# Stay for the kids? Selfish?



## lovingreba

I hve an infant and toddler. I absolutely love them and they are what make me happy at this point. We have been married for 5 years and dated several prior to that. I have been feeling unhappy, unappreciated, and have fallen out of love in my marriage. I know that I can find soeone that I feel loves me unconditionally, will appreciate me and that I will love the way a married couple should love. We have done counseling and have had several talks previously about ending it, but never have. 

I guess, my question is plain and simply, is it selfish of me to want to end the marriage so I can find true love? We do only live once and I don't want to be in a marriage of convenience or a "friend" marriage...

Please give me some thoughts....


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## finallyseewhy

Is it that you just have fallen out of love? Is there a lot of fighting? I truly believe if you have just fallen out of love then it can be repaired....it will be a journey and might even be a long one but I think it can be repaired. 

Are either of you religious?


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## turnera

Having children is hard on a marriage. And yes, it is selfish to leave your marriage and devastate your kids' lives just because things aren't going the way you'd like.

Go to marriagebuilders.com and read everything on the site. Learn about how to keep a marriage vital and happy. The only thing you're guilty of right now is ignorance on how to sustain a marriage with kids. MB will give you the tools to make it better than ever.


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## lovingreba

To answer a few of the above, we are not very religious, but do have faith. Having already done the counseling route and it not working, my worry is that we would try to regain that love and the next thing I know is that I am 5 or 10 years older and in the same boat...


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## turnera

Sounds like you're just trying to get people to give you permission to leave your family.


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## finallyseewhy

I agree with turnera it looks like you want permission to leave


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## turnera

What exactly did you do in counseling? How many sessions? With whom? Did you get homework? Did you do it? Did you discuss it with the counselor? Did you try another one if the first didn't work? How much money have you spent on counseling? Have you sat down and looked at how much money you'll be spending on child support (alimony?) for the next 17 years so you can have your freedom? What makes you think the NEXT one will be more 'fun' if you won't do the work to fix this one? Are you aware that the chemicals in your brain that make you attracted to a person and make you both hot and heavy dissipate after about 3 years? Are you aware that having children is the second most effective way to make a marriage hard to sustain so you have to then put in extra effort to continue? (the first is money) Have you gone to other websites like marriagebuilders.com and READ everything you can get your hands on to see how to IMPROVE a marriage and keep it thriving?

Or did you just decide you're bored with this life and want a new one?


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## lovingreba

First off, not looking for anyone's permission. Just explaining what I am thinking about. Yes, we did try counseling and do all the homework and all that stuff. Went for about 3 months or so. Have not gone to marriagebuilders.com yet, but will be checking it out. Turnera, have you had any issues with your marriage, only reason I'm asking is because you seem pretty harsh on someone for trying to just express how they feel and get some advice. I know that marriage is hard and takes work/dedication. But is it truely possible to fall back into love with someone and to make it so they are just like your roommate? Was making a post just looking for some advice, and actually looking for advice from both perspectives, not looking to be lectured about my current feelings, but thanks.


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## turnera

I'm harsh because you have kids. If you do any research into what divorce does to kids, you would be thinking twice about leaving. You wouldn't be putting your OWN happiness ahead of your child's. At least not until they are out of the house and in college, and can deal with such things without blaming themselves.

Yes it IS possible to fall back in love. But YOU have to actually PLAN on doing it. It sounds to me like you are just bored with your family and want more fun. IMO, once you have kids, you don't get to be selfish any more. You DO do the work to fall back in love, because you now have a moral responsibility to do so by bringing those kids into the world.


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## cherrypie18

If your biggest problem is not being in love, if you 2 get along, respect and love each other even just as roommates then it's not worth destroying your children's family. As long as you guys don't fight in front of them and traumatize them, this is most probably fixable..

Is he still in love with you though? What has he done or not done to make you feel unloved and unappreciated? 

Maybe you feel like you're not in love anymore because you guys have fallen into a routine and well routines are boring.

Do something that will give you a rush, something different, exciting and fun, just the 2 of you.


