# EA is so easy



## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

My new mentor invited me to special work events, then 1-on-1 projects soon followed by deep conversations, then overt comments and emails from him about our "special connection," and then hugs and finally a demand for a kiss. I immediately put distance there (missing meetings, not answering intimate-sounding emails, and insisting on having him meet H), and I initiated conversations w H about all of this without identifying who. H seems uninterested in details or identification. The truth is that the "connection" with this mentor is or was quite real and filled a gap that persists with H. H struggles to engage in the kind of conversation I crave whereas my mentor and I share interests and have a similar background. I loved our conversations! I miss them and at the same time hate myself for that.

There are holes in my relationship with H that, after 12 years, I suspect may never be filled whereas occasionally I do meet someone like my mentor who fills that gap. Some days i feel desperate to get that satisfaction in meaningful conversation that creates a deep sense of feeling truly HEARD. 

H likely has ADHD and has trouble tracking conversation. He looks away, either does not make eye contact or stops, does not pay attention to gestures or facial expressions (ex: If I point to something, he does not look in that direction), changes the subject in midconversation, seems to drift off, does not "chime in" or respond but remains silent (and has admitted he was "thinking of something else" and that is why he did not pay attention), etc. I want to cry, I feel so unheard. (In couple's counseling, after I answered the therapist's question to me, the therapist turned to H and said "You were obviously not paying attention, is there a reason?" H admitted he had not heard a word I said and explained, "As soon as she started talking I knew what she was going to say and I wasn't interested in it, so I thought of more interesting things." The therapist's jaw dropped and he was speechless. All I could say was "THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! HELP!!!")

So there is a great temptation to fall into the kind of EA that began so quickly and easily with my mentor. I really miss the "offender" and am chagrined that I let my boundaries slip so quickly. I suspect he picked up on my neediness. (And I think he is angry at me now, and I actually need to continue working with him at some point--awkward.)

I have tried repeatedly to tell H what happened and with whom, but again he does not "attend" enough to seem to care. I WANT him to ask "Who was it? What happened? What can we do together to prevent this?" but he cannot seem to maintain interest enough to inquire or care. This adds to my consternation, frustration, and need for a "real" conversation. 

I have directed H to our battered copy of "His Needs, Her Needs," repeatedly--we read it out loud together--he loses interest quickly, says "I already read that" and I say "but it does not seem to mean anything to you" (about my need just to TALK and be heard). I explain the meaning of the word "need." This does not, apparently, increase H's ability to satisfy my stated need. (I.e., for conversation.)

I worry that I will suffer the remainder of my marriage without this necessary satisfaction and/or be susceptible over and over to allowing men to cross a line with me simply because of my hunger for conversation. 

Do I need to bluntly tell H who this happened with? I am not sure the detail is as important, now, as the simple fact that this will tempt me again and again out of sheer "Hunger for conversation." My loneliness scares me sometimes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does your husband have a job/career? What does he do for a living?

Is he incapable of listening to his boss and others he works with?

I would like answer to those questions before I can comment on the rest of your post.


.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

What is this mentor and why do you need him, rather than someone who you are not attracted to? My first thought is for you to separate yourself from this particular mentor, if you can find another. You may explain to your manager that you feel he is being inappropriate at times. 

Secondly, I hope you are continuing in your marriage counseling. 

I'm also wondering when this all started. If there was a time when something changed in the marriage or in his personality or yours. 

I'm hoping to get you to provide more information for those who might have some answers. Thanks.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

H = Retired physician. He admits he never had to really look at his assistants, just bark orders, ditto with patients; so little time, you just get to the point swiftly and move on due to time constraints imposed by insurance companies. He admits that years of being forced into that m.o. created "bad behaviors" of just telling people what to do and not having time to listen. As a dr he had to always be thinking in his head quickly to the diagnosis and treatment and getting it over with even though he really wished he had more time with a patient. Plus, patients are very repetitive, you quickly realize same-ole, same ole and that's that. He was a real rebel when he was fresh out of med school, into the holistic model, and that gets beaten out of you by "the system." His first office was a shared-profit co-op style clinic that also offered free medical care to the indigent. In the end he had to suck up to the system that just churns people through a revolving door. It was very hard on him.

Since he retired his blood pressure has dropped to the point that he hardly needs medication. That's how stressful it was toward the end with the new regulations that severely discouraged listening to patients or having a real conversation. I don't know if that is an excuse, though, for his seeming inability to just LISTEN. 

This is his first marriage. It is my third.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> What is this mentor and why do you need him, rather than someone who you are not attracted to? My first thought is for you to separate yourself from this particular mentor, if you can find another. You may explain to your manager that you feel he is being inappropriate at times.
> 
> Secondly, I hope you are continuing in your marriage counseling.
> 
> ...


This man is THE EXPERT (nationally) in the field that I had hoped to gravitate to following H's retirement and our move to a new area. This expert literally wrote the book on the subject. To learn from him would be a tremendous gift. He has offered to teach me just about everything but now things have gone too far in the wrong direction. He is known for his temper and negativity and now I am a little afraid of being on his bad side. But I should not second-guess what will happen now. All I know is that I will not be alone with him ever again. Yet I still want to learn from him.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Reading other threads about EA's reminded me that the first 6-10 years of our marriage were (as Princess Di put it) "crowded." With HIS ex GF's. He lived under the absolute impression that you should always remain friends w/ your exes, period. And basically he was having EA's with all of them. And because we lived apart (two houses, commuter marriage, 1 1/2 hrs' drive apart, saw each other on weekends), he went out to lunch weekly with one, one came by several times a year for overnights with or without her kids (she lived out of state), another particularly bitter one always came to our parties to trash me in front of everyone, etc., and he said "Well, I have known her longer than I have been with you, so I can't tell her to stop coming to my parties." 

Eventually I convinced him that he was (1) confusing these women with his double message and (2) offending our marriage. One day he said "I think I will spend the next 10 years of our marriage apologizing for the first ten." 

So maybe he is immune to caring whether I have an EA with a work acquaintance. Or he just thinks all of this is normal. Because to him those weren't really EA's or affairs of any sort. They were just... hanging out with friends (friends that he used to sleep with, but who cares). 

Remembering those painful years does not feel good. So I don't want to be the one perpetuating that kind of seemingly innocent offense. It is not innocent and it is very offensive.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

questar1 said:


> This man is THE EXPERT (nationally) in the field that I had hoped to gravitate to following H's retirement and our move to a new area. This expert literally wrote the book on the subject. To learn from him would be a tremendous gift. He has offered to teach me just about everything but now things have gone too far in the wrong direction. He is known for his temper and negativity and now I am a little afraid of being on his bad side. But I should not second-guess what will happen now. All I know is that I will not be alone with him ever again. Yet I still want to learn from him.


I'm also wondering when this all started(husband's issues with not caring about what you say). If there was a time when something changed in the marriage or in H's personality or yours.

I saw your answer to this above. I quoted before I read further.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

questar1 said:


> H = Retired physician. He admits he never had to really look at his assistants, just bark orders, ditto with patients; so little time, you just get to the point swiftly and move on due to time constraints imposed by insurance companies. He admits that years of being forced into that m.o. created "bad behaviors" of just telling people what to do and not having time to listen. As a dr he had to always be thinking in his head quickly to the diagnosis and treatment and getting it over with even though he really wished he had more time with a patient. Plus, patients are very repetitive, you quickly realize same-ole, same ole and that's that. He was a real rebel when he was fresh out of med school, into the holistic model, and that gets beaten out of you by "the system." His first office was a shared-profit co-op style clinic that also offered free medical care to the indigent. In the end he had to suck up to the system that just churns people through a revolving door. It was very hard on him.
> 
> Since he retired his blood pressure has dropped to the point that he hardly needs medication. That's how stressful it was toward the end with the new regulations that severely discouraged listening to patients or having a real conversation. I don't know if that is an excuse, though, for his seeming inability to just LISTEN.
> 
> This is his first marriage. It is my third.


So he has developed the habit of not listening to other people, even those who are important to him.

Is there anyone or anything that is important enough to him that he pays attending and actually listens to them?

I would think that the two of you need some kind of exercises to teach him how to stop and listen and that teach you how to not talk to him until he is listening. Ask your counselor about that. If the counselor does not know how to do this, get a better counselor.

Sometimes talking sticks are used to teach this. The person holding the stick gets to talk. And the other person has to listen. And then the listener has to repeat, in their own words what the talker said. You two really need this.

I was married to a doctor at one point. What I found is that their training and professional atmosphere teaches them that they are the only ones whose words matter. It's a form of arrogance that they are taught. Sure the things that you talk about contribute, but even without that medical school, internship and residency teaches doctors that they are special. I watched my then husband turn into someone very different as he went through medical school, residency and internship.

You husband really needs to learn that you are as important as he is and that he had better start listening to what you have to say if he wants you to stay with him. Does he realize that your relationship is at great risk?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

questar1 said:


> My new mentor invited me to special work events, then 1-on-1 projects soon followed by deep conversations, then overt comments and emails from him about our "special connection," and then hugs and finally a demand for a kiss. I immediately put distance there (missing meetings, not answering intimate-sounding emails, and insisting on having him meet H), and I initiated conversations w H about all of this without identifying who. H seems uninterested in details or identification. The truth is that the "connection" with this mentor is or was quite real and filled a gap that persists with H. H struggles to engage in the kind of conversation I crave whereas my mentor and I share interests and have a similar background. I loved our conversations! I miss them and at the same time hate myself for that.
> 
> There are holes in my relationship with H that, after 12 years, I suspect may never be filled whereas occasionally I do meet someone like my mentor who fills that gap. Some days i feel desperate to get that satisfaction in meaningful conversation that creates a deep sense of feeling truly HEARD.
> 
> ...


