# Privacy in marriage...



## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

Hey, so should a husband and wife share passwords to Facebook/email/cell phones/etc.?

I had a feeling my hubby was chatting with a woman (he met at work a month ago), went through his phone and found a picture of her and text messages (non-sexual). She was also his new Facebook friend. So... I asked him if he's been chatting with her and he denied it, so I told him I what I found in his phone! He was keeping this from me and I wouldn't have known if I didn't find it. He said she sent him the pic so he could set her up with a friend of ours, who isn't single. Also, he believes I shouldn't have access to texts from/to his best buddies, so I think that means he has texted them about something he has to hide! Now, a week later, he's changed his password, says he is entitled to his privacy and refuses to share anything with me... In the text conversation with her, he mentioned going to his office (right beside the gym) so he could use his laptop at work, after the gym. So... last night, he said he was going to the gym and would be a couple of hours. After 4 hours I called him and he was at the office (bad cell reception is a dead giveaway)! I called him on the BS and he got defensive right away, it turned into an arguement and it wasn't resolved. He had a suitcase already packed up (I had no idea), took his stuff and left this morning without saying when he'd be back. 

I get that with all my "questioning" I have been asking him indirectly if he's cheating and he says NO, and is insulted that I have accused him, which I haven't. I just asked questions about his actions and what he's said lately. 

He feels his privacy is invaded, and I feel that he has crossed a line and turned outside our marriage by chatting to her about things he should be telling me.

The way I see it, he has everything to hide and told me he's not backing down. I am feeling that my trust for him has eroded and he won't show me he has nothing to hide! And on the flip side, if he is guility of whatever, if I knew, I could deal with it!
He's just not giving me anything.

He doesn't get it that he has upset me and that I am totally struggling with trust issues after him lying to me. Now I know something is/was going on! 

Has anyone else gone through this and what did you do about it to work things out and compromise? There has to be a way.

What do you think? Also, how should I be reacting to him now? I don't know what to say or do.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

If he has nothing to hide, he wouldn't be upset. Plain and simple. The problem you face now is that you confronted before you could do some digging.

If you are wanting to work on the marriage I would pull the catch 22. You will have to wait about 6 months, letting him think he has his privacy. Start having divorce papers drawn up and when he comes home with his phone and laptop, ask him to hand it over and log into everything. I bet he still won't give you the information, that is when you hand him the papers or continue to bury your head in the sand. Also, you might want to search his car when you can. He knows that you are on to him....it is time to get sneaky!!!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

First of all, before all this started, how was your marriage?


If this is an emotional affair, and I'm not saying it is, what is he getting out of it that he's not getting from the marriage? If your answer to that question points to something you could reasonably give to him, then start doing it.

It really sounds like you are hounding him and being needy and clingy and frankly, that would drive anyone away.

I know there are lots of people on TAM who will disagree with me, but I think to should drop the accusations immediately and give him space. As you give him space, work on yourself. Make yourself happy, make yourself exciting. 

You said in another thread that you've been married 7 years. The old 7 year itch? Has the relationship become stale? Predictable? Is he going through something at work that makes him feel worn out, emotionally worn out so much that he needs to find something about which to be excited, to regain his enthusiasm for life?

Worry about him talking to other women is, in my opinion, just plain stupid. You can never control another person, you can only control yourself. Make yourself the kind of exciting woman that he can't wait to get home to. If you do that and he doesn't respond then you can worry.

It is possible for a married person to have a friendship with the opposite sex, but many here on TAM think that is an EA and I don't agree. If you have to hound your husband, spy on him, test him, and demand his give up any privacy... You don't have much of a marriage.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

This is better placed at the CWI (coping with infidelity) forum, lots of similar cases there....


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> ...
> It is possible for a married person to have a friendship with the opposite sex, but many here on TAM think that is an EA and I don't agree. If you have to hound your husband, spy on him, test him, and demand his give up any privacy... You don't have much of a marriage.


I think also that it's possible to have opposite sex friendships, but if there are certain boundaries crossed it became an EA.

The H surely behaves like having an EA/PA, so checking that out is very justified here.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Based on your other thread, you have every reason to be concerned. I would try to determine whether or not he is with her..his EA/confidant.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Although I believe in full transparency, I see two things that would concern me.

1) he's willing to set up a *married *man with this woman - whether it's a lie because he's interested in her or not is a huge red flag as to how he views extramarital affairs - he's saying right up front he approves and is willing to facilitate one.

2) he already had a bag packed so he already knew he was going to leave and go elsewhere.

Normally I don't jump to conclusions but those signs are not good. I could see being annoyed that you were checking up on him but if he had nothing to hide, why change all of the passwords and get super secretive?

It may be too late for you to smooth things over and wait 6 months for him to relax. And would you want the toll that would take emotionally?

Maybe instead address the things you DO know - like 1 and 2 and discuss with him. Find out if he's unhappy and ask him to attend marriage counseling.


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## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> 1) he's willing to set up a *married *man with this woman - whether it's a lie because he's interested in her or not is a huge red flag as to how he views extramarital affairs - he's saying right up front he approves and is willing to facilitate one.
> 
> 2) he already had a bag packed so he already knew he was going to leave and go elsewhere.


1.) You are totally right and have a point. It's just another way he is justifying communicating with her! Also, he is using his buddy as an ecapegoat/excuse and say's I was at his house, or chatted with him, etc. Load of bull. Oh, and he said he couldn't date her cuz she is too much like him. Ya right.

2.) He sent me a text saying he'd tell me where he went, but is mad cuz I wouldn't believe him anyway. It would help me know who he's talking to about our issues!


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

People only hide things IF they have something to hide.
Many red flags here.

If this woman WAS just a friend there would be no secrets, no lies...there would be no need.

We have no secrets in our marriage...we both have full access to phones, PC's, passwords etc... no secrets.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I think all "electronic" should be shared..no "secret codes" ..ALL open..exception is a written diary..(hand written) ..but communications with others? open..Unless I'm "on the phone" and I say I WANT private..other than that the whole secret e-mail and blah blah blah ..

If you really want to "know "though..whats in your spouses head if you really care..TALK to them..Maybe they will tell you something..


