# Relationship Advice



## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Hi all,

I'm new here and I really don't know who else to turn to and get some feedback on my current situation. 

I've been with my wife now for 15 years and married for 5 years and have two young girls.

Our relationship from the start was probably what most relationships are like really. We met on the internet and chatted for over 6 months before actually meeting up. When we first met we slept together that first night. We were intimate often and we really enjoyed each others company. 

At the start of our relationship she was living with her ex-boyfriend who had been gay for over a year. They had been living together and from what I remember even sleeping in the same bed. At that moment she was adamant they were only friends and nothing would ever happen. I wasn't too happy about this as it wasn't normal, we argued and I told her that it wasn't right to live like this whilst going out with me, so she ended the relationship. However I had fallen head over heels for her and I wanted her back. She broke my heart then and even after all this time I still hurt (even though we are still together).

I decided to try and get over her and move to another country as I was offered a job elsewhere. She heard about me moving and after a series of phonecalls we decided to try again, on the proviso she moved out the flat with her ex (gay) boyfriend. He was very controlling of her and quite verbally abusive. She came to stay at my mum and dads, but it wasn't long before we ended up getting a flat together. I didn't move abroad, I decided to stay and make a go of it as I was still in love with here.

Once we moved things were great, I had moved out of living with my parents and she was out of the flat with her ex-bf. It was great to be with someone who I truly loved and she loved me. The only issue was that she insisted on having nights out and sometimes weekends out with her friends and ex-bf as they were still close friends. I know he was gay, but it still hurt that she wanted to spend the weekend with him instead of me. 

When they were going out they were taking drugs etc, she would come back and it would take a full day to get over the effects. We had the odd argument about her drug taking and her ex and this went on for months until I gave an ultimatum and asked for her to stay clear of him as it was affecting herself and our relationship. I was spending my entire weekends wondering what she was doing? It was really odd. This went on for I'd say around 6 months or so.

Eventually she agreed and decided that she could no longer go out and do this every weekend as it wasn't fair. We were arguing more and more and I was struggling sleeping when she was out. She then broke ties with her ex out of nowhere.

We moved from the flat after 2 years into a rented house. We lived there for over 2 years, everything was great, no major issues during this time. We then decided to move into our own house and we bought one and lived their for 9 years. Over this period everything was great, our sex life wasn't what is what but I suppose everybody's does the same after a few years! We also had two children and got married.

We recently moved again due to the kids schooling, but since moving here I've noticed some changes in my wife. She's no longer as intimate has she was before. I'd say we have sex once a month if that. I have to initiate sex on every occasion. When we are having sex I sometimes take a glance at her face and she looks completely disinterested in me. I mean I'd say I'm pretty good ha ha, but it's always hard to try and make an effort when someone is pulling their face! I recently had the 'snip' which she insisted and during this time we have had sex around 3 times. I was told to have sex / masturbate for over 20 times to be clear of the sperms, so I was thinking I was going to get sex once or twice a week, nope!

The other issues I'm facing are that last Christmas after her works party (where she stayed over at an hotel) I believe she may have possibly been with someone else. One evening after she was back and when she was in bed I noticed her iPad light up and a message appear from a 'Danny' on Messenger. She had mentioned this Danny before, and said he was nice guy and that he was looking for promotion so he had been sending her messages. I told her then that he was only interested in one thing and to 'be careful'.

I know I shouldn't have but I was intrigued to see what the message said, and it was a thread of messages for over a year!!?? The messages went back to when she was working away for 6 weeks the year before. Now, I wouldn't say the messages said anything revealing, but she had been chatting to this Danny when she had been downstairs with me, which I find really odd. She had even chatted to him later at night and even before I'd met her at the Cinema one night! The messages also mentioned that there was rumours in the office that she'd slept with another guy called 'Nick' on her xmas party and a rumour she slept with this Danny. I had to confront her, not only for the messages from another man but the rumours of her sleeping with this Nick. Nick was her old boss and she never, ever stopped talking about him and how nice he was. I didn't really think anything of it...

I woke her that night and confronted her about these messages, at first she was just kind of like, "I don't see the issue really! We were only chatting and none of it said anything revealing" "If we were seeing each other do you think I'd use messenger??" She was adamant nothing ever happened but in my heart I truly believe something has. I don't know if it's from when I first met her when she was going out with her ex on nights out, coming back and reminding me of the hurt she did to me.

She also recently quit smoking for good, shes had medical help and everything. She's stopped for over a year, but over the past couple of weeks I've started to smell smoke in her car and on her clothes. She always comes in from work now stinking of perfume, like shes hiding it. The other night she went out and she confessed she'd just had one 'cig' with the lads, but when she opened her bag drunk there was a full pack! Now, I never told her to quit at all. She decided to do it, but its just odd all the secrecy with the messages, sleeping with people rumours and now the cigarettes. I haven't confronted her about the smoking, as i want to see if she will be honest with me but shes just not saying anything which is raising my suspicion...if shes lying about that then is she lying about other things?

I'm really, really confused. I feel like I did when we first met, although now we have to kids and an house. It's a difficult situation, I'm either completely off the ball with this one or she's pulling the wool well and truly over my eyes.

Sorry for the essay, I just needed to get that all out xx

Thanks, Simon


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: HI*

Uh, yep...

Serial cheat.

She may have had a short cheating break a few times, but back to it she is drawn.

She has drawn a picture in your mind and in ours.

In that picture she is getting her fill of men, her fill of tobacco and her fill of illicit drugs, maybe pot.

She needs that fix, must have it.

A smoke fix, a strange penis fix.

You need to fix her good. 
Leave her to her own smoky deception and smoky devices.

She is going to get you fixed up with some STD.

Sorry you are here.

Divorce her.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: HI*

Many things are intoxicating.

Sex.
Tobacco, pot

Many things are addictive.

Diks.
Drugs.
Illicit affairs.

She has an addictive personality.
She is addicted to men and their attention.
Especially the hard stand-tall variety.
This is what she craves.

Rather than fret over it and try to change her.

Exchange her......for a loyal woman.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

*Re: HI*

Like I said it's just really odd. I don't think she's doing any drugs now, as the drugs she was taking all those years ago were pretty serious stuff and I'd spot it from a mile.

I do believe she has cheated though, everything is just too obvious.

I don't know what I've done to deserve it if so. I look after our children, I cook, I clean and earn a good salary. Maybe that's it though, maybe she's got exactly what she wants but she wants more and always has done.

She's out this Friday on her works Xmas party, it will be interesting to see what happens and how she is when she comes back.

Thanks


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your wife is completely out of line here. I hate to say this, but this was easy to see coming, based on the awful beginnings of your relationship. She has no boundaries, and no respect for you as her husband. The fact that she has you feeling like you did all those years ago is telling, and you need to let her know that this is where you are. She needs to cut contact with Danny and any other men she is communicating with, and the two of you need to get into therapy STAT if there is any chance of saving this. You should get into detective mode or hire a PI to try and find out the truth about Nick from work and if they really did have something going. 

Honestly though, sad to say, I don't feel that she loves or respects you enough to put in the work. You deserve a wife who puts you first, and she isn't it.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

I agree wholeheartedly!

I'm obviously happy I have my two children from the relationship, but it is always in the back of my mind - always!

When I confronted her over the messages from Danny, it was if she put the blame on me as to why I a guy messaging and her messaging back is an issue? An the fact it went on for over a year is unbelievable! She did say she has deleted Danny from all contact, however she works in the same company as him and she has removed the messenger app from her iPad and hidden all her friends so nobody can see...why would you do that if you have nothing to hide??

