# Is she cheating?



## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

I am 46 and my wife 5 years younger. We're both fit, athletic and she looks great. We have been married 12 years and have two children. Early in our marriage she cheated on me with another man, and it happened twice more a few years later. I forgave her each time and we went for counseling and I thought we were OK. Since 5 months ago my suspicion has been aroused. I will list my experiences:
1. She confided that she feels bisexual and is turned on by other women
2. She has become exceedingly close with another woman (A)
3. Whenever they go out together, she wants to spend the night with A, as she feels it is too dangerous to drive home alone. Initially I thought nothing of it, but now have said no. Before this she has had no problems driving anywhere at all times of the day.
4. I frequently travel overseas and on one of my recent trips she had over another friend and her child for a sleepover. She told me all about the evening and night, what happened, what she cooked but did not mention that A too had also stayed over, sleeping in our room with my wife. I found out accidentally when my daughter let slip. Incidentally my daughter is a very heavy sleeper and had stayed in our room with them, sleeping on the spare bed.
5. Our sex life has changed. Normally, we would have sex about 3 times a week, but for the past 2 months it is restricted to only once and on saturdays. frequently she has things to do when I go to bed or she somehow falls asleep immediately when I get into bed. Also, if I try to initiate something she will push me away. This has never happened before. Also, she used to like me going down on her, but now she says that it is too ticklish.
6. Whenever she gets a call from A she will go into another room and lock the door.
7. She has changed all the passwords on her ipad and religiously deletes all sms and call records.
8. She has had a glamour portrait photo taken of herself and has hidden it from me. Did not even tell me, I found it by accident.
9. I taped one of her phone conversations; I can only hear one side but she talks to A in a low teasing voice and asks "You know my insides?""What have you been looking at" and before hanging up "Yes babe, I miss you so much too". This is on 8am monday, after they had been together till 8pm on sunday. Also the language used is very possessive like,"I don't want you to take the bus and walk so far"... 
10. She has become very loving and kind and attentive to me, as long as it is outside bed.
I'm going crazy and have not slept well for almost two weeks. I want to confront her, but don't know if I should, as any accusation might make me seem crazy.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Mmm.

Signs of A with A.

Put clear boundaries for your wife. Are you thinking of counseling?


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

No, not thinking of counseling. If I can find proof, will sue for divorce. Just worried I will lose the kids. I only want them, she can have everything else.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Most likely..

But let me offer something for you to think about.

*Early in our marriage she cheated on me with another man, and it happened twice more a few years later. I forgave her each time and we went for counseling and I thought we were OK.*

The question ,you should be thinking is
When is it enough?


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> e have been married 12 years and have two children. Early in our marriage she cheated on me with another man, and* it happened twice more a few years later*. I forgave her each time and we went for counseling and I thought we were OK. Since 5 months ago my suspicion has been aroused. I will list my experiences:





> I'm going crazy and have not slept well for almost two weeks. I want to confront her, but don't know if I should, as any accusation might make me seem crazy.


You are married to a serial cheater. She ****ed around with 3 people that you know of already and your worried about accusations????? Your crazy for staying with her. You already know the signs of cheating since this in not the first time she has done this. Did you go to Marriage Counseling and establish boundaries for your marriage the first time she cheated?? Did you threaten Divorce?? What happened the second and third time she cheated??? What consequences did she face when she got caught?? Empty threats???
Now this is her forth time and you thought everything would be ok? 
You choose to put up with her infidelity and continue to rugsweep the multiple affairs. She doesn't respect you and continues to cheat because you allow her to with no consequences for her actions. IMHO Gather all the evidence, file for divorce, and have her served. 
*suspicious thread*


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

This looks like a clear case. Just do nothing for the moment towards accusing etc. Gather undeniable evidence en follow the normal confrontation procedure as you can read about here. That is the best way to deal with it. You have to keep your emotions under control for your own good now!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Definitely something is up. And it is not you. Don't confront just yet, unless you think she will admit it straight off. Gather evidence. 

To cut this whole thing short, demand access to her phone, iPad and computer. When you know she has been in contact. If she refuses you know exactly why and can move to divorce easily. If she shows you, I doubt she will, then establish transparency in her passwords and texts and phone conversations. Make it so that she does all this while you are present and can see what she is writing, hear what is being said. And do this at a point where you can have a clear run at it and so she cannot slyly let her A partner know you are on to them. 

