# Wanted to say thanks to the folks posting here



## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I wanted to say thank you to the folks posting here.

To be honest & clear, I'm not married. However after 15 years together, it was much more than a typical relationship. Most friends and family just referred to her as my wife, and I thought of her that way myself. Just never got married. Due to this, I'm not sure that this is really the place for me to vent, as I wouldn't want to offend anyone with so much on their plate already.

But over the last few weeks, reading these forums and understanding what other folks have gone through, has helped me quite a bit. It's gotten me to think about what's really important in a marriage or relationship. It's also given me some insight into how people try to reconcile, so I can at least say I've tried everything I could before she leaves.

Maybe most importantly, it's reminded me others have and are going through similar troubles, and are able to come back from it. That whether it be reconciling, or beginning a new life, a man can start over.

Thank you,

guy who feels like he's been hit by a brick


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

You can vent to us all you need. We are quite friendly


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## Kolors (Sep 27, 2013)

I wish I would have found this place years ago before I had problems in my relationship!

It has really helped me to see that my problems are along the lines of many people here. I love to see the stories of people who bounce back from adversity and hate it when I see someone on the brink of happiness just before their world is ripped out from under them.

I have received much better advice here than I have from my personal friends. I have been told things that both build me up and tear me down here as well. People here are honest and for the most part caring since each has a story to tell.

I love that what I thought was important a few months ago, really is not what I think is important now. This place and counseling have helped me realize that.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Welcome to TAM. We'll take good care of you here .

15 years is a very long time, so I think we'll be able to overlook the fact that you aren't married . 

The advice here is great, you can learn so much. Whether it's from direct replies, or just reading the threads of others. Everyone has a heartbreaking story to tell, but it's really amazing to see the progress people make from their first post to their most recent one.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> I wanted to say thank you to the folks posting here.
> 
> To be honest & clear, I'm not married. However after 15 years together, it was much more than a typical relationship. Most friends and family just referred to her as my wife, and I thought of her that way myself. Just never got married. Due to this, I'm not sure that this is really the place for me to vent, as I wouldn't want to offend anyone with so much on their plate already.
> 
> ...



So, you want to tell us about your "brick"?


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## Kerosene Hat (Nov 12, 2013)

Ha, I know the feeling of being hit by a brick. I got hit by a bus and am just now starting to think about looking for a spatula to scrape me off the pavement. Good news: I wake up early. Bad news: I stay in bed for 2-3 hours after waking up. One day and moment at a time. I just made a trip to a shop we both like last night and was proud that I:

A) was able to talk to the shoe saleswoman (running store) about my new interest in running without mentioning the STBXW who got me into it
B) I held a pleasant, brief conversation with the same woman, who is quite pretty (she was getting paid but it still halfway counts) and ask her name (women don't bite, lol)
C) I held the years back til I was almost back in my car


For me, just being able to make this trip happen and interact with an attractive woman. Eventually, I hope to be able to experience a healthy, mutual love again. It sure seems hopeless about 23.5 hrs out of the day. We were together almost nine years.

Hang in there. I can only share that I am going through something similar now and wish you the best. You deserve to be able to experience a healthy life and relationship if that's what you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kerosene Hat (Nov 12, 2013)

Ha, I know the feeling of being hit by a brick. I got hit by a bus and am just now starting to think about looking for a spatula to scrape me off the pavement. Good news: I wake up early. Bad news: I stay in bed for 2-3 hours after waking up. One day and moment at a time. I just made a trip to a shop we both like last night and was proud that I:

A) was able to talk to the shoe saleswoman (running store) about my new interest in running without mentioning the STBXW who got me into it
B) I held a pleasant, brief conversation with the same woman, who is quite pretty (she was getting paid but it still halfway counts) and ask her name (women don't bite, lol)
C) I held the years back til I was almost back in my car


For me, just being able to make this trip happen and interact with an attractive woman. Eventually, I hope to be able to experience a healthy, mutual love again. It sure seems hopeless about 23.5 hrs out of the day. We were together almost nine years.

Hang in there. I can only share that I am going through something similar now and wish you the best. You deserve to be able to experience a healthy life and relationship if that's what you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks everyone. I wasn't really sure what to expect after posting here, and I'm glad I seem to be welcome here after all.

As for what I'm going through, we've been together for 15 years, and in my eyes most of them good. Just the last few years have been rocky. We got together pretty young (17-18), and maybe that's part of the problem. We started out dating while we both lived at home. About 6 months after I got my own place, she kept staying over more & more, until she just stopped at home for laundry. After a while, I decided she was a keeper & suggested we find a new place & move in together. Lived together since. We had our issues here and there like anyone, but were happy. She went from her parents to living with me, and has never lived on her own.

These last 2-3 years have been rough. About 4 years ago she took a job on 2nd shift, with rotating days off. I wasn't happy about it, but since she had put up with my previous works schedules (1 yr on 3rd, & 10yrs working Sat's), I figured I had to deal with it. These last few years it's worn me down a lot. It's hard to have a relationship seeing each other a few times a week. And when she'd have her days off, she'd want to see friends as well. Meaning even less time for us.

We've never been as involved in each others lives as we should have been. We let each other do our own thing for a long time, and through a lot of that we thought it was good, that each of us could be independent. But I've realized now that long term this was very bad, too much separation between us. Not enough joint friends, activities, etc. We still have a lot in common, but allowed our own needs to take precedent, instead of our needs together.

She's told me a couple times the last few years that she was unhappy, and considering leaving. I'd convince her we could work things out. We'd make some changes short term, but never really had the communication to know whether there were still issues, and ended up falling into old habits.

About 4 weeks ago she told me she's moving out. It was different than before. Felt like I got hit in the head by a brick, suddenly realizing things were worse than I thought, and this was real. She said we had just grown apart, and she wanted to be on her own. I tried to get her to stay, but failed. Basically walking around in a daze for days.

After a few days I realized I needed to straighten out some things in my life, and decided I was committed to doing whatever it took to make things work between us. I started taking a hard look at myself & our relationship, and didn't like what I saw. Spending little time together had put me in a slump these last few years where I stopped wanting to go out, or do new things. I just stayed focused on when I would see her next, and when I did I still didn't want to go out & do things with our friends, just wanted to spend as much time together as possible. I started over-analyzing everything, put a lot of stress on her, and focused on a lot of areas in our relationship that were just symptoms of our actual problems. I started to realize our real issues. Her hours, my slump/depression, little communication, and simply just too much time apart.

I tried to come out of it and do everything I could to save what was left of our relationship. Wanted to make a fresh start of things, and work together like we should have from the start. But everything I've done has made her dig her heels in more. I've tried getting more active (running, exercise, dance class), and she told me she resented that I was only making these changes now. I tried to convince her that counseling could help, and she shot me down immediately. With her moving out seeming inevitable, I tried to sit down and work out some sort of groundwork for a separation and a plan to work on us, and she refused.

She won't start a serious conversation with me since telling me she's leaving, I've had to initiate every one. She refuses to make any plans for the future, except for moving to her father's. She refuses to discuss any chance of us working together to fix our relationship.

I feel like the only traction I've made was when we talked about her hours, and she accidently mentioned that they were changing to something more reasonable. When I calmed down enough to be able to talk, I told her that while she harbors resentment towards me for not being involved enough in her life, I'm resentful that she put her job ahead of us when she knew it made me miserable. She got quiet for a while, and I think that sunk in. We both eventually admitted that neither of us understood what it meant that it takes work to keep a relationship good, or what was needed.

My take on this, which I have told her repeatedly, is that if we made it 15 years without a clue, if we work together now we could be better than ever. I want to take this as an opportunity, not just call it a failure. And right now she just wants to leave, and make no commitments to try to reconcile.

I feel like I've tried everything I can, and just keep failing. She tells me she still loves me and that I'll always be a part of her life, yet she's still leaving. I'm trying for a real commitment & effort between us, and she just wants to walk away & be on her own. She said she still wants to be friends and have me in her life, but that's just not possible. We did agree a few days ago that we should sit down and talk sometime after she leaves and we've had some time to calm down, but I have no idea where that will go. 

Today, she's moving out of the house. She said she would either have her things moved today, or possibly have to move a few small things tomorrow. When I get home, I have no idea what I'm walking into. Either a half empty house, or a woman nearly moved out that will barely talk to me. Either way, I have no idea what I'm coming home to, or which would be easier. And I have no idea if I'm just hurting us both trying to hang on, or if I'm doing the right thing. I love her and want her in my life, and want to us to really be a part of each others lives. But she won't talk about the future past moving out, and it's leaving me jumping from emotion to emotion. I'm just at a complete loss at this point.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Well I came home to nearly all of her things gone. She's staying at her dad's tonight, and coming back for the rest of her things tomorrow. I have no idea if I'll see her tomorrow or not. Not sure which would be easier, or even which I prefer. Not feeling like there's any good way this can go tomorrow.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> Well I came home to nearly all of her things gone. She's staying at her dad's tonight, and coming back for the rest of her things tomorrow. I have no idea if I'll see her tomorrow or not. Not sure which would be easier, or even which I prefer. Not feeling like there's any good way this can go tomorrow.


I'm sorry you're going through this. I remember the day I got home to find my STBXW's stuff mostly gone, I actually felt relieved, aside from the few choice hurtful things she left in the top of the waste paper basket - wedding photos, a gift she bought me on our wedding day, and some lingerie that I had bought her.

The best thing you can do is implement the 180, work on yourself and prepare for a future without her in it. It's not easy, but it gets easier the more you do it. 

Keep posting here, and also read the threads of others, there's some great advice in them that you can apply to your own situation.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Been doing some more reading here & realized I've got some serious co-dependency issues with her. As much as I want to get back together with her, I'm not sure I'm even capable of following through with my intentions to make a fresh start with her until I make some changes and start worrying about myself for a change. 

Saw some book recommendations here & online, going to check those out this weekend.

Maybe us getting away from each other from each is a good thing. Maybe she'll re-examine what she really wants, & if she would be interested in a more healthy relationship with me. At the least, I think I need to do this for myself. Maybe that's what the 180 thing is about, I'm not really sure.

Right now I just hope I can stick to this resolve. I'm a lot more clear headed during the day when I'm at work & occupied. Find myself having a lot more trouble & a change in attitude when I get home.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Hit, good for you - you're beginning to take an objective perspective on your situation.

The 180 is all about focusing on yourself and creating a better, healthier life for yourself, inside and out - regardless of whether or not she wants to be a part of that. The 180 is NOT about getting her back, though that does happen for some. The 180 is about getting you through this difficult time and healing.

Good luck, and don't be too hard on yourself if you backslide. It happens to all of us -- ask anyone here. Forgive yourself, re-commit, and keep moving forward. The little changes will add up quickly for you.

*high five*


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Figured this deserved an update. She just left & is officially moved out. Left 2 wardrobes & a bicycle. I know she wants the bicycle back, not sure if she cares about the wardrobes.

We spent about 3 hours talking, and realized we're on the same page with a lot of things. Neither of us wanted the relationship to stay the way it was, and we both failed at keeping it going. I was clear that I did want to get back together, but not like we were. She did at least agree that if we were to get back together we would both have to go all in and put forth the effort. Also agreed that if one of us feels the need to date, or goes on a date, we would talk about it. Although right now I don't think either of us is interested in that. She doesn't want to tell her casual friends about us splitting because she doesn't want to invite that kind of attention.

The main difference between us is that I want to try & work things out, and she feels it would be dishonest to make any promises at this point. We agreed to meet again in a few weeks & see where we both stand. I think she needs some time away from me to sort out what she wants, and I realized I need the time away from her to focus on myself.

I feel strange right now. I actually feel good that she's gone. I expected to crash, and I probably will, but it's like the weight is off of me. Not having to see her & be rejected, not having to watch more & more things move out every day. Not feeling like a prisoner in my own home.

I think she'll be open to trying to work things out eventually, or at least I want to think so. I probably won't really have a clue until I see her next. Right now I want to be able to just focus on myself, do this 180, and not worry about her until then. I know I won't be able to keep this focus all the time, but I hope I can as much as possible.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> I think she'll be open to trying to work things out eventually, or at least I want to think so. I probably won't really have a clue until I see her next. Right now I want to be able to just focus on myself, do this 180, and not worry about her until then. I know I won't be able to keep this focus all the time, but I hope I can as much as possible.


Stop this train of thought - forget all possibility of R, otherwise all of the work you do on yourself will be tainted by hopes of R.

Prepare for the worst, then you'll be prepared for anything. 

When you see her next, don't bring up reconciling. If she wants to talk about it, she will bring it up. Just keep focusing on you, make some genuine changes and demonstrate them.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

WantWifeBack said:


> Stop this train of thought - forget all possibility of R, otherwise all of the work you do on yourself will be tainted by hopes of R.
> 
> Prepare for the worst, then you'll be prepared for anything.
> 
> When you see her next, don't bring up reconciling. If she wants to talk about it, she will bring it up. Just keep focusing on you, make some genuine changes and demonstrate them.


:iagree:

It's a hard pill to swallow, but WantWifeBack is on the money here. You would be wise to take his advice.

Worrying/think about what she may or may not do is a waste of your time and energy -- time and energy that would be better spent working on yourself. You can't control or influence her choices or her actions; the only thing you can impact and change is yourself. So focus on that.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It's a hard pill to swallow, but WantWifeBack is on the money here. You would be wise to take his advice.
> 
> Worrying/think about what she may or may not do is a waste of your time and energy -- time and energy that would be better spent working on yourself. You can't control or influence her choices or her actions; the only thing you can impact and change is yourself. So focus on that.


Of course, I'm always right . I just wish I could listen to my own advice sometimes .

I know exactly how you're feeling hitbyabrick. You want your wife back, fiercely. You want nothing more in this world, and everyone is telling you to forget about it. It's frustrating, and 9 times out of 10, people here will tell you what you don't want to hear, but it's what you _need_ to hear. It can be quite frustrating, I know. You just want to log-in and see a post that says:

"Hey, don't worry about it, it'll all be alright, she'll come back champ, I just know it."

But the reality is, none of us know the future. All we can do now is try to advise you on how to handle the present. And the present is sh*tty.

By focusing on yourself, you'll be able to make those positive changes in your life, you'll be in a better state of mental health too.

So, focus on you, change yourself for the better, and do it for *you*. If your wife likes what she sees and starts talking about R, then that's great. If she doesn't, well you'll be just fine because you've worked on making yourself happy, you'll have your confidence back, your self-respect, and a thousand hard lessons learned.

You really can't lose here.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I have to ask why after 15 years you're not married? It's not a judgment, I ask because unless it's something both of you have agreed upon a lot of women will start to resent this. They're good enough to live with and all the benefits that come from that but they're not quite good enough to marry. Kinda like always having one foot a little out the door; this is something many men don't want to hear but a lot of women think, and they won't necessarily tell you for fear that they don't want to nag you into it. It sounds like you have bigger problems now, but it's something to consider. The same people that claim it's not important will still refer to their SO as their "wife".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It's a hard pill to swallow, but WantWifeBack is on the money here. You would be wise to take his advice.
> 
> Worrying/think about what she may or may not do is a waste of your time and energy -- time and energy that would be better spent working on yourself. You can't control or influence her choices or her actions; the only thing you can impact and change is yourself. So focus on that.


In my head, I know you're both right. I know my focus has to be me. But my heart, well, it keeps wanting to think about what could be. I'm trying to keep myself occupied, or focused on getting myself back together, but some days it's hard.

I spent the 1st couple nights drinking & just trying to push everything out of my mind for a while. I had fun, but I know I can't do that every night. Since then I've been trying to work on myself, & get the house in order. Been reading Codependant No More. It's a good book, and it's scary how much of it applies to how I was living the last few years. Reading it seems to help keep me focused for a while. As for the house, she left with most of the important kitchen items among other things. After a few days, and a few expensive trips, I've got my kitchen setup with most of what I need. Kind of silly, but I was really excited when I was finally able to cook again on Tues. Ended up feeling pretty good for most of this week.

Been having a rough time since last night though. I was going to be in the neighborhood, so I dropped off her mail at her dad's since I knew she wouldn't be home. Thought it would be a good idea, but I think I was wrong. Seeing her dad was hard. Then ended up getting a text today saying thanks for dropping off the mail, which turned into a text conversation for a while. Didn't talk about anything serious, and I don't know if that made it better or worse. But something that small has had me screwed up all day.

I think I see why I keep seeing no contact brought up so much here. It's just too hard to deal with. Right now I'm torn between wanting to forget about her & wanting her back. I do want to work things out, but every time I think about it I end up feeling worse, like I'm giving myself hope and then tearing it away.

I want to keep working on myself, but try & keep possibilities open between us. But I don't know if that can actually work the way I want it to. Do I just need to work on myself, try not to think about her, and just accept whatever is going to happen will happen? Or am I still stuck and looking at this the wrong way?


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> Of course, I'm always right . I just wish I could listen to my own advice sometimes .
> 
> I know exactly how you're feeling hitbyabrick. You want your wife back, fiercely. You want nothing more in this world, and everyone is telling you to forget about it. It's frustrating, and 9 times out of 10, people here will tell you what you don't want to hear, but it's what you _need_ to hear. It can be quite frustrating, I know. You just want to log-in and see a post that says:
> 
> ...


I just realized this hit a 2nd page. Your post hit home pretty hard. I do still want her back, and I do still want to hear that she'll come back eventually, whether it's true or not.

I know in my head when I'm thinking clearly that working on myself is better for me whatever the outcome. But I'm having a hard time shutting up the part of me that just wants her back already, whether I'm ready or not.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have to ask why after 15 years you're not married? It's not a judgment, I ask because unless it's something both of you have agreed upon a lot of women will start to resent this. They're good enough to live with and all the benefits that come from that but they're not quite good enough to marry. Kinda like always having one foot a little out the door; this is something many men don't want to hear but a lot of women think, and they won't necessarily tell you for fear that they don't want to nag you into it. It sounds like you have bigger problems now, but it's something to consider. The same people that claim it's not important will still refer to their SO as their "wife".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A few weeks back a good friend threw out a similar concept & got me thinking about this. With most of her friends married, his thought was that it was getting to her. He doesn't really know her that well, but he was trying to give me some ideas.

Quite honestly, I was against marriage for a lot of years. I watched my parents divorce when I was a kid, and saw how my father ended up having to live after ending up with almost nothing. I've watched friends & coworkers divorce, and seen what they went through. About all I can say is that it scared me, and made me equate marriage with divorce & losing everything.

At some point my outlook did change. I'm not sure exactly when. But at some point I stopped thinking of her as my girlfriend, and more as a wife. But by then, getting married didn't seem to be an issue for her, and it wasn't something that ever came up.

As for her standpoint, she eventually decided that it wasn't important to her. Something she said to me while we were talking the day she left, that to her it meant more that we stayed together without it. Maybe that's true, maybe it's just something she's telling me, or telling herself. I really don't know at this point.