She said she has never done anything with Nick, but I really don't know. I did say if she had that we would be over, she has a LOT to lose so she'd prob do and say anything to keep me.

She's at her works Xmas party on Friday and she's staying over. Danny will be there, however Nick has left the company so who knows....


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Doesn't sound like she is pulling the wool over your eyes very well. Where there is smoke, there is fire.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fred_the_red said:


> I agree wholeheartedly!
> 
> I'm obviously happy I have my two children from the relationship, but it is always in the back of my mind - always!
> 
> ...


And WHY will you not be at the Xmas party?? Sorry but her staying over?? WTH is that about? That to me is 100% unacceptable! Time to put your foot down sir. Let her know she is more than welcome to go to the party and stay all night, but she isn't welcome back in your house afterward if she does.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Apparently it's 'employees' only and no couples. The party is in another part of the country, so her employer pays for the hotels etc. There are around 100 people who will be going to this party.

She never invites me to these parties. The last one I got invited to was her co-workers wedding reception and I was on my own most of the night as she was outside with the 'lads' having a cig. Her female work colleagues spent most of the night saying who is the 'hottest' in their works, with me sat right there. Maybe the alarm bells have been ringing for a long time and I've been too blinkered to see it.

If I'm honest whenever I do go out and there's a group of us, I usually sit there twiddling my thumbs as she wanders off.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

*Re: HI*

I would invest in a PI to cover the Christmas party and other times you know she will be gone. Then you will have irrefutable evidence. Don't confront until you have evidence. Your gut is howling and is usually right.

Just in case:

The standard evidence gathering post...is slow to load--read and decide what works for you.

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ence-post.html


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

*Re: HI*

Thank you


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Good lord, what kind of classless organization does she work for? Sending employees across country without spouses for a party?? Female colleagues openly gushing on about male colleagues? It all sounds very unprofessional.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

You just need to get away. She is a bad person, you are a nice guy(not in a good way) and she has suckered you in from the beginning while doing whatever and whoever she wants.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Ask @EleGirl to merge your two threads...


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

It's the kind of organization you can imagine! They will all get drunk and someone will sleep with someone in the office and it will be the talk of their works next week. When it's your wifes name that gets banded about the office then you do start to worry, especially when she had one guy (Danny) messaging her for over a year.

I guarantee if I said something she would say I'm being paranoid. She still uses the fact I looked at her messages against me when it was her at fault.

I'm so glad I posted on here and had a bit of feedback, it's so hard to speak out when you get so deep into a relationship.

Thank you


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: HI*



fred_the_red said:


> Like I said it's just really odd. I don't think she's doing any drugs now, as the drugs she was taking all those years ago were pretty serious stuff and I'd spot it from a mile.
> 
> *I do believe she has cheated though, everything is just too obvious.*
> 
> ...


Yes, it IS rather obvious.

What is not obvious is your reaction.

If you catch her and believe me you will, what is your plan?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You’re chasing her and she should be chasing you. 

Download the book MARRED MAN SEX LFE PRIMER. You’re missing out on basic human nature. 

Who takes care f the house etc. 

While she is out go through the whole house with a fine tooth comb. Check old phones and see if she has sexy underwear you have never seen her wear.

Look up the investigation thread in the CWI section. Work affairs are very difficult to catch. Hiding her phone contacts etc is wrong. If she had nothing to hide she would not be hiding things.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Do yourself a favor and get a PI on her --- try for the Christmas party if possible. Do it ASAP.
Also get yourself some Voice Activated Recorders and place them around where she might have phone conversations that you can't overhear (car, etc.).

This seems REALLY dodgy and I think, unfortunately, your fears are justified.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

I am kind of surprised that no one has said it yet , unless I missed it. 

Your wife has been cheating on you from the time you met her, you realize that, right? 

The party at the hotel is going to be a sex fest. 

I know you have has suspicions but you get that you should already be divorced. Oh, and she does not have sex with you because she does not what to cheat on her boyfriend(s). 

Why have you not divorced her yet????


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think you married a party girl. You and the kids will never be as important as her good times. I will go as far as saying you, the kids and the marriage are a serious inconveinious to her so expect things to get worse. I will also second what has already been said, she almost certainly has cheated on you. Her lack of boundaries and party girl attitude is the perfect scenario for cheating.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

*Re: HI*



SunCMars said:


> Yes, it IS rather obvious.
> 
> What is not obvious is your reaction.
> 
> If you catch her and believe me you will, what is your plan?


I have no idea really! If it was just me I'd be out of here already I think, but I have my young girls to think of. The UK laws are pretty poor for protecting fathers, even if a woman has cheated and they break up, the kids almost instantly go with the mother. I've known a few dads who've had to fight so hard to get their kids. I'd do the same don't get me wrong, I just need to be 100% knowing she's cheating.

It's so hard when there's kids involved as well.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I am kind of surprised that no one has said it yet , unless I missed it.
> 
> Your wife has been cheating on you from the time you met her, you realize that, right?
> 
> ...


I know, and deep down that's what hurts the most, knowing that she's been behind my back from the very start of our relationship.

The things she's doing and the messages on messenger last year certainly point in only one direction. Why was she messaging him back? Why lead this guy on? They were messaging for over a year! She acted all innocent when asked, but I know exactly what she was doing. Her response was basically, there is no evidence there of any wrong doing so prove I did something! She didn't apologize for messaging another guy or for leading him on.

Even tonight she seems so distant, no kiss as she went to bed. No kiss when she came in from work, I had to kiss her.

I have tried my best and I'm so laid back I think that's probably the issue!

I've actually just now checked Facebook and searched for this Danny and my wife is still his friend although she said she would delete him...

I don't understand anymore and I'm getting too old for games.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@fred_the_red

I moved all the replies you got from the New Member forum to this thread. So you still have a short "Hi" thread in New Members.

You will get better responses if there is one thread. 

Happy Posting! :nerd:


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Fred, 

The Christmas party is cover. Is there really a Christmas party? I find it hard to believe her company would go far away, unless you are in Belgium LOL. She is stringing you along and you know it or you would not be posting on here. Get a PI, snag some solid evidence, confront, and dump. This is a very dysfunctional arrangement you have.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Hi Fred,

There is some good news. The good news is that you seem to be actively listening and comprehending what people are telling you. You would be surprised how many people don't make it this far.

Outside of the things she is doing when you are not around is that fact that your relationship is dead. Do the things you can to move on in life and leave her behind. It is going to be a hard thing to

swallow but it sounds like you have been "plan B" guy for a long time.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> @fred_the_red
> 
> I moved all the replies you got from the New Member forum to this thread. So you still have a short "Hi" thread in New Members.
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Hi Fred,
> 
> There is some good news. The good news is that you seem to be actively listening and comprehending what people are telling you. You would be surprised how many people don't make it this far.
> 
> ...


You are right! In my gut and heart I truly believe that something has happened. I'm just finding it difficult to get my head around why someone would do that? I do almost everything in the house, but again maybe that's it, she just wants her cake!

I know the warning signs were there right from the very start (15 years ago) when she lived with her ex. She initially chose him over me, and to be fair she admits that.

Her recent lying over smoking and trying to 'cover' that up, is making me think there could be more there. Why is she so secretive over it? Why can't she just be honest and tell me she's started smoking again? I'm not a bad person and it's up to her if she wants to smoke. Maybe she likes the thrill of me not knowing, which if that's the case is very worrying.

