# Do poor men have any legitimate basis for confidence?



## Shell Question Man (Oct 20, 2013)

I've never had any confidence starting in early childhood (my parents were active druggies when I was born, they handed me off to a married couple of alcoholics who basically neglected me) and I've never earned more than $20K a year.

I had great grades in school but never got a good job and I feel like a complete failure. My childhood social deficits grew over the years in relative terms, as my peers became more experienced socially and professionally, while I stagnated indefinitely.

Trying to look at the big picture objectively - the best I can expect is an approximation - I personally find no rational basis for having confidence, yet I see many poor men who do have confidence. 

What is the basis of their confidence, is it legitimate, and if so, how can I acquire the same?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Money does not make the man. 

How old are you?


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## Shell Question Man (Oct 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Money does not make the man.
> 
> How old are you?



Let's just say I'm a middle baby boomer - I know, time to fuhgeddabout it and crawl under a rock.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Shell Question Man said:


> Let's just say I'm a middle baby boomer - I know, time to fuhgeddabout it and crawl under a rock.


Knowing your age is very important in figuring out how you can deal with getting your head in the right place. So you are about 58. I'm 64 so I'm one of the older baby boomers.



The second part of your response above show that you think of yourself. No on here thinks that. You do.


Have you had any counseling to deal with your low self esteem?


Generally self esteem comes from the things we accomplish as much or more from the amount of money we earn.

Are you willing to do things that would up your confidence and self esteem? They take time and energy.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I've run into some confident homeless guys!

Living a life due to circumstance, and even when they were given a bad hand in life they know that they can find a meal and a warm place to sleep...but the end game is a side job to give them enough money to get a boost up.

Some times knowing that a boost up in life is just around the corner and thats all the confidence one needs. But the reality is...at the end of the day some folks just hope to get something something to make the pain of why they are homeless in the 1st place go away.

Now...back to being poor! I'm one poor SOB but I have made some choices and I should have turned left at the corner when I have turned right, but then again I can always make a u turn if the crap I'm facing isn't going to pan out. I mean I really have to be lost and I have been!

I have made some dicisions in my life and just like any wrong decision I have made I have the confidence to make that u turn and go back or I can have the confidence to see what I can make out of the hand that was dealt to me.

Hell maybe this isn't confidence at all but my completive nature to see if I can beat what ever is pucking with me.LOL


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## Shell Question Man (Oct 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Knowing your age is very important in figuring out how you can deal with getting your head in the right place. So you are about 58. I'm 64 so I'm one of the older baby boomers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No. I haven't had any counseling and on my income, I can't really afford it.

Trying to be objective I simply don't have any achievements that seem worthy of self-esteem.

I could certainly try things that would up my confidence athough for as long as I can remeber I've always had a profound sense of lacking the social skills to make things happen. A deep-rooted sennse of inefficacy, if you will.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Shell Question Man said:


> No. I haven't had any counseling and on my income, I can't really afford it.
> 
> Trying to be objective I simply don't have any achievements that seem worthy of self-esteem.
> 
> I could certainly try things that would up my confidence athough for as long as I can remeber I've always had a profound sense of lacking the social skills to make things happen. A deep-rooted sennse of inefficacy, if you will.


Phuck that!!!!
Stop looking at what you don't have and look at what you do have!
Alot of swing penises don't have a pot to piss in and your typing on a computor,most likely sitting in a chair and not the ground with some cardboard under your @ss

Stop letting the negitve crap define you!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Shell Question Man said:


> I've never had any confidence starting in early childhood (my parents were active druggies when I was born, they handed me off to a married couple of alcoholics who basically neglected me) and I've never earned more than $20K a year.
> 
> I had great grades in school but never got a good job and I feel like a complete failure. My childhood social deficits grew over the years in relative terms, as my peers became more experienced socially and professionally, while I stagnated indefinitely.
> 
> ...


I like your question because it reminds me of a similar position I was in many years ago.
The basis of the poor men's confidence in your post is in the fact that they have hope.
Hope that things would change, or that they can change things for the better over time.
This gives them confidence , and they don't see their present circumstances as hindrances but stepping stones to future possibilities.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Shell Question Man said:


> No. I haven't had any counseling and on my income, I can't really afford it.
> 
> Trying to be objective I simply don't have any achievements that seem worthy of self-esteem.
> 
> I could certainly try things that would up my confidence athough for as long as I can remeber I've always had a profound sense of lacking the social skills to make things happen. A deep-rooted sennse of inefficacy, if you will.


