# It adds up...



## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

Okay, I'm new here and this is my first post. To give you a little background, hubby and I have have not always had the easiest marriage (who has right?). In recent years hubby took a job where he would be gone out of town during the week, and normally home on the weekend. His job is extremely stressful.

I attend school full time, intern part time, and am the mother of two kids. Needless to say, I am exhausted by the time hubby comes home on the weekend.

Throughout our marriage, household chores have been a sore issue for hubby and I. He is of the mindset that he shouldn't have to help around inside the house. 

A recent argument ensued between hubby and I about chores. I think he should help around the house. The way I see it, we are supposed to be partners. If something happened and I no longer were in the home he would be responsible for cleaning. Correct?

He claims he is exhausted from being out of town during the week and the last thing he wants to do is help clean.

It's like he has absolutely no clue what it's like to play momma and daddy while he's gone. I'm not looking for a pity party, but what I am looking for is help.

I have asked and asked, explained to him how I feel...blah, blah, blah. That didn't work. How can I get him to help more?


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## par4 (Mar 8, 2012)

Hire someone to do the chores. What would his reaction be?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

par4 said:


> Hire someone to do the chores. What would his reaction be?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I actually thought about that this evening. I'm sure he would not be happy and state the kids should do more. While I agree children should do their part, they should not do it all.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

I can't really say I know why this is a big problem if you have youngsters. I don't know their ages but since you did hint that they are old enough to do anything, then they should keep the house clean. All it takes is cleaning after themselves and then having one or two chores to do each day like the kitchen (which gets swept each night and mopped if there is mess on the floor), with the weekend, such as Saturdays, being the day for major cleaning. In other words, if they are taught to clean the bathtub and floor (getting up their dirty clothes and drying off before getting out of the tub/shower so as not to make a water mess on the floor) behind themselves and not to leave messes around in the living room, den, family room, dining room, etc., then how much cleaning is necessary? Children have to be taught these things.

Then, Saturdays can be for the major cleaning and time to break out the cleansers, furniture polish, glass cleaner, vacuum cleaner and so on. They need to be taught they have to pull their weight because mom and dad have very big workloads (and are not the ones making the messes) to maintain and improve the family circumstances. 

Make lists for each day of the week and for the weekends. They won't be the first to ever have these responsibilities on a daily basis. I never really understood people having messy houses or cleaning the house being such a big issue. Some people claim it gets that way because of the children, but the house should stay clean (neat at least) because you have children. 

With your school and work demands, it may be necessary for you to become more organized for the sake of the children and for the sake of a clean house. It's up to you to teach your children good habits, cleanliness, and organization (and that includes washing, folding, and putting their clothes away) no matter how much they grumble. They will get the message when you stop rewarding them for their lack of cooperation. 

After saying all that, I agree your husband should help around the house. In the very least, Saturday cleaning could be up to him to assign chores, teach them how to clean everything, and make sure the kids get things done. But, alas, I fear you won't even get that much out of him. What you put up with is what you put up with. There are no miracle potions or magic words anyone can give you since he is not even willing. You could teach him how to do things if he were at least willing to help. Since he isn't, your only recourse that I can think is marriage counseling so a counselor can help him understand you need him to be your partner despite his absence for 90 percent of the time. You will have to make him understand your marriage depends on his participation. If he won't even participate in counseling, then you have to be prepared to take a stand and tell him not to come back at the end of the week, to find someplace else to go. Otherwise, there is no point complaining, begging, or arguing if you are just as willing to keep putting up with his non-participation in the home and taking no responsibility for its maintenance.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Huge pet peeve of mine. My husband doesn't help around the house and since my depression, the house is filthy and I know it is up to ME to clean it. I think about it with good intentions and then take a nap.

I say to my H: WELL, I GUESS I GET STUCK CLEANING BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A PENIS!

This isn't the dark ages. Women are no longer required to be good wives and take care of the house, kids, and hubby, with a job and school and still look damned good while doing it. 

Stick with your bottom line. Yes, living in a dirty house sucks, but I am trying to prove a point. I have NEVER done the traditional WIFELY DUTIES because I think I have the attitude of a male. The only duty I enjoyed was of a sexual nature.

If you continue to clean up after him, he will stop trying to help at all. As they were raised, some men just think that it is the woman's responsibility to take care of the house. Who came up with this sh!t!

Stand your ground! A dirty house is better than being someones "mamma." Now, getting him to help? That is a toughy. He may be old school and trying to change old school guys is very very hard.

Hang in there. hide the toilet brushes and vacuum cleaner and enjoy your life!!!!!


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

River1977 said:


> I can't really say I know why this is a big problem if you have youngsters. I don't know their ages but since you did hint that they are old enough to do anything, then they should keep the house clean. All it takes is cleaning after themselves and then having one or two chores to do each day like the kitchen (which gets swept each night and mopped if there is mess on the floor), with the weekend, such as Saturdays, being the day for major cleaning. In other words, if they are taught to clean the bathtub and floor (getting up their dirty clothes and drying off before getting out of the tub/shower so as not to make a water mess on the floor) behind themselves and not to leave messes around in the living room, den, family room, dining room, etc., then how much cleaning is necessary? Children have to be taught these things.
> 
> Then, Saturdays can be for the major cleaning and time to break out the cleansers, furniture polish, glass cleaner, vacuum cleaner and so on. They need to be taught they have to pull their weight because mom and dad have very big workloads (and are not the ones making the messes) to maintain and improve the family circumstances.
> 
> ...


As far as the kids go, they do help somewhat. I think there are several issues going on. For example, it's difficult when my kids ask why dad doesn't help clean while they're helping me. I truly believe in modeling behavior and hubby's behavior, is well lacking to say the least. 

We could definitely use some counseling.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

endlessgrief said:


> Huge pet peeve of mine. My husband doesn't help around the house and since my depression, the house is filthy and I know it is up to ME to clean it. I think about it with good intentions and then take a nap.
> 
> I say to my H: WELL, I GUESS I GET STUCK CLEANING BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A PENIS!
> 
> ...



If I am gone for a few hours I know what awaits me when I get home. A dirty kitchen. This infuriates me. I have let the mess sit. And that's what it does. Sits. 

It seems so petty in comparison to others who have so many problems in their marriage. Yet, it's like it builds. It's hard not to resent someone when over and over again they fail to act like your partner.

We recently got into a huge argument about this subject again. I haven't spoken to him in three days.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

This is a tough one , cause you attend school full time, and have 2 kids...if you was a stay at home Mom though, this would be a no brainer to me. He shouldn't have to come home to cleaning, but you are not. You have a full plate. Personally though... I can see his side- because if I was gone all week long, I would not want to come home to work. 

Men generally have things to FIX around the house -that women can't do ( I Know my husband is sure the handyman here fixing vehicles, leaky roofs, chain sawing, etc)... I would imagine during the week, those sort of things pile up for him aslo ??? .... so then he has to attend to those ...plus this cleaning. 

I think if you want harmony in your marriage, if you truly can not do it...by all means hire someone to come & clean on Fridays... or get yourself & the kids into some kind of multi-tasking flurrry to get the house in order before he hits the door... that time , which is so very short before he leaves again, should be devoted to you & him (you need your intimate time to strenghten your marraige) and spending some quality time with the kids. He probably feels like he has no life. Maybe a better job will come along so he will not have to travel so much. 

It near seems wasteful to me, for him to have to devote that precious time to mundane cleaning.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> If I am gone for a few hours I know what awaits me when I get home. A dirty kitchen. This infuriates me. I have let the mess sit. And that's what it does. Sits.
> 
> It seems so petty in comparison to others who have so many problems in their marriage. Yet, it's like it builds. It's hard not to resent someone when over and over again they fail to act like your partner.
> 
> We recently got into a huge argument about this subject again. I haven't spoken to him in three days.


 Your husband works very hard as the sole support for the entire family and you do nothing but nag or give him the silent treatment for three days because that is not enough. Working out of town away from home is very draining, yet you have no compassion for him at all. You even encourage your children to speak ill of him as long as they agree with you in knocking him. 

If I were your husband, I would question if you even loved me or if you only viewed me as a worker bee meal ticket whose happiness was not important. In another thread you stated that "If there was not a problem to begin with, the husband would not be looking for someone else to turn to". I am guessing that either this statement will come back to bite you, or you will use your husband not doing the housework to justify your cheating. Is that it? Are you looking to get us to agree with you so that you will feel justified in cheating?


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

TRy said:


> Your husband works very hard as the sole support for the entire family and you do nothing but nag or give him the silent treatment for three days because that is not enough. *Not true.*
> 
> Working out of town away from home is very draining, yet you have no compassion for him at all. You even encourage your children to speak ill of him as long as they agree with you in knocking him. *Not true.*
> 
> ...


Do you always pick fights with people you don't agree with?


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## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Hello 
My husband is always around. He works hard like I work hard. Both of us should be cleaning right? He didn't want to do it at first. Alright, then I neither! The house was messy for a week, no more. He likes when everything is clean and nice, so he picks the broom and cleans the house. Good man 
Well, that doesn't work for every couple. You said you ask him for help and told him how you feel about it. Good first step, at least you try something! 
What can you do more than what you did? How can you make him see the point more clearly? What is the picture of your everyday life in his mind? Maybe he doesn't have the same perspective of you. He says he's too tired to clean when he comes back, well does it know what you go through when he's not there? If cleaning the house sound or look too big of a project for him, how can you make it look smaller? You said you can clean, you kids too, and if you husband did little, how would it look like? What do you think he would enjoy more doing in the house? How can you split everything for everybody?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

It doesn't matter if one person is the sole breadwinner when the other person has their own responsibilities.