Why are you staying in a marriage that is so hurtful to you?

Yes, EAs are very easy to slip into. Yours is a prime example of what happens. Your emotional needs are not met by your husband and this leaves you vulnerable to someone who will fill them.

You would probably benefit from reading the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It talks about how and why this happens.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Honestly, your H sounds like he may be on the spectrum a little bit. Was he ever tested for that?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

questar1 said:


> I have tried repeatedly to tell H what happened and with whom, but again he does not "attend" enough to seem to care. I WANT him to ask "Who was it? What happened? What can we do together to prevent this?" but he cannot seem to maintain interest enough to inquire or care. This adds to my consternation, frustration, and need for a "real" conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> Do I need to bluntly tell H who this happened with? I am not sure the detail is as important, now, as the simple fact that this will tempt me again and again out of sheer "Hunger for conversation." My loneliness scares me sometimes.


 Did you tell your husband what you wrote here with no minimizing of your "mentor's" behavior?

Yes, you probably need to bluntly tell him who and exactly what happened and the context in which it happened in. If he shows no concern after that, then maybe he just doesn't care, and you are a convenience more than a need. 
You say the mentor fills a space unfilled by your husband, but does he also fill all of the spaces that your husband DOES fill? Nobody is a 100% complete package. You will ALWAYS find traits in someone else that you admire more than your husband, but he's your husband. If those traits were an issue than you probably shouldn't have married him.



questar1 said:


> This man is THE EXPERT (nationally) in the field that I had hoped to gravitate to following H's retirement and our move to a new area. This expert literally wrote the book on the subject. To learn from him would be a tremendous gift. He has offered to teach me just about everything but now things have gone too far in the wrong direction. He is known for his temper and negativity and now I am a little afraid of being on his bad side. But I should not second-guess what will happen now. All I know is that I will not be alone with him ever again. Yet I still want to learn from him.


 This EXPERT is using your want of knowledge and his elevated status in that field to try to get in your pants. I'd posit if you were a man he'd have nothing to do with you, so you should probably realize your deep talks and "connection" are all a bull**** filled player's game to get what he wants, a sidepiece. If you are willing to "play the game" to gain the knowledge you seek, then I guess your decision is made, if not maybe you can use his stature against him by saying you are married, not interested in a sexual relationship with said mentor, and if he retaliates you can suggest you will expose his behavior. *Is this "mentor" married?* Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

e.t.a. It sounds like you realize you are on a slippery slope, so anymore slide down that slope would be an intentional decision, not a mistake or an accident.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

jlg07 said:


> Honestly, your H sounds like he may be on the spectrum a little bit. Was he ever tested for that?


The question of spectrum disorder has come up with two different counselors who suggested maybe a specific kind of ADHD or a semi-Asperger's affect. Two OTHER counselors said "this is behavioral and can be changed by someone willing to learn and practice." Our most recent counselor summed it up after half a dozen evaluative sessions: "WHat I see is someone who is ignorant about a lot of things and when those gaps are pointed out to him, flatly refuses to pay attention." For the first time I felt like someone had really drawn a bead on my guy! 

Our ongoing debate and mine internally is whether this gaping "hole" in my satisfaction outweighs the other aspects of the marriage. His continued relationships with the exes drove me at last to give up on expecting change, and to purchase a house out of state and tell him I was moving there with or without him, his choice. He is here. He retired and he is here and he is determined to stay here and remain married. We sold both our other houses and for the first time we live together full time. He is a remarkably loving, good guy so I feel like a jerk for having this complaint. Also, isn't this the most common complaint we women have about men? THEY DON'T LISTEN.

Except some do, at least for a while, and that is how they seduce us. 

I am not willing to be temporarily drawn into an EA just because of a tempting "connection." I want that connection w my H. Mostly we seem to have it but then we hit that wall where he just... can't listen.

There are spots on the walls where I have hit them with small kitchen objects. I am beginning to have more and angrier meltdowns. I see his eyes glaze over and his attention drift elsewhere just as i am telling him something crucial and I just can't take it any more.

But the good times are REALLY GOOD. Our compatibility is otherwise very high. He is incredibly kindhearted and generous and patient. Nobody is perfect so what i am working with is, WHy would I let this one "little" problem upset the whole apple cart?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

questar1 said:


> Nobody is perfect so what i am working with is, WHy would I let this one "little" problem upset the whole apple cart?


 I guess that all boils down to whether you can tolerate the deficiency or not.

I edited my other post to ask if the "mentor" is married?


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Did you tell your husband what you wrote here with no minimizing of your "mentor's" behavior?
> 
> Yes, you probably need to bluntly tell him who and exactly what happened and the context in which it happened in. If he shows no concern after that, then maybe he just doesn't care, and you are a convenience more than a need.
> You say the mentor fills a space unfilled by your husband, but does he also fill all of the spaces that your husband DOES fill? Nobody is a 100% complete package. You will ALWAYS find traits in someone else that you admire more than your husband, but he's your husband. If those traits were an issue than you probably shouldn't have married him.
> ...


I agree and if I were not married this would probably work out well for both of us, a quid pro quo, me getting knowledge in the field and him getting whatever. I don't traffic in that currency, being married. You are spot-on, I felt myself slipping down that slope and went emergency full-on no contact with my mentor. I was then surprised by how much I missed him and that is how I knew there was a much bigger problem. Not just him. Me. 

I would not "expose" him because I do not blame him, I think he picked up on signals from me which embarrasses me. Also I am new in town and in this field and have much, much more to lose if I "expose" him. All I want is to start over as a peon and learn without anyone going for a "special connection" as he called it. At the same time he was not wrong about calling it that. We definitely did connect in a special way that I crave. 

What do you do if your partner cannot provide for a need but someone outside the marriage can? that is my question. I know I would not survive an "open marriage," ugh. I guess what I want is for H to change so I get what I need. Or what are my options. SOme days I am in such an awful pit of sadness.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I guess that all boils down to whether you can tolerate the deficiency or not.
> 
> I edited my other post to ask if the "mentor" is married?


Now that is a good question. I have not confirmed one way or the other! BIZARRE!!! But I have enough of a hint that he MAY be married that I felt that was the last straw. Truth be told I do not trust the word of someone like him to give me straight facts on that matter so I am turning to other sources to find out. And I find that absolutely weird. Just too many gray or sketchy areas here for sure.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I was married to a doctor at one point. What I found is that their training and professional atmosphere teaches them that they are the only ones whose words matter. It's a form of arrogance that they are taught. Sure the things that you talk about contribute, but even without that medical school, internship and residency teaches doctors that they are special. I watched my then husband turn into someone very different as he went through medical school, residency and internship.
> 
> You husband really needs to learn that you are as important as he is and that he had better start listening to what you have to say if he wants you to stay with him. Does he realize that your relationship is at great risk?


This is very helpful and being in a family with lots of MD's I know how true these issues are. 

I have worked hard to persist in explicit conversations about the tremendous risk here and what has already gone haywire. He loses interest and does not inquire further. How ironic. That is why even though I am ready to "tell all," we never reach that point because he just tunes out. A shiny thing goes by or he remembers something he was more interested in.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I guess that all boils down to whether you can tolerate the deficiency or not.


Well, there you have it, my dilemma in a nutshell. How important is it really. Or am I allowed to fulfill my needs outside of the marriage and still feel okay. 

Meanwhile I jab kitchen scissors in the wall. After trying one more time to have a conversation in my own home.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I think.....

I think it is time for a fourth husband or a 'mere' ever-attentive lover.

I hope you are not staying for the lifestyle rewards.

We are here, walk the earth one time. 

Better to walk it loved, listened to and stroked.

Better to do this as a middle class lady than a wealthy class, sad Sadie.

This is the wrong format, the wrong forum to say, "Take on a lover". 

And frankly, it is not honorable nor necessary.

Live on your own, love on your own.
Your own terms.

Time is a-wastin'.
It really is.

He is retired, he is done learning.

It sounds like he does not care that other men find you attractive.
Could be, might be, he wants someone nice to take you off his hands.

Then, then he has no one to talk to him, take his mind where it does not want to be.

He is indifferent.
He is not worth it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

EA's are so easy because the path is so worn.

The trail is pressed down in little waves.
From little feminine feet dancing lightly to the end of the path.

The end of the path.

The beginning of hugs.
The beginning of praise.
The beginning of stolen kisses.

The beginning of the hazy, dazy fog.

A happy phase.

The end of the path is where and when you get caught.
Caught with a smile on your face.
Your fig leaf misplaced.

Yes, and no where to run.

It is happy while its lasts.
Lasting up until it ends.
Upends you alone.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

SunCMars said:


> EA's are so easy because the path is so worn.
> 
> The trail is pressed down in little waves.
> From little feminine feet dancing lightly to the end of the path.
> ...


Right, that is why I selfishly want merely the conversation w/ the other guy but not the hugs-n-kisses part that he seems to think goes with. 

Cake-eating is a well-worn path too. 

Stopping myself from doing that. 

A friend of mine has an open marriage only for her crushes, seems to work okay for her, her H just laughs about it. Would not work for me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

questar1 said:


> This is very helpful and being in a family with lots of MD's I know how true these issues are.
> 
> I have worked hard to persist in explicit conversations about the tremendous risk here and what has already gone haywire. He loses interest and does not inquire further. How ironic. That is why even though I am ready to "tell all," we never reach that point because he just tunes out. A shiny thing goes by or he remembers something he was more interested in.


