# The R has taken a turn. Can lesbianism be turned on and off?



## bobsmith

Maybe I missed the signs. My SO and I were together 12yrs, 2 kids, separated now for 3mo. We have been having some good communications about our issues which mostly boils down to our communication or lack there of, my anger, and her lack of vulerability. The 'wall' we call it. 

When we met, it was just a friend with benny deal and I found out shortly after that prior she had a girlfriend. She said she tried it, it was not for her and never orgasmed once in that world and was done with it. I left it at that even though it was a HUGE red flag with my instincts to run like hell, this girl may not have a clue what she wants. 

FF to today, I learn that within the last week she has been spending a LOT of time with a ***** from HS. I contacted to tell her that our oldest son was confused with questions of "why does she look like a boy". I told her she needs to talk to him about things and that I am on to what is happening. 

She indicated she does not owe an explanation but went on to explain that "they are just friends and enjoying being friends" but then states " if it becomes something more...so be it". 

I am not sure if she thinks she can snow me or if she is that clueless. She is ANY ****** dream girl and I have every confidence even though she might be at the friend stage, her new found friend wants to jump her muffin at any second. 

I made it clear that when, not if, that finally turns into a relationship, just let me know because I am pulling the plug with my efforts and moving on. Even though some men might reason with it, if a woman can lay with a bull dike, that means a man may never fully please her because I can't see any real hetero woman saying "yeah, I wanna hook up with that girl with a butch cut and bulging muscles."

Obviously I am a little off about it right now. I am just curious if I serious wasted 12yrs with someone in that once someone goes *****, they will always have that switch? 

Sorry if I sound like an ass. I am irritated at the moment. The new friend is taking my X and our kids out of town for the weekend in her RV. More than anything, I don't want my boys all screwed up over this. My son has been asking all week why I am not going with them and mommy to play for the weekend. that hurts....


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## Faithful Wife

oh dear....


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## Hope1964

Holy moly. That's one screwed up wife you've got there. You should be packing her crap and changing the locks while she's gone. Wow.


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## FrenchFry

:rofl: FW.

Your wife may or may not be bisexual and/or a lesbian. Only she really gets the "say" as to what she is.

Bisexuality, if that is what your wife feels, doesn't preclude monogamy. If she feels like she needs both genders in her life romantically at the same time, you are looking at polyamory issues--not sexuality issues nessecarily. The "switch" for a monogamous bisexual isn't even an issue, it's all about commitment.

You didn't waste 12 years together. You created a child and had a family which may be going though some changes. The love you felt at one time isn't negated by who your wife gets involved with while you are separated or divorce. 

Also, I know you are angry but things like "bull dike" is a little offensive. You don't get to determine things like "what a woman will be satisfied with," as far as it comes to her and her sexuality. If you cannot handle that your wife may be attracted to more than one gender, it's on you. It's a perfectly valid decision, btw, and it's okay to let your wife know that if she chooses to be romantically involved with her friend, you cannot be in a relationship with her in the future.

As far as the separation, it sounds like you need to set some ground rules for interactions with dates and such. You can't really get angry for her doing what she wants to do with the kids if those kind of agreements haven't been arranged.

Separation sucks, I'm sorry.


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## bobsmith

I think the parts that really frustrate right now is only 1-2 weeks ago I got several long emails explaining all the great things about me and I know for sure we have some clicks together that would be hard for anyone to match. I guess when she said "I don't know what I want right now", she really meant it. 

I think what will flip the switch for me is knowing that side of her really is there and I could never sleep next to her knowing that. Too many uncertainties to make a real, committed future together. 

It freaks me out knowing they are going to a water park, bikini, and the ***** will certainly be eyeing her prize. My X might think they are just friends but the ***** will certainly have other motives. 

Hell, I have seen a couple texts from the ***** a while back with "your hot", and the smileys with hearts for eyes. That right there says that my X knows this is more than friendship. 

My kids are going to get down right confused. My oldest went blank when I said "some girls like other girls".


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## PBear

First off... You can't control who your wife spends time with, with or without the kids. So you need to focus on what you can control. 

Reconciliation when your wife is working deeper and deeper into a relationship is a fools game. If I was you, I'd try to focus on getting into some sort of "family counseling" so you all can try to work things out in the least harmful way to the kids. How old are they, anyway?

Finally, your post comes off as borderline homophobic. While I can only imagine your frustration, have you considered any individual counseling for dealing with what's apparently coming down the pipe to you? Not to try to protect your STBX, but to help you and your children. 

Oh, and as far as your original question. I don't see it as a switch to be turned on or off. She likely had attraction all throughout your relationship to other women, if that's what's going on now. She just didn't act on those feelings. After all, even heterosexual woman don't stop noticing other men just because they get married, right?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill

Did you guys agree to an open separation? 

Frankly buddy you did this to yourself by being all nice guy with her and allowing this separation. Now she's got you on the back burner as plan B. 

She's either your wife or your ex wife. Tell her there's no in between. Man up and tell her that. 

Trial separations are just a slow death to marriage. 

If she's your ex wife, you have a say about her using the rv and who goes or doesn't. 

Piss or get off the pot man!


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## U.E. McGill

Your wife's sexuality has nothing to do with this.


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## bobsmith

I don't think I need counseling really, just trying to grasp the moving on part immediately following some level of R. 

As far as the kids, I can work them through it but my concern is damage and confusion if she tries it for a while and goes back to a man. 

I probably need time to digest. The fact that she did not tell me about her new found friend is puzzling though. She knows I am going to bail once I know it is a real relationship so it would be great to just get that confirmation so my brain and heart can both agree. 

Regarding homophobic, I am not the type to tell people "you can't do that" but I can tell you in being around other gays that I am NOT comfortable around them. Call it a phobia I suppose but I do get a say in who I am around. The biggest thing for me is that I know the ***** has real motives here, whether my X really sees it yet or not.


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## Hope1964

Can you please stop saying "the *****"? It makes you sound like a *******.


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## Faithful Wife

bobsmith said:


> Hell, I have seen a couple texts from the ***** a while back with "your hot", and the smileys with hearts for eyes. That right there says that my X knows this is more than friendship.


It also says "the *****" doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're". A point of major concern.


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## Faithful Wife

I'm confused...is she your wife or your X?


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## PBear

Hope1964 said:


> Can you please stop saying "the *****"? It makes you sound like a *******.


This, and other terms, are the reason for my "homophobic" statement. What are you going to do if your wife DOES get into a lesbian relationship? 

Again, I'd recommend stop playing with reconciliation. Call it done, and let your STBX demonstrate that she truly wants it, if she does. But I do think you've got a long ways to go before you're going to be able to be in a healthy co-parenting relationship with a lesbian ex. Thus my suggestion for counseling...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## seeking sanity

One. She is "shopping" around for another relationship - male or female doesn't matter - that's not in the spirit of reconciliation. I'd cut bait fast and hard. Go forward with divorce stuff and tell her straight out that if she wants to check out the field then you are out. 

Don't wait until she actual does it. The hard stance will actually help you.

Two. If she does take up with a woman, be extra prepared to protect your interests. A lesbian couple with a vendetta is an ex-husbands worst nightmare. They will make it their mission to destroy you. Get all the legal stuff sorted out asap. Custody, any child support, etc. Get in front of it. No joke.


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## bobsmith

U.E. McGill said:


> Did you guys agree to an open separation?
> 
> Frankly buddy you did this to yourself by being all nice guy with her and allowing this separation. Now she's got you on the back burner as plan B.
> 
> She's either your wife or your ex wife. Tell her there's no in between. Man up and tell her that.
> 
> Trial separations are just a slow death to marriage.
> 
> If she's your ex wife, you have a say about her using the rv and who goes or doesn't.
> 
> Piss or get off the pot man!



OK, we were together 12yrs, engaged 3, never married, she just moved out. It was not a "trial" but she admitted feelings that came up right after leaving. We have not touched since she moved out. 

I VERY much realize I have no control of the situation and not trying to attain that, I am just trying to understand why our relationship failed and this could be some of it! It is entirely her call on what happens BUT I will make one thing CLEAR, I stated to her that it is certainly her option to get in another relationship but that will end it for me and any hope of fixing our troubles, I will not be used as a backup plan. I know some men will take their Xs back after other flings but I am not one of them. 

I full heartedly agree with her moving so maybe we can objectively figure things out but taking another partner means she no longer wants that. Just wish she would do one or the other.


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## tom67

bobsmith said:


> OK, we were together 12yrs, engaged 3, never married, she just moved out. It was not a "trial" but she admitted feelings that came up right after leaving. We have not touched since she moved out.
> 
> I VERY much realize I have no control of the situation and not trying to attain that, I am just trying to understand why our relationship failed and this could be some of it! It is entirely her call on what happens BUT I will make one thing CLEAR, I stated to her that it is certainly her option to get in another relationship but that will end it for me and any hope of fixing our troubles, I will not be used as a backup plan. I know some men will take their Xs back after other flings but I am not one of them.
> 
> I full heartedly agree with her moving so maybe we can objectively figure things out but taking another partner means she no longer wants that. Just wish she would do one or the other.


I would say make the decision for her and file.
It sounds like she is gone jmo.


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## PBear

Again... Focus on what you CAN control. She is in a relationship with a woman. She's valuing that relationship more than her relationship with you. She's going to continue to play dumb and innocent until it no longer works for her purposes. 

So for you to focus on what you can control, follow through on what you said you'd do. You can always withdraw the papers later, if you need to. But you're in limbo now because YOU allow yourself to be. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964

He said they were never actually married, so he can't file for D, except symbolically


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## GusPolinski

bobsmith said:


> I am not sure if she thinks she can snow me or if she is that clueless. She is ANY ****** dream girl and I have every confidence even though she might be at the friend stage, *her new found friend wants to jump her muffin at any second. *


Sorry, but this made me laugh *hysterically*.




bobsmith said:


> The new friend is taking my X and our kids out of town for the weekend in her RV.


Uhhh...


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## PBear

Hope1964 said:


> He said they were never actually married, so he can't file for D, except symbolically


Fine! Go ahead and introduce facts into a good thread. :-(

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Hope1964 said:


> He said they were never actually married, so he can't file for D, except symbolically


I forgot thank you.


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## Hope1964

He could still serve her with papers though. One that he wrote up himself. Two words is all he needs to write on it. And I don't mean "the *****".


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## tom67

Hope1964 said:


> He could still serve her with papers though. One that he wrote up himself. Two words is all he needs to write on it. And I don't mean "the *****".


As long as they have no problems regarding the kids keep it out of the courts I guess and switch every other year getting to add them as dependents on the tax return.


