# I'm taking some advice I got here--no sex (until...?)



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I've been told by others here on TAM that it's in the best interest of the relationship, and of myself, to NOT have sex with H after he's treated me badly, or until things improve.

This is true. It is too emotionally risky for me, and unhealthy for us, to have sex as if nothing else is wrong. We have sex, nothing else gets resolved, I get attached and start getting hopeful, am vulnerable, and there's never any consequence for the lack of love and respect.

We're on Day 3 of this. 

Day 1: "I can't. But that doesn't mean I don't love you."
Day 2: no real comments, I just went to bed early.
Day 3 (last night): He got pouty and passive aggressively nasty. 
I maintained a positive affect.
I said: "This is because I love you and I care about our relationship. It's not right to have sex when other wheels of our relationship are falling off. We need to be in balance. Sometimes it's better for us to NOT do whatever we feel like. I can't tonight, and we'll both know when I can." 

AND....enter blameshifting and denial: "No wheels are falling off of our relationship, Those are YOUR wheels falling off. Examine in yourself why you won't have sex with me... YOU...YOU...YOU..blah blah blah...blame blame blame"

Me: "It takes two."
Him: "It takes ONE!" uh...? :scratchhead:
defend, deny, self-protect, blame, project...

I looked him straight in the eyes, told him I loved him, and went to bed. 

It hurts me to reject him. But continued dysfunction will hurt more in the long run.
He knows how I feel. He hasn't done a damn thing to show me that he's my partner and not my opponent. 

Sometimes I think he doesn't know how to love.
It's not my job to teach him.

He's either going to accept reality and meet me in the middle, or I'm FINALLY going to get the clarity I need to be decisive and say "ENOUGH" already.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

P.S. It has happened in the past that I've tried to initiate, and he's said no. 
NEVER ever have I gotten nasty when that has happened.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This will take a little while to change the dynamic of the relationship, but it is a VERY good thing. I'm proud of you.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I agree with this approach.
I think it is good to have relations when you feel you are being treated nicely, on a day-to-day basis. You know when you are being treated nicely because then you feel like making love with your partner. Otherwise, being treated badly, why should he expect you to make love to him? Ridiculous expectation, and I'm sure he knows this too.
If I would suggest one change though, too much explaining and words to him about it. He knows what the situation is, so discussing it is not necessary, and only gives him the opportunity to make a verbal argument using favorite smokescreen tools, usually words. Think of all the movies you could watch with the time saved from the verbage. In fact, you could suggest, well, I am not feeling up to lovemaking tonight, but let's watch a movie. Pick a good one, so he won't feel inclined to talk over it!

Edited to add: My personal strategy is not to give my H the opportunity or means to treat me badly and to stop it immediately so that it does not escalate to the point of days upon days of no physical intimacy. Some days this can be done with logistics, other days he will have more opportunity for it to go either way. Not like I'm going to keep a scorecard, but when there is treating badly (aka abuse) then who needs a scorecard, we know how it feels.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> If I would suggest one change though, too much explaining and words to him about it. He knows what the situation is, so discussing it is not necessary, and only gives him the opportunity to make a verbal argument using favorite smokescreen tools, usually words.


This is absolutely true. This was my mistake last night. Thanks for the reminder.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

I'm not sure if I agree fully with what you're doing, but I missed the last thread. I assume that if he has a day where he's able to behave as a mature adult you'd be willing to bond sexually? 
Anyway, I think you should address his comment from the third night. Let him know that you've examined the reasons and that his refusal to work on the relationship has made you feel emotionally neglected to the point that sex is very far from your mind, assuming that's the truth. He needs to understand that his actions affect your desire.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I hope he's not a stubborn prick like I am though credamdocashgra (sheesh btw you have any idea how long your username is?!)

