# Would you give a cheater a THIRD chance ?



## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Hello all, I'm English , have been reading for weeks and plucking up courage to post 

I'm 15 years married with 2 sons , 12 and 10 . Im 46, he's 43. Both work (and hard)

Hubby and I were separated for year after a failed reconciliation following his affair (and some casual sex with other partners) 5y ago. It failed because he was still in contact with the other woman and because I accepted far too much of the blame. 

3m into the separation, hubby began the groundwork to start again, moving from a shared house into a flat alone nearby, no women and good parenting arrangements. He would have come back straight away but I wanted plenty of time to see how he would change and whether it was what I wanted. Still loved him to bits and those feelings never went away and eventually we agreed to live together again. 

To give us a fresh start in 2010 we moved house but in the same month we were signing for the new house and starting our reconciliation (much bigger mortgage as the area has better schools -v important in UK) hubby lost his job of 20+ years. He started working for a small firm at 17 eventually becoming its MD until the owner decided to close it during the recession. He was devastated but negotiated a payout and started his own company in the same field and we took the house. I have always worked, reducing to part time after the boys were born. The pressure of starting a business mid recession was huge and, rightly or wrongly, I gave him a lot of rope to do what he needed to get it off the ground. He worked long hours and spent long hours socialising with new contacts, accepting invitations and did very well really - creating a viable business in a hard sector mid recession. BUT I was left with house and kids and my own job 100% and we never really started work on the marriage side. 

After a year sex dwindled and I began to doubt him again - the late nights became too frequent and he started blaming me hugely saying I was complaining too much and too miserable to come home to (partly true ). Hard to explain but that year had passed in a blur of very hard work.

Again I didn't really tackle it because his father was diagnosed with cancer and it affected the family badly for nearly a year.

This takes us to 3m ago when it became clear that he wasn't just drowning his sorrows on the late nights. Coming home early hours turned into not until 9am or later and eventually he stopped denying that there was sex involved.

I did not know who , how long or how many and we had huge explosive rows as I tried to find out what was going on. Eventually I asked him to move out and he has found a flat (ludicrously expensive but thats another issue) but put off moving there as he didn't want to leave. He has admitted to another 2-3m relationship (supposedly ended) and 2 more casual encounters in last 12m. I forced him to start using the flat a few days ago but he still hasn't taken his stuff. I have packed and put it in garage

After his very first night there he came back to me saying how ashamed he was of the person he has become and offering everything to start again - counselling (always rejected), stop drinking (always dismissed as not a problem before), to give up any friends or places I am not comfortable with (always refused any concessions before) and an open phone (always glued to his backside as long as I've known him) and to start dating me and taking me away to work on us. None of this is prompted by me. That is his own offer.

Right now, most of me thinks there is too much for me to ever get over now. But a little bit of me doesn't want to give up. I think this is mainly because of my sons ( I married for life and only ever wanted a nuclear 2 parent family life) and the dire financial implications of building separate lives for us ( won't bother with details but it would be drastic) and which would again affect the boys. And I still love him (which seems insane to me)

Rational brain = he's damaged beyond repair and so is the marriage

Emotional brain = still a glimmer of hope for happy ever after for all 4 of us

There's loads more - there always is

But my question is would anyone even bother to think about trying again ?

I know there are some 'extremists' here and some polar opposite views but the black and white of theory is nothing compared to the 'grey' of experience.

All opinions welcome ... please


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

No, he will be unfaithful again in the future. He is a serial cheater and will not ever be able to stop cheating. 

My ex husband was a serial cheater. I left after I found out he was cheating. I thought it was one woman, but soon after found out it was several. These women were fighting over my ex.

He now is married and I know of 3 affairs he had with her, I'm sure there are more.

If your husband truly loved and cared for you, he would not cheat. It's best to move on.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

The sad thing is that you have become accustomed to all the signs and that these affairs have become part of the rhythm of your marriage. 

Rationally you have to know that this will happen again, so the only question is whether or not you can put up with it. Does the rest of the marriage make this periodic turmoil worth it?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

So sorry you have to be here, but you have come to the right place to sort it all out.

The question you might want to ask yourself is what is most important to YOU. The financial security? (Which also includes the disrespect). Having a two-parent household (While turning a blind-eye to your WS?) No matter how you toss the dice, your children will be effected by either a downgrade in their living quarters, or watching their father disrespect their mother, because kids actually do notice. You are their role model.

The first thing you will find here is that HE doesn't get to set the conditions - YOU do. As a BS (Betrayed Spouse), he owes you the courtesy of setting the conditions by which YOU will forgive him, not the other way around.

As to your question whether I would forgive him? Certainly not. The "third time" is NOT "the charm". He has learned nothing from the first two times, and has the nerve to tell you under what condition he will return. I would say "See ya!". Here in the USA, we get child support and sometimes even spousal support, which addresses the difference in income and levels the field, so to speak. I assume things are similar in the UK. I would suggest that you consider those options in order to raise your children in a comfortable manner.

You have much support and great advise here from many who have or are living your pain. Weight it all as from the voice of experience. And be kind to yourself. At this time you should be your prime concern and not him. Seems to me that this will continue to be an issue, and the question to you is whether you can live with it or not. Your being here suggests that you are unsure. You are weighing your options to find out what best suits you. I wish the best of luck to you and hope that others weigh in so that can make an informed decision.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

No.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I've reread my post and apologise for its length but given the speedy responses I must have made a certain amount of sense so will leave it if thats OK

To be clear he has said he will do whatever I want and the 'terms' were in response to me asking what he would offer to start with.

I feel like I'm living in a horror story and because I swept the last lot of unfaithfulness under the carpet its now come back as well to bite me on the bum ! 

Its sounds bizarre but our life aside from his ****head infidelity has been pretty good. We have worked hard for a good standard of living, had good holidays, lovely children. We all enjoy each other's company and get huge pleasure out of simple things just being a family - you know, a walk together, family, pets. Just this week we all got up at 5am to watch the Olympic Torch go past and still got that feelgood buzz of a shared memory despite everything else going on

I KNOW that I have been abused and badly but my children haven't and now it seems whatever we do they will be too


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

more Brits :woohoo:

sounds to me like you're hanging on because of the 'other things' - the holidays, the cars, the outings, the pretence of the happy family with the kids

but it's nothing if your husband is shagging other women, I'm sorry but I don't know how you can put up with that. Getting on well as a family is not enough!

I know some people do put up with it, I know they do it for years. But for me it's the ultimate betrayal

I wouldn't give someone a second chance let alone a third - he's just going to do it again, because he's done it a few times and there have been no consequences for him have there?

So what's the incentive for him to stop? Absolutely none


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> Would you give a cheater a THIRD chance ?




A 2x4 


> Once bitten, twice shy, third time - more fool you for being around



No matter what your husband says or does he will always be open to yet another affair. 

If you should choose to remain with him there have to be some heavy boundaries in place. He never has contact with members of the opposite sex, if he claims he has to for work , tough - your marriage is more important. 

As a protection to you see a lawyer and have your husband legally gift to you your house or something equally substantial.

You have two parallel tasks, make the cost of having an affair prohibitive, and secondly he does everything to evidence he is committed to and loves you. For a start he can sit with you and tell his parents and siblings of his adultery owning up to everything. Hand write NC letters to the OW's, these steps are but a few to help you and force him into a set of consequences. The NC letters should be posted "recorded mail" to the OW's.

Your not punishing your husband you are protecting yourself, your children and marriage.


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## Wanting1 (Apr 26, 2012)

I say give him a third chance. As long as your willing to give him a fourth chance, and a fifth one, then another, ad nauseum....


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> No.


:iagree::iagree:


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

When we make big mistakes in life, we usually learn from them. It seems to me that he isn't someone who learns from a mistake so huge that it had the potential to blow his family apart, because he went on to make the mistake again and, yet, again.

It really is a matter of what you feel you can and will tolerate from your H. Many, myself included, would prefer to rear children in a one parent family, than stay with a cheating spouse, allowing the children to experience the negative sort of behaviour your H is inflicting on his family. And make no mistake - your children will know...

