# Trying to connect with my wife.



## NickTheChemist

I adore my wife. It loved from our first conversation and I want so desperately to be close to her. We have been married 8 years. I'm 31, she's 29. We were once very close and intimate when dating and engaged, but now we are not snd that breaks my heart. I have been, for the past 5 years actively pursuing ways to make our marriage better and to be close again. 

She is not cheating, so please don't suggest that.

Recently I have decided that I would focus on meeting her needs and fulfilling her emotionally as well as non-sexual touch. 

Married women, I would love your input. Can you tell me what non-sexual things you dream your husband would do for you/ say to you/ treat you?

I am a good man. I am Christian. I am healthy and attractive. My goal in my marriage every day is to treat my wife as she is more precious to me than diamonds. I try so hard, but she is so cold to me. I am not a soft man, but I tear up writing this now because I am so sad. 

She stays home with our children and I earn a very good wage working only 40 hours, so I am home a lot and we are financially stable. 

I do most of the cooking and at least half of the cleaning and housework do that we can have more time together.

I always hope that she will want to interact with me and most nights ask to do something with her like watch the sunset on the poarchseing or play cards, but she would almost always rather watch a show with earbuds in.

She will not kiss me. When I go in for a kiss she turns a cheek/forhead or gives me a tight-lipped peck and pulls away. 

She does not want me touching her unless it is for a back or shoulder rub. Will not cuddle. Won't hold my hand for Mhire than a few minutes. Sometimes she will "let" me spoon her in bed but elbows me off when she gets "too hot" every time snd even complains if I'm touching her when we wake in the morning.

It may be obvious here that our sex life is almost non-existent. It is so difficult as a man to feel loved 
When your wife will not respond to you in any way physically. Our marriage has been "sexless" for most of these 8 years. I do not use porn and have always been faithful to her. 

She makes fun of me for masturbating--especially when she gets mad. I try to involve her and be open about it because I want no secrets, but she often tries to embarrass me. She has a temper and sometimes says horrible thing to me in front of our children. 

She is a wonderful woman and I love her with all I am, but she has lost respect for me, I feel, and it is a deep aching hurt I carry constantly. I make sure she gets st least two evenings a week out of the house alone while I take care of the kiddos since she stays home and that is when she is happiest and wants to talk after getting home for a few minutes, but that's it. No going deeper emotionally. No physicsll expression of love and closeness. 

Please help me.


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## farsidejunky

Read this thread and tell me what you get from it.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

@MEM2020


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## MEM2020

The standard question - in this type situation - is this: Why doesn't you're wife respect you?

But that's actually not a helpful question since there is a much more important question. Why don't you respect yourself?

You keep crowding her and she keeps pushing you away. Your heavy presence at home isn't helping, it's hurting you. 

Coming across as weak and needy is a certain disaster. And yes - it is both weak and needy to keep doing stuff to/with a partner who clearly doesn't want it. 





NickTheChemist said:


> I adore my wife. It loved from our first conversation and I want so desperately to be close to her. We have been married 8 years. I'm 31, she's 29. We were once very close and intimate when dating and engaged, but now we are not snd that breaks my heart. I have been, for the past 5 years actively pursuing ways to make our marriage better and to be close again.
> 
> She is not cheating, so please don't suggest that.
> 
> Recently I have decided that I would focus on meeting her needs and fulfilling her emotionally as well as non-sexual touch.
> 
> Married women, I would love your input. Can you tell me what non-sexual things you dream your husband would do for you/ say to you/ treat you?
> 
> I am a good man. I am Christian. I am healthy and attractive. My goal in my marriage every day is to treat my wife as she is more precious to me than diamonds. I try so hard, but she is so cold to me. I am not a soft man, but I tear up writing this now because I am so sad.
> 
> She stays home with our children and I earn a very good wage working only 40 hours, so I am home a lot and we are financially stable.
> 
> I do most of the cooking and at least half of the cleaning and housework do that we can have more time together.
> 
> I always hope that she will want to interact with me and most nights ask to do something with her like watch the sunset on the poarchseing or play cards, but she would almost always rather watch a show with earbuds in.
> 
> She will not kiss me. When I go in for a kiss she turns a cheek/forhead or gives me a tight-lipped peck and pulls away.
> 
> She does not want me touching her unless it is for a back or shoulder rub. Will not cuddle. Won't hold my hand for Mhire than a few minutes. Sometimes she will "let" me spoon her in bed but elbows me off when she gets "too hot" every time snd even complains if I'm touching her when we wake in the morning.
> 
> It may be obvious here that our sex life is almost non-existent. It is so difficult as a man to feel loved
> When your wife will not respond to you in any way physically. Our marriage has been "sexless" for most of these 8 years. I do not use porn and have always been faithful to her.
> 
> She makes fun of me for masturbating--especially when she gets mad. I try to involve her and be open about it because I want no secrets, but she often tries to embarrass me. She has a temper and sometimes says horrible thing to me in front of our children.
> 
> She is a wonderful woman and I love her with all I am, but she has lost respect for me, I feel, and it is a deep aching hurt I carry constantly. I make sure she gets st least two evenings a week out of the house alone while I take care of the kiddos since she stays home and that is when she is happiest and wants to talk after getting home for a few minutes, but that's it. No going deeper emotionally. No physicsll expression of love and closeness.
> 
> Please help me.


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## Jessica38

I suggest reading this article from licensed clinical psychologist Dr. Harley and showing it to your wife to get her input, as the top 5 needs a spouse has in their marriage is individual, though they typically fall into these 10 categories:

The Most Important Emotional Needs

I know that conversation, affection, recreational companionship, family commitment, and financial support are my top 5 needs.

Unfortunately, your wife may not allow you to meet her needs if she is withdrawn from the marriage. Is there a reason why she's not willing to meet your needs? What are her complaints in the marriage?


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## GuyInColorado

Why doesn't she love you? Are you holding back information?

What's the kid situation? Does she want kids, but you don't? Is the "plumbing" broken?

How are you sure there is no affair? Do you check tabs on her text messaging and phone calls? Does she have Snapshat, Whats App, or Kik installed? You'd be amazed how many guys think their wife could never cheat on them and find out they indeed did. It's guys like you that have their wife on a pedestal that get hurt the most.

Time to concentrate on yourself. Go the gym 5-6x a week. Buy new clothes, buy a new car. Buy whatever the hell you want and don't ask her input. Stop helping her. Do your own laundry. Time to detach and be ready to replace her.


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## Bananapeel

Do you only want married women to comment or do you want to open this discussion to others too? If so, could she be gay?


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## NoChoice

OP,
People often do not want what they can so easily obtain. Their strongest want is for something they cannot have, why want what you already have? You are too easy to obtain. Find a hobby and entertain yourself, stop asking how she is and how her day went. Stop telling her you are masturbating and stop trying to initiate intimacy. Take up golf or some hobby that takes up your time and stop being so available. Take the kids out to the park. Also stop doing so much around the house, she is a SAHM let her do something.

This will serve two purposes in that it will make you less "easy" and it will help you detach and find happiness outside of her. We may soon be reading a post from her asking for help on how to get her husband interested again. Good fortune to you.


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## Yeswecan

NickTheChemist said:


> She makes fun of me for masturbating--especially when she gets mad. I try to involve her and be open about it because I want no secrets, but she often tries to embarrass me. She has a temper and sometimes says horrible thing to me in front of our children.
> 
> She is a wonderful woman and I love her with all I am, but she has lost respect for me, I feel, and it is a deep aching hurt I carry constantly. I make sure she gets st least two evenings a week out of the house alone while I take care of the kiddos since she stays home and that is when she is happiest and wants to talk after getting home for a few minutes, but that's it. No going deeper emotionally. No physicsll expression of love and closeness.
> 
> Please help me.


The first paragraph you state all the things she does to you. Her bad temper. The next paragraph you state she is a wonderful woman. The glasses you are wearing are rose color? 

Your wife has no respect for you. Keep beating off in front of her as she gets mad looking on like you are some kind of odd ball. 