I assume you live in the USA. On your income, counseling is free. 

Have you ever looked into getting on Medicaid?

What kind of work do you do? What skills do you have?

If you were able to, what career would you have pursued?


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

When you lack confidence you tend to isolate yourself in order to feel safe. Your isolation and defense mechanisms are effecting your career success and your social success. The only way to gain confidence is to to put yourself out there and take risks. Start small but step outside your comfort zone and no matter what the results are continue to do it and eventually increase the risk. You have to build yourself up and thE only way to do that is through action. Again.... Start small....


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Is there nothing you do that you feel you do well? Focus on that to build confidence.


I remember in an interview Muhammad Ali was asked about his claim to be the Greatest.

He was asked, "What if you had grown up to be a garbage collector instead of a professional boxer?"

He said, "Then I would have been the Greatest Garbage collector who ever lived."

I like that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WyshIknew said:


> Is there nothing you do that you feel you do well? Focus on that to build confidence.
> 
> 
> I remember in an interview Muhammad Ali was asked about his claim to be the Greatest.
> ...


My father had this attitude. 

He used to tell us all the time that it does not matter what we did in life. What mattered was that we strove to be the best at whatever it was we did do. I believe this.

Money does not make a person.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

According to society, particularly for a man it does focus on money as success and self worth. I don't necessarily equate the two. Lots of us were dealt a [email protected] hand and no matter how old you are it's never to late to turn things around. If you can't get therapy start reading, commit yourself to getting better and make yourself a priority. Money doesn't equal self worth, is not the condition for it. Just look at all the people with money whose lives implode, money doesn't make you happy...just lets you be miserable in style..... I for one choose substance over money... Real love, real friends, good character and a genuine nature....I want money too but If i had to choose i would rather have substance.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

WyshIknew said:


> He was asked, "What if you had grown up to be a garbage collector instead of a professional boxer?"
> 
> He said, "Then I would have been the Greatest Garbage collector who ever lived."


Haha, that's a pretty sweet attitude


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

It is tough when you feel like you didn't get that start on socialization when you should have -- as a kid. But humans are remarkably resilient creatures, and we have great capacity to learn and change. Social skills are like any other skill -- they can be learned, and they improve with practice and dedication. 

I have been pushing myself beyond boundaries since my ex decided he wanted a divorce. I was very socially isolated as a kid, and that continued on even into my marriage. Then, suddenly, in my mid-40s, I found myself on my own, no family around, only 2 close friends from work. First of all, I learned about myself. What I liked to do, what made me happy. Then I started to pursue those things. The more I learned and got better, the more my confidence grew in other things. 

Are you employed? Are you good at your job? Are there opportunities for you to grow within your job? If so, this is an avenue for upping your confidence. Do you have things you are interested in, where you could find an opportunity to volunteer? Like, for example, an interest in helping people could lead you to volunteer at a local food bank, or an interest in animals could lead you to volunteer at the humane society. If you're busy doing things, it takes a little pressure off of you to have a lot of interpersonal contact right off the bat. But as you keep going and keep getting to know people and they get to know you, you may find it easier to just say a few words to people, chat a little, etc. You have to start somewhere!

One thing that was important to me was the realization that I am an introvert. While I was lacking in socialization early on, I also am someone who values time alone. I had to realize that sometimes when I thought I was a failure due to being really uncomfortable around people, it was just that it was time for me to recharge on my own for a while. 

You obviously have access to the internet, so do some looking for books or article with ideas on how to interact with people; things written for shy people or introverts. Often there are little exercises to try when you're out among people. Really simple stuff like looking people in the eye and smiling as you walk down the street. Every time you do something and push yourself, you'll have a little sense of pride grow inside you and the confidence will follow. It's like a reverse domino effect, lol. 

The fact that you're asking is a good sign -- it means that you care and you haven't given up. So now take the next step and try some of the things people here have mentioned.


