# Wife and her male colleague



## Rebel81

Hi Guys and gals.

I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed.

One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this.

She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!

My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair. 

Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning.

My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call. 

My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.

I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


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## Andy1001

She’s cheating on you and she’s done it before. How much more proof do you need?


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## Rebel81

Andy1001 said:


> She’s cheating on you and she’s done it before. How much more proof do you need?


That's the point. That is not proof. She could make any old excuse up regarding those calls. 

She told me the reason she didn't tell me about driving with him to the party beforehand was that I would get paranoid. No ****!!


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## Marc878

You only need proof enough for you.


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## RebuildingMe

Check phone records to see how many times they call and text each other. Start digging. You’ll find your answers.


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## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague,
> *It was pre planned. She left early to spend more time with him. *
> 
> 
> the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!
> *She learned to hide it. *
> 
> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!
> 
> 
> My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair.
> *She didn’t want you there *
> 
> Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning.
> *She had plans*
> 
> My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call.
> 
> My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.
> 
> I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


Go online and check your phone bill. I’d bet you’ll see more texts/calls. Go back over the past year. You can usually download and sort the data.
I doubt this is a one time thing.


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## Evinrude58

That gut you mention: 99.999999% accurate.
My perspective: your wife is absolutely a cheater. You should have made a surprise visit to the hotel and caught them red handed.


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## Marc878

It might be a wise move to put a voice activated recorder in her car Velcro’d under the seat. Read up on how to use one. Since you have to be convinced on what her actions already tell you.
Ask yourself this. If you corroborate what it looks like what will your actions be?
Are you going to divorce her? If not then why bother. Talking about it won’t get you a thing.
Keep your eyes and ears open and mouth shut. All you’re doing is tipping her off.


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## Rebel81

I don't have access to her phone records, only her actual phone. 

The last call between them, according to her phone, was 3 weeks ago at that work do. 

I've been paranoid of late if I'm honest. She went to a bachelorette party over a month ago. It was overnight at a hotel. When she came home, she hugged me and asked if we could go to bed early that night. The last time she done something like that was 5 years ago after she went to Xmas do with this work colleague.


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## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> I don't have access to her phone records, only her actual phone.
> 
> The last call between them, according to her phone, was 3 weeks ago at that work do.
> 
> I've been paranoid of late if I'm honest. She went to a bachelorette party over a month ago. It was overnight at a hotel. When she came home, she hugged me and asked if we could go to bed early that night. The last time she done something like that was 5 years ago after she went to Xmas do with this work colleague.


She is horny when she comes home and wants you to get her AP's sloppy seconds. She must get off on it.


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## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> She is horny when she comes home and wants you to get her AP's sloppy seconds. She must get off on it.


Maybe not with the AP at the bachelorette party. It was a 2 hour drive away. But you know what, who knows at this stage!


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## Evinrude58

Either enjoying cuckolding you, or feeling guilty for what she’s done.

what I can’t wrap my head around is you tolerating overnight stays at bachelorette parties, taking men home at all hours, and after screwing them, etc.

YOUR boundaries are non existent. We’ve seen passive behavior from men a lot lately.
Why are you so scared to lose a cheater? What is true of her that you feel can’t be replaced? You say you love her. Do you feel she’s the only woman you could ever love? I assure you you’re wrong if so.


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## Lostinthought61

i would inform her collegues's wife that you think that they are cheating...then i would also tell her that you want to see all her phone records to prove otherwise.

PS if you intend to stay in this marriage then i would shut off any trips wiithout you comepletely


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## Rebel81

I'd say the latter. 

Over nights at bachelorette parties? That is totally the norm where I am from. 

We have kids and a mortgage. I need solid proof that she is cheating. But if someone else wrote what I wrote, I would say its cheating all day long. 

I do love her, but I'm not in love with her.


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## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> I'd say the latter.
> 
> Over nights at bachelorette parties? That is totally the norm where I am from.
> 
> We have kids and a mortgage. I need solid proof that she is cheating. But if someone else wrote what I wrote, I would say its cheating all day long.
> 
> I do love her, but I'm not in love with her.


Your actions are limited. VAR is cheap. Private detectives are expensive.
The big question is what are you prepared to do if you find out the obvious?
Being a marriage warden is worthless. Staying and being a martyr is a thankless task.
What are you prepared to do?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

I am going to tell you what have 
Told several others who come on this site like yourself. You know somethings wrong or you would not be on here asking for advice trust your gut she’s cheating on you!


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## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> I don't have access to her phone records, only her actual phone.
> 
> The last call between them, according to her phone, was 3 weeks ago at that work do.
> 
> I've been paranoid of late if I'm honest. She went to a bachelorette party over a month ago. It was overnight at a hotel. When she came home, she hugged me and asked if we could go to bed early that night. The last time she done something like that was 5 years ago after she went to Xmas do with this work colleague.


Does she have a separate plan? Her phone will only have what she doesn’t delete.


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## Rebel81

Marc878 said:


> Does she have a separate plan? Her phone will only have what she doesn’t delete.


We have always had separate plans. 

Back 5 years ago when she went to the Xmas party with him, I discovered after checking her phone that there was only one text message on her phone from him. She admitted she deleted them as he goes on and on and his messages could be misinterpreted. Apparently he wears his heart on his sleeve. I'm sure he does!!


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## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> We have always had separate plans.
> 
> Back 5 years ago when she went to the Xmas party with him, I discovered after checking her phone that there was only one text message on her phone from him. She admitted she deleted them as he goes on and on and his messages could be misinterpreted. Apparently he wears his heart on his sleeve. I'm sure he does!!


If she is cheating they lie a lot. All you’ve done is tip her off every time. Stop. It’s getting you nowhere.
Again what are you prepared to do? So far you’ve done nothing except tip her off.


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## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> We have always had separate plans.
> 
> Back 5 years ago when she went to the Xmas party with him, I discovered after checking her phone that there was only one text message on her phone from him. She admitted she deleted them as he goes on and on and his messages could be misinterpreted. Apparently he wears his heart on his sleeve. I'm sure he does!!


Why do you believe such incredibly poorly devised lies?


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## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Why do you believe such incredibly poorly devised lies?


I don't believe it at all.


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## Rebel81

Marc878 said:


> If she is cheating they lie a lot. All you’ve done is tip her off every time. Stop. It’s getting you nowhere.
> Again what are you prepared to do? So far you’ve done nothing except tip her off.


She doesn't know I've checked her phone recently, and I'll keep that way.


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## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> She doesn't know I've checked her phone recently, and I'll keep that way.


That’s a good first step. All you accomplish by confronting early is driving it further underground. If it is cheating they’ll only admit to what you know.
I doubt her phone is going to get you much.
Without a plan you’ll continue to flounder. Can you figure out how to logon to her phone account? However, all that would tell you is activity. How much and who she texts/calls. Not the proof you are looking for it sounds like.
A VAR is cheap and many have had decent results. You could also put a location tracker on her car.
A workplace affair is the toughest to crack. Private investigators maybe your best bet but very expensive 
Most think if they can prove an affair they’ll stop. That’s not necessarily so. You can’t make her do a thing.
What are you prepared to do? An important question.


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## Marc878

One reason you don’t seem to know much is all you’ve done is talk. Talk gets you *NOTHING. *
Only actions will accomplish what you seek. Without a plan you won’t achieve much.


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## Captain Obvious

Your wife talking about how great her coworker was way back when, red flag #1. Her lying about details of the trip, especially driving there with this guy, red flag 2. Her gaslighting you and throwing it back in your face how you could insinuate such thoughts even after she straight up lied to you, red flag 3. This is starting to look like a Soviet victory day parade. Last thing, this guy didn’t cause problems in your marriage, that was all your wife.


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## LeGenDary_Man

Rebel81 said:


> One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this.


RED FLAG # 1

They wanted to make sure that you will not suspect them and try to stop them. Best way to do this is to treat you like a friend.



Rebel81 said:


> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day.


RED FLAG # 2

Your wife hooked-up with him on this day. This was her best opportunity to do this.



Rebel81 said:


> For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!


RED FLAG # 3

She gaslighted you by pulling the _"You do not trust me?"_ card on you, and you fell for her LIE.

LIE is the key word. She LIED to you actually.

You = Fool (Major blunder to let this one slide)



Rebel81 said:


> My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair.
> 
> Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning.


RED FLAG # 4

Your wife hooked-up with him again.

She made an excuse to stop you from picking her up.



Rebel81 said:


> My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call.
> 
> My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.


You know she is in touch with him.

You are allowing her to attend these parties which seem to last very long for some reason.

You are wasting your time by talking to your wife about this. She will not tell you anything.

You are one of those cool husband(s) who are afraid to establish marital boundaries because everybody attends PARTIES in your location. Right?

Attending Parties with Hotel Room(s) booked for an entire night on the side = Bad idea for a married woman (Perfect hook-up setups)

Marital boundaries are the LEAST of your concern NOW. Too late.

You have fairly good secondary evidence on hand:

1. Your wife is in touch with a co-worker who bugs you.

2. Your wife LIE to you about her interactions with him (and activities with him).

3. Your wife deletes his texts to make sure that you will not find out much.

You can have a good look at her phone to collect any form of evidence by taking screenshots and sending them to your device. You can PREPARE NOTES based on them and pointers received in this thread to construct a picture of the relevant sequence of events.

Office Affairs are not easy to uncover in great depth. You will need a PI on urgent basis to follow your wife when she books a hotel room next time, and in general. This is costly undertaking and you will have to be patient but the wait will be "tormenting."

There might be other people who know something. Another co-worker of your wife or a friend but these people might alert her as well.

The best course of action for you is to consult a good lawyer and prepare to divorce your wife. She [might] tell you more when you will confront her with "your NOTES" *and* "divorce papers in your hands." She [might] break down and come clean at this stage.

Trust your gut on this.


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## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> Hi Guys and gals.
> 
> I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed.
> 
> One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this.
> 
> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!
> 
> My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair.
> 
> Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning.
> 
> My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call.
> 
> My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.
> 
> I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


This one is really hard. It's difficult to see what's going on with all the red flags she's waiving in your face.


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## ABHale

Corner the guy somewhere and ask him for what has been going on between him and your wife. Tell him that you have her confession and you want to see if what he says matches her story. Tell him he has one shot or your going to his wife next. 

Don’t let your wife know you are doing this.


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## Evinrude58

Has she called you controlling yet?

She’s given you the classic “you don’t trust me” gag. That’s next if you try to establish any kind of boundary which she will just break.


Rebel81 said:


> He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this.
> why wasn’t it concerning??? You know how many guys want to have a drink with me and tell me how great my wife is when I was married? None, because they’d be collecting their teeth off the ground. I married her. Clearly
> 
> 
> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink.
> so it’s normal for you to have a wife that stays out all night drinking with male colleagues? Might want to rethink that.
> No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/*club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink,* as the bar was closed. so it’s not so fit your wife to go back to a male colleague’s hotel room after the bar closes. Another boundary you might rethink.
> *Apparently* ( apparent to nobody but you—sir, she’s lying and you’re being played) all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day.
> that’s because he spent the night with her!
> For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it you didn’t forget about it, neither did she. You let her rugsweep it. Never works out well. and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again,* until now!*
> 
> My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair. I wonder why you didn’t get invited???????
> 
> Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning. Go ahead and list this as the second morning she dropped him off . He was with her all night. Why didn’t you show up at her hotel room? Are you that afraid to see the truth?
> 
> My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call.
> 
> My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.
> 
> I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


Not trying to give you a hard time, but where are your friends that know you? Why have they not beaten you over the head with a 2x4 to snap you awake to what is obvious to everyone?

Your wife is such a blatant cheater, you could easily catch her red handed. Just wait quietly until she has another overnight stay at work in a hotel and pay her a visit. Be sure to bring a camera. This has been happening for years and your gut is only now screaming at you?????
How???? You’ve got a gut that is extremely slow to communicate with you.


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## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Has she called you controlling yet?
> 
> She’s given you the classic “you don’t trust me” gag. That’s next if you try to establish any kind of boundary which she will just break.
> 
> Not trying to give you a hard time, but where are your friends that know you? Why have they not beaten you over the head with a 2x4 to snap you awake to what is obvious to everyone?
> 
> Your wife is such a blatant cheater, you could easily catch her red handed. Just wait quietly until she has another overnight stay at work in a hotel and pay her a visit. Be sure to bring a camera. This has been happening for years and your gut is only now screaming at you?????
> How???? You’ve got a gut that is extremely slow to communicate with you.


Thanks for your replies. 

Why doesn't she hide her phone, like most cheaters do? 

Why didn't she delete the call log showing the calls with this guy? 

By the way, she works in front line services and works nights etc. You can take a guess at what she does. A private investigator won't find out much here, trust me on that. 

Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her. She never compliments me. I raised this with her before and she said she finds me attractive, and pays me compliments by doing things for me. Like ensuring I have a dinner, the house is clean, making me a coffee etc. 

One thing she doesn't do is leave the house during the evening to possibly meet this or any other guy. Which means she would only do it when working. 

I only found these calls a weeks ago so it's only playing in my mind since then. What tipped me off or should I say why my gut started screaming at me to check her phone, was when I came home from work the day after she returned from this work do, was that she even looked guilty of something. She was sitting there almost looking into space and for once, wasn't on her phone.


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## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> Why doesn't she hide her phone, like most cheaters do?
> *If she cleans her phone regularly there’s no use to hide it. She could be using the work phone so there’s nothing to hide.*
> 
> Why didn't she delete the call log showing the calls with this guy?
> *It could have been a slip up on her part.*
> 
> By the way, she works in front line services and works nights etc. You can take a guess at what she does. A private investigator won't find out much here, trust me on that.
> 
> Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her. She never compliments me. I raised this with her before and she said she finds me attractive, and pays me compliments by doing things for me. Like ensuring I have a dinner, the house is clean, making me a coffee etc.
> *Did the drop off in sex correspond with the coworker?*
> 
> 
> One thing she doesn't do is leave the house during the evening to possibly meet this or any other guy. Which means she would only do it when working.
> *Or before or after work. You may not notice 15-30 minutes here or there.*
> 
> I only found these calls a weeks ago so it's only playing in my mind since then. What tipped me off or should I say why my gut started screaming at me to check her phone, was when I came home from work the day after she returned from this work do, was that she even looked guilty of something. She was sitting there almost looking into space and for once, wasn't on her phone.


Sounds like your only option is a VAR and a GPS. If she uses an auto. If she’s having a call in the car or going somewhere besides work. Those are the cheapest and maybe your best options. 
You are correct. Workplace affairs are the hardest to detect.
No one here can say 100% it’s an affair. Just some red flags. Especially the trips together.


----------



## Marc878

The other thing is if it is an affair what is your end game, plan?
just you finding out isn’t going to fix this. You’d better be giving that some thought.


----------



## Marc878

If she has another work function do you have someone who could check up on it?


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> Why doesn't she hide her phone, like most cheaters do?
> 
> Why didn't she delete the call log showing the calls with this guy?


There is no hard and fast rule for how a cheater will behave.

You have noticed calls from this man and members here have given you substantial perspective.

Perhaps your wife is TIRED watching you in this phase:










She wants you to find out now.



Rebel81 said:


> By the way, she works in front line services and works nights etc. You can take a guess at what she does. A private investigator won't find out much here, trust me on that.
> 
> Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her. She never compliments me. I raised this with her before and she said she finds me attractive, and pays me compliments by doing things for me. Like ensuring I have a dinner, the house is clean, making me a coffee etc.


Low Sex Drive = Excuse

She is getting her needs met elsewhere.



Rebel81 said:


> One thing she doesn't do is leave the house during the evening to possibly meet this or any other guy. Which means she would only do it when working.


Of-course. Those hotel rooms that were rented....



Rebel81 said:


> I only found these calls a weeks ago so it's only playing in my mind since then. What tipped me off or should I say why my gut started screaming at me to check her phone, was when I came home from work the day after she returned from this work do, was that she even looked guilty of something. She was sitting there almost looking into space and for once, wasn't on her phone.


So what is the point of this discussion and statement? Her guilty look is self-explanatory.

What do you want to do about it?


----------



## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her. She never compliments me. I raised this with her before and she said she finds me attractive, and pays me compliments by doing things for me. Like ensuring I have a dinner, the house is clean, making me a coffee etc.


If she is having an affair it maybe that she doesn’t want to have sex with you. Not uncommon.


----------



## In Absentia

I mean, let's forget about the cheating... sex every 6 weeks?  I thought my marriage was bad sex-wise...


----------



## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> Why doesn't she hide her phone, like most cheaters do?
> 
> Why didn't she delete the call log showing the calls with this guy?
> 
> By the way, she works in front line services and works nights etc. You can take a guess at what she does. A private investigator won't find out much here, trust me on that.
> 
> Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her. She never compliments me. I raised this with her before and she said she finds me attractive, and pays me compliments by doing things for me. Like ensuring I have a dinner, the house is clean, making me a coffee etc.
> 
> One thing she doesn't do is leave the house during the evening to possibly meet this or any other guy. Which means she would only do it when working.
> 
> I only found these calls a weeks ago so it's only playing in my mind since then. What tipped me off or should I say why my gut started screaming at me to check her phone, was when I came home from work the day after she returned from this work do, was that she even looked guilty of something. She was sitting there almost looking into space and for once, wasn't on her phone.


Most professionals agree that a sexless marriage is one in which sex occurs less than once a month or less than ten times per year. While once a month would not technically be considered a sexless marriage by this measurement, a more important barometer is whether or not the lack of sex bothers you.


----------



## Rebel81

In Absentia said:


> I mean, let's forget about the cheating... sex every 6 weeks?  I thought my marriage was bad sex-wise...


Yes for the last 5 or 6 years. And that's with me iniatiating 95% of the time.


----------



## In Absentia

Rebel81 said:


> Yes for the last 5 or 6 years. And that's with me iniatiating 95% of the time.


And you don't mind? Let me guess... you are staying for the children...


----------



## frenchpaddy

In Absentia said:


> I mean, let's forget about the cheating... sex every 6 weeks?  I thought my marriage was bad sex-wise...


I thought it was just a think of the wife been friendly with a man and that she had sex with him on the odd time when they get away together , "never miss a slice off a sliced pan" 
But women often think men are just friends , but most men are happy to hang around until the day they can take what drops from the fat mans table 

When I SAW SEX ONLY ONCE IN 6 WEEKS there is more wrong than he thinks


----------



## Rebel81

frenchpaddy said:


> Most professionals agree that a sexless marriage is one in which sex occurs less than once a month or less than ten times per year. While once a month would not technically be considered a sexless marriage by this measurement, a more important barometer is whether or not the lack of sex bothers you.


Yes it bothers me alot, to the point that I have become relly self conscious about how I look, and whether I'm the issue. It gets me down quite a bit.

She does have a toy which comes out during sex. I also know she uses it herself alone which is normal. She said she doesn't watch porn and just gets off on the touch/feeling of a vibrator.


----------



## frenchpaddy

In Absentia said:


> And you don't mind? Let me guess... you are staying for the children...


or afraid of what his mother would say if their marriage brakes up , keeping the best side out


----------



## Rebel81

What else could be wrong?


----------



## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> Yes it bothers me alot, to the point that I have become relly self conscious about how I look, and whether I'm the issue. It gets me down quite a bit.
> 
> She does have a toy which comes out during sex. I also know she uses it herself alone which is normal. She said she doesn't watch porn and just gets off on the touch/feeling of a vibrator.


 if you want your marriage to work you need to get help and you need to talk


----------



## In Absentia

Rebel81 said:


> What else could be wrong?


Nothing. You are not in love with her, you have sex once in a blue moon, she has a vibrator that she uses instead of you and now you are suspecting she's being unfaithful. I think this is plenty...


----------



## Marc878

frenchpaddy said:


> if you want your marriage to work you need to get help and you need to talk


Sounds great but the reality is if she is having an affair she’s not going to tell him.
Now if he wanted to bring up the lack of sex as a side issue that would be ok. However, she’s already told him she has a low sex drive and it’s just fine with her. Probably a dead end.

Most spouses will grasp at any straw if it sounds easy. Thats why you see so many doing the ‘pick me dance’ or trying to nice them back upfront. Neither one works. It has the opposite effect.

While we are on the subject. Download and read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short. Many swear by it and it’s been around a long time.


----------



## Rebel81

I bought that book a few years on a recommendation from another website on relationships. Maybe it was you? 

Never read it properly.


----------



## Marc878

Another tip if it is an affair marriage counseling is a waste of time and money. Cheaters lie a lot.


----------



## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> I bought that book a few years on a recommendation from another website on relationships. Maybe it was you?
> 
> Never read it properly.


It doesn’t work unless you apply it. Women respect strong men. I’m talking about inner strength not muscles.
While we are on the subject. Taking care of yourself is important. Dress, etc. clothes make the man.
Fresh haircuts, weight, etc. 
All that’s great but if she is having an affair that trumps everything.


----------



## Marc878

I get the sense that you are looking for the easiest way to fix this. There isn’t one.
Let’s day she isn’t cheating. All the above takes time and effort. Reading a book is great but if you don’t apply it. You’ll get nowhere.
The same with self respect and image. That takes work.
Do you even have a plan?


----------



## frenchpaddy

Marc878 said:


> Sounds great but the reality is if she is having an affair she’s not going to tell him.
> Now if he wanted to bring up the lack of sex as a side issue that would be ok. However, she’s already told him she has a low sex drive and it’s just fine with her. Probably a dead end.
> 
> Most spouses will grasp at any straw if it sounds easy. Thats why you see so many doing the ‘pick me dance’ or trying to nice them back upfront. Neither one works. It has the opposite effect.
> 
> While we are on the subject. Download and read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short. Many swear by it and it’s been around a long time.


 It looks like there is nothing wrong with her sex drive , At least twice she came home after been sexed and looking for more


----------



## Marc878

frenchpaddy said:


> It looks like there is nothing wrong with her sex drive , At least twice she came home after been sexed and looking for more


That’s not uncommon if it’s what it looks like.


----------



## frenchpaddy

I think this woman is not having an affair , But judging by what OP has posted she has had the odd slip , can it be fixed yes if both 
Chances are, your verbal and emotional communication is lacking, which has led to your sexless marriage. Did something occur that eroded your ability to speak freely with each other like you used to? Is it something serious like infidelity, or are you both coping with new stresses at work or at home?

The thing is it will be very hard now for OP to keep his cool as posting here is going to get under him and a blow up is going to happen sooner than later .

just hope he thinks well of what and how he does it or it could brake them up very fast ,


----------



## frenchpaddy

Marc878 said:


> That’s not uncommon if it’s what it looks like.


Yes most people think if a woman is getting it away from home she will not be open to her husband but often it happens to be she comes home and out of guilt or pity for husband is very happy to have sex again but what the husband does not know is she is rethinking her steamy sex with Mr Big


----------



## Marc878

frenchpaddy said:


> I think this woman is not having an affair , But judging by what OP has posted she has had the odd slip , can it be fixed yes if both
> Chances are, your verbal and emotional communication is lacking, which has led to your sexless marriage. Did something occur that eroded your ability to speak freely with each other like you used to? Is it something serious like infidelity, or are you both coping with new stresses at work or at home?
> 
> The thing is it will be very hard now for OP to keep his cool as posting here is going to get under him and a blow up is going to happen sooner than later .
> 
> just hope he thinks well of what and how he does it or it could brake them up very fast ,


No one here knows 100% either way. He’s looking for advice. One important piece of that advice is to keep his mouth shut. It’s a forum. You take what you need and leave the rest.


----------



## Marc878

frenchpaddy said:


> Yes most people think if a woman is getting it away from home she will not be open to her husband but often it happens to be she comes home and out of guilt or pity for husband is very happy to have sex again but what the husband does not know is she is rethinking her steamy sex with Mr Big


In the seven years I’ve been here and on other forums I’ve seen it go both ways.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Marc878 said:


> In the seven years I’ve been here and on other forums I’ve seen it go both ways.


yes true but it is something women do that men don't do as far as I know of , some women take a lot to get going but once they start on a night they can turn from a not interested in sex to nymphomaniac in no time and then go back into not interested again for a long time 
not everyone is the same it is what makes the world happen as if we were all the same how boring would it be


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

frenchpaddy said:


> I think this woman is not having an affair , But judging by what OP has posted she has had the odd slip , can it be fixed yes if both


I am not sure how you deduced this.

Check following post:









Wife and her male colleague


Why do you believe such incredibly poorly devised lies? I don't believe it at all.




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Classic signs of infidelity are apparent in behavior of the wife [in question].

The husband [in question] is not eager to change his situation on the other hand. He is extremely CHILL or NUMB which is weird (accepted his fate?). This can also be the reason for the wife to have checked-out on him and giving him bare minimum to keep things from falling apart. This marriage is a dud in my view.

But fine.

The husband has to decide what he can do about his situation in the end. WE can guide and/or motivate him. Not more.

I wanted to jolt him and get back on the track but...

Fine.

I will not waste my time in this thread further.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> Yes it bothers me alot, to the point that I have become relly self conscious about how I look, and whether I'm the issue. It gets me down quite a bit.
> 
> She does have a toy which comes out during sex. I also know she uses it herself alone which is normal. She said she doesn't watch porn and just gets off on the touch/feeling of a vibrator.


But doesn’t want sex with you.

This isn’t low drive if she is pleasuring herself. She is thinking of lover and their time together.


----------



## Captain Obvious

This could be a coincidence, but you say your sex life with your wife has been spotty for the last 5-6 years. That Xmas party was like 5 years ago?? I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her. She never compliments me. I raised this with her before and she said she finds me attractive, and pays me compliments by doing things for me. Like ensuring I have a dinner, the house is clean, making me a coffee etc.


 When doing marriage studies, a common definition of a sexless marriage is having sex 10 or less times a year. 52 weeks in a year divided by you having sex every 6 weeks equals sex 8.66 times a year. Thus in most sex studies you are by definition in a sexless marriage. This fact alone needs to be addressed.

Remember, you took a wedding vow of monogamy, not a vow of celibacy.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> Rebel81 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have access to her phone records, only her actual phone.
> 
> The last call between them, according to her phone, was 3 weeks ago at that work do.
> 
> I've been paranoid of late if I'm honest. She went to a bachelorette party over a month ago. It was overnight at a hotel. When she came home, she hugged me and asked if we could go to bed early that night. The last time she done something like that was 5 years ago after she went to Xmas do with this work colleague.
> 
> 
> 
> . So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates.
Click to expand...




Rebel81 said:


> Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her.


Nobody has brought this up much yet so lets discuss this for awhile. 

It is not at all uncommon for WWs to come home from one of their trysts and initiate sex with their BHs. Especially if the marital sex life is infrequent and lackluster. There are a number of reasons for this -

- One is they truly are horny at the time. A female's sexuality can go dormant for long periods of time during which it will seem (even to her) that she has a very low libido or even consider herself uninterested in sex at all. But when some hunk that turns her on comes along, her libido can fire up into overdrive and her horny hormones come raging back with a fury. 

After she has be sexed up and had a good ol' time with someone else, her libido can be fired up for days .

- Another reason is that after hooking up elsewhere, she will try to cover her tracks and will be concerned that the BH may get suspicious if they haven't had sex in a long time and will start snooping, so she will have sex with him in an attempt to smooth things over at home so he doesn't get suspicious and snoop around. 

- And another reason is even more dark. If the married couple is not having sex for weeks or months or even years at a time, If she were to turn up pregnant after not having had sex with the BH for a long period of time..... well you get the point. WWs will often come home and initiate sex with the BH so that if she turns up pregnant, she can cuckold the BH and pass the child off as his. 

So suddenly initiating sex with the BH when she normal doesn't have sex with him or when she normally rarely ever initiates IS a red flag. 

Many a BH will think that the fact she is now suddenly initiating or showing an interest in sex with him is a sign that things are OK or that they are getting better. 

But in fact, it can be a sign that she has actually hooked up with someone else and this is a response to cover her tracks and possibly pass off another man's child as his.


----------



## frenchpaddy

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I am not sure how you deduced this.
> 
> Check following post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wife and her male colleague
> 
> 
> Why do you believe such incredibly poorly devised lies? I don't believe it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.talkaboutmarriage.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Classic signs of infidelity are apparent in behavior of the wife [in question].
> 
> The husband [in question] is not eager to change his situation on the other hand. He is extremely CHILL or NUMB which is weird (accepted his fate?). This can also be the reason for the wife to have checked-out on him and giving him bare minimum to keep things from falling apart. This marriage is a dud in my view.
> 
> But fine.
> 
> The husband has to decide what he can do about his situation in the end. WE can guide and/or motivate him. Not more.
> 
> I wanted to jolt him and get back on the track but...
> 
> Fine.
> 
> I will not waste my time in this thread further.


i don't think she is having an affair but is playing around with this guy the odd time


----------



## frenchpaddy

oldshirt said:


> Nobody has brought this up much yet so lets discuss this for awhile.
> 
> It is not at all uncommon for WWs to come home from one of their trysts and initiate sex with their BHs. Especially if the marital sex life is infrequent and lackluster. There are a number of reasons for this -
> 
> - One is they truly are horny at the time. A female's sexuality can go dormant for long periods of time during which it will seem (even to her) that she has a very low libido or even consider herself uninterested in sex at all. But when some hunk that turns her on comes along, her libido can fire up into overdrive and her horny hormones come raging back with a fury.
> 
> After she has be sexed up and had a good ol' time with someone else, her libido can be fired up for days .
> 
> - Another reason is that after hooking up elsewhere, she will try to cover her tracks and will be concerned that the BH may get suspicious if they haven't had sex in a long time and will start snooping, so she will have sex with him in an attempt to smooth things over at home so he doesn't get suspicious and snoop around.
> 
> - And another reason is even more dark. If the married couple is not having sex for weeks or months or even years at a time, If she were to turn up pregnant after not having had sex with the BH for a long period of time..... well you get the point. WWs will often come home and initiate sex with the BH so that if she turns up pregnant, she can cuckold the BH and pass the child off as his.
> 
> So suddenly initiating sex with the BH when she normal doesn't have sex with him or when she normally rarely ever initiates IS a red flag.
> 
> Many a BH will think that the fact she is now suddenly initiating or showing an interest in sex with him is a sign that things are OK or that they are getting better.
> 
> But in fact, it can be a sign that she has actually hooked up with someone else and this is a response to cover her tracks and possibly pass off another man's child as his.


 This is very true more so for women then men.
THEY ALL SO SAY IF YOU DON'T USE IT YOU LOOSE IT 
But when their light is fired up they like the feeling and can't get enough , 
many years ago a few of us went away together and one wife in the group that was known to be the type that was shy and living just a normal sex life with one of the guys there she had on drink but a Polish guy chatted her up and it was not long she was given him a blow job and then left with him both her and the polish guy came back then he left as we could not find much to talk about , next she had a second guy and you know what she told me on the bus home , a 3th guy came up to her and she was sorry she did not take him to see what he was like , and the whole time her BF was chatting with others I think he know but i did not want to get into it more with people i work with , 
as we say don't sh1t on your own doorstep 

i think this does need its own topic as we could now easy take this one off topic


----------



## Evinrude58

So some of the few times you has sex with yiur wife corresponded with her coming back from a night at the hotel with her AP?
Yeah, you have a problem.

what I would like to know is regardless of cheating, why would you want to stay in this marriage? It sounds awful, like you’re wasting your life with a woman that has zero romantic interest in you.

I think that the poster above that said she might have has sex with you in case she came up pregnant was likely accurate. And since she is “low drive”, maybe she’s not interested in getting her ugly on very often. Of course he didn’t call her 5 times in one day to chat about the weather.

I think you should consider divorcing her simply because it’s a crappy marriage. You could also just wait until the next hotel stay and bust her. But is it worth it?

again, what are the good parts of this roommate marriage?


----------



## oldshirt

frenchpaddy said:


> many years ago a few of us went away together and one wife in the group that was known to be the type that was shy and living just a normal sex life with one of the guys there she had on drink but a Polish guy chatted her up and it was not long she was given him a blow job and then left with him both her and the polish guy came back then he left as we could not find much to talk about , next she had a second guy and you know what she told me on the bus home , a 3th guy came up to her and she was sorry she did not take him to see what he was like ,


"What? Ten men are at the door wanting to have sex with me? I am too tired right now; tell one of them to leave."
- Mae West


----------



## Junebug86

Rebel81 said:


> Hi Guys and gals.
> 
> I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed.
> 
> One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this.
> 
> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!
> 
> My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair.
> 
> Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning.
> 
> My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call.
> 
> My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.
> 
> I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts
> [
> If your spouse cannot or does not tell you what or who they are with, then they probably shouldn’t be doing it. Why not tell the truth about who you are picking up and driving to then event, etc. ? The lies in themselves are a betrayal. Most affairs/flings start in the workplace. I think you have plenty of reason to be suspicious and your gut must be telling you something isn’t right.
> 
> 
> If
> 
> 
> Rebel81 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Guys and gals.
> 
> I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed.
> 
> One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this.
> 
> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!
> 
> My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair.
> 
> Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning.
> 
> My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call.
> 
> My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.
> 
> I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts
Click to expand...


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

frenchpaddy said:


> i don't think she is having an affair but is playing around with this guy the odd time


Why would she LIE about her activities with _this_ co-worker to her husband? Why would she delete his texts in her phone so that her husband won't see much? This is RED FLAG behavior to any self-respecting husband, and infidelity can be safely inferred in this matter.

In addition to the above, the wife would come back to her husband after spending a night with _this_ co-worker in a hotel room and would initiate sex with him (EACH TIME). This is out-of-norm for her as well. She is COLD to her husband at home otherwise. Another RED FLAG to account for.

Perhaps you are not good at recognizing questionable behavioral patterns.; I am, and I have pointed out the obvious.

Your post count shows that you have spent some time on this forum but you have not learned much. You should take your time to explore the Coping with Infidelity section of the forum. Information in this section is good enough to EDUCATE any husband.


----------



## frenchpaddy

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Why would she LIE about her activities with _this_ co-worker to her husband? Why would she delete his texts in her phone so that her husband won't see much? This is RED FLAG behavior to any self-respecting husband, and infidelity can be safely inferred in this matter.
> 
> In addition to the above, the wife would come back to her husband after spending a night with _this_ co-worker in a hotel room and would initiate sex with him (EACH TIME). This is out-of-norm for her as well. She is COLD to her husband at home otherwise. Another RED FLAG to account for.
> 
> Perhaps you are not good at recognizing questionable behavioral patterns.; I am, and I have pointed out the obvious.
> 
> Your post count shows that you have spent some time on this forum but you have not learned much. You should take your time to explore the Coping with Infidelity section of the forum.


I don't think she is a saint far from it but the most import thing is catch her in the act , he knows is has cheated deep down ,
She would not be the first Sex in the Office: How common is it? - Better2Know Blog.


----------



## TRy

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Perhaps you are not good at recognizing questionable behavioral patterns.; I am, and I have pointed out the obvious.


The poster is bringing up the possibility that instead of this being a regular ongoing affair, this is an every now and then sex thing. Such on again and off again cheating is very hard to detect and prove.

Perhaps you should get off of your high horse.


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## HarryBosch

When I was married and my wife was away on business in a hotel, if sex became a topic, whether that was a simple "I miss you", we'd gravitate to naughtier things. If I were a few hours away, we would have found a way to take advantage of that hotel.

If my wife said no, don't come over, I would think something is up.

Something is up... she's hiding something. Cheating? I'd wager a small bet she is.

I've learned with all my mistakes with my wife that if she ever passed on sex, she either was ill or something was very wrong. She is definitely lying about things, and that should be concerning.

My advice is to start preparing yourself, now! Get your life in order... start the process of moving on. Once that hammer drops, you're literally on your own.


----------



## hamadryad

I didn't read all the replies....

I only have this to add...

I would not want a woman in my life(w or not), that is all into what she is doing...She could be completely innocent as far as actual infidelity, but I don't GAF...

Its childish and stupid, IMO... I know people do it all the time, its just that I don't want that kind of a woman in my life...And I am not really all that jealous or controlling of a person...

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel over this...Life is hard enough without that type of thing...02


----------



## HarryBosch

Marc878 said:


> One reason you don’t seem to know much is all you’ve done is talk. Talk gets you *NOTHING. *
> Only actions will accomplish what you seek. Without a plan you won’t achieve much.


Talking sucks.. you can talk yourself in circles, whether that is with yourself or another person. You need to start a plan and put things into action. Nothing will get more attention than a spouse who say's "I'm moving on".. and does.


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## LeGenDary_Man

TRy said:


> The poster is bringing up the possibility that instead of this being a regular ongoing affair, this is an every now and then sex thing. Such on again and off again cheating is very hard to detect and prove.
> 
> Perhaps you should get off of your high horse.


His suspicion is ON THE MARK. But he is too afraid to do anything about it.

Sounds like I touched a nerve here as well. Perhaps you need to revisit your attitude.


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## Livvie

I also agree that the sex she initiated was just in case she turned up pregnant from the other man.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

frenchpaddy said:


> I don't think she is a saint far from it but the most import thing is catch her in the act , he knows is has cheated deep down ,
> She would not be the first Sex in the Office: How common is it? - Better2Know Blog.


The husband [in question] also disclosed that his wife had an expression of guilt on her face when she returned from her last known outing with her co-worker:

_"I only found these calls a weeks ago so it's only playing in my mind since then. What tipped me off or should I say why my gut started screaming at me to check her phone, was when I came home from work the day after she returned from this work do, was that she even looked guilty of something. She was sitting there almost looking into space and for once, wasn't on her phone."_

The wife of member (Chulo) had expressions of guilt on her face as well. She [was] cheating on him with a co-worker. There are similarities in these two cases.


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## *Deidre*

Even if she isn’t cheating sexually, her constant contact with this guy bothers you, you’ve told her, and she doesn’t care. I think she’s cheating too but that didn’t happen over night. She ignored that it bothered you all along.

You have a sexless marriage. Probably time to move on. In my opinion, a spouse doesn’t need to “confess, in order for the betrayed spouse to leave. I think people are afraid to leave, they’re in denial etc …and I get that. Break ups, and divorces are really hard, but staying in a sham of a marriage is worse, imo.


----------



## bygone

I think your wife had an affair and was cheated on you.

You swept the Carpet 5 years ago and your wife continues to relate to the comfort of working with om.

Your wife has no respect for you and you don't have the courage to ask the truth.

you should talk to a lawyer,


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## Rebel81

hamadryad said:


> I didn't read all the replies....
> 
> I only have this to add...
> 
> I would not want a woman in my life(w or not), that is all into what she is doing...She could be completely innocent as far as actual infidelity, but I don't GAF...
> 
> Its childish and stupid, IMO... I know people do it all the time, its just that I don't want that kind of a woman in my life...And I am not really all that jealous or controlling of a person...
> 
> You are twisting yourself into a pretzel over this...Life is hard enough without that type of thing...02


Yes it gets too me, even if she isn't doing anything, it's all I can think about. Is she not who she says she is?!!


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## Rebel81

HarryBosch said:


> Talking sucks.. you can talk yourself in circles, whether that is with yourself or another person. You need to start a plan and put things into action. Nothing will get more attention than a spouse who say's "I'm moving on".. and does.


I've avoided any kind of intimacy with her, have not iniatiated. I've worked, went to the gym, took our kids out etc. Heading out with a buddy tomorrow. 

Setting up my home gym shortly and will work on myself. 

Hopefully that's a starting point thank you


----------



## Rebel81

bygone said:


> I think your wife had an affair and was cheated on you.
> 
> You swept the Carpet 5 years ago and your wife continues to relate to the comfort of working with om.
> 
> Your wife has no respect for you and you don't have the courage to ask the truth.
> 
> you should talk to a lawyer,


Thanks for your reply.

I don't ask because the last time I asked, she answered the question with anger to the point that she made me look jealous and controlling.


TRy said:


> When doing marriage studies, a common definition of a sexless marriage is having sex 10 or less times a year. 52 weeks in a year divided by you having sex every 6 weeks equals sex 8.66 times a year. Thus in most sex studies you are by definition in a sexless marriage. This fact alone needs to be addressed.
> 
> Remember, you took a wedding vow of monogamy, not a vow of celibacy.


Absolutely, and I'll always rmemeber her telling me she promises our sex life will improve. This was before we got married. Guess what, no sex night of wedding. OK, we were both drunk. None the night after, drunk again. 3rd night... She said she was so tired and if it was OK if we did it the next night.


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## Marc878

Your life will be what you make it. It’s a choice.


----------



## bygone

I wrote elsewhere.

cheaters stick to the same mold.

to use, to control, to manipulate.

Your wife has practiced the above throughout the marriage.

You can guess her relationship is 5 years, do you want to save the marriage or will your wife come back now!!.

You should talk to the lawyer, he can find people to help you with the evidence. (you may need to inform your wife's workplace)

Don't bother for proof if it won't help you legally, just file it and have it served at your wife's place of work.

If your wife wants to save the marriage, ask her to buy a polygraph.You better arrange the polygraph and go with your wife.


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## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I don't ask because the last time I asked, she answered the question with anger to the point that she made me look jealous and controlling.
> 
> Absolutely, and I'll always rmemeber her telling me she promises our sex life will improve. This was before we got married. Guess what, no sex night of wedding. OK, we were both drunk. None the night after, drunk again. 3rd night... She said she was so tired and if it was OK if we did it the next night.



Excuses, excuses, excuses. That's all you seem to have. And the reason why? You are a pushover. You need to find your cojones and reattach them.


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## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I don't ask because the last time I asked, she answered the question with anger to the point that she made me look jealous and controlling.
> 
> Absolutely, and I'll always rmemeber her telling me she promises our sex life will improve. This was before we got married. Guess what, no sex night of wedding. OK, we were both drunk. None the night after, drunk again. 3rd night... She said she was so tired and if it was OK if we did it the next night.


Uh…………. And you held this info to yourself for 5 pages???
Simple answer: your wife was NEVER into you romantically. So what is your purpose in the relationship? Why does she stay with you?

Also, why do you care whether you look “jealous and controlling”, and where is your anger at her shenanigans?

Dude. I mean…,, DUDE….


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## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> Absolutely, and I'll always rmemeber her telling me she promises our sex life will improve. This was before we got married. Guess what, no sex night of wedding. OK, we were both drunk. None the night after, drunk again. 3rd night... She said she was so tired and if it was OK if we did it the next night.


I have a very close friend that surprised me when he told me that he was unhappy in his marriage and could see himself staying in the marriage much longer. I told that I was shocked as from my point of view she was beautiful, sweet, and just an all around nice person. He said that she is, but that he did not sign on for a sexless marriage. I asked did she know that was thinking of ending the marriage, and he said that she did not. I told him that he should tell her and give her a chance to fix it.

We then walked through what he should say and do. He told her that he was unhappy, and that although he still loved her, he cannot see himself still being married to her in a few years. That when he married her he was looking for a wife and not just another friend. That if she did not work with him for real change in the sex department, he was done. He was not rushing her with a short term timeline, and he would give her the time she needs to do this, but he needs to see effort. Additionally, he told he that she must take the active lead, but he will do his part.

They went to marriage counseling. They started real dating again where she dressed sexy, and where the chance for sex had to be a possibility. She also had to stop allowing other men friendly “innocent touching” of her (long story, but advised by MC); this turned out to be a much bigger thing than he realized.

The bottom line is that he now has a healthy sex life and their marriage was saved. He had to be willing to leave the marriage in order to save it. Now he did not have to deal with infidelity, so if that is a factor I do not know how factor that in.


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## Rebel81

TRy said:


> I have a very close friend that surprised me when he told me that he was unhappy in his marriage and could see himself staying in the marriage much longer. I told that I was shocked as from my point of view she was beautiful, sweet, and just an all around nice person. He said that she is, but that he did not sign on for a sexless marriage. I asked did she know that was thinking of ending the marriage, and he said that she did not. I told him that he should tell her and give her a chance to fix it.
> 
> We then walked through what he should say and do. He told her that he was unhappy, and that although he still loved her, he cannot see himself still being married to her in a few years. That when he married her he was looking for a wife and not just another friend. That if she did not work with him for real change in the sex department, he was done. He was not rushing her with a short term timeline, and he would give her the time she needs to do this, but he needs to see effort. Additionally, he told he that she must take the active lead, but he will do his part.
> 
> They went to marriage counseling. They started real dating again where she dressed sexy, and where the chance for sex had to be a possibility. She also had to stop allowing other men friendly “innocent touching” of her (long story, but advised by MC); this turned out to be a much bigger thing than he realized.
> 
> The bottom line is that he now has a healthy sex life and their marriage was saved. He had to be willing to leave the marriage in order to save it. Now he did not have to deal with infidelity, so if that is a factor I do not know how factor that in.


I want to improve our overall marriage but at the moment there is no marriage at all. Just 2 parents living together. 

So by him pretty much making an ultimatum of sorts and going for MC, she turned around and they now have a good sex life. Women eh!!


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## Marc878

If it is an affair marriage counseling is worthless. There are lots of marriage advice and a lot of it is selling snake oil. Many will jump on anything that seems hopium related.


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## Rebel81

"Simple answer: your wife was NEVER into you romantically. So what is your purpose in the relationship? Why does she stay with you" 

Not into me because of that alone? We've had a 2 kids in the last few years, she had a few small health complications. So she hasn't exactly been in a position to have sex fully throughout the relationship.

I cannot answer your last question.


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## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> I've avoided any kind of intimacy with her, have not iniatiated. I've worked, went to the gym, took our kids out etc. Heading out with a buddy tomorrow.
> 
> Setting up my home gym shortly and will work on myself.
> 
> Hopefully that's a starting point thank you


To me this is shouting yourself in the foot avoiding to communicate with the one person who can truly help you turn it around: 
Are they also unhappy with how infrequently you’re being intimate? 
This idea of filling your time with others and beating around the bush is like flogging yourself ,


----------



## ShatteredKat

Livvie said:


> I also agree that the sex she initiated was just in case she turned up pregnant from the other man.


This thought occurred to me as soon as I put together the frequency of sex and her unusual initiation.

OP - you need to start planning for divorce so you are prepared on your own time for the event if your marital status
has to change.

as a brat that survived parents who could give alley cats lessons - know that "staying for the kids" is more damaging that
going separate ways and living a happy life

I survived my 20s in spite of my actions with single and married women and there were a couple of married ones that were the on the factory bicycle team. Well, it was free and NSA I thought so why not? Fortunately I never got an STD from that activity. And there several bicycles that I chose not to ride. All married. 

Point? NSA with 'stud of choice' and no entanglements - just a get together and F and then go on with life. NSA!

Now, what about your wife?


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## Rebel81

I hear you man. 

What about my wife. Who knows, honestly.


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## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> she had a few small health complications. So she hasn't exactly been in a position to have sex fully throughout the relationship.


 The friend that I just told you about that was in a sexless marriage, his wife had medical issues that directly led to the sexless marriage. Surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation made her hate being touched afterwards. She also thought of him more as a caregiver and less as her romantic lead. When she was healthy again her desire for him to touch, cuddle, or have sex with her did not come back on its own, and he was understanding being the Mr. Nice Guy type.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> "Simple answer: your wife was NEVER into you romantically. So what is your purpose in the relationship? Why does she stay with you"
> 
> Not into me because of that alone? We've had a 2 kids in the last few years, she had a few small health complications. So she hasn't exactly been in a position to have sex fully throughout the relationship.
> 
> I cannot answer your last question.


Yes, a woman that doesn’t have sex with her husband on their wedding night? Isn’t wanting to rip us clothes off? Isn’t looking forward to sharing that with him especially now that they are husband and wife? Yeah that speaks volumes.

why be so vague with the medical complications that prevented sex? My suspicions are that the complications or their length of recovery time are/were exaggerated.

I have three kids, all by c-section. I can count on one hand how many months I missed sex due to kids.
Your wife constantly has excuses. She’s too tired, she’s sick, she has a headache, she’s not in the mood, and in and on. We’ve heard them all on the forum. If she wanted it with you—- you’d be getting it.
I’m telling you that women that are really into their man DO WANT SEX and regularly. 

My suggestion is to detach and move on. I know that’s not what you want to hear. But considering that your wife appears to be cheating, at the very least talking to other men, and that she gives you no romantic interaction, why not move on?

How can you fix it if she doesn’t want to fix it?
Why not just tell her you’re not accepting her overnight drunken partying and sleepovers with other men, and that if she is no longer interested in restarting and having an intimate, romantic relationship with you that includes regular sex, you’re going to part ways?

No need to fight, argue, or yell at this point.
But you have zero boundaries and she treats you like crap. That should end.
It won’t end without consequences. If you’re not going to give any, you’ll continue to get this same old garbage treatment. 

calm but firm like a rock. When you mean it, you’ll see changes, even if that means she asks for a divorce. If so, it’s for the best.

you really should see an attorney and get papers, so she understands you’ve had enough—- if you have.


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## Lostinthought61

I would file for divorce on the grounds of adultary and have her serviced and see what kind of response you get...look you don't have a marraige anyway so why stick around...hoping that she will finally fall in love with you is a pipe dream and every day you wait for her to fall in love is just one day more of sadness.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> I hear you man.
> 
> What about my wife. Who knows, honestly.


I feel you want to fix your marriage and that is a good thing, If you wanted to call it a day and go your own way even if it was just for a time I fully support that sometimes a brake away from each other makes people relay find a way to talk in full honesty that they never had before .
Forget what people think yes we all like to keep the best side out to our family and people we know ,
Don't forget on any given day out with your friends like a wedding or other family get together A big number of the couples are only barely holding it together.
We all know what it is like to have a shouting match getting ready for a big event and then have to put on a face for the family and for a few hours enjoy his or her company.

There are lots of DIRECTIONS that have not been talked about it is a pity if you can't show this topic to your wife in a way to show her how you feel and how your reading living together with her , yes she might take it as a betrayal that your talking to others FING STRANGERS about her but I think she has talked about you to this man , 
He got her to confide in him 5 years ago when she wanted you to be friends , 

Another thing to look into is how good are you in the sack, not trying to move blame ,
but many people after the divorce find out that in fact both were in part to blame for the brake up because one was not able to bring themselves to say that "the way you touch me in bed is to rough or too hard or you don't do foreplay enough or may be even too much or even when your banging you act like your drilling a well with a street jackhammer 
There is two types of _vaginismus_ out there and I AM NO EXPERT IN THIS but one comes from how we are conditioned growing up , girls are often thought sex is dirty sex is bad and that boys only want you for sex and so on to keep them from getting pregnant. You WERE born before DIVORCE was even legal and when I was young in Ireland condoms could not be bought in the supermarket but you had to go into the pharmaceutic and ask the man that know you , know your mother and father for a box of condoms as they were on the back shelf. SO your wife if not old enough to have grown up in holy Ireland her mother was and it takes more than one generation to change and now we even see the USA rolling back to older times . This type _vaginismus_ is split into two types one comes from as i have talked about what is peer pressure the other comes from two things one is the no foreplay just a crappy lover the other is from receiving trauma OF SOME KIND could be rape or other sexual trauma once or over time 

Some women do grow up having a father or a brother or might even be a worker that was trusted by the family come in to do diy type work and was nothing better that a pedophile , MY wife suffered this type abuse where he never had sex with her but did enough inappropriate things under the one i am teaching you about your body or about sex in a family where sex was not talked about 

there is also clinical _vaginismus_ 

just putting it out there as the friendship she has with this guy could be she has found a thing in him that makes it easy to talk to him about things that are very deep .


----------



## Rebel81

You make some valid points. 

Yes she probably grew up in old Catholic Ireland 


frenchpaddy said:


> I feel you want to fix your marriage and that is a good thing, If you wanted to call it a day and go your own way even if it was just for a time I fully support that sometimes a brake away from each other makes people relay find a way to talk in full honesty that they never had before .
> Forget what people think yes we all like to keep the best side out to our family and people we know ,
> Don't forget on any given day out with your friends like a wedding or other family get together A big number of the couples are only barely holding it together.
> We all know what it is like to have a shouting match getting ready for a big event and then have to put on a face for the family and for a few hours enjoy his or her company.
> 
> There are lots of DIRECTIONS that have not been talked about it is a pity if you can't show this topic to your wife in a way to show her how you feel and how your reading living together with her , yes she might take it as a betrayal that your talking to others FING STRANGERS about her but I think she has talked about you to this man ,
> He got her to confide in him 5 years ago when she wanted you to be friends ,
> 
> Another thing to look into is how good are you in the sack, not trying to move blame ,
> but many people after the divorce find out that in fact both were in part to blame for the brake up because one was not able to bring themselves to say that "the way you touch me in bed is to rough or too hard or you don't do foreplay enough or may be even too much or even when your banging you act like your drilling a well with a street jackhammer
> There is two types of _vaginismus_ out there and I AM NO EXPERT IN THIS but one comes from how we are conditioned growing up , girls are often thought sex is dirty sex is bad and that boys only want you for sex and so on to keep them from getting pregnant. You WERE born before DIVORCE was even legal and when I was young in Ireland condoms could not be bought in the supermarket but you had to go into the pharmaceutic and ask the man that know you , know your mother and father for a box of condoms as they were on the back shelf. SO your wife if not old enough to have grown up in holy Ireland her mother was and it takes more than one generation to change and now we even see the USA rolling back to older times . This type _vaginismus_ is split into two types one comes from as i have talked about what is peer pressure the other comes from two things one is the no foreplay just a crappy lover the other is from receiving trauma OF SOME KIND could be rape or other sexual trauma once or over time
> 
> Some women do grow up having a father or a brother or might even be a worker that was trusted by the family come in to do diy type work and was nothing better that a pedophile , MY wife suffered this type abuse where he never had sex with her but did enough inappropriate things under the one i am teaching you about your body or about sex in a family where sex was not talked about
> 
> there is also clinical _vaginismus_
> 
> just putting it out there as the friendship she has with this guy could be she has found a thing in him that makes it easy to talk to him about things that are very deep .


You make some valid points. 

In the sack, I always bring her to orgasm as I did with exes. Loads of foreplay, soft and rough. 

Yes I'm a pushover. I don't get angry with her, when I should. She said to me in the past why don't I ever show anger. So that is gonna happen. 

My old me is still there. I was wondering how long I would be out tonight with my buddy, because if its too late, I might miss the opportunity for sex. Ha it never happens. I need to get real now. 

I'm not in great shape. I need to work on that also and become fitter, stronger, more attractive. And that's for me.


----------



## big777

Rebel81 said:


> Hi Guys and gals. I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed. One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this. She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now! My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair. Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning. My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call. My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right. I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


 It's funny but I have just put up a post with a slightly similar problem, "Worried about my Wife" I would be more worried about your situation than mine but mine is getting more interesting but unlike yours does not involve overnight stays. I would be worried


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Rebel81 said:


> Yes I'm a pushover. I don't get angry with her, when I should. She said to me in the past why don't I ever show anger. So that is gonna happen.


I have to agree with your wife on this one.

I pointed out this problem in following post:









Wife and her male colleague


Most professionals agree that a sexless marriage is one in which sex occurs less than once a month or less than ten times per year. While once a month would not technically be considered a sexless marriage by this measurement, a more important barometer is whether or not the lack of sex bothers...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





I am also married. I understand woman among other things.



Rebel81 said:


> My old me is still there. I was wondering how long I would be out tonight with my buddy, because if its too late, I might miss the opportunity for sex. Ha it never happens. I need to get real now.
> 
> I'm not in great shape. I need to work on that also and become fitter, stronger, more attractive. And that's for me.


Good decision. Do this for "YOU."

If you are planning to do 180 then check following threads:









What is the 180?


I've come across the term "The 180", and I'm curious.. sounds like more than a definition. Can someone steer me to understanding what it is?




www.talkaboutmarriage.com













Wife wants to be a free bird again


Me (36) and my wife (36)are married for almost 8 years, last year my wife lost her mother and I was very supportive. I try to show her as much love as possible and giving her free space so she can deal with her emotions. Just to mention that in the time of her mother being treated for cancer and...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





You might learn something, hopefully.

You need to:

1. Get in shape.
2. *Prepare* to confront your wife.

I have given you pointers in following post:









Wife and her male colleague


Why do you believe such incredibly poorly devised lies? I don't believe it at all.




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Do NOT cling to HOPIUM.

Remember this. Marital situations can be much easier to FIX when infidelity is NOT the core issue in the background. Waste of time otherwise.

Some women have also commented in this thread. Take their perspective seriously at minimum.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I'd say the latter.
> 
> Over nights at bachelorette parties? That is totally the norm where I am from.
> 
> We have kids and a mortgage. I need solid proof that she is cheating. But if someone else wrote what I wrote, I would say its cheating all day long.
> 
> I do love her, but I'm not in love with her.


WTH

No way would I or my spouse go to any afterhours business party without the other. If a luncheon during work hours, fine. If during my family hours(off work hours) and my spouse is not invited then neither am I.

My thinking if the sex is not guilt or cucking you. If she is childbearing years, she is hedging her bets, so if she gets pregnant, the time lines add up. If she became pregnant and had not had sex with you but week or so on either side of the parties, but the conception lined up to the Christmas party date...there you go, she is busted.

My 2nd son's birth lined up to my 7th anniversary as conception date.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> We have always had separate plans.
> 
> Back 5 years ago when she went to the Xmas party with him, I discovered after checking her phone that there was only one text message on her phone from him. She admitted she deleted them as he goes on and on and his messages could be misinterpreted. Apparently he wears his heart on his sleeve. I'm sure he does!!


Major red flag for covering her tracks. There is a lot more with this guy.


----------



## hamadryad

Here's the thing, and quite frankly I am surprised most people don't think about it from this perspective. 

You can get angry about it. You can launch a big investigation to get to the bottom of it. You can blow the whole thing up and let the chips fall wherever they fall. Etc. Etc. 

At the end of the day, it really won't matter much. In most situations the other person won't be fazed about it or make some radical change to make everything great again. 

No one can tell you what YOU should do. We aren't you. We don't know what or who you really are. Telling someone to try to be more "alpha male" is like telling someone to be more like an NBA Superstar. If its not in you, it won't mean a crap anyway. That doesn't make you a bad or damaged person. The world is full of "pushover" type men who's wives adore them. I know a few myself. It's not that. 

It's entirely likely that you guys were just simply a mismatch from the get go. Period. So she's now figured that to be the case and is living her life in the way she wants. You just need to do the same thing. No fighting. No arguing. No nothing. If there are kids involved make sure their needs are met but then start to lay the foundation for the remainder of your time on this Earth. 

Plan things for your future. Take care of yourself. Visualize what that looks like. Don't let anger and resentment drag you down. It doesn't help you in the end. It robs you of precious energy that you need to get the life you really want.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> Why doesn't she hide her phone, like most cheaters do?
> 
> Why didn't she delete the call log showing the calls with this guy?
> 
> By the way, she works in front line services and works nights etc. You can take a guess at what she does. A private investigator won't find out much here, trust me on that.
> 
> Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her. She never compliments me. I raised this with her before and she said she finds me attractive, and pays me compliments by doing things for me. Like ensuring I have a dinner, the house is clean, making me a coffee etc.
> 
> One thing she doesn't do is leave the house during the evening to possibly meet this or any other guy. Which means she would only do it when working.
> 
> I only found these calls a weeks ago so it's only playing in my mind since then. What tipped me off or should I say why my gut started screaming at me to check her phone, was when I came home from work the day after she returned from this work do, was that she even looked guilty of something. She was sitting there almost looking into space and for once, wasn't on her phone.


If she is a nurse, cheating is rampany. There are rooms/beds everywhere to get freaky in. 

Exactly as I suspected, she has sex with you after she has had sex with someone else so if she gets pregnant the dates line up to pass it off as yours. I hope your kids are all over 6-7 yrs old or may need to DNA them.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> "Simple answer: your wife was NEVER into you romantically. So what is your purpose in the relationship? Why does she stay with you"
> 
> Not into me because of that alone? We've had a 2 kids in the last few years, she had a few small health complications. So she hasn't exactly been in a position to have sex fully throughout the relationship.
> 
> I cannot answer your last question.


DNA the kids!


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## frenchpaddy

Divinely Favored said:


> DNA the kids!


 I am suprised this has not been said before now ,


----------



## Rebel81

My son in a miniature version of me.


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## Kaliber

@Rebel81 I know you said you will start fully working on yourself, %100 you should, but about your wife, what's your plan?


----------



## Rebel81

Kaliber said:


> @Rebel81 I know you said you will start fully working on yourself, %100 you should, but about your wife, what's your plan?


I don't have a specific plan. I know if say anything, it will be taken underground. So be quiet and watch.


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## RandomDude

Rebel81 said:


> I don't have a specific plan. I know if say anything, it will be taken underground. So be quiet and watch.


Good plan.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Uh…………. And you held this info to yourself for 5 pages???
> Simple answer: your wife was NEVER into you romantically. So what is your purpose in the relationship? Why does she stay with you?
> 
> Also, why do you care whether you look “jealous and controlling”, and where is your anger at her shenanigans?
> 
> Dude. I mean…,, DUDE….


That's a hard one to accept. She was really into me for thr first 2 years. Loads of sex, loads of compliments, her arranging dates etc. Which is normal for thr start of a relationship. 

That has reduced obviously to the point where there are no compliments, none that is ould consider a complement, and sex every 5 or 6 weeks.


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## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> That's a hard one to accept. She was really into me for thr first 2 years. Loads of sex, loads of compliments, her arranging dates etc. Which is normal for thr start of a relationship.
> 
> That has reduced obviously to the point where there are no compliments, none that is ould consider a complement, and sex every 5 or 6 weeks.


could be she used sex to trap a man , once he was in the bag there was no need to keep up the sex .

A good thing to do would be to ask her what is sex for her ,
AND WHAT IS SEX FOR YOU .
Then both of you list what you need in sex then what you want and what you like and what you don't like and what is out for you


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## Rebel81

frenchpaddy said:


> could be she used sex to trap a man , once he was in the bag there was no need to keep up the sex .
> 
> A good thing to do would be to ask her what is sex for her ,
> AND WHAT IS SEX FOR YOU .
> Then both of you list what you need in sex then what you want and what you like and what you don't like and what is out for you


Sounds reasonable. I just don't accept that she has a low sex drive to the point that I'm me at to accept it. Should I accept sex every 6 weeks? We are coming up on 4 weeks again without sex. Last time was when she came back from the bacholerette party, all horned up, and direvelty telling me all day that she wants to have sex later that night.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> Sounds reasonable. I just don't accept that she has a low sex drive to the point that I'm me at to accept it. Should I accept sex every 6 weeks? We are coming up on 4 weeks again without sex. Last time was when she came back from the bacholerette party, all horned up, and direvelty telling me all day that she wants to have sex later that night.


why put it off until night , 
It is not for me to tell you what is good sex and what you should except , 
it is why I posted before on both making their list and then show it to each other after, 
if you and she are waiting for the other to make the first move , it is a bit like the ballroom of romance where the men are lined up at one side and the women at the other and each waiting for the other the move ,
counting weeks months or years has no use , 
Who cares if you did not get your rocks off is the last 4 weeks , it only matters to both you , 
If you not going to help yourself talking about it is of no point , 
What you would be better doing if you wish to keep a list of sex encounters with your wife is make a list of how many times you made the advance and how many times it was excepted and led to sex and if not why not 
It could make good reading for her after 8 weeks , if you show her you pushed the cast 170 times that is only about 3 times a day and if out of the 170 times you were turned down 168 times and out of that 58 was headache, 106 times too tired , and the other times other reasons to not do it , 
BUT if 102 times is because she was at work then you advance is not timed right .
There is two people in the couple both have rights and sex is very much a need for humans and no one has the right to be the only one that holds all the power over how, when, where and if you do it , 
it is not the only thing that is a need but when your not getting it it becomes a lot more important that it normally should be . 
I take it at this time of day your at work you could send her a a sms asking her what sex is for her and to make her list of what she likes what she does not like what she expects , and what ever , it is just between you , that way it gets her thinking about sex when your not together and should not be like a order to fill this list full stop


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## Marc878

She’s already informed him she has a low sex drive and it’s fine with her.
I doubt more talk is going to get you much. Actions speak louder. 
Reread ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by glover.


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## frenchpaddy

there is a few topic here with people and next to no sex drive , the thing is they have to except that if they are happy this way fine but they can not forse others to be the same


----------



## syhoybenden

Rebel81 said:


> My son in a miniature version of me.


Yeah. Okay. Sure.

And that's what you all say.

Nonetheless, having the test done openly sends a clear message of the damage she is doing/has done to your relationship ... to your love.


----------



## Rebel81

syhoybenden said:


> Yeah. Okay. Sure.
> 
> And that's what you all say.
> 
> Nonetheless, having the test done openly sends a clear message of the damage she is doing/has done to your relationship ... to your love.


Don't think that is possible. Is that not a total betrayal of trust, at a crazy level.