And I hope no one buys that "it's draining to work away all week" stuff, b/c as a working mom, I know darn well that "work" is much easier and immediately satisfying than child-rearing and household chores. I'd have a wife to cook and clean for me, too, if I could. 

OP, tell your husband that this is an issue that will destroy your marriage. You will resent his lack of effort and you will begin to see him as just another burden. If he cannot be working on household tasks while you and the kids are, then he shouldn't be there--what is the point? You can live separately, get spousal support and child support, and not have to clean up after him. Not as much money, and eventually you would have to get a job, but if he thinks that his earning power in any way is why you stay with him, he is sadly mistaken. If you are already thinking of leaving, he needs to know that--because otherwise, he's not going to change. Maybe if you tell him, he'll get it. Maybe not. but tell him--and at least give him the choice to step up or let you go.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> I know darn well that "work" is much easier and immediately satisfying than child-rearing and household chores. I'd have a wife to cook and clean for me, too, if I could.


 Wow, you just said that working a job is more satisfying to you than child-rearing. Really? Is that true for you? As a breadwinner dad, there is rarely a day that goes by that I do not wish that I could have spent more time with my children. My wife did a great job at parenting and they have turned out to be wonderful children, but I still wish that I could have been there more. 

Also, as for work being easier than child-rearing and household chores, unless you live on a farm, once the children are at school for most of the day, are the daily household chores really that hard? Especially when you should have your children cleaning up after themselves are you really saying that you need to put in a full day of work to do these chores? Be honest when you answer this question, because you can lie to us but your husband would know the truth.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> It doesn't matter if one person is the sole breadwinner when the other person has their own responsibilities.
> 
> And I hope no one buys that "it's draining to work away all week" stuff, b/c as a working mom, I know darn well that "work" is much easier and immediately satisfying than child-rearing and household chores. I'd have a wife to cook and clean for me, too, if I could.
> 
> OP, tell your husband that this is an issue that will destroy your marriage. You will resent his lack of effort and you will begin to see him as just another burden. If he cannot be working on household tasks while you and the kids are, then he shouldn't be there--what is the point? You can live separately, get spousal support and child support, and not have to clean up after him. Not as much money, and eventually you would have to get a job, but if he thinks that his earning power in any way is why you stay with him, he is sadly mistaken. If you are already thinking of leaving, he needs to know that--because otherwise, he's not going to change. Maybe if you tell him, he'll get it. Maybe not. but tell him--and at least give him the choice to step up or let you go.


Not everybody does the same job outside the home... And if she was raising the children to actually clean up their mess and she hers.. There wouldn't be a lot to do...

And how is she cleaning up after him... He's gone a week at a time... If I were gone an entire week... I'd seriously question what she does to leave a home messy waiting for me when I return....

I assume the OP would be happy if he quit his job, stayed home and tidy up and teach the kids how to maintain and control their mess...

Now what I hear when she says this is... "I don't care what you did when I did not see you, you never do enough for me, and I should not have to do anything for you..."
Well my question is... Did you take any consideration for what he says... Honestly, what's his level of pay out for going that extra mile when you refuse to go one....
And a clean house is not suitable answer...
Now I'll give you this, does he truly know all that you do while he is away... Have either of you talked about this, not argue, not nag at each other... 

And if that's how he feels, you can either split (you'll still have to do all the cleaning you desire)
Or
Suck it up, learn to manage your household and accept that it's probably one of your tiny sacrifices, because you probably don't see his tiny sacrifices he makes...


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

No, I said that work is easier and more immediately satisfying than what was typically considered "women's work." NOTHING is more satisfying than being mom--but there is a whole lot of it that is just plain boring and if I didn't love my kids so much, I wouldn't do it, and I would never have chosen to be a SAHM b/c I know that boredom would drive me nuts. Loving them and having them in my life makes it worth it. I chose to work and parent and have no regrets about either--I avoided jobs that would keep me from my kids too much (made career sacrifices for my kids' sake). I found a balance that worked for me, and I do know that work is much easier than raising kids--but raising kids is, in the long run, immeasurably more satisfying.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

No normal human being would want to come to house chores after working away from home all week. It would be okay to have to do it once or twice a year, but to expect the same crap every week is just not sustainable.

If you are attending school full time, interning part time and taking care of kids, then you're simply doing too much with your life. Yes there is such a thing as doing too much with life. If you don't want to do it, understand that your husband doesn't want to do it either. 

At least one activity needs to be eliminated for there to be enough time for house chores, otherwise, your only choice is hiring help.

You're putting too much blame on your husband. Come on. Who wants to do chores after coming home from a hard week of working a stressful job *away*?!!


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I feel for your dilemma. A lot of men don't enjoy house cleaning.
Having said that, most people can appreciate a request to pick up after themselves. 

I hate to say this... but is it possible that since he is gone all week, he doesn't see it as "his" mess to clean up on the weekends?

An alternative to spending a few hours cleaning the whole house every weekend is to do a certain thing every evening. Vacuum on mondays and thursdays. Dust on Wednesdays. Laundry on Sunday morning. Whatever. It's NOT the same gratification as having the whole house smell nice and look shiny after you bust your humps for two hours... but it keeps things under control. And you don't get the agony of going out for an hour and the spotless house is no longer spotless.


So what would be wrong with your H taking the kids to the park or spending time with them while you clean for an hour Saturday morning? Let him have some one on one parent time.


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

"WELL, I GUESS I GET STUCK CLEANING BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A PENIS!"


:rofl:


Makes me want to tie a feather duster to his wanger and go after those dust mites with a vengeance!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

synthetic said:


> If you are attending school full time, interning part time and taking care of kids, then you're simply doing too much with your life. Yes there is such a thing as doing too much with life. If you don't want to do it, understand that your husband doesn't want to do it either.
> 
> At least one activity needs to be eliminated for there to be enough time for house chores, otherwise, your only choice is hiring help.





deejov said:


> I hate to say this... but is it possible that since he is gone all week, he doesn't see it as "his" mess to clean up on the weekends?


Both very good points. 

From your husband’s point of view you do very little for him personally. You go to school and intern to improve yourself not for him. You do chores in a house that you live in but that he does not stay at for most of the week. In his world life during most of the week is work, paying the family bills, cleaning up after himself, providing for his own meals and other needs. He gets little if any assistance from you. For you to demand that he clean up a house he has been away from all week must seem very unfair to him. When you decided to go to school and to intern that is on you not him. If it is too much work while holding up your end of the marriage, drop one of them.

The life that you are trying to push on him is plain unfair. There is no balance. There is very little upside to coming home if it only means more work. To pay the family bills, he must sacrifice being away from the family all week, yet your comments clearly show that you and your children (thanks to your approval) do not appreciate his efforts. Your sense of entitlement must puzzle him and may endanger your marriage long term. If things do not change, there is a real possibility that he will one day decide that living away from you 7 days a week instead of 5 is not such a bad option.


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## itgetsbetter (Mar 1, 2012)

Hold on here...we're to have a pity party for the husband because he works very hard during the week to pay for his family's way in life. Ok. OP, you yourself provide us with the information that your husband works very hard in a very stressful job away from home. So, OP, I get the feeling your appreciate this fact.

But now we have some folks here reaming you for bothering this man with menial chores after such a long, hard week. 

Excuse me, but OP has a very difficult week too! She is NOT being paid to be student, intern and mom to two...but WORK IS WORK. Just because she doesn't bring in a check (yet...obviously she intends to if she's going to school) doesn't mean her work is any less vital for the family to survive and thrive. Or any less exhausting!

So if OP and OP's husband are too tired to do chores on the weekend - understandable for both parties - then why is the onus upon the wife, rather than the husband, to do the chores so hubby can relax?

If you want a stay-at-home mom, marry a woman who wants to stay home all day with your children...support her and your children completely on your own...OR help out around the house if mom has to work just as much as you do. I cannot stand the notion that women are to be mom, breadwinner and maid with no help from husband. Gets me worked up...sorry! 

The fact is, as someone said above, your lives are overscheduled. There is only so much time in your day.

You will either have to cut something out of your life...or hire help (a good idea IMO if at all possible)...or accept the mess. Or divorce him (not an option I recommend) if you cannot accept that he's not going to help you around the house. If you've already pleaded with him six ways from Sunday, he's not going to change his ideas about helping you.

Please do not lay the mess upon the laps of your children. Children should have a reasonable number of chores daily in addition to cleaning up their own messes. It is wonderful for their character. However children shouldn't have to pay the price for their overscheduled parents' lives. They spend all day in school. I've worked quite a bit in schools...most require substantial homework everyday of the week. They almost eliminate recess. Social time is severely limited even in cafeteria and PE environments. Please let your kids have to time to just play and be kids.

The problem with your situation is resentment. Resentment is the single worst marriage poison. It poisons your love until you can't feel it anymore. Once it's gotten to the point of true contempt, you can pretty much forget the whole marriage.

So, OP, be fair to husband...but don't be a patsy. Just because you're an XX, instead of an XY, that doesn't make you the genetically mandated housecleaner. You work hard too. You shouldn't have to do all you, plus ALL the housework.

Back in the day, men used to support their families fully financially. They got on their soap boxes about housework being women's work. Ok, so they have a point when they ALSO agree that financial support is man's work. If you want wifey to pay half the bills, then you put on your apron, Mr.


