# If there was no sex - is it ok to find somewhere else?



## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Just a hypothetical question but I've always wondered how I'd react if it ever came to that....

If you were in a relationship that was completely sexless, but apart from that was great, would you consider getting sex somewhere else? Eg. Affair, one night stand, prostitute etc.

Also, if you were, for example, a wife who didnt want sex any more, would you allow your husband to get it elsewhere?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Do you think your wife saying you need to lose weight is just a smoke screen?

Anyway, to answer your question, I would either get a g/f with her permission, or leave. In the end I would leave anyway - as soon as the kids were old enough. I would not cheat. Well that's easier said than done I know, but I don't feel cheating is a good idea. It means that the part of your quote I put in bold is nonsense:



psychocandy said:


> If you were in a relationship that was completely sexless, but *apart from that was great*, would you consider getting sex somewhere else? Eg. Affair, one night stand, prostitute etc.


A relationship that includes lying is not included in my definition of great.


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

I agree with Mark psychocandy.

In the end, if your wife is going to totally cut off sex, and refuse to even work with you, or try . then eventually won't you have to leave? I mean for your own happiness. You can't stay like this forever. If there is absolutely no sex, and no trying for sex, and she doesn't want you at All... then you've got to think whether you want to remain in a sexless marriage for the rest ofyour life. 

Your happiness is important too. I know how hard having sex issues in a marriage can be. But no sex, at all, ever, not very many people can put up with that for very long.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

psychocandy-

Actually, I owe you an apology, because I had somewhat bought into your wife going on about your weight - partly because I thought she was trying to motivate you to be healthy. But when I thought about it, 16 stone is not that bad, unless you are only 5ft high!

My wife likes me to look lean and mean, but she would not cut me off if I got to your weight. however, I have to be brutally frank and say, I would probably not get as much. Also, she is very slim, so I have no excuse.


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

Your situation is a very tough one. It sounds like she is freezing you out in hopes that you will leave or cheat. Thus giving her grounds to leave and not be the person at fault for the marriage ending. I would be tempted if I were you, but I would not give in to temptation here.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

psychocandy-

Just out of interest...
How would you rate yourself on backbone?


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Dancing Nancie said:


> Your situation is a very tough one. It sounds like she is freezing you out in hopes that you will leave or cheat. Thus giving her grounds to leave and not be the person at fault for the marriage ending. I would be tempted if I were you, but I would not give in to temptation here.



Hey, hang on. I wasnt referrring to my own situation here.

Yes, as you can see from previous posts I do have problems in that department. However, judging by other posts it seems I aint the only one.

Its just something that occured to me. My wife has never suggested or offered anythuing like that....


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> psychocandy-
> 
> Actually, I owe you an apology, because I had somewhat bought into your wife going on about your weight - partly because I thought she was trying to motivate you to be healthy. But when I thought about it, 16 stone is not that bad, unless you are only 5ft high!
> 
> My wife likes me to look lean and mean, but she would not cut me off if I got to your weight. however, I have to be brutally frank and say, I would probably not get as much. Also, she is very slim, so I have no excuse.


Hmm. I'm 5ft 8in. I think gor my height and weight, my BMI classes me as VERY OBESE. I used to be MORBIDLY OBESE but not I've lost a little.

I admit I dont look good.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> psychocandy-
> 
> Just out of interest...
> How would you rate yourself on backbone?


Not sure what you're getting at here...

Probably pretty low.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Well, if you had read my article (which I am going to take down soon), on why women go off sex, you would see that not having a backbone is on the list.

I did not put obesity on the list as I thought that was obvious in terms of not being at your most attractive. Again, not wanting to be rude, but you ask about finding it elsewhere in the thread title. Most people who are considering an affair usually take a sudden interest in getting fit, unless they already are.

My old boss's wife always used to say, "I bet he is planning on an affair" if somebody at work who was fat suddenly got slim!

So I want to ask you point blank - do you think your wife is actually trying to save your life and motivate you to lose weight, or is she using it as an excuse?


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Well, if you had read my article (which I am going to take down soon), on why women go off sex, you would see that not having a backbone is on the list.
> 
> I did not put obesity on the list as I thought that was obvious in terms of not being at your most attractive. Again, not wanting to be rude, but you ask about finding it elsewhere in the thread title. Most people who are considering an affair usually take a sudden interest in getting fit, unless they already are.
> 
> ...