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## junoblue

I am amazed at how judgmental some of you people are. To sit there and tell someone that because she has kids she is selfish to want out of an unhappy marriage. I am not an advocate of divorce, but surely the reason to stay in a marriage should not be solely based on the fact of having children or not. Divorce will be difficult on a child. It will take a lot of time to heal. But I am a firm believer that a child growing up with an unhappy mother or father can be just as if not more traumatic for a child. If you are a good parent and you are strong and secure, your kids will follow. You and only you live in your skin. Only you know how you feel. Only you can make the choice. But don't feel like you are selfish for wanting to be happy and fulfilled. Take your time. Focus on what it is you want. If you are a good strong parent your kids will get through whatever your choice maybe. Divorce will not be the ruination of your children. Teaching them it is ok to settle for less in life can. I am not saying leave or get a divorce, just don't feel like you are a bad parent or selfish for wanting more for yourself.


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## cherrypie18

Personally I don't think she's selfish. But I think she could maybe try to find another solution first before deciding to leave. Like I said if being in love is the problem it could be worked on. 

It's always better to be divorced and act decent around the kids rather than stay in a bad marriage and traumatize them by lack of love and respect for each other, the resentment and the fights and the negativity will obviously affect the kids way worse than ending a marriage peacefully.

I could be wrong but I think it's not so much the divorce itself that affects the kids, but the relationship between the parents before during or after it.

And I don't think a person can force themselves to fall back in love with someone, but that someone has to work at it also, because in the beginning when we fall in love, we don't decide to do it, the other person himself does whatever he can to win our hearts. 
And in this case, it's her husband who has to win back her heart.

All this is assumptions because she wasn't specific about what exactly happened in her marriage.


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## 2Daughters

Cherrypie...I thought like you did once..'don't leave because of the kids'...but my wife left anyway...saying inspite of us being both great parents (never fighting or arguing) she said that was the problem..no communication or intimacy..she stated even though we 'love' each other she didn't want my daughters to think this is how a happily married couples live...no hugging,kissing,holding hands...TALKING..instead just doing our own separate thing...after processing it all she is right in a way..let 'lovinreba' try it (physical separation) and let her decide because shes already left him emotionally.


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## Ataloss

Turnera,

I think a parent can be a better parent if they're happy. Do you think kids would prefer to have happy, yet separated parents or unhappy parents that have sacrificed their own happiness for them? I know someone who grew up in a home where her parents stuck it out though they were miserable. She resents the whole situation now and grew up in a very unhappy home. She WISHES they had divorced....her Mom is lost now and can't look back on happy days because she was MISERABLE in her marriage. Now, her health is failing and she may neve know happiness. 

Our kids are precious to us and most of us would do about anything for them, BUT we as adults/parents still have our own lives to take care of as well. If we don't take care of ourselves and have enough self respect to do what's right, the kids don't benefit as much either. Happy parents=happy kids. The KEY (in my opinion) once divorce is imminent, is to be wise about our actions when handling matters involving the other parent. Parents that divorce tend to forget that parenting is STILL a team effort. In my opinion, a lot of people ignore this because they're too wrapped up in bitterness about the marriage/divorce. I'm about ready to embark on this path (dissolusion actually, trying to agree on all things involved) and instead of thinking about what went wrong, I'm trying to think ahead about how we can build a new relationship to parent our kids as a team without the baggage of hurt feelings, etc. Life is too short for grudges and kids grow up way too fast to obsess about the past to the point of becoming a deficient parent.

Ataloss


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## Scannerguard

I would agree with the forum that she shouldn't be chastized for not putting her kids ahead of herself, etc. We live in a society that sometimes to kid's detriment, places the message in their heads that the world revolves around them.

So they grow up thinking that and become adults that conclude that.

"Well yeah, Mom and Dad. . .I expected you to stay together for my sake. Duhhhhh!!!!"

Divorce is a sad reality that informs them that the world does not revolve around them and they will have to face probably their first tragedy in thei life.

And divorce does not equal desertion, although it does mean seperation from the non-custodial parent and that's definitely the tragic part - the physical separation that inevitably results as usually the father has to work more to support 1.33 households.

Now. . .that being said, I also agree that perhaps you aren't looking into other solutions too. 

I sense an edge of "romanticism" in your post. . .like, "I know if I leave him and get divorced that I will be able to run off and live happily ever after with my knight in shining armor."

Really? You sure about that?

Think it's going to work out that way, do you? Think the market is hot for a woman with kids? Heck, you think the market is hot for a guy with kids?