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

When married, the two people become one flesh so there is no privacy in marriage, period. If you want privacy, stay single.

Time after time, couples who do not operate on the above basis will find themselves in the coping with infidelity forum. 

Exception:
Going to the bathroom


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Married in VA said:


> When married, the two people become one flesh so there is no privacy in marriage, period. If you want privacy, stay single.
> 
> Time after time, couples who do not operate on the above basis will find themselves in the coping with infidelity forum.
> 
> ...


why cant I watch you go to the bathroom?What are you hiding?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

The wife and I have separate laptops. Technically, she can have my password, but it's long and cryptic and I'm glad she can't easily remember it.

I've worked too many years in the computer industry to let another person into my account, even my wife. I've had to deal with the cleanup from viruses sent in emails, corrupted accounts and hard disks, and all of the other headaches that come along with a novice user who doesn't fully understand how to avoid getting compromised.

I will tell her the password to my account if she has to type it in to do something immediate, so I don't refuse her access, but I also don't grant it easily.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I seem to recall other posts in TAM from women who say "sometimes I talk to my girlfriends about private things like issues with my husband or friend issues that I don't want my husband to see." Are those legitimate reasons to lock phones/computers?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

staarz21 said:


> Nope. What do girlfriends talk about that they can't share with their husbands? I can't think of one thing I would tell friends that my husband couldn't know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Me either.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Chris Taylor said:


> I seem to recall other posts in TAM from women who say "sometimes I talk to my girlfriends about private things like issues with my husband or friend issues that I don't want my husband to see." Are those legitimate reasons to lock phones/computers?


I might not be the 'norm' but i don't discuss personal things about my marriage with my friends.... never have. There's nothing I say/write/text to a friend that hubby couldn't see... so no need to lock any personal devices.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Chris Taylor said:


> I seem to recall other posts in TAM from women who say "sometimes I talk to my girlfriends about private things like issues with my husband or friend issues that I don't want my husband to see." Are those legitimate reasons to lock phones/computers?


Yes, yes they are. Sometimes we need to organize our thoughts and feeling before we can be effective in dealing with our spouse. Your friends deserve the confidentiality they have always been given. I have friends from childhood, he doesn't get to be privy to those conversations. I have new friends we've made as a couple. He does get to know about those conversations. Being married, they way some of you describe it, sound horribly limiting and debilitating.

Self confidence and trust, much more mature and most likely to promote healthy growth individually and as a couple.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> Nope. What do girlfriends talk about that they can't share with their husbands? I can't think of one thing I would tell friends that my husband couldn't know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We could discuss my husband for instance. If you are my friend and I divulge things to you, I have the right to expect confidentiality. I have the right to talk with you about my life without your husband knowing what I'm saying. If you feel I don't have that right, I sure you every one of your friends understands that you don't keep their confidence.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

I think that ok, if you want to talk about your husband to your friends that is totally fine. You should be able to in complete confidentiality. In person. Or via phone conversation and not by text, if you don't want anyone to see that conversation.
There is NO reson to have password protected phones/computers, NO reason NOT to share facebook/email passwords. 
Even if you don't snoop, at least the confidence was put in you that there is nothing to hide so you can 'see for yourself if need be'.
Im not saying I am a fan of snooping, just transperency in relationships.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> We could discuss my husband for instance. If you are my friend and I divulge things to you, I have the right to expect confidentiality. I have the right to talk with you about my life without your husband knowing what I'm saying. If you feel I don't have that right, I sure you every one of your friends understands that you don't keep their confidence.


My husband is an extension of me, and I of him. If my friends don't want him to know something, then guess what? Don't tell me. Because, I keep NOTHING from him. Guess what? They still tell me their secrets, knowing that my husband is the only one I talk to about these things. So, I am in the camp that keeps nothing from my spouse, and that includes friends secrets. Everything is open to him. Everything. And everything of his is open to me.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

He is hiding something or he wouldn't care about his privacy. Spending four hours at the gym would be a big red flag to me.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> My husband is an extension of me, and I of him.* If my friends don't want him to know something, then guess what? Don't tell me. Because, I keep NOTHING from him. Guess what? *They still tell me their secrets, knowing that my husband is the only one I talk to about these things. So, I am in the camp that keeps nothing from my spouse, and that includes friends secrets. Everything is open to him. Everything. And everything of his is open to me.


Yeah, I agree. what's the point of telling your friend some gossip about her husband if she can't tell her husband?

In my younger days, I was blind sided by this technique as well. thinking that I would close off my source of info by acting on information, sometimes negative stuff about me that should have been corrected, I would do nothing about it.

now I realise, sometimes this stuff is simply made up on the spot. The purported speaker sometimes never said anything about you, and yet a coworker, for example, thought they may help their own situation by making stuff up.

If secrets aren't kept in any arena, your life would be a better place.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

curlysue321 said:


> He is hiding something or he wouldn't care about his privacy. Spending four hours at the gym would be a big red flag to me.


Yes, four hours at the gym. That's the elephant in the room that hasn't been mentioned until now. There's something going on he doesn't want his wife to know. I don't think she should push the transparency issue for now. He's made it clear what he thinks about that. He's wrong, but if she keeps pushing, he'll hide his 'secret' better, making it harder for her to uncover what's going on. 

This thread should be moved to the 'Coping with Infidelity' section and advice should be given as to methods of spying and snooping.

And back to the point, there's no privacy in a marriage. Access to email, phones, texts, facebook, etc. has to be an open book. All of this modern technology is relatively new, so proper marriage-friendly guidelines need to be implemented. It's all happened so fast, that marriages are all over the place as to what the agreed-upon marital agreements should be. It's a different world than when families would have one phone line.


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## Vrs (Jan 23, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Although I believe in full transparency, I see two things that would concern me.
> 
> 1) he's willing to set up a *married *man with this woman - whether it's a lie because he's interested in her or not is a huge red flag as to how he views extramarital affairs - he's saying right up front he approves and is willing to facilitate one.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything here and couldn't have said it better - except for one thing ... where EnjoliWoman said, "but if he had nothing to hide, why change all of the passwords and get super secretive?"