Be prepared for a big blow up. And stand firm. Do not waver in your demands, do not let her disappear with her phone, do not let her out of your sight, and do not let her manipulate you. Demand what you need and don't let her batter you down with words of 'controlling, paranoia.....etc' 

Good luck


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Chance are that yes, she is...so...the question is, why are you letting her do this to you repeatedly?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes, very clearly yes.

The hiding, the locking things up, everything she is doing points to a physical affair.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The change in sex frequency/style after so any years and intersecting with the arrival of her relationship with A and the lockdown of her devices all scream affair.

Is the other woman married?

The possessiveness is worrying and something you need to be careful of because it can make the do stupid and nasty things together to you if you threaten their relationship, such as conspiring to falsely accuse you of things to either her or the child. Be really on guard.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

And you are sure it is a woman?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

wildhawke, 
She won't be very stealthy or good at hiding since you've let her get by with this in the past. Obviously she's in an affair now so you should investigate.

If you can afford a PI, he'll probably could get proof and pictures, etc. This is what you need for making a case for custody and assets. If you can't afford the PI then try VAR (voice act recorder), GPS, etc. But you do need to get proof that stands up in court. 

All of this is assuming you want D but your past tendency has been to fall for her sad story or whatever.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Well, this looks like a serial cheater. Maybe she is having an affair with this woman? Or is the woman providing a cover for an affair with someone else? A brother of the woman?

You need to establish exactly what is happening. It's not fair on you or your children.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Serial cheater normally never quit cheating. This has been my experience anyway. My ex h had been cheating since the day I met him. I chose to ignore the red flags. We quickly married due to becoming pregnant 4 months upon meeting.:/

I stuck it out for a total of 2 years with him. It wasn't long after our marriage I stopped having sex due to my suspicions. He would leave and not come home until 6am in the morning. That is very unacceptable in a marriage. Also, my ex treated me horribly on top of his cheating.

After I left one of his mistresses moved in just 3 days. They are now married and she can not understand why he cheats on her. She puts up with it, but this is her choice. He treats her worse then he ever treated me. My ex no longer wants contact with our/my child. It's been years and he won't allow my child to speak with her brothers/sisters. It's very sad.


Anyways, serial cheaters will keep on cheating. I personally would of left after the first incident. I will not put up with cheating of any sort whether its physical or emotional. 

It doesn't matter if your wife is with a woman or a man, it's still cheating.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Right of the bat, your wife is a homosexual, get used to the idea. She's gay, you aren't going to be able to change that. With that knowledge, she can no longer be trusted to spend time alone with women, the same way she shouldn't spend time alone with men. 

Your wife has already proven that she can't be trusted. She's a cheater and she has no boundaries, she's now just as likely to spread her legs for a woman as she did for men, what's her next boundary to breached, threesome?

Sexual orientation confusion would be unacceptable to me, it means you have a bigger issue that just infidelity. Prepare for the worst. This most likely isn't her first gay experience.

All that being said, there's nothing left to do but gather your evidence (via techniques discussed in the forum) and drop divorce papers on her when you're ready.

In the meantime, don't kiss her butt, be strong, be a man, appear unshakable, don't grovel, don't pester her with too many insecure sounding questions.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Answer ...Yes


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> *Serial cheater normally never quit cheating.* This has been my experience anyway. My ex h had been cheating since the day I met him. I chose to ignore the red flags. We quickly married due to becoming pregnant 4 months upon meeting.:/





I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> After I left one of his mistresses moved in just 3 days. They are now married and *she can not understand why he cheats on her*. She puts up with it, but this is her choice.


A cautionary tail of fantasy versus reality. How idiotic must the OW feel now.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Right of the bat, your wife is a homosexual, get used to the idea. She's gay, you aren't going to be able to change that.


That's true for men, but women are much more sexually fluid. That's why women are twice as likely to have a same sex partner at some time in their life. 

Wildhawke, my wife, like yours, has an occasional attraction to other women, she wouldn't dare act on it though, because she knows as soon as I got wind of it, I'd be demanding to be let into the club, no ifs ands or buts. 

Wildhawke, how old are you? It's probably time to get your testosterone checked and I'm not kidding. Your responses to these provocations are insufficient.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Dude, are you serious ?? Here you are, an expierenced rug sweeper, and KNOW she is!!!
Have you lurked here long ???
If so, then you KNOW what to do.
Get evidence possibily of her in the act. You use that with threat of exposes to get the kids. Or at least 50/50.

