# My wife lied about her past



## vandason

@;I married my wife 6 years ago, together 8. Cutting to the chase, we’ve had a good marriage and she has been a great wife. If this issue didn’t come up I’d have no complaints. We have 3 kids together (under 5) and she has 3 of her own (pre-teen, teen). 

When I met my wife and we started dating we talked about our pasts. She told me that she had 3 relationships prior to us meeting, two high school relationships followed by an 6 year relationship. She has 3 children from before we met and she told me they were from her last serious relationship which lasted 6 years and he walked out and hasn’t seen the kids since. 

Yesterday I was decluttering and found the box where my wife keeps our important documents such as passports, birth certificates, etc. I was looking at them and her kids father information was left blank/unknown. If she had been in a relationship with him for 6 years he would not have been unknown, for at least the first 2. She never said that he was removed from the birth certificates. 

I asked her about it and after some arguing she said her kids EACH have a different dad, she was never in a long 6 year relationship and only the oldest’s dad knows he exists but has never seen him or wanted to. She lied because she thought I wouldn’t be interested in (then) 28 year old woman with 3 kids from 3 different men. And she’s right, I wouldn’t have touched her with a 10’ pole. 

What she told me:
She had two teenage relationships from 12-16 and 16-17 year. Then had a relationship from 18-24. Her three kids were conceived during her 6 year relationship. She wasn’t in a relationship or intimate with anyone else. 

What really happened:
She had the teenage relationships, started a relationship at 18, had a child with him at 21. The man she was with left before her son was born and has never been involved in any way. She got pregnant intentionally. After that she had no relationship but hooked up with about 20 men at various points for various amounts of time and that resulted in her younger two children. Also conceived intentionally. She was never on birth control. Whomever fathered her two younger kids have no idea they exist. 

Who is that ****ed up? My wife, apparently. 

So, my wife is a woman who intentionally got knocked up by 3 different men by the time she was 24. Was I suppose to be baby daddy #4? Our whole marriage feels like a lie. There is a lot of things she has lied about over the course of our marriage to cover up her past. Am I suppose to just ignore this because “the past is the past”? **** like that doesn’t just go away, somewhere (however far suppressed) my wife is still that horrible person. She has hid it well. 

I don’t know where to go from here and this isn’t something I want to talk to friends or family about. Just admitting that is the type of woman I married is embarrassing. In it all I have to think about the kids, hers and ours. I am the only father any of them have known. We have 6 kids between 4 months to 15 years, anything that I do affects them. I don’t want to leave my kids with a bat**** crazy mother, who would probably turn around and get knocked up by a few more strangers.


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## FeministInPink

@vandason You have every right to be upset about this. This was a very BIG lie, and she's kept it going for a very long time. I don't blame you for being upset. 

But... is this something that you want to end your marriage over? You say that otherwise, you've both been very happy and you've had a good marriage thus far.

If you can, try to take a step back and look at this from your wife's point of view. She probably lied because she was ashamed that her kids have different fathers. She was young, and had acted foolishly perhaps because she was in love, and put her faith in the wrong type of men. And she was embarrassed, and she didn't want you to know. Maybe she lied because she didn't think your relationship would go anywhere... and by the time things got serious, she thought it was too late to come clean.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I know you're shocked and angry, but don't throw away your marriage just yet. Tell her that you're having a hard time dealing with the fact that you've lied to her about this, and ask her to see an MC with you. You need to talk with her about this, and she needs a safe space to be able to do that. I can guarantee that she is terrified right now of what you will do. She's afraid that you're going to leave her, just like every other man has done.

Please, have some compassion and empathy for the woman you love, and see if the two of you can get through this with the help of a professional.


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## TheTruthHurts

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## TheTruthHurts

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## TheTruthHurts

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## anchorwatch

Do you think she's the same woman she was then? 

Is that the woman you know today?


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## SunCMars

FeministInPink said:


> @vandason You have every right to be upset about this. This was a very BIG lie, and she's kept it going for a very long time. I don't blame you for being upset.
> 
> But... is this something that you want to end your marriage over? You say that otherwise, you've both been very happy and you've had a good marriage thus far.
> 
> If you can, try to take a step back and look at this from your wife's point of view. She probably lied because she was ashamed that her kids have different fathers. She was young, and had acted foolishly perhaps because she was in love, and put her faith in the wrong type of men. And she was embarrassed, and she didn't want you to know. Maybe she lied because she didn't think your relationship would go anywhere... and by the time things got serious, she thought it was too late to come clean.
> 
> Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I know you're shocked and angry, but don't throw away your marriage just yet. Tell her that you're having a hard time dealing with the fact that you've lied to her about this, and ask her to see an MC with you. You need to talk with her about this, and she needs a safe space to be able to do that. I can guarantee that she is terrified right now of what you will do. She's afraid that you're going to leave her, just like every other man has done.
> 
> *Please, have some compassion and empathy for the woman you love, and see if the two of you can get through this with the help of a professional.*


Wow, FIP !

If and when, you ever would have stepped out of your Wonder Women outfit, I would have expected a hard charging Amazon to emerge. Ready to fight or to F...

Nope, a well toned and kind Mother Theresa sprung out.

Are you getting soft on us?

Kudos, Dear.


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## FeministInPink

SunCMars said:


> Wow, FIP !
> 
> If and when, you ever would have stepped out of your Wonder Women outfit, I would have expected a hard charging Amazon to emerge. Ready to fight or to F...
> 
> Nope, a well toned and kind Mother Theresa sprung out.
> 
> Are you getting soft on us?


Wonder Woman was not only an Amazon warrior... she also advocated for diplomacy and civility. 

I'm not getting soft. I just recognize that the OP is VERY ANGRY right now because he just learned of this, and there are two sides to every story. I don't want him to do something rash he will regret.

I'm not advising that he simply turn the other cheek and forget it altogether. I think he needs to get to the bottom of why she lied, and why she carried it for so long. Motives and intentions are frequently more important than the actions themselves.


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## Spicy

Yikes, I would be upset too.

BUT, if all else is well and your relationship is great and has been for this long, PLUS you have children in common with her, I would put it on the shelf and leave it there. It's ancient history now. In addition, it's not like you can't get a divorce later if she proves she is still a deceitful person. 

She sounds like she could very well be a former immature person, that grew up and became a wonderful wife.


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## vandason

I don't know who I married. I don't know her. The foundation to our relationship is filled with lies. We've had hundreds of conversations that were filled with or based on lies. If she had told me the truth honestly I never would have married her. That is not the type of woman I want to be with. Unfortunately I have already gone down that hole. I married her and had kids with her, I will never be able to completely remove her from my life. 

Tonight I am staying at a hotel and she is home with our kids. She has never been alone with all 6 overnight and is getting a taste of what she made for herself. It is probably where she was headed if I didn't come along. 

Her reasoning for lying to me was because she had dated a little bit and the men had no interest in her at all once learning she had 3 kids from 3 men and she was judged by other people who knew. We met through work and she didn't want people in the workplace to know her history and judge it. People assume kids very close in age are from the same father, she didn't correct anyone. She didn't think we would ever get serious. I remember specifically asking her if her kids had the same father, on a date, she said yes. When things started getting serious she didn't want to lose it, then when things were very serious she didn't know how to bring it up that far in and didn't want to lose me because she didn't think anyone else would want her. So I can "get it", I guess, on some f'd up level, but that is no excuse. 

Not only did she lie to me, but she is lying to her family and her kids. Her kids believe they are full siblings and share a father. One day that info may come out that they are half siblings if something medical comes up or they figure it out. They might want to meet "their" dad and he'll know damn well only one of those kids is his. Her family thinks they are from the same man and hold this huge grudge over a man who abandoned 1 child (still bad) not 3. 

It's an ongoing lie. It will be impossible to forget. When I asked why she did it in the first place I didn't really get an answer from her. 

I don't think people really change. How can she go from a woman who will have unprotected sex with anyone who comes her way, getting impregnated to a responsible, reasonable woman? She manipulated the situation to get what she wanted, someone to care for her kids since she chose men who wanted nothing more than a cum dumpster. 

Yes, I'm very mad right now.


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## Andy1001

vandason said:


> I don't know who I married. I don't know her. The foundation to our relationship is filled with lies. We've had hundreds of conversations that were filled with or based on lies. If she had told me the truth honestly I never would have married her. That is not the type of woman I want to be with. Unfortunately I have already gone down that hole. I married her and had kids with her, I will never be able to completely remove her from my life.
> 
> Tonight I am staying at a hotel and she is home with our kids. She has never been alone with all 6 overnight and is getting a taste of what she made for herself. It is probably where she was headed if I didn't come along.
> 
> Her reasoning for lying to me was because she had dated a little bit and the men had no interest in her at all once learning she had 3 kids from 3 men and she was judged by other people who knew. We met through work and she didn't want people in the workplace to know her history and judge it. People assume kids very close in age are from the same father, she didn't correct anyone. She didn't think we would ever get serious. I remember specifically asking her if her kids had the same father, on a date, she said yes. When things started getting serious she didn't want to lose it, then when things were very serious she didn't know how to bring it up that far in and didn't want to lose me because she didn't think anyone else would want her. So I can "get it", I guess, on some f'd up level, but that is no excuse.
> 
> Not only did she lie to me, but she is lying to her family and her kids. Her kids believe they are full siblings and share a father. One day that info may come out that they are half siblings if something medical comes up or they figure it out. They might want to meet "their" dad and he'll know damn well only one of those kids is his. Her family thinks they are from the same man and hold this huge grudge over a man who abandoned 1 child (still bad) not 3.
> 
> It's an ongoing lie. It will be impossible to forget. When I asked why she did it in the first place I didn't really get an answer from her.
> 
> I don't think people really change. How can she go from a woman who will have unprotected sex with anyone who comes her way, getting impregnated to a responsible, reasonable woman? She manipulated the situation to get what she wanted, someone to care for her kids since she chose men who wanted nothing more than a cum dumpster.
> 
> Yes, I'm very mad right now.


I'm not going to try and advice you on what to do about your marriage,there are wiser people than me on this forum who can help you.
What I will ask of you is to try and calm down,you have had a huge shock and you probably aren't thinking straight.Do not do or say something that you will regret later.Take a couple of days and just try and get your head straight.And please don't look for an answer in a bottle,you will only find problems there.
Two things that can't be changed here are
1. You have three children with this woman.
2. She can't change anything about her past life.
These are what you need to remember.


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## anchorwatch

Here's one bit of advice... Don't, I say don't make any life changing decisions while your emotions are in control. You need a clear head for that. Your family needs that from you. 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl

vandason said:


> I don't know who I married. I don't know her. The foundation to our relationship is filled with lies. We've had hundreds of conversations that were filled with or based on lies. If she had told me the truth honestly I never would have married her. That is not the type of woman I want to be with. Unfortunately I have already gone down that hole. I married her and had kids with her, I will never be able to completely remove her from my life.
> 
> Tonight I am staying at a hotel and she is home with our kids. She has never been alone with all 6 overnight and is getting a taste of what she made for herself. It is probably where she was headed if I didn't come along.
> 
> Her reasoning for lying to me was because she had dated a little bit and the men had no interest in her at all once learning she had 3 kids from 3 men and she was judged by other people who knew. We met through work and she didn't want people in the workplace to know her history and judge it. People assume kids very close in age are from the same father, she didn't correct anyone. She didn't think we would ever get serious. I remember specifically asking her if her kids had the same father, on a date, she said yes. When things started getting serious she didn't want to lose it, then when things were very serious she didn't know how to bring it up that far in and didn't want to lose me because she didn't think anyone else would want her. So I can "get it", I guess, on some f'd up level, but that is no excuse.
> 
> Not only did she lie to me, but she is lying to her family and her kids. Her kids believe they are full siblings and share a father. One day that info may come out that they are half siblings if something medical comes up or they figure it out. They might want to meet "their" dad and he'll know damn well only one of those kids is his. Her family thinks they are from the same man and hold this huge grudge over a man who abandoned 1 child (still bad) not 3.
> 
> It's an ongoing lie. It will be impossible to forget. When I asked why she did it in the first place I didn't really get an answer from her.
> 
> I don't think people really change. How can she go from a woman who will have unprotected sex with anyone who comes her way, getting impregnated to a responsible, reasonable woman? She manipulated the situation to get what she wanted, someone to care for her kids since she chose men who wanted nothing more than a *cum dumpster.*
> 
> Yes, I'm very mad right now.


It is inappropriate language for TAM.


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## SunCMars

Spicy said:


> Yikes, I would be upset too.
> 
> BUT, if all else is well and your relationship is great and has been for this long, PLUS you have children in common with her, I would put it on the shelf and leave it there. It's ancient history now. In addition, it's not like you can't get a divorce later if she proves she is still a deceitful person.
> 
> She sounds like she could very well be a former immature person, that grew up and became a wonderful wife.


You and FIP have not been drinking wine with @jld, have you? And later, dipping your toes in her backyard heated pool?
...........................................................................................................................................
I am teasing you ladies.

This is TAM. We have to help some people manage reconciliation. 

Dump Em all! is not a one-sized solution.


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## Truthseeker1

@vandason I agree with the others - please make no decisions while your emotions are running high. You have every right to be angry and every right to your feelings. You should consider making any decsions with the aid of a good counselor. Yes - your wife has a lot of explaining to do but perhaps you two can sort through this. Either way make no decisions you might regret right now. I'm very sorry you find yourself in this position.


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## vandason

I apologize for my language. I have said some pretty bad things to my wife (including that) that I shouldn't have. You are right that I may regret that once (if) things calm down. Right now I'd love nothing more than to never go home. We do have kids together (that were probably created on her part to trap me once I found this out) and that makes it harder to leave. If we didn't have kids, I don't think I'd think twice. I don't want my kids to be subjected to her bringing man after man around and popping out kid after kid to milk the system. 

I don't know how I am going to ever calm down from this. I loathe her.


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## Taxman

Vandason: Right now your emotions are all over the place. Take a while to breathe and think. 

All this proves is that she was young and foolish. I tend to think that a woman such as your wife tended to seek approval in men. The issue of entrapment is troubling, but also speaks to a significant amount of emotional immaturity, as do the lies. Whether or not you should divorce is up to you, I am not that wise. If it were me, I would tend to err toward seeing it as a forgiveable sin. She needs therapy, though. And you need to go with her, for support. Good or bad, you've made a life with her.


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## EleGirl

vandason said:


> I apologize for my language. I have said some pretty bad things to my wife (including that) that I shouldn't have. You are right that I may regret that once (if) things calm down. Right now I'd love nothing more than to never go home. We do have kids together (that were probably created on her part to trap me once I found this out) and that makes it harder to leave. If we didn't have kids, I don't think I'd think twice. I don't want my kids to be subjected to her bringing man after man around and popping out kid after kid to milk the system.
> 
> I don't know how I am going to ever calm down from this. I loathe her.


Milk the system? What system did she milk for the first 3 children? It's not like she got child support.


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## EleGirl

vandason said:


> I apologize for my language. I have said some pretty bad things to my wife (including that) that I shouldn't have. You are right that I may regret that once (if) things calm down. Right now I'd love nothing more than to never go home. We do have kids together (that were probably created on her part to trap me once I found this out) and that makes it harder to leave. If we didn't have kids, I don't think I'd think twice. I don't want my kids to be subjected to her bringing man after man around and popping out kid after kid to milk the system.
> 
> I don't know how I am going to ever calm down from this. *I loathe her*.


Did your children hear you talk to her like this?

Right now, you are on a very bad rollercoaster. Your car is crashing down the steep ramp, you are holding on for dear life and screaming in fear. 

For the next while you will be up and down on that roller coaster. One day feeling ok, the next you will be right back where you are right now. 

Do not make any decisions until you are off the rollercoaster.

And stop yelling at her and calling her names. How does that help you or your children.


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## XenChi

Brother I say leave her. You appear to have been irrevocably deceived, and unless you can make peace with it; will surely eat at you for the rest of your days. But you'd do well to remember this.......she most certainly will drag you through the courts for child support.


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## vandason

Yes, our kids heard some of what I said to her. Our neighbours heard more. That is a large reason I left for at least tonight. Our kids don't need to hear what I was saying to her and don't need to find out about her lies that way. She does need to tell her kids the truth. The two youngest, their father's didn't abandon them they have no idea the kids exist because my wife hid that info from their fathers. They need to know, but not in the way I was saying it. Right now I can't look at her without wanting to yell at her so staying away is better. My wife isn't a fighter, she'll just take whatever is thrown at her.


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## NoChoice

OP,
You are accurate in your assessment that by and large people cannot change however children can and very often do as they mature. The human brain continues to develop into the mid twenties at which point ones synaptic pathways are set for life. Your wife was still within that period during her "wild times" and it is quite reasonable to assume that she has matured beyond where she was then. It would be prudent to analyze her current behavior to ascertain if she has indeed matured.

What is she like now, how good of a mother is she, how responsible, how caring, how is she with the family finances and most importantly, this revelation aside, how has she behaved in the marriage? Is she honest, dedicated, trustworthy, sincere and open? If the answer is yes to all of these then she deserves to be judged on the person she is now rather than the child she was. The children have no choice but to accept her as she is their mother however you do have a choice. Her dishonesty may very well have stemmed from the fact that she was terrified of losing you. It was not the right thing to do but it is to some degree understandable.

Once the initial impact of her revelation subsides you will then be faced with a choice. DO you accept her past as that of an immature girl stumbling through relationships and accept your role as husband and assume the responsibility of parent to those children or do you divorce and co-parent only your children? It is a daunting role to assume but you seemed prepared prior to finding out this new information.

As to what people think I would place more emphasis on how this will affect those children, yours included, than I would others perception of her past character. If she has matured and has demonstrated that maturity in the marriage thus far then perhaps it is prudent to let the past be the past and to focus more on the future. I understand it is quite a lot to process and certainly no one would question you if you left but I suggest that you carefully weigh your options and consider the children and their future without you.

Their fathers abandoned them and you may be their last chance for a family. I do not mean to cause guilt I am just stating what could easily be fact. The only chance a woman with six children and her background may have is to find either an extraordinarily understanding man or to use subterfuge in the relationship as she did with you, which has not worked out too well. Were you happy before? Can you be happy again if she is indeed a different person? Only you can make that determination and I wish you strength and wisdom as you do. Good fortune.

After I posted there were more posts and the fact that only one father abandoned his child was given. It changes little, especially where the children are involved. It just further demonstrates her immaturity. Also, to loath someone is quite damning. It is understandable that hearing this has shaken you to your core but with time this will subside and order will replace chaos. Allow yourself to process, you have just been given a lot of data.


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## Diana7

Yes she was a very very irresponsible person having sex with more than 20 men, especially with no protection. Its hard to see what she was thinking, why did she want 3 children with 3 different dads? Also there was the very high risk of Stds as well. She will be lucky if she escaped those completely. Also she didn't come clean and you had to find out yourself. Yes she did marry you under false pretenses, there is no doubt about that. 

However, I think of the children, her three who are innocent in all this(and who BTW need to be told the truth as they may well find out later), and the three you have together. Thats a lot of young lives that will be devastated if you just pack up and leave. Aren't they worth at least trying for? With time and MC etc I am sure that this CAN be worked though. Of course you are angry, anyone would be, but given time you will calm down and be able to think more rationally. As a dad you have responsibilities and her first 3 children have already been messed up enough.

You may need to stay away from her for a few days/weeks till you feel calmer,but please see the children, even if you have to take them out to eat or something.


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## Diana7

EleGirl said:


> Milk that system? What system did she milk for the first 3 children? It's not like she got child support.


Govt payouts??


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## arbitrator

vandason said:


> I apologize for my language. I have said some pretty bad things to my wife (including that) that I shouldn't have. You are right that I may regret that once (if) things calm down. Right now I'd love nothing more than to never go home. We do have kids together (that were probably created on her part to trap me once I found this out) and that makes it harder to leave. If we didn't have kids, I don't think I'd think twice. I don't want my kids to be subjected to her bringing man after man around and popping out kid after kid to milk the system.
> 
> I don't know how I am going to ever calm down from this. I loathe her.


