# My Wife is Lazy



## PKKKLK (Oct 16, 2012)

Despite the thread title my wife is not entirely lazy but overall she doesn't do much house work.

I have seen other women with 2 or 3 kids and they manage to keep a clean house. There is always a pile of clothes that hasn't been sorted, she often sleeps into 8 or 9 in the morning then she showers for about 1 hour and by the time she is dressed it is sometimes midday. She doesn't drive, she's not that interested in sex, she doesn't clean the house, she's an unimaginative and pretty bad cook to name several things.Even though I only get dinner. Not only that but she complains about not having a clothes dryer and dish washer. I guess with those items she gets to do even less.
Did I marry a dud?
She's not a bad or nasty person but I just can't get her motivated to do anything.
I blame the way she was raised and never taught responsibility.
I just don't want our daughter to turn out the same.


I work for myself and study part time at Univeristy, pay the bills and I swear she thinks that money will always be at her disposal and grows on trees.
I don't mind she doesn't work because she takes care of our three year old daughter. I know raising a child is a full time job but before we had her my wife still didn't find time to do much around the house. The house is always dirty, she leaves expired food in the fridge, she rarely ever cleans and if I ever attempt to bring any of this up in a nice way she gets the $hits and gets all defensive. The shower is always filthy etc etc. I could go on forever here! 
I do love her but I get so frustrated and she thinks because we are reasonable comfortable (not rich) that she is better than everybody else. I have my faults but I am my own worst critic and am always looking at ways to be a better person and to improve myself (hence the uni studies)
I often play with my daughter and often take her to the park to play. My wife never does any of these things. If there is a piece of rubbish on the floor she will just keep walking past it. I will pick it up as I walk past and put it in the bin. She's often grumpy meaning when she is in a happy mood I lap as much of it up as I can because she is fun to be around when she is happy. However, she has no interests and no hobbies. She admits she is boring. I know this sounds terrible but the only worthwhile thing she has ever contributed to was to bring our daugher into the world and she almost screwed that up to.
I guess I just have to live with this but it drives me crazy.
Some may criticize me for not doing jobs around the house. Well, I earn the money, am going to University to improve all our lives and do all the outside jobs.


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## Skyye (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi Pkklk! I just signed on today and yours was the first post I read, I can see your situation being bery frustrating. I had a few thoughts though. I am not a doctor but do work in the medical field.

It sounds to me like she has depression, every point you made can be traced to that. As you are probably aware depression doesn't have to look sad or obvious of course, it can be moody, not cleaning, lack of desire to do activities with children/pets, lack of libido.

Another very common thing in women too, which I have had and suffered a few of the points you made, is low iron, I had lack of desire to do anything, the doctor didn't know how I made it to work in the morning. lol This is very underdiagnosed, or they will say, your iron is a bit low, lets get that up, but they forget to tell you (well in my friends case) that "you better get on that iron, this could effect your marriage, no libido, no drive, grumpy etc..." Fortunately I knew this story before I became anaemic.

I am going thru what you have stated above right now with my husband and really feel for you. Slightly different story but...

Good luck!


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

I used to be like that PKK. I have a heart murmur after the children and anemia. WHen I get my monthly visitor, I can hardly leave the bed. I am always tired. When I remember to take my pills, I feel better for a bit. Sometimes the house is absolutely disgusting. For the most part I keep it tidy. I have 2 children, a 4yr old and an almost 2 year old girl. Haven't taken them to the park in months because I'm so tired.

Leaving trash on the ground when she walks past it though.. That's gross. She sounds like she has an entitlement issue. 

She is a full time maid and nanny. Might as well be a good one! I'm decent at it. OH! and have her avoid fast foods.. They really take it out of you. Make me way more tired than usual..


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## searaydave (Oct 16, 2012)

I am in a similar situation. What I have found is that some of it can be attributed to lack of energy (low iron, birth control pills, depression) but a lot of it is due to poor upbringing. Look at her mother and how she keeps house. 

With my situation, both my girls are now 'lazy' and pigs....walking past garbage on the floor, actually throwing gargage on the floor, making messes and not cleaning them up. It has now gotten to the point where no one can keep up with the messes.

This type of enviroment can cause someone to stray from the marriage (as it did for me). Take control of this situation early and don't let years go by before you address it (and it's too late).


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

PKKKLK said:


> I guess I just have to live with this but it drives me crazy.


With all due respect, you make a choice to let it drive you crazy. Yes, it would be better if your wife did more but she's your wife and the mother of your child and she does what she does. Are you sure that your dissatisfaction is not due more to unmet expectations that to the situation at hand?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

No clothes dryer????

I think it would be very tough to live without a clothes dryer. We would have clothes hanging all over the place here. 

I know when I was young, my mother hung clothes on a 'clothes line' outside in the summer and 'inside all winter', but that was 40 years ago.

Your attitude of never helping is a problem. Help a bit with cleaning at home and it might get her motivated. Look into the health items that others have mentioned

Buy a clothes dryer!!!!


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## Desperate_Housewife (Oct 15, 2012)

I agree with the others. It sounds like depression or some other medical issue. Stop calling her lazy and get her to a doctor asap.

On another issue... I think it's rediculous that you think she's lazy just because she would like a dryer. Hanging clothes is a *****! Having a washer, dryer, and dishwasher allows a person more time *and energy* to do other things around the house. Ever think of that?

I have no doubt you are doing your best to be a good father and husband, but you're attitude towards your wife stinks. Do you love her? I only ask because your post is full of disgust rather than concern. Even though your daughter is 3 now, your wife could still be suffering from postpartum depression. Instead of being so down on her, why don't you try getting to the source of the problem and help her? Some women are just lazy housewives, but lets find out if there are other reasons why she is the way she is BEFORE jumping to that conclusion.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Did you marry her knowing she wasn't much of a house keeper? Or is this something that slowly started happening? Depression maybe, or something else going on perhaps. I know for me sometimes if I get out of the habit of doing something, its hard to sometimes get back into it. 

Since she has no interests or hobbies she may need to get out of the house more. If your child is 3 yrs old sometimes there are moms who get together with other moms and have play dates, that might be an option as well.