----------



## Kaliber

Rebel81 said:


> Don't think that is possible. Is that not a total betrayal of trust, at a crazy level.


@Rebel81 you have no idea the stories we got here through out the years!
One story about a guy (maybe someone here can find his thread) who over heard his wife chatting with her friends and joking about the kids (very subtle joke), it didn't sit well with him, he DNA tested the kids and found that ALL his kids (if I remember they were three kids) are not his.. he had a good marriage by the way!


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

hamadryad said:


> Here's the thing, and quite frankly I am surprised most people don't think about it from this perspective.
> 
> You can get angry about it. You can launch a big investigation to get to the bottom of it. You can blow the whole thing up and let the chips fall wherever they fall. Etc. Etc.
> 
> At the end of the day, it really won't matter much. In most situations the other person won't be fazed about it or make some radical change to make everything great again.
> 
> No one can tell you what YOU should do. We aren't you. We don't know what or who you really are. Telling someone to try to be more "alpha male" is like telling someone to be more like an NBA Superstar. If its not in you, it won't mean a crap anyway. That doesn't make you a bad or damaged person. The world is full of "pushover" type men who's wives adore them. I know a few myself. It's not that.
> 
> It's entirely likely that you guys were just simply a mismatch from the get go. Period. So she's now figured that to be the case and is living her life in the way she wants. You just need to do the same thing. No fighting. No arguing. No nothing. If there are kids involved make sure their needs are met but then start to lay the foundation for the remainder of your time on this Earth.
> 
> Plan things for your future. Take care of yourself. Visualize what that looks like. Don't let anger and resentment drag you down. It doesn't help you in the end. It robs you of precious energy that you need to get the life you really want.


I think that this post warrants a separate discussion but I will chime in this time.

The RED-pilled Alpha attitude is not healthy in my view. This is MGTOW behavior.

When you (a man) is in a relationship, then it is not OK to be a jerk to a woman. Some women will not tolerate this behavior and will not stick around for long.

But:

1. You (a man) should NOT be a pushover.
2. You (a man) should NOT be emotionless.
3. You (a man) should be communicative.

These shortcomings can KILL attraction otherwise. *IF* a woman will marry you (a man), she will have "expectations" from you.

The most important point is this: It is in the nature of a woman to TEST you (a man) in a relationship. She will do this from time-to-time by seeking your permission to do something. -----[1]

Many men seem to MISS the obvious. These men are sold to Feminist shaming tropes that they should not be jealous and controlling (the buzzwords). These men feel the need to PLEASE a woman to keep her around. These men FEAR that she will leave otherwise. These men FEAR that they cannot find somebody better *IF* she leaves. These men are NOT mentally strong and confident.

These men do NOT establish marital boundaries and enforce them. These men mistakenly assume that the wife will never test them (him) and is infallible. All will be well because she is married to him while he pays the bills and gives her a good time in bedroom.

Absolutely NOT. Refer back to [1].

She will TEST him at some point and he will give in. She will TEST him further at some point and he will give in further. This dynamic will continue and she will eventually realize that her husband is WEAK, reluctant to establish marital boundaries, and FEAR loosing her. She will realize that SHE is the best he can hope to be with. She will become bold and get the impression that she can do anything she wants and get away with it. She now has all the POWER in the relationship. This is a slippery slope and she might SLIP eventually.

The pushover husband, on the other hand, will continue to romance her and have kids with her irrespective of what she does. He is sold to DISNEY romantic tropes.

Then one fine day, he will be wondering what went wrong. But by now, he will have kids and is stuck. Then he opens a thread here...

This plays over and over again.

*IF* you (a man) care about your marriage and want it to succeed then do *NOT* be a pushover, reluctant to express your concerns and establish marital boundaries. 

*IF* she is a working woman and attractive, you should be concerned. *IF* she have friends who are WILD (partying and hookups), you should be concerned. Other men will HIT on her and TEMPT from time-to-time. Wild friends will TEMPT her as well.

There are men in this forum who can tell you (any man) what happens in parties and/or outings involving a mix of men and women [after office hours] when this type of socialization is allowed to continue by the husband.

Member @blackclover3 for instance.









My insecurities and jealousy


So, what you are saying is that she should be at home all the time trapped with a jealous and insecure man, and she is not allowed to go out... not all time, just as much as an average woman would do to an anxious husband! to help him to cope with it, and make things better!!!!!! besides, you...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Member @TAMAT also have observations.

She is already spending much time interacting with her co-workers in the office. It is for the best that these interactions are related to work in large part. Her time [after office hours], belongs to you (the husband). You should PLAN activities with her in these hours instead.

This is my take of the matter.

-----

Learn to stand your ground and say NO when you see something wrong. No _ifs_ and _buts_.

Learn to establish marital boundaries.

Trust, but verify. Encourage communication and access to each other's devices.

Do not be a pushover or you will be pushed around. Common sense.


----------



## hamadryad

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I think that this post warrants a separate discussion but I will chime in this time.
> 
> The RED-pilled Alpha attitude is not healthy in my view. This is MGTOW behavior.
> 
> When you (a man) is in a relationship, then it is not OK to be a jerk to a woman. Some women will not tolerate this behavior and will not stick around for long.
> 
> But:
> 
> 1. You (a man) should NOT be a pushover.
> 2. You (a man) should NOT be emotionless.
> 3. You (a man) should be communicative.
> 
> These shortcomings can KILL attraction otherwise. *IF* a woman will marry you (a man), she will have "expectations" from you.
> 
> The most important point is this: It is in the nature of a woman to TEST you (a man). She will do this from time-to-time by seeking your permission to do something. -----[1]
> 
> Many men seem to MISS the obvious. These men are sold to Feminist shaming tropes that they should not be jealous and controlling (the buzzwords). These men feel the need to PLEASE a woman to keep her around. These men FEAR that she will leave otherwise. These men FEAR that they cannot find somebody better *IF* she leaves. These men are NOT mentally strong and confident.
> 
> These men do NOT establish marital boundaries and enforce them. These men mistakenly assume that the wife will never test them (him) and is infallible. All will be well now because she is married to him while he pays the bills and gives her a good time in bedroom.
> 
> Absolutely NOT. Refer back to [1].
> 
> She will TEST him at some point and he will give in. She will TEST him further at some point and he will give in further. This dynamic will continue and she will eventually realize that her husband is WEAK, reluctant to establish marital boundaries for her, and FEAR loosing her. She will realize that SHE is the best he can hope to be with. She will become bold and get the impression that she can do anything she wants and get away with it. She now has all the POWER in the relationship. This is a slippery slope and she might SLIP eventually.
> 
> The pushover husband, on the other hand, will continue to romance her and have kids with her irrespective of what she does. He is sold to DISNEY romantic tropes.
> 
> Then one fine day, he will be wondering what went wrong. But by now, he will have kids and stuck. Then he opens a thread here...
> 
> This plays over and over again.
> 
> *IF* you (a man) care about your marriage and want it to succeed then do *NOT* be a pushover, reluctant to express your concerns and establish marital boundaries.
> 
> *IF* she is a working woman and attractive, you should be concerned. *IF* she have friends who are WILD (partying and hookups), you should be concerned. Other men will HIT on her and TEMPT from time-to-time. Wild friends will TEMPT her as well.
> 
> There are men in this forum who can tell you (any man) what happens in parties and/or outings involving a mix of men and women [after office hours] when this type of socialization is allowed to continue by the husband.
> 
> Member @blackclover3 for instance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My insecurities and jealousy
> 
> 
> So, what you are saying is that she should be at home all the time trapped with a jealous and insecure man, and she is not allowed to go out... not all time, just as much as an average woman would do to an anxious husband! to help him to cope with it, and make things better!!!!!! besides, you...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.talkaboutmarriage.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Member @TAMAT also have observations.
> 
> She is already spending much time interacting with her co-workers in the office. It is for the best that these interactions are related to work in large part. Her time [after office hours], belongs to you (the husband). You should PLAN activities with her in these hours instead.
> 
> This is my take of the matter.
> 
> -----
> 
> Learn to stand your ground and say NO when you see something wrong. No _ifs_ and _buts_.
> 
> Learn to establish marital boundaries.
> 
> Trust, but verify.



All nonsense here....Sorry...

The point is you have to* BE YOURSELF*.......Period....Any other "act" you put on, is going to be exactly that....an act....

An alpha type just doesn't immediately become a jerk, lol.....That's nonsense...Most actually are quite compassionate and protective of women...

The so called 'pushovers" don't always lose, either....In fact many find partners who think that type of man is their ideal...They may possess other characteristics that the "manly" men dont have, that appeals to them,,,And those same women would wither on the vine with a true alpha,....Many of them wouldn't be able to handle that type...It doesn't make them bad or good, it just makes them who they are...

Worrying about who's going to be hitting on your woman is a fools pursuit...Confident men don't give a crap about that and don't seek to control those women...They know that these other guys don't measure up so they don't figure into the equation....Simps worry about that stuff..

At the end of the day, it all boils down to people selecting the wrong mate...Period...I wish to God people understood this more fully...It would lead to a lot less aggravation and self doubt...You see it all the time...Every woman's ex is a Narcissist and every guys ex is a B!tch with BPD.....Its nonsense in most cases...it was just a simple mismatch that may have started by nothing more than a sexual urge that needed to be satisfied..

There is an ass for every seat, as they say...You just need to match the right ass with the right seat....It rarely happens on the first try, and its a lot less common than people make it out to be,,,,


----------



## frenchpaddy

syhoybenden said:


> Yeah. Okay. Sure.
> 
> And that's what you all say.
> 
> Nonetheless, having the test done openly sends a clear message of the damage she is doing/has done to your relationship ... to your love.


 the test of been an adult is how well they take to other people questing them , if he test the kids no one knows how she will it 


Kaliber said:


> @Rebel81 you have no idea the stories we got here through out the years!
> One story about a guy (maybe someone here can find his thread) who over heard his wife chatting with her friends and joking about the kids (very subtle joke), it didn't sit well with him, he DNA tested the kids and found that ALL his kids (if I remember they were three kids) are not his.. he had a good marriage by the way!


we had a family near us when we went to school and they had 9 kids 4 to the husband the others to other men one her boss the rest friends she used to call the kids after the grandfather of the real father , when the kid of the boss born her husband went into the hospital to see wife and kid and had too much drink , said to his wife he has the head of his father she said " how do you know who his father is , his father is from xxxxxx " the husband attacked her in the bed and had to be put out ,


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

hamadryad said:


> All nonsense here....Sorry...
> 
> The point is you have to* BE YOURSELF*.......Period....Any other "act" you put on, is going to be exactly that....an act....
> 
> An alpha type just doesn't immediately become a jerk, lol.....That's nonsense...Most actually are quite compassionate and protective of women...
> 
> The so called 'pushovers" don't always lose, either....In fact many find partners who think that type of man is their ideal...They may possess other characteristics that the "manly" men dont have, that appeals to them,,,And those same women would wither on the vine with a true alpha,....Many of them wouldn't be able to handle that type...It doesn't make them bad or good, it just makes them who they are...
> 
> Worrying about who's going to be hitting on your woman is a fools pursuit...Confident men don't give a crap about that and don't seek to control those women...They know that these other guys don't measure up so they don't figure into the equation....Simps worry about that stuff..
> 
> At the end of the day, it all boils down to people selecting the wrong mate...Period...I wish to God people understood this more fully...It would lead to a lot less aggravation and self doubt...You see it all the time...Every woman's ex is a Narcissist and every guys ex is a B!tch with BPD.....Its nonsense in most cases...it was just a simple mismatch that may have started by nothing more than a sexual urge that needed to be satisfied..
> 
> There is an ass for every seat, as they say...You just need to match the right ass with the right seat....It rarely happens on the first try, and its a lot less common than people make it out to be,,,,


Of-course, you have to be YOURSELF in your life. You cannot just sit around in a spot and worry about what your woman is up to out there. This is not healthy for you. This is not how you live your life.

But being CAREFREE is not helpful either.

When you establish your household, it is YOUR responsibility to look after it and keep it safe from intruders. Nobody will do this for you but YOU.

You MISSED my point by a long shot.

Perhaps I was not able to communicate my perspective effectively because I like to be to the point. I cannot cover all manner of contingencies in one post.

I stick by my observation that women will test you (a man) from time-to-time. This is her way to figure out how much of a man you are in life. If you do not get this, you do not get this. You are much like the men I described in my post.

What you see around you is very limited. People will not tell you everything. You will continue to observe and learn more about others as time passes by. Never assume that you have seen it all. This forum coupled with other platforms have given me ample perspective in addition to my own experiences and observations in life.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> That's a hard one to accept. She was really into me for thr first 2 years. Loads of sex, loads of compliments, her arranging dates etc. Which is normal for thr start of a relationship.
> 
> That has reduced obviously to the point where there are no compliments, none that is ould consider a complement, and sex every 5 or 6 weeks.


Relationship medical studies show that in new romantic relationships there are brain drugs released that produce a high that is similar to cocaine. Over time the amount of these brain drugs released goes down until after after a few years it is normal for it to be zero, but is suppose to be replaced by other brain drugs that is less intoxicating.

In some cases this can possibly lead to cheating as they seek out the cocaine high again.This has been linked to what some call the 7 year itch. Interaction with new potential romantic partners can shorten how long the high is produced for their existing long term partner even if sex with the new potential partner does not happen (emotional affairs can produce the cocaine like brain drugs). During a high produced by interactions with a new potential partner they could be more open to having sex with their existing partner.

How a long term romantic partner interacts with their partner after the cocaine like brain drug stops being produced varies. In your case, regardless of if they had sex it seems to have damaged your sex life and your relationship with your wife.

The unanswered question is that even if you becomes convinced that your wife has not physically cheated, do you want to put forth the time and energy needed to try to reestablish a sexual relationship with your wife?


----------



## Rebel81

TRy said:


> Relationship medical studies show that in new romantic relationships there are brain drugs released that produce a high that is similar to cocaine. Over time the amount of these brain drugs released goes down until after after a few years it is normal for it to be zero, but is suppose to be replaced by other brain drugs that is less intoxicating.
> 
> In some cases this can possibly lead to cheating as they seek out the cocaine high again.This has been linked to what some call the 7 year itch. Interaction with new potential romantic partners can shorten how long the high is produced for their existing long term partner even if sex with the new potential partner does not happen. During a high produce by interactions with the new potential partner they could be more open to having sex with their existing partner.
> 
> How a long term romantic partner interacts with their partner after the cocaine like brain drug stops being produced varies. In your case, regardless of if they had sex (emotional affairs can produce the cocaine like brain drugs) it seems to have damaged your sex life and your relationship with your wife.
> 
> The unanswered question is that even if the OP becomes convinced that his wife has not physically cheated, does he want to put forth the time and energy needed to reestablish a sexual relationship with his wife?


Yes I do want to reestablish a sexual raltionship. Earlier she came to my office and gave me a kiss. Yesterday she touched my hand as we sat for dinner. My job is to rule out or eliminate thoughts that make me think she does these random acts of affection because she is feeling guilty. 

We hugged today and she said it was great because I haven't hugged her in ages. True, but to be fair, I had my reasons. 

Communication is not my strong point. In the past, I wouldn't speak my mind and would just be resentful. That has to change. To the last few posters, I don't have to become all ALPHA. But I do need to be strong, speak my mind at all times, and certainly enforce boundaries around late night texts, calls and overnights with colleagues. 

As for her being all horned up after a bachelorette party, that bit still bothers me and I wish I could question her on it and gage ger reaction. Obviously she wouldn't tell the truth but at the same point I would know from her reaction what possibly happened, if anything.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> Yes I do want to reestablish a sexual raltionship. Earlier she came to my office and gave me a kiss. Yesterday she touched my hand as we sat for dinner. My job is to rule out or eliminate thoughts that make me think she does these random acts of affection because she is feeling guilty.
> 
> We hugged today and she said it was great because I haven't hugged her in ages. True, but to be fair, I had my reasons.
> 
> Communication is not my strong point. In the past, I wouldn't speak my mind and would just be resentful. That has to change. To the last few posters, I don't have to become all ALPHA. But I do need to be strong, speak my mind at all times, and certainly enforce boundaries around late night texts, calls and overnights with colleagues.
> 
> As for her being all horned up after a bachelorette party, that bit still bothers me and I wish I could question her on it and gage ger reaction. Obviously she wouldn't tell the truth but at the same point I would know from her reaction what possibly happened, if anything.


You going to fix this or act the big man , you need to know when to meet her half way , the worst of these forums is that we only get one side , a hug it not going to make a life time of crap go away , We all know we have been damaged from the min we were born , often that damage is what makes us stay when we should walk and it can all so make us stick our head in the sand and hope it gets better by its self , 

THAT will not happen


----------



## frenchpaddy

something makes me feel you have talked more with me here than you have with her 
I would not be suprised if both are waiting for the other to move first , and both turn things around on each other,
sorry to have to say this but as much as I might like you and your posts it is not me you need to talk to and I am not going to have sex with you


----------



## Rebel81

Of course a hug won't fix ****, my point was that she hasn't withheld all forms of affection. So there has to be something there, as small as that may be.


----------



## Rebel81

frenchpaddy said:


> something makes me feel you have talked more with me here than you have with her
> I would not be suprised if both are waiting for the other to move first , and both turn things around on each other,
> sorry to have to say this but as much as I might like you and your posts it is not me you need to talk to and I am not going to have sex with you


In the last couple of weeks, yes I have spoken here more than I have to her. 

Last time we spoke, I told her it bothered me that's she's on her phone for an hour in bed every night, which kills any possibility of having sex. She said she will try and reduce it. 

I'm not telling her what to do by the way. But she would have been on the couch for a couple of hours on her phone before going to bed, me also at times. But when it's bed time, my phone goes away.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Rebel81 said:


> Communication is not my strong point. In the past, I wouldn't speak my mind and would just be resentful. That has to change. To the last few posters, I don't have to become all ALPHA. But I do need to be strong, speak my mind at all times, and certainly enforce boundaries around late night texts, calls and overnights with colleagues.




Excellent decision.



Rebel81 said:


> As for her being all horned up after a bachelorette party, that bit still bothers me and I wish I could question her on it and gage ger reaction. Obviously she wouldn't tell the truth but at the same point I would know from her reaction what possibly happened, if anything.


While you do the above, do not show to your wife that you are investigating her. Do not tip her off further.

Continue to check her phone and prepare notes of her questionable activities from the start. 

You can also follow your wife to the hotel where she decides to stay for a night next time. Up to you.

You will have to PREPARE to confront her to get a confession from her. You will have to produce sufficient SHOCK EFFECT on her to come clean. This will be possible when you have taken notes of her questionable behavior and have a copy of divorce papers in your hands, and SURPRISE her with these documents in your hands one fine day. You can consult a lawyer beforehand to learn what will be your situation in a divorce.

I completely understand that none of this is easy. You might be in great pain (numb) but you will have to recollect yourself and prepare yourself to take the plunge.

There is much in your disclosure(s) that cannot be taken lightly.

Do not settle for disrespect and crumbs thrown your way for long-term basis. This is not good for you.

Cheaters manipulate a lot. Remember this.

You can provide updates here, if you feel like it. I hope you are able to turn your situation around.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Rebel81 said:


> In the last couple of weeks, yes I have spoken here more than I have to her.
> 
> Last time we spoke, I told her it bothered me that's she's on her phone for an hour in bed every night, which kills any possibility of having sex. She said she will try and reduce it.
> 
> I'm not telling her what to do by the way. But she would have been on the couch for a couple of hours on her phone before going to bed, me also at times. But when it's bed time, my phone goes away.


This is absolutely troublesome situation.

When you will define marital boundaries and convey them to your wife, her face expressions and reactions will be very telling.

She might get upset and accuse you of being controlling.

Stay calm and do not tell her anything else.

Try to check her phone when she is sleeping (or) not guarding it.

I have tagged men who know about office affairs. They can give you some perspective.

*IF* this is infidelity situation, expect the unexpected. This is why it is important for you to prepare yourself for any eventuality.

Sooner, the better.


----------



## Longtime Hubby

Hire a detective. it won’t take long for the PI to get the answers. Maybe some photos, too.


----------



## Rebel81

Longtime Hubby said:


> Hire a detective. it won’t take long for the PI to get the answers. Maybe some photos, too.


I don't have that kind of money p.s. She is also a cop. 

Don't want to see how that would turn out!


----------



## Evinrude58

So 


Rebel81 said:


> Yes I do want to reestablish a sexual raltionship. Earlier she came to my office and gave me a kiss. Yesterday she touched my hand as we sat for dinner. My job is to rule out or eliminate thoughts that make me think she does these random acts of affection because she is feeling guilty.
> 
> We hugged today and she said it was great because I haven't hugged her in ages. True, but to be fair, I had my reasons.
> 
> Communication is not my strong point. In the past, I wouldn't speak my mind and would just be resentful. That has to change. To the last few posters, I don't have to become all ALPHA. But I do need to be strong, speak my mind at all times, and certainly enforce boundaries around late night texts, calls and overnights with colleagues.
> 
> As for her being all horned up after a bachelorette party, that bit still bothers me and I wish I could question her on it and gage ger reaction. Obviously she wouldn't tell the truth but at the same point I would know from her reaction what possibly happened, if anything.


sex and everything in was great at fitst. That wasn’t the image I got when I I said to I didn’t have sex for 3 days after your wedding night, and only then reluctantly. 
What happened after the two years? Was it a sudden stop or gradual dwindle down to nothing? When did the coworker enter the picture?

why are you now counting hand holds and hugs? You can’t passionately kiss your wife basically when we you want?
You have to ask her for sex? You don’t just start rubbing on her and taking her clothes off?

she’s on her phone in bed. You can’t start doing whatever you want to get her aroused? She always stops you or whatever?

Its really not all that complicated. Most men get all the sex the want from their wife because the wife wants it too! Women in their mid thirties and 40’s on average are ravenous.

If your wife isn’t having sex with you, and she claims she’s low drive…………. It’s ok to tell her you feel you’re incompatible and divorce her. You don’t need permission. You just have to make up your mind. 

It sounds to me like she has been having sex with another man. If that’s true, then who cares what her drive is? It’s super low abd she gives it to another dude????? No f’ing way I’d go for that.

But it also sounds like you are afraid to communicate your thoughts or needs.
I don’t believe in all this “wife provides for my needs” stuff you’ve been told. If a woman doesn’t want me, I don’t want it with her. There are plenty of wine that do want it with me. I’m not Quasimodo. I assume you’re not either. You shouldn’t have to beg, or accept duty sex. Your wife should want you.

if your wife doesn’t want you romantically, why allow her to continue being your wife? Why spend years of your life with an woman that’s not into you enough to have sex with you or even talk to you (sounds like she’s in her phone not interacting at all).
Nothing wrong with being on her phone. There is something wrong with you trying to get her aroused and her pushing you away every night.

There are so many women in the world. Why accept a truly crappy one????

You don’t need to be more alpha, you just need to start communicating with her. And if she shuts everything down that you try, be just as communicative when you explain why And when you are leaving her.

lastly, if she is going out drinking with coworkers and staying overnight with drunk men that you KNOW has the hots for her……
This tells me you are passive and will accept whatever she gives you. Nobody can help you with that. You have to change that passive attitude or every relationship you ever have will go the same way as this one. 

Honestly, the next time she pulls the hotel stunt, you could just go to the hotel abd catch her with her other man. That part is easy.

You choosing to leave a crappy marriage abd actually doing it—that’s the tough one.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> So
> 
> sex and everything in was great at fitst. That wasn’t the image I got when I I said to I didn’t have sex for 3 days after your wedding night, and only then reluctantly.
> What happened after the two years? Was it a sudden stop or gradual dwindle down to nothing? When did the coworker enter the picture?
> 
> why are you now counting hand holds and hugs? You can’t passionately kiss your wife basically when we you want?
> You have to ask her for sex? You don’t just start rubbing on her and taking her clothes off?
> 
> she’s on her phone in bed. You can’t start doing whatever you want to get her aroused? She always stops you or whatever?
> 
> Its really not all that complicated. Most men get all the sex the want from their wife because the wife wants it too! Women in their mid thirties and 40’s on average are ravenous.
> 
> If your wife isn’t having sex with you, and she claims she’s low drive…………. It’s ok to tell her you feel you’re incompatible and divorce her. You don’t need permission. You just have to make up your mind.
> 
> It sounds to me like she has been having sex with another man. If that’s true, then who cares what her drive is? It’s super low abd she gives it to another dude????? No f’ing way I’d go for that.
> 
> But it also sounds like you are afraid to communicate your thoughts or needs.
> I don’t believe in all this “wife provides for my needs” stuff you’ve been told. If a woman doesn’t want me, I don’t want it with her. There are plenty of wine that do want it with me. I’m not Quasimodo. I assume you’re not either. You shouldn’t have to beg, or accept duty sex. Your wife should want you.
> 
> if your wife doesn’t want you romantically, why allow her to continue being your wife? Why spend years of your life with an woman that’s not into you enough to have sex with you or even talk to you (sounds like she’s in her phone not interacting at all).
> Nothing wrong with being on her phone. There is something wrong with you trying to get her aroused and her pushing you away every night.
> 
> There are so many women in the world. Why accept a truly crappy one????
> 
> You don’t need to be more alpha, you just need to start communicating with her. And if she shuts everything down that you try, be just as communicative when you explain why And when you are leaving her.
> 
> lastly, if she is going out drinking with coworkers and staying overnight with drunk men that you KNOW has the hots for her……
> This tells me you are passive and will accept whatever she gives you. Nobody can help you with that. You have to change that passive attitude or every relationship you ever have will go the same way as this one.
> 
> Honestly, the next time she pulls the hotel stunt, you could just go to the hotel abd catch her with her other man. That part is easy.
> 
> You choosing to leave a crappy marriage abd actually doing it—that’s the tough one.


The Co worker was there from day one. She worked with him before I even knew she existed. She also spoke about him a lot at the start, but I wasn't too bothered, as I didn't know him and barely knew her. Yes it dwindled when she got pregnant, and never came back. But she made no effort to try and fix that. 

My wife is 38, as am I. She is not ravenous. Far from it with me. 

Yes it feels like if I suggest it, she always has an excuse. Bad timing, she is on her period, headache, not enough intimacy from me, tired, stressed. 

So I've stopped as much as possible iniatiating. That rejection is killing my soul!! Lietally!


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Wait, your wife is a cop? Her co-workers are cops then?

Me = slowly open the door and leave from this thre.....


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> The Co worker was there from day one. She worked with him before I even knew she existed. She also spoke about him a lot at the start, but I wasn't too bothered, as I didn't know him and barely knew her. Yes it dwindled when she got pregnant, and never came back. But she made no effort to try and fix that.
> 
> My wife is 38, as am I. She is not ravenous. Far from it with me.
> 
> Yes it feels like if I suggest it, she always has an excuse. Bad timing, she is on her period, headache, not enough intimacy from me, tired, stressed.
> 
> So I've stopped as much as possible iniatiating. That rejection is killing my soul!! Lietally!


so when are you going to have enough of it?
That’s the question. This isn’t all about sex, you’re noticing hand holds. She giving basically no affection. But who cares? You are miserable. Why stay miserable. Like I said, she’s the exception not the rule. Find one that goes down on you regularly because SHE wants it. They do exist. Believe me.


----------



## Rebel81

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Wait, your wife is a cop? Her co-workers are cops then?
> 
> Me = slowly open the door and leave from this thre.....


Yes she is. 

Why would you do that?


----------



## Longtime Hubby

Rebel81 said:


> I don't have that kind of money p.s. She is also a cop.
> 
> Don't want to see how that would turn out!


Definitely tosses a wrench into my idea. Sorry, bud, I’m not sure what‘s best. Good luck


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Rebel81 said:


> Yes she is.
> 
> Why would you do that?


Dear Bro,

From all the women out there, you chose to marry a cop? 

Why would you do this to yourself? Why?

My heart weeps for you.

Tough s***.


----------



## Rebel81

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Dear Bro,
> 
> From all the women out there, you chose to marry a cop?
> 
> Why would you do this to yourself? Why?
> 
> My heart weeps for you.
> 
> Tough s***.


I ask myself the same question 🤔


----------



## SunCMars

Your wife is conflicted, and you are over conflating what is not there, this love of hers.

Your wife is conflicted, she wants you and she wants _more_ the other man.

She knows that these other men (or, that particular OM) only want her hugs and her vagina, so she hangs on to you for that demonstrable security, to that other man/men for passion, love and sexual comfort.

She is a policewoman, she has seen it all, she knows the rules, yet bends them, selfishly.

She lives three lives, one, with you; one, while on the job; and one, while she is off the clock.

Her job provides plenty of stimulation, her time with you, the opposite, a time to unwind.

Her looking at her phone is to stay connected to what is going on with her job (her policing area, in her absence).

With her job comes that camaraderie, and those rampant sexual flings, that is _often_ expected of a police person.

She wants to be one of the crew, one of the guys.
So, she shares her time with you and them.

And, she has shared her body to maintain that camaraderie.
It sounds like only _one other man_ has entered her married flesh, but who is to know?

She does (in her selfish way) love you, but you remain _number two_ in her heart.

*Is this good enough for you?
If so, write no more, here, worry no more, there.*




_Gwendolyn-_ I am from the Dublin warren.


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> Your wife is conflicted, and you are over conflating what is not there, this love of hers.
> 
> Your wife is conflicted, she wants you and she wants _more_ the other man.
> 
> She knows that these other men (or, that particular OM) only want her hugs and her vagina, so she hangs on to you for that demonstrable security, to that other man/men for passion, love and sexual comfort.
> 
> She is a policewoman, she has seen it all, she knows the rules, yet bends them, selfishly.
> 
> She lives three lives, one, with you; one, while on the job; and one, while she is off the clock.
> 
> Her job provides plenty of stimulation, her time with you, the opposite, a time to unwind.
> 
> Her looking at her phone is to stay connected to what is going on with her job (her policing area, in her absence).
> 
> With her job comes that camaraderie, and those rampant sexual flings, that is _often_ expected of a police person.
> 
> She wants to be one of the crew, one of the guys.
> So, she shares her time with you and them.
> 
> And, she has shared her body to maintain that camaraderie.
> It sounds like only _one other man_ has entered her married flesh, but who is to know?
> 
> She does (in her selfish way) love you, but you remain _number two_ in her heart.
> 
> *Is this good enough for you?
> If so, write no more, here, worry no more, there.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Gwendolyn-_ I am from the Dublin warren.


Are you a cop? 

I'm sorry but I'm taken what you've said with a pinch of salt. Insane what you are stating here. 

Maybe she does like another guy more. As for sharing her body with other guys, I have no proof. 

What got me about your post is that she's on her phone as she needs to stay connected to her area. What?


----------



## hamadryad

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I stick by my observation that women will test you (a man) from time-to-time. This is her way to figure out how much of a man you are in life. If you do not get this, you do not get this. You are much like the men I described in my post.
> 
> What you see around you is very limited. People will not tell you everything. You will continue to observe and learn more about others as time passes by. Never assume that you have seen it all. This forum coupled with other platforms have given me ample perspective in addition to my own experiences and observations in life.


I've never been "tested" as you characterize, in my entire life...What you are saying is laughable...You don't know anything about me, so just leave it at that,,,,Ive led a complex and interesting life, full with the type of stuff most people wouldn't dream of...

What you are projecting is a man that is fearful, distrusting, weak and insecure....When you have reached the point of investigating, checking phone records, etc....the relationship is completely done....I wouldn't waste a single minute with that garbage..It doesnt do anything for you..


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> Yes I do want to reestablish a sexual raltionship. Earlier she came to my office and gave me a kiss. Yesterday she touched my hand as we sat for dinner. My job is to rule out or eliminate thoughts that make me think she does these random acts of affection because she is feeling guilty.
> 
> We hugged today and she said it was great because I haven't hugged her in ages. True, but to be fair, I had my reasons.


 Touching and hugging is a normal and healthy way for couples to connect, stop trying to read things into it such as guilt, and do more of it. I look for reasons to touch my wife, and she does the same with me. It is one of the advantages that you have with your wife over other men. Other men have to look for so called innocent reasons to touch your wife, when you can go at it openly trying to connect.

You want to have more sex, one of the things to do is hug and cuddle with your wife more.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> As for her being all horned up after a bachelorette party, that bit still bothers me and I wish I could question her on it and gage ger reaction. Obviously she wouldn't tell the truth but at the same point I would know from her reaction what possibly happened, if anything.


To be fair, a lot of people get a little boost of mojo from a lively social event.

Coming home from a party a little frisky is not proof positive of an affair or hook up. 

This is why date nights are often encouraged as get inn out and having some fun socially can help break the normal daily grind get the spirits up a bit. 

When you look at everything as a whole, you do have some issues that need to be addressed and you have cause for an index of suspicion as to if there is someone else catching her eye.

You have a number of red flags here that need to be invested, but coming a little frisky after a bachelorette party where there was likely a lot of filth talk and sexually charged dialogue and likely a lot of flirtation and banter going on, is not an actual smoking gun that she got down with another man. 

There may even be a higher likelihood that she did some titty rubbing and tongue tickling with other chicks.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> To be fair, a lot of people get a little boost of mojo from a lively social event.
> 
> Coming home from a party a little frisky is not proof positive of an affair or hook up.
> 
> This is why date nights are often encouraged as get inn out and having some fun socially can help break the normal daily grind get the spirits up a bit.
> 
> When you look at everything as a whole, you do have some issues that need to be addressed and you have cause for an index of suspicion as to if there is someone else catching her eye.
> 
> You have a number of red flags here that need to be invested, but coming a little frisky after a bachelorette party where there was likely a lot of filth talk and sexually charged dialogue and likely a lot of flirtation and banter going on, is not an actual smoking gun that she got down with another man.
> 
> There may even be a higher likelihood that she did some titty rubbing and tongue tickling with other chicks.


Thanks for your reply. 

The reason it made me suspicious, was that the last time she did this was 5 years. She had been away at a staff party out of town.after we got down and dirty back then, she revealed that she have her make colleague a ride 3 hours to the party and dropped him home. She had told me she was going alone.


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> Are you a cop?
> 
> I'm sorry but I'm taken what you've said with a pinch of salt. Insane what you are stating here.
> 
> Maybe she does like another guy more. As for sharing her body with other guys, I have no proof.
> 
> What got me about your post is that she's on her phone as she needs to stay connected to her area. What?


You have probable cause, no proof.

You smelled the smoke, yet have not witnessed the (out of sight) fire.

I agree, that others, and I, have exaggerated the known facts, twisting them to get your attention.

My bad, my apologies.

As you said, keep up the detective work on your own. 
The likely physical affair (if it is still happening) may be one of those, _on again, off again_ types.

She knows you are alert to her behavior.

You stated that you love her, but are no longer in love with her.

The acronym for that is ILYBANLILWY.
There can be other spellings.

Good luck, in this search for clarity and truth, and in your future life.

I will read and no longer post from my underground bunker.




_Gwendolyn-_

............................................................................

Side note: It is very easy to commingle the facts with other infidelity stories. TAM readers need be more discerning.


----------



## jsmart

Cops are one of the fields with rampant adultery. It is mostly male cops hooking up with women ( many married) that are basically free on demand call girls for them but are rarely cops. Now a woman cop is different. They’re more apt to be a fellow cop’s fwb. Like another said above. They share comraderie and their body with that 1 cop. They will both want to hide their affair from others because of work place fraternization rules. 

Your wife is used to being around guys that are trained to be assertive. Women love a strong guy who goes for what he wants. Her being a cop doesn’t change that desire for that type of guy, it actually makes it worse. A high adrenaline job tends to crank up the libido. If she’s only wanting sex from you once every 6 weeks, then she’s very likely still involved with an OM who is very likely a fellow cop that are getting together on the regular.


----------



## Rebel81

jsmart said:


> Cops are one of the fields with rampant adultery. It is mostly male cops hooking up with women ( many married) that are basically free on demand call girls for them but are rarely cops. Now a woman cop is different. They’re more apt to be a fellow cop’s fwb. Like another said above. They share comraderie and their body with that 1 cop. They will both want to hide their affair from others because of work place fraternization rules.
> 
> Your wife is used to being around guys that are trained to be assertive. Women love a strong guy who goes for what he wants. Her being a cop doesn’t change that desire for that type of guy, it actually makes it worse. A high adrenaline job tends to crank up the libido. If she’s only wanting sex from you once every 6 weeks, then she’s very likely still involved with an OM who is very likely a fellow cop that are getting together on the regular.


Do you mind me asking how you know this to be true? 

Fair enough, comradeship and all that. But have evidence of what you are saying?


----------



## oldshirt

Yeah you have more red flags here than downtown Beijing.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

hamadryad said:


> I've never been "tested" as you characterize, in my entire life...What you are saying is laughable...You don't know anything about me, so just leave it at that,,,,Ive led a complex and interesting life, full with the type of stuff most people wouldn't dream of...
> 
> What you are projecting is a man that is fearful, distrusting, weak and insecure....When you have reached the point of investigating, checking phone records, etc....the relationship is completely done....I wouldn't waste a single minute with that garbage..It doesnt do anything for you..


Are you married? This is not mentioned in your profile.

My perspective is for married men. Those who are dating will not get it.

Single men can afford to be carefree. Married men have much on the line on the other hand. Their assets and family unit.

It is much better for a married man to discuss and establish marital boundaries with his wife in view of developments which might affect his marriage. If she is tempted by her friends (or co-workers) to do something that makes you (the husband) uncomfortable then let her know that you do not find it acceptable.

Men who establish marital boundaries are not fearful, distrusting, weak and insecure. These men have self-respect and values in fact. These men are upfront and honest with their wives about what they find acceptable. These men just have it in them to protect themselves (and their marriage). Many women are doing fine with these men (my kind).

I love and cherish my wife, but I have discussed and defined some marital boundaries with her as well. But there are (will be) new matters to discuss from time-to-time as life goes on.

Women have their ways to test men and do this from time to time (not frequently but after a while; depends upon how much of a pushover the husband is). Perhaps you do not know how this happens because you are carefree and allow everything.

I am far removed from being fearful, distrusting, weak and insecure. Me and my wife have zero communication problems. WE have access to each other's gadgets (mutual consent), and have a good marriage. I chose my partner wisely. You could check my profile, right?

You misread my perspective. This is the problem of cyberspace. Statements can give wrong impression(s) at times.

I do not know you - fine. But you do not know me either.

You hang out with pushovers so your perception is skewed. I still respect your observations. All observations are valuable in their own right. I do not claim to have seen it all but I have seen much.

Let us agree to disagree.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> The reason it made me suspicious, was that the last time she did this was 5 years. She had been away at a staff party out of town.after we got down and dirty back then, she revealed that she have her make colleague a ride 3 hours to the party and dropped him home. She had told me she was going alone.


Does your wife still work with this person? It seems like she went from talking him up a lot to never mentioning him after you showed some suspicion after the Christmas party incident 5 years ago. I wonder if that made her be more careful and go more underground with it?

You've heard barely anything about him until she decides to pull an overnight to save a whole whopping 10 Euro, what a lame story, lol.

So this is her:
Talks up another man to you.
Fails to mention a 3 hour each way trip with him, including stopping by his house.
Drinks in the hotel room of a male colleague.
She books an overnight when she is only 25 minutes from home.
Multiple calls late at night to and from the man in question, while on the overnight.
She has deleted text messages from another man because she "doesn't want you to misinterpret them.", meaning they were inappropriate at the least.
She gets angry and makes you look bad when it is her behavior that looks bad.

This list is outrageous for a married and loyal wife, or husband for that matter. Yep, no video of her on her back with another man, but wow, talk about a lot of red flags. I'm sure if you brought this list to her she would find a way to turn you into the bad guy. Yet, as a cop, I would bet she would arrest someone with a fraction of this kind of evidence.

You aren't likely to get any better evidence than you have right here. You know damn well she isn't going to just come clean and say she did it, never gonna happen. That leaves you really two paths. Believe that none of these red flags actually indicate cheating and move on. Your wife is loyal and has never cheated on you. Or, assume she did cheat and act accordingly.

In my eye's she is already a cheater and liar even if she didn't sleep with the guy. You have solid evidence that she is lying through omission and hiding information from you by deleting texts. That alone is enough to put a marriage in jeopardy.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> Do you mind me asking how you know this to be true?
> 
> Fair enough, comradeship and all that. But have evidence of what you are saying?


Look up the term “Badge Bunnies” and it will be explained to you there.

Cops, firefighters, paramedics, military guys etc have their version of groupies like rock stars. 

A lot of the women that get into those fields started out as Badge Bunnies and wanted to be around them.

A female uniformed public safety worker that goes her whole life married to a normal work-a-day Joe that does NOT hook up with a fellow public safety official at some point is very rare. 

…. And yes, I have been in the uniformed public safety sector.


----------



## jsmart

Rebel81 said:


> Do you mind me asking how you know this to be true?
> 
> Fair enough, comradeship and all that. But have evidence of what you are saying?


I have quite a few friends who are cops. When they were single, they shared about their conquest. Sadly, in their cases, everyone of these women they told me about were married mothers who were NOT cops. I don’t have any anecdotal examples of women cops but know that men and women are very different when it comes to adultery. 

Women tend to want companionship that they feel they’re not getting at home and will offer up sex to get it. That you’re almost in a sexless marriage, leads me to believe she’s emotionally attached to someone else. It is very common for WWs to sexually cut off their husband so they can be faithful to their man. They will occasionally provide duty sex to appease their husband. I’ve read threads of WWs describing having sex with their husband as taking one for the team. With of course the OM being on her team.

Everything that you’ve shared reads like a WW who’s been in a on again , off again affair. They will go hot and heavy for a few months and then break up, to make up again in a month or 2 and be back at it.


----------



## Evinrude58

SunCMars said:


> Your wife is conflicted, and you are over conflating what is not there, this love of hers.
> 
> Your wife is conflicted, she wants you and she wants _more_ the other man.
> 
> She knows that these other men (or, that particular OM) only want her hugs and her vagina, so she hangs on to you for that demonstrable security, to that other man/men for passion, love and sexual comfort.
> 
> She is a policewoman, she has seen it all, she knows the rules, yet bends them, selfishly.
> 
> She lives three lives, one, with you; one, while on the job; and one, while she is off the clock.
> 
> Her job provides plenty of stimulation, her time with you, the opposite, a time to unwind.
> 
> Her looking at her phone is to stay connected to what is going on with her job (her policing area, in her absence).
> 
> With her job comes that camaraderie, and those rampant sexual flings, that is _often_ expected of a police person.
> 
> She wants to be one of the crew, one of the guys.
> So, she shares her time with you and them.
> 
> And, she has shared her body to maintain that camaraderie.
> It sounds like only _one other man_ has entered her married flesh, but who is to know?
> 
> She does (in her selfish way) love you, but you remain _number two_ in her heart.
> 
> *Is this good enough for you?
> If so, write no more, here, worry no more, there.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Gwendolyn-_ I am from the Dublin warren.


I thought this was a pretty reasonable conclusion to what MIGHT be going on with you and your wife. Nothing insane about it.

you seem oblivious to your wife being a cop and one would “assume” likes the drama of bring a cop. Not far fetched that she’d be in her phone wanting to keep up with the going’s on while she’s off and talk to her buds at work, one of which likes her enough to drive up 3 hours there and back to a get together that you’re uninvited to, and you didn’t mention if they shared a room. Maybe to scared yo ask although I suspect they did (of course)….

I’m sure she just stayed in her phone though, and it was strictly platonic, even though she constantly talked about him and then suddenly stopped when you expressed displeasure.

You’re just not seeing things as we do. We aren’t emotionally involved.


----------



## TRy

oldshirt said:


> Look up the term “Badge Bunnies” and it will be explained to you there.
> 
> Cops, firefighters, paramedics, military guys etc have their version of groupies like rock stars.
> 
> A lot of the women that get into those fields started out as Badge Bunnies and wanted to be around them.


 I looked the term Badge Bunnies up, and I am not convinced that it applies in this situation, or even that many female cops start out as badge buddies. You offer opinion here with little actual data to support it.



oldshirt said:


> A female uniformed public safety worker that goes her whole life married to a normal work-a-day Joe that does NOT hook up with a fellow public safety official at some point is very rare.


Again you offer opinion here with little actual data to support it. Your unsupported claim that female cops married to non-cops usually cheat, is not something that I believe without data.;


----------



## oldshirt

TRy said:


> I looked the term Badge Bunnies up, and I am not convinced that it applies in this situation, or even that many female cops start out as badge buddies. You offer opinion here with little actual data to support it.
> 
> 
> Again you offer opinion here with little actual data to support it. Your unsupported claim that female cops married to non-cops usually cheat, is not something that I believe without data.;


Would the number of married chicks knocking on my door in the middle of the night and the number of chicks knocking on my coworkers doors back when I was in uniform be considered data?


----------



## Evinrude58

I have heard of this phenomena and totally believe it. Women are hugely attracted to authority/power/ manly men……


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Does your wife still work with this person? It seems like she went from talking him up a lot to never mentioning him after you showed some suspicion after the Christmas party incident 5 years ago. I wonder if that made her be more careful and go more underground with it?
> 
> You've heard barely anything about him until she decides to pull an overnight to save a whole whopping 10 Euro, what a lame story, lol.
> 
> So this is her:
> Talks up another man to you.
> Fails to mention a 3 hour each way trip with him, including stopping by his house.
> Drinks in the hotel room of a male colleague.
> She books an overnight when she is only 25 minutes from home.
> Multiple calls late at night to and from the man in question, while on the overnight.
> She has deleted text messages from another man because she "doesn't want you to misinterpret them.", meaning they were inappropriate at the least.
> She gets angry and makes you look bad when it is her behavior that looks bad.
> 
> This list is outrageous for a married and loyal wife, or husband for that matter. Yep, no video of her on her back with another man, but wow, talk about a lot of red flags. I'm sure if you brought this list to her she would find a way to turn you into the bad guy. Yet, as a cop, I would bet she would arrest someone with a fraction of this kind of evidence.
> 
> You aren't likely to get any better evidence than you have right here. You know damn well she isn't going to just come clean and say she did it, never gonna happen. That leaves you really two paths. Believe that none of these red flags actually indicate cheating and move on. Your wife is loyal and has never cheated on you. Or, assume she did cheat and act accordingly.
> 
> In my eye's she is already a cheater and liar even if she didn't sleep with the guy. You have solid evidence that she is lying through omission and hiding information from you by deleting texts. That alone is enough to put a marriage in jeopardy.


On this overnight trip, which was a Xmas party, he was actually out on sick leave at the time. 

She didn't bring him up because I told her firmly to cease contact with him, that his behaviour was inappropriate. She said about the deleted messages at that time, that if I want, she can get him to screenshot them to show proof that there is nothing there. She also said he would think she is crazy or insane for asking him such a thing.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

@Rebel81

Cops can be close to each other, or might have each other's backs. Something like this because they might be operating like a team. This is tough line of work.

_"Communication is not my strong point. In the past, I wouldn't speak my mind and would just be resentful. That has to change. To the last few posters, I don't have to become all ALPHA. But I do need to be strong, speak my mind at all times, and certainly enforce boundaries around late night texts, calls and overnights with colleagues."_

This is fine.

Try it, and see how it goes.

Being communicative can be very helpful. It can help clear misunderstandings.

You should remind your wife that it is important for the husband and the wife to be HONEST with each other. That her profession is about INTEGRITY.

If you plan to investigate what is going on between your wife and her co-worker, do not do anything illegal. You are dealing with tough people in your case. Check your wife's phone however - this you can do as her husband.

You can also talk to another cop who works with your wife to learn more about her and this co-worker. This is not without risk either. This co-worker can alert your wife.

You can also follow your wife when she hangs out with her co-workers in a hotel or bar. Although, you are supposed to tell her that you do not find these outings acceptable. Plan your own outings with your wife instead.

Given your situation, you will have to do something to change your situation.

You do not have to pick a fight with your wife. Who knows how many men she have beaten in person... 😬😂

But you can define your marital boundaries and see if your wife will come to respect them. If not, then your guess is as good as mine.

You can then decide whether to continue in this marriage or not. This is your legal right.

I hope that you will be able to turn your situation around since kids are involved.

Best wishes.


----------



## TRy

oldshirt said:


> Would the number of married chicks knocking on my door in the middle of the night and the number of chicks knocking on my coworkers doors back when I was in uniform be considered data?


No, anecdotal stories are not considered data.

To be clear, you just told the OP that female cops are usually badge bunnies and that because of this female cops married to non-cops will usually cheat with other cops. End of story. Nothing more to see here. The OP did not need to tell us any more of his story for him know that his wife is going to cheat on him.


----------



## Sfort

jsmart said:


> Women tend to want companionship that they feel they’re not getting at home and will offer up sex to get it.


Sticky


----------



## jsmart

Evinrude58 said:


> I have heard of this phenomena and totally believe it. Women are hugely attracted to authority/power/ manly men……


See it over and over. Have you read about female corrections Officers that have relationships with inmates. Usually with the baddest type of inmate too. Most of these women are married or have live in boyfriends. They sexually submit themselves to a prisoner and even put their jobs at risk by sneaking in contraband for their OM. 

Every guy has heard a woman say how much they despise some douche guy to later find out she ended up in his bed. I’m sure OP has heard his wife say something in the same vein. Once a woman is under some “alpha” type’s spell, she can’t then later resubmit to a husband who allowed her to walk all over him. Which is why, she’s now supposedly “low” sex drive. Funny thing is that if OP were to change himself into a zero F’s given douche type, her sex drive would miraculously shoot up.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Don't know where you are from but I call BS on spouses not being invited to a Christmas Party, unless it was during day on company time. After hours or weekends, all the agencies I have been affiliated with, the spouses were invited. If they were not, I would like to believe at least half the officers would refuse to attend. I think she was feeding you a big line of ****.

Sounds to me like she wanted to go to the party with this guy alone. Answers the guilty look she had. She was guilty as hell.

Sounds to me she has been in an affair since about 5-6 yrs ago.

I personally know of 2 female officers blowing up their marriage by having sex with criminals in custody. I know of 4 troopers that had sex with women affiliated with their department. My cousin's wife, was screwing a partner in the dept.


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> On this overnight trip, which was a Xmas party, he was actually out on sick leave at the time.
> 
> She didn't bring him up because I told her firmly to cease contact with him, that his behaviour was inappropriate. She said about the deleted messages at that time, that if I want, she can get him to screenshot them to show proof that there is nothing there. She also said he would think she is crazy or insane for asking him such a thing.


Out on sick leave?

Reread your initial post, she secretly drove up with this guy, did she not?

Or, was this another Christmas party?


----------



## Beach123

Rebel81 said:


> "Simple answer: your wife was NEVER into you romantically. So what is your purpose in the relationship? Why does she stay with you"
> 
> Not into me because of that alone? We've had a 2 kids in the last few years, she had a few small health complications. So she hasn't exactly been in a position to have sex fully throughout the relationship.
> 
> I cannot answer your last question.


you need to dna test those kids! I’d bet money they aren’t yours.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Rebel81 said:


> On this overnight trip, which was a Xmas party, he was actually out on sick leave at the time.
> 
> She didn't bring him up because I told her firmly to cease contact with him, that his behaviour was inappropriate. She said about the deleted messages at that time, that if I want, she can get him to screenshot them to show proof that there is nothing there. She also said he would think she is crazy or insane for asking him such a thing.


So she cares more about his opinion than yours…

Dude, what the **** is wrong with you? 
Your wife is lying to you
Disrespecting you
Ignoring your stated boundaries
Not having sex with you

How is all of this not enough for you to start taking action here?

You sound like a man who has no power in your marriage whatsoever. 
Your wife doesn’t respect you, won’t **** you, is behaving extraordinarily inappropriately with another man, lying to you, disrespecting your boundaries, and probably cheating on you (even though you don’t have direct video evidence).
What the hell is it going to take for you to start acting like a man with integrity, dignity and self-respect here?


----------



## Beach123

You can’t make your wife suddenly have a healthy boundary that keeps the marriage safe and protected.

she done everything to be distrustful. She even lies to you. When there is nothing to hide = people hide nothing. She’s been cheating this whole time.

there’s no marriage when you can’t trust her and she lies. There’s nothing to work with. You are her afterthought because she is focused on him - even texting right up to the time she sleeps. That to ensure you don’t expect sex from her. She would be betraying her OM if she had regular sex with you.

you stated you had kids - but only mentioned a boy who looks like you (like that matters). What about the second child not mentioned? Odds are they are the OM kids. Dna test them. He can pay the child support when you grow that spine.

yes, my suggestion is divorce her. Don’t even have a talk about it - she won’t change (she holds ALL the power in the marriage).

then you’ll be free to find a mate that treats you with respect - that’s not her.


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> Out on sick leave?
> 
> Reread your initial post, she secretly drove up with this guy, did she not?
> 
> Or, was this another Christmas party?


Same Xmas party. And yes he hurt himself on duty and had been on sick leave for about 6 months at the time of the party.


----------



## Beach123

I don’t think you’re willing to change a thing. 
so good luck.


----------



## Rebel81

You tell me what I need to do. 

We spoke last night about our lack of sex. I got angry, she said she doesn't find herself attractive and she has always thought this way about herself. So even if that were remotely true, nothing is gonna change. 

We built a new house last year! 

I will not be getting a divorce. Price of property in my country is crazy high. I could not afford to pay for a second property. And I'm certainly not moving in with my folks. 

I booked a therapist just to gain some perspective.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> Don't know where you are from but I call BS on spouses not being invited to a Christmas Party, unless it was during day on company time. After hours or weekends, all the agencies I have been affiliated with, the spouses were invited. If they were not, I would like to believe at least half the officers would refuse to attend. I think she was feeding you a big line of ****.
> 
> Sounds to me like she wanted to go to the party with this guy alone. Answers the guilty look she had. She was guilty as hell.
> 
> Sounds to me she has been in an affair since about 5-6 yrs ago.
> 
> I personally know of 2 female officers blowing up their marriage by having sex with criminals in custody. I know of 4 troopers that had sex with women affiliated with their department. My cousin's wife, was screwing a partner in the dept.


Not sure about your country, nobody attends their spouses Xmas party in my country. My wife has never been to one of mine. And that's fine. 

Should I call BS on you?


----------



## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> You tell me what I need to do.
> 
> We spoke last night about our lack of sex. I got angry, she said she doesn't find herself attractive and she has always thought this way about herself. So even if that were remotely true, nothing is gonna change.
> 
> We built a new house last year!
> 
> I will not be getting a divorce. Price of property in my country is crazy high. I could not afford to pay for a second property. And I'm certainly not moving in with my folks.
> 
> I booked a therapist just to gain some perspective.


so sad to get into a situation that you are now built your own prison , so now after getting angry about it you look like 
a sex hungry animal, 

I have lived in Ireland so I know a bit about work parties not just Christmas parties , 
There are 3 types (1 no party, 2 party at the work place or local pub these tend to be a few drinks and go home , 3 go to a hotel or golf club in a big town even go over to the UK these are often what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas . 
Any scandalous activities that happen when one travels in a group are not to be discussed with other people AFTERWARDS. 
A friend works in the bank and they have many parties and workshops in a year , they even had parties in lockdown as they come under work , 
but no one is forced to go to Christmas parties , 

YOUR story reminds me of a guy that works with a gov job here , 
He is married and they have 2 kids that they want to send to uni,
he is liven in a sexless marriage it has been sexless with 5 years and not much before , 
he told his story to a woman on Facebook, she advised him to get to met some women through Facebook so he started to chat with friends , his work is based in a town over an hour from his home town he often takes the bus to work , as his wife keeps him on a tight rope , he spends very little at work, he has a super high pay job, 
HE IS CLASSED IN THE RICH group in this country but his wife has full control of the money and she has a very low pay income , at work he has to join a list of gov workers that have 3 cars between 12 people if he has to go on site ,
He got himself a sexfriend and used to use the gov car on work time to go see his woman. We found out because one day he was to be with us and did not turn up , and he wanted us to say he was with us , after that his sex friend dumped him .


----------



## Marc878

Did you ever read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’? 

You say you won’t divorce so you have two choices:
Remain where you’re at.
Change your behavior. *Start going your own way.*

No reason to address the potential infidelity because you aren’t going to take any action. That’s just a waste of your time. You seem to think if you catch her she’ll stop. That’s not necessarily the case. Plus it isn’t going to change who she is.

Only she could do that. Why would she? I’d bet she knows you’ll never take any action. She’s fine with the way things are. In essence you’ve taught her how she can treat you. *She’s learned well.*


It appears her phone is more important than you. Who and what’s on that phone. Work normally doesn’t demand that kind of attention. I bet if you asked to see her phone to see what’s so important. What would her answer be?

Your life will be what you make it. It’s a choice. Your choice.


----------



## Beach123

You could start by verifying what’s real. Learn the facts about if the kids are yours or someone else’s kids.


----------



## frenchpaddy

he was able go to the Christmas party but not well enough to go to work ,
tipple work affair or sex in the work place, but most only have sex a few times, they are more acts of convenience



If you’re like most men, you probably didn’t see your wife’s affair coming, not only because your wife may not have seemed all that interested in sex; but also because you have the belief that your wife is a “good girl.”* Unfortunately, up* *until very recently, men were regularly divorced by their wives without ever knowing about their wives’ affairs and infidelities.*

If she is like most women, prior to cheating on her husband, is always proclaimed to be “not the type” who would ever cheat. However, also like most women AFTER they’ve cheated, she is shocked and disturbed by your behavior; but at the same time she can’t stop cheating. I got this from a site you could take a look and see how it fits they talk about the stages women go through 

Women at Stage 1 feel as though something is missing in their lives. They have all the things that they wanted—a home, a family, a great husband—but they feel they should be happier. Over time, many women in this stage begin to lose interest in sex. It is not uncommon for them to spend a great deal of energy trying to avoid physical contact with their husbands because they fear it might lead to a sexual encounter. They frequently complain of physical ailments to avoid having sex and often try to avoid going to bed at the same time as their husbands. They view sex as a job, not unlike doing the dishes or going to the grocery store. 
. Some women in Stage 1 claim they feel violated when their husbands touch them. Their bodies freeze up and they feel tightness in their chest and/or a sick feeling in their stomach. The majority of women in Stage 1 feel as though there is something wrong with them, that they are in some way defective.

Women at Stage 2 experience reawakened desire stimulated by an encounter outside the marital relationship. Whether these encounters with a “new” man involves sex or remain platonic, women will typically give a tremendous amount of emotional significance to these encounters. Many women in this stage haven’t felt any sexual desire for a long time. Many experience tremendous guilt and regret, regardless of whether their new relationships are sexual, merely emotional, or both. Most begin to experience what could be termed an identity crisis—even those who try to put the experience behind them. Constant reminders are everywhere. They feel guilt when the topic of infidelity arises, whether in the media, in conversations with family and friends, or at home with their husbands. Women in this stage can no longer express their prior disdain for infidelity without feeling likea hypocrite. They feel as though they have lost a part of themselves. Reflecting society’s belief that women are either “good” or “bad,” women will question their “good girl” status and feel that they might not be deserving of their husbands. Many will try to overcome feelings of guilt by becoming more attentive toward and appreciative of their husbands. However, over time many women will move from appreciation to justification. In order to justify their continued desire for other men, women will begin to attribute these desires to needs that are not being met in their marriage, or to their husband’s past behavior. Many women will become negative and sarcastic when speaking of their husbands and their marriages and it is not uncommon for an extramarital affair to follow.


----------



## Kaliber

Rebel81 said:


> You tell me what I need to do.
> 
> We spoke last night about our lack of sex. I got angry, she said she doesn't find herself attractive and she has always thought this way about herself. So even if that were remotely true, nothing is gonna change.
> 
> We built a new house last year!
> 
> I will not be getting a divorce. Price of property in my country is crazy high. I could not afford to pay for a second property. And I'm certainly not moving in with my folks.
> 
> I booked a therapist just to gain some perspective.


@Rebel81 I will advice you this:
Don't confront her until you have sold proof, currently you don't have much, so eyes open and mouth shut!
And be proactive!
Start focusing on yourself, gym (4 -5 days a week), lift weights, proper nutrition, get the physic, the V shape, and start going out with friends, start changing your wardrobe, always having nice cloths on and looking your best with nice colognes on, every day even at home, take more leadership role, become more Alpha.
Just by focusing on your self, dressing nice, going to the gym, your attitude will change, your demeanour will change, she will notice and start responding (READ Athol Kay's MMSLP book link listed bellow),

While working on yourself read these books ASAP (They are really good, you will have AHA moments, and you will enjoy reading them):

The Married Man Sex Life Primer (MMSLP) - By Athol Kay <-This book will be an eye opener for you, it will help you understand why your not getting any sex, implement Athol's MAP plan in the book
The Rational Male - By Rollo Tomassi <- You will start to understand female behaviour and what they are attracted to!
No More Mr. Nice Guy: A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex and Life - By Dr. Robert Glover <- There is a FREE PDF version of this available online, but worth buying
The Unplugged Alpha: The No Bullsh*t Guide To Winning With Women & Life - By Richard Cooper <- Geared for single men, but has A LOT of value about red flags in marriages!
Don't ever let her know your reading these books!
There is a reason for the popular saying: *Alpha F***s Beta bucks!* (google it)
And please keep us updated about your progress, and how your wife will respond, this will help many people who are in your shoes!


----------



## frenchpaddy

Kaliber said:


> @Rebel81 I will advice you this:
> Don't confront her until you have sold proof, currently you don't have much, so eyes open and mouth shut!
> And be proactive!
> Start focusing on yourself, gym (4 -5 days a week), lift weights, proper nutrition, get the physic, the V shape, and start going out with friends, start changing your wardrobe, always having nice cloths on and looking your best with nice colognes on, every day even at home, take more leadership role, become more Alpha.
> Just by focusing on your self, dressing nice, going to the gym, your attitude will change, your demeanour will change, she will notice and start responding (READ Athol Kay's MMSLP book link listed bellow),
> 
> While working on yourself read these books ASAP (They are really good, you will have AHA moments, and you will enjoy reading them):
> 
> The Married Man Sex Life Primer (MMSLP) - By Athol Kay <-This book will be an eye opener for you, it will help you understand why your not getting any sex, implement Athol's MAP plan in the book
> The Rational Male - By Rollo Tomassi <- You will start to understand female behaviour and what they are attracted to!
> No More Mr. Nice Guy: A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex and Life - By Dr. Robert Glover <- There is a FREE PDF version of this available online, but worth buying
> The Unplugged Alpha: The No Bullsh*t Guide To Winning With Women & Life - By Richard Cooper <- Geared for single men, but has A LOT of value about red flags in marriages!
> Don't ever let her know your reading these books!
> There is a reason for the popular saying: *Alpha F***s Beta bucks!* (google it)
> And please keep us updated about your progress, and how your wife will respond, this will help many people who are in your shoes!


As I have not read any of the books I can't say if they are the right way to go BUT GIVEN the OP is trapped into a new house and kids he has no other way out of this he has built a jail for himself , 
mothers out saying make the best out of it so it is time to do some real work to do and hope his wife responds 
out of seeing him in a new way or just fear of he going getting sex somewhere


----------



## snowbum

Divinely Favored said:


> Don't know where you are from but I call BS on spouses not being invited to a Christmas Party, unless it was during day on company time. After hours or weekends, all the agencies I have been affiliated with, the spouses were invited. If they were not, I would like to believe at least half the officers would refuse to attend. I think she was feeding you a big line of ****.
> 
> Sounds to me like she wanted to go to the party with this guy alone. Answers the guilty look she had. She was guilty as hell.
> 
> Sounds to me she has been in an affair since about 5-6 yrs ago.
> 
> I personally know of 2 female officers blowing up their marriage by having sex with criminals in custody. I know of 4 troopers that had sex with women affiliated with their department. My cousin's wife, was screwing a partner in the dept.


Big companies don’t invite spouses


----------



## frenchpaddy

snowbum said:


> Big companies don’t invite spouses
> [/QUOTE
> 
> For me it is logic not to have wife's to it if Big company as it could turn into a danger spot with jealous sometimes rightfully but sometimes not


----------



## Divinely Favored

snowbum said:


> Big companies don’t invite spouses


Overnight or weekend out of town, why would one attend without their spouse?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Not sure about your country, nobody attends their spouses Xmas party in my country. My wife has never been to one of mine. And that's fine.
> 
> Should I call BS on you?


I live in US. Are yours over night or on the weekend? The LEO agencies I have worked with did not do all night parties and bar spouses from attending. 

I could see a spouse go alone to theirs if their spouse kept doing the same. My job got more time from me than family did, I'll be damned if I am gonna give them family time also.


----------



## Livvie

OP just said he's not getting a divorce, so.... he's staying with her.


