# My wife won't chaparone me



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Something on the light side for a change. My wife won't play chaperone for me during outcall massage. Wonder how other wives other than our open marriage members would respond.

So at age 75 I finally learned to accept Swedish full body relaxation massage. I always have anxiety, but after the practitioner has done my back I'm mellow and harmless.

My wife is very much into massage and helped me select massage therapists. I've now had experience with 4 female massage therapists and have noted how each deals with the understandable caution in working with male clients.

At one point I wondered how a male therapist would deal with a male client. Male LMTs are hard to find and the bio photos on most creep me out. I got a recommendation via the Nextdoor app, but he only does outcalls. There are several ladies in the neighborhood who use him and give him high reviews. (Hmm... I bet.)

I don't like the idea of outcalls but got curious and asked my wife if she would chaperone if I did an outcall massage. Nope, not interested in chaperoning. 

Today I revisited this question out of curiosity. I pointed out that I've had bad experience with same sex medical providers, including being inappropriately fondled, so I don't assume that same sex providers are a safe place.

She acknowledged this, but still no go. Then I asked her whether she would chaperone if I had an outcall massage with a female practitioner. She acted sort of surprised, asked me whether I intended to have a female outcall massage. 

After more than 45 years together I can read the signals. I would risk serious damage if I did. I assured her the question was theoretical.

So what happens out there in the real world?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dragging a table, towels, sheet, oils, pillow, etc. to your house is a lot of hassle. Go to their office or go to someone else's office.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Young at Heart said:


> Dragging a table, towels, sheet, oils, pillow, etc. to your house is a lot of hassle. Go to their office or go to someone else's office.


I do go to the studios. I would not even contemplate an outcall unless my wife chaperoned. The fact that one of the few male LMTs does only outcalls brought up the question. Again, I have had issues (inappropriate fondling) with a male doctor so I would need a chaperone even with a male practitioner.

My wife was a massage practitioner and I think I remember her going to one (female) client's house. She had a portable table. She was against a third person in the room unless it was a child. Maybe that is the basis for her response.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

So, are you concerned that the male massage therapist could do something inappropriate, and if so, you'd like your wife there as a witness? Or that something inappropriate won't likely happen if she's there?


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

*Deidre* said:


> So, are you concerned that the massage therapist could do something inappropriate, and if so, you'd like your wife there as a witness?


Either or both, yes.

Even at massage offices I am good with a location where there are other people outside and would not be uncomfortable with a chaperone. I have had questions I would like to have been able to ask the practitioner, but I don't know what the therapists consider red flags with male clients which is one reason I thought to try a male practitioner. With a third person in the room I might be comfortable in asking questions.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If your wife is a massage therapist surely the safest thing would be for her to do it? It would help your marriage as well. 
I wouldn't actually go to an opposite sex masseur but that's just me. 

Surely if the guy comes to the house she can just be around? She doesn't need to be in the room.


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

I'm not real clear on the need for a chaperone in the first place.
I understand inappropriate things _might_ happen, but wouldn't you just tell them to FO if it did?
Lesson learned on that guy and give him a bad review (which would just be advertising for him).

I wouldn't do the opposite-sex massage assuming you actually want to stay married.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Diana7 said:


> If your wife is a massage therapist surely the safest thing would be for her to do it? It would help your marriage as well.
> I wouldn't actually go to an opposite sex masseur but that's just me.
> 
> Surely if the guy comes to the house she can just be around? She doesn't need to be in the room.


My wife is no longer able to do massage due to stroke and age. I've only let her give me massage a couple of times when I acted as practice dummy while she was in massage school. I have a hangup about being pampered and feeling it is an imposition on her. 

I mentioned this to one of the massage therapists I've checked out and her reply was, "It's not an imposition here. You're paying for it." 🙂

I've had a hard time being able to accept anyone touching me for massage, but given my personal experience with male medical providers and psychologist it's almost a tossup as to which I'm more comfortable with. Other than the shock of having a female urologist without prior warning, I am tending towards female providers.

Yeah, just her being around would do the trick.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I'm not real clear on the need for a chaperone in the first place.
> I understand inappropriate things _might_ happen, but wouldn't you just tell them to FO if it did?
> Lesson learned on that guy and give him a bad review (which would just be advertising for him).
> 
> I wouldn't do the opposite-sex massage assuming you actually want to stay married.


