# My 4 year old shocked me to tears today!



## redbaron007

Earlier this evening, my 4 year old son said something so shocking that I broke down and started sobbing. I consider myself highly educated, making six figures, lived and worked in 3 countries on 3 continents. What possibly could my 4 year old have said that made me completely break down? My son told my wife: “Daddy hit me”.

My son has always been extremely attached to his mother, my wife. Early on in his infancy, though he was comfortably sleeping on his own, she brought him over to sleep next to her, and this continued to this day. Part of the reason is that my son had a twin brother who died in the womb in the 24th month of pregnancy. My wife, an ObGyn herself, has since been understandably completely attached to my son….to the extent that all he has to do is bawl/whine/complain and he gets his way. Even blatantly overruling me in front of my son when I feebly try to discipline him.

My wife’s daily chorus is:”Look how attached he is to me, we share a special bond. You don’t care enough.” This, even though I wake him, make him breakfast and fill his lunchbox, drop him to school and pick him up, take him to swimming and soccer lessons, play time at park, story time and bath at night. I have been trying till very recently to start a home business, so most household tasks fall in my lap by default. The startup not being successful plus the daily hammering about not making any $$ by my physician wife who makes $$$$$ led me to take up a job in the corporate world again this week (starting next week).

Daily questions from my wife to my son: 
Wife: “Do you want to sleep next to mamma or daddy?” 
Son:”Mamma!”.
Wife:”Who is your best friend? Is it Daddy?”
Son: “Nooo, Mamma!”

Today, her daily question was:
Wife (sitting on sofa watching TV):”Son,I am a bad parent” (WTF!!!)
Son (shocked!):”Umm….No, Daddy is ”.
Wife:”Really? Why?”
Son:”Because he hit me”. (WTF!!)
Wife:”When?”
Son:”Yesterday”.(he calls everything in the past yesterday).
Wife:”Where was I?”
Son:”Right here, on the red sofa, watching TV” (WTF!!)
Wife:”When did this happen again?”
Son:”Yesterday, long time ago when I was one.”
Me (preparing his dinner in kitchen): gob-smacked, followed by complete collapse.

Wife gives me a lecture saying:”you need to reflect and then ensure going forward that you don’t scare him. I’m sure you didn’t hit him, but he sure is scared of you, so he said that.” I am so stunned and devastated that I just shake my head.

How do I tell my 4 year old that what he did (lie about daddy hitting him) was wrong and was extremely hurtful to Daddy?

If I continue to try and discipline him, I continue to be the bad parent while my wife with her kisses, hugs and concealed threats (son, do you want me to leave you with daddy and go away?) continues to brainwash my son. 

What on earth should I do???


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## Rowan

Get the entire family into family counseling with a highly qualified therapist as soon as is humanly possible. What your wife is doing to your son is twisted and not okay. And someone besides you needs to be able to bear witness to the fact that you're not, in fact, an abusive parent. If your wife won't go, you go, and take your son. 

Does your wife have a personality disorder or any type of emotional or mental illness?


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## Miss Taken

I think it would be a mistake to hope for a four year old child to have a deep understanding or care for your feelings.

Children at this age lack empathy. Their brain just hasn't developed enough for it. So a long, drawn out discussion about how sad/hurt you were might sink in a little but don't expect it to go too deep.

Simply put, I would have a general conversation with him about lying. Tell a story, like the one about the boy who cried wolf too many times. Put more emphasis on how the lying caused people not to believe him once he told the truth... not the he got eaten part lol.

Also with kids, the more you tend to try to call them out for lying, the more invested in the lie they become. For some kids I find it's better to react with an, "that's interesting" or "oh is that so?" or "So that's how you experienced it huh?" or "I don't quite remember things that way." without really getting invested in trying to prove them wrong or call them liars. At least that's something I noticed for my own son (10). When he would fib, if I called him out on it, he'd get defensive and try to lie further about how he wasn't lying right now. React nonchalantly, agreeable but still a bit dismissively about the story and he often fesses up that he's fibbing or exaggerating the story. His lying also became less often. 

As for your wife's relationship with your son - it is good that they're close but she is being disrespectful to you and sounds like manipulative to him about their relationship.

How much one-on-one, quality father/son time do you spend with your son? Not watching TV, not with your wife, but just you and him?

If it's not much, I suggest you step it up a notch. If you want a closer bond with him, you need to do more things with him that he's interested in, without your wife. Get on his level, sit on the floor and play Legos or hot wheels cars. Build a project together, take him fishing at the lake/creek without mommy there. Take him to the park after work at least once a week and play with him on the equipment (who cares if it looks silly). When he wakes up from a nightmare, you go comfort him. If he falls and cries because he's hurt, go pick him up and kiss his knee instead of your wife. Insist to your wife that you will go and can handle it. When he cries for mommy, as he no doubt will at first just be patient and comforting. Tell him she's sleeping. All of those things will bond him closer to you.