I would start helping myself at this point in ur hubby's shoes (and drive the missus to even more insanity!), I don't break, or bend knee. Even if my new avatar suggests otherwise (it's cute no? xD suits how I feel at times with marriage)

Anyways on a serious note, since when did you come up with this idea? I know I haven't been around but please, give me a rundown.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

WhereAmI said:


> I'm not sure if I agree fully with what you're doing, but I missed the last thread. I assume that if he has a day where he's able to behave as a mature adult you'd be willing to bond sexually?
> Anyway, I think you should address his comment from the third night. Let him know that you've examined the reasons and that his refusal to work on the relationship has made you feel emotionally neglected to the point that sex is very far from your mind, assuming that's the truth. He needs to understand that his actions affect your desire.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He knows these things in a general sense.
I've told him that his flaring temper and blameshifting push me away.
Told him--though it was months ago--that when he yells at me, I can't open up to him sexually.
He knows what I would love for him to do--I said it clearly in a letter I wrote to him last week.
He knows.
I'm close to the edge of leaving, and need something to push me in one or the other direction of that edge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Anyways on a serious note, since when did you come up with this idea? I know I haven't been around but please, give me a rundown.


Since my dignity started to outweigh my hope in the marriage.
No, seriously...it's only been a few days. 
His last display of uncontrolled emotion was Thursday. Weekend was tense, with some passive aggression, and Sunday night he wanted to have sex.
Every time I reach out to try and repair, he denies there's anything to repair.
I'm protecting myself from this loneliness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> This is absolutely true. This was my mistake last night. Thanks for the reminder.


I catch myself doing that a lot!

My counselor was even advising me to explain something and I stopped the counselor and said, no, that doesn't work, too many words, too much opportunity to use them as abuse or smokescreening.

I consider explaining things as an 'attractive nuisance'. 

Behavior modification only works when you put it in action. The point is that it isn't supposed to engage the part of the brain that can think about it. You want to establish a rock solid neural pathway. This can't be done by book learning (i.e. verbage). 

And, it should be largely focused on positive reinforcement with increased (and randomly nearly guaranteed) chances of success at the outset, and then less effort on your part to facilitate the positive outcome over time (still with random nearly-guaranteed positive outcome days). 

The FLIP SIDE of this is that if he treats you like a queen one day, and you do not feel in the mood (like you are genuinely tired or starting to feel sick), you'd be doing yourself a huge disservice not to deliver the positive reinforcement. There are times when it is for our own good, just in the long term. 

Just like frog in a pot with the heat increasing works to condition a person to abuse, manipulation and control, it can work just as well in the other direction. It's a bit troubling when one has to consciously think about the situation like that, it's normally a thought process reserved for pets, horses, and children in the toddler or adolescent stage. But, whatever.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Rock solid neural pathway.
Too many words distract.
Positive reinforcement.
You sound like you get what I'm going through here.

A colleague/fellow teacher friend of mine said, "He needs a marriage IEP."
Abso-freaking-lutely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarah.rslp (Jan 2, 2009)

You shouldn't use sex as a weapon in an arguement


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Since my dignity started to outweigh my hope in the marriage.
> No, seriously...it's only been a few days.
> His last display of uncontrolled emotion was Thursday. Weekend was tense, with some passive aggression, and Sunday night he wanted to have sex.
> Every time I reach out to try and repair, he denies there's anything to repair.
> ...


=/

Well I guess you explained it quite well, it seems he's playing the silent game, it's due time to play it back - I would do the same.



> You shouldn't use sex as a weapon in an arguement


Well considering what I just heard from OP, all is fair in love and war.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

sarah.rslp said:


> You shouldn't use sex as a weapon in an arguement


Not what I'm doing at all. Read my whole story if you feel like it. 
I don't believe all's fair in love and war.
I just don't feel like I'm being loved--for months now--so I can't make love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Realised I took that saying too far too actually...


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Realised I took that saying too far too actually...


I get where you were coming from with that. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Bottom line:

Emotionally, I am alone. 

Unless that changes, the physical will need to catch up to that.

I'm sick to death of being pushed away at his moods and whims.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Credam,

You were building resentment to him by continuing to have sex with him while you did not respect him. He has to earn your respect back and change internally before you can search for emotional connection. Then, the sex will come.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What has he done at all to show he wants to help restore the marraige?

Cause all of your posts seem to be that he isn't doing his part and/or you are upset with this. That you talk to him about how you feel and he doesn't give a f. That is how it comes across.