I've been through the "inappropriate things" and am not ready to do a repeat or waste my time. My wife is good with opposite sex massage as she had male clients in her massage business.

Or I guess she is. At one point she made the comment, "Having women put their hands all over your body..." which left me a bit puzzled. But she has been involved in helping me select LMTs.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Julie's Husband said:


> I've been through the "inappropriate things" and am not ready to do a repeat or waste my time. My wife is good with opposite sex massage as she had male clients in her massage business.
> 
> Or I guess she is. At one point she made the comment, "Having women put their hands all over your body..." which left me a bit puzzled. But she has been involved in helping me select LMTs.


For me it depends on what you are having. If its just say a neck/shoulder massage, then maybe an opposite sex person would be just about acceptable. Even then I would feel really uncomfortable about a guy doing that. All over, no way, that's for Mr D only.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Diana7 said:


> For me it depends on what you are having. If its just say a neck/shoulder massage, then maybe an opposite sex person would be just about acceptable. Even then I would feel really uncomfortable about a guy doing that. All over, no way, that's for Mr D only.


I feel uncomfortable with men handling me as well, so I can relate. I'm uncomfortable with either sex, but am currently better with female caregivers. Maybe it is the socialization that women are caregivers.

Funny note is that my current massage therapist is the type that will give you a touch on the arm or whatever to emphasize something in conversation. I am still puzzling over whether I am good with these casual touches even after she's had her hands over much of my body for massage.

So how would you feel if Mr. D had a female urologist whose job it is to put her finger up his rectum to feel his prostate or give him genital exams for testicular cancer and fibrous tissue in the penis?

Maybe a thread on how spouses react to opposite sex caregivers would be interesting.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Julie's Husband said:


> I feel uncomfortable with men handling me as well, so I can relate. I'm uncomfortable with either sex, but am currently better with female caregivers. Maybe it is the socialization that women are caregivers.
> 
> Funny note is that my current massage therapist is the type that will give you a touch on the arm or whatever to emphasize something in conversation. I am still puzzling over whether I am good with these casual touches even after she's had her hands over much of my body for massage.
> 
> ...


If it's done out of medical necessity then no problem. With the NHS you can't choose who you have treat you. 
I wouldn't want a women to give him a full body massage. No way. Nor would I go to a man.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Diana7 said:


> If it's done out of medical necessity then no problem. With the NHS you can't choose who you have treat you.
> I wouldn't want a women to give him a full body massage. No way. Nor would I go to a man.


Medical necessity does not make it better for me. Worse if anything as the LMTs respect my boundaries where the doctors do not.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

As long as you go to a reputable, licensed therapist, there should be no issue. 

Not "Mama Lulu's" happy endings.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

BootsAndJeans said:


> As long as you go to a reputable, licensed therapist, there should be no issue.
> 
> Not "Mama Lulu's" happy endings.


The issue is doing outcall. I will not do outcall, but the question came up when I was curious about male practitioners and found one of the few does outcalls only.

Actually, like I said, a third party might make it easier to really communicate with the LMT. There is a definite air of caution and I don't know what might be a red flag so I just don't question. With a third party, both the LMT and I can feel at ease with the conversation.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Julie's Husband said:


> I do go to the studios. I would not even contemplate an outcall unless my wife chaperoned. The fact that one of the few male LMTs does only outcalls brought up the question. Again, I have had issues (inappropriate fondling) with a male doctor so I would need a chaperone even with a male practitioner.
> 
> My wife was a massage practitioner and I think I remember her going to one (female) client's house. She had a portable table. She was against a third person in the room unless it was a child. Maybe that is the basis for her response.


If it makes you feel any better, I, a female, have been uncomfortable with male masseuses as well, and avoid them. I have been uncomfortable with one male chiropractor, but only one. I think it's a common problem, because I think masseuses as well as chiropractic offices have to do bait-and-switch to get their male practitioners doing their share because I think both men and women often prefer female masseuses. I know I made an appointment with a masseuse/chiropractor woman I liked, and she totally dumped me on this creepy guy. She shared the rent with him and was likely doing all the work. I never went back. 

