# Men - Please help me out



## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

What I'm interested in knowing is:

Do men have the capability to experience empathy? 

My definition is: the ability to recognize, perceive and feel the emotions of another; often characterized as the ability to “put oneself into another's shoes”.

If so, do you express it?

If not, is it due to social conditioning?


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Do men feel empathy? Absolutley.

So imagine when I was a boy, to be very upset say at the killing of an animal, for food from hunting or even on a farm.

But as I grew older, to see the cycle of life and death, to see the good that will come from the killed animal, to provide for a family, I am seeing often my empathy and emotion is misplaced, to feel sorrow and respect for the animal is okay, but not to be overly swayed to avoid doing what needs to be done because of this emotion.

Also for example as a teenager growing up was physical altercations something I was not unfamiliar with, not always just because of emotion or need for self defense, but because some other boy was acting dangerous or threatening another. And if I was to hurt another very badly, yes I would absolutely empathize but understand at that time it was not the time to act on such emotoin, but to stand on my responsibility and principle. 

Now as a man I have grown to realize my role and responsiblities often require me to act in this philosophy or principle, althougth to say leaving fistfights and such things behind in my youth, but as well to see in politics and relationships and my career even in my day to day living to do things that inside are often hurtful, but given the big picture are still necessary.

For instance, to not hire or terminate from employment someone that I am fond of would be an example of this today.

So I express it like this, I do not behave in a way that I would not expect another to behave. 

But there is not the reason to express with tears or words one feeling, but behave in another, as that is dishonest.

So whether to kill an animal, or settle a physical dispute, or terminate an employee, these things are always best to be done swiftly and promptly and professionally, and not to spend much time with tears or words!

Also I would not call this social conditioning, but life experience!


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

older experienced men most likely, yes. But "batteries not included."

gays? nope. overrated/heightened sensitivity levels is a myth/misnomer. they can be just as insensitive as hetero,
and maybe moreso.

yet, due to internal & external factors, its harder to find in most men (DNA & societies restrictions).

methinks H's who truly love their W's, get trained,
conditioned into being better empathizers than single M.

whether their level/skill is *appreciated* is another thread/story.

overall i'd guess conservatively its only 20% of H's who are so successfully wired/trained/skilled in the art of empathy.

shalom..........


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Empathy, or lack of it, is not gender specific. There are very few people who lack empathy, they're mainly labelled narcissistic or psychopathic.

But I believe there are is another category of people who while they posses empathy, they don’t demonstrate it. These people learnt at an early age to suppress their emotions, probably due to a trauma or traumas during their early years. These people consider themselves “emotionally strong” and people who demonstrate their emotions as “emotionally weak”.

That is these people think it wrong to demonstrate their own emotions and others are wrong to demonstrate their emotions. I believe my wife fits into this category.

For the spouse living with a narcissist, psychopath or the “emotion suppressor” the affect is more or less the same. There is no emotional support and no compassion from them. This can have devastating consequences for the spouse.

Lastly there is the person who “emotionally disconnects” from their spouse for one reason or another. I believe this is the category I fit into.

Why did you ask the question ButterflyKisses?

Bob


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Why did you ask the question ButterflyKisses?


I guess I ask in order to gain a better understanding about the way men are wired and also how my H is wired. He's not always able to completely express his emotions and I'm trying to figure out a way to relate to each other. I was thinking maybe he does suppress his feelings but I'm not quite sure. Thanks for your reply. Also thanks to BBW and cb45 for taking the time to respond. I have a little better undestanding now. I was prepared that I probably wouldn't get a whole lot of male responders on the subject.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

BK, imagine for a moment if all men, or all women come to that, were “wired” the same.

It’s simply not true is it?

So maybe you’re looking for something that just doesn’t exist. Maybe you are way over generalising in order to find your answer.

If you were to line up ten pairs of shoes, all the same and all the same size, even they would have their own subtle differences. Humans are very different in that we are all singularly unique.

Psychologists do try and group people into categories, because of the nature of their work. But even within each category they acknowledge and accept there are still unique differences.

I think it far better that you view your husband as a unique individual in and of his own right. I think that’s the way that leads to understanding and eventually acceptance.