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

Shell Question Man said:


> I've never had any confidence starting in early childhood (my parents were active druggies when I was born, they handed me off to a married couple of alcoholics who basically neglected me) and I've never earned more than $20K a year.
> 
> I had great grades in school but never got a good job and I feel like a complete failure. My childhood social deficits grew over the years in relative terms, as my peers became more experienced socially and professionally, while I stagnated indefinitely.
> 
> ...


So, you are the child and foster child of drug users and alcoholics. Are you either one? If not, you have already done something countless children thereof fail to do - that is, you did not perpetuate the cycle. That's very tough. Doesn't sound like a loser to me.

Look, true confidence is not about money, or scoring with women, or anything of the sort. It's about what's inside you and how good you feel about what's rattling around between your ears.

It is sometimes over-recommended on this board, but in the book _No More Mr. Nice Guy_, author Robert Glover wrote out a list of maxims for a man to live by. One of those was, "No matter what happens, you will handle it."

Think back on your life. You probably had some difficult situations, which created a lot of stress. You probably faced adversity; hell, you said as much about your childhood. Guess what? You're still here. You're still standing. I bet you've got more strength than even know.

As Angel said above, push your boundaries. Try something - something where you have the potential to fail. Start with something minor, like seeing if you can cook a meal you've never tried to make. Maybe it looks daunting but when you try it, one of two things will happen. You'll either succeed and it will taste great and you will recognize that you *are* capable and your confidence will build ... or it won't, and will taste bad, but you will have tried something new and your life won't have ended - and your confidence will build. Type "simple tricks to improve your confidence" in your browser bar and you get dozens of ideas.

You can do this, brother.  Best of luck to ya!


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Shell Question Man said:


> I've never had any confidence starting in early childhood (my parents were active druggies when I was born, they handed me off to a married couple of alcoholics who basically neglected me) and I've never earned more than $20K a year.
> 
> I had great grades in school but never got a good job and I feel like a complete failure. My childhood social deficits grew over the years in relative terms, as my peers became more experienced socially and professionally, while I stagnated indefinitely.
> 
> ...


What should give you confidence in life is your *SUCCESS*. You were born to two active drug takers, palmed off to two alcoholics - yet managed to get good grades at school and go on to earn your own living. You should be proud of this, because this is a great achievement all on its own, IMO, because it shows great inner strength and resilience...

You sound articulate and intelligent, and it's never too late to diversify and find new and interesting ways of supplementing one's income.

(I'm in late middle-age and studying for a degree)


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Convection said*: So, you are the child and foster child of drug users and alcoholics. Are you either one? If not, you have already done something countless children thereof fail to do - that is, you did not perpetuate the cycle. That's very tough. Doesn't sound like a loser to me.


I was thinking the same thing. 

Every post I read on here is uplifting... I don't even know what to add !!...the rest of you said it all... 

Me & my husband has never looked at what someone earned as a barometer to *their worth*...it's always been more about the heart....how do they treat other people... ya know.. everyone has PURPOSE...no matter how down they may *feel* or where they have been in life, some have had horrendous unfair beginnings due to no fault of their own....as it sounds you have. 

To find and fulfill that purpose to what you have been given to work with.....is our most fulfilling challenge...to seek that out, find it, live it...

What is it that you excel at, ENJOY passing time doing.....what is your Passions? Start there, when you do these things, confidence comes as you bless others with your gift...

Just living your passion.. you can not keep this from yourself.. it will flow back to you.... even if you were just a Garbage Collector...(or Sanitation Engineer)....


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Convection said:


> So, you are the child and foster child of drug users and alcoholics. Are you either one? If not, you have already done something countless children thereof fail to do - that is, you did not perpetuate the cycle. That's very tough. Doesn't sound like a loser to me...
> 
> 
> Think back on your life. You probably had some difficult situations, which created a lot of stress. You probably faced adversity; hell, you said as much about your childhood. Guess what? You're still here. You're still standing. I bet you've got more strength than even know...
> ...





Cosmos said:


> What should give you confidence in life is your *SUCCESS*. You were born to two active drug takers, palmed off to two alcoholics - yet managed to get good grades at school and go on to earn your own living. You should be proud of this, because this is a great achievement all on its own, IMO, because it shows great inner strength and resilience...
> 
> You sound articulate and intelligent, and it's never too late to diversify and find new and interesting ways of supplementing one's income.