I do feel pretty confused on the topic at this point. After seeing the things we both did wrong, I've wondered if things would have been better or worse if we had been married. Maybe we'd have tried harder, or maybe it would have made this worse. 

Oddly I don't find myself falling back into my old views on marriage through this. I've been spending a lot of time thinking about what I want in life, and one of the few things I'm certain about right now is that I do want to be in a a good, healthy, functional, committed relationship. I'm not saying tomorrow, or that I'm going to do anything foolish to get her back, just that it is something I want in life. Whether that will involve marriage or not, I just don't know right now.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Do I just need to work on myself, try not to think about her, and just accept whatever is going to happen will happen?


Yes, this is EXACTLY what you should be doing. You need to accept that you can't control everything in your life. It's impossible. You need to let go of your need for control in regards to your (former) relationship, and accept that she is an agent of her own free will, and that you cannot know or influence what she will do. The only thing you can control is yourself.

Right now, you're caught in a quagmire of emotion, and you can't see the forest for the trees. You need to detach so that you can look at your situation with a more objective, forest-level view. Focusing on yourself and going no contact will help immensely with that (out of sight, out of mind, bro).

I know all of this is scary, and you're worried you're going to lose her. But here's the thing: you've already lost her. And if you can get some perspective and focus on yourself, you might find, after all this is said and done, that you don't want her back. That you might be better off without her.

Us humans, we want love and belonging so much that we are willing to sacrifice our dignity, our sense of self, and everything we have just to get it. And from what I see here on the forums, we frequently do so for the wrong person, and we hang on to a bad relationship and that wrong person for far too long, as if our lives depended on it. And that's all backwards, because the longer we hang on to an unhealthy relationship, trying to "make it work" with someone who is so wrong for us, the more it breaks us down and kills our souls.

You need to let go. You need to let go of her, and in the process reclaim yourself. There is a happy ending here - it just might not be the one you were expecting.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> I just realized this hit a 2nd page. Your post hit home pretty hard. I do still want her back, and I do still want to hear that she'll come back eventually, whether it's true or not.
> 
> I know in my head when I'm thinking clearly that working on myself is better for me whatever the outcome. But I'm having a hard time shutting up the part of me that just wants her back already, whether I'm ready or not.


Give it time hitbyabrick. Eventually, you won't want her back, and that part of you won't exist, and I'm not going to lie, when you realise that, it will shock you, and may make you feel a little sad. But that's the goal here. Let it go, let her go. 

The only way to have any shot of things working out, IF she does come back, is by letting it go, and giving up all hope. Everything you do needs to be genuine, and you need to do it for you. She would need to do the same. Neither of you can do that whilst you're hanging on the hope of R.

Of course you're having a hard time, during my IC the other day my counsellor explained to me that divorce/the end of a LTR is one of the most stressful things someone can go through in life. Not only is it stressful, but you're emotionally in tatters, probably aren't sleeping or eating well, you probably feel physically run down, I know I did for a long while to begin with. 



> I know all of this is scary, and you're *worried you're going to lose her*. *But* here's the thing: *you've already lost her.*


Now it's FiP's turn to be on the money - It's a harsh truth, and it took me a while to realise it, but when I did, things started drastically improving for me.

I spent ages thinking "I don't want to lose her, I CAN'T lose her" but when I took a step back, looked at it from "50k" (A term you see here quiet often) I realised, that I had already lost her, what I feared most had already happened. That's when I realised it was beyond my control and I had to take care of myself.

You'll realise it too, we can tell you until we're blue in the face, but you wont *feel* it until you realise it for yourself.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks, this is giving me some perspective. I spent weeks agonizing over the possibility of losing her, and trying to find ways to get her to stay. I need to try and accept the fact that she walked out the door, and I DID lose her. That the worst thing I thought could happen, did happen. It's hard to think it, but I guess I need to comes to terms with that & accept it. 

I'm going to keep trying to focus on myself & the present. Weekends are harder than the work week though. At a friends suggestion I started up a to-do list for getting things done around the house. Still have a lot to do, so hopefully that helps keep me occupied.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> Thanks, this is giving me some perspective. I spent weeks agonizing over the possibility of losing her, and trying to find ways to get her to stay. I need to try and accept the fact that she walked out the door, and I DID lose her. That the worst thing I thought could happen, did happen. It's hard to think it, but I guess I need to comes to terms with that & accept it.
> 
> I'm going to keep trying to focus on myself & the present. Weekends are harder than the work week though. At a friends suggestion I started up a to-do list for getting things done around the house. Still have a lot to do, so hopefully that helps keep me occupied.


You do need to accept it, it will make things easier.

It's so difficult when the one thing you fear above all else happens, you spend a good amount of time in denial. I know I did.

I also find the weekends to be the hardest times. Mainly because I don't have the distraction of work/colleagues and I'm at home, alone, in what used to be our house. I need to redecorate or something I think.

Keep on keeping on, you're doing great and it will only get better .


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Thanks, this is giving me some perspective. I spent weeks agonizing over the possibility of losing her, and trying to find ways to get her to stay. I need to try and accept the fact that she walked out the door, and I DID lose her. That the worst thing I thought could happen, did happen. It's hard to think it, but I guess I need to comes to terms with that & accept it.
> 
> I'm going to keep trying to focus on myself & the present. Weekends are harder than the work week though. At a friends suggestion I started up a to-do list for getting things done around the house. Still have a lot to do, so hopefully that helps keep me occupied.


Having 1) a list of things to do, and 2) social things planned in advance, will both help immensely. Things that make you happy and get your mind off of her are key. 

Weekends were always harder for me, too. I just made sure I had lots of stuff to do. And what was really helpful? I came up with a list of things I'd always wanted to do or see, but never got to do because my STBXH didn't want to, things that he promised to do with me but never followed through, or things that I didn't do/go because I knew he would object or b!tch about it the entire time (so I just didn't bother). And I started making plans to do those things, and I did them (usually with friends in tow)! So I started making all these great new memories and experiences with people who really DO love me. When you start making new, happy memories, it helps you to see there is life after your relationship ends. It takes a while to find your groove. I'm still finding mine, but I'm having a great time doing it.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

WantWifeBack said:


> You do need to accept it, it will make things easier.
> 
> It's so difficult when the one thing you fear above all else happens, you spend a good amount of time in denial. I know I did.
> 
> ...


Redecorating/moving furniture/getting my STBXH's sh!t out/removing visual reminders helped A LOT. Still working on this one - it's a work in progress - but it helps.

I still don't know what to do with my wedding dress, though. I want to burn it. My friend is insisting that I should donate it or something, but I seriously want to trash it.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

There's still some visual reminders around, things she left. Most of them don't seem to bother me much though. About the only things that still bother me are the couple items in the garage that she didn't move, and the 2 wardrobes in the spare bedroom. Although really that whole room bothers me. We had small closets, so that room was mostly hers. Other than the wardrobes & a lamp it's empty. Been pretty much ignoring the room since she left.

The other things that would/did bother me are gone. Or maybe I'm just burned out from watching those things get packed up over the weeks.

I am going to need to do some decoration though. Have way to many empty picture hooks on the wall that keep reminding me of what was there. Not sure yet if I should just pull them out, or try & redecorate. Not really sure if I'm ready to do that yet though.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I would recommend moving those few things into the room with the bureau, and avoiding the room altogether for now. Even if you say things things don't bother you, they're still a constant reminder.

I can't paint my place (it's a rental), but I've hear from people that painting can make a big difference in reclaiming the space as your own.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> I would recommend moving those few things into the room with the bureau, and avoiding the room altogether for now. Even if you say things things don't bother you, they're still a constant reminder.
> 
> I can't paint my place (it's a rental), but I've hear from people that painting can make a big difference in reclaiming the space as your own.


Took your advice & started moving things that remind me of her into that room. Spent most of today cleaning the house, and as I ran across things that made me think of her, off they went.

I did make a mistake & opened an old photo album I came across. Looking through it shook me up, went from sad to angry pretty quick. After I came to my senses it got shoved back into the bottom of the drawer.

Going to head out with friends for a bit. Hopefully it cheers me up & keeps my mind from wandering in the wrong direction.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Good for you! I hope it helps, and I hope you have fun with your friends! Keep us filled in on how you're doing


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, last night was a bit of a bust. Caught up with my friend and his girlfriend. To say I'm not a fan of hers would be an understatement. But still, I wanted to get out and have a good time. Anyway, not to long into it she created some childish drama and demanded he take her home. Said he could go back out afterwards, but she wanted to go home. I just told him if he wanted to catch back up cool, and if not that was fine too. Really didn't bother me either way.

Been doing some writing this morning and thinking about things, and I think I've noticed a couple changes in myself. For one, I used to feel the need to talk some sense into my friend when this sort of thing happens. I think I just felt a need to fix things. This time I realized that it's just something he needs to work out on his own. I was able to let it go, and not let it bother me for once.

Another thing is when my friend tried suggested an activity that might be a good date idea for us. I told him point blank that I first need someone to go on a date with. I've been saying things like she left me, moved out, that I'm hoping we can work things out. I'm trying to accept that she left me, and I think that's the first time I've been able to just admit that.

The other thing is that I'm realizing I really can be angry with her. Maybe that just goes along with trying to accept she's gone. I've been angry with her actions, choices she's been making, but not her directly. And it's occurred to me that I really am angry with her. A lot. We were finally both able to open with each other, communicate clearly what was wrong & what was needed. I felt like I was finally able to put forth my best, and that we had an opportunity to turn things around for the better. And she left anyway.

I know that I need to be focusing on myself. But I feel like I need to talk with her again in a few weeks or so to see if her view has changed, to see if she'll want to give us another try. See if we really can work together. She left, and I should probably feel some closure from that. But I can't help but feel like things are unresolved. like I want to know what kind of person she really is now. If she does want to work things out, I'd obviously be happy, but I know I'd need to be careful not to undo the progress I'm trying to make for myself. If she doesn't want to work things out, and she just wants to walk away without putting forth the effort to see what we can be, then she's not going to be someone I want in my life. Maybe it's because we agreed when she left that we should talk in a few weeks and see where we're at. Maybe I'm just desperate & trying to hang on.

And what's strange is that I'm both angry & glad she left. Part of me thinks she made a bad decision for both of us when she left, that we could have worked things out. The other part of me is glad she left, that I have the time & space to myself to think & decide what I want out of life.

Part of me wants to set timelines, that if she doesn't call me by day x that I'll need to initiate a conversation. But from what I'm reading, I think it's just me trying to get a false sense of control over a situation I have no control over. I know I need to try & let go, just let life happen & do what I need to do when I'm ready. I'm still trying to figure out how though.

Anyway, I needed to get this out. Going to try & spend the rest of the day trying to focus on me. Do some more cleaning, go buy some weights, & cook a good dinner. Try and get some peace from this no-contact, and keep busy to keep my mind off all of this.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

hit, 

Watch her actions. They are telling you what she is doing - not her words. If she is walking away, let her. She is an adult and you have to assume she is doing what she wants. 

The most important thing is you continue to meet your own needs and move forward for yourself. You can not control what she does, but you don't have to be in limbo waiting her her to come around. Please take it from me about limbo…..it sucks and it keeps you stuck. 

If she comes to you, then see what she wants. Maybe you'll entertain some kind of relationship. Maybe you have determined that she isn't the one for you. Step out of her frame and work within your own. You set the timelines for you, and you only. 

Whatever you do: DO NOT APPEAR DESPERATE!!!


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I do want out of this limbo, but I'm having a hard time seeing a way out yet. The last time we spoke in person I felt that she seemed to have doubts, and she seemed open to the chance of trying to start over at some point. I was trying to leave the door open when I told her we should talk again in a few weeks, I didn't want to let go of that chance. And she seemed to want to leave the door open as well. Now I'm starting to wonder if that was a bad idea, because of what I'm letting that do to me.

At this point I'm bouncing between being hurt & being really angry. Woke up at 4am & couldn't get back to sleep, first time I've had trouble sleeping since she left. Was just feeling sad & hurt by all of this. Caught up with family after work, and was able to level out for a while. Got home & I'm back to being incredibly angry. Trying to understand how the woman I loved could walk out while I was doing everything I could, and we had finally opened the doors to real communication about our issues. I know there's no understanding it, but it eats at me anyway. I want to confront her about it, to hurry up and get that last chance out of the way & hope I can get some peace from it. To just find out who she really wants to be. But I know I'm in no state to do so, or make a decision like that. And it's barely been over a week, which isn't enough for this to really sink in yet. Maybe I just want to know if she's going through what I'm going through.

My head knows I need to let go, and I'm trying, but my heart won't listen. Patience has never been my strong point. Maybe that's something I need to learn from this.

She texted me today about her friends mom having recovered from some medical issues. It seemed like I should text her back, so I did. I think I should have ignored it, stayed no contact. I think every time I do hear from her it just screws up my head. There's only 1 thing worth really discussing, and if she's not interested in discussing that, I shouldn't be doing this to myself. I wanted to be able to text her happy birthday this weekend, and now I'm worried about contact with her tearing me up again.

I want to let go. I used to be someone that could do that, live in the moment, and take things as they happen. I want to be that guy again. I just don't know how to get there again.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> I do want out of this limbo, but I'm having a hard time seeing a way out yet. The last time we spoke in person I felt that she seemed to have doubts, and she seemed open to the chance of trying to start over at some point. I was trying to leave the door open when I told her we should talk again in a few weeks, I didn't want to let go of that chance. And she seemed to want to leave the door open as well. Now I'm starting to wonder if that was a bad idea, because of what I'm letting that do to me.
> 
> At this point I'm bouncing between being hurt & being really angry. Woke up at 4am & couldn't get back to sleep, first time I've had trouble sleeping since she left. Was just feeling sad & hurt by all of this. Caught up with family after work, and was able to level out for a while. Got home & I'm back to being incredibly angry. Trying to understand how the woman I loved could walk out while I was doing everything I could, and we had finally opened the doors to real communication about our issues. I know there's no understanding it, but it eats at me anyway. I want to confront her about it, to hurry up and get that last chance out of the way & hope I can get some peace from it. To just find out who she really wants to be. But I know I'm in no state to do so, or make a decision like that. And it's barely been over a week, which isn't enough for this to really sink in yet. Maybe I just want to know if she's going through what I'm going through.
> 
> ...


HBAB, given that it's only been a little over a week, I think it's still way too soon to be making any rash decisions, however you do need your time and space in NC to get yourself together. In hindsight I wish I had gone NC with my WAW as soon as she left, but it's too late now.

Nothing in life is certain, nobody's future is certain. Whether you remain in contact with her or not, that chance will ALWAYS be there. The likelihood of it happening however, is a different story altogether and one I can't speculate on.

But, think of it this way. You know that you can only control you, right? The only person you can change is you. Given that you know this, how is contact with the STBXW going to help your situation? I'll give you the answer: it's not.

IF she's going to change her mind, she needs to do it on her own. Take the time to learn, work on yourself and become a better man. Then if she comes back you'll have a better shot at keeping her, and if she doesn't, you'll be a better man anyway! 

Believe me I know how difficult it is, but you really need to focus on you. She is beyond your scope of control.

I'm not surprised that you don't know how to get there again, none of us did to begin with. You spend so long with someone, you forget how to be yourself on your own. Again, this is just a time thing, but the first step on the path is to focus on you, and go no contact.

I won't lie, it will suck, it will hurt, you'll miss her more than you thought it was ever possible to miss anyone, but it gets easier and in time you will be happier again.

Keep plugging away mate, you're doing well. During your struggles, post here, it really does help to get it out, especially if you know people will read it and offer support and advice!


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

You're right, the only thing I can control in this is me. Just hard to get myself to accept that. 

Something I just read in codependant no more struck a nerve. Taking about ways to fulfill what you need in a healthy way. Mentions not trying to control the object of you're attention. I've never been the controlling type, really been on the opposite of that, but it's like Im grasping for a way to control an uncontrollable situation. 

I need to stop. It's eating me up, and I don't want to try & force things. What I really want is for her to genuinely want to come back.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I've been trying to keep my train of thought along these lines this afternoon. About how forcing things isn't what I want. Even if I could make her come back, that's not what I want. What I want is her to come back genuinely wanting to reconcile. If it's not genuine, I don't want her back. Maybe this is convoluted, but's it's the best way I can explain it.

And I've started to think about the couple times we got close to this over the last few years, our reactions to them, and about what I've been learning about codependent actions. The other times we've had serious problems, I was simply scared of losing her, and wanted her to tell me what to do to make the problems go away. We had poor communication, and nothing was really solved. And it led to this.

This time I really think I'm different. I'd be lieing if said I wasn't scared of losing her. But right now I'm not sitting here wanting her to tell me what would make it better. I'm supposed to be focusing on me & what I want. This time I want to tell her what I want in my life & out of a relationship with her. What I need. I still think there's an opportunity here if she wants to take it, that we should find out if we really can meet each other needs.

I know, she already left me. I tried explaining this to her, and she still left. For a while before I came here, I was in a really desperate stage, and I think that just pushed her further away and may be why she dug in her heels & refused to try. Even when she left & we had a real conversation about where we were, I was ready to put in the work, but I don't think I was really wanting to do it for me.

I know I'm not supposed to be thinking of R, and focus on myself. What I'm trying to say is that I'm starting to understand that. I do think R would be good for me, and for both of us. I think that if we both put in the work we could meet each others needs & wants.

What I really want is to get what I want & need in a healthy relationship, and that's something I should never settle on again. I'm feeling more that I want her to want to R, than just that I want to R. And there's no way I can control that. I've left the door open, and she can choose this opportunity or she can pass it up. There's no point in me trying to worry about what will happen, so I'm going to try & stop obsessing over it.

I am feeling really good right now. Got some exercise, about to go meet friends, so this is probably a temporary feeling. But I'm going to try & hang on to the thought that what I want is my needs to be met in a healthy way. And that whether we R or not, my needs need to be a priority to me for once.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> I've been trying to keep my train of thought along these lines this afternoon. About how forcing things isn't what I want. Even if I could make her come back, that's not what I want. What I want is her to come back genuinely wanting to reconcile. If it's not genuine, I don't want her back. Maybe this is convoluted, but's it's the best way I can explain it.
> 
> And I've started to think about the couple times we got close to this over the last few years, our reactions to them, and about what I've been learning about codependent actions. The other times we've had serious problems, I was simply scared of losing her, and wanted her to tell me what to do to make the problems go away. We had poor communication, and nothing was really solved. And it led to this.
> 
> ...


This post is an absolute gold mine of progress fella. Well done! It sounds like you're really starting to climb to 50k and see things from there. I'm proud of you! :smthumbup: :toast:

If R is something you want and desire, the best way (in my opinion, which may not be correct) is to not dwell on it, focus on you, do the 180 still, but keep an open mind. If she contacts you, take everything she says at face value, don't look for hidden meaning, hints, or clues, because they will just set you back.

