# Motivating gender-roles wife to get a job



## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

*Motivating wife to get a job*

Despite my wife's several promises that she would get a job, it has long since become apparent that she simply refuses. She doesn't come right out and say she refuses, but the way she ignores my reminders of her promises sends the message. I'd appreciate any tips for motivating her. We have one child in high school, so she can certainly hold at least a part-time. There are a few places within walking distance where she could get a really cushy job, but for her insistence that she as the woman is entitled to be fully provided for. I pointed out all the women we see who are working outside the home, and her reflexive answer was that they weren't real women. I was offended on working women's behalf, but my wife is resolute. Finances often get tight and are tight right now, but in her mind she has 0% responsibility for any finances at all and I have 110%.

Before we moved in together before marriage, I initiated "the talk" with her about expectations. One of my expectations was that I wanted a wife who worked outside of the home (if only part-time) and contributed to the finances. I told her that my chosen career didn't hold abundant prospects for me to be the sole breadwinner, and that I didn't aspire to be a sole breadwinner. I assured her that I would likewise contribute to the household chores. She said it was okay and that she liked her job, but I suggested she think it over for a few days and also think about any expectations she might have for me. When I brought it up again a few days later, she still said she was fine with working outside of the home. _This_ was the time for her to speak up about her expectations, but that isn't what happened. She kept her job while we were living together, but started fishing about quitting once we got married. I'm sure you get the point. We eventually had a blow-up about it. I told her that although I wouldn't spend everyday harping on it, my expectation would never fade in the slightest. I have no qualms about telling her that we can't afford something because she doesn't work. If she drops a hint about the nice house our son's friend lives in, she'll immediately be reminded that both of the friend's parents work. She'll retreat for a while until the heat dissipates, but she refuses to get a job.

Yes, I often do have frustration in my voice when this comes up. She knew when the words were coming out of her mouth that she had no intention of working. Under the circumstances, she can't complain that I'm not standing there with roses and chocolate while asking her if it would be too much for her to reconsider.

So like I said, I'd appreciate any tips you might have about getting through to somebody who insists that she's entitled to be completely financially provided for regardless of any promises she made.

P.S. Don't bother trying to sell/shame me about the value a full-time homemaker adds. It isn't that way in my situation.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Really the only thing you can do is decide how you're going to respond to the situation.

Seperate bank accounts/credit cards/bills. 
Seperate homes.
Legal seperation.
Divorce.

Don't argue about it anymore. I wouldn't even bring it up.

Decide what you're going to do for yourself, and stick to it.


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## Butterfly_Princess (Nov 17, 2019)

My husband works 40 hours a week. I work 30 hours a week, sometimes 50 hours and also holidays. We make it work. 
Run away while you still can. No shame on that.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Well....it's been a few years now, hasn't it? Why should she work? You've made it this far just fine. 

The others are right. You know you can't make her get a job. You can't wish her into it. You CAN tighten up the budget to where if she wants new socks, she'll have to get a job. 

You can only pretty much decide how you will handle it going forward. 

1. You make a change: separation, divorce, separation of the bank account...something that really changes the dynamic
2. You don't make a change: keep wondering when she is going to get a job

That is pretty much the choices.


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## Adam Kol (Jul 19, 2019)

I can hear your frustration, maybe even anger coming through. I understand: you felt like you were clear about your expectations, and now your wife is being, from your vantage point, totally unreasonable. On top of that, she promised more than once to get a job, and yet she has not fulfilled those promises.

That's a hard spot to be in. It sounds like it has impacted not only your lifestyles but also your trust and closeness.

The other side of this is that, to be blunt, you've been acting like a jerk. I know you're frustrated, and I know she hasn't shown up how you'd like her to; but, you've been taking it out on her in all sorts of not-very-kind ways. You've got to clean up your act with that. That doesn't mean ignoring her lack of contribution or her unfulfilled promises. 

Rather, if you actually want to improve the relationship, then you'll want to start by listening to her and by looking at your role in things. For example, you may have let an unworkable dynamic go on for a long time. You may have become passive-aggressive rather than creating a space for healthy conversations about your values and overall financial situation.

