# No sex or any kind of physical touch for 8 years



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Yes, you read that right. 8 years. I've posted before about my relationship with my husband and how I told him I'd never been in love with him. That was about 8 years ago. I can understand why he totally withdrew, physically and emotionally, after hearing this. I said I would leave, but he wanted me to stay, so I have.

Now, 8 years after I first told him about my feelings, we are together, but our relationship is, and has been for 8 years, totally platonic. No hand holding, kissing, or anything. He says that there are all kinds of marriages (in response to a recent comment I made that ours isn't normal). We hardly ever talk about the situation, but I recently asked him if he remembered what I said about never being in love with him, and he said no, he didn't remember. So I guess he isn't mad about it anymore?? If not, then can't we try to fix the relationship? He doesn't seem to want to and prefers to act like nothing is wrong.

My question to the group is, is this what marriages normally are like as time goes on? We have been married 34 years and are both in our late 50's. Neither of us has ever dated anyone else. He has a lot of women friends and recently was with one of them until 1 am on a weeknight, fixing her washing machine, he said. I just have a very hard time thinking he's having an affair as he is very honorable (and stubborn) about any promise or vow he makes.

Unfortunately, I took to food as a love substitute and have gained 40 pounds in the last 2-3 years. He doesn't say anything about it, and we were platonic way before the weight gain, but now I would feel gross and ugly were he inclined to see me without all my clothes on (he hasn't for years).

So is this just how it gets after so many years?


I


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You broke him. Sorry about that, but you did. I suppose you can fix him too, if you want to. But it sounds like you're hoping he'll magically pick up the ball and run with it.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Wait, 8 years ago you told your husband that you never loved him, all sex and affection completely stopped at that point and NOW you're wondering if this is normal?

Good lord where to even begin?

What do you want? Describe how you want your marriage to function in terms of sex and affection?

If your husband told you that he never loved you, how would you respond?


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

What is it that you want?

OK to answer your question your marriage situation is pretty unusual. Very few couples can keep it together in the complete absence of physical intimacy.
MN


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Yes I did marry him, but for security and stability. We were both only 23, and as I said Neither of us ever dated anyone else. We were friends and had fun times together. We dated 5 years before marrying, so staying together was most likely a bit of habit, too. My fault for mistaking all of this for love.

I have apologized, but he didn't remember what I was apologizing for. He says he doesn't recall me saying I didn't love him, which I find hard to believe.

What do I want? I can tell you that I want some kind of intimacy. I've told him that even with couples who for physical reasons can't have sex, there are other ways of being intimate. He agreed, and I suggested holding hands, kissing, even just sharing jokes, but nothing has changed. I try to make conversation when we are together, but it always seems forced and uncomfortable. 

I'm not able to keep pretending to the outside world that we have a happy marriage. We live separate lives. His passion is being in charge of the audio at our very large Church; he would rather do that than spend any time with me, that's for sure. We haven't slept in the same bed for I don't know how long. He stopped wearing his wedding ring 15-20 years ago, long before I finally took mine off (he can't wear it at work, but stopped wearing it at all).

I know I broke him. It's my fault and I feel guilty all the time --that's what has made me stay in this relationship. As far as for him magically making things better, that's very romantic, but he doesn't want to talk about it. 
Recently he told me he was giving me the same kind of marriage my parents had, which is true. I told him I didn't want that. Why would anyone want a non-intimate marriage? I want to either try and fix this or get out. Sometimes it's better to be alone.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Go get in bed with him. Make physical contact. Give him shoulder rubs.

Be prepared for rejection. Stick at it.

Talking about the past is important but after you break through.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I could never be intimate with someone who doesn't love me. I suppose I could have a one night stand, but not real intimacy.


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

HiMaint57 said:


> Y
> I know I broke him. It's my fault and I feel guilty all the time --that's what has made me stay in this relationship. As far as for him magically making things better, that's very romantic, but he doesn't want to talk about it.
> Recently he told me he was giving me the same kind of marriage my parents had, which is true. I told him I didn't want that. Why would anyone want a non-intimate marriage? I want to either try and fix this or get out. Sometimes it's better to be alone.


You did not break him. Maybe he can't anymore and it is convenient not to pursue you.


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

HiMaint57 said:


> What do I want? I can tell you that I want some kind of intimacy. *I've told him that even with couples who for physical reasons can't have sex, there are other ways of being intimate. * He agreed, and I suggested holding hands, kissing, even just sharing jokes, but nothing has changed. I try to make conversation when we are together, but it always seems forced and uncomfortable.


Not at all the same situation. The couples you refer to, mostly had sex before being unable, and would still be having sex if not for the physical issue. They still have that connection. I'm sure there are couples that have intimacy and hate sex but I'm guessing that they are rare. 

You never loved him and don't want to have sex, is that right? Asking him for intimacy under those conditions is probably going to be like torture for him in the same way that you giving him sex is going to be like torture for you.


----------



## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

You gotta be kidding me, people are trying to give advice to reconcile this? EIGHT YEARS?!!? For perspective, I've been with my current company for nine years. I'm trying to imagine, what if I essentially did nothing every day I came to work. What if no one cared about my work product, if I never got any phone calls or emails, if I never got a raise (while already making crap money).... I'm trying to imagine going to my boss and saying, "I think I should be promoted."

Your marriage is absolute in the s**ter. It's garbage. EIGHT YEARS! My opinion, the only hope in hell you actually have in any way shape or form, is to split up, form independent lives and then see if you have any interest whatsoever in spending time together then. You two have never even DATED anyone else in your whole lives? Man....there's a world out there....go check it out.


----------



## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

intheory said:


> Is going to church for counseling possible?


Alternatively, you could actually seek out a qualified counselor.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

changedbeliefs said:


> Alternatively, you could actually seek out a qualified counselor.


or a qualified lawyer.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> or a qualified lawyer.


This is what will work, but it won't happen because they're both lazy passionless people. It's easier to slowly die in moderate discontent than it is to actually work on themselves and their marriage. Nothing will change because change takes effort, and effort takes a certain amount of confidence in the outcome. Neither have either.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I could never be intimate with someone who doesn't love me. I suppose I could have a one night stand, but not real intimacy.


Also i could never be sexually intimate with someone I didn't love.
This brings up an interesting point which I have often seen when someone says "I never really loved him/her" often they have some sort of confusion about what love is. Your craving for intimacy with this man is an indicator of your love for him. Butterflies are not love.

Often when a relationship has been sexless for some time trust disappears. You don't make an advance because you don't trust him not to reject your advance. He rejects an advance because he fears getting his hopes up, only to find this is a short term thing.

In order to build trust you are going to have to start taking some risks. And, sadly, you are going to get a few rejections. Climbing into his bed for a cuddle is an excellent suggestion, but it may be too soon for that. I think non touching intimacy is a better start. If you have separate bedrooms start changing in his room. This is a nice symbolic act that says I trust you. It requires nothing from him. If he asks why just say that you wanted him to see you. You should also make an effort to touch him every day. Soon he will feel more comfortable with you in intimate situations. Then cuddling can happen.
MN


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You wanted to leave him at on time, tell him you are leaving and if he says bye then you know how he feels about you and there is no chance that will change after all of these years. You are both staying in this relationship because it's familiar, if you want love and passion you are going to need to find someone else. He shut down years ago. I'm not sure why after 8 years you all of sudden want a physical relationship with him especially after you told him you didn't love him.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Anon Pink, not lazy and passionless, we are both avoiders by nature. My parents didn't talk about anything meaningful, and often didn't talk at all. His parents screamed their way through 49 years of marriage. We grew up in totally different environments yet we handle confrontation the same way -- don't do it. Ignore and it will go away. I think I'm a very passionate, romantic person. He is very logical, but passionate about things he cares about, such as the church audio volunteer position I mentioned earlier. I have a great deal of respect for his dedication and devotion to this position. Sorry, I'm getting off topic. But lazy and without passion? Disagree.

I have tried to confront the situation several times, but he acts as though he can't wait for the discussion to be over as it's not always logical.
There were very good times in the marriage; he used to love sex and intimacy. So did I. I guess I should have kept my mouth shut about not being in love with him. And now I'm getting what I deserve.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Happily married, this isn't the first time I've wanted to try and fix the relationship. Now I've come to a point that I can't pretend any longer that this is what a marriage should be like. I thoughts that before taking any action to leave, I would ask the forum if by any chance 55 is the end of the line for sex and intimacy four other couples, too (I suspected it wasn't).

I suspect I should have left long ago.


----------



## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

HiMaint57 said:


> Happily married, this isn't the first time I've wanted to try and fix the relationship. Now I've come to a point that I can't pretend any longer that this is what a marriage should be like. I thoughts that before taking any action to leave, I would ask the forum if by any chance 55 is the end of the line for sex and intimacy four other couples, too (I suspected it wasn't).
> 
> I suspect I should have left long ago.



I'm 55 (be 56 Friday) looks like it's the "end of the line" for me, Don't know why, it just happened. I didn't think it was supposed to be like this either. Wife's still friendly & nice to me. Just detatched. It all started a couple of years ago.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

flyer said:


> I'm 55 (be 56 Friday) looks like it's the "end of the line" for me, Don't know why, it just happened. I didn't think it was supposed to be like this either. Wife's still friendly & nice to me. Just detatched. It all started a couple of years ago.


You should start your own thread so you can get support.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

HiMaint57,

Yes there is a possibility that it can be turned around.