Does he have anyone who he has conversations with: peers, extended family, friends? Anyone?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

questar1 said:


> Well, there you have it, my dilemma in a nutshell. How important is it really. Or am I allowed to fulfill my needs outside of the marriage and still feel okay.


I've heard it said that these days we depend too much on our spouse for what a community used to provide. 

Could you cultivate close friendships with other women or men who would not take it to the physical level?

Society, European society, used to have the concept of platonic (intimate and affectionate but not sexual) friendships between men and women. These were considered acceptable.

My take on it is that a friendship is not an EA if you do not put their other person ahead of your spouse and if it does not cross into the physical. It's as fine line and your current 'friendship' did cross the line with the attempted kiss. Though it could be dialed back if you both agree.




questar1 said:


> *Meanwhile I jab kitchen scissors in the wall*. After trying one more time to have a conversation in my own home.


I hope that is not literal


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

questar1 said:


> *So there is a great temptation to fall into the kind of EA that began so quickly and easily with my mentor. I really miss the "offender" and am chagrined that I let my boundaries slip so quickly. I suspect he picked up on my neediness. (And I think he is angry at me now, and I actually need to continue working with him at some point--awkward.)*


Sister... you are treading on a mighty slippery slope and even worse deep down you enjoy it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

questar1 said:


> My new mentor invited me to special work events, then 1-on-1 projects soon followed by deep conversations, then overt comments and emails from him about our "special connection," and then hugs and finally a demand for a kiss. I immediately put distance there (missing meetings, not answering intimate-sounding emails, and insisting on having him meet H), and I initiated conversations w H about all of this without identifying who. H seems uninterested in details or identification. The truth is that the "connection" with this mentor is or was quite real and filled a gap that persists with H. H struggles to engage in the kind of conversation I crave whereas my mentor and I share interests and have a similar background. I loved our conversations! I miss them and at the same time hate myself for that.
> 
> There are holes in my relationship with H that, after 12 years, I suspect may never be filled whereas occasionally I do meet someone like my mentor who fills that gap. Some days i feel desperate to get that satisfaction in meaningful conversation that creates a deep sense of feeling truly HEARD.
> 
> ...


To put it bluntly your mentor wants to **** you. If he cared about you he wouldn't make it about a physical quip pro quo. The fact you have gotten this far says you are in pretty bad shape. What kind of person are you? Do you need your husband to give a damn to make you stop falling for this pathetic stalker? Are you really this simple? Do you think this is the only time he has done this? Dudes a predator and it sounds like you lapped it up until it got to the point where he put his hands on you. You need your husband to care to make you see how bad this is. 

Besides this you should tell your husband who it is because you are supposed to be a team, do you expect this guy to still be your mentor after this? Maybe your husband expects that he married and adult who was going to honor her promises and he should have to worry that she won't because some ******* with a nice job is hitting on her. WOW isn't that novel. 

If you are unhappy in your marriage be and adult and divorce your husband.

Let me put it this way if your husband wasn't sexually satisfied would it be OK if he fooled around on the side, maybe no penetration but a kiss here and there some touching? Would you be cool with that? 

Again divorce him if you are that unhappy. I suspect a lot of this is not so much about conversation but the excitement of new conversation with someone who you respected because he was in a position of experience that you wanted. Your husband has no chance to compete with that no matter what he talks to you about. 

Nice.

Let me tell you one other thing, if my wife told me this story there would be no angst on my part. I would be looking real close to see how she behaved. I would have my lawyers number ready. Any kind of pining away for this pathetic player and I would be on the phone calling. Seriously that some trifling behavure of a teenager. Adults deal with there **** and talk and if they can't they walk. 

I see myself as a good husband, I am willing to work though problems in an adult way (meaning we talk about it and work as a team to solve it), but I can't satisfy all her needs and our marriage is never going to be perfect. If I married someone as immature as to think that that was what I am there for, or that it has to be perfect to have them not start looking around for better then we might as well call it off. Doesn't have to be a bunch of emotion, lets just come to a fair agreement and move on. I am not about to go begging and pleading with her not to go **** some ******* who probably picked her because she was one of the silly ladies in the office so immature as to for lines he uses on every other women.

"What we have is special, I admire you SO much, you are SO good at this. I can't help it I need a kiss." God-damn how dense do you have to be to fall for that kind of stuff. 

LIFE IS WAY TOO HARD AND WAY TO SHORT FOR THAT. Judging from your reaction to your husbands reaction we would not have made it.

So what happened in your other 2 marriages?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Yes EAs are very easy to get into especially when your needs are not being met. 

Right now there are 5 women at my church who have been flirty with me and like to talk with me, if I started messaging them I think I could turn one or more into something. 

All of them are divorced or feel they can't communicate with their H. 

My W has NO interest in sex with me so keeping a proper distance with these women does hurt, but these women also have children, families, husbands and their own happiness that I have to consider and I am not going to disrupt those relationships.

What I believe about the OM who wants to have a relationship with you is that he is a serial cheater and you are not the first or the last woman he has seduced. He is good at what he does and to him it is a game that he wants to win no matter what the cost is to you.

He is also not a good human being if he is doing this to your family and to his own.

He may have also told you stories about his life and how decent, heroic, victimized, well achieved, charitable or etc he is to create a sense of trust in you.

We all want to believe people like the stories he tells about himself exist, but often the image men like that create are fabrications made out of lies.

Tamat


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EA's are easy when you have poor boundaries and you make your needs more important then your honor. 

It's easy to be attracted to someone, and like conversation with them, even be charmed by them, sure. But it's also easy to keep it professional if you care about your spouse and yourself. 

Even if your needs are NOT being met which is a different thing entirely and you have a right to try to fix. You should never get your needs met at the expense of someone else, especially someone you say you love.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

questar1 said:


> This man is THE EXPERT (nationally) in the field that I had hoped to gravitate to following H's retirement and our move to a new area. This expert literally wrote the book on the subject. To learn from him would be a tremendous gift. He has offered to teach me just about everything but now things have gone too far in the wrong direction. He is known for his temper and negativity and now I am a little afraid of being on his bad side. But I should not second-guess what will happen now. All I know is that I will not be alone with him ever again. Yet I still want to learn from him.


I wonder if his "offer" will go away if you are never in a room alone with him again. I suspect it might. I dare you to google this guys name and #metoo. I bet you might get some hits, and if you don't I bet you will one day. 




questar1 said:


> This is very helpful and being in a family with lots of MD's I know how true these issues are.
> 
> I have worked hard to persist in *explicit conversations about the tremendous risk* here and what has already gone haywire. He loses interest and does not inquire further. How ironic. That is why even though I am ready to "tell all," we never reach that point because he just tunes out. A shiny thing goes by or he remembers something he was more interested in.


What does the bold part mean?

Maybe it's too painful for him? I mean maybe he doesn't see this like something that snuck up on you like you do. Maybe it's just not SO SHOCKING that some guy who you have been so involved with eventually asked you for a kiss. I wonder how much conversation was done talking about how great this guy was up until this point. Maybe he has always been of the opinion that this was were it was going. Maybe he is hurt that this is what it took for you to see this man's double motives. Maybe he already feels like you damaged your marriage by putting so much time and effort into another men who he could tell was playing you. 

It's hard to tell. 

Again what happened in your other 2 marriages? Did those guys supposedly suck at fulfilling your life too?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

questar1 said:


> Reading other threads about EA's reminded me that the first 6-10 years of our marriage were (as Princess Di put it) "crowded." With HIS ex GF's. He lived under the absolute impression that you should always remain friends w/ your exes, period. And basically he was having EA's with all of them. And because we lived apart (two houses, commuter marriage, 1 1/2 hrs' drive apart, saw each other on weekends), he went out to lunch weekly with one, one came by several times a year for overnights with or without her kids (she lived out of state), another particularly bitter one always came to our parties to trash me in front of everyone, etc., and he said "Well, I have known her longer than I have been with you, so I can't tell her to stop coming to my parties."
> 
> Eventually I convinced him that he was (1) confusing these women with his double message and (2) offending our marriage. One day he said "I think I will spend the next 10 years of our marriage apologizing for the first ten."
> 
> ...



I'm surprised this post hasn't been addressed, because to me it's very important. 

Your hb's poor boundaries with his ex gf's really nuked your marital bond and planted the seeds of mistrust. IME it's much easier to slip into something inappropriate when your bond with your spouse is damaged.

Women look for a protector that makes us feel safe, and one that sniffs around ex gf's, or just prioritizes them above his wife, doesn't make us feel safe. 

So we become open to someone who does. 

This is something I have experience with. It's difficult to come back from..... how did you guys deal with these EA's beyond him promising to make it up to you?

That's not enough.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@ questar1

You seem to be very self-aware and tuned into the situation. It sounds like you know the path to go down and that is a good thing. As far as his reaction to you telling him, maybe he trusts you implicitly to do the right thing, or maybe he holds you to the same low bar of poor boundaries that he has and doesn't see anything wrong with an EA. I'm glad you recognize it as wrong. I still would bluntly tell him exactly what happened, with who, and how. Otherwise, you are on the same low road he was on, just not as far along. If he doesn't seem to care, ask him WTF is wrong with him and why he doesn't care. That leaves no speculation as to his thought process and would make any decisions you have to make a lot easier on you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Tell him who it is, and that if it continues, it will lead to a physical affair.

Then see what happens.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm surprised this post hasn't been addressed, because to me it's very important.
> 
> Your hb's poor boundaries with his ex gf's really nuked your marital bond and planted the seeds of mistrust.


