# The moral minefield of a boy's dying wish - to have sex.



## Theseus

This was an interesting article about a 15 year old cancer victim in Australia, and his dying wish was that he didn't want to die a virgin. He also was firm that he didn't want his parents to know about it. Hospital staff and friends set him up with a prostitute. 

Personally, I can't blame the kid at all. That would be a hell of a lot more important to me than a trip to Disneyland or something. But I'm amazed by the rage of some people who opposed it. 

This actually happened back in 2001, but someone posted it to Reddit today, and it went viral (like 3000+ comments over there right now). 


The moral minefield of a boy's dying wish


The moral minefield of a boy's dying wish
No Cookies | thetelegraph.com.au ^ | 21dec01 | LUCY CLARK 
Posted on 12/21/2001 1:46:28 PM by LiveFree2000

21dec01
Is it right or wrong to grant a dying teenaged boy his wish to have sex? LUCY CLARK examines a modern ethical dilemma:

A 15 YEAR-OLD boy is terminally ill with cancer. He knows he doesn't have very long to live, and he has a dying wish. It is not to go to Disneyland or to meet his favourite actor, rock or sports star but it is this: he wants to make love to a woman.

But there's a problem – he's in hospital, he doesn't want to talk to his mum and dad about it, and having been sick and in and out of hospital since the age of 12, he has formed no friendships or relationships with girls from his peer group.

The boy, let's call him Jack, simply wants to experience what every testosterone-driven heterosexual teenage boy thinks about, allegedly, every 17 seconds. Sex.

So what does he do?

It sounds like a hypothetical situation, but this story is true and Jack is real. His heartbreaking story about death and desire came to light last month when the child psychologist dealing with Jack wrote a letter to the Radio National program, Life Matters, in which moral dilemmas are discussed by academics.

It's a fascinating topic for academic discussion: how does a minor and the people who care for him tread though the ethical and practical minefield to see that he gets such a wish?

And firstly, should he even be granted his wish?

While many of us might scream reflexively "Yes! Of course!", cautious ethicists may ask questions.

Is a 15 year-old, officially a child, intellectually and emotionally competent to make such a mature decision? Do the parents have a right to know? Should the woman involved be charged with the criminal offence of having sex with a minor? Should a prostitute be involved? Should the hospital staff help to organise something?

All valid questions ripe for discussion, but forget the academic debate. What happened to Jack himself?

Yesterday, the child psychologist – who wishes to remain anonymous – told The Daily Telegraph the rest of the dying boy's story.

He had become involved after a nurse tending Jack – the only person Jack took into his confidence – urged the boy to talk to him.

So Jack spoke to the child psychologist, who specifically deals with children dying of terminal diseases, and this was not the first time the psychologist had heard of such a wish from a teenage boy.

"He had been sick for quite a long period and his schooling was very disrupted, so he hadn't had many opportunities to acquire and retain friends, and his access to young women was pretty poor," said the psychologist.

"But he was very interested in young women and was experiencing that surge of testosterone that teenage boys have."

So Jack and the psychologist had a series of thorough discussions in which they went through every possible permutation of what might happen to him physically and emotionally so that he was "completely prepared" for the prospect of living out his final dream.

Jack's state of mind, he said, was sensible and mature and psychologically, totally competent. As he said: "Terminally ill kids get very wise, very quickly" and Jack had been sick for a long time.

The hospital staff who knew about Jack's wish at first wanted to help, their first reaction being "let's do a whip around and pay for a prostitute" but of course ethical and legal considerations stopped them in their tracks.

The psychologist also had canvassed members of the clergy, and found an interesting response: "It really polarised them, about half said what's your problem? And the other half said [the idea] demeans women and reduces the sexual act to being just a physical one.

"I just saw it as a legitimate request of a young man who wants to experience something that can do no harm."

The psychologist said that with Jack, he rigorously questioned what damage might be done to him as a result of fulfilling his wish, and the answer came up every time: none.

"Everyone's uncomfortable with teenage sex, period," said the psychologist. "Adolescents becoming sexual is enormously confronting, and a lot of people believe that kids shouldn't be sexual. But we are sexual from the womb to the tomb – that's my view.

"But ethics and morals aside, in children dying over a long period of time, there is often a condition we call 'skin hunger'."

This happens when a child, seriously ill and in and out of hospital and receiving medical treatment over a long period, yearns for non-clinical contact because "mostly when people touch them, it's to do something unpleasant, something that might hurt".

