# New Member -- Similar Story



## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

My story is simple... I've been married for 21 years (not exactly happily) and have three great and healthy sons ages 11, 8 and 
5. When we first got married we both worked. I was very insecure and jealous of the fact she preferred to spend time with her friends and family over me. Just as an aside, she's Hispanic and I'm not. I used to take offense to her family speaking in Spanish in front me. I found it very rude and exclusionary. We had many fights over these things and other issues. 

However, it seems after reanalyzing the past arguments, it seems that it was convenient to use any perceived slight or 
offense to have a blow up to avoid addressing the real issues that bothered both of us. We definitely lacked real and honest 
communication.

Fast forward to our tenth year of marriage, our first son is born. I can't really say it brought us closer together but she definitely 
enjoyed motherhood. So much so that we had the second child three years later. A testament to her, she worked up until 
the day before labor with both pregnancies. 

After the second child she worked at home for a year, 4 days at home & one day in the office. On office days I watched the kids. At this point I was working steady nights and of course, she was working days. Another thing that obviously didn't bring us closer. That lasted for a year until they laid her off. After considering the cost of daycare, it made sense to have her stay home to take care of the kids and get by one one salary. 

Around this time she moved out of our bedroom and into the kid's bedroom. She told me she really wasn't feeling the same 
anymore and that I needed to change. I would make half-hearted efforts to change basically just long enough to resume 
some sort of sexual relations which were infrequent to begin with.

As the boys got older, she told me how I wasn't spending enough time with the family due to my work hours. For the next 
three years, I worked the day tour (10 and 12 hours) for the next three years with the added stress and workload for the tour. 
What I did notice was that I would come home, we would eat dinner and then they would retreat to their room. The 
resentment started to build. 

Five years ago her mother, whom she was very close to died of cancer. I can honestly admit that I was not very supportive.
Apparently, she became very depressed and despondent and her way of dealing with it was by purchasing things on credit.
I didn't relize it at the time because of the distance between us. After Thanksgiving dinner several years ago, she confessed this after the guests left. She did admit at that time she knew it could ruin our marriage. I forgave her and we made love. I wound up having to refinance the mortgage for $130,000.00 more to cover the debt.

We had our third son and I went back to the night tour. The same infrequent sexual relations and no improvement in the 
relationship. I can't say I made any real effort to improve the relationship. Around this time she stopped complaining about 
me and the marriage and in retrospect, I took her silence as a sign of acceptance or compromise.

Two years ago it was back to the day tour. I gave her a laptop as she was interested in writing and she signed up for various 
writing sites. Earlier this year, I discovered that while I was work, while I slept in the other room and other times while I was on this computer in another room she was engaged in sending sexual messages and sending naked photos I had taken of her years ago to two men that I know of. I confronted her and she told me "it was just a game". In these "games", she professed her love to one of them hundreds of times. I e-mailed her articles and tried to explain to her the seriousness of the actions as it related to our marriage. She finally admitted and acknowledged her emotional affair and how she now "saw it was wrong". 

Regardless, I told her I still loved her and wanted to work it out.
She moved back into our bedroom because she "felt bad" for me. I really enjoyed having her back in the same bed. As a side 
note, she had to have our five year old (then four) sleeping in a toddler bed in the same room. One night after making love, I 
told her that while I enjoyed making love to her, that I felt disconnected from her. She told me that she wasn't feeling anything either.

A week later, I lost my temper when the youngest child had cursed at me. She came in the house and said it was over. I said how can we end a marriage over an outburst. Truth be told, I did have anger issues throughout the marriage even though it 
never manifested in physical abuse. I did say things that were extremely hurtful instead of resorting to physical violence.

She moved out of the room again and back in with the kids. I begged her to stay with the marriage if I changed and she 
agreed. Her requirements were that I "release all of my negativity and learn to think before speaking". Unfortunately, I went abut it in all the wrong ways, I read everthing by Mort Fertel, Dr. Gary Chapman (who did teach me excellent anger 
management techniques), Dr. Emerson Eggerichs, Willard Harley and I even started listening to the audiobook "Light Her Fire". 

