# Feeling stuck.



## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

This is your WIFE? You recognize she is basically having an affair right under your nose and that’s cool as long they keep it away from your house? Did I read that correctly?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

WOW!! she has the gaul to ask you not to police but she is clearly continue to be sneaky and if she is not cheating yet she will...the boundaries are getting to close...your marriage is crowded


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

Sort of. I don't think they're having sex, but they're definitely closer than I'd like. I don't see any need for opposite sex friends, and have found that it can lead to trouble even with the best of intentions. She agrees in principle with this, except as concerns the Dude... To be clear, I'm not OK with it, I'm livid about the whole thing. I'm just trying to figure out if there's a dark horse of a chance to be able to manage the situation until it runs its course, or if an ultimatum is called for, or if we're possibly past even the ultimatum stage and I should just pack my things and go.


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

Crowded is a good way to put it - that's the feeling I have for sure. Boundaries creeping across one another resulting in crowding.


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## Shiksagoddess (Jan 20, 2011)

Whoa. Lots of issues here, but it boils down to one thing: she is having an affair without your permission. It might be emotional, or physical, but face it, she is cheating on you. Manipulating you. Putting your daughter in the middle. Worst of all, she is completely disrespecting you and your feelings, which you seem to have made perfectly clear. You have given her more than enough chances to end things, and instead she had lied, laughed at you, and done what she wanted.

" ... sometimes talking on the phone several times a day, some days not at all. Sometimes she goes out for drinks or a meal with him, and says little or nothing about it unless I ask. For a while, when the Dude first came back around, she was also sending him naked pictures ..."

Oh, hell to the no. **** no. I feel somewhat certain you would not have agreed to that.

"and also told me to quit “policing” her. He proposed to her again end of last year." 

What the ever-loving ****? He proposed to a MARRIED WOMAN? And she had the brass ovaries to brag about it? Frankly, she lost all rights to ask you to stop policing her the moment she sent pictures of her naked to him.

What to do ... what to do ...

When people tell you who they are, you really should believe them. You say love her, but really, who is she? Do you realize you are in love with a serial adulterer, a liar, and manipulator? Someone who has absolutely zero respect for you? Someone who blames you for her infidelity?

You stated: "I've had about enough of this situation...that’s starting to matter less to me as time goes on." There's your answer.

Google the marriage 180. It will not make her stop cheating, but it will change your reaction to it.
Get your ducks in a row. See a lawyer and find out what your rights are.

I don't even know you, but even I know you deserve better.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

My apologies for skipping a lot of your post and the replies that followed so far so I'm sure I am repeating stuff....


There IS A BIG WORRY - naked pics to the Dude is so out of bounds its not even funny.

Your wife has to stop ALL CONTACT and as of yesterday for you to even considering staying in the marriage with her.

I'll go back and catch up on the reading now.

good luck.

_____

Ok, read the rest now and you do have a right to be concerned.

Sounds like the only thing that can be done by you right now is to file for divorce from your wife to hopefully snap her out of the affair fog.

You can always stop the divorce later but you need to do something drastic now in order to get your wife's attention.

Do the 180 and stop all contact with your wife except for dealing with the kids.

See a lawyer and file for divorce as soon as you can.

Protect your assets and it may be helpful to have a Voice Activated Recorder on you at all times to protect yourself and get some back up.

Sounds like you don't even need to search for evidence.

Good luck.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your wife is dating her old boyfriend... what are you going to do about that?? If you allow this continue, you will be a cuckold with only yourself to blame, and you need to be willing to lose her to possible save this. She is completely disrespecting you and your marriage. What are you waiting for??


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Why would you want to be married to someone like this. Even just the sending nudes, followed by insisting on her privacy would be enough for me to cash in my chips. Do you have some kind of open marriage or something, that makes this somehow acceptable? Or did you cheat on her at one point? God knows what she _hasn't_ told you, in the interest of privacy.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Why would you want to be married to someone like this? Even just the sending nudes, followed by insisting on her privacy would be enough for me to cash in my chips. Do you have some kind of open marriage or something, that makes this somehow acceptable? Or did you cheat on her at one point? God knows what she _hasn't_ told you, in the interest of privacy.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

It sounds like an affair to me, if not, its certainly spiraling towards one soon. Check any infidelity forum. That's the main reason women have affairs, they looooove the attention, then to keep the attention they eventually or quickly throw in sex. She is disrespecting you big time by allowing this guy back into your lives and then turning it on you (BTW typicaly cheater tactic). 

I wouldn't pack your bags, I'd pack her bags. Otherwise, they will be boinking on your marital bed while you sleep on your friends couch. I don't think there is a chance in hell, she will be able to remain monogamous to you. Look at her history and her current actions. She craves attention like a drug, get your ducks in a row as they say.


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

You have been heard! You ARE NOT CRAZY! 

Your Wife IS CHEATING on you! 100% it is an emotional affair complete with dates. with a 99.99999% likely hood it is physical!

Now knowing that... IS THIS A MARRIAGE YOU WANT TO SAVE????

If you don't think this marriage is worth saving, protect yourself and your kids & FILE FOR DIVORCE!

