# thinking of getting a sex partner whilst married



## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

ive posted a few times last year, long story short.

Been married 1 1/2 years only sex 3 times and more info below,

- tied counselling (5 sessions)
- we argue/fight but id say same as normal couples
- wife has depression
- sex only about 3 times in last 500 days and worse still 5 times in last 3 years
-still love her dearly
-talked a few times about the non sex issue and she doesnt get hornt anymore at all
- spoke tonight openly again and said i need sex and would prefer with u, or i even hinted at a threesome to get her involved
-hinted at getting a sex partner as im not turned on by paying for sex.

i actally feel that ive tried everything and at least i have been honest and communicated, I love her/our daughter/our house and want to stay but i just need sex.

i actually have 2 male friends but they are in their 50's who are still happily married but have a sex partner once a fortnight as there wives just dont get horny, this has been going on for 7 years. one wife got a disabled daughter and hasnt been able to more or less have sex since and she was upset and traumatised, the other wifes son died and hasnt had sex since.

its a risk, but im manning up a bit and more or less telling my wife that i cant except no sex in marriage anymore...thoughts?


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## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

Get divorced first. You can't have your marriage and pretty little house AND be a cheater. Yeah, those friends of yours are doing it and getting away with it because they value sex over morals.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

How did your wife respond to your hints of threesome or additional sex partner(s) for you?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

1) find better friends
2) fix the marriage or get out- if you truly love your wife then you wouldn't let her suffer from the pain that infidelity gives you


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## theduck (Jan 2, 2012)

To do this ethically, clearly discuss what your intentions are with your wife and come to some sort of mutual agreement about the new boundaries of your relationship with her. At the very least, you have the option of being completely honest with her. 

To do this non-ethically, find a willing lady nearby/google a dating site or something and make sure your wife doesn't find out. Because an affair + depressed wife = trouble. 

Unsurprisingly, most people would choose option number two.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi Brendan ~

Go read through the stories of betrayed spouses in the Coping with Infidelity sub-forum and let their pain wash over you.

Your wife is already suffering with depression, and I know that you are suffering in all of this too. But adding a sex partner outside of your marriage will just bring additional pain and suffering in to a marriage with two who are already in pain and suffering. Adding an additional person will magnify the pain, not reduce it (and what kind of person would knowingly want to become a third-party in that kind of a situation?)

If you are manning up, then you know that you have two options. Stay the course with your wife with integrity or let her go with integrity. In either of those cases, you can get up in the morning and look yourself in the eye and believe in the man that you are.

Best wishes.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> Hi Brendan ~
> 
> Go read through the stories of betrayed spouses in the Coping with Infidelity sub-forum and let their pain wash over you.
> 
> ...


Wow - well written! 

:iagree:


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

You will be excoriated by many for leaving her "just" because you want sex. 

"How dare put a divorce on the plate of an already depressed woman! And just because you want to get your rocks off!" 

Others will blame you for not making her want sex. "Every woman wants sex, you're just not sexy enough to turn her on" might be the sort of thing you hear.

She came into the marriage not wanting sex. If you had known you were signing a celibacy contract, you probably would have done things differently. I think you've got to get out.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> You will be excoriated by many for leaving her "just" because you want sex.
> 
> "How dare put a divorce on the plate of an already depressed woman! And just because you want to get your rocks off!"
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

i dont want people feeling sorry for me, i feel sorry for my wife.


She honestly says "she just doesnt get horny anymore (ever).
I think she is telling the truth, what i cant understand is she never even trys to help me out.

I know she feels bad i really do, but a 28 year old man has needs.

In a perfect world i would keep going with the marriage and have sex with a sexy girl on the side with wife okay about it. but i know it probably wont work.

Just need sex and im starting to get anxiety because of it, average of once every 200 days in last 3 years insnt good.....

On other hand, if i do just end marriage, it will destroy her IMO


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

If she really felt bad, or was concerned about your happiness in the marriage, she'd take a hour out of her schedule once a week and enjoy some intimacy with you.

Is she trying to deal with her depression?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

I doubt it will destroy her, she'll be hurt, it will suck for a while, but she'll get over it and move on with her life. What would probably "destroy her" would be finding out you went outside the marriage. If you don't want to destroy her, be honest with her and exit the marriage without cheating on her.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

brendan said:


> iOn other hand, if i do just end marriage, it will destroy her IMO


No she won't but she will definitely be destroyed if you betray her by getting into a sexual affair.

Divorce her first. Nobody deserves to be betrayed.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brendan,
Why is it ok with YOU, for you to be slowly destroyed through forced celibacy but not ok with YOU for her to have to go find another husband?

Why is it ok with HER, for you to be miserable for the next 50 years but NOT ok with HER to deal with some sadness and have to find another husband?

Your outcome together is a guarantee of total misery. If you divorce at least the two of you each have a chance at finding happiness with others. 

Go look up 2 definitions:
1. parasitism
2. symbiosis

You are currently enabling her to do (1), when in truth all you are seeking is (2). 

One last thing: You and she both know that SHE knew she didn't really feel desire BEFORE she married you. Basically she tricked you. 





brendan said:


> i dont want people feeling sorry for me, i feel sorry for my wife.
> 
> 
> She honestly says "she just doesnt get horny anymore (ever).
> ...


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

brendan said:


> Been married 1 1/2 years only sex 3 times and more info below,
> 
> 
> - sex only about 3 times in last 500 days and worse still 5 times in last 3 years


So, she wasn't sleeping with you before she married you, why would you think that would change? That is the real question.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

The best thing to do is to end the marriage. She will be sad but she will recover. Right now two of you are unhappy and this effect you child so there are really 3. 

If you think about it, getting a divorce is an orderly way to end things. You can plan carefully and make sure she gets the support she needs to get through. If you cheat I think it will destroy her and by extension you because you care for her. 

The outcome of divorce does not have to be negative for all around under the circumstance. It is very possible that she settled for you. Maybe she though you would make a good husband and father but did not find you sexually attractive. She may regret her decision and feel depressed about it. 

Let each other go. She will be spured to marry a man that she feels sexually attracted to and you will marry a woman who is sexually attracted to you. Win-win.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

appreciate most responses. I really dont think ill have sex with someonse else, but im considering it with her knowing.....but most of people and probably right say it will destpry her.

but i have tried everything, even tried not trying for 4 or 5 months last year, im one for communicating but she is stand offish. I really love her but very worried now.

Dawn D - good point i suppose. 4 years before hand sex was good, after birth of daughter no good.....i really did think it was just a birth thing and she would snap out of it after a year or so but its got worse. really worse.

toying with the option of not having sex elsewhere but not sleeping in the same bed also, bad that would hurt her too. hurts me laying in bed not being able to touch


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Is she on meds? Those can suck your libido.

But yea, divorce her. No one gets married for a sexless life.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

brendan said:


> Dawn D - good point i suppose. 4 years before hand sex was good, after birth of daughter no good.....i really did think it was just a birth thing and she would snap out of it after a year or so but its got worse. really worse.


 I think if you have honestly told her that the lack of sex was enough for you to walk away from the marriage and she still hasn't changed, then its time to walk. I know you don't want to hurt her, but you are running the risk of either hurting her by leaving before you cheat instead of leaving her with her world crashing around her because she found out about an affair.


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## theduck (Jan 2, 2012)

brendan said:


> appreciate most responses. I really dont think ill have sex with someonse else, but im considering it with her knowing.....but most of people and probably right say it will destpry her.
> 
> but i have tried everything, even tried not trying for 4 or 5 months last year, im one for communicating but she is stand offish. I really love her but very worried now.
> 
> ...


Another point I want to make about the non-ethical path. 

You're relying on not getting caught. If you get caught, you'll destroy her. It's a gamble. In other words, you're gambling with her sanity.

When you have a depressed partner, cheating is seriously one of the last things that you should do.

You're in a bad situation and I don't envy you dude.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Is your wife on medication for her depression? 

Has she ever actually had any sexual desire? It's not clear from what you wrote that she has.

What things has she tried to increase her libido?

One thing about women is that the more sex we have, the more we want. So if your wife never has sex, her desire for sex is going to naturally diminish.

Does your wife think that she has to be completely in the mood to start sex? Sometimes I can just agree to get started with massage, foreplay etc and that puts me in the mood. It’s called seduction. Do you two ever engage in this type of activity?


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## theduck (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking from personal experience, it's most likely her depression, as well as any possible meds that she is taking.

If she is depressed, no amount of "making her feel sexy and loved, and reconnecting that emotional bond" is going to do anything.

If she has been depressed most of her life, I wouldn't expect any changes with her mental state for a long while. 

If it only happened after you had a baby, it could be postpartum depression. Which is treatable if one acts quickly.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

Have you told your wife straight out that you do not want to continue as things are and if you can not work actively on intimacy and sex together, then you two need to divorce? She is equally as responsible for your relationship as you are, so there's no need for you to do this decision alone.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Husband wants to make love to his wife...wife says she isn't in the mood....happens time and time again. 
Husband tries to help his wife....she's not interested
Husband continues loving wife is faithful and stands with her
Husbands right hand gets frequent use
Wife still isn't responding to his needs & desires
Right hand gets callouses
Husband still loves and cherishes his wife
Wife still not responding to or thinking about his needs
Husband has affair

Husband is at fault. Bad husband. Horrible husband. Naughty husband.
Poor poor wife.....


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

7737 said:


> Husband wants to make love to his wife...wife says she isn't in the mood....happens time and time again.
> Husband tries to help his wife....she's not interested
> Husband continues loving wife is faithful and stands with her
> Husbands right hand gets frequent use
> ...


If she doesn't want him sexually, he is free to leave. As a matter of fact I have seen several women just like me tell him to leave before he has an affair. Why punish himself even more?

It isn't just about the wife. How is he going to feel about himself when she and all their friends and family find out? Not good. So leave first, then find a partner that wants to fulfill your needs.


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

7737 said:


> Husband wants to make love to his wife...wife says she isn't in the mood....happens time and time again.
> Husband tries to help his wife....she's not interested
> Husband continues loving wife is faithful and stands with her
> Husbands right hand gets frequent use
> ...


No one is making him stay, so yes, it would be bad husband (or wife) cheating is never the answer. If you think husband isn't getting sex now, wait until wife finds out about an affair. That sure ain't gonna make her want to get freaky with him. My man would be out in the yard with all his belongings, and it would be even harder because the car is mine. I admire those who can forgive their cheating spouse, I'm really not sure I could get over the lies and betrayal.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

Maybe the OP should leave....but what if there are young children involved? 
In most cases the mother wins custody of the children. I am in a similar position as the OP...but have young children who I love more than anyone/thing else.

The OP's back is against the wall...he has two choices....be a monk or divorce....because if he seeks sexual relief elsewhere he is in deep poo poo.....
If only it were that easy!

I'm afraid men will always be guilty, no matter what we do.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

It's a strange situation, isn't it? 

The third way - finding an outside partner - is so taboo. A spouse who does not even *want* sex is adamantly opposed to their spouse getting sex elsewhere. 

So, lose your kids, spouse, and half of what you own... all because your spouse has decided that you never having sex again is more important than the marriage.

This is just so terrifying. 
How is this best addressed prophylactically? How can we prevent people from winding up in situations like this?

By adjusting our social attitudes and expectations of "sexual fidelity" in situations where one partner is simply uninterested in the "sexual"?
Or telling people to be more careful at figuring out the sexual interest level of their potential partners? - this seems difficult, given the 'bait and switch' tactic. 

I don't know. This all seems so horribly depressing.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I hate to say this but people should be more willing to discuss what they consider their most important emotional needs before they get married and not simply expect that these needs will be taken care of automatically by their spouse.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

As long as your wife is okay with this arrangement.......


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> As long as your wife is okay with this arrangement.......


:iagree:

and if she ain't ok with it it might open up a conversation about how important it is for you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ThrowAway said:


> The women were too busy gushing over their wedding-plans. The men were too busy thinking about how much sex they were going to get (irony).


:rofl:



chillymorn said:


> :iagree:
> 
> and if she ain't ok with it it might open up a conversation about how important it is for you.


'Xactly!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

7737 said:


> Husband wants to make love to his wife...wife says she isn't in the mood....happens time and time again.
> Husband tries to help his wife....she's not interested
> Husband continues loving wife is faithful and stands with her
> Husbands right hand gets frequent use
> ...


