# Wanting to know the whole truth



## 3rdTime (Jun 8, 2017)

I am a 42 year old Male, my wife is 40. We have two girls 9 and 11. Married 13 years, dating for 5 before then. I have a high paying great job that I love, my wife a solid part time gig and spends a lot of time with the kids. We have been blessed (I guess) to live the typical and relatively happy upper-class suburban lifestyle (which you will see from all the trips my wife takes) for as long as I can remember. 

I had a serial sequence of affairs with 4 younger Vegas-type girls over about a year in 2009-2010. I would essentially meet them in Vegas or on business trips maybe once a month. Long story short on that one, the lies caught up to me in May of 2010 and I confessed EVERYTHING in one fail swoop. I know now from reading this forum how rare that is - but for whatever reason that’s just how I’m wired which has its pros and cons. We reconciled over the second half of 2010 and I felt things were back on track in 2011.

Our biggest issue, other than the infidelity, has been an anger problem that sometimes rears its head for me - though things have improved over the past 5 years and dramatically in the past year.

Fast forward to the present - it turns out my wife had a entitlement/revenge-type affair in 2011 that lasted in various forms until last summer. She has been trickling out the truth now in 3 versions starting in August of last year. Typical story, I grabbed her iPad with a little suspicion over a recent girls trip and found some texts implying her girlfriends arrived a day later than she did. I confronted her and got V1 of the story (below). I almost believed it - amazing when I look back - but it was so patently absurd that even naive me, with no education from this forum, managed to call BS and was able with a small amount of sleuthing and pressure to get her to confess to V2 in a matter of weeks. I obviously didn’t handle this well, but one thing we did right was send a NC note to AP right away and I’m as certain as I can be there has been no contact since. Our marriage, and sex life, have actually been better than ever this past year.

V2 of story lasted from mid August of last year until yesterday. I initially had some suspicions, but let them go in time. It wasn’t until a couple of weeks ago I stumbled upon this forum and read time and time again that
- cheaters always trickle out the truth
- when adults in an affair have had sex, they have sex at each opportunity
- rarely are condoms used

As you see below - V2 had all of these flaws and so I doubled down my detective work mostly around email backups, pushed her hard on inconsistencies, and yesterday got to V3. I’m still not handling this as generally prescribed, but frankly there are just some things I can’t bring myself to do.

V1 (An odd obsession)
- She met AP at a bar on a girls trip in Feb ’11 when he was also on vacation. They live halfway across the country from each other. He is about our age, handsome, fun, bachelor lifestyle, semi-semi-semi-semi-famous (i.e. you can google him, but nobody does except my wife). That night ended in a drunken kiss on the dance floor. They hung out Sunday to watch the Super Bowl and chemistry built, but nothing else happened.
- She ends up becoming obsessed with the concept of this guy as a fantasy and it consumes her for at least a year
- They talk a few times a year and transition into friends
- Out of the blue in Jun ’16 he sees an Instagram post from her when she is in his city with our family, texts her to grab a friendly drink, but nothing comes of it
- She then plans her 40th bday girls trip for Jul ’16 in his city (coincidentally) and once that was setup she planned for her and a girlfriend to meet him for a drink the first night to get emotional ‘closure’
- That girlfriend gets sick and doesn’t arrive that day, she decides to go ahead with the drink, which turns into dinner as well, but they part friends late that night and she goes home alone to her hotel room. Girlfriends show up the next day, all is good.

V2 (One-time PA, long time EA)
- Feb ’11 trip the same
- Out of entitlement/revenge she decides to schedule a fake girls trip in Mar ’11 to see him where he lives
- It is obvious what will happen on this trip in the lead-up (he sends her an X-rated pic, she reminds him to get condoms, etc.)
- Affair turns physical with a 24 hour afternoon/evening/morning tryst
- He has a work trip to our city in Apr ’11 where they hang out for the day doing outdoor activities, but no opportunity arises for sex (claimed he is too cheap to get a hotel, she didn’t want to cheapen it by getting one herself or doing it in car, outdoors, etc.)
- She invites him to meet her on a trip in Jun ’16 but he declines due to work
- They continue to talk, text, even video talk (PG rated) for the balance of 2011, though it gradually flames out
- She does admit that IF there had been opportunity (i.e. lived in same city) then there is no question she would have had more than one physical encounter as she was obsessed
- Jul ’16 as described above - just friends