What else are you doing?


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## naiveonedave

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> People often do not want what they can so easily obtain. Their strongest want is for something they cannot have, why want what you already have? You are too easy to obtain. Find a hobby and entertain yourself, stop asking how she is and how her day went. Stop telling her you are masturbating and stop trying to initiate intimacy. Take up golf or some hobby that takes up your time and stop being so available. Take the kids out to the park. Also stop doing so much around the house, she is a SAHM let her do something.
> 
> This will serve two purposes in that it will make you less "easy" and it will help you detach and find happiness outside of her. We may soon be reading a post from her asking for help on how to get her husband interested again. Good fortune to you.


QFT

You really should not be cooking dinner often or cleaning the house. Your emasculating yourself. Get some guy hobbies and do the guy work (fix things, take out the trash and mow the yard types of things). Don't talk about sex. If she isn't willing, go do something else, but don't let her know what.


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## C3156

NickTheChemist said:


> *My goal in my marriage every day is to treat my wife as she is more precious to me than diamonds.* I try so hard, but she is so cold to me. I am not a soft man, but I tear up writing this now because I am so sad.


The highlighted is a problem. She has no respect for you because you have her on a pedestal and [most likely] act like a doormat. You really need to act a little more like a man than a puppy. Let her see you mad, tell her no sometimes, stop doing to much around the house. 

Do some reading and some introspection on yourself. You only have control over yourself, so do everything to make yourself a better person. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy, start to implement some of the suggestions. Don't expect a change overnight, but if you start to become more comfortable with yourself and increase your self confidence, I bet you will start to see a change in your wife as she responds to the new you. Then read the 5 Love languages (with your wife) and see if you can start to talk each others love language.

You can repair your marriage but there needs to be a change. Since you can't control your wife, it needs to be you. Obviously if you have been trying for 5 years and nothing has worked so far, you need to try a different approach.


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## FrazzledSadHusband

Been in your shoes. I have posts on TAM about how much I cleaned, etc. No good.

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy. Your wife sees you as weak. See's you as being desperate. That you can't live without her and you couldn't get another woman.

Not attacking you. Just touching on points I learned the hard way.

Hit the gym. Get fit. But be forewarned. She's gonna push back some because right now she's getting all the cake, ie, housework is done, your earning the money, etc. And she does not need to have intimacy with you.

Here is a link for your wife - https://forgivenwife.com/the-other-side-of-the-wall/

Unfortunately, she holds the cards. She can threaten to keep the kids from you in a divorce. 
Mine did, she didn't realize I'm a stubborn cuss. 

I waited until youngest was teenager, then I brought up issues. I took her to marriage counselor. MC asked why I was bringing up issues, I said "Kids are old enough to know that dad would NEVER abandon them". She lost her leverage, and I told her we would either have a marriage or a divorce.

Until you get that pissed off & she knows your serious, nothing will change.


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## Marc878

NickTheChemist said:


> I adore my wife. It loved from our first conversation and I want so desperately to be close to her. We have been married 8 years. I'm 31, she's 29. We were once very close and intimate when dating and engaged, but now we are not snd that breaks my heart. I have been, for the past 5 years actively pursuing ways to make our marriage better and to be close again.
> 
> She is not cheating, so please don't suggest that.
> 
> Recently I have decided that I would focus on meeting her needs and fulfilling her emotionally as well as non-sexual touch.
> 
> Married women, I would love your input. Can you tell me what non-sexual things you dream your husband would do for you/ say to you/ treat you?
> 
> I am a good man. I am Christian. I am healthy and attractive. My goal in my marriage every day is to treat my wife as she is more precious to me than diamonds. I try so hard, but she is so cold to me. I am not a soft man, but I tear up writing this now because I am so sad.
> 
> You can't nice them back which is what you're trying to do
> 
> She stays home with our children and I earn a very good wage working only 40 hours, so I am home a lot and we are financially stable.
> 
> Get out and start going your own way
> 
> I do most of the cooking and at least half of the cleaning and housework do that we can have more time together.
> 
> Good relationships need to be balanced @ 50/50. Do your part and expect her to do hers. You do too much you get taken for granted and lose respect.
> 
> I always hope that she will want to interact with me and most nights ask to do something with her like watch the sunset on the poarchseing or play cards, but she would almost always rather watch a show with earbuds in.
> 
> She will not kiss me. When I go in for a kiss she turns a cheek/forhead or gives me a tight-lipped peck and pulls away.
> 
> If you chase they will move farther away. Always! If you're needy, clingy it makes you look weak which is unnattractive.
> 
> She does not want me touching her unless it is for a back or shoulder rub. Will not cuddle. Won't hold my hand for Mhire than a few minutes. Sometimes she will "let" me spoon her in bed but elbows me off when she gets "too hot" every time snd even complains if I'm touching her when we wake in the morning.
> 
> Sex is important. You've let her have total control over you and the marriage
> 
> It may be obvious here that our sex life is almost non-existent. It is so difficult as a man to feel loved
> When your wife will not respond to you in any way physically. Our marriage has been "sexless" for most of these 8 years. I do not use porn and have always been faithful to her.
> 
> She makes fun of me for masturbating--especially when she gets mad. I try to involve her and be open about it because I want no secrets, but she often tries to embarrass me. She has a temper and sometimes says horrible thing to me in front of our children.
> 
> You seem to have doormatish behavior. No wonder she has no respect for you
> 
> *She is a wonderful woman* and I love her with all I am, but she has lost respect for me, I feel, and it is a deep aching hurt I carry constantly. I make sure she gets st least two evenings a week out of the house alone while I take care of the kiddos since she stays home and that is when she is happiest and wants to talk after getting home for a few minutes, but that's it. No going deeper emotionally. No physicsll expression of love and closeness.
> 
> You are in denial. This isn't wonderful. Quit with the Mr Nice Guy routine. What has it gotten you?
> 
> Please help me.


Read up and apply it.
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

You can't fix her but you had better fix yourself. Start going your own way. She'll follow or she won't.

You've taught her she doesn't have to do anything. People treat you like you let them.

Better wake up


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## NickTheChemist

Thank you so much. You are right. I do not know how to cool down the overwhelming love without pushing her away but I may try it again. I did this 5-6 years ago before we had kids for an entire summer and she didn't initiate any words of affection or physical intemacy for 12 weeks! The worst part is that she seemed completely content to be just like room mates


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## NickTheChemist

farsidejunky said:


> Read this thread and tell me what you get from it.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html
> 
> @MEM2020


Oh my god, this is EXACTLY our relationship is today. Creepy how I am completely the description of the warm partner and the cold partner describes my wife exactly. 

But what do I do? I have stopped bringing up relationship, and sex a long time ago because it angered her and we got nowhere


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## Vinnydee

Every married women I dated had a husband who believed she was not cheating. That is what made it so easy. Obviously she is no longer in love with you. That happens a lot. Love is a chemical reaction in your brain, you cannot will it into or out of existence. Nothing you can do will make her love you again. Try willing yourself to love someone and you cannot do it. So why do you expect her to love you again when she is sending clear and unmistakable signals that she does not love you. There is no magic thing you can do. Read this and perhaps it will explain why she no longer loves you anymore. The more desperate you are, the less appealing you will become to her. Desperation is not a quality women look for in a man. Hate to say this, but it sounds like your marriage is already in the coffin, just waiting for the final nail to be hammered in. When they start to turn away from your touch, the love is gone and ain't coming back. Sorry, but you are desperately grasping for a life vest on a sinking ship.


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## Faithful Wife

NickTheChemist said:


> Oh my god, this is EXACTLY our relationship is today. Creepy how I am completely the description of the warm partner and the cold partner describes my wife exactly.
> 
> But what do I do? I have stopped bringing up relationship, and sex a long time ago because it angered her and we got nowhere


Focus on yourself, instead of on her. Focus on your health, your well being (aside from sex), your interests, your desires, your hobbies, your own body. Work on your independence, your autonomy, your self reliance.

