# I don't have a clue what my wife is thinking



## SuchConfusion (Apr 8, 2017)

She separated from me. It's been 6 weeks. She says her hope is reconciliation. We haven't communicated at all beyond logistics. I desperately want to talk. She says she's not healed. She has our child. Initially she was scared to let me keep her by myself. Then she let me have her twice last week, one an overnight visit with my family. Then after that, I have not seen or heard from my child at all for a week now. However, we do have an arrangement for me to have extended time a week from now.

I am so lost. She eases for a few days. Now I'm shut down again but we already have future plans for me with the child. If I contact her to ask about it, I violate her need for space and she will be done with me. And as I said, she doesn't want to talk to me at all until she heals. So I am literally clueless right now.

There are so many options going on in my head:
1. This is a test to see if I will lose my temper (which is one of her issues) or if I am genuinely changing by sitting back and taking it.
2. She hates me and is just doing this because she has the power now and she likes it.
3. It's not a test, but it's what she would consider a taste of my own medicine.
4. She has no intention of trying to change or reconcile and is just screwing with me.
5. She is a genuinely lost soul who has no idea what she's doing and her problem is bigger than me.
6. She knows I am committed to change and reconciliation and will wait for her, and I have already generally changed (and proven it), so why should she be in any hurry?

If anyone has similar experiences, please share with me. Or if you have insight to where we are right now, I'd love to hear it.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Did you cheat on her? 

If you have angry outbursts than she is right to separate from you until she knows you are a safe person to be around. Issues in the marriage cannot be resolved until you learn how to manage your anger.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

What is she healing from? Why has she left?

For now I would just make sure you have regular set times with your child set out so that you can be the best dad you can and dont need to contact her. 
Its really unreasonable of her to tell you you cant even contact her about the child. After all the child is yours as well. Maybe you need to get some legal advise about that.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It could be anything but with so little info I doubt anyone will guess.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

However, she has no right to keep you from seeing your child. It sounds like you are extremely weak and have given her total control over the entire situation. Why?


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

SuchConfusion said:


> 3. It's not a test, but* it's what she would consider a taste of my own medicine*.


This seems to imply that you've done something similar to her in the past. Could you elaborate on the bolded, please?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Please enlighten us on why she has separated from you.

Without that information I'm not sure how anyone can tell you what item(s) on your list may or may not be true. Only your wife ultimately knows the answer, so she really needs to be a grown up and discuss whatever the problem is so you don't have to be guessing. 

It's unreasonable for any couple that shares a child to have no contact. Especially early on while getting schedules figured out. If you are unreasonable and/or have angry/violent outbursts, then good luck...you may have blown all your chances of decent communication. Us ladies only take so much, and then we are done.


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## SuchConfusion (Apr 8, 2017)

Here's basically what's going on. The last 10 months have been unusually traumatic for me. Major home and work disruptions. I've been bullied and harassed by a co-worker. I've gotten very angry, bitter, negative, depressed, etc.. I do raise my voice, but it's often because I'm forced to be the disciplinarian with our child, because she treats our child like her best friend. I tried to run the household and make most of the decisions, and I was very self-centered with that. I have become emotionally distant and rarely communicate because I have struggled with the work pressures. I have yelled and gotten angry, but it is not all-consuming. I have never, however, abused or laid a hand on anyone.

She told me when she separated that I needed to seek help. I have done it, and then some, and it is documented and she knows about all of it. I have demonstrated in my interactions with our child that I can manage it. I have not lost my temper one time and I have rebonded with our child. And now she's taken that away for over a week now. And I don't know why.

There are two complications in the matter. I have been told that our child is running a guilt trip on her. My wife is being told that daddy wants to come home and she won't let me come home. And I promise you I have said nothing and did nothing to encourage that. Also, she says I was violating her request for space. I have been admittedly guilty of that, but often it is because I shared things that I thought were essential to family matters, and she didn't think they were. So now I've gone almost two weeks without contacting her except for one important issue.

Everybody notices that I have made the changes that were needed. My family does. My child does. My co-workers do. All the people I associate with at our church do. She says it's all fake and refuses to give me a chance to prove that it isn't. I know that I hurt her and tried to be domineering. But I have literally given up everything to prove that things can change. She has the house. She has the child. She has the money. I am living in a child's bedroom at the home of one of my church associates, and she has her entire family living within 5 miles of her. I have given it all up, and she still won't give me a break. And I refuse to give in and lose my temper over this entire issue because I know that God is telling me to be patient and fight. But now I feel like I've been taken advantage of.


