# Sex life with wife is pretty bad and I don't know what to do



## Victor_1992 (Sep 30, 2017)

I’ve been with my wife for 11 years now. I’m 43 and she’s 41 and we have a 4 year old. Our sex life is really taking a toll on me and our marriage.

When we first got together, everything was fine. I would consider us to have a great “normal” sex life. By normal, I mean that I’m not looking for threesomes and making sex tapes. I’m saying sex once or twice a week, mix up positions, she really enjoyed it, and she’d wear something sexy for me once in a while. The only real issue revolved around positions. I tend to premature ejaculate in anything other than her on top. The only way she can reach orgasm usually is by being on top, but she really preferred missionary. So what we’d do is usually have missionary, which she’d enjoy but couldn’t quite reach orgasm. Then every couple weeks she would get on top so she could get hers. It seemed like a system that really worked for us.

Then it started getting worse. Dropped down to once a week (which is still fine with me) but the quality really dropped. She hated to kiss me, she wouldn’t do more than a quick peck on the lips and after she’d wipe her lips off with the back of her hand (even during sex). She stopped giving oral and wouldn’t let me do it to her. She would complain about how she didn’t like it when I touched her but when I told her to tell me or show me how she wanted to do it she’d get upset and say I was ruining the mood. So basically foreplay ended but we were still having missionary sex once a week. She wasn’t orgasming but still seemed to relatively enjoy it. Then a few times a year she would get on top so she could orgasm.

Then we really started hitting rock bottom. She’d initiate sex weekly but more often than not once we started she would just tell me to hurry up and finish, that she didn’t want to have sex but knew she had to. I would tell her that this wasn’t any good, that I didn’t want to have sex unless she wanted it too but she’d just get mad and tell me to hurry up. If I stopped having sex, she’d get mad because she knew this would just repeat the following weekend. Once in a while she would enjoy it (and by enjoy it I mean not get mad during it) but that was about it. Eventually I lost all confidence and was unable to even get an erection anymore. We saw a sex therapist who on our first visit said that we really needed to work on communicating about our sex life and also gave me some exercises to use during masturbation to help build stamina. Well, after the visit anytime I tried talking to her about our sex life she’d say she didn’t want to talk about it and she is very anti-masturbation (she considers it cheating) so the exercises were never used. Our sex life just continued like this. She’d complain that I wanted her to do things she wasn’t comfortable with (like using different positions) and I said I just wanted to be like we were at the beginning and she said that she did things she didn’t like at the beginning because that’s what you do in a new relationship and once you’ve been together a while you stop pretending.

Eventually I turned to pornography and masturbating and when she found out she kicked me out of the house. After a couple weeks, we got back together. I apologized for what I did and she admitted it was her fault too. That she stopped trying as a wife and wouldn’t let it happen again. She even told me never to be afraid to be open with her about what I want, that’s she’s more open-minded than I give her credit for. We had a child and things were great for a couple years, but it’s all starting again.

When our daughter was first born, we developed a routine. Every Sunday, while she was taking a nap we’d take a shower together and have sex. It was predictable but fun and we both really enjoyed it. We resumed our old “usually missionary but occasionally her on top” schedule and every couple months we’d take a day off work while our daughter was at daycare and have a lot of fun together. Anytime we dropped our daughter off at her parents for a night out, our first stop would be back to our house so we could have sex. Once our daughter stopped taking naps, we had to stop the showers together. Then it became harder and harder to find time to have sex, but we’d usually try to find a way each week. 

Now her attitude towards sex is getting worse again. She’s back to not kissing me. She’s very hit or miss. Sometimes she’ll be into it (by this I mean missionary with no foreplay, but she’ll wrap her legs around me and talk dirty) but other times she’ll just tell me to hurry up and finish. Sometimes we’ll have a night out and she’ll want me to rush to the house so we can have sex, other times we’ll drop the kid off at her parents and I’ll ask her if she wants to go home and she’ll just roll her eyes. Our version of foreplay is every other week or so, I’ll give her a full body massage. Sometimes after she’ll be in the mood to have sex, but other times she she'll get mad at me for trying to have sex with her. The problem with all of these situations is I feel like I’m walking on eggshells afraid of starting something when she isn’t in the mood. I feel like a caged lion (full of sexual frustration and ready to pounce) and a beaten housecat (terrified to make any kind of move for fear of upsetting her). We are down to having sex about twice a month, which I could deal with if it was at least good sex, but more often than not it isn’t. I'm terrified to try instigating sex, usually I'll wait until she asks me if I want to just so I don't have to worry about getting yelled at. She’s also always making snide comments about how she never orgasms (I think she had one at the beginning of the year). I totally understand her frustration, but don’t know what to do about it. The only way she really orgasms with me is when she is on top, and she just refuses to do that position now. 

When we do have good sex, I’ll tell her how much I missed it and she’ll get mad and say she’s doing the best she can but she just doesn’t have the time or the energy. Thing is, she recently returned to the gym. She goes 5 times a week for an hour each day and it’s a half hour drive each way, so she’s spending 10 hours a week at the gym. I know I should think this way, but I can’t help but feel jealous that she finds the time to spend 40 hours a month working out, but can’t find more than 5 minutes a month to have sex with me.