I'm sorry you're going through this, and wish you well in whatever you decide to do.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Being cheated on once by a spouseis having to walk through the Gates of Hell and somehow you were able to survive and to forgive them and move on. The Second Time you have to again walk through the Gates of Hell but they attach a bungi cord to you and pull you back everytime they have an issue. The third time is when you decide to take up residency in hell because it is easier for the other reasons.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

It seems that working a lot has taken a serious toll on your marriage. It is something featured up front and center in your first post.

Just so you know, respected marriage experts (such as Dr. Harley of the His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters books) believe that to just stay afloat, a good marriage requires at a bare minimum 10 hours a week of one-on-one individual quality time ALONE with your spouse, while FIFTEEN HOURS is ideal. A marriage on the rocks needs 20 hours.

I am NOT faulting the fact that you were working hard through these tough times, or trying to put your children's education at a high priority, etc., or in any way blaming you for his stupid selfish choices. Lots of people work longer and harder and somehow they managed to remain loyal and faithful and loving.

These are the conditions under which I would try again, if I were you:

1. Being willing to spend at least 15 to 20 hours a week alone "dating" my husband and working on the marriage, to be scaled back to 15 only after things are in a good place.

2. That he would give up all drinking as you both see this as a problem. He is in some way self-medicating to handle the stress. It is likely affecting his choices and judgment. He probably needs to quit entirely and attend counseling for this alone.

3. He attends individual counseling.

4. You verify he isn't in contact with anyone and maintaining an affair, and you attend marriage counseling with someone who is pro-marriage and well-trained in the issues surrounding infidelity.


---------------------

I almost typed up what Count said, a simple "no," because that is what would be 100% true in my own case. But what I see in your story is VAST quantities of rug-sweeping, MANY MANY issues that have never been dealt with head-on via counseling. 

Serial cheaters are very recalcitrant so you have to know that going in. If he wasn't willing to put so many things on the table that were off before, I'd say kick him to the curb. BUT HOLD HIM TO HIS LIST. Write it down now on a poster and put it up in his apartment so he can look at it daily.

Cheating is an escapist outlet that he turns to when times are tough. Life = tough--do you expect you'll never have any more tough times? That seems like a slim reed on which to stand.


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## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

No. Just..........................No.

You may have married for life, but I assume that when you made that choice, it was because you thought the marriage would be monogamous.

You should give yourself permission to revisit your commitment to the lifetime marriage, whatever you decide.

There is no way I could deal with your situation and stay married.

Sorry that you find yourself in this situation.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

DO NOT GIVE HIM A 3RD CHANCE.

He will never change. My H is the same. Last week caught an EA wrapped up with nice big bow of lies. I am going to file for divorce. I believe he is a serial cheater and this is no way to live. 

If he never learned after the first time....he will never learn. Don't put yourself through anymore agony.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Thanks all ((( )))

Its like i have all of you in my head already 

All these points of view are what I'm wrestling with - trying to see the wood for the trees

Yes we never addressed our issues in the early days pre infidelity number one and never have done it right since. 

This would only be a second chance not a third IYSWIM - not that it makes that much difference . The first was marrying him in the first place.

I know I would have done it differently if this was pre-kids


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> I've reread my post and apologise for its length but given the speedy responses I must have made a certain amount of sense so will leave it if thats OK
> 
> To be clear he has said he will do whatever I want and the 'terms' were in response to me asking what he would offer to start with.
> 
> ...


Only you can answer that question. 

What are you willing to put up with. 

Will he change, maybe with some heavy duty individual counseling. 

IMO, the larger problem is that we live in a society that sanctions cheating and does not punish it properly. 

I have heard that a woman can do the entire football team in town and still get alimony and child support and custody.

I have read that a woman can fool the husband into raising another man's child by telling him it is his and if he does, he still must pay this cheating woman child support for a child that his not his. 

Many psychiatrists have labeled cheating as emotional abuse, so why aren't these people in jail locked up for emotionally abusing a spouse. 

Also, as in my case, my cheater husband spend a lot of money on the Ow, why isn't that considered theft by deception?

Why are marital assets split 50/50 even when a spouse cheats. IMO, a cheating spouse should get nothing, but their cloths. 

In many cases, the faithful spouse is the financially responsible one while the cheater is out spending the marital assets on sleaze bags.

All these things being overlooked by society make it too easy for the married men and woman to cheat on a spouse and to justify their cheating ways.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Wait. You said he had an affair "and some casual sex with other partners 5y ago" and now he's "admitted to another 2-3m relationship (supposedly ended) and 2 more casual encounters in last 12m" and you are wondering if you should give him a THIRD chance? 

Your math is off. There are, and apparently have been for quite some time, an unknown number of OW in your husband's life. This isn't a case of two singular EAs or PAs over the course of many years. This is a case of perhaps dozens of individual cases of infidelity. That's rather the definition of a serial cheater.

So, whether or not you should give him another chance (I refuse to say "third" here) comes down to whether or not you are content to be in an open marriage. It's clearly working for your husband. But what works for you?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

To answer the title: No.

I don't need to hear how awesome the cheater was in faking the apology.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

More thanks to all

I sound like a doormat and an enabler and I suppose I have been although it didn't feel like it at the time. The post separation reconciliation felt like a genuine new start with him working for a year to convince me first, a new house etc

To be let down again is a living hell 

I do wonder if he has a genuine personality disorder (other than plain selfish bar steward) because he is so reckless and ego-centric in some ways while at the same time running a business and generally functioning as a responsible being in others. Family man on one hand, serial cheater and liar on the other.

As it stands, I've thrown him out so hopefully I'm not a complete doormat but I know he's gonna work to get back and how do I withstand that this time


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

No. 

He made obviously didn't really have remorse the first time or he would not have done it again. He would have known the pan the first cheated caused you and would never do it again 

But he did In fact the second time wasn't just one person it has others too 

So no he has shown his true colors and any more time you give him in this life will be time you could be having with someone who actually loves you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Well he's been gone for 3 days

Gone but not gone though grrrr 

He sleeps there but turns up here and hangs around all day. Doesn't help we're on hols so all at home. Refuses my not so polite requests to leave. I can't physically chuck him, I can't get too verbal with the boys around. 

Am getting so worked up every day - I want space and peace to come to terms and decide what to do next

Back to work tomorrow - not really up for it as I'm knackered and hardly the sharpest knife in the drawer just now but it will be a blessing. So is he. My 77y old mum is making the trip to child mind - he wont dare show his face to her 

He's not bloody living in 2 camps to save face or torment me or whatever it is. I need a couple of big guns to tell him whats what, I really do


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Change the locks , give him a key only if ordered by a court of law. If he breaks in call the police and ask for him to be removed as he is living elsewhere. Divert his mail to his new address and please go to the child support agency , they will ensure all monies are deducted at source . Secure your monies into an account only you have access to, affairees are known to behave badly when the pressure is on them.

These steps are but a few that will make him realise your not rolling over. If he is sincere he will take these steps on the chin and continue to try make amends . If he fights you then you know he has no intention of taking the consequences and expects to roll over you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Your doing good , take one day at a time and create a plan you can follow. The best way forward is to have minimal contact with him and give yourself a chance to clear your mind.

There is no easy way forward what I suggest is take a route that is best for you and your children. Continuously having to look over your shoulder to see if your husband is cheating is bad for the neck muscles , give them a break and look forward in the direction you want to travel, he can follow or fall by the wayside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Oh, dear! You seem to have married a very selfish person. Or someone with such a damaged ego that serious work would be required to fix him.

If you didn't mind about the infidelity, then fair enough, let him keep having affairs.

But you do mind, don't you? 

Have yourself checked out for STDs and HIV. There's been a horrendous increase in STDs in the UK. And this seems to be amongst older people, not just kids.

Oh, yes. Welcome from another person in England. 