Start by reading the book "Divorce Busters". Pay special attention to the chapter on the 180. .. it's not the 180 every around here gives to betrayed souses. Its' your own, custom 180.


That is just step #1.


Get a good sex therapist (on your own) and ask them for tips. I have read some things that they suggest to get a sex life back on track after a long time of no sex.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

HiMaint57 said:


> Anon Pink, not lazy and passionless, we are both avoiders by nature. My parents didn't talk about anything meaningful, and often didn't talk at all. His parents screamed their way through 49 years of marriage. We grew up in totally different environments yet we handle confrontation the same way -- don't do it. Ignore and it will go away. I think I'm a very passionate, romantic person. He is very logical, but passionate about things he cares about, such as the church audio volunteer position I mentioned earlier. I have a great deal of respect for his dedication and devotion to this position. Sorry, I'm getting off topic. But lazy and without passion? Disagree.
> 
> I have tried to confront the situation several times, but he acts as though he can't wait for the discussion to be over as it's not always logical.
> There were very good times in the marriage; he used to love sex and intimacy. So did I. I guess I should have kept my mouth shut about not being in love with him. And now I'm getting what I deserve.


I know all about avoiders, I married one. They are indeed lazy, emotionally lazy people. It takes effort to confront a problem, nothing to avoid it. It takes effort to work on issues, takes nothing to ignore them.

So yes, emotionally lazy people who place passion way down on the list of priorities because the most important priority is to NOT confront a problem.

You avoided the sexless and affectionless state of your marriage for 8 years. What are you willing to do to make your marriage emotionally connected, physically affectionate and filled with passion for each other?


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

HiMaint--you've stated several times that you desire to improve/fix your marriage, but I haven't seen you state anywhere that you actually love your husband now. If you do love him now, what changed? If you still do not love him, why in the world would you want to continue a sham of a marriage?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

HiMaint57 said:


> Happily married, this isn't the first time I've wanted to try and fix the relationship. Now I've come to a point that I can't pretend any longer that this is what a marriage should be like. I thoughts that before taking any action to leave, I would ask the forum if by any chance 55 is the end of the line for sex and intimacy four other couples, too (I suspected it wasn't).
> 
> I suspect I should have left long ago.


I'm 52, my H is 56, we have better and more sex now than 20 years ago. 

You have to define what you want your marriage to look like, communicate that exact image to your H, then ask if he is willing to work with you to make that happen. Be prepared for stonewalling and false starts. Chances are, nothing much will change because he is an avoider and so are you. 

You have to be prepared to fight hard and dirty for the marriage you want to have. You can avoid sticky issues, you can allow excuses or bull crap to prevent progress.

Are you willing to fight for your marriage! Even if it means you're going to have be uncomfortable?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Just curious... would you be at all upset if you were to discover that he'd been involved w/ another woman -- or _other women_ -- over the course of the past 8 years?


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

So you never loved him, told him that to his face, did not even have the courtesy to leave after ripping his heart out and now you expect him to comfort you after a lifetime of mistreatment by you?


----------



## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> So you never loved him, told him that to his face, did not even have the courtesy to leave after ripping his heart out and now you expect him to comfort you after a lifetime of mistreatment by you?




OP, interesting that you refer to yourself as "Hi Maint" when you aren't.

Stop beating yourself up over an 8yo outburst- seriously! What is "love"? Look at 1 Cor 13 and Golde Do you Love Me?

The opposite of love is apathy. Are you apathetic? Is your H?

I suggest you work on yourself- exercise, lose the weight, get healthy. And try this for your M: Marriage Help Program For Couples


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I wouldn't say it's just an 8 year old outburst. According to her previous threads about this same topic (from two years ago) she made the decision to start sleeping apart from him as well.


----------



## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

HiMaint57 said:


> Happily married, this isn't the first time I've wanted to try and fix the relationship. Now I've come to a point that I can't pretend any longer that this is what a marriage should be like. I thoughts that before taking any action to leave, I would ask the forum if by any chance 55 is the end of the line for sex and intimacy four other couples, too (I suspected it wasn't).
> 
> I suspect I should have left long ago.


The question here really is just what is your definition of a marriage. You cut ties with intimacy when you told your husband that you never loved him 8 years ago- more aptly, you severed ties. You decided that you would stay with him at that time status-quo, and now 8 years later you are expecting HIM to initiate some change...and without ever sitting down an talking. And as far as him not 'remembering' what you said 8 years ago, you must be mad if you believe that!!! Seems to me you need to fix YOU first and then sit down and have a frank discussion with your husband.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Didn't have the courtesy to leave? I said that I would, and he could have the house, the joint accounts, everything. He wanted me to stay. Every time we have discussed the situation, he has said the same thing.

No, we don't sleep together. I sleep on the couch and he has the bed. 

I realize marriage is a joint venture, and it's not up to him to suddenly sweep me off my feet. A few months ago I decided I was going to hug him every day whether he responded or not. I kept it up for awhile, but after little to no response I stopped.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You're lucky in that your husband is the nice guy and has not retaliated... Some of us, the not as nice variety, would have pulled some major psych warfare in his case...


----------



## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

HiMaint57 said:


> A few months ago I decided I was going to hug him every day whether he responded or not. I kept it up for awhile, but after little to no response I stopped.


A few months ago....kept it up for a while?

After telling someone that you never loved them, you have to start everything all over again. You have 8 years of pain to make up for as well as 34 years of what he thought was a marriage that you 8 years ago told him was a bag of lies.

You are going to have to put in a lot of hard work here.

You need to first help your husband heal, then you need to get him to like you again (in a non-platonic way), then you need to nurture that into intimacy and build on it from there.

OR

You can ask him if you can continue to be roommates and ask him for permission to get intimacy elsewhere and give him permission to find it elsewhere himself.

OR

You can continue as you are.


----------



## mupostori (May 20, 2012)

Since you a dealing with a Godly man understand that his responses will be based on scripture and not how he feels . According to scripture leaving him is the worst thing you can do so he won't allow you to leave, maybe if you had a physical affair he would let you leave ( whatever you do don't do this evil)

Do you miss having sex with him ,or you just want all the other types of intimacy except sex . If that is the case you won't get any because man don't get married to hold hands


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

HiMaint57 said:


> A few months ago I decided I was going to hug him every day whether he responded or not. I kept it up for awhile, but after little to no response I stopped.


What did you want? Would a hug back have done it? Is he even willing to do that?


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Yes, he will hug back but like he is hugging his mother.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

I realize that I haven't been clear about what my questions are:

Given how things have been for the last 8 years, how can he act like nothing is wrong in our relationship?

In order to work on the marriage, it seems to me that we should spend time together, yet we rarely do, and when we are together we don't talk much (I find silence very uncomfortable). He is rarely home before 9 pm and he gets off work at 3:30 (I often work late because I want to avoid uncomfortable situations). I know he puts a lot of time into the church sound system and doing events there that involve sound; in fact it seems like he is married to this activity and enjoys it a lot more than being married to me. He spends nearly all of his waking hours on it in addition to his paying job. I guess I'm asking why does he say he wants me to stay if we don't do anything together?

It seems like he is totally ok with being roommates these past 8 years. How can that be? Don't men want sex? Don't they like kissing, hugging, and all that? I know I destroyed him by what I said, but again there is the question of why does he want me here if he doesn't want any kind of physical interaction with me?

How do I feel? I enjoy it when he's gone because then there's not the expectation to talk to each other. I hate small talk. And also if he is gone, then he's not thinking about how fat I am.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

HiMaint57 said:


> I realize that I haven't been clear about what my questions are:
> 
> Given how things have been for the last 8 years, how can he act like nothing is wrong in our relationship?
> 
> ...


Well, you're assuming an awful lot there, so I'll ask again...



GusPolinski said:


> Just curious... would you be at all upset if you were to discover that he'd been involved w/ another woman -- or _other women_ -- over the course of the past 8 years?


Off at 330 pm and rarely home before 9 pm? I'd say that it's at least pretty likely that he's involved -- or has been involved -- w/ someone else.


----------



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

1. "It seems like he is totally ok with being roommates these past 8 years. How can that be? Don't men want sex? Don't they like kissing, hugging, and all that? I know I destroyed him by what I said, but again there is the question of why does he want me here if he doesn't want any kind of physical interaction with me?

Men do have normal urges but do they want to grovel before someone who says they don't like him. He is a) having an affair which he can justify because of your treatment of him, b) resigned himself to a sexless life and gets some satisfaction that you are also saddled with it. 

2. One gets the feeling that now that you have gained weight and feel less attractive, you are more attracted to him. 

3. Yes you do have a dysfunctional marriage. You can try to correct it, by apologizing, buying him flowers, getting in a sexy outfit, making sure you confirm this was your fault not his, and try to put things back. 

4. Its not a question of age; plenty of 55 year olds in a mutually satisfying marriages still have good sex; probably relatively few in marriages where they say they don't love the other one. 

5. Regardless of what he says or chooses to admit, he vividly remembers that horrible thing you said. 






How do I feel? I enjoy it when he's gone because then there's not the expectation to talk to each other. I hate small talk. And also if he is gone, then he's not thinking about how fat I am.


----------



## mupostori (May 20, 2012)

you should go for couples counselling , since you both conflict avoiders, I think there is need of a third party to confront the both of you . 

Ask him if he will be ok if you lived apart but remained married , my guess is he says don't leave because He is on a "God hates divorce" vibe


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

john117 said:


> You're lucky in that your husband is the nice guy and has not retaliated... Some of us, the not as nice variety, would have pulled some major psych warfare in his case...


