# For Your Consideration



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Interesting article. Who would have thought this would ever be needed to be said? I'm not asking for opinions. I don't have any questions. I was just surprised it's gotten this far, and a little saddened. I'm not promoting any religious belief or unbelief. 

A UK bishop's plea: speak up on marriage before it's too late :: EWTN News



> Inside a small English church dedicated to St. Columba, a congregation of Catholics gathered, sitting in the midst of 2,500 years of marriage.
> 
> As they celebrated marriage as a blessing to society, they also received a warning: speak up on behalf of marriage now, before doing so becomes taboo.
> 
> ...


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

I love how they always try to paint themselves as the victims, "STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE!". Marriage is only "unmentionable" if you're afraid of people pointing out that you're a bigot.

Also, what's this about teachers being "afraid" to talk about marriage? Why do teachers need to talk about marriage and family structure at all? It's not exactly a difficult subject, kids will pick up on the gist of it themselves. 

I've always wanted to see what these kinds of people would think of me and my family. An intersex person who is entirely physically male and identifies as male but can carry and have children. Kind of shoots their entire argument about sex and relationships in the foot.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

batsociety said:


> I love how they always try to paint themselves as the victims, "STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE!". Marriage is only "unmentionable" if you're afraid of people pointing out that you're a bigot.


/yawn



batsociety said:


> Also, what's this about teachers being "afraid" to talk about marriage? Why do teachers need to talk about marriage and family structure at all? It's not exactly a difficult subject, kids will pick up on the gist of it themselves.


This is amazingly naive. Children are naturally inquisitive. They ask questions. They ask parents, grandparents, older kids and siblings, aunts, uncles, babysitters, pastors, principals, police officers, and, yes, teachers. In short, they ask anyone w/ whom they feel "safe" enough to ask. Additionally, most aren't going to natively know which questions they should be asking Mom and Dad exclusively.



batsociety said:


> I've always wanted to see what these kinds of people would think of me and my family. An intersex person who is entirely physically male and identifies as male but can carry and have children. Kind of shoots their entire argument about sex and relationships in the foot.


OK... I've got some Googling to do.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Western culture is slowly crumbling under the weight of its own decadence. People don't have the character they had generations prior. The motto today is if you can't live up to a standard then reject the standard. Weak undisciplined people are too numerous for the culture to survive.


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> This is amazingly naive. Children are naturally inquisitive. They ask questions. They ask parents, grandparents, older kids and siblings, aunts, uncles, babysitters, pastors, principals, police officers, and, yes, teachers. In short, they ask anyone w/ whom they feel "safe" enough to ask. Additionally, most aren't going to natively know which questions they should be asking Mom and Dad exclusively.


I wasn't implying that children are not inquisitive. I've had a handful of them, I KNOW. I was also a teacher for a little while, I had every question under the sun thrown at me. If a kid asked me something that was a little touchy - like why they were black when their parents were white, when their dad was going to come home from prison (the answer was never, he had life without parole), why their brother "took himself to heaven" - I'd deflect them. It's not hard. It's not my place to answer those kinds of question and god knows there would be hell to pay if I tried, most teachers know this and they know how to deal with it.

I never had any kids ask me about marriage (unless their parents had divorced or the general sort of 'why do people get married', which is easy enough to answer) and definitely no kids ask me about queer marriage/parents, but if I had, I'd gloss over it in the same way. Primarily to avoid conflict because I know it can be touchy. If you know that it's not an appropriate question for you to answer, or that your answer might be controversial, just keep your mouth shut. 

When I say that "kids will pick up the gist of it", I mean that over time, people develop their own opinions through experience. There are a lot of things that kids don't know about or understand but as they grow they will learn. A lot of what you tell them when they are young won't stick. And hell, if I can have the conversation with my kids about why some people think my husband and I are evil, YOU can have the conversation with your own sh*tty kid about why some families look different to theirs.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

It has to roll out over the top. That's the proper method of dispensing TP.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

He went on to note that in schools, teachers are cautious to even propose the model of traditional marriage to children in the classroom, afraid of being considered too narrow-minded. Inspectors have also questioned young children in school as to whether their teachers are promoting conventional understandings of the family, making them less eager to speak openly about marriage. 