YES!!!

He admits he threw me under the bus repeatedly. For years. Consequently I lost a dangerous amount of weight (stress anorexia), became profoundly depressed and ended up getting PTSD treatment which seemed fairly successful. But you are right, it takes an effort not to slip into the memory of despair and abandonment from those awful experiences, and he has owned up to how devastating it must have been for me given that, at the time, he "did not know that it was not okay to do that." I suspect my sense of betrayal gives me a vibe of vulnerability which for sure some guys would pounce on. Especially those who do not necessarily fully respect marriage per se. 

OK, it seems pretty obvious that this is definitely a major issue for couple's counseling. I have tried unsuccessfully recently to get us back there but he has been going to the therapist individually for his own issues and my concerns seem, to him, to pale by comparison, and ignores my requests to get us both back in there. Well, I will insist, and in the presence of the counselor make this whole scene utterly transparent. 

I appreciate your drawing the connection between his past EA's, which literally made me sick to my stomach, and my misstep here. It helps to see it as a continuum in the context of the whole relationship. 

Thank you for helping me see this so that I can avoid falling victim to residual anger but rather stick to my vows and my principles. Which I think I have done by going no-contact right away with the EA. 

And honestly H will not hear me out, he tunes me out, I think it REQUIRES a therapist to grab his attention and say DO YOU HEAR WHAT SHE IS SAYING??? and to put the proper emphasis on the seriousness of this if he keeps just putting his fingers in his ears and saying la-la-la I can't hear you. He has in the past needed a third party to do exactly that. He is amazingly dense or something, in denial? I don't know how to explain. He boggles my mind. I remember one therapist almost yelling at him, "you did WHAT???" (H insisted on going on a date with an ex and one of my best friends, mutual friends with his ex, and when I said I'd be glad to go too he said "You're not invited, I will have to ask my ex if it's okay and you know she is really jealous of you." I kept saying, "But I'm your WIFE." When the therapist heard about this he freaked out and just looked at H like, What is wrong with you.)

Again, this current therapist said H is unusually "naive" and also "unusually resistant to hearing about things he doesn't already know about or believe." (This is why, no matter how much I expressed my dismay at his ongoing relationships with his ex-GF's, he refused to listen--he "knew" I was the one in the wrong so he tuned me out!) She validated that he really does not listen. Maybe it really does not occur to him that I would allow something so inappropriate to go on. And so he stops listening when I bring up the subject. I will have to tell him in front of her. He literally will not hear me out.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Questar,

Actually I wanted to address your Hs behavior during the first decade of your marriage but I thought that before fixing your broken leg we should remove the rattle snake with his fangs in you which is the OM.

Did your H ever come clean about his infidelities and keeping in contact with Ex'es is a horrible form of infidelity, did you ever have your H write out a timeline. 

Did your H take a polygraph to assure that you have the whole truth?

Did you ever tell the SOs of these ex'es that your H was in contact with them. 

Even if you are ok now with what went on, it's not ok that your H has continued to lie and minimize about what went on back then.

BTW, I suspect the OM chose you because you are a decent and married woman the kind men like that target, because they are unlikely to have STDs and the least likely to confess or cause trouble. They know how to get women emotionally addicted to them.

Tamat


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Is there an age difference? As already asked, what happened in your prior marriages? How did he avoid marriage for so long?

His GOD complex has damaged his ability to form stable relationships. He has ADD if not ADHD. Also, it sounds like he has had only superficial (not truly important to his life) past relationships. He is comfortable when there is no pressure to be authentic and deep. I think he DELIBERATELY avoids--CHECKS OUT-- true CONNECTION and intimacy because he sucks at emotions, sharing and compromise. However, this can be learned if he wishes to do so. You can only fix you and he has to be willing to be vulnerable enough to take some risks.

I find his statement about 'making up to you' as a blip of insight, but without conviction or empathy to follow-through.

You are wise to avoid the snake--a false 'savior' on the prowl. You don't want to be that person. 

I'm thinking you are feeling a desperation to fill this hole in your lives and he senses this especially in therapy and therefore sabotages the issue.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

TAMAT said:


> Questar,
> 
> Actually I wanted to address your Hs behavior during the first decade of your marriage but I thought that before fixing your broken leg we should remove the rattle snake with his fangs in you which is the OM.
> 
> ...


It took him all those years to believe that it was hurtful to a marriage (any marriage) to continue to fraternize intimately with exes because he said that in the Sixties everyone believed love was the answer to everything, blah blah blah. So you should stay friends. This was a firm philosophy with him. I told him that everyone else grew up and realized that these nice ideas did not lead necessarily to long-term happiness and it was time to grow up too. Fortunately at least two therapists agreed. But it was terribly hard for my poor H to shake this deep-seated belief. He felt guilty, he said, "abandoning" those women. Who by and large were co-dependent and promiscuous. (Two were openly alcoholic and prone to violent outbursts, another clinically diagnosed borderline [BPD], another had four children by four men and had abandoned her first child. She slept w/ my H while still married to someone else. I remember thinking "I wonder how I fit in that group of losers." Ya wonder.)

He now "gets it" and we are past that. 

But because bringing this issue up has reduced me to feeling kinda sick now I realize it's still painful to recall. 

The main problem was not those hanging-on "friendships" but his flat, adamant, often angry refusal to entertain my view at all. He defended those women and those friendships, and those conversations were the rare times he would yell at me and/or act threatening (he is a fairly peaceful, gentle person)--in other words he was unusually protective of these women and those relationships (he would repeat "they were in my life before you were"). And this problem of censure is what has persisted in our marriage. Besides losing weight (down to BMI of 17), I lost my voice and required physical therapy to restore a paralyzed throat muscle. I was told this is a common stress reaction when one feels powerless and "voiceless." PTSD treatment I believe saved my life, plus I could talk again :grin2: 

Although I am not nosy, I believe he has suspended all contact with all of these women and does not regret that decision. I honor him for reassessing his philosophies and choosing what was best for our marriage. I am doing my best to move on and let this go. I suppose we both ignored the fact that "old sins have long shadows." I am beginning to realize I am still bitter about this and need to work on letting go a little better. It does not help that he still does not listen when I bring up such matters and has actively refused to listen when I approach my own recent experience at wandering into an EA--"so easily." Ye gods. There are surely forces at work here. :crazy:

I don't even want a timeline, I want to forget his whole past.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

sunsetmist said:


> Is there an age difference? As already asked, what happened in your prior marriages? How did he avoid marriage for so long?
> 
> His GOD complex has damaged his ability to form stable relationships. He has ADD if not ADHD. Also, it sounds like he has had only superficial (not truly important to his life) past relationships. He is comfortable when there is no pressure to be authentic and deep. I think he DELIBERATELY avoids--CHECKS OUT-- true CONNECTION and intimacy because he sucks at emotions, sharing and compromise. However, this can be learned if he wishes to do so. You can only fix you and he has to be willing to be vulnerable enough to take some risks.
> 
> ...


This is actually interesting and even accurate armchair psychological insight that is worth pursuing. 

To answer your first question he is 70 and I am 58. The OM is 71. 

And now, since I have been asked several times-- here are Marriages 1 & 2:

1. grad school, we were very young, he was foreign, used me for his Green Card, had affairs. My mom begged me to move on so I did; he and I agreed on a very amicable $50 divorce after which he broke down in tears, got on his knees, and proposed. He spent the next few years apologizing and literally paying me back, sending occasional cash. I was invited to his wedding to a mutual friend and they both remain friends of the family. We all grew up, I guess. 

2. This is harder to talk about. Hard to know where to begin. H #2 had cancer when we fell in love and he remained ill, on and off, for the next 16 years during which we had 3 kids. Then I learned, the wife is the last to know, that all along he was not sick. He was rather a "high functioning opioid addict." He had robbed us blind. He had robbed and stolen from friends. He got therapy while I was pregnant with kid #3 and we wrote out a contract that if he backslid again he would tell me or the therapist and get rehabbed again. Of course the addict in him won out, he went back to painkillers then heroin, and when I found out I filed for divorce and I am going to say this very fast before I lose my nerve, He turned into a monster, he said, I get one kid, and what happened is called murder suicide and he survived and my youngest child did not and I do not wish to talk about this again, thanks. 
No one in my family talks about it. 
I have been in deep grief for several years, on top of the crap with my H's exes, and some days honestly it is more than I can handle. 
Well. That brings me to a realization.
The OM was the first person to find out in my group of acquaintances that i had lost a child and he was the only one by a long shot to say out loud, "I cannot imagine what that feels like; I am so sorry."
No one talks about it. Now I just don't tell people. And he was the first to say it out loud. 
I just realized, well, there's your in-road. 
Huh. 
Funny what talking about it can accomplish.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

This is a very sad story. It all makes some sense when you put together how husband ruined the marriage. I guess, sometimes you don't know what to do, until you find yourself and realize the possibilities you may have let pass by while supporting him. At some point, you have to die and arise as someone new, or you lose yourself completely. 

You have done counseling. You have worked through some infidelities. You desperately want this career to work out. You don't care if he is married, partly because those women who kept your husband from thinking of you and loving home ripped the hope from your heart. Partly because you believe him to be the best there is.

It is not surprising he is going after you. You would naturally make him feel like a man with subtle or intentional praise. Your eyes would tell the story your words do not. You posture when you are near him will give away the desire you have for him. If he is as intelligent as you make him out to be, he is quite aware of your feelings and knows he can manipulate and use you easily.

