# Co Dependency in Marriage



## This is me (May 4, 2011)

One thing that was mentioned breifly at the end of our last MC session was the word Co Dependency. 

I am not sure I understand what the counselor was referring to, but after looking up information on Co Dependency, made me think that maybe there was some of that which is very unhealthy in a relationship.

Has anyone heard of this and can give a plain description of how this might play out in a marriage?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I've heard about it. You hear about it the most for kids and spouses of alcoholics, but that's just the stereotype. It applies to a lot of people. An extreme, polarized codependent relationship usually involves one person who plays the martyr and one person who is labled as the 'abuser'. The martyr will do anything to make the abuser happy, even destroy their own life and wellbeing. They have the classic mantra that 'nobody appreciates them.' The abuser just keeps taking and is the one overtly destroying the relationship. 

There are variations on the theme and certainly all relationships have some codependent tendencies that wax and wane as the years progress. If at any point you feel responsible for your spouses happiness and it is making you miserable then you've experienced codependency.


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## DailyGrind (Jun 27, 2010)

stritle said:


> well that point hit close to home...........


Here too! Is there a pill I can take?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I have a hard time understanding exactly what "codependency" means, because as a "nice guy" we share basically most of the same tendencies except I believe the motivation for those tendencies is very slightly different, the nice guy puts others ahead of himself out of fear of rejection and abandonment, the codependent does so because of compulsion. (I guess??)

I just googled this, and google returned a thread I started back in September:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/32008-nice-guy-syndrome-same-thing-codependency.html


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## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

Lon said:


> I have a hard time understanding exactly what "codependency" means, because as a "nice guy" we share basically most of the same tendencies except I believe the motivation for those tendencies is very slightly different, the nice guy puts others ahead of himself out of fear of rejection and abandonment, the codependent does so because of compulsion. (I guess??)
> 
> I just googled this, and google returned a thread I started back in September:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/32008-nice-guy-syndrome-same-thing-codependency.html


Hey there - I'm a co-dependent - have been most of my life. I'm now on my way to getting better and not being co-dependent any more. Let's see if I can help.

There is a vast difference between co-dependency (CD) and the "nice-guy" (or gal). How to explain.....

CD people do anything and everything to make the "abuser" they are with happy. It starts out simply with walking on eggshells a bit, trying not to upset the abuser. Then doing this or that to make the abuser happy in an effort to get much desired "love" from them. It's not really love, by the way. Then it gets worse - the CD, in most cases, put up with emotional/verbal abuse. In extreme cases, that abuse is even physical. The CD NEVER puts themselves first and will even blame themselves for the abuse they take - they deserve it. The CD begins to not see themselves of worthy of anything more than the treatment they are getting, and even believe they are bringing it on themselves. Then it's a matter of doing ANYTHING, even if it makes the CD terribly uphappy to do it, if it makes the abuser happy. Because now it's an effort to keep the peace and desparation for positive attention from the abuser. If that means doing/saying things the CD doesn't like, whatever, at this point the CD really doesn't have much self-esteem anyway. The CD will sacrifice everything for the abuser and everyone else around them, putting themselves last every time. They NEVER consider putting themselves first - that's selfish!! In fact, if the CD does put themselves first, the feelings of guilt often get overwhelming for having done so. CD gets worse and worse, because the person affected with it slowly disappears to a point that when (if) they do come out of it, they have NO IDEA who they are anymore or how to live life FOR THEMSELVES. It's tough. The CD will continue doing whatever they can to hide from the outside that their relationship is this dysfunctional because they internalize everything and take the blame for most everything that's going wrong. Most CD people are very good at beating themselves up. At the same time, they also have intense anger over their situation and blame the abuser for their hatred of themselves and their crap relationship. However, they internalize this anger, which eats away inside. They generally NEVER let that anger show. When it does get out, it's not pretty and then the CD has to go about making it all better after having a temper fit - terrible vicious cycle.

A nice guy or gal.... yeah... this is NOT them. HAHAHA! They're just a little too nice is all. If someone is doing something out of fear of abandonement, it's not nice-guy syndrome... it's a sign of CD. 

