# Virtual Affair?



## redwood60

Need advice. Wife very secretive about facebook/sms. Relationship on the whole ok and sex is good. Yet I followed her recently on facebook and she is having a sort of affair. It is very light, mildly explicit with a guy half her age. Just some general hugs and kisses and yes you can touch my breasts (virtual) type thing. They have never met.

Yet what confuses me most is when she receives a facebook compliment from this guy, our sex is wonderful. It has been going on for about 6 weeks now. 

I asked her direct and she denied the facebook activity. I am confused as to what is really going on here. She remains warm and loving.

Any idea's????????


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## EleGirl

Put a keylogger on the computer and capture what she's really doing. With the evidence then confront her and tell her that if she wants to stay married it has to stop.

Before you confront her find out more about this guy. Is he married? Where does he work?


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## redwood60

He is single and still a virgin. Lives abroad so meet extremely unlikely without me knowing. However I have just seen a facebook comment that they are intending to move across to skype. Unfortunately I can't monitor this.

Could this be the start of a slippery slide to relationship doom?


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## EleGirl

How old are you? she? and he?

Why can you not monitor this.

It's a very high probability that your wife is not the only woman he is doing with is. It's also a very high probability that everything he tell her is a lie.

One thing that works is for you to create a fake female account and make friends with him. Find out more about him.


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## redwood60

unfortunately I don't have the password.

48 me, 46 wife, 24 him, 22 years happily married.

Since a couple of weeks me totally confused.


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## EleGirl

One thing that you could do is to copy off all of the evidence that you have. Then you can use it to confront her. 

Tell her that you will not accept your wife flirting with any man online. You will not accept her Skype-ing with a man who told could touch her body.

You will need to have a plan of what you expect from her. Do not confront until you have your plan.
•	NO contact. she has to write him a no-contact letter.
•	You both have to give each other the passwords to all of your online accounts, computers, cell phones. 
•	You both agree that the other can snoop in your stuff at any time.
•	My H and I also agreed that we would have key loggers on our computers so that the other could see what we were up to at all times. The best kind of key loggers are ones that either send out report logs via email or to a web site. If one of you deletes the key logger, it’s taken a proof of sneaking around for an affair.

Get the book “Surviving an Affair” by Dr. Harley. It will help you figure out what to do.


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## F-102

This could be EXTREMELY dangerous. She is getting emotional fulfillment from someone OUTSIDE of the marriage, and she is already lying to you about it.

She may be getting the toxic idea that "maybe I can have a little something on the side...what could it hurt?", and if she is getting high off of the attention she is getting from this POSOM, she may very well start fishing for compliments and validation from others, perhaps guys she knows in person, or co-workers, etc.


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## redwood60

thought about that but confronting her with the evidence highlights that I behaved in an untrustworthy way to. I mean I did it because I was suspicious but nonetheless I have peeked in her account


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## EleGirl

Please get the book I suggested and read it.

It is not untrustworthy to find out what is going on when you get the feeling that something wrong is going on in your marriage.


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## Will_Kane

redwood60 said:


> thought about that but confronting her with the evidence highlights that I behaved in an untrustworthy way to. I mean I did it because I was suspicious but nonetheless I have peeked in her account


Why do you believe it is wrong to look at her account? You were concerned, so you looked. I see nothing wrong with that.


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## Disenchanted

redwood60 said:


> thought about that but confronting her with the evidence highlights that I behaved in an untrustworthy way to. I mean I did it because I was suspicious but nonetheless I have peeked in her account


It's amazing how pervasive this kind of thinking is among betrayed spouses. Not that I am helping OP here but wow. You snoop on your wife, catch her cheating (emotionally) and you feel guilty for snooping?

There is something terribly wrong with the world if this is guilt worthy.

I never had a hesitation or a moment of second guessing whether my wayward spouse deserved monitoring.


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## mablenc

Brace yourself she's going to throw a fit (as in toddler type) deny and blame you for everything. 

If you have not, read this:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## redwood60

you are right of course but I do believe 2 wrongs don't make a right.

anyway I have just worked out the skype password so I will monitor that for a couple of days in order to prepare for the inevitable confrontation.

I suppose part of my reluctance is also because I know nothing physical can happen here and we have had 20+ good years. I am still coming to terms with what is going on as it is a complete shock.


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## Will_Kane

There are a lot of us who had that complete shock. Sometimes it's hard to remember how shocked I was. But the sooner you can stop trying to find all the implausible and far-fetched reasons to explain it away, and the sooner you can begin focusing on the simple truth of what you see and hear, the better off you will be.


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## EleGirl

redwood60 said:


> you are right of course but I do believe 2 wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> anyway I have just worked out the skype password so I will monitor that for a couple of days in order to prepare for the inevitable confrontation.
> 
> I suppose part of my reluctance is also because I know nothing physical can happen here and we have had 20+ good years. I am still coming to terms with what is going on as it is a complete shock.


Well, if they start Skype-ing and sexting your tune will change. There might not be any physical touch but you will find that most likely your mind will not distinguish the difference.


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## 6301

Ask yourself this. Does it bother you that another man is talking to your wife and telling her that he wants to touch her breasts? 

Ask yourself this. What would her reaction be if you were texting a woman half your age and the woman was telling you that she wants to touch your penis. Think she would be happy with it?

Ask yourself this. Is there any reason why she has her face book/sms locked down so you can't read it? Why would she do that if there wasn't nothing to hide. Do she have access to your accounts? 

One more thing. She's your wife and if nobody has told you this then I will. It's inappropriate that your wife should be having this kind of talks with any man. 

If you asked her about it and she denied it, then tell her why in the hell would I make such a comment if I didn't see it. also tell her that as long as your married her accounts are not to be private and you have the right to look. You have to do this in a way that she KNOWS that you KNOW and it will stop now or the outcome of her lying and sneaking will blow up in her face and she will have no one to blame but herself. Tell her that if it happens again, she can FB this kid from a motel room where she will be living. She's your wife. You know her best. If your gut says that she's up to no good, then it's no doubt true.


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## TDSC60

redwood60 said:


> you are right of course but I do believe 2 wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> anyway I have just worked out the skype password so I will monitor that for a couple of days in order to prepare for the inevitable confrontation.
> 
> I suppose part of my reluctance is also because I know nothing physical can happen here and we have had 20+ good years. I am still coming to terms with what is going on as it is a complete shock.


Do not base anything now on your 20 years of a good marriage. People change and obviously your wife has changed for the worst. Your "good" marriage is over. Can you get it back? - NO you can't. But just maybe you can build a happier marriage from the ashes of the old one. You have to accept your wife of 20 years has left the building and is living the life of a wild tramp on-line at a minimum. She has crossed the line from faithful to unfaithful and is lying to you about it which makes her behavior much worse. Even with a physical affair, some guys say that the lying, deceptive, disrespectful behavior was even more painful and harder to forgive than the actual sex with the affair partner.

Moving to Skype just gives her the opportunity to show the guy her breasts and other parts of her anatomy. She is getting in deeper and deeper and it will not be long before she is "in love" with this new man.

A couple of truths are played out here time after time.

The affair has to end and she has to be completely truthful with you before you should consider R.

You have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.

EDIT: I just connected a couple of dots from two of your earlier posts. You are saying that there is a 24 years old male who is still a virgin. Really??? And you believe that? No healthy 24 year old male is going to be a virgin. Something is very wrong here.


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## Chaparral

Tell your wife you found something really cool. You met a twenty two year old and she wants you to stroke your penis for her while she rubs one out. Ask your wife how cool is that. Tell her you can't wait till the next time.


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## awake1

From many of these threads i've gathered this: Often what you know, is only a small tip of the spear. 

There is probably lots more you don't know about. 

Many stories start out with "I think my spouse had an EA" and turn into "My spouse had at least one PA". 

I'm not saying that's what's going on, but you should mentally prepare yourself for that. 

Have you read No More Mr Nice guy? Married man sex life primer? Do you lift weights? 

It's not a very far leap from your wife saying "I want to do this to you, mister other man" and actually doing it. Even if they're separated by many miles, there is always another guy coming down the pike, willing to have sex with someone who has poor boundaries.


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## the guy

redwood60 said:


> thought about that but confronting her with the evidence highlights that I behaved in an untrustworthy way to. I mean I did it because I was suspicious but nonetheless I have peeked in her account


So its OK for a bank or an employer to do a back round check on you to prevent, or minimize from being ripped off.

But its being untrustworthy to prevent or minimize getting emotionally ripped off by the women you love betraying you?

Maybe a bad analogy, but my point is you owe it to your self to protect your self and if her current behavior dictates an investigation well then its a damn shame your old lady behaves one way when your not around and behaves a completely different way when you are right in front of her!

She brought this crap on her self, your just protecting your self from being betrayed and continuelly getting emotionally ripped off.


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## the guy

Chaparral said:


> Tell your wife you found something really cool. You met a twenty two year old and she wants you to stroke your penis for her while she rubs one out. Ask your wife how cool is that. Tell her you can't wait till the next time.


What sucks is OP's chick will most likely tell him to go for it....just another reason to continue her betrayal.

Hell I like the idea , but just be prepared to have to take a new approach if the whole "shoe on the other foot" doesn't work.

I hope it does....its worth a shot.

Please let us know how she responds.


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## redwood60

> You have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.


I think that is part of my problem. I am not yet ready to end a 20+ year happy relationship for this one event. I am angry and sad it is happening but want to know why before I threaten divorce.

I agree though the signs aren't good. 

However she made an effort last night to go through her facebook account in front of me. It was interesting because she highlighted almost everything except the one I would really like to see.

I showed only little interest and carried on reading. She obviously starting chatting to him lying next to me in bed.

I went to sleep and woke up after a couple of hours so went to check her account. She had been chatting to the guy. She wrote: Sorry wasn't able to chat etc. etc. maybe tomorrow. Hugs and kisses in a nightie. 

On rechecking some of the posting times she is chatting while I am around but usually waits until I shower or go get something from a store. 

Facebook is open almost all the time she is online. Its as though she wants to get caught.


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## Tobyboy

Your WW has one foot out the door already!!! She's just waiting for YOU to give her that final push! This way, it's on you. That's why she baiting you to bring up the facebook chat! 

Awake1 is right! What you think you know is just the tip of the iceberg! 

Here's what I would do:
1. Consult with a lawyer about your rights in your state. 
2. Go all 007. Lets see how far the rabbit hole goes!!
3. Do not confront without being mentally, emotionally prepared!
4. Gather all financial papers. 

Do not get caught doing this! Act normal and never reveal your sources.

If you confront now, expect the "ILYBNILWY" line and "I haven't be happy for years" line. 

Bottom line...she's up to no good. She has a plan and has set it in motion. Your job is to to catch up or be left behind. Time to nut up! Scary...right? You can do this. We're here to guide you, in whatever you decide to do. Good luck and keep posting!


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## the guy

Maybe she is looking at this as an avenue to get out of the marriage?

Maybe she doesn't;t have the balls to face you head on, but is waiting for you to confront?

Hell I haven't a clue, but I do suggest you plan your confrontation so it has the greatest effect.

Often what a wayward expect is completely different then what really happens..like exposing the affair to the guys wife or girl friend before the wayward ever has a clue that the betrayed even suspected.

Keep doing your research and find out as much as you can before you confront....enless she is planning an over night trip with "girl friends" then you might have to change your game plan.

But for now the best way to fight an affair is exposing it to the AP spouse...the other mans wife if you will.

In some case exposure is most effective even before the confrontation..it eliminates any damage control on the wayward part.

In short, make a plan and work the plan. Work on having the most effective confrontation...one that will get her to think twice and second guess her choices. A Plan that shows her how confident you are in never sharing her with some one and the confidence that you can and will find a women that will always behave as if you were always next to her even when your not!


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## Chaparral

If he is half her age she probably doesn't want out of the marriage. She is using your trust to make a fool of you. Do not delay in busting her, things are getting worse by the hour. 

Have you checked her phone bill to see if they are also talking?


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## Cosmos

What she's doing is inappropriate, no matter how far away he lives. Tell her that it has to stop immediately.


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## the guy

Cosmos said:


> What she's doing is inappropriate, no matter how far away he lives. Tell her that it has to stop immediately.


Stop what!!!!

Jump the gun and be labled as a controling husband or do the digging and have proof that his old lady is infact screwing around behind OP's back?

Chap is right on he mad a big observation that this is really one big fantasy, with some kid who could care a less about some MILF...the more reason to show OP's wife a smoking gun that will validate the tough love OP will need to show in the future.

If OP goes in half @ss and doesn't have the ammo to back it up she will find another why to meet her addiction...but an effective confrontation will show WW and everyone else that gets exposed to the affair that OP will not take any sh1t and do what it takes to save and protect his wife and family ...not control it!!!!!!


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## seasalt

I can never understand how a person can share their spouse with a third party and by the way you no longer have a happy marriage. You don't sound very happy to me.

Your wife is a fool for trying to hold onto someone half her age with a virtual relationship. When she realizes how less than satisfying that is what will be her next step? You have all you need to know she is behaving inappropriately and disrespectfully, why are you waiting to confront if you don't want a divorce and want to save your marriage?

End your hurt now.

Seasalt


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## harrybrown

Sometimes you have to be ready to lose your marriage to save it.

She is cheating on you, but there could be others. 

So when you confront, be ready to divorce, if the behavior will not change.


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## Cosmos

the guy said:


> Stop what!!!!


Stop being inappropriate with another man?

IMO, the OP has more than enough to go on with the OM asking to see his wife's breasts.


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## 86857

Virtual? Let's get real.
So imagine if this guy was sitting in your bedroom and she was saying all that to him? Ain't much difference I'm afraid as she was chatting to him while you slept beside her. 
She has crossed the line so much that she is now a speck in the distance and it may not be the only thing going on. You are her HUSBAND. 