*Worst possible scenario, file for both divorce and for custody of your child with her! The problem therein is that all of those other kids of hers, whom you have perhaps grown attached to while being there, would be totally left in the lurch! And you probably wouldn't want to see that play out either!

I'm taking it that she is not receiving any kind of court-ordered child support or assistance for any of her kids!*


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## TheTruthHurts

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## TheTruthHurts

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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> Govt payouts??


He said that he met her when she was working at the same place he was working. So, she probably was not on government benefits.

I’d rather have an answer from the OP instead of getting responses from people are simply guess.


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## alexm

TheTruthHurts said:


> You can ask for 100% custody of your biological kids - she had a handful so that may work. Depending on how old the others are you may want partial custody.


This is what I'd be doing ^

Look, you gotta get over the number of people she's had sex with, and the fact that she has 3 kids from 3 different dads. SFW? You said you wouldn't have married her if you knew that, and that's your right (which was taken away from you) - but at the end of the day, it shouldn't make her any less worthy of being loved (by the right man, which you admit that you would not have been). Anyway, it's a completely moot point, because it's not what this is about.

The real, and only, issue, IMO is that she lied to you about all of this. That's ****ing terrible, TBH. Not only that, but she never told the fathers of two of the kids that she was having their baby. That's awful, and divorce-worthy, IMO.

Look, us dudes need to get off this BS about women having "lots" of sex (or god forbid, getting pregnant) before marriage. We men have been doing this for eons - but we don't get pregnant, nor do we get reputations, so we get to walk away thinking we're just guys being guys. So don't make this about that.

What it IS about is that she did it all on purpose, and hid it from you. She did some dumb **** - which we're all entitled to, and most of us have done - but she didn't OWN it. And that's where this all went off the rails. You were duped, no doubt about it. I'd be out of there, too, honestly. But NOT because she did some stupid **** before I came along. Solely because she didn't own it, and lied to you (and many many others) about it all.


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## jld

vandason said:


> My wife isn't a fighter, she'll just take whatever is thrown at her.


And that probably explains a lot right there.


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## jld

vandason said:


> I loathe her.


This is very concerning, OP. It makes me worry for her safety with you.


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## sokillme

How timely that this thread shows up when we all have been discussing the very topic about disclosure of your past. :scratchhead:


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## Duguesclin

vandason said:


> @;
> 
> I don’t know where to go from here and this isn’t something I want to talk to friends or family about. Just admitting that is the type of woman I married is embarrassing. In it all I have to think about the kids, hers and ours. I am the only father any of them have known. We have 6 kids between 4 months to 15 years, anything that I do affects them. I don’t want to leave my kids with a bat**** crazy mother, who would probably turn around and get knocked up by a few more strangers.


You have been with her for 8 years. It seemed pretty stable from what I can read. Hasn't she matured? She is probably in a better position now than before.

She deceived you and I think there are good reasons for it from reading your reaction. Hopefully what she has gained in those 8 years with you has really benefited her and will let her have a more normal life.

You have an opportunity to make a difference in her life, the life of her first 3 kids and your 3 kids together. Keep in mind, we live life only once. I understand it hurts right now, but look at what you have now. Are you willing to throw it away just because your pride is hurt?


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## jld

Duguesclin said:


> You have been with her for 8 years. It seemed pretty stable from what I can read. Hasn't she matured? She is probably in a better position now than before.
> 
> She deceived you and I think there are good reasons for it from reading your reaction. Hopefully what she has gained in those 8 years with you has really benefited her and will let her have a more normal life.
> 
> You have an opportunity to make a difference in her life, the life of her first 3 kids and your 3 kids together. Keep in mind, we live life only once. I understand it hurts right now, but look at what you have now.* Are you willing to throw it away just because your pride is hurt?*


Wow. Is that true, OP? Is this just about your pride?


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## sokillme

alexm said:


> Look, us dudes need to get off this BS about women having "lots" of sex (or god forbid, getting pregnant) before marriage. We men have been doing this for eons - but we don't get pregnant, nor do we get reputations, so we get to walk away thinking we're just guys being guys. So don't make this about that.


Not all of us have. If you are the kind of person who didn't sleep with a lot of people then I think you have a right to be pissed if she did and pretended she thought about it the way you did, but really didn't. We don't know what OP thought about that. I do agree though that if you were the kind that did you don't have a right to be pissed if your partner did too. But your perspective is from the idea that all men want to sleep with anyone who is willing. Some of us don't think that way.


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## sokillme

OP how would you say your marriage has been? I do get that this is an incredible betrayal, but do you still love her?


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## Diana7

EleGirl said:


> He said that he met her when she was working at the same place he was working. So, she probably was not on government benefits.
> 
> I’d rather have an answer from the OP instead of getting responses from people are simply guess.


I the UK if you are a single parent or a couple on low income you can get govt help as well even if you are working.


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## Diana7

sokillme said:


> How timely that this thread shows up when we all have been discussing the very topic about disclosure of your past. :scratchhead:


Yes and this is why its so vital that we are honest about such massive issues.


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## notmyrealname4

vandason said:


> *Yesterday I was decluttering and found the box where my wife keeps our important documents such as passports, birth certificates, etc. *
> 
> What she told me:
> *She had two teenage relationships from 12-16 *




Hi vandason,

This is a totally prosaic comment, but make sure really important documents are stored in a metal box or file cabinet; with a lock. The lock improves privacy and security--and the metal protects against fire. I just got the impression that your docs. were being stored in an old shoebox; hope I'm wrong.

Was your wife having intercourse at the age of 12? Yikes, I sure hope her 12-14 years boyfriends were nothing more than kissing and petting. I think intercourse before 15 is damaging; lots of folks will disagree with me, I'm sure. I think kids should be allowed to finish physical development, and focus on school and friendships and sports and hobbies; not the intense emotional after effects and physical responsibilities of having sexual intercourse.


I'm projecting my own experience with habitual liars here; so take that into consideration.

I wouldn't trust your wife as far as I could throw her. Hope I'm wrong. And you're not me, of course. I've had the experience with close family members of having dreadfully serious lies told to me about my own parentage; and then realize that everything told to me my whole life, was embellishment upon those initial lies.

So, I would NEVER trust someone like this.


God, do I feel bad for those kids. Especially the first 3 who don't have the faintest ****ing idea who their dad is. Unless you experience this void in your life folks, you can't understand the full impact it has on your sense of belonging and identity.


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## TAM2013

jld said:


> This is very concerning, OP. It makes me worry for her safety with you.


I'm more concerned for OP's safety after him learning this. Are there no depths a woman can sink to and still people leap to their defense? The dude's done nothing wrong except been lied to and try to give 3 kids that weren't his a better life. And now he's going to harm her in some way? Talk about kicking a man while he's down. Staggering.

This woman has implemented the female mating strategy brutally. And now for the sake of those 6 beautiful innocent kids, he's got to go through hell FOR BEING DECENT. Naive, but DECENT.

Makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. You have my full support, vandason. And don't you let ANYONE tell you your feelings are not valid while they rally round protecting what they SEE as vulnerable should you have the 'audacity' to raise your voice a little.

Chin up, brother.


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## Truthseeker1

Duguesclin said:


> She deceived you and I think there are good reasons for it from reading your reaction. Hopefully what she has gained in those 8 years with you has really benefited her and will let her have a more normal life.


I have to disagree here..there is never a good reason to lie to a person to get them to marry you. If the person you are interested in cant accept you then move on but dont lie to get what you want. 



Diana7 said:


> Yes and this is why its so vital that we are honest about such massive issues.


QFT


----------



## SunCMars

Diana7 said:


> Yes she was a very very irresponsible person having sex with more than 20 men, especially with no protection. Its hard to see what she was thinking, why did she want 3 children with 3 different dads? Also there was the very high risk of Stds as well. She will be lucky if she escaped those completely. Also she didn't come clean and you had to find out yourself. Yes she did marry you under false pretenses, there is no doubt about that.
> 
> However, I think of the children, her three who are innocent in all this(and who BTW need to be told the truth as they may well find out later), and the three you have together. Thats a lot of young lives that will be devastated if you just pack up and leave. Aren't they worth at least trying for? With time and MC etc I am sure that this CAN be worked though. Of course you are angry, anyone would be, but given time you will calm down and be able to think more rationally. As a dad you have responsibilities and her first 3 children have already been messed up enough.
> 
> You may need to stay away from her for a few days/weeks till you feel calmer,but please see the children, even if you have to take them out to eat or something.


This would have been my answer.

Children are precious and are innocent players in this...this, circus. 

Poop happens. Shake your head, chuckle under your breathe and get past this. What else can you do?

Life is great!


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## jld

Truthseeker1 said:


> I have to disagree here..there is never a good reason to lie to a person to get them to marry you.


I agree. Lies of commission or omission are likely to come back to bite you, like it did the OP's wife.

Be transparent in serious dating and let the chips fall where they may. It weeds out incompatible partners.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## vandason

When I said milk the system I meant government money. She wasn't working much until she finished her degree. It took her 10 years to get a 5 year degree. She finished her degree the year we met. She was on student loans and bursaries at the time and was given a lot more than someone without children. A lot of her loans were forgiven. Compared to responsible people who don't receive the same handouts. 

She has been a good wife. I wouldn't have married her if she wasn't. She comes off as almost a perfect wife. Of course we have some problems sometimes but overall we've been happy. She's kind of a doormat, whatever I say goes even though I want her to voice her opinion and do what she wants to. But, a good wife wouldn't lie about something like this. thought she was trustworthy but she has proved otherwise. 

She is a lot better than I am at managing our schedule with 6 kids when they all have places to be. Our kids were planned, there were no surprises. She is fine with money, she isn't a big spender. The only things she buys are things for the kids (needed or not). We don't have financial problems. She has no male friends, almost never goes out with friends. 

On the outside she comes off as a great mother. She is always doing things with the kids and fully engaged with them, she takes good care of them, she is far better at managing all the **** than I am, she rarely yells, she loves being a mother, our kids are good kids. But there is still the issue of, she is lying to her 3 about their parentage and history. A good mother wouldn't do that. A good mother wouldn't rip their father's away from them. 

Usually I don't differentiate between her kids and our kids. I'm not super close with her two oldest, more with the youngest. All of them call me dad, though, and did that on their own. In the past we talked about me adopting her three. She basically said no because it would be too difficult to have their father removed from the birth certificates. Which was a massive lie because legally none of them have a father. She didn't want to come clean and in return didn't allow them to legally have a father. 

None of their fathers have ever paid a cent of child support, seeing as they are not legally the fathers and 2/3 don't know they are fathers. She told me that she never tried to go for child support, for any of them. She says she knows who fathered each, though I'm not sure if I believe that. She said she didn't go for child support because she didn't think it was fair, and didn't think those men would be a good influence for the kids. 

Our kids are worth trying, but I don't know if she is. I feel like it's rewarding her ****ty behaviour. Staying for the kids is never a good idea. The first thing I thought when I woke up this morning was that I don't want to be married to her. 

Fighting for full custody is something that I have been thinking about. The system is so broken that even with her history I doubt I'd get more than 50/50. Her kids are 12, 13, 15. Ours are 4, 1 and an infant. Legally I have no right to the older kids, they are old enough to make a decision - maybe. 

I am going to take some time away from my wife. I don't know how long. I don't think she deserves to know how long. She did this to herself. I do want to talk to our kids (at least the oldest 4) and see them, I just don't want to see my wife at all. 

I don't particularly care how many men she slept with - whatever. It's that she lied about it. I didn't ever ask her "number", but she still managed to lie. We'd have conversations about how she felt like she was inexperienced because she had only been with 3 men, only 1 as an adult. But she wasn't inexperienced, those conversations were a lie. All the times we tried different things in the bedroom and she acted inexperienced, probably a lie. She sold herself as a person who thought sex was special and shouldn't be handed out to anyone, lie. And yes, she was 12-13 the first time she had sex. 

It's that she lied and was insanely irresponsible with human lives. That she intentionally got pregnant the first time because, in her words, she had a strong urge to have a baby after having an unplanned miscarriage. She lied to the man she was with and got knocked up. Then she sought out other men to have unprotected sex with and get pregnant two more times. Then didn't even bother to tell them she was pregnant. I would be pissed and hurt if I had a child out there that was taken from me and raised believing I wanted nothing to do with it. This has nothing to do with pride. 

As pissed as I am at my wife, no I'm not going to ****ing beat her or whatever was implied by "jld". A man can be angry without laying a hand on his wife, or anyone else.


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## Truthseeker1

TheTruthHurts said:


> Thank you for saying this. I'm really tired of people throwing out the "us men are all whoring around so we should stop having a double standard" bs. No - many of us weren't and chose not to associate (perhaps other than as friends) with those who did this.
> 
> I think it's time to do the opposite and not try to hide our values and judgements where it has to do with character.
> 
> I'm a pretty liberal minded guy and don't really care what anyone does in their own sphere - but don't try to drag me into your personal hedonism especially by lying about it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree 110%...everyone has their set of values and dealbreakers and if a person has not been promiscuous and wants a spouse who has lived by the same values there is NOTHING wrong with that and these people should not be vilified. We tend to harshly judge those who want a spouse who has had a similar sexual history to their own.


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## jld

Glad to hear it, OP. When a person says he "loathes" his wife, especially after a big surprise like this one, I do worry about her safety with him.

How is your wife reacting to all this, btw?


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## anchorwatch

You both are in need counseling, whichever way you go. Seriously. You have to be the adult here, your family depends upon it.


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## vandason

Hate didn't seem strong enough. I want to say that I don't care how my wife feels/is reacting. I care because it's affecting our children. She is more upset than I have ever seen her. She has called dozens of times and filled my voicemail, I haven't listened to them. All I care about is our kids, mostly the 4 oldest because they are aware of what is going on (me not being there, us fighting). Our 4 year old is old enough to know I'm not there, but won't totally understand it. The 3 oldest will fully understand that we are fighting. The oldest, who is 15, texted me a couple times. He's more upset that his mom and siblings are upset. That is what I care about, not my wife being sorry she got caught. They are who I want to care for.


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## Truthseeker1

anchorwatch said:


> You both are in need counseling, whichever way you go. Seriously. You have to be the adult here, your family depends upon it.


Definitely those 6 kids need the OP..


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## TAM2013

Duguesclin said:


> She deceived you and I think there are good reasons for it from reading your reaction. Are you willing to throw it away just because your pride is hurt?


So because he has standards and moral fiber, it's HIS fault she deceived him and she was justified in doing so? Good grief. If her moral fiber wasn't mulch, they wouldn't even be here. And WTF has pride got to do with it? He'll be 'jealous' next? Holy sh!t.



TheTruthHurts said:


> Sorry but this is God awful, paternalistic, and condescending. This is advice for a stepfather to stay in the life of a troubled young adult who is involved in drugs or prostitution. Then you can cite how the stepfathers involvement could make a difference in the life of a child or young adult.
> 
> Putting OP's W in that camp - as a child in need of a fathers support and guidance is the perfect advice to f*** up someone's life and encourage them to become a lifelong martyr.
> 
> Wow you hit that out of the park.
> 
> Oh and I didn't want to bring this up yet, but get a DNA test on those kids of "yours".


Bang on.



Truthseeker1 said:


> Agree 110%...everyone has their set of values and dealbreakers and if a person has not been promiscuous and wants a spouse who has lived by the same values there is NOTHING wrong with that and these people should not be vilified. We tend to harshly judge those who want a spouse who has had a similar sexual history to their own.


Yes. Shaming men who have standards is just a poor decision defense mechanism.


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## jld

vandason said:


> Hate didn't seem strong enough. I want to say that I don't care how my wife feels/is reacting. I care because it's affecting our children. She is more upset than I have ever seen her. She has called dozens of times and filled my voicemail, I haven't listened to them. All I care about is our kids, mostly the 4 oldest because they are aware of what is going on (me not being there, us fighting). Our 4 year old is old enough to know I'm not there, but won't totally understand it. The 3 oldest will fully understand that we are fighting. The oldest, who is 15, texted me a couple times. He's more upset that his mom and siblings are upset. That is what I care about, not my wife being sorry she got caught. They are who I want to care for.


Have you ever heard the saying, _"The best thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother"_?


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## farsidejunky

Vandason, she sounds like a great wife to you and a great mom to your kids prior to this revelation.

I want to pose a theory to you, and take it for what it is worth. I think she was so desperate to be a mother and wife that she took unhealthy measures to become so. This does not make it better, but simply may give you some insight into why.

I think it is important to not paint her intentions in this as somehow nefarious. 

She certainly needs counseling. If you consider continuing in this marriage, I would insist upon it.

I would encourage you to carefully consider before you decide to throw this marriage away. She sounds like she loves to serve you, and if you spend enough time on this site, you will realize that this is rare.

That said, you must insist on her coming clean about everything. Give her one opportunity to save the marriage. Insist that any future lies will be grounds for you to end it.

I do agree with you taking some time away. However, You need to communicate to her the length of time. Don't prop up her poor behavior as justification for you to behave in a lousy manner yourself. Be the better person in this situation.

Keep posting. There's going to be plenty to deal with emotionally as this continues.


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## Graywolf2

vandason said:


> My wife isn't a fighter, she'll just take whatever is thrown at her.
> 
> She comes off as almost a perfect wife.
> 
> She told me that she never tried to go for child support, for any of them.
> 
> And yes, she was 12-13 the first time she had sex.


Your wife sounds like she has always been very passive and took the path of least resistance.


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## SunCMars

This I know.

If you stick around and let this information fade away, she will go from being a good wife, TO A WONDERFUL WIFE. 

She will be scared crapless that you will one day walk away. 

This sounds like a good deal to me. 

On the multiple men sex thing...."their thing" does not wear out.
On the multiple father thing....you are the father, NOW.

Let it go. You are now King in your Castle....believe me.


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## Taxman

SunCMars said:


> Let it go. You are now King in your Castle....believe me.


Exactly the point, that woman that had kids with different guys does not exist anymore. She's been replaced by your wife, and by your own accounts, shes been pretty good. And the kids: YOU ARE THE DAD. 

Process this. Don't blow up a good thing because she was once young and foolish. Has she stepped out on you? Nope! Has she betrayed you? Don't call this betrayal. Nope. So, she's been good and true. Yup. Isn't that saying something? The past is the past. This was before you were in her life. Don't you have a few skeletons that you'd like never to see the light of day?


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## alexm

TheTruthHurts said:


> Thank you for saying this. I'm really tired of people throwing out the "us men are all whoring around so we should stop having a double standard" bs. No - many of us weren't and chose not to associate (perhaps other than as friends) with those who did this.
> 
> I think it's time to do the opposite and not try to hide our values and judgements where it has to do with character.
> 
> I'm a pretty liberal minded guy and don't really care what anyone does in their own sphere - but don't try to drag me into your personal hedonism especially by lying about it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gimme a break guys. I didn't say that.

What I'm saying is that it's the least of his issues, yet it's being lumped in with the other, _actual_ horrible things she's done.

For the record, I didn't ***** around. I've been with a minimal number of women in my life. Probably laughably low by some standards.

What I did say, gentlemen, is that if one "*****s around", they should own it. For ME, it's not something that would stop me from loving someone. Lying about it would be.


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## farsidejunky

TheTruthHurts said:


> Ugh I just threw up in my mouth a little. How do you know any of these hypotheses you are posting? Pure conjecture. For all we know these aren't his kids and she's been stepping out every day. What is the past and what is the present? Who knows because she's lied every day for years. Wow
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Speaking only as a poster:

Both his AND your opinion are conjecture, as is mine, his, hers, and theirs. That means your opinion is exactly as speculative as his, and means just as much as all of ours: jack squat.

So why exactly do you see the need to not just disagree, but do so in a manner which asserts your position as somehow superior by demeaning his? That is pretty lousy. 

One can disagree without being disagreeable.