PS: Call a divorce solicitor Wednesday morning.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Mind ? I'm crucified 

I'm not in a rush to get to the solicitors - I want to calm things down completely first as we have children

He is obviously badly flawed but has always paid his way and I earn too so there is no urgent money issue for a month or two 

Not looking forward to the trip to the docs though. He's offered to get tested so I don't have to if he's clear but not sure that's enough.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I won't give my wife a 2nd chance and she knows it


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Mind ? I'm crucified
> 
> I'm not in a rush to get to the solicitors - I want to calm things down completely first as we have children
> 
> ...


Take him up on the offer, then get yourself tested, too. He might have infected you, then got antibiotics which cleared it up for him.

A first hour free consultation with a solicitor will let you know where you stand should you decide on taking that course of action in the future.

By the way, I love yellow roses! Just thought I'd mention that!


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

My favourite flower 

I know I need to make some appointments that I don't really want to make


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Going to see a solicitor was the best thing I did, even though I cried! Having someone totally impartial giving advice helps you get your head round it. Just get advice at this stage, don't need to formalise anything yet.

Please don't stay with him just for the kids!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> My favourite flower
> 
> I know I need to make some appointments that I don't really want to make


If you can, make an 'appointment' with David Austin. He doesn't do divorce counselling but his yellow roses are amongst the best in the country! (Great tearoom, too, if you can get there, otherwise they do mail order.):smthumbup:

PS You are not a doormat.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

Unless you want more heartbreak- HELL NO!!!


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

YellowRoses said:


> Not looking forward to the trip to the docs though. He's offered to get tested so I don't have to if he's clear but not sure that's enough.


Umm....if he wasn't considerate enough about your health to not screw around or use protection....why would you trust your health to him now that you know better?


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Well I read this thread with great sympathy yellRose.

I asked this question a while ago ( 4 years) and went with my heart and she just smashed it and our kids lives to pieces by carrying on (here's my recent thread although the infidelities go back a few years but in the last 6 months have gone completely out of control)

- http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/46264-headspinning.html 

I was at the crossroads like you after the second one and I deeply regret my decision to give it another go and Ive wasted another 4 years because of it.

However saying that I am a great believer in love and if you can get your head into the right place for it and have a real confidence about it then go for it. 

I would not know the stats for it but how many people giving it a go and succeeding after multiple infidelities must be, I assume, low but that does not mean yours wont be the one that gets through it.

One thing that always pulled me back in to her was that outside of these crazy episodes our marriage was very very good and she admits that and in a weird way I wish it had been poorer all the time so that we'd have ended it it much sooner, but there's no accounting for the power of love

I 'chased' that love we had that was always so good in between her bouts of madness but in the end it was not enough and this most recent for me has left me with an anger I have never experienced before 

I wish you all the best and hope you make the right choices


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Should have left after the 1st time.

Definitely should have left after the 2nd time.

There should never have been a 3rd time.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> Should have left after the 1st time.
> 
> Definitely should have left after the 2nd time.
> 
> There should never have been a 3rd time.


I'm only up to the 2nd time at the moment but I hear you


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

To quote "Screw me over once, shame on you.Screw me over twice , shame on me."


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

He has said, yet again, he wants to come back

Some days ago I said (well not really said but raged about for quite a while) if he wanted me to even think about not ending the marriage, I wanted the full truth and full access to his phone/contacts. I need the full truth however painful, he is doing that trickle thing. Caught another lie 2 days ago about timings. And I want access to these women - not sure what I will do with the info yet but if he can't make himself vulnerable to me by giving up his secrets, I can't see us get off the starting block. Its about levelling the playing field for starters

He is doing that thing about not understanding why I want the info, that I am not thinking straight, that I will cause more damage that he is protecting me and the family. Yeah, right.

But really just protecting himself , quite a coward actually

Apparently if we were actually reconciling, I could have anything I want - what planet is he on , trying to set conditions

I exposed him to his mother last night ie reasons for the split as she was there trying to tell us both to be 'nice' because it was affecting the children. I know damn well its affecting the children, thats why I've shipped him out. We'll see how that goes

I'm working long days for the rest of the week. The boys are on hols and I've arranged trips and sleepovers for them. Hopefully we'll get a calmer few days

Then next week I think I have to tackle docs and solicitors on my days off

He is making it easier to push on not harder in a tiny way by being so stupidly territorial and totally not humble but still arrogant.

He reminds me of a child caught out but bluffing like hell


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> He reminds me of a child caught out but bluffing like hell


I've had two woman pull this crap on me and one of the most fascinating things, if it can be, has been exactly this

- the inner anger and irritation THEY feel about you snooping on *them* and running around like Inspector Clouseau going out of your mind trying to figure out the whole sordid history of it all!!

They sit there all hurt and annoyed because YOU have the audacity to go so deep into there lives in order to fully open out *their* infidelity 

I found *not once* did either of them sit down and say "okay, okay you know I've been doing this and that and now I'm going to disclose the whole minute by minute business so that YOUR mind is at rest and I can also try to come to terms with the terrible things I have been doing" No, even when faced with overwhelming evidence they'll STILL make you have to pull out every little bit more to find out the full extent of it all 

I have never cheated and I feel I could do that if I did 

At least try to put the person who I have destroyed out of any further misery but maybe that's my basic fundamental honesty coming to the surface when really these people simply do not possess that and sadly it's only at these terrible times when we, the other party, realize that we have been living with dishonest people all the time


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

> He is doing that thing about not understanding why I want the info, that I am not thinking straight, that I will cause more damage that he is protecting me and the family. Yeah, right.


Gaslighting at its best
Don't buy into his words(the snake!!).

You now have control in this relationship and i suggest you get out and get out now, for your peace of mind and for your kids. I don't see him improving anytime soon if he keeps this up.


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## l4u (Jun 6, 2012)

I gave my wife a second chance after she cheated on me twice.
It was the worst mistake of my life!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Caught another lie 2 days ago about timings. And I want access to these women - not sure what I will do with the info yet but if he can't make himself vulnerable to me by giving up his secrets, I can't see us get off the starting block. Its about levelling the playing field for starters


If he's not even going to try to be honest, then why bother.

Remorse is about actions, not words.

I gave my spouse two chances, but the difference was it was with the same person and they had never truly ended it when he said that they had (I never verified).

He would have to be completely transparent--all passwords, computers, accounts, phone records, credit card bills, etc. open to you.

But I'm still concerned that you two don't have the time that it takes to heal a marriage. With your jobs and other obligations, do you have 15 to 20 hours a week for the forseeable future to do the hard work it's going to take?


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

We would have the time if we wanted to - I have days off , he has long hours but flexible


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## TorontoBoyWest (May 1, 2012)

The more I think about it. The older I get and the more mature (LOL ) I get. The more I realize that I for sure would not even give a second chance.

There are plenty of fish in the sea. My self respect and dignity are far more important then the years I spent with X.

Or the Love or whatever I shared with X. And in speaking on children, I firmly believe that two loving houses are far better then one miserable one. So that doesn't fly with me anymore. I would never "stay for the kids".

I respect and understand those who wish to R. Those who wish to forgive.

For me?

Curbside. Pronto. Too bad so sad.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Heck it hurts this morning

Awake since 4.30, heart jumping out of my chest

I have 2 overnight bags and a rugby training kit to get together for the boys - I have been wandering round for half an hour - none are done

Have an upset tum and just feel like curling up but have to get ready and go work for a living

Not sure how to keep going right now


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## forlorn99 (May 20, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Hello all, I'm English , have been reading for weeks and plucking up courage to post
> 
> I'm 15 years married with 2 sons , 12 and 10 . Im 46, he's 43. Both work (and hard)
> 
> ...