If you want to save this marriage, you have been going about it the wrong way, and unfortunately show her weakness... and she has taken advantage of what she has perceived as weakness. Saving your marriage, means taking control and doing what is right for you and your family, not necessarily what you want and definitely what she wants. 

One thing you need to remember, there is no right to privacy in marriage... it is a privilege and one she shouldn't have anymore.

If so...
Lay down the law 100% him or you! 

If she chooses him.... FILE FOR DIVORCE!
If she chooses to keep him as "Friend"... that means she chooses him... FILE FOR DIVORCE!
If she says she cant choose... that means she chooses him... FILE FOR DIVORCE!
If she needs time to think... that means she chooses him... FILE FOR DIVORCE!
If she begins to call you names and or blames you... that means she chooses him... FILE FOR DIVORCE!
If she does anything short of outright choosing you... that means she chooses him... FILE FOR DIVORCE!

If she chooses you, her marriage, and her family...
She drops him, sends him a No-Contact "NC" Letter (you approve), NEVER has ANY contact with him ever again. 
If he continues to drive by the house your wife MUST file a harassment report with the police and if you so determine get a Protection order.
She MUST give you 100% access to all her mobile devices (including car if it has a smart system), social media, & emails. With your email being set as the back-up/password recovery contact for all accounts. Also if you ask she must provide you access to her Facebook and Google history files (available on line).
She MUST provide 100% accountability of her relationship & answer truthfully EVERY question you ask. and if you feel she is lying she MUST agree to a polygraph.

I know I am missing a ton of stuff but its a start.


I will let the TAM Vets take over, from here....


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

Now that i got my long post out of the way... 

Personally, if I were you... I would file for divorce ASAP! I would expose it to family and her close friends. I would go for physical custody of my children during the divorce process. And I wouldn't look back.. She would need to change to a level that from your post i don't believe is possible for her. she would need to be the safe partner i wanted and deserved.. not the rude, disrespectful, controlling, ***** she is right now.

There are plenty of good women just dying for a good man to love them! she isn't one of them.


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

She was sending him NUDE photos of herself. When confronted she gets mad and says to stop policing her. She goes out for drinks and meals with this guy and will not answer any questions about it. . Your wife IS having an affair. She also has no respect for you. She thinks she had you wrapped around her finger.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

SeaDoug is 100% correct!!!

If you want to save your marriage, you need to tell her that she needs to write a no contract letter to him and tell her that after she sends the letter, the next time they are in contact you will be filing for divorce

That way she can get all the affirmation from him she wants!!!

There can be ZERO wiggle room on this!!!


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

Your wife doesn’t sound like a very good partner. She is giving you too much stress. I don’t know how you have managed so far, it must be very difficult. I think you should get her into marriage counselling.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

BS are typically a few weeks or months (sometimes years) behind the WS activities or despite confidence from surveillance, etc. only knows 1/3 to 1/2 of what's going on. It goes like this:

If you have a hunch something's going on, then it's been going on for a few weeks or months.

If you think they haven't yet had sex, then it's already taken place. 

If you think the physical part started, but was limited, then they've been at it regularly to semi-regularly for a while now 

If you think it has ended, then it they've cooled it off a little or found other ways to proceed.

If you think you are in reconciliation, then you're probably between DD-1 and DD-2. 

Best to assume the worst, believe no one and go from there. I call it expectation, disappointment and truth management. If you accept the worst, the pain is the same, but the shock value is diminished, but most importantly you would come to the realization that you will never believe the words coming out of the WS mouth. That right there will allow you expedite your path to truth and proceed with your next steps as it will be solely on what's real. 

Quite as it's kept, BS are often in a denial fog also and it's intended to lessen the shock of what's happening. So to buffer the pain from the reality, they allow themselves to believe the WS, who denies and minimizes. So, if a WW says it only happened 2-3 times, the husband seemingly 90% of the time, buys it and then says, "and I believe her", to top it off. The WS battle to stave off denial is a real one. 

Just a few observations of undeniable trends and common behaviors for you to ponder as you come to grips with what you think is happening versus what is happening. Lastly, there will be lots of posts on here telling you what you should do. This opinion often varies and sometimes many are on the same page. 

The area where there is a consensus among posters and where they are often spot on is the predictable behaviors of the cheaters. This is where you want to pay very close attention to. You may find reading your wife's projected or behavior as unlikely, but what you don't know is that she is a cheater, manipulator, and a liar and with that comes a behavior pattern that is just like every cheater, manipulator and liar on earth. 

The sooner you come to this conclusion, the easier it will be for you to move forward with your response. Disbelieving or hesitating will leave you susceptible to further confusion, non-action and being gas lit. Allow yourself to wake up to what she is at this present time.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

If you want to play hardball, file now and have her served at her work. 

You can stop the process at any point, but she will get the message of just how serious you are about the dude and her behavior!


As the saying goes, you have to risk your marriage to save your marriage! 

Good luck


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

She's F'ing him. You just haven't caught them yet.


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

b


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

You are starting to see the light. Would you have it in you to keep quite about all this and start investigating her activities? Your wife has earned your distrust. Find out for sure what she’s up to.