"So you ask," said the psychologist, "what was this young man wanting?

"Was he wanting a cuddle?"

Probably yes, but as his illness and its treatment hadn't obliterated his normal teenage urges, he also really wanted that consummate experience.

So without his parents knowing, and completely without the involvement of the hospital staff, and not – it must be stressed – on the hospital's premises, Jack "did engage in the act and it was everything he wished it to be".

"He was very, very happy and only slightly disappointed that it was over quickly."

"The act", his dying wish, was with a sex worker who was "organised by friends who thought it was the right thing to do". All precautions were taken, and the friends made sure the act was fully consensual and involved no abuse or exploitation.

As for the legal ramifications of such a case, "quite clearly the law was broken, but of the people involved, most didn't give a toss," the psychologist said.

And what of the parent's right to know about their son?

Jack simply didn't want to talk to them about it.

He loved them, but they are religious and he didn't want them to know. Anyway, what 15-year-old boy does want to talk to his parents about sex, even under normal circumstances?

There is also legal precedence for a minor of sufficient maturity and intelligence to be given confidential medical treatment but does sex with a prostitute count as treatment?

"Absolutely. It is absolutely part of therapy," said the psychologist, "Because it was what he wanted. People talk about a trip to Disneyland being therapeutic what's the difference? It was what he wanted."

So Jack got what he wanted, and last week, he finally lost his fight with the cancer.


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## larry.gray

I won't respond beyond saying thanks for posting it.... it is a very thought provoking piece.


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## Trojan John

A person should be granted their dying wish, within reason. It's not like having sex would scar him for life...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carpenoctem

I am pondering over:

* If the patient was a minor girl, and a sexual experience was arranged with an adult male sex worker, would it have been seen differently?

* If the boy’s last wish was to have sex with a female doctor in the hospital, and she concedes, would she have been arraigned for sex abuse?
(or if it was a girl and a male doctor, would he have been charged with statutory rape?)


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## Theseus

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> If the boy’s last wish was to have sex with a female doctor in the hospital, and she concedes, would she have been arraigned for sex abuse?
> (or if it was a girl and a male doctor, would he have been charged with statutory rape?)


The prostitute could be charged with underage sex, which is one of the issues they struggled with. I'm sure people would be even less tolerant if it was a 15 yo girl. At the same time, I think a girl that age would be less likely than a boy to want sex as a dying wish.

Here is another article on the same thing, some of the comments here are just over the top hateful:

Dying boy, 15, gets wish: losing virginity


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## LongWalk

Angela's Ashes has a similar episode: girl dying of TB wants sex.

Regarding morality versus legality, we can say that they do not always coincide.


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## DoF

Give the poor kid his wish for god's sakes.....


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## Anon Pink

Have you ever sat at someone bed side and watched them die when they still had a LOT of live left to live? 

He wasn't harmed, the woman wasn't harmed. I see absolutely no problem with this. Well done for his friends who organized his dying wish.

I doubt a girl would have the wish of "to have sex" but would probably wish to fall in love and all that goes with it. But there are always outliers.


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## Maricha75

I know my opinion will be unpopular, but that's ok. I couldn't do it. There is no way that I could be a part of something like this, whether the child was dying or not.


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## Trickster

The article didn't say how old the woman was... I may have missed it if it did...What if she was 17 years old and had sex with him for free? He would still get his wish.

I don't know how many young women would want to give him his dying wish..... I would think there would be many that may want to help him...


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## WadeWilson

My opinion to this is most of these laws are written for the sake of protecting minors from the likes of, corrupting and future mental and health issues. Now, if you're 15 pretty much assured to die before you're an adult... No corruption there.


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## Shoto1984

At 15 that would have been my wish also.


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## Theseus

Maricha75 said:


> I know my opinion will be unpopular, but that's ok. I couldn't do it. There is no way that I could be a part of something like this, whether the child was dying or not.


I am curious, what would be your objection specifically?


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## arbitrator

*I'd have to say that I'm about as religious as they come! Had I been in a position to have helped that kid's wish come true, I likely would have contributed! Telling him only that this was solely on me. The Bible is full of situations that were greatly allowed to happen in order to gauge the kind of reactions and appropriate responses.

If our Lord would want to condemn anyone over this, then please let it be me!

But please rest assured that I would have absolutely no fear in talking to a most-loving God about it!*


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## Maricha75

Theseus said:


> I am curious, what would be your objection specifically?