Hell, at this time you don't even need proof, just file and ask for primary, while actually hoping for shared.

Does she work ?? How is the finances ??

Separate the money today !! Most banks are open on saturday.

Your pass no action for the other A/s has shown her you can be walked on.

If it was me, I would not play games. I would set her down and tell her we are D/ing and I want her out of my house.

I know not everyone have the whatever to actually be this way. But hopefully you can find a lil of me somewhere in you.

I know my worth, even at 55 an a lil over weight. Do you ??


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

WTF your W does not want you to go down on her anymore :scratchhead:!!. So the OW does a better job at it (than you). You are a man and can never be a female. You can't please or make her happy now. She has been turned (out) on to something new. Listen you keep letting her cheat on you. You need to start living life without her now..


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> That's true for men, but women are much more sexually fluid. That's why women are twice as likely to have a same sex partner at some time in their life.


I don't understand the point. Are you saying if a woman, who is twice as likely than a man to have sex with with someone of the same gender, is not doing something that is defined as homosexuality? Sexual fluidity negates labeling the act?

Talk about 'rug sweeping', this kind of blind acceptance of a fashionable trend as normal is the very definition of sweeping unacceptable behavior under the rug. 

The OP's wife is gay, read the post again, that isn't experimentation. He's got a big problem. Not only does he have to worry about OM, he now has to add OW.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

When she told you "that she feels bisexual and is turned on by other women" she was already f0cking OW for a while.

Nanny cam, keypogger, VAR in the car will prove this.

Anyway, whith her past story, why in the hell you need any evidence? I woudn't bother to gather info unless you feel it can be used as leverage at custody/finances in the divorce.

Sorry man, lawyer up, a shark dads friendly lawyer, find out where you stand, your rights, the worse/better scenarios, get your doks in a row, detach emotionaly from her, start detaching financially/physicaly from her (for this follow your lawyer's advice to a T, don't move out ever).


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Fake a travel and put a nanny cam at the bedroom.
Put a VAR in that "other room" she uses to go every time OW calls. Car is another spot.
She doesn't like you to go down on her anymore becuase she likes OW's tonge more now. She doesn't feel like cheating on OW.

Sorry to be blunt but those are not red flags, they are gigantic neon sign.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> I don't understand the point. Are you saying if a woman, who is twice as likely than a man to have sex with with someone of the same gender, is not doing something that is defined as homosexuality? Sexual fluidity negates labeling the act?
> 
> Talk about 'rug sweeping', this kind of blind acceptance of a fashionable trend as normal is the very definition of sweeping unacceptable behavior under the rug.
> 
> The OP's wife is gay, read the post again, that isn't experimentation. He's got a big problem. Not only does he have to worry about OM, he now has to add OW.


*Tony*. What *Machiavell*, is trying to say is. A lot of women are not
grossed out,of the idea of being wit the same sex as we men are..I personally can count the times i seen female friend make out in a bar.Just to tease us men...

So i have no reason to dismiss/question what ,Mach presented..


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

So the current Other Woman is affair number 4 that you are aware of. There are probably numerous One Night Stands with men and women.

The phone conversation should be enough evidence for you. Maybe I am old and jaded, but a wife calling another person "Babe" (man or woman) and saying that they miss them so much is pretty clear evidence to me.

She is being kind and affectionate to you outside of the bedroom because she needs you for financial support and for a babysitter when she decides to go out and then is "scared" to drive home. You do not have a marriage and in my opinion, your wife is not good marriage material. She is too selfish and focused on her own life outside the marriage.

I would keep calm and monitor if you feel that you need more conclusive evidence. But during that time I would be talking to the toughest shark divorce attorney I could find.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

So, Jonesey and Machiavelli do not believe your wife is gay, so it seems, in their opinion, that isn't an issue to content with.

Regardless, your wife isn't safe around either gender.

That makes for a very uncomfortable situation, you'll never be able to trust her just hanging around with her female friends.

Call it what you like, I call it being a bad situation that OP needs to remove himself from.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> WTF your W does not want you to go down on her anymore :scratchhead:!!. So the OW does a better job at it (than you). You are a man and can never be a female. You can't please or make her happy now. She has been turned (out) on to something new. Listen you keep letting her cheat on you. You need to start living life without her now..