I need some hard evidence, but that's going to be difficult. I could pull her up over the smoking and why she is so secretive over it and also ask why she's hid all her friends on FB and still friends with this Danny, after she promised to delete him....


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I'm sorry Fred but the signs are ....VERY...VERY...VERY BAD.

So like all that find themselves here you are interested in finding the smoking gun. I can promise you that you will find it very soon. The best approach is NEVER CONFRONT !!!!!!!

EARS OPEN AND MOUTH SHUT!!!

There is a lot bigger problems than smoking going on ...... and this is what you will find.

If you REALLY want to get to the bottom of things quickly and precisely hire a PI. 

You need decisive planning and action.

All the signs are there and clear. Everyone reading your story already knows where this is headed. Prepare yourself for that truth...it's coming.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

"In my gut and heart I truly believe that something has happened."

Because it absolutely has.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Fred,
> 
> The Christmas party is cover. Is there really a Christmas party? I find it hard to believe her company would go far away, unless you are in Belgium LOL. She is stringing you along and you know it or you would not be posting on here. Get a PI, snag some solid evidence, confront, and dump. This is a very dysfunctional arrangement you have.


Yep there is a party, her company is multinational so they have to pick a destination that suits everyone, so the company book the hotels for the people who have to travel to the destination. It's only around 50miles away but a taxi would cost more than a hotel room, so they just book the rooms for the employees.

What I also don't get is she's bought a special dress, shoes and a handbag to match. Now don't get me wrong women should be allowed to dress in whatever they want, especially to a party, but she's making extra effort for this particular party. I've been to parties before with her and she's never bought a new dress etc like this. Who is she trying to impress?

I know I shouldn't have (and I know it's bad!) but I installed messenger back onto her iPad and logged in just to see if she'd been speaking to this Danny, and there was one message from him in Sept of this year saying "Well done on your job promotion x" my wife responded with a "Thanks ". That has been left on her messages and she didn't delete....Now as I've said previously, she promised she would have no contact with him since their last message marathon and told me she deleted him but there is still some contact and they are still friends.

I know if she was speaking to him constantly she'd be using something else, as she poss knows I'll find away to get onto messenger, so why be so dumb into leaving this message on there? Or maybe she's being clever...god knows!!

I definitely think there is something there, I wouldn't dare post on anywhere if I didn't have a suspicion. I thought about telling a family member, but it's really difficult as there will be no way back then and I need something solid, so posting on somewhere like here where it's neutral seemed the best option and I really appreciate everybody's contributions


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Fred,
> 
> The Christmas party is cover. Is there really a Christmas party? I find it hard to believe her company would go far away, unless you are in Belgium LOL. She is stringing you along and you know it or you would not be posting on here. Get a PI, snag some solid evidence, confront, and dump. This is a very dysfunctional arrangement you have.


You would be surprised how many firms in the UK do this. Have a party near corporate HQ. And how much sex happens.

Banking, for example, is notorious for it.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

"I thought about telling a family member"

Now is not the time ...... but that time will come.

"I know I shouldn't have" ...... BS !!! She is running around on you...you deserve the truth.


EARS OPEN AND MOUTH SHUT!!!

Hire the PI.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> I'm sorry Fred but the signs are ....VERY...VERY...VERY BAD.
> 
> So like all that find themselves here you are interested in finding the smoking gun. I can promise you that you will find it very soon. The best approach is NEVER CONFRONT !!!!!!!
> 
> ...


I'm taking everything in and trying to act a bit 'dumb' as if nothing is going on. There is so much at stake here that I really need solid evidence.

Last year (from her messages with Danny) her words were "Look through all those messages, there's nothing saying I'm seeing him or saying I actually slept with Nick". Although the messages did say she'd (rumored via office gossip) 'shagged' Nick and also 'shagged' this Danny. They were openly chatting about it, but again there was nothing 100% concrete.

It's only the fact she still remains friends and has had contact off him, that I think there could be more. He's going to be at this party on Friday and I think something will come ahead this weekend. This is what I'm quite frightened of.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I don't blame you....your gut is screaming.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

It's only Tuesday ....Get the PI now!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Just search Google for UK based private detectives.

There is a professional body covering PIs in the UK.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> Just search Google for UK based private detectives.
> 
> There is a professional body covering PIs in the UK.


Thanks


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

fred_the_red said:


> Last year (from her messages with Danny) her words were "Look through all those messages, there's nothing saying I'm seeing him or saying I actually slept with Nick". Although the messages did say she'd (rumored via office gossip) 'shagged' Nick and also 'shagged' this Danny. They were openly chatting about it, but again there was nothing 100% concrete.


Notice that she says there are no MESSAGES saying she actually was seeing him or slept with him -- she didn't categorically deny that she did. She should have flat out said "I did NOT sleep with..." or "I did not go out with....".

Really get a PI for proof, and start looking at good Lawyers who have track records with helping men get a good custody agreement.... Start getting your finances in order as well.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

fred_the_red said:


> Thanks


You are most welcome, Fred.

I am guessing your name is all about football?

That's real football, of course!


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> I don't blame you....your gut is screaming.


It is and I think a PI would be the way to go. It's not good constantly feeling like this, when your gut, head and heart are on the same wavelength you know there's trouble!


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> You are most welcome, Fred.
> 
> I am guessing your name is all about football?
> 
> That's real football, of course!


Of course! Ha ha


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> Notice that she says there are no MESSAGES saying she actually was seeing him or slept with him -- she didn't categorically deny that she did. She should have flat out said "I did NOT sleep with..." or "I did not go out with....".
> 
> Really get a PI for proof, and start looking at good Lawyers who have track records with helping men get a good custody agreement.... Start getting your finances in order as well.


Thank you.

You all don't know how appreciated your comments are  Not one person has said I sound like I'm being paranoid or possessive or anything like that, you don't know how relieving it is hear people say the same as what I'm thinking. In a way I prob would have hoped it would have been me just being paranoid, but there are too many things to ignore.

It's taken time and guts to ask peoples opinions, I've gone over and over again in my head and more often than not I've thought I'm just being silly, but I always come back to feeling like there is something not quite right.

Her behavior isn't right and the secrecy over her smoking to me is saying she has more secrets that she wants to keep from me. I mean smoking is such a small thing, if she's keeping that secret then I really don't know her anymore. She may not want the kids to know shes back on the cigs, but why not confide in me? I'm her husband.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

fred_the_red said:


> Of course! Ha ha


I was posting from the Metro and am now in my office two minutes walk from The Liver Building!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

To deny the truth in situations like this is only natural. It happens to everyone. Even when the facts are so clear the mind can make rationalizations as a protection mechanism. 
It is the same thing when people block out traumatic events in their life. You are quite lucky that you are not as cloudy in the head as a lot of people we see here. Due to this fact
alone you have a good chance to acquire the information your looking for.

Keep this in mind: Even if you don't get what your looking for, are you in a relationship that you want to have for the rest of your life? You already know the answer.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Not to keep poking you with a stick but keep this in mind:

Everyone in your circle of life very likely already have her figured out for who she is...they just aren't telling you.

ears open....mouth shut.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Mr.Married said:


> Not to keep poking you with a stick but keep this in mind:
> 
> *Everyone in your circle of life very likely already have her figured out for who she is...they just aren't telling you.
> *
> ears open....mouth shut.