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## jld

farsidejunky said:


> Speaking only as a poster:
> 
> Both his AND your opinion are conjecture, as is mine, his, hers, and theirs. That means your opinion is exactly as speculative as his, and means just as much as all of ours: jack squat.
> 
> So why exactly do you see the need to not just disagree, but do so in a manner which asserts your position as somehow superior by demeaning his? That is pretty lousy.
> 
> *One can disagree without being disagreeable.*


I seem to recall a very nice man, and a very good president, saying the very same thing . . .


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## jld

SunCMars said:


> This I know.
> 
> If you stick around and let this information fade away, she will go from being a good wife, TO A WONDERFUL WIFE.
> 
> She will be scared crapless that you will one day walk away.
> 
> This sounds like a good deal to me.
> 
> On the multiple men sex thing...."their thing" does not wear out.
> On the multiple father thing....you are the father, NOW.
> 
> Let it go. You are now King in your Castle....believe me.


I agree she will be terrified. Which will feed even more into her low self-esteem and subsequent doormat behavior.

Just not sure this is a healthy outcome for her.


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## anchorwatch

Hey, fj. Some believe the way to have the biggest house on the block, is to knock down all the others.


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## jld

Divorce might actually be a healthier outcome for your wife, OP. Everyone would know why you divorced her, and she would surely be forced to confront whatever feelings, likely of shame, motivated her hiding of the truth from you.

I think her embracing her past could help her work on her self esteem issues and cure that doormat syndrome that really is not healthy for anyone. In that way she could develop the courage to be able to stand up to her next man and tell him the truth right away about her past, and let him walk if he is uncomfortable with it.


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## jld

anchorwatch said:


> Hey, fj. Some believe the way to have the biggest house on the block, is to knock down all the others.


I hear anger in that poster. MEM says that when people are angry, it is usually due to fear or pain.


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## Vinnydee

I never asked anyone about their past sex life. If they want to tell me, they will tell me. She is with me now and that is all that matters. I had an ex fiancee with no past as she was a virgin and a girlfriend with a very full past. They both cheated so it does not matter. I only asked m y wife about her past this year in our 44th year of marriage. She really did not want to say and did not want to hear mine. Maybe if I had known her past when I met her, we would never have married. I would have missed out on the best thing in my life. I had sex with 30 women, some in orgies, before I met my wife. I did not tell her and she did not ask. Our pasts do not matter; the future does.


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## Trojan John

Vinnydee said:


> Our pasts do not matter; the future does.


I couldn't disagree more. I had a girlfriend whose sexual history was indicative of a real psychosis. Had I known, I would not have invested a very tumultuous year with her. Our pasts shape us into the people we are today.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## crocus

If her family or the kids didn't know either, telling you, OP, way back then, would have been a bit bigger. 
But I don't get the fact that she said she did tell other guys she was dating...and it scared them off.
So after all these years no one ever found out?? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss

jld said:


> Have you ever heard the saying, _"The best thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother"_?


Loving someone and being utterly angry at a poor decision can happen at the same time.


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## Edmund

If all of this stuff happened before marriage and her only crime was being dishonest about the kids fathers, then OP reaction is way over the top on this. She probably expected this reaction and that is why she lied. He should forgive her for things that happened, and the understandable lies, if he loved her. But he does not love her. She will be better off if he divorces her and gets his angry judgment out of her and the kids life. Hope he can find that perfect person who never made any mistakes.


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## NoChoice

Vinnydee said:


> I never asked anyone about their past sex life. If they want to tell me, they will tell me. She is with me now and that is all that matters. I had an ex fiancee with no past as she was a virgin and a girlfriend with a very full past. They both cheated so it does not matter. I only asked m y wife about her past this year in our 44th year of marriage. She really did not want to say and did not want to hear mine. Maybe if I had known her past when I met her, we would never have married. I would have missed out on the best thing in my life. I had sex with 30 women, some in orgies, before I met my wife. I did not tell her and she did not ask. Our pasts do not matter; the future does.





Trojan John said:


> I couldn't disagree more. I had a girlfriend whose sexual history was indicative of a real psychosis. Had I known, I would not have invested a very tumultuous year with her. Our pasts shape us into the people we are today.


OP,
It is true that a person's past does indeed shape their future and there are two possibilities that can occur. The past can be that of an immature, unprepared individual who makes grave errors, recognizes the wrong and strives to become a better person. 

The other path is indicative of someone incapable of growth whose past is a precursor of their future in that they are incapable of change and are destined to relive that past throughout their life. In which category do you consider your wife?

We on this forum do not know her well enough to make that determination but from the very limited amount that you have posted about her she seems to fall into the former and not the latter. You have described her as a person who loves to be a mother, a caring wife who seems to get pleasure in serving you and, this instance excepted, a person worthy of trust. You also indicated that you and she were quite happy.

If she indeed falls into the latter category then you would be well served to heed the warning that her past demands and D as soon as possible. If, on the other hand, you believe that she is more aligned with the former category then it is true that her past does not really matter except in how it has served to make her the person she is today.

This does not excuse her deception but allow me to ask you this. You indicated that she has "run off" several suitors by disclosing the truth to them. You also indicated that you would have been included in that number had you been informed prior to marriage. Is it a reasonable possibility that she was enamored with you to the point that the fear of running you off so overpowered her that it clouded her judgment?

I know a couple of people who have served time in jail and who now are reformed members of society. One in particular has been unable to find meaningful employment and had communicated to me that he had falsified an employment application in the hopes that it would not be discovered and he would get the job. He really wants nothing more than to be gainfully employed and live a "normal" life. Yes he made a mistake and yes he paid the price but he still must pay further even in light of the fact that he is an reformed individual.

He indicated to me that he knew it was wrong to lie on his application but that he just wants so badly to fit in and be normal that he was willing to compromise his integrity. How do we judge him? How do we judge her?

The bottom line is that you are obviously a man of conscience and integrity and her deception has caused you to view her in a different light but is your disdain a result of her past or her lie? You say that is her lie that has you so distraught but is it that or is it the life she has led that causes your loath? You indicated that the number of men she has had was not a factor to you but you also said that if she had been truthful with you in the beginning that you would not have married her.

If her past is that which was necessary to form the person that is now your wife then who would she be without it? It is conceivable that you may very well find a new wife that has not been or done what your now wife has. many on this board have wives that have had few to one partner(s) in their past but sadly, they had more after marriage and that proved problematic.

My point is that if you were happy with the woman you married in almost every way then perhaps it was a necessary path to the person she is today. Address the lying and deceit but be careful not to discard something valuable. A diamond began its journey as a lump of coal.


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## phillybeffandswiss

You need to calm down, but ignore all of the blame shifting and minimization of your feelings including loving your wife. Calm down, have a long talk and then settle things. This isn't about pride, it is about deception and don't let anyone emasculate and use logical fallacies to shift the argument. It is okay to be angry at this huge deception and it doesn't mean you want someone perfect.

Remember, perfection and honesty are not synonyms.


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## Wolfman1968

Duguesclin said:


> You have been with her for 8 years. It seemed pretty stable from what I can read. Hasn't she matured? She is probably in a better position now than before.
> 
> *She deceived you and I think there are good reasons for it from reading your reaction*. Hopefully what she has gained in those 8 years with you has really benefited her and will let her have a more normal life.
> 
> You have an opportunity to make a difference in her life, the life of her first 3 kids and your 3 kids together. Keep in mind, we live life only once. I understand it hurts right now, but look at what you have now. Are you willing to throw it away just because your pride is hurt?



BS.

There is NEVER a good reason to deceive someone into marriage. OP states he wouldn't marry her if he knew, so she deceived him. If you think that's a "good reason" you're beyond help.

It's blatant fraud.


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## Thor

vandason said:


> She has been a good wife. I wouldn't have married her if she wasn't. She comes off as almost a perfect wife. Of course we have some problems sometimes but overall we've been happy.
> .
> .
> .
> On the outside she comes off as a great mother. She is always doing things with the kids and fully engaged with them, she takes good care of them, she is far better at managing all the **** than I am, she rarely yells, she loves being a mother, our kids are good kids. But there is still the issue of, she is lying to her 3 about their parentage and history. A good mother wouldn't do that. A good mother wouldn't rip their father's away from them.
> .
> .
> .
> Our kids are worth trying, but I don't know if she is. I feel like it's rewarding her ****ty behaviour. Staying for the kids is never a good idea. The first thing I thought when I woke up this morning was that I don't want to be married to her.
> .
> .
> .
> I am going to take some time away from my wife. I don't know how long. I don't think she deserves to know how long. She did this to herself. I do want to talk to our kids (at least the oldest 4) and see them, I just don't want to see my wife at all.


Vandason, sorry you're here with this mess.

I am very pro-marriage and pro-family. And, I've been in a somewhat similar but not as extreme a situation with being lied to about my ex-wife's past. One big difference is that mine was not a good wife in many ways, whereas you describe your wife as being completely satisfactory until you learned of her major lies about her past.

I think there is a good chance for you to come through this with a good, strong, marriage. But, it will take both of you working hard to get there. You can't just process this data yourself and somehow "get over it" to magically have a great marriage. To get to a good outcome you will need good marriage counseling, and she should get some individual counseling. I think you may benefit from a bit of IC along the way, too.

No doubt this is a betrayal, just like an affair is a betrayal. It needs to be processed as a betrayal for you to recover from it. She has to show remorse, she has to make amends, and she should ask for your forgiveness. You need to observe her being genuinely remorseful and working hard at figuring out why she did this (the lies and deceptions moreso than the promiscuity and intentionally getting pregnant while single). I suggest you both read the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. While this was not an affair, the basic principles still apply.

I think this is how you start the process. You cannot decide today or even next week whether to stay. It is a process. Over the span of several months you will get a calmer certainty on which way you want to go. There is no rush to decide one way or another.

When I discovered some of the lies about my ex-W's past, literally I felt as if there were no floor underneath me. The foundation of my belief system about her was completely destroyed. It takes time to come to grips with the new reality and to put it into perspective with the totality of the situation.

Having said all that, I would offer the following:

The longer you wait to divorce the worse it gets for you. Alimony especially, but also potentially college expenses, medical expenses, etc. The idea of waiting another 15 years until the kids are out of the house is a really bad strategy. If the marriage becomes unacceptable to you, eject then not years later.

Set a clear boundary with her about lies, deceptions, omissions, or other un-truths. The one I set was anything else I learned about from other than her would result in immediate divorce. I told her whatever was out there we could deal with as long as it was known to me. While there was no guarantee of not divorcing, I told her I wanted to be married to her and to work things out, so now was her chance to tell me anything and everything. Furthermore, any future lies or deceptions would also be grounds for immediate divorce. This was a carrot-stick approach.

Of course my wife continued with her paradigm of lies and deceptions about both old and new. This is a tricky thing for you, being aware but not paranoid of what your wife does in the future. Since you have no record of her committing deceptions during your marriage aside from concealing her past, I think you are on fairly safe ground. With time you will learn there are no more crazy lies or surprises out there. The book "After the Affair" deals with this in terms of Trickle Truth. The cheater, or in this case your untruthful wife, may try to ease the shock by not revealing all. Hopefully there is nothing more hidden still. As you experience her being honest with you going forward you will learn to be calm and to trust her again.

Good luck.


----------



## Thor

The truth shall set you free. This is also true of your wife. Now that the truth is out, she will have a heavy weight lifted from her. I am certain the lies have impacted her ability to be otherwise attain deep emotional intimacy. If you can work through this with her, you may find your marriage much better and more fulfilling. This is what I hope for both of you.

Given your descriptions of her in all other ways, I don't think you are dealing with a fundamentally dishonest or conniving wife. It sounds like she is one of those people who indeed has learned from her younger mistakes. If she proves to be otherwise, I'll be loudly banging the drum for you to divorce her. But I really believe you have every chance of turning this around.

I suggest you contact her eldest child and reassure him.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Edmund said:


> If all of this stuff happened before marriage and her only crime was being dishonest about the kids fathers, then OP reaction is way over the top on this. She probably expected this reaction and that is why she lied. He should forgive her for things that happened, and the understandable lies, if he loved her. But he does not love her. She will be better off if he divorces her and gets his angry judgment out of her and the kids life. Hope he can find that perfect person who never made any mistakes.


This is nothing but blame shifting. HE is the victim of deceit, NOT her. 

HE was entitled to decide what type of person he wanted to marry and with what kind of background, and his wife robbed him of that choice through fraud and deceit. 
It's not just that they had different fathers---the WAY she went out to INTENTIONALLY get pregnant reflects a manipulative, self-centered personality.
It's his right not to get involved with that, and she hoodwinked him.

Don't soft peddle what she did and try to make him out like a monster for "judgement" who demands a "perfect" person. There's a big gap between a "perfect" and a sociopath.

You play that "if he loved her" game....but if SHE loved HIM she would have been up front all along. What about that? Who's really the one lacking in love here?
How does he know she really loves him after all, if she wouldn't tell him the truth? How does he know that he hasn't really just become a convenient answer to her problems? A meal ticket and an income source?
Because, after all, SHE is the one with the track record of manipulating men for her own purposes.

So maybe HE will be better off he divorces her and gets a manipulator out of his life.
It's his decision. And a decision he should be able to make WITHOUT the confusion of fraudulent dishonesty.


----------



## jld

If she loved *herself,* she would have been upfront with him right away.

What healthy person would want to be married to someone who does not know and love who they really are?


----------



## jld

Wolfman1968 said:


> It's blatant fraud.


Hmm.

A "perfect" wife who does whatever he wants, no argument. 3 beautiful children of his own lovingly cared for by her. 3 other children he also seems to love who, of their own spirit, call him Dad.

Pretty rewarding fraud, if you ask me.


----------



## sokillme

Wolfman1968 said:


> This is nothing but blame shifting. HE is the victim of deceit, NOT her.


Yep it's fraud plain and simple.


----------



## sokillme

If it was me I would get a polygraph and would at least try since she has been a good wife since they were married. However if you realize that you have just lost all respect for her (which under the circumstances, meaning mostly the lying, is understandable) then it's probably better for both of you that you move on.


----------



## Wolfman1968

jld said:


> If she loved *herself,* she would have been upfront with him right away.
> 
> What healthy person would want to be married to someone who does not know and love who they really are?



A deceitful, narcissistic person could. And still love themselves. 

Look at all the serial killers, etc. who have hidden things from their spouses. That's deceit. They lied because they were narcissistic.
I'm not calling the OP's wife a serial killer, I'm just pointing out the logical fallacy in your statement that her lying means she didn't love herself. 
Lots of people who love themselves can be deceitful.


----------



## jld

Wolfman1968 said:


> A deceitful, narcissistic person could. And still love themselves.
> 
> Look at all the serial killers, etc. who have hidden things from their spouses. That's deceit. They lied because they were narcissistic.
> I'm not calling the OP's wife a serial killer, I'm just pointing out the logical fallacy in your statement that her lying means she didn't love herself.
> Lots of people who love themselves can be deceitful.


I don't think that is *love*, Wolfman. 

And I certainly do not think genuine love has anything to do with narcissism.


----------



## Wolfman1968

jld said:


> Hmm.
> 
> A "perfect" wife who does whatever he wants, no argument. 3 beautiful children of his own lovingly cared for by her. 3 other children he also seems to love who, of their own spirit, call him Dad.
> 
> Pretty rewarding fraud, if you ask me.


She DIDN'T do everything he wanted. That's enough right there.

She wasn't honest with him.

She wouldn't let him adopt the older kids.

You're pretty selective in "does whatever he wants, no argument". I don't buy your perspective.


----------



## jld

Wolfman1968 said:


> She DIDN'T do everything he wanted. That's enough right there.
> 
> She wasn't honest with him.
> 
> She wouldn't let him adopt the older kids.
> 
> You're pretty selective in "does whatever he wants, no argument". I don't buy your perspective.


According to him: _"She comes off as almost a perfect wife. Of course we have some problems sometimes but overall we've been happy. She's kind of a doormat, whatever I say goes even though I want her to voice her opinion and do what she wants to."_


----------



## Edmund

Wolfman1968 said:


> This is nothing but blame shifting. HE is the victim of deceit, NOT her.
> 
> HE was entitled to decide what type of person he wanted to marry and with what kind of background, and his wife robbed him of that choice through fraud and deceit.
> It's not just that they had different fathers---the WAY she went out to INTENTIONALLY get pregnant reflects a manipulative, self-centered personality.
> It's his right not to get involved with that, and she hoodwinked him.
> 
> Don't soft peddle what she did and try to make him out like a monster for "judgement" who demands a "perfect" person. There's a big gap between a "perfect" and a sociopath.
> 
> You play that "if he loved her" game....but if SHE loved HIM she would have been up front all along. What about that? Who's really the one lacking in love here?
> How does he know she really loves him after all, if she wouldn't tell him the truth? How does he know that he hasn't really just become a convenient answer to her problems? A meal ticket and an income source?
> Because, after all, SHE is the one with the track record of manipulating men for her own purposes.
> 
> So maybe HE will be better off he divorces her and gets a manipulator out of his life.
> It's his decision. And a decision he should be able to make WITHOUT the confusion of fraudulent dishonesty.


Hey Wolf,
I gave my honest opinion which I am entitled to do here, as are you. What his wife did is nothing compared to some of the threads on this forum where the wife has a secret affair during the marriage, lies about it, denies it, tricks husband into buying a new house, car, etc. then a few weeks later files for divorce because she needs, space, isn't sure she wants to be married, LYBNILWY, other BS when all she wants is to move her AP into her husbands house and get rid of husband. I do think, with her background of various lovers / fathers, six children, she will need to find a man with a very big and forgiving heart, and it is not OP. It will not be easy to find a man like this. I think she should get 100% custody because he states that not only does he not love her as I said in my previous reply, not only does he hate her, he LOATHES her. This means he will half loathe his own three children as well because they are half her. It is really a bad situation for her, too.
BTW, judging from your avatar, I would say your own anger may be affecting your physical appearance. Maybe you should try being less angry at me for having an opinion. I see there are several others that agree with my assessment. Let OP make up his own mind which of us is right.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


----------



## vandason

I don't want my wife to be scared ****less that I'll walk out and become more of a doormat because of it. Right now, before this came out, she would do anything that I ask of her. I mean, anything. Whether she wanted to or not. She always said that she liked doing things for me but sometimes you have to wonder why. 

I don't look at her the same way anymore and I don't know if that can be overcome. I don't like her and I don't respect her. I don't know if I can get that back or trust her when she says that is the only lie she has said. That isn't a small lie about breaking a toaster, it is a massive lie that she has sucked many people into. I am not the first man she has lied to and deceived. 

When I look at her now or think about her, I don't think that she's my wife who I love. I think some pretty terrible things about her that I probably shouldn't post here. I definitely do not see her as the kind, caring, loving, sweet wife anymore. 

If she had really grown and matured from that, would she not have come clean to me? Her family? The kids father's? The kids? Is she sorry that she did it, or sorry she got caught? 

I tried to talk to her tonight and lasted about 10 minutes before I was done. If right now there is no part of me that wants to take her back, will there ever be? Right now, I care about our kids and that's it. They are the most important thing, all 6.


----------



## Satya

vandason said:


> I don't want my wife to be scared ****less that I'll walk out and become more of a doormat because of it. Right now, before this came out, she would do anything that I ask of her. I mean, anything. Whether she wanted to or not. She always said that she liked doing things for me but sometimes you have to wonder why.
> 
> I don't look at her the same way anymore and I don't know if that can be overcome. I don't like her and I don't respect her. I don't know if I can get that back or trust her when she says that is the only lie she has said. That isn't a small lie about breaking a toaster, it is a massive lie that she has sucked many people into. I am not the first man she has lied to and deceived.
> 
> When I look at her now or think about her, I don't think that she's my wife who I love. I think some pretty terrible things about her that I probably shouldn't post here. I definitely do not see her as the kind, caring, loving, sweet wife anymore.
> 
> If she had really grown and matured from that, would she not have come clean to me? Her family? The kids father's? The kids? Is she sorry that she did it, or sorry she got caught?
> 
> I tried to talk to her tonight and lasted about 10 minutes before I was done. If right now there is no part of me that wants to take her back, will there ever be? Right now, I care about our kids and that's it. They are the most important thing, all 6.


