# The malign influence of friends



## Husband83 (May 6, 2020)

A bit of background. About six weeks ago I found my wife had a profile on a married dating site. I'd been suspicious something was going on for a while because of a number of classic signs (emotionally distant, always on her cell phone, more 'nights out with the girls' and lingerie in the wash that she hadn't worn for me). I also discovered that over the past few months she'd not been where she said she was on a handful of occasions (Google Location gives the game away). Luckily I think I caught her activities in time and she hadn't found anyone in particular, she'd just been on a few dates and done a fair bit of sexting (her dating profile still showed she was messaging a lot of different people the day I found it). 

However, this isn't about the affair itself, or our relationship with one another per se. I'll be the first one to admit there's a lot for us to work on and although my wife is entirely to blame for the cheating, we're jointing responsible for letting our relationship get into the work, kids and stress rut. That's something we're working on together now. 

What concerns me though is that although the number 1 rule is that after an affair, contact with affair partners should cease, what f there was a friend who encouraged her to do it? What kind of malign influence can that friend have on her as we try and rebuild our marriage. 

More context. My wife has a friend who she's known for longer than we've been together. This friend has had about five relationships in the time we've been together and they always follow a similar pattern. She cheats on her existing partner, falls madly in love, makes a home together then after about 4 years she repeats the cycle. Around the same time my wife joined this married dating site, she started relationship number 5 with a married man with five kids who has now moved in with her. Apparently the jilted wife came around and caused a scene at Christmas but my wife's friend just does not care! In short, I think she is an emotionally immature woman who thinks love should all be roses and champagne who is incapable of having a long term relationship with anyone. She also has a strong sense of entitlement to get what she wants. And her life is a mess, with a child from one relationship, a future as a step mum to another five with the current one, two abortions with others etc. 

My concern is that it was this friend who - when our marriage hit a rough patch - encouraged my wife to cheat on me instead of trying to fix things. And I'm also worried that my wife thinks she's worth getting relationship advice from, even though she knows about as much about long term relationships as the Pope knows about condoms. 

I really don't know how to broach this subject with my wife though. I don't want to turn into the controlling husband who vets her friends and checks her emails (I've only spied once under overwhelming evidence that something was going on, didn't like it and don't want to do it again). However, I really don't like this friend or her malign influence. 

I'm thinking the best approach might be for me to lay out my concerns about this friend, say I have no problem with my wife continuing the friendship but to please, please, please take her relationship advice with a pinch of salt and remember that my wife should be giving her advice, not the other way around. I'm also thinking of saying "happy for you to see her, but I don't want to so she can't come to the house when I'm here." 

What are others' thoughts on this?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

You have probably heard the old adage "..birds of a feather flock together...". Your wife most likely thinks this woman is right, and gets her own sense of entitlement fed by this relationship.

I don't think you should dictate what your wife should do with her friendship, or interfere with it. I agree that no snooping is the best approach. People tend to act like they're treated. If you treat your wife like a child and impose restrictions, your wife will rebel..... like that internal adolescent in your wife who she is allowing to take control of her.

Take a position of expectation that your wife will accept her lesson in maturity and adjust her own attitudes and behavior to be consistent with the wife she promised you she would be.



Husband83 said:


> remember that my wife should be giving her advice, not the other way around.


I think you should absolutely say this to your wife. Point out succinctly how you understand that this woman is not a good role model for anyone to follow, and that your wife has A RESPONSIBILITY to show forth correct attitudes, behaviors, and morals to her.

Demand that your wife grow up.


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## Husband83 (May 6, 2020)

TJW said:


> You have probably heard the old adage "..birds of a feather flock together...". Your wife most likely thinks this woman is right, and gets her own sense of entitlement fed by this relationship.
> 
> I don't think you should dictate what your wife should do with her friendship, or interfere with it. I agree that no snooping is the best approach. People tend to act like they're treated. If you treat your wife like a child and impose restrictions, your wife will rebel..... like that internal adolescent in your wife who she is allowing to take control of her.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I should add I think this friend was her alibi a couple of times too. That said, over 13 years my wife has for the most part held similar views of this friend to me and most of her friends are nothing like this. Hence why I can so easily pinpoint her as the malign influence. The patterns of my wife's behaviour (very sporadic dating, normally a couple of days after visiting this friend) suggests she needed a lot of pushing too. 