I think Convection and Cosmos really hit upon something brilliant here. They bring up something that I'll bet is really more relevant to the way you feel about yourself than simply a lack of training in social skills -- being a child of chemically-dependent parents (and in your case, _foster_ parents, too). Take a look at some materials written for ACOA's (Adult Children of Alcoholics). I'm not an ACOA, but my dad was, and my mom had a lot of untreated mental issues. After my divorce, during my therapy process, I discovered that a lot of what I felt about myself and a lot of the isolation and confidence/shame issues lined up really clearly with things found in ACOA's. In my case, my dad never dealt with his issues, and it went down another generation, even though he didn't drink. 

You _have_ shown a lot of resilience - especially in avoiding addictions yourself, but the feelings you have regarding your personal worth might also be related to being raised by addicted adults. You might have an ACOA support group in your area. Sometimes meeting with people who have similar issues goes a long way in helping to sort things out.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

In this world, people are taught that having more money and power is successful, but actually there are a lot of things money can't buy. People are misguided. 

Money can't buy happiness. I know a lot of people, they have successful careers, they have big houses, and they have brand name cars, but they are not happy, actually money is the cause of their unhappiness. In order to accumulate more money, they neglect their health, they neglect their family, they don't have time for friends. 

Money can't buy genuine security. You think the more money you have, the more secure your life is. But, for most of the people, the truth is not. When you have a lot of money, you start to worry about losing the money you have, you start to worry about being robbed and kidnapped. Look at all those rich people, why do they need so many body guards? Living as a common person doesn't need to worry about that. 

Money can't buy personal contentment. People are interesting, the more they have, the more they want. They make $50,000 this year, they want to make $100,000 next year, whey they reach their goal of $100,000, they have a new goal of $200,000. If people don't learn to become content with what they have, they always want more, and this endless desire is making them unsatisfied and not content with their life. Constantly competing with your neighbors and friends won't give your mind any peace. 

Money can't buy family unity. Look at people now, they are busy working, they are spending little time with their spouses and children. Gradually their family becomes distant and falls apart. People need to spend time together to feel close. Giving your child a toy will make him happy for ten minutes, but if you spend time playing with him, he feels close to you. The more time you play with him, the more fond memory he has for you in the future. 

I am not envious of those people who have money but live a misguided life. I don't want to live my life like that. It has a fabulous appearance, but it's dark, gloomy, and lonely inside. 

It doesn't mean that we should view money useless. No. We need to work hard and live a responsible life. We need to have a more balanced view.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> I think Convection and Cosmos really hit upon something brilliant here. They bring up something that I'll bet is really more relevant to the way you feel about yourself than simply a lack of training in social skills -- being a child of chemically-dependent parents (and in your case, _foster_ parents, too). Take a look at some materials written for ACOA's (Adult Children of Alcoholics). I'm not an ACOA, but my dad was, and my mom had a lot of untreated mental issues. After my divorce, during my therapy process, I discovered that a lot of what I felt about myself and a lot of the isolation and confidence/shame issues lined up really clearly with things found in ACOA's. In my case, my dad never dealt with his issues, and it went down another generation, even though he didn't drink.
> 
> You _have_ shown a lot of resilience - especially in avoiding addictions yourself, but the feelings you have regarding your personal worth might also be related to being raised by addicted adults. You might have an ACOA support group in your area. Sometimes meeting with people who have similar issues goes a long way in helping to sort things out.


:iagree:

Here's some good info OP:- Co-dependency and Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACA) issues

Having survived in a family where alcohol was an issue (my father and then my brother), I can identify with a lot of what is written in that article.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Some time ago, I had a guy working for me. Mid 40's the kind of guy that never got a honest break. Wife divorced him and took him for everything and he hit a real low point. He lived in a beat up 20 ft trailer with the bare essentials. Had to hand wash his clothes and iron them with a bottle full of hot water. Yet, his clothes were clean and his work shoes had holes in them and every day he had one cheese sandwich and a half an apple in his lunch. 

He worked hard and paid his bills and had very little left over. One day we were working and his work shoes were soaked through mostly because they were worn out and had holes in them. I left the job site and bought coffee for my employees and stopped at K Mart and bought him a new pair of boots and a bag of heavy socks. I did this because I felt bad for the guy and he worked hard and did his job the best that he could.

