# which plan works the best?



## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

okay, i could have put this in my original thread,

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24004-after-d-day-stuff.html

 and if the mods want to merge this, thats fine, but i figured i start this one new.

i was curious, what is really the best way to go about trying to get the WS back into the marriage and to help them realize theyre making the biggest mistake of their lives.

i guess im getting impatient. or its just getting to hard to deal with on some days...

but im also on the MB site.

ive done the exposure thing,

but now i dont know if a plan A would be most effective? 
a 180?
or are they kinda one in the same.

a plan B?

i cant kick her out, but i think if i gave her a taste of what shes missing might help her out of the fog.

really there just seems to be so much advice and options im having trouble to figure out my next move.


and fwiw, they work together, and ive tried to get her on board with no contact and that hasnt worked. were both in IC, and even her therapist is telling her NC, though she doesnt want/having trouble to end the affair, and shes "not in love with me anymore"

i want to save my marriage. i want to save my fimily. she still refers to me as her best friend, though ive been trying to limit even that part to make it seem like she'll lose me...but living together makes it difficult..

any thoughts on whats effective or not....


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

As she is still in the house run a plan A with most of the 180, the 180 must not compromise the Plan A . It is early days since exposure and a lot will change especially when your wife and the OM start colaborating. In your circumstance a hard 180 will drive her to him, there is nothing wrong in working through the finances,let her see the real world and pay her full share. Keep consistent that your son stays with you and you will fight for full custody if she leaves or separates. Make life with you great make the affair for her and the OM hard work and difficult.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Plan A/Plan B are allegedly for ending the affair and negotiating with the WS to fulfill his/her emotional needs if the chose to put the effort in rebuilding the marriage. The problem is that Plan A is very difficult to implement without it looking like a disingenous attempt by the LS - in the eyes of the DS - to bring him/her back to the marriage. More often than not, it enables cake eating by the DS. By the time a LS is ready to go into Plan B, he/she is so emotionally spent that they often just go to Plan D (divorce). Ironically, it is usually at this time that many DS end their affair and want to return to the LS. If you don't believe me just go to the Marriage Builders forums and read for a few weeks the feeble attempts by LS to implement it.

On the other hand, the 180 degrees protocol is an empowering tool designed to give the LS the strength needed to move on with his/her life with or without his DS. Unlike Plan A/Plan B, the LS stops pursuing the DS and starts GAL (getting a life) which helps in the healing/recovery process of the LS. And even though its purpose is not to bring the DS back, that often does end up happening, as a side-effect of course

Plan A/Plan B require expensive and extensive coaching with an MB advisor, to properly/correctly implement it and even then the results are not guaranteed. On the other hand, the 180 degrees protocol does not require any coaching to properly/correctly implement it.

So the question is, what are you aiming for? reconciliation or divorce?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I've said it before and will say it again...I hate plan a. Especially when there is cheating and the DS won't cut it off...shows no signs of stopping it after being confronted and/or has left their spouse and won't commit to the marriage fully. Plan B is the best IMO. 180s are essential no matter what though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I tried a plan A, because I was a fool thinking my H cut off all contact with the OW, well I found out 4 weeks ago tomorrow that he had been in contact. I am in plan B/180. I have faltered some in the 180, when it comes to the NC, but I am getting better everyday. The 180 does help you emotionally, especially when the spouse continues to act like an idiot lol. For example, I allowed a friendly convo a few days ago, where I was very honest with him, thought maybe, at least we can work on some communication because of the children, and that turned around and kicked me in the butt, as he spoke to the OW about what we spoke about. Yes, yes yes, I don't need my ear chewed at how I effed up, but today is another day  I told him that I will just not speak to him, no small talk, and I will adhere to it this time. Just to make it known, the convo was not about the marriage or the relationship lol.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I've said it before and will say it again...I hate plan a. Especially when there is cheating and the DS won't cut it off...shows no signs of stopping it after being confronted and/or has left their spouse and won't commit to the marriage fully. Plan B is the best IMO. 180s are essential no matter what though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If the DS is continuing the affair despite exposure and your clear distress then you have to ask yourself of you really want to be with this person.
I was in the same position.

You are in limbo and trying to save something that may not be savable.
She has chosen HIM above you.
She does not care how you feel.
She will appear as if she has move on, in language and attitude.
That is because..
Right Now.
SHE HAS. 


If you do the 180 you must be prepared to lose her since it is essentially pushing her away. She MAY come back. 

A warning though.. You may not want her..


