# What is wrong with me?



## Hoosier

This is NOT a cry for help, I am not desperate, but am very interested in trying to understand me!

Background: I am 58, divorced 7 years after a 36 year relationship (dated 5 years during high school and college married 31) that ended when she had an affair and ran off with the AP. I was devestated! Thank God I found TAM just before it happened (googled "my wife doesnt love me anymore") when I was looking to repair my marriage. 
Since my divorce I have had three relationships, all really nice women, the first lasted 6 months, second 2 years and third 3 years (I ended in June). I was very clear that I did not want to get married, and the truth be known, I wasnt sure I even wanted a relationship. My third relationship (call her Martha) was great. We were as compatiable as two people can be. We enjoyed the same music at the same level, she loved my family and they loved her, she never complained about anything we did and was a real trooper. Sex was great, and she was always willing (which is very important to me, as a 30 year marriage, where you get turned down 80% of the time will make a guy sensitive to this). She however could sense that I wasnt totally committed and that created stress, always wanting to know where I was, always checking on me and I had to explain where and what I was doing. I got tired of the scruitiny (sp) and finally broke it off. Its been almost three months and I miss her a lot. And surprisingly not the sex part, but all the fun we had. In fact a week ago I had a date with a very nice woman, we went to hear some live music (a favorite thing of mine) had a great time laughing and joking.......and the whole time I was thinking how much more fun it would be wih Martha. 
I have considered getting in touch with her but dont want to do so unless I am more committed than before. I guess it comes down to....when I was younger I had the goo-goo eye type of love for my x. I was sure she was the ONE for me, I was TOTALLY committed, never cheated during our 30 plus year relationship. I dont find myself feeling the same way now. 

she didnt trust me, and honestly, her radar was spot on, I didnt want to committ incase the perfect one came along. Today I am considering going to her home and talking with her (hell, I have been considering this for over a month, but its getting stronger not less, I thought it would go away, it isnt.)

Question: I dont want to go back unless I can go all the way, otherwise not fair to her. I think thats what I want, but....... I dont even know what to ask you.....how about some input may help me figure it out. Interested in others experiences.... this post really sucks about as clear as mud, I dont know if it makes sense or not......... help.


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## Elizabeth001

Have you kept in touch with her or was the break up bad?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Question: *I dont want to go back unless I can go all the way, otherwise not fair to her.* I think thats what I want, but....... I dont even know what to ask you.....how about some input may help me figure it out. Interested in others experiences.... this post really sucks about as clear as mud, I dont know if it makes sense or not......... help.


Then don't... you are right that it would not be fair to her and to lead her into the unknown would not be kind in any form.

What is wrong with being alone for awhile and just being a nice date?


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## aine

You have been on the market for quite a while (7 years), your divorce didnt just happen, you should be well grounded now and know exactly what you want and what you do not want.

1. what do you want?
2. Do you think you will find someone better than Martha?
3. Are you happy to have casual relationships, non committed relationships going into the future?
4. What did Martha want? Maybe she also doesn't want a serious committed relationship


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## Yeswecan

The real question here is....Martha has not found another since you broke it off?


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## sunsetmist

So, what would 'the perfect one' be like? Since "We were as compatiable as two people can be" wasn't enough. Limerence had diminished after three years or was it never there.

Feelings and insight at 58 should be different than that of one in HS and college. I've not read your other thread, but you were betrayed and your ability to trust changed. 

Martha recognized you weren't completely invested and that led to serious issues. Obviously, YOU were not perfect either. How would you feel if you discovered that Martha had found her 'perfect' man and moved on permanently?

No answer to your non-question. Just musing here.


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## Hoosier

thanks for the replys

the breakup was ok, in that there was no yelling, screaming, I just told her that I was ending it and basically walked away. No contact since.
@Buddist.... Nothing at all wrong with being on my own. Just that after three months, I miss her more and wondering if I didnt make a big mistake.
@aine

"You have been on the market for quite a while (7 years), your divorce didnt just happen, you should be well grounded now and know exactly what you want and what you do not want.

1. what do you want?
2. Do you think you will find someone better than Martha?
3. Are you happy to have casual relationships, non committed relationships going into the future?
4. What did Martha want? Maybe she also doesn't want a serious committed relationship"

1. Thats the problem... I am a 58 year old guy and cant figure out what I want....what a looser.
2. Not personallity wise. She is not unattractive at all, but honestly not the type that I would normally be attracted to initially. 
3.I thought I would be, but as it goes along, not so sure.
4. She wanted a committed relationship. Did not pressure for marriage, or even living together, just committment. I found that a hard thing to do. And she knew it.

sorry I dont know how to insert your questions..... so just cut and pasted.


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## Hoosier

Yeswecan said:


> The real question here is....Martha has not found another since you broke it off?



figured it out kinda....lol

I am not sure. I am ready for it if she has not stopping me from finding out. My reluctance has to do with my wanting to be clear in my own mind what I want.


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## Rowan

Basically, you've become the guy with commitment issues who is emotionally unavailable for a new relationship. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way, as long as you don't feel it's negatively impacting your life. There's no problem with having commitment issues unless they're making you unhappy or you're hurting other people with them. As long as you're honest with your partners, don't take advantage of anyone else, and are okay with how you are, then you're golden.

However, if you've decided that you have reached a point where your commitment issues are making you unhappy and you're tired of being that way, then it might be time for some professional help. A therapist may help with working through some of the issues that you're now starting to feel are negatively impacting your life. It may be that you eventually reach a point where you're no longer plagued by commitment issues. Conversely, you may reach a point where you're no longer bothered by having them. Either option is entirely valid.

But, please don't get into any more relationships, especially not with Martha, unless you can be entirely 100% honest about the level of commitment you can actually offer. Don't string women along with hopes that one day, if they're 'enough' in some/every way, you might be willing to actually commit. Know yourself well enough to understand the level of commitment you're capable of giving, and be honest enough with yourself and your partners to tell them what you can and cannot offer. Be prepared for some women to eventually leave because of the lack of commitment. Also be prepared to leave yourself, if you sense a woman may be harboring false hopes about a level of commitment you can't give. You may find, though, that your level of (non)commitment actually works well for some women, who might have similar reservations of their own. But the bottom line is that you need to be totally honest - *in word and in deed* - with the women you see and with yourself.


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## Evinrude58

You have to tell her what your thoughts are. You deserve as much time as you need to make up your mind if she is the one or not. She also has the right to tell you you're taking too much damn time and if she wants marriage, she can look elsewhere.

There is ALWAYS going to be someone out there that is more beautiful, more compatible, more fun, richer, has nicer things, smarter, etc., etc.
You have to keep this in mind. My thoughts are this: If you decide you really like one, you make the decision as to whether or not YOU want to make HER the one that you have the BEST relationship with--- and you choose to be loyal to your lady and to your own choice. 

Myself, if I had that much fun with her and she was so great, I'd damn sure track her down and let her know how I felt--- both ways. That you really like her but you aren't sure you want to marry her YET. Tell her if she wants a time frame for your decision, tell her how much time you need. If you don't know, then you aren't ready for marriage period. If you do, then make up your mind and go with your decision.

Are you stupid for letting a woman like you describe get away? Yeah, probably so. But you were NOT stupid for not marrying her if you weren't ready. Doesn't sound like you are. 

My advice: Go look her up and ask her if she wants to date a little while longer. If she's moved on, fine. If not, there you go. Neither of you should feel rushed to get married, especially since you know what can happen already.

Nothing is wrong with you. YOu're just more experienced and getting married is probably a pretty stupid thing to do period if you don't want kids with the person, legally anyway.


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## Hoosier

sunsetmist said:


> So, what would 'the perfect one' be like? Since "We were as compatiable as two people can be" wasn't enough. Limerence had diminished after three years or was it never there.
> 
> Feelings and insight at 58 should be different than that of one in HS and college. I've not read your other thread, but you were betrayed and your ability to trust changed.
> 
> Martha recognized you weren't completely invested and that led to serious issues. Obviously, YOU were not perfect either. How would you feel if you discovered that Martha had found her 'perfect' man and moved on permanently?
> 
> No answer to your non-question. Just musing here.


Thanks for you insight...

LET ME BE CLEAR. I know the problem is ME, I dont fault her at all for her feelings, understand them completely. I am definitely flawed! check out the title of this thread.

As for her finding another, I wouldnt like it, but would completely understand. The fact that she may is probably why I decided to post this thread, I want to figure out what I want why I cant "pull the trigger" Listen, I own my own business, have for 30 years. I am not rich by any means, but I live pretty good, take multiple trips a year, no real money issues.


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## Hoosier

Evinrude58 said:


> You have to tell her what your thoughts are. You deserve as much time as you need to make up your mind if she is the one or not. She also has the right to tell you you're taking too much damn time and if she wants marriage, she can look elsewhere.
> 
> There is ALWAYS going to be someone out there that is more beautiful, more compatible, more fun, richer, has nicer things, smarter, etc., etc.
> You have to keep this in mind. My thoughts are this: If you decide you really like one, you make the decision as to whether or not YOU want to make HER the one that you have the BEST relationship with--- and you choose to be loyal to your lady and to your own choice.
> 
> Myself, if I had that much fun with her and she was so great, I'd damn sure track her down and let her know how I felt--- both ways. That you really like her but you aren't sure you want to marry her YET. Tell her if she wants a time frame for your decision, tell her how much time you need. If you don't know, then you aren't ready for marriage period. If you do, then make up your mind and go with your decision.
> 
> Are you stupid for letting a woman like you describe get away? Yeah, probably so. But you were NOT stupid for not marrying her if you weren't ready. Doesn't sound like you are.
> 
> My advice: Go look her up and ask her if she wants to date a little while longer. If she's moved on, fine. If not, there you go. Neither of you should feel rushed to get married, especially since you know what can happen already.
> 
> Nothing is wrong with you. YOu're just more experienced and getting married is probably a pretty stupid thing to do period if you don't want kids with the person, legally anyway.


thanks for the reply... I see your post often and appreciate your insight.

She never ever pushed for marriage. I am not ready and dont think I ever will even if I feel like I am ready. Keeping dating as is not really an option....we did that three years and it was time to move up a level or move on..... I thought I would move on easily, I enjoyed the extra freedom for like two weeks, but now not so much. I could get all the sex I want but that doesnt even appeal to me.....


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## Hoosier

I would paste the link from my original post...but not sure how to. Its called "Cant believe I am posting here" by my then name (before the change fiasco) Hoosier.


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## Evinrude58

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> thanks for the reply... I see your post often and appreciate your insight.
> 
> She never ever pushed for marriage. I am not ready and dont think I ever will even if I feel like I am ready. Keeping dating as is not really an option....we did that three years and it was time to move up a level or move on..... I thought I would move on easily, I enjoyed the extra freedom for like two weeks, but now not so much. * I could get all the sex I want but that doesnt even appeal to me*.....


that's how it was for me as well. 

I found a good woman that I thought had good values and that I really liked and I married her. I'm pretty happy. I love her more every day. I like being married and planning a future together. It may go south, who knows. But I don't care to date. I actually despise dating. Most people I've dated have low character. Nothing else counts once that is discovered. Crazy is a common trait, too. I don't do crazy.