During this time, she told me that I needed to let go and that I needed to delete all of the e-mails I had forwarded to myself 
of her and her two "cyberlovers". As a token, I agreed and did it. Up to this point, she had rejected all forms of physical signs of affection (hugs and hand holding) and kisses and *gasp* sex were absolutely out of the question. I went through a stage 
where I showered her with gifts. DVD's, music e-reader with tons of books and even a tablet. Her reply was that I was 
overdoing it. Around this time she had told me, "I love you but I am not in love with you." I saw posts on this site that let me 
know that I was in trouble.

About two or three weeks go, I figured I would try to connect to her on a spiritual level. We began to watch shows together 
that she had recorded on Bible scripture. I began to read the Bible and began to pray again. She had even commented that 
she could see me changing. Last night when I got home from work, I gave her a "miss you" card with a personal note written 
inside. We wound up conversing on the deck and now I have been downgraded to "I care for you but don't feel anything for 
you" and "I'm empty inside and don't feel anything for you". Needless to say, my heart and my spirit were both crushed.

We continued the conversation this morning and I told her that I would have done anything for her to keep this family 
together. Her complaint is that she says we could take more time and she "may never feel anything for me again".
My reply was if that were the case, she should have left several years ago, so that "I would not have been strung along".
She accused me of "holding on" and my reply was she hasn't left because she has it pretty convenient to have everything 
paid for and provided for that I have all of the responsiblity and none of the privileges and pleasure of marriage. 

Am I wrong to think that we can rekindle the spark and that she could fall in love with me again? Am I being selfish risking 
keeping her in a "loveless" marriage to keep the family together?

As an aside, in the past three months I have lost thirty pounds, I have been working out and just got a clean bill of health from 
the family doctor last week who also took me off one of my diabetes medications. I really have been changing inside and out and can both see and feel the changes. If she clearly no longer wants to be married to me, don't I have the right to be 
happy or pursue happiness?


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

Just to add that I showed it to her just before I posted it. Her reply was that " I painted her as a terrible person" and "that I don't describe her emotional suffering". She also said I failed to note that "when she came to me about problems 20 years ago, I was emotionally unavailable".

I replied I cannot describe her emotional suffering and it would really be hard to since we have more than 8 years of imposed separation/distance that she initiated. 

She said, "Go ahead and post it and just do whatever people tell you to."

She also repeated how she doesn't feel anything and how empty she is.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Man, you need some more or different books because next to doormat in the dictionary is your picture. 

How bout "No more Mr. Nice guy"? Get the kid out of the bedroom. Good luck.


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

They* both* left the room 42 days ago.

And not to belittle her feelings or lack thereof, I *do* feel like a doormat. 

Thanks for the wish of "good luck" Locard, but I do believe that this is over. I tried talking to her again and she stated that there is nothing to talk about. She is insistent she "feels nothing for me right now".


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

> Am I wrong to think that we can rekindle the spark and that she could fall in love with me again? Am I being selfish risking keeping her in a "loveless" marriage to keep the family together?
> 
> If she clearly no longer wants to be married to me, don't I have the right to be happy or pursue happiness?


It seems that no one had any input for my questions. 

To update, after posting yesterday, I spoke to a friend who is an attorney to inquire about a referral and their rates. I cannot use him because we work together and that could create an awkward environment at work. 

After that I went to the credit union and opened a checking account in just my name and moved some money from our joint account into it. This way I have my own account to switch my direct deposit to when the time comes.

Completing that I returned home to have a discussion about the financial ramifications of ending it all. She agreed to stay until we sell the house. I cannot afford it if she leaves and I have to begin child support payments.

I also ordered two Michelle Wiener books after visiting the Divorce Busting® - How to Save Your Marriage, Solve Marriage Problems, and Stop Divorce after reading some of the posts on the site.

I ordered "Divorce Busting: A Step-by-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again" and "The Divorce Remedy: The Proven 7-Step Program for Saving Your Marriage".

I tried the "180 technique" I saw on this site and half way through our conversation I failed miserably. 
The bottom line, I told her that even though she has no feelings for me at this time (her exact words), I will hold on to a glimmer of hope that we can reconcile in the future. She is still my wife and the mother of my sons. *I still love her and want to try to keep this family together.*

Today we talked about child support payments and how financially devastating a divorce will be to each of individually and how that will impact our children's futures.

