# Unhappy answers about desire



## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Summary - wife and I on a date, I mentioned I had a few questions earlier in the week and wife said this was a good time to ask them. The first question I asked was rather tame but I was met with such an uncaring reply that I shut down and gave up. It was a softball question about lack of passion and the aging process.
So later in the week we're alone in a car (by that I mean no kids) and wife wants the rest of the questions.
I sum up courage and go for it, and things are going fine (what I call the "good questions", like, "why are your sensitive parts so sensitive sometimes and not others, and how am I supposed to know this?")
BUT then one reply to one question was, and I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
we have never gone a month (or even a week) without sex, my wife doesn't say no often, but, I'm thinking, she doesn't do it because she has _desire_, she's doing it out of _obligation_.
Now I'm depressed, because as a man I feel I should be desirable and if I'm not I'm screwing something up; and I'm pretty sure this forum is going to tell me its my own damn fault.
Sooo, lay it on me people...tell me I'm wrong and where to go from here???


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You can't do anything about another person's desire for you, but you can do a lot about your desirability. What can you do to improve how desirable you are? You might also want to read "Mating in Captivity" and MMSLP.


----------



## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

OP, did you guys ever figure out how to make her orgasm from PIV or is that still restricted to masturbation?

Is she still masturbating? If she is, then you have a bigger problem at hand.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

GS,

This is such a great post. 

My desire for sex has dropped along with my T levels. M2 is the same fun, attractive lovable person she always has been. But my desire is a lot lower. Not her fault. At all. 

Don't be hard on G2 for being transparent with you. Or she'll stop sharing and that my man is a dangerous situation to be in. 





Gseries said:


> Summary - wife and I on a date, I mentioned I had a few questions earlier in the week and wife said this was a good time to ask them. The first question I asked was rather tame but I was met with such an uncaring reply that I shut down and gave up. It was a softball question about lack of passion and the aging process.
> So later in the week we're alone in a car (by that I mean no kids) and wife wants the rest of the questions.
> I sum up courage and go for it, and things are going fine (what I call the "good questions", like, "why are your sensitive parts so sensitive sometimes and not others, and how am I supposed to know this?")
> BUT then one reply to one question was, and I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
> ...


----------



## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

I haven't followed your other threads, but what struck me in her response was that she doesn't need SEX not that she doesn't need YOU. An important distinction.

How old are you both? As women get older and approach menopause, hormone levels can drastically change causing a drop off or increase in desire. If she's in her 40s or older, it's worth a trip to the doctor to find out if that's a factor as hormone therapy can help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Gseries said:


> and I'm pretty sure this forum is going to tell me its my own damn fault.


I understand that you feel depressed, but the line above is not a very nice thing to say to a group of people that are asking for help. I also think that your assumption is wrong.

If you have kept up your appearance and hygiene, provided your wife with emotional support, done your fair share of household work, and have not been an overly negative person, then your wife should do her part to do her best to maintain a healthy sex life, which includes having a healthy and caring attitude about the topic. 

Recently I talked with my wife about seeing a physician about her low libido. I told her that even if nothing helps, I would remember and appreciate that she was willing to do something about it. During a recent trip to the UK, she was able to get a prescription of low-dose testosterone for women (and I didn't pressure her to do it). I don't know if it will help, but I was surprised by her willingness to give it a try. 

I do recommend that both you and your wife have your hormone levels and thyroid checked. This issue seems to be a cause of many libido problems later in life. Of course this is only true if other aspects of the marriage are ok.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

heartbroken50 said:


> I haven't followed your other threads, but what struck me in her response was that she doesn't need SEX not that she doesn't need YOU. An important distinction.
> 
> How old are you both? As women get older and approach menopause, hormone levels can drastically change causing a drop off or increase in desire. If she's in her 40s or older, it's worth a trip to the doctor to find out if that's a factor as hormone therapy can help.


As soon as I posted something about hormone levels, your post about this topic pops up.


----------



## 2ndHandRose (Feb 22, 2017)

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's your fault. I had what I would consider a normal desire level in my 20s and early 30s. Now in my late 40s I have little interest in sex and haven't pretty much since I hit perimenopause about 5 years ago.

I would have her get her thyroid checked though. Mine is low and I still have issues even with medication.