V3 (More extensive PA, but is it the whole truth?)
- She still only admits to having seen AP 4 times (Feb ’11, Mar ’11, Apr ’11, Jul '16), but now admits to having sex each and every time (vs. just the Mar ’11 trip). She claims that sex in Jul ’16 was not her plan when scheduling and did indeed want closure, but he charmed himself into her hotel room.
- She now admits that all four sex sessions were mostly if not entirely unprotected (vs. careful pre-planned use of condoms in the one time before). She was not on birth control for the three sessions in '11. She claims she did not get pregnant, have an abortion, or use the morning after pill. We both got a full STD panel today and DNA kits for the girls arrive from Amazon tomorrow.
- She now admits to an extensive multi-month virtual affair from after the Apr ’11 session through the fall. He sent her X-rated pictures and videos which she kept and occasionally viewed until early 2014. That progressed to each of them sending X-rated emails and texts. This progressed to phone sex with masturbation and then culminated in 5 or so video-sessions where they masturbated live with each other. (vs before she just admitted to his sending an X-rated pic)
- Less important to me (but still lies)
* She had previously consoled me by saying the sex with AP wasn't that good as she faked all her orgasms. She now admits that of course that is completely untrue.
* Based on my scheduling a polygraph for next Wednesday and insisting on the whole truth or divorce, she also admitted to having sex with each of her prior two boyfriends at some point in the first 6 months we started dating, and kissing, etc. a random guy on a Mexico girls trip a few years later. All of this was well before we were married.

Other things I’m doing
- I still find it very suspicious they did not meet up more than the first 3 times in ’11 given that things were so hot and heavy. I listed a dozen or so trips from 2011-present where she had opportunity to meet him and we went through them one by one and she specifically denied each one. I plan to use the polygraph, a detailed review of phone records during/around these opportunities, and a detailed review of email backups in the same time periods to see if I can find contradictions here.
- I have considered VARs, but so far in this process she has told NOBODY any of her secrets - no friends, not even her counselor, until after I pulled it out of her. This path seems like a lot of brain damage and work with very little return.
- I have an appointment with a divorce lawyer Monday to understand options. I’m wondering if some sort of fidelity-based post-nup is legal.

To be clear, I do not at all want to divorce. I love my wife (at least the imagined version that doesn’t cheat and lie) and my family. What I’m really interested in is advice around
a) any other ideas to ensure that I have the whole truth (this AP or any others) so I know what I’m forgiving / can decide if I should
b) any other ideas to stop future lying and cheating


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## Radch1988 (Jun 3, 2017)

3rdtime. 

Sorry you are here but I think on this occasion there might be no clear answers to your questions. 

Trickle truth is something I had to deal with and even then you never know if you're getting all the facts or just a sugar coated version. The truth of the matter is that when someone can lie to their spouse once, sure as hell they can do it again. I think it even gets easier. 

You also have to realise that you are not innocent in all this. Just because you came clean with everything doesn't make you a better person for what you did. It's just that guilt can consume us in different ways. 

There is absolutely no answer to question B apart from divorce. You cannot and should not - ever - control your spouses behaviour. The only people that can put this right is you and your wife. 

If you are both willing to seek advice from a MC. / IC. and work through this together then with time you can make the decision to stay or leave. Don't forget in all this that your wife will still have issues from your indiscretions which was bound to have played a role in her decisions. 

Just know not to make any big decisions right now. Take a bit more time to reflect and think what impact to everyone around you your decision would make. 

In the mean time take care of yourself and your family. 







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sancheharri (Mar 30, 2017)

3rdtime, imho, aside from a polygraph or lie detector test, you will NEVER get the WHOLE truth - especially from those who got CAUGHT. perhaps, it might be a different story if someone VOLUNTARILY confessed, but not in your case.

i, too, obsessed in getting answers and the whole truth, but all i got were the same as you got - TRICKLE TRUTHS and conflicting answers. when a PROVEN LIAR does this, what "version" is really the truth? can you really believe 100% anything they say from thereon? good luck with that.

of course, you still love her and you want to believe her if "she only tells you the complete story". but that's the problem - you will never get it. 

imho, either you entirely believe her final version of the truth and LET IT GO, then go 101% in trying to save your marriage...OR let go of your marriage. holding on to it while pursuing the whole and complete affair story will bring you nowhere but misery.