Anyone in your position should do this. The reason you are in the position you are in is that you've focused on HER too much. She cannot heal you, though it may seem that she could. It may seem that the slightest touch from her or the smallest of gestures could raise you up. But that's not actually the case. All those things would do would be to condition you to be dependent on her providing those conditions.

If you can reach a place where you are ok and in balance regardless of what your spouse does, you will begin turning the momentum around from "you can make or break me", which is ultimately unattractive in cases like this, to "you can add to my joy but you cannot make or break me", which is very attractive in almost all cases.

No More Mr. Nice Guy would be a good book for you. They also have an online forum. That would be a good resource for you, too.


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## farsidejunky

NickTheChemist said:


> Oh my god, this is EXACTLY our relationship is today. Creepy how I am completely the description of the warm partner and the cold partner describes my wife exactly.
> 
> But what do I do? I have stopped bringing up relationship, and sex a long time ago because it angered her and we got nowhere


First of all, I tagged the author of the thermostat thread and he posted right after me. Mem will likely have a solution that is more precise (and less abrasive) than I. 

What do you do that is nice for your wife? Do you make her coffee? Rub her feet? Listen to her gripe about her day? 

Then you need to ask yourself why you would continue to do these things for someone who clearly has no interest in doing such things for you...

If it were me, I would find a good hobby and immerse myself in it. I would stop all of those things you do for her. I would smile often, and find happiness elsewhere. 

If she asks you to do something for her, just smile and tell her "Maybe". If she asks what that is about, tell her that if she wants more from you, she can start by doing more for you.

Learn to be happy without your wife.

Why do you fear her anger?


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## She'sStillGotIt

NickTheChemist said:


> Thank you so much. You are right. I do not know how to cool down the overwhelming love without pushing her away but I may try it again. I did this 5-6 years ago before we had kids for an entire summer and she didn't initiate any words of affection or physical intemacy for 12 weeks! The worst part is that she seemed completely content to be just like room mates


I have to admit that you come off as horrifically needy. That is SUCH a complete turnoff to a woman to have some guy hovering at her feet all the time, putting her on a pedestal and begging her to love him or for a pat on the head.

She's completely and totally emotionally disengaged from you and has been, for a long long time.

I don't know of any magic cure to change her feelings and 'make' her love you again.

Sorry.


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## NickTheChemist

Faithful Wife said:


> Focus on yourself, instead of on her. Focus on your health, your well being (aside from sex), your interests, your desires, your hobbies, your own body. Work on your independence, your autonomy, your self reliance.
> 
> Anyone in your position should do this. The reason you are in the position you are in is that you've focused on HER too much. She cannot heal you, though it may seem that she could. It may seem that the slightest touch from her or the smallest of gestures could raise you up. But that's not actually the case. All those things would do would be to condition you to be dependent on her providing those conditions.
> 
> If you can reach a place where you are ok and in balance regardless of what your spouse does, you will begin turning the momentum around from "you can make or break me", which is ultimately unattractive in cases like this, to "you can add to my joy but you cannot make or break me", which is very attractive in almost all cases.
> 
> No More Mr. Nice Guy would be a good book for you. They also have an online forum. That would be a good resource for you, too.


This is very helpful to hear. Thank you for truth. I will find out more about no more mr nice guy. Would you suggest letting her see me reading it or to hide it at first? It seems here I need to let my actions, or lack thereof, communicate the message that I will no longer be a doormat.


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## Keke24

NickTheChemist said:


> This is very helpful to hear. Thank you for truth. I will find out more about no more mr nice guy. Would you suggest letting her see me reading it or to hide it at first? It seems here I need to let my actions, or lack thereof, communicate the message that I will no longer be a doormat.


Who cares if she sees you reading it? Stop caring so much about what she thinks.

Chances are it's going to be very obvious to her that you want her to notice if "you let her see you reading it". That's also going to come across as weak because once again you're seeking her approval. It's going to take a lot more than that to see any changes in your wife's behavior and her perspective of you.


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## NickTheChemist

farsidejunky said:


> First of all, I tagged the author of the thermostat thread and he posted right after me. Mem will likely have a solution that is more precise (and less abrasive) than I.
> 
> What do you do that is nice for your wife? Do you make her coffee? Rub her feet? Listen to her gripe about her day?
> 
> Then you need to ask yourself why you would continue to do these things for someone who clearly has no interest in doing such things for you...
> 
> If it were me, I would find a good hobby and immerse myself in it. I would stop all of those things you do for her. I would smile often, and find happiness elsewhere.
> 
> If she asks you to do something for her, just smile and tell her "Maybe". If she asks what that is about, tell her that if she wants more from you, she can start by doing more for you.
> 
> Learn to be happy without your wife.
> 
> Why do you fear her anger?


I don't have a real hobby right now because I devote all of the time I can to the children and work on remodeling, cleaning, mowing and yard work after the kids sleep till I'm wiped out.

I used to enjoy weight lifting and playing music very much--perhaps I will pick those up again. 

I am--or at least have been before help from wonderful strangers on this thread--afraid of my wife being angry with me for a few reasons:

1) she cuts like a sword with her tongue and becomes verballly abusive to me--often in front of the kids. I don't want the kids to resent her for what she does to me or witness their mother like that.

2) she almost never admits fault or apologizes
So the more I point out that she is being mean to me or that I don't deserve her cutting words, the more she doubles down and calls me awful things. 

There have been rare times that she will come to me much after going off the hook and apologize, but then it shifts into a self deprecating "I'm a horrible wife"monologue that I want to agree with, but feel obligated to say "no, you're wonderful to me"...😔

3) she holds an ugly grudge and if she gets angry at me on a weekend morning, for instance, it is usually a dark cloud over the day and her attitude stinks.


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## NickTheChemist

Thank you for the tough words that I needed to hear. I wish you well for helping me


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## Keke24

NickTheChemist said:


> I don't have a real hobby right now because I devote all of the time I can to the children and work on remodeling, cleaning, mowing and yard work after the kids sleep till I'm wiped out.
> 
> I used to enjoy weight lifting and playing music very much--perhaps I will pick those up again.
> 
> Not perhaps, you absolutely should start it up again. One of the things I suggested to my ex who was a classic nice guy, was to get a personal trainer. He had every reason why he didn't have time/money.
> 
> I am--or at least have been before help from wonderful strangers on this thread--afraid of my wife being angry with me for a few reasons:
> 
> 1) she cuts like a sword with her tongue and becomes verballly abusive to me--often in front of the kids. I don't want the kids to resent her for what she does to me or witness their mother like that.
> 
> You know what's way worse than seeing your mom act like this? Seeing your father being belittled and watching him do absolutely nothing about it. She has such little respect for you, she doesn't care that doing this will also make your kids lose respect for you. Ugh
> 
> 2) she almost never admits fault or apologizes
> So the more I point out that she is being mean to me or that I don't deserve her cutting words, the more she doubles down and calls me awful things.
> 
> Why should she apologise when you're going to give in anyways. She knows instead of suffering any consequences, you're actually going to reward her bad behavior.
> 
> There have been rare times that she will come to me much after going off the hook and apologize, but then it shifts into a self deprecating "I'm a horrible wife"monologue that I want to agree with, but feel obligated to say "no, you're wonderful to me"...😔
> 
> seriously?
> 
> 3) she holds an ugly grudge and if she gets angry at me on a weekend morning, for instance, it is usually a dark cloud over the day and her attitude stinks.


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## NickTheChemist

Thank you. I needed to hear this and you are right. She has lost respect for me. I believe now that I have more or less trained her to walk on me snd treat me like crap. I am now trying to change what I can about myself. 

As a child I was always last priority in my family and my older brother was heavily favored. I'm starting to see that for most of my life I have believed that the people I love are more important than me my place is serving them. This, I know is total crap and I am trying to change myself.

Odd truth is that I am an alpha outside of these few relationships. I've been the foreman on construction crews. I started and ran a very successful business and had a few crews working for me. I am now a successful development chemist with authority.., but I haven't yet been able to shake the self-made doormat approach to the ones I love, but I will get there.


