# Where to go from here?



## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

First time poster and have been lurking for about 10 months off and on. Of course by the name of the forum I'm sure you can guess why I'm here. I tend to ramble on so I'll try to keep this short and straight to the point as best I can only going into detail as required. Sorry for the lengthy story in advance. 

Background: Husband and father of 2. Been married for almost 8 years as our anniversary is coming up in a few days. Been together for 10. 

My story: Helped wife through nursing school from 2013 - 2015. During the latter half of the final semester she started taking a drug called Amitriptyline in order to help her stay focused and deal with depression. Didn't truly notice a difference in her behavior until two months later. She was always staying up late on social media, irritable, seemed anxious, increased sexual frenquency/desire. She also mentioned something about a guy at her school who tried to talk to her in a romantic way. I asked if she still had contact with him and was she okay. She said no and yes respectively (these were lies, but more on this later). 

As I mentioned, by this time I realized things weren't quite right. Since I'm an IT guy, she had a problem with her iPhone where she thought she had a virus and asked me to look at it. Curiosity had gotten the better of me as I checked through her messages. Found a message from someone who I thought she stopped talking to (*Not the same person who was described earlier). The message said that she had nice breasts in which she replied thank you. This person was someone from her past that never got with her or anything, but wasn't respectful when it came to conversation. I asked her to stop talking to the person before we got married. This started a serious argument with me getting loud and calling her a *****. Our kids were in the next room. Both of our doors were closed, but she claimed that I did it in front of them. I apologized immediately, but by that time she immediately said that she had been thinking for a while that we should separate. I was floored and shocked. I didn't know where that came from. That night I left and stayed with a friend for a couple days. 

I kept trying to reach out and let her know how sorry I was. She let me back in the house on the condition that I would stay in the guestroom for a month. I agreed and told her that I would do my best to keep my anger in check and not yell at her. 

Strange occurrences and red flag period: One night, I came home from work and she was crying. She said that a friend online sent her a genital pic and was shocked as to why he would do that. I told her that he's a terrible friend and that she should block him because true friends don't do things like that. The following day, she told me that she sent the picture to his girlfriend and told her to tell him to stop sending genital pics. I was like well that's good that she did that, but was also scratching my head as to why she was crying over a friend that did this to her whom she wasn't that close to anyway. Another situation that occurred was a car with dark tints was following her that day. She asked if I could see her through her tinted windows and what kind of car does my ex drive (*this was a cover, but again more on this later). 

She went to hangout with some girlfriends from church. She said they were all going around telling updates on their lives. When her turn came she talked about the guy from her school. Apparently this guy affected her in a way that planted a seed which was really bothering her. They talked about that situation most of the night. I asked questions like what was the guys name, are they friends online and do they continue to communicate? She wouldn't tell me the guys name, but did say that they were not friends online and again no longer communicated. Days later we went out for a drive and during the drive she mentioned that since we were separated we should date other people. And at one point even half jokingly said that if I happened to have sex with someone that she couldn't be mad about it (*deep gut wrenching feeling came over me). I was like why would I even consider that when we're married? She's like "well it's true." 

We started going to a church counselor. During the meeting I mentioned that I felt that my wife was exhibiting signs of an affair to which she quickly denied. I was keeping a very detailed journal throughout the year which is something that I've never done before. I told the counselor about some of the things that happened above. The counselor told me that should be the end of it as I had no real proof. The text message that I found was just from a friend that the counselor agreed should no longer be in the picture. Also the statements about dating/sexing other people were alarming and that we needed to give it our all if we wanted this marriage to survive. She expressed how she couldn't get over me calling her a ***** in front of our kids. We agreed to work it out. 

We continued on and during this time, I had a friend who was helping me get through the ups and downs. He's a family friend from church which I would later regret(in a way) telling since our wives were friends. However, because of him I started taking a look at the Amitriptyline side effects. The two side effects that stuck out were (unusual behavior and hypomania). I sent her the info that I found and she started weaning herself off of it. 

D-day: While there were many red flags, I was in denial. I didn't want to believe that my wife was stupid enough to be unfaithful. I know that we had our ups and downs, but the mother of my children, the woman who I allowed to be a SAHM for about 5 years, the woman whom I loved and was still in love with....I just couldn't fathom it. By this time I had moved back to our bedroom and just happened to be laying there in the bed when my wife decided to watch a show in another room. She left her phone and thought she was safe since there was a passcode on it. However, I had the passcode and once I opened it I read messages between her and a female friend. What I read was unbelievable. Since December she was talking to a guy, fell head over heels in love with him, was pissed that he wasn't giving her the attention that she deserved at times..etc...etc. The car that was following her was the guy. I quickly locked the door and just was going through every message. My heart was racing, my head started hurting, my anger was flaring....just about every symptom that you could think of I had. Found out also that her friend was also having a PA on her husband for the past 9 months at that point. 

My wife comes upstairs and realizes that the door is locked and starts pounding on the door. I told her to hold on and when I opened it she quickly ran to the phone to see if anything was there to expose her. I confronted her immediately and she said that the guy was someone from school when she was in college and not nursing school. That he always had a crush on her and wanted to be her man. They never met up, but wanted her to. She said that she already told him that she didn't want him to contact her anymore. She said that even though she had feelings for him, she didn't want to be physical with him. He just made her feel wanted/attractive. She even asked him what he was trying to gain from the situation cause a PA wasn't going down. She said that the turning point came when they discussed his ex wife and how they met when she was married and how they would meet up to have sex in another city. She divorced her husband to marry him, but then left him for someone else. 

Fast forward. Once I realized that she lied about a few things I started checking up on her. I checked her online activity, her whereabouts when she was allegedly going to work and who she was talking to at all hours of the day. I confirmed that this was strictly an EA. However, this was a period of trickling truth. She had a hidden email account where she sent nude pics (*and videos which I didn't confirm until a few weeks ago). I saw the text and phone records to this one person that was exponential in Jan - Feb. I even got a copy of the messages between them. How he had her heart...blah blah blah. When I found these things I confronted her. She claimed that she blocked him on everything so there was no way for him to contact her. I asked her for the passwords to everything and she told me that she closed down that hidden account (*another lie which I confirmed recently). 

During this period I had fallen into a deep depression. I had the worst experience with depression that I've ever had in my life. One weekend, I couldn't get out of bed, had crying spells, constant shaking from anxiety/fear....etc..etc. To top it all off, I was due to start a new job in a couple of weeks. I had to pull myself together. So with a ton of prayer, her getting an accountability partner and giving me access to her accounts did help to make things easier. Also her behavior was slowly returning to normal. However, things didn't end there and a new problem arrived with another male friend from the past. I'm going to post this second portion soon to get to where I am currently.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, blame the medicine, Amitriptyline. The drug should be banned.

Note: being depressed and having anxiety issues often makes one susceptible to infidelity. This drug was the catalyst. It lowered her inhibitions and increased her desire for sex. Rational thoughts and facts do not change one's opinions when on this drug.

Not what do you do?

You now have a cheating wife, a lying wife and she is the mother of your children.

She needs to get off the drug. She needs to admit to her wayward ways. She needs to have a Jesus Moment. Those are very big needs. She was wounded and impaired before she got on the drugs and became worse after she took them. Can she do those "needs" for you to move forward? I have my doubts. Do you?

If she does this, you need to look at her carefully. You then need to determine if there is anything worth salvaging.

Cheating is unforgivable for most. But lying and Gaslighting her husband takes the cake. The cake that her lips ate.

Do you move out? Not if you want to "try" to bring her back to some form of acceptable mental health.

She will make the decision for you by her actions and words going forward. Tell her that the marriage is on the line. You are hanging on by a thin thread. 

Ask her, "What are you going to do about this?" "If you keep lying then I have no choice but to file for divorce".


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Your wife has and continues to lie to you. 

Having secret email account and lying about it. Refusing to name the suspected OM. Both are her way of protecting herself and him. Both show no respect for you and your marriage.

Don't ever let her see you cry or beg for the truth. You already know the truth - she does not love nor respect you. You are Plan B. The babysitter. The ATM. The guy who fixes her car. 

Now you need to figure out what you want to do for yourself and your children. Not for her.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Better get strong quick. She's been lying and gas lighting you up the wazoo.

She has inappropriate contact with another man you confront get mad then let her kick you out of the house?