If she's not starving for marriage and you're not looking for anyone else, what's the problem? You need to give that woman a call!


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## minimalME

Either propose to her, or leave her alone.


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## Rowan

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> thanks for the reply... I see your post often and appreciate your insight.
> 
> She never ever pushed for marriage. I am not ready and dont think I ever will even if I feel like I am ready. Keeping dating as is not really an option....we did that three years and it was time to move up a level or move on..... I thought I would move on easily, I enjoyed the extra freedom for like two weeks, but now not so much. I could get all the sex I want but that doesnt even appeal to me.....



So, she wasn't pushing for marriage, or even living together. You just decided that after 3 years, you needed to either go to the next level or move on. So you moved on. Did you even discuss this with her? Why the arbitrary 3-year expiration date for the relationship? She might have been just fine continuing on just as you had been. Is doesn't sound like she was pushing for anything. It sounds more like you maybe just got bored. Or possibly that you just freaked out and bolted because _you thought she might _some day push for more, and you scared yourself with your own imaginings. 

I suggest leaving Martha alone. Work on yourself, OP, and on being someone you like. Then work on being honest about who you are and what you need, whoever and whatever that is, with yourself and future prospective partners.


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## Bananapeel

Another avenue to consider...

I'm guessing you just weren't into her enough to want to keep maintaining the relationship and now you have anxiety because you lost something safe and decent. It's the internal battle of risk vs reward, and when to settle vs going for the best you can get. I'm guessing you are somewhat risk averse and value stability if you are thinking of trying to rekindle with her? Is that your motivation or is she truly mind blowing and you can't imagine life without her?


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## Affaircare

@Formally known as Hoosier,

It sounds like you understand that the fit with "Martha" was very good and like you believe you may have made a mistake ending it with her. It also sounds like you've done some personal introspection and realized you have a concern about committing, and that it's not "committing to her" but rather that you just don't feel commitment. 

Speaking as a lady of a certain age (mid-50's) who's also dating, may I politely remind you that all relationships are made up of a series of small commitments and without even realizing it you have already made several commitments and kept them--especially after three years. Let me just encourage you not to over-think things or spend too much time worrying about what "perfect commitment" would be. Think of commitment like many smaller steps that turn into a big journey, rather than thinking of it as one, HUGE step. There's dating..there's exclusive dating...there's living together...all of these are steps along the road, and really the commitment is not "marriage" but rather loyalty, faithfulness, and voluntarily being together without the restriction of having to stay in a relationship "because of the commitment" when really you'd be wiser to go! 

So I get it in a way from her side--she'd like some commitment for stability. Yep, I can understand that and I bet you can too. But on't forget you HAVE made a number of commitments already and you are willing to work on bigger commitments!

A few things you wrote caught my eye:

You wrote:


> She however could sense that I wasnt totally committed and that created stress, always wanting to know where I was, always checking on me and I had to explain where and what I was doing. I got tired of the scruitiny (sp) and finally broke it off.


In real life, constantly checking on you and you having to explain where and what you are doing is not about commitment. It's about insecurity...so don't mix these two. It's not reasonable to constantly be scrutinized to that level, so if you do decide to have a talk with her, you will need to talk about your commitment work--but she'll also need to work on being secure and trusting you. These are both big and would need to be resolved (not SOLVED, but addressed in an ongoing manner). 

You wrote:


> I have considered getting in touch with her but dont want to do so unless I am more committed than before. ... I dont find myself feeling the same way now.


and


> I dont want to go back unless I can go all the way, otherwise not fair to her.


You know, it would not be fair to her to propose a relationship just for the companionship or because you "feel lonely"... and I hear you saying "I don't want to go back." But I also think I hear you saying that you are willing to look at the man in the mirror and say "Hmm...maybe I need to work on myself and my fear of commitment." To me, this is a very good sign, as so few are willing to look at themselves and then do work to change. 

If you honestly do not want to go back, then don't. It truly would not be fair to her to offer a person who doesn't want to be there. It's okay--but honest with yourself. Do you want HER? Or do you just want "someone"? If it's someone to fill the companionship hole, then going back will not satisfy and I'd recommend not going to talk to her. However, if it is HER and you want to work on yourself to be a better man because you've realized there is something special with HER...then I'd say go talk to her. Be honest with her about realizing you made a mistake and recognizing you are afraid of commitment AND talk to her about her scrutiny. Shoot, I'd even tell her you are take steps to overcome your commitment anxiety and lay out what you plan to do and when/how you plan to do it...and then let her decide if she wants to join you on that journey. She's an adult--let her decide for herself.

The point is to be honest with yourself and with her, and then voluntarily decide if you want to walk together. If you both do...then that is a commitment.


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## Hoosier

minimalME said:


> Either propose to her, or leave her alone.


She doesnt want to get married. I do however want to be committed or I am going to leave her alone. (wonder sometimes if people actually read the post) That is exactly my point! I dont want to get back to only string her along. Hense my question.... and the title of this post. 

Thanks for your time to reply.


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## Hoosier

Rowan said:


> So, she wasn't pushing for marriage, or even living together. You just decided that after 3 years, you needed to either go to the next level or move on. So you moved on. Did you even discuss this with her? Why the arbitrary 3-year expiration date for the relationship? She might have been just fine continuing on just as you had been. Is doesn't sound like she was pushing for anything. It sounds more like you maybe just got bored. Or possibly that you just freaked out and bolted because _you thought she might _some day push for more, and you scared yourself with your own imaginings.
> 
> I suggest leaving Martha alone. Work on yourself, OP, and on being someone you like. Then work on being honest about who you are and what you need, whoever and whatever that is, with yourself and future prospective partners.


I would say that I was honest with her, she did not even complain that I wasnt.

What happened and brought it to an end was not arbritary (you seem a bit jaded yourself, casting everything in a certain light...you ok?) 

What actually happened: I dropped off my granddaughter at her home an hour away, I called Martha on my way home. Told her that on my way home I was stopping at a buddies home (he is married and him and his wife are some of my best friends, they live a ways from me) as we, Martha and I had just returned from a trip to Colorado and I wanted to tell them about the trip. Martha lives half hour away from Me and not on my way home. She suggested that I take a selfie with them to prove I was where I said I was. I was livid! She always checked up on me (issue for me) but I thought this over the top. I just had had enough, so I told her I was ending it.


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## Livvie

Do you have a history of cheating in your past she knows about? Is there any other background to her request? Did you ask her why she doesn't trust you


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## SunCMars

Oh God...

This is so sad!

This could be me. 

It is not.

It could be.

It might be.



On and on until I hit 'post' please.




Anonymous- {I cannot sign off on nor own this post}


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## SunCMars

To use, or to be used.

That is the question, certainly the dilemma.


The Typist I-


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## Hoosier

Affaircare said:


> @Formally known as Hoosier,
> 
> It sounds like you understand that the fit with "Martha" was very good and like you believe you may have made a mistake ending it with her. It also sounds like you've done some personal introspection and realized you have a concern about committing, and that it's not "committing to her" but rather that you just don't feel commitment.
> 
> Speaking as a lady of a certain age (mid-50's) who's also dating, may I politely remind you that all relationships are made up of a series of small commitments and without even realizing it you have already made several commitments and kept them--especially after three years. Let me just encourage you not to over-think things or spend too much time worrying about what "perfect commitment" would be. Think of commitment like many smaller steps that turn into a big journey, rather than thinking of it as one, HUGE step. There's dating..there's exclusive dating...there's living together...all of these are steps along the road, and really the commitment is not "marriage" but rather loyalty, faithfulness, and voluntarily being together without the restriction of having to stay in a relationship "because of the commitment" when really you'd be wiser to go!
> 
> So I get it in a way from her side--she'd like some commitment for stability. Yep, I can understand that and I bet you can too. But on't forget you HAVE made a number of commitments already and you are willing to work on bigger commitments!
> 
> A few things you wrote caught my eye:
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> 
> In real life, constantly checking on you and you having to explain where and what you are doing is not about commitment. It's about insecurity...so don't mix these two. It's not reasonable to constantly be scrutinized to that level, so if you do decide to have a talk with her, you will need to talk about your commitment work--but she'll also need to work on being secure and trusting you. These are both big and would need to be resolved (not SOLVED, but addressed in an ongoing manner).
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> and
> 
> 
> You know, it would not be fair to her to propose a relationship just for the companionship or because you "feel lonely"... and I hear you saying "I don't want to go back." But I also think I hear you saying that you are willing to look at the man in the mirror and say "Hmm...maybe I need to work on myself and my fear of commitment." To me, this is a very good sign, as so few are willing to look at themselves and then do work to change.
> 
> If you honestly do not want to go back, then don't. It truly would not be fair to her to offer a person who doesn't want to be there. It's okay--but honest with yourself. Do you want HER? Or do you just want "someone"? If it's someone to fill the companionship hole, then going back will not satisfy and I'd recommend not going to talk to her. However, if it is HER and you want to work on yourself to be a better man because you've realized there is something special with HER...then I'd say go talk to her. Be honest with her about realizing you made a mistake and recognizing you are afraid of commitment AND talk to her about her scrutiny. Shoot, I'd even tell her you are take steps to overcome your commitment anxiety and lay out what you plan to do and when/how you plan to do it...and then let her decide if she wants to join you on that journey. She's an adult--let her decide for herself.
> 
> The point is to be honest with yourself and with her, and then voluntarily decide if you want to walk together. If you both do...then that is a commitment.


Thank you for your time!

No, I dont just want someone. Heck until just recently I didnt think I wanted anyone, as I dont "feel lonely" I enjoy my free time, but when I did date someone else, constantly comparing them to her, they came out on the low side.
I think I am going to look up the counselor I had during the first couple of years following my divorce, she was a lot of help and seemed to know how to help me.


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## sunsetmist

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> I would say that I was honest with her, she did not even complain that I wasnt.
> 
> What happened and brought it to an end was not arbritary (you seem a bit jaded yourself, casting everything in a certain light...you ok?)
> 
> What actually happened: I dropped off my granddaughter at her home an hour away, I called Martha on my way home. Told her that on my way home I was stopping at a buddies home (he is married and him and his wife are some of my best friends, they live a ways from me) as we, Martha and I had just returned from a trip to Colorado and I wanted to tell them about the trip. Martha lives half hour away from Me and not on my way home. She suggested that I take a selfie with them to prove I was where I said I was. I was livid! She always checked up on me (issue for me) but I thought this over the top. I just had had enough, so I told her I was ending it.


I, too, would not be comfortable having to prove myself constantly. This presumes you have given her no reason to doubt you. Was she betrayed in the past? 

To me this is huge--a much bigger deal than liking the same things type compatibility. Good communication is an important key to honest, true relationships.


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## Hoosier

Bananapeel said:


> Another avenue to consider...
> 
> I'm guessing you just weren't into her enough to want to keep maintaining the relationship and now you have anxiety because you lost something safe and decent. It's the internal battle of risk vs reward, and when to settle vs going for the best you can get. I'm guessing you are somewhat risk averse and value stability if you are thinking of trying to rekindle with her? Is that your motivation or is she truly mind blowing and you can't imagine life without her?