I mean, I know that's what I always envisioned. . ."Some day, I'm going to meet a nice girl, with 2 kids from another father in the picture, and we'll live happily ever after and raise his kids together and I'll work my butt off to get some amount of respect from them only to have them tell me, 'You're not my real Dad' and the kids be right."

Tell me how you have it all planned out. I am fascinated by this romantic thinking.


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## turnera

lovingreba spent three months in therapy and decided it didn't work. *THREE MONTHS.*

Their children will live in dual households, deal with multiple families, all that entails - ASSUMING it becomes an amicable divorce - because these two people don't want to do the hard work to actually put the other person first for a bit long enough to see if they can find their 'spark.'

Three months, and those kids will be divorced kids for the rest of their lives. Because working on a marriage - of two people who once loved each other and apparently have no problems except that they don't 'feel' like being in love any more - is too much trouble.

lovingreba asked for advice. That IS my advice. Put your own wants on hold long enough to find a different counselor who can connect with you, do the research like marriagebuilders - which reba admits they haven't tried - or a million other sites that could help them.

No one here is talking to reba about how the chemicals you get when you're first dating fade away, as that's your body's way to procreate, and you're left with caring about each other. The only way you can still 'feel' good about each other is if you actively find WAYS to feel good about each other. It takes work, people.

And no one is talking about how having two very young children can turn a marriage completely upside down, and you can't expect two people to stay in love in that situation without WORKING on it! Do they have time apart from the kids? Do they know what they do to Love Bust each other? Do they know each other's Emotional Needs? Do they spend 15 hours a week together? Do they go on dates? Do they do anything to have fun together? How could they expect to stay in love if all they do every day is continue their ruts? 

It takes work, people? If there were no kids involved, and they're only married 5 years, I'd say GO for it! LEAVE! But they lost the right to be selfish and just leave when things aren't as fun, when they decided to have kids. Sorry, but that's life.

btw, I'm not sure, but based on the style of writing, I'd guess that lovingreba is the guy. 

If that's so, is one of your issues that you're not getting enough sex now?


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## Scannerguard

Ooops. . .sorry. . .maybe reba is a male. . .not sure. . .just thought of reba macintyre and assumed the OP was female.

Despite that, my opinion still stands - it sounds like "romanticism" run amok.

Okay, how about this? How many women dream of hooking up with a guy with 2 kids, on the hook for child support and working his butt off to make support, and has the kids every other weekend?

I'll tell you - in a lot of ways. . .the market is worse for men in this regard - women are very scared that they'll end up bieng "stepmom", that you'll saddle them with your kids, and just frankly steer clear of you. With men, it doesn't have to be so bad. ..they walk right into a family (as per Jerry Maguire).

As Seinfeld would say, "You're undatable! UNDATABLE!!!" LOL. Okay, not exactly true but I am trying to quash that romantic edge to your thinking, the way you may be glamorizing divorce as a solution to your marital woes.

Divorce is not romantic. Divorce is not glamorous.


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## lovingreba

You guys are very correct. I am a male and not being proud of it, know that there is someone out there who loves me and wants me for me. Doesn't care about any of the baggage, my flaws, just wants me and doesn't care about being a step-mom. I know what I "should" do and that is stay married and try and make it work. But for whatever reason I just have a feeling that it will not work and we are past finding "that" love again that is needed to stay married. Don't get me wrong, I love her for many reasons, but just don't think I'm in love with her. I keep saying that I do love her and want to make it work, but I keep saying it because I'm too scared of the future to tell her that i don't think I'm in love with her any longer and have feelings that it will work. I love her as the mother of my children and she is a great mother and we have a great family, but Iam not attracted to her and don't have that love I know I could have....I know sounds sooo selfish and is, but shouldn't I try and have some true love and someone who makes my heart/stomach hurt when I leave them, only if even for an hour???


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## turnera

If nothing else, do some reading about what people do, what they turn into, once they go down the road of having an affair. You are giving ALL of the typical word-for-word speeches of someone who is throwing his marriage away because he's got *someone waiting in the wings.* There is nothing romantic, appropriate, or logical about that.

If you are not willing to tell your OW to NEVER contact you again, and THEN go 6 months working on your marriage, KNOWING that this woman will NEVER EVER be in your life again, then you are taking the coward's way out.

And your *children* will be the ones suffering for the rest of their lives, as they struggle to deal with therapy, self-hatred, self-blame, and guilt, all misplaced, because YOU wanted to be happy and were not willing to expend the effort you want to put into OW into your WIFE.