That's why when all is said and done, he needs to purge those who knew what she was up to.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Not to keep poking you with a stick but keep this in mind:
> 
> Everyone in your circle of life very likely already have her figured out for who she is...they just aren't telling you.
> 
> ears open....mouth shut.


I think you're pretty much spot on. I went out last year on a 'college reunion', my wife came with me and met all my college friends for the first time. Later that night one of my friends said "does she always leave you on your own like this??" after my wife basically left me on my own whilst she went a dancing for over an hour...it's something small again but for my friend to say that only after a few hours of meeting her says a lot.

All the little things create a bigger picture and thinking about it I can't remember going to a party and her not wandering off for a cigarette or a dance whilst leaving me for a considerable amount of time. I'm not that boring? Ha ha I wouldn't think of doing that to her!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The layers slowly peel away ..... your drifting in the right direction.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm so sorry for you freddy but you did not marry a 'keeper'.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

If your an efficiency type of guy I'll give you the short version of every man/woman that comes from your situation in this entire website:

Their partner cheated and they wish they would have smarted up earlier instead of wasting all those years of life. The End.

Go get that PI.

There is one good part....as soon as you turn the tables of power your gonna get the best sex of your life from her ..... don't fall for it.

Edit: Don't forget that you also need to go get tested for STD's.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> If your an efficiency type of guy I'll give you the short version of every man/woman that comes from your situation in this entire website:
> 
> Their partner cheated and they wish they would have smarted up earlier instead of wasting all those years of life. The End.


I totally agree. I've felt like this for a long, long time. There was always some uncertainty, but over the past 12 months it's started to raise it head even more so, especially with the FB messages etc and recent smoking secrecy.

I don't get why though? If she has (which I'm pretty certain of) why has she done it? Why do people do it? The secrecy of everything is what gets me. Why can't she be just honest about it all! The smoking is a small factor in a massive situation, but it stands out just as badly because she's keeping it secret and trying to cover it up.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You are NEVER going to get to know WHY. Pretty much its pure selfishness and ego. She sounds like someone you never should have married in the first place, but of course you cant change history. Try not to focus on WHY, because its nothing but a frustrating waste of your energy and emotion.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

When my husband has a work obligation that involves a stay in a hotel, we pay to get our own room, or whatever the difference is from what the company pays. Why don't you get a room where the party is being held? If she asks why, tell her you saw it as a great chance for a romantic evening for the two of you. If she flips out, there is a reason she doesn't want you there, and it's not a good one.

I won't say she is cheating, because there are no absolute examples that she has done so. There are a lot of questionable circumstances, and actions on her part. When you looked up Danny on Facebook, did you use her profile? If not, he wouldn't be blocked on yours. If you have access to her Facebook, she is comfortable with whatever you may find there. Go through her phone, and see what apps she has downloaded. Is she using WhatsApp, Snapchat, or any other chat/messenger programs? Go through her list of phone numbers, and pay the fee for Spokeo, and verify that the names match. When checking her contacts, make sure to open each one to look for notes, or other information that doesn't show up on the standard contact list.

If you are tech savvy, or know someone who is, put a tracking program on her phone, and a key logger. That way you will know where she is, and everything she types. Instead of spending time guessing, find ways to prove things one way or another. When she walks in smelling like smoke, ask her "are you smoking again, because you reek of smoke" You aren't giving anything away when you ask her about smoking, but if she gets defensive, there is a good chance she will reveal more than she meant to. Call her on the little, obvious, things, and unless she is really good at lying, she will slip up.

Have a few drinks after dinner with her, see if she will start confessing. It seems like a sneaky way to get information from your wife, but you should be able to enjoy a few drinks with her. If she chooses to admit, confess, or divulge things she has been hiding, don't react, just keep track of what she says. Record her with your cellphone if she starts confessing, o talking about things she had lied about, or omitted, previously.

Now, for you, get into some IC. You need someone you can talk to about everything who isn't going to bash on your wife. You need unbiased support, and someone who will help you work through all of the emotions and thoughts that this situation has created. Best of luck to you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think you need to show up at the party, or at the very least, to the hotel.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You will never come to grasp the why....best to get that understood now.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Ed3n said:


> When my husband has a work obligation that involves a stay in a hotel, we pay to get our own room, or whatever the difference is from what the company pays. Why don't you get a room where the party is being held? If she asks why, tell her you saw it as a great chance for a romantic evening for the two of you. If she flips out, there is a reason she doesn't want you there, and it's not a good one.
> 
> I won't say she is cheating, because there are no absolute examples that she has done so. There are a lot of questionable circumstances, and actions on her part. When you looked up Danny on Facebook, did you use her profile? If not, he wouldn't be blocked on yours. If you have access to her Facebook, she is comfortable with whatever you may find there. Go through her phone, and see what apps she has downloaded. Is she using WhatsApp, Snapchat, or any other chat/messenger programs? Go through her list of phone numbers, and pay the fee for Spokeo, and verify that the names match. When checking her contacts, make sure to open each one to look for notes, or other information that doesn't show up on the standard contact list.
> 
> ...



HELL NO !!!!!! MOUTH SHUT...EARS OPEN.......she will only dive deeper into secrecy if you talk. This has been proven over and over here. DON"T SAY JACK SQUAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She will never have a good evening with him if he shows up.....she'll be pissed....for sure!!


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Ed3n said:


> When my husband has a work obligation that involves a stay in a hotel, we pay to get our own room, or whatever the difference is from what the company pays. Why don't you get a room where the party is being held? If she asks why, tell her you saw it as a great chance for a romantic evening for the two of you. If she flips out, there is a reason she doesn't want you there, and it's not a good one.
> 
> I won't say she is cheating, because there are no absolute examples that she has done so. There are a lot of questionable circumstances, and actions on her part. When you looked up Danny on Facebook, did you use her profile? If not, he wouldn't be blocked on yours. If you have access to her Facebook, she is comfortable with whatever you may find there. Go through her phone, and see what apps she has downloaded. Is she using WhatsApp, Snapchat, or any other chat/messenger programs? Go through her list of phone numbers, and pay the fee for Spokeo, and verify that the names match. When checking her contacts, make sure to open each one to look for notes, or other information that doesn't show up on the standard contact list.
> 
> ...


Thank you 

Regarding the hotel, she wouldn't be happy if I tried to arrange a room I can almost guarantee that! If I turned up she would be the same, very, very annoyed. I just know that's how she would react. She would say I'm 'spying' on her.

Danny's name came up on my profile randomly the other day saying he has a mutual friend which was my wife! I went on her profile last night and confirms they are friends and he sent her a message back in Sept saying congrats with her new job. This message is still in her inbox on FB.....


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

The smoking bothers you because it confirms she is a liar. You KNOW this and it lends confirmation toward your other fears. It is difficult for you to TAKE ACTION, but please do so. A PI would be the best course of action--NOW. 

DON"T focus on the why (even though it is hard). When one focuses on the why, it is because they think maybe they can 'fix' things. That ship has sailed. There is so much that you can't even begin to know. You are aware of what you need to do--so do it, please.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

sunsetmist said:


> The smoking bothers you because it confirms she is a liar. You KNOW this and it lends confirmation toward your other fears. It is difficult for you to TAKE ACTION, but please do so. A PI would be the best course of action--NOW.
> 
> DON"T focus on the why (even though it is hard). When one focuses on the why, it is because they think maybe they can 'fix' things. That ship has sailed. There is so much that you can't even begin to know. You are aware of what you need to do--so do it, please.