If you’d like to get into psychology a bit then I’d recommend taking a Myers Brigg test, there are many on the internet. And ask your husband to take the same test from the same website.

If you do that you will discover the different worlds of extroversion vs. introversion, sensing vs. intuiting, thinking vs. feeling, judging vs. perceiving.

You may discover that you and your husband are “opposites”. Most people come together in marriage because they are two opposites that make a whole. It’s the magnetic attraction we feel for one another. But that very difference, being opposites, that brings us together makes good communication between the two very difficult.

Sometimes it is like husband and wife do truly live in two very different worlds, even though they share the same home, same bed, same food etc. etc.

Bob


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I think it far better that you view your husband as a unique individual in and of his own right. I think that’s the way that leads to understanding and eventually acceptance.


This is true. As I said though, he has trouble expressing into words alot of the time so I thought it would be beneficial to gain some sort of an understanding of my own and then go to him and maybe it will open something up. 

Also, by generalizing, I can better determine if I think suppressing emotions is an issue that needs to be addressed.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Find somebody you connect with.


That may be in my future...or not. For now, I'm seeing what I can make with what I already have.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

AFEH Bob

My husband like your wife shows no emotions. No emotional support, no compassion. And I like you have disconnected emotionally. I had to. I hate it because I am an emotional passionate person who has to suppress my emotions around the very one who I should be expressing them to.

Is there hope? I certainly don't see any for him. I have become weary trying to get him to see how can a marriage last and be good if there is no emotions. Take that out and whats left? Sex, yeah great for him, but not me. I need, and want both.

How do you cope?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

4Sure, my wife is a wonderful woman in many ways so I coped in the times when I needed emotional support. There were a few times when a bit of compassion would have done me wonders but it just never came. In fact I got the opposite, like a coldness and withdrawing when a hug and kiss or a nice meal and a chat was what I needed.

We’re separated 10 months now. In that time I’ve been truly amazed to see sad emotions, watery eyes, when women friends recall and talk of past sad events.

I never saw that in my wife even though she lost family members she loved deeply. She just pushed all her sad feelings deep down inside of her. I could never get her to talk about them, let them out and work through them. Apparently all her emotions came out soon after we separated, she was even “released” from a job because she kept breaking down. I think it a good thing her emotions are coming out now, she’d kept them bottled up inside her for a very long time and they all stacked up.

Bob


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

Empathy, or lack of it, is not gender specific. There are very few people who lack empathy, they're mainly labelled narcissistic or psychopathic.

But I believe there are is another category of people who while they posses empathy, they don’t demonstrate it. These people learnt at an early age to suppress their emotions, probably due to a trauma or traumas during their early years. These people consider themselves “emotionally strong” and people who demonstrate their emotions as “emotionally weak”.--AFEH

I respect your opinions based on your experiences but beg to differ here, AFEH.

Empathy can be gender specific if u really think about it in general terms of masculine vs. feminine tendencies. And re:lack i'd say it is also, as men r still dealing w/ (to a lessor degree perhaps) stereotypical societal "inputs."
I won't tediously e.g. this, as i know u r smart enough to determine what i mean.

I agree that some folk are empathy suppressed.
Yet some are empathetically selective, consciously or unconsc, w/out suppression as key. Instead, how they're "wired" by common experiences/triggers/education is a determining factor on how responsive they may or may not be in demonstrating their "gift."

I think, almost all people are selfish, and this selfishness blocks
us to a great extent from being either truly sympathic or empathetic towards other peoples plights/conditions/concerns etc.

There is a diff between being sympathetic vs. empathetic.

Sympathy = an inclination to support or be loyal to or *to agree with *an opinion; A feeling of loyalty; allegiance; mutual understanding inclination.

Empathy = the action or capacity of understanding, being aware of, being *sensitive* to, and vicariously experiencing the *feelings*, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without (necessarily)having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner.

In my simple mind, there is an *intensity* difference btwn the two also. With sypaths its all about agreement, conceptual and at a safe distance for sure. 
With empaths its all about feelings and their capacity levels to feel (& fix?) anothers pain, joy, love, hatred, etc, but with a healilng/bonding factor to it, as u share it in real-time.