I was dealing with this for quite a while, but recently kind of hit my breaking point. My birthday was last month and that was the one day where, every single year, she went all out. We had a routine the last couple years, we’d take a day together while my daughter was at daycare and go back to the house. She wear lingerie and really go all out and every single time she would orgasm without fail. Last year I asked her if we could do it again and she rolled her eyes, but then we did it and once again she really enjoyed herself. Well, this year I didn’t say anything about it in advance hoping she would bring it up and she never did. Then we were both supposed to take the day off work but she told me that there was no reason for her to take the day off and she went in. On my birthday, I think she was inviting me to take a shower with her (she cleared her throat while she was in there, which is sometimes her way of calling me without alerting our daughter) but the beaten housecat was afraid to go in there because occasionally I mistakenly thought she was inviting me and she got really pissed when I tried to join her. Then at the end of the night, she literally said “are we going to do this” and just laid there while we had sex. I asked her to touch me while we were having sex and she refused. She literally just laid there with her arms down at her sides and refused to touch me

This killed me inside. No matter how bad things got between us, she always gave me this day. It wasn’t just that she did everything to me that I wanted done, but the fact that she always got into it and orgasmed as well. I honestly spent the first 6 months after my birthday fantasizing how great that night was, and the next 6 months counting down for it to happen again. And this year I got nothing but horrible sex that did nothing but make me feel guilty.

The other breaking point moment occurred a couple days ago. Our daughter has never spent that night over at anyone’s house. We've gone to a couple weddings and I've always asked her to let our daughter spend the night at her parents. I figured it would be the perfect opportunity to get dressed up, have a few drinks and have fun dancing on the dance floor then come home and have great sex. She never wants to, then when we go to the house after the wedding before picking up our daughter she just wants to have a quickie so her mom doesn't have to wait up for us. One time she even agreed and wore special lingerie under her dress and a pair of boots that really turn me on. She teased me in the car the whole way home, but then when we got home she decided she couldn't leave our daughter overnight, so we just ran in for our normal quickie. Our anniversary is next month and I told her that for my present I wanted her parents to keep our daughter overnight, and we’d get a room at the local casino. I told her we could get all dressed up, go out for a fancy meal at the nice restaurant, then go out to the nightclub and dance. I figured it would be the one night where she could let her hair down, have a few drinks and be my wife all night rather than worry about becoming a mom again when we got home. She flat out refused and said this sounded like a horrible idea.

I can’t take this anymore. The fear of being able to talk to her without her getting upset. The lack of intimacy between us (I love having sex, but need her to kiss me as well). I’m also getting tired of her attitude towards me wanting to have sex. I realize it’s hard when you both work full time and have kids to always find time to have sex. When things were good between us, there were times when we were too busy to have sex, but she at least made me feel like she missed it too and couldn’t wait for us to have time together. Now she makes it feel like a chore, like she doesn’t want to do it so I just have to be happy with whatever scraps she’s willing to throw me. I’m also sick of her not enjoying sex but don’t know how to stop this. I’ve asked her in the past to tell me or show me what she wants and that just gets her mad. I’ve also asked her to climb on top of me so she can orgasm and she doesn’t want to do it. I’m reaching to point where I need to talk to her about this, and if she gets upset and refuses to talk to me afterwards I’ll have to take the risk.

I am going to give her three more chances. Next week we are going on vacation and rented a house with a hot tub, and usually vacation is the other time where she is willing to cut loose. If we have some fun adult time together on vacation, I’m willing to cut her some slack and just deal with it. Then in a few weeks we both have the day off and my daughter will be in daycare, so I’ll see if she’s willing to have fun with me that day. Then I want to see if she gives any sort of effort on our anniversary. If none of these happen, I’ll have to talk to her in hopes of repairing our relationship while acknowledging the fact that it may destroy it.

I’m not necessarily looking for advice, although any advice would be gladly received. I’m just looking mostly to vent, as I have never expressed what I wrote here and now that I found this site I used it as my safe space to finally get this off my chest.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

> I said I just wanted to be like we were at the beginning and she said that she did things she didn’t like at the beginning because that’s what you do in a new relationship and once you’ve been together a while you stop pretending.


Bait and switch. Absolutely horrible for your W to do this. Personally, I would look to move on to a person who does not bait and switch.

Advise your W you are quiting your job. You only pretended to want to support her or be part of the financial support until marriage. You only did it because she liked it but you didn't. Then quit. You don't want to pretend anymore.


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## Victor_1992 (Sep 30, 2017)

I can't just leave her because we have a kid together, but this did really bother me. I would understand if we were doing all kinds of wild things. But I'm literally talking about her going from wearing her nice matching bra and panties when we'd have date to wearing the same dirty bra she wore all week at work. Or giving me more than a quick peck on the lips when I went in for a kiss.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

If you don't enforce any consequences, then your three chances are a joke. Nothing is going to change without rocking the boat. You need to be willing to lose the relationship if you're going to save it. And if you're not willing to rock the boat, then your best bet is to quit complaining and learn to live with your choices happily.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

read mmslp


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

First thing - have you ruled out medical / drug issues? Are you both healthy? Is she on ANY medications? Some can have a huge effect on sex drive. (especially birth control and anti-depressants).

If there are no medical issues, have you been able to talk to her about this? Is she just lacking interest in sex in general? Lacking interest in you? Not enjoying sex with you? Try not to be confrontational, just try to learn what is going on her mind so you can figure out what steps to take next.


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## Victor_1992 (Sep 30, 2017)

To be honest with you, I didn't want to say anything until my birthday was past. Like I said, that was the one day a year I could count on so I wanted to see what she would do. The way she handled it killed me because it made me realize how far it has gone.

I know my wife and saying in advance "I want to do this or that" will just make her not want to do it. So I've dropped hints about what I want to do on vacation. I rented a house with a privacy fence and private pool and am really hoping she'd be willing to go skinny dipping with me, but I'd be happy with her either just swimming alone with me in the pool so we can kind of mess around. 

So now the ball is in her court. I'm going to try on vacation, then again when we get home. If she handles both poorly, I'm might go a little bit stronger on our anniversary. After that, I'm going to have to talk to her and deal with the consequences.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Victor_1992 said:


> To be honest with you, I didn't want to say anything until my birthday was past. Like I said, that was the one day a year I could count on so I wanted to see what she would do. The way she handled it killed me because it made me realize how far it has gone.
> 
> I know my wife and saying in advance "I want to do this or that" will just make her not want to do it. So I've dropped hints about what I want to do on vacation. I rented a house with a privacy fence and private pool and am really hoping she'd be willing to go skinny dipping with me, but I'd be happy with her either just swimming alone with me in the pool so we can kind of mess around.
> 
> So now the ball is in her court. I'm going to try on vacation, then again when we get home. If she handles both poorly, I'm might go a little bit stronger on our anniversary. After that, I'm going to have to talk to her and deal with the consequences.