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## kgcolonel (Jun 28, 2018)

I am full agreement with the others...I am not sure if you're ready to do what it takes to get out of the situation or not but clearly she has no respect for you or your Marriage. The response to her should be IMO you are free to continue interacting with "The Dude" but as a single mother. 

You don't say much about the financial earnings etc, do both of you work and is there parity in your wages? The sooner you come to your senses on what this actually is, the sooner your life becomes better either through MC or through being able to seek a wife who will respect you. 

Also, a side note, she'll be a lot less attractive to "The Dude" if she's bringing along a child everytime she wants to "hang out". I would suggest you bring up the topic of a polygraph if she becomes overly defensive on whether or not they've been having sex (if that detail is even important or key to you at this point.) You might also begin to check the bank account to see if she's been withdrawing abnormal amount of funds possibly to support him. Just my thoughts....thanks.


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

kgcolonel said:


> You don't say much about the financial earnings etc, do both of you work and is there parity in your wages? The sooner you come to your senses on what this actually is, the sooner your life becomes better either through MC or through being able to seek a wife who will respect you.


We both work, but I earn roughly 95% of our income. For what it's worth, if this doesn't play out in a way that leads to us staying together, I'm not looking for a wife, or even a partner... nothing longer than a week or so for at least a long while...


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> when I was calling her, he (allegedly) told her to get home, her husband was worried about her.


He probably did tell her that after he got his rocks off and was ready for her get her clothes on to leave.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Is this for real?

I cant believe that you would accept this state of affairs. I would say to her that either she ends this relationship completely, or you will end the marriage. You then must mean it. 

Unfortunately this is what you get for marrying a woman who thought there was nothing wrong with dating 6 men at once. Then she has the cheek to get mad if you go out without her. Unbelievable. We all know what she would do if you had a close female friend who you were going out with, she would go crazy. 

It may be a good idea for you to take yourself out some evenings. Don't tell her where you are going, or where you have been, just go. Even if you just drive around or go and see a film, it might make her think. 

Also DON'T let her blame you in anyway, its NOT you its HER. She has no concept of being faithful, no boundaries with men and no integrity. Is this the woman you want to stay with???I am sorry there is a child involved, but I cant see what choice you have when she refuses to see anything wrong with cheating.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> We both work, but I earn roughly 95% of our income. For what it's worth, if this doesn't play out in a way that leads to us staying together, I'm not looking for a wife, or even a partner... nothing longer than a week or so for at least a long while...


If this is true,your whole story not just this post, then at the risk of being banned may I say this.
You sir are a ****ing idiot.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I’m sorry, but I read you posts and I get angry. Angry at her for being a disrespectful piece of ****. And angry at you for not really doing anything about it. I would be making it very uncomfortable for them to meet if not impossible. 

Hope you told her parents and other important relatives what she is doing? 

Have you made it impossible for them to get together? Like not being around to babysit when she wants to go out. 

Thought of showing up when you think they are out together.

Have you said either he goes, or the marriage is over?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> I haven't cheated on her by most definitions, and we don't have one of those modern open marriage situations. In the interest of disclosure though, there are some mitigating circumstances. She has a LOT more sexual experience than I do, about which I've felt some insecurity. Apart from pretty standard bedroom behavior, we've gotten up to a couple of shenanigans together - very tame stuff for her, completely new for me - details probably aren't important, but other people were involved by consent of all...
> 
> A few months back, I wandered into a bikini bar alone and chatted up one of the go-go dancers there. I was feeling underappreciated, and - frankly - this seemed more immediate and less likely to result in actual infidelity on my part than going on the prowl at a singles bar. This didn't go anywhere past that 45 minute evening, no physical contact, etc. None of that is meant to excuse my actions, but it's an explanation. Shortly after she found out about this is when the business started with the Dude. I was willing to cut her some slack when it first started, but I'm running thin on patience; how long a sentence should I serve for that crime? I suppose she could have left me when that happened, but I thought we had more or less worked through it.
> 
> ...


Once you bring others into the marriage, which you both did together, things often go downhill. Something special and important has been lost. Also, if a man I was married to went to a bikini bar and spent the evening chatting to a go go dancer I would be pretty mad as well. It seems you both need to grow up to be honest, you have a child to think about.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

So your wife was dating a married man whose wife was pregnant, and you are surprised she's cheating.

I mean, she showed you who she was while you were dating.

Of course she's cheating.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

She's not marriage material. She dated 4-5 guys at once and still likes the thrill of dating.

Shes shown you nothing to believe otherwise.

She's an attention and flirt addict. And a crummy wife.

I doubt she can change without an extremely radical awakening.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

kgcolonel said:


> The response to her should be IMO you are free to continue interacting with "The Dude" but as a single mother.
> 
> I would suggest you bring up the topic of a polygraph if she becomes overly defensive on whether or not they've been having sex


^^^^ This.

Your marriage sounds like no way to live. You're out on a date with your wife and she's chatting up other men. I've been there, a wife acting crappy like that when she's with you leads to a lot of misery, resentment, regret. Stand up for yourself and tell her to end this behaviour or end the marriage.