I don't think it's super secretive to have your own email account, facebook account, etc., and to have your own passwords. My wife and I each have our own accounts and passwords and want to keep it that way. If I really trust her I don't need to know everything she says and does and she doesn't need to know the same from me.

Like others have posted I also believe in marriage the two become as one. But I interpret that as one in purpose, i.e., the goals we share as a couple, etc. It doesn't mean we become the same person. I guarantee you my wife and I think differently, have different likes and dislikes and don't always interpret things the same way. And that's ok, because while we are one we are also individuals.

I trust my wife enough not to need to know all she says and does at all times. That's living in a police state where you've got the thought police approving and disapproving whatever is said and done. Nope. I'll take my privacy and give her hers any day of the week. If I can't trust her enough based on who I know she is and the level of intimacy between us then we've got bigger problems than having our own personal lives and personal passwords.

No, for me the two become one means in the relationship. The union of the two and what you stand for and try to achieve together. But that never means you cease being your own person with your own individuality. Are you allowed the privacy of your own thoughts? Do you disclose to your spouse what you're thinking at all times? 

To those who say yes all I can say to that is if you'll pay attention to your thought life with your spouse over the next week I think you'll agree with me at the end of the week there are some things you think about that are better left unsaid. And guess what? That's privacy. It wasn't shared and shouldn't be. But it doesn't mean I'm up to something devious. It means I'm using my best judgement on what's said or left unsaid, rather than blurting out whatever happens to cross my mind. No, I much prefer respecting each others right to our own lives as individuals even though we share ourselves with each other in marriage.


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## ExiledBayStater (Feb 16, 2013)

Um, I don't want my wife to know that I access this website. Other than that my internet usage is pretty boring.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Vrs said:


> I agree with everything here and couldn't have said it better - except for one thing ... where EnjoliWoman said, "but if he had nothing to hide, why change all of the passwords and get super secretive?"
> 
> I don't think it's super secretive to have your own email account, facebook account, etc., and to have your own passwords. My wife and I each have our own accounts and passwords and want to keep it that way. If I really trust her I don't need to know everything she says and does and she doesn't need to know the same from me.
> 
> ...


Vrs, you sound like me---that is, up until a couple of years ago, when I uncovered my wife's EA. 

I'll never forget the shocking feeling I had to think my loving, trusting wife could ever do something like that. Reading this forum and the similar stories about all of the betrayed spouses' astonishment that the person they trust most could keep damaging secrets from them start to pile up very quickly.

It can be very easy for affairs to develop, and it happens a lot. And often it happens to normally good people who would never in the past dream of doing something like that. So why make it easy for a spouse to cross boundaries by not insisting on an open book with passwords, email accounts, cell phones, etc. It's not that big a deal. I know my wife's info and it's not like I'm constantly looking over her shoulder reading every thought and word. 

It's just a good, secure feeling to know we both look out for each other. Having open access to that information is another component in having strong, healthy boundaries.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> I seem to recall other posts in TAM from women who say "sometimes I talk to my girlfriends about private things like issues with my husband or friend issues that I don't want my husband to see." Are those legitimate reasons to lock phones/computers?


Not in my marriage. The first person I go to is my husband. He is my best friend and the only one person I fully trust. I don't hide passwords or lock electronics. Our passwords is in our file cabinet next to the computer if we need them. It's updated every time a password changes.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Privacy in Marriage*? Now, that's a total *oxymoron*!


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## Vrs (Jan 23, 2013)

Cubby even if my wife had an EA I found out about I wouldn't blame that on having our own accounts and passwords. It would be more about the person she is. If she's the kind of person who will cheat because she has her own account and password she will find a way to cheat even with "transparency". Cheaters cheat.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Vrs said:


> Cubby even if my wife had an EA I found out about I wouldn't blame that on having our own accounts and passwords. It would be more about the person she is. If she's the kind of person who will cheat because she has her own account and password she will find a way to cheat even with "transparency". Cheaters cheat.


I agree that if a cheater's gonna cheat, he/she will find a way. But that's not what I'm talking about. My point is that agreeing on open access to accounts and passwords is part of the process of setting and agreeing on boundaries.

Most agree that having firm boundaries in a marriage is essential, but somehow privacy with emails and cell phones is controversial. Boundaries are just like open accounts and passwords. If a cheater wants to cheat, a boundary isn't going to stop them. What I'm talking about are agreements to help keep good, well-intentioned married people from slipping up and eventually finding themselves involved with somebody else. I'm not talking about cheaters who want to cheat.

I've often received Facebook messages from females for various reasons, and my thoughts are always to conduct myself as if my wife wouldn't have a problem with the conversation. Does she go into my account and read my messages? I don't think so. But she can if she wants to. I'm an open book. 

While the openness doesn't prevent me from starting an affair, it helps to remind me to not get into any inappropriate territory, which can then easily eventually slide into unfaithfulness and then possibly into cheating.


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## Leobwin (Apr 28, 2012)

My personal rule of thumb: when privacy can hurt your partner, it becomes secrecy, and there's no place for secrecy in a relationship.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I think all "electronic" should be shared..no "secret codes" ..ALL open..exception is a written diary..(hand written) ..but communications with others? open..Unless I'm "on the phone" and I say I WANT private..other than that the whole secret e-mail and blah blah blah ..
> 
> If you really want to "know "though..whats in your spouses head if you really care..TALK to them..Maybe they will tell you something..


While I agree with Dallas, the only thing that really matters is what you think.

So in the end, he has a right to demand privacy (and lets face it, you can't make him give that information to you). 

You, on the other hand, have the right to then determine whether that is acceptable to you in your marriage. If it is not, then you need to act accordingly. Does not matter what he thinks on this if you believe strongly that it is necessary for you.


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## Vrs (Jan 23, 2013)

Cubby said:


> I agree that if a cheater's gonna cheat, he/she will find a way. But that's not what I'm talking about. My point is that agreeing on open access to accounts and passwords is part of the process of setting and agreeing on boundaries.
> 
> Most agree that having firm boundaries in a marriage is essential, but somehow privacy with emails and cell phones is controversial. Boundaries are just like open accounts and passwords. If a cheater wants to cheat, a boundary isn't going to stop them. What I'm talking about are agreements to help keep good, well-intentioned married people from slipping up and eventually finding themselves involved with somebody else. I'm not talking about cheaters who want to cheat.
> 
> ...


