# When does a spouse cross the cheat line?



## Mike80 (Aug 8, 2017)

These are a few questionable behaviors that my wife has done. Although she denies that anything has happened and that her bahavior was acceptable in most cases, i dont see it that way, and that she has crossed the cheat line in my view. 

Situations will always happen in a marriage that couples must deal with. Now in good marriages open dialogue about outside influences quickly diffuses these situations and strenghtens the marriage. Without dialogue the dangers of outside influence increase dramatically and begin to change your view of your spouse and trust. 

Here are some key situations in my marriage that have dissolved trust for my wife, she maintains they were all innocent enough and that she didn't really cheat, claiming I'm overreacting about it by insisting on some dialogue.

- Before we were married she(single) had an affair with a married man, she claimed at the time she didn't know he was married and when she found out he had a wife broke it off. We met and married 3 years later. About 2 years in, I found out she has been stopping in at his work. I mention I'm not comfortable with this friendship and that the fact that he is married he doesn't respect his own marriage and more than likely anyone else's marriage.
She agrees and says she won't be talking to him anymore. Within the following year, I found out she is at his work again. This time she maintains she was in the area and needed some boxes. Now in my opinion she has crossed the cheat line twice already. Keep in mind both these visits were not mentioned to me until i found out. 3rd visit, she has a slow leak in a tire and stops in his shop to get it repaired. She mentions this visit to me and says that she was worried about the tire and that she didn't have many options (several repair shops in the area). Again I repeat in an non aggressive manner that i dont think this is healthy to our relationship and she responds that at least she told me about it. So I leave it alone, and thank her for the open dialogue about it. About 3 years later I find some texts in her phone showing that they are keeping in touch, some flirty messages but nothing explicit. I approach her about it and she maintains they are just friends and that he's fun to talk to. I respond that this man is having serious implications to our marriage and mention that this completly inappropriate behavior. (Cheat line count 3) A few months later I find more texts except now they now are under a secret name and are more explicit in nature. Although in the texts that I read she didn't reciprocate his obvious advances of sex anytime she wanted but admited she liked the attention and still maintained nothing physical happened. (Cheat count 4) I had enough and we separate for about 10 months. We reconcile agreeing that it wasn't appropriate behavior on her part although I am convinced she had a full blown affair lasting possibly years, she never admits to this.


- A few years later while helping a friend in his shop, after a few beers he confesses that my wife had made a pass at him. I asked him to explain and this is what he said. While purchasing his house he met my wife for the 1st time. We later found out he was a old children friend of mine, but while making the deal she made several visits for signatures etc, not uncommon in her line of work. At the end of the deal he said that she asked him if he knew the area( rural location) and the quarry nearby had a great swimming hole. She called him a few days later and asked if he wanted to go but that they needed an atv to get to it. He said sure come over and we can go. At this point he admited that he felt she was making a move on him and since he didn't know me yet that he didn't see anything wrong with going swimming with a lonely married woman as he saw it but maintained that nothing happened. (Cheat line 5) She never mentioned this happened until much later and tried to keep it secret until she had no choice (Cheat line 6). Meanwhile i rekindle my old childhood friendship not knowing that this had happened and while admitting this to me says that he felt bad because we had become good friends. 
A few years later I was to find out that this did indeed happen but the timeline was not correct. She did admit while having a heart to heart conversation that she did call him up to go swimming and that nothing happened but said it had happened a couple years after I rekindled my friendship with him. Nice friend, what a dog. They both kept this secret for over 2 years.


- More recently, I secured some good paying work which requires me to travel a lot. While building a new house for a rental, I employed our neighbor to help out while I was away. We have gotten to know him well over the years and i frequently stop by his place for beers in the summer, he is a lifelong bachelor and a fun type of personality. 
One day I return from a 10 day work trip and she says that she was bored and stopped in the neighbors one evening for a couple drinks (wife rarely drinks or goes to this neighbors house) she mentioned that his cousin was also there and didnt see any harm in it. Thanked her for being honest and didn't think much of it. About a couple weeks later after another road trip i stop in for a beer and visit. After a few beers he mentions that my wife has been stopping by frequently, He mentions that about half the visits have been about the construction of the house i have him employed at but the other half have been later in the evenings for a couple drinks. (Cheat line 7) He went on further to say the 1st time she came by was in the evening before she said she had hung out there with his cousin, she mentioned this to me but not the previous night or any other evenings she was there. He went on saying she showed up about 9 in the evening with a drink in hand and had on a one piece pijama outfit with the front zipped down with a very provocative view. To quote his words " her big round tits were just hanging out". I know this has some truth because He described her only one piece pijama she owns which I'm sure he has never seen before. He went on to mention she had stopped in a few more times in the evening while I was out of town for drinks and that on another occasion she had the skimpiest low cut shirt on without a bra that he could see her breasts quite clearly through the shirt, all the while she is complaining about her marriage. He went on to give her the benefit of the doubt by saying maybe it's just her summer wear, but did say he thinks she was hitting on him.