I'm going to go ahead with telling her that she should be careful of taking advice from someone else whose own life is a mess.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

You sound a tad bit codependent. The friend has to hit the road. 

Try reading these books No More Mr. Nice Guy, Hold on to your NUTS, Codependent No More

Your wife is clearly cheating and you don't want to look controlling?

How much sense does that make? Quit analyzing and take action!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Why are you focusing on this friend, when your wife did some major cheating? I would focus on the cheating, and what you are going to demand of your wife going forward. I mean, joining a married dating site, going on dates, lingerie? Seriously? She very likely slept with at least one other man. I'd demand she get tested and you should get tested as well. 

As for this friend, it's not like we are hanging with friends right now. I think I'd keep this in your back pocket for later. Next time she wants to make plans with her, maybe ask, "Why are you friends with someone with such horrible morals?" The friend is major bad news - a total homewrecker. I find people like that evil, honestly.

You sound more worried about this friend though, than your wife's behavior, which is seriously troubling.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

Your post shows to me that you are wandering in the wilderness, looking for a clue. Definitely you don't know too much about cheating (which is a common and predictable behavior). I don't think you should know about it if you've never gone through it before. This is an education process, frequently the lessons learned are through hard knocks. I'm sorry, but it's way worse than you think.

*"My wife has a friend who she's known for longer than we've been together."*

Someone else already posted "birds of a feather flock together." You dismissed this as, basically, "No, you are wrong, NOT MY WIFE. I'm sorry, yes, this is your wife. She stays friends with people who have terrible values and, even worse, she let's this person influence her. Number one, hold your wife accountable for her own actions. This friend may have influenced your wife, if so, that is entirely on your wife, who knows more than you how TOXIC this friend is in a marriage. Here is a common understanding here. If a friend is not a friend of a marriage, they should be cut out of both of the spouses. Your wife's friend is not a friend of your marriage and is not a friend of you. Why, if your wife loves you, and this so-called friend ENCOURAGED HURTING YOU, why would your wife want to stay friends with this toxic friend who wanted to hurt you? What is wrong with your wife? She was willling to risk the marriage, losing you. Now your wife supposedly is saying she loves you and wants to stay married. And apparently she thinks staying friends with this toxic influence is a good thing. If your wife does not have the same basic values of this friend, never has, why did your wife stay frineds all these years? Either your wife also agrees with the friend's values, or else your wife doesn't care very much about those values, e.g., your wife did not influence the long-time friend to stop cheating, the opposite happened. Is that because your wife agrees with cheating more than she agrees with not cheating? Or just your wife is a very weak-willed person, easily influenced to cheat by an obvious toxic person?

Number two, I am very concerned that your wife apparently hasn't told you if this friend influenced her or not, how much the friend influenced, how the whole affair process was working, the timing, the thought process, how the thought of cheating popped in your wife's head, etc., and you say "*My concern is that it was this friend who - when our marriage hit a rough patch - encouraged my wife to cheat on me instead of trying to fix things. And I'm also worried that my wife thinks she's worth getting relationship advice from ... ." *Your wife should tell you whether she thinks her friend's advice is valuable, yes or no.

*I really don't know how to broach this subject with my wife though.*

Why did you even confront your wife about cheating? Is that not "controlling"? Who are you to tell your wife what male friends she can meet on an adultery website and have sex with? You ARE controlling your wife by YOUR DEFINITION of controlling. It's not a dirty word. I would completely disagree on the "controlling" definition you seem to use. You have the right to do whatever you want, and so does your wife. You can cheat, she can cheat. It is all legal. She can divorce you for any reason, or no reason at all. You can do the same. Neither of you can CONTROL the other person. You both also can make a decision as to WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE IN OUR MARRIAGE. If your wife is so weak-willed and influenced by a well-known well-aware toxic friend to cheat on you, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? That is how your decision should be framed, not from controlling. And you know what? Betrayed husbands very rarely come up with the word "controlling" on their own, usually it comes from the cheating wives who don't want to be accountable. Did your wife already push back on what you want from her, telling you that you are or will be controlling? Or some half-assed counselor who has little experience in infidelity (if you get counseling, get one who specialize in infidelity, otherwise likely it will hurt way more than it helps)?