Mine IS religious objection, and I could not, in good conscience, be party to arranging for anyone to have sex with someone who is not his or her spouse, even if that person was on his or her deathbed. I can understand why most would be ok with it, and even could help for it to happen. That's fine, for them. I just couldn't do it.


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## Theseus

Maricha75 said:


> Mine IS religious objection, and I could not, in good conscience, be party to arranging for anyone to have sex with someone who is not his or her spouse, even if that person was on his or her deathbed. I can understand why most would be ok with it, and even could help for it to happen. That's fine, for them. I just couldn't do it.


Well, I suppose in certain countries/states they could have been quickly married first. Since he didn't have long to live, it wouldn't matter much either way. 

I think though, that his main objective here was physical closeness, and simply being able to touch a naked woman in real life, not sex per se. In fact, as ill as he was, it's likely he wouldn't be able to complete the act. It's interesting what the article said about patients going through "skin hunger", desperate for any touch that was not related to medical treatments. 

It might be hard for some women to understand this. Even when I was 14, all I could think about was sex, and it also would have crushed me if i died before I had the chance to actually touch a woman.


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## TurtleRun

He was 15. I know a lot of teenagers (not personally know them) are sexually active now a days. I mean teenagers have always been sexually active through out humanity. I think at the age of 13/14 boys start thinking about sex right ?


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## Maricha75

Theseus, it's not just "some women" who feel that way about the subject. "Some men" do as well. I was telling my husband about the article, and the boy's wish, and before I could even say anything about what I responded here, he commented very similarly to what I said. I do know quite a few people, IRL, who would say the same thing I did. This is both men AND women. I'm not going to condemn anyone who would choose to enable a child of this boy's age to have sex, under these circumstances. I just could not be a part of it.


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## Theseus

Maricha75 said:


> Theseus, it's not just "some women" who feel that way about the subject. "Some men" do as well. I was telling my husband about the article, and the boy's wish, and before I could even say anything about what I responded here, he commented very similarly to what I said. I do know quite a few people, IRL, who would say the same thing I did. This is both men AND women.


It seems that you and your husband are a bit more squeamish about these things than most people, though. You said recently your husband even averts his eyes whenever a steamy love scene comes up in a R-rated movie. Having said that, I assure you I am NOT trying to be insulting. I do respect your beliefs, however, I'm just saying they are a little unusual these days. 

But yes, it's obvious from the links above that plenty of other people were against the idea, and many for reasons that had nothing to do with religion. Many people objected to keeping his parents out of the loop, some said it "demeans women", although out of every issue here, I think that is the most ridiculous objection in a situation like this.


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## ConanHub

I have an even stronger view than Maricha.

I would be outraged that someone went behind my back with my minor child. Heads would have rolled.

I get seriously pissy when someone oversteps with my kids.

If I heard about the plan to get a 15 year old fvcked by a prostitute behind his parents backs, I would have put the kibosh on the whole thing.


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## Shoto1984

TurtleRun said:


> He was 15. I know a lot of teenagers (not personally know them) are sexually active now a days. I mean teenagers have always been sexually active through out humanity. I think at the age of 13/14 boys start thinking about sex right ?


Oh it starts way before 13/14


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## carpenoctem

[B said:


> TurtleRun [/B]
> He was 15. * I know a lot of teenagers (not personally know them) are sexually active now a days. *I mean teenagers have always been sexually active through out humanity. I think at the age of 13/14 boys start thinking about sex right ?





Shoto1984 said:


> *Oh it starts way before 13/14*



*On the other hand, I know a few 14 year-olds who would fake death to have sex.*



(Forgive me if this trivializes the thread topic).


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## Maricha75

Theseus said:


> It seems that you and your husband are a bit more squeamish about these things than most people, though. You said recently your husband even averts his eyes whenever a steamy love scene comes up in a R-rated movie. Having said that, I assure you I am NOT trying to be insulting. I do respect your beliefs, however, I'm just saying they are a little unusual these days.


It's not about being "squeamish", though, Theseus. It's about adhering to our beliefs. Sometimes we mess up, sometimes we don't. Yes, we know our beliefs are unusual hese days lol. We're used to that. 



Theseus said:


> But yes, it's obvious from the links above that plenty of other people were against the idea, and many for reasons that had nothing to do with religion. Many people objected to keeping his parents out of the loop, some said it "demeans women", although out of every issue here, I think that is the most ridiculous objection in a situation like this.


I do agree that the "demeans women" argument is ridiculous... UNLESS the prostitute was one who was forced into the profession. And, I agree, also, that doing it without informing the parents was wrong. Even if I didn't have the objections for other reasons, that would be one more.