Mind you, there are variations on the symptoms a person with CD will exhibit... but the picture I painted here is typical of how it goes if allowed to contined for years. Get the book "Co-dependent no more" it explains it well. 

Also, trying to pin down a definition for CD is like trying to wrangle cats --- most psychologists will tell you they don't even attempt to give it a "definition" because it's hard to pin a definition on.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

julia71 said:


> Hey there - I'm a co-dependent - have been most of my life. I'm now on my way to getting better and not being co-dependent any more. Let's see if I can help.


So curious as to how a co-dependent goes about not being a co-dependent?


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## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

This is me said:


> So curious as to how a co-dependent goes about not being a co-dependent?


Oh, well that's trickier...and harder... that becoming a co-dependent...that's for sure!! 

IC is really suggested, especially if you have it bad. But, it can be done without that too. First thing, you have to do one of two things:

1. Get away from the co-dependent relationship. Meaning leave it.

or

2. You can stay, but you MUST make a concious effort to no longer put the abuser first. You MUST start doing the things that make you happy. EVEN IF IT MAKES THE ABUSER MAD.

Caveat: If it is a physically abusive relationship - leave. #2 is not an option.

There is a litany of things a co-dependent does to get better. I can't possibly post them all here.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Julia, thanks for that awesome reply. To me, as a NG it looks like so many of the same things I view the "nice guy" doing, and by "nice guy" I don't mean simply a man or woman who is sometimes "too nice", I mean the man whom has picked up a faulty paradigm for life and has deep-rooted systemic issues that cause feelings of inadequacy, settling for less, emptiness and even succumbing to forms of abuse, very similar to codependent (just maybe not to the same extent).

I am talking about the "nice guy syndrome" coined by this guy. Though perhaps the reason I find it difficult to differentiate between NG and CD is because I have traits of both?

Straight from the person who eventually coined it, Here are some things a NG thinks: "I'm one of the nicest guys I know." "How come I always seem to give so much more than I get?" "All I want is to be appreciated, is that asking too much?" "I can never do it right." 

Glover says "Sound familiar? These are typical Nice Guy sentiments. A nice guy's primary goal is to make others happy. Nice guys have been conditioned to believe that if they are good, giving, and caring, they will be loved, get what they want, and have a smooth life."

See more


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

julia71 said:


> Oh, well that's trickier...and harder... that becoming a co-dependent...that's for sure!!
> 
> IC is really suggested, especially if you have it bad. But, it can be done without that too. First thing, you have to do one of two things:
> 
> ...


So since this was briefly mentioned at MC I would like to ask more in IC. What is confusing is if this is a part of the relationship issue, which role does the MC believes each of us is in. I can actually see it both ways.

Her inital unhappiness has caused her to call me the abuser by recounting really old crap from many years ago, but since D day, I would call her the abuser and all my efforts have been to make her happy. 

Maybe I need to just let my brain rest.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

julia71 said:


> The CD NEVER puts themselves first... They NEVER consider putting themselves first - that's selfish!! In fact, if the CD does put themselves first, the feelings of guilt often get overwhelming for having done so.


This is also another key attribute of codependents. They think they're not putting themselves first but I think it is a cognitive distortion. My sister is also extremely codependent and she lives by this mantra. She has an ex husband who is an alcoholic/drug addict. He hit her, left her when she got pregnant, and now she's with some other drug addicts who frequently hit and abuse her, take her money, etc. I've seen her life get worse over the last ten years. She thinks that she's not putting herself first and had I not seen what goes on first-hand, I would believe that, too. But from what I've observed, she is putting herself first. It's a very dysfunctional attempt at getting, keeping, and securing love. Her spouse is her drug; she uses them like they use drugs. 