I see empathy more as rare gift, not shared by "everyone"
that may or may not be carefully developed by those lucky individuals (who have it copiously in their DNA) dependent upon
internal and external factors. If anyone agrees with me on this gift & these pts, then please tread carefully with an empath. Please.

So as the saying goes BK, "be careful what u wish for, u may get it" applies to not only to the wisher but us involved spectators as well.

shalom again.................


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

cb45 said:


> So as the saying goes BK, "be careful what u wish for, u may get it" applies to not only to the wisher but us involved spectators as well.[/FONT][/SIZE]


Could you clarify a little what you mean by this, please?


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

My husband has become empathetic over the years. He wasn't always.

I remember once when our son was very young (crawling), I was trying to wash the dishes. Our son kept crawling around my feet wanting to be picked up, but I was busy so I asked my husband if he would take him so I could finish the chores. My husband then responded that he was also busy (watching tv) and why couldn't I just handle it? 

I was furious. He couldn't put himself in my position. He assumed that if it were him attempting to do chores, he's be able to handle the baby as well without asking for my help. As mad as I was, I just picked our son up and put him in his room until I was finished.

A couple of weeks later, the shoe was on the other foot. My DH was washing dishes and the baby was crawling around HIS feet. Do you know this man asked me to pick up the baby so he could finish the chores? I just looked at him and said, "Having a baby at your feet when you're trying to get things done is pretty distracting, isn't it?" He actually looked ashamed and answered, "Yes." So I picked the baby up and occupied him so my husband could finish.

Since then he's been WAY more empathetic towards me. It is a direct result in actually seeing and doing first hand what I have had to do. He has walked in my shoes when it comes to taking care of the kids and chores so he knows how hard it is. He takes my word for it now instead of assuming.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Lots of good posts here: I'd add that empathy and communication are two different things. Men are biologically less able to perceive subtle non-verbal clues then women are. That's why women are often frustrated that men don't pick up on what they are saying through inference, tone of voice, body language, etc. Many men are also less able to communicate because they are less in touch with their feelings. (Not all.) 

Careful not to get into the trap of expecting your husband to act like your girl friends. He's not a woman, and can't communicate/listen/emote in the same way women do. Men generally do better with direct communication - tell him what you want, don't infer what you want. And people in general, if they arent' getting needs met, tend not to meet needs. The typical dynamic is that the women retreats sexually, the guy feel hurt and retreats emotionally, and neither partner is getting what they want. (The relationship death spiral.) 

Hope that helps.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

cb45, what are you a non emotional robot with that name? I’m joking honestly.

I know you’ve got empathy and I understand you see empathy as a gift. But it can also be a bit of a nuisance.

Bob






cb45 said:


> Empathy, or lack of it, is not gender specific. There are very few people who lack empathy, they're mainly labelled narcissistic or psychopathic.
> 
> But I believe there are is another category of people who while they posses empathy, they don’t demonstrate it. These people learnt at an early age to suppress their emotions, probably due to a trauma or traumas during their early years. These people consider themselves “emotionally strong” and people who demonstrate their emotions as “emotionally weak”.--AFEH
> 
> ...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> Lots of good posts here: I'd add that empathy and communication are two different things. Men are biologically less able to perceive subtle non-verbal clues then women are. That's why women are often frustrated that men don't pick up on what they are saying through inference, tone of voice, body language, etc. Many men are also less able to communicate because they are less in touch with their feelings. (Not all.)
> 
> Careful not to get into the trap of expecting your husband to act like your girl friends. He's not a woman, and can't communicate/listen/emote in the same way women do. Men generally do better with direct communication - tell him what you want, don't infer what you want. And people in general, if they arent' getting needs met, tend not to meet needs. The typical dynamic is that the women retreats sexually, the guy feel hurt and retreats emotionally, and neither partner is getting what they want. (The relationship death spiral.)
> 
> Hope that helps.


Wise words SS.

I do think a man’s empathy increases with age. When we’re young and married there is so much more going on in our lives. Not the least how the heck do we pay the bills and keep our heads above water so we don’t drown. How do we buy a young son the shoes he needs. Are we going to get cut off because we can’t pay the gas or electric bill. Ejected because we can’t pay the rent. We don’t have time for empathy, we’re so busy just treading water.