IMHO, the husband is using some of the best psychological warfare on his wife. The OP likely feels that he feels nothing for her and that he is completely and utterly detached from her. She was guilted to stay, and as soon as the H knew she would, he flipped the switch. How long did it take him to lose the love for his wife is unknown, but I strongly feel that he actively worked on detaching. 

OK... How much time can someone spend tinkering with a church sounds system? Music director is one thing, but sound tech? LOL, he's spending time somewhere else than church.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

HiMaint57 said:


> Given how things have been for the last 8 years, how can he act like nothing is wrong in our relationship?


Most likely he's been more than the Maytag repair man to some of the ladies. Can't say I blame him. I'd even recommend that he get a hold on another limb (like a monkey) before turning loose of you. The reason he acts like nothing is wrong is because he just doesn't give a damn.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> IMHO, the husband is using some of the best psychological warfare on his wife. The OP likely feels that he feels nothing for her and that he is completely and utterly detached from her. She was guilted to stay, and as soon as the H knew she would, he flipped the switch. How long did it take him to lose the love for his wife is unknown, but I strongly feel that he actively worked on detaching.
> 
> 
> 
> OK... How much time can someone spend tinkering with a church sounds system? Music director is one thing, but sound tech? LOL, he's spending time somewhere else than church.



Time away from home is hardly marital warfare material.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

john117 said:


> Time away from home is hardly marital warfare material.


IDK, the OP's husband not only got her to stay but he also effectively detached from her so thoroughly that this marriage is dead in all things but name only. He got her to fall on her own sword, so I'd say he won this war. But...I think the cost of winning was way too high of a price to pay.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If your husband hugged you back at least it wasn't rejection. Keep up the hugging. Laugh and smile. Talk to him. Doesn't matter what you talk about. Just give of yourself. You need to be vulnerable for him to feel sexually attracted to you.

It may or may not work but he may spring into action.

Is he overweight? Does he have self image problems?

If he lifts weights and builds upper body strength, it may trigger physiological changes. Make him more attractive to you.

Also, the being in love part. That may come since you have a deep connection. There is no guarantee that will or can, but it is certainly possible.


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

No one is broken that doesn't allow themselves to be broken. What you did was change his perception of your marriage - In saying what you did, he heard, "this marriage is a hollow egg, containing no substance." He believed that it was so, and so he set about making it so.

All in all, it was extremely selfish for him to do. In actively shutting you out of his heart, he made it all about himself. He likely feels like he was/is simply protecting his heart from further injury, but either doesn't realize or doesn't care that he is hurting and punishing you.

That is not to say that you are without culpability. 

I speak from experience on this subject; when we were younger (and before we were married), my wife told me something along those lines as well - and I shut her out for two years. [Being a Christian, if we were married, I might not have wanted to divorce either.] It is one of the most regrettable, shameful things I have ever done in my life. I told myself I was protecting my heart, I was not going to be hurt again. She pursued me for those two years, relentlessly. I put her through hell, not by being angry and vitriolic towards her, but simply by being apathetic. In reality I was making it about me, and punishing her for something she said two years ago, and possibly didn't even mean.

If he did love you at any point, it is still there. I don't have that answer; but if that spark is still there, after 8 years it's probably behind a thick shell of concrete forged by the broken bones and dried blood of your marriage. You can leave it alone, or try to chip away at it, piece by piece. It may take another 8 years, and it won't be easy, but if you really want it you must be determined and resolute.

The last part, the hardest part for most to accept, is that you may never break all the way through. You may get within an inch, and it might as well be a mile. The shell needs to also be cracked from the inside - that's the work he has to do himself. To realize his role in all of this, and to want a different outcome. If he truly loves you, he can get there eventually. He also may not, so it's up to you to decide.

The first thing you need to do above all else is stop punishing yourself for your mistakes. Everyone makes them. You're being punished enough by your situation, why add fuel to the fire? Everyone deserves to be happy in life. Right now, your marriage is what it is - you have three choices. Accept it. Change it. Put it to rest. Which would make you happiest?

The choice is yours.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

And don't give up on your thread. You are benefiting from it.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Update: About two weeks ago I got up the courage to bring up the subject of the marriage with him. He said that one big reason he avoids touching me is because in the past I would make comments about being fat, ugly, etc. I know I've had a bad body image nearly all my life; my daughter says that my fat/ugly comments made her bulimic (she is fine now). He said that it was just better if he left me alone rather than setting off my body-image issues. Ironically, I wasn't fat 8 years ago or even 3 years ago, but I am now, so if he were to touch me now I would feel terribly uncomfortable.
We talked about why it seems that when we do talk, it's always about trivial matters. His response was that in the past 8 years, conversations with me almost always ended up with me feeling guilty or getting upset about something that happened in the past. For example, if he was telling me about someone he knew who was going to the Mayo Clinic, I would eventually say something about how badly (in my opinion) they treated my mom's cancer and guilty that I didn't speak up at the time, then maybe she wouldn't have died. Or in talking about the kids and reminiscing about things they did in their younger days, I'd go off on how I messed up as a mom. And then I'd be upset and he would feel bad about upsetting me, so it was just easier to avoid conversation or stay away.

I admit that what he told me is pretty accurate on both counts. I didn't realize that I affected him so profoundly that he would rather avoid all intimacy and meaningful conversation. In fact, I'm not so sure I totally believe it. I asked him if there was anything going on between him and a family friend that he once said he had romantic feelings for. He said, "Do you mean is she still a virgin?" I was surprised by that response, but then we moved on to another topic.
I opened the discussion by saying that we were like strangers and I didn't want to live like that. He asked me if I was just giving him information about my plans to leave or if I wanted to discuss options.I wanted to say I was just informing him, because I was feeling that the relationship couldn't be made better and that it was time to move on rather than talk about options that I wasn't sure I wanted anyway. But I could not get the words out no matter how hard I tried.I was too afraid of what it would do to him if I said I was leaving. During this 2-hour discussion we didn't touch at all; he spent a lot of the time staring at the floor.Then I said I needed a break because my mind was so jumbled by that point, so I did, but the discussion was never resumed.

So here we are the same as before, avoiding the elephant in the room.I was glad that we had the discussion, but unhappy that nothing was resolved. I don't understand why I'm so scared of telling him that I think my leaving is the best option. What do I think he is going to do? And for his part, was it worth it to him to not have sex or any other intimacy for 8 years just so I wouldn't say how fat and ugly I was? By the way, neither of us mentioned me saying that I didn't love him. I felt it was better to talk about how things are rather than how they got that way, and he let me lead the discussion.

Any thoughts?


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Forgot to add that during these 8 years we took 6 Caribbean cruises as my daughter was the female production singer on the ship. I love beaches, sand, Sun, reading in a hammock, etc. He doesn't like any of the above. So other than watching or daughter's performances, I was alone on the ship deck with a book and he was in the cabin watching tv. And who doesn't have sex on a cruise? It's a romantic vacation! I said that to him but got no response.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

HiMaint57 said:


> And who doesn't have sex on a cruise? It's a romantic vacation! I said that to him but got no response.



You'll be surprised 

Hardcore sexual withholding people simply get their kicks by the sheet act of withholding. It's a nihilistic approach, but seems to provide them with joy. 

When the joy or pleasure of NOT having sex is more than the joy of having sex the relationship is toast. You can talk till morning but talk is cheap.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You broached the subject. Now ask him what his thoughts have been since then. Ask him he he has a desire for sex and intimacy. Tell him you want to try.

The ultimatum about ending your marriage is implicit. No need to state it.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lady, I wouldn't have reacted how your H did 8 years ago but that aside, What about you is worth loving? I perceive little to no remorse from you. What do you think leaving will accomplish?

You will still be you.

Work on improving yourself. Become attractive inside as well as out. Get better at conflict. You both need to really get a counselor to help you communicate.

You two can fix this with a lot of work.

I would not want sex with a negative woman that told me she never loved me. If you leave, do you think you're going to start getting sex or intimacy from a different source?

You sound hateful in your casual attitude of passive aggressively pushing your H for divorce. He has also behaved cowardly.

Get your butts into counseling and work it or call it quits. If you're going to stay, learn to love your H.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## koukisdad (Feb 6, 2015)

One thing most ladies forget is that so many man in this world would not care about the body image ...

it is when they are starving for love , and being loved ...

Have you ever woke up one morning and did something he never ever expected ?

There is nothing in the world more touching when a man feels as a king in front of his wife ...


----------



## Seppuku (Sep 22, 2010)

Based on the way you write, it seems that your thoughts are jumbled. If he's not open to marriage counseling, you might benefit from individual counseling anyway.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

HiMaint57 said:


> I would ask the forum if by any chance 55 is the end of the line for sex and intimacy four other couples, too (I suspected it wasn't).
> 
> I suspect I should have left long ago.



I am 52 with wife of 23 years and having the best sex of my life.
If it were any better I would have to do it in the presence of emergency room doctors.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

UMP said:


> I am 52 with wife of 23 years and having the best sex of my life.
> If it were any better I would have to do it in the presence of emergency room doctors.