This was my situation, and the basic path I followed. However, the decision to cheat was still entirely mine, and I really wish I hadn't done that. I really really should have separated/divorced, as that's been the end result anyway. And then I'd still be able to comfortable with my own integrity, especially when it comes to future relationships.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

some good honest advice here,

when i spoke to her sensibly the other night she just couldnt talk about the issue. she said "do want u want"


or 

" i dont get horny anymore, its your problem"

wasnt happy.


yeah i do want i want, then the sex will be great but then id still feel guilty and she would get upset more than likely, may lose her/child/house/money.

if i dont do it, im sexless and miserable in that way (im a happy person)

might raise it with her later tonight


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brendan,
You have some specific actions you can take that are less extreme than what you are considering now. 

The "minimal" path is a simple test of "minimal commitment". It goes like this. You tell her that you require touch to feel loved. This isn't a "want" it is a "need". So if she cares about you, starting this week you are going to take turns giving each other a 1/2 hour massage every other night. You can tell her - this isn't foreplay but it is a minimal demonstration of commitment. 

The more aggressive path is to tell her that she needs to make a good faith effort to see if she can teach you how to get her turned on. That you accept she feels no "desire" in the day to day but you want to find out if a massage that gradually becomes more sexual might turn her on. 

If she isn't open to either of these - then this is way more than a sexual issue. A wife who refuses sex and refuses to give her H a non-sexual massage is a very cold wife. 




brendan said:


> some good honest advice here,
> 
> when i spoke to her sensibly the other night she just couldnt talk about the issue. she said "do want u want"
> 
> ...


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

MEM11363 - I asked my wife (the timing was good) how to turn her on....'I don't know'....Please try to help me to help you....'I'm really not interested in it'....
And I'm sure I'm not alone in getting that response.

Very many people here are saying that affairs etc are totally wrong. I'd agree they are morally wrong.

However I ask this; how many men (or women) have been/are in a sexless marriage and have sought sex elsewhere and it has made their marriage less frustrating because the black cloud of sex that has hung over the marriage has been removed...????


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

jezza said:


> MEM11363 - I asked my wife (the timing was good) how to turn her on....'I don't know'....Please try to help me to help you....'I'm really not interested in it'....
> And I'm sure I'm not alone in getting that response.
> 
> Very many people here are saying that affairs etc are totally wrong. I'd agree they are morally wrong.
> ...


I got the same from my STBXW, that she had no fantasies, no idea how to turn her on, nothing. It was like sex just was no more important to her than washing the car once every few weeks.

As far as your other question goes... I know someone who was in a sexless marriage, and ended up having an affair. It made things much better for awhile, but eventually reality brought things back to earth. The resentments maybe went away on holidays, but when they came back they brought friends. Thoughts like "well, XXX loves me, finds me hot, etc... Why doesn't my spouse?". Then there's the treatment that a couple normally gives each other in a relationship, in the honeymoon phase. Few long term marriages can compare to that. And finally, it reduced her desire to even try to make the marriage work anymore.

In other words, the affair was like a shot of painkiller for a bullet wound. Yeah, it takes away some of the pain. But it didn't solve anything long term. They say the opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. In the end, I think the affair accelerated her arrival at that point.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

well i did have a good 45 min chat about sex with wife, layed it all out.
at first she was not in mood for talking about it. (hates sex talk). then soughted opened up abit. 

I said i want to be more open in terms on communication, i told her i have a threesome fantasie also. I said i love her but cant go on without sexless marriage at 28 years of age.


i said i willl not leave u because of no sex, as i love our easy going life apart from it, she said she does too but wants to go night clubbing once a month to let loose. fel tgood to let a lot out, then said maybe try writing to eachother as dumb as it sounds about the issue.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Writing to each other isn't "dumb". It can eliminate some of the embarrassment of a face to face discussion. So use whatever tools you need to!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

i will write a email in amin and she will get it later....

during chat, she told me She has never looked or watched porn ( iwas shocked). Also she has no desire at all to be sexuall with me, anyone, toys, fantasy.

says she has no fantasie and no role play desire.


hmmmm

- she does have one she likes, when she says "OH IM A GOOD GIRL" while we use to do it and she like me saying "YOUR A BAD GIRL, Your SO NAUGHTY" surely thats a fantasy im some type. ahaha. here goes the email


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## bpsleo (Jan 12, 2012)

Discuss with your wife and have mutual agreement about you having regular sex with some one else.This way you will be completely honest with her. 

Find a willing lady nearby or known friend (Females) or something like that.Take your wife into confidence, so that she knows that , it is requirement which she is not fulfilling at the moment and she is allowing you to have sexual satisfaction.

In the mean time get her to see Doctor to get her Libido back by medication, so that you both can have sexual relationship also. Depression is treatable and it takes time. She will recover with regular medication.

Coincidentally I have gone through the same problem in the past. I arranged with my wife ( who had severe depression, and she was counselled by Doctor to have sex with me when ever she feels like it to save our marriage, which she did over the time. It took her 2 years to recover fully. There after she decided when to stop other ladies ) that once a week I used to have sex with other lady in my house. she never objected and three ladies with whom I had sex became our family friends , more of her than mine. On requirement my wife used to fix the time with them or I used to call them in my house. Rarely I had gone to their houses.

We both meet these ladies and are in good terms, am grateful to them.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

Your wife suffers from depression which is really sad. Why compound the issue by fooling around on her?

Have you tried showing her any warmth and affection while just holding her and telling her she's beautiful?

How would you feel if you were depressed and your wife said to you.."I know you don't feel horny, but maybe a threesome would make you feel better..."

Gee, thanks honey.


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## mousecat (Nov 28, 2011)

There must be some middle ground, surely. I mean OK you don't expect sex every night, but once a month isn't much to ask. I know exactly how you feel, believe me. Women don't seem to understand, sexual frustration for men is not only physically uncomfortable but mentally very depressing. Some mere acknowledgement of your needs, from her, would be a start. Maybe work on that first. Good luck.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

she is on pristique

we have has 5 counselling sessions, ive tried to be supportive.
yes i have held her and says your beautiful. all i get is fft no im not.
she actually is sexy.

dont agree with memyselfandi response though, yes she has depression what should i do, what for 20 years????


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

for the recoed, i send a really long email. which counsellor suggested as my wife doesnt like confrontation face to face and feels easier non verbal comminication...

maily stating that i love her so much and want to be together forever and sex once in avaergae 300 days in last 3 years is unnaccaptable although i dont blame her.

asked her for input on the issue


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

In Europe and elsewhere it is a given that men will have sex outside marriage (and often women, too) and that this is simply a characteristic of gendered roles. That being said, I informed my wife very, very early on that I need sex a minimum of 3 to 5 times per week (sometimes per day!). However, try reminding her of that when she is steamed about some minor household issue (minor to me-hee-hee!). 

Regardless, I have found that while most healthy women are not half as horny as the average red-blooded Canadian man, virtually all women I have known loved to please their men even if they can't/won't have intercourse. The compromise is having her please you :smthumbup: Now while that may not be ideal, it is a compromise. To turn her on, women need a long build up and so you need to work on that (that could be an hour or a week of foreplay, get it?). It's like anything good, it takes effort and a positive attitude. In our society we are too fixated on immeidate release and satisfaction but neglect the fact that good work is in itself satisfying (certainly, my wife and I appreciate it when either one of us does a good job:lol.

Now, if she won't do that; noone can help you and counselling or no, I wouldn't stand for it, especially since you have only invested a year (is that right?) in the relationship. Someone said up top that it not gratifying sexual impulses is unhealthy and I wholeheartedly agree.

You live once, my friend, why on earth would you be miserable for a protracted time unless all the other facets of your relationship can outweigh what is lacking (which they very well may!)? You can ask her to allow you a sex surrogate as a last resort, but she should be present, I think. There are no easy answers but you definitely need to assess and reassess prior to making a game-changing decision like divorce (perhaps, and please don't take offense, you should have experimented long before you chose to marry and have a kid that way you would have been alerted to her reluctance to have sex). Your story seems common amongst a those who have neglected 'fully' knowing their prospective partners prior to marriage which I find logical considering the growth of retrogressive social mores.

Ah, one more thing. While I may have begun this post by stating that in many places sex outside of marriage is common, I must confess I have never gone outside my marriage; I think that my wife senses and has sensed this and (also, even though I am 40 I keep myself in tip top shape and stay trim with at least a 4 pack on the tummy, eat right and lots of fruit, maintain myself so she is attracted to me physically) so my wife is willing to please me because she appreciates my fidelity.

Another thing you may want to consider is that some women who have low sex drives were sexually abused or assaulted at some point in their lives, so if that is the case then nothing you do will change her way of thinking and feeling. Recommending a menage a trois for a woman like this mine as well be like spitting in her eye and telling her she is worthless to you. She needs healing and support, not carnal pressure! She may need serious help; then, it is a matter of how much you love her and want to invest in the friendship (which is actually more important for me since my wife is my best friend and if she experienced protracted issues sexually she might very well allow me some freedom in that area, though she hasn't yet!)

Anyhow, best of luck! Stay positive.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

ThrowAway said:


> IMO inexperience is a huge factor here.
> 
> Three couples in their twenties that I'm close to, recently got married.
> 
> ...


Well, I was 28 when I married my husband.

There was no wedding to gush over, because we could only afford a small elopement. We couldn't let our parents plan and pay for our wedding, because we knew that would give them a free pass to control our married life.

We spent *many *hours discussing our needs and expectations for marriage. Sex, children, in-laws and finances were throughly talked about and agreed upon. We knew that these plans could always change, except the childfree life.

It helped that we lived together while we were engaged. It was a great test. 

There ARE wise people in their late twenties. I hate this attitude that all young people are stupid.

OP, it would make more sense for you to leave your wife. I know that is easier said than done, but if she refuses to work through her issues, infidelity will only worsen the situation.

Surviving sexual abuse is no small feat. If your wife has been abused in this manner, she will need to attend IC. Bear in mind that some damage can never be repaired; I still hate having fingers inside me. I also do not like being ordered to do something in bed and I am afraid of men who come from the same race as my abusers.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)




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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

a lot of usefull information on here, i guess this issue of (when i proposed) till now is the issue, eg.

proposed 2 1/2 years ago after living with her for 2 years

+ no child. both worked, went out a lot. had sex, had fun, were happ and in love, lots of weekends away/holidays.


now 

+child who is the best, still both work, dont go out as much as she has no energy due to depression, and when were are at home its not quality as she likes relaxing watching the crap reality TV shows where as i like doing stuff or watchign sport, no sex, she has weekends away with girls but not me, our 2 or so holidays are year are still good however.

the point im trying to make is a women that you love has changed so much in 2 1/2 years and so much sexually obviously that shes sorta a different person at times, she says ive changed too and am grumpy more which is true, no wonder without sex. Awaiting her email reply today or tomorrow to see if she can communicate more.... sme times i think its the old, 

- got married now, im settled (put on 20k.g and no sex)
-have child where ive produced (im a mummy before wife)
-have a nice house (can relax and be lazty around thwe house)
- dont have to have sex now as i dont need to be seen as sexy to keep my man.


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## lastradas (Oct 14, 2011)

L.M.COYL said:


> In Europe and elsewhere it is a given that men will have sex outside marriage (and often women, too) and that this is simply a characteristic of gendered roles.


Good Lord, I don't know where you got this information from but as a European (born and raised and living in the US for 8 years) I can assure you that this is complete bvllsh*t - at least in countries with Western Standards. 

@Brendan: I've been following your posts for months now. People keep giving you literally the same advice over and over, but you keep coming back asking essentially the same thing every single time, seemingly hoping for that one response that'll make all your problems go away. 
What I find surprising that all of your posts revolve around that one, very specific topic: You don't get enough sex. There seem to be no other problems. If you got enough sex, everything would be okay. 
Problem is, your wife doesn't think so. And while you acknowledge that she is depressed, you don't seem to _really _get it - and this has been very pervasive throughout your posts. Yes, you went to counselling with her a few times, but I feel you literally expect miracles just because you go - you do realize that altogether you have spent just five hours in a room with a therapist (technically less because session are ususally 50 min)? And if you're not working on these issues at home - and like I said before, in the beginning you will unlikely be working on your sex life - then things are not going to change.