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## Keke24

NickTheChemist said:


> Thank you. I needed to hear this and you are right. She has lost respect for me. I believe now that I have more or less trained her to walk on me snd treat me like crap. I am now trying to change what I can about myself.
> 
> As a child I was always last priority in my family and my older brother was heavily favored. I'm starting to see that for most of my life I have believed that the people I love are more important than me my place is serving them. This, I know is total crap and I am trying to change myself.
> 
> Odd truth is that I am an alpha outside of these few relationships. I've been the foreman on construction crews. I started and ran a very successful business and had a few crews working for me. I am now a successful development chemist with authority.., but I haven't yet been able to shake the self-made doormat approach to the ones I love, but I will get there.


This duality seems to be a common trait with nice guys. My ex was also very assertive in his professional environment. I'd accompany him to some of his meetings and see the women perk up and the men nod their heads in quiet respect. He was blunt and said what the other people in the room were too meek to say out loud. Those were the rare occasions he would seem attractive and irresistible to me.

Like you he was also least favoured in the home. His step mother ruled his father and was less than friendly to him. I'm not sure what had the worse impact, him losing his mom or his father being a doormat and not standing up for himself and his son. 

Do you also have few (if any) close male friends? He had zero, also common among nice guys.


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## NickTheChemist

Thank you. I will read this article tonight. She is a brick wall when it comes to communicating about our relationship and I've given up trying to break the wall down because it only makes things worse. When she is angry she will say horrible abusive things to me, but those may not be well thought out complaints... every now and then she will say something like "You just don't treat me like you used to." And has no clarification for me when I ask--so I make a point to be much more attentive and intentional about treating her warmly and she withdraws even more. 

Maybe I have tried to hard all of this time to please her. She is willing to do very little for me. At this point I feel we are both in love with her and meeting her needs is top priority.


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## SunCMars

Was she always this way?

Or only after marriage?

Maybe she is on the spectrum. Maybe she has Aspergers Syndrome.....with mean behavior. 

Having no empathy, not knowing or not capable of real love.Having poor social skills.

She knows how to work around it.....she got you to marry her.


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## Keke24

NickTheChemist said:


> Thank you. I will read this article tonight. She is a brick wall when it comes to communicating about our relationship and I've given up trying to break the wall down because it only makes things worse. When* she is angry she will say horrible abusive things to me, but those may not be well thought out complaint*s... every now and then she will say something like "You just don't treat me like you used to." And has no clarification for me when I ask--so I make a point to be much more attentive and intentional about treating her warmly and she withdraws even more.
> 
> Maybe I have tried to hard all of this time to please her. She is willing to do very little for me. At this point I feel we are both in love with her and meeting her needs is top priority.


Perhaps she also has some disorder. It sounds like she's more than just disinterested and lacking in respect for you.


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## NickTheChemist

I have few friends outside of work that I talk with regularly. No female friends because it would be too much a temptation to me. I have been emotionally and sexually neglected by my wife for so long that I feel vulnerable and avoid it all together. 

It is difficult when young attractive women make advances towards me or flirt and I'm sure I seem socially awkward to them ducking out of conversations and avoiding contact at all. I would not cheat and have not. It's heartbreaking when I am working so hard to be strong and true and my wife hardly notices me when I come home. 

I wish that my wife could see other women giving me eyes or making advances--maybe she would realize that other women want what is so comepletyband hopelessly hers and hers alone.


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## Keke24

NickTheChemist said:


> I wish that my wife could see other women giving me eyes or making advances--maybe she would realize that other women want what is so comepletyband hopelessly hers and hers alone.


At this point it really wouldn't make a difference to her because she knows you're not going anywhere. There's no threat of you leaving her so she doesn't see the need to be nicer or do things for you. You've made it quite clear that you're hers so she's gotten very comfortable with the current dynamic of being catered to without having to give anything in return.


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## NickTheChemist

She is not on the spectrum, but you are very clever to think of this possibility. I am, though you would never know if you met me. 

She has not always been this way. We were still in college when we got married and early on she became frustrated with our status snd income and stressed about what we didn't have. It probably started back then within the first year of our marriage. The sex frequency slowed snd almost stopped early on. It's probably at that time I began my journey to where I am now where I feel like a broken man with everything but his Wife's respect and affection.


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## NickTheChemist

In the back of my mind I have wondered if she could be, but no. Though that would make it all easier to explain. She is only into men. On the rare occasion we have sex (right now it hasent been since January), it is incredible and she is very satisfied multiple times. 

I suppose it could be possible, but not on my radar. I think she is just withdrawn from all things sexual with me.


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## NickTheChemist

We have 3 wonderful children and we both wanted them and love them very much. We make an excellent parenting team but crappy couple right now. 

The plumbing works great and I am working out, but would like to start lifting weights again--maybe I will take your advice and buy the free weights I want. 

What I was not telling you I have just learned: that I have conditioned her to walk on me and she has lost all respect for me. The sex is great for both of us on the vary rare (5-10 times a year) occasion that it happens. 

I would never leave her or replace her but I am thinking now that she needs to see that I could.


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## NickTheChemist

You are absolutely right. This is going to be a long road getting back to a place where she respects me, isn't it?


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## sokillme

None of the stuff you are talking about lifting weights and getting hobbies is going to work unless you demand respect. I am not saying yell and scream, what i am saying it if she is disrespectful disengage. Your marriage is not how it is supposed work you are supposed to be a team. She is not a teammate she is you boss. How would you have dealt with it on the job if some worker treated you like that? Why is this any different?

Until you really see how poorly she has treated you and how totally unfair she is I don't believe you will change. Where is your outrage?


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## john117

All the advise given is a good start. However...

You may want to look deeper into root causes. If you hadn't mentioned her behavior much I would have gone with the flow, but her behavior is not typical unless there's some serious culture, family of origin, skeletons in the closet, or mental health issues.

What culture is she from? You? How's her immediate family? How's her interaction with family?


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## Herschel

If you won't leave her, you have already lost. You have resigned yourself to live in an awful marriage. That's on you and not on her. Maybe I'm crazy, and I am, but how could you want to be with someone who has no desire to treat you like her husband or even like a member of the family. 

Anyway, your best bet is to train yourself that you can leave her. sometimes the only way to keep someone is by risking losing them. I'm a believer that, in hay case, just lose them.


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## NickTheChemist

Her culture is mid-west white folk. I'm more southern, but mostly Midwest hard working type. City, not rural. Her parents are together, but they bicker and fight. Her dad is passive and her mom is disrespectful to him. Her dad has an awful temper. Her brothers are pretty good guys, but super stubborn and argumentative. Both alpha type. 

I have grown up a pastors son in the shadow of my brother. We are taught that we are supposed to humble ourselves and serve snd love our spouses with actions snd words and to be gracious and forgiving. She has taken advantige of this in me, so I am changing


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## Malaise

john117 said:


> All the advise given is a good start. However...
> 
> You may want to look deeper into root causes. If you hadn't mentioned her behavior much I would have gone with the flow, but her behavior is not typical unless there's some serious culture, family of origin, skeletons in the closet, or mental health issues.
> 
> What culture is she from? You? How's her immediate family? How's her interaction with family?


CSA?
@Thor


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## farsidejunky

I don't think Keke was suggesting she was on the spectrum.

@Uptown


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## farsidejunky

If you keep doing what you are doing, Nick, you will keep getting what you are getting.

It really is that simple.


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## 225985

t.


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## NickTheChemist

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> People often do not want what they can so easily obtain. Their strongest want is for something they cannot have, why want what you already have? You are too easy to obtain. Find a hobby and entertain yourself, stop asking how she is and how her day went. Stop telling her you are masturbating and stop trying to initiate intimacy. Take up golf or some hobby that takes up your time and stop being so available. Take the kids out to the park. Also stop doing so much around the house, she is a SAHM let her do something.
> 
> This will serve two purposes in that it will make you less "easy" and it will help you detach and find happiness outside of her. We may soon be reading a post from her asking for help on how to get her husband interested again. Good fortune to you.