You won't motivate her by forcing her or shaming her. The best way to proceed is to understand where she's coming from. There's probably a whole lot there around gender roles. It probably reflects a lot about how she was raised, what she did or didn't experience, and what she needs to feel valued. (That's the kind of thing that people have conflated at a subconscious level, i.e. if my husband doesn't take complete care of me --> he doesn't care about me --> I'm not valued --> I'm worthless. It's not rational, but then again, humans aren't rational.) 

Once you've heard her out, share where you're coming from. Share it nonviolently, owning your own feelings. Continue to acknowledge how you could have handled things differently and earlier (i.e. discussing this in a healthy way and sooner).

Finally, explore opportunities for compromise. If you've done that authentically and in earnest, then you should have the information you need to decide how to move forward, whether or not it's with her.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You have not actually done anything about it except talk and complain. She knows your not going to pull the plug so she has no motivation to do anything different.

You can talk talk talk and want want want all you like but in the end .....you either do something about it or you don't. So far you choose don't.


My wife keeps talking about quitting even though she just began working. I tell her that I'm quitting as soon as she does ..... and she knows I'm not kidding.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Some men have no issues about their wives not working outside the home. Presumably she has done the majority of the child rearing and running of the home all these years? Also you have managed financially it seems? 

Nagging her and pressuring her wont work. Nor will stopping her having any money. When you are married all money is both of yours. You either need to decide that you will carry on loving her as you wife, or you don't. Some women thrive in the home, being a mum, wife and home maker. Others prefer to go out to do paid work. Maybe she is one of the former. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

It's already be said from the crash of 2008, if there was ever a need for more families to have both parents working it was then. But you may never have what you thought. That's including your wife to work, but most jods are offer to be done on line. So sit with her after you both have calmed down , let her look through the newspaper or other on line services, sign up on line. See what happens. 

Also to your point of demanding that no one tell you anything of gender roles, puts me to the point that Your trying to control everything. Get off that kick, and mature people who post here. Expect and get both sides of the coin but it's only up to you to accept it or not.

Quit trying to be so controlling.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

One of my dearest friends has gone through all kinds of hell with her husband - chemical addiction, pornography, and more recently, (within the past couple of years), he refused to work.

We've had long discussions about his behavior, and I admire her so much for sticking with him. I don't know all the details of her process, but she got to the point where she took him and dropped him off at a homeless shelter.

I don't think he was allowed to stay there for long, and I'm not sure where he went after that - maybe his parents house? But, he did get to the point where he chose to go back to work. He wanted to come home.

He's now doing so much better. He's done a great job, and his boss, who's had some health issues, put him charge. So now he feels a sense of purpose and pride.

But it took my friend doing some pretty drastic things. 

Prior to taking him to the shelter, she moved out for awhile and lived with her parents and with friends. I think she did that for a couple of years.

If you're going to save your marriage, it's going to take getting creative and making hard choices. And it's basically on you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I suggest you carefully measure out the monthly income and put aside some in a separate account. Ensure every last penny is accounted for. No extras for treats, etc. If she wants that, she needs to earn it.
She obviously does not appreciate the value of money nor hard-work. AND stop helping her around the house. Tell her if she won't work you wont work at home, it goes both ways.
Take action.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

When you talked about this before getting married, do you think she *really* agreed and has changed her mind, or she never had any intentions.

Does she do all the work around the house in return for your working outside? That can be a lot of work and save a lot of money.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> My wife keeps talking about quitting even though she just began working. I tell her that I'm quitting as soon as she does ..... and she knows I'm not kidding.


I didn't post my situation lightly, but decided to do so because I'm on the edge of doing something like quitting my job.



Diana7 said:


> Some men have no issues about their wives not working outside the home. Presumably she has done the majority of the child rearing and running of the home all these years? Also you have managed financially it seems?
> 
> Nagging her and pressuring her wont work. Nor will stopping her having any money. When you are married all money is both of yours. You either need to decide that you will carry on loving her as you wife, or you don't. Some women thrive in the home, being a mum, wife and home maker. Others prefer to go out to do paid work. Maybe she is one of the former. Nothing wrong with that.