You're right that she does need to want to R for herself. If you try to force the R and she buckles under that force, you wouldn't have a wife, you'd have a prisoner. You don't want that. The resentment would build and you'd have to go through all of this again because she'd walk out on you again.

Your needs do need to be met, I set my needs aside for my wife's needs, I figured if I doted on her and gave her everything she wanted, the thing I feared most would never come to fruition, but it was quite the opposite. 

:allhail: 

^ This was me. :slap:

I became so miserable and depressed because my needs weren't being met, she didn't like me socialising because of her low-self esteem. So in effect, I was isolated from the world, except for what she permitted, and my needs weren't being met. It's a recipe for depression, and I'm really not surprised that I suffer from it.

You're heading for 50k mate, and you're climbing steeply  keep it up! Just always know that whatever happens between you, and your wife, you'll be just fine, you'll be happy.

You seem to be a really decent guy, and quite frankly, she loco. :crazy:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

WantWifeBack said:


> This post is an absolute gold mine of progress fella. Well done! It sounds like you're really starting to climb to 50k and see things from there. I'm proud of you! :smthumbup: :toast:
> 
> If R is something you want and desire, the best way (in my opinion, which may not be correct) is to not dwell on it, focus on you, do the 180 still, but keep an open mind. If she contacts you, take everything she says at face value, don't look for hidden meaning, hints, or clues, because they will just set you back.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to say that :iagree: with everything WantWifeBack said. I don't have anything useful to add, so I'm going to leave it at that


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks, I really wasn't sure if my thoughts were on the right track.

I did have a really good day yesterday. Feel like I slipped backwards a bit today. I'm off work the next 5 days, and am a bit apprehensive about how I'll do with that much time to myself.

Tomorrow should be good though. I did something I wouldn't have done before, signed up for a meetup to go hiking tomorrow morning with a really large group. I think the outdoors & exercise will do me some good. Seeing family shortly after that for the holiday, so I've got a busy day.

Just not sure what to do with the rest of my time off yet. I don't want to stay idle, but at the same time I need to start getting more comfortable with being alone.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> Thanks, I really wasn't sure if my thoughts were on the right track.
> 
> I did have a really good day yesterday. Feel like I slipped backwards a bit today. I'm off work the next 5 days, and am a bit apprehensive about how I'll do with that much time to myself.
> 
> ...


The best thing you can do with your time off is keep busy, something that occupies your mind, even if it's just reading a book. Just keep your mind busy, that's the best way to manage being alone.

Hope you enjoy the hiking, it will be a good chance to socialise!


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Yesterday turned out to be a good day overall. The hike was fun, & area was quite scenic. 60 people came out, and I did manage to socialize with a few. I've never been the outgoing social type, but I've gotten a lot worse the last few years, probably due to insecurity issues. Just enjoying a hike surrounded by 60 strangers is a good step for me. So that & talking with a few new people, I'm happy with as a step in the right direction.

Thanksgiving with the family (small group, 3 of us) started out pretty hard, feeling like she should be there with me. I wasn't sure if it would be a good idea, but I did send her a text to say happy Thanksgiving. Couple texts back & forth about what we were doing for the holiday, & she said to send her love to my family. Was a bit surprised by that. Also made me wish she was sending some love my way  , even though I know better than to expect that.

Thanksgiving did end up with a rough start, but thankfully my family was there to help me through it, and I ended up having a good time.

I've had little contact with her in the 2 weeks since she left. 3 brief text conversations, 2 of which she initiated (3rd was me saying happy Thanksgiving), no phone calls, and I haven't seen her. I really have no idea what she's been up to. I did find out a couple interesting things from the family. When my STBXW (not really sure what to call her at this point) refused to treat this as a separation and just wanted to leave, she did say she would leave her Facebook status as "in a relationship" because she wanted to be alone & didn't want to attract any attention from her male friends. I didn't really expect it, but apparently she left that up even though she removed her "from" location that was set to our town. My family seems to think she's not really ready to move on. Things like this, leaving a few things in the house & garage, the fact I had to tell her she couldn't keep the house key. I'd like to think these are signs she wants an excuse to come back, but I think I've learned enough here to not try & read too far into these things & give myself false hope.

Also found out my STBXW's mother & step-father were floored when they found out she was leaving me. Apparently they were a lot more fond of me than I realized. It sounds like the conversation between her & her mom didn't go too well, & left her mom asking mine what's wrong with her daughter. Glad I'm not the only one asking this.

Also found out she's spending her birthday going out of town to her sister's this weekend. I'm honestly happy for her that she's doing that. They're very close, and maybe the trip will help give her some perspective on her life & her choices. Sure, a small part of me wants to think maybe her sister will talk some sense into her. But really I know I've had the support of TAM, close friends, and family to help me through this. I don't know how much she's been able to lean on her friends, but she's closer with her sister than anyone. Whatever the outcome, I'm happy for her that she'll be getting some support.

There's another thing that I'm a bit hesitant to bring up, as I don't think it's the issue. STBXW's mother is bi-polar. My family had some concerns about her recent actions being a sign of that. I don't think that's what happening here though, and that they're just looking for an easy explanation for what's happened between us. If nothing else, I don't think she'd have stayed committed to leaving over an entire month if this was just a manic episode.

I really didn't mean to write a wall of text about her. It was just the first I've heard about what's going on in her life, and me trying to process it. I've actually had an ok day today by myself. Nothing great (some ups & downs), but got some things done around the house, and started working on a regular exercise routine so I can stay consistent. Going to stop thinking about her now, not try and over-analyze the above, and go back to trying to focus on myself.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Just some advice: 180 is not about no contact unless there is an affair involved. 180 is about making a turn in your own life: if you were isolated, making friends; if you were a workaholic, making time for other things; if you were angry, becoming happier; if you were lazy, working out; etc. 

It is also about learning how to love yourself. Do no beg and plead with her or nag her about coming back and reconciling. It makes you look weak. Don't be a cold person or refuse to talk if she would like to, but do not bring up relationship issues with her unless she initiates it. Don't hug her or kiss her or touch her unless she initiates it. When you initiate these things you will drive her further away. But more importantly you will be giving a temporary soothing to your own emotions, except later you will be very disappointed in the results and feel even worse.

You have to work on yourself for yourself, not for reconciliation.

Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie if you haven't heard of it yet. 

Is there another man involved? Her behavior seems to fit affair behavior.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I think I need some advice.

I don't know if I can trust my gut instincts yet, but what they're telling me is this. I know she originally thought I was happy with the way things were between us. I think she built up the nerve to move out for a long time, & was surprised that I opened up about not being happy. I think that's why she started opening up more before she left, including discussing what R would require. I also think she had built herself up to moving out, felt she had to follow through regardless, and was scared we'd end up back where we were if she didn't.

When she left, we agreed we should talk again in a few weeks and see where we stand. I think we should follow through on that decision. I want to wait the rest of the week, and if she doesn't reach out, then ask her directly if she still wants to have that talk. A lot has changed for me, I've made good progress on myself, and I have a better understanding of what I want. I'd expect she's done some self-examination as well. We've had very little contact the last few weeks, and neither of us can know where the other is until we do.

I don't want to force anything. Just be able to tell here where I am, and for once *tell her* what I want out of a relationship with her. And let her do what she wants with that knowledge.

If she wants to R, great. I wouldn't expect anything drastic or immediate. Let things happen at a pace we can both be comfortable with. Although if she wants to move back home immediately, I don't think I'd be willing unless she agreed to MC. Too great a chance to fall into old habits.

And I have to accept it's likely things won't go that way. She may refuse to talk. She way may be willing to talk, but say no to R or want more time. At least then I won't have this discussion we agreed to hanging over my head.

Either way, I think this is something I need to get some peace. It feels like we have unfinished business the way we left it, and I'm finding it hard to move on from that because it's giving me a measure of hope for R.

I know that even if she says no to R, in reality the door will still be open until I can eventually get over her. But if we do talk and she says no, I can at least keep moving forward.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Arendt said:


> Just some advice: 180 is not about no contact unless there is an affair involved. 180 is about making a turn in your own life: if you were isolated, making friends; if you were a workaholic, making time for other things; if you were angry, becoming happier; if you were lazy, working out; etc.
> 
> It is also about learning how to love yourself. Do no beg and plead with her or nag her about coming back and reconciling. It makes you look weak. Don't be a cold person or refuse to talk if she would like to, but do not bring up relationship issues with her unless she initiates it. Don't hug her or kiss her or touch her unless she initiates it. When you initiate these things you will drive her further away. But more importantly you will be giving a temporary soothing to your own emotions, except later you will be very disappointed in the results and feel even worse.
> 
> ...


I may have misunderstood the 180, thought it was supposed to be NC either way. Either way, I think I am making progress on turning my life around. For the 1st time in a long time I have an honest desire to find what I want out of life & be happy. And I am doing this for me now, because R or not, I want to be happy. 

I have read Codependent No More, finished it last week. It helped me make sense out of a lot of my behavior, and start working on myself. I'm currently making my way through one of her sequels.

As for whether there is another man, god I hope not. For what it's worth, I had asked her, she told me no, & I did believe her. That said, I do see similarities to the stories of others here, and I know asking her isn't a good source of information. And I do have a lingering concern now. Looking at our cell phone bill recently, I did see a large # of texts between her & a male friend. This guy is married, and has a bunch of kids. I know he had issues with his wife & they went to MC to work things out. I really don't think she's the cheating type, she's seen that in her family & and looks down on it. And if she did, I don't think she would get physically involved with a married man with children. Still, I'd be a fool if I didn't have concerns about whether she's just leaning on a friend who's been through tough times, or if there's more to it. I don't really have any evidence of a EA or PA though, and it's hard to base anything on a number of texts because she's always done a large amount of texting. Still, it makes me uncomfortable, so I do intend to ask her about this.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> I don't want to force anything. Just be able to tell here where I am, and for once *tell her* what I want out of a relationship with her. And let her do what she wants with that knowledge.


HBAB, I know you're in a difficult position, we've all been there. But I foresee you making the same mistake I did here.

Don't tell her *anything*. Words mean nothing at this point. You could tell her and mean it, 100%. What she'll hear is different. She'll see you as trying to manipulate and negotiate something in your favour. The best thing to do is _nothing_. Whatever you say right now can't change anything, if she wants to R, or meet for that talk, she'll let you know.



> As for whether there is another man, god I hope not. For what it's worth, I had asked her, she told me no, & I did believe her. That said, I do see similarities to the stories of others here, and I know asking her isn't a good source of information. And I do have a lingering concern now. Looking at our cell phone bill recently, I did see a large # of texts between her & a male friend. This guy is married, and has a bunch of kids. I know he had issues with his wife & they went to MC to work things out. I really don't think she's the cheating type, she's seen that in her family & and looks down on it. And if she did, I don't think she would get physically involved with a married man with children. Still, I'd be a fool if I didn't have concerns about whether she's just leaning on a friend who's been through tough times, or if there's more to it. I don't really have any evidence of a EA or PA though, and it's hard to base anything on a number of texts because she's always done a large amount of texting. Still, it makes me uncomfortable, so I do intend to ask her about this.


I'd say your concern here is justified. Were the dates of the texts before or after she left? If so how long did they go on for?


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

HBAB, you will be "gas lighted" when asked about the texts. You will be the crazy insane jealous stalker for checking up on her phone records. Believe me - it's part of the cheater script. If it makes you uncomfortable, it's for a reason. Your gut senses a problem. Believe it. She is a big girl. She should get her own phone plan for texting. 

I agree with WWB. No more talks. I'm sending you some stuff via private message. 

Stop operating in her frame and start operating in your own. You are trying to figure her out still (and I understand this) and she is not. 

HL


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

helolover said:


> HBAB, you will be "gas lighted" when asked about the texts. You will be the crazy insane jealous stalker for checking up on her phone records. Believe me - it's part of the cheater script. If it makes you uncomfortable, it's for a reason. Your gut senses a problem. Believe it. She is a big girl. She should get her own phone plan for texting.
> 
> I agree with WWB. No more talks. I'm sending you some stuff via private message.
> 
> ...


Yep, HL is spot on here. :iagree:

As for figuring her out, madness that way lies. There's no point wasting time and energy trying to rationalise the irrational.

Focus on you, she's removed herself from your list of priorities.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

The texts go back a while, but the frequency seemed to kick up the last 2-3 months.

We're still on the same family plan. I brought up getting her off it before she left. She really didn't seem eager to do that, and said she was fine paying it until the contract was up. She did say she would look into it, but didn't follow through. It's one more example of her not wanting to cut all the strings.

I know if I ask her about it I could be viewed as the crazy jealous type whether there is something there or not. It's not a lot to go on, just enough to raise concern, even though this is not something I would expect from her. But how could anyone not feel the need to confront that?

As for talking to her, I'm torn now. Part of me feels I should follow through like we agreed on. The other part of me wants to listen to everyone here, and let her make the effort if she wants to. And if I ask her about the texts it may blow up in my face.

I'm frustrated that I felt I was making good progress until I looked at that cell phone bill. Now I feel like I'm going backwards & letting myself get hurt again. And all over something I can't even prove. I don't know what to do right now, so that means I can't do anything yet.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> The texts go back a while, but the frequency seemed to kick up the last 2-3 months.
> 
> We're still on the same family plan. I brought up getting her off it before she left. She really didn't seem eager to do that, and said she was fine paying it until the contract was up. She did say she would look into it, but didn't follow through. It's one more example of her not wanting to cut all the strings.
> 
> ...


Not only do you not have enough evidence to prove it, it's also something beyond your control.

What would change if she had an affair? 100 affairs? or no affair? Nothing. The end result is the same, she still wants out and you've been left. Not only left but betrayed, she betrayed your trust, regardless of whether she cheated on you with 1 man, 100 men, or nobody.

Take a step back, get some quiet time. Focus on you. Right now you're still focusing on her.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Haven't been here for a while. Usually posting here helps a lot. But I needed to step away from my situation for a bit. 

I've had a busy week, been out doing things every night since Tues. I've been having more good times than bad, and I'm starting to get used to the fact that I'm alone here in the house, and that that's ok. I've had some rough points, like finding an old shirt of hers under the bed, or waking up in the morning thinking about her, but I was able to get over it and keep moving on. And the good points have been great. Hanging out with friends, going to a party last night. Accepting that I can still have fun going out by myself.

Reached out to an old friend & caught up for dinner during the week. He divorced several years back, and found a lot of similarities to my situation. Too much time apart, wife putting work ahead of the relationship, and the refusal to go to counseling. He had to go out on a lot of dates, but he's found a really nice girl that he's been with for a while now. Even got his old house back. Seeing him happy and living a good life was good. And it makes me feel better about whatever my future brings.

In short, I've had a good week. I did keep wrestling with whether or not to reach out to her though. I was advised against it here, but told by a few friends that I should. I was obsessing about it for a while, knew it was unhealthy, but couldn't shake it. I ended up deciding that doing so would be the best thing for me. I'm sure she knew that she could reach out whenever she wanted to. But it's something we agreed to and I wanted to follow through with. At least for myself, to get the pressure off of me in case she expected me to make the 1st move, to know I followed through with what I wanted and agreed to, and to know I tried.

Thurs I sent her a text that we had discussed talking in a few weeks, & that I'd like to if she was interested. Took a while to get a response. She asked I give her a little bit, that she was burned out from work & travelling, and needs some time to decompress. She did tell me what days she was off yet, but that she didn't want to commit to anything yet. Had a short bit of small talk, and that was it.

I spent some time trying to read into it more, but I've realized it's pointless. What I do think is this. Her being burned out after pulling OT & travelling is typical for her, and is enough to make her not want to commit to even something simple until she's had some time to herself. She knows exactly what I want to talk about, and knows it's going to be a serious conversation. She was careful to not say no or make a rash decision. She didn't say yes either, but made it a point to tell me her days off. I think she's on the fence about it, but who knows. I need to watch her actions now, not her words.

All I know is this. This may turn out to be a bad move, or a good one. Either way I feel good about my actions. I followed through with something I agreed to, and I feel like that weight has been lifted off of me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Hit,

Conrad's golden rule:

People do that which they wish to do.

People do not do that which they do not wish to do.

This includes making time for things that are important to them.

Of course, users and manipulative people are filled with B.S. excuses about why they "can't" do this or that.

I remind those sorts of people to be specific.

It's not that you "can't" do this or that, it's that you WON'T.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Something else I wanted to get out, but I felt it's probably better in a separate post.

I've been reading about how you're supposed to love yourself before you can love someone else. Even STBXW told me that I need to learn to love myself. And I have to say, I found the concept strange.

I think I'm understanding it now. I've realized I've had some self esteem issues, and started letting myself go a few years ago. Lost myself, stopped setting goals, and stopped paying attention to what I want. But now I'm accepting that I want to be happy over anything else. I'd rather be single than go back to where I was was. I still want her back, not to go back to the way things were, but to see what it could be if we both gave it our best.

I think getting into exercising was the best thing I could have done. Something that makes me feel good about myself, and realizing how much I like that feeling. And I'm trying to keep moving forward with that.

I've decided that if I'm going to "love myself", I need to do more things that are good for me. And I decided to do 2 major things.

1st, I'm quitting smoking. I've been smoking around a pack a day for around 18 years. I've thought about quitting, but never did much about it, and never been willing to admit it because I thought I'd fail. It's been 4-5 days now. I haven't gone cold turkey, been using an e-cigarette to help me through it. And I've slipped a few times. When I've slipped, it hasn't been more than 3 in a day, which is still better than 20. For the 1st time I actually believe I can quit smoking, and I will follow through.

2nd one is a bit odd. Never learned to swim. Just phobic around water. Didn't really help that a lot of STBXW's hobbies the last few years have been water-based activities, and I excluded myself because of that. Anyway, I've decided that since it's something I've been afraid to do my whole life, I want to go out & do it. Signed up for some private lessons & start next week. I'm not doing this for her, and don't even want to tell her because she'll think I am. I'm doing this for me, and think it'll be a good experience.

Other than that, I'm off the next week, and am nervous again about the time off. I'm making plans to have fun & keep busy. I know her days off will be rough because I'm hoping she wants to meet, but I'll plan something fun to do anyway because I can't wait around to see what she does.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

I noticed you talked about a possibility of her cheating. I can at least tell you that she sounds like she did the honorable thing. She left you first before she had an affair. Its all over now, but it could have been worse. If your still doing the 180, don't dwell on it, its just mental masterbation at this point. 

Keep working on the codependency thing. I was a bit awe struck that you found it so difficult to be away from her more when she was on a different shift and seeing her less. I knew there was probably something else going on when I read it. I'm glad you found out what it was. Lots of couples lose time together due to lots of different reasons. It's usually not that big of a deal as long as they stay connected by making the most of the time together. 