Thank you for your input. I am already taking your advise snd advise of others on this thread. My kids are my hobby and we are going out and doing more without my wife Shen wife is in a sour mood. Much less stressful to me. Wife will come around in time. I'm just going to stop trying to fix it for s long while and see if that makes me more attractive to her. I'm happier when I care less about keeping her happy and maybe she will want that


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## Abc123wife

NickTheChemist said:


> Her culture is mid-west white folk. I'm more southern, but mostly Midwest hard working type. City, not rural. Her parents are together, but they bicker and fight. Her dad is passive and her mom is disrespectful to him. Her dad has an awful temper. Her brothers are pretty good guys, but super stubborn and argumentative. Both alpha type.
> 
> I have grown up a pastors son in the shadow of my brother. We are taught that we are supposed to humble ourselves and serve snd love our spouses with actions snd words and to be gracious and forgiving. She has taken advantige of this in me, so I am changing


You are so used to being verbally abused and neglected that you do not realize how horrible your marriage is. Are you really wanting to live another 50+ years under these circumstance? Sounds like torture.

Until you are willing to lose the marriage if need be, it will never change. What kind of an example are you setting for your kids? If you have sons, do you want them to marry someone who treats them like crap and have them think they have to accept it? If you have daughters, do you want them to grow up thinking it is OK to treat their husband like your wife treats you?

Can you set aside a block of time and tell your wife that the two of you need to talk (accept no excuses). Let her know that this is not the marriage you envisioned and it has to either change or end. Let her know you can no longer live in an environment where it is acceptable to be disrespected especially in front of your children. Maybe have some marriage counselling set up (and tell her she must seek individual counselling as well). Tell her it will be discussed there further, but major changes must be made for both if you. If she refuses, let her know it is time for her to get a job and get ready to help support the family since she will soon be a single mom. Yes, you will be doing a lot of CS and alimony but you can recover and build a much better life for yourself and your children who will respect you more for not tolerating the abuse.


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## 225985

t.


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## NickTheChemist

She's not physically cheating--when she's alone without the kiddos, she is shopping and buying stuff we need. When she's out she calls me often--I think she gets lonely or something. I am far from controlling and trust her. She's not cheating while she's out.

Facebook, texting, Snapchat, I have no clue. I don't get into her business or ever check her phone or anything like that. I'm not controlling. She stays in contact with family of her ex snd that's a little weird, but no threat to me how I see it.


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## NickTheChemist

I will. I love to read and she won't think anything of it. Never asks what I'm reading anyway.


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## NickTheChemist

I worded that very poorly. I don't ever just do it in her presence. That could be sexual harassment if it was unwanted. Rather, I have talked to her about it once or twice over the past few years and invited her to join that part of my sexuality if she wanted--letting her know she is always my first choice


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## MEM2020

Nick,
All these situations are predicated on a core theme. And that theme isn't your willingness to leave her, it is instead your willingness to LET HER LEAVE YOU. 

And that is really it. That's the gating factor here. And I have read nothing so far to indicate that you are willing to assert yourself in a manner that would actually upset her. 

See the lightbulb moment for a crap partner happens when they say: I am seriously thinking about leaving. And you reply with: I think that's likely best for both of us. 

And that's the moment they either remember that they once loved you, or they just feel a surge of relief. 





NickTheChemist said:


> I have few friends outside of work that I talk with regularly. No female friends because it would be too much a temptation to me. I have been emotionally and sexually neglected by my wife for so long that I feel vulnerable and avoid it all together.
> 
> It is difficult when young attractive women make advances towards me or flirt and I'm sure I seem socially awkward to them ducking out of conversations and avoiding contact at all. I would not cheat and have not. It's heartbreaking when I am working so hard to be strong and true and my wife hardly notices me when I come home.
> 
> I wish that my wife could see other women giving me eyes or making advances--maybe she would realize that other women want what is so comepletyband hopelessly hers and hers alone.


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## john117

The sane partner will heed a well timed and delivered message if he or she has skin in the game. 

If the partner has no skin in the game financially / otherwise or is not sane in the conventional manner, it's like us threatening North Korea.


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## sokillme

NickTheChemist said:


> Thank you for your input. I am already taking your advise snd advise of others on this thread. My kids are my hobby and we are going out and doing more without my wife Shen wife is in a sour mood. Much less stressful to me. Wife will come around in time. I'm just going to stop trying to fix it for s long while and see if that makes me more attractive to her. I'm happier when I care less about keeping her happy and maybe she will want that


Personally after reading a lot of these threads I am really against detaching without saying why you are detaching. I am not saying you have to be whiny about it but I think you need to be forceful about it. "Wife I love you but I have really grown tired of the disrespectful way you have been treating me lately, frankly I need some space." Throw some scripture at her as well (I don't feel like looking it up, but taking to you like she is is not honoring you). 

The first reason is there are so many threads where detachment leads to cheating. But in those cases the person who cheats really loses confidence in the relationship. In part because the don't know why this is happening. She needs to get the reason so she has motive to change. Also quit being afraid of your wife. So she is grumpy. Just call her on it. Relationships are hard in that way sometimes, but it's like pruning. You need to tell people how you expect them to treat you, even your wife. 

This is the second reason, just detaching just continues the passive aggressive behavior that causes women to lose respect for you. A strong assertive man is not afraid to tell anyone I will only accept respect. Not addressing the elephant in the room and being assertive, but detaching just looks like you are running away. Doesn't project strength. You need to stop being so nice. Unfortunately you have one of those wives you have to treat like a kid for a little bit. Consequences. 

Finally do you have access to her phone? Check it, look for apps like "words with friends", her txt messages, check here email deleted folder. Also who pays your phone bill? Check that as well see if she is texting a number a lot. I get it your wife is a christian and would never cheat. Sorry after living around lots of Christians, very involved in the church I might add, and reading these threads that means nothing. read this. At the very least make up some excuse to see her phone and see how easily she hands it over. Protect your family, that is your role.


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## Uptown

@*Farsidejunky*, thanks for the callout. 



NickTheChemist said:


> She is not on the spectrum, but you are very clever to think of this possibility. I am, though you would never know if you met me.


Nick, your being on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum (aka "Asperger's") would explain why you are able to make such a good living as a chemist, LOL. Yet, because it somewhat distorts your perception of your W's intentions and motivations, it likely makes it more difficult for us to get a cohesive picture of what type of behavior your W is exhibiting. 

The biggest puzzle is why you claim to adore a "wonderful woman" who -- except for a few sensational sexual experiences a year -- is cold and rude and humiliates you in front of your own children. At issue is whether your W is a normal, healthy woman who has simply lost all feelings of love and affection for you -- or, as several respondents suggest, she is exhibiting warning signs for moderate or strong traits of a mental disorder that was caused perhaps by her angry, abusive father. 

I cannot answer that question. I therefore will explore a few of the possibilities in hopes that one of them triggers a flood of new information from you that fills in some of the gaps. Importantly, the following discussion is an attempt to help you lock down what warning signs (i.e., behavioral symptoms) you are seeing. Although it should be easy for you to spot any strong symptoms that occur, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe and persistent as to constitute a full-blown disorder.

*High Functioning Autism.* Like @*SunCMars* (post 27), my first thought was that your W's aloofness, coldness, and lack of communication may be a red flag for what used to be called "Asperger's." Yet, because that is a condition that starts in childhood and persists to some degree for a lifetime, it seems to be ruled out by your statement, "She has not always been this way." 

You explain that her behavior became cold and verbally abusive only "when we got married." After the wedding, the behavior issues started "early on" because "she became frustrated with our status and income and stressed about what we didn't have."
*
Borderline Personality Disorder.* The way your closeness and sexual activity went off a cliff following your wedding is common when a person has strong traits of a PD like BPD. During the courtship period, the partner's infatuation with you holds her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. Her bad behaviors thus don't reveal themselves until her infatuation starts evaporating. At that point, both fears return and you cannot avoid triggering them. Moreover, several behaviors you describe -- i.e., strong verbal abuse, sudden rages, and always being "The Victim" who blames you nearly every misfortune -- are classic warning signs for BPD.

