# Please dont say you told me so!!!



## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

10 months on
Dday No 2
He is in love with her
Her H emailed me this morning and told me that he was leaving her today and he thought i should know that they are still in love!
He has emailed their workplace to tell their boss.
The devastation isnt so bad 2nd time around. At least i know now that i wasnt going crazy. It still hurts like hell though.
No more being friends to make him feel better.
With great sadness, i have to report, despite all my efforts, my 18 year marriage is done!
Come on, let me have it .........


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll just let you have a hug.

And half of this pint of Ben and Jerry's if you want 

So sorry...so...were you guys trying to R?


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm so sorry Daisy.

BIG HUGS


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou. Ben and Jerrys sounds good. Haven't eaten all day.

I was hoping for R. I still love him dearly. We were seperated but still spent loads of time together.
I was hoping but now the hope has gone! X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

CantePe said:


> I'm so sorry Daisy.
> 
> BIG HUGS


Thankyou. I need it tonight.
Just going to Concerntrate on me and my children now
I just feel so let down
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mark Val (Mar 2, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thankyou. I need it tonight.
> Just going to Concerntrate on me and my children now
> I just feel so let down
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can prayer work any wonder..? do you believe that a Meta-Cosmic Intelligence has the Cosmos in a Colossal Syntax of a Cosmic Software ..?


---Sorry , that may sound out of situation and esp in your state..

it's not any prank,but srsly and honestly put forth as a suggestion.

Try a prayer...to The Meta-Cosmic One, whether you believe or not..just Try,but strongly and tell your supplications...and wait to see..


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> 10 months on
> Dday No 2
> He is in love with her
> Her H emailed me this morning and told me that he was leaving her today and he thought i should know that they are still in love!
> ...


Hugs to you....
Don't know if you want to go there yet but...
Do you think OWH leaving and the boss finding out may change things? I know you'd like to R and w/ him spending time w/ you/kids still maybe he is confused and maybe things will work out? 

Or 

Should I be dogging him for being such a cheating B#tth3ad??
His freakin' loss! You have such a positive spirit stay strong!!


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Mamatomany said:


> Hugs to you....
> Don't know if you want to go there yet but...
> Do you think OWH leaving and the boss finding out may change things? I know you'd like to R and w/ him spending time w/ you/kids still maybe he is confused and maybe things will work out?
> 
> ...


You know me m2m
I still think he's confused!
Xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurtinme (Feb 16, 2012)

Daisy this is where the good and nice people are, I hope you are ok and i know from reading your posts you have a lot of spirit be kind to yourself pamper and rest all my love xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

People Suck. And they never disappoint on that score.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> People Suck. And they never disappoint on that score.


this is so true...
hugs to you daisygirl 41.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> People Suck. And they never disappoint on that score.


Words of wisdom. 
He has let me down again.
So do I just give up now?
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> this is so true...
> hugs to you daisygirl 41.


Thankyou
The MLC forum says I should ride the storm!
I don't know what to do!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thankyou
> The MLC forum says I should ride the storm!
> I don't know what to do!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


im not one to try and tell anyone what to do 
but i was in a 28 year marriage with the last 14 of her having several affairs.
what i learned from that is that in the future their first time will also be their last as far as im concerned.

good luck to you in whatever you do.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thankyou
> The MLC forum says I should ride the storm!
> I don't know what to do!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which MLC forum?
I bought two books - Surviving his Midlife Crisis (haven't finished my kids are always on my tablet). 
I also just got Divorce Remedy... will be my wkd reading (it looks like the same but newer book of Divorce Busting.

So far from what I read it can go either way... how much [email protected] can we put up with is the real question.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

midlifeclubforum.com!
Was going to get one of the divorce busters books. Should I waste
My money?
It's his 40th tomorrow. He said he wants to do somethIng with me and the kids. What do I do?
He Told me this morning he loves her! So why isn't he spending his bday with her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> midlifeclubforum.com!
> Was going to get one of the divorce busters books. Should I waste
> My money?
> It's his 40th tomorrow. He said he wants to do somethIng with me and the kids. What do I do?
> ...


personally, i would tell him to kindly [email protected] off.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> midlifeclubforum.com!
> Was going to get one of the divorce busters books. Should I waste
> My money?
> It's his 40th tomorrow. He said he wants to do somethIng with me and the kids. What do I do?
> ...



Yep, that's the one I started to read. Bought the book and it totally depressed me because they all seemed to be having a horrible time and not a lot of Rs unless I pick the wrong threads to read!


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I sent him this birthday message just now:

'I haven't bought you a present or a card but I am giving you what you want for your birthday. Your freedom. As much as it breaks my heart I can not continue to be in any kind of relationship with you while you pursue your relationship with ........ Her husband has left her. You are both now free to be together. No more lies or secrets. I want you to know that I have no bad feelings for you. Just love and sadness. I wish you well on your new journey.xxxx'

Once again my heart breaks.
But I'm done
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Please explain. What are these 'events'?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

He knows what he is doing is wrong.
The relationship with her is tainted with guilt and mistrust.
He has not responded to my txt
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Please explain. What are these 'events'?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ignore Mark Val, he has the ramblings of a person who should be sectioned. 


Listen, you did well and kept your dignity in tact. I wish you the best.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I sent him this birthday message just now:
> 
> 'I haven't bought you a present or a card but I am giving you what you want for your birthday. Your freedom. As much as it breaks my heart I can not continue to be in any kind of relationship with you while you pursue your relationship with ........ Her husband has left her. You are both now free to be together. No more lies or secrets. I want you to know that I have no bad feelings for you. Just love and sadness. I wish you well on your new journey.xxxx'
> 
> ...


Ouch! This may have felt good at the moment but is really nothing more than an attempt to make him feel guilty, even though it may not seem like it, it is. Don't feel bad though, I did the same thing except I wasn't as kind and called my wife a "cheater" and "liar" through texts before Valentines day. I know it hurts to not hear from him but you can't say you don't deserve the silent treatment at this moment. 

All is not lost though! Right now he is left with this last impression of you blaming him and attacking his pride which will stay with him as long as he chooses to be upset with you. Our spouses don't want to remember the good things we have done and masochistically keep reminding themselves of how we've hurt them in order to feel their decision to leave was right. You can change this impression though, all it takes is an apology and one act of kindness or faking indifference about how his affair has hurt you in order to change his attitude towards you.

Wait a few days write him an email or a letter apologizing. In this email you need you acknowledge what you did was uncalled for and why you are taking full responsibility for your actions. It isn't fair but he won't take any of the blame at this time so avoid using "and" or "but" after making your apology statement. Accept that he is with her and act happy about it. And really this is the biggest part since he will see you a needy or pursuing him if you don't take yourself out of the running first. And finally avoid asking for anything or trying to get involved in his world, all you can do is wish him well and seem happy even though this situation sucks. Then give him time to cool off. It may take a while for him to talk to you again since he is trying his hardest to pretend the grass is greener and you can bet he harbors some guilt, but there's nothing you can do except wait and stay wonderful.

What I can advise you is to just let him go and act as if everything is perfect yourself. He is free to see her and you are free to date if even just platonically. Without you there chasing or harassing him he will have to get all his needs from her and soon realize that neither the trust or comfort is the same as what you gave him, and the relationship will end all on it's own. By dating someone else you will also remove yourself as a backup option to him which freaks out cheating partners when they realize they can't come back so easily. Just avoid rebound crushes by not allowing yourself to get too attached if you're wanting your husband back.

Yes, deffinately get Divorce Remedy! I can also find the link I had for "Stop Your Divorce Or Lover's Rejection" by Homer MacDonald which was pretty good in showing how the right mindset and turn the tables in your favor. I have a half a dozen more I could reccomend.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nsweet - Thankyou for your post. I appreciate your advice but I've got to be honest with you I don't see what I have to apologise for. He has been lying to me for 10 months. He has hurt me more than I could ever dream. 
But I am letting go. I'm giving him his freedom and on doing that I am now free. Once this heartache subsides I will begin to see the benefits of him bring gone.
I sent him that txt because he wanted to do something today as a family for his birthday but I just didn't have the strbgth to face him.
I miss him with all that I am. I will grieve today, but tommorrow I am going to try and start my new life without him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Nsweet - Thankyou for your post. I appreciate your advice but I've got to be honest with you I don't see what I have to apologise for. He has been lying to me for 10 months. He has hurt me more than I could ever dream.
> But I am letting go. I'm giving him his freedom and on doing that I am now free. Once this heartache subsides I will begin to see the benefits of him bring gone.
> I sent him that txt because he wanted to do something today as a family for his birthday but I just didn't have the strbgth to face him.
> I miss him with all that I am. I will grieve today, but tommorrow I am going to try and start my new life without him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have every right to feel hurt by his cheating and lies but don't you think it was equally as hurtful to him to reach out to you and be blamed like that, on his birthday of all days. Of course you are going to feel like you have nothing to apologize for and need as much time to cool off as possible. And he needs his freedom as much as you need yours to let go of these emotions that control you and find your happiness. 

I strongly urge you to leave him with a positive memory before you leave him alone. It may not seem like much but a belated birthday card would really make a difference and show him you're not bitter and you don't hate him. Which you do not hate him, you hate the memories of him cheating but not the person. And him wanting to be with you is time not spent with her, keep that in mind. I have given birthday cards to exes who cheated and dumped me simply because it was a show of good faith and the relationship did mean something to me. I found out later that it's made their day and by that time they had broken up with whoever they left me for. It may sound silly but I believe even your worst enemy deserve a birthday card.

You'll find later on that he still carries a torch for you but right now both of your emotions will get in the way and you're more than likely to fight like children until you get everything out. If you can take the initiative to act like this doesn't bother you and be the better women he will respect you. And trust me there is a tug of war going on between you and the other woman over him. The better you can behave about this around him and just let her have him then the more needy and grabby she will become until he can't stand her. Then who comes out on top?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou I understand now. 
So maybe I should go bowling with them this afternoon then?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Ok I've taken your advice Nsweet. I just rang him. I told him that we can go out this afternoon as a family for the kids. I told him I didn't want any hard feelings between us. He couldn't talk. He was sobbing. He's picking us up at 1 o clock.
Gonna make sure I look damn hot!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

The shocking truth is that our spouses don't want to give up the good relationship they had, but their thoughts about us convince them thier emotions have changed and they convince themselves otherwise. He was crying because he felt so guilty about thinking of you as this bad person and taking you for granted, so when you showed him this caring woman he fell in love with and left he punished himself instead of blaming you. 

I know I never saw my wife cry as hard as she did when signing those divorce papers even though she initiated the process to be with another guy. This gives you a glimse of who he really is under the affair fog and let you see he is still your husband in some ways, though you should know he will shift back and forth between affectionate towards you and cold-hearted as he lets himself be swayed by his emotions and refusal to accept reponsibility. Don't worry this is very typical and I know my wife shifts like she has multiple personalities.

Take my advice and patch things up as best as you can when you see him, then stay friendly. What I am thinking how about you try to set up lunch with him every other Saturday with you and your kids to see their dad. You will keep things light and have small happy talk, NOTHING ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP! I promise you it won't be long before before the other woman get's overly controlling and tries to keep him from seeing you or tag along and make things uncomfortable. She can't do a thing to keep him away from his kids if he misses them. Sooner or later her childish need to be with him will make him regret ever picking her over you. At that time you better damn well be everything he loved and watch your hurtful words. There will be time to talk to him about how he hurt your trust later.


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## faithaqua (Nov 28, 2011)

Daisy---I'm so sorry. I have been part of this forum for a few months and you're always giving great feedback to other folks. 
I too am in the place of 'we told you so' and facing the facts. I am still married on paper and in my heart. My husband...is not. He sent me a text last night asking if I was on dating sites---what? Very strange and painful to think that he thinks I would stoop to his level. Sigh.
Oh, and I loved your post---looked like a poem---it's just where I'm at. Hang in there.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

faithaqua said:


> He sent me a text last night asking if I was on dating sites


:rofl:LMFAO, If I had a nickel for everytime my wife asked me if I was dating, before I exposed her affair.... 
FYI the "are you dating" question is his way of asking "are you still available?" and "have you replaced me?" and usual or affair spouses. Trust me the second you say yes instead of scoffing or saying no he will be all over you to reel you in as a second option. It's not really the Christian thing to do date others when you respect and honor marriage but it does help your situation when the wayard spouse feels they are losing you and have been replaced.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nsweet
I've pm'd you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hes on his way. Feel very nervous!
Will let you know 2 night how it goes
Thx all
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Hes on his way. Feel very nervous!
> Will let you know 2 night how it goes
> Thx all
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow! So much went on while I was sleeping. 
I actually liked your bday text to him, but it sounds like you wanted to go. I hope you have a good time and it isn't so hard on you. Maybe this way he will see that you are still trying after he hurt you so much yesterday. Good luck and I know you have the strength to make it through the day.

Nsweet, DG's H isn't just having an affair... he is in MLC so he isn't acting like a normal WH, having the affair fog plus his own personal crisis. What makes sense to do for wayward partners won't have same effect on MLCrs. I did get Divorce Remedy and have read Homer's stuff... I thought the article I found summarizing his stuff was good but incomplete and didn't fit (though I tried) w/ MLC issue, but I will remember it for my next relationship.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Nsweet said:


> Our spouses don't want to remember the good things we have done and masochistically keep reminding themselves of how we've hurt them in order to feel their decision to leave was right.


i totally agree with this point.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> *And finally avoid asking for anything or trying to get involved in his world, all you can do is wish him well and seem happy even though this situation sucks.* Then give him time to cool off. It may take a while for him to talk to you again since he is trying his hardest to pretend the grass is greener and you can bet he harbors some guilt, but there's nothing you can do except wait and stay wonderful.
> 
> What I can advise you is to just let him go and act as if everything is perfect yourself. He is free to see her and you are free to date if even just platonically. Without you there chasing or harassing him he will have to get all his needs from her and soon realize that neither the trust or comfort is the same as what you gave him, and the relationship will end all on it's own. *By dating someone else you will also remove yourself as a backup option to him which freaks out cheating partners when they realize they can't come back so easily. Just avoid rebound crushes by not allowing yourself to get too attached if you're wanting your husband back.*


Nsweet, I think you have something there about 'his world' at least for me... 
My H asks questions and I usually answer w/ some vagueness and I tried to protect him from knowing the hurt he has done so not to upset him during his crisis, but I think I am done with that he needs to know the damage he is causing the kids. 

But if I ask him a question for a subject he brings up... he is very vague and often is just answering "ok" so really as soon as he does that I just stop talking to him. 

As far as dating someone else... I have mixed feelings about that. She has 'given' him his freedom, so maybe if she at least is seen to be dating he may fear losing her, but it can also cloud the matter and confuse her and the kids more (esp if she likes the guy). I am speaking of DG, but also myself. I don't know if I can wait 10 months... b/c my H hasn't been as 'nice' as DG's and I have been denied any affection/kindness for months. It's been 3 complete mean months - and 3 months of little affection b4 that w/disconnection ... My main love languages (affection/affirmations) so dating may be one of those things that I may need to do, but it would definitely confuse the kids/maybe us women too.


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## Stryker (Feb 3, 2012)

by this :*'I haven't bought you a present or a card but I am giving you what you want for your birthday. Your freedom. As much as it breaks my heart I can not continue to be in any kind of relationship with you while you pursue your relationship with ........ Her husband has left her. You are both now free to be together. No more lies or secrets. I want you to know that I have no bad feelings for you. Just love and sadness. I wish you well on your new journey.xxxx'
*

She was trying to show her hurt and love to make him realize as a LAST ATTEMPT to change his mind by making him in pressure of the wrong he is doing to their Love, her Love..Infact thats a Love Text in an Injured Form for breaking a hardened heart of the hubby...

and he was , it seems not as hardened as it was thought,but still we need to see what has happened with the birthday aftermath ...let it be good news ..