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## SuchConfusion (Apr 8, 2017)

Another part that I guess needs to be said. I am of the opinion that this is not entirely my fault. My father-in-law even told me that she is not innocent in this. We have intimacy issues. Typical male desire/no female desire stuff. That alienated me and made me retreat more. However, she says she didn't want to be intimate with me because I wasn't there for her. We both think the other one started it, and I started to get very ugly and manipulative about it at the end. But she had also broken some promises and did a couple of things that I would consider cruel.

But I'd be willing to let all of that go if she would just freaking talk to me instead of shunning me. I'm ready to reprioritize things.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@SuchConfusion, 

It sounds to me like in the past you may have "made promises" of being different, being nicer, changing, etc. and finally after hearing empty promise after empty promise, she doesn't believe you. NOW you are saying you've given up everything and you've changed...but actions speak louder than words, and she's heard your words before! So she doesn't believe you. As of yet, you have not given her reason to believe you: you've got MAYBE two weeks of "leaving her alone" vs. how many YEARS of promising and breaking your promise. 

So I make a recommendation. Right now she will not hear a word you have to say, and honestly I would not tell her to listen to you either. Right now you need to have your ACTIONS match your words. Keep up with the counseling. Keep up with learning about her emotional needs and her love language but DO NOT BUG HER. Keep up with being open, honest, and sensitive. 

Regarding your child, it is not reasonable for her to keep the child from you. From a legal point of view, you have just as much "right" to the child as she does, and if nothing else it's reasonable to have 50/50 time with the child. However, my guess is that she views your "parenting" as abuse, and if she can prove in a court of law that you were emotionally or verbally abusive to the child, or if she can claim that she or the child are afraid of you because you "threaten" them...then she can go for a restraining order and you would be ordered to stay 500 feet away from them both!!

Thus I suggest that you let her know that you deeply miss your child and want to spend time, but that you are sensitive to her concerns. Then make arrangements to have some third party present during time with your child--so that you could say something like "I know you are worried about the way I've acted toward <child> but I do miss <child> very much and as his/her parent I do legally have a right to parenting time. So what I did, to help allay your worries, is I've arranged for BOB or SUE to be in the house while <child> spends time so <child> will be perfectly safe."


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## SuchConfusion (Apr 8, 2017)

Your points are well-taken. I believe you have a spiritual background, so maybe you'll understand. I did try to change, but I feel that I couldn't do it because I tried to do it myself by myself. I have held a grudge against God for some past wrongdoings in my life. Now I have accepted him into my life and I am letting him be in control. I know I've got this now because I have God, my friends, and my church community by my side and guiding me in my actions.

I suppose you are saying that by giving her total space, I am demonstrating through action and not words. I had thought through demonstrating humility by giving her everything, I was demonstrating through action, and I was getting frustrated with my lack of feedback. Does that not count for anything? And as for the rest, how can I prove to her that this is more than words if I can't meet with her to demonstrate it? Is space ALL I can do right now?

Right now I am committed to understanding her concerns, and I want to express that to her. I have even written a letter stating how I believe I understand how she feels, how I violated her expectations from our marriage, and specific instances that demonstrated how I violated her trust. I want to tell her that I know we can't go forward toward eventual reconciliation until I give up my selfishness, and that I am committed to seeing things from her perspective in the future. Do you think that would make a difference?


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## SuchConfusion (Apr 8, 2017)

Also, I don't understand how not getting to talk to my child on the telephone violates anything. Weeks ago we agreed that I would get a call every night. Now it's been 7 days with no calls. There's no chance of abuse there. Besides, I already know that she puts me on speaker so that she can hear everything I've said. And I've gotten no feedback that what I've been doing was abusive or manipulative. I don't see how I'm actually regressing when I'm doing everything to the best of my ability, except for the violations of space which ended well before the current freeze-out.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

For your own sake, you should seek some legal advice, at least as it relates to your child. It's not her call if you see your child or not. It's your kid, too.


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## Tillaan (Nov 24, 2016)

I read your first post and nothing else. 

ASAP SEE AN ATTORNEY! as in see one yesterday.

It's ok not to retain an attorney just yet but get your rights and options laid out by a professional. Heck go see three or four for varying opinions.