Yet, if your W really did exhibit a pattern of strong BPD symptoms, you should be seeing signs of strong irrational jealousy (i.e., fear of abandonment) and very controlling actions. And you would be seeing unstable behavior, e.g., rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you). And you would be seeing an inability to regulate her own emotions or control her impulses. Significantly, although these are essential features of BPD behavior, you seem to describe none of them occurring. The closest you get to describing instability are her angry outbursts in response to your getting close and intimate. If I understand you correctly, she otherwise is a very emotionally stable person.

*Narcissistic PD.* Like BPD and the other PDs, NPD is a spectrum disorder. This means we all exhibit NPD (and BPD) traits to some extent (at a low level if we are healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits NPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits strong and persistent NPD traits. If that were true, however, your W would be incapable of loving anyone, including her own children. In contrast, you are describing a woman who, despite being cold and verbally abusive, seems to love you and the three children. 

*Schizoid PD.* Your description of her being so happy when alone by herself and expressing little affection seems somewhat consistent with a subcategory of SPD called "Secret Schizoid." Actually, it is not an official subcategory but, rather, one that is favored by some psychologists. I therefore suggest you take a quick look at this description of Secret Schizoid to see if it sounds very familiar. 

Generally, people exhibiting strong SPD traits like to be alone and have little interest in expressing affection. Some psychologists believe there is a subgroup of those folks who nonetheless have learned to develop a social mask that makes them appear to be very outgoing and affectionate -- but that mask cannot be maintained for very long (e.g., past the wedding). Although I am skeptical that this issue applies in your situation, it may be worth a quick look. Take care, Nick.


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## NickTheChemist

Uptown said:


> @*Farsidejunky*, thanks for the callout.
> 
> Nick, your being on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum (aka "Asperger's") would explain why you are able to make such a good living as a chemist, LOL. Yet, because it somewhat distorts your perception of your W's intentions and motivations, it likely makes it more difficult for us to get a cohesive picture of what type of behavior your W is exhibiting.
> 
> The biggest puzzle is why you claim to adore a "wonderful woman" who -- except for a few sensational sexual experiences a year -- is cold and rude and humiliates you in front of your own children. At issue is whether your W is a normal, healthy woman who has simply lost all feelings of love and affection for you -- or, as several respondents suggest, she is exhibiting warning signs for moderate or strong traits of a mental disorder that was caused perhaps by her angry, abusive father.
> 
> I cannot answer that question. I therefore will explore a few of the possibilities in hopes that one of them triggers a flood of new information from you that fills in some of the gaps. Importantly, the following discussion is an attempt to help you lock down what warning signs (i.e., behavioral symptoms) you are seeing. Although it should be easy for you to spot any strong symptoms that occur, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe and persistent as to constitute a full-blown disorder.
> 
> *High Functioning Autism.* Like @*SunCMars* (post 27), my first thought was that your W's aloofness, coldness, and lack of communication may be a red flag for what used to be called "Asperger's." Yet, because that is a condition that starts in childhood and persists to some degree for a lifetime, it seems to be ruled out by your statement, "She has not always been this way."
> 
> You explain that her behavior became cold and verbally abusive only "when we got married." After the wedding, the behavior issues started "early on" because "she became frustrated with our status and income and stressed about what we didn't have."
> *
> Borderline Personality Disorder.* The way your closeness and sexual activity went off a cliff following your wedding is common when a person has strong traits of a PD like BPD. During the courtship period, the partner's infatuation with you holds her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. Her bad behaviors thus don't reveal themselves until her infatuation starts evaporating. At that point, both fears return and you cannot avoid triggering them. Moreover, several behaviors you describe -- i.e., strong verbal abuse, sudden rages, and always being "The Victim" who blames you nearly every misfortune -- are classic warning signs for BPD.
> 
> Yet, if your W really did exhibit a pattern of strong BPD symptoms, you should be seeing signs of strong irrational jealousy (i.e., fear of abandonment) and very controlling actions. And you would be seeing unstable behavior, e.g., rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you). And you would be seeing an inability to regulate her own emotions or control her impulses. Significantly, although these are essential features of BPD behavior, you seem to describe none of them occurring. The closest you get to describing instability are her angry outbursts in response to your getting close and intimate. If I understand you correctly, she otherwise is a very emotionally stable person.
> 
> *Narcissistic PD.* Like BPD and the other PDs, NPD is a spectrum disorder. This means we all exhibit NPD (and BPD) traits to some extent (at a low level if we are healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits NPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits strong and persistent NPD traits. If that were true, however, your W would be incapable of loving anyone, including her own children. In contrast, you are describing a woman who, despite being cold and verbally abusive, seems to love you and the three children.
> 
> *Schizoid PD.* Your description of her being so happy when alone by herself and expressing little affection seems somewhat consistent with a subcategory of SPD called "Secret Schizoid." Actually, it is not an official subcategory but, rather, one that is favored by some psychologists. I therefore suggest you take a quick look at this description of Secret Schizoid to see if it sounds very familiar.
> 
> Generally, people exhibiting strong SPD traits like to be alone and have little interest in expressing affection. Some psychologists believe there is a subgroup of those folks who nonetheless have learned to develop a social mask that makes them appear to be very outgoing and affectionate -- but that mask cannot be maintained for very long (e.g., past the wedding). Although I am skeptical that this issue applies in your situation, it may be worth a quick look. Take care, Nick.


Thank you so much. I feel like I should pay you for an hour of therapy, lol. Really, thank you. 

I should clarify that I had a full physiological evaluation at age 19 in order to be allowed more time on college exams for attention issues. My IQ is 140. The psychologist thought that I was likely dealing with some high-functioning asburgers traits, but was able to hide them very well due to my intelligence and watching and mimicking my peers. Side note: I discussed all of this with my wife early in dating. 

We were married 9 months after we met, so things progressed quickly by most people's standards--I feel that may be helpful information here.

I highly doubt she has any spectrum traits. She functions very well socially and maintains a few very healthy friendships. People generally love her because she is intelegent, considerate, thoughtful and creative. 

She is a much better friend than spouse to me and as odd as it may sound in this context, we know each other very well.


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## 225985

sokillme said:


> Personally after reading a lot of these threads I am really against detaching without saying why you are detaching. I am not saying you have to be whiny about it but I think you need to be forceful about it. "Wife I love you but I have really grown tired of the disrespectful way you have been treating me lately, frankly I need some space." Throw some scripture at her as well (I don't feel like looking it up, but taking to you like she is is not honoring you).
> 
> 
> 
> The first reason is there are so many threads where detachment leads to cheating. But in those cases the person who cheats really loses confidence in the relationship. In part because the don't know why this is happening. She needs to get the reason so she has motive to change. Also quit being afraid of your wife. So she is grumpy. Just call her on it. Relationships are hard in that way sometimes, but it's like pruning. You need to tell people how you expect them to treat you, even your wife.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the second reason, just detaching just continues the passive aggressive behavior that causes women to lose respect for you. A strong assertive man is not afraid to tell anyone I will only accept respect. Not addressing the elephant in the room and being assertive, but detaching just looks like you are running away. Doesn't project strength. You need to stop being so nice. Unfortunately you have one of those wives you have to treat like a kid for a little bit. Consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally do you have access to her phone? Check it, look for apps like "words with friends", her txt messages, check here email deleted folder. Also who pays your phone bill? Check that as well see if she is texting a number a lot. I get it your wife is a christian and would never cheat. Sorry after living around lots of Christians, very involved in the church I might add, and reading these threads that means nothing. read this. At the very least make up some excuse to see her phone and see how easily she hands it over. Protect your family, that is your role.



.


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## 225985

.


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## Andy1001

blueinbr said:


> Nick,
> 
> It seems you and your wife are two reagents that are unreactive. You need to change the solvent, increase the temperature, add a catalyst - do something.
> 
> Adding more reagent ( you, in terms of you cooking and cleaning for a sahm) is a waste of resources, and costs.
> 
> Your wife might be chemically inert, or just unreactive to you.