I think my wife wants me to lose weight because she thinks its not healthy and because she doesnt fancy me the way I am at the moment...

When we married I was a LOT thinner than I am now. And I have been very poor at making an effort to loose weight and shes been on about it for YEARS !!!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Having sex with someone outside the marriage because you are not getting it at home is a rationalization, not a justification. It is wrong.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> Having sex with someone outside the marriage because you are not getting it at home is a *rationalization*, not a *justification*. It is wrong.


Nicely put distinction, Amp


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

sorry but if there was no sex, id dump and move on. but then i really cannot live in a sexless marriage.
i enjoy sex and to live without my unfortunate vice , would really do my head in.
sex to me is part of love and passion and a relationship. the intimacy and power it can bring to oneself is a massive boost in my case.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

justean, I agree. If my marriage ever went entirely sexless and I could do nothing to change it, I would have to leave. I know eventually I would give into the temptation of cheating so I would save her the hurt of doing that to her and just leave first.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

revitalizedhusband said:


> I know eventually I would give into the temptation of cheating so I would save her the hurt of doing that to her and just leave first.


This is fascinating, to hear you spell that out.

My reason for not cheating (in this situation) would have less to do with not hurting her feelings, and more to do with not going below certain standards that I like to think I live by.

Well, easier said than done, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

actually mark , you are right, its easier said than done. im sticking to it to.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

justean-

Let's be clear what on what I said earlier on. I did not say I would not look elsewhere in this situation, I just said I would not cheat. That means I would not use deception - I would ask permission, or at the very least, announce my intention. But quite frankly, in my opinion, if things get that low, it's probably time to clear off.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

Oh trust me, I would explore every avenue with the wife first. Counseling, what do I need to do to make you want it more, etc before I would ever think of really leaving.

I'm just saying that if she got to that point that nothing will change it, I would have to leave first and look for it somewhere else.


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## lizzy23 (Jan 13, 2009)

How long would a marriage have to go, to consider it sexless??? I think that is a very relative statment... some would say a month, others may say 2 weeks, even maybe a year...In either way that is a sad situation. I would consider that just a friend at some point... And as others have already stated (above) I would think that we should discuss it and maybe go our seperate ways... Cause sex is part of passion, and that is one of the ways that couples express their love for each other..


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> justean-
> 
> Let's be clear what on what I said earlier on. I did not say I would not look elsewhere in this situation, I just said I would not cheat. That means I would not use deception - I would ask permission, or at the very least, announce my intention. But quite frankly, in my opinion, if things get that low, it's probably time to clear off.


i was simply saying i agreed with your words.
"things are easier said than done".

id didnt need to be put clear on n e thing else.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

justean said:


> i was simply saying i agreed with your words.
> "things are easier said than done".
> 
> id didnt need to be put clear on n e thing else.


Sure  All I was saying was that it isn't cheating if you get "permission"


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

ok then , we made up. i agree with those words to.
your shorter version was much better for me to understand - sorry thick brunette.


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## Junebug (Dec 7, 2008)

justean said:


> sorry but if there was no sex, id dump and move on. but then i really cannot live in a sexless marriage.
> i enjoy sex and to live without my unfortunate vice , would really do my head in.
> sex to me is part of love and passion and a relationship. the intimacy and power it can bring to oneself is a massive boost in my case.


Bang on for me too Justean... I couldn't live without sex for sex itself, but also for the emotional connection, the love, and the passion.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Sure  All I was saying was that it isn't cheating if you get "permission"


So you would if given permission? Not sure if I could - it'd be weird. Is there anyone who ever gets permission in a marriage to go outside? (apart from people into swinging obviously).

Dont think anyone else would have me though. Not exactly queuing at the door....


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

OK. So sex is an important part of the marriage, but surely its just one part. Say for the sake of argument 25%.

If the other parts are doing pretty well, then surely its not right to split up over it.

Supposing you'd get like 20 out of 25 for the other 3/4s and 0/25 for sex, you'd still score 60%. Surely this is better than being mediocre is everything (10/25) and scoring 40% total ?

Confusingly put by me. but thats the way I look at it.

For instance, I love my wife to bits, we're good together, have fun together, get on great most of the time. I've got my son who I love to bits too. 