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## Miss Taken

You know, I'm actually okay with it. Pity it had to be with a prostitute though. I also don't think it should have been behind his parent's backs. They should have been informed. Who knows, maybe they would have been okay with it?

I'll be the first to open myself up to a public lashing as a mom but if it were my son's dying wish, I would be okay with it. Wouldn't really want it to be a prostitute though if possible.


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## bandit.45

Miss Taken said:


> You know, I'm actually okay with it. Pity it had to be with a prostitute though. I also don't think it should have been behind his parent's backs. They should have been informed. Who knows, maybe they would have been okay with it?
> 
> I'll be the first to open myself up to a public lashing as a mom but if it were my son's dying wish, I would be okay with it. Wouldn't really want it to be a prostitute though if possible.


I agree with this. 

If I was the boy's dad, I would have hired the youngest and prettiest, high class escort in the city. Doubt I would have even told my wife. (I know folks... tear me a new one...) 

If I had to sit there and watch my boy suffering through a hell on earth of needles, tubes, radiation, chemo, blood, and piss and sh!t .... and I had this chance to make him feel like a man and feel alive just one time before he died? 

You bet I would.


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## Theseus

ConanHub said:


> I have an even stronger view than Maricha.
> 
> I would be outraged that someone went behind my back with my minor child. Heads would have rolled.
> 
> I get seriously pissy when someone oversteps with my kids.
> 
> If I heard about the plan to get a 15 year old fvcked by a prostitute behind his parents backs, I would have put the kibosh on the whole thing.


Not sure if this makes a difference, but in this case, it was only because the boy made it very clear that he didn't want his parents to know about it. Apparently he felt they would also have strong objections. Anyway, that issue is the reason I put this in the family and parenting forum.

I'm not sure how I'd feel if I were his parent. On the one hand, I'd be disappointed if my son felt he couldn't trust me. On the other hand, realistically, how many teenagers tell their parents they are going to have sex? Besides, I think the whole dying thing kind of trumps anyone else's wishes for the time being.


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## coffee4me

If it were my son I would not have a problem with it. 
But as a parent I would like know. I would want to know that he had that experience before he passed and that it fulfilled a dream of his. That it brought some measure of happiness to a very hard life. A life to short to fulfill many dreams.


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## carpenoctem

I guess *if a dying man’s last words are deemed to be the truth even by the law, then his last wish also should have a certain say / sway over the law.*


Viewing this as an experiment in human nature, I would like to know: *Was the woman informed *that this was a dying boy, and it was his last wish? Or was she kept in the dark, so that the boy could have a ‘natural’ experience?


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## coffee4me

Theseus said:


> A 15 YEAR-OLD boy is terminally ill with cancer.
> 
> Jack's state of mind, he said, was sensible and mature and psychologically, totally competent. As he said: "Terminally ill kids get very wise, very quickly" and Jack had been sick for a long time.
> 
> "I just saw it as a legitimate request of a young man who wants to experience something that can do no harm."
> 
> "So you ask," said the psychologist, "what was this young man wanting?


This part stood out to me. The article calls him a boy and the psychologist calls him a young man. I known a lot of 15 year old boys; I only know a few 15 year old young men. There is a difference in maturity, the way they conduct themselves, their ability to handle life stressors. Some kids have to grow up faster than their years.


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## EnjoliWoman

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> I guess *if a dying man’s last words are deemed to be the truth even by the law, then his last wish also should have a certain say / sway over the law.*
> 
> 
> Viewing this as an experiment in human nature, I would like to know: *Was the woman informed *that this was a dying boy, and it was his last wish? Or was she kept in the dark, so that the boy could have a ‘natural’ experience?


Yes, she was informed and did it for free. I'm sure the boy didn't look like a vision of health and he was a minor so she probably had to know - any person with standards (and prostitutes have them, too) wouldn't have wanted to have sex with a sickly looking minor, even if it was out of fear of contracting something. That doesn't make it less genuine, I don't think. Maybe she tried to be just as sexy or a bit more 'sweet' handling the whole thing.


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## Trickster

EnjoliWoman said:


> Yes, she was informed and did it for free. I'm sure the boy didn't look like a vision of health and he was a minor so she probably had to know - any person with standards (and prostitutes have them, too) wouldn't have wanted to have sex with a sickly looking minor, even if it was out of fear of contracting something. That doesn't make it less genuine, I don't think. Maybe she tried to be just as sexy or a bit more 'sweet' handling the whole thing.