Again, this plan is destined to fail. You'd have way more success if you decided to do this vacation without your wife. Go someplace alone or with your kid. You need to pull back from her in a big way. You're way too much of a sure thing and she's taking you for granted. These hints you're dropping have got to be looking pretty pathetic to her at this point. But leaving her behind for a weekend in Vegas won't look that way. Leave her alone to think a bit about what you're up to. Play 27 holes a day and don't call...


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## Victor_1992 (Sep 30, 2017)

uhtred said:


> First thing - have you ruled out medical / drug issues? Are you both healthy? Is she on ANY medications? Some can have a huge effect on sex drive. (especially birth control and anti-depressants).
> 
> If there are no medical issues, have you been able to talk to her about this? Is she just lacking interest in sex in general? Lacking interest in you? Not enjoying sex with you? Try not to be confrontational, just try to learn what is going on her mind so you can figure out what steps to take next.


Technically we are both healthy but she has gained quite a bit of weight since we've been together and it really bothers her which I know doesn't help things. She's on birth control, but since this has been an ongoing situation and she's used several different pills I don't think it's that.

Part of it is she does not enjoy having sex with me. She's only had one orgasm this year (she only can when she's on top and she doesn't want to do this anymore) and hates when I touch her (but she won't tell or show me what she likes). I think the biggest problem is she just won't lose herself in the moment. It's hard to explain but it's almost like she's focusing on the act and what we are doing rather than enjoying it. For example, we've had times where she totally got into me giving oral, but if I try she'll immediately tell me to stop then not want my face anywhere near her because now I smell like her. When she's into it, she's totally into it, but otherwise she's too worried about getting sweaty, how she'll smell after, etc.

I also know that she'll say she's too tired and doesn't have the energy, but right or wrong, I have an issue with this because she has the time or energy to work out 10 hours a week. That's why I'm waiting until after vacation and our special days together to say something. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt when we are at home and working, but after what happened on my birthday there's no excuse for us not to have fun on those days. I want this to work and will try talking to her about it and find out exactly what I can do to make it better.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Are you able to talk? What you want is reasonable - a happy passionate sex life that you both enjoy. If she wants the same, even if she doesn't know how to get there, you have a start, and something to work on.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Your W needs IC and rather badly!

That is not a marriage ~ it's a sham with you being the unceremonious victim!*


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## Victor_1992 (Sep 30, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Are you able to talk? What you want is reasonable - a happy passionate sex life that you both enjoy. If she wants the same, even if she doesn't know how to get there, you have a start, and something to work on.


She’s very hit or miss, which is part of the problem. For example, after our falling out a few years ago I’ve stopped masturbating. I know she works a ton of hours and sometimes we are just too busy to have sex. Well, one thing we came up with is that occasionally (handful of times a year) I’ll masturbate alongside of her. We are already lying in bed with her and she’ll take off her shirt and press her body up against me and run her fingernails on me while I take care of myself. It really seems like a perfect solution. I get the relief I need while having her next to me with some sort of physical bond between us, and since she is tired she doesn’t have to do much besides lay down next to me. Well, sometimes I can ask her if we can do this and she’ll get into it (and once said “Screw that” and we just had sex). But other times I’ll ask and she’ll act like I asked if we could have a threesome with her best friend.

Sometimes I can talk to her about sex and she’ll take it ok. Other times she’ll get upset and say that’s all I ever want to talk about (which is ironic since part of the problem is she never wants to talk about it). Or she’ll say that she’s doing the best she can. 

Really, what I need to talk to her about is what exactly she wants in bed. It may be awkward, but she can’t just keep complaining about how I touch her. Let me know how she wants me to touch her.


Like I said, I know that this has gone on long enough. Eventually we are just going to grow more resentful towards one another and I want this to work out.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Victor_1992 said:


> I can't just leave her because we have a kid together, but this did really bother me. I would understand if we were doing all kinds of wild things. But I'm literally talking about her going from wearing her nice matching bra and panties when we'd have date to wearing the same dirty bra she wore all week at work. Or giving me more than a quick peck on the lips when I went in for a kiss.


So to be clear - you can't leave her because you have a kid together BUT she's essentially left her commitment to you and the marriage in spite of having a kid together? Does that seem fair to you?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

You will probably need to resort to scheduling things and just work together that way to help your marriage improve. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## hope4family (Sep 5, 2012)

What to do? Divorce not an option. Get a hobby?

Once you got a hobby outdoors. Another woman will come along. You will either emotionally cheat or both physically and emotionally cheat, and she will divorce you because "how could you." 

This is a perfect win win for her. The longer you are together, the better the potential alimony, the less she has to worry about taking care of a child and all the free babysit hours for her gym trysts. 

I'm mostly being full of moxy. Because the other option is you remain faithful to someone who doesn't want you. Will you divorce the day your kid turns 18?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

First set of changes to make in your life to address unsatisfying sex life:

Hit the gym frequently. Work out until exhaustion. Then go home and collapse into bed.
Eat healthy. If you work out and eat healthy, you will get into better shape. That is a plus for you even if things never improve with your current wife.
Pay attention to your clothes, hair, grooming, etc. Wear cologne. So you feel good that you are taking care of yourself. It is not a wasteful indulgence. You deserve it.
Be a great Dad. Not for your wife. For you and your kids.
Stop doing things in the hope she will notice and do something "nice" for you. Which to you means something sexual. Never works and just causes you frustration.