Admitedly, sex life is very poor but if I left her, I'd lose all these other things...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

psychocandy said:


> Surely this is better than being mediocre is everything (10/25) and scoring 40% total ?
> 
> 
> Admitedly, sex life is very poor but if I left her, I'd lose all these other things...


To me, a sexless marriage is the definition of mediocre. Look at yourself man. You are willing to let yourself slide down the toilet. You just don't seem to care. I still can't tell if your wife is secretly trying to manipulate you into being healthier, or if she is simply repulsed or what. Have you asked her how much weight you would have to lose before she would have sex with you? That would be a good litmus test.

If I were your wife right now, I would be very upset. Everything is pointing to one word - lacklustre.

The other you have to bear in mind is that this situation is not stable. You might be willing to settle for a sexless marriage on those terms. You wife, if she has any sex drive at all may have other ideas - ideas that don't involve you.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

ppl have different ideas in relationships. i get an awful lot from sex and what it means in a relationship. i love sex so much it hurts literally . its a huge part of my relationship.

what works for one couple , wont nec work for another.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

justean-
You're in the medical field, can't you just order him to get healthy?


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> justean-
> You're in the medical field, can't you just order him to get healthy?


Mark,

Take your points on board. I do need to pull my finger out and lose some weight and sort things out.

p.s. Justean only lives about 20 miles from me as well !!!! I'm sure she'd 'whip' me into shape !! LOL.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> I still can't tell if your wife is secretly trying to manipulate you into being healthier, or if she is simply repulsed or what. Have you asked her how much weight you would have to lose before she would have sex with you? That would be a good litmus test.


Probably both. Although she does say I should lose weight for me and not just for her.

Is putting a figure on the weight loss good or bad then?

I think at the moment, she refuses to put a figure on it. Fair point I suppose.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

BTW.

Mark - Out of interest, are you a professional counsellor or somehow involved professionally in the relationships area? Or just a keen amateur?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

psychocandy-
I do it full time - see the link in my signature.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

Junebug said:


> Bang on for me too Justean... I couldn't live without sex for sex itself, but also for the emotional connection, the love, and the passion.


right on junebug - i totally agree with you about the emotional connection.


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

psychocandy said:


> Mark,
> 
> Take your points on board. I do need to pull my finger out and lose some weight and sort things out.
> 
> p.s. Justean only lives about 20 miles from me as well !!!! I'm sure she'd 'whip' me into shape !! LOL.


well ive lost 9 pounds in weight since Jan and ive toned up. i reduced the cra* i eat and intake and increased my exercise. im doing a mile on my exercise bike each nite b 4 bed and i dont eat after 8pm. you have to be focused. 

as for the whips - dont tempt me - one in the car from my last riding jaunt and it can have your name on it.


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## Junebug (Dec 7, 2008)

justean said:


> right on junebug - i totally agree with you about the emotional connection.


Justean we always seem to agree... well, except on one topic. Ha ha... :rofl:


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

justean said:


> well ive lost 9 pounds in weight since Jan and ive toned up. i reduced the cra* i eat and intake and increased my exercise. im doing a mile on my exercise bike each nite b 4 bed and i dont eat after 8pm. you have to be focused.
> 
> as for the whips - dont tempt me - one in the car from my last riding jaunt and it can have your name on it.


After a weekend of beer and kebabs, diet starts on monday !!! Coughed up £30 for 10 weeks on the Tesco diet so we'll have a go at that.....

Forgot you were into riding. Handy having a whip !!!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

psychocandy said:


> Forgot you were into riding. Handy having a whip !!!


She's getting us all over excited as usual


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

OK everyone. Some advice needed then. Been married 13 years, together 20 years. Got a son aged 5. 

Wife has never had much of a sexual appetite ever since we first met. Its gone down gradually over the years as well.

She has been trying to tell me about my weight for years I must admit. I did lose some weight but then stopped. I never stick to it.

We even went to conselling a few years ago, for the marriage as whole, and she said then my weight was an issue because she didnt fancy me as much.

Looking back, she has tried other things. Like watching porn together etc. She even tried giving me incentives to loose weight bu putting me on sex rations. So I suppose she has tried.

However, she has admitted that she just cant do it anymore because theres little physical attraction there. However, she says she loves me a lot still.

Situation is not had proper sex for about 9 months or so. Apart from that wife does provide sexual services, without going into detail, on grudging basis every few weeks. She wants me to loose weight but is unwilling to do the sex for weight loss idea.