Going down on her is the sexually special thing the OW does for her. Therefore she doesn't want OP to do it because it's a fantasy faithful to OW thing. Kind of like a woman not having sex with her hubby because somehow she's being faithful for OM.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Tony55 said:


> So, Jonesey and Machiavelli do not believe your wife is gay, so it seems, in their opinion, that isn't an issue to content with.
> 
> Regardless, your wife isn't safe around either gender.
> 
> ...


I agree on that statement. That why is wrote in my first post to him,that the question he should ask him self.When is it enough..

Personally i would bolt..Her cheating with a women or a man.Makes no difference at this point..I believe in forgiveness
and try to move on.But like in this case.Enough is enough..

But however if OP wants to try again,thats his choice.: But i can recommend it for him


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Right of the bat, your wife is a homosexual, get used to the idea. She's gay, you aren't going to be able to change that. With that knowledge, she can no longer be trusted to spend time alone with women, the same way she shouldn't spend time alone with men.
> 
> Your wife has already proven that she can't be trusted. She's a cheater and she has no boundaries, she's now just as likely to spread her legs for a woman as she did for men, what's her next boundary to breached, threesome?
> 
> ...


A long term girlfriend of mine was bisexual. She left me for another woman. Hurt like hell. I was so broken up by losing her, I didn't even date for years.

OP, Your wife has cheated on you, but she gave you some beautiful children and she has come back to you, several times.

Can you cope with this behaviour any more? Let this continue to happen?

Or is your heart saying: "There's been too much of this, time to call it quits?"

If the latter, try to make the divorce as swift and as clean as you can for the sake of your daughters.

It's not easy. My reconciliation with my wife wasn't, and she was not a serial cheater.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Call it what you like, I call it being a bad situation that OP needs to remove himself from.


Yep. Either divorce her, put an ankle bracelet on her, or take up swinging. At least with the last option, he'll get some action.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Yep. Either divorce her, put an ankle bracelet on her, or take up swinging. At least with the last option, he'll get some action.


Sorry - I posted something that was inappropriate and not very sensitive to OP's situation. Deleted it - but don't know how to make the entire post disappear.


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

Dear all, thank you for all your feedback. just a little more light on the situation.
THe first time it happened, our son had just been born, he was a honeymoon baby. I was traveling a lot and really had no option but to forgive and work on the marriage. I took more local jobs, we went for counseling and tried all the boundaries and stuff. 
Later on my son was diagnosed as Aspergers and we had a difficult time coping. We decided she would leave her job and look after him and our daughter and we got rid of the maid. Thats when it happened again and another time after that. So, again I was not in a position to leave as it would have been very hard on the kids especially my son.
Currently though, I have a strong sense of deja vu, but I don't have much proof.
The hard facts are:
1. Sex has definitely changed, we seem to be on a once a week timetable
2. She lied/ concealed the fact that A stayed over one night
3. She hides when taking calls from A
4. Flirtatious talk on phone, saying "I miss you very much sweetheart", after spending previous day with A
I'm a guy, so I don't really know if all this is normal in a girl-girl friendship, I mean the phone calls.
I will be trying to get a PI to gather evidence. If there is really nothing, I will be the happiest man on earth!


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

For the sake of you and the kids I hope the PI doesn't turn anything up.

You're in a tough spot, sorry.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She cheated 3 times in the marriage ? Sometimes you just have to end it. Make her get a job.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

As a girl, that chat is not 'normal' with my female friends. Far from it. Calling the morning after the night before and being so loved up and wishful missing is far from 'normal' for purely a friendship. You are not wrong in your concerns. Get spied up with all the correct equipment and get this swiftly dealt with so you can face the pain, deal with it, and move on. Don't choose limbo.


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## lightninghelix (Sep 29, 2012)

Yes she is cheating, she's already had physical cheating like 3 times. It takes alot for a woman to cross over the threshold of physical cheating and she's done it alot.

Tell her you think she is cheating and get transparency from her (cell, e-mail, all that stuff.) If she dosen't want to play ball, well then ask her what she has to hide. She should understand that you have trust issues with her from the previous cheating.

I'm trying to figure out currently if I've got a serial cheater on my hands. You obviously have one with no doubt. 3 times _that you know of_ that's already way too much.

Question is what are you gonna do about it?