He probably is using you, yet there is a small part of you that feels ashamed, even though your husband does not care. That feeling is because you value yourself. You may even question if the career is really worth it. I imagine those thoughts, if they come, are quickly dealt with by the memories of the life you lived at home. Who can blame you?

You....

One thing comes to my mind. We can never be as good as our mentor. She/he cannot teach us all they know. You may only learn a little. If this guy uses you, you may not get the education you really need. When you are on your own, you may find yourself angry that you gave all for something less than you had hoped. I would caution you not to allow that sort of thing, so that you can find the freedom and continue the lifestyle you've come to know and need to feel fulfilled. 

I hope you can find a way past all of this. I also hope this post is my own fantasy and not related to your thoughts or goals. I just felt a need to post what was running through my mind. I don't accuse you of anything, nor look down on you in any way. I am concerned you may do that and all you work for won't be as sweet a victory as it could. 

Maybe think about divorce and then have a great life? I imagine that would be tough. Anyway, I hope I don't anger you with this post. It wasn't my intention.


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## Oceania (Jul 12, 2018)

TAMAT said:


> ... I thought that before fixing your broken leg we should remove the rattle snake with his fangs in you which is the OM.
> 
> Tamat


Damn... sorry inappropriate timing of post.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Your OM stooped to some serious predatorial lows. 
You said you did MC, have you done or are you doing IC. It might be very beneficial.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

CmonDionne said:


> Damn... sorry inappropriate timing of post.


Snakes are an ancient symbol of rebirth (immortality), healing, and sexual desire; wisdom, death, and renewal. 

(Is the poison sometimes the cure?) 

This is, after all, a useful symbol. In a Jungian way I guess. Anyways it helps while I slog through all these suddenly colliding factors as to how things ended up here. 

I can work with it, is all I mean, so it's okay. 

Time to shed a skin, maybe. :crying:


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> This is a very sad story. It all makes some sense when you put together how husband ruined the marriage. I guess, sometimes you don't know what to do, until you find yourself and realize the possibilities you may have let pass by while supporting him. At some point, you have to die and arise as someone new, or you lose yourself completely.
> 
> You have done counseling. You have worked through some infidelities. You desperately want this career to work out. You don't care if he is married, partly because those women who kept your husband from thinking of you and loving home ripped the hope from your heart. Partly because you believe him to be the best there is.
> 
> ...


I had no idea that by this time in my life I would be sitting on top of such a mountain of silent grief. So all I wanted was to "retire" to this new career choice and look what showed up! A conflict, just where I thought I would find a safe haven. I absolutely plan to continue in this field, because i think it will help me to heal in the sense of living with my scars. I am not going to let this event stop me. I will face it head-on and take it as the lesson the universe has apparently offered. I think now I know where it was coming from, and probably I needed it, and it does not have to be a threat either to my marriage or the intended career change. 

It will just be a test of what really matters to me as I think you just pointed out. Plus my guess is that if the stress and grief do not kill me, I will likely outlive all these characters. Now there's a goal....


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Your OM stooped to some serious predatorial lows.
> You said you did MC, have you done or are you doing IC. It might be very beneficial.


Having to resort to talking to a stranger for pay just reminds me that what I really want is for my partner to listen to me and be there for me.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

questar1 said:


> when I found out I filed for divorce and I am going to say this very fast before I lose my nerve, He turned into a monster, he said, I get one kid, and what happened is called murder suicide and he survived and my youngest child did not and I do not wish to talk about this again, thanks.
> No one in my family talks about it.
> I have been in deep grief for several years, on top of the crap with my H's exes, and some days honestly it is more than I can handle.
> Well. That brings me to a realization.
> ...


First, I want to thank you for sharing your pain. Sometimes strangers do have insight and we certainly have compassion and empathy. Maybe your risk will come back in a good way. H2 did not turn into a monster, he was one. Living with an addict is a hell of its own. In NO WAY was this tragedy your fault!! Should you wish to continue grief therapy or even help your family know how to support you, please do so. OM's touching response so resonated with your need. He touched you in a way others did not know how to.

You have been swimming upstream for a long time. Welcome (not) to my Steel Magnolia world--sorry you are having to endure a pain that will never go away, but will temper a bit. IC might help you parse out the anger inside you to the various sources. 

You are used to being successful through effort and life seems to be jumping up and slapping you in the face. I, too, can't imagine what you are feeling. I am so, so sorry.

Your husband will never have the skill that the correct, trained therapist will have. Look at what you have just accomplished by taking a risk.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

questar1 said:


> Having to resort to talking to a stranger for pay just reminds me that what I really want is for my partner to listen to me and be there for me.


 Understandable, but it doesn't appear that he will be there for you (That's more of that hopium), so you need to do what you can for yourself.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

questar1 said:


> Having to resort to talking to a stranger for pay just reminds me that what I really want is for my partner to listen to me and be there for me.


I am so sorry you are going through all of this @questar1 

Instead of considering Individual Counseling as "having to resort to talking to a stranger for pay", consider it as "loving myself enough to hire a trained professional to help me sort things out" or "valuing myself enough to give myself the opportunity to heal"

There is no shame in seeking counseling/therapy. It takes a very strong person to seek counseling/therapy.

With counseling, you can better resolve the issues you have with your husband. And it can help you heal.

You are a very strong woman to have survived what you have and still be able to function, go to work, work on your marriage, etc.

I commend you for coming here seeking feedback and help. We can offer you love, support, a sounding board, our individual perspectives, and boat loads of empathy, but we are not trained in psychology.

BTW, I'd be finding me a different mentor or do without one. I'd stay far away from this one!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"I have worked hard to persist in explicit conversations about the tremendous risk here and what has already gone haywire. He loses interest and does not inquire further. How ironic. That is why even though I am ready to "tell all," we never reach that point because he just tunes out. A shiny thing goes by or he remembers something he was more interested in."

I agree with Gus above -- have you TOLD him that if he doesn't listen, you will have an affair? maybe THAT will open his ears for a few minutes -- just shock him and see what he says.

" and he has owned up to how devastating it must have been for me given that, at the time, he "did not know that it was not okay to do that."
This REALLY makes me think he is Aspergers, or similiar. Sounds like he just doesn't understand normal societal conventions and just "mimics" once he learns what he is "supposed" to act like...

"H insisted on going on a date with an ex and one of my best friends, mutual friends with his ex, and when I said I'd be glad to go too he said "You're not invited, I will have to ask my ex if it's okay and you know she is really jealous of you." I kept saying, "But I'm your WIFE." When the therapist heard about this he freaked out and just looked at H like, What is wrong with you"

Yeah, he REALLY has NO CLUE what normal conventions are like -- was he surprised when the therapist called him on this??


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

It seems you cannot find a way to stay away from this “mentor”. You make the excuse about career advancement etc but all I hear is blah blah blah. It’s your responsibility to preserve your marriage vows, nobody else’s. You have already crossed the line with this guy and you continue to do so. If you are not happy with your husband then divorce him.

When you entertain behaviour that is disrespectful to your husband don’t be suprised when you lose respect for him. If you didn’t fancy the mentor then you would probably report him to HR. He is abusing his position and is not somebody you can trust. When he gets bored with fluffing you up he will move on to the next easy target.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Your husband sounds crappy.

That said, you ARE cheating, and you know you are cheating. What kind of character do YOU want to have? Are the kibble you get from this "irreplaceable mentor" worth your character?

At least be honest with yourself. This mentor is not mandatory to your success. You just want to keep talking with him.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

questar1 said:


> My new mentor invited me to special work events, then 1-on-1 projects soon followed by deep conversations, then overt comments and emails from him about our "special connection," and then hugs and finally a demand for a kiss. I immediately put distance there (missing meetings, not answering intimate-sounding emails, and insisting on having him meet H), and I initiated conversations w H about all of this without identifying who. H seems uninterested in details or identification. The truth is that the "connection" with this mentor is or was quite real and filled a gap that persists with H. H struggles to engage in the kind of conversation I crave whereas my mentor and I share interests and have a similar background. I loved our conversations! I miss them and at the same time hate myself for that.
> 
> There are holes in my relationship with H that, after 12 years, I suspect may never be filled whereas occasionally I do meet someone like my mentor who fills that gap. Some days i feel desperate to get that satisfaction in meaningful conversation that creates a deep sense of feeling truly HEARD.
> 
> ...


My God my heart goes out to you. Everything you say resonates with me and my experience with men over the last 30 years. Not the EA part, but the part of being in a relationship with someone and having them not meet your need for conversation, and seeing/meeting other men who seem to genuinely enjoy good conversation and that longing - that knowing that the way things are right now, you are not going to get that need met with the person you're with.

I recently divorced. For many reasons. But the conversation one was the one that broke my heart the most. I was just so UNFULFILLED. You describe it exactly as I experienced it - the need to feel heard and understood.

Sometimes I think men just don't like conversation and that's the way the world is, find a girlfriend to talk to. But I remember staying at a relatives house after their son graduated high school. We'd thrown a BBQ/Party for him that day and it was late evening and they were sitting on the couch talking quietly with their heads together when I walked into the room. I thought it was private so started to leave but they said "No come in, stay. Then the guy said they were just discussing the days events, how the party went, what they liked, what they might do differently next time, etc." 

I remember thinking THAT. THAT is what I want. 