Yep, I think that's it. It's more the fact that I know she is keeping something from me. Covering up the fact she's smoking and trying not to give anything away. Plus also lying about deleting this 'Danny' from FB and then he's still on her friends list, and not only that he's communicated with her via messenger again, although it wasn't anything too suspicious it still goes against what we agreed after the argument over their messages.

They are only small matters it may seem, but they all mount up and build an untrustworthy picture. To me trust is what a relationship should be built on, she obviously doesn't trust me to tell me the truth of her smoking or contact with this Danny, and I don't trust her.

I'm going to keep my mouth shut for now and look into a PI, she's away again today/tonight for training. And then away on Friday at her works Xmas party. I haven't been able to eat properly today as I think it's the sudden realization of the situation, I just need to keep my head and try not to lose it. I'm hoping I can arrange a PI to be there for the party, either way I think this weekend will be telling...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fred_the_red said:


> I'm going to keep my mouth shut for now and look into a PI, she's away again today/tonight for training. And then away on Friday at her works Xmas party. I haven't been able to eat properly today as I think it's the sudden realization of the situation, I just need to keep my head and try not to lose it. *I'm hoping I can arrange a PI to be there for the party, either way I think this weekend will be telling...*


I think this is your best course of action. I hope you can get it arranged ASAP.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

This is a tough time for you. You must take care of yourself to be strong. Eating, sleeping, exercising are important--find ways to accomplish this--pre-prepared foods at hand, workout plans, etc. Beware of alcohol, depression, anxiety. You can do this!


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I've read another story that almost mirrors your's perfectly. Turned out the wife was cheating, spouses had always been invited to the company parties, and she was carrying on with a co-worker. 

@No Longer Lonely Husband 's story was similar as well, maybe he can chime in.

To reiterate two things: 1) Get the PI no matter what.
2) Do not even for a second try to rationalize why someone will lie and be deceitful. There is no rationalization (a "WHY") for it. The reason is they are selfish and care only about themselves and their pleasure. Your pain means nothing, not even on her radar. evident in her response to being caught texting Danny. 
She also pretty plainly said you have no proof, while never denying it.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I've read another story that almost mirrors your's perfectly. Turned out the wife was cheating, spouses had always been invited to the company parties, and she was carrying on with a co-worker.
> 
> @No Longer Lonely Husband 's story was similar as well, maybe he can chime in.
> 
> ...


Every single work Xmas party she has ever had, she's NEVER invited me. She's worked at over 7 different companies whilst I've been with her, not all would put a ban on the other half coming surely? It's just really odd!

She's put this Danny before me, why didn't she delete him? It was a request which I thought she understood? Even if he was instigating the messages 80% of the time, why not get rid to save your marriage? I think she enjoyed the messages and attention, dare I say it the chance I could find out. Now her 'secret' smoking is all part and parcel of a similar thing, another thing she's keeping secret from me.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

fred_the_red said:


> Every single work Xmas party she has ever had, she's NEVER invited me. She's worked at over 7 different companies whilst I've been with her, not all would put a ban on the other half coming surely? It's just really odd!
> 
> She's put this Danny before me, why didn't she delete him? It was a request which I thought she understood? Even if he was instigating the messages 80% of the time, *why not get rid to save your marriage*? I think she enjoyed the messages and attention, dare I say it the chance I could find out. Now her 'secret' smoking is all part and parcel of a similar thing, another thing she's keeping secret from me.


Somehow, I don't feel that she is invested in saving your marriage.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

sunsetmist said:


> Somehow, I don't feel that she is invested in saving your marriage.


Yep, it's an hard pill to swallow knowing this after 15 years, but it's true.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

fred_the_red said:


> Every single work Xmas party she has ever had, she's NEVER invited me. She's worked at over 7 different companies whilst I've been with her, not all would put a ban on the other half coming surely? It's just really odd!
> 
> She's put this Danny before me, why didn't she delete him? It was a request which I thought she understood? Even if he was instigating the messages 80% of the time, why not get rid to save your marriage? I think she enjoyed the messages and attention, dare I say it the chance I could find out. Now her 'secret' smoking is all part and parcel of a similar thing, another thing she's keeping secret from me.


Listen my brother, I get you the realizations that you are FINALLY coming to, really hurt. Lots of us have been there. 

What you need to understand is that your wife has been cheating on you the entire time you have been married. No, not just texting, not just meeting up, none of that. She has been screwing someone , besides you FOR THE ENTIRE MARRIAGE. 

I know that hurts to hear. You are her housekeeper. Her babysitter. Not her lover. 

When is the last time you guys had decent sex, if ever?

Look you are not invited to the parties because there is someone there she wants to screw, and it is not you. No company does that, she has lied from the beginning. 

As much as this hurts you need to understand that she does not love you, probably does not really like you that much. 

It is time for you to wake up, and file for divorce with the best lawyer you can find. 

Do the PI and catch her in the act. But whatever you do, man it is time to stop being a fool...


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> Listen my brother, I get you the realizations that you are FINALLY coming to, really hurt. Lots of us have been there.
> 
> What you need to understand is that your wife has been cheating on you the entire time you have been married. No, not just texting, not just meeting up, none of that. She has been screwing someone , besides you FOR THE ENTIRE MARRIAGE.
> 
> ...


I honestly can't remember when we had decent sex. Like I said she never initiates it, or is ever interested in it with me. When we do it's never the best if I'm honest.

I agree with the parties, there's no way partners are NEVER allowed. It is just an excuse. I'm pretty certain last year one of her work friends took her husband...

After being on here yesterday and posting, I just sat down in the lounge and looked at her whilst she was on her phone, she had no expression, nothing at all. The same when she came home yesterday, she just walked in, no kiss or how was your day. This has only started happening more recently and it's odd that it's started just as she's been smoking again.

She's been away today and tonight, did I get a text message or anything? Nope nothing at all, not even how are the kids. It's sad really, it's going to be tough I know it is, but I'm not really surprised. My daughter asked me the other day "you and mummy will never split up will you" even the kids sense something...


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Fred,

Been in your shoes. I went into detective mode and busted my wife at her company’s open house to which I was not invited. I sort of just crashed it and saw her AP and read his lips “what he doing here?”
I walked over to them, handed her my wine glass and said if you decide to come home tonight, I will be waiting. Boy howdy did she look like a deer in the headlights. Point is Fred, you got to go big or go home. I am going on three years of r as of Christmas Eve.

What is your objective? Divorce or Reconciliation? Your objective will determine your course of action.
If your intention is to save your marriage blow this **** up and blow it up in a major way. Get a PI to tail her to the party, and if it was me (I am a tad crazy and over the top) I would just show up try to be incognito and observe sort of an intel op. I would still have a PI working the gig, too. When you get the goods, be firm be inflexible and EXPOSE.

If your objective is to divorce, gather the goods, snag some photos and other corroborating evidence, and leverage it towards a settlement that tilts in your favor.

From your posts, I cannot discern what your desired course of action is. I will give you some advice, and that is to not be a doormat. Take no **** from her and be what she least expects.

My take is this party is an excuse for a rendezvous with her lover boy. Blow this circus up!


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

fred_the_red said:


> I honestly can't remember when we had decent sex. Like I said she never initiates it, or is ever interested in it with me. When we do it's never the best if I'm honest.
> 
> I agree with the parties, there's no way partners are NEVER allowed. It is just an excuse. I'm pretty certain last year one of her work friends took her husband...
> 
> ...