FYI.. I am anything but risk averse. In 1989 I was 29 years old, I had a wife and two kids with one on the way. I was making $50k a year (good money back in those days especially here in rual Indiana, probably twice what the average guy was making) I quit my job, started my own business and my kids were eligiable for free lunches at school and I went to refianance my mortgage (dropping payment $100 a month and term was 5 years shorter) I could not qualify for the lower payment. true story.

I dont know about mind blowing, maybe thats what I am secretly waiting for, but she and I are a real good fit. I just miss what we had. But what we had was not good enough for her (not blaming or judging her she has the right to what she wants) and I know that to be fair to her I should not rekindle unless I am willing to go further down her road of wants.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Thanks for you insight...
> 
> LET ME BE CLEAR. I know the problem is ME, I dont fault her at all for her feelings, understand them completely. I am definitely flawed! check out the title of this thread.
> 
> As for her finding another, I wouldnt like it, but would completely understand. The fact that she may is probably why I decided to post this thread, I want to figure out what I want why I cant "pull the trigger" Listen, I own my own business, have for 30 years. I am not rich by any means, but I live pretty good, take multiple trips a year, no real money issues.


Remember, you should be "fair" to yourself too.

There's nothing wrong with going on dates with this or other persons while you're working on yourself. 

It's not a requirement to have "everything" worked out 100% at an exact moment in time. Are you omniscient? No.....

You're putting too much pressure on yourself. 

Lighten up and keep moving forward man!

You may be getting analysis paralysis.


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## Hoosier

Livvie said:


> Do you have a history of cheating in your past she knows about? Is there any other background to her request? Did you ask her why she doesn't trust you


Good questions. No I have no history of being unfaithful (see original post) The main reason she didnt trust me, is I didnt do the little things that she wanted. (these sound so childish but I will explain). One thing she wanted me to do was post a photo of her and I as my main photo in Face Book. She said that in my earlier relationships (the two women post divorce I dated for a while) I commented more about them on FB. I told her when we started dating that I didnt think being that public about everything was a good idea and wasnt going to do that. I posted many times photos from trips with her and I, tagging her and everything, but (in her defense) not like I had before.

Honestly, I think I WAS trying to keep my options open in a weird way, she was just reading my vibes. I am in no way trying to say this was her issue (again note the name of thread....fix me) or she was the real problem... I know thats me.


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## MaiChi

The question of where are you or what are you doing is asked in different ways like "How was your day?" Same question, same expectation of accountability, but softer version. I ask him on most days and he ends up narrating his moves and me taking an interest in his actions and events. He asks the same questions. I narrate too. Sometimes I tell him before he asks. 

My question is why this sharing of what we did with our whole day, starts to irritate to the point where you thought Martha was checking on you? What triggered an irritation after 3 years of the same without irritation? The moment you knew you missed her, why stopped you from calling her and explaining your behaviour? Its two months since, you have already dated someone else. Why would she be waiting and hoping still? You have not even checked on what impact your ending it had on her. 

In her shoes, I would not consider having Chapter 2 with you even if I really missed you too. The fair thing should have been to sit together and discuss your misgivings about checking on you, if that was the only complaint, then reach a logical conclusion together over maybe a week. She would have taken part in the decision and been able to explain how she felt too.


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## Hoosier

MaiChi said:


> The question of where are you or what are you doing is asked in different ways like "How was your day?" Same question, same expectation of accountability, but softer version. I ask him on most days and he ends up narrating his moves and me taking an interest in his actions and events. He asks the same questions. I narrate too. Sometimes I tell him before he asks.
> 
> My question is why this sharing of what we did with our whole day, starts to irritate to the point where you thought Martha was checking on you? What triggered an irritation after 3 years of the same without irritation? The moment you knew you missed her, why stopped you from calling her and explaining your behaviour? Its two months since, you have already dated someone else. Why would she be waiting and hoping still? You have not even checked on what impact your ending it had on her.
> 
> In her shoes, I would not consider having Chapter 2 with you even if I really missed you too. The fair thing should have been to sit together and discuss your misgivings about checking on you, if that was the only complaint, then reach a logical conclusion together over maybe a week. She would have taken part in the decision and been able to explain how she felt too.


fair enough. I am prepared that she will tell me to f off. I would understand.

The one thing you dont understand, or maybe didnt read. It was NOT a matter of asking me about my day, or even where I was..... I get that. BUT she wanted me to take a picture of me and my friends together to PROVE I was where I said I was.


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## Lloyd Dobler

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> fair enough. I am prepared that she will tell me to f off. I would understand.
> 
> The one thing you dont understand, or maybe didnt read. It was NOT a matter of asking me about my day, or even where I was..... I get that. *BUT she wanted me to take a picture of me and my friends together to PROVE I was where I said I was.*


And if you do wind up rekindling things with Martha, you realize you're probably going to be subjected to this kind of behavior again? Are you ready for that for the long term?


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## Bananapeel

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Good questions. No I have no history of being unfaithful (see original post) The main reason she didnt trust me, is I didnt do the little things that she wanted. (these sound so childish but I will explain). One thing she wanted me to do was post a photo of her and I as my main photo in Face Book. She said that in my earlier relationships (the two women post divorce I dated for a while) I commented more about them on FB. I told her when we started dating that I didnt think being that public about everything was a good idea and wasnt going to do that. I posted many times photos from trips with her and I, tagging her and everything, but (in her defense) not like I had before.
> 
> Honestly, I think I WAS trying to keep my options open in a weird way, she was just reading my vibes. I am in no way trying to say this was her issue (again note the name of thread....fix me) or she was the real problem... I know thats me.


Women can pick up on that vibe and for some of them it literally drives them crazy when they want the man to commit. They'll often recognize their behavior as atypical for them and uncomfortable, but they won't be able to do anything about it because they'll be acting emotionally rather than logically. I've experienced it and if you give them enough of a commitment that they don't worry (either verbal commitment or behavior that shows your committed) they usually can get past it without much trouble. Although, personally if I woman started demanding proof I was somewhere I'd also end the relationship.


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## Hoosier

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28389-never-thought-i-would-posting-here.html


my original thread


----------



## Hoosier

Lloyd Dobler said:


> And if you do wind up rekindling things with Martha, you realize you're probably going to be subjected to this kind of behavior again? Are you ready for that for the long term?



Part of the reason I have waited this long. I do believe however that with some communications and assurances from me, she would get past this. I just was not willing to give her those assurances in the past. Which is why I am here. I need to make sure I'm ready before I start. What I have been thinking about the last three weeks.


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## BluesPower

First off, like you said, if you are not all in, please do not go back. 

But to me, I do think you need counseling to help figure out where you are at. 

For me, when I met my GF, that was it for me. She is perfect in so many ways. 

I don't know if we will get married, but we are def looking to move in together next year (Work logistics).

So for me, I was able to flip the switch. No one knows what the future holds, so there is always a chance that it could not work out, I guess but I am willing to take a shot. 

But I get some of the feelings that you are having...


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## Hope Shimmers

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Part of the reason I have waited this long. I do believe however that with some communications and assurances from me, she would get past this. I just was not willing to give her those assurances in the past. Which is why I am here. I need to make sure I'm ready before I start. What I have been thinking about the last three weeks.


Why were you not ready to give her those assurances in the past, but you think you are now? In a 3-year relationship, you should be able to talk things out. 

I totally agree with a previous poster who said she would not give you opportunity for a Chapter 2 of this relationship either. I would definitely not. But I have a special pet peeve about men who cannot communicate and who instead just say, "I'm done" and walk away without ANY opportunity for discussion of why things are the way they are. That is not a relationship; that is a dictatorship.

As for the Facebook thing? I hate Facebook, personally, but it certainly is not a wonder why she was upset that you treated your last exes differently (in a more public way) than you do her. All sorts of potential possibilities there - none of them good... eg you are ashamed of her for some reason; you don't want others to know you're in a relationship; you don't want to commit to her as much as you did with your exes (who you broke up with!). 

Please leave her alone.


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## Hoosier

Hope Shimmers said:


> Why were you not ready to give her those assurances in the past, but you think you are now? In a 3-year relationship, you should be able to talk things out.
> 
> I totally agree with a previous poster who said she would not give you opportunity for a Chapter 2 of this relationship either. I would definitely not. But I have a special pet peeve about men who cannot communicate and who instead just say, "I'm done" and walk away without ANY opportunity for discussion of why things are the way they are. That is not a relationship; that is a dictatorship.
> 
> As for the Facebook thing? I hate Facebook, personally, but it certainly is not a wonder why she was upset that you treated your last exes differently (in a more public way) than you do her. All sorts of potential possibilities there - none of them good... eg you are ashamed of her for some reason; you don't want others to know you're in a relationship; you don't want to commit to her as much as you did with your exes (who you broke up with!).
> 
> Please leave her alone.


Appreciate your input.


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## sunsetmist

I've not lived this, but sensing this is overall a control issue. In spite of all the good stuff, each of you had doubts and real concerns. Your gut was telling you what? Hers too? The little things are becoming the big things.

I'm a believer in counseling and think you would benefit no matter what the resolution to this issue.


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## SunCMars

Hope Shimmers said:


> Why were you not ready to give her those assurances in the past, but you think you are now? In a 3-year relationship, you should be able to talk things out.
> 
> I totally agree with a previous poster who said she would not give you opportunity for a Chapter 2 of this relationship either. I would definitely not. But I have a special pet peeve about men who cannot communicate and who instead just say, "I'm done" and walk away without ANY opportunity for discussion of why things are the way they are. That is not a relationship; that is a dictatorship.
> 
> As for the Facebook thing? I hate Facebook, personally, but it certainly is not a wonder why she was upset that you treated your last exes differently (in a more public way) than you do her. All sorts of potential possibilities there - none of them good... eg you are ashamed of her for some reason; you don't want others to know you're in a relationship; you don't want to commit to her as much as you did with your exes (who you broke up with!).
> 
> Please leave her alone.


With some people, in some relationships, there can be no discussion.

Strong emotions, sometimes rage and anger get in the way of logical talk.

All the old beefs come up, all the 'bad' things in the past are thrown in your face.

Sometimes your only defense is to give up. 

When all the bad things are thrown your way you simply agree with the accusations. 

Fighting over them, disagreeing with them has never worked in the past.

Just say goodbye, have a nice life. 

Now, that may not be the case here.

He may be the one 'mostly' at fault. If fault is an useful and an apt term....here.

Whenever strong emotions come into play, rational thought is usually drowned out.


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## Hope Shimmers

SunCMars said:


> With some people, in some relationships, there can be no discussion.
> 
> Strong emotions, sometimes rage and anger get in the way of logical talk.
> 
> All the old beefs come up, all the 'bad' things in the past are thrown in your face.
> 
> Sometimes your only defense is to give up.
> 
> When all the bad things are thrown your way you simply agree with the accusations.
> 
> Fighting over them, disagreeing with them has never worked in the past.
> 
> Just say goodbye, have a nice life.
> 
> Now, that may not be the case here.
> 
> He may be the one 'mostly' at fault. If fault is an useful and an apt term....here.
> 
> Whenever strong emotions come into play, rational thought is usually drowned out.