Isn't the reason they are being more open minded about talking about marriage in school so the kids with divorced parents, 2 same sex parents, foster parents, or single parents don't feel left out or like they have less of a family than someone else? 
I think the only thing they should teach is that families come in all shapes and sizes.

Kids will learn about marriage from home, media, their friend's parents and other family members. They don't need to promote traditional marriages in school.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lila said:


> I understand the seriousness of the post but it brought to mind this TT from a few years ago. Very funny but a great perspective on marriage.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8u42OjH0ss


I watched this 11 minute video.. at 1st I felt she was being sarcastic ...it was almost like a comedy skit mocking the institution...and I'm someone who never felt those things in a negative sense...I've always enjoyed being married ..... but my H never changed after the vows.. hes been wonderful.. ..ME...I've gotten better over the years..... we never want it to end .. One could say ...we like the ball & chain... ... I wanted to take my H's last name.. everything about the Tradition I love.... I don't want to apologize for this... 


Ok....so then she got into some of the Studies that have been done.. researchers spend billions on these things.. some of the ODD research she wanted to include in this presentation..... 


> *1*. In the happiest marriages, she says... the woman is thinner than the husband..she jokes about fattening him up.
> 
> *2*. when a couple focuses ON THE POSITIVES (no matter what happens, they can see the bright side encouraging each other)..
> 
> ...



Then she went on at *8:50* in the video... to list all the BENEFITS to getting married... (she redeemed herself.... good ending -to show some value in it -if you marry *wisely* that is)...

There are 1,000 significant legal benefits...married people generally make more $$, they are healthier, physically and emotionally, they produce happier more stable & successful children, she said they are having more sex







- over their swinging single friends and they live longer...that is.. if you marry someone YOU LIKE A LOT ...

She ends by saying it's an institution worth pursuing and protecting...


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> It has to roll out over the top. That's the proper method of dispensing TP.


Ah but what if you own a cat. By setting up your tissue to come up and over if your cat uses it's paw to give it a spin you'll soon have tissue all over your floor. By setting it up to come from underneath the same feline action would just cause the roll to spin and spin but no tissue ends up on the floor.

And yes we have such a cat and yes it happens to us every time.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He went on to note that in schools, teachers are cautious to even propose the model of traditional marriage to children in the classroom, afraid of being considered too narrow-minded. Inspectors have also questioned young children in school as to whether their teachers are promoting conventional understandings of the family, making them less eager to speak openly about marriage.
> 
> Isn't the reason they are being more open minded about talking about marriage in school so the kids with divorced parents, 2 same sex parents, foster parents, or single parents don't feel left out or like they have less of a family than someone else?
> I think the only thing they should teach is that families come in all shapes and sizes.
> ...


Do you think it is appropriate in that particular school?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bfree said:


> Ah but what if you own a cat. By setting up your tissue to come up and over if your cat uses it's paw to give it a spin you'll soon have tissue all over your floor. By setting it up to come from underneath the same feline action would just cause the roll to spin and spin but no tissue ends up on the floor.
> 
> And yes we have such a cat and yes it happens to us every time.


It just goes to show how bored I am that I actually realised that and came back to correct myself. I'd have to get rid of the cat in such a case.  Well, if the cat pleased my imaginary SO, I'd have to make sure the door to the bathroom was closed. 

Notice, nowhere did I say the toilet roll should be flipped.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> It just goes to show how bored I am that I actually realised that and came back to correct myself. I'd have to get rid of the cat in such a case.  Well, if the cat pleased my imaginary SO, I'd have to make sure the door to the bathroom was closed.
> 
> Notice, nowhere did I say the toilet roll should be flipped.


Well in my case "our" cat does indeed belong to my wife insofar as any cat belongs to any human. Actually now that I think about it she (and by extension me) belongs to the cat. Anywho, if you close the bathroom door to prevent a tissue roll tragedy how will you know when it is occupied? You may say that if the door is locked then it's occupied. But we usually don't lock the bathroom door so that in cases of "emergency" someone could still get in if they couldn't wait until someone was done showering. I suppose you could knock but there could still be embarrassing slips resulting in much frustration and yelling. Plus it would just become tedious after a while. When this problem first occurred my immediate suggestion was to leave the toilet seat lid up since the cat sits there to commit tissue-pocalypse. I'm sure you can figure out how well that went over. No, my friend I'm afraid for the good of all concerned this was one compromise that I had to make.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bfree said:


> Well in my case "our" cat does indeed belong to my wife insofar as any cat belongs to any human. Actually now that I think about it she (and by extension me) belongs to the cat. Anywho, if you close the bathroom door to prevent a tissue roll tragedy how will you know when it is occupied? You may say that if the door is locked then it's occupied. But we usually don't lock the bathroom door so that in cases of "emergency" someone could still get in if they couldn't wait until someone was done showering. I suppose you could knock but there could still be embarrassing slips resulting in much frustration and yelling. Plus it would just become tedious after a while. When this problem first occurred my immediate suggestion was to leave the toilet seat lid up since the cat sits there to commit tissue-pocalypse. I'm sure you can figure out how well that went over. No, my friend I'm afraid for the good of all concerned this was one compromise that I had to make.


I loved reading that.  I guess you'll just have to keep wiping the wall where you grab for the tissue and repaint often? I see the dilemma. We make sacrifices for pets and people we love. Something as simple as a sliding cover over the tissue, on a holder that sets back into the wall like the old fashioned ones, would seem like a great QVC product. I guess it would look something like a covered paint roller, if you know what I mean. I'm quite stubborn.  Let me see if I can find an image. I'm enjoying this.

One for the camp. Is this disgusting or what? 










This one is exactly what I was thinking of. It could be a bit less commercial looking, but it's what I had in mind.










I know, I know, it wouldn't get me laid because I didn't admit to being "wrong" and apologize, but I think it's cool. I'll get her a heated seat for the commode and make up the difference. Besides, I'd enjoy the heated seat myself. 

Maybe then I could get a reprieve from the governor and get some nookie? Cause that's what this is about, isn't it? She would blame me for being stubborn and not getting any because she shut it off due to my lack of empathy? Yeah, that sounds about right.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Wonder how many people lost a finger just trying to wipe their bum? bahahahaha


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Do you think it is appropriate in that particular school?


You mean in a Catholic school? You will have all kinds of families there too. Same sex, foster/other guardian, divorced, single. 

But other than just that. I don't see the point. Most people want their marriage to last whether they are taught it or not. I am not someone who looks at the divorce rate as something bad. It means people are not staying unhappy and stuck. Good for them. Of course a happy marriage that lasts until death do you part is the ideal and so many people already stay "for the kids" or because religion tells them they can't divorce. I don't think it's a choice anyone makes lightly. 

I also don't believe that not divorced = success and I absolutely believe that in many cases "kids would rather be from a broken home than live in one"


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I loved reading that.  I guess you'll just have to keep wiping the wall where you grab for the tissue and repaint often? I see the dilemma. We make sacrifices for pets and people we love. Something as simple as a sliding cover over the tissue, on a holder that sets back into the wall like the old fashioned ones, would seem like a great QVC product. I guess it would look something like a covered paint roller, if you know what I mean. I'm quite stubborn.  Let me see if I can find an image. I'm enjoying this.
> 
> One for the camp. Is this disgusting or what?
> 
> ...


I actually like those two tissue holders you posted but if I put either of them up I guarandamntee you I wouldn't have to worry about the cat anymore because I'd be in the doghouse. Lol

Besides, can you imagine the *ahem* "debris" that would end up on the little sliding door before tissue is touched?

The heated seat sounds like a plan though. I'd definitely earn brownie points with that one (no pun intended btw.)


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You mean in a Catholic school? You will have all kinds of families there too. Same sex, foster/other guardian, divorced, single.
> 
> But other than just that. I don't see the point. Most people want their marriage to last whether they are taught it or not. I am not someone who looks at the divorce rate as something bad. It means people are not staying unhappy and stuck. Good for them. Of course a happy marriage that lasts until death do you part is the ideal and so many people already stay "for the kids" or because religion tells them they can't divorce. I don't think it's a choice anyone makes lightly.
> 
> I also don't believe that not divorced = success and I absolutely believe that in many cases "kids would rather be from a broken home than live in one"


Yeah, a Catholic school. Are you or were you ever Roman Catholic? I don't know of any beliefs that make being a single parent less respectful or sinful. It all depends on how one handles it. What parts of Catholicism would agree with your thoughts? Why would a non-Catholic want to go to a parochial school and why would a parochial school have to conform to secular or any other beliefs?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Yeah, a Catholic school. Are you or were you ever Roman Catholic? I don't know of any beliefs that make being a single parent less respectful or sinful. It all depends on how one handles it. What parts of Catholicism would agree with your thoughts? Why would a non-Catholic want to go to a parochial school and why would a parochial school have to conform to secular or any other beliefs?