Go get another women to date. Be single and forget her. Your codepency on her is killing you. It's not attractive to women either.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

I found out about codependency almost 20 years ago when i was going to grief councilling when my mother died. I was dating a women that was tearing me up at the time and found out my unhealthy behaviors. I probably need a refresher course myself but I know I learned a lot and I like to to think I've installed some better thought processes. I'm no expert and I'm sorry your here. There are a ton of beautiful healthy sexy women out there. Keep looking.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Folks, I didn't want to let myself believe that everyone here was right, & I was wrong. I didn't want to go NC, because I couldn't let go of the idea that we made good progress the day she left & that there might still be a chance.

I texted her about meeting up the other day, but she had plans. Texted her again today to go get coffee & she took me up on it. I was excited to see her for the 1st time in over 3 weeks, and really thought she'd agreed to meet because she thought there was still a chance to work things out. 

Started out with a hug & a kiss hello. Most of the conversation was pretty casual about what we've been doing lately. Eventually I rolled it out there that I was making positive changes in my life, that I wanted her to be a part of that, and that I saw a real opportunity for us to make something out of this. She obviously seemed to not want to have this conversation. Her response was either "I'm not there" or "I'm not there yet", I was too stunned by it to remember if the yet was in there or not. We talked a bit while we were walking outside, she gave me a hug & said we'd talk again later. I told her that I was done chasing her, and that if she wanted to talk again she can reach out to me. Went to my car & left.

Maybe I should have expected this. I went in with my hopes up, and got them crushed. The last time we had seen each other, I felt we had finally made some progress on our issues. Seeing her today, she just seemed cold. I've asked myself how someone I've been with for 15 years could seem so cold & uninterested in the chance to work things out. But it felt like the woman I've been in love with wasn't there today. The woman I'm in love with would want to work this out, I don't know who she is right now.

It's been a few hours now, and I'm still in a strange combination of hurt, angry, & sad, with angry taking the lead. I don't know if there's more to why she left or not. I don't know if she'll try & contact me in a few weeks, or never. I don't know if she'll eventually want to come home or not. 

What I do know is right now I'm angry enough that I don't want anything from her. I'm done reaching out, it's gotten us nowhere and just gets me hurt every time.

Maybe trying to initiate contact was the wrong thing to do, but I think it's what I needed to do to move on from where I've been stuck. Seeing her tonight has changed my outlook on all of this. That cold woman I saw today had no interest in us, and is not the woman I want back. I don't know whether I'm just seeing this now, if she forced herself to be cold, or something else has changed.

Honestly, as upset as I am, I would still love it if something changed, and she wanted to work things out. I still love her, and can't change that. But I don't expect that to happen anymore. I let myself have hope, and that got pretty well crushed tonight.

I'm done trying to figure her out, trying to find ways to get her back, or trying to figure out how we could work this out. It's clear to me now there's nothing there for me unless she wants to make a change. Right now I just want to pick up the pieces of my life, and find some happiness in my life, and move on.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> Folks, I didn't want to let myself believe that everyone here was right, & I was wrong. I didn't want to go NC, because I couldn't let go of the idea that we made good progress the day she left & that there might still be a chance.
> 
> I texted her about meeting up the other day, but she had plans. Texted her again today to go get coffee & she took me up on it. I was excited to see her for the 1st time in over 3 weeks, and really thought she'd agreed to meet because she thought there was still a chance to work things out.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, HbaB. That is why everyone recommended what they did from the beginning. You reaching out to her and meeting her like a hopeful puppy was the worst thing you could have done. _Telling_ her about the positive changes in your life was the next thing worst thing. You handed your heart - again - to a person who you _know_ has no compunction whatsoever about tearing it apart and handing it back to you. It is awful to do that to yourself.

The good news is... most of us here have done the same damn thing at one time or another. We know exactly how you feel... and we are sorry. That is why you were given the advice you were given. Put her behind you and focus on you. Don't even allow thoughts of R to enter your mind. Act as though it is never going to happen. Because, odds are, it won't. I'm sorry, but that is the truth. Even if it ever _does_, it will be because you are no longer the codependent man she has known. You can only become that man if you no longer let thoughts of her influence any of your actions. 

Focus on you. Period.

Eventually you will wonder how you ever did anything different.

Get back up, brother. Dust yourself off. Chalk this up as a lesson learned the hard way. Get back to you.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> I'm done trying to figure her out, trying to find ways to get her back, or trying to figure out how we could work this out. It's clear to me now there's nothing there for me unless she wants to make a change. Right now I just want to pick up the pieces of my life, and find some happiness in my life, and move on.


HBAB, this is good. You saw for yourself - that's how we really learn sometime. 

So, this is where you stop worrying about this person and start the complete focus on you. It seems like during your talk with your WAS, you were doing the "pick me" dance still. Stop. Any changes you are making are for your betterment - not to lure WAS back. 

This is an obvious power struggle - your wife declined your initial meetings because she had plans (power move). You wanted to turn the meeting into a talk about how you've changed and that you wanted to work things out. She opted out as the conversation left her frame. You're chasing her. It's giving her a lot of unneccesary power over you. She sees that she is your only option. That's a sad place to be. You don't want her to pity you. Pity is obligation and contempt. As such, you're getting the Let's just be friends (LJBF) rejection. I've been there, bro. It wasn't okay with me and it shouldn't be okay with you. 

I recommend NC again unless there is some business reason. 

What's your next move? It appears you're being strung along while she "finds herself" or is secretly dating around. She has you squarely where she wants - beta orbiter, backup plan B.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I guess my next move is no contact. It's like I don't know who she is anymore. Parts of her behavior I recognize, and parts I don't. I just don't see any point in reaching out again. If she tries to reach out, I'm not sure. I have no interest in LJBF. I'll probably need to be clear that unless she actually has a real interest in working things out, I don't want to hear from her.

Past that, I'm not sure. There have been a couple things I've been holding off of doing because I thought we'd work things out. Mostly stuff around the house, like decorating & replacing the couch. No reason not to do that now. And at some point I need to figure out what to do with the things she left here. Right now I don't want her things here. She chose to not make this her home anymore, so her things no longer belong here.

Going out of town to see friends tonight. Should be a good time, and hopefully get my mood up. I need to get out & have some fun.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Hit,
> 
> Conrad's golden rule:
> 
> ...


Brick,

In case you missed this the last time.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Brick,
> 
> In case you missed this the last time.


You're right, in the end we all choose what we do. She chose her actions. She had the choice between walking away, and the harder path of working things out, getting counciling, and building something better than we had. She chose to walk away, and shoot me down every time I reached out.

And everything I do from here is my choice now. There's nothing there for me to cling onto now. And I'm finding that to be really sad, and liberating at the same time.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> You're right, in the end we all choose what we do. She chose her actions. She had the choice between walking away, and the harder path of working things out, getting counciling, and building something better than we had. She chose to walk away, and shoot me down every time I reached out.
> 
> And everything I do from here is my choice now. There's nothing there for me to cling onto now. And I'm finding that to be really sad, and liberating at the same time.


I know exactly what you mean, it's a very odd feeling.

In time, the sadness fades, and the feeling of freedom intensifies.

You're behind the wheel of your life again now. In all honesty, you always were, just as I was, sometimes it takes a massive trauma to make us realise this though.

Remember, life isn't good, life isn't bad. Life is what you make it.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I have to say the last few days have done me me some good. Went out by my friend's for a couple nights and had a great time. Came back, hung out with a friend that afternoon, & caught up with family for dinner. It's good to be remember that I can have a good time without her.

Kind of having a mixed bag of emotions about all of this though. I'm mostly accepting that it's over. I wish she'd have a change of heart about us, but I no longer see it as likely, and definitely impossible without a drastic change on her side. I'm glad our meeting Tues happened, it made me able to start moving on. But her actions have left me pretty bitter. Both because she's hurt me every time I've tried to work things out, and because she's hurt me enough to give up the hope we'd R. NC doesn't feel like it will be a problem now, because I'm not looking forward to any further contact. I think I've started to equate contact with her with getting hurt.

I think my next steps should be getting her off my cell phone plan & getting her remaining things out of the house. I don't want her dragging this out & leaving excuses to come around again. I definitely don't want to go through watching her move things out again. The cell plan I've heard I can authorize her to remove her # from the plan. Then just shoot her a text to call in & take over her phone. The things she left here I think I'll drop off at her dad's when she's not around.

I feel like I need to start cutting those strings she tried to leave behind. A nagging thought in the back of my head wants to think this will somehow wake her up. But I know it really won't, and that I can't let myself think that. I just need to remove some of these daily reminders of her. I am worried that this is going to cause her to contact me though.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Well I got moving on the cell phone. Texted her the # to call to take over her account. I kept my side short & to the point. She said she'll handle it tomorrow.

As I guessed, she tried making conversation again, asking how my trip out of town was. I was able to let it go & put my phone down without responding. I don't know why she does this, and it seems common in other threads here. Maybe it is just to make her feel like she's not the bad guy, even though she walked away from our relationship.

I just don't understand how she, or other WAS's I read about here, can hurt someone so badly that they said they loved, and then try to act like you can suddenly be friends. Do they really believe this? My friends have been there for me through this, while she obviously hasn't. My friends care about how I'm doing through this, while she's shown she doesn't. Why would I want a friend in my life that has hurt me this badly, and has shown she doesn't care about me? And how could she think I would want that?

She mentioned she wants to pick her things up from the garage, and will be in the area next week. I think I'm going to drop it off at her dad's instead. I don't think I can handle seeing her again, or watching her leave again.

Edit:
Re-reading this, I'm realizing just how bitter I've felt towards her since seeing her Tues. The way she acted Tues hurt me pretty badly. Since that night it's like a switch flipped in my brain replacing a lot of the hurt with bitterness. I don't know if this is normal or unhealthy, but I don't like it.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> Well I got moving on the cell phone. Texted her the # to call to take over her account. I kept my side short & to the point. She said she'll handle it tomorrow.
> 
> As I guessed, she tried making conversation again, asking how my trip out of town was. I was able to let it go & put my phone down without responding. I don't know why she does this, and it seems common in other threads here. Maybe it is just to make her feel like she's not the bad guy, even though she walked away from our relationship.
> 
> ...


It is completely normal. It is your head and your heart starting to come together - and realize you are better off without someone who is so willing, and able, to hurt you with absolutely no remorse. Don't drown in the bitterness and it will eventually turn into mild contempt. You will wonder why you ever cared for someone that could be so despicable. You will then hardly think of her at all...

That will be the day you _know_ you are happier without her and her leaving was actually a blessing.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> I just don't understand how she, or other WAS's I read about here, can hurt someone so badly that they said they loved, and then try to act like you can suddenly be friends. Do they really believe this? My friends have been there for me through this, while she obviously hasn't. My friends care about how I'm doing through this, while she's shown she doesn't. Why would I want a friend in my life that has hurt me this badly, and has shown she doesn't care about me? And how could she think I would want that?


Because she is not in your shoes and is not on the receiving end of the rejection and abandonment. She has no idea how you feel and does not want to. She doesn't want to be your friend - she just doesn't want to feel like a complete dirt bag. I think you've done good by drawing that boundary for yourself.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Today's been an emotional rollercoaster.

Made the mistake of looking at some old pictures again. Started out missing the good times we had together. Then my mind went to all the bad times - not seeing each other, being alone at home, and everything she's put me through these last few months.

Felt like I needed to do something, so I boxed up her things in the spare bedroom. Was going to drop them off, and realized I can't get her bicycle in my car. Sent her a text to see what day she wanted to pick up her things. Pretty much went downhill from there. Asked her if she wanted to pick things up in the day or evening, basically when I'm here or gone. She left it up to me, and I made the mistake of bringing up Tues and saying day is better. I got back "I'm sorry" and it kind of set me off.

Short version : she admitted she was harsh on Tues about not talking & doesn't want to feel like she's breaking up with me every time we talk. I told her I went into Tues with hope, and saw she's clearly not interested. She said maybe I don't know how to be her friend. I told her she was right, and one reason I wanted counseling was to get the tools/skills to get engaged in each others lives again & have a healthier relationship. Stopped getting any response after that. Told her that if she wants to work things out let me know & we'll work out a plan, otherwise I'll leave her alone. Gave her the garage code to come pick up her stuff.

I probably did all the wrong things again, and I'm not really sure why I let it go that far. At least I feel like I was able to get some things off my chest that she wouldn't let me say on Tues. I stayed civil, told her how I felt, what I want, and made it clear we can't just be friends. 

I regret pushing the issue, and especially doing it over text, but it's done. I'm going to try & stick to NC again. I don't think I have anything left to say, and once her things are gone, there's nothing to really discuss unless she somehow changes her mind, which I don't see happening anymore.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Yep, you backslid. Now you know and won't do it again.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Today's been an emotional rollercoaster.
> 
> Made the mistake of looking at some old pictures again. Started out missing the good times we had together. Then my mind went to all the bad times - not seeing each other, being alone at home, and everything she's put me through these last few months.
> 
> ...


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm doing better tonight, and realizing how hard I backslid Sun. I think once my bitterness towards her finally started to calm down a bit I sunk straight back to depressed & missing her.

Conrad - I see palates of 2x4s, but I'm not getting the reference?

Was still having a hard time today especially after seeing that she did finally get her cell phone off my plan today, so I went to visit family after work for a bit. Helped to get some things out & get my head on straight. I have to say I've been a lot closer with my family lately than I ever have. They've been there for me through this, along with some good friends. I think this has at least given me a different perspective on the other people in my life.

Had my 1st swim class today. Helped get my mood up quite a bit. Went a lot better than I expected & had a lot of fun. Next class isn't until Jan due to the holidays, but I guess it'll give me something to look forward to.

I think I need to stay focused on keeping busy & NC. Once I let myself sit around the house too much my mood goes downhill fast. And I really need to stick to NC, every time I contact her it goes badly for me. It's just hard to push away that feeling that I need to do something to get her back. All it does is push her away, and the sad fact is that she's probably not coming back anyway.

I probably need to get back to reading on codependency again. I'm having a hard time letting go & letting life happen.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You don't get the reference?

She says, "You don't know how to be her friend", and you say, "That's right"?

And, you don't know why anyone would drop a lumberyard on your head?

Why in the world would you WANT to be a friend when hearing that she has another man would CRUSH you emotionally?

Why subject yourself to that?

Why dance to her tune?

Hence, the lumber.

Ask Honorbound how it feels.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You don't get the reference?
> 
> She says, "You don't know how to be her friend", and you say, "That's right"?
> 
> ...


Just didn't get the lumberyard reference, makes sense now.

I didn't mean it as only being a friend, was trying to refer to that part of our former relationship. Maybe it came out wrong. There's no way I could just be a friend to her after 15 years together, that's about the only thing I've been sure of through this.

But what I meant doesn't matter, I never should have picked up the phone in the 1st place.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Just didn't get the lumberyard reference, makes sense now.
> 
> I didn't mean it as only being a friend, was trying to refer to that part of our former relationship. Maybe it came out wrong. There's no way I could just be a friend to her after 15 years together, that's about the only thing I've been sure of through this.
> 
> But what I meant doesn't matter, I never should have picked up the phone in the 1st place.


Now you're talking....

Good man.

FYI - when she says something like, "You don't know how to do this or that.."

That's blame.

And, you are not ok with it.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> But what I meant doesn't matter, I never should have picked up the phone in the 1st place.


A member here once told me that "should" is a dirty word.

Should implies judgement, fault, and the wrong decision (in the past tense). 

"I should have been a better husband, but I wasn't" - thought's like these will eat away at you. "Should" breeds self loathing, guilt and anger. Don't dwell on the "should" - merely observe, learn, and then let it go.

Nobody gets it right all the time, nobody. Don't be too hard on yourself because you think you made the "wrong" decision.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> Nobody gets it right all the time, nobody. Don't be too hard on yourself because you think you made the "wrong" decision.



Even _I_ woke up five minutes late once...

<<Blows on nails and buffs them on his sleeve>>

... Oh yeah, I also gave STBXW2 a ride one morning during an ice storm after which she ripped my heart out - again...

... And, uh, yeah, I gave her _another_ chance after she _showed_ me who she really was early on...

.... Oh, I then descended one compromise at a time into POS tendencies wrapped in a warm blanket of self-loathing...

<<Looks around for place to disappear>>

...Oh - shut up. Leave me alone. 

:rofl:


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Honorbound said:


> Even _I_ woke up five minutes late once...
> 
> <<Blows on nails and buffs them on his sleeve>>
> 
> ...


And I did similar things, I chased, begged, tried to "win" her back (You can't win people, people aren't trophies). I gave her numerous chances to R. Whilst in the relationship I didn't set or hold boundaries. I always let her have her own way.

The biggest thing was taking her back after she had an EA/PA 3 years prior.

Notice I didn't use "should" merely stated some of my shortcomings in this whole process.

I know what I did wrong, I know how to make it right (for myself, not my marriage, that's FUBAR). So, those "shouldas" can be laid to rest.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> And I did similar things, I chased, begged, tried to "win" her back (You can't win people, people aren't trophies). I gave her numerous chances to R. Whilst in the relationship I didn't set or hold boundaries. I always let her have her own way.
> 
> The biggest thing was taking her back after she had an EA/PA 3 years prior.
> 
> ...


Do you know what the difference is between those who succeed and those who fail?


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Do you know what the difference is between those who succeed and those who fail?


All I know is, you only ever fail when you give up trying.

What's the difference?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> All I know is, you only ever fail when you give up trying.
> 
> What's the difference?


Those who succeed get up one more time.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Those who succeed get up one more time.





> you only ever fail when you give up trying.


To me, these are the same.

My marriage failed. It failed because she wouldn't fight for it. I kept trying to fight for it, albeit the wrong way, but there's no such thing as a one-sided fight.

It had to stop.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> To me, these are the same.
> 
> My marriage failed. It failed because she wouldn't fight for it. I kept trying to fight for it, albeit the wrong way, but there's no such thing as a one-sided fight.
> 
> It had to stop.


It failed because you were attracted to each other for the wrong reasons.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> It failed because you were attracted to each other for the wrong reasons.


Sorry I didn't make my previous post very clear.

Of course, all of the underlying issues (my codependency & Nice Guy traits, her entitled princess mindset and NPD traits) are what caused it to fail.

Her giving up on the marriage was what finally made it a failure though, I was willing to work through anything.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> Sorry I didn't make my previous post very clear.
> 
> Of course, all of the underlying issues (my codependency & Nice Guy traits, her entitled princess mindset and NPD traits) are what caused it to fail.
> 
> Her giving up on the marriage was what finally made it a failure though, I was willing to work through anything.


She saw someone she could manipulate.