You keep talking about how you are trying to talk to her - yet, the only thing you seem to try to talk to her about (and of course I could be wrong here), is your sex life. Duh, if I was depressed, literally had no interest in sex, and the only thing my partner really wants to have a heart-to-heart talk about, is sex, I would shut down, too- big time.

I don't intend to undermine your desire for closeness and intimacy but if you're unhappy you need to get out of this relationship. Because the way you're approaching it (based on what I read here) it's not going to change any time soon. You can still be very good parents to your child and you both get the chance to be happy.


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

> Good Lord, I don't know where you got this information from but as a European (born and raised and living in the US for 8 years) I can assure you that this is complete bvllsh*t - at least in countries with Western Standards.


What I meant, which is what I should have written, was that in Europe and many other places abroad, there is a less hostile perception of infidelity, although the US is still, I believe, more promiscuous. The point is that infidelity is not going to solve any problems relating to communication with your wife and the fact that you've children. She has changed because circumstances have changed, however that does not mean that you can't both still obtain satisfaction. Indeed, in time perhaps what you'll care to emphasis in the relationship may also change.

FYI, branden, David Barrash and his wife wrote on the 'monogamy myth' a few years ago. That might be of interest. Depending on your own values IMO it may very well turn into a dangerous route.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

PBear said:


> I got the same from my STBXW, that she had no fantasies, no idea how to turn her on, nothing. It was like sex just was no more important to her than washing the car once every few weeks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Come on, washing the car is way more important then sex.

People can see a dirty car and what will they think of you?

People can not look at you and tell that you have not had sex for a long time.

The car gets washed more then you have sex because of this.

In fact," the car needs washed" is a great excuse to use up the little extra time that could be used for having sex.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *L.M. COYL said *: FYI, branden, David Barrash and his wife wrote on the 'monogamy myth' a few years ago. That might be of interest. Depending on your own values IMO it may very well turn into a dangerous route


Amazon.com: The Myth of Monogamy: Fidelity and Infidelity in Animals and People (9780805071368): David P. Barash Ph.D., Judith Eve Lipton: Books

Sounds like a very interesting read.


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

Brendan, recall the functional definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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## lastradas (Oct 14, 2011)

L.M.COYL said:


> What I meant, which is what I should have written, was that in Europe and many other places abroad, there is a * less hostile perception of infidelity*


Well, I can only speak for my country and this simply isn't the case.



> although the US is still, I believe, more promiscuous.


I do, however, wholeheartedly, agree with this.



> Amazon.com: The Myth of Monogamy: Fidelity and Infidelity in Animals and People (9780805071368): David P. Barash Ph.D., Judith Eve Lipton: Books
> 
> Sounds like a very interesting read.


Well, it's really no surprise that from an evolutionary standpoint, humanity (especially men) is not meant for monogamy. But we're one step ahead of every other organism on this planet: We have the ability to choose and to make decisions. And while humans may have an innate desire for sexual intimacy, they can choose whether they act upon it.



Zzyzx said:


> Brendan, recall the functional definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


Very true. I am not sure whether we're getting at the same thing but Brendan's post are an example of exactly that. The words of his posts are different but the content is always the same, with no gained insight.

Remember, if you want things to change, you need to change. But no pseudo change, real change. The choice is yours. You want to be happy? It's up to you to make it happen. And yes, it is possible that this life of happiness isn't going to include your wife, but again, the choice is yours.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brendan,

You aren't the type of guy who would be able to insist on an "open marriage" and feel good about it. 

And that is a compliment. 

Your main problem is you are working to solve this problem as if you are a female. I am happy to do the "feelings" channel all day long provided I don't feel I am being treated really badly. 

Once THAT happens if you don't start acting like a "male". Which means stop "talking" and start "DOING" - nothing will change. You already know all that though. Because you have been talking. The more you "talk" the less she respects you.

Keep writing your wife these long heartfelt letters - and you will stay right in the middle of her friendzone. 

Keep talking about how it would "destroy her" if you don't agree to be celibate and do whatever she needs. 

Check back in a year and let us know how nothing has changed - well except your hand is a bit more exercised...





brendan said:


> a lot of usefull information on here, i guess this issue of (when i proposed) till now is the issue, eg.
> 
> proposed 2 1/2 years ago after living with her for 2 years
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

lastradas said:


> .
> Well, it's really no surprise that from an evolutionary standpoint, humanity (especially men) is not meant for monogamy. But we're one step ahead of every other organism on this planet: We have the ability to choose and to make decisions. And while humans may have an innate desire for sexual intimacy, they can choose whether they act upon it. .


How do you explain the dramatic increase in women cheating and reaching parity with men? 

Every survey done in the last decade or so shows that the prevalence of women cheating has increased dramatically while male infidelity has decreased slightly. 

At the present rate, women will reach parity with men by the time the next generation reaches marrying age if not before. 

It will be interesting to see what will happen to the evolutionary myth when men can't ignore reality. 

I don't think this a bad outcome. Cheating will finally be seen for what it is, an individual problem of lack of character and impulse control. 

The excuse that forces out of ones control will be far less attractive when men have to worry about their wives yielding to the same forces. 

These men may be more interested in humans evolving to the point that control of regressive impulses is valuable.


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## lastradas (Oct 14, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Your main problem is you are working to solve this problem as if you are a female.


Well, clearly you're not a female. Because from my very 'limited 'experience as a female I don't think at all he's actually being very "female" at all. Yes, he writes long letters and tries to talk to her. But my impression is that he is so fixated on the this one subject that he may miss what's actually going on in the relationship. Based on his posts, lack of sex seems literally to be the one thing he tries to talk about with his wife. Yes, she gets long letters that may be all touch feely, but like I said before, if I am depressed and have no interest in sex, the last thing to get me in the mood is a lengthy letter about the lack of sex. To me, it demonstrates how little I and how much the sex matters. 
I am not even saying that Brendan feels this way but this is how _his behavior_ would come across as to me.



> Once THAT happens if you don't start acting like a "male". Which means stop "talking" and start "DOING" - nothing will change.


Would you mind specifying what he should do? As in a very specific action. 



> Keep talking about how it would "destroy her" if you don't agree to be celibate and do *whatever she needs*.


I would actually like to know what it exactly is that Brendan's wife needs?



Catherine602 said:


> How do you explain the dramatic increase in women cheating and reaching parity with men?


Increased social acceptance, decreased social repercussions, and an increased sense of self-rightousness (i.e. "my partner doesn't give me what I need, hence it is okay if I do X,Y, and Z).

My $.02.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

lastradas said:


> Increased social acceptance, decreased social repercussions, and an increased sense of self-rightousness (i.e. "my partner doesn't give me what I need, hence it is okay if I do X,Y, and Z).
> 
> My $.02.


I see, same as men? 

You forgot one very important thing, opportunity. Women are no longer confined to the domestic front. Employment increases contact with men. 

What about primal evolutionary impulses beyond our control? If it is true for men then it is true for women.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lastrada,
Let's start with timing. This has been an acute issue for 3 years. Sex 5 times in 3 years. 

Let's move on to some possibilities:
- depression because she really isn't into brendan and THAT makes her depressed
- depression caused by non Brendan issues

If its him she should be honest and just tell him. 

If it isn't him - who owns "fixing the problem"? I think she does. And that means lifestyle - exercise - therapy - etc. 

BTW I am familiar with depression. Nasty stuff. But it isn't diplomatic immunity to treat your partner like they don't matter. 

So the way this looks to me is you have a LD partner who lacks the desire to please/avoid displeasing their partner. And an HD partner with poor coping skills. 

None of this is that difficult. You either believe you are entitled to demand that your partner be involuntarily celibate, or you don't. I don't and fortunately my W doesn't. We both believe the vow to "love" includes making an effort for sex to be a positive part of the marriage. For the HD partner that means not grinding your LD spouse wi incessant demands. For the LD partner that means making the same effort not to starve/reject the most important person in your life. 

All that said Brendan's issue isn't really sex it's that his wife doesn't really respect him. If she did she would either:
- have sex with him or 
- be honest about what the real issue is - instead of stonewalling him





lastradas said:


> Well, I can only speak for my country and this simply isn't the case.
> 
> 
> I do, however, wholeheartedly, agree with this.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lastradas (Oct 14, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I see, same as men?
> You forgot one very important thing, opportunity. Women are no longer confined to the domestic front. Employment increases contact with men.


I didn't explicitly say this, but yeah. The more women attain equal status as men in all aspects, the more it is accepted if they behave similarly.



> What about primal evolutionary impulses beyond our control? If it is true for men then it is true for women.


I am not sure whether we disagree or agree on this issue.
And what exactly are "primal evolutionary impulses"? I assume you mean desire for sex/sexual intimacy, right? 
Quite frankly, I believe that human _behavior _is primarily nurture and very little nature. Therefore, while people may have those impulses (they they can't control), acting on them is whole different story.
A person who cheats may follow his "primal impulse" but nobody can seriously tell me that if I offered that person $1000 bucks not to cheat, they would easily forego that activity - which is proof that at the end of the day they choose to cheat.

@MEM11363:
I partly agree with what you're saying but I also think you're taking the easy way out. Neither one 'deserves' any of this. Yes, in an ideal world they should both put equal effort in to resolve the problem. I don't defend her but in another thread by Brendan I have described in detail how I felt with my depression and how I perceived my relationship and that the suggestions you're making here - as logical as they are - are not as clear cut if you have MDD.



> If it isn't him - who owns "fixing the problem"? I think she does. And that means lifestyle - exercise - therapy - etc.


Yeah, tell a depressed person, they should 'just' do it. That's the first fallacy.



> None of this is that difficult. You either believe you are entitled to demand that your partner be involuntarily celibate, or you don't. I don't and fortunately my W doesn't. We both believe the vow to "love" includes making an effort for sex to be a positive part of the marriage. For the HD partner that means not grinding your LD spouse wi incessant demands. For the LD partner that means making the same effort not to starve/reject the most important person in your life.


I agree with all of this. But again, the depression is a major factor, the lack of sex just a symptom. You can't fix the symptom until you fix the actual problem.



> All that said Brendan's issue isn't really sex it's that his wife doesn't really respect him.


See, this makes me believe that you don't really know what depression is, otherwise you wouldn't make that argument. Being depressed doesn't mean you don't respect somebody and it doesn't mean you don't love somebody.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lastradas,
Depression is awful. Speaking first hand here. 

That said it doesn't make it ok to treat my W badly for years on end.

And I grasp the inherent: I am depressed therefore I cannot find the energy to begin fixing myself. 
The thing is he can't own her depression. If she needs help with it she needs to ask.

On top of all that - she comes across as very indifferent to him. And that indifference is likely much more than a symptom of depression.

All that aside, do you feel he is obligated to stay with her if she isn't willing to actively work on her issues and the marriage?

A long time ago I saw a special on welfare reform in Wisconsin. They interviewed a woman who had been on welfare for 20 years. When they stopped her benefits she said "I had been depressed for 20 years which was why I couldn't work. But suddenly I felt better and got a job.





UOTE=lastradas;551738]I didn't explicitly say this, but yeah. The more women attain equal status as men in all aspects, the more it is accepted if they behave similarly.


I am not sure whether we disagree or agree on this issue.
And what exactly are "primal evolutionary impulses"? I assume you mean desire for sex/sexual intimacy, right? 
Quite frankly, I believe that human _behavior _is primarily nurture and very little nature. Therefore, while people may have those impulses (they they can't control), acting on them is whole different story.
A person who cheats may follow his "primal impulse" but nobody can seriously tell me that if I offered that person $1000 bucks not to cheat, they would easily forego that activity - which is proof that at the end of the day they choose to cheat.

@MEM11363:
I partly agree with what you're saying but I also think you're taking the easy way out. Neither one 'deserves' any of this. Yes, in an ideal world they should both put equal effort in to resolve the problem. I don't defend her but in another thread by Brendan I have described in detail how I felt with my depression and how I perceived my relationship and that the suggestions you're making here - as logical as they are - are not as clear cut if you have MDD.


Yeah, tell a depressed person, they should 'just' do it. That's the first fallacy.