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> You tell me what I need to do.
> 
> We spoke last night about our lack of sex. I got angry, she said she doesn't find herself attractive and she has always thought this way about herself. So even if that were remotely true, nothing is gonna change.
> 
> We built a new house last year!
> 
> I will not be getting a divorce. Price of property in my country is crazy high. I could not afford to pay for a second property. And I'm certainly not moving in with my folks.
> 
> I booked a therapist just to gain some perspective.


OK, that is your decision.

It is your life, so do what is best for you, not for internet strangers.

Life is hard, and some spouses do make it more difficult.
We can only hope for the best, here.

Congratulations on the new home!

Good luck going forward, just keep your eyes open and your whits about you.



_KB-_


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Rebel81 said:


> You tell me what I need to do.
> 
> We spoke last night about our lack of sex. I got angry, she said she doesn't find herself attractive and she has always thought this way about herself. So even if that were remotely true, nothing is gonna change.
> 
> We built a new house last year!
> 
> I will not be getting a divorce. Price of property in my country is crazy high. I could not afford to pay for a second property. And I'm certainly not moving in with my folks.
> 
> I booked a therapist just to gain some perspective.


Your wife have body-image issues? If true then this is a problem in itself.

Did you ask your wife why she feels like that about herself?

Your anger is justified in view of so much that is going in your life but you cannot nag your way to intimacy, bro.

You need to talk to your wife about her body-image issues and try to convince her that you find her attractive. You married her in fact. If your love and commitment is not good enough for her to feel aroused then suggest Sex Therapy [for couples] to her.

You admitted that you have communication problems. You need to correct this problem on your end. You should discuss this problem with your therapist.

Some will suggest ALPHA tropes to address your marital problems but there is no guarantee that these ACTS can fix your marriage. This stuff sells and subscribers buy it blindly. The coaches are earning money.

Forum member (Bookeeper29) is a fitness buff. He is a martial artist. He is opening his own fitness club. But this man is not getting much sex from his wife either.

I checked his thread and asked him some questions to help him get to the bottom of his situation and it came down to this:









Hello all


We are both in our 40's and have two kids in middle school. We've been married for 13 years. I don't think she wants anymore children or at least that's what she says. We both had other relationships prior to this one and We were intimate before marriage. I have talked with her about this very...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Mismatched job schedules. The husband and the wife do not have much quality time with each other.

I am no fitness buff myself. I am able to get my wife in the mood. I am communicative: I compliment her and make her feel good.

Your marital problems are following:

1. Wife have body-image problems.
2. You have communication problems.
3. Suspected infidelity.

You can work out and keep yourself in good shape. But this is for YOU, for you to feel better about yourself and regain your confidence. But you will have to do more to address your marital problems.

You need to work on your communication skills, talk to your wife about her body-image problems and push for sexual therapy. On the other hand, establish marital boundaries and enforce them. Be persistent in your approach.

Give it some time. Your situation will not change overnight.

You are dealing with cops and it might not be easy for you to shock your wife. You understand your vulnerabilities better than any stranger on the web.

This should not stop you from adopting other measures to move things forward for yourself.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> You tell me what I need to do.
> 
> We spoke last night about our lack of sex. I got angry, she said she doesn't find herself attractive and she has always thought this way about herself. So even if that were remotely true, nothing is gonna change.
> 
> We built a new house last year!
> 
> I will not be getting a divorce. Price of property in my country is crazy high. I could not afford to pay for a second property. And I'm certainly not moving in with my folks.
> 
> I booked a therapist just to gain some perspective.


Just curious. Would solid evidence of her cheating change your mind about divorce? Sounds like you are going to stay no matter what. You feel you have no choice except to stay married.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Divinely Favored said:


> Overnight or weekend out of town, why would one attend without their spouse?


 I know the bank in Ireland do this 
seems to me a bad idea.
I have a friend that works at a head office she is often our and parties in far away big cities seems a bad idea and her husband is not happy about it but if there is any type of fooling around I would not like to be the guy fooling around as her husband is the type he would hit first and ask questions after


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Just curious. Would solid evidence of her cheating change your mind about divorce? Sounds like you are going to stay no matter what. You feel you have no choice except to stay married.


Yes it would absolutely change my mind.


----------



## Evinrude58

Reb,
She drove 3 hours to an overnight party withMan that you know wants to boink her. She brought him back home.
She deleted the texts between them and keeps coming up with total bs excuses that wouldn’t fool a small child. 

Honestly, I don’t even think there was a party. I think she drove up and has an overnight holiday with this guy.

seeing how your wife treats you, whether she’s cheating or not, there is zero reason to tolerate the intolerable. Thing is, she clearly IS cheating. You have all the evidence you need.

she cares so little, she doesn’t care one way or another.

Have you asked her if they shared a hotel together that night? Have you asked her if she banged him?

Alk I’ve seen is that you brought up the obvious and SHE got mad. Dude, you’re the one whose wife is driving to overnight party use with a man that she has admitted has romantic interest. Why in the heck do you care about HER anger? 
This marriage you have is a soul sucking quagmire. See an attorney and grab a rope and pull yourself out.


----------



## Rebel81

Listen, the deleted texts were from 5 years ago. Not sure what texts or any have been between since then. 

No I haven't brought it up. If I'm wrong, which by the way is a possibility, I'll look stupid and untrustworthy. 

He never admitted to having romantic interest in her, just told me I was a very lucky guy. They work together as cops, the whole. I got your back thing.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Rebel81 said:


> Listen, the deleted texts were from 5 years ago. Not sure what texts or any have been between since then.
> 
> No I haven't brought it up. If I'm wrong, which by the way is a possibility, I'll look stupid and untrustworthy.
> 
> He never admitted to having romantic interest in her, just told me I was a very lucky guy. They work together as cops, the whole. I got your back thing.


Why are you so passive and timid?

Even if you set the likely betrayal aside…
At a minimum, your wife pissed on your boundaries, broke trust, lied yo you, doesn’t desire you, won’t **** you, doesn’t respect you.
What are you going to DO about that?


----------



## Sfort

It sounds like we've covered all of the ground to be covered in this thread. What else do we have to offer OP?


----------



## Rebel81

DudeInProgress said:


> Why are you so passive and timid?
> 
> Even if you set the likely betrayal aside…
> At a minimum, your wife pissed on your boundaries, broke trust, lied yo you, doesn’t desire you, won’t **** you, doesn’t respect you.
> What are you going to DO about that?


I'm going to read no more Mr Nice guy, go to thr gym, not take **** tests from her anymore and do all that for me, and me only.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> I'm going to read no more Mr Nice guy, go to thr gym, not take **** tests from her anymore and do all that for me, and me only.


 when people come to these type forums with posts saying they cheated or their partner they mostly get the same line of responses 
cheaters get insulted all the time even if they are trying to hard to make it better.
husbands of women that cheat often get told it was their doing for not been romantic and for been a wimp 
the wife of a cheater gets told she is a doormat


----------



## Evinrude58

I suggest doing what you say, and also redoubling efforts to get a better job or start a new career.
Why?
So you can your frigid cheater eventually.
Also, getting your mind on working toward a big goal will distract you from her and help you detach, give you some confidence in yourself, position yourself to be self sufficient and happy, and basically totally alter your perspective.

I can’t see anything positive your wife brings to the relationship. You’re not at fault for her cheating and nonexistent boundaries, but if you keep doing the same things, you’ll get the same results. Wishing you luck.


----------



## Marc878

Rebel81 said:


> I'm going to read no more Mr Nice guy, go to thr gym, not take **** tests from her anymore and do all that for me, and me only.


It only works if you apply it.
Good luck


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Infidelity in law enforcement is quite rampant.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Tested_by_stress said:


> Infidelity in law enforcement is quite rampant.


It may be more accurate to say infidelity is rampant.


----------



## SteelGray

Rebel81 said:


> Hi Guys and gals. I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed. One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this. She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now! My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair. Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning. My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call. My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right. I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


 She’s cheating dude. My ex-wife was the same way and I put up with the same type of crap… even more. I saw a therapist who told me that I’m just fantasizing and if I didn’t catch them in the act, then I was fantasizing. I dropped him. She spent the night out because of a work function. The overnight “wasn’t planned.” The next day she went straight to work. When she came home, she was wearing a men’s Oxford shirt. What would you think. I put up with crap for years for different reasons. At first it was because I was incredibly in love with her. Then for the longest, it was the “children.” Eventually I now believe I just became scared and insecure. I lost my self esteem. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s creepy or wrong to check on her. Not with all of those red flags. By checking on her, you are no different than a man with the financial means to pay a P.I. Lastly, if you’re going to stay - at least get something out of it. If you’re the type that’s into it. Let her come home and tell you about it and then bang the other guy’s passion right out of her. If that’s not your scene, then RUN don’t walk to a DIVORCE attorney. Stop wasting your life.


Rebel81 said:


> Hi Guys and gals. I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed. One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this. She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now! My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair. Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning. My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call. My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right. I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


 She’s cheating dude. My ex-wife was the same way and I put up with the same type of crap… even more. I saw a therapist who told me that I’m just fantasizing and if I didn’t catch them in the act, then I was fantasizing. I dropped him. She spent the night out because of a work function. The overnight “wasn’t planned.” The next day she went straight to work. When she came home, she was wearing a men’s Oxford shirt. What would you think. I put up with crap for years for different reasons. At first it was because I was incredibly in love with her. Then for the longest, it was the “children.” Eventually I now believe I just became scared and insecure. I lost my self esteem. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s creepy or wrong to check on her. Not with all of those red flags. By checking on her, you are no different than a man with the financial means to pay a P.I. Lastly, if you’re going to stay - at least get something out of it. If you’re the type that’s into it. Let her come home and tell you about it and then bang the other guy’s passion right out of her. If that’s not your scene, then RUN don’t walk to a DIVORCE attorney. Stop wasting your life.


----------



## Rebel81

SteelGray said:


> She’s cheating dude. My ex-wife was the same way and I put up with the same type of crap… even more. I saw a therapist who told me that I’m just fantasizing and if I didn’t catch them in the act, then I was fantasizing. I dropped him. She spent the night out because of a work function. The overnight “wasn’t planned.” The next day she went straight to work. When she came home, she was wearing a men’s Oxford shirt. What would you think. I put up with crap for years for different reasons. At first it was because I was incredibly in love with her. Then for the longest, it was the “children.” Eventually I now believe I just became scared and insecure. I lost my self esteem. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s creepy or wrong to check on her. Not with all of those red flags. By checking on her, you are no different than a man with the financial means to pay a P.I. Lastly, if you’re going to stay - at least get something out of it. If you’re the type that’s into it. Let her come home and tell you about it and then bang the other guy’s passion right out of her. If that’s not your scene, then RUN don’t walk to a DIVORCE attorney. Stop wasting your life. She’s cheating dude. My ex-wife was the same way and I put up with the same type of crap… even more. I saw a therapist who told me that I’m just fantasizing and if I didn’t catch them in the act, then I was fantasizing. I dropped him. She spent the night out because of a work function. The overnight “wasn’t planned.” The next day she went straight to work. When she came home, she was wearing a men’s Oxford shirt. What would you think. I put up with crap for years for different reasons. At first it was because I was incredibly in love with her. Then for the longest, it was the “children.” Eventually I now believe I just became scared and insecure. I lost my self esteem. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s creepy or wrong to check on her. Not with all of those red flags. By checking on her, you are no different than a man with the financial means to pay a P.I. Lastly, if you’re going to stay - at least get something out of it. If you’re the type that’s into it. Let her come home and tell you about it and then bang the other guy’s passion right out of her. If that’s not your scene, then RUN don’t walk to a DIVORCE attorney. Stop wasting your life.


I just not 100%, and I don't want to look stupid if it's not true. 

I've very little to go on really. Most of the things I mentioned happened 4 plus years ago. 

The recent missed calls at 12am, I think there were 6 but not 100%. When I went in to her phone, there was a dialled put call at 12am for 5 seconds. 2 minutes before that there was missed call. It also showed the number 6 as if there were 6 other missed calls but can't be sure. Not familiar with her phone.


----------



## Evinrude58

If she wasn’t cheating, what is good about this marriage that makes you want to stay in it?
A person’s behavior toward to that’s lasted for years—— it’s not suddenly going to change for the better.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> If she wasn’t cheating, what is good about this marriage that makes you want to stay in it?
> A person’s behavior toward to that’s lasted for years—— it’s not suddenly going to change for the better.


She is the mother of my child the woman I chose to marry. We don't have huge arguments by the day. Day to day we get on well, she will randomly hug me or kiss me she always tucks into me at night. She feels unattractive and is a bit overweight, something she hates about herself. 

She has promised to work on thr sex element, and I honestly think I should not iniatiate to see if its something she will do. She did 2 nights ago but no doubt felt she had to after we discussed it.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Rebel81 said:


> She is the mother of my child the woman I chose to marry. We don't have huge arguments by the day. Day to day we get on well, she will randomly hug me or kiss me she always tucks into me at night. She feels unattractive and is a bit overweight, something she hates about herself.
> 
> She has promised to work on thr sex element, and I honestly think I should not iniatiate to see if its something she will do. She did 2 nights ago but no doubt felt she had to after we discussed it.


Please take off the blinders. You are in for a huge letdown in the near future.

Have you considered she may have a secondary cellular phone? You need to go deep into detective mode. Search your house, clone her phone. You have no basis to think she is anything but a cheater right now from what you have posted.

I had been married 29 years when almost seven years ago I caught my wife. How, I “listened” to the seasoned veterans on here. I search my house from top to bottom and in the guest room found lingerie I had never seen before in a laundry baskets in the closet of a guest bedroom. Hmmm.

Secondary advice..”Eyes open, mouth shut”. I said nothing, observed, and when her company had an open house, she informed me I was not invited, hmmmm. Showed up anyway…busted.

I post this to let you know you need to expect the unexpected in situations such as you now find yourself in.


----------



## Rebel81

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Please take off the blinders. You are in for a huge letdown in the near future.


Can people not work on it? 

I'm. Not that naive that I think it will magically change. But can we not at least try? I'm definetly gonna stop being Mr Nice guy. I went to her with my concerns, she needs to address them. 

I'll do my thing and not rely on her for validation anymore.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Speaking of Mr. Nice Guy. I would encourage you to read the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” as well as Larry Winget’s “Grow A Pair”….these will help you immensely.


----------



## Rebel81

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Speaking of Mr. Nice Guy. I would encourage you to read the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” as well as Larry Winget’s “Grow A Pair”….these will help you immensely.


Thank you. I bought it about 4 years ago, but never finished it. Found it in a drawer recently and am starting it again.


----------



## jlg07

Divinely Favored said:


> Don't know where you are from but I call BS on spouses not being invited to a Christmas Party, unless it was during day on company time. After hours or weekends, all the agencies I have been affiliated with, the spouses were invited. If they were not, I would like to believe at least half the officers would refuse to attend. I think she was feeding you a big line of ****.
> 
> Sounds to me like she wanted to go to the party with this guy alone. Answers the guilty look she had. She was guilty as hell.
> 
> Sounds to me she has been in an affair since about 5-6 yrs ago.
> 
> I personally know of 2 female officers blowing up their marriage by having sex with criminals in custody. I know of 4 troopers that had sex with women affiliated with their department. My cousin's wife, was screwing a partner in the dept.


My old company never allowed spouses -- the party was usually in NYC and they said the cost was too prohibitive.
Honestly I think it's because the heads of the company wanted time to party away from their spouses.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel,
People can work on things. But you can’t fix love. 
you know the following:

Your wife has been messaging another man that you know is interested in her, secretly.

she has been to work parties, drove there to and from the party overnight (at best a date, at worst she partied and spent the night with him which in my opinion is a no brainer.)

she has another overnight work party 25 min away that involved drinking and her “friend” was likely there/— you even offered to pick her up….. no thx from her, I’ll stay overnight.

Your wife doesn’t really want to have sex with you.

So I’ll just ask you: Do you feel loved?

My suggestion is to determine if you’re really happy with the woman and give yourself a timeline so that if you’re not, you don’t stay forever and miss out on being with someone that truly does love you. Aren’t you worth loving?


----------



## jsmart

@Rebel81 I’m confused, is she still talking to this guy or was that in the past? If this is still going on then she’s still in the affair. If was in the past, then the affair is over but she’s still pining for him, which is why she doesn’t want to have sex with you.

You can’t work on the marriage while an affair is on going. I recommend that you work on yourself. Like Ev said, start working out HARD, go full bore on your career, and just work on being the best version of yourself. Not for her but for you. Let your kids see a man who’s going places.


----------



## Divinely Favored

jlg07 said:


> My old company never allowed spouses -- the party was usually in NYC and they said the cost was too prohibitive.
> Honestly I think it's because the heads of the company wanted time to party away from their spouses.


That is where I tell them, let me help with the cost, I will not be attending. I always choose wife/kids over people I spend 12 hrs a day with anyway. Family gets ~3 then bedtime.


----------



## SteelGray

Sorry for the duplications. I kept getting an error message, so I kept trying to send it.
Look - I’m not telling you to confront her, but you need to start checking her out. Stop trusting her so much and doubting yourself so much. If you’re wrong then great, but I don’t think you’re completely wrong. There’s too many square pegs that you’re trying to force into round holes. Check up on her without her knowing. By the way, why don’t you have access to your wife’s cell account? Aren’t you both on the same plan?


----------



## SteelGray

Regarding what some others are saying - it’s true. You need to focus on yourself.


----------



## Rebel81

jsmart said:


> @Rebel81 I’m confused, is she still talking to this guy or was that in the past? If this is still going on then she’s still in the affair. If was in the past, then the affair is over but she’s still pining for him, which is why she doesn’t want to have sex with you.
> 
> You can’t work on the marriage while an affair is on going. I recommend that you work on yourself. Like Ev said, start working out HARD, go full bore on your career, and just work on being the best version of yourself. Not for her but for you. Let your kids see a man who’s going places.


She spoke about him alot let's say 6 years ago. That's when this whole Xmas party thing happened. 

She was a work event few weeks ago, and that's when I seen these missed calls from him on her phone and then a 5 second outgoing call from her. By the way, the hotel where this event was held is the same town they both work in. Perhaps he was going too straight from work and called her? Maybe it's innocent, maybe it's not. 

Yes I'll have to go undercover. I really need to get at her phone to see if there are any text messages between them. 

Yes I just cleared my garage, and have put together equipment I had years ago. Time to get sfit and strong. I have pretty decent career but hard to make any major progress as Im responsible for thr kids 4 days out of 8, due to her work hours. But I'll try, I can guarantee that.


----------



## Rebel81

SteelGray said:


> Sorry for the duplications. I kept getting an error message, so I kept trying to send it.
> Look - I’m not telling you to confront her, but you need to start checking her out. Stop trusting her so much and doubting yourself so much. If you’re wrong then great, but I don’t think you’re completely wrong. There’s too many square pegs that you’re trying to force into round holes. Check up on her without her knowing. By the way, why don’t you have access to your wife’s cell account? Aren’t you both on the same plan?


Its pretty normal in my country to have your own plan.


----------



## jsmart

Rebel81 said:


> She spoke about him alot let's say 6 years ago. That's when this whole Xmas party thing happened.
> 
> She was a work event few weeks ago, and that's when I seen these missed calls from him on her phone and then a 5 second outgoing call from her. By the way, the hotel where this event was held is the same town they both work in. Perhaps he was going too straight from work and called her? Maybe it's innocent, maybe it's not.
> 
> Yes I'll have to go undercover. I really need to get at her phone to see if there are any text messages between them.
> 
> Yes I just cleared my garage, and have put together equipment I had years ago. Time to get sfit and strong. I have pretty decent career but hard to make any major progress as Im responsible for thr kids 4 days out of 8, due to her work hours. But I'll try, I can guarantee that.


So it’s sounds like they’re still on and off again. It is very common for affairs to go dormant for a season to then be rekindled. It almost sounds like a classic FWB situation. 

I’m glad to hear you’re moving to improve yourself. I think you need to start being more selfish with pushing to meet your goals. Let her scramble to meet the needs of watching the kids. When you put your life on hold to meet the needs of your spouses schedule and the kids needs, you would think that your wife would be loving and appreciative but instead she sees your compliance as weakness. Your lack of career advancement as a sign that she’s above you. So start to put Rebel first because she has been putting you behind her “friend” for a very long time.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Rebel,
> People can work on things. But you can’t fix love.
> you know the following:
> 
> Your wife has been messaging another man that you know is interested in her, secretly.
> 
> she has been to work parties, drove there to and from the party overnight (at best a date, at worst she partied and spent the night with him which in my opinion is a no brainer.)
> 
> she has another overnight work party 25 min away that involved drinking and her “friend” was likely there/— you even offered to pick her up….. no thx from her, I’ll stay overnight.
> 
> Your wife doesn’t really want to have sex with you.
> 
> So I’ll just ask you: Do you feel loved?
> 
> My suggestion is to determine if you’re really happy with the woman and give yourself a timeline so that if you’re not, you don’t stay forever and miss out on being with someone that truly does love you. Aren’t you worth loving?


No I don't, but maybe it's just me and my insecurities. 

NMMNG is my new project.


----------



## Evinrude58

He keeps the kids 4/8 days. That’s why she stays….. shares the bills, he’s easy to live with. There’s no romantic love for him whatsoever and he sees that every day.
The kisses he gets and hugs…. She’d give any friend. Nobody else wants her full time…
I’d leave her….. Heck, you’d get 50/50 custody or no?

OP, correct me if I’m wrong, but have you ever told her no more overnight parties without you?

If not, why not just lay low and catch her at the next overnight party by showing up at her hotel room?


----------



## jlg07

Divinely Favored said:


> That is where I tell them, let me help with the cost, I will not be attending. I always choose wife/kids over people I spend 12 hrs a day with anyway. Family gets ~3 then bedtime.


I went for a few years -- only way I'd get something "free" from them -- drinks/food.
BUT, it started bugging my wife so I stopped right away.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Rebel81 said:


> Its pretty normal in my country to have your own plan.


That doesn’t mean it has to be normal in your marriage. 
There seems to be a clear power imbalance in your marriage, and it’s not in your favor.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> He keeps the kids 4/8 days. That’s why she stays….. shares the bills, he’s easy to live with. There’s no romantic love for him whatsoever and he sees that every day.
> The kisses he gets and hugs…. She’d give any friend. Nobody else wants her full time…
> I’d leave her….. Heck, you’d get 50/50 custody or no?
> 
> OP, correct me if I’m wrong, but have you ever told her no more overnight parties without you?
> 
> If not, why not just lay low and catch her at the next overnight party by showing up at her hotel room?


No I haven't told her anything. 

Being totally honest, I don't like being around cops. They all try and outdo the other in terms of humour, level of intelligence. It's painful to watch.


----------



## Evinrude58

Are you going to crash the hotel party next time?


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Are you going to crash the hotel party next time?


If its on in my city, yes.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> If its on in my city, yes.


What if it’s 25 min away in her city?


----------



## Rebel81

Lol yes. 

Sounds ridiculous when you say 25 minutes


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> Lol yes.
> 
> Sounds ridiculous when you say 25 minutes


Yes, it does. That’s why for the life of me, I don’t know why you didn’t go catch her the last time.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Yes, it does. That’s why for the life of me, I don’t know why you didn’t go catch her the last time.


Watching my kids. Simple as that.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Rebel81 said:


> Watching my kids. Simple as that.


Dude, it seems highly likely, based on everything you’ve already described, and your general demeanor, - that you’re not going to do a damn thing.
I don’t understand it, but I just don’t see you actually taking any real action to take control of the situation and lead it (either a better marriage where you are respected and desired, or to finally exit this bad one). I suspect you’ll just poke around the edges, make further excuses, and continue living with this crappy situation.

I truly and genuinely hope you prove me wrong.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> Watching my kids. Simple as that.


Something this important, I’d have a relative or friend watch them and get some abswers.
Or I’d take them with me, have them wait in the car while I ran up to the hotel room, get my answers without drama, go back home.

Kids weren’t stopping you. You are stoping you. Get to the bottom of why that is and you’ll solve all the problems you’re experiencing.

you do realize you are at home babysitting while she’s driving her affair partner to an all night party, staying in a hotel with him, and driving him back home. That would eat on me.


----------



## hamadryad

Rebel81 said:


> Watching my kids. Simple as that.



If you are worried about breaking all this up and exposing her, for the sake of the kids and their stability and well being, fine....stay and take care of the klds...Make sure everything is as great and as smooth as possible during their formative years, and yes, despite what a lot of people say, it's not the worst thing you can do...and would probably be better for them than blowing your life up and getting divorced, disrupting their lives, splitting time,etc...Most kids only care about themselves...That's not a bad thing, that's just what kids do...They don't really understand all the dynamics involved ( i am making the assumption that your kids are young)

You won't be the first person to do it, and wont be the last, either...


But then don't whine about her and the situation, just do what's best for you and the kids...Period...Detach yourself, both romantically and emotionally, basically become glorified roommates, and know you have a goal as a father to those kids and do what you have to do...Then take this time to do everything you need to do to better yourself as a man, and when the time is right, then you move on with your life...

No one sets the rules here....People give advice that best suits their situation, or maybe they are looking at this from the perspective of being burned themselves, that's why a lot of people say go full nuclear...And that may very well be the best advice for you, but at the end of the day, its all in your hands..

No one is going to shame you for doing what you think is right, or they shouldn't anyway...Everyone's situation differs ....My only advice is as I said, detach yourself...As hard as that may seem to do, realize that if all of your suspicions are reality, then she is no longer who you think you met...Then the only thing you really need to be concerned about is you and the kids..


----------



## Rebel81

hamadryad said:


> If you are worried about breaking all this up and exposing her, for the sake of the kids and their stability and well being, fine....stay and take care of the klds...Make sure everything is as great and as smooth as possible during their formative years, and yes, despite what a lot of people say, it's not the worst thing you can do...and would probably be better for them than blowing your life up and getting divorced, disrupting their lives, splitting time,etc...Most kids only care about themselves...That's not a bad thing, that's just what kids do...They don't really understand all the dynamics involved ( i am making the assumption that your kids are young)
> 
> You won't be the first person to do it, and wont be the last, either...
> 
> 
> But then don't whine about her and the situation, just do what's best for you and the kids...Period...Detach yourself, both romantically and emotionally, basically become glorified roommates, and know you have a goal as a father to those kids and do what you have to do...Then take this time to do everything you need to do to better yourself as a man, and when the time is right, then you move on with your life...
> 
> No one sets the rules here....People give advice that best suits their situation, or maybe they are looking at this from the perspective of being burned themselves, that's why a lot of people say go full nuclear...And that may very well be the best advice for you, but at the end of the day, its all in your hands..
> 
> No one is going to shame you for doing what you think is right, or they shouldn't anyway...Everyone's situation differs ....My only advice is as I said, detach yourself...As hard as that may seem to do, realize that if all of your suspicions are reality, then she is no longer who you think you met...Then the only thing you really need to be concerned about is you and the kids..


Thanks for your 2 cents man. 

Started my first work out last night, gonna keep doing that. And get out more with friends, join new things and not be around her. 

She doesn't crave me. Fine with me. 

It was all summed up earlier when I was preparing dinner. She was getting her own lunch ready to take to work with her. She asked you used the saran wrap last and I said I did. It was left as it should be for the next person. She said she would do it a different way and proceeded to show me. Sorry, **** that!! 

Am I wrong to think that she treats me as a child? She can be very condescending.


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> She spoke about him alot let's say 6 years ago. That's when this whole Xmas party thing happened.
> 
> She was a work event few weeks ago, and that's when I seen these missed calls from him on her phone and then a 5 second outgoing call from her. By the way, the hotel where this event was held is the same town they both work in. Perhaps he was going too straight from work and called her? Maybe it's innocent, maybe it's not.
> 
> Yes I'll have to go undercover. I really need to get at her phone to see if there are any text messages between them.
> 
> Yes I just cleared my garage, and have put together equipment I had years ago. Time to get sfit and strong. I have pretty decent career but hard to make any major progress as Im responsible for thr kids 4 days out of 8, due to her work hours. But I'll try, I can guarantee that.


Where does she make (receive) most of her calls from?
Naturally, a place you have access to.

If is one or two places, buy one or two VAR's (voice activated recorders) and put them in place to find out what she is saying.
They are small and inexpensive.
Sony makes a number of them.

If she makes calls from work, or from her white Toyota Avensis, a Garda vehicle, you are, thus, stymied.

Tell no one you are doing this, and keep any improper conversations to yourself.
You only want to find out if she is above-board, and truly sex-averse.

It sounds like she makes calls late at night, can we assume that she is a work, or on the road, patrolling?

She likely has a partner with her when she is in a Garda vehicle, so that would limit her freedom to talk freely.

Yes, get at her phone and see if more info can be gleaned from it.

She is no fool, do not alert her to your concerns of some infidelity, on her part.


_AD-_


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> It was all summed up earlier when I was preparing dinner. She was getting her own lunch ready to take to work with her. She asked you used the saran wrap last and I said I did. It was left as it should be for the next person. She said she would do it a different way and proceeded to show me. Sorry, **** that!!
> 
> Am I wrong to think that she treats me as a child? _She can be very condescending._


I know this woman.
These woman.
Many do.

It becomes that nurturing on steroids.
They lose patience with any they view as slow witted, not obedient, enough.

Arrogance, is that loss of decorum, and civility.

All, who are not parents, siblings, or cousins, of sorts, are their lessers.
Side lovers eventually get this treatment, too.

A career police person, or military member show these foul airs, too often when they speak.


----------



## SunCMars

Resentment, slowly feeds on the condescending behavior of others.

At some point, the poisoning is complete, and no amount of love, or respect, will act the antidote.

Others, it seems, create their own enemies, some made quick, some painfully slow in forming.

That _"Familiarity breeds contempt"._


----------



## jsmart

Rebel81 said:


> Started my first work out last night, gonna keep doing that. And get out more with friends, join new things and not be around her.
> 
> She doesn't crave me. Fine with me.
> 
> It was all summed up earlier when I was preparing dinner. She was getting her own lunch ready to take to work with her. She asked you used the saran wrap last and I said I did. It was left as it should be for the next person. She said she would do it a different way and proceeded to show me. Sorry, **** that!!
> 
> Am I wrong to think that she treats me as a child? She can be very condescending.


It is VERY common for WWs to pick fights over very petty things to avoid intimacy. 

I’m happy to hear you’re working on yourself. like I said in an post, you need to selfishly pursue your interest. Do not put her work schedule or especially her hanging out schedule above meeting your goals. Workout, reconnect with friends, and pursue goals to get your career going. Get your look on point ( haircut, beard, hygiene, and clothing). Liking what you see will help boost your confidence that has obviously taken a massive hit over years of in your face betrayal.

As your T levels go up from the workouts, and your confidence goes up because you know you’re looking good, and your social circle expands to include you in fun activities, your wife will eventually take notice. At first she won’t care. She will be relieved that you’re busy doing you thing, so she can spend time with officer friendly but when she senses that you no longer need her, she will put on the charm. All of a sudden her sex drive will come back. That when you have to decide if she’s worth the effort. After so many years of disrespect, I’m sure you will find that there are better woman out there for you.


----------



## Rebel81

I


SunCMars said:


> I know this woman.
> These woman.
> Many do.
> 
> It becomes that nurturing on steroids.
> They lose patience with any they view as slow witted, not obedient, enough.
> 
> Arrogance, is that loss of decorum, and civility.
> 
> All, who are not parents, siblings, or cousins, of sorts, are their lessers.
> Side lovers eventually get this treatment, too.
> 
> A career police person, or military member show these foul airs, too often when they speak.


I'd live to hear a woman's view on this? Am I crazy to think that her behaviour is condescending?


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> I
> 
> 
> I'd live to hear a woman's view on this? Am I crazy to think that her behaviour is condescending?


I’m not a woman, but I don’t think her behavior is so condescending. I think you are hypersensitive because your relationship has crumbled to nothing.

that’s why we are suggesting that you detach, better yourself, and move on. If (big if) your wife senses this and struggles to retrieve the relationship with you, you can decide if she’s worth it as SunCMars told you. I think you’re going to find, as I suspect he does, that it isn’t worth it.

There is an ass for every seat. There’s a woman that will love every man. If your wife doesn’t love you and desire you, why not find one that does?


----------



## Livvie

Rebel81 said:


> I
> 
> 
> I'd live to hear a woman's view on this? Am I crazy to think that her behaviour is condescending?


It's condescending. 

If someone was on me for how I put the saran wrap back, uummm no. 

And I wouldn't point things like that out to a man I respected or didn't want to piss off.


----------



## Diceplayer

Rebel81 said:


> She asked you used the saran wrap last and I said I did. It was left as it should be for the next person. She said she would do it a different way and proceeded to show me. Sorry, **** that!!


Yeah, my wife tried this crap on me exactly one time. I was making breakfast for us when she started telling me that I was opening the sausage package wrong. I simply laid it on the counter, poured myself a bowl of cereal and sat down eat. I never said a word. She never did that again.


----------



## SunCMars

Having an occasionally cranky spouse is one thing, having a habitual nit-picker at your side, eventually wears _thin_.
_Thin_, as does skin, continually scratched raw.

Living with such a barbed squawker, makes you reflex-cringe, just, as their mouth moves, knowing what will follow!!

Oh my!

Waiting for the verbal-blow!



@Rebel81, this is likely an exaggeration, a failing of my own.


_TT-_


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> I
> 
> 
> I'd live to hear a woman's view on this? Am I crazy to think that her behaviour is condescending?


It's not really condescension per se, it's resentment. 

WWs tend to become very resentful and bitter towards the BH because they see the BH as what is standing between them and their true love. 

It's very common that they will become very critical of everything the BH does (or does not do) and they can treat the BH with anger and criticism all the time. 

Being hypercritical and seeming to be angry at the H all the time are bona fide red flags of an affair.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> It's not really condescension per se, it's resentment.
> 
> WWs tend to become very resentful and bitter towards the BH because they see the BH as what is standing between them and their true love.
> 
> It's very common that they will become very critical of everything the BH does (or does not do) and they can treat the BH with anger and criticism all the time.
> 
> Being hypercritical and seeming to be angry at the H all the time are bona fide red flags of an affair.


I got Into her phone and there is absolutely no signs of anything going on with this colleague. Even on the same day as those missed calls, there are pretty innocent message s between them.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> I got Into her phone and there is absolutely no signs of anything going on with this colleague. Even on the same day as those missed calls, there are pretty innocent message s between them.


Have you obtained a report from the service provider?

Calls and texts can be deleted off of the phone. If one knows that their phone is being snooped, they can even opt to leave a couple "innocent" messages in place to appear,, well,,,,innocent. 

There are people who hear got into their partner's phone and found nothing. But when they obtained a report from the carrier there were actually hundreds of txts and calls etc.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> Have you obtained a report from the service provider?
> 
> Calls and texts can be deleted off of the phone. If one knows that their phone is being snooped, they can even opt to leave a couple "innocent" messages in place to appear,, well,,,,innocent.
> 
> There are people who hear got into their partner's phone and found nothing. But when they obtained a report from the carrier there were actually hundreds of txts and calls etc.


Fair point. I'm not that naive. 

But there is also the possibility that nothing is going on.


----------



## frenchpaddy

Rebel81 said:


> Fair point. I'm not that naive.
> 
> But there is also the possibility that nothing is going on.


it is the danger of putting your life on a forum , you give a bunch of strangers bits of your life and ask them to build a story 
if we get it wrong who is going to have to live with the outcome


----------



## TexasMom1216

frenchpaddy said:


> it is the danger of putting your life on a forum , you give a bunch of strangers bits of your life and ask them to build a story
> if we get it wrong who is going to have to live with the outcome


Yes. Be very careful what you say here.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Rebel81 said:


> Fair point. I'm not that naive.
> 
> But there is also the possibility that nothing is going on.


your wife is a cop, she knows how to cover her tracks. Granted, that doesn’t mean she is a cheater, but you took the time to find this site and post on it. What does your gut tell you about everything going in your marriage? I don’t fault you for hoping for the best, but what is your gut telling you?


----------



## Rebel81

Captain Obvious said:


> your wife is a cop, she knows how to cover her tracks. Granted, that doesn’t mean she is a cheater, but you took the time to find this site and post on it. What does your gut tell you about everything going in your marriage? I don’t fault you for hoping for the best, but what is your gut telling you?


Don't get me wrong folks, I'm thankful for everyone's contribution. Helps to get a different view point. 

My gut tells me she is not bothered with our marriage, doesn't care for sex, is plodding along, and doesn't realise that I'm gonna do a 180!!


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> My gut tells me she is not bothered with our marriage, doesn't care for sex, is plodding along, and doesn't realise that I'm gonna do a 180!!


Reading forums some might get the impression that cheating is the main reason people get divorced. It’s not. Things like neglect, lack of sex, not appreciating your spouse, not proactively doing things to make your spouse’s life happier, and not putting forth the effort to be nice to their spouse are the causes of many failed marriages.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> My gut tells me she is not bothered with our marriage, doesn't care for sex, is plodding along, and doesn't realise that I'm gonna do a 180!!


If she is fine with the status quo of the marriage, and you are not; then it is kind of on you to change it. 

Unless she is somehow using you, manipulating you, cheating on you, or somehow actively mistreating you, I don't see how the 180 is going to help you unless you are in fact wanting to split up and move on. 

If you are wanting to have a more connected and close and intimate relationship with her and she is not mistreating or manipulating you, the 180 is about the last thing you want to be doing.


----------



## Diana7

TRy said:


> Reading forums some might get the impression that cheating is the main reason people get divorced. It’s not. Things like neglect, lack of sex, not appreciating your spouse, not proactively doing things to make your spouse’s life happier, and not putting forth the effort to be nice to their spouse are the causes of many failed marriages.


Almost every divorce I know of, of which there are many, it was almost always cheating that ended it.


----------



## TRy

Diana7 said:


> Almost every divorce I know of, of which there are many, it was almost always cheating that ended it.


You need to hang with a different group, as that is not the statistical norm. Studies put infidelity as the reason for a divorce at between 20 and 40 percent.

Although infidelity may be one of the top reasons for divorce, it still makes up less than half of all divorces. Additionally, other reasons are what often leads to infidelity in the first place, with infidelity being an exit affair.

Here is a study that puts it at 28%: Divorce Statistics and Facts in 2021


----------



## frenchpaddy

Diana7 said:


> Almost every divorce I know of, of which there are many, it was almost always cheating that ended it.


I wish you would start a new topic to debate that one , 
I don't wish to take this topic off subject, and the subject here is 3 people 2 in a relationship and 2 people in for what we know is a work relationship ,

I think for anyone that knows police officers the moment they put on that uniform they step into a roll 
For women police officers they step into a male roll , so the person she is at work is very different from the person she is at home 

the 2 people in the relationship as far as we know have tired to talk but what we don't know is what is been said and what does the other think is been said , 
to talk to a partner that you know for a number of years you have to stay on subject , 



Rebel81 said:


> Don't get me wrong folks, I'm thankful for everyone's contribution. Helps to get a different view point.
> 
> My gut tells me she is not bothered with our marriage, doesn't care for sex, is plodding along, and doesn't realise that I'm gonna do a 180!!


I would say there are times 180 is important , but 180 is a two sided knife , and should be only used if you are willing to do the 180 and walk away and keep going 

it is not a game tool as 180 does have ever lasting impact ,the type that can say to a partner that is going through some things in her or his own life that they don't full know they are not hurting the other ,

I don't know why she is turned off sex , there are so many reasons why from it is not good not doing anything for her 
to out side life impacting on her , 

before you do 180 why not take her out somewhere that you can talk to her in a different setting and ask her what her needs are and not talk about your needs this is another type of 180 that will open a very different type of interaction


----------



## Diana7

TRy said:


> You need to hang with a different group, as that is not the statistical norm. Studies put infidelity as the reason for a divorce at between 20 and 40 percent.
> 
> Although infidelity may be one of the top reasons for divorce, it still makes up less than half of all divorces. Additionally, other reasons are what often leads to infidelity in the first place, with infidelity being an exit affair.
> 
> Here is a study that puts it at 28%: Divorce Statistics and Facts in 2021


This is divorces I have known from many groups. Friends, close and wider family, past colleagues, acquaintances, many people my children or husband know or work with etc. About 95% due to cheating. Odd that we go so much against the studies.


----------



## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> This is divorces I have known from many groups. Friends, close and wider family, past colleagues, acquaintances, many people my children or husband know or work with etc. About 95% due to cheating. Odd that we go so much against the studies.


Yes it is odd, _maybe you just know a bunch of cheaters_.

My own divorce was not because of cheating, and my friends who are divorced were not divorced becuse of cheating, nor some family and friends. Anger management (lack of), abuse, and alcoholism were the main causes.


----------



## Beach123

Rebel81 said:


> I
> 
> 
> I'd live to hear a woman's view on this? Am I crazy to think that her behaviour is condescending?


It’s very condescending! And tell her to knock it off!!!

Let me guess, you just silently took her crap about the Saran Wrap, right?


----------



## BoSlander

BigDaddyNY said:


> She is horny when she comes home and wants you to get her AP's sloppy seconds. She must get off on it.


They call it “double dipping,” and it’s VERY common among swingers.


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel, you need to do some legwork my friend. Firstly, shut up and listen. Make her feel you’re going back to normal. Hide a VAR in her car and listen. If she goes out of her way not to speak in the car, that means she suspects she’s being monitored. Check for a burner/prepaid phone. Check the bank account for cash withdrawals at beginning/end or mid month, these animals pay their bills with cash (I caught my wife paying a monthly plan on a phone she kept at work by calling the school’s mail room and telling them I had a phone bill for Mrs. X and they told me “she wants it delivered directly to her”). If nothing comes up, place one of those luggage geo tracking devices inside the car. And, of course, all of this has to be done concomitantly with computer browsing history/phone monitoring and rumors from employees. I got a lot of information by befriending a maintenance guy at the school. I knew he liked soccer (so did I) so I started frequenting the field he was playing in and eventually got a lot of information from him. He is the one that told me that my wife, who is a school psychologist, was being visited “too often” by a male administrative staff. He’s also the one that told me to contact the mailroom with the letter/bill excuse because “I get letters for other people all the time and they always tell me who to send them to.” DO NOT expect your significant other to open up about her affair. She’s probably too high on dopamine for her to open up. Sadly, the highlight of her day is seeing him, not you.

Another check I heard of in another forum is to become intimate with your wife’s period. Know which days she’s bleeding and the ones she’s not. If you know she’s 13 days from a first day and claims to be bleeding… well, she’s probably worried about you noticing the other dude’s sperm. And YES, she will be doing way more sexual stuff with him than with you (if he wants anal, she WILL give him anal, the dopamine high is such that they totally succumb to this OM). Also, pay attention to her changing undies immediately upon entering the house. If she’s turning the washer on to wash 2 articles of clothing past 6PM, eyes open. She may very well be trying to get rid of any residual sperm.

I apologize if I sound like a total idïot when saying this but these are the small things that get people’s hair in the back of their head to stand up: hearing their wife/husband totally enjoying the sex act, moaning, seeing someone else’s semen in their wives undies, smelling someone else’s perfume in your husband’s pubic hair area.

If all of this fails to provide you with the necessary information for you to make an informed decision, start tracking HIM. Women tend to be extremely good at hiding things, but the OM will not be expecting any monitoring.


----------



## So far so good

Most men are like hunters. We need duct tape. We go to Walmart. We buy duct tape. Done.

what is your objective? Your goal?

You are not in love with your wife and want to divorce? Work towards that goal. Whether she is cheating or not doesn’t matter. The best advice for this goal is to talk to a D lawyer to know what D would look like and what can you do to make it more favorable to you.

Your goal is to find out if she cheated 5 years ago? That’s a tough one. Evidences are probably long gone. To achieve that goal, you would need to trick her into a confession.

Your goal is to find out whether she is cheating now? Like others have said, try a VAR in her car, look at email accounts, phone (phone book entries like "Betty", "Sarah"), Facebook etc…

Nake your goal clear, make a plan and follow it. Be ready to D. Divorce is not the worst outcome, the worst outcome is you living with a cheater.


----------



## BoSlander

So far so good said:


> Most men are like hunters. We need duct tape. We go to Walmart. We buy duct tape. Done.
> 
> what is your objective? Your goal?
> 
> You are not in love with your wife and want to divorce? Work towards that goal. Whether she is cheating or not doesn’t matter. The best advice for this goal is to talk to a D lawyer to know what D would look like and what can you do to make it more favorable to you.
> 
> Your goal is to find out if she cheated 5 years ago? That’s a tough one. Evidences are probably long gone. To achieve that goal, you would need to trick her into a confession.
> 
> Your goal is to find out whether she is cheating now? Like others have said, try a VAR in her car, look at email accounts, phone (phone book entries like "Betty", "Sarah"), Facebook etc…
> 
> Nake your goal clear, make a plan and follow it. Be ready to D. Divorce is not the worst outcome, the worst outcome is you living with a cheater.


In my case, my soon to be ex closed down her Facebook account out of the blue, stopped wearing her wedding ring when I wasn’t around and was always unexpectedly unavailable around lunchtime while at work.

The cheating is going to be different for every spouse. Look for patterns. Put yourself in her shoes: if you had to cheat, how would you be able to carry out the cheating? Where? When? And then connect the dots.

Start with the “low-hanging fruit”: VAR and keylog. First goal is to find out if there’s another person. If there isn’t, you’re good. If there is, then you have to catch them in the act, and I do advise you get a PI for that. Doing the monitoring yourself is going to break you from the inside out.


----------



## truststone

Rebel81 said:


> Hi Guys and gals.
> 
> I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed.
> 
> One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this.
> 
> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!
> 
> My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair.
> 
> Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning.
> 
> My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call.
> 
> My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.
> 
> I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


because u did nothing she now has lost respect for you and hence has continued what more do u need ?? sorry for you but unless you grow some balls and respect yourself dont expect her tooo


----------



## truststone

Rebel81 said:


> Maybe not with the AP at the bachelorette party. It was a 2 hour drive away. But you know what, who knows at this stage!


you do thats the point !!!! And being idle only causes her to loose more respect for you !!


----------



## truststone

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> Why doesn't she hide her phone, like most cheaters do?
> 
> Why didn't she delete the call log showing the calls with this guy?
> 
> By the way, she works in front line services and works nights etc. You can take a guess at what she does. A private investigator won't find out much here, trust me on that.
> 
> Our sex life is pretty inactive and has been for about 6 years. Let's say sex on average is once every 6 weeks. Probably rejected 3 or 4 times in between that 6 week period. She told me recently that she has accepted that she has a low sex drive and that that's ok with her. She never compliments me. I raised this with her before and she said she finds me attractive, and pays me compliments by doing things for me. Like ensuring I have a dinner, the house is clean, making me a coffee etc.
> 
> One thing she doesn't do is leave the house during the evening to possibly meet this or any other guy. Which means she would only do it when working.
> 
> I only found these calls a weeks ago so it's only playing in my mind since then. What tipped me off or should I say why my gut started screaming at me to check her phone, was when I came home from work the day after she returned from this work do, was that she even looked guilty of something. She was sitting there almost looking into space and for once, wasn't on her phone.


maybe she has a burner?? why dod you think she looked guilty ?? i bet your riight so dont ignore it


----------



## BoSlander

truststone said:


> maybe she has a burner?? why dod you think she looked guilty ?? i bet your riight so dont ignore it


I second that. Check for small bank account withdrawals, that’ll tell you whether she’s paying something she does not want you to know about or not.

ALL websites giving cheating feedback now advise the use of a burner/prepaid phone/card.


----------



## Beach123

What’s the update after doing the 180?
Have you dna tested the kids yet?


----------



## Rebel81

Beach123 said:


> What’s the update after doing the 180?
> Have you dna tested the kids yet?


I didn't do the 180.

We had a number of social events recently and got on very well. Certainly have had more sex than we had in recent times. 

She also isn't doing anything that would cause suspicion. 

On the sex side, I've decided to not initiate for the time being. She knows how important is to me for her to initiate. I'm not hopeful if I'm honest but anyways. 

I've continued with going to the gym which is working wonders for me and my confidence. Wife must notice as she has been complimenting me on my looks etc. 

She is also getting a lot more pissed as I'm calling her out when she **** tests.


----------



## Evinrude58




----------



## happyhusband0005

Nevermind


----------



## DudeInProgress

Rebel81 said:


> I didn't do the 180.
> 
> We had a number of social events recently and got on very well. Certainly have had more sex than we had in recent times.
> 
> She also isn't doing anything that would cause suspicion.
> 
> On the sex side, I've decided to not initiate for the time being. She knows how important is to me for her to initiate. I'm not hopeful if I'm honest but anyways.
> 
> I've continued with going to the gym which is working wonders for me and my confidence. Wife must notice as she has been complimenting me on my looks etc.
> 
> She is also getting a lot more pissed as I'm calling her out when she **** tests.


So basically you’ve done nothing, other than get yourself to the gym (which is critically important and valuable on multiple levels, so good job on that) and occasionally arguing with her when she pushes you.

You’ve stopped initiating, you set no boundaries or expectations with her, and you haven’t gone on the offensive about her inappropriate behavior/relationship with her colleague or her lack of respect for you.

As far as your relationship goes, you haven’t done ****.
And that’s what you’re likely going to get as a result. Half measures get you nothing, and often times less than nothing because you’re not even congruent with the positive things that you’re doing.

Also, you don’t “call her out“ when she **** tests you. That’s a fail.
You don’t get angry or argue with her or call her out. You just ignore, dismiss or redirect with a smile on your face and a pat on the butt to show her that you’re not phased. You pass **** tests by being emotionally non-reactive, in a pleasant/charming manner. Not by “calling her out.”


----------



## Openminded

So basically she threw some sex at you and now all’s well in Never Never Land. Keep an eye out for the work colleague. He’s not going anywhere.


----------



## Rebel81

Openminded said:


> So basically she threw some sex at you and now all’s well in Never Never Land. Keep an eye out for the work colleague. He’s not going anywhere.


Absolutely not. 

If there was an improvement in our relationship, coming from her end, do you want me to knock that? 

Also, she doesn't know that I know about this most recent text conversation with this same colleague. So as it stands, if anything we're going on, I'm sitting and watching it unfold.


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel81 said:


> I got Into her phone and there is absolutely no signs of anything going on with this colleague. Even on the same day as those missed calls, there are pretty innocent message s between them.


If you don't mind me asking... what phone did you tap and what extracting program did you use?


----------



## Rebel81

JBLH said:


> If you don't mind me asking... what phone did you tap and what extracting program did you use?


LOL I think you know the answer to that.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> If there was an improvement in our relationship, coming from her end, do you want me to knock that?
> 
> Also, she doesn't know that I know about this most recent text conversation with this same colleague. So as it stands, if anything we're going on, I'm sitting and watching it unfold.


There are some realities to your situation:
1) Only if you catch her cheating or she confesses would you know for sure that she cheated.
2) If all you have are things that are suspicious, then you may never know one way or the other if she cheated.
3) There is no way to prove that she did not cheat.
4) You do not need to prove cheating to have a reason to work on making your marriage better.
5) There will always be people on the forums that will tell you some version of “man up”.
6) There comes a point where until proven otherwise you need to go on with your life and marriage. Stay vigilant, but move on. This is not rug sweeping.


----------



## *Deidre*

Rebel81 said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> If there was an improvement in our relationship, coming from her end, do you want me to knock that?
> 
> Also, she doesn't know that I know about this most recent text conversation with this same colleague. So as it stands, if anything we're going on, I'm sitting and watching it unfold.


Why doesn't she know that you know about the recent text conversation? You can't truly move forward if you're afraid of your wife's reactions to you calling her out on HER bad behaviors. But, it's your life, and in the end...you're the one who has to live with your decisions.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> Also, she doesn't know that I know about this most recent text conversation with this same colleague.


I could not find where you discussed this conversation. What was said?,


----------



## Openminded

Rebel81 said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> If there was an improvement in our relationship, coming from her end, do you want me to knock that?
> 
> Also, she doesn't know that I know about this most recent text conversation with this same colleague. So as it stands, if anything we're going on, I'm sitting and watching it unfold.


Did you ask yourself why there was a sudden improvement?


----------



## syhoybenden

Rebel81 said:


> she doesn't know that I know about this most recent text conversation with this same colleague. So as it stands, ....., I'm sitting and watching it unfold.


Full speed ahead.
Run silent. Run deep.
Keep your wits about you.
And keep your eyes and ears open at all times.

My best guess is that she's just covering her ass for now but in the near future you are sadly going to find her reverting to her old hidden ways.

You try a VAR yet?


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> LOL I think you know the answer to that.


In other words, you didn’t do a thing and let your wife continue cheating on you.


----------



## Rebel81

Openminded said:


> Did you ask yourself why there was a sudden improvement?


Yes of course. 

We spoke about many things, including sex and communication. 

My communication skills are not great but I've tried to be more vocal. I know I'm coming across as a clown the more I read my responses. 

I have zero evidence that she cheated. Zero. As mentioned before, she is a cop that works with mostly men, in a job that is essentially a brotherhood. They all text each other and call each other. It's not just this one guy. 

She stays late at work sonetimes, I can only assume for work purposes. She will tell me what happened, and next thing I will see a news report about the very same thing. Again, the nature of her job requires to work late when there are emergencies. I can leave my job at 5 and return to it the next day.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> Fair point. I'm not that naive.
> 
> But there is also the possibility that nothing is going on.


Yes you are that naive.


----------



## Rebel81

ABHale said:


> Yes you are that naive.


Care to elaborate?


----------



## Evinrude58

If you believe your wife may not be cheating at all after driving to late night work events with a guy she texts and talks to at all hours of the night, takes him home after overnight stays in the same hotel (likely the same room) , makes specific late night texts the night before the overnight stay……

Lies to you about the guy and going to overnight parties WITH HIM…….

You may be incredibly naive. But I personally think it’s denial because you love who you wish your wife is, and don’t want to see the real person she acguallyis.

You can’t even bring yourself to discuss the fact that she still is making contact with the dude. You’re scared she might dump you.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> If you believe your wife may not be cheating at all after driving to late night work events with a guy she texts and talks to at all hours of the night, takes him home after overnight stays in the same hotel (likely the same room) , makes specific late night texts the night before the overnight stay……
> 
> Lies to you about the guy and going to overnight parties WITH HIM…….
> 
> You may be incredibly naive. But I personally think it’s denial because you love who you wish your wife is, and don’t want to see the real person she acguallyis.
> 
> You can’t even bring yourself to discuss the fact that she still is making contact with the dude. You’re scared she might dump you.


You have made a few valid points. 

What's worrying is that I'm not as scared as I thought I would be if she were to call it quits. That's me being brutally honest.


----------



## Rebel81

syhoybenden said:


> Full speed ahead.
> Run silent. Run deep.
> Keep your wits about you.
> And keep your eyes and ears open at all times.
> 
> My best guess is that she's just covering her ass for now but in the near future you are sadly going to find her reverting to her old hidden ways.
> 
> You try a VAR yet?


Continuing to go silent. 

Just found a card in a kitchen cupboard which we use daily. A birthday card in there from the same work colleague we have been talking about, wishing her a happy 40th birthday. Her birthday was about 5 months ago. However, it's also signed by another male colleague as well. Assume she received it today in work. 

Is she becoming slack and I just keep stum for now?


----------



## oldshirt

@Rebel81 

Since your wife is trying to pass this guy off as "just a friend", I invite you to take this survey and see how things actually add up by the numbers. 

I am curious to see what this will all add up to in your situation. 

As a disclaimer, this will NOT indicate whether your wife is or is not cheating. But it can give something of a numeric score of how much risk this situation entails.

Be honest and take the quiz and let us know what your final score is. 

If your parter has a “friend” that you are concerned with, take the test below and the higher the number, the greater the chance of some shenanigans going on.

1. How many “friends” does your partner have? None=0, 1=+1, multiple=+2.

2. Does your spouse and ‘friend’ go to parties, outings and other fun things without you? No=0, yes=+1.

3. Between you and your partner, who has the greater SMV? You= -1, partner=+1, same=0.

4. Is “friend” a friend to both of you(friend of the couple) ? Yes=0, no=+1

5. Is “friend” married? Yes=0, no=+1.

6. If married, is “friend’s” spouse also a friend of the couple? Yes=0, no=+1.

7. Is “friend” an ex lover? No=0, yes=+2.

8. Between you and “friend” who has the higher SMV? You(female)=0, you(male)=-1. Friend=+1

9. Do friend and your partner drink/drugs? No=0. Yes=+2.

10. How much opportunity do they have to be alone? None=0, some=+1, a lot=+2.

11. Do you and partner have relationship problems. No=0, If partner is male, yes=+1, if partner female, yes=+2.

12. Do you and partner have sexual problems? No=0, if partner is male, yes=+2, if partner female, yes=+1.

13. If you are female, is your partner primarily an alpha or beta male?
Beta=0, alpha=+1.

14. If you are male, does your partner have any mental or personality disorders such as BPD etc? No=0, yes+1.

15. Has your partner ever cheated in the past? No=0, yes+2.

16. If yes to the above, did partner pass that AP off as “just a friend?” No=0, yes= an additional +2.

17. Has “friend” cheated or been an AP in the past? No=0, yes=+2.

18. Is your partner selfish, entitled, narcissistic, rules don’t apply to them etc? No=0, yes=+2.

19. Does your partner have a history of partying, multiple FWBs/FBs/ONSs etc when single? No=0, yes=+1.

Add them all up. The lower the number, the lesser likely hood of any shenanigans.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> @Rebel81
> 
> Since your wife is trying to pass this guy off as "just a friend", I invite you to take this survey and see how things actually add up by the numbers.
> 
> I am curious to see what this will all add up to in your situation.
> 
> As a disclaimer, this will NOT indicate whether your wife is or is not cheating. But it can give something of a numeric score of how much risk this situation entails.
> 
> Be honest and take the quiz and let us know what your final score is.
> 
> If your parter has a “friend” that you are concerned with, take the test below and the higher the number, the greater the chance of some shenanigans going on.
> 
> 1. How many “friends” does your partner have? None=0, 1=+1, multiple=+2.
> 
> 2. Does your spouse and ‘friend’ go to parties, outings and other fun things without you? No=0, yes=+1.
> 
> 3. Between you and your partner, who has the greater SMV? You= -1, partner=+1, same=0.
> 
> 4. Is “friend” a friend to both of you(friend of the couple) ? Yes=0, no=+1
> 
> 5. Is “friend” married? Yes=0, no=+1.
> 
> 6. If married, is “friend’s” spouse also a friend of the couple? Yes=0, no=+1.
> 
> 7. Is “friend” an ex lover? No=0, yes=+2.
> 
> 8. Between you and “friend” who has the higher SMV? You(female)=0, you(male)=-1. Friend=+1
> 
> 9. Do friend and your partner drink/drugs? No=0. Yes=+2.
> 
> 10. How much opportunity do they have to be alone? None=0, some=+1, a lot=+2.
> 
> 11. Do you and partner have relationship problems. No=0, If partner is male, yes=+1, if partner female, yes=+2.
> 
> 12. Do you and partner have sexual problems? No=0, if partner is male, yes=+2, if partner female, yes=+1.
> 
> 13. If you are female, is your partner primarily an alpha or beta male?
> Beta=0, alpha=+1.
> 
> 14. If you are male, does your partner have any mental or personality disorders such as BPD etc? No=0, yes+1.
> 
> 15. Has your partner ever cheated in the past? No=0, yes+2.
> 
> 16. If yes to the above, did partner pass that AP off as “just a friend?” No=0, yes= an additional +2.
> 
> 17. Has “friend” cheated or been an AP in the past? No=0, yes=+2.
> 
> 18. Is your partner selfish, entitled, narcissistic, rules don’t apply to them etc? No=0, yes=+2.
> 
> 19. Does your partner have a history of partying, multiple FWBs/FBs/ONSs etc when single? No=0, yes=+1.
> 
> Add them all up. The lower the number, the lesser likely hood of any shenanigans.


14!!


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Rebel81 said:


> Continuing to go silent.
> 
> Just found a card in a kitchen cupboard which we use daily. A birthday card in there from the same work colleague we have been talking about, wishing her a happy 40th birthday. Her birthday was about 5 months ago. However, it's also signed by another male colleague as well. Assume she received it today in work.
> 
> Is she becoming slack and I just keep stum for now?


There are only two males in her office?
No females like her well enough to sign a birthday card?


----------



## Rebel81

Gregory Chaucery said:


> There are only two males in her office?
> No females like her well enough to sign a birthday card?


Try about 20 males. She used to work full time with these guys. They now work a different shift.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Rebel81 said:


> Try about 20 males. She used to work full time with these guys. They now work a different shift.


That's my point.
It looks like to me that she is trying to depersonalize the birthday card by getting another signature.
I get depersonalized birthday cards from work every year and there are dozens of perfunctory signatures on the card.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> 14!!


Obviously this is all unofficial and nonscientific, but each point is one more element of risk and concern. 

None of it is evidence of infidelity, but if you take a look at my "Formula" thread from a few days ago, you'll see Bobert's post where he says his wife would have scored 16 and she was one of the most notorious and glaring cheaters on these pages in years.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> Obviously this is all unofficial and nonscientific, but each point is one more element of risk and concern.
> 
> None of it is evidence of infidelity, but if you take a look at my "Formula" thread from a few days ago, you'll see Bobert's post where he says his wife would have scored 16 and she was one of the most notorious and glaring cheaters on these pages in years.


Ya 14 is high. 

She was out last night at another work do. Came home at 2. Cried because she thinks I don't like her as a person. 

I love her but have alot of resentment.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Ya 14 is high.
> 
> She was out last night at another work do. Came home at 2. Cried because she thinks I don't like her as a person.
> 
> I love her but have alot of resentment.


She doesn't maybe consider you aren't happy because she is out till 2am while you sit at home?


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> Ya 14 is high.
> 
> She was out last night at another work do. Came home at 2. Cried because she thinks I don't like her as a person.
> 
> I love her but have alot of resentment.


She cried as a manipulation to keep you at home paying bills and killing spiders while she is out partying it up and living the life with other guys.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> Ya 14 is high.


Would you share your test with us so we can see what areas accrued the points. That may give some additional insight into where things are at in this situation.

If you break it down point by point, that may give a more clear picture as to what in going on with her.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> @Rebel81
> 
> Since your wife is trying to pass this guy off as "just a friend", I invite you to take this survey and see how things actually add up by the numbers.
> 
> I am curious to see what this will all add up to in your situation.
> 
> As a disclaimer, this will NOT indicate whether your wife is or is not cheating. But it can give something of a numeric score of how much risk this situation entails.
> 
> Be honest and take the quiz and let us know what your final score is.
> 
> If your parter has a “friend” that you are concerned with, take the test below and the higher the number, the greater the chance of some shenanigans going on.
> 
> 1. How many “friends” does your partner have? None=0, 1=+1, multiple=+2. 2
> 
> 2. Does your spouse and ‘friend’ go to parties, outings and other fun things without you? No=0, yes=+1. 1
> 
> 3. Between you and your partner, who has the greater SMV? You= -1, partner=+1, same=0. 0
> 
> 4. Is “friend” a friend to both of you(friend of the couple) ? Yes=0, no=+1. 1
> 
> 5. Is “friend” married? Yes=0, no=+1. 0
> 
> 6. If married, is “friend’s” spouse also a friend of the couple? Yes=0, no=+1. 1
> 
> 7. Is “friend” an ex lover? No=0, yes=+2. 0
> 
> 8. Between you and “friend” who has the higher SMV? You(female)=0, you(male)=-1. Friend=+1.-1
> 
> 9. Do friend and your partner drink/drugs? No=0. Yes=+2. 2
> 
> 10. How much opportunity do they have to be alone? None=0, some=+1, a lot=+2. 2
> 
> 11. Do you and partner have relationship problems. No=0, If partner is male, yes=+1, if partner female, yes=+2. 2
> 
> 12. Do you and partner have sexual problems? No=0, if partner is male, yes=+2, if partner female, yes=+1. 1
> 
> 13. If you are female, is your partner primarily an alpha or beta male?
> Beta=0, alpha=+1.
> 
> 14. If you are male, does your partner have any mental or personality disorders such as BPD etc? No=0, yes+1. 0
> 
> 15. Has your partner ever cheated in the past? No=0, yes+2. 0
> 
> 16. If yes to the above, did partner pass that AP off as “just a friend?” No=0, yes= an additional +2.
> 
> 17. Has “friend” cheated or been an AP in the past? No=0, yes=+2. 0
> 
> 18. Is your partner selfish, entitled, narcissistic, rules don’t apply to them etc? No=0, yes=+2. 1(kind of)
> 
> 19. Does your partner have a history of partying, multiple FWBs/FBs/ONSs etc when single? No=0, yes=+1. 0
> 
> Add them all up. The lower the number, the lesser likely hood of any shenanigans.