Take the advice on here and gather as much as you can - use screenshot and email the pics to yourself - don't forget to delete the 'sent' message. Maybe do it a couple of hours after she goes to sleep. Keylogger of course. Posters will give you other ideas. Go to evidence gathering thread. Check her texts too if you can, everything.
STOP feeling guilty about doing this. That is the least of your concerns. You are being treated like a doormat. She has forced you into this position. 
Lawyer up and check out your finances etc. You need those papers to wave at her as well as your evidence because right now she thinks you are a pushover and she can do what she likes. 
You don't want your marriage to end but do you want to stay in it and put up with this nonsense? Wife telling other guys they can stroke her breasts for godsakes? Don't matter if it's 'just' on a screen. You have to go in guns blazing here to send her the message loud and clear so that (a) she stops contact and (b) she doesn't do this again. Show her you mean business and please if you can follow the advice on here because that is what most are saying. 
Redwood you deserve a WHOLE lot better than this. 
Get angry and get strong.


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## redwood60

developments: I confronted her this morning that she was being secretive and behaving strange. I specifically asked to see all chats between her and X. She asked why X and I replied because he is a name I don't know. 

She said OK and starting crying about how I don't trust her and threatened to leave. I said just go or open the chat. She did open the chat and deleted it before my very eyes. 

I managed to see the hugs and kisses in a nightie bit and latched onto that. 

OK discussion/argument but few highlights.

She admitted she felt turned on that someone half her age was prepared to write sexually/romanticly with her. She said she didn't feel it was cheating because the benefit of this was transferred to our sex life so I gained too. Also due to location there was no chance ever of a meet. For her this was very safe and showed she wanted nobody else. 

I asked why be secretive then and she said she felt embarrassed by it but enjoyed being sexy with me after the chats. She felt I would be angry if I knew what was turning her on.

I said I wasn't but was devasted that she hid things from me after being together so long. 

I said if her behaviour continued I would want full access to her account and would consult a divorce lawyer. She said she was sorry and would stop.

BUT:::::::::: as I have seen all her chats I know she is still lying about some aspects of this. She denies SMS him, I know she has.

Anyway she is away on business this week and no she cannot possibly meet up with this guy so we will see. She believes I do not have access to her accounts so we will now see what happens.

I have due to the lies decided to divorce her if she does not now stop with this. So Friday is now a big day. Either she comes home and we begin rebuilding or she is gone.

I will keep you updated.

Also big thanks for this forum. I would have failed miserably during our discussion/argument without the tips on here. Although the discussion wasn't text book and I still made mistakes, it went better with your help.


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## F-102

Away on business? Cannot POSSIBLY meet up with this guy? Hey, I have some wonderful beachfront property in Wyoming I'd like to sell you!

Why don't you innocuously ask her boss what hotel she will be staying at, you know, for a romantic surprise?

I'll be willing to bet that the boss has absolutely NO IDEA what you're talking about.

Oh, and she cried not because she hurt you, but because she GOT CAUGHT!


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## redwood60

I know it may seem different but believe me THERE IS NO WAY THEY COULD MEET DUE TO THE LOCATIONS WHICH I HAVE CHECKED AND CONFIRMED.

The business trip was planned a while back and is genuine. So basically she has to decide. Clear it up and stop and come back home or continue and stay away.


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## Will_Kane

redwood60 said:


> She said OK and starting crying about how I don't trust her and *threatened to leave*. I said just go or open the chat. She did open the chat and *deleted it *before my very eyes.


You didn't want to threaten divorce and throw away 20 years, while it was practically the first thing out of her mouth. What does that say about how differently each of you view your relationship?


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## F-102

Perhaps I flew off the handle there, but I still have a gut feeling that she has NO INTENTION of dropping the POSOM. She may simply find other ways to communicate with him.

And, I'm also getting the feeling that there is more, MUCH MORE going on here than you have found out. What she told you when confronted (and I wouldn't buy it, BTW) may be "trickle truth"-when she gives you little bits and pieces of the truth at a time. It usually goes like this:

"We only talked-nothing happened"
"We only texted-nothing happened"
"We only met for coffee-nothing happened"
"We only hugged once-nothing happened"
"We only kissed-nothing happened"
"We only made out in his car once-nothing happened"

They keep feeding you little bits and pieces, hoping that the next tidbit they give you is the one where you're finally satisfied and will then shut up and get off of her case.


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## Will_Kane

redwood60 said:


> I know it may seem different but believe me THERE IS NO WAY THEY COULD MEET DUE TO THE LOCATIONS WHICH I HAVE CHECKED AND CONFIRMED.
> 
> The business trip was planned a while back and is genuine. So basically she has to decide. Clear it up and stop and come back home or continue and stay away.


The amount of secrecy and the effort she made to protect her relationship with her online beau and the frequency and times of day of communications shows you that she is deeply invested in this online relationship.

First, the good news: She IS going to give up this relationship, because you caught it in time, were able to find enough evidence for her to admit it, and she will not throw away her marriage to you over it.

More good news is that you can access her accounts and monitor it.

Now, the bad news: She IS going to contact this guy again. It's not going to end on the first, or maybe even the second go-round. She is going to contact him via the methods she thinks you don't have access to. If you ask her, "have you contacted him again?", she will lie and deny until you present evidence.

Once she realizes you have access, she will change her passwords or go to different methods. She is going to try to keep this relationship alive UNTIL you reach the point of filing for divorce, or she KNOWS you ARE SERIOUS about it.

I don't doubt that you are serious about it now, but I don't think your wife knows you are, and even if she did, at this point she only is concerned about GETTING CAUGHT, so if she thinks you cannot catch her, she will continue to do it.

My suggestion is to have her handwrite a no contact letter on paper and give it to you to mail to this guy. Then send the same message via facebook or email in front of you. Let her know how much this bothers you and that you have no desire to remain married to a woman who is sexing it up with someone else online.

And, of course, keep on monitoring.


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## redwood60

f-102 and will I agree. But call me old fashioned I believe in a second chance. We have been good together for 20 years and to throw away all that now just for this one slip up, is in my opinion not a balanced judgment. 

Thats why I actually feel this trip comes at just the right time. She can go away and reflect and decide what to do. If she does the right thing and puts an end to it, fine I will get over it. If she doesn't, fine I have the evidence and divorce will be the result.

In effect this week will ultimately highlight whether we are still on the same page or not.

I really must thank this website and all the posters. I would really have had a more difficult confrontation that I actually had. That was down to you all and the amazing amount of advice including how she would react. Fantastic help and support in what is a very difficult time for me.

I will keep you updated.


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## mablenc

Really? Heard of airplanes, trains, buses, cars? 

This is what you told her:

I caught you stealing cookies from the jar, her still chewing says "I only licked it and put it back". You say "that's ok don't do it again. Let me put the jar in your reach and put a glass of milk next to it. While I look away. By the way I didn't count them so I have no way of knowing if you took one".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc

I would peek at the luggage, new underwear or sexy underwear is a red flag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

redwood60 said:


> f-102 and will I agree. But call me old fashioned I believe in a second chance. We have been good together for 20 years and to throw away all that now just for this one slip up, is in my opinion not a balanced judgment.
> 
> Thats why I actually feel this trip comes at just the right time. She can go away and reflect and decide what to do. If she does the right thing and puts an end to it, fine I will get over it. If she doesn't, fine I have the evidence and divorce will be the result.
> 
> In effect this week will ultimately highlight whether we are still on the same page or not.
> 
> I really must thank this website and all the posters. I would really have had a more difficult confrontation that I actually had. That was down to you all and the amazing amount of advice including how she would react. Fantastic help and support in what is a very difficult time for me.
> 
> I will keep you updated.


Don't get me wrong, redwood; I would LOVE to see your marriage saved and see you give her a 2nd chance, but only if she's EARNED your trust again.

FWIW, she may not truly realize that what she was doing was wrong, and her mind may have truly convinced her that it was perfectly safe and innocent because of the distances involved. There are a lot of people who believe that it "isn't really cheating if there's no sex".


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## the guy

Good job on not revealing your sources.

But how in the hell did you cover up the fact that you knew about X and her chats?

Dude you did however drop the ball on establishing boundries and work on a NC letter to OM.

Before she leaves she must get together with you and send this POS a letter informing the OM what a better man you are and what they did was wrong and will never happen again.

This letter should also include that for the sake of her marriage the OM should never attemp contact again and she will do the same.

Bro...what sucks is she won't do this and its a good indicator in what you will uncover this up and coming week.

Has she told you who this guy is or is she protecting him?

If I was you I would get two steps ahead of your old lady instead of being two steps behind and go consult a lawyer understand your options and deal with this next week when you see her addiction is stronger then your think.

The only one that can help her thru this addiction is you and yet she won;t sacrifice her work for this family emergency...phucken sad



A letter that denounces their inappropriate crap.


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## Tobyboy

the guy said:


> Good job on not revealing your sources.
> 
> But how in the hell did you cover up the fact that you knew about X and her chats?
> 
> Dude you did however drop the ball on establishing boundries and work on a NC letter to OM.
> 
> Before she leaves she must get together with you and send this POS a letter informing the OM what a better man you are and what they did was wrong and will never happen again.
> 
> This letter should also include that for the sake of her marriage the OM should never attemp contact again and she will do the same.
> 
> Bro...what sucks is she won't do this and its a good indicator in what you will uncover this up and coming week.
> 
> Has she told you who this guy is or is she protecting him?
> 
> If I was you I would get two steps ahead of your old lady instead of being two steps behind and go consult a lawyer understand your options and deal with this next week when you see her addiction is stronger then your think.
> 
> The only one that can help her thru this addiction is you and yet she won;t sacrifice her work for this family emergency...phucken sad
> 
> 
> 
> A letter that denounces their inappropriate crap.


:iagree: 
Also.....remember she is still lying about the SMS and the progression to Skype! 

Since you have confronted....an ultimatum is in order! Tell her that your going to extract all past FB messages and if you find more lies, the marriage is over!! Do this before she leaves on her trip.


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## 6301

redwood60 said:


> developments:
> 
> She admitted she felt turned on that someone half her age was prepared to write sexually/romanticly with her. She said she didn't feel it was cheating because the benefit of this was transferred to our sex life so I gained too. Also due to location there was no chance ever of a meet. For her this was very safe and showed she wanted nobody else.
> on.
> QUOTE]
> 
> This is what she doesn't understand and your job is to make her fully aware of the damage it causes.
> 
> She gets turned on by some guy half her age with talks about sex. Doesn't realize that it's wrong, unacceptable and inappropriate but the killer is............ THE BENIFIT WAS TRANSFERED TO OUR SEX LIFE. What she just said was IMO was that she's having sex with you while thinking about her on line affair partner. To me that is not only a slap in the face but a kick straight to the groin.
> 
> Imagine the look on her face if the situation was reversed and you were the one having the on line affair with a woman half your age, getting really turned on and telling her that she's benefiting from the good sex because your using your wife's body while thinking about the young hot chick that's turning you on over the computer. Your wife would be so humiliated and hurt that she would never forgive you for that.
> 
> When she gets home, sit her ass down and explain that to her and let her know that. Let her know that if she has that little respect for you then she should move on and have her sexy chats someplace else other than the family home. She has to understand that and ask her to put herself in your shoes and ask her how she would feel about it if you did it. If she says she would be ok with this, she's a liar. No one would put up with that.
> 
> By the way. What is SMS?


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## Chaparral

Tobyboy said:


> :iagree:
> Also.....remember she is still lying about the SMS and the progression to Skype!
> 
> Since you have confronted....an ultimatum is in order! Tell her that your going to extract all past FB messages and if you find more lies, the marriage is over!! Do this before she leaves on her trip.


She is still lying. She is still lying. Not possible she will go nc this week.

Make her some lists to take with her. Tell her everytime she contacts him, tell her to add to the lists, things like where she plans on moving too, what things she wants to take with her, things she doesn't want, things she thinks you will want, how to divide gifts to you both, etc.

You should just tell her before she leaves you know she's still lying. 
Espcially how you have benefited from the sex. She was pretending you were someone else.

Too bad you do not have time to buy a pen recorder. If she does this under your nose, what does she do when travelling without you?


----------



## Mrsmartian

Redwood60, if you haven't already. Perhaps read re: second guessing everything. Virtual, pretend. Whatever. It's real. 
Be strong. Be hard faced. Make rules. You caught it in time. All is not lost.


----------



## daggeredheart

Also be aware that there are aps designed to hide texting like hide my text and tiger text. .they are installed but are stealthed and you cannot see them on the icon pages.


----------



## Hortensia

Chaparral said:


> If he is half her age she probably doesn't want out of the marriage. She is using your trust to make a fool of you. Do not delay in busting her, things are getting worse by the hour.
> 
> Have you checked her phone bill to see if they are also talking?


I have the same opinion. I don't think she wants to divorce and be with him. She just is flattered that a 20 something y.o. shows her interest. It validates to herself that she is still attractive, feels young again, etc...that sort of stuff. Plus he's abroad.

It doesn't mean it is less wrong. A virtual fling with this guy today, a physical affair in real with another, tomorrow...


----------



## arbitrator

*Facebook is a killer! It killed my marriage when my wealthy XW hooked up with two of her old out-of-town BF's without me ever suspecting one damn thing; I was only fortunate enough to finally discover her trysts after numerous months of separation from her, through a thorough examination of her cell phone records as well as her FB posts that had been provided to me!

Come to find out that she had been one busy little skank even while we shared the same bed together more than a year prior to the separation!*


----------



## Working1

redwood60 said:


> f-102 and will I agree. But call me old fashioned I believe in a second chance. We have been good together for 20 years and to throw away all that now just for this one slip up, is in my opinion not a balanced judgment.
> 
> Thats why I actually feel this trip comes at just the right time. She can go away and reflect and decide what to do. If she does the right thing and puts an end to it, fine I will get over it. If she doesn't, fine I have the evidence and divorce will be the result.
> 
> In effect this week will ultimately highlight whether we are still on the same page or not.
> 
> I really must thank this website and all the posters. I would really have had a more difficult confrontation that I actually had. That was down to you all and the amazing amount of advice including how she would react. Fantastic help and support in what is a very difficult time for me.
> 
> I will keep you updated.


EVen if she wants to quit this guy, she will not be able to go cold turkey, w he is surely addicted to the thrill, and at best, if she wants to save her marriage, she will try to wean herself off slowly. If you want to work on your marriage, this will take some time, it will not happen over night.


----------



## F-102

Any updates, RW?