BTW make sure you do NOT call her lazy to her. That will not help anything and less likely to get any results, if anything she may just be resentful and do the opposite of what you want. Make sure you get to the root of WHY someone acts the way they do, Before you chalk it up to just being lazy.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Well, she could be lazy or she could be depressed or she could not really place value on cleaning. There are so many options. It's definite, though, that there are miles between the two of you in terms of how you want to live.

I have a sister whose house is always a complete disaster area & she's not depressed. She's now in her 50's & surprise, surprise, she's diagnosed with OCD. She's spent years sterilizing the dishes as everything around her fell to pieces.

I would tell her that you're not comfortable with your different expectations, suggest that she talk to a professional about possible treatment, and work on some practical solutions in the meantime (like a clothes dryer  and a swiffer).


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

How about offering to get the dryer and pay for a weekly housekeeper IF she uses her extra time to take your daughter to a weekly play date? Or to take her to a Mommy's Morning Out where she can then take up a hobby? 

I agree it could be depression, upbringing or a number of things but hiring a housekeeper and giving her motivation by way of a hobby might have good results.

Start out by telling her you love her (if you do - if not, just end it) and you are concerned about her. Don't nag. Offer to take her to a counselor to diagnose whether or not she suffers from depression. But meanwhile, get the housekeeper. It will keep you sane and she won't feel overwhelmed.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

In some countries washers and dryers are not common in apartments. The OP writes like he's from the UK so he may have grown up without one. Keeping a dirty house is a character flaw in my opinion. I'm not talking about stuff thrown about by the kids but actual filth and trash. She is most likely depressed or unhappy with her marriage.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> No clothes dryer????
> 
> I think it would be very tough to live without a clothes dryer. We would have clothes hanging all over the place here.
> 
> ...


Most people outside the US and Canada don't use a clothes dryer.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

First I agree she needs to be checked out physically. I also think she sounds depressed and if she is... you being mad and calling her lazy will make matters worse.

BUT I also know of a few lazy people... I had a friend like your wife once. She was not sick or depressed, she even admitted herself she's lazy. She laughed about how little she did around the house. Her h worked all day then came home and cleaned up the mess and she gave him a toasted sandwich for dinner if he was lucky. But she was always like that...from day one. Having kids just made her worse.
So her hubby knew what he was getting into.

What was your wifes childhood home like? Was your W tidy when you met her? Before you had your daughter?

I totally don't believe you should have to hire a housekeeper... she is home and it's HER job why should they have to pay someone else to clean up. If he was a SAHD it would be his job so i'm not being sexist. A housekeeper would mean she never has to take responsibility for HER work around their home.

But first and foremost I would insist that she have a physical so that any body/mind issues can be sorted if necessary. 

Goodluck!


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

waiwera said:


> First I agree she needs to be checked out physically. I also think she sounds depressed and if she is... you being mad and calling her lazy will make matters worse.
> 
> *BUT I also know of a few lazy people... I had a friend like your wife once. She was not sick or depressed, she even admitted herself she's lazy. She laughed about how little she did around the house. Her h worked all day then came home and cleaned up the mess and she gave him a toasted sandwich for dinner if he was lucky. But she was always like that...from day one. Having kids just made her worse.
> So her hubby knew what he was getting into.*
> ...


I'm glad someone acknowledged that some people are just flat out lazy.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

A stay at home mother is a full time job which includes keeping the house tidy, cooking, chores, etc.

How come she doesn't drive?

Also you say you married her knowing she was lazy.

Why did you expect her to change with a ring on her finger?

You do need to rule out depression first.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Pkkkkk...

I disagree with some about it maybe being a medical issue... And mostly agree with it being some upbringing. (maybe also some unhappiness in the marriage?)

Because: I for one am exactly like this. I am completely lazy.. and, honestly, somewhat selfish, about not cleaning the house. Clean Laundry piled so high on the sorting table... I don't know if I have enough hangers for them all. 3 loads on dirty laundry sitting outside of the bathroom.. Dishes in sink piled up.

However, I note that my husband, and grown child... do not do the chores either!! If either or both of them helped, then it wouldn't be so bad! (Plus, it would motivate me to clean up more often).

Now, I can't say that my mother completely let me "not do chores" when I was growing up. Her house is far from "immaculate" but is always picked up & de-cluttered. Sometimes a bit dusty, but she usually vacuums & sweeps. Her laundry is always caught up. And my dad does the dishes.. so they are almost always done. (Two day pile up at absolute most.)

So, in a way, it is not from my parents. However, If I try to over analyze it.., I DO remember that cleaning was a major source of punishment growing up. A punishment would be to do the dishes all by yourself for two or three nights running. (in a household of 8 members). Or to scrub the bathroom until it sparkled. Or to fold everyone's laundry for a week. (Mom would wash clothes, but if you were bad, you got picked to fold that week.) Again, 8 people, that is no small task.

I also remember having to clean the toy room, was tramatic. Mom would pile everything into one HUGE pile in the corner.... And Stand and stare at my sister and me, while we had to pick things out, one at a time and put them away. Her just standing over us with her hands fisted on her hips, staring with an evil, angry look on her face. Oh, that creeps me out now.. even just typing about it.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

My wife and I split up all chores 50/50 because we both work... If either of us stayed hme with our child we both agree that one would easily do all the house chores... It's not that friggin hard we both do it anyway and work full time and we both equally raise our children. People exaggerate...

Maybe she should get a job so you'd both have an excuse to have the house unkept.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

PKKKLK said:


> Despite the thread title my wife is not entirely lazy but overall she doesn't do much house work.
> 
> I have seen other women with 2 or 3 kids and they manage to keep a clean house. There is always a pile of clothes that hasn't been sorted, she often sleeps into 8 or 9 in the morning then she showers for about 1 hour and by the time she is dressed it is sometimes midday. She doesn't drive, she's not that interested in sex, she doesn't clean the house, she's an unimaginative and pretty bad cook to name several things.Even though I only get dinner. Not only that but she complains about not having a clothes dryer and dish washer. I guess with those items she gets to do even less.
> Did I marry a dud?
> ...


You sound like a complete jerk. Are you sure that she is not depressed? If money is not an issue, hire a maid. Some people are not clean freaks. If I was to ask her what your shortcomings were, what would she say?