Lastly, you need to talk to your wife about her disrespect towards you in front of your son. She needs to stop rubbing her relationship with him in your face. My youngest (2) is clingier to me than his dad but I would never brag about that or rub it in my spouse's face that he wants me more than him.


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## lenzi

I'm not getting why your son would fabricate that you hit him on at least 2 occasions.


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## Runs like Dog

If this is accurate then you're being set up for arrest, divorce and loss of any custody.


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## CantePe

If anyone is abusive, it is her. She is psychologically and emotionally abusing the both of you. I find her behavior is reflective of a bad mother. That is called parental alienation, using a child to alienate the other parent and causing psychological warfare. I have no respect for your wife, she isn't a mother, she is a selfish being.


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## lenzi

Runs like Dog said:


> If this is accurate then you're being set up for arrest, divorce and loss of any custody.


Parental Alienation is usually only seen in divorce.

It's bad now, if they separate it's going to get exponentially worse.

Scratch that. It will get infinitely worse.

Maybe it's time to start recording those conversations between mom and son.


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## RoseAglow

OP, if it helps, my almost 4 yr old son has our told his preschool teacher "My mommy beats me!" and has said to me, "I love you, Mommy, even when you hurt me."

I have no idea where the "Mommy beats me!" came from, unless he was talking about me beating him while we race (sometimes he wins, sometimes I win". I don't spank and have certainly never beat him.

The "Mommy hurts me" is from me telling him that I love him no matter what, even when he is naughty. He says that I hurt his feelings when I put him in the naughty corner. So in his own way, he was just repeating back to me what I say to him. It just took a little bit of discussion to find out what he was talking about.

At any rate, I fully expect CPS to come knocking on our door one day from the things that spill out of his mouth! You can't take it personally. Kids at 4 years old live in their imaginations. Part of parenting is to help them navigate this time and yes, talk about lying (vs. making your son responsible for your feelings.)

I agree with the other posters that the real concern here is your wife setting up Mommy vs Daddy and her enmeshment. WTF is she doing saying "I am a bad parent" or "do you want me to go away?" to your 4 year old? And then pushing his imagined scenarios onto you. 

I agree with that her actions are emotionally abusive and she is setting up your son for serious problems down the line. You're an adult and theoretically can handle it. In reality, it's not healthy for you either. 

In your shoes I'd be setting up family therapy with or without your wife and I would also start researching options for divorce or separation. This is a case where you might be able to intervene early and at least lessen the amount of emotional mess your wife is heaping on your son.


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## unbelievable

Your kid isn't the one who needs correction. That'd be your wife. What sort of narcissistic psycho coaches a 4 year old into saying ugly crap about their parent? You may want to seriously consider other living arrangements before this crazy bat gets you locked up. The next allegation could be sexual molestation and it could be made in front of an investigator.


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## RoseAglow

lenzi said:


> Parental Alienation is usually only seen in divorce.
> 
> It's bad now, if they separate it's going to get exponentially worse.
> 
> Scratch that. It will get infinitely worse.
> 
> Maybe it's time to start recording those conversations between mom and son.


His best chance is to get the son into therapy and get a record going of the wife's actions. I think separation and possibly divorce is the best change of forcing a chance. It's not a good situation.


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## Miss Taken

RoseAglow:

Your story reminds me of my own 10 year old. He once asked if we could play cops and robbers. I was supposed to be a cop. He wanted me to tie him to the chair and duct tape his mouth as they do on TV. 

NO WAY IN HELL, I thought. All I could think about is him going to school and telling all of his teachers that his mom ties him down to chairs and tapes his mouth. 

Sorry to t/j.


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## redbaron007

@Rowan- My wife likes to be competitive at everything that she does. Early on in the marriage, she repressed this extreme competitive part of herself as she was in the middle of med residency and was working 80 hours being paid a pittance. The extreme assertiveness manifested itself only 2 years ago once she finished her residency and got a highly paid job. Apart from that, she vents her stress on me, i.e. extremely polite with patients and peers (loved by them), but at home vents at me. Part of it could be because this is the first time roles have been reversed (me at home, she working), so I have set it right by going back to the corporate world and abandoning my startup. I think MC is the way to go forward.


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## redbaron007

@Miss Taken - thanks for your helpful tips. Excellent idea about focusing on the root issue (lying) instead of the particular instance (about Daddy hitting him). The Boy who cried Wolf is an excellent idea and will be immediately added to the nightly reading list.

Re:quality time, we spend at least 1 hour every evening playing board games (Kids monopoly, Kids scrabble, Spot It, Lego Minotaur,Sorry,Sequence....). The house is literally littered with Lego bricks of all kinds as this is something I like too.

Though my wife does not explicitly manipulate my son (say, by saying Daddy is bad), the constant comparison (who is your "best" friend) combined with total indulgence (mom - good cop) does implicitly have the same effect in my young son.