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Once you bring others into the marriage, which you both did together, things often go downhill. Something special and important has been lost. Also, if a man I was married to went to a bikini bar and spent the evening chatting to a go go dancer I would be pretty mad as well. It seems you both need to grow up to be honest, you have a child to think about.


I wish I could disagree, especially about your second point. I'm not at all proud of my actions that evening, and doubtless that contributed to her recent actions. Right now, I'm trying to figure out a) whether what we have is worth saving, and b) how to go about it if so. I definitely get that I've contributed to the current state of things.

I appreciate all the comments and perspectives.


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

Please do not think that you having a conversation with a girl in a bikini for 45 minutes is the same as what she is doing. she is using that as some sort of moral equivalent to justify what sounds like at least one full blown affair. Dude, it was a bad choice on your part yes. But it doesn’t even compare.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

No wife would be better than what you have.

Read up

https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Wow....

Colingrant is right about BS denial.....and it is something that you are clearly caught up in right now.

You really need to wake up and ask yourself what the h*ll you are doing here.

There is probably a zero percent chance this is not a full blown PA......

This POS until recently was actually picking up and dropping off your WW at your own home?!!!

And you were OK with this?.......And instead of immediately putting an end to this scumbag having ANY contact with your WW and family (and you already KNEW he was exchanging naked pics and had asked your WW to leave you and M him), you sat there feeling guilty for investigating WTF was going on?

What are you doing here OP???

Your only demand so far has been that POSOM not pick up your WW from your home??!!!!

I know this is a 2x4 but you have got to wake up here and stop letting your WW carry on an A right in front of you AND your kids!!!

Expose the A tonight and tell her to leave to her parents or another family member’s place.

File for D ASAP......and do not relent until she comes completely clean on what she has done, has gone 100% NC with this POS, and is begging you to reconsider ending the M


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

This is probably one of the most incoherent posts ever on TAM. My advice is to get divorced. You are not dealing with reality as she is having an affair under your nose. Next you go flirt with a go go dancer? Both of you need help in the form of IC. Get it ASAP.


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

c


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

This nonsense is going to continue until you take action a demand an end to it....or kick her to the curb.

Get yourself out of infidelity now!


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

No. I don't think that you as a man have what it takes to get out of infidelity, That's why you "hate your life". You know that you're just being a weak, passive man that lacks self respect, and the fortitude to be able to act like a man and do what any strong self respecting man would have done right from the very start: serve her with divorce papers and ghost her completely.

You'll just continue, wolloping in self pity, and making weak passive aggressive demands that have no teeth to it, eventually just accepting being a chump. That's what it looks like from your posts. If you take the time to read others in the infidelity section you'll see quite a few of others OPs that are/were just like you. You'll see your reflection looking back at you as you read.


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

Well, the good news is, if you hate your life you can change it. Start today.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You are her doormat.

Time for divorce. Don't let fear of what might happen cause you to do nothing about this.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> As I type this, she's out "taking a walk". She slunk out the back door after we had a fight over my response to something she asked me about. Her adult daughter called and asked how to know whether you need stitches; she'd cut her finger on a knife. She told me what she'd answered, and I said something to the effect "I've always looked at it this way, but your answer is great". She heard that as "you don't know what you're talking about", accused me of being elitist, blah blah blah. Then she slipped out the back door. Phone records say she was texting the Dude several times, then a brief call. I try to call her, she sends me to voicemail. She sends me a text saying "I'm taking a walk, we can talk when I get home.
> "
> 
> She's been out for 2 hours, I'm sure she'll stumble home somewhere between soon and a couple hours from now, without much to say for herself.
> ...


Your life is up to you. No one else. You have another man in your marriage and you by your actions are accepting it. What did you think would happen?

This ends when you decide you've had enough. Stop the doormatish behavior.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

You tried the passive way and learned that it didn't work (we all could have told you that). Stop with ultimatums or voicing displeasure, if she respected you she wouldn't be doing this. I think there is very little chance she is not effing this guy... 

Now, you have one choice left, go nuclear. Ball up and file and be ready for it to go either way. If she goes along, well there is your answer, your marriage was done regardless. If she pleads for you, you ply the truth out of her and then make a decision. Either way, you are in control. Right now she has all of the control.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

You realize if it wasnt for the money and the kid she would have left you for the dude already, right?

She is not going to respect you more that you respect youself.

End this.


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## 100%Texan (Jul 5, 2018)

Geez, grow a set already


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> As I type this, she's out "taking a walk". She slunk out the back door after we had a fight over my response to something she asked me about. Her adult daughter called and asked how to know whether you need stitches; she'd cut her finger on a knife. She told me what she'd answered, and I said something to the effect "I've always looked at it this way, but your answer is great". She heard that as "you don't know what you're talking about", accused me of being elitist, blah blah blah. Then she slipped out the back door. Phone records say she was texting the Dude several times, then a brief call. I try to call her, she sends me to voicemail. She sends me a text saying "I'm taking a walk, we can talk when I get home."
> 
> She's been out for 2 hours, I'm sure she'll stumble home somewhere between soon and a couple hours from now, without much to say for herself.
> 
> I hate my life.


You do understand that during her "walk" he drove to pick her up and they were together - not walking.