Aaaaammeeeennn!!&#55357;&#56839;&#55357;&#56839;&#55357;&#56839;&#55357;&#56839;&#55357;&#56839;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

55 years old here. While it may take more time between sessions, sex for me now is better than it has ever been. Maybe that is because of who I am with (or who I am not with) but you make it sound like 55 is time to turn to dust. You (provided you can solve your issues) can have A LOT of good sex ahead of you.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Unless you're prepared to bail out it matters less how old you think is too old for sex vs how old your partner thinks is too old...


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

HiMaint57 said:


> Update: About two weeks ago I got up the courage to bring up the subject of the marriage with him. He said that one big reason he avoids touching me is because in the past I would make comments about being fat, ugly, etc. I know I've had a bad body image nearly all my life; my daughter says that my fat/ugly comments made her bulimic (she is fine now). He said that it was just better if he left me alone rather than setting off my body-image issues. Ironically, I wasn't fat 8 years ago or even 3 years ago, but I am now, so if he were to touch me now I would feel terribly uncomfortable.
> We talked about why it seems that when we do talk, it's always about trivial matters. His response was that in the past 8 years, conversations with me almost always ended up with me feeling guilty or getting upset about something that happened in the past. For example, if he was telling me about someone he knew who was going to the Mayo Clinic, I would eventually say something about how badly (in my opinion) they treated my mom's cancer and guilty that I didn't speak up at the time, then maybe she wouldn't have died. Or in talking about the kids and reminiscing about things they did in their younger days, I'd go off on how I messed up as a mom. And then I'd be upset and he would feel bad about upsetting me, so it was just easier to avoid conversation or stay away.
> 
> I admit that what he told me is pretty accurate on both counts. I didn't realize that I affected him so profoundly that he would rather avoid all intimacy and meaningful conversation. In fact, I'm not so sure I totally believe it. I asked him if there was anything going on between him and a family friend that he once said he had romantic feelings for. He said, "Do you mean is she still a virgin?" I was surprised by that response, but then we moved on to another topic.
> ...


Here's what I'm picking up on...

Each time that you post, your handle seems more and more appropriate.

And I'm guessing that your husband feels pretty beaten down by _everything_ that lies behind the "WHY?!?" of all that.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Wow.
What about me is worth loving? In my opinion, not much. Not much at all.
Yes, my husband is beaten down from 34 years of being married to me. I ruined his life. The best thing I can do for him now is to leave. Hopefully he meets someone that can be the kind of wife he deserves.
I'm not looking for intimacy anywhere else, never have, not now, not ever. I doubt if I'm even capable of it. In fact the thing I want most is to be alone. 
Thank you all for your comments.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Not so quickly 

Everyone has lots of good qualities - many obvious, many waiting to be discovered. It takes a lot of self study and hard work to start bringing those qualities out of storage. 

Do what you must but don't rationalize yourself down.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Update in case anyone was still interested. I have my own apartment and am moving out in two weeks. I guess my selfish nature won out and I didn't want to settle for what my husband was able to give me. For history, read my other posts. 
He says there has never been anyone else and I believe him. Same for me. I think we both made too many assumptions about our relationship (yes I've heard what happens when you "assume"). When I pulled back from him, he assumed that he would make me happy by giving me space. When I noticed him pulling back, talking less, avoiding issues, etc. I thought he didn't care, so I felt bad and pulled back in response. You do this for 8 years and there won't be a relationship left. Right now we both are very sorry it turned out this way. My daughter says that all these years he was trying to love me the best he could, and that was by leaving me alone. Seems like a strange concept, but I see some truth in it. 
He also wants to help me move. I'm guessing that's a bit unusual.
Anyway, I signed the lease and there's no going back now.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

HiMaint57 said:


> Update in case anyone was still interested. I have my own apartment and am moving out in two weeks. I guess my selfish nature won out and I didn't want to settle for what my husband was able to give me. For history, read my other posts.
> He says there has never been anyone else and I believe him. Same for me. I think we both made too many assumptions about our relationship (yes I've heard what happens when you "assume"). When I pulled back from him, he assumed that he would make me happy by giving me space. When I noticed him pulling back, talking less, avoiding issues, etc. I thought he didn't care, so I felt bad and pulled back in response. You do this for 8 years and there won't be a relationship left. Right now we both are very sorry it turned out this way. My daughter says that all these years he was trying to love me the best he could, and that was by leaving me alone. Seems like a strange concept, but I see some truth in it.
> He also wants to help me move. I'm guessing that's a bit unusual.
> Anyway, I signed the lease and there's no going back now.


 This magnitude of a breakdown in communication ..spanning 8 yrs...and you're going to allow it to end like this... now that you've touched the surface.. realizing he was just loving you the best he could.. even if his thinking was so flawed.. 

You've both effectively shut each other out for YEARS..it's become a way of breathing ....how sad it this..  It should have never been. 

Do you love him.. do you want this to BE the ending?? What do YOU REALLY WANT here HiMaint57?? Do you want him to come after you? Given the history..it's not going to happen....even if he wanted it ....he lives by your wishes.. to not rock the boat. 

Yet inside he may not want this either.. do you & he even KNOW what you want ?? 

This illustrates why opposites can be helpful in relationships...as 2 passive aggressives can usher in apathy & silent treatments to the point of destroying communication - with assumptions running in places never meant to be...

It's helpful to have a "confronter" in the mix to dig and pull out the truth of the other when hurtful things are spoken...just a shame...

Getting a lease doesn't mean this is the end.. Can you be honest with US here .. where is your heart .. have you closed it off so tight that you can't feel anymore ??? Sometimes people have to hit a gutter experience to LOOK UP and make the changes necessary ... Do not allow your lives to end in this state if it was never what you wanted.. .

Do you ever look back to what brought you together.. and miss those days? ... I have not read all this thread , so excuse me if this is written.. maybe not living together will allow you & he to slowly open up.. crazier things have happened ! Just saying !


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

SimplyAmorous --- I too am hoping that time away from being under the same roof will give both of us clarity in what we want. Right now I don't know for sure, and I suspect he doesn't either. For now, hewill immerse himself even more deeply in the church sound system (he basically designed and built it); I'll get used to a new place and unpack. He once said that if I ever left to not bother coming back, but that was quite a few years ago. He may feel differently now. Both of us need to decide if we want to work on the marriage or give it up as something that maybe shouldn't have happened in the first place.
It's interesting about passive-aggressiveness; we come from entirely different backgrounds yet turned out the same in that way. His parents yelled and screamed at each other constantly over minor issues; my husband was physically abused. My parents could go days without speaking to each other; my mom was that way with me, too. I guess both extremes are ways of avoiding the real issues.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You cannot approach each other. You cannot touch. You cannot feel. You cannot embrace. You cannot whisper.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

HiMaint57 said:


> He also wants to help me move.


I can't blame him. I'd helped you move about thirty something years ago.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Phoenix --- thanks a lot.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Come on HyMaint. By you're own admission, you've treated this old boy like shid for years. In your own words, "Yes, my husband is beaten down from 34 years of being married to me. I ruined his life." 
How many other men would put up with that kind of crap? He should have cut you loose years ago and you know it.


----------



## jolyajones (Feb 25, 2015)

anon pink you gives a good idea i agree to you.


----------



## jolyajones (Feb 25, 2015)

Anon pink that's right i agree with you.


----------



## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

HiMaint57 said:


> Yes, you read that right. 8 years. I've posted before about my relationship with my husband and how I told him I'd never been in love with him. That was about 8 years ago. I can understand why he totally withdrew, physically and emotionally, after hearing this. I said I would leave, but he wanted me to stay, so I have.
> 
> Now, 8 years after I first told him about my feelings, we are together, but our relationship is, and has been for 8 years, totally platonic. No hand holding, kissing, or anything. He says that there are all kinds of marriages (in response to a recent comment I made that ours isn't normal). We hardly ever talk about the situation, but I recently asked him if he remembered what I said about never being in love with him, and he said no, he didn't remember. So I guess he isn't mad about it anymore?? If not, then can't we try to fix the relationship? He doesn't seem to want to and prefers to act like nothing is wrong.
> 
> ...



I am confused when you say you took to food as a love substitute.... when you told him that you never loved him in the first place?

I would be pretty upset if my wife told me after how every many years of making me think that she actually loved me that she had indeed never loved me. It is probably safe to say that your husband assumed you loved him to you know being that you married him. Now you are upset that he has been withdrawn and might be having an affair. 

You have no one to blame but yourself. I feel bad for your husband for actually sticking around. I am sure he had his reasons but I can only hope that if he is having an affair the person is appreciating and treating him well which is what his wife should have been doing for 8 years.


----------



## jacko jack (Feb 19, 2015)

Dear hiMaint57

You have got what you want. I this country feminists talk about marriage as "legalized prostitution", what would be your comment or anybody elses comment be on this.

1 Corinthians 7 3-4.

Regards

Jack


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

jacko jack said:


> Dear hiMaint57
> 
> You have got what you want. I this country feminists talk about marriage as "legalized prostitution", what would be your comment or anybody elses comment be on this.
> 
> 1 Corinthians 7 3-4


*3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.*

I'm not sure what feminism has to do with the above bible verse, except for a slight tweaking of the meaning which clarifies that a husband may not rape his wife. Those darn feminists, always taking the fun out of relationships and interactions! 

However, you raise a point which I think both OP and her husband should consider. If we think of the marriage itself as a living breathing entity, both spouses claim ownership. Both spouses are entitled and required to maintain the relationship. To continuously breath life into it and continuously feed it.

Neither OP nor her H have done that. They've both abdicated ownership; ceding their right and responsibility to the other, silently.