Another thing is that she makes totally shocking statements to him sometimes. More than once, after a difficult day of surgeries, she has come home and sat in front of the TV watching Law and Order Special Victims Unit. My son probably got on her nerves (I forget the actual reason), and she yelled: "Mamma is dead!"....this has not happened frequently, maybe 3 times in the last year but it leaves my son devastated. He sees his mom as his anchor to this world, and any upsetting statement devastates him. I think the "Daddy hit me" is a pure reaction to my wife saying "I am a bad parent".

Admittedly, our marriage is far from ideal in the last 2 years, partly because of the role reversal (her making $$$$$ from $$, me making $ from $$$$) and partly due to her stressful job dealing with high risk pregnancies. But I think there is a better way to deal with stress (meditation, aerobics, sex) instead of bottling it up...and BTW she started smoking recently which I've never seen her do for last 10 years. MC is on the cards once I settle into my new job.


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## redbaron007

@Lenzi: My son did not say I hit him more than once. What he means by "Yesterday, long time ago when I was one." is that it was sometime in the past, when I was younger. The phrase "Yesterday, long time ago when I was one." is his code for it.


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## RoseAglow

redbaron007 said:


> @Rowan- My wife likes to be competitive at everything that she does. Early on in the marriage, she repressed this extreme competitive part of herself as she was in the middle of med residency and was working 80 hours being paid a pittance. The extreme assertiveness manifested itself only 2 years ago once she finished her residency and got a highly paid job. Apart from that, she vents her stress on me, i.e. extremely polite with patients and peers (loved by them), but at home vents at me. Part of it could be because this is the first time roles have been reversed (me at home, she working), so I have set it right by going back to the corporate world and abandoning my startup. I think MC is the way to go forward.


All this is fine and good re: you and your wife's relationship.

However, seriously consider what your wife is setting up for your young son. Right now he should be feel and secure; instead your wife is not presenting to him a stable home. You cannot make a young child feel safe by saying "I'm a bad parent" or "Do you want me to leave you alone?" or by sending the message that one parent is bad.

Competition between adults- eh, whatever floats your boat.

Setting up your young child to have doubts about Daddy or Mommy, asking which is better, him providing her validation (which is all this crap is)- this is extremely unhealthy.

Four year olds are continuing to learn boundaries, working out their world and thoughts via fantasy and play. Your wife is seriously threatening the healthy development of your son's boundaries and sense of self.

To be clear- I am not talking about her letting your 4 year old sleep in bed or her disagreeing with your level of involvement/discipline. I think most parents have disagreements on these issues.

I am talking about your wife's need to be the Better Parent, to the Closest One to Him, her having daily conversations about who is better, and her general upsetting the balances to get the reaction she wants out of your son. She is getting her fix for approval at the cost of your son's sense of security and well-being.

That is effed up. If wife happy being effed up, that is on her. But don't let your son grow up this way without a fight. 

At a bare minimum, shut down her daily conversations right away. "You are being inappropriate with our son. Stop it." And be ready for a battle.


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## redbaron007

@RoseAglow - thanks for sharing your story...interesting to see there are more parents out there who are similarly shocked by their kids statements.

Again, my wife is not directly manipulative and has been only occasionally inappropriate (Mamma is dead). Daily convo is as follows:
Wife: “Do you want to sleep next to mamma or daddy?” 
Son:”Mamma!”.
Wife:”Who is your best friend? Is it Daddy?”
Son: “Nooo, Mamma!”

I think my son sleeping next to us on the same bed is another problem. Maybe this is to avoid having sex with me, or maybe this is a fallout of the lost twin, I'm sure it is not beneficial to any of us. I got my son a red Car-shaped bed with working headlights and soft mattress. He has not slept in it even once.

Due to my job being 2 hours away, I will be staying away during the week, so a trial separation is inevitable..


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## BWBill

_Daily questions from my wife to my son: 
Wife: “Do you want to sleep next to mamma or daddy?” 
Son:”Mamma!”.
Wife:”Who is your best friend? Is it Daddy?”
Son: “Nooo, Mamma!”
_

This is not healthy. First, children should respect each of their parents. If your wife teaches disrespect to a child she will reap grief when he is a teenager. Second, children should have a positive view of their parent's marriage. They will model that behavior throughout their lives.

Your son may be thinking that he's pleasing his mother by lying about you, or he may be reflecting his mother's attitudes by fantasizing these things about you.

Husbands and wives should be building each other up, not competing or tearing each other down. You and your wife need to talk about this and she needs to change.


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## redbaron007

Also in case everyone here is wondering what kind of child my son is, here is the feedback from his Montessori teachers:
- way ahead of class in reading
- ahead in writing
- way ahead in basic math 
- has grown out of shyness, learnt to communicate concerns instead of bursting into tears.

He is always cheerful and has a lot of friends who run to hug him when I drop him off at school. He is a happy child. The only troubling issue for me is he has learnt that if I say no to anything (more candy, TV), he can go straight to his mom and whine, and get this demand met.


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## NewLife2017

This is wrong on so many levels and I don't think you understand the urgency. She sounds like she is COACHING him. This needs to be recorded to protect yourself. I have a feeling that something bad is coming your way. I really hope I'm wrong.