Just get a lawyer and start the D process. Tell your wife in basic terms what you're going to do so she's not blindsided. It'll take time and if during that time your mind changes, you can drop the process wherever it is. 

But doing nothing but avoiding her is just going to make you seethe and resent her more, make your (younger) kids wonder when you're coming back, and honestly none of that is going to help anyone involved. Take the anger and channel it into action.


----------



## Thor

vandason said:


> When I look at her now or think about her, I don't think that she's my wife who I love. I think some pretty terrible things about her that I probably shouldn't post here. I definitely do not see her as the kind, caring, loving, sweet wife anymore.
> 
> If she had really grown and matured from that, would she not have come clean to me? Her family? The kids father's? The kids? Is she sorry that she did it, or sorry she got caught?
> 
> I tried to talk to her tonight and lasted about 10 minutes before I was done. If right now there is no part of me that wants to take her back, will there ever be? Right now, I care about our kids and that's it. They are the most important thing, all 6.


You have every right to feel the way you do right now. I think you would benefit from talking to a real counselor in person, too. Your work should provide EAP, Employee Assistance Program. It is there for exactly this kind of crisis. It is free to you, and 100% confidential. Nobody will know you went. By law the therapist cannot divulge to your employer your name or anything about your visits. Or, you could find a therapist and pay out of pocket or use your insurance to pay for it.

There's no doubt you will forever see her differently than you did before, but there are some powerful positive factors which are in favor of a good outcome. Let me explain.

Before you met your wife, her behavior was abnormal, dysfunctional, harmful to her, harmful to her children, and harmful to the men. She was irresponsible and selfish. _Yet everything you have observed of her as a mother and wife could not be described that way._ She has been loving, giving, and attentive. She has been a good mother and a good wife. This has been consistent behavior for the 8 years you have known her. You said in your opening paragraph in the first post that you have no complaints about her as mother or wife.

Everything about her life in the distant past was a train wreck in progress. Yet nothing has been a train wreck in all the time you have known her. She seems to be the rare person who recognizes where they are headed and makes very real changes. Iow, she really is not the same person who did all those things in the past.

You said you would not have stayed with her had you known up front about her history. I understand that from my own experiences. You have every right to that position. There's no reason to feel guilty or for anyone to try to shame you for it. We all know the odds of a good marriage to someone living the way she was would be very bad.

It sounds like she had changed her ways well before you met her, because she had 2 other men run off when they learned of her past. She was picking higher quality men, and she was being honest about her past with them. Her behaviors had already changed by this time. I don't think you were some schlub she picked to be her victim while she secretly was still the same dysfunctional irresponsible person. You've seen who she really is for 8 years with you and all the kids.


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## Thor

So here's what I think, but it is just a guess. Your wife had some serious dysfunction in her childhood of some sort. What it was doesn't really matter to you or me, but it did lead her to some very dysfunctional behavior as a teen and young adult. She made some really bad choices because she had a really broken template of what life and relationships are about.

Somehow she was able to recognize that her template or road map was seriously broken. This is what makes her not only unusual but also pretty amazing. I wouldn't say that about her if you had written she was messed up as a mom or wife.

She may still benefit from IC for whatever it was in her childhood, idk. That's a separate topic and really not something you should be concerned with at this time.

None of this excuses her for hiding it from you. It explains it. Academically we can understand how she came to the conclusion she should hide this mess from you and everyone else. I think it is good to try to understand the other person's thought processes.

Your wife probably doesn't quite understand how this has undermined your entire picture of everything. She probably doesn't understand how you are questioning everything, wondering what was ever real. Depending on what her childhood dysfunctions were, she may be unable to understand.

This is why you really need to be in MC immediately. You need a skilled professional to guide both of you through the crisis so that you can figure out where you're going.


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## NoChoice

vandason said:


> I don't want my wife to be scared ****less that I'll walk out and become more of a doormat because of it. Right now, before this came out, she would do anything that I ask of her. I mean, anything. Whether she wanted to or not. She always said that she liked doing things for me but sometimes you have to wonder why.


Then your wants will not be realized. When you leave, it will reinforce in her that her past is indeed an inescapable curse. She will have further proof that the vast majority of men will not want anything to do with her. She will begin to see that her choices in men has been relegated to a very, very select handful of understanding men or the dregs of male society. The former she may realize as nearly impossible to find, especially now with 6 children in tow and the latter is what she hoped to escape from.



vandason said:


> I don't look at her the same way anymore and I don't know if that can be overcome. I don't like her and I don't respect her. I don't know if I can get that back or trust her when she says that is the only lie she has said. That isn't a small lie about breaking a toaster, it is a massive lie that she has sucked many people into. I am not the first man she has lied to and deceived.


But you are the first man she has married, cared for, been a good wife to (by your own admission) and stayed with for 8 years. That flies in the face of her past behavior. May I ask how many times she tried to become pregnant during those two years so that she could "trap" you? Her MO changed, why? It is my opinion that she has learned and matured. Unfortunately, the lesson has come with an enormous price tag, one that overwhelms her.

Also, what do you know of the fathers of the other children? If she was less than stellar in her choosing of males she may have realized that those children would benefit nothing from a relationship with men of their caliber, they obviously did not care enough about her to remain with her even a few months or they would have seen for themselves that she was impregnated.



vandason said:


> When I look at her now or think about her, I don't think that she's my wife who I love. I think some pretty terrible things about her that I probably shouldn't post here. I definitely do not see her as the kind, caring, loving, sweet wife anymore.


However she is that same loving, caring person. A fact that is not visible to you currently. No one is denying that what she did was wrong nor is anyone saying that it is you that should (note "should") forgive, forget and simply move on. What is being said is that she has erred badly, seems to have recognized her shortcomings and has experienced a rather amazing transformation. If you could realize what was involved for a person to fundamentally alter their base personality you may understand how truly rare her new persona is.

I am not telling you to simply forget and move on but rather to consider carefully her motives for this lie. If you believe that her motive was malicious, to "trap" you and continue on in her manquest, then you would be foolish to even consider going back with her. However, based on everything you have posted about her to date, that is simply not the case. That is what I want to be sure you see and realize. Yes, the lie was bad but was it for manipulation and coercion or was her intent to finally put that horrific time behind her and make a new (better) life for herself and her children with a good, quality man. Intent does play a role in making a determination.



vandason said:


> If she had really grown and matured from that, would she not have come clean to me? Her family? The kids father's? The kids? Is she sorry that she did it, or sorry she got caught?


I honestly believe that she is both however, one cannot undo the past. Let me ask you, if she has not matured then how do you explain the fact that she has been with you for 8 years, in a 6 year marriage and behaved as she has? Her behavior prior was exactly opposite of that. What has caused the change in her if not her ability to see and understand how bad her previous actions were? That, my friend, is the definition of maturing. Is she perfect? I do not believe that she is. People often do the wrong thing for what they believe to be the right reason.

Consider this that for perhaps the first time in her life she was truly, genuinely happy. A good man as husband, three beautiful new children, the white picket fence and the whole nine yards. In other words a nearly perfect life. Perhaps the thoughts of her past still haunted her but was she ready to drop a nuclear bomb on that which she loved so much? Would you be?

And it is conceivable that at least part of her decision to continue the lie was her being mindful of her children. How much normalcy did her first three children have in their lives prior to you? I dare say very little. Perhaps part of the lie was to maintain the life she wanted not only for herself but those children as well. Just something to consider.



vandason said:


> I tried to talk to her tonight and lasted about 10 minutes before I was done. If right now there is no part of me that wants to take her back, will there ever be? Right now, I care about our kids and that's it. They are the most important thing, all 6.


As I have said previously it is evident that you are a caring man of conscience. You have been given a lot to process. The woman you knew as wife is still there, just as before, only now with this huge stain on her. She is no doubt terrified that her past, yet again, may cost her dearly. The stain, though ugly and foul, does not have to be permanent. It may never be totally eradicated but it can, with effort from her and acceptance from you, be reduced to near insignificance.

It is of course your choice to make and it may be that you have no choice if your mind cannot accept that she has indeed changed and can be the good wife and mother she has been for the past 6 years. It would be tragic if her past and her poor handling of the truth causes the destruction of your family but it is understandable. All I am saying is to be sure you carefully consider her motives and her behavior for the last 8 years. I wish you strength and wisdom as you contemplate your future.


----------



## SunCMars

The moral to this story is a lonely stinking "morel" sitting on the dark, dank side of some lonely hollow in West Virginia.

Sitting there, alone. Nobody in their right mind would ever consider picking it. 

God, what a shame.

And as Humans are, Humans will be, naked, afraid....and so foolish...

God help us all, and the lady with six children.


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## SunCMars

Oh!

Happy Mother's Day.

Especially to this Mother....ugh, thrice.


----------



## Be smart

Here is what you should think about OP.

For the past 10 Years your Wife was a good Girlfriend,Wife and Mother. 

Right now she is scared and embarrassed about her past. She lived in constant fear of you finding the truth. Will my Husband leave me if he finds the truth,will he laugh... It was not easy for her belive it or not. She is going crazy right now because you left the House. 

She did grow up and matured. She fought for her Family like a good Wife and Mother should. She finished her degree not because she wanted to brag about it,but because she wanted to have a better life for you,Kids and herself. Sure it took 10 Years but she done it. It was not easy with 6 Kids,Husband,Job,housework and what else but she done it. You should be proud of her. Tell her that. Tell her that every single week. 

She almost never fights with you. Maybe she fears the truth will come out so she goes in the submissive mode or she truly belives you will do the right thing for the Family. 

She speaks with respect about you to Family and Friends. 
I can bet most of your Friends are jealous of your Life,right ?

Go back to your House. She is going crazy right now just like your Kids. Give her a nice card,buy some nice present and spend your day with your Family. 
It is Mothers Day my Friend. She needs you there. 

Talk with her and search for a good Therapist. Both of you need it. Your Marriage was/is still perfect. 

Best wishes to you and your Family my Friend. 

Stay strong.


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## wmn1

I am torn on this. I agree with Thetruthhurts, Wolfman and a few others but am stunned that some here point the finger and Vandason. NONE of this is his fault !!!

Vandason, I get the fact that you are angry and you need counseling and need to chill out. I am not normally one who says to take your time to make decisions but in this case, I will.

You are going to be in severe financial pain for a long time if you divorce. If she was the perfect wife, then she still can be. Yes, she lied about her past and that is enormously troublesome. While I am not one who advocates staying for the kids, in this case, if you divorce, you will probably destroy the mother of your kids and yet destroy a woman who thinks you walk on water.

She didn't cheat on you that you know of I assume ? Then this is salvagable IMO but not without work.

You are screwed either way, divorce or staying but I think staying and trying to make it work will do less damage to you and your kids. if she had an affair, I would be the first one to say 'bolt'.

You are the victim here. Completely. However, don't become more of one by screwing yoursself by making a kneee jerk off the cuff reaction which impacts the lives of you and your family


----------



## Duguesclin

Wolfman1968 said:


> BS.
> 
> There is NEVER a good reason to deceive someone into marriage. OP states he wouldn't marry her if he knew, so she deceived him. If you think that's a "good reason" you're beyond help.
> 
> It's blatant fraud.


When you are well fed, stealing food is morally wrong. When you are hungry, stealing food is still morally wrong. But it may be a necessity to stay alive.

Knowing he would not marry her based on her past, I can understand why she deceived him in order to provide a healthier life for her children. 

If you buy a car with 40,000 miles, understanding it was from a single owner, and you discover, when the car is now 150,000 miles, that the car came from New Orleans during Katerina, you are going to be pissed. However, it does not mean you are going to get rid of it, especially if it is running well.

OP has the right to be upset. But whatever decision he makes today should be based on today's data, not something that happened many years ago. He needs to assess the trust he has in her overall. If the broken trust is only the lack of transparency about her past, I would argue it is not wise to divorce, especially when considering the impact on the kids.


----------



## Malaise

Edmund said:


> If all of this stuff happened before marriage and her only crime was being dishonest about the kids fathers, then OP reaction is way over the top on this. * She probably expected this reaction and that is why she lied.* He should forgive her for things that happened, and the understandable lies, if he loved her. But he does not love her. She will be better off if he divorces her and gets his angry judgment out of her and the kids life. Hope he can find that perfect person who never made any mistakes.


"This Reaction" would have been less if she had been honest at the beginning of their relationship. Then he would have just disengaged himself. But now he's heavily invested in emotion, time, and , yes, money. And he probably feels trapped because of the children they have together.

She manipulated him at the onset and he should feel anger at that. The marriage was built on a lie.


----------



## vandason

Part of me wants to start the divorce process, and if I decide to stop it later than so be it. But I know I'm wanting to do that out of anger and because it will hurt and scare my wife. I want her to know the seriousness of this. That isn't the type of man that I am, a man who wants to hurt his wife. Yet, now I am. I know she is extremely upset and scared and I'm not doing anything about it. Today is Mother's Day and no part of me wants to see or contact her. The timing sucks but maybe that's part of the consequence. 

I am tempted to speak to a lawyer, at the very least. I know I need to talk to a counsellor as well, come Monday I can figure that out. Maybe I'll realize I'm being a jackass, or that I really am done. 

I can understanding hiding a past like that and wanting a father for her kids, but that is still manipulation. If she was only interested in me because she thought I'd make a good stand-in father then that's an issue to me. If she actually changed her irresponsible, conniving ways then yes I'm sure that took a lot of work. 

I want to be able to say that she still seems like a conniving ***** and list all these terrible things that she has done directly to me over the years (excluding this). I can't. If she hadn't changed she probably wouldn't be able to hide the behaviour for so long. But there still comes the worry, are our youngest 3 even mine. Which I asked her, in a terrible way. 

We were together for 2 years before we married. She was had an IUD and insisted on condoms as well, sometimes even pulling out with a condom (and her IUD). We didn't have any surprises or scares and she was more freaked out about it than I was. Getting pregnant after we married was a mutual decision and fully planned. She was nervous about getting pregnant and wasn't happy when she had the positive test, she was scared. I remember her saying that she wanted to do it right that time and wanted me to be supportive and involved in the pregnancy and afterwards. 

If what my wife told me was the full truth... The 15 year olds father was the only one she was in a relationship with. They had an unplanned pregnancy and she miscarried. 3 months later she was pregnant, which was intentional. He wanted her to abort she wouldn't and he dumped her (around 16 weeks I think) and never looked back. The 12 and 13 year old's fathers were nothing more than FWB/hookups. One was around for a few months, the other only a couple times. She said they were not good men. She didn't think it was fair to go for child support because she got pregnant on purpose, and didn't want the father's involved. Used them as sperm donors, basically. Still, she decided to make them fathers she doesn't get to decide if they are worthy of being an active parent. Too late now. I want her to let me legally adopt them, divorce or not (done before divorce). She needs to tell me everything.

And yet, I feel ready to sign divorce papers and be done. Maybe I need to sit down and talk with her. Let her explain. Not today with all the kids home.


----------



## SunCMars

EleGirl said:


> It is inappropriate language for TAM.


Believe her, do believe Elle.

She lopped an inch off my already short tongue. I stil **** wit a lisss-pa.

Before THIS I spoke in tongues...now I hum awong.
.........................................................................................................................
And @EleGirl regrets that, dearly....

Oh yeah, I read her mind. Her secret diary has two chapters on this sorrowful act [and others].


----------



## Openminded

No advice. Just wanted to let you know how sorry I am that your world has been turned so completely upside down.


----------



## jld

vandason said:


> Part of me wants to start the divorce process, and if I decide to stop it later than so be it. But I know I'm wanting to do that out of anger and because it will hurt and scare my wife. I want her to know the seriousness of this. That isn't the type of man that I am, a man who wants to hurt his wife. Yet, now I am. I know she is extremely upset and scared and I'm not doing anything about it. Today is Mother's Day and no part of me wants to see or contact her. The timing sucks but maybe that's part of the consequence.
> 
> I am tempted to speak to a lawyer, at the very least. I know I need to talk to a counsellor as well, come Monday I can figure that out. Maybe I'll realize I'm being a jackass, or that I really am done.
> 
> I can understanding hiding a past like that and wanting a father for her kids, but that is still manipulation. If she was only interested in me because she thought I'd make a good stand-in father then that's an issue to me. If she actually changed her irresponsible, conniving ways then yes I'm sure that took a lot of work.
> 
> I want to be able to say that she still seems like a conniving ***** and list all these terrible things that she has done directly to me over the years (excluding this). I can't. If she hadn't changed she probably wouldn't be able to hide the behaviour for so long. But there still comes the worry, are our youngest 3 even mine. Which I asked her, in a terrible way.
> 
> We were together for 2 years before we married. She was had an IUD and insisted on condoms as well, sometimes even pulling out with a condom (and her IUD). We didn't have any surprises or scares and she was more freaked out about it than I was. Getting pregnant after we married was a mutual decision and fully planned. She was nervous about getting pregnant and wasn't happy when she had the positive test, she was scared. I remember her saying that she wanted to do it right that time and wanted me to be supportive and involved in the pregnancy and afterwards.
> 
> If what my wife told me was the full truth... The 15 year olds father was the only one she was in a relationship with. They had an unplanned pregnancy and she miscarried. 3 months later she was pregnant, which was intentional. He wanted her to abort she wouldn't and he dumped her (around 16 weeks I think) and never looked back. The 12 and 13 year old's fathers were nothing more than FWB/hookups. One was around for a few months, the other only a couple times. She said they were not good men. She didn't think it was fair to go for child support because she got pregnant on purpose, and didn't want the father's involved. Used them as sperm donors, basically. Still, she decided to make them fathers she doesn't get to decide if they are worthy of being an active parent. Too late now. I want her to let me legally adopt them, divorce or not (done before divorce). She needs to tell me everything.
> 
> And yet, I feel ready to sign divorce papers and be done. Maybe I need to sit down and talk with her. Let her explain. Not today with all the kids home.


I think talking to both a lawyer and a counselor would be very good. Start calling when their offices open tomorrow.

Also, how about talking to a trusted friend or family member about the situation? 

People we know in real life can often give personalized insight into our particular situations that people online simply would not be able to.


----------



## anchorwatch

vandason said:


> Maybe I need to sit down and talk with her. Let her explain. Not today with all the kids home.


 @vandason, 

It's only been days. Vent as much as you want, that's what this place is for. 

Yet once again, don't make any life changing decisions until you can get yourself into a counselor's office. I say this because this betrayal has affected you so much it will be a looong time before you can be sure logic, not emotions, will drive your decisions. The need for punishment will fade and she and the children will still be there. The children only have you and her, if you destroy her, they have no mom. Until you can lead yourself and this family through this, without thoughts of revenge, you need a qualified third party to work through this. ...and she really does need help!!! 

Go back and read @Thor's post...

Have you had any sleep, have you been able to eat? 

Best to you and your family


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## lifeistooshort

OP, do what you need to do. 

Frankly, based on your wife's behavior since being married to you I think she deserves better than you as you are right now. If this is who you are then do her a favor and leave.

How will you feel about your kids knowing why you walked? Are you prepared to face them for it?

Because someday you will. 

We all get that there are times when divorce is the best option. I'm divorced, so I get that. 

But I'm fully prepared to face my kids and explain in age appropriate terms without bashing their father as to why. I already have answered some questions and I'm sure there will be more.

How will you feel about explaining yourself to your kids?


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## Thor

anchorwatch said:


> @vandason,
> 
> It's only been days. Vent as much as you want, that's what this place is for.
> 
> Yet once again, don't make any life changing decisions until you can get yourself into a counselor's office. I say this because this betrayal has affected you so much it will be a looong time before you can be sure logic, not emotions, will drive your decisions.