I agree with all of this. But again, the depression is a major factor, the lack of sex just a symptom. You can't fix the symptom until you fix the actual problem.


See, this makes me believe that you don't really know what depression is, otherwise you wouldn't make that argument. Being depressed doesn't mean you don't respect somebody and it doesn't mean you don't love somebody.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I just want to throw this out there. In search of cleaning up my own depression and anxiety problems I have determined that the lack of sex is a big problem for me. 

My wife in the many excuses she gives me says she is depressed. And yes I can see that. But she is able to fake being happy around other people.

I understand faking being happy around other people, I do this myself. But I do not understand not being able to meet your partners need while being able to fake happiness to other people.

It is different to me if a person is so far down that they just don't get out of bed ect.


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## lastradas (Oct 14, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> I just want to throw this out there. In search of cleaning up my own depression and anxiety problems I have determined that the lack of sex is a big problem for me.
> 
> My wife in the many excuses she gives me says she is depressed. And yes I can see that. But she is able to fake being happy around other people.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but you're also drawing conclusions from yourself to other people. Based on what I read here from Brendan, I can very well understand what his wife may be going through.
You know, I may be completely wrong. She may be a heartless b*** who couldn't care less about him. I can only offer my insight and own experience. And from that I can tell you that despite being depressed led me to act very similarly as Brendan's wife, even though I still loved him and wanted to meet his needs but I just couldn't.


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## lastradas (Oct 14, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Lastradas,
> Depression is awful. Speaking first hand here.
> 
> That said it doesn't make it ok to treat my W badly for years on end.


 Well, playing devil's advocate, I think it's debatable whether she is treating him badly. Just because they disagree on something doesn't mean it's bad. If he had no desire for sex, nobody would argue that she's treating him badly.



> And I grasp the inherent: I am depressed therefore I cannot find the energy to begin fixing myself.
> The thing is he can't own her depression. If she needs help with it she needs to ask.


Very much agreed. She's the one who needs to get the depression fixed. Problem in my opinion is that he doesn't really give a crap about the depression but only about the frequency of sex. And clearly, this is a chicken and egg situation, but if all my partner was concerned about, was frequency of sexual intercourse, it's very hard to feel cared about and my healing progress is significantly slower than if I had a supporting partner who doesn't just seem to care about sex.

I truly do understand his position but fact is, the way he acts, it ain't getting better because 1) his method hasn't worked at all
, yet he keeps doing the same thing 2) she'll start resenting him eventually if she already isn't. Again, I am basing that on my own experience, other people may have a different experience.




> On top of all that - she comes across as very indifferent to him. And that indifference is likely much more than a symptom of depression.


\
We don't know that. For all I know, she is completely stonewalling because of his constant focus on one thing.



> All that aside, do you feel he is obligated to stay with her if she isn't willing to actively work on her issues and the marriage?


*Absolutely NOT.* As a matter of fact, I think he should have left her already. Just like everybody else, he has the right to happiness and sexual satisfaction. But he keeps saying that he wants to be with her and his kids. So, if that's what he wants, why does he keep trying things that are clearly not working out in his favor?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lastradas,
Lets pretend:
1. Brandons wife had a normal level of desire, and 
2. HE had no desire for sex, and 
3. He basically told her to "suck it up and accept it" and
4. She came on here for advice

I frankly would be telling her the same stuff I am saying to Brandon. 

I come back to: "If you can't find it in your heart to spend at least one hour a week showing me that kind of love - you don't really care for me". Just as true for men as it is for women. 

Do you really think it is not "treating someone badly" when you deprive them of something they are "only allowed to do WITH YOU"?

As for his area of focus - we will never know whether he primarily cares about her well being or his needs. Or what he started out caring about 3 years ago. 




lastradas said:


> Well, playing devil's advocate, I think it's debatable whether she is treating him badly. Just because they disagree on something doesn't mean it's bad. If he had no desire for sex, nobody would argue that she's treating him badly.
> 
> 
> Very much agreed. She's the one who needs to get the depression fixed. Problem in my opinion is that he doesn't really give a crap about the depression but only about the frequency of sex. And clearly, this is a chicken and egg situation, but if all my partner was concerned about, was frequency of sexual intercourse, it's very hard to feel cared about and my healing progress is significantly slower than if I had a supporting partner who doesn't just seem to care about sex.
> ...


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## lastradas (Oct 14, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I come back to: "If you can't find it in your heart to spend at least one hour a week showing me that kind of love - you don't really care for me". Just as true for men as it is for women.


Speaking for myself, I know that this isn't true. 



> Do you really think it is not "treating someone badly" when you deprive them of something they are "only allowed to do WITH YOU"?


Well, here I am referring back to an good old example: If she was physically not capable of engaging in sexual intercourse, you wouldn't say this. Yet, she would still be depriving him of sex. From what I read, when you were depressed you didn't experience a lack of interest in sex, hence it seems incomprehensible to you why someone would do it if they were depressed and I can talk until I am blue in the face but I was depressed and as much as I wanted to have sex with my partner, I simply couldn't and I engaged in the same behavior Brendan's wife is: stonewalling. And my partner pushing the sex thing, seemingly not caring what else was going (because if I made myself have sex with him, the world was okay for him and it didn't seem to cross his mind that I may be feeling differently), really didn't make me want to engage with him in any other way, despite loving and caring for him. My partner, just like Brendan, cared for me ( I _know _this - well maybe not towards the end but that's a different story), but the association he made between sexual intimacy and our relationship being in the green was so off putting that I felt he couldn't care less if I spread my legs on a regular basis.

I am not taking sides, I am simply trying to demonstrate two things:
-that her behavior may not purely be the result of spitefulness. 
-that he maybe hasn't really tried much, but his attempts were more or less pseudo attempts to get her to have sex with him (and I am saying this because I've read his posts and every time he does ~ one nice thing he seems to expect the world to turn around and her to become sex - crazy (of course I am exaggerating here)


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LOL

But my W can't have sex. Well can't have intercourse. It hurts. So we don't do "that". As for your situation - if having sex meant your partner ignored your depression - that is very sad. 

And ummm if my depression made me impotent - I would please my wife in other ways. And I would do it for HER. You didn't want to give to your ex because when you did - he responded in a way you disliked. You are talking about "love" the feeling. I am talking about love "the choice". 

You can say "I loved him - I really did - I simply refused to give him what he needed from me because ....long list of reasons why he was a selfish partner....". 

And my view of that is it is fairy tale love. The kind where how I "feel" matters more than "what I do". 

I cannot count the nights I have responded to a kind offer to connect with "tonight I will love you by rubbing your back while you drift off to sleep". It is a choice to stretch yourself when tired, sad or anxious. And a choice not to take something from someone who is willing but clearly tired, sad or anxious. 

As the sun sets each day it is far more likely for us to exchange some version of "you come first tonight, no no, YOU come first tonight" than it is to hear:
"it's MY turn to get my way tonight, no no, it's MY turn"


TE=lastradas;552401]Speaking for myself, I know that this isn't true. 


Well, here I am referring back to an good old example: If she was physically not capable of engaging in sexual intercourse, you wouldn't say this. Yet, she would still be depriving him of sex. From what I read, when you were depressed you didn't experience a lack of interest in sex, hence it seems incomprehensible to you why someone would do it if they were depressed and I can talk until I am blue in the face but I was depressed and as much as I wanted to have sex with my partner, I simply couldn't and I engaged in the same behavior Brendan's wife is: stonewalling. And my partner pushing the sex thing, seemingly not caring what else was going (because if I made myself have sex with him, the world was okay for him and it didn't seem to cross his mind that I may be feeling differently), really didn't make me want to engage with him in any other way, despite loving and caring for him. My partner, just like Brendan, cared for me ( I _know _this - well maybe not towards the end but that's a different story), but the association he made between sexual intimacy and our relationship being in the green was so off putting that I felt he couldn't care less if I spread my legs on a regular basis.

I am not taking sides, I am simply trying to demonstrate two things:
-that her behavior may not purely be the result of spitefulness. 
-that he maybe hasn't really tried much, but his attempts were more or less pseudo attempts to get her to have sex with him (and I am saying this because I've read his posts and every time he does ~ one nice thing he seems to expect the world to turn around and her to become sex - crazy (of course I am exaggerating here)[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> How do you explain the dramatic increase in women cheating and reaching parity with men?


I would venture that it's because it's only in the last (roughly) 60 years women have felt able to get away with it in the way that men have.

Before that, men controlled essentially all the money and property in the relationship, divorce laws were heavily stacked in their favour and society was less negative toward them if they cheated. Women had more to lose. 

But that's just my twopenn'orth.


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Amazon.com: The Myth of Monogamy: Fidelity and Infidelity in Animals and People (9780805071368): David P. Barash Ph.D., Judith Eve Lipton: Books
> 
> Sounds like a very interesting read.


What is indeed interesting is that the co-authors have been married for 20 years . . . _*and remained faithful!*_

Barash makes the crucial distinction between instinct/impulse and willpower/choice. Very pithy, I should think.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

Was reading all posts inlciding lastradas until i read this CRAP that you wrote:

"
Very much agreed. She's the one who needs to get the depression fixed. Problem in my opinion is that he doesn't really give a crap about the depression but only about the frequency of sex. And clearly, this is a chicken and egg situation, but if all my partner was concerned about, was frequency of sexual intercourse, it's very hard to feel cared about and my healing progress is significantly slower than if I had a supporting partner who doesn't just seem to care about sex."

wont go into any more specifics as im looking after daughter right now, but i do 70% of cleaning, 100% of outside cleaning, 50% of cooking and try nonsexual touch still even though she shrugs it off a lot.

And these long letters that im writing????

Counsellor advised me to write a letter or email to her as she doent enjoy confrontation. One letter which i did on saturday and it wasnt that long lol.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

a quick bit of humor that i heard from a guy in my town who has same issue. gotta laugh abotut his sometimes.

similar to what

like MEM11363 said " Do you really think it is not "treating someone badly" when you deprive them of something they are "only allowed to do WITH YOU"?




our wives are stopping us doing what only we can do with them brendan.

Its like going to the pub and not being allowed to have a beer, going to the basketball but leaving qwith 5 mins to go when its 88-88, its like going to the races and not having a bet. 

Its sorta true, going to the races is fun and you love it but not the same without having a bet. 

for what its worth he also really does love his wife as i do and has had no sex for 2 years and is 30.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

another good call from MEM11363.

"And ummm if my depression made me impotent - I would please my wife in other ways. And I would do it for HER. "



thats what i think sometimes, im not angry at her for the no sex as she isnt horny due to depression mostly. But can she try other ways at ALL? Even a handjob anything, this makes me sad in some ways. Like MEM said if i couldnt get horny i still believe id at least do something a quarter sexuall for my wife.

gotta go shop cya


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

10-11-2011, 0244 AM, 
Title: Wifey gives ok to go to a brothel/hooker
Poster: Brendan

"as discussed on other topics my wife and i (28). do not have sex anymore as she doesnt want it or doesnt want to or doesnt feel like it or has no sex drive. 3 years maybe 5 or 6 times.

she has now come to me and said she is okay with me seeing a hooker or go to brothel.

That just does not turn me on or is not what im after, my reply was i dont think i will as it does not turn me on to pay for sex even that ii know plenty of men who do.

should i be really angry that she has suggested this or happy she thinks she is trying to help me out - intially i think its rude and lazy.

Im meeting her counsullor next week for the first time, she has been about 6 times. things sure to come up."


brendan, I confess- I don't think you're making any progress.

You have struggled for years with this problem. You have been sharing your travails on TAM for months now. You have posted multiple threads, hoping to get some advice that will work, while avoiding the unpleasant truths about your situation.

Your wife doesn't love you. She may not even love herself. She doesn't-love you so much that she would rather you go have sex with another woman than her.

You are apparently to the point that you're considering it. Doing that will not get you sex with your wife, which is WHAT YOU WANT.

What you're doing IS NOT WORKING.

So try this. Stop doing 70% of the indoor cleaning. Start cooking for only you and your daughter. Stop touching your wife and trying to make her feel special. Go look for Morituri, and click on the Link in one of his posts, and read up on the ****ing 180 and start doing it. 

God gave us brains to think with. Based on your own writings, your marriage has not gotten better. That should tell you that what you are doing is not working. So do the 180, stop rewarding your wife for not-meeting your needs, and see if that changes things up.