 Check them out above.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> She doesn't maybe consider you aren't happy because she is out till 2am while you sit at home?


That's completely normal in the cop world!! They have their own rules. 

Would love to hear from other cops.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Ya 14 is high.
> 
> She was out last night at another work do. Came home at 2. Cried because she thinks I don't like her as a person.
> 
> I love her but have alot of resentment.


Work or after work party/gathering? The later is completely inappropriate in marriage.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> Work or after work party/gathering? The later is completely inappropriate in marriage.


Work gathering at a local bar. 

One of her colleagues was moving to another district and it was a going away party.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> Check them out above.


I looked through your test and I have some concerns. 

A lot of these questions are going to be somewhat subjective and open to different interpretations based on differing perspectives. As an outside observer it is easy to see things a little differently than the person waist deep in the situation. 

But you have a number of responses that I think you should go back and look at a little deeper or at least question the real-world accuracy. 

A few that i think deserve a little evaluation are -

#3. Assigning an SMV value is very subjective and subject to personal opinion. I didn't catch your ages but in general, the younger the couple is, the more SMV the female is going to have. Unless the male is exceptionally good looking and financially successful and very charismatic and the female is fat and slovenly and very socially awkward, the female half is usually going to have the higher SMV even if for no other reason than she is a vagina owner. Are you exceptionally good looking (as in top 10% or so) and very financially successful? Is she obese or have any deformities or disfigurements? This may be a +1. 

#7. There is question here if they have hooked up in the past. This could possibly a +2.

#8. Again very subjective. You may better looking and more financially successful. But the big question is does SHE think you have the higher SMV????? If they are all cops, then to her, only people with a badge and uniform are all that. I've known (and hooked up with) Badge Bunnies. For some chicks the badge and uniform bumps up the SMV substantially to where the only males they even consider are in uniform. I'll leave your score where it is but be aware that to HER, this may be a +1.

#14. This is something you may want to consider a little deeper. Is her behavior rational and healthy? Could there be some underlying issues that have not yet been explored or evaluated. She may not have had an official evaluation and assessment and diagnosis by a mental health professional. But to some of us, her behavior seems questionable. This could possibly a +2 and if she does have some kind of BPD or something, you are in for a very rough ride and the chances of her getting down with other dudes or even taking off one day without warning are very high. 

#15. This is also highly questionable. You may not have rock-solid proof or a caught her with a smoking gun in her red hand, but there is legitimate question of her past fidelity here. This could also in reality be a +2. 

#16. If she did cheat with this dude(s) in the past, then she earns the additional +2 here as well since she passed him off as a "friend" and is trying to do so here as well. So this is also a potential +2.

#17. You simply don't know if he has cheated or not. It's possible he hasn't in the past. But I think all of our collective Spidey Senses are telling us he is a snake in the grass. This may be a potential +2

#18. I simply added the extra point because if you in your naivette' think is is "kind of" selfish, entitled and as you stated, "They have their own rules"..... then she is. 

So by your count as her loving, trusting and naive husband with your head currently in the sand scored her at 14 and by your own admission is high. 

BUT, if we were to add all of these other potential points, she could score as high as 24. That is getting close to max score. 

Now if we give the benefit of the doubt and say that in reality she only scored half of those potential additional points, that still puts her around 19 or so. 

Again this is not evidence or proof of actual cheating, but each point is an increase in an index of concern. And I will refer back to Bobert again. His wife was a horrific and monsterous cheater that left an unimaginable path of destruction in her wake and her score was 16. 

You likely have somewhere approaching 20 if not higher. 

Again not proof of anything. But it should give you enough of an index of suspicion that you at least open your eyes and do some legitimate investigating and looking into what is actually taking place right under your nose.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> I looked through your test and I have some concerns.
> 
> A lot of these questions are going to be somewhat subjective and open to different interpretations based on differing perspectives. As an outside observer it is easy to see things a little differently than the person waist deep in the situation.
> 
> But you have a number of responses that I think you should go back and look at a little deeper or at least question the real-world accuracy.
> 
> A few that i think deserve a little evaluation are -
> 
> #3. Assigning an SMV value is very subjective and subject to personal opinion. I didn't catch your ages but in general, the younger the couple is, the more SMV the female is going to have. Unless the male is exceptionally good looking and financially successful and very charismatic and the female is fat and slovenly and very socially awkward, the female half is usually going to have the higher SMV even if for no other reason than she is a vagina owner. Are you exceptionally good looking (as in top 10% or so) and very financially successful? Is she obese or have any deformities or disfigurements? This may be a +1.
> 
> #7. There is question here if they have hooked up in the past. This could possibly a +2.
> 
> #8. Again very subjective. You may better looking and more financially successful. But the big question is does SHE think you have the higher SMV????? If they are all cops, then to her, only people with a badge and uniform are all that. I've known (and hooked up with) Badge Bunnies. For some chicks the badge and uniform bumps up the SMV substantially to where the only males they even consider are in uniform. I'll leave your score where it is but be aware that to HER, this may be a +1.
> 
> #14. This is something you may want to consider a little deeper. Is her behavior rational and healthy? Could there be some underlying issues that have not yet been explored or evaluated. She may not have had an official evaluation and assessment and diagnosis by a mental health professional. But to some of us, her behavior seems questionable. This could possibly a +2 and if she does have some kind of BPD or something, you are in for a very rough ride and the chances of her getting down with other dudes or even taking off one day without warning are very high.
> 
> #15. This is also highly questionable. You may not have rock-solid proof or a caught her with a smoking gun in her red hand, but there is legitimate question of her past fidelity here. This could also in reality be a +2.
> 
> #16. If she did cheat with this dude(s) in the past, then she earns the additional +2 here as well since she passed him off as a "friend" and is trying to do so here as well. So this is also a potential +2.
> 
> #17. You simply don't know if he has cheated or not. It's possible he hasn't in the past. But I think all of our collective Spidey Senses are telling us he is a snake in the grass. This may be a potential +2
> 
> #18. I simply added the extra point because if you in your naivette' think is is "kind of" selfish, entitled and as you stated, "They have their own rules"..... then she is.
> 
> So by your count as her loving, trusting and naive husband with your head currently in the sand scored her at 14 and by your own admission is high.
> 
> BUT, if we were to add all of these other potential points, she could score as high as 24. That is getting close to max score.
> 
> Now if we give the benefit of the doubt and say that in reality she only scored half of those potential additional points, that still puts her around 19 or so.
> 
> Again this is not evidence or proof of actual cheating, but each point is an increase in an index of concern. And I will refer back to Bobert again. His wife was a horrific and monsterous cheater that left an unimaginable path of destruction in her wake and her score was 16.
> 
> You likely have somewhere approaching 20 if not higher.
> 
> Again not proof of anything. But it should give you enough of an index of suspicion that you at least open your eyes and do some legitimate investigating and looking into what is actually taking place right under your nose.


I'm not in the top 10% and I'm OK financially. I'm certainly not rich. 

So let's say her smv is higher. 

She is slightly bigger than average but has very sexy curves and can pull it off. She is also very tall. She does have body issues as in she thinks she is extremely obese and hates her body. 

I'm average in terms of body. Tall, not skinny or fat, and no deformities. I get complemented in my looks sometimes by others. 

So maybe let's say at least a 22!!


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> So maybe let's say at least a 22!!


So the question is at what point will you take this seriously, stop making excuses for her and actually do some legitimate investigating on your own instead of just asking her and accepting her silly answers?


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> She was out last night at another work do. Came home at 2.


I am guessing that some of the married people that went to that party, went to the party for an hour or 2 and then went home to their spouse. Others stayed until 2. And still others left the party with someone else after an hour or 2, but did not get home to their spouse until 2.

Although your wife has you convinced that her coming home at 2 is normal and no big deal, it was her choice and it is a big deal.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Work gathering at a local bar.
> 
> One of her colleagues was moving to another district and it was a going away party.


Why did she not have you meet her there or you go together. Inappropriate in my book!

I would tell her it is not that you don't like her, it is that her acting single is what you don't like. He interaction and behaviors are totally inappropriate in a marriage, unless it is an open marriage.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not in the top 10% and I'm OK financially. I'm certainly not rich.
> 
> So let's say her smv is higher.
> 
> She is slightly bigger than average but has very sexy curves and can pull it off. She is also very tall. She does have body issues as in she thinks she is extremely obese and hates her body.
> 
> I'm average in terms of body. Tall, not skinny or fat, and no deformities. I get complemented in my looks sometimes by others.
> 
> So maybe let's say at least a 22!!


So she is very prone to fall prey to a coworkers compliments and sexual inuendos.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Work gathering at a local bar.
> 
> One of her colleagues was moving to another district and it was a going away party.


All these late night "work functions" are inappropriate for married folks in mine and my wife's book. Going away party should have been at work.... probably was and was "to be continued" later to drink. This going out partying with work crowd and leaving spouse at home is BS and is just asking for trouble. She should have been home at a decent hour if there were not some hinky crap going on. She is upset because she si scared of loosing her cake and eat it to, because OP is behaving differently.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> All these late night "work functions" are inappropriate for married folks in mine and my wife's book. Going away party should have been at work.... probably was and was "to be continued" later to drink. This going out partying with work crowd and leaving spouse at home is BS and is just asking for trouble. She should have been home at a decent hour if there were not some hinky crap going on. She is upset because she si scared of loosing her cake and eat it to, because OP is behaving differently.


This is what they do. 

I raised this type of behaviour when I first met her and I was made to feel like I had two heads. It's just what they do.


----------



## Rebel81

TRy said:


> I am guessing that some of the married people that went to that party, went to the party for an hour or 2 and then went home to their spouse. Others stayed until 2. And still others left the party with someone else after an hour or 2, but did not get home to their spouse until 2.
> 
> Although your wife has you convinced that her coming home at 2 is normal and no big deal, it was her choice and it is a big deal.


There was 7 of them at the party. All went home at 2.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> There was 7 of them at the party. All went home at 2.


And you know this for a fact how?


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

TRy said:


> I am guessing that some of the married people that went to that party, went to the party for an hour or 2 and then went home to their spouse. Others stayed until 2. And still others left the party with someone else after an hour or 2, but did not get home to their spouse until 2.
> 
> Although your wife has you convinced that her coming home at 2 is normal and no big deal, it was her choice and it is a big deal.


I work at a police station and it has a lounge. It is actually pretty normal for them to go to the lounge to decompress for a couple of hours before they head home. It allows them to leave their work at work.

But the police brass at my station lead a very disciplined station and any officers involved extra-marritaly with other officers can expect to be disciplined.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> This is what they do.
> 
> I raised this type of behaviour when I first met her and I was made to feel like I had two heads. It's just what they do.


The problem is, she sees no issue in treating you this way. Says something about them. Why did you not go with her to this. If my wife went to a bar party and returned at 2 am, I would tell her she is showing me she does not want to be married. I bet she did not want you going because she did not want you seeing her interaction with "the guys". If you don't have the nads to put a stop to this or go with her, have someone follow her and record the interactions....bet you will not like what you see.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Divinely Favored said:


> The problem is, she sees no issue in treating you this way. Says something about them. Why did you not go with her to this. If my wife went to a bar party and returned at 2 am, I would tell her she is showing me she does not want to be married. I bet she did not want you going because she did not want you seeing her interaction with "the guys". If you don't have the nads to put a stop to this or go with her, have someone follow her and record the interactions....bet you will not like what you see.


Because it's what they do. Apparently he is powerless to do anything about it.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> There was 7 of them at the party. All went home at 2.


Yeah but who’s home did she go to?


----------



## Divinely Favored

BigDaddyNY said:


> Because it's what they do. Apparently he is powerless to do anything about it.


He chooses not to....


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> Yeah but who’s home did she go to?


Mine of course.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Rebel81 said:


> Mine of course.


When she is home at 2am, what time is she getting off work?
Could you ask her to leave her cell phone locator on?
If she's at work in the lounge, to decompress, you could see that and not worry.


----------



## Jimi007

@Rebel81 you seem to be ok with these after hours office interactions. We're there any other spouses invited ? Or just not you ?


----------



## Rebel81

Jimi007 said:


> @Rebel81 you seem to be ok with these after hours office interactions. We're there any other spouses invited ? Or just not you ?


I'm OK with them if she is home at a reasonable hour. Home at 2am when she went out at 5pm makes me uncomfortable. She was also to be up the next morning with our kids as I had something one. She still got up but she suffered yesterday. 

Had a talk last night and she is lonely, extremely lonely in our marriage. Told her the same thing. Both agreed to change things.


----------



## Jimi007

Rebel81 said:


> I'm OK with them if she is home at a reasonable hour. Home at 2am when she went out at 5pm makes me uncomfortable. She was also to be up the next morning with our kids as I had something one. She still got up but she suffered yesterday.
> 
> Had a talk last night and she is lonely, extremely lonely in our marriage. Told her the same thing. Both agreed to change things.


I guess that is a good start...Change never comes easy. 
I wish you luck . !


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I'm OK with them if she is home at a reasonable hour. Home at 2am when she went out at 5pm makes me uncomfortable. She was also to be up the next morning with our kids as I had something one. She still got up but she suffered yesterday.
> 
> Had a talk last night and she is lonely, extremely lonely in our marriage. Told her the same thing. Both agreed to change things.


She is extremely lonely and hanging with guys all night flirting sexually. Wonder if this is in her mind or just because she is leaving and remaining away from you so much. She is lonely, sounds like she is setting up her excuse for why she was/is/will continue to be unfaithful.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> She is extremely lonely and hanging with guys all night flirting sexually. Wonder if this is in her mind or just because she is leaving and remaining away from you so much. She is lonely, sounds like she is setting up her excuse for why she was/is/will continue to be unfaithful.


I can be quite withdrawn at time moody etc. That is not a lie. 

So I get where she is coming from. At the same time, I'm not all of a sudden forgetting while I put this thread up in the first place. 

Mouth shut, eyes wide open.


----------



## TAMAT

*Mouth shut, eyes wide open. *

There is good chance cheating is normalized in your WWs workplace and she thinks nothing of it, and the entire work culture supports it and may have elaborate mechanisms to conceal.

If that's the case your WW will never confess as certain kinds of loyalties are stronger to her coworkers than they are to you, you are her husband but not her lover.

You may have no option if all of this is true except to catch her in the act. She may also belive that what happened in the past never happened or has no importance in the present.


----------



## ConanHub

TAMAT said:


> *Mouth shut, eyes wide open. *
> 
> There is good chance cheating is normalized in your WWs workplace and she thinks nothing of it, and the entire work culture supports it and may have elaborate mechanisms to conceal.
> 
> If that's the case your WW will never confess as certain kinds of loyalties are stronger to her coworkers than they are to you, you are her husband but not her lover.
> 
> You may have no option if all of this is true except to catch her in the act. She may also belive that what happened in the past never happened or has no importance in the present.


The amount of work related, travel involved, professional level infidelity is a bit staggering.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> I'm OK with them if she is home at a reasonable hour. Home at 2am when she went out at 5pm makes me uncomfortable. She was also to be up the next morning with our kids as I had something one. She still got up but she suffered yesterday.


By definition cheaters lie, and yet spouses that suspect that their spouses are cheating still base their reality on what they are told by their spouse. For example you believe that all of the 7 co-workers where together the other night from 5:00 pm until they separated to get home by 2:00 am, and refused to discuss the possibility that not everyone stayed together the whole time as there was plenty of time for pairing off. You also believe that your wife and the other man (“OM”), that your wife drove up and back with, both stayed at a hotel when they were only 25 minutes away did it to save 10 Euros, and you think that this was normal and rational thinking by both of them? Worse yet when your wife was out from 5:00 pm to 2:00 am along with the OM, you feel bad that she suffered when she had to get up to take care of the kids; if you did not have plans, you would have watched the kids to let her sleep in.



Rebel81 said:


> Had a talk last night and she is lonely, extremely lonely in our marriage. Told her the same thing. Both agreed to change things.


Maybe if she did not stay out until 2:00 am with other men or stay at hotel with them, and instead used that time to invest in her marriage, she would not be so lonely in her marriage with you. BTW, one of the top excuses cheaters use to blame shift the cause for their cheating is that their spouse made them lonely in their marriage, and in her mind you just accepted such blame.

A major longterm study at the University of Michigan shows that only 2 percent of spouses catch cheaters in the actual act of cheating, with only 5 percent of cheaters admitting that they cheated (that includes the 2 percent caught it the act). If that is what you are waiting for, you will be waiting a long time and you will probably never catch her. For most others hotel stays not far from your home with another man that you have issues with would be good enough.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I can be quite withdrawn at time moody etc. That is not a lie.
> 
> So I get where she is coming from. At the same time, I'm not all of a sudden forgetting while I put this thread up in the first place.
> 
> Mouth shut, eyes wide open.


I would be going with her to these "after work get togethers" observe the interactions or she don't go, plain and simple.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> I would be going with her to these "after work get togethers" observe the interactions or she don't go, plain and simple.


She invited me to one of her females colleagues birthday in a foreign country and we are going together. Its a 1 week holiday.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> She invited me to one of her females colleagues birthday in a foreign country and we are going together. Its a 1 week holiday.


Good. But this type thing is not the usual after hours work gatherings with all the guys she typically attends.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> Good. But this type thing is not the usual after hours work gatherings with all the guys she typically attends.


From what I know, it's just work colleagues going and some of their spouses. 

If she had have asked me if she could go alonez I would absolutely have said no.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> From what I know, it's just work colleagues going and some of their spouses.
> 
> If she had have asked me if she could go alonez* I would absolutely have said no.*


What have you said no to in the past?


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> What have you said no to in the past?


Zilch I guess. 

I did raise my issues with the OM back 6 years ago. And she voluntarily said she would stop engaging with him out of respect for me. He was not working there at the time as he was on sick leave. 

Obviously he is back working again. 

She gave a lift to guys from work last week at like 2 in the morning. Again its what they do. Just had a suspicion that one of these guys was the OM. 

Now she didn't have to say anything to me, and she did. So that counts for something.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> From what I know, it's just work colleagues going and some of their spouses.
> 
> If she had have asked me if she could go alonez I would absolutely have said no.


You are not seeing the forest for the trees.

The BD party is not a big deal as her constantly going to the bar with the guys till at least 2 am. I bet she would not have wanted you going bar hopping with with her and the guys.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> You are not seeing the forest for the trees.
> 
> The BD party is not a big deal as her constantly going to the bar with the guys till at least 2 am. I bet she would not have wanted you going bar hopping with with her and the guys.


I don't believe they went bar hopping. It was just her unit, the guy leaving and his spouse. 

I know all these guys and I believe I can trust them. They are all married which may not count for much but worth saying. 

Not sure if I said, but she came home at 2am and started crying. I wondered what the hell was wrong with her. She woke me up obviously and wondered if something happened to her. 

She kept saying she is lonely, she is a good person, that she doesn't believe i like her as a person. 

I'm so torn between trying to be more present in our marriage while at the same time keeping my eyes open. 

She asked me recently if I trust her. I said not 100%. She told me that she has never cheated in her life that she is a loyal dog. 

Her last relationship broke up because the guy kept Questioning her. If she went to get a drink, she would be chatting briefly to some stranger and it drove him nuts. He would also verbally abuse her when she got text messages from her male colleagues. Apparently he suffered from small man syndrome. She was taller than he was. 

She wondered recently if she was taller than me, in a kind of mocking tone. I'm half an inch taller. I just really think she is man with a vagina. So sad and weird to say that.


----------



## Evinrude58

Your wife is playing you like a Violin.

She’s got you worried about being more “present in the marriage” and making you feel like you’re insecure , while you stay home with the kids and she’s out partying at bars regularly until 2am. Dude, she’s dead absent!!!!!!!

See someone good at dealing with this and find out why you are scared to give your wife some normal boundaries that 99% of loyal wives have— or she can leave. Aren’t you miserable with this arrangement???

Fact: loyal wives do not stay out At a bar with “the guys” until 2am. Then she comes home crying that she’s lonely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Has she ever thought YOU might be lonely while she’s out flirting and having sex with her bf?
You are a very naive man.

Wife returns from closing down the bar with the guys:

Honey I’m so lonely!😭😭

cringeworthy


----------



## oldshirt

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife is playing you like a Violin.
> 
> She’s got you worried about being more “present in the marriage” and making you feel like you’re insecure , while you stay home with the kids and she’s out partying at bars regularly until 2am. Dude, she’s dead absent!!!!!!!
> 
> See someone good at dealing with this and find out why you are scared to give your wife some normal boundaries that 99% of loyal wives have— or she can leave. Aren’t you miserable with this arrangement???
> 
> Fact: loyal wives do not stay out At a bar with “the guys” until 2am. Then she comes home crying that she’s lonely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Has she ever thought YOU might be lonely while she’s out flirting and having sex with her bf?
> You are a very naive man.
> 
> Wife returns from closing down the bar with the guys:
> 
> Honey I’m so lonely!😭😭
> 
> cringeworthy


I think this is kind of indicative of White Knight mentality.

A Captain-Save-A-Ho will think that if he can rescue a chick from herself and be the good guy, that she will see how good he is to her and will leave her Town-Bicycle days behind and fall in love with him and devote herself to him.

The problem is whenever he tries to institute some boundaries and expectations of conduct, all it takes is some crocodile tears or acting like she is hurt or distressed by his boundaries and expectations and he immediately caved in. 

And he’ll fight to the death because in order for him to be the rescuer, she has to be a damsel in distress. 

In order for him to save her from herself, she has to continually be a train wreck. 

If she were to straighten up and fly right, he would lose his purpose and not know what to do with himself. 

He is an enabler and codependent.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife is playing you like a Violin.
> 
> She’s got you worried about being more “present in the marriage” and making you feel like you’re insecure , while you stay home with the kids and she’s out partying at bars regularly until 2am. Dude, she’s dead absent!!!!!!!
> 
> See someone good at dealing with this and find out why you are scared to give your wife some normal boundaries that 99% of loyal wives have— or she can leave. Aren’t you miserable with this arrangement???
> 
> Fact: loyal wives do not stay out At a bar with “the guys” until 2am. Then she comes home crying that she’s lonely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Has she ever thought YOU might be lonely while she’s out flirting and having sex with her bf?
> You are a very naive man.
> 
> Wife returns from closing down the bar with the guys:
> 
> Honey I’m so lonely!😭😭
> 
> cringeworthy


I'm not naive. 

Just wish I could have her followed to confirm once and for all if she is cheating or I'm just so insecure. 

I know how this looks. 

She is working today and I'm with kids, cooking dinner, doing activities with them. Yet she will find something to give out about tomorrow. Again, yes I'm looking stupid here. 

Tbh I'm very passive aggressive towards her, but if late, I'm calling her out on ****. And she doesn't like it. Then she pulls the lonely card. What's funny is we've been getting on so much better the last 2 months than we have in years.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not naive.
> 
> Just wish I could have her followed to confirm once and for all if she is cheating or I'm just so insecure.
> 
> I know how this looks.
> 
> She is working today and I'm with kids, cooking dinner, doing activities with them. Yet she will find something to give out about tomorrow. Again, yes I'm looking stupid here.
> 
> Tbh I'm very passive aggressive towards her, but if late, I'm calling her out on ****. And she doesn't like it. Then she pulls the lonely card. What's funny is we've been getting on so much better the last 2 months than we have in years.


Don't apologize for being insecure, when she isn't trying to prove to you that she isn't up to anything.

Maybe you should track her once or twice. You can get little GPS units that you can put in her car that would tell you her movements when she is driving. Yiu can put it her car without telling her and monitor it so she doesn't know.

Get somebody to babysit the kids, under pretense that you need to do some shopping and check her out.


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> and she is lonely, extremely lonely in our marriage.


And her staying out with folks from work from 5pm to 2AM while you are home helps that exactly HOW? It's hard NOT to be lonely in the marriage if she isn't around you and is out partying with her guy friends.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not naive.
> 
> Just wish I could have her followed to confirm once and for all if she is cheating or I'm just so insecure.
> 
> I know how this looks.
> 
> She is working today and I'm with kids, cooking dinner, doing activities with them. Yet she will find something to give out about tomorrow. Again, yes I'm looking stupid here.
> 
> Tbh I'm very passive aggressive towards her, but if late, I'm calling her out on ****. And she doesn't like it. Then she pulls the lonely card. What's funny is we've been getting on so much better the last 2 months than we have in years.


well f do not feel too judged. It is rough to hear your story from the outside, but I assure you I was not at my best when I went through a divorce. I think your best shot is start getting out yourself and making a life and letting her see you doing well without her. She’s not acting like a loving wife in my opinion, and the lonely card, crying after closing bars, probably taking bad about you and your relationship to the coworkers/bf/guys……I think she’s on her way out from you if you don’t show some strength. But judging how she seems to be—- you’d be better off.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> I did raise my issues with the OM back 6 years ago. And she voluntarily said she would stop engaging with him out of respect for me.


If she said that she would voluntarily stop engaging with the other man “out of respect” for you, then her still engaging with the other man must be out of disrespect for you.


Rebel81 said:


> She gave a lift to guys from work last week at like 2 in the morning. Again its what they do. Just had a suspicion that one of these guys was the OM.


They should not set the rules for your marriage. They do not care about you or your marriage. If your wife is openly cheating on you among these coworkers, they would not tell you or his wife. Their loyalty is with the other man and your wife. When my father cheated on my mother with a coworker, my mom was deeply hurt about coworkers that she thought were friends not only not telling her, but that helped facilitate the cheating by proving cover stories.



Rebel81 said:


> Now she didn't have to say anything to me, and she did. So that counts for something.


Cheaters always volunteer partial truths to get credibility for their cover up story; they need to tell you something.


----------



## Jimi007

Divinely Favored said:


> I would be going with her to these "after work get togethers" observe the interactions or she don't go, plain and simple.


That's why I asked earlier , we're other spouses invited to the retirement party ? Or just not YOU ?


----------



## Rebel81

Jimi007 said:


> That's why I asked earlier , we're other spouses invited to the retirement party ? Or just not YOU ?


I don't know who was invited, apparently it was all alst minute. 

She did say she felt guilty asking me if she could go out. She did actually ask if it was OK.


----------



## Rebel81

TRy said:


> If she said that she would voluntarily stop engaging with the other man “out of respect” for you, then her still engaging with the other man must be out of disrespect for you.
> 
> They should not set the rules for your marriage. They do not care about you or your marriage. If your wife is openly cheating on you among these coworkers, they would not tell you or his wife. Their loyalty is with the other man and your wife. When my father cheated on my mother with a coworker, my mom was deeply hurt about coworkers that she thought were friends not only not telling her, but that helped facilitate the cheating by proving cover stories.
> 
> 
> Cheaters always volunteer partial truths to get credibility for their cover up story; they need to tell you something.


Yes it's complete disrespect, I don't know the level of their interaction. 

The text I had seen was him saying this is 'x' here. So he had a different number and him asking her if she would like a drink.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> well f do not feel too judged. It is rough to hear your story from the outside, but I assure you I was not at my best when I went through a divorce. I think your best shot is start getting out yourself and making a life and letting her see you doing well without her. She’s not acting like a loving wife in my opinion, and the lonely card, crying after closing bars, probably taking bad about you and your relationship to the coworkers/bf/guys……I think she’s on her way out from you if you don’t show some strength. But judging how she seems to be—- you’d be better off.


That scares me. 

I literally went from one long term relationship to this one. And the last one was bad. I also behaved bad in that relationship but I was young and naive. 

I actually took a break from my current wife 3 months In to our relationship. I wasn't planning on going back but she managed to get me to


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I don't know who was invited, apparently it was all alst minute.
> 
> She did say she felt guilty asking me if she could go out. She did actually ask if it was OK.


Guilty my butt. Why didn't she just ask you to go with her to the party?

Because she did not want you there, that's why. If you were there she could not have partied with the boys till 2am. Her actions are highly suspect in my book. I doubt she could pass a polygraph that there has been no sexual interactions with any of these guys in any way.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> Guilty my butt. Why didn't she just ask you to go with her to the party?
> 
> Because she did not want you there, that's why. If you were there she could not have partied with the boys till 2am. Her actions are highly suspect in my book. I doubt she could pass a polygraph that there has been no sexual interactions with any of these guys in any way.


Maybe it's an Irish thing. I wouldn't invite her if it were one of my colleagues having a leaving party. Why would I, she doesn't work with them?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Maybe it's an Irish thing. I wouldn't invite her if it were one of my colleagues having a leaving party. Why would I, she doesn't work with them?


Because it is after hours at a bar, till 2 am. What she has done in my book is very disrespectful to you and the marriage relationship. Common courtesy for a marriage relationship is spouse goes to. My off hours are my family time, you want me there, I am a package deal with my wife, and vice versa. Some people are different. To my wife and I GNO/BNO are off limits in marriage. We do not believe there should be bachelor/bachelorette parties either. If one wants to go that route, secretly record all the goings on for fiancee to observe and then decide if they want to marry that person they see on the video.

That would make a nice TV show. Kind of like Cheaters but undercover cameras at those bachelor and bachelorette parties and revealed to fiancee's next day. From what I have read from strippers that are hired for these events, almost half of the brides to be, cheat on their fiance's with the strippers.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> Because it is after hours at a bar, till 2 am. What she has done in my book is very disrespectful to you and the marriage relationship. Common courtesy for a marriage relationship is spouse goes to. My off hours are my family time, you want me there, I am a package deal with my wife, and vice versa. Some people are different. To my wife and I GNO/BNO are off limits in marriage. We do not believe there should be bachelor/bachelorette parties either. If one wants to go that route, secretly record all the goings on for fiancee to observe and then decide if they want to marry that person they see on the video.
> 
> That would make a nice TV show. Kind of like Cheaters but undercover cameras at those bachelor and bachelorette parties and revealed to fiancee's next day. From what I have read from strippers that are hired for these events, almost half of the brides to be, cheat on their fiance's with the strippers.


I appreciate that. 

I like a guys night out as much as the next guy. Doesn't happen too often, but I do behave myself. 

As for strippers, lucky for me, my mother and sisters were at my wife's bachelorette party and there was no stripper.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> The text I had seen was him saying this is 'x' here. So he had a different number and him asking her if she would like a drink.


The other man (“OM”) having a 2nd number where he had to identify himself to your wife makes me wonder if it is a burner phone. Remember that the OM is married too, and he may not want his wife to see him asking your wife out for drinks one on one. Doing things like driving for hours up and back alone with your wife to parties where they spend the night at a hotel, may have put your wife on the OM’s wife’s radar.

In most peoples book, asking a woman out for drinks one on one is called a date. Oh wait, it’s OK as your wife assures you that it is common practice in her group, thus yet again marital boundaries do not apply, never mind that she promised that she would voluntarily stop engaging with the other man.


----------



## Evinrude58

Divinely Favored said:


> Guilty my butt. Why didn't she just ask you to go with her to the party?
> 
> Because she did not want you there, that's why. If you were there she could not have partied with the boys till 2am. Her actions are highly suspect in my book. I doubt she could pass a polygraph that there has been no sexual interactions with any of these guys in any way.


Somebody has to babysit!!!!!!


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> That scares me.
> 
> I literally went from one long term relationship to this one. And the last one was bad. I also behaved bad in that relationship but I was young and naive.
> 
> I actually took a break from my current wife 3 months In to our relationship. I wasn't planning on going back but she managed to get me to


Have you ever told your wife the n word before?
The two letter N word?

stop running scared and start running like a confident man and do what a confident man that knew without a doubt he could find another high value person to marry.

A confident man would send your barhopping-overnight drinking and partying- going on dates with another man- wife………….packing.

Even if she was not disloyal (which is as likely as my winning the lottery, at best) her behavior is just lousy.
Surely you can do better than this person.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Have you ever told your wife the n word before?
> The two letter N word?
> 
> stop running scared and start running like a confident man and do what a confident man that knew without a doubt he could find another high value person to marry.
> 
> A confident man would send your barhopping-overnight drinking and partying- going on dates with another man- wife………….packing.
> 
> Even if she was not disloyal (which is as likely as my winning the lottery, at best) her behavior is just lousy.
> Surely you can do better than this person.


I still don't think she has cheated. It's a bit like my logical mind says she has, but the way she explains things to me makes me think no way. Could she be that bad that she tells me she jas never cheated in her life? This is without me asking the question. 

I'm seeing a therapist at the moment for the exact reason you mention. Confidence and seeing myself as a valuable male. 

I'm a good looking caring guy, and I have a good job and stability. I could get any female I wanted to will have to be my mantra. 

If I told her what she's doing is wrong, I think she would say I'm controlling or act like she is the victim. I'm in this situation now so long I forget.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> I still don't think she has cheated. It's a bit like my logical mind says she has, but the way she explains things to me makes me think no way. Could she be that bad that she tells me she jas never cheated in her life? This is without me asking the question.


What exactly will it take for you to be convinced that she has cheated? If you think that she will give you a confession out of the goodness of her heart, you will be waiting a very long time. If your not willing to do serious things such as hire a PI to follow her on trips where you know that she will be staying at a hotel with the other man, then you are not making a meaningful effort to find out what is going on. And please do not tell me that a PI is too expensive, as we are only talking about a few very high probability hours, and the cost of spending more of your life than you have to with a cheater is much higher.

BTW, my wife does not tell me that she has not cheated without being asked, because she is doing nothing that would make her feel the need to do so.


----------



## Jimi007

TRy said:


> The other man (“OM”) having a 2nd number where he had to identify himself to your wife makes me wonder if it is a burner phone. Remember that the OM is married too, and he may not want his wife to see him asking your wife out for drinks one on one. Doing things like driving for hours up and back alone with your wife to parties where they spend the night at a hotel, may have put your wife on the OM’s wife’s radar.
> 
> In most peoples book, asking a woman out for drinks one on one is called a date. Oh wait, it’s OK as your wife assures you that it is common practice in her group, thus yet again marital boundaries do not apply, never mind that she promised that she would voluntarily stop engaging with the other man.


What a breath of fresh air....That really wraps up up into a nice package....Just facts no conjecture. Well spoken 👏 👌


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## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I still don't think she has cheated. It's a bit like my logical mind says she has, but the way she explains things to me makes me think no way. Could she be that bad that she tells me she jas never cheated in her life? This is without me asking the question.
> 
> I'm seeing a therapist at the moment for the exact reason you mention. Confidence and seeing myself as a valuable male.
> 
> I'm a good looking caring guy, and I have a good job and stability. I could get any female I wanted to will have to be my mantra.
> 
> If I told her what she's doing is wrong, I think she would say I'm controlling or act like she is the victim. I'm in this situation now so long I forget.


That is exactly what cheating wives would say!!!!


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## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> I still don't think she has cheated. It's a bit like my logical mind says she has, but the way she explains things to me makes me think no way. Could she be that bad that she tells me she jas never cheated in her life? This is without me asking the question.
> 
> I'm seeing a therapist at the moment for the exact reason you mention. Confidence and seeing myself as a valuable male.
> 
> I'm a good looking caring guy, and I have a good job and stability. I could get any female I wanted to will have to be my mantra.
> 
> If I told her what she's doing is wrong, I think she would say I'm controlling or act like she is the victim. I'm in this situation now so long I forget.


You’re still not getting it. 

You don’t have to convince her she is cheating or that she is being a lousy wife. 

She doesn’t have to agree with you for you to dump her azz and move on.


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## Evinrude58

The visual image I get of your description of your wife is this:
She is enjoying her Police carreer. She enjoys hanging out with her police guy friends a LOT.
Every “event” they have after hours, and it seems like a LOT, your wife makes that bs a priority while you stay home with the kids wondering who she’s with and who she’s doing. She’s at bars and hotels with men.
One that you know has interest in your wife, he goes on overnight trips with her and she brings him home. After closing down bars with the guys, she comes home CRYING, saying how lonely she is in the marriage. 

So my question to you is this:

Why do you love this person? What are her good aspects? What is her contribution to the marriage, and do you think that is a fair distribution?

I personally would not want to be married to a woman that shows me regularly that she’d rather be closing down the bars with male work buddies than at home spending time with me and our kids. JMO


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## oldshirt

And I will also add that you do not have to believe her when she is telling you that you are not actually seeing what you are seeing with your own eyes and what you know in your own gut. 

Cheaters lie and the deceive and they gaslight and they misdirect. 

But you are not obligated to believe them when they tell you it is perfectly ok to be out drinking and partying and going on dates with other men. 

It’s ok for you to believe what you see with your own eyes and know in your own brain and in your own heart. 

And the best part is, you do not have
to convince them and their affair partners that they are cheating and that what they are doing is wrong. You really don’t. 

You are free to make your own decisions and do what is best for you even while they they are lying to you and telling you that they aren’t doing anything wrong.


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## BoSlander

Rebel81 said:


> I still don't think she has cheated.


She is certainly putting herself in places where that can EASILY happen. And that’s why you are here.

You MUST put up boundaries around yourself, let HER know and, if she doesn’t agree, start the 180°.

If we (non cheaters) do not do take these animals (cheaters) to task, they will destroy relationship after relationship, unchecked.


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## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> The visual image I get of your description of your wife is this:
> She is enjoying her Police carreer. She enjoys hanging out with her police guy friends a LOT.
> Every “event” they have after hours, and it seems like a LOT, your wife makes that bs a priority while you stay home with the kids wondering who she’s with and who she’s doing. She’s at bars and hotels with men.
> One that you know has interest in your wife, he goes on overnight trips with her and she brings him home. After closing down bars with the guys, she comes home CRYING, saying how lonely she is in the marriage.
> 
> So my question to you is this:
> 
> Why do you love this person? What are her good aspects? What is her contribution to the marriage, and do you think that is a fair distribution?
> 
> I personally would not want to be married to a woman that shows me regularly that she’d rather be closing down the bars with male work buddies than at home spending time with me and our kids. JMO


Her good aspects. 

She is kind and affectionate, she is a good mom. Does she make me feel good about myself? No not at all. Has she ever done so, I don't believe so. Maybe at times, but overall no. 

Just to add, she has gone on nights out recently. These aren't as regular as you think. She doesn't go to hotels with other men she has gone to work parties in other states with female and male colleagues. 

As of now I feel deflated. After her comments about not being happy, lonely, that I don't like her as a person, I feel like I'm on trial and that I have to really impress or change who I am. The moods will stop on my part, I need to eliminate that. As for everything else, play it by year. 

She mentioned yesterday when reading an article that there was some kind of marriage enrichment course on near us and if I'd like to go. Naturally I said yes without thinking. She was kidding!! No way would she go she said as its religious based. She is religious for crying out loud.


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## Rebel81

Just to add... 

We have moved into a new house just under a year ago which we were building for 2 years. So a new home, young kids, good jobs, a not so happy wife and a not so happy husband. Hell no am I moving out of this house into my parents house. 

I really think we need marriage counselling.


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## Andy1001

I’m not Irish but I’ve been living in Ireland for around three years and I spent a long time here when I was growing up. I also own a bar in Ireland. 
The drinking culture amongst the police here is unbelievable. Sessions can start at nine o’clock at night and finish at five or six in the morning. And there seems to be a party every few weeks.
For the op’s wife to be accepted as part of the gang she would have to attend at least some of these sessions and not drinking alcohol would be viewed with suspicion. She would be suspected of “gathering information” for future use against her colleagues because there’s a lot of things discussed at these nights out that shouldn’t be. 
I really think that a career change is the only way for her to show that she is truly invested in this marriage.


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## Rebel81

Andy1001 said:


> I’m not Irish but I’ve been living in Ireland for around three years and I spent a long time here when I was growing up. I also own a bar in Ireland.
> The drinking culture amongst the police here is unbelievable. Sessions can start at nine o’clock at night and finish at five or six in the morning. And there seems to be a party every few weeks.
> For the op’s wife to be accepted as part of the gang she would have to attend at least some of these sessions and not drinking alcohol would be viewed with suspicion. She would be suspected of “gathering information” for future use against her colleagues because there’s a lot of things discussed at these nights out that shouldn’t be.
> I really think that a career change is the only way for her to show that she is truly invested in this marriage.


You are correct.

When I used to go out with buddies, we would head out at say 9 or 10pm, and be finished by 2.

When I started going out with my wife, these events finished at 4 or 5 or 6. I just didn't get it. Once 2am comes I'm done.

Even at a recent family wedding of hers, we went to bed at 5am. Its ridiculous.

I don't think she would ever change career. She has wanted to be a cop from an early age and pursued that dream.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> I really think we need marriage counselling.


Marriage counseling is a waste of time and money if she is cheating.


----------



## oldshirt

TRy said:


> Marriage counseling is a waste of time and money if she is cheating.


Yes to the above ^^^^^

If she is still in contact with another man(s) and getting her love'ns and hot and horny hormones from someone else, then sitting in MC is a complete waste of time and money. She'll just be sitting there marking time and waiting to get out so she can go see the OM. She would only be doing the MC to shut you up and get you off her back so she can see the OM in peace. 

MC is not a character transplant and it is not a means changing a bad spouse into a good person. 

Unless the affair is complete dead and buried and ALL contact between the WS and the AP is completely shut off, then MC is completely ineffective. The affair has to be completely shut down and the WS has to actually want to remain with the BS and has to be willing to do the heavy lifting to fix it in order for MC to have any effectiveness at all.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> You are correct.
> 
> When I used to go out with buddies, we would head out at say 9 or 10pm, and be finished by 2.
> 
> When I started going out with my wife, these events finished at 4 or 5 or 6. I just didn't get it. Once 2am comes I'm done.
> 
> Even at a recent family wedding of hers, we went to bed at 5am. Its ridiculous.
> 
> I don't think she would ever change career. She has wanted to be a cop from an early age and pursued that dream.


As crazy as it seems, I'm no longer convinced that she is cheating. It is still highly likely and for sure the opportunity is there, often, but I'm not as convinced as I was. It seems she is engaging in typical behavior for the career and location she is in. The question is, how much is cheating engrained in that career too. Even without the cheating, I don't know that I could be married to someone regularly goes out a parties to 2am or later while I sit at home with the kids. I would be constantly in a state of worry and concern about what she is doing. 

@Rebel81 Maybe she won't change careers, but would she consider curbing her afterwork activities? I mean, can't she leave at 11pm or something, lol. That would be a minor improvement.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> Just to add, she has gone on nights out recently. These aren't as regular as you think. She doesn't go to hotels with other men she has gone to work parties in other states with female and male colleagues.


She went to a work party at a hotel with mostly male coworkers, including a man that you do not trust with your wife, with the intent of getting too drunk to drive home, and stayed at this local hotel, just 25 minutes away from home supposedly to save just 10 Euros (verses a taxi). She did not want you picking her up from the party which would have saved more money because staying 7 hours drinking from 5:00pm to midnight was not good enough as she wanted to stay later. That is more in line with the facts than what you just said, is it not?


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> As crazy as it seems, I'm no longer convinced that she is cheating. It is still highly likely and for sure the opportunity is there, often, but I'm not as convinced as I was. It seems she is engaging in typical behavior for the career and location she is in. The question is, how much is cheating engrained in that career too. Even without the cheating, I don't know that I could be married to someone regularly goes out a parties to 2am or later while I sit at home with the kids. I would be constantly in a state of worry and concern about what she is doing.
> 
> @Rebel81 Maybe she won't change careers, but would she consider curbing her afterwork activities? I mean, can't she leave at 11pm or something, lol. That would be a minor improvement.


I'm not convinced either. She doesn't leave the house at irregular hours,. She goes where she says she is going. 

I just think she has **** boundaries. 

Yes that would be an improvement. She asked the last night she was out if could be a standby in case she can't get a ride home. I text her at 11pm asking if she has a ride organised? At 2.20am she said she had a lift home. I stayed awake ffs to see what the story was. 

Then for her to come home at 3am and cry and tell me she is lonely etc. I think it's my moods that bother her most. Im working on those. But I'm not taking any. More **** form her.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not convinced either. She doesn't leave the house at irregular hours,. She goes where she says she is going.
> 
> I just think she has **** boundaries.
> 
> Yes that would be an improvement. She asked the last night she was out if could be a standby in case she can't get a ride home. I text her at 11pm asking if she has a ride organised? At 2.20am she said she had a lift home. I stayed awake ffs to see what the story was.
> 
> Then for her to come home at 3am and cry and tell me she is lonely etc. I think it's my moods that bother her most. Im working on those. But I'm not taking any. More **** form her.


Brooding and being moody doesn't look good on anyone, but she needs to understand you have a right to be pissed at ****ty behavior. She left you at home with the kids AND left you hanging waiting for a response from her. Career or not, does she really think she is behaving like a proper wife and mother when she is getting drunk into all hours of the night?


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Brooding and being moody doesn't look good on anyone, but she needs to understand you have a right to be pissed at ****ty behavior. She left you at home with the kids AND left you hanging waiting for a response from her. Career or not, does she really think she is behaving like a proper wife and mother when she is getting drunk into all hours of the night?


Agreed and I've improved alot. I learned from my father... He was like that. I'm not half as bad and its getting better.

I agree and I totally forgot to say it to her. Her excuse will be I was out for my bosses last day, and you are getting pissed at me not texting you back. Wow, just wow will be her reply.

Nope doesn't look good on a mom and wife. Her own mom wouldn't do it. My mom wouldn't have done it.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> I agree and I totally forgot to say it to her. Her excuse will be I was out for my bosses last day, and you are getting pissed at me not texting you back. Wow, just wow will be her reply.


When you say that “Her excuse will be I was out for my bosses last day, and you are getting pissed at me not texting you back.”, your answer back should be “Yes that is exactly right; in the 9 hours that you were getting drunk at the party, you could have found the few minutes to text me back.”


----------



## Rebel81

TRy said:


> When you say that “Her excuse will be I was out for my bosses last day, and you are getting pissed at me not texting you back.”, your answer back should be “Yes that is exactly right; in the 9 hours that you were getting drunk at the party, you could have found the few minutes to text me back.”


Agreed. 

Thanks for your input and everybody else.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not convinced either. She doesn't leave the house at irregular hours,. She goes where she says she is going.
> 
> I just think she has **** boundaries.
> 
> Yes that would be an improvement. She asked the last night she was out if could be a standby in case she can't get a ride home. I text her at 11pm asking if she has a ride organised? At 2.20am she said she had a lift home. I stayed awake ffs to see what the story was.
> 
> Then for her to come home at 3am and cry and tell me she is lonely etc. I think it's my moods that bother her most. Im working on those. But I'm not taking any. More **** form her.


If no other penis has entered her vagina thus far, how long do you realistically think it will be before she does??

Do you honestly think that she will be out drinking and partying and going on dates with hunky alpha males forever and never cross that line??

Especially while you are having relationship and sex problems at home?

If she hasn’t crossed that line yet, how long do you think it will be before a day occurs that she is feeling slighted and neglected at home, she out out with hunky guys flattering her and telling her how great they think she is while she is ovulating and her horny hormones are spiking?

Are you that assured that those things won’t come together at some point in the next 20 or 30 years??? 

Y’know you can get by with dousing yourself with gasoline and smoking a cigarette most of the time if you do it perfectly each and every time forever. 

But in the real world under real world conditions and real world factors, how long do you think you get away with that before going up in flames??? 

Right now you are sitting there dripping with gas and everyone all around you is lighting up chain smoking right next to you. 

How long before before someone either intentionally or inadvertently drops a cigarette on your feet?


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> If no other penis has entered her vagina thus far, how long do you realistically think it will be before she does??
> 
> Do you honestly think that she will be out drinking and partying and going on dates with hunky alpha males forever and never cross that line??
> 
> Especially while you are having relationship and sex problems at home?
> 
> If she hasn’t crossed that line yet, how long do you think it will be before a day occurs that she is feeling slighted and neglected at home, she out out with hunky guys flattering her and telling her how great they think she is while she is ovulating and her horny hormones are spiking?
> 
> Are you that assured that those things won’t come together at some point in the next 20 or 30 years???
> 
> Y’know you can get by with dousing yourself with gasoline and smoking a cigarette most of the time if you do it perfectly each and every time forever.
> 
> But in the real world under real world conditions and real world factors, how long do you think you get away with that before going up in flames???
> 
> Right now you are sitting there dripping with gas and everyone all around you is lighting up chain smoking right next to you.
> 
> How long before before someone either intentionally or inadvertently drops a cigarette on your feet?


I'm not that out of choon with reality - yes it's a matter of time. 

If I or you were going out with sexy females, drinking it up... After a while the inevitable would happen. Its human nature.


----------



## Evinrude58

Your wife is not only not showing any love, respect, empathy, or any other positive emotion toward you.
In fact, after closing down the bar, while you stayed home with the kids, she actually came home snd cried that she was lonely and unhappy, etc.
Then clowns in you about marriage counseling.
The level of disrespect alone should have you gone long ago.
If you divorce, what are you losing?
You’re brooding, moody, etc. that is exactly what any normal man would be doing for a while with a wife acting like yours. Except they would put a stop to it or they’d leave.

You are in such denial that you can’t accept that she is going to hotels with another man or men, after bar hopping with other men.
You describe it as going to a hotel with colleagues.

Well these colleagues (men) wouldn’t be out until 3am without their wives if they were trustworthy. They’d be gone being a husband and father like YOU are doing.

Get your head above ground and see your marriage fit what it is.
She is TELLING you she is unhappy in the marriage, literally in tears, and at the same time has just come home grim hanging out with MEN at a bar while drinking heavily.

What on earth do you expect to happen if it hasn’t already shipped h is highly unlikely?

Ask your Therapist what their thoughts are on this.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not that out of choon with reality - yes it's a matter of time.
> 
> If I or you were going out with sexy females, drinking it up... After a while the inevitable would happen. Its human nature.


Not to mention she is crying to you about being lonely in her marriage. It is only a small step to find someone to help fill that hole. Pun slightly intended.


----------



## Robert22205

I think your suspicion is driving a wedge between you and your wife.

Therefore, you need to stop spinning around in victim mode - take control and do whatever it takes to put your mind at rest.

Otherwise, you are sabotaging your marriage.

Next time there's an event that you're concerned about - make arrangements to check up on her.


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> that I don't like her as a person, I feel like I'm on trial and that I have to really impress or change who I am.


If she honestly thinks that YOU don't like her as a person, don't you think that SHE should be the one to change to earn your respect? How will YOU changing fix the fact that you don't like her as a person? Makes no sense...


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> At 2.20am she said she had a lift home. I stayed awake ffs to see what the story was.


And WHO was it that brought her home?


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> And WHO was it that brought her home?


A male colleague who is married. He was working at the time. Her other colleagues and one of their wives were in the car too.


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> If she honestly thinks that YOU don't like her as a person, don't you think that SHE should be the one to change to earn your respect? How will YOU changing fix the fact that you don't like her as a person? Makes no sense...


Makes no sense whatsoever. 

What I don't like is her dominant personality and inability to see how some of her actions (when drinking) are inappropriate.


----------



## Jimi007

So other spouses were invited ? Just not you ? Why weren't you invited ?
Sounds more like she doesn't want you there....


----------



## Rebel81

Jimi007 said:


> So other spouses were invited ? Just not you ? Why weren't you invited ?
> Sounds more like she doesn't want you there....


The wife of the guy who was leaving was there. They live a 10 minute drive from the bar.


----------



## BoSlander

Robert22205 said:


> I think your suspicion is driving a wedge between you and your wife.
> 
> Therefore, you need to stop spinning around in victim mode - take control and do whatever it takes to put your mind at rest.
> 
> Otherwise, you are sabotaging your marriage.
> 
> Next time there's an event that you're concerned about - make arrangements to check up on her.


THIS ^^^^

You’re suffering from “paralysis by analysis” and, unless you find a smoking gun, I suggest you STFU and play beta, which, let’s face it, it’s been what you’ve been playing all along.

Gather intel. Put a VAR in the car, a key logger in your home PC. Monitor her cell phone: if it doesn’t move in 2 hours, she’s got a burner phone. Look for it. Monitor the car’s locations. When you listen to the VAR, if you hear two doors closing at the same time, tie it to place and time, that’ll tell you where they do it. If you can, place a small GPS device in her purse (make sure she can’t find it). If the GPS signals from her purse do not match her car’s GPS signal, she’s riding in his car. Et freaking cetera.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rebel81 said:


> Just to add...
> 
> We have moved into a new house just under a year ago which we were building for 2 years. So a new home, young kids, good jobs, a not so happy wife and a not so happy husband. Hell no am I moving out of this house into my parents house.
> 
> I really think we need marriage counselling.


Now is a good time to sell the house, take the profits split them. And start your new better life without her. Everything points to she's treating you like a joke. Sorry that sounds so harsh.


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not convinced either. She doesn't leave the house at irregular hours,. She goes where she says she is going.
> 
> I just think she has ****


Brother, a blow job takes less than 5 minutes. Cunnilingus about 10, and a “quicky” about 7 minutes.

You do the math.

And, before you ask, YES, cheaters do DO this. They also take time off the affair when on vacation, put it on standby, etc.


----------



## Robert22205

When she says she feels lonely in her marriage ....you should react as if she's screaming at the top of her lungs for help.
That statement suggests she will soon consider making a change (I"m not suggesting she's considering cheating).

What do you think she means by saying she's lonely?

It sounds like your wife has what I consider is a typical cop personality. Of course she'll take charge - it's how she's trained and what she needs to do her job safely/effectively.

Have you ever observed other men (or cop colleagues) checking out your wife or even looking twice at her?

Does she flirt by touching the guys, overly smiley, laughing at stupid jokes?

Do they treat her like one of the 'guys'?


----------



## Rebel81

Robert22205 said:


> When she says she feels lonely in her marriage ....you should react as if she's screaming at the top of her lungs for help.
> That statement suggests she will soon consider making a change (I"m not suggesting she's considering cheating).
> 
> What do you think she means by saying she's lonely?
> 
> It sounds like your wife has what I consider is a typical cop personality. Of course she'll take charge - it's how she's trained and what she needs to do her job safely/effectively.
> 
> Have you ever observed other men (or cop colleagues) checking out your wife or even looking twice at her?
> 
> Does she flirt by touching the guys, overly smiley, laughing at stupid jokes?
> 
> Do they treat her like one of the 'guys'?


I am taking it seriously. 

I've said the exact same thing to her on a few occasions so this isn't the first time either one of us have said it. 

She is so used to loving her cop life even before me that she doesn't know what's normal in a relationship. 

I think she feels ignored. It all came about during last week where I didn't say much to her. I wasn't really in the mood and left her to her own devices. This happens too often she said that it makes her feel lonely. She also doesn't feel liked by me, but she does feel loved. Go figure. 

I don't see any cop colleagues checking her out to be honest. She does laugh at all their jokes, yes. 

She is not the touchy type. Smiling yes, she does that with a lot of people. Make and female. 

Yes she is one of the guys they call her by her surname.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not that out of choon with reality - yes it's a matter of time.
> 
> If I or you were going out with sexy females, drinking it up... After a while the inevitable would happen. Its human nature.


Thing is, it would not happen, because I would not go there because it it plain wrong and inappropriate to go out getting drunk and leave my kids and spouse home. So no it is not human nature. If the princess wants to go out with the boys, then she should arrange childcare and you both go TOGETHER! No more freelancing like a single person. It is more like she is a wild teen girl with a baby and you are the parent home taking care of her kids.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> Thing is, it would not happen, because I would not go there because it it plain wrong and inappropriate to go out getting drunk and leave my kids and spouse home. So no it is not human nature. If the princess wants to go out with the boys, then she should arrange childcare and you both go TOGETHER! No more freelancing like a single person. It is more like she is a wild teen girl with a baby and you are the parent home taking care of her kids.


To date I've like tour advice. 

But I go out with friends and get drunk, without my spouse. As do millions of other couples. But I don't go out with a load or females and get a lift home from them. I also don't go to overnight parties and stay with females. Its her job, I stupidly married her.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Robert22205 said:


> When she says she feels lonely in her marriage ....you should react as if she's screaming at the top of her lungs for help.
> That statement suggests she will soon consider making a change (I"m not suggesting she's considering cheating).
> 
> What do you think she means by saying she's lonely?
> 
> It sounds like your wife has what I consider is a typical cop personality. Of course she'll take charge - it's how she's trained and what she needs to do her job safely/effectively.
> 
> Have you ever observed other men (or cop colleagues) checking out your wife or even looking twice at her?
> 
> Does she flirt by touching the guys, overly smiley, laughing at stupid jokes?
> 
> Do they treat her like one of the 'guys'?


She would not be feeling lonely if she was not going out to party with the boys so often to all hours of the night while hubby watches the kids and does the fatherly thing. While mom is off behaving like...well you get my drift....


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> To date I've like tour advice.
> 
> But I go out with friends and get drunk, without my spouse. As do millions of other couples. But I don't go out with a load or females and get a lift home from them. I also don't go to overnight parties and stay with females. Its her job, I stupidly married her.


It is not her job to go party all the damn time with the boys.


----------



## BernardoCairo

Have you tried to go out with your friends without her? Not that I'm recommending you to do it, but it would be a nice experiment to see her reaction. I once read that cheaters almost always accuse their partners of doing what they're doing. As if everyone is bounded by the same bad character that they are.
I had a friend who cheated on his girlfriend and was extremely possessive at the same time (horrible person, I'm glad he's out of my life).


----------



## Rebel81

BernardoCairo said:


> Have you tried to go out with your friends without her? Not that I'm recommending you to do it, but it would be a nice experiment to see her reaction. I once read that cheaters almost always accuse their partners of doing what they're doing. As if everyone is bounded by the same bad character that they are.
> I had a friend who cheated on his girlfriend and was extremely possessive at the same time (horrible person, I'm glad he's out of my life).


Yes I have a couple of times one the last few weeks. 

It just so happened she was also out at a bachelorette party the same night. 

She isnt the jealous type, has never shown jealousy except towards my ex who is the mother of my child.


----------



## BoSlander

Robert22205 said:


> When she says she feels lonely in her marriage ....you should react as if she's screaming at the top of her lungs for help.


If, IFFFFF, instead of saying “I feel lonely” people used the *correct* wording, namely “someone else is treating me better,” 99% of all relationships entering the cheating/separation/divorce stage would be spared.

Instead, we have to decode this horsesh-t infantile innuendo or pay someone $3000 to translate the “code word.”


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel81 said:


> But I go out with friends and get drunk, without my spouse.


Your kids would be proud.


----------



## TRy

JBLH said:


> Brother, a blow job takes less than 5 minutes. Cunnilingus about 10, and a “quicky” about 7 minutes.
> 
> You do the math.
> 
> And, before you ask, YES, cheaters do DO this. They also take time off the affair when on vacation, put it on standby, etc.


Why are we talking about a "quicky" when they would have the opportunity to spend the whole night together on one of the hotel without their spouses nights? If they get adjoining rooms with a door in-between, no one would see them even entering the same room.


----------



## Rebel81

Well I managed to get into her phone. 

Looked through her messages, Instagram Facebook and nothing there. Nothing suspicious in her phone log. 

Few messages to this colleague I've been banging on about all the time but all work related. And nothing to her best friend about feeling lonely, unhappy, unliked etc. 

By the way she nevers hides her phone. And never has done. 

So folks thank you for all your input. 

Time for me to work on my marriage, stop being moody and put boundaries in place.


----------



## Rebel81

Rebel81 said:


> Well I managed to get into her phone.
> 
> Looked through her messages, Instagram Facebook and nothing there. Nothing suspicious in her phone log.
> 
> Few messages to this colleague I've been banging on about all the time but all work related. And nothing to her best friend about feeling lonely, unhappy, unliked etc.
> 
> By the way she nevers hides her phone. And never has done.
> 
> So folks thank you for all your input.
> 
> Time for me to work on my marriage, stop being moody and put boundaries in place.


I've asked her to sit down tonight to talk about our future, If any!!


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> I've asked her to sit down tonight to talk about our future, If any!!


That seems like a good idea and a long time coming.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> I've asked her to sit down tonight to talk about our future, If any!!


The key is for you to decide on a consistent tone that you want to set as you address your concerns. The “if any” comment indicates that you are willing to end the marriage if certain things do not happen, and she will ask you about that tonight. It could be a dominant part of the conversation. You should decide before the meeting how to address that. Also, before the meeting, come up with boundaries to discuss that you are willing to enforce. Maybe run some of them by us here on this thread before tonight.

Additionally, be aware that the “if any” comment is a double edged sword that she can use back at you as she elaborates about being lonely in the marriage.


----------



## Evinrude58

When one has a spouse that is doing what she is doing, talking rarely if ever works. OP stays at home with the kids quite regularly while she closes down bars. There’s not a lot to talk about there. Either she stops that or the marriage is over, whether OP allows it or not.

A woman that is happy in her marriage doesn’t do these things, period. A mother doesn’t do these things. In my opinion, OP giving her an ultimatum about the bars after work wouldn’t even fix it. The desire is still there. People do what they want to do.
OP, you need to forget the talking and start building a life without her. I’m sorry, but I don’t think you’ll be married a year from now no matter what you do. You’re the only one that is wanting to be married. Please don’t think this statement is meant to be hurtful. You are earning a living, taking care of your kids, and placing your wife and kids as your first priority because YOU WANT TO. Your wife isn’t. You don’t see it. Your hope and love for your wife is blinding you. I truly wish you well and hope I’ve got it all wrong. 
good luck.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> When one has a spouse that is doing what she is doing, talking rarely if ever works. OP stays at home with the kids quite regularly while she closes down bars. There’s not a lot to talk about there. Either she stops that or the marriage is over, whether OP allows it or not.
> 
> A woman that is happy in her marriage doesn’t do these things, period. A mother doesn’t do these things. In my opinion, OP giving her an ultimatum about the bars after work wouldn’t even fix it. The desire is still there. People do what they want to do.
> OP, you need to forget the talking and start building a life without her. I’m sorry, but I don’t think you’ll be married a year from now no matter what you do. You’re the only one that is wanting to be married. Please don’t think this statement is meant to be hurtful. You are earning a living, taking care of your kids, and placing your wife and kids as your first priority because YOU WANT TO. Your wife isn’t. You don’t see it. Your hope and love for your wife is blinding you. I truly wish you well and hope I’ve got it all wrong.
> good luck.


She is closing down bars regularly? No she is not. She has been out once for a work do, has had 2 bachelorette parties and then one night recently for her bosses going away party. That's it in the last 2 years!! 

Have you been cheated on before??


----------



## Rebel81

TRy said:


> The key is for you to decide on a consistent tone that you want to set as you address your concerns. The “if any” comment indicates that you are willing to end the marriage if certain things do not happen, and she will ask you about that tonight. It could be a dominant part of the conversation. You should decide before the meeting how to address that. Also, before the meeting, come up with boundaries to discuss that you are willing to enforce. Maybe run some of them by us here on this thread before tonight.
> 
> Additionally, be aware that the “if any” comment is a double edged sword that she can use back at you as she elaborates about being lonely in the marriage.


Thank you again.

I certainly won't be using the words "if any".

Who agrees that you can't come home crying at 3am in the morning and never bring it up in the days after. This is why I asked her to talk tonight.

She iniatiated sex the night after the crying, and has been holding hands while watching TV, hugging me and telling me she loves my scent, cuddling in bed. Is that the sign of a lonely wife???

Its a head wreck and very unfair on me.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> She is closing down bars regularly? No she is not. She has been out once for a work do, has had 2 bachelorette parties and then one night recently for her bosses going away party. That's it in the last 2 years!!
> 
> Have you been cheated on before??


So where is your problem?
Heck, sounds like a rare instance of partying it up once a year or so. You hold that against her? Your wife sounds awesome and you’re just being moody and insecure.
She will be fine and not feel so lonely as soon as you fix you.
Good luck.


----------



## TRy

Rebel81 said:


> She is closing down bars regularly? No she is not. She has been out once for a work do, has had 2 bachelorette parties and then one night recently for her bosses going away party. That's it in the last 2 years!!


If that is the case, boundaries such as home before midnight, do not get so drunk that you cannot drive home, and no staying in hotels without you after partying with mostly male coworkers, should be no big deal for her to agree to.


----------



## Rebel81

TRy said:


> If that is the case, boundaries such as home before midnight, do not get so drunk that you cannot drive home, and no staying in hotels without you after partying with mostly male coworkers, should be no big deal for her to agree to.


Well no major improvement to report in this relationship.

Haven't had sex in 4 weeks.

Had a discussion tonight and for the first time in forever, I never apologised. That's a first I reckon.

Thanks Mr Glover.

Still working out in the gym, went to a gig with a buddy last week.

Onwards and upwards.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> I'm not that out of choon with reality - yes it's a matter of time.
> 
> If I or you were going out with sexy females, drinking it up... After a while the inevitable would happen. Its human nature.


She has/is cheating.

It isn’t human nature to cheat. It is poor character and no morals that lead to cheating.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> To date I've like tour advice.
> 
> But I go out with friends and get drunk, without my spouse. As do millions of other couples. But I don't go out with a load or females and get a lift home from them. I also don't go to overnight parties and stay with females. Its her job, I stupidly married her.