The distortion comes into play because CDs tell themselves they are putting themselves first but they are actually using that to justify controlling and abusive behavior on their part. The guilt that a CD feels when attempting to enforce their boundaries does not come from feeling bad about putting themselves first; it comes from a fear of how they would feel if another did not put them first. They cannot put themselves first because they would never want someone else to do that to them. You will often hear them say that they should be loved no matter what, that they wish someone would love them despite their faults. Their deepest fear is that no one will love them because they are too screwed up. To prove themselves wrong they need someone to love them no matter what, and so they must love other's no matter what. The fear a CD has when standing up for their boundaries stems from a fear that someone else would then have the freedom to stand up to them and leave them. Or that in standing up to their abuser the abuser would leave. That cannot happen. It would be the end of the world for them. The reality is CDs are controllers and abusers themselves who's soul goal in life is to play out this insane need to be loved. There's nothing benevolent, or unselfish about them. They get in abusive situations because they're afraid to be alone, and everything they do revolves around not being alone, around keeping love, and proving that they should be loved no matter what happens. They will be at the forefront of unconditional love, not because they actually love their abusers, but because they do not want to be alone. They have something to prove and they use their abusers to try and prove it. CDs dont compromise their needs, this is what they need.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

Putting the responsibility of your fulfillment and happiness in the hands of anyone else is problematic. Balances of power shift often in relationships, but they shouldn't remain permanently unbalanced to a degree that allows one person to be hurt all the time while another exploits the resources of that person. The person who is codependent needing the partner too much and not taking enough initiative to take care of the self. Continue to do this and your partner will stop seeing any value in you at all. I ended up becoming really codependent on my WH; he's really controlling and I yielded time and again to make him happy and it became abusive really fast. I even blamed myself for that. Trust me, you don't want to go down that road. You need to put yourself first so that your partner isn't perpetually responsible for you.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

Lon said:


> I have a hard time understanding exactly what "codependency" means, because as a "nice guy" we share basically most of the same tendencies except I believe the motivation for those tendencies is very slightly different, the nice guy puts others ahead of himself out of fear of rejection and abandonment, the codependent does so because of compulsion. (I guess??)
> 
> I just googled this, and google returned a thread I started back in September:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/32008-nice-guy-syndrome-same-thing-codependency.html


I have trouble with the whole notion of "nice guys and fear of rejection" I've always been a "Nice Guy" and never did stuff for anyone out of fear of rejection, I did it because I felt good doing it. What the H**l is wrong with the idea one can be more giving in a relationship than the other and it not being labeled as some sort of negative disorder? It seems strange that the main thing women always claim to want eventually drives them into the arms of someone the complete opposite, an lying a**h*le who would have an affair with a married woman. ;~)


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Codependecy takes on many forms. Codependency is really when people don't take care of their own needs and look to others/the relationship to meet all of their needs.

Someone who is codependent will stay in a toxic marriage. Someone who is codpenedent will set aside their own personal fulfillment as an individual to try to keep a relationship that is clearly not working. SOmeone who is codependent thinks that the relationship or person is what gives their life meaning and thinks that they are nothing without the relationship.

To be honest, the label "codependent" is meaningless. 

My concern about your wife and you sharing the same IC who is also your MC is that there is a lack of privacy in that situation. Your IC has already shared stuff with you that your wife has said to them during her own IC sessions. That is a conflict, epsecially if your wife is trying to establish a safe and confidential place where she can vent her feelings. Same goes for you.

Just so you know, most reputable therapists will only treat the couple or an individual, but not both, for the reasons I state above. 

The risk is also that your wife could start to feel like the therapist is siding with you and forging a closer relationship with you in your IC and that will no longer be able to be objective. Feeling "ganged up on" is a common outcome of this set up.

Therapists have to define who the client is in each situation. SO how can your therapist have therapeutic loyalty to you, your wife, and the marriage all at the same time? They can't, which is why most reputable therapists won't do it.

Just something to ponder. I'd hate for your wife to become disillusioned by the triangulation your therapist has set up with seeing you both in IC and MC and think that all therapy is ineffective, suspect, etc.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Good point. Our first MC mentioned he would not do both MC and IC, but he was not a good match for us. This one seems to be good for both of us and so far seems to be handling this well. The true test will be Monday night after WAW has her IC with her on Sunday and we have MC on Monday.

I will discuss this with the WAW either Sunday when she comes by or on Monday after MC. 

We can stay with her as an MC but maybe move our IC's elsewhere.


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