----------



## SaltInWound

arbitrator said:


> *Facebook is a killer! It killed my marriage when my wealthy XW hooked up with two of her old out-of-town BF's without me ever suspecting one damn thing; I was only fortunate enough to finally discover her trysts after numerous months of separation from her, through a thorough examination of her cell phone records as well as her FB posts that had been provided to me!
> 
> Come to find out that she had been one busy little skank even while we shared the same bed together more than a year prior to the separation!*


Facebook is a Narcissist's dream. It allows people to live in a fantasy bubble. They create the fantasy. They control the people who enter. It makes them feel invincible. Facebook is narcissist crack.


----------



## redwood60

We have had a couple of arguments and a couple of really good discussions. She maintains she didn't consider it cheating, isn't looking for someone else and enjoyed giving me the benefits of her chatting.

I said I preferred her to stop and she immediately did. I also said I was happy for her to talk to him as long as it remained completely sex free chatting. I know that may surprise some of you but I wanted to see if I could fully trust her again.

2 days away now where she has had the chance to pick up where she left off and she hasn't yet.

From our discussions I feel the marriage is still strong and hope this really was just a small slip up. I have made it clear though that if it ever happens again were through.

I suppose time will tell but I am quietly confident we will overcome this. I feel I caught this early enough to stamp it out before it got completely outta hand.


----------



## anchorwatch

redwood60 said:


> I said I preferred her to stop and she immediately did. I also said I was happy for her to talk to him as long as it remained completely sex free chatting. I know that may surprise some of you but I wanted to see if I could fully trust her again.
> 
> I suppose time will tell but I am quietly confident we will overcome this. I feel I caught this early enough to stamp it out before it got completely outta hand.


You've got a lot to learn. Guess everyone finds their own way.

Do you really think she gained more attraction to you by giving in and allowing her to stay in contact with a guy who makes her horny? 

At least read this book. Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

Good luck. See you soon.


----------



## Chaparral

You really need to study up on Emotional affairs, distance, including cotinents mean nothing. Your wife doesn't need opposite sex friends that are discussing personal matters at all.

Your wife has cheated. You will now have to verify everything.

We have seen many women leave their husband and children for men they have never met. They will go to other states or countries leaving everyone behind.

Do you seriously think if this dude lived in the next town, he would not be groping those breasts?


----------



## redwood60

interesting comment anchorwatch. I should add that there really is no chance they could ever meet without me knowing. Distance and the internet are wonderful things.

This really was "just" virtual and was the first time anything like this happened in 20 years.

Don't you think she deserves at least some room to manouvre?


----------



## 3putt

redwood60 said:


> interesting comment anchorwatch. I should add that there really is no chance they could ever meet without me knowing. Distance and the internet are wonderful things.
> 
> *This really was "just" virtual* and was the first time anything like this happened in 20 years.
> 
> Don't you think she deserves at least some room to manouvre?


So you're saying you don't mind being "just" virtually cuckolded and then are still okay allowing contact with her "virtual" partner? You really think this is gonna put an end to it?

Whoo boy!


----------



## Chaparral

The Sirley Glass book mentioned above is linked to below.


----------



## Laurel

redwood60 said:


> you are right of course but I do believe 2 wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> anyway I have just worked out the skype password so I will monitor that for a couple of days in order to prepare for the inevitable confrontation.
> 
> I suppose part of my reluctance is also because I know nothing physical can happen here and we have had 20+ good years. I am still coming to terms with what is going on as it is a complete shock.[/QUOTE
> 
> This type of behavior escalates. Sure, she may be messing around with someone who "nothing physical" can happen with right now - but what happens down the road when she meets someone local? And are you really okay with your wife saying and doing inappropriate sexual things with another man even if he can only see and not touch her? It is completely disrespectful to you and your marriage and is a VERY slippery slope.
> 
> Your wife's behavior cannot be ignored or excused. It will only go downhill from here - along with your marriage.


----------



## anchorwatch

Redwood, 

I would not allow any other man to make my wife hot. I''m not a cuckold. My wife respects and expects that from me. My marriage vows don't include alternate lifestyles. 

You really need to do the reads. Read Dr Glass's book. 

Read brother member Athol Kay's book. Here's his blog 
What is the Red Pill? | Married Man Sex Life

See what a marriage looks like. One with habits that don't allow partners to look elsewhere for emotional satisfaction...
His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage : Willard F. Jr. Harley

Inform yourself with the current knowledge Don't take our word for it? Then do the reads and decide for yourself. Be forewarned, this is not a seat of the pants decision, IT'S YOUR MARRIAGE!


----------



## mablenc

redwood60 said:


> We have had a couple of arguments and a couple of really good discussions. She maintains she didn't consider it cheating, isn't looking for someone else and enjoyed giving me the benefits of her chatting.
> 
> *Having sexual conversations with another man is cheating. So she had sex with you after she got horny by him? Thats ok with you?*
> 
> I said I preferred her to stop and she immediately did. I also said I was happy for her to talk to him as long as it remained completely sex free chatting. I know that may surprise some of you but I wanted to see if I could fully trust her again. *You prefer? You are happy if he still talks to her? *
> 
> 2 days away now where she has had the chance to pick up where she left off and she hasn't yet.
> 
> From our discussions I feel the marriage is still strong and hope this really was just a small slip up. I have made it clear though that if it ever happens again were through.
> *She cheated, how can your marriage be strong? *
> I suppose time will tell but I am quietly confident we will overcome this. I feel I caught this early enough to stamp it out before it got completely outta hand.


*Buddy's you didn't stomp on anything. You should have demanded that she stop cheating, no contact, and show her that you are not going to sit back and take it *

Please read this thread
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


----------



## anchorwatch

redwood60 said:


> interesting comment anchorwatch. I should add that there really is no chance they could ever meet without me knowing. Distance and the internet are wonderful things.
> 
> This really was "just" virtual and was the first time anything like this happened in 20 years.
> 
> Don't you think she deserves at least some room to manouvre?


I think she and you deserve better!!! 

Do the reads!


----------



## redwood60

I think some of you may be missing one point. She has in fact stopped and did so immediately.

This next phase, rightly or wrongly on my part is a test.


----------



## walkonmars

Redwood

You're soon going to get sick of "testing" her. You kinda gave her a free pass by "preferring" rather than "insisting" she not speak to him at all. 

In fact you as much as told her to continue the conversations with the interloper who's likely pulling his pud while conversing with your wife. You told her to talk about anything non-sexual. 

Did you define terms? is kissing sexual? petting? clothing? past romances? Is romance sexual? 

See what I mean. 

She needs a man to be her husband right now. Lay down the boundaries - tell her you've reconsidered and don't want her speaking to this dude ever again. ATM she's waiting for a suitable amount of time for you to cool off before resuming - since you gave her the okay to do so. Rescind that.


----------



## anchorwatch

redwood, 

You may think so, but your situation is not unique. Look around this forum, read the books form the experts, listen to the vets. That's what you came here for, isn't it? Knowledge? That's what we're trying to impart. 

The point is that even if she is being truthful, you're allowing her to stay in contact with another man who she had sexual fantasies with. 

The first problem with that is it won't take much of a spark to light that fire again and bring back the dopamine rush, then it starts
allover again. That's what she was getting out of it. Its addictive.

The second is that you displayed a low value of attraction by not having him cut out of your relationship. It tells her you don't care enough to keep intruders away.


----------



## mablenc

redwood60 said:


> I think some of you may be missing one point. She has in fact stopped and did so immediately.
> 
> This next phase, rightly or wrongly on my part is a test.


Do you have a key logger in her computer?


----------



## F-102

redwood60 said:


> interesting comment anchorwatch. I should add that there really is no chance they could ever meet without me knowing. Distance and the internet are wonderful things.
> 
> This really was "just" virtual and was the first time anything like this happened in 20 years.
> 
> Don't you think she deserves at least some room to manouvre?


 Oh, redwood, do you hear that? it's the sound of a million faces getting slapped with a million palms.

"Really no chance"...pleeeeeazzzzze!

What is she gonna do when one day, the OM tells her: "Great news!!! Because of business, I'm going to be in town in two weeks..."

Are you REALLY willing to rely on it being "just virtual"? 

And no-spouses do not "deserve room to manouvre"!


----------



## livinfree

My ex got her thrill of a younger man on the playstation. 

Two years later we're divorced and she left her home, family and children to move across country to live with him.

It happens.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

If she decides to get a burner phone, you'll be regretting that you didn't set good boundaries for her. You've left the door cracked open a little and all it needs now is a breeze to come along...

Yeah, I know, it'll never happen to me.

I said that once upon a time myself.

Good luck.


----------



## redwood60

ok you were all correct. She has already broken one agreement. I asked at the weekend that all messaging and skype contact cease immediately. This morning she has tried to move their chats to messaging. 

I have just spoken to her and asked that everything ceases. She started crying and said we would discuss when she gets back (tomorrow afternoon). 

She is due to give a speech tomorrow morning at this conference. Do I wait until after the speech or do I insist now immediately that it is the marriage or him?


----------



## Mrsmartian

redwood60 said:


> ok you were all correct. She has already broken one agreement. I asked at the weekend that all messaging and skype contact cease immediately. This morning she has tried to move their chats to messaging.
> 
> I have just spoken to her and asked that everything ceases. She started crying and said we would discuss when she gets back (tomorrow afternoon).
> 
> She is due to give a speech tomorrow morning at this conference. Do I wait until after the speech or do I insist now immediately that it is the marriage or him?


Now. You may as well. Waiting until tomorrow is just letting her fob you off. That way she can talk to him tonight and formulate a plan. It gets more intense. For like star crossed lovers. You see?

I will cross my fingers and hope for the best.


----------



## redwood60

I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet. 

Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?


----------



## 3putt

redwood60 said:


> I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet.
> 
> Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?


I don't understand how you can still convince yourself that it will die out naturally after what you have seen unfold right before your own eyes. 

And if you really think they can never meet, well then........

You need to put the hammer down on this now......today......this morning.


----------



## mablenc

People get a high on cheating,their brain chemicals are happy and it's addicting. Which is why the behavior escalates. Nothing is impossible to a cheater on a high. It won't die off it will get worse. She will start looking for some local action when sexting isn't enough. You really need to understand how a cheater thinks. The only way to stop it is by exposing and be willing to end the marraige in order to save it.


----------



## Chaparral

redwood60 said:


> I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet.
> 
> Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?


Haven't seen one die out here by itself. Many think they are worse than a physical affair. You need to prepare, as a matter of fact, that your marriage probably has only about a fifty fifty shot. Some have gone on many years.

Telling her she could talk to him but not sexually was an epic fail. Its a full blown addiction. Treat it as such.


----------



## Philat

redwood60 said:


> I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet.
> 
> Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?


Ain't gonna happen. Might go dormant periodically, but if left unaddressed this kind of EA could literally go on for decades.


----------



## manfromlamancha

redwood60 said:


> I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet.
> 
> Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?


I think you are missing the point and what everyone is trying to tell you. There is something seriously wrong with your marriage and the relationship your wife has with you. She is just a short step away from doing something even more hurtful and you still do not have a clue why, have not taken any real precautions, have not enforced serious consequences and boundaries - all because you believe she cannot meet this particular oddball and also that this will die away!

Sorry for the bluntness but there is more work to be done here. Aren't you at the very least curious about the fact that she appears to either not be able to comply with what you have asked or does not want to ? 

If others are telling you to continue monitoring her, have D papers ready, read the books recommended with her, go to MC and IC (both of you), exercise the 180 to strengthen yourself until desired goals are reached - then this is what you need to do. Or else just protect your finances and D. This will not die away.


----------



## Chaparral

redwood60 said:


> I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet.
> 
> Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?


What sounds strange is your lack of outrage. You all are going to deny yourselves into divorce. The lying has already started by her. You have already started rugsweeping. Your odds of saving your marriage are plummeting.


----------



## redwood60

I am waking up. I am struggling with the fact that it happened so quickly i think.

Appreciate all your advice


----------



## anchorwatch

Redwood, 

Do you hear the alarm in our voices. 

You're still not taking this seriously enough. You haven't even read the other stories about emotional affairs on this site, much less Dr. Glass's site. You're in disbelief that she can do this, that this can happen. You can't even bring yourself to call this an affair, it is. It is an emotional affair. For a woman this is as bad as a physical one. Woman connect emotionally. Marriages are lost to them frequently. She is following a script that happens over and over. IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE. 

Emotional affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

YOU HAVE AN INTRUDER IN YOUR MARRIAGE.

YOUR WIFE HAS LET HIM IN.

SHE IS A JUNKIE HIGH ON PEA CHEMICALS.

Anatomy of an Affair - The Chemistry of Love 

SHE IS EMOTIONALLY ATTACHING TO HIM AND DETACHING FROM YOU. 

LOOK UP EMOTIONAL AFFAIRS. READ DR GLASS'S BOOK AND SITE. Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

ACT NOW!!! NO CONTACT IMMEDIATELY! MC ASAP! 

YOU CAN'T NICE HER OUT OF AN AFFAIR!!!

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


----------



## redwood60

I hear the alarm. Its true I never thought it would happen but that was based upon 20 happy years.

I didn't want to jump to a wrong conclusion but the threat being posed is now becoming very clear

I don't see much point in making her feel uncomfortable for her speech tomorrow. I will hit her full on once its over


----------



## TRy

redwood60 said:


> I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet.
> 
> Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?


 First, they do not have to meet for this to destroy your marriage. She is in an emotional affair (EA). Read "Not Just Friends" today to see how bad this is. She values the brain drug high that this other man (OM) gives her over anything that you do for her romantically. This usually leads to her giving you the "I love you, but I am not in love with you" (ILYBIANILWY) speech one day. If you read this and other sites, you will see that after giving this speech, many then say they are confused and ask for space away from their spouse to sort out their feelings. They use this space to expand their relationship with their affair partner, which often includes traveling to see the affair partner or having the affair partner travel to see them.

Second, once she knows that you know, and that there will be no real consequences from you, she loses respect for you and has no reason to stop. Not only will it not end, but it will expand. Not just with this affair partner, but possibly to other more local men.

Time is not on your side. The odds of saving your marriage go down, the longer that this goes on. You must be willing to end your marraige and mean it, for you to have a chance at saving it long term. You need to demand full no contact with this other man, and you need to demand full transpancy with each other that includes all passwords and and agreement for her not to delete anything from other men until showing it to you first. Let her know that in healthy marriages, that other than when you are on the toilet, there should be no expectation of privacy. It she will let you divorce her rather than agree to the above, then your marraige was over anyways. BTW, once you file for divorce, you can always stop it if she puts forth the effort to earn your trust back. I am sorry that you are here. Be well.