And it seems this has been going on for awhile. So sex, or no sex, it doesn't seem anything has changed or become better.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> And it seems this has been going on for awhile. So sex, or no sex, it doesn't seem anything has changed or become better.


I gotta admit though, the missus' silent treatment is effective. I may hate it like hell, but it works and does its job - IT DRIVES ME NUTS!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The silent treatment was one of the things that destroyed my marriage. He could go days/weeks w/o saying a single word to me despite me asking what was wrong and telling him it was effecting me badly.

It's emotionally abusive if used as a control tactic, in a pattern. It ostracizes the person on the receiving end.

Stonewalling and sulking are immature and breed resentment over time.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Credam,
> 
> You were building resentment to him by continuing to have sex with him while you did not respect him. He has to earn your respect back and change internally before you can search for emotional connection. Then, the sex will come.


That's one of my hopes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> What has he done at all to show he wants to help restore the marraige?
> 
> Cause all of your posts seem to be that he isn't doing his part and/or you are upset with this. That you talk to him about how you feel and he doesn't give a f. That is how it comes across.
> 
> And it seems this has been going on for awhile. So sex, or no sex, it doesn't seem anything has changed or become better.


The other one of my hopes is that I become ready to leave. After all efforts are exhausted.

He makes baby steps. Tiny baby steps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well I wish you luck either way. It's hard carrying a relationship all on your own when you feel the other party isn't putting forth the same effort. Hopefully he will wake up and realize you both can have a great relationship with help from BOTH sides.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> The silent treatment was one of the things that destroyed my marriage. He could go days/weeks w/o saying a single word to me despite me asking what was wrong and telling him it was effecting me badly.
> 
> It's emotionally abusive if used as a control tactic, in a pattern. It ostracizes the person on the receiving end.
> 
> Stonewalling and sulking are immature and breed resentment over time.


So what did you do in response? I'm just curious =/


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

sarah.rslp said:


> You shouldn't use sex as a weapon in an arguement


Not weapon in this context.
Natural consequences.
A well-accepted parenting technique, that works.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Well I wish you luck either way. It's hard carrying a relationship all on your own when you feel the other party isn't putting forth the same effort. Hopefully he will wake up and realize you both can have a great relationship with help from BOTH sides.


Yeah. That's why I'm putting effort into NOT doing more than "my share" of the emotional work, if that makes sense.
I need to take good enough care of myself that I don't start hoping for more from him than I can realistically expect. It'll hurt more to be let down, than to accept what's right in front of my eyes.
I'm hanging in here and trying to change the dynamic, but if he continues to refuse to meet me halfway, I'll leave and won't look back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> So what did you do in response? I'm just curious =/


I left. I wrote him a note saying now he didn't have to worry about ignoring me anymore. 

By then it had been 1.5 month since he'd talked to me. I had it down a science, when his silent treatment would start. It was an absolute control thing for him. Like I could say, "Hi, how was your day?" and he would just walk past me without saying a word. A week later after no words he'd say "Hey wanna go to the movies?" Like nothing had happened. When I'd tell him it wasn'tOk, he would brush it off as nothing and say "Well I was mad because XYZ." Um. Relationships require communication. Not stonewalling someone.

It was sick. 

Granted, that wasn't the only problem. But it made me lose a lot of respect for him and some love, too. I started to resent him. Very emotionally abusive. Made me feel like I didn't exist.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ouch... that's, brutal lol!

Come to think of it, seems I've been rather accommodating. But I don't know, I've kinda got used to the game - when it's played back it tends to get less serious (and more stupid - LIKE LIFE!)


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh I tried playing back. It didn't work. 

Basically I just started to see what the deal was--it was a relationship on his terms .. or else... 

One time we were flying back from London and all day he'd been super chatty and sweet and as soon as we boarded the plane I felt the air escape from the balloon, so to speak. He refused to speak to me the entire 8 hour flight. Sh-t like like that. He would do it about every 1.5 to 2 months. I had it down to clockwork. Very very toxic way to live. Makes you feel like a ghost in your own house. He refused MC because "Nothing is wrong."