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> Nsweet, I think you have something there about 'his world' at least for me...
> My H asks questions and I usually answer w/ some vagueness and I tried to protect him from knowing the hurt he has done so not to upset him during his crisis, but I think I am done with that he needs to know the damage he is causing the kids.
> 
> But if I ask him a question for a subject he brings up... he is very vague and often is just answering "ok" so really as soon as he does that I just stop talking to him.
> ...


Right, I didn't take into account that this was a MLC for him and how dating might upset the kids. My mistake

So with a MLC you have a crisis state where he is frantically searching for an identity to hold onto that will allow him to avoid taking responsibility for his life. He may claim that oneday he realized he needs to "find himself" which is universal for the fog. And at this time he is going to push away everything that reminds him he is a responsible adult including you and the kids. Don't be alarmed by this, it's not going to last forever. As hard as it is right now you will need to let him go experience that life is hard all on it's own but even harder when you can't accept things aren't going to be perfect no matter how much you try to make it so.

Mamatomany, 
Unfortunately you're going to have to put up with those feelings for a while and vent to everyone else except him. Trust me on this you will only push him away further if he feels any pressure to feel different about you or his decision to leave. A few counseling sessions and mood stabilizers can really make a difference in how you handle these hard times. 

The limited interest responses are nothing you can't overcome easily. I will try to put this answer as simply as I can.... If he won't talk to you then stop talking to him, leave him alone, and act perfectly happy. Without you checking up on him or asking him anything not related to divorce, you give him the peace and space he thought he wanted and let everything you say seem more important. Trust me, this works when nothing else does but it requires so much self control not to explode over the little things and pry into his life. 

It is also very common for the wayward spouse at this time to say or promise something oneday and then completely forget the next and have these selfish moments as their minds won't let them give to the partner they associate discomfort with. I've had whole converations over the phone where my wife promised me up and down she would do the smallest thing and then forget minutes later. Let's just say they are't themselves at this time and leave it at that.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Nsweet said:


> Mamatomany,
> Unfortunately you're going to have to put up with those feelings for a while and vent to everyone else except him. Trust me on this you will only push him away further if he feels any pressure to feel different about you or his decision to leave. A few counseling sessions and mood stabilizers can really make a difference in how you handle these hard times.
> 
> The limited interest responses are nothing you can't overcome easily. I will try to put this answer as simply as I can.... If he won't talk to you then stop talking to him, leave him alone, and act perfectly happy. Without you checking up on him or asking him anything not related to divorce, you give him the peace and space he thought he wanted and let everything you say seem more important. Trust me, this works when nothing else does but it requires so much self control not to explode over the little things and pry into his life.
> ...



Nsweet, Yeah, I don't ever initiate contact and I rarely initiate a subject... I have been able to do a hard 180, but once in a while I don't want to go too hard and show that I am still a little interested because the door is still open if he wants back in. I try not to ask him for anything as far as the responsibilities he has ran from... It just is frustrating. 

As far as letting him know the damage he is causing to the kids (put on AD meds) he really seems to have NO clue why they are depressed/anxious.  I have kept that type of thing from him so not to add to his crisis but he questions it when he finally hears about like I kept it from him on purpose... So mixed up.

BTW you sound more mature than your years.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Daisy, How did it go?


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> Nsweet, Yeah, I don't ever initiate contact and I rarely initiate a subject... I have been able to do a hard 180, but once in a while I don't want to go too hard and show that I am still a little interested because the door is still open if he wants back in. I try not to ask him for anything as far as the responsibilities he has ran from... It just is frustrating.
> 
> As far as letting him know the damage he is causing to the kids (put on AD meds) he really seems to have NO clue why they are depressed/anxious.  I have kept that type of thing from him so not to add to his crisis but he questions it when he finally hears about like I kept it from him on purpose... So mixed up.
> 
> BTW you sound more mature than your years.


You're going to find yourself constantly questioning whether or not you are doing the right thing throughout your 180, which is completely natural. You will question if he loves you often and if you should chase him to let him know you care. Though this may seem like the right choice you need to keep reminding yourself "he knows". 

You've told him you would rather work on the marriage than see him go, but you will be ok with whatever is decision is and you won't be there to add drama to his life. Once you've told him this he already know how you feel and you don't have to constantly remind him. And believe me, he knows he is tearing the family apart and hurting the kids but he won't rake responsibility for it yet.

You can just see how things go while limiting contact and acting "as if" about his life, which is long wait and see process that could take months or years. Or you could take the all or nothing approach and gently tell him ONCE how he is hurting the kids without casting blame or trying to make him feel guilty. This takes a lot of effort and practice to keep your emotions in control which is why letters work better. You will need to take the assertive and higher path here and not try to pressure him to feel different about his decision to leave, or you may find yourself not hearing from him for quite a while. Go with your gut feeling when you are calm and all is well and make the right decision.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi everyone. I'm exhausted!! It's been an emotional but productive day I think.
H came I pick us up and came in the house to open his cards. 
When he opened mine(a simple to my H on his birthday, love now and always) he burst into tears and had to go into the bathroom to compose him self!
Went shopping and bowling. Was fun, lots of banter, eye contact and almost flirting from him. We then went for pizza. He moved his chair so he Cld sit next to me!
I stayed. Alm and controlled throughout. Had fun and enjoyed.
Got back to my house. He thanked me for coming out and said he had a lovely time. I invited him in and he stayed until about 11.15! 
So I tried not to talk about us or ow but the subject did come up. So maybe it would be better for me to break it down

1) He takes my D swimming on a Monday. I found out yesterday that the ow also goes with her kids (yeh I was pissed off with that one). Anyway I acted really cool and said ' if you are going to meet ....at swimming 2 morro I don't want D to go. You can drop her in my mums (I'm in work). Without hesitating he said 'I'm not going. No need to worry'

2) As we were getting out of the car by my house I said to him I'd had a good time, maybe we could do it again. He was eager. Then I said 'oh but we can't can we because you are going to be in a relationship with her now'. He replied ' I don't know. I don't know what I want'. I just got out of the car.

3) at about 7 pm I went to have a lie down I told him to come and wake me in an hour. When he did he came a laid on the bed with me and started crying. I asked him what was wrong. 
He's sorry
He's confused
He really stressed out
Doesn't know what to think or do anymore etc etc etc!!
BUT he then said that he was so stressed out last week that he took a razor blade and cut himself and it helped. He felt better! 
I didn't freak out. I just let him talk. We talked about his father. He is a very controlling and manipulative man. He was almost abusive to my H when he was a boy. H said he used to cut himself when he was younger. His dad caught him once and he locked him in the shed! There's a lot I Cld go into about this but I won't but my H has a lot of baggage from his childhood that has never been dealt with. 
We have talked in the past about him going for IC. He had always flatly refused. I think I have now almost persuaded him that he should go. I am going at the moment and told him how much it has helped me. I really hope he goes. He desperately needs to talk to someone.

My H is in a serious MLC. 
I am going to continue to distance myself from him to protect my heart BUT I can't just cut him off and leave him to get through this without my support. Yes he's hurt me, he's lied and deceived me but he is my family and I won't just abandon him.

There is more. We talked about the OW. But I'm tired now and will update you on that tomorrow.
When he left, we hugged and cried and he held me tight. He said if I need anything, day or night to just ring him
Blimey I'm worn out!
Thank you all for listening
You have all helped me today more than you know
Xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Bet you anything he hasn't told the OW about his suicidal tendencies. I will post more about this later but it sounds like you're doing well DG.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm sure he hasn't!
So the OW. Before I go on I want to point out. As I'm sure somebody will, that, yes, I know he has lied to me and deceived me and hurt me more than I ever could imagine and I haven't forgotten that. But I also cannot brush aside that for 17 years my H was a loving, faithful man! I'm sure that counts for something!

So after the talk about his cutting etc I said to him
'I understand that you are under a lot of pressure at the moment, and I also understand that you don't lOve me anymore, but as much as this hurts me I still care about you and it worries me to see you so upset.
All this time he is crying and says ' you're not supposed to be like this, you're supposed to hate me'
So I say, yes I know, but I don't. I still believe in my marriage vows. I told him I was glad I now know the truth and that it has been a relief. I can now Concerntrate on my life and the children and move forward. 
He says ' I don't want you to think I'm going to be going over to see her every chance I get, because I'm not'
Me ' well you can now, you are free to do what you want, and so is she, isn't that what you wanted?'
More crying, more confusion!
Me -' I'm not telling you what to do but just be careful. I think you are under a lit of pressure at the moment and it might be a good idea for you to take some time out for yourself. Don't worry about me or her just take some time to clear your head.'
He agreed and said I was right!
We talked then about him maybe taking a camping trip on his own ( he said he always felt guilty about doing things for himself and we discussed this)
I suggested he start a journal as it helps me, he took that on board too.

So look I'm under no illusion that my marriage is going to work out afterall. He sees her everyday in work and that's why he still thinks he loves her. But I still think up until now they have been in their little fantasy bubble. But now everyone in work will know about it, my kids now, her H has left her (with 2 kids). I need to be the strong one now I bet she thinks everything is going to go her way now, but we all know the fantasy is comPletely different from the reality. My H had A LOT of baggage. I wonder if she's ready for it!!

Advice Please re; do I know do a hard 180 in him or do I do what my heart is telling me? Afterall if he lOved her that much, why did he choose to spend his birthday with me and not het?
Thanks everyone
ESP Nsweet and M2M. Your support had got me through a very difficult time
Xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Sorry for typo errors. I'm on my iPhone x
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I'm sure he hasn't!
> So the OW. Before I go on I want to point out. As I'm sure somebody will, that, yes, I know he has lied to me and deceived me and hurt me more than I ever could imagine and I haven't forgotten that. But I also cannot brush aside that for 17 years my H was a loving, faithful man! I'm sure that counts for something!
> 
> So after the talk about his cutting etc I said to him
> ...


I am very impressed with the way you are handel this situation DG. Bravo! :smthumbup: And yes, even though it hurts right now and you sometimes feel taken advantage of and used, you can't let what's going on now change your mind about 17 years of good marriage or change your view of him as a person. If you feel he is worth the pain and self sacrifice of fighting for then that is true love and devotion. You can bet OW can't say the same for that level of commitment.

As you can see he is looking for any reason to push you away and will go to great extents and do mental gymnastics to convince himself you are a bad person, but you aren't. This is his way of avoiding responsibility for choosing to have his affair and leave behind the kids and wife he thought was causing all his problems. Right now he is confused about your indifference and looking for reasons to keep you and her at the same time and by not allowing him to do this you are forcing him to see he is giving up a great woman for a piece of a$$. 

I also wanted to warn you about being his shoulder to cry on at this time. Him telling you about his cutting and crying is clearly a cry for help and not something he would want to reveal to a woman he is trying to impress and keep but he knows you will understand. Take it from a guy who recovered from suicidal tendencies and lived to help others. This is something he needs to figure out for himself and no amount of hospitalization or counselling will help him if he doesn't want to improve himself. Trust me, he won't kill himself because he knows he is giving up too much and you truely love him. He will just have a few cries for help and run to you when he feels bad. Do your best to nudge him in her direction for that.
I speak from experience here and I admit I also played the role of Daddy/Dr.Phill to my wife and all it did was improve her relationship with the OM. 

I hate to point it out but he will keep having an affair for quite a while and get his dopamine fix from her while living in the confused fog for as long as he can. The other woman will do her best to convince him she is the better choice but not necessarily push him to divorce you, she will deffinately seed it in his mind though. I want to say if the affair has been going on for longer than six months they have for sure exchanged "I love you's", small gifts like jewelry, and she suggested the idea of marriage but this was all a ploy to keep him attracted. She will do anything at this time to impress him including but not limited to trying to turn your kids against you whenever they are with him, extreme sexual acts that you refused to do, gaslighting you to better herself in his mind; and even begging, crying, or emergency calls. Think of everything you did to keep him when first dating and magnify it by freaken pathetic:rofl: In all reality any woman who would sleep with a married man, try to exchange your wedding ring for hers, and attempt to steal him away from a loving family is a LOSER. 
BTW this is all a manipulation technique I am all to familiar with called a "relationship destroyer" and it works both ways sister. You can just as easily obtain information about her from what he says and have him question seeing her but this is a long drawn out complicated process because you can't rush into it or he will shut you out and run to her.

This may be one of those situations where you would do best to ignore him as much as possible except to visit the kids on weekends. He will respect you more for doing this as he knows he doesn't deserve unconditional love when he doesn't give it. A great rule of thumb is to give him 2/3 of the interest he gives you which could mean ignoring a few calls if you don't feel like talking and waiting a few hours to return text messages if he is doing this to you. 

You still have good contact and he wants to keep talking to and visiting you, which is awesome. If he was the one to start the divorce process you have a fair chance of stopping it or slowing it down, though I am thinking reconciliation would have a better chance if you let the divorce go through and let her keep him while you turn into supermom. You'll act indifferent about it either way while she digs her claws in him and thinks she's won, then when it's all over sooner or later she stops being so attractive and doing all the things he left you for and makes him rethink ever leaving the kind woman you are. 

I also have to point out that he will be the father figure to FOUR children and paying child support and possibly spousal support if divorce happens. So it either years of regret for his affair or years of lost wages and regret.


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## cabbage65 (Feb 14, 2012)

Nsweet i disagree that was a heartfelt letter and she's a better person than i to send it, not sure i could.


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## Stryker (Feb 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> So after the talk about his cutting etc I said to him
> 'I understand that you are under a lot of pressure at the moment, and I also understand that you don't lOve me anymore, but as much as this hurts me I still care about you and it worries me to see you so upset.
> 
> ---You are still trying the Technique Care for him and Indifference on their Union, though you know , you dont ever wish that shud happen in full..you play for a "Realize,Repent ,Come Back To Me"...you are insisting to him of your Love in a reverse manner... Good Going there...BUT too much push over there can Recoil and Reverse Swing to make him to depart than come closer...
> ...


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou all for your input
We spoke on the phone last night
He is in love with her
I'm letting him go
I cannot live with all the lies and deceit any more.
I have to think of my sanity for myself and my children.
Let's just see if his fantasy is a reality
DG
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm so sorry, DG. I have read this thread, and you sound like such a sweet, caring, strong woman. 

I hate how the BSs always corrupt the word 'love.' What they have is nothing like love. It is hormone-fueled infatuation. They get addicted to the high, but it is not being 'in love.' Why is it that seemingly intelligent adults can be successful in their jobs or businesses, but when somebody comes along and smiles at them, their brains dissolve and go straight to their crotches. Grrr. This shouldn't be happening to you. 

Please take good care of yourself. ((hugs))


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou
I feel so low right now but I know I'm doing the right thing
When will the tears and the hurt stop
It's unbearable
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I think I have just had an epiphany!!
I am not grieving for my marriage. I did that when he left and do you know what at this particular moment I'm not even bothered that he is there in school with her.
I really am done
BUT
I am going to miss my friend ( all be it a friend that lies!) he says he doesn't live me anymore but he says he cares deeply for me and would like us to be friends!
I would like this too. 
We have 3 beautiful children who need us both
Can we still be friends?
I'd like to think so.
I honestly have NoI bad feelings towards him whatsoever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Be careful, DG! Yes, you miss your friend -- that was part of the marriage. I think it's pretty near impossible for someone who truly loved another to be just a friend. And, like you said, after he has lied and betrayed you, he is not someone you want as a friend. Really. 

I thought of this analogy when I was trying to decide if I would go to STBXHs birthday party last fall. He left it 'up to me,' but certainly didn't act like he really wanted me there. I was trying to not cause upset for our son, and frankly, look like the 'better person' to the friends who invited me. Then I thought about it: I was bullied a lot in school. If the bully had invited me to her birthday party, would I have gone? Sure, because I would be deluded into hoping it would mean she was now my friend and would not bully me anymore - she'd probably just want a gift. If a party was thrown in the bully's honor, would I go? No -- why would I want to honor someone who made my life utterly unbearable every day. I realized that there was no longer much difference between how STBXH treated me and how the school bully treated me. Made my decision much easier. 