To be completely honest I do not know that you can get past even one time. I am trying very hard to get past what happened to me and its nearly impossible to forgive something so hurtful. The worst part to me is that it is done intentionally, they may say that it wasn't or that they got carried away or whatever excuse they want to use for their behavior. The truth is they knew what they were doing knew that it could mean the end of your marriage and chose to do it anyway. I am not sure how anyone myself included could ever feel the same way about their spouse again especially if they are not completely in to repair the damage that they did. Your spouse has proven that they are not all in by cheating again. I would divorce and never look back.. don't even talk to them anymore the only thing that will happen is more emotional loss and pain.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

forlorn99 said:


> To be completely honest I do not know that you can get past even one time. I am trying very hard to get past what happened to me and its nearly impossible to forgive something so hurtful. The worst part to me is that it is done intentionally, they may say that it wasn't or that they got carried away or whatever excuse they want to use for their behavior. The truth is they knew what they were doing knew that it could mean the end of your marriage and chose to do it anyway.



I agree totally. This is the bit I struggle with. "I couldn't stop myself". 

Right - 15 yrs of "mostly fantastic marriage" " you still are the love of my life" " I know I have everything a woman could want and should be happy" (all her words) 

BUT she actually, when their first conversation turned personal and when when their lips had yet to touch had this _*choice*_ knowing full well (after at least three other EA/PAs) that so many lives would get obliterated. What I can't get and people who are not in our position cannot get is that it's hard to admit to oneself you have been deceived by somebody not only you have loved supported given your soul to but that they are actually a bit evil and it's so upsetting to think you have not seen that over all the time you have been with them and that leaves you feeling so stupid and angry.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Rational brain = he's damaged beyond repair and so is the marriage
> 
> Emotional brain = still a glimmer of hope for happy ever after for all 4 of us
> 
> ...


I struggle with the same questions as you do. I think that when you consider to try again, you should look for signs of dependency and ask your self WHY am I accepting this?

I have started that process myself, and ugly answers emerge, grounded in childhood.

Just a thought for you. Good luck to you.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I ached for my life back last night alone in an empty house

I cried and it was messy - I answered texts from friends but couldn't speak to anyone. One kind word and I blub without stopping

Dreading this first weekend juggling the kids - we haven't made proper plans. I know he'll be all over us like a rash. Wanting to show them he's still a good dad. I'd really like him to disappear for a while


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> I ached for my life back last night alone in an empty house
> 
> I cried and it was messy - I answered texts from friends but couldn't speak to anyone. One kind word and I blub without stopping
> 
> Dreading this first weekend juggling the kids - we haven't made proper plans. I know he'll be all over us like a rash. Wanting to show them he's still a good dad. I'd really like him to disappear for a while


I feel this with you. You NEED to focus on yourself right now. Work out, walk or run like crazy and let your thoughts and feelings come out.

If you would like him to disappear for a while, seperate his two roles as father and husbond, and tell him to leave you alone untill further notice. You may go "as far" as to implement 180.

Is it easy? No, I walk in a pair of shoes that look a lot like yours, and I know it isn't easy. So take care and regain strength.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Heck it hurts this morning
> 
> Awake since 4.30, heart jumping out of my chest
> 
> ...


Gosh. Sorry. But I misread that at first. I thought you would be wearing a rugby shirt! That's given me a very interesting image! 

Sorry. But you reminded me of my wife in her rugby shirt. This post almost certainly hasn't helped you, but it has helped me! Now... what was I saying? 

By the way, you need to insist on a break from your husband. 

He caused it all. He can't see his children for a few weeks? Tough! He caused the situation and should learn that there are consequences for bad behaviour!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I do not know what the UK laws are---but since your H, has slept with every female that exists---(multiple women)---you can certainly show he is morally corrupt---so you wanna put a stop to his arrogance---get an injunction agst him, being around you and the kids---also make him get tested for STD.

You have told him to get lost---he refuses---so when he comes over---you take the boys and immediately leave, you DO NOT HAVE TO BE AROUND HIM. His ego has been bruised, well keep on bruising it, as hard as you can!!!!!

He is cheating, and you basically do nothing about it---sure you threw him out---he promised to be a good boy, and you took him back and he cheated again----how much misery would you like.

You just need to start Dissolution proceedings, and end all this doubt

If you really were willing to put yourself thru all this again---Make him sign a POST--NUP, with a DURESS clause----make it completely favorable to you--such as an 85/15 split, on all finances, and property, you get alimony the rest of your life, and you will be the custodial parent---if he wants back, he signs it---if he is serious, that document by itself might keep him in line---but the real question here, is what is gonna keep your sub-conscious in line---short of ending it with this total loser of a H.

I hope you are keeping track of the finances, you say he is spending an inordinant amount on a flat---well you know half of all of that money is yours---so you should be making an accounting of everything that comes in, in the way of finances.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

cpacan, matttmatt, jnj

I agree I can walk when he turns up and avoid the contact but the boys are old enough to understand and want to be with both of us. Not sure I could force them in a car and drive away when they actually want to see him. They are so distressed at the moment and both has exams next week (another thing to feel guilty about)n 

I really don't want to start an all out war. Not that he doesn't deserve every bit of it but my boys don't. 

I have the money situation under control as best as I can. I have always controlled the cash - all our savings are in my name. No reason (til now). He has his own business and has paid me his normal salary for 2m upfront but he will be taking out extra for his new expenses. I can't really control that.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

oh yellow I feel for you - when the ex finally moved out the house felt so empty. And then I started to enjoy it - being able to do what I wanted and cook what I wanted and not have his negativity bringing everything down

your H is being a total d*ck and he'll continue to be so whilst you're being nice about it. I don't mean turn into the b*tch from hell but start to detach from him. He hasn't respected you so you should afford him the same courtesy

D is doing her GCSEs at the moment and the ex actually had the front to say he couldn't understand why it was stressful for her. I refrained from b*tchslapping him at that point but it brought home to me how differently the WS sees things, constant self-justification and attempts to deny how their behaviour is affecting everyone

Come down to London and see me, I'll take you drinking and we can go and chat up some w*nker bankers in the City


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> oh yellow I feel for you - when the ex finally moved out the house felt so empty. And then I started to enjoy it - being able to do what I wanted and cook what I wanted and not have his negativity bringing everything down
> 
> your H is being a total d*ck and he'll continue to be so whilst you're being nice about it. I don't mean turn into the b*tch from hell but start to detach from him. He hasn't respected you so you should afford him the same courtesy
> 
> ...


You should identify yourselves by both carrying a rose catalogue, opened to a photograph of a yellow rose! 

It amuses my wife that I am so into yellow roses. She bought me one for my birthday, last year!:smthumbup:


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

yes, I want to be lugging a rose catalogue round with me when out and about in London town
they have things called mobile phones now you know ha ha


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Ahh, thanks Dolly ( start airing the spare bed LOL). 

I'm not being that nice - I took a whole load of his stuff and dumped it all over his car parked at a friends house last Friday to get my 'get out' message across and bring his bar steward behaviour into the open

I have told him to stay away and text to make arrangements and he's more or less doing that now .... and he hates it

But you are absolutely right really dolly. He is all about himself first and foremost. 'Just because I've been a prick to you doesn't mean I've done anything to the boys blah blah blah '


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Ahh, thanks Dolly ( start airing the spare bed LOL).
> 
> I'm not being that nice - I took a whole load of his stuff and dumped it all over his car parked at a friends house last Friday to get my 'get out' message across and bring his bar steward behaviour into the open
> 
> ...


Was it raining on his stuff? *please* tell me it was raining on it!:lol:


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> But you are absolutely right really dolly. He is all about himself first and foremost. 'Just because I've been a prick to you doesn't mean I've done anything to the boys blah blah blah '


they always are!! when I was stressing about whether or not I could buy him out of the mortgage he said 'well I don't see what the big deal is if you have to sell it, it's just a house'

yeah, a house that's been in my family since the 1940s, a house that D has grown up in, a house that we could only afford in the first place because of my income, my F*CKING HOME you massive tool


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Was it raining on his stuff? *please* tell me it was raining on it!:lol:


let me see, what are the chances of it raining in England in the middle of June? hmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> let me see, what are the chances of it raining in England in the middle of June? hmmmmmmmmmmmm


The other folk on this site really would not get this, would they, Dolly? Not unless they have seen our weather at its best!

