# Drawing The Line When Helping Family



## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

I have been on here before and have explained my situation in past posts. Please feel free to look them up to get some background.

My SIL is living on her own for the first time and she is pushing 50. She always lived with her parents and now that they are deceased. She swears to never get married and go to the grave a virgin. She inherited the money from the sale of her parents home and is now waiting on settlement on a condo in February. Since October, she has been without a job. She is collecting unemployment and the money from her parents estate will cover the whole cost of the condo (no mortgage). Right now, she is complaining (she is an expert at it) about not being able to find a job within her salary range. Me and DH tell her that she never will, for being a new hire anywhere will probably start lower than what she is use to. For some reason, she is taking this like it is no big deal. She thinks that she still has mommy and daddy around to take care of things if she does not find a job before her unemployment runs out. I do not understand this, for when I told her she has to lower her salary requirements before she gets to the point of only having 1-2 unemployment checks left, she said "I do not want to think about that right now or I will end up getting sick or a migraine". I was like well, that's all fine and dandy but don't be knocking on me and my DH's door when your out on the street (I thought this to myself and did not vocalize it to her even though I was tempted).

It has not happened yet, but, I am preparing myself. I know that if she does not find a job before her unemployment runs out, DH is, of course, going to want to help her. I told him "We are not financially responsible for her. She should think about becoming a nun and joining a convent if she wants a stress-free life. Everyone goes through hard times and this is her time to learn on her own". I also told him that her decision to not even apply to jobs lower than her last jobs' salary is not our problem!!!! Her decision should not effect our standard of living and I will be damned if you will allow it to by wanting to help her financially. Heck, she got all of the money from the parents estate and DH didn't see a dime. 

DH told me the other day "If I wasn't married, I'd help her and even move in with her to help her out". My sarcastic response was "I can make that happen with no problem". Any/all advice is appreciated!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

""I do not want to think about that right now or I will end up getting sick or a migraine"."

Your sil sounds like a cross between Scarlett O'Hara and Blanche Dubois (I've always relied on the kindness of strangers (family).

Your husband needs to realize that you are his immediate family and not his sister. It is commendable that he wants to look out for her but that could turn into a full-time job. You are his priority.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Your SIL needs to learn to fend for herself. Your husband should not help in this case, since her problems ARE within her control. You can and should be firm about not lending or giving her any money. Moral support, advice, and encouragement are fine - and apparently necessary for her - even if she doesn't respond to it now. Eventually, she may. As you said: My sarcastic response was "I can make that happen with no problem" is a boundary you should keep if necessary.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Your H needs to realize that you are his immediate family. As he doesn't seem to understand that, you'll have to decide what you're going to accept. 
No financial help should be provided to your SIL especially as she is too lazy to work. Don't enable her behavior.

Do you want to leave your H? His comment about moving in with her wasn't very nice. Can you tell him how that made you feel?

Is the SIL issue the only problem in your marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Your husband needs to realize that you are his immediate family and not his sister. You are his priority.


We have gone through this conversation many a times and I know that if it came down between me and his sister, I'd lose every time. Sad but true. I also know that when his sister was unemployed years ago and still living with the parents, DH paid her medical insurance premium for like 2-3 years!!! This happened when I was not even in the picture, so, why would this be a concern for me? Because when past circumstances arise again, past behaviors usually follow.

If I told my DH that I am his immediate family and not his sister, he would go off like a bomb! She is blood, I am not. I am easily disposable whereas he would never think of abandoning her.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

STORMCHASERShe is blood said:


> :frown2: I don't think you should be with a man who thinks of you this way. By all means he should care about his sister's well-being, but he should discuss any decisions about how to help her with you.
> 
> It's not nice for you to feel disposable. Your H is 100% wrong if this is how he sees things. Is it possible that he feels backed into a corner and says things like this out of anger, without really meaning them? Do you have children?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Omego said:


> Do you want to leave your H? His comment about moving in with her wasn't very nice. Can you tell him how that made you feel?
> 
> Is the SIL issue the only problem in your marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I do not want to leave. Neither does he but he would if an ultimatum was presented to him (as in "its either me or your sister"). I would never do that though. I have been more than accommodating when it comes to her. DH spends every Friday night to see her and it is also convenient because she lives closer to his workplace than we do. He goes straight to work on Saturdays which also saves on gas. He also spends every last weekend of the month with her and during this time, it allow them to get together with the younger brother as well.

His comment was the truth and to him, he states it very abruptly. It is the truth, for if he wasn't married, he would be single and able to do as he wishes which included helping with his sister's situation. Yes, I felt hurt but then that is when I said "I can make that happen with no problem".