Well said Cubby - I understand your point. We just differ on where our boundaries are - which is ok, people are different. Agreeing on having your own accounts and passwords are also part of the process of setting and agreeing on boundaries. It's just in this case the boundaries are different.


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## BridgeOfHeartaches (Feb 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> My husband is an extension of me, and I of him.
> 
> I happen to disagree with this statement. Your husband is NOT an extension of you. He is his own person, with his own will, his own thoughts and his own interests. Not even the chidren you bear can be claimed as an extension of you - once they are out of your womb, they become a separate, individual beings. He is with you because he chose to be, but don't forget you don't own him...restricting your sense of selves and viewing him as your extension and yourself as an extension of him is not healthy for the relationship.
> 
> ...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

BridgeOfHeartaches said:


> I happen to disagree with this statement. Your husband is NOT an extension of you. He is his own person, with his own will, his own thoughts and his own interests. Not even the chidren you bear can be claimed as an extension of you - once they are out of your womb, they become a separate, individual beings. He is with you because he chose to be, but don't forget you don't own him...restricting your sense of selves and viewing him as your extension and yourself as an extension of him is not healthy for the relationship.
> 
> On the matter of privacy : each spouse is entitled to privacy and his own passwords. If they want to share it, then fine, but it should not be demanded. Unless there is a suspicion of infidelity. If one spouse expresses concern about a particular relationship of their SO's, then they should be given access to all communication with that person. Refusing to do so indicates there is something to hide, for why would one let their spouse squirm and worry over nothing ? Also, in the aftermath of an affair, a BS should be offered complete transparency in order to build back the trust.
> 
> Privacy, like anything else in the marriage should be a compromise. It's all about maintaining a healthy balance.


You can disagree all you like. This is how WE view ourselves. Who are you to tell me what does and does not work in MY marriage? The only people who matter in the equation are my husband and me. How we view ourselves, in relation to our marriage is exactly that...our views. It may not be healthy in YOUR marriage, but that certainly does not give you the right to say it is unhealthy in ALL marriages. He has his interests, I have mine. But when it comes to confidences, I keep nothing from him and he keeps nothing from me... no matter who is sharing the information. This is what I mean by an extension of each other. So, respectfully, it may not be healthy for YOUR marriage, but it works for mine.


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## stuck in los angeles (Feb 15, 2013)

aquajay said:


> Hey, so should a husband and wife share passwords to Facebook/email/cell phones/etc.?


Absolutely! If you want your marriage to survive.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

I would have no problem giving hubby any password if he wanted to look into my emails. I don't use FB. He does and uses it in front of me so I can see who he's talking with. Same goes with the phone. If my gut made me suspect anything, I would surely ask him to see the phone or the email content. But if you need to do it constantly, if the lack of trust makes you do the work of an FBI agent or private detective...then there is hardly any marriage left.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I have said before that I think everyone needs some form of privacy. If for no other reason that the sake of having their own privacy. It doesn't have to mean they are hiding something, just the fact that they can have something that is their own.


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## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

So, I just saw a counsellor today and discussed my situation in great detail. She says a partner outside of marriage can have friendships and they are none of the other's business. Also that if there is no access to password protected things, that is the way it should be. She basically said each person is their own and entitled to conduct their life without having to share every square inch.

Wow. I don't think I agree! Especially because of the situation my husband has put me in, as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. 

We haven't talked about it yet and I have no idea how to ask for confirmation that he isn't maintaining an emotionally connected friendship outside of our marriage. 

If he doesn't offer to show me his phone or facebook, then am I supposed to just take his word? From the guy who lied to me about chatting to another woman in the first place?

How can I move on when I feel like I can't trust him 100%? What reassurance is safe to ask him for? What do you think?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Aquajay, get a new counsellor. Each and every one of the relationships that you and your husband have can have an impact on your marriage. 

Let me guess, your counsellor is 
1. a woman
2. 35 or under
3. single whether divorced or never married.

I remember when I was looking for a counsellor during my separation, a friend accused me of looking for one who would agree with me. Oh really, I said, should I specifically look for one who will disagree with me?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

aquajay said:


> So, I just saw a counsellor today and discussed my situation in great detail. She says a partner outside of marriage can have friendships and they are none of the other's business. Also that if there is no access to password protected things, that is the way it should be. She basically said each person is their own and entitled to conduct their life without having to share every square inch.
> 
> Wow. I don't think I agree! Especially because of the situation my husband has put me in, as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread.
> 
> ...


She is correct with respect to your husband, but completely wrong with respect to you and your marriage.

Your husband can chose to have friends you don't know about and hide things. You can't make him do anything.

You can chose to say that is not acceptable for you and your marriage. Your boundary (and that is absolutely what this is) is just as valid is his (or the one your counsellor through out). So to say you are wrong is nuts.

Any reassurance that you needs is reasonable. That includes no opposite sex friends and transparency. If he will not do that, that tells you a lot.


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Wow, what is going on here that is so difficult to understand?

When you marry, you become ONE with your spouse. That means:

You are no longer an individual, you are part of something greater than yourself. Your marriage "contract" makes you part of a partnership, not two individuals that happen to share space and genital organs.

As a member of a partnership, YOU GAVE UP THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY with the exception of performing bodily functions (IE using the toilet).

The problem with privacy is that it breeds secrecy. If you think that's not the case, you need look no further then members of Congress. They do stuff in private all the time and most of it is illegal. 

It is really easy to give into temptation, especially in a weak moment when you know no one is watching. Just knowing that someone may be watching you will make you think twice before you respond to that facebook message from an old flame. 

For you pro-privacy folks out there I will see you in Coping With Infidelity.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> I would have no problem giving hubby any password if he wanted to look into my emails. I don't use FB. He does and uses it in front of me so I can see who he's talking with. Same goes with the phone. If my gut made me suspect anything, I would surely ask him to see the phone or the email content. But if you need to do it constantly, if the lack of trust makes you do the work of an FBI agent or private detective...then there is hardly any marriage left.


