# New and Need Advice



## oceanch1d (Oct 5, 2011)

Hi,

I wish I had found this forum a year ago. After reading through a LOT of posts, I know there must be other people out here who have been through m situation and can probably help. To make a long (and ever-ongoing) story short, last year I found out that my H was cheating on my via an online/long distance relationship--but to the extent that they spoke on the phone, texted, and (I found out WAY later--thus wasn't an issue til after we started R) visited her twice. It was serious and we did break up, but then once he found out I was actually in my own apartment and he was out, he broke it off--really, I check, and we started R. I haven't been able to gain trust though. Now, please don't judge too harshly because I feel racist writing it, but he is Mexican, and it seems that the way of his culture is cheating and lying. At least, his family (brothers and father) and it seems ALL his friends (not exagerating. seriously.) cheat and have second families! He says he wants an open and honest relationship, he doesn't want to cheat, and all that, but he can't seem to stop himself. I think he is just agreeing with what I say... We have had several bumps during our "recovery" period. I find (inadvertently and on purpose) that he is talking to not one, but SEVERAL other women, many ex-s, on facebook. I've found several conversations that were definitely crossing the line, but not anything like the true cheating he did before. I have brought it up, and once gotten him to admit that he knows it was wrong, but the rest of the time he goes straight to denial and making me feel guilty and crazy. Now, yesterday I found several conversations he hadn't deleted yet (they are gone today, but I emailed myself copies, and-unfortunately-the google translation. Side note: it SUCKS not knowing what he is saying! He used to talk to the original OW with me in the room!!!) and he has crossed into territory that I swore I would leave him if it happened again (ie: one or both saying "I love you," poetic conversations that are clearly woo-ing, some loose plans with each other--who knows how specific they are--damn mexican slang! lol). And he knows it is inappropriate and the consequences, I drew the line very clearly. My question is, how should I go about confronting him? There is a part of me that understands that he is addicted to the emotional high he gets from other women loving him. And I know he lies because he doesn't want our relationship to end, and he loves me. But, because of his peers and upbringing, he really doesn't believe in therapy and possibly doesn't comprehend how he can make himself really change, which is what needs to happen, because he can't give me real R without it. And now I've been in and out of limbo so much I don't know if I want it. How should I confront him? I am not one to suppress something this conflicting, but he refuses to talk about it. 

My ideas: (read, or not). I have been to many websites/books on cheating and therapeutic ways of dealing with it. I get really really flustered when I talk to him about this, and he is quick on his feet so somehow my facts become muddled and fall flat, and I have to wait for more evidence. The evidence I have as of this moment is medium strength--the problem being that he could say that google mistranslated it and it was totally innocent (says this A LOT). So, I was thinking of compiling it all, printing it, and highlighting what I know is crossing the line. I was also thinking of printing several articles on infidelity and relationships and recovery, so he can read it and then he will either take what is there and be the one to suggest real R, or he will gloss over it and that is a sign that its definitely forever over. I believe that relationships should be open and honest, and I don't want to just react angrily and leave. And to compound matters, We just moved to a new house and have been having a wonderful re-blossoming of our relationship. If he has any problems with me, he hasn't told me. We do talk about other problems (like being too busy with work to have sufficient time for each other) and come up with positive solutions. It sucks to be happy and then find this out again. The first time I was COMPLETELY shocked--so much so that I didn't believe he would ever do that and the other woman MUST be delusional and suicidal. Now, I am jaded and not surprised so much as disappointed. And I need advice before jumping in, or else this will turn into one big guilt-insomnia-tic-crazy trip. Thanks.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

As a cheater, I can tell you that if you don't take a hard stance with me, I'm going to continue doing it and telling you lie after lie. I'll even get bolder as time passes. If this doesn't bother you enough to force me to stop, then you are telling me to continue until I either get tired of it, or leave you. You see, you are leaving me in control of something that you should control completely. 

Once you take control and call the shots, I have to make a decision, or accept yours. When are you going to take control?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

HerToo,
That is what I was told by my WW, we're into our R 20 month now and she has been nothing but an open book. What you just posted was so right on in my sitch........

As a betrayed spouse my hard stance/tough love is what work for us. Do not carpet sweep this sh1t.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

I was actually glad I was finally caught. I wanted it to end, but couldn't end it. It's a like a drug. Intervention is needed at times.


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## NURSE51 (Sep 22, 2011)

There is very little you can do to control his behavior.He sounds like a selfish person and you are being emotionally abused.How long do you want it to go on/ How long has it gone on already. You go to a counselor without him. Try a LLSW . Please do not waste anymore time. Especially do not have children until this straightens out


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Here are a few of the "hard stances" that you must take;

Do not beg for your marriage or cry
Show confidence that you can move on with out him
Except the possiblity that the M is over and let him go 
Do not tell him you love him
Its not your fault he choose to be an adultorer



You have your boundries and your terms so stick with them and they are non negotable. It is his choice to respect them and stay married. It is your choice to move on if he doesnt. You can control each other so don't try, but you can control what you will tolorate and what you do for your self.