*"I don't want to turn into the controlling husband ... ."

say I have no problem with my wife continuing the friendship but to please, please, please take her relationship advice with a pinch of salt

What are others' thoughts on this? *

You sound cowed. Your wife chose to cheat on you, and you are worried about not offending HER sensibilities about controlling and toxic friends. As my kids used to say to me, EPIC FAIL DAD.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Your wife’s friend is your wife. You need to understand this. Your wife is the bad apple.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

This is so messed up to me. I’m an adult, I work full time, life is busy and I get stressed out. I can’t imagine seeing red flag after red flag. Then the disrespect and lying she does. The fact that you need to track her. It’s too much. You can’t force her to act a certain way by policing her. 

Think about it, if left to her free will what would she do? 

You track her, you have access to her computer/phone. You see her lingerie. And she STILL does these things.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Husband83 said:


> A bit of background. About six weeks ago I found my wife had a profile on a married dating site. I'd been suspicious something was going on for a while because of a number of classic signs (emotionally distant, always on her cell phone, more 'nights out with the girls' and lingerie in the wash that she hadn't worn for me). I also discovered that over the past few months she'd not been where she said she was on a handful of occasions (Google Location gives the game away). Luckily I think I caught her activities in time and she hadn't found anyone in particular, she'd just been on a few dates and done a fair bit of sexting (her dating profile still showed she was messaging a lot of different people the day I found it).
> 
> However, this isn't about the affair itself, or our relationship with one another per se. I'll be the first one to admit there's a lot for us to work on and although my wife is entirely to blame for the cheating, we're jointing responsible for letting our relationship get into the work, kids and stress rut. That's something we're working on together now.
> 
> ...


Your wife has at best has faulty judgement, and you are concerned she won't like it when you utilize common sense?
Tough questions need to be asked here.
The first: Does she really want to be married to you? Is she truly sorry? Does she show genuine remorse? If so, since she is the one, who at a minimum laid groundwork to step out, done to rebuild trust? What is her action plan to your generous offer to consider reconciliation? Is she willing to give you a generous postnup? Get IC to address and correct the personal malfunctions that allowed for this situation? Will she give you full transparency in all factions of her life to allow a shot at developing trust again? Is she willing to give you a comprehensive timeline, with verification through poly? These are just a few of the many things she should be offering up if she is sincere. If she wants you, she should be willing to crawl through broken glass to show her resolve. The onus should be fully on her. You own 50% of the lack of romance. She owns 100% of her conniving and treachery.
If one has cancer, they remove the tumor. Same thing with her friend. Don't worry about being controlling, because her judgment apparently sucks, given her actions. You sit her down and have the talk and outline your requirements. Tell her that they are non negotiable. She will have 100% buy in or she is gone.
If I were in your shoes, the chance that I would file for divorce would be at 99.56%. If my wife truly wanted to be with me, she would have the time of the divorce process to work that .44% into a reconciliation.
You need to do what is best for you, *but if you want her back and you want her to respect you, the consequences for her better be profound, severe and unforgettable.*


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

Husband83 said:


> A bit of background. About six weeks ago I found my wife had a profile on a married dating site. I'd been suspicious something was going on for a while because of a number of classic signs (emotionally distant, always on her cell phone, more *'nights out with the girls' and lingerie in the wash that she hadn't worn for me). I also discovered that over the past few months she'd not been where she said she was on a handful of occasions* (Google Location gives the game away). Luckily I think I caught her activities in time and she hadn't found anyone in particular, she'd just been on a few dates and done a fair bit of sexting (her dating profile still showed she was messaging a lot of different people the day I found it).