 She's checked out. They RARELY come back from that. Listen to what No Longer Lonely Husband is telling you, but be aware that he is a bit of a unicorn in that he is in a successful reconciliation. It will take her wanting the marriage as much as you and until she does you don't have a prayer of R. By blowing her affair fantasy world up you have a small chance of shocking her back into reality. If Divorce is the road you think you will take get your evidence and let her being served divorce papers be your confrontation. If you find her Other Man OM is married tell his wife right before you have your wife served. These are the 2 tried and true paths that seem to work the best from the stories on here.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Hey Fred,

I get the feeling your starting to let this junk get to you. I hope I'm wrong. Try to shake it off and think of this as your path to a better place.
The fact that your here and not doing the denial dance tells us your already headed in the right direction. Chin up.

You may find yourself having a hard time to buckle down and get that PI. It's the right action plan right now....just do it.

Head high ..... your gonna get through it.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Thanks for the messages everyone. Much appreciated.

Unfortunately last night I buckled and told her the situation and exactly how I feel. I know I should have kept my mouth shut, but I haven't been sleeping or eating properly so it all got the better of me.

She's denied any involvement with Danny or Nick and said that 'I' told her she can keep Danny on her FB friends list???!!! I obviously blew up after this and told her why would I do that?? The guy has tried to have an affair with my wife!! It was her who promised to delete him but she didn't...

I then went onto the smoking and she said she felt ashamed to tell me, and that I would make fun of her?? Why would I do that!

She also said she's going to cancel going to her works Xmas party to "keep your mind at rest", I said if you haven't done anything then why would I be worried?

I've told her to tell me the truth 100%, but she's adamant she hasn't done anything at all. I don't know if I've made things even worse, but my feelings got the better of me...


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

It happens to the best of them. Emotions are tough when they are working against you.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

fred_the_red said:


> Thanks for the messages everyone. Much appreciated.
> 
> Unfortunately last night I buckled and told her the situation and exactly how I feel. I know I should have kept my mouth shut, but I haven't been sleeping or eating properly so it all got the better of me.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you completely blew it. 

She is already cheating on you, now she will be even more underground.

The rest of you life will be misery from now on until she slips up and you can no longer be in denial. 

So welcome to the a sexless marriage, and living it out with a cheating wife. 

Good luck, you are going to need it...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Talk to a PI any way. Do you have access to her phone? In this country you can buy a voice activated recorder at Walmart for about sixty dollars. Velcro one to the underside of the drivers seat in her car. Put another one in the house where she would have a chat when you’re not there. If she is cheating she will talk to her boyfriend or a good friend about it.

Look up the gathering evidence thread here. 


You should feel bad about not following the advice you got. But almost everyone blows it. Confronting without evidence works about 1 in 500 times. Now that she is sure you’re suspicious she is going to be extra careful.

Do you have the password to her phone?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What you could do is tell her you’re sorry for doubting her and tell her to go to the party. THEN GET THE PI!!!!!!!!!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Read Bobert’s thread and see what a lousy sex life indicated.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

FieryHairedLady said:


> Doesn't sound like she is pulling *the wool *over your eyes very well. Where there is smoke, there is fire.


On this wool:

The wool is rather curly.
The wool is not from a lamb.
The wool is often kept sheared?
The wool is regularly matted down.
The wool is rubbed free from one part of her body.
The wool is generously shared, though not so enthusiastically with you.
The wool is kept nice and shiny, mostly untangled, from all of the hovering coxcombs.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> On this wool:
> 
> The wool is rather curly.
> The wool is not from a lamb.
> ...


There is more than one farmer in that barn for sure ......


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The no spouses at Chirstmas parties is a red herring. There are, however, plenty of other genuine red flags that she could well be cheating.

In the UK, the vast majority of work Chirstmas functions are no spouse events.

Mine on Friday is no spouses, too.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Are we placing bets that she ends up going to that party ?


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> Talk to a PI any way. Do you have access to her phone? In this country you can buy a voice activated recorder at Walmart for about sixty dollars. Velcro one to the underside of the drivers seat in her car. Put another one in the house where she would have a chat when you’re not there. If she is cheating she will talk to her boyfriend or a good friend about it.
> 
> Look up the gathering evidence thread here.
> 
> ...


I know, I do feel bad, my emotions got the better of me and I'll be the first to admit it 

I have access to her personal phone, but not her work phone. Her work phone would be the one which she would use, but I don't have access.

I can get a voice activated recorder off Amazon and put it in her car no problem, this would probably be the best route for now as I can hear exactly what she's saying. If I can get one in her car before her trip to the Xmas party I might just get something.

Like I said, she said shes 100% adamant nothing has ever happened, and that she's sorry for keeping her smoking a secret, but there is something odd about it all...

I want to see her reaction later when she gets back from work as I haven't actually spoken in person, it was a message I sent last night as I couldn't sleep and take anymore. I want to look in her eyes and see what she says.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Are we placing bets that she ends up going to that party ?


She will, she's used the "I won't go as I don't want to upset you" already, knowing I will say I want you to go, which I have as I want to try and reconcile something from my stupid big mouth! lol


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Fred,

Your unfortunately not getting the message like I thought.

Cheaters lie.....do you understand this.

I'll say it again ...... YOU WILL NOT GET THE INFORMATION YOU WANT OUT OF HER MOUTH AND EVERY TIME YOU TRY SHE WILL BURY IT FURTHER. YOU ARE SCREWING YOURSELF REALLY BAD.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

fred_the_red said:


> I totally agree. I've felt like this for a long, long time. There was always some uncertainty, but over the past 12 months it's started to raise it head even more so, especially with the FB messages etc and recent smoking secrecy.
> 
> I don't get why though? If she has (which I'm pretty certain of) why has she done it? Why do people do it? The secrecy of everything is what gets me. Why can't she be just honest about it all! The smoking is a small factor in a massive situation, but it stands out just as badly because she's keeping it secret and trying to cover it up.



On smoke:

If you follow the smoke you will find the fire. :|
If you carefully follow the smoke you will likely find that her new lover also inhales smoke.

And this POSOM also shares her lips, the same ones that tug on tobacco and other short stalks.

Remember, if you do not smoke it is not pleasant to French kiss another who does.
But, if you both smoke, the unpleasant problem is solved.

Or.......

She has not resumed smoking, though her lover reeks of it, transferring the oily film to her clothes.

You are smelling the residual; the before occupying, lung, throat and mouthed smoke from her other lover.
Ach! You are smelling him on her. :frown2:


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, you completely blew it.
> 
> She is already cheating on you, now she will be even more underground.
> 
> ...


BluesPower is right. Unfortunately, all you did was give her a huge heads up when you told her everything. Now she knows what you suspect, why you suspect it, and what means and methods you've used in order to come to the conclusions you came to. Now she knows what NOT to do to further give herself away. 

Secondly, she's merely APPEASING you by supposedly canceling her rendezvous/Christmas party trip. But then again, if you blabbed to her that you were thinking of hiring a PI to spy on her while she was away at Sexfest 2018, that would be another reason why she'd so happily cancel her trip. Either way, she's only doing it to throw you off the trail and to give you a false sense of security so you _think _you're number #1 again and you're her first priority. When she's got you back into a state of ignorant bliss, she and her latest boy toy will have a good chuckle about it, I'm sure.

From the sounds of it, she'd have a REAL tough time being the *primary* parent to her own kids what with her constant running off for supposed 'work' commitments every chance she gets, so I wouldn't be so sure Mother of the Year would be happy to have full custody if you divorced her ass (which you _should_).