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## itgetsbetter (Mar 1, 2012)

TRy said:


> Both very good points.
> 
> From your husband’s point of view you do very little for him personally. You go to school and intern to improve yourself not for him. You do chores in a house that you live in but that he does not stay at for most of the week. In his world life during most of the week is work, paying the family bills, cleaning up after himself, providing for his own meals and other needs. He gets little if any assistance from you. For you to demand that he clean up a house he has been away from all week must seem very unfair to him. When you decided to go to school and to intern that is on you not him. If it is too much work while holding up your end of the marriage, drop one of them.
> 
> The life that you are trying to push on him is plain unfair. There is no balance. There is very little upside to coming home if it only means more work. To pay the family bills, he must sacrifice being away from the family all week, yet your comments clearly show that you and your children (thanks to your approval) do not appreciate his efforts. Your sense of entitlement must puzzle him and may endanger your marriage long term. If things do not change, there is a real possibility that he will one day decide that living away from you 7 days a week instead of 5 is not such a bad option.


She does very little for him? She makes his career possible. She has given him, and is almost entirely raising, his children. Is that nothing? He could not have his career AND a family were she not there, at home, all week. Do we know what else he is getting from her emotionally and physically? No, I don't. And neither you do.

And how do you know she is going to school and interning only for her personal amusement and enrichment instead of the getting an education/career that will eventually take some financial burden off her overworked husband? Hmm...??

If my husband thought that way, he wouldn't need to ponder the thought of leaving. The "man" you describe sounds like like a resentful, petulant child...not a strong, family man who is in a loving partnership with his wife. The "man" you describe is looking out only for #1. Pitiful.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Wish I had a dislike button for some of these comments. Journeygirl, sounds like both you and your husband work very hard. Is it possible to sit and talk with him? Make a list together of chores. When you are done talking to him have a family meeting and make a list with the kids. Make an incentive for when everybody does their chores. Maybe a family trip to the zoo?


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

It's not battle of the sexes...
It is simply put you make the mess,
You clean the mess,
It's not put all the burden on the children,
It's the children learn responsibility,
If indeed she is that busy with school and interning, and the kids are preoccupied with school and homework,
Then the real question is,
What is it there to clean up?
Well let's see...
I'm a week from my home, my bed, my wife, my children spending five straight days with people I could do without... And the first thing I want to see and hear walking in the door is...
A broom and mop in her hand demanding I clean the house...
Is he there only to clean and earn money for her?
And we forget, she's mommy five evenings a week, and she wants him to be a father and a husband for one day so he can be a maid for one...
The simple solution... 
Don't procrastinate and dump it on someone else....

Don't make something so simple a battle...
Because it can lead to a useless war, and you'll miss something more important than anything, and that's each other....

I never push on anyone what my own two hands can do, and my wife does not either....


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> Okay, I'm new here and this is my first post. To give you a little background, hubby and I have have not always had the easiest marriage (who has right?). In recent years hubby took a job where he would be gone out of town during the week, and normally home on the weekend. His job is extremely stressful.
> 
> I attend school full time, intern part time, and am the mother of two kids. Needless to say, I am exhausted by the time hubby comes home on the weekend.
> 
> ...


Not sure I follow. Are you saying that you keep the house clean during the week and then he comes home and messes it up? Or do the chores pile up during the week and then you are left doing them all? If he's the mess maker he oughta clean it up. 

Or Maybe you need to adjust your level of required tidiness around the house. Maybe you need to lower your standards 
to match your husbands. 

Have you tried giving him specific chores? Like asking him to vacuum and clean the shower every weekend he's home. I personally respond much better when my wife asks me specifics as opposed to "help me clean" or you never help.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

itgetsbetter said:


> If you want a stay-at-home mom, marry a woman who wants to stay home all day with your children...support her and your children completely on your own.


 That is the point, he does support them completely on his own.



itgetsbetter said:


> I cannot stand the notion that women are to be mom, breadwinner and maid with no help from husband. Gets me worked up...sorry!


 Again you are missing the point. She is not a bread winner. If she was they could afford to hire help to clean up the house and there would be no issue.

It is not all sunshine and roses being a man. The stereotype thing cuts both ways. Women are given choices in how they want to live their lives. They can be working moms or stay at home moms. Men have no option to be a stay at home dad without being ridiculed and shunned. Most men look down on stay at home dad's, and most stay at home mom's do not treat them like other stay at home moms. Few will invite them over to bring their children for play dates when they will be alone with them. Men are expected to work like it or not.


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

Journeygirl said:


> Okay, I'm new here and this is my first post. To give you a little background, hubby and I have have not always had the easiest marriage (who has right?). In recent years hubby took a job where he would be gone out of town during the week, and normally home on the weekend. His job is extremely stressful.
> 
> I attend school full time, intern part time, and am the mother of two kids. Needless to say, I am exhausted by the time hubby comes home on the weekend.
> 
> ...


When you say you've asked, you mean you've asked for help, correct? Have you ever asked him outright WHY he expects you should shoulder all the housework when you both work? If you can manage to get a straight, honest answer from him, perhaps you can find a solution, even if his answer is something like housework is for women. 

If he's harboring resentment from something, like the job away from home, it will spill into other issues. 

You're in a tough situation...it sounds like you both have a great deal of stress and that you are overscheduled.

You may have to both sit down together and see if there's anything you can eliminate from your schedules that would allow you some down time.

Hiring out is always good if finances allow.

Kids should not shoulder the main burden of housework but they can definitely do small chores and help keep things picked up.

Maybe you could invest in things like a ROOMBA (sp?) It's a little space disk that zooms about vaccuming the floor so you can do other stuff.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> When you say you've asked, you mean you've asked for help, correct? Have you ever asked him outright WHY he expects you should shoulder all the housework when you both work? If you can manage to get a straight, honest answer from him, perhaps you can find a solution, even if his answer is something like housework is for women.


 This is not about him thinking that housework is women's work, this is about him wanting fairness. He is the sole bread winner for the family. He is doing his part. She needs to either play the role of the stay at home mom, or become a working mom that can afford to hire help. She cannot have it both ways.


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

TRy said:


> This is not about him thinking that housework is women's work, this is about him wanting fairness. He is the sole bread winner for the family. He is doing his part. She needs to either play the role of the stay at home mom, or become a working mom that can afford to hire help. She cannot have it both ways.


I didn't say he thought that; I said he could be thinking it. The point is she needs to find out what his thought process is about this, where his mind is.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I would be curious to know what kind of domestic support OP lends to husband during the days when he is away. Does she visit and help him clean? Does she visit and help him cook? Or, is the dynamic more that they each take care of their respective residences on their own during the week?

Doing more for each other during the week might be the key to a better dynamic on the weekend, if that was possible, even if it was just a mindset change.

I think OP has a good reason to be frustrated with the husband, but if asking for more meant that he had to domestically support two residences during a week just because OP is too tired to support one on her own, I can see why he'd balk at the idea. He's handling it in a very poor way, though.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Men who think a "sole breadwinner" is "doing his part" by earning the money and nothing else really need to wake up. I am not talking so much about the situation here--but rather, that there are men who still think that earning money is all they have to contribute to having a family. 

Really, that is a 1950s model when women were full-time, SAHMs and one income could provide a very comfortable income and both parties were satisfied with that (actually, women often weren't--but that's another story). That simply is not true anymore--women learned that this type of economic dependency was extremely dangerous (they could not leave bad husbands). They also learned that they too like to work outside the home. Yes, they make choices--but most women believe that men today will be FULL partners in family life, not just bread winners. It is a huge disappointment to women when they find that men still think because they earn money, that is all they have to do. 

Clearly, this is a point that needs to be discussed before marriage and again before having kids. But I can promise you that any man who says that it's only fair that his obligation to the family ends at earning money will find himself single and childless (or married to a really desperate woman). That's what it comes down to.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

TRy said:


> It is not all sunshine and roses being a man. The stereotype thing cuts both ways. Women are given choices in how they want to live their lives. They can be working moms or stay at home moms. Men have no option to be a stay at home dad without being ridiculed and shunned. Most men look down on stay at home dad's, and most stay at home mom's do not treat them like other stay at home moms. Few will invite them over to bring their children for play dates when they will be alone with them. Men are expected to work like it or not.


Men need to be liberated from cultural stereotypes, too. But it takes men willing to fight the fight, just as women did. 
Being a stay-at-home-parent IS an option for men--always has been, actually. All it takes is individuals having the courage to choose what is important to them over what "society" tells them. Women who wanted to work had to break through the "bad mom" stereotypes--and that was no picnic. They too were shunned and put down by their peers, until the balance shifted. Remember it was even worse for women--employers could LEGALLY fire women for being visibly pregnant. Men have no legal barriers to being SAHDs. 

I personally would love to see more dads putting direct time and effort with their families first. Until men as a group get behind the idea of balance in the work/family situation, not much is going to change--those people who DO make those choices will be penalized and those who don't will be rewarded. The system will only change when the majority of desirable workers refuse to put career over family. 

Men have the power to change this--and of course, their worst enemy is the childless young man (or, nowadays, woman) who will do all that crazy s*it (like endless hours, etc) that men with families resent having to do but cannot see a way out of. There is a way--changing male culture to valuing a balance, not to this continuing value on men's earning potential. Some people in the current young parent generation have gotten that message--and I know a few very happy families whose moms and dads spend truly an equal amount of time with the kids from birth. It's still pretty rare, though, b/c it takes courage to buck the trend AND it means both parents are making career sacrifices, which also requires courage and careful planning, and letting go of the ideas of having to have all the material goods that are somehow "required" (in people's minds) to be considered successful.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

I think those who advised you to have a heart-to-heart/one-on-one conversation with H are right. Sounds like neither of you are meeting/know the others' expectations ie: you're expecting his help with the housework when he gets home/he expects his weekends to be time 'off'. What is his 'reason' for not wanting to help? 