See the part I bolded? Lingerie in the wash? I don't think you caught your wife before anything happened.

The reason for her to wear lingerie is to wear it for another man/men, for the purposes of turning him on before the screw. She is washing lingerie because it is used and soiled.

That is the only thing that makes sense.



Husband83 said:


> What concerns me though is that although the number 1 rule is that after an affair, contact with affair partners should cease, what f there was a friend who encouraged her to do it? What kind of malign influence can that friend have on her as we try and rebuild our marriage.
> 
> More context. My wife has a friend who she's known for longer than we've been together. This friend has had about five relationships in the time we've been together and they always follow a similar pattern. She cheats on her existing partner, falls madly in love, makes a home together then after about 4 years she repeats the cycle. Around the same time my wife joined this married dating site, she started relationship number 5 with a married man with five kids who has now moved in with her. Apparently the jilted wife came around and caused a scene at Christmas but my wife's friend just does not care! In short, I think she is an emotionally immature woman who thinks love should all be roses and champagne who is incapable of having a long term relationship with anyone. She also has a strong sense of entitlement to get what she wants. And her life is a mess, with a child from one relationship, a future as a step mum to another five with the current one, two abortions with others etc.


I suggest you find out more about your wife's activities, but *IF* you want to stay with your wife after you find out just how much she has betrayed you - which is a lot more than you want to admit to yourself - then came home, lied to your face and kissed you, maybe even had sex with you exposing you to who knows what, then her long-time friend has to go, completely and permanently, forever.

Or you will always have an enemy near your wife, actively working against your and your families best interests, which your wife seem pretty receptive to.



Husband83 said:


> My concern is that it was this friend who - when our marriage hit a rough patch - encouraged my wife to cheat on me instead of trying to fix things. And I'm also worried that my wife thinks she's worth getting relationship advice from, even though she knows about as much about long term relationships as the Pope knows about condoms.
> 
> I really don't know how to broach this subject with my wife though. *I don't want to turn into the controlling husband who vets her friends and checks her emails (I've only spied once under overwhelming evidence that something was going on, didn't like it and don't want to do it again). However, I really don't like this friend or her malign influence.*


Dude. You have to man up.

First of all, you need to have some control in a relationship. And in this particular relationship, if you want to keep it, you need to be quote unquote "controlling".

Second of all, if you don't snoop, and snoop hard, you will never learn anything, because your wife is a cheating liar. My advice right now is to say nothing, don't let your cheating wife know you suspect anything.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT "VIOLATING HER TRUST"! SHE HAS NO PROBLEM VIOLATING YOURS.

Get her phone and the software "Fonelab". Using Fonelab you can run a recovery on her phone that can access and restore deleted text messages, pictures, videos, cheater app messages etc.

Hold on to your hat, because you'll find out a lot more than you thought you would! Save everything and store it someplace she cannot touch it.

Then, dig in to her email and see what you can find. Forward to yourself, take screenshots etc.

Access her online cheating accounts, screenshots, save, rinse, repeat.

You can also catch her red-handed with a hidden voice activated recorder, remote phone monitoring, etc.

And when you confront her with all of the mountain of evidence you will find, she will try to turn the tables on your by being angry about your being controlling or violating her trust.

DON'T GO FOR THAT ********!

You need to toughen up buddy.



Husband83 said:


> I'm thinking the best approach might be for me to lay out my concerns about this friend, s*ay I have no problem with my wife continuing the friendship but to please, please, please take her relationship advice with a pinch of salt and remember that my wife should be giving her advice, not the other way around. I'm also thinking of saying "happy for you to see her, but I don't want to so she can't come to the house when I'm here."
> 
> What are others' thoughts on this?*



My thoughts are that your wife is cheating on you with the influence and assistance of a degenerate "friend" and your strategy is to beg and plead with her, making you look weak.

And frankly, she would be right.