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> You sound like a complete jerk. Are you sure that she is not depressed? If money is not an issue, hire a maid. Some people are not clean freaks. If I was to ask her what your shortcomings were, what would she say?


The jerk part was in regards to her bring YOUR child into the world. It spoke volumes to me.


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## Jane_Doe (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm not all that great about chores either and my biggest nightmare is my husband thinking/feeling/writing the OP.

Chances are she knows what she can and can't accomplish in a day right now, based on her physical/emotional limits. That explains her getting defensive when you bring it up. And I don't believe you bring it up in a 'nice' way because your post is seething with resentment.

And the UK isn't a third world country, my dad was always poor when I was growing up but we managed to get ourselves a second hand tumble dryer with a water-catch so it didn't need to be plumbed in, and I think it's still tumblin' to this day. Dish-washers are a middle class thing, yeah, but clothes hung up all over the house/radiators is just archaic.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

PKKKLK said:


> she showers for about 1 hour


WTF?

Who the heck stays in the show for an HOUR?

Is she very overweight?

Otherwise I can't image why it would take so long to clean yourself.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

My wife has been sleeping tell about 10 to 12 most days Sean we had our baby 9 months ago. She said she is tired 24/7 and does not know why and it worries her. We don't know where to start to get to the bottom of this. She also has a hard time falling asleep


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Maybe your wife just doesn't care that much about housework and domestic chores. Not all people care about that sort of thing. Perhaps you can try hiring a housekeeper to clean your house and maintain it once a week?

Does she choose to be a stay at home wife? If not, then it is possible that she just doesn't value cooking and cleaning. I, personally, would rather be working than cooking and cleaning and gladly pay someone else to do those things for me when I'm busy and can afford it. That's just my disposition.

Did you guys talk about this before you married -- that you expect her to be a great cook and cleaner as part of her function as your wife? Is she happy with this arrangement? If so, perhaps you can get her cooking classes as a gift or work together on a re-decoration of the home to inspire her to care about it.

Is she depressed? Is she ill and lacking energy because of a health thing or a vitamin deficiency? This could very well be the case.

Do you two have a good connection and good intimacy side from your differing perspectives on household chores?

I also want to add that taking care of a three year old full time is a very exhausting task. It is emotionally demanding as well as physically demanding. It is possible that she just doesn't have the energy or mood to be as gung ho as you would like her to be. Get a housekeeper to come around once a week to help. Get her to consult a doc about health or depression concerns. If neither helps, ask her why her motivation is lacking and see whether you guys can reach a compromise.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> WTF?
> 
> Who the heck stays in the show for an HOUR?
> 
> ...


I don't think that's a weird thing. I take about 45 minutes in the shower. I do this before bed rather than in the morning, to help me relax and wind down because I have a lot of anxiety troubles. My stbxh used to take 45 minutes to an hour to shower and he's underwear-model fit, so it wasn't a body mass issue. Some people find it relaxing, invigorating, and indulgent to take long showers.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

PKKKLK said:


> Despite the thread title my wife is not entirely lazy but overall she doesn't do much house work.
> 
> I have seen other women with 2 or 3 kids and they manage to keep a clean house. There is always a pile of clothes that hasn't been sorted, she often sleeps into 8 or 9 in the morning then she showers for about 1 hour and by the time she is dressed it is sometimes midday. She doesn't drive, she's not that interested in sex, she doesn't clean the house, she's an unimaginative and pretty bad cook to name several things.Even though I only get dinner. Not only that but she complains about not having a clothes dryer and dish washer. I guess with those items she gets to do even less.
> Did I marry a dud?
> ...



Have to say my friend I am shocked at some of the responses here

I am divorcing a woman after 15 yrs 11 married who was more or less the same, spent an awful lot of time laying around in bed was clinically depressed on medication had full support from me in helping her get through bulimea/anorex/self harming/etc suicidal. 

She did not once clean the side of our bedroom once in 15 yrs _no exaggeration_ a heap of dirty 3 inch high dust and grime that after a while I could not even look at. Every now and again when visitors family would come she'd get the hoover out and go berserk for a couple of hours, could would'nt cook "you do it much better so you do it" That was the extent of her 'housework' 

I was the house husband looking after the kids from pre nursery age till now (ages 9 and 10). She did work part time through our marriage so that's a more positive side to her

Now we are are separated awaiting our divorce. I have the kids 4 nights a week 

Forever all I got from friends and her family is "well poor T" "but she's not well". Then she started being able to fk around with other men - found the energy for that!!

How did this end up? me saying "get yr fking lazy arse our of bed - fk your depression and for once do the washing kids etc etc" 

For all those that use "depression" or some other borderline personality disorder as the justifiable reason excuse for somebody wrecking a marriage and other marriages - fk that.

When do you people stop saying that - "aahh poor whoever". When do you finally look at that person and think 'NO hang on you've got responsibilities and laying around moaning about how bad your life is is not one of them.' Sort your head out. How much 'time' do you give somebody as self destructive as this ? 

While the rest of us are trying to make something, are cleaning up the kids (and her) shvt what is she doing !! Having an easy ride and slowly grinding a person she supposedly loves into the ground.

I've lived with a deeply sad and depressed person for a large part of my life and although I have every sympathy there HAS to be a line has to be or they get the green light to just walk right over you. And they do 

I was like you I just took it and took and took it until in the end there was nothing left to give and now I see that person as a very shallow fundamentally dishonest human being who actually used and abused ME

get that!

You're not wrong my friend follow your gut instinct, start laying down some ground rules - harsh ones and see what her reaction is

For those who think she needs endless crutches and support, when do you stop that? what's YOUR line of withdrawing that ?

When the inbalance and destruction of it is so ridiculous when do you stop being so sympathetic 
as another hard working spouse ends up in the divorce court ?