Eventually I decided I didn't want to live that way anymore.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Oh I tried playing back. It didn't work.
> 
> Basically I just started to see what the deal was--it was a relationship on his terms .. or else...
> 
> ...


I don't get silent treatment, but it does feel like things have to be on his terms.
He also denies that anything is wrong. Rather, the only thing that's wrong is that I'm too sensitive to his behaviors and can't just let them go.
He makes zero room for my perspective.

A part of me is waiting to hear whether or not I get this primo job I applied for, and then have a "come to Jesus" talk with him.
A part of me is still hoping. This "cooler temp" me is fairly new, only a couple months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

With all due respect, I think you all are heading for divorce. With this strategy in place your best move is plan for how you want to split things up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> With all due respect, I think you all are heading for divorce. With this strategy in place your best move is plan for how you want to split things up
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We ARE heading for divorce as long as he refuses to treat me with love and respect or meet me halfway.
Read a letter..:read a book...talk to a counselor....talk to a friend...talk to ME..
If he won't do any of that, then yes, you are correct.
I'll know I'm still doing my BEST up to the very end.
I'd rather divorce than stay in a marriage where my husband outright doesn't care for any of my emotional needs, and I'm bound by duty to meet all of his, and his sexual needs too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I don't get silent treatment, but it does feel like things have to be on his terms.
> He also denies that anything is wrong. Rather, the only thing that's wrong is that I'm too sensitive to his behaviors and can't just let them go.
> He makes zero room for my perspective.


Yeah, none of that is good. Was he always like this? 

How long have you been married?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> He also denies that anything is wrong.


That's silent treatment =/


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Yeah, none of that is good. Was he always like this?
> 
> How long have you been married?


Been married almost a year.
Yes, there were signs. I took the plunge on faith and/or stupidity. 
Can't even blame youth. I was 30. I'm now 31.

*sigh*


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> That's silent treatment =/


Whatever it's called, I'm getting sick and tired of being given the message that whatever I'm feeling is my problem, doesn't matter, is no big deal.

He is very much like a 13-year-old.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> He is very much like a 13-year-old.


Heh, might actually use that in the morning for my little 'crisis' actually 

Sorry... I don't know whats wrong with me tonight really >.<


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's not the "silent treatment" if he's actually speaking with you. But denying and refusing to hear you out IS minimizing your feelings, an unwillingness to hear you out/compromise and basically he is telling you "I dont really care how you feel cause I"m gonna keep doing whatever I want."

One-sided relationship.

Did you guys date a long time before you married? Is he nice to his momma? Does he have lots of friends? How do your family like him?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> It's not the "silent treatment" if he's actually speaking with you. But denying and refusing to hear you out IS minimizing your feelings, an unwillingness to hear you out/compromise and basically he is telling you "I dont really care how you feel cause I"m gonna keep doing whatever I want."
> 
> One-sided relationship.
> 
> Did you guys date a long time before you married? Is he nice to his momma? Does he have lots of friends? How do your family like him?


The answers to all those questions spell DOOM.
He has an awful relationship with his FOO.
My FOO likes him but are tired of watching him hurt me. They'll support me whatever I do.
only dated 2 years before wedding.
I probably should cut my losses, but I'm not ready yet. Starting to sound like a broken record.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mirrormask (Jun 15, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I've been told by others here on TAM that it's in the best interest of the relationship, and of myself, to NOT have sex with H after he's treated me badly, or until things improve.
> 
> This is true. It is too emotionally risky for me, and unhealthy for us, to have sex as if nothing else is wrong. We have sex, nothing else gets resolved, I get attached and start getting hopeful, am vulnerable, and there's never any consequence for the lack of love and respect.
> 
> ...


I do not really think this is the best approach to resolving your situation. It is a myth that you can Dog train your husbands with the power of your vagina but, that has got to be the worst idea that a woman has ever come up with. I say woman because no man would ever come up with that idea. Ill explain why this is not the best approach. It is in a mans genetic makeup to need to be accepted by his mate no matter what. You cant control a man by your vagina no matter how hard you try, but you could easily break him. Men are rugged and tough, but fragile on the inside. No man likes to feel rejected by their mate.