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## finallyseewhy

Yes, it is. Your kids will be affected and probably way more then you could ever imagine. I speak from personal experience. Kids beings shuffled back and forth is hard and it pretty much puts a halt on an innocent childhood. Now of course if their is physically abuse or abuse of any kind then that is different. But just not wanting to TRULY fight is selfish.


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## addictedtorun

I am in the same boat...married for 23 years, 4 children...My husband has always been the powerful one in the family...now i have, I guess u could say found myself...lost 60 lbs, took up running, mountain biking etc...my husband is also going through changes, very negative, hollering all the time...he struggles alot with his health, weight...it is hard for him...He has also become very jealous of me and I cannot move (I belong to some athletic groups)...I have been thinking the same thing...I do love him...married for so long..how I could I not...however the abuse, bullying and not letting me be my own person has been hard...Not what I had planned for sure...Stay because I have 4 beautiful children, and unless something changes, we will be miserable..which we are now...I called a councellor an she said, that it is unhealthy for the children to be brought up in a situation of unhappy parents...teaches them it is ok to accept a husband how hollers, controls etc. As far as finding someone else....after being married for so long, if anything happened...I don't think I would want to be in a heavy relationship again...Not being able to be who i am, having to answer to someone all the time...maybe that is selfish??? I don't know...I also think I'm going through some things...sorry to take over your post...but I can relate...do we stay and be unhappy, life is short...but then we have children to think about...it is hard...I look at my family picture and want to cry...not knowing the answers either...it is tough...


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## turnera

addicted, you are talking about (1) abuse and (2) NOT letting an affair destroy your marriage.

If you want out of a marriage because the marriage is bad, that's entirely different than letting an affair convince you that you have to leave. Which is what reba is doing.


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## Meriter

turnera said:


> I'm harsh because you have kids. If you do any research into what divorce does to kids, you would be thinking twice about leaving. You wouldn't be putting your OWN happiness ahead of your child's. At least not until they are out of the house and in college, and can deal with such things without blaming themselves..


I'm going to call you on that one. I think you're just harsh because you like the power trip. 
It's so easy to sit back and say "you're an awful person because you want to leave your family. Look at me, I'm so much better than you!"
I've been the recipient of many such comments, believe me.
The truth of the matter is, recent studies have shown that children of divorce actually develop better than children of unhappy or unstable marriages.
Do some research of your own before you get back up on your pedestal.


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## 2Daughters

Actually kids can have reasonable adjustment to a divorce..if both parents allow that to happen, but divorce is not friendly so the chances of both parents being agreeable for the kids sake isn't always the case..it can be done though, so when people throw out averages and numbers, that's all they are, I wonder if those parents had stayed together if they wouldn't have had a different set of problems due to living with 2 miserable parents.:scratchhead:


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## Meriter

2Daughters said:


> Actually kids can have reasonable adjustment to a divorce..if both parents allow that to happen, but divorce is not friendly so the chances of both parents being agreeable for the kids sake isn't always the case..it can be done though, so when people throw out averages and numbers, that's all they are, I wonder if those parents had stayed together if they wouldn't have had a different set of problems due to living with 2 miserable parents.:scratchhead:


I read one study recently that took X number of kids subject to divorce, and x number of kids subject to dysfunctional marriages and they found that those kids who were subject to divorce developed better emotionally in many areas.
Now you're right, these are numbers in the end and every situation is different. Of course children in happy marriaged are better off than any of the others, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

I can also speak from my own experiences. My parents hated each other for as long as I can remember, but never divorced. 
My dad died when I was around 20. Since then, my relationship with my siblings and my mother has been terrible. My siblings sided with my mother during all of the battles between my mom and dad, and I sided with my dad. The war continues today I guess. 

I really think that things would be better now had they divorced.


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## turnera

Meriter said:


> I'm going to call you on that one. I think you're just harsh because you like the power trip.
> It's so easy to sit back and say "you're an awful person because you want to leave your family. Look at me, I'm so much better than you!"
> I've been the recipient of many such comments, believe me.
> The truth of the matter is, recent studies have shown that children of divorce actually develop better than children of unhappy or unstable marriages.
> Do some research of your own before you get back up on your pedestal.


lol

Why are you so defensive? Because you cheated? Because you want to continue to cheat?


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