That was almost what I stated... Does that change everything... 

Was she an escourt?


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## *LittleDeer*

I wouldn't want my son or daughter to have sex with a prostitute. 
So it's not something I think us OK at all. 

What I think should be encouraged is more support groups and mingling if terminally ill young people, so they gave a chance at meeting someone who genuinely likes them and wants sex with them because of mutual attraction.


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## Theseus

*LittleDeer* said:


> I wouldn't want my son or daughter to have sex with a prostitute.
> So it's not something I think us OK at all.
> 
> What I think should be encouraged is more support groups and mingling if terminally ill young people, so they gave a chance at meeting someone who genuinely likes them and wants sex with them because of mutual attraction.


If he met someone on his own, that would be ideal of course, but probably impossible given the time frame here, and the fact that he had been mostly in hospitals since he was 12. I believe he died just two weeks after this. 

A prostitute is just one option. Honestly, I know a couple women who probably would have done this for him for free, but through an escort service you can probably find someone a little closer to this kid's age. 

How often is a first sexual experience that great? He should have been set up at least twice, IMO.


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## bandit.45

*LittleDeer* said:


> I wouldn't want my son or daughter to have sex with a prostitute.
> So it's not something I think us OK at all.
> 
> What I think should be encouraged is more support groups and mingling if terminally ill young people, so they gave a chance at meeting someone who genuinely likes them and wants sex with them because of mutual attraction.


Good idea. Get on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial

Maricha75 said:


> It's not about being "squeamish", though, Theseus. It's about adhering to our beliefs. Sometimes we mess up, sometimes we don't. Yes, we know our beliefs are unusual hese days lol. We're used to that.


People should adhere to their beliefs. And let other people adhere to theirs. If this boy did not share them, then thankfully he had friends who also did not.


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## TurtleRun

Shoto1984 said:


> Oh it starts way before 13/14


O gee and I have 2 boys. What age does it start ?!!?!?! :scratchhead:


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## Maricha75

NobodySpecial said:


> People should adhere to their beliefs. And let other people adhere to theirs. If this boy did not share them, then thankfully he had friends who also did not.


Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that if someone doesn't believe as I do, then they shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that because of my own beliefs, I couldn't be a part of it, even helping it to occur. Basically, "Please don't ask me to help set this up because I cannot do it. If someone else can do it, that is their choice." I hope no one thought I was saying otherwise. However, even given the circumstances, his parents should have been informed. Not that they could, necessarily, stop him from doing it, but that they at least knew of his wishes and why he felt that way.


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## Theseus

Maricha75 said:


> However, even given the circumstances, his parents should have been informed.


At first glance that seems like common sense.

However, not so much when you look at it a little harder. *How many 15 year-olds actually tell their parents they are going to have sex??* I'm sure this kid just wanted to live as normally as any other 15 yo as possible, and informing the parents would just add more stress to him at a time when things are already hard enough for him.


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## Maricha75

Theseus said:


> At first glance that seems like common sense.
> 
> However, not so much when you look at it a little harder. *How many 15 year-olds actually tell their parents they are going to have sex??* I'm sure this kid just wanted to live as normally as any other 15 yo as possible, and informing the parents would just add more stress to him at a time when things are already hard enough for him.


Not necessarily. Mom and dad know he is dying. Depending on their own, personal convictions, they may have been ok with it... had he said "dad, this is something I really want to experience before I die." and gave the reasons why. They may have agreed to it... but may not have. You ask how many 15-year-olds tell their parents... I know I didn't. At the same time, I wasn't dying. Really, IDK. I mean, I know my own reaction, but I can't speak for the boy's parents. If, as has been suggeted, the boy only wanted to experience a touch unrelated to the poking and prodding from the hospital, needles, etc., I can understand wanting that. If that was the motivation, there are other ways to obtain that than having sex. And, if the parents were informed that THIS was the real objective, they might have been more understanding... not necessarily acreeing to sex, but agreeing to allow him to be touched, caressed, massaged... something other than the clinical touch of medical professionals, and NOT a motherly touch.


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## carpenoctem

*
If I had a son in that situation, I believe I would have agreed *– be it a professional sex worker, or an empathetic woman who was willing.

Why? Because when Death stares in the face, it alters all value systems, standards and standpoints. We / many of us even rationalize what is technically murder (of the self – voluntary euthanasia, or others – involuntary / passive euthanasia). But that is another discussion.