read other stories in this forum and you'll get my point.

as to your 2nd question, remember this - NOBODY CAN PREVENT someone from CHEATING. it is the WW/WH decison/choice alone. cheating happens in both happy and terrible marriages. perhaps, one can MINIMIZE the possibility by doing all the right things in marriage, but one can only do so much. it will MOSTLY depend on your spouse if she/he will CHOOSE to be unfaithful.

the wife you married and loved is gone. this is a completely different person you're dealing with now. the earlier you accept this, the earlier you will get started in recovery.

learn more about this issue that you're going through. read, ask, and think thoroughly so you can make an informed and wise decision for yourself and your children.

i wish you the best of luck...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

3rdTime said:


> I am a 42 year old Male, my wife is 40. We have two girls 9 and 11. Married 13 years, dating for 5 before then. I have a high paying great job that I love, my wife a solid part time gig and spends a lot of time with the kids. We have been blessed (I guess) to live the typical and relatively happy upper-class suburban lifestyle (which you will see from all the trips my wife takes) for as long as I can remember.
> 
> I had a serial sequence of affairs with 4 younger Vegas-type girls over about a year in 2009-2010. I would essentially meet them in Vegas or on business trips maybe once a month. Long story short on that one, the lies caught up to me in May of 2010 and I confessed EVERYTHING in one fail swoop. I know now from reading this forum how rare that is - but for whatever reason that’s just how I’m wired which has its pros and cons. We reconciled over the second half of 2010 and I felt things were back on track in 2011.
> 
> ...


You got to be kidding me, sleuthing on your wife, worried about her A when you yourself were involved (might I add long before her A) with four women. I am afraid what is sauce for the gander is also sauce for the goose. You play the game of infidelity this is the fall out. Many women would have just divorced your ass instead she chose a revenge affair, I don't agree with it but who could blame her. You are both cheaters now. Maybe if you hadn't dumped your crap on her she would not have done this, who knows. If you want to save the marriage, you have to forgive one another and get into intensive counselling.

You may think your four women were just sex but they crushed your wife and how does it feel with the shoe on the other foot? You think somehow you should get brownie points for coming clean, no you don't, you created this **** storm, accept that.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

So your suggestion is that people should not try to reconcile from revenge affairs.

Got it


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Either the two of you "confirmed cheaters" agree to undergo extensive marriage counseling together, or in the absence of that, plan to make separate family attorney appointments! It is crystal clear that much deeper issues are at work here in your marital relationship!

I am most unmoved by both your W's covert trading of "tit for tat," just as I am by your earlier infidelious episode of trading "tat for tit!" *


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

eric1 said:


> So your suggestion is that people should not try to reconcile from revenge affairs.
> 
> Got it


Eric, was this question addressed to me? Revenge affairs means that the person is hurting and using the wrong approach most definitely. If both cheated then why is he digging, for what, the extent of her cheating is irrelevant, they both need therapy or to decide they have so little respect for one another to end it. 

If my H was with 4 LAs vegas type girls over a year, I wouldn't have a revenge affair, I would divorce him then meet someone else worthy of me.
What I have an issue with is that this guy is all into investigating his wife but simply glosses over his 4 counts of infidelity. WTF!:scratchhead::wtf::wtf:


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

3rdTime said:


> - I have an appointment with a divorce lawyer Monday to understand options. I’m wondering if some sort of fidelity-based post-nup is legal.


If you wife was smart, that's what SHE should have done after all your screwing around. And your bragging about "4 younger Vegas type girls" is as pitiful - and transparent - as it gets. Sorry, not impressed.



> To be clear, I do not at all want to divorce. I love my wife (at least the imagined version that doesn’t cheat and lie) and my family.


I'm sure your wife felt the same way about YOU before finding out who she was *really* married to.

I think you did irreparable damage to the marriage and she definitely has a different outlook now. Maybe she thinks, "why should I continually devote 110% of myself to someone who lets his **** do his thinking for him?" I can't disagree with her.

Some women are happy to eat the **** sandwich their husbands serve them.

Some are not. 

She's one of the 'nots.'


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Neither if you seem to be capable of monogamy and it seems neither wants a divorce, so why not just have an open marriage?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

3rdTime said:


> I love my wife (at least the imagined version that doesn’t cheat and lie)...