I now have met a guy post divorce who seems perfect for me in every way and he really loves me and wants to shoot for the long run, but I just can't let go and dive in completely. In part because it's too soon. But the main thing holding me back is that while he's 100x better than my ex in that my ex seemed to literally withhold conversation from me almost like a passive aggressive thing to make me feel bad, this guy can and will have a decent conversation sometimes. But I often feel misunderstood when I say something or make a joke and if I try to clarify he seems to think I'm angry or something and gets agitated and keeps cutting me off saying "forget it" "don't worry about it." I know he will try to improve if I ask him, but can someone EVER start to enjoy "deep conversations" to make someone else happy if they don't naturally enjoy them?

MY ADVICE
You have told your husband what you want and need and asked him to read the book and told him you're not happy. But he can actually sit there and say "I already read that" to you with no intellectual curiosity of "what are you thinking/feeling." 

I would get his attention and say to him with a very serious very straight face:

*"We need to talk. YOU ARE LOSING ME. I am very unhappy. Things need to change or I will end up leaving you. If you want to stay with me you need to listen to what I am saying and process it and ask for clarification if you don't understand. If you choose not to do that, don't you dare say "I had no idea why didn't you tell me you were unhappy" when I file for divorce. Because I am telling you this is important to me and I will not live like this forever."
*

And then if he wants to talk you can let him know how serious this almost EA was and how it showed you how deeply unhappy and unfulfilled you feel with him. I would be prepared with some specific examples and requests that he can grab onto. Just like he needs sex, you need conversation. It is the most important thing to you in a relationship. Without it you have no reason to want to be with that person.

He may have ADD, and he may always have a tendency to space out. But if he showed an interest in you in general and seemed to enjoy talking to you, it would probably go from incredibly painful to just one of his little quirks when he spaced out from time to time.

PS they have phone apps for stimulating conversation. I had one called "Beyond Small Talk" that I used with my EX. At first he was surly and resentful but it gave lots of opportunities for him to talk about himself and he actually started to like it. I just found this article that reviews some others that sound pretty good. It's great when you go out for a drink and are just sitting there staring at each other. https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/3-apps-turn-sparkling-conversation-guru-iphone/


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jlg07 said:


> Honestly, your H sounds like he may be on the spectrum a little bit. Was he ever tested for that?


Many high achieving engineers, academics, and doctors are.

I was thinking exact same reading OP's description of her husband.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It is very easy to fall into an EA, especially if things are bad at home. 

Your "mentor" was *way* out of line. The mentor / mentee relationship like a teacher / student relationship needs to be kept completely free of any sort or romantic involvement because otherwise the closeness and power imbalance makes problems like this too likely.






questar1 said:


> My new mentor invited me to special work events, then 1-on-1 projects soon followed by deep conversations, then overt comments and emails from him about our "special connection," and then hugs and finally a demand for a kiss. I immediately put distance there (missing meetings, not answering intimate-sounding emails, and insisting on having him meet H), and I initiated conversations w H about all of this without identifying who. H seems uninterested in details or identification. The truth is that the "connection" with this mentor is or was quite real and filled a gap that persists with H. H struggles to engage in the kind of conversation I crave whereas my mentor and I share interests and have a similar background. I loved our conversations! I miss them and at the same time hate myself for that.
> 
> There are holes in my relationship with H that, after 12 years, I suspect may never be filled whereas occasionally I do meet someone like my mentor who fills that gap. Some days i feel desperate to get that satisfaction in meaningful conversation that creates a deep sense of feeling truly HEARD.
> 
> ...


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

WorkingWife said:


> I would get his attention and say to him with a very serious very straight face:
> 
> *"We need to talk. YOU ARE LOSING ME. I am very unhappy. Things need to change or I will end up leaving you. If you want to stay with me you need to listen to what I am saying and process it and ask for clarification if you don't understand. If you choose not to do that, don't you dare say "I had no idea why didn't you tell me you were unhappy" when I file for divorce. Because I am telling you this is important to me and I will not live like this forever."
> *


That is exactly what I did. 
Nobody got much sleep this weekend. 

I threw the works at him. I said what you wrote, above. I read the "slippery slope" section of "His Needs, Her Needs," out loud in bed, and then said, "...and there IS someone else." Then paused for effect. His sleepy eyes popped open wide: "What? Did you say there... IS ... someone else?" You could tell he was confused at this "addition" to the book's text. 

"I've been trying to tell you this for a long time but you....." And I described exactly what had happened and that I take responsibility for what ensued. (BTW he never asked WHO it was, which I found curious, and I did not tell him.)

Yeah, so, 48 hours of this. All weekend. All Saturday. All Saturday night. Ditto for Sunday. I refused to give up. 

The climax involved him running out of the room naked, screaming. I heard him sobbing in another room, so I just waited. When he returned I asked him what happened and he said, "I realized that the women that I hung onto after we got married were only the crazy ones. The normal ones just moved on in their lives and I have good memories. But I stuck with the nut jobs. What the h*** is wrong with me?" "Co-dependent?" I suggested. (Note: Doctors often are.)

This was a new insight. Only the truly unhealthy relationships kept interfering with our marriage. Other women in his life had moved on in a normal fashion and he simply has good memories of them now. (One of his other exes was the judge who married us. A smart, normal, nice, healthy woman with no need to stay in his life beyond wishing us well.) The upshot being that the ones who he hung onto were the very relationships most likely to jeopardize any future relationship. And he let them. That realization freaked him out. "I just saw how stupid I was!" 

The second realization was that just apologizing and telling me to "get over it and move on" (now that he has deleted these women from his phone/life and has had no contact since last year) is not sufficient. I explained that until he expressed empathy for how I experienced this phase of our marriage, it was certainly not "over" for me. You can't just sweep it under the rug. I'm still in shock about what happened. Being told i wasn't invited. Or was not permitted to express my feelings about these "special" women. To mind my own business. Etc. Yuck. 

The same is true for the violent loss of my child. I, and everyone else, just pretend that everything is okay. It never will be. This makes me vulnerable to kindness from inappropriate strangers, I suspect. I need grief therapy. (That never occurred to me before, so thanks for that suggestion.) 

Anyway, 48 hours of amazing discussion. I have an appt with the counselor he has been seeing and that we saw together. H said that the sessions seemed worthless without me there and if this is about our marriage, then we should both be there. 

I refused to let him sleep till I was certain we had covered all the bases I have heard about here. Including 'fessing up about my recent indiscretion. Thank you, Dr Harley. Wow. That truly is a very slippery slope. I am no different from anyone else. I am so grateful to the way he explains that easy trap. I think it is also significant that Dr H does not condemn anyone for sliding down that all too common slope, and just getting reprimanded on this forum is probably not helpful to people like me who are looking for a way to do the right thing once they realize what they have slipped into. 

PLease know that I have however said exactly this same thing to H before. "A need is a NEED, not a want, and will find a way to get filled..." Somehow he just tuned me out. He admits he does that. He still claims (48 hrs of talk later) that he lacks the "skills" to listen to me adequately. I said, Well, you know the cost of believing that, I have needs and so do you and there are consequences, so, your choice.

It took 48 hours because of his inability to stick with the conversation and tendency to run away. I saw it all. But I didn't quit. It is true, I can't go on in life like this. Literally. It will not work. 

And I did go full no-contact as soon as I saw which way the wind was blowing with the OM. That slope is so slippery, you might not see it at step one or two. I think what helps is minding the gates with your well-informed spouse alongside. If you are doing it alone, maybe that is in itself the problem. That you feel alone. It takes two to stay married.

Well, we shall see.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Wow, good on you q1, you have made it as clear as anyone I have ever seen on here.

People like your OM hang out by the slippery slope hoping to give a needy unsuspecting woman a gentile tug to redirect her down the slope with him.

Many men know if you get in her head she will seduce herself, and the bond will purchase fast.

I think you have shown good character in this, and I really wish you and your husband well.



questar1 said:


> That is exactly what I did.
> Nobody got much sleep this weekend.
> 
> I threw the works at him. I said what you wrote, above. I read the "slippery slope" section of "His Needs, Her Needs," out loud in bed, and then said, "...and there IS someone else." Then paused for effect. His sleepy eyes popped open wide: "What? Did you say there... IS ... someone else?" You could tell he was confused at this "addition" to the book's text.
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

That is great questar1. You really did make progress with him. That took courage. Good on you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

questar1 said:


> My new mentor invited me to special work events, then 1-on-1 projects soon followed by deep conversations, then overt comments and emails from him about our "special connection," and then hugs and finally a demand for a kiss. I immediately put distance there (missing meetings, not answering intimate-sounding emails, and insisting on having him meet H), and I initiated conversations w H about all of this without identifying who. H seems uninterested in details or identification. The truth is that the "connection" with this mentor is or was quite real and filled a gap that persists with H. H struggles to engage in the kind of conversation I crave whereas my mentor and I share interests and have a similar background. I loved our conversations! I miss them and at the same time hate myself for that.
> 
> There are holes in my relationship with H that, after 12 years, I suspect may never be filled whereas occasionally I do meet someone like my mentor who fills that gap. Some days i feel desperate to get that satisfaction in meaningful conversation that creates a deep sense of feeling truly HEARD.
> 
> ...


*Always remember: Committing an EA is rather easy ~ committing a PA is even easier!

Beware! *


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

questar1 said:


> Yeah, so, 48 hours of this. All weekend. All Saturday. All Saturday night. Ditto for Sunday. I refused to give up.
> 
> Anyway, 48 hours of amazing discussion. I have an appt with the counselor he has been seeing and that we saw together. H said that the sessions seemed worthless without me there and if this is about our marriage, then we should both be there.