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

well ill find out waht a plan b or 180 will do..

the concept of plan a seemed to me like cake eating...you basically have to bestong enough to watch your spouse continue to cheat on you,,,wtf?

it mightnot matter now anyway, as i will update my other thread, 

I. Blew. It.

she cahnged her phone to her own plan but they wouldnt let her get a new phone because she was 11 months left in contract, so she had to keep her blackberry, which is still bugged.

so not a few mins. after getting the financial responsibility transfered, she started texting him..hi handsome, missed you...love you so much...

so when she got home i lost my ****...i told her about the text, essentially giving up everything..said some things i shouldnt have said, which blew plan a right out the water...how i m done and i dont want her in my life anymore...that kinda stuff thats been building up and you say in anger...

i wish i hadnt said some things but its to late now...

so ill probably get to 180 by default...we will probably live together for a bit because she has no place to go...and i cant legally kick her out..

thanks for the advice...as much as i like some of the SAA stuff, it just seems to allow more pain inflicted on the BS, as if ther isnt enough..


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

ing said:


> If the DS is continuing the affair despite exposure and your clear distress then you have to ask yourself of you really want to be with this person.
> I was in the same position.
> 
> You are in limbo and trying to save something that may not be savable.
> ...



so what happened with your sitch ing?


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

The only benefit I see in Plan A is long term. Short term it’s enabling behavior and usually ends up in tears as they end up leaving you because you refuse to stand up for yourself after being disrespected. That’s their impression at the time while the A is still ongoing.

However…

Once they leave and make the A a full on relationship, it tends to fall apart over 90% of the time (the AP can never live up to the fantasy the WS has in the head IRL). They start to think back to the BS and remember that things weren’t so bad and start idealizing the old relationship while the one with the AP starts to fail. Instead of thinking you were a doormat, they start to think you really loved them and they start wanting their old relationship back. Their last impression of the BS is good because of Plan A even though they didn't appreciated it at the time.

By then the BS is dating and so angry/hurt that a R is usually out of the question. It takes months to get to this point, if not a year or so. While the BS emotionally detaches and moves on, at the same time the WS gets second thoughts and considers coming back.

180 is the best bet since it earns their respect much faster and gives them a taste of reality now instead of much later with Plan A. While Plan A almost always fails, it's not always in vain.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ing said:


> If the DS is continuing the affair despite exposure and your clear distress then you have to ask yourself of you really want to be with this person.
> I was in the same position.
> 
> You are in limbo and trying to save something that may not be savable.
> ...



Excellent post. It's useless to chase after someone who is running away from you.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

elph said:


> so what happened with your sitch ing?


I am only 2.5 months in since Dday. Here is sequence of events.
1. Lied to me about having an EA affair for 2 weeks
2. Finally admitted it and promised to stop.
3. I discovered that it had not stopped and confronted her with the evidence.
4. On discovery she left the house [i kicked her out] and turned it in to a PA
* I went into meltdown.

5. I packed her stuff up since she obviously has or had no intention of stopping. She has rented another house and is in an affair with a married man. The separation and 180 empowered me and importantly made me see her as she is now.
6. We are getting a divorce after 25 years together. 

I am feeling in a good place. Thanks to the advice and support of people on this site. This was NOT EASY. 

I miss the person I knew, but she is gone. I look after my children and protect them from her by answering questions truthfully and appropriately to there ages.

She is making noises like she wants to come back but for me it is too late. I gave her a few weeks, which is more than anyone deserves to "take a break from the relationship" 

That was the long version ..

Short version.
I kicked her scanky ass out and have a GF who likes me.

Interestingly new GF said last night. " I know one thing. If I screw around the effects will be immediate and final! LOL" I didn't realize until then how hard line I am. 

The 180 restored my self respect!


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## 52flower (Mar 4, 2011)

Not to minimize this important thread but I have looked everywhere and cannot find information on "Plan A and B". Can someone help direct me to where to find the details so I can understand when they are used in reference? Thanks!


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

I've told both the omw and the OM mom. Mom seemingly did nothing. But I think he lied to her some more. 
Omw or really soon to be ex because he served her in Jan has lotsa info, but she's waiting for her right time to tell him. What ever that means.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

ing said:


> I am only 2.5 months in since Dday. Here is sequence of events.
> 1. Lied to me about having an EA affair for 2 weeks
> 2. Finally admitted it and promised to stop.
> 3. I discovered that it had not stopped and confronted her with the evidence.
> ...



i give you props, you dealt with that fast...

i know im about 2 months out from confronting her about the affair, and 3 and a half since discovering...i took a passive approach, for the first month, learning about it all, hoping i that she would figure stuff out. learning how i messed up in our marriage. going out on dates....i just didnt realize it had been going on for 4 months prior too, where they wer already talking about how in love they are and leaving me, while the OM served his wife papers...to be with mine...

the unfortunate thing is i know my wife is in there somewhere. shes taken such a complete extreme personailty change in such a quick time, i know its all fog(heck her answers are so text book its not even funny)..but nothing i have done has been able to snap her out of it...and everybody is suffering. her mom aunt and most of her family is disgusted at herm they wont talk to her and if she pursues the relationship with him theyll pretty much disown her until. my son is traumatized by seeking attentin because her thoughts for him consume her. hes starting to lash out, alot of his toys that hafa male/female counterparts, he always haves them sit together...little things...

but in her current incarnation, i want nothing to do with her...

im preping legal seperation papers tomorrow, i hope down the line itll lift and she ll realize what shes losing..