Her partying has nothing to do with her job. Her partying has everything to do with her cheating.


----------



## Rebel81

ABHale said:


> Her partying has nothing to do with her job. Her partying has everything to do with her cheating.


So be it. 

I'm improving myself. I'll keep an eye open but I'm focusing on me right now. 

She keeps saying she hates herself, her body etc which she says quite alot. And that's the reason she finds it hard to have sex. 

Yet I know for a fact she masterbates. Maybe she can separate the two, I don't know, I'm not female.


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel81 said:


> She keeps saying she hates herself, her body etc which she says quite alot. And that's the reason she finds it hard to have sex.


----------



## Rebel81

BoSlander said:


>


She has rarely been naked in broad daylight. And if she is, she covers up right away. 

So she does have hang ups about how she looks. 

Funny thing she did the other night after I got frustrated due to no sex. She took all her clothes off (in the dark) and said, come on then, let's have sex. This was done in a very angry tone BTW. Naturally I declined. 

Yesterday she asked if I didn't have sex with her because she put on weight. I call bullsgit on that. 

I've never once made referenece to her weight during our relationship. Last guy she was with used to call her a fat c***.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> Last guy she was with used to call her a fat c***.


If she was with someone that treated her that way, then that was her dysfunction for being with him.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> If she was with someone that treated her that way, then that was her dysfunction for being with him.


Yes thank you.


----------



## farsidejunky

Rebel81 said:


> She has rarely been naked in broad daylight. And if she is, she covers up right away.
> 
> So she does have hang ups about how she looks.
> 
> Funny thing she did the other night after I got frustrated due to no sex. She took all her clothes off (in the dark) and said, come on then, let's have sex. This was done in a very angry tone BTW. Naturally I declined.
> 
> Yesterday she asked if I didn't have sex with her because she put on weight. I call bullsgit on that.
> 
> I've never once made referenece to her weight during our relationship. Last guy she was with used to call her a fat c***.


Your response:

"I have neither the interest, nor the inclination, to compete with your internal dialogue."

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> She has rarely been naked in broad daylight. And if she is, she covers up right away.
> 
> So she does have hang ups about how she looks.
> 
> Funny thing she did the other night after I got frustrated due to no sex. She took all her clothes off (in the dark) and said, come on then, let's have sex. This was done in a very angry tone BTW. Naturally I declined.
> 
> Yesterday she asked if I didn't have sex with her because she put on weight. I call bullsgit on that.
> 
> I've never once made referenece to her weight during our relationship. Last guy she was with used to call her a fat c***.


You should have spanked her saucy ass and taken her. Sheesh.


----------



## Rebel81

ConanHub said:


> You should have spanked her saucy ass and taken her. Sheesh.


He'll no. Not when it's duty sex!!


----------



## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> He'll no. Not when it's duty sex!!


An angry, naked woman saying let's f is an opportunity for a lot more than duty.😉


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ConanHub said:


> An angry, naked woman saying let's f is an opportunity for a lot more than duty.😉


Yeah, that sounded like a missed opportunity to me, lol.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yeah, that sounded like a missed opportunity to me, lol.


Ha maybe, but at the time, I thought screw you(not literally, obviously).


----------



## Rebel81

farsidejunky said:


> Your response:
> 
> "I have neither the interest, nor the inclination, to compete with your internal dialogue."
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Yes. There is no competing. 

She keeps saying she finds me attractive. Then why not any sex?! 

Yes I know. She doesn't find me sexually attractive. Anyway I've stopped whining about it weeks ago.


----------



## Rebel81

Rebel81 said:


> Yes. There is no competing.
> 
> She keeps saying she finds me attractive. Then why not any sex?!
> 
> Yes I know. She doesn't find me sexually attractive. Anyway I've stopped whining about it weeks ago.





BoSlander said:


>


How can you be so sure?


----------



## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> How can you be so sure?


To some extent, body image can affect women and their desire to have sex, however, it's been this barbarian's experience that a woman will drop her drawers and do it in the damn bushes with a man she's hot for regardless of body image issues or really anything else including marriage vows.


----------



## Rebel81

ConanHub said:


> To some extent, body image can affect women and their desire to have sex, however, it's been this barbarian's experience that a woman will drop her drawers and do it in the damn bushes with a man she's hot for regardless of body image issues or really anything else including marriage vows.


I totally agree with you.

She iniatiated twice in the last few months after she went to bachelorette parties. Mustn't have been having body issues that day.

Also, I'm competing with guys daily who I don't even know exist. She works with cops in pretty busy station. Tall, macho, alpha although I've met quite a few and they don't meet that description at all. But they are powerful and have authority.

I can definitely say with my hand I my heart thast I've called her out on her **** recently, that's for sure and I'll continue to do it.


----------



## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> I totally agree with you.
> 
> She iniatiated twice in the last few months after she went to bachelorette parties. Mustn't have been having body issues that day.
> 
> Also, I'm competing with guys daily who I don't even know exist. She works with cops in pretty busy station. Tall, macho, alpha although I've met quite a few and they don't meet that description at all. But they are powerful and have authority.
> 
> I can definitely say with my hand I my heart thast I've called her out on her **** recently, that's for sure and I'll continue to do it.


Why not end your marriage? She obviously isn't that interested except to use you.

She isn't the only woman in the world and maybe you should educate her about that fact?


----------



## Rebel81

ConanHub said:


> Why not end your marriage? She obviously isn't that interested except to use you.
> 
> She isn't the only woman in the world and maybe you should educate her about that fact?


Use me watch our kids and pay half the mortgage? Yes makes sense. 

I'm at thsg stage where I'm not quite sure. Day to day interactions can be quite loving from her side, she will do nice things for me but just not sex really. 

And how you think I should inform her of that without world war 3 unfolding?


----------



## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> Use me watch our kids and pay half the mortgage? Yes makes sense.
> 
> I'm at thsg stage where I'm not quite sure. Day to day interactions can be quite loving from her side, she will do nice things for me but just not sex really.
> 
> And how you think I should inform her of that without world war 3 unfolding?


Grow a spine and look up everything you need to know in your country.

You don't have to keep being a victim and a probable cuckold no matter what you think.

I've learned that men get what they earn. What are you earning right now?

If you are content, quit complaining because men with testosterone and willpower will act decisively.

If all you want to do is complain, you are earning your "reward".


----------



## Rebel81

ConanHub said:


> Grow a spine and look up everything you need to know in your country.
> 
> You don't have to keep being a victim and a probable cuckold no matter what you think.
> 
> I've learned that men get what they earn. What are you earning right now?
> 
> If you are content, quit complaining because men with testosterone and willpower will act decisively.
> 
> If all you want to do is complain, you are earning your "reward".


Point taken. 

This is a forum for me to share my thoughts etc. 

What have I learned to date? I'm a typical nice guy. I've started working on that, really working on it and I now think before I speak when it comes to my wife, friends. colleagues. I ensure that I'm assertive, I stop apologising for **** I should not be apologising for and I'm starting to do my own thing. 

I let her know yesterday that if I had a crystal ball and could have seen that I'd be entering into a sexless marriage, that I may not have went ahead with it. She was shocked at that, couldn't relly believe that sex would be that important. It was a short lived conversation, put it that way.


----------



## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> Point taken.
> 
> This is a forum for me to share my thoughts etc.
> 
> What have I learned to date? I'm a typical nice guy. I've started working on that, really working on it and I now think before I speak when it comes to my wife, friends. colleagues. I ensure that I'm assertive, I stop apologising for **** I should not be apologising for and I'm starting to do my own thing.
> 
> I let her know yesterday that if I had a crystal ball and could have seen that I'd be entering into a sexless marriage, that I may not have went ahead with it. She was shocked at that, couldn't relly believe that sex would be that important. It was a short lived conversation, put it that way.


I'm empathetic to your situation but I stand by my advice.

I'm glad you are working on your "nice guy" problem.

I stopped being a "nice guy" as a child and it has served me well.

Being a good man is a world away from being a nice one.


----------



## Rebel81

ConanHub said:


> I'm empathetic to your situation but I stand by my advice.
> 
> I'm glad you are working on your "nice guy" problem.
> 
> I stopped being a "nice guy" as a child and it has served me well.
> 
> Being a good man is a world away from being a nice one.


Your advice is sound. 

Being a good man is the way forward!


----------



## Evinrude58

It’s not body image, it’s not tiredness, it’s not anything but she isn’t in love with you anymore and doesn’t see you as a romantic partner.
That’s why you should send her packing.

her attitude about sex is quite different with the guy she went to the hotel with.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> It’s not body image, it’s not tiredness, it’s not anything but she isn’t in love with you anymore and doesn’t see you as a romantic partner.
> That’s why you should send her packing.
> 
> her attitude about sex is quite different with the guy she went to the hotel with.


I appreciated your advice so far. 

I'm doing my thing, whether she changes or not is outside of my control. I won't be sitting around doing the pick me dance. 

I need to continue on the NMMNG journey. 

Would love to get some female input on the whole body issue which my wife keeps bringing up.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> She has rarely been naked in broad daylight. And if she is, she covers up right away.
> 
> So she does have hang ups about how she looks.
> 
> Funny thing she did the other night after I got frustrated due to no sex. She took all her clothes off (in the dark) and said, come on then, let's have sex. This was done in a very angry tone BTW. Naturally I declined.
> 
> Yesterday she asked if I didn't have sex with her because she put on weight. I call bullsgit on that.
> 
> I've never once made referenece to her weight during our relationship. Last guy she was with used to call her a fat c***.


This makes no damn sense.

She complains about not having sex then then refuses then ask if it’s because of her weight gain that you don’t have sex. WTF?????

She is lying about something here.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> I totally agree with you.
> 
> She iniatiated twice in the last few months after she went to bachelorette parties. Mustn't have been having body issues that day.
> 
> Also, I'm competing with guys daily who I don't even know exist. She works with cops in pretty busy station. Tall, macho, alpha although I've met quite a few and they don't meet that description at all. But they are powerful and have authority.
> 
> I can definitely say with my hand I my heart thast I've called her out on her **** recently, that's for sure and I'll continue to do it.


Or they had a stripper and she needed a release.


----------



## Rebel81

ABHale said:


> This makes no damn sense.
> 
> She complains about not having sex then then refuses then ask if it’s because of her weight gain that you don’t have sex. WTF?????
> 
> She is lying about something here.


Just to clarify, she never complains about not having sex. 

She "iniatiated" to shut me up. I refused which is rare. Anyways, we all know she really didn't want to have sex. 

Yes, my exact thoughts. She gave the game away when she asked if it's because of her weight. Funny thing is, she hasn't even put on weight, well maybe a few pounds but nothing noticeable. Not the point though. 

She got Caught!!


----------



## Lostinthought61

Rebel whether you realize it or not you are playing a game unfortunately in this game there is no winner. It's an endless bantering between the both of you where she tries to make herself unattractive by her words and her deeds and you try to call her out on it in the end it doesn't resolve anything. Your wife is attracted by other men and she likes that she likes to be attracted by other men even at the point of making yourself unattracted to you. When you give her a compliment it means nothing when another man gives her a compliment of the same words it means everything. She does not have to pursue you so she doesn't and you are begging which is unattractive to her. You refuse to put a line in the Sand in which she crosses your marriage is over so all you have before you is the bankering of words between each other. Instead of her working to save this marriage she put all the onus on you and give you no rewards in return. 

She needs to see something she could potentially lose before her eyes for her to actually step up to the plate and play the game correctly but because you don't she doesn't have to and in so doing this neither of you are going to win.


----------



## ArthurGPym

By this time the marriage is so toxic there is no going back.


----------



## Jimi007

The drunken overnights would have done it for me....I don't know what happened , but I'm sure she does.


----------



## Beach123

Rebel81 said:


> Work gathering at a local bar.
> 
> One of her colleagues was moving to another district and it was a going away party.


So what! Any spouse who values their partner sitting at home waiting for them would hurry up and get home! Your wife is disrespectful to you because you make excuses for her rude behavior to you!
I don’t know one single married couple that treats their spouse this way over the years. Not one. And I’ve known tons of long term healthy marriages.
the successful ones are happy to get home and spend time with their spouse/family.

your wife doesn’t prioritize you at all. Why would you stay in this marriage when she doesn’t look married to you?


----------



## Rebel81

Beach123 said:


> So what! Any spouse who values their partner sitting at home waiting for them would hurry up and get home! Your wife is disrespectful to you because you make excuses for her rude behavior to you!
> I don’t know one single married couple that treats their spouse this way over the years. Not one. And I’ve known tons of long term healthy marriages.
> the successful ones are happy to get home and spend time with their spouse/family.
> 
> your wife doesn’t prioritize you at all. Why would you stay in this marriage when she doesn’t look married to you?


That's an easy answer. I love her. 

LOVE is her fools. 

And to add to that, I'll say what all others say, the kids. One weighs up the options and the one of staying (at least short term) is more comfortable emotionally and financially. 

Long term, that option is not so attractive. 

What another poster said recently really struck a chord. If a hot guy came along, I'm sure her libido would suddenly reappear. 

As it stands, I'm not begging for sex. She was shocked yesterday and looked taken aback by the fact that I said I would have rethought marrying her if I knew there would be so little sex. 

Guys and gals, I'm not stupid. The stuff that comes out of her mouth is laughable at times. 

Anyways, I'm working on myself. That's all I can do and I'll call her out on her BS as it happens.


----------



## Beach123

It won’t matter that you call her out on her terrible behavior - she knows you won’t change a thing. 
and the fact that you won’t change a thing means things will remain the same.
You may “love her” but at what cost? This doesn’t look like a balanced love - you sacrifice yourself and she gives herself to others outside your marriage.

it’s sad, at best. Love doesn’t look like this. It’s a convenience - so you don’t have to make any changes - that’s what it looks like. You settled.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ABHale said:


> Or they had a stripper and she needed a release.


Or she screwed another guy and needed a sex date to line up with hubby. Don't work so well to get knocked up and have not had sex with hubby any time close to them.


----------



## gameopoly5

Rebel81 said:


> Hi Guys and gals.
> 
> I'll try and keep this short and to the point but sometimes a bit of context is needed.
> 
> One of my wife's male colleagues caused issues in our relationship a few years ago as she would not stop talking about him and how great he was. He even offered to take me out for a drink to tell me how great she was. He was and is married by the way. These things on their own weren't too concerning but what was concerning at the time was this.
> 
> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!
> 
> My wife was at a retirement function for another colleague 3 weeks ago. This was in the same town she works in. She assumed I didn't want to go as I don't really like her work dos, which is a fair point. She also didn't exactly invite me but fair is fair.
> 
> Anyhow, she said she would book a room in the hotel where the function was on. A taxi home would have cost 60 euro, whereas the hotel cost 50 euro. I also offered to collect her (25 minute drive) but she said it would be too late in the morning.
> 
> My gut told me to check her phone the other day. I've only done this once and that was after she told me about the Xmas party 5 years ago. Low and behold, she had an outgoing call at 12am to one of her male colleagues at the retirement function. The same colleague she drove to the Xmas party with all those years ago and who caused me to distrust her. I have never heard him been mentioned in the last 5 years. She also had 6 missed calls from him just before she made that outgoing call.
> 
> My gut is screaming at me, telling me that something is not right.
> 
> I'd appreciate anybodys input or thoughts


I wouldn`t be happy with my wife driving off into the sunset or night with some other dude.
Considering (you say) you`ve no evidence your wife is cheating although there are red flags smacking you in your face, you need to grow a pair and lay down boundaries.
Tell her if she wants to party and be socially involved with people that does not involve you, then give your wife a choice, she either starts behaving like a married women or can leave, do whatever she wants with whoever she wants.
But my gut feelings tells me, you`re not man enough to do that.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

OP knows she's cheating. No way not to know. For some reason basks in it like a badge of honor.

Oh well each to their own.


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel81 said:


> That's an easy answer. I love her.
> 
> LOVE is her fools.
> 
> And to add to that, I'll say what all others say, the kids. One weighs up the options and the one of staying (at least short term) is more comfortable emotionally and financially.
> 
> Long term, that option is not so attractive.
> 
> What another poster said recently really struck a chord. If a hot guy came along, I'm sure her libido would suddenly reappear.
> 
> As it stands, I'm not begging for sex. She was shocked yesterday and looked taken aback by the fact that I said I would have rethought marrying her if I knew there would be so little sex.
> 
> Guys and gals, I'm not stupid. The stuff that comes out of her mouth is laughable at times.
> 
> Anyways, I'm working on myself. That's all I can do and I'll call her out on her BS as it happens.


You've been given superb advise as to how to proceed. It's OBVIOUS to everyone she is begging you for divorce papers. Right now, she is sabotaging all facets of the relationship and (surprise motherf-cking surprise!) she's always going to go about life in ways that put her in control of the situation.

To me it sounds as though she's attempting to money-branch into another relationship but she's too physically unappealing for others to make a move. AND, you're the poor schmuck inheriting all her frustrations.

Put down boundaries and discuss them with her. If she shows even an ephemeral hint of rejection, start working on the 180 and take control of your life. Once the 180 is complete, re-evaluate.


----------



## BoSlander

gameopoly5 said:


> I wouldn`t be happy with my wife driving off into the sunset or night with some other dude.
> Considering (you say) you`ve no evidence your wife is cheating although there are red flags smacking you in your face, you need to grow a pair and lay down boundaries.
> Tell her if she wants to party and be socially involved with people that does not involve you, then give your wife a choice, she either starts behaving like a married women or can leave, do whatever she wants with whoever she wants.
> But my gut feelings tells me, you`re not man enough to do that.


I kind of believe the guy on it. In workplaces where adultery is prevalent, these cheating animals go as far as developing a best-practices routine that they then share with everybody else who shows interest. Take my wife for example: she works in a school and has the computer literacy of a 5 year old. Yet, when cheating, she was a pro. She never EVER spoke with anyone while driving from and to work, use her iPhone to contact the OM, was a PRO at hiding/encrypting/deleting chats and were probably having sex during their lunch hour and during the 15-minute before/after school open. The only thing that got her busted was because she got careless and met up with the OM at a café overseas. I kind of suspect, at that point, she wanted to get caught actually.

It's very difficult to catch them in the act unless they hire a PI. They literally have other coworkers teach them how to cheat and get away with it.


----------



## gameopoly5

Except for our children and parents if they are good parents, never love anybody more than you love yourself.
Never let people think you need them more than they need you. I learned this lesson from so-called friends in the past and if believing you need them more than they need you including friends and spouses, these people can hold you at emotional ransom.
Remember this; all of us should command the respect we feel we deserve and are treated the way we allow ourselves to be treated. 
In my case I consider myself as a person of value and an achiever. No one is ever going to treat me like a dumb sap.
This is why I have no sympathy for people like the OP, whether they be husbands or wives. 
The long and suffering who expect others to feel pity for them because they are codependent on someone that treats them like crap, have low confidence in themselves and looking for advice with responses they probably prefer not to hear, which is the reality and the hard truth.


----------



## Evinrude58

Yes divorce is financially horrible, and getting robbed of tine with your kids is miserable.
But so is coming home every day from work to a place you are not loved, are disrespected, and are forced to feel less than a man. You’re also missing out on being with someone who would treasure you. Feels a lot different.
Your only choice is to get rid of her and feel awful for a few months to a couple of years, or do the same indefinitely.

Let’s face it, you know and we know that she’s never going to be a wife any man would want, she’s never going to find a man that will tolerate the bull **** that she shovels. And make no mistake, she’ll try and shovel it on them, too. Few will take it. You shouldn’t either.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> She "iniatiated" to shut me up. I refused which is rare. Anyways, we all know she really didn't want to have sex.


I get where the other guys are coming from when they said you should have done it, but in this instance I agree with you and think you did the right thing in telling her to ****** off. 

When you reach Level 5 Alpha Status you can start fcking the anger out of chicks. But for now I think setting a standard of mutually wanted warm and loving sex is appropriate as is maintaining boundaries of not falling for her manipulations.

If Conan's wife tried to pull that with him. he could likely bang the anger out of her and turn it around into a mutually satisfying experience because she already has a baseline level of respect and desire for him and he would be able to maintain frame and know what buttons to push to transition it from anger to passion. 

Anger and passion can be closely related emotions in some women but if you do not know how to navigate from anger to passion and you don't know how to maintain your own frame, instead of it turning into a hot sexual encounter that defuses the bomb, you may end up getting stabbed with a kitchen knife. 

When you've become an Alpha Stud and have gained the confidence and control to maintain frame and can guide a situation from anger to passion, you can start dabbling in anger sex. 

But until then, setting standards and expectations for a mutually consensual and mutually satisfying marital sex life is a better starting point and maintaining boundaries of not being manipulated into settling for less is a more appropriate place to be right now.


----------



## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> Use me watch our kids and pay half the mortgage? Yes makes sense.


But aren't you already doing those things now? 

I am not saying you should or should not divorce either way at the moment, but rather pointing out that you are already watching the kids while she parties with other men and are already paying on the mortgage, and you have nothing to show for it now. 

If you divorce, you'd be free to live your own life and do your own things and would be able to date and likely find someone that was actually attracted to you at some point. 

And if she wanted you to watch the kids when it was her custodial day and she wanted to go out with some other guy, you tell her to hire a damn babysitter like every other single mom.


----------



## So far so good

Reading through your story, my advice will probably not be popular with TAM… it happens.

I suggest you to be decisive in what you want to do. Pick a path and follow it. If you believe your wife is cheating, go the D route. If you don’t know if she’s cheating but you know you can’t be happy with her, D her.

If *you don’t think she’s cheating*, you love her and you believe your marriage can be repaired, then work towards it. Book a getaway weekend with her, sit down with her and let her talk. Don’t interrupt and deny what she says, just listen. Then figure out how, as a spouse, how you can help her. Then ask her to listen, tell her your grievances and work with her on a compromise. Marriage counseling could be a good idea too.

We, men are like hunters. “Need food. Me go hunt. There’s a deer. Me kill it. Me eat”. There’s no “hmmm should I pick this one or maybe I’ll find a better one later? Am I hungry really?Maybe pick berries instead”.

Leave your wife, or stay in your marriage and support her. Pick a path and follow it.


----------



## oldshirt

So far so good said:


> If *you don’t think she’s cheating*, you love her and you believe your marriage can be repaired, then work towards it. Book a getaway weekend with her, sit down with her and let her talk. Don’t interrupt and deny what she says, just listen. Then figure out how, as a spouse, how you can help her. Then ask her to listen, tell her your grievances and work with her on a compromise. Marriage counseling could be a good idea too.


I agree with your general message and the rest of you post. 

This particular section however I must add a couple caveats. 

For a man, this above is huge energy suck and stress and strain outside of a guy's typical comfort zone and wheelehouse. But meanwhile it is feeding her female ego and making the demon inside of her grow bigger and stronger. It's basically an energy and mojo vampire sucking his life force while feeding her dragon. 

It is probably the right thing to do *IF *she is in fact NOT cheating and not unduly attracted to another man(s). 

I think it is incumbent on him to make a sincere effort and due diligence effort to do an honest investigation into whether she is cheating or not before he puts in that kind of time and energy into trying to reconciling this relationship. 

I think there are enough red flags and enough preponderance of the evidence here that he has probably cause to conduct investigation do determine whether she is or is not cheating. 

If he does all that and she is in fact cheating, he has just drained his own life force and mojo while feeding her ego and her sense of centrality which will make him even weaker in her eyes and make him even more of the chump. 

Right now he is staying with her because he has convinced himself she is not cheating and does not have the hots for another man(s). 

But he has done nothing to find out whether she is cheating or not. 

He needs to do that before he commits to either saving or dissolving the marriage.


----------



## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> I agree with your general message and the rest of you post.
> 
> This particular section however I must add a couple caveats.
> 
> For a man, this above is huge energy suck and stress and strain outside of a guy's typical comfort zone and wheelehouse. But meanwhile it is feeding her female ego and making the demon inside of her grow bigger and stronger. It's basically an energy and mojo vampire sucking his life force while feeding her dragon.
> 
> It is probably the right thing to do *IF *she is in fact NOT cheating and not unduly attracted to another man(s).
> 
> I think it is incumbent on him to make a sincere effort and due diligence effort to do an honest investigation into whether she is cheating or not before he puts in that kind of time and energy into trying to reconciling this relationship.
> 
> I think there are enough red flags and enough preponderance of the evidence here that he has probably cause to conduct investigation do determine whether she is or is not cheating.
> 
> If he does all that and she is in fact cheating, he has just drained his own life force and mojo while feeding her ego and her sense of centrality which will make him even weaker in her eyes and make him even more of the chump.
> 
> Right now he is staying with her because he has convinced himself she is not cheating and does not have the hots for another man(s).
> 
> But he has done nothing to find out whether she is cheating or not.
> 
> He needs to do that before he commits to either saving or dissolving the marriage.


Thanks for all the comments. Couldn't reply to all of them, but this one needs a reply 

Yes, if I'm to invest and risk to small self worth I've left, I'd like to get some kind of prrof that she is not currently cheating. That I will do. Thanks man. 

She sent me a Web link today. "what causes low sex drive in women" usual stuff there, hormones, stress depression, relationship and communication issues. Nothing in there about body issues or having the hots for another man. 

Later today, she was in bed feeling down, tired. Went in to her and hugged her. Ended up french kissing but had to go and meet a friend. Great right. 

Lying on the couch all cosy with her. She has just gone to bed, and no, I can't follow her up. I wouldn't even try to iniatiate at this stage. The rejection to date is unbearable. 

Is it me, or is she a p**** tease?!!!!


----------



## Evinrude58

Dude, this is your wife. You shouldn’t be asking these questions. Dump her


----------



## Tron

So she handed you a list of all the reasons she doesn't want to have sex with you? I'd throw that crap back in her face, tell her you're sick of all the excuses and bull****. Then tell her there are tons of other women out there who like sex on the regular and that maybe you should just go out and get one to cover the sex part of the relationship.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Rebel81 said:


> That's an easy answer. I love her.
> 
> LOVE is her fools.
> 
> And to add to that, I'll say what all others say, the kids. One weighs up the options and the one of staying (at least short term) is more comfortable emotionally and financially.
> 
> Long term, that option is not so attractive.
> 
> What another poster said recently really struck a chord. If a hot guy came along, I'm sure her libido would suddenly reappear.
> 
> As it stands, I'm not begging for sex. She was shocked yesterday and looked taken aback by the fact that I said I would have rethought marrying her if I knew there would be so little sex.
> 
> Guys and gals, I'm not stupid. The stuff that comes out of her mouth is laughable at times.
> 
> Anyways, I'm working on myself. That's all I can do and I'll call her out on her BS as it happens.


Now, just what do you love? Fill me in as I see no reason from your posts that you should or could love her. Am I missing something?


----------



## Rebel81

Tron said:


> So she handed you a list of all the reasons she doesn't want to have sex with you? I'd throw that crap back in her face, tell her you're sick of all the excuses and bull****. Then tell her there are tons of other women out there who like sex on the regular and that maybe you should just go out and get one to cover the sex part of the relationship.


We ended up being intimate but I'd need a crystal ball to know for sure if and when she is open to the idea!!


----------



## BoSlander

Tron said:


> So she handed you a list of all the reasons she doesn't want to have sex with you? I'd throw that crap back in her face, tell her you're sick of all the excuses and bull****. Then tell her there are tons of other women out there who like sex on the regular and that maybe you should just go out and get one to cover the sex part of the relationship.


I’m telling you, it’s f-cking torture. These kind of shenanigans are only intended to get the man to tap out. There’re surely things she can take to get her libido up, but “strangely” chooses not to.

Dude, divorce the human garbage and get yourself a proper female!


----------



## SunCMars

Beach123 said:


> This doesn’t look like a balanced love - you sacrifice yourself and she gives herself to others outside your marriage.


Yes.

While she may not be giving herself sexually to her team mates, she certainly gives a lot of her time and attention, to include, those feel-good emotions, to/with them.

She is intimate with them, at least so, emotionally.
This is a given.

I am not convinced she has had sex with that OM, or another.

On the other hand, I am not convinced that she hasn't.

We all need to be sure of our mates fidelity.
OP, (Rebel81) does not have this comforting surety.

When she spent time in a hotel room (only sleeping?) with another man, not her husband, that alone is divorce worthy.
The optics alone, demand that.

Especially since she lied (by omission) about it.

And, she later changed her story, as to what happened that night.

She is a careless, carefree wife, and an overly unreasonable partner.

I cannot say she is a horrible person, but can say she is not wife material.
Much of it due to her career choice.

The rest because she is a selfish lover.


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> Yes.
> 
> While she may not be giving herself sexually to her team mates, she certainly gives a lot of her time and attention, to include, those feel-good emotions, to/with them.
> 
> She is intimate with them, at least so, emotionally.
> This is a given.
> 
> I am not convinced she has had sex with that OM, or another.
> 
> On the other hand, I am not convinced that she hasn't.
> 
> We all need to be sure of our mates fidelity.
> OP, (Rebel81) does not have this comforting surety.
> 
> When she spent time in a hotel room (only sleeping?) with another man, not her husband, that alone is divorce worthy.
> The optics alone, demand that.
> 
> Especially since she lied (by omission) about it.
> 
> And, she later changed her story, as to what happened that night.
> 
> She is a careless, carefree wife, and an overly unreasonable partner.
> 
> I cannot say she is a horrible person, but can say she is not wife material.
> Much of it due to her career choice.
> 
> The rest because she is a selfish lover.


Just to clarify, I never said she slept in a hotel room with a colleague. She went to an overnight staff party and failed to say that she was driving with the OM. When I say driving I mean a 3 hour journey each way. She then told me about it and said she didn't want to say it as I would be hurt, upset whatever. She was right. **** behaviour on her part? That's an understatement. 

They do get all her time, whether they are male or female colleagues. They are basically her family. 

And no, she is certainly not a horrrible person, I assure you that. A selfish lover? If you mean in the physical sense, 100%.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> She went to an overnight staff party and failed to say that she was driving with the OM. When I say driving I mean a 3 hour journey each way. She then told me about it and said she didn't want to say it as I would be hurt, upset whatever.


Was this a professional conference?
I would hope so. Who the hell has an "Overnight staff party?" Sounds shady AF to me.
Given the history, she couldn't have found another ride, if her attendance was so vitally important.
So her solution is to lie by omission and catch a ride with the "Dude" in question?
This stinks to High Heaven.
You need to get gnarly on this one.
Study up on and implement the 180. She needs the true "Dry ice" experience.
See what shakes out. Meanwhile, plan for the worst.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Was this a professional conference?
> I would hope so. Who the hell has an "Overnight staff party?" Sounds shady AF to me.
> Given the history, she couldn't have found another ride, if her attendance was so vitally important.
> So her solution is to lie by omission and catch a ride with the "Dude" in question?
> This stinks to High Heaven.
> You need to get gnarly on this one.
> Study up on and implement the 180. She needs the true "Dry ice" experience.
> See what shakes out. Meanwhile, plan for the worst.


This was 6 years ago, and nope not a conference. 

Cops have overnight staff parties as they don't party in their own patch for obvious reasons. 

He caught a ride with her. She didn't want to say no and tell him that her bf would be pissed so just decided to lie by ommision.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel, 
Are you happy?

Nobody can help you if you’re not willing to make some changes. You do everything you can to keep your wife happy and make her life easier. But you’re also making her comfortable, while she’s causing you misery.
No reason for her to change. Big question is— does she want to?
I think you said she doesn’t come straight home from work a lot..... am I remembering that correctly?


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Rebel,
> Are you happy?
> 
> Nobody can help you if you’re not willing to make some changes. You do everything you can to keep your wife happy and make her life easier. But you’re also making her comfortable, while she’s causing you misery.
> No reason for her to change. Big question is— does she want to?
> I think you said she doesn’t come straight home from work a lot..... am I remembering that correctly?


I'm happier than I was 2 months ago. That's simply because I started working out, doing IC and started calling her out on her **** when it happens, and not whining about it.

I could be a lot happier. As it stands, we had sex last night, she spoke before that about her general anxiety and said she needs me. She spent most of the day in bed. I think she is very unstable. Her job doesn't help in the slightest. 

There are many times she doesn't come home for a few hours after. Makes sense because not only is she a cop, she's a detective. I wouldn't rule out anything else.


----------



## Evinrude58

I think the more you work out and start doing things that builds a life that you enjoy, The better off you will be so that one day you can stop accepting all this. Unreasonable behavior is what it is. The reasons/excuses don’t make it easier to constantly accept.

You say you love her. You do your part to demonstrate that by supporting her and taking care of the kids when she’s working late or takes out of town drinking excursions without you, with other men from time to time.

You are the responsible parent. It sounds like you’re parenting her too.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> This was 6 years ago, and nope not a conference.
> 
> Cops have overnight staff parties as they don't party in their own patch for obvious reasons.
> 
> He caught a ride with her. She didn't want to say no and tell him that her bf would be pissed so just decided to lie by ommision.


Must be some wild assed parties then.
I have friends that are LEO's, and none of them ever take a 6 hour round trip for a party venue.
Does she seriously not realize that the deception from the omission was probably more damaging than her just being upfront and volunteering that she was going to give "Biff" a ride?
After the initial event, were there any boundaries established between her and this guy, or even these parties in general?
Sounds like she lacks any kind of consideration towards you, or your relationship in general.
You need to step up the scrutiny, accountability and consequences for her, and she needs to feel them.
She needs to be rattled enough that she slips up and the truth comes out.
Going on offense is your best play right now.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Must be some wild assed parties then.
> I have friends that are LEO's, and none of them ever take a 6 hour round trip for a party venue.
> Does she seriously not realize that the deception from the omission was probably more damaging than her just being upfront and volunteering that she was going to give "Biff" a ride?
> After the initial event, were there any boundaries established between her and this guy, or even these parties in general?
> Sounds like she lacks any kind of consideration towards you, or your relationship in general.
> You need to step up the scrutiny, accountability and consequences for her, and she needs to feel them.
> She needs to be rattled enough that she slips up and the truth comes out.
> Going on offense is your best play right now.


You're right, it did cause damage to our relationship. It ruined our Xmas. But the big part is a lost a huge amount of trust in her. She thought it wasn't such a big deal, lying by omission. I told her it wasn't acceptable to do **** like that. Her response was an angry outburst. And wait for it, tears. Yes I know I know.

She told me that she would stop engaging with him as its the right thing to do. I. E. If something is affecting our relationship , she would stop doing it. Maybe she did for a few years, but I know they text now and again, from what I could see.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> There are many times she doesn't come home for a few hours after. Makes sense because not only is she a cop, she's a detective. I wouldn't rule out anything else.


You either need to be available to follow her on one of these "Wind down after work" sessions, or arrange for someone who can do so and shoot some video for you.
I predict doing so may tell you all you need to know.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> I think the more you work out and start doing things that builds a life that you enjoy, The better off you will be so that one day you can stop accepting all this. Unreasonable behavior is what it is. The reasons/excuses don’t make it easier to constantly accept.
> 
> You say you love her. You do your part to demonstrate that by supporting her and taking care of the kids when she’s working late or takes out of town drinking excursions without you, with other men from time to time.
> 
> You are the responsible parent. It sounds like you’re parenting her too.


It's my clear intention to continue working out as it makes me feel stronger, look stronger and be more assertive with **** behaviour. 

I almost hesitatedto have ses with her as I'm not sure how long I have to wait until the next time. After week 2 to 3, I get antzy!! 

I do all that as does she on her days off, but I'm taking for granted at this stage. She thinks it's a normal routine we have when it totally isn't.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> But the big part is a lost a huge amount of trust in her.


This sentence really is key.
The question that you need to ask both yourself and her is what has she done to earn it back?


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> You either need to be available to follow her on one of these "Wind down after work" sessions, or arrange for someone who can do so and shoot some video for you.
> I predict doing so may tell you all you need to know.


I appreciate tour comment and agree with most of it, but these aren't necessarily wind down excursions. She works in a field where if **** goes down, she has to deal with it. It's her job. 

I had to clarify rcebetly that these nights out with colleagues are very rare, so rare that they happened twice this year so far.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> I appreciate tour comment and agree with most of it, but these aren't necessarily wind down excursions. She works in a field where if **** goes down, she has to deal with it. It's her job.
> 
> I had to clarify rcebetly that these nights out with colleagues are very rare, so rare that they happened twice this year so far.


1.Does she ever call you if she "Catches a case" beyond hours to let you know she will be late?
2.If she goes on one of these colleague sessions after work, does she call to let you know when she will be home , and where they are meeting?

In the case of #1, do you have a source or method to verify if she is really "On the job?" If not, you may want to cultivate one.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> You're right, it did cause damage to our relationship. It ruined our Xmas. But the big part is a lost a huge amount of trust in her. She thought it wasn't such a big deal, lying by omission. I* told her it wasn't acceptable to do **** like that. Her response was an angry outburst. And wait for it, tears. Yes I know I know.*
> 
> She told me that she would stop engaging with him as its the right thing to do. I. E. If something is affecting our relationship , she would stop doing it. Maybe she did for a few years, but I know they text now and again, from what I could see.


Classic DARVO.

she told you she’d stop engaging with him. Well, she lies and has no problem with lying. She’s still engaging.
you know this.

You know that your wife isn’t trustworthy.
A reasonable boundary at this point would be no more overnight or late night parties with “the guys”. I suspect you couldn’t enforce it because you’d fall victim to the tears and fear of no sex and because she’s accustomed to getting her way in all things, even when unreasonable.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> 1.Does she ever call you if she "Catches a case" beyond hours to let you know she will be late?
> 2.If she goes on one of these colleague sessions after work, does she call to let you know when she will be home , and where they are meeting?
> 
> In the case of #1, do you have a source or method to verify if she is really "On the job?" If not, you may want to cultivate one.


Yes she does let me know. It's rare, maybe once every month on average and it's usually a weekend when most **** takes place. 

I would often see a news article which would confirm something did go down in the area she covers. 

On #2, yes she does tell me weeks in advance and also tells me where they are going. The most recent gathering, she asked me if I would be available to collect her if she were unable to get a ride. I text her a couple. Of times between 11pm and 1am and no reply. She hadn't read the message u til 2am.she then said she is getting a lift home for a work colleague. I can verify that and another colleague and his wife were also in the car. Told her again that what she did was ****, kept me awake until 2am wondering if I was collecting her or not. She said you know how it is when you get drunk. Bla bla bla.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> On #2, yes she does tell me weeks in advance and also tells me where they are going. The most recent gathering, she asked me if I would be available to collect her if she were unable to get a ride. I text her a couple. Of times between 11pm and 1am and no reply. She hadn't read the message u til 2am.she then said she is getting a lift home for a work colleague. I can verify that and another colleague and his wife were also in the car. Told her again that what she did was ****, kept me awake until 2am wondering if I was collecting her or not. She said you know how it is when you get drunk. Bla bla bla.


Again that is shady AF, with a side order of s****y.
Next event, arrange to have a mate there with a camera phone to: 1) see if they actually show and 2) record all the action.
She could be just selfish, self-centered and inconsiderate, but I'd almost bet these events would be an eye opener in many regards. 
If there was a way you could capture audio, now, that would be just so special.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> Yes she does let me know. It's rare, maybe once every month on average and it's usually a weekend when most **** takes place.
> 
> I would often see a news article which would confirm something did go down in the area she covers.
> 
> On #2, yes she does tell me weeks in advance and also tells me where they are going. The most recent gathering, she asked me if I would be available to collect her if she were unable to get a ride. I text her a couple. Of times between 11pm and 1am and no reply. She hadn't read the message u til 2am.she then said she is getting a lift home for a work colleague. I can verify that and another colleague and his wife were also in the car. Told her again that what she did was ****, kept me awake until 2am wondering if I was collecting her or not. She said you know how it is when you get drunk. Bla bla bla.


This is not the behavior of a married, grown woman with kids at home.
Just sayin. 
I like how she refers to the parties and other men as “work colleagues”.
I’m going to the after hours, office get together in another town and riding to and from with a colleague. We are going to be collaborating really late, so we are staying in a hotel. Tootles hun, take good care of the kids.. 😖


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> Just to clarify, I never said she slept in a hotel room with a colleague. She went to an overnight staff party and failed to say that she was driving with the OM. When I say driving I mean a 3 hour journey each way. She then told me about it and said she didn't want to say it as I would be hurt, upset whatever. She was right. **** behaviour on her part? That's an understatement.
> 
> They do get all her time, whether they are male or female colleagues. They are basically her family.
> 
> And no, she is certainly not a horrrible person, I assure you that. A selfish lover? If you mean in the physical sense, 100%.


I likely have mixed up TAM stories, where the wife went to a (whatever) party and stayed overnight, saying she slept in the same bed as the OM, but that another woman was also present, and she slept between her and the OM?? 

And, the story changed sometime later?


----------



## leftfield

Rebel81 said:


> Yes she does let me know. It's rare, maybe once every month on average and it's usually a weekend when most **** takes place.
> 
> I would often see a news article which would confirm something did go down in the area she covers.
> 
> On #2, yes she does tell me weeks in advance and also tells me where they are going. The most recent gathering, she asked me if I would be available to collect her if she were unable to get a ride. I text her a couple. Of times between 11pm and 1am and no reply. She hadn't read the message u til 2am.she then said she is getting a lift home for a work colleague. I can verify that and another colleague and his wife were also in the car. Told her again that what she did was ****, kept me awake until 2am wondering if I was collecting her or not. She said you know how it is when you get drunk. Bla bla bla.


Are you really telling us that your detective wife has a planned work functions that keeps her busy until 2 AM? Really? Why would anyone believe that? 

You need to ask her some questions about these gathering. I think you will quickly learn that she is blowing smoke up your rear end.


----------



## Jimi007

SunCMars said:


> I likely have mixed up TAM stories, where the wife went to a (whatever) party and stayed overnight, saying she slept in the same bed as the OM, but that another woman was also present, and she slept between her and the OM??
> 
> And, the story changed sometime later?


Yes...wrong thread


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Again that is shady AF, with a side order of s****y.
> Next event, arrange to have a mate there with a camera phone to: 1) see if they actually show and 2) record all the action.
> She could be just selfish, self-centered and inconsiderate, but I'd almost bet these events would be an eye opener in many regards.
> If there was a way you could capture audio, now, that would be just so special.


Next event is a trip abroad, and I'm going 😬


----------



## Rebel81

leftfield said:


> Are you really telling us that your detective wife has a planned work functions that keeps her busy until 2 AM? Really? Why would anyone believe that?
> 
> You need to ask her some questions about these gathering. I think you will quickly learn that she is blowing smoke up your rear end.


They aren't functions, they are what we call a piss up.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Again that is shady AF, with a side order of s****
> 
> 
> Evinrude58 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not the behavior of a married, grown woman with kids at home.
> Just sayin.
> I like how she refers to the parties and other men as “work colleagues”.
> I’m going to the after hours, office get together in another town and riding to and from with a colleague. We are going to be collaborating really late, so we are staying in a hotel. Tootles hun, take good care of the kids.. 😖
> 
> 
> 
> I mean fair enough, go out but don't stay out until 2 o clock drunk, keeping me awake when I'm up with the kids at 7am.
> 
> To think of my own mom. She would never do such a thing and never did.
Click to expand...


----------



## Rebel81

I mean fair enough, go out but don't stay out until 2 o clock drunk, keeping me awake when I'm up with the kids at 7am.

To think of my own mom. She would never do such a thing and never did.


----------



## Evinrude58

No wife that has any desire to stay married does that Rebel. Why can’t you see that?
That is single woman behavior, and honestly, few single women do that either. Getting really drunk with a bunch of men late at night in a different town while having a hotel room?

your wife has kids at home. Most mothers want to be a mother. They worry even when there is nothing to worry about.

I’m not trying to rile you up. I’m just hoping you understand that your feelings about your wife’s behavior are a pretty normal reaction. 
That’s over. But what isn’t over is that you and her don’t seem to have a romantic relationship to the point that you don’t even know when you might have sex in the future.

Nobody can say if she cheated. But if there’s a time that all the sex stopped and it coincided with this work party or whatever, it might be that she did have an affair and lost romantic feelings toward you at that point. And often, those romantic feelings don’t return and the betrayed spouse is stuck with what you have.


----------



## *Deidre*

Rebel81 said:


> I'm happier than I was 2 months ago. That's simply because I started working out, doing IC and started calling her out on her **** when it happens, and not whining about it.
> 
> I could be a lot happier. As it stands, we had sex last night, she spoke before that about her general anxiety and said she needs me. She spent most of the day in bed. I think she is very unstable. Her job doesn't help in the slightest.
> 
> There are many times she doesn't come home for a few hours after. Makes sense because not only is she a cop, she's a detective. I wouldn't rule out anything else.


You're ''calling her out,'' but had sex with her. That tells her that she doesn't need to be accountable...she can keep treating you like this, and sex will make it seem like everything is fine.

I think you know what you need to do, but it's hard to leave someone you love. However, you deserve better. You need to believe that you're better than this. When you believe that, you won't take it anymore.

One day at a time, I guess...


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Next event is a trip abroad, and I'm going 😬


If you are still together by then, you need to be there with bells on.
I understand you are abroad, and I am looking at this through the filter of what is normal in the USA; however, all of this so beyond the pale that it is stunning.
These have to be a bunch of people who have just decided that they are going to go out of town (or the country) to "let loose."
Any law enforcement organization that would truly sanction such shenanigans has to be beyond the standard of grossly unprofessional.
If you make it till then, go, keep your mouth shut and watch.
It is the looks and non verbals that you want to focus on.
I'm sure that if there are spouses in attendance, this will be the "G" or "PG" rated version, put on to allow all the spouses that sat at home during the true debauchery to see that all is as pure as the driven snow.
Rebel, you seem like a nice guy and I hope for your sake that there is nothing treacherous going on here.
However, the whole scenario as you have outlined it doesn't smell well.
You need to take charge of your situation.
Boundaries need to be set, and norms of behavior need to be developed. Then you hold her to them.
She needs to be home directly after shift.
She doesn't go hanging out with "The guys" unless you are present.
She doesn't go our, get smashed, and come home smashed (especially when you are up waiting for her.)
If she is a Mom, she needs to come home and assume her role.
She needs to do whatever is required to make you feel safe in the relationship.
If she can't do that, you need to cut her loose so she can go do her thing, and you can get the kind of woman that you deserve.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> I mean fair enough, go out but don't stay out until 2 o clock drunk, keeping me awake when I'm up with the kids at 7am.
> 
> To think of my own mom. She would never do such a thing and never did.


Of course not because your mother grew up and accepted her role, and the responsibilities that came with it.


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel81… Brutal honesty needed: Has your wife either asked you to wear a condom as a pre requisite to having sex and have you noticed a pungent smell coming from her lady parts? Reason I’m asking is twofold: 1) many females seem to purposely stop having unprotected sex with their husbands as a subconscious sign of distancing from their primary (provider) relationship in the hopes that the other male impregnates her and 2) getting double-dïcked often culminates is a nasty case of a yeast infection.


----------



## Rebel81

BoSlander said:


> Rebel81… Brutal honesty needed: Has your wife either asked you to wear a condom as a pre requisite to having sex and have you noticed a pungent smell coming from her lady parts? Reason I’m asking is twofold: 1) many females seem to purposely stop having unprotected sex with their husbands as a subconscious sign of distancing from their primary (provider) relationship in the hopes that the other male impregnates her and 2) getting double-dïcked often culminates is a nasty case of a yeast infection.


No she hasnt
She has a coil inside here so we have unprotected sex all the time. No smell either I'm afraod. 

Update
After getting in so well, she came from. Work this evening at 7.30 and decided to give out that the burger we had made for dinner want not good enough. We could have mad emore of an effort. Perhaps, but I have a full time job, had to drop the kids to school, work, collect them at 6, do schoolwork with my son. Most days when I make dinner, she doesn't want it because she has a sore tummy or **** knows! This **** is ridiculous 😩


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> If you are still together by then, you need to be there with bells on.
> I understand you are abroad, and I am looking at this through the filter of what is normal in the USA; however, all of this so beyond the pale that it is stunning.
> These have to be a bunch of people who have just decided that they are going to go out of town (or the country) to "let loose."
> Any law enforcement organization that would truly sanction such shenanigans has to be beyond the standard of grossly unprofessional.
> If you make it till then, go, keep your mouth shut and watch.
> It is the looks and non verbals that you want to focus on.
> I'm sure that if there are spouses in attendance, this will be the "G" or "PG" rated version, put on to allow all the spouses that sat at home during the true debauchery to see that all is as pure as the driven snow.
> Rebel, you seem like a nice guy and I hope for your sake that there is nothing treacherous going on here.
> However, the whole scenario as you have outlined it doesn't smell well.
> You need to take charge of your situation.
> Boundaries need to be set, and norms of behavior need to be developed. Then you hold her to them.
> She needs to be home directly after shift.
> She doesn't go hanging out with "The guys" unless you are present.
> She doesn't go our, get smashed, and come home smashed (especially when you are up waiting for her.)
> If she is a Mom, she needs to come home and assume her role.
> She needs to do whatever is required to make you feel safe in the relationship.
> If she can't do that, you need to cut her loose so she can go do her thing, and you can get the kind of woman that you deserve.


We will be together, it's in a couple fo weeks. Cops drink until 6 or 7am. Think ill have a few drinks and then hit the water. Keep my eyes peeled. I've been to these before and wouldnt say they are pgs, maybe a 15 rating. 

I am a good guy, thank you. 

Progress is being made, and she isn't taking too kindly to getting some home truths.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> No wife that has any desire to stay married does that Rebel. Why can’t you see that?
> That is single woman behavior, and honestly, few single women do that either. Getting really drunk with a bunch of men late at night in a different town while having a hotel room?
> 
> your wife has kids at home. Most mothers want to be a mother. They worry even when there is nothing to worry about.
> 
> I’m not trying to rile you up. I’m just hoping you understand that your feelings about your wife’s behavior are a pretty normal reaction.
> That’s over. But what isn’t over is that you and her don’t seem to have a romantic relationship to the point that you don’t even know when you might have sex in the future.


I see it alright. And it's always helpful to know that others think I'm not crazy. She gaslit the **** out of me back when she went on that overnight party with the OM. Her angry outburst, her tears. Makes me so angry!!


----------



## Evinrude58

Little things like griping about supper can be fixed. Desire to go out drinking until 6am with the guys—— not so much, I got that over with by 21 or 22. Still never stayed out past 2am or so. 

I can’t imagine a typical mom/wife and your bride having a lot in common.

I’ll say this: kudos to her if she can stay out until 6am drinking and partying. That’s impressive. Seems like a good opportunity coming up to leave her with the buds, come back when she’s drunk and lay back and observe. Or are you scared to do that?


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Little things like griping about supper can be fixed. Desire to go out drinking until 6am with the guys—— not so much, I got that over with by 21 or 22. Still never stayed out past 2am or so.
> 
> I can’t imagine a typical mom/wife and your bride having a lot in common.
> 
> I’ll say this: kudos to her if she can stay out until 6am drinking and partying. That’s impressive. Seems like a good opportunity coming up to leave her with the buds, come back when she’s drunk and lay back and observe. Or are you scared to do that?


Me too. 2am is my cut off like my most of my friends and colleagues. Even that's too late lol. 

No I'm not afraid. I need to be relatively sober, it's almost my one opportunity. Don't think the OM is going but I hope to **** he is 😬


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Yes she does let me know. It's rare, maybe once every month on average and it's usually a weekend when most **** takes place.
> 
> I would often see a news article which would confirm something did go down in the area she covers.
> 
> On #2, yes she does tell me weeks in advance and also tells me where they are going. The most recent gathering, she asked me if I would be available to collect her if she were unable to get a ride. I text her a couple. Of times between 11pm and 1am and no reply. She hadn't read the message u til 2am.she then said she is getting a lift home for a work colleague. I can verify that and another colleague and his wife were also in the car. Told her again that what she did was ****, kept me awake until 2am wondering if I was collecting her or not. She said you know how it is when you get drunk. Bla bla bla.


Even if you take the possibility of cheating out of the equation this is total ****ty behavior on her part. Very disrespectful to put you on the hook only to get a ride home anyway. After an hour of no contact I would have been loading the kids in the car and went looking for my wife for fear that something happened to her. And then getting drunk is her excuse?! WTF? Forget the cheating, the problem is your wife sees you as a tool or an appliance.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Even if you take the possibility of cheating out of the equation this is total ****ty behavior on her part. Very disrespectful to put you on the hook only to get a ride home anyway. After an hour of no contact I would have been loading the kids in the car and went looking for my wife for fear that something happened to her. And then getting drunk is her excuse?! WTF? Forget the cheating, the problem is your wife sees you as a tool or an appliance.


"You know how it is when drinking" she said. 

Now I've been drinking before, and I have a lift arranged. Either my wife is collecting me or someone else. There is no uncertainty. And if she were to collect me, it might take me ten minutes to leave the bar. That's how is is. Not 3 hours later!!


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> "You know how it is when drinking" she said.
> 
> Now I've been drinking before, and I have a lift arranged. Either my wife is collecting me or someone else. There is no uncertainty. And if she were to collect me, it might take me ten minutes to leave the bar. That's how is is. Not 3 hours later!!


bud, just started reading your posts - and I did all the reading at once. based on what you wrote and replied. your wife was physical with someone else. but you keep masking the fact or pretend it didnt happen.


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> bud, just started reading your posts - and I did all the reading at once. based on what you wrote and replied. your wife was physical with someone else. but you keep masking the fact or pretend it didnt happen.


Thanks for your opinion. 

At this stage, I don't wanna know. Might sound crazy. 

But reading NMMNG, working out, playing more sports and hanging out with buddies and doing things with my kids, that's my priority right now. I'm looking out for me. 

As for my wife, I met with my therapist today. He put out there that perhaps I should stop trying. In essence, stop doing the pick me dance. Stop iniatiating sex. See how it plays out. This is my new objective.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Little things like griping about supper can be fixed. Desire to go out drinking until 6am with the guys—— not so much, I got that over with by 21 or 22. Still never stayed out past 2am or so.
> 
> I can’t imagine a typical mom/wife and your bride having a lot in common.
> 
> I’ll say this: kudos to her if she can stay out until 6am drinking and partying. That’s impressive. Seems like a good opportunity coming up to leave her with the buds, come back when she’s drunk and lay back and observe. Or are you scared to do that?


What are the chances of putting a VAR in my detective wife's car and not getting caught? If I did get caught, it would be a serious breach of trust and could mean divorce.


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> bud, just started reading your posts - and I did all the reading at once. based on what you wrote and replied. your wife was physical with someone else. but you keep masking the fact or pretend it didnt happen.


You're probably right, but which part stood out most?


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> What are the chances of putting a VAR in my detective wife's car and not getting caught? If I did get caught, it would be a serious breach of trust and could mean divorce.


Lol so what? That’s what you need anyway.
Damn Reb,
Taking another man on an out of town drinking binge and staying at a hotel isn’t a serious breach of trust?

dude. I mean...., dude....


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Lol so what? That’s what you need anyway.


LOL. 

Let's not rule it out yet.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Lol so what? That’s what you need anyway.
> Damn Reb,
> Taking another man on an out of town drinking binge and staying at a hotel isn’t a serious breach of trust?
> 
> dude. I mean...., dude....


Never heard such a truer statement. Thanks for the confirmation.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> As for my wife, I met with my therapist today. He put out there that perhaps I should stop trying. In essence, stop doing the pick me dance. Stop iniatiating sex. See how it plays out. This is my new objective.


Like I said before (I think) applying the 180 couldn't hurt, and might actually be helpful for you either way.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Like I said before (I think) applying the 180 couldn't hurt, and might actually be helpful for you either way.


What makes me doubt that is if, big if, she hasn't cheated, but really hates her body etc, that that is the cause of the sex part. 

As for the other parts, 180 makes complete sense.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> You're probably right, but which part stood out most?


 hitting my head on my desk 

everything stood up - dude, dear lord


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> hitting my head on my desk
> 
> everything stood up - dude, dear lord


Listen, you need to first understand how cops, especially Irish cops conduct themselves when off duty. They have parties, always out of town, and they stay the night. This is a fact.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> Listen, you need to first understand how cops, especially Irish cops conduct themselves when off duty. They have parties, always out of town, and they stay the night. This is a fact.


dude i was in the law enforcement and I know how it works and I know how to works in the European countries. Because my two best friends in Ireland and London are cops.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> What are the chances of putting a VAR in my detective wife's car and not getting caught? If I did get caught, it would be a serious breach of trust and could mean divorce.


Hard to say.
How much access do you have to her car?
Is it a department car, or a personal vehicle?
I wouldn't worry about a breach of trust with her.
What has she done to earn it, after all?


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Hard to say.
> How much access do you have to her car?
> Is it a department car, or a personal vehicle?
> I wouldn't worry about a breach of trust with her.
> What has she done to earn it, after all?


Full access. Its her own personal car and I drive it sometimes.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Full access. Its her own personal car and I drive it sometimes.


Go for it then.
Just make sure that it is out of sight and properly secured (zipties and/or velcro.)
Make sure that the headphone jack has a plug in it so there is no chance of the unit beeping or tipping her off.


----------



## Evinrude58

So she’s a chunky Irish cop that is never home and engages in exceptionally shady behavior with another make cop you can’t stand and know he’s interested as does she, and she is unstable and depressed often.

Do you feel she is the only woman in the world for you? And if so, why?

I think it’s important to consider alternative directions when the one you’re currently taking isn’t making you happy.

Your wife’s profession and how she conducts herself after work—- doesn’t seem like it would be appealing to any man.

But in reality, she could solve a lot of your problems and hers by making some pretty easy changes. It just doesn’t seem like you’re worth it to her to do so.

One huge positive I see—- you’re going to the next work party out of town with her. I’m surprised at that and can say with only slight hesitation that you going with her is a good sign she’s not got a work honey. Because if she did, she would NOT want you there at all costs.

You’re needing some info because you rightly don’t trust her. The VAR is a good idea. Most of the time I don’t think it’s a good idea for someone to listen in on private conversations because it’s really easy to hear things that are disturbing, even when they aren’t that bad. But in your case, I think listening to her true thoughts will help you whether it be cutting her loose or possibly developing some trust And putting this behind you. You might even consider texting her some questions about the past work stuff after the VAR is present and getting it on her mind and seeing if she discusses it with a friend and get some truth that will settle your mind or set you free.


----------



## BoSlander

Friend, your issue is always going to be this: she works in a field putrid with cases of adultery, so much so it's probably "accepted." They probably have a best-practices protocol that they pass around and rest assured they WILL back each other up. It's like a mafia-imposed code of silence you WILL NOT be given access to.

The reason I say this is because I just went through something eerily similar as you, although the only difference is that my XW worked in the education field (which is also rotten to the core with adultery cases). My XW did MANY things that were unlike her and that I KNOW were acquired knowledge. For example, she was as computer illiterate as a skunk, yet, she knew the ins and outs of an iPhone better than anyone I know. She knew how to completely delete chats, hide pictures behind audio files, chat via google docs, etc. Moreover, even though she used to talk on the phone in the car all the time, when travelling during, to and from work, she ALWAYS kept mute. ALWAYS. The part that irked me the most was how little she spoke of her co workers... like she purposely compartmentalized both work and home and made it a point to never mix the two, like *NEVER*. I would ask her about work and her responses were always vague. She would never bring our son to work either... even when it was "bring your kids to work day."

So, for me, it was a game of patience. I knew she had a burner phone so my goal was to get my hands on it but... I failed because I'm pretty sure she was leaving it at work. It was complete silence for months on end... we would barely have sex and she'd leave in the morning smelling like a Macy's catalog, wearing a Victoria's Secrets thong. Even the days I knew something may be going on, I would time the chats she would send me and then I'd respond 45 minutes later to ensure she was reachable. Then... 10 minutes later, her iPhone? Untraceable for like an hour. I'd call the school main office phone #, ask to speak with her and they'd tell me she's in with a kid doing an evaluation, even though our car (a Tesla) was parked in a completely different spot.

What did her in was the fact that she was unable to use the burner phone overseas, and she was sending (what I now know was) sexual innuendo via the iPhone.

So, to make a long story short, hang in there, try as many things as you can yourself (monitoring) and if you're unable to get anywhere, get a friend to shadow these cop bastards.

Patience is key.


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> it would be a serious breach of trust and could mean divorce


You mean like her going out with guys to all hours and getting ****-faced? THAT type of serious breach of trust?
Look she hasn't given you any reason TO trust her -- the trust is already gone, so I wouldn't worry about it....
IF of course you want to know what is going on.
You SHOULD get a PI or have someone follow her for a while....


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> At this stage, I don't wanna know. Might sound crazy.


It would be better if you no longer cared.

Indifference, is key.

That way, the required, year-long separation and eventual divorce would be much easier.

Her job has likely hardened her, and she has lost faith (and that love) of humanity.
Which, includes you.

She is just another burn-out.

She finds comfort in her co-worker, those same journey-mates.
Her work camaraderie, trumps any love found at home.


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> Listen, you need to first understand how cops, especially Irish cops conduct themselves when off duty. They have parties, always out of town, and they stay the night. This is a fact.


Of course we (now) understand.

What we do not understand, is your willingness to stay married to her.

Make her a divorced cop.
Which most are, or will become.

Then, she will fit her occupation like a barrel key does..
The barrel part slips over a pin.


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> It would be better if you no longer cared.
> 
> Indifference, is key.
> 
> That way, the required, year-long separation and eventual divorce would be much easier.
> 
> Her job has likely hardened her, and she has lost faith (and that love) of humanity.
> Which, includes you.
> 
> She is just another burn-out.
> 
> She finds comfort in her co-worker, those same journey-mates.
> Her work camaraderie, trumps any love found at home.


Unfortunately you are right. 

She is tough, too tough almost that it hides her feminine side. 

And yes, she knows and has told me that they are all brothers.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> So she’s a chunky Irish cop that is never home and engages in exceptionally shady behavior with another make cop you can’t stand and know he’s interested as does she, and she is unstable and depressed often.
> 
> Do you feel she is the only woman in the world for you? And if so, why?
> 
> I think it’s important to consider alternative directions when the one you’re currently taking isn’t making you happy.
> 
> Your wife’s profession and how she conducts herself after work—- doesn’t seem like it would be appealing to any man.
> 
> But in reality, she could solve a lot of your problems and hers by making some pretty easy changes. It just doesn’t seem like you’re worth it to her to do so.
> 
> One huge positive I see—- you’re going to the next work party out of town with her. I’m surprised at that and can say with only slight hesitation that you going with her is a good sign she’s not got a work honey. Because if she did, she would NOT want you there at all costs.
> 
> You’re needing some info because you rightly don’t trust her. The VAR is a good idea. Most of the time I don’t think it’s a good idea for someone to listen in on private conversations because it’s really easy to hear things that are disturbing, even when they aren’t that bad. But in your case, I think listening to her true thoughts will help you whether it be cutting her loose or possibly developing some trust And putting this behind you. You might even consider texting her some questions about the past work stuff after the VAR is present and getting it on her mind and seeing if she discusses it with a friend and get some truth that will settle your mind or set you free.


She is a beautiful looking woman who is a cop, plays a big part in her life.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall advice. Let's see how this trip goes and I'll report back.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> I mean fair enough, go out but don't stay out until 2 o clock drunk, keeping me awake when I'm up with the kids at 7am.
> 
> To think of my own mom. She would never do such a thing and never did.


Let what you have said here sink in.


----------



## Rebel81

ABHale said:


> Let what you have said here sink in.


Yes sir. I see it. 

My brain keeps making excuses because of the nature of her job and what's expected. If this was a previous relationship, I would have been out of there in a flash! Stupidly became accustomed to their way of life!!


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Yes sir. I see it.
> 
> My brain keeps making excuses because of the nature of her job and what's expected. If this was a previous relationship, I would have been out of there in a flash! Stupidly became accustomed to their way of life!!


Just curious, do you know if she works with any other married female cops that do all the same things she does?


----------



## Evinrude58

It’s such a shame. You do love your wife. You’ve ignored all kinds of pain she’s inflicted because of your love for her.
She is not recognizing that she loves he job and palling around with the guys more than she cares about her family. I really think that OP’s love for her is not balanced by her feelings for him. Regardless of whether she’s cheated or not, there’s a huge thing in between these two and it’s always going to be there, because she has no desire to ever change.
This relationship will never be fulfilling to Reb.
I hate it for him.


----------



## harperlee

Evinrude58 said:


> This relationship will never be fulfilling to Reb.
> I hate it for him.


You are wrong. It is fulfilling to Rebel; he wouldn't be there if it wasn't. He picked her.
Perhaps things have come to a point that he is changing, wants a life more stable, wants sincere love.
He picked her for a reason and is still there, when he gets tired, he will leave.