Users are drawn to those types - and it's rarely a conscious type of decision.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> She saw someone she could manipulate.
> 
> Users are drawn to those types - and it's rarely a conscious type of decision.


Indeed, a codependent Nice Guy would be the ideal person for someone with her traits to manipulate.

The good news is, in my many conversations with other women since, I have spotted some major red flags with some of them, alarm bells ring and I steer clear.

For example, one said this to me:

"I'll never be able to love myself. I need to find someone who loves me enough for both of us".

RUN WWB, RUN!!!!!

I'm learning, gradually


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> Indeed, a codependent Nice Guy would be the ideal person for someone with her traits to manipulate.
> 
> The good news is, in my many conversations with other women since, I have spotted some major red flags with some of them, alarm bells ring and I steer clear.
> 
> ...


Read the Fitness Test thread again. You can actually have plenty of fun with that as you practice standing up for yourself.

Here's the key thing. We have a need to remain interested in the other person. So, a certain amount of friction is what keeps passion from dying.

And, of course, passion is what guys want/need.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Read the Fitness Test thread again. You can actually have plenty of fun with that as you practice standing up for yourself.
> 
> Here's the key thing. We have a need to remain interested in the other person. So, a certain amount of friction is what keeps passion from dying.
> 
> And, of course, passion is what guys want/need.


That's a good thread - I've also read about them elsewhere and they've been referred to as "sh*t tests".

Interest is key, you're right. I have no interest in dating someone needy or with self-esteem issues ever again. Hence why my interactions with this woman haven't gone beyond friendly conversation, and never will!

Passion is great, I'm all for passion.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> That's a good thread - I've also read about them elsewhere and they've been referred to as "sh*t tests".
> 
> Interest is key, you're right. I have no interest in dating someone needy or with self-esteem issues ever again. Hence why my interactions with this woman haven't gone beyond friendly conversation, and never will!
> 
> Passion is great, I'm all for passion.


If you read up in the Men's Clubhouse and/or the Sex in Marriage thread, you'll quickly realize that men and women often marry for totally different reasons.

If you are to marry again, you want to marry someone who is getting married for the same reasons you are.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> If you read up in the Men's Clubhouse and/or the Sex in Marriage thread, you'll quickly realize that men and women often marry for totally different reasons.
> 
> If you are to marry again, you want to marry someone who is getting married for the same reasons you are.


As it stands, I have no plans to ever re-marry, but I guess all the pain is a little fresh still!

I thought she was getting married for the same reason I was, it turns out that she wasn't!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> As it stands, I have no plans to ever re-marry, but I guess all the pain is a little fresh still!
> 
> I thought she was getting married for the same reason I was, it turns out that she wasn't!


You can tell when you observe from 50k


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You can tell when you observe from 50k


I was too clouded by emotions.

A man needs to be able to set his emotions aside. That's how a man controls his life, that's how a man leads.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

A lot of good info here.

I don't think the "shoulds" are my biggest problem. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of my own actions I'd change if I could. But I know I cant't change the past, just what I do going forward.

I think it's the "coulds" that eat me up the most. After she told me she was going to leave in Oct, and after I got over the initial shock, I had committed myself to working things out with her & working towards the future. Unfortunately she wasn't willing to step up & work with me. Now when I get depressed, it's the "coulds" that get me. What could I do to change her mind, or what things could be like if we both tried.

I haven't wanted to go back to what we had the last few years, it was clearly broken. But after being so determined to work things out, imagining what that potential could turn into, that perfect vision of what could have happened is what's so hard to let go of. At this point it's nothing but a fantasy, but it's still hard to shake.

Another thing that bothers me is that I wasn't always codependent. I let that happen to me sometime after she took this job and I stopped seeing her much. There was a time where I was independent, and didn't lose myself in our relationship. I'm finding it insanely hard to get back to that state of mind. I get short periods of peace, but then it's back to the rollercoaster. Just not thinking about her for a while seems like an accomplishment most days.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> A lot of good info here.
> 
> I don't think the "shoulds" are my biggest problem. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of my own actions I'd change if I could. But I know I cant't change the past, just what I do going forward.
> 
> ...


What you "could" have done and what you "should" have done are very closely related. I don't like using "could" in the past tense either.

"I should have been a better husband."

"To achieve that I could have done X, Y, Z."

Do you see the correlation? 

Focus less on what you _could_ have done in the past, and focus on what _can_ do now in the present.

If you focus on making the best of your present, the future will take care of itself.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> What you "could" have done and what you "should" have done are very closely related. I don't like using "could" in the past tense either.
> 
> "I should have been a better husband."
> 
> ...


It's not so much what I could or should have done in the past. I know I made mistakes I have to live with, and that it's up to me to not make those same mistakes again. I've never been the optimistic type, but once I had committed myself to working things out with her back in October, that was an outlook I had to change.

The "coulds" that get me are more along the lines of what we could have if she'd have been willing to talk about our issues & try to work through them. Part of me still feels that if we both gave it our full effort and got counseling we could work through our issues and have a healthy relationship. Even if we did try & still failed, at least we'd have given it an honest attempt.

The fact that I wanted to try, saw the potential for something better between us, and she just walked away, that's what eats me up. I mean, zero interest or effort no matter what I did. I tried to make visible improvements, tried to arrange activities or dates for us, and all she did was dig her heels in more. I tried to get her to go to counciling with me after doing a lot lot of research on it, and she shot me down after 20 seconds. Eventually I tried to structure a seperation between us with a goal of trying to eventually R, and she still shot me down. Most of the time she'd refuse to talk, or tell me "I can't do this right now". And then she left.

It's almost as if she knew that if she had sat down and talked with me about our issues we could work things out, and that's why she refused.

After 15 years, she left & refused to even entertain giving us a real chance. And then seeing her again a month later, trying to act like a cold stranger. I don't know if it was an act, if she changed after leaving, or if I've just had my blinders on.

That's the "could" that eats away at me. What would have happened if she had said "yes" to making a real attempt at R, getting counciling, and giving it our best.

I know at this point it's a pipe dream, a fantasy. That it takes 2 people to fix a relationship, and she's plainly not interested. At this point I resent her for leaving as much as for taking away the chance to find out what we might have had. For her her adventure in life was leaving, and whatever it is she's doing with her life. For me, the adventure I wanted was to see what could happen between us. She took that away with her.

Now it seems I get the adventure in life I didn't want, starting over alone. Accepting that, and letting go of how things might have been, is a hard thing to do. I wish I could let myself think she'll come to her senses and come back. But I can't let myself do that. It'll hold me back, and it just doesn't seem realistic anymore given her actions. 

I tried fighting for us, but I was the only one willing. I can't tell anymore whether I've just given up too early & need to keep fighting, or whether I'm giving up because she's making it clear she's not interested. Either way I know I need to keep working on myself and take things a day at a time, and not keep hoping for something I can't have. Some days are just harder than others.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> It's not so much what I could or should have done in the past. I know I made mistakes I have to live with, and that it's up to me to not make those same mistakes again. I've never been the optimistic type, but once I had committed myself to working things out with her back in October, that was an outlook I had to change.
> 
> The "coulds" that get me are more along the lines of what we could have if she'd have been willing to talk about our issues & try to work through them. Part of me still feels that if we both gave it our full effort and got counseling we could work through our issues and have a healthy relationship. Even if we did try & still failed, at least we'd have given it an honest attempt.
> 
> ...


Why do you wish this? This would lead to more emotional torture for you. You're right not to let yourself do that, but don't wish that you _could_.

I know where you're coming from about trying to fight, I did the same thing, and there comes a point in which you think "why bother?" - this isn't giving up, you're not a failure. It takes two to fight, if one person isn't willing to participate, then there is no fight to give up on.

Someone gave me some advice on my thread - Sandfly I believe. I'm not sure if I can quote it word for word, but it's along the lines of this:

Those who live in the past are depressed.
Those who live in the future and anxious.
Those who live in the present are at peace.

Take it day by day. You can't change the past and you can't control the future.

To quote Conrad - "Learn to be still".


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

What _could_ I do if I could read minds?

What _could_ I do if I could fly?

What _could_ I do if I were a six-hundred foot fire-breathing lizard?

What _could_ I do if I were invisible? 

All questions without answers, and there will never be answers until they happen.

Just because you see the future you _could_ have had, it doesn't mean it would have been so.

Infinite possibilities.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> Those who live in the past are depressed.
> Those who live in the future and anxious.
> Those who live in the present are at peace.
> .


Pretty scary how true that is.

I know there's no fight left to fight. And the more I fight for her, the more I'm pushing her away. So either way I have to stop.

NC is a hard thing, maybe it's my codependency but it goes against every instinct. Now and then I still want to reach out, try another approach, try to find what I can do to convince her to try, like it's a puzzle I'm trying to solve. Then I remember that the reality is that nothing I can do will change her mind. She has to choose what she wants on her own.

I still want her to come back, to try. There's nothing I can do to influence that, and it's frustrating beyond measure. I know I need to let go of hope for R whether she comes back or not. And mostly I have. It's still hard to let go of.

I think I've got a much better understanding now of what everyone here told me early on, & why. To go NC & 180. I really wish I had followed the advice here from the start. Every time I didn't I made my situation worse. I guess now all I can do is keep going forward & see what life brings. Or at least keep trying, and try to avoid backslides.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> Pretty scary how true that is.
> 
> I know there's no fight left to fight. And the more I fight for her, the more I'm pushing her away. So either way I have to stop.
> 
> ...


I know exactly how you feel and I did exactly the same things. It's hard when people are giving you advice that goes against your every instinct.

I kept telling myself "No, she's different, our situation is different". It wasn't. Like you I wished I'd listened to all of the advice from the start. I tried to take it on board but my codependency and instincts got the better of me.

I don't know if you've read my thread, but there may be some stuff in there that you'll find helpful.

Stay strong fella - you got the strength in you for this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> I know exactly how you feel and I did exactly the same things. It's hard when people are giving you advice that goes against your every instinct.


People with healthy instincts don't end up on this board.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Its been mentioned on other threads but the old saying "He who cares the least wins " seems appropriate sorry you here Hit I would continue your journey concentrating on your self and doing new things such as working out, meeting new folks, and taking care of yourself and remember when someone shows us who they really are we need to believe them. Maybe take out one of her best friends you never know - just kidding


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> People with healthy instincts don't end up on this board.


No, they don't. Back then my instincts were driven by my codependency. Codependent instincts are not healthy.

Self-preservation instincts are healthy.

Self-love instincts are healthy.

I'm finding I have these instincts more and more each day, and the codependent instincts less and less. It's a very new experience for me, and despite the obvious pain and trauma, I'm loving having these new & amazing instincts.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

WWB - I have read through your thread, and it's helped quite a bit. I think it was one of the earlier ones I read that got me reading up on codependency. You seem to have made a lot of progress, & I'm hoping I get there eventually.

Driving home from work I started thinking about her again. Been anxious about when she's picking up the last of her things from the garage. Kind of feels like the last connection between us. Part of me wants her to come by when I'm home to give us an excuse to talk, but I'm pretty sure she's going come get her stuff when I'm not here to avoid me. I know it's a stupid thing to concern myself with, her getting the last of her things does not equal her wanting to talk or come back. It's just that last string that hasn't been cut. When it is, I don't know if it's going to hurt, or bring me some peace, but I suppose I'll find out.

Anyway, I've still got that box of things she left in the house that I packed up early in the week. It's been in the spare room as I just haven't had it in me to take it out to the garage. So I took it out there & put it with the rest of her stuff a few minutes ago. Thought it was going to tear me up again. Instead I feel slightly better. Don't know why, just do.

Makes me think I can eventually move on. 2 months ago I was a complete wreck. 1 month ago she left, and I was still a wreck, but at least I could get some sleep. Today, well, I'm still a wreck. But I'm having more good days than I was.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> WWB - I have read through your thread, and it's helped quite a bit. I think it was one of the earlier ones I read that got me reading up on codependency. You seem to have made a lot of progress, & I'm hoping I get there eventually.
> 
> Driving home from work I started thinking about her again. Been anxious about when she's picking up the last of her things from the garage. Kind of feels like the last connection between us. Part of me wants her to come by when I'm home to give us an excuse to talk, but I'm pretty sure she's going come get her stuff when I'm not here to avoid me. I know it's a stupid thing to concern myself with, her getting the last of her things does not equal her wanting to talk or come back. It's just that last string that hasn't been cut. When it is, I don't know if it's going to hurt, or bring me some peace, but I suppose I'll find out.
> 
> ...


I still have off days, but it's a long process. You'll get there too, just give it time .

In a way it would be best if she could take her stuff from the garage without you being there, unless you have the strength to stick to eh 180, and stay at 50k when she comes to collect it. I made my STBXW take her stuff early on, I was still an emotional wreck, but I needed it gone, needed the reminders removed from my life.

Could you be feeling slightly better because it's something you've been putting off and dreading, only to realise it wasn't that bad when you got round to doing it?

Glad you're having more good days - that's a measure of healing.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Edit: Triple post - Database Error -_-


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Edit: Triple post - Database Error


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

WantWifeBack said:


> I still have off days, but it's a long process. You'll get there too, just give it time .
> 
> In a way it would be best if she could take her stuff from the garage without you being there, unless you have the strength to stick to eh 180, and stay at 50k when she comes to collect it. I made my STBXW take her stuff early on, I was still an emotional wreck, but I needed it gone, needed the reminders removed from my life.
> 
> ...


I'm honestly not sure if I have it in me to stick to the 180 if I see her. Part of me would like to, both to show her I'm realizing I can have a life without her, and just to show myself I'm capable of it. But I can't say for certain if I could hold myself together. I'm going to let life happen for once, either I see her & deal with it as best I can, or I just come home, see her stuff gone, & change the garage code.

I think you're right about when I put the box away. I probably did feel a bit better just because I got it done & it wasn't that bad.

Been thinking a bit about how I left that text conversation with her on Sun. Had discussed it a bit with family last night. I had ended it basically saying that if she wanted to try & R, let me know & we can work out a plan, otherwise I'll leave her alone. It was pointed out to me that I came off a lot stronger than I intended, more like an ultimatum. That wasn't really my intent at the time, but maybe getting that out there was for the best. I want to R, but I won't just be friend, and I'm not going to chase after her like a lost puppy hoping for any attention I can get. She would need to have an interest in R for me to want any contact at this point. 

I haven't heard a word from her since that text conversation, but she did remove her cell phone from my plan. I guess she's telling me everything I need to know right there.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> I'm honestly not sure if I have it in me to stick to the 180 if I see her. Part of me would like to, both to show her I'm realizing I can have a life without her, and just to show myself I'm capable of it. But I can't say for certain if I could hold myself together. I'm going to let life happen for once, either I see her & deal with it as best I can, or I just come home, see her stuff gone, & change the garage code.
> 
> I think you're right about when I put the box away. I probably did feel a bit better just because I got it done & it wasn't that bad.
> 
> ...


Good call dude - focus on her actions. They speak when words are meaningless.

I'm not sure if that's an ultimatum, that's just letting her know you're open to an R. However I think I said in a previous post that my advice would be to forget R and focus on yourself.

I'll let it slide though, because I know how difficult it is.

If you don't know how you'd react to seeing her, it's best not to see her. You need to master your emotions, don't let her see you desperate and miserable. When you see her you want to be happy, to the point and carefree. When you're feeling the way you are at the moment, you can't even fake that. When you can fake that, then re-consider seeing her. But even then faking it will take a tremendous effort.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

WantWifeBack said:


> Good call dude - focus on her actions. They speak when words are meaningless.
> 
> I'm not sure if that's an ultimatum, that's just letting her know you're open to an R. However I think I said in a previous post that my advice would be to forget R and focus on yourself.
> 
> ...


Brick,

I'll go one further.

You letting her know you are "open" to an R is the last way you'll get one.

It has to be her idea.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Brick,
> 
> I'll go one further.
> 
> ...


On the money as always Conrad. I need to be less tactful like you .


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Brick,
> 
> I'll go one further.
> 
> ...


Strange, that sounds wrong & right at the same time. My instincts kept telling me for months to push her for R, despite the advice I received here. Looking back I see that got me no closer to what I wanted. If anything I may have pushed her away instead.

I guess since NC is making sense to me now, not asking for R does too. She's going to do whatever she chooses to do, and I'm finally accepting that nothing I do is going to change that to be in my favor. Pushing for R seems to be doing me about as much good as ordering a steak in a vegetarian restaurant. Not going to get what I want, and probably just make someone angry in the process. 

I need to let go, stop worrying about her choices, and live my life. Easier said than done, but it's something I think I should aim for.

Had an interesting experience right before I left work today. I've been dreading telling most of my coworkers that she's gone. A couple know, but not many. So one of them asked me what I was getting her for Christmas, and the first words out of my mouth were "nothing". Ended up explaining a bit of what happened, and it didn't tear me up like I thought it would. It was a little tough, but a bit of a relief to let it out. Led to an interesting conversation about his divorce, and how much happier he is with his new wife.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, today has been a screwed up day. Not sure I want to go into the details of how I found out, but I found out she is at least in an EA.

I'm 99% sure it's with the same guy I found all the text messages to. A guy I've met twice. A guy I had been concerned about once, and been told he's only a friend. And this is a married man with kids.

I don't know exactly how long it's been going on, or how far it's gone, but I don't care. If this was an EA or PA with someone random I had never heard of, I'd have a hard time considering taking her back. But with a supposed "friend", lying, and the fact that this man has a family. I'm done. Regardless of how far it's gone, this crosses the line.

I'm hurt, and I'm angry. She clearly is not the person I thought she was. Not even close. The woman I thought she was would never do this. Either she changed, or I've been blind for a long time.

All I can say is I'm done. I do not want her back in my life. I find what she's doing insanely hurtful and offensive. There is no place in my life for someone who would do this.

I'm going to try and take something positive from this instead of letting it eat me up. My path forward is pretty clear right now. I need to get my life back together, and she's not going to be a part of that. I want the last of her things gone, and I want her out of my life. I want to get myself whole, figure out what it is I have to offer, meet some decent women, and at some point down the road find one I can connect with.

I don't know how long this is going to take. I know I'm going to have some nasty backslides, and none of this is going to be easy. But the way I see it I have 2 options. I can get drunk, stay drunk, and be miserable & bitter. Or I can force myself to be optimistic, believe that there are good women out there, and that I can find one that's good for me. I'm choosing the latter.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I've calmed down a little bit this morning. Had some trouble sleeping last night. I'm letting this eat me up too much, and for no good reason. I'm still alone, still single. All that's changed is that I no longer want her in my life. I should find some peace from that, but this is harder for me to get over than I thought.

The evidence I found wasn't as bad as what many here find. But she told a friend she's close to him, talked about an activity they were going to do that she wanted to "share" with him, and how his wife was coming along and how she was jealous of her.