My H works away from home as well (he's gone a month/home for two weeks). In the beginning (16 yrs ago), I worked full time, took care of ALL the household needs (cleaning, cooking, yard, vehicles, etc., etc). Our three boys had daily chores they were expected to help with until they were old enough to get jobs of their own. Then it was all up to me. Eventually, I became a SAHM/W and still am but through it all my goal was: To have Hub's 'Honey Do' list as short as possible when he got home. This enabled/s us to take advantage of every possible moment together. Some here won't agree with me, but unless they actually do it/live it they don't know.....working away from home can be just as stressful or more so than a 9-5 job you get to come home from every night. I totally appreciate the sacrifice my H makes for our family in being away but he also makes sure to let me know he appreciates the sacrifice I make as well. In a relationship such as this, sacrifice comes from both sides. But for it to be successful, each partner needs to be willing to acknowledge/appreciate the sacrifice of the other. It doesn't sound like either of you do that. 

I also agree, depending on the ages of your children, they should be doing things around the house to help (their own laundry, dishes, vacuuming, sweeping, etc.) In doing so, you're not only preparing them to be responsible adults one day; you're showing them that their contribution to your family unit is vital. This makes them feel wanted/important.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> Men who think a "sole breadwinner" is "doing his part" by earning the money and nothing else really need to wake up.


 Wake up to what? My wife is a smart, well educated, in great shape, beautiful and popular woman who is a wonderful mother and my best friend. Early in our marriage, after working in the work world, my wife came to me and told me that she would like to be a stay at home wife if we could afford it. Since I made so much more money than her, and since she did not like the work world, I agreed. Although it meant that I had to work longer hours, I no longer had to do many chores around the house. If you think that makes me a bad husband so be it, but we are happy and my wife does not feel oppressed. Of course my wife is a fair and honest person that is not trying to have it both ways.



sisters359 said:


> I am not talking so much about the situation here--but rather, that there are men who still think that earning money is all they have to contribute to having a family.


 Although sole bread winners should not have to do many household chores, they do have an obligation to be active parents.


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

TRy said:


> That is the point, he does support them completely on his own.
> 
> Again you are missing the point. She is not a bread winner. If she was they could afford to hire help to clean up the house and there would be no issue.
> 
> It is not all sunshine and roses being a man. The stereotype thing cuts both ways. Women are given choices in how they want to live their lives. They can be working moms or stay at home moms. Men have no option to be a stay at home dad without being ridiculed and shunned. Most men look down on stay at home dad's, and most stay at home mom's do not treat them like other stay at home moms. Few will invite them over to bring their children for play dates when they will be alone with them. Men are expected to work like it or not.


I don't necessarily disagree with you, TRy.

I am a SAHM, housewitch, whatever.  My husband works full-time, sometimes long hours. Our arrangement is he works, and I do probably 95% of the housework, cooking, ect. I'm fine with it because that is what we both decided works for us, and for our kids. 
It is my personal belief that when a woman becomes a mom, she should put her career and working on the back burner and stay home. I realize all women don't agree with this, nor am I offended when they don't.
HOWEVER, I am blessed to be in a position where my husband makes enough money to comfortably support us on one salary, so I have that luxury. Some women don't, and some simply don't want to be a SAHM. That is ok too.

Yes, I think many women want and try to have it all, as in work full time, be a full time mom, ect, and it's very hard to do both. It just is. It's draining and stressful, and it takes a huge toll on a relationship. Then there are women who don't want to work, but have no choice, if their husband left them, they are single moms, or if the family simply needs the extra income.

I guess my point is that in the OP's situation, he should pitch in with the housework.

My dh hates housework, and deep down he thinks it is woman's work. He wouldn't say that to me, because he knows I'd rip into him like a hyena on a pudding cake, but his feelings about doing it don't prevent him pitching in and helping me out, and he doesn't make me feel bad about his helping. Make sense?

The OP's poster should pitch in and help. Yes, I'm sure he's tired, stressed, cranky...but I'm sure she is too, and marriage is a partnership, good, bad and ugly.

For the record, if a couple has an agreement where the wife makes more money and wants to work, and the husband is ok with being a SAHD, more power to them. And any women who would shun a SAHD from their little cliques just because he's male need to put away their broomsticks.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> And any women who would shun a SAHD from their little cliques just because he's male need to put away their broomsticks.


 Ask your husband how he would feel about a SAHD having lunch alone with you on a regular basis while your husband is off at work. Ask him how he would feel if this same SAHD regularly dropped by your home to have coffee with you while the kids were in school and you were alone with him. Ask him how he would feel if you saw a midweek movie matinee with this SAHD and if this SAHD became your "best friend". Your husband would have no issue if you did these same things with another women but something tells me he would have an issue if it was a SAHD. That is the rub, is it not?

Hearing only the OP's point of view, I do not feel that the OP has made a compelling case. Since I am asking questions, I wonder what the husband would have to say if we heard his side.


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

TRy said:


> Ask your husband how he would feel about a SAHD having lunch alone with you on a regular basis while your husband is off at work. Ask him how he would feel if this same SAHD regularly dropped by your home to have coffee with you while the kids were in school and you were alone with him. Ask him how he would feel if you saw a midweek movie matinee with this SAHD and if this SAHD became your "best friend". Your husband would have no issue if you did these same things with another women but something tells me he would have an issue if it was a SAHD. That is the rub, is it not?
> 
> Hearing only the OP's point of view, I do not feel that the OP has made a compelling case. Since I am asking questions, I wonder what the husband would have to say if we heard his side.



Yes, it is. I wouldn't do that because it's crossing our boundries. What you say is true and it is sexist; I don't deny it. My dh has on occasion taken our youngest to playgroup~mostly women~ when I wasn't able to, but I trust those women and my dh. I am talking about women who put a man down for choosing to be a stay-at-home dad if it works within the confines of his marriage. 

Perhaps there should be more dad-oriented playgroups and gatherings, that sort of thing. 

It would be interesting to hear his side. I am forming my opinion on the info the OP has provided.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Try,

You and your wife made a decision that she should stay home. If she worked full time as well would you help with the housework? Or are you exempt from that even though you both work full time because you make more money? 


Journeygirl works and goes to school. Why shouldn't her husband help around the house?


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

While we're on this subject:

I see a lot of women on this forum advocating a helpless war against mother nature. 

Try to learn and accept this very simple fact:

Men in general are more inclined to be the provider.  A 'stay at home dad' is never going to be the norm because the male human has genetically evolved to be the more sexually and territorially ambitious gender. Why some women don't want to accept this is just beyond me.

The fact that men are not generally stay at home dads is not a cultural stereotype. It's nature doing its work. Most men cannot be satisfied by staying home and taking care of kids or house chores while their wife works. It's in their nature to want to be the sole provider (or the higher income earner) and in charge of territorial safety. That's the role of men in most species.

Just because the advertising world and feminist movements of the past 30-40 years have been successful at portraying men as heartless idiots who are rarely needed in life, it doesn't make it true.

The human race will not survive if men stop being men. If they get rid of their alpha behavior, women will all commit suicide. Fathers MUST feel like men for your sons to become healthy men themselves. Women MUST teach their daughters to respect the manly characteristics of men in order for their daughters to find healthy, attractive and strong partners. 

Despite the popular belief that men are to blame for all the war and injustice that has gone on in history, it's vital to understand that territorial boundaries, rules of engagement and peace conditions are also a result of men using their brains (yes they have brains) to ensure safety and peace for the women and children they feel responsible for.

Stop fighting nature. You won't win.


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## annesmitty75 (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi.

I saw your post and wanted to respond that I have a similar frustration. My husband works long hard hours and I take care of the kids and work part time and there is still not enough hours in the day to do it all. 

We recently started a chore chart which may sound elementary but it has been helping us a lot so far. He was not into it at first but over the week he has started pitching in on a few things here and there adn I noticed the kids get excited when he completes little tasks and that makes him happy. 

The first part was the hardest... just getting him to understand and help out. We went through a few battles (away from the kiddos) but he finally gets that helping out is important. 

I hope that helps and hang in there. 

PS- I am getting a lot of great advice from reading these posts.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Hopefull363 said:


> You and your wife made a decision that she should stay home. If she worked full time as well would you help with the housework? Or are you exempt from that even though you both work full time because you make more money?


 Even though I made more money, when we both worked we both shared in the housework.



Hopefull363 said:


> Journeygirl works and goes to school. Why shouldn't her husband help around the house?


 Going to school after having children, is her choice that she is doing for herself. Today women have a right to chose when they want to have children, and if they want to be a working mom or a stay at home mom. Her happiness is all that matters and the husband has little say in these decisions. Are you now saying that added to these rights is a new right to expect the husband to carry the extra load if she decides that she wants to go back to school and work part time for free interning after having decided to have children? I say if you want the right to make a decision, you should not expect others to pay for that decisions. He is her husband not her dad. 

If she is working too hard she should decide to drop the internship. I would suspect that the husband has already advised her of this, but again it is her decision.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> I would suspect that the husband has already advised her of this


I would suspect that he hasn't because he just doesn't want the "controlling", "abusive", "a$$hole" label stuck on him.

I also suspect attending school is "for our family", "for the future of our children" and has nothing to do with the original poster's individualistic desires.

If my mother attended school full time, interned part-time and my dad left us all week while we were growing up, I'm not sure how I would feel about my parents. It just doesn't sound like much quality family time to me.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

I find all of the comments on this thread very interesting. I want to thank everyone who took the time to make thoughtful suggestions about my situation. 

When I speak of my husband helping around the house, that does not mean I expect him to come home to a filthy house and do all of the work. What I was stating was that for example, if I am sitting on the couch folding clothes, I would appreciate him helping me. Or when he makes a mess in the kitchen, clean it up himself not wait on me to do it. I would like for my husband to join in and help me with what I'm doing, not me watch him do everything by himself. 