I know you are right about the subtle, the oh so subtle “messages” our wives send us. And of course we don’t see them let alone understand them.

Bob


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I know you are right about the subtle, the oh so subtle “messages” our wives send us. And of course we don’t see them let alone understand them.


Here's the female perspective on that. The other day I had something I needed to do, (H knew about it) that brought out some pretty painful emotions. H gets home from work and asks, how did it go? I probably spent 20 mins. telling him how it went. He listened without interruption and when I was through, the first thing out of his mouth was a comment about son leaving his bike out in the rain. I was hurt, to say the least.

I guess the 'message' in this case was 10 years of being with me, 10 years of me getting angry oh so many times before for the same exact reason, and 10 years of telling him exactly WHY it upset me each and every time he did it.

From my perspective, there is NO WAY he could not have known what I expected from him in that situation.

When we talked about it later, he could not for the life of him, fathom how his comment could have made me feel the way it did. 

I struggled to find something that HE could relate to in order to get him to 'feel' what I felt. Nothing I tried came close, it was always a completely different emotion. I stared at this man wondering where the hell his heart was.

Short of handing him a script to follow with his 'lines' right before I am about to engage in emotional conversation, I'm at a loss as to how to relate to him. Who wants to make themselves vulnerable to someone who they have to 'persuade' to care?


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

ButterflyKisses said:


> Here's the female perspective on that. The other day I had something I needed to do, (H knew about it) that brought out some pretty painful emotions. H gets home from work and asks, how did it go? I probably spent 20 mins. telling him how it went. He listened without interruption and when I was through, the first thing out of his mouth was a comment about son leaving his bike out in the rain. I was hurt, to say the least.


Perfect example. He listened but didn't support your feelings with some affirmation that you'd been heard. Correct? (Men generally offer ways to fix things, which usually annoy women. Women generally just affirm the feelings of other women, which annoy men because nothing is being 'accomplished'.) In this case he moved on after you'd said your bit and you felt ignored.



> I guess the 'message' in this case was 10 years of being with me, 10 years of me getting angry oh so many times before for the same exact reason, and 10 years of telling him exactly WHY it upset me each and every time he did it.
> 
> From my perspective, there is NO WAY he could not have known what I expected from him in that situation.


This is the inference. He should have known what you want? Why not just tell him. Say, when I tell something difficult I experience, I want you to acknowledge it and offer something supportive to me. TELL HIM in DIRECT LANGUAGE.



> When we talked about it later, he could not for the life of him, fathom how his comment could have made me feel the way it did.


See above.



> I struggled to find something that HE could relate to in order to get him to 'feel' what I felt. Nothing I tried came close, it was always a completely different emotion. I stared at this man wondering where the hell his heart was.
> 
> Short of handing him a script to follow with his 'lines' right before I am about to engage in emotional conversation, I'm at a loss as to how to relate to him. Who wants to make themselves vulnerable to someone who they have to 'persuade' to care?


He may very well be an emotional retard, but he's YOUR emotional retard. So instead of feeling pissed off about how he is, why not just accept it, and give him the script on what you want. I know you feel like it doesn't count if he follows the script, but another perspective would be that if he does follow the script he is attempting to be caring to you in the way you want. And that, my dear, is a loving gesture on his part.

OR, just continue to stay resentful because he is how he is. Continue to overlook all the good things he brings to the table. And then eventually cheat or divorce him because you couldn't mold him in the husband you wanted. That's the reality for probably 80% on the posts on this site. That's your alternative.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> He may very well be an emotional retard, but he's YOUR emotional retard. So instead of feeling pissed off about how he is, why not just accept it, and give him the script on what you want. I know you feel like it doesn't count if he follows the script, but another perspective would be that if he does follow the script he is attempting to be caring to you in the way you want. And that, my dear, is a loving gesture on his part.
> 
> OR, just continue to stay resentful because he is how he is. Continue to overlook all the good things he brings to the table. And then eventually cheat or divorce him because you couldn't mold him in the husband you wanted. That's the reality for probably 80% on the posts on this site. That's your alternative.