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

One thing you can depend on always having. Doubt about how a former cheater spends their "alone time".


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Sorry to say, but I don't think that you being the happiest man on earth is in your future.

Better start making plans for how you intend to deal with a bisexual serial cheater.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> She cheated 3 times in the marriage ? Sometimes you just have to end it. Make her get a job.



It is not that simple his son has special needs. So the W stay home to care for both kids.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> It is not that simple his son has special needs. So the W stay home to care for both kids.


So women with special need kids have a free reign to cheat ?(Notice the intention, not the logic of my argument)


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> So women with special need kids have a free reign to cheat ?(Notice the intention, not the logic of my argument)


You know that is not what I am talking about. You said let her get a job. It might be cheaper for them for her to care for the kids. The cost to pay a sitter for a special needs child could be costly. I am not a supporter of cake eatters.Oh The kids are not just the womans kids. It takes a man and a woman to have a child. Woman don't have children by themself. The OP and his wife have children together...


Sometimes it does help to read the thread ....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> You know that is not what I am talking about. You said let her get a job. It might be cheaper for them for her to care for the kids. The cost to pay a sitter for a special needs child could be costly. I am not a supporter of cake eatters.Oh The kids are not just the womans kids. It takes a man and a woman to have a child. Woman don't have children by themself. The OP and his wife have children together...


They might have tried special needs sitters and the child did not get on with them. Or maybe nobody qualified to look after them is available or affordable?


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> They might have tried special needs sitters and the child did not get on with them. Or maybe nobody qualified to look after them is available or affordable?


You have made some good points too. :iagree:


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> So women with special need kids have a free reign to cheat ?(Notice the intention, not the logic of my argument)


Maybe he should just turn the house over to her and whomever she is seeing, now so she will have more help with the special needs child?


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

Thanks again for all the constructive advice.
Yes, we did try special needs care before but it didn't really work out. That was why we decided that she had to stay home and care for our son. He was kicked out of so many kindies it was unreal. He is coping much better in school now, the key, according to our psychologist is he needs stability and calm, as his brain cannot function well in stress situations. He is still on medication but has come along very well.
She stayed overnight with her friend on Saturday, as they were running a quarter marathon early Sunday. By itself, the circumstances are very believable, as they wanted to carpool and the marathon started at 5am. 
Also, she asked me to go for a movie premier for which she had got two tickets. She left the question of babysitters out. Before she would get her sister or parents to babysit, but when I asked her about this, she replied "Yes, the kids will be a problem". "Do you mind if I go with my friend?" The movie is Tekken 2!
Part of me wants this whole thing to just go away, because if I ignore all the signs, I have the dream wife. She has become very caring, and understanding and we have not had an argument in ages. But that said the signs are eating me up on the inside.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> Part of me wants this whole thing to just go away, because if I ignore all the signs, I have the dream wife.


Do you want to live the main role at the Truman show?


> But that said the signs are eating me up on the inside.


 Don't let it happen. Pop the red pill. Snoop, spy. Don't hesitate, she has proven to be untrustworthy for years.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

*Also, she asked me to go for a movie premier for which she had got two tickets. She left the question of babysitters out. Before she would get her sister or parents to babysit, but when I asked her about this, she replied "Yes, the kids will be a problem". "Do you mind if I go with my friend?" The movie is Tekken 2!
*


Holy crap.Damn she is good at playing mind games


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Why the h3ll can't the friend baby sit for you? If she's such a good friend?

Sorry, but your wife is a serial cheater, who I think is only staying with you at the moment because she knows she couldn't manage your son on her own and her playmate would dump her in a minute if she had to put with your son.

so she stays because she gets you to finance things and to babysit in the evenings and weekends while she gets out to play.

If you don't have a VAR in the car and in your own bedroom when you are away - you really need them in place.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

wildhawke said:


> Part of me wants this whole thing to just go away, because if I ignore all the signs, I have the dream wife. She has become very caring, and understanding and we have not had an argument in ages.


No need for her to argue, she's getting all the rug she can munch, Oops, sorry, I forgot rugs are out these days. She's happy, caring, and understanding because you are so happy, caring , and understanding. If not, what have you done to express your displeasure?

I reread your first post and see you're 46. No surprise based on your passive attitude. Testosterone is nosediving about now. What does your weight training program look like? Oh, you're into aerobics? hmmm.