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

d


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

The thing she got mad about was just her picking a fight so she could have an excuse to leave and go be with him. Your wife thinks you are an idiot.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

I hate to say this, but what it gonna take for you to file?

I know that you’re going through hell, and I wish you nothing but the best. But you are the one that is in control of the situation if you want it.

You can continue living with this woman that you know is cheating on you, blatantly! Or you can decide to get out of it

Good luck


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Rodeo, fellow recovering doormat here.

I, along with the others here are trying to figure out what it's going to take for you to file for divorce? Listen, I have been where you are, maybe not to the same obvious extent as my STBXW did a wondrous job of fooling everyone and have some pretty sophisticated schemes to deflect suspicion and blame but in my gut I knew all along.

Even when I knew in my gut what was going on, I looked at myself in the mirror and asked myself what it would take to save this marriage, to save this family. Was it going to be me playing what is know known as the pick-me dance. I became superman at home, I tried to do everything, everything she had led me to believe I wasn't doing but the target was changing daily. If I did this, I was wrong, if I did that it was wrong and she had me changing my tail.

Then I went on to read books, join seminars, buy programs and try to figure out what was going on, on my own. Was this a MLC, was this an exit affair, was she a wayward wife, walkaway wife, what. I had myself spinning in circles and couldn't figure out why I was making NO progress with her. I figured I could outlast the affair, she would come to her senses soon, she wouldn't do this to her family.

I was wrong, she would and she did. By the time, I even started to wake up, it was too late, heck it was too late even weeks into their renewed affair (had one with each other in 2009). 

While it sucks beyond all belief, is not fair, is not right and seems so illogical, irrational, etc. She's gone, her mind is gone and instead of being her partner that she should have a lot of memories with. YOU are the obstacle standing in her way of happiness. It really can get a lot worse from here and you will see a side of her that you could never have expected. 

What's ironic is that you feel stuck. My original post on this forum back in October of last year was that i was STUCK. It feels like we are stuck because we have nowhere to go to save the marriage. You press on by being 'tough' and you drive her away. You be nice and adoring and you still drive her away .... STUCK. Well, the only path to getting unstuck, is doing what feels horrible but inevitable. You have to see a lawyer and see one ASAP. Get the divorce process started and learn your rights with all aspects and DONT leave your house. When a love is gone like this, you can only let them go. It's the biggest favor you can do for yourself and your family. The person you once knew, is gone, most likely forever and that sucks, the human emotion sucks sometimes but it is what it is.

There's no saving this, not with what she is doing, what she is saying, etc, etc. Time to give her what she wants so you can eventually get something you want again.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> For a while, *when the Dude first came back around*, she was also sending him naked pictures; from looking at the phone records, I pieced together what was happening there. She admitted it, and promised to stop, and also told me to quit “policing” her. He proposed to her again end of last year.


Good grief. Did it not occur to you way back when you found she was sending naked pictures to him, that hey, they might be having sex? *Of course they're having sex!* And you allowed this contact to continue after that, right under your nose. Are you really that afraid of divorce?

Friend, you need to start respecting yourself and stop taking this humiliation. See an attorney, make an exit plan, and start the divorce process. Put her out of you bedroom and implement the 180 to detach. Then see how she responds. Let us know. There's still a small chance you can save your marriage if you take this advice and she sees the light.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Holy ****, are you blind?

_Of course_ they’re ****ing.

If you seriously can’t see that then you’re _at least_ naive, if not something far worse.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> Yeah, that's what I figure. She came home around 1 AM, drunker than 4 hours before. In the morning she claimed that she hadn't had anything else to drink while she was out, though she was throwing up and super hung over, and was at her (female) friend's house. She was on the phone with the female friend until she'd been out for about an hour though, and with the Dude in the first few minutes after she left. In the morning, all she told me about was being at the female friend's house; at minimum, there's an hour or more unaccounted for, probably waiting for and hanging out with the Dude.


You are one of the best examples of a doormat that I have seen. You make excuses for her, say you see whats happening, and then do nothing. Its very hard to read posts like yours, as we see that only decisive action will get you out of infidelity.

You have to show her that you are willing to lose this marriage, *NOW*!

*I fail to see why you believe this shame of a marriage is worth saving.*

1. *File now and have her served as soon as possible*. Divorce can take a long time. Watch her actions to see if she is worthy of being offered reconciliation.

2. *Start separating funds now.* Get her off of life insurance, will, retirement, credit cards, checking, etc.

3. *Start practicing the 180 technique NOW!*

4. *Have yourself checked for STD's* and let her know you are doing this. You have to set a tone that you are serious.

5. *I would DNA test* your child. Once again, it sets a tone.

6. _*Expose*_ to friends and family about her actions.

7. *Read* "No More Mister Nice Guy". PDF online.

8. *No sex *with her till this is settled, PERIOD!

9. *DNA your child*. Again, it sets a tone. You are serious about this.

10. If you are serious about saving your marriage, *you better convince her by strong, courageous, decisive actions.* Otherwise, your marriage to this cake eater is over. 