Maybe not the most concrete, but between that & the very high volume of texting, she's at a minimum interested in this man. More likely an EA. Maybe more. I had suspected something before, & should have gone with my gut.

When people here talk about the WAS in a "fog", I think I see that now. Every since this started, she's had no real plans. She thinks she can keep me as a friend, no matter how many times I've told her otherwise. Even after my long string of texting on Sun where I was clear I was staying away unless she wanted to really talk, she texts me out of the blue yesterday asking me if I wanted some things a friend of hers was giving away. She just doesn't seem to understand her actions have repercussions. 

I didn't start posting here until shortly before she left. That 1st month was hell for me. Trying to work things out & change while getting nothing back. She tried to act like everything was normal, like we could just get along and keep our normal routines even though she said it was over. I'd try to talk to her about it, and she'd get mad & refuse. The 1st few weeks she continued to sleep naked next to me in bed like there was nothing wrong with it. We spent an entire week off together, with her trying to act like everything was normal. We put up Halloween decorations together. It was a constant cycle of giving me hope & crushing it. All I can say is that the month before she left was an experience I would wish on no one.

Codependency screwed me up. I gave up my right to happiness. I though her happiness was more important than mine. I did a lot of enabling with her, and before that her family did. I don't think she has a firm grasp on the reality of her situation, or what she's done. She's hurt me, and taken advantage of me at every opportunity. I had almost no boundaries, little self respect, and I allowed this to happen.

When I came here I felt like I had been hit by a brick. She was really leaving me & I wanted her back at any cost. This morning I feel like I've been hit by a brick again. Except reality hit me with this one. Everything seems clear right now.

I still want her out of my life. But it's hard to deal with the realization that she is not the person I thought she was. That I could have given up so much of myself, spent so many years with her, and end up with this. I thought she was this wonderful, sweet, caring woman that I needed back in my life. I at least think she used to be that person, and that was the woman I wanted back. The woman I see now is nothing like that. She's hurtful, doesn't see how her actions affect others, and doesn't care. The woman I loved is gone.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brick,

When someone tells this in their introductory story, you know damned well they're codependent:

_"My take on this, which I have told her repeatedly, is that if we made it 15 years without a clue, if we work together now we could be better than ever. I want to take this as an opportunity, not just call it a failure. And right now she just wants to leave, and make no commitments to try to reconcile.

I feel like I've tried everything I can, and just keep failing. She tells me she still loves me and that I'll always be a part of her life, yet she's still leaving. I'm trying for a real commitment & effort between us, and she just wants to walk away & be on her own. She said she still wants to be friends and have me in her life, but that's just not possible. We did agree a few days ago that we should sit down and talk sometime after she leaves and we've had some time to calm down, but I have no idea where that will go."_

What's your impression of that now?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Read this:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/60683-what-do-i-dont-know.html


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Brick,
> 
> When someone tells this in their introductory story, you know damned well they're codependent:
> 
> ...


It's a little strange to read that now. I was desperate, and in denial. Focused on her, and on "fixing" the problem.

None of what I wrote gave any consideration to whether I was really happy, what I wanted, or what I needed. I never even questioned what was really best for me.

Back then my gut told me there was more to it than she was telling me. I didn't know what, I didn't ask, and I let it go.

Should have listened to her actions, not her words. Shouldn't have tried to "control" the outcome. Should have just let her go. You can't make someone love you or stay with you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> It's a little strange to read that now. I was desperate, and in denial. Focused on her, and on "fixing" the problem.
> 
> None of what I wrote gave any consideration to whether I was really happy, what I wanted, or what I needed. I never even questioned what was really best for me.
> 
> ...


Even if you could, it's not healthy to think so little of yourself that you'd be pleased with that.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Even if you could, it's not healthy to think so little of yourself that you'd be pleased with that.


You're right. I realized some time after she left that I wanted her to come back because she wanted to. In that 1st month though, I'd have settled for anything. Now, with the direction she appears to be heading, and how low she appears to be going, I don't think I could take her back at all.

I've been feeling strung out all day. Thought is was just from feeling hurt. Then I read something zillard wrote, about trying to anticipate his stbxw's actions, and not living in the present. 

Realized I'm doing the same thing. Worrying about when she's going to retrieve the last of her things. What she may be doing with this other man, just how low she will go & how far she will take it. When will she try to contact me next. Wondering how she could be delusional about us being friends. Wondering whether she will eventually realize what she's done, & the repercussions of her actions. Wondering if she's going to try and use me as plan B when this falls apart on her.

Yet none of this really matters. Except for a few things in the garage, and her occasional text, she's out of my life. I've been sitting here stressing away about things that no longer affect me, instead of enjoying my day off.

I need to be better about living in the present, and learn to push these thoughts aside.

If I do choose to think about the future, it needs to be about my future. What I need to heal & move on. And being careful, because I'm concerned I'm going to try & push myself through this too fast. 

Have a few friends wanting to push me through this fast as well. It's been suggested I start going out & meeting women. I know it's inevitable that this is going to happen, and a part of me is excited to see that there are healthy women out there. But I'm nowhere near over this, and need to do a lot of work on myself. And after spending my entire adult life with the same woman, the idea of dating is just plain terrifying & foreign.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> Have a few friends wanting to push me through this fast as well. It's been suggested I start going out & meeting women. I know it's inevitable that this is going to happen, and a part of me is excited to see that there are healthy women out there. But I'm nowhere near over this, and need to do a lot of work on myself. And after spending my entire adult life with the same woman, the idea of dating is just plain terrifying & foreign.


Who says you need to look for anything serious, or even anything sexual? It will help to just get out there and talk to women, perhaps flirt a little if you're feeling ready for it. There comes a point when doing things like this help the recovery process instead of hinder it - but only you can decide when you're ready.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Have a few friends wanting to push me through this fast as well. It's been suggested I start going out & meeting women. I know it's inevitable that this is going to happen, and a part of me is excited to see that there are healthy women out there. But I'm nowhere near over this, and need to do a lot of work on myself. And after spending my entire adult life with the same woman, the idea of dating is just plain terrifying & foreign.


Be cautious here about new relationships. I have a problem picking the right kind of woman. I know this because I'm on my second D now. The reason my woman "picker" is bad is because I didn't work on myself and fix myself before I entered into a new relationship and now here I am again. This time, I've spent the last year rebuilding myself with counseling and a massive amount of introspection and action. I am not the same dumb ass that married these broken women. All of the signals were there these women were broken, but I chose not to dig too deep. I was the King of Average Frustrated Chumps (AFC) and also had a white knight complex to RUSH in and save these diamonds in the rough. I hoped to be rewarded with love and sex. At first, yes. As it went on, no and I became resentful and dissatisfied. Never again. No rescuing, fixing, controlling, nice-guying, white-knighting, saving, etc.

My advice to you now is to go through what you are going through. There are no shortcuts to the grieving, but don't linger. I like Winston Churchill's saying: "When going through hell, don't stop." You're right, HBAB. She's going to do whatever she wants with whomever she wants. Once you take her off the pedestal in your mind, you will care less and less. She's rushing into another relationship while still married. That's AFU and not your concern any longer. 

Take every opportunity to work on those things about you that need fixing. You contributed to the relationship breakdown too. That was quite a pill I had to swallow for myself. I was too busy blaming my diamond in the rough for cheating, being a walk-away spouse to identify my own problems in the relationship. Work on not only the rediscovery of hobbies and going to the gym, but the internal stuff that you know needs a tune-up. It is critical to your future to do so.

Once you're good with who you are, then I recommend dating. WWB is correct, I think with regards to flirting and banter. That stuff is okay as you don't need to mope in your head and man cave all day. Just watch the rebound. I was a fool. Don't be.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

helolover said:


> Be cautious here about new relationships. I have a problem picking the right kind of woman. I know this because I'm on my second D now. The reason my woman "picker" is bad is because I didn't work on myself and fix myself before I entered into a new relationship and now here I am again. This time, I've spent the last year rebuilding myself with counseling and a massive amount of introspection and action. I am not the same dumb ass that married these broken women. All of the signals were there these women were broken, but I chose not to dig too deep. I was the King of Average Frustrated Chumps (AFC) and also had a white knight complex to RUSH in and save these diamonds in the rough. I hoped to be rewarded with love and sex. At first, yes. As it went on, no and I became resentful and dissatisfied. Never again. No rescuing, fixing, controlling, nice-guying, white-knighting, saving, etc.
> 
> My advice to you now is to go through what you are going through. There are no shortcuts to the grieving, but don't linger. I like Winston Churchill's saying: "When going through hell, don't stop." You're right, HBAB. She's going to do whatever she wants with whomever she wants. Once you take her off the pedestal in your mind, you will care less and less. She's rushing into another relationship while still married. That's AFU and not your concern any longer.
> 
> ...


This.

I am very cautious with who I get involved with.

I am still at a very fragile stage. I am not there yet. No way am I getting involved in a serious relationship until I get myself sorted out completely.

I also recommend that you folks do the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sorry, Brick, your story had affair written all over it.

She didn't want to talk to you (work on the marriage) because she couldn't tell you everything. 

If she can't tell you everything then she can't tell you anything because the story won't make sense.

I have a little experience with this situation.

Work on yourself. Prepare yourself.

It may get worse before it gets better.

Whether the things she says or does affect you, from this point forward, is up to you.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Have a question about something I'm really undecided on. Is it worth calling her out on this?

Part of me wants to see if she has the guts to admit what she's doing. The other part of me wants to get her things out & cut my losses.

I'm leaning towards just moving on. Calling her out isn't likely to bring any good into my life, and would probably just drag this out more. 

Not sure if the temptation do so is out of spite, curiosity, or my codependent tenancies to "fix" or "save" her.

Really need some advice on this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Have a question about something I'm really undecided on. Is it worth calling her out on this?
> 
> Part of me wants to see if she has the guts to admit what she's doing. The other part of me wants to get her things out & cut my losses.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by calling her out?

Be specific.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Brick,

Are you actually expecting her to answer your questions honestly?


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Have a question about something I'm really undecided on. Is it worth calling her out on this?
> 
> Part of me wants to see if she has the guts to admit what she's doing. The other part of me wants to get her things out & cut my losses.
> 
> ...


Confronting her, with the little evidence you have, is pointless.

Blameshift, deny, gaslight...

Same thing she's been doing. 

Why would she change now?

What do you expect to gain?


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, the more recent item I found about her being close to him & being jealous of his wife I'm not telling her due to how I found out.

I guess that leaves me with the texts. Huge quantity, day & night. Goes back months, and ramped up lately.

But I've got no content. Nothing concrete. So who knows if she'll just deny/ignore/blame-shift.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Well, the more recent item I found about her being close to him & being jealous of his wife I'm not telling her due to how I found out.
> 
> I guess that leaves me with the texts. Huge quantity, day & night. Goes back months, and ramped up lately.
> 
> But I've got no content. Nothing concrete. So who knows if she'll just deny/ignore/blame-shift.


The only thing that will help that situation at all is to give your evidence to posOMW.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Well, the more recent item I found about her being close to him & being jealous of his wife I'm not telling her due to how I found out.
> 
> I guess that leaves me with the texts. Huge quantity, day & night. Goes back months, and ramped up lately.
> 
> But I've got no content. Nothing concrete. So who knows if she'll just deny/ignore/blame-shift.


The question you should be asking is whether or not to let OM's wife know...

Conrad beat me to it...


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

Unless you have irrefutable proof it is unlikely she will admit to anything, Brick. People don't usually admit to being a cheating POS. Sometimes even with irrefutable proof. Even if they do, they'll try to make it out like it was YOUR fault that they are that way.

However, if you DO have proof of an affair - by all means, make her really see herself for what she really is. The POSOM too... and his wife/girlfriend if he has one.

If you don't have anything other than strong suspicions, sadly, you would just be wasting your time confronting her.

Cut her out of your life and move on, brother.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

You're all making me ask myself the hard questions I should have asked myself in the 1st place. Thank you.

-Do I expect her to be honest with me? No. Nothing she's done gives me any reason to expect honesty or trust.

-Why would she change now? I guess part of me wants to think this change in her is temporary, that the woman I knew is still in there somewhere. And now that I say that, I realize just how foolish that is. She's gone.

-What do I expect to gain? That's more complicated. At a basic level, I think I just want to feel less hurt, less betrayed. And I'm worried the codependent side of me wants to "save" her from what she's doing. I guess I really have nothing to gain here. This isn't going to help me. I can't "control" her or the situation. It's her life to live, even if she's flushing her integrity down the toilet.

As for POSOM's wife, if I had anything concrete, something undeniably incriminating, I'd get it to her. But I don't. I have enough for myself to realize there's at least an EA happening, but not enough to prove it to her. I wish I did. I really do feel for the woman, and hope for her family's sake POSOM comes to his senses and backs out of this if he's not already gone too far.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> You're all making me ask myself the hard questions I should have asked myself in the 1st place. Thank you.
> 
> -Do I expect her to be honest with me? No. Nothing she's done gives me any reason to expect honesty or trust.
> 
> ...


Why the hesitancy to compare notes?


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Why the hesitancy to compare notes?


It doesn't feel right interfering with someone's family without something concrete to show.

I know the ex has a strong emotional attachment to him. And there's far more communication between them than is appropriate. I'm 99% certain it's an EA. But if there's a 1% chance I'm wrong, do I have the right to put their family into turmoil? Or do I need to warn her that there is at least a potential problem?


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> It doesn't feel right interfering with someone's family without something concrete to show.
> 
> I know the ex has a strong emotional attachment to him. And there's far more communication between them than is appropriate. I'm 99% certain it's an EA. But if there's a 1% chance I'm wrong, do I have the right to put their family into turmoil? Or do I need to warn her that there is at least a potential problem?


If she knew 6 months ago what you know now, would you have wanted her to fill you in?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> It doesn't feel right interfering with someone's family without something concrete to show.
> 
> I know the ex has a strong emotional attachment to him. And there's far more communication between them than is appropriate. I'm 99% certain it's an EA. But if there's a 1% chance I'm wrong, do I have the right to put their family into turmoil? Or do I need to warn her that there is at least a potential problem?


Sounds like you're still afraid.

If he's not doing anything wrong, he has nothing to fear.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> If she knew 6 months ago what you know now, would you have wanted her to fill you in?


You're right. I would.

Finding a way to contact her is proving more of a problem than I thought though. I've only seen her once, and don't remember her name. Figured a quick trip online would fix that, but I'm striking out.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> You're right. I would.
> 
> Finding a way to contact her is proving more of a problem than I thought though. I've only seen her once, and don't remember her name. Figured a quick trip online would fix that, but I'm striking out.


I have certain means available to me.

PM me if you'd like my help.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Had a good day yesterday. Was able to feel somewhat at peace with my situation in life. Spent some time playing video games, something I gave up when this started. Something I've always enjoyed, but it had turned into an escape for me later in our relationship. Decided it was a hobby I missed, and that I could handle it again. Hung out with the neighbor for a while. Made myself a good dinner. Nothing spectacular, but a pretty decent day.

Today not so much. Been obsessing about things since the moment I woke up. Trying to step back, figure out why I'm feeling like this, and let it pass. Folks here say to get to 50k. Feel more like I'm at 10k.

I think part of what makes it hard is the unanswered questions, and knowing I'm never going to get an answer. When did she check out? Why didn't she try harder before that? Didn't she see her part in this? When exactly did she change from being the woman I knew? How far did things go with OM, and for how long? Why did she walk away after I tried to step up? Why did she have that conversation with me the day she left? Why did she agree to meet a month later when she knew we weren't on the same page? Why has she dragged all this out? Why has she tried to initiate contact after I made my position clear. And how can a person change so much so quickly, from someone my codependent self put on a pedestal, to someone I want gone from my life? Or maybe more appropriately, how long was I blind?

I'll never get all the answers. Yet it's my nature to find answers and "fix" problems. A great trait in my career, but a pretty lousy trait in my personal life. Maybe accepting that I can't get all the answers is just going to be a part of the healing process for me. I'm certainly learning that I can't "fix" everything, and it's a painful lesson.

And with the questions, there's the feeling that go with them. Hurt, loss, anger, resentment, betrayal, sadness, grief.... I'm trying to step back & let it pass. Just easier said than done. I keep wishing I could fast forward through the next few months, and get to that better point I see ahead of me. But I can't. I think the changes I've made for myself so far have made me a better person. I guess I need to try & stay on this track, and try to take something positive out of this.

On a brighter note, I'm getting a Christmas gift today. Texted her on Mon that she still needs to get her things from the garage. As expected, I got excuses why she hasn't gotten her things yet. Held my ground, kept it to business, and was clear she needed to do it this week. So she's coming this afternoon. Don't know why she's not going to be with her family instead, but that's not my problem. I won't be here, so I won't have to see her. But I'm looking forward to coming home to the last of her things gone.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> I'll never get all the answers. Yet it's my nature to find answers and "fix" problems. A great trait in my career, but a pretty lousy trait in my personal life.


Tattoo this on your forehead.

Do you also find a need to convince people of things?


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Tattoo this on your forehead.
> 
> Do you also find a need to convince people of things?


In the past, I don't think I've been someone that needs to convince people of things. With most situations, I'm fine with others having a different point of view. I'd try to make my point for a while and move on.

Lately, sometimes I do. Half the time I'm trying to convince myself this will work out for the best, and that I'll be ok. Some conversations with friends, I'll try to convince them I'm doing better than I am. I think I'm really just trying to convince myself. Say you'll be ok enough times, and you start to believe it.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Merry Christmas, Brick!

1) Take all he crap and put it on her dad's porch. That will help stop thinking that some material goods might some how start a conversation between you that will lead to R. It ain't gonna happen. Kill off that fantasy.

2) You won't tell us how you learnt about her EA. Why? Did you steal US mail? We don't know you IRL. Concealing the info from us only has one purpose: you don't want posters to tell you what is going on. Why? To preserve the R fantasy.

3) EA or PA
No married man and LTR woman exchange all those words without talking about how great the other is. Your ex has has told him all kinds of negative stuff about you to match his complaints about his b!tch. He told your ex that his wife once had her period and left her crimson panties in the bathroom sink soaking in cold water. He shaved and left all the whiskers in shaving cream floating on top like scum. They had a fight over it. He forgot to pay a bill. She went ape shxt. 

You left the tooth paste cap off. You threw away an envelope with dscount coupons. You were needy.

Tally all the calls and texts they have made each other and give that info to OMW. Ask when she thinks they started banging. She may even have an approximate date on the tip of her tongue.

3) You ex – has she been kidnapped by aliens an replaced by a clone that does not love you? She was bored in your relationship. OM chased her or she chased him and once she was unfaithful in heart and mind, she became a different person. She has dragged out the split up to avoid getting the cheater stamp

She succeeded.

4) In your next relationship you may do better.

5) Your ex is f'ing up her life by getting involved with a married man.

