# Married couple constantly fighting



## harmonia

Well here’s my story. At the ripe old age of 20 and still in college, I got engaged to a sailor in the US Navy. Things went downhill immediately after the wedding day. Constant fighting and bickering, long cold silences, many loud arguments which led to shoving and i ended up getting hurt a few times though i don't think he intended to hurt me.

Besides not getting along, we also have very different goals, aspirations, parenting styles, social needs, communication styles, etc etc...

My husband and I both brought up the idea of splitting up and begrudgingly decided to stay together for our daughters’ sake. And we have done so. Next month will be our 11 year anniversary. Unfortunately things continue along in the same miserable way with constant arguments, emotional coldness, physical struggles. and quite a bit of verbal abuse toward me, often in front of our daughter. 

All these years I’ve been trying to do what is best for our daughter. Lately I have begun wondering if I made the wrong choice. Is it possible that witnessing the turmoil in our marriage could be more traumatic to my child than a divorce would be? I have read some statistical information supporting both sides. Wondering if anyone has some insight. 

Another thing that bothers me is my husband is very resentful of women. He will go on and on about how horrible women are and how much more capable and good men are. Our daughter (9 years old) hears her father say things like this daily as well as putting me down. Is that going to impact her self-esteem? 

We started marriage counseling at the end of 2009, but there were issues with our medical insurance and now my husband just doesn’t want to try going again. It is like he is in total denial that anything is wrong. How do I convince him to go to counseling? Is it worth trying to save this marriage?

I worry about filling the role of provider if our marriage does end. I never finished my degree and have only been a stay-at-home mom. And I hear the job market is particularly rough these days.


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## HappyHer

Um. Absolutely yes this is damaging to your daughter. Children model their parents relationships. She hears her own father demeaning other women, and worse, her own mother. That HAS to stop. 

You can't convince him to go to counseling if he is unwilling, but you can lay down some firm boundaries. Talk to him, when things are calm, and preferably in public so you aren't tempted to start yelling. Let him know how much his daughter needs a man that shows an example of loving women and how a woman should be treated. HE HAS TO BE THAT MAN. Ask him what he wants for his little girl. Then let him know what you want for your little girl and find out what he is willing to do.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. What about you and what you deserve? Work with your husband first, but start working towards providing a future for you and your daughter regardless of whether he's a part of it or not. 

From the sounds of it, your daughter might really need some family counseling if she's witnessed years of this type of abuse. See about that, whether your husband joins you or not.


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## DennisNLA

harmonia said:


> Unfortunately things continue along in the same miserable way with constant arguments, emotional coldness, *physical struggles.* and quite a bit of verbal abuse toward me, often in front of our daughter.
> 
> .



Harmonia, please go into more detail about physical struggles. 

Thanks


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## harmonia

The physical struggles usually start from him trying to prevent me from going out the door. He will bodily block me from leaving and I can't get past him. He got me in a choke hold at the door once. He has slapped me in the face. Once he got angry and knocked the chair I was sitting in backwards onto the floor and I fell pretty hard. 

He has also thrown chairs and other objects across the room. He once jumped onto the hood of our car as i was pulling out to try to prevent me from leaving. Several times he has taken apart doors to get to me when I locked myself in a room to get away from him. 

The verbal abuse involves mostly name calling and can be quite degrading. C*nt, b*tch, crazy. He has told me I don't deserve him, that I'm not "on is level", not as smart as him, not his equal and he has to be my daddy. He says I have daddy issues all the time and that the problems in our relationship are all my fault or in my head. He has told me I couldn't survive without him. He also says I have mental problems.

Our daughter witnesses some of these exchanges which really disturbs me. He will say he is leaving us in front of her and she will cry and beg him to stay. I know some serious changes need to be made or we need to end it because this isn't healthy for anyone.


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## questions

oh Harmonica,
I'm so, so sad to read your story. You already know your current environment is not healthy for you and your DD. By staying in this relationship and having your DD witness the physical and verbal violence, you're teaching her that it's acceptable to be abused. Your H threatening to walk out and your DD begging him to stay is simply not acceptable. 

If your H forces any any physical power over your against your will, you need to call the police for domestic violence. Do not make any excuses for his behaviors, and it's simply not acceptable. You need to do this for your DD, if you don't think that you can do it for yourself. He needs to learn ASAP that any form of physical violence is not tolerated by you ANYMORE. 