The worst thing that will happen is she will stop having sex with you. Oh, wait.....


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

OP -- Your previous threads are all over the place. Your first one says that you cyber cheated with a "friend" and your wife found out. Then you go on to the whole " she told me to go to a brothel" and now you are back at "she won't sleep with me". Well, if I found out about my H having cyber-sex, I probably wouldn't want to sleep with him either. Point blank.

It would do you some good to look at all the advice and realize you are getting nowhere by simply disagreeing and deciding it isn't for you. maybe you need to go back to the beginning and ask her to deal with the cyber cheating with you to get her back to wanting sex with you.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

she read the email and was quiet but said she got emotional, says she loves our life too but has zero sex drive and nothing turns her on amymore. says im a softy at heart and was nice of me to write how i feel.

i told her to reply to email so we can work on sex issue, i hwelp her so much with her depression, surely she can help with my needs for sex or sex acts.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brendan,
Have you read "married man sex life" by Athol Kay?

I ask because it is a great book and it might help you. Definitely worth the small investment in time and money. Athol gets this stuff better than any man I know. 




brendan said:


> she read the email and was quiet but said she got emotional, says she loves our life too but has zero sex drive and nothing turns her on amymore. says im a softy at heart and was nice of me to write how i feel.
> 
> i told her to reply to email so we can work on sex issue, i hwelp her so much with her depression, surely she can help with my needs for sex or sex acts.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

NotLikeYou said:


> Go look for Morituri, and click on the Link in one of his posts, and read up on the ****ing 180 and start doing it.


You rang? (said in his most Adam's Family butler Lurch voice).

Here's a list of my links.

*http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559*
*The 180 degree rules*
*Man Up real life story*
*Forgiveness*
*Boundaries*,
*Character*
*No More Mr Nice Guy*
*Dads divorce*
*Not Just Friends*
*EMDR*
*'Not Just Friends'*
*Married Man's Sex Life*
*The Man Up and Nice Guy Reference*,
*http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/37268-3-ways-erase-post-affair-anger.html#post530941*


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

thanks for input, i read a few of them actually a while a go and just read 3 more today. (hope this shows im caring husband  )

Anyhow one thing that interest me was the married man sex life book where is almost FACT that women are attracted to men who are higher up/make the decisions/dominant.

Got me thinking.....

When my wife and i first got together, i worked 38 hours a week and had my own house and most decisions were made by me, eg what party to go to on weekend, when our next weekend away was little things like that.

NOW - 6 years later, I work 25 hours a week as does she. So im no longer the major breadwinner as she earns more than me. But i feel i had to cut back on work as she would not manage only doing 10-12 hours a week and raising our daughter. She would and was simply getting bored. Now little things changing, like she trys to control bank account/she trys to plan all holidays/she trys to be decisions maker. I have been just going along with it most of time to try not to disagree and save getting in argument. Comment she made a few weeks ago stands out, I lost $50 on a sports bet. And for first time ever says, "You are betting my money, i make more than you"

Got me mad a bit as i have been offered full time by my work but had to decline so i can look after our dauhgter half the time. But i think this issue may annoy her although i know its for the best.
And when reading, 90% of women find the dominant/decison making/breadwinner type guy more of a turn on.....maybe this doesnt turn her on in our life......hmmmm


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brendan,
If it was me - I would put my career in HIGH gear, and use the extra pay to hire a baby sitter for the hours your W can't/won't watch your child. I wouldn't work 40 hours a week - I would work 50. 

As for whether you select which movie you go see together - take turns. But that isn't the BIG thing. The money is. 

When I was your age - we had sex almost every day. Not saying the SOLE reason was because I worked 50-60 hours a week and my W could be a SAHM - but it was the biggest single factor. 




brendan said:


> thanks for input, i read a few of them actually a while a go and just read 3 more today. (hope this shows im caring husband  )
> 
> Anyhow one thing that interest me was the married man sex life book where is almost FACT that women are attracted to men who are higher up/make the decisions/dominant.
> 
> ...


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## Zhopa (Jan 18, 2012)

brendan said:


> another good call from MEM11363.
> 
> "And ummm if my depression made me impotent - I would please my wife in other ways. And I would do it for HER. "


Hiya Brendan !

Reading your thread with great interest, my wife and I are in the same boat; when we met ten years ago she was VERY interested in sex with me... which lasted until we got married.

Depression... yes, that's a definite possibility and I hadn't considered it before. Marriage Counseling doesn't seem to make a difference when one of the parties is depressed. As 'breadwinner' PLUS doing a good deal of the housework for someone who doesn't have to work but can't so much as get it together to get a child to school on time, I am looking for a firm change like the '180'.

A lot of the '180' mentions stopping doing some of the unwise things that I have been doing:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
8. Do not buy gifts.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
21. Never lose your cool.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

I am pulling back and doing my best not to lose my cool... I also recognise that I'm with someone who doesn't care about my feelings; why should I show any vulnerability? Sure it would be nice to have a real partner... but not today.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

brendan said:


> And for first time ever says, "You are betting my money, i make more than you"
> 
> Got me mad a bit as i have been offered full time by my work but had to decline so i can look after our dauhgter half the time. But i think this issue may annoy her although i know its for the best.
> And when reading, 90% of women find the dominant/decison making/breadwinner type guy more of a turn on.....maybe this doesnt turn her on in our life......hmmmm


She's basically announced that she doesn't respect your contrabution to the family doing what you're doing.

Suggest you change what you're doing...


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## Zhopa (Jan 18, 2012)

If you're with someone whose happiness depends on material wealth, then no matter what you do it's never enough.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hold on a minute here. This is a non starter in the US and most of the first world. There is a big difference between a woman wanting a mansion and a woman who wants a guy who makes an effort to be a good provider. 25 hours a week is not a MAN's work week. Not even close if you are healthy......



QUOTE=Zhopa;557811]If you're with someone whose happiness depends on material wealth, then no matter what you do it's never enough.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zhopa (Jan 18, 2012)

Hmmmm, I disagree. Henry George, greatest of the American economists, wrote that people seek to satisfy their desires with least exertion. However, 'One of the Socialist's principal failings is that he does not recognize that human desires have no limit.'

I'm willing to work real hard to get what I want, but if there's a way to get it with less work so I can take my son fishing, why not? One of the problems with my marriage is that I finally found a job where I have a lot of time to spend with my son, be creative on the job... but it's less money than the guys who work 60+ hours per week in a pressure cooker job, with mandatory unpaid overtime... they work 'til they get laid off too. 

No matter where you or I go, there's always some other guy making more money, spending more time at the office. Some other guy has a trust fund or inherited a house. Or he's living beyond his means and hiding that fact. No matter what we do, women measure us against them and the longer the marriage goes, the more we're found wanting, and the more they try to make us feel bad about ourselves.

I've gotten off that particular bus.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Zhopa said:


> Hmmmm, I disagree. Henry George, greatest of the American economists, wrote that people seek to satisfy their desires with least exertion. However, 'One of the Socialist's principal failings is that he does not recognize that human desires have no limit.'
> 
> I'm willing to work real hard to get what I want, but if there's a way to get it with less work so I can take my son fishing, why not? One of the problems with my marriage is that I finally found a job where I have a lot of time to spend with my son, be creative on the job... but it's less money than the guys who work 60+ hours per week in a pressure cooker job, with mandatory unpaid overtime... they work 'til they get laid off too.
> 
> ...


Your attitude from your posts are revolting and there is a reason your wife doesn't want sex with you. Your generalizations about women make me pity you and not in a "I feel sorry for you" kind of way but more of a I am sorry you are a man. 
Get off the bus. Good for you. Just stop projecting that it is a woman who is lacking.


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## lastradas (Oct 14, 2011)

brendan said:


> Was reading all posts inlciding lastradas until i read this *CRAP *that you wrote:
> 
> "
> Very much agreed. She's the one who needs to get the depression fixed. Problem in my opinion is that he doesn't really give a crap about the depression but only about the frequency of sex. And clearly, this is a chicken and egg situation, but if all my partner was concerned about, was frequency of sexual intercourse, it's very hard to feel cared about and my healing progress is significantly slower than if I had a supporting partner who doesn't just seem to care about sex."
> ...


I'm sorry if I offended you. That wasn't my intention. But I am asking you to look back at all your posts and what your *focus *seems to be: the lack of sex. Of course, the inferences I can make here, are very limited, but I can't help but think that these letters (which btw are generally a great idea) have a very clear message: That you are truly concerned about your lack of sex. I've said it a million times: it's okay that this is how you feel, but instead of opening up, your wife might even feel more cornered...and here I would like to refer to this statement:



MEM11363 said:


> LOL
> 
> As for your situation - if having sex meant your partner ignored your depression - that is very sad.


here is where it becomes problematic: My partner didn't ignore my depression but that didn't mean that I had any sexual desire. So what was I do. Non-sexual touch isn't sex and if that's what you want then you automatically ignore the depression- or frustration sets in.



MEM11363 said:


> LOL
> 
> And ummm if my depression made me impotent - I would please my wife in other ways. And I would do it for HER. You didn't want to give to your ex because when you did - he responded in a way you disliked. You are talking about "love" the feeling. I am talking about love "the choice".
> 
> You can say "I loved him - I really did - *I simply refused to give him what he needed from me* because ....long list of reasons why he was a selfish partner....".


I made a choice. We never went without actual sex (i.e. intercourse) for more than 2-3 weeks (which I understand by some people's standards is a lot but given that our previous average was twice/week, it wasn't too much off...guess what, resentment on my part set in real soon because I felt like he couldn't care less. Pair that with guilt of not feeling the same way (i.e. sexual desire) and you have a real healthy mix. 
Were my feelings justified? Maybe? I don't know. I tried very hard. I was in therapy and took medication because -believe it or not- I actually like sex. Could I have tried harder? Maybe. I felt I was giving everything but then again, depression changes your view of reality.
You can't draw conclusions from person to another. For me, "making the choice to love" wasn't the right thing as it ultimately led to many other things . He never complained about anything else (well, major) in our relationship , so I think I did okay in the other departments. 
Ultimately, I have no clue what's going on in Brendan's marriage. I can only react to what I read. Based on his own words and how he describes his wife, I get the impression that she may feel similar to how I felt and given that, the approach he takes right, ain't working.
And when I read stuff like this (and people actually believing it) I can assure you that he'll never have sex with her again:


> Your wife doesn't love you. She may not even love herself. She doesn't-love you so much that she would rather you go have sex with another woman than her.
> 
> You are apparently to the point that you're considering it. Doing that will not get you sex with your wife, which is WHAT YOU WANT.
> 
> ...





> Have you read "married man sex life" by Athol Kay?
> 
> I ask because it is a great book and it might help you. Definitely worth the small investment in time and money. Athol gets this stuff better than any man I know.


No offense, really. But this guy has absolutely no credentials whatsover in the area. There is a lot of research going on in the field of marital relationships, so I recommend going with readings on things that have actully empirically validated This book may make for an interesting read (and most likely it even sounds like it 'makes sense' and is intuitive) but if you want something that has actually proven to be working, go and find something by people who actually know their stuff and don't literally talk out their behind and because they maybe knew some other people who felt similarly.



brendan said:


> Anyhow one thing that interest me was the married man sex life book where is almost FACT that women are attracted to men who are higher up/make the decisions/dominant.


Yes, that is true, but this also primarily a factor when it comes to mate selection, and somewhat to a lesser extent when you've together for a while.
--> this is why it's important to not read some random schmuck's writing.




> And for first time ever says, "You are betting my money, i make more than you"
> Got me mad a bit as i have been offered full time by my work but had to decline so i can look after our dauhgter half the time. But i think this issue may annoy her although i know its for the best.


Have you talked to her about this? Because that really isn't okay.



> And when reading, 90% of women find the dominant/decison making/breadwinner type guy more of a turn on.....maybe this doesnt turn her on in our life......hmmmm


My parner made 15 times as much as I made...that didn't change anything.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

MEM11363

Hold on a minute here. This is a non starter in the US and most of the first world. There is a big difference between a woman wanting a mansion and a woman who wants a guy who makes an effort to be a good provider. 25 hours a week is not a MAN's work week. Not even close if you are healthy......