Either you step up and be "controlling" and make demands about what you will accept in your relationship, your marriage for chrissakes! 

Or accept that you are the man at home supporting her, while she ****s men outside the home.

Or simply divorce her. She'll respect that by the way.

Man up, step up.

But first, snoop to your heart's content and find out what your wife really is.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Husband83 said:


> A bit of background. About six weeks ago I found my wife had a profile on a married dating site. I'd been suspicious something was going on for a while because of a number of classic signs (emotionally distant, always on her cell phone, more 'nights out with the girls' and *lingerie in the wash that she hadn't worn for me). I also discovered that over the past few months she'd not been where she said she was on a handful of occasions (Google Location gives the game away). Luckily I think I caught her activities in time and she hadn't found anyone in particular, she'd just been on a few dates and done a fair bit of sexting (her dating profile still showed she was messaging a lot of different people the day I found it). *


Why do you allow her to treat you like this?
She's been on a few dates......
Am i understanding this correctly?
Why have you not booted her out of the house?
Why have you not contacted a lawyer to get the divorce process rolling?
Why, just why are you letting yourself be walked all over?

Your "wife" is cheating and you're worried about her friend?
Are you kidding me?

Lawyer - now - find out your rights. Start the divorce process.
IC - for you , someone that specializes in infidelity. You need someone to talk to.
love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Your wife is dating other men she met on an internet dating site. Among other things, her behavior is: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lack empathy for you. The 'rut' you describe is just the 'excuse' she uses to justify her behavior. 

However, the deeper question she must answer (if she's to become a safe partner) is why she ignored her moral code and acted out. 

There are no perfect marriages. Lots (if not most) of people/marriages fall into the rut you describe. However, your wife chose dating other men vs other options. Therefore, she is 100% responsible for her decision to 'date'. You were not included in that decision.

From your posts it sounds like your wife already knows this 'friend' is sort of a bad apple (i.e., because none of her other friends act that this). FURTHERMORE, this friend is more than a bad influence - this friend is a co-conspirator in your wife's inappropriate behavior. Therefore, IMO: as one of the consequences of your wife's inappropriate behavior, she needs to go 100% NC with this person forever.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity, which among other things includes your spouse avoiding suspicious behavior (e.g., acting single and/or dating). Your wife has failed in a big way. Therefore, if she wants to stay married she needs to do whatever you need to save her marriage and restore trust.

In order for her to take you seriously she needs to believe you will divorce her (bluff if you have to) rather than tolerate any further inappropriate behavior. Your stance against her reaching outside of her marriage must be non negotiable. Mentally she's already rationalized her way past any guilt or moral constraints so she's beyond the point of reasoning with her. 

Any indecisiveness on your part (with respect to divorce) will be viewed as a weakness and she will not take you serious.

Finally, if showing your wife zero tolerance for her behavior drives her away, then you already lost her (and you're better off knowing that sooner than later).


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You said your wife had a profile on a *"married dating site".*
The purpose of such a site is for married individuals to find sex outside the marriage. That is the sole reason they exist.
I would focus on that rather than who encouraged her to take that path. 
Your wife has revealed that she is comfortable with actively seeking sex with strangers and following through with meeting these men.
That is your main problem.......not the **** of a friend who encouraged the behavior.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> You said your wife had a profile on a *"married dating site".*
> The purpose of such a site is for married individuals to find sex outside the marriage. That is the sole reason they exist.


Yep, this. Married people don't need dates. Married people want to ****.

The only real question is how many men has your wife banged so far?

My guess is that it equals the number of "dates" she has been on. That's your answer.

Just divorce her.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

There's a reason the site used to the name of one our revered founding fathers, James Madison. 

Hey! Apparently that's been corrected. Point still stands.

I'm not going to beat you up like some here for even asking the question, since you were looking for specific advice about one part of a much larger process, and you should get that. 

Recovering from an affair for the offending spouse is in my opinion a lot like recovering from alcoholism. You have to excise those parts of your life that enabled your bad behavior (enabling in the addiction sense). That means of course no contact with any previous affair partner, no returning to the old web site just to "look around out of curiosity's sake", and no going back to anyone in your life that suggested/promoted/supported your affair behavior. 