Funny, I bet that's what she thought about you after learning you cheated four times with four different women in the span of one year (?!)

You totally glossed over what you did, specifically, measurably, individually, and as a couple, to reconcile after she learned of your affairs. She had her own reasons for a "revenge" affair, but there were clearly some unresolved matters and it wasn't as reconciled as you thought.

Knowing more about the remorseful steps you took would help build the basis of the story. I'm not agreeing with what she did at all, but hurt people hurt people. Addressing the hurt completely, unabashedly, and directly is very painful but necessary IMO, and few couples do it correctly.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

There is one thing for you to remember. She has basically in one way or another cheated on you sense the two of you started dating. 

You cheated for about a year, came clean and admitted everything to your wife. 

Your wife has had sex and kisses from different guys sense you started dating and only can somewhat clean when a poly was scheduled. 

She knows she will take you to the cleaners if you divorce, so why would she really care about her actions. Yes you both cheated but the difference in the aftermath is night and day.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Neither if you seem to be capable of monogamy and it seems neither wants a divorce, so why not just have an open marriage?


Might not be true for the OP. 

Definitely true for his wife.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> If you wife was smart, that's what SHE should have done after all your screwing around. And your bragging about "4 younger Vegas type girls" is as pitiful - and transparent - as it gets. Sorry, not impressed.
> 
> 
> I'm sure your wife felt the same way about YOU before finding out who she was *really* married to.
> ...


And you over look that fact that Op came clean about his short comings. 

Also that after they started dating she slept around with ex BF's did something with another guy in Mexico and had an affair from 2011 to 2016.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Shall we get a firing squad together as well. 

Damn, is all honesty. If you believe only part of his story then you can say he cheated first. 

She has admitted to cheating while dating now as well. Or is it ok to cheat on the person you are dating?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I truly believe over half the post on this thread would have a different tone if the OP's gender was female. 

A females cheating can always be over looked and in some way blamed on the husband of course.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

And for those that keep brings up his four women. 

She had at the very least 5 guys.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

3rdtime

I'm not really sure just what it is that you are trying to get, but if it's the truth, you won't get it one hundred percent. By this I mean, there are some details either forgotten or that some just won't share. It would be impossible for your wife to tell you everything they discussed. Nobody will remember everything they said from 2011 to now. Sexual trysts are easier to remember, but your wife may not want to share them with you. 

Getting the full truth is difficult at best, I don't think I ever got the full truth in my wife's case either. I have what I believe is very close to the full truth, but nobody really ever gets the full truth. Usually there is something held back, one small detail or on small feeling that isn't revealed. So in my opinion, getting the full truth just isn't possible.


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## sancheharri (Mar 30, 2017)

...


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## sancheharri (Mar 30, 2017)

* Based on my scheduling a polygraph for next Wednesday and insisting on the whole truth or divorce said:


> i overlooked this...she cheated while you were still dating...then you cheated...then she cheated AGAIN. she was CAUGHT (cheating during marriage), then was FORCED TO ADMIT (cheating while still dating) in the face of a lie-detector test. you cheated (during your marriage) BUT VOLUNTARILY admitted. there is a huge difference between being caught / forced to admit , AND VOLUNTARILY CONFESSING.
> 
> i am just new to this forum and undergoing through my own issues, and i do not condone what you did, but if i may say this unsolicited advice to you, my friend - think very hard and reconsider your choice of staying with her. you wife is already a repeat offender (or even a "hardcore").


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

ABHale said:


> I truly believe over half the post on this thread would have a different tone if the OP's gender was female.
> 
> A females cheating can always be over looked and in some way blamed on the husband of course.


I don't think many of the female posters on TAM would endorse letting a woman "get away" with cheating.
At least, I can't think of a single time I've seen it encouraged. The ladies here are pretty hardcore about accountability, from either gender.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

aine said:


> You got to be kidding me, sleuthing on your wife, worried about her A when you yourself were involved (might I add long before her A) with four women. I am afraid what is sauce for the gander is also sauce for the goose. You play the game of infidelity this is the fall out. Many women would have just divorced your ass instead she chose a revenge affair, I don't agree with it but who could blame her. You are both cheaters now. Maybe if you hadn't dumped your crap on her she would not have done this, who knows. If you want to save the marriage, you have to forgive one another and get into intensive counselling.
> 
> You may think your four women were just sex but they crushed your wife and how does it feel with the shoe on the other foot? You think somehow you should get brownie points for coming clean, no you don't, you created this **** storm, accept that.