As far as reality goes, I don't think it's realistic that the majority of people on this site, would be truly happy with accepting the good things that their spouse brings to the table and overlooking the not so good things. If that were the case, there wouldn't be so many affairs and divorces. The reality is, they AREN'T satisfied with overlooking the bad.

With that said, I'm not talking in terms of leaving the toilet seat up or leaving the cap off the toothpaste. 

Do I want to mold him, I don't know if I'd say that. I would like for each of us to gain a greater understanding of the other. I've made genuine attempts to understand how he's wired. Maybe with enough time and effort, my H can eventually get to the point where he actually does understand me, even just a little. I don't know if that's possible, but it's worth a shot. 

There may very well be another option besides acceptance, divorce, or affair.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Two things: This site is mostly populated with divorces, affairs, estrangement and damaged people. The happy ones don't seek out marriage forums. So the people on this site posting for solutions aren't exactly the best models. We're here because we're trying to figure it out.

Second: I did provide you an alternative - tell him exactly what you want him to do. If you insist on making him discover what you need through his attempt to understand you, you are setting yourself up for failure. The fact that he is TRYING to understand (by virtue of listening to you) means he wants to. He just doesn't get it.

Try this: Teach your cat to sit and stay on command. Go try. It's possible, but it's bloody hard because cat's aren't wired to be obedient. It goes against their nature. 

Accept his nature and work with it. Or be miserable. You're choice.


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> tell him exactly what you want him to do.


I have. I tell him that I need to feel heard and supported. He's been hearing it for quite some time. Do I need to tell him each and every time that it applies?

He tells me that he needs to feel appreciated. Now I do it alot more often. I don't wait for him to come to me when he's finished with a task and say "Ok, I'm done clearing out that fence row out back. Now is when I want you to acknowledge that it looks great and tell me you realize all the hard work I put into it."


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

"I need to feel heard" may be too open to interpretation. How about, "in order for me to feel heard and supported when I talk to you about my feelings I need you to do the following ACTIONS: a, b and c." 

Just tell him once or twice. He may be a literal person and need that level of instruction.


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## peacefully (Nov 13, 2009)

I am going to put it out there that most people on this site are posting from the position of either: saying what they wish they could say, or hearing what they wish they could hear- behaving the way they wish they could behave, or finding ways that they could make their spouse behave the way they wish they would behave...

I also notice that the men (who are seem really great, and seem to mean well) want to fix things and give really great advice on how to speak TO THEM (which is great and helpful), but there is very little insight on how to get THEM to hear, listen or speak to US (other than talk on dominance)...

Everyone is coming with their own damage and viewpoint. 
My advice is to come here to vent, to have a safe place to air your problems, but take the advice with a grain of salt, as it's all coming from what people wish they could accomplish in their own lives.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Men and women communicate so differently. I remember trying to listen to my wife. I wasn’t supposed to interrupt at all, not even for clarification of what it was she was trying to communicate to me. I couldn’t even “interrupt” to gain further understanding.

By the time she’d go to the third or fourth topic I’d forgotten the first two and my head was in a spin. I just couldn’t follow what she was saying let alone understand. Then I felt a glaze come over my eyes and started thinking on other things, at the same time watching out for when the monologue had finished.

It usually finished with a “I knew you wouldn’t listen”. But I tried hard to listen.

I came to recognise that how my wife was “communicating” to me was in the same way that she communicated with her close female friends. I’ve watched them “communicate” this way for hours on end. One talks their monologue while the other sits there and listens putting in the ohs and ahs at the appropriate times.

My younger sister used to drive my dad nuts. She too spoke in a monologue and he’d say “When are you going to get to the point?”.

I came to recognise that the point of the monologue is to “share”. It’s not to seek solutions to problems. It’s not to be “understood”. It is quite simply to “share”.

I think when a wife “shares” with her husband in that way the husband is privileged. Plus it’s him she’s “sharing” with and not another man. It is a fundamental way, I think, that a wife remains emotionally attached to her husband. “He listens to me. He doesn’t interrupt and he doesn’t offer solutions”. I’ve seen my wife get up out of her chair after sharing in this way like a refreshed schoolgirl, like a tremendous wait has been taken off of her shoulders. And all I had to do was sit there and listen and oh and ah in the right places.