Believe me, I know all about men who would rather yell and scream and curse you out than participate in a civilized conversation.

That doesn't seem to be the case here though. And the OP says she 'sensed' his lack of commitment, not that they ever discussed it or sat down and had the "where is this going between us?" talk.

He did make a commitment to her though, like Affaircase said. Three years is a commitment. He said she doesn't want to get married but just wants a commitment. Well, what exactly does she want that to look like? Does the OP know? We can't decide if he's ready to make that commitment to her, whatever it is - only he can decide. But step one is knowing what it is.

She is being unreasonable by asking her to photo-document everywhere he goes. So he could find out WHY she feels the need to do that. He could ask her, "Why, Martha, do you find the need to do this all the time? Because I can't live that way". And then she would have the opportunity to say something like, "I don't trust that you are committed to our relationship" and he could reply that he would like her to tell him what would make her feel differently and what he would be willing to do to make that happen. If he's not willing to do anything to change it, then at least they both have that understanding.


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## 3Xnocharm

Hope Shimmers said:


> As for the Facebook thing? I hate Facebook, personally, but it certainly is not a wonder why she was upset that you treated your last exes differently (in a more public way) than you do her. All sorts of potential possibilities there - none of them good... eg you are ashamed of her for some reason; you don't want others to know you're in a relationship; you don't want to commit to her as much as you did with your exes (who you broke up with!).
> 
> Please leave her alone.





Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Good questions. No I have no history of being unfaithful (see original post) The main reason she didnt trust me, is I didnt do the little things that she wanted. (these sound so childish but I will explain). One thing she wanted me to do was post a photo of her and I as my main photo in Face Book. She said that in my earlier relationships (the two women post divorce I dated for a while) I commented more about them on FB. I told her when we started dating that I didnt think being that public about everything was a good idea and wasnt going to do that. I posted many times photos from trips with her and I, tagging her and everything, but (in her defense) not like I had before.
> 
> Honestly, I think I WAS trying to keep my options open in a weird way, she was just reading my vibes. I am in no way trying to say this was her issue (again note the name of thread....fix me) or she was the real problem... I know thats me.


I can relate to her here, I am dealing with this same kind of issue with my current SO. I don't get treated the way the ex's were,(on FB and in normal day to day) and it frustrates me to no end, especially since I treat him SOOO much better than anyone before me did. He isn't hiding me, but he also isn't giving me anything special there either... no shout outs about a great time, no comments on pics of us that I look good or that he loves me, no couple pic for his profile. The rest of our relationship is currently the same way, sadly.... 




Formally known as Hoosier said:


> What actually happened: I dropped off my granddaughter at her home an hour away, I called Martha on my way home. Told her that on my way home I was stopping at a buddies home (he is married and him and his wife are some of my best friends, they live a ways from me) as we, Martha and I had just returned from a trip to Colorado and I wanted to tell them about the trip. Martha lives half hour away from Me and not on my way home. She suggested that I take a selfie with them to prove I was where I said I was. I was livid! She always checked up on me (issue for me) but I thought this over the top. I just had had enough, so I told her I was ending it.


While I agree this is over the top, she had been very insecure because she was well aware of your lack of real commitment. I can totally relate again! I think if you did eventually end up together and you give the commitment she has been hoping for that most of this behavior would go away. (a fact my current doesn't seem to grasp) I think you should only contact her again once you are 100% certain where your head/heart is at.


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## Hoosier

3Xnocharm said:


> I can relate to her here, I am dealing with this same kind of issue with my current SO. I don't get treated the way the ex's were,(on FB and in normal day to day) and it frustrates me to no end, especially since I treat him SOOO much better than anyone before me did. He isn't hiding me, but he also isn't giving me anything special there either... no shout outs about a great time, no comments on pics of us that I look good or that he loves me, no couple pic for his profile. The rest of our relationship is currently the same way, sadly....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree this is over the top, she had been very insecure because she was well aware of your lack of real commitment. I can totally relate again! I think if you did eventually end up together and you give the commitment she has been hoping for that most of this behavior would go away. (a fact my current doesn't seem to grasp) I think you should only contact her again once you are 100% certain where your head/heart is at.


I did tag her in multiple photos, multiple times. But not faultingt her over that, just a bit of clarification. I too believe that if I were to "commit" the behavior would go away. I think the best advice here is to see my counselor, because I am obviously having a hard time figuring this out. Look, I know how I think I feel, but I hurt her when I broke up with her, and do not want to EVER do that to her again. So I am staying away until I know I am sure, but not sure that I will ever be SURE, if that makes sense. I do know this, that if I were to talk to her today, I would not heisitate to post a photo of the two of us for my profile, in fact know exactly which one I would use.


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## Evinrude58

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> I would say that I was honest with her, she did not even complain that I wasnt.
> 
> What happened and brought it to an end was not arbritary (you seem a bit jaded yourself, casting everything in a certain light...you ok?)
> 
> What actually happened: I dropped off my granddaughter at her home an hour away, I called Martha on my way home. Told her that on my way home I was stopping at a buddies home (he is married and him and his wife are some of my best friends, they live a ways from me) as we, Martha and I had just returned from a trip to Colorado and I wanted to tell them about the trip. Martha lives half hour away from Me and not on my way home. She suggested that I take a selfie with them to prove I was where I said I was. I was livid! She always checked up on me (issue for me) but I thought this over the top. I just had had enough, so I told her I was ending it.


Sounds like you wanted to end it and was looking for an excuse. If you were where you said you were, really what she asked wasn’t so big of a deal.
Just sayin’


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## 3Xnocharm

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> I do know this, that if I were to talk to her today, I would not heisitate to post a photo of the two of us for my profile, in fact know exactly which one I would use.



You know, weirdly, THIS says a LOT! 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> This is NOT a cry for help, I am not desperate, but am very interested in trying to understand me!
> 
> Background: I am 58, divorced 7 years after a 36 year relationship (dated 5 years during high school and college married 31) that ended when she had an affair and ran off with the AP. I was devestated! Thank God I found TAM just before it happened (googled "my wife doesnt love me anymore") when I was looking to repair my marriage.
> Since my divorce I have had three relationships, all really nice women, the first lasted 6 months, second 2 years and third 3 years (I ended in June). I was very clear that I did not want to get married, and the truth be known, I wasnt sure I even wanted a relationship. My third relationship (call her Martha) was great. We were as compatiable as two people can be. We enjoyed the same music at the same level, she loved my family and they loved her, she never complained about anything we did and was a real trooper. Sex was great, and she was always willing (which is very important to me, as a 30 year marriage, where you get turned down 80% of the time will make a guy sensitive to this). She however could sense that I wasnt totally committed and that created stress, always wanting to know where I was, always checking on me and I had to explain where and what I was doing. I got tired of the scruitiny (sp) and finally broke it off. Its been almost three months and I miss her a lot. And surprisingly not the sex part, but all the fun we had. In fact a week ago I had a date with a very nice woman, we went to hear some live music (a favorite thing of mine) had a great time laughing and joking.......and the whole time I was thinking how much more fun it would be wih Martha.
> I have considered getting in touch with her but dont want to do so unless I am more committed than before. I guess it comes down to....when I was younger I had the goo-goo eye type of love for my x. I was sure she was the ONE for me, I was TOTALLY committed, never cheated during our 30 plus year relationship. I dont find myself feeling the same way now.
> 
> she didnt trust me, and honestly, her radar was spot on, I didnt want to committ incase the perfect one came along. Today I am considering going to her home and talking with her (hell, I have been considering this for over a month, but its getting stronger not less, I thought it would go away, it isnt.)
> 
> Question: I dont want to go back unless I can go all the way, otherwise not fair to her. I think thats what I want, but....... I dont even know what to ask you.....how about some input may help me figure it out. Interested in others experiences.... this post really sucks about as clear as mud, I dont know if it makes sense or not......... help.


Maybe your not over getting burned by your ****ty wife. If so then maybe get some IC to get over you fear. Maybe you just don't want to get married, if that is the case then nothing is wrong with you. Nothing says you have to or even have to want to. So you miss her, OK. That's what is to be expected because you had a long relationship, still doesn't mean you need to get back with her and if she has different expectations then it's better that you don't. 

I think it's very likely nothing is wrong with you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Evinrude58 said:


> Sounds like you wanted to end it and was looking for an excuse. If you were where you said you were, really what she asked wasn’t so big of a deal.
> Just sayin’


I do have to say throughout decades of M, every now and then for whatever reason my W would ask, albeit in a tangential manner, for something akin to the FB picture you mentioned was asked for and really I'd just send it, because I wanted her mind to be at ease and she's not doubting me but if in a moment of insecurity she asked "without asking" I happily did because I love her.

If my W asked for say 30 times in a row it may be different but just now and then was / is never an issue.

At one time period I traveled a (very) lot. Would I tolerate inquisitions? No, but that's never been the case.


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## Hoosier

Everyone, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Even those I dont agree with, decide to follow, help me see various views and think it thru.

I have decided to not contact her. I want to be fair to her, I really hurt her when we broke up and I DONT want to do that again. So I have decided to not be selfish and just let her be. I will get over it, I did my 30 year marriage. Thanks again for your input.

Hoosier


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Even if not going in with a permanent relationship intent or just as friends, myself, I'd still see Martha in a visiting manner because you have an opportunity for now.

At this stage in our lives (56-65 maybe?) it's still good to visit old friends.

Perhaps aother positive aspect if you do visit her, then later if you do meet someone who becomes special in your life you won't be wondering about Martha.

Just my 2 cents. 

Good luck!


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## wilson

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Everyone, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Even those I dont agree with, decide to follow, help me see various views and think it thru.
> 
> I have decided to not contact her. I want to be fair to her, I really hurt her when we broke up and I DONT want to do that again. So I have decided to not be selfish and just let her be. I will get over it, I did my 30 year marriage. Thanks again for your input.
> 
> Hoosier


I'm glad you came to this decision. It's the noble thing to do. I'm sorry it turned out this way, but it will be a good lesson for the future. And do your best to put this behind you. If you carry a torch for her and always live in the fantasy of "what if", you'll be holding yourself back for finding happiness with someone else.


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## Ynot

Personally I disagree with your decision. I also think if you are guilty of anything it is projecting and internalizing. You projected what she want based on what you think she wanted. You said she was fine with where you were, but you broke it off because you assumed she would want more. That was based on some rather creepy stuff she did (but may not even be aware that it bothered you). You then internalized her creepy behavior and blamed yourself.
If I were you, I would approach her to talk to her. I would be prepared and willing to accept that she may not want to. But if she did, I would tell her why you did what you did. Because honestly you did what you did, because she did what she did. But she may not have even realized she was doing it, that it bothered you. 
Either way, both of you can take something away from it. You learn to communicate your discomforts better, instead of sucking it up. She learns not be so invasive. You could end up re-igniting what you had, you could end remaining good friends, or you might go your separate ways. But at least you will be able to say you tried.
As long as you are honest with her, you should never accept blame or assume what is or is not fair to anyone else. The only thing you owe anyone else is honesty.