Apart from that things are pretty good between us. We've had a few hiccups along the way but generally we get on well together, do loads of things together as a family etc. In fact, if sex life were OK I'd be happy with things.

Also, I love her to bits and could never imagine life without her. And of course we both love our little boy. BTW. I'm 41 years old, 5ft 8in and weigh about 16st 6lbs (230lbs). Trouser waist size is 38". So my BMI is 36 or so which puts me firmly in the OBESE category (not just overweight. I used to be worse - 18st 6lbs (258lbs) and have 42" waist. 

Starting diet this week with Tescos. All paid for ready to go. I go to the gym about twice a week but going to try and up this to 3/4 now.

I dont think she'd go for the counselling idea either. I guess she'd say they'd just try and talk her into compromising about sex. I guess she thinks she'd tried for years and I havent done my bit. And she says she cant compromise if she really doesnt feel its there.

So, £64000 question is, what should I do about it? I appreciate losing weight is a good idea anyway for a no of reasons...

A) Think fair enough, shes tried, I havent made a great effort, and suck it up and get on with loosing weight being grateful that shes still offering some services. Would be a tough choice.

B) Make a bit fuss about, and tell her that our marriage is likely to fail unless something changes. Not sure if its worth this.

C) Think stuff her and go and get sex somewhere else. Not keen on this idea. Not fair to wife.

D) Get her permission to get sex elsewhere. Although not exactly queuing at the door so free sex might be awkward !! LOL. Not sure about this - bit weird.

E) Anything else?

Honest answers please!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

psychocandy said:


> Situation is not had proper sex for about 9 months or so. Apart from that wife does provide sexual services, without going into detail, on grudging basis every few weeks. She wants me to loose weight but is unwilling to do the sex for weight loss idea.


This part is confusing me. I thought she was hinting at sex for weight-loss. Are you saying she will not give you any regardless of if you lose weight or not?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

psychocandy said:


> Honest answers please!


Now you know that is not a sensible thing to say when I'm about 

Look at this quote:


psychocandy said:


> OK. So sex is an important part of the marriage, but surely its just one part. Say for the sake of argument 25%.
> 
> If the other parts are doing pretty well, then surely its not right to split up over it.
> 
> ...


It shows me you just don't care about sex all that much. Especially in conjunction with this:



psychocandy said:


> After a weekend of beer and kebabs, diet starts on monday !!!


What exactly are you waiting for? I would be incandescent by now. If I thought it were me, Id' fix it. And If I thought it was her I'd run for the hills. You are just so passive, you just don't care. You whine and you moan but you just don't care. You want your cake and eat it, and a kebab and a beer. Do you smoke as well?


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> This part is confusing me. I thought she was hinting at sex for weight-loss. Are you saying she will not give you any regardless of if you lose weight or not?


No, she doesnt wont do any deals such as lose 5 lbs, get sex etc. I guess she sees this as not working in the past.

She wants me to loose weight for me and to be healthy and she wants to fancy me again. I guess shes saying she doesnt know until I loose any weight how much before I look good again....


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> It shows me you just don't care about sex all that much. Especially in conjunction with this:
> 
> What exactly are you waiting for? I would be incandescent by now. If I thought it were me, Id' fix it. And If I thought it was her I'd run for the hills. You are just so passive, you just don't care. You whine and you moan but you just don't care. You want your cake and eat it, and a kebab and a beer. Do you smoke as well?


I do care about sex but I care about the other things like the rest of my marriage and my son equally. 

I see what you mean though - if I was that bothered I'd do something about it. I guess I can be very infuriating which is probably what my wife sees.

But hey, I cant be totally a lost cause can I? because I'm here asking for advice. And I do really want to do something this time. I realise that in the past I've been VERY lazy.

In terms of whos fault, I'd honestly say 85% me (she has warned me for years and she has tried a fair bit), and 15% her (she could make of an effort to help me)

I have signed up for a diet btw. I've paid £30 for 10 weeks diet plan which is not like me to waste money and get nothing out of it !

p.s. I dont drink a great deal and I dont smoke. I only drink occasionally. Trouble is its been the 6 Nations rugby season which is a big thing in Wales. Last game was this weekend which seemed like a good idea to start my diet.