What other men have no issues with is irrelevant, because I made it crystal clear that I'm not one of those men.

When she made it clear that she wasn't going to get a job, I said that I would adjust my commitment to household chores accordingly. Of course, I'm still all in with child rearing. 

We're not getting along fine financially. It has been a struggle. 

I fully agree that there's nothing wrong with a woman wanting to be at home, _as long as that is made clear from the outset_. Unless both people come from a parochial community where women being housewives is a given, it can't be assumed these days that the wife staying at home is the default situation. In my case, the opposite was made clear and agreed to at the outset.



Tilted 1 said:


> Also to your point of demanding that no one tell you anything of gender roles, puts me to the point that Your trying to control everything.


Not at all. I had no doubt that some traditionalists would weigh in, so I was simply saying in advance that I wasn't receptive to that. We all have deal breakers.



minimalME said:


> but she got to the point where she took him and dropped him off at a homeless shelter.


Wow, that's pretty drastic. But I doubt it would go over as admirably if a husband took his unemployed wife to a homeless shelter.



uhtred said:


> When you talked about this before getting married, do you think she *really* agreed and has changed her mind, or she never had any intentions.
> 
> Does she do all the work around the house in return for your working outside? That can be a lot of work and save a lot of money.


During one argument about it, she flat-out admitted that she never had any intention to follow through with her promise.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Dude quit with all the gender stuff. It’s like you have some kind of hell bent gender role clause tied up in your brain. It isn’t an issue unless you make it one. Traditional or otherwise it is only what you make of it.



And it is already obvious to everyone she has no interest in working.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

Adam Kol said:


> The other side of this is that, to be blunt, you've been acting like a jerk. I know you're frustrated, and I know she hasn't shown up how you'd like her to; but, you've been taking it out on her in all sorts of not-very-kind ways. You've got to clean up your act with that.


Where did you get that from my post?



> Rather, if you actually want to improve the relationship, then you'll want to start by listening to her and by looking at your role in things. For example, you may have let an unworkable dynamic go on for a long time. You may have become passive-aggressive rather than creating a space for healthy conversations about your values and overall financial situation.


I created space for a healthy conversation at the outset and even suggested that she take a few days to be sure she was making the right decision for herself. I was gentle and supportive at the beginning, until it became clear that she never intended to do what she promised. And please don't try to toss it back on me by saying her actions were because I didn't approach her right. If the barometer of my effort is whether she agreed, then that puts me in the position of being responsible for her refusals when the reality could be that she's the bad actor.



> You won't motivate her by forcing her or shaming her. The best way to proceed is to understand where she's coming from. There's probably a whole lot there around gender roles. It probably reflects a lot about how she was raised, what she did or didn't experience, and what she needs to feel valued. (That's the kind of thing that people have conflated at a subconscious level, i.e. if my husband doesn't take complete care of me --> he doesn't care about me --> I'm not valued --> I'm worthless. It's not rational, but then again, humans aren't rational.)


I haven't been forcing her or shaming her, but reiterating that we're struggling and that it's past time for her to start contributing. As it as, I often come home to her playing a computer game or watching a video.



> Share it nonviolently


Are you actually suggesting that I'm violent? Please! I made sure we had an open dialog about expectations. I was supportive when I was still under the impression that she meant what she said, and some time after that. Instead of squeezing her financially until she couldn't take it anymore (which surely would have been construed as me being financially abusive), I was giving in moderation while trying to work through this.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I think your under a hell of a lot of stress. I had tight times when we were a young family as well. It is really difficult to have a good open discussion with your wife under that much stress. It comes off as a blame game. Try to get creative


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I second this. You can't force her to get a job. She isn't being a partner. She simply refuses to work and expects you will completely financially support her. You can't change her, but you can change YOU.

You don't need to stay married to her.