----------



## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

great responses, and apologies from me for pre-judging (Steve). my account has been locked for a year for password issue.
Ok, in no order,
mid 40s (ok, past mid)
i'm the happy, healthy, fit, out going optimistic one with full time job plus yes i (IMHO) do more than my share of household chores...good father, kids are healthy and happy, etc. literally have a white picket fence.
um, the "O" thing, well, i did learn "how to do it" (vibe);I can't wait to read the other post about "how I know when it happens". but almost never through PIV, I'm thinking that's a rarity.
I hadn't thought of hormone thing...maybe ignoring reality? Not sure I could suggest that. Might get clocked  how does one bring that up?
her periods are not regular, funny thing is, I know it after 20+ years, i don't need a calendar.
I shouldn't request a continuation of the conversation right? That will just make her less apt to talk.
Last - on a positive note, I did wake up to an earthquake the other night (I mean her solo). Must have some desire. I kept quiet and pretended to sleep.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Gseries said:


> Summary - wife and I on a date, I mentioned I had a few questions earlier in the week and wife said this was a good time to ask them. The first question I asked was rather tame but I was met with such an uncaring reply that I shut down and gave up. It was a softball question about lack of passion and the aging process.
> So later in the week we're alone in a car (by that I mean no kids) and wife wants the rest of the questions.
> I sum up courage and go for it, and things are going fine (what I call the "good questions", like, "why are your sensitive parts so sensitive sometimes and not others, and how am I supposed to know this?")
> BUT then one reply to one question was, and I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
> ...


You are not wrong.

Where you go from here depends on the answer to the question "Why do I want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with me?" I spent a long time chasing after my wife who was completely disinterested in sex or anything sexual. She'd have sex with me, but like yours it wasn't because she actually wanted to. At some point I realized that the entire arrangement is kind of gross. _It made me feel bad about myself when we'd have sex, because I knew it was only for me._ Once that sunk in, it put me off sex with her.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Gseries said:


> ....., "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."
> we have never gone a month (or even a week) without sex, my wife doesn't say no often, *but, I'm thinking, she doesn't do it because she has desire, she's doing it out of obligation.*
> 
> *Now I'm depressed, because as a man I feel I should be desirable* and if I'm not I'm screwing something up; .....


I am an HD man and my wife is an LD we are both in our late 60's. For a while we had a classic Sex Starved Marriage. Though introspection, some great books, changing myself and then seeking help from a Sex Theapist the two of us have reconnected and saved our marriage.

First of all, most people really don't have a clue as to what life in an HD/LD marriage is like. I would say that was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around, but I think I am there now.

David Schnarch in his Book the Passionate Marriage and the Crucible likes to point out that everything in marriage is about reaching a compromise between an LD and HD partner. One partner may be HD when it comes to watching professional football on TV. Another partner may be HD when it comes to watching murder mysteries on TV, One partner may be HD when it comes to chocolate ice cream for dessert. Same with sex.

There is no "right amount" of chocolate ice cream for dessert. For some the urge for chocolate might be overwhelming and they may "need" it 3 times a day, at lunch, at a ice cream shop on the way home and after dinner. Their spouse may prefer vanilla ice cream once a month and just politely play with the chocolate ice cream served up in a small bowl after each dinner. It doesn't matter if chopped nuts, whipped cream, or sprinkles are added to the chocolate ice cream. Are they a bad spouse for not craving chocolate ice cream as much as their spouse? No, they as a couple just need to figure out how they can make each other happy and reach a reasonable compromise they can both live with.

I have been in bed with my wife playing and kissing and she has stopped looked at me and told me to not touch her down there, because if I do, she will want to have sex and she doesn't want to have sex that night or morning. That is LD looking you straight in the eyes. My wife when aroused likes and enjoys sex. However, she doesn't want sex as much as I want sex. That is never going to change. In fact sex is far lower on her priorities of things she would rather do. It is not about sex with me as sex in general. 

The sex therapist who helped save our marriage helped us negotiate a frequency of sex that we can both live with and will keep us emotionally close. It is twice a week. The sex therapist helped me understand that my wife really does love me and really wants to stay married to me, she just doesn't want sex as much as I do. My wife has a stressful job and sometimes that just kills her desire for sex. Again, that has nothing to do with her desire for me, or her love for me. For a long time she felt like a sexual failure or a broken defective person for not wanting sex as much as I did. The sex therapist helped her understand she is not defective or broken, she just has a different level of desire for sex than her husband. Being married to an LD partner is a challenge. It doesn't mean that she doesn't love me or desire me. It just means that her sexual needs and priorities are different than mine. She is not broken, and I love her for who she is.

Some nights she is not really in the mood and yet she knows that I really would like to have sex. On some of those nights she will give me the gift of her body. She enjoys knowing that she can pleasure me and she enjoys how much I enjoy sex with her and how emotionally close it makes me feel to her. I had to learn how to lovingly accept her special gifts when she gave them to me.