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## oceanch1d (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks for the advice--I suppose I know what I need to do, its just a matter of doing it. I've been reading about remorse versus rug-sweeping, and I find that we are definitely in the rug-sweeping stage hardcore. The problem is, it started out real! Then it deteriorated and he hides things and blame-shifts. And to take some responsibility (not that he cheated, but that I let this continue), when I am unsure what is going on and if it is "flirting/chatting with an old friend," "emotional cheating" or "full on other relationship," he is so good at trickle truths that I can't get an argument to stand on and somehow get confused and give up discussion/action and decide to wait for some hard evidence. I read a book on cheating, and the only way I got anywhere in the first place was gathering evidence. What are some ways people have confronted their WS and been successful in their outcome of reaching the truth (with either outcome-R or D)?

I also found out about three months ago he has always been a cheater, but this woman--his sister in law who has literally known him since he was a kid--says his behavior has changed since being with me. Can a habitual cheater ever change? There was an excellent post on "gut feeling," and while my gut has been right about his cheating ways, is it also right that he really does want to change and is just falling back into his "comfort zone?" 

Any advice not just on how I can make it happen and ways I can stop myself from participating in "rugsweeping?" And ways I can untangle my gut feeling that "he wants to be good", but is cheating anyways?!?!


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Start behaving like you don't need him in any way. Cut off "normal" contact, and start behaving as if you had truly decided to let him go. Make him worry about what you are doing for once. Don't do anything to "get even" like having an affair yourself. Reduce his value in your life and see what he does. Go places (shopping, take yourself out to dinner, go to a movie) without him, and without telling him you're going or went.

This would have worked on me. I would have focused my attention on you all of a sudden, and the real risk of losing you for good. But listen to others in this forum if they disagree with my reply. They've been here longer than I have.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

Set the boundary and follow through with the consequence if said boundary is crossed.

It really is that simple.

Don't engage in coversation about it, don't get his thoughts on it, don't listen to his excuses....1. set the boundary 2.consequences if crossed. That's it, period.

Cheaters are masters at manipulating...you can start a conversation with them with good and valid points, then before you know it, your leave agreeing with them that their behavior is OK.

Seriously, they are like the best salesmen in the world..they can twist any situation. At best this shows a lack of real remorse (which is vital to recovery) at its worst this shows a real demented attempt at controlling you.

Do not allow yourself to be sucked into his game.


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## oceanch1d (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks guys,

I'll let you know what happens. I need a few days to get myself together so that I do it right. I set the boundaries, and every day I have been finding more clues that are WAY over it. Its over (and most likely for good).

This forum is an excellent support system, it makes me feel more stable just to talk to someone who has been here before. And wow, it is way too many people!


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## oceanch1d (Oct 5, 2011)

So, I wanted to post what happened after the confrontation. It wasn't perfect, and is a work in progress, but if anyone out there sees any big red flags that something is wrong, please say so.

As I said, I took a few days to get some proof together. This is especially hard because his chats are mostly in spanish, so I have to put them in google translate. I got lucky and was able to follow along a FB chat he was having--and deleting as he went along!! The day I confronted him he had been talking with a girl inappropriately about a video chat/picture exchange. He seemed to slide around pinning down a time, and from the messages it seems she is sending him pictures, and wants to chat, but he is (rather coyly) not responding in kind, although still saying things like [her: "shirt on or off" him: "definitely off."] I care about this detail because of what he said later--we will get to that.

I came up with a game plan based on what we need for a real recovery--including me breaking up with him that night if I had to, and was prepared to sit and talk with him calmly and detached. Now, that never works for me, so I admit I did get angry and off topic in the beginning because he gets defensive and first denied everything, then accused me of spying (sort of true I guess, but he KNEW I was checking up on him). Anyways, after some drama and him storming out, we did talk again once he calmed down. I tried the speech about leaving him because I deserve more (and yes, I meant it and believe it), and I explained that I have been looking for help and advice on the internet (although not about the chatroom) and the positive things I have found and what steps we need to start R. He listened and agreed to do everything I'm asking for and seemed to show real remorse. He clearly was having trouble taking responsibility for his actions, because he said that the video chat was all her idea, and while he was wrong not to discourage it, he never participated and would say that he doesn't want to hurt me. Now, I'm not sure if that is true or not, I think maybe partially. Although I think (bad translating here though) that he has mentioned to other women that he is happy with me but...(insert compliments to other women). Clearly, some blameshifting and gaslighting...So, now I am in the limbo stage of seeing if he is really willing to change. What is different from the last time I confronted him is that 1) I am better prepared and know what to look for/do in either outcome. 2) He did admit to knowing he is doing something wrong, he says he will give me his passwords and stop contact with anyone I think is inappropriate, that he does need to be there for me 100%, and he is definitely scared that I will leave if he messes up again. 

Today I wrote him a letter/list of what I consider cheating and will leave him for (because I want both myself and him to know I'm done if ANYTHING happens again, and not have to wait for an escalation and proof and him giving the go-round and excuses). I also have the password list for him to fill out, and dates that NC letters must be written and STD testing must be done. If he hasn't done these things by my deadline, I am going to assume he isn't serious about R.

I hope I am making the right decision. Like many others here, I feel like I could be falling into the trap of being happy when ignorant of the situation. Because I am happy with him. But I know that to be fully happy I need his energy to be focused on our relationship, and not weakened by forming bonds with other women.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

That would have worked on me. Good job!


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## oceanch1d (Oct 5, 2011)

HerToo said:


> That would have worked on me. Good job!


Thanks. Hoping I can stick to it when things get confusing!


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Write your plan down in detail. Read it each day and your daily guide. Even as someone who cheated, I have to do this. I refuse to re-insert my head again.


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