# Random Thoughts Rant



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Sitting here at work at 6:40AM and just wanted to make a few notes to post as the thoughts are running around in my feeble mind. I actually don’t even expect a reply.

Although I try and judge people individually, there are some I simply have little use for. As someone who has faith, that is a terrible thing to say but I somehow cannot escape my own humanity. My list is small- pedophiles, men who hit women & children, and betrayers. Now, that said, my closest friend is a lifelong sex addict and has betrayed all 3 of his wives. I really took him to task for it and it has dampened our friendship, but we have been friends since age 11. I am working with him to overcome his addictions. But is it so hard to trust people like that.

And speaking of trust (and faith), often I see people talk of rebuilding trust via checking up and accountability. I find that so sad and shortsighted. To me trust & faith means I know in both my heart and mind that my spouse can be 100% trusted in any and all circumstances to uphold our relationship. They guy who tries to subtly worm his way into her emotions with emails… is rebuffed and told to get a life. That woman who just wants to talk is told to find someone else. That old HS chum of the opposite sex who found you on FB is either not ‘friended’ or kept on a short leash. They never, never place themselves in a compromising position or try to play with fire thinking they won’t get burned… They simply don’t flirt with people outside their marriage. At all. They may talk and joke a bit, but for the respect of their marriage and their spouse they have sharply defined limits and stick to them with sincerity. That’s trust & faith- not calling in every hour to let you know where they are. That's why trust & faith cannot be rebuilt after betrayers have shown who they are at their core.

Second chances. _God bless people who give second chances!_ I mean, I gave 2 second chances and left after the third betrayal (that I know of). The Old Testament of the Bible is the foundation for almost all cannons of law throughout history. Whether you are a believe in God or not, it is an inescapable fact that the sagacity and common sense within has been patterned for centuries. So then why does the OT state that adultery is a capital offense? Akin to murder? Because of the way it destroys people’s lives and because of the type of people who betray. When a person goes before a jury for murder and is convicted, how often does the judge say, “I hereby give you a second chance?” So for those of you who obtain second chances, it is a gift beyond measure and you should do anything and everything within your power to make it work. 

One last thought and then my rant is done. There are a few (and one in particular) here who advocate for betraying and defend it pretty strongly, albeit slyly. But your cleverness is actually laughed at. I pretty much ignore such posts and threads for the most part but occasionally send a post or two to keep things balanced.

OK, back to work.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

thatbpguy said:


> And speaking of trust (and faith), often I see people talk of rebuilding trust via checking up and accountability. I find that so sad and shortsighted. To me trust & faith means I know in both my heart and mind that my spouse can be 100% trusted in any and all circumstances to uphold our relationship.


While I understand your wanting for pure trust I find it naive in the aftermath of an affair. It is sad that we can't just wipe the slate clean but in reality the marriage is changed forever. To snoop on one's partner, the person we should trust the most is repugnant to most of us but it is a part of rebuilding the relationship. Our partner has betrayed us and shown they are capable of it so one cannot assume it will not happen again. I am not a huge proponent of snooping because to some extent its limited to how much you can really know. There can always be a burner phone, a hotmail account or social media profile you don't know about. You can't VAR every car, office, kitchen or park bench where contact might take place. You can only do the best you can with due diligence until the threat appears to be gone or our own paranoia wanes. Once that happens trust will begin to return through communication, intimacy, openness and love. But complete and blind trust is probably altered for the remainder of the marriage.



thatbpguy said:


> Second chances. _God bless people who give second chances!_ I mean, I gave 2 second chances and left after the third betrayal (that I know of). The Old Testament of the Bible is the foundation for almost all cannons of law throughout history. Whether you are a believe in God or not, it is an inescapable fact that the sagacity and common sense within has been patterned for centuries. So then why does the OT state that adultery is a capital offense? Akin to murder? Because of the way it destroys people’s lives and because of the type of people who betray.


Second chances go both ways. I gave my wife a second chance after discovery of her EA but she in turn gave me a second chance as she had already exited the marriage emotionally before OM entered the scene. We both gave each other the opportunity to repair the damage we both brought down on our marriage and this was a necessary part of our recovery process.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> While I understand your wanting for pure trust I find it naive in the aftermath of an affair. It is sad that we can't just wipe the slate clean but in reality the marriage is changed forever.


How very true. 



Amplexor said:


> Second chances go both ways. I gave my wife a second chance after discovery of her EA but she in turn gave me a second chance as she had already exited the marriage emotionally before OM entered the scene. We both gave each other the opportunity to repair the damage we both brought down on our marriage and this was a necessary part of our recovery process.


It's a fair point when the betrayed had their own set of issues. That said, it is so very rare when the betrayed "caused" their spouse to betray.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

thatbpguy said:


> It's a fair point when the betrayed had their own set of issues. That said, it is so very rare when the betrayed "caused" their spouse to betray.