Don't go out of your way to be nice to him. Stay a nice *person*, take care of yourself, and do the 180 as much as you can. If he wants to be your friend, make him earn it.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thx angelpixie
That was a good analogy
I aim to be very cautious. I can be too giving at times and I need to keep this in check
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

Too early for friendship.. he's not lying to you anymore. *HE LOVES HER AND YOU ARE A FRIEND.....*

NO friendship-- co-parenting only. You will never heal because you are trying to justify his actions because of his past. He is *GROWN*, he eating his cake and after the divorce you will become the *OW*.. move on


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thankyou all for your input
> We spoke on the phone last night
> He is in love with her
> I'm letting him go
> ...


I am happy and sad for you at the same time. I am happy if you are coming to peace where you can move on... Sad because you and I both wanted things to end differently in our situations. I would have liked for one of us women dumpees to have her H return and feel the fool. Do what makes you feel good for now... and later. That's what our men are doing. Make you and your kids the priority... someone has to.

I did PM you.


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## Stryker (Feb 3, 2012)

This Lady, should muster up, be more courageous,esp as of now...and ever..

What's impossible to her ,if at all, or to anyone else regard to the matter , would be taken to The Court of Highest Justice,rightaway...where no human could manipulate before The Bema Seat ...and soon, I believe, strongly, that deserving will have the reward ...in the earnestness of the matter of fact, which can happen too soon or suddenly ..or in some time...thus all things could work,within the destined time and space, for all good..

Henceforth Faith ,Hope and Courage...


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I think I have just had an epiphany!!
> I am not grieving for my marriage. I did that when he left and do you know what at this particular moment I'm not even bothered that he is there in school with her.
> I really am done
> BUT
> ...


Letting go can be the most psychologically freeing thing you can do when you've been holding onto an expected outcome for so long. But what are you really giving up? Is it the desire to get him to change his mind or the pressure on yourself to change the outcome?

So what if your husband says he doesn't love you, he still wants you in his life. He still cares about you since he wanted to share his birthday and his problems with you, which is more than he is sharing with her. He will soon want to come to you complaining about his perfect OW. And honestly that's more than some of us are getting. He is just confused and hoping divorce will make everything turn out better but it wont, and when she starts treating him like dirt he will come around. Love is nothing more than a final qualification when a set of criteria is met. You're still in there but you've been moved back a few. 

You may not see it but it's like you're standing over a pile of exensive Christmas gifts and complaining about not getting the pony you asked for. You've got the friendship all relationships depend on and you're pitching a fit because he won't say "I love you" right now. Honetly you're giving up hope too soon. You can give up the longing and the pressure on yourself and go better your life without him, but don't give up on a friendship with him completely. He may be an arrogant [email protected]$$ for the time being but you have clearly seen past that.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nsweet
I think I love you! Lol
He came to see the kids earlier and was here about 4 hrs.
We chatted about this n that. I mentioned sorting stuff out about the divorce he asked if we could leave it until the weekend. I won't bring it up again.
We have been txtin back and fore this last hour. Just funny lighthearted stuff!
He mentioned us going surfing with the kids in the upcoming school hols!
Yes I know he's cake eating, and I keep reminding myself that he loves someone else but to be honest even though it hurts like hell we r getting on better than we have in ages!
God I'm so confused! 
I suppose in answer to your question I am giving up on the pressure i have put on myself to try and change his mind

How many of these affairs last anyway? Now that it's all out in the open does that mean that the thrill will diminish somewhat?
Oh and I've been in contact with the OWH too. Just keeping each other updated on the situation. Is this a good idea?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Mamatomany said:


> I am happy and sad for you at the same time. I am happy if you are coming to peace where you can move on... Sad because you and I both wanted things to end differently in our situations. I would have liked for one of us women dumpees to have her H return and feel the fool. Do what makes you feel good for now... and later. That's what our men are doing. Make you and your kids the priority... someone has to.
> 
> I did PM you.


Sorry M2M. Didn't see ur pm. Will respond 2 morro. 
Hugs to you x
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Nsweet
> I think I love you! Lol
> He came to see the kids earlier and was here about 4 hrs.
> We chatted about this n that. I mentioned sorting stuff out about the divorce he asked if we could leave it until the weekend. I won't bring it up again.
> ...


Awww. Careful now, you wouldn't be the only girl I've helped say that and chase after me. This is about helping you!

I think it's important to allow a little cake eating at this time. You want him coming to you a little at first and then more an more until basically he is cheating on her with you. To do this he needs to be having fun with you and not feeling guilty or pressurd to tell you anyting. Maybe all of that will happen later but for now just say "we will talk about that when you're ready, not now", then be willing to listen if he wants to confess or complain. That's all he ever wanted anyways, right? And btw it hurts just as much as it heals knowing the truth and putting together what happened from what little he tells you, but remember one thing.... he is not the same person anymore and neither are you!

Don't make the mistake I made and say hurtful words about him or the affair partner, and how you did everything to get back together, or you will be back to having no contact from him (Yes,I know it was foolish back-slide and I was an emotinal wreck that day). This was after exposure and when I got sick of being the shoulder to cry on so I lashed out like most BS's do.
If that happens you will need to apologize sincerely and take all the blame, and then leave it up to him to forgive you. No matter how well you apologize or act friendly he won't trust you or open up to you for quite some time, at least until he starts to miss the good things about you. Do not fret it though, no matter what he knows you are a good person and are normally gentle and kind. You'll just need to make sure not to make that mistake again for a long long time.

The secret most MCs never share is that affairs are doomed to fail from the very start. Cheating Spouses: 6 Reasons Why Their Affair Won I love this article!
Most of MCs say they lose their thrill within 6 months of exposure because they aren't as taboo, but I am finding out that they can last longer (2+ yrs if addictive and emotional) which is a long time to hold out. It's very unlikely for them to marry and even less of a chance that they will stay together since BOTH not one or the other but BOTH spouses ARE CHEATERS. Think they will trust each other to work late? 

Others might warn you against seeing her H and forming a possible affair, which is good advice you need to keep your friendly distance. And I have had to make that same move twice now with lonely hearts. I believe he may be the key to ending this affair even sooner. Affair spouses are super jealous to begin with and hate to lose us as an option, that's why they always ask us if we're dating. So what better way to shake them up than to spend some time with her H as "just friends". Here's the thing, you won't be pursuing him for romance but to talk about getting back your H. Think of him as the best divorce coach you wil ever have because he can tell you everything wrong with the OW just like you can tell all about your H. It may not be a magic cure but you sure will feel better knowing how she isn't perfect after all.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Daisy,

I have been following this thread...and I have identified so much with it. My husband left me and my infant son in October. I kept "leaving the door open" and hoping that he was just going through a middle-life-crisis and that he would eventually come back to me. He didn't. He is in love with his graduate student. 

For the past month or so, he was hiding the extent of his relationship to me. I knew they were "special friends", but I confirm the affair by finding pictures on his Walgreen's photo account.

My heart sank when I saw those pictures, but I was so glad to finally know the truth. It hurts to realize that your husband is in love and leaving you for someone else. But, it is also so good to get of this "limbo"...I felt like I have just been waiting for him finally decide if he wanted to be with me or not for months. 

I am mourning the loss of the man that i thought I married. He was my very best friend. But, that man is no longer here. The man that my husband is just disgusts me to no end. My counselor told me that I should not try to be friends with my stbxh. I need to protect my heart and detach as much as possiblee. She said maybe down the road, I can explore the possibility of being friends with him.

At first it was really hard. I missed just hanging out with him and having a beer, playing a video game, or watching a movie. But the more and more time that I spend apart from him, the more I realize that he is just not the type of person I would even want to hang out with. What kind of man leaves his wife and child for another woman? What kind of man spends the evening that his wife gives birth with his graduate student? What kind of man abandons his child to be with a 25 year old girl? Who does that? You husband is having an affair with a co-worker. What sort of low-life does that?

This may seem harsh...because if you are like me, you might tend to make excuses for your husband. ...he is depressed....he is confused...he is going through a tough time...blah blah blah. But, the truth is, there is no excuse for disrespecting his marriage vows in this way. There is no excuse for doing this to his family.

I would highly recommend that you fight the urge to respond to him when he banters with you through text messages. I would highly recommend that you ask him to meet the kids somewhere other than your house.

My counselor told me that I should not have my stbxh over to my house to babysit. (I have no family here, so when I go out with friends or have a volleyball game or something I have to ask my stbxh to watch my son for me). I have been trying to take my son over to my stbxh's apartment when I need him to babysit. I used to have him come over to my house because it was just easier. But, I feel much better after having placed these boundries on our relationship. He is not my friend. I would never be friends with someone like him. He is simply my co-parent. 

Having these boundaries in place has really helped me to protect my heart. ...and if you catch yourself thinking about your husband or trying to figure out what is going on inside of his head, just STOP. Hold up a visual stop sign in your head, and just stop those thoughts. It is a waste of time. Just focus on being the best mom that you can be.

This is just my 2-cents. You can take it or leave it. I know that I am in no place to give advice, but I will have to say that all these things have helped me to protect my heart.

I feel for you!


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Oh...and my husband cut himself too last summer when I found out about his "special friendship" with this girl. We had a big fight about the inappropriateness of this relationship...especially since this girl was his graduate student. 

That night, he drank too much and cut himself. I felt badly for him at the time...and I was really worried about him, and it certainly made me forget about how upset and hurt I was to find out about his emotional affair. But, looking back on it now, I think that it was just a way for him to get attention--from both me and his affair partner. His affair partner does research in self-harm. So, I am sure that he got a LOT of attention from her when he cut himself.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Daisy, have you looked at the MLC forum for advice or seen similarities of your story there? Spouses going through MLC are so different from spouses who have have affairs, they truly are.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou all again. 
Will repond when I have a chance to digest everything.
M2M I really thought he was having a MLC but how can I be sure. 
He really seems to have made a close bond with this woman which started over the death of her mother. He sympathised with her and it's gone from there!
My H is a very deep and sensitive man. You can see the guilt and Shame written all over his face. He certainly doesn't act like a man in the grips of a carefree affair!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Jpr I appreciate your input. I wish I was where you are at, unfortunately I stiil want my H. Despite everything that has happened I still care for him deeply and really don't want to give up yet x
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nsweet said:


> Awww. Careful now, you wouldn't be the only girl I've helped say that and chase after me. This is about helping you!
> 
> I think it's important to allow a little cake eating at this time. You want him coming to you a little at first and then more an more until basically he is cheating on her with you. To do this he needs to be having fun with you and not feeling guilty or pressurd to tell you anyting. Maybe all of that will happen later but for now just say "we will talk about that when you're ready, not now", then be willing to listen if he wants to confess or complain. That's all he ever wanted anyways, right? And btw it hurts just as much as it heals knowing the truth and putting together what happened from what little he tells you, but remember one thing.... he is not the same person anymore and neither are you!
> 
> ...


Are you just telling me what I want to hear?? Lol!
I was just thinking this morning that now that the 'truth' is out I'm almost becoming the OW! I bet he doesn't tell her how much time he still spends with us!
He is Definately not ready to cut ties with me yet. I know that for sure.
Maybe it's because he feels guilty? Probably but it doesn't really matter at this point.
We still talk and laugh and I have not said one bad word against her, just aknowledged (sp) what he tells me and agreed about his feelings!
Oh and just to clarify, he hasnt asked for a divorcem or seperate finances and we have never had NC between us. We have been in touch by txt everyday and the longest we have gone without seeing each other is 2 days!! Crazy eh? Ive still got keys to his flat. I asked him yesterday if he wanted them back and he said no. Im guessing some of this may change now though.
As i said to M2M they bonded over the death of her mother, which is something they have both experienced. Aparently she was very low and turned to him for sympathy. I just wonder if the bond is too strong now to break! He STILL insists that they havent slept together though!
It's very tough!
Just going to look at the links and just been to get my 5htp!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Are you just telling me what I want to hear?? Lol!
> I was just thinking this morning that now that the 'truth' is out I'm almost becoming the OW! I bet he doesn't tell her how much time he still spends with us!
> He is Definately not ready to cut ties with me yet. I know that for sure.
> Maybe it's because he feels guilty? Probably but it doesn't really matter at this point.
> ...


In a way, Yes. Your situation is NOT hopeless and I am here to offer all the insight I can while I am here. You're lucky I've taken a shine to your story.

He is deffinately addicted to you, but for how long can you keep him hooked? The answer is: for as long as he receives more value from you than he gets from her or any other competition. If this sounds frightening it really isn't. Simply put, you will attract him back by being exactly what he is looking for and then playing that role to a T. He is looking for you to be his best friend, the one he shares little secrets with and goes to family outing together. This is how his relationship started with her and this is how we are going to reverse it. 

Start slowly and just be there to listen to him once a week if he needs you, if there is no contact then understand he is pushing through this rebound faster. You won't try to fix any of his problems and never try to talk about yours, just listen and tell him you understand but don't allow him to cry to you. He won't respect you much if he treats you like dear old mamma now will he. From now on you're not his wife your a friend of a friend and being so you want to be the respectable and interesting woman who he qualifies himself to. You don't put up with him acting like a weak baby and reward him for acting like a hisband and he will act like a husband around you, but do be kind about this. Just say "I don't like to see you like this, why don't you take a few to cool off and we'll talk later". Believe it or not but we really do train people to treat us certain ways. And you want to be treated with respect and not like a doormat.

I have so much more to teach you DG stick around and we'll cover how to plant seeds of doubt over the next few weeks.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Wow, you should be charging for this!
I am so grateful to you for your advice.
I dont know if i have said this but there has NEVER been any NC between us. We txt during the day and the longest we have gone without seeing him is 2 days!
I am being very careful now though, still doing a mini 180 while trying to be there for him also.
He just txt me from work to ask about my day. I responded casually, and asked if he would like to call in for a cup of tea and see the kids later. He finishes work at 3.15, he said he would be here at 4! im going out with my D at 6 so he can leave by then.
I know from her H she is spending time with him and their kids this evening.
I have little hope at the moment as i said as i really feel they have made a connection, but who knows what the future holds. He wouldnt discuss divorce or seperating bank accounts yesterday, but i need to prepare myself for that eventuality.
Thanks again


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Please be careful, Daisy! It is so hard when you can't really go NC. I have gotten sucked in so many times, only to get punched in the gut eventually. It is so hard if deep in your heart of hearts you are hoping to R. But, really, he is not treating you the way you should be treated. That is the important thing. He may have depression problems or whatever, but he is able to stay lucid enough to work at a job, so he can make a decision on how to treat you. And right now, he's choosing to just string you along. He knows you love him. I'm sure there's no doubt in his mind. That's why he can banter, just ask shallow 'How are you doing?'-type questions. But what is this contact doing to YOU? YOU do NOT deserve to be strung along, settling for banter and tea when you know he is going to go off to be with her afterwards. 

If you'd just met him now, and he treated you the way his now -- flirting (in a way) while you knew he was with someone else, saying he wanted to be friends, but really just being needy, would you be attracted to him? Would you want to be friends? To paraphrase Janet Jackson -- what has he done for YOU lately? Real friendship -- any relationship -- is a two-way street. You're doing all the giving, it seems, Daisy.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

DG,
It's time to pull back on the reins a little and become less available for no appearant reason. He expects you to be available to him whenever he calls so now you will need to change his expectation and impress him by ignoring him. Try refusing any contact except during lunch breaks, if you're working, and not during any show or activity you're in the middle of. You won't apologize for any of this just say you were busy and leave it at that. Let him wonder about you a little.

The goal of your 180 in the end will be to become someone so much better than before that he regrets ever leaving, and if reconciled fears you will cheat on him with someone better. At that point you'll have three or four male friends secretely wanting to take his place and giving him some stiff competition whenever you go out with the girls.