Their have been a few more incidents but not really worth mentioning, just suspicious from my point of view.

To this day she maintains that she has never had a physical relationship with anyone, and this may be true as I have never been able to find absolute evidence. But nonetheless crossing the cheat line is still cheating in my opinion, she may be a serial cheater that likes to take it close to the edge of a physical affair and know that she could if she chooses to or that she is physical and that I haven't caught her yet. Anyhow she crossed the cheat line and when approached about it only admitted to what she was caught on. Not acceptable bahavior in my books.

- harmless flirting, need for attention , or intent to cheat? 

Thanks


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Most likely she's been cheating a while. Most cheater rarely or never admit to cheating. Why would they since the very nature of cheating is deceit. There would be only two reasons she would admit it. 1. the evidence is strongly present or 2. she just don't care if you do know it. I'm right on this dawg, do let anybody bull shyt you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

When do you decide that enough is enough? Make no mistake; this is an ongoing affair.

She crosses a line.

You call her on it.

She agrees not to cross it anymore.

She crosses the same line...

Lather, rinse, repeat.

She has a problem. She can't let this guy go.

You have a problem. You clearly don't love yourself enough to remove yourself from this situation.


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## Mike80 (Aug 8, 2017)

I don't agree Far side, I don't think "You" read the story correctly while pointing your finger. Lol


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*An intent to or the actual carrying out of an EA, or a PA with or even without the presence of deception, or coversion against the aggrieved partner = Cheating!*


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Red flags galore. Trickle truth (only when caught or thinks she may be) is a sure sign. Does she lock her cellphone and keep it close at hand? I bet if you examined her phone the truth would set you free from wondering all the what ifs.

Sounds like she has boundary issues, especially with married people (including herself). And she also might be BPD, they have a fear of abandonment and can open up to strangers at the first meeting. They also have numerous sex partners and engage in high risk sex without protection.


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## Volunteer86 (Aug 2, 2017)

Mike80 can I ask you how your sex life is with her?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Mike80 said:


> flirting, need for attention , or intent to cheat?
> 
> Thanks


All of the above...

You're welcome.


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## KevinZX (Jul 1, 2017)

Her behaviour is cheating, plain and simple, you either need to pay someone to get the proof, or just leave her if you feel you cannot trust her anymore, either way she is playing with you, why can't she just stop this behaviour, because she likes it, it is only a matter of time before she does turn an EA into an PA, if she hasn't already.

Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## Mike80 (Aug 8, 2017)

Majdeath, 

Very good insight, you hit it bang on. Very loose boundaries, like the cheat line only applies to others which is also another BPD symptom. Defiantly a fear of abandonment. Opens up to strangers at the drop of a hat. Very low self esteem but you would never know it, shows only extreme confidence. 
We are currently separated, I had had enough. She texts me everyday looking for excuses to meet but I politely say I'm busy or maybe some other time.


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## Mike80 (Aug 8, 2017)

Sex life has been very intense the last couple months while I was still living there. I believe she was projecting her guilt and using sex to calm my suspicions. I wasn't into it very much but she was very aggressive.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

You picked yourself a real winner.

First, she likely NEVER stopped that affair with her married Romeo. They were always involved in one way or another, and after continually finding evidence of it over and over and over, you got SMART and left her.

You're biggest mistake was going back to her after the 10 month separation.

I will say this. Your neighbor, the lifelong bachelor, has more integrity than I would have ever pegged him for having. He actually had the decency to NOT take the bait your wife continually threw at him, but he was kind enough to tell you the TRUTH of how she was hitting on him every chance she got. And the ONLY reason she didn't have sex with him is because HE wanted no part of her.

You need to make sure you understand that.

I'm truly impressed with this guy because most of the stories I read on these boards with single bachelor types having the opportunity to get some action DON'T usually end this way at *all*. Consider him a true friend.

Consider your wife an embarrassment who apparently doesn't know the meaning of loyalty.

Let me tell you something. If I were to sink to her level and put on some sleazy top with my boobs hanging out, keep showing up at my single guy neighbor's house to drink beer and talk *crap* about my husband and my lousy marriage, I would fully *EXPECT* my husband to kick my worthless ass out of the house and be at his lawyer's in the morning.

I have a sinking feeling you're going to be like some of the other guys who come here and *refuse* to see reality and instead want to keep their heads buried in the sand, making constant excuses for why they can't leave while their wives continually disrespect them over and over and over and over again.

ETA: I will happily retract that last statement above because you were posting when I was, so I didn't see that you're separated again.