I have learned that even if I gave her a bubble bath, massaged her back and feet for hours, been extremely romantic, that all those replayed mental work meetings repeating in her head would not get her in the mood for sex. On those nights we can either play in some other way or we can have the sexual connection with her that I emotionally need. Some times we will put it off for another night. Sometimes after a stressful week, she will just pull me onto her and tell me to take her and she will enjoy what her body is capable of doing for me.. Again, when she does that it is not something I view as her giving into duty sex. I view it as her enjoying providing me with a special treat and feeling good about it.

I think you need to talk to her and see if maybe your perspective isn't the problem.

Good luck.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Gseries said:


> I shouldn't request a continuation of the conversation right? That will just make her less apt to talk.


This is going to understandably be on your mind until it is addressed. You're obviously uncomfortable to request your wife to have a serious talk with you. However, if your wife is too impatient to listen to you talk about this, you need to take a step back and take a look at whether your wife really even cares about you. One key is though how you approach the topic with your wife. If you approach her with with a calmness and the belief that you are not wrong to deal with this issue, she might be more receptive. 

I would specifically advise that you don't ask her any more questions when you talk next. Instead tell her that a healthy sexual relationship is very important to you and that you want to have a wonderful sexual relationship again with her. Perhaps tell her, as I told my wife, that one possibility is that her hormone levels are dropping because it is common for women in their 40's and beyond. And let her know that if it doesn't help her libido, you will still have an appreciation that she was willing to try.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

young at heart said:


> i am an hd man and my wife is an ld we are both in our late 60's. For a while we had a classic sex starved marriage. Though introspection, some great books, changing myself and then seeking help from a sex theapist the two of us have reconnected and saved our marriage.
> 
> First of all, most people really don't have a clue as to what life in an hd/ld marriage is like. I would say that was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around, but i think i am there now.
> 
> ...


^^^this!!!^^^


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Gseries said:


> BUT then one reply to one question was, and I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."


Actually the follow up questions should have been "is it sex doesn't matter or is it actually, sex with me no longer matters"

When you say "I don't need it" does that mean you really no longer physically need it or is it you no longer need it with me?

The you can find out the real hard hitting truths


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

snerg said:


> Actually the follow up questions should have been "is it sex doesn't matter or is it actually, sex with me no longer matters"
> 
> When you say *"I don't need it" does that mean you really no longer physically need it or is it you no longer need it with me?
> *
> The you can find out the real hard hitting truths


Or maybe she never felt it was something she ever "needed" in the first place.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Before you start second guessing your wife's response, here are a few things to think about.

How old is your wife? Is it possible she is menopausal? Because if she is then it throws her biology way off. Things start to get sensitive and what she might enjoy before is now painful. Also, her hormones can be wacky. These are things that can be helped.

Now how is your relationship. It seems from the tone of your post, that it might not be in the best place. If you have to composed yourself and steel yourself to talk to your woman. This you can work on too.

Please don't feel that bad that your wife is "just giving" you sex. Sometimes, as a wife, I am not in the mood, I have too much going on in my head and I know that I am not going to have an O, no matter what. I love my H and I want to give myself to my H. He is welcome to have some fun and like I say to him, "Take me baby". IT's my gift to him. 

I belief that you guys need to be more open about your relationship and sex. Be prepared to speak your heart and listen to her . During these conversation take the time to hear what your spouse is saying and don't judge yourself or her by those words. Listen and learn.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MEM2020 said:


> GS,
> 
> This is such a great post.
> 
> ...


Although I agree with you on the one hand.. I LOVE transparency... please tell me true...even when I don't want to hear it... but seriously.. I'd be depressed too if I learned my spouse felt this way.. If I ever said this to my husband.. he'd never reach for me again...he'd wait till I reached for him... it matters THAT MUCH that I am "into it" with him, that I want it too.. 

If he ever said this to me.. I would surely lose my enthusiasm and feel "our best years are past.. this is awful.. what is there to look forward to now.. just me getting off ?"... just the thought is crushing to me.. 

I would have to literally pick myself up off the floor and deal with this and somehow find peace with it, I would be calling the Doctor getting his Testosterone checked even.... 

I'll I'm trying to say is.. I can understand the man's initial reaction here....I'm guessing he's one of those who is more sensitive in this area... he NEEDS to feel his wife's arousal and enjoyment... only this satisfies him, or something is just lost. It is what it is...

Great post by @Young at Heart ...


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Gseries said:


> great responses, and apologies from me for pre-judging (Steve). my account has been locked for a year for password issue.
> Ok, in no order,
> mid 40s (ok, past mid)
> i'm the happy, healthy, fit, out going optimistic one with full time job plus yes i (IMHO) do more than my share of household chores...good father, kids are healthy and happy, etc. literally have a white picket fence.
> ...