I'm so happy for you. No matter what happens from here with your marriage, you are taking control of your life and you are going to see that your needs also get met. 



questar1 said:


> I think it is also significant that Dr H does not condemn anyone for sliding down that all too common slope, and just getting reprimanded on this forum is probably not helpful to people like me who are looking for a way to do the right thing once they realize what they have slipped into.


Yeah! I saw people jumping all over you and I haven't been on here for awhile but I didn't get how that was supposed to be helpful -- you were already saying you knew it was an EA and you put a stop to it but you were just explaining that you realized you were so vulnerable to the seductive nature of it in part because your husband wouldn't listen to you, and looking for help. 

While it's true, technically, that there is no excuse for an EA or PA, human beings are still human beings and there is a reason good, moral people get sucked into them. In your case I think it was a blessing because your reaction made you realize how serious your husband's neglect of you was and you did something about it.



questar1 said:


> He still claims (48 hrs of talk later) that he lacks the "skills" to listen to me adequately. I said, Well, you know the cost of believing that, I have needs and so do you and there are consequences, so, your choice.


I think this is a brilliant and perfect response. If your husband truly is incapable of listening adequately, then it is what it is, but you have needs and the consequences are what they are. Understanding he may be ADHD or truly limited in this area may give you understanding and empathy for him, but ultimately he's either going to get the job done or he isn't.

And let's be honest -- after 48 hours in which he had to leave many times -- it's pretty obvious you're willing to work with him. I suspect you just want to feel loved and understood. I doubt you want to sit there and talk non stop for hours every day then quiz him. You just need him to give a damn about you and your feelings. 

For example, I suspect that him spacing out while you're talking to him would be a lot less hurtful to you if he ALSO initiated conversations where he asked your opinion on things and paid attention to your answers and even asked follow up questions, than if he never initiated conversations and only seemed distracted and impatient when you did. 

PS, I've been away from this forum for almost a year. I am not familiar with your story. You mentioned "the violent loss of your child," wow, I'm so sorry to hear that, it's really sad. My condolences.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

questar1 said:


> And I described exactly what had happened and that I take responsibility for what ensued. (BTW he never asked WHO it was, which I found curious, and I did not tell him.)


 Sounds like you may have broken through to him. You did great, with the exception of the above snip. You are not being transparent about this, even if he didn't ask. I might even venture to say you aren't telling hubby to possibly leave the door open for future "mentoring" or more from the OM. I really think he should be told who the threat to his marriage was or is. It will also reinforce your decision and put guards in place in case you do slip up. Just my 2 cents.

RC


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I really think he should be told who the threat to his marriage was or is. It will also reinforce your decision and put guards in place in case you do slip up. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> RC


So noted. 

We head off to MC next week and I have my notes from this whole discussion. I have included that I need to ask about grief therapy (a new thought for me). 

I admit I am afraid to 'fess up to the "WHO" and am grateful H did not inquire. In my heart I know we both need to know OM's identity but the truth is that H's prevailing naivety makes it questionable how he would use this info without guidance from MC, so, I will only disclose while there. I mean, H is a guy who thought it was super cool to keep letting exes spend the night, go to lunch, email chat, etc, and declared I was the nutjob for feeling like it was all just classic EA going on. He is seriously clueless, let's be honest. :nerd: Yes, he wears knee socks with sandals and tucks his t-shirt into his knee-knockers. So often he just misses what is obvious to others, socially.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

WorkingWife said:


> I'm so happy for you. No matter what happens from here with your marriage, you are taking control of your life and you are going to see that your needs also get met.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just wanted to thank you for this. I am able to shrug off inappropriate critique and find the stuff I need here, which is often incredibly wise. No, it doesn't help to yell at someone asking for help. And the truth about EA's is so often it goes way too far before we realize what's going on or that it should have/could have stopped much sooner. 

I owe my perception to having turned to this forum for assistance over the years. I would have been an utter idiot about this otherwise. And now I see (as per my thread title) how frighteningly easy one can slip into an EA even armed with knowledge. It is very humbling how suddenly you have to work, really work, not to mess up your marriage no matter what the excuse. 

H and I have tried MC over the years and much of it has been horribly off the mark. Because he is a dr they let him slide. "He must be smart," etc. No. Smart does not mean clued in about relationships. 

One of the harsher responses here challenged me to describe my previous 2 marriages as if to prove I'm the guilty party. One was a "green-card marriage" (although I was madly in love, he just wanted citizenship). The second was to a high-functioning opioid addict (and probably borderline, i.e., BPD) who flipped out (into psychosis) when I left him and had no compunctions literally sacrificing our youngest child and attempting suicide (with a hunting knife) in his angry quest for "love." And revenge. 

Getting yelled at when you ask for help is kinda similar to my complaint about H--just not being heard. LIstening to someone is the greatest gift and IMHO it is the only true source of healing. 

So, off we go to MC. Fingers crossed!


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Questar1

The OM needs to be exposed widely by the way. He is not fit to be a "MENTOR", he need to be shamed and disgraced.

Someone who poses as benevolent advocate for the advancement and well being of others is doubly accountable. They have been given a position of responsibility and trust and they betrayed it. 

This is a bit of a "me too" issue as well, the OM is using whatever status in whatever area of life/work/etc he was advising you on and used that to get his foot in the door to seduce you. He is similar to Bad Priests, Bad Boy Scott Leaders, Bad Coaches and similar folks who slowly work their way into their victims and become expert at covering their tracks.

Tamat


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

questar1 said:


> Just wanted to thank you for this. I am able to shrug off inappropriate critique and find the stuff I need here, which is often incredibly wise. No, it doesn't help to yell at someone asking for help. And the truth about EA's is so often it goes way too far before we realize what's going on or that it should have/could have stopped much sooner.
> 
> I owe my perception to having turned to this forum for assistance over the years. I would have been an utter idiot about this otherwise. And now I see (as per my thread title) how frighteningly easy one can slip into an EA even armed with knowledge. It is very humbling how suddenly you have to work, really work, not to mess up your marriage no matter what the excuse.
> 
> ...


Since this is directed to me I will respond. I just don't believe you. * I don't think it is all that easy to fall into an EA if you have good boundaries. I think a big part of your problem is you think you have good ones but you don't.* I think you should admit to yourself that you knew what you were doing and you enjoyed the attention at least a little bit. I say that because next time it may not be so "easy" or you might not even want to stop. Even if I am wrong I suspect that there were signs and you didn't see them. Again you need to figure out why. It's not good. 

*In this whole thing you pretty much have put all the responsibility on your husband and how your marriage was not good enough to prevent this from happening. * I think that is wrong the wrong take and not going to help you much in the long run. Yes the marriage thing is a problem and you should address it but one doesn't have to do with the other. This is because there are always going to be attractive people and you have a potential to get too close to in an inappropriate way. Here is the thing, even if your marriage is perfect it can still happen. If you read about this stuff you find people in great marriages have it happen, people (especially women) who are straight have it happen with other women. Lots of them are shocked when the realize how far they have gone, sort of like you, but they don't have the excuse of having an inattentive spouse. Why? Because it's nice and fun, it feels good. This is why seeing this as a result of a problem in your marriage is not really addressing the problem. It's a problem with your boundaries. There should be emotional parts of yourself that you just don't share with anyone else but yours spouse. That includes allowing this kind of emotional bonding and emotional joy (I can't explain it but we all know what it is when we are feeling it. It's the beginning of a romantic relationship and often called Limerence on these boards). You must not allowing THAT to come from any relationship besides your spouse. If you start to feel it you must control it. Again even if it feels good. You need to always be mindful of how you are feeling. Then there isn't a chance of it happening. 

I also think your history with men especially the type of men you choose to associate your emotional life contributes to this stuff and you should examine that. Sounds like you have married 2 men who in one way or another were dysfunctional and that led to dysfunctional relationships. Your husband now seems to be emotionally detached with you, and you almost hooked up with a forth man who is quite obviously a predator. There is a reason for this and you should try to figure it out. This would be why I kept bringing it up. *It leads me to think you don't get a good read on the men you are with.* That is not a criticism it's an observation. How about other men in your life like family members? Did you have a good male role model when you were young? This seems to also be a contributing factor to this happening. You should at least think about that. 

It's interesting to me that this mentor of yours is very clearly a predator in my mind and probably a lot of others and yet here he is disrespecting your husband, your marriage and in the end you, and you were still prepared to hang around in the periphery with him after the fact. Why? That doesn't seem right to me. Why are you not outraged at how he treated you? Why are you not outraged at how he disrespected your husband? Why are you not defending your husband? Instead you are blaming your husband? Why, because your husband didn't want to know who it was? I mean I get that there is something up with your husband and his seemingly detachment from your marriage, but that is a different matter. I know for me I would want and expect my wife to defend me and be pissed as hell if someone tried to hurt me through her. At the very least the disrespect would cause me to go in to defensive mode. You seem almost flattered in a way? Not the response I would expect, again if your boundaries were right. *This is your husband's wife we are talking about right, the guy was trying destroy your husband's marriage and life? Yet you were prepared and still may be to use him as a mentor to advance your career. In my mind that is disrespectful to your husband, your marriage and yourself. Again it's speaks to boundaries. *

You are only seeing this as a man hitting on you, but it's also a man trying to steal your husband's wife, destroy his marriage and in the process his life. As his wife you should want to defend him. This is something that I see is very common with people who cheat or who almost cheat, people who have poor boundaries. They are not bonded enough to see their spouse as an extension of themselves. So they don't defend their spouse from the worst of their nature. They see their spouse as someone who is there to give them something, make them feel a certain way. But you are supposed to be a team, your marriage is something that belongs to both of you. You need to defend it for him, and he should do the same for you. I think having that kind of mindset stops a lot of this stuff before it begins, because the mindset is I am a protector of my husband. Not my marriage is about me and who I married and how that makes me feel (and right now I am not feeling all that great). Again this has it's limits and if your marriage is bad by all means try to fix it and if you can't them end the relationship and the responsibility. But you should do it in that order, as long as you are married you have a responsibility to hold to you vows and protect him, even from yourself. 