----------



## SunCMars

If this marriage makes it to retirement, he may then, have a wife, and not a room mate.

At that later date, alas, her sex drive and sexual interest may ebb, and flow into the cold Irish Sea.

Leave and be lost, never to return. 
Not that it was ever present, mind you!

I see no upside, soon; gods, later, it will likely be even more bleak.

She may sport boobs, but her badge keeps them under wraps, under arrest, likely, under duress.
Under her uniform they lie, flattened and cold, with her rarely wearing a revealing dress.


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel81 said:


> What makes me doubt that is if, big if, she hasn't cheated, but really hates her body etc, that that is the cause of the sex part.
> 
> As for the other parts, 180 makes complete sense.


Bud, “because I hate my body” is a euphemism, similar to “I have a headache.”

Stop excusing her behavior and start the 180.


----------



## Rebel81

BoSlander said:


> Bud, “because I hate my body” is a euphemism, similar to “I have a headache.”
> 
> Stop excusing her behavior and start the 180.


I'm guessing it can in some cases, but she genuinely is self conscious about her body. Always has been. Don't know why, as most guys would give her at least an 8 out of 10


----------



## ArthurGPym

At the very least she has lost sexual attraction towards you.


----------



## Evinrude58

People that want to have sex with their spouse—- have sex. Regardless of situation. People had sex in the middle of wars with bombs falling


----------



## Rebel81

ArthurGPym said:


> At the very least she has lost sexual attraction towards you.


Thanks for the reminder lol


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Just curious, do you know if she works with any other married female cops that do all the same things she does?


She does work with married female cops. Many of them are also single. 

I actually don't know what they do or how they behave.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> People that want to have sex with their spouse—- have sex. Regardless of situation. People had sex in the middle of wars with bombs falling


Yes its a simple thing to do and it's ****ing free!!


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> It’s such a shame. You do love your wife. You’ve ignored all kinds of pain she’s inflicted because of your love for her.
> She is not recognizing that she loves he job and palling around with the guys more than she cares about her family. I really think that OP’s love for her is not balanced by her feelings for him. Regardless of whether she’s cheated or not, there’s a huge thing in between these two and it’s always going to be there, because she has no desire to ever change.
> This relationship will never be fulfilling to Reb.
> I hate it for him.


Thanks @Evinrude58

You summed it up in this post. It will never be fulfilling, who am I trying to kid.

I've made changes, I've gone to therapy because I thought it would benefit me. I'm always coming up with new things to do in my life, whether it's working out, learning new things, whatever, you get the vibe.

She is happy to plod along, no sex and knows it kills me and is such a good liar when it comes to giving me the reasons her sex drive is so low. Oh I'm too fat, I hate my belly, I hate my legs, I hate these new wrinkles on my face. Oh, but I have a vibrator and I use it at least once or twice a week. And I have my work buds for the male connection. I have kids and you love them and are happy to mind them.

Advice please... Is it time to really really focus on NMMNG or is a 180 any good to me here. I do notice when I pull back she comes looking. It even happened in the last couple of days.


----------



## Openminded

She doesn’t want a divorce so whenever you seem distant she may correct her behavior in the short-term but long-term that’s unlikely.


----------



## ArthurGPym

If you are not going to split with her then your only option is to create a life within a life. Start making friends and doing things that make you happy outside the confines of the marriage. Stop doing nice things for her. Stop telling her you love her. Do the 180. Thats to start. If she won’t invest in the marriage then why should you?


----------



## Rebel81

ArthurGPym said:


> If you are not going to split with her then your only option is to create a life within a life. Start making friends and doing things that make you happy outside the confines of the marriage. Stop doing nice things for her. Stop telling her you love her. Do the 180. Thats to start. If she won’t invest in the marriage then why should you?


You couldn't be anymore right. Like alot of guys, I've discussed the sexual side of our relationship so many times and the best she could do was send me this article. 









My Wife Has No Desire for Sex. What Can I Do to Get Our Sex Lives Back on Track?


Regular sex can support good health, decrease physical pain, help partners build trust and intimacy, and so much more.1 For these and other reasons, regardless of gender, it can be difficult when one partner wants more sex or has a more active sex drive than the other. A low sex




www.choosingtherapy.com





I asked her (out of curiously and to see was she bluffing again) which ones applied to her and she said pretty much all of them. That's all I needed to know right there.


----------



## Evinrude58

Do you have kids with her or does she have kids from a previous marriage?


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Do you have kids with her or does she have kids from a previous marriage?


Kids together and she has a son from a previous relationship


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> *I'm guessing it can in some cases, but *she genuinely is self conscious about her body. *Always has been. Don't know why, as most guys would give her at least an 8 out of 10


More the reason to love hearing the opposite from a POSOM
Players play/prey on a woman's insecurities. 

Ah, so says *she, to y'all.

It is just another excuse to not be intimate with you.
*She knows* you love and admire her body.
A lame excuse, a cold dame excuse.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> She is happy to plod along, no sex and knows it kills me and is such a good liar when it comes to giving me the reasons her sex drive is so low. Oh I'm too fat, I hate my belly, I hate my legs, I hate these new wrinkles on my face. Oh, but I have a vibrator and I use it at least once or twice a week. And I have my work buds for the male connection. I have kids and you love them and are happy to mind them.


If your kid brother or your best friend described their relationship with their wife using this paragraph, what would you advise them to do?


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> If your kid brother or your best friend described their relationship with their wife using this paragraph, what would you advise them to do?


Work on changing it and if nothing changes, leave


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks @Evinrude58
> 
> 
> Advice please... Is it time to really really focus on NMMNG or is a 180 any good to me here. I do notice when I pull back she comes looking. It even happened in the last couple of days.


Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Are you nuts?
I certainly hope not.
Many of us here have told you in multiple posts that you need to do something.
The 180 is probably the best possible move that you can make at this point.
It will give you some clarity, and it should empower you because it will put her on defense.
Frankly what you should do is get your affairs sorted, lawyer up, and have her served.
Then tell her that if she wants to save the marriage, the onus is on her to do so.
That would require that she accept the duties of being a wife and mother.
That would require that she start spending time with you and your kids, and doing things as a family.
That would require that you take charge of the dynamics of the situation and force her to eat your dust, instead of you playing second fiddle in compliance with her agenda.
Sometimes you need to break it to fix it.
I'd say you are about at that point.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Work on changing it and if nothing changes, leave


As long as she keeps getting what she wants, what is the motivation to change?
You have to change the dynamics of things.
She needs to get less of what she desires, and needs to be made to step up if she wants the entire package.
She will do the minimum unless forced to up her game.


----------



## Prodigal

Rebel81 said:


> She is happy to plod along, no sex and *knows it kills me* and is such a good liar when it comes to giving me the reasons her sex drive is so low. Oh I'm too fat, I hate my belly, I hate my legs, I hate these new wrinkles on my face. Oh, *but I have a vibrator and I use it at least once or twice a week*. And *I have my work buds for the male connection.* I have kids and you love them and are happy to mind them.


The level of disrespect your wife shows you ^^here^^ is mind boggling. Do the 180, but do it for YOU, not to save this farce of a "marriage." Kick her ass to the curb and reclaim your life!


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> s it time to really really focus on NMMNG or is a 180 any good to me here. I do notice when I pull back she comes looking. It even happened in the last couple of days.


You should do BOTH. NMMNG is for YOU -- not her. To keep YOU from being taken advantage of.
The 180 is also for you -- but NOT to punish her. It is to help you detach from her.

As for her feeling fat, etc. ask her if that fellow cop thinks the same thing....


----------



## BoSlander

Rebel81 Have you ever heard of “paralysis by analysis”? That’s you. 28 pages of opinions, advise and recommendations.

Now is time for you to DO something.

Her attitude is her attitude in part because she knows her loyal lap dog is going to be there when she gets home in a drunker stupor.

What are YOU going to do? It obviously bothers you.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Yes she does let me know. It's rare, maybe once every month on average and it's usually a weekend when most **** takes place.
> 
> I would often see a news article which would confirm something did go down in the area she covers.
> 
> On #2, yes she does tell me weeks in advance and also tells me where they are going. The most recent gathering, she asked me if I would be available to collect her if she were unable to get a ride. I text her a couple. Of times between 11pm and 1am and no reply. She hadn't read the message u til 2am.she then said she is getting a lift home for a work colleague. I can verify that and another colleague and his wife were also in the car. Told her again that what she did was ****, kept me awake until 2am wondering if I was collecting her or not. She said you know how it is when you get drunk. Bla bla bla.


She is totally disrespectful to you. She wants to keep you separate from the guys it seems. Why? Why are you not going with her to these parties? Why would you let her go to a bar and drink with a bunch of testosterone fueled guys and you stay at home? Are you hoping she has hookups so you can divorce her on it? Sounds like it...


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I mean fair enough, go out but don't stay out until 2 o clock drunk, keeping me awake when I'm up with the kids at 7am.
> 
> To think of my own mom. She would never do such a thing and never did.


She has kids at home, neither of you have any business being out till 2am getting drunk!


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> What are the chances of putting a VAR in my detective wife's car and not getting caught? If I did get caught, it would be a serious breach of trust and could mean divorce.


Her actions are already a serious breech of trusts!


----------



## Andy1001

@Rebel81 are you scared of leaving your wife and do you fear any repercussions from her buddies in the Irish Gardai?
As corrupt police forces go they’re up there with the best.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Listen, you need to first understand how cops, especially Irish cops conduct themselves when off duty. They have parties, always out of town, and they stay the night. This is a fact.


Then why are you not with her at these parties! She needs to arrange a sitter for kids.


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> You should do BOTH. NMMNG is for YOU -- not her. To keep YOU from being taken advantage of.
> The 180 is also for you -- but NOT to punish her. It is to help you detach from her.
> 
> As for her feeling fat, etc. ask her if that fellow cop thinks the same thing....


Thanks for your input man. 

I'm definitely doing NMMNG. Not sue about the 180 yet.


----------



## Rebel81

Andy1001 said:


> @Rebel81 are you scared of leaving your wife and do you fear any repercussions from her buddies in the Irish Gardai?
> As corrupt police forces go they’re up there with the best.


I'm afraid to leave her in case it's the wrong thing to do for me or my kids. Too early to tell. 

No im not afraid of them. Not in the slightest lol


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> You should do BOTH. NMMNG is for YOU -- not her. To keep YOU from being taken advantage of.
> The 180 is also for you -- but NOT to punish her. It is to help you detach from her.
> 
> As for her feeling fat, etc. ask her if that fellow cop thinks the same thing....


Ya she doesn't feel fat. I know that deep down. The gut always knows. 

If she doesnt want me, I'll eventually leave and find somebody who does.


----------



## Rebel81

So tomorrow, its off to this foreign cop party for a few days. 

Let's see what happens...


----------



## DudeInProgress

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for the reminder lol


It should be a ****ing wake up call, and an impetus for action.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> So tomorrow, its off to this foreign cop party for a few days.
> 
> Let's see what happens...


I think that after this you will have a pretty good read of what is going on.
The interaction and non verbals should tell much.
How is she prefacing the event with you? That should provide you with some feedback, as well.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> So tomorrow, its off to this foreign cop party for a few days.
> 
> Let's see what happens...


Hey @Rebel81 How did everything go?


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Hey @Rebel81 How did everything go?


It was a great mini holiday. Nothing whatsoever to report. 

In fact I got hit on by one of her female colleagues, naturally I declined.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> It was a great mini holiday. Nothing whatsoever to report.
> 
> In fact I got hit on by one of her female colleagues, naturally I declined.


Lol, just a little ironic. But good news too.


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> It was a great mini holiday. Nothing whatsoever to report.
> 
> In fact I got hit on by one of her female colleagues, naturally I declined.


That should tell you what goes on. If you were hit on while she was also on attendance, imagine what goes on when you're not there.


----------



## Rebel81

Rob_1 said:


> That should tell you what goes on. If you were hit on while she was also on attendance, imagine what goes on when you're not there.


I disagree. Have you ever been to a late bar or club? 

This colleague is known to hit on other husbands. She is a single woman and naturally lacks morals.


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> I disagree. Have you ever been to a late bar or club?
> 
> This colleague is known to hit on other husbands. She is a single woman and naturally lacks morals.


If you say so.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> It was a great mini holiday. Nothing whatsoever to report.
> 
> In fact I got hit on by one of her female colleagues, naturally I declined.


How did Mrs. Rebel treat you?
Did she go off for "Sidebar" convos?


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> How did Mrs. Rebel treat you?
> Did she go off for "Sidebar" convos?


She treated me like I was her husband, and was with the group all the time. No sidebar convoys except for a few occasions where she spoke with some female colleagues. Totally normal, she isn't physically attached to me after all. 

We also had fun in the bathtub.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> She treated me like I was her husband, and was with the group all the time. No sidebar convoys except for a few occasions where she spoke with some female colleagues. Totally normal, she isn't physically attached to me after all.
> 
> We also had fun in the bathtub.


Interesting........


----------



## Rebel81

Me thinks you are being sarcastic? If not, I'd appreciate if you could elaborate


----------



## oldshirt

Rob_1 said:


> That should tell you what goes on. If you were hit on while she was also on attendance, imagine what goes on when you're not there.





Rebel81 said:


> I disagree. Have you ever been to a late bar or club?
> 
> This colleague is known to hit on other husbands. She is a single woman and naturally lacks morals.


what @Rob_1 was trying to tell you went right over your head.

what he was saying is that is the company that she keeps and the kind of people that she is partying with, then that is what is going on at those gatherings.

it means people are approaching married people and approaching people that they know are their coworkers spouses.

if this coworker is approaching another coworker’s spouse while her coworker is right there, just imagine what is taking place with your wife when you are not there.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Me thinks you are being sarcastic? If not, I'd appreciate if you could elaborate


No, I have absolutely no reason to be sarcastic.
I'm assuming that this is the same group she hangs with.
I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that the guy that you have reservations about was there.
However, their was no dialogue, wayward looks, or anything between them?
How was her drinking? Minimal or excessive?
You said that there was one of her associates that came on to you?
Was she in one of the sidebar conversations that your wife was involved in?
If so, did the sidebar occur prior to her making her move?
How did your wife react to that?
I ask because is it possible that you were being tested?
Sounds like your wife was attentive to you on the trip, which is great.
I'm just trying to piece together whether this was typical behavior or you got a "Sanitized" version (like I thought you might get.) Somehow, I just expected more of an "Animal House" vibe from your previous descriptions.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> No, I have absolutely no reason to be sarcastic.
> I'm assuming that this is the same group she hangs with.
> I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that the guy that you have reservations about was there.
> However, their was no dialogue, wayward looks, or anything between them?
> How was her drinking? Minimal or excessive?
> You said that there was one of her associates that came on to you?
> Was she in one of the sidebar conversations that your wife was involved in?
> If so, did the sidebar occur prior to her making her move?
> How did your wife react to that?
> I ask because is it possible that you were being tested?
> Sounds like your wife was attentive to you on the trip, which is great.
> I'm just trying to piece together whether this was typical behavior or you got a "Sanitized" version (like I thought you might get.) Somehow, I just expected more of an "Animal House" vibe from your previous descriptions.


Just for the record, this lady in question told my wife that I was handsome and asked her if she realised how good looking I was. This isn't a friend of my wife's, just a colleague. All cops no each other even if they don't work side by side. 

I definitely don't think it was a test. 

Since we've come back, there has been a lot more physical intimacy from her. Not so much sex, but genuine intimacy. Still miles away from where I wantus to be. 

According to my therapist, I'm a classic Co dependant. So time for Mr Nice guy to put his plans into action.


----------



## Landofblue

Was the male colleague she drove with to the other event at this one? If so how did they interact?


----------



## Rebel81

Landofblue said:


> Was the male colleague she drove with to the other event at this one? If so how did they interact?


No he wasn't at this event at all.

I met my wife 6 months after breaking up with a woman I had been with for 6 years. Why the hell didn't I stay single for a while, have some fun etc without any commitment to anybody. Cos I'm a codependant, Mr. Nice guy. 

Alot of work to do on my end, which is kind of daunting.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> It was a great mini holiday. Nothing whatsoever to report.
> 
> In fact I got hit on by one of her female colleagues, naturally I declined.


Curious why one of her colleagues hit on you. Especially with everything that is going on. 🤔

I have caught up with the thread. I still think this was a test. You know quite a bit about what was said between them. What was your wife’s response when you told her that the other cop hit on you?


----------



## Rebel81

ABHale said:


> Curious why one of her colleagues hit on you. Especially with everything that is going on. 🤔
> 
> I have caught up with the thread. I still think this was a test. You know quite a bit about what was said between them. What was your wife’s response when you told her that the other cop hit on you?


They don't work side by side, but know of each other through the job. 

This colleague isn't a 10 BTW, id say more a 5 or 6. My wife is an 8. My wife laughed when I told her, said she trusts me and what this other woman did was pathetic, knowing that my wife was close by 🙄

I know my wife, I don't think it was a test.


----------



## manwithnoname

Rebel81 said:


> They don't work side by side, but know of each other through the job.
> 
> This colleague isn't a 10 BTW, id say more a 5 or 6. My wife is an 8. My wife laughed when I told her, said she trusts me and what this other woman did was pathetic, knowing that my wife was close by 🙄
> 
> I know my wife, I don't think it was a test.


It was pathetic because your wife was close by. If the other colleague was there and you weren’t close by……


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> They don't work side by side, but know of each other through the job.
> 
> This colleague isn't a 10 BTW, id say more a 5 or 6. My wife is an 8. My wife laughed when I told her, said she trusts me and what this other woman did was pathetic, knowing that my wife was close by 🙄
> 
> I know my wife, I don't think it was a test.


If it was a test, she is saying “I trust you, why can’t you trust me”.

You are taking to much for granted in what you think you know about your wife. If you knew everything that you believe, you wouldn’t be here at the moment.

It wouldn’t have been hard for your wife to put the other girl up to hitting on you as a joke between them on you. Just so she could say why can’t you trust me like I do you. It doesn’t matter what a girl looks like when it comes to cheating.


----------



## Rebel81

ABHale said:


> If it was a test, she is saying “I trust you, why can’t you trust me”.
> 
> You are taking to much for granted in what you think you know about your wife. If you knew everything that you believe, you wouldn’t be here at the moment.
> 
> It wouldn’t have been hard for your wife to put the other girl up to hitting on you as a joke between them on you. Just so she could say why can’t you trust me like I do you. It doesn’t matter what a girl looks like when it comes to cheating.


I get it, all I can do is go on my hunch on this one. 

I know my wife 10 years, I've never seen her play tricks. She barely knows this other woman. There were at least another 15 woman at this event, some of which are friends of my wife, some are just associates. 

Yes I'm here, for a reason. I'm trying to eliminate certain things.


----------



## Rebel81

Rebel81 said:


> I get it, all I can do is go on my hunch on this one.
> 
> I know my wife 10 years, I've never seen her play tricks. She barely knows this other woman. There were at least another 15 woman at this event, some of which are friends of my wife, some are just associates.
> 
> Yes I'm here, for a reason. I'm trying to eliminate certain things.


Would love to get some female input?


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Rebel81 said:


> Would love to get some female input?


Not a female but I have a question. What does it matter if it was a test or not?
Other than being a nasty thing to do.

Why spend all this time speculating about it, what would happen if it was? Or wasn't?

And you wouldn't find evidence of the test anyway, so you're left playing 'what if'.


----------



## Rebel81

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Not a female but I have a question. What does it matter if it was a test or not?
> Other than being a nasty thing to do.
> 
> Why spend all this time speculating about it, what would happen if it was? Or wasn't?
> 
> And you wouldn't find evidence of the test anyway, so you're left playing 'what if'.


It doesn't matter to me. 

I just don't get other posters questioning every single thing. I mean surely, there are some things in life that are just genuine and real.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rebel81 said:


> I know my wife 10 years, I've never seen her play tricks.


 Your whole first post contradicts your statement of "knowing my wife" and her not playing tricks.
That is said quite often by guys who are cluelessly being cheated on.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> She went to a Xmas party a few years ago which was in a different county. It was a 3 hour drive. She told me she was driving up herself as she wanted to leave early the next morning and didn’t want to be waiting on her colleagues following a night of drink. No problem, suit yourself. So she came home the next day and after I came home from work, she said she wanted to get intimate later that night. Pre planning never happens from her side as she never really iniatiates. Anyway, through conversation it came out that after their night at the bar/club they all went back to one of her other male colleague’s hotel bedroom to have more drink, as the bar was closed. Apparently all her colleagues were there, who are all married. Mostly guys but one or two females too. She then tells me that she didn't actually drive up alone but had collected her work colleague, the same guy who caused issues in our relationship, and they drove up to the city where the xmas night out was being held. She also dropped him home the next day. For me, I became suspicious straight away. We spoke and she became angry that I would even insinuate that something was going on between them. I insinuated nothing, I was just bothered as to why she omitted the fact. We eventually forgot about it and moved on and I didn't hear any more about him again, until now!





Rebel81 said:


> I know my wife 10 years, I've never seen her play tricks.



This is your wife playing a trick.


----------



## Rebel81

ABHale said:


> This is your wife playing a trick.


Nobody knows what the truth is. If it were true, then **** my life!


----------



## plastow

Rebel81 said:


> That's the point. That is not proof. She could make any old excuse up regarding those calls.
> 
> She told me the reason she didn't tell me about driving with him to the party beforehand was that I would get paranoid. No ****!!


so she lied to you about taking him ,just how many other lies has she told you.


----------



## Rebel81

plastow said:


> so she lied to you about taking him ,just how many other lies has she told you.


Well if if she could tell that lie, I'm guessing plenty others


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rebel81 said:


> Well if if she could tell that lie, I'm guessing plenty others


So do you really want to live the rest of your life with a wife that lies when she KNOWS she has done something she shouldn't have? She told you she lied because you "would get paranoid", so she's already making decisions about what you are allowed to know. You are only getting the tip of the iceberg here and she's telling you it isn't even an iceberg. 
You asked her to avoid this guy and she is doing the opposite. Why do you think she chooses him over you and then lies to you about it?


----------



## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for all the comments. Couldn't reply to all of them, but this one needs a reply
> 
> Yes, if I'm to invest and risk to small self worth I've left, I'd like to get some kind of prrof that she is not currently cheating. That I will do. Thanks man.
> 
> She sent me a Web link today. "what causes low sex drive in women" usual stuff there, hormones, stress depression, relationship and communication issues. Nothing in there about body issues or having the hots for another man.
> 
> Later today, she was in bed feeling down, tired. Went in to her and hugged her. Ended up french kissing but had to go and meet a friend. Great right.
> 
> Lying on the couch all cosy with her. She has just gone to bed, and no, I can't follow her up. I wouldn't even try to iniatiate at this stage. The rejection to date is unbearable.
> 
> Is it me, or is she a p**** tease?!!!!


Dude, I get more legitimate offers in a day than you probably get in a year.

Mrs. Conan is always ready for ", playtime" or some "lovin" as she refers to it.

She's waiting for my sex as I type this while bathing.

I turn away from outside offers weekly.

You have your head on backwards to be so played by this ridiculous woman you are calling a wife.

How are your T levels?

What type of shape are you in dude?

Yeah you are the problem here. Start manning up and aiming for your own goals for your own satisfaction.

Your "wife" is nothing that should be considered. She obviously can't be bothered to give a fk about you so why are you playing like a little beta lap dog, hoping for a sniff of her stinky ass?

She actually sent you a link about what causes low sex drive in women???

Let me tell you what doesn't cause that..... CONAN!

You are your own worst enemy here. Stop playing and become a serious man.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

ConanHub said:


> Dude, I get more legitimate offers in a day than you probably get in a year.
> 
> Mrs. Conan is always ready for ", playtime" or some "lovin" as she refers to it.
> 
> She's waiting for my sex as I type this while bathing.
> 
> I turn away from outside offers weekly.


 Conan, you forgot to mention how humble you are. 😁
(Aaaahhhh, Barbarian I thought you meant O'Brien)


----------



## ConanHub

Rubix Cubed said:


> Conan, you forgot to mention how humble you are. 😁
> (Aaaahhhh, Barbarian I thought you meant O'Brien)


Sorry it took so long to respond. I was busy messing up my wife's hair in the funnest way imaginable instead of reading lists about what turns her sex drive down.

She's already having trouble walking.😉


----------



## Rebel81

Rubix Cubed said:


> So do you really want to live the rest of your life with a wife that lies when she KNOWS she has done something she shouldn't have? She told you she lied because you "would get paranoid", so she's already making decisions about what you are allowed to know. You are only getting the tip of the iceberg here and she's telling you it isn't even an iceberg.
> You asked her to avoid this guy and she is doing the opposite. Why do you think she chooses him over you and then lies to you about it?


You are 100% correct. 

Because of her job, I think she has a really good talent for gaslighting. I was made to feel like an insecure paranoid controlling ass hole when I brought anything like this up. 

"I work in a male oriented field", "I get on better with males", "I've never in my life cheated on anybody, I'm a loyal dog". 

She said she would give him up 5 years ago. Started to hear his name mentioned again last June as he is now working the same shift as her, but a different unit.


----------



## Rebel81

ConanHub said:


> Dude, I get more legitimate offers in a day than you probably get in a year.
> 
> Mrs. Conan is always ready for ", playtime" or some "lovin" as she refers to it.
> 
> She's waiting for my sex as I type this while bathing.
> 
> I turn away from outside offers weekly.
> 
> You have your head on backwards to be so played by this ridiculous woman you are calling a wife.
> 
> How are your T levels?
> 
> What type of shape are you in dude?
> 
> Yeah you are the problem here. Start manning up and aiming for your own goals for your own satisfaction.
> 
> Your "wife" is nothing that should be considered. She obviously can't be bothered to give a fk about you so why are you playing like a little beta lap dog, hoping for a sniff of her stinky ass?
> 
> She actually sent you a link about what causes low sex drive in women???
> 
> Let me tell you what doesn't cause that..... CONAN!
> 
> You are your own worst enemy here. Stop playing and become a serious man.


Thanks for your input. 

I'm getting in shape, started going to the gym about 2 months ago. Also started going to the local bar recently (without her), I play a team sport twice a week. 

I think it's a case that I will never compete with the comraderie she has with her male colleagues. As she calls them, they are her brothers, they understand her. Me and our family are secondary to all that. She shows no real interest in our kids. Yes she will care for them, make them food etc. But I also do all that as well as take them on walks, to the playground, play with them etc. She does not do that. 

I've stopped initiating as of about 4 weeks ago. Still seeing my therapist who has told me to start building a life outside of her. How right he is. I'm starting to put that into motion, won't happen overnight, but I need to validate myself, not let her dictate my value. 

So as harsh as your words are, they are right.


----------



## *Deidre*

And in the meantime, this is what your kids are learning about marriage. That it's two people living under one roof, living separate lives. I think you should seek to move on and believe in yourself, that life can be much better than what you've been tolerating. Full on adultery doesn't need to happen to feel betrayed and discarded as a spouse. Hope things get better for you, whatever you decide to do.


----------



## Rebel81

*Deidre* said:


> And in the meantime, this is what your kids are learning about marriage. That it's two people living under one roof, living separate lives. I think you should seek to move on and believe in yourself, that life can be much better than what you've been tolerating. Full on adultery doesn't need to happen to feel betrayed and discarded as a spouse. Hope things get better for you, whatever you decide to do.



To be fair, we don't live separate lives. We do spend time daily together, however I need to spend more time separately doing the things I want and need to do. 

And yes, even if she hasn't committed adultery, it sure feels like it emotionally.


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> To be fair, we don't live separate lives. We do spend time daily together, however I need to spend more time separately doing the things I want and need to do.
> 
> And yes, even if she hasn't committed adultery, it sure feels like it emotionally.


If you feel it emotionally, read up on emotional affairs not just physical.


----------



## SunCMars

*Deidre* said:


> *Full on adultery doesn't need to happen to feel betrayed and discarded as a spouse.*


Perfectly stated.

She is a work wife and a sister to her colleagues.
You said this.

To you?
She is a cool phantom that allows you to hold her when it suits her, when her suit is not her police uniform.

Her home is where she hangs her hata', when not working.
Where she eats and sleeps.

Her mind, ever, remains at work.
She has one foot out of the door.

The other foot will follow when she retires from her job.

Her love, and her vagina remains somewhere in space. 
Those two items seem more like..... afterthoughts.

The lady is biding her time, holding off the inevitable.
That time and place where her heart is found, in some place, some home, not yours.

She sounds like she is in limbo.
Very much so...

Living, one day at a time, not at home, only at work.
Work is busy and eventful, it takes her mind away from her worries.

What are these worries?

My Crystal Ball, my Tarot Cards, sees these words, "How do I escape from my unhappy state of being?"

Maybe she would love to live out her life with that work colleague.
I do believe, she would.

But, only if he wanted her.
He seems.....not to.
Not, that way.

He might be up for the occasional hook-up, as does she.
I believe it is not much in ether's cards.

They both have baggage that gets in the way.
Some of that baggage is proper protocol, that seen at work.

The other preventative is knowing intimately, each others faults.
Common sense is, becomes the final arbitrator.

Your wife is wounded, is no longer reachable.
A wife in name only, only on paper.

She drags herself from work, into your home, only in body, not in spirit.

_Let her go,_ she belongs to no one.
No one in particular.
She remains a shell.

I see her as partially, a _Martian_, the cooler, calculating variety.
Her police job has taken away, any warmth she may have had.

You can do better, she seems, not able to.

Divorce, find another love.
Life, it is so damn, short-lived.

Aye.


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> Perfectly stated.
> 
> She is a work wife and a sister to her colleagues.
> You said this.
> 
> To you?
> She is a cool phantom that allows you to hold her when it suits her, when her suit is not her police uniform.
> 
> Her home is where she hangs her hata', when not working.
> Where she eats and sleeps.
> 
> Her mind, ever, remains at work.
> She has one foot out of the door.
> 
> The other foot will follow when she retires from her job.
> 
> Her love, and her vagina remains somewhere in space.
> Those two items seem more like..... afterthoughts.
> 
> The lady is biding her time, holding off the inevitable.
> That time and place where her heart is found, in some place, some home, not yours.
> 
> She sounds like she is in limbo.
> Very much so...
> 
> Living, one day at a time, not at home, only at work.
> Work is busy and eventful, it takes her mind away from her worries.
> 
> What are these worries?
> 
> My Crystal Ball, my Tarot Cards, sees these words, "How do I escape from my unhappy state of being?"
> 
> Maybe she would love to live out her life with that work colleague.
> I do believe, she would.
> 
> But, only if he wanted her.
> He seems.....not to.
> Not, that way.
> 
> He might be up for the occasional hook-up, as does she.
> I believe it is not much in ether's cards.
> 
> They both have baggage that gets in the way.
> Some of that baggage is proper protocol, that seen at work.
> 
> The other preventative is knowing intimately, each others faults.
> Common sense is, becomes the final arbitrator.
> 
> Your wife is wounded, is no longer reachable.
> A wife in name only, only on paper.
> 
> She drags herself from work, into your home, only in body, not in spirit.
> 
> _Let her go,_ she belongs to no one.
> No one in particular.
> She remains a shell.
> 
> I see her as partially, a _Martian_, the cooler, calculating variety.
> Her police job has taken away, any warmth she may have had.
> 
> You can do better, she seems, not able to.
> 
> Divorce, find another love.
> Life, it is so damn, short-lived.
> 
> Aye.


Wow sounds like an old piece of poetry, full of lament!

I knew she was cold when I met her... Silly ol me


----------



## ConanHub

Rebel81 said:


> So as harsh as your words are, they are right.


I'm merely pointing out how ridiculous your wife is and how harsh she is treating you and having a little fun with it as well.😉

I want you to take your life back from her and start walking in a more lion-like manner.

She is behaving like a particularly rancid alley cat and she views you as a mouse she can play with.

Alley cats do not play with lions my friend.

I want you to develop power.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> I get it, all I can do is go on my hunch on this one.
> 
> I know my wife 10 years, I've never seen her play tricks. She barely knows this other woman. There were at least another 15 woman at this event, some of which are friends of my wife, some are just associates.
> 
> Yes I'm here, for a reason. I'm trying to eliminate certain things.


Interesting that the individual that was in question was not even there. 
Wonder why, may be he does not want to interact around you, could be she told him to act right, her hubby will be there.


----------



## Rebel81

Divinely Favored said:


> Interesting that the individual that was in question was not even there.
> Wonder why, may be he does not want to interact around you, could be she told him to act right, her hubby will be there.


Maybe, or maybe he couldn't make the 3 hour long flight. Nobody will ever know.


----------



## Rebel81

ConanHub said:


> I'm merely pointing out how ridiculous your wife is and how harsh she is treating you and having a little fun with it as well.😉
> 
> I want you to take your life back from her and start walking in a more lion-like manner.
> 
> She is behaving like a particularly rancid alley cat and she views you as a mouse she can play with.
> 
> Alley cats do not play with lions my friend.
> 
> I want you to develop power.


The most encouraging post I've seen here in a long while. 

Me too


----------



## BootsAndJeans

ConanHub said:


> Sorry it took so long to respond. I was busy messing up my wife's hair in the funnest way imaginable instead of reading lists about what turns her sex drive down.
> 
> She's already having trouble walking.😉


----------



## Rebel81

For a split moment, I thought that was for me lol

Anyways my wife's hair is looking pretty straight to me. 
She sat next to me on the couch last Sunday, held my hand, rubbed my hand, left her foot on my crotch. Thought I was onto a winner. 

Went to bed, low and behold, nothing... 

3 weeks and counting 😢


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Rebel81 said:


> For a split moment, I thought that was for me lol
> 
> Anyways my wife's hair is looking pretty straight to me.
> She sat next to me on the couch last Sunday, held my hand, rubbed my hand, left her foot on my crotch. Thought I was onto a winner.
> 
> Went to bed, low and behold, nothing...
> 
> 3 weeks and counting 😢


1. Your sex life, has she been medically checked? It could be a hormonal thing and she really has no libido.
2. If her hormones are normal and there are no other physical problems, then she could be LL4U (low libido for you) and the chances of getting her pounded by someone else is high.
3. Married people generally do not stop having sex without there being a root cause. Women who cheat, particularly will at times stop having sex with their husbands to be true to their affair partner.

Honestly with the decrease in marital sex and the issues with the other guy, I would be highly concerned.

As others have told you, you need to "shut up and investigate". Your wife being a professional investigator, that is going to be tough. It is also possible that she and he are working on a case together.


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> For a split moment, I thought that was for me lol
> 
> Anyways my wife's hair is looking pretty straight to me.
> She sat next to me on the couch last Sunday, held my hand, rubbed my hand, left her foot on my crotch. Thought I was onto a winner.
> 
> Went to bed, low and behold, nothing...
> 
> 3 weeks and counting 😢


Because she is f**king with you...


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> Because she is f**king with you...


If that's the case, why on earth would somebody's wife **** with their husband like that!!


----------



## Rebel81

BootsAndJeans said:


> 1. Your sex life, has she been medically checked? It could be a hormonal thing and she really has no libido.
> 2. If her hormones are normal and there are no other physical problems, then she could be LL4U (low libido for you) and the chances of getting her pounded by someone else is high.
> 3. Married people generally do not stop having sex without there being a root cause. Women who cheat, particularly will at times stop having sex with their husbands to be true to their affair partner.
> 
> Honestly with the decrease in marital sex and the issues with the other guy, I would be highly concerned.
> 
> As others have told you, you need to "shut up and investigate". Your wife being a professional investigator, that is going to be tough. It is also possible that she and he are working on a case together.


1.Nope she hasnt been medically checked, even though she said she would a few weeks ago off her own back. 

2. Very likely. 

3. Very likely. 

It's been like this for 6 years. Before we got married! I was contemplating not going ahead with the wedding based on the **** sex life but she said she would try to prioritise it more. I didnt believe her but still went ahead.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Rebel81 said:


> 1.Nope she hasnt been medically checked, even though she said she would a few weeks ago off her own back.
> 
> 2. Very likely.
> 
> 3. Very likely.
> 
> It's been like this for 6 years. Before we got married! I was contemplating not going ahead with the wedding based on the **** sex life but she said she would try to prioritise it more. I didnt believe her but still went ahead.


Wait, she has always been like this?


----------



## ConanHub

I can't comprehend a bomb not going off!


----------



## Rebel81

BootsAndJeans said:


> Wait, she has always been like this?


We met in 2013. Sex was regular and all around great. She iniatiated alot. Had a kid in 2016 and has been getting less frequent since then. Its a sexless marriage technically, 10 times a year or less.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Sometimes having a kid screws with a woman's hormones. It did with mine. We had a big deal about it, after I got back from the Middle East. She got treatment for a few months and was back to normal. Did not happen with the second baby. 

She needs a full panel checkup. Isn't Healthcare basically free in Europe?


----------



## Rebel81

BootsAndJeans said:


> Sometimes having a kid screws with a woman's hormones. It did with mine. We had a big deal about it, after I got back from the Middle East. She got treatment for a few months and was back to normal. Did not happen with the second baby.
> 
> She needs a full panel checkup. Isn't Healthcare basically free in Europe?


Yes it never came back. 

It would cost max 80 dollars for a consultation and hormone test. 

I'm angry not only at the **** sex life but the little to no effort she has made in meeting mine, her husband needs.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Rebel81 said:


> Yes it never came back.
> 
> It would cost max 80 dollars for a consultation and hormone test.
> 
> I'm angry not only at the **** sex life but the little to no effort she has made in meeting mine, her husband needs.


You realize that women can be as clueless about men's needs as some men can be about women's right?

I assume she is not a girly-girl type, working in the field she does. If your sex education is as bad as the USA, then she could actually just be clueless. I honestly think sex is generally low on the priority list for women, and some just cannot believe it us #1 for a man.


----------



## Rebel81

BootsAndJeans said:


> You realize that women can be as clueless about men's needs as some men can be about women's right?
> 
> I assume she is not a girly-girl type, working in the field she does. If your sex education is as bad as the USA, then she could actually just be clueless. I honestly think sex is generally low on the priority list for women, and some just cannot believe it us #1 for a man.


Of course, however we have had umpteen conversations about our sex life where I have told how important it is, that it make me feel more connected to her. So she certainly isn't clueless. 

Not a girly girly type no, but she is still a female and overall feminine in her outlook.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Listen man, a LL wife hearing it from her husband is probably interpretted las "he is just after sex".

She need to hear it from doctors, therapists or even from professionally written books. Unless there is a legitimate medical reason, no or infrequent sex in a marriage is a death sentence for the marriage.

We has 6.5 years of no sex, and this was due to my cancer and health. Even then, it created stress. She needs to go get a full check-up ASAP.


----------



## ConanHub

BootsAndJeans said:


> You realize that women can be as clueless about men's needs as some men can be about women's right?


No woman is so clueless that when she touches a man's junk, she does not know the implications or reactions.

Mrs. Conan said so and I believe her.


----------



## Rebel81

BootsAndJeans said:


> Listen man, a LL wife hearing it from her husband is probably interpretted las "he is just after sex".
> 
> She need to hear it from doctors, therapists or even from professionally written books. Unless there is a legitimate medical reason, no or infrequent sex in a marriage is a death sentence for the marriage.
> 
> We has 6.5 years of no sex, and this was due to my cancer and health. Even then, it created stress. She needs to go get a full check-up ASAP.


Sorry to hear about your troubles. Glad things have changed for you. 

Yes she does!!


----------



## Evinrude58

Dude,
You are thinking about this all wrong. You don’t marry a woman that “wants to meet your needs”. You marry a woman that is starving for you all the time just like you are for her.

Even then it can go to crap. But nobody cares about your needs but you. Send her packing and find a woman that wants you. Then you won’t have to ask for sex (which I’d never do), you just get all you want and then some, with never a second thought.

your wife is cheating, but also- she sucks in general. Whyyyyyyyyyyyy are you accepting this??????


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> If that's the case, why on earth would somebody's wife **** with their husband like that!!


because she is twisted and enjoys it....


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> because she is twisted and enjoys it....


I'm really starting to believe this. 

I went to bed last night to read a book. Never told her I was going to bed. When she came up she was in a mood. She got in to bed and turned off the lamp, not aware that I was reading a ****ing book?!! 

Ended up in an argument where she told me I'm so self absorbed. Told her she is dead inside. She didn't like that!!


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Rebel81 said:


> Told her she is dead inside. She didn't like that!!


That’s weird. Most women love that.


----------



## Rebel81

BeyondRepair007 said:


> That’s weird. Most women love that.


Lol I would have thought so. 

She didn't like that I was being totally blunt and honest.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> I'm really starting to believe this.
> 
> I went to bed last night to read a book. Never told her I was going to bed. When she came up she was in a mood. She got in to bed and turned off the lamp, not aware that I was reading a ****ing book?!!
> 
> Ended up in an argument where she told me I'm so self absorbed. Told her she is dead inside. She didn't like that!!


Her respect for you is so low that she'll just turn the light off while you are reading, like you don't even exist? Your wife sounds like a real *****. I don't get why you are still sticking around and even trying.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

You have a power imbalance dynamic issue. She believes she has control over you. Most women, at least subconsciously, get turned off by a man who allows her to dominate. No offense to the BDSM crowd.


----------



## Lostinthought61

you need to kick this honesty up a notch and tell her we are either married with sex or we are not simple as that and you can go be with him and i can find someone else


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> Lol I would have thought so.
> 
> She didn't like that I was being totally blunt and honest.


Be blunt and honest with us.......

What are your future plans regarding your wife?

She is, what she is, which is not at all to your liking.

Are you going to separate from her and divorce?

Complaining to her, to us, changes nothing.


----------



## ArthurGPym

OP you are being emotionally abused by her. You are an abused spouse. Can you understand that?


----------



## Rebel81

ArthurGPym said:


> OP you are being emotionally abused by her. You are an abused spouse. Can you understand that?


Please tell me what makes you think I'm emotionally abused? 

There are times (multiple times) where she gaslights me. I don't know what is and what isn't real anymore.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> Please tell me what makes you think I'm emotionally abused?
> 
> *There are times (multiple times) where she gaslights me. I don't know what is and what isn't real anymore.*


that part in red


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> that part in red


Yes you're right.

She told me she wasnt aware I was reading a book, hence why she turned the lamp off. She works as a ****ing detective for crying out loud.

I went out last Saturday night. Before that is said if it's OK, I'm gonna head out with a buddy for a few drinks. She told me last night that I never mentioned if it was ok, just said I'm going out. I 100% asked if it was ok. More gaslighting. BTW I don't really ask for permission, I was going regardless.

I was talking to a girl on that night out and she was certainly flirting with me. And no, I won't cheat. But felt so good!!


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> Be blunt and honest with us.......
> 
> What are your future plans regarding your wife?
> 
> She is, what she is, which is not at all to your liking.
> 
> Are you going to separate from her and divorce?
> 
> Complaining to her, to us, changes nothing.


Yes you're right. 

We will likely end up separating.


----------



## Evinrude58

Don’t monkeybranch. Just do what you have to do. Then go date.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Gaslighting, withholding sex and intimacy, blue-balling you, and blatantly hanging out with other men despite your reservations. A loving partner who respects her man would never act in a way to cause him stress or emotional pain. She has done nothing but show you disrespect. This is a vile human being you married.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rebel81 said:


> Yes you're right.
> 
> We will likely end up separating.


No, you divorce. All separating will do is give her the green light to cheat freely. File for divorce.


----------



## Evinrude58

Separating would be the worst thing possible to do. Where would that get you? I agree, file for divorce and separate only as a requirement to move the divorce forward quickly. I’ll bet she’d be more than happy to separate. You’d still pay part if her bills while she does whatever and whom ever she wants.


----------



## Rebel81

ArthurGPym said:


> Gaslighting, withholding sex and intimacy, blue-balling you, and blatantly hanging out with other men despite your reservations. A loving partner who respects her man would never act in a way to cause him stress or emotional pain. She has done nothing but show you disrespect. This is a vile human being you married.


Yep but she is crafty in arguments, I'm **** at them, to the point where all blame will fall on me. 

Anyway, enough of me being the victim. Time to take my power back!!


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Separating would be the worst thing possible to do. Where would that get you? I agree, file for divorce and separate only as a requirement to move the divorce forward quickly. I’ll bet she’d be more than happy to separate. You’d still pay part if her bills while she does whatever and whom ever she wants.


In Ireland, a couple have to separate for 2 years before getting divorced. Crazy? Yes it is!!


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> In Ireland, a couple have to separate for 2 years before getting divorced. Crazy? Yes it is!!


Cruel is what it is


----------



## re16

Rebel81 said:


> I didnt believe her but still went ahead.


If you proceeded to marry her after the sex life was already bad, that was a mistake... expecting someone to change is like expecting to win the lottery.... very rarely ever happens. You can't control her, so for her to change into the vixen you want her to be, she would have to want to make that change and work on it herself.




Rebel81 said:


> I went out last Saturday night. Before that is said if it's OK, I'm gonna head out with a buddy for a few drinks. She told me last night that I never mentioned if it was ok, just said I'm going out. I 100% asked if it was ok. More gaslighting. BTW I don't really ask for permission, I was going regardless.


So if you are going to be treated like you don't ask permission and take the heat for it anyway, why ask for permission?

I think you need to end this. Perhaps that will be an incentive for her to make changes, but you have to be willing to lose the marriage to find out. Also, if you actually think she has cheated on you, this is all moot and you need to just divorce.


----------



## Rebel81

re16 said:


> If you proceeded to marry her after the sex life was already bad, that was a mistake... expecting someone to change is like expecting to win the lottery.... very rarely ever happens. You can't control her, so for her to change into the vixen you want her to be, she would have to want to make that change and work on it herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if you are going to be treated like you don't ask permission and take the heat for it anyway, why ask for permission?
> 
> I think you need to end this. Perhaps that will be an incentive for her to make changes, but you have to be willing to lose the marriage to find out. Also, if you actually think she has cheated on you, this is all moot and you need to just divorce.


Divorce doesn't happen so easily here. It would have to be thought out first, I. E. The practical side of things finances, kids etc before making any move.

She has never received any kid of ultimatum from me, and I'm not an asshole, but she needs to see that it can't continue.
I don't know if she has cheated, I'll never know. Some think she has, others don't.

Do I continue doing the whole gym thing, going out friends, living my own life, and just hope things turn around. I'm certainly not going to be a puppy dog anymore. Doesn't serve me!


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> Yep but she is crafty in arguments, I'm **** at them, to the point where all blame will fall on me.
> 
> Anyway, enough of me being the victim. Time to take my power back!!


HERE is your argument:


ArthurGPym said:


> Gaslighting, withholding sex and intimacy, blue-balling you, and blatantly hanging out with other men despite your reservations. A loving partner who respects her man would never act in a way to cause him stress or emotional pain. She has done nothing but show you disrespect. This is a vile human being you married.


Don't need anything more than that. Keep repeating this over and over to her. Have examples of each.
She WILL try to explain it all away, or say you are too controlling that those men are just co-workers and like brothers, etc., etc.. Don't accept that and just keep to those points. Think it over in your head -- you know what your wife will try to counter with, so just have details to argue it. Do this BEFORE the talk so that you have all the things in your head. Even make notes if you have to...


----------



## Diceplayer

Rebel81 said:


> Do I continue doing the whole gym thing, going out friends, living my own life, and just hope things turn around. I'm certainly not going to be a puppy dog anymore. Doesn't serve me!


Just hoping that things will turn around won't make it happen. The question is, between now and dead, is this the way that you want to live your life? If the answer is yes, then live your life but don't complain about it. If the answer is no, then give her an ultimatum. Are you willing to leave? Then tell her what needs to change and if they don't, you are gone. Do not make idle threats. That shows weakness. So if you are not willing to leave, don't threaten to leave but give her a different ultimatum. But know this, nothing is going to change unless you do.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rebel81 said:


> In Ireland, a couple have to separate for 2 years before getting divorced. Crazy? Yes it is!!


Do you have to physically move out? Better check with your solicitor.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Divorce doesn't happen so easily here. It would have to be thought out first, I. E. The practical side of things finances, kids etc before making any move.
> 
> She has never received any kid of ultimatum from me, and I'm not an asshole, but she needs to see that it can't continue.
> I don't know if she has cheated, I'll never know. Some think she has, others don't.
> 
> Do I continue doing the whole gym thing, going out friends, living my own life, and just hope things turn around. I'm certainly not going to be a puppy dog anymore. Doesn't serve me!


What are the odds that going to her and being direct will get through? What if you told her straight up that this isn't working as it is and we need to start the separation process if this is how things will continue in our marriage?


----------



## Rebel81

ArthurGPym said:


> Do you have to physically move out? Better check with your solicitor.


No you can still live in the same house.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> What are the odds that going to her and being direct will get through? What if you told her straight up that this isn't working as it is and we need to start the separation process if this is how things will continue in our marriage?


I genuinely believe she would be in shock.


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> In Ireland, a couple have to separate for 2 years before getting divorced. Crazy? Yes it is!!


I thought it was 4 of 5 years of separation to file for a Divorce in Ireland. I just learned that now is 2 out 3 years of separation before you can file for divorce in Ireland. Still so backward. I guess Irish courts love to punish their people by making them suffer. That or Ireland is still so terribly backward. Is the Catholic Church still wielding that much power in Ireland?


----------



## Rebel81

Rob_1 said:


> I thought it was 4 of 5 years of separation to file for a Divorce in Ireland. I just learned that now is 2 out 3 years of separation before you can file for divorce in Ireland. Still so backward. I guess Irish courts love to punish their people by making them suffer. That or Ireland is still so terribly backward. Is the Catholic Church still wielding that much power in Ireland?


Yes they are still there but they certainly don't have as much power as they used to. 

In the not too distant future, their hold on Irish society will have diminished to such an extent that divorce may just be quick and easy.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

If you want to save your marriage, you should start implementing the 180 immediately. Her response to that will tell you what you need to know, if she is committed to you and your marriage, or if she is playing you.


Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> I genuinely believe she would be in shock.


Maybe it is high time for some shock.


----------



## re16

Rebel81 said:


> Divorce doesn't happen so easily here. It would have to be thought out first, I. E. The practical side of things finances, kids etc before making any move.


If it takes two years, that seems like plenty of time to figure all that out.

I'm having a hard time getting a clear picture of what you want, sometimes it seems like you know that the relationship doesn't work, and others it seems like you are resigned to never divorcing her.

I think you need to sort out what your requirements are for someone to be your spouse, and then decide if she will ever be that person.


----------



## ArthurGPym

If you do an in-house separation doing The 180 will be imperative for your sanity. You will need all the emotional and psychological fortitude you can muster because once the shock wears off for her I guarantee you she is going to do everything she can to make your life so miserable that you will be forced to move out. She sounds like a spiteful twat now, I cannot imagine what she will be like taking her anger out on you. Prepare for her to throw her legs up for any and all pricks who tell her she is pretty.


----------



## Rebel81

BootsAndJeans said:


> If you want to save your marriage, you should start implementing the 180 immediately. Her response to that will tell you what you need to know, if she is committed to you and your marriage, or if she is playing you.
> 
> 
> Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> No frequent phone calls.
> Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
> Don't follow her/him around the house.
> Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
> Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
> Don't ask for reassurances.
> Don't buy or give gifts.
> Don't schedule dates together.
> Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
> Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
> Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
> Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
> When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
> If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
> Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
> Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
> No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
> All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
> Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
> Don't be overly enthusiastic.
> Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
> Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
> Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
> Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
> Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
> Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
> Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
> Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
> Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
> Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
> Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
> When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


Just as an FYI, I don't know if there is an OM. 

I appreciate you input btw.

The 180 sounds good... I'm just gonna do my thing. I almost forget what's it like to do my own thing. I have been extremely Co depamdant and that stops now. 

I've started working out, and have gone out with a friend to a bar any by myself a few times in the last few weeks. I've also started to not hang around her and boy is she noticing. Anyway, the point is I'm doing if for me.


----------



## Rebel81

re16 said:


> If it takes two years, that seems like plenty of time to figure all that out.
> 
> I'm having a hard time getting a clear picture of what you want, sometimes it seems like you know that the relationship doesn't work, and others it seems like you are resigned to never divorcing her.
> 
> I think you need to sort out what your requirements are for someone to be your spouse, and then decide if she will ever be that person.


My requirements are a spouse who shows interest, desire passion and most of all respect. 

Not someone who sits on their arse in the evening on their phone, starts hugging and touching, rubbing, holding their husbands leg hand and then nothing in the bedroom. I've iniatiated before and got shot down too many times to try again.

The problem is she hugs me in bed when she comes in late from her shift, and while. I'm. Half asleep, I hug back and sometimes iniatiate or touch her in my sleep which I hate doing.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rebel81 said:


> Just as an FYI, I don't know if there is an OM.
> 
> I appreciate you input btw.
> 
> The 180 sounds good... I'm just gonna do my thing. I almost forget what's it like to do my own thing. I have been extremely Co depamdant and that stops now.
> 
> I've started working out, and have gone out with a friend to a bar any by myself a few times in the last few weeks. I've also started to not hang around her and boy is she noticing. Anyway, the point is I'm doing if for me.


Remember the 180 is for YOU: to fortify you, to help you regain your self-esteem and to help you emotionally detach from her. It is NOT a tool to win her back. Don't watch her. Ignore her actually, because all she is going to do is bring you more grief in the end. Narcissists like her don't change.


----------



## Rebel81

ArthurGPym said:


> Remember the 180 is for YOU: to fortify you, to help you regain your self-esteem and to help you emotionally detach from her. It is NOT a tool to win her back. Don't watch her. Ignore her actually, because all she is going to do is bring you more grief in the end. Narcissists like her don't change.


Yes absolutely for me.

When I went to bed a few nights ago without saying good night (such a crime!) , she came to bed 10 minutes later (unlike her) and started saying "oh how was your day Sarah?" and proceeded to tell me that I'm so self absorbed and don't care about her.

The psychological side of me is curious as to why you think she is a narcissist?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Is there another bedroom you can sleep in?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rebel81 said:


> Yes absolutely for me.
> 
> When I went to bed a few nights ago without saying good night (such a crime!) , she came to bed 10 minutes later (unlike her) and started saying "oh how was your day Sarah?" and proceeded to tell me that I'm so self absorbed and don't care about her.
> 
> The psychological side of me is curious as to why you think she is a narcissist?


Primarily her ultimate need for control over you... at any and all costs. Her manipulation tactics. The way she surrounds herself with satellite men like Jupiter is encircled by its moons. She is friends with all those guys because she must be the center of attention. She must receive constant validation.


----------



## Rebel81

ArthurGPym said:


> Is there another bedroom you can sleep in?


Yes but why go there? I'm not ruling it out, I have contemplated it and have slept in separate beds on a few occasions.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Rebel81 said:


> Yes but why go there? I'm not ruling it out, I have contemplated it and have slept in separate beds on a few occasions.



Because it sends her a message


----------



## Rebel81

BootsAndJeans said:


> Because it sends her a message


Fair point. 

If I'm to do the 180, isn't one of the points being that I'm not meant to show I care anymore or is it that I'm sending a message that I'm moving on?


----------



## re16

Rebel81 said:


> My requirements are a spouse who shows interest, desire passion and most of all respect.


So she doesn't do those things correct? ... doesn't that mean that you need to end the relationship?


----------



## Rebel81

ArthurGPym said:


> Primarily her ultimate need for control over you... at any and all costs. Her manipulation tactics. The way she surrounds herself with satellite men like Jupiter is encircled by its moons. She is friends with all those guys because she must be the center of attention. She must receive constant validation.


I understand, but how is she controlling me? If she is, it's obviously so covert that I don't even know how. Must be all the gaslighting!


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Rebel81 said:


> Fair point.
> 
> If I'm to do the 180, isn't one of the points being that I'm not meant to show I care anymore or is it that I'm sending a message that I'm moving on?


Fella, listen. You can go through life like you are, your wife dominating and treating you like a doormat OR you can stiffen your spine and show her that SHE IS NOT necessary for your happiness. Instead, you will show her that you have a choice and she can be a part of it, or not. Women in general are attracted to a man who is not submissive or passive. Submissive/passive men (nice guys) do finish last. You have to develop the mindset that YOU ARE THE PRIZE, for her or another woman to desire.


----------



## Rebel81

BootsAndJeans said:


> Fella, listen. You can go through life like you are, your wife dominating and treating you like a doormat OR you can stiffen your spine and show her that SHE IS NOT necessary for your happiness. Instead, you will show her that you have a choice and she can be a part of it, or not. Women in general are attracted to a man who is not submissive or passive. Submissive/passive men (nice guys) do finish last. You have to develop the mindset that YOU ARE THE PRIZE, for her or another woman to desire.


Yes and yes 💪


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Fair point.
> 
> If I'm to do the 180, isn't one of the points being that I'm not meant to show I care anymore or is it that I'm sending a message that I'm moving on?


Your wife is sending you a message that she doesn't really want to be your wife anymore. She wants the comfort of a roof, and perhaps a roommate for company and shared chores.
Doing the 180 sends the message that you won't do that. you may be a roommate, but that means that she is responsible for her life and you are responsible for yours and you will not take care of her, since taking care of roommates is not a requirement of being a roommate, if that's all she wants to be with you.


----------



## Laurentium

Rebel81 said:


> When I went to bed a few nights ago without saying good night (such a crime!) , she came to bed 10 minutes later (unlike her) and started saying "oh how was your day Sarah?" and proceeded to tell me that I'm so self absorbed and don't care about her.
> 
> The psychological side of me is curious as to why you think she is a narcissist?


I haven't read the entire thread. I am just responding to the above quote.

It looks like narcissism because she assumed that you going to bed was all about her. She was incensed because you didn't meet her needs. She could have said to herself, "_maybe he was tired_". Or she could have said to you, the next day, "_I have something I need to talk about. It really means a lot to me if we don't go to bed without saying goodnight". _Maybe it's reasonable for her to tell you that that's really important to her, and maybe you already knew that, and so what the **** is going on? 

But instead, we get her acting out with the sarcastic "oh how was your day", and you acting out with the sarcastic "oh such a crime". Who do the two of you imagine is in the audience? 

The narcissism is in the "lets scrutinise you, but let's not scrutinise me".


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rebel81 said:


> I understand, but how is she controlling me? If she is, it's obviously so covert that I don't even know how. Must be all the gaslighting!


Her control is demonstrated by the fact that you have stayed with her for so long and put up with her crap for this long.


----------



## Evinrude58

Until you really make up your mind, you’re screwed. You e got to do things and mean it.
You’re not there yet.

When you get there, you won’t be vulnerable to her bs. A child could see through the bs she shovels you. Your rose colored love goggles have been screwing your over for years.

if you ever get out and heal, you’ll be angry with yourself for wasting so much time on this person.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Until you really make up your mind, you’re screwed. You e got to do things and mean it.
> You’re not there yet.
> 
> When you get there, you won’t be vulnerable to her bs. A child could see through the bs she shovels you. Your rose colored love goggles have been screwing your over for years.
> 
> if you ever get out and heal, you’ll be angry with yourself for wasting so much time on this person.


You're right, I'm nowhere near that place yet. 

But I'll chip away at it thanks


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Until you really make up your mind, you’re screwed. You e got to do things and mean it.
> You’re not there yet.
> 
> When you get there, you won’t be vulnerable to her bs. A child could see through the bs she shovels you. Your rose colored love goggles have been screwing your over for years.
> 
> if you ever get out and heal, you’ll be angry with yourself for wasting so much time on this person.


Update 

She has said she is in fact dead inside, has no real feelings for kids etc. Cried this morning when out doing errands. A close elderly family member of hers passed away a few weeks ago and that's not helping her obviously. 

Advice please?


----------



## chazmataz33

Sounds like a case of ptsd.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Update
> 
> She has said she is in fact dead inside, has no real feelings for kids etc. Cried this morning when out doing errands. A close elderly family member of hers passed away a few weeks ago and that's not helping her obviously.
> 
> Advice please?


She needs counseling. A mother that has no feelings for her own kids has serious psychological issues that should be dealt with ASAP.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> She needs counseling. A mother that has no feelings for her own kids has serious psychological issues that should be dealt with ASAP.


Sorry she didn't actually say no feelings. My fault! 

She said everything she does is wrong regarding her kids, everything she does with me and her is wrong. But she did say she is numb. I feel so bad for her, especially all the stuff discussed here


----------



## Tdbo

BigDaddyNY said:


> She needs counseling. A mother that has no feelings for her own kids has serious psychological issues that should be dealt with ASAP.


This, plus a complete physical workup.
Might answer many of the questions.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> This, plus a complete physical workup.
> Might answer many of the questions.


100%. 

She is hesitant to do these things.


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Update
> 
> She has said she is in fact dead inside, has no real feelings for kids etc. Cried this morning when out doing errands. A close elderly family member of hers passed away a few weeks ago and that's not helping her obviously.
> 
> Advice please?


She may be depressed. For many people, depression is not feeling anything at all. I would have her checked out medically and see what options there are for her. She may have a vitamin deficiency, or the relative's death may be traumatic if she was close or it could be hormonal. She may need some counselling because she has been avoiding something. That's what I suggest doing for her.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> Wow sounds like an old piece of poetry, full of lament!
> 
> I knew she was cold when I met her... Silly ol me


Then why complain about it now? You knew this going in to the marriage.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> Yes it never came back.
> 
> It would cost max 80 dollars for a consultation and hormone test.
> 
> I'm angry not only at the **** sex life but the little to no effort she has made in meeting mine, her husband needs.


Because she doesn’t give a **** about you.


----------



## ABHale

BigDaddyNY said:


> She needs counseling. A mother that has no feelings for her own kids has serious psychological issues that should be dealt with ASAP.


Not always. Mothers have killed their children for being in the way of new relationships.

Depression can cause this as well.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Rebel81 said:


> Lol I would have thought so.
> 
> She didn't like that I was being totally blunt and honest.


You need to be blunt and honest. That way if a woman does not get their crap lined out in this situation, she can't say she did not know when she is being divorced. 

I think men are a little sado masochistic because they tolerate the pain too long from women like this.


----------



## TheGodfather

i am new to this thread and site but upon reading your story rebel I'm just wondering are you and wife reconciling, divorcing, do you still want to be with her? did she cheat EA or PA ? I'm just wondering


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> i am new to this thread and site but upon reading your story rebel I'm just wondering are you and wife reconciling, divorcing, do you still want to be with her? did she cheat EA or PA ? I'm just wondering


We are still together. 

No talks of divorce. I was and am here for people's input. Think with 34 pages of replies, I got that input 🤔

I'll never no if it was a physical affair but I think she had a EA a few years back. 

She has been in the cop world for so long, she doesn't know what normal boundaries are in a relationship


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> We are still together.
> 
> No talks of divorce. I was and am here for people's input. Think with 34 pages of replies, I got that input 🤔
> 
> I'll never no if it was a physical affair but I think she had a EA a few years back.
> 
> She has been in the cop world for so long, she doesn't know what normal boundaries are in a relationship


is she willing to talk to you and compromise to make your marriage better and more stable?


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> is she willing to talk to you and compromise to make your marriage better and more stable?


There is no doubt she will talk she is very approachable. 

Whether she follows through is another thing


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> There is no doubt she will talk she is very approachable.
> 
> Whether she follows through is another thing


from your recollection how many times have you both talked and you walked away feeling good , then she goes back to doing what makes you unhappy? and what was discussed in those talks?


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> from your recollection how many times have you both talked and you walked away feeling good , then she goes back to doing what makes you unhappy? and what was discussed in those talks?


It all depends on her mood and what state we are in when sitting down to discuss matters.

As of recently, I don't feel good at all afterwards. 

Sex is just something that cannot be discussed anymore, although I can only go so long until I bring it up again. In fact, sex is the biggest issue. The last big discussion on sex ended with her sending me a link which had a list of why woman lose their libido. I asked her which one applies to her, her reply was all of them!!

A week after that, she said she will. Go see a doc off her own back. Never happened either.

As of yesterday, she now feels numb in general. She was crying while doing grocery shopping and a lady asked her if she was ok. She lost someone very close to her a couple of weeks ago so that's more than likely what is causing the extreme sadness.


----------



## TheGodfather

if sex is an issue and she doesn't want to have sex with you i would say she still loves you , probably more than any man on this earth . but there is just no attraction anymore. i don't know her but i have dated many women and when the sex left , they left. sex is the one undeniable way to show you love a person and are in love with them. without sex you are just her best friend that she loves more than any man on this earth. i am sorry for her loss but the issue of sex seems to have gone on for longer a couple of weeks . 

if she wants to prove she isnt having an affiar and never has had an affair EA or PA , and it truly is her libido causing this . have her take a poly. she works in the law enforcement field . she should be able to do this easily and put your mind to rest.. if she refuses to do it then you have or answer and you can stay with her and live with it or leave.. life is choices . they are simple . actions are the hard part .