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## tom67

NewLife2017 said:


> This is wrong on so many levels and I don't think you understand the urgency. She sounds like she is COACHING him. This needs to be recorded to protect yourself. I have a feeling that something bad is coming your way. I really hope I'm wrong.


:iagree:
You have to set up vars around the house so you get the full picture of what she is doing.
Good God get that kid into therapy and prepare for the worst.


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## RoseAglow

redbaron007 said:


> @RoseAglow - thanks for sharing your story...interesting to see there are more parents out there who are similarly shocked by their kids statements.


Oh yes! Sometimes you just have to shake your head. My son also is like yours in regards to time. If it happened in the past, it happened "Last Year". Last night, two months, six months, it doesn't matter- it's all "last year."



> Again, my wife is not directly manipulative and has been only occasionally inappropriate (Mamma is dead). Daily convo is as follows:
> Wife: “Do you want to sleep next to mamma or daddy?”
> Son:”Mamma!”.
> Wife:”Who is your best friend? Is it Daddy?”
> Son: “Nooo, Mamma!”


The above example isn't as bad as others- OMG, "Mommy's dead"?!?! But it's still really *not good*.

She is making herself feel better by asking a question that 4 year olds really shouldn't have to even consider. She is getting an Admiration fix from him.

I would be highly bothered and angry with my husband if he asked my son ever, let alone daily, "Who is your best friend? Daddy or Mommy?" 

This is basically asking "Who do you like better?" That does not fit anywhere in my book in healthy parenting. My husband and I present a united front, even when we disagree with what the other is doing. 

It is not healthy to undermine the other parent.

Also, what do you think your wife would do if your son said "Daddy is my best friend!" What would her reaction be? 

I think your son is not only learning to put your wife above you, but also is learning that it is all-important to Please Mommy.

And while almost all young children want to please their Mom and Dad, it is one thing to make Mom and Dad happy by doing the right thing, learning to use the potty, learning to use their words, etc vs. "Give Mommy her Fix", "Make Mommy Feel Good."

On the one hand is appropriate pride in your child's accomplishments; the other side is Needy Approval from the child.

We ask our son "who is your best friend" too, sometimes. It is always another kid- one day it's John, another day it's Seth, sometime it is his cousin. But it is not Mommy or Daddy. And certainly not either/or.

I know brevity is not my strong-point, I'll stop hammering this point here.




> I think my son sleeping next to us on the same bed is another problem. Maybe this is to avoid having sex with me, or maybe this is a fallout of the lost twin, I'm sure it is not beneficial to any of us. I got my son a red Car-shaped bed with working headlights and soft mattress. He has not slept in it even once.


My husband and I had our son sleeping with us until only recently. We were on the same page, though. 

The car bed sounds awesome! What we did was start to point out in all the books, TV shows/movies when a kid was sleeping in their own bed. Happily pretty much every form of kid media about bedtime has the kid in his/her own bed. Going to sleep in his own "Big Boy Bed" became a point of pride for him, he wanted to try it. He knows he can come into our room later if he wakes up and is afraid. We'll wean that off too but so far, so good.



> Due to my job being 2 hours away, I will be staying away during the week, so a trial separation is inevitable..


Hmm. Not to be even more of a downer, but when separation means NO contact with Dad, then I agree with Lenzi, this is only going to get worse. Is this the new corporate job? 

I am writing all this in the hopes you will consider this and find it to be a serious problem. Your son is only 4 now but it will grow if unchecked, and it could get very ugly.

If you start to take it seriously, hopefully your wife can start to realize it. But if you don't take it seriously, she will go on doing this. It's not good for you, your son, your relationship with your son, or even your wife. She should be getting her admiration fix from YOU. You don't want her to continue the path of getting her emotional needs met from her son or anyone but you.

Ah- once again, no brevity! I'll stop here.


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## RoseAglow

redbaron007 said:


> Also in case everyone here is wondering what kind of child my son is, here is the feedback from his Montessori teachers:
> - way ahead of class in reading
> - ahead in writing
> - way ahead in basic math
> - has grown out of shyness, learnt to communicate concerns instead of bursting into tears.
> 
> He is always cheerful and has a lot of friends who run to hug him when I drop him off at school. He is a happy child. The only troubling issue for me is he has learnt that if I say no to anything (more candy, TV), he can go straight to his mom and whine, and get this demand met.


Yes, he is smart and has a high emotional/social IQ. I bet he is quite tuned into meeting his Mom's emotional need for Admiration, Being the Best, making Mom feel good. 

Why should he respect you? It is reinforced for him daily that Mom is good and better than you. I am not being facetious, either.


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## redbaron007

@RoseAglow-
Smarts aside, he is a very loving child. He comes to be for play (mostly legos + boardgames) and bedtime story, is free with his hugs with me, wants me to piggyback him, kick around a soccer ball, play catch.... and has never been disrespectful to me....which is why I was so shocked by his statement...but I agree that ignoring this issue will make it worse...the first time should also be the last time he says something like that. 