The reason I am interning is because it is a requirement for my degree. As soon as I finish my degree my husband will be able to leave his job and find one closer to home. 

For those of you who think women have a choice to stay at home with the children or to work outside the home please show me some statistics to back your opinions up. 

For those of you who speculate about how much I love my husband or my kids...please find another thread to post on. You're wasting your time and mine.


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## eowyn (Mar 22, 2012)

See if you can get your husband to do some work around the house if not cleaning (maybe cooking, looking after kids, something that he likes or is good at)... If he is too tired on weekdays, maybe he could do some work around weekends and you can relax then. See if you can try and work out a schedule with him.

Lot of the times it is not really about the actual work, but rather about sharing and being respected. If household responsibilities are not divided or shared (esp for a working wife) the wife can feel disrespected or 'taken advantage of' and will eventually resort to nagging. This will start a never ending negative spiral over trivial things and end up draining lot of energy.

Try to see if there is anything at all that he does for the household that you might not have taken notice of. Early on in our marriage I would always feel that I do all the cooking, when I mentioned it to my husband he reminded me of the things he does around the house which although not daily chores did contribute to the general housekeeping. I had failed to take notice of it and felt bad about it. The point being that we usually think from our own perspectives. 

If he is really not doing anything or much around the house, try to make him see things from your point of view. Nagging, Criticism or Comparison will make it worse and would be a bad move.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Journeygirl said:


> The reason I am interning is because it is a requirement for my degree. As soon as I finish my degree my husband will be able to leave his job and find one closer to home.


Journeygirl, I am trying to stay out of the gender war fray. I think you and your husband probably love each other very much, but this job thing is a killer.

When I read this line, I found it very easy to wonder if your husband considers his entire job situation a sacrifice for you. Sure, in a marriage, getting a degree helps both of you... that said, he's the one who is away five days a week, and he may be passive-aggressively forcing you sacrifice (by doing all the weekend chores) to acknowledge his sacrifice as far as his job goes.

I could be way off, but the way you wrote your post puts his job - the thing that helps define him as a man - entirely dependent on your life and situation. From his side, that could feel like a big sacrifice.

If I'm not way off, getting him to help more on the weekends might be as simple as making him feel good about what he's doing during the week.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> The reason I am interning is because it is a requirement for my degree. As soon as I finish my degree my husband will be able to leave his job and find one closer to home.





Acorn said:


> When I read this line, I found it very easy to wonder if your husband considers his entire job situation a sacrifice for you. Sure, in a marriage, getting a degree helps both of you... that said, he's the one who is away five days a week, and he may be passive-aggressively forcing you sacrifice (by doing all the weekend chores) to acknowledge his sacrifice as far as his job goes.


I wondered much the same thing.

@Journeygirl: Is your husband really happy with the current situation? Did he feel pushed into it by you? Does he feel that it is fair? Does he feel that you care about his happiness or does he feel like a meal ticket that is around just to do service for you? These questions may seem harsh, but have you asked your husband how he really feels lately? Having your partner feel unappreciated and taken for granted is a dangerous thing in a marriage.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> Throughout our marriage, household chores have been a sore issue for hubby and I. He is of the mindset that he shouldn't have to help around *inside the house*.


This is an interesting choice of words that I want to ask you about. It seems to suggest that while he may not help out inside the house, he is doing chores outside the house, such as mowing, landscaping, auto repairs, etc. Is that accurate? If so, have you offered to swap, so that you do some of those while he does some of the chores you usually do?


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

synthetic said:


> While we're on this subject:
> 
> I see a lot of women on this forum advocating a helpless war against mother nature.
> 
> ...



You know what's funny about this? I agree with a great deal of it.

"Try to learn and accept this very simple fact..." comes across as condescending to me. You sound a little bit angry. Are you? Not trying to be rude, just curious.

I like and respect men. I really do. They're more laid back, for the most part. I don't badmouth my dh behind his back, and if I crack a joke about him, it's either to him or in front of him. 

I don't make anti-male jokes in front of my boys, nor do I like the way society portrays men as bumbling morons incapable of boiling water.

My boys are being raised to know that marriage is an equal partnership. Despite that fact, there will be times when one partner is going to shoulder an unequal share of the load. The trick is to try to find a solution that works for both.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

synthetic said:


> While we're on this subject:
> 
> I see a lot of women on this forum advocating a helpless war against mother nature.
> 
> ...


It's not 1950, it's 2012. I'm no bra burner but I'm of the mind set of true equality. Just because I don't have a "ding-a-ling" between my legs doesn't mean I can't do what you do.

In fact, I DO do what men do. I have a bachelors in a male dominant industry (I'm not in that industry right now) and I work in a male dominant industry (petrol). I can run circles around any man just as good as a man can me.

I've earned the majority for the last three years (sic of our income). When I didn't we still halved the chores because I did all the doctors appointments, all the spec ed appointments, all the finances, all the groceries, all the work plus half the chores while he was full time. Now I'm full time and he's a SAHD (and loves it) who only works two nights a week. I still do everything plus half the chores and I'm full time. I even do the "honey do list" as well too.

Don't tell me I have to suck it up because it's nature. It's not, it's choice.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

As for hubby and his job, he has just recently decided to leave his job. He took the job he has now a few years ago because he wanted a change from what he was doing. (It was a family business and family are not the easiest people to work with.) He has never questioned what I feel about him or what he does for us. I repeatedly tell him how much I love and appreciate him. 

As far as him being passive-aggressive, I don't think that's the case. I think it's more of the mindset that he was raised that way. (Mother did EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING, he never even had to clean his room when he lived at home)

As far as chores outside the home, I am the one that does the majority of them. I mow the grass every week. There is no reason for anyone to rake or other chores like that (our landscape is pretty simple).

I take my car to the autoshop for oil changes, etc.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

Journeygirl said:


> He "claims" he is exhausted from being out of town during the week and the last thing he wants to do is help clean.




i have a big prob with that little word. you also "claim" to be tired from your week.

from what i read, no you are not being "mom" & "dad" during the week.

you are letting the mess pile up, shrugging it off, allowing the kids to not take responsiblity for their areas, and leaving it. oh, husband will clean it up.


why does it matter so much when he is home, finally, that suddenly the whole house has to be cleaned top to bottom??

why not just leave it, and spend time with your husband?? why not send the kids off until sunday noon-ish, and eat, and talk, and have sex, go see a movie??

i do understand you want him to be home, when hes home..but shoving a broom and a mop at him isnt the only way he can connect to home.

the two of you should be dating when hes home. i really do understand where you are coming from, my husband [he had this really crappy job] worked about 6 hours a day, and caught 2 busses there, and 2 busses home. 

he was spending more time waiting for the bus, and riding the bus than working any given day. he had even less time at home with me, when i get up he would be gone, and wouldnt be home til after midnight.

it sucked big time. his days off were random, i always thought we could be having way more fun on his days off, and left the cleaning. i could clean some other time.

if he was suddenly taken from me...would i be thinking, oh i should have cleaned that credenza or scrubbed that shower more..?, or would the thoughts be more along the lines of, i wish we had more time together..???


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

Pandakiss said:


> i have a big prob with that little word. you also "claim" to be tired from your week.
> 
> from what i read, no you are not being "mom" & "dad" during the week.*Then who is? I'm the only one home taking care of everything. The food doesn't cook itself, the clothes don't wash themselves and the kids don't get to school by themselves nor do they go to doctor's visits by themselves, the groceries aren't "magically" delivered to our house and the bills don't pay themselves...you get my point. Most of the time I feel like a single parent, yet I am missing my spouse.*
> 
> ...


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I would be curious to know what kind of domestic support OP lends to husband during the days when he is away. Does she visit and help him clean? Does she visit and help him cook? Or, is the dynamic more that they each take care of their respective residences on their own during the week?
> 
> Doing more for each other during the week might be the key to a better dynamic on the weekend, if that was possible, even if it was just a mindset change.
> 
> I think OP has a good reason to be frustrated with the husband, but if asking for more meant that he had to domestically support two residences during a week just because OP is too tired to support one on her own, I can see why he'd balk at the idea. He's handling it in a very poor way, though.



Just to clarify, he stays in hotels all week and eats out. He does not have to cook or clean while he's away.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

Journeygirl said:


> Just to clarify, he stays in hotels all week and eats out. He does not have to cook or clean while he's away.


Sorry that don't sound like a dream to me, why would someone choose to have to take out over a home cooked meal, simply put, yes you're making your life better, but you chose a inconvenient time...

Sorry, either you implied its a big mess he MUST help out, or a small mess YOU'RE making a big deal about... I still stand, the individual who has a problem with it, handles it... And if he has a problem with it, why do you care... You make th doctor visits, gas goes int car to travel, groceries are put on the table, which are used to cook the meals... Well, who PAYS for ALL of it? And HOW?


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

WadeWilson said:


> Sorry that don't sound like a dream to me, why would someone choose to have to take out over a home cooked meal, simply put, yes you're making your life better, but you chose a inconvenient time...*If you'll read the entire post, you'll see I was clarifying their question about whether hubby had a separate residence to cook, clean and take care of during the week..... And at the time I started school he was not doing the job he is now. He was in a different job and was home every night. He wanted to pursue the job he is in now and I supported his decision. Hindsight is always 20/20. *
> 
> Sorry, either you implied its a big mess he MUST help out, or a small mess YOU'RE making a big deal about... I still stand, the individual who has a problem with it, handles it... And if he has a problem with it, why do you care... You make th doctor visits, gas goes int car to travel, groceries are put on the table, which are used to cook the meals... Well, who PAYS for ALL of it? And HOW?* Actually, part of the money I receive for school helps out with our finances. So in essence, I am helping support our family financially as well. *


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

TRy said:


> Are you now saying that added to these rights is a new right to expect the husband to carry the extra load if she decides that she wants to go back to school and work part time for free interning after having decided to have children?