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## Evinrude58

Ynot said:


> Personally I disagree with your decision. I also think if you are guilty of anything it is projecting and internalizing. You projected what she want based on what you think she wanted. You said she was fine with where you were, but you broke it off because you assumed she would want more. That was based on some rather creepy stuff she did (but may not even be aware that it bothered you). You then internalized her creepy behavior and blamed yourself.
> If I were you, I would approach her to talk to her. I would be prepared and willing to accept that she may not want to. But if she did, I would tell her why you did what you did. Because honestly you did what you did, because she did what she did. But she may not have even realized she was doing it, that it bothered you.
> Either way, both of you can take something away from it. You learn to communicate your discomforts better, instead of sucking it up. She learns not be so invasive. You could end up re-igniting what you had, you could end remaining good friends, or you might go your separate ways. But at least you will be able to say you tried.
> As long as you are honest with her, you should never accept blame or assume what is or is not fair to anyone else. The only thing you owe anyone else is honesty.


I 100% agree. 
I think he needs to ask himself if he loves this woman. If he’s decided no (seems he has),he’s right for not showing up again and reigniting her feelings in case she still loves him.

If he does love her and she is a quality person (based on the fact he hasn’t mentioned she tried begging him back, I think she might indeed be one), it’s a shame that OP didn’t have the temperance to think long and hard about a decision to throw away a woman he’d enjoyed 3 years with over a childish request for some concrete insecurity reinforcement.

OP sounds like once he’s made his mind up, he sticks with a decision though...


----------



## just got it 55

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> thanks for the replys
> 
> the breakup was ok, in that there was no yelling, screaming, I just told her that I was ending it and basically walked away. No contact since.
> 
> @Buddist.... Nothing at all wrong with being on my own. Just that after three months, I miss her more and wondering if I didnt make a big mistake.
> 
> @aine
> 
> "You have been on the market for quite a while (7 years), your divorce didnt just happen, you should be well grounded now and know exactly what you want and what you do not want.
> 
> 1. what do you want?
> 2. Do you think you will find someone better than Martha?
> 3. Are you happy to have casual relationships, non committed relationships going into the future?
> 4. What did Martha want? Maybe she also doesn't want a serious committed relationship"
> 
> 1. Thats the problem... I am a 58 year old guy and cant figure out what I want....what a looser.
> 2. Not personallity wise. She is not unattractive at all, but honestly not the type that I would normally be attracted to initially.
> 3.I thought I would be, but as it goes along, not so sure.
> 4. She wanted a committed relationship. Did not pressure for marriage, or even living together, just committment. I found that a hard thing to do. And she knew it.
> 
> sorry I dont know how to insert your questions..... so just cut and pasted.


 @Formally known as Hoosier

Well if the reverse were the case how would you respond?

If I were she my response would be thanks but no thanks

BTW: you brother are not a looser

55

ETA: I just read your last post Good Call H


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## 2ntnuf

You still have it in you to feel that special feeling where you want a woman and can't keep thoughts straight or hear the conversation unless you concentrate. She just isn't the one that does that to you. If you do not allow yourself to find that woman, you will lose your drive to have sex with Martha by staying with her. I know she is not in your life at this time. The rest of the relationship will be just what you want, comfortable. It won't be safe because you won't know what is wrong and will continue until she just gets tired of wanting you while you do not want her. 

It is so difficult to find that woman who makes you feel that. It must be a chemical reaction in the brain, is all I can figure, and it isn't something that can be figured out. It makes no sense. It just is. 

If that's what you want, this woman isn't the right one, but she could be a great friend. I just would not attempt a friendship with a woman who might be hurt by you not giving her what she desires from you. 

You can find this desire for a woman. You aren't too old. I don't think it goes away, but I am not sure. Only a few times have I felt it myself. It is worth it to have it all. In other words, what you feel for this woman, plus what you truly want to feel from the emotional side that doesn't have any logic connected to it.


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## Hoosier

2ntnuf said:


> You still have it in you to feel that special feeling where you want a woman and can't keep thoughts straight or hear the conversation unless you concentrate. She just isn't the one that does that to you. If you do not allow yourself to find that woman, you will lose your drive to have sex with Martha by staying with her. I know she is not in your life at this time. The rest of the relationship will be just what you want, comfortable. It won't be safe because you won't know what is wrong and will continue until she just gets tired of wanting you while you do not want her.
> 
> It is so difficult to find that woman who makes you feel that. It must be a chemical reaction in the brain, is all I can figure, and it isn't something that can be figured out. It makes no sense. It just is.
> 
> If that's what you want, this woman isn't the right one, but she could be a great friend. I just would not attempt a friendship with a woman who might be hurt by you not giving her what she desires from you.
> 
> You can find this desire for a woman. You aren't too old. I don't think it goes away, but I am not sure. Only a few times have I felt it myself. It is worth it to have it all. In other words, what you feel for this woman, plus what you truly want to feel from the emotional side that doesn't have any logic connected to it.


Here is the problem...... all weekend I was very active at home. Cleaning, rearraging, putting away. I NEVER DO THESE THINGS! As I have a housekeeper, and I am lazy..... But if I sat still, let my mind wander, I kept coming back to her and I. I missed her. Part of me wants to contact her, I do think she would be receptive, but CAN handle if not, but a part of me says that is just me being selfish wanting what I want. I have a call in to my counselor who helped me at lot during my divorce, hoping to talk with her (counselor) this week to get her input. 

"I just would not attempt a friendship with a woman who might be hurt by you not giving her what she desires from you." .............. THIS, this is what I dont want. I do not want to hurt her like I did when we broke up. Not saying I am some great guy, but I know she wanted a relationship with me badly, I dont want to go back half assed. How does a person KNOW what they want. For me it has been easy in the past, this time not so much. And yes, I normally do not change my mind, as I usually think things thru very thouroughly before decideing....thought I had done so this time...but..............

Again, everyone thank you for your input.


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## 2ntnuf

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Here is the problem...... all weekend I was very active at home. Cleaning, rearraging, putting away. I NEVER DO THESE THINGS! As I have a housekeeper, and I am lazy..... But if I sat still, let my mind wander, I kept coming back to her and I. I missed her. Part of me wants to contact her, I do think she would be receptive, but CAN handle if not, but a part of me says that is just me being selfish wanting what I want. I have a call in to my counselor who helped me at lot during my divorce, hoping to talk with her (counselor) this week to get her input.
> 
> "I just would not attempt a friendship with a woman who might be hurt by you not giving her what she desires from you." .............. THIS, this is what I dont want. I do not want to hurt her like I did when we broke up. Not saying I am some great guy, but I know she wanted a relationship with me badly, I dont want to go back half assed. How does a person KNOW what they want. For me it has been easy in the past, this time not so much. And yes, I normally do not change my mind, as I usually think things thru very thouroughly before decideing....thought I had done so this time...but..............
> 
> Again, everyone thank you for your input.


I see. Well, I think your counselor can help you figure it out. You've got some fear which is left over from your divorce and just prior. No shame in that. Many of us do to varying degrees. I would not go into this counseling like you want to get this woman to agree to seeing you again. That's a long shot and she may be to afraid to be hurt again. It's the same old thing. We saw what was going on in our marriage, but thought it might go away or we could prove our worthiness to her, somehow, some way. We wait to long to address the issues at hand. 

Try not to be too grief stricken. Yeah, some comfort that is... sorry. There are others you might find a better match. I'm reasonably curious to know what it was about this one that made you think of your ex. It's likely the case for your procrastination about commitment... partly, anyway. The rest is residuals you didn't know existed until now. You'll be okay.


----------



## Hoosier

2ntnuf said:


> I see. Well, I think your counselor can help you figure it out. You've got some fear which is left over from your divorce and just prior. No shame in that. Many of us do to varying degrees. I would not go into this counseling like you want to get this woman to agree to seeing you again. That's a long shot and she may be to afraid to be hurt again. It's the same old thing. We saw what was going on in our marriage, but thought it might go away or we could prove our worthiness to her, somehow, some way. We wait to long to address the issues at hand.
> 
> Try not to be too grief stricken. Yeah, some comfort that is... sorry. There are others you might find a better match. I'm reasonably curious to know what it was about this one that made you think of your ex. It's likely the case for your procrastination about commitment... partly, anyway. The rest is residuals you didn't know existed until now. You'll be okay.


Sorry for not being clear.... I was thinking about Martha, not my x....heck I havent thought of my x in six months.... I have finally reached indifference with her, took a while but seriously that ship has passed. My counselor was excellent, she knew how to read me and more importantly was excellent on helping me sort things out. that is why I called them this am, waiting on a call back to set up an appointment. The reason for the appointment request is NOT to get an idea on how to get her to see me, but to help me find my way. I am prepared for Martha to tell me to go take a flying leap, I know that is a real possability, I dont run from that, my delay in contacting her is to make sure my thoughts are straight, I DO NOT WANT TO HURT HER AGAIN.


----------



## BigDigg

Hoosier - have you talked with your counselor on your 'commitment' issues and hangups? To me that seems to be the root of the problem. Why is it that you walked away from a seemingly happy relationship and good woman? Is there an invisible line in the sand that you refuse to cross and what's enforcing that? Why sabotage happiness?


----------



## 2ntnuf

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Sorry for not being clear.... I was thinking about Martha, not my x....heck I havent thought of my x in six months.... I have finally reached indifference with her, took a while but seriously that ship has passed. My counselor was excellent, she knew how to read me and more importantly was excellent on helping me sort things out. that is why I called them this am, waiting on a call back to set up an appointment. The reason for the appointment request is NOT to get an idea on how to get her to see me, but to help me find my way. I am prepared for Martha to tell me to go take a flying leap, I know that is a real possability, I dont run from that, my delay in contacting her is to make sure my thoughts are straight, I DO NOT WANT TO HURT HER AGAIN.


That wasn't what I meant.


----------



## Hoosier

BigDigg said:


> Hoosier - have you talked with your counselor on your 'commitment' issues and hangups? To me that seems to be the root of the problem. Why is it that you walked away from a seemingly happy relationship and good woman? Is there an invisible line in the sand that you refuse to cross and what's enforcing that? Why sabotage happiness?




Spot on! Exactly why I named the thread what I did. I have not seen my counselor in 5 years. I now have a 10am appointment on Thursday (earliest she could get me in) hope to have some help with those questions and more.


----------



## BigDigg

Glad to hear about the counselor appointment. I'm sure it's the best way to deep dive on yourself and figure out what's missing in you that's causing these feelings and behaviors. You honestly sound like a great guy and kudos to you for being respectful of Martha here. Agree with you and all that you need to really be introspective with yourself first...So actually re-read the full thread and a couple quick ones:

You've not actually responded to anyone on what it is about 'commitment' that is causing heartburn for you. just that you are looking to avoid. Care to open up here? Is it fear on being hurt again? Fear that this woman will transform into your ex-wife? Wanting to perpetually play the field? Your own insecurities on being able to live up to a commitment or that you aren't a worthy partner for her? In your head what is it that you are seeking to avoid?