To be fair, I have noticed that sometimes I will raise my voice to discipline him and that scares him. I will try to keep my voice low. He has mentioned sometimes to me: "You yelled at me" even though I did not think I was. Point taken, son.

I will talk to a family therapist myself and see how to proceed...since I am again financially independent (just in time!), I need to take precautions like setting up an individual account and routing my paycheck there. As for my wife and me, the forced trial separation will give me time to think through. I will issue an ultimatum (Join me in Marriage Counseling or else we will divorce) once I settle into my job.


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## EnjoliWoman

A lot of insight here. 

Alienation can occur within marriage or during a divorce. It is nearly always the case that the alienating parent has a personality disorder.

Whether she is narcissistic and uses her son to feed her narcissistic supply or is very needy, clingy and has a fear of abandonment, she definitely has issues. 

Aside from potentially damaging your relationship with him by reenforcing fear and loyalty to her, giving in to your son and undermining your authority also sets him up to have discipline issues as he gets older. Lack of appropriate boundaries will only backfire the older he gets. Parents are not children's best friends - at least not until all parties are adults. 

Being a friend is actually subconsciously disconcerting to the child. They NEED to have boundaries, discipline and guidance. Not establishing authority now is going to become more of an issue and with your son being bright he will learn how to capitalize on her weakness.

Obviously if this is your only child there's no way to know if this is how she would have been anyway, but I wonder if losing one fetus in the womb made her a little over-clingy to your son.

Although the family bed can work, it requires someone very dedicated to the entire family unit including the spouse. Most of the time it merely pushes the husband out as if he's not needed and sex becomes nonexistent. Your son needs to learn to sleep on his own. Becoming independent, having faith in his own ability to comfort himself, not fear the dark, being confident and comfortable being in his room alone, etc. are things parents and children should strive for.

I'm glad you have cultivated a good relationship with him. But be wary. Know that your new job 2 hours away could mean you only see him on weekends and the more time he spends with momma, the more he will view you as their mutual 'enemy' after divorce should she not want to work on the marriage and family dynamics.

Although marriage counseling might be able to address some issues, you might want to consider the family therapist who has an even better understanding of FAMILY dynamics. I'd interview a few of them and ask about their specialties. Some naturally prefer/work better with couples dealing with infidelity, some are better with sexual issues and some with disjointed parenting issues.

Good luck.


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## toonaive

Runs like Dog said:


> If this is accurate then you're being set up for arrest, divorce and loss of any custody.


This is exactly what I was wondering. All those leading questions.


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## RoseAglow

redbaron007 said:


> @RoseAglow-
> Smarts aside, he is a very loving child. He comes to be for play (mostly legos + boardgames) and bedtime story, is free with his hugs with me, wants me to piggyback him, kick around a soccer ball, play catch.... and has never been disrespectful to me....which is why I was so shocked by his statement...but I agree that ignoring this issue will make it worse...the first time should also be the last time he says something like that.


Well, just to be clear, I think your 4 y/o saying something like that isn't all that off the wall. Not that he SHOULD- just that kids sometimes come up with some crazy stuff. 

When I talked about not ignoring the issue, I meant intervening immediately when your wife says something like "Who is your best friend? Mommy or Daddy?"



> I will talk to a family therapist myself and see how to proceed...since I am again financially independent (just in time!), I need to take precautions like setting up an individual account and routing my paycheck there. As for my wife and me, the forced trial separation will give me time to think through. I will issue an ultimatum (Join me in Marriage Counseling or else we will divorce) once I settle into my job.


While I hope it doesn't come to this with your wife- I am glad you are in the financial position to prepare yourself.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

redbaron007 said:


> Earlier this evening, my 4 year old son said something so shocking that I broke down and started sobbing. I consider myself highly educated, making six figures, lived and worked in 3 countries on 3 continents. What possibly could my 4 year old have said that made me completely break down? My son told my wife: “Daddy hit me”.
> 
> My son has always been extremely attached to his mother, my wife. Early on in his infancy, though he was comfortably sleeping on his own, she brought him over to sleep next to her, and this continued to this day. Part of the reason is that my son had a twin brother who died in the womb in the 24th month of pregnancy. My wife, an ObGyn herself, has since been understandably completely attached to my son….to the extent that all he has to do is bawl/whine/complain and he gets his way. Even blatantly overruling me in front of my son when I feebly try to discipline him.
> 
> My wife’s daily chorus is:”Look how attached he is to me, we share a special bond. You don’t care enough.” This, even though I wake him, make him breakfast and fill his lunchbox, drop him to school and pick him up, take him to swimming and soccer lessons, play time at park, story time and bath at night. I have been trying till very recently to start a home business, so most household tasks fall in my lap by default. The startup not being successful plus the daily hammering about not making any $$ by my physician wife who makes $$$$$ led me to take up a job in the corporate world again this week (starting next week).
> 
> Daily questions from my wife to my son:
> Wife: “Do you want to sleep next to mamma or daddy?”
> Son:”Mamma!”.
> Wife:”Who is your best friend? Is it Daddy?”
> Son: “Nooo, Mamma!”
> 
> Today, her daily question was:
> Wife (sitting on sofa watching TV):”Son,I am a bad parent” (WTF!!!)
> Son (shocked!):”Umm….No, Daddy is ”.
> Wife:”Really? Why?”
> Son:”Because he hit me”. (WTF!!)
> Wife:”When?”
> Son:”Yesterday”.(he calls everything in the past yesterday).
> Wife:”Where was I?”
> Son:”Right here, on the red sofa, watching TV” (WTF!!)
> Wife:”When did this happen again?”
> Son:”Yesterday, long time ago when I was one.”
> Me (preparing his dinner in kitchen): gob-smacked, followed by complete collapse.
> 
> Wife gives me a lecture saying:”you need to reflect and then ensure going forward that you don’t scare him. I’m sure you didn’t hit him, but he sure is scared of you, so he said that.” I am so stunned and devastated that I just shake my head.
> 
> How do I tell my 4 year old that what he did (lie about daddy hitting him) was wrong and was extremely hurtful to Daddy?
> 
> If I continue to try and discipline him, I continue to be the bad parent while my wife with her kisses, hugs and concealed threats (son, do you want me to leave you with daddy and go away?) continues to brainwash my son.
> 
> What on earth should I do???


You state the truth in front of him.
Next time she asks who is the better parent, you state:
"Anyone who asks their child who is the better parent, is not a good parent. Mummy needs to talk to a doctor who can fix people who ask their kid to compare Mummy and Daddy and decide who is the favorite and who is the best. It's sick to think that way, so Mummy will have to go to see a special doctor and get well."

So......next time she asks that, he will say "Mummy, you need to go to the special doctor." :rofl:

And, he will be right.

Come on man, you don't need to be making $$$$$$$ to be a man, stay home with your kid and work on your business. Don't fund her lifestyle, she's the one who wanted to be a doctor. You want to do something else, as long as you're contributing to the basic bottom lines, who cares? 

And stick up for yourself, if she can talk nonsense the least you can do is talk truth. Your kid needs to hear it. 

Have you never heard of parental alienation? 
Don't let her do that to your kid.

As far as sleeping with family together at that age, no harm, but why not suggest he can sleep in the MIDDLE and therefore does not have to choose between Mummy and Daddy. Mummy is not very bright if she has not thought of this, even a kid can think of this, and I'm sure your kid would suggest it, but he has been brainwashed to know IT IS THE WRONG ANSWER (at least when Mummy is asking the questions.)

This is sick. Really sick.


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## turnera

You need to get your wife into therapy with you - today.


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## turnera

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> You state the truth in front of him.
> Next time she asks who is the better parent, you state:
> "Anyone who asks their child who is the better parent, is not a good parent. Mummy needs to talk to a doctor who can fix people who ask their kid to compare Mummy and Daddy and decide who is the favorite and who is the best. It's sick to think that way, so Mummy will have to go to see a special doctor and get well."


Worth repeating. Not sure I'd say she's sick, as that will just put her in competitive mode to crush you. But you CAN come back with LOGIC every time she tries that crap. Maybe she doesn't see it.


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## Anon Pink

Your wife IS sick. She has distorted reality, for whatever reason. 




Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> You state the truth in front of him.
> *Next time she asks who is the better parent, you state:
> "Anyone who asks their child who is the better parent, is not a good parent. Mummy needs to talk to a doctor who can fix people who ask their kid to compare Mummy and Daddy and decide who is the favorite and who is the best. It's sick to think that way, so Mummy will have to go to see a special doctor and get well."
> *
> So......next time she asks that, he will say "Mummy, you need to go to the special doctor." :rofl:
> 
> And, he will be right.
> 
> Come on man, you don't need to be making $$$$$$$ to be a man, stay home with your kid and work on your business. Don't fund her lifestyle, she's the one who wanted to be a doctor. You want to do something else, as long as you're contributing to the basic bottom lines, who cares?
> 
> *And stick up for yourself, if she can talk nonsense the least you can do is talk truth. Your kid needs to hear it*.
> 
> Have you never heard of parental alienation?
> Don't let her do that to your kid.
> 
> As far as sleeping with family together at that age, no harm, but why not suggest he can sleep in the MIDDLE and therefore does not have to choose between Mummy and Daddy. Mummy is not very bright if she has not thought of this, even a kid can think of this, and I'm sure your kid would suggest it, but he has been brainwashed to know IT IS THE WRONG ANSWER (at least when Mummy is asking the questions.)
> 
> This is sick. Really sick.


Your wife, and OB/GYN should know better, and I bet she does! Do not allow another manipulative conversation to go unchallenged. Don't raise your voice, but do speak with authority when you correct your son in front of your wife as you teach him that Mommies and Daddies should NEVER allow a child to to think one parent loves them more than the other. Do it with a smile, as if your wife is playing a silly game that went to far and you are kindly drawing attention to it. "Okay Mommy that's enough, this has gone too far..."