When was the last time a woman hit on you?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Wildhawke, apart from all the other issues; that is very good of you to put your child first.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

wildhawke said:


> Part of me wants this whole thing to just go away, because if I ignore all the signs, I have the dream wife. She has become very caring, and understanding and we have not had an argument in ages. But that said the signs are eating me up on the inside.


But don't you think she's making up to you this way?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> You know that is not what I am talking about. You said let her get a job. It might be cheaper for them for her to care for the kids. The cost to pay a sitter for a special needs child could be costly. I am not a supporter of cake eatters.Oh The kids are not just the womans kids. It takes a man and a woman to have a child. Woman don't have children by themself. The OP and his wife have children together...
> 
> 
> Sometimes it does help to read the thread ....


Personal attack ? Nice..


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

This is a real tough situation because of your son...I have no idea what it's like to have a special needs child but I would say it may be better for you to have a real stable home eventually with a woman who won't cheat. 

She is NOT a dream wife if you ignore this. She's a lying scheming, manipulative headcase I fear. I hope not but...well you know the signs so there it is. Up to you to deal with it.


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## here2learn (Aug 23, 2012)

If your wife has had a history of cheating, why isn't there 100% transparency in the marriage? I don't understand why she feels the need to password protect the phone from you (and why you've allowed it).


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

wildhawke said:


> I am 46 and my wife 5 years younger. We're both fit, athletic and she looks great. We have been married 12 years and have two children. Early in our marriage she cheated on me with another man, and it happened twice more a few years later. I forgave her each time and we went for counseling and I thought we were OK. Since 5 months ago my suspicion has been aroused. I will list my experiences:
> 1. She confided that she feels bisexual and is turned on by other women
> 2. She has become exceedingly close with another woman (A)
> 3. Whenever they go out together, she wants to spend the night with A, as she feels it is too dangerous to drive home alone. Initially I thought nothing of it, but now have said no. Before this she has had no problems driving anywhere at all times of the day.
> ...


Research shows that cheating early in the marriage is a very bad sign. Also, serial cheaters rarely change their stripes. 

Unfortunately, perhaps being to quick to forgive so many times is only emboldening her. 

What consequence has their been for her regarding her betrayals?

I hear from people who cheated in a prior marriage and were summarily booted by their Betrayed spouse, and because of that they would never compromise their new marriage by cheating.

But a serial cheater obviously has not learned a lesson.

Some serial cheater MAY be psychopaths. They wear the mask of sanity but are quite insane. 

Studies show that psychopaths do not learn lessons from prior hurtful behavior. They have no conscience, which can be seen on an MRI, because the emotional centers of their brain are shown to not respond to sadness, the pain of others.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Fake a travel and put a nanny cam at the bedroom.
> Put a VAR in that "other room" she uses to go every time OW calls. Car is another spot.
> She doesn't like you to go down on her anymore becuase she likes OW's tonge more now. She doesn't feel like cheating on OW.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt but those are not red flags, they are gigantic neon sign.


Good point. 

There is an entire website started by gay women in which they advocate using straight men to support them or to take them on expensive trips and out to dinner and to buy them nice gifts.

They advocate going after married men in their 50s, but any age will do. 

Meanwhile, they only have sex with the straight men to use them to buy them things, or pay their rent, or whatever. 

Sorry OP that you are here in the betrayed spouses club. It truly stinks.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Yep. Either divorce her, put an ankle bracelet on her, or take up swinging. At least with the last option, he'll get some action.


Also, maybe a chastity belt would protect him from STDS.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

wildhawke said:


> Also, she asked me to go for a movie premier for which she had got two tickets. She left the question of babysitters out. Before she would get her sister or parents to babysit, but when I asked her about this, she replied "Yes, the kids will be a problem". "Do you mind if I go with my friend?" The movie is Tekken 2!


This is a major red flag for cheating behavior, IMO. 

My STBEH would often do the same type of thing, offer to go somewhere with me that make all sorts of excuses why it would be better for me to stay home and him to go out with a supposedly male friend. 

He was later anonymously outed as a cheater.