Lastly, your passivity shines through in every one of your posts. That's what gotten you steamrolled for YEARS. It's painfully clear that she's in charge and it's THAT edge that she's used for a long, long time to do whatever the hell she pleases because she knows you'll stay no matter what and will settle for precious little - because you have for so long now.

I think it's time to man up and start controlling this situation. And the FIRST thing you need to do is stop doing the "Pick Me Dance." There is just NO dignity in jumping around begging her to love you but there's a whole lot of dignity in refusing to deal with her bull**** *one day longer*.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Fred,
> 
> Your unfortunately not getting the message like I thought.
> 
> ...


I know and I think I understand, but I did screw it really, and I'm really unhappy I did but I got emotional and couldn't hold it back. I wanted to shock her and see what her reaction would be. My message was "we need to talk when you get back tomorrow". She insisted that I tell her straight away. She's insisting that she never slept with this Danny, but could this be a pawn. I mean she could be seeing someone else who I don't even know about?? and using this now as a smokescreen for her other activities.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> BluesPower is right. Unfortunately, all you did was give her a huge heads up when you told her everything. Now she knows what you suspect, why you suspect it, and what means and methods you've used in order to come to the conclusions you came to. Now she knows what NOT to do to further give herself away.
> 
> Secondly, she's merely APPEASING you by supposedly canceling her rendezvous/Christmas party trip. But then again, if you blabbed to her that you were thinking of hiring a PI to spy on her while she was away at Sexfest 2018, that would be another reason why she'd so happily cancel her trip. Either way, she's only doing it to throw you off the trail and to give you a false sense of security so you _think _you're number #1 again and you're her first priority. When she's got you back into a state of ignorant bliss, she and her latest boy toy will have a good chuckle about it, I'm sure.
> 
> ...


I know, I went against all the feedback I was given and I'm gutted I opened my mouth, but my emotions were high. And YET AGAIN I'm back to square one, the same as last year when I confronted her.

I agree with pretty much all that's been said above. You are right I am too passive and I really need to take control. When accusing her, not once has she gone mad at me, she's answered everything so eloquently with precision, kind of knowing it was coming.

Her last message was "I'm so annoyed with myself, I don't know how to make you trust me. And it's over something so stupid (smoking, not the lying) that I just want to cry..."

One other message about not telling me about her smoking: "It was the shame, it's hard to explain as you're so good, and have no foibles. I feel like I've let you down with it..."


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Fred,

Lets get real here. Your not gonna do jack squat. She's gonna run off to the party to get nailed and your not gonna get that PI.

Edit: Don't forget to wash the dishes while she is out.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Fred,
> 
> Lets get real here. Your not gonna do jack squat. She's gonna run off to the party to get nailed and your not gonna get that PI.
> 
> Edit: Don't forget to wash the dishes while she is out.


I have looked into a PI and here in the UK they charged over £700, which I can't afford at present. The only cheaper alternative would be to bug her car.

I know I have messed up by opening my mouth, and like many have said I've given her back control. She will use the party now as "I won't go go if you don't want me to" fully knowing I will tell her to go.

I believe her fear is that if she ever admitted anything I would divorce her in a heartbeat, leaving her with nothing and no husband to do everything for her.

I know I'll be a regular on here and it will eventually come to a post where I get something on her, the only thing is this could now go on for a while 

Why are relationships so complicated??!!


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Here's a simple thing to do right now, in the current situation.

Tell her not to go. It is simple, do not back down, call her bluff. You think she knows you will back down, so don't. Say, I do not want you to go, I do not want you out at night anymore, I want you home, I want you with me and I want us to be a couple.

Not in a controlling way, but in a way that couples do stuff together, not spend all of their time apart. When does she parent the children? She seems to be out more nights than she is home, doing who knows what.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The passive ones are so tough to help.

Tasorundo: While I would agree with your advice if he was at the turning point, he isn't anywhere even close to that yet. It would be another "She just went anyways." That has about as much chance of working as him understanding that the room mate before marriage was not gay.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I don't doubt that you are correct. I wanted to be the good cop to your bad and give him a way to put his foot down right now. A way to show strength, push for change, and give this thing a chance to succeed.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Well, I've literally blown this well and truly up! I've just messaged this Danny and told him I have screenshots and told him that he was out of line messaging my wife and she was as well for leading him on. I also told him that I will send the screenshots to HIS wife. My wife didn't expect that! Either way I feel ten times better after that.

My wife will be sh*tting it now thinking his missus (whos just had a baby) will be contacting her.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

unless you don't really have any screenshots saying "were are nailing liking animals" which you do not. It will all get buttered over. I hope I'm wrong.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

....I may have gone too far but f*ck it. I'd already opened my stupid mouth, but least it will make things extra awkward for my wife now at work and if she decides to go to that Xmas party.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

fred_the_red said:


> Why are relationships so complicated??!!


Well, when you are a weak man, that cannot and will not respect himself, it is a matter of time before a wife like your starts screwing around. 

Your weakness, make you look pathetic to her and it has for a long time. She does not love you in the slightest. She never has. 

You are the baby sitter, and butler. 

But sure to was her panties out in cold water when she gets home from the party. They are going to have a lot of stuff on them, you need to had was them first...


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> unless you don't really have any screenshots saying "were are nailing liking animals" which you do not. It will all get buttered over. I hope I'm wrong.


Screenshot mentions a rumor of my wife sha**ing him. His wife would go mental I can almost guarantee it. My wife is not best pleased lets just say that lol


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

On one front you disrupted the BS between him and your wife....I understand why you would do that. The other side is it will make getting that smoking gun a lot harder.

At least you put your foot in her rear. It's gonna get ugly now....don't give in....that is what she is expecting you to do. She is going to butter this thing away and sweep that
junk right under the rug. It's what they all do.


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Tasorundo said:


> Here's a simple thing to do right now, in the current situation.
> 
> Tell her not to go. It is simple, do not back down, call her bluff. You think she knows you will back down, so don't. Say, I do not want you to go, I do not want you out at night anymore, I want you home, I want you with me and I want us to be a couple.
> 
> Not in a controlling way, but in a way that couples do stuff together, not spend all of their time apart. When does she parent the children? She seems to be out more nights than she is home, doing who knows what.


I've something a whole lot worse. This Danny will be at this party on Friday, so I message him directly and tell him I know the score and know the messages between him and my missus. He's married as well with a newborn. I have warned him that I am going to send his wife screenshots of all their conversations including the one where it mentions the rumor of my wife and him "sh*gging". His wife would contact my wife, he would get booted out and both of them could poss lose their jobs. My wife would not have been expecting me to do that, she thinks I'm soft and I wouldn't dare, well guess what I did!


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## fred_the_red (Dec 10, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> On one front you disrupted the BS between him and your wife....I understand why you would do that. The other side is it will make getting that smoking gun a lot harder.
> 
> At least you put your foot in her rear. It's gonna get ugly now....don't give in....that is what she is expecting you to do. She is going to butter this thing away and sweep that
> junk right under the rug. It's what they all do.


Without all of your help, I wouldn't have done it, but I feel so much better for doing it! I've actually grown some balls for once!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What if it isn’t Danny she’s shagging? Now you’re just bouncing around.

Download the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. Read it now and man up.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I've actually grown some balls for once!!


We are going to find out soon enough if just one or both.

Always take the position of power......you have no other chance......no chance at all if you do not.

We will throw mud in your face but it is for a reason ...... everyone wants to see you win. 