Instead of chemistry it's easier to use physics.
They are poles apart.


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## 225985

.


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## NickTheChemist

blueinbr said:


> Nick,
> 
> It seems you and your wife are two reagents that are unreactive. You need to change the solvent, increase the temperature, add a catalyst - do something.
> 
> Adding more reagent ( you, in terms of you cooking and cleaning for a sahm) is a waste of resources, and costs.
> 
> Your wife might be chemically inert, or just unreactive to you.


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## NickTheChemist

Solid chemistry examples. You're saying maybe I should reverse phase, lol


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## sokillme

Uptown said:


> @*Farsidejunky*Nick, your being on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum (aka "Asperger's") would explain why you are able to make such a good living as a chemist, LOL. Yet, because it somewhat distorts your perception of your W's intentions and motivations, it likely makes it more difficult for us to get a cohesive picture of what type of behavior your W is exhibiting.


I have to agree with this.


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## sokillme

NickTheChemist said:


> Thank you so much. I feel like I should pay you for an hour of therapy, lol. Really, thank you.
> 
> I should clarify that I had a full physiological evaluation at age 19 in order to be allowed more time on college exams for attention issues. My IQ is 140. The psychologist thought that I was likely dealing with some high-functioning asburgers traits, but was able to hide them very well due to my intelligence and watching and mimicking my peers. Side note: I discussed all of this with my wife early in dating.
> 
> We were married 9 months after we met, so things progressed quickly by most people's standards--I feel that may be helpful information here.
> 
> I highly doubt she has any spectrum traits. She functions very well socially and maintains a few very healthy friendships. People generally love her because she is intelegent, considerate, thoughtful and creative.
> 
> She is a much better friend than spouse to me and as odd as it may sound in this context, we know each other very well.


I wonder if there is some underlying anger and resentment that she may be dealing with from a past event that you are not fully aware of because of the way your mind processes emotional responses. No offense, but my mother works with kids with asburgers and I have also worked with enough people on the spectrum having been in the tech industry for over 15 years, so I feel I have some idea, though small. For instance you say you mimic social cues, which attests to the fact that your emotional reactions/evaluations my not be consistent with the feelings your wife may have from time to time. 

Keeping that in mind is it possible there could be some instances where you are saying things to her that she interprets as cruel where this is not your intentions? I have been in enough meetings where people have been very curt or even insulting to colleagues to know that this happens. For the one doing the insulting it can come as a total shock that this is the way it is interpreted. In their mind they are just being "efficient" with their words. 

This would be the type of incident I am talking about.


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## NickTheChemist

Sure, it is possible. I have overcome most all issues and am quite normal now. I miss more non-verbal cues than most people and I have had to learn to control anxiety triggered by social situations, but that is the extent of my struggles. 

All of my friends would call me kind and gracious and I doubt anyone would expect that I was once told by an expert that I may have some mild autistic traits snd/or social anxiety


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## NickTheChemist

I am reading no more me nice guy now and loving it. It was written for guys like me.


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## anchorwatch

NickTheChemist said:


> I am reading no more me nice guy now and loving it. It was written for guys like me.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner...

Hold on to Your NUTs
8 Tools That Will Change Your Life


"I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?"


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## Steve1000

NickTheChemist said:


> I am reading no more me nice guy now and loving it. It was written for guys like me.


You will always be a nice, kind person and that is a very good thing. It becomes a bad trait when we let others treat us poorly and when we are too timid to stand up for ourselves at the risk of upsetting people like your wife. If will take awhile for you to adjust life-long habits. Don't do it to try to impress your wife because there's nothing you could ever do to impress her. You can however become impressive to other woman and become proud of yourself.


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## NickTheChemist

It is going to be s long road for me and I'm trying to work through my nice guy syndrome and understand the flaws of my approach to relationships so that the changes will be real and lasting. The attention from other women has never been a problem. I have never acted on it, of course. I'm rather awkward when a woman shows interest in me and tend to run away like Joseph from Potiphar's wife (biblical reference). Sucks to be so deprived by your wife. Maybe that, too will change in time.

Thank you for the encouragement. I'm reading every chance I get no will likely re-read it when I finish. 

I also recommend "no more mr nice guy" to guys like me. We can become more complete, integrated men.


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## Faithful Wife

NMMNG has a forum, too. I suggest you check it out, some of the guys there have been recovered or recovering for a long time. Others are newbies like you. They can give a lot of feedback about how to apply the book to your life.


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## NickTheChemist

Faithful Wife said:


> NMMNG has a forum, too. I suggest you check it out, some of the guys there have been recovered or recovering for a long time. Others are newbies like you. They can give a lot of feedback about how to apply the book to your life.


Thanks for the tip. What is NMMNG? I'm guessing another forum site.

Side note: like your tag line about feminism, lol


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## anchorwatch

NMMNG = No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group

It's not what it once was. Like with all open forums, caveat emptor.


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## NickTheChemist

Steve1000 said:


> You will always be a nice, kind person and that is a very good thing. It becomes a bad trait when we let others treat us poorly and when we are too timid to stand up for ourselves at the risk of upsetting people like your wife. If will take awhile for you to adjust life-long habits. Don't do it to try to impress your wife because there's nothing you could ever do to impress her. You can however become impressive to other woman and become proud of yourself.


This advise has been very helpful. I just realized I did not reply and I apologize for that. 

Update: I am almost finished with the book and plan to re-read it and map out a plan when I finish. I am doing this for myself and life is much better already. Some chapters I had to take breaks on because I identify so many mistakes I have made and how many hurtful passive-aggressive things I have done. 

I hate the patterns I have formed and I am using that to help fuel change. My wife is starting to come around somewhat. Honestly, she doesn't pay me much attention these days (days pass before she notices I've shaved a beard or gotten haircut, Ext).

My thinking is that slow and steady progress will be lasting progress. Being sex-starved in the meantime is awful. Awful! But I'm powering through it and a happier person already because of the positive changes I have made. 

Biggest changes so far have been:

removing my emotional center from my wife and puting it back on myself-letting her just be mad sometimes and not getting anxiety over her down moods.

Making my needs a priority 

Addressing and owning the counter-productive way I have been approach relationships.

Admitting and accepting my imperfections


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## NickTheChemist

anchorwatch said:


> NMMNG = No More Mr. Nice Guy


Thanks!


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## Keke24

@NickTheChemist, that is so good to hear. 

The very idea of the plight of nice guys, is a bit saddening because typical nice guys have such good intentions. The nice guy situation is definitely one where too much of a good thing, just isn't good for anyone involved.

I'm glad you found the book so insightful, some guys like you have a really hard time grasping what its author presents. What I found most important was the identification of aspects of one's childhood that lead to men developing nice guy tendencies. It helped me understand that my ex was this way not because he just wanted to be overly helpful and kind but because he had deep-seated issues stemming from his childhood. 

I hope that you continue progressing, solely for your sake and not that of your wife. It will be to her detriment if she doesn't learn recognize and value the serious effort you're putting into addressing your issues. Although secretly I hope you become a better person and kick her to the curb if there are no improvements on her end...


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## NickTheChemist

Keke24 said:


> @NickTheChemist, that is so good to hear.
> 
> The very idea of the plight of nice guys, is a bit saddening because typical nice guys have such good intentions. The nice guy situation is definitely one where too much of a good thing, just isn't good for anyone involved.
> 
> I'm glad you found the book so insightful, some guys like you have a really hard time grasping what its author presents. What I found most important was the identification of aspects of one's childhood that lead to men developing nice guy tendencies. It helped me understand that my ex was this way not because he just wanted to be overly helpful and kind but because he had deep-seated issues stemming from his childhood.
> 
> I hope that you continue progressing, solely for your sake and not that of your wife. It will be to her detriment if she doesn't learn recognize and value the serious effort you're putting into addressing your issues. Although secretly I hope you become a better person and kick her to the curb if there are no improvements on her end...





anchorwatch said:


> Winner, winner, chicken dinner...
> 
> Hold on to Your NUTs
> 8 Tools That Will Change Your Life
> 
> 
> "I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?"