Finally I am not discounting that something is up with your relationship with your husband. His reaction seems very strange, it may be that he is on the spectrum. It may also be from his guilt because of his history with you. It may be because he just trusts you. I get how disappointing this must be. You have a right to expect better. You both need to deal with this and sure up your marriage, but again, to me, this is a different problem that contributes to a this other problem. But the two things are still different. 

Look I don't care if you like me or think I am an *******, but you should at least really think about what I am saying here before you dismiss it because it's difficult. I get it it's a whole lot easier to think, I almost ****ed up but it's my husband's or marriage's fault. As opposed to I almost ****ed up and it's entirely my fault. But the second one is the truth. You can only control you. *We always have a saying here, if a person cheats, both people contribute to the problems in the marriage but the cheating is entirely on the cheater. I don't see why, just because you stopped your EA before it got too far, somehow the cheating is on your husband. The rule is still the same even if the inappropriateness was minimal, this is on you.* If all you get from this whole thing is your husband needs to pay more attention to you to make sure you don't fall into an EA then you are not learning the lesson and there is still a chance you could blow up your life one day. At least read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. I suspect there will be some things in there that will ring true with this situation. 

Marriages (really fidelity) shouldn't be dependent on everything being healthy in the relationship, though unfortunately many do. There are just too many times where life comes and they get sick. 

I will give you this, at least you didn't get to the PA stage.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

questar1 said:


> My new mentor invited me to special work events, then 1-on-1 projects soon followed by deep conversations, then overt comments and emails from him about our "special connection," and then hugs and finally a demand for a kiss


I just went ahead and deleted everything else because we need to eliminate all this nonsense about conversation, connection etc etc.

This man wants to have sex with you.

or

At least do something physical.

All this talk, chats, connections, invitations to events are all done expressly because he wants to pursue a relationship with you.

So this is not an EA..well maybe it is from your side but definitely not from his side.

As to your part in not admitting who the person is. Just wrong. Do not assume for your husband. He's a grown man, tell him the truth then work it out like adults.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

When you say your ex-opioid husband literally sacrificed your child, do you mean he actually killed the child?!!!!!


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

thummper said:


> When you say your ex-opioid husband literally sacrificed your child, do you mean he actually killed the child?!!!!!


Read questar1 #35 for answers. She doesn't want to discuss further.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Since this is directed to me I will respond....
> 
> *In this whole thing you pretty much have put all the responsibility on your husband and how your marriage was not good enough to prevent this from happening. *


For what it's worth - I did not get that out of her post at all. She seemed to be taking full responsibility and asking for help. The fact that she is unhappy in her marriage makes her vulnerable to an EA or even a PA. That is simply a FACT. As is it a FACT that she has tried talking with her H with no success. And a FACT is that she knew it was becoming an EA and started sliding down that slippery slope anyhow because she did want the attention and it did feel good. 

The point I got from all this is not that "it's her husband's fault" she started an EA, but that she KNOWS better from being on this forum, and is morally opposed to any kind of infidelity, and yet she was getting sucked in. The moral of the story being, she now understands she has three choices: 
1. She MUST find a way to get her needs met by her H, or 
2. She needs to end the marriage, or
3. She will become a person she does not want to be.

And it's a warning to all of us who think our morals will prevent us from having an EA or PA. Everyone who is human is vulnerable. Yes, boundaries can prevent the EA or PA from happening, but just avoiding an EA or PA won't make you a happy person if you are married to someone who does not meet your needs.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> For what it's worth - I did not get that out of her post at all. She seemed to be taking full responsibility and asking for help. The fact that she is unhappy in her marriage makes her vulnerable to an EA or even a PA. That is simply a FACT. As is it a FACT that she has tried talking with her H with no success. And a FACT is that she knew it was becoming an EA and started sliding down that slippery slope anyhow because she did want the attention and it did feel good.
> 
> The point I got from all this is not that "it's her husband's fault" she started an EA, but that she KNOWS better from being on this forum, and is morally opposed to any kind of infidelity, and yet she was getting sucked in. The moral of the story being, she now understands she has three choices:
> 1. She MUST find a way to get her needs met by her H, or
> ...


This may be true but it's hard to argue that when the title of the thread is "EA is so easy." And the fact that until all of us took her to task she was willing to keep this man as a mentor despite his blatant disrespect to her husband and marriage? Her take being it's good for my career. I see it like I see it. It's good that she is addressing it but she need to get that some of this is on her.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

sokillme said:


> This may be true but it's hard to argue that when the title of the thread is "EA is so easy." And the fact that until all of us took her to task she was willing to keep this man as a mentor despite his blatant disrespect to her husband and marriage? Her take being it's good for my career. I see it like I see it. It's good that she is addressing it but she need to get that some of this is on her.


The title "EA is so easy" is her saying - "wow, I see how this happens even when you know better."
Everything I've read that she's said indicates she knows it is on her. She knew it was wrong to keep him as a mentor, she says that. I think she's just explaining "the pull" of her career and having someone to talk to when she's so frustrated in her marriage. 

I'm not saying people shouldn't continue to point out where she's going astray to help keep her honest. I just remember reading some comments that seemed harsh but also completely unnecessary since they were reiterating back to her what she had already acknowledged.

I also think the "this guy is a predator" line of reasoning is not necessarily helpful. Human beings are complex. This man may very well be some predator who runs around looking for vulnerable females to flatter. But he also could be a normally decent man who'se never done this before and is in his own situation where his needs are not being met and the pull of being thrown together with her was overwhelming to him. That doesn't make it ok or make him less guilty. But I think it can make the situation harder to avoid if his feelings are genuine and he did not see them coming. 

Being in a position of authority doesn't make one immune from human emotions and attraction. A LOT of women marry their coworkers and bosses...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> I am able to shrug off inappropriate critique and find the stuff I need here


Translation: I will ignore anyone who points out the reality of my choice to have and defend an EA


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> The title "EA is so easy" is her saying - "wow, I see how this happens even when you know better."
> Everything I've read that she's said indicates she knows it is on her. She knew it was wrong to keep him as a mentor, she says that. I think she's just explaining "the pull" of her career and having someone to talk to when she's so frustrated in her marriage.
> 
> I'm not saying people shouldn't continue to point out where she's going astray to help keep her honest. I just remember reading some comments that seemed harsh but also completely unnecessary since they were reiterating back to her what she had already acknowledged.
> ...


Being in a position of authority means you have more responsibility to not act on your feelings. Besides that he is asking for kisses as rewards and stuff. Dude's a predator.


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## rv10flyer (Apr 26, 2018)

The OM is 71 years old, not 21. He is definitely a predator. He knows what he is doing, how to look for vulnerabilities and has planned it all from the moment he first met her. Our world is full of men like him, that use their position of power and authority over women to get their lustful desires met. Finally, women are speaking out against the sexual harassment and abuse that has been going on for years. I will embarrass and call out any man in my community practicing this kind of behavior. Women cannot solve this problem on their own. It is time for the honorable men with integrity to do something. The OP’s husband needs to know, as well as the OM’s wife and any organizations or businesses that the OM is associated with.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Being in a position of authority means you have more responsibility to not act on your feelings. Besides that he is asking for kisses as rewards and stuff. Dude's a predator.


I forgot about the "asking for kisses as rewards." :surprise:

I agree he has more responsibility and is definitely preying on her, and abusing his position of authority. My point is that his affection for her may be 100% genuine and this may be the only time he's behaved inappropriately toward a woman like this. If that's the case, he's not a predator in his own mind just trying to score with the next vulnerable chick who happens along, he's genuinely in love and thinks this is some special once in a lifetime connection. If he's typically "not the type" his sincerity may be exceptionally disarming to her.

Staying the hell away from him is the only safe option and will give more perspective over time.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> I forgot about the "asking for kisses as rewards." :surprise:
> 
> I agree he has more responsibility and is definitely preying on her, and abusing his position of authority. My point is that his affection for her may be 100% genuine and this may be the only time he's behaved inappropriately toward a woman like this. If that's the case, he's not a predator in his own mind just trying to score with the next vulnerable chick who happens along, he's genuinely in love and thinks this is some special once in a lifetime connection. If he's typically "not the type" his sincerity may be exceptionally disarming to her.
> 
> Staying the hell away from him is the only safe option and will give more perspective over time.


I don't doubt for a minute this guy is a predator in this case. However, I DO think people in close proximity can develop feelings of attraction for one another but that is really all they are feelings. People need to learn that you don't have to act on feelings. This is really the difference of being an adult or a child. It still holds true when it's lust. 

In this scenario she is married. He has a responsibility as a decent person to again not act on his feelings. I never got the idea that well he didn't make the promise so he doesn't have to be respectful of it. That's like saying I didn't buy that rug in your house so I can crap on it if I want. If that is going to be the case then I feel like I have the right to go punch you in the mouth.

Now imagine if everything worked like that.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

sokillme said:


> ...In this scenario she is married. He has a responsibility as a decent person to again not act on his feelings. I never got the idea that well he didn't make the promise so he doesn't have to be respectful of it...


Also, if he *really *cares about her, he will not pressure her to act against her own promises and morals and best interests.


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