Hey buddy, you had the affair first and now your crying that your wife had an affair to? Any fallout from any of the affairs you deserve.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

The big difference between the two is that his year long affairs with 4 difference Vegas girls seem to be a one and done type deal.

Her 6 year long affair with the same man seems to be with someone she is emotionally invested in - she is attracted to the affair partner and has feelings of love for him. She kept going back to him time and time again when possible and continued electronic contact over the years.

It appears OP triggered this clust*r f**k with his actions and his wife left the marriage as a result of it and did not tell him. He still does not have the whole truth, she is not sorry for what she has done, just sorry for getting caught after 6 years. It probably started as a revenge affair until she developed feelings for the AP and kept it going. She feels vindicated in what she has done and that he deserved to be punished for betrayal. Her affairs while they were dating is another story but does offer a unique look into her mind. I don't think she considers those cheating since they were not yet married.

Sorry OP, but to your wife, you are plan B. Financial support and babysitter.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You will never know if you DO get the whole truth. It's impossible to prove a negative.

Frankly, the two of you would be better off married to people who agree to an open marriage. Or not married to anyone at all. You're both serial cheaters.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Have her write a timeline and diary of the A and or A's.

Have her take the polly on her written timeline.

She had sex with him and others. It was wild monkey sex. She did anal , oral and threesome. (both MMF and M FF)

She has never loved you. You are her backup plan.

if you can't live with that, then File for D.

This is not her only rodeo. She will never give you the wild monkey sex she gave to the others.

Sorry.

drive her over to his house. She can move there.


She is still addicted to him. She does not care about you. she wants him again. She would if she could. If not okay with you, file for D. She is an addict, he is her drug.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

TDSC60 said:


> Her 6 year long affair with the same man seems to be with someone she is emotionally invested in - she is attracted to the affair partner and has feelings of love for him. She kept going back to him time and time again when possible and continued electronic contact over the years.


Of course she has a high romantic interest in him. That's why the sex is better with this cat. Woman always have the best sex with the man she has the highest romantic interest in. If you don't believe it, ask them. (other than the romantic interest, folks go through the same basic mechanical motions, viz, you screw just like I do.) 
Old 3rd Time lowered his wife's romantic interest in him when he cheating with the party girls in Vagas. When her and many other women's interest is lost, it never comes back. Time of 3rd time to cash in his remaining chips and hit the trail. Goes to prove what happens in Vagus, doesn't always stay in Vagas.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't see her cheating as a revenge affair. It went on for too long, far beyond the 'shock' of your own betrayal. I think her A is your garden-variety A in which she betrays, lies, TT's, minimizes, and justifies.

You turned your marriage into an open marriage with your 4 OW's & she paid attention to that and has been acting like it's an open marriage ever since.

If neither one of you wants an open marriage, then you have both done a thorough job of breaking your traditional marriage. You're now just limping along in a relationship where both of you are bad actors who simply can't be trusted.

I would go for IC for each of you and advise some time to think about whether you really want to put in the effort to repair things. 

Also, the poly should be for both of you. How does she know that you haven't been cheating this whole time?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dear OP;

My 2 cents. You both cheated multiple times. You both seem to want to stay married.

Let the past go, you can't be sure you will get the whole truth and it really doesn't matter.

My advice to you is for you and our W to focus on the future and bury the past. Your marriage you had is over, because your wife isn't the person you thought she was and you were not the person she thought you were. Just because your marriage is over, doesn't mean you need to get a divorce.

I would suggest marriage counseling for both of you and a meeting of the minds as to future expectations for your "new marriage" if you stay married. You both need to express you expectations for both yourself and your spouse in terms of fidelity, openness, and commitment. 

You and your wife can't change the past, but you can both work hard to change the future so it does not look like the past.

Good luck.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

3rd time
*You do not need any more truths*, you have enough right now and you know that your wife has serious problems with truth and loyalty and has proved that for YEARS!...You are no prize either as you showed your own selfishness with the Las Vegas women. Your marriage will never be real good and has a high possibility of getting worse than it is right now.