----------



## anchorwatch

You're behind the curve! Take this time to educate yourself on the subject now! Form your plan and execute. Take your time in a hurry!!! 

Be prepared for blow back from her, as she has gone into the rabbit hole. She knows what she's doing , she knows it's wrong, she's hiding it, she's deceiving you, she's hurting you, she's disrespecting you, she doesn't care...all because it makes her fell good. Be strong, steady, but resolved. 

Remember, there are only two in a marriage, not three!

Good luck.


----------



## Philat

redwood60 said:


> I am waking up. I am struggling with the fact that it happened so quickly i think.
> 
> Appreciate all your advice


Yes, it's difficult to process at first. Keep to your current line of thinking and listen to the measured voices of experience on your thread.


----------



## F-102

Confoundit, redwood!!!!!

What is more important to you, your marriage, or her precious speech?


----------



## F-102

And what do you think she is going to be doing at this "conference"? She'll be outta your sight, melting whatever electronic communications device she can in talking to HIM! They'll be formulating new plans to communicate so that you don't find out. She already "agreed" to cease all contact, what is it, TWICE already. And what did you find out? That she is still contacting him!

You seriously need to get your head out of your 6 o'clock and wake up and realize that YOUR WIFE IS CHEATING ON YOU!!!!!!!


----------



## Thorburn

1. Your wife is cheating on you. Plain and simple. A live person, inappropriate words, not your partner = cheating.
2. Confront now. So what, she has a freaken speech. I would demand she comes home, now. This is triggering me big time. My wife did the same stuff in 1999, 2010 and it went PA with other men.
3. All you are doing is delaying everything for what, a conference and a speech. I know this sounds harsh but your wife has stepped over the line big time, is not ending it. And I will say this, you really don't know what has gone on in your Marriage. I doubt that this is anything new.
4. She is disrespecting you big time. The deleting of the texts in front of you. Big red flag and big wad of spit in your face.

I would ask her to come home now and say we will see who is more important in your life.

I know some will say this is unfair, but WTH. You are dealing with a cheating wife who is lying.


----------



## carmen ohio

redwood60 said:


> ok you were all correct. *She has already broken one agreement. I asked at the weekend that all messaging and skype contact cease immediately. This morning she has tried to move their chats to messaging. *
> 
> I have just spoken to her and asked that everything ceases. She started crying and said we would discuss when she gets back (tomorrow afternoon).
> 
> She is due to give a speech tomorrow morning at this conference. Do I wait until after the speech or do I insist now immediately that it is the marriage or him?





redwood60 said:


> I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet.
> 
> *Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?*





redwood60 said:


> I am waking up. *I am struggling with the fact that it happened so quickly* i think.
> 
> Appreciate all your advice


Dear redwood60,

Others have made this point but it bears repeating: if your wayward wife (WW) could go from no relationship with another man to a sexting relationship in such a short time -- and not even believe that she was cheating on you -- how long do you think it would take her to get into a physical affair with a man that she meets locally? Thus, even if she ends her current extramarital relationship, you are on notice that, the next time, she could be having sex with another man before you even know anything is going on.

What you have learned is that (1) your WW is open to having inappropriate relationships with other men, (2) she doesn't believe that this is wrong, (3) she will go to great lengths to hide her extramarital relationships from you (including lying to your face and breaking her promises) and (4) she thinks she can get away with it even after you've caught her lying and cheating (and make no mistake, what she has done is cheat on you).

Your job, therefore, is to let her know that her current affair ends now (meaning no more contact with the OM of any kind) or you will divorce her and, if she ever does anything like this again, you will divorce her. Nothing short of this message is going to save your marriage.

Unfortunately, so far, you have not put your foot down or let her know that any kind of inappropriate relationship with another man is a deal-breaker for you. Instead, you have negotiated with her and given her tacit approval to carry on with another man. What she sees is a husband who doesn't have the b*lls to give her any serious consequences for cheating. She will exploit this (actually, she already has, since she started to SMS him after promising not to) until and unless you make it clear to her that you are prepared to divorce her if she continues to cheat.

You are making the mistake so many betrayed spouses (BS) do when they first discover their WS's infidelity -- failing to force the WS to choose between total loyalty or divorce. If a friend betrayed your trust, you would not tolerate it. Why would you tolerate it from the person who is supposed to be your best friend, whom you have loved and supported for 20 years and who has made a vow not to betray you?

The ball is in your court. You either end this now or be prepared for even more betrayal down the line and, when that happens, it will probably be too late to save your marriage.

Good luck.


----------



## redwood60

is it worth an email to the other party asking him to cease all contact as it is destroying the marriage.

They really will never be together so perhaps it would help if he stopped replying


----------



## Mrsmartian

Redwood, I said "but they've never even met" too. My WH had an online virtual affair for years and years. 

He refused to give her up. They have very intense feelings because its all such a perfect fantasy.

You will hate it if your wife carries on. It will destroy how you see yourself and her. It will taint your life. Eventually, if you let it carry on. You will divorce.


----------



## carmen ohio

redwood60 said:


> is it worth an email to the other party asking him to cease all contact as it is destroying the marriage.
> 
> They really will never be together so perhaps it would help if he stopped replying


No. Begging another man to stop hitting on your WW is an act of weakness. He owes you nothing. You need to deal with your WW. She is the one who promised to be faithful.


----------



## mablenc

Please explain why you think they will never meet?


----------



## azteca1986

redwood60 said:


> I have just spoken to her and asked that everything ceases. She started crying and said we would discuss when she gets back (tomorrow afternoon).


A little point about tears. My five year-old turns on the waterworks when he's caught doing something that he knows is wrong. It is a deflection technique as humans of all ages are skilled manipulators. It is an admission of guilt.

Don't let the (crocodile) tears sway you. You have to make sure your spouse understands her choices have _consequences_.

It is time for the *"It's him or me. Choose now."* speech.


----------



## mablenc

I say, gather more evidence for your sake. You think it's harmless, wait until you find out more. When you see how she laughs behind your back. How in detail she goes with him, how she says things you have never heard her say to you.


----------



## redwood60

you are getting this live folks. Just messaged her that I am on my way to pick her up and she needs to decide now.

HIM OR ME:

( I don't want to mention why they cant meet bit too personal) but believe me they can't without me knowing.


----------



## Thorburn

Deleted my text after seeing you post.

Don't go ape sh*t on her, but be firm.

Him or me is firm.


----------



## Mrsmartian

Stay very very calm. Even when she tries to convince you that you're over reacting. This is from bitter experience. Stick to what YOU want to happen. No bargaining.


----------



## kenmoore14217

redwood60 said:


> you are getting this live folks. Just messaged her that I am on my way to pick her up and she needs to decide now.
> 
> HIM OR ME:
> 
> ( I don't want to mention why they cant meet bit too personal) but believe me they can't without me knowing.


why did you give her a heads up?  Good grief!


----------



## carmen ohio

redwood60 said:


> you are getting this live folks. Just messaged her that I am on my way to pick her up and she *needs to decide now.*
> 
> HIM OR ME:
> 
> ( I don't want to mention why they cant meet bit too personal) but believe me they can't without me knowing.


Dear redwood60,

She'll fight like h*ll to avoid having to make a real choice and to keep her options open. Last time she did this, you backed down. Don't do it again. You only get so many chances. Treat it as if it may be your last.

Good luck.


----------



## 86857

Sorry Redwood - didn't see your post re SMS just now. Tried to delete my post above but didn't work. 
Good luck!


----------



## Thorburn

redwood60 said:


> is it worth an email to the other party asking him to cease all contact as it is destroying the marriage.
> 
> They really will never be together so perhaps it would help if he stopped replying


No email. The problem really is not this dude, the problem is your wife. And you will look pathetic. We don't want you looking pathetic. I was pathetic, and it is not pretty. TAMers understand pathetic and typically most don't like it when a BS goes this route.

No contact from your wife. It means no contact. No goodbyes. I am sure your wife would want to to say goodbye. I would not give her the privilege of doing it. No contact+no goodbyes


----------



## Thorburn

kenmoore14217 said:


> why did you give her a heads up? Good grief!


When we are in the midst of a battle we can lose our perspective. THe BS often times comes from the high moral ground and gives away their plans willingly. They don't think like a WS. They are not covering their arses. They tend to be open books. I was at some points. It is not a good place to be and often times we look back and say, "Man, I wish I would not have done that".

All we can hope is that this works out for the best.

I hope he does not back down and believes the lies that are going to come out of her mouth.


----------



## anchorwatch

Do not show her this site!!!

This is your resource!!!


----------



## Thor

Thorburn said:


> THe BS often times comes from the high moral ground and gives away their plans willingly. They don't think like a WS. They are not covering their arses. They tend to be open books. I was at some points. It is not a good place to be and often times we look back and say, "Man, I wish I would not have done that".


I was the poster boy for that! I tried to lead by example. The problem was a lack of open honesty on her part, so I went overboard with being fully open, speaking my mind without filters.

It cost me my chance to see years of her emails stored in a folder she didn't know about. :banghead:

Good luck today, Redwood.


----------



## F-102

redwood60 said:


> you are getting this live folks. Just messaged her that I am on my way to pick her up and she needs to decide now.
> 
> HIM OR ME:
> 
> ( I don't want to mention why they cant meet bit too personal) but believe me they can't without me knowing.


RW, if it was me, I'd message her again that I decided not to come get her, but that I decided instead to see a D attorney, and am now putting her bags out on the front porch. If she wants to save this marriage, she will come home IMMEDIATELY-conference and speech be damned!

If you go to this conference, she may have security waiting for you.


----------



## Row Jimmy

Redwood

You are doing the right thing. I'm glad the TAM folks were able to help you see how dangerous this is to your marriage and how important it was to crush it ASAP. 

Demanding total transparency at this point is key as having an EA and lying about it should have serious repercussions and she should have to earn your trust again. 

The threat of instant divorce is a real good consequence that snaps some people out of their affair delusions.


----------



## walkonmars

Redwood

NEVER contact the OM. There's nothing you can legally say that won't sound like begging to him. He'll frame your email and crow to all his friends about his prowess - having his gf's husband pleading to leave her alone. 

Even if it doesn't sound like pleading or begging to you it will to him. 

Be firm with your wife but not abusive.


----------



## BlueCalcite

mablenc said:


> Please explain why you think they will never meet?


I can't find the post, but he must have stated somewhere that the OM lives in a place in which all outgoing transportation requires registration of the traveler's destination with the spouse of any persons that the traveler intends to meet at his or her destination.

OP is really quite fortunate.


----------



## Entropy3000

redwood60 said:


> thought about that but confronting her with the evidence highlights that I behaved in an untrustworthy way to. I mean I did it because I was suspicious but nonetheless I have peeked in her account


LOL.

Untrustworthy. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

She is sexting with another man and you are worried about looking untrustworthy.

Ok do not take what I am about to say as a slam on you.

Go get your T level checked. They need to be between 500 and 1000. The highe ron there the better BTW.

I am beiong serious as a heart attack here. This is to ensure your passion is up for keeping your marriage intense AND to ensure that your T levels are up so that you can be assertive.

Worrying about looking untrustworthy when your wife is sexting another man is NOT being an assertive husband.

So yes. Get those levels checked so you can be the guy you need to be.

Your wife is probably in a rise in her sexuality while yours is declining.


----------



## Entropy3000

redwood60 said:


> you are right of course but I do believe 2 wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> anyway I have just worked out the skype password so I will monitor that for a couple of days in order to prepare for the inevitable confrontation.
> 
> I suppose part of my reluctance is also because I know nothing physical can happen here and we have had 20+ good years. I am still coming to terms with what is going on as it is a complete shock.


It is not wrong to protect your marriage. It is wrong for her to be secting.

See the difference.

What is wrong is you feeling this way. Get with the program. What trumps everything is you protecting the marriage.

Are they exchanging photos? Is his virtually touching her because they use a webcam?


----------



## azteca1986

BlueCalcite said:


> I can't find the post, but he must have stated somewhere that the OM lives in a place in which all outgoing transportation requires registration of the traveler's destination with the spouse of any persons that the traveler intends to meet at his or her destination.
> 
> OP is really quite fortunate.


What kind of place would that be, it sounds bizarre? PM me please if it's inappropriate to speculate in the thread.


----------



## walkonmars

So, there's no chance that in a few months your wife will approach you about sponsoring this kid so he can move to the US for a job? What will you do if/when that happens? Will you be emboldened to act then or will you rationalize it some way? 

You're on a treacherous slope and can't see where the bottom is or what's there. We're asking that you get some traction while you can. 

There' a recent post where a wife was in contact with a teen from another country and this was the most likely outcome.


----------



## BlueCalcite

azteca1986 said:


> What kind of place would that be, it sounds bizarre? PM me please if it's inappropriate to speculate in the thread.


I must have forgotten to include the [SARCASM] tag.


----------



## TRy

redwood60 said:


> is it worth an email to the other party asking him to cease all contact as it is destroying the marriage.
> 
> They really will never be together so perhaps it would help if he stopped replying


 Your wife is married to you, agreed to stop, took it deeper underground and continued. The other man does not even know you, so he has no reason to stop. He will either say that this is between your wife and him and that it is none of your business, or he will tell you that he will stop, but continue, while trying harder to hide it. Either way, you telling him to stop because he is "destroying the marriage", will be viewed by him as an ego boosting admission by you that he is winning, and that your wife is now more loyal to him than to you.


----------



## azteca1986

BlueCalcite said:


> I must have forgotten to include the [SARCASM] tag.


Sorry. I thought it was some weird arrangement you have across the pond


----------



## Chaparral

Just tell her you have been researching her emotional/ virtually physical affair. You have found how devastating they are to a marriage and how often they lead to divorce.

She has been getting herself off while the om is doing the same. Its not just emotional.

Do you have the texts? Does she talk to you like that? Why not? Ask her. Does she have cougar fantasies? Ask her how she would feel if you were sexting twenty year old girls. What she is doing is pathetic and immoral.


----------



## 6301

Don't tell her anything except that if she want to continue to be your wife then she has one and only one chance to do it. Don't give her the chance to explain. You already heard her half ass excuse. Lay the law down that if she tries to contact this kid or any other man for what ever reason and you find out then she can kiss the marriage good bye and when you say it.......mean it!