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## bobsmith

The only thread that has me wondering is she thought it necessary to tell me "we are just friends". To be frank, the girl has never lied to me and one of the things I still love. However, this is jumping into strange land for me. I might let this mello for the weekend and then drop the hammer as "we all done now". Our kids are confused as we went and did a family 5K together only a week ago! I need to get a grip on this new chapter.

No, the courts won;t be involved and she already knows, SERIOUSLY, my brother is actually proposing new child suport laws in our state right now. We KNOW the system and have battled the best attys in the city. She will just lose thousands and neither of us want the court system involved here. We split everything involving the kids, plain and simple. We ALWAYS work flawlessly regarding the kids. I am even watching our dog while she is out with her "new fling"


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## LongWalk

A friend of mine was in a similar situation. His wife had lesbian experiences in high school. The former girlfriend came to visit them as a guest. They cheated under my friend's nose. The wife was an alcoholic and the lesbian girlfriend for the past enabled the drinking. Once my friend discovered they were having sex, the two women carried out international parental child abduction.

The father lost custody. His ex drank herself to death within a couple of years. She went from being an attractive woman to being overweight. Her hair was cut short. She took on a new masculine first name. She died of acute alcohol poisoning (vodka) and lay dead on the kitchen floor with her children in the apartment.

The courts refused to give his children back to him. Finally when they both became adults they ended all contact with the lesbian partner. She only wanted the daughter and drove the son of as soon as he graduated from high school. It took the daughter longer to get free of that woman.

Not all lesbians have an agenda. But if your wife's suitor wants your children to be hers, look out.

If you have any contact with social workers or the family courts, never say or write an anything that could be construed as homophobic or illiberal with regards to sexuality. That may harm your children's interests in any custody dispute.

As to reconciliation, forget it. Read about the 180 and practice it.

Tell your partner that you want her to be happy and so you are letting her go. However, that does not mean you are going to friends, at least not in the short term. Someday, they may be a couple and they may turn out all right. At present you need to detach.

From what you write about your partner, she seems pretty chill. If you have 50/50 custody, just be happy and start a new life.


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## bobsmith

Yes my X and I are both VERY civil regarding the kids. This has nothing to do with them. Neither would seek to try and take them or seek child support. 

This is about our relationship and nothing more. Now, if her new found "person" became a problem with the courts, trust me, she won;t get traction. My X already knows she would bring a rain of fire with that.


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## bobsmith

Well, I sent the email... "we're done. wish you the best". 

I figure she can now decide between her new fling and me. If she does not choose me, at least I know where I rank and I am not about to try any relationship on second best.


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## Hope1964

You told her in an email?!?!?! Wow.

And what's this about HER deciding? Why don't YOU decide? She will just decide to keep you on the string she already has you on if you leave it up to her. You just sent her an email telling her that you're done. In other words you don't mean it. You're full of hot air.


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## bobsmith

What else am I supposed to do? I made no mention of deciding or whatever. I made it clear, new R means I am gone. Should I send a post card? I don't see any need to do that in person.

I only say decide because I technically have no admission from her of any new R. Supposedly this is a friends only thing. She really does not have any good friends so I guess I get that but...

I assure you though, once I get confirmation, I am done.


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## GusPolinski

bobsmith said:


> Well, I sent the email... "we're done. wish you the best".


"Butch" will likely be happy to hear this. After all...










Sorry, but that "muffin" comment still has me *reeling*.


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## bobsmith

LOL. I have a whole gag reel of them but I doubt some here share my sense of humor. Thanks!!! 

I was literally the **** block in this situation....


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## bandit.45

2galsmom said:


> It does not appear as if you love this woman AT ALL.


How do you come to that conclusion? Because he won't let her run roughshod over his heart?


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## PBear

bobsmith said:


> Well, I sent the email... "we're done. wish you the best".
> 
> I figure she can now decide between her new fling and me. If she does not choose me, at least I know where I rank and I am not about to try any relationship on second best.


Any reaction from her?

C


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## bobsmith

"you don't love her at all", that really could be the furthest from the truth I have read all day BUT I am VERY curious as to your perspective on this to say that??? Just curious In my mind, quite the opposite but at the end of the day, my rather educated brain is telling me it is stupid to try to hold on to someone that does not want held. I deserve someone that actually wants to work toward a 'forever' not an 'I'm not sure'.


No, no word back and I honestly don't expect one. I went and got our dog before she got home so I would not have to even talk to her and she is out early morning for her adventure with our kids, their friends, and her new 'girl friend'. I honestly know how bad this will go with our adhd kid, his friends, and no dad to mediate but whatever, she made her bed.


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## LongWalk

Who owns your home?


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## bobsmith

I own the house. She is renting. But, we own a large piece of land together that we were to build on. 

This really has nothing to do with property, money, or kids, just us. I think both of us value our happiness way above all the other crap in life.


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## U.E. McGill

bobsmith said:


> What else am I supposed to do? I made no mention of deciding or whatever. I made it clear, new R means I am gone. Should I send a post card? I don't see any need to do that in person.
> 
> I only say decide because I technically have no admission from her of any new R. Supposedly this is a friends only thing. She really does not have any good friends so I guess I get that but...
> 
> I assure you though, once I get confirmation, I am done.



Better to stand up for yourself and be a prîck than do nothing and be a door mat. 

Sometimes we do things ugly, but it's better than nothing. 

Your other post is spot on. No person should ever wait around for someone else. Your either all in or not. Go find a woman who digs you.


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## LongWalk

Time to sell the land and end all your financial entanglements.

If splitting your assets shocks her into putting your relationship first, okay, but that looks unlikely.

180 and detach.

Do not talk to her about anything but your child. Keep your conversations civil, short and business like


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## NotLikeYou

bobsmith- Wow. You have one crazy situation.

I would like to start this response by listing some things you are doing right.

You done good by not marrying this person. You did good by telling her you were done with things. You did really good by telling her that the kids didn't understand what was going on and that she needed to talk to them. You did good by owning your own home and not letting her have any legal claim on it.

I have to think that overall you're ahead in the game. Given that the game is "guys who have long-term-relationships with latent homosexual women," that's not a very common game, but still, I think you're doing good.

I don't know what will happen, but you should prepare for the worst- the mother of your children will come wandering back and want back in, probably because you have a house and are responsible and because you'll let her back in.

To me, that's the worst thing that can happen- you take her back. So figure out what you are going to do if life hands you that awful choice.

In the mean time, I hope you will focus on YOU, and do things that make you more fun, successful, and AWESOME.

People say that the best revenge is living well. This is one of those rare cases where the people are right. Live a better life without her than you lived with her!


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## bobsmith

I figure since several people have chimed in, I might try to better explain 'us'. 

Obviously I know her best. She is actually genuinely a good person and does not intend for this all to go tits up. She is as honest as they come, works like a slave, and is a good mother. Her mom was married 4x, dad 3x, prob no relatives that have not been married several times. One of the step dads was verbally abusive, her mother sucked as a mother, and in general she has deep scars from a lack of love as a child. No one hugged her goodnight. She has built up a wall as a defense that is SERIOUS. The only time I can see over it is when she has an emergency and needs help, or she is sick. 

She does not realize that this wall she has causes me to block as well. After being together years, she did start talking commitment and though I could see these issues, I resolved that marriage might calm her commitment concerns and things can grow. I proposed. 3yrs later, she just stops wearing the ring!!! No talks, no discussions, just stops wearing it. 

I tend to wonder if what she wanted was to 'be married' not engage a lifetime partnership. Because of her past and lack of church, I don't think she has a clue what vows are supposed to mean. 

Because I know her, if she tells me she is not technically in an R with a girl, I do believe that but it sounds leading and she has put forth ZERO effort in fixing us and I just told her it just will never work as a one sided relationship. 

here is part of the email

"
I don't owe you an explanation, but I do want you to understand that for now, xxxxx is a friend from hs that I'm really having fun with. If that goes further. . So be it. But for now (son) will experience his mom having a fun girl... friend. . 
"

Make no mistake, I am not going to cave but I also doubt she will see the light before it is too late and I do think she will live with regrets the rest of her life. All she has to do is put forth effort in figuring things out.


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## U.E. McGill

bobsmith said:


> I figure since several people have chimed in, I might try to better explain 'us'.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously I know her best. She is actually genuinely a good person and does not intend for this all to go tits up. She is as honest as they come, works like a slave, and is a good mother. Her mom was married 4x, dad 3x, prob no relatives that have not been married several times. One of the step dads was verbally abusive, her mother sucked as a mother, and in general she has deep scars from a lack of love as a child. No one hugged her goodnight. She has built up a wall as a defense that is SERIOUS. The only time I can see over it is when she has an emergency and needs help, or she is sick.
> 
> 
> 
> She does not realize that this wall she has causes me to block as well. After being together years, she did start talking commitment and though I could see these issues, I resolved that marriage might calm her commitment concerns and things can grow. I proposed. 3yrs later, she just stops wearing the ring!!! No talks, no discussions, just stops wearing it.
> 
> 
> 
> I tend to wonder if what she wanted was to 'be married' not engage a lifetime partnership. Because of her past and lack of church, I don't think she has a clue what vows are supposed to mean.
> 
> 
> 
> Because I know her, if she tells me she is not technically in an R with a girl, I do believe that but it sounds leading and she has put forth ZERO effort in fixing us and I just told her it just will never work as a one sided relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> here is part of the email
> 
> 
> 
> "
> 
> I don't owe you an explanation, but I do want you to understand that for now, xxxxx is a friend from hs that I'm really having fun with. If that goes further. . So be it. But for now (son) will experience his mom having a fun girl... friend. .
> 
> "
> 
> 
> 
> Make no mistake, I am not going to cave but I also doubt she will see the light before it is too late and I do think she will live with regrets the rest of her life. All she has to do is put forth effort in figuring things out.



So here's the rub. This post is very telling..... About you. 

You've got some serious white night syndrome going on. Read the book "no more mr nice guy" and see how much resonates with you. 

See the thing about being a nice guy is we put broken women on a pedestal. We engage in relationships with broken women because WE ARE BROKEN. 

Her words are telling but her actions even more so. She says if it goes that way so be it. Then puts here self in a situation of what is essentially an all weekend date. 

Learn to judge people by the sum of their actions. I always cringe when I hear "she's a great mom, but I caught her sneaking over to bang the neighbor and do crank". 

As nice guys we look to see that one glimmer of hope, where as if we were integrated males we'd go "next!" 

Everyone can grow. Even your children's mother could resolve her demons. You are never gonna fix her. Fix yourself first. Otherwise your doomed to repeat this disaster.


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## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

Bob, you sound homophobic. 

"Can lesbianism be turned on and off?" No.


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## GusPolinski

Lesbianism? I'd say no, but many people are much more sexually "fluid" than that.

Either way, who cares? Cut off any contact that doesn't have anything to do with the kids and move on with your life. She appears to have already done so.