*I also believe, if I had a son, he would have told me his wish.*

But I don’t have children, and when you don’t have children, you know 2000 theories about how to rear them. And then, you have *two children, and no theories.*



A short poll, maybe?
I say *Yes.*


P.S.:
If it was my daughter, and her last wish was to have sex, would I concede? I guess I would, but with *much more reservation. **That’s the inherent / conditioned hypocrisy in me, as a male.*


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## RandomDude

:scratchhead:

I wonder who took the job


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## Shoto1984

TurtleRun said:


> O gee and I have 2 boys. What age does it start ?!!?!?! :scratchhead:


I can only speak for myself and the group I ran with back then, but 10, 11, 12 range. We didn't have the internet and TV was tamer but "men's magazines" were being passed around at that age and there was a lot of immature/silly sex talk. 

If this had been my son and he asked I would have made it happen for him. His desire was natural and normal. I also admit to a double standard if the request was coming from my daughter thought I imagine that to be less likely. 

This has been a thought provoking discussion. Thanks to the OP for the thread.


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## carpenoctem

1


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## OhGeesh

Fine with it  on your deathbed do you want YOUR hopes and dreams to be decided for you?

Sex is fun we all love it and I'm glad he was able to experience it!!


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## Garro

I don't see it as a bad thing.


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## NobodySpecial

Maricha75 said:


> Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that if someone doesn't believe as I do, then they shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that because of my own beliefs, I couldn't be a part of it, even helping it to occur. Basically, "Please don't ask me to help set this up because I cannot do it. If someone else can do it, that is their choice."


Which I think is just terrific. Know thy self. And really, helping someone else should never come at a cost to your own conscience.




> I hope no one thought I was saying otherwise. However, even given the circumstances, his parents should have been informed. Not that they could, necessarily, stop him from doing it, but that they at least knew of his wishes and why he felt that way.


I can't say I agree with you. I know I am an outlier. I have already told my kids people to consider to talk to when they cannot talk to me. I am just a person. I try to raise good, responsible, smart kids. But they don't owe me the same opinions that I have. My son is even younger than the young man in this story. And I have no doubt that he is capable to make a decision such as this for himself.


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## DTO

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> I guess *if a dying man’s last words are deemed to be the truth even by the law, then his last wish also should have a certain say / sway over the law.*
> 
> 
> Viewing this as an experiment in human nature, I would like to know: *Was the woman informed *that this was a dying boy, and it was his last wish? Or was she kept in the dark, so that the boy could have a ‘natural’ experience?


I've spent months in total in a pediatric cancer ward. Trust me, there is no way you can't tell the kid is sick.


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## manticore

Maricha75 said:


> Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that if someone doesn't believe as I do, then they shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that because of my own beliefs, I couldn't be a part of it, even helping it to occur.


Okey I understand, but you are answering as if you are part of the hospital's working force that was requested to help him, now let me ask you as if you were the parent, if your dying son would gather the courage to request you this last dying wish, would you really deny him this experience because of your convictions? would you really be able to see the dissapointment in the face of your kid and let him go knowing that you didn't let him have this experience in his short life? I really really doubt it.

see this is one of those situations in what people say one thing but when facing the real dilema they can easily end do it the opposite (not that that is wrong).

I have an acquaintance that I admire, that in his free time helps families to deal with addictions problems (alcohol, drugs) and he said that he had seen many times parents broking their convictions to get their sons/daughters the alcohol/drugs they need to cease the pain gradually, he said that if something can broke the conviction of one person is the suffering of their offsprings (not with those words but that was the meaning).


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## manticore

I am 100% pro this situation, specially for us men we know that in our teenager phase losing our virginity is a transition that transform us from kids to men (even if now being adults we know that is not truth, that being a man is not defined by it, back then most of us really thought like that) so in the mind of this kid he wanted to experiment that act that is constatly metioned on tv as special as the act that will let him be a man not a kid, even if in his life and demeanor nothing would change, in his mind he would had going throught that transition that made him a man, and even if a long life was denied to him, he could leave this world without that specific regret.

Now that is his the adventage from his point of view, but I also think that other lives were probably touched by this. A prostitute probably don't have many good experiences in her life, she probably face many times drunks, abusers and undesirable people, she probably is treated like and object less than a human most of the time, but for this boy she probably was the special one, probaby if she had one good story to tell and memory to hang on is how she helped this dying boy to have this experience in his life.

for me this was a win win situatiuon.