The longer you do stay married to her the more spousal support you are going to have to pay. 



minimalME said:


> Really the only thing you can do is decide how you're going to respond to the situation.
> 
> Seperate bank accounts/credit cards/bills.
> Seperate homes.
> ...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Short of divorce, all you can do is have separate accounts and credit cards. Put your pay in your own, non-joint account. Give her enough money each month to cover necessities she handles, and a bit extra. Pay the bills yourself to be sure she doesn't put that money to other uses. Essentially, force her to live frugally. If necessary, cancel things like cable, downgrade your cell phone plan, possibly sell a second/third car (and save on insurance, etc.). If she has to live without extras, she may be motivated to work. And if doing these things leaves some extra money each month, pay down high cost debt and put some into savings for emergencies. YOU can take charge of finances, short of kicking her out or divorcing (which may be advantageous to her depending on alimony and child support laws where you live). Don't be mean about it, just pragmatic due to tight finances without her contributing. You can still divorce her, but make sure you understand the up-front and on-going costs of doing so.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> Short of divorce, all you can do is have separate accounts and credit cards. Put your pay in your own, non-joint account. Give her enough money each month to cover necessities she handles, and a bit extra. Pay the bills yourself to be sure she doesn't put that money to other uses. Essentially, force her to live frugally. If necessary, cancel things like cable, downgrade your cell phone plan, possibly sell a second/third car (and save on insurance, etc.). If she has to live without extras, she may be motivated to work. And if doing these things leaves some extra money each month, pay down high cost debt and put some into savings for emergencies. YOU can take charge of finances, short of kicking her out or divorcing (which may be advantageous to her depending on alimony and child support laws where you live). Don't be mean about it, just pragmatic due to tight finances without her contributing. You can still divorce her, but make sure you understand the up-front and on-going costs of doing so.


That sounds like a recipe for hidden credit cards. I had a buddy get buried under ....TWICE !!!!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

vincent3 said:


> She never had any intentions of working. During one argument about it, she flat-out admitted it.


Her throwing out there about her beliefs in "gender roles" is just a giant pile of bullcrap she decided to create as an excuse for being a lazy ass. You have no small children at home for her to tend to, and you are struggling financially, so instead of pulling up her big girl panties and pitching in with what NEEDS to be done, she has decided to sit on her butt and play video games while whining about her entitlement. Just doesnt sit well with me at all. To me it shows a lack of respect for you and for your household as a whole. You have gotten some good suggestions from others, from cutting off her cash flow, taking over the finances, or even divorce. I dont envy your position at all.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> That sounds like a recipe for hidden credit cards. I had a buddy get buried under ....TWICE !!!!


That could be a problem. I'd suggest putting a freeze on all new credit/debt. It just takes a call to one of the credit reporting agencies (Equifax, TransUnion, etc.). That won't stop her from trying to open a card, but it will be under her own name and based on her credit. If he refuses to pay for anything she buys on her own cards, it will soon fix that issue - how can she pay for anything with a restricted budget? He may want to research how debt is handled when married, in his state, and see if there are remedies to limit his liability.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Some men have no issues about their wives not working outside the home. Presumably she has done the majority of the child rearing and running of the home all these years? Also you have managed financially it seems?
> 
> Nagging her and pressuring her wont work. Nor will stopping her having any money. When you are married all money is both of yours. You either need to decide that you will carry on loving her as you wife, or you don't. Some women thrive in the home, being a mum, wife and home maker. Others prefer to go out to do paid work. Maybe she is one of the former. Nothing wrong with that.


This^

I have been fortunate to generate enough income to have my W handle child rearing, home care and keeping to a budget. I also realized that I could not do(working/getting ahead) what I do without my W doing what she was doing at home. I think that is something spouses that work outside the home fail to see. Some fail to appreciate it. I don't. But that is me. Anyway, our two are in their 20's. Wife asked if she should work outside the home. I said NOPE. If my W was not doing what needs to be done during the week(food shopping, cleaning, washing, meal planning, pet care, etc) our weekends together doing things other than working or home care would be shot all to hell. However, I said if she feels she would like to work outside the I would support it.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Dude quit with all the gender stuff. It’s like you have some kind of hell bent gender role clause tied up in your brain. It isn’t an issue unless you make it one. Traditional or otherwise it is only what you make of it.