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Have a good talk with your lawyer on what is required for you to get full custody, the courts faviour the mother however if he is smart he should give you guidance on what to do especially if it is adversely affecting your son and her relationship with her family. Fight hard now , you get once chance at this, your son comes first and foremost .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

what happens if they find out that shes telling my son to not tell anybody when they meet up outside the house or lie for her...

i basically found out he appeared at a breakfast my wife and son were having..he was told not to say anything about it..i asked my son this morning if mommy told him to say nothing about the OM. he went and hid under some pillows and eventually said yes. i had to assure him he wasnt in trouble...

and hes 3 1/2.

my wife is not an evil person, but this affair has turned her in to someone completely different...it makes me angry and ill use it if i can, but the fat thats its affecting my son and that bastard of an OM is getting away with it angers me more than bruce banner.....


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

elph said:


> the unfortunate thing is i know my wife is in there somewhere. shes taken such a complete extreme personailty change in such a quick time, i know its all fog(heck her answers are so text book its not even funny)..but nothing i have done has been able to snap her out of it...
> 
> but in her current incarnation, i want nothing to do with her...


I am not at all convinced that my wife is there at all. The occasional glimpse maybe but I think they are just a memory. 

The OM is still very much in the picture and I don't think waiting would have helped at all. 

Just ask yourself. Do you ever think you can like this person again. You may love her. But like? That was the dealbreak for me


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

Yeah I think I can. Who she is inherently is what attracted me to her when the affair ends. ( and it seems these things almost never succeed) her behavior will change too. 
Shes losing her family. Mother , aunt , cousins, son. Everybody that means anything. All because of himand the behavior caused by it. When she was involved all those years ago when we broke up with her then abusive boyfriend, it was the same thing. Once he was out of the picture she returned to normal. I made the mistake of not having her enter into therapy and such to deal and learn from that experience. This time will be different, unavoidable. The affair has turned her into a textbook addict. She gets careless, forgetful distracted. She feels guilt but nowhere near remorse. 

But she's in there. And if anything, if we don't survive for some reason, and I won't remain her friend so I cam watch her date other men, but if anything she can repair her relationship with her family. 
So yes I can like her. I can laugh with her. And I can love her too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

elph said:


> what happens if they find out that shes telling my son to not tell anybody when they meet up outside the house or lie for her...
> 
> i basically found out he appeared at a breakfast my wife and son were having..he was told not to say anything about it..i asked my son this morning if mommy told him to say nothing about the OM. he went and hid under some pillows and eventually said yes. i had to assure him he wasnt in trouble...
> 
> ...


OMG, that would be a deal breaker for me. Having a 3 year old lie for you?

Let me tell you, if that were a woman, I'd be beating her door down and make it clear and simple for her, don't go near my child! And if my H were instructing my child to lie on his behalf, wowza!! 

Elph, are you gonna confront her with this? That is extremely unhealthy behavior, your son is _way_ too young for this mess. I know you still want to be with her, but that seems too much to go without saying a thing.


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

I'll try n deal with it through mediation. I want him evaluated as well. Trying to avoid making it dirty. My biggest concern is the OM n his family. They're the ppl I don't want around my son. My wife is foggy to the max. It doesn't excuse it. But that's the deal there. Him and his family have no morals that I would associate with ppl of honor or integrity. 

Ultimately I hope it gets her out of the fog. And eventually towards reconcilliation. But well see
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Look into a morality clause!

It prevents your wife from introducing OM into your kids life!


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

the guy said:


> Look into a morality clause!
> 
> It prevents your wife from introducing OM into your kids life!


unfortuantly my son already kinda knows the OM, his son n daughter used to play with my son...playdate stuff.

but the ,orality clause is what i was looking for.

odd twist to that tale. the OMW said we should take our kids on a playdate, bucause we can, and they really cant...


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Keep your son away from his family. Look at ways of showing to a court that your wife and the OM are affecting the emotional well being of your son, take him to a psychologist, the report can be legally presented in a court , your word on it's own is not. Undermine her and the OM effort and do what you can to get your son away from their influence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecretTears (Jul 18, 2010)

I asked my IC this question yesterday. She didn't like Plan A at all, she says it puts the DS before you and that you are rewarding the DS for their behavior. She said you have to take care of yourself first and if that means little to no talking, withdrawal etc... that is fine.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Elph, it kinda sounds like your W isn't the only one in a fog. You are so smitten with her still, that you can't smell the rat for what it (or she) is. This woman is treating you worse than a rival treats her enemy. Her behavior in inexcusable. Run, don't walk, run, away from this woman and get your son out of this nightmare.


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