They both are doomed to continue this silent and passive form of relationship grooming because neither were able to own their marriage.

Sad situation really. This relationship could be saved but it's easier to walk away.


----------



## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

I went the first 18 years of my life with no sex. It was even worse then because male hormones are going crazy in the teen years. I survived. I just "handled" the situation myself.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

jacko jack said:


> Dear hiMaint57
> 
> You have got what you want. I this country feminists talk about marriage as "legalized prostitution", what would be your comment or anybody elses comment be on this.
> 
> ...


I keep quoting Hebrews 13:4 to my wife as a justifiable reason for her to receive anal sex, but she ain't buyin it 

[4] Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled............


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I went the first 18 years of my life with no sex. It was even worse then because male hormones are going crazy in the teen years. I survived. I just "handled" the situation myself.


What an unparalleled accomplishment....


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> What a singular accomplishment....


:lol:


Badda Bing!

I like your first post better than your edited version.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

HiMaint57 said:


> SimplyAmorous --- *I too am hoping that time away from being under the same roof will give both of us clarity in what we want*. Right now I don't know for sure, and I suspect he doesn't either. *For now, hewill immerse himself even more deeply in the church sound system (he basically designed and built it); I'll get used to a new place and unpack.*



So, the situation you're in today stems from both of you "giving each other space" for so long that intimacy withered--and you're hoping that you can fix this by giving each other more space?

Oh my.


----------



## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

ocotillo said:


> What an unparalleled accomplishment....


My point is that unless you're an unintelligent animal, living in the wild, only capable of instinctive thinking that you can survive without sexual contact with another person. We are intelligent creatures. The only intelligent creatures in the history of this planet. We are not supposed to be ruled by instinct but instead by rational intuitive thought. Maybe this is why statistics show that people of lower intelligence are more prone to cheat on their spouses. Nobody has to have sex. It's nice, sure, but not a requirement.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> My point is that unless you're an unintelligent animal, living in the wild, only capable of instinctive thinking that you can survive without sexual contact with another person. We are intelligent creatures. The only intelligent creatures in the history of this planet. We are not supposed to be ruled by instinct but instead by rational intuitive thought. Maybe this is why statistics show that people of lower intelligence are more prone to cheat on their spouses. Nobody has to have sex. It's nice, sure, but not a requirement.


So you're telling us that you are capable of never having anymore sex for the rest of your life? Is that a goal of yours? I guess there is nothing wrong with that, maybe even admirable. However, 99.999999% of the rest of us NEED sex. A sex fire burns in my soul. I like to put it out every once in a while, or at least tamp it.


----------



## LuvIsTuff (Feb 20, 2015)

The more I read, the more I want to smack you. You told this man that YOU NEVER LOVED HIM, and now, after 8 years, you act like he should want to be intimate with you?! Pack your s*&t and get out. You don't deserve him and he certainly deserves better.


----------



## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

UMP said:


> So you're telling us that you are capable of never having anymore sex for the rest of your life? Is that a goal of yours? I guess there is nothing wrong with that, maybe even admirable. However, 99.999999% of the rest of us NEED sex. A sex fire burns in my soul. I like to put it out every once in a while, or at least tamp it.


You may want it but you don't need it.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> You may want it but you don't need it.


OH YES! I need it. Safety lies with my wife. That is, if I don't want to impregnate 15 different women and contract Aids along the way.
You overestimate the morality and strength of mankind. I think history is on my side.
Believe what you will.

Since we're quoting the Bible today, I'll leave you with these:
1 Corinthians 7:
[1] Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
[3] Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

[9] But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

I cannot "contain" myself, therefore I got married and have sex.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

CincyBluesFan said:


> You may want it but you don't need it.


If sexual relationships are such a base, animalistic endeavor that we should strive to be evolving beyond, why should we care about a cheating spouse? Let them have their unintelligent hormonal fun while we meditate on the cosmos!


----------



## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> If sexual relationships are such a base, animalistic endeavor that we should strive to be evolving beyond, why should we care about a cheating spouse? Let them have their unintelligent hormonal fun while we meditate on the cosmos!


Good point. In these situations it's usually the betrayal that is far paramount to the actual physical act. In many cases an EA can be even worse than a PA because an EA deals with the intellect and not just animal lust.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> If sexual relationships are such a base, animalistic endeavor that we should strive to be evolving beyond, why should we care about a cheating spouse? Let them have their unintelligent hormonal fun while we meditate on the cosmos!


I can tell you right now, my wife won't buy that excuse


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Apparently UMP, they don't want you, but the don't want anybody else having you either.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I went the first 18 years of my life with no sex. It was even worse then because male hormones are going crazy in the teen years. I survived. I just "handled" the situation myself.


But you've got to admit, the first few years didn't matter.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Apparently UMP, they don't want you, but the don't want anybody else having you either.


Exactly! I figure that's a logical argument from an HD to LD spouse. Eleanore Roosevelt bought it, but I'm not the President of the United States, and I hear she was still pissed off!


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

CincyBluesFan said:


> My point is that unless you're an unintelligent animal, living in the wild, only capable of instinctive thinking that you can survive without sexual contact with another person..


I agree that lack of sex will not kill you, but I'm not sure what the relevance of that observation is to marriage. (?)

To take your observation about the greater intelligence of humans relative to other animals a bit further, a direct byproduct of our human intelligence is civilization and the related social systems and conventions that derive from it.

One of those social conventions is marriage. In the Judeo-Christian marriage tradition, couples take a solemn vow of fidelity. You do not get this level of commitment out of another human being without a good faith expectation that you are going to behave in an ethical manner. If our spouse promised to only ever eat food that we provided, for example, we would have a concomitant obligation to feed them. 

When someone cannot or will not live up to both the explicit and the implicit promises of marriage, their partner does have a legitimate grievance that a single person does not have. 




CincyBluesFan said:


> You may want it but you don't need it.


"Need" is not an exact semantic equivalent to "Necessity." 

Both Solzhenitsyn and Dolgun described an interrogation technique used under Stalin. The person would be put in a small, dimly lit, grey cell with no window and a solid door. --Nothing to read, nothing to see, nobody to talk to, not even the guard. Food would be slipped under a slot in the door. This would go on for six months or more.

Next, the person would be moved to larger, brightly lit cell with a window; bars instead of a solid door and a cell mate. The Russian term for what would happen next roughly translates to, "Verbal Diarrhea." The need to communicate with another human being would be built up to such a point that their judgment would slip. The cell mate, of course, was a skilled interrogator posing as a prisoner.

The point here is that humans are social animals with a complex set of needs that go far beyond the objective and material. This interrogation technique wouldn't have worked otherwise. Maslow's hierarchy of human needs recognizes sex right alongside friendship, conversation and other psychological needs.


----------



## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Many couples getting married, have customized vows before being proclaimed husband and wife, you would think that were a few smart couples who would add to "to forsake all others", "to provide you with all your needs, emotional, sexual, household, co-parenting and financial" but since that is not very romantic it is left out. Too bad, they miss a golden opportunity to hold themselves accountable later on.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

intheory said:


> HiMaint57
> 
> You can't seriously think that because you signed a rental agreement; that that means you can't fix your marriage.
> 
> ...


I agree with every point made in this post, and would only go one question farther.

Having at one point told him that you never loved him--do you now love him? If so, have you told him that? If not--then why are you having hesitancy in getting the divorce?


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

CincyBluesFan said:


> My point is that unless you're an unintelligent animal, living in the wild, only capable of instinctive thinking that you can survive without sexual contact with another person. We are intelligent creatures. The only intelligent creatures in the history of this planet. We are not supposed to be ruled by instinct but instead by rational intuitive thought. Maybe this is why statistics show that people of lower intelligence are more prone to cheat on their spouses. Nobody has to have sex. It's nice, sure, but not a requirement.


I disagree based on anecdotal evidence of the life long singles I have known. Not healthy or not sane. I'm not sure that sex is the requirement but something is missing and the results look a lot like vitamin deficiency. 

Almost starved is not healthy, just alive.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Well, I did ask for your input, and I guess I got it.
I didn't mean that signing the lease meant we couldn't work on the marriage. I meant that after signing, I couldn't change my mind about moving out.
I agree with those who said we need counseling. Left to our own devices, we often end up talking in circles.
I don't think he has had any PA's, but probably several EA's. He has always related much more easily to women than to men, and as a result has had a lot of female friends and very few, if any, male friends. This has been the case throughout our relationship, even before marriage. We have a family friend that he spends a lot of time with; she has Health issues and is single, so he likes to help her as much as he can. He goes to all of her Medical appts with her and helped her get sober (he doesn't have issues with drinking). Another woman that we both know helps him with his gigs (he is a part-time dj). So there have always been other women in his life; it's never really bothered me because I trusted him not to go too far. He admitted romantic feelings for the family friend but decided not to act on them, he said.
Basically he needs to be needed and loves to help people. That's why he won't take any payment for the sound system work even though it can be a full time job.
So he said that he withdrew from me because he thought I was happier that way, and also because whenever he would touch me I would complain that I was fat (even when I wasn't fat like I am now). And he didn't like how I would always bring up past events that made me angry, like why couldn't I just forget the past and move on? These past issues were usually about things other than the marriage. He says he doesn't remember me saying anything about not loving him as much as he loves me.
I acknowledge that I've treated him badly over the years; in fact, I have told him that more than once (that I've been a hard person to live with), but he disagrees, which surprises me. But if in his mind I haven't treated him "like ****", am I supposed to try and convince him? 
He doesn't want me to leave, and I'd like to stay and work on the marriage now that I understand that by leaving me alone he was trying to make me happy and was trying to love me any way he could. I know it sounds strange, but that's what he says. 
Wish I hadn't signed the lease.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

I don't know too be honest. When he had accepted that something is going to happen a certain way, good or bad, he doesn't like being jerked around. I'll need to ask him what he'd like to do.
Right now I'm off work for a few days to pack, and I don't feel like doing anything except sitting on the couch. Makes me angry with myself, so I'm getting up now.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

HiMaint57 said:


> Well, I did ask for your input, and I guess I got it.
> I didn't mean that signing the lease meant we couldn't work on the marriage. I meant that after signing, I couldn't change my mind about moving out.