Agree. My wife has all my passwords, access to my phone, opens all the mail. I have no issues at all with her taking a look. But I don't want to feel as soon as I am out of the room my wife is investigating me. I also don't want to talk about a article I read on barstoolsports that she saw I read. If you want to snoop go right ahead but I don't want to feel like I am a child who needs monitoring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

There's privacy, and then there's hiding stuff. I've always believed that every person--even those who are married--have a right to their privacy. What they do with that privacy is what gets people into trouble.

For example, once every week or two I just need to get out of the house by myself for a while in the evening. If I say I'm going to Starbuck's to write and relax for a while by myself, my wife has no problem letting me go for the evening, because she knows that I'm sometimes I just need to get away to catch my breath, and if I don't I'm much more likely to sour the rest of the evening. She trusts that I'm not going to take advantage of my time alone. On the other hand, if I'm being circumspect in my plans for the evening, she has every right to call me on it.

Long story short: A little space is good for a marriage. It helps a person keep a sense of identity for himself/herself.

On the other hand, if I found my wife snooping around my phone or computer without at least letting me know that she was doing it, I'd be more likely to password protect everything not because I'm hiding anything but because I feel that's really disrespectful.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

aquajay said:


> So, I just saw a counsellor today and discussed my situation in great detail. She says a partner outside of marriage can have friendships and they are none of the other's business. Also that if there is no access to password protected things, that is the way it should be. She basically said each person is their own and entitled to conduct their life without having to share every square inch.
> 
> Wow. I don't think I agree! Especially because of the situation my husband has put me in, as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread.
> 
> ...


You have moron for a counselor. All counselors need to be told when their advice is goofy. For example, if what you (counselor) say is true then I just need to divorce him because he is keeping secrets from me about his lady friend. I can only see one reason for that.

Dr, Harley investigated why married couples that got marriage counseling divorced at the same rate as those that did not go to counseling. What he found is supposedly the anchor he has built his practice and written his books about.

Have you read NOT JUST FRIENDS, HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS AND LOVE BUSTERS.

As a counterpoint to your counselor, and I use that term loosely, a conselor I heard on a radio talk show says a moral family doesn't need passwords that everyone doesn't share, children included. I personally believe adults have things they should keep from their children but not each other. If you keep secrets from each other then no, you are a pair not one.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to read the books I mentioned. I assume he is still gone.

Get a new do.

Some new makeup.

Work out , at a gym preferably.

Look into some hobbies you have been wanting to do.

Not talk to him until he agrees to be transparent.

Have a VAR ready to go. 

Do the 180 until he is ready to commit to the marriage. The 180 is deigned to help you separate your self from him. He did not leave a marriage because you were nosey.

here is a link: The Healing Heart: The 180

If you are not willing to loose yu marriage you will not be able to save it. Though at this point it is obvious he is cheating. The other possibility is that he is just damaged goods.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Long story short: A little space is good for a marriage. It helps a person keep a sense of identity for himself/herself.


I agree with this.I don't think its any more healthy to completley lose your identity in your spouse be joined at the hip breathing down each others necks than it is to be secretive and try and hide things.But if you aren't trying to "hide something" or be "secretive" it can feel invasive to not have any "privacy" at all.If your spouse wants to know every word you breath to anyone else and every move you make that's unnatractive because it reeks of neediness and insecurity.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

gbrad said:


> I have said before that I think everyone needs some form of privacy. If for no other reason that the sake of having their own privacy. It doesn't have to mean they are hiding something, just the fact that they can have something that is their own.


I agree that everyone should have some form of privacy. In a marriage, that form of privacy is called a bathroom.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Cubby said:


> I agree that everyone should have some form of privacy. In a marriage, that form of privacy is called a bathroom.



Thats not fair we are one person now.I should get to experience and observe me ooops I mean you going pee pee and poo poo.Why would you want to "hide " that from me?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Thats not fair we are one person now.I should get to experience and observe me ooops I mean you going pee pee and poo poo.Why would you want to "hide " that from me?


all I need to do is listen from the other side of the door and sometimes sniff to know what my fiance is doing. That's knowledge enough for me. How about you?


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Cubby said:


> I agree that everyone should have some form of privacy. In a marriage, that form of privacy is called a bathroom.


Which is why, with 5 minor children still in the house, I take a good book or the newspaper with me.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I agree with this.I don't think its any more healthy to completley lose your identity in your spouse be joined at the hip breathing down each others necks than it is to be secretive and try and hide things.But if you aren't trying to "hide something" or be "secretive" it can feel invasive to not have any "privacy" at all.If your spouse wants to know every word you breath to anyone else and every move you make that's unnatractive because it reeks of neediness and insecurity.


In my marriage, I'm an open book with my wife. She's an open book with me. We don't breathe down each other's necks. We both don't creep around the house looking for stuff. She doesn't read my emails, or look through my phone. But she knows she can if she wants to. 

We've had discussions on privacy. We have a place where passwords are written down. I frequently leave my computer on with emails showing. I don't have anything to hide. Yet she doesn't want to know everything I say to someone else. 

It's as if those who feel it's so important to have privacy in a marriage think that those who feel it should be open are in constant spy-mode and are documenting every moment of their spouse.

I still haven't seen a compelling argument advocating privacy in a marriage. Stuff like "being your own person" just doesn't cut it. I'm an open book and I'm definitely my own person. I'm my own person with specific interests and hobbies who doesn't have anything to hide from my wife. 

Can someone please tell me what's so important to hide from their spouse?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> In my marriage, I'm an open book with my wife. She's an open book with me. We don't breathe down each other's necks. We both don't creep around the house looking for stuff. She doesn't read my emails, or look through my phone. But she knows she can if she wants to.


Knowing you can and not doing it is fine.The fact you know the other isn't doing it is privacy by the way.YOU GIVE each other privacy.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Stuff like "being your own person" just doesn't cut it.


IMHO stuff like NOT being your own person doesn't "cut it".I don't want to be married to someone that isn't his own person but HE IS me instead..I would have just married myself if I wanted that.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Knowing you can and not doing it is fine.The fact you know the other isn't doing it is privacy by the way.YOU GIVE each other privacy.