Yes i believe i am healthy and could work 40+ hours however my wife IS NOT. SHe has depression and cant cop with me doing 5 days a week whilst she looks after daughter. so we do more or less 3 1/2 days each. IF i worked 5 days, the wife gets bored and desnt have the drive/energy to do anyhthing with daughter. Where as whe i have my 3/4 days off a week i dont find it a problem. Iw ork around the farm/take her fishing/ clean house/ do general chores.

That is why i choose not to work more because it doesnt work fo us, this way does however didnt appreciate her saying the i make more money than you a while back. I gave up a promotion for her to do part time work


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

on another note, she is currently at the pub on her 6th vodka. Out with he girls, yes im happy as shes having fun. BUT. She doesnt drink, this is only the 5th time iver ever seen her drinnk.

I offer her drinks with me all the time but NO. Shes on ant i depressents obviously and alchohol sends her stupid. Will be interesting when she comes home.hmmmm

Im here with daughter watching tennis cooking her tea after a 10 hour day


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## Zhopa (Jan 18, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Your attitude from your posts are revolting and there is a reason your wife doesn't want sex with you. Your generalizations about women make me pity you and not in a "I feel sorry for you" kind of way but more of a I am sorry you are a man.
> Get off the bus. Good for you. Just stop projecting that it is a woman who is lacking.


Revolting to you, perhaps, but I'm here to talk about what's on my mind, and not to impress you personally. Women are as imperfect as men are, and I don't like how materialistic most people are. It sets the tone of our relationships.

Blaming the abused instead of the abuser is common nowadays... but it's politically correct. How can I argue?


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I do not know if this matters. I have the nice guy mentality. Some think that is bad. Because of this mentality, I think I have stuck my marriage out a lot longer then many other guys. My wife would have the same problems she has regardless of what kind of guy she married. Some think being a nice guy is week, I disagree.

A nice guy is always asking what can I do or what am I doing wrong. They bend and bend more until they can't. Then they start thinking about how bad they are feeling themselves but they do not realize it yet.

For me having sex again would make things bearable. I think many guys are the same that try to fix everything. Often sex is the first to stop at any hiccup. They identify sex as the problem because it was the first to go and it is what they need to feel worth a crap and continue on.

So us nice guys look like all we care about is sex when in reality it is a sign that we are getting close to the end after many failed attempts. We look selfish and for speaking only for myself, I felt selfish for something that is normal in a marriage. To an outsider at this stage we now look like pricks only interested in sex.

If the nice guy still can not get what he needs, even the nice guy will start thinking about cheating. Not that he will cheat, but the idea starts popping in his head. This makes the nice guy to start hating himself. I know how I could not stand to look at my self in the mirror, would cuss at my self. It will get really bad until it clicks. Hey I can not fix everything, it is not all my fault there is not much more I can do.

But the same problem is still there. Not much you can do about your urge to have sex, you need it soon. That is when a nice guy does not care anymore about being nice. It is now this needs fixed now or I am gone. He realizes there are women that would love to be with him. He lost hope in the marriage.

He will calm down again somewhat. Realize he has to make one last go round just to make sure he is not making a mistake. This is at the point I started to post here. Get fresh ideas, perhaps something I missed. I forced us both back into marriage counseling again. But now I realize I can not change her, she needs to change. I need to leave for my own sanity if she does not change.

The kicker is leaving the marriage is the ultimate 180. That may finally make her wake up, then what?


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Cheating will only make things way worse... Leave your wife first.

Cheating is never the answer.. Your wife will be more crushed if you cheat on her vs leaving her.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

well its been about 5 days but it hasnt been good.

well as the topic says: Well no, i didnt get a sex partner however a friend that is a girl who is 22 and is a bit lonely and hasnt got many friends sent me a very very random unexpected text message as she was drinking/ saying "i havent had sex in a year, ive only had one sex partner in my life i need action, Id love to try a threesome with you and your wife"

Well straight away i should have told wife or ended the message then and their. But for a guy in a sexless marriage who has tried to open up to wife and reach out to her with this topic as well as helping her with depression i acted differently. The wife has done NOTHING in any way shape or form to help this issue of ours.

So, as i tohught the text message was a bt of a joke at first and not my firend, i joked and went along with it. The next day i realised it was her and she told me she wanted a threesome, i said "this was not going to happen" However i then said " but id like it to as it sounded hot".

things got out of control for a week and i was text meesaging/emailing this girl. We were both reaching otu to eachother about our issues about both being fit and healthy but sexless. But at the end of the week we had cyber sex two nights in a row. To me, it was nothing. I was getting a little aroused and it felt good a girl talking to me like the way she was as my wife hasnt in 3 years more or less. Some of the cyber sex was pretty graphic however i always included my wife in the scenes.

The wife went into my emails for SOME reason on the weekend and found this week long email sessions. Obviously she got upset and kicked me out the house.

I know what i did was worng, but i can understand how i did this. I know 100% i would have never gone with this girl but the fantasy of it all sounded great, i can live with waht happend but i dont think my wife can, as she says its blatant CHEATING.

I told her i have tried to reach out to her and talk to her about the sex issue so much for no result, actually sometimes rude responses from her such as "its not my problem, fix yourself" WELL IT IS OUR PROBLEM NOT MINE. She has depression which is hughe but at least i talk to her and help her with it.

ANyhow im living out the house, talking just but living out.....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

brendan,

I don't get it. Why do people leave their home just because their spouse orders them out. YOu cannot be kicked out of your own home, it's your home.

Seems that your wife still does not understand the problem with the sexless marriage. :slap:


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

no, she doesnt understand. she doesnt understand as she doesnt get horny.

if she did have libido obviously she would understand.

we have a bungalow at our property so im living in that, 100metres away.its now got messy with the wife speaking to the girl who i had the sex talk with.....

i try and keep it simple.

28 year old man, no sex in marriage
22 year old girl who has only had sex once and is shy and lonely
talked to each other about sex, went to far and had cyber sex..

the end


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Hopefully someday your wife will realise that marriage takes two people. 
Hopefully someday you may understand that marriage cannot be three people. 

I'm not judging you. I've had the SAME thoughts that have posted about. I'm a woman. Except that I put those thoughts against my opinions of marriage, and they did not match. So I came to the conclusion that I had to choose marriage or getting laid for the sake of it. I further decided that getting laid isn't the same thing as sex with my husband. That's just my own personal decision, and that doesn't work for everyone. 

I also do understand your frustration. At one point, I had this posted on my fridge to ease my mind at times....

I cannot control anyone but myself. I cannot control or change another person, but I am 100% responsible for how I REACT to someone else's behavior. 

So that said... I cannot control the fact that my husband has "issues" and is not able to have sex. Much like your wife.

Only thing I can do about it is control how I react to it. 
I was VERY close to doing something similar to what you did. 
I can't even explain why I didn't do it. Maybe the fear of the aftermess. Just saying I have some empathy for where you are at now. Hope your next relationship goes better


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

brendan said:


> I know what i did was worng, but i can understand how i did this. I know 100% i would have never gone with this girl but the fantasy of it all sounded great, i can live with waht happend but i dont think my wife can, as she says its blatant CHEATING.


Hi Brendan ~

Your first thread on TAM was about you having online sex chats and asking about whether it was okay, because you didn't think it was too much of a big deal.

I think there are reasons, more than just your wife's depression, as to why she isn't interested in having sex with you. And this recent incident is likely an example of one of the reasons.

I think if you and your wife are really wanting to make a go of this marriage, then you'll both need to be really dedicated to it - her to work on the depression, and both of you to work through these issues of infidelity.

Otherwise, cut each other loose - and divorce - set each other free, as the current path you both are on is only one of destruction.

Best wishes.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

thankyou enchantment. The very few peopl i have told about what occured on the weekend have been very supportive and said they can totally understand why i had sex talk/cyber sex online with a friend.

They all say it is wrong but can see why and if wife cant fullfill this area of marriage then something was going to give.

wife and i are talking but i cant touch her, not that she hardly let me before this episode anyway. I actually feel a little relieved that this has come out now she knows how much this issue was getting to me. 

She has the same comeback everytime " im not interested in sex, I wish i was but im not, i dont want to be like this ists the depression"

or 

" its not my problem, fix yourself - i dontget horny"

well its either OUR PROBLEM or HER PROBLEM, im not the one with the problem, hope that doesnt sound rude.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

6 days later from last post: We are half talking but again we cannot communicate as a couple. Well i can, but she cant.

As strange as it sounds, we have been communicating via email. She has said what i did is cheating and everyimt she hears me speaking on the phone, or hears a text message beep she thinnks its that girl. She wants a break and try and be friends again, but doesnt want me to leave the house as it will really affect our neally 3 year old daughter.

Any thoughts on this and how long you think we could live like this, I have decided to stop puting her first all of the time and looking after myself a bit more eg. after we finish work tonight, im going off for run then dinner with mate and didnt tell her. Normally id let her know what im doing the day before or something so she knows or doesnt organise anything.

We both have a weekend off together in two weeks, im taking off for 2 days with a couple of mates...something i wouldnt normally do - stuff it.



Anyone here lived under same roof but not as married couple and not sleeping in same beds?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm sorry but if you don't get a divorce you will eventually have a full blown affair and it will devastating to your wife. Let her know that you want to leave the marriage before that happens. 

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear but I strongly believe that if things don't change for the better quickly, then an affair on your part will be inevitable.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

Let me tell you from personal experience what getting a sex partner does.

My hubby and I had sex four to five times a week and he was never satisfied. He was always into this "swing thing" and wanted me to get into it too. Yuck. Anyway, he started to swing alone behind my back and that basically ruined our sex life. God only knows where these people had been. Irregardless how many times these people say that they've been tested and disease free...yeah..sure!!

At the time, I was in no position to divorce my husband while he lied to me and told me that no..he wasn't involved in this lifestyle. I was no dummy..I read his posts online and KNEW he was sleeping with random women and doing the couples swapping thing...in fact, one of the couples he was swapping around with were acquaintances of ours.

I continued to read these chat messages from people he was swapping around with and come to find out..many of these women that were in this swing lifestyle with their husbands (which is supposed to create TRUST between couples...yeah right!!)..were stepping out on their husbands with random men while their husbands were working....niiice, huh??

All I can say is, be careful what you wish for. Many of the people that are in "open marriages"...ie..this free lifestyle swinging crap don't last and end up in divorce anyway.

Get a divorce!!


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

brendan said:


> Anyone here lived under same roof but not as married couple and not sleeping in same beds?


Some people do. 

What it sounds like you are doing is going to just live your own life, and pretend like you are not married. Do your own things. If that's where you are at, only suggestion I can make is still be respectful. Meaning don't make her worry about where you are. Let her know you aren't coming home for dinner, that sort of thing. If you are going to be room-mates, it is still respectful to do so. 

Any chance you two are going to go to counselling?


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## PaGuy (Feb 1, 2012)

Divorce. Dont add any fuel to the fire


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Brendan-

At this point I would move out and file for Divorce. I know it is easier said then done though.

You wife isn't going to change, she does have see that there is an issue..


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

deejov - we have been going to counselling once every two weeks for 3 months.

Im hoping it helps her, not so much me i dont thinnk. Wasnt happy that counsellor never talks about the sex issue...which is my major issue. As wife has depression she always talks about wifes family and how my wife is so upset she didnt have a good up bringing.

Im lucky, i have great parents and grat child hood. Sometimes i think wife is really jealous of that.

We had a great day yesterday but who wouldnt, when we went out for lunch with daughtter, went shopping and spent $300 then went car shopping.

Its in the house where the problem is: She gets up this mornign and im all keen to do some things around the house where she just sits and watches TV while in facebook. I knew depression does that and she has no energy but its really hard on me. The no sex issue is just the cream on top.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

brendan said:


> ive posted a few times last year, long story short.
> 
> Been married 1 1/2 years only sex 3 times and more info below,
> 
> ...


Don't do it behind her back. As many people on here know, I tried and got caught and it wasn't worth it. I did it to run from problems that should have been faced and dealt with. I have my angry two cents about your friends' ethics, but I will keep that to myself as I'm sure everyone on here is going to verbally ro you a new one as it is. Here's my thoughts on your situation:

If she finds out, it will kill her. Seeing the pain I caused my boyfriend made me feel terrible. And knowing I caused it? Hard to live with that.