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> if sex is an issue and she doesn't want to have sex with you i would say she still loves you , probably more than any man on this earth . but there is just no attraction anymore. i don't know her but i have dated many women and when the sex left , they left. sex is the one undeniable way to show you love a person and are in love with them. without sex you are just her best friend that she loves more than any man on this earth. i am sorry for her loss but the issue of sex seems to have gone on for longer a couple of weeks .
> 
> if she wants to prove she isnt having an affiar and never has had an affair EA or PA , and it truly is her libido causing this . have her take a poly. she works in the law enforcement field . she should be able to do this easily and put your mind to rest.. if she refuses to do it then you have or answer and you can stay with her and live with it or leave.. life is choices . they are simple . actions are the hard part .


Thanks for your honesty. 

This isn't news to me. She has told me recently that she is attracted to me, but I don't believe her and haven't for some time. I also haven't brought it up. If anyone has left themselves go in this relationship it's her, yet I'm still attracted to her but that's waning, more so because of the lack of sex. Resentment does that. 

No way would she take a poly. I think. If you need your partner to do that, the trust is long gone.


----------



## jlg07

chazmataz33 said:


> Sounds like a case of ptsd.


Or serious depression.... BOTH would need a counselor to decide/defuse.
If PTSD, EMDR therapy can help.


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> Update
> 
> She has said she is in fact dead inside, has no real feelings for kids etc. Cried this morning when out doing errands. A close elderly family member of hers passed away a few weeks ago and that's not helping her obviously.
> 
> Advice please?


Take her at her word.

She is clinically depressed.
Add in, PTSD from her job.

It seems to be getting worse.

Take her to a prescribing mental health specialist.

She is your problem because, of your vows.

Help, fix her, or live with her as is, she is broken inside.


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your honesty.
> 
> This isn't news to me. She has told me recently that she is attracted to me, but I don't believe her and haven't for some time. I also haven't brought it up. If anyone has left themselves go in this relationship it's her, yet I'm still attracted to her but that's waning, more so because of the lack of sex. Resentment does that.
> 
> No way would she take a poly. I think. If you need your partner to do that, the trust is long gone.


sometimes the only to prove your trust to someone is doing something that you absolutely don't want too to prove to the one you love your telling the truth. if she wont take a poly then i wish you the best.. i would bring up being romantic , flowers, trips , and all the other ways to get her in the mood but i have a feeling you have tried them all


----------



## Evinrude58

Depression, sex problems……… you’re dealing with problems that really don’t ever get fixed and many men waste their lives fretting over. You can either go through the pain of a divorce, or just be miserable until you die.
Sounds awful to say but you need to hear the truth.
Think about the sex drive she’ll have on anti-depressants. Well, I guess that can’t get worse.


----------



## FakeNews001

At this point, you are the only one keeping yourself in this situation. You need to make a tough choice -- leave or no sex for the rest of your life. Which will you choose?

Also, she may reconsider if you are willing to leave. However, for that to work, you actually have to be willing to leave.


----------



## TheGodfather

FakeNews001 said:


> At this point, you are the only one keeping yourself in this situation. You need to make a tough choice -- leave or no sex for the rest of your life. Which will you choose?
> 
> Also, she may reconsider if you are willing to leave. However, for that to work, you actually have to be willing to leave.


good point although if you have to force your partner into showing affection, love and sex how long will it last? or will he have to threaten divorce on a monthly basis.


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> sometimes the only to prove your trust to someone is doing something that you absolutely don't want too to prove to the one you love your telling the truth. if she wont take a poly then i wish you the best.. i would bring up being romantic , flowers, trips , and all the other ways to get her in the mood but i have a feeling you have tried them all


No I haven't done all those things. I haven't a romantic bone in my body. 

But I haven't changed since we got together. Ya I'll make dinner, give her a foot massage, ask her how her day was, do acts of service which she likes, but not really a flowers man. I'll add it to my long list. 

At the moment, she is unwell and I need to help her.


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> No I haven't done all those things. I haven't a romantic bone in my body.
> 
> But I haven't changed since we got together. Ya I'll make dinner, give her a foot massage, ask her how her day was, do acts of service which she likes, but not really a flowers man. I'll add it to my long list.
> 
> At the moment, she is unwell and I need to help her.


you know i agree with you on that . regardless of your current situation if you love her and she is suffering that is exactly what a good man and husband does, and that is take care of his wife in a time of need.


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> you know i agree with you on that . regardless of your current situation if you love her and she is suffering that is exactly what a good man and husband does, and that is take care of his wife in a time of need.


Of course, I feel terrible that she feels like this. Doesn't help my situation but I guess I have to leave that aside for now, as painful as it is.


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> Of course, I feel terrible that she feels like this. Doesn't help my situation but I guess I have to leave that aside for now, as painful as it is.


it just shows your integrity and character as a man. i know you will have people telling you to run for the hills but at the end of the day you have to do everything you can as a man to have no regrets whether you stay or go in the end. a little advice when she is better .. a little romance goes a long way trust me.. your a good man i have faith in you brother


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> it just shows your integrity and character as a man. i know you will have people telling you to run for the hills but at the end of the day you have to do everything you can as a man to have no regrets whether you stay or go in the end. a little advice when she is better .. a little romance goes a long way trust me.. your a good man i have faith in you brother


Cheers man. I'll help her as best I can, try the romance and after that, it's either game over or my wife back.


----------



## ABHale

She told you that she is dead inside and your going to play the pick me game. 

This is going to be fun. Please read what about doing the pick me game. If your trying to push her away even faster then she is going now, go for it.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

ABHale said:


> She told you that she is dead inside and your going to play the pick me game.
> 
> This is going to be fun. Please read what about doing the pick me game. If your trying to push her away even faster then she is going now, go for it.


Yup, The pick-me dance is the bullet train to Splitsville. It's a guarantee she will lose what little bit of respect she has left for you. The only faster way to lose that respect would be to tell her you are OK with her screwing other men (which you kind of are saying if you keep her).


----------



## Evinrude58

Some men keep a truck that won’t run.
A dog that won’t hunt.
Fishing lures that don’t catch fish.
Those men are stupid.


----------



## Rebel81

Rebel81 said:


> Cheers man. I'll help her as best I can, try the romance and after that, it's either game over or my wife back.


Wish I didn't post this reply.

No romancing her, but I will help her with her mental health issues. 

How did I get myself into this?!! FML.


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> Wish I didn't post this reply.
> 
> No romancing her, but I will help her with her mental health issues.
> 
> How did I get myself into this?!! FML.


if you feel she just isnt going to come back to you then help her through this and leave . if she destroys your mental health your no good to anyone. seriously


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> if you feel she just isnt going to come back to you then help her through this and leave . if she destroys your mental health your no good to anyone. seriously


She is already affecting my mental health. I'll help her as the mother of our kids, as her friend.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rebel81 said:


> Wish I didn't post this reply.
> 
> No romancing her, but I will help her with her mental health issues.
> 
> How did I get myself into this?!! FML.


You didn't get yourself into this, but you are keeping yourself in it. 

Let me ask you why you think she is such a noble person that she is deserving of your continued love and care? From the picture you have painted, she has taken your feelings into very little account over the past few years. 

This is what I think: If she can get up in the morning, make herself breakfast, wipe her own ass and go grocery shopping by herself, she can damn well make an appointment with a psychiatrist for a psych screening. She can damn well see a gynecologist to get tested for any female issues that could cause her to have low libido. But she hasn't done any of that it seems. That tells me she doesn't give a damn, or she is too proud and stubborn to go see a doctor.


----------



## TheGodfather

ArthurGPym said:


> You didn't get yourself into this, but you are keeping yourself in it.
> 
> Let me ask you why you think she is such a noble person that she is deserving of your continued love and care? From the picture you have painted, she has taken your feelings into very little account over the past few years.
> 
> This is what I think: If she can get up in the morning, make herself breakfast, wipe her own ass and go grocery shopping by herself, she can damn well make an appointment with a psychiatrist for a psych screening. She can damn well see a gynecologist to get tested for any female issues that could cause her to have low libido. But she hasn't done any of that it seems. That tells me she doesn't give a damn, or she is too proud and stubborn to go see a doctor.


I think rebel knows what he has to do, he knows what he should do , but unfortunately sometimes the heart keeps us in places we have no business being in until one day you just wake up and realize it is time to go... until then we just look for support so we don't lose are mind


----------



## re16

I agree that he knows what to do, but is too scared to do anything to change his situation.

Not much more advice can be given. It starts to get tough for her and suddenly he needs to be her knight in shining armor again.

The chances she changes into what would make him happy are nearly non-existent.


----------



## Rebel81

re16 said:


> I agree that he knows what to do, but is too scared to do anything to change his situation.
> 
> Not much more advice can be given. It starts to get tough for her and suddenly he needs to be her knight in shining armor again.
> 
> The chances she changes into what would make him happy are nearly non-existent.


You said it man.

Because of what she said, I have been extra sensitive to her needs etc and helping with kids which I do anyway.

Where does this get me? Apparently I'm a self absorbed man who only cares about myself. My answer to that... **** you!!

Time to go back to the 180 concept, and start doing that again. That gave me a level of confidence which could only grow over time.

Also, did you all know this... Apparently "its not sexual rejection, its a choice" said my wife.

And she is trying in regards to our sex life. I was blunt and told her she has done nothing.

Back to the 180 for my ultimate sanity and contentment.


----------



## jlg07

The 180 is so you can start detaching from her. Work on YOUR life -- work out, eat right, start/restart hobbies, go see friends, etc..
Stop doing things for her or trying to accommodate her. You work on YOU.

She even said it -- it's not rejection it's a CHOICE -- SHE is actively deciding to NOT have sex with you. What does that tell you? That isn't a wife in my opinion, and from the other ways she is treating you, she's not much of a roommate either.


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> The 180 is so you can start detaching from her. Work on YOUR life -- work out, eat right, start/restart hobbies, go see friends, etc..
> Stop doing things for her or trying to accommodate her. You work on YOU.
> 
> She even said it -- it's not rejection it's a CHOICE -- SHE is actively deciding to NOT have sex with you. What does that tell you? That isn't a wife in my opinion, and from the other ways she is treating you, she's not much of a roommate either.


I was doing that until I got sidetracked by her. Course I want to help her, but I'm doing it in such a way that it's almost as a friend or as the mother of our kids. 

Silly question, but if she tries to curl up on the couch with me or spoon in bed just do it? Not a great way to detach!! 

Course it's not a wife... It's a cop out.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> I was doing that until I got sidetracked by her. Course I want to help her, but I'm doing it in such a way that it's almost as a friend or as the mother of our kids.
> 
> Silly question, but if she tries to curl up on the couch with me or spoon in bed just do it? Not a great way to detach!!
> 
> Course it's not a wife... It's a cop out.


detach completely - no touching, cuddling or spooning


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> detach completely - no touching, cuddling or spooning


Wanna try that from a practical point of view? She cuddles up on the couch... You're telling me to move away or to just not reciprocate?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Wanna try that from a practical point of view? She cuddles up on the couch... You're telling me to move away or to just not reciprocate?


I would just be cold and not reciprocate.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> Wanna try that from a practical point of view? She cuddles up on the couch... You're telling me to move away or to just not reciprocate?


move away and sit somewhere else. clear message to her
her trying to spoon and cuddle just to drag you and butter you without getting anything. 
its like aspirin or pain medication but doesn't resolve the problem. she is trying to just to num you.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> I would just be cold and not reciprocate.


And the inevitable question... "what's wrong with you". 

(In my head) ,I didnt marry you so we could be roommates. You have a physical need to be close, I have a physical need for sexual intimacy. I hold up my end of the deal, you don't.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> And the inevitable question... "what's wrong with you".
> 
> (In my head) ,I didnt marry you so we could be roommates. You have a physical need to be close, I have a physical need for sexual intimacy. I hold up my end of the deal, you don't.


question, why are you still in the relationship? what prevents you from divorcing and finding someone new? do you feel like you cant have another person?


----------



## blackclover3

you had posted this thread back in JULY. this is almost 6 months ago and still this issue not resolved by her and you going through this pain for this long. I cant imagine


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Wanna try that from a practical point of view? She cuddles up on the couch... You're telling me to move away or to just not reciprocate?


Unless she is willing to back it up with appropriate action, just move away.
When it stops becoming foreplay, it becomes teasing.
I would hope that you value yourself enough to come to the conclusion that you deserve better.
Until* YOU *draw the line in the sand, she is going to do the bare minimum to maintain the status quo.


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> question, why are you still in the relationship? what prevents you from divorcing and finding someone new? do you feel like you cant have another person?


Because I'm afraid of leaving and making the wrong decision. Because some part of me thinks she will change.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> When it stops becoming foreplay, it becomes teasing.


But is it foreplay? To me, some element of it is foreplay and the rest is just being intimate or connected with your partner.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> But is it foreplay? To me, some element of it is foreplay and the rest is just being intimate or connected with your partner.


Then the obvious questions are: Why does she shut it down? Shouldn't she (if she values you) allow it to follow through to conclusion?


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Then the obvious questions are: Why does she shut it down? Shouldn't she (if she values you) allow it to follow through to conclusion?


If she valued me and my needs and valued the importance of connection within a marriage, of course she should follow through.


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> But is it foreplay? To me, some element of it is foreplay and the rest is just being intimate or connected with your partner.


For crying out loud dude. Get a grip of yourself. It's so obvious that your so called 180 is nothing but, a passive-aggressive response/punishment to deal with your own weak behavior of continuing to accept the disrespect/rejection that you have allowed because you lack the fortitude to do otherwise. I know what I'm talking about. The only difference between you and I is that I only allowed it for three months. Yes, three months, after those three months I dumped her. Best decision I ever made in my life. My present wife is a constant reminder that that decision was the right one.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> If she valued me and my needs and valued the importance of connection within a marriage, of course she should follow through.


Until you respect yourself to stand up and set the expectation for what you deserve, this is all you are going to get.
You need to go back into the 180 and let her feel some chill.
You can ratchet it back a bit if she has some sort of a true mental breakdown or episode, but she needs to feel the pressure of being held to account, and the fact that there will potentially be negative consequences for her.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> Because I'm afraid of leaving and making the wrong decision. Because some part of me thinks she will change.


You are not afraid of the wrong decision. Why would a person change she they don’t want to change. What you’re getting is what you’ll always get. You’ve communicated your problems, she has shown she doesn’t give a damn.


----------



## Tron

What is preventing you from telling her to "piss off" when she tries to sit next to you and cuddle?

I don't think it is too rude under the circumstances but, if you feel that way, then simply get up and move to another chair. That is your "choice". You have as much right to sit where you want as she has to tell you "no".


----------



## Kput

This is such a one sided relationship, she gets what she wants possibly including an EA and/or PA.

What do you get apart from anxiety and sleepless nights, you "love" her, really! Maybe you should ask yourself why, reading your posts I cannot see any reason why.

The hardest men can get walked over and emotionally manipulated by a woman don't be one of them.

Start the "map" from mmslp if not to save this relationship but to prepare for the next one.

You have only one life, tick, tick, tick


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rebel81 said:


> Because I'm afraid of leaving and making the wrong decision. Because some part of me thinks she will change.


You have already made the wrong decision to tolerate all of this.


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> If she valued me and my needs and valued the importance of connection within a marriage, of course she should follow through.


you've just answered you own question about your wife...


----------



## Rebel81

Thanks for the advice. 

One thing which I failed to mention is that I found out on the recent trip abroad that my wife, her female colleague and a male colleague shared a bed. As usual, it was a xmas party. My wife and the female colleague were sharing a room. The male colleague came back to the hotel and the 2 guys he was sharing a room with didn't open the door for him. Apparently they were all **** faced drunk. It was either he slept in the corridor or sleep with them. 

Again, in rare circumstances (very rare), this **** can happen but again she failed to mention it at the time. I think it was 2 or 3 years ago. 

Before everybody starts going crazy, this guy I know. He is genuinely a nice guy and I know his wife, also a very nice lady. 

Again it comes back on my wife. If anything she should have said it at the time.


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> One thing which I failed to mention is that I found out on the recent trip abroad that my wife, her female colleague and a male colleague shared a bed. As usual, it was a xmas party. My wife and the female colleague were sharing a room. The male colleague came back to the hotel and the 2 guys he was sharing a room with didn't open the door for him. Apparently they were all **** faced drunk. It was either he slept in the corridor or sleep with them.
> 
> Again, in rare circumstances (very rare), this **** can happen but again she failed to mention it at the time. I think it was 2 or 3 years ago.
> 
> Before everybody starts going crazy, this guy I know. He is genuinely a nice guy and I know his wife, also a very nice lady.
> 
> Again it comes back on my wife. If anything she should have said it at the time.


Hotels usually have cots for the asking.


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> One thing which I failed to mention is that I found out on the recent trip abroad that my wife, her female colleague and a male colleague shared a bed. As usual, it was a xmas party. My wife and the female colleague were sharing a room. The male colleague came back to the hotel and the 2 guys he was sharing a room with didn't open the door for him. Apparently they were all **** faced drunk. It was either he slept in the corridor or sleep with them.
> 
> Again, in rare circumstances (very rare), this **** can happen but again she failed to mention it at the time. I think it was 2 or 3 years ago.
> 
> Before everybody starts going crazy, this guy I know. He is genuinely a nice guy and I know his wife, also a very nice lady.
> 
> Again it comes back on my wife. If anything she should have said it at the time.



Again, this boils down to trust. and you don't seem to have it. In that light, if you don't have trust , then what? are you just going to keep chasing your own tail for the rest of your life, or what is it that you want? because this is not way to live.
Moaning and *****ing won't get you anywhere. Decide what is it that you want and go from there.


----------



## Rebel81

Rob_1 said:


> Again, this boils down to trust. and you don't seem to have it. In that light, if you don't have trust , then what? are you just going to keep chasing your own tail for the rest of your life, or what is it that you want? because this is not way to live.
> Moaning and *****ing won't get you anywhere. Decide what is it that you want and go from there.


On reflection, there was no real need to post what I posted. Makes no difference. 

The 180 is the way to go which I'm doing, not properly yet but trying to perfect it.


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> On reflection, there was no real need to post what I posted. Makes no difference.
> 
> The 180 is the way to go which I'm doing, not properly yet but trying to perfect it.



I still don't get you. What is it that you want to achieve? the 180 is to detach when you are getting out of a relationship. Are you getting out? are you divorcing your wife? if not, then what do you think that the 180 will get you?


----------



## Rebel81

Rob_1 said:


> I still don't get you. What is it that you want to achieve? the 180 is to detach when you are getting out of a relationship. Are you getting out? are you divorcing your wife? if not, then what do you think that the 180 will get you?


Yes I want to detach. Trying to attach has not worked for the past 7 years! 

If she comes back, so be it. It's not my aim however. I want to be happy living my own life.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> One thing which I failed to mention is that I found out on the recent trip abroad that my wife, her female colleague and a male colleague shared a bed. As usual, it was a xmas party. My wife and the female colleague were sharing a room. The male colleague came back to the hotel and the 2 guys he was sharing a room with didn't open the door for him. Apparently they were all **** faced drunk. It was either he slept in the corridor or sleep with them.
> 
> Again, in rare circumstances (very rare), this **** can happen but again she failed to mention it at the time. I think it was 2 or 3 years ago.
> 
> Before everybody starts going crazy, this guy I know. He is genuinely a nice guy and I know his wife, also a very nice lady.
> 
> Again it comes back on my wife. If anything she should have said it at the time.


Heck yes this is a big deal... are you kidding me? I dont care if the guy is even my brother, Saint, Pope, or her cousin. he get to see someone's wife sleeping and maybe in her shorts and PJs or less. all drunk? what else could go wrong?

you minimize it, if you have to type a headline it would be like "guy slept in my wife's hotel room during the business trip" or "drunk guy and drunk wife shared a room"


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> Yes I want to detach. Trying to attach has not worked for the past 7 years!
> 
> If she comes back, so be it. It's not my aim however. I want to be happy living my own life.


You are still not clear. very ambivalent with your replies.
You haven't say I want to detach because I will be leaving and divorcing my wife.

"I want to be Happy" does that means happy by leaving and divorcing your wife?, or staying in the relationship and living your own separate life completely independent of your wife? if this and not the former, then, are you so economically strapped that you just can't divorce, and each of you go your own way in search of that "happiness"?

So, what is it? what is your end game?


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> Heck yes this is a big deal... are you kidding me? I dont care if the guy is even my brother, Saint, Pope, or her cousin. he get to see someone's wife sleeping and maybe in her shorts and PJs or less. all drunk? what else could go wrong?
> 
> you minimize it, if you have to type a headline it would be like "guy slept in my wife's hotel room during the business trip" or "drunk guy and drunk wife shared a room"


I minimise it because I've almost been brainwashed or programmed to think that these things should be minimised. 

It shouldn't be minimised!


----------



## Rebel81

Rob_1 said:


> You are still not clear. very ambivalent with your replies.
> You haven't say I want to detach because I will be leaving and divorcing my wife.
> 
> "I want to be Happy" does that means happy by leaving and divorcing your wife?, or staying in the relationship and living your own separate life completely independent of your wife? if this and not the former, then, are you so economically strapped that you just can't divorce, and each of you go your own way in search of that "happiness"?
> 
> So, what is it? what is your end game?


I want to live my own separate life. We built a house in the last year so we have a nice mortgage. And no, I wouldnt be able to afford my own rental property on top of my contribution to the mortgage.


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> I want to live my own separate life. We built a house in the last year so we have a nice mortgage. And no, I wouldnt be able to afford my own rental property on top of my contribution to the mortgage.


If that's the your aim, then, complete in house separation should be the main objective. If you haven't done it yet, you should have your own bedroom with lock, and minimal interactions if at all. I don't know if on top of the 180, grey rock/icing her would be beneficial for you and the overall house environment, but is something to consider if one of your goals is to completely live in that house as if you were living somewhere else. You need to weight the pros and cons of gray rock/icing someone. The 180 is a perfect tool for detaching from someone, but not enough sometimes when one wanting to pretend that the other person does not exist.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> I was doing that until I got sidetracked by her. Course I want to help her, but I'm doing it in such a way that it's almost as a friend or as the mother of our kids.
> 
> Silly question, but if she tries to curl up on the couch with me or spoon in bed just do it? Not a great way to detach!!
> 
> Course it's not a wife... It's a cop out.


I would stop all physical contact.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> Wanna try that from a practical point of view? She cuddles up on the couch... You're telling me to move away or to just not reciprocate?


Move away. Why should you give anything she needs when she is dead set against giving you anything in return. The only thing the physical contact causes you is frustration.


----------



## Rebel81

Rob_1 said:


> If that's the your aim, then, complete in house separation should be the main objective. If you haven't done it yet, you should have your own bedroom with lock, and minimal interactions if at all. I don't know if on top of the 180, grey rock/icing her would be beneficial for you and the overall house environment, but is something to consider if one of your goals is to completely live in that house as if you were living somewhere else. You need to weight the pros and cons of gray rock/icing someone. The 180 is a perfect tool for detaching from someone, but not enough sometimes when one wanting to pretend that the other person does not exist.


On second thought, maybe the 180 is pointless. What isn't pointless though is me continuing with building my confidence, gym, going out with friends, taking up new hobbies etc


----------



## Rebel81

ABHale said:


> Move away. Why should you give anything she needs when she is dead set against giving you anything in return. The only thing the physical contact causes you is frustration.


It's a strange one but thanks for your advice.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> It's a strange one but thanks for your advice.


not even that, why would you want to be with someone who doesn't like to sleep with you but someone else? treatment, counseling, and talk are not going to fix. and if it fixes it somehow you will be getting only pity sex or a bag of potatoes. then you will be trying to fight for another few years why are you acting like a bag of potatoes when we have sex. is this how you going to be spending your life?
once someone hits 40 then every year counts. every year your health, ability, arousal, libido, and body decrease for MEN.


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> I was doing that until I got sidetracked by her. Course I want to help her, but I'm doing it in such a way that it's almost as a friend or as the mother of our kids.
> 
> Silly question, but if she tries to curl up on the couch with me or spoon in bed just do it? Not a great way to detach!!
> 
> Course it's not a wife... It's a cop out.


Yes, it is a cop out, literally!


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> On second thought, maybe the 180 is pointless. What isn't pointless though is me continuing with building my confidence, gym, going out with friends, taking up new hobbies etc


All that is good and dandy, yeah, go ahead, make yourself more confident, take new hobbies, and all that. 

What you don't see (or not want to see) is that by abandoning the 180, and continuing to have a marriage, is just your capitulation to her. She gets to live her life, you are there to take care of things, and she gets to comfy continue blissfully pretending that she got a man figure that will cuddle with her and that's the extent of everything, basically, she has it made. You my friend seem to lack more than confidence. You need to get back your self respect, your dignity, your self worth, and you man card. All this ambivalence you are showing is your fears; COURAGE to do what you need to do is the starting point.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rebel81 said:


> It's a strange one but thanks for your advice.


Why is it strange? Brother, your head is still on backwards. Get back on that 180 and detach. Stop engaging with her and stop cuddling. 

Good lord. Show some self-respect.


----------



## Rebel81

Rob_1 said:


> All that is good and dandy, yeah, go ahead, make yourself more confident, take new hobbies, and all that.
> 
> What you don't see (or not want to see) is that by abandoning the 180, and continuing to have a marriage, is just your capitulation to her. She gets to live her life, you are there to take care of things, and she gets to comfy continue blissfully pretending that she got a man figure that will cuddle with her and that's the extent of everything, basically, she has it made. You my friend seem to lack more than confidence. You need to get back your self respect, your dignity, your self worth, and you man card. All this ambivalence you are showing is your fears; COURAGE to do what you need to do is the starting point.


Yes yes and yes. 

I needed that, thanks man. 

She has it made is right. No more, **** that ****.

Disrespecting me and her trying to convince me that I'm the problem!

I'm taking my power back...


----------



## Evinrude58

She went off to a Christmas party, got drunk, and had another drunk man and a drunk woman in her bed……
Then you tell us what a great guy he and his wife are and make excuses for him based on what you heard from a known liar. 
And you forgot to mention that until now.

I don’t get it.


----------



## jlg07

ABHale said:


> Move away. Why should you give anything she needs when she is dead set against giving you anything in return. The only thing the physical contact causes you is frustration.


Yeah, if she tries to cuddle, just tell her that is too much like teasing when you know it has no chance of leading to anything, so you'd prefer NOT to touch.

In addition, KEEP up with the 180. Again it is for YOU to detach -- not to punish her or manipulate her -- it's to get YOUR emotions out of it so that she can't get to you anymore.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> She went off to a Christmas party, got drunk, and had another drunk man and a drunk woman in her bed……
> Then you tell us what a great guy he and his wife are and make excuses for him based on what you heard from a known liar.
> And you forgot to mention that until now.
> 
> I don’t get it.


I tried to brush if off, but no its not ****ing normal. And it obviously bothers me. 

Very normal in the cop world. How convenient!


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Yes yes and yes.
> 
> I needed that, thanks man.
> 
> She has it made is right. No more, *** that ***.
> 
> Disrespecting me and her trying to convince me that I'm the problem!
> 
> I'm taking my power back...


And living your life, with her being irrelevant, as you get your act together is the best way to do that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> I tried to brush if off, but no its not ****ing normal. And it obviously bothers me.
> 
> Very normal in the cop world. How convenient!


I think that is a line of total BS. I know different cultures have different practices, but I find it hard to believe that cop culture in Ireland includes shares a bed with your drunk colleagues. If this is what she is telling you is normal you have to know she is full of ****.


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> I tried to brush if off, but no its not ****ing normal. And it obviously bothers me.
> 
> Very normal in the cop world. How convenient!


I work for the police. At least for my police force, fraterization between police officers is a fireable offense. The last thing a police force needs is an unhinged officer ready to murder another officer over infidelity. It may be different in the states, where county police have low standards, but reputable police forces will not take kindly to work affairs.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think that is a line of total BS. I know different cultures have different practices, but I find it hard to believe that cop culture in Ireland includes shares a bed with your drunk colleagues. If this is what she is telling you is normal you have to know she is full of ****.


She didn't say it was normal, but might as well. Everything is minimised by her to the point where I feel like a paranoid controlling piece of ****.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81


Rebel81 said:


> She didn't say it was normal, but might as well. Everything is minimised by her to the point where I feel like a paranoid controlling piece of ****.


how much you wanna bet that she had 3some?


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> Rebel81
> 
> 
> how much you wanna bet that she had 3some?


Possible. Anything is possible. Still hard to believe.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Everything is minimised by her to the point where I feel like a paranoid controlling piece of ****.


Don't feel that way.
She's got all the control. As a matter of fact, she's got everything she wants.
That all stops when you decide that you are no longer going to be an indentured servant.
The 180 is your best friend right now. Apply that liberally and steadfastly.
Make her feel the distance and the disconnect. Make her feel personal discomfort. Make her feel that her world is slipping away. 
When she no longer can endure that, then you will know what you have.
At that point, you have the upper hand. You are the one with options.
If she tries to reconnect or reel you in, you can consider reengaging *ON YOUR TERMS*.
If she doesn't make the effort, then you know where you stand. At that point, you decide whether you continue living the charade, or you take the actions to improve your plight in life by moving on.
There is no doubt that you feel that you are living in hell; however, the only person that can liberate you from that is yourself.
When you take charge and manipulate the variables is when you will get the change you desire.
There is no incentive for her to change because she is getting everything she wants *ON HER TERMS.*
You are merely* facilitating the outcome that she desires.*
Why should she change anything or even give a damn?
You are the captain of your own ship. It's time for *you* to get it sorted.
*Because she sure as hell ain't gonna do it for you.*


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> I tried to brush if off, but no its not ****ing normal. And it obviously bothers me.
> 
> Very normal in the cop world. How convenient!


I hope you told that guy's WIFE what he did!


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> She didn't say it was normal, but might as well. Everything is minimised by her to the point where I feel like a paranoid controlling piece of ****.


Which is EXACTLY how she is trying to make you feel. She is very manipulative...


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> I tried to brush if off, but no its not ****ing normal. And it obviously bothers me.


It's not ****ing normal, just because she says it is.
What were her consequences for that?
Cause she sure as hell isn't going to change anything until she experiences some.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> I tried to brush if off, but no its not ****ing normal. And it obviously bothers me.
> 
> Very normal in the cop world. How convenient!


******** about this being normal in cop world.

She had a threesome with this couple and you just tried to brush it off?

You are worse than your cheating wife. The two of you deserve one another, the cheating wife and the husband that turns a blind eye to the obvious. I hope many more years of happiness for the two of you.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> One thing which I failed to mention is that I found out on the recent trip abroad that my wife, her female colleague and a male colleague shared a bed. As usual, it was a xmas party. My wife and the female colleague were sharing a room. The male colleague came back to the hotel and the 2 guys he was sharing a room with didn't open the door for him. Apparently they were all **** faced drunk. It was either he slept in the corridor or sleep with them.
> 
> Again, in rare circumstances (very rare), this **** can happen but again she failed to mention it at the time. I think it was 2 or 3 years ago.
> 
> Before everybody starts going crazy, this guy I know. He is genuinely a nice guy and I know his wife, also a very nice lady.
> 
> Again it comes back on my wife. If anything she should have said it at the time.


This is just so priceless!!!!!

Of course, it has never happened that the best guy in the world would **** your wife!!! This is such blind faith as a child that has never seen the world.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> She didn't say it was normal, but might as well. Everything is minimised by her to the point where I feel like a paranoid controlling piece of ****.


Because YOU are allowing her to manipulate the **** out of you. You have no ability whatsoever to stand up for yourself and what is right and wrong in your relationship.


----------



## ABHale

Rebel81 said:


> Possible. Anything is possible. Still hard to believe.


Why is it hard to believe? This is the real issue of everything going on. Why can’t you see what everyone on this forum sees?


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> I hope you told that guy's WIFE what he did!


Ha funnily enough I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it. Or the female colleagues husband.


----------



## ArthurGPym

blackclover3 said:


> Rebel81
> 
> 
> how much you wanna bet that she had 3some?


Uh…. Duh.


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> Ha funnily enough I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it. Or the female colleagues husband.


hey brother been awhile since i been on here i got banned for a reason no one will tell me what i did wrong lol.. how you been holding up? things better with the wife?


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> One thing which I failed to mention is that I found out on the recent trip abroad that my wife, her female colleague and a male colleague shared a bed. As usual, it was a xmas party. My wife and the female colleague were sharing a room. The male colleague came back to the hotel and the 2 guys he was sharing a room with didn't open the door for him. Apparently they were all **** faced drunk. It was either he slept in the corridor or sleep with them.
> 
> Again, in rare circumstances (very rare), this **** can happen but again she failed to mention it at the time. I think it was 2 or 3 years ago.
> 
> Before everybody starts going crazy, this guy I know. He is genuinely a nice guy and I know his wife, also a very nice lady.
> 
> Again it comes back on my wife. If anything she should have said it at the time.


This is old news, to you, to all of us.

There has been no similar news since. 

Do I have this right?

Your wife said she feels fat, and is dead inside. 

She gets snippy with you, now and then.

Even this is older news.

Anything, new happening?

Do you have plans to separate from her?

So many posts, later, my old brain cannot remember!


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> hey brother been awhile since i been on here i got banned for a reason no one will tell me what i did wrong lol.. how you been holding up? things better with the wife?


I reckon she thinks all is ok. However, this little puppy has started to get a backbone.

2023 will be my year.


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> This is old news, to you, to all of us.
> 
> There has been no similar news since.
> 
> Do I have this right?
> 
> Your wife said she feels fat, and is dead inside.
> 
> She gets snippy with you, now and then.
> 
> Even this is older news.
> 
> Anything, new happening?
> 
> Do you have plans to separate from her?
> 
> So many posts, later, my old brain cannot remember!


If nothing changes, 2023 will be the year her eyes are opened. 

6 weeks of no sex so far. And she has kissed me today, hugged in bed. How pathetic!!


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> If nothing changes, 2023 will be the year her eyes are opened.
> 
> 6 weeks of no sex so far. And she has kissed me today, hugged in bed. How pathetic!!


She has what you need, in three key places.

Her lips, her breasts, her warm fold.

She carries them around with her day and night.

Does this, and will not share these a few times a week, a half hour at a time.

You are her betrothed, yet she treats you like an untouchable.

Your caste is not blue, like hers.

Not a Brahman, you are a commoner, a mere citizen.


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> She has what you need, in three key places.
> 
> Her lips, her breasts, her warm fold.
> 
> She carries them around with her day and night.
> 
> Does this, and will not share these a few times a week, a half hour at a time.
> 
> You are her betrothed, yet she treats you like an untouchable.
> 
> Your caste is not blue, like hers.
> 
> Not a Brahman, you are a commoner, a mere citizen.


Yes its all I need. So simple yet so hard.

I reached a new low. Spend most of the night laying there looking at the ceiling. She asked if I was OK, "ya sure". Yet she knows the problem without having to discuss it.

Gonna stop whining now. Rant over. The plan continues...


----------



## Evinrude58

It takes like 100 years to get a divorce where you live, if I recall correctly. Why not just see a solicitor and start the process? Exactly what do you have to lose? You’re miserable.

You are a creature of habit. You’ve tolerated this for years. Until you make a move and start heading down a new path, this is what you’re left with. She isn’t going to change. She doesn’t want to. You’re gonna wake up one morning 70 years old and still with her, having wasted your life with a frigid police woman for a wife.

Don’t think you’re suddenly going to grow a spine. It doesn’t happen. Plant the seed to start some growth by taking steps toward achieving the goal of getting loose from that anchor tied to your neck. Don’t even tell her. Just have her served the papers. Yes, she knows you’re suffering, and she doesn’t care.


----------



## snowbum

I don’t getting loving someone and not showing romance. I also don’t get never having sex. Time to move on . Insanity is doing the same thing expecting a different outcome.


----------



## Rebel81

snowbum said:


> I don’t getting loving someone and not showing romance. I also don’t get never having sex. Time to move on . Insanity is doing the same thing expecting a different outcome.


It's surely impossible to love somebody and blatantly ignore their needs.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> It takes like 100 years to get a divorce where you live, if I recall correctly. Why not just see a solicitor and start the process? Exactly what do you have to lose? You’re miserable.
> 
> You are a creature of habit. You’ve tolerated this for years. Until you make a move and start heading down a new path, this is what you’re left with. She isn’t going to change. She doesn’t want to. You’re gonna wake up one morning 70 years old and still with her, having wasted your life with a frigid police woman for a wife.
> 
> Don’t think you’re suddenly going to grow a spine. It doesn’t happen. Plant the seed to start some growth by taking steps toward achieving the goal of getting loose from that anchor tied to your neck. Don’t even tell her. Just have her served the papers. Yes, she knows you’re suffering, and she doesn’t care.


Evin

I would have nowhere to live, that's what I got to lose. 

Yes small steps, which I've already taken.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> Evin
> 
> I would have nowhere to live, that's what I got to lose.
> 
> Yes small steps, which I've already taken.


Divorce, stay in the same house until you are or she ready to move out. and during the time start dating other people. 

Please dont let her trick into short term sex to keep you around. you can still do it but you need to continue moving forward


----------



## Evinrude58

T


Rebel81 said:


> Evin
> 
> I would have nowhere to live, that's what I got to lose.
> 
> Yes small steps, which I've already taken.


That should be your first priority. She knows this, so she knows you have to tolerate her.
People treat you in large part, how they are allowed to treat you. Your wife thinks you’re between a rock and a hard spot. Remove the rock.


----------



## Exit37

Rebel81 said:


> Evin
> 
> I would have nowhere to live, that's what I got to lose.
> 
> Yes small steps, which I've already taken.


OP, it can be done if you want to — you separate in house for the required 2 year (!!, crazy) period, then as you get to the end with the final D in sight, you put the house on the market so you can get rid of the big mortgage, split any proceeds and be ready to go your own ways and have the funds to rent two small apartments, or whatever, when the D is final. 

I read the entire thread and this is rough…. I guess what I don’t understand is why you haven’t started marriage counseling with your wife. A good counselor can help you make sure all the issues are out on the table, so they can be dealt with (or not, her choice) which should ensure you have clarity and won’t feel like you didn’t give the marriage your all if you end up filing for D. Insist on, say, 6 sessions of MC before you take the next step. If she doesn’t want to do it then be clear that it’s not an option, neither of you are happy so if she won’t do it you will just start the separation process with the goal of D after the required period of time passes.

Good luck, even if this ends in D you will be okay. You deserve better.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> T
> 
> That should be your first priority. She knows this, so she knows you have to tolerate her.
> People treat you in large part, how they are allowed to treat you. Your wife thinks you’re between a rock and a hard spot. Remove the rock.


Appreciate your opinion as always


----------



## Rebel81

Exit37 said:


> OP, it can be done if you want to — you separate in house for the required 2 year (!!, crazy) period, then as you get to the end with the final D in sight, you put the house on the market so you can get rid of the big mortgage, split any proceeds and be ready to go your own ways and have the funds to rent two small apartments, or whatever, when the D is final.
> 
> I read the entire thread and this is rough…. I guess what I don’t understand is why you haven’t started marriage counseling with your wife. A good counselor can help you make sure all the issues are out on the table, so they can be dealt with (or not, her choice) which should ensure you have clarity and won’t feel like you didn’t give the marriage your all if you end up filing for D. Insist on, say, 6 sessions of MC before you take the next step. If she doesn’t want to do it then be clear that it’s not an option, neither of you are happy so if she won’t do it you will just start the separation process with the goal of D after the required period of time passes.
> 
> Good luck, even if this ends in D you will be okay. You deserve better.


Yes it is certainly possible, just not so easy. 

We had sex 2 nights ago, she iniatiated in bed. It was great, she iniatiated. And after she orgasmed, she said she wasn't dead inside after all! 

Man, how sex distorts whatever thoughts I had beforehand.


----------



## Evinrude58

You do know that you’re being manipulated, abs that she’s doing it really easily to you, right?


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Yes it is certainly possible, just not so easy.
> 
> We had sex 2 nights ago, she iniatiated in bed. It was great, she iniatiated. And after she orgasmed, she said she wasn't dead inside after all!
> 
> Man, how sex distorts whatever thoughts I had beforehand.


Well, at least you are getting noticed.
She must have been feeling the 180 and decided she needed to turn it on.
Keep the pressure on her.


----------



## Exit37

Glad you had fun 2 nights ago. Insist on the MC, you know this won't get resolved without it.


Rebel81 said:


> Yes it is certainly possible, just not so easy.
> 
> We had sex 2 nights ago, she iniatiated in bed. It was great, she iniatiated. And after she orgasmed, she said she wasn't dead inside after all!
> 
> Man, how sex distorts whatever thoughts I had beforehand.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> You do know that you’re being manipulated, abs that she’s doing it really easily to you, right?


Of course, I've been out 3 times in the last week for drinks with my friends. I never go out that much. I've also been playing soccer a lot and going to the gym. She is feeling that I've got some new form of power/independance, whatever you call it and how better to rope me in by offering sex!!


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Well, at least you are getting noticed.
> She must have been feeling the 180 and decided she needed to turn it on.
> Keep the pressure on her.


I ain't stopping!


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> You do know that you’re being manipulated, abs that she’s doing it really easily to you, right?


When you have been treated a certain way for so long, its hard to comprehend that it is manipulation. 

Could it be that she felt close to me, with it being Xmas and all that and just wanted to have sex? 

The 180 is great in theory, but my wife has issues which she puts to the back of her mind, but they find a way out one way or another. 

Should i just continue on this path of self discovery only or a combination of that and trying to establish how she really feels?


----------



## Evinrude58

Reb,
You are so easily blinded by the p. Is it THAT good? I was with one of those once and that thing would indeed screw up a man’s mind.

why not look at the way she’s treated you the other 364 days of the year?
Is that stuff so good that once a year is good enough?
If so, just stay with her. If not, YOU have to decide if your life is how you want it to be and if not, take action to fix it.

I think filing for divorce and getting yourself in a position to carry through with that in two years, is a great way to:
Put some heat on your wife and get her in a pattern if treating you like a wife should.
Show her you’re tired of her bs. (Talk does nothing)
Gets you in a place where you don’t have to tolerate her bs in 2 years when it continues (I’m certain it will).
Helps you move forward with your life by taking the first step.

hell, if you’re gonna get ****ed into staying, at least get ****ed more than once a year.

She has shown you without the slightest doubt that she will treat you as badly as you allow her to. Why allow it? Be the man that attracts her—- the man that doesn’t tolerate ****ty treatment.

Be the best person you can be. But don’t be a doormat. What do you have to lose by filing?
She’s already showing you by giving you some sex, that she doesn’t want the status quo to change. At least have her actively working to keep you. Aren’t you worth her keeping you by making the smallest effort?


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Reb,
> You are so easily blinded by the p. Is it THAT good? I was with one of those once and that thing would indeed screw up a man’s mind.
> 
> why not look at the way she’s treated you the other 364 days of the year?
> Is that stuff so good that once a year is good enough?
> If so, just stay with her. If not, YOU have to decide if your life is how you want it to be and if not, take action to fix it.
> 
> I think filing for divorce and getting yourself in a position to carry through with that in two years, is a great way to:
> Put some heat on your wife and get her in a pattern if treating you like a wife should.
> Show her you’re tired of her bs. (Talk does nothing)
> Gets you in a place where you don’t have to tolerate her bs in 2 years when it continues (I’m certain it will).
> Helps you move forward with your life by taking the first step.
> 
> hell, if you’re gonna get ****ed into staying, at least get ****ed more than once a year.
> 
> She has shown you without the slightest doubt that she will treat you as badly as you allow her to. Why allow it? Be the man that attracts her—- the man that doesn’t tolerate ****ty treatment.
> 
> Be the best person you can be. But don’t be a doormat. What do you have to lose by filing?
> She’s already showing you by giving you some sex, that she doesn’t want the status quo to change. At least have her actively working to keep you. Aren’t you worth her keeping you by making the smallest effort?


Course its good. But it shouldn't be so good that I tolerate her **** tests.

If you were in my position, bear in mind, she has been very intimate the last week and I'm not so good at the intimacy outside the bedroom, although I will reciprocate, how you would behave going forward?

Of course my plan is to be strong and call her out when she throws **** at me. Someone mentioned MC, should that be put to her?

Evin, divorce is off the cards at the moment. Things aren't that bad that I'm realistically considering it.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> Course its good. But it shouldn't be so good that I tolerate her **** tests.
> 
> If you were in my position, bear in mind, she has been very intimate the last week and I'm not so good at the intimacy outside the bedroom, although I will reciprocate, how you would behave going forward?
> 
> Of course my plan is to be strong and call her out when she throws **** at me. Someone mentioned MC, should that be put to her?
> 
> Evin, divorce is off the cards at the moment. Things aren't that bad that I'm realistically considering it.


Remember she also highly highly likely she cheated. And highly possible if not certain she had threesome without you and while you were not getting any actions. 

And No, the sex you had was just pity/tactics/controlling to keep you in your current situation. Think of it as shot of morphine to numb any action in mind. She knows you and know how to control you.

I would also just in case test yourself fot std.


----------



## blackclover3

Take back the power


Redress the balance of your relationship




www.menshealth.com


----------



## blackclover3

This is how narcissists use sex to control you


Protect yourself from sexual narcissists by arming yourself with the understanding you need to find your strength again.




medium.com


----------



## blackclover3

Why do people withhold sex from their partners?


It can be a form or abuse, or a strategy used to deliberately avoid intimacy.




www.cosmopolitan.com


----------



## blackclover3

8 Signs Of A Manipulative Wife - Often Disguised As Love


Manipulation is an art, and that's why it is not easy to spot it. Here are 8 signs of a manipulative wife, and you will be surprised when you go to number 6.




www.bonobology.com


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> Remember she also highly highly likely she cheated. And highly possible if not certain she had threesome without you and while you were not getting any actions.
> 
> And No, the sex you had was just pity/tactics/controlling to keep you in your current situation. Think of it as shot of morphine to numb any action in mind. She knows you and know how to control you.
> 
> I would also just in case test yourself fot std.


Wow if that's the case I truly do not know her. The passionate kisses she showed was more than usual, very like the early years. 

The links below I'll certainly read. Just me and the kids for NYE.


----------



## blackclover3

Signs of Cheating (a Cheating Spouse/an Affair)


What is cheating, and how do you recognize it? Learn the signs of cheating and what to do if you think your spouse is being unfaithful.




www.webmd.com


----------



## Exit37

Rebel81 said:


> Wow if that's the case I truly do not know her. The passionate kisses she showed was more than usual, very like the early years.
> 
> The links below I'll certainly read. Just me and the kids for NYE.


What is she doing on NYE?


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel, everyone here contributed based on what they went though and what others had been through. You have the knowledge, feedback, and recommendation from all of us. 

I posted the links above and I will no longer contribute to this thread. 

Wish you all the luck


----------



## Rebel81

Exit37 said:


> What is she doing on NYE?


Working! If she was out on NYE, I would certainly be out also.


----------



## Openminded

Women learn early on how easy it is to manipulate most men by sex. Maybe it’s real and maybe it isn’t. Time will tell.


----------



## Exit37

Rebel81 said:


> Working! If she was out on NYE, I would certainly be out also.


Got it. I’m glad things are going well, and my recommendation is to leverage this to get her into MC. It’s clear that you love her and want to make this relationship to work, so sit her down, tell her that you have been really happy with the way things have been going between the two of you lately and you want to ensure that you continue to make your relationships stronger and stronger…. And you want her to agree to go to MC with you. Your choice, but like I said before, I really think you need that if you are going to have long term success in this marriage. Good luck.


----------



## SunCMars

Evinrude58 said:


> You do know that you’re being manipulated, abs that she’s doing it really easily to you, right?


The oldest lady trick in the book 

I would name it The Peter Principle, but that descriptive is already taken.

When a woman wants something from a man, she unzips his fly and removes all doubt and resistance from him.

Let us see how long this lusty behavior of hers last.

Maybe, she sees the light, maybe she fears the end coming.

Your, cumming, she hopes will put the end, out of sight, out of mind.

Men are such simple creatures.
We women know this well.

_Gwendolyn-_


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> The oldest lady trick in the book
> 
> I would name it The Peter Principle, but that descriptive is already taken.
> 
> When a woman wants something from a man, she unzips his fly and removes all doubt and resistance from him.
> 
> Let us see how long this lusty behavior of hers last.
> 
> Maybe, she sees the light, maybe she fears the end coming.
> 
> Your, cumming, she hopes will put the end, out of sight, out of mind.
> 
> Men are such simple creatures.
> We women know this well.
> 
> _Gwendolyn-_


You summed it up.

So see how long this lusty behaviour lasts? You all know the chances of that but let's see. Let's see if it's because I've not been so available, have been working out or is it pity sex, give him just enough to keep him in check!!

As mentioned already, she said I'm not dead after all after she came. I can read through that ****.


----------



## Evinrude58




----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> View attachment 95091


The best fiddle player in town...


----------



## SunCMars

Rebel81 said:


> The best fiddle player in town...


Fiddle Dee, Fiddle Dik.

Yours, strummed, stroked, and tingling, done!


----------



## Rebel81

SunCMars said:


> Fiddle Dee, Fiddle Dik.
> 
> Yours, strummed, stroked, and tingling, done!


The difference now being that I'm aware of whats she's doing. That's thanks to all you good folk of TAM.


----------



## Rebel81

Exit37 said:


> Got it. I’m glad things are going well, and my recommendation is to leverage this to get her into MC. It’s clear that you love her and want to make this relationship to work, so sit her down, tell her that you have been really happy with the way things have been going between the two of you lately and you want to ensure that you continue to make your relationships stronger and stronger…. And you want her to agree to go to MC with you. Your choice, but like I said before, I really think you need that if you are going to have long term success in this marriage. Good luck.


I agree. 

Can I ask if you've ever tried MC?


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> Remember she also highly highly likely she cheated. And highly possible if not certain she had threesome without you and while you were not getting any actions.
> 
> And No, the sex you had was just pity/tactics/controlling to keep you in your current situation. Think of it as shot of morphine to numb any action in mind. She knows you and know how to control you.
> 
> I would also just in case test yourself fot std.


String words there my friend. 

So no chance whatsoever that my so called wife just felt horny and wanted to have sex. 

Test for an std? We have sex without protection as she has a coil and we have been doing this, albeit not so much, for the past 12 months.


----------



## Exit37

Rebel81 said:


> I agree.
> 
> Can I ask if you've ever tried MC?


Yes I did, for several sessions a long time ago. The reason was very different than yours — my new wife and my mother didn’t get along, and it created a rift in my marriage - but it was definitely worthwhile. 

If you live in a large enough community where you have options, look online and see if your can find reviews of MC‘s in the area. If not, then just go for it. What do you have to lose? Make a list of the issues you’d like to tackle in the sessions, make a commitment to yourself that you will work on your share of the issues, and go for it. Good luck!


----------



## Exit37

Rebel81 said:


> String words there my friend.
> 
> So no chance whatsoever that my so called wife just felt horny and wanted to have sex.
> 
> Test for an std? We have sex without protection as she has a coil and we have been doing this, albeit not so much, for the past 12 months.


Yeah, OP I don’t know that there is really any evidence that your wife slept with anyone other than you. I think the issue here is her boundaries, and how she can balance helping you to feel safe in your marriage with the expectation about how she will act when around her cop friends. Isn’t that really at the root of all the issues you’ve described? That should be issue #1 that you tackled in MC.


----------



## Rebel81

Exit37 said:


> Yeah, OP I don’t know that there is really any evidence that your wife slept with anyone other than you. I think the issue here is her boundaries, and how she can balance helping you to feel safe in your marriage with the expectation about how she will act when around her cop friends. Isn’t that really at the root of all the issues you’ve described? That should be issue #1 that you tackled in MC.


Correct, that is the issue... A complete lack of boundaries. She has no idea. Her refusal to acknowledge a breach of "standard" boundaries is hard to believe.

I'd certainly be willing to try MC. I myself am in IC at the moment.


----------



## Evinrude58

Face the facts:
She has gone to parties overnight with a man you know was hot for her, and lied to you about it.
She teases you and rejects you constantly, and only gives you “passionate” sex when she senses you MIGHT be getting enough of her and considering moving on. Abs that is extremely rare. She needs her babysitter!

She’s just doing enough to keep you wrapped around her finger and safely tucked away as the security blanket and spider killer.

You are just not ready to move on, and may never be.

The fact that she told you “I’m not dead inside after all”……. Realize she knew that hurt you deeply, knew you were considering how awful a wife she was and knew she’d better smooth that crap over. Total manipulation. Very purposeful behavior, and my personal opinion is that the passionate kisses and sex is 100% an act.

she also may be bipolar and having a manic period in which she rarely hits. She may be more on the depressed end. Either way, not really a good choice for a life partner. I can tell you what the meds for bipolar disorder do—- no sex drive.

good luck.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Face the facts:
> She has gone to parties overnight with a man you know was hot for her, and lied to you about it.
> She teases you and rejects you constantly, and only gives you “passionate” sex when she senses you MIGHT be getting enough of her and considering moving on. Abs that is extremely rare. She needs her babysitter!
> 
> She’s just doing enough to keep you wrapped around her finger and safely tucked away as the security blanket and spider killer.
> 
> You are just not ready to move on, and may never be.
> 
> The fact that she told you “I’m not dead inside after all”……. Realize she knew that hurt you deeply, knew you were considering how awful a wife she was and knew she’d better smooth that crap over. Total manipulation. Very purposeful behavior, and my personal opinion is that the passionate kisses and sex is 100% an act.
> 
> she also may be bipolar and having a manic period in which she rarely hits. She may be more on the depressed end. Either way, not really a good choice for a life partner. I can tell you what the meds for bipolar disorder do—- no sex drive.
> 
> good luck.


Evin, you have given solid advice to date and I thank you for that. 

Since all you folk are more experienced and knowledgeable than I am, if she initiates any time soon, do I just go with it? If it goes beyond 2 weeks and she then tries over the weeks that follow, do I literally tell her this is bs and she needs to go see a doc to save our marriage? 

In the meantime, I'm heading out with some friends later. I've signed up to start a new hobby in a couple of weeks. I'm aiming for a promotion this year. Still making gains in the gym. Got a new wardrobe. All for my happiness.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Since all you folk are more experienced and knowledgeable than I am, if she initiates any time soon, do I just go with it? If it goes beyond 2 weeks and she then tries over the weeks that follow, do I literally tell her this is bs and she needs to go see a doc to save our marriage?


I'll try to keep this simple.
You have to decide whether or not you want to be married to her.
If the answer is yes, you have to take control.
To do that, you have to get to the point that any attempts to manipulate you on her part are futile.
You are doing well with the branching out.
Maintain, and redouble your efforts in doing so.
When she sees you pulling away, she will augment her efforts between the sheets.
However, you need to get her so rattled that she wants to discuss why you are pulling away.
When you reach that point, you can outline your requirements, one of which can be that she have a full physical workup.
If you think that counseling for her would be beneficial, or MC would be helpful, you can throw that in as well.
The point of all this is that you become the leader, instead of the led. That doesn't mean that there is not some give and take in the relationship, but that there will be parameters in the relationship and she will be expected to comply with those, as you will.
The shady s**t will be jettisoned and new, healthy, marriage friendly boundaries will be established. She will be expected to get with the program.
She has choices to make. I will propose three options you can give her.
Choice one: work on and fix the marriage.
Choice two: You do your thing, she does hers. Run it until it implodes.
Choice three: Divorce, carve up the carcass, and move on.
In other words the options boil down to: fixing the marriage, controlled deceleration, or rapid deceleration.
Either you are a priority for her or you are merely just the Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.
If you are the latter, that merely makes you an option.
Never settle for being an option.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> I'll try to keep this simple.
> You have to decide whether or not you want to be married to her.
> If the answer is yes, you have to take control.
> To do that, you have to get to the point that any attempts to manipulate you on her part are futile.
> You are doing well with the branching out.
> Maintain, and redouble your efforts in doing so.
> When she sees you pulling away, she will augment her efforts between the sheets.
> However, you need to get her so rattled that she wants to discuss why you are pulling away.
> When you reach that point, you can outline your requirements, one of which can be that she have a full physical workup.
> If you think that counseling for her would be beneficial, or MC would be helpful, you can throw that in as well.
> The point of all this is that you become the leader, instead of the led. That doesn't mean that there is not some give and take in the relationship, but that there will be parameters in the relationship and she will be expected to comply with those, as you will.
> The shady s**t will be jettisoned and new, healthy, marriage friendly boundaries will be established. She will be expected to get with the program.
> She has choices to make. I will propose three options you can give her.
> Choice one: work on and fix the marriage.
> Choice two: You do your thing, she does hers. Run it until it implodes.
> Choice three: Divorce, carve up the carcass, and move on.
> In other words the options boil down to: fixing the marriage, controlled deceleration, or rapid deceleration.
> Either you are a priority for her or you are merely just the Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.
> If you are the latter, that merely makes you an option.
> Never settle for being an option.


Thanks for your advice.

Option 2 is a non runner, 100%.

I want to make it work which is why I am here. I know people hate hearing it but it's at least for the sake of our kids. This woman is a natural born leader, very dominant. Was raising a child on her own for 10 years before I came along. She did have relationships over those years but none of those guys ever lived with her. Id love to ask them if this was something that bothered them I. E. Lack of boundaries etc.

I do know the last guy used to give out to her every time a male work colleague text her or called her. He also used to get mad at her if she ever spoke to another male in a bar etc. The latter is a bit extreme depending on the context.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your advice.
> 
> Option 2 is a non runner, 100%.
> 
> I want to make it work which is why I am here. I know people hate hearing it but it's at least for the sake of our kids. This woman is a natural born leader, very dominant. Was raising a child on her own for 10 years before I came along. She did have relationships over those years but none of those guys ever lived with her. Id love to ask them if this was something that bothered them I. E. Lack of boundaries etc.
> 
> I do know the last guy used to give out to her every time a male work colleague text her or called her. He also used to get mad at her if she ever spoke to another male in a bar etc. The latter is a bit extreme depending on the context.


Rebel, it doesn't matter what people hate hearing.
What matters is what you want and need. 
It's extremely obvious that you love your wife and want to save your marriage.
That's commendable.
However, you can't want it to a point that it damages you, or eliminates all agency that you have in the relationship.
There comes a point that if you want to fix it, you have to be willing to break it.
She's used to having it her way, and along the way, she probably communicated to these guys that it was her way or the highway. They chose the highway.
Hell, if nothing else, in her job she's probably so used to rolling over people that it is second nature to her.
Your role is to break this scenario. It is incumbent upon you to do so.
The leverage that you have is the continuation of the relationship. She seems to want to keep you around, if for no other reason, that it makes her life easier.
So she needs to arrive at the place that the current terms are unacceptable to you, and that major modification of those terms need to occur PDQ.
You accomplish that by making her feel some discomfort, and by letting her know and experience that the only way back is for her to modify her behaviors. However, you have to be willing to be the enforcer, you have to stand strong, and be willing to walk if she doesn't.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Rebel, it doesn't matter what people hate hearing.
> What matters is what you want and need.
> It's extremely obvious that you love your wife and want to save your marriage.
> That's commendable.
> However, you can't want it to a point that it damages you, or eliminates all agency that you have in the relationship.
> There comes a point that if you want to fix it, you have to be willing to break it.
> She's used to having it her way, and along the way, she probably communicated to these guys that it was her way or the highway. They chose the highway.
> Hell, if nothing else, in her job she's probably so used to rolling over people that it is second nature to her.
> Your role is to break this scenario. It is incumbent upon you to do so.
> The leverage that you have is the continuation of the relationship. She seems to want to keep you around, if for no other reason, that it makes her life easier.
> So she needs to arrive at the place that the current terms are unacceptable to you, and that major modification of those terms need to occur PDQ.
> You accomplish that by making her feel some discomfort, and by letting her know and experience that the only way back is for her to modify her behaviors. However, you have to be willing to be the enforcer, you have to stand strong, and be willing to walk if she doesn't.


Sound advice, one of the best on here. 

I totally see that she does take me for granted. And yet, finds ways of telling me that I'm self absorbed etc. I run this house while she does shift work, which is only right. But I give her the right to treat me like I'm a piece of dirt stuck on her shoe. 

It's a new year and I need to take control. 

I know most folk here are sick of hearing about it. I would too. The feedback is appreciated and valuable. 

You agree that the sex the other night was just about giving me enough breadcrumbs to stay around?


----------



## Evinrude58

I think Tdbo has given you good advice since you are going to continue in the marriage.

mine would be to keep building a life without her and emotionally detaching to the point you are able to let her go.

And my reason is this: Your wife’s lifestyle is not one that will ever be conducive to marriage. She is not going to stop doing thehurtful things she has done, she’s not going to turn into someone That WANTS sex with you on an even semi regular basis, and she’s probably a functioning alcoholic which is not Workable either.
She’d have to basically turn into a different person to make you happy. 
So stop worrying about her. Accept the sex, carry in like nothing is wrong, but start building a life without her and detaching. I think it’s likely that she may feel her hold slipping on you and give you more sex than you’ve had in the past to try to keep you in your place, but don’t think it will ever be at all like any normal husband would want. Believe me, there are a lot of guys here at TAM that have experienced bad sexual relationships after marriage or kids. I assure you that all women aren’t like thst. There are plenty of women that love sex until they’re dead. But I don’t think this is about sex only. It’s about the fact that you are not your wife’s priority like you make her. And I guess what I’m saying is you need to stop making her a priority, stop being her emotional punching bag, and stop accepting her bs.
The last part—- how will you stop accepting her rare jaunts with other men to the “work parties”?? I think I’d tell her that either you both attend or neither. But I’d tell her that after you’ve pulled away, you’ve detached, she knows you have, and see if she might actually start changing her behavior and showing you with actions that she actually cares about you.
Based on her past, that’s very unlikely.

You seem to still have her on a pedestal. Based on your last post. Kick her off, she doesn’t deserve it. Work toward having a great life even if she wasn’t around.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rebel81 said:


> I do know the last guy used to give out to her every time a male work colleague text her or called her. He also used to get mad at her if she ever spoke to another male in a bar etc. The latter is a bit extreme depending on the context.


 He may have had good reason to be that way.
Automatically assuming he was a control freak and she was an innocent little lamb runs completely counter to your whole story. I'm sure she had no boundaries with her exes as well.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel, coming from law enforcement back in my days, police officers tend to have a higher sex drive than any other profession for multiple reasons one of wish being physically active and the team building psychology training to work as one unit/team/partner, this create invisible bound between them. You will notice when you work in that field there are no red boundaries. They will talk about anything such as sex (main topic), intimacy and relationships etc....

Law enforcement and healthcare are the most affair places you will ever see. 

Im welling to bet anything that the only reason you are not getting anything because she is getting it from somewhere else.

I yet to see anyone in healthcate and law enforcement that lacks sex drive or even average sex drive.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> You agree that the sex the other night was just about giving me enough breadcrumbs to stay around?


Yup.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Yup.


Guys ill get to the other replies, but to me, if that's all the sex was, why the hell would I reciprocate the next time. Its like having no self respect for myself if I went through with it under those circumstances.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Guys ill get to the other replies, but to me, if that's all the sex was, why the hell would I reciprocate the next time. Its like having no self respect for myself if I went through with it under those circumstances.


Unless she can convince you that she is having sex with you because she desires you and wants to be with you, I'd in a somewhat tactful manner, take a pass.
Reward positive behavior.
Don't reward negative behavior.


----------



## Exit37

Lots of assumptions going on here. I still say your best bet is MC, with the primary topic being her lack of boundaries and what she can do to help you feel safe in the marriage.


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> Rebel, coming from law enforcement back in my days, police officers tend to have a higher sex drive than any other profession for multiple reasons one of wish being physically active and the team building psychology training to work as one unit/team/partner, this create invisible bound between them. You will notice when you work in that field there are no red boundaries. They will talk about anything such as sex (main topic), intimacy and relationships etc....
> 
> Law enforcement and healthcare are the most affair places you will ever see.
> 
> Im welling to bet anything that the only reason you are not getting anything because she is getting it from somewhere else.
> 
> I yet to see anyone in healthcate and law enforcement that lacks sex drive or even average sex drive.


That all makes sense. You work or worked in that profession, I didn't. 

What I will say is the sex tapered off as soon as she became pregnant with our oldest child. And it never came back like it used to be. Nowhere close. She was all over me for thr first 18 months, couldn't keep her hands off me. Sex at 4 in the morning when she came home from her shift, they were the days. 

She is now older and not as youthful in how she behaves and how she looks. 

There are no physical signs of her cheating (bar very little sex). She is home when she needs to be, doesn't work late albeit in cases of emergencies, doesn't even look after the area below the belt, doesnt wear sexy lingerie etc etc.