Heed anchor's words, because of this:



vandason said:


> Part of me wants to start the divorce process, and if I decide to stop it later than so be it. But I know I'm wanting to do that out of anger and because it will hurt and scare my wife. I want her to know the seriousness of this. That isn't the type of man that I am, a man who wants to hurt his wife.
> .
> .
> .
> And yet, I feel ready to sign divorce papers and be done. Maybe I need to sit down and talk with her. Let her explain. Not today with all the kids home.


You're all over the map, and understandably so.

From my own experience I will say that time is your friend here. In cases of affairs, speed is your friend. But not in your situation. Filing for divorce immediately would be a big mistake imho.

Your wife is even more so than what you thought of her before you discovered her past. By that I mean she really is the person you observed for the last 8 years. That is not something she could fake. What you learned of her past _reinforces who she is today_.

Now, my ex-wife was in fact a deeply deceptive and dishonest person within our entire marriage. I saw bits of it here and there, but dismissed those as outliers. Once I learned about her true history it clarified that what I had seen in so many ways over all those years were who she really was. There was this entire secret life going on I was not aware of, which she was intentionally hiding from me. There were many times I was confused or conflicted about her behavior (not just dishonesty but other bad behavior) before I knew the truth.

As it turned out, she was even more so the way I had observed her than I realized. Her past had informed her of a really broken template, which she never has repudiated even today. She continued to commit lies and deceptions even after MC and several conversations with her about it being a nuclear boundary for me.

I believe from what you have written that your wife is even more so a good wife and mother than you used to think she was. It is because she did those things in the past. She realized that was not who she wanted to be, and she made very real changes. There is no indication she is a dishonest or deceptive person in any other area of your marriage.

Her deceptions and lies are a very real problem and not one to be rug swept by either of you. If you can have calm discussions where you each get to talk _and be heard by the other_, I think you may find deeper emotional connection when you come out the far side of this crisis. Yes, I really believe there is an opportunity here for both of you to find an even better marriage.

If you had not discovered this about her past, would you still want to be married to her?

Recovery is going to be a process, not a single conversation. Act in good faith, not in haste. You'll get to the correct answer for all involved, whatever that answer may be.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## wmn1

jld said:


> I think talking to both a lawyer and a counselor would be very good. Start calling when their offices open tomorrow.
> 
> Also, how about talking to a trusted friend or family member about the situation?
> 
> People we know in real life can often give personalized insight into our particular situations that people online simply would not be able to.


now this is a very good post !! Agreed completely


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## EleGirl

Please stop the arguing between members!

{speaking as a moderator}


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## phillybeffandswiss

V you have to remember you get to feel the way you want. Please ignore all of the logical fallacies being dropped and used as proof of how wrong you are right now. What's worse in another thread doesn't pertain to your life or how you feel. You have every right to be hurt because she lied to you from the start, during the middle and up until she was caught. I'd get this entire biased rancor, IF she came to you with the truth herself. Yes, even with all of the reasons why she was scared, she was worried this is how you would react and any other reason. See, people love to ignore getting caught and then cover it with "well this was way worse" or "she was perfect here" and other excuses. She lied to you about something HUGE for your ENTIRE MARRIAGE until she was CAUGHT. Nope, this is fraud and some of the bickering is people being intellectual dishonest and worried about their own pride. Yes, I do find the minimization and bickering quite funny. This isn't 4 more sex parties, a threesome with a friend you didn't know or infidelity because of built up resentment. Don't let anyone SHAME YOU because they would do things differently, since most of us posting have NO CLUE how it feels to live one huge lie an entire marriage and through dating.

I am not telling you to divorce her either, I'm just saying you get to feel this way until you calm down. Also, if you don't calm down don't let anyone fool you into calling yourself a bad parent, being prideful, look at this other really awful marriage or anything they feel outside of the situation. Nope, you aren't the jerk in this situation as many are trying to make you feel, your wife is the one who screwed up.

Again calm down, even if it takes a week, ignore all of the gender bias being thrown at you and then talk with your wife and see where it goes.


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## EleGirl

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, do what you need to do.
> 
> Frankly, based on your wife's behavior since being married to you I think she deserves better than you as you are right now. If this is who you are then do her a favor and leave.
> 
> How will you feel about your kids knowing why you walked? Are you prepared to face them for it?
> 
> Because someday you will.
> 
> We all get that there are times when divorce is the best option. I'm divorced, so I get that.
> 
> But I'm fully prepared to face my kids and explain in age appropriate terms without bashing their father as to why. I already have answered some questions and I'm sure there will be more.
> 
> How will you feel about explaining yourself to your kids?


I agree with this. One thing that parents need to remember is that their children are 50% made up of each parent. So, when one parent disparages the other parent, what the children hear is that they too are bad--that 50% of them that is made up of their mother is bad. And they own it.

Your wife's 3 older children might very well associate 100% with their mother in this regard. So if you reject their mother, or hold her as ***** and God knows what else, they will feel that this is who they are.

I think that your wife did a very bad thing lying about her children's fathers. I understand why she did it. But it was wrong. But I also believe in redeption and forgiveness. Without it all of us might as well give up. Without it no one would ever bother to make huge changes as your wife clearly has.

If you end your marriage and divorce your wife over this, what you are teaching your children is that there is never any forgiveness in this world. That if they mess up, there is no coming back from it. If one of them, for example, end up with a drug problem for a while, they may as well just end their lives because they will be outcasts from society forever. What if one of your daughters ends up pregnant? Or your sons gets some girl pregnant? That's the end of their life with the way you are thinking here. They would not be worthy people ever, not ever. They would be trash that everyone should turn their back on.

That's a pretty harsh world for anyone to live in.

Yes your wife lied. It's because she knew that there is little to no forgiveness in this world. She could grow into the most wonderful adult, mother and wife. But none of that matters. All that matters is that in her youth she was imperfect... she made some bad choices.

You say that she deceived the fathers of her 3 children. But the first one split when she refused to get an abortion. She did not deceive him. He left of his own accord. He abandoned his child. You said that the second one stuck around for a few months. He must have known that she was pregnant--but he left. Again he abandoned his child. The third guy seems to have not cared on way or another since he did not stick around at all. I don't think she deceived any of them. Instead she just did not drag them into court to force them to pay child support. Clearly none of them has any interest in their children. From what you said, 2 of them clearly know that they have children.

I get that you are angry. Most people would be. But this woman has been a good wife and mother. If you leave you, she will most likely be destroyed. When you destroy the mother of a child, you destroy that child... so you will be destroy 6 children. (and yes the reverse is true if the father of the child is destroyed). 

Others have brought up that she has been a good wife and mother for a long time. Doesn't that count for anything?

What would you need from your wife to reconcile? Could you think about this some and make a list of what you think it would take?


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

It's fascinating how divergent the various positions are on this thread.

Everyone seems to agree that the lie was bad, but there is huge difference regarding how bad and whether or not extenuating circumstances should be considered.

But all that is secondary to the last 8 years together as a single, solid couple. Yes, the lie was allowed to continue, so some may doubt whether or not those 8 years were truly solid.

But it's clear the OPs wife has clearly changed her course. She has, in all other ways proven to be an excellent wife and mother. Whatever demons or foolishness drive her younger behavior, they are gone now and have been gone for some time. 

Other than not self disclosing,this appears to be a woman who despite a very rough go for a while (even if of her own making), has somehow overcome her previous programming and become incredibly stable. Stability is a rare quality and should not be easily cast aside based on what came before.

Like everyone on this thread,I don't know the whole story or the true character of the OP and his wife, but I do see posters presumably allowing the pain of past lies to lead them to harsh judgment and black-and-white responses to a very grey question.

As for teaching the kids there are "consequences," it seems many consequences have already been faced, learned from, and overcome. That could be a source of inspiration itself (when age appropriate); at a minimum it can serve as lessons learned, which could only be taught if mom is there for them. Every hard lesson I learned from my parents' difficulties is one I didn't have to learn on my own, and I learned them best from them having stuck together.


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## NoChoice

vandason said:


> Part of me wants to start the divorce process, and if I decide to stop it later than so be it. But I know I'm wanting to do that out of anger and because it will hurt and scare my wife. I want her to know the seriousness of this. That isn't the type of man that I am, a man who wants to hurt his wife. Yet, now I am. I know she is extremely upset and scared and I'm not doing anything about it. Today is Mother's Day and no part of me wants to see or contact her. The timing sucks but maybe that's part of the consequence.


Yes OP is not revenge a sweet dish best served cold!!! Do you honestly believe that she does not know how serious this is? Look deep inside OP because this is exactly the type of man you are. You are her H, for better or worse, do you recall those vows? No, that is not so, lest we forget how she manipulated and trapped you into marrying her.

Your W, and she is still your W, the mother of six children, is sitting there scared and alone on the day set aside to honor mothers. If nothing else do not the last 8 years hold no meaning to you, since your vows apparently do not. It is indeed the male you are.




vandason said:


> I am tempted to speak to a lawyer, at the very least. I know I need to talk to a counsellor as well, come Monday I can figure that out. Maybe I'll realize I'm being a jackass, or that I really am done.
> 
> I can understanding hiding a past like that and wanting a father for her kids, but that is still manipulation. If she was only interested in me because she thought I'd make a good stand-in father then that's an issue to me. If she actually changed her irresponsible, conniving ways then yes I'm sure that took a lot of work.


Manipulating as in reveling in the fact that the mother of your children is sitting home alone on Mother's day as you contemplate speaking to an attorney about D so as to scare and hurt her, that sort of manipulation? Wrong +wrong = right. This math is incorrect. 



vandason said:


> *I want to be able to say that she still seems like a conniving ***** and list all these terrible things that she has done directly to me over the years (excluding this). I can't. If she hadn't changed she probably wouldn't be able to hide the behaviour for so long*. But there still comes the worry, are our youngest 3 even mine. Which I asked her, in a terrible way.


She is getting exactly what she deserves is she not OP?



vandason said:


> We were together for 2 years before we married. She was had an IUD and insisted on condoms as well, sometimes even pulling out with a condom (and her IUD). We didn't have any surprises or scares and she was more freaked out about it than I was. Getting pregnant after we married was a mutual decision and fully planned. She was nervous about getting pregnant and wasn't happy when she had the positive test, she was scared. I remember her saying that she wanted to do it right that time and wanted me to be supportive and involved in the pregnancy and afterwards.


If this does not convince you that her fundamental character has changed then I do not know what proof can be offered. This is diametrically opposed to her past behavior. A leopardess can perhaps hide her spots for a time but only a tigress has stripes. 



vandason said:


> If what my wife told me was the full truth... The 15 year olds father was the only one she was in a relationship with. They had an unplanned pregnancy and she miscarried. 3 months later she was pregnant, which was intentional. He wanted her to abort she wouldn't and he dumped her (around 16 weeks I think) and never looked back. The 12 and 13 year old's fathers were nothing more than FWB/hookups. One was around for a few months, the other only a couple times. She said they were not good men. She didn't think it was fair to go for child support because she got pregnant on purpose, and didn't want the father's involved. Used them as sperm donors, basically. Still, she decided to make them fathers she doesn't get to decide if they are worthy of being an active parent. Too late now. I want her to let me legally adopt them, divorce or not (done before divorce). She needs to tell me everything.


She does need to tell you everything but the environment you have created is explosive. In her mind she would be committing marital suicide to open up to you.



vandason said:


> And yet, I feel ready to sign divorce papers and be done. Maybe I need to sit down and talk with her. Let her explain. Not today with all the kids home.


OP,
Do not sit down and open the lines of communication with this vixen, this woman that manipulated you into a marriage and then worked diligently and successfully I might add, to make it and you happy, she deserves no such respect from you, she committed the most unthinkable act any woman can perpetrate on a man, she trapped you into a happy marriage.

By all means OP exact your pound of flesh from this vile creature who trapped you into a marriage by taking extra precautions AGAINST pregnancy during dating and who has treated you with such disdain and hatred for the last 8 years. For giving you three (six) children that you adore and wanting to "do it right" this time by involving, no submersing you in the process.

Do you think she wanted to "do it right" this time because she has painfully realized that she did it all wrong before? No, not possible, she is evil and deserving of your wrath, pour it out upon her and delight in the pain she suffers. You were wronged, exact your vengeance.

By all means D this wretched woman and go find yourself an honest wife. Just remember to tell this new wife your WHOLE backstory, including why you need a new wife.

I want you to know that I told myself that I would refrain from posting on this thread due to the fact that I strive to look at everything with as little emotion as possible and this thread is quite heart wrenching but I simply could not restrain myself.

You seemingly have no idea how rare what you have experienced is. The ability to change your root command structure and form a totally different persona is quite remarkable, if not borderline miraculous. Perhaps you could actually learn from your wife and have a transformation of your own, it appears you need one, not because your are hurt and feel betrayed but more so the way you are handling this situation. You are the father of six children not the oldest of seven.

You mentioned not wanting to be that man that causes your wife pain but you can allay that angst because you are no man. You are an angry boy that runs away and seeks only retribution. A man would face his problems and deal with them and would not be intent on forcing his pain onto her, believe me she has enough of her own.

A real man could reign in his emotions sufficiently to rationally and calmly communicate to her that what she did has hurt you to your core and that the pain may be too much for you to live with. A man that intentionally hurts a woman is no man, any male can do that.

A man is one that will endure the pain, subdue the anger and make the necessary decision to stay or leave reasonably, for the sake of all involved. Instead you have made yourself the center of this issue as if there are not seven other people involved who are scared and hurt also.

I will leave now and let you wallow but consider this, when time makes this event history how will all those involved, you included, view your historic reaction. Will you be viewed as a man, that did the best for all involved, himself included, or as a boy that did what he wanted, everyone else be damned. A man can shoulder an extraordinary amount of pain if necessary, a boy cannot. I wish you and your family good fortune. I can wish it, only you can give it.


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## vandason

EleGirl said:


> I agree with this. One thing that parents need to remember is that their children are 50% made up of each parent. So, when one parent disparages the other parent, what the children hear is that they too are bad--that 50% of them that is made up of their mother is bad. And they own it.
> 
> Your wife's 3 older children might very well associate 100% with their mother in this regard. So if you reject their mother, or hold her as ***** and God knows what else, they will feel that this is who they are.
> 
> I think that your wife did a very bad thing lying about her children's fathers. I understand why she did it. But it was wrong. But I also believe in redeption and forgiveness. Without it all of us might as well give up. Without it no one would ever bother to make huge changes as your wife clearly has.=
> If you end your marriage and divorce your wife over this, what you are teaching your children is that there is never any forgiveness in this world. That if they mess up, there is no coming back from it. If one of them, for example, end up with a drug problem for a while, they may as well just end their lives because they will be outcasts from society forever. What if one of your daughters ends up pregnant? Or your sons gets some girl pregnant? That's the end of their life with the way you are thinking here. They would not be worthy people ever, not ever. They would be trash that everyone should turn their back on.
> 
> That's a pretty harsh world for anyone to live in.
> 
> Yes your wife lied. It's because she knew that there is little to no forgiveness in this world. She could grow into the most wonderful adult, mother and wife. But none of that matters. All that matters is that in her youth she was imperfect... she made some bad choices.
> 
> You say that she deceived the fathers of her 3 children. But the first one split when she refused to get an abortion. She did not deceive him. He left of his own accord. He abandoned his child. You said that the second one stuck around for a few months. He must have known that she was pregnant--but he left. Again he abandoned his child. The third guy seems to have not cared on way or another since he did not stick around at all. I don't think she deceived any of them. Instead she just did not drag them into court to force them to pay child support. Clearly none of them has any interest in their children. From what you said, 2 of them clearly know that they have children.
> 
> I get that you are angry. Most people would be. But this woman has been a good wife and mother. If you leave you, she will most likely be destroyed. When you destroy the mother of a child, you destroy that child... so you will be destroy 6 children. (and yes the reverse is true if the father of the child is destroyed).
> 
> Others have brought up that she has been a good wife and mother for a long time. Doesn't that count for anything?
> 
> What would you need from your wife to reconcile? Could you think about this some and make a list of what you think it would take?


Each of our older kids have gone through some difficult times of feeling poorly about themselves because 'their father' didn't want them, and feeling like my wife was trying to replace or redo when we had 3 kids together. Interestingly of the same genders in the same order. 

If you end your marriage and divorce your wife over this, what you are teaching your children is that there is never any forgiveness in this world. That if they mess up, there is no coming back from it. If one of them, for example, end up with a drug problem for a while, they may as well just end their lives because they will be outcasts from society forever. What if one of your daughters ends up pregnant? Or your sons gets some girl pregnant? That's the end of their life with the way you are thinking here. They would not be worthy people ever, not ever. They would be trash that everyone should turn their back on.

I think there is a difference between forgiveness and being a doormat. Or teaching our kids actions have consequences or all can be let go. Honesty is a must in a relationship or it will likely fail. I may be the one pulling the plug, but my wife's actions caused it. Had my wife come clean long ago, maybe it would have been different. 

She deceived the first father by getting pregnant intentionally. Yes, he did leave on his own. She was more open about him than the other two fathers. The other two fathers she said very little about. All she said about the second was that he was around for a few months, no indication if he knew she was pregnant. She could have taken a few months to get pregnant or hid it from him. Anything about the second and third fathers is speculation until I talk to her. 

I cannot stay with her just so she doesn't get hurt or upset. She made her own bed. I understand that our kids may be hurt as well, and no I don't want that. But that falls under "staying together for the kids", and that is never a good idea. 

In ways she has been a good wife and mother. But in ways she has absolutely not. I'm sorry but lying about something this large to her husband and her children take away good wife/mother points. She has been a good wife and mother, but it feels like a lie. She needs to prove, somehow, that it wasn't a lie. 

She needs to tell me everything, no more secrets, no hiding anything, no bits and pieces. All or nothing. She needs to own it and stop making excuses. She needs to come clean to her family. The father in me wants to say that she needs to contact the fathers, of at least the youngest 2, and tell them. I'd worry about legal problems. The father in me (that sees them as my kids) doesn't want other men interfering or hurting the kids. She needs to figure out how and when to tell the kids, and do it. She needs to go to counselling to figure out why she'd ever do that in the first place, and then lie about it for years. Kids probably need to go into counselling. She needs to let me legally adopt them, no excuses now. She needs to want to work on it and realize I might not want to stay married to her. In some ways I feel like I need to get to know her again, all over. 



TheTruthHurts said:


> If you end your marriage and divorce, you are telling your kids that the truth matters, character counts, and being a liar has consequences.
> 
> You owe it to your kids to maintain your character and boundaries.
> 
> If you choose to attempt reconciliation, which should be a long way off AFTER she provides a full accounting and changes from regret to remorse, then your W may be able to teach her kids how to rebuild trust and character


I agree more with this. 



lifeistooshort said:


> OP, do what you need to do.
> 
> Frankly, based on your wife's behavior since being married to you I think she deserves better than you as you are right now. If this is who you are then do her a favor and leave.
> 
> How will you feel about your kids knowing why you walked? Are you prepared to face them for it?
> 
> Because someday you will.
> 
> We all get that there are times when divorce is the best option. I'm divorced, so I get that.
> 
> But I'm fully prepared to face my kids and explain in age appropriate terms without bashing their father as to why. I already have answered some questions and I'm sure there will be more.
> 
> How will you feel about explaining yourself to your kids?


I disagree with this. If I decide to leave, and nothing is decided, it is because of my wife's actions not because of mine. Yes, I'd want to be able to tell them that I tried but if we try and cannot work it out it is still a result of her actions. 



jld said:


> I think talking to both a lawyer and a counselor would be very good. Start calling when their offices open tomorrow.
> 
> Also, how about talking to a trusted friend or family member about the situation?
> 
> People we know in real life can often give personalized insight into our particular situations that people online simply would not be able to.


Telling my friends and family that I'm Baby Daddy #4 doesn't sound like a fun thing to do. There was enough judgement for being a never married, childless man getting with a woman with 3 kids. I know my friends (and family) and know they would judge someone for having children with multiple men. The angry part of me wants to expose it to everyone, so my wife really has to deal with it. The part of me that actually cares about my wife doesn't want to do that to her. Really though, I think I need to out her so she can't keep hiding it and refusing to deal with it. There is also embarrassment on my side, for being with her and not knowing. 

