# I Used To Have An Angel - Now She's Gone - LD Wife and Me



## BelaLegosiIsDead (Mar 11, 2013)

First post. Sorry that it sounds so narcissistic, it's difficult to write this kind of history without using "I" and "me" a lot. 

My story appears to be the same as a lot of men (and a couple of women) on here. LD wife, HD husband (me).

She was all about sex anywhere and everywhere when we were dating and first married (~3 years, give or take), to the point that I was convinced that she was had a HD like me. First child arrives and everything stops (I mean after the normal 5-6 week wait after childbirth). Of course my immediate guess was that something hormonal had changed due to either childbirth or her BC pills. Our frequency goes down from pretty near daily to once a week, which was (at the time) rather insufferable, but of course I had no idea that someday I would look back at 1xweek as something like living in the Promised Land. 1xweek turns into 1x every other week after a year. 

She suddenly gets a big spurt of sexual energy, starts initiating again and I think “well, good, at least that part of our life can be put into the past”. She gets immediately pregnant with our second child. And then everything just…slows to a crawl and now here I am a decade and a half later where, if there is any sex, we must first engage in the “foreplay” of a massive explosive argument because it’s been a month or two since the last time. What little sex there is, is clearly pity sex and she clearly has no real interest in being there. She does nothing, and considers her presence to be everything I could possibly ask for and gets very resentful if I suggest anything other than “hurry up and get it over with”. As you may well imagine, this isn't quite an aphrodisiac for me.

We did see a sex therapist for about a half year. She would comply, down to the letter of the instruction, with anything the therapist suggested, but nothing more, and it was very clinical and clear that she was only going through the motions. She admitted during therapy that she’s never really been interested in sex for most of her life, except for a small period of a couple of months, long before meeting me. Meaning of course that she faked the “look, I’m a HD lady” thing during our courtship. She doesn’t see this as morally wrong, so I have to get over it is the message. She seems to see sex as essentially good for bearing children (from a woman’s point of view) and doesn’t get nor care to understand that for men it is a source of bonding and closeness. We stopped going to the therapist, and she immediately went back to her old habits.

Look, I’m no saint, ok? Over the years I’ve gotten a bit depressed, and I drink a bit more than I should at my age (not daily or anything, and not to where I wake up in the middle of the yard without pants on), and after a month or so I do get resentful of the situation and her clear and apparent lack of care for our relationship’s sexual side. I just want a relationship with an adult woman, the woman I married, or whom I thought that I married in any event.

After this many years we still go out, but I’ll be quite honest, my enthusiasm for doing so has waned appreciably. We go out, and have no sex when we return. Our vacations always magically find the arrival of her period, without exception. If we stay at home, she’s asleep immediately. To her the height of intimacy and closeness is falling asleep with her head on my arm or chest while watching television. I wouldn’t mind this if it weren’t the only thing she considers “intimate”. She says I make her “feel comfortable”, but clearly I don’t and haven’t for a long, long time made her feel sexually excited or turned on. If at any point, even for a few moments, in the course of the passing months I am not expressing extreme happiness and that life is wonderful, that means that I'm not being "close" and of course it's held against me if I want intimacy. The element of control here took me a bit of time to notice, and it bothers me to no end, as I do not like being controlled or manipulated.

We have discussed this until we’ve exhausted the topic every which way to Sunday, she cannot at any point now plead ignorance, but she just doesn’t care. 

She can make time in her “busy schedule” for anything in the world but us, including day trips with girl friends on a lark. She goes to the gym every morning before work, uses that as an excuse for falling asleep very early at night, and the days she doesn’t go to the gym she still falls asleep early. There is always an excuse, there is always some “stress” that just “stops me from being in the mood”. 15 and a half years of excuses. I get that occasionally stress does arise and cause lack of libido for a given situation or short period of time, but after 15.5 years it has turned into nothing but an idiotic game of “what new excuse can we invent this month”.

We had another major fight recently and I just can’t get my head wrapped around this any longer. It’s the same fight with the same words and nothing ever, ever changes, because she clearly doesn’t want to change. The most that might happen is clinical, cold duty sex…once….until the next fight breaks out a month or two later. And she’s fine with this. 

I’m not a wallflower and I don’t appreciate what I consider being bullied. I do help with the housework, but because there are things that need done and we both work and surely it’s a shared responsibility. I keep myself in shape, I treat her nicely outside of this topic, and we raise our children together. Outside of this issue, she’s a good person (well, I don’t appreciate the lying about who she was to hook me into marriage). We do share a lot of common values, we do not have health problems, we have no economic worries and our children are hale and healthy.