Today, my wife and I were going to take a nice, long walk, then go to a restaurant for lunch. We decided to stay in, instead!) :rofl:

Been a really good week for a holiday! Not!:rofl:


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> oh yellow I feel for you - when the ex finally moved out the house felt so empty. And then I started to enjoy it - being able to do what I wanted and cook what I wanted and not have his negativity bringing everything down


I'm not quite there yet - the empty house especially when I have not got the kids is not a pleasant place to be



Dollystanford said:


> Come down to London and see me, I'll take you drinking and we can go and chat up some w*nker bankers in the City :


  I hope you'll both tell us all about it !


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Was it raining on his stuff? *please* tell me it was raining on it!:lol:


Sadly it was that rarest of balmy evenings 

But it still meant his much older and richer business mentor friends picking up his smalls and assorted tat off their driveway and letting him know


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Sadly it was that rarest of balmy evenings
> 
> But it still meant his much older and richer business mentor friends picking up his smalls and assorted tat off their driveway and letting him know


excellent 

typical England though, when you want it to rain it doesn't


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Rowan said:


> Wait. You said he had an affair "and some casual sex with other partners 5y ago" and now he's "admitted to another 2-3m relationship (supposedly ended) and 2 more casual encounters in last 12m" and you are wondering if you should give him a THIRD chance?
> 
> Your math is off. There are, and apparently have been for quite some time, an unknown number of OW in your husband's life. This isn't a case of two singular EAs or PAs over the course of many years. This is a case of perhaps dozens of individual cases of infidelity. That's rather the definition of a serial cheater.
> 
> So, whether or not you should give him another chance (I refuse to say "third" here) comes down to whether or not you are content to be in an open marriage. It's clearly working for your husband. But what works for you?


I agree Rowan and rose it sounds like yr H could have a sex addiction to say the least
By always sweeping things under the rug you have taught him that he can pretty much do anything and not 
Have any consequence it sounds like yall have an open marriage except you didn't realize it 
I like yr rational mind the best sex addiction can be conquered it takes a lot of effort by the addict
Good Luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I know nothing about sex addiction but am guessing there is a strong 'frequency' element

I know that his opportunities weren't actually all that frequent even during the times when things were allowed to become obvious to me. 

I suspect its an addiction to something though or a personality trait where he runs from trouble or monotony to a bottle and then on to someone to re- boost the fragile ego.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

I would'nt even worry about any ailments or addictions he may or may not have , your giving him far to much air time in your brain. Keep occupied with something else. Two months will pass quickly so the financial situation should be high on you list .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Why do I feel like its all on me for ending the marriage ?

He wants to come back 
The boys want him back

I feel like I'm sacrificing all of them because of what I can't live with

I know its rubbish and its not my job to be a martyr but its still killing me


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Why do I feel like its all on me for ending the marriage ?
> 
> He wants to come back
> The boys want him back
> ...


Aaaah the old guilt trip - 'but I want to come home'
Yes of course he does, so he can have his nice comfy married life and pursue other women whilst giving the impression he's a good family man

Wanker!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Why do I feel like its all on me for ending the marriage ?
> 
> He wants to come back
> The boys want him back
> ...


I think you have changed your perspective since coming here, you have done so well! Now keep up the work, work on your self, don't sacrifice your life on behalf of his.

Hang in there, you can do it. Turn your anger into determination.


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## lovewanted (Jun 11, 2012)

tell me about it. i am dealing with a cheating husband since the beginning of my marriage i.e. 6 years. i am chained in this relationship just because of kids. i am dead sure about this fact that he still cheats on me besides all the confrontation n catching him red handed n then forgiving him everytime ofcourse unwillingly. life is a hell.. i have so many obligations n problems because of which i havent broken up with him but from inside its eaten me ,my self respect, my confidence, my inner peace n contentment all screwed up just because of him. i dont love him even if he does good to me or be good. i dont know why i am staying with him yet. but its just torturing as hell .every faithful wife can feel this pain .pls move out of ur marriage if possible. dont let him play with u anymore. i wanna hang every cheating spouse in the middle of the road n punish him to death i wish i could but ALAS i am helpless, dependent,weak n ALONE


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## lovewanted (Jun 11, 2012)

lovewanted said:


> tell me about it. i am dealing with a cheating husband since the beginning of my marriage i.e. 6 years. i am chained in this relationship just because of kids. i am dead sure about this fact that he still cheats on me besides all the confrontation n catching him red handed n then forgiving him everytime ofcourse unwillingly. life is a hell.. i have so many obligations n problems because of which i havent broken up with him but from inside its eaten me ,my self respect, my confidence, my inner peace n contentment all screwed up just because of him. i dont love him even if he does good to me or be good. i dont know why i am staying with him yet. but its just torturing as hell .every faithful wife can feel this pain .pls move out of ur marriage if possible. dont let him play with u anymore. i wanna hang every cheating spouse in the middle of the road n punish him to death i wish i could but ALAS i am helpless, dependent,weak n ALONE


i also want to b pampered n spoilt by my partner whos just mine n who just loves me but now i am scared of ALL the men. always remember, ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER. my husband proved it 100% correct. 
dont waste ur time n dont ruin ur kids lives. move out n stay happy x

goodluck


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

lovewanted said:


> i also want to b pampered n spoilt by my partner whos just mine n who just loves me but now i am scared of ALL the men. always remember, ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER. my husband proved it 100% correct.
> dont waste ur time n dont ruin ur kids lives. move out n stay happy x
> 
> goodluck


Lovewanted, you should post your own thread and get some support for yourself. It may be good for you


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## WorkOnIt (Jun 6, 2012)

Never a third chance.
Too many options to deal with that crap.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

YellowRoses, I had a tough night last night with the same type of issues. We were watching some dumb movie and one of the girls mentioned how cute a grandfather was with his grandson, and all I could think about was how that would never be our family. We will never have the traditional holidays together where so many memories are created. And I started thinking to myself that I was ruining this for my children by asking for the D. Then I shuddered and came back to the real world. My STBXH hasn't worked in three years, did nothing at home, avoided his family, verbally abused us, and left for the OW and his cybersex. That was never the kind of family life I ever wanted. Hopefully now we can build a better life. And so will you!


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

One of the problems for me is that the rest of our life is good

He's a cheating tosspot but he also works hard, provides well, does loads with the boys, keeps a good social life for us and is a good son/brother. Not much round the house but he runs errands and does chauffeur duty. He'll drive me anywhere/anytime if I want to go out. Also let me get a temporary cleaner a couple of months ago when things got too much for me.

He's just a crap husband sadly


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## lovewanted (Jun 11, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> One of the problems for me is that the rest of our life is good
> 
> He's a cheating tosspot but he also works hard, provides well, does loads with the boys, keeps a good social life for us and is a good son/brother. Not much round the house but he runs errands and does chauffeur duty. He'll drive me anywhere/anytime if I want to go out. Also let me get a temporary cleaner a couple of months ago when things got too much for me.
> 
> He's just a crap husband sadly


OMG hes sameeee like mmy husband... i swear i even hate his goodness n helping me around. its hell difficult to live with an unwanted person who makes u feel unloved every moment


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Hell, I could use a pair of arms tonight. 

This is very very very hard

Keep me sane guys


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

You have just started to process this mess, so don't be hard on yourself.
Let the emotions flow, keep strict focus on your own and your kids wellbeing, and you will eventually be okay.
Keep moving, one foot at a time. It will take a lot of time.
Best wishes.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

I'm so sorry, YellowRoses. It must be so hard to let go of 15 years.

I know a lot of people who have gone through a difficult break-up after a long M and this book was recommended to me.

"The Journey From Abandonment to Healing"

I read it when my H first asked for a D and it helped immensely. It gave me hope that what I was going through was normal and that some day, I would be okay and happy again.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Sounds as if he uses his job to socialize and get close to the opposite sex and casually have sex with them. He is very loose with it and he does it over and over like he gets bored and move on to the next. THe more women he lays down with, the more he increases the chances of bringing home some std to your bed. 