Don't let his affair break you, instead take it as a personal challenge and kick your own @$$ into becoming everything he fell in love with her for. That means we've got to get you psychically fit, mentally conditioned, teach you everything I can about the psychology of attraction and dating, and have you pursue some of the hobbies that he found interesting in you in the first place. I'm thinking at home workouts like p90x along with intermittent fasting, two books to read through every month, martial arts or dance classes, and regular platonic date nights with a new guy every week. Don't let yourself get attached to one guy or you'll blow your chances at a true reconciliation and stopping divorce. And don't worry about the nagging little questions that come along or what to do or say, we'e got you covered for that.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Nsweet
I've PMd you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

angelpixie said:


> Please be careful, Daisy! It is so hard when you can't really go NC. I have gotten sucked in so many times, only to get punched in the gut eventually. It is so hard if deep in your heart of hearts you are hoping to R. But, really, he is not treating you the way you should be treated. That is the important thing. He may have depression problems or whatever, but he is able to stay lucid enough to work at a job, so he can make a decision on how to treat you. And right now, he's choosing to just string you along. He knows you love him. I'm sure there's no doubt in his mind. That's why he can banter, just ask shallow 'How are you doing?'-type questions. But what is this contact doing to YOU? YOU do NOT deserve to be strung along, settling for banter and tea when you know he is going to go off to be with her afterwards.
> 
> If you'd just met him now, and he treated you the way his now -- flirting (in a way) while you knew he was with someone else, saying he wanted to be friends, but really just being needy, would you be attracted to him? Would you want to be friends? To paraphrase Janet Jackson -- what has he done for YOU lately? Real friendship -- any relationship -- is a two-way street. You're doing all the giving, it seems, Daisy.


Your words really made me think last night and they made a lot of sense.
I am really going to try and distance myself now.
I'm feeling ok. A little down but my anxiety has returned. My stomach is in knots all the time. If I could just get rid of that I think I'd be ok
Xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Your words really made me think last night and they made a lot of sense.
> I am really going to try and distance myself now.
> I'm feeling ok. A little down but my anxiety has returned. My stomach is in knots all the time. If I could just get rid of that I think I'd be ok
> Xx
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Daisy Actually being nice and available for him is the worse thing you can do. He will not pick you, why should he. 

He has every thing he needs two woman taking care of him and he has the freedom to decide which will fulfill his needs from moment to moment. 

It is a common enough scenario. Women think that if they are nice to a man and give him every thing he wants, that he will chose them. Why should he do anything but soak up all of the attention from two women.

He is getting all of his needs met from two women. Their self esteem and self respect is so low that they service him and expect nothing back.

You don't have a friendship with your husband and it is not love. He is using you and your kind giving nature. 

You will spend years in this limbo working hard to get him back. Then you will do what you should have done at first realize you are being made a fool of and kick him to the curb.

Let hom get all of his needs met by the OW. Let him work for the love of a woman. Stop allowing yourself top be used.

It is undignified and will make you bitter. Get him out of your life. He has bonded with this other woman. He may love you but not enough. Is that what you want. To be used to stabilize his relationship with the OW.

Grab your dignity and get him out of your life. Find a man who wants to be with you 100%. Don't wait 10 years when you ate two beaten down to look for a man who cherishes you. 

Your husband does not. He finds you useful now he does not have to work to get what you are giving so why should he stop taking.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

The OWH has gone nuts! Hes told everyone who works with them and plastered it all over facebook!
My H is bloody fuming with him!!
I just wonder though if this will push them closer together?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I have accepted my marriage is over. The lies and deciet are just to much now.
he says he loves her, but when i spoke to him about divorce today he said he didnt want that yet. I know hes just hedging his bets, but its just confusing!
As far as the friendship thing goes, my patience are wearing thin, hes being so bloody nice and "understanding" its doing my head in!!


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Sounds like he's scared of the OWH -- and he's still trying to have it both ways by saying he doesn't want a divorce yet. Why? Just my opinion here, but it sounds like he's got a pretty weak nature, and wants you to make the move to get the D. Maybe in his mind, his reputation doesn't take as much of a hit by 'being in love' (Blech!) wit the OH, but he thinks divorcing you will make everyone look down on him. He wants you to do it for him so he doesn't have to say he filed. Do you think that's a possibility?


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> The OWH has gone nuts! Hes told everyone who works with them and plastered it all over facebook!
> My H is bloody fuming with him!!
> I just wonder though if this will push them closer together?


Wow... wow... wow... 
That's what I got. 
Has the OWH gotten in touch w/ you recently?
How small of a town do you live in? Like everyone knows everyone's business... Will this be a big scandal? 

Where are you w/ this? Keeping your distance? Trying to be supportive? Are you able to remain indifferent if/when he contacts you?


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## smith9800 (Mar 7, 2012)

yeah....it's very painful for a relationship. Same happened to me when i came to about the truth about my gf. I didn't eat for 3 days. I loved her very much but she cheated me. big hug to you........


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I have accepted my marriage is over. The lies and deciet are just to much now.
> he says he loves her, but when i spoke to him about divorce today he said he didnt want that yet. I know hes just hedging his bets, but its just confusing!
> As far as the friendship thing goes, my patience are wearing thin, hes being so bloody nice and "understanding" its doing my head in!!


Why are you confused? Ignore the words and look at his action they speak the truth. He does not love you enough to put you first. His action say that very clearly. You meet some of his needs and if you are willing to give him something for nothing then he takes. 

He say he does not want a divorce. Of course he does not. He is on easy street with two women falling all over themselves to make him happy. He is thinking of himself only and what he can get without working too hard. 

You are slavishly devoted to him and he is devoted to himself. It is sad to watch. You are not confused you are deluding yourself because you want him back so badly. The fact that you would devote yourself to someone who uses you speaks of low self esteem. This is not love this is bondage. 

Hopefully, one day you will wake up. I hope it is not 10 years from now. 

Who cares what he wants are you living for his convenience? You are leaving yourself wide open for hurt and fanacial ruin. Your husband does not care about you he cares about what you give so freely. Thats is not love. He is manipulating you by giving you false hope. Where is your self love and protection? 

Where is your dignity. Those things are in hiding, you need to pull them out and strengthen yourself. He may try to get you back when you leave but that is because he misses you him. 

Ignore his desire not to divorce show him the door. that will knock him out of his fog. He will feel some of the pain of his deception. zone, 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Mamatomany said:


> Wow... wow... wow...
> That's what I got.
> Has the OWH gotten in touch w/ you recently?
> How small of a town do you live in? Like everyone knows everyone's business... Will this be a big scandal?
> ...


Hi M2M
He has been in touch with me most of the week through FB but i have decided to put a stop to it. He has become very vindictive and angry towards his wife and i dont want to be part of the drama. 

He tagged a picture of my H and me on FB yesterday and commented on how my H was a cheater etc etc, fair enough i suppose, but i just managed to get rid of it before my kids saw it and at the end of the day i didnt want the embarasement for myself.

We do live in a small community and i want to protect my children. I dont want them hurt by gossip. I guess some people will have seen it as one of my friends rang me within 5 mins of it being on there. Lucky i have fb alert on my iphone so i could go on there straight away and delete it. The thing that bothers me though is that my H deleted his FB accouint about 2 hours before. He never goes on it anyway but he must have known something was brewing!

My H hasnt been to work the last 2 days. He hardly takes any time off ever. Looks as if his skin isnt that thick after all, and he looks like ****e too!!


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Something has changed inside me
He is downstairs spending time with our daughter and for the first time ever I cannot stand to be in the same room as him so I am upstairs reading.
I feel sad. Sad for what could have been. But I think my love for him is finally dying!
I have nothing left to say to him.
I just have to think of the children though and do what is required to make sure they hurt no more.
So I sit in my room reading.
He will be gone in 2 hours and for the first time in 18 years I am glad that he will not be in my bed tonight!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Sounds like you are in a good place tonight. Enjoy your bed... sleep in the middle and sprawl out 

Man this roller coaster ride sucks! Too many twists/turns/ups and downs.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

M2M
I kind of feel at peace. I know I've done everything possibly to save my marriage but now it's out of my hands.
No sprawling for me. My daughter has replaced him in my bed. A little comfort for us both!

How are you doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stryker (Feb 3, 2012)

The Events ......are happening....


---Stay Cool...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> My H hasnt been to work the last 2 days. He hardly takes any time off ever. Looks as if his skin isnt that thick after all, and he looks like ****e too!!



Hate to say it, but I hope the OWH tracks down kicks your husband's a*s. Might make him think twice about what he's doing.

daisygirl 41,

I can't believe I missed this thread. I want to say I admire your bravery and selflessness through this ordeal. Watching someone you love destroy their life and the lives of everyone around them through their selfishness is heartbreaking and agonizing. I'm going through this too.

I agree with the others that you need to back away from your husband for a while. He is in the middle of an extremely self destructive fog, and he will drag you down with him if you let him. Your priority should be to yourself and your children's well-being. Your husband is in the midst of a self-induced psychosis; there is no reasoning with him. Just back off and let this sad event run its course.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

LOL 
A few of mine sleep with me too! My IC is trying to get me to move them out, but for now they stay!!

I understand her reasoning but I have always welcomed the kids to sleep w/ me if they 'needed' me. They need me more than ever now and it has helped (bedwetting and nightmares/terrors are as well :::knock on wood::: has lessened).


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Trouble is Bandit the OWH is a jerk. He hides behind a computer to do his dirty work. He hadn't got the balls to confront my H. He has now started slagging off his wife on FB. What an idiot!
I have no bad feeling towards my H. Just sadness and regret. 
He knows he's making a mistake but that is his journey. 
I have my own journey to take now
Let's hope it leads me to a nice sunny place
X


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Something has changed inside me
> He is downstairs spending time with our daughter and for the first time ever I cannot stand to be in the same room as him so I am upstairs reading.
> I feel sad. Sad for what could have been. But I think my love for him is finally dying!
> I have nothing left to say to him.
> ...


Would it be better if he took the kids out of the house for his time with them. He left for a new life then he should face the realities of that choice. He cannot enjoy the comforts of home and carry on an affair. 

Let him feel the consequences of his choice. You and your kids do. He feels none of the pain. He gets the OW and the comforts of home and your support whenever he wants. 

He has caused needless heartache and pain to a kind and loving wife and 3 innocent children. He has destroyed the lives of OWH and their children. Moreover, he did this at the children's school. 

I is enough that he destroyed his marriage but to bring his behavior into his own children's school is terrible. He apparently loves this woman much more than he loves his kids. 

If he was unhappy in the marriage he could have asked for a divorce. 

Think about that when you fall back into missing him. The good and loving man is gone forever. That man you lobed. In his place is this man. 

Would you or any woman with self respect want a relationship with this man who has done these despicable things? 

He is a very poor father to bring cheating into his kids school. He is a very selfish man to deceive and humiliate his wife. He does not sound lovable as a man except to a woman who is herself immoral.


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## Stryker (Feb 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Trouble is Bandit the OWH is a jerk. He hides behind a computer to do his dirty work. He hadn't got the balls to confront my H. He has now started slagging off his wife on FB. What an idiot!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bandit, dont you see the fire in her when you mentioned him to be kicked by the OWH and her love for hubby..?  ...

this lioness will get her timid strayed "lion" back asap,I think!..


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Catherine
It wasn't his own kids school. He is a teacher and so is she but they work at a school in the next town.
My daughter doesn't want to go to his place yet. I asked her yesterday if she wanted to sleep at daddy's but she almost burst into tears. It will happen soon but not yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh thank goodness.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

How can any man get on his motorbike and leave his wife and kids to see his girlfriend.
He couldn't even look at me!
I wonder if they'll have a pleasant afternoon. Carefree and happy?
Hmmmm !!
I'm off out. To see peoPle who really care about me!
X


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

Because he does not want you...STOP letting him in YOUR house... LEARN how to COPARENT. He eating his cake while you watch in misery...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

justwhy said:


> Because he does not want you...STOP letting him in YOUR house... LEARN how to COPARENT. He eating his cake while you watch in misery...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't. It's OUR house and my children come first. My daughter isn't ready to spend time at his place yet so as long as that is the case he can come here.
He still sleeps at my home 3 nights a week for me to work.
In my bed, with my daughter!
Wonder how long the OW will put up with that?!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Mine doesn't look at me - I think it's pure guilt that keeps him from eye contact.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

My copy of The Divorce Remedy just arrived from Amazon.
Don't know I can even be bothered to take it out of the package!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> My copy of The Divorce Remedy just arrived from Amazon.
> Don't know I can even be bothered to take it out of the package!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was reading my "How to help children cope w/ Divorce" but got Divorce Remedy and decided to read it for a while... it can't hurt... only help either this relationship or next (hopefully this one!)!


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

"Divorce Remedy" and "How to stop your divorce or lover's rejection" - Homer MacDonald, are my two favorite books out of the dozen or so I've read. DR is great for explaining how divorce really effects both people and the other helps you cope with an almost zen mindset when your spouse is trying to get under your skin. I have to say without the second one my wife would have filed her restraining order and we wouldn't be talking but all of that changed by me listening to her and agreeing with her feelings.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

The OWH is being a compete jerk. Slating her on FB, emailing me. My H is really pizsed off about it and angry with him !!! He blames him for a lot of my upset! (I know crazy eh?)
I was just wondering what effects the OWH behaviour will have on THEIR relationship ( my H and OW). Won't his behaviour just push them closer together and help to justify her reasons for having an affair?
Should I even care?
DG
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stryker (Feb 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> The OWH is being a compete jerk. Slating her on FB, emailing me. My H is really pizsed off about it and angry with him !!! He blames him for a lot of my upset! (I know crazy eh?)
> I was just wondering what effects the OWH behaviour will have on THEIR relationship ( my H and OW). Won't his behaviour just push them closer together and help to justify her reasons for having an affair?
> Should I even care?
> DG
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The Events....Lady...Be of Good Courage...and I think Your Love for your Hubby is Glorious...even among all this shackles...Hang On with Discretion, Hope and Courage..


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I just feel like I've been replaced
When he starts doing things with her and her kids, like we used to do, will he miss us? 
Will he be feeling guilty because he should be with HIS children?
After 18 years am I that replaceable? 
Maybe im not. I've been a bloody good wife to him and I know that, but maybe, just maybe HE is the one that can be replaced!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> HE is the one that can be replaced!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


its very hard to get there and takes a while but this is where you need to be.

things will get better, ive been there too.

just as you and i can be replaced, so can they in time.

good luck to you daisygirl


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

How do you deal with your children meeting the OW?
He has sworn to me that this won't happen any time soon.
And this is the only point I have been firm on. She is not to see my D and he is not to go anywhere where me and our D might be hanging out.

I can't bare the thought of my daughter spending time with her!
Am I jumping the gun a bit?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> How do you deal with your children meeting the OW?
> He has sworn to me that this won't happen any time soon.
> I can't bare the thought of my daughter spending time with her!
> Am I jumping the gun a bit?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this is one part you have to deal with that i didnt.

my youngest was 20 when we separated, though i found out later that the children had previously met a 'friend' of hers when they were smaller.

that would be something that would be hard too. just remember, your children are YOUR children, you wont be replaced by THEM.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

It's strange my oldest D and I have talked about this ... I am betting that your kids will know that this new woman broke up their family. They won't like her especially if they meets her anytime soon (months). They may not ever like her until they see you happy again (if then). 

I don't think you have been replaced (he still thinks he has you) as well as her.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Mamatomany said:


> It's strange my oldest D and I have talked about this ... I am betting that your kids will know that this new woman broke up their family. They won't like her especially if they meets her anytime soon (months). They may not ever like her until they see you happy again (if then).
> 
> I don't think you have been replaced (he still thinks he has you) as well as her.


My children know about her. I told them in a non emotional way that daddy has got a girlfriend and that is why he doesn't live at home anymore. My boys are 15 and 17. The oldest one isnt happy at all with him. He hadn't wanted to spend any time with him since I told him(just last week). I told my D10 in a simpler way but she understands.