My current chiropractor, who hasn't done any massage, turns as much over to his female assistant as possible and comes in at the end to do some maneuvers. I like that fine. 

I think your wife is trying not to enable your anxiety so that you have to learn to cope with it. But you know, it's okay to cope by having preferences. Find one you like and stick with them.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I personally don't see the issue, but that's me. Its different for everyone. My husband would feel uncomfortable with a female massage therapist I suspect whereas I wouldn't bat an eyelid with a male. Hell, my OBGYN is a man lol. I found women to be too rough, true story.

If a male massage therapist tried anything hokey with me I'd kick him in the balls and walk out 🤷‍♀️


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

frusdil said:


> I personally don't see the issue, but that's me. Its different for everyone. My husband would feel uncomfortable with a female massage therapist I suspect whereas I wouldn't bat an eyelid with a male. Hell, my OBGYN is a man lol. I found women to be too rough, true story.
> 
> If a male massage therapist tried anything hokey with me I'd kick him in the balls and walk out 🤷‍♀️


In the not too recent past, women didn't have a whole lot of choice on OBGYNs. At that time I thought that was unfair to women as I'm pretty big on modesty.

My aversion to touch is / was not sex specific. I've never learned how to interpret or respond to social touch so I'm very uncomfortable with it. On the other hand, I've always been terrified of becoming inappropriately aroused during more invasive / personal touch in medical exams and massage as my libido responds to all touch.

My libido was down after being medically castrate for most of 2020 and I decided to take advantage of that and try massage to ease the tension, emotions and depression brought on by medical treatments. I thought maybe I could take advantage of the lower libido and desensitize to touch.

This has worked out quite well even after having pretty much recovered.

I've been put in awkward situations by persons of both sexes so I still have my guard up and appreciate having a chaperone in situations that have any potential for going off the tracks. Doesn't always work, of course, as a nurse was looking on the entire time that the male doctor inappropriately fondled me in my late 50s.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Julie's Husband said:


> In the not too recent past, women didn't have a whole lot of choice on OBGYNs. At that time I thought that was unfair to women as I'm pretty big on modesty.
> 
> My aversion to touch is / was not sex specific. I've never learned how to interpret or respond to social touch so I'm very uncomfortable with it. On the other hand, I've always been terrified of becoming inappropriately aroused during more invasive / personal touch in medical exams and massage as my libido responds to all touch.
> 
> ...


Having had 3 children back in the 80's, and had many cervical smear tests and other such things such as a hysterectomy, mainly by men, I just separated the medical out. I am a pretty modest person but there are times when you just let the doctors do what they need to do. 

A massage to me is totally different and I would never have a male masseur, especially a full body massage.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Diana7 said:


> Having had 3 children back in the 80's, and had many cervical smear tests and other such things such as a hysterectomy, mainly by men, I just separated the medical out. I am a pretty modest person but there are times when you just let the doctors do what they need to do.
> 
> A massage to me is totally different and I would never have a male masseur, especially a full body massage.


I'm done with letting doctors do what they need to do. Doctors need to treat the whole patient and too many fail miserably.

In most of my experience, doctors treat us as objects with no respect for us as persons. I'm done with that and, rather than just reacting, I now take control and make sure they respond to who I am as an individual. Simple regard for a patient's sense of modesty is a good starting point.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Julie's Husband said:


> I'm done with letting doctors do what they need to do. Doctors need to treat the whole patient and too many fail miserably.
> 
> In most of my experience, doctors treat us as objects with no respect for us as persons. I'm done with that and, rather than just reacting, I now take control and make sure they respond to who I am as an individual. Simple regard for a patient's sense of modesty is a good starting point.


I have never had any concerns over how I was treated.


----------



## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Julie's Husband said:


> The issue is doing outcall. I will not do outcall, but the question came up when I was curious about male practitioners and found one of the few does outcalls only.
> 
> Actually, like I said, a third party might make it easier to really communicate with the LMT. There is a definite air of caution and I don't know what might be a red flag so I just don't question. With a third party, both the LMT and I can feel at ease with the conversation.


it’s simple - you communicate ahead of time about what your expectations are. Be clear what areas NOT to touch.
No one needs to accompany you - you seem old enough to communicate this on your own.
Then let the therapist do the work they are paid to do.