Second set of changes to make:
Continue doing all items in set #1.
Go out without her. Best if it is with guys doing guy activities. Join a bowling league, steady poker night, happy hour, Monday night football at a local tavern, etc.
Cut further back on what you do to be helpful to her. When she asks for help, be too busy. Tell her you will get to it after you do something important. At this stage, cutting you toenails is more important than anything she wants you to do except save the kids from imminent drowning, fire, etc.

If she complains you are not as helpful as you used to be, agree with her. Tell her you aren't feeling as motivated to be helpful as you used to be. Ask her if she can think of a way to help motivate you. When she accuses you of being a disgusting sex-crazed pig, agree with her. Then ask her whether she wants to get down and dirty or if she wants the marriage to continue to deteriorate.

You aren't forcing her to do anything. She gets to choose exactly how she wishes to behave. But you are done shielding her from the natural consequences of her choices. She chooses. You hand her the consequences she chose. Maybe she wishes she had a husband who didn't want sex. Sorry, she didn't marry that guy.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Victor_1992 said:


> She’s very hit or miss, which is part of the problem. For example, after our falling out a few years ago I’ve stopped masturbating. I* know she works a ton of hours and sometimes we are just too busy to have sex.* Well, one thing we came up with is that occasionally (handful of times a year) I’ll masturbate alongside of her. We are already lying in bed with her and she’ll take off her shirt and press her body up against me and run her fingernails on me while I take care of myself. It really seems like a perfect solution. I get the relief I need while having her next to me with some sort of physical bond between us, and since she is tired she doesn’t have to do much besides lay down next to me. Well, sometimes I can ask her if we can do this and she’ll get into it (and once said “Screw that” and we just had sex). But other times I’ll ask and she’ll act like I asked if we could have a threesome with her best friend.
> 
> Sometimes I can talk to her about sex and she’ll take it ok. Other times she’ll get upset and say that’s all I ever want to talk about (which is ironic since part of the problem is she never wants to talk about it). Or she’ll say that she’s doing the best she can.
> 
> ...


People tend to make time for things they actually want to make time for.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It sounds like your wife is grossed out by you. Wiping her mouth with the back of her hand if you share just a peck kiss? Refusal to kiss you? Not wanting to touch you or be touched? Rolling her eyes at you?

I fail to understand why you would remain living with this person.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

Livvie said:


> It sounds like your wife is grossed out by you. Wiping her mouth with the back of her hand if you share just a peck kiss? Refusal to kiss you? Not wanting to touch you or be touched? Rolling her eyes at you?
> 
> I fail to understand why you would remain living with this person.


Agreed.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

It sounds like she needs to be turned on more in general. Not just foreplay, but more a part of your lifestyle. Read the Married Man's Sex Life Primer (MMSLP). That's a good guide for how to make your relationship more flirty/sexual in nature, and will likely make her more receptive to sex. It sounds like once she can get sufficiently in the mood, she's all for it. But before that point, she's not into it at all. So if you can make her feel more sexual throughout the day, she'll likely genuinely want it.

But you can't just start flirting with her when your relationship is in this state. You'll have to start thoughtfully so that she's open to it. I would suggest starting to work out and dressing sharp. When she asks why you're doing that, be vague and say you want to get in better shape or that you want to look better at work so you get more responsibility. This should put a little bit of mystery back in your relationship and keep you more on her mind. Then after a while, text her during the day and lead the conversation around to your workouts and allude to how the testosterone has gotten you all worked up. Hopefully stuff like this can get her thinking about it more and be more willing. It sounds like she initiates sometimes, so she may take it from there. Don't expect things to be fixed all at once. There will be lots of little steps and they won't all be forward.

Also, be sure to show her how much sex makes you happy. Don't be too direct by saying things like "Having sex makes me happy." Rather, be in a really good mood the days after you have sex and be tender and affectionate without it having to lead to sex. This way she thinks of sex as something which makes your world better and soul happy rather than a weekly chore to knock off the list.

....

However, there's a good chance things won't really get better. If you don't see improvement after a significant time, don't hang on forever hoping it will get better. If it doesn't get better, it won't get better. Don't waste your life being depressed and allowing your child to think it's okay to be in a passionless relationship.


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## Primrose (Mar 4, 2015)

How is your physique? Have you packed on some weight or become sloppy in your appearance/hygiene in the past few years? 

Her not wanting to be touched or kissed by you screams that she is no longer sexually attracted to you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In your current state, if you were to become single or widowed tomorrow, would you be able to attract other women of her caliber or better? Would you be able to get dates with women who are at least as attractive as her? 

If the honest answer is no/probably not or 'I'm not sure.' Then you need to do some work on yourself.

Assuming she does not have some kind of medical or hormonal issue and assuming she is not waist deep in a long term affair, this is clearly an attraction and compatibility issue.

If you take an honest self-assessment in the mirror and no other woman of her caliber would dig you either, then you can't expect her to want you if no one else would either.

If the honest answer is,yes, other women would find you desirable, then you have other options.

Either way, it is in your best interests to become as attractive as a man that you can and that will either trigger some of her attraction or will give you the option of dissolving the marriage and taking up with someone else and allow her to have her life of celibacy or her one orgasm a year if she can find someone to let her get on top once a year. 

Realistically, I don't know if this can be turned around without you completely transforming yourself into someone else. 

Some people are simply duds in bed. I also kind of suspect Bait and Switch also. This seems too over the top to just be a garden variety busy mother. Even busy mothers want some cuddling and affection and an occasional orgasm now and then if they are even remotely attracted to their husbands.

Assuming you aren't some kind of Quasimoto, you'd have a better batting average and better quality sex picking up fat drunk chicks that just broke up with their boyfriends in the corner tavern.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

So you're giving your wife 3 chances to have enthusiastic sex with you.

If she fails, which is likely since she doesn't know about your covert contract, then what are you going to do?