I don't think of it in terms of privacy. But I suppose you can put it that way. I have my interests, she has hers, many times our interests intersect and we do a lot together. Like I said before, I haven't seen where knowing each others passwords and open access is detrimental to a marriage.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I don't think anyone disagreed with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> IMHO stuff like NOT being your own person doesn't "cut it".I don't want to be married to someone that isn't his own person but HE IS me instead..I would have just married myself if I wanted that.


Wow, you knocked the snot out of that strawman.

Open access to emails and phone does not equal married people being the same person.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

the problem that I have here is the thought that the friends that my husband keeps has nothing to do with me. Which is grossly untrue. How he carries on his relationships with other people will always impact on me. How much time he spends away from me. Whether his friends like me/ tolerate me / or simply choose to treat me with open contempt.

Not to mention since I share finances with my husband, how much money he spend with his friends can impact on me/ us as well.

I don't really understand how a counsellor say that.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Married in VA said:


> Wow, what is going on here that is so difficult to understand?
> 
> When you marry, you become ONE with your spouse. That means:
> 
> ...


What's going on here is that people are disagreeing with you. Your "universal truth" is not as universal as you would like it to be. 

When I paid for my marriage license, it didn't come with a "no privacy" clause. Those details were left up to me and my spouse to negotiate.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Cubby said:


> Wow, you knocked the snot out of that strawman.
> 
> Open access to emails and phone does not equal married people being the same person.



Sorry I was "meshing" the idea that we marry and are no longer individuals..I don't think you said that..I "incorporated"..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> the problem that I have here is the thought that the friends that my husband keeps has nothing to do with me. Which is grossly untrue. How he carries on his relationships with other people will always impact on me. How much time he spends away from me. Whether his friends like me/ tolerate me / or simply choose to treat me with open contempt.
> 
> Not to mention since I share finances with my husband, how much money he spend with his friends can impact on me/ us as well.
> 
> I don't really understand how a counsellor say that.


NOTHING we do has "nothing to do" with our spouse after we marry.If you are "comingling" every thing you do has some affect on the other..But whats the point after stating that?


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Cubby said:


> I agree that everyone should have some form of privacy. In a marriage, that form of privacy is called a bathroom.


:rofl:
knock, knock : "Honey, are you done ? Can I come in ??"
Sometimes, not even in the bathroom you have privacy...


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> :rofl:
> knock, knock : "Honey, are you done ? Can I come in ??"
> Sometimes, not even in the bathroom you have privacy...


Do you need me to "scrub your back"???

Whats that smell????


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> :rofl:
> knock, knock : "Honey, are you done ? Can I come in ??"
> Sometimes, not even in the bathroom you have privacy...


"Sure, as long as you don't value your lungs". Doesn't happen so much any more.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Cletus said:


> "Sure, as long as you don't value your lungs". Doesn't happen so much any more.


What about kidneys liver and brain? Or is that just what we are cooking for dinner honey?


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

I hated when he used to do this !! ) ) 
It took me a few months to make him loose this habit..the bathroom is the one damn place I need some privacy..lol


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> I hated when he used to do this !! ) )
> It took me a few months to make him loose this habit..the bathroom is the one damn place I need some privacy..lol


WHY are you being so "secretive" ????


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Not secretive...pudic. About the private "deeds", beauty operations, shaving...I'd rather not have company, please ) He used to do it, first innocenly then just to tease me about it


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## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

chapparal said:


> You need to read the books I mentioned. I assume he is still gone.
> 
> Get a new do.
> 
> ...


Yes, he did come home. He gave me a letter with all of his thoughts/feelings and it was 99.9% negative, left open for interpretation and I am not sure how to respond to it. Basically, he is frustrated with the "state" of our relationship and it stems from several ongoing issues, which I understand for the most part. I am working on writing my reply and want to make sure it is detailed, much like his was.

I know that if he has one foot out the door then there's not much I can do. I just can't help but to think that he did LIE to me about his new friendship with this other woman and I don't know why a man would do something that would ulimately compromise the trust between husband and wife in a marriage.

I really want to find a way to get past his latest behaviours and work through this.

How can I get him to understand where I'm coming from? I wonder what I should ask him for? How do I ask for resolution?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

aquajay- You should post your situation in the Coping with Infidelity section. You're not getting many responses here.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

I am surprised by the number of people on here who seem to demand total access to every aspect of their partners lives.

My wife (and my teenage kids) know the PIN for my phone just in case they need to use it but my computer password and site logons are not shared. 

In the same way I would not open wife a letter addressed to my wife (unless she asked me to) and I ask her to give me the same privacy (When working away from home I will often ask her to look out for letters from the mortgage company etc and ring me / read it to me) but I would not expect to have my mail vetted by her (or anyone else) I had enough of that in the military.

We do not hide big things from each other (we both have log ons to the bank accounts etc) but I do like to be able to suprise her with a secret trip to a show and / or night at a hotel now that the kids are old enough to be left to look after themselves (g17, g16, b13, b8, b2).


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## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

Well, it's been a couple of months since I started this thread. 

My hubby has been more secretive, abraisive and more distant. He has been working more, away from home more and less interested in our marriage. He has been hiding his phone, even though he changed his password, and not convinced me that nothing happened or is happening. He denies it, but hasn't provided the reassurance I need to move on. 

He has deleted some "friends" from facebook and has now added me back as a friend, cuz he deleted me before. 

He is away at another work conference for a few days and I have no idea who will all be there. We fought this morning and he says he'll have to let me know when it fits to spend time with me and he'll have to look at his calendar. I feel like he's not making me a priority whatsoever and his heart really isn't in this marriage. 

He's refusing to talk to me about the issues, work on things and is coming up with excuses why he can't spend time with me. I am frustrated to no end and am feeling like I need to ask him to leave. 

I am his 3rd wife and he isn't taking any ownership/responsibility for how things have become. He says it's up to me to be happy and I need to carry on... I just can't pretend that nothing has happened. 

He has possibly cheated (EA/PA-which he denies), stolen and lied. I don't know what else to say to him or what to do.