We have other little arguments and issues that are still not being addressed. Something as simple as staying up late with me to watch a movie or whatever is an issue for him, but, when he is with his sister and has to go to work the next day, he is up until midnight? Ok, but you can't stay up and spend time with your wife in the same manner? Also when he is home, he does not want to do anything. I guess because this is his escape and all he wants to do is relax. He will help his sister with the laundry and food shopping but the neighbors always see me as the one carrying all the groceries into the house. Go figure?

The SIL problem is the major problem with our arguments. I am not "needy" like she is but I am human. DH sees that I can take care of myself and house chores, bills, etc. so I guess he is drawn more towards her so he can feel, hmmm, needed? Useful? I give him those opportunities for Christ sake!!! He sees her every freakin' Friday and is with her ever last weekend of the month! What else can I do?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm sorry, but I'd draw the line with the weekly sleepovers and the monthly weekend thing. I mean, what the bloody hell? He's acting more like her husband than yours.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> I'm sorry, but I'd draw the line with the weekly sleepovers and the monthly weekend thing. I mean, what the bloody hell? He's acting more like her husband than yours.


Right? I'm thinking she doesn't have to get married because she has op's hb. I would not live with a situation like that..... it's just plain creepy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

STORMCHASER said:


> No, I do not want to leave. Neither does he but he would if an ultimatum was presented to him (as in "its either me or your sister"). I would never do that though.
> 
> Something as simple as staying up late with me to watch a movie or whatever is an issue for him, but, when he is with his sister and has to go to work the next day, he is up until midnight? ... He will help his sister with the laundry and food shopping but the neighbors always see me as the one carrying all the groceries into the house.
> 
> The SIL problem is the major problem with our arguments. ... What else can I do?


From ^^this^^ I'm assuming you just need to vent. You don't want to leave and you don't want to force him to choose.

You can remain resentful or just accept this situation for what it is. Your husband isn't going to change. If you stay, you'll have to do the changing.

Sorry I can't offer better advice, but arguing again and again about the same issue isn't solving the problem. I'd suggest you stop arguing about it because it's not changing anything.


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

Many people have this problem where they don't realize their spouse should come before their blood relatives. Of course this should not be the case when the spouse tries to keep you from relatives, but that is another issue.

You need to stand your ground on this. I can understand staying once a month if she lives a ways away out of town, but sounds like this is not the case here. Your husband needs to understand he has to commit to your relationship first and his sister second. 

I've been thru it with my wife before, she finally got tired of her family treating her like crap and no longer allows them to use her nor goes out of her way for them. Hopefully your husband will come to his senses too.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

STORMCHASER said:


> I am not "needy" like she is but I am human. DH sees that I can take care of myself and house chores, bills, etc. so I guess he is drawn more towards her so he can feel, hmmm, needed? Useful? I give him those opportunities for Christ sake!!! He sees her every freakin' Friday and is with her ever last weekend of the month! What else can I do?


Tell him that you would like him to show the same empathy towards you that he shows towards his sister. Tell him flat out. Tell him you feel like second best. Tell him you don't feel secure in the relationship and that this situation is really bothering you.

Rest assured that the SIL is enjoying the attention and knows that she is causing problems between you.

Don't make it about her, however, make the discussion about YOUR feelings. Don't put him in a situation where he feels he has to defend her.

As the other posters have said, his behavior is totally abnormal. I don't think you should accept it anymore. If he wants to see her on Friday nights from time to time, he can also invite you or not go.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

STORMCHASER said:


> DH told me the other day "If I wasn't married, I'd help her and even move in with her to help her out". My sarcastic response was "I can make that happen with no problem". Any/all advice is appreciated! [/SIZE]


Make sure that you can stick to this boundary. Your husband is incline to sacrifice his marriage. He is giving you notice by making you the "bad guy" by saying aloud his thoughts. 

I've been in his shoes before with my younger brother. I had to be very tough with my brother as his demands for money increased. Entitled siblings like your sister-in-law and my brother cannot be appeased with temporary help. They demand a lifetime support. Be ready for the worst scenario to happen.

Really sorry you are here. It's a very tough situation.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm thinking that she has no choice in the marriage arena. What man wants a 50 year old virgin (so, she says)? One whose brother regularly spends the night with her? It's just an ugly impression.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I have brothers, I love them very much and we are all very close. None of them have sleepovers at my house. I would already be drawing a line at that. 
All of us would help each other if someone truly needed it but you can't enable people to make bad choices. It's not helping, it's hurting. If you told him that by constantly rescuing her from herself he is actually helping to keep her dependent and stuck, would he listen? 