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## Maricha75

manticore said:


> Maricha75 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that if someone doesn't believe as I do, then they shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that because of my own beliefs, I couldn't be a part of it, even helping it to occur.
> 
> 
> 
> Okey I understand, but you are answering as if you are part of the hospital's working force that was requested to help him, now let me ask you as if you were the parent, if your dying son would gather the courage to request you this last dying wish, would you really deny him this experience because of your convictions? would you really be able to see the dissapointment in the face of your kid and let him go knowing that you didn't let him have this experience in his short life? I really really doubt it.
> 
> see this is one of those situations in what people say one thing but when facing the real dilema they can easily end do it the opposite (not that that is wrong).
> 
> I have an acquaintance that I admire, that in his free time helps families to deal with addictions problems (alcohol, drugs) and he said that he had seen many times parents broking their convictions to get their sons/daughters the alcohol/drugs they need to cease the pain gradually, he said that if something can broke the conviction of one person is the suffering of their offsprings (not with those words but that was the meaning).
Click to expand...

Yes, manticore. Given my convictions on the subject, I would deny that request, even of my own child. You can doubt it all you like, but I would still deny the request. I cannot, in good conscience, be party to something I do not condone, even if it were my own child.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## manticore

Maricha75 said:


> Yes, manticore. Given my convictions on the subject, I would deny that request, even of my own child. You can doubt it all you like, but I would still deny the request. I cannot, in good conscience, be party to something I do not condone, even if it were my own child.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


The reason I have hard time believing it (not because I question your convictions per se), is that I think this is one of those things that if you don't do for the person requesting it, it will probably bother you the rest of your life while in the other hand by doing it you would help the person to have this final but early transition in his life with one regret less in life without consequences (I don't even think an attorney would prosecute the parents even if he have all the evindence at hand that it in fact happened, it will probably damage his/her image and slow down or stop his/her career growing)

in other words if you do it even against your convictions, after seeing the result and the happiness of the teenager, it will not bother you, but by not doing it you will probably bother you the rest of your life.


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## Maricha75

manticore said:


> The reason I have hard time believing it (not because I question your convictions per se), is that I think this is one of those things that if you don't do for the person requesting it, it will probably bother you the rest of your life while in the other hand by doing it you would help the person to have this final but early transition in his life with one regret less in life without consequences (I don't even think an attorney would prosecute the parents even if he have all the evindence at hand that it in fact happened, it will probably damage his/her image and slow down or stop his/her career growing)
> 
> in other words if you do it even against your convictions, after seeing the result and the happiness of the teenager, it will not bother you, but by not doing it you will probably bother you the rest of your life.


If I was arranging for my child to MARRY and then experience this, yes. But no, I would NOT help him (or her) to have sex just because he/she was dying. You are free to believe as you wish, but I still would not do it, not if my child was not married. It has nothing to do with potential legal ramifications. It has everything to do with the fact that my conscience WOULD bother me if I did something, knowing full well it is against what God says to do. That is my point of view: God says not to, I wouldn't do it. Period.


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## RandomDude

I have to say though, if it was my daughter asking for such a thing, I would skin everyone involved alive - especially the pedo

Makes me wonder the responses if the boy was girl instead!


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## Maricha75

RandomDude said:


> I have to say though, if it was my daughter asking for such a thing, I would skin everyone involved alive - especially the pedo
> 
> Makes me wonder the responses if the boy was girl instead!


Mine are the same, whether boy or girl.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## manticore

Maricha75 said:


> If I was arranging for my child to MARRY and then experience this, yes. But no, I would NOT help him (or her) to have sex just because he/she was dying. You are free to believe as you wish, but I still would not do it, not if my child was not married. It has nothing to do with potential legal ramifications. It has everything to do with the fact that my conscience WOULD bother me if I did something, knowing full well it is against what God says to do. That is my point of view: God says not to, I wouldn't do it. Period.


I am going to sound cynic, but for me this bring a whole new set of dilemas.

it seems to me that you are against the sex premarriage not he having sex per se.


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## manticore

RandomDude said:


> I have to say though, if it was my daughter asking for such a thing, I would skin everyone involved alive - especially the pedo
> 
> Makes me wonder the responses if the boy was girl instead!


RD for girls the situation is different, women are gate keepers practically any woman can go out looking for a ONS and you can be sure that she will find someone willing engage in the act.

I mention this because in the same situation but in a girl's case, you probably will find a teeneger of her same age willing to perform the act with her, even would be possible to request this to another teenager boy in the same situation as the girl (with C) and most likely he will say yes.