If your H uses verbal violence, you need to firmly and calmly inform him that it's not acceptable to you anymore and walk away from him. Especially if he does that in front of your DD, you MUST take this step. You need to teach her that it's not ok to be treated this way. If he gets physically violent, call the police right away. Please try to stay calm during this time for your DD so you can explain to her what's going on. 

You need to explain to your DD that what she's been witnessing is wrong, and that you'll not tolerate the abusive behaviors from your H anymore. You can't let her witness the physical and verbal abuses. Otherwise, it's likely that she'll also grow up believing that being physically and verbally abused is ok.

When everything is said and done, I'm not sure your H can change over night, and you might have to have him move out to protect yourself and your DD until he can learn different behaviors. Under no circumstances, you should allow yourself to be violated physically or verbally, especially in front of your DD. 

I don't know where you are located, but you can call the national domestic violence hotline for counseling and education on your rights and options. National Domestic Violence Hotline 
They might point you with the local resources, centers, legal helps available to you. 

There are job training programs, subsidized housings, etc, to help you if you decide to leave your abusive relationship. It's not just your life. You will have to become strong and make tough decisions so your DD can grow up with self-esteem and self-worth not to be abused herself. I sincerely hope that you can set her a good example on being a strong woman who will not tolerated any form of violence against you.


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## beardedinlair

the contradiction here is you can see how she is a fierce proud woman. if i were like the way she described, i would already be in jail, or the hospital. i don't know if the role she defines is an emo romantic role or what the issue is. 
i am not physically violent. i am mischevious. i could not remember the chair incident until she reminded me.
this was years ago. she had been on WOW for a very long time. after asking and getting denied and rejected, i reached for the power supply and she slapped my hand away. i then grabbed the back of her roller chair and attempted to pull her away from the pc. the chair accidently tipped over, and i tried to guide it to the ground. her arms and legs flailed, and i couldn't resist laughing, hoping she would laugh with me.
ok, maybe it was wrong, and i'm sure embarrassing for her, but it was not abuse in the way of hurting her with intent. i was being forceful, was that wrong? i think every thing she said could be explained as something like that, it's a matter of how she filters my actions.
for example, tonight. i toss her on the bed, pounce on her and tickle her, then flip her over and spank her butt. i then jump up and with my hands on my hips, grin and ask her if she liked that.
she stood rubbing her butt, with a combined expression of ruefulness, confusion, and subdued pleasure.
so...how is that to be taken? am i playful, and playing a little rough? or am i a physically abusive tormentor that should be locked up so my wife and child are safe from my depredations?


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## turnera

Leave him now. If you don't, your daughter will grow up to marry an abuser.

bearded, your description in no way compares to her husband's anger and hatred and physical abuse. I doubt you have ever tried to choke your wife.


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## beardedinlair

turnera, thank you. i am her husband.
i am not an abuser and it astounds me that she interprets my actions in such a way. i don't hate her, i love her. the only thing i can think is she is threatened, as a general rule of her life, and she views my playful side as a threat. sometimes. i assure you, our daughter is not threatened, and is in fact a strong confident intelligent little girl.
but you are almost right. if she doesn't leave me, our daughter might grow up to marry a tickler.
smiley theatre: Tickle Torture
"mrs. harmonia, tell us again, you poor dear, how your husband attacked you."
she twists the tear soaked handkerchief in her hands. "he tickled me. mercilessly." she put her head down and closed her eyes and whispered, "i'm sure i brought it on myself. it was my fault for provoking him."
:scratchhead:"why did you never leave?"
ray:"he threatened me." she looked up, stoically, almost defiantly, "he said he would find me and tickle me again." a tear tracked down her soft cheek. "he said...he would tickle me till i pee my pants."


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## turnera

Oh, did not realize that's what you were saying. Well, it's always good to have both parties present.

So, did you slap her?

Did you stand in front of a door when she wanted to leave?

Did you put her in a choke hold?

Have you thrown chairs across a room?

Did you jump on the hood of her car as she tried to leave?

Did you take apart a door because she locked you out of the room?

Did you call her C*nt? (I would leave my husband for that very reason alone. Men do NOT have an equivalent for the level of degradation that imposes on a woman.)


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## beardedinlair

.


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## harmonia

I posted on this forum looking for advice not to listen to him come up with lies and excuses for his behavior. Shameful.