I know that my 3 closest friends would be very surprised. They have all made comments about her being shy and a "goody two shoes". I know that she doesn't come off as someone who slept around getting knocked up left and right.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## sokillme

Duguesclin said:


> When you are well fed, stealing food is morally wrong. When you are hungry, stealing food is still morally wrong. But it may be a necessity to stay alive.
> 
> Knowing he would not marry her based on her past, I can understand why she deceived him in order to provide a healthier life for her children.
> 
> If you buy a car with 40,000 miles, understanding it was from a single owner, and you discover, when the car is now 150,000 miles, that the car came from New Orleans during Katerina, you are going to be pissed. However, it does not mean you are going to get rid of it, especially if it is running well.
> 
> OP has the right to be upset. But whatever decision he makes today should be based on today's data, not something that happened many years ago. He needs to assess the trust he has in her overall. If the broken trust is only the lack of transparency about her past, I would argue it is not wise to divorce, especially when considering the impact on the kids.


OP using this same logic one can understand why you must leave her when she used fraud to get you to marry her. When you marry someone under false pretenses leaving them when you find that out is NOT morally wrong.

Personally I believe this logic is flawed in both cases.


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## sokillme

Edmund said:


> Hey Wolf,
> I gave my honest opinion which I am entitled to do here, as are you. What his wife did is nothing compared to some of the threads on this forum where the wife has a secret affair during the marriage, lies about it, denies it, tricks husband into buying a new house, car, etc. then a few weeks later files for divorce because she needs, space, isn't sure she wants to be married, LYBNILWY, other BS when all she wants is to move her AP into her husbands house and get rid of husband. I do think, with her background of various lovers / fathers, six children, she will need to find a man with a very big and forgiving heart, and it is not OP. It will not be easy to find a man like this. I think she should get 100% custody because he states that not only does he not love her as I said in my previous reply, not only does he hate her, he LOATHES her. This means he will half loathe his own three children as well because they are half her. It is really a bad situation for her, too.
> BTW, judging from your avatar, I would say your own anger may be affecting your physical appearance. Maybe you should try being less angry at me for having an opinion. I see there are several others that agree with my assessment. Let OP make up his own mind which of us is right.


Her behavior points to some very big character flaws though, these things don't exist in a vacuum. Look I am staying I would stay with her, but to act like this is not a tremendous red flag even if for the time being she was the best wife on earth is to be very naive about it. Character is character, one must wonder what else she would be willing to lie about to get what she wants. How about taxes, credit card fraud. I can probably run off any number of things that it would be much easier to lie about then to face the music, it could also put you in a much better position just the way lying to OP did. Still he must be very careful because as her husband he may be liable. 

This is a very, very serious thing. Starting a relationship on a foundation of lies requires a person who is very morally compromised.


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## sokillme

vandason said:


> The 12 and 13 year old's fathers were nothing more than FWB/hookups.


I would absoultly NOT take her word on this. You have no idea any of this is the truth. The truth may be more or less painful but you should not just assume that she is telling you the truth now. Your wife has shown you she is not above changing facts to minimize damage to herself. 

I could think of any number of reasons why she doesn't want to tell you who the father is, or how the children were conceived.

The story doesn't ring true to me.



> And yet, I feel ready to sign divorce papers and be done.


Understand you have 3 children by this woman, for better or for worse you will never be done with her. To some extend you life will be tied to her forever. This is important to understand because divorce is not the escape clause you are looking for it to be. Personally this would be a big reason why I would consider working on the marriage. You say she was a good wife to you, and if that is true, that is not always an easy thing to find. It's harder with 6 kids in tow. Up until this happened you had what you considered a good marriage. Again not easy to find. 

Believe me reading my previous posts I am not in any way minimizing the level of betrayal, I am just trying to point out logically what you situation is and what it isn't. There is really no running away from his.


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## Wolfman1968

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duguesclin View Post
When you are well fed, stealing food is morally wrong. When you are hungry, stealing food is still morally wrong. But it may be a necessity to stay alive.

Knowing he would not marry her based on her past, I can understand why she deceived him in order to provide a healthier life for her children. 

If you buy a car with 40,000 miles, understanding it was from a single owner, and you discover, when the car is now 150,000 miles, that the car came from New Orleans during Katerina, you are going to be pissed. However, it does not mean you are going to get rid of it, especially if it is running well.

OP has the right to be upset. But whatever decision he makes today should be based on today's data, not something that happened many years ago. He needs to assess the trust he has in her overall. If the broken trust is only the lack of transparency about her past, I would argue it is not wise to divorce, especially when considering the impact on the kids.


sokillme said:


> Using this same logic one can understand why he must leave her when she used fraud to get him to marry her. When you marry someone under false pretenses leaving them when you find that out is NOT morally wrong.


Yes, sokillme, I agree with you.

All these people that "understand" the OP's wife forget one thing...unlike a car, or unlike stolen food, a life is irreplaceable. You only get one life.

You get one pass through. Those 8 years he spent with her, 6 years married under false pretenses, can never be given back. Never.
The children are an irrevocable commitment.

The OP's wife KNEW he would not marry her if she was honest....so she lied. She took away from him the right to decide what kind of person with what kind of history he would marry.
It doesn't matter it these kibitzing posters agree or not about his criteria. His right to have a requirement for a spouse should be ABSOLUTE.

She decided that HER needs were more important that HIS needs. That's the OPPOSITE of love.
Love is when someone ELSE'S happiness is vital to your own--or even MORE IMPORTANT than your own.

So, by that criteria, you could say she didn't love him when she married him.

She MANIPULATED him.


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## Truthseeker1

@vandason - my views on lying to land a spouse are clear and* some posters who would say your wife deserves better than you are WAY off base and unhelpful so please disregard comments like that.* However I am STRONGLY counseling you to take some time to digest this, think about your six kids and think about the kind of wife she has been to you for most of your marriage. There are folks who cling to their spouses after multiple affairs or affairs that lasted 2 years or more. If she has been a good wife to you and you have a happy family life I caution you to NOT blow this up. YES your feelings are valid and YES you should be angry but remember those kids and your wife need you. You CAN work through this - people work through much worse and the message you would be sending your kids is not that you are a doormat but somethings are worth firhgting for despite the obstacles and the odds. 

If your wife can use this experience to grow it could be a better marriage and stronger family so PLEASE proceed with extreme caution - there are six innocent lives depending on you and your ability to keep this thing together.


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## Wolfman1968

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeistooshort View Post
OP, do what you need to do. 

Frankly, based on your wife's behavior since being married to you I think she deserves better than you as you are right now. If this is who you are then do her a favor and leave.

How will you feel about your kids knowing why you walked? Are you prepared to face them for it?

Because someday you will. 

We all get that there are times when divorce is the best option. I'm divorced, so I get that. 

But I'm fully prepared to face my kids and explain in age appropriate terms without bashing their father as to why. I already have answered some questions and I'm sure there will be more.

How will you feel about explaining yourself to your kids?



vandason said:


> I disagree with this. If I decide to leave, and nothing is decided, it is because of my wife's actions not because of mine. Yes, I'd want to be able to tell them that I tried but if we try and cannot work it out it is still a result of her actions.



You're right, Vandason.

I just don't understand these "she deserves better than you" posters. Your reaction is a DIRECT RESULT of her YEARS of lying and deceit. In fact, it had practical consequences, such as interfering with the ability to adopt the older children, so it was not just "in the past."
She CREATED your reaction, and it's only been days since you've found out. You've had the whole world pulled out from under you, you don't know what is true or false, you don't know where the manipulation begins and ends. 
Was she being a "doormat" because she has matured or because she didn't want to "rock the boat" and lose her set-up? I don't know.
Or was it because if any conflict arose and a divorce ever occurred, the truth would come out? I don't know.

Sometimes we see posters talk about finding out something bad about their spouse--even if was in their past (cheating years ago, crime years ago, gay/tansvestite "experimentation", whatever) ---and with the web of lies, the poster states, "I really don't know him, my marriage is built on lies!". 
So, it would seem, in a sense, that you "really don't know her". So how can you really know what you want to do at this point? And how can you commit to her at this point if you can't be SURE who the real "her" is?

These other posters are victim-shaming you and verbally beating you like a piñata just because you won't shake off her deceit like it was nothing, not recognizing that you have had the world pulled out from under you and are in free fall. You need support, not shaming. It's easy for others to spout off from the distance of a computer screen when they don't put anything on the line, particularly their own happiness. Your life is yours and you need to make the decision which is right for you. I would say, however, that you need to BREATHE! Don't make hasty decisions, whatever you do. But don't let her off the hook, either. She needs to come clean and this needs to be hashed out to YOUR satisfaction. YOU get to decide if you want to go forward with the marriage, no one gets to make that decision for you. If she doesn't want to come clean, she has the right to walk. But she needs to show you who she REALLY is. And I don't buy any of the BS we hear from posters, "you should know by now after six years" BS. We've seen plenty of other posts where there have been cheater, double-life, personality disorders, etc. stories, and people don't make that lame "you should know by now" claim.

One poster who writes in Coping With Infidelity frequently says (of his own Reconciliation)--his old marriage was dead. He had the opportunity to build a new marriage which was pretty good with his wife. It was not the same as the old marriage--never could be, but he could have something of value anyway. You've been robbed of everything you believed in about your marriage. Once you recover from your disorientation, you need to decide---Who is this person who is my wife? Is she really the same Manipulator of Men (intentional pregnancies, lied to me about past, prevented me from adopting, etc.), or is she now a person who I could build a relationship--even if that relationship is not as good as the old one?


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## vandason

Wolfman1968 said:


> You've had the whole world pulled out from under you, you don't know what is true or false, you don't know where the manipulation begins and ends.
> Was she being a "doormat" because she has matured or because she didn't want to "rock the boat" and lose her set-up? I don't know.
> Or was it because if any conflict arose and a divorce ever occurred, the truth would come out? I don't know.
> 
> --Who is this person who is my wife? Is she really the same Manipulator of Men (intentional pregnancies, lied to me about past, prevented me from adopting, etc.), or is she now a person who I could build a relationship--even if that relationship is not as good as the old one?


This. I am questioning everything. Is she a doormat because that is just her personality, or should I expect a big change in personality now that she no longer has a secret to hide? Am I going to go home to a woman who as a person resembles nothing of the woman I chose to marry? How much of our marriage has she manipulated to get it to how she wanted it? Did she choose to marry me because she genuinely wanted to be with me or because she wanted a stand-in father, security and I was the first idiot to fall for her tricks?


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## crocus

OP, my ex husband is now a 40 something man with two half brothers...all 3 have different fathers and don't know them. I can remember when he had to beg his mother for a name...and his father denied him, refused to talk to him. It hurt him deeply. Mostly because he never had a stepfather either. 
All I wanted to say was I hope you can find room in your heart in the future for her 3 children, even without her. A purpose, even. I feel for your situation. You are in my thoughts. Peace.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vandason

crocus said:


> OP, my ex husband is now a 40 something man with two half brothers...all 3 have different fathers and don't know them. I can remember when he had to beg his mother for a name...and his father denied him, refused to talk to him. It hurt him deeply. Mostly because he never had a stepfather either.
> All I wanted to say was I hope you can find room in your heart in the future for her 3 children, even without her. A purpose, even. I feel for your situation. You are in my thoughts. Peace.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can envision her 3 kids having to pry that information from my wife. She said she knows their names and could contact them. I don't want them to have to go through the pain of having to search for their various fathers and be hurt. Or perhaps one father is more accepting than the others, hurting the other kids. Her kids have this false story in their head of "their father" and what really happened, because my wife lied to them and everyone else. 

Especially the oldest. He is 15 and thinks that his father was around for the early part of his childhood, same with the middle child though she doesn't talk about it much. The middle child is the most "ok". Then the youngest, has gone through many periods of jealousy and resentment because "their father" left before birth and she didn't have the opportunity to "know" her dad. 

I remember a conversation with my wife's youngest. She asked if her dad had ever held her, and the answer was no because he left before she was born. Then she said, "but he held my siblings?" which the answer (lie) was yes. Followed by "why didn't he want me, what did I do wrong and why wasn't I good enough". 

The oldest has held resentment over the youngest because she "caused" his dad to leave. For years those two hated each other because one "had" what the other wanted and one "ruined" what the other thought they had. 

All 3 of them have asked what their dad looks like. I don't know who my wife has described, if it's bits and pieces from each man or some made up character. It's not just that she lied to me and that MY marriage has been a lie. It's that she is lying to everyone and her kids have been living a lie since the moment they were born. 

My wife needs to tell them the truth, but then they - like me - have their world pulled out from under them and their life feels like a lie. Divorce or not, I wouldn't abandon the older kids. Legally might be a different story. Normally I don't distinguish them as her kids or our kids. They are just our kids, we have 6 kids. 6 kids live in my home, call me dad and will be my kids until the day I die. Divorce or not, I'd want to adopt them. I've wanted to for years and would have long ago if my wife would have told the truth.


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## Thor

vandason said:


> This. I am questioning everything. Is she a doormat because that is just her personality, or should I expect a big change in personality now that she no longer has a secret to hide? Am I going to go home to a woman who as a person resembles nothing of the woman I chose to marry? How much of our marriage has she manipulated to get it to how she wanted it? Did she choose to marry me because she genuinely wanted to be with me or because she wanted a stand-in father, security and I was the first idiot to fall for her tricks?


Those are all very valid questions and feelings. I went through the same thing when I found out about some big secrets my now ex-W had kept from me for 30 years. And then more bits and pieces started coming to light, and yet more deceptions and lies were discovered.

There is one very big difference in your situation compared to mine. I had seen various indications of my wife's selfishness and dishonesty through the years. A couple were really pretty large, like getting pregnant on purpose but not telling me she was on fertility meds. Others were fairly minor but were red flags as to her real mindset. But you have not described any such behaviors in your wife for the entire time you've known her. All indications are that the real her for the duration of time you've known her is exactly as you had judged her to be. A great mom and wife.

If you were "the first idiot to fall for her tricks", I would expect there to be various bad events during your marriage. She would not make you feel wanted and loved. She couldn't keep up the act for 8 years. You would have caught on. Chances are she would have changed for the worse shortly after the wedding, and she would have treated you poorly. We do see this sequence here and in real life quite a bit. But given all that you've written about how she's been since you've known her, I stand by my opinion she is who you thought she was, and is not the same person who did all those things before you met her.

All of your questions need to be asked within MC. You need to feel that your wife hears what you say without trying to argue that you shouldn't feel that way. Your wife needs to give you thoughtful complete answers to your questions about what she's done and why. She needs to explain why she thought it was ok to lie to you. You may not like some of her answers, but it is important she says her truth to you and you hear it. MC is where you can do this.

Yes, this was a betrayal she committed. It needs to be processed in order for healing to occur.


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## Truthseeker1

vandason said:


> They are just our kids, we have 6 kids. 6 kids live in my home, call me dad and will be my kids until the day I die. Divorce or not, I'd want to adopt them. I've wanted to for years and would have long ago if my wife would have told the truth.


This right here - they need you. You are the only dad they ever had or ever will have - period. What natters is you supported them when they needed it not the other guys. You are th eone stable, responsible parent they have right now pleasethink before you make any drastic moves. But let me be clear - you are right to be angry and have lots of questions - just channel it in a way that helps your family not hurts it. The example you have set is a parent takes responsibility and commitment is more than just sharing some good times together. You and you alone have to shepherd them through this. I'm sure you can do it!


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## jlg07

vandason said:


> Each of our older kids have gone through some difficult times of feeling poorly about themselves because 'their father' didn't want them, and feeling like my wife was trying to replace or redo when we had 3 kids together. Interestingly of the same genders in the same order.
> 
> If you end your marriage and divorce your wife over this, what you are teaching your children is that there is never any forgiveness in this world. That if they mess up, there is no coming back from it. If one of them, for example, end up with a drug problem for a while, they may as well just end their lives because they will be outcasts from society forever. What if one of your daughters ends up pregnant? Or your sons gets some girl pregnant? That's the end of their life with the way you are thinking here. They would not be worthy people ever, not ever. They would be trash that everyone should turn their back on.
> 
> I think there is a difference between forgiveness and being a doormat. Or teaching our kids actions have consequences or all can be let go. Honesty is a must in a relationship or it will likely fail. I may be the one pulling the plug, but my wife's actions caused it. Had my wife come clean long ago, maybe it would have been different.
> 
> She deceived the first father by getting pregnant intentionally. Yes, he did leave on his own. She was more open about him than the other two fathers. The other two fathers she said very little about. All she said about the second was that he was around for a few months, no indication if he knew she was pregnant. She could have taken a few months to get pregnant or hid it from him. Anything about the second and third fathers is speculation until I talk to her.
> 
> I cannot stay with her just so she doesn't get hurt or upset. She made her own bed. I understand that our kids may be hurt as well, and no I don't want that. But that falls under "staying together for the kids", and that is never a good idea.
> 
> In ways she has been a good wife and mother. But in ways she has absolutely not. I'm sorry but lying about something this large to her husband and her children take away good wife/mother points. She has been a good wife and mother, but it feels like a lie. She needs to prove, somehow, that it wasn't a lie.
> 
> She needs to tell me everything, no more secrets, no hiding anything, no bits and pieces. All or nothing. She needs to own it and stop making excuses. She needs to come clean to her family. The father in me wants to say that she needs to contact the fathers, of at least the youngest 2, and tell them. I'd worry about legal problems. The father in me (that sees them as my kids) doesn't want other men interfering or hurting the kids. She needs to figure out how and when to tell the kids, and do it. She needs to go to counselling to figure out why she'd ever do that in the first place, and then lie about it for years. Kids probably need to go into counselling. She needs to let me legally adopt them, no excuses now. She needs to want to work on it and realize I might not want to stay married to her. In some ways I feel like I need to get to know her again, all over.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree more with this.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this. If I decide to leave, and nothing is decided, it is because of my wife's actions not because of mine. Yes, I'd want to be able to tell them that I tried but if we try and cannot work it out it is still a result of her actions.
> 
> 
> 
> Telling my friends and family that I'm Baby Daddy #4 doesn't sound like a fun thing to do. There was enough judgement for being a never married, childless man getting with a woman with 3 kids. I know my friends (and family) and know they would judge someone for having children with multiple men. The angry part of me wants to expose it to everyone, so my wife really has to deal with it. The part of me that actually cares about my wife doesn't want to do that to her. Really though, I think I need to out her so she can't keep hiding it and refusing to deal with it. There is also embarrassment on my side, for being with her and not knowing.
> 
> I know that my 3 closest friends would be very surprised. They have all made comments about her being shy and a "goody two shoes". I know that she doesn't come off as someone who slept around getting knocked up left and right.


V, I wouldn't expose to anyone just yet. In all fairness this is something in YOUR MARRIAGE -- between the both of you and really shouldn't be decided by your friends and family voting on it. I just don't see how it would help. If you decide you can't work this out, there is plenty of time to tell folks why later.

PLEASE try to talk with your wife. Tell her you both need to go to MC or another such venue to work through this if you need that (i.e. don't let her hide/refuse to deal with it). You have said yourself that she has been a great wife/mother. I certainly understand your feelings of betrayal with this, and you question her character, morals, etc.. Try to think logically -- DO YOU think she is the same person now as she was? Do you think she has successfully fooled you these past 8 years and that she really ISN'T the person you were married to for 8 years? Do you think she deserves to have you attempt to discuss/work on it before you make any life-altering decisions (that affect a LOT of people)? YES she needs to own this and work on it with you -- but WITH YOU. She definitely needs to tell everything -- and if she holds stuff back, directly ask her WHY?? She does owe that to you.