I have answered alot of questions on topics like this in my lifetime but i will go ahead and stop right here and just tell you a solution instead of a long drawn out explanation on why this doesn't work.

1. Your not actually getting a man to do something by trying to control him with your vagina "powers". What you are actually doing is triggering his instincts to just cut his losses and move on in order to start getting with his wife again. Your not changing anything, your actually just getting him to say "ok whatever" without words.

2. Men don't do this to women. Its not because we cant, trust me, would could say no. It is because we know by instinct that if you are physically capable of mating with you partner, then you should.

Now that those 2 facts are out of the way, here are some things to try.

1. First off ask yourself, why has he treated you badly. Could you of possibly done something that in your mind you just don't see? Women tend to push buttons a little past where they should be pressed. I have dealt with situations where i have had girls scream in my face "hit me, hit me i dare you". Women Women Women, you have got to stop acting like this. Poking your husbands in the face, hitting them in the head so on and so on. 

2. Try asking him what is going on. Don't make it a long drawn out conversation. Just a simple "Hey i feel like you've been being negative to me and i want to ask if everything is ok with me and you". Don't try to take his answer and turn it into a riddle, men don't speak in riddles like women do at times. We literally mean exactly what we say in a serious conversation.

3. This is the real solution you ladies need to pay attention to. Accept our answers!! Women do not mind long drawn out conversations over situations, men do. That is the way it has been, the way it is and the way it will always be. That is our nature. Men think simple, problem -> solution. Its as simple as that. If a man says there is no problem, that's because in his mind he cannot see any threat that needs to be dealt with. That isn't to say there is not a problem, but women have a tendency to take something small and blow it up to a big issue. So while technically there could be a problem in your relationship, you might have to accept the simple fact that perhaps it is you (the female) who has turned a small thing into a large thing, while he only sees it as the small thing it really is.

I know some women will not agree with this post, but there is where the problem lay. Women are women and men are men. We think different, we act different. 

The best solution i can offer you is that if your being abused get out. But if your not taking any actual abuse, then you need to focus on why you love each other for the "way" each of you are. When you marry a person, you marry their life, the way they are, the things they do. You are "two individuals" SHARING a life together. Always remember that. You each have your own things you want to do, things you like to do and so on. 

The Biggest turn off to any sex, male or female, is to be told you cant do something you want to do as long as it is appropriate. By appropriate i mean a universal measure not what YOU consider appropriate, because your partner isn't going by the same measure as you are, they are going by the universal measure.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

it's not an attempt to control. it's a way of protecting myself from getting hurt.
if he were able to talk to me like an adult, damn skippy i would do that. he shuts down, blameshifts, or blows up.
i've been on this forum since september. i've come a long way. my behaviors and thoughts have changed significantly.


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## Mirrormask (Jun 15, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> it's not an attempt to control. it's a way of protecting myself from getting hurt.
> if he were able to talk to me like an adult, damn skippy i would do that. he shuts down, blameshifts, or blows up.
> i've been on this forum since september. i've come a long way. my behaviors and thoughts have changed significantly.


Do you feel protected doing it this way? Or do you feel distanced and more lonely? 

Blame-shifts, shut downs and blow ups are pretty common when your dealing with immaturity. Now that you have shed a little more light on the topic. It is more clear now that you are dealing with a man that has not quite reached the adult mentality. I will not stand here and tell you that you should call it quits and find a more mature man. I will however tell you that if you have exhausted ALL OPTIONS (really ask your heart this one), then keep your head up and walk away. Don't look back, don't wonder what he is doing. Just walk away and never look back it would only make it harder.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Mirrormask, you are maybe normal.
For a man who is abusive, the woman needs to stop the abuse and actually giving the man sex in return for abuse can really damage the marriage, it can make her disgusted with the man. It is good to have sex with the man when he treats you right. Therefore you have to make it easy for him to treat you right. Easiest way is physical proximity limited for a little while, less time = less opportunity to be abusive and more opportunity to do communication and relationship building without reverting to insult. Nobody is training anyone. The woman is attempting to salvage a relationship that was abusive. 