I am Agnostic. My kids are in Catholic school. My brother's kids are in Catholic school and they are from a non-religious divorced home. Like I said, there are all kinds of families there. 
Why? Because the school is better, I like the teachers. But I would pull them in a heart beat if they were teaching my kids that single parents or same sex parents were sinful. Luckily they leave the judgmenty stuff to church and just teach them things like reading and math.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bfree said:


> I actually like those two tissue holders you posted but if I put either of them up I guarandamntee you I wouldn't have to worry about the cat anymore because I'd be in the doghouse. Lol
> 
> Besides, can you imagine the *ahem* "debris" that would end up on the little sliding door before tissue is touched?
> 
> The heated seat sounds like a plan though. I'd definitely earn brownie points with that one (no pun intended btw.)


:lol: 

Yeah, I thought about the, as I like to pronounce it when I'm goofing around, "debriss" with the "ss" pronounced and the second syllable emphasized. 

Yeah, you'd have to build one first, too. That would suck until she realized it had a fully stocked fridge and bar, television and full compliment of your favorite videos, Robert Griffing paintings hanging on the wall, reloading equipment on a bench for working rifle stocks and inletting swanped rifle barrels and fitting brass hardware. Oh, forgot the stereo and mp3 files and cd's, of course 5.1 channel surround at minimum. A nice soft rocker, a sofa, a recliner and a few tables could round out the seating. A small hand-made table and chairs for eating would be nice along with a small double bowl sink and a small dishwasher. Did I forget the gas log fireplace for heat, with a thermostat controlled fan above and a quiet ac for the hot days? Insulation would help greatly and an area for the woodworking equipment and a lean-two style roof on the side or back with stacks of drying rough cut sugar maple, cherry, walnut and ash would round that off nicely. A burn pit on the side with some seating would be nice for the scraps of lumber that could not be used and would make a great addition for cool nights by a sweet smelling fire. 










Sorry, I got carried away. I'll awaken in a moment.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I am Agnostic. My kids are in Catholic school. My brother's kids are in Catholic school and they are from a non-religious divorced home. Like I said, there are all kinds of families there.
> Why? Because the school is better, I like the teachers. But I would pull them in a heart beat if they were teaching my kids that single parents or same sex parents were sinful. Luckily they leave the judgmenty stuff to church and just teach them things like reading and math.


You, an agnostic, would be offended if they taught Catholic doctrine and beliefs? Interesting.... Judgment is a part of life and all religious beliefs. My belief is that all religious schools should teach in a manner that supports their doctrine and beliefs. If you don't like it, you don't have to send your children there. There are other choices. I believe it's improper to force your counter Catholic or non-religious beliefs on an educational system based in Catholicism.

Why don't you agnostics and atheists get together and create a school that has no religious teachings or judgment? Oh, that's public school, and apparently it's failing by your standards. What would happen if you got everything you wanted in the Catholic school system? Do you think it would fail as badly as public schools?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)




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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He went on to note that in schools, teachers are cautious to even propose the model of traditional marriage to children in the classroom, afraid of being considered too narrow-minded. Inspectors have also questioned young children in school as to whether their teachers are promoting conventional understandings of the family, making them less eager to speak openly about marriage.
> 
> Isn't the reason they are being more open minded about talking about marriage in school so the kids with divorced parents, 2 same sex parents, foster parents, or single parents don't feel left out or like they have less of a family than someone else?
> I think the only thing they should teach is that families come in all shapes and sizes.
> ...


I agree....to a POINT.

My "problem" with that mindset is sort of with "undefining" families. Don't get me wrong at all - I am not homophobic, racist, gender-biased or any sort of bigot.

The issue (IMO) is that our society is working overtime in erasing conventional, historic and traditional "definitions" of all sorts.

I know this is an exaggeration, but not too long ago there was a headline story about a multi-millionaire who left her fortune to her dog.

Fast forward to the time when the "animal rights activists" join with the "undefine traditional marriage" folks and voila!