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## EleGirl

vandason said:


> I can envision her 3 kids having to pry that information from my wife. She said she knows their names and could contact them. I don't want them to have to go through the pain of having to search for their various fathers and be hurt. Or perhaps one father is more accepting than the others, hurting the other kids. Her kids have this false story in their head of "their father" and what really happened, because my wife lied to them and everyone else.
> 
> Especially the oldest. He is 15 and thinks that his father was around for the early part of his childhood, same with the middle child though she doesn't talk about it much. The middle child is the most "ok". Then the youngest, has gone through many periods of jealousy and resentment because "their father" left before birth and she didn't have the opportunity to "know" her dad.
> 
> I remember a conversation with my wife's youngest. She asked if her dad had ever held her, and the answer was no because he left before she was born. Then she said, "but he held my siblings?" which the answer (lie) was yes. Followed by "why didn't he want me, what did I do wrong and why wasn't I good enough".
> 
> The oldest has held resentment over the youngest because she "caused" his dad to leave. For years those two hated each other because one "had" what the other wanted and one "ruined" what the other thought they had.
> 
> All 3 of them have asked what their dad looks like. I don't know who my wife has described, if it's bits and pieces from each man or some made up character. It's not just that she lied to me and that MY marriage has been a lie. It's that she is lying to everyone and her kids have been living a lie since the moment they were born.
> 
> My wife needs to tell them the truth, but then they - like me - have their world pulled out from under them and their life feels like a lie. Divorce or not, I wouldn't abandon the older kids. Legally might be a different story. Normally I don't distinguish them as her kids or our kids. They are just our kids, we have 6 kids. 6 kids live in my home, call me dad and will be my kids until the day I die. Divorce or not, I'd want to adopt them. I've wanted to for years and would have long ago if my wife would have told the truth.


Sadly, if you divorce your wife, she can prevent you from ever seeing her 3 children. You have no legal standing. I was a step parent who raised by two step children. There were issues where this became a problem because the law does not give step parents any rights. I'm not saying that she would prevent you from seeing them, but she could.


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## EleGirl

How is it possible that no one in her family and not one of her friends know that the 3 children have different fathers? How would they not know that she was not with one man over a 6 year period time?


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## EleGirl

vandason said:


> She needs to tell me everything, no more secrets, no hiding anything, no bits and pieces. All or nothing. She needs to own it and stop making excuses. She needs to come clean to her family. The father in me wants to say that she needs to contact the fathers, of at least the youngest 2, and tell them. I'd worry about legal problems. The father in me (that sees them as my kids) doesn't want other men interfering or hurting the kids. She needs to figure out how and when to tell the kids, and do it. She needs to go to counselling to figure out why she'd ever do that in the first place, and then lie about it for years. Kids probably need to go into counselling. She needs to let me legally adopt them, no excuses now. She needs to want to work on it and realize I might not want to stay married to her. In some ways I feel like I need to get to know her again, all over.


This is a good list. I think you and she need to get into counseling and work through this. Whether you stay with her or divorce her, there is a lot to work out here. And it should be dealt with for the sake of all your children.

And don't talk to friends and family about this until you have been through some counseling and decide what is needed. It can be very embarrassing to your children to tell this friends and family about their parentage. Those who are told should be selected carefully and told in a way that will not hurt your children.


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## farsidejunky

Speaking as a Moderator:

The misandry/misogyny debate has zero to do with the OP. If you think something is a violation of the rules, report it.

Back to the OP.


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## jld

vandason said:


> Telling my friends and family that I'm Baby Daddy #4 doesn't sound like a fun thing to do. There was enough judgement for being a never married, childless man getting with a woman with 3 kids. I know my friends (and family) and know they would judge someone for having children with multiple men. The angry part of me wants to expose it to everyone, so my wife really has to deal with it. The part of me that actually cares about my wife doesn't want to do that to her. Really though, I think I need to out her so she can't keep hiding it and refusing to deal with it. There is also embarrassment on my side, for being with her and not knowing.
> 
> I know that my 3 closest friends would be very surprised. They have all made comments about her being shy and a "goody two shoes". I know that she doesn't come off as someone who slept around getting knocked up left and right.


If you can get into counseling right away, like today or tomorrow, maybe you do not need to talk to a trusted family member or friend. But if it is going to be two weeks before you can get an appointment, it may be hard to keep all this to yourself, or just between your wife and you. IRL support can be very valuable.

A lawyer should be able to give you objective advice regarding the advantages, disadvantages, and realities of divorce. That could be very clarifying.

As far as exposure . . . the reality of exposure is that everyone involved is indeed exposed. Any gloves are very likely to come off. And people will indeed make their own judgments, and it may not always feel fair or just.

The most helpful thing you can do for yourself now, imo, is to think through this whole situation as objectively as possible, ideally with professional help from a lawyer and a professional counselor. When you can look dispassionately at all the potential consequences of each decision, and weigh them against what your heart/gut is telling you, you should be in a better position to take a decision--and be as prepared as possible to accept whatever the consequences of that decision may be.


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## Mr.Fisty

Op, i suggest you seek help and wait to get to a state of equilibrium before making a decision. If you are currently being abusive emotionally, I suggest you detach and you both separate for a while before more damage is done to you both psychologically.

If I could give advice to your wife, I would tell her next time she looks for a partner, be patient. My uncle found himself in a similar situation with yourself. My now cousins are born a year apart, with different fathers. There are three of them as well. Not sure how he handled it but they are still together. I am not sure about the character of your wife but my aunt stayed with my uncle after he was injured in a drive=by, leaving him somewhat disabled. That is the advice I would give your wife, be patient as someone will come along and choose to look past her past and judge her as she is currently. I am glad my gf did the same for me as well.Although, as a male, being promiscuous has less of a stigma attached to it and I do not carry the consequence of pregnancy.

She broke something you value and if it is enough, then divorce her as we all have something we will and will not tolerate. That is a choice all must make. Whether neglect, abuse, trust, infidelity, finance, or lifestyle change, we should make a choice in our best interest as long as it aligns with our own. If you cannot live a fulfilling life nor see past her past self and actions, let her go.

Some people divorce over whom has more sexual partners, some divorce because they cannot get along with step children. Marriages is just a status to me and only valued as much as each individual values the title. Like any other relationship, it should end when one or both can no longer work towards fixing the issues, whatever those issues may be.

The truth is, you both will likely move on should things end and find others to love. We are all unique individuals but really nothing special as partners, we are replaceable. You can find someone you can trust she will find someone that can accept her. You both will cherish those qualities in your new partners.

For example, I am under 30, well off, and could care less about your wife's past. I make a six figure income. If she is attractive, caring, and can share in my life and I in hers, whom the father of her children is does not matter. As long as she is patient the next time around. I have a terrible past of my own but my gf admires me for all the shiet I overcame.


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## TAM2013

vandason said:


> Divorce or not, I wouldn't abandon the older kids. Legally might be a different story. Normally I don't distinguish them as her kids or our kids. They are just our kids, we have 6 kids. 6 kids live in my home, call me dad and *will be my kids until the day I die*. Divorce or not, I'd want to adopt them. I've wanted to for years and would have long ago if my wife would have told the truth.


Go home, give them all a big hug and tell them that, OP.


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## Satya

You were tricked and lied to, OP. 

As another person tricked and lied to for a number of years, I can sympathize with how you feel. There weren't children involved with my circumstances so that adds a few layers of complexity. 

Whatever you decide is your choice, however I would agree with some others to try and reach a state of calm before you make any lasting decisions. When emotions run high we can make snap judgments we may come to regret later. Do what you must but best to do it with a clear head.


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## Quality

my thoughts:

1. you might THINK now that the truth would have absolutely made a difference in your decision making before you married her but that's probably not the case. It's not like she owed every man all the truth about her life on the very first few dates. She had 3 kids without a father in sight and THAT was made abundantly clear very early, I presume. That's already quite a lot of baggage to take on so had she told you the full truth a bit before you married her or once you two got serious, you probably would have stayed and married her anyway and maybe even seen her shameful disclosure as a sign of maturity. In other words, it's really not about the so-called "marriage on false pretenses" that is the issue, but rather, the many years of intricate lying involving to keep the secret from you and the kids. I understand it hurts but we are talking about stupid decisions she made as a teenager.

2. It's probably enough for an annulment in the Catholic church but certainly not real biblical grounds for divorce otherwise. IMO, you rolled the dice big time by even dating and then marrying a woman with 3 kids already and God bless you for taking that on. If you wanted purity; this certainly wasn't a wise course. It's not like you were absolutely sure there was not more to this story than she told you but, like most people would, you had a couple probing conversations and took her at her word. However, you then freely stood before family and friends and without a gun pointed at your head took vows marrying this woman "for better for worse". There was no condition that who fathered her children made one difference whatsoever; and, like I said above, had she pulled you aside immediately prior to the wedding and told you, I doubt very much that you'd have walked out on her that day. I don't know you ~ so that's speculation ~ but the kind of guy that loves a woman with three kids already enough to marry her isn't the guy to walk out on her when he finds out her past is more checkered than he thought. 

3. I don't think your wife failed to tell you because she wanted to "trap" you. She pretended to everyone because she was and remains ashamed. If anything, she maintained the lie because she respected {and feared} your decency and respectability and didn't think she deserved you. This is about her and you saved her somewhat but the lie unknowingly trapped her in shame. 

4. If your wife is ashamed of her past it's because she KNOWS it's wrong and it's embarrassing. Now that you know the truth you can either LEAD your wife as her husband by teaching her {and modeling for all your children} how to go about repenting, apologizing and forgiving & sanctifying one another. You can lead her from the darkness of her shame and show her that she is loved and loveable in the light of truth. Consider the story of my friend Johnny Lingo: Eight-COW WIFE. 

5. If I was coaching you, I'd want to bring you around to focusing on the opportunities you have before you. First, I would encourage you to build your wife up and NEVER indicate again that you wouldn't have married her had she told you. It's water under the bridge because you DID marry her and you are going to remain married to her. There is no point in making your wife feel more worthless than she already does by saying or thinking otherwise. Then I'd be encouraging you to lead your household into truth by taking this opportunity to stand by your wife's side and share the truth with each and every member of your family while telling them they have the right to be angry but NOT disrespectful to their mother {your wife}. This is NOT a means to punish your wife but rather teaching her and everyone that honesty is the best course of action and that all questions will be answered honestly hereafter. Then focus on the fact that this presents THEM opportunities to meet their biofather should they choose AND to be adopted by you, if they choose. Kids can handle the truth and the truth shall set you, them AND your wife free. 

The truth was always the truth. Now that it's revealed, it is an opportunity for your family to finally live in it. It's a blessing, at least, it CAN be a blessing if one chooses to make it one. 

God has apparently given you so much, try not to squander it. She's human ~ she messed up ~ you're her husband ~ her helpmate and partner ~ help her fix it. 

YMMV


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## sokillme

What would be the purpose of exposure? To shame her? In this case I don't think its the right or kind thing to do. When it is a choice between your reputation and her, such as when you are cheated on and the person is lying about it then I say scream it from the hills. When the person is still doing the abusive behavior and exposure has the ability to possibly stop it or at least take away some of the self-deluded glamor of the affair again I say expose. In this case I don't think there is any befit to you, her, and especially her kids. Even if you want to punish her, the possibility of separating is more then enough. She has been a good wife to you, show mercy, this is honorable and no matter what happens it will be something you can look back on and feel good about. At the very least show mercy to your kid's mother. 

One thing I will say is I would not even offer the possibly of continuing the marriage without the promise from her of IC. Again this is a character issue and just because it hasn't shown up recently doesn't mean it won't when a similar situation arises. Meaning a situation where it is easier and more beneficial in the short term to lie. She shows very definite short term thinking. 

Now under the guides of a counselor I would then inform the children. They have a right to know. It would probably be better if you did this as a couple no matter what you decide. The biological fathers have a right to know as well, as unfortunate as that can possible become if they should decide they want a relationship with their biological child. It may end up being a positive thing. This will also give you the ability to pursue adoption. 

I can't believe I am staying this but I agree with Quality to a certain extent. I am not sure that having 3 children unmarried with 3 separate men is that much different with just one man. In the sense that you were willing to take on what most men would not be. The ongoing lying to you and her children even to the point of allowing them to feel pain from it is pretty monstrous though. She needs some hardcore IC.


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## Quality

When I said "sanctify her" this is what I meant:

Husbands Sanctifying Role in Marriage


Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## Quality

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Quality I think you misinterpret the whole problem here and therefore your solution doesn't address the problem.
> 
> Yes there is a huge difference between marrying a woman with kids and being lied to about the past and the kids parents, and the fact that the kids were conceived under false pretense. To ignore that and pretend that OP has to accept the past and kids simply because they preexisted the relationship is not logical and is disingenuous
> 
> I don't think of kids as baggage, personally. I believe lying and manipulating men for their sperm are indications of a person with baggage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He doesn't have to accept anything. It's a free country and he can divorce her if he wants.

I don't necessarily believe she was out to manipulate men for their sperm. None of us {including OP} know what her motivations were. She probably doesn't have a lock on them either {which is why she needs some counseling here too}. She had a three-year relationship, got pregnant and wouldn't abort the baby and the baby daddy took off. Then she {typically} went through a series of men that were apparently bad choices. 21 to 24 year old single women with children don't exactly attract the highest quality men. I don't know what she was thinking but I'm guessing she wasn't a very decent self-respecting person at that time and wondered if anyone would ever love her. HOWEVER, she DID continue her education and though it took her 10 years by the time she was around 28 years old and her children were around 7, 5 and 4 she walked the aisle a college graduate. She also around that time met our OP and he dated her 2 years before they got married around 2011. She didn't "trap him" by getting pregnant or anything during those 2 years. They did it right, getting married and then, around 2012 having their first baby together, then 2 or 3 years later their next and finally the infant this past year sometime. These were ALL planned pregnancies with the OP.

This wife is now 36 years old, the apparent competent mother of 6 children with a college degree. It's sad she lied and felt the need to lie and felt the need to keep this lie going all these years (from around 2009 until now). But I'm not going to pretend she's still some 21-24 year old sperm stealing woman or that she was that woman when the OP met her when she was 28 years old. The OP was entitled to the truth all along {well, at least, sometime before he married her}. It's a legitimate reason to be angry and upset. It may or may not be a justifiable reason for divorce {biblically} but, like I said above, he's free to divorce her if he wants to. However, if he's NOT gonna divorce, how he handles this situation could have long-lasting ramifications on his marriage and family. He can take a negative path of retribution, continued anger, resentment, shame and self-righteousness OR he can take a positive path of righteous anger, repentance with Godly sorrow followed up by forgiveness and sanctification. 

His choice.


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## EleGirl

vandason said:


> I can envision her 3 kids having to pry that information from my wife. She said she knows their names and could contact them. I don't want them to have to go through the pain of having to search for their various fathers and be hurt. Or perhaps one father is more accepting than the others, hurting the other kids. Her kids have this false story in their head of "their father" and what really happened, because my wife lied to them and everyone else.
> 
> Especially the oldest. He is 15 and thinks that his father was around for the early part of his childhood, same with the middle child though she doesn't talk about it much. The middle child is the most "ok". Then the youngest, has gone through many periods of jealousy and resentment because "their father" left before birth and she didn't have the opportunity to "know" her dad.
> 
> I remember a conversation with my wife's youngest. She asked if her dad had ever held her, and the answer was no because he left before she was born. Then she said, "but he held my siblings?" which the answer (lie) was yes. Followed by "why didn't he want me, what did I do wrong and why wasn't I good enough".
> 
> The oldest has held resentment over the youngest because she "caused" his dad to leave. For years those two hated each other because one "had" what the other wanted and one "ruined" what the other thought they had.
> 
> All 3 of them have asked what their dad looks like. I don't know who my wife has described, if it's bits and pieces from each man or some made up character. It's not just that she lied to me and that MY marriage has been a lie. It's that she is lying to everyone and her kids have been living a lie since the moment they were born.
> 
> My wife needs to tell them the truth, but then they - like me - have their world pulled out from under them and their life feels like a lie. Divorce or not, I wouldn't abandon the older kids. Legally might be a different story. Normally I don't distinguish them as her kids or our kids. They are just our kids, we have 6 kids. 6 kids live in my home, call me dad and will be my kids until the day I die. Divorce or not, I'd want to adopt them. I've wanted to for years and would have long ago if my wife would have told the truth.


You are right that the children will have a very hard time dealing with the truth since they have been lied to. 

We adopted my son when he was 10 days old. I read several books on adoption. Every one of them said not to build a fantasy story. Some adoptive parents never tell their children that they are adopted. What happens is that the child grows up in a world where everyone but them knows the truth. Then one day, usually in their late teens they find out the truth. And that throws them. It really messes with their heads. 

Because of this, we told our son about his adoption from the very beginning. Once he was in his 20’s I offered to give him the info about his birth parents and even help him look them up. It was a closed adoption, but someone forgot to redact their names on the legal documents, so I have their names. His reply was that he does not care who they are. He has parents who he loves. 

We hear a lot about adopted children wanting to find their birth parents. But the truth is that most actually do not care about who their birth parents are. Boys seldom look for their birth parents. Girls are more likely to look for their birth mother once the girl (woman) becomes pregnant. But overall, most adopted kids do not care to find their birth parents.

While you might not have adopted her children legally, you are their father. And I truly hope that she allows you to adopt them. It will give them some stability in this situation that they need. And I think it will give you some stability that you need too.

I think that the two of you are going to have to work with counselors to come up with how to tell the three children the truth. Maybe a gradual reveal might be better than just laying it all on them at one time. But let a counselor help you. The 15 year old will most likely have the hardest time with it. The truth is that he is the one that you know for sure was out and our rejected by his birth father. That’s a hard pill to swallow.

Also be ready for some really hard questions. Kids can think some deep thoughts about these things. While my situation is very different from yours, I’m going to share with you some of the questions that my son came up with when he was about 5/6 years old. 

One day he angrily asked me why I bought him. He went on about how buying and selling people was illegal and he was angry that he was sold. I had to calm him down and explain to him that we did not buy him. We did spend some money to adopt him. But the money went to pay his birth mother’s medical bills, and then the pay for the time and effort put in by the adoption agency and lawyers.

Another question he asked that really shock me had to do with us telling him that this birth mother was a high school girl who could not take care of him. Her parents were elderly and could not help. So, she wanted him to go to a family who could give him a good life. So, he asked if we loved him so much, why didn’t we just give all that money to her birth mother so he could have stayed with his birth mother. I had to explain to him that her issues were not just about money. 

Those are just two examples.

If a 5/6-year-old can come up with these types of questions, I can only imagine what older kids will come up with.

Her kids have a father, that’s you. What knowledge can be the thing that pulls them through this. The stability that you provide will be very important.

Get a counselor involved. You had the rug pulled out from under you. I'll bet that a good counselor will have a much tell harsh way to inform them of the truth.


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## jld

EleGirl said:


> Another question he asked that really shock me had to do with us telling him that this birth mother was a high school girl who could not take care of him. Her parents were elderly and could not help. So, she wanted him to go to a family who could give him a good life. So, *he asked if we loved him so much, why didn’t we just give all that money to her birth mother so he could have stayed with his birth mother.* I had to explain to him that her issues were not just about money.


Wow. That is some profound thinking, Ele. Amazing it came from a 5/6 year old.


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## Quality

TheTruthHurts said:


> Also twisting this into a quest for "purity" is a true straw man argument. It dismisses the OP's ACTUAL position and replaced it with a simplistic 1 dimensional notion that you specifically mock as though OP is on an unreasonable quest
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have no idea what the OP's quest truly is, I can only speculate off of what he's shared with us to this point. One of his apparent issues he seemed to have a problem with was the fact that she lied about the number of sexual partners she had. Turns out instead of 3 relationships culminating in the 6 year {from age 18-24} relationship with the lied about baby-daddy, she had the 3 relationships but the 3rd one ended much sooner and she was single from age 21 until age 28 when OM met her.

Did she indicate she'd only had 3 partners ever {and none since bady-daddy abandoned her supposedly in 2005 before the third child was born and 4 years prior to meeting the original poster}?

Did it turn out to be 20 sexual partners instead and did they end in 2005 and then she has remained abstinent from 2005 until she met the OP and started dating him?