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

All good advice in here, but I think this is the best:



WorkingOnMe said:


> Again, this plan is destined to fail. You'd have way more success if you decided to do this vacation without your wife. Go someplace alone or with your kid. You need to pull back from her in a big way. You're way too much of a sure thing and she's taking you for granted. These hints you're dropping have got to be looking pretty pathetic to her at this point. But leaving her behind for a weekend in Vegas won't look that way. Leave her alone to think a bit about what you're up to. Play 27 holes a day and don't call...


Women (and perhaps all people) are at their best when they're trying to win you over. Right now she figures she already has you. Let her see that you're something that can easily slip away if she doesn't stay on her toes. Instead of the 27 holes, work on taking off the extra weight, building muscle, and dressing better.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'd venture to say that your wife is not interested in sex because it is more work than it is worth to her. You're getting satisfied 100% of the time and she is 25% of the time. 

Work on some techniques to delay ejaculation (mental or physical) and see if she is willing to introduce a vibrator into the sex play. 

Demanding that she start agreeing to more of the very same thing she is avoiding will not get you very far. Not to be a debbie-downer, but not many women would be gung-ho for PE. Read up on women's anatomy and what happens when a woman is prepped for orgasm and it doesn't happen because the equipment lost its steam.


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## Victor_1992 (Sep 30, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> I'd venture to say that your wife is not interested in sex because it is more work than it is worth to her. You're getting satisfied 100% of the time and she is 25% of the time.
> 
> Work on some techniques to delay ejaculation (mental or physical) and see if she is willing to introduce a vibrator into the sex play.
> 
> Demanding that she start agreeing to more of the very same thing she is avoiding will not get you very far. Not to be a debbie-downer, but not many women would be gung-ho for PE. Read up on women's anatomy and what happens when a woman is prepped for orgasm and it doesn't happen because the equipment lost its steam.


I agree with everything you say, but there isn’t a very easy solution. Excuse me if I ramble on a little here, but for some reason you strike me as someone who might be able to give me some sort of good advice.

With other women this was never an issue. I was always a huge fan of foreplay, so I made sure they were always satisfied before we even started having sex. And PE was never really an issue in the past.

My wife is very complex, however. It’s almost like, when it comes to having sex, she has 4 distinctly different personalities and I’ve been with all four. Wife one is a madwoman in the bedroom, she cares nothing about getting off and getting me off. She’ll let me go down on here, touch her all over her body and will touch herself and doesn’t care about anything but the sex that is going on. This wife orgasms every single time. Wife two enjoys sex but is more subdued. She is really horny but doesn’t like foreplay (or at least anything that I do to her). I’ll try touching her and she’ll tell me that she doesn’t like the way it feels but she wants to have sex and enjoys it, she just can’t orgasm. The third wife doesn’t necessarily want to have sex, but also doesn’t mind having sex. It’s more like “I know we are married and need to have sex, but I’m not really in the mood but I’m willing”. She’s not upset we are having sex, just not super enthusiastic. The fourth wife hates me for wanting to have sex with her. Right now she usually bounces between 2 and 3 with 4 showing up more often. I want wife 1 and 2 and occasionally 3.

Now the problem is how do I do this. Usually wife one just appears, I don’t have to do anything to get her in this mood and when she’s in this mood I can’t do anything wrong. The problem is all of the other times. For one thing, she is normally sexually uptight. She’s never masturbated and refuses to own a sex toy. I’ve offered to try different things with her (my ego isn’t that weak, I’d rather her use something else to help her get there than not get there at all) but she refuses. I’ve asked her repeatedly to show or tell me exactly how to touch her and she refuses and says that kills the mood. She also very sensitive in terms of, if I’m touching her and she really likes it and I accidentally move my finger just a hair or change the speed/pressure in just the slightest, she loses the pleasure. 

I admit the biggest problem is that I can’t get her to orgasm. She orgasms almost every time when she is on top, but she likes it better when I’m on top. She also likes it best when I am pumping hard (which of course leads to me finishing faster). In the past, we’ve used condoms so I last longer so she can orgasm. I hate condoms, but her pleasure is the most important thing to me so I’m willing to wear them. But she hates having sex with condoms (she says they make her itchy) and refuses. So there are a couple options for her to reach orgasm but she doesn’t want to try them. She’s mentioned in the past that she’d rather have sex she really enjoys but can’t orgasm from than orgasm from sex that’s not what she really wants. So I really don’t know what to do.

The reason I said I’m giving her those three last options is because there’s no excuse for us not to enjoy one another in bed. In real life, between work and the kid we are tired, there’s stuff to do around the house, etc. But these three days there’s really no reason why we can’t enjoy sex. If we do have really enjoyable sex, I’ll realize that it’s just hard to find the time at home and while I still want to work at it, it’s not as dire. If this continues on these three times, however, something needs to change. I’m going to have to talk to her and tell her that we can’t continue like this. She’s going to have to tell me or show me exactly what she wants me to do. We’ll have to set time apart for one another (currently it always seems like something needs to be done around the house or we are too tired from all the stuff we did around the house). I am (and always have been) willing to do whatever she likes in the bedroom, but she needs to meet me halfway.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy for yourself, and give this link to your wife - https://forgivenwife.com/is-his-heart-battered/

Is your wife seeing someone else? Seems to be spending a lot of time at the gym??