Prepare for this to be a divorce, do not wait! If it ends up working out great, but if you wait and screw this up you'll **** yourself. Unless you don't want your kid around then by all means continue to allow her to tell you how it's going to be. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

SuchConfusion said:


> She separated from me. It's been 6 weeks. She says her hope is reconciliation. We haven't communicated at all beyond logistics. I desperately want to talk. She says she's not healed. She has our child. Initially she was scared to let me keep her by myself. Then she let me have her twice last week, one an overnight visit with my family. Then after that, I have not seen or heard from my child at all for a week now. However, we do have an arrangement for me to have extended time a week from now.
> 
> I am so lost. She eases for a few days. Now I'm shut down again but we already have future plans for me with the child. If I contact her to ask about it, I violate her need for space and she will be done with me. And as I said, she doesn't want to talk to me at all until she heals. So I am literally clueless right now.
> 
> ...


7. She's not interested in contacting you unless she needs you to watch the kid so she can spend time with her boyfriend.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You need a lawyer, like, yesterday. Assert your parental rights. She's acting like she holds all the cards and you're letting her do it. That's on you.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You might want yo go online and check your phone bill just as a check. Only takes about 15 minutes.

How long has the separation been.

One thing. If you do the needy clingy it always pushes then farther away.

Move back in the home and let her go live with her parents.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Sorry, a few more questions-

How old are you, your wife, and your child?
How long have you been married?
Is your wife a member at the church you are attending?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Is your wife a christian? 
Can your pastor or someone else you both know in the church go and talk to her about this?

In my opinion there is no way you should have left the home. Most marriages cant be worked out by not seeing each other. She is being very cruel by not letting you see the child. How old is your child? Do they have their own phone? Cant you ring them anyway? She is free to stop contact for herself, but she is not free to hurt you and the child in this way. Can you father in law intervene about child access? 

If her own dad admits that there are faults on both sides that is telling.Maybe he needs to say that to her? Being deprived of sex when you were so stressed and unhappy would have made things far worse. Sex bonds and brings you together emotionally, and also relieves stress. 

Sounds like you need some good marriage counseling, but until she can admit to her part in all this its hard to see how that would help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

To me it looks like she has decided to no longer be in a relationship with you. But she won't file for divorce because you have made it far too easy for her to continue with what she is doing. As you said, she has the house, the money and the child. Why would she seek a divorce right now because she would lose some of all of that.

She might need her space. You might have been angry and hard to live with. But your marriage cannot be fixed if the two of you do not see each other. Like you said, how can she see that you have made improvements in yourself and taken her seriously if she does not see you.

It's been 6 weeks. I think it's time for you to act. What I would do is to write her (email maybe) saying that while you understand that she needs some space, what is going on is unacceptable to you. I would request what is called a structured separation. It's meant to help couples fix their problem while living apart. I'll post a structured separation document so you see what they are like. You would need to have a counselor/therapist help you with this. 


If your wife will not go along with a structured separation, it's time that you see a lawyer to at least set up agreements on things like custody, you should have your daughter 50% of the time. If your wife says she thinks this is wrong, then ask for a custody evaluation. The evaluators will figure out if it's true that you are a danger to your child. And they will also evaluate your wife to see if she is working on parental alienation. Right now she is keeping your child from you. She has no right whatsoever to do that.

Also you moved out of the family home. That was a bad move. So now you need to get a lawyer to help deal with that.

Why does she have all the money? 

Does she have a job? 

How much access do you have to money?

I'm sorry to say this, but you also need to do some snooping. There is a very good chance that she is cheating. Do you have access to her cell phone bill? If so look at it and see if there is any number that she is communicating with all the time.

She claims that you were controlling. But right now she is acting like the one who is controlling, kicking you out of the house, keeping control of money to include your income and not allowing you to see your child. Was she controlling like this before? For example did she control the money in your relationship? 

Is your paycheck going to an account right now that she has access to? Do you have access to that account? I ask because you said that she has all the money. Please explain why she has it all and you don't have any money?

To me, it sounds like you need an attorney. But if you want to try something to get her working with you, try suggesting the structured separation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Structured Separation – A temporary, time-limited separation conducted with clear and appropriate guidelines for the purpose of rebuilding the marriage. It is understood that at the end of the separation, one or both spouses might choose to end the marriage if the separation is not successful. It should be done under the leadership of someone like your MC with weekly MC Sessions.

1.	Length of separation: Set a time limit, preferably 3-6 months.

2.	No attorneys: It is agreed that neither spouse will file for divorce during the specified time frame. Both parties have to feel safe and that they will not be blind sided with a divorce filing.