As for your question of “…any other ideas to stop future lying and cheating”
Yeah I got a good idea.* Divorce and make helping your children your absolute number one priority;* forget about your wife as there is a very bleak future with her…You and your wife have damaged the marriage significantly!..You can try and R if you want but your chances are slim to none and slim may have left the building!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife agreed to the poly? So she went five years without seeing him. That's hard to believe. 

Is he still a bachelor? Have you thought of outing him anyway? Why didn't she run off with him? What did the emails etc. indicate? 

How can she actually turn off a six year obsession?

Did you DNA your kids,?


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

Ask yourself after everything, does it really matter at this point?

It also seems like her activities were more about revenge than anything else (not telling anyone else, not running off with him yet). Have you thought that she could be embellishing some of these details just to hurt you?

If you are truly concerned with saving your marriage, I wouldn't be so worried about the 'what' but more concerned about the 'what now'... Does she love you and only you? Is she committed to making it work? Is this just for the kids?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> Hey buddy, you had the affair first and now your crying that your wife had an affair to? Any fallout from any of the affairs you deserve.


If you read his post. His wife started cheating on him when they were dating. Or is that not cheating sense they were not married yet.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I am assuming her affair is emotional and sexual whereas your flings were purely sexual.

That puts reconciliation in real jeopardy IMO

The fact that she was cheating from the outset is also very disturbing

Your willingness to have flings is also indicative of someone who feels constrained by monogamy

You should definitely seek IC - each of you - to find out what you are seeking outside of marriage, find out if you're likely to find it, and get a realistic assessment about your ability to be monogamous

As to MC - the point would be to see if you two are comparable and actually interested in each other's well being

Finally, even in this context, you should research how successful open relationships work. Clearly you would have to build strong bonds and trust first, but if you both accept the premise then maybe the trust may not be as hard as you might think. If you can be honest about your dalliances and somehow be equitable perhaps that could work

You would have to seek out an appropriate forum since we only have a few poly / open relationship people here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3rdTime (Jun 8, 2017)

Lots of productive comments - thanks everyone. I'll touch on a few points here

* I do not believe I was trying to minimize my affairs or the effect they had on our marriage. I didn't spend much time in the post on it as it wasn't really where my questions were - but I did want to mention as it's clearly relevant. I'm not trying to grade or judge us against each other. We are both broken. That said, since several of you mentioned something along these lines I will spend more time considering my role in all of this.

* We are both in counseling and have been for some time. It is quite helpful - as messed up as we are we would be much worse without it.

* A lot of folks seem to be saying my focus on 'truth' and 'prevention' is misguided and if we want to successfully reconcile, which I know I do and she says she does, then that is where our energy should be devoted. I think that is helpful advice.


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## 3rdTime (Jun 8, 2017)

* We are doing the poly on Wednesday. The 5 year gap is certainly disconcerting. Her story is a revenge ONS that quickly developed an unintended strong emotional component. He seemed to distance himself in Summer of '11, and then starting in '12 she worked hard at ending her obsession. When the '16 opportunity popped up she wanted to meet him, thought it could help with closure, but at the end of the night her flesh won out. There are some facts (texts, etc.) to support this last part - she claims to have planned to meet him for drinks only as she (verifiably) had dinner scheduled with a friend who was to be in town for work. She claims to have set it up this way to protect herself, but then the day before the friend told her the work trip was cancelled (also verified).

* He is still a bachelor. She says she didn't run off with him for a variety of reasons - children, he wouldn't want to settle down, still loves me and wants marriage to work. I did consider it, but I'm not sure even who I would out him to - his baby mama? It seemed spiteful and likely useless.

* DNA testing kits are here and will be sent off this weekend.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

3rdTime said:


> * He is still a bachelor. *She says she didn't run off with him for a variety of reasons* - children, he wouldn't want to settle down, still loves me and wants marriage to work.


But she considered running away with him? Do you think you could trust her to keep her pants on if they had an accidental meeting in the future?

I know you want to R, but 5 years is a long time to be emotionally obsessed with another man to the point where she could not keep him out of her hotel room. He is exciting, forbidden, sexy, satisfying, and willing. You are familiar, financially secure, co-parent, and still there.

It will take her a long time to get over him if she ever does. You said she tried to distance herself in 2012 but as soon as she saw him in person all that was out the window and he was back in her bed. He will always be the exciting one that got away to her.