Tommy and Susy may very well have a Doberman father, and be raising their hands asking "what about us?" Then we have to go back to the drawing board and the laws and redefine it all - again.

As I said, I know that's exaggeration, but it truly does feel like that's the direction...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> You, an agnostic, would be offended if they taught Catholic doctrine and beliefs? Interesting.... Judgment is a part of life and all religious beliefs. My belief is that all religious schools should teach in a manner that supports their doctrine and beliefs. If you don't like it, you don't have to send your children there. There are other choices. I believe it's improper to force your counter Catholic or non-religious beliefs on an educational system based in Catholicism.
> 
> Why don't you agnostics and atheists get together and create a school that has no religious teachings or judgment? Oh, that's public school, and apparently it's failing by your standards. What would happen if you got everything you wanted in the Catholic school system? Do you think it would fail as badly as public schools?


I'm not forcing anything.They pray, they have religion class (the Jesus loves everyone and so should you kind), they do religious Christmas concerts, they have optional mass before classes. I'm fine with all that, my son eventually became agnostic on his own anyway.

But if they added judgement and fear based teaching it could lead to children feeling bad about their families, bullying other families and peers. That I'm not ok with and thankfully the school isn't either. If they were I wouldn't demand they change, it's not up to me. I would simply remove my kids from that environment. 
There's no reason to add marriage promotion to schools, any school. You learn it other place.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'm not forcing anything.They pray, they have religion class (the Jesus loves everyone and so should you kind), they do religious Christmas concerts, they have optional mass before classes. I'm fine with all that, my son eventually became agnostic on his own anyway.
> 
> But if they added judgement and fear based teaching it could lead to children feeling bad about their families, bullying other families and peers. That I'm not ok with and thankfully the school isn't either. If they were I wouldn't demand they change, it's not up to me. I would simply remove my kids from that environment.
> There's no reason to add marriage promotion to schools, any school. You learn it other place.


How does your son become agnostic on his own when he lives at home under the rules of the house and he is no where near a well rounded adult? I would think his parent/s would have to have influence or they would be pulling their hair out trying to get him/her to behave. 

Is catechism a part of the regular curriculum? It used to be. They taught us how and when to go to confession and worship in a manner that was appropriate. Is that separate from regular classes? It was a class we had to attend when I was there. 

If someone was doing something that was sinful and you refused to hang out with them, would that be judgmental? Oh, you wouldn't know. You are agnostic. I'm not sure how to state that for those who don't believe there are consequences and penance an soforth. Sorry I'm not up on all the lingo. I've fallen away and I'm not a good Catholic. I still believe, though.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I don't care what religion anyone is.. those of differing faiths may have even more in common with the belief that marriage is a good thing over those with no belief... 

It was funny...I was saying to my Husband not too long ago after reading a post here by Rose Aglow, wondering if in 20 yrs, it will just be Christians who care about Marriage... asking what he thought.. he immediately added..."and the gays!"...

One group is fighting for it's rights (somehow people care more about something when it's unattainable)... Christians are trying to preserve what they feel is a good model.. but the rest of society just doesn't care anymore.. they make up their own standards.....

I guess it all comes down to ones philosophy to what is taught to our children.. who will likely grow up with a very similar world view, unless our example was SO BAD, they want to run the other direction...

As we can see from this thread..Everyone has their own belief , what to aspire too, or what is ideal...

The tide has turned.. the Majority now adhere to what is called







...

Explained here... Marriage, living together, not finding any value in committing to one person, raising children together... .. it's all relative ..."subjective" to modern opinion today..just depends on who you ask!

Moral Relativism



> Moral Relativism– *What is it?*
> 
> Moral relativism is the view that moral or ethical statements, which vary from person to person, are all equally valid and no one’s opinion of “right and wrong” is really better than any other. Moral relativism is a broader, more personally applied form of other types of relativistic thinking, such as cultural relativism. These are all based on the idea that there is no ultimate standard of good or evil, so every judgment about right and wrong is purely a product of a person’s preferences and environment. There is no ultimate standard of morality, according to moral relativism, and no statement or position can be considered absolutely “right or wrong,” “best or worst.”
> 
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks for that, SA.

It gives new meaning to this sentence, whether you are a believer or not.



> So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


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