I don't know what to what level this part of the lie bothered OP but he included it in his first post and I thought it seemed a bit disingenuous that he'd date {and have sex himself with} a 28-year-old never married woman with three children and an IUD and be so significantly bothered to some degree {to the apparent point of considering divorce} that she was less sexually {or mentally} pure than he thought. 

What I'm getting at is the OP might be being a little hypocritical judging his now ex-wife's previous sexual immorality while completely oblivious to his own sexually immorality {premarital sex with his now wife}. I KNOW his objections are mostly about the lies, but based upon his behavior {dating, having premarital sex with and marrying a woman with 3 young children}, it would seem "purity" wasn't a priority to him. Objecting now ~ upon discovery of her being some measure less "pure" than originally believed, seems a bit hypocritical.

I'm not saying the OP is some kind of jerk. God bless him for marrying this woman and for taking on these children as his own and he, AGAIN, deserved much better. I'm certain this hasn't been easy for him, working and putting a roof over all these children's heads. I just want him to take responsibility for his own choices here and realize no one forced him or tricked him into marrying this woman and having children with her. Maybe things might have been different had she told him the truth but I believe it wouldn't have made a lick of difference as God has his reasons for bringing these two people together and God doesn't make mistakes. His wife made a big mistake not telling him and keeping the lie going but marrying her wasn't a mistake and their children weren't a mistake.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## Quality

TheTruthHurts said:


> Please reread OPs posts. You are off base here. W specifically tried to get pregnant from some guys and specifically didn't tell them. Literally they were only sperm donors.
> 
> OP specifically talked about her sexual history and she provided a very specific sexual history that was only a few guys.
> 
> So all of your advise is off base and you are making stuff up about OP pursuing purity
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In my opinion and maybe I'm the only one that feels this way~

There is very little difference between dating and then marrying a 28-30 year old woman with 3 children born out of wedlock that claims they were all conceived in a relationship with one father she never married versus an assortment of men she never married. 

There is very little difference between claiming she only had 3 sexual partners and having 20, ESPECIALLY, when the OP is willing to himself engage in premarital sexual intercourse with her.

We also don't know the OP's sexual history. If he's only been with 2 or 3 partners himself, then, perhaps, his uber-offence to this deception is more justified whereas, if he's had 20 sexual partners himself, at least some apparent portion of his unsettledness MAY be hypocritical. 


My "solution" wasn't to exonerate his wife. Just adding a perspective he may not have considered and HOPING he can go about working this out in a most helpful manner {because he's got 3 very young kids with her and it just doesn't make sense to divorce/leave her over this}. They are "one flesh" and biting her head off over this big transgression is not going to make things better in the long run. She's "his" now ~ warts and all ~ her warts are his warts. Man up and deal with it versus lamenting the past and things he can't change.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Also, V, make sure you understand you do not need counseling. You can get it if you want, but don't let yourself be convinced your are evil, a mean person, a bad parent or broken because it was in the past. Simply put, even YOU don't know what would have happened if she told you the truth. You can say right now what you would do when you are mad, but you very well might have said "I do not care" and you wouldn't be posting on TAM. She told a fundamental life altering lie to change her station in life, no matter what anyone says or any reason giving. No, it isn't right. 

Also, there is NO TIMETABLE on forgiveness or if it must be given. You've been together 8 years, married six and people are saying you owe her something for taking at least a weekend to make a decision. 8 years of a lie versus THREE DAYS of processing where you stand. You see the ridiculousness of this logic right? Don't be fooled into thinking you must work on any timetable, if you choose to stay in the marriage and work on this issue. Don't be fooled into thinking you must rush back so, you can be more confused when she puts on the full court press to get you back. Take the time you need and make a decision best for YOU. Yes, I said it. If you are going to be a miserable guy, who feels trapped, you need to leave so you don't mess up those kids lives. If you feel you can get through it, THEN she needs to get individual counseling and you can decide if you both want family or marriage counseling. 

Again, I am not saying to divorce. There is a ton more to "Just the kids" which doesn't always include staying together. As to exposure, it really isn't your job to do and I wouldn't do it because it feels vindictive and revenge filled. Yet, I wouldn't lie to protect a liar. So, if my parents or someone very close asked, "Hey the Kids said you left for a while." I'm not lying to my parents or other very close people in my life.


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## vandason

Quality said:


> There is very little difference between dating and then marrying a 28-30 year old woman with 3 children born out of wedlock that claims they were all conceived in a relationship with one father she never married versus an assortment of men she never married.
> 
> There is very little difference between claiming she only had 3 sexual partners and having 20, ESPECIALLY, when the OP is willing to himself engage in premarital sexual intercourse with her.
> 
> We also don't know the OP's sexual history. If he's only been with 2 or 3 partners himself, then, perhaps, his uber-offence to this deception is more justified whereas, if he's had 20 sexual partners himself, at least some apparent portion of his unsettledness MAY be hypocritical.


There is a large difference. 

A woman who had three planned children in a long term, loving relationship. 

VS.

A woman who sought out two dozen random men with the intention to get pregnant without their knowledge. 

Or, 

A woman who views sex as something special and bonding, and limits herself to sex in a few, select long term relationships. 

VS.

A woman who seeks out men solely to have sex, has unprotected sex with a couple dozen men and participates in Friends With Benefits and One Night Stands. 

They are not the same type of women. 

My decision to have "premarital intercourse" is irrelevant. That does not mean her entire past is erased. Nothing about my sexual history has been said here, because it's irrelevant. I am not sitting here having a pity party because my wife has a list of 20-some men instead of 4.


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## Andy1001

vandason said:


> There is a large difference.
> 
> A woman who had three planned children in a long term, loving relationship.
> 
> VS.
> 
> A woman who sought out two dozen random men with the intention to get pregnant without their knowledge.
> 
> Or,
> 
> A woman who views sex as something special and bonding, and limits herself to sex in a few, select long term relationships.
> 
> VS.
> 
> A woman who seeks out men solely to have sex, has unprotected sex with a couple dozen men and participates in Friends With Benefits and One Night Stands.
> 
> They are not the same type of women.
> 
> My decision to have "premarital intercourse" is irrelevant. That does not mean her entire past is erased. Nothing about my sexual history has been said here, because it's irrelevant. I am not sitting here having a pity party because my wife has a list of 20-some men instead of 4.


You are very angry right now and you are fully entitled to be but can I ask you to think about one thing before you do anything in regards to your wife and family that you may regret.
If your wife had behaved as she did but never had her first three children would your opinion of her be the same.If the answer is yes then you may not be able to stay with her.If the answer is no then it is the children that is the problem in your eyes.They are the visible proof of her deception and will be a constant reminder of it.I disagree with a previous poster,you need individual counselling no matter what path you decide to take because this is nightmare scenario with no obvious solution.


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## vandason

Andy1001 said:


> You are very angry right now and you are fully entitled to be but can I ask you to think about one thing before you do anything in regards to your wife and family that you may regret.
> If your wife had behaved as she did but never had her first three children would your opinion of her be the same.If the answer is yes then you may not be able to stay with her.If the answer is no then it is the children that is the problem in your eyes.They are the visible proof of her deception and will be a constant reminder of it.I disagree with a previous poster,you need individual counselling no matter what path you decide to take because this is nightmare scenario with no obvious solution.


I'm actually not that angry right now. I'm still mad, don't get me wrong, but I'm not as pissed as I have been. 

I don't care who the kids' father's are. The kids and my wife are separate in this. I married a woman with three children, that wasn't hidden. I love and accept those three children. I don't care who their father(s) is/are. So yes, if my wife had the same past but wasn't able to conceive my opinion would be the same. 

It's not that she had sex with 20-some men. It's that she intentionally got pregnant. It's that she lied to man after man to get pregnant. It's that she didn't care about STD's or her own health. It's that she didn't care that she was stripping a father's rights away. It's that she didn't really care about the human lives she was creating. It's the selfishness. The stupidity. It's that I find it hard to respect a woman who can make those choices, and follow them through for 15 years.


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## Quality

vandason said:


> There is a large difference.
> 
> A woman who had three planned children in a long term, loving relationship.
> {fornication}
> 
> VS.
> 
> A woman who sought out two dozen random men with the intention to get pregnant without their knowledge.
> {fornication}
> 
> Or,
> 
> A woman who views sex as something special and bonding, and limits herself to sex in a few, select long term relationships.
> {fornication}
> VS.
> 
> A woman who seeks out men solely to have sex, has unprotected sex with a couple dozen men and participates in Friends With Benefits and One Night Stands.
> {fornication}
> 
> 
> They are not the same type of women. {yes, they are}
> 
> My decision to have "premarital intercourse" is irrelevant. That does not mean her entire past is erased. Nothing about my sexual history has been said here, because it's irrelevant. I am not sitting here having a pity party because my wife has a list of 20-some men instead of 4.


Your sexual history is not irrelevant, to the extent you have a plank in your own eye. You are measuring her sins, previous to your relationship, which technically became irrelevant on your wedding day, as worse than others and saying they make her now {and then} an awful scornful woman unworthy of your love when they are, all, in fact, pretty equal sins.

And your sexual history is relevant as a measure of just how hypocritical you are being. If you've not had casual sex, sex with random women, one night stands or friends with benefits ever, then you've got more justification for your upset and to have righteous anger; but, by your own admission you aren't completely sinless here. I'm also not trying to upset you or attack you or your character. I hoping to demonstrate to you how maybe your choices to go outside of God's plan for YOUR OWN life might have affected your decisions and choices to get involved with such a {formerly} promiscuous woman. 

Finally, I wanted to point out that you aren't likely to fix anything by attacking her {your own flesh and blood} over this. Instead, I HOPE to encourage you that the best course to actually getting what you seem to want {an repentant and honorable woman/wife} is by leading by example yourself by being a respectful, honorable, loving, kind, forbearing, faithful, gentle and forgiving husband. Her past is the past. Neither you nor she can change it. Either learn and grow from it or not. 

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”* 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:25-33 (NIV)
*​*


2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?- Romans 2:1-4 (NIV) ​

Life by the Spirit:
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. - Galatians 5:13-26 (NIV)​ *


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## Mostlycontent

Quality said:


> Your sexual history is not irrelevant, to the extent you have a plank in your own eye. You are measuring her sins, previous to your relationship, which technically became irrelevant on your wedding day, as worse than others and saying they make her now {and then} an awful scornful woman unworthy of your love when they are, all, in fact, pretty equal sins.
> 
> And your sexual history is relevant as a measure of just how hypocritical you are being. If you've not had casual sex, sex with random women, one night stands or friends with benefits ever, then you've got more justification for your upset and to have righteous anger; but, by your own admission you aren't completely sinless here. I'm also not trying to upset you or attack you or your character. I hoping to demonstrate to you how maybe your choices to go outside of God's plan for YOUR OWN life might have affected your decisions and choices to get involved with such a {formerly} promiscuous woman.
> 
> Finally, I wanted to point out that you aren't likely to fix anything by attacking her {your own flesh and blood} over this. Instead, I HOPE to encourage you that the best course to actually getting what you seem to want {an repentant and honorable woman/wife} is by leading by example yourself by being a respectful, honorable, loving, kind, forbearing, faithful, gentle and forgiving husband. Her past is the past. Neither you nor she can change it. Either learn and grow from it or not.
> 
> 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”* 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:25-33 (NIV)
> *​*
> 
> 
> 2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?- Romans 2:1-4 (NIV) ​
> 
> Life by the Spirit:
> 13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
> 16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
> 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
> 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. - Galatians 5:13-26 (NIV)​ *


*


You make some great points, Quality, and since I share your faith, I get it. Having said that, there are degrees involved. Saying someone who has had limited sex is the same as someone who had been a prostitute, for example, is not the same thing. Stealing a candy bar from the convenience store is not the same as robbing a bank. Technically, they are both stealing but they are not the same thing. I don't believe they are in God's eyes either.

Now I'm not referring to cardinal and venial sins, as the Catholic's believe. I don't label things quite in that way but if man can tell the difference and punish accordingly then how much more so can God. 

I've always believed that a man wants to feel special by his wife. Finding out that she's had many partners before him, when that was not known prior to marriage, makes that rather difficult. I think OP needs to understand the "why" involved so that he can understand and empathize with his wife. In that way, he can begin the forgiveness process.

Sounds like his wife became sexually active at a rather young age, which indicates to me that there were some problems in the home or perhaps even a bad relationship with her father. These things are typically related. If OP can understand all of that then maybe it would make some sense to him. Not that he would condone it but that he could maybe understand and begin to move forward. I have always believed that first comes understanding, then empathy and then forgiveness.*


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## sokillme

I think OP has indicated many times that his biggest problem is with her lying you guys keep making it about the sex. It's about her character and how she could just use the fathers like sperm donors but also lie to her own children to their detriment. He has said the amount of partners doesn't bother him that much so can we deal with the lying, and the premeditation of getting pregnant and not even bothering to tell the fathers. It's that she is the kind of person who can lie for years and years and seemingly not feel guilty. Making up an entire fictional background and do it all the while with a straight face, even to her own children. That has got to throw anyone. How can he believe anything now. His whole marriage was built on lies. Not an easy thing to come back from. 

I am not sure why arguing about semantics really matters anyway OP is going to feel how he feels telling him not to feel that way, or that he is jerk for feeling that way isn't going to help fix the problem. 

I suggest some serious IC and some time apart until you cool down. But you still need to see your children. 

"Oh what a tangled web we weave".


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## Thor

vandason said:


> I'm actually not that angry right now. I'm still mad, don't get me wrong, but I'm not as pissed as I have been.
> 
> I don't care who the kids' father's are. The kids and my wife are separate in this. I married a woman with three children, that wasn't hidden. I love and accept those three children. I don't care who their father(s) is/are. So yes, if my wife had the same past but wasn't able to conceive my opinion would be the same.
> 
> It's not that she had sex with 20-some men. It's that she intentionally got pregnant. It's that she lied to man after man to get pregnant. It's that she didn't care about STD's or her own health. It's that she didn't care that she was stripping a father's rights away. It's that she didn't really care about the human lives she was creating. It's the selfishness. The stupidity. It's that I find it hard to respect a woman who can make those choices, and follow them through for 15 years.


I'm glad you're calming down.

Your last paragraph there is pretty bad. It is probably fairly accurate as to who she was at the time. But, nothing you've written about her since you met her indicates that is who she has been during your relationship. Aside from the lies about it she has been a responsible, caring mother and wife.

You can, and should, be angry at the lies. You have every right to find her previous behavior unappealing. Had my ex-W told me the truth about her past when we were dating I would not have continued in the relationship. When I did learn more about her past, after 30 years, I really wondered who she was. It did take quite a while for me to not feel disoriented.

I believe you need to talk this out with her to find out what she has been thinking all this time. I think you'll find some distorted or dysfunctional ideas in her mind as the result of childhood or adolescent experiences. But, all the years you've been with her she has been consistently a very different person than who she was before that.

I think the next steps in processing all of this is to try to achieve some understanding by both of you of what the other is thinking and feeling. MC is where I would do it.


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## EleGirl

sokillme said:


> I think OP has indicated many times that his biggest problem is with her lying you guys keep making it about the sex. It's about her character and how she could just use the fathers like sperm donors but also lie to her own children to their detriment. He has said the amount of partners doesn't bother him that much so can we deal with the lying, and the premeditation of getting pregnant and not even bothering to tell the fathers. It's that she is the kind of person who can lie for years and years and seemingly not feel guilty. Making up an entire fictional background and do it all the while with a straight face, even to her own children. That has got to throw anyone. How can he believe anything now. His whole marriage was built on lies. Not an easy thing to come back from.
> 
> I am not sure why arguing about semantics really matters anyway OP is going to feel how he feels telling him not to feel that way, or that he is jerk for feeling that way isn't going to help fix the problem.
> 
> I suggest some serious IC and some time apart until you cool down. But you still need to see your children.
> 
> "Oh what a tangled web we weave".


V has clearly stated that even if she had not become pregnant, her sexual past alone is a big issue to him. 



vandason said:


> There is a large difference.
> 
> A woman who had three planned children in a long term, loving relationship.
> 
> VS.
> 
> A woman who sought out two dozen random men with the intention to get pregnant without their knowledge.
> 
> Or,
> 
> A woman who views sex as something special and bonding, and limits herself to sex in a few, select long term relationships.
> 
> VS.
> 
> A woman who seeks out men solely to have sex, has unprotected sex with a couple dozen men and participates in Friends With Benefits and One Night Stands.
> 
> They are not the same type of women.
> 
> My decision to have "premarital intercourse" is irrelevant. That does not mean her entire past is erased. Nothing about my sexual history has been said here, because it's irrelevant. I am not sitting here having a pity party because my wife has a list of 20-some men instead of 4.


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## EleGirl

This thread reminds me of a study that my ex husband did when he was in medical school. We had a high school here that was exclusively for pregnant girls, about 100 of them. At that time pregnant girls were not allowed to attend regular high school.

I helped him with the study. We came up with a questionnaire, the girls answered and I tallied it. To a number, every single one of those girls said she got pregnant because she thought it would make her boyfriend love her more. All but one of the boyfriends had long since dumped their pregnant girlfriend. Yet all of them thought that once he saw that baby, he would fall back, madly in love with her and the baby. It was clearly a school full of young girls who had issues.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Just take what you need from the posts because there is good information out there and quit defending your moral beliefs. It is rare to get 100% belief on this issue and it will just keep going in circles. The cherry picking is getting absurd. Still, do not punish your kids and wife by keeping them in limbo forever. Take your time and if you can forgive her, then move on, but don't be a jerk.


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## Be smart

vandason said:


> She was nervous about getting pregnant and wasn't happy when she had the positive test, she was scared. I remember her saying that she wanted to do it right that time and wanted me to be supportive and involved in the pregnancy and afterwards.


She knew her Life was a mess. She knew she ***d up. I am not looking for excuses but maybe she was naive and stupid at that age,maybe she did drugs,drink alcohol who knows. 
Most important thing is that she changed when she started dating you. She wanted to have a better Life. This was her "second chance" to have a good Life with a good Man. 

Do you think it is coincidence that she gave you 3 Kids ??? She wanted you to have more,much more then any other Man in her Life before. 

OP you asked questions like did my Wife ever loved me,was she looking for stability or something like that. I can understand you,but you know answers to those questions better then me. 
I am a Man and belive me I am looking for stabilty,safety in my Partner too. This means a lot to me. 

From what I learned she dated you for 2 Years before getting Married to you. She never looked at another Man. Never gave you a doubt of her fidelity. She speaks with respect about you. She tells you she loves you. 
Before this Big Lie your Marriage was perfect. Is this worth of Divorcing her ??? My opinion is not,but I am not in your shoes. 

Stay strong.


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## Haiku

TheTruthHurts said:


> Run. She lacks morals and character and intentionally got pregnant probably to trap guys. She trapped you by lying.
> 
> It seems like a long time but trust me it isn't. I'm >35 years into a relationship. You've just started
> 
> Get the f out.
> 
> If you want to date her after you D and start a NEW relationship based on truth, that's up to you. But this one is fubar and you're the sucker raising kids from some random dudes NSA f fest.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This type of reply is why I avoid these forums anymore. I'm appalled at this. 

TheTruthHurts, you may be a decent person, but to blurt out this type of advice after 24 minutes of the op is not just reckless it's dangerous. 

I hope there is a disclaimer as we sign up here that warns new members this site is awash in non-professional advice givers none of who are qualified to tell others what they should do. And to read each contribution with a critical eye and consult advice from a professional or a trusted known friend before making any profound life decisions.

Good god.


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## phillybeffandswiss

This is the fundamental flaw in TAM and many boards, morals and ethics are not the same for everyone and it isn't about fairness. He is neither morally, religiously, socially or ethically wrong in how he feels. Just like no one else is in the way they think. The problem arises when you start trying to passively insult, denigrate and call him names because he doesn't believe the way you do.

People stopped giving advice and started right fighting which helps no one.


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