Now this is sad.. SHE is horny.. and she's using her sexual energy solo...and hiding it from you... this would make me angry... what is going on here.. is she not orgasming with you?? 

Is there any resentment in the marriage.. I think you need to open up the masturbating dialog ... She should be saving her sexual energy for you.. the higher drive partner.. will she talk to you about her fantasies... what does it for her.. go out of your way to accommodate her.. 

If sex in the middle of the night is when she is horny.. set your clock.. work it out.. to bring you closer.. not passing ships in the night doing yourselves....


----------



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Welcome to the club. It is not unusual for a woman's libido to wane after a few kids. Men are genetically urged to have orgasms because we can impregnate several women a day if available. Women are genetically urged to get a man close to them in order to get pregnant and to keep the man to protect her and the children until the children can then pass along their genes. She no longer has the genetic urge to have sex since does not want anymore kids.

You are still capable of impregnating women every day of the week or even several women every day of the week. You still are being genetically urged to want sex as often as possible because you can produce kids every day. Your wife has no genetic urge to have sex anymore. My wife lost her libido in her 50's. It happens but my wife will have sex with me once or twice a week and have very intense orgasms. She basically does not have a desire for sex but once it starts she gets aroused and has a few orgasms. She still has sex with me because she loves me and I frankly told her if she did not, I would get it elsewhere and she knows that is no idle threat.

When our sex life was going down the tubes I did what I always do, find a new kind of sex that my wife likes and to schedule our sex life. No excuses allowed. Even if we just cuddle for a half an hour we make time for sex once a week. This is something we have done before when sex became once every 3 weeks or a month. Having sex releases Oxytocin which emotionally bonds a couple together. The more sex you have, the more you both want it. Oxytocin is the same hormone that bonds your wife with her kids. It is powerful stuff and nature's way of keeping a couple together. Scheduling a mandatory sex night really works, but you both have to want to do it to save the marriage and show your love for each other. I think that sex is a very important aspect of marriage. With little or no sex, your emotional bond goes away and you live like friends, with a few benefits from time to time just to shut you up.

The important thing is to find a way to get your wife interested in sex again and rebuild that emotional bond between you. Stress how important it is to you and to your marriage. Schedule sex nights. That really works. There is always the possibility that she does not love you anymore. Click the link below to see the science of love. How long does passion last? The four stages of love - TODAY.com


----------



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Take a look at this. It will answer the why question. 

How long does passion last? The four stages of love - TODAY.com


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Gseries said:


> I shouldn't request a continuation of the conversation right? That will just make her less apt to talk.
> Last - on a positive note, I did wake up to an earthquake the other night (I mean her solo). Must have some desire. I kept quiet and pretended to sleep.





SimplyAmorous said:


> Now this is sad.. SHE is horny.. and she's using her sexual energy solo...and hiding it from you... this would make me angry... what is going on here.. is she not orgasming with you??
> 
> Is there any resentment in the marriage.. I think you need to open up the masturbating dialog ... She should be saving her sexual energy for you.. the higher drive partner.. will she talk to you about her fantasies... what does it for her.. go out of your way to accommodate her..
> 
> If sex in the middle of the night is when she is horny.. set your clock.. work it out.. to bring you closer.. not passing ships in the night doing yourselves....


What SA said ^

As I've repeated ad nauseum here on TAM, sex and masturbation are two separate things. Although they (typically) have one thing in common - orgasm - they're apples and oranges.

However, you can deduce that your wife has a desire for orgasms. Why she chooses this method to obtain them, as opposed to sex with her husband - that needs to be figured out, and thus, the conversation needs to continue, IMO.

The most likely answer is that masturbation is simply easier and quicker, and she only has to worry about one person - herself. Some people are simply not 'pleasers'. It doesn't necessarily mean they're selfish, more that they're just not attuned with other people's needs the same way many of us are.

Therefore, when it comes to things like sex, these people will often do the things that you like, but not necessarily in order to make you happy. I do things I have no desire to do to make my wife and kids happy, because that's the goal. It makes me feel good to make them feel good. Therefore the act itself is irrelevant. Some people simply never see beyond the act itself (whatever it is, sexual or non-sexual; blowjobs, household chore, running an errand, etc.)

I think that's the simplest explanation for this, but requires more delving into conversation. 'Why do you have no desire for sex, yet desire orgasms?'