If he feels a need to help her, he can go over her resume with her to tweak it, keep a look out for jobs she would qualify for, help her move a big piece of furniture every now and then. Normal sibling stuff. His priority should be you. 

You could at least try to come to some kind of compromise. No money, I'd want to cut it down to the once a month visit and stop the Fridays too but he seems like he's telling you to either take it as is or leave it and not leaving much room for your feelings in it all. 

You can also try implementing this into your marriage. 
The Policy of Joint Agreement
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> From ^^this^^ I'm assuming you just need to vent. You don't want to leave and you don't want to force him to choose.
> 
> You can remain resentful or just accept this situation for what it is. Your husband isn't going to change. If you stay, you'll have to do the changing.
> 
> Sorry I can't offer better advice, but arguing again and again about the same issue isn't solving the problem. I'd suggest you stop arguing about it because it's not changing anything.


After reading all of your posts and advice, I have no argument with any of them. Both of his parents died within a year so it has been hard on him and the siblings. I do understand this but when it comes to taking advantage of your wife's good nature and feelings, it becomes evil. While all of this was going on, it was both of our ideas that he spend Friday nights over there because it saves "US" money on gas when he goes to work on Saturdays. It was also "OUR" idea that he spends every last weekend with her so he can also see other family members. The line gets crossed when he questions me when I want him to come home on a Friday when he is suppose to be going over to SIL's. I tried the "Because you work so much it would be nice to be together, etc" approach but it didn't work. So now my response was "I am your wife, I do not need a reason."

Family is everything and understandably so. I do not disagree. His sister was the one who tried to talk him out of marrying me. It didn't work. So, with that said, I am suppose to let that go and like her or even try to have a "normal" SIL relationship with her? Not going to happen!! DH knows this, so, he tells me that if I choose not to have a relationship with her, it's not his problem and therefore, I am the one alienating myself from the "family dynamic". With this being said, I am just her SIL in title only. I am cordial but that's it. 

And to answer an earlier question out there about children, no, we do not have any (actually, thank God or I'd be alone raising that child with a part-time dad around).


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

So your SIL tried to talk him out of marrying you? Not surprised. She's manipulating him and trying to sabotage your marriage.

Anyway, it is what it is. You can't change her or him. Decide what you're going to put up with. 

From what I understand, he would welcome your presence on the Friday and weekend correct? He said you were the one alienating yourself. In this case, you should go and be pleasant to the SIL. Let her show her true colors in front of your H.

If miraculously she changes and behaves civilly, it's a win win.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Omego said:


> Tell him that you would like him to show the same empathy towards you that he shows towards his sister. Tell him flat out. Tell him you feel like second best. Tell him you don't feel secure in the relationship and that this situation is really bothering you.
> 
> Rest assured that the SIL is enjoying the attention and knows that she is causing problems between you.
> 
> ...


I did what you suggested and it blew up in my face. I mentioned the empathy and feeling 2nd and how the situation is really bothering me. His response was that I am being selfish while his sister is going through a crisis..blah blah blah! I did not make it about her and mentioned I feel 2nd over everything. He is the one who brought up his sister. Also, his response about the situation bothering me was him telling me to bad, that this is his sister and will help anyway he can and I will not change that.

About the Friday night thing. The whole reason he stays over is to save us money on gas. His commute is around 100+ miles a day. If he stays there, it kills 2 birds with one stone. Me driving myself to his sisters to stay overnight every Friday defeats the purpose of saving on gas.

I did, however, mention to him again that I will stick to my guns and will contemplate divorce if he even thinks of helping her out financially in any way, shape or form.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How severe are your financial problems?


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> How severe are your financial problems?


And this has to do with.....?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You've been insistent from the get-go that husband not help her financially. If you're having financial difficulties and he goes ahead and helps her, you could be in a pickle. In that case it would be wise to start setting a little aside for a lawyer.


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> You've been insistent from the get-go that husband not help her financially. If you're having financial difficulties and he goes ahead and helps her, you could be in a pickle. In that case it would be wise to start setting a little aside for a lawyer.


Way ahead of you!