It's cold turkey, all-or-nothing. If you don't want to inject heroin, you don't keep heroin in the house.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

There is no such thing as a little bit of infidelity or a little bit of disloyalty. Either she is loyal and faithful to you (and the marriage) or she isn't.

She isn't.

She crossed the line. Now maybe she didn't sleep with the entire football team, but that would be a matter of degree not of whether she was unfaithful to you.

Recovery from infidelity requires the entire process no matter the degree of infidelity. She still has to end her contact with this friend, or at least relegate it to controlled situations such as neighborhood parties. This person encouraged her and enabled her infidelity, which makes her a toxic friend to the marriage despite any positive aspects to her.

Stop trying to determine the degree of how bad it might have been. Assume the worst, and you are probably correct. There's a great scene in the series Ozark when Del tells Marty a story of a clerk caught stealing from the cash register of the family store. He asks Marty what should be done since this was the first time. Marty answers "Fire her. It wasn't the first time she stole from the register. It was just the first time she was caught". There was the subtext about Marty's wife getting caught cheating, and the look on her face gave away the truth that this wasn't her first affair either.

99.99% of the time there is far more to the story than you know. Cheaters only reveal as little as possible, generally what they think you already have proof of. The evidence strongly supports that your wife had physical sex with other men. Her friend encouraged and enabled this behavior. Move forward based on this.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Bud, your wife is a grown adult. I suspect your are in a bit of denial. “My wife just wouldn’t cheat”, that’s not who she is, blah, blah, blah.

While the friend maybe an enabler and an enemy to your marriage your wife made the very willing and conscious decision. No one made her.

Under the circumstances you have a high chance of repeated behavior.

good luck, you'll need it


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Yes, her friends are _a_ problem.

But your wife is _the_ problem.

It is highly likely she had sex with each of those guys on those dates. The fact that she still wants her cheating support system around her tells you all you need to know.

This is a false reconciliation - and I can tell you that false reconciliations are often even more harmful to betrayed spouses than the initial cheating is.

Don't focus on getting her friend out of her life. Focus on getting your wife out of your life.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Some people think a man is "controlling" when their wife starts dating and having sex with other men they meet online...You need to know what you will and will not accept in a marriage. 
I for one would not be ok with my wife dating.
It's not the friend of the wife that's your problem. It's your wife.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

I don't think there's anything wrong with snooping if u are suspicious about something is happening behind your back. I'd continue to snoop BUT wouldn't bring any suspicion up, until I have solid proof to confront. Keep on checking in the background and just as much as her friend, your wife is guilty the same way! She lacks integrity.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Husband83 said:


> A bit of background. About six weeks ago I found my wife had a profile on a married dating site. I'd been suspicious something was going on for a while because of a number of classic signs (emotionally distant, always on her cell phone, more 'nights out with the girls' and lingerie in the wash that she hadn't worn for me). I also discovered that over the past few months she'd not been where she said she was on a handful of occasions (Google Location gives the game away). Luckily I think I caught her activities in time and she hadn't found anyone in particular, she'd just been on a few dates and done a fair bit of sexting (her dating profile still showed she was messaging a lot of different people the day I found it).
> 
> However, this isn't about the affair itself, or our relationship with one another per se. I'll be the first one to admit there's a lot for us to work on and although my wife is entirely to blame for the cheating, we're jointing responsible for letting our relationship get into the work, kids and stress rut. That's something we're working on together now.
> 
> ...


Years ago when I was a student at a British polytechnic (yeah, it was a long time ago!) a friend had a t-shirt with the slogan "*we* are the people our parents warned us not to associate with!"

Who is the toxic friend out of the two of them? Might it be that your wife is as bad as her friend? Or worse?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Jump in a bowl of tacks and roll around, then go take a bath in saltwater. Do that every day and you will still have a better life then being married to your wife. 

Just saying.


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