No, that just means that you pay the lease. Or break it. Whichever.

But even if you do wind up paying it, you don't HAVE to live there.



HiMaint57 said:


> I agree with those who said we need counseling. Left to our own devices, we often end up talking in circles.
> *I don't think he has had any PA's, but probably several EA's. He has always related much more easily to women than to men, and as a result has had a lot of female friends and very few, if any, male friends. This has been the case throughout our relationship, even before marriage. We have a family friend that he spends a lot of time with; she has Health issues and is single, so he likes to help her as much as he can. He goes to all of her Medical appts with her and helped her get sober (he doesn't have issues with drinking). Another woman that we both know helps him with his gigs (he is a part-time dj). So there have always been other women in his life; it's never really bothered me because I trusted him not to go too far. He admitted romantic feelings for the family friend but decided not to act on them, he said.*


:scratchhead:

Sorry, but all that just *SCREAMS* "Affair!" to me.

But would that even bother you? I mean... you don't love him, right?



HiMaint57 said:


> Basically he needs to be needed and loves to help people. That's why he won't take any payment for the sound system work even though it can be a full time job.
> So he said that he withdrew from me because he thought I was happier that way, and also because whenever he would touch me I would complain that I was fat (even when I wasn't fat like I am now). And he didn't like how I would always bring up past events that made me angry, like why couldn't I just forget the past and move on? These past issues were usually about things other than the marriage. He says he doesn't remember me saying anything about not loving him as much as he loves me.
> I acknowledge that I've treated him badly over the years; in fact, I have told him that more than once (that I've been a hard person to live with), but he disagrees, which surprises me. But if in his mind I haven't treated him "like ****", am I supposed to try and convince him?
> He doesn't want me to leave, and I'd like to stay and work on the marriage now that I understand that by leaving me alone he was trying to make me happy and was trying to love me any way he could. I know it sounds strange, but that's what he says.
> Wish I hadn't signed the lease.


:slap:


----------



## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Doesn't sound good to me. Sounds like white knight syndrome at best,which includes using your good nature to be "helpful" to women to get in their pants (cause your wife/GF) is oblivious, at the worst.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

I asked him what his involvement with this friend was, and he said hugs and kisses on the cheek. And the romantic feelings at one time that he didn't act on, he says. I know, nobody ever tells the truth about an affair.
Would I be upset? Yes I would. Especially if I found he had lied about it. Also, I remember a time several years ago when, in an effort to initiate some kind of intimacy, I asked if I could come and sit by him in bed to watch the movie he had on. He replied that he didn't think it was a good idea. I would be upset if he said that because he was sleeping with someone else.
A poster on this thread said he hoped he was having an affair with someone who would "treat him better than I had." Maybe this post was prophetic.
There are many times, though, where I don't know where he is. Like on Saturdays he often leaves in the morning and doesn't come back until evening. I just assume he is busy with the sound system (he repairs it, orders things for it, recruits, schedules, and trains other volunteers, builds additional sound systems for use elsewhere, and operates the system on Sundays and all Special events, so it is a huge job). I could text him and ask where he is, but that wouldn't prove anything.
Gus Polinski, what was the slap on the forehead for? What do you think is stupid about what I said?
One problem I have is with making decisions. Like with the lease, I signed it thinking it was the best option send a day later thought it was totally wrong. I wish I didn't always second-guess myself.
I feel like this relationship is the most messed-up one on this thread!


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

I think he is a sincere Christian. I'm a cradle Catholic and he converted about 15 years ago. It was all his idea. He wasn't involved with the sound system at the time. 
I think the sound system involvement is in many ways a replacement for being involved with me. 
I know many things seem fishy, but I don't think there are any PA's going on. He is too much a man of his word to break marriage vows. As for EA's, yes, but I don't think he would consider these cheating.
I let him know last night that I didn't want to move, and he said that I had convinced him that moving is what I needed to do. He knows that I have trouble with making decisions and that I don't always know what I want. Although he doesn't show emotion at all, I know that he is tired of being jerked around. So here is helping me move and that is that.
I admit that right now I'm a mess and don't know what I want or what the best course of action is. All I know is I don't want Saturday to come (moving day). And he is so done telling me what he wants me to do.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

I know for sure that Monday I'm going to call and make an appointment with a counselor, because I'm the most messed-up, craziest person on this forum. Yesterday I was feeling so much fear about moving the next day (I have anxiety/depression, and it often rears its head in times of extreme stress -- I'm on medication for it), that I told him I couldn't go through with it. After several hours of discussion, he allowed me to stay. I was very relieved. 
Except today I had to go and pay the remainder of the March rent on the apt, and I felt so bad that I was going to lose it that I now have committed to pay the next two months rent so they don't put it on the market. 
So right now I'm at home but still have the apartment.
What is wrong with me? Why can't I stick to a decision?


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

This is posted from another thread:

Re: miserable marriage
Quote:
Originally Posted by allbymyself View Post
and I need to add that my husband is boring, has no friends or hobbies, never wants to do anything fun as a family on the weekend, doesn't ever plan anything fun to do for vacation at Spring Break, isn't good at conversation, and this is just for starters. The one thing he is good at is being a committed husband (no cheating) but honestly, I wouldn't even care if he cheated at this point. Then I could at least blame a divorce on his cheating. I don't want to be the one to ask for a divorce because I just know he will tell the kids that I was the one who wanted it first. That's what his father did and it ruined the way he looked at his mother ever since. I can't stand being married to him anymore but I feel so trapped because of my children. I don't want to ruin their lives just because I am sad and lonely. Sometimes I just wish I would die. At least then I would be out of this situation that I feel is almost unbearable.
so from your posts it appears you , never tried anything to let him know what you want him to do to make your relationship fulfilling while letting it continue to a point where you say even if he makes a effort now you dont want it anymore .

and now you want him to cheat on you just because you want to blame the divorce on him although its actually you who want it ?
I would suggest you to be bold enough to ask for divorce & be honest enough to accept that you never tried to save your marriage because you didn't want to .

u said your husband has no idea you feel this way so do him a favour , let him know that you have no desire for him & can't even stand him . He himself might be able to let you go .
Best of luck 


Ok, read the above and focus on the terrible things this poster says about her husband. I didn't say anything like this in my posts; I admitted I told my husband that I wasn't in love with him, but that is my fault, not his, and I don't recall saying anything bad about him.

I feel as though I've been attacked and put down by this forum, and I want to know why. To the point of one poster wishing my H would have an affair to make up for how I treated him. That was cruel no matter what. Some of the posters tried to be helpful, and I don't mind hearing constructive criticism, but why was I body-slammed and the other poster wasn't?


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

Himaint, I'm wondering if you could tell me something? Why are you still there? In all your posts you have not said that you love your husband (that I could see) as your reason for wanting to stay. You've talked about how he's not interested in being intimate, you've complained that he doesn't come home. Yet do you really expect someone to want to be intimate with you when you tell them you NEVER loved them? So why did you marry him? Is it as a safety net? Because your anxiety is so high that you couldn't leave back then, or even now for that matter? As for complaining about his absence, you yourself admit you do the same. Why is it a problem when he does it and not you?

I believe many people are giving you a hard time because your complaining about the state of your marriage when you alone put it on this path. Do you really expect your H to be so submissive that you can tell him you've never loved him, but then want to rekindle your relationship? That's actually a form of mental abuse, I know because I lived it. Your H is a real man, not someone you can reject to his core and then expect him to jump you at your beck and call. 

The way you talk, about never loving him, you actually sounds like you could have had an affair. You repeat that your H should have wanted sex, one should say the same for you. Where were you getting your needs getting met?

We all respond to a thread in our own way, you cannot compare your thread to another's. I'm sorry you don't like the advice you've been given. My best advice, leave tomorrow, as soon as possible. Get this over with now. Your husband deserves to spend the rest of his life with someone who LOVES him, not someone who is just there out of convenience.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

HiMaint57 said:


> I feel as though I've been attacked and put down by this forum, and I want to know why.


HiMaint57,

This is how your story began:



HiMaint57 said:


> Met H in high school. Liked him a lot and had fun together but never been truly in love with him. He was totally in love with me. I married him for security and because not knowing what my future would be scared me. I had untreated anxiety and depression issues then (treated now).



This is how her story began:



allbymyself said:


> First off, my husband never kisses me. He hid the fact that he does not like kissing, when we were dating. He pretended to like it and he did it before we were married. Kissing is one of the things I like most and so needless to say, the lack of it has left me feeling very unfulfilled. Even if he were to change his mind (which, obviously he won't) I have grown apart from him romantically because of this. I feel like he deceived me and I resent him for that. He never even hugs me or is affectionate in the least bit. I have no desire to be physical with him at all because of his lack of affection.