I guess I wait for Weiner's books to come, read them and then execute the principles therein.

What else can I do?


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm sure you know that its hard to comment when only hearing one side. Seems like you tried hard to admit your faults, but there was a void in the description of her efforts to make the marriage work. 

You contributed to the state it is in, but there was also so much forgiving. Sorry, but the sending photos part would've driven most men ape$hit. This does make you seem like a doormat. And the financial ruin. That is very irresponsible. 

My take on her contribution to a healthy relationship so far? Its hard to think of a single thing. Lots of denied love. There's just a whole lotta' "I'm not feeling the love". How did she try to make things better throughout the relationship? 

Somehow, did she try to make things work through the years, or we're you expected to do the heavy lifting?


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## troy (Jan 30, 2011)

JJD said:


> If she clearly no longer wants to be married to me, don't I have the right to be
> happy or pursue happiness?


Of course you have the right to be happy, and you should. The love was gone years ago and I am afraid it may be too late. Read the books you ordered and try some of the strategies. I honestly hope it works for you.

I also tried all kinds of things and read all kinds of books, including Divorce busting, but still nada.

My wife left emotionally about 10 years ago but still strung me along for her convenience. Now the time is up and she wants me to leave the house.

This forum has helped me to grow a pair, and I am finally starting to stand up for myself and do what is best for me. So, I don't think I will be moving out after all. It may get rough, but its high time I stood up for myself and look after my interest before hers.

Grow a pair and take care of yourself and your kids. It will be rough but you WILL find happiness in due time.


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

Halien, to be honest neither one of us did any heavy lifting. She apparently tried more than once years ago to convince me to change and I either didn't or just made half assed attempts to appease her. She insists that she told me she had had enough and was feeling nothing before her mother got sick (2005). 

Either way, she stopped complaining and/or hinting, I took that as as sign of complacency, compromise or acceptance. 

In her defense, she is an excellent mother and makes sure that we all well fed and have clean clothes. She does the shopping and helps the kids with their homework.

She told me today that she can see that I am changing and have made positive improvements. However, she says she "ate ****" for too many years of my ignoring her requests to change and not being there emotionally for her that she just gradually turned off her feelings for me because it made it easier to live. She said she had to because she could not live that way with emptiness and pain.

Troy it seems you offer solid advice from experience. I am still clinging on to a little hope though

I just got a copy of Ed Wheat's "Love Life For Every Married Couple: How To Fall In Love, Stay In Love, Rekindle Your Love".
I am going to start it tonight in a little while.

I was really hoping to receive a woman's perspective on this. Especially if she/they can offer any insight or advice on how to rekindle any spark or is it a hopeless case and a waste of time?


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

JJD said:


> Halien, to be honest neither one of us did any heavy lifting. She apparently tried more than once years ago to convince me to change and I either didn't or just made half assed attempts to appease her. She insists that she told me she had had enough and was feeling nothing before her mother got sick (2005).
> 
> Either way, she stopped complaining and/or hinting, I took that as as sign of complacency, compromise or acceptance.
> 
> ...


I'd recommend a new post with a summary of the online activities and a link to this post in the Infidelity section. If you look at the number of participants there, you'll see that you'll get more female feedback there. I don't think you realize that this incident might haunt you regardless of what happened. Online affairs and spending replaced the emotions that could've been put into the relationship, and its my opinion that you'll have to stand up for yourself in a firm way before she starts seeing you differently. See the manning up links in the Men's Clubhouse to see how this changes the way she looks at you. I'm not suggesting that you are a doormat or nice guy syndrome, but that you'll need to be the type of man that kindles interest in her. Strong, bold, etc, as part of being an active participant in the marriage.


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

Harlien, I appreciate your swift reply. I may actually take you up on that advice but not right now. I have done a lot of work trying to forget it and blot it from my memory... that I don't want to stir up more negative emotions posting about it. As far as the spending, I did forgive her. It has hurt me financially considering home values but it might not have happened if I had been more attentive and had actually listened.

I am trying to stand up for myself. For now I am going to keep improving myself by dieting working out, reading and making real positive and lasting changes to my personality and outlook and I am not going to "chase after" or beg her. I will give it some time to see if she comes around and if not, eventually I will try the techniques in Wheat's book (after I finish it). 