He does still think he has me M2M but today it starts. He is spending his first Sunday alone ( I know he's not with OW) I just had to ring him to ask him something about my car and he offered to come and take care of it for me. I replied no Thankyou, I can take care of it'! 
Sunday evenings were always family time in our house, a nice tea, doing homework, getting things ready for the week and relaxing together! Not to tonight. He is alone. 
I wonder if reality is finally sinking in?
Oh well, he's not having both of us Anymore
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> My children know about her. I told them in a non emotional way that daddy has got a girlfriend and that is why he doesn't live at home anymore. My boys are 15 and 17. The oldest one isnt happy at all with him. He hadn't wanted to spend any time with him since I told him(just last week). I told my D10 in a simpler way but she understands.
> 
> He does still think he has me M2M but today it starts. He is spending his first Sunday alone ( I know he's not with OW) I just had to ring him to ask him something about my car and he offered to come and take care of it for me. I replied no Thankyou, I can take care of it'!
> Sunday evenings were always family time in our house, a nice tea, doing homework, getting things ready for the week and relaxing together! Not to tonight. He is alone.
> ...



Good for you! 
I hope you enjoyed today. You have taken back your power/control and he will learn!!

I don't want my kids to end up w/ bad feelings about their dad (esp if he comes home) but I do appreciate my older kids being so put off w/ his behavior. I really, really do! I keep that in mind w/ everything I do now. I want(need) their support to help me through it. Each of my 3 older ones are handling their anger w/ their father and my oldest son is the one that just will not tolerate him.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

I didn't know your boys were 15/17 are they both at home in the evening/night? If so, are you able to trust them to take care of things when you are at home so H doesn't have to sleep over? Or maybe able to leave after they are asleep? Or if mornings (getting them up to go to school) is hard maybe just have him have a role there by calling/coming over.


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I can't. It's OUR house and my children come first. My daughter isn't ready to spend time at his place yet so as long as that is the case he can come here.
> He still sleeps at my home 3 nights a week for me to work.
> In my bed, with my daughter!
> Wonder how long the OW will put up with that?!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How old is your D? What kind of example are you as Woman,are you teaching her? You as a Mother are teaching your kids that an open marriage is OK. Your daughter will judge you for being weak as she gets old. Stop saying your kids are first because you would not be putting your emotion on them. Now they have deal with your emotion & the situation. You are no better than your husband.

As far as the OW she is ok with him splitting time because she always did.. But at the end of the day They love each other. The OWH is not a doormat, he going to push them together. Don't worry your H will always leave you some crumbles from the cake he eating..


I hope I'm wrong.. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm not sure yet about the work situation. The boys would be fine but my daughter is only 10 and I don't want to disrupt her routine in that way just yet. She's had enough to cope with. He stay over mon, tues and thurs. so it's not so bad. They can spend some quality time together. I don't work weekends or school holidays. We have a 2 week break from school coming up doin. It'll be the first one where we won't be doing family stuff together. It's going to be tough but ive already Planned to go and visit my sister for a few days on my own so I can have a break.
We used to do lots of fun stuff in the hols. I'm going to have to plan it to make sure our I've got things planned with the kids.

He just txt me to ask if he could see D later. I agreed as I have said I won't ever stop him seeing them. It will be hard but my D comes first.
She still doesn't want to visit him at his place!
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

justwhy said:


> How old is your D? What kind of example are you as Woman,are you teaching her? You as a Mother are teaching your kids that an open marriage is OK. Your daughter will judge you for being weak as she gets old. Stop saying your kids are first because you would not be putting your emotion on them. Now they have deal with your emotion & the situation. You are no better than your husband.
> 
> As far as the OW she is ok with him splitting time because she always did.. But at the end of the day They love each other. The OWH is not a doormat, he going to push them together. Don't worry your H will always leave you some crumbles from the cake he eating..
> 
> ...


My daughter is 10. 
I'm dealing with this the best way I can. 
He knows I am done
I know he's been cake eating
But now it's stopping. I wasn't ready to let go. But now I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Oh and I AM better than my H
I think that was uncalled for to be honest
But you're entitled to you opinion
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Daisy,

Like bandit I can't believe I missed this thread. You are very strong and handling this as well as I've ever seen.

Two things you should realize.

The OWH is handling things the way he feels he should. He has been betrayed as well and whatever he want to do as a result is his concern. You do not and should not get involved. What he is doing will not push them together any more than they already are. Affairs are like c0ckroaches. They hate the light. Your H and the OW deserve everything they get as a result.

You should not even entertain the idea of R unless and until your husband quits his job. I know you have said you realize your marriage is over but "what ifs" are going to pop up from time to time. Until your husband quits his job and completely divests himself from the OW he will never be yours again nor should you want him back. Also, keep in mind that odds are their relationship will not last. After all they can't trust each other...they're both cheaters.

Continue to concentrate on yourself and your children. Your husband is very confused and on a road to nowhere. Don't let him drag you and your kids there with him. You are stronger than you know. I am praying for you and your children.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Can he visit D at a neutral location like a park or something? I understand why you don't want to force her to spend time w/ OW, but that doesn't mean that's your only choice besides having him come over to the house. 

Some communities have neutral drop-off or meeting centers just so separated or divorced parents don't have to see each other. Does your town have anything like that? The centers are supervised like daycare centers, and have very good security so that they monitor who the kids arrive and leave with. That may be an alternative for visitation.

As for him still living at home -- I just don't see how it can work for you when he's still in his relationship with OW. He's not truly dealing with what he has wrought, so to speak. You are juggling kids' school schedules, work, vacation, etc. It doesn't sound like he's contributing anything to the household by disruption. 

Keep being strong, Daisy! :flowerkitty:


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thanks all for your support.
I've been doing ok and accepting that H now loves another.
I'm in work this evening though and feel as anxious as anything. Been pulling back but now feel like I've got a million questions I want to ask him about the future:
Is he moving in with her?
What about the finances?
What about school holidays?
We always did so much together as a family during holiday time and the thought that he might now be starting to do things with her and her kids is really a tough one. He spent all of the Xmas period and feb hols with me and the kids. Which is very puzzling to me? He also spent his birthday and the evening with me. Why didn't he spend it with her?
But I know I've just got to let him get on with it now.
I went to see my IC today. Always stirs up a lot of questions and emotions!
I woke up feeling strong. What happened?
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

DG,

If yours is anything like mine, he didnt want to answer any of those type of questions would actually get snappy with me when i asked them. I hope he is better with you about that. I actually printed out one of my replies to my thread that i posted when i was feeling strong and angry. It has helped me to reread it when i felt down or weak, maybe that would work for you? Good luck Daisy-


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

Do you blame the OW? 
Stop worrying about her, she's going through her own situation. I believe your H like the family things 

The OW always shared him so sharing him with you now will not both her until she gets over her husband.

How often do they see each other beside work?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

When the A went underground he wouldn't answer any questions about anything. He never did. And all I got was trickle truth.
Now it is out in the open he has become a lot better. He had now said I can ask him anything or tell him anything and he will answer me and listen. No more lies, no more secrets, those were his words!
I wonder if he has been surprised by my reaction to the A coming out? I haven't regected him or tried to talk him round. 
My H has very low self esteem due to childhood issues and a father who never made him feel good enough. Although he has hurt me I won't make him feel like that. He's carrying enough guilt and shame himself!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I have to listen to my ICs advice
Just take it a dAy at a time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

daisygirl 41;
My H has very low self esteem due to childhood issues and a father who never made him feel good enough. Although he has hurt me I won't make him feel like that. He's carrying enough guilt and shame himself!
[size=1 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


What about your self esteem? What happen to you as a child that created your low self esteem?

Why do you like to make excuses for him?:scratchhead:


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

justwhy said:


> Do you blame the OW?
> Stop worrying about her, she's going through her own situation. I believe your H like the family things
> 
> The OW always shared him so sharing him with you now will not both her until she gets over her husband.
> ...


No I blame them both. They both should have stopped it before it started.
As far as I am aware he hardly ever saw her out of work before the A came out.
He still spent all his free time with me and the kids.
He only saw her for 2 hours this past weekend!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

justwhy said:


> What about your self esteem? What happen to you as a child that created your low self esteem?
> 
> Why do you like to make excuses for him?:scratchhead:


Well that's another story!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Feeling very anxious this morning, emotional too. I miss him. My H and my best friend.
Do I want him back? At this particular time, no I don't, because there has been to many lies, and well he loves someone else.
I know I don't have to explain my actions and feelings to anyone but I just wanted to put a perspective on things really.
My H was a loving, loyal and devoted H and father for 17 years. He put me and the children before everything. He is a wonderful and loving father. He used to adore me. He never raised his voice at me and he made me feel special. And that is why I am so confused about everything at the moment. 
I know I don't have to make any hasty decisions and I can only do what is best for me and the children.

So the affair is now out in the open. I would have thought he would want to spend all his free time with her. That hasnt happened yet. He saw her for 2 hours on Sat and that was it (apart from work) . I wonder if they are just taking things slow (she has kids too) or if he's just Playing us both. I don't know.

My car needed doing something to it on Sun and I rang him for advice. Straight away he offered to come and take care of it for me but I declined, he sounded really put out.
He Txts me during the day to see how im doing and in the evening while I'm in work he Txts me about the kids and this n that!
Boy am I confused!

I know I've got to just let him get on with his car crash and think about myself and I am trying. But I'm sure you can all appreciate how difficult it is when all this is going on.

Yes I know he says he loves her and I'm not trying to get him back anymore but that doesn't stop me wondering about what the hell is going on with him!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cabbage65 (Feb 14, 2012)

exactly justwhy! my stbx had a father who completely ignored him and i made excuses for him for a long time for 'the way he is'...but there comes a time you say we are adults and responsible for how we treat others no matter what we grew up with!!


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

justwhy said:


> What about your self esteem? What happen to you as a child that created your low self esteem?
> 
> Why do you like to make excuses for him?:scratchhead:


And also because I think he's going through MLC!
He has the classic signs.
He was in the marines when we met. He was very fit and healthy. He has now had 2 operations on his back and knees. He used to live to surf, he can't do it anymore, he had tried over the years but his body just can't hack it.
He left the marines soon after we met. Big mistake! He has always regretted it. He loved it. And often says that's why he has never made any friends since leaving because the companionship he had in the military is unlike civvy friendship. This years he would have been eligible for retirement. A big lump some and a new start. We talked about this the other day and his regrets about that.
He is reevaluating everything at the moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

Do you justify this to your kids that it ok for daddy to be in a open marriage because he's going through a MLC? 

I can't imagine my D coming to me with this so when your D go through this be prepared to listen to all the excuses about about her husband because she learned it from you. 

You need a hobby..


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I really don't know how to respond to that,
Apart to say.. I've got Plenty of hobbies Thankyou!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

As teachers they probably don't see much of each other during the day either. It's a pretty isolated job unless they have conference times the same or lunch. 

He may 'love' her now or be infatuated now... it won't last. 

I had my adult kids read the midlife crisis for dummy link below and they totally see that their father is following the directions and doing the MLC well.


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I really don't know how to respond to that,
> Apart to say.. I've got Plenty of hobbies Thankyou!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I not trying to get you upset.. My mother was/ still is like you, to this day. My father cheats when he wants and my mother accept him back. Growing up, I would hear her tell people she take him back for for the *KIDS* with is BS it was selfishness. I don't respect my mother for accepting it. I'm closer to my dad for some reason. To me a mother is a daughter role model first. How she treats a man, how she loving toward a man, and how a man treat her. You know your situation so if think it going in best decision for your family, keep doing what you going. 

To me it's a sickness that need to be broken.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

justwhy said:


> I not trying to get you upset.. My mother was/ still is like you, to this day. My father cheats when he wants and my mother accept him back. Growing up, I would hear her tell people she take him back for for the *KIDS* with is BS it was selfishness. I don't respect my mother for accepting it. I'm closer to my dad for some reason. To me a mother is a daughter role model first. How she treats a man, how she loving toward a man, and how a man treat her. You know your situation so if think it going in best decision for your family, keep doing what you going.
> 
> To me it's a sickness that need to be broken.


I understand what you are saying, I took my husband back last time because, I said it would be better for our daughter.
I was lying to myself. I wasn't ready to be alone. I wasn't ready to let go of the hope my marriage could be saved. That I could put it behind me and make it right. 
All the time saying it was for her sake, for her living with both her parents in a stable family home. 
I was wrong & I was miserable and my daughter was caught in the middle of a awful oppressive atmosphere. 
I feel that I would be doing her no favors to bring her up thinking it was ok for daddy to have a girlfriend and to accept that kind of behavior for herself, I would not stand by and let a man treat her like that when she is older, I could not look her in the eye when she was older and tell her it was for her, I dont think she'd thank me for it. 


But I am not judging, you do what you need to do to get by, you won't get it right every time. But you will eventually get what you need xxx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

My H has cheated once in 18 years. So what? I just throw in the towel without even trying to fix it?
Well I hope your all pleased to know that I can't even sit in the same room as him anymore and my love for him IS fading so I guess I won't be subjecting my darling daughter to my 'open martiage' for much longer!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> My H has cheated once in 18 years. So what? I just throw in the towel without even trying to fix it?
> Well I hope your all pleased to know that I can't even sit in the same room as him anymore and my love for him IS fading so I guess I won't be subjecting my darling daughter to my 'open martiage' for much longer!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Daisy please don't think I was judging.. I know how you feel right now. I really do. Everybody's situation is unique and so personal as are the choices that you make. Only you can know what is right for you. I hope with all my heart you can find a way through this with the outcome that you want. I tried, so many times to make it work but for me the time has come to give up. I wouldn't want anyone to go through what you are going through now, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I hope your story is one with a happier ending than mine xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> My H has cheated once in 18 years. So what? I just throw in the towel without even trying to fix it?
> Well I hope your all pleased to know that I can't even sit in the same room as him anymore and my love for him IS fading so I guess I won't be subjecting my darling daughter to my 'open martiage' for much longer!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad you are feeling strong today. I don't know if my H is having an EA (don't think he is having a PA) but I don't know... I think after 18 yrs or in my case 27 yrs and going through a MLC if he comes back and works on the marriage that would be best for my kids and myself. What it would show is my understanding of his crisis and that I know he is human and I am able to forgive him as long as he was willing to make it up to me by being a better H/man than he has been in the last 2 yrs and showing me that he loves me more than anything and really working on our marriage together. I don't think it's weak. I think it takes courage to work through something so horrible. Now I would only be able to do this once esp because of the way were were 'abandoned.' Love is a choice. I choose love (at this moment) I wish he would.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Sorry everyone but the suggestion that I would allow my daughter to think that being in an open marriage was ok really hit a nerve. I would never let her think it's ok. But what is ok is fighting for a marriage when you know that all is not lost, and that yes, it is ok to forgive someone and not feel hate and anger towards them. He is her father, yes he has done wrong, and one day she will know the truth, but with my help there will be Forgivness and healing. I hate what he has done to our family but I don't hate him!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Daisy you sound angry that people are advising you that your husband is using you for emotional support and the OW for new boothie. 

You don't have to agree. If you feel that you want to support your husband be cause he is a great guy, I think you should go with your feelings. 

Some of the people posting have been cranked around and used by cheaters so they are trying to warn you. 

However, if your sympathy for him eclipses everything including you emotional welfare then keep making a comfy abode for him when he feels the need. 


Keep sleeping in the same bed too that should be a comfort to him.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602;628188
You don't have to agree. If you feel that you want to support your husband be cause he is a great guy said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> Absolutely x I wouldn't want anyone to feel the pain I have felt. I hope your relationship can be salvaged and you get the happy ending that has eluded me x


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I dont sleep in the same bed as him.