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Well, psycho.. I feel for you, and although I stand by my original post to you a long time ago, about her loving you regardless of what you look like,,,, if you truly want to lose weight, then you've got to be dead serious about it.

I did notice that you said, after your beer and kabobs, that your diet would start Monday...

That is a Huge no no for someone trying to lose weight. It has to start right now, right here today...

Just resolve yourself, that you're not gonna eat too much, or too many unhealthy things. It's really not a diet thing, so much as it is a lifestyle thing.

You will find that if you just agree to treat your body with respect, and feed it only good things, with the occasional beer, glass of wine, or special treat, notice I said Occasional, then you will see that you not only feel better , but you'll begin to lose weight also.

It's specifically a calories In, calories Out thing.

I have recently lost 11 pounds, and although I was not seriously overweight before, I was a little tight in some of my favorite clothes. So, what did I do? Well, because of my job as a stay at home Mom, it's hard for me to fit in exercise, my son keeps me wayy busy. But I can control what I eat, how much, and the quality of what I eat.

So, I keep a food diary, seriously, I write down Every single thing I eat, and it only takes seconds. Then, I can count up the calories, and see where I am. I do drink, but in moderation, and it has plenty of calories, for instance, a glass of merlot, wine for 4 ounces, has about 95 calories.

You can look up the calorie content of almost any food, and almost any restaurant chain, on CalorieKing - Diet and weight loss. Calorie Counter and more

It's very helpful if you're trying to keep track. You need to figure out how many calories you need every day, for your basal metabolism, meaning the amount you burn, just being alive, without exercise.

Let's say it's 2200 caloires a day, well , since it takes 3500 calories to equal one pound of weight loss, then to lose a pound a week, you'd need to eat 500 calories less, than what you are burning a day. So, that's 1700 calories for you. You'd lose about a pound a week.

You probalby need more than 2200 though, as you're a man, and you're slightly overweight. There are lots of sights on the internet that will tell you how many calories you need, and if you add exercise into the mix, you will burn even more calories.

It's just a portion control, calorie control thing, and try to pick healthy things, and only have a treat once a week, or once every two weeks. 

You can still drink beer or wine, as long as you don't go overboard, and make sure you're not exceeding your calorie needs because of that. 

You'd be surprised how easily it comes when you get into the habit of it. 

In order to lose weight and truly keep it off, it will have to be a lifestyle change. And , sex is a very good form of excersise! hehe...

I wish you luck , you sound like a nice guy. I have a feeling if your wife doesn't step up and realize how good she's got it, someone else will come along someday and steal her cookies... ;-)


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Cheers Marina. Thanks for the good advice. I will look at the website you mentioned.

I have now started my diet you'll be glad to hear. I've signed up for an internet diet plan for 10 weeks to start. Just ate my packet of dried apricots and low fat brekfast bar for breakfast. (Better than my usual chocolate !!).

I know what you mean about my wife but like I said earlier, even though she is being a little short-sighted with her attitude, I do think she has tried and I've let her down too. For her, its not just my weight more of me not bothered with my appearance etc also. I think it all leads towards her thinking I cant be bothered to look nice for her.

Dont think anyone else is going to sweep me away though.... ;-)

To be honest though, I love my wife to bits, and I dont want anyone else. I guess thats another reason why the option of leaving is not acceptable - I dont want sex with anyone else other than my wife...

(OK, rememeber the band The Bangles? Now I might make an exception for Susanna Hoffs the lead singer. LOL. Although not seen her for years so she might be a bit rough now).


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

psychocandy said:


> After a weekend of beer and kebabs, diet starts on monday !!! Coughed up £30 for 10 weeks on the Tesco diet so we'll have a go at that.....
> 
> Forgot you were into riding. Handy having a whip !!!


you just need to be focused. dont spend money where u dont need to . obviously if u find something that suits u , give it a go.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

justean said:


> you just need to be focused. dont spend money where u dont need to . obviously if u find something that suits u , give it a go.


Yeh. It wasnt that bad though and its given me an idea on what to eat. To be honest, I hate wasting money, so since I've paid it might encourage me to stick to it so I dont waste my money !

I'm a bit like that with the gym. I pay montly whether I go or not so if I dont go its a waste of money !!!


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

well thats good. then you have your focus.