You seem to shirk around the above - evasive is probably the wrong term but do you have trouble being clear in communication with her too? Is it possible this is a reason why she's always asking to understand your whereabouts and her anxiety about you? I could see how you might be (again not the right term) evasive with her - you feel crowded perhaps and unwilling to share/engage - which turns her radar on and asking more questions (why is he acting weird?) - which makes you feel even more crowded which leads to negative emotions in your head. It's reasonable after 3 years to say you've already been implicitly 'committed' to this person and a reasonable expectation on her part that you are treating her well...


----------



## manfromlamancha

Hoosier, I have read all of your threads and can offer my tuppence worth of thoughts:


You, sir, are a caring man who is kind and does not like hurting people - especially people you care for or love.

You have been burned badly by giving your heart to your ex-wife who stomped all over it after 30 years - so I completely understand you not wanting to get married again.

You also are careful about completely giving your heart to anyone to protect you from ever being hurt again.

So it is not a question of not knowing what you want but knowing what you do not want - that is clear and understandable.

BUT ...

Because of the person that you are (and this is true for many of us), you need to have a relationship and companionship - not just for sex but for an emotional connection. The best way to have this is to be in a caring and committed relationship instead of sleeping around. And this sounds dangerously like a marriage (or at least a monogamous relationship). And I do believe that this is what would suit you best. 

You just need to figure out what your coping mechanisms are - for protecting yourself from being scalped in a marriage or from having your heart broken again. That is something an attorney and a counsellor (IC) can help you with. You do know what you want deep down - you are just nervous about how to protect yourself (understandably).

Good luck and go find the one!


----------



## Hoosier

BigDigg said:


> Glad to hear about the counselor appointment. I'm sure it's the best way to deep dive on yourself and figure out what's missing in you that's causing these feelings and behaviors. You honestly sound like a great guy and kudos to you for being respectful of Martha here. Agree with you and all that you need to really be introspective with yourself first...So actually re-read the full thread and a couple quick ones:
> 
> You've not actually responded to anyone on what it is about 'commitment' that is causing heartburn for you. just that you are looking to avoid. Care to open up here? Is it fear on being hurt again? Fear that this woman will transform into your ex-wife? Wanting to perpetually play the field? Your own insecurities on being able to live up to a commitment or that you aren't a worthy partner for her? In your head what is it that you are seeking to avoid?
> 
> You seem to shirk around the above - evasive is probably the wrong term but do you have trouble being clear in communication with her too? Is it possible this is a reason why she's always asking to understand your whereabouts and her anxiety about you? I could see how you might be (again not the right term) evasive with her - you feel crowded perhaps and unwilling to share/engage - which turns her radar on and asking more questions (why is he acting weird?) - which makes you feel even more crowded which leads to negative emotions in your head. It's reasonable after 3 years to say you've already been implicitly 'committed' to this person and a reasonable expectation on her part that you are treating her well...


My fear of committment is exactly why I am going to see my counselor. I dont know, but if I were to guess, I think I am afraid of getting hurt again. My divorce was totally traumatic. I lost 18 pounds in the first week. I basically quit work for two years, as I could not concentrate very well. Thank god I am the boss or I would of been let go. You are spot on on many things... my not willing to commit was a big cause of her concern.... listen..... I know its me...not her. She is a great lady, I was far more compatiable with her than my xw. I DO have a hard time talking about things...real hard time..... why I am seeking out my old counselor....she knows me and having worked with me for two years, knows how to communicate with me and I am use to communicating with her.....Thursday can not get here soon enough.


----------



## Hoosier

manfromlamancha said:


> Hoosier, I have read all of your threads and can offer my tuppence worth of thoughts:
> 
> 
> You, sir, are a caring man who is kind and does not like hurting people - especially people you care for or love.
> 
> You have been burned badly by giving your heart to your ex-wife who stomped all over it after 30 years - so I completely understand you not wanting to get married again.
> 
> You also are careful about completely giving your heart to anyone to protect you from ever being hurt again.
> 
> So it is not a question of not knowing what you want but knowing what you do not want - that is clear and understandable.
> 
> BUT ...
> 
> Because of the person that you are (and this is true for many of us), you need to have a relationship and companionship - not just for sex but for an emotional connection. The best way to have this is to be in a caring and committed relationship instead of sleeping around. And this sounds dangerously like a marriage (or at least a monogamous relationship). And I do believe that this is what would suit you best.
> 
> You just need to figure out what your coping mechanisms are - for protecting yourself from being scalped in a marriage or from having your heart broken again. That is something an attorney and a counsellor (IC) can help you with. You do know what you want deep down - you are just nervous about how to protect yourself (understandably).
> 
> Good luck and go find the one!


Thank you for the very kind words. And I do believe you are spot on.... so much so, I am printing this and taking it to my counselor appointment. Explains what I think is going on better than I could.


----------



## Ynot

I keep reading responses to the OP with the assumption that his thinking what she wants is actually what she wants. But no where has the OP stated that her wants were ever discussed. He states himself that this is how he perceived her actions, but we still have no idea what her actually thinking, wants, needs or desires actually were. Make sure you ask your counselor about your decision to interpret her actions, instead of just talking to her about them. As I have said in the past, she may have not even realized her actions were causing him any discomfort, especially if they had never been discussed.


----------



## Chuck71

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> My fear of committment is exactly why I am going to see my counselor. I dont know, but if I were to guess, I think I am afraid of getting hurt again. My divorce was totally traumatic. I lost 18 pounds in the first week. I basically quit work for two years, as I could not concentrate very well. Thank god I am the boss or I would of been let go. You are spot on on many things... my not willing to commit was a big cause of her concern.... listen..... I know its me...not her. She is a great lady, I was far more compatiable with her than my xw. I DO have a hard time talking about things...real hard time..... why I am seeking out my old counselor....she knows me and having worked with me for two years, knows how to communicate with me and I am use to communicating with her.....Thursday can not get here soon enough.


You were burned by your XW.....bad. You never "love" the same again. You are guarded and gun shy.

Your xGF might have been too. Where do "you" think her insecurities come from?

She isn't seeking M...... just LTcommit.... you seem to as well. But there's something holding you

back. You "fall" differently in your early 20s than late 50s. Just way things are.

Was trust the only main issue?


----------



## Hoosier

Chuck71 said:


> You were burned by your XW.....bad. You never "love" the same again. You are guarded and gun shy.
> 
> Your xGF might have been too. Where do "you" think her insecurities come from?
> 
> She isn't seeking M...... just LTcommit.... you seem to as well. But there's something holding you
> 
> back. You "fall" differently in your early 20s than late 50s. Just way things are.
> 
> Was trust the only main issue?



Yes, trust was basically it.


----------



## Chuck71

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Yes, trust was basically it.


If you never strayed or gave her reason to think, where did her fear come from?


----------



## Hoosier

Her fear came from the fact that I would not commit they way she thought I should... and after thinking about it....I think she was justified. I was squirrelly whenever we discussed...which all it did was make her more worried and paranoid.....

I do not believe she was out of line, if I did I would not be interested in talking about getting back together. She did not want to get married. (I think she would) she wasnt even pushing to move in together, but wanted some assurances from me that I wasnt willing to give, as I wasnt wanting to committ totally to a relationship.


----------



## Ynot

OP, you don't have a fear of commitment. You are confusing fear with respect. You have a healthy respect for commitment. It is something that people who are willing to learn, figure out after their previously erroneous sense of commitment is discovered to be false.


----------



## Chuck71

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Her fear came from the fact that I would not commit they way she thought I should... and after thinking about it....I think she was justified. I was squirrelly whenever we discussed...which all it did was make her more worried and paranoid.....
> 
> I do not believe she was out of line, if I did I would not be interested in talking about getting back together. She did not want to get married. (I think she would) she wasnt even pushing to move in together, but wanted some assurances from me that I wasnt willing to give, as I wasnt wanting to committ totally to a relationship.


She obviously knew about your past M. And what it did to you. She waited three years.

You're scared to death you may end up getting burned again. But as men, we aren't "allowed" to say that.

You should let her know this, if you want to clear it from your chest. Doesn't even have to be

a "let's get back together" speech. Just lay it out on the table and expect NOTHING from her.

Because you aren't doing it for her, you're doing it for you.


----------



## bkyln309

Chuck71 said:


> She obviously knew about your past M. And what it did to you. She waited three years.
> 
> You're scared to death you may end up getting burned again. But as men, we aren't "allowed" to say that.
> 
> You should let her know this, if you want to clear it from your chest. Doesn't even have to be
> 
> a "let's get back together" speech. Just lay it out on the table and expect NOTHING from her.
> 
> Because you aren't doing it for her, you're doing it for you.


Honestly, he shouldnt call her. He did enough for himself by letting the relationship go. Calling her again would only re-open the pain he caused by the break up. It is not her job to give him closure. He needs to work that out on his own.


----------



## Hoosier

Update: So Monday the 10th. I drove 2.5 hours to attend my 10 year old granddaughters volleyball game (during the one hour game they actually had one volley!) original plan was for me to spend the night and some activities the next day, but it turned out I needed to work the next day, so it was a 2.5 hour drive down, watch a hour game, 2.5 hours back home...... crazy? maybe, but worth it to me, especially after I promised her (my granddaughter) I would be there.

So driving back, 2.5 hours for my thoughts to torture me, with my counselor appt set for Thursday, I could take it no longer and I called my gf. I explained what I had been going thru, apologized for my actions, she apologized for hers, told her I wanted to meet but wanted to see my counselor first, we talked about some tough things, and some light things, We hung up when I pulled into my driveway,2.5 hours later with a promise to keep in touch (by us both) and a tentative meeting time for Saturday.

During the week, I had the occassion to talk once or twice but mainly we texted and firmed up Saturday plans.

Thursday I met with my counselor, (she saw me thru two years of my divorce 7 years ago) told her I was in for my 5 year checkup. Looking for some input. 45 minutes into session, I was thinking this is a waste of $150.... then she said, "When you are 58 years old, love and marriage is different than when you are 20 (no kidding). At 58 you need to ask yourself if this is a person I could make a good life with....." Bam clear! I tell people its like when you go to eye Dr... they do the "which is best, 1? or 2? 3? or 4? and my prescription was hit spot on! I looked at her and said... "Thats worth $150!"

So all day Thur and Friday I ran that thru my mind, which is how my mind works, tumble it over and over, looking at every angle. Texted her about her day a couple of times. but did not talk with her. Saturday early afternoon we met at a local state park. Talked long and hard inside my truck, then hit the trails. Over two miles of walking, sitting on benches and talking hard stuff, then walk to the next one, catching up on friends, kids (we hadnt seen each other in 3 months), then sitting down and talking about tough stuff. By the end of the walking (4 hours worth) We had decided we wanted to be back together, we wanted to change our dynamic as we both did things wrong, discussed the need for better communications, agreed we would and want to do couples counseling. 