Im not angry at people who are trying to help me.
The truth hurts yknow?
I aprecaiate everyones input, i really do.
Im just trying to do my best.
My world is upside down and i just want the pain and the hurt to stop
x


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## dontpanic (Feb 23, 2012)

DG, I don't think that you are "accepting him bacK" or in an "open marraige". What you are doing is maintaining the status quo of him babysitting your D while you work nights which is your financial reality. It sounds like you can't afford other options financially.

However, there are still boundaries that can be set. When my H moved out, he took the "bare minimum" with him because he "didn't want to be burdened by stuff" (pure MLC behavior - he said he wants to "simplify his life" and "spread his wings like a butterfly from a cocoon" - makes me want to barf, but that is just my sour grapes). He didn't want photos of us together or any of his electronics or a/v equipment and anyway he went to a tiny 1 BR apt.

I insisted that he move all of his "stuff" into boxes in the attic so that I don't have to have memories of him everywhere. Of course we still have the furniture that we picked out together - you can't get rid of all traces. But I insisted that he take down the gifts that I bought him that he was leaving behind.

When he has to sleep over for practical reasons he sleeps in the Guest Room in a narrow twin bed. The only "stuff" I let him leave is a toothbrush and his earplugs. He knows that before I get back, the bed linen has to be stripped and any traces of him have to be gone.

I also told him he must txt me before entering our home and upon lvg. I need to be aware of when and why he is in the house.

A great book that I read by Rebuilding by Dr Bruce Fisher (3rd ed, 2000). Dr Fisher himself was married then divorced then remarried. (Unfortunately he died in 1998.) You can read reviews at Amazon - Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends, 3rd Edition (Rebuilding Books; For Divorce and Beyond): Bruce Fisher, Robert Alberti, Virginia M. Satir: 9781886230170: Amazon.com: Books. I was able to get a used copy for about $4 shipped. I bought copies for my IC, MC, hub, and a few extra just in case.

Setting up boundaries to protect yourself emotionally is not "giving up on R" or "giving up on 17 yrs". It is acknowledging that your WH breached a trust and you need to have your eyes open so he doesn't continue to use you and abandon you. That is why I think the 180 is helpful.

I also can't do a "hard 180". It is very hard when you still have to see each other for practical reasons such as household or family or other obligations. With the kids, a "hard 180" would probably be impossible for you.

I get that you don't want to disrupt your daughter's life, but you've got to realize that if he gets joint custody, she will end up being a yo-yo bouncing from his place to yours. You're not really going to allow your divorced husband to sleep over so you can keep your job.

Start thinking about how you would keep this job if you were a single mom. Would you get a babysitter? Switch to a different shift? etc. I know you aren't ready to make this change now, but you will need to start thinking this way.

Maybe when he comes over to sleep, you can make a "small step". No sleeping in the marital bedroom. He doesn't live there anymore. He is choosing to pursue a relationship with someone else. He gave up his right to sleep in that bed. Do you have a guest bedroom? Buy a fold-up bed? Sleep-away sofa? 

Good luck!!! ((hugs)) Praying for you and your hub.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou for your positive input.
I'll take a look at the suggested book.
I have been looking into the sleeping arrangement and weighing up options. Haven't made any decisions yet. 
Dontpanic - how long has your H been in MLC? How's it going for you guys? Is there an OW involved?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thankyou for your positive input.
> I'll take a look at the suggested book.
> I have been looking into the sleeping arrangement and weighing up options. Haven't made any decisions yet.
> Dontpanic - how long has your H been in MLC? How's it going for you guys? Is there an OW involved?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



DontPanic, How long were you all married?

Daisy, I know I asked already, but when my oldest was 17 she would be responsible for her bro/sister if H and I were out over night. There is almost a 6 yr spread between my oldest and the youngest (at the time - we have added many since). I know it's a lot to ask, but children of divorce do pick up more around the house and have to grow up faster than in intact families. Unless your son's aren't mature enough or they don't get along... if nothing else play with the idea. Maybe even suggest that you are thinking about it to H so he knows that you are unhappy with current status quo and are looking for other solutions.


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## dontpanic (Feb 23, 2012)

No OW. I asked him if he's gay. he says he's not. I ask him how he fulfills his sexual needs. He says he helps himself.

Hub has always been more of an introvert and me the extrovert. He has a cr*ppy relationship with his over-anxious, panicky, worried Mom (never professionally treated) who blamed a lot of her unhappiness on her young "difficult" son. He also has a lot of shame and guilt from the past and has trouble expressing emotions.

So no OW that I know of and since we are religious we have agreed not to see any "potential romantic interests" even casually (e.g. No going out for "coffee" with "friend") for the first 6 months of separation.

I trace the MLC to when he shared it with me in Dec 2009. I have an acute illness that almost killed me (I was on a ventilator and in hospital for 3 wks) in Nov 2006. At that time I was put on very high doses of prednisone (drug that saved my life with evil side effects), had to go on disability from work, and had been taken off all my anti-depressant meds due to fear of allergic reactions. In short, I was a physical and emotional mess for a long time. (More of my backstory at: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/anxiet...s/41702-what-if-i-cant-learn-love-myself.html).

So after years of blaming me and my depression for our marriage ups and downs and his reluctance to start a family, he finally "woke up" to the fact that perhaps he was unhappy become of his own unresolved issues. Wow, how cld it still be all my wife's fault is she's barely functioning!

It took me until Summer 2009 to be stable again weight-wise, mood-wise, completely off the prednisone, back from cheating death and a lot stronger for it. Wanted to revisit having kids (after all, I was almost 36 at that time). We agreed to see MC in Dec 2009. He asked, why are you here? I said because we want to resolve our issues around having kids. Hub gave me a typed letter he had written describing why he was here: how he still cared about me but wasn't sure if we could remain together. Expressing doubts about himself, the relationship, etc. Felt our relationship lacked intimacy, etc. Obviously he had been working up to this for some time in his IC, but I had no clue. 

He had started his weight-loss program (he was 330 lbs and eventually lost 165 lbs) in May 2009 so maybe MLC started then? All I know is the good news was he was working with IC to resolve his issues and take care of himself (lose weight, promoted at work). I was so supportive and proud of him. It took a lot of MC to realize that he was doing these things "despite" our marriage. That our relationship dragged him down and that's why he withdrew emotionally.

In Feb 2011 he told me that he was no longer attracted to me sexually. That he hadn't been for a long time but didn't want to hurt my feelings. That sent me into quite a lovely binge-eating, massive depression spree. I should probably thank him, bec in my epiphany of April 2011 I realized that although I had toyed with the idea since I was a teen, I didn't have it in me to actually commit suicide.

So in Sept 2011 I told him to move out. We were less than roommates. No sex since I don't even know (maybe Jan2011...?) No emotional support from him. Parallel lives. No one knew what I was going through so I couldn't get support from friends or family. We had a "mask" or "facade" we put on for our friends and community but meanwhile I was in so much pain. He has so much guilt and shame he himself needed me to suggest the separation, but believe me he latched onto the idea right away.

It took him until Dec 2011 to find an apt and make plans to move which he finally did on Dec 28 ( he was going to move a few days earlier but I asked him to stay until the end of Chanukah (Jewish holiday)).

It was a big relief when he was finally out. At least then I could tell friends and family and stop living a double life. We had used Dr Fisher's book (see appendix) to plan a "healing separation" or "working separation" in the months before he left in order to to leave lines of communication open and option of R available to us. The point of a "healing separation" is that since you are both working on your own issues in IC simultaneous to MC, then you cld R or if you D you do so with open communication, honesty, less acrimony.

It is incredibly painful to feel no emotions coming your way from someone who is your lifelong companion, has known you for so long, is your best friend, is your soul mate, has shared life and death with you. To live next to them or see them knowing that they do not feel the same. And you feel they are holding on to you to "hedge their bets" in case this whole "spreading my wings and becoming a butterfly" ain't all its cracked up to be.

But we don't have kids so our situation is different. Also we are religious (Orthodox Jewish) so we live in a community were divorce and extra-marital affairs are certainly "more embarrassing" then in general society. He probably would be sleeping around if he wouldn't feel that G-d would knock him down with a lightening bolt.

Its hard to give you a full picture, but there are many reasons why your story resonates with me. I feel like if my hub and your hub met in a bar, they would totally be able to relate to each other.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I know I've got to let this take it's own course now.
But it's so hard to let him go.
Now the mind movies are starting! 
The thought of him maybe spending time with her and her kids instead of me and mine cuts me like a knife!
I learned today from a colleague of theirs that he has become withdrawn at work. He walks around like a broken man. Is he ashamed or just embarrassed that all his work colleagues now know he is a cheater!
I also learned today that she has changed the way she dresses, the things she likes to the things my husband likes.
I know I know I've just got to let it go.
Goodnight all
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

Daisy.. 
You are doing so well xx I hope you start seeing light at the end of the tunnel soon. It's a long painful path we are on but you are not going through it alone xx take care xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Daisy..
> You are doing so well xx I hope you start seeing light at the end of the tunnel soon. It's a long painful path we are on but you are not going through it alone xx take care xx
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thankyou
But I fear I am going into a depression
The tears have flowed today and I just feel so low
My heart isI breaking. I miss my H so much!
I'm trying to move forward but it's so difficult.
He is not a bad man. He has a gentle sole. For 17 years his heart was mine. 
He looks terrible. Not like someone in the first steps of a new romance. He knows what he is doing is wrong. But he's given in to it. Just given up on us
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

DG,

It will get better- we have all cried those tears ( i cried so much my eyes hurt for 3 days) and understand the pain- It hurt so bad last week when stbxh told me he was back with his who** girlfriend, it hurt as bad as the day he walked out on me and my son, it hurt just like all the other times he threatened to leave in the months before that, it hurt like the night i found the texts between him and the OW. IT ALL HURT. Do i miss him? Yes but im coming to realize that i miss the man he was not the man he is now. Like Justwhy said to me why do you want to be with someone who doesn't want you? Of course he still wants to be around you and hang with the family, you were his rock for a long time just like i was with mine- But thats what his girlfriend is there for now, he choose to break up his family to be with her- he didnt have to do that, its not fair to YOU to have to be his support system though this. Who is your support system? If it was him he wouldnt keep hurting you. 

Take it or leave it but these are the things that i have learned over the past few weeks. ((Hugs))


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I know I've got to let this take it's own course now.
> But it's so hard to let him go.
> Now the mind movies are starting!
> The thought of him maybe spending time with her and her kids instead of me and mine cuts me like a knife!
> ...


I don't know, I would feel happy inside knowing he looks like a broken man ... it would give me hope. She can change for him, he might not like her changes. I would think that if he were 'in love' w/ a new relationship he would look like he was floating on cloud nine not broken man. He may just be infatuated and it will get old. 

Work on you right now. As my 25 yr old tells me put your big girl panties on and go out there and start living don't wait on him. Work on getting your self-esteem up (making eye contact w/ men and offering a smile). What can you do to make yourself feel more attractive and self-confident? A male friend told me that nothing is more attractive than someone who is full of confidence and smiling. Maybe he was just trying to have me come out of my dark hole but I have noticed I feel better and get a lot of attention (unless the kids are with me-lol).


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Ok im trying to get my big girl panties on honestly i am!
Ive had a much better day today, but i fear its because im going to see him later! Isnt that awaful? i havent seen him since Sunday evening and that is the longest i have EVER gone without seeing him! Can you believe that?
Anyway i dont really think im feeling better because im seeing him, i do feel in a slightly better place at the moment.
Im realising that i miss what we had and i am sooooo pissed off that the OW is now getting the affection and attention that i was getting from him (he STILL insists he hasnt slept with her, and i know for sure that he doesnt spend a lot of his spare time with her!) Anyway, where was i , oh yes, im now begining to wonder, if hr did wnd it and want to come back, is there really a furutre for us, after all the hurt and lies? i just dont know if there is. That betrayal will be there everytime i look at him and it will keep on stabbing me in the heart!

Anyway, im in a more posititve place today. going out with friends tommorrow afternoon to watch the rugby ann going to support my friends daughter in the regional finals of a sining competition on Sunday. Should be fun. Theres a convoy of us going!

So just need a bit of advice today, you all know my situation by now, trying to move on, given up hope, but still not readt to completely let go: so H still txts me. He still txts me good morning x and goodnight x and occasionally throughout the day with silly comments or general chit chatq how do i respond to this? Im playing it cool. No realtionship talk, acting "as if" and showing him im moving on, BUT, i dont want to ignore the txts and feel that if we are to remain friends throughout this then there is no harm in it!

The contact isnt giving me any hope of anything, he says he cares about me, i know he does, but do you think i should put an end to this and distance myself even more?

Advice please 
Thanks all


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

So there WAS an OW after all. 

Yuck.


Sorry.

Daisy--separate from him completely. Do not be there for him emotionally, as a supportive system, as a friend, nada. He made his choice when he did this. 

The less contact the better. 

You responding to his every goodmorning/goodnight text while he is having an affair is not helping you. it's setting you back.

SO STOP.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> So there WAS an OW after all.
> 
> Yuck.
> 
> ...


I just rang him and told him he can't come over tonight
Why do I feel like crap now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

Oh Daisy it will be ok- just last night i was so lonely and wanted to call him but i didnt cause i kept reminding myself that he choose her and to break up his family. Do you have anything you can do today to distract yourself? Something fun?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Yes I know I'll be ok thanks unsure 
I just have so many regrets. I wish I could turn the clock back and make my marriage and my man the priority that I should have. Why do I still feel to blame for all of this. I just can't shake it. So so much regret!
Now he is with this woman who, I've been told, is gentle and needy and 'precious' all the things I wasn't. I've always been strong And independent. I obviously didn't 'need' him enought! Well not until now anyway. How ironic eh?
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

being strong and independent will get you through - I'm that person too and I think what he's always wanted is a woman who is dependent on him rather than the other way round

he'll miss it you know (well that's what I keep telling myself!)


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

How do I stop myself from sitting her an obsessing over him. It's making me Ill. How do you move on when you don't want to?
It's so damn difficult to make myself move on and let it go.
I know the time he spends with her has escalated now since he H moved out 3 weeks ago, he's with her now, and it paralyses me.
I feel so broken and hurt.
Sorry for going on and being so miserable but I just feel so alone. 
I'm going out with friends this afternoon. On the outside I will be having a nice time but on the inside there's just nothing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with you DG. The obsession you feel over your wayward spouse is something all of us betrayed spouses go through and it is part of the healing process. You're going to go through some withdraw while you give him the space he needs to live in greener pastures, which is going to be painful for a month or so but then get better. What works best is to distract yourself with other productive hobbies or work to aleviate the depression that follows boredom.

There is nothing you can do at this moment except live your life and let the Narcissistic Love Addict live out this codependent relationship with the other woman. You can rest assured he knows he is giving something up by choosing to be with her over his family, but he is addicted. You know it's not going to last though, since both will have insecurities/trust issues and the real admiration is in the pursuing and not in the comfort of being together. Once both your H and the OW relax a bit, over the next six to eight months of living together, the real problems with each other will emerge. And by that I mean the endless nagging from her and general lazieness from him, lol. No offence but these are things all men and women do at some time.

Still you have to be strong and for the sake of your sanity and your children, and reject his efforts to come to you for emotional support when the OW rejects him or mistreats him. No "there, there. It's going to be ok Honey." but rather "I'm sure it's just a phase... you'll get through it". He will respect you more if you refuse to have sex with him or do anything romantic/out of your way since he will have to work for the trust and comfort again. And I'll let you in on a little secret.... men will gladly have sex but don't appreciate it if they don't have to work for it. 

You have every right to feel hurt about this situation. It sucks to be the faithful spouse who would do anything for the wayward cheater but it says a lot for your character that you aren't cheating out of revenge or taking a baseball bat to his or the OW's car because you feel wronged. Let him make his own choices and come to terms with the better life he gave up for a quick fling. The OW has her own issues but I am sure it's very similar.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou Nsweet.
I've read the book you linked to me. It's was very insightful. I think I need to keeP re reading it now.
Deep down I know my feelings are normal but when your going through it you feel like your the only one who had suffered a hurt do deep. I suppose we all think our relationships are unique and were deeper then anyone else's but I know from being on TAM that isn't true.