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## missmolly (Jun 10, 2012)

45 min showers - wow
Water is so precious here in the summer that we keep a bucket in the shower to catch the 'waiting to warm up' water (for the garden), and don't run the tap whilst brushing teeth.
What a difference geography has on our lives. 

now . . . . back to the OP


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

missmolly said:


> 45 min showers - wow
> Water is so precious here in the summer that we keep a bucket in the shower to catch the 'waiting to warm up' water (for the garden), and don't run the tap whilst brushing teeth.
> What a difference geography has on our lives.
> 
> now . . . . back to the OP


Same, we have to limit our showers to 4 minutes, my dream would be a 45 minute shower.
We also don't use the dryer, in fact I may have used it for 30 minutes in the last 2 years. Clothes dry outside most of the year and over the heater vents in winter.
As for a dishwasher, I would say that 95% of homes here have them, they are standard particularly as they generally use less water than hand washing.

Anyway OP no idea on your situation but yeah has she had her iron levels checked? I suffer badly with iron issues but take supplements to keep it under control.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I understand this bothers you, BUT sometimes we have to pick and choose our battles in life.If she gets checked out by a doctor and she does not have depression and there is no resentments or no issues going on then, If you truly feel this is an issue, one you can't get past or one you feel she will not meet your standards on, then you will need to make a decision on what matters to you most.


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

Headspin said:


> Forever all I got from friends and her family is "well poor T" "but she's not well". Then she started being able to fk around with other men - found the energy for that!!
> 
> How did this end up? me saying "get yr fking lazy arse our of bed - fk your depression and for once do the washing kids etc etc"
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. My wife has battled depression for many years. For the first 9 years of our marriage I played the nice guy and did most of the housework and I'd put on a happy face when she's just sit in the lazyboy all evening messing around on the laptop. Anytime I had the guts to bring it up, she'd blame it on her depression, things would improve for a week, and we'd be back in the same rut. 

You're completely right, if you let them, they'll use their depression as a crutch to get out of everything. It's a great excuse to lay around all day and you feel like the ******* for saying anything because they've got something legitimately wrong with them.

Well, I had enough as well. I recently told her I was done playing Mr. Nice Guy and things were going to change and change quickly. I told her that her depression doesn't make her stupid. She can see dishes in the sink as well as I can. She can see laundry that needs to get done. I told her that while I understand her depression is a real problem, I'm done tolerating it as an excuse. 

It's been a few weeks now and things are better. Here's hoping it stays that way.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

BrockLanders said:


> Most people outside the US and Canada don't use a clothes dryer.


Is this true? Why not? 

Dolly ... you don't have a clothes dryer?

Is it because your maid has one?


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

hawkeye said:


> I couldn't agree more. My wife has battled depression for many years. For the first 9 years of our marriage I played the nice guy and did most of the housework and I'd put on a happy face when she's just sit in the lazyboy all evening messing around on the laptop. Anytime I had the guts to bring it up, she'd blame it on her depression, things would improve for a week, and we'd be back in the same rut.
> 
> You're completely right, if you let them, they'll use their depression as a crutch to get out of everything. It's a great excuse to lay around all day and you feel like the ******* for saying anything because they've got something legitimately wrong with them.
> 
> ...



Well done 

(although probably like me you'll find it bloody irritating you did'nt do it 5 yrs ago)


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

Headspin said:


> Well done
> 
> (although probably like me you'll find it bloody irritating you did'nt do it 5 yrs ago)


Well, we'll have to see how it goes. I'm afraid I'm going to have to constantly remind/tell her to get things done and she's eventually going to start to resent it. Hopefully not, but I can definitely see it happening.


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

> My wife and I split up all chores 50/50 because we both work... If either of us stayed hme with our child we both agree that one would easily do all the house chores


This plan falls apart if one partner decides to be a **** about it. Instead of putting dishes in the sink for the other to clean, the jerk leaves dishes on the floor or on the couch. My blood would boil if my partner went to the extreme and make me find dishes she leaves around. 



> And the UK isn't a third world country, my dad was always poor when I was growing up but we managed to get ourselves a second hand tumble dryer with a water-catch so it didn't need to be plumbed in, and I think it's still tumblin' to this day. Dish-washers are a middle class thing, yeah, but clothes hung up all over the house/radiators is just archaic.


You don't need to get a full size 240V/30A dryer. Size is very limited in my condo, so I'm using a small 120V dryer that came with the place. It takes a while to dry things, but it's still infinitely better than hanging things to dry. here is a new one for $290. You can probably find a used one for $50. When moving from an apartment to a house, people sell these things because the house already has a dryer that is bigger and better.



> Who the heck stays in the show for an HOUR?
> 
> Is she very overweight?
> 
> Otherwise I can't image why it would take so long to clean yourself.


I remember showering for a very long time as a kid because my dad always kept the house temperature extremely low. Being a kid with 0% body fat, having a cold house is intolerable. If the wife is cold, don't just brush her off and say she's retarded. Spend the $20 on a space heater and let her be warm.



> My wife has been sleeping tell about 10 to 12 most days Sean we had our baby 9 months ago. She said she is tired 24/7 and does not know why and it worries her. We don't know where to start to get to the bottom of this. She also has a hard time falling asleep


Depression after having a baby is very common. She can try getting on antidepressants for a few months until it passes.



> Is she depressed? Is she ill and lacking energy because of a health thing or a vitamin deficiency? This could very well be the case.


B vitamins are the energy vitamins. They are powerful enough to prevent me from sleeping if I take them in the evening.



> For all those that use "depression" or some other borderline personality disorder as the justifiable reason excuse for somebody wrecking a marriage and other marriages - fk that.


She was probably on the wrong medication and didn't say anything about it. There are literally dozens of different drugs, and they're all different. Even drugs in the same family can have radically different effects. Example: fluoxetine (Prozac) is a stimulating SSRI but fluvamine (Luvox) is a relaxing SSRI; someone can respond well to one of them and become violent on the other. The more severe cases of "typical" depression respond better to tricyclics, which doctors don't like to give out, but severe cases of "atypical" depression do not respond to tricyclics. Atypical depression is thought to be related to dopamine problems, but most antidepressants do not affect dopamine, so people with atypical depression often turn to illegal drugs because it's the only option available. 

