smiling and reaching out to them with empathy (aside from the word) it's 180 degrees opposite if the same sentence is said with anger, venom, closed arms and storming off. My wife has called me some choice words and I laugh, there have been other times my wife has said something much milder, but it was her delivery which got me. But regardless, I know we'll meet up after. We talk about it after and the issue is forgiven 100%. She knows she can say anything to me, but she also knows if she does so in a disrespectful or negative fashion, she'll hear about it, and finally she knows our marriage will be just fine as long as it's not a constantly repeating issue.*
> 
> ...


Let's say a guy named Fred is attracted to a woman named Martha. He asks her out to a movie; she accepts; they have a pretty good time. A few nights later he asks her out to dinner, and again they enjoy themselves. They continue to see each other regularly, and after a while neither one of them is seeing anybody else.

And then, one evening when they're driving home, a thought occurs to Martha, and, without really thinking, she says it aloud: "Do you realize that, as of tonight, we've been seeing each other for exactly six months?"

And then, there is silence in the car.

To Martha, it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself: I wonder if it bothers him that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our relationship; maybe he thinks I'm trying to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want, or isn't sure of.

And Fred is thinking: Gosh. Six months.

And Martha is thinking: But, hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of relationship either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so I'd have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily towards, I mean, where are we going? Are we just going to keep seeing each other at this level of intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even know this person?

And Fred is thinking: ...so that means it was...let's see...February when we started going out, which was right after I had the car at the dealer's, which means...lemme check the odometer...Whoa! I am way overdue for an oil change here.

And Martha is thinking: He's upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong. Maybe he wants more from our relationship, more intimacy, more commitment; maybe he has sensed - even before I sensed it - that I was feeling some reservations. Yes, I bet that's it. That's why he's so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He's afraid of being rejected.

And Fred is thinking: And I'm gonna have them look at the transmission again. I don't care what those morons say, it's still not shifting right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold weather this time. What cold weather? It's 87 degrees out, and this thing is shifting like a garbage truck, and I paid those incompetent thieves $600.

And Martha is thinking: He's angry. And I don't blame him. I'd be angry, too. I feel so guilty, putting him through this, but I can't help the way I feel. I'm just not sure.

And Fred is thinking: They'll probably say it's only a 90-day warranty...scumballs.

And Martha is thinking: Maybe I'm just too idealistic, waiting for a knight to come riding up on his white horse, when I'm sitting right next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being with, a person I truly do care about, a person who seems to truly care about me. A person who is in pain because of my self-centered, schoolgirl romantic fantasy.

And Fred is thinking: Warranty? They want a warranty? I'll give them a warranty. I'll take their warranty and stick it right up their...

"Fred," Martha says aloud.

"What?" says Fred, startled.

"Please don't torture yourself like this," she says, her eyes beginning to brim with tears. "Maybe I should never have...oh dear, I feel so..."(She breaks down, sobbing.)

"What?" says Fred.

"I'm such a fool," Martha sobs. "I mean, I know there's no knight. I really know that. It's silly. There's no knight, and there's no horse."

"There's no horse?" says Fred.

"You think I'm a fool, don't you?" Martha says.

"No!" says Fred, glad to finally know the correct answer.

"It's just that...it's that I...I need some time," Martha says.

(There is a 15-second pause while Fred, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally he comes up with one that he thinks might work.)

"Yes," he says. (Martha, deeply moved, touches his hand.)

"Oh, Fred, do you really feel that way?" she says.

"What way?" says Fred.

"That way about time," says Martha.

"Oh," says Fred. "Yes." (Martha turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last she speaks.)

"Thank you, Fred," she says.

"Thank you," says Fred.

Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted, tortured soul, and weeps until dawn, whereas when Fred gets back to his place, he opens a bag of Doritos, turns on the TV, and immediately becomes deeply involved in a rerun of a college basketball game between two South Dakota junior colleges that he has never heard of. A tiny voice in the far recesses of his mind tells him that something major was going on back there in the car, but he is pretty sure there is no way he would ever understand what, and so he figures it's better if he doesn't think about it.

The next day Martha will call her closest friend, or perhaps two of them, and they will talk about this situation for six straight hours. In painstaking detail, they will analyze everything she said and everything he said, going over it time and time again, exploring every word, expression, and gesture for nuances of meaning, considering every possible ramification.

They will continue to discuss this subject, off and on, for weeks, maybe months, never reaching any definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it either.

Meanwhile, Fred, while playing racquetball one day with a mutual friend of his and Martha's, will pause just before serving, frown, and say: "Norm, did Martha ever own a horse?"

And that's the difference between men and women.

*AND THAT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IS WHY YOU WANT TRANSPARENCY AND FULLY OPEN COMMUNICATION*


----------