You blew it up with no concrete evidence .... that is going to be the tough part....especially if that is what it takes for you to get out of this crap.

Since you whistle blew early you need to be fine with moving on without that concrete proof and accept the other parts of your failed marriage as reason enough to move on.
Not having the smoking gun will haunt you for a long time if you do not get it. You sure in the hell will not get it from her mouth.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@fred_the_red 

I think since you confronted (and not even in person) way too early, that sending those screenshots is a decent move AS LONG AS YOU DO IT. Be aware though since you told your plan to Danny he will have fabricated a story already for his wife of a co-worker's crazy jealous husband who accuses everyone of sleeping with his wife. Bet on it. Also bet on the fact that as soon as your wife hung up with you from your confrontation call, she called Danny at first opportunity. Stop broadcasting your strategy, it just defeats the point of what you need to do and kicks the ladder out from under you. Flying boldly in the face of the advice given here is a recipe for misery and disaster. I know it's hard keeping it to yourself, but you must. Send the screenshots to OBS and see how long it takes to get a call from your wife. *DO NOT* tell your wife beforehand.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

fred_the_red said:


> Well, I've literally blown this well and truly up! I've just messaged this Danny and told him I have screenshots and told him that he was out of line messaging my wife and she was as well for leading him on. I also told him that I will send the screenshots to HIS wife. My wife didn't expect that! Either way I feel ten times better after that.
> 
> My wife will be sh*tting it now thinking his missus (whos just had a baby) will be contacting her.



What was Danny's reply to your call?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Arthur Putie is dead, replaced with John Bull


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

fred_the_red:

1. So far you have ignored the advice you have been given. *That is too bad as the knowledge and wisdom on this site is GOLD*.

2. All you have done is muddied the water so that no matter what the truth is,* you will not find it*.

3. You are congratulating yourself on your actions. *What have you accomplished? * 

4. I will not give you any advice because *I am sure you will do the exact opposite*.

5. Good luck. Y*ou will need it to come out of this with any sanity*.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Tasorundo said:


> Here's a simple thing to do right now, in the current situation.
> 
> Tell her not to go. It is simple, do not back down, call her bluff. You think she knows you will back down, so don't. Say, I do not want you to go, I do not want you out at night anymore, I want you home, I want you with me and I want us to be a couple.
> 
> Not in a controlling way, but in a way that couples do stuff together, not spend all of their time apart. When does she parent the children? She seems to be out more nights than she is home, doing who knows what.


I like this....

It will make it harder for her to cheat.
Harder makes it easier for you to catch her.

This will tell you how serious she really feels about your relationship.
I suspect she will stay home more, but will not really give up her out-of-sight activities.
You will get a half eaten can of peas-ment.

You see, soon, very soon there will be some emergency, some urgent reason to go out.
Know that this 'now rare outing' will be made good use of. 
Easy to catch her in a lie.....maybe her lying down on her backside.

Oh, she will leave early, come home late. Take off from some other scheduled time.

You will see fake doctors appointments, or the like. :|
Fake or extended shopping outings.

You, thinking she is at work, when she called off, or doing a half day.

She will be at work, just not with her employer. :surprise:

Apparently, 700 pounds is too much money to get rid of of a 65 kilo cheat. 
If you catch her it will be the best money that you ever spent.

Sooo....

At least buy the Voice Activated Recorder, VAR, and put it in her auto, or in the place she sits at in your flat and makes her calls.
Practice with the damn thing so that you do not come back empty eared. :frown2:


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

So, what do we all thinks is happening now?

The wife went ballistic over his threat and he is profusely apologizing and telling her to go on the trip?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I like it when these Waywards Gals go ball'istic.

They kick up an indignant fuss, they make their BS's balls go tic, tick TICK.

After they slap his willy, they then go silly.
Tick, tick, sticky.

Ouch!

When they do not get their way, they yell, they scream, they huff and puff.
They stomp out the door heading for their AP, their Affair per Portnoy.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

So what's going down Fred?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@fred_the_red would you like your thread moved to the more secure private section?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> I like this....
> 
> It will make it harder for her to cheat.
> Harder makes it easier for you to catch her.
> ...


There’s some cogent advice that you should follow, OP.
Well stated, SUn.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

It's Friday...he's helping her pack while she gives him a list of chores to do around the house while she is out. Good Boy....*pat on the head*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don’t see the point of insulting posters that don’t jump when folks give advice. Everyone here has their own path to follow. Whether one takes the slow road or the quick path, they all usually end n the same place.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> I don’t see the point of insulting posters that don’t jump when folks give advice. Everyone here has their own path to follow. Whether one takes the slow road or the quick path, they all usually end n the same place.


Have you ever noticed how police when interacting with you in public (like a traffic ticket) will do so in an emotionless state. It's because they don't want to cause any "action". 

If you take that same cop and put him in an interrogation room ..... 

Not everything is always as it seems.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Hey Fred, I hope your weekend went well. Honestly, I hope things are going ok. I know that we gave you a hard time in here, but we wish the best for you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Serial cheater ~ lose her post haste!*


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fred_the_red said:


> I know and I think I understand, but I did screw it really, and I'm really unhappy I did but I got emotional and couldn't hold it back. I wanted to shock her and see what her reaction would be. My message was "we need to talk when you get back tomorrow". She insisted that I tell her straight away. She's insisting that she never slept with this Danny, but could this be a pawn. I mean she could be seeing someone else who I don't even know about?? and using this now as a smokescreen for her other activities.


You're chasing the wrong herring here, fred. This isn't about what guy she's screwing; she can trip you up on that left and right and will most likely always win this argument unless you catch her in your bed with a guy.

The real issue is your sh*tty marriage. No sex, no attention, entitlement to act like a single person (no respect of you).

BECAUSE of your infatuation (lemme guess - she is gorgeous, right?), she has always run the marriage. Your Nice Guy persona basically put her up on a pedestal, you couldn't believe you were so lucky that she'd choose you, you were constantly subconsciously afraid she'd wise up and leave you, so you put up with it all. You may not have THOUGHT you were doing this, but if you sat down and really looked at your actions, you'll see this is true.

At any rate, the marriage has been weighted in her favor and she doesn't know anything else. Even if you were to put a VAR in her car and catch her talking to a guy about the sex they just had, it won't change anything because YOU are still trying to save the relationship which seems to have ONLY been good for 2 out of all the years.

Wanna know the secret to having a great marriage with tons of sex and a wife who adores you and works hard not to lose you (the opposite of what you have now)? It's simple: You have to be ready and willing to lose the marriage.

A FORMER Nice Guy will know he's a catch and will know he won't put up with the crap you've put up with, and he will inform the wife he's done - unless she can give him a reason to stay. And then you step back and watch her actions. 

She probably won't believe you, not until you start divorce proceedings. Even then, if you don't show consistent confidence and faith in leaving this waste of a marriage, she'll fight back. At each instance, you just shrug and say 'Do what you're gonna do; I'm either in a marriage worth saving or I'm leaving it.'

Do this enough, and she'll finally get the message. It may be too late, but she'll eventually figure out what she stands (stood) to lose.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So, he's been gone 5 days now. My guess is she's got him locked up in jail or something stupid. Oh well, you can take a horse to water...


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

Fred

If i was you i would put her **** on the lawn too . and contact her office and tell them you are going to be sueing them for sexaul harassment and mental angwish . i hope you did contact that guys wife and blow thing up . you have to stop being so passive and get mad as hell


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