You are very WISE. This time, I'd make it *permanent*.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Mike80 said:


> Sex life has been very intense the last couple months while I was still living there. I believe she was projecting her guilt and using sex to calm my suspicions. I wasn't into it very much but she was very aggressive.


Yeah.

No.

Guilt has nothing to do with it. She's the serial cheating type and guilt ain't part of the equation.

Sounds as though all her unspent passion for the boy toy next door was *your* gain for those couple of months.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Mike80 said:


> Sex life has been very intense the last couple months while I was still living there. I believe she was projecting her guilt and using sex to calm my suspicions. I wasn't into it very much but she was very aggressive.


*Been there, done that!

Or, much rather, had it done to me! Usually as "sloppy seconds," I later and most regretfully found out!*


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## Mike80 (Aug 8, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You picked yourself a real winner.
> 
> First, she likely NEVER stopped that affair with her married Romeo. They were always involved in one way or another, and after continually finding evidence of it over and over and over, you got SMART and left her.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply,

I've already left the relationship, and although she texts me everyday. I don't reciprocate, I will reply if it applies to divorce (in email only) but otherwise i keep the dialogue closed, that ship has sailed


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Mike80 said:


> Sex life has been very intense the last couple months while I was still living there. I believe she was projecting her guilt and using sex to calm my suspicions. I wasn't into it very much but she was very aggressive.


She was using sex to cloud your senses and draw you back in to believing her gaslighting stories. You didn't fall for it. Good on you. 

What's your next move?

edit: Just saw your post about D and NC. There aren't other good choices with someone like her.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Mike80 said:


> I don't agree Far side, I don't think "You" read the story correctly while pointing your finger. Lol


Which part did I get wrong?

The part that she has been finding reasons to put herself in front of this same man from her past (emotional affair)?

Or the part where it has taken this many instances of questionable behavior (with more than one man) to consider asking for outside verification that your thoughts on boundaries aren't that far off?

And lastly, what consequences has she experienced as a result of essentially blowing off what you have asked of her?


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Mike80 said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> 
> I've already left the relationship, and although she texts me everyday. I don't reciprocate, I will reply if it applies to divorce (in email only) but otherwise i keep the dialogue closed, that ship has sailed


I admire the way you handled this, but I must ask why did you post your question "When does a spouse cross the cheat line?" earlier today if you've already ended the relationship? Are you second guessing yourself?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

IMO, you W likes attention from men. Any men.


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

She definitely crossed some kind of line, and she crossed it multiple times. She hid all this stuff from you, until you found out about it. I agree with @She'sStillGotIt, it sounds like your friends are do right guys, that took a lot of guts for your neighbour to tell you that - he doesn't know that you wouldn't fly off the handle and blame him, but he told you anyway.


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## Mike80 (Aug 8, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Which part did I get wrong?
> 
> The part that she has been finding reasons to put herself in front of this same man from her past (emotional affair)?
> 
> ...


Well, the 1st man caused a seperation of 10 months before reconcile. I believe marriage should have one chance for reconciliation. The other 2 incidents basically sealed her fate for divorce, which is proceeding.

As far as me looking for online validation, I'm just having a weak day and looking to keep my thoughts clear and stay on my goal.


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## Mike80 (Aug 8, 2017)

vauxhall101 said:


> She definitely crossed some kind of line, and she crossed it multiple times. She hid all this stuff from you, until you found out about it. I agree with @She'sStillGotIt, it sounds like your friends are do right guys, that took a lot of guts for your neighbour to tell you that - he doesn't know that you wouldn't fly off the handle and blame him, but he told you anyway.


You missed an important point, the friend who took her swimming lied to me about the timeline, saying it happened before we became friends. When I approached my wife about it, I left some details out to see if the stories would match. She said it happened a couple years after him and i became friends. So a double whammy for me, they both lied and he wanted to bed my wife.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Everyone has weak days, just go read the divorce section. It is okay to vent here and look for help.

She broke it off with the married man she screwed, but remained friends. Sorry, that's some crappy morals. Someone deceives you and their spouse on a personal level, but you remain friends.

LOL.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

... and you only know what part of what really went on. 

No matter how bad you feel you are doing what you should. No one deserves to live in a marriage like that.

Vent here as much as you want or need.


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## getting it together (Jun 28, 2017)

Q:When does a spouse cross the cheat line? 

A: When anything they do with the OM/OW becomes or is clandestine.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Way to go in divorcing her.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

i hope you got rid of your friend as well....i not want someone like that as a friend.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

If this were a jury trial the circumstantial evidence would be compelling. It's very unlikely with all the times she's put herself in these situations, that it never went physical. Very, very unlikely. You have no choice but to assume it did.

And I'm sure you've asked her this question. If she was so appalled to find out she was dating a married man; why did she want to remain "friends" with him when she found out he was married? I think she always new he was married and it didn't bother her a bit.