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

turnera said:


> Worth repeating. Not sure I'd say she's sick, as that will just put her in competitive mode to crush you. But you CAN come back with LOGIC every time she tries that crap. Maybe she doesn't see it.


It is impossible for an insane person to crush a sane truth-talker. Sure the insane person will become even more insane, but that's why the child needs to hear that Mummy is sick and needs to see a doctor. Because Mummy will be doing and saying some even more bizarre things.

UNTREATED mental illness is a horrible thing for kids to grow up with. The kid needs to be able to separate Mummy from her illness. The sooner the better. 

Also he needs to learn how to call 911 or to run to the neighbors/other safe place if Mummy ever takes a turn for the worse and he feels unsafe with her. Sounds like someone in the home is becoming a big unhinged. 

I would take the kid to counseling, I wouldn't bother with Mummy right now. Focus on self and child.


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## Starstarfish

> Daily questions from my wife to my son:
> Wife: “Do you want to sleep next to mamma or daddy?”
> Son:”Mamma!”.
> Wife:”Who is your best friend? Is it Daddy?”
> Son: “Nooo, Mamma!”


Does this mean your four year is still sleeping in the bed with you?

That's like a major problem right there. For anyone saying "No harm" - I'm wondering what if any actually adult relationship OP and his wife have? Do you actually have adult conversations? Do you ever have sex?

There's deeper problems at work here.


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## redbaron007

Starstarfish said:


> Does this mean your four year is still sleeping in the bed with you?
> 
> That's like a major problem right there. For anyone saying "No harm" - I'm wondering what if any actually adult relationship OP and his wife have? Do you actually have adult conversations? Do you ever have sex?
> 
> There's deeper problems at work here.


Yes, I've stated that in my post earlier - kid still sleeps in bed with us despite my protests.

Deeper problem? You bet....marriage is strained because of a single question: For job reasons, should we stay in California (not great so far for her, good for me) or move to Georgia (apparently better for her, not good for me)?
This probably needs to be in a separate thread by itself.

As she earns more than me being a physician, she is hellbent on moving there as she has prior physician contacts working at the same place. I have a job here that I do not want to leave...and having turned forty it will be harder to find a comparable position outside of Silicon Valley even if it is in Atlanta....so I will not leave my job.

My opinion is that she has not tried hard enough to find a good practice here, and has given up far too soon after a single interview. There are over 40 openings in the state (yes, this is a big figure considering her Obgyn specialty) including 10 within 100 miles yet she has not bothered to try for them...

This difference in opinion has hardened our stances. If my wife decides to leave the state, our marriage is finished, so I will have no option but to approach a lawyer, file for divorce and stop her from leaving without a proper visitation arrangement and maybe get her to pay for the trips too, considering she chose to leave the state unilaterally. Her concern is that I will somehow prevent her from taking my son with her, which is not true. I want to ensure our son gets enough time to spend with me if we are on opposite coasts. But pay she will..

This probably manifests itself in being over-protective towards our son and defensive....the update is she is much better since the last few days when I protested (loudly) about the parental alienation aspect. She uses phrases like "Daddy and me both love you"....but I can see that underlying tension is still present.

Son has not repeated the statement "Daddy hit me" again. He was keen on me reading to his Montessori class which I did today where I spent a couple of hours...

I have bought a voice recorder to record conversations to safeguard myself in future...


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## turnera

Have you tried moving him to his room at night anyway?


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## EleGirl

Boys your son's age tend to be bonded most closely to their mother. When boys get to be about 10, they usually switch and become more closely bonded to their father.

You taking a job 2 hours away and being gone most of the most will only make things worse.

You son might actually do best if you divorce your wife and have him 50% of the time. At least this way you can have time with him when his mother is not manipulating him.


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## EnjoliWoman

Except 50% of the time will be pretty difficult with one parent on the west coast and one on the east coast. That is going to mean the school year with one parent or the other. And if your relationship with your son starts to have significant problems, then it may be that you have to move to the east coast simply because your relationship with your son is more important than your career.

You may want to make copies of important documents like his birth certificate and keep in a safe place only you have access to.


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## redbaron007

EnjoliWoman said:


> Except 50% of the time will be pretty difficult with one parent on the west coast and one on the east coast. That is going to mean the school year with one parent or the other. And if your relationship with your son starts to have significant problems, then* it may be that you have to move to the east coast simply because your relationship with your son is more important than your career.*
> 
> You may want to make copies of important documents like his birth certificate and keep in a safe place only you have access to.


Bingo...that is the crux of the issue. My wife is putting me in a position where I have to ask myself: is my career more important to me, or spending time with my son during formative years and later..and I hate being forced into that situation.

The answer is obvious: I will have to move though the price I will pay for it could be very high for me...

Things are better recently, maybe the "My Dad hit me" was a one-off, it has not happened again and I had a great time at his school today. I may have overreacted but you never know. And I'm trying to convince wife to interview for a few positions here before packing bags and moving...there must be some middle ground.