----------



## doubletrouble

Redwood, you have to get ANGRY. I don't see it in your posts. Fear, disappointment, things like that, but where's your ANGER? 

Man up and get mad; this is taking away 20+ years of your LIFE and you are concerned that she might not be on form to make her speech? 

I'm not saying throw things around and shout. I'm talking controlled, focused, CEO-type anger. Dammit man, controlled anger is the only way you're going to nut up enough to take this situation and turn it around. You're afraid to lose the marriage, or hurt her feelings, but haven't realized it's already lost. It's forever changed. And your feelings are being ignored. You are worth more than that. Your dog gives you more than that. 

Trust me, I've been through this, and there's no way you will stop it without seriously threatening to leave her. AND following through if/when she falls off the wagon.

Let her come back from the conference with her sh!t on the porch and a note saying HER actions have caused this. Have a nice tidy divorce paper package in there with the rest of her stuff. She needs a (virtual) 2x4 slapped up against the side of her head; nothing less will wake her up out of her addiction. 

My fWW told me OM was like a drug to her. He was an addiction. If you've ever smoked and tried to quit, or done anything else that was really difficult to stop doing, that's like an addiction. Your W's addiction will crush what's left of your marriage.


----------



## redwood60

well for the time being a happy ending. The messaging was a misunderstanding and she showed me the message. There was no answer to her facebook message informing X no more chatting and that he would be deleted. She messaged to ensure he got it. She didn't want any more problems with me about this.

Keylogger now in place for 30 days and then we will see.

Top advice from the site that helped me spring into action.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Well that's good to hear.

Keep your radar on.

I've got may fingers crossed.

Thanks for the update.


----------



## redwood60

well it lasted until today. message sent on facebook that she has been caught and she told me that she would have no more contact. She also said not to contact her unless she is in online chat because she knows i am reading her mails.

she also said she would try and chat with him this week as I have to work away.

Thing is this. A week on Monday I am going on a 4 week business trip. We are going together. If I make demands now over this new mail she may well stay behind and I don't get back into our home in 4 weeks time.

I can't pull out of the trip. 

What are your thoughts on how best to work this.

Perhaps confront her with it once we are away?


----------



## tom67

redwood60 said:


> well it lasted until today. message sent on facebook that she has been caught and she told me that she would have no more contact. She also said not to contact her unless she is in online chat because she knows i am reading her mails.
> 
> she also said she would try and chat with him this week as I have to work away.
> 
> Thing is this. A week on Monday I am going on a 4 week business trip. We are going together. If I make demands now over this new mail she may well stay behind and I don't get back into our home in 4 weeks time.
> 
> I can't pull out of the trip.
> 
> What are your thoughts on how best to work this.
> 
> Perhaps hit her with it once we are away?


Hit her after yes stay strong.


----------



## redwood60

I should add to my previous post that the business trip is to the other side of the planet. Makes it more difficult for her to return home early.


----------



## Tobyboy

She's going to bail last minute on the trip. If she does, tell her you expect her out of the house before your return. And to not contact you while your gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redwood60

I don't think she will. She has told everyone she can about the trip because it is pretty special. It will be very embarrassing for her if she doesn't go. 

Plus I put all the things in place as suggested here so I have the complete picture of her activities. It wasn't cheap but it was worth it. I actually felt we were making good progress until today.

Plus even if she stays behind the can't meet comment is still valid. She cannot meet the guy.

Thats what makes this so confusing.


----------



## Tobyboy

redwood60 said:


> I don't think she will. She has told everyone she can about the trip because it is pretty special. It will be very embarrassing for her if she doesn't go.
> 
> Plus I put all the things in place as suggested here so I have the complete picture of her activities. It wasn't cheap but it was worth it. I actually felt we were making good progress until today.
> 
> Plus even if she stays behind the can't meet comment is still valid. She cannot meet the guy.
> 
> Thats what makes this so confusing.


You've made clear that they can't meet....but they can sure as hell skype and pleasure themselfs while your on the other side of world. What were the consequences for breaking NC again?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redwood60

divorce. but I am reluctant to start anything with a possible 4 week separation in front of me. To me that is the same as moving out......a mistake


----------



## azteca1986

It's disappointing, but neither unexpected nor unusual. She is addicted to the chemical high the affair gives her. So, she's fallen off the wagon temporarily.

Don't do a thing that would let her know she's still being monitored. If she's tipped off she can take this way underground. 

What is she using to contact him? Will you be able to monitor them when you are away?


----------



## Tobyboy

Awhile back you told her she could still be friends with the kid(nothin sexual)....do you still feel that way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## redwood60

yes i can monitor as she is sticking to facebook. What can I say. I want the marriage to work. I would prefer she gives up the contact sooner rather than later but I suppose I am still being a little too "relaxed" as I know they cannot meet.

That said I am aware that this going on too long may backfire. there are however other circumstances such as this damm trip. to be honest I would have said divorce now but am concerned this leaves me in a weak position by being away


----------



## azteca1986

redwood60 said:


> That said I am aware that this going on too long may backfire. there are however other circumstances such as this damm trip. to be honest I would have said divorce now but am concerned this leaves me in a weak position by being away


An EA is just as damaging to a marriage as a PA, though as men we find a PA an absolute deal-breaker more readily. A relapse on her part was on the cards.

The trip is a reality and I think it can work in your favour if you're still of a mind to end her affair.

You're right, you cannot let this escalate much further. A confrontation when you are away from home, far from the familiar, will serve to destabilise her (and hopefully the affair). 

Do nothing now. We have a week to formulate a plan. You have a week to come to terms with whether you want to stay in this marriage. When you confront it has to be with a clear goal in mind; to divorce or reconcile. There are ways and means of getting this out in the open without hinting to your wife that you already KNOW the answer to your questions.

Would you say your business trip is a romantic destination of any sort?


----------



## redwood60

yes it could be very romantic. It is a trip of a lifetime. work to vacation ratio of 25/75%

You see my dilema.


----------



## azteca1986

I see opportunity. 

The OM is a cosy fantasy in your wife's head. You can get in there and disrupt that.

Possible next step:
As the plane is being backed away from the departure gate, tell your wife that for some silly reason you thought about her affair. That you're glad you've both put it behind you. Hold her hand. Look her in the eye. Tell her you love her and want to use the trip to have a trip of a lifetime where you can both reconnect and focus on what's important - each other. 

Then stick on your earphones and let her stew on that for the rest of the flight. As I say, disrupt the cosy fantasy.


----------



## redwood60

i think she may be being more devious than we imagine.

A week or so ago she went to a concert which I couldn't make. When she came home I lost it for a while and confronted her with some early messages she wrote to this guy. I didn't want to give away that I had access to everything. I told her she should pay more attention to how she deletes mails.

Anyway this is where she repreated that it was over and there was no contact. She also said she didn't want to come home and be confronted in such a manner again in the futrure. I agreed it wouldn't happen again as long as she kept her side of the bargain.

She has been away on business most of this week back tomorrow. I was actually relieved that things had gone so well and she had not made contact.

Now a couple of hours after todays facebook message she calls me up and asks if her coming home is gong to be peaceful. She didn't want a rerun.

Now perhaps she is testing me to see what I really know perhaps not. I suppose this week will tell if she does take up chatting to the guy again while I am away.

If she doesn't, she probably wanted to know what exactly I had
access to.


----------



## Will_Kane

redwood60 said:


> yes it could be very romantic. It is a trip of a lifetime. work to vacation ratio of 25/75%
> 
> You see my dilemma.


Regarding the most recent message, was this the first in either direction since a few weeks ago, or were there others in between? Was it a reply to a message from him?

Assuming it was the first, and she initiated, it certainly is unacceptable. Also, assuming that they could never actually meet, it still is possible for them to fall "in love," for her to be "in love" with this other guy and NOT with you. THAT is the possibility IF you allow continued contact.

Where did you leave off with her when she ended contact three weeks ago? Did you threaten divorce back then if contact resumed, did you say end contact or I will divorce? Or did she just agree to end contact because it was wrong, without being under any threat of action from you? Did she ever admit that what she was doing with this guy was wrong, or did she say she was just ending the communications to appease you, but that it really was no big deal and you shouldn't have been upset to begin with?

As far as the trip, don't let it complicate your decision. Do what you would do as if there was no trip.

Assuming you have not threatened anything such as divorce yet, she voluntarily ended it and gave you her word, and now she has broken her promise, this is what I suggest next:

Tell her that you KNOW she has been in contact with him. Do not say how you know. 

Tell her that it is unacceptable for her to communicate with another male about sexual or romantic subjects. 

Tell her that you can't believe she would throw away 20 years of marriage for some guy she can NEVER meet. 

Tell her that in order for you to continue in the marriage with any sense of trust, that she needs to delete her facebook account. 

IF she does not communicate with the guy further, she can open the facebook back up at some time in the future, minimum three months from now, but for now, she has proven that she can't be trusted. 

Tell her that you cannot control her, you cannot force her, but you CAN control yourself, and YOU GET TO DECIDE WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE AND NOT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU. 

Tell her if she refuses to make you feel secure and re-build your trust, you have to consider whether or not you want to stay in such a marriage.

DO NOT make any threats. You will just back yourself into a corner. If she asks, what will happen if I don't delete my facebook, will you divorce me?, you can answer, "it is something I will consider" but give no definitive answer.

A step to take before filing for divorce might include exposing the messages to family and very close friends and asking them to talk to your wife to influence her to give up this relationship with a young man who she can never meet in order to save her marriage of 20 years. Another step might be to contact the other guy's family and close friends to let them know he is breaking up a 20-year marriage by continuing the communications. Do not tell your wife this is what you might do. If you are going to file for divorce if she resumes contact, it's best not to threaten it and just do it.


----------



## redwood60

it was the first message. It is clear from prevous emails she has fallen in love "with something". I say something because they haven't met but the language used in emails is the language of love.

She did however keep her side of the bargain since the original bust up until now. 

To be honest I can't remember the exact words used but I definately started out saying him and divorce or me and reconciliation. I may have given the impression of a u turn when she said straight away me and cut off contact.

But I have mentioned enough times during out discussions that this behaviour is unacceptable for me in our marriage and if she did it again it would mean divorce.

My mind at the moment wants to initiate divorce in the hope she comes to her senses during the process but this trip in my view is in the way.


----------



## Will_Kane

While you are talking to her about the situation, tell her that you are doing this because you love her and refuse to share her with another man.

Now that she has lied to you about continued contact, bring that up as well. I had written my prior post before you had written your last post.


----------



## redwood60

the big question remains though. Do I remain quiet if possible until during or after the trip or get it all out now in the knowledge that she stays behind and has full access to the house, accounts etc..


----------



## Will_Kane

Ignore the trip. There is you, there is her, and there is other man. Other man has to go. Your wife can go on the trip with you no matter what. If she chooses to stay home and communicate with other man, that is sad, both for her and for you, but that is her choice to make. If she goes on the trip and communicates with him, that is sad, too, but make the best of it and do what you're gonna do when you get back.

I don't see any benefit to not confronting her now. She has reestablished communication. She definitely is going to continue to communicate. Why wait to confront until after she does so again?

Women don't fall in love with something, they fall in love with someone. When it comes to love, people get wacky ideas of soulmates and such, so time, distance, age, etc., do not matter, no matter how unrealistic - or how damaging - it is to real life. Sometimes posters here refer to it as the "Land of Rainbows and Unicorns." It sounds like your wife spends some time there.


----------



## azteca1986

redwood60 said:


> But I have mentioned enough times during out discussions that this behaviour is unacceptable for me in our marriage and if she did it again it would mean divorce.


How did she respond? I get the feeling her immediate cessation of contact was just to fob you off till she could re-initiate. Did she ever use the term 'affair' to describe her relationship with OM?


> My mind at the moment wants to initiate divorce in the hope she comes to her senses during the process but this trip in my view is in the way.


You have to. There has to be real world consequences to her behaviour or you will risk not being a man of your word.

The trip is an inconvenient reality. Do you want her to confess? Or will initiating D be the first time she knows what you know?


----------



## Will_Kane

Confront now, make demands, but don't give any ultimatums or threats. Just tell her what you need her to do - stop communications and delete facebook. Leave your options open. Let her go on the trip with you.

If she won't do what you ask, then you can do what you have to do upon return.


----------



## Will_Kane

Don't give any ultimatums or threats. They are very rarely a good idea and just rob you of options. When the time comes, you just file for divorce, but don't threaten it beforehand.

First step is to confront and tell her once again to stop and this time add that facebook must be deleted. If she continues to communicate with him, next step might be exposure to close family and friends. Without warning. If communications still continue, next step might be filing for divorce. Again without warning.

You are behaving the way you are because you love her and want to save the marriage, so make sure she knows that. You want to be the sole object of her romantic and sexual love and desire, not some internet boy.


----------



## Will_Kane

redwood60 said:


> the big question remains though. Do I remain quiet if possible until during or after the trip or get it all out now in the knowledge that she stays behind and has full access to the house, accounts etc..


Are you really afraid she is going to rob you blind if you confront before you go on this trip? Do you think she is going to file for divorce? It doesn't sound that way to me, it sounds like she just wants to have this internet boy on the side, not like she is ready to divorce.

It probably would not hurt to see an attorney for a consultation just to find out what the possibilities are while you are having marital problems before you file for divorce and if there is anything you should do to protect yourself now, especially if you think her trying to clean you out is a reasonable possibility.


----------



## redwood60

I am not concerned about being robbed, I don't believe that will happen. I am concerned about bringing this latest one up because it gives away that I have facebook access to her account.

What that means in real terms is that from today if I mention this I will no longer have access and will no longer know what is going on. She will go straight to a computer expert and I am sunk.

As long as I know what is going on I can wait for the right opportunity and spring the trap.

She wil also go very stubborn once this comes out and will refuse the trip and stick to it. I just feel that if we are to have any chance of saving this now separation is not a good idea.


----------



## Chaparral

She made her choice, she picked him. Tell her now you really want he to pick you and go on the trip, otherwise she can spend her time you're gone getting everything ready for divorce and she can have all the time she needs having perverted sex with a boy and a computer.

Unfortunately, every minute she is working herself up to the big moment they will be "together again".