7 years divorced, 3 years of dating her, 3 months of not dating her.....what it took me to get my head on straight. I am more clear headed than I have been anytime during the time frame mentioned. I know that I love her, I know that she and I, with work and monitoring can have a great relationship, (even though the physical side of a relationship is VERY important to me, and its great between us, I told my counselor that it would not be in the top 10 of the things I missed most)

As it now stands, we are getting married in a private ceremony then heading to Vegas for a long weekend, probably over Thanksgiving (she is a teacher and has it off). Not big gamblers, but she wants to see the Grand Canyon as she never has, and I have only flown over it about a dozen times, but never on the ground. I could not be happier, all that thinking and wondering is a pain. My girls are happy and my grandkids are even happier as they all love her. We have to sell her home and move her stuff into mine....OMG! lol 

I was never getting married again! lol 

Please know, this is not a knee jerk response. The decision to marry was not at all because I would loose her, she did not pressure me at all. 

One very happy guy,
Hoosier


----------



## BluesPower

I am super happy for you. 

I was not going to say you were right or wrong, because who knows. 

I am glad you processed everything and I think you made to right decision. 

I am going through the same thing, in a way. I want us to be together but it is scary in a way. 

BTW, would you post any helpful hint on all the logistical stuff. We have to do that same thing, and we are both dreading it. 

It seems like an almost impossible task(s). 

I guess if you don't break up over logistics that is a big hurtle? Right? 

Best of luck...


----------



## Hoosier

BluesPower said:


> I am super happy for you.
> 
> I was not going to say you were right or wrong, because who knows.
> 
> I am glad you processed everything and I think you made to right decision.
> 
> I am going through the same thing, in a way. I want us to be together but it is scary in a way.
> 
> BTW, would you post any helpful hint on all the logistical stuff. We have to do that same thing, and we are both dreading it.
> 
> It seems like an almost impossible task(s).
> 
> I guess if you don't break up over logistics that is a big hurtle? Right?
> 
> Best of luck...


Thanks for the kind words. As for the logistics...yikes.... Our situation is different then some, as we are both empty nesters. My home is the one my kids know as home, and at over 3,000 sq ft can fit in a lot, as following my divorce, I pretty well emptied 2/3 of it out. She has lived in her home for about 5 years, and unknown to me, was considering selling and moving to something with less upkeep. Her job is closer by distance to her home, but not much difference in time than from my home to work. Her mother works between here and her work, so when weather is a problem (and it is) she has a place to stay closer to work if necessary. As for how we are going to do this... I am not sure. I am thinking she is going to put in some time over Christmas break, but we shall see. Good thing for us, is no time restraint, although we want to move as soon as possible so that the home can be ready to go on the market by spring. As I encounter problems and answers I will report back.


----------



## BluesPower

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Thanks for the kind words. As for the logistics...yikes.... Our situation is different then some, as we are both empty nesters. My home is the one my kids know as home, and at over 3,000 sq ft can fit in a lot, as following my divorce, I pretty well emptied 2/3 of it out. She has lived in her home for about 5 years, and unknown to me, was considering selling and moving to something with less upkeep. Her job is closer by distance to her home, but not much difference in time than from my home to work. Her mother works between here and her work, so when weather is a problem (and it is) she has a place to stay closer to work if necessary. As for how we are going to do this... I am not sure. I am thinking she is going to put in some time over Christmas break, but we shall see. Good thing for us, is no time restraint, although we want to move as soon as possible so that the home can be ready to go on the market by spring. As I encounter problems and answers I will report back.


Yes any advice would be good. Mine is going to retire next year, a school teacher, so that gives me from now till, June or July to get my place ready for a woman. It have been a male dominated household, full of musicians for a while, crap every where. Old drums, amps, speakers, you name it. 

Plus I am trying to remodel, or just fix up a lot of stuff, she picks colors and decorates but the rest is on me. 

Not sure how long this will take???


----------



## Chuck71

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> Update: So Monday the 10th. I drove 2.5 hours to attend my 10 year old granddaughters volleyball game (during the one hour game they actually had one volley!) original plan was for me to spend the night and some activities the next day, but it turned out I needed to work the next day, so it was a 2.5 hour drive down, watch a hour game, 2.5 hours back home...... crazy? maybe, but worth it to me, especially after I promised her (my granddaughter) I would be there.
> 
> So driving back, 2.5 hours for my thoughts to torture me, with my counselor appt set for Thursday, I could take it no longer and I called my gf. I explained what I had been going thru, apologized for my actions, she apologized for hers, told her I wanted to meet but wanted to see my counselor first, we talked about some tough things, and some light things, We hung up when I pulled into my driveway,2.5 hours later with a promise to keep in touch (by us both) and a tentative meeting time for Saturday.
> 
> During the week, I had the occassion to talk once or twice but mainly we texted and firmed up Saturday plans.
> 
> Thursday I met with my counselor, (she saw me thru two years of my divorce 7 years ago) told her I was in for my 5 year checkup. Looking for some input. 45 minutes into session, I was thinking this is a waste of $150.... then she said, "When you are 58 years old, love and marriage is different than when you are 20 (no kidding). At 58 you need to ask yourself if this is a person I could make a good life with....." Bam clear! I tell people its like when you go to eye Dr... they do the "which is best, 1? or 2? 3? or 4? and my prescription was hit spot on! I looked at her and said... "Thats worth $150!"
> 
> So all day Thur and Friday I ran that thru my mind, which is how my mind works, tumble it over and over, looking at every angle. Texted her about her day a couple of times. but did not talk with her. Saturday early afternoon we met at a local state park. Talked long and hard inside my truck, then hit the trails. Over two miles of walking, sitting on benches and talking hard stuff, then walk to the next one, catching up on friends, kids (we hadnt seen each other in 3 months), then sitting down and talking about tough stuff. By the end of the walking (4 hours worth) We had decided we wanted to be back together, we wanted to change our dynamic as we both did things wrong, discussed the need for better communications, agreed we would and want to do couples counseling.
> 
> 7 years divorced, 3 years of dating her, 3 months of not dating her.....what it took me to get my head on straight. I am more clear headed than I have been anytime during the time frame mentioned. I know that I love her, I know that she and I, with work and monitoring can have a great relationship, (even though the physical side of a relationship is VERY important to me, and its great between us, I told my counselor that it would not be in the top 10 of the things I missed most)
> 
> As it now stands, we are getting married in a private ceremony then heading to Vegas for a long weekend, probably over Thanksgiving (she is a teacher and has it off). Not big gamblers, but she wants to see the Grand Canyon as she never has, and I have only flown over it about a dozen times, but never on the ground. I could not be happier, all that thinking and wondering is a pain. My girls are happy and my grandkids are even happier as they all love her. We have to sell her home and move her stuff into mine....OMG! lol
> 
> I was never getting married again! lol
> 
> Please know, this is not a knee jerk response. The decision to marry was not at all because I would loose her, she did not pressure me at all.
> 
> One very happy guy,
> Hoosier


The heart wants, what the heart wants. Be specific on the issues which led to the split.

As long as the two of you can sit down and talk, without emotions taking over, things should

run somewhat smooth. Many people become jaded about M after going through the hell-coaster.

It's not that you are dead set against it, not meaning OP in particular, but the way it is viewed.

Not every female is like your XW. But if you read these boards long enough, you begin to think so.

You have a better risk / reward this time. No kids, each have own home. Anything ventured into

can be 50 / 50. Best of luck and be sure to stop in and post update every now n then.


----------



## Evinrude58

Very happy for you Hoosier.
Kind of shocking, but you are happy with the decision and if she weren’t a good person in your mind, this would likely be troubling you rather than bringing you joy.

I hope you have many happy years together.
Your kids liking her says a lot about her.
Bravo on the communication.


----------



## Chuck71

BluesPower said:


> Yes any advice would be good. Mine is going to retire next year, a school teacher, so that gives me from now till, June or July to get my place ready for a woman. It have been a male dominated household, full of musicians for a while, crap every where. Old drums, amps, speakers, you name it.
> 
> Plus I am trying to remodel, or just fix up a lot of stuff, she picks colors and decorates but the rest is on me.
> 
> Not sure how long this will take???


Unless she makes prior requests beforehand, leave it. If she will be receiving mail at your place,

collaborate with what she would like. I'm the world's worst at decor, give me a room for my

vintage card side biz / hobby and a large room to watch sports with the guys and I'm set. Rest of the house...

is hers. I was lucky timingwise... mom started to bring a lot of her stuff out to my place before her

dementia started to take over. She almost got everything from her lunatic sister's basement.

But she worsened much quicker than she or I thought. After she passed, I have TONS of her stuff.

No clue what some was, what used for, etc. Thankfully I had started dating FQ. She knew what

all that stuff was, what should just be tossed, kept, or could be sold. Huge help to me....


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Omg Hoosier... that made me cry! Because 1) I am sooo incredibly happy for you! and 2) I am sooo jealous! I want something like this to happen to me so badly... my current situation is empty and breaking my heart. I was rooting for you all along, among all the doubters posting, lol. Way to go.


----------



## Evinrude58

So Hoosier, ya gonna divorce her when she texts you when you’re on a work trip or something and she asks for a pic of you to see if you’re where you should be, or are you gonna send the pic? 😊

Heh heh, sorry, I couldn’t help myself..

Temperance is a good thing.
Gotta practice what I preach is what my wife would say....


----------



## inging

Hey Hoosier
This is Inging formerly known as ing. 

I have not been on in a while so when I saw your post I jumped on, because I had the answer. A few pages in I see your counsellor had already enlightened you and you had smacked yourself in the head good and proper (again) and are back on track!

To those that have not been in extremely long marriages eight years of recovery is lightening speed. The simple truth is that many people simply never recover. They are so broken and lost that they prop up the bar of the local pub or knit jumpers for cats.

There are not many that can remarry or commit after 36 years married! I was 25 years married and it has been a real struggle. I still feel many of the feelings highlighted in this thread but I am really lucky.

I has been almost 8 years for me too. A three year relationship with a wonderful woman which I broke off. There was absolutely nothing wrong with her. She was, and is, a marvellous person. I broke her heart and I didn't know why at the time. 

Almost a year alone and I met my current Girlfriend. We have lived together for almost two years now along with all our kids. 
There is one sentence we live by. 
"You have to want what you have"

We can never have our youth or those discoveries we make as a young person. We bring a whole life of experience that neither of us can share.

We can have a nice life together. We can laugh, we don't argue, because we communicate, and sex is well.. Hot..

Marriage is not on the radar. Neither of us want it. Our respective kids keep demanding we do so we can all have a party.

Hell.. We can have a party anyway..


Hoosier.
May the road rise up to meet you. 
May the wind always be at your back. 
May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields.