If that doesn't work, I'll admit defeat, throw in the towel and look for someone else who may actually appreciate all of the positive changes I have been making to myself.


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## onepotatotwo (May 17, 2011)

JJD, your posts sound so sad. I feel sorry for what you're going through. 
Some of what your wife is saying/feeling is how I feel as well. My H has been there through alot of life's troubles, but there have been instances, big instances, where he was *not there*...he might have been present, but he was so emotionally absent he might as well have been on the moon. 
From my own female perspective, when men take women for granted by not honoring our feelings--or even acknowledging that we have them--we(I myself) tend to shut down. My H can cut me to the core with things he says or does...or doesn't do. And I will shut down emotionally--and he'll eventually ask what's wrong--and I'll eventually break down and tell him. Where we always go wrong is that when I tell him what's wrong, he doesn't honor my feelings and allow me to feel the way I do--He's all about changing how I feel, telling me I *don't* feel that way, or that for whatever reasons he comes up with I'm not *justified* in feeling how I do. It comes down to him not recognizing my feelings. 

You're doing good in working on yourself--getting yourself physically and emotionally healthy. That's good for *you*...that will make you a stronger/healthier person no matter how your marriage turns out. As you're working on your own self, are you going to work on your marriage?
It's a tough call because I'm in a similar situation where I can see my H has made changes to how he is...I'm sure it's hard for him to reprogram his brain and how it responds to me after all the years of being a certain way... But as he's making these changes, I'm not all that interested in how he's turning out. I've been hurt and 'abused' for so long that however he wants to act now, however he changes himself, I really don't care all that much. I've had too much hurt from him--too much pain and belittling and everything else. The pain and misery has far outweighed the happiness. So, he could magically transform himself into the perfect husband but it doesn't change the damage he did to me. 

If my H were to keep trying to be better than he'd been in the past--if he were to actually *be* changing, as opposed to doing it to keep me--I would have more, real, feelings for him. I don't think I want my marriage to end per se, as much as I want to be happy...does that make sense? I could fall in love with my husband all over again and our marriage could work if we could find a way to live together *and* for me to actually be *happy*.

Sorry to talk about myself so much in your post...I'm just trying to say that I can relate to your wife's attitude, and maybe by explaining about my situation you can better understand where your W's coming from...

I hope that things work out so you both can be happy.


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

onepotatotwo, thank you so much for replying. First of all because you provided a female perspective and secondly. because it seems you are going through exactly what my wife is/was.

I even shared your reply (as well as everything I have posted) with my wife.

She agreed with your post/assessment and looked me straight in the eye and told me "the only difference is I don't feel anything for you right now". She went on to say that were a lot of similarities between between our lives and yours but that for her the main difference is is that she states for her she has already decided that this marriage does not make her happy and that for her it is over unlike you:


> I don't think I want my marriage to end per se, as much as I want to be happy...does that make sense? I could fall in love with my husband all over again and our marriage could work if we could find a way to live together *and* for me to actually be *happy*.


I asked her if the was a way we could fall in love again and her reply was not right now and "we'll see".

We are being extremely civil to each other. The amazing thing is we actually communicate better now than we have in a long time. She says that it is because I really listen now. There is not and she has made it clear there will not be and non-sexual physical signs of affection (hand-holding, hugs, kisses, etc.) let alone sex because she "does not feel anything". She did say she could have sex bit that because she does not feel anything it will lead to resentment. 

As far as what am I going to do to work on the marriage? I can only continue to work on myself and present permanent and lasting changes that may "soften" her up and possibly make her warm up to and feel something for me. I asked her again if she would see a marriage counselor or would she consider a marriage improvement program and she replied no.

This whole ordeal has led me to increase my level of spirituality and relationship with God. As a matter of fact, the only "quality time" I actually share with her is watching shows she had recorded about scripture. If it is the only quality time that I get with her, I will take it.

I really would like to find a way to make her feel something for me again, rekindle a spark or actually make her "fall in love with me again". Maybe it is because I am a man, but I cannot figure out and she will not explain fully how you can go from 100% to 0% feelings over a course of time. She obviously saw something in me then to marry me. If I eliminate the negative aspects of my personality (at least the major ones that affect us), I don't understand how that does not make any impact on her eve though she acknowledges seeing the changes.