But believe me I was no expert at it and it most certainly didn’t come naturally. I think the more feminine the wife is and the more masculine the husband is the harder this sort of thing is to do.

It’s funny in a way. I use to be in sales, really high tech, complex, big money stuff. And I don’t have the “gift of the gab”. I simply don’t. When I was with a client I use to listen 80% of the time and speak 20% or thereabouts.

This was designed to (a) thoroughly understand the client’s problems and objectives and (b) let the client know I fully understand both. Then I would “demonstrate” how my companies products and services solved their problems and help them obtain their objectives. That’s how I got my orders.

But sitting there listening for 100% of the time? That I found immensely difficult and in some way painful for me. I just did not feel that I was participating let alone communicating and understanding. And it took me a long time to see the “point of it all” as no solutions were required to the problems expressed.

Bob


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

peacefully said:


> I am going to put it out there that most people on this site are posting from the position of either: saying what they wish they could say, or hearing what they wish they could hear- behaving the way they wish they could behave, or finding ways that they could make their spouse behave the way they wish they would behave...
> 
> I also notice that the men (who are seem really great, and seem to mean well) want to fix things and give really great advice on how to speak TO THEM (which is great and helpful), but there is very little insight on how to get THEM to hear, listen or speak to US (other than talk on dominance)...
> 
> ...


I totally agree with this. I also think that the posters (men and women alike) can have tunnel vision when they come across posts they can relate to from the opposite viewpoint. Sometimes it seems the one giving advice almost places the poster in the shoes of their spouse or ex-spouse and proceeds to speak to them as such, sometimes with all the pent up bitterness that consumes them, therefore the problem is looked at from a biased viewpoint. IMO


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I think when a wife “shares” with her husband in that way the husband is privileged. Plus it’s him she’s “sharing” with and not another man. It is a fundamental way, I think, that a wife remains emotionally attached to her husband. “He listens to me. He doesn’t interrupt and he doesn’t offer solutions”. I’ve seen my wife get up out of her chair after sharing in this way like a refreshed schoolgirl, like a tremendous wait has been taken off of her shoulders. And all I had to do was sit there and listen and oh and ah in the right places.


Exactly. And a W who can have this with her H is far less likely to go looking for it elsewhere. A small price to pay, if you ask me. Hard for men to do? Yes. But maybe easier than what NOT doing it leads to. Pulling away, no longer being "in love", lack of intimacy, affairs, divorce..


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Well you do seem to be in a very hard place. I hope what I post is helping you at least to try and understand one man’s point of view.

It is a very small price to pay BK but many just don’t get it. I didn’t for longer than I care to tell. And I was still very uncomfortable doing it for a couple of reasons. First off I felt a bit of a fraud and manipulative and credibility and straightforwardness is very important to me. Secondly my wife expressed problems/issues that I was asked not to do anything about.

In a way my wife expected/wanted me to behave as a woman on these occasions. On the other hand when I needed to express problems and seek solutions we could agree with I got of stonewalling and denial. She couldn’t deal with my rationalising, long term planning solution oriented brain.

It is all about communication and either the husband or wife has to at least try and step into the mind of the other in order to understand the other.

At times I tried to get my wife to marriage counselling but she’d never go. I think if I asked her come with to communication coaching she probably would have come along. She did read a few of the books I had about work related communication but there’s nothing like being led and demonstrated to by a coach.

Bob


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Well you do seem to be in a very hard place. I hope what I post is helping you at least to try and understand one man’s point of view.


I do appreciate it. I realize that my H is his own person but sometimes it helps to hear the thoughts of other men to gain a little more understanding of things my H might not be able to express.





AFEH said:


> In a way my wife expected/wanted me to behave as a woman on these occasions. On the other hand when I needed to express problems and seek solutions we could agree with I got of stonewalling and denial. She couldn’t deal with my rationalising, long term planning solution oriented brain.