I suggest really thinking if losing her is worth sex. If it is, yoy might want to consider divorce. Even if by some chance you never get caught, there's many more complications. What if you fall in love with that woman? What if you and your wife continue to grow farther and farther apart? What if the reason she won't have sex is fixable and you are ****ing some other woman so you don't care to fix it and she stays miserable until she finally divorces you?

You should sit down with her, put your needs aside, ask her why she thinks she might have a low libido. Work with her and be patient and non accusatory. Do some house work (no joke this works) and give it a few months. If it doesn't work, TELL HER that you're going to get anotger partner and let her make some agreed upon rules. Also be open to her having another partner. It's called an open relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> Don't do it behind her back. As many people on here know, I tried and got caught and it wasn't worth it. I did it to run from problems that should have been faced and dealt with. I have my angry two cents about your friends' ethics, but I will keep that to myself as I'm sure everyone on here is going to verbally ro you a new one as it is. Here's my thoughts on your situation:
> 
> If she finds out, it will kill her. Seeing the pain I caused my boyfriend made me feel terrible. And knowing I caused it? Hard to live with that.
> 
> ...


while i dont entirely disagree with your idea, i find it interesting that a LD partner needs to be enlightened that the lack of sex is a real problem in thier marriage. are LD people really so clueless that they believe the HD partner is going to sit around in a sexless marriage?


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## Zhopa (Jan 18, 2012)

Yes.

And they have political correctness on their side.



okeydokie said:


> ...are LD people really so clueless that they believe the HD partner is going to sit around in a sexless marriage?


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

okeydokie said:


> while i dont entirely disagree with your idea, i find it interesting that a LD partner needs to be enlightened that the lack of sex is a real problem in thier marriage. are LD people really so clueless that they believe the HD partner is going to sit around in a sexless marriage?


LD and HD? Not sure what you mean by those terms, but I am fully aware that she probably knows this is an issue. But she might have a really good reason for not wanting to have sex that she just won't talk about. Pressuring someone into sex is kind of a social faux pa. Trying to get someone to have sex with you when they don't want to never goes over too well with anyone, even if you're not meaning to pressure them.

His needs are just as important as hers, but I think in order for him to get his needs met without resentment from his wife, he needs to meet hers first. Cheating really isn't going to do him any good.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> His needs are just as important as hers, but I think in order for him to get his needs met without resentment from his wife, he needs to meet hers first. Cheating really isn't going to do him any good.


I dislike statements like this. It makes an assumption that he is not meeting her needs. If the roles were reversed people would be saying he should see a doctor. 

LD = low drive
HD= high drive


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Does she keep a death grip on her phone? do you see her emails/texts?

Do you see her facebook messages? 

What kind of birth control does she use?


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

CrazyGuy said:


> I dislike statements like this. It makes an assumption that he is not meeting her needs. If the roles were reversed people would be saying he should see a doctor.
> 
> LD = low drive
> HD= high drive


I dislike that you imply I would say if the roles were reversed, he'd need to go see a doctor. I am well-aware that in many cases of a guy not being able to get it up, it's psychological. Which is often caused by performance anxiety. Which can be caused by his partner or simply by low self esteem. Or it could be stress. Or it could be that their relationship is not in a healthy state and he does not want to be affectionate towards her.

I'm not blaming him, either. If there is problems in their relationship, they both made them. If she has depression, she needs help and possibly better medicine. I wouldn't worry about side effects of the meds causing a lowered libido, because if her depression is under control, she is more likely to want to be intimate with him. I've got depression- when I'm depressed really bad, I don't want to do a damn thing, nonetheless get it on.

I'm simply saying that if someone does not want to have sex, there is a reason. If you can't be patient enough with someone to work together to solve that issue, then you shouldn't be married.

However, if she's not willing to talk to you and work with you and you've been as patient as possible and tried all that you can, I think you should talk to her about an open relationship with the likelihood of dissolving the marriage after the kids are gone. Or, if you don't mind (IDK where you stand on the issue), dissolving it now.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> I dislike that you imply I would say if the roles were reversed, he'd need to go see a doctor.


I did not imply you would say this. I said "If the roles were reversed* people* would be saying he should see a doctor." 

And just because a guy does not want sex does not mean he has some type of ED.

Some people can have great lives and not a worry in the world and still not be interested in sex. Everybody is different. They do not see it as important. No matter what you do they will never get it. They rather brush the dog's hair before thinking about sex. In fact they do not even think about sex.

Often if a guy is complaining about his wife he is analyzed quickly that he may be the reason for the problem.(insert long list of things to win her over then have her see a doctor) If the woman is complaining about her husband the guy is still at fault.(see doctor first and short list) It is just a pattern I see.

Sometimes people marry to somebody that is just a good provider and are not attracted to them sexually. Good luck getting an honest answer from these type of people.


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## lonleme (Feb 2, 2012)

You know I use to agree that you should get a divorce first but now I am not sure..... Women if they are not getting the emotional support at home they will go and find it else where..... however if men are not getting their needs met by their wive ...i.e. sex, we are not to go and get it somewhere else....

cheating is not only about sex , it is a state of mind, cheating on the emotional level is just as bad , maybe worse than sexual cheating


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

Brendan, what did I say about insanity?

I see nothing but heartbreak from here. Wife is unwilling to meet him even part way. Wife hates this other girl but won't address what led Brendan to her. I agree with Atholk when he says that she doesn't respect him.

If Brendan continues down the current path, wife won't change. And why should she? She already has everything she needs. Brendan will find himself in an affair sooner or later, might be 6 months, might be 3 more years of this, the temptation will just be too huge to shut down. I've seen this happen to men I know. In every case, they wanted to take their fidelity seriously, but for whatever reasons, their wives eventually stopped helping them maintain that fidelity. Might have been him, might have been her, whatever, it happened and the sex life broke down.

Brendan, you need to go back to working 50 hours/week and pay for babysitter/nanny/caretaker, whatever is needed at home. You need to restore the leader role that you had before the marriage. You should push her to get involved in some local volunteer activity that gets her making it about other people. Doesn't have to be a big thing, a few hours a week would work. This will change the dynamic. Wife won't like it, consider that a fitness test, but there is the chance that she may regain her respect for you. It sucks sometimes that a wife's view of her husband is often dependent on his provider role, but that is the reality of many if not most marriages and I think it is the reality of your marriage as well.

Divorce may end up being your best option. Perhaps the threat of it will get her to act when all else fails.

Good luck.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

ZZyzx - agree on a lot that you said. I admit i shouldnt have had a 2 week textmsg/email affair (if you want to call it that with a girl).

But i try to explain the reason why it happened, eg. we dont communicate etc/ no sex etc.

She see it as blatant cheating which it probably is in most other cases but not in ours, as i believe i was cheating as we werent lovers anyway and it was a sexual out....

Anyway last two weeks have been good actually even though im living out of house in bungalow. trying to act more as friends and we have actually had some fun and i feel less stressed that this is sort of out. However not sure how long i can go liek this.

maybe 3/6 months who knows....but i think she knows im not going to stay around like this for ever and she has been doing heaps around house and talking to me and treating me better. maybe a wake up call perhaps

Its amazing although what i did 2 1/2 weeks ago was wrong and most classfiy it as cyber sex cheating, most that know about it support me 100% which is nice.

ILL Check back in a few days


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Sometimes it is the wake up call that is needed for both spouses to work on making things better. Hopefully it turns out that way for you.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

brendan said:


> well its been about 5 days but it hasnt been good.
> 
> well as the topic says: Well no, i didnt get a sex partner however a friend that is a girl who is 22 and is a bit lonely and hasnt got many friends sent me a very very random unexpected text message as she was drinking/ saying "i havent had sex in a year, ive only had one sex partner in my life i need action, Id love to try a threesome with you and your wife"
> 
> ...


I don't think she's ever going to have sex with you now, unless it's jealous "please don't leave me" sex. My boyfriend just admitted to me that he had been watching porn for nine months. This hurts for many reasons. I kind of deserved it for what I did (although this happened way before I emailed the other man) but knowing that he saw those sexy girls that can do things I cannot (but not for lack of not trying!) eats me up. I feel like a fool trying to compete with those women. He's not huge, but I do have a freaking gag reflex! And also I worry about gay porn.

I know that emailing someone and having cyber sex helps- it's a great relief. I wish that I had only done that and not planned to meet the guy. Also, I bet the emotional affair hurts your wife.

If you cheat, it will hurt you, too. Believe me, no matter how bad it is, if you love someone it hurts to leave without making yourself hate them- and if you hate them you will be bitter and miserable too.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

well after 2 weeks of actually trying to be friends i guess it was never going to work. the last 2 nights produced big fights.

Started with me just trying to communicate as usuall and her saying she deosnt think she will ever forgive me for my sex messaging with another girl(cheating).tried to tell her why i did it as no sex in years but no, she was having none of it.

anyway after an hour of yelling finally she got a lof off her chest which what ive been waitig for for so long, since marriage she is upset with me and thinks i act like an old man and never want to do anything (im shocked at this) i ask what in particular and she says night clubbing etc. Well im sorry my night clubbing days finsihed a couple of years ago, im neally 29. i sitll go once or twicwe a year but hey.

my answer: i dont think i act like an old grump nag and dont want to do anything, i actually think im closer to the opposite. maybe on a sat night sometimes i chose to watch sport or have some sports bets going over going out once or twice, because it was a cold winters nighta nd i just worked 10 hours. But yes i have no drive to go nightclubbing with her anymore unless it was a birthday or special occasion possibly. the girls she goes out with are 20/21 she is 27. i also feel old around them if i went clubbing.


she also feels she has to get approval off me for everything.

my answer: i think this is crap but yes on major family deciosns such as girls nights out id like her to let me know so i can at least organise work so i can look after my child. and if she works 9-5 then goes to friends from 5-7pm. please let me know so i know whats going on in terms of looking after child and i might have had plans myself at six.
big decisons such as withdrawin $300 out bank, id like to know what for (not saying she does often) or if she is going out with girls can i get more than 24 houtrs notice so i dont make plans or have plans to work on farm project.

She feels im a grumpy nag and nag her all the time.

my answr: my nagging is trying to help her through depression but as ive read, its best not for husnamd to try help as its seen as nagging. eg. darling u should cut down on coke as counsellor says (so she drinks more)??? a form of rebellion.

and she feels its all aboutt the farm with me.

my answer: yes i spend maybe 2 hours a day doing jobs on our hobby farm but always have time for family/child as i only do about 25 hrs work away from farm.

and i cant control my sex thinking.

my answer: well 5 times in 3 years is ridiculius, i dont blame you entirely but there are other ways ive helping eg. handjob or masturbation with me (shes says well i didnt want to)


well was happy its all out, and we agreed to seperate, she says shes not moving (well i cant see her running the (small) farm by herslf. She cant even bring the bin in or do hardly any gardening.
So for now i will stay here but look at ideas. I cant see how she can stay here but she says shes not moving. The place will become a wreck. Maybe i rent a place down the road, well im not sure yet..will see. Best interests for family would be she move out with daughter and i stay at the house/farm as at least i can mow, feed horses/stock etc.

well i better start releasing my voice on the seperation thread, thanks to all that helped.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

just read my post and before i get nailed for not going out with her. by nightclubbing i mean clubs from midnight to 4am type clubs. We go out for tea and have drinks out and pubs till 9/10pm ish often/weekly.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Brendan, it sounds like you need to up your alpha game considerably.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MSP said:


> Brendan, it sounds like you need to up your alpha game considerably.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

And I'm wondering if, as happens here so often, the reason she doesn't need sex from you is because of the GNOs. I would be looking into that.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

You are being self centered. Your needs are no more important than hers. You might feel your need is more realistic, but that does not matter. If your wife needed you to dress up as a hamburger and let her pour ketchup on you, it's still a need.

Think about your kids and your marriage. Your daughter does not deserve to be abandon because your wife is stubborn and you can't control your ****. (You still deserve to get your needs met- just not by makibg your daughter suffer.) Crawl back to her on your knees and beg her to go to counseling with you. Don't make excuses for what you did- you did it out of your own free will because you were selfish. If you knew the pain a divorce would cause your children, you would be in tears knowing you hurt then so much. Even though your wife is beubg a ***** to you, you still loved her once.