Not trying to get an okay guy to bend over backwards for her.


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## broken1 (May 10, 2011)

I believe you are doing the right thing. It is likely unconventional to many... But its all about your motives. Many people use sex as a way to punsh or control. Your motives seem pure as to re-establishing the emotional connection without the physical.

However, that being said, if your husband doesn't TRULY understand your motives he will likely see it as punishment and resent you for it. Make sure you go to extreme lengths to make him understand that sex is preventing a true re-connect in your relationship. If he really wants to foster a "one-flesh" relationship with you then hopefully he will understand and get on board with it.


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## Mirrormask (Jun 15, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Mirrormask, you are maybe normal.
> For a man who is abusive, the woman needs to stop the abuse and actually giving the man sex in return for abuse can really damage the marriage, it can make her disgusted with the man. It is good to have sex with the man when he treats you right. Therefore you have to make it easy for him to treat you right. Easiest way is physical proximity limited for a little while, less time = less opportunity to be abusive and more opportunity to do communication and relationship building without reverting to insult. Nobody is training anyone. The woman is attempting to salvage a relationship that was abusive.
> 
> Not trying to get an okay guy to bend over backwards for her.


I pointed out that if she is being abused to get out. Period. She stated she saw the signs before she married him. If he was like that when you married him, then he will be like that tomorrow and a year from now. 

If you are being abused and he was like that when you got him. What are you trying to salvage? 

There is nothing complicated about this situation. As far as i can see, you have no children by him. You have no ties to him if you leave. So if you feel unsafe. You will always feel unsafe.

People tend to come up with all kinds of reasons in their head on why they cant leave a situation. The truth is you can always leave. I am sure even the original poster can name a few on why she cant leave him right now. Are your parents still alive? If so mo back with them after you leave him until you get back on your feet again. Or stay with friends. But if you leave, understand that you have to LEAVE, no phone calls, no wondering if hes ok and so on.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I never said I can't or won't leave.
I said I'm not ready to yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Ditto here for me.
I have IC and MC and haven't exhausted my own behavior change yet. The abuse isn't life threatening and isn't physically limiting so far as being able to leave the house, communicate with others, etc. It's more along the lines of having an obnoxious 4 year old with no manners and a potty mouth instead of a husband. While nobody wants to put on a mommy hat to save their relationship, the mommy hat is cheaper than a divorce, and then there is chemistry to think of. Once having HAD that chemistry, even if under a delusion, sometimes one wants it back. There is a difference between succumbing to terminal slot machine syndrome and being in counseling not ready to throw in the towel. I personally see it as my right to attempt to salvage what is 1/2 mine - marriage.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Ditto here for me.
> I have IC and MC and haven't exhausted my own behavior change yet. The abuse isn't life threatening and isn't physically limiting so far as being able to leave the house, communicate with others, etc. It's more along the lines of having an obnoxious 4 year old with no manners and a potty mouth instead of a husband. While nobody wants to put on a mommy hat to save their relationship, the mommy hat is cheaper than a divorce, and then there is chemistry to think of. Once having HAD that chemistry, even if under a delusion, sometimes one wants it back. There is a difference between succumbing to terminal slot machine syndrome and being in counseling not ready to throw in the towel. I personally see it as my right to attempt to salvage what is 1/2 mine - marriage.


It is nice to not be alone in this boat.
Good to meet you, homemaker_número_uno.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> It is nice to not be alone in this boat.
> Good to meet you, homemaker_número_uno.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi there. 
What does your user name mean?