Quite worried now, after the last fight, that we may fast be approaching divorce. I don’t want to lose constant presence in the lives of my children. Fortunately they are both older now. But still, the divorce courts are renowned for making the ex-husband into a bi-weekly Weekend Visitor and basically minimizing the influence of the father in the children’s lives. I’m also worried for them because she really has a hard time dealing with them, and she can’t quite see that her method of interaction with them is counter-productive (I’ll save that for another piece, just accept it at face value right now if that’s ok?). 

If approached objectively and not in the Father Hating Court view, I strongly believe that I would be the more suitable parent, but I’m well aware of what reality is and what the outcome will be. I really am sad that it’s come to this. She just doesn’t want to change, has no desire to change, and we’re about to lose our two decade marriage because she refuses to bring herself to even pretend to want to touch me sexually. God, there are what, 10,080 minutes in a week? And she considers “sacrificing” 30 to 60 minutes of them for us as too much to want to deal with and as something far too much to ask of her. If I'm reading this right we are literally going to see our lives, security and everything else we've worked for go up in a feeding frenzy for lawyers, because she just doesn't want to make an earnest and consistent try.

How nice would it be, to be with a woman who actually enjoyed being with me sexually, who actually had passion and sexual desire, who wasn’t a Victorian era prude (yeah, forgot to mention that, there is “show up, do missionary” and nothing else allowed, period, and if I must have fantasies they are best kept silently in my head, according to her). How great to wake up next to a beautiful woman who was already awake and teasing me in bed before I even had time to realize it was morning. Or be with a woman who liked to kiss (I really miss "making out" type kissing). Or liked to be “all over her man” no matter where she was even if it were a bit inappropriate sometimes. To not have to go for weeks or months and feel this awful all the time. To not have to use fights as foreplay. God.

Not sure what good this post will do, if anything, but I really had to get it off my chest. Nothing new nor unique here I’m sure, but hey, I had to post it even if it was all mostly redundant. Thanks for reading.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sounds like you got played. And played again so she could have baby #2. You're going to need to decide what you want. If you want to salvage this, it's going to take a tremendous amount of work. I can tell you right now that for whatever reason, she just isn't that into you. Personally, I'd strongly consider cutting your losses and getting out.


----------



## BelaLegosiIsDead (Mar 11, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Sounds like you got played. And played again so she could have baby #2. You're going to need to decide what you want. If you want to salvage this, it's going to take a tremendous amount of work. I can tell you right now that for whatever reason, she just isn't that into you. Personally, I'd strongly consider cutting your losses and getting out.


Hi WorkingOnMe,

Yes, I'd be a fool if I thought it was played any other way. Guess I'm at the point where I may well be cutting my losses and kind of pre-mourning not having my kids in my life on an everyday basis.

This entire situation has done no good things for my own self esteem. I do work out as I said, and I *think* some women might find me attractive, but I have no real way of knowing any longer. I really believe it's going to take a hell of a lot of work to trust a woman again (sorry ladies, just being honest here). 

Good lord, I mean 30-60 minutes a week, and that's too much for her to deign to suffer. Meh.

Thanks for the answer man, I appreciate it.


----------



## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

OP,
I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles. It sounds like a very tough situation for you to be in. I know that you said that you and your wife have been in therapy before, and it didn't seem to work, but I still believe that communication is the key. After reading your story, I just can't help but think that she really just doesn't "get" the pain that you are in and that sex and desire is a necessity (not a want) for a man in marriage. I know that she did a "bait & switch" on you in the beginning of marriage. But I'm sure that somehow she is rationalizing that that behavior was ok because you don't *really* need sex. It was just a means to an end for her and in her mind, she doesn't have any empathy to know why that is wrong. 

Others on these boards will recommend books like The Married Man's Sex Life Primer or No More Mr. Nice Guy and they may be helpful to you. They seem to work for some and not for others. However, if you want to save your marriage, and if she truly does care for you and she is not just a cold-hearted b!tch, then she is going to have to have an "ah ha" moment where she gains clarity on how this lack of sexual affection is affecting you and the marriage. 

I hate to say it, but lacking any real communication where she sees the light, your only options are to just shut your mouth and suffer through it, resigned to the fact that you are not going to have the sex life you want OR you need to leave. Sorry I couldn't be more optimistic. Best of luck.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

There's a very good chance that she will have her ahha moment when you start calling lawyers. It's very likely that she feels too safe. Like you'll never leave regardless of how she treats you.


----------



## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> There's a very good chance that she will have her ahha moment when you start calling lawyers. It's very likely that she feels too safe. Like you'll never leave regardless of how she treats you.