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## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

LongWalk said:


> A friend of mine was in a similar situation. His wife had lesbian experiences in high school. The former girlfriend came to visit them as a guest. They cheated under my friend's nose. The wife was an alcoholic and the lesbian girlfriend for the past enabled the drinking. Once my friend discovered they were having sex, the two women carried out international parental child abduction.
> 
> The father lost custody. His ex drank herself to death within a couple of years. She went from being an attractive woman to being overweight. Her hair was cut short. She took on a new masculine first name. She died of acute alcohol poisoning (vodka) and lay dead on the kitchen floor with her children in the apartment.
> 
> The courts refused to give his children back to him. Finally when they both became adults they ended all contact with the lesbian partner. She only wanted the daughter and drove the son of as soon as he graduated from high school. It took the daughter longer to get free of that woman.
> 
> *Not all lesbians have an agenda. But if your wife's suitor wants your children to be hers, look out.*
> 
> If you have any contact with social workers or the family courts, never say or write an anything that could be construed as homophobic or illiberal with regards to sexuality. That may harm your children's interests in any custody dispute.
> 
> As to reconciliation, forget it. Read about the 180 and practice it.
> 
> Tell your partner that you want her to be happy and so you are letting her go. However, that does not mean you are going to friends, at least not in the short term. Someday, they may be a couple and they may turn out all right. At present you need to detach.
> 
> From what you write about your partner, she seems pretty chill. If you have 50/50 custody, just be happy and start a new life.


...And here we have yet another homophobe. I'm actually suprised this kind of slander goes on this forum without the moderators doing anything. If you'd change the "lesbian" with like "black people," you'd get banned in no time.


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## GusPolinski

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> ...And here we have yet another homophobe. I'm actually suprised this kind of slander goes on this forum without the moderators doing anything. If you'd change the "lesbian" with like "black people," you'd get banned in no time.


Not reading that at all. It is possible to use words like "lesbian", "black", "Mexican", or whatever without being a bigot.

Seriously, there is waaaaaaaaaay too much hypersensitivity on this subject in the world today.


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## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

GusPolinski said:


> Not reading that at all. It is possible to use words like "lesbian", "black", "Mexican", or whatever without being a bigot.
> 
> Seriously, there is waaaaaaaaaay too much hypersensitivity on this subject in the world today.


That's not what I'm saying. If you read the bolded part in its context you should understand. I mean, read the whole sentence not just one word and people might think not all Texans have an agenda that is to take your girl children...


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## GusPolinski

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> That's not what I'm saying. If you read the bolded part in its context you should understand. I mean, read the whole sentence not just one word and people might think not all Texans have an agenda that is to take your girl children...


Hilarious. But you're still wrong.


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## CuddleBug

bobsmith said:


> Maybe I missed the signs. My SO and I were together 12yrs, 2 kids, separated now for 3mo. We have been having some good communications about our issues which mostly boils down to our communication or lack there of, my anger, and her lack of vulerability. The 'wall' we call it.
> 
> When we met, it was just a friend with benny deal and I found out shortly after that prior she had a girlfriend. She said she tried it, it was not for her and never orgasmed once in that world and was done with it. I left it at that even though it was a HUGE red flag with my instincts to run like hell, this girl may not have a clue what she wants.
> 
> FF to today, I learn that within the last week she has been spending a LOT of time with a ***** from HS. I contacted to tell her that our oldest son was confused with questions of "why does she look like a boy". I told her she needs to talk to him about things and that I am on to what is happening.
> 
> She indicated she does not owe an explanation but went on to explain that "they are just friends and enjoying being friends" but then states " if it becomes something more...so be it".
> 
> I am not sure if she thinks she can snow me or if she is that clueless. She is ANY ****** dream girl and I have every confidence even though she might be at the friend stage, her new found friend wants to jump her muffin at any second.
> 
> I made it clear that when, not if, that finally turns into a relationship, just let me know because I am pulling the plug with my efforts and moving on. Even though some men might reason with it, if a woman can lay with a bull dike, that means a man may never fully please her because I can't see any real hetero woman saying "yeah, I wanna hook up with that girl with a butch cut and bulging muscles."
> 
> Obviously I am a little off about it right now. I am just curious if I serious wasted 12yrs with someone in that once someone goes *****, they will always have that switch?
> 
> Sorry if I sound like an ass. I am irritated at the moment. The new friend is taking my X and our kids out of town for the weekend in her RV. More than anything, I don't want my boys all screwed up over this. My son has been asking all week why I am not going with them and mommy to play for the weekend. that hurts....



I feel for you.

Your wifee married you, had two beautiful kids with you and stayed married through the good times and bad for 12 years.

Then it turns out she likes the ladies and leaves you for woman who dresses like a man, so why not stay with you?:scratchhead:

More than likely, your wife liked the ladies from before you got married and she never admitted this to you for obvious reasons at the time.

Now as she is older, in her prime, sexual peak?, she leaves you for another woman.

She doesn't care about how it will mess up your beautiful kids. It's all about her now and what makes her happy.

When a man dresses as a woman, something is off. When a woman dresses as a man, something is off.

We all have moral free will and choices in life. It's whether we act on them or not that defines us.

There is nothing stopping me from going out, lying to my wifee, hooking up with some hottie or hotties (3 some) for a sex only relationship. But I chose not to do so because I married Mrs.CuddleBug, through good times and bad.

Is this primarily genetic? No. It's moral free will and choices I've made and what I believe.

Your wifee is completely in the wrong to what she has done to you, your kids and marriage.

If people don't agree with gay is okay, there are labelled as homophobic among other nasty names. You must go along with homosexuality and there is no other choice. But there is choice. People can peacefully disagree with it and move on. It sounds like the minority are acting like the majority and everyone must support them or you are a bigot, homophobic, and a terrible person. I thought we lived in a free democratic country. I guess I was wrong.....and I've worked with gays and lesbians and got along just fine.

If being gay was primarily genetic, not choices we've made, then two men and women have sex and have children (their genes merge and get passed on). But that is not how we are made, male and female to reproduce and nothing else works. Otherwise, we'd be asexual human beings. If a gay couple adopts, again, genes not passed on.

I remember chatting in another forum with an educated gay man. He did the research and even said, being gay is not primarily genetic, only partial at best and the other half or more are choices we make, what we believe, moral free will, what we are taught, what we think is acceptable, what is socially pushed, and other things we don't fully understand yet or may never understand.

Blaming genetics on the way we live our lives is an excuse for the behaviors we do.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

GusPolinski said:


> Hilarious. But you're still wrong.


Explain yourself or be quiet.


----------



## johny1989

Ohh man.. you said she is taking my X and our kids out of town for the weekend.. you said X.. if she is your ex then why you feel bad..?? I think you still have some attachment with you ex wife, so I think you should have to talk with her.. but first you decide what you have to do and why you feel hurt??


----------



## LongWalk

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut,

Some men seek relationships with women with children because they are attracted to them sexually. They manipulate the mother emotionally so that they can gain the opportunity to abuse the children. In some cases they want them at particular stage of development. Some go after boys, some after girls. Some both.
There are lesbian women who are are also pedophiles. 

Also, having a family produces status. People are proud of having children. Since same sex procreation is complicated, acquiring a partner with existing children is sometimes a goal in mating strategy.

Often for men the discussion is does one want to date a single mom. With step parenting comes costs and responsibilities.

Being friendly on TAM costs nothing but a bit of ego. You can judge me to be a bigot but I am not hostile towards you. I hope we can be friends and discuss without anger. Even those with peanut brains can be good people.


----------



## GusPolinski

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> Explain yourself or be quiet.


No y no.


----------



## Openminded

The two of you never married. She moved on. Presumably you thought she would come back but apparently she isn't. So it doesn't matter who she may have moved on with. To answer your question -- she could very well have tried to suppress that side of her and it didn't work. It's her life. Let her go.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

LongWalk said:


> MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut,
> 
> Some men seek relationships with women with children because they are attracted to them sexually. They manipulate the mother emotionally so that they can gain the opportunity to abuse the children. In some cases they want them at particular stage of development. Some go after boys, some after girls. Some both.
> There are lesbian women who are are also pedophiles.
> 
> Also, having a family produces status. People are proud of having children. Since same sex procreation is complicated, acquiring a partner with existing children is sometimes a goal in mating strategy.
> 
> Often for men the discussion is does one want to date a single mom. With step parenting comes costs and responsibilities.
> 
> Being friendly on TAM costs nothing but a bit of ego. You can judge me to be a bigot but I am not hostile towards you. I hope we can be friends and discuss without anger. Even those with peanut brains can be good people.


Well, this is quite homophobic. Perhaps, because of your ego you confused me calling you out on this as hostility and anger, which is not the case at all. A couple of your posts have clear undertones implying that many homosexual women are pedophiles with a motive. I don't see you stating this about heterosexual men and women. If you think homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia you are, simply put, wrong.


----------



## bobsmith

YES, I fully admit that I am a homophobe! It does not mean that I hate them all, I just am not comfortable around them and chose not to be around them. I don't understand how people confuse a natural right to freedom of choice. Not like I am standing in their driveway saying "be straight!"

However, when my kids are involved I DO care! I woman dressing like a man will confuse any hetero child and now I get to try and help explain this disaster. 

What most confuses me is not more than 3 weeks ago, I got this, "### I want a happy life w u and my boys on OUr land!!!"

So one would believe we might be able to work through our issues and figure things out. She calls me bipolar but, uhh, I dunno....

Never the less, I have said my peace with her. Probably a 90% chance she won't say another word because that is how she is. Too afraid to talk about anything, which has been a core issue from the start. 

Yes, I agree, the word abuse strongly comes to mind. She keeps pointing the finger at ME, but for the past 9 yrs I have done what I can to build a life for US, TOGETHER. I cannot say the same about her. 

I am the type of guy that wants to build the boat TOGETHER so we both can sail with pride. She wants me to build it so she can just hop in. Any talks we have in the future will NOT be as pleasant. She dun drew a line in the sand. The fact that I called the game and she has not made ANY contact since Fri tells me what I need to know. I was stuck with someone that can't have a real relationship. Gayness might just work for her. All the ones I know swap back and forth all the time and never get along. Too much of something I think!!! :rofl:


----------



## PBear

You have a right to chose who you hang out with. You will NOT have a right to chose who your ex hangs out with, so long as they're not considered harmful to your children. And as much as it might tick you off, homosexuality is not considered harmful to your children.

My advice... NEVER put anything in writing or say anything to your ex or your children that might be construed as homophobic. This includes phrases like "butch", "****", "*****"... Unless, of course, you don't want to spend time with your kids and enjoy paying higher child support based on that...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bobsmith

Thanks but I know our laws well and if anything, she will be paying me child support. She has little to no chance of taking the kids from me. Me being homophobic is not a legal reason for custody. I am not required to embrace her lifestyle. 