I called him over to the truck out of ear shot of the rest of the guys and gave him the work boots and socks. He refused them but thanked me for the offer. I told him that he needs them and take them. I'm the boss of this outfit. I also told him that if anyone asked, that he gave me the money that morning and to purchase them when I went for coffee. He agreed but insisted he pay me back and every week he gave me five dollars. I kept it for him and added it to his pay so he didn't know.

Two years later he died from pneumonia. What he didn't know was that money wise he was as poor as a church mouse but morally, he was a rich man. A plot was donated for burial and his wife and kids never showed up when she found out. I along with the rest of my employees pitched in and bought him a head stone for his grave. 

This guy was a good man. He paid his child support and that was the reason why he was broke. All in all he was the richest man I ever knew. R.I.P. Kevin__________. You were a good guy.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> A plot was donated for burial and his wife and kids never showed up when she found out.


 She new about his funeral but wouldn't come? He got pneumonia from living in terrible conditions? Did he manage to get medical treatment?

Sad story.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> She new about his funeral but wouldn't come? He got pneumonia from living in terrible conditions? Did he manage to get medical treatment?
> 
> Sad story.


 She said she didn't know but I think she lied through her teeth. I didn't know her. Just met her once by accident when I dropped him off at his trailer and she was there for some reason. 

He got a bad cold. Thought he could shake it off and just kept taking cold medicine and it got worse. Finally he went to the ER and was admitted and it just got too bad and he died from complications from what I was told. Nice guy. He didn't deserve it. I hope she pays for it some day.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

6301 said:


> Some time ago, I had a guy working for me. Mid 40's the kind of guy that never got a honest break. Wife divorced him and took him for everything and he hit a real low point. *He lived in a beat up 20 ft trailer with the bare essentials. Had to hand wash his clothes and iron them with a bottle full of hot water. Yet, his clothes were clean and his work shoes had holes in them and every day he had one cheese sandwich and a half an apple in his lunch. *
> 
> *He worked hard and paid his bills and had very little left over. *One day we were working and his work shoes were soaked through mostly because they were worn out and had holes in them. I left the job site and bought coffee for my employees and stopped at K Mart and bought him a new pair of boots and a bag of heavy socks. I did this because I felt bad for the guy and he worked hard and did his job the best that he could.
> 
> ...


Your story has me balling here... THIS is how I see people...there is always a story behind every face....too many of us get caught up on the exterior and miss how someone LIVES..... this man had integrity...he put others before himself...he lived as we should all live... 

Sad...yes...some seem to get no breaks in life but surpass all of us on their humility and humanity..even acceptance of their circumstances, as hard as they may be... they make the best of it -without complaining, or blaming others.....they uphold their responsibilities..as a real man would. 

.. You were a good man too - to do what you did ...slipping his $$ back in there..unbeknownst to him.... I like that! May he know someday how He inspired YOU.....I bet when you have a bad day... Kevin________ comes to mind!


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## Shell Question Man (Oct 20, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> What should give you confidence in life is your *SUCCESS*. You were born to two active drug takers, palmed off to two alcoholics - yet managed to get good grades at school and go on to earn your own living. You should be proud of this, because this is a great achievement all on its own, IMO, because it shows great inner strength and resilience...
> 
> You sound articulate and intelligent, and it's never too late to diversify and find new and interesting ways of supplementing one's income.
> 
> (I'm in late middle-age and studying for a degree)



I was so busy feeling sorry for myself - what good is being smart and getting great grades if if you are unhappy to the point of despondency - that early I blew what little success I had had. I got a liberal arts degree that turned out to be pretty useless when I couldn't afford to go to law school and I floundered at the bottom of a recession in a Rust Belt economy from which 2/3 of new graduates were fleeing.

So I have never had a job that could be considered good or well-paying or desirable. For men, that is a colossal fail and for women that seems to be an unforgivable fail.


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## Shell Question Man (Oct 20, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Here's some good info OP:- Co-dependency and Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACA) issues
> 
> Having survived in a family where alcohol was an issue (my father and then my brother), I can identify with a lot of what is written in that article.