Agreed. She may need something to shock her into accepting the reality of the situation. However, whatever you do, don't do anything with malice or ill-intent. She just has to be made to realize that a loving sexual relationship that does not require World War III before it happens is non-negotiable and that you have suffered too long with the status quo. If things don't change, you can't see spending the rest of your life with her as a married couple. This has to be communicated in a deliberate, calm manner and then be ready to back it up with action.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I am sorry you find yourself here.

I just wanted to say, try not to worry about "what the courts will do" to a dad. Custody arrangements are usually decided by the parents, not the courts. You and your wife will likely come up with a fair and do-able custody arrangement *IF* it comes to that. So my point is, don't look at that piece of the puzzle right now.

Just look at "what do I want, and can I get that with my wife".

You sound like you feel like you have "tried everything". The one question I would ask you is, have you ever had a discussion, not a *fight* but a discussion, with your wife about this issue, in which you explain to her that divorce might be the eventual result of her decision not to want you sexually? She really should know that the stakes are that high, if she doesn't already.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

If you haven't read the other 59,292 threads about sexless marriages, you probably should. But, they're pretty much the same as yours so don't bother.

A sexless marriage is the symptom of something else gone wrong in the marriage. You mention drinking and being depressed... is that because of lack of sex or creating it?

Whatever, here's what I always suggest. First, find out what her needs are. Don't assume it's a roof over her head and spending money. What are her EMOTIONAL needs? If necessary, have her think about them and tell you specifically.

Then figure out if you are meeting those needs. Ask her... "Honey, am I meeting those needs?"

If she says you aren't, that's your starting point. You aren't going to get laid unless you (a) meet those needs or (b) ply her with enormous amounts of adult beverages (not recommended).

Check in with her and see if you are meeting those needs. get her to confirm that you are. Keep track if necessary. With my wife, more communication and non-sexual intimacy were needs that were missing. I improved on those and kept track. Do this not for a day or two, but weeks/months.

When you are sure you are meeting those needs, tell her that one of your needs is "a fulfilling, intimate sexual relationship" (not "sex") with her. Not duty sex, not sex in the corpse position, not "hurry up and finish" sex.

Explain to her that unless that need is met, you will be frustrated and resentful and less likely to continue to meet her needs (NOTE: This isn't "meet mine or else I won't meet yours". It's a natural change that will occur when the relationship is one-sided.) And if you aren't meeting her needs, the relationship won't last.

Explain to her that you promised monogamy, but not celibacy and the implied promise of monogamy in a relationship stands side-by-side with the implied promise that your partner will meet your needs. You simply cannot have one without the other.

People will tell you to read Married Man Sex Life and do the 180. I agree with that but you can't do that without (a) meeting her needs and (b) clearly identifying your needs. Otherwise you are trying to correct a problem that you haven't clearly identified with her.

Please remember that divorce MUST be an option. If she knows you will do anything to stay married (for the kids, for financial reasons, for appearances), your efforts will be useless as there are no consequences for her not meeting your needs (just as there wouldn't be any consequences for you not meeting her needs).

None of this is easy. It took many car rides alone with my wife (captive audience), marriage counseling and finally talk of divorce before she realized that it's a two-way street.


----------



## BelaLegosiIsDead (Mar 11, 2013)

Chris Taylor said:


> If you haven't read the other 59,292 threads about sexless marriages, you probably should. But, they're pretty much the same as yours so don't bother.


Heh, I've already scanned through quite a few of them. 



> A sexless marriage is the symptom of something else gone wrong in the marriage. You mention drinking and being depressed... is that because of lack of sex or creating it?


Lack of sex. And she drinks too by the way, but mostly because she just adores red wine.



> Whatever, here's what I always suggest. First, find out what her needs are. Don't assume it's a roof over her head and spending money. What are her EMOTIONAL needs? If necessary, have her think about them and tell you specifically.
> 
> Then figure out if you are meeting those needs. Ask her... "Honey, am I meeting those needs?"
> 
> ...


Right. We've been down that path already. Even in front of the counselor she claims I'm a good husband and a great person and all that, and that her needs (she requires "acts of duty" I guess you'd call it) are met. In fact, she's often quite optimistic and happy about how she has everything she could have wanted in life (emotionally as well as other).



> Please remember that divorce MUST be an option. If she knows you will do anything to stay married (for the kids, for financial reasons, for appearances), your efforts will be useless as there are no consequences for her not meeting your needs (just as there wouldn't be any consequences for you not meeting her needs).
> 
> None of this is easy. It took many car rides alone with my wife (captive audience), marriage counseling and finally talk of divorce before she realized that it's a two-way street.