Dude, these threads are golden--I've already spent hours reading through them. Thank you very much


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## NickTheChemist

Keke24 said:


> @NickTheChemist, that is so good to hear.
> 
> The very idea of the plight of nice guys, is a bit saddening because typical nice guys have such good intentions. The nice guy situation is definitely one where too much of a good thing, just isn't good for anyone involved.
> 
> I'm glad you found the book so insightful, some guys like you have a really hard time grasping what its author presents. What I found most important was the identification of aspects of one's childhood that lead to men developing nice guy tendencies. It helped me understand that my ex was this way not because he just wanted to be overly helpful and kind but because he had deep-seated issues stemming from his childhood.
> 
> .
> 
> I hope that you continue progressing, solely for your sake and not that of your wife. It will be to her detriment if she doesn't learn recognize and value the serious effort you're putting into addressing your issues. Although secretly I hope you become a better person and kick her to the curb if there are no improvements on her end...


Lol, I'll never kick her to the curb, but thank you for being on my side. She is a good woman and the mother of my 3 children. I started this journey to get closer to her--and that is still something I desperately want--but I am continuing for my own sake. If I can kick my crappy NG tendencies to the curb than I will be able to enjoy the rest of my life more fully--maybe my wife will find that sexy some day. Maybe we will never be compatible again concerning intimacy. Either way I am pressing forward.

My childhood was kinda screwy. My parents were pastors and we were very poor. They believed that my older brother was anointed by God and showered him with praise and attention while I was in the background. I was home schooled through freshman year and isolated. It was lonely, but I was close to my brother. I'm not complaining-- Many people have it way worse. I'm able to identify the roots of my toxic shame


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## NickTheChemist

sokillme said:


> None of the stuff you are talking about lifting weights and getting hobbies is going to work unless you demand respect. I am not saying yell and scream, what i am saying it if she is disrespectful disengage. Your marriage is not how it is supposed work you are supposed to be a team. She is not a teammate she is you boss. How would you have dealt with it on the job if some worker treated you like that? Why is this any different?
> 
> Until you really see how poorly she has treated you and how totally unfair she is I don't believe you will change. Where is your outrage?


Hey, this has been very helpful-I have used your advise. Thank you.


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## NickTheChemist

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I have to admit that you come off as horrifically needy. That is SUCH a complete turnoff to a woman to have some guy hovering at her feet all the time, putting her on a pedestal and begging her to love him or for a pat on the head.
> 
> She's completely and totally emotionally disengaged from you and has been, for a long long time.
> 
> I don't know of any magic cure to change her feelings and 'make' her love you again.
> 
> Sorry.


You hit the nail on the head. Thank you for your direct words. This was tough to read a month ago, but undeniably true and something I needed to confront and admit. 

I have made drastic changes already to myself and attitude towards all of my relationships and I am already happier for doing so.

This is just the beginning of a long journey and I am changing for myself and making my needs more of a priority. 

The wife seems happier, too, (although there is little intimacy of any kind and zero sexual contact/conversation and no kissing except the occasional tight-lipped peck.)

The relationship is more peaceful, but we seem just like room mates or good friends--not partners and DEFINITELY not lovers right now.

Could it be that she will need several months of me cooling it down completely like this before she will respond again to to me showing her love?

I am being kind and gentle, but not going out of my way to *do things for her* as I used to. She seems at ease and less stressed. I am okay with this arrangement for now--as long as it is ultimately going somewhere. 

I have started to apply some of my work attitude at home. For years I have been alpha on the job (buisiness owner, boss, firefighter, supervisor) and passive/beta/let me meet your every need and want at the expense of my own well being at home. The passive home person that I have been is disgusting to me know and I won't go back to being that way or let my son grow up thinking that this is how a husband should act.

Right now my priorities are peace and working on myself and being an awesome father. It would really help to have some relief for these damned blue balls, but I'll survive.

Better things and more work and improvement are in my future. Hopefully an intimate marriage is too.


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## NickTheChemist

Faithful Wife said:


> Focus on yourself, instead of on her. Focus on your health, your well being (aside from sex), your interests, your desires, your hobbies, your own body. Work on your independence, your autonomy, your self reliance.
> 
> Anyone in your position should do this. The reason you are in the position you are in is that you've focused on HER too much. She cannot heal you, though it may seem that she could. It may seem that the slightest touch from her or the smallest of gestures could raise you up. But that's not actually the case. All those things would do would be to condition you to be dependent on her providing those conditions.
> 
> If you can reach a place where you are ok and in balance regardless of what your spouse does, you will begin turning the momentum around from "you can make or break me", which is ultimately unattractive in cases like this, to "you can add to my joy but you cannot make or break me", which is very attractive in almost all cases.
> 
> No More Mr. Nice Guy would be a good book for you. They also have an online forum. That would be a good resource for you, too.


This was/is very helpful and I should have responded sooner. I am almost finish with the book you and others have suggested and very glad that I read it. I've had to confront some very uncomfortable truths about myself and re-visit my screwy, lonely childhood, but I am becoming a better man for it. Thank you.


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## NickTheChemist

Update:

I have made very real progress. It took a little while processing and accepting everything--and then being vulnerable and telling the whole truth to my wife. It was very difficult to talk about how I was feeling because it made her feel awful. 

Now more of everything is out in the open. i catch myself returning to bad habits and make better decisions regularly. The nice guy facade is feeling less snd less comfortable and I'm am happier and getting more comfortable with who I really am and meeting my needs as well as asking others to help me meet them.


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## MEM2020

Nick,

Awful temper = emotionally weak

Apex male physicality comes from a hormonal blend of testosterone and adrenaline. 

The irony is that - the same things that maximize your chance of success in a fist fight - absolutely cripple you in a non physical conflict. 

It's a temporal thing. We - us men - are designed for 10 minutes to an hour of brawling. 

Not - a multi day low intensity conflict. 

Typical guy - after the argument - if it is not resolved - he is hemorrhaging energy (emotionally and physically) until it is resolved. 

Which is why the guy often apologizes even when it's obvious his wife was in the wrong - because the cost of conflict is so much higher for him. 





NickTheChemist said:


> Her culture is mid-west white folk. I'm more southern, but mostly Midwest hard working type. City, not rural. Her parents are together, but they bicker and fight. Her dad is passive and her mom is disrespectful to him. Her dad has an awful temper. Her brothers are pretty good guys, but super stubborn and argumentative. Both alpha type.
> 
> I have grown up a pastors son in the shadow of my brother. We are taught that we are supposed to humble ourselves and serve snd love our spouses with actions snd words and to be gracious and forgiving. She has taken advantige of this in me, so I am changing


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## kag123

NickTheChemist said:


> Update:
> 
> I have made very real progress. It took a little while processing and accepting everything--and then being vulnerable and telling the whole truth to my wife. It was very difficult to talk about how I was feeling because it made her feel awful.
> 
> Now more of everything is out in the open. i catch myself returning to bad habits and make better decisions regularly. The nice guy facade is feeling less snd less comfortable and I'm am happier and getting more comfortable with who I really am and meeting my needs as well as asking others to help me meet them.


How has your wife been reacting to your changes?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## NickTheChemist

Her response has been positive. the changes have been gradual and come slowly. I feel like I am undoing a decade of bad habits. Now that it has been a few months, she seems to accepting the positive changes as my new normal. For a while she seemed aprehinsive--waiting for the other shoe to drop. 

There is more open communication now and I can tell that I am slowly regaining her respect.

The sex has been a but more frequent, but still less than once a week (she's 30, I'm 31), but we are taking about sex a bit more, which is good. 

I'm trying to be very patient as she is legitimately exhausted most days from taking care of our 3 young children, and breastfeeding is a huge drag on libido for her. 

I am much happier -- less stress and more peace in my life now. There is still so much more that I want for us--it is a long road, but we are slowly moving in the right direction


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## NickTheChemist

Great post. Thank you. I will remember this snd believe that you are on point here.


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