Beliefs about male and female entitlements and obligations are at the heart of this, but you're right that I was over-relying on a term that can easily get shrill. I edited my posts so that term isn't a distraction.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

3Xnocharm said:


> Her throwing out there about her beliefs in "gender roles" is just a giant pile of bullcrap she decided to create as an excuse for being a lazy ass.


She has demonstrated that she does have a real sense of entitlement, but it's intertwined with laziness.

I've thought about tightening the finances, but I believe that could be considered financial abuse. As another poster said, any money I bring in is a marital asset to which she's equally entitled. But the problem isn't so much the spending, We just need more income.

I'll try one more time. I'm going to look up some nearby jobs, talk to her about which she thinks would be a good fit, and encourage her to apply for her own well being. Aside from the money strain, being at home all day isn't doing her any favors. I foresee her trying to pocket all of the money, so getting her to take on a couple of the bills will be another challenge. If she refuses, I'll tell her that we can't afford to stay in our current place (we're due to get the renewal letter soon) and that we'll have to look for a cheaper place. She won't like the prospect of a cheaper place, or of going through a self-service move.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

vincent3 said:


> Beliefs about male and female entitlements and obligations are at the heart of this,.


I'm just being rough on you that's all ...... just cause I have an opinion doesn't mean it is more important than yours. Feel free to use any term you like.

So ..... Anyways ......Female Entitlement. Yes it exist. It just is what it is. People have different view points and beliefs and some stronger than others.

I think in y'all case that she has a strong entitlement to stay home. My wife is the same, but we made it work for us while the kids were young but now they are off in college
and my wife is working.

Pushing her harder and harder to go to work isn't likely going to get you the outcome you want. It is a tough situation.

It's stressful.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Some men have no issues about their wives not working outside the home. Presumably she has done the majority of the child rearing and running of the home all these years? Also you have managed financially it seems?
> 
> Nagging her and pressuring her wont work. Nor will stopping her having any money. When you are married all money is both of yours. You either need to decide that you will carry on loving her as you wife, or you don't. Some women thrive in the home, being a mum, wife and home maker. Others prefer to go out to do paid work. Maybe she is one of the former. *Nothing wrong with that.*


Nothing wrong with that IF both parties agree. 

There is quite a bit wrong, indeed, if it's a unilateral decision.

If the OP came home tomorrow and said, "I want to thrive in the home, being a dad, husband and home maker," and abandoned all responsibility for bringing money into the home, would you say 'Nothing wrong with that?".

Note that OP NEVER agreed to be the only breadwinner. He just didn't push when his wife violated their prior agreement. His wife is now claiming this entitlement, much like a trespasser on your land who isn't evicted soon enough will try to claim "squatters' rights".


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I wonder how she would feel if you told her that you never intended to uphold your promise of fidelity. Lies don’t sit well with me, ever. I’d have a real problem with her lying to you all those years ago. 

And before anyone goes crazy, I’m well aware that there is a big difference in her not working and infidelity. But a promise is a promise and it should be upheld. I’m just trying to make a point about it. 

I wish you well OP.


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## vincent3 (May 31, 2018)

Wolfman1968 said:


> If the OP came home tomorrow and said, "I want to thrive in the home, being a dad, husband and home maker," and abandoned all responsibility for bringing money into the home, would you say 'Nothing wrong with that?".


Oh, well that's different. 



> Note that OP NEVER agreed to be the only breadwinner. He just didn't push when his wife violated their prior agreement. His wife is now claiming this entitlement, much like a trespasser on your land who isn't evicted soon enough will try to claim "squatters' rights".


I did push, and things were tense for a while. But when you're trying to push against that entitlement while minimizing the risk to your relationship with your child or a financially ruinous divorce, you need to be careful about how you push.



> I wish you well OP.