If you're smart you'll quit letting her lead you around by the nose. Being weak at this time will put you in worse shape. She has control over you and your marrige so you
Will get what she gives you.

Better wake up real quick. 

Expose her friend to her husband. He's probably getting the same cheater treatment you're getting.

I doubt you know the tip of the iceberg. However, you'll want to swallow her lies because you don't want to believe the unbelievable.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

To a divorce attorney's office.

ETA: DNA your kids.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

How many BHs do we have that try to make their wife's betrayal something that was out of her control. She's not a child. She's a married mother that's decided she no longer wants to be married and instead wants to wh0re around like her friend.

Don't make excuses for her actions and definitely don't down play what she's done. You have to know that it is VERY likely that she's been banging this guy for months. The sending of nude pics is to tide the guy over until they next hook up. 

The constant harping about the harsh comment is to divert the cause of the marital problems from her adultery to your "abuse." You can expect her to make accusations of you being controlling as well. According to the cheater handbook, unless the husband sticks his head in the sand and accepts blame for the state of the marriage, he's controlling and an abuser. 

You need to get your ducks in a row. File for D, separate the finances, she needs to get a job ASAP. No wh0ring on your dime. Also since she's the one that betrayed the marriage and family, she gets to sleep in guess bed. 

I advise you also to get tested for STDs. You don't know if they're been more than one OM. Even if it was just one, you need to get checked. WW in long marriages with kids, tend to gravitate to the biggest womanizers and get VERY wanton in order to try to keep him. They're like teen girls going for the middle age equivalent of the bad boy.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Sadly, although you were wrong to call her a ******, it turns out that she is one, and a royal one
at that.

and for the life of me, I cant understand these councelors that tell you to ignore huge
red flags.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> Sadly, although you were wrong to call her a ******, it turns out that she is one, and a royal one
> 
> at that.
> 
> ...




You are right. That counselor has to go. If they ever see another, it needs to be one that specializes in infidelity.


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

More background: Wife hit me with the I don't love you and i'm not in love with you speech. Told me she checked out of the relationship a long time ago. This was back in Feb. Also, my wife is really depressed about not having true friendships. It bothers her to see people on facebook with friends that they had from elementary/middle school. She complained about this a ton. Also, she loves having male friends better than females because men are easier to talk to and aren't driven by emotion. I've always had a problem with her having male friends and asked her to remove them from her life. She always claimed that I was too controlling in this area. I firmly believe that if there is attraction between two opposite sex friends that it could get complicated so the best thing is to just stay away. With that being said, the issue is her male friends had interests of being more than just friends which made it problematic. Any guy is willing to listen when the opportunity in the back of his mind is to jump at the chance to get with/bang you. My wife also feeds off of this attention to a degree. Now that this is out of the way let me get back to the story. 

April - August 
My wife and I had been trying to work things out and move forward. The thoughts of her sending pics and telling another man I love you while I'm working hard to keep the family afloat plagues me until this day. So the next few months I had to cope with this. Things were getting better. I kept tabs on her and tried to slowly wean myself off of searching through her stuff. I confirmed that she wasn't communicating with the OM anymore. Also found that the OM was a sociopath which was pretty interesting. I know that at some point I would need to try and trust her again passively and I was doing well, but then Mrs. KC asks me if i've been on her facebook account? I'm thinking what, why would you ask that? So I decided to go through her account and found messages between her and this other guy from college where the messages were deleted. I confront her again and she said this guy was nothing like the other guy. He has no interest in her and is like a brother. She deleted the messages because I wouldn't like the communication between them. 
Really? I tell her that's a red flag, I don't like this and to end this friendship. The correspondence between them is just what they did that week. I said well there's nothing wrong with that, but the fact that she would even delete anything is very suspect. However, I couldn't confirm anything since the messages were deleted. I made it clear that deleting messages is never a good thing and to stop doing it for any of her friends. 

Red flags: Sep - Nov
1. My wife revealed that he reached out to her and that they were talking again. He said that it was an emergency. Are you serious, I thought that we already talked about this? The emergency was a question about him having a Christian girlfriend that wouldn't go all the way with him so he wanted to inquire what Mrs. KC and I did before we got married. I quickly blurted out that is none of his business. I thought that with this "emergency" being over and that it was made clear that this friendship was an issue that you guys would've stopped talking. 

2. So in some odd way, my wife revealed that not only did she still talk to him, but she also asked him if he was attracted to her in an attempt I guess to settle me. She was expecting him to say no and that they are like brother and sister, but instead he tells her the exact opposite. He says that he is very attracted to her, but that he has a wall up because she's married? So even though this didn't settle me one bit, she insists that it's okay because as long as she doesn't have feelings for him then she felt safe. Um what? 

3. Wife complains that she doesn't have time to herself alot. She feels that I have bad energy (*Really, I wonder why) and requests that I stay in the guestroom and come up around 9pm so that she has time to decompress. However, this day something was going on with the kids and we were supposed to talk about how we were going to address the issue amongst other things like discussing our day. When later came, i'm sitting on the bed waiting 15 min for her to get off of the phone, texting. So then I find out she was texting him?

I try to have a calm, logical discussion with her where she understood where I came from when I expressed my issue with this friendship. She said that she could see how this could grow into a problem later on the more she connected on a certain level. Even though it was going to be hard to let this friendship go she was okay with it. She calls OM when I wasn't around and says I have to let this friendship go, when asked why she says cause "Mr KC feels threatened by you"? This started a serious argument of course. I questioned her reasoning for saying that after all we discussed and she's like why not because it's true?
We go to the counselor at the end of Oct. I made the appointment because I wanted the OM gone and was tired of being second in my household to somebody who didn't pay bills there. She ends up talking about why she believes that we were having issues in the marriage. Her explanation is that we didn't know how to communicate and that these other issues that have occurred are just symptoms of the bigger problem. I rage and call her out in front of the counselor "lets call a spade a spade". There is another man in the picture and you won't let him go in addition to the problems listed above. Counselor agrees that the other man is an issue and should be removed. We leave counseling session, wife wants to separate for a month because she's pissed. I turn whiny asking why do you want to leave?

She tells OM everything, including the fact that she checked out the relationship a long time ago. OM goes oh no. She says that she wants to separate. OM makes his move by saying "Well I've always thought about dating you and now that you and Mr. KC are splitting up let's go out". She claims shock and lets OM know that they can have no further contact. She doesn't block OM though. A couple days later, OM says that he is in love with her and appreciates that she helped him to grow spiritually. She waits a few days and sends him messages inquiring if he always felt that way since the beginning. He confirms, but says he was respectful and didn't try to have sex with her. She blocks on Facebook and phone, but not email. OM continues to send messages throughout holidays. 

Mrs. KC tells me her version of everything. I can't believe it all now because the trust is really broken. Plus all of her correspondence with the OM is deleted with the exception of the messages that I saw in email which I asked her to explain one by one. 

December 
Guy she sent the nude pics to texted her when we were getting ready to head out for a date. She told me about it in an effort to ensure that there was nothing hidden at this time. I told her I wanted to see the text and she said she quickly deleted it? She entered his number to block it and that was all. A couple weeks later, she begins receiving alerts that her email account was hacked. She called me and said that it was hacked 3 times and I was listed as one of the people that accessed it last. It turns out that it was the hidden email that she created earlier this year(*yes the one that she allegedly deactivated), she accessed it from my phone and tried to deactivate because she didn't want him to contact her. I called her on it and said that it's not because you didn't want to get contacted, it's because you wanted to see what he sent you. She paused and admitted that was true, but that she did deactivate this time. Also I asked why was his number no longer blocked? She said that she figured after 3 months that he would've stopped trying to contact her? I just looked at her with that "I cannot believe how stupid you can really be right now". 