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

LOL yeah, I love the bangles. Walk like an egyptian! ;-)

Well, your devotion to your wife, is heart warming, and all the more reason she is so lucky to have you.

I can see her side of it too. It's just what you're willing to do, or put up with. I think if you really get motivated enough, you'll be able to get there. And you will I'm sure feel much better if you drop a bit of weight, more energized.

Well, think of it like this. You've got to be around for your son, so that when he's older, he can look to you, as a man for guidance. 

If you aren't healthy, you might not be able to be there for him.

He is young right? Or is he a teen already? At any rate, being in good health, is the nicest thing you can do for you, your kids, and your wife, since it means you'll likely stick around for a long time! 

I know you can do it psychocandy... don't give up till you reach your goal! ;-)


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Marina,

Thanks for the encouragement....

Yes, my little lad is 5 years old. Got tons of energy....


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

LOl... kids are a lot of work, but worth every minute of it.

I have a 22 month old son! man oh man does he keep me tired! LOL...

My daughter from a previous marriage is 11, almost 12, so I've got em 10 years apart. between all the extracurricular stuff she does, her school work, diapers, the store, house work, yard work, church, and anything else you can think of, well, it's tiring! 

I know how you feel hehe...

I think that once your wife sees you really making an effort, and sees you dressed up in some nice diggs, that she's going to be back on board for this marriage.

You have a nice family, and that's worth it's weight in gold. 

Keep everyone posted on how it's going, and you can always get support when you need it. ;-)


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

marina72 said:


> LOl... kids are a lot of work, but worth every minute of it.
> 
> I have a 22 month old son! man oh man does he keep me tired! LOL...
> 
> ...



Marina,

Yeh. Hope so. I think I need to make a bit more effort with mt appearance etc in general not just my weight...


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Anyway, to answer your question, I would either get a g/f with her permission, or leave.


MT,

just looking over this old thread and this sentence seemed to strike a note with something my has said recently.

As you might rememeber from some of my posts, I dont get as much as I'd like to. Be it my fault for being overweight or hers because thats the way shes always been- probably a bit of both.

Anyway, we've got friends who are swingers so the subject comes up. Wife not interested at all and me, wouldnt be able to cope with something banging my wife... However, our friends have told us about solo swingers (people who are married but swing with their partners consent).

My wife has made some strange comments about this recently. Almost as if shes giving me permission. (could be in my head though - LOL).

Not sure if I could anyway? Certainly couldnt handle it if wife said it was OK for me but then decided she could as well if you know what I mean.

Also, bit of a difficult subject to bring up. So you were saying darling, you dont mind if I bang other women?

Has anyone else solved thier mismatched sex drive issue by doing this sort of thing?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

psychocandy said:


> Also, bit of a difficult subject to bring up. So you were saying darling, you dont mind if I bang other women?


I think it would be interesting if you said EXACTLY that to her to gauge her reaction. However, I don't think swinging is for you. But pretending you were interested might be an interesting game to play, in as much as she's giving you hints.



psychocandy said:


> My wife has made some strange comments about this recently. Almost as if shes giving me permission. (could be in my head though - LOL).


This is your intuition picking up on something. It took me years to realise that these little hints are women's ways of communicating. If you felt, something, it was probably there. But don't be a fool and be too direct. Ask her questions, but ask her sideways. "What do you think of people who do such and such". As more and more info comes out, you can build up to being more direct. Women of her type prefer to keep the pretence that you are talking about someone else, even though they know it's just a game. Don't spoil it for her. Keep the game going.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

PC,
I find you to be an entertaining sort, and you also appear to have some sense. So - hmmm - you have a choice here. You can lose weight, get in really good shape and do a few clever relationship things that will likely make your wife more sexual with you. Or you can introduce a huge amount of volatility and risk in your marriage by swinging. 

I realize that I have an unfair advantage here. I was born with a good metabolism, a fondness for exercise and enough vanity to motivate me to keep myself looking very fit. Not just lean - but muscular. And I somehow married someone who still likes sex with me - really truly likes it - after 20 years. So there is no way I would let myself get out of shape because I love regular, super high quality sex. 

I don't think just getting fit will do it for you. I think you are going to need to create some relationship uncertainty so your wife feels she has to fight for you. But I would NOT do that by swinging. Even if my wife said I could - which she would NOT in a million years - I would be terrified of her changing her mind. 