I do need to get in contact with a divorce attorney. She clearly doesn't take me seriously.


----------



## BelaLegosiIsDead (Mar 11, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I am sorry you find yourself here.
> 
> I just wanted to say, try not to worry about "what the courts will do" to a dad. Custody arrangements are usually decided by the parents, not the courts. You and your wife will likely come up with a fair and do-able custody arrangement *IF* it comes to that. So my point is, don't look at that piece of the puzzle right now.
> 
> ...


Hi Faithful Wife,

Yes, we've had calm discussions, as well as the explosive ones. It's been a very, very long decade and a half. As I mentioned, I suspect that I should get an attorney. That's the last thing that might provoke an "ah hah" but I really doubt it even then.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

That all sounds like rewarding bad behavior to me. If I have a dog that bites, giving him a treat everytime he bites is not going to convince him he should love me and stop biting. It's only going to train him to bite if he wants a treat. Meeting her needs while she ignores yours is the same thing. Training your wife that its ok to be a selfish taker. 

Most people here would suggest the opposite. Pull back on meeting the needs you're already meeting. Stop rewarding her bad behavior. And if she treats you well, then treat her well.

ETA: this was in response to Chris.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"As I mentioned, I suspect that I should get an attorney. That's the last thing that might provoke an "ah hah" but I really doubt it even then."

If you have had the calm discussions but you have NEVER said that divorce is a possibility, then she doesn't know it is a possibility. You sound like you have not stated this yet. Have you?

I really think it is worth yet another sit down discussion where you discuss divorce as a possibility BEFORE you actually call an attorney.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> That all sounds like rewarding bad behavior to me. If I have a dog that bites, giving him a treat everytime he bites is not going to convince him he should love me and stop biting. It's only going to train him to bite if he wants a treat. Meeting her needs while she ignores yours is the same thing. Training your wife that its ok to be a selfish taker.
> 
> Most people here would suggest the opposite. Pull back on meeting the needs you're already meeting. Stop rewarding her bad behavior. And if she treats you well, then treat her well.
> 
> ETA: this was in response to Chris.


Just to clarify, it's fine to pull back but most of my comments are geared towards making sure that he IS meeting her needs and that she confirms that he is. He can't say "I'm meeting your needs, why can't you meet mine" unless she has confirmed that he is.

It is very important to be able to say "You told be that A, B and C were the needs I have to meet in this relationship. You have told me that I meet those needs, haven't you?" and get her to say yes.

THEN, unless she starts meeting his he can start to pull back. It will (should) happen naturally but as we have seen in some cases, guys love being doormats.

it sounds like he actually has gone through these steps and it's time to pull back.


----------



## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I really think it is worth yet another sit down discussion where you discuss divorce as a possibility BEFORE you actually call an attorney.


:iagree: Must be done in a calm, matter of fact tone with no hints of accusation or ill intent. If you feel that your wife thinks that all of her needs are being met (as indicated in your response to another poster) by you, then she truly doesn't get the severity of the situation and is willing to just move along on autopilot. You are going to have to snap her out of this reality.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

The other thing you can ask your wife is whether or not she thinks sex is important in your marriage.

If she says yes, then what's her reason for not having sex?

If she says no, then tell her that's fine... you'll get it elsewhere.

I say that somewhat facetiously but you understand the thinking.


----------



## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

It is scary how your story seems like my own. Have you guys checked her thyroid? Apparently 80% of thyroid issues go undetected. Pls check out my thread "LD and Thyroid"


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> It is scary how your story seems like my own. Have you guys checked her thyroid? Apparently 80% of thyroid issues go undetected. Pls check out my thread "LD and Thyroid"


Sent you a pm


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

BelaLegosiIsDead said:


> Heh, I've already scanned through quite a few of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sent you a pm


----------



## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

Your kids may model you two and they know you do not have a happy home so do you want them to get into relationships that are dysfunctional because they think that is how its suppose to be.

Like one of the fist posters said,you got played and as you said she was only HD because she wanted a ring on her finger and kids.

You choice now is either get divorced and start living or stay and see who beats who to the grave.


----------



## ozymandias (Sep 22, 2009)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

OP. could she be physically and mentally exhausted, from work?

Is it possible she was molested as a child or as a teen and sex reminds her of that bad memory.?

My wife was molested as a child and she did not tell me until we has been married 30 years...She made me feel like a pervert for just wanting sex and had a hurry up and finish it attitude. After getting some issues on the table, things are much better now.


----------