Woe is me I rent a room in a house and there is a resident volatile alcoholic who hasn't worked in five years. He got the full 99 weeks of unemployment benefits, then got on some VA disability (?) program, and then Social Security Disability. He's got a suspended license for DUI (not his first) and doesn't get out of the house much. I don't ask for much in life but I do ask for peace, quiet, and solitude and I can't have those things here. I haate it but can't afford to move.

He's 60 years old, drinks like a fish and smokes like a chimney, has little money and can't legally drive while suspended (and he doesn't, he handed his keys and car to his adult daughter) and seems to always have one or more women wrapped around his finger (and his current girlfriend is rather hot). She wants to marry him and says he can have sex with other women; everyone except his ex. What's up with all that?


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## Shell Question Man (Oct 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I assume you live in the USA. On your income, counseling is free.
> 
> Have you ever looked into getting on Medicaid?
> 
> ...



Oh gee, currently I work in a convenience store (no internal advancement opportunities, I'd have to wait until my manager leaves and he's unlikely to go anywhere until he retires in 20 years).

Seem to lack marketable skills; I've applied with temp agencies and I have about a half dozen of the hundreds of skills they ask for.

I wanted to become a lawyer but couldn't afford law school, which is more expensive than an undergraduate year. More recently I've refined that; if I could do it over I would have gone to law school (part-time if necessary) and become a tax lawyer. A lawyer friend told me a joke which informed me that not going to law school was a big mistake:

Q: What do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of their law school class?

A: Counselor.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm not sensing a lack of confidence as much as a bit of self-pity. There are a lot of people just on TAM alone who didn't end up with the life/career/education/relationship/health they wanted. How much have you done beyond going to temp agencies? Is there a local college/university/community college near you? Most schools have programs for adults trying to get back into school. Even if you take one class at a time, you are at least doing something to move your life forward. Maybe that will end you up in law school, or maybe it will lead you to something else. But it will most likely lead you away from the convenience store. Look for financial assistance programs and grants, too. 

Do some digging, make some calls, check out programs. You can guarantee your life will not improve if you don't change things up, and if you keep comparing what you have to what other people have, or what you originally wanted.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

First, I come from a poor background as well. One of five kids. Not only were we poor but we were social outcasts. We were this bizaare mix of working class poor and mountain man *******. Instead of going to Disneyland, we would go to glorified mud puddles out in the desert. We never went ate out. We had a very simple diet that mostly consisted of mashed potatoes, elk steak, and mac and cheese out of the box. Not much to brag about there. 

Second, between the 3rd and 4th grade, I endured a summer of giving bj’s and being raped. Not much destroys your confidence more than this. So what did you do this summer? “ummmm….. nothing.

Third, I am quite short and always have been. In 7th grade, I could walk into my locker. No ducking, no adjusting. I was a whopping 4’5” and about 80 lbs. 

Needless to say, the deck was stacked. I am the only college graduate on either side of my family. 35 first cousins and only five graduated high school. 

So, how did I become confident and well-adjusted? First, I know that I have some qualities that are unique to me such as being determined to a fault. I am quite proud of the fact that I taught myself how to read from a TV guide and that I have only missed seven days in my working career. Those sound small but they are the building blocks. 

Pursuing hobbies and not letting what others think of you ruin the enjoyment that you get from them is important. I am sure that I look funny in spandex riding my bike to these remote places but I do not care.

So in short, I gain confidence from knowing that I am unique and have done things that few others have. Being poor puts a few more obstacles in your path but that just means that you will be stronger and more genuine at the end.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Shell Question Man said:


> Oh gee, currently I work in a convenience store (no internal advancement opportunities, I'd have to wait until my manager leaves and he's unlikely to go anywhere until he retires in 20 years).
> 
> Seem to lack marketable skills; I've applied with temp agencies and I have about a half dozen of the hundreds of skills they ask for.
> 
> ...


When I was in college, one of my classmates was the mother of one of my boyfriends. She was 56. Her husband had left her with 3 children still at home. The older 3 helped with the child care while mom got her degree. She graduated at 60 with a degree something like paralegal. The last time I saw her was when I went to try for legal aid. She was working in their office. 

One of my bothers, 55, just finished his BA in arts management. That's his field.

If you want to be a lawyer you can still do it. Have you looked into grant programs? You can get student loans too.