Sorry for the moment or until you get back in with me just wont get it with this type of cheater. People like this should just be bachelors and live the single life because it makes no sense to get married and live the single life outside your home as if you are a bachelor. It is wild


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I have said just that to him

'You weren't meant to be married. You've always been single in your head'


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

yellowroses......I know it helps to analyze him and such, but honestly, what about what YOU were meant to be? If he is a good father with the kids, then he will continue to be. You are not ruining their life if you can't put up with his lies and betrayal.

Please don't do that to yourself. You have to believe that you did all you could for your marriage and you honored and forgave him countless times. Don't ever regret that you believed in someone or took your vows seriously. That is a good thing. I know how you feel but to think you are taking this idyllic life away from your children is just wrong.

But we blame ourselves, don't we?

What you are teaching them in the end is that you are a woman of virtue---and a life of happiness and healing is what you choose. Be easier with yourself. 

Please take care.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> I have said just that to him
> 
> 'You weren't meant to be married. You've always been single in your head'


But I do agree with this. Like Tiger Woods and Dennis Rodman. Everyone knows Dennis is crazy, he isn't trying to pass himself off as some clean-cut family man. What you see is what you get. Hey be a wild bachelor all you want! Just don't get married. 

Tiger, on the other hand, was gaming everyone, and his wife and kids paid the price in humiliation.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> One of the problems for me is that the rest of our life is good
> 
> He's a cheating tosspot but he also works hard, provides well, does loads with the boys, keeps a good social life for us and is a good son/brother. Not much round the house but he runs errands and does chauffeur duty. He'll drive me anywhere/anytime if I want to go out. Also let me get a temporary cleaner a couple of months ago when things got too much for me.
> 
> He's just a crap husband sadly


Just can't resist whipping his todger out at the sight of another woman, eh?

What an idiot he is! Actually, I hear the real idiots are going to sue people who call your husband an idiot for libelling them!


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## MrArachnid (May 3, 2012)

I am still dealing with the fallout of my wife cheating with someone who had been a friend for 20 years......I have already made my opinion known that, while I am willing to work on this now, if it ever happened again.....that was it....no second chance.....and CERTAINLY NOT A THIRD.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

That is why he is out on his ear - he's done it again

Now I've had some space its all getting a bit clearer. Because he got essentially a 'free pass' when he came back the first time, his mindset hadn't changed. As soon as the going got tough (and it was from Day 1 with work and illness) he was back to old habits. He hasn't bonded with anyone - he has been after 'quick fixes'. I didn't out him, he outed himself. He is claiming that he wants to break the cycle and finally sees things differently as in how very wrong it is to shag someone else when your wife doesn't want you to ! Says that if I gave him another chance it would really only be a first one because he hadn't actually changed the real first time. No ****, Sherlock !! I am a being a bit scathing because its all a bit too much too late

But what IS clear is that turfing him out, cutting all non-essential contact, absolutely refusing to listen when he tries to draw me into the blame game is making him actually look at himself now and he doesn't like what he sees.

Who knows ? Even if I can't take him back, I'd like to go back to not actually hating his guts.

Don't get me wrong, I am as much to blame as him for what has been wrong with our marriage in the long term. Both of us blocked them out and didn't deal with things that should have been dealt with years ago. Kind of like settling for 8/10 until the other 2/10 became elephants in the room. But the cheating is 100% his. I think he finally knows that - his body language says it as much as anything. He is practically squirming in front of me about it now instead of aggressively trying to say its no big deal and our underlying problems are the real issue

Sorry, long ramble ....


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> That is why he is out on his ear - he's done it again
> 
> Now I've had some space its all getting a bit clearer. Because he got essentially a 'free pass' when he came back the first time, his mindset hadn't changed. As soon as the going got tough (and it was from Day 1 with work and illness) he was back to old habits. He hasn't bonded with anyone - he has been after 'quick fixes'. I didn't out him, he outed himself. He is claiming that he wants to break the cycle and finally sees things differently as in how very wrong it is to shag someone else when your wife doesn't want you to ! Says that if I gave him another chance it would really only be a first one because he hadn't actually changed the real first time. No ****, Sherlock !! I am a being a bit scathing because its all a bit too much too late
> 
> ...


Extraordinarily like my wife only she's still in the "you made me do it " mode!

And like you my forgiveness just seemed to give her a green light to keep going even though she admits our marriage was good!

_*I'd like to go back to not actually hating his guts.*_
....and this is the biggest thing I have right now - I can't get my anger and rage out of my body. I think some of it is directed at myself as well for being so trusting so much in love with somebody that I'd forgive them anything and who is somebody who simply does'nt deserve that kind of love

I know that now of course, but......

Jesus wept


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

An update

He's in his flat and it feels like he's waiting for me to calm down. He still doesn't have it set up for the boys to stay, as if he really thinks its very short term. 

I was doing OK for 3 weeks but have gone downhill since. I went to the docs because of the really bad mood swings and lack of sleep. She started me on anti-d. Said I have depression and trauma prob going back 5y to first wave infidelity which have only been added to. Said I need to lift the depression a bit to get a better grip on things. Even said to postpone any counselling for a few weeks as I'm too emotional to get much out of it just now. Just try and survive, sleep and be kind to myself for a couple of weeks

Starting the meds seemed to have triggered anger like never before but it might just be a coincidence and the flip side of what took me to the Doc. I can rant at him for hours and swear like a navvy and its really hard to rein it in. Its scary losing control like that, wanting to actually smack him one. I have a constant urge to communicate just now, not to ask anything from him just to keep spelling out what he has done and the effect its having

Hoping I'll settle down when the meds start to do their busy work

So its a kind of limbo, me a wreck, him doing nothing much and no big decisions on anything. But talking to the Doc made me realise that that is actually OK, I don't actually need to do anything in a rush. I can get a bit better first


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Hope everything is better


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Hello all, I'm English , have been reading for weeks and plucking up courage to post
> 
> I'm 15 years married with 2 sons , 12 and 10 . Im 46, he's 43. Both work (and hard)
> 
> ...


I read your whole story but it didn't really change my answer from the title to the thread. No. You're still taking blame for the A. Which is not true at all. Your at fault for your share of the problems in the marriage. He is too but he choose to screw several other people. That's all on him and you need to accept that as fact. You were going through the same junk as him but you didn't open your legs and bang all your problems away.

Some men turn to drink, he turned to OW. I am sorry this man has no intention of discontinuing this pattern of behavior. This flat is an easy way to trap you. Don't you dare move into that flat. You stay where you are and let him figure it out on his own. 

The only way i could see you two having a future is to divorce and let him see what the consequences to his decision making are. Likely some of these women are his client's wives. 

You need to read No more mr nice guy. Then follow it up with the 180. STick your guns don't back down. If you decide to try for R write out a list of stipulations he has to fulfill in order for you to even consider R.

You have sent the message if you cheat I will be mad but will move past it. That's why you had a dday 2. 
The message you need to send is an A of any type, no matter the magnitude, will not be tolerated. 
Get a lawyer and have him served D papers. (even if you don't plan on going through D papers are a giant wake up call.)

From this point forward you are at war. DO THE 180 FOR YOUR OWN SAKE.


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## faithfulspouse (Jul 28, 2012)

I would say no. Not only for you but because your children are seeing their father move in and out because he can't keep his bits in his pants, what a horrible example to set. Your children need to see you respecting yourself and knowing you are worth better than this and pray they don't follow his example. Maybe some counselling for them would help. 

Good luck


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Divorce your husband for his sake. With no consequences for his actions, he will see no need to fix himself.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm in the same predicament you are. I also am not sure what to do. My H and I are still together however, as he has made an utter promise to be everything he has never been. 