Can you handle that?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I am hugely skeptical that this marriage is salvageable. The character of you both is weak. She seems to have the added flaw of dishonesty. You admitted everything and she has not. So then, here is what I suggest. Consider the first round a trial run, a dress rehearsal if you will, one that failed miserably. Set a date to be remarried and to take your vows again only this time sit down beforehand and actually discuss what a vow is and whether or not the two of you are capable or even interested in taking them. I suggest that you take this very seriously and that each of you agree that the next time a vow is broken the marriage ends.

It will then be necessary to let the past remain in the past and to focus your energy, that you have been using to "find the truth", on making the marriage stronger, safer and less open to outside influence than before. At least this way the slate can be wiped clean and your marriage (2nd one) will not be built on deceit, dishonesty and subterfuge. Forget the "dry run" and concentrate all of your energy, both of you, on making the marriage work. I wish you good fortune, you will need it.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Wrong post


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

harrybrown said:


> Have her write a timeline and diary of the A and or A's.
> 
> Have her take the polly on her written timeline.
> 
> ...



Like one of the most truthful posts ever in this forum.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ABHale said:


> I truly believe over half the post on this thread would have a different tone if the OP's gender was female.
> 
> A females cheating can always be over looked and in some way blamed on the husband of course.


It doesn't make any difference the gender of the cheater, it still has the same damage. If she cheated on him while dating then it already tells me they either have to accept an open marriage, get into intensive therapy and decide to commit for their own sakes or divorce.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

aine said:


> It doesn't make any difference the gender of the cheater, it still has the same damage. If she cheated on him while dating then it already tells me they either have to accept an open marriage, get into intensive therapy and decide to commit for their own sakes or divorce.


The point is being missed I think. 

He cheated for a year and came clean about it because of guilt. 

She cheated from the start of their relationship and never came clean until she was caught. Then she trickled truth until the poly was scheduled. She never felt guilty enough the confess.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

She's been in love with someone else for many years. I personally look at 'why didn't she leave' as extraneous. She SHOULD have left and saved everyone a lot of trouble and kept ethically consistent


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

*Wanting to know the whole truth?*

Easy Peesy...

You serially cheated on your wife.
Your Wife serially cheated on her husband.

Argue the whys the wheres the whos til the cows come home... Your both are cheaters.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

3rdTime said:


> * Based on my scheduling a polygraph for next Wednesday and insisting on the whole truth or divorce, she also admitted to having sex with each of her prior two boyfriends at some point in the first 6 months we started dating, and kissing, etc. a random guy on a Mexico girls trip a few years later. All of this was well before we were married.


Your whole Marriage is about Cheating on each other.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

By "Vegas-type women" I assume you mean strippers or low quality, easy women who have no qualms banging married men? In that case, I hope the STI testing kits are on their way too. 

OP, your wife wanted out of the marriage after finding out about what you did. This OM was a possible option for her, as many spouses will not leave until they have someone waiting in the wings. 

You're in competition for your marriage. Your wife is shopping and open for business. Until she falls back in love with you, she will continue to seek a better man to spend her life with.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ABHale said:


> And for those that keep brings up his four women.
> 
> She had at the very least 5 guys.


So your point is?

They deserve each other, what's with the investigating?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

eric1 said:


> She's been in love with someone else for many years. I personally look at 'why didn't she leave' as extraneous. She SHOULD have left and saved everyone a lot of trouble and kept ethically consistent


That would have been impossible.....she screwed two ex bfs within the first 6 months of their relationship....long before his dumbass year of sexcapades.

She never had any ethics to begin with......a boat that he is unequivocally sitting in now as well after his stupidity.

But lets not go awarding her the mantle of saintly victim here either.

She is indeed the initial traitor in this fiasco.....BUT he can't excuse his disgusting behavior on that fact.....he didn't know about it at the time.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

aine said:


> So your point is?
> 
> They deserve each other, what's with the investigating?


Just that posters started ripping into him for being honest and up front about his ONS. They took it as him bragging about what he did. 

The other point is he was/is trying to save the marriage. I have to look back but I think his went on for a short span. At the end of it he confessed everything to his wife to save the marriage. She is not doing the same with her affair.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Damn....it amazes me that people can fvck their marriage up this badly. I have no answers here.


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