Was there any abuse in your wife's past? https://forgivenwife.com/unbearable-lessons/

Your wife sounds alot like mine. It wasn't until I was halfway out the door that she decided to work on her issues.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Unfortunately you have been gas lighted by her. I truly believe that when sex goes stone cold dry in a marriage barring the exception of a medically diagnosed issue than the possibility of the refuser being engaged in an affair should always be discretly looked into.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Victor_1992 said:


> My wife is very complex, however. It’s almost like, when it comes to having sex, she has 4 distinctly different personalities and I’ve been with all four. Wife one is a madwoman in the bedroom, she cares nothing about getting off and getting me off. She’ll let me go down on here, touch her all over her body and will touch herself and doesn’t care about anything but the sex that is going on. This wife orgasms every single time. Wife two enjoys sex but is more subdued. She is really horny but doesn’t like foreplay (or at least anything that I do to her). I’ll try touching her and she’ll tell me that she doesn’t like the way it feels but she wants to have sex and enjoys it, she just can’t orgasm. The third wife doesn’t necessarily want to have sex, but also doesn’t mind having sex. It’s more like “I know we are married and need to have sex, but I’m not really in the mood but I’m willing”. She’s not upset we are having sex, just not super enthusiastic. The fourth wife hates me for wanting to have sex with her. Right now she usually bounces between 2 and 3 with 4 showing up more often. I want wife 1 and 2 and occasionally 3.


Wife #1 = Honeymoon period 
Wife #2, #3, & #4 = The progression of being married

STOP thinking about getting #1 back, as that will not happen! What you can work on us progressing to discovering your wife's #5, #6, & #7 sexual personalities as your marriage continues to progress. They will be different than the first four and I can not tell you if they will be good or problematic. Generally speaking, one of these new personalities will be one that admits there are some issues, will open up about what she needs from you in and out of the bedroom, and will take more responsibility for herself as opposed to just being passive.

How do you progress? Step number #1 is to realize wife #1 is part of your marriage that has passed. As years pass you two are no longer the people you were when you first got married, as life progresses each of you through a constant series of changes. *You must keep moving forwards and stop trying to put your marriage and personalities in reverse. *

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

OP,

Why do you let her hate you with her vagina?
Why do you continue to accept duty and hate sex?

The answer is that she's probably not into you. As far as the decent sex happening occasionally. Is it really out of the realm of possibility that she us using you as a masturbation aid the few times she does want to have sex?

If you don't think some women can think this way, you are wrong.

Just throwing that out there.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Your wife isn't complex. You just don't turn her on. You haven't answered the questions about your physical shape, but that can be a physical turn off. You also don't have a very dominant personality in bed which can be a mental turn off. Most women don't like guys having to ask what they should do in bed or what they can do to give their wife an orgasm. It's just too passive and not exciting.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> Your wife isn't complex. You just don't turn her on. ...


It is better to say that he can't be held responsible for making his wife happy. She has to be responsible for her own happiness and then choose him as the person to share that with in an intimate way. 

Now it is true that his behaviors as a husband can be a turn off for her. And to some degree he can get her turned on, but that has to be done by him taking responsibility for his own happiness and then sharing that with her. Not him insisting on needing good sex in order to be happy and making her responsible for that. 

Badsanta


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I agree @badsanta 

He can't be held responsible for his wife's happiness, but he does need to recognize that he doesn't excite her. He can't control her one bit, but he can control himself. And, a lot of what he does could influence her opinions of him. That's why standard advice in these situations is to get into good shape, get a social life, and be successful and make something of yourself. That essentially makes you a desirable man and if your wife still doesn't desire you then you are 10 steps ahead if you decide to divorce her and find a replacement that's a major upgrade.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Bananapeel
Most women don't like guys having to ask what they should do in bed or what they can do to give their wife an orgasm. It's just too passive and not exciting.*

OK, that works with some women but I know a woman, if I try something change things or to take the lead, it might work or she might just resent me even more.

My stance is for the guy to come up with ideas and ask questions with the new ideas in mind.

Some people (mostly women) want to be the gate keeper and or have veto power. The problem is the person with the veto power rarely likes anything and the idea person gets shot down most of the time and does all or most of the work until he/ she gets tired of it all and checks out of the relationship and finds other things to do. This is a lose - lose situation. Then the gate keeper person says the partner is having a mid life crisis.

In some situations there was so much dysfunctional FOO, preconceived beliefs, and religious training and daily stress, it is no wonder people are messed up.

I know asking all of the time seems like the asker can't read clues but when little seems to influence the recipient positive expressions and the significant other is mostly not satisfied with the leaders choices, then the firs step is asking what they like or don't like. After that doesn't work, some people check out of the relationship.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Handy said:


> * Bananapeel
> Most women don't like guys having to ask what they should do in bed or what they can do to give their wife an orgasm. It's just too passive and not exciting.*


OMG I agree with that and it gets worse...

*These same women do NOT want you to try and get ideas from what you just saw in porn. And you may experience armageddon should you seek advice from another woman.*

It is kind of like being locked in a room with an advanced algebraic quiz. You are not allowed to use last year's quiz to study. You can't ask for help from the person that gave you the quiz. You can not cheat by using the answers from someone else's quiz. You have to solve it all on you own, and then don't get too excited once you get the correct answers, because then you better be ready to show your work with a clear explanation of how you solved things to demonstrate that you just did not get lucky guessing answers.

I'll offer the OP one tip... If your wife tells you something she DOES NOT like, just reverse the equation and you will then easily know what she DOES like. That alone will not solve the problem, but it will help you check your work! 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

The traditional thinking (not that I completely agree with it) is women use sex to get commitment and men use commitment to get sex. So, basically a woman is only allowed to be gatekeeper of sex if men give up their role as gatekeeper to the relationship. 

My thought is that if a woman wants to be involved with me, then there is no gatekeeper mentality or there is no relationship. That eliminates the problems. The guys that have problems are the ones that accept their wife's bad behavior without doing anything about it. I was with my wife for nearly 20 years (dating + marriage) and never had the problems that I read about here. The very few times that my wife tested me with that crap I explained that she was free to do whatever she wanted, but I wasn't going to stick around in a relationship that I wasn't happy with and keep all the other same relationship terms.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> The traditional thinking (not that I completely agree with it) is women use sex to get commitment and men use commitment to get sex. So, basically a woman is only allowed to be gatekeeper of sex if men give up their role as gatekeeper to the relationship.
> 
> My thought is that if a woman wants to be involved with me, then there is no gatekeeper mentality or there is no relationship....