If he wants to enjoy the extra money she'll probably make with an education, then yes. They may have both decided to have children. Even if they didn't it takes two. Why does she have to choose a career or children? Maybe she wants both.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

synthetic said:


> While we're on this subject:
> 
> I see a lot of women on this forum advocating a helpless war against mother nature.
> 
> ...


There is nothing natural about the "sole breadwinner" model. If you knew anything about history or anthropology, you would know that. Ignorance can be remedied with education. And, just in case anyone does not realize it, women were incredibly important economic partners throughout history until the late industrial age when the bulk of their traditional work--converting raw materials into edible foods--was industrialized. Women also worked in fields, and were 100% responsible for huge portions of family resources--the traditional garden and dairy. Geez, please stop assuming that there is ANY evolutionary basis to the model to which you refer.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm sorry, but I keep getting the idea that your too busy defending your view, that I'm not seeing that you're even taking his view point into account...
If its that big of a deal over chores, why not go one more time, talk to him like an adult, stop promoting ALL you do and ignore what he does, ask him politely "Why can't you help me?"...
What ever his answer is, ACCEPT it, and/or move on...
He was more likely the same person he is, but you changed/evolved and you expect him to as well...
And no offense, but it seems to offend me you throwing around the term "feeling like a single mom"...
Single mothers surround the environment I grew up and live in....
And from my witness account, you just exaggerate the idea...
Chores need to be discussed, not demanded...
Don't under sale what he does when he's away... You'll find others can easily under sale what you do...


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Hopefull363 said:


> If he wants to enjoy the extra money she'll probably make with an education, then yes.


 Even if the education eventually means that she will make more money then she would without the education, it will take many years to make back the lost income while she was in school and maybe he does not think it was worth it. She made the choice to go back to school after she had children not him. She has no right to expect him to carry an extra load for a choice that she made.



Hopefull363 said:


> Why does she have to choose a career or children? Maybe she wants both.


 Although getting an education may benefit a career it is not a career. If she wants to work a paying job great, but that is not what she is doing. Also, what she wants seems to be all that matters to her and to you. Why is it that you think that what he wants does not matter? The female sexist bias from some in this thread is amazing.


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## LizLolly (Oct 20, 2011)

To the OP:

I can certainly see that the cleaning issue has certainly caused a lot of frustration that has built up over time. Each person feels unappreciated for what they do/contribute. 

May I strongly suggest hiring a cleaner? maybe just for a few hours a week? and have the kids do a little bit on the side and you can do a bit on side if you can fit it in.

It will a little bit of money but could mean that both you and your husband feel a bit better, and could make your marriage better. Because you guys have been through a whole lot together, and you don't want something to happen later down the line, which has stemmed just from the fighting over cleaning.

Even though the issue seems trivial, but I think at the core of the issue is that fact that each feels unappreciated. Try to protect the marriage in any way you can.

All the best


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

WadeWilson said:


> I'm sorry, but I keep getting the idea that your too busy defending your view, that I'm not seeing that you're even taking his view point into account...
> If its that big of a deal over chores, why not go one more time, talk to him like an adult, stop promoting ALL you do and ignore what he does, ask him politely "Why can't you help me?"...
> What ever his answer is, ACCEPT it, and/or move on...
> He was more likely the same person he is, but you changed/evolved and you expect him to as well...
> ...



I find it interesting that you automatically assume I've never been a single parent. To answer that question, I have. Since I can speak from experience, I have the right to use that term.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

TRy said:


> Even if the education eventually means that she will make more money then she would without the education, it will take many years to make back the lost income while she was in school and maybe he does not think it was worth it. She made the choice to go back to school after she had children not him. She has no right to expect him to carry an extra load for a choice that she made.
> 
> Although getting an education may benefit a career it is not a career. If she wants to work a paying job great, but that is not what she is doing. Also, what she wants seems to be all that matters to her and to you. Why is it that you think that what he wants does not matter? The female sexist bias from some in this thread is amazing.


Reading your post, you seem to assume a lot of things. How do you know who made what decision and when? And where is this "extra" load you speak of? Your perception is clearly different than mine.

You also state that if I want to work a great paying job, that's not what I'm doing. Statistically speaking the more education you have, the more money you'll make. The US Census states this fact. 

The male bias I have read through this thread amazes me. Coming from some, I sound like an ungrateful hag who doesn't know my "place."


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> I find it interesting that you automatically assume I've never been a single parent. To answer that question, I have. Since I can speak from experience, I have the right to use that term.


Then you know that what you are doing is not like a single parent. If it where, you would be working a paying job to make ends meet and have no help at all on weekends.

I am not trying to bash you, but your post comes across (perhaps unintentionally) as if your husband contributes nothing to the house. Remember, his being away from home and family all week is what allows you to go to school, pay the bills and buy the gorceries.

If you want success if getting him to help on the weekends, you can't just attack him (as your posts unfortunately seem to do) for living the easy life in a hotel and eating at restuarants while you scrape by. As someone who has traveled, that gets really old really fast. Mostly, I end up working late so that when I get home I have free time.

Approach him by recognizing and appreciating what he is doing for the family, but let him know that you need some additional assistance on the weekends. Figure out a couple of chores that he can take on (mowing the grass is a easy one to give to him) to lighten your load. Regardless of whether you are justified in your resentment (and it is pretty clear that you are becoming resentful), you get more flies with honey than vinegar.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm more or less with Tall Average Guy... pretty easy for us to look at your side and understand how incredibly frustrated and unbalanced things seem to be between you two. It's also pretty easy for us to understand why your husband might be equally as frustrated.

I really think if your husband felt more appreciated for what he was doing (and this might be as little as an adjustment to your tone and/or word choice, since I think deep down you do appreciate what you have), he might drop his stubbornness and be open to the fact that you need to be appreciated in your way, too.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> I find it interesting that you automatically assume I've never been a single parent. To answer that question, I have. Since I can speak from experience, I have the right to use that term.


 How many of the children that he pays to support are biologically his?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> You also state that if I want to work a great paying job, that's not what I'm doing. Statistically speaking the more education you have, the more money you'll make. The US Census states this fact.


 Statistically speaking, the odds of the two of you staying married is not 100%. Thus statistically speaking from his point of view, he may not enjoy the same lifetime benefit of income that you will enjoy from your education. This is especially true since you came into the marriage having been a single mom from a previous relationship, making the odds of divorce higher. Stop just looking at the world just from your point of view on what is best for you. Believe it or not, his point of view matters too. 

Looking at all of your posts on this thread, there is a very little appreciation by you of your husband's efforts.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

TRy said:


> How many of the children that he pays to support are biologically his?



What are you trying to imply?


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

TRy said:


> Statistically speaking, the odds of the two of you staying married is not 100%. Thus statistically speaking from his point of view, he may not enjoy the same lifetime benefit of income that you will enjoy from your education. This is especially true since you came into the marriage having been a single mom from a previous relationship, making the odds of divorce higher. Stop just looking at the world just from your point of view on what is best for you. Believe it or not, his point of view matters too.
> 
> Looking at all of your posts on this thread, there is a very little appreciation by you of your husband's efforts.


I speak of my husbands efforts on page 4...I think the time stamp is 6:38.

And statistically speaking the odds of anyone staying married is not 100%.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Then you know that what you are doing is not like a single parent. If it where, you would be working a paying job to make ends meet and have no help at all on weekends. *Please don't speak for all single parents. They are not all the same, nor are their circumstances.*
> 
> I am not trying to bash you, but your post comes across (perhaps unintentionally) as if your husband contributes nothing to the house. Remember, his being away from home and family all week is what allows you to go to school, pay the bills and buy the gorceries.
> 
> ...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> What are you trying to imply?


He is not implying anything. He is flat out asking whether your husband is supporting children that are not biologically his. You state that you were a single mother. From that, one conclusion to draw is that you have one or more children from a previous relationship. Is your current husband supporting those kid(s)? How old is that child? Is he or she contributing to the house by doing age appropriate chores? What type of relationship does your husband have with this child? Is it possible that he is resentful that he is supporting them but they are not respecting him and/or doing chores?

I honestly want to know these answers, as they will guide the advice that I give.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

> I never said it was fun for him.


I will say the tone of your posts certainly implies it. You go on in great length about what he does not do and how he fails you, including noting that he does not have to cook meals or clean because he lives in a hotel and gets to eat out all the time. It sure comes across as you having to work so hard while he is out living the life. 

Again, you may not intend it, but you seem to have little appreciation of what he does contribute. If you want him to do more, you will need to approach it differently than calling him a lazy bum (which is what your posts seem to focus on).


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Some people are just chronic whiners regardless of the situation. My exw was a SAHM but it was not initially mutually agreed upon. She just unilaterally decided that I was going to be the breadwinner so I reluctantly agreed. 

We discussed my expectations that if she is going to stay home then we need to budget accordingly. No more eating out every day, cut the cable bill, etc and I would have to get more hours or a second job to make sure that our family did not struggle. 

Well this is what happened:

1. She rarely cooked and when she did she made it seem like she was moving mountains to make the simplest dishes. I was constantly asked to pickup takeout and when I would complain it was WW3 with her claiming she was "exhausted" from watcing our son "24/7". 

2. Could not cut cable because she complained she could not DVR her favorite shows like American Idol. I should have just cut it.. 