It's apparent that I love my wife. I also don't believe in divorce because i'm a Christian. I want to work it out. I'm just tired of finding out about more things later on. Also, She said her church sisters are partly to blame for her lack of honesty as they told her not to reveal what happened because it would crush me. It made things a lot worse that's for sure. I told her that 100% honesty is always better than me finding out on my own. That lies are selfishness to prevent you from getting caught and nothing more.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KrapChute said:


> More background: Wife hit me with the I don't love you and i'm not in love with you speech. Told me she checked out of the relationship a long time ago. This was back in Feb. Also, my wife is really depressed about not having true friendships. It bothers her to see people on facebook with friends that they had from elementary/middle school. She complained about this a ton. Also, she loves having male friends better than females because men are easier to talk to and aren't driven by emotion. I've always had a problem with her having male friends and asked her to remove them from her life. She always claimed that I was too controlling in this area. I firmly believe that if there is attraction between two opposite sex friends that it could get complicated so the best thing is to just stay away. With that being said, the issue is her male friends had interests of being more than just friends which made it problematic. Any guy is willing to listen when the opportunity in the back of his mind is to jump at the chance to get with/bang you. My wife also feeds off of this attention to a degree. Now that this is out of the way let me get back to the story.
> 
> April - August
> My wife and I had been trying to work things out and move forward. The thoughts of her sending pics and telling another man I love you while I'm working hard to keep the family afloat plagues me until this day. So the next few months I had to cope with this. Things were getting better. I kept tabs on her and tried to slowly wean myself off of searching through her stuff. I confirmed that she wasn't communicating with the OM anymore. Also found that the OM was a sociopath which was pretty interesting. I know that at some point I would need to try and trust her again passively and I was doing well, but then Mrs. KC asks me if i've been on her facebook account? I'm thinking what, why would you ask that? So I decided to go through her account and found messages between her and this other guy from college where the messages were deleted. I confront her again and she said this guy was nothing like the other guy. He has no interest in her and is like a brother. She deleted the messages because I wouldn't like the communication between them.
> ...


You poor, naive fool.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You have no boundaries and are getting walked on. Excuses aren't going to help you much.

Prepare for more. She is playing you and will continue too.

The affairs are on her 100%, how you are handling yourself in this is on you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

KC,

What is it you want? That was painful to read because we have read this so many times. And like you, many of us have lived it. On both sides. 

Your wife is a cheater. 

Her basic personality won't change. She craves male attention and if left alone she will bang one or more of them, if she has not already. 

Trust us. She won't stop.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Your W is obviously getting exercise spreading her thighs somewhere other than the gym!

I think that it's well beyond a "Come to Jesus Meeting," as she's not only shown you that she's an accomplished adulteress, but an unconscionable liar of the very first magnitude!

Get yourself to a good family attorney's office and be appraised of both your property and custodial rights!

You deserve far, far better out of life!*


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

What sort of Christian religion are you? 
Her church "sisters" helping her to lie? Maybe they are cheating as well? 
The counselor said that you had no real proof? Maybe he's cheating too! 

You could find a new church but it would only serve to be fresh male meat for your nude selfie enthusiastic wife, she will not stop until she cures her self esteem issues from within, she needs rehabilitation from the drugs and for herself. 
Only when she realises that true validation comes from oneself instead of the lust of other males, she might be able to be faithful again. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Yes, blame the medicine, Amitriptyline. The drug should be banned.
> 
> Note: being depressed and having anxiety issues often makes one susceptible to infidelity. This drug was the catalyst. It lowered her inhibitions and increased her desire for sex. Rational thoughts and facts do not change one's opinions when on this drug.
> 
> ...


She is off the drug completely. Her issues are internal for sure as she has some insecurities that she needs to resolve on her own. She is going to counseling which is a step in the right direction. I've called her out now for her unacceptable behavior. I just need to get to the point that I'm able to separate my emotions so that if she does any further wayward/questionable acts then I need to be ready to take action.


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

TDSC60 said:


> Your wife has and continues to lie to you.
> 
> Having secret email account and lying about it. Refusing to name the suspected OM. Both are her way of protecting herself and him. Both show no respect for you and your marriage.
> 
> ...


Agreed, I do know the truth and i'm working on a plan for sure.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

KrapChute said:


> She is off the drug completely. Her issues are internal for sure as she has some insecurities that she needs to resolve on her own. She is going to counseling which is a step in the right direction. I've called her out now for her unacceptable behavior. I just need to get to the point that I'm able to separate my emotions so that if she does any further wayward/questionable acts then I need to be ready to take action.


So how is that working for you?


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Better get strong quick. She's been lying and gas lighting you up the wazoo.
> 
> She has inappropriate contact with another man you confront get mad then let her kick you out of the house?
> 
> ...


I know that i'm weak and i'm working on that. I've been reading nmmng and mmsl primer. I understand that I have got to get better. I would expose her friend to her husband, but the problem is that he has a weapon and I don't want someone to lose their life. Also there are children involved. It's a really bad situation all the way around.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

KrapChute said:


> I know that i'm weak and i'm working on that. I've been reading nmmng and mmsl primer. I understand that I have got to get better. I would expose her friend to her husband, but the problem is that he has a weapon and I don't want someone to lose their life. Also there are children involved. It's a really bad situation all the way around.




So it's better to keep the husband in the dark while his wife bangs another guy? And if he gets an STD or AIDS, your silence will help?

If it was the other way around, wouldn't you want to know? By taking this action you help the other husband AND yourself as your wife will know you are not a doormat anymore. 

You are using the weapon as an excuse for inaction. Every household has enough "weapons". 

This is in no way related to the med she was taking.


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> KC,
> 
> What is it you want? That was painful to read because we have read this so many times. And like you, many of us have lived it. On both sides.
> 
> ...


I want my family to be whole. I'm working on me right now and the kids. I need to get stronger internally and not show any further weakness. I've been going to the gym and eating better. I'm not going to let Mrs. KC walk over me any longer. She's already in counseling and as long as she continues to show progress i'll try to support. However, i'm keeping eyes and ears open also gaining access to all her accounts again (*she changed passwords on me at a certain point and refused to give me the new password..terrible I know). I'll be seeking a lawyer soon as well just in case.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

You need to brace yourself for the possibility that your wife has had sex with many men, including some you've never found out about. The drug only served to exacerbate a personality flaw that she already had. 

When a couple separates, the one who moves out should be the one texting pictures of her genitals, not the honest, responsible parent. 

You should get yourself tested for STDs and have the children DNA tested to verify that they are really yours. You should do these things with your wife's knowledge so that she might begin to grasp the depths of her depravity.

You should speak with a divorce lawyer, at least so that you understand your rights. He can also draw up the papers. Even if you don't intend now to get a divorce, it sends a strong message to your wife about the seriousness of the situation. Right now, she thinks she can get away with murder and you'll just lie down and take it. The divorce process can be stopped at any time. If your wife decides to act like a Christian again, and agrees to undergo years of therapy, maybe she's a candidate for reconciliation. If not, I suggest you find yourself a Christian woman who actually practices Christianity. There are plenty of them out there, and you're young enough to find one. 

Inform your wife's friend's husband about the friend's affair. It's only fair to him, and it will help kill the confidante support-system relationship your wife has with the toxic friend.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

KrapChute said:


> I want my family to be whole. I'm working on me right now and the kids. I need to get stronger internally and not show any further weakness. I've been going to the gym and eating better. I'm not going to let Mrs. KC walk over me any longer. She's already in counseling and as long as she continues to show progress i'll try to support. However, i'm keeping eyes and ears open also gaining access to all her accounts again (*she changed passwords on me at a certain point and refused to give me the new password..terrible I know). I'll be seeking a lawyer soon as well just in case.




Ok. You are doing some things right. Focus on you and the kids. 

But there is ONLY ONE reason she changed the password and won't give you the new one. 

Not only is she continuing to cheat, but she doesn't even care about you sufficiently to hide it, such as by using a burner phone.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

That last update was difficult to read. To read your justifications for letting your wife walk all over you and see you accept her stories as even slightly possible makes me wince. Can someone really be that gullible. 

Your wife is trolling for d!ck. That line about asking the guy if he's interested in her is an invite. First of all IF that guy really reached out to her for advice on how to handle his girlfriend not wanting to have sex, it was text book move that MM use to lure in MW. She knows it, which is why she's asking if he liked her. It was bullsh!t that she thought he was going to say no he liked her like a sister. They both new where this was heading. But to be honest, I believe it was your wife that searched him out. I would bet that they have already hooked up. 

Her telling her girl friend that she's trying to lure this other guy, is her real feelings. I take it this guy is barely into your wife, so she's even more intrigued to reel him in. She wants space to be able to pursue a sexual affair without having to hide it. Which is why she said she wouldn't get mad if you were with another woman. Only a WW would say such a thing.