In our case not caused it but made her vulnerable to it. My years of anger issues, emotional detachment and withdrawal from her left her feeling hurt and alone. Her physical withdrawal from our sex life left me feeling unloved and rejected. Chicken or egg, who knows where it really started but as time progressed the marriage spun out of control. It was a viscous cycle that was self propelling.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> In our case not caused it but made her vulnerable to it. My years of anger issues, emotional detachment and withdrawal from her left her feeling hurt and alone. Her physical withdrawal from our sex life left me feeling unloved and rejected. Chicken or egg, who knows where it really started but as time progressed the marriage spun out of control. It was a viscous cycle that was self propelling.


Then I would say a true reconciliation from that would be a bessed thing.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

If trust must be earned or re-earned, how can you trust blindly/faithfuy once trust has been breached? Verification seems the only choice. Either that or it is one and done. 

Everyone has the capacity to be weak. Ideally, people would be self-aware enough to side-step a risky situation. Ideally everyone would recognize their vulnerability and avoid situations that put them at risk. Idealy everyone is educated on EAs and how they lead to PAs. 

But people are blissfully ignorant. They fall into different blind spots. Middle aged man thinks younger women aren't interested so it is "safe", denying to himself that HE is interested/hopeful, bored mom on the net making "friends" with someone who is safe because he is 1000 miles away, and besides, he is married. Guys going to strip clubs pretending that sex never happens there. That guy at church who is so helpful is safe because he is from CHURCH for goodness sake. 

The non-offending spouse can also be naive to danger. The wife/husband who is afraid to appear controlling or who wants to trust blindly... 

Here is the saddest IMO. Cheating before marriage or early in marriage. It often plays out that post forgiveness, the offender goes on to become a serial cheater or years later, the betrayed spouse cheats. It isn't a conscious revenge affair. The failure to recognize the early affair undermined the entire footing of the marriage is a tragedy. To me, both of those circumstances should be a one and done. But young people are encouraged to "work it out" because "marriage is hard" and "he/she is young and made a mistake but really loves you."

The beat goes on. 

We have to teach our children to recognize and understand. Most adults only learn when they are on the receiving end. Hard to teach those on the giving end. 

I'd pay money for an ideal world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

*And speaking of trust (and faith), often I see people talk of rebuilding trust via checking up and accountability. I find that so sad and shortsighted. To me trust & faith means I know in both my heart and mind that my spouse can be 100% trusted in any and all circumstances to uphold our relationship. *

Faith to me is all centered on the object. It is not blind, it is not merely a subjective thing. I can subjectively believe that my wife will no longer cheat on me, because that is what she says, but when I check her computer, etc. I see by her actions that she is telling me the truth and that is based upon objective evidence.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Sitting here at work at 6:40AM and just wanted to make a few notes to post as the thoughts are running around in my feeble mind. I actually don’t even expect a reply.
> 
> Although I try and judge people individually, there are some I simply have little use for. As someone who has faith, that is a terrible thing to say but I somehow cannot escape my own humanity. My list is small- pedophiles, men who hit women & children, and betrayers. Now, that said, my closest friend is a lifelong sex addict and has betrayed all 3 of his wives. I really took him to task for it and it has dampened our friendship, but we have been friends since age 11. I am working with him to overcome his addictions. But is it so hard to trust people like that.
> 
> ...


:rofl:

I agree with you completely. No more 'three strikes and you are out'. From now on, one strike and let me open the door for you.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think we are all different - within a prescribed band of recognizable human behaviors, but different nonetheless.

I think there are people with naturally strong boundaries & these people, in my experience, find it unpalatable and sometimes impossible to stay in a marriage once infidelity has shaken it. The hard work that is required to monitor and rebuild trust is almost yet another slap in the face to people who feel this way; they themselves would never have to be monitored, so having to watch their spouses so carefully and constantly is almost an insult to their sense of self-respect.

People with fuzzier boundaries say that the ones with stronger boundaries are intransigent or unforgiving. They perceive them as not accepting human weakness and temptation. They sometimes think they are hypocritical - there but by the grace of God, etc. They think they are black and white thinkers & refuse to admit the shades of gray.

I see an entire gamut of attitude about infidelity on this site. I can observe and try to understand many of the different attitudes, but know that my own is in the first category of strong natural boundaries. I hope that I haven't been wrong in thinking that I have a match in this regard with my H. It seems to me that a mismatch in expectations in this regard creates endless problems both with the infidelity itself & in any reconciliation attempt.

So those are some of my random thoughts that you sparked with your post, OP.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I see an entire gamut of attitude about infidelity on this site.


How true!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I think we are all different - within a prescribed band of recognizable human behaviors, but different nonetheless.
> 
> I think there are people with naturally strong boundaries & these people, in my experience, find it unpalatable and sometimes impossible to stay in a marriage once