My H is conveniently overseas.
I've had the leisure of IC and regaining myself in his absence. 
We started MC individual appts his remotely prior to him returning home, my insistence to case manager. Yes, there is a case manager as well. I don't waste resources or effort.
He had a documented EA with some physical attributes, that he admitted to. So now he has been 'forced' into counseling (after trying many excuses to get out of it). I really dislike checkmate situations but when life hands them to you, it's best to take advantage of them and try to put on the kid glove when moving your queen. Even if it turns out he is playing me after all, my walk-away position will be much stronger for my efforts in not turning tail.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

credamdóchasgra said:


> It's not right to have sex when other wheels of our relationship are falling off. We need to be in balance. Sometimes it's better for us to NOT do whatever we feel like. I can't tonight, and we'll both know when I can."
> 
> AND....enter blameshifting and denial: "No wheels are falling off of our relationship, Those are YOUR wheels falling off. Examine in yourself why you won't have sex with me... YOU...YOU...YOU..blah blah blah...blame blame blame"


Maybe someone pointed it out already but the reason he argued with you was because you're comment was argumentative. Every time you use the word "we" or "us" you're being argumentative because you are trying to speak for him. You are projecting what you think is right onto him, and of course he'll argue with you. Next time try to replace we or us with I. Say, "I need to be in balance" or "i need to feel the relationship is in balance." If you insert that 'I feel the wheels are falling off' then he cant argue with that, or if he does you can simply say, 'that is how i feel'. But if you state it as if it's the truth for him, and the relationship, then he has a right to argue with that. He feels you are wrong, and that needs to be ok.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Blanca,
whether I say "I" or "we" or "you," he is the same level of defensuve.
The same level of "that's your problem! YOU deal with it!"

homemaker,
it's Irish gaelic for "faith hope love."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Hi there.
> What does your user name mean?
> 
> My H is conveniently overseas.
> ...


PS I'll respond more when I'm alone/at a computer. Out with H. You sound very strong and smart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Hi there.
> What does your user name mean?
> 
> My H is conveniently overseas.
> ...


It sounds like you're handling your situation in a practical and clear-headed way. That can help tremendously.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> *The answers to all those questions spell DOOM.*


Elaborate.



credamdóchasgra said:


> He has an awful relationship with his FOO.
> My FOO likes him but are tired of watching him hurt me.


What's a FOO?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Family of origin
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PealedBannana (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't think holding back sex completely while resolving issues is good. When you guys have a good day, don't hold back. My wife is saying no sex until things are fixed but I see sex as healthy and needed... when its warrented from a good DAY(s). It is makibg me feel like I have to hold back how I feel to a point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

PealedBannana said:


> I don't think holding back sex completely while resolving issues is good. When you guys have a good day, don't hold back. My wife is saying no sex until things are fixed but I see sex as healthy and needed... when its warrented from a good DAY(s). It is makibg me feel like I have to hold back how I feel to a point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure, when we have a good day, it's possible, and good, and important. That would be great.
Let's see how today goes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

Hi . . . chiming in a little late here. After 19 years of a pretty good marriage, things started getting rough about 8 months ago. Back in February, I noticed a pattern where she would put me down, put me down, put me down and then 'let's make love.' I called her on this . . .BIG mistake. She took what I said and turned it around as it being makeup sex and her way to apologize (not what I meant). This resulted in about 7 weeks of no sex at all. This, from my perspective was not helpful in the least. It finally ended when I asked her if she was f***** someone else, cause she wasn't getting it from me, and if she was, I'll get it elsewhere. (Not a high maturity comment on my part admittedly. I wasn't going to let her use sex as a weapon over me.

The other part is the physical aspect. Having sex releases endorphins (??) that make us feel better, good for the heartrate, circulation, etc. And could be a good start to starting to draw together (instead of no sex pushing us apart). That all said, he has to be able to step up to the plate and do his share of the work to get the marriage on track without the sex-ultimatum.


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## FaithHopeLove (Apr 21, 2011)

Just throwing this out there--

1) I think it is great that you are not having sex with him while he's still mistreating you and won't communicate or at least be willing to try to talk things out. If you see that there is a loose wheel, then he should at least be respectfully talking to you about that.

2) Based on what I went through with my H2B, one of my "love languages" is physical intimacy. It doesn't mean having sex, but it could mean I need a nice long hug and a kiss to feel loved. 

You are saying some really sweet things to your husband, but perhaps when you tell him that you do not want to have sex with him right now because you are too hurt to do something like that, you could give him a hug while you say that? He might have a same love language as I do and need that physical touch (along with the communication) to not get defensive.