6) You quit smoking and started swimming
Awesome. Smoking is very bad for the small blood vessels that power your junk. If you want to avoid ED, you made a good move. Run, run, run. You will meet hot chicks at races


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Merry Christmas, Brick!
> 
> 1) Take all he crap and put it on her dad's porch. That will help stop thinking that some material goods might some how start a conversation between you that will lead to R. It ain't gonna happen. Kill off that fantasy.
> 
> ...


1) Was going to already, couldn't get her bike in my car. Either way, she's picking her stuff up today, and I won't be here to see her.

2) Wasn't to preserve the R fantasy. Went facebook snooping. Kind of surprised I didn't do it earlier. The conversation I found between her & a friend was enough to finally convince me, but found nothing direct between them. I just felt like a dirtbag for doing it.

3) EA or PA, who knows. Looks like at least EA. Regardless of how far it went, inappropriate is an understatement. I'm trying to just be glad she's gone, but this is a hard thing to try & get past.

4) I hope so. I want to get back out there, but the idea of ending up in a similar situation scares me. 

5) Without a doubt. And I'm fighting with the codependent side of me that wants to stop her from doing it. I know I can't, but the urge is there.

6) Swimming was great, I can't wait to go back. I miss running, but will get by with weight lifting & the occasional hike until the weather gets better. Smoking...I've had some setbacks. Was doing great but I let the stress get to me & gave in. Back to weening myself off with an e-cig again. It definitely goes against getting active, and it's not going to make me more attractive to other women, so I need to do better on this.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Haven't been here in a while. I had decided to step back for a while and not fixate on my problems as much. Try to get used to living my life again. Thankfully I have some good friends I've been able to lean on through this. Anyway, I'm finding myself gradually doing better as time goes by.

Had broken NC after Christmas. Texted back & forth for a few days. Went badly as before. Me telling her what I wanted & how I felt, and getting nothing of any real substance in return.

Haven't broken NC since. It's been over a month now, & I feel I'm doing better for it. Every couple weeks I'll get the urge to reach out to her again, but now it's different. It doesn't feel like that codependant need I used to feel. More that I miss her, and wish we could have worked things out. Now when I get that urge to text her, I think about the last time I did & how I got nothing out of it. And how I've said everything I could, and that there really isn't any magic thing I can say to get through to her. She's made her choice, and I have to keep working on moving on.

I've been having more good days than bad anymore, and they're not to the extremes they used to be. Finally been leveling out, getting my head together, and learning to deal with my emotions better.

Been starting to think about putting myself out there & dating again, but I'm not really ready. My ex has been gone for several months, but I didn't really give up until a month ago. I still need to spend more time on my own, and keep working on getting my life together.

Had a hard day today, and thought it might help to come back here. Finally brought myself to getting her old stuff off the computer, and sorting away some old pictures. Brought up a lot of memories, and got me thinking about how much I miss her. Or at least miss who she was before this. 

Sometimes I wonder if she ever was who I thought she was. Whether she ever was that woman I loved & thought I'd spend my life with, or if that was just a mask worn by who she is today. But I try not to put too much thought into it as it doesn't really do me any good. I think she was that woman and changed at some point.

I never did get the closure I needed, and am accepting that I never will. I wish I had a better understanding of when things changed, when she changed, and why. Looking back now, she never had the decency to really talk to me about things after she left. 1 awkward meet at a coffee shop, no phone conversations, and some texting with no real substance from her. From her actions, all I can tell is that she doesn't care about me & wants me out of her life. It feels like she just wants to run away from the whole situation. And I can't fight with that anymore. Her life, her choice, her decisions. 

Anyway, that's where I find myself lately. Not happy about how things turned out with my ex, but I'm learning to move on, and feeling better about myself. I do still miss her, but really have a pretty wide mix of emotions toward her anymore. 

A lot of folks have told me it takes time, and I see what they mean.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Haven't been around in a while, but I'm hoping I can get some advice. 

Been doing pretty well up until this weekend. Trying to keep focused on me, and learning to live life by my own standards and not hers. Just learning to be single again. Ended up hearing from the ex on Sun. Had no contact until then since late Dec. Texted me using using my (formerly our) pet as an excuse to see how we're doing. Let it sit for a while, then decided to respond & see what she wanted. Ended up just having a basic conversation, nothing serious.

It's been bothering me a lot since. I felt like I was making good progress until then. I'd let go of the R fantasies, and been mostly looking forward. Now I'm back to thinking about her. A lot. Trying to figure out what she wants, why she hit me up out of nowhere. It's a step backwards, and it's reopened a lot of wounds.

My gut reaction is to try & deal with it head on. Ask her flat out whether she actually wants to talk about us. If she does, fine, we can talk & see where that goes. If not, make it clear I'm not ok with hearing from her on a casual basis. But if I've learned anything, it's that my instincts are broken when it comes to her. Every time I tried to be direct, open up, reach out...it went badly for me. Going NC at the end of the year was against every instinct I had at the time, but turned out to be the best decision I could have made.

Seems my alternative is to just let it go and deal with it if it happens again. Was my original plan with this, but I'm finding it hard to let it go.

Really torn on what to do from here. Initiating any contact with her feels like a bad idea, but so does doing nothing.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Haven't been around in a while, but I'm hoping I can get some advice.
> 
> Been doing pretty well up until this weekend. Trying to keep focused on me, and learning to live life by my own standards and not hers. Just learning to be single again. Ended up hearing from the ex on Sun. Had no contact until then since late Dec. Texted me using using my (formerly our) pet as an excuse to see how we're doing. Let it sit for a while, then decided to respond & see what she wanted. Ended up just having a basic conversation, nothing serious.
> 
> ...


I suggest doing nothing. You are a man with options now. That's VERY attractive. The head on thing is a bad idea in my opinion. That's old Hitbyabrick stuff. Don't let that guy back into the equation. She walked out on him and easily controlled him. New hit is someone she doesn't know.....and you're intriguing.

Keep moving forward. Keep improving yourself. If she pursues it again, be cool but absolutely do not drop what you are doing. The worse position you can be in is a "just be friends" scenario with her. There's really no such thing. 

My thoughts....


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

hitbyabrick said:


> Texted me using using my (formerly our) pet as an excuse to see how we're doing. Let it sit for a while, then decided to respond & see what she wanted. Ended up just having a basic conversation, nothing serious.


My STBXW did this exact thing - contacted me about what was formerly our dog's vaccination records. This came exactly a week after I completely ignored her "Hey how are you?" general message. I responded with one sentence to the message about the dog, I literally said "I don't have them anymore." and that was it. I didn't leave any window of opportunity for conversation.

helolover is right, stick to the plan brick  - I was discussing in IC yesterday how upon reflection, I now feel as though I've been set free from a bad relationship, and I'm grateful for everything that happened, even though it was painful. Embrace your new life and make the most of it - it's truly amazing.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks. It's tough when your instincts are broken when it comes to 1 person, and you know it. I know I don't want to let her put me through what she did again, or "just be friends". At the same time, I don't want to just ignore her either. It brings up a lot of conflicting emotions, and I'm seeing it's a lot easier to live my new life when there was a month or 2 of NC.

Deleted her texts, and going to let this go. I'll probably end up hearing from her again, but going to try to not worry about it until I need to.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Feeling a bit frustrated today & need to vent.

I've kept NC with the ex since my last post, and been doing well with that until today. Not even sure why it hit me again today, but it did.

It's crazy the kind of hold someone can have over you. After everything I've been through, part of me still wants to try and R. I know I need to keep up NC, and that if she wants to talk she can say so. And she hasn't, which should speak for itself. But when my instinct is to try to talk to her, not doing so makes me feel like I'm playing a sick game of who goes 1st.

On a good day, I feel like I'm over her & ready to move on. Then I have a day like today and realize I'm not over her. Finding it confusing & frustrating. I know I've been doing better overall, even had a friend who I hadn't seen in a few months tell me how much happier I seem. Maybe I'm just expecting to get over this faster then I really can.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Feeling a bit frustrated today & need to vent.
> 
> I've kept NC with the ex since my last post, and been doing well with that until today. Not even sure why it hit me again today, but it did.
> 
> ...


Brick,

Have you ever watched "Good Will Hunting" with Robin Williams and Matt Damon?


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Brick,
> 
> Have you ever watched "Good Will Hunting" with Robin Williams and Matt Damon?


Haven't seen it


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Haven't seen it


Rent it tonight.

Pay particular attention to Robin Williams' counseling sessions with Matt Damon.

It's as pure a power struggle as you'll witness on TV.

Let's talk about it tomorrow.

Your resolve will be renewed - promise.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She has gone. All of the contacts she has made were just to double check that you still existed in case she needed you for something. What exactly she didn't know. She doesn't desire you as a mate.

Perhaps our ancestors in pre-history were programmed by their genes to maintain cusory contact with ex mates, just in case. The world was a hard place and it was nice to know that they could slip into warm cave and share the roast meet.

You would find it awkward to eat with her now, I suspect. You are off the menu.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Rent it tonight.
> 
> Pay particular attention to Robin Williams' counseling sessions with Matt Damon.
> 
> ...


Turned out to be a good movie, surprised I hadn't seen it.

Counseling sessions seemed to be a power struggle that didn't turn until Matt Damon's character finally talked.

Maybe the take-away is that both parties have to be willing to really talk to get anywhere?


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Good Luck, Mate. I'm going through the same crap as you....I know how you feel


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Turned out to be a good movie, surprised I hadn't seen it.
> 
> Counseling sessions seemed to be a power struggle that didn't turn until Matt Damon's character finally talked.
> 
> Maybe the take-away is that both parties have to be willing to really talk to get anywhere?


The take away is that Matt Damon was disordered due to his childhood. Any overture by Robin Williams would be interpreted in Damon's brain as "weakness" and being unable to handle the power struggle - that Damon initiated. He then would have crapped on Williams as he did with the other therapists. It puts him in control.

Hence, Robin Williams says to Jerry, "I can't talk first"

Brick, right now, the one with more emotional strength is the one who does not talk first.

Make certain it's you.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Feeling a bit frustrated today & need to vent.
> 
> I've kept NC with the ex since my last post, and been doing well with that until today. Not even sure why it hit me again today, but it did.
> 
> ...


Brick, progression in this situation isn't going to be linear. We all expect, when it starts, each day will get a little bit better and a little bit better, until one day, *POOF* we're completely better ant totally over it, and we're all healed and stuff.

But that's not what it's like. It's more like, OK, I think I'm doing good, but then there's this trigger (I hear her favorite song on the radio! or whatever) that creates a spiral into depression, then you sleep on it and everything seems to be even keel; the next day, a cute girl flirts with you and asks you out, so you're riding on cloud nine, but then that song comes on again, and you think, Oh no! but you know how to handle it now, because you dealt with it before, but it still takes you down to about cloud six or seven; then a co-worker, who doesn't know about your split, asks What was that resort in Cancun you and your wife liked so much, and you hadn't thought about that in MONTHS, and so the death spiral begins again.

Repeat, ad nausea.










Until, eventually, you get to a point where you think, hey, this is my life now, and I'm actually happy! And those triggers don't have the same effect they used to, and your once-happy memories are now just that again: happy memories from a different lifetime.

It can take a really long time, but you can get there.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> The take away is that Matt Damon was disordered due to his childhood. Any overture by Robin Williams would be interpreted in Damon's brain as "weakness" and being unable to handle the power struggle - that Damon initiated. He then would have crapped on Williams as he did with the other therapists. It puts him in control.
> 
> Hence, Robin Williams says to Jerry, "I can't talk first"
> 
> ...


Thanks, I think I get what you're saying. Every time I tried talking to her last year it put her in control. And I got pretty well crapped on for it. Guess I'm just looking for more of the same if I try talking first again. If/when she trys to chat/text again, it leaves the conversation a bit more in my hands.

I know she's an adult, and if she wanted to start talking, she would. And she hasn't, which should tell me everything I need to know.

Still feels like a game of who goes 1st, and I don't want to play. Maybe my problem is wanting to apply logical thinking to an emotional situation.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Thanks, I think I get what you're saying. Every time I tried talking to her last year it put her in control. And I got pretty well crapped on for it. Guess I'm just looking for more of the same if I try talking first again. If/when she trys to chat/text again, it leaves the conversation a bit more in my hands.
> 
> I know she's an adult, and if she wanted to start talking, she would. And she hasn't, which should tell me everything I need to know.
> 
> Still feels like a game of who goes 1st, and I don't want to play. Maybe my problem is wanting to apply logical thinking to an emotional situation.


You want to talk to her as if she's a man.

Counterproductive


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

duplicate post


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Brick, progression in this situation isn't going to be linear. We all expect, when it starts, each day will get a little bit better and a little bit better, until one day, *POOF* we're completely better ant totally over it, and we're all healed and stuff.
> 
> But that's not what it's like. It's more like, OK, I think I'm doing good, but then there's this trigger (I hear her favorite song on the radio! or whatever) that creates a spiral into depression, then you sleep on it and everything seems to be even keel; the next day, a cute girl flirts with you and asks you out, so you're riding on cloud nine, but then that song comes on again, and you think, Oh no! but you know how to handle it now, because you dealt with it before, but it still takes you down to about cloud six or seven; then a co-worker, who doesn't know about your split, asks What was that resort in Cancun you and your wife liked so much, and you hadn't thought about that in MONTHS, and so the death spiral begins again.
> 
> ...


I think you're spot on about my expecting progression to be linear. It sure hasn't been so far, lot of ups & downs. And plenty of backslides. It's is easier to deal with now compared to a few months ago at least.

A friend of mine keeps telling me I'm expecting too much out of myself, that this is going to take a long time. And honestly, I just want to skip ahead to either the point that she decides she wants to talk (not realistic, I know), or where I've fully moved on. Just get this in between point over with.

Guess I can see where I want to be, to a point, just still figuring out how to get there.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You want to talk to her as if she's a man.
> 
> Counterproductive


I guess I do.

Experience so far has told me you're right, it doesn't work.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> I think you're spot on about my expecting progression to be linear. It sure hasn't been so far, lot of ups & downs. And plenty of backslides. It's is easier to deal with now compared to a few months ago at least.
> 
> A friend of mine keeps telling me I'm expecting too much out of myself, that this is going to take a long time. And honestly, I just want to skip ahead to either the point that she decides she wants to talk (not realistic, I know), or where I've fully moved on. Just get this in between point over with.
> 
> Guess I can see where I want to be, to a point, just still figuring out how to get there.


Your desire to move ahead quickly makes sense. I mean, going through a divorce is a quagmire of suck, and all you really want is to get out it because it's super painful and hard. But if you try to rush it, you won't learn and grow.

Embrace the suck, and learn the lessons that life is trying to teach you  So the next time around you can have a healthy relationship.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Be strong, our house is on the market after 2 months!!

I can't find any answers


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> I guess I do.
> 
> Experience so far has told me you're right, it doesn't work.


It never will.

Learn emotional communication.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I broke down last night & called her. No texting, just called her. I pretty well expected it would go badly, but did it anyway. Didn't go like I thought. Feeling confused.

Talked for nearly an hour. A lot of it was us catching up, talking like we used to. Talking about what we've been doing, friends, family, living situations. Later in the conversation I asked her if she wanted to do anything about how things went. She asked me whether I was talking about being friends, getting back together, or finding closure. Told her I wanted to see whether there was enough left between us where we could work on getting back together.

She said she's getting to a point where she can start talking about things. She told me she doesn't want to commit to dating or getting romantically involved, that she's trying to take her life one day at a time. My response was that I don't want to jump straight into R, her coming home, or dating. That I want to see if we actually can work on things at all. But I was clear I'm not interested in just being friends.

She said she thinks we need to work on being friends first before anything else. That it was something we lacked in our relationship. And she said she wants to keep working on our communication, wants to keep talking, eventually meet up. 

At the end of the conversation, I said I guess we'll figure out where we go from here. She said we'll talk sooner than later.

1st time since she left that I've felt we had an honest discussion. Talked about some of the things that went wrong in our relationship, and some of the things we did that were unfair to each other. Talked about the anxiety & awkwardness we both felt talking to each other again. At one point when I told her she sounds happy, she said not to think there aren't nights she cries herself to sleep. 

Right now I'm feeling really confused. Part of me wants her back, part of me wants to stay away from her to keep from getting hurt again. Not sure whether I screwed up talking 1st, and this soon. But it seems I've opened the door to communication.

I'm not clear on what I want right now, or where this might go. And I'm still trying to process this. But I do want to see where this goes. I've still got some hard questions about how/why she left, but I think if I push too hard right now she'll clam up again.

Only thing I'm sure of is that it's her move now. She said she wants to work on our communication & keep talking. Need to see if she means it. If she does, she'll initiate.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> I broke down last night & called her. No texting, just called her. I pretty well expected it would go badly, but did it anyway. Didn't go like I thought. Feeling confused.


What's to be confused about? She sees you as Plan B. And, now, you apparently do also.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> a quagmire of suck


 Great phrase.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> What's to be confused about? She sees you as Plan B. And, now, you apparently do also.


Well that lumberyard just flashed me back to december...

Hadn't occurred to me that I may have just walked myself into plan B territory. Got fixated on having had a conversation she didn't run away from, and that she wants to keep talking. Maybe I got blinded by what I wanted to see.

Realizing now that while I did open the door to communication, she's setting the terms.

Not sure what to do with this now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Well that lumberyard just flashed me back to december...
> 
> Hadn't occurred to me that I may have just walked myself into plan B territory. Got fixated on having had a conversation she didn't run away from, and that she wants to keep talking. Maybe I got blinded by what I wanted to see.
> 
> ...


Stop


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Stop


Stop what exactly?

Stop being plan B & tell her I'm not ok with that? Stop contact altogether? 

Maybe I need to stop dwelling on this & deal with it as it comes.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

hitbyabrick said:


> Stop what exactly?
> 
> Stop being plan B & tell her I'm not ok with that? Stop contact altogether?
> 
> Maybe I need to stop dwelling on this & deal with it as it comes.


Stop initiating anything.

If she wants to reconcile, it simply must be her idea.

I do not know of any cases where the reconciliation has been the betrayed spouse's idea.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Arendt said:


> Great phrase.


Thanks


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Stop initiating anything.
> 
> If she wants to reconcile, it simply must be her idea.
> 
> I do not know of any cases where the reconciliation has been the betrayed spouse's idea.


Conrad's right. At this point, there is NOTHING you could say to her or do that could result in a reconciliation. It doesn't matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you do.

Even worse, you reaching out and initiating contact is not only counter-productive, it also makes you feel like sh!t. Don't do that! Don't do things that make you feel like sh!t. So don't call her.

Dude, seriously, have some self-respect and self-love. I know where you are. You think if you can just get her to see the error of her ways and come back to you, it will give you back your self-respect and self-love. But it won't, and trying to get her back only makes you feel worse.