Looking at your situation from the outside, my rational brain says, he will never change, and get the D over with. It's all up to you and what you are willing to risk. Stay with the possibility of another D-Day. Or D and move on the best you can with what you have, and concentrate on you and your children.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

No big update yet

We've been separated for 2.5 months

Nothing is sorted

I HATE being a single parent and the effect of this on our kids and our future and I HATE the thought of being with him again

I need to reconcile these things somehow - thats why I'm not rushing anything

Just about got to grips with sleeping and functioning with Docs help - nowhere near ready to move anything along

something else- don't make the same mistake I did, demand proof and evidence that things have changed and don't settle for anything less.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

I've got nothing to add, except to say I hear you, and really feel your pain. I'm in pretty much the same place, so I can relate. 

Ultimately, we all need to make our own decision for what's best for us and our children. And whatever we choose, we'll be okay. Good luck.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I don't think I've hit the bottom yet

We've started to talk - as I thought what is coming out is disgusting. Some would say I know enough, just move on. But I can't. I feel I need to know as much as possible of the truth so I can rewrite my history into what it really was and break the ludicrously strong ties I have to him, stop wishing for a happy ever after. 

At the moment, a sneaky bit of my brain keeps making me think its not that bad, he never cared for them, it was just sex and thrills to get away from pressure of life and I hate that bit because its my weak spot. I'm the original 'good' girl, not much experience before marriage, loyal to a fault and when I got married , that was it. So hard to accept it he broke it beyond repair but I'm working on that.

I flip and flop all over the place. I cope better when I'm angry - everything is very clear then. But when I'm just down and sad and hurting, I don't do so well.

Not sure the anti-depressants are helping me apart from the sleep. Will see what the doctor says next week. Maybe I'm so down because my life is so **** and I've had so much **** done to me. Maybe I never was depressed in a medical sense just justifiably miserable !!

My youngest son is struggling with it and this doesn't help my guilt. My eldest is better. I KNOW I'm not guilty but I still FEEL guilty and such a failure to them. Its hard to make your brain take over your emotions.

God this is crap, I wish I could sleep forever sometimes and never have to deal with it


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, YR - I think you need a friendly pad on the back and a minor kick in the ...

I have been were you are. Still are from time to time, so I have a thing for you that helps me tremendously. I think you need some qualified couselling for your self. Invest in this for you, it will be worth it.

I tried one, then switched to another. He's a hardball'er and I can feel in every part of my body that I grow stronger every time I see him. I am slowly growing strong enough to state and enforce boundaries. I am learning what to own and what not to take responsibility for. This is the first time in my entire adulthood I have realized just how immature we have been, myself included.

I am growing strong, and it seems my wife is getting a bit worried about the process and the outcome of all this.

If you haven't already, you should definitely try 3-5 sessions to begin with. I believe it would do you good.

Take care of you, you are basically the only one you can trust to do it - and cheer up


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> At the moment, a sneaky bit of my brain keeps making me think its not that bad, he never cared for them, it was just sex and thrills to get away from pressure of life and I hate that bit because its my weak spot. I'm the original 'good' girl, not much experience before marriage, loyal to a fault and when I got married , that was it. So hard to accept it he broke it beyond repair but I'm working on that.
> 
> I flip and flop all over the place. I cope better when I'm angry - everything is very clear then. But when I'm just down and sad and hurting, I don't do so well.


So sorry to hear you are in so much turmoil. It's normal IMO. You have had such a shock. 

Your statement however about being loyal to a fault hit me. 

It seems that so many loyal, naive, trusting spouses are cheated on. 

It is makes me wonder why the counselors are so eager to blame the betrayed spouse for anything in the marriage. 

Whatever normal ups and downs the marriage had, cheating is never the answer. 

I think cheaters target trusting loyal mates. 

The other man in my STBEH's affair was also a trusting loyal dupe. He treated his wife like a queen and she threw it away. 

It so sad to see and IMO, it suggests that cheaters choose loyal trusting spouses because they are easier to fool. 

I read a university study a few months back that stated that spouses who are suspicious and untrusting are cheated on less. 

Oh well.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Thanks Sara

I haven't had counselling yet but I suspect it happens because its much easier to persuade a BS to take the blame because thats what we've been doing all along. We take the blame for the problems in the marriage and the WS does not. We worked at those problems and would have done more, WS took another route. They need the BS to accept the blame for the marriage problem because if it was their fault as well , then their justification for cheating goes right out the window.

Counsellor follows the path of least resistance.

Just a guess but its how it works in most other parts of life.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Giving him one chance must've been hard enough, but a second and third? No way. I hope you find your way...


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> Thanks Sara
> 
> I haven't had counselling yet but I suspect it happens because its much easier to persuade a BS to take the blame because thats what we've been doing all along. We take the blame for the problems in the marriage and the WS does not. We worked at those problems and would have done more, WS took another route. They need the BS to accept the blame for the marriage problem because if it was their fault as well , then their justification for cheating goes right out the window.
> 
> ...


All excellent points. Particularly the part about counselors following the path of least resistance. 

You are right, it's so much easier to put the onus on the BS to do all the work, so that the MC can feel that their counsel will save the marriage. As you said, the BS is already likely doing all the work in the marriage. 

Shirley Glass in not just friends mentions this by stating that many times the cheater will say he/she is not getting enough in the marriage, when in reality they are not giving enough in the marriage.

IMO, the wrong type of MC can do a lot of damage to already wounded betrayed spouse.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

I haven't had any counselling mainly because my doctor is sceptical of the benefits for me right now. She thinks I'm feeling exactly how I should feel and understand full well what's happened to me. That the new lot of betrayals actually trumps any underlying marital problems.

She thinks I'd be better off getting stronger FIRST and then going , more as someone uninvolved to talk to than as a crutch during the early crisis time

She has said if I spiral down or feel I'm out of control in any way, she'll refer me to someone straight away but I presume that means someone a few rungs up from a 'counsellor'

He WANTS to go to counselling though, strangely enough, he wants to have someone sit in as 'referee' while we talk through what he's done. I've said I'll go if he sets something up - needless to say I'm still waiting !


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> I don't think I've hit the bottom yet
> 
> We've started to talk - as I thought what is coming out is disgusting. Some would say I know enough, just move on. But I can't. I feel I need to know as much as possible of the truth so I can rewrite my history into what it really was and break the ludicrously strong ties I have to him, stop wishing for a happy ever after.
> 
> ...



Listen Yellow I'm there with you right now (6 wks further that's all). I think you and I are split down the middle the story is such a parallel.!

Look YellowR we are still here! - we are breathing and although maybe not functioning as we would like and normally would be - we still are. Our kids deserve for one of us in our marriages to be pulling through for them not hanging it all out to dry - and that is us, you and I.

You now know you are not to blame. You now know you have had a job done on you - an almighty one but we now know we can sleep at night. That's a lot more than they can. We are not trying to rewrite history in order to salvage some respectability are we ? No

I like you, have such anger still but I know deep down aside from all the outer confidant 'bluster' and blaming me for friends and new people my wife is deep down going through the mincer and there will be a time sooner or later when their shvt hits their fan and there will be a huge mess for them to deal with, particularly when they think about the future and the way the kids look back at it all 

YellowR none of us are perfect and we all, us included, can always find something we feel we could have done, handled better but we know when it comes to ripping a family asunder form pillar to post and other families likewise, where the blame lies.

We are better than them and I like to feel a lot more dignified about it all. My kids already sense this 

From your post "he never really cared for them" ? No he did'nt but then he never cared enough for you to not want to be with them either did he 

I also flip and flop sometimes and think I'm waking up to find better things to feel and say about my stbxw wife but I'm realizing as my own 'fog' - love recedes that the reality is that there is'nt much good to say or feel about her as the simple logic 'if you love somebody enough you do not cheat on them' and destroy untold lives in the process prevails more and more in my thinking.

One question that has always scared me throughout all this is 'if she came home tomorrow begging for forgiveness and wanting the life back with you she admits she loved before' (aside from the affairs) would you take it?

Two months ago I would have considered it, even a month ago.

Now that thought is unthinkable. The question no longer sends a tremor of fear.