By the way this is not about morals - it is about divorce statistics - do some research about swingers. Probabilistically they come to a bad end. 








psychocandy said:


> MT,
> 
> just looking over this old thread and this sentence seemed to strike a note with something my has said recently.
> 
> ...


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

MEM11363 said:


> PC,
> I find you to be an entertaining sort, and you also appear to have some sense. So - hmmm - you have a choice here. You can lose weight, get in really good shape and do a few clever relationship things that will likely make your wife more sexual with you. Or you can introduce a huge amount of volatility and risk in your marriage by swinging.
> 
> I realize that I have an unfair advantage here. I was born with a good metabolism, a fondness for exercise and enough vanity to motivate me to keep myself looking very fit. Not just lean - but muscular. And I somehow married someone who still likes sex with me - really truly likes it - after 20 years. So there is no way I would let myself get out of shape because I love regular, super high quality sex.
> ...


Glad I'm entertaining !!!! LOL

Yeh. I know what you mean - it might be like opening a can of worms. For instance, what if she was happy for me to do it and then further on down the line decided she wanted to do it also? Wouldnt work for me at all but I suppose whats good for the goose.....

Didnt realise that about divorce among swingers? It is higher you say. I thought it would have been the opposite because usaully the people who do this are confident and secure in their own relationship or they wouldnt do it??


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

First of all, in a marriage, when one partner does something the other gains the right to do the same (it's human, if she'll ever want to sleep with another man, yeah sure, she might do it anyway, but if you've already swinged, be sure she will...cuz you did it already so it's kind of okay). 

Why do you assume that people who swing are more confident and secure in their relationship? They are people too. There is a reason why people decided to be monogamous. It was a 'you don't hurt me, i don't hurt you' decission. 

As for your post. Yes, your wife needs a bit of uncertainty. But you need to be worth fighting for if you want her to fight.  If i were you i'd loose the weight ...start looking attractive, and right after that throw hints that other women are noticing me. Also pretend to be less interested in her. That is an ellegant way of winning her back, without risking your marriage over sleeping with someone else.


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Cheers nekko. The 'you did so its ok' thing is what would probably stop me doing this.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think pretending to be interested if you are not is a dangerous game. She will remember it and hold it against you forever, even if she returns to the relationship properly. You will have broken trust. It isn't always the act that breaks trust. It is the threat. It is that you'd risk her.

If you are going to risk her, be honest and tell her you will divorce if you are willing. But to play that game, believe me, a woman can get more sex than a man can and she may pay you back in spades.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

lizzy23 said:


> How long would a marriage have to go, to consider it sexless??? I think that is a very relative statment... some would say a month, others may say 2 weeks, even maybe a year...In either way that is a sad situation. I would consider that just a friend at some point... And as others have already stated (above) I would think that we should discuss it and maybe go our seperate ways... Cause sex is part of passion, and that is one of the ways that couples express their love for each other..


I read this thread, and the whole things seemed as though it was a conversation between two posters, but this does need to be addressed too. My husband would define a sexless marriage as two weeks (probably two days if he didn't work nights occasionally) other family members have gone 8 YEARS (REALLY!), and one went nearly 6 YEARS with no sex and hubby died (natural), but she did give him permission to have sex with someone so long as emotions didn't get involved, not sure how that would work :scratchhead: 

While two weeks shouldn't be considered a sexless marriage, 8 years is a stretch. Although, wouldn't one consider a sexless marriage of that stretch a marriage of convenience, 401 K, retirement inheritance, something? Maybe it depends on age. What if you're 93 and she's 65, the SS is about to go the state, so why not get a dependent to get those benefits, what if you don't have kids, what if you're weathly, own half a town, no dependents? Everything goes to the state, you don't want that, do you? I'm thinking outloud. Timeframe is important in the definition of a sexless marriage, that's all I've got.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LOL - timing is everything

When my wife had a condition that lasted 2 months - I was patient and we had no stress. She amused me on occasion during that time, and she would have done so at least weekly had I pushed a little. I didn't because I wanted her to feel like I was her partner and would wait it out. 

But if there were no health issues, then I would escalate very quickly. You know I never really thought about it but even though my wife is the low libido spouse I have always determined frequency. Not in a jerky way, I definitely take her desires into account. But if I really want to, she absolutely feels like it is her job to connect with me. 