If your using "traditional" thinking, that would also imply that men should be able to easily outsmart their wife regarding this said relationship of gatekeeping/commitment. @Bananapeel have you never pretended that YOU are the gatekeeper of sex in your relationships just out of curiosity to see what happens?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Bananapeel said:


> The traditional thinking (not that I completely agree with it) is women use sex to get commitment and men use commitment to get sex. So, basically a woman is only allowed to be gatekeeper of sex if men give up their role as gatekeeper to the relationship.
> 
> My thought is that if a woman wants to be involved with me, then there is no gatekeeper mentality or there is no relationship. That eliminates the problems. The guys that have problems are the ones that accept their wife's bad behavior without doing anything about it. I was with my wife for nearly 20 years (dating + marriage) and never had the problems that I read about here. The very few times that my wife tested me with that crap I explained that she was free to do whatever she wanted, but I wasn't going to stick around in a relationship that I wasn't happy with and keep all the other same relationship terms.


I agree.

Not that my life I is perfect by any means but I could never be in a relationship with a lot of these people. 

I don't think I'd last a week with some of them.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

badsanta said:


> If your using "traditional" thinking, that would also imply that men should be able to easily outsmart their wife regarding this said relationship of gatekeeping/commitment.
> 
> I don't understand your "outsmart their wife" comment. This isn't about intelligence, but about boundaries. My relationship boundaries include having a good sex life and if I don't get that, then I am not going to stay in the relationship. The only trick (if you call it that) is that I make sure that I'm a desirable guy so that they don't want me to leave.
> 
> ...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> If your using "traditional" thinking, that would also imply that men should be able to easily outsmart their wife regarding this said relationship of gatekeeping/commitment. @Bananapeel have you never pretended that YOU are the gatekeeper of sex in your relationships just out of curiosity to see what happens?


I don't know where you are getting any of that. 

I don't know of a single man alive that can outsmart any woman in matters of relationships, sex or love.

If someone, man or woman, has a healthy, active sex life as a required component of an ongoing relationship, then there is no room for trickery or manipulation or duress. 

Either the sex life is in place or it is not and if their partner does not wish to have a sex life with them, then they can either choose to remain in the relationship for the other benefits or they can dissolve the relationship and move on.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

,


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## Lia_lb2017 (Oct 6, 2017)

My thoughts:

She is equally dissatisfied as you. It gets depressing feigning liking sex. Believe me she's not feigning because she's mean , she does it because she loves you. She sacrifices her pleasure to see the look of climax and pleasure in your face. Women can live with occasional orgasms. The feeling of penetration is satisfying enough if you love a man. This becomes exhausting though because you start feeling like an ejaculation hole that is only being used. You feel the spark gone as you lay there being poked. My suggestion is to romanticize her. Buy her a beautiful piece of lingerie. Not a trashy one but a classy sexy piece. Make her feel like you value and respect her body. Not that she is a piece of meat. Bring out the wine and get her loosened up. Don't climb and start slobbering all over her. Kiss her gently starting at her shoulder, cheek, and forehead slowly moving in between each. Then go for her mouth. Guide her on top of you. Sometimes that's all we need. A reminder that we are respected and valued as women.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Lia_lb2017 said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> She is equally dissatisfied as you. It gets depressing feigning liking sex. Believe me she's not feigning because she's mean , she does it because she loves you. She sacrifices her pleasure to see the look of climax and pleasure in your face. Women can live with occasional orgasms. The feeling of penetration is satisfying enough if you love a man. This becomes exhausting though because you start feeling like an ejaculation hole that is only being used. You feel the spark gone as you lay there being poked. My suggestion is to romanticize her. Buy her a beautiful piece of lingerie. Not a trashy one but a classy sexy piece. Make her feel like you value and respect her body. Not that she is a piece of meat. Bring out the wine and get her loosened up. Don't climb and start slobbering all over her. Kiss her gently starting at her shoulder, cheek, and forehead slowly moving in between each. Then go for her mouth. Guide her on top of you. Sometimes that's all we need. A reminder that we are respected and valued as women.


I'm curious why you think OP hasn't shown value and respect for his wife. 

Feigning enjoying sex is what's disrespectful. It's not love; it's a lie. One does not fake it out of love, but rather out of avoidance. It's the easy way out rather than actually putting in the effort to try to make things better. It is lazy and if discovered, tells your lover, not only does he not excite you, but even more that he's not worth your effort. Very loving indeed.

You "sacrifice yourself" to "see the look of climax and pleasure" on his face. So you get something special out of that? Don't you think he might love to have the same experience with you? Maybe you should do what you can to help that process; now that would be a truly loving gesture.

I romance my wife constantly. She loves it. She says it is bonding. She tells me how lucky she is to have me. She says she feels "very connected" to me. But more sex? Not so much. More orgasms???? If only.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> I don't know of a single man alive that can outsmart any woman in matters of relationships, sex or love.
> 
> If someone, man or woman, has a healthy, active sex life as a required component of an ongoing relationship, then there is no room for trickery or manipulation or duress.


In the book "Mating in Captivity" which describes one professional opinion on how healthy relationships work, it goes on to say that *sexuality is something that DOES NOT adhere to democratic values of fairness and equality. If it did, things would become way to very boring, mundane and predictable.* Most people (perhaps everyone) has elements of their sexuality that crave unfairness and unpredictability. It pushes us to enjoy being uncomfortable and testing ourself to see how we can cope in such dynamic situations.

If we are being manipulated and tricked by someone that loves us as a means to be playful and fun in a loving way, there is nothing wrong with that and it should be encouraged. If however someone has ill intent and wants to harm the other through deception and manipulation, then that is just wrong and cruel. 

Essentially this is why the dynamics of "teasing" are often so sought after and enjoyed by couples. But it has to be done in a loving a caring way. 