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## beardedinlair

i have upset my wife by defending my actions of the past. i have removed the offending post.
the definition of abuse is defined by the victim. if she feels intimidated or afraid of things i have done in the past, then there is no excuse for my actions and it is my responsibility to curtail these actions.
i will not resist anything she wants to do. if she wants to leave, if she wants to stay, if she wants me to fully support her from a distance or in the same household.
i have no fight or defiance left in me, i am bone tired.
it has been made clear to me that we are getting evicted due to my attitude toward the landlord. i was wrong to attempt to resist her attempts to inspect us without any kind of notice. by threatening legal action in regards to her wanting to look in our house i made her so angry she served us a 30 day notice. 
i am so tired and sad. i think i will get some counseling for myself before i deem myself fit for any kind of exposure to other humans.


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## HappyHer

beardedlair, it's illegal for a landlord to attempt inspection without due notice and I doubt the eviction will stand unless you were abusive towards her. Get an attorney. Contact your fair housing or other community service if you can't afford one. Either way, you would have to have a court hearing to decide the eviction, the Thirty Day Notice is not sufficient unless it's signed by a judge. 

Thank you for agreeing to get into counseling. Whether your wife stays or leaves, you are taking steps to improve yourself and we can all use some improvement from time to time.

harmonia, do what you need to do. We are here for you and you are welcome to post anytime you want. Perhaps you can start another thread that's just for you?

Either way, it sounds as if you are both under some major stress. I hope you are both able to get a breather and just catch your breath for a moment or two.


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## beardedinlair

regarding evictions, as i understand from what i've read, when the eviction is served it goes on a credit report. if i win the case, the eviction still stands on the report. and what would i really win? the right to stay? 
i don't want to be blacklisted and so the landlord has the power in spite of legality. i submit.
as for harmonia crying abuse, i can stop fighting on that regard as well. i'm very tired of fighting. i don't think i can agree to malicious intent. i never meant to hurt her, or anyone for that matter. it destroys a bit of my soul to think that she might believe that. regarding the chair, she says i, in anger knocked her over and stood over her laughing. i am trying to say it was an accident, i was not trying to hurt her, but in retrospect and understanding i see it was wrong of me to interfere with her will, with what she wanted to do. i should not have tried to forcefully take her away from her game. i suppose that goes true for all the other incidents between us. my actions are my own, and i cannot claim response, or playfulness. i had no idea she was so terrified of me for ten years or what a monster i was.
my confidence is shattered, and i am depressed.
i submit.


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## HappyHer

A failed eviction is not going to show on your credit report. Yes, you would win the right to stay and move out on your own terms, the right to not have an eviction show up in your records, and the peace of mind that you stood up for yourself and your family.

Certainly move out as it sounds like an unpleasant situation with that landlady, but do it on your own terms and within the bounds of the law. Blacklisted? You would be if an eviction went through. It was mentioned that you were military and it is not serving you well to start to act like a victim now.

I know you are depressed and see that you have come to begin to understand where your wife is truly coming from and some of the mistakes that have been made along the way. That truly is a good thing because it means you can start to move forward with clarity. Make those calls to get into counseling. 

From the sounds of it your wife is willing to work on the marriage, although a little confused as well. But that gives you the opportunity to create something with her that you are both happier with. 

I have faith that you can begin again if you have the commitment and dedication to learning healthier ways of expressing yourself towards your wife and in front of your daughter, and that your wife is also able to be supportive of that and make some due changes as well. But that's NOT up for you to determine. Allow her to make her own decisions and you focus on YOU.

Back off the physical stuff as well until you are quite sure what is absolutely welcomed by your wife.

It's also time to start to make things right with your daughter. She should NEVER hear either of you fighting the way you have in front of her, it's unbecoming of parents to set that sort of example. Apologize to her and commit yourself to talking in low voices and away from her if you need to discuss any issues.


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## beardedinlair

happyher, you are very intelligent and give good advice.
but i gotta tell you, whenever i feel the spark of my anger rise at the injustice and pure wrongness of it, i simultaneously recognize the ultimate futility of it.
all i care about is the safety and security of my family. and if i resist in any way there is a good chance i create harm. in this case i must swallow my pride and accept what she is saying even if i think it is all based on a lie, or at best delusion. i have no chance of convincing this woman she is mistaken, cause it is simply how she feels. can't argue logic with feelings can i? even though i think she is lying i must accept she sees it as reality. i am sure there is no doubt in her heart she is doing the right thing.
so, i submit. i submit and accept. 
i speak of the landlord, of course.
"Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man."
i am the one who prompted harmonia to post here initially, and when i read her post i was simply astounded. i do not recognize the stranger she describes, he is purely a beast. how must she feel? having to tolerate this animal for so many years. i grieve.
if i am that out of control animal, consider me a tamed dog following at the heel waiting for a chance to lick the boot now.