I'm not saying that it is right or fair or even accurate, but I suspect that this it is how people are reading it: 

You portrayed yourself as the, "Villain." (i.e. Your husband was deceived.)

She portrayed herself as the, "Victim." (i.e. She was deceived.)​
I'm sure there's much, much more to your story and it's probably not as black and white as it might appear.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

I married him when we were both 23. We had been dating for 5 years, so marriage seemed like the next step. I was extremely anxious about what I would do with the rest of my life, and yes, he was my security. At that time I thought I loved him, given the little I knew about love. I have anxiety/depression but at this time it hasn't been diagnosed or treated.

No, I haven't had an affair. Never thought about it.

When I told him I wasn't in love with him, I told him I would leave but he wanted me to stay. That's when the sexless marriage began. I stayed because he asked me to, and that's why I'm still here. As you all know, I was packed and ready to move but at the 11th hour I couldn't do it because of the anxiety/depression that I felt. I suppose I should have sucked it up and moved anyway. 

I can see your point about complaining when I created the problem. I never thought we would drift so far apart over the years, especially as he asked me to stay in the marriage. My original reason for posting this time was to find out if other marriages were sexless and lacking emotion when both parties were on the downside of 50.I guess it all depends.

I portrayed myself as the villain because I feel responsible for what has happened to the marriage.And I wanted to be honest.No use blaming him or a anyone else.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

To me the bigges problem here is that you still don't love him. And yet you stay. It's your job to fall in love. It's a choice. It's not on him.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Since you haven't had sex for such a very long time, what will happen if you try? Do you have sexual fantasies? Do you masturbate. Can't you even get into bed with your husband and whisper to each other about how you feel?


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Posting an update.
I moved into the apartment about 6 weeks ago. I don't know why exactly, but it was something I felt I had to follow through with after signing the lease and everything. I'm now alone pretty much all the time except for work. I don't have the tension that was created by us living together and not talking much, and I'm grateful for that, but at the same time I get lonely. So many conflicting feelings. I've been a "grass is greener " person before and lost a job that I loved and should have stayed at. Wonder if I just did the same thing with moving out. Or maybe it's too early to tell.
If anyone is wondering how husband is doing, he could have created the 180---he's that good at it. No calls, no texts except about bills, gone cold and dark. I'm sure a few of you are cheering:lol::yay::yay::yay: I think he's happy I'm gone..
So that's where things stand now. Thanks for listening.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Im glad your husband is doing well and not devastated. I for one dont cheer at the break up of any marriage, so I'm not cheering.

in fact I hope maybe there is still a way for both of you to find hapiness together.
maybe the separation will give you both time and space to do that.
if not I wish you BOTH well.

thanks for updating


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I wish the both of you the very best.


----------



## prayingforhelp (Apr 7, 2015)

The last time I did it with my wife was the day my daughter was conceived. My daughter is 6-1/2 now. I;m in my early 40's.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You probably did the right thing.

Your marriage was loveless.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

No probably about it, you did the right thing.

You've got some issues and you're working on them. Your husband however seems hopeless. You're the one that brought the issues to the fore, you're the one asking questions, you're the one taking action. Your husband would try to find something pleasant about and tolerate anything... He is the epitome of "complacency breeds mediocracy." Passive to a fault.

Now you're on your own, find things to keep you busy and active. and keep working on your body image issues.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Wow sorry to hear that. Do you have your own thread on here.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

I Wouldn't say that H is passive. He is assertive about other things. But he has been very avoidant of any issues involving our relationship. He would have lived with the no sex, no affection, distant, roommate situation forever had I not said something about it. But let's face it, things would have been radically different had I not told him 8 years ago that I didn't love him enough. He withdrew into a protective shell and it has only gotten thicker and harder over the years. I guess anyone would have done the same. 

I wish it didn't have to be the way it is now, but I can't keep bugging him with texts. So it is just one day at a time.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

HiMaint57 said:


> Basically he needs to be needed and loves to help people. That's why he won't take any payment for the sound system work even though it can be a full time job.
> 
> So he said that he withdrew from me because he thought I was happier that way, and also because whenever he would touch me I would complain that I was fat (even when I wasn't fat like I am now).
> 
> ...





HiMaint57 said:


> I Wouldn't say that H is passive. He is assertive about other things. But he has been very avoidant of any issues involving our relationship. He would have lived with the no sex, no affection, distant, roommate situation forever had I not said something about it. *But let's face it, things would have been radically different had I not told him 8 years ago that I didn't love him enough. *He withdrew into a protective shell and it has only gotten thicker and harder over the years. I guess anyone would have done the same.
> 
> I wish it didn't have to be the way it is now, but I can't keep bugging him with texts. So it is just one day at a time.


But if he didn't remember you telling him that, then how could this have played a role in the disengagement of your marriage?

And no, withdrawing into a protective shell is not a normal response if your spouse tells you they don't love you. The normal response would be to question, to scrutinize, to converse, to investigate, to yell, to emote, to threaten, to cajole, and even to plan. The man who hears his wife tell him she doesn't love him and responds by doing and saying absolutely NOTHING for 8 years...is passive and avoidant.

You are the only one in your marriage who has actually DONE any work to attempt to solve the issues. You need to stop beating yourself up. Frankly I don't see your H having an affair either, though I'm certainly no expert on affairs. But he is far too passive to actually seek outside companionship unless it's a woman who does all the thinking, chasing, organizing, planning and communicating and all he has to do is show up on time.


----------



## HiMaint57 (May 24, 2012)

Hi, haven't been on here for almost a year. Wanted to share an update: I moved into an apartment in March of 2015. I have enjoyed the silence minus the tension that there was between my husband and me. But apparently there was a misunderstanding about why I left. I thought we would continue to work on the marriage, get counseling, etc. My husband thought otherwise. 
If you ever need someone to teach other members how to go "dark" he has it down to a science. He doesn't call and rarely returns texts; my daughter got married in November, and he pretty much ignored me the entire day. Wouldn't even put his arm around me (at the photographers direction) to take a casual group photo. I guess I expected a bit more as parents of the bride, like we might sit down and reminisce about her growing up years or something. 

Whenever we end up at the same event, he ignores me unless I speak to him first. The crazy thing is that to any other person he interacts with, he acts like nothing is wrong at all. I couldn't do that. 

I texted him recently because my lease was up, and I asked how he felt about getting back together and working on the marriage. I do still love him, and he has many good qualities. He responded that "what you want doesn't exist. " I replied "So you're saying intimacy, cuddling, kissing, holding hands, and being a normal married couple doesn't exist for you? " And he said, "That about sums it up." I told him again that I was sorry for hurting him so badly that he felt that way. Now we're in limbo because he doesn't know if we should stay married or not (we are both Catholic). I do know of couples who stay married but never see each other. 

He says that there's no other woman, and I believe him. 

I guess I deserve whatever I get.


----------



## Dollychops (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi, I'm sorry you are no further forward in repairing your marriage. I am slightly confused however. You say that you still love him and yet you told him in no uncertain terms 8 years ago that you never loved him. How can you feel a resurgence of love when you've never felt it for that person before, or if you've never truly felt love (as you said last year)? I sense that you now want the unattainable. He is so far beyond your reach because of his complete emotional shutdown from you that you are pining after him and trying desperately to re-engage him. Unfortunately I don't think he has any interest in reestablishing any meaningful relationship with you, so you'd do better to move on completely.I think in your desperation to get a reaction from him for 8 or 9 years you played the "I don't love you card", and then the "I'm not sleeping in the marital bed with you anymore" card in the hopes he'd fight for you. It didn't work out at all how you intended, so in desperate need for affection you tried to appeal to him to work at the marriage...that didn't work. Then you dithered about moving out in the hope again he'd put up a fight...he didn't. He still isn't. In fact he's doing the exact opposite. Please, you need to move on. No wonder you're depressed. You don't know whether you're coming or going. Unfortunately when you play emotional games it can seriously backfire and trust is entirely forfeited. You'd be much better off playing the dating game, divorcing and moving on than trying to appeal to him...that ship has sailed.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

HiMaint57 said:


> Hi, haven't been on here for almost a year. Wanted to share an update: I moved into an apartment in March of 2015. I have enjoyed the silence minus the tension that there was between my husband and me. But apparently there was a misunderstanding about why I left. I thought we would continue to work on the marriage, get counseling, etc. My husband thought otherwise.
> If you ever need someone to teach other members how to go "dark" he has it down to a science. He doesn't call and rarely returns texts; my daughter got married in November, and he pretty much ignored me the entire day. Wouldn't even put his arm around me (at the photographers direction) to take a casual group photo. I guess I expected a bit more as parents of the bride, like we might sit down and reminisce about her growing up years or something.
> 
> Whenever we end up at the same event, he ignores me unless I speak to him first. The crazy thing is that to any other person he interacts with, he acts like nothing is wrong at all. I couldn't do that.
> ...


There is nothing there now. Obviously he's moved on and you need to do the same. The 180 does work if you apply it. At some point it just becomes a faded memory. 

You should plan your on future. Life will become much simpler.