I know he's with her now but do you know what hurts even more? That he probably spending time with her kids when he should be here with his. He spends a lot of time with his own kids, I'm not inferring that, but how can they Posdibly think it's ok!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

You know why he would be doing that don't you? To impress her by befriending her kids. Good luck to him in doing that! Children can sense the hidden agendas and generally don't trust others trying to replace their parents. You can bet they're giving him trouble.

Also be aware the he knows he has to work harder to keep her so he will do just about anything to win her over. Where as with you he has a commitment already and a history with children of his own. If he thinks he is losing you he will do just about anything to keep his second choice lined up but will not do anything after once you reassure you're his. This is also why any promises over the phone dissapear into nothing leaving you wondering why he could be so selfish. 

Simply put he wants who he cannot have and that person should be you!


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

It's painful to think that he is choosing her and her kids over his family. It will be his loss. Your kids (as are mine) taking sides and he's losing. Your D may not have 'taken sides' yet but she will. She will know this isn't how she would want to be treated and he would be angry if a man was treating her this way. 

My H like yours is in a weak place and I am sorry that we are going through this. My oldest is having a bad night and is fighting all her urges not to tell him off. I am trying to stay out of it but I do feel a little happy that she is so angry with him.

Well, she sent it but it wasn't as angry as I thought it was going to be... she copied it to me.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi everyone, LONG POST ALERT!!!

So what an emotional weekend.
Saw the OW at last at his place. They were just having coffee, and yes, shes a minger!!! LOL

Anyway after initially telling him he couldnt come over to see the kids friday night, i gave in again, because i had promised he could and the kids were looking forward to spending time with him.

Before he came over we had a long chat about this n that and cleared the air a bit. so he came down and it was ok. Still think im in shock about it all to be honest (still only 3 weeks since Dday and 2 weeks since exposure). Any friday went ok, i kept out of his way and he left at 11pm.

Sat spent all day with her! I felt sick to my stomach all day. I manages to pull myself together and went out with friends but its just not the same is it? They were all with their Hs and i felt sad and in a daze. Got home about 7pm he was at my house (as Arranged) with D. They were making cakes. I just couldnt look at him. He finished the cakes with D then we sat and had a chat. Talked about the past and things that we had both done to hurt each other, talked about the last couple of years and how we both forgot to look after each other etc etc.

I asked him if he wanted a divorce, if thats what he wanted now, to be with her and he just said "its not as easy as that though is it?" " Theres the children to think about and all the rest of it". I agreed with him and agreed that it was going to be difficult. So im wondering, just maybe now that the bubble is bursting if reallity is slowly hitting them both!!

Anyway we talked a lot, he put D to bed then curled up on the chair and fell asleep!! I gave him a poke and told him it was time to go. He asked if he could spen the night and sleep in Ds room. This is the first night he has spent the night with me in the house since Dec!! Maybe i shouldnt have but i said ok and he went off to bed.

Yesterday was mothers day in the UK. I had plans to take 2 of the kids out for the day. He got up about 8.30 and had made sure the kids had done cards for me etc. I took the 2 youngest out for a couple of hours. While i was out he walked the dogs, did some odd jobs, did my food shopping and cleaned the house for me. When I gor back he then went and cleaned my car. In the evening we all had tea together then after that my daughter and i watched a movie, he came and sat in between us on the settee (has done that in months) I just ignored it and acted naturally. 

11pm he went. I thanked him for doing all the nice things for me, we hugged.

I cried when he left. I cried because i love my H dearly but the thought of him being with her is destroying me and i have to let him go. I sent him a txt (again) thanking him for all he had done for me today but that was the last time we would be spending time like that together, that as long as we did those things that i would always have hope in my heart that we could work this out, but now i have to think about myself and try to start healing from al my pain and hurt.

So its done. I feel some relief but a deep and painful sadness and regret. Im going to go dark now, to protect myself to give him the time and space to lead his own life. If he chooses to spend his life with her then htat is his choice, i cant influence that but i just know we could of made this work, if only he had given us the chance.

Thankyou all so much for your input, and i want you to know that i really have taken strength from all of you, even if i have sounded defensive at times, as i said, its difficult to hear the truth sometimes.

Its in Gods hands now
xx


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

ps Daisygirl 41 is 42 next month! Does that mean i have to change my user name!!! lol xx


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Why would you go dark when the 180 is working so well? You refuse to see it but he's acting more and more like your husband instead of a friend or just a father. A friend would pick up after themselves and wouldn't clean the house or your car unless they were getting something in return. A father would bake cakes with his D but not necessarily in your house. I'm guessing it was a Mothers Day cake. But cleaning the house and car, begging to sleep over so he can be near you, baking cakes for you, making cards instead of tossing a cheap store bought one in the mail, speaking to you from the heart and opening up. These are generally things "loving husbands" do for their wives. Remember he could have spent that day with her and her kids but he didn't, he chose you.

To be honest I'm dissapointed that you keep telling him how you accept that your old relationship is over, and then getting hurt when he doesn't do every little thing that you've been expecting to reconcile. You've got to see the forest for the trees! Yes, he is with her but he has made it very clear that he doesn't want to lose your friendship or his relationship with your kids. Doesn't it stand out as a good sign to you that he isn't sure about a divorce yet? If I were you I would still do the 180 but still have regular family get togethers and "act as if" you are mature enough to enjoy they friendship without getting needy for a relationship. 

Let the two of you grow closer over time and the OW be the one to freakout when he doesn't want to spend time with her. As I told you, sooner or later she's going to get hurt that he's spending time with you and push him away with her control and jealousy issues. That is, if her H doesn't get her away from your H first.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I guess I was putting a stop to it before he does. I'm so afraid of getting hurt more.
I thought it would be a good idea to put some more distance between us to see if he would miss me!
That's the advice they give on the CWI forum!
I thought I was supposed to stop the cake eating!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

he's the one cake eating! he's got two women dangling on a string and wanting him


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

That's what I meant! Lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

I have a confession....I had to google "minger". I had no idea what that meant. 

You crazy Brits and your slang. 

Good for you, Daisy. He is cake-eating. Don't let him do that to you. You deserve better. He is just trying to alleviate his guilt and make himself feel better. You should give him his space and let him see what it is like to really live without your love and friendship. He needs to figure out what he REALLY wants.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Oh...and my husband's girlfriend is a minger too. (she is not very attractive at all).


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

when someone's a REAL minger you say they 'ming to the highest mong'


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Minger is a good word!!
My friend saw the ow in the gym earlier. First time she's seen her. She txt me it was so funny she couldn't believe how 'minging' she was!
Oh well They say love is blind!!
Apparently she's started dressing in surfy stuff and had a tattoo to impress him!! 
I think I'm gonna puke!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Put her pic on mingers.com


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

She's just too minging
They wouldn't have her
She everything my H always said he never found attractive in a woman!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Look at you lot trying to make me *****y!!!
Now now!! : - )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I also found an ugly modeling service in the UK


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> She everything my H always said he never found attractive in a woman!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, yes, that's exactly how the OM is to my wife! She promised she'd leave me if I ever did half of the things he does. Sadly, my wife and OM are perfect matches for eachother. Very similar and both kind of ugly, but I still love my fat ugly wife


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Nsweet said:


> but I still love my fat ugly wife


 :rofl:

sorry


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

hahahaha. When I showed a picture of my husband's girlfriend to my friends, they couldn't believe that he was leaving me for her. She is not very attractive. However, she is 10 years younger than me--and she is shorter than I am (probably around 5 ft 2in). She is into yoga too--however, she is a little pudgey.

Also, she lives about 3000 miles away. (She moved to the West in August...so, my husband is having a "long distance" affair). He has totally gone boinkers.

I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I am a catch. 
He is going to regret this one day. He is giving up everything--his career, his son, his wealth, ...everything for this girl. Crazy. 

...he is just so screwed up. I can only pray for him at this point. I have given up trying to save him....it is time to save myself.

It sounds like your husband is super confused too, Daisy. I suggest that you just try not to worry about what is going on inside his head. Try not to figure him out. Just live your life the best that you can--take care of yourself and your kids--and be the best person you can be.
If you do that, everything will fall into place in your life as it should.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

It's true. She may not be as pretty as other girls, she may have a few manly features, she may carry a little extra weight but I look at her and see the sexiest woman alive; someone I feel I've known forever and I don't know why. Everybody chases after her thinner prettier sister but I look at her sis and see an ugly wh***. I look at my wife and see an angel. I married her when we were both fat, she lost the weight and I loved her still, she got fat again and I loved her as much as the day we married. I was actually looking foreward to loving the cougar she would be. And if anyone makes fun of her I'll kick their @$$!

I am better looking than the OM by far and will accomplish much more in life than he will. If she doesn't come back then the next lucky lady gets a great husband that's already been broken in and self changes as a hobby. All the work and none of the nagging.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

jpr said:


> I have a confession....I had to google "minger". I had no idea what that meant.
> 
> You crazy Brits and your slang.
> 
> Good for you, Daisy. He is cake-eating. Don't let him do that to you. You deserve better. He is just trying to alleviate his guilt and make himself feel better. You should give him his space and let him see what it is like to really live without your love and friendship. He needs to figure out what he REALLY wants.


I had to google too and I had lived there once for 4 yrs but didn't know the term! LOL

WOW! What a weekend you had!?! I can understand the confusion you are having!!! Let him miss you, it's been working w/ you pulling away and maybe their bubble will burst and he will become sane again. I do agree w/ jpr though I know it's hard. 

My wkd was opposite. As of this wkd my mindset is - I am filing for divorce in less than 6 wks. He will no longer control my life in leaving me in limbo.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

M2M
You are sounding stronger. Yes this limbo is hell. In a way I wish I had the strength to go and file but deep down I know that I am still hoping for R.
It's so tough though.
Today is a bad day. I feel like going to bed and never waking up! I found out today that he has stopped wearing his wedding ring to work (the ow is there remember). This has really hit me hard!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

It's a lovely spring evening in the uk. it's the kind of evening we wld have walked the dogs and sat outside watching D playing and chatting.
My WH is out with the OW and probably her kids. 
I started feeling really down but then I thought no I'm not doing this. I am the lucky one. I am here with my family, my beautiful kids and my dogs. No guilt, no shame! He is the one that is missing out. I need to look to my future now and if that's without him then so be it.

After having such a bad day yesterday I'm really trying to put my big girls panties on (m2m) and looking at the positive things in my life.
He's killing any love I had left for him. I have no respect for this person any more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

Daisy I need your strength today- im glad you are feeling better


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Sending some your way unsure. I had a terrible day yesterday and will maybe have another tomorrow so I'm glad for the peace today.
Sending hugs and strength your way,
We will get there!!
Xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

Nsweet said:


> Yes, yes, that's exactly how the OM is to my wife! She promised she'd leave me if I ever did half of the things he does. Sadly, my wife and OM are perfect matches for eachother. Very similar and both kind of ugly, but I still love my fat ugly wife


I wish my STBXH loved is fat ugly wife... Instead of the poision dwarf hairy faced bint he's with now!!!:scratchhead:


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## DownUnder (Jul 30, 2011)

Daisy, i have been following your journey and i just wanted to chime in to say that i admire your strength and you truly are an amazing woman. 

Stay strong and have faith in yourself, you will get thru this victoriously in the end (((HUGS)))


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou Downunder. I appreciate your kind words. Sometimes I still feel like this is all a bad dream that I am going to wake up from. I've had 10 months of turmoil I just hope things are going to start getting better now. I feel sick to my stomach knowing that he is with the OW but it's time to move on now. I'm sick of the drama. I just want some peace in my life now.
Hugs
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I guess I was putting a stop to it before he does. I'm so afraid of getting hurt more.
> I thought it would be a good idea to put some more distance between us to see if he would miss me!
> That's the advice they give on the CWI forum!
> I thought I was supposed to stop the cake eating!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One thing I thought of Daisy.

By spending time with you and the OW, he is getting all of his needs met. He has two women glad to give to him while he gets to live a life free of responsibility. That's good for him but lousy for you. 

When you are ready, you need to put a stop to any contact with him. Being available will not bring him back. Start the divorce proceedings. Waiting for him will also hurt because he will do it when he is ready. 

He has to know fully what life will be like without you. The finances visitation with the kids and the fact that you will be with another man. 

In fact, it will keep you in limbo until he is ready to give you up totally. When he leaves, you will feel pain and used. 

The humiliation of being used by a man who is so deep in a fog will hurt worse than it does now. 

If there is any chance that he will realize that this OW will not be able to meet his needs, he needs to be with her full time. Let her make him tea and provide him with entertainment. 

I doubt she will give him anything. She needs him to do for her but she may not have much to give back. He will never see that with you in the picture. 

I think your husband is insecure. He may feel life he failed you? This woman makes him feel needed. She is less threatening to him. Her looks and neediness is an indication. 

Change the way you are with men for yourself. Men need to feel needed, they need to feel that they are your hero. They need to feel respected by the one they love. 

Try to become that woman. Don't do it for him but for you in your next relationship. You recognize your mistakes and thats good. Now you are ready to work on change. 

Let him get all of his needs met by the other OW. Have him see the kids at his apt. They will adjust to that.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Catherine, Thankyou, I know you are right. I am ready to stop contact now. I really felt like I had turned a corner this week but spending time with him yesterday really knocked me back. It's just a reminder of what was. It's got to stop now. He's made his choice to be with her now he has to leave me be. I am finally relieved that I have come to this decision because I know that cutting myself off from him is the only way I am going to start moving on.
What a stupid man. I would have loved him forever.
Thankyou for your support
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Catherine, Thankyou, I know you are right. I am ready to stop contact now. I really felt like I had turned a corner this week but spending time with him yesterday really knocked me back. It's just a reminder of what was. It's got to stop now. He's made his choice to be with her now he has to leave me be. I am finally relieved that I have come to this decision because I know that cutting myself off from him is the only way I am going to start moving on.
> What a stupid man. I would have loved him forever.
> Thankyou for your support
> X
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am sad and at the same time happy. Happy because from the tenor of your writing, I can tell that you are a special lady. You love deeply and well. Indeed he is foolish.

This pure speculation but I will tell you nonetheless. 

When you understand the bondage that you now feel will fall away and you will be able to move on with your life. I am sure that you will not stop loving him but not the kind of love that makes one want to stay in a relationship. 

I think your husband may not have ever felt he deserved a woman like you. He may have felt inadequate, given your attributes. It is not so much that he does not love you as it is that he does not like himself when he is with you

He is drawn to the OW because he may think that her neediness will hide his sense of inadequacy. He spends time with her kids because they cannot tell yet that he is inadequate. This all makes him feel good. 

In time, he will not be equal to OW expectations either. She will not be able to give him the love and support he was accustomed to getting form you. She is too needy to give him much.

Unfortunately, your STBX may have been too lazy to deal with his feelings and took the easy way out. He does not love this OW, he likes the way he feels with her.

The OW is needy and has latched onto a man who was willing to rescue her. He seems like her hero now. But in time he will disappoint her expectations.

The reason I suggested that you go NC is because with you out of the picture, he cannot hide out at you home. He gathers strength from you so that he can keep up the facade of hero.

The limbo you are in now can last for years. He does not want a divorce because he needs your to sure up his self confidence so that he can be a hero for this OW. 

That is why it is essential that you get out of the picture. He must stand on his own and look at his inadequacies. If you keep seeing him, you will last in this limbo for years. 

You will make it possible for him to continue to be her rescuer while leaning on you for support.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Catherine you may have something.
What do you think, Daisy?
I think NC may also make the limbo last shorter (one way or the other). 

Hope you are having a nice day w/ the kiddos.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Mamatomany said:


> Catherine you may have something.
> What do you think, Daisy?
> I think NC may also make the limbo last shorter (one way or the other).
> 
> Hope you are having a nice day w/ the kiddos.