You're doing the right thing. Just because you don't have a smoking gun, doesn't mean you need one.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Mike80, 

This is simple. Figure out what YOUR definition of infidelity is. My definition is giving any percentage of affection, loyalty or companionship to any person other than my spouse. Now, I mean this in the romantic way, not being affectionate toward grandchildren or being a companion to an old same-gender high school buddy. So... 100% of my spouse's affection, loyalty and companionship are MINE, and he has volunteered to "forsake all others"... and 100% of my affection, loyalty and companionship are HIS AND HIS ALONE, and I have volunteered to "forsake all others." 

Using that definition, she's never, ever forsaken all others, and clearly % of her affection and loyalty are to other men, otherwise she wouldn't be fighting ya on this. 

See? It's simple.


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

Mike80 said:


> farsidejunky said:
> 
> 
> > Which part did I get wrong?
> ...


You are doing the right thing. I have no problem with giving you some validation. It's a rough process and you are not doing the right thing. Keep on doing what your doing only talk to her if it's about the divorce.


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

badmemory said:


> OP,
> 
> If this were a jury trial the circumstantial evidence would be compelling. It's very unlikely with all the times she's put herself in these situations, that it never went physical. Very, very unlikely. You have no choice but to assume it did.
> 
> ...


I think the jury verdict is in. She is guilty.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

...the very moment that an intent to deceive enters the picture.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I agree with Gus. The moment she does something that she purposely knows she needs to keep from you Is the start of the affair. You are wise to get this woman out for your life. It will only get worse.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

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thedope said:


> I think the jury verdict is in. She is guilty.



She was guilty the first time....and she certainly was no angel the second time...it's called boundaries and that woman did not know how to stay inside her lane.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

thedope said:


> You are doing the right thing. I have no problem with giving you some validation. It's a rough process and you are not doing the right thing. Keep on doing what your doing only talk to her if it's about the divorce.


Nice to see you're staying true to yourself, now. She sounds like she has no empathy, and is incredibly manipulative. No contact will definitely bring you peace.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

She's just not marriage material. 

And you have a problem exacting consequences for actions that cross your boundaries. There should have been nothing beyond cheat line 1. You lack the confidence to put your foot down, so is it any wonder why she kept up the bad behavior? There were no actual consequences.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

@Mike89, I just read your opening post.

You've recounted inappropriate relationships with three guys, two of which provided unsolicited confessions regarding some inappropriate contact initiated by your wife.

So now I'll ask you this --

How many other guys do you think are out there that you _don't_ know about?

Your wife is a serial cheater.

It's good to read that you're well on your way to being rid of her.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Mike80 said:


> You missed an important point, the friend who took her swimming lied to me about the timeline, saying it happened before we became friends. When I approached my wife about it, I left some details out to see if the stories would match. She said it happened a couple years after him and i became friends. So a double whammy for me, they both lied and he wanted to bed my wife.


Nice friend.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

snerg said:


> Nice friend.


Right?

I especially liked the part where he figured it was OK to bang OP's wife since he and OP didn't know each other that well.

But wait -- they did!

But then which liar do you believe...?!?

LOL


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

M80,

No children, right?

Eject now.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Mike80 said:


> You missed an important point, the friend who took her swimming lied to me about the timeline, saying it happened before we became friends. When I approached my wife about it, I left some details out to see if the stories would match. She said it happened a couple years after him and i became friends. So a double whammy for me, they both lied and he wanted to bed my wife.


You buddy likely started talking before his brains told him to stop, so he changed his story slightly. Who knows? You have already separated - just move on to divorce and find a woman who cares.

I'm not going to quote your original post. So here are the rest of my thoughts.

What you know of your wife is just the tip of an iceberg (someone already posted an image). Half of what you now, came from other guys.

Think, she can order pizza and give the delivery guy a BJ and tell him to come back later for the vag for his tips. You would NEVER EVER know - no text or FB required to leave a paper or electronic trail.
Your wife likes to bang guys, lots of them. She will never ever stop. When she gets herpes - she still won't stop. BTW: Check yourself for STDs and test again in 6 months.

Going to these guys homes and places of work, wearing skimpy or exposing clothing. For guys who don't know or don't care if she is married - they'll hit it. It's 90% on her, 10% on them (not scientific BTW). Her desire was to have sex with them - way past teasing. No reason to say "no" if they asked. You would never know, right?

Sorry, but she's been lying to you from (Cheat count 1) - hiding interactions of these men from you is simply that... lies. Why lie about something innocent?

She will always be this way.
Divorce her before she gets pregnant by someone.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Whether she has actually cheated or not(and It looks as if she has) she has certainly tried to cheat many times. She lies, deceives, is practically offering her self to different men and cares nothing for what you think.
She is acting like a promiscuous single woman.


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