If you think that a legal degree is too much at this point, there are programs for paralegals.

Or become a tax preparer.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> *My father had this attitude.
> 
> He used to tell us all the time that it does not matter what we did in life. What mattered was that we strove to be the best at whatever it was we did do. I believe this. Money does not make the person!*


*Money does not make a person. It is richly a combination of the size of a person's heart, in loving God as He loves us, and in loving your neighbor as you would love yourself!*


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

Shell Question Man said:


> Trying to look at the big picture objectively - the best I can expect is an approximation - I personally find no rational basis for having confidence, yet I see many poor men who do have confidence.
> 
> What is the basis of their confidence, is it legitimate, and if so, how can I acquire the same?


One of the reasons you have no confidence, is that you take no risks. That, in itself, is a risk, but it's a risk by default. Meaning, it's a risk that happens if you do nothing. 

You don't achieve success, if you're not willing to risk failure. You don't accomplish anything, if you're not willing to try something you may fail at. You can never ask the girl out, if you cannot risk being turned down, for instance. 

I'm 50, and my entire youth, and a good part of my adult life has been in pursuit of removing risk. I avoided everything when young, because I hated my father humiliating me for failure or to manipulate me. I hated him taking over everything I was interested in doing. Anything that meant something to me became a weapon in his hands to use to make me do what HE wanted me to do. 

So, I became obsessed with avoiding risk. Avoiding being hurt. Avoiding taking chances. I lived most of my life having been remarkably unremarkable. I was also poor, unhappy, and unfulfilled, and my relationships were abysmally horrible. 

But you do NOT have to live this way. Do small things that involve small risks. Like learning to fly a model plane, or ANYTHING that involves taking a chance with a reward for success. Not so big that failure is unbearable, but big enough that success is a reward of its own. 

Once you learn to recognize how risk is the other half of the coin called "opportunity", you can then find opportunity. It has existed everywhere you have avoided going, because you were looking at risk and thereby avoiding opportunity. This is true of career, job, love, or just about anything else. There's no need to be a daredevil, you just learn to not be so fearful of risk you refuse to take advantage of opportunity.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> When I was in college, one of my classmates was the mother of one of my boyfriends. She was 56. Her husband had left her with 3 children still at home. The older 3 helped with the child care while mom got her degree. She graduated at 60 with a degree something like paralegal. The last time I saw her was when I went to try for legal aid. She was working in their office.
> 
> One of my bothers, 55, just finished his BA in arts management. That's his field.
> 
> ...


Or even a Conveyancer. Lots of money to be made in property law, without the necessity for a law degree.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Money doesn't mean anything as long as you can pay your rent and put food in your mouth. 

Stop focusing on how much you don't think you have. Volunteer at soup kitchens during the holidays. Say hello to every single person you pass by on the street. Want to know what makes a person worthy of being on this earth? Be a KIND person. 

My favorite quote "Always be a little kinder than necessary." 

I'm 34, live paycheck to paycheck supporting my family (3 now, used to be 4). I'm a high school drop out and just went back to school online (thank you financial aid and every grant I could pull out of my @ss). I have a career but I hate it and I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to quit and go back to being a waitress. It is hard work and doesn't pay much in the long run...but I get to be nice to people all day and be active. 

Living a simple and kind life = winner winner chicken dinner in my book! You are worthy just as you are doing exactly what you are doing!!!


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## Shell Question Man (Oct 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> When I was in college, one of my classmates was the mother of one of my boyfriends. She was 56. Her husband had left her with 3 children still at home. The older 3 helped with the child care while mom got her degree. She graduated at 60 with a degree something like paralegal. The last time I saw her was when I went to try for legal aid. She was working in their office.
> 
> One of my bothers, 55, just finished his BA in arts management. That's his field.
> 
> ...



Alas, I am one of those evil student loan defaulters Reagan warned you (or your parents) about. For the past ten years I've had a $100/mo student loan garnishment which after taxes leaves me living at poverty level but the interest and loan fees mean that it will take something like 41 years to pay off my student loans.