My continued ability to forgive her cheating affairs was based on my chasing the best parts of our marriage but I now realize that so much of it was based on lies the 'best' parts are looking smaller and smaller than I previously thought 

Truth is - it is crap! but the crapness will alleviate - some days worse and even worse but generally it is getting a little crappier as time moves on 

You will feel that too but do not despair, you are doing alright, you are feeling the right things just that they weight heavily as they should.

Lets face it - short of murder/death and rape there are not many things that turn your life completely upside down, rip your heart to shreds, hurt your children and family like a serial cheater in a marriage.

You have a right to have bad days and be pissed off about it all

But you are and will pull through to better days ...............and with a much better man.


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Thank you so much for that Headspin

I've read it and then reread it - I know time is what I need, to keep him at arm's length for long enough to never want him back

I think the hardest thing of all is to accept that he never loved me properly. I really don't think he knows what love is. Too selfish, his wants and his feelings have driven every decision and tough sh*t to everyone else. He's a little bit guilty and a little bit sorry but only a bit, nowhere near enough to be credible.

If I didn't have children I'd have run the first time and never looked back. They and the feeling for the family unit are so strong aren't they ?

One thing I really struggle with is his uppityness about his 'rights' to still be a dad. He argues that what he has done was to me only and does not affect his being a dad. In my mind, what he does to me he indirectly does to the children. If I can't cope it affects them, if I'm sad it affects them. If he is having reckless flings he risks bringing trouble to their doorstep. Someone will always be waiting to tell all to them when they're older. I want to move them well away from this town and him - is that sensible or revenge ? I just don't know

It makes my head spin that he 'demands' to have them at the weekend when he spent so much time buggering off and leaving us every weekend when he lived here !

I'm rambling, I need to - I've found myself unexpectedly at home alone tonight. Its piddling down, I don't feel well, can't even have a glass of wine with these tablets. Just generally having a miserable one. 

I need to want a new life, at the moment I don't - I don't want to go back and I don't want to go forward. Its truly crap feeling like this day after day.

I also know I'll never trust anyone again - that makes me feel sick

I know that we'll never happily pack our sons off to Uni or to get married or travel the world together. They won't have rock solid mum and dad in the background for them. He's pinched all our security and all our future memories. 

He has no idea what he's missed , living his double life of quick thrills that in the end , meant nothing (he admits that)


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## Zak68 (Feb 14, 2012)

Your story reads like mine in many ways. Not sure how bad his drinking is but my wife was what I called a "closet alcoholic." She didn't need it during the day but drank herself silly 3-4 nights a week. This went on for 5-6 years. Then I found out about the affair with my BF that lasted for 6 mo. Reconciled (so I guess that was 2nd chance), she quit for a while, drank again, DUI, more drinking. Told her we were done, suicide attempt by her, she's been sober for going on 3 years now since then.
We separated for 6 mo while I tried to determine if she was worth another shot. The key thing for me was her sobriety and almost full honesty (still lies to heself about fault in the affair). I tried for years to change her drinking, thought I could cure her. You can't cure them, they will only change when they are ready to change. Until that time, any promises they make will be broken. 
I won't give her another shot. She drinks again, she is gone. I have changed and I won't put up with it. 
Your separation is the right thing for you. Your kids will appreciate it in time when they see a healthy life with you at the helm. It is hard and I can't talk here because I buckled in my mind. I let my need to give the kids a stable home overrule my personal needs for happiness. Were my wife not sober and looking like it would last I wouldn't have considered reconsiliation. Until your X can show he's changed, he's still the same.

Move on, be happy, grow, love life again. 
Begin to look at the good things you have in your life, and realize you can only control you, not anyone else.
Be honest with yourself and your kids, you both deserve it. 
Take care of yourself and do some things for you.
Don't rely on the meds to numb the pain, that's a slippery slope.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

YellowRoses said:


> I think the hardest thing of all is to accept that he never loved me properly. I really don't think he knows what love is. Too selfish, his wants and his feelings have driven every decision and tough sh*t to everyone else. He's a little bit guilty and a little bit sorry but only a bit, nowhere near enough to be credible.


Yep every single bit of that is the same exactly - what we are seeking is real remorse - unconditional - "Yes, okay I admit I have been a real bad ass selfish **** here and I deserve yours and everybody else's contempt". They don't know that it would actually help THEM move on but they can't give you that it's always with some little proviso "but if you had 'nt made me dah de dah de dah"... the point at which I stop talking and just glare with rage! Staggering



YellowRoses said:


> It makes my head spin that he 'demands' to have them at the weekend when he spent so much time buggering off and leaving us every weekend when he lived here !


Well yesterday my kids made me laugh "Daddy one good thing about this now is that when we are at Mummy's we now spend more time seeing her than we did when she was at home :smthumbup:



YellowRoses said:


> I'm rambling, I need to - I've found myself unexpectedly at home alone tonight. Its piddling down, I don't feel well, can't even have a glass of wine with these tablets. Just generally having a miserable one.


I'd still take that glass of wine tho! 



YellowRoses said:


> I need to want a new life, at the moment I don't - I don't want to go back and I don't want to go forward. Its truly crap feeling like this day after day.


That limbo is a real downer I know. I hate the days when I get up full of motivation and by lunchtime I've achieved very little other than figure out some more hitherto hidden aspect of our marriage of lies



YellowRoses said:


> I also know I'll never trust anyone again - that makes me feel sick


This happened to me before and I thought the same and I feel like it now too but I still underneath, after everything do have faith in deep real love and deep down I hope to still find that

Trust is such an indecipherable element and just creeps up when the foundations are shaking. Then you suddenly become aware that it's missing and from that point everything becomes so much more difficult.

Thing is is a new relationship, we, as emotional beings, simply have to put it out there or there is no real love is there?

Not easy though.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

> I'm the original 'good' girl, not much experience before marriage, loyal to a fault and when I got married , that was it.


Yep. And that is why he chose you. 

Serial cheaters, narcissists, personality disorders -- they can sniff nice people like you (and me) out. Codependents. Hard workers. A good girl (or boy) who will shoulder the blame, examine themselves, work harder, try to fix it! People like you are loyal, bonded, not quitters.

Perfect for the cake eater. 

He is manipulating you, sweetie. He is doing this "remorse" then cheat, then "remorse" cha cha DELIBERATELY. It's his preferred state, cake eating.

He is using your good, good qualities AGAINST you. You are in a war with yourself over your values. (Not a quitter! I want my nuclear family!) And he is counting on those values -- and using that to GAIN ADVANTAGE over you, so he can cheat.

Would I give a cheater a third chance? I can answer that. I've got a similar story. Yes. I did. After that kick in the teeth, I didn't give him a fourth. I finally quit. He was a serial cheater and he didn't stop cheating. He did operatic remorse, apologies, settlements, begging, promises to change. 

It's all very difficult to disengage from. I totally get it. 

I'm years out from it now, happily remarried. I blog about these sort of situations -- this might help you Five Things That Keep You Stuck With a Cheater

Also check out the works of Dr. George Simon at Dr. George K Simon, Author, In Sheep 

You need to understand that your husband is a manipulator. He knows exactly what he is doing. He knows he is hurting you and the kids and he doesn't care. No, not enough.

Please value you yourself and your kids enough to leave. I promise you there is a GOOD life on the other side. (Yes, even with financial hardship, I get that too.)

Big hugs to you.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Please don't stay with this serial cheater. You will only end up getting hurt again down the road...and again and again and again and again


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## YellowRoses (Jun 2, 2012)

Well I made it through last night and thank you all for the support

Chumplady, you have some good writing on your blog, I like your no nonsense style.

You are absolutely right with your 5 things in my case

Brain says one thing, emotions say another - same old, same old

Its a tough road and a long one - please excuse me if I pull over into the layby for a bit.


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## Pax1221 (Nov 7, 2017)

YellowRose- I am going through the same thing. What ended up happening with you and your husband now that is 5 years down the road?


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