11. Like I say, I don't see why you want to save it, but you had better start listening to the advice on this site or just prepare for the worst. *You are the one allowing this infidelity to go on.*


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

NotMyFirstRodeo, how much more abuse are you willing to take? Do you need to catch them in the act?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Indulge us my man and give us a list of 3 reasons why youre better off with her than without her.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> Yeah, that's what I figure. She came home around 1 AM, drunker than 4 hours before. In the morning she claimed that she hadn't had anything else to drink while she was out, though she was throwing up and super hung over, and was at her (female) friend's house. She was on the phone with the female friend until she'd been out for about an hour though, and with the Dude in the first few minutes after she left. In the morning, all she told me about was being at the female friend's house; at minimum, there's an hour or more unaccounted for, probably waiting for and hanging out with the Dude.


No actually, I assure you that she did not wait for him for one second. When she called him, he left that second, picked her up and they started screwing, that is what happened....


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

You know when you touch a door knob you are touching eveything else any other hand on that doorknob has touched, right?

You need to be checked for sexually transmitted diseases (STD's).

ETA: Btw, Door Knob is just a metaphor for another man's penis, which has been in your wifes opening.

Good luck.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Sounds like you're gonna hang on and just talk about it until she dumps you. Why?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

You guys put the D in dysfunctional


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> Rodeo, fellow recovering doormat here.
> 
> I, along with the others here are trying to figure out what it's going to take for you to file for divorce? Listen, I have been where you are, maybe not to the same obvious extent as my STBXW did a wondrous job of fooling everyone and have some pretty sophisticated schemes to deflect suspicion and blame but in my gut I knew all along.
> 
> ...


All this is eerily familiar; it's a fairly cogent description of the hell I'm living right now.


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

e


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> All this is eerily familiar; it's a fairly cogent description of the hell I'm living right now.


This is where you'll stay without taking any action. Talk will get you an extended stay.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I love her? 

Or the imaginary woman you have conjured up that wouldn't be ****ing her boyfriend?


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

f


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> I love her?
> 
> Or the imaginary woman you have conjured up that wouldn't be ****ing her boyfriend?


Fair point. At the risk of seeming as naive as I might actually be, I know that she's having/had inappropriate relationships, but I don't know she's ****ing any of the guys in question. It's definitely possible, and I'm not willing to give her the benefit of too much doubt, but at some point it's hardly material - apart from concerns about my own sexual health, which I'm aware of and handling. 

No question, I'm not willing to perform any "grand gestures" she's indicated that she requires to save this marriage; in fact, I'm not going to lift a finger for it. For the moment, I'm willing to work with her to create a new reality between us, if such a thing is possible.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

First up buddy you got a learn how to be a man she’s walking all over you how do you live with yourself.? Stand up and be a man that’s only thing a woman respects and you do not resemble anything near strength. No one would respect you the way you act. Women despise weakness. Buddy that is exactly what you have been in this marriage.! You are a weak man, she shows you absolutely No respect. There’s no repairing this (nightmare of a situation) learn to be a Man then divorced this POS wife she is definitely one of the worst I’ve heard on here. And your weakness makes you not much better. The whole situation is it lost cause... at least take the advice of what these people are telling you. I don’t know why i get my blood boiling with frustrating and anger after reading so many post like this one.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Nothing is possible with her boyfriend in the mix.

I'm not sure if you're naive or just in denial.

Most betrayed spouses will live in denial. From what I've seen it's a coping mechanism that justifies their unwillingness to take any action.

A paralysis if you will.

Nothing much will change until you wake up. Once the betrayed starts taking action they will normally see/realize the marriage is over and start moving on or the wayward realizes the game is up and makes the necessary changes to regain what they've lost or ends the marriage as well. 

You are the one keeping yourself in limbo. Your wife can't do it.

Playing the waiting game or "pick me dance" just ensures you a much longer stay in limbo than is necessary. It's really self inflicted. You deep down know what's going on.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> No question, I'm not willing to perform any "grand gestures" she's indicated that she requires to save this marriage; in fact, I'm not going to lift a finger for it. For the moment, I'm willing to work with her to create a new reality between us, if such a thing is possible.


Women like your wife (based on you description, imo) live on a continuum of relationships, based on her (their) needs.

It's a continuum of Happy/intrigued/attracted/aroused/secure.

It's important to identify and isolate the place you reside on that continuum, and what she is needing, or she will pass you by.

You dont like that? It's the kind of girl you married.

Not gonna play? Then enjoy limbo in a cuckold paradice, move on, or be abandoned. 

She is not yours, she is just yours for now.

My guess is that her old boyfriend makes her moist enough to melt her thong.

You are in such denial, despite your claims to the contrary.

He is exciting, dominant in bed, she is attracted to hm, and has a history with him.

Often guys like him don't really have much else going for them. They are just players in every area of life.

She was atracted to you, you were stable, good earning potential. In other words, good marriage material.

She dove in with you, but like someone swimming at the bottom of the pool, she has to come up for air.

To be happy she needs a dose of what her ex has.

This IS who she IS!!!

Not gonna lift a finger?
Then its a tug of war between her competing desires.

Is she ok with having the ex as a sidepiece? 

Who knows. 

She hasn't moved to make him her main squeeze yet.

Her disregard and disrespect for you are stunning.

My guess is she can't believe you are passively accepting everything she is doing.