She already knows how up to speed I am on custody issues. Enough so that she probably will avoid the courts at every opportunity. 

My only goal is to get my boys back into our church asap and let the bible teach them a few things. I won't say I support everything in the bible but I think I have very valid concerns. I really could care less what any professional says. Impressional kids seeing girls kissing girls will confuse them a bit.


----------



## GusPolinski

LongWalk said:


> MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut,
> 
> Some men seek relationships with women with children because they are attracted to them sexually. They manipulate the mother emotionally so that they can gain the opportunity to abuse the children. In some cases they want them at particular stage of development. Some go after boys, some after girls. Some both.
> There are lesbian women who are are also pedophiles.
> 
> Also, having a family produces status. People are proud of having children. Since same sex procreation is complicated, acquiring a partner with existing children is sometimes a goal in mating strategy.
> 
> Often for men the discussion is does one want to date a single mom. With step parenting comes costs and responsibilities.
> 
> Being friendly on TAM costs nothing but a bit of ego. You can judge me to be a bigot but I am not hostile towards you. I hope we can be friends and discuss without anger. Even those with peanut brains can be good people.





MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> Well, this is quite homophobic. Perhaps, because of your ego you confused me calling you out on this as hostility and anger, which is not the case at all. A couple of your posts have clear undertones implying that many homosexual women are pedophiles with a motive. I don't see you stating this about heterosexual men and women. If you think homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia you are, simply put, wrong.


LongWalk, let's cut to the quick here...

What percentage of gay men and/or gay women would you say engage in relationships in order to gain "easy access" to children for the purposes of engaging in pedophilia?


----------



## LongWalk

> What percentage of gay men and/or gay women would you say engage in relationships in order to gain "easy access" to children for the purposes of engaging in pedophilia?


I doubt there are any statistics on this. Any researcher who took up this subject would be risking their career. 

Originally Posted by MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut 


> Well, this is quite homophobic. Perhaps, because of your ego you confused me calling you out on this as hostility and anger, which is not the case at all. A couple of your posts have clear undertones implying that many homosexual women are pedophiles with a motive. *I don't see you stating this about heterosexual men and women*. If you think homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia you are, simply put, wrong.


MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut did not see any statement about heterosexual pedophiles because she did not read carefully. You can go back and read my original post. But here is the relevant passage.



> *Some men* seek relationships with women with children because they are attracted to them sexually. They manipulate the mother emotionally so that they can gain the opportunity to abuse the children. In some cases they want them at particular stage of development. Some go after boys, some after girls. Some both.
> *There are lesbian women who are are also pedophiles*.


No where do I claim numbers on pedophilia among gays. I am not an expert but I suspect that women are generally less aggressive than men in criminal behavior.

Did you read about the Cinderalla effect?

Here is an article about child abuse and step parents. The journalist is a Christian but I got the impression that she was making an honest attempt to present the facts.



> More Statistics on Child Abuse, Or, Why Single Moms Should Probably Stay That Way
> by Jenny Rae Armstrong on April 27, 2012 in abuse, everyday life, gender, violence
> (I know, I know–another inflammatory title. But if you’re not feeling a bit inflamed by the end of this post, I don’t know what’s wrong with you.)
> 
> Wading through statistics makes me cranky. My inner journalist, latent as she may be, pitches a fit when she hears people making making vague allusions to “research,” or when numbers are spun to crown “heroes” and hang “villains.” Prepping for this message about how cohabitation hurts women and children has practically sent my Lois Lane gene through the roof. Few people are neutral when it comes to child abuse and their living arrangements (happily so), and I am not comfortable using a handful of strategically-chosen, sloppily-cited statistics from organizations that I know have an agenda–even if I happen to agree with their agenda.
> 
> So I have been on a little bit of a vendetta to “get the scoop” on how children are impacted by their living situation. And it hasn’t been easy. Privacy laws complicate matters enormously, and many numbers have to be cobbled together from a variety of sources. After the statistic I ran across yesterday about mothers being the most likely physical abuser of their young children, I was downright infuriated. It was a hardcore “Yes, but” sort of statistic. I had to get to the bottom of it.
> 
> Finally, FINALLY, I tracked down a page that provided good statistical information, culled from the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System. Now, this page is still tricky to decipher–if you don’t read it closely, you can REALLY get the wrong idea. But what I loved about it is that it provides statistics based on substantiated or indicted child maltreatment cases. Because of that the numbers are going to skew low–a lot of abuse is never reported–but it does show the breakdown of who is being charged with what types of child abuse in the USA.
> 
> It is also crucial to understand that these numbers are based on TOTAL CASES, so while it can tell you, say, that more children are abused by their biological mother then are abused by a mother’s unrelated boyfriend (because most children live with their mothers, while relatively few live with a mother’s unrelated boyfriend), you’d have to whip out a calculator to figure out how likely a child living with his or her biological mother and her unrelated boyfriend is to be abused by said boyfriend. (Did that make any sense at all?) This also accounts for why mothers are statistically most likely to be involved child maltreatment.
> 
> Here’s the basic breakdown:
> 
> -Of all the perpetrators of child maltreatment, 54% were female, and 46% were male.
> 
> Abuse by women:
> 
> -Among female perpetrators, 86% were the child’s biological mother, 10% were non-parents, and 4% were in some sort of parental role (step-mom, dad’s girlfriend, etc.)
> 
> -Among female perpetrators, 66% had been charged with neglect only, 18% had been charged with physical abuse only, 4% had been charged with emotional abuse only, 2% had been charged with sexual abuse only, and 11% had been charged with some combination of the above.
> 
> Abuse by men:
> 
> -Among male perpetrators, 51% were biological fathers, and 26% were non-parents (12% male relatives, 13% non-relatives, and 1% some ambiguous combination of both). 10% were mother’s boyfriends, 8% were stepfathers, 5% were combination fathers, and 1% were adoptive fathers.
> 
> -Among male perpetrators, 36% had been charged with neglect only, 26% had been charged with sexual abuse only, 22% had been charged with physical abuse only, 5% had been charged with emotional abuse only, and 11% had been charged with some combination of the above.
> 
> Type of abuse by relationship
> 
> Here is where I am going to pick on the men. Because I am speaking specifically about cohabitation this week, and because only about 2% of child abuse cases involve “evil stepmother” sorts, the ladies are off the hook (for now). Step-fathers and adoptive fathers, on the other hand, are not–I couldn’t leave them out in good conscience, after what I read. I am not including statistics about men who are not in parental roles.
> 
> PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, again, that these numbers are based on PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH CHILD ABUSE. So when I say, for instance, that 26% of biological fathers who are perpetrators have been charged with physical abuse, it DOES NOT mean that 26% of men physically abuse their biological children. It means that out of all reported child abuse cases that have been substantiated and/or indicted involving biological fathers, 26% of them were for physical abuse.
> 
> Biological fathers who were perpetrators: 50% were charged with neglect only, 26% were charged with physical abuse only, 7% were charged with emotional abuse only, 7% were charged with sexual abuse only, and 11% were charged with some combination of the above.
> 
> Mother’s boyfriends who were perpetrators: 31% were charged with neglect only. 30% were charged with physical abuse only. 20% were charged with sexual abuse only. 6% were charged with emotional abuse only. And 13% were charged with some combination of the above.
> 
> Stepfathers who were perpetrators: 34% were charged with physical abuse only. 30% were charged with sexual abuse only. 20% were charged with neglect only. 4% were charged with emotional abuse only. And 12% were charged with some combination of the above.
> 
> Combination fathers who were perpetrators: 56% were charged with neglect only, 8% were charged with physical abuse only, 7% were charged with sexual abuse only, 3% were charged with emotional abuse only, and 25% were charged with some combination of the above.
> 
> Adoptive fathers who were perpetrators: 33% were charged with physical abuse only, 24% were charged with sexual abuse only, 23% were charged with neglect only, 3% were charged with emotional abuse only, and 17% were charged with some combination of the above.
> 
> There’s a lot of information to chew on here, but this has already been a stinkin’ long blog post (if you could call it that at all–it’s more like a massive disclaimer and explanation of the statistics I will be using in my message this Sunday), so I’ll end it here. Chew away, and feel free to leave your thoughts in the comments.


- See more at: More Statistics on Child Abuse, Or, Why Single Moms Should Probably Stay That Way | Jenny Rae Armstrong


----------



## treyvion

2galsmom said:


> Her sexuality is irrelevant.
> 
> Should he be pressured to stay with her to open his mind and support her BECAUSE she is a lesbian?
> 
> She is not even here to tell us what her true orientation is anyway.
> 
> If you have a spouse/SO and they spend more time with another person and are open to a long term relationship with a person other than you then they are not into you, they are not giving you what you need.
> 
> END OF STORY.
> 
> I read his alleged homophobia as a misguided optimism that she is going to "snap out of this" and come back to him and make a traditional family not a hatred or fear of lesbians.


It is kinda "logical" to conclude over time they shifted into that direction that they can perhaps "wake up" and remember they are straight.

In reality it doesn't work like that and I wouldn't be one to wait around.

Just look at the actual results of real world situations and how they play out and don't try to out think these things.


----------



## LongWalk

Here is much more comprehensive paper that clearly shows that the presence of a step father dramatically increases sexually molestation of children. 

A few passages:


> Step- and single-parent families accounted for only one-third (33%) of all children in the
> United States but accounted for more than two-thirds (66.8%) of all children who were sexually abused. The over-representation of ‘broken’ families implies that if all children in the United States lived with both married biological parents, the rate of child sexual abuse could be halved at least.





> The founding study that identified this problem was Diane Russell’s 1984 random survey of 930 adult women in San Francisco. This study found that:
> … 17% or one of approximately every six women who had
> a stepfather as a principal figure in her childhood years, was sexually abused by him. The comparable figures for biological fathers were 2% or one out of approximately 40 women.12
> Subsequent scholarship has confirmed elevated levels of stepfather/stepchild sexual abuse.
> 
> As Jeffrey Rosenberg and W. Bradford Wilcox observed in a 2006 report on family structure and child development for the United States Children’s Bureau:
> A 1997 study of more than 600 families in upstate New York found that children living with stepfathers were more than three times more likely to be sexually abused than children living in intact families. Another study found that the presence of a stepfather doubles the risk of sexual abuse for girls—either from the stepfather or another male figure.13
> 
> Some studies have even suggested that the rate of sexual abuse of girls by 'stepfathers’ could be *40 times higher*.14
> 
> Based on her 2000 review of the ‘overwhelming empirical evidence,’ the American legal academic Robin F. Wilson identified ‘more than seventy social studies’ that
> established the link between child sexual abuse and family breakdown:
> Virtually all studies of child sexual abuse report that girls living with stepfathers are at high risk, leading one sociologist to conclude that the presence of a stepfather is ‘[t]he family feature whose risk has been most dramatically demonstrated.’ This dim appraisal reflects an emerging consensus that disagrees about details but not essentials …
> [T]he evidence is legion that stepfathers represent a greater portion of abusers than their incidence in the general population, suggesting they are more likely to abuse their daughters than biological fathers.15


How are lesbian step moms different from step dads?