Being a Christian is more than going to church and reading a few devotionals but then turning around and living like the devil. You've described your wife and her friends as some lukewarm followers. The kind that get spit out.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

KrapChute said:


> I know that i'm weak and i'm working on that. I've been reading nmmng and mmsl primer. I understand that I have got to get better. I would expose her friend to her husband, but the problem is that he has a weapon and I don't want someone to lose their life. Also there are children involved. It's a really bad situation all the way around.


Those 2 books are VERY helpful and I highly recommend them. But as a Christian, you should remember this verse: "*For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.*" 

I also want to make sure you understand that we TAMers are NOT advocating you being a jerk or a tyrant. Sometimes it seems that some new posters think they have to be some macho man. That is not what's needed either. And yes go hit the gym HARD. Maybe getting your T levels up will help you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

KC 

The biggest mistake you can make right now is to leave this site. We are going to help you, but we will be relentless when you are showing weakness. If you can't stand it here, you won't be able to stand against your wife. 

You will get advice from both betrayed and cheaters, guys and gals, depressed and not depressed. 

You are not alone. We will stay with you. Those who leave normally fail to save the marriage, or they come back months later to say wife has left and moved in with other man. 

No matter how much you hurt or are afraid, never show that to your wife. 

Be strong. That's how you will get through this.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm going to echo @blueinbr that you take advantage of this site. Though some of the post can hurt, they can hopefully get you out of the "betrayed fog." 

Take sometime reading other threads. You spot a trend. The BHs that waffle around trying to nice their wife and play the pick me game get betrayed in the worse way. The BHs that spring into bold action, shock their wives out of the fog. These wives suddenly realize they're about to lose the better man. Where the weak husbands repel their wives right into the OM's bed. 

Remember that a woman wants a strong confident man. Don't confuse what you as a man wants. Many times we men project what we want and think that women feel the same. You want a nice sweet woman that makes you feel like she needs you. Gives you a sense of purpose. To a woman those traits make you seem needy and are a turn off.


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## Tabitha (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't know how tricyclic antidepressants differ from SSRIs, but with SSRIs, they can lower inhibitions, lack of judgement, etc. Prozac has often been called the "divorce drug". I found this forum after my husband had slowly turned into a total jerk with several EAs. He'd changed SO much after we'd been married 20 yrs. While I was lurking and gathering the posts so I could join the private section, something happened that led me to realize everything we'd been going through started months after he'd started on Effexor (an SSRI) back in 2006. Thankfully he was open to withdrawing from the medication, VERY SLOWLY, so as not to cause other problems. When he was about 50% off the med, he could finally see what he'd been doing was wrong. He was embarrassed. He's totally changed back to my "old" husband now. When he was on the med, it was hard to reason with him. He could look the truth in its face and deny its existence. It was horrible. He said that even though he could tell "right from wrong" while on Effexor, he simply couldn't care and didn't see why I would. That med turned him into what I'd labelled a lying, apathetic alcoholic zombie. He couldn't even tell when he'd had too much to drink. The former "momma's boy" wouldn't even call his mom who was in a nursing home with terminal cancer the last year of her life. I could go on and on..... And yes, it WAS the med in his case. In a lot of cases: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12F_yiwXqFdalDOs2JQR_y_uF-X8aAqcgqUJoUjrTIWY/edit
That's from a website that was taken down, but luckily someone saved many of the relationship posts. If you are in a similar situation, check out surviving antidepressants . org


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KrapChute said:


> I want my family to be whole. I'm working on me right now and the kids. I need to get stronger internally and not show any further weakness. I've been going to the gym and eating better. I'm not going to let Mrs. KC walk over me any longer. She's already in counseling and as long as she continues to show progress i'll try to support. However, i'm keeping eyes and ears open also gaining access to all her accounts again (*she changed passwords on me at a certain point and refused to give me the new password..terrible I know). I'll be seeking a lawyer soon as well just in case.


Everything that your wife has been saying and doing screams one thing...

"I want a divorce, but I want YOU to be the one to file for divorce."

And I can virtually _guarantee_ the following:

1) Your wife has _physically_ cheated on you, and probably w/ more than one guy.

2) Your wife is STILL cheating on you.

You can have whatever views or values w/ respect to marriage and divorce that you like -- your problem is that your wife CLEARLY doesn't share those views/values, and you're trying to force them down her throat.

*Stop that.*

Instead, accept that she is every inch the needy, insecure, attention-seeking, remorseless, serially-unfaithful slore that she's shown herself to be, and move on.

ETA: Between the witless counselor and the "Slores Club", I'd say you need to find another church.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Your wife has the mentality of a 10-12 yo little girl. You believe that reason and logic can reach her? You are sadly mistaken. Your efforts will be utterly futile. The only way to handle her is to treat her like the child she is. You must become as a parent to her. Take her phone away, restrict her social media/computer access, know her whereabouts at all times and give her real punishment for disobedience. You are not dealing with an adult.

Many come here and are simply unable to comprehend how their wife, the mother of their children, the one who vowed "for better or worse" could possibly be doing the things they appear to be doing. It is really quite simple to understand. Do children often lie, break their promise and show little regard for doing so? They do because they have not yet developed the mental capability to fully grasp and understand adult concepts. Your wife is such an individual.

So then you are left with a very difficult decision to make. As the adult you must realize that this will be your life, more or less, from now on. So, do you want to be, for all intents and purposes, a husband/father figure? If not, then you really have little choice other than to let her become someone else's problem. Then you can find a mature woman to be wife and mother in your family. If you do wish to fill that unenviable role, then you must accept that, just like a grounded child, she will rebel wildly, label you as controlling and most likely leave.

However, if she does indeed stay and agree to follow your strict guidelines then you must understand that you will have to be forever vigilant in your efforts. Her agreeing to your guidelines will have no meaning to her, just as her marriage vows have no meaning, and you will need to be constantly monitoring her activities, her friends and her whereabouts. You must understand this going forward and be prepared to invest this amount of effort to make this "marriage" work. You now find yourself between the proverbial rock and hard place and I wish you good fortune, whatever you choose to do.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> 
> Your wife has the mentality of a 10-12 yo little girl. You believe that reason and logic can reach her? You are sadly mistaken. Your efforts will be utterly futile. The only way to handle her is to treat her like the child she is. You must become as a parent to her. Take her phone away, restrict her social media/computer access, know her whereabouts at all times and give her real punishment for disobedience. You are not dealing with an adult.
> 
> ...




His wife is not a child. She doesn't have any reduced mental capacity. She knows exactly what she is doing. She just doesn't give a fvck about OP. 

It's that simple.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your WW is like a housewife gone wild. She's acting out, acting like a teenager to your sober, responsible adult.

I agree that you must stiffen your spine immediately if you want a chance of keeping the family together. Tell her in no uncertain terms what you expect of your adult wife and mother of your children.

Right now she is loving being the object of lust and desire for numerous men. You are just one of the crew and her ego is soaring. She doesn't believe you'll leave and your devotion feeds her ego trip.

Take yourself out of the competition. Tell her it's divorce unless she does what it takes to allow you at least a modicum of peace of mind: transparency, no contact with other men, full disclosure of all accounts/phones/activities, a timeline of her cheating, a polygraph if necessary.

Get tough now if you want to wake her up. She thinks you need her but she doesn't need you. She has another think coming, though. A SAHM who hasn't worked in a long time vs. a hard-working solid citizen. She needs you and she has to be shaken up so that she realizes her peril.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> His wife is not a child. She doesn't have any reduced mental capacity. She knows exactly what she is doing. She just doesn't give a fvck about OP.
> 
> It's that simple.


To say that she does not "give a fvck about OP" is to ignore the fact that she is a mother, a Christian and a member of society which would indicate that she also does not "give a fvck" about her children nor her God nor herself. She is also an AP which indicates she also "does not give a fvck" about the spouses/girlfriends of her APs. So then who does an adult, fully matured person "give a fvck about"? 

Sadly, it is not that simple.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> To say that she does not "give a fvck about OP" is to ignore the fact that she is a mother, a Christian and a member of society which would indicate that she also does not "give a fvck" about her children nor her God nor herself. She is also an AP which indicates she also "does not give a fvck" about the spouses/girlfriends of her APs. So then who does an adult, fully matured person "give a fvck about"?
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, it is not that simple.




Fortunately NC, you don't think like a cheater.

Unfortunately many many adults just don't GAF about how they are hurting others. You call it lack of maturity. I call it lack of empathy. Same outcome. 