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

Yes, I admit it sounds masochistic, but the first time, if there had been no child involved I would have gladly kicked her out. Subsequently, there were two children, one of whom has special needs. I know she has me over a barrel. She knows I will not do anything to hurt the children. If I did not know anything about this I would gladly go on, but I just cannot stand the hypocrisy. 
I sometimes wonder if she had ever loved me, maybe I am just a means to an end. 
I really want to believe that all is well, but I cannot reconcile the facts. Why lie? Why conceal things? 
I have got a VR in the bedroom, but except for the one conversation I have not managed to get anything else. When I am not at home she can take calls anywhere in the house.
The last call I noticed was two nights ago. I was outside the door and heard a whispered conversation. I listened for a few minutes, but couldn't make out anything. When I opened the door to go in room, she spoke up in a loud voice about the movie time (movie they are going to watch tonight). Then she hung up. Unfortunately, the stupid VR had run out of battery and I couldn't get anything.
They have also planned another date this Friday, supposedly to meet up with a third friend in a club. I am planning to have her followed.
Why have I not confronted her? I have no solid proof. And I am very afraid if I proceed without proof, I will lose the children. I am willing to give her anything if I can have the kids, but I know she will fight all the way because she knows how I feel about the children.
I know it is going to get nasty, maybe she thinks it will be a knife fight. Which is why I need a loaded machine gun. Hopefully she will fold easy.


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

Are you sure you won't lose the children anyway? Most states keep children with the mother unless she is abusive to them or equivalent.

Just a question, not trying to push you into anything.


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## time2heal (Jun 13, 2012)

yes, she is cheating on you


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

I turned the VR on and went out for some biz meetings. The recording captures her phone ringing, then I guess its on speakerphone, but the VR cannot capture whats being said. Then she is masturbating.
Our sex life is now confined to once a week, friday nights or sat mornings. The past few days she has not expressed any interest in sex. Think I am going crazy.
I don't live in the US, i'm at the opposite side of the world in South East Asia. So have made an appointment with a lawyer to understand what my chances are of getting the kids.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Get a better VAR and put it closer to the speakerphone.

Or try an nanny-cam.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

There are a lot of "spy" devices on the market at a fairly reasonable price.

Check them out if you are so inclined or if it will benefit you when going for divorce.

Since you are not in the USA infidelity may be a factor in the divorce. Hopefully the lawyer can give you some good news.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Good point.
> 
> There is an entire website started by gay women in which they advocate using straight men to support them or to take them on expensive trips and out to dinner and to buy them nice gifts.
> 
> ...


Now THAT is a venue I never considered for my ex cheater. I do know she was cheating on the guy she was seeing less than three months after we split, but it appeared that our roles had been reversed in so far as who was footing the bills. The guys she was rubbing up against were never employed in their lives and it was just a matter of time before they had found a way to take everything away from her the idiot judge had given her, including the house (by default).
I now wonder if she was rolling around with women, as well.
Thanks for the thought, Sara8.


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

Dear All, thanks for all the advice. I have consulted a lawyer, it is very unlikely that I will get custody. Apparently, EA, PA are not issues the judge will consider, only if I can prove neglect will I get custody. There is no way I can prove neglect. For all that she has done, I must admit that she is a pretty good mother, especially to our son. 
So I will confront her tomorrow, lay out my suspicions (fairly thin) and request she give me full access to her FB and emails. She religiously deletes all SMS. I will also demand she explain all the inconsistent behavior. I am praying there will be a logical explanation to everything.
I will hint that I have other evidence and hopefully she will confess.
The last few times she did this, she actually confessed.
My last action will be to tell her that I will divorce her, but only when the children are little more older. Maybe we will work out some way to stay together for their sake. 
The big stick I have is if her parents get wind of this, there will be hell to pay for her. Her dad thinks his s-i-ls all walk on water.
For now, I cannot think beyond what will happen tomorrow. 
Wish me luck. the irony of all this, its our anniversary on Sunday. 12 years.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Stay calm, no emotion very matter of fact good luck and don't put up with any gaslighting either.


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

Confronted her, she denied everything. I did not tell her I had the VAR recordings, she insisted I had imagined what I heard. She also insisted she told me about her friend staying over, when I know she did no such thing. Finally I wanted access to her FB, emails, she refused, saying it is an invasion of her privacy. I told her if that was more important than saving the marriage, then so brit. As far as I am concerned, she is guilty. She didn't seem too cut up about it. I just walked out. Thinking now about my options.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You can bet she called the OW immediately. You should have placed a var before you confronted.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

WH- at least you know she is lying, now what are you going to do about it?