Both of you have a tipping point. She is supprise yours isn't even on the radar yet.

Have you ever been bullied, or emotionally abused?

You are "not going lift a finger" (i.e. no grand gesture to fix this)? 

Seriously, the passively of that statement is truly troubling.

Infidelity is unlike any other problems in a marriage, and the correct strategy is so often counter-intuitive.

Mainly because of the shift in loyalty, abandonment of personal morals, and corresponding level of dishonesty on the part of the Wayward Spouse.

You are not just part of the solution to a problem of "your needs versus her needs, or respect, or validation, or comfort, etc", you are the problem, your very presence is the problem, and they resent you for just being there. 

It's a no win, and any attempt to do the things that would normally improve a relationship, like communication, consideration, etc., only make it worse.

I think it's already to far gone. You have let the relationship bleed out on the battlefield for want of action.

You can't expect her to respect you more than you respect yourself.

Good luck.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Rodeo,

You seem overly tolerant of your cheating wife? Question... have you cheated on her in the past?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

notmyfirstrodeo said:


> i don't know she's ****ing any of the guys in question.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Great post badmemory, 

OP is definitely still in denial.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

My Lord! I just can't comprehend the existence of so called men like the OP. What's happening to men nowadays?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> Honestly? Can't come up with 3. The kids come to mind, though I know they're better off without a home in the kind of disharmony we seem to be capable of lately. The only other one I can think of is the (likely unrealistic) hope that we can come up with a better way of being together than what we've been doing. I imagine that this would require far too much change on her part. So, basically my list of 3 reasons amounts to bubkes, and I'm left with simply this: despite myself, I love her.
> 
> That's literally the only reason I've hung in here as long as I have trying to make things better and hoping that something would work. You're seeing me at the very end of that process, I'm pretty sure.


I truly hope that you are at the end of the process. I hope that some of the advice that you are getting will spur you on to reality. 

I don't think that any clever thing that I say will help get you there. But her goes...

So many of us have been where you are, loved someone that did not love us, or not the right way. I have been there. 

What you cannot see right now, is how different life can be with a partner that actually loves you. You don't understand is and you cannot see. 

The thing you have got to realize is that LOVE does not hurt you like your love for her hurts you. It makes you a fool, it makes you disrespect yourself, eventually it makes you hate yourself for what you have become. 

Listen I have love lots of women, to various degrees, but when you actually find one that loves you like you love them it is like the sky opens up and now you can see the sun in a different way. 

There is nothing in the world like it, and guess what, it does not hurt.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> All this is eerily familiar; it's a fairly cogent description of the hell I'm living right now.


You're in hell because you choose to stay there. This woman has played and is continuing to play you for a fool. What kind of lesson are you teaching your kids by letting your WW treat you like third class citizen in your own home?

You sir are a human ATM machine to her...nothing more.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"At the risk of seeming as naive as I might actually be, I know that she's having/had inappropriate relationships, but I don't know she's f***ing any of the guys in question. It's definitely possible, and I'm not willing to give her the benefit of too much doubt, but at some point it's hardly material - apart from concerns about my own sexual health, which I'm aware of and handling. 
"

Ok, seriously YOU DO KNOW SHE IS BANGING the other guy. She sent him NUDES? She is CONSTANTLY meeting/talking/texting him -- Dude, REALLY PLEASE understand that she IS having sex with him. MOVE YOURSELF out from this woman -- she is toxic, NOT AT ALL who you thought, and not worth your time. Go nuclear, expose like crazy, etc..
IF YOU REALLY need proof, get a PI.


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## NotMyFirstRodeo (Jul 3, 2018)

g


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

I really hope this works out for you but I’m pretty sure it won’t. Good luck to you sir.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Rodeo,

There's more of chance that O.J. was innocent, than your wife not having sex with this guy (or other guys). It would be so easy to catch her if you would just make the attempt. But I honestly think you're afraid of finding that smoking gun because then you'd have to deal with it.

So, basically you're telling her; just start behaving or else. Well, she my behave for a little while but it won't last. But if you have the balls to divorce her for leaving the house too much, at least you'll be better off all the same.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Serious question.....
Are you enjoying this???


If you see serious about all this, and you don’t see what is going on right in front of you, schedule a polygraph test for her!!

I think just her reaction to telling her about scheduling it would tell you all you need to know


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> 4 1/2 hours out Tuesday night, said she was at her (female) friend's house the whole time, and expressed regrets about worrying me, etc., probably only half sincere. Peaceful for the most part Wednesday (the 4th) while she was hungover. We went to a friend's place to barbecue and watch fireworks. We got cross with each other again during the fireworks, then peaceful Thursday during the day.
> 
> She disappeared twice Thursday after picking a fight, early evening for a couple hours ("taking a walk in the park"), then back for a few minutes and gone for a couple hours ("downtown with (female) friend").
> 
> ...


This is far too passive a method of establishing no contact. It’s the worst kind of chicken**** half measure, and it won’t work in the long term.

Either she gets direct with him — on speakerphone with you present — or it’s time to pull the plug.

She should also understand — and accept — that you WILL be checking up on her. She doesn’t need to know when or how, and you’d be naive to share that info with her. After all, people who KNOW they’re being watched tend to alter their behavior.