But your referring to the cheater as a child appears to give the cheater an out. Children don't know right from wrong and need to be taught. 

You don't divorce children. You divorce cheating adults who don't GAF about anyone but themselves.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

KC, 

Stop making excuses for why you can't do this or can't do that.....accept the fact your wife has no respect for you, that your a doormat, your plan b and your cuckold....and accept it. Accept that move on....but don't make excuse....not for her not for yourself


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> Sadly, although you were wrong to call her a ******, it turns out that she is one, and a royal one
> at that.
> 
> and for the life of me, I cant understand these councelors that tell you to ignore huge
> red flags.


Church counselor. Most (I didn't say ALL) advocate to save the marriage at all costs, circumstances be damned. Better to sweep it all away.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

KrapChute said:


> It's apparent that I love my wife. I also don't believe in divorce because i'm a Christian. I want to work it out. I'm just tired of finding out about more things later on. Also, She said her church sisters are partly to blame for her lack of honesty as they told her not to reveal what happened because it would crush me. It made things a lot worse that's for sure. I told her that 100% honesty is always better than me finding out on my own. That lies are selfishness to prevent you from getting caught and nothing more.


You have two choices. Live life as a "Christian" and continue to be nothing more than an ATM machine for your wife, while she continues to see, date, flirt, lead-on any number of guys (frankly I lost count) on your dime. You think this is what God has in mind for you?

Or you can leave her. Be rid of this vile, vile woman who should have never gotten married in the first place. Be the best father you can be to your kid(s) and find someone worthy of your attention.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Scripturally, OP, you know you can divorce her without repercussion.

Please understand I am telling you this as a Christian:

Don't let your faith lead you to take actions that will continue to enable your WW to mistreat you.

If it were me, she would be served, exposure would be far and wide, and I would proceed full steam ahead with the divorce.

She is a serial cheat, and while God can forgive her, and you can forgive her, both can be done without her continuing to remain married.

The only thing worse than losing her is having to share her.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

KrapChute said:


> I would expose her friend to her husband, but the problem is that he has a weapon and I don't want someone to lose their life. Also there are children involved. It's a really bad situation all the way around.


No, my man, what you're afraid of is your wife kicking your azz for reporting her friend. Face it Dawg, you don't have a clue about women, and are willing to accept whatever she dishes out so long as she doesn't ditch you. How do I know this? When a man sez, " I have to explain to my wife how she's violating reasonable boundaries and what men are really after", you know he's as ignorant as a sack of rocks about women. 
Here's the thing. The woman told you she check out of the relationship with you months ago. The old, "I love you but" speech is womanese for, "I have no romantic interest in you" which is confirmed by her chasing other men. All your statements about how much you her, you don't believe in divorce, denials and downplaying her activities, et cetera, are worthless in respect to keeping her as loyal and faithful wife. The only thing that's gonna cause her to walk the line is how she feels about you. (and her words and actions shows there ain't a lot of mystery about that)


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Fortunately NC, you don't think like a cheater.
> 
> Unfortunately many many adults just don't GAF about how they are hurting others. You call it lack of maturity. I call it lack of empathy. Same outcome.
> 
> ...


I agree, I cannot think that way but is not empathy a trait that one develops as they mature? Also, I do not see it as giving them an"out" unless you consider having to be treated like a child, monitored in every way and reprimanded when they "disobey" as being favorable to living a life of self governance. I see their life as much more confining, controlled and chaotic. I do not see their lack of maturity as a "get out of jail free" but rather as a "go to jail go directly to jail do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars" where they will be forever subject to the jailer, never realizing responsibility and accountability and independence of thought.

In my opinion, their life is not their own in that they are like a jellyfish adrift in the ocean of life, forever subject to the eddies and currents, being unable to swim against the tide. As I see it, it is quite damning as they in fact have no "out" whatsoever and are condemned. They are pitiable and extremely dangerous to beings of cognizance especially when you become entangled in a relationship with one. 

Whatever you choose to call it there is something fundamentally wrong with an individual who causes harm to their spouse, children, family and themselves. I deem it immaturity for to describe it as intentional implies an intent of unconscionable evil and no right thinking person of conscience could or would act in that manner. IMHO.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

KC,

Unfortunately, for those that have been around this crap for a while, we see situations like yours where the BH is just too shell shocked and cannot get out of denial and paralysis to help themselves. I am afraid you are falling into being one of those guys and no amount of advice, most of it which will be the same in different words, will help you until you are in enough pain from her crapping all over you that you finally move out of your "fog". You are making excuses for her and now if I read it right will not expose her cheating girlfriend because you're making her husband out to be Al Capone. if you were not from USA you will not know who he was.

This will not end until you stop playing defense and play offense, starting with telling her she is taking a polygraph or you are done and meaning it. Un til she believes you are not going to sit there and take it, she has no reason to change.

I hope you stop playing ostrich and get mad. it will help get you out of this funk you are in.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

KrapChute said:


> I know that i'm weak and i'm working on that. I've been reading nmmng and mmsl primer. I understand that I have got to get better. I would expose her friend to her husband, but the problem is that he has a weapon and I don't want someone to lose their life. Also there are children involved. It's a really bad situation all the way around.


I own multiple weapons. I go to the gun range often to let off steam. But I could never just go shoot someone because they make me mad. The other guy owning a weapon is just an excuse. Would you not want someone to tell you if they had solid proof that your wife is in a PA?

Anything that the guy does after finding out is not on you - it is on his wife for putting him in that situation.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

NoChoice said:


> I deem it immaturity for to describe it as intentional implies an intent of unconscionable evil and no right thinking person of conscience could or would act in that manner. IMHO.












*We need to write this off as the engineer being immature, and cut him a little slack 
and put him back behind the controls.



-


*


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

KrapChute said:


> It's apparent that I love my wife. I also don't believe in divorce because i'm a Christian. I want to work it out. I'm just tired of finding out about more things later on. Also, She said her church sisters are partly to blame for her lack of honesty as they told her not to reveal what happened because it would crush me. It made things a lot worse that's for sure. I told her that 100% honesty is always better than me finding out on my own. That lies are selfishness to prevent you from getting caught and nothing more.


What's apparent is that you're dealing with infidelity in all the wrong ways. She tells you to leave the house - you leave the house. She tells you you have to stay in the guest room - you do so. She tells you to give her a few hours each night - you do it.

Barring mental illness, the ONLY way to deal with a cheating wife is swift, strong, ACTION. You must show TOTAL unwillingness to allow any further cheating under YOUR ROOF.

Christian men are supposed to lead their family. You are doing anything BUT leading your family. In fact, you're being led around by the nose. And it ain't attractive.

Psychologically, women MUST respect their man and, yes, even fear him a little. Not fear as in danger, but fear as in what if he gets angry? 

You've been a doormat and every day you remain a doormat, her disgust for you - and desire for any man strong enough to try to take her from you grows. 

You want her to quit cheating? Tell her she has one day to decide - you or him. And if she can't decide, see a lawyer the next day. You can always call off the divorce if she gets her head out of her butt. But she will NEVER stop cheating on you unless you say 'him or me.' Please trust me on this.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Nurses....


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

VladDracul said:


> *We need to write this off as the engineer being immature, and cut him a little slack
> and put him back behind the controls.
> 
> 
> ...


Write it off as immaturity, possibly but I fail to see why one would want to put a child back in the engineers seat, that does not seem prudent. Nor does it seem prudent to deny that the person responsible has exceeded their ability to deal with/control their situation. Again, call it immaturity, incompetence or what have you but the ultimate eventuality is that they are not prepared to handle their situation.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think you need to spank your naughty nurse.

I'm actually quite serious.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

KrapChute said:


> She is off the drug completely. Her issues are internal for sure as she has some insecurities that she needs to resolve on her own. She is going to counseling which is a step in the right direction. I've called her out now for her unacceptable behavior. I just need to get to the point that I'm able to separate my emotions so that *if she does any further wayward/questionable acts then I need to be ready to take action.*


You said - after you wrote this - that she changed her password on her phone. THAT IS WAYWARD ACTION. You need to tell her that, because of what she did, this is not acceptable and you REQUIRE access to her phone to verify she is not cheating.