Thank you. Thanks to all who offered advice and encouragement. If anything interesting develops, I'll stop back and post an update.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

vincent3 said:


> Wolfman1968 said:
> 
> 
> > If the OP came home tomorrow and said, "I want to thrive in the home, being a dad, husband and home maker," and abandoned all responsibility for bringing money into the home, would you say 'Nothing wrong with that?".
> ...


Be sure to come back !!!!! 

Remember: Never expect a woman to think like a man ...... unless she has a penis.....in which case you visited the wrong bar !!!!!


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## Adam Kol (Jul 19, 2019)

vincent3 said:


> Where did you get that from my post?
> 
> "I have no qualms about telling her that we can't afford something because she doesn't work. If she drops a hint about the nice house our son's friend lives in, she'll immediately be reminded that both of the friend's parents work. She'll retreat for a while until the heat dissipates, but she refuses to get a job.
> 
> Yes, I often do have frustration in my voice when this comes up."


This is you acting like a jerk. Even if you think it's justified that you're upset -- and it is justified, indeed -- this way of being isn't going to help.




vincent3 said:


> I created space for a healthy conversation at the outset and even suggested that she take a few days to be sure she was making the right decision for herself. I was gentle and supportive at the beginning, until it became clear that she never intended to do what she promised. And please don't try to toss it back on me by saying her actions were because I didn't approach her right. If the barometer of my effort is whether she agreed, then that puts me in the position of being responsible for her refusals when the reality could be that she's the bad actor.


It sounds like you absolutely tried your best in the early stages. And if you feel you've tried enough, then you're more than entitled to say you're done. However, whether you're "right" or "wrong" becomes a whole lot less relevant when you're trying to create more partnership, closeness, and intimacy. My advice comes from a place of trying to cultivate more of that.




vincent3 said:


> I haven't been forcing her or shaming her, but reiterating that we're struggling and that it's past time for her to start contributing. As it as, I often come home to her playing a computer game or watching a video.


It sounds a whole lot snarkier than that based on your post. I'm suggesting that you get honest with yourself about that. Not because you're a bad person. Rather, I'm looking for places and ways that you might show up differently. Because, same actions = same results. New actions = a chance at new results.




vincent3 said:


> Are you actually suggesting that I'm violent? Please! I made sure we had an open dialog about expectations. I was supportive when I was still under the impression that she meant what she said, and some time after that. Instead of squeezing her financially until she couldn't take it anymore (which surely would have been construed as me being financially abusive), I was giving in moderation while trying to work through this.


Not at all. Google "nonviolent communication." It's a communication style wherein you take ownership of your own feelings and experience.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Adam Kol said:


> This is you acting like a jerk. Even if you think it's justified that you're upset -- and it is justified, indeed -- this way of being isn't going to help.


Human beings get frustrated when other people renege on their promises. That's not "being a jerk". That's being human. I think the OP has shown patience way beyond what most ordinary people would have.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Mr.Married said:


> And it is already obvious to everyone she has no interest in working.


We know that, and the OP knows that we know. The issue is that his wife is using her gender as the excuse. It becomes an issue of "you are the man, not me, so your burden is higher than mine" and he is getting (understandably) resentful. He also strongly implies that he doesn't get the benefits you would expect of having a full-time homemaker.

My advice is that he just lay it down for her. Tell her that he is tired of pulling all the weight financially and she can either contribute, or he can divorce her and then she'll have to work. If she is the type that would be rather work 100% for herself if she has to work at all, he's better off without her.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

“Wife, you’re going to get a job no matter what happens. You can do it now while we’re married, or you can be forced to do it when we’re divorced. Your call. But what is not your call is the fact that I’m not going to bear the financial burden of supporting you just because you don’t want to work any more.”


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Take away the cards and take her off your bank acct. Give her an allowance. Say 100 dollars a month. If she pitches a fit, tell her that she can earn more based on chores. Then proceed to layout a chore sheet with set wages.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Just divorce her. She doesn’t have the same goals as you do.

some times you just have to realize the it’s not a good match.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Zombie thread. Closing


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