I thought when you asked me that you were referring to the gas $$ we save on his spending the night Friday's -vs- coming home and leaving again to take another 100+ mile round trip.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

STORMCHASER said:


> I have been on here before and have explained my situation in past posts. Please feel free to look them up to get some background.
> 
> My SIL is living on her own for the first time and she is pushing 50. She always lived with her parents and now that they are deceased. She swears to never get married and go to the grave a virgin. She inherited the money from the sale of her parents home and is now waiting on settlement on a condo in February. Since October, she has been without a job. She is collecting unemployment and the money from her parents estate will cover the whole cost of the condo (no mortgage). Right now, she is complaining (she is an expert at it) about not being able to find a job within her salary range. Me and DH tell her that she never will, for being a new hire anywhere will probably start lower than what she is use to. For some reason, she is taking this like it is no big deal. She thinks that she still has mommy and daddy around to take care of things if she does not find a job before her unemployment runs out. I do not understand this, for when I told her she has to lower her salary requirements before she gets to the point of only having 1-2 unemployment checks left, she said "I do not want to think about that right now or I will end up getting sick or a migraine". I was like well, that's all fine and dandy but don't be knocking on me and my DH's door when your out on the street (I thought this to myself and did not vocalize it to her even though I was tempted).
> 
> ...


I like your response to DH.
Just make your concerns known (kindly) to your husband. That way, if the time comes around and she really doesn't find a job, your husband will not be surprised when you refuse to become financially responsible for her.


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> I like your response to DH.
> Just make your concerns known (kindly) to your husband. That way, if the time comes around and she really doesn't find a job, your husband will not be surprised* when you refuse to become financially responsible for her*.


I am trying to understand exactly what you mean here. Do you mean me, personally, refuse to become financially responsible? If he chooses to help her financially, he is also making the decision that I do also, for our finances are joint.

Also, as I mentioned in post #18 (I believe), I repeated myself to make it well known that if he financially helps her out in any way, shape or form, a divorce will likely follow.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

STORMCHASER said:


> If he chooses to help her financially, he is also making the decision that I do also, for our finances are joint.


Forgive me if this has been discussed, but is there any chance of separating your finances to make him see that you mean business?

Can you guys sit down and discuss, rationally, making up a budget for your bills, have a joint account solely for bill paying, then keep your own incomes in separate accounts for both of you? That might make him see just how much he (both of you ) are spending on his sister.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

STORMCHASER said:


> I did what you suggested and it blew up in my face. I mentioned the empathy and feeling 2nd and how the situation is really bothering me. His response was that I am being selfish while his sister is going through a crisis..blah blah blah! I did not make it about her and mentioned I feel 2nd over everything. He is the one who brought up his sister. Also, his response about the situation bothering me was him telling me to bad, that this is his sister and will help anyway he can and I will not change that.
> 
> About the Friday night thing. The whole reason he stays over is to save us money on gas. His commute is around 100+ miles a day. If he stays there, it kills 2 birds with one stone. Me driving myself to his sisters to stay overnight every Friday defeats the purpose of saving on gas.
> 
> I did, however, mention to him again that I will stick to my guns and will contemplate divorce if he even thinks of helping her out financially in any way, shape or form.


Ok so he refuses to understand your feelings. How did he react when you said no to the financial issue? If he respects this boundary will you be able to accept the rest?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mike6211 (Jan 18, 2013)

Consider Family Constellations (google it) therapy.

There is something here coming down the generations that has your H and SIL in its grip. The effects on your marriage aren't that different from a slow-burn EA.

Appealing to reason isn't going to work here. Just ask yourself this: when entitled-princess-SIL runs out of cash, what WILL happen? From the tenor of this thread, you know, I know, and everyone reading this thread knows in their heart of hearts which way the cat (your H) is going to jump.

Remember - your H and SIL are in the grip of something that reason and willpower cannot overcome.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You need to start going to a therapist. Meaning YOU, not you and your H. What's missing here are YOUR boundaries and subsequent consequences that are enacted when he walks all over you like this. And you need a professional's help to come up with valid boundaries/consequences; you're not going to be able to set this in motion by yourself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

STORMCHASER said:


> If he chooses to help her financially, he is also making the decision that I do also, for our finances are joint.


This is where the boundaries/consequences come in. Such as "50% of our income is MY income and, as such, I refuse to allow you to use any of my half to give to your sister. When you do give her money, I am going to rearrange our finances so that my 50% is not affected."

One example I've seen work well is to tell him (and then follow through) that for every dollar he gives her, you will be taking an additional dollar out of the family finances and putting it in a savings account of your own.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

STORMCHASER said:


> I am trying to understand exactly what you mean here. Do you mean me, personally, refuse to become financially responsible? If he chooses to help her financially, he is also making the decision that I do also, for our finances are joint.
> 
> Also, as I mentioned in post #18 (I believe), I repeated myself to make it well known that if he financially helps her out in any way, shape or form, a divorce will likely follow.


I meant financially responsible as in both of you (him and you), not only you.