I speak from experience on the depression issue. I could write an entire book explaining why most doctors are idiots and why I hate them. I went to a doctor because I was similar to the OP's wife. I was always tired, nothing was enjoyable, I would leave things to the last possible second, and some things simply wouldn't get done. I didn't even have the motivation to shower every day. I asked my doctor for some drugs and he gave me paroxetine, an SSRI. That made everything a million times worse. I was more tired, less motivated, more retarded. I felt better, but it was the kind of "better" a heroin addict feels - just fall asleep and pretend there are no problems. I looked up online why this happened, and every single page I found pointed to dopamine as the main problem. Low dopamine causes every symptom described in the OP as well as every problem I had. Because the government is run by retards, most dopamine drugs are very tightly restricted and cannot be given out for depression. That includes drugs like methylphenidate (Ritalin) and amphetamine (Dexedrine, Adderall). The only dopamine drugs one can get for depression are MAOIs which doctors really don't like to give out because of how dangerous they are. It's like the entire medical system is designed to not help anyone at all. People in pain need to beg a doctor for real pain killers, people with depression need to fail at life for several YEARS in a row before a doctor will even considering handing out an MAOI. It's ridiculous.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

ShawnD said:


> I speak from experience on the depression issue. I could write an entire book explaining why most doctors are idiots and why I hate them. I went to a doctor because I was similar to the OP's wife. I was always tired, nothing was enjoyable, I would leave things to the last possible second, and some things simply wouldn't get done. I didn't even have the motivation to shower every day. I asked my doctor for some drugs and he gave me paroxetine, an SSRI. That made everything a million times worse. I was more tired, less motivated, more retarded. I felt better, but it was the kind of "better" a heroin addict feels - just fall asleep and pretend there are no problems. I looked up online why this happened, and every single page I found pointed to dopamine as the main problem. Low dopamine causes every symptom described in the OP as well as every problem I had. Because the government is run by retards, most dopamine drugs are very tightly restricted and cannot be given out for depression. That includes drugs like methylphenidate (Ritalin) and amphetamine (Dexedrine, Adderall). The only dopamine drugs one can get for depression are MAOIs which doctors really don't like to give out because of how dangerous they are. It's like the entire medical system is designed to not help anyone at all. People in pain need to beg a doctor for real pain killers, people with depression need to fail at life for several YEARS in a row before a doctor will even considering handing out an MAOI. It's ridiculous.


Again not meaning to be disrespectful and again appreciating that not everyone can run around washing, cleaning like a hyper mad person but again "this drug is that" "that drug does this" "these have this affect" "that side effect" 

What about the fact that some people are pure and simple lazy bastards who need there arses kicked into gear to make them get a move on in life.

It's so easy these days to find a reason for an ailment especially a mental one that sometimes the most obvious answers are ignored.

I know that people are depressed and have their issues but fk me when kids have to be got ready, cleaned thrown in the car, off to school, go shopping back to clean up the mess - what bit about that does depression say "no I'm not doing it I'm 'ill' - he can do it"

When you've heard that for 12 yrs or so it does unfortunately start to wear a bit thin.

Back in the day when there were fewer drugs people, to be honest, just had to roll their sleeves up and get on with it
I do sometimes wonder if that was a better thing in terms of some medical treatments


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

Y'know, there are a lot of perfectly valid ways of dealing with life.

Generally speaking, holding people accountable for their actions and keeping firm boundaries results in improved behavior relative to not doing that.

Cleaning up around people lying around in their own filth isn't healthy for anyone.

Now - people do have different priorities. 

Some people value their mates being willing and able to contribute equally to a marriage. In the case of mental illness - the reasonable sequence will be to communicate the problem, set limits, see if there is change, and then, when there isn't enough change, divorce.

Some people are just interested in getting through life. There, before divorce, there would be a mixture of accommodations (like hiring a maid for a stay-at-home mom) and limits. These are crutches, but, sometimes, for disabled (whether physical or mental) people - crutches are appropriate.

In either case, it is mostly the afflicted's responsibilty to seek treatment - although helping a bit is reasonable.

It is perfectly reasonable to be seething with resentment because you're married to a depressed or lazy partner. (And - excepting mental illness - keeping a house clean with children is not close to a full-time job - I've done it - working full-time - my only issue is that vast amount of mess my mentally ill wife generates...)

That said, it may not be that productive to focus resentment on a depressed/mentally ill person. There, it depends on your values/goals. I should also add that being an unemployed, stay-at-home person is difficult for many people because of the lack of structure and that some people do much better when employed.

--Argyle


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

Headspin said:


> What about the fact that some people are pure and simple lazy bastards who need there arses kicked into gear to make them get a move on in life.


We've tried this for thousands of years and it simply doesn't work. We had depression almost completely under control in the mid 1900s, but retard politicians and doctors had to step in and screw everything up, as usual.
*I'll include a summary at the bottom of this post if people don't want to read the entire thing just to see where I'm going with this.*

The entire history of depression:

1) Dark Ages:
People thought it was caused by evil spirits, and that turned out to be wrong. Priests would perform exorcisms on people who were depressed, schizophrenic, or epileptic, and it never really worked. The exorcism would sometimes show short term gains because the procedure involved exposing the patient to extreme heat or extreme cold as an attempt to drive spirits out of the body. The body panics in such situations, releasing large amounts of noradrenaline to stimulate the person and large amounts of endorphin to reduce pain. When the rush goes away, the person feels depressed again.

2) Renaissance: 
Around the late 1600s, mentally ill people started to become institutionalized. Inside the mental hospitals, doctors would basically torture people as a means of finding a solution. Things like throwing cold water on someone would sometimes show short term gains (because their nervous system lights up like a christmas tree), but it didn't permanently fix anything. Psychotherapy became a big thing in the 1800s, but that didn't really fix anything. Some people are depressed because of things they've experienced (seeing their parents die), but most depression is biological, so psychotherapy doesn't work. Talking about your lack of dopamine is just as effective as talking about your lack of red blood cells - it's not effective.

3) Modern Age:
In the mid 1900s, lobotomy became a common procedure to cure depression. It was fairly effective, but it also screwed up a lot of people, so that was eventually ended. 
Another thing of the 1900s was electroshock therapy. Despite all of the negative media attention, shock therapy actually does work, and it can fix the most severe cases of depression and psychosis without any long term side effects. It went out of style because muscle relaxing drugs did not exist when ECT first came out, so the shock could cause extreme muscle contraction, sometimes strong enough to break bones.
Drugs started coming into play around the 1940-1950s. 