I have no stats but it would worry me to have any stranger coming into my children's lives.


----------



## GusPolinski

LongWalk, my purpose for asking the question was to elicit a response along the lines of...

"I have no idea. Seriously, who would? If you're asking me if I think that the majority of homosexuals are in fact pedophiles and therefore engage in relationships w/ people who have children in order to gain access to the kids then that's just stupid, my answer is no, how dare you insinuate that..." and so on, and so forth, etc.

...at which point I would say, "See MRA? Told you so."

Or you would answer more along the lines of...

"Don't know for sure but I'd say at least most of them. They're all just creepy and freak me out. Surely they're all a bunch of pedos."

...in which case I'd wind up apologizing to MRA.

Seems like your response is more in line w/ the former.

Honestly, I'd expect for any parent to maintain a healthy level of caution, suspicion, or whatever-you-want-to-call-it w/ respect to an ex's new paramour, especially if they're taking off for the weekend in an RV.

Sorry, but that does come off as a bit creepy to me. I dunno, maybe I've seen too much of "The Walking Dead" or have watched "From Dusk Till Dawn" one time too many.


----------



## LongWalk

Thanks, Gus.

I feel that was an info bomb. But the facts are clear biological parents are better, not always but overall the statistics show that Cinderella and Hansel and Gretel are profound stories.

How odd that we can read to our children about a step mother who wants the children to perish in the woods? Aren't we directly reassuring out children that we are not going to abandon them? Turn them over to other people.

The witch in Hansel and Gretel is might have been a lesbian but couldn't get out of the oven.

If one of my daughters said she were gay, nothing would change, I'd love her just the same. I wouldn't even be disappointed because I have great kids.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

In post #25 LongWalk stated:


LongWalk said:


> Not *all *lesbians have an agenda. But if your wife's suitor wants your children to be hers, *look out*.


This post shows clear homophobia insinuating not all, but most lesbians have an agenda and to look out for your children because of that.

Then, only after being called out she tries to backpedal a little by talking about male pedohiles in post #55, but again showing her homophobia at the end of the post:


LongWalk said:


> Since same sex procreation is complicated, acquiring a partner with existing children is sometimes a goal in mating strategy.


LongWalk, perhaps you can show us some statistics about how big a percentage of pedophiles are males compared to females. Let's put things in context here.

PS. and who the heck marries/mates someone because of their children. That's like the worst motive ever.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

LongWalk said:


> MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut did not see any statement about heterosexual pedophiles because she did not read carefully. You can go back and read my original post. But here is the relevant passage.


I have to tackle this one too since you are seriously twisting facts here. You made that second statement in post #55 *after *mine, post #47. I don't have a skill to read the *future*, not yet made posts nor answer them in advance. I take it to mean though, that you warn about heterosexual pedophiles in every CWI thread you post in?


----------



## LongWalk

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut,

I think my posts offer statistics. Step fathers represent a very real potential threat. Any divorced/single parent should carefully consider their partners attitude towards their children. At one time it would have been outrageous to suspect Catholic priests or Boy Scout leaders of being sexual predators with an interest in children. History has shown this to be naive. I don't think that you are naive.

Men's rights activists who have small peanut suggests that some MRA are of low intelligence. Furthermore, when you meet them on TAM and they say something unPC, they become your lawful prey. You either want to best them in debate, which is fine, or you want them react inappropriately and earn a ban. If it is debate that you seek, then I will take the trouble to explain myself again.

My read of the gender nature versus nurture controversy: Men are more violent and criminal than women. The statistics show that clearly. Jerry Sandusky at Penn State is an example of pedophile who used the facade of a respectable organization to molest boys. He was interested in boys. He could not have used his position to get girls nearly as easily.

Predators will naturally seek a context that will give them access to children with a legitimate cover. Step parent is one of the best.

What percentage of gay men and lesbian women are pedophiles? I don't think there are a statistics to answer that question. In the Catholic Magdalena Asylums, which treated fallen women as slaves to make money laundering clothes, there were predatory lesbians among the nuns.

One of the debates in the Catholic church concerns the ordination of married men. That would, say some, increase the number of priests and reduce the need to accept closeted homosexuals. I am an atheist, so the theological debate about the word of God coming through men is laughable. From a purely pragmatic angle I suppose the Catholic church might gain by making this move. They have certainly lost adherents by protecting pedophiles. I don't have stats on the sexual orientation of the priests, but probably many were gay.

An observation of facts does not make one a homophobe.

I stand the kernel of my argument for caution concerning same sex partners as step parents. Whether or not they are pedophiles, gaining a role as a parent may be a motivating factor in their desire for a relationship. You maintain that it is bad reason, but that does not invalidate the observation.

By the way you labelled me a woman, although my profile states otherwise. I admit that I assumed you are a woman, but if I am mistaken, I apologize. 

Peace

LW


----------



## happy as a clam

Peanut,

Please quit threadjacking. I am blowing past all of your comments to try and get *back to the topic.* Start a new thread over in the Politics and Religion forum if you really want to express your views on homosexuality.

2 cents tossed in to the mix...


----------



## U.E. McGill

happy as a clam said:


> Peanut,
> 
> 
> 
> Please quit threadjacking. I am blowing past all of your comments to try and get *back to the topic.* Start a new thread over in the Politics and Religion forum if you really want to express your views on homosexuality.
> 
> 
> 
> 2 cents tossed in to the mix...



Excellent post. Too much dilution and not enough topic. 

He has a cake eater wife and he needs to stop enabling. Enough said.


----------



## LongWalk

One bit of standard TAM advice is that WS should not introduce children to SO until the relationship is solid. The WS should not suddenly cohabitat with a person who suddenly leaves.

When a couple fall in love they may have unrealistic expectations about the prospects of success in an LTR.


----------



## lone and cautious

U.E. McGill said:


> So here's the rub. This post is very telling..... About you.
> 
> You've got some serious white night syndrome going on. Read the book "no more mr nice guy" and see how much resonates with you.
> 
> See the thing about being a nice guy is we put broken women on a pedestal. We engage in relationships with broken women because WE ARE BROKEN.
> 
> Her words are telling but her actions even more so. She says if it goes that way so be it. Then puts here self in a situation of what is essentially an all weekend date.
> 
> Learn to judge people by the sum of their actions. I always cringe when I hear "she's a great mom, but I caught her sneaking over to bang the neighbor and do crank".
> 
> As nice guys we look to see that one glimmer of hope, where as if we were integrated males we'd go "next!"
> 
> Everyone can grow. Even your children's mother could resolve her demons. You are never gonna fix her. Fix yourself first. Otherwise your doomed to repeat this disaster.


I am very much a white night person and it's gotten me nothing but grief for my entire relationship history. I won't be a white knight ever again.


----------



## PBear

LongWalk said:


> One bit of standard TAM advice is that WS should not introduce children to SO until the relationship is solid. The WS should not suddenly cohabitat with a person who suddenly leaves.
> 
> When a couple fall in love they may have unrealistic expectations about the prospects of success in an LTR.


There's a big difference between what people should do, what they do, and what we can force someone else to do. 

Unfortunately. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF

OP, I only read the first post.

Her actions are clearly telling you it's over and validate even more that you probably don't want to be with a person like that.

Divorce time. Just collect as much evidence as possible about her play time etc before you do so.


----------



## CuddleBug

I am a God fearing man but I am not **** phobic in the least. I've worked with practicing gay and lesbians and got along just fine. My experiences in life have been the non believers who say horrible things about those who practice **** sexuality. Just horrible and terrible things.

Example. The owner of the shop has a practicing gay step son. This young man sometimes comes to the shop and does cleanup. Everyone knows he is a gay man. Behind his back everyone says really terrible things about him including the owner. I was the only one to treat him as I would myself. He lost his iPod in the shop. The guys said, he's gay so throw it in the garbage, but I took his iPod to the front desk so he could claim it later on.

I don't agree with homosexuality but I still treat those who practice homosexuality just as I would myself. Isn't that what we're supposed to do?

You can peacefully disagree with something and not support it. There is nothing wrong with that. And when some say its genetic and I have no choice, they are just making excuses for the lifestyle and choices they're making in life. Do I make excuses for my choices, blame my parents, some traumatic event in my youth, genetics, etc., no. We all have moral free will and everything we do in life, comes down to our choices we make, right or wrong, good or bad, etc.

Cheers.


----------



## tennisstar

Many gay people are gay all their lives, and it is not a choice. I'm a Christian, and I know some religious people don't see it this way, but I have seen many teenagers who already have gay traits. Many have fought their feelings and tried to live a straight life, but they are gay. "Practicing gay" is not accurate. They are gay. 

Sorry, off thread topic...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Bob's wife lied to herself about the desire she felt for women. She lied to Bob by default. She thought that Bob might help her live a straight life. In the end she could not. She probably cheated before separating.

Converting Bob's WW back to being straight or bisexual is not a project worth putting time and energy into. What Bob needs to do is protect his children. What sort of person is OW? Did she chase Bob's WW or visa versa? What is her motivation in seeking an affair with a woman in an LTR who has young children?

Is Bob's wife a conquest? Did she seek this relationship to have a family? What happened to her previous LTRs?


----------



## treyvion

tennisstar said:


> Many gay people are gay all their lives, and it is not a choice. I'm a Christian, and I know some religious people don't see it this way, but I have seen many teenagers who already have gay traits. Many have fought their feelings and tried to live a straight life, but they are gay. "Practicing gay" is not accurate. They are gay.
> 
> Sorry, off thread topic...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with your sentiment.

I also have another opinion in that more people appear to be gay than ever before because more people are expiramenting with it, because it is so heavily marketed in the media.


----------



## CuddleBug

Being gay is not primarily genetic. Genes never merge and get passed on. Same with adoption, not of their genes.

That's why I think some men are more feminine due to how they were raised, what they were exposed to and maybe partially genetic, more feminine. Same goes for some ladies who are more masculine to how they might of been raised, what they were exposed to and maybe partially genetic, more masculine.

Does that make them go out and must have gay sex? no.

No one is forcing them to do so, just like no one is forcing me to go out and have sex with another guy or woman.

Human beings are complex. We have moral free will. The choices we make chain react and that leads to other similar choices. If you do something enough times, it becomes 2nd nature to you and therefore must be genetic. no.