You are just putting off the inevitable, he who delays, loses. The only thing that may work is tough love. They have already made you the enemy. You have to realize the odds have been against you. She IS in love with someone else as ridiculous as this situation is. Her deceit and betrayal prove that. She is as addicted as a crack ho.

Good luck


----------



## Chaparral

redwood60 said:


> I am not concerned about being robbed, I don't believe that will happen. I am concerned about bringing this latest one up because it gives away that I have facebook access to her account.
> 
> What that means in real terms is that from today if I mention this I will no longer have access and will no longer know what is going on. She will go straight to a computer expert and I am sunk.
> 
> As long as I know what is going on I can wait for the right opportunity and spring the trap.
> 
> She wil also go very stubborn once this comes out and will refuse the trip and stick to it. I just feel that if we are to have any chance of saving this now separation is not a good idea.



If she cuts off access, and will not stay 100% transparent with passwords etc. that IS her answer. You are just another guy to her.


----------



## Will_Kane

Well, whatever you are going to do can wait until after the trip. But there are risks.

The problem is, the longer the affair lasts, the harder it is to save the marriage. Right now, she may believe she loves you AND him. At some point in the not-too-distant future, she may believe that she no longer loves you, only him. Then, even if the affair ends, she still doesn't feel she loves you and is willing to give up the marriage.

Locking down the computer is the same as telling you "I REFUSE TO END THE AFFAIR." You have caught her in the affair, asked her to stop, she agreed, now she has started it up again. What other trap are you going to spring? She has already fallen into the trap, the trap has been sprung, and you have caught her.

Any delay on your part now is just out of fear of her being to STUBBORN to quit the affair. Let's not kid ourselves here. There are four possible outcomes:

1. She ends the affair, you stay married.

2. She refuses to end the affair, you divorce.

3. She refuses to end the affair, you stay married anyway.

4. She ends the affair, you divorce anyway.

Numbers one or two are the likely outcomes. How much trouble to get to outcome number 1 - end affair, stay married - is yet to be seen.

She is cheating on you and you should refuse to accept it. If she chooses to be "STUBBORN" and lock her computer with a computer expert, she is throwing away 20 years of marriage to you, but that is her choice to make. 

If you don't confront now, it seems to me that the reason you don't confront now is out of fear that she will choose him over you. If you were confident she would give up this guy and choose you, you would confront in a hearbeat. But you believe she will not do this, and thus you are waiting, hoping something will change. I believe things only will get worse by waiting, not better.


----------



## azteca1986

Redwood60, Will_Kane is one of the best and most insightful posters on TAM, so take the rest of my post under advisement.

I just can't see what strategic objectives will be met by confronting now. That you must initiate divorce is, I think, now a given. You set your boundary. She willingly crossed it. You have to stick to your word. There have to be consequences. She has to know you are serious and what she is doing is serious and unacceptable.

I would confront on the trip. Do not give her a chance to stay and be away from you for a month. If you confront now, who knows what she will do. The pull of her fantasy life is strong. She can't be trusted to 'do the right thing' band act rationally. That's not where her head is at. If when confronted she decides to go home you will still have time to expose her; to let people know that she really is choosing an internet affair over her husband and her marriage. It sounds ludicrous, but it happens.

My advice is confront on the trip, totally out of the blue. Then expose and initiate divorce when you get back. It won't hurt to see a lawyer before you leave.


----------



## redwood60

thanks for the comments. it is a tough one.

I have asked 2 or 3 times if she would prefer to divorce. She instantly replied no on each occasion. She has refused to unlock her computers stating that she will only do that in the company of a marriage councillor.

She point blank refuses to accept that this is an affair stating that she will only accept that if the marriage concillor says so.

I suppose you could read whatever you want into those comments.
This may sound strange but in some ways I want a final vacation together and then split if she refuses to unlock all computers and stop the contact.

I am still devastated that this has happened and have suddenly realised that part of me does not care if we remain married. Perhaps that my emotional roller coaster kicking in I don't know.
I just know the more I think about the last mail the more I want the marriage to end.


----------



## azteca1986

redwood60 said:


> She point blank refuses to accept that this is an affair stating that she will only accept that if the marriage concillor says so.


I guessed as much. She should read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. I believe it might change her mind on the matter. 



> This may sound strange but in some ways I want a final vacation together and then split if she refuses to unlock all computers and stop the contact.


I can understand that.



> I am still devastated that this has happened and have suddenly realised that part of me does not care if we remain married. Perhaps that my emotional roller coaster kicking in I don't know.
> I just know the more I think about the last mail the more I want the marriage to end.


At least you know the present situation has to come to an end sooner or later. 

Both Will_Kane and Chapparal are both far more knowledgeable than I on these things. Perhaps it's better to confront now, get everything out in the open, tell her your intention to divorce as she's having an affair and then have that trip as your 'last hurrah'?


----------



## Will_Kane

redwood60 said:


> Need advice. Wife very secretive about facebook/sms. I followed her recently on facebook and she is having a sort of affair. It is very light, mildly explicit with a guy half her age. Just some general hugs and kisses and yes you can touch my breasts (virtual) type thing. They have never met.
> 
> It has been going on for about 6 weeks now. SINCE ABOUT SEPT. 1.
> 
> I asked her direct and she denied the facebook activity.
> 
> unfortunately I don't have the password.
> 
> 48 me, 46 wife, *24 him*, 22 years happily married.
> 
> He is single and still a virgin. Lives abroad so meet extremely unlikely without me knowing. However I have just seen a facebook comment that they are intending to move across to skype.
> 
> I suppose part of my reluctance is also because I know nothing physical can happen here and we have had 20+ good years. I am still coming to terms with what is going on as it is a complete shock.
> ___________
> 
> she made an effort last night to go through her facebook account in front of me. It was interesting because she highlighted almost everything except the one I would really like to see.
> 
> I showed only little interest and carried on reading. She obviously starting chatting to him lying next to me in bed.
> 
> I went to sleep and woke up after a couple of hours so went to check her account. She had been chatting to the guy. She wrote: Sorry wasn't able to chat etc. etc. maybe tomorrow. *Hugs and kisses in a nightie.*
> 
> On rechecking some of the posting times she is chatting while I am around but usually waits until I shower or go get something from a store.
> 
> Facebook is open almost all the time she is online. Its as though she wants to get caught.
> _____________
> 
> developments: I confronted her this morning that she was being secretive and behaving strange. I specifically asked to see all chats between her and X. She asked why X and I replied because he is a name I don't know.
> 
> She said OK and *starting crying *about how I don't trust her and *threatened to leave*. I said just go or open the chat. *She did open the chat and deleted it before my very eyes.*
> 
> *I managed to see the hugs and kisses in a nightie bit and latched onto that.*
> 
> She admitted she felt turned on that someone half her age was prepared to write sexually/romantically with her.
> 
> I said if her behavior continued I would want full access to her account and would consult a divorce lawyer. She said she was sorry and would stop.
> 
> BUT:::::::::: as I have seen all her chats *I know she is still lying about some aspects of this. She denies SMS him, I know she has.*
> 
> *I have due to the lies decided to divorce her if she does not now stop with this.*
> ____________________
> 
> We have had a couple of arguments and a couple of really good discussions.
> 
> I said I preferred her to stop and she immediately did. I also said I was happy for her to talk to him as long as it remained completely sex free chatting.
> 
> 2 days away now where she has had the chance to pick up where she left off and she hasn't yet.
> 
> *I feel I caught this early enough to stamp it out before it got completely outta hand.*
> ______________
> 
> I think some of you may be missing one point. She has in fact stopped and did so immediately.
> _______________
> 
> *ok you were all correct.* She has already broken one agreement. I asked at the weekend that all messaging and skype contact cease immediately. This morning she has tried to move their chats to messaging.
> 
> I have just spoken to her and asked that everything ceases. *She started crying* and said we would discuss when she gets back (tomorrow afternoon).
> __________________
> 
> I know this is going to sound strange but they can really never meet.
> 
> Based on that are you still convinced its not better to let it die out naturally?
> ___________________
> 
> I am waking up. I am struggling with the fact that it happened so quickly i think.
> __________________
> 
> I hear the alarm. Its true I never thought it would happen but that was based upon 20 happy years.
> 
> I didn't want to jump to a wrong conclusion but the threat being posed is now becoming very clear
> 
> *I don't see much point in making her feel uncomfortable for her speech tomorrow.* I will hit her full on once its over
> ___________________
> 
> is it worth an email to the other party asking him to cease all contact as it is destroying the marriage.
> 
> They really will never be together so perhaps it would help if he stopped replying.
> ____________________
> 
> Just messaged her that I am on my way to pick her up and she needs to decide now.
> 
> HIM OR ME:
> 
> ( I don't want to mention why they cant meet bit too personal) but believe me they can't *without me knowing*
> ____________________
> 
> well it lasted until today. *message sent on facebook that she has been caught and she told me that she would have no more contact. She also said not to contact her unless she is in online chat because she knows i am reading her mails.
> 
> she also said she would try and chat with him this week as I have to work away.*
> 
> Thing is this. A week on Monday I am going on a 4 week business trip. We are going together. If I make demands now over this new mail she may well stay behind and I don't get back into our home in 4 weeks time.
> 
> I can't pull out of the trip.
> 
> What are your thoughts on how best to work this.
> 
> Perhaps confront her with it once we are away?
> __________________
> 
> i think she may be being more devious than we imagine.
> 
> A week or so ago I lost it for a while and confronted her with some early messages she wrote to this guy.
> 
> Anyway this is where she repeated that it was over and there was no contact. She also said she didn't want to come home and be confronted in such a manner again in the future. I agreed it wouldn't happen again as long as she kept her side of the bargain.
> 
> she repreated that it was over and there was no contact.
> 
> Now a couple of hours after todays facebook message she calls me up and asks if her coming home is gong to be peaceful. She didn't want a rerun.
> 
> Now perhaps she is testing me to see what I really know perhaps not. If she doesn't, she probably wanted to know what exactly I had access to.
> _________________
> 
> I am concerned about bringing this latest one up because it gives away that I have facebook access to her account.
> 
> What that means in real terms is that from today if I mention this I will no longer have access and will no longer know what is going on. She will go straight to a computer expert and I am sunk.
> 
> As long as I know what is going on I can wait for the right opportunity and spring the trap.
> 
> She will also go very stubborn once this comes out and will refuse the trip and stick to it. I just feel that if we are to have any chance of saving this now separation is not a good idea.
> ______________
> 
> I have asked 2 or 3 times if she would prefer to divorce. She instantly replied no on each occasion. *She has refused to unlock her computers stating that she will only do that in the company of a marriage councillor*.
> 
> She point blank refuses to accept that this is an affair stating that she will only accept that if the marriage councillor says so.
> 
> This may sound strange but in some ways I want a final vacation together and then split if she refuses to unlock all computers and stop the contact.
> 
> I am still devastated that this has happened and have suddenly realised that part of me does not care if we remain married. Perhaps that my emotional roller coaster kicking in I don't know.
> I just know the more I think about the last mail the more I want the marriage to end.


He is 24. Not so young that your wife cannot believe that some day she could not meet up with him and have a life with him. In her mind, this is likely a real possibility for the future. When they do meet, in her mind, she will be DONE with you and WITH HIM. She will not care at that point if you know she is meeting him or not. In the meantime, she will make do with you.

Refusal to give you access to the computer and accounts is the same as telling you she is continuing the affair and it is SECRET from you. Even though she says there is nothing wrong, she refuses to let you see it. She knows it is wrong, she knows it is unfaithful and HURTFUL to you.

Notice how she has CRIED every single time you tried to get her to end it.

I think next she tells you "I love you but I am not 'in love' with you." Then she leaves you anyway, to find true love, whether it be with internet man or someone else.

Redwood, look at the other threads here. Yours is a common story. You first posted here October 12 or so, it is now November 10, and you are in the EXACT SAME POSITION. We see this play out exactly like this over and over and over. Whatever you are going to do now, you could have done then, and you would have had a better chance at a favorable result.

The longer you wait, the worse your chances.


----------



## Thor

redwood60 said:


> She has refused to unlock her computers stating that she will only do that in the company of a marriage councillor.
> 
> She point blank refuses to accept that this is an affair stating that she will only accept that if the marriage concillor says so.
> 
> I suppose you could read whatever you want into those comments.
> This may sound strange but in some ways I want a final vacation together and then split if she refuses to unlock all computers and stop the contact.


Redwood, what spy tech do you have in place. You stated a keylogger. How about cell phone tracking and text messages? Do you have access to more than just her Facebook on the computer?

I am wondering if she has had more contact than you know about.

As to her comments and such in your post above. I think you have the full right to your own position regardless of what she says. That is, she can say she will only accept it is an affair if a marriage therapist says so. Well, tough titties for her, you believe it is an affair. And I would proceed on that basis.

"Honey, I consider what you have done to be an affair. You may not think it was a transgression, but I feel it to the core of my heart that you have betrayed our marriage".

And, you have the right to set boundaries around your marriage. She may not agree with them, and then she has a choice to make. You have touched on this territory already with the him or me ultimatum.

You have the right to open access to all of her communications. The only exceptions I can think of would be private therapy sessions or conversations with her priest. Otherwise there is no place for secrecy in a marriage.

She may be just a stubborn mule and so she is refusing to give you access to her computers. I think a one time only explanation from you would be acceptable, along the lines of she has the right to refuse you access to her computers/phone/email/text messaging, but you will assume the worst case is true due to the fact she has already engaged in betrayal using her electronics.

I think the trip is a valid consideration on whether you want to wait. The biggest risk I see if you wait to confront her is that she gives you some hot sex and you two have a good time in these exotic places. You'll lose your focus and determination. You'll let this transgression be forgotten.

However it is a real solid rule to never reveal your source of intel. So if you confront before the trip you will have to have a good cover story for how you know about the message.

She crossed your boundary. I think you are obligated to file. It may be what shocks her to reality, so it may be a good thing for your marriage in the long run.


----------



## redwood60

i am going to do the following.

I am going to tell her that I want us to go on this trip and have a good time however I am filing for divorce.

I am filing for divorce because I can no longer trust her and because of her refusal to open up her computers and accounts.
So she is obviously hiding something.

She can stop this by ending all contact and opening up everythng.