RD would you skin a teenager with cancer that accepted your daughter request? (I know I would be pissed about it, but really don't see myself taking any actions about it)


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## Maricha75

manticore said:


> I am going to sound cynic, but for me this bring *a whole new set of dilemas*.
> 
> it seems to me that you are against the sex premarriage not he having sex per se.


Dilemmas, in what way? And why would I be against my kids having sex at some point? I do want to have grandchildren one day. I know where babies come from, obviously. Yes, I am against premarital sex (in any form) as well as extramarital sex. If you have seen my posts on various threads, there are quite a few things that are "mainstream" that I do not think are morally acceptable. I don't expect that everyone will agree with me... on any of the subjects, actually.


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## manticore

Maricha75 said:


> Dilemmas, in what way? And why would I be against my kids having sex at some point? I do want to have grandchildren one day. I know where babies come from, obviously. Yes, I am against premarital sex (in any form) as well as extramarital sex. If you have seen my posts on various threads, there are quite a few things that are "mainstream" that I do not think are morally acceptable. I don't expect that everyone will agree with me... on any of the subjects, actually.


don't kill me please , just joking, believe it or not (and I have said it in other posts) I respect and somehow admire those are loyal to their convictions in these subjects (those who waited until married to have their first time, those who waited until they found the right person instead of just giving up to the pressure of their pairs and just do it to get over with it).

what I mean with dilemmas is the following:

so what if the prostitute agrees to marry the boy just to have sex and then divorce after the act (of course with a super prenup).

what if the boy lie to you, tell you that he meet the girl online and have been communicationg for years and they want to marry and have sex before he dies (but in fact she is a prostitute).

I think that in one of these two scenerarios or maybe in both you will be agreeing to his request, and he will end doing exactly what the boy of the article did, having sex prearranged because he is dying (even if there are some differences in the formula).


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## Maricha75

manticore said:


> what I mean with dilemmas is the following:
> 
> so what if the prostitute agrees to marry the boy just to have sex and then divorce after the act (of course with a super prenup).
> 
> what if the boy lie to you, tell you that he meet the girl online and have been communicationg for years and they want to marry and have sex before he dies (but in fact she is a prostitute).
> 
> I think that in one of these two scenerarios or maybe in both you will be agreeing to his request, and he will end doing exactly what the boy of the article did, having sex prearranged because he is dying (even if there are some differences in the formula).


Scenario 1: No. If the sole purpose is to have sex then divorce, no. Marry and stay married until his death (or hers, if it were my daughter). I do agree with the prenup in this instance, although there is nothing anyone could get from us/our children anyway.

Scenario 2: That is questionable. See, we monitor our kids' activities online, so that would be quite difficult for him to pull off. However, if he did meet someone online, and they did talk for years, or even if he had a good friend who was willing to marry and remain married until his death, again with a prenup, we would probably agree to it.

But for my son (or daughter) to prearrange such a meeting would be difficult. And, if hospital workers managed to arrange something like that, I'd file a lawsuit against all involved. Maybe it wouldn't do anything, but maybe it would. Either way, I'd file if anyone did this and my child was involved.


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## MyHappyPlace

I would absolutely condone this! 

My own 15 year old is sexually active and while I am not thrilled with the idea, at least he knew he could be open and honest about it. This probably stems from the fact that I became pregnant with him at 14 so we have a bit of an abnormal parent/child relatnioship. As much as I raised him, he watched me grow up quite a bit too and learned from a lot of the mistakes he witnessed me making. Also because of this, I know that he does not sleep around but has had a steady gf for a few years, they are strict about bc, and God forbid anything DID happen, he would stick around and raise his child. 

Back to the subject on hand, had he been a healthy boy that wished to have sex, find a girl his own age, and not tell his parents, that would be HIS choice. So just because he was so ill he was unable to procure a partner on his own, who are we to tell his parents? 

The other thing to remember is that anyone he told at the hospital was bound by a confidentiality issue and it was his friends who ultimately arranged this. What great friends!


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## turnera

OMG. He just wants to experience an orgasm with a woman. Get a grip, people. There are thousands of other societies in the world, and most of them don't have such hangups. Just let him do what he wants.


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## RandomDude

manticore said:


> RD would you skin a teenager with cancer that accepted your daughter request? (I know I would be pissed about it, but really don't see myself taking any actions about it)


Hmmm... that would be one way to deter my wrath


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