I will place my faith in Him and pray that my marriage is saved. I will continue to read (like Wheat's book) and see if I can discover a way to rekindle the spark. My biggest dilemma is that what every I do try will be one sided, she will not budge or try to meet me halfway (or give an inch either). So basically whatever I do wind up trying is going to have to be major to shake the current level stubbornness and adamancy she has shown so far.

Once again onepotatotwo, a sincere thank you from me for taking the time to reply, for sharing your experience end insight and for your advice. 



> Sorry to talk about myself so much in your post


 No apology is necessary. First, if talking about it is cathartic for you, post away. Secondly, the more that you share from the female perspective helps me to learn how and if I can actually resolve this.



> JJD, your posts sound so sad.


 I apologize for the sadness coming through. I don't see it as I am typing it. However, I am sue that I don't have to tell you that if sounds that sad reading about it, then it is at least just as sad, if not more, tying to live it.

Here's to wishing us both success in our respective marriages and hoping that we each get what we truly want.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

JJD, she basically divorced you about the same time she moved out of the bedroom, 8 years ago. Seriously, since then, has she given you any real indication that she feels the slightest bit sexually or romantically interested in you? Her body remains in place but her passion left years ago.


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Seriously, since then, has she given you any real indication that she feels the slightest bit sexually or romantically interested in you?


No she hasn't. She says that she tried (on the infrequent occasions
we had sex) but that she felt nothing for me and that she was "trying to see if she felt something". Amazingly enough, the most sex we had during recent years was during her online EA or although I didn't realize it at the time.


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

I honestly hate to admit this but the more time that I spend on this site and read other posts in other sections... the more resentment I can feel building in me. Even though I agreed earlier today to firmly resolve to do a "real 180" in another thread, I cannot for the life of me, besides the fact that she is the mother of my sons, figure out why I would work so hard to convince this woman to remain in my life. 

I realize that this is anger and resentment getting to me and bubbling things up and bringing them to the surface. The reality is, she has made absolutely no effort to improve this relationship in recent memory and has pretty much made it clear she does not intend to.

I still think the 180 may be the best way to go at this point. I also think that maybe I need to go out of my way (by actually leaving the house to meet with friends and co-workers and leaving this stifling environment) to show her that I can have fun and live a life without her. 

I need to convince and reassure myself that she since she has absolutely no feelings for me (her words repeatedly) that I need to disassociate her from the being the "center of my universe" and to stop convincing her to stay or try to get her to fall back in love. Realistically, I know it is probably not going to happen.

I need to effectively stick to a 180 and if she never "comes around" then it's not meant to be. By the same token all of the energy I am expending trying to salvage and reconcile this relationship could be better spent having good times, cultivating existing friendships to take my mind off of these problems and maybe make new friendships that could lead me to a new relationship.

After all, she says she's not happy with me. She made this decision. Now I have the right be happy also. If her and I are not gong to be happy with each other, she's basically telling me by her actions to find happiness somewhere else. Right?


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## JJD (Jun 8, 2011)

As of today, we are definitely and officially over. She stated it three times and believe it or not, I took it quite well. There was no animosity or anger on my part. 

For the time being we have decided she will stay here until the house is sold (which is subject to review by either party should circumstance arise). She will find a job and save money for her own lawyer for the divorce. She has agreed to waive claim to my pension benefits due to the money I am going to lose due to refinancing her spending blitz.

We both agree we would like to become (we're not exactly the best of friends right now) and remain friends in the future. She is the mother of my children and I would like to remain a part of their lives. To do that effectively, there can't be any animosity between us.

I'll continue to work out, improve myself and increase my spiritual relationship with God because after all at the end of the day, all I really have to count on is me. 

I have no choice but to move on. How comfortable or difficult that journey is up to me and what path I choose to take. Right now, I choose to take the path that provides me the most inner peace and let's me remain an integral part of my son's futures.

To be quite honest, I could not have reached this decision without the power of prayer and "giving it all to Him".

I'm not happy with this outcome but I am not angry or resentful either. And I think that's a good thing.


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