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## turnera

No, you can't argue feelings. 

You CAN discuss the actions that created the feelings, so that you can understand what SHE saw, and see if you need to change. You can also discuss what YOU saw and did, to see if she can understand you. As in all things, it is communication that repairs.

That said, I have read posts in abuse forums for years and years, and I will tell you that there is a pattern of writing to those who are accused of abuse, and you very much so fit that pattern. I'm not saying you are, but you do write with the exact same flowery, blame-shifting/blame-accepting-victim speak that I see over and over again. So I would ask you, if you do want to save your marriage, to step back and try to look at this realistically, instead of just lathering on all the 'I am beaten,' 'I'm just a monster,' 'I submit' crap. No one buys it. If you're abusive, you're abusive, and you will continue to play your games. If you're not, you discuss what really happened and try to get some understanding on it, so you can learn and grow; you don't play the victim card.

If you want to save the marriage, find a good marriage counselor.


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## beardedinlair

i was laying it on a bit obvious, yes? i find it hard to accept the submissive role, or the tormentor one for that matter. i didn't really mean anyone to buy it.
but, if the boy cries wolf, you gotta check, right? just in case. i am no wolf. nor a sheep. i think sometimes she sees me as a wolf. and i think sometimes she is not entirely displeased with that notion. but who can say? it is her feelings, and they are hers. i just do the best i can.
"He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man…. "
it is true i am saddened by all this. to the point of weariness and depression.
and i am willing to go to counseling, i have in the past. we have in the past.
and i do want to say, these forums have helped us considerably. i, at the very least, have a better understanding of how she sees the world, how she wants the world to be.


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## HappyHer

Thank you beardedlair. So, talk to the landlady, tell her you agree and that you'll move out without a fuss, but that you would like for her to assure you of a good review as you are complying now. What she did is TOTALLY illegal. a 24 hour notice is REQUIRED. You may not have handled her mistake appropriately, but to just tuck your tail and run will not assure your good future and it won't serve others that will fall prey to illegal procedures from this same landlady in the future either.

Please let us know when you are able to get into counseling and how it goes for you.


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## turnera

harmonia said:


> I posted on this forum looking for advice not to listen to him come up with lies and excuses for his behavior. Shameful.


 harmonia, go to the library and get the book Why Does He Do That? by Bancroft. Read it, and report back on if your husband truly fits the bill.

He may just fall into the gray area of resorting to tactics when you don't own up to your own 50%. Reading that book will help you with clarity.

He is saying he'll go to marriage counseling. Take him up on it.


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## confusedwantingmore

harmonia said:


> The physical struggles usually start from him trying to prevent me from going out the door. He will bodily block me from leaving and I can't get past him. He got me in a choke hold at the door once. He has slapped me in the face. Once he got angry and knocked the chair I was sitting in backwards onto the floor and I fell pretty hard.
> 
> He has also thrown chairs and other objects across the room. He once jumped onto the hood of our car as i was pulling out to try to prevent me from leaving. Several times he has taken apart doors to get to me when I locked myself in a room to get away from him.
> 
> The verbal abuse involves mostly name calling and can be quite degrading. C*nt, b*tch, crazy. He has told me I don't deserve him, that I'm not "on is level", not as smart as him, not his equal and he has to be my daddy. He says I have daddy issues all the time and that the problems in our relationship are all my fault or in my head. He has told me I couldn't survive without him. He also says I have mental problems.
> 
> Our daughter witnesses some of these exchanges which really disturbs me. He will say he is leaving us in front of her and she will cry and beg him to stay. I know some serious changes need to be made or we need to end it because this isn't healthy for anyone.


Get out. Make a plan and then leave. This sounds like my father, who abused me BTW. Now I am in a less than ideal relationship and have two kids with a man that is a lot like my father. He tells me I have "daddy issues" also. It hurts a lot when he says that, more so than any other name he has called me. Maybe because I have a daughter that I want better for...


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