3. When I discussed that I was offered a second job that didn't take many hours and made some decent extra money her first words where "Oh great I guess I'm screwed taking care of the baby 24 hours a day. I ended up only working half the hours to quell her rage and even then she would complain about me being gone. 

4. She constantly whined about our taking care of our son even through I woke up EVERY Saturday and Sunday (my days off) to feed him and bottle, play with him or take to the park, whatever while she would wake up at 10:30 AM on both days. I never once complained because I actually enjoyed my time with him. Yes I was tired especially after working 50+ a week but I didn't walk around the house complaining about my jobs. 

Maybe my situation was extreme but from a man's perspective my exw was making me feel like a walking paycheck. I never felt she was pulling her weight but instead of complaining about it I tried to help her watching our son so she could rest or get some "me" time. 

I remember my mom once telling me that she wished she had a man like me when my brother and I were babies. My dad was a hard worker and supported our family well but never did he really change a diaper or help my mom during our tender years. My brother and I were always with mom due to my dads hectic work schedule. Never once did I hear my mom complain to my dad about us. I never though my mom was resentful of my dad and she appreciated his hard work for the family. He was also handy around the house. 

Finally, I'm fed up with SAHM who act like martyrs because they stay home watching the kids. I wish I could win the lottery and spend most of my time with our boy, take him to the park, etc. 

Raising kids is not work in the traditional sense even though Oprah tells you this. You made the choice to have children and staying at home is a privilege that most people don't have. Having children can and will be stresful at times but I LOVE being a dad. When you love what you do its not work, its a blessing. Stop listening to Oprah and her garbage. She doesn't even have kids!


So in recap:

Women: Stop treating your men like a paycheck and stop with this victim mentality. Not satisfied/happy with being a SAHM? Put the kids in day care and get a job. Being a SAHM is not for everyone.

Men: Women are not your slaves so help out when you can and if your wife works partime/full time then expect to pitch in more in the house.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I will say the tone of your posts certainly implies it. You go on in great length about what he does not do and how he fails you, including noting that he does not have to cook meals or clean because he lives in a hotel and gets to eat out all the time. It sure comes across as you having to work so hard while he is out living the life.
> 
> Again, you may not intend it, but you seem to have little appreciation of what he does contribute. If you want him to do more, you will need to approach it differently than calling him a lazy bum (which is what your posts seem to focus on).


The fact is that if he decides one day not to work she will definately have something to complain about when she is forced to work to EAT and have a ROOF over her head.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

And I am sorry if my post offends people her especially women. This is an emotional issue that doesn't have to be. If couples worked together and comunicated their expectations and needs BEFORE having kids perhaps a lot of heartache would be avoided. 

If I would have known sooner my exw's goal of not working ever again and not contributing to the marriage, I would have kept my pants on and filed sooner.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> What are you trying to imply?


 I was not implying anything. I was asking a question based on the fact that you stated that you had been a single parent, thus I wanted to know if one or all of the children were brought into the marriage by you when you married your current husband.

I will rephrase the question. How many of the children that currently live with you were brought into the marriage (conceived by someone other than your current husband) when you were married?


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Journeygirl,

I wish more women would respond to this thread. I hope you don't take the responses you are getting here as typical to this forum. Things have changed. It used to be that the woman had the choice to stay home or have a career. It hasn't been that way for a long time for most people. The economy has changed. It now usually takes two incomes to run a household. I don't think it is fair to expect women to carry the extra burden of bringing money into the household as well as taking care of the children and the cleaning. Now that women have to work, men should have to share in the household chores. Just be clear about who does what in advance. To me working part time and going to school part time equals a full time job.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> If it where, you would be working a paying job to make ends meet and have no help at all on weekends.


The only difference between what she describes and what is said here is . . . money. She works as an intern, goes to school, and is the "on call parent" 24/5. Is it really unreasonable of her to expect him to pitch in on weekends? 

Yes, being respectful in stating one's expectations is a given. However, a flat out refusal w/o any comment other than "I work all week and deserve the weekend off," comes across as pretty disrespectful--making no acknowledgement of all that SHE does. 

This is a family. No one has the option to opt out of family responsibilities anymore. They are so much more than earning money to pay the bills. 

All I'm trying to point out is that it does not matter what some people think should be the case. Most women today will eventually choose to do it all alone rather than be in a marriage where they are doing it all alone. The money is not worth accepting the message that his time and freedom is more important than hers. Feeling like a servant is never sexy.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Hopefull363 said:


> Things have changed. It used to be that the woman had the choice to stay home or have a career. It hasn't been that way for a long time for most people. The economy has changed. It now usually takes two incomes to run a household.


 The U.S. Census Bureau found that in 2007 38% of children in married-couple households had a stay-at-home parent, with 62% having both parents in the labor force. Surprisingly, the number of stay at home parents had actually grown in the last 10 years by 15%, reversing the previous trend. Of the stay at home parents, women were 37% and men were just 1%.

37% having a stay at home mothers is a big number. If you reasonably assume that not everyone that had a choice decided to stay at home, it is easy to see that the majority of moms did in fact have a choice. For example: if 50% of women that had a choice decide not to stay at home, then the 37% represents only one half of the total that had a choice, for a total of 74% (37% + 37% = 74%) of women that had a choice. The percentage of married-couple households with stay at home parents grows when you look at the number for households with younger children, since many stay-at-home parents go back to work when their children are in high school.

Bottom line is that contrary to Hopefull363's false assertion, even today most women have a choice to be a stay at home parent or a working parent.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> Things have changed. It used to be that the woman had the choice to stay home or have a career. It hasn't been that way for a long time for most people. The economy has changed. It now usually takes two incomes to run a household.


WRONG.

It now takes two incomes to live like the consumer slave that the advertising world has turned people into.

It's still possible to live a simple happy life with one income, but who wants to be the village idiot without a hefty mortgage, an iPad and a financed car these days?


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

synthetic said:


> WRONG.
> 
> It now takes two incomes to live like the consumer slave that the advertising world has turned people into.
> 
> It's still possible to live a simple happy life with one income, but who wants to be the village idiot without a hefty mortgage, an iPad and a financed car these days?


If you want to live in a dump with poor schools and bad neighbors? You get what you pay for.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Hopefull363 said:


> Journeygirl,
> To me working part time and going to school part time equals a full time job.


To you it can mean anything but the reality is that you work part time and you go to school. They don't pay you to go to school but they do pay you to work part time.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Sanity said:


> If you want to live in a dump with poor schools and bad neighbors? You get what you pay for.


Not unless the sole income is at minimum wage. If income is very low, then yes, it's not possible to raise a family on it.


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

In most of the marriages I know of, friends, family, co-workers, the women do the majority of the chores in the house. It's just the way it is. Most men could care less whether the house is spotless and are not driving the kids all over town to playdates and the like. So if the wife doesn't clean the house, it will get done a lot less and will be done to looser tolerances. 

Yeah sure I do the dishes, vacuum, mow the lawn, build and fix things around the house, but my wife does more domestic work than I do. Oh yeah, disciplining the kids is my turf too. 

Most women understand this before they have kids with their man. No woman I know ever thought their man would be doing 1/2 the domestic work. They would be happy if he did. But they don't expect that he will. You may wish men were not like this. But most of them are. 

OP: Good luck w/ this fight. My guess is that you will be hard pressed to get him to amp up his housework.


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> The male bias I have read through this thread amazes me. Coming from some, I sound like an ungrateful hag who doesn't know my "place."


Journey: Maybe you could explain to your H that his lack of housework is really killing your attraction to him and that is is a big problem. It is making you think bad things about him. But on the other hand tell him that doing the chores is sexy and reward him as such. The sex reward carrots works very well with me. Many men respond to sex and will do what it takes to get it.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

TRy said:


> The U.S. Census Bureau found that in 2007 38% of children in married-couple households had a stay-at-home parent, with 62% having both parents in the labor force. Surprisingly, the number of stay at home parents had actually grown in the last 10 years by 15%, reversing the previous trend. Of the stay at home parents, women were 37% and men were just 1%.
> 
> 37% having a stay at home mothers is a big number. If you reasonably assume that not everyone that had a choice decided to stay at home, it is easy to see that the majority of moms did in fact have a choice. For example: if 50% of women that had a choice decide not to stay at home, then the 37% represents only one half of the total that had a choice, for a total of 74% (37% + 37% = 74%) of women that had a choice. The percentage of married-couple households with stay at home parents grows when you look at the number for households with younger children, since many stay-at-home parents go back to work when their children are in high school.
> 
> Bottom line is that contrary to Hopefull363's false assertion, even today most women have a choice to be a stay at home parent or a working parent.


Could you please provide a link for your numbers?

For argument's sake, let's stick to the same numbers. I am providing a link for my information. In households where the children are 15 and younger, there are only 23 percent of stay at home mothers. And I quote..."This proportion decreased in the last few years during the recession. In 2007 — before the recession began — the corresponding figure was 24 percent."

In today's economy, there are fewer women who can make the choice to stay at home.

Newsroom: Families & Households: More Young Adults are Living in Their Parents' Home, Census Bureau Reports


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

Sanity said:


> Some people are just chronic whiners regardless of the situation. My exw was a SAHM but it was not initially mutually agreed upon. She just unilaterally decided that I was going to be the breadwinner so I reluctantly agreed.
> 
> We discussed my expectations that if she is going to stay home then we need to budget accordingly. No more eating out every day, cut the cable bill, etc and I would have to get more hours or a second job to make sure that our family did not struggle.
> 
> ...


First, I do not have a victim mentality nor do I treat my husband as a simple paycheck. Once I graduate college I will no longer be a SAHM. All I was asking for was input on how to get him to help me more, not do everything. Do you consider interning part time and going to school full time a requirement for a man to help around the house?