Find time to take your wife out to a club this weekend. You're going to go as much as she wants. Tell her all you expect in return is that she tries to have sex when she's comfortable. Dance dirty with her and flirt with her. Be nice to her friends and be involved with whatever group you are in, but pay special attention to her. Afterwards, ask her if thete's anything she wants to do and do it with her. (Movies, late night dinner, shopping, etc.) Then when you get home, tell her you miss seeing her happy and you want her to be happy again. Offer a massage or a shower. She might want to have sex after this, but don't ask for it or pressure her (best if you don't mention it at all). She will eventually.

The rest of the time, quit nagging her. Ask her politely for help doing housework. For example, if you're doing the dishes and she's on the computer, come behind her and massage her shoulders and say "honey would you help me with the dishes? I just want to talk, it's lonely in the kitchen." And just chat with her and have fun doing something together- I suggest getting in a water fight, because idk why but water fights and mud fights really people relax and sometimes leads to sex- but don't ask for it and don't get disappointed when you don't get it.

Then you need to apologize to your kids (can't remember if it's just your daughter or you have more). You almost tore apart their home and betrayed their mother for sex. Tnei don't deserve that. Take them and your wife our to do something fun. Depending on how old they are, you can ask them if they could do anything what would they do, then no matter what it is do it. I've heard that this is something marriage counselors use.

When you finally do have sex, be thankful. Tell her you want sex to be fun for her. What I did for my boyfriend is ask him what his fantasies were in the heat of the moment and said I want to fulfill all of them. We ended up sharing some of our deepest, darkest fantasies and having amazing passionate sex. This is after I just discovered he had been watching porn for almost a year behind my back and he found emails between me and a guy I met on craigslist to hook up with for sex and I had sex anxiety and having sex with me made him nervous. Now it's great. If we can do it, you can do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

chapparal said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> And I'm wondering if, as happens here so often, the reason she doesn't need sex from you is because of the GNOs. I would be looking into that.


Ok, I don't remember the entire thread but this is a serious consideration now. She goes to GNO and she has 20-21 age friends? Recipe for disaster. 5 times sex in 3 years will be at the bottom of even low sex marriages. I can only think that there is a high possibility that she getting some on the side. This should be a major concern for you. These friends live a very single life and can be very bad influence on a married women. And the things she has a problem with you, point to that direction. All this time I was thinking your wife as someone who is very religious and repressed sexually. Her concerns with you tell me a different story. 

Ever heard of Keyloggers?


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

sleepless in vancouver (your about 6 months behind) tried all that.

Warlock: havent heard of keyloggers but will look into it.

Her firends all have boyfriends, sometimes they go out clubbing sometimes not. But they have no house/child/responsibilities. I know she isnt cheating. Not she isnt religious, just doesnt get horny anymore and has depression. BUT has so much energy for those nightclubs, not often.only once a month or so but its always on my weekend off....not good.

anyway. another big fight last night and now she is putting our fights on facebook (very mature) its starting to get ugly. NOt sure what i should do, possibly rent a place down the road for the time being. She blames the 2 week cyber sex for our split 95% of problem. I said i think it contributed for sure but only 10% as have no sex and wilfe wasnt willing to talk o even answer emails.


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## Sleepless_in_Vancouver (Jan 15, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Ok, I don't remember the entire thread but this is a serious consideration now. She goes to GNO and she has 20-21 age friends? Recipe for disaster. 5 times sex in 3 years will be at the bottom of even low sex marriages. I can only think that there is a high possibility that she getting some on the side. This should be a major concern for you. These friends live a very single life and can be very bad influence on a married women. And the things she has a problem with you, point to that direction. All this time I was thinking your wife as someone who is very religious and repressed sexually. Her concerns with you tell me a different story.
> 
> Ever heard of Keyloggers?


Seriously? Women need girl's nights out. Men have football games and bars and barbecues. I think being suspicious of her hanging out with friends is controlling and unhealthy. I wouldn't encourage that behavior.

I'm 20 and have two friends brenden's wife's age. I've studied with them, played board games and watched movies with their friends, been invited for a hair dye night and once had an alcoholic hot chocolate. My bff had friends even older thsn that n they do nothing bad together. Who in their right mind would go on a girl's night out to have sex?? Ditching your friends to get laid is rude!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

sleepless, you're the one not being realistic here. I agree that divorce is no good for the kid and that Brendan should be trying everything from his end from that point of view. But a reconciliation requires *BOTH* parties to play and she is clearly in total denial of her part in the destruction of their marriage. That doesn't spell someone who's willing to step up to the plate.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> Seriously? Women need girl's nights out. Men have football games and bars and barbecues. I think being suspicious of her hanging out with friends is controlling and unhealthy. I wouldn't encourage that behavior.
> 
> I'm 20 and have two friends brenden's wife's age. I've studied with them, played board games and watched movies with their friends, been invited for a hair dye night and once had an alcoholic hot chocolate. My bff had friends even older thsn that n they do nothing bad together. Who in their right mind would go on a girl's night out to have sex?? Ditching your friends to get laid is rude!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If your suggesting GNOs, as in girls going out night clubbing where people are drinking and guys and girls are trying to get laid, then no, married women do not do that unless they no longer want to be married. You have a lot of growing up to do. Experience is the best teacher and I have a lot of that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You may have answered this already but what type of birth control does she use?

Have you been here?

Married Man Sex Life


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> If your wife needed you to dress up as a hamburger and let her pour ketchup on you, it's still a need.


Is it wrong that I find this strangely exciting?


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

she doesnt and hasnt used birth control for a year, doesnt need too.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

brendan said:


> she doesnt and hasnt used birth control for a year, doesnt need too.


The reason I asked is there was a thread here about a long term birth control med that completely wiped out a wifes sex drive. Even after it was stopped.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

It's really impossible to give exact advice here without hearing from theother side. Always 2 sides to every storey, but if what you're saying is true, this marriage is doomed.

The only thing that's keeping you together is Brenden. If you don't call it quits, she will. It's only a matter of time and who gets in first.

My suggestion is you be the first one. (It will probably come as a relief to her anyway). That way, you'll regain your self esteem and take back control of your life.

As for Sleepless, she's being sarcastic. A mini ha haa if you like. Please don't take her too serious.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Sleepless_in_Vancouver said:


> You are being self centered. Your needs are no more important than hers. You might feel your need is more realistic, but that does not matter. If your wife needed you to dress up as a hamburger and let her pour ketchup on you, it's still a need.
> 
> Think about your kids and your marriage. Your daughter does not deserve to be abandon because your wife is stubborn and you can't control your ****. (You still deserve to get your needs met- just not by makibg your daughter suffer.) Crawl back to her on your knees and beg her to go to counseling with you. Don't make excuses for what you did- you did it out of your own free will because you were selfish. If you knew the pain a divorce would cause your children, you would be in tears knowing you hurt then so much. Even though your wife is beubg a ***** to you, you still loved her once.
> 
> ...


Your post reeks of utter right wing feminism. Sex is an integral part of a marriage. He should not have to jump through hooplas to have sex with his wife. That guy had sex 5 times in 3 years!! Haven't you read his posts at all? 



> Your daughter does not deserve to be abandon because your wife is stubborn and you can't control your ****.


Saying this is utter immaturity and lack of empathy on your part. *Especially from YOU!!!*


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

thats right diolay.

two sides two every story....

eg. wife wants to go out nightclubbing this saturday night and me have daughter. i said this is bull****, you always go out on my weekends off. so she tells her friends im angry thats she going out and now friends think im a sook, doesnt explain im angry the fact its always on my weekend offf.....

anyway, we are off to our possibly last marriage counsellor session today, a 2 hour session. everything has to come out. but we are both not wearing our rings now and all but over. will be interesting.

i do love my wife, well the one i was with for 4 years before marriage day. we do live a pretty cruisey life but not healthy as married couple. i want it to work but dont think it will whilst she has this depression and world is against me attitude and in a sexless marriage


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

If there is one thing I have noticed too is that people who put more emphisis ontheir social life, GNO etc, seem to do more damage than porn or any other thing. Even affairs. While these things seem to cause damage to relationships, it is often curable as both sides are more attentive to working it out. (This is apart from serial cheats). 

However, party animals rarely admit they are the problem. That what they are doing is neglecting their partner. In their eyes, they seem to see it as they are spending time with their partner and doing their part in cementing the relationship. WHile in some circles, this may work, in many cases it doesn't. 

One partner has a tendancy to feel that the person they are with is enough. They want to settle down, start a family and fall into the role of Mr and Mrs Citizen. The other partner isn't ready for this life and enjoy the bright lights, loud music and the social company of many friends. For them, friends become more important than their partner and place them first.

As the ressentment builds in one of the partners, the resistance grows stronger. The party animal begins to feel trapped and suffocates while the other partner feels neglected. 

Once this happens, the relationship is doomed.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

Counselling yesterday all but ended our marriage and the last 30mins was on how to sperate nicely and try to remain friends for childs sake.

A lot came out and she grilled us but was needed,

+ counsellor appologises for not talking abotut he sexless marriage issue earlier on.
+Counsellor says sex 5 times 3 years is very unhealthy and even though i had a 2 week cyber sex, sex text messaging thing with a girl the fact i never strayed in the last three years shows that i love my wife(hearing that was refreashing)

+ she asked wife if she think she could forgive me ever for text messasing cyber sex cheating, wife said NO

+ asked wife if marriage is over in her opinion, she says YES

+ Counsellor started to grill my wife which was good saying a lot of her excuses were not valid. eg. now she thinks she cant have sex because she is getting fat, Shes put on weight but only 80k.g. Counsellor says no offence to my wife but this is crap as i have a lot of fat girls on the books and they have sex like rabbits.

+said since counselling started 3/4 months ago she feels brendan has made more of an effort to change things that wife.

+the fact that we dont even snuggle in bed or kiss and cuddle is not very good at all as even the couples shes counselled that fight non stop always seem to forgive when in bed and cuddle up, says the ones that cuddle up at night in bed after argument are ones that survive.

+ wants us to prepare for breakup, wants one to move out if theres no more chance of us getting back together and preferably me in the hobby farm house as its high maintance and wife couldnt do daily chores, but wife says she will manage. to start with counsellor wants us to live close by for daughters sake.

+said there is no more she can do to save marriage and its up to us now but feels it may be over too, wants us to write a list of what the other person wants in the next few months eg. moving out/where to live etc and exhancge with eachother in a few days.

+says wife still has bad depression and wants her to see another specialist for a one off, says she is not over child hood issues. says im a concrete solid guy.

then i went to work and drove home in tears. will check in later then back in a few days....got to stay positive with my life though.


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

Sorry to hear that your wife has chosen to deprive your daughter of her father at least some of the time rather than work on her end of the marriage. I know you did not want to go down that road, but it is what it is. Best wishes for an amicable divorce.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The good news is you are now on the road to finding a woman who knows what love means.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

yes true - although hard to look at it like that at this stage.

counsellor wants us in next couple of days to write dot points on what we want when we split or what was needed if we try and be friends under the house for a while which she believes will not work and doesnt normally work.

by what we want i dont mean belongings i mean, who is to move out and when and responsibilities with daughter/work/bills etc.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

we did this and have been getting on as friends well, but she said its over as she cant trust me after 2 weeks of sex mesaging, pleeeaaasseee - we had bigger problems than that one being the NO SEX.

on a different note i had a few beers with some boys last night and we spoke abotu how much sex they get, these guys were all ages and sizes from 18years old till 65. And they all get more or less nothing now. I couldnt believe it.

my mate who is 21 and been with girlfriend for 3 years only gets sex once a month (what the).

Ant the boys who were 50 and been married 25 years said about once very 2 to 3 months.....i was shocked.

i thougt i was like the only one, like once ever six months. whats wrong with these women. most are happily married but no sex.hmmm


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Divorce: Is it the Answer? - Focus on the Family

Did you buy the book at 

Married Man Sex Life


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

thank am concentrating on daughter...she is moving out next week not far away.

very sad, but had to happen. we are having aughter 50/50.
we are being very nice to eachother at this stage and helping eachothr through t which i really respect her for that.

but fear she will play dirty like a lot of women do very soon, and have already over heard her friends on the phone say take him for everything hes got.


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