If she still refuses to open up I will hold back on yesterdays mail and try to get something more meaty this week. I will then wait until we are having a really good day on vacation and raise the full issue, no holds bar and more or less end the marriage on the spot.

This also serves another purpose about money. Due to the amount of free time this trip will cost a fortune. I feel I leave myself open to some wicked attorney if I go alone. 50/50 right to the end.


----------



## Thound

You can bet if she opened up her computer for you it will already be wiped clean.


----------



## harrybrown

Ask her how would she feel if you had an affair?

File for divorce and do not take her on the trip.

Let her have the young man. How long will that last? 

Go NC on her. Do the 180. She does not respect you.

Respect yourself. You can not trust her. I also hope you have a VAR in place.


----------



## daggeredheart

Let her have avatar lover. Fastest way to end the affair.........let her go. 

Triangles are what keeps affairs alive especially virtual ones. They "need" the resistance of the betrayed spouse to fan the flames but once YOU refuse your role in this drama it will quickly die out. 

I was in the same shoes. Spouse said he "couldn't " stop chatting with avatar...kicked him out. Amazing how fast his virtual affair imploded...4 days. Like in your situation, it would have been hard for them to meet as she was in the Middle East and they also had a rather large age difference.

You can spend your energy /trip trying to convince her you are the better buy or you can boot her down the road and let her try and get warm cuddles from wires and a monitor and see how quick reality bites. 


IMHO thinking your in love with a virtual person is the same as holding a banana to your ear swearing it's a iPhone 5c.


----------



## Chaparral

I don't think you should immediately bring up divorce again unless you are deadly serious. What I would do is hold both of her hands, maybe sitting down, tell her how much you love her, tell her how much you have been looking forward to your long romantic trip and then you find that what she is looking forward to is getting back on the computer, hooking up with posom and jacking off to a picture on a computer screen. Tell you know all about it. If she doesn't fold her cards and come clean, take care of protecting your self financially. 

Take her off any credit cards, take at least half of any money out of existing accts and file. Offer to buy her a one way ticket to posom.

Tough love worked for me , I think there is a good chance it will work for you. Her choicce is. Between a man and a boy, better you find out now who she really is.

Either way she goes should make your vacation much more fun, married or single. The one last vacation/fling thing is awful, I can testify it ain't a vacation, its a wake.


----------



## redwood60

thanks chapparal I will think about that.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of screwing the hell out of her and then on the return flight give her the letter from my attorney.

I know that would send her ballastic. She will be home in a few hours and to be honest I don't know whether I can play cool or not.

I am very much in divorce mode at the moment but accept I may swing emotionally the other way even at my age. You know she will even initiate sex once shes home. I don't know how she does it.


----------



## Chaparral

redwood60 said:


> thanks chapparal I will think about that.
> 
> Actually I was thinking more along the lines of screwing the hell out of her and then on the return flight give her the letter from my attorney.
> 
> I know that would send her ballastic. She will be home in a few hours and to be honest I don't know whether I can play cool or not.
> 
> I am very much in divorce mode at the moment but accept I may swing emotionally the other way even at my age. You know she will even initiate sex once shes home. I don't know how she does it.


Another tactic would be go dark or 180 and when she gets it that something is wrong and asks about it, ask her if she doesn't have something to tell you. If she spills the beans fine, if she has nothing go back to being dark or the 180.

Remember, the 180 has to be followed strictly. It is not a reconciliation tool though it sometimes shakes the ww out of the fog. It is a tool to move on in your life. Hopefully, its immediate effect would be to clue her in that she's busted but with out giving away your sources.


----------



## Chaparral

The Healing Heart: The 180

this is a link to the 180, it is copyrighted and cannot be posted here on threat of death.


----------



## redwood60

I think I have a bigger problem. I have just been snooping around her facebook account and she has made herself into a right little hero.

She has been claiming illness when she was fine not just an illness but cancer. She has been building up friends by describing business trips I have made as her own trying to make herself look very very important.

Comments such as my god you are busy, always travelling, always interesting what you do, how do you do? My you are such a lucky person.

She has become completely narcistic.

Time to get rid of me thinks.


----------



## Chaparral

Google how to retrieve deleted google chats and messages. They mayhave changed it but you used to be able to recover them according to posters here.


----------



## Chaparral

redwood60 said:


> I think I have a bigger problem. I have just been snooping around her facebook account and she has made herself into a right little hero.
> 
> She has been claiming illness when she was fine not just an illness but cancer. She has been building up friends by describing business trips I have made as her own trying to make herself look very very important.
> 
> Comments such as my god you are busy, always travelling, always interesting what you do, how do you do? My you are such a lucky person.
> 
> She has become completely narcistic.
> 
> Time to get rid of me thinks.


Is lying like that part o narcissim?. You need expert advice on this one. Is this fantasy or delusion?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Redwood,

It sounds like she has

started going through some kind of (midlife ?) crisis
become narcissistic as you have said
FALLEN OUT OF LOVE WITH YOU
decided she doesn't want to leave the comfort of home while you are still providing home, holidays, travel and sex while OM is not available physically (which could change once she moves on to another OM)

The chatting is giving her a thrill/buzz that she now craves and like most drugs, soon she will want more. I believe your willingness to divorce her may snap her out of this. However you need to not only end this behaviour but also try and get down to why it happened (even if it is only for your closure). Hence the threat of divorce, exposure and healing & protecting yourself is in order. Good luck!


----------



## walkonmars

redwood60 said:


> I think I have a bigger problem. I have just been snooping around her facebook account and she has made herself into a right little hero.
> 
> She has been claiming illness when she was fine not just an illness but cancer. She has been building up friends by describing business trips I have made as her own trying to make herself look very very important.
> 
> Comments such as my god you are busy, always travelling, always interesting what you do, how do you do? My you are such a lucky person.
> 
> She has become completely narcistic.
> 
> 
> 
> Time to get rid of me thinks.


Is there a history of mental illness in her family? 

Regardless of R or D, you should arrange for her to have a mental health evaluation. I know you can't force her, but if she decides to 'pick you' you should make this part of the musts.


----------



## Daisy10

lol 

She has you wrapped around her little finger.


----------



## redwood60

interesting and different statement daisy. Why do you say that?


----------



## Chaparral

It sounds like the other man is somewhere he can't leave. If its what I'm thinking he has many women and men like your wife.


----------



## alte Dame

Chaparral said:


> It sounds like the other man is somewhere he can't leave. If its what I'm thinking he has many women and men like your wife.


That's what I was thinking.


----------



## F-102

Chaparral said:


> It sounds like the other man is somewhere he can't leave. If its what I'm thinking he has many women and men like your wife.


He wouldn't be a prison pen pal, would he?


----------



## Thor

There is no way to know any truth about who he is or where he is. OP's wife has a whole fantasy built up around someone who could be a total fraud. Sad.


----------



## redwood60

I have left it a while to update to avoid postings of she will do this, she will do that.

This is what has happened.

Something snapped during the trip and I packed my stuff and left the hotel while she was out in town. I was heading for the airport when a business pal called to suggest a celebratory drink due to a successful trip. I met up with him. She called in panic and apologised for everything. She persuaded me to go back to the hotel and we would get over this. That was back in November.

Since then I have monitored absolutely everything and she has stopped everything, been as good as gold except for one thing. She has befriended a single parent family on fb, again she can never meet with them/him, as they are the other side of the world, but she tells stories. Its not sexual or anything like that but pure fantasyland. 

She seems to get a kick from them saying wow what a woman you are although the stories are bull****. 

We have come a long way since I first posted but I just can't ignore this remaining item. The issue I have with it, is that I do not appear anywhere in her facebook life. I do not exist.

She also sleeps with her cell phone and it never leaves her side although I have managed to check and it is sms's from the single parent father but absolutely platonic. Still its wrong.

Now for me to question her on it shows I have access to everything. So what to do?

I was thinking about questioning her on the cell phone never leaving her side and insisting on her posting a photo of us together on facebook that everyone can see. This would of course burst the fantasy bubble. 

I could email the single family but then this would give away how much access I have.

Any idea's or suggestions.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

redwood60 said:


> I have left it a while to update to avoid postings of she will do this, she will do that.
> 
> This is what has happened.
> 
> Something snapped during the trip and I packed my stuff and left the hotel while she was out in town. I was heading for the airport when a business pal called to suggest a celebratory drink due to a successful trip. I met up with him. She called in panic and apologised for everything. She persuaded me to go back to the hotel and we would get over this. That was back in November.
> 
> Since then I have monitored absolutely everything and she has stopped everything, been as good as gold except for one thing. She has befriended a single parent family on fb, again she can never meet with them/him, as they are the other side of the world, but she tells stories. Its not sexual or anything like that but pure fantasyland.
> 
> She seems to get a kick from them saying wow what a woman you are although the stories are bull****.
> 
> We have come a long way since I first posted but I just can't ignore this remaining item. The issue I have with it, is that I do not appear anywhere in her facebook life. I do not exist.
> 
> She also sleeps with her cell phone and it never leaves her side although I have managed to check and it is sms's from the single parent father but absolutely platonic. Still its wrong.
> 
> Now for me to question her on it shows I have access to everything. So what to do?
> 
> *I was thinking about questioning her on the cell phone never leaving her side and insisting on her posting a photo of us together on facebook that everyone can see. This would of course burst the fantasy bubble. *I could email the single family but then this would give away how much access I have.
> 
> Any idea's or suggestions.


Do you have acces to her cell phone bill? If so, are there any strange phone numbers on there?

She was scared because she knew you were about to leave her. She was sorry enough to get you to come back. Now that you've been back for a while...

Tonight, grab her phone and DEMAND she give you here pass code. Id she won't, you have your answer. Tell her, pass code, or divorce papers. She probably deletes her texts, but look for a womans name that you don't recognize. That's probably the OM's number.

I'm sorry, but I don't think she was truely sorry for what she had done. And it seems she's already back at it again.


----------



## Philat

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't think she was truely sorry for what she had done.* And it seems she's already back at it again.*


:iagree: The fire wasn't totally out, and she's fanning the embers with this new "friend." Kill it.


----------



## redwood60

I know this seems hard to grasp but this isn't a sexual thing. I actually think she is mentally ill. She appears to have an unhealthy need to talk absolute bull****.

The phone bills are normal and there are no telephone calls its all texts but even then not excessive, not even every day. Sometimes he takes over a week to reply to emails and never sexual. Even the text messages on the phone are platonic.

Its weird.


----------



## F-102

She tends to go for these long-long distance things because she can have her fantasy where she can nurture these people and get praise from them for being so "perfect". She knows that she will not get that in real life because, well, it's "real life".

And, she also thinks that it's safe because of the distances involved. What happens one day if she gets a call or text, and it's from one of these people, and he says; "Hey, guess what? I just happen to be in your town this weekend, why don't we meet for coffee?"

Then it's really Howdy Doody Time!


----------



## redwood60

Hi F-102 I think you maybe right. But any thoughts on how to deal with this?

Direct confrontation will only have limited success. What about the facebook picture idea. This will cause her problems as she will know instantly that to do it will destroy the fantasy bubble.

In effect I am saying stop or I leave without saying it direct..

As a reminder I should add that nothing physical has taken place. It is all virtual, always long distance. We have come a long way since my firsts posts in many ways I haven't mentioned here Therefore I am looking to keep the positive momentum and its just this final item that needs shutting down.


----------



## LongWalk

redwood60 said:


> I know this seems hard to grasp but this isn't a sexual thing. I actually think she is mentally ill. She appears to have an unhealthy need to talk absolute bull****.
> 
> The phone bills are normal and there are no telephone calls its all texts but even then not excessive, not even every day. Sometimes he takes over a week to reply to emails and never sexual. Even the text messages on the phone are platonic.
> 
> Its weird.


It is good that you are willing to examine her behavior from 50,000ft and see that she is not well. Telling people lies... well, everybody describes themselves in a favorable light in unimportant casual socializing, but to create stories that are so false, it means you are married to a fabulist.

Her behavior is perhaps not a rejection of you at all but of real life. She is playing an escapist game. This would be intolerable, unless you treat it a psychological flaw or condition. In that case you accept it as something you are trying to help her overcome.

My D18 used to spend hour upon hour reading Pride and Prejudice fan fiction: young women writing new stories about the characters. So it is human to want to create stories. However, about oneself it is not socially acceptable. She needs to see a psychologist.


----------



## Philat

redwood60 said:


> I know this seems hard to grasp but this isn't a sexual thing. I actually think she is mentally ill. She appears to have an unhealthy need to talk absolute bull****.
> 
> The phone bills are normal and there are no telephone calls its all texts but even then not excessive, not even every day. Sometimes he takes over a week to reply to emails and never sexual. Even the text messages on the phone are platonic.
> 
> Its weird.


It doesn't have to be sexual to have an adverse effect on your relationship, as you point out.


----------



## redwood60

no absolutely. I just wanted to highlight however that it doesn't necessarily always revolve around sex. Of course the situation is still damaging otherwise I wouldn't be posting here.

As longwalk said



> This would be intolerable, unless you treat it a psychological flaw or condition. In that case you accept it as something you are trying to help her overcome.


It is becoming intolerable and I am beginning to run short on patience. That is the issue.


----------



## F-102

redwood60 said:


> Hi F-102 I think you maybe right. But any thoughts on how to deal with this?
> 
> Direct confrontation will only have limited success. What about the facebook picture idea. This will cause her problems as she will know instantly that to do it will destroy the fantasy bubble.
> 
> In effect I am saying stop or I leave without saying it direct..
> 
> As a reminder I should add that nothing physical has taken place. It is all virtual, always long distance. We have come a long way since my firsts posts in many ways I haven't mentioned here Therefore I am looking to keep the positive momentum and its just this final item that needs shutting down.


How to deal with this? Simple: demand that she see a psychiatrist to find out why she is such a pathological liar.

Seriously, you're worried about destroying her fantasy? C'mon, bud.


----------



## redwood60

> Seriously, you're worried about destroying her fantasy? C'mon, bud


Not at all. But constantly threatening divorce doesn't work either unless you are prepared to go through with it. I was prepared to go through with it during the business trip last year and her response recharged my patience levels.

Today patience is becoming short but the circumstances have changed as I believe she is ill. Therefore I consider that in this case, at this time, a more subtle approach may just do the trick.