And if she keeps bucking and braying at the thought that she has to be willing to go above and beyond in order to re-establish even the barest amount of trust necessary to maintain a marriage...

Well, again, time to pull the plug.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You my friend are a fool for punishment. She won't have to make any phone calls with you out of the way. It'll be bang time


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> This is far too passive a method of establishing no contact. It’s the worst kind of chicken**** half measure, and it won’t work in the long term.
> 
> Either she gets direct with him — on speakerphone with you present — or it’s time to pull the plug.
> 
> ...



THIS ^

You're all but holding the door open for her to keep doinking this guy. He will be laughing at this and she will see you as weak and he as the winner. Do you want her to keep carrying on with him? I would have already given her the boot for the complete lack of respect or even common courtesy she has for you.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You have to step up your game. She will likely go underground with the Dude. If all you are doing is checking phone records that is sad. All it take is a request to her girlfriend to come over while you are gone and she can use her girlfriends phone to contact him - no phone records for you.

Or she can get another phone you don't know about (like she has done before).

At least get a couple of VARs. One for the house and one for the car.

Can you track her phone's location? That would at least verify her location when she disappears.

She is having sex with the Dude and they will continue because now they know all you are doing is checking phone records. So many ways to get around that.

She wants to handle the breakup with the Dude because she doesn't want to hurt his feelings? And you went along with that?

But hey, put the blinders back on and good luck with that.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> You're in hell because you choose to stay there. This woman has played and is continuing to play you for a fool. What kind of lesson are you teaching your kids by letting your WW treat you like third class citizen in your own home?
> 
> You sir are a human ATM machine to her...nothing more.


Exactly. My comment was doing to be "She is not into you". 

Clearly she is shopping. Shopping by going backwards, by going forwards, looking for male company that isn't you.

She has it really good too. Contributes 5% of the income, spends the rest.

OP, please try this experiment. Take everything away from her. Do that by telling her you are done with her behavior and will be talking to an attorney (but here's the thing, you don't actually need to do it, just say you are doing it). Give her zero concessions. Don't ask her any questions about her whereabouts. Go to the gym, hang with guy friends. Be VERY STONE COLD. Dismissive. Turn yourself into somebody that's not a sure thing anymore.

Watch what happens.

Likely, she will notice, and she will suddenly get very complicit and affectionate and wonder where you are going. She'll get worried her entitled little bratty life might be in jeopardy, and her paycheck. She will start sucking up to you. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. Don't chase her. Instead, be unavailable and uninterested. And disapproving.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Okay, just read your last post, OP. You went about 1/3 of the way you needed to go. Started strong and ended weak. 

LISTEN TO ME. I was in a very similar position to you 6-7 years ago. She had a long time friend, platonic, and then fell in love with him (they never even dated/f*cked like yours did in the past). I caught the feelings before it got physical, which is the direction it was heading. I didn't speak to her for 3 days, while being in the same house. She slept on the couch. I then told her she needed to write him a no contact email, copying me, ending the "friendship", or I would file for divorce.

Let me tell you, I'm not that kind of guy typically. It took everything I had to say those words to my wife of 15+ years at the time. Someone I knew and loved my whole adult life. But I f*cking did it, and it saved everything.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Gaslighting cake eater....


She is banging this guy and is watching your response. She wants to "handle" it so she can figure out if an exit strategy is necessary from you. Also, she is changing tactics to hide the affair and probably keep feeding the beast. 


Stop paying for this. Take her off ALL financials. Remove the F-ing phone. She wants one. She can get one HERSELF. Start with an attorney. She is biding her time to get what she wants from you. And you can bet "dude" is feeding this to her. Remember, he went through this Sh*t show not to long ago. He is a learned fighter. 

I say you are right and can do SOOOO much better.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

NotMyFirstRodeo said:


> She doesn't want to hurt his feelings, etc.


Game over man. Your WW is protecting OM.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

i would file if only to show her that you are writing the narrative not her. Right now you are allowing her to dictate the term and that is total BS and for you to accept that makes you weak.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She cares more about her boyfriend's feelings than she does you or her marriage. 

It's over pal. She's gone. Gone gone gone. 

Stick a fork in it and show some self respect. Kick her out and file for divorce.


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## bluelily (Jul 10, 2018)

This is like Stockholm syndrome. You're not stuck, but I think it's the low self esteem which makes you afraid of making any move.
Respect yourself by leaving this relationship, you worth FAR more than this kind of treatment.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Time to cowboy up.

I had a similar situation some years ago. Wife was showing all the signs of an affair or at least pursuing one. The kind gentleman that was texting and calling my wife was found and I confronted him first, then her. Very clearly she was told that she could date all the men she wanted but she could not be married to me at the same time. I may or may not have also threatened him. That ended.

More recently my stbxw was in contact with an exbf that she live with prior to me. I snooped, put two and two together and she will now be an ex wife. 

I will literally lose the ranch and a lot of money. But I don't care any more. Should have nutted up and done it sooner to save years of the same kind of **** you're in.


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## smi11ie (Apr 21, 2016)

You should expose her and file for divorce.


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