Maybe all humanity is capable of having same sex given the right circumstance for that individual? Maybe most don't act on it were as some do?

But saying its mainly genetic? No way because the gay genes would never merge, have kids and get passed on to the next generation from the very first time humanity was on the scene.

Now if we were asexual beings, different story then.

The more society pushes gay this and that, the more it will become mainstream.

Just because you desire something, doesn't mean you go out and do it.

If I did whatever I desired......wow, single and no more Mrs.CuddleBug. Must be genetic for me.....


----------



## clipclop2

So long as there is social pressure to act straight, if there were a genetic component to sexiual orientation there will certainly be offspring.

Even with the great strides gays have made there are always a few wives showing up here after finding out their husbands are gay. And women, gay or not, seem to have a maternal component that supercedes their sexism orientation. You don't have to play straight to get a guy to impregnate you. 

The young men I know who are gay seem very much to be that way from the get go. I really don't very they are gay because of society. It is still way easier to be straight and you can't tell me you think otherwise.

I know fewer young women who are gay. Some seem troubled but there are too many possible reasons to know of there is a chicken or egg thing going on.

So I heard Sally Ride was gay. Must be all that societal pressures for NASA astronauts to be gay 30 years ago.


----------



## bobsmith

UPDATE: I have called the bluff several times. She does not seem to want to yet admit anything other than "just friends". I have specifically just called her a lesbian. She will not address it. I find it interesting that the boy/girl is specifically not tagging her on FB and my Ex hs not posted a pic or word about it. Almost like she is hiding behind it. 

I honestly sort of want it in the open because it will finally give me a little dignity back that maybe I am NOT such a bad guy that her family thinks I am and this was not my fault. I sort of think she is worries about how all her business clients will then view her. 

All in all, I want closure and specifically requested it. Yes, I straight told her I am done. I mean that with every part of me, but my heart wants to know for sure with confirmation that she went lesbian on me. 

The gist of the explanation I get for leaving is she lost herself in our relationship and her health deteriorated. She has a SERIOUS problem with communication. If I do something that bothers her, she will not say a word. 

She continually says she does not know if there is a future for us, never "we are done". I already told her, I can accept working through our problems apart but when she decides to take another partner, that just means if we get back together, I am the plan B. I ain't gunna do it. I want confirmation. Then I can focus on making her regret it for the rest of her life as I expand my business ventures and build all the things that she wanted, FOR SOMEONE ELSE! 

I am probably evil but I will take great pride in showing her the massive organic garden she always wanted.....lol With social finger extended. 

Because her family is so good at divorce, she really thinks we will still be good friends and I will come visit and chat.... I ain't that guy.

Sort of off subject but what really bugs me is I know she has a nice dildo she uses regular and I know she still likes being with a man. Maybe bisexual I suppose but I am NOT getting into that. I sort of fantasized about another girl in the bedroom but that would be a hot womanly person, NOT a girl dressing and acting like a man.


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## missthelove2013

Hope1964 said:


> Can you please stop saying "the *****"? It makes you sound like a *******.


awe...you fun-governor!!



calling them ****** and the remark about "jumping the muffin"...omg that was funny...I have quite a few female lesbian friends, and they dont really take offense to that, not that I use the word ***** around them LOL

her sexuality is NOT the issue...the issue is her infidelity...just because its muffin on muffin dont make it any less cheating than man/.woman


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## missthelove2013

Hope1964 said:


> He said they were never actually married, so he can't file for D, except symbolically


they arent married
SHE moved out...sounds like a win/win

I would consult an attorney to see what the common law rules are, if you lived together that long, as far as property goes you were married and she is entitled to 1/2, depending on where you live


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## bobsmith

See this is where half my issue in letting this go is. We BOTH have a mutual agreement in life that material things just don't mean crap. I don;t want her stuff and she does not want mine. I know it will never be an issue. 

We parent really well together. She respects my fatherly instincts to protect and guide. I respect her ability to mother and nurture them. We have a child with ADHD and still have to work a lot with school, meds, docs, etc. We do all that stuff seamlessly. 

As far as "common law" I think a LOT of people confuse that. In our state anyway, it does not mean a thing unless the two people will agree that they "were married". There will never be a legal case here over alimony, child support, etc. Has nothing to do with money. 

I guess if we get in a real fit over children matters, we could end up with some legal matters over custody but I know she does not want that. 

The other day I lit her up about her new friend and specifically agreed that she will no longer let the kids be with the new friend without her presence, etc. I think she is back dooring the whole "friend" deal to justify this new person being around the kids so soon. They are "high school classmates". Funny, in 13yrs, I never met her....


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## missthelove2013

bobsmith said:


> UPDATE: I have called the bluff several times. She does not seem to want to yet admit anything other than "just friends". I have specifically just called her a lesbian. She will not address it. I find it interesting that the boy/girl is specifically not tagging her on FB and my Ex hs not posted a pic or word about it. Almost like she is hiding behind it.
> 
> I honestly sort of want it in the open because it will finally give me a little dignity back that maybe I am NOT such a bad guy that her family thinks I am and this was not my fault. I sort of think she is worries about how all her business clients will then view her.
> 
> All in all, I want closure and specifically requested it. Yes, I straight told her I am done. I mean that with every part of me, but my heart wants to know for sure with confirmation that she went lesbian on me.
> 
> The gist of the explanation I get for leaving is she lost herself in our relationship and her health deteriorated. She has a SERIOUS problem with communication. If I do something that bothers her, she will not say a word.
> 
> She continually says she does not know if there is a future for us, never "we are done". I already told her, I can accept working through our problems apart but when she decides to take another partner, that just means if we get back together, I am the plan B. I ain't gunna do it. I want confirmation. Then I can focus on making her regret it for the rest of her life as I expand my business ventures and build all the things that she wanted, FOR SOMEONE ELSE!
> 
> I am probably evil but I will take great pride in showing her the massive organic garden she always wanted.....lol With social finger extended.
> 
> Because her family is so good at divorce, she really thinks we will still be good friends and I will come visit and chat.... I ain't that guy.
> 
> Sort of off subject but what really bugs me is *I know she has a nice dildo she uses regular and I know she still likes being with a man. * Maybe bisexual I suppose but I am NOT getting into that. I sort of fantasized about another girl in the bedroom but that would be a hot womanly person, NOT a girl dressing and acting like a man.


I am going to be labeled a homophobe or whatever for this, but I will say it anyways...and again I preface I have a lot of female gay friends, a few gay male aquaintences

When you see a gay man couple, they BOTH look like men, generally...but when you see a gay female couple, one of them is usually (to use the negative term) "butch"...gay women use this term by the way...Ive debated the attraction women have for other women, especially when you have "lipstick lesbian" and "butch"...i know I sound ignorant but dont know how to put it...butch women truly are attracted to women, physically and sexually...but the feminine "lipstick lesbians" are more attracted to the constant female attention, they are needy and no typical man will ever be attentive enough...the more her partner looks like a man the more attracted the lipstick will be...my friends will say "someone has to be the man in the relationship"...

My friend, lets call her Shurla, is to use HER term, butch...and many of the lipsticks she has dated are now back with men, like it was a phase...and she agrees with me, that they wanted more attention than most typical men would never bestow on her...shurla is now married with adopted kids, her partner is also to use her term, butch


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## bobsmith

What is funny is my ex actually went through a "phase" years before we were together and I found out after the fact. She said it was a phase, she could never orgasm with girls, and that phase was over.....Apparently NOT....

From what I gathered from her, girls liked to just jam their muffins together and my ex likes getting the sausage. I know every time we played, she was always waiting for that thing. Just confusing to me. It might not work out well for her though when she keeps dragging that dildo to bed with her new buddy. I understand most butches don't like that sort of thing but what do I know, I am just a VERY hetero male...


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## bobsmith

Yep, got the confirmation I needed!!!! We all done now!!!!! Her and butch are "friends with bennies". Grosses me out to think about which should help push this whole thing off.


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## U.E. McGill

bobsmith said:


> What is funny is my ex actually went through a "phase" years before we were together and I found out after the fact. She said it was a phase, she could never orgasm with girls, and that phase was over.....Apparently NOT....
> 
> From what I gathered from her, girls liked to just jam their muffins together and my ex likes getting the sausage. I know every time we played, she was always waiting for that thing. Just confusing to me. It might not work out well for her though when she keeps dragging that dildo to bed with her new buddy. I understand most butches don't like that sort of thing but what do I know, I am just a VERY hetero male...



Bob- you have a lot to learn about human sexuality. Particularly how a man engages a woman. Keeping a woman sexually interested starts way before you enter the bedroom. 

Maybe your ex was always in denial and closeted? Maybe not. Plenty of lesbians use dildos. 

I suggest you check your business. She have you the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" speech. 

I don't care if you R. But the way you are trying to blame her sexuality to give you 100% culpability is naive. 

Ask yourself "was I a leader at home? In the bedroom?"

Men don't get the ILYBINILWY speech when they are. Don't repeat history on the next one.


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## LongWalk

Bob,

You find homosexuality abnormal. That is no longer allowed in modern society. That is homophobia. If your ex common law wife determines that you are not accepting her sexuality, she or others will blacken you name. Call you a hater. "Haters just gonna hate," is what they say.

I am an atheist, but reach into your Christian heart and just accept and love her as the mother of your children. Don't worry about how they rub muffins or whatever. That doesn't matter.

Your kids need both parents. Get the 50/50 custody. Heal and start dating again.

OW may or may not be a fit person to be around your kids in a step parent role. What do you know about her? Drinking problems? Does she have a good job? If she turns out to be benevolent or positive, good. If she wants to brag about her family with kids as an achievement, be wary. She seduced a woman in a relationship with the intent of destroying it.

Perhaps your ex was going to come out of the closet anyways. But cheating is not always a positive start to a relationship. It generally indicates poor moral character.


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## CuddleBug

I find homosexuality un natural, for very obvious biological reasons. 

Male + female = genes merged and next generation. 

Female + Female = nothing

Male + Male = nothing.

Gay genes never passed on and its more choices and something else we don't fully understand yet.

I know guys who are atheists and find homosexuality disgusting and a mental disorder and are much more vocal about it too.