I think Catherine is absolutely spot on. She has described my H and our relationship perfectly!
Thankyou Cathetine for your insight!
I asked him a couple of weeks Ago what does he feel when he sees me now and he said guilt, shame and sadness! I don't make him feel good anymore and that's the bottom line.

M2M Had a lovely afternoon Thankyou. H is popping down later to see my daughter. I'm going to go out : - )
Xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I think Catherine is absolutely spot on. She has described my H and our relationship perfectly!
> Thankyou Cathetine for your insight!
> I asked him a couple of weeks Ago what does he feel when he sees me now and he said guilt, shame and sadness! I don't make him feel good anymore and that's the bottom line.
> 
> ...


catherine ALWAYS has very good advice.

thats good, he should NOT be feeling good.

good for you, and say very little to him.
dont let him feel like you are wanting anything from him more than him to see his daughter.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I think Catherine is absolutely spot on. She has described my H and our relationship perfectly!
> Thankyou Cathetine for your insight!
> I asked him a couple of weeks Ago what does he feel when he sees me now and he said guilt, shame and sadness! I don't make him feel good anymore and that's the bottom line.
> 
> ...


Again this is wild speculation so don't take it at face value. It you have evidence that it may be true or if you want to reinterpret some of your previous assumptions - it may help. 

No no Daisy, you still don't have it right I think. You said "I don't make him feel good anymore and that's the bottom line."

It is not that YOU don't make him feel good, it is HE who cannot feel good about himself. This predated the affair. 

That was probably where he started at the beginning of your relationship? He was never able to overcome his insecurities during the relationship. 

He is sad but not because he had the affair, it goes much deeper, he is sad because he failed to work hard enough to be the man he was capable of being. 

You could not have made him happy or feel good. That's because you have no control over how he feels about himself. 

Your warmth and love probably makes him feel unworthy, that's why HE does not feel good with you. 

You were not replaced by this OW. She cannot hold a candle to you. That's the point, the OW is like a bandaid for his feelings of failure as a man, a husband and father. 

She makes him feel good because she has not yet discover his inadequacies. When she does and starts to lean on him for change, then the fantasy will lift. He will be left with himself again. 

I am going to predict that he will regret his actions within two years and he will long to have you in his life again. But he will have paid for his folly, selfishness and lack of compassion by longing from afar. 

Daisy I hope you will not derail your life and take him back if he is the same as he is now. He will be the same man and he will feel the same way with you and he is likely to cheat again because of it. 

Maybe one day he will face his demons but I don't think you can help him. If you mother him, you will keep yourself in bondage to him. He will continue to live like a teenager with a mom and a gf with little responsibilities. 

Don't feel envious when he spends time with her. It is empty time, with no substance and he probably knows it. He knows he cannot not live up to the expectation of even a needy woman. 

Don't judge the relationship by outside appearances. The cracks are well hidden at this point. They probably realize their folly but cannot admit it. Think about it. 

You are sympathetic but don't act on your sympathy for your husband. You will stunt whatever chance he has for growth. 

Let him battle this one out on his own if you love him. It is hard but, I think you need to see leaving him as an act of love.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Taking notes here... our situation is so similar.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hello all,
My life is in a spin once more.
H came to visit the children on Sunday and we had tea together. He was very quiet and withdrawn all night. As he was leaving he hugged me and burst into tears. He was sobbing. Then left.
While I was in work yesterday txt me to say he was breaking it off with the OW, he said he didn't know how to do it but knows he has too.
I am in work. He has left me a letter to read when I get hone in 3 hours. This is the first time he will have opened up to me in nearly a year.
I'm scared. I had started planning my future without him and now this. This is what I have been praying for. I love him deeply, but I am so scared of being hurt again and the thought of all the hard work that R would require scares me to death!
Help xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Hello all,
> My life is in a spin once more.
> H came to visit the children on Sunday and we had tea together. He was very quiet and withdrawn all night. As he was leaving he hugged me and burst into tears. He was sobbing. Then left.
> While I was in work yesterday txt me to say he was breaking it off with the OW, he said he didn't know how to do it but knows he has too.
> ...


Do what you feel in your heart. 

Just know that he will find it very difficult to give her up. Sometimes the WS goes back and forth between OW and BS when he feels one or the other pulling away. She is unlikely to let him go wither a fight. 

He may also come back to you and continue seeing her. He will find it very hard to give her up if he sees her at school. He wil hide it well this time. 

If he is able to break contact he may mourn the loss for some time. You may have to watch him morning another woman while living with you. 

Read up on the pattern of cheaters who form an emotional attachment to the OM/OW so that you know what you may be getting yourself into. Read the post by BS here on the site. 

You may spend years with this affair and more lies and deceit. What ever you do, don't give easy forgiveness. It is only a possibility but be prepared.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I was hoping for a response from you Catherine.
I just don't know if I am strong enough to go through all thus again. I love my H deeply but I am so afraid.
I'll let you know what the letters says. 
I M not going to make any quick decisions on this.
The road to R is long and I just don't know if I am ready for that journey yet.
I have already decided that if I was to consider R then he gas to go for IC, MC and leave his job. These terms are non negotiablre!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unsure78 (Oct 17, 2011)

DG,

please be careful- my stbxh ended it with the OW too for several months only to get back with her ( and i caught some contact several times in between)- I know some people really do R but please be careful- you may want to consider putting in a VAR in the car, or GPS in the car, or a keylogger on the computer for your sanity to assure yourself of NC. - Read the CWI threads here, in particular look up -Almost Recovered he gave me some good guidance during this time


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## justwhy (Dec 7, 2011)

Just be mindful that she was OK being OW, people like that are self-centered if wants your H she will continue to be the OW. 
Be careful & good luck


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

WOW! What did the note say? I am praying for you/lots of strength/positive energy heading your way!


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Daisy,

I truly hope your husband is sincere about reconciling with you but please be careful. A heart can only take so much breaking.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi everyone
Just a quick update
He has Definately ended it with the OW. I have lots of hard proof. 
The letter was sincere and heartfelt. I won't go into details but as a regular on TAM I know the things to look out for now.
True remorse
Taken complete ownership of what he has done
Aknoledged the pain he has caused.
Has said that he know his words mean nothing to me now but that he is fully aware that only his actions will prove to me that he is sincere.

We talked yesterday for 6 hours. I'm exhausted. He was open and honest. He answered every question I had. 
We talked about our marriage, the past and the future.

He said he wanted to finish with her a while ago but felt backed into a corner didn't know how tog rt out of it. 
He also said that he doesn't expect to just walk straight back into my life as he knows the pain he has caused me. He knows I'm hurting and so afraid of letting him in again.
He admits that he was having some kind of mid life crisis and we spoke a out why we think this all happened.

There's a long way to go yet. But I'm taking it slow. I feel so weary and guarded and I've told him that. He understands that it's going to take a long time before I am able to trust him again but he has said he is willing to do all the hard work and prove to me in his actions that he wants to be with me.

There's lots to tell you all. I've found out loads about the OW. She's turned out to be a real bunny boiller!! Gotta laugh!! One of the girls enjoy works with H told me yesterday that the OW was turning herself into me! She had been Lookking at my FB pictures and started wearing the same clothes mad me and doing her hair like mine. Telling my H that she and her kids like doing all the things we used to do as a family etc etc. H says he feels like an idiot and couldn't see it until it was pointed out to him. Basically she told him everything he wanted to hear 
And tried to change herself into me to get him to love her. My H feels very foolish and stupid.

He told me that he was sat in her house Saturday night and it was like a lightbulb had gone off in his heart and his head and he didn't want to be there. All he wanted was to come home to me. That's when he knew it was over and even if I didn't want him back being with her was not what he wanted.

So I'm going away to my sisters for a couple of days to have a break. I will catch up with you all in a few days time and let you know how it's going.
Take care all
And Thankyou xxxx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Congradulations DG  I just knew things would work out for you in the end. And what did I tell you about the OW getting clingy and weird  it never fails.

Unfortunately, I can't say the same for my situation but I did my best and I deserve better.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Wow... what a turn-around! Congrats, but be careful, too.

Doesn't look like my relationship will turn around this way, but I do like the success stories!


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm pleased for you DG but please guard your heart - you must feel a real sense of relief but you both have a long road ahead 

good luck! It's nice to hear a potential success story


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## DownUnder (Jul 30, 2011)

Daisy, im happy for you....i hope your reconcilliation is going smoother than mine.

Can i just asked you one thing because i am in a similar situation now, I know you said that he has definately ended it with the OW and he has given you lots of hard proof, does he also leave his job?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

DownUnder said:


> Daisy, im happy for you....i hope your reconcilliation is going smoother than mine.
> 
> Can i just asked you one thing because i am in a similar situation now, I know you said that he has definately ended it with the OW and he has given you lots of hard proof, does he also leave his job?


I would suggest he has to. NC means NC. Daisy needs peace and security in her life after all she's been through. She won't get that if her husband is still working with the OW.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> I would suggest he has to. NC means NC. Daisy needs peace and security in her life after all she's been through. She won't get that if her husband is still working with the OW.


I understand what you all are saying but depending on job availability and his qualifications it may be easier said than done. If he is under contract at his school or district it may be impossible until the contract is up. They do have kids and a house to support.... as long as he is going through active motions of changing or maybe she will change (if she moves due to her divorce).


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi everyone. Thankyou for you thoughts.
Things are going well. We are talking talking talking which is great. It has been over a year since my h has opened up to me and it's as if he just wants to get it all off his chest. I can see the man I fell in love with returning and it's wonderful.
He is answering all my questions and being patient and loving. He really wants to recommit to our marriage again.

In answer to your question Downunder , no be hasn't quit is job. BUT the OW has not returned to school since he finished it and has turned out to be extremely unstable. She has. Een txtin him and hassling him since he finished it and be has shown me all the messages. He is completely ignoring her. There is a chance that she will not return to school but if she does then we will have to deal with it. But unlike last summer when I thought it was over, this is completely different. My h is ashamed and embarrassed by his actions and I know and he knows that it's done for good.
There's loads I Cld tell you but I can't go into it now but I will soon because I want to share the experience of our false recovery last year And the difference now.

My H wants to move back home next week!
I can't wait. Xxxxx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

good for you daisygirl41.

hope things continue to go well for you and hubby.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> I understand what you all are saying but depending on job availability and his qualifications it may be easier said than done. If he is under contract at his school or district it may be impossible until the contract is up. They do have kids and a house to support.... as long as he is going through active motions of changing or maybe she will change (if she moves due to her divorce).


I agree with this now.....Although, I did not agree with this years ago since my H also had a EA/PA with a woman he worked with.

He never quit his job, she still works there to this day. Let me tell you, it was very hard to trust him with this going on. Sometimes I still get triggers and get upset.....but if he didn't stay, he probably would have gotten laid off, who knows. Now he is in management position and things are going very well career wise.

I hated that he stayed working with OW but it is possible to still R as long as NC is reached, even if working at the same place. It just takes ALOT of open communication, including but not limited to: checking in all the time during the day, no lunches with other co-workers until trust is re-established, open access to phone/email/chat/etc...I'm sure you get the picture. 

But it is not easy when OW is still there. Just take comfort that she is crazy and H sees it!! That is the biggest thing, that H sees how crazy OW is and the fog is lifted. As long as that is the case and you guys truely work on your marriage and communication, R should be possible


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am so happy Daisy. 

I know that you are very happy but this is just the beginning. Try to remember that you both have much to do to make sure this does not happen again.

Also, giving him cheap forgiveness just because you are happy will not work ion the end. If hois commitment is too weak to endure walking with your pain, then you may regret R.

He may have a hard time when you brig it up time and time again but you may need to keep revisiting this until you heal.

In addition the process may take 2 years or more. Don't skip steps. After the excitement wears off, you may become sad again. Give yourself a chance to heal and make sure he is there with you. 

One final word. You identified some behaviors that may have contributed to the affair. He is 100% responsible for the affair so get that solved first. 

But at the same time work on you. Don't take any responsibility for the way he handled the problems. 

Nothing you did deserved the pain and humiliation that his betrayal brought to the family. There were less disruptive ways toy handle them. He news to acknowledge this.


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## DownUnder (Jul 30, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> In answer to your question Downunder , no be hasn't quit is job. BUT the OW has not returned to school since he finished it and has turned out to be extremely unstable. She has. Een txtin him and hassling him since he finished it and be has shown me all the messages. He is completely ignoring her. There is a chance that she will not return to school but if she does then we will have to deal with it. But unlike last summer when I thought it was over, this is completely different. My h is ashamed and embarrassed by his actions and I know and he knows that it's done for good.
> 
> *There's loads I Cld tell you but I can't go into it now but I will soon because I want to share the experience of our false recovery last year And the difference now.*
> 
> ...


Daisy, i would love it if you can please share that experience with me....i think im right in the middle of that false recovery right now


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Catherine
Thanks once again for your sound advice. Yes I am happy but I am also being careful. 
My H is really stepping. Up to the mark. We are continuing to talk and he is answering everything I need to know. He has said he is totally committed to our marriage and me and will do everything he can to prove it. 
The last year of my life has been a nightmare. He truly recognises the pain he has caused And takes full responsibility for it. He holds me when I cry and listens to me when I talk . He is giving reassurance in words and actions.
I can't explain it in words but back last year in one of my posts I said it felt like my H had been abducted by aliens. I feel like the space ship has returned and brought my H home!
He has turned back into the man I always knew he was.
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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Down under: I will reply to your post later today. When I have some more time.
Thinking of you. X
False recovery? : H not talking, blame shifting, denial!
Will go into more details for you later xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jenny123 (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm happy for you. Good luck! I didn't look back in the thread, but how long were you separated for?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi Jenny. Seperated physically since December but my H checked out emotionally a year ago. 
I can't shut him up now. A whole year of talking to catch up on!
X
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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

Must say I am jealous. I am hoping Easter and the lack of family hits him hard. 


-180 all the way for me!


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Daisy...I am so praying for you. I really hope that everything works out for you and your family. You seem like such a wonderful and true person. I know that you deserve a husband who loves you and cherishes you.

...I am a bit jealous too. I guess that part of me wishes that my husband would come graveling back. I don't think I would necessarily take him back, but I would like the option. My husband is exactly like you have described your husband--it almost seems like an alien has snatched him out of his body. He is definitely not the man that I married. But, unlike your husband, I think there is 0% chance he is going to return to his normal self and realize what he has done.

You are in my thoughts! We all love a happy ending--and I am certainly hoping for one in your case.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

M2m I've got to admit it but that's what worked in the end for me. It took me a long time to get there but when he saw I was moving on with my life without him and doing ok it really bloody hit him!
I never did a proper 180. I couldn't. I just did my own adapted version.
Good luck M2M. 
You're strong. You can do it
Xx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

jpr said:


> Daisy...I am so praying for you. I really hope that everything works out for you and your family. You seem like such a wonderful and true person. I know that you deserve a husband who loves you and cherishes you.
> 
> ...I am a bit jealous too. I guess that part of me wishes that my husband would come graveling back. I don't think I would necessarily take him back, but I would like the option. My husband is exactly like you have described your husband--it almost seems like an alien has snatched him out of his body. He is definitely not the man that I married. But, unlike your husband, I think there is 0% chance he is going to return to his normal self and realize what he has done.
> 
> You are in my thoughts! We all love a happy ending--and I am certainly hoping for one in your case.


Thankyou jpr.
Always keep a little hope if R is what u really want.
Even though I started moving on with my life I told my H that I had already forgiven him for his actions and that the door would always be open to him if he wanted to talk. Thankfully he realised that I was being honest with him and he did indeed decide to come and talk to me.
I still can't believe he is actually home. It's seems like the past year Ws just a very bad dream I am just waking up from.
Good luck.
X
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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Guess I need to move to the reconciliation forum now
: - )
See you all over there I hope
DG
X
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