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> What's apparent is that you're dealing with infidelity in all the wrong ways. She tells you to leave the house - you leave the house. She tells you you have to stay in the guest room - you do so. She tells you to give her a few hours each night - you do it.
> 
> Barring mental illness, the ONLY way to deal with a cheating wife is swift, strong, ACTION. You must show TOTAL unwillingness to allow any further cheating under YOUR ROOF.
> 
> ...


I agree that I have been the one that has been doing all the compromising and it isn't fair to me at all. 

Update on the last 48hrs: Wife states that she's been debating on whether she should tell me about something pertaining to OM from last Dec. She reiterates that they never made contact physically which I do believe from the messages I found. I asked whether our family was in some sort of danger and she declined. She fears that this person brings drama wherever he goes (*no suprise there). She said she realizes that the biggest issues that she's had in life are dealing with men that she's lusted for. I remember a message that I saw between her and OM where she said "I've only felt this way about two other people in my life, how is it that I feel this way for you and i'm never around you"? I now realize that neither one of the other two people were me (*dagger). 

We then get into a heated discussion about her continued lies and rug sweeping. She tries to reverse it on me saying that while she does take ownership of what she did, she says that the breakdown of the marriage isn't all on her. I'm super pissed at this point. She then states that she is looking for a place to live and tells me that we need to work together for the sake of the kids regardless of how things turn out? I look at her and say, WTH? I'm not going to just not take care of my kids, what are you talking about? She replies that I shouldn't act like a child by asking her for the credit/check cards back for our joint account(*the account that she never put money in, but has access to since she's been working...lol).

She says to me that she can't continue to live like this "with the arguing over these guys that have nothing to do with our lives now. Mrs KC says she's talked to an accountability partner who said that I should've gotten over it by now since nothing physically happened with OM" lol. I'm like really? The last time that one of them reached out to her is on Christmas...smh. 

So Mrs. KC is looking for her own place now. I told her that's fine, that I can't stop her and she needs to do what she needs to do. I asked her what is this like a one/two month thing? She's says that she doesn't know. 

Here's my plans: 

1. Discuss visitation. 
2. Remove wife from joint accounts.
3. Speak with a divorce lawyer to understand my rights and file. 
4. Let her know that I want no further contact with her unless it's about the kids.


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> You said - after you wrote this - that she changed her password on her phone. THAT IS WAYWARD ACTION. You need to tell her that, because of what she did, this is not acceptable and you REQUIRE access to her phone to verify she is not cheating.


Yeah I did mention that when it happened, but she said she did it because I kept going back to old emails when things were already over between her and the OM. 

Am I wrong for bringing up the infidelity when something happens that reminds me of it? Like she'll say something that's on her mind about OM like when she found out he was still trying to contact her through the hidden account, but then I question why it was still open in the first place? 

I don't talk about the OM for weeks, usually something stupid will happen where they reach out to her and she'll tell me about it, but get pissed and lets me know that she did the right thing by telling me, but then I give her grief because I caught her in a lie then I get blamed. I'm so confused...am I wrong here?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Immediately remove 50% of the money from any savings and checking accounts to prevent her from draining them. 

You cannot remove her name from joint credit card or check cards if she is a joint owner, not just authorized user, without her permission. 

But open new account and have your paycheck put into that account only you access. 

Call the credit card companies tell them you lost your cards. They will send you new cards and the old ones won't work. Don't give her the new card. Tell her to apply for her own cards. 

But make sure all the normal bills are paid. See an attorney immediately.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

KrapChute said:


> Yeah I did mention that when it happened, but she said she did it because I kept going back to old emails when things were already over between her and the OM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




None of that matters now. She wants her own place so she can bang other guys. 

And she wants you to finance it by not cutting off her access to your money. 

What a ****ing piece of work. 

Btw, you are right. Those email accounts should have been closed. She WANTS to know they reach out to her because she will be ****ing them as soon as she moves out. Or before she moves out. 

You should be in full divorce mode.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

jsmart said:


> How many BHs do we have that try to make their wife's betrayal something that was out of her control. She's not a child. She's a married mother that's decided she no longer wants to be married and instead wants to wh0re around like her friend.
> 
> Don't make excuses for her actions and definitely don't down play what she's done. You have to know that it is VERY likely that she's been banging this guy for months. The sending of nude pics is to tide the guy over until they next hook up.
> 
> ...


This is one of the best comments I've seen in response to a cheating, lying spouse. Really well said.

I don't see your wife OP, as really being remotely remorseful...sounds like she's using you as she continues to use other men, for other reasons. She's a hot mess...hope you choose to put yourself and kids first, and get out of the marriage.

Sorry you're in this situation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

KrapChute said:


> Yeah I did mention that when it happened, but she said she did it because I kept going back to old emails when things were already over between her and the OM.
> 
> Am I wrong for bringing up the infidelity when something happens that reminds me of it? Like she'll say something that's on her mind about OM like when she found out he was still trying to contact her through the hidden account, but then I question why it was still open in the first place?
> 
> I don't talk about the OM for weeks, usually something stupid will happen where they reach out to her and she'll tell me about it, but get pissed and lets me know that she did the right thing by telling me, but then I give her grief because I caught her in a lie then I get blamed. I'm so confused...am I wrong here?


Dude any rational person would tell you to RUN, as everyone on here has been telling you to do. Go get some help because you are allowing this woman to bully you in a terrible way. This shows that something is wrong in you. Seriously even if you do divorce like you should, you need to be stronger before you will ever be in a healthy relationship with anyone. People like your SO pick people like you because they know they can bully you and you will essentially bankroll their lifestyle. She is a parasite and you are the host. It really is that simple. She probably has some form of personality disorder, but you are also not healthy because you continue to enable her to abuse you by your fear and inaction. The fact that she has been entirely evil to you and you are still asking on here is it OK to stand up for yourself shows this. All your wife does is bring you pain but you are too scared to eject her from your life. Why???! :scratchhead:

You will continue to attract women like her because they can smell your weakness, it's in abusers nature, but right now it is also in yours. Seriously first divorce her and second figure out why you allowed her to treat you so badly and continued to make excuses for her. This is not love it's codependency. 

Sadly she has probably always been cheating on you, I would DNA my kids, and tell the whole world about her so at least it will be harder for her to pick up some other poor slub. Fight back G-damit! If not for you do it to protect your kids, start acting like their father and protect them from this!


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I have made comments that seem to be completely misunderstood regarding the mental maturity of your W and cheaters in general. I seem to be having difficulty relaying my point. I will try again because I feel it is important you understand this. Your W does not process information like you do. What do you think about when you see another woman? I dare say that your thoughts are benign and transient. YOU realize that the other woman holds no magical power to make your life one of rainbows and unicorns. She has nothing to offer you for YOU know what it means to be content.

Your W does not think this way. She sees this attention as something she "needs". She is so lacking in self confidence, so unsure of what she is as a person that she "needs" this constant validation in order to feel that she has worth. What she DOES NOT process is that this attention is not only superficial and fleeting but is also destroying her marriage and family. She is responding to you very much like your daughter will ( if you have a daughter, I do not recall) when she becomes a teenager and you attempt to curtail her "fun". Even though you, as a parent, know better than she what is ultimately good for her in the long run, she cannot see that and is only concerned about the here and now and neither can your W.

What is best for her children, long term, her marriage, long term and even her, long term is beyond her ability to compute. She wants the here and now gratification of what that greener grass has to offer. Thinking of her this way is in no way giving her an "out" or a "pass" to behave as she wants, it is merely the reality of your situation. 

The only way to treat a child is like a child. Reason, logic and rationale have no place in her thought processes and therefore cannot be utilized by you as tools to affect change. As is evidenced by her statement of you tweo needing to work together for the children, as if you were going to abandon your offspring. In reality it is her she fears you will "abandon".

My point is that if you want to keep this "marriage" then you will have to adopt the role of spouse/authority figure. You will have to make decisions for her since her immature mind cannot make them. This is a very unenviable situation to be in, I know as I share your plight, as do many here. She will rebel and accuse you of being controlling and when you respond by telling her that she is acting more like a hormone driven teenager than a wife and mother, you will then be called unreasonable, delusional and a host of other names. You will be a hindrance to her quest for "fun" and "pleasure".