4) Evolution of Drug Treatment:
I don't want to oversimplify this, but these are the effects of the 3 main neurotransmitters associated with depression:
dopamine - desire, enjoyment, motivation, hopes, dreams
noradrenaline - energy, focus
serotonin - relaxation, emotions, bonding

Lacking any of the above can cause depression (or other illnesses). Different combinations create different forms of depression. Having dopamine and noradrenaline but no serotonin can make a person highly motivated and intelligent, but anxious, paranoid, aggressive, and sometimes violent. Having dopamine and serotonin without noradrenaline can make a person have a lot of great ideas and be very sociable, but feel tired all the time and have poor attention span.

A) Amphetamine (speed)
Amphetamine and methamphetamine are extremely powerful dopamine/noradrenaline releasing agents, but they have little effect on serotonin. 
Amphetamine and methamphetamine were widely used during WW2 to fight combat fatigue, but one of the side effects was an overwhelming positive sense of well-being and a desire to work. Amphetamines were widely used because they fixed all of the problems described in the OP, but it wasn't called depression at that time. People would say to the doctor "I always feel tired" and they would be given amphetamine. Amphetamine addiction at that time was incredibly high because amphetamine makes a person more capable of doing things, similar to that movie Limitless. Going off amphetamine means the person falls back into being tired and lazy, so that drive to keep taking amphetamine is very high. That high abuse potential is why amphetamine became prescription-only in 1965, and it was categorized as a schedule II drug in 1971. Back when my mom was a kid, people could buy amphetamine at any drug store. It was called benzedrine, and it was sold as an inhaler. It's not a mystery to find that there's a good correlation between the fall of amphetamine and the sharp rise in depression (after the definition changed to include lazy people) in these last few decades. The depression always existed, but people in the 1950s and early 1960s actually had a legal way of treating it. 

B) Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOI)
MAOIs increase all 3 of the main neurotransmitters.
MAOIs were the first to be called "antidepressant" drugs. Iproniazid was initially used to treat tuberculosis in the 1950s, but one of the side effects was that patients became "inappropriately happy," so doctors started giving it out to treat depression. In terms of overall effects in the brain, an MAOI will feel like low doses of the popular street drug MDMA, which is a monoamine releasing agent. Releasing monoamines or blocking monoamine oxidase is a very effective treatment for depression because it raises dopamine, noradrenaline, and serotonin. MAOIs became less common as tricyclics became more common because MAOI drugs come with severe dietary restrictions while tricyclics do not. MAOIs also have a nasty habit of causing liver damage. Doctors couldn't switch over from MAOIs to MDMA because the first paper published about MDMA and human behavior was many years later, in 1978, and MDMA was listed as a schedule I drug (like marijuana and heroin) in 1985, so MDMA never really had a chance to become the next big antidepressant.

C) Tricyclic Antidepressants (TCA)
Due to safety issues with MAOIs, tricyclics started to replace MAOIs for treating depression. The tricyclic drugs have the same overall effect of raising serotonin and noradrenaline, but they don't do much to raise dopamine. Moving from MAOIs to TCAs worked for some people, but a lot of the patients didn't respond well to TCAs. This created a divide in the definition of clinical depression. People who responded well to TCAs had "typical" depression while people who responded to MAOIs but not TCAs had "atypical" depression. As you can guess, the distinction between typical and atypical depression is very likely related to dopamine. People with atypical depression need dopamine. Despite the name, atypical depression is actually the most common type of depression. The transition from MAOIs to TCAs meant that the most popular antidepressants were completely useless in most patients. Yay for retarded doctors!

D) Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRI)
As the name suggests, SSRI drugs specifically target serotonin. For the people who respond well to TCA drugs that mostly affect serotonin, SSRI drugs are a great improvement because they have fewer side effects. Of course, specifically targeting serotonin also means these drugs don't do anything if the person's depression is related to dopamine or noradrenaline. Since most forms of depression are also related to dopamine and noradrenaline, this means SSRI drugs have piss poor efficacy overall. Some of the studies come to the conclusion that SSRI drugs are only slightly better than placebo. The people with serotonin problems do well, but the people with dopamine and noradrenaline problems become even more depressed. That's exactly what happened to me when given paroxetine. That's also what happened to guys like Eric Harris, one of the Columbine shooters. He was on fluvoxamine (Luvox), and his described behavior perfectly matches the behavior of someone who was on the wrong type of drug. He showed all of the signs: negative affect, oppositional behavior, psychotic fantasies, etc. If he were on an MAOI or MDMA, a lot of people would still be alive. Doctors hand out SSRI drugs like candy because they're safe _for the person taking it_ and it's very hard to overdose on them. As the old saying goes, Cover Your Ass. Hand out the safest yet least effective drug because it's the least likely to come back and bite the doctor in the butt. MAOI drugs from the 1950s are more effective than SSRI drugs in every measurable way, but they're almost never prescribed because the doctor could get in a lot of legal trouble if the patient dies while taking it. Thanks, lawyers.

5) Non-prescription Drugs
Lots of commonly consumed drugs have antidepressant properties.

A) Nicotine
Nicotine acts as a nicotinic acetylcholine agonist. This can have a lot of positive effects including increased attention span, improved memory, better mood, and calmed nerves. This can also have positive downstream effects on other neurotransmitters, including dopamine. Nicotine is one of the most widely used drugs in the world because it has so many positive effects. A few studies have shown that it is a powerful antidepressant. It shouldn't shock anyone when we see a rise in depression as the prevalence of smoking is on the decline. To make matters worse, things like nicotine patches and nicotine inhalers are marketed as a way of breaking nicotine addiction rather than replacing smoking as a source of nicotine. People are addicted to nicotine for a reason - it effectively treats many of the symptoms of depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder. If people switch to nicotine inhalers and have no intention of stopping, society looks down on that person as if they were crazy, even though there's a mountain of science and old age wisdom supporting the theory that nicotine is helpful in a lot of ways. 