So I can't get financial aid which means going back to school simply is not an option. And I don't want to be a tax preparer or paralegal anyway.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

Give up folks. No matter what anyone suggests this fellow has a reason why it is not possible, won't work, not an option. Glass permanently half empty. Move on and think of him fondly next time you drop by a convenience store.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

For know thing we've got wealthy people in my family and they are out there , like out there. They think they're top of the heap though yet your just scratching your head for 12 mths after every time you've seen them. Guess they're just good at and lucky in one aspect.
But nope , l go with Ele , it's not about money, although admittedly that sure does pick you up .Having it , being able to get it, buy stuff, feel nice for once.

l went through a stage where we just couldn't get a house when we moved here , took 4yrs . l lost heaps of confidence and l hated myself for it but l just felt like such a loser, Somehow , by another 2yrs though we somehow now have 3 places and you know what - just saying to x the other night, With everything that's happened now , plus the stresses and costs of the 3 , l have felt like literally giving them away , so there ya go.

but l feel like l shouldn't have let those hard yrs effect me like that , felt pretty disgusted with myself.
And yet my brother , 40s, very nastily divorced , no job , druggo , just got out of jail - again , has nothing, not even a car or a place to live yet he still somehow though , thinks he knows everything and is pretty well king [email protected] .
Sometimes l think with him though , lucky for him he does still seem as confident as ever or he'd be in a nuthouse with his life.

Seems to be more about the persons personality .Some are just fine about not having much.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

PS , dunno what you do for work but you should start your own business . That builds heaps of confidence and you feel damn proud of yourself to.
Plus you can often work your own hours and make very good money


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

I have more respect for a poor man with no debt then a rich man who has more liabilities than assets. 

If your financial situation is a problem in your life then do something about it. Get more education, training, change jobs, do something. I do have less respect for someone who knows they are unhappy with a part of their life, complain but do nothing about it. We all make mistakes, nothing wrong with that. But own it come up with a plan, get help and move on. Some of the greatest men in history had little net worth according to the standards of our culture. 

If you can't make more money, learn to live within your means. Then go invest in someone else's life for their sake. There are lots of kids out there with absent fathers who just need to know someone cares about them. Go change someone else's life and find your respect in making the world a better place.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Myself and a lot of others have defied the odds and overcame the barrier that poverty places in front of you. It is difficult, so what? Life is a challenge and why let something like this hold you down? It is not an immovable barrier. It may demand some creative solutions and patience but again others have done it so why not join that club?


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

Don't make your life so complicated.

Just find a woman you like and ask her out. Few women expect you to be a millionaire.

My father was a farm hand when he met my mother. They lived in a communist country and he was not allowed to get a good education for political reasons. After communism had come to an end my family soon made good.

They have often told me they were very happy back then when they had nothing. As has been mentioned before: money does not buy you happiness.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

You should appreciate the things you have more.

You do not have money... but you have a healthy body, don't you? 

Women do not like it when a men always seems to be unhappy about what he does not have but is never happy with the things he has.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

You are never going to attract a suitable partner if you come off as a whiny malcontent. You may have obstacles in front of you but what makes someone remarkable is not that they have the obstacles but that they overcome it. 

Without counseling or self help books, I overcame the trauma of sexual abuse. Nothing quite kills one's confidence quite like that. Not to say that someone should do it my way but I still could have used the excuse of having diminished self confidence due to this. Also, I come from a family with a long history of poverty. No role models or examples to draw from.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

tyler1978 said:


> You are never going to attract a suitable partner if you come off as a whiny malcontent. You may have obstacles in front of you but what makes someone remarkable is not that they have the obstacles but that they overcome it.


^this.

People I respect do not wallow and gripe and b!tch about injustice or dwell on how bad things are or get bitter. They live their lives. Simply moving forward in positive ways - whatever that may be and to whatever end.


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## Wild Mustang (Oct 26, 2013)

inarut said:


> When you lack confidence you tend to isolate yourself in order to feel safe. Your isolation and defense mechanisms are effecting your career success and your social success. The only way to gain confidence is to to put yourself out there and take risks. Start small but step outside your comfort zone and no matter what the results are continue to do it and eventually increase the risk. You have to build yourself up and thE only way to do that is through action. Again.... Start small....


This is great advice. 
Check out meet up.com to find groups with your interests. This would help you to ease into socializing with like-minded people. It also gives you common ground so talking is so much easier.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Your writing skills are much better than many wealthy people I know.


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