And secondly, no offense, but I am not your ex. Our situations are completely different. So please do not put me in the same category as her.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

Sanity said:


> The fact is that if he decides one day not to work she will definately have something to complain about when she is forced to work to EAT and have a ROOF over her head.


Where did I state that I would never work? I've stated throughout this thread that I intend to work as soon as I graduate.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

TRy said:


> I was not implying anything. I was asking a question based on the fact that you stated that you had been a single parent, thus I wanted to know if one or all of the children were brought into the marriage by you when you married your current husband.
> 
> I will rephrase the question. How many of the children that currently live with you were brought into the marriage (conceived by someone other than your current husband) when you were married?


They are his.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

This thread seems so sad and argumentative to me. 

Journey, my guess is that you are at wits end and you deserve help at home. If your husband was here, I would tell him that he should wake up and realize what he stands to lose if he doesn't, because eventually you'll get sick of him and leave.

He's not here. So, working from your side, I would recommend to you that you appreciate what he does a bit more, and communicate how helpful it would be for you and how much more connected you would feel to him if he could appreciate you more in the same way by helping around the house.

It does not matter who is right or wrong, or what the census says, or if there is male or female bias in the thread. That's just noise. The facts seem to indicate that your husband does not take your contributions very seriously, and you have built up serious resentment to him (maybe for his inability to help, or maybe you also don't take his contributions seriously). Either way, you are both in a negative spiral and one of you needs to stop it. It doesn't sound like it's going to be him - hopefully, it can be you.

I hope things work out for you.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> The only difference between what she describes and what is said here is . . . money. She works as an intern, goes to school, and is the "on call parent" 24/5. Is it really unreasonable of her to expect him to pitch in on weekends?


Not at all. Of course, that state is the direct consequence of the decisions that they, including she, made. She decided that she wanted to go back to school and take an internship position. Commendable, but she needs to realize there will be a scarifices to do so. To support her, their family and her goals, he had to take a job that kept him away all week. To hand wave that away as only money really trivilizes what he is doing for her. That money is making her goal of getting an education possible. Without the money that he brings in, she is working a paying job, not get her education or working her intership and still having to be on call for the kids. Even a modicum of appreciation would probably go a long way with him.

Most men don't need a ticker tape parade every day. But a heartful thanks every so often goes a huge way. I work some pretty long hours at times, but it allows my wife to stay home to raise our kids. After a particularly long and crappy day, I kind feel back onto the couch. My wife sat down next to me, snuggled up and said thanks for doing this for our family. That is all it took and all I needed. She said nothing more and just laid her head against my shoulder, but it was like it was all worth it. 



> Yes, being respectful in stating one's expectations is a given. However, a flat out refusal w/o any comment other than "I work all week and deserve the weekend off," comes across as pretty disrespectful--making no acknowledgement of all that SHE does.


Again, I don't disagree, but I have yet to see the OP note any appreciation for what her husband does. I don't think it is too far out on a limb to guess that such an attitude is clearly communicated to him as well. If she wants him ot be a partner, she needs to recognize his contributions as well.



> This is a family. No one has the option to opt out of family responsibilities anymore. They are so much more than earning money to pay the bills.


There is also more than just her getting her education. Why is that depicted as some incredible sacrifice on her part while is job is merely money? Is she willing to quit, take a job that pays so he can find one that allows him to be home during the evening? 



> All I'm trying to point out is that it does not matter what some people think should be the case. Most women today will eventually choose to do it all alone rather than be in a marriage where they are doing it all alone. The money is not worth accepting the message that his time and freedom is more important than hers. Feeling like a servant is never sexy.


Of course not but that goes both ways. If the first thing that happens (and based on the tone of the posts I suspect it does) when he walks in the door is she starts on him about all the stuff he needs to do around the house, she is all but guaranteeing that he is resenting the role he has been given.

I can also tell you that feeling like nothing more than a paycheck sure did not make me feel like doing a dang thing for my wife. We had real issues with this, to the point of her "complaining" when I managed to get home earlier than planned because it cut in to her alone time. While I handled that resulting explosion poorly, I do note it took a long time before I had a real urge to come home in the evenings.

Back to the OP and her issues, I will note that she is the one coming here for advice, not her husband. It does her no good to pat her on the back and tell her how awful her husband is. Perhaps it makes her feel better, but it does not solve the problem. If she just wants to vent and feel validated, then please let me know and I want waste her time with posts. 

But is she wants actual help in gaining an understanding on what her husband may be thinking, and how to best approach him to compromise, then she (and others) need to quit getting so defensive when it is suggested that she is less than a perfect wife, mother and woman. Her tone and characterization of what she does versus what he does indicates score keeping. If she wants him to do more, attacking him won't get her what see wants.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> First, I do not have a victim mentality nor do I treat my husband as a simple paycheck. Once I graduate college I will no longer be a SAHM. All I was asking for was input on how to get him to help me more, not do everything. Do you consider interning part time and going to school full time a requirement for a man to help around the house?
> 
> And secondly, no offense, but I am not your ex. Our situations are completely different. So please do not put me in the same category as her.


I'm sorry if I came on a bit harsh. I just find it difficult to understand how anybody who has the privilege of staying home has any room to complain. Having kids is a choice and they must be taken care of. Somebody needs to make money to pay the bills and somebody needs to take care of the kids. Does your husband complain and want you to come to his extremely stressful job(as you put it) and help him do his job? I remember talking to my mom sometime ago about this and she said that sure she wished my dad would change a diaper here and there but she appreciated his contribution to the family and thought that a poopy diaper wasn't worth the hassle. 

My point is that you are going to have to decide if all the complaining and arguing is worth your marriage. Nagging and constant arguing about the same thing are cancers in a marriage. 

Having said this, maybe you have too much going on in your life right now. Two kids, full time student, internship and a husband who is out most of the week is a bit much. Maybe you can discuss this with your husband and make some life decisions that would help spread the load. Can't he get get a less stressful job or one that does not require him to be out so long?


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Her tone and characterization of what she does versus what he does indicates score keeping. If she wants him to do more, attacking him won't get her what see wants.


Great point here TAG.


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## Journeygirl (Mar 14, 2012)

Since I am new here, I would like to ask a question. Is it common practice for people to automatically assume things on this site?

For example, I have been accused of "attacking" my husband as well as being a nag, yet none of you know me personally. You automatically assumed these things about me. 

Was I open to suggestions? Absolutely, however I am less inclined to listen to you if you pair your suggestions with false statements about me. 

I find it ironic how some of you stated I was one-way, yet you continued to view my situation with tunnel vision. You had your minds made up that I was some kind of hag that attacked my husband the minute he walked in the door.

If you'll look back at the beginning of the thread things didn't get ugly until TRy started to attack me. They didn't like what I wrote in another thread and went after me. From then on it got ugly. 

I will no longer be posting here. There have been some good suggestions, and I really appreciate them. However, making false accusations and specifically calling names is not called for. I do not mind debates, what I do mind is rudeness.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Sorry to hear, Journey. Hope things work out for you.

There was a lot of political nonsense being played out in this thread, but the rest of it was opinions from people based on their own experiences. There are both men and women answering you that have been hurt in their own way, and it usually shows in their posts, including mine, sadly.

Filter out the bad, consider the good, do what's right for you. Remember, the advice is as good as the price you paid for it.


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> Since I am new here, I would like to ask a question. Is it common practice for people to automatically assume things on this site?
> 
> For example, I have been accused of "attacking" my husband as well as being a nag, yet none of you know me personally. You automatically assumed these things about me.
> 
> ...


This place is a good sounding board and the topics of discussion have really opened my eyes. 

I think what you have discovered is that there are a lot of people who have had significant problems in their own lives w/ the very issue you brought up. Lots of hurt feelings on each side. So yeah, the posts get pretty passionate. You can't take it personally. It's more of a comment on their own experiences rather than yours. My advice is to ignore the flamers. You're not going to change their minds anyway. 

Best regards.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Journeygirl said:


> Since I am new here, I would like to ask a question. Is it common practice for people to automatically assume things on this site?
> 
> For example, I have been accused of "attacking" my husband as well as being a nag, yet none of you know me personally. You automatically assumed these things about me.
> 
> ...


My advice was given based on the information you gave and the tone of your posts. I tried to offer insight into what you husband might be thinking or how your actions might be perceived. I was disappointed that you chose not to engage in a constructive dialog. 

I do wish you well and you find a workable compromise with your husband. I also hope you chose to come back despite these posts.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Same deal here Try. 

Sisters and i have had this exchange before but I will repeat myself here for those who haven't enjoyed my prior posts on this topic:
- paid jobs outside the home vary widely in work hours, compensation, stress, travel
- being home with kids means very different workloads based on:
Number of children and their ages
Healthy or special needs
a stay at home mom with 3 children under 6 - one of them spec needs vs
A sahm with 3 kids all in high school and two can drive - way different

The latter case paired with a high hour/ high comp job husband - expecting much housework from him is ludicrous. Yes I am talking about our situation. And like TRY my wife isn't playing both sides of the fence....



QUOTE=TRy;645846]Wake up to what? My wife is a smart, well educated, in great shape, beautiful and popular woman who is a wonderful mother and my best friend. Early in our marriage, after working in the work world, my wife came to me and told me that she would like to be a stay at home wife if we could afford it. Since I made so much more money than her, and since she did not like the work world, I agreed. Although it meant that I had to work longer hours, I no longer had to do many chores around the house. If you think that makes me a bad husband so be it, but we are happy and my wife does not feel oppressed. Of course my wife is a fair and honest person that is not trying to have it both ways.

Although sole bread winners should not have to do many household chores, they do have an obligation to be active parents.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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