We have a house and a 2 year old that needs us... I have read about doing the 180, but am not sure if that will work or how, given that we have to talk to discuss things daily. I feel that if I try it, it will only give him what he's asking for...

Any suggestions?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

The 180 is for YOU, HOT him. The point is to do the necessary things, like discussing things that need to be done for your child. But don't do the EXTRAS you are/may currently be doing. You only do what is NECESSARY as far as communication with him. And you implement changes in YOURSELF, to make YOU feel better about YOURSELF. It isn't meant to be a marriage fix... it is meant to be a PERSONAL fix... to fix you and you alone. Start it out, and stick with it. Do the things on the list that apply to you/are possible for you to do. Not everyone does everything on that list. Give it a shot. At this point you have nothing to lose...especially when your husband basically said he'd PENCIL YOU IN!?!?!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Not sure what more you require to end this marriage. Your husband has told you your marriage stinks and has expressed no desire to work on it. He has all the power here because you chase him while he treats you like [email protected] He's still home because either he's not sure if things are going to work with his gf or he's of the "cheaper to keep her" mentality. He's not interested in being married to you, so have some self respect and end it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> The 180 is for YOU, HOT him. The point is to do the necessary things, like discussing things that need to be done for your child. But don't do the EXTRAS you are/may currently be doing. You only do what is NECESSARY as far as communication with him. And you implement changes in YOURSELF, to make YOU feel better about YOURSELF. It isn't meant to be a marriage fix... it is meant to be a PERSONAL fix... to fix you and you alone. Start it out, and stick with it. Do the things on the list that apply to you/are possible for you to do. Not everyone does everything on that list. Give it a shot. At this point you have nothing to lose...especially when your husband basically said he'd PENCIL YOU IN!?!?!


THIS, Really THIS.

If you would only do this alone, you will save your life, be it with him, or without him.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

When a couple takes vows---they become one, to have and to hold till death do us part----there is no privacy in those vows----you take care of each other, you have each others back

If a spouse wants privacy---they are hiding something from the mge----as was said above---you want privacy, STAY SINGLE

Another poster somewhere along the line, demanded privacy, cuz she wanted to talk about her h---to her GF---fine talk all you want---but on an open phone, that your H, can read----if you got problems with your H---YOU SHOULD BE TALKING TO/WORKING THEM OUT WITH YOUR H---not gossiping about them with your GF, who in a weak/drunken moment, will blab them to someone else---so that your mge's, dirty wash is all over town

As to this OP's H---you need to tell him either, act like a proper H----or D goes in the table-------as things are now---he has no clue, as to what mge, is even all about-----

Either wake him up, or walk away----stop torturing yourself, and living in a miserable mge, with a jerk.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

aquajay said:


> Well, it's been a couple of months since I started this thread.
> 
> My hubby has been more secretive, abraisive and more distant. He has been working more, away from home more and less interested in our marriage. He has been hiding his phone, even though he changed his password, and not convinced me that nothing happened or is happening. He denies it, but hasn't provided the reassurance I need to move on.
> 
> ...


Privacy/openness, these are negotiated qualities that both partners agree to. You can't expect to get something someone hasn't agreed to give. Everyone defines their own marriage in terms that meet their needs. What works for me or others here may not work for you. just because I say you have a right to privacy in your marriage doesn't mean it's true for you, or for anyone else.

How have you been dealing with this these last two months? have you been chasing him, asking questions, demanding openness?

You have said you sensed he was having an affair. Youve been cut out of his life, he has not responded. What you haven't said is how are you dealing with him.

How did you ask to spend time with him, when he mentioned he might be able to pencil you in? How did you respond to that?

Would you classify yourself as an emotional needy person? Do you think he sees you as an emotional needy person? You are not telling the full story here.


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## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> How have you been dealing with this these last two months? have you been chasing him, asking questions, demanding openness?
> 
> You have said you sensed he was having an affair. Youve been cut out of his life, he has not responded. What you haven't said is how are you dealing with him.
> 
> ...


I have been keeping the peace and taking each day as it comes. We have a young child and house together that I just cannot walk away from. 

I don't know how else to handle the situation or "treat" him. It sucks that he isn't making me or our marriage a priority and he's acting the way he is. 

I'm not an emotionally needy person... he's the one who constantly craves the emotional stuff... I'm the self-assured, independant one.

I try to talk when the opportunity presents itself, and am not nagging him. I guess it could look like I'm letting him get away with stuff. We have tried talking time after time and he just ends up walking away frustrated and I'm left feeling miscommunicated and disrepected.

I don't know how to demand/expect change. I guess I'm realizing that this life just might not be something he wants anymore...


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Anon Pink---why get married if the partners are not completely open to each other in ALL things---what is YOUR definition of mge------cuz IN A MGE---everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is open-----otherwise----you DO NOT HAVE A MGE, and why even be in a mge---if you want secrets---cuz that is what F'ing privacy is---its your SECRETS-----you want secrets----STAY SINGLE


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Aqua---you get change by putting D on the table, you get change by playing hardball----you are not gonna get change from this guy by being nice to him, or working with him, cuz he is a bully, who wants what he wants, and that is the way he wants it-----with him---you fight him by being hardline, and make him look at the one drastic change he may not wanna face----THE END OF THE MGE.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

jnj express said:


> Hey Anon Pink---why get married if the partners are not completely open to each other in ALL things---what is YOUR definition of mge------cuz IN A MGE---everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is open-----otherwise----you DO NOT HAVE A MGE, and why even be in a mge---if you want secrets---cuz that is what F'ing privacy is---its your SECRETS-----you want secrets----STAY SINGLE


Yikes JNJ, looks like you have a raw nerve. Not my problem.

Ive explained this in other threads in greater detail than I will bother with here. For what it's worth...

I have several life long friends. But 3 are my bestest bestest! We have been through a lot of stuff, all 3 of us are cancer survivors, all 3 of us have an alcoholic parent, and all 3 of us have daughters. We have been friends since we were 12! They supported me through some horrendously difficult times, when my marriage was complete garbage and I had zero support from H, THEY were there! When I was ready to check myself into a psych ward because I could not take one single more heartache, THEY were there! When I was in ICU one flew in from several states away, the other drove 4 hours to my bed side.