So I admit to not grasping these marriages where there is a total breakdown in bed. 





Cherry said:


> I read this thread, and the whole things seemed as though it was a conversation between two posters, but this does need to be addressed too. My husband would define a sexless marriage as two weeks (probably two days if he didn't work nights occasionally) other family members have gone 8 YEARS (REALLY!), and one went nearly 6 YEARS with no sex and hubby died (natural), but she did give him permission to have sex with someone so long as emotions didn't get involved, not sure how that would work :scratchhead:
> 
> While two weeks shouldn't be considered a sexless marriage, 8 years is a stretch. Although, wouldn't one consider a sexless marriage of that stretch a marriage of convenience, 401 K, retirement inheritance, something? Maybe it depends on age. What if you're 93 and she's 65, the SS is about to go the state, so why not get a dependent to get those benefits, what if you don't have kids, what if you're weathly, own half a town, no dependents? Everything goes to the state, you don't want that, do you? I'm thinking outloud. Timeframe is important in the definition of a sexless marriage, that's all I've got.


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## coffee bean (Apr 3, 2009)

Yeah Cherry, my husband would define a sexless marriage as two weeks as well - lol. I think the longest we went without was 2 or 3 weeks when he was working night and day to get a project finished for a client. In those days I was happy with a lot less than he was, and even I was getting restless.

My opinions about this subject (ie is it ok to go elsewhere?) have changed a lot over the years, partly because I talk to a lot of guys who are in this situation. They range from late 30s to late 60s and for a whole variety of reasons their long term partners won't or can't give them sex. Almost without exception they say have a good relationship in terms of friendship/companionship with their spouses and they are reluctant to rock the boat by trying to sort out the sex angle with any degree of determination. (The wives won't discuss it usually and it ends in arguments). They have become sunk in the cosy familiarity of the marriage even though they are going off their heads after years of sexual rejection coupled with not being allowed to shag anyone else.

Not many are thinking about delivering the ultimatum MT is always talking about (ie let's have sex or I'm off) - even though they are suffering badly - sometimes they just say, well that's the way the cookie crumbles, you can't have it all etc. 

It boils down to that they are not willing to look at stuff - is it me? is it her? What have we both done/not done for it to get like this? On some level the rut is familiar and it's just a nagging ache they learn to live with.

So these days I am more likely to say - yes - go and get it elswhere because part of the marriage vow is about sexual exclusivity. If one partner withholds completely (other than for health reasons) then they themselves are breaking the marriage contract in my view.

I'd love to hear from men who are/were in that position and what they are doing/did about it, if anything.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

coffee bean said:


> Yeah Cherry, my husband would define a sexless marriage as two weeks as well - lol.


No fair! I always said I would give you at least 2 1/2 weeks before filing


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## trev (May 23, 2009)

Reinvent yourself .. keep with the weight loss go to the gym and smarten up .. go buy new clothes aftershave make her want you !!! 

you managed to win her over once she married you ! dont become borring !! get out and work on your self esstem your appeareace.

you are in charge of your life you can be borring which = borring sex ..or reinvent yourself become exciting motivate your self to reach your goal !


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## psychocandy (Apr 28, 2008)

Funnily enough we had a chat this weekend. We discussed her low sex drive and she has said that as shes got older it seems to get less and less. Like I said before she was always like this to a certain extent.

She said she felt really guilty that my needs werent being met and that I had married the wrong girl. I definitely havent because I love her to bits and everything else makes up for it.

Anyway, she said she'd try harder for me but, she said it'd be OK for me to sleep with someone else like a prostitute or go to swinging websites as long as it was just for physical means.

Didnt know what to say !!!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I feel bad for anyone in such a situation and I could never judge them- if they broke down & found a Lover. Me & Husband has talked about this subject--we are very very open about anything/everything sexual. He says, if God forbid, I could not give him sex (example Quadraplegic), that he could go without it and remain faithful to me. But he also knows I could NOT be that faithful & good, I am weaker than him & sorry to say, I would become resentful of him, and probably so depressed I would have to be on medication to cope with life. We have alot of kids & he would not want to break up the marraige, he would give me permission to find a Lover. Chances are these terrible devastating things will never happen, but darn, I am lucky to have a man who loves me that much. There was a Bristish movie dealing with this subject called "Breaking the Waves" Very very emotional & heartbreaking, I never forgot it.


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