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Omego said:


> Ok so he refuses to understand your feelings. How did he react when you said no to the financial issue? If he respects this boundary will you be able to accept the rest?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Once he got home tonight, we sat down and I tried to have another discussion with him about this. He told me that he knows that he cannot afford to help her financially. I said that I am glad that we are at least on the same page with this FINALLY. Again, this is what he is saying now, but, if it gets to the point of her not having a job by the time unemployment runs out, I am sure we are going to re-visit this discussion.

In the meantime, when he goes over there this Friday, he told me he is going to tell her to get all of her bills together so they can go over them and figure out a budget. This, of course, is not going to be very accurate because her bills will be less once she purchases her condo in February. This is for HIS piece of mind because she is not making any sense. She says she cannot live on less that "such and such" per hour but yet my DH made only a couple dollars more per hour than her when I was unemployed for over a year and we made it work (and we have 3 times more bills than she does!!).



turnera said:


> This is where the boundaries/consequences come in. Such as "50% of our income is MY income and, as such, I refuse to allow you to use any of my half to give to your sister. When you do give her money, I am going to rearrange our finances so that my 50% is not affected."
> 
> One example I've seen work well is to tell him (and then follow through) that for every dollar he gives her, you will be taking an additional dollar out of the family finances and putting it in a savings account of your own.


If, for some reason, he goes back on his word, this will be the next step!


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Hello everyone. It has been a while since I have posted but I have been on here once in a while to read some other threads. I did not see it necessary to start another thread since I am still in the same boat (somewhat) and the current situation in-hand goes with what has been said in this thread so far. This thread is a little over a year but wanted to update, in addition, get more input.

I am finally seeing some improvement but on other topics, not so much. On the "improved side", SIL found a job so the financial issue is no longer on the table. Also, I told DH again that I am not happy and things need to change or this marriage is over. I cannot live like this anymore nor should anyone. He came out bluntly and told me that he does not like the way I talk about his sister (calling her lazy which even her own mother called her, selfish, inpatient and spoiled). When I do this he thinks very low of me and makes him want to defend her on every level. This is also a main reason as to why he doesn't want to be here because of all the negative things I see in her. I put myself in his situation (as far as if he was bad mouthing my sister) and I can understand his frustration. I would probably feel the same way. So I told him that I will try to stop talking negatively about her but if something is bothering me, he is going to hear of it! We have been doing this for about 2-3 weeks now and things are starting to get better. 

I also told him that staying overnight at her place on Friday's so we can save on gas for him to go to work on Saturday's is going to stop. The money we save on gas due to his sister living closer to his workplace is *NOT* worth the possibility of the marriage going to hell. He agreed and now we have planned to do our food shopping when he gets home on Friday nights. His way of thinking is if we do not have anything planned, that it is ok for him to leave me here alone with our furkids (2 dogs) and see his sister. I told him no, that it doesn't matter what we are doing as long as we are together. With that said, his sister happened to ask *HIM*, not *US*, if he would like to go with her next Saturday while she looks for a new car. He said yes without even asking me first. I got on him like flies on poop and told him he needs to stop living and acting like he is single. It is just wrong and disrespectful. After he apologized, I told him that he was going to call his sister and tell her that she is going to have company, for I am going with you. He called her and of course, all she kept saying is "I thought only "CJ" was going". I got on the phone at that point and told her straight out "no, if I want to come along or be with my husband, whether it be with you or someone else, it's not your decision". All she said was "I know" which she is famous for saying all the damn time. I then told her "No, you don't know or you would have invited us both, not just your brother". She had nothing to say after that.

I'm sorry for the long post but wanted to update you on some of the so-called progress I am trying to make. DH told me he is willing to meet me half way so we shall see how this works out. In any event, I am still wondering why all this has to be so freakin' hard and exhausting. You say what you mean and mean what you say. One hand washes the other. Why can't it be that simple?

In the meantime, he still spends every last weekend of the month over there so he can help her with stuff in her new condo and also see his brother. If I ever want to go over there anytime during his visit on that weekend, be sure I will stopping by.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It sounds to me like your sister in law thinks of your husband kind of like HER husband.


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## STORMCHASER (Dec 13, 2011)

Livvie said:


> It sounds to me like your sister in law thinks of your husband kind of like HER husband.


It does sound like it doesn't it? It all goes in one ear and out the other so I gave up on that. DH doesn't help because when she calls, he answers (even if we are eating dinner or watching a movie) but if I give him heck for it he gets all defensive.

Many users on this website have honestly confessed that they stay in the marriage due to finances and I am one of them. I am trying to do what I can without becoming a doormat but it seems inevitable at times :crying:


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