B) Caffeine
Caffeine is an adenosine antagonist. By inhibiting adenosine receptors, this prevents the enzyme adenylate cyclase from deactivating, so the enzyme can keep converting ATP (stored energy) to cAMP. As a result, caffeine is a very powerful stimulant. Much of the activity of dopamine is related to the control of adenylate cyclase and cAMP, so caffeine is effectively the same as a dopamine stimulant. It's no surprise that this is the most popular drug in the world, but it's a terrible antidepressant because it has such a short half life and it can also cause a lot of anxiety.

C) Alcohol
Alcohol is a GABA agonist, just like barbiturates and benzodiazepines. This is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the body, so alcohol has a powerful calming effect. This can prevent depression by fixing some of the things that can lead to depression such as social isolation and lack of sleep. There was a time when it was perfectly acceptable to use alcohol as an anxiolytic. Look at any TV show from the 50s or 60s. What does the man of the house do when he gets home? Put his coat and hat away then pour himself a glass of scotch equivalent to maybe 4 or 5 shots. As alcohol becomes less and less socially acceptable, anxiety is on the rise. My city recently dropped the drunk driving limit down to 0.05, so that pretty much means you can't go somewhere, drink a few glasses of wine, then drive home. It's also no longer acceptable to drink alone or drink every day. 

D) Ephedrine
Ephedrine and pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) are mirror images of the same thing. Ephedrine is methamphetamine with an OH group. It doesn't have the same dopamine releasing effects of amphetamine, but it does have the noradrenaline releasing effects. As such, ephedrine is a very strong stimulant with antidepressant properties. Every person I have ever given it to has loved it. It helps with motivation, attention, and energy. It was widely used as a weight loss drug because it's an amphetamine, and we all know how well amphetamine works as a weight loss drug. Some fatties died from it, so the FDA decided to ban it. Luckily, it's still legal in Canada, but it's limited to 8mg pills for safety reasons.


****Summary****
When people talk about the good old days and how people just had to pull themselves up by the boot straps, they conveniently ignore all of the drugs people were on in those days. What was considered "boot straps" in 1950 would be called "drug abuse" in our modern society. Our society changed from being solution-based to being random and stupid. Anxiety and atypical depression rates are higher than ever, and it's entirely caused by the breakdown of society.
-Benzedrine (amphetamine) was banned.
-MAOI antidepressants are impossible to get
-Smoking is frowned upon
-Ephedrine was banned
-Alcohol is no longer socially acceptable.

Old society also required a lot of intense physical work, which is known to increase the levels of most neurotransmitters. A lot of modern jobs don't include physical work, so the only time to get any exercise is after work when we're expected to clean the house and take care of kids. 




> It's so easy these days to find a reason for an ailment especially a mental one that *sometimes the most obvious answers are ignored*.


I agree 100%. I know you're talking about personal actions, but I'm thinking about medical actions. I read one story where a girl was diagnosed as having schizophrenia and she was put on hardcore drugs for several years before finding out what the problem was. In the end, all it took was a simple blood test to show that she had very serious hormonal problems. That should have been the most obvious thing in the world considering _she stopped having periods for 3 years_. Similarly, treating atypical depression (laziness) should be the easiest thing in the world. You have low dopamine? Here's a dopamine drug. See how easy that was? Instead, doctors screw around and do nothing. They hand out serotonin drugs to treat obvious dopamine problems then they pray that Jesus will take care of the rest. I want to see a doctor try to change the oil in a car. The oil light turns on, so he completely rebuilds the transmission and replaces the tires, but doesn't change the oil. Mind boggling stupidity at its worst.



> I know that people are depressed and have their issues but fk me when kids have to be got ready, cleaned thrown in the car, off to school, go shopping back to clean up the mess - *what bit about that does depression say "no I'm not doing it I'm 'ill' - he can do it"*


Having atypical depression is the same as having the flu. I feel terrible, I'm staying in bed, let someone else handle it. When you have a physical illness, you're still aware that things need to be done, but they seem less important.




> Back in the day when there were fewer drugs people, to be honest, just had to roll their sleeves up and get on with it
> I do sometimes wonder if that was a better thing in terms of some medical treatments


Actually, most _legitimate_ drug use is down, and that's the problem. My dad grew up on a farm, and he had all kinds of stories about home remedies to things. It seems alcohol and tobacco fix damn near everything. Drink a beer then go plow the fields. Drink a beer then go castrate some bulls. Drive to town with a beer in your hand. If something screws up, take a 10 minute smoke break then get back to work. Drinking and smoking are still huge in rural areas because it really does help take the edge off.
It doesn't really work in the city. Drink a beer during your lunch break and you'll probably be fired. Smoke at your desk and you'll be fired. Go all the way down to the ground floor, smoke a cigarette, come all the way back, and get fired because you're taking breaks outside of the designated brake periods. Kids have it even worse. Bringing a bottle of Midol to school is enough to get suspended. It's almost like someone decided that it would be a great plan to make people as miserable as possible. No smoking, no drinking, no midol. Just sit there feeling stressed out and in constant pain.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Informative and well done for gathering it.

For me however I'm gonna make my life more simple.

The two main relationships in my life have been to seriously depressed disordered people, domestically lazy people.

That is not happening again because I will ask that question before I ever live with anybody again and if they are having problems mentally depressed etc then they'll not be living with me. I found it too often a cop out 

They may have some problem but it won't be depressed for sure. I've seen depression as a cop out for a lot of people. And the drugs have often fueled it too. 

Obviously there are severe cases but personally I end up doing all the lifting and fk that I want some shared responsibility in my life the next time I have a relationship with somebody.

That reminds me of a 'lost relationship' I had in between my two wives. Started seeing this girl who was gorgeous but a bit cranky (yep I pick 'em) but I had feelings for her. 

One afternoon she says 
I'm doing some toast and honey you want some 
no thanks but you have yours
she makes her toast and an hour later she goes.

I go into the kitchen and find the butter (new) with a knife still sticking in it churned into a mixture of burnt toast scrapings and dollops of thick honey with semi melted butter. It was practically unusable as butter. 