@Bananapeel got it right in that he replied as if this comment was about teasing and being playful.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

badsanta said:


> OMG I agree with that and it gets worse...
> 
> These same women do NOT want you to try and get ideas from what you just saw in porn. And you may experience armageddon should you seek advice from another woman.


Oh no, it's _much, much_ worse than that. Search for "affirmative consent" next time you're thinking of trying something without asking first. Not only do you have to commit the ultimate turnoff of asking for permission, you need to hire a lawyer to watch.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lia_lb2017 said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> She is equally dissatisfied as you. It gets depressing feigning liking sex. Believe me she's not feigning because she's mean , she does it because she loves you. She sacrifices her pleasure to see the look of climax and pleasure in your face. Women can live with occasional orgasms. The feeling of penetration is satisfying enough if you love a man. This becomes exhausting though because you start feeling like an ejaculation hole that is only being used. You feel the spark gone as you lay there being poked. My suggestion is to romanticize her. Buy her a beautiful piece of lingerie. Not a trashy one but a classy sexy piece. Make her feel like you value and respect her body. Not that she is a piece of meat. Bring out the wine and get her loosened up. Don't climb and start slobbering all over her. Kiss her gently starting at her shoulder, cheek, and forehead slowly moving in between each. Then go for her mouth. Guide her on top of you. Sometimes that's all we need. A reminder that we are respected and valued as women.


Do a little mental exercise for me. Picture in your mind's eye a man that is fat, slovenly, rotten teeth, bad breath, gunk under his long, brown fingernails, who has a wad of chewing tobacco between his teeth and gums who spits when he talks and who has pit-stains under his arm on the t-shirt he hasn't changed in days. Picture "That Guy" in you mind. 

Ok now imagine that he is buying you lingerie because he wants to see you in it and get boner before he takes it off of you and starts touching you naked and trying to put his smelly parts in you. 

And imagine he is plying you with alcohol to get you drunk enough to look past his rotten teeth and pit stains. 

And let's assume he "values" you and is fine with starting at kissing your shoulders, forehead and cheek etc before going for your mouth. 

Are these things going to lead you to dropping your drawers for this man????


My point here is there is a fundamental difference between being overworked, overwhelmed, busy and tired to where romance and sexuality has taking a situational backseat to changing diapers, meeting deadlines and getting the laundry done before no one has any clean clothes .....

Vs not being sexually attracted to someone. 



"romance" and "valueing" and romantic gifts and good wine etc might work for someone who fundamentally is attracted to their partner but has gotten too busy and too distracted with the daily grind and needs to get their mind off the bills and back on to their own please for an evening. 

If someone you are not attracted to and you do not have any sexual desire for starts buying you suggestive gifts and starts trying to get your guard down with alcohol - it's just plain creepy and predatorial.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now I am not saying the OP is fat and slovenly and has bad breath one way or another, but many of the things he has said does indicate that she is not attracted to him sexually and does not enjoy sex with him.

If this is the case and he starts buying her sexy underwear and getting her drunk so he can stick it in her, it is going to creep her out and turn her off even more.


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## Biowidth (Oct 8, 2017)

I have a somewhat similar situation at home and although my wife is 10years younger and we both are in a good physical shape - things really slowed down on her end. Without being humble - I'm a good looking , athletic guy, who gets other women's attention.
So what should a healthy male do with his sexual energy and testosterone? Especially still being attracted to his wife, who is very pretty , btw.
Raising kids is a hard job , we all get this and respect our ladies for being good caring mothers for our children . But I work 4 jobs and she's the one who's always exhausted and is feeling under the weather, despite staying at home since the very first day we met 13+ years ago. 
Romantic trips didn't help although we've traveled to several destinations and those trips were actually great .
Talking on many occasions didn't do much either. She still loves me and cares , but I'm very frustrated and feel almost mistreated as a man. 

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Biowidth said:


> I have a somewhat similar situation at home and although my wife is 10years younger and we both are in a good physical shape - things really slowed down on her end. Without being humble - I'm a good looking , athletic guy, who gets other women's attention.
> So what should a healthy male do with his sexual energy and testosterone? Especially still being attracted to his wife, who is very pretty , btw.
> Raising kids is a hard job , we all get this and respect our ladies for being good caring mothers for our children . But I work 4 jobs and she's the one who's always exhausted and is feeling under the weather, despite staying at home since the very first day we met 13+ years ago.
> Romantic trips didn't help although we've traveled to several destinations and those trips were actually great .
> ...


Biowidth, you'll get good advice if you start your own thread. My suggestion would be to let her see what life is like without you. We'll provide more detail in your new thread.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Victor_1992 said:


> I can't just leave her because we have a kid together, but this did really bother me. I would understand if we were doing all kinds of wild things. But I'm literally talking about her going from wearing her nice matching bra and panties when we'd have date to wearing the same dirty bra she wore all week at work. Or giving me more than a quick peck on the lips when I went in for a kiss.


You don't get it do ya? The child you have together is the hook she has in you. You can still be a dad and be happy, you just need a different woman. Dump her! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

> So what should a healthy male do with his sexual energy and testosterone?


1. Tell her once that he needs to be with a woman who is attracted to him.
2. Ask her if there is anything you can do to make yourself more attractive to her or make sex better for her.
3. Spend 3 months doing anything she asked for, plus working out, paying attention to hygiene, dressing well, and taking her out on date night.
4. If sex life does not improve, file for divorce.


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## GatorXP (Oct 1, 2017)

David51 said:


> You don't get it do ya? The child you have together is the hook she has in you. You can still be a dad and be happy, you just need a different woman. Dump her!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


David is correct here. In fact the child may be even more of a reason to leave, at risk of staying And setting an example of disfunction putting the child at a disadvantage and setting hurdles the child will needlessly have to overcome to have successfull relationships in its own life

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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