I understand that most people DONT have friendships this lasting and this deep. They make movies out of this kind of friendship... Secrets of the Ya Ya Sisterhood.

As much as I love my H, if he insisted I choose him or my friends... Id go with the girls. My H is a smart man though and wouldn't even entertain the thought of making me choose.

ETA: What they tell me stays with me. What I tell them stays with them. Thats the way we work.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Anon------You didn't hit a raw nerve----I just don't agree with your ideas/definition of what a mge is

Nowhere have I said one word, about whether a spouse can have lifelong friends, or not---specially if they are same sex, or if opposite sex---they themselves are married

What I said was---you do not get to have privacy---or stated another way---you do not get to keep secrets----

-talk all you want to your lifelong friends----JUST TELL YOUR H ABOUT THE CONVERSATION---its just that simple------


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

aquajay said:


> What do you think? Also, how should I be reacting to him now? I don't know what to say or do.


Well it's too late to go undercover and get proof and then expose to OW's partner but if you want to reconcile then you need to be doing 180. It has a way of making people wake up and realize what they are losing.


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## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

Wow, so I just found out that he has now turned to drugs! I found small baggie a few weeks ago and he said it was for his buddy's stag coming up... and now after being out of town at another work conference, I found the same baggie empty with a straw...

I asked him about it, he lied about it, then told me the truth... or what he says is the truth. I just don't believe he's being 100% honest about it. 

We chatted for quite a while last night and he admits he has in essence "given up" and figured why not do something else I shouldn't be... cuz she doesn't care. His attitude sucks and I told him that if he continues to make decisions by himself for himself that I'd have to find someone else.

We have a counselling appointment coming up and he's going to give it a shot. 

Now I feel like rather than me telling him he's screwed up big time, I'm waiting for him to decide if he wants this life! OOPS. 

Now what should I do? I still don't have all the answers to my questions and don't want to put up with his BS. 

What do you think?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Why are you waiting for HIM to decide anything?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

jnj express said:


> -talk all you want to your lifelong friends----JUST TELL YOUR H ABOUT THE CONVERSATION---its just that simple------


We're going to have to agree to disagree. I couldn't live in the kind of relationship YOU think all marriages should be and yet, here I am NOT telling you that YOU are wrong. 

OP, it doesn't sound like you have the same idea about a marriage as your H. In fact, he seems to be giving you all kinds of signals he doesn't really want to BE married. Maybe it's time to pull the plug?


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## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> OP, it doesn't sound like you have the same idea about a marriage as your H. In fact, he seems to be giving you all kinds of signals he doesn't really want to BE married. Maybe it's time to pull the plug?


Well, last night I told my hubby that I was not willing to go another day dealing with his lies, secrecy and BS. In several of our conversations I have told him this, so I reiterated and summarized the bits and pieces... and he was receptive to what I had to say. :smthumbup: 

I told him I expect him to cut out the crap, be honest and transparent without secrets, passwords, etc. He apologizes for doing things to compromise the trust and I do believe he is feeling bad about his decisions, now realizing and understanding how he has made me feel.

He said he gets what I'm saying and what I'm asking for and even summarized it back to me. There has been no action and he said those are valid points to bring up in counselling. I feel like he's buying more time/stalling and still not addressing the issue. I'm feeling like he just let me vent... and that the issue hasn't been addressed. He just heard what I had to say...

How do I demand the change? I have already, indirectly given an ultimatum. 

How do I ask him to resolve this here and now? These issues have been stagnant for 3 months now!

We have our first counselling appointment in 4 days and it is only an hour session... there's no way to fit everything in.


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## aquajay (Feb 13, 2013)

waiwera said:


> People only hide things IF they have something to hide.
> Many red flags here.
> 
> If this woman WAS just a friend there would be no secrets, no lies...there would be no need.
> ...


So, the other day we had it out... I have been sick of wondering and being lied to. 

He started getting emotional, and of course, was frustrated... so I basically said enough of the BS, it's up to him to fix this to keep our family together. 

The next day he posted a list of all his passwords and usernames. I didn't engage or acknowledge that I saw the list in the entrance to the kitchen. 

So, now it makes me feel that he "cleared up" whatever he was hiding, if anything? 

We just went to our first counselling session the other day and the counsellor asked us why we are still together after everything. He asked him if he realizes that he has done things to jeopardize our marriage... seems like he's having a wake-up call now... I'm on a road trip to visit my family and he's having a difficult time now that my daughter and I aren't there...

The plan of action is that we will meet with our counsellor separately, then together. I think he wants to get a better picture of what's going on...

What do you think? How would/did you make a decision to stay/leave your spouse?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

aquajay said:


> So, the other day we had it out... I have been sick of wondering and being lied to.
> 
> He started getting emotional, and of course, was frustrated... so I basically said enough of the BS, it's up to him to fix this to keep our family together.
> 
> ...


It all depends on what he was hiding which we don't know. At least you've asserted yourself and snapped him out of feeling entitled to do what ever he wants to. A lot depends on what MC finds out and what your hubby comes clean with and if you believe him. Good job so far.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

aquajay said:


> So, the other day we had it out... I have been sick of wondering and being lied to.
> 
> He started getting emotional, and of course, was frustrated... so I basically said enough of the BS, it's up to him to fix this to keep our family together.
> 
> ...


Give it some time to work out. I agree that your marriage is in serious trouble, but it's not going to get better over night. Work with your counselor to identify non-negotiable demands and expectations, then present them to your H. Work with your counselor to learn how you can meet his needs, he can meet your needs, and you both work toward a better relationship. Once you two begin this, you will have a better idea if fixing is even possible.

I read a book, Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. After reading that book, according to the book, I would have been happier if I left the marriage. The majority of the questions the author poses had my answers in the negative. But the one question she didn't ask was, Do you have the balls to leave. I am a coward, and leaving would have placed hardships on both of us, not to mention our kids and my sister who is dependent on me and lives with us. Knowing this I decided that I had to throw my whole self into this marriage to make it work. I could not sit on the fence any longer.

If it weren't for my sister and other financial considerations, I would have left.


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