----------



## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Julie's Husband said:


> I'm done with letting doctors do what they need to do. Doctors need to treat the whole patient and too many fail miserably.
> 
> In most of my experience, doctors treat us as objects with no respect for us as persons. I'm done with that and, rather than just reacting, I now take control and make sure they respond to who I am as an individual. Simple regard for a patient's sense of modesty is a good starting point.


this is good - but I still don’t understand why you expect your wife to be with you.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

My chiro-physical therapy person is a woman. She tears me me up, but wholly cow, it feels better afterwards


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Diana7 said:


> I have never had any concerns over how I was treated.


You are either fortunate or accepting. Either way it works for you. I think most people just accept doctors as authority figures and don't question.

My wife's last male OBGYN told her that people put doctors up on pedestals, that doctors don't know everything.

I no longer accept doctors just doing their thing. I want to know what will be involved, what they are doing and why. As an example, on my first visit to my urologist a young lady came in and told me to lay on the table and drop my pants. No preamble as to what or why. That is unacceptable.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Beach123 said:


> it’s simple - you communicate ahead of time about what your expectations are. Be clear what areas NOT to touch.
> No one needs to accompany you - you seem old enough to communicate this on your own.
> Then let the therapist do the work they are paid to do.


I know they will not exceed my boundaries, but I do tell them that I will let them know if I'm uncomfortable. And I have. One problem is that I've not had enough experience with massage.

However, I'm in a strange place right now as these new experiences and the experience from medical treatment have me questioning my boundaries. At this point I might be comfortable with what may be no go or cautionary areas for them. Not sure how to communicate that.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Beach123 said:


> this is good - but I still don’t understand why you expect your wife to be with you.


Only on outcall. And as noted above, I realize now that it is sufficient that the practitioner know she is nearby, underlining the fact that the appointment is not for sexual purposes.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

BootsAndJeans said:


> My chiro-physical therapy person is a woman. She tears me me up, but wholly cow, it feels better afterwards


Actually, I'm tending towards female providers all around. 

I'm still learning to deal with the female urologist and have discussed concerns. Dunno how she views me. I get snarky as she has shown little support for my maintaining sexual function during cancer treatment. She often has (mostly male) "note takers" with her pounding keyboards. I make sure everyone in the room knows about my experience in being sexually active while castrate and with multiple orgasms. So far, I don't think the urologist has learned from my experience and don't think she is supporting other men in being sexually active during hormone treatment (castrate). A work in progress.

I get a better feeling from the staff of my female dentist than I have from staff working with a male dentist. More at ease, not catering to a male authority figure. 

The male psychologist I went to put me off as he seemed to assume male bonding and seemed to be unable to understand mind set outside that sphere. I'm currently working with a female LCSW recommended by a female psychologist who is booked up.

I've dumped my PCP for a similar reason and will be trying a female provider this month.

And, of course, female massage practitioners.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Julie's Husband said:


> You are either fortunate or accepting. Either way it works for you. I think most people just accept doctors as authority figures and don't question.
> 
> My wife's last male OBGYN told her that people put doctors up on pedestals, that doctors don't know everything.
> 
> I no longer accept doctors just doing their thing. I want to know what will be involved, what they are doing and why. As an example, on my first visit to my urologist a young lady came in and told me to lay on the table and drop my pants. No preamble as to what or why. That is unacceptable.


I guess I am pretty accepting and once you have had 3 children you accept most things.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm not in the same boat but I can't be touched by men in most situations. I'm fine with a male chiropractor but not masseuse.

I am very uncomfortable stripping for a physical in front of a male doctor and I can't even let a man cut my hair.

I get your angst though for different reasons.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

ConanHub said:


> I'm not in the same boat but I can't be touched by men in most situations. I'm fine with a male chiropractor but not masseuse.
> 
> I am very uncomfortable stripping for a physical in front of a male doctor and I can't even let a man cut my hair.
> 
> I get your angst though for different reasons.


I'm surprised with your discomfort with male medical providers and hair cutters. 