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## turnera

Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


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## redbaron007

turnera said:


> Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


Just downloaded the kindle version.... this book seems to be quite popular on this forum and has been on my todo list for a while. Thanks.


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## Thor

Do your research on divorce law in California, including custody and alimony. I think if you file in Cali before she leaves, she will be stuck there if she wants any custody. She will owe you child support because she makes more than you, and likely she'll owe you alimony for a long time because you helped support her to getting this very highly paid professional degree.


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## Joeshark

Hi,

Going through similar things but some diffident. Start to find yourself and acknowledge you are not wrong and you are sensible and normal. (mistake here and there that's normal is normal) Then try and find the root causes for your wife of being narcissist or manupulative. Get her to a doctor to find this out. Also research why and what is influencing her, but do not become obsessed in doing it. Remember, you want to help, not screw her over. Try and get the biggest picture what she wants, why she does this and get her and your family therapy. Remember to dig deep and even try and see if someone is not influencing her either. This could be a friend or family member. The other thing, backtrack to see if even before your son was born, she showed similar traits of BP or PD. Maybe she was a Narcissist all along that you never acknowledged. This is as far as I can help, I'm still battling my battle, but I sorted myself out first, and that is important!


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## Joeshark

Another thing, do not assume that spending time on a career is causing this. It could be a convenient tool against you for other reasons your wife plays your son. cover your bases and a better understanding is better than giving up your livelihood for nothing...


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## k22

That's not fair of your wife. Mothers & Fathers have an equal right to bond with their child. Mothers & Fathers also bond in a different way, but that does not make mother or father better at it just different. 

You sound like you are doing the right things, and may need a third party to sit with you and wife. Either she needs to learn to recognize her behavior, or she is doing it on purpose.

Start with in this- state her behavior then how it makes you feel-focus on only behavior no personal attacks
Example:  When you do_____fill in behavior_____ I feel__________put how you feel.
and repeat until she hears you (it may take 4 or 5 times, keep repeating). See what happens
good luck daddy


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## Vanille

I've only read the first post so I'm not sure how things have developed. Something is wrong with your wife. Was she ever like this at all before the baby died? This needs to be addressed and actively worked on. It's not healthy for anyone.

As for you son saying you hit him, I hear a lot of little ones say this and I don't know why! My daughter comes home from school and at least once a week tells me a kid hit her, hit another kid, she hit someone, etc. Then if anyone spanks her there's a chance she will tell people she was hit. *sigh*


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## NobodySpecial

OP Please add me to the list of people advising counseling for you and your wife as well as the VAR in your home.


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## KathyBatesel

I rarely disagree with Elegirl, but I don't think divorce that lets her have unfettered access _more_ often is a good idea.

I agree that counseling would be a good idea, and the power dynamics in your household are seriously skewed right now. You seem to be at a cliff edge. You could fall off the edge into serious harm right now, but it's just as possible that you can find a way to step away from that precipice and find safety. 

Besides seeing a counselor, I'd encourage you to do or think about some other stuff: 

1. Consider what is most important to you - your relationship with your loved ones or being in California. This might be one of those things where you have to choose being being right or being happy. It doesn't matter how justified you are in staying if it destroys your happiness in the process. 

2. However, your man card's already on the line, and giving in can confirm a perception of you as having less power. You have a son who watches your every move and he's learning how to be a man by your choices. Your wife's behaviors could potentially sabotage this development. 

3. You could also ask your wife to consider that it would be a more loving behavior to help the young'un to feel happy about having TWO wonderful caretakers instead of teaching him to feel that only one is important. _Don't let her minimize what she's doing in this regard!! _ If she simply won't, then when she asks him those idiotic favoritism questions, speak an alternative answer that your son hears, like "He likes mommy AND daddy better than anyone else in the world!" 

4. Step up and insist on the marital bed being for the married couple and limit time in bed with your son to 10 or 15 minutes of "reading time" at bed.


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## John Lee

Your wife is using your son to boost her own ego and compete with you, and yes, it's abusive to him. It's also sad, she must feel so lacking in some way that she needs your son to validate her. The good news is that in the long run it will probably not work as long as you remain a good father to your son -- kids tend to be smarter than that, although it certainly can damage them when they realize what's going on. 

Kids at that age are fickle so I wouldn't take anything he says too personally. My three-year-old daughter when I come from home work sometimes screams "NOOOO!!!! DADDY GO AWAY!!!" when I come home from work, and definitely does the "NO DADDY! MAMA!" schtick a lot. But then five minutes later she can be in my arms asking for a kiss. 

I would focus not on how to fix your relationship with your son, but your problems with your wife.


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## A_DelVeccio

I think your wife is damaged from losing one of the children where she wants this super tight bond with your son. I think you should approach counseling and she can get help with the grieving process. 

She probably doesn't realize what she is doing and how this is affecting everyone. She is just happy she has her baby and wants to be close to him for fear of losing him.


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