Now, one answer you will almost certainly get (or defensive response, anyway...) is that she IS willing to have sex, therefore you have no leg to stand on. While technically true, we all know it isn't that black and white. What she probably fails to recognize is that none of us simply 'want sex' - we want a partner who wants to HAVE sex, with US, because THEY want to have sex.

Some people, my wife included, do not (or did not) get this. To them it's black and white. 'I HAVE sex with him, so what's he complaining about? Why is this so complicated?'

All of this is familiar to me because I lived/am living it. My wife is LD, and has said the same things yours has - 'I could go without sex' etc. Slowly, over the years, I've gotten through to her that nobody wants to hear this, regardless of whether it's true or not. Her initial response was 'But I have sex with you!' and that was that. Black and white, to her. She never realized the simple act of saying she could live without sex the rest of her life affected all kinds of things in the marriage, never mind how I feel as a partner, a human being, a man. While I recognize her lack of desire for sex isn't specific to me, nevertheless it's damaging and depressing. She realizes that now, but it's too late to take it back.

Look, we all have our things. I'm not the most cuddly, snuggly, affectionate man on earth - and some women crave that in a partner. My wife appreciates those things, so I do them. My desire to spoon her in bed is simply not there. So I have to consciously do it, rather than organically. The difference between me and her is that she does not know I have to make a conscious decision to do this - because I'd never tell her in a million years that I have no desire to actually do this, and I'm only doing it for her. Because that would ****ing ruin it for her. Why would she want me to spoon her when she knows I'm only doing it for her?


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Gseries said:


> I'm quoting wife here, "well sex just doesn't matter much to me any more. I can go a day, week or a month and it doesn't bother me, I don't need it."


My wife has said that exact same thing to me before! The issue at hand is not exactly about lack of desire, but more so that your wife's sexual response is much different than yours. Probably without even knowing, she is just conveying that her sexuality is NOT the same as yours and that no period of abstinence will change that for her.

If you need some further insight to cheer you up... (NOT ADVISED!) The next time the two of you are enjoying some really good foreplay by making out while your cloths are still on and you feel your wife getting very aroused, arbitrarily stop as if you are going to go make yourself a sandwich, and ask her if she would mind just giving you some alone time for you to watch sports on TV. Tell her you enjoyed making out but are just experimenting to see what it is like to "not need" any sex so that you can understand her better! ...OMG, this would NOT go over well with her!!!!

Badsanta


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

heartbroken50 said:


> I haven't followed your other threads, but what struck me in her response was that she doesn't need SEX not that she doesn't need YOU. An important distinction.
> 
> How old are you both? As women get older and approach menopause, hormone levels can drastically change causing a drop off or increase in desire. If she's in her 40s or older, it's worth a trip to the doctor to find out if that's a factor as hormone therapy can help.
> 
> ...


I identify with this, I am turning 50 and to be honest my desire levels are pretty low, maybe the odd rush. We still have sex 2-3 times a week because I think it would not be fair to the H but recently I haven't been enjoying it much at all. Part of it is to do with the need to be cherished, complimented, etc, outside of the bedroom, my H can be buried in his work for most of the evening but still want to get it on when we go to bed. I rarely turn him down because sex does help me to sleep much better  but perhaps I should start playing a bit hard to get.
Sometimes the sex is mind blowing, but it seems to be happening less, I feel a bit like your wife, could survive without it longer. I think many women of my age begin to feel like that. Sex is not needed to love their husbands, unlike men who need it for emotional bonding.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Steve1000 said:


> As soon as I posted something about hormone levels, your post about this topic pops up.


The thing is, not everyone is a fan of hormone replacement therapy, physicians or people. It's a perception issue more than a medical issue and unless there's a definite medical need for HRT there may not be buy-in.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

john117 said:


> The thing is, not everyone is a fan of hormone replacement therapy, physicians or people. It's a perception issue more than a medical issue and unless there's a definite medical need for HRT there may not be buy-in.


I find that especially true in the US. The perception of HRT, especially testosterone, seems to be different in some countries in Europe as well as in Australia. Maybe some natives of those countries will chime in.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Steve1000 said:


> I find that especially true in the US. The perception of HRT, especially testosterone, seems to be different in some countries in Europe as well as in Australia. Maybe some natives of those countries will chime in.


In the UK HRT has a moderately poor reputation. It's considered to be a relatively high-risk treatment, and suggesting a woman goes on it because her partner wants more sex is probably not going to fly.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

She probably thinks that she has what she wants now: a house, kids and a husband (to pay for it all). She doesn't need anything else so figures that she can stop having sex with you. If you don't like that, a divorce will make you pay for everything anyway. Does she have a job and contributes to the family income?


----------