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## Chuck71

inging said:


> Hey Hoosier
> This is Inging formerly known as ing.
> 
> I have not been on in a while so when I saw your post I jumped on, because I had the answer. A few pages in I see your counsellor had already enlightened you and you had smacked yourself in the head good and proper (again) and are back on track!
> 
> To those that have not been in extremely long marriages eight years of recovery is lightening speed. The simple truth is that many people simply never recover. They are so broken and lost that they prop up the bar of the local pub or knit jumpers for cats.
> 
> There are not many that can remarry or commit after 36 years married! I was 25 years married and it has been a real struggle. I still feel many of the feelings highlighted in this thread but I am really lucky.
> 
> I has been almost 8 years for me too. A three year relationship with a wonderful woman which I broke off. There was absolutely nothing wrong with her. She was, and is, a marvellous person. I broke her heart and I didn't know why at the time.
> 
> Almost a year alone and I met my current Girlfriend. We have lived together for almost two years now along with all our kids.
> There is one sentence we live by.
> *"You have to want what you have"*
> 
> We can never have our youth or those discoveries we make as a young person. We bring a whole life of experience that neither of us can share.
> 
> We can have a nice life together. We can laugh, we don't argue, because we communicate, and sex is well.. Hot..
> 
> Marriage is not on the radar. Neither of us want it. Our respective kids keep demanding we do so we can all have a party.
> 
> Hell.. We can have a party anyway..
> 
> 
> Hoosier.
> May the road rise up to meet you.
> May the wind always be at your back.
> May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields.


Glad to see you posting again. Hoosier.....every time this guy posts, seems like it's freaking gold.


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## sunsetmist

I have a huge smile on my face (after I spent hours catching up on your threads). Think I may just bask in U R happiness for a while. Good news is therapeutic.

BTW: I have driven 7 ---SEVEN--that is correct--hours to see volley ball at that level on one day and soccer the next day. It is not about the game, but about the love and memories.


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## Hoosier

inging said:


> Hey Hoosier
> This is Inging formerly known as ing.
> 
> I have not been on in a while so when I saw your post I jumped on, because I had the answer. A few pages in I see your counsellor had already enlightened you and you had smacked yourself in the head good and proper (again) and are back on track!
> 
> To those that have not been in extremely long marriages eight years of recovery is lightening speed. The simple truth is that many people simply never recover. They are so broken and lost that they prop up the bar of the local pub or knit jumpers for cats.
> 
> There are not many that can remarry or commit after 36 years married! I was 25 years married and it has been a real struggle. I still feel many of the feelings highlighted in this thread but I am really lucky.
> 
> I has been almost 8 years for me too. A three year relationship with a wonderful woman which I broke off. There was absolutely nothing wrong with her. She was, and is, a marvellous person. I broke her heart and I didn't know why at the time.
> 
> Almost a year alone and I met my current Girlfriend. We have lived together for almost two years now along with all our kids.
> There is one sentence we live by.
> "You have to want what you have"
> 
> We can never have our youth or those discoveries we make as a young person. We bring a whole life of experience that neither of us can share.
> 
> We can have a nice life together. We can laugh, we don't argue, because we communicate, and sex is well.. Hot..
> 
> Marriage is not on the radar. Neither of us want it. Our respective kids keep demanding we do so we can all have a party.
> 
> Hell.. We can have a party anyway..
> 
> 
> Hoosier.
> May the road rise up to meet you.
> May the wind always be at your back.
> May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields.


So good to hear from you Ing! You were with me all the way thru the discovery of infidelity, and the hell that followed. My post in the dealing with infidelity group was titeld "I cant believe I am here" Well this could be the same title... I cant believe it, but its true! I am extremely happy, not goofy happy, not care to the wind happy, but We can do this, we can communicate....happy!


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## BluesPower

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> So good to hear from you Ing! You were with me all the way thru the discovery of infidelity, and the hell that followed. My post in the dealing with infidelity group was titeld "I cant believe I am here" Well this could be the same title... I cant believe it, but its true! I am extremely happy, not goofy happy, not care to the wind happy, but We can do this, we can communicate....happy!


I frankly cannot imagine it taking 8 years to get over this stuff. I will have to review your thread. 

For me, I was done for a long time, before I filed for various reasons, stupidity mainly. 

So I guess I was already over all of it with her. 

But the being happy thing you were talking about, I am living that. 

Last night, we were talking and we both said that based on this relationship, we are actually both thinking that we have never actually been in love before. 

Whether it is that we are actually the ONE for each other or what I don't know. I mean I have loved before, probably way more that I should have, but it was never like this. 

We look at each other like we are some kind of gift to each other, for lack of a better phrase or concept. 

For me, I just never knew it could be like this. I am still pinching myself I am so happy...


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## Hoosier

One Eighty said:


> I haven't read all the posts, sorry, but I will give you my $0.02.
> 
> I'd say wait. You may never find the perfect one, not everyone does. Settling though, that's the worst. Been there, done that. I knew I didn't want to do that again so I waited a very long time. I finally met my perfect one when I was 39. She was worth the wait.


This is not at all settling! Following my divorce I date three women for long periods (six months, two years and now 3 years) I WOULD NEVER SETTLE. Why I took a long time to be sure, I wanted to be sure.

What I did not explain very well. My complaints of her tracking me downstem from my actions as I always held her at arms length, even after dating for 3 years (we did not cohabitate) For example I only RARELY even told her I loved her. Never at the end of a conversation and probably only 5 times total over those three years. Because of that, her radar was always on, wondering where I was, thinking I may be with another woman, and I never gave her any reason to NOT think that way. 
We both agree that we have a part in our breaking up. We both agree, that we want it different. We both agree that it will be a lot of work but with COMMUNICATION we can make it work. We are going to attend couples counseling. both before and after the wedding. I keep waiting for doubt to creep in, but it isnt! 
She is the one for me, that I know for sure. Not even close to settling....


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## Lostinthought61

One Eighty said:


> I haven't read all the posts, sorry, but I will give you my $0.02.
> 
> I'd say wait. You may never find the perfect one, not everyone does. Settling though, that's the worst. Been there, done that. I knew I didn't want to do that again so I waited a very long time. I finally met my perfect one when I was 39. She was worth the wait.


Hold on....did you meet someone else i don't know about, because you can't be talking about your cheating wife...why would you settle for someone like that...i don't care what the outside wrapper looks like.


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## Hoosier

Lostinthought61 said:


> Hold on....did you meet someone else i don't know about, because you can't be talking about your cheating wife...why would you settle for someone like that...i don't care what the outside wrapper looks like.


No not my XW!!!! LOL not EVEN close. This woman has been divorced longer than I. She divorced her first husband after he failed rehab 3 times and WOULD NOT go back for a fourth(he was a pharmasist). She is a completely loving woman, elementary Music teacher who loves her students and her job, and is absolutely awesome at it. For the last three years, we have done quite a bit of traveling, we almost always are thinking the same thing at the same time (we even joke about it) very much enjoy the same food, drink and activities. Are physical compatatibility is off the charts as well. Kinda wondering what took me so long! The x is still married to her affair partner. He is 15 years older than her (58, 73) he sleeps in the living room in a hospital bed, as he needs a lung transplant and is not a candidate. I am so far past them that I dont even hate him anymore, dont feel sorry for him, but really never think about him OR her anymore....and THAT took a long time.


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## Lostinthought61

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> No not my XW!!!! LOL not EVEN close. This woman has been divorced longer than I. She divorced her first husband after he failed rehab 3 times and WOULD NOT go back for a fourth(he was a pharmasist). She is a completely loving woman, elementary Music teacher who loves her students and her job, and is absolutely awesome at it. For the last three years, we have done quite a bit of traveling, we almost always are thinking the same thing at the same time (we even joke about it) very much enjoy the same food, drink and activities. Are physical compatatibility is off the charts as well. Kinda wondering what took me so long! The x is still married to her affair partner. He is 15 years older than her (58, 73) he sleeps in the living room in a hospital bed, as he needs a lung transplant and is not a candidate. I am so far past them that I dont even hate him anymore, dont feel sorry for him, but really never think about him OR her anymore....and THAT took a long time.


Sorry Hoosier i was referring to One Eighty comment about himself. my bad


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## Lostinthought61

I am so happy for you Hoosier...i hope only the best for both of you


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## Hoosier

One Eighty said:


> This is what pricked up my scooby senses. I heard a lot of uncertainty in these statements.
> 
> I'm sorry I misunderstood. I didn't mean to offend you.
> 
> If you read my story you will see that my WS was perfect for me in every way when we married. I was not so perfect for her. I tried to change. I did change a lot but not enough for her. She cheated, is no longer considered to be a good match for me to settle for, much less perfect. Hence why I divorced her.


No offense taken, I realize these boards can cause misunderstandings because like texting no emotion can be relayed and then you have my clumsy way of answering it can cause less than clarity.

When I was first married (at 21) I went into it thinking that she would change x or y, and we all know how that works out! Now being 58 I realize that who my gf is is who she is, and while there are always SOME things you might change about someone, I honestly can not think of anything that is important to change. (She can be a bit spacey at times, an example: Took her to San Antonio over Spring Break, love that place! We toured the Alamo, they have really imporved the experience over the last few years, we both really enjoyed the history. Her question to me. "This is really interesting, but why did they put this right down town?" LOL LOL she realized what she said almost immediately but still OMG!) 

She is perfect for me, and I love her very much. 

If you changed or didnt change, not a reason to cheat. Thats on her!


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## AVR1962

Good for you for sorting thru your thoughts and reaching out. I wish you the best. It is not easy to date after a divorce from a long-term marriage. So much to work thru in our heads. We want to protect our hearts as we do not want to relive our past or be hurt again so it is not easy to give freely like we once did when we were young and naive. Like you mentioned, our values too shift and change so what allured you as a young person is not as important today. Realizing this and understanding your reasons for not being able to give fully will hopefully help you to open your heart to this woman, and when you do I think this could be an amazing relationship. 

I left my 24 year marriage and have met some wonderful men. I find myself feeling much like yourself in your original post. No longer willing to put up with certain things and not willing to open my heart to hurt and rejection. I too have been contemplating breaking up with a man I have been dating for a year. I know I am not giving my heart to him fully. We have become more friends than anything which is not a bad thing. I have just been wanting a strong emotional connection but if I am the one standing there with my arm keeping him at arm's length the connection cannot be made. Like you, I have some soul searching to do.


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## Hoosier

Update: Hello all. I know some are going to think I maybe acted hastily, but I and my lady were married yesterday! After 7 years of "never again" once we worked thru our issues it was a natural thing to do! We have agreed to many things, one of them being some couples counseling now and in the future, and are both very secure in our choice. People that know us are thrilled for us as they see us as being "made for each other" and say they knew we would reconnect. We got married at the court house with my friend the Judge heading up the ceremony, with my brother and sister in law, her best friend and best friends husband, her mother and mothers boyfriend attending. We then went for a very nice dinner as a group, wonderful time for all. 
I told her that she drives me crazy, but i found out that it was far crazier without her. Wish us the best and let this show that great things do come out of the ashes of bad actions of others. I am VERY happy, and I pledge to make her feel that same/ (I am sure she does already,but I intend to keep it that way). Now off to Vegas for the Holiday weekend. Always said I wouldnt get married in Vegas, but never said I wouldnt get married THEN go to Vegas! lol


Hoosier


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## UpsideDownWorld11

WOW that escalated quickly! Congrats!

eta: Similar situation. After my divorce, I dated someone for a couple months, but I was still in the 'never again' mindset, got scared of committment and broke up with her. Then I missed her, tracked her down, fast forward a couple years and we are now engaged.


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## 3Xnocharm

Congratulations on your happy ending, Hoosier! :woohoo: I'm so happy for you!


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## AVR1962

Congratulations and best to you!!!


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