3.	Terminating the contract: Decide whether one spouse can terminate the contract or they both have to come to agreement. But neither party will unilaterally terminate the contract and not inform the other.

4.	Living separately: Spouses decide which one will move out of the home. If at all possible the spouse with the larger income.


5.	Financial Decisions: All monies should be split in a fair and just manner. Pay all bills first. Then split what is left 50/50. If one parent has the child more, then figure out child support according to state guidelines and agree to pay this on an informal basis. 


No large purchases (over $200) or debt will be incurred without the express knowledge and agreement of the other spouse. No joint assets will be sold during the separation without the express knowledge and agreement of the other spouse. 

Some couples will decide to continue joint checking accounts, savings accounts, and payment of bills. Other couples will completely separate financial aspects of the relationship.... If there is any chance for [significant] disagreement, each person could take out half of the assets and open separate accounts.​
6.	Confidentiality: An agreement as to who is told and who isn’t. What are you both going to tell other people? Make sure your message is agreed upon by both of you. 

7.	MC Sessions: Agree to only talk about all the hard stuff and the bad stuff at weekly MC Sessions. Here is where you sort out problems that have occurred during the week as well as going back over the old stuff that got you to this point.”


8.	Quality Time to Be Spent Together 


1-2 weekly dates, just the two of you. Start with no more than 1 hour each. Expand the time as you both feel safe. 
1 weekly family date that includes your son. Again start with the 1 hour each and expand as time goes on.
Separate the irritation of your issues and daily life from your selves as former loves. You need a list of taboo subjects.. no talking about marital problems/issues, the affair, money, etc. Only positive fund things. The point is to do something that is fun and enjoyable, and to end before the good time gets ruined. ​
9.	Chat time: If you want schedule chat time to spend together during the week. The time and length of each call would be decided in advance. Again, the point is to eliminate opportunities for arguing.

10.	Administrative Time: Weekly schedule to talk: administrative calls, where you only talk about business or kids-stuff. The time and length of each call would be decided in advance. Again, the point is to eliminate opportunities for arguing


11.	Intimate relations. Whether or not to continue with the sexual relationship.

12.	Personal Growth Experiences: You each can include as many personal growth experiences as feasible, practical, and helpful. 

13.	Relationships and Involvements Outside of the Relationship: No social involvement, romantic, and sexual relationships outside of this relationship. 

14.	Child Custody/Time-Sharing. Establish a joint agreement who your son will be with on which days with as close to a 50/50 split as possible. How/where/when exchanges will take place.

15.	Motor Vehicles: Ownership and titles not be changed until a decision has been made about the future of the marriage.

16.	Privacy and Issues of Trust: 

•	Both must agree about what the children will be told about this separation and the marriage relationship.
•	Access to the others’ mail, email, voicemail, accounts, other’s places of residence, etc.
•	What is the level of transparency needed to help rebuild trust. This must be the same for both parties.
•	Are unannounced spontaneous visits allowed?
•	Is monitoring/tracking the other part allowed?​


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## SuchConfusion (Apr 8, 2017)

To answer a few more questions:

1. We are in our mid 40's. This is both our first marriage. We have been married for 12 years.

2. Our child is 8

3. We are regular church members at the same church. We often attend the same service. She is a very giving and religious person. I had issues with the church until I had my "come to Jesus" moment. We have the same friends. Our pastor has been giving me advice. She is getting her counseling from someone else within the church. I am also seeing an outside counselor.

4. I asked our pastor point blank last week if I should start pushing for joint custody or moving back into the house. He strongly advised against it. He said to give her complete space and see what happens. If she still doesn't make progress, we'll see. He says he'll know when it's time for me to give up. I'm assuming he has SOME type of access or inside information.

5. The first week of the separation, we were cordial and friendly. We even hugged and said "I love you." I even saw her and our child at her parents' house (I was still making arrangements to leave). After week one, she became cold as ice, and it hasn't stopped to this day.

6. I am certain of one thing--she is not cheating.

7. She told me she now sees signs and patterns that lead her to believe that I am no different than the other two men she had long-term relationships with before me.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

Your kid. Your house. Your friends. She's kicked you out and denied you access. Be prepared for you being blamed for everything...hell, you are being blamed for everything. 

See a lawyer. Separate finances. Are you the primary breadwinner? If so, cut off her money.

I don't believe there isn't someone else in her life. Someone's told her how to handle this, how to run this--"Operation Such Confusion."