Myself for an example. I have a high sex drive. My wifee has a much lower sex drive. When I get really in the mood, I view porn and get it out of my system. I chose to do this and genetics didn't make me do it. Of course I'd rather have sex often with my wife. I also chose not to go out and have sex with a high sex drive woman who wants a friend with many benefits often. My choice not to do so and not genetics. Nothing stopping me at all and I could easily do this. Or a 3 some two bi sexual ladies. Want to do me and themselves all at the same time. Would love this as well. But I chose not to do so and not genetics. Moral free will and choices we make, chain react into our adult lives and it becomes 2nd nature, normal to us and therefore must be genetic. no. If I told Mrs.CuddleBug, I had a friend with benefits or a 3 some with two hot bi sexual ladies and its my genetics........suuuuuure, right.:scratchhead:

Homosexuality is nothing new at all. It has nothing to do with modern societies, population sizes, technologies, or pollutions, etc. It was around much more during the roman empire times. You could have open orgies, being single or married. You could have sex with young boys or girls if you wanted. Hetero and **** sex if you wanted. Anything you wanted back then, you could just do it with no issues. It is due to the choices we make in life that lead to other choices and how we decide to live our lives. Genetics don't make you do this or that. We have moral free will and a mind. Genetics only get passed on if genes merge and those genetic traits are in the next generation. That is impossible for two men or two women and same with adoption.

I find people who say God hates gay people, etc. disgusting. Everyone should be able to live their lives in peace with the choices they make. No discrimination, no harassment, and no fear. God loves gay people. God doesn't like the sins we commit though and that's if we even admit what we are doing are sins......and that's were Christ comes into the picture, washing us of our sins, if we accept, admit, repent and make the effort to change, or not, but that's all choice as well.

What if thousands of people like having sex with young boys and girls. The world is in an uproar, lock them up, harass them, perverts and other things. Now go into the future 100 years and millions of people like to have sex with young boys and girls. Now they have an association, groups and support, rallies, etc. Then its slowly accepted and lets be tolerant and it must be genetic. Then more into the future it is accepted as normal in society and no one blinks an eye. If you don't agree or support this, you are now pedofileophobic.


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## clipclop2

The latter isn't going to happen. People know the difference. And too many have been scarred by child sexual abuse.

It is easier to acknowledge that staying in the closet has caused scars for many young people and adults... And many spouses and children.


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## RClawson

Do not be so naïve clipclop. 30 years ago people scoffed at the idea that there would one day be same sex marriage. I live in California and there are child abuse cases in schools where school professionals cross the lines and take advantage of kids and it takes an act of God to get them prosecuted. This is especially true with teenagers here. This stuff just flies under the radar here unless you have a journalist who takes the dog with a bone attitude and will not let it go.

The first step is to lower the age of consent and then it just creeps lower. If you do not believe this is an agenda and that there are perverted forces behind it imbedded even in the legal system then you really are not paying very close attention but then if it ain't the Bachelor or Bachelorette etc. then most people really aren't paying attention to it.


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## clipclop2

I'm not naive. The victim and the parents have to have the will to take it to the mat.

But that is in no way comparable to legalizing adults having sex with children.

An agenda by some sickos is not a reason to over react. It is an excuse to hate gays.

I'm one of those people who is unable to fathom same sex attraction. But I have witnessed it in young people. It is innocent and just the way they are built. I don't have that response. I've been into guys since I was very, very little. Clearly my being pinned that way is less normal than for instance, my younger daughter who didn't prefer anything but princesses until much later in her childhood. 

When you look at a kid and can see that they are different there is no way you can attribute it to evil forces. That same daughter had a very good male friend who at an extremely early age was clearly gay. Cut the little dude some slack. He is how he is. And he is in no way the lead horseman of death in leading peodophiles to legalizing their desire.


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## CASE_Sensitive

My biggest issue with Bob's WW is that she's exposing her kids to someone new who may or may not be in their future. The reality is the kids are going through a divorce stage now and coping with that is difficult enough without bringing someone new into the situation. Bob's wife is technically cheating and this is a CWI thread. I can understand someone having issues with their sexuality and drifting apart from their loved ones, but how they do it and whether they are mindful of their impact on others needs to be accounted for.


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## bobsmith

No doubt I have a VERY watchful eye on the situation. My kids say, "yeah, two mommies". I am extremely concerned of the damage this will now do to our kids and I will end up being the responsible parent. SO went off the deep end and just pure to her form, is thinking of NO ONE but herself. 

The whole situation makes me want to puke but I remain on point that I need to get normal back around my house even though I am switching to a bachelor mentality. 

I knew the red flags going in and did not pay attention!! She told me she never wants to be married, never wants kids, and had a ***** girl a year before I was around. That should have been enough you would think...

the ONLY thing I will accept as a lifetime partner is a wholesome catholic girl with family values. My ex's family are ALL selfish people and I was VERY naive to think she was different. I am taking great pride in giving her the **** off treatment because she has some BS notion that we will still be friends and I can come over for tea....:rofl: I can't wait till she falls down like she always does so I can tell her to **** off some more. She made her bed and I am now thoroughly enjoying meeting new girls that are normal family women with value.


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## tom67

bobsmith said:


> No doubt I have a VERY watchful eye on the situation. My kids say, "yeah, two mommies". I am extremely concerned of the damage this will now do to our kids and I will end up being the responsible parent. SO went off the deep end and just pure to her form, is thinking of NO ONE but herself.
> 
> The whole situation makes me want to puke but I remain on point that I need to get normal back around my house even though I am switching to a bachelor mentality.
> 
> I knew the red flags going in and did not pay attention!! She told me she never wants to be married, never wants kids, and had a ***** girl a year before I was around. That should have been enough you would think...
> 
> the ONLY thing I will accept as a lifetime partner is a wholesome catholic girl with family values. My ex's family are ALL selfish people and I was VERY naive to think she was different. I am taking great pride in giving her the **** off treatment because she has some BS notion that we will still be friends and I can come over for tea....:rofl: I can't wait till she falls down like she always does so I can tell her to **** off some more. She made her bed and I am now thoroughly enjoying meeting new girls that are normal family women with value.


Bob I have no problem you accepting the new mainstream gay is god way of thinking.
the Southern Poverty Law Center promotes this crap or as Koernke says he calls then Southern Perversion Law
Hey if two guys/gals want to live together I don't care.
Do NOT push your agenda on me.
Oh by the way the SPLC is nothing but a liberal Jewish cabal trying to divide Christians.
And I'm spiritual now.


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## tom67

Oh I just out criminals and they are not of the same religion.
Former Chicago mayor Richard M Daley sold out the cities parking meters for 50 years.
He then became a "consultant" for said company and should be prosecuted and he is Irish/Catholic.

Just sayin.


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## Nsweet

Bobsmith cut the crap here. 

It's not that I didn't love reading 6 pages of lesbian homophobia and you denying the real issues, but cut the crap here. You're not as angry and homophobic as you'd like us all to believe! 

What's really going on here is you still love your wife, you're angry and heartbroken that she doesn't want to even try to save the marriage, and you feel like you're being replaced by the downgrade girlfriend here. Does that sound about right? 

This isn't even about her being with another girl. It's about her cheating on you and moving on with someone else while you were separated and hoping you could work things out by talking. 

While others may hear blah blah gay bashing BS, I'm seeing here is you're deflecting from the real issues here and hiding behind a lot of anger and hate because you don't want to express what you're really feeling. I don't know you personally, but if I were in your place I'd feel really hurt, confused, and betrayed, maybe a little scared that my wife might replace me as the father with her common law wife.


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## bobsmith

Sure, I felt all those and still do to some extent. However, I realize in talking with other women, just how screwed over I was for over a decade! Chasing someone that would not reciprocate. She has serious vulnerability issues. Like would never reach to hold my hand, hug me, kiss me, etc. I am supposed to do all of that. I want to feel loved too!!! 

I think I am more torqued about allowing myself in this mess!! I am now mid 30s with TWO kids. That slims down who will get with me real quick!

The ***** thing sort of explains some things though. I am sure I was really was not making her happy if she really wanted another beaver to munch instead of a prick. 

Yes I feel very hurt but I also know that at least for me, the quickest way to healing is to date another and forget.


One issue I always had with her is she is not all that smart... Like not very educated. Always annoyed me that I cannot have an intelligent conversation with her. Her new lezzy is just like her. I have seen how she writes. They are an ignorant match made in Heaven! 

As far as downgrade, I am TOTALLY confused with her selection but just firms up that I know NOTHING about her. Her toy really is ugly, dresses horribly, and really does look like a man. I cannot figure it out. If she hooked up with a hot little number, hell, I might just want to get in bed with the pair of them! My ex also just HATES smoking but the new toy smokes like a chimney!


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## Nsweet

Ok, so your wife was a lesbian. Big deal! You're out of that relationship and free to date whoever you please. 

But if I were you I'd take some time off to relax and reflect a bit, maybe work on myself a whole lot before trying to get back out there. All that anger you have now if going to drive off women everywhere. 

Try to refrain from projecting all that anger onto your wife, on here, or anywhere else for that matter. Calling your wife an ugly stupid **** is not going to make you feel any better but it will make you sound like a total jerk... The type of which seem to get banned from TAM often. 

The Next Guy: Did your Ex-Girlfriend or Ex-Wife Downgrade? | Shrink4Men


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## Blondilocks

*"All that anger you have now if going to drive off women everywhere."*

Bob, you can take that statement to the bank. Everyone has baggage from previous relationships but no one wants to deal with someone else's.

In addition to all of your other requirements for a new love interest, now they have to be Catholic? 

Between your anger (which jumps off the page) and your requirements and your children and your job situation, you may be waiting a long time for that perfect someone to come along. Good luck with the search.


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## CuddleBug

If it turned out, Mrs.CuddleBug liked the ladies but never told anyone, including myself and then one evening, went out with her girlfriends, and they got a bit drunk. They dance with her, flirt and hit on her and she goes with it because they're friends. Then one of them grabs her close and kisses her. Mrs.CuddleBug doesn't know what to do. She doesn't freak out because this is her friend. Then this friend starts kissing her more and they leave together and have sex. Mrs.CuddleBug enjoyed it but was shocked that she allowed it to happen and doesn't know if she should tell me.....she is obviously confused. Does this make her a lesbian? No. She went out, partied, and allowed her friend to start making out with her. She didn't have the strength of character to say, hey, stop this is wrong and one thing led to another.

If Mrs.CuddleBug told me this sometime later, would I freak on her? No. I would be upset but I would want to know why she allowed this to happen to her. Then I could learn to rock her world more the way she might like it, as her hubby. Better oral sex? Toys? Oils? More massages and rubbing? Dress up?



I can see you being hurt and betrayed more than she is with another woman. Totally understandable.

Funny how she is with a woman who dresses and even looks a bit like a man. Should of stayed with you.....makes no sense.



Morals have always been going down the toilet as time moves on. 


First we waited until we got married, then moved in together and had kids, under God.

Then we had sex, lived together, then got married and had kids but God was still there somewhat.

Then we had sex, lived together, had kids and then got married, no god.

Then we had sex, lived together, had kids, never get married and no god.

Notice a pattern?



Back in the time of Jesus, being gay, lesbian, open orgies, having sex with young boys and girls, etc. all was okay. Then most of that was shunned and minimized. Now today, last century, we have being gay, lesbian is okay again, and even sex with young boys and girls (groups for that), and teachers, priests, etc.