The bottom line is that she is not mature enough mentally to understand that her behavior is self destructive any more than your daughter will see it when her teenage years come. She wants exactly what your daughter will want and that is to live in your house, with all of the benefits and comfort of same but without having to abide by any rules. She wants the security of being "kept" AND the freedom of being totally independent and answering to no one. So what I am saying is not to allow her her no strings attached freedom, quite the contrary. I am suggesting that you act as guardian, limiting or eliminating her computer time, taking away her phone and access to your finances, monitoring her friends and activities and limiting as necessary, in other words be her dad.

If some here see this as giving her an "out" then I am powerless to explain it further. The simple fact is that she is not mentally prepared to be in an adult relationship so it is therefore up to YOU to take control for the sake of your family. This is an exceedingly difficult position to be in and I would consider carefully whether or not you are up to the challenge or if you even want to be. Your family would most likely glean more benefit from a mature female figure in your marriage than they will be able to from her but there are many other factors to consider. A difficult dilemma indeed.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

She just gets a dopamine rush when a guy chases after her. It feels GREAT. And she wants more. It adds excitement to her life. Makes her feel alive. Important. It is a need she is getting filled. 

It's that simple.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

WARNING: The 180 is NOT a manipulation tool to make your spouse end his/her affair and commit to do the work of marital recovery, IT IS an emotional empowerment tool to help you become emotionally strong so that you can move on with your life - with or without your spouse. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive.

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What does her family say about her behavior? If they do not know it is way past time to tell them.

Past time to tell her friend's husband about her affair. As a matter of fact, tell him about his wife and your wife's affair.

In order to work on your marriage you have to break up the affairs. The way to break up affairs is to let family and friends know what is going on. If they are willing to have affairs they have to have the courage to wear their actions.

The upside to not doing the right things when your wife is doing the wrong things is that it will surely lead to divorce. You need to learn MMSLP and find a worthy woman.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> Immediately remove 50% of the money from any savings and checking accounts to prevent her from draining them.
> 
> You cannot remove her name from joint credit card or check cards if she is a joint owner, not just authorized user, without her permission.
> 
> ...


Make sure your new account is in a new bank to keep them from linking the accounts.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

At this point, you tell her you're free to leave but the kids stay in THEIR HOME, with you. If she wants to stay with her kids, she will:
Cease all communication with all other men
Hand over her electronics whenever you ask so you can verify she has ceased communication
Attend therapy for as long as you need
Remove this 'accountability partner' from her life

IF she refuses to do these things, you'll help her pack.

You have GOT to start acting like a strong man. If you don't, you will find yourself removed from your own home, some other man living there with YOUR kids, paying for her to have another man there, and in debt for the rest of your life.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

As @blueinbr said - get 50% of the money out of the joint bank accounts now and open another account in your name only. Have paycheck go into this new account only. Any bills you are responsible for, get those linked to the new account as well. 

Leave her with the old account. 

Follow blue's advice on the credit cards too. Now that she knows you want to separate finances, she's going to want to go on a shopping spree to furnish her new love nest errrr apartment.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Krapchute

Out of all your posts about what your wife has said and done, I will point out the one truth she said, "I've checked out of this marriage". As a Christian man myself, @ farsidejunky was correct, you know you can divorce. Your wife doesn't want a marriage, my advice is give her just that, a divorce.


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Nurses....




Hey now, I take offense to that lol! She is not the poster girl for nurses --naughty nurses maybe but not the majority


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Listen to NoChoice. He is spot on a lot IMHO.

Pretty much everything your wife is doing, my wife did to me and other cheaters have done to thier marriages. They think the affair is special... When it's not. 

Read: not just friends by Shirley Glass. Your wife should to... If you want her back.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

In OP's 2nd post. He said "I won't divorce because I'm a Christan" and "her church friends have told her to not tell OP everything."

Sigh. Being a Christian doesn't mean a thing. So many think that makes you/anyone above the fray. Cheaters are cheaters no matter religion, color, wealth, whatever. As you see, her Christian Church friends didn't shame her for her actions... Seems they are helping or at least supporting her... Maybe sharing affair stories.

For the year, she seems to not care. Why bother, because of the church she can have EA/PA all she wants and the OP will stay and get more miserable. But eventually some one is going to hit a breaking point.

That is a long year of nonstop lies. The MC nore she seems to be doing enough. Your b wife doesn't care about what she is doing to you or the kids. Perhaps get her the book: how to help your spouse heal from an affair.

You should consider divorce... She isn't respecting you are anyone's values.


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

TaDor said:


> In OP's 2nd post. He said "I won't divorce because I'm a Christan" and "her church friends have told her to not tell OP everything."
> 
> Sigh. Being a Christian doesn't mean a thing. So many think that makes you/anyone above the fray. Cheaters are cheaters no matter religion, color, wealth, whatever. As you see, her Christian Church friends didn't shame her for her actions... Seems they are helping or at least supporting her... Maybe sharing affair stories.
> 
> ...


TaDor: I see what you're saying however I must be clear that her church sisters were not in support of what she was doing. They told her that she needed to end this EA and that this new person was not a friend to her in ANY way. Also that anyone who is not for your marriage is against it and needs to be removed from her life. They kept her lifted in prayer and have been there for her when she needed someone because she was very weak. Almost like all of you guys are trying to be there for me. Like I said before "I agree that the decision from her sisters to not say anything was a terrible choice, but one that she would've made without their input anyway." 

Update: Lately the family is really sick. Definitely some nasty bug going around so I've been trying to take care of them the best that I can. Had a discussion with Mrs. KC and told her straight up I'm not going to be second to any man in my house any longer. If anything happens with any man from here on out i'm going to divorce period. I have access to all accounts that i'm aware of. I told her that i'm bitter and i'm almost at the point that I hate her. She assures me that I have nothing to worry about with any men from here on out. I laugh. She says she's going through a lot right now, having anxiety and fear of what this other man will do to her reputation. The fact that she did let the OM go and that because of her mistake she's still dealing with it even though she has no further contact with him since last Apr. She continues that for the past few days she feels that she almost wants to be done with men period..even me. 

Mrs KC has moved out from the bedroom to her office(*separate room). We're just cordial to each other just discussing the kids. Feels really weird being this way with the wife, but I know that I have to just work on myself now. Going to search lawyers today.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

KrapChute said:


> TaDor: I see what you're saying however I must be clear that her church sisters were not in support of what she was doing. They told her that she needed to end this EA and that this new person was not a friend to her in ANY way. Also that anyone who is not for your marriage is against it and needs to be removed from her life. They kept her lifted in prayer and have been there for her when she needed someone because she was very weak. Almost like all of you guys are trying to be there for me. Like I said before "I agree that the decision from her sisters to not say anything was a terrible choice, but one that she would've made without their input anyway."
> 
> Update: Lately the family is really sick. Definitely some nasty bug going around so I've been trying to take care of them the best that I can. Had a discussion with Mrs. KC and told her straight up I'm not going to be second to any man in my house any longer. If anything happens with any man from here on out i'm going to divorce period. I have access to all accounts that i'm aware of. I told her that i'm bitter and i'm almost at the point that I hate her. She assures me that I have nothing to worry about with any men from here on out. I laugh. She says she's going through a lot right now, having anxiety and fear of what this other man will do to her reputation. The fact that she did let the OM go and that because of her mistake she's still dealing with it even though she has no further contact with him since last Apr. She continues that for the past few days she feels that she almost wants to be done with men period..even me.
> 
> Mrs KC has moved out from the bedroom to her office(*separate room). We're just cordial to each other just discussing the kids. Feels really weird being this way with the wife, but I know that I have to just work on myself now. Going to search lawyers today.




She has assured you with words before, correct? How did that work out?? Tell her you need actions, you need the truth, and you need to know all. As soon as she balks hand her divorce papers you printed out from your counties court website. 

The Christian matter, the bible says you are free to divorce if adultery is committed. It happened, now go tell the church sisters to preach the bible and not their opinions.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks for the clarification about the church ladies.

The 2nd paragraph is a step in the right direction... but she is so wishy-washy.
There are different thoughts on therapy. Something our MC brought up when I talked about going to IC was that: ICs aren't shouldn't to be involved with relationship matters when the patient is also doing MC. He had to coordinate with my IC (which I didn't need much anymore anyway)

Reason? The IC's work with the patient and may not have the full picture... and may help break up a marriage. "My husband is a jerk" - IC: okay, then you should leave him. My wayward told me her IC told her "you are not in a fog, you should leave" but that turned out to be a lie that she later admitted.