Till that point I'd considered her as a definite serious relationship material but in 1.5 seconds as I stood gaping at that in my head she was gone, was history. I thought how the hell am I gonna do this if she's like this now what will she be like 'inhouse'. I made my excuses and extricated myself. Later I found out she was with somebody else who could'nt stand living in a pigsty !!

Hehehe did myself a favor there!

Personally I now have little patience or understanding for somebody who cannot clean up their own mess, depressed or not.

I particularly loved it when my stbxw would complain if I'd accidentally put an item of clothing in the wrong wash. Of course I would mention there is always that 'other' option. Then she'd go all quiet and not mention it again.

You'd think she'd go if you cant' do it as I like then I'll do it ......but nooo no way


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## missmolly (Jun 10, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> Is this true? Why not?
> 
> Dolly ... you don't have a clothes dryer?
> 
> Is it because your maid has one?


Is this a serious posting??
Lots of people don't use clothes dryers and for many it is a conscious choice. 
Why waste precious energy on electrical appliances when it isn't necessary? Sunshine dries clothes for free and the effort in hanging out laundry isn't great. Besides, nothing replaces the fresh smell of 'sunshine' in your clean garments. 
And yes, I had a family with 3 children.
In winter I have a line strung up under a covered pergola. I occasionally use a dryer if we have continuous wet weather or to 'finish it off'. I usually just do laundry on a clear day.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> Is this true? Why not?
> 
> Dolly ... you don't have a clothes dryer?
> 
> Is it because your maid has one?


No not true.

Unless he is talking third world countries.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

missmolly said:


> Is this a serious posting??
> Lots of people don't use clothes dryers and for many it is a conscious choice.
> Why waste precious energy on electrical appliances when it isn't necessary? Sunshine dries clothes for free and the effort in hanging out laundry isn't great. Besides, nothing replaces the fresh smell of 'sunshine' in your clean garments.
> And yes, I had a family with 3 children.
> In winter I have a line strung up under a covered pergola. I occasionally use a dryer if we have continuous wet weather or to 'finish it off'. I usually just do laundry on a clear day.


The part about the maid was a joke, but I really wasn't aware that most people didn't have clothes dryers.

We have a family of 5. Most everyone does some exercise each day, so everyone goes through at least two sets of clothes a day. My wife does laundry almost every day. 

I haven't seen clothes hung up on a clothes line in our area ever (been here 30 years). As I mentioned, growing up, until I was 10 or so (1973), we did have a clothes line and my mother used it. I remember clothes hung up in the porch during winter months. 

But around that time (1973 or so) we got our first clothes dryer and there wasn't a whole lot of hanging up clothes after that. My family would have been considered on the lower end of middle class.

Just surprised that most everyone that has internet access wouldn't also have a clothes dryer.


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## missmolly (Jun 10, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> The part about the maid was a joke, but I really wasn't aware that most people didn't have clothes dryers.
> 
> We have a family of 5. Most everyone does some exercise each day, so everyone goes through at least two sets of clothes a day. My wife does laundry almost every day.
> 
> ...


It's certainly not a class thing for many people, but a conscious, energy saving, environmental decision. 
Nearly everyone I know _owns_ a clothes dryer, but very few use it other than a back up in continuous poor weather.
I just went for a short walk and every yard I could see into has clothes hanging out on the clothes line - but it is a beautiful sunny day today.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Deepdivered said:


> My wife has been sleeping tell about 10 to 12 most days Sean we had our baby 9 months ago. She said she is tired 24/7 and does not know why and it worries her. We don't know where to start to get to the bottom of this. She also has a hard time falling asleep


Start by going with her to see her doctor. Tell the doc what's going on with her. She might very well have depression. A lot of women do after giving birth. 

It could also be thyroid problems.... some women develop this during pregnancy. 

Help her get the help she needs.


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## old pilot (Oct 9, 2012)

some wives tend to get lazy. Thats why they become ex-wives.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

missmolly said:


> It's certainly not a class thing for many people, but a conscious, energy saving, environmental decision.
> Nearly everyone I know _owns_ a clothes dryer, but very few use it other than a back up in continuous poor weather.
> I just went for a short walk and every yard I could see into has clothes hanging out on the clothes line - but it is a beautiful sunny day today.


The last few days I have tried to look and see if anyone has a 'clothes line'. Haven't seen any yet. Not very common here at all. I am guessing most of Canada is the same.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

This sounds like she may be in a depression. I am not a doctor, so I can not diagnose her.

I work very hard to keep myself from getting depressed. I injured myself pretty badly 4 years ago and now I'm disabled and I have severe chronic pain. When I am heading towards depression the tears flow down my face and I might not even be sad. I'll get extremely fatigued which makes my arms and legs ache like crazy. To get out of it I need my husbands help. I need his reassurance that he loves me. I need him to hold me or hold my hand. I need him to listen to me without judgment, which he does all these things. I have many insecurities I try to hide. I think a lot of us do.

I do however keep my house clean as much as I'm physically able to. I need a dishwasher and a dryer. Nothing spectacular, just something that does the job well. I like things picked up, dishes and laundry washed, floors clean and bathroom cleaned. I can not physically scrub the bathtub or shower. Hubby has to. Somedays I can not clean at all, especially if my pain is unbearable or if I have a kidney infection(which I have one now).

I love to cook, not all people do. It's one of my hobbies and passions! My goal is to become a self taught chef without going to culinary school. I have nice equipment for cooking since I'm disabled and I can't do this by hand. I just bought seeds to plant fresh spices and a variety of bell peppers to grow in my basement. I try to make new fancy things. Most my food is made from scratch.

My husband works very hard. He has 3 jobs(by choice) comes home and he will either go for a run or sit and eat with us. Once he's done he helps with homework. By this time I'm sitting on the couch with an ice pack on my neck. Most times he will do the supper dishes. Afterwards he will find me and we hang out(without the kids) for about an hour. We will talk, watch tv, hold each other or something else.

I think it's very important to have great communication skills. My husband and I tell each other everything. One thing we do not do is criticize one another. Negative attitude leads to more negative attitude and words/arguments. We both work hard building each other up and we put our marriage as our number one priority. 

Try and find things that your wife does that pleases you and acknowledge her for it by saying thank you. It doesn't matter how big or small it is. Saying thank you and being positive goes a long way.


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