----------



## Rebel81

Rubix Cubed said:


> He may have had good reason to be that way.
> Automatically assuming he was a control freak and she was an innocent little lamb runs completely counter to your whole story. I'm sure she had no boundaries with her exes as well.


Boundaries don't exist. The last guy was apparently a Co trol freak. The guy before that (4 year relationship) never wanted to have sex with her. Turns out he is now gay. 

I mentioned the OM over 6 years ago and how his constant contact was bothering me, how she kept bringing him up and how funny he was, how she was fond of him, he even called to our house to give her a ****ing Easter egg for her and her daughter. There are countless other examples of this bs. 

Her reply to me was extremely defensive, that she did nothing wrong, it's just the way he is and without having to directly say it, that I should get over it. 

Let's not forgot the little trip they had 200 miles away and travelled together, which she failed to mention until after.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> Boundaries don't exist. The last guy was apparently a Co trol freak. The guy before that (4 year relationship) never wanted to have sex with her. Turns out he is now gay.
> 
> I mentioned the OM over 6 years ago and how his constant contact was bothering me, how she kept bringing him up and how funny he was, how she was fond of him, he even called to our house to give her a ****ing Easter egg for her and her daughter. There are countless other examples of this bs.
> 
> Her reply to me was extremely defensive, that she did nothing wrong, it's just the way he is and without having to directly say it, that I should get over it.
> 
> Let's not forgot the little trip they had 200 miles away and travelled together, which she failed to mention until after.


Man, that's a clear as... That they are forking, used to or still.

Defensive, hiding trip, and give these little things. Come on man, wake up bud. Do you think law enforcement care about lingerie or nice things? Dude, we we caught married female officers forking guys in prison bathroom, worse, one of them them has a husband that works for the same PD different location. 
Law enforcement like military, practical and dont look for nice things. In fact being in uniform and off uniforms is a turn on enough.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Her reply to me was extremely defensive, that she did nothing wrong, it's just the way he is and without having to directly say it, that I should get over it.


She should have suffered frostbite, from the cold generated from you at that moment.


----------



## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> She should have suffered frostbite, from the cold generated from you at that moment.


Hell yes. It happened at a time where i had no concrete proof, never knew about TAM and the games people play.


----------



## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Hell yes. It happened at a time where i had no concrete proof, never knew about TAM and the games people play.


Consider my response as a teachable moment. This is the moment where you establish boundaries (if you don't have them) or enforce them and call her out on her **** when she dishes it out. You either need to modify her behavior to an acceptable mode, or you need to curbside her and find someone who truly loves and respects you.

Times like these are when you whittle away, if you want to stay.


----------



## Evinrude58

I agree that she had sex with that guy on the 200 mile trip and likely had an affair with him.
If that coincided with a drop in sex, no doubt.


----------



## blackclover3

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree that she had sex with that guy on the 200 mile trip and likely had an affair with him.
> If that coincided with a drop in sex, no doubt.


I feel like even if he sees his wife in bed with the guy he will still find away to stay


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree that she had sex with that guy on the 200 mile trip and likely had an affair with him.
> If that coincided with a drop in sex, no doubt.


It didn't coincide with it, was probably a year later after the sex dropped off. But I'll never forget when she came home, she hugged me as always and said can we get close tonight. After we had sex later that evening, she started talking about the trip and how she dropped the OM home etc. I was mad and she knew that. How the **** can I ever know what happened? 

I then proceeded to post the same stuff I posted here on another well known forum and got the same replies as here.


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> I feel like even if he sees his wife in bed with the guy he will still find away to stay


I'm laughing at this one because everything points towards it. To confirm, I would not stay!!


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> It didn't coincide with it, was probably a year later after the sex dropped off. But I'll never forget when she came home, she hugged me as always and said can we get close tonight. After we had sex later that evening, she started talking about the trip and how she dropped the OM home etc. I was mad and she knew that. How the **** can I ever know what happened?
> 
> I then proceeded to post the same stuff I posted here on another well known forum and got the same replies as here.


This is a prime example of how your wife has used sex to keep you on your place and manipulate you. Can you see this?


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> It didn't coincide with it, was probably a year later after the sex dropped off. But I'll never forget when she came home, she hugged me as always and said can we get close tonight. After we had sex later that evening, she started talking about the trip and how she dropped the OM home etc. I was mad and she knew that. How the **** can I ever know what happened?
> 
> I then proceeded to post the same stuff I posted here on another well known forum and got the same replies as here.


This is called bonding after her guilt having sex with other guy. To get over her guilt.

She might thought you will keep pushing until she confess but you didnt.

Now after she got green light to keep forking him while you take care of the house and kids.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> This is a prime example of how your wife has used sex to keep you on your place and manipulate you. Can you see this?


It's as plain as day. Christ this ***** has played me so well. 

Yet more retrospection. We didn't have sex the night of our wedding, fair enough we were both drunk. Second night drunk again. But the third night when we came home, she was "too tired". Had sex maybe 3 times on honeymoon over the 10 day holiday.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> It's as plain as day. Christ this *** has played me so well.
> 
> Yet more retrospection. We didn't have sex the night of our wedding, fair enough we were both drunk. Second night drunk again. But the third night when we came home, she was "too tired". Had sex maybe 3 times on honeymoon over the 10 day holiday.


You're not gonna leave, are you? This is just your lot in life, live with it.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> It's as plain as day. Christ this *** has played me so well.
> 
> Yet more retrospection. We didn't have sex the night of our wedding, fair enough we were both drunk. Second night drunk again. But the third night when we came home, she was "too tired". Had sex maybe 3 times on honeymoon over the 10 day holiday.


So you’d rather get drunk than make love to your wife on your wedding night?
Sorry bro, I wouldn’t have gotten that drunk. That’s a special night.

are you both alcoholics?


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> So you’d rather get drunk than make love to your wife on your wedding night?
> Sorry bro, I wouldn’t have gotten that drunk. That’s a special night.
> 
> are you both alcoholics?


Evin, it's Ireland. Weddings go on until 4 in the morning. I wasn't so drunk that I didn't want sex or couldn't have sex. But we were both tired.same the second night. But the third night was telling.

No we are not alcoholics. We drink only when socialising. On average that could be once every 3 weeks.


----------



## Evinrude58

Yes that third night was the rest of your life.
That does indeed suck


----------



## Rebel81

blackclover3 said:


> This is called bonding after her guilt having sex with other guy. To get over her guilt.
> 
> She might thought you will keep pushing until she confess but you didnt.
> 
> Now after she got green light to keep forking him while you take care of the house and kids.


Yes and that was my thoughts afterwards. Unfortunately, I'll never have proof but I guess it's proof in itself. 

She was so defensive when I said it made me uncomfortable. Anger that I never seen before from her. What was really clear a few years later was something she said at the time but it never registered. She said "i did not sleep with him". I never accused her of sleeping with him, I never used those words. She literally told me without having to say it


----------



## Exit37

Rebel81 said:


> Yes and that was my thoughts afterwards. Unfortunately, I'll never have proof but I guess it's proof in itself.
> 
> She was so defensive when I said it made me uncomfortable. Anger that I never seen before from her. What was really clear a few years later was something she said at the time but it never registered. She said "i did not sleep with him". I never accused her of sleeping with him, I never used those words. She literally told me without having to say it


Well, it could have simply been that she thought that was what you were insinuating.

I don’t know OP, I really think there are a lot of assumptions being made here…. You’ve said yourself that she is always home when she’s not working, outside of these police get togethers that you say is just what cops in your country do several times per year.

There are some issues in your marriage that you and your wife need to resolve, that’s why I’ve been pushing for MC. And yes, there _could_ have been infidelity at one or more of these events in the past. But if so, she’s not been carrying on an ongoing affair given what you said about her always being home. Like I said before, the topic in MC should be her lousy boundaries and what she can/needs to do to make you feel safe in the marriage. Concentrate on that, and try to leave all the other assumptions and guessing alone for now. There is just no benefit in it for you.


----------



## Rebel81

Exit37 said:


> Well, it could have simply been that she thought that was what you were insinuating.
> 
> I don’t know OP, I really think there are a lot of assumptions being made here…. You’ve said yourself that she is always home when she’s not working, outside of these police get togethers that you say is just what cops in your country do several times per year.
> 
> There are some issues in your marriage that you and your wife need to resolve, that’s why I’ve been pushing for MC. And yes, there _could_ have been infidelity at one or more of these events in the past. But if so, she’s not been carrying on an ongoing affair given what you said about her always being home. Like I said before, the topic in MC should be her lousy boundaries and what she can/needs to do to make you feel safe in the marriage. Concentrate on that, and try to leave all the other assumptions and guessing alone for now. There is just no benefit in it for you.


You're completely right. 

I guess the past is the past. 

And no, there is no benefit in it. Thank you.


----------



## blackclover3

Rebel81 said:


> You're completely right.
> 
> I guess the past is the past.
> 
> And no, there is no benefit in it. Thank you.


No i disagree, the past is not the last, most likely she cheated. 
The guy doesn't have sex with his wife and for long time because possible she is forkking someone else 

Thats my opinion, Rebel like to deny this fact


----------



## Evinrude58

I disagree. You allowing her to get mad about you questioning her taking a 200 mile trip with a guy who is sweet on her (does one drive 200 miles with a man they’re not into), and shutting you down by having you scared you’re not going to get any more of that good stuff she threw out the night she got back—- and causing you to rugswerp is why you’re dealing with all her bs.

moving forward with all this unaddressed nonsense is the problem, not the solution.

Wheb I asked op if he and his wife were alcoholics…..if he was he’d have been pissed.

mid she wasn’t guilty of bad behavior, she’d be trying to work it out with him. As it was he’s been trying to work everything out with her. Reb, stop being a pushover and have her work this stuff out with YOU once on a while. You weren’t in the wrong. She was, and is


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> You're completely right.
> 
> I guess the past is the past.
> 
> And no, there is no benefit in it. Thank you.


Hey rebel how are ya? im curious i notice you said things have been better lately but it seems you still have issues with the past . i get it. 
is your wife going to possibly having more out of town trips in the future? going to social events without you? is she going to possibly be in situations where you will worry she is cheating?


----------



## Andy1001

Rebel81 said:


> Yes and that was my thoughts afterwards. Unfortunately, I'll never have proof but I guess it's proof in itself.
> 
> She was so defensive when I said it made me uncomfortable. Anger that I never seen before from her. What was really clear a few years later was something she said at the time but it never registered. She said "i did not sleep with him". I never accused her of sleeping with him, I never used those words. She literally told me without having to say it


Maybe she thought she may have gotten pregnant with her boyfriend and she needed to cover her ass.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rebel81 said:


> Boundaries don't exist. The last guy was apparently a Co trol freak. The guy before that (4 year relationship) never wanted to have sex with her. Turns out he is now gay.
> 
> I mentioned the OM over 6 years ago and how his constant contact was bothering me, how she kept bringing him up and how funny he was, how she was fond of him, he even called to our house to give her a ****ing Easter egg for her and her daughter. There are countless other examples of this bs.
> 
> Her reply to me was extremely defensive, that she did nothing wrong, it's just the way he is and without having to directly say it, that I should get over it.
> 
> Let's not forgot the little trip they had 200 miles away and travelled together, which she failed to mention until after.


That is exactly my point. She pulled the same BS on her exes as she is you.



Rebel81 said:


> *Its like having no self respect for myself* if I went through with it under those circumstances.


With all the crap you have let her get away with your self respect definitely seems to be lacking.

Read @Evinrude58 's post #846  over and over.


----------



## Rebel81

Rubix Cubed said:


> That is exactly my point. She pulled the same BS on her exes as she is you.
> 
> 
> 
> With all the crap you have let her get away with your self respect definitely seems to be lacking.
> 
> Read @Evinrude58 's post #846  over and over.


I think she must have done this same bs with exes going as far back as her teen tears. 

I'm reading it 💪

On the intimacy side, ny plan is to not initiate for the next month or so and see what she does. How can she be so passionate one night and then lose it for 6 weeks.


----------



## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> Hey rebel how are ya? im curious i notice you said things have been better lately but it seems you still have issues with the  past . i get it.
> is your wife going to possibly having more out of town trips in the future? going to social events without you? is she going to possibly be in situations where you will worry she is cheating?


Hey man, I'm doing good and you? I thought the recent desire shown by her was progress (maybe slight) but it turns out its likely just her trying to keep me here, fulfilling my babysitting duties. 

Eh yes would be the answer to that.


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Hey man, I'm doing good and you? I thought the recent desire shown by her was progress (maybe slight) but it turns out its likely just her trying to keep me here, fulfilling my babysitting duties.
> 
> Eh yes would be the answer to that.


If she was willing to turn on the taps for you, she would probably be making the attempt to repair the relationship. Even doing nice things regularly outside the bedroom.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> If she was willing to turn on the taps for you, she would probably be making the attempt to repair the relationship. Even doing nice things regularly outside the bedroom.


That's the thing, she does nice things for me alot. She will bring me breakfast in bed, look after certain chores if I'm unable, she will hug me, kiss me, hold hands, tell me she loves me regularly, buy me random gifts.


----------



## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> Hey man, I'm doing good and you? I thought the recent desire shown by her was progress (maybe slight) but it turns out its likely just her trying to keep me here, fulfilling my babysitting duties.
> 
> Eh yes would be the answer to that.


Yeah if she is going to be willingly putting herself in situations that will cause you to think she may be cheating will definitely drive you crazy.. I guess the best you can do is enjoy what you get until you pull the trigger on divorcing. I been doing good. Just got over nasty cold and back to work lol.


----------



## Exit37

Okay. I still stand by my previous comment, I see very little downside to MC. Clearly others think that you should just ****-can the entire marriage at this point, but I'm afraid that you will regret not trying to address your concerns in MC first if you do that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Exit37 said:


> Okay. I still stand by my previous comment, I see very little downside to MC. Clearly others think that you should just ****-can the entire marriage at this point, but I'm afraid that you will regret not trying to address your concerns in MC first if you do that.


I second this. I think there is a chance to save it. 

Have you considered telling her you just can't keep going on like this? Since Ireland requires 2 years separation before divorce is granted, and separation can be done in house, why not start that process AND go to counseling? If MC works then you can step back from the separation/divorce process. If it does you are a little further down the road to divorce.


----------



## Rebel81

Rebel81 said:


> That's the thing, she does nice things for me alot. She will bring me breakfast in bed, look after certain chores if I'm unable, she will hug me, kiss me, hold hands, tell me she loves me regularly, buy me random gifts.


So if she does and has always done these nice things, is she really just broken sexually or is I'm just not attractive enough?

I'm doing my best to be strong and assertive on any more **** tests she throws at me. But for the sex part, I really do think she is broken, temporarily I hope. She hates her body and I'm 100% on that. Her ex bf used to call her a fat ****. I'm now in the gym and looking fit if I do say so and trying to have more of an independant life which I won't be stopping.

Could she have just gotten too comfortable and it's now time to shake it all up? 

She isn't so much of a ***** which I make her out to be.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> I second this. I think there is a chance to save it.
> 
> Have you considered telling her you just can't keep going on like this?


Which part? She is well aware of the issues I have with our lack of sex life.

Mentioned that she should go to a doc, and then said angrily that she will go to the doc, but never did. It is currently taken a week to see a doc in Ireland.

Should I have a conversation with her tonight, nice and calm, and ask her to please see a doc. As far as she is concerned, we had sex a week ago and all is rosy in the garden for another few weeks.


----------



## Evinrude58

How often are you getting passionate sex from her? It sounds to me like she’s always been low drive, and sex isn’t important to her.
Waiting until the 3rd night after getting married to consummate a marriage is really unusual. REALLY unusual!!!!!!! Really really unusual.

she’s never going to change on the sex issue. Either you learn to live with it or divorce.
There are some women that don’t value sex with their husband but are perfectly happy with just being friends. If you want more than a roommate, she may just not be the one.
Waiting, seeing if she’s gonna change, etc…. Based on what you’ve described……, just isn’t going to happen.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> How often are you getting passionate sex from her? It sounds to me like she’s always been low drive, and sex isn’t important to her.
> Waiting until the 3rd night after getting married to consummate a marriage is really unusual. REALLY unusual!!!!!!! Really really unusual.
> 
> she’s never going to change on the sex issue. Either you learn to live with it or divorce.
> There are some women that don’t value sex with their husband but are perfectly happy with just being friends. If you want more than a roommate, she may just not be the one.
> Waiting, seeing if she’s gonna change, etc…. Based on what you’ve described……, just isn’t going to happen.


Make that the fourth night!! 

Evin, I want her to know that I cannot continue as things are. She needs to do something to save the marriage. As mentioned, we had sex last week, really "passionate" sex and we've been very close since. Holding hands, lying on the couch together, kisses etc. That's great, that's what a relationship is. She will continue all that but based on the past, the sex will get slack and I'll pull back on the intimacy outside the bedroom. 

Do I sit her down tonight to talk and seek action from her end? Because I bring it up maybe once every 2 months. So she is OK for another 7 weeks!!!


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Which part? She is well aware of the issues I have with our lack of sex life.
> 
> Mentioned that she should go to a doc, and then said angrily that she will go to the doc, but never did. It is currently taken a week to see a doc in Ireland.
> 
> Should I jve a conversation with her tonight, nice and calm, and ask her to please see a doc. As far as she is concerned, we had sex a week ago and all is rosy in the garden for another few weeks.


I think it is a good idea to talk to her again. Somehow you have to get the point across to her that sex is a need of yours. You love all the non-sexual things she does for you, but you need sex to keep your emotional bond strong and to keep you happy in general. And you need it more than once in a while, more than once a week. She is the only one that can help you with that. You need her to be your wife, your whole wife. If that means checking in with a doctor to make sure everything is right hormonally, then that is what she needs to do. Offer to help her in any way she needs to make the appointment happen. Several years ago my wife was suffering from a medical condition that was affecting her quality of life and our sex life. I tried many times to get my wife to get it taken care of based solely on her quality of life issues, but she kept dragging her feet. As I watched our sex frequency drop to once or twice a week I came out and told her, "I don't want to be in a sexless marriage." She got the message that this wasn't just about her, but about us. I went to every doctor visit. Even sitting in on gynecologic exams. I support in any way she needed. It took over a year of various treatments and procedures, but all is well now. Her quality of life issues are resolved and our sex life went back to where it should be. Recently she noticed some drop in her libido. She is in or near menopause. She decided to make an appointment with her doctor to get a hormone panel done. She knows it is important, so she is taking care of it. Somehow you need to get your wife to do the same. 

As far as her body image issues are concerned you need to make her understand you want and desire her exactly as she is. My wife is not happy with some parts of her body and appearance. When she complains about them I turn it around and tell her I love that part of her, it is part of who she is. Sometimes I'll even expose that part of her and kiss or caresses is lovingly. She doesn't like the extra belly fat she is carrying around, so I make it a point to put my hand right on that part of her as we cuddle and go to sleep at night. I constantly tell her how beautiful she is. I leave zero doubt in her mind that I think she is the most sexually attractive woman on the planet. She thinks I'm crazy, but so be it because I really do mean it. I think you need to do the same kind of thing. 

What amazes me is these behaviors, the ones that are appropriate outside of the bedroom, and other aspect of our interactions often occurred in front of our kids. They are adults now, both in long term relationships with one getting married this year. I see all of those behaviors in their relationships. I can't express how happy and proud that makes me. So remember, the kids are watching too. You are demonstrating how marriage works to them. 

In parallel to all that you need to continue to work on you, for you. Even if you experience a miraculous turn around in the sex department. I make it a point to go to the gym and stay in shape, as well as having my own hobbies and activities. I plan on being with my wife for the rest of my life, but at the same time I know that I would be okay without her. It would be painful and suck real hard for a while, but I would come out okay on the other side. This will keep you mentally and physically healthy, which can only benefit any relationship you are in, including your current marriage.


----------



## chazmataz33

Have you told her what you've told us? Actions speak louder than words as in hand her divorce papers? Show her you're done talking now it's time for walking!! Seems a little extreme but maybe the only way she's going to get it? Wish you luck man.


----------



## Evinrude58

I don’t think talking will do any good. You treat her as the woman you love all day, you go through bed and start doing your thing, not asking. If/when she rejects you, THAT is when you say something in a normal, unemotional voice. You say it’s been x days and no sex. If she is only good for sex one night out of 7 weeks, that is unacceptable to you and every other husband on the planet. Either you and she will schedule an appt with a doctor or ……. Or…….. or…….

see here’s the problem Reb. You are incapable of giving her any consequences. You’re willing to accept no sex for 7 weeks. So she knows there aren’t any. So when you get to the point in this conversation I can’t give you any advice. I know myself, and I couldn’t divorce the woman I loved like this. But I could easily divorce her long before this point because I wouldn’t feel loved at all and I need lots of sex. 
you havent Reached that point. She knows it.
So there’s not a lot you can do. Even though it’s two years away once you file, I don’t Advise filing unless you truly mean it.

you married a dud in the bedroom.
You’re the only one that can determine what you will and won’t accept for the rest of your life. So when she rejects you, my advice is to keep building a life without her and get to the point you can divorce her, or can stay with her happily. She’s got a long track record of being uncooperative. She’s just not going to change as much as you wish she would.

could the threat of divorce change her? Yes. But it could be just as likely that threat would have her looking for another man to marry her and be in a sexless marriage with her.
And monkey branch she would do.

you can’t fix this until you make up your mind you’re willing to demand she fix it or you will leave her. I really believe that. Even then, I think it’s more likely you’ll be forced to leave her. Btw, you’ve been given advice to seek marriage counseling. I don’t disagree, but I think both of you have to want it and she doesn’t. Besides that, I have zero confidence in marriage counseling therefore I couldn’t advise it.

the only hope you have at fixing this is to choose to lose it. And that hope is slim.

on a positive note: I think you could do better than a lady cop that won’t have sex with you except for manipulation to keep you as an appliance/babysitter.
And I don’t think it would be that hard. There’s a lot of lonely ladies out there.


----------



## Rebel81

chazmataz33 said:


> Have you told her what you've told us? Actions speak louder than words as in hand her divorce papers? Show her you're done talking now it's time for walking!! Seems a little extreme but maybe the only way she's going to get it? Wish you luck man.


She knows how I feel about the lack of sex, how it's soul destroying, she says she's the problem but I'm the one who suffers. As Evin has said and it's the crucial point, there have been no consequences. So talk is cheap.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think it is a good idea to talk to her again. Somehow you have to get the point across to her that sex is a need of yours. You love all the non-sexual things she does for you, but you need sex to keep your emotional bond strong and to keep you happy in general. And you need it more than once in a while, more than once a week. She is the only one that can help you with that. You need her to be your wife, your whole wife. If that means checking in with a doctor to make sure everything is right hormonally, then that is what she needs to do. Offer to help her in any way she needs to make the appointment happen. Several years ago my wife was suffering from a medical condition that was affecting her quality of life and our sex life. I tried many times to get my wife to get it taken care of based solely on her quality of life issues, but she kept dragging her feet. As I watched our sex frequency drop to once or twice a week I came out and told her, "I don't want to be in a sexless marriage." She got the message that this wasn't just about her, but about us. I went to every doctor visit. Even sitting in on gynecologic exams. I support in any way she needed. It took over a year of various treatments and procedures, but all is well now. Her quality of life issues are resolved and our sex life went back to where it should be. Recently she noticed some drop in her libido. She is in or near menopause. She decided to make an appointment with her doctor to get a hormone panel done. She knows it is important, so she is taking care of it. Somehow you need to get your wife to do the same.
> 
> As far as her body image issues are concerned you need to make her understand you want and desire her exactly as she is. My wife is not happy with some parts of her body and appearance. When she complains about them I turn it around and tell her I love that part of her, it is part of who she is. Sometimes I'll even expose that part of her and kiss or caresses is lovingly. She doesn't like the extra belly fat she is carrying around, so I make it a point to put my hand right on that part of her as we cuddle and go to sleep at night. I constantly tell her how beautiful she is. I leave zero doubt in her mind that I think she is the most sexually attractive woman on the planet. She thinks I'm crazy, but so be it because I really do mean it. I think you need to do the same kind of thing.
> 
> What amazes me is these behaviors, the ones that are appropriate outside of the bedroom, and other aspect of our interactions often occurred in front of our kids. They are adults now, both in long term relationships with one getting married this year. I see all of those behaviors in their relationships. I can't express how happy and proud that makes me. So remember, the kids are watching too. You are demonstrating how marriage works to them.
> 
> In parallel to all that you need to continue to work on you, for you. Even if you experience a miraculous turn around in the sex department. I make it a point to go to the gym and stay in shape, as well as having my own hobbies and activities. I plan on being with my wife for the rest of my life, but at the same time I know that I would be okay without her. It would be painful and suck real hard for a while, but I would come out okay on the other side. This will keep you mentally and physically healthy, which can only benefit any relationship you are in, including your current marriage.


Thanks for your back story and glad things turned around for you. 

At this point, I'll iniatiate next and if shut down, I want to tell her that she needs to see a doctor to save the marriage. She has never heard that before from me.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> I don’t think talking will do any good. You treat her as the woman you love all day, you go through bed and start doing your thing, not asking. If/when she rejects you, THAT is when you say something in a normal, unemotional voice. You say it’s been x days and no sex. If she is only good for sex one night out of 7 weeks, that is unacceptable to you and every other husband on the planet. Either you and she will schedule an appt with a doctor or ……. Or…….. or…….
> 
> see here’s the problem Reb. You are incapable of giving her any consequences. You’re willing to accept no sex for 7 weeks. So she knows there aren’t any. So when you get to the point in this conversation I can’t give you any advice. I know myself, and I couldn’t divorce the woman I loved like this. But I could easily divorce her long before this point because I wouldn’t feel loved at all and I need lots of sex.
> you havent Reached that point. She knows it.
> So there’s not a lot you can do. Even though it’s two years away once you file, I don’t Advise filing unless you truly mean it.
> 
> you married a dud in the bedroom.
> You’re the only one that can determine what you will and won’t accept for the rest of your life. So when she rejects you, my advice is to keep building a life without her and get to the point you can divorce her, or can stay with her happily. She’s got a long track record of being uncooperative. She’s just not going to change as much as you wish she would.
> 
> could the threat of divorce change her? Yes. But it could be just as likely that threat would have her looking for another man to marry her and be in a sexless marriage with her.
> And monkey branch she would do.
> 
> you can’t fix this until you make up your mind you’re willing to demand she fix it or you will leave her. I really believe that. Even then, I think it’s more likely you’ll be forced to leave her. Btw, you’ve been given advice to seek marriage counseling. I don’t disagree, but I think both of you have to want it and she doesn’t. Besides that, I have zero confidence in marriage counseling therefore I couldn’t advise it.
> 
> the only hope you have at fixing this is to choose to lose it. And that hope is slim.
> 
> on a positive note: I think you could do better than a lady cop that won’t have sex with you except for manipulation to keep you as an appliance/babysitter.
> And I don’t think it would be that hard. There’s a lot of lonely ladies out there.


Evin, as always, you're spot on.

There have been no consequences. It's like dealing with a child. I won't be serving her with divorce papers but she needs to know that she has to seriously start making an effort, in order to save our marriage.

Is she a dud? Quite possibly. She is very shy sexually. When we met at the start, we had a lot of sex but it was vanilla from her side. Apparently I introduced her to anal, 69. She cried one night after having an orgasm from oral as she said that was her first time experiencing it in that way. She has been called fat and was told by her ex that she was **** at bjs.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> I'm getting in shape, started going to the gym about 2 months ago. Also started going to the local bar recently (without her), I play a team sport twice a week.
> 
> I think it's a case that I will never compete with the comraderie she has with her male colleagues. As she calls them, they are her brothers, they understand her. Me and our family are secondary to all that. She shows no real interest in our kids. Yes she will care for them, make them food etc. But I also do all that as well as take them on walks, to the playground, play with them etc. She does not do that.
> 
> I've stopped initiating as of about 4 weeks ago. Still seeing my therapist who has told me to start building a life outside of her. How right he is. I'm starting to put that into motion, won't happen overnight, but I need to validate myself, not let her dictate my value.
> 
> So as harsh as your words are, they are right.


Remember YOU aren't her coworker you're her H, so no need to compete with her coworker. Just excel at being a complete man, and kill it being her HUSBAND.

And if it doesn't work out you'll still be ready for the future.


----------



## Rob_1

One thing that I haven't seen on your posts is her age, unless I missed it somehow. If she's late 30s to late 40s then she should be getting to the end of the high peak of her libido; which you are getting almost none of it. After menopause, chances are her libido will diminish more and more, and you will end up with nothing at the end.


----------



## Rebel81

Rob_1 said:


> One thing that I haven't seen on your posts is her age, unless I missed it somehow. If she's late 30s to late 40s then she should be getting to the end of the high peak of her libido; which you are getting almost none of it. After menopause, chances are her libido will diminish more and more, and you will end up with nothing at the end.


42 plus I've thought of that myself. Doesn't bode well


----------



## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> 42 plus I've thought of that myself. Doesn't bode well


Correct, it doesn't. At least with you. With somebody else, it might be a different scenario, at least for a while.


----------



## Evinrude58

A short while I suspect. Just long enough to rope another one in


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> I think she must have done this same bs with exes going as far back as her teen tears.
> 
> I'm reading it 💪
> 
> On the intimacy side, ny plan is to not initiate for the next month or so and see what she does. How can she be so passionate one night and then lose it for 6 weeks.


How? Because she is trying to manipulate you and keep you on the hook.


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> Evin, as always, you're spot on.
> 
> There have been no consequences. It's like dealing with a child. I won't be serving her with divorce papers but she needs to know that she has to seriously start making an effort, in order to save our marriage.
> 
> Is she a dud? Quite possibly. She is very shy sexually. When we met at the start, we had a lot of sex but it was vanilla from her side. Apparently I introduced her to anal, 69. She cried one night after having an orgasm from oral as she said that was her first time experiencing it in that way. She has been called fat and was told by her ex that she was **** at bjs.


A way to help combat her body image -- you just had sex with her. Ask her if there was ANYTHING during that wild passionate sex session that gave her any doubt that you find her attractive?


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> A short while I suspect. Just long enough to rope another one in


When she said she was not dead inside after all(after she came), why did you think that was manipulation? Is it that she really isn't dead after all and just had to play along with that story, and convince me that I have something to work with?


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> How? Because she is trying to manipulate you and keep you on the hook.


So let's see how the next 6 weeks go?


----------



## Beach123

Rebel81 said:


> So let's see how the next 6 weeks go?


And….
What deadline do you give to yourself?
You have never said what the consequences are if she doesn’t start respecting you.

What is YOUR boundary?


----------



## Evinrude58

Rebel81 said:


> When she said she was not dead inside after all(after she came), why did you think that was manipulation? Is it that she really isn't dead after all and just had to play along with that story, and convince me that I have something to work with?


She knew that hurt you and made you feel hopeless, could sense you were getting distant, and wanted to rope you back in by future faking you. It’s a common tool of manipulators. She wants you to think she still has feelings for you and is wanting to make you think she MIGHT change. And yes, you bit. You’re still there and now have some hope. I believe it’s false hope.


----------



## jlg07

Rebel81 said:


> So let's see how the next 6 weeks go?


I have NO issues at all with you trying to work on your marriage -- I think you should and not just throw it away without doing everything that YOU feel you need to.
Just posted that to make YOU aware of why she is doing it.


----------



## Rebel81

jlg07 said:


> I have NO issues at all with you trying to work on your marriage -- I think you should and not just throw it away without doing everything that YOU feel you need to.
> Just posted that to make YOU aware of why she is doing it.


I appreciate that.

But it's insane to think the woman I married would do something like that. Again, all hugs and kisses in bed last night, she loves me etc.

I'll be honest we've had the best Xmas as a family and as a couple this Xmas. Just need to sort this part (major part) out.


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## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> So let's see how the next 6 weeks go?


You can see how the next 6 weeks go.
Then it will be 6 months, then it will be 6 years.
As my dear grandmother used to say "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."
The point is she is what she is.
She may be manipulating you.
On the other hand, maybe she truly does not know any better.
Short of some overwhelming desire on her part to change the calculus, this is what you are going to get.
What you can do is fuel the desire for change.
As I have said several times, you can only do that by holding her fully accountable for her stuff.
You reward her when she does it right, she gets the negative sanction when she does wrong.
She has to learn that if she doesn't grow, you are going to go.
You may have to walk before she gets it.
Even if you walk, she might not get it.
That's life. You have to decide for yourself if the one you have is the one you want.


----------



## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> She knew that hurt you and made you feel hopeless, could sense you were getting distant, and wanted to rope you back in by future faking you. It’s a common tool of manipulators. She wants you to think she still has feelings for you and is wanting to make you think she MIGHT change. And yes, you bit. You’re still there and now have some hope. I believe it’s false hope.


Thanks for clarifying. 

Reckon she doesn't have any feelings?


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## Evinrude58

She has a lot of feelings. She feels entitled to your attention, support, fathering/babysitting skills, etc. she feels she doesn’t want to lose those things. So she feels she should give you all the breadcrumbs you need to keep you where you’re at.

if that orgasm were real, she’d likely be looking For others. Who doesn’t like orgasms?

there are lots of fakers out there


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## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> She has a lot of feelings. She feels entitled to your attention, support, fathering/babysitting skills, etc. she feels she doesn’t want to lose those things. So she feels she should give you all the breadcrumbs you need to keep you where you’re at.
> 
> if that orgasm were real, she’d likely be looking For others. Who doesn’t like orgasms?
> 
> there are lots of fakers out there


I don't believe she faked it. This was her clit BTW, not penetrative. 

So if she faked it or if she has always faked it, any idea how to find that out? 

Course we all like orgasm, but doesnt mean other **** won't get in the way.


----------



## Evinrude58

I hope I’m all wrong and you start getting sex at least 3 times a week which I feel is about average


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## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> I hope I’m all wrong and you start getting sex at least 3 times a week which I feel is about average


Any statistics I've read indicate once a week is about average. 

I'm enlightened!


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Any statistics I've read indicate once a week is about average.
> 
> I'm enlightened!


It is partly age dependent. Until you hit 60, three times a week is probably average, then it drops.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> It is partly age dependent. Until you hit 60, three times a week is probably average, then it drops.


Nope, never done it 3 times a week for several years. 

Mind me asking you age?


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Nope, never done it 3 times a week for several years.
> 
> Mind me asking you age?


I'm 54. I can still get it up every day if I want to.
You haven't done that, because the wife hasn't wanted it and not because you didn't want it.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> I'm 54. I can still get it up every day if I want to.
> You haven't done that, because the wife hasn't wanted it and not because you didn't want it.


I wanted it this morning but she didn't know that. She lay on my shoulder like in the foetal position, her hands tucked in between her legs. I was stroking her hair and kissed her forehead. I made some comment that she can't even touch me. Apparently I tainted the moment and she said OK, I won't hug you anymore then.

Is this really on me because I feel like she is manipulating me again? Or should I be apologising to her?


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> I wanted it this morning but she didn't know that. She lay on my shoulder like in the foetal position, her hands tucked in between her legs. I made some comment that she can't even touch me. Apparently I tainted the moment and she said OK, I won't hug you anymore then.
> 
> Is this really on me because I feel like she is manipulating me again? Or should I be apologising to her?


Is it possible that she might not be into men?
I'm serious when I ask that question. Women, who make a post about their husband's lack of interest, will sometimes be asked if their husband is gay because she will have done everything to interest him and not get a response. .
So, I'm just wondering about that?
I don't think anybody here has ever considered that, because the questions towards you have always been along the lines of something for you to fix.
If you're a cover for her, this may not be fixable.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> Is it possible that she might not be into men?
> I'm serious when I ask that question. Women, who make a post about their husband's lack of interest, will sometimes be asked if their husband is gay because she will have done everything to interest him and not get a response. .
> So, I'm just wondering about that?
> I don't think anybody here has ever considered that, because the questions towards you have always been along the lines of something for you to fix.
> If you're a cover for her, this may not be fixable.


Anything is possible.

I did have those thoughts before. I even mentioned it to her jokingly before that maybe she likes women and she wasn't impressed. As mentioned before she dated a guy for 4 years and they rarely had sex. Apparently it was him who didn't want it. She found out 2 years ago that he is now gay.

Like most women she will make comments about how beautiful women are. She doesn't really do that with men or make comments about them.

But just on this "hug", something I honestly wouldn't even have questioned before, was it a hug or would you be pissed if your wife did that? My plan this morning was to drop a hint that we could go to bed once she dropped the kids to school this morning. They returned to school today after the Xmas break. I didn't bother because she would always come up with some excuse.


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Anything is possible.
> 
> I did have those thoughts before. I even mentioned it to her jokingly before that maybe she likes women and she wasn't impressed. As mentioned before she dated a guy for 4 years and they rarely had sex. Apparently it was him who didn't want it. She found out 2 years ago that he is now gay.
> 
> Like most women she will make comments about how beautiful women are. She doesn't really do that with men or make comments about them.
> 
> But just on this "hug", something I honestly wouldn't even have question before, is that a hug. My plan this morning was to drop a hint that we could go to bed once she dropped the kids to school this morning. They returned to school today after the Xmas break.


At the very least, you've been friendzoned within your marriage.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> At the very least, you've been friendzoned within your marriage.


Most likely, but what exactly is it that makes you think that way?


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Most likely, but what exactly is it that makes you think that way?


Because you mentioned that she does a lot for you outside the bedroom. She's a good wife and mother, outside the bedroom. She's just nothing within the bedroom.
As a good friend, she's willing to cook for you and clean for you, give you a hug, bring a beer, etc. But she's not willing to be sexual with you.

I can do those outside bedroom activities as well, for anybody who is man or woman. It's nice being nice.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> Because you mentioned that she does a lot for you outside the bedroom. She's a good wife and mother, outside the bedroom. She's just nothing within the bedroom.
> As a good friend, she's willing to cook for you and clean for you, give you a hug, bring a beer, etc. But she's not willing to be sexual with you.
> 
> I can do those outside bedroom activities as well, for anybody who is man or woman. It's nice being nice.


Yes it all makes sense. I've told her recently that we it feels like we are just roommates. She gets angry when I insinuate such a thing, probably because she knows it's true. 

I'm really just waiting for the right time to tell her this "you need to fix this in order to save our marriage". As others have said, there are no consequences when she ignores my concerns. I've done everything on my side, everything!


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Yes it all makes sense. I've told her recently that we it feels like we are just roommates. She gets angry when I insinuate such a thing, probably because she knows it's true.
> 
> I'm really just waiting for the right time to tell her this "you need to fix this in order to save our marriage". As others have said, there are no consequences when she ignores my concerns. I've done everything on my side, everything!


I would be willing to give her one more chance at marriage counseling, on condition that she be willing lay her cards on the table. No matter what she has to say that is keeping her from being sexual with you, she must be willing to say it and you must be willing to listen without justifying your possible actions. That is not to say that you've done anything, but you must be prepared to listen to whatever she might have to say, even if it's something silly that just happened to be important to her. 

But if she isn't willing to do that, it's not fixable. You can't fix something that you don't know the why's of it being broken.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> I would be willing to give her one more chance at marriage counseling, on condition that she be willing lay her cards on the table. No matter what she has to say that is keeping her from being sexual with you, she must be willing to say it and you must be willing to listen without justifying your possible actions. That is not to say that you've done anything, but you must be prepared to listen to whatever she might have to say, even if it's something silly that just happened to be important to her.
> 
> But if she isn't willing to do that, it's not fixable. You can't fix something that you don't know the why's of it being broken.


Should this be a marriage counsellor who also specialises in sex therapy?

In the past, she has said that my moods or whatever don't allow her to become connected. Those moods are pretty much gone now. When I say moods, we may have had a small argument but it took me sometime before I would come around. That rarely happens these days and we will make up the same day. So it certainly isn't these moods that is the problem. We are very good at compromising, have sinloar interests, views etc.


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Should this be a marriage counsellor who also specialises in sex therapy?
> 
> In the past, she has said that my moods or whatever don't allow her to become connected. Those moods are pretty much gone now. When I say moods, we have had a small argument but it took me sometime before I would come around. That rarely happens these days and we will make up the same day. So it certainly isn't these moods that is the problem.


After 15 years, she will need help to revive that sex drive. I am unqualified to know whether it should be the same counselor or a different one for each function. 
I could see how moods can kill a drive. I could see how a woman could be turned off if she thinks the only reason that you are coming around, after rejecting her, is because you need to let off some steam. You might need some help in how to control your mood when you are disconnecting, so you don't disconnect. 

It may take the help of a relationship coach to know how to restart a relationship, because you guys are kind of starting over in a way, having been disconnected for fifteen years.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> After 15 years, she will need help to revive that sex drive. I am unqualified to know whether it should be the same counselor or a different one for each function.
> I could see how moods can kill a drive. I could see how a woman could be turned off if she thinks the only reason that you are coming around, after rejecting her, is because you need to let off some steam. You might need some help in how to control your mood when you are disconnecting, so you don't disconnect.
> 
> It may take the help of a relationship coach to know how to restart a relationship, because you guys are kind of starting over in a way, having been disconnected for fifteen years.


Just to clarify we are together 10 years. 

I take full responsibility but these aren't so much moods. We fall out, we don't talk properly for a day or 2. It rarely happens these days. I thought that would be pretty normal. 

I would certainly be willing to take direction or advice on my part.


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Just to clarify we are together 10 years.
> 
> I take full responsibility but these aren't so much moods. We fall out, we don't talk properly for a day or 2. It rarely happens these days. I thought that would be pretty normal.
> 
> I would certainly be willing to take direction or advice on my part.


That is something I would bring up for yourself, if you guys do the counselling. Ask how you can work to stay connected, when you are disconnecting, for whatever reason you are disconnecting.
I can only suggest taking time to care for her, even when you're mad at her.
Something like this.


----------



## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> That is something I would bring up for yourself, if you guys do the counselling. Ask how you can work to stay connected, when you are disconnecting, for whatever reason you are disconnecting.
> I can only suggest taking time to care for her, even when you're mad at her.
> Something like this.
> View attachment 95230


Yes we do hold "umbrellas" for one another, despite the disconnect.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> I wanted it this morning but she didn't know that. She lay on my shoulder like in the foetal position, her hands tucked in between her legs. I was stroking her hair and kissed her forehead. I made some comment that she can't even touch me. Apparently I tainted the moment and she said OK, I won't hug you anymore then.
> 
> Is this really on me because I feel like she is manipulating me again? Or should I be apologising to her?


Why would you make that comment in this context? Just based on this single post I think you should apologize. If you wanted her to put her hand on you then say that, not a snarky comment. I'm with your wife on this one. You took a close and intimate and with just a few words you turned in completely negative. Why wouldn't you just tell her, I like this, but it would be great to have your hand up here on my chest.


----------



## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Why would you make that comment in this context? Just based on this single post I think you should apologize. If you wanted her to put her hand on you then say that, not a snarky comment. I'm with your wife on this one. You took a close and intimate and with just a few words you turned in completely negative. Why wouldn't you just tell her, I like this, but it would be great to have your hand up here on my chest.


I accept that, no excuses.


----------



## UAArchangel

Rebel81 said:


> Yes we do hold "umbrellas" for one another, despite the disconnect.


From your earlier comment, it seems that you have a bit of tendency to isolate yourself if you had a tense moment with the wife. I can see she might feel disconnected when that happens. From what I have read in TAM, a woman's sexual response is correlated with how secure she feels with you.

I have found that many of the posts here, where the woman becomes attracted to somebody other than her husband often has started when the husband made her feel insecure about her connection with him. The husband might have, for example, threatened a divorce after a big arguement. Or perhaps, in your case, you might have gone into your own little world a little too long.


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## Rebel81

UAArchangel said:


> From your earlier comment, it seems that you have a bit of tendency to isolate yourself if you had a tense moment with the wife. I can see she might feel disconnected when that happens. From what I have read in TAM, a woman's sexual response is correlated with how secure she feels with you.
> 
> I have found that many of the posts here, where the woman becomes attracted to somebody other than her husband often has started when the husband made her feel insecure about her connection with him. The husband might have, for example, threatened a divorce after a big arguement. Or perhaps, in your case, you might have gone into your own little world a little too long.


That all makes sense and overtime I've gotten much better at it. As of this small incident this morning, I've gone to my wife and apologised to her. I might get crucified by other posters but I think im this particular circumstance, I was wrong. It was she who came to me this morning, and I reacted in the wrong way.


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## Exit37

Rebel81 said:


> I wanted it this morning but she didn't know that. She lay on my shoulder like in the foetal position, her hands tucked in between her legs. I was stroking her hair and kissed her forehead. I made some comment that she can't even touch me. Apparently I tainted the moment and she said OK, I won't hug you anymore then.
> 
> Is this really on me because I feel like she is manipulating me again? Or should I be apologising to her?


OP, don't play games with her. If you want something, say what you want. You were having a nice cuddle in bed, so say "hey, I'll get the kids off to school, when I get back do you want to meet me here for some adult time?" or something to that effect. It might work or it might not, but saying something like "you can't even touch me" in this situation was certainly not going to work. You need to change the tenor of your conversations with her...


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## Rebel81

Exit37 said:


> OP, don't play games with her. If you want something, say what you want. You were having a nice cuddle in bed, so say "hey, I'll get the kids off to school, when I get back do you want to meet me here for some adult time?" or something to that effect. It might work or it might not, but saying something like "you can't even touch me" in this situation was certainly not going to work. You need to change the tenor of your conversations with her...


I definitely am not playing with her. 

That was the plan in my head but it wouldn't come out. The not touching part wasn't some way to be sexual with her, it was just something I noticed. But I was wrong and over analysed it.


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## Exit37

Rebel81 said:


> I definitely am not playing with her.
> 
> That was the plan in my head but it wouldn't come out. The not touching part wasn't some way to be sexual with her, it was just something I noticed. But I was wrong and over analysed it.


Yep that conversation needs to be had - with an MC present, in my opinion - but that was the wrong place & time for the convo.


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## Livvie

Rebel81 said:


> Yes it all makes sense. I've told her recently that we it feels like we are just roommates. She gets angry when I insinuate such a thing, probably because she knows it's true.
> 
> I'm really just waiting for the right time to tell her this "you need to fix this in order to save our marriage". As others have said, there are no consequences when she ignores my concerns. I've done everything on my side, everything!


You don't "feel" like you are just roommates, you ARE just roommates. Next time phrase it as what it is. There's nothing to debate about it. You do not have the dynamic of an intimate sexual relationship....which is what a marriage is. 

There's no fixing this. _This_ is who she is in a marriage, as a "wife". She's a friend roommate in a marriage, that's what a relationship is to her. 

Nothing is going to turn her into a healthy dynamic happy great marriage partner. Nothing. Not in this lifetime.


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## Rebel81

Livvie said:


> You don't "feel" like you are just roommates, you ARE just roommates. Next time phrase it as what it is. There's nothing to debate about it. You do not have the dynamic of an intimate sexual relationship....which is what a marriage is.
> 
> There's no fixing this. _This_ is who she is in a marriage, as a "wife". She's a friend roommate in a marriage, that's what a relationship is to her.
> 
> Nothing is going to turn her into a healthy dynamic happy great marriage partner. Nothing. Not in this lifetime.


Thanks Livvie.

You seem so certain, have you seen this before? 

The woman hasn't tried anything. She could be a lesbian, asexual, damaged, having an affair, unattracted to me. IT'S A FLAMING MYSTERY!


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## Rob_1

Rebel81 said:


> The woman hasn't tried anything. She could be a lesbian, asexual, damaged, having an affair, unattracted to me. IT'S A FLAMING MYSTERY!


Then, why don't you just ask why? If it were me, I would tell her> I need to ask you a question, and I need a definite answer now, then ask the question as what it is? are you some form of an asexual, not attracted physically to me, having an affair with a man or woman, or what, for you not to desire to have sex with me?


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## Livvie

Rebel81 said:


> Thanks Livvie.
> 
> You seem so certain, have you seen this before?
> 
> The woman hasn't tried anything. She could be a lesbian, asexual, damaged, having an affair, unattracted to me. IT'S A FLAMING MYSTERY!


What's not a mystery is how she has behaved as your wife the entirety of your marriage!! It's who she is!


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## Evinrude58

All this relationship stuff that people on here abs these shrinks make sound soooooo complex and all this : If she feels this and that, because you do thus and that. Blah blah blah……..,,, It’s total bs.

Stop trying to figure out something that you haven’t figured out in ten years.
She isn’t having sex with you because she doesn’t want to. Why do you care what the reason is, if you have begged her to tell you so you can fix it? You’ve said you’ve done everything you can think of. You’re left begging for breadcrumbs when other people are feasting. 

How to fix you hound dog that won’t run a rabbit:

answer: You can’t. You literally cannot train a dog to hunt. They either have the instinct or they don’t.
you give him away for a pet and get a hound dog that does like running rabbits.

Its the same dang way with women. People let themselves get attached to crappy women and accept their Crappy ways.

The only solution is to stop accepting their bad behavior and give them a concrete option- Shape up or ship out. There’s nothing wrong with doing that when you have a wife that no longer resembles a wife.


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## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> I wanted it this morning but she didn't know that. She lay on my shoulder like in the foetal position, her hands tucked in between her legs. I was stroking her hair and kissed her forehead. I made some comment that she can't even touch me. Apparently I tainted the moment and she said OK, I won't hug you anymore then.
> 
> Is this really on me because I feel like she is manipulating me again? Or should I be apologising to her?


no you shouldn’t be apologizing.

this was not an “incident”, it is a sign.

it’s a sign she doesn’t want to be intimate with you, does not want to touch you, and does not want to have any meaningful discussion about it.

if she wanted to be intimate with you - she would.

if she wanted to lay her hands on you - she would.

and if she was agreeable to have a meaningful discussion about the disconnect, she wouldn’t be making snarky comments and recoiling away from you any time you made a comment about her behavior.


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## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> no you shouldn’t be apologizing.
> 
> this was not an “incident”, it is a sign.
> 
> it’s a sign she doesn’t want to be intimate with you, does not want to touch you, and does not want to have any meaningful discussion about it.
> 
> if she wanted to be intimate with you - she would.
> 
> if she wanted to lay her hands on you - she would.
> 
> and if she was agreeable to have a meaningful discussion about the disconnect, she wouldn’t be making snarky comments and recoiling away from you any time you made a comment about her behavior.


I would agree except most times she will actually put her hands around me or on me, so what happened doesn't happen to often.

Can you then say she doesn't want to touch me when she does?

I overanalysed it, a moment of weakness, I should have said nothing. I mean if she didn't want to be close to me she wouldnt have came over and lay her head on my shoulder. Ya feels like a friend, I know, I know.


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## Livvie

Rebel81 said:


> I would agree except most times she will actually put her hands around me or on me, so what happened doesn't happen to often.
> 
> Can you then say she doesn't want to touch me when she does?
> 
> I overanalysed it, a moment of weakness, I should have said nothing. I mean if she didn't want to be close to me she wouldnt have came over and lay her head on my shoulder. Ya feels like a friend, I know, I know.


Well, I put my head on my dog's shoulder, and belly, etc. and lay next to him and hug him so yeah, you really shouldn't read too much into it.


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## oldshirt

@Rebel81 

as a little homework assignment and mental exercise, I want you to do something.

Really do some thoughtful self exploration and thing about how you would act and react if for whatever reason you were with a 300lb bearded woman with BO and bad breath.

Think about how you would act and react any time she wanted to be close and intimate with you.

How would your body respond to your overtures and attempts to be intimate.

you could be polite to her and even do some pal and Buddy stuff with her.

but how would you act and react whenever she tries to cuddle you and schmooze you up?

if she were trying to cuddle you and stroke you up and get more lovins out of you and you were trying to keep somewhat of an arm’s distance between you and keeping your hands to yourself so she wouldn’t get any ideas and she called you out for it, would you think, “oh, my mistake!” And start stroking her up and loving her up?

more would you take that as a sign you were trying to accommodate her by giving her an inch but she was trying to take a mile and you’d take that as your sign to exit stage-left?

should she apologize for wanting to be close and cuddly with you and inquiring why you were keeping your distance?? 

What would be the long term solution to this situation? 

would you ever be able to be intimate and provide the love and romance and affection and sexuality that a 300lb bearded woman may want from you??

now I am not saying that you are a bad looking guy? You may be movie star or male model material for all I know.

but to her, you are the 300lb bearded woman in her eyes.


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## oldshirt

Rebel81 said:


> I would agree except most times she will actually put her hands around me or on me, so what happened doesn't happen to often.
> 
> Can you then say she doesn't want to touch me when she does?
> 
> I overanalysed it, a moment of weakness, I should have said nothing. I mean if she didn't want to be close to me she wouldnt have came over and lay her head on my shoulder. Ya feels like a friend, I know, I know.


You’re thinking like a guy. 
For a guy, if he is putting his arms around someone and touching etc, it’s because he wants to be sexually intimate with her unless he’s giving his mother or his Aunt Beulah a familial hug. 

You can’t take a male metric and measure a female’s response with it. 

you have to use a female metric to measure a woman’s sexual response.

so what is a female metric to measure a woman’s desire to have sex you ask??

it’s that they actually have sex.

that’s how you measure a woman’s sexual interest.

assuming it’s not rape or duty sex under the threat of divorce or some other kind of coercive example, if a woman wants to have sex, she does.

if she doesn’t have sex, it’s because she doesn’t want to.

what’s the number 1 reason a woman does not want to have sex with a given man?

Answer = She’s not sexually attracted to him.


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## Rebel81

oldshirt said:


> @Rebel81
> 
> as a little homework assignment and mental exercise, I want you to do something.
> 
> Really do some thoughtful self exploration and thing about how you would act and react if for whatever reason you were with a 300lb bearded woman with BO and bad breath.
> 
> Think about how you would act and react any time she wanted to be close and intimate with you.
> 
> How would your body respond to your overtures and attempts to be intimate.
> 
> you could be polite to her and even do some pal and Buddy stuff with her.
> 
> but how would you act and react whenever she tries to cuddle you and schmooze you up?
> 
> if she were trying to cuddle you and stroke you up and get more lovins out of you and you were trying to keep somewhat of an arm’s distance between you and keeping your hands to yourself so she wouldn’t get any ideas and she called you out for it, would you think, “oh, my mistake!” And start stroking her up and loving her up?
> 
> more would you take that as a sign you were trying to accommodate her by giving her an inch but she was trying to take a mile and you’d take that as your sign to exit stage-left?
> 
> should she apologize for wanting to be close and cuddly with you and inquiring why you were keeping your distance??
> 
> What would be the long term solution to this situation?
> 
> would you ever be able to be intimate and provide the love and romance and affection and sexuality that a 300lb bearded woman may want from you??
> 
> now I am not saying that you are a bad looking guy? You may be movie star or male model material for all I know.
> 
> but to her, you are the 300lb bearded woman in her eyes.


Great analogy.

Maybe it is because I'm unattractive to her, or it could be all the other reasons, her mental health, her own self image, her weight gain, her anxiety, her hormones, having an affair, hell who knows.

I'm in the gym at the moment making gains. I'm waiting for the right time to sit her down to fix this once and for all or I'm done.


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## Rebel81

Livvie said:


> Well, I put my head on my dog's shoulder, and belly, etc. and lay next to him and hug him so yeah, you really shouldn't read too much into it.


So as a female, if you cuddled up to your man every night, touched him during the day, told him you love him, that you find him attractive, and now and again you iniatitae sex with him, are you saying you could still be sexually repulsed by him yet do and say all of the above? 

And you iniatiate sex with him to keep him there, as the babysitter, provider, dishwasher etc?


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## Rebel81

Is tonight as a good a time to discuss the issue with her? 

Am to be as blunt as we are roommates, you have not done anything to resolve the sex issues we have despite telling me you would. I'm unhappy and cannot live as roommates.


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## Livvie

Rebel81 said:


> So as a female, if you cuddled up to your man every night, touched him during the day, told him you love him, that you find him attractive, and now and again you iniatitae sex with him, are you saying you could still be sexually repulsed by him yet do and say all of the above?
> 
> And you iniatiate sex with him to keep him there, as the babysitter, provider, dishwasher etc?


It sounds like she never was a warm, passionate, enthusiastic sexual partner who wanted frequent regular ongoing sex with you. 

_I don't think she's repulsed by you_. I think she's merely not cut out to be a sexual partner in a monogamous relationship with a man who wants to have a healthy connected passionate ongoing sexual relationship. Sure she likes to cuddle you. I'm not sexually attracted to my dog but I love to hug and snuggle him!!! I also loved to snuggle and cuddle my kids when they were little!!


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## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Is tonight as a good a time to discuss the issue with her?
> 
> Am to be as blunt as we are roommates, you have not done anything to resolve the sex issues we have despite telling me you would. I'm unhappy and cannot live as roommates.


Every minute you wait is another minute you are unhappy.


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## Livvie

Livvie said:


> It sounds like she never was a warm, passionate, enthusiastic sexual partner who wanted frequent regular ongoing sex with you.
> 
> _I don't think she's repulsed by you_. I think she's merely not cut out to be a sexual partner in a monogamous relationship with a man who wants to have a healthy connected passionate ongoing sexual relationship. Sure she likes to cuddle you. I'm not sexually attracted to my dog but I love to hug and snuggle him!!! I also loved to snuggle and cuddle my kids when they were little!!


ETA I think my dog is beautiful, too, and tell him "you are a beautiful boy". 

Just because she likes to cuddle you and says you are attractive doesn't mean she is cut out to be a long term sexual partner in a marriage. SHE'S NOT.


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## Evinrude58

I do NOT think it’s the right time to discuss it with her for two reasons:

1) you’re not yet ready to give real consequences.
2) she’s not going to discuss it with you. She’s going to A) shut the discussion down 
B) she’s going to make excuses and placate you


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## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> Every minute you wait is another minute you are unhappy.





Evinrude58 said:


> I do NOT think it’s the right time to discuss it with her for two reasons:
> 
> 1) you’re not yet ready to give real consequences.
> 2) she’s not going to discuss it with you. She’s going to A) shut the discussion down
> B) she’s going to make excuses and placate you


 Lol which one is it guys? 

Evin, she has never been given any consequences. At least if its done now, then time will tell.


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## Rebel81

Livvie said:


> ETA I think my dog is beautiful, too, and tell him "you are a beautiful boy".
> 
> Just because she likes to cuddle you and says you are attractive doesn't mean she is cut out to be a long term sexual partner in a marriage. SHE'S NOT.


Yes correct. 

She also has never had any consequences so any sexual issues, be they physical mental or whatever, have never had to be addressed.


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## Evinrude58

You are not willing to divorce her. What other consequence is fitting?

I don’t suggest you bluff on that. Wait until you’re serious about it, then.

Your wife is not going to be bluffed. She’s been reading you correctly for years.

Yes, I think you should divorce her. But, you are not ready for that. Don’t do things you’re not really going to follow through on.


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## BigDaddyNY

Rebel81 said:


> Lol which one is it guys?
> 
> Evin, she has never been given any consequences. At least if its done now, then time will tell.


It is both. Do it now, but if you aren't willing to exact any kind of consequence then why bother?


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## Rebel81

BigDaddyNY said:


> It is both. Do it now, but if you aren't willing to exact any kind of consequence then why bother?


Not tonight. 

It's little woman's Christmas here in Ireland and she was expecting something from me. Instead my plan was to go to the gym, after working all day and then having the kids etc until 8pm. Most if not all women go out for this special night and men do all the chores. The latter was done 😡

I went to the gym!


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## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> Not tonight.
> 
> It's little woman's Christmas here in Ireland and she was expecting something from me. Instead my plan was to go to the gym, after working all day and then having the kids etc until 8pm. Most if not all women go out for this special night and men do all the chores. The latter was done 😡
> 
> I went to the gym!


hey brother how are you holding up? any progress?


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## Rebel81

TheGodfather said:


> hey brother how are you holding up? any progress?


I'm good man. Personally I'm always making progress.

Relationship wise, meh. I'll sit her down some day soon and lay out my cards.


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## TheGodfather

Rebel81 said:


> I'm good man. Personally I'm always making progress.
> 
> Relationship wise, meh. I'll sit her down some day soon and lay out my cards.


yeah sometimes that's the best way. put your cards on table and see what happens.. what's the worst that can happen? she withholds sex .. sorry bad joke brother.. i hope you make some progress though one way or another


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## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> Not tonight.
> 
> It's little woman's Christmas here in Ireland and she was expecting something from me. Instead my plan was to go to the gym, after working all day and then having the kids etc until 8pm. Most if not all women go out for this special night and men do all the chores. The latter was done 😡
> 
> I went to the gym!


I take it that she is aware of your displeasure now.😁


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## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> I take it that she is aware of your displeasure now.😁


No no no... She isn't.

I did my own thing, something I stopped doing years ago.


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## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> No no no... She isn't.
> 
> I did my own thing, something I stopped doing years ago.


I thought you meant that she didn't get to go out on this event evening.
If you didn't cater to her, you sent a message.
The key is what was her reaction?


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## Evinrude58

So you’ve realized that the good sex a few days ago was indeed manipulation? Abs that it wasn’t happening again until she felt it was necessary to achieve her goals?


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## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> I thought you meant that she didn't get to go out on this event evening.
> If you didn't cater to her, you sent a message.
> The key is what was her reaction?


She could have went out if she wanted to, but she didn't make plans to go out with other women. She mentioned that all her male colleagues were going home to mind their kids so their wives could go out. My reply was why didn't you make plans?!! Her reply, she is working in the morning. So then what's the problem?! 

Her reaction was anger as I was going out to the gym. I asked her why she was getting angry, she had no answer.

She also wasn't impressed that I'm away so much lately. Yes it is a message.


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## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> So you’ve realized that the good sex a few days ago was indeed manipulation? Abs that it wasn’t happening again until she felt it was necessary to achieve her goals?


So gets me to do whatever, and then gives sex. Ya, it's all conditional Evin. 

Almost like NMMNG where there are covert contracts. Hers are becoming more overt by the day


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## Tdbo

Rebel81 said:


> So gets me to do whatever, and then gives sex. Ya, it's all conditional Evin.
> 
> Almost like NMMNG where there are covert contracts. Hers are becoming more overt by the day


Rebel, take the sex.
Just don't allow yourself to be manipulated by it.


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## Evinrude58

Why the heck is she gonna go out of all the guys are at home???? Done told off on herself. It’s not the girls she’s wanting to hang out with.


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## Rebel81

Tdbo said:


> Rebel, take the sex.
> Just don't allow yourself to be manipulated by it.


Easier said than done, but I'm trying to be conscious/aware anytime she pulls some kind of a **** move like that.


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## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> Why the heck is she gonna go out of all the guys are at home???? Done told off on herself. It’s not the girls she’s wanting to hang out with.


Believe it or not, she goes out with girls occasionally. 

The point here was that she never had any intention to go out, yet brought up the fact that her work buds are so great for going home to let their wives home.


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## Evinrude58

I think you are wasting time that could best be spent on a woman that doesn’t think of you as an appliance, that desires you sexually, makes you feel loved, doesn’t bring you down mentally with constant rejection. 

Then again, you are hearing negativity from me that may put negative thoughts in your head.

It might be better for you to cut TAM for a while and get to a place where you can take action one direction or another. I don’t see heading in the direction of her since she’s shown years of disrespect , apathy, and propensity to use you.

I may stop posting on your thread. I’ve never had a sexless relationship like you (once every seven weeks is sexless to me), and I can’t imagine how hurtful that must be. It makes me have vicarious anger for you.

good luck. At least your eyes may have been opened a little.


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## Rebel81

Evinrude58 said:


> I think you are wasting time that could best be spent on a woman that doesn’t think of you as an appliance, that desires you sexually, makes you feel loved, doesn’t bring you down mentally with constant rejection.
> 
> Then again, you are hearing negativity from me that may put negative thoughts in your head.
> 
> It might be better for you to cut TAM for a while and get to a place where you can take action one direction or another. I don’t see heading in the direction of her since she’s shown years of disrespect , apathy, and propensity to use you.
> 
> I may stop posting on your thread. I’ve never had a sexless relationship like you (once every seven weeks is sexless to me), and I can’t imagine how hurtful that must be. It makes me have vicarious anger for you.
> 
> good luck. At least your eyes may have been opened a little.


Thank you. 

Funny you should say that as today, a thought crossed my mind to take a break from here. 

I appreciate all the views, opinions and advice however at this stage, it's time to take a break, reflect and take whatever action needed or go another direction. 

Some women will never know what a sexless marriage does to a guy, more so when the wife doesn't make the effort to try and resolve the problem and gaslights and manipulates the **** out of the husband which I now know to be true. 

I'll find a way guys. 

Hopefully I can report back in a few weeks, months with some kind of positive update. 

As for now, I'm continuing with my own personal development which will stand to me in the long term 😁


----------