When I have to tell something that is a touchy subject to my H2B, I will usually hold his hand and for whatever reason that let's him know I'm not trying to upset him and he won't get defensive with me.

Just wanted to share-- not sure if its something you can use but it has helped our relationship


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## KJ5000 (May 29, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Not what I'm doing at all. Read my whole story if you feel like it.
> I don't believe all's fair in love and war.
> I just don't feel like I'm being loved--for months now--so I can't make love.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand. You can't be hurt/angry and just press the *ON* button and say "Let's have sex!" when you feel the way you do. And that is NOT using sex as a weapon.

Have some really good discussions and hopefully he will understand how you feel. We men are slow sometimes but be patient but don't rush anything sexual until you're ready.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

You are married to a man who has severe emotional issues going back to his childhood. He can't, and won't see it. If he admits to it, then he has to fix it, which means bringing back the bad memories. Fear keeps him where he's at.

Maybe if you two separate he will be able to see what he has to loose. You and he will have more time to think about if you/he want to make the marriage work, or move on. 

Does he realize if he doesn't do something that you will divorce him? Or does he think you are making idle threats? He doesn't sound like he is taking this serious.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

4sure said:


> You are married to a man who has severe emotional issues going back to his childhood. He can't, and won't see it. If he admits to it, then he has to fix it, which means bringing back the bad memories. Fear keeps him where he's at.
> 
> Maybe if you two separate he will be able to see what he has to loose. You and he will have more time to think about if you/he want to make the marriage work, or move on.
> 
> Does he realize if he doesn't do something that you will divorce him? Or does he think you are making idle threats? He doesn't sound like he is taking this serious.


What you say is true. I'm becoming exhausted of this.

I know I'll probably need to cut my losses before too long.

I don't think he realizes how serious I am--words are weapons to him, so I think he perceives my threats as weapons. 

Not only that...he uses "you married me, honor our commitment!!!" to try and manipulate me. Good thing I'm getting better at not letting myself be manipulated.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mirrormask said:


> There is nothing complicated about this situation.


Well. There you have it then. 

And there is no emoticon that matches my response to this.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is the ultimate female message to the male. It is a big reason I believe that marriages are seriously at risk when the woman shuts sex down. It generally means "something" is very broken. Could be you are being "too nice/smothering" or some other problem. 




credamdóchasgra said:


> I've been told by others here on TAM that it's in the best interest of the relationship, and of myself, to NOT have sex with H after he's treated me badly, or until things improve.
> 
> This is true. It is too emotionally risky for me, and unhealthy for us, to have sex as if nothing else is wrong. We have sex, nothing else gets resolved, I get attached and start getting hopeful, am vulnerable, and there's never any consequence for the lack of love and respect.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

For a "male" this now means you have dropped the temperature to below zero. And that is a good thing. He has been taking the marriage for granted for quite some time. And sex has been something that allowed him to believe things were still "ok" even though they were not so for you. 




credamdóchasgra said:


> Well. There you have it then.
> 
> And there is no emoticon that matches my response to this.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> For a "male" this now means you have dropped the temperature to below zero. And that is a good thing. He has been taking the marriage for granted for quite some time. And sex has been something that allowed him to believe things were still "ok" even though they were not so for you.


I want to clarify that my main motivation is NOT to punish, manipulate, or "get him" to feel something.
*It is to be true to myself and protect myself emotionally.*

Yesterday was rough. I got very bad news in my family.
H was compassionate---to a point...conditionally?
And then it spiraled into a conversation in which I said some things I needed to say, and he did what he always does--fought tooth and nail.

The night ended on a decent note, all things considered: 
I told him that some of the things he said were nasty and damaging low blows. 
He sincerely apologized, made me a snack, kissed me good night.

His lack of empathy is becoming untenable to me.
I dont ever want to get acclimated to it like a boiling frog.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Another thing-----

He NEEDS to care that it hasn't been "ok" for me.
Still very little evidence of that.
Still minimizing, denying, deflecting, blah blah blah
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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