I think I'm in the minority here but as long as my thoughts and feelings are acknowledged and listened to and I feel heard and comforted, I don't really have a problem with accepting problem solving or solutions. I'm a problem solving type of person myself, so alot of the time, I welcome my H's advice.



AFEH said:


> It is all about communication and either the husband or wife has to at least try and step into the mind of the other in order to understand the other.


This is what I've been attempting to do, and we've actually made a little progress. I'm realizing things about my H that I never really thought much about before. Trying to really get into his head and understand, and he into mine.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Effective communication can be very simple to very complex. Put a group of 3 sales people, mixed genders, together to work on a 12 month sales plan and they’ll communicate effectively. Put a football team in room to talk about the tactics to be used for Saturday’s game and they’ll communicate effectively.

Put a husband and wife together and ……….. in come all the emotions, all the “history”, all the very predictable behaviour etc. etc.

You may get into body language, interpersonal psychology and other things and spend an inordinate amount of time and effort trying to learn how to communicate effectively with a spouse.

Effective communication is you know immensely important. We all feel the need to be “understood”, especially by our life partner.

Why not look for a communication workshop in your area or find a communication coach?

The investment of time and money will pay back excellent dividends. And instead of taking the two of you perhaps years to learn how to communicate effectively you could learn in one day at a workshop or in two or three hours with a communication coach.

It sounds like you’re both behind this and want it to happen. There simply could not be a better place to start.

Bob


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> .Why not look for a communication workshop in your area or find a communication coach?


This is a good idea and I'll look into it. Thanks


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

seeking sanity said:


> Two things: This site is mostly populated with divorces, affairs, estrangement and damaged people. The happy ones don't seek out marriage forums. So the people on this site posting for solutions aren't exactly the best models. We're here because we're trying to figure it out.
> 
> Second: I did provide you an alternative - tell him exactly what you want him to do. If you insist on making him discover what you need through his attempt to understand you, you are setting yourself up for failure. The fact that he is TRYING to understand (by virtue of listening to you) means he wants to. He just doesn't get it.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

There really is a difference between empathy and sharing a long conversation about the annoyances of the day without speaking about a solution to it.

Your husband may very well be empathetic to your plight, your life. Does that mean he can sit and and listen to it endlessly (male definition of endlessly, not female definition).

Once he realizes that there is no end to the talking about something with no solution endured, he will clam up.

Doesn't mean he isn't empathetic. 

Maybe he realizes you are not empathetic to what he is experiencing?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I don’t know where you’re at in your life’s journey BK. If I was going to try and summarise where you are right now I would say you are very much in love with your husband but you feel that you are neither heard or understood. I would also say that you will undertake every endeavour to be heard and understood because you instinctively feel the importance of those things and I would say that your husband is trying to do his part.

I want to give you a scale of the problem you are both facing. I sincerely hope this does not come across is me thumping my chest.

I used to run sales and support teams. Big ticket complex sales. I spent 30,000 dollars on a two day sales training course. The impact of that investment was absolutely phenomenal. The single biggest thing that happened was that suddenly, in two days, we all had a common lexicon. We were all using the same set of words to communicate the same meaning. Communication in the teams ramped up exponentially and the orders followed.

But I was totally at a loss when it came to communication with my wife. Totally at a loss.

I really do hope you invest money in effective communication. If you need to “sell it” to your husband? Let him ponder on the fact that what he learns is personally beneficial in all walks of life, in all the roles he plays as a husband, a father, a son, an employee or employer, a buddy.

Effective communication is a life skill.

Kudos to you BK. 10 out of 10 and gold stars. You will get there. If you don’t it will not be for want of trying. Somehow I know you know that.

Bob


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## ButterflyKisses (Aug 30, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I don’t know where you’re at in your life’s journey BK. If I was going to try and summarise where you are right now I would say you are very much in love with your husband but you feel that you are neither heard or understood. I would also say that you will undertake every endeavour to be heard and understood because you instinctively feel the importance of those things and I would say that your husband is trying to do his part.
> 
> I want to give you a scale of the problem you are both facing. I sincerely hope this does not come across is me thumping my chest.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bob. I see changes in our marriage already and I hope that we can continue to make some real progress.


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