Good luck
WD


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

What if she admitted to the gay relationship; would you be OK with staying married to her? If not, why confront her anymore on this, you already know it's happening, regardless of what she's admitting to. If you're confident that your information is correct then serve her with divorce papers.

*"She didn't seem too cut up about it."​*Because she doesn't take you seriously. She is now on sexual relations partner #4 (that you know of), she's a pro, she's such a pro that she got bored with an entire gender and moved on to a new one. What's next?

Think rational Wildhawke.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> "She didn't seem too cut up about it."


because you will take her back, like the last 3 times


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

keylog the computer and get her passwords


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Why should she be cut up over it.
With alimony and child support, she will be free of you and her life style will only suffer a lil.

Tony 55 said it better than I ever could.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

wildhawke said:


> Thinking now about my options.


Options?
#1 Divorce
#2 Open Marriage
#3 Bring in the Girlfriend

Something tells me your wife doesn't want to share her pie, so she'll veto #3. She's expecting you to go with #2, not by agreement, but by your inaction.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Clean up your diet, include absurd amounts of fruits and vegetables (proteolytic enzymes and vitamin c) and have a high intake of protein (whey from meat) along with daily 20-30 minutes of weight lifting, super sets. This will increase your testosterone. Testosterone decreases depression (estrogen), raises the threshold/tolerance level for pain, increases strength, sleeping better raises testosterone, and taking ascorbic acid (vit c) aids vs stress hormone (cortisol).

Keep going hard. You need to stop being all talk. Actions speak louder than words.

She still thinks she is fooling you, and how offensive to think you'd be satisfied with more "love outside" the bed. Screw that, give me all the love in bed and "hate" outside the bed but don't cheat on me.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

When you work seriously you WILL get the proper amount of sleep. Epsom salt for a bath to recover and vitamin d3 onthe side too.


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

So, a quick update. Have moved out of the bedroom into the spare room. Have had minimal conversations, she now spends her time trying to get me to talk to her and is now trying to push the sex agenda. The night after the confrontation, last saturday, she went out with her friend again. Interestingly the friend did not come to the house to pick her up, but waited on the next street. The wife walked there to the car.That was the last I heard of the friend. I have since moved my retirement funds into a trust account for the children, she doesn't know. Also, I have refused to have anything to do with her, despite her prompting and calling and texting me. I keep my replies short and unemotional. 
She said that she wanted to talk two days ago, I replied lets talk about what you did. She got all flustered, angry and walked off saying she did not do anything. I have also outed her to her family, unfortunately most of them are away in Oz for a long holiday. I just spoke to the ones that are here.
She has also got a job teaching at the kids school. Good for her.
The long term plan is to D, maybe in a few years, once the kids are a little more mature. I am not worried about my daughter, but my son is a special child and is extremely close to her.
I have wasted 12 years of my life on her lies and deception, my life is now for me and the kids. Its good that she has a job now, she can manage when D happens.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you deployed VARs to get evidence of her cheating?

Also why isn't she sleaping on the couch?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Good for you Wildehawk. She is now beginning to falter I would say. Whether she wants the marriage to work or not will be displayed in her efforts and actions. Keep your stance and it will all come to the conclusion it is destined for. 

And yes, I agree with Warlock. She should be in the spare room. Not you!


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## wildhawke (Sep 29, 2012)

I had recently redone the spare room into my a study. You really can't sleep there now, so I have had to move into my daughters room and the daughter now sleeps with her. I let this be because I don't want her to accuse me of anything later on.
She is now on super nice mode, has not gone out with her friends in over a week and does not seem to be having any conversations on the phone.
Her game plan was pretty simple, the first time I asked for access to her mail and fb she refused on grounds that it was an invasion of her privacy. Of course, she was just playing for time so she could delete all incriminating evidence. She is now betting that she can wear me down by being super good and loving. I'm having none of that and told her this morning that I can see through her game. 
I also told her that if she is not happy she can file for D, and I will inform her parents that she wants a D because she wants to screw around and I am in the way. lets see what she will do. My long term plan is still on for me though. I have wasted 13 years of my life on her lies, deception and cheating. No more.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

wildhawke said:


> They have also planned another date this Friday, supposedly to meet up with a third friend in a club. I am planning to have her followed.


Too bad you didn't follow-up on this. You would have learned more from this than anything else you could have done. I'll bet that was some night out. Let me guess: she drank too much and couldn't drive home. Spent the night at the friends house.


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