I need to burst the fantasy bubble without her suspecting that I have complete access to her online world and cell phone. I see less reason for urgency as there is no PA going on and currently there is no sexually orientated EA going on. 

Assuming things stay that way its my patience and tolerance that are going to give first. So I have time to be more tactical is what I am saying


----------



## Thor

Are you two in MC? I think you could use MC productively in many ways. One is to discuss how her past actions affected you. Another is for you to have a private session with the MC (a common thing to do) and tell him/her all the stuff you know is currently going on. Perhaps the MC can encourage her to see an IC. Or, the MC may give you some solid professional opinion that this is not changeable in her.

You cannot force her to go to IC nor to change. She has to be convinced of it herself.

The other aspect is that I think this is not something which can be permanently fixed by nuking her current activities. This does seem like some sort of mental illness rather than as a bad choice which went too far. Some cheaters who get into an EA can break out of the fog and return to their former self. Your wife, though, has a former self which includes some kind of mental issue. Thus, there is no fog for her. Whether it is chemical or wiring or what she learned growing up, this seems to be how she is.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Sorry, she shouldn't be chatting with a single guy about anything, sex, news, sports, politics, or weather. Especially after last fall.

Do you have a Facebook account? Post a great picture of the two of you, tag her in it. Then it will show up on her page too. If it does not automatically go on her page, she has the settings set to approval, so she has to approve it before it will post. A good loyal wife should have no problems posting a lovely family picture on her page.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## redwood60

Thanks thor and philly. I agree with both of you. Nuking won't necessarily stop it and I believe it won't.

The facebook picture was also on my thoughts although I was thinking more of forcing her to post it but I like your idea better philly.

She has had issues with her mom all her life and has always felt second rate compared to another sibling. This I believe is the root cause.

Thats why dealing with this is so difficult. Since the business trip bust up, she has really been trying hard to be the perfect wife.


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## F-102

But with this new "friend" (and repeating behavior that caused the bust up in the first place), is she trying hard enough?

What happens if she finds a new "friend", one that knows all the right things to say to her?


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## redwood60

well it all kicked off today. Can't explain why I just snapped. Denials etc. just as predicted on TAM. I said I want a photo of us online with a happy couple type comment.

I had to go out for a couple of hours and came back to find that she had blocked me completely from seeing anything of her online account. I said unblock now, she said not necessary the only thing I am doing is contacting a lawyer to end the marriage.

I responded with at last, you took long enough. The bank account will be blocked immediately and I am posting all your online texting.

Tears flowed, she apologised, she asked me which photo I wanted posting online and did it immediately. I suppose now the real work begins. I made it quite clear I have had enough and she has one life left and she needs to decide what to do with that chance.

I immediately got all her passwords. I am not sure whether we will survive as I am 100% convinced she is ill and without seeking treatment I suspect we will keep going in circles. I have had enough.


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## jack.c

redwood60 said:


> well it all kicked off today. Can't explain why I just snapped. Denials etc. just as predicted on TAM. I said I want a photo of us online with a happy couple type comment.
> 
> I had to go out for a couple of hours and came back to find that she had blocked me completely from seeing anything of her online account. I said unblock now, she said not necessary the only thing I am doing is contacting a lawyer to end the marriage.
> 
> I responded with at last, you took long enough. The bank account will be blocked immediately and I am posting all your online texting.
> 
> Tears flowed, she apologised, she asked me which photo I wanted posting online and did it immediately. I suppose now the real work begins. I made it quite clear I have had enough and she has one life left and she needs to decide what to do with that chance.
> 
> I immediately got all her passwords. I am not sure whether we will survive as I am 100% convinced she is ill and without seeking treatment I suspect we will keep going in circles. I have had enough.



GOOD JOB! but i would split financial things anyway....


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## PhillyGuy13

Ugh sorry man. Hopefully she gets the help she needs. Agree with Jack. Protect your finances ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

Classic entitled person reaction. She threatened divorce, fully expecting you to cave in and beg and plead with her not to leave. Unfortunately, things didn't work out for her the way she wanted...you were made of sterner stuff.


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## redwood60

yes due to the advice on TAM. It is very difficult to accept that a beloved partner can go off the rails and this hinders appropriate behaviour to get them back on.

That said I don't agree that in every case, immediate 180 or divorce threats will work either. There is an element of each couple have to know when the right time is. A fiercely independent partner may well leave on the first divorce threat rather than try a bit harder to sort things out. 

But undeniable is that one needs to be strong as soon as a problem is detected. As I mentioned before I don't know where we will end up but thanks to TAM it will be my decision now and nobody elses.

I thank you all for that because it ensures I still have piece of mind.


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## redwood60

marriage just ended. A few months back she claimed to have lost her cell phone. I found it in one of her handbags 6 or so weeks later and have just been waiting patiently.

It was permanent mailbox. Yesterday she facebooked that she had tried to call someone on her new secret phone. I went of to work and she called which I found strange because she never does.

Guess what, I called the old cell phone number and it was live. She eventually answered I hang up.


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## Thor

So now you have some hard data and some closure. I'm sorry it has come to this but now you can start moving on with your life.


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## Tobyboy

redwood60 said:


> marriage just ended. A few months back she claimed to have lost her cell phone. I found it in one of her handbags 6 or so weeks later and have just been waiting patiently.
> 
> It was permanent mailbox. Yesterday she facebooked that she had tried to call someone on her new secret phone. I went of to work and she called which I found strange because she never does.
> 
> Guess what, I called the old cell phone number and it was live. She eventually answered I hang up.
> 
> I have just sent the following text:
> 
> If you call someone else, I'll understand
> If you text someone else, I'll understand
> If you hide phones and emails and facebook texts, I'll understand
> But now I have decided to leave the distant stranger you have become, I hope you understand.


Sorry to hear this. Are you going to follow through and cut her off financially and expose her?


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## redwood60

not sure about exposure because of the kids but I expect it will eventually happen.

Financially absolutely


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## Tobyboy

Who did she facebook message about calling on her new secret phone?


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## redwood60

Well its becoming messy and amusing. I noticed an online post referring to a long phone call with someone I asked her to stop communicating with. 

I was questioning her on her phone use because $50+ had been charged for one call. She denied it was her. 

Then this message came in to her: "we talked over the phone so long and you spent so much"

Denials, denials, denials. Unbelievable. All passwords have been changed too. 

She now leaves messages around the house saying "I hate you because you are crazy" 

Thanks to TAM I can laugh at it all.


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## tom67

redwood60 said:


> Well its becoming messy and amusing. I noticed an online post referring to a long phone call with someone I asked her to stop communicating with.
> 
> I was questioning her on her phone use because $50+ had been charged for one call. She denied it was her.
> 
> Then this message came in to her: "we talked over the phone so long and you spent so much"
> 
> Denials, denials, denials. Unbelievable. All passwords have been changed too.
> 
> She now leaves messages around the house saying "I hate you because you are crazy"
> 
> Thanks to TAM I can laugh at it all.


Geez that's pathetic.:scratchhead:
What an entitled biotch, sorry.


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## daggeredheart

Are those messages directed at you? If so..wow. Who would want to repair a marriage with someone who flat out says they hate you? 


This woman will never stop looking for her next plaything. She has issue that go way beyond what you are capable of handling.


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## redwood60

been served a gagging order. I must not disclose the contents of any of her emails to anyone including family.

I had threatened to burst her online persona by publishing some truths. Lawyers, what could we do without them?


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## 3putt

redwood60 said:


> been served a gagging order. I must not disclose the contents of any of her emails to anyone including family.
> 
> I had threatened to burst her online persona by publishing some truths. Lawyers, what could we do without them?


And this is one reason why you never, EVER threaten to expose. You just do it.

Were you told this?


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## Tobyboy

redwood60 said:


> been served a gagging order. I must not disclose the contents of any of her emails to anyone including family.
> 
> I had threatened to burst her online persona by publishing some truths. Lawyers, what could we do without them?


Are you sure it's a gag order? 
Is it from a court or a lawyer?


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## Squeakr

Can you be held liable if transcripts are just "left" out and people "find/discover" them on their own. What if they log into the accounts and see them for themselves? Ooops forgot that everyone had access to that account I saved them within.


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## WhiteRaven

redwood60 said:


> been served a gagging order. I must not disclose the contents of any of her emails to anyone including family.
> 
> I had threatened to burst her online persona by publishing some truths. Lawyers, what could we do without them?


Court or lawyer? Privacy laws don't work in a marriage. A gag order is issued when exposure of facts may influence the outcome of the ruling.


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## phillybeffandswiss

redwood60 said:


> been served a gagging order. I must not disclose the contents of any of her emails to anyone including family.
> 
> I had threatened to burst her online persona by publishing some truths. Lawyers, what could we do without them?


Well, if you needed a reason not to reconcile, there you go. How do you work on things, in a broken marriage, by SERVING someone a court ordered "STFU"?


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## redwood60

from a lawyer warning of consequences if I expose.


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## WhiteRaven

redwood60 said:


> from a lawyer warning of consequences if I expose.


Consequences? :rofl:

It's all bark, no bite. It's sad for your stbxW, the marriage is still intact, at least legally. Invasion of privacy won't work at all.


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## 3putt

redwood60 said:


> from a lawyer warning of consequences if I expose.


Well, you sure as hell weren't very clear! LMAO

Now get ready to do just the opposite and blow this out of the water. If it'll make you feel any better, PM me your address and I'll send you a letter stating that it's perfectly legal to tell the truth in our country and will suffer no legal ramifications for doing so.

Hell, ask any lawyer if you don't believe us. Her lawyer probably laughed his own ass off at the absurdity of what he was doing on her behalf.


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## Squeakr

WhiteRaven said:


> Consequences? :rofl:
> 
> It's all bark, no bite. It's sad for your stbxW, the marriage is still intact, at least legally. Invasion of privacy won't work at all.


Exactly. Otherwise, they would have already obtained the decree. They feel that a well placed and worded letter of warning would stop the behavior they don't want. It would have been nothing to get the decree if they really had a leg to stand on. Idle threats. What laws were cited in the letter of you violating, as there needs to be something violated to get a decree and make it stick?


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## WhiteRaven

redwood60 said:


> from a lawyer warning of consequences if I expose.


Ever noticed how dogs run after your car barking mad when you drive by them at night? Stop the car, get out and face them. They run away with their tails between their legs. 

Just send the attorney a one word reply-
'HaHaHaHaHaHa'.


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## phillybeffandswiss

redwood60 said:


> from a lawyer warning of consequences if I expose.


Hahahahahahaha, please, detail the consequences.

I bring it up to often, but I am staff on another website. We deal with defamation, libel and slander letters on a regular basis. We receive cease and desist letter as well. Only one, ONE, out of the hundreds we have received resulted in a "gag" order. The order was so ridiculous that it didn't bar anything that already existed, but any future comments. So, all the terrible truth was out, but we couldn't add to it.

Ask yourself, who really won that battle?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

redwood60 said:


> from a lawyer warning of consequences if I expose.


From a liar !!um!! lawyer. He's getting paid to lie for her. What did your lawyer say about it? It doesn't sound like it'll hold any water to me.


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## 3putt

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> From a liar !!um!! lawyer. He's getting paid to lie for her. What did your lawyer say about it? It doesn't sound like it'll hold any water to me.


What I love most about these phantom 'threats' and 'cease and desist' letters from lawyers is that they're giving their client's opponent a blueprint on how to hurt *their* client the most!

It's really quite hilarious if you think about it.


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## F-102

Just what ARE the "consequences" for telling the truth?

Expose to everyone now...then when she and her scumbag lawyer start howling, you can tell them: "Oh, sorry...that idle threat about a gag order came AFTER I told everyone the truth."

Face it: your STBXW is SCARED SH*TLESS that some important people are going to find out the truth, then her "good girl" image will be shattered, and she can't make you out to be the "bad guy" in all of this.

BTW: Was that "gag order" in writing and NOTARIZED?


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## F-102

Also sounds like a cheap tactic from her lawyer to get a better deal for your W. She is afraid that she'll get the shaft if the truth comes out.


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## How am I Going to Surviv

redwood60 said:


> from a lawyer warning of consequences if I expose.


If you somehow feel the need to dignify the lawyer's threats with a response, how about.

"You may reassure your client that I will refrain from making any untrue statements or disclosing false or misleading information to third parties that would be in any way damaging to your client."

I, myself would not respond in any way. I'd never threaten to do anything. I'd just DO, without warning, what I thought was the right thing. Nobody is likely to sue you for making provably true statements. Why would they want all that evidence in an official record?

In any case, only do whatever most benefits you. And only do it at the time most beneficial to you.


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## Thor

What does your lawyer say?

It may be illegal in your location to access her private emails. If you hacked into her accounts you may have broken some laws. On the other hand, if she had the passwords set to auto-fill on a computer used by you also, it may erase any expectation of privacy. That is, if anyone who sat down at the computer typed in Facebook dot com and it automatically logged into her account, there would be no reasonable expectation of privacy.

I think it would could be very different, legally speaking, if you were to tell someone a truthful fact vs electronically sending copies of her emails (with all the embedded header and tracking data). Facts are not illegal to speak, but electronic communications may violate privacy laws.


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## redwood60

unfortunately haven't been to my lawyer yet but the letter seems a joke.

What is more difficult to deal with is home life. Now she is being so nice its unbelievable, almost as if nothings happened. I am refusing to move out so don't know how long we will have to live together.
She also deposited $50 in the account to pay for the phone call.

Doing the 180 as best I can.

Any tips on upping the pressure to get her to cave in and move out?


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## WhiteRaven

redwood60 said:


> unfortunately haven't been to my lawyer yet but the letter seems a joke.
> 
> What is more difficult to deal with is home life. Now she is being so nice its unbelievable, almost as if nothings happened. I am refusing to move out so don't know how long we will have to live together.
> She also deposited $50 in the account to pay for the phone call.
> 
> Doing the 180 as best I can.
> 
> Any tips on upping the pressure to get her to cave in and move out?


180 and monosyllable answers. Also be glued to the phone with someone having funny conversations when she's around. Make her feel she doesn't exist in your world anymore.


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## PBear

Invite loud, rowdy, beer drinking friends over for a poker night?

Every second night?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble

I skipped a few pages. Has she had a PA with anyone locally?

If so, tell her he called and wants her to move in with him.


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