First we said being gay is wrong.

Then we said being gay is not wrong.

Then we said being gay is genetic, justifying the un natural behavior.

Then we said gay marriage was wrong.

Then we said, gay civil union is okay.

Now we are saying gay marriage is okay and Jesus would be cool about gay marriage, etc. (Elton John for obvious reasons)

Now its okay, parades, tolerance, but the kids no longer understand that male and female is the natural and proper way anymore.

Notice a pattern?



First we said, having sex with kids is wrong, jail, prison, lose your job.

Then we said, maybe its genetic.

Then we said, as long as its consenting individuals, its okay.

Now we have groups for that and as they get bigger, will be more acceptable and mainstream, like gay marriage and everything else.

Then we lower the age of consent again.

Notice a pattern?



First we said, having sex with animals is wrong.

There are tribes and counties that do practice this.

Anyone who does this is locked up, prison, lose their job, etc.

Then we said, maybe genetic.

Then we say, as long as its not hurting the animals.

Then we say, we all are animals anyway. Evolution.

Then more people start doing this openly and groups form.

Then we have animal sex rights, and parades.

Then it becomes more acceptable and mainstream

Then it is accepted and no one blinks an eye anymore.

Notice a pattern?



When you take away what was wrong in the eyes of God, you get all this and there will be much more to come. Over time, societies will not get better, they will become more morally void and anything goes. Technology also speeds this up. Internet is mainly used for porn.


No one will believe in God anymore, morally void, anything goes and wonder why its so bad and getting worse?

Those who do still believe in God will be shunned, not tolerant and even persecuted and killed.

I'm not perfect and I'm corrupt but I try and follow God's teachings and will never agree with all the above, no matter how bad society gets.


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## Blondilocks

You're a wordy little cuddlebug, aren't you? lol


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## Nsweet

Wait a minute there CuttleBug. 

Your wife's "friend" came onto her and pursued sex with her when she was drunk knowing that A) she was just a friend, and B) she was married. *That doesn't sound like a "friend" to me. That sounds more like someone with poor boundaries who enjoys taking advantage of others.*

Not to single you out or anything or bring up old issues. It's just that from the other side of that perspective, it just sounds like that "friend" had been planning on this to happen and waiting for her chance.


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## Nsweet

Did anyone else point out that this lesbian relationship is an exit affair? It is.

The thing about these exit affairs is they are used to avoid dealing with the real issues and to escape from the pain of divorce. Why feel hurt that you're ending your marriage when you can mask it with love and convince yourself your new friend is the love of your life. They are also notoriously short lived and end badly with lots of trust issues and open emotional wounds left over from the previous relationship(s).

One thing I have seen from bisexual women who decide to go from a long-term relationship with a man to back to homosexual relationships with women, is they don't seem to last. I mean they wouldn't last if they were to go from one man to another, because they don't take time off to figure themselves out. Can anyone say "whirlwind romance"? 

bobsmith, I've been around here for a couple years and I've seen this sort of situation plan out numerous times. I guarantee you that your wife's affair is not going to last for more than a year or two, based on how she's running away from her problems now and how she's infatuated with her new partner so soon. I mean she's already cheating with her, can you imagine what it's going to feel like to live in fear that your lesbian partner is going leave you to go back to men or her husband? I can also safely predict that by that time you're going to be over her and probably dating someone that is a much better fit for you.... That is if you can get closure, get over this hurt, and let go of a lot of that anger before it corrupts you. 

I'm dead serious bobsmith. You need to let the gay bashing go and go find away to vent your anger and frustration without attacking the mother of your children or women. Go workout or learn how to play a musical instrument. Do something with your time that will allow you to forget about what is happening for a few hours a day. 

And I'll tell you from experience. There are a lot worse things than having a homosexual parent. Having a lesbian for a mom is not as bad as you'd think either. You do get a bit more nagging from both sides but you grow up just fine. The only difference between a household with a mother and a father is with two mother figures you have a little more appreciation for women. You don't association women as being something to always take advantage or take care of, because you learn that's just not healthy. You also do so much better with dating because you don't get a head full of sh!tty advice about how to treat women from men trying to help you learn from THEIR mistakes.


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## Cynthia

Bob, I can understand how upset you are, but letting anger and bitterness take a hold of you is only going to make you miserable. Let her go and forgive her. Make your life better and focus on your children and self-improvement.
Any new relationship is only as healthy as the people in it, so the healthier and happier you are before you move into a new relationship, the better the relationship will be.
Are you attending church? If you hope to find a serious Catholic woman, you might want to consider getting involved in church and returning to making your faith the center of your life. Otherwise why would a serious Catholic want to have anything to do with you?


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## Counterfit

Hope1964 said:


> Can you please stop saying "the *****"? It makes you sound like a *******.


Agreed. Use of the term "**************" is now the prefered term among us ********.


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## Q tip

"When we met, it was just a friend with benny deal and I found out shortly after that prior she had a girlfriend. She said she tried it, it was not for her and never orgasmed once in that world and was done with it. I left it at that even though it was a HUGE red flag with my instincts to run like hell, this girl may not have a clue what she wants"

What part of your own paragraph do you not understand!!!

Read up on MMSLP and get a pair. Stop noodling around. 

Pay attention next time and make sharp decisions for yourself. You've proven you can be wrong. Not a problem if you are willing to learn. Take action to be right next time. Act on your gut feelings. Listen to them.


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## bobsmith

No doubt this process has been HUGELY painful. I feel like a big baby right now but not sure how I am supposed to cope. Everyone makes the big claims like "improve yourself, focus on your kids." Like that is just so easy to do....!!!

I found out today that the new fling is working on her house so my ex can move in with her. She lives 30miles away.... Even more separation from my kids. The fight will be on about the time she tries to put them in metro schools....

It is VERY hard to get past this stuff. I am not sure if I am supposed to just delete all the pictures of our life, forget about it, etc. Just looking at them drives me to drinking. I just had to listen to my son say how weirded out he was seeing them kiss!!! But somehow people will rationalize that it is not doing any damage and perfectly normal for my son to feel bad. It sickens me to see my kids hurt!!!!


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## COGypsy

bobsmith said:


> I just had to listen to my son say how weirded out he was seeing them kiss!!! But somehow people will rationalize that it is not doing any damage and perfectly normal for my son to feel bad. It sickens me to see my kids hurt!!!!


To be fair though, it was weird for a long time for me to see my mom and stepdad kiss--just because for the first decade and a half of my life, I thought kissing was only for family and my mom and dad were my family. It was several years after the divorce before I met my now stepdad, but it was still just REALLY strange to see one of my parents with someone new.


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## Cynthia

bobsmith said:


> No doubt this process has been HUGELY painful. I feel like a big baby right now but not sure how I am supposed to cope. Everyone makes the big claims like "improve yourself, focus on your kids." Like that is just so easy to do....!!!
> 
> I found out today that the new fling is working on her house so my ex can move in with her. She lives 30miles away.... Even more separation from my kids. The fight will be on about the time she tries to put them in metro schools....
> 
> It is VERY hard to get past this stuff. I am not sure if I am supposed to just delete all the pictures of our life, forget about it, etc. Just looking at them drives me to drinking. I just had to listen to my son say how weirded out he was seeing them kiss!!! But somehow people will rationalize that it is not doing any damage and perfectly normal for my son to feel bad. It sickens me to see my kids hurt!!!!


The reason you are reacting this way is because you love her. You always had hoped to marry her. You thought you two were working towards reconciliation. Now you find out she would rather have a woman than you. It is hurtful.
Learn to let go of her. She is finished with you. In order to heal, you need to finish with her. Be done.
Yes, it is hard to work on yourself, but that is the only thing that works. Taking proper care of yourself, loving yourself, is imperative to get healing. If you stay where you are, you will become bitter and you will never find happiness. Happiness is not found in your ex. Look in the mirror. You will find true happiness in taking care of yourself and your family. Eventually you will find a new love, but right now getting healthy in your body, soul and spirit is where you will find what you need.


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## Cynthia

You don't have a legal custody agreement do you? Please see an attorney and get that resolved asap.


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## bobsmith

Just not that easy. "forget about her".... I am trying. Dating seems the only way to get my mind off of that. 

This is more than just her, I am losing my kids... She said she did not want to end up in the legal system but I know she is checking around for a lawyer. I will wait and see what she does. I am sure that will certainly put the last nail in the coffin for me. My family is very experienced in the legal system so I am not too concerned there.


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## Cynthia

bobsmith said:


> Just not that easy. "forget about her".... I am trying. Dating seems the only way to get my mind off of that.
> 
> This is more than just her, I am losing my kids... She said she did not want to end up in the legal system but I know she is checking around for a lawyer. I will wait and see what she does. I am sure that will certainly put the last nail in the coffin for me. My family is very experienced in the legal system so I am not too concerned there.


I did not say to forget her. You obviously cannot just forget about her. But you can decide to be finished with the relationship that you had desired. Of course this is hard, but it is not impossible. It is something that you work at by refocusing your thoughts into productive areas. Dwelling on her will not help you. You can re-focus your thoughts. It takes a conscious effort to do it.
How are you losing your kids? Don't they live with you at least 1/2 time? If she is looking for an attorney, why aren't you also doing that? It is much better to be prepared rather than being in a hurry to respond.


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## bobsmith

Well, losing my kids 50% of the time is HARD!

Regarding atty, I will just say this, my family has pro-se litigated against the best attorneys in the city, even at a trial. I will litigate my own case if needed. I am not the slightest bit concerned about it. I am involved with a heavy case right now on a family matter imputing income statements for a child support matter.


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## Cynthia

bobsmith said:


> Well, losing my kids 50% of the time is HARD!
> 
> Regarding atty, I will just say this, my family has pro-se litigated against the best attorneys in the city, even at a trial. I will litigate my own case if needed. I am not the slightest bit concerned about it. I am involved with a heavy case right now on a family matter imputing income statements for a child support matter.


What do you do for a living? Somehow I got the impression you were a general contractor. I must be wrong.


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## bobsmith

I am an engineer but I guess through the course of life and experiences in the legal system, I got good at knowing the system. My bro is actually helping head up a motion to change the child support laws in my state. They are calculating it wrong!


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## Cynthia

bobsmith said:


> I am an engineer but I guess through the course of life and experiences in the legal system, I got good at knowing the system. My bro is actually helping head up a motion to change the child support laws in my state. They are calculating it wrong!


Interesting. I'm glad you are not worried.
Try to refocus on building your life and the lives of your children and helping them to work through their dismay over their mom's relationship. Don't bash their mother. Listen to them. Help them work through. Focus on the kids and building relationship with them. When they know they can count on you to be there for them and to listen fully to them, you will forge a strong bond with them.


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