See the standard evidence gathering post. Decide if you even want to be back with her. I wouldn't.

Oh, one other thing...get a voice activated recorder and carry it with you whenever you have an interaction with her. Can't rule out a false charge of domestic violence since she's laid the ground work with others about your "temper."


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> For your own sake, you should seek some legal advice, at least as it relates to your child. It's not her call if you see your child or not. It's your kid, too.


Absolutely this 

55


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuchConfusion said:


> To answer a few more questions:
> 
> 1. We are in our mid 40's. This is both our first marriage. We have been married for 12 years.
> 
> ...


 So your pastor doesn't think that you should be able to see your own child??? 
It seems that her counselor in the church has advised she separate. This is completely against The bible which says wives should not separate. 

My husbands ex was apparently advised the same thing by a 'Christian' counsellor, to have a time apart, they never recovered and she eventually found another man and ended the marriage. Its terrible advise. Their pastor told her that she had no reason to end the marriage but she did it anyway. 

You says she is a very giving person, she isn't acting like one. To prevent your child from seeing his own dad is appalling behaviour.iF there is one thing that makes me mad, its parents who use their own children as pawns to hurt their spouse.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

SuchConfusion said:


> To answer a few more questions:
> 
> 1. We are in our mid 40's. This is both our first marriage. We have been married for 12 years.
> 
> ...


Sounds like she is blaming you for why she isn't happy and why she doesn't want to be married to you. Going to your pastor is good for advice, but I wouldn't put your life on hold based on what your pastor thinks?  

It seems like from the little you have shared, that you don't like making decisions, or leading. You want others to lead you, including your wife and pastor. You have to start leading your own life, and not waiting on others to give you the next step to take. I don't know if your wife is cheating, but don't rule that out. 

Start to look after your own life, and you will find peace. As long as you sit by and wait for others to dictate the next move you should be making, you'll never ever be happy. Or at peace.

Sending you prayers that you find peace and the right path forward.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

If she isn't getting counseling from the pastor yet receiving counseling from someone within the church who exactly is that?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Well, you can lead a horse to water. Good effort TAM. 


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You seem to think that because you have made some changes, that she is supposed to come running back with open arms, ever so grateful for the amazing man you believe you have become. Its only been SIX WEEKS. If you have been short tempered (and therefore likely verbally abusive) for a long time, you created a home life that does not feel safe to her, and she isnt going to be able to get over it just like THAT. Six weeks is nothing, you cannot claim to be a changed person in that amount of time. Also, she likely shut down sexually for the same reasons. Women need to feel connection and trust with their partner. Did you ever show her any affection outside of the bedroom? 

That said, she isnt within rights to keep your child from you. You said you didnt hear from him for a week, did you reach out during that time? You do need to seek legal advise about this.


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## Stormguy2018 (Jul 11, 2018)

*Deidre* said:


> For your own sake, you should seek some legal advice, at least as it relates to your child. It's not her call if you see your child or not. It's your kid, too.


Exactly.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

SuchConfusion said:


> To answer a few more questions:
> 
> 1. We are in our mid 40's. This is both our first marriage. We have been married for 12 years.
> 
> ...


A pastor should not be in the middle of your marriage issues - that is NOT his job. You need a professional councilor advising you (and her by the way). 

Your wife may not be having a physical affair - but, I strongly suspect at least an emotional affair. 

Admittedly, you abused your wife and child and your wife has checked out of the marriage - and the damage may not be reparable and you need to accept that this is very likely. She is being supported by those at the church - and - you are not in good standing with the pastor or others involved at the Church - so they are trying to keep you apart from her. They are not your friends right now - and maybe rightfully so - emotional abuse is a horrible thing.

I think you need to lawyer up and keep getting help to determine why you would abuse your wife and child. No - work stress is NOT an excuse - non of what you described above is an excuse and you need to own up to it.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Forget about your pastor, you need a lawyer. Your pastor has already given you bad advice by giving her space. It's your house and your child. Whatever your marriage dynamics maybe, you are just shooting yourself in the foot by not asserting your legal rights.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

You have been given good advice. Several opinions. I'm feeling that there is something important that we don't yet know?

You joined in April, but are just now commenting?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

duplicate post


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

sunsetmist said:


> You have been given good advice. Several opinions. I'm feeling that there is something important that we don't yet know?
> 
> You joined in April, but are just now commenting?


April 2017, old thread


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I must pay better attention! Old thread...


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Zombie thread.


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