I neglected to mention that I haven't had a male hair cutter in about 40 or so years. The last one I did have was into competitions so that was interesting.

My personal caution in disrobing for medical exams is that I want only qualified medical care givers present. They can be either male or female. That would be someone who provides a hands on part of medical care. I have a strong sense of modesty and resent being on display in front of anyone who does not have a valid reason to view me disrobing.

On my first visit to my urologist I had a panic attack. In the first place, I wanted a verbal only consultation on the first visit so I could prepare for whatever was to come. I no longer am good with not knowing what to expect.

Not only had I not been warned that I would be having a woman poke around my genitals, but she had two administrative types with her to take notes. I was not good with having a woman poke around and I was not good with having an audience of voyeurs.

The only positive was that I didn't have to worry about inappropriately becoming aroused while in the middle of a panic attack.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Julie's Husband said:


> I feel uncomfortable with men handling me as well, so I can relate. I'm uncomfortable with either sex, but am currently better with female caregivers. Maybe it is the socialization that women are caregivers.
> 
> Funny note is that my current massage therapist is the type that will give you a touch on the arm or whatever to emphasize something in conversation. I am still puzzling over whether I am good with these casual touches even after she's had her hands over much of my body for massage.
> 
> ...


I have been with my wife at all her exams since pregnant with our 1st. She rather I be in the room, especially with a male GYN. She just turns her head and looks at me during the exam or if I am sitting beside the table, she holds my hand. 

I recently had issue with upper back and went to female masseuse my sister goes to. She said there is a sheet that I will be covered with and get undressed as I am comfortable with. She came back in room and laughed, said I was just like my 72yr old rancher BinL. She came in to work on him and he was shirtless with his sox and jeans on. Well it was in upper back, she explained how hip correlates to shoulder, knee to elbow, feet to hands. Ex. Pain in shoulder could be caused from hip on same side. So next time I will drop to my boxers so she can get to the gluteus and hip joints. But wife will most definitely be present.

She showed my wife some things, she was doing some muscle stretching and you could hear the muscle connective causing crackle under my skin as she worked. I was sore for couple of days and have not had the pain since.

That place had signs up that basically if you request something inappropriate you will be tossed out on your ass!


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Julie's Husband said:


> I'm surprised with your discomfort with male medical providers and hair cutters.
> 
> I neglected to mention that I haven't had a male hair cutter in about 40 or so years. The last one I did have was into competitions so that was interesting.
> 
> ...


Never go in the military. I had a whole class of female med-techs observe my vasectomy prep. Part of their class. Really weird running into one at the chow hall a week later.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> I have been with my wife at all her exams since pregnant with our 1st. She rather I be in the room, especially with a male GYN. She just turns her head and looks at me during the exam or if I am sitting beside the table, she holds my hand.
> 
> I recently had issue with upper back and went to female masseuse my sister goes to. She said there is a sheet that I will be covered with and get undressed as I am comfortable with. She came back in room and laughed, said I was just like my 72yr old rancher BinL. She came in to work on him and he was shirtless with his sox and jeans on. Well it was in upper back, she explained how hip correlates to shoulder, knee to elbow, feet to hands. Ex. Pain in shoulder could be caused from hip on same side. So next time I will drop to my boxers so she can get to the gluteus and hip joints. But wife will most definitely be present.
> 
> ...


They are great. The woman DC and her female PT, tear me up. But holy cow, the relief afterwards.


----------



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Never go in the military. I had a whole class of female med-techs observe my vasectomy prep. Part of their class. Really weird running into one at the chow hall a week later.


In treatment for prostate cancer young ladies fussed around in an area uncomfortable for me. 

I have three pin point tattoos that are used for aligning the radiation beam; one just about 2 inches above my penis and one at the same height on either hip. I had to lay on the table and drop my pants to just at the top of my penis and the young ladies lined me up with the laser markers.

Since I was medically castrate and no libido I thought I would be able to relax while they did their stuff. When one of the ladies gave my shorts a shove further South, I found that was not going to work for me. I laid down the law that I would be the one adjusting the height of my shorts and the modesty blanket. They were not to have their hands near my genitals without consulting me ahead of time.


----------



## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Yup...happened to me when she tried to shave me


----------