Her moving out of the home is for freedom to bang other guyS without complaints from you. She doesn't care for you at this time, and its unknown if she ever will. Either way - if you guys split up - DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE. She broke the family, she gets to move.

How long have you two been going to MC? If its over 6 months and no real improvement from her... then it seems a waste of time.

What books are the both of you reading? Your ages? When did you get married and how long again?

She may have checked out a long time ago.

What you are going through, sucks. We know.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

KrapChute said:


> Update: Had a discussion with Mrs. KC and told her straight up I'm not going to be second to any man in my house any longer. If anything happens with any man from here on out i'm going to divorce period. I have access to all accounts that i'm aware of. I told her that i'm bitter and i'm almost at the point that I hate her. She assures me that I have nothing to worry about with any men from here on out. I laugh. *She says she's going through a lot right now, having anxiety and fear of what this other man will do to her reputation.* *The fact that she did let the OM go and that because of her mistake she's still dealing with it even though she has no further contact with him since last Apr. She continues that for the past few days she feels that she almost wants to be done with men period..even me. *
> 
> *Mrs KC has moved out from the bedroom to her office(*separate room). We're just cordial to each other just discussing the kids. Feels really weird being this way with the wife, *but I know that I have to just work on myself now. Going to search lawyers today.


Did she move out of the marital bed because you kicked her out or is she wanting to avoid being intimate with you? I hope it's because you're imposing consequences but I'm thinking she went willingly to avoid being close to you. It's a perfect cover for avoiding intimacy.

Though painful to think off, you must know that the probability is VERY HIGH that she was sexually intimate with at least one of these guys. That talk of wanting to be done with all men, including you, her husband and the father of her kids, is not what a remorseful WW would say. That's sounds like a WW creating a reason to avoid you intimately so she can remain loyal to her "lover."


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Same here... when things got very stressful on D-Day, my wayward said "I'm not choosing either of you" - which of course meant she is choosing to break up the family and OF course, it means she *did* choose the POSOM.

Moving out of the main bedroom (vs. being kicked out) is to get away, etc.

Stay the course KrapChute. Start Divorce, hit her with the 2X4 - she is *SO WORRIED about him damaging her reputation?" uh, that would be MOSTLY on HER than anyone else. ALL she had to do was block him, tell him NC... and of course file a restraining order against him or at least threaten to.

So yeah, expose her to her family and such... but, as they say - there maybe a tactic to doing so if you do it. May knock her out of her fog (But she seems oddly into more than one guy - so I think she wants to be a slot and bang a lot of guys. Hence I was asking your ages and such. Like were you both virgins/only sexual partners? - She maybe getting older and wants to experience other guys - wants to know those "What If" things that waywards do).

When I exposed, I did it to keep her from telling lies "We simply broke up" and to push her away and NEVER take her back. I even posted it "I WILL NEVER take her sorry cheating butt @#*(&(#$&@ back - ever"... and threw her out of my home.

Hence, the older members here say: Divorce. File first and get the ball rolling. No way to live in such a marriage as well as one of the ways to knock a wayward in the gut and maybe bust a hole in the wayward's bubble. Affairs LIVE and thrive in secrecy.


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## KrapChute (Nov 4, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Thanks for the clarification about the church ladies.
> 
> The 2nd paragraph is a step in the right direction... but she is so wishy-washy.
> There are different thoughts on therapy. Something our MC brought up when I talked about going to IC was that: ICs aren't shouldn't to be involved with relationship matters when the patient is also doing MC. He had to coordinate with my IC (which I didn't need much anymore anyway)
> ...


I'm back. I've been doing really horrible this week. Family has been pretty sick. There's definitely some bug going around. So to answer your questions Tador. We've been going to MC off and on since Mar 16. When I say off and on I really mean few and far between. 

She has been reading one of my favorite books which is "The Power of Now" and i'm currently reading MMSL Primer. We're both 39 and we've been married since 2009 so we just hit 8 years. 

She has checked out and has told me on many occasions. 

(Update): Since the new year and my re-dedication to myself, I told you guys that she has now moved to her office and i'm trying to focus on me and the kids. Since she and the kids were sick I did try to take care of them and let her sleep in the bedroom (*I know that I was being nice again). However, today I officially put her out of the room and told her that she can no longer be in here. She keeps continuing to ask why I was being so pushy to get her out. I told her that "nothings changed" I told her that I don't want any further drama and I need to focus on me. I then added that this needs to happen, I can no longer be second to someone else, that I deserve a wife who isn't going to entertain other men, that I'm tired of the lies and the deceit. She of course said, "I'm not talking to anyone else now. I've told you that because i'm not able to properly discern if a person is just being nice or if there's a hidden motive i'm just scared to even talk to someone now." I told her that you need to pray about discernment, but truthfully a big problem is your need for attention. She agreed. She says okay "so you're saying that the reason your kicking me out is because you're not sure how long these changes will last?" I said well that's part of it and I need to just be away from the drama so I can focus. Before heading out, she goes well just so you know, since I am your wife whenever you want this I will do my wifely duty and give it to you. I'm like really? Sounds like you're giving it to me for pity. Like "if I must I guess I'll do it". I just told her no thanks. 

Still haven't found a suitable divorce lawyer yet. Will update again soon.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Since the new year and my *re-dedication to myself*, I told you guys that she has now moved to her office and i'm trying to *focus on me and the kids
> *
> I told her that "nothings changed" I told her that I don't want any further drama and *I need to focus on me*. I then added that this needs to happen, I can no longer be second to someone else, that I deserve a wife who isn't going to entertain other men, that I'm tired of the lies and the deceit
> you're not sure how long these changes will last?" I said well that's part of it and* I need to just be away from the drama so I can focus*.



Krapchute
You are very wise and know exactly what you have to do as you have described in bold above.. You will be tempted to derail yourself from your goals as you weaken from time to time but be determined to get back on tract. You are now in the jungle kingdom and only the strong survive. You have to be determined and fight for your emotional life for a long time. You can be a LOT better if you are successful in building yourself up in every way. The pain that you have will lessen a LOT in time and you can become very contented again.

The marriage that you have is very damaging to you and you have been severely disrespected and need to remind yourself that you must not let her ever get you off tract because you have to become much stronger for you and your children


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She's is not remorseful. Not one tiny bit. The only reason she doesn't want to divorce is that she doesn't want her public image tarnished. 

Do not be her third or fourth choice. She has made it clear by her actions and words that she no longer lives you. End this marriage and move on to a woman who will love you and be the partner you need.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

KrapChute said:


> I'm back. I've been doing really horrible this week. Family has been pretty sick. There's definitely some bug going around. So to answer your questions Tador. We've been going to MC off and on since Mar 16. When I say off and on I really mean few and far between.
> 
> She has been reading one of my favorite books which is "The Power of Now" and i'm currently reading MMSL Primer. We're both 39 and we've been married since 2009 so we just hit 8 years.
> 
> ...


I'm going to give your wife a very slight benefit of the doubt here, slight. She's incredibly emotionally immature. Only emotionally immature women truly have blurred boundaries with opposite sex "friends." I was once one of them a long time ago. 

Being fawned over gives her a grandiose sense of self, but it's fake.

Unfortunately ,you can't threaten or scare an emotionally immature woman into maturity. She has to get there on her own merit or the lesson don't be genuine. She may never get there. You can't live your life hoping that maybe she'll get there some day. It requires a LOT of introspection and humility. I'm not really seeing either.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

You both should be reading books on cheating and getting a better MC - IF you want to go that route.

Maybe, ask her "If you want to be a wife, then YOU must work for the marriage". That hurting YOU is no longer acceptable.

If there is anything about you that wants to try/give her a bit of a chance:
Get your wife this book to read: https://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Sp...r+Affair:+A+Compact+Manual+for+the+Unfaithful

Its a short read, a few hours. It talks to the mind of a cheater. For my wayward, it seemed to knock a lot of the fog out of her... *IT IS NOT INSTANT*

This book is for you, and her... doesn't matter which way it goes. You start reading it first. Have two bookmarks or buy two copies. (I bought a 2nd copy as its 450 pages). https://www.amazon.com/Not-Just-Fri...d=1484216177&sr=1-1&keywords=not+just+friends

It can help your marriage heal or help YOU heal and your future relationships.

Again, your MC didn't seem good.


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