Do things that help grow your self-respect and self-love. Things you enjoy, and activities that help you grow your skills, etc. That's how you get your mojo back, and that's the only chance you have of getting her back.

But once you get your mojo back, you might realize that you deserve better than she's capable of giving you


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Conrad's right. At this point, there is NOTHING you could say to her or do that could result in a reconciliation. It doesn't matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you do.
> 
> Even worse, you reaching out and initiating contact is not only counter-productive, it also makes you feel like sh!t. Don't do that! Don't do things that make you feel like sh!t. So don't call her.
> 
> ...



Needed to take some time and process everything. At first, calling her seemed like it may have turned out to be a good idea. Now I'm thinking what I really got out of it was an emotional roller-coaster the last week.

Conrad / FeministInPink, you've both told me repeatedly that I need to stop initiating. I think that's finally sinking in. I can't make her want to R. Can't make someone love you. Been asking myself if I can can keep putting myself through this, and I don't think I can. I need to be better at accepting my situation & getting ok with it.

Not sure whether she's going to follow up on our conversation & contact me. Not sure what I'll do with that if she does, or what that's going to do to me. I think all I can do at this point is proceed as if I'm not going to hear from her, which is entirely possible.

Have to say thinking about this & trying to accept it has left me feeling pretty lonely tonight.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

HBB, How are you doing? I've not posted, but have read your thread. Hope does not die easily.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

bigfoot said:


> HBB, How are you doing? I've not posted, but have read your thread. Hope does not die easily.


Doing better for the most part. Been trying to keep focused on the rest of my life. Weather's getting better, which helps. Getting back into running again, something I missed over the winter. Cut back pretty hard on smoking, kind of a necessity with swimming & running. Looking to get into biking as well (never learned when I was a kid), have several friends that are into it.

As for things with the ex, it's still a confusing situation. It's sunk in that my initiating communication with her probably wasn't the way to go. Don't think she knows what she wants, which makes communication seem pretty pointless. Overall, I'm just burned out on trying with her, and finally get that I can't make her want R. Not even sure if I do anymore. We chatted a bit over text last week, and it didn't really phase me, felt kind of numb to it. I've put myself in an awkward spot where I either need to ride it out & see what happens, or tell her not to contact me. Right now I'm just riding it out with no expectations.

I've had several friends suggest I start dating while I take a wait & see approach with her. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't have it's appeals. I do miss having someone to spend time with, do things with. I miss the intimacy you have in a relationship. Doesn't feel right though, and I don't think it's something I really want right now. Think I'm better off staying focused on myself.

Started reading "Rebuilding - When Your Relationship Ends" last night. Saw it mentioned on here, and it seems to get some pretty positive reviews. I'm trying to figure out where to go from here, so maybe it'll help.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

HBB, it sounds like you're making some progress!

I would advise against dating right now. It's appealing because it's a distraction; it's a way to avoid doing the hard work of processing and learning from the failed relationship. But I think you know that. 

You have the rest of your life to date and be in relationships. take some time and focus on yourself, rather than focusing on someone else. Learn how to make yourself happy first


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> HBB, it sounds like you're making some progress!
> 
> I would advise against dating right now. It's appealing because it's a distraction; it's a way to avoid doing the hard work of processing and learning from the failed relationship. But I think you know that.
> 
> You have the rest of your life to date and be in relationships. take some time and focus on yourself, rather than focusing on someone else. Learn how to make yourself happy first


Thanks, I keep trying to remind myself that I don't need to be in a hurry. And honestly, the idea of dating brings up a lot of anxiety for me. I was 18 or 19 when I started dating my ex, and still lived at home. Having never dated as an adult, I feel pretty clueless about it. And with me still trying to get over this, plenty of reasons for me to not be in a hurry.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Having a bit of a down morning. Thinking about the ex, and everything that's happened over the last 6 months. And feeling a bit like a fool for being stuck on the hope of R this long.

Looking back. She told me she was leaving on Oct, and it came out of nowhere. I did everything I could to R. She wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't hear me out on counseling, and put me through an emotional roller coaster while she took her time over the next month leaving. We had what felt like a real conversation the day she left, and agreed to talk in a month. Where'd that get me? Hanging on to hope of R, so she could later agree to meet, then walk out on me when I wanted to talk. Every time since I tried communicating with her, it went poorly. And again last month, I called her. Her telling me she wants to work on communication. What happens? Here I am, a month later, and how has she shown she wants to work on our communication? 1 text conversation.

I'm left asking myself "What am I doing?".

She pretty much faked the relationship being ok for who knows how long, up until she told me she was leaving. She put me through an emotional roller coaster before she left. What kind of person tells their SO they're leaving them, then thinks it's cool to sleep next to them naked the same night? She was still here on Halloween, and when friends/family dropped by, she had no problem pretending everything was ok. Every time she's agreed to talk about us, she was either stringing me along, or lying. And while I have no concrete proof, it seems the odds are good there was someone else.

I'm asking myself why do I want this person back in my life? She's not who I thought she was.

I don't have any illusions about our relationship being perfect before. We had major problems that weren't being addressed. I still think we might have worked through them with counselling & effort, but that takes 2. She wasn't willing.

The last 6 months I held onto the hope of R with her. That something might change. And I've got nothing to show for it. What I do have is some positive changes in my life. Some new hobbies, new experiences, and a better understanding of myself.

I'm sad our relationship is over. I don't think it had to go this way, but it is. Been giving this a lot of thought, and I think it's past time I give up on R. Right now, I don't even want to hear from her.

I just want to work on moving on now. Sorry for the long post, but I had to get this out.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Been kind of a rough week so far. Still accepting that there's no point in hoping things will change with the ex, and trying to process it. Thinking about it has re-opened a lot of wounds, and I'm trying to work through it as best I can. I've hit some pretty angry & sad points, & let myself slip with smoking & exercise. Feels more like a temporary thing though, so something to work on next week I guess.

Didn't expect to be going through this kind of emotional turmoil again. But I find myself re-evaluating a lot that's happened, and I feel like I'm seeing things from a different perspective. Maybe just more clearly, or just less biased.

Still find myself thinking about dating again. I think some of that is driven by being lonely & adapting to single life, but part of it is genuinely wanting to meet some new people, have some fun, & see what it's like. And as much as I hate to sound shallow, I've had zero intimacy with a woman for about 8 months, and am starting to have a hard time dealing with that. Not the driving factor, but it's pushing me in that direction.

I know I still need some time. I don't think dating would work out that well while I'm taking another ride on the roller coaster. Right now I'm telling myself to hold off for a week or 2 while I try & get my head together. Then see how I'm doing.

Basically conflicted I guess. Would appreciate any advice on this. Not sure how other people deal with wanting to date, but not feeling ready either.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Figured this could use an update, and I think I could use some advice.

Been working on moving on with my life. Changed up the spare room I've been avoiding the last 6 months. Got rid of her old wardrobe, painted, picked up some furniture. Felt good.

Got a call from the ex on Sat. Was sitting on the porch relaxing after working on the spare room, having a particularly happy & peaceful moment. Timing 

Anyway, she said she wanted to complain/vent about our mutual friend's girlfriend. Chatted a bit, wanted to know what I was up to, tell me what she's been up to, etc. Started asking me about what I was doing with the spare room. Apparently she was hanging out with my friend & his girlfriend that day and he mentioned it. I get the feeling that's what triggered her to call.

Kept my cool through the conversation. Didn't try to talk about us. None of my usual trying to get her back stuff. I just wanted off the phone. Still, this conversation messed with my head for a couple hours. Thankfully I had a party to go to that night, and otherwise had a really good weekend.

My problem now is what to do about contact with her. A couple months back I called her trying to open up communication with her, basically a last attempt. Then pretty recently I gave up after getting nothing out of her but 1 text conversation. Really wasn't expecting to hear from her again. Should have known better.

Been trying to sort out how I feel about this the last couple days. A couple months ago this would have me thinking I had a shot at R. Not feeling so blind now. Odds are this was either her being curious, and/or her trying to just be friends. I'm not ok with either.

Part of me wants to push the issue, call her, and tell her if that's the direction us talking is going, then she shouldn't call me. But I don't want to initiate contact either. That's something the old desperate me kept doing, and I'm trying to work on being healthier & happier. Still, it's hard to completely switch from wanting R and trying to open up communication for so long, to being ready to tell that person that since she chose to remove herself from my life, it's an all or nothing situation.

So basically I'm feeling conflicted about what to do now. I'm not interested in calling her and trying to get into a serious discussion, don't want to make that mistake again. Just not sure what to do when I hear from her next.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Dont call her or try to contact her. Let it go.

If she wants to work at things she will be direct about it with you, otherwise that was just her being curious. She's human so this is hard for her too. 

Contacting her and telling her this and that about what you need is just nnot worth it. Will suck you back in unnecessarily. You still care obviously and need your space.

If she calls again, don't answer. Let her leave a message.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Arendt said:


> Dont call her or try to contact her. Let it go.
> 
> If she wants to work at things she will be direct about it with you, otherwise that was just her being curious. She's human so this is hard for her too.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

If she wants to be friends, and you don't want to, JUST DON'T. You're not obligated to respond of listen to her. If she calls, she can leave a message, and you can decide if it actually warrants a response (it most likely won't).

Don't put yourself through that hell again.


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

There is a very powerful word you need to learn to use on yourself:

NO


No, I do not want the anguish, anxiety and self loathing that comes from contact with her.

No, I will not engage her or allow her to manipulate me by calling out of the blue about a spare room or anything else. It is her way of keeping me on an emotional hook.

No, I do NOT want to be friends with her. It was always more than that and I deserve better.

No, it is not worth my self esteem and loss of manhood to keep pining for a woman that is gone.

Or, you can keep feeling the way you do now. Life is a choice. She chose different than you. You can choose to be stuck in the past or moving towards the future.

Get some books, maybe No More Mr. Nice Guy, or Codependent No More, and read them. 

Dwelling on her, the past, and what might have been does nothing but anchor you to her. If she decides she wants to try again, that is HER choice. Right now your best option is letting go and moving on.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Arendt, feministinpink : You're right, I have no obligation to respond to her unless I actually want to. Sat's call certainly wasn't needed, and didn't do me any good. Letting it go to voicemail next time. Not going to call her either. More I think about that, the less I want to.

Movealong : I like the list of NO's, they're spot on. I've read a lot about Codependency & boundaries, but still haven't set any when it comes to her. Time to change that. I do deserve better than to be kept on the hook waiting for something to change. I want my life to be better than that.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Been having a good couple weeks. Going out, trying a few new things, feeling pretty good about life in general. Nice change of pace.

Got this feeling last night that something is wrong though, and couldn't put my finger on it. Been thinking about it since. Might just be me trying to get used to my new single life. But I think it's because I still miss my ex. Don't think anything particular triggered this, just kind of popped up.

I still think there was more good than bad in the relationship. We both made some bad choices. I think her decision to leave was wrong for both of us, but that's the hand life's dealt me & I've got to keep moving on.

Just trying to deal with it & needed to vent. 

Will say this though, I've realized I needed something to trigger some change & personal growth in my life. Just wish this wasn't the cause.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

It's been a while, an update here is past due.

Ended up talking with the ex again on & off. Met up at an arboretum earlier in the month. Didn't really specify if it was a date, as friends or what. Tried to just see how it would go. She said she didn't want to get back together, but some other things she said gave me mixed messages. Called her the next day to clarify what she said, and basically she wants to work through our issues to be friends, that's it.

Have to say I found it pretty insulting. She's told me before she thinks our relationship lacked things like good communication, and that we needed to be better friends/partners. That she would now want to work on the things she found lacking in the relationship, but not work on the relationship, just adds insult to injury.

At the end of that call she said we'd talk after she got back in town. I told her we'll see, and that I've got a lot to think about.

I have thought a lot about it. Most of the time when we've talked, she wants to complain about family issues, mutual friends, etc. She's told me a few times that I'm the only one she can talk to about these things, that I'm the only one who gets it. I think she wants to keep me around as a friend of convenience. Looking for the kind of support she'd get from me when we were together.

I've pretty well decided that she's treated me poorly since this started, and she's continuing to do so. And I'm not having any of it. I'm trying to make my life better, and she's bringing me down. I regret not staying NC months ago, I'd be in a better place than I am now.

So after not hearing from her for several weeks (quite happily), I get a text today. She accidentally shipped a package to the house and wants to make arrangements to pick it up. Figures.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Leave it on the doorstep. At the neighbor's house.

:smthumbup:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> I've pretty well decided that she's treated me poorly since this started, and she's continuing to do so. And I'm not having any of it. I'm trying to make my life better, and she's bringing me down. *I regret not staying NC months ago, I'd be in a better place than I am now.*
> 
> So after not hearing from her for several weeks (quite happily), I get a text today. She accidentally shipped a package to the house and wants to make arrangements to pick it up. Figures.


Now you know. Remember this, moving forward, and stick to your guns.

Regarding the package, I would return to sender. I wouldn't even entertain her picking it up, or bother with involving the neighbor. Tell her you refused the package because she doesn't live at your address anymore.

But that's me. I stopped forwarding my XH's mail months ago, I just write return to sender on everything and put it back in the mail.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Just remember:


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Time for another update. I did end up seeing my ex to hand off her package. Just met at a coffee shop near a shop I needed to go to so I wasn't wasting the drive. Didn't try talking about the relationship at all. Found the whole thing uncomfortable, and was just glad when it was over. Don't really want any further contact with her, so I need to stop responding.

On a more upbeat note, met a women at a small party the other night. Close friend of a couple I'm friends with. We pretty much clicked early on. Party went past daybreak, with the 2 of us being the last ones up, and things did get fairly physical. Few of us hung out that afternoon too. Anyway, had a great time, & there seems to be a lot of mutual interest. Got her number, & looking forward to seeing her again.

It's been a long time since I've dated. Just going to try & keep an open mind & see how it goes.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Had a date last night with the woman I met over the weekend. Went really well 

This woman is like breath of fresh air after the ex. Guess being single again is a lot better than I thought.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Had a date last night with the woman I met over the weekend. Went really well
> 
> This woman is like breath of fresh air after the ex. Guess being single again is a lot better than I thought.


Seeing that there ARE other people out there who are interested in you, and who could be a good fit, is a big help in the healing process. I've had men express an interest in me since my XH and I split, and while I didn't reciprocate, it was a really good feeling, knowing there are other options out there.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Been re-reading some of my earlier posts. Happy to say I feel like I've changed a lot since this started. Reading those earlier posts, it's obvious I was desperate, lost, trying to grasp for what I lost regardless of the cost to myself, and what that was doing to me. All for someone that proved they weren't worth it. Really wish I'd have listened to the advice I got here from the start.

Haven't been here much lately. Kind of got lost in a "rebound" relationship for about 5 months. Spotted a lot of red flags, but made the mistake of ignoring them for too long. Also caught myself falling into some old bad habits, not dealing with issues, and eventually realized I had stopped working on myself. Ended it when I realized the relationship was not headed in a good direction.

In some ways I let my own self-progress be held back, but I feel it was a good experience overall. Got past some of the apprehension of dating again, and a better idea of what I want and should watch for.

Still working through a lot though. Trying to get myself back on track. On the positive side, I'm past wanting anything to do with my ex.

Lately I've been trying to deal with a lot of angry & resentful feelings towards my ex, and some loneliness. I've learned to appreciate a lot of things about living by myself, but sometimes the loneliness sets in. Also trying to get back into the healthier routines I was in - exercise, cooking, trying new things, etc.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You should catch up with WantWifeBack's thread.

She wanted to R but he wanted nothing to do with her.

Are you still swimming?

If you quit smoking as result of ex leaving, something positive came out of it.

As far as new relationships go, it takes self respect to not hook up with someone who is broken. You don't need a pity party with someone who is looking to be fixed.

That said people are imperfect. But dishonesty is a deal killer.

I always thought you should have informed OM's wife. Not to say that you knew they were having an affair but to let her know that your wife was sniffing round. That would have created bad blood, but today you can see that your ex kept you hanging without any regard for your well being.

Happy 2015


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

I remember seeing that in WWB's thread a while back, but have gotten caught up on the rest. Happy for him that he was able to tell her no & keep moving on with his life. In a way though, I'm glad I haven't found myself in that position.

For the swimming, I eventually stopped taking classes. Kind of hit a wall where I stopped seeing improvements. Have been out to a local pool a few times since though. Also, picked up a nice bicycle I've been learning on (yep, I was the weird kid that couldn't swim or ride a bike). Looking forward to some warmer weather.

Unfortunately still smoking. Was down to a couple a day, but went back up a month or 2 ago. Working on that again now.

Funny that you mention "someone who is looking to be fixed". Pretty accurate description of the woman I was seeing. She had some good qualities, but also had a lot of issues, and was doing nothing to improve her situation. Seemed like she was waiting for the right guy to come along a fix everything for her. Not a healthy outlook, and not something I found attractive in the end.

About whether I should have informed OM's wife, you're probably right. At the time, I just couldn't handle it. I was struggling to get through most days, and was having a hard time accepting that there could have been a OM. Now, I can look back, see there was some shady behavior, and accept that the woman I was in love with was not in fact who I thought she was. Still hurts, but I can accept it. Going forward, I'm trying to put it behind me, and hope I never find myself in that situation again.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I quit smoking. You can, too. Run, play basketball, whatever. Every cig chokes tissues and causes damage.


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Been trying to work through some anger & resentment towards my ex lately, and could use some advice.

I think I finally worked out what's causing it. What she put me through, that's obvious. But I hate what I let myself turn into before she left, and months after. Was basically a shell of myself, like I had no self respect left. Just kept coming back for more. 

I didn't have the outlook I do now. Was never able to call her out for what she was, or what she was doing. And there's no point now, she's out of my life.

My question here, how do you get past this & put it behind you? I know I need to keep trying new things, try to make healthier decisions in my life, etc. And I feel like I'm in a much better place than before. Just having a hard time letting go of that.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Been trying to work through some anger & resentment towards my ex lately, and could use some advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Simple. 

Forgive yourself.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Simple.
> 
> Forgive yourself.



*can't like that enough!!!*
Have to forgive yourself...


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## hitbyabrick (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks Ceegee. Been giving some thought to what you said. It's making sense. 

I made some poor decisions. Trying to tell myself it's ok, just do better next time. Going to take a while to really accept it though.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

hitbyabrick said:


> Thanks Ceegee. Been giving some thought to what you said. It's making sense.
> 
> I made some poor decisions. Trying to tell myself it's ok, just do better next time. Going to take a while to really accept it though.



TAM is full of people who made mistakes. 

Everyone does. 

The important thing is to recognize these mistakes and learn from them. 

That makes you a better person. That's "growth". 

Get out of the victim chair. Replace your self loathing with optimism in knowing that you won't make those mistakes again. You've paid a high price for them.


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