----------



## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

HiMaint57 said:


> Hi, haven't been on here for almost a year. Wanted to share an update: I moved into an apartment in March of 2015. I have enjoyed the silence minus the tension that there was between my husband and me. But apparently there was a misunderstanding about why I left. I thought we would continue to work on the marriage, get counseling, etc. My husband thought otherwise.
> If you ever need someone to teach other members how to go "dark" he has it down to a science. He doesn't call and rarely returns texts; my daughter got married in November, and he pretty much ignored me the entire day. Wouldn't even put his arm around me (at the photographers direction) to take a casual group photo. I guess I expected a bit more as parents of the bride, like we might sit down and reminisce about her growing up years or something.
> 
> Whenever we end up at the same event, he ignores me unless I speak to him first. The crazy thing is that to any other person he interacts with, he acts like nothing is wrong at all. I couldn't do that.
> ...


Imagine a new poster came here and posted this. Would you advise they still try or walk away?

You're still in the relationship emotionally but realistically I think you know this is over and you just don't want to go there. You enjoy the thought of having someone, even if it's just someone who is your husband on paper only. The idea of being 100% single may scare you. Embrace the chance to be with someone who isn't so cold hearted that they can simply cut you out of their life completely. 

You want a happy marriage and he won't even put his arm around you for a wedding photo for his (and yours) child. That's at about as far apart on the spectrum as you can get. It's done.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

When you told your husband that you had never loved him perhaps it wasn't true. What you really wanted to say was that you were disappointed with life and wanted him to wave a magic wand and fix things. You should have gone to work rebuilding your marriage way back then. Also, it is clear that by staying, you both were implicitly expressing some kind of hope or optimism. Neither of you made a first move until you finally took it up.

Moving out simply reinforced the negative situation.

If you had the opportunity to get on your knees and beg your husband for forgiveness while proclaiming that you did love him, would you do it?

To be at the photographers and get some touch of affirmation from him is psychologically a huge move on his part. 

Do you still attend the same church?


----------



## Grogmiester (Nov 23, 2015)

HiMaint57 said:


> I texted him recently because my lease was up, and I asked how he felt about getting back together and working on the marriage. I do still love him, and he has many good qualities. He responded that *"what you want doesn't exist. "* I replied "So you're saying intimacy, cuddling, kissing, holding hands, and being a normal married couple doesn't exist for you? " And he said, *"That about sums it up." *


His replies and actions at your daughters wedding tells me he's not interested in R. You can't undo the past so the only road is forward.

Do you plan on staying married and living apart? 

You need to be thinking about the future and how you want live your life going forward.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Well the catholic church has opened up the options for you now. I was quite surprised this morning to find a like on a year old post. I'm also sorry that the situation did not improve. There is no relationship of trust here. Your husband is right he has nothing to build a relationship on, it doesn't exist any more. The Church will allow you to move on because the marriage does not exist. The sooner you start grieving and accepting it's loss the sooner you can heal. It's time.


----------



## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

HiMaint57 said:


> Hi, haven't been on here for almost a year. Wanted to share an update: I moved into an apartment in March of 2015. I have enjoyed the silence minus the tension that there was between my husband and me. But apparently there was a misunderstanding about why I left. I thought we would continue to work on the marriage, get counseling, etc. My husband thought otherwise.
> If you ever need someone to teach other members how to go "dark" he has it down to a science. He doesn't call and rarely returns texts; my daughter got married in November, and he pretty much ignored me the entire day. Wouldn't even put his arm around me (at the photographers direction) to take a casual group photo. I guess I expected a bit more as parents of the bride, like we might sit down and reminisce about her growing up years or something.
> 
> Whenever we end up at the same event, he ignores me unless I speak to him first. The crazy thing is that to any other person he interacts with, he acts like nothing is wrong at all. I couldn't do that.
> ...


Sorry, I am late to this post, and my post is probably going to be seen as rude, impertinent, impossible and too late. But it is all I have.

This thread has been going for over a year, there are earlier threads too, and the issue has been going for at least 8 years. So it might be seen as too late. But you finally posted that you love him, that is a major change. Why did that only get posted now? What changed?

And have you told him? He says he doesn't remember you saying you don't love him. I doubt it, but maybe that is true. However his later actions are the result of you statement. Basically his actions remember what you said. His actions are now set and for you to change them will require radical actions and changes. Telling him you love him is one step in the right direction.

Of course you also must be careful you are not too doting and wimpy. This is more of a problem with men. And anything is better than passively sitting in your unit.

He said he gave you space because he thought he often upset you when he was close to you. If he does draw close again and you act upset you will only reinforce his separation. Your behaviour has to change, act happy until you feel happy.

One big issue is you are worried about your weight. Lots of females are. My guess is your husband is more worried about your worries than about weight. A smile removes lots of kilos in mens perception. So don't speak your worries. And tackle your weight rather than complaining about it.

Both of you are too passive. This has gone on for 8 years, yet you don't write about fights or arguements. Instead it seems he quietly gave you space and concentrated on the church sound system. And it seems you just sat there wondering when he would initiate. The hugs were a good start, but don't stop. You are trying to overcome an 8 year problem, so many months of hugs are needed, and much more too.

I don't see a passive way out of this. You are the only one here, and you can only change yourself. So you have to change. You need to be more active, talkative and you need to act.

You said he pulled away from you because when he approached you ended up getting upset, worried about weight etc. This has to change and this is a major change. You simultaneously need to talk more and keep your mouth shut when you want to say you are fat.

I think you described a single 2 hour conversation where you tried to talk it through. Sorry but that is not enough. You need many more hours. If a single 2 hour converstion leaves your head spinning then stop, but come back and talk again later. I doubt either of you clearly understand what and why you are in this state, especially in a single conversation. Instead you need to talk and see a way forward.

You say he misunderstood why you moved out. I'm not surprised. I just read through the thread and I don't understand why you moved out either. Once you signed the lease all you needed to do was pay it. If you told your husband you were moving out then you only needed to say you were wrong, you love him and were not leaving.

It reads as if you don't talk much, think you know the others thoughts and then wonder why they don't understand. You need to talk more.

You are still his wife, at least legally. So you have a right to live with him in the family home. So don't sit passively. Fight for that right.

Are you going to the same church as him? You must.

Do the priests know about your situation? Do they approve? My guess is they would be appalled. You are both living as if you are divorced. You both say you don't like divorce, but that is how you are acting. And given you are still married, you are lying as well. So talk to the priests. I expect they will push you two to live together as a normal couple. And they may have leverage with your husband.

There are numerous bible verses that could be used here, eg 1 Corinthians 7:3-4. I expect the priests would bring them up. If you want posters here can give you a dozen. You should repeat them. This style of marriage is not Christian.

Does your daughter have leverage with her father? And what does she think of the situation? Talk to her.

You have to fight for him.

I still can't see what outcome you hope for. All the above assumes you want a proper married life. If you don't then at least talking more and being less passive gives you a better chance of meeting someone else.

And again, sorry if I come accross as rude, but radical steps are needed. The end of the lease gives you a reason to do something, so do something.


----------



## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Pride. Both of you, you and your husband, are going to have to put aside your pride if anything will be restored.

I am 54, a Christian, and I can honestly say that pride is a big factor in preventing restoration in my marriage. Leaving my wife, like you left your husband, is something that I have been trying to do for a while. But I know that divorce is not what will honor God, so I struggle with taking that step. Separation doesn't make it easy to communicate, but it might give opportunity to heal as well as providing clarity.

My wife did the same thing to me several years ago that you did to your husband. She told me that she does not love me nor does she respect me. I understand that she feels like it was a mistake, but she is too proud to own up to saying those things now. I do think she regrets it, but even knowing she regrets it does not prevent me from seeing disrespect and lack of true love for me in the little things that demonstrate the lack. For me, I have had to accept that in order to survive. I have no desire for my wife any more, a lot of that seems a way to protect myself. I think a lot of guys do that. I wonder if your husband has done the same.

I appreciate your honesty here. Reading your story and the comments that followed has helped me. I needed to read your story.


----------



## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

Sorry more rudeness from me, stuff I forgot in the last post. I am not trying to be rude, but find it hard to make a gentle polite comment that is in any way useful. I am fine with you hating me, especially if that is what it takes for you to get up and fight. Then hopefully you will fight for your husband too.

How has your separation impacted on your daughter and her marriage? How is your daughters marriage working? How does she and her husband interact? Is she repeating your behaviour? Or your parents? Or your husbands parents? Maybe you can help her, and she might help you, so talk. Also I would have a bad opinion of my wife if our daughter said my wife was even part of the cause of an eating disorder. Yet you seemed to just casually mention it. I wonder if your husband added another black mark beside your name over this. So does she want to talk through anything? And maybe, just maybe, out of this you will earn some points with your husband and remove one barrier between you to. If nothing else it helps your daughter and shows action.

For me love is a verb, it is about doing stuff. I don't see any action here, just self pity and doubt, so I wonder if you love him. Do you just miss him or love him? Think about why you said you loved him. Why now and not 8 years ago? What does he mean to you? How bad do you feel without him? Get a fire going. Those are the things that you need to tell and show him if you are to break through.

Expect arguements, set backs, tears and begging before any return to a normal marriage. If my wife had done what you have done for 8 years I would not accept her back for anything less, because I would only accept her back after I was convinced she was a different person. If you can't put up with all that then don't even bother.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your husband has no other woman. That is evidence of how deeply injured he is.

Do you have a key to your home?

Why not go over when he is not there and leave food that you know he loves ready to be warmed.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Are you seeing something LW?

You think he is wanting her to fight for him?


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

He is not here to give his point of view. It is possible that he would never entertain the notion of reconciliation.

As long as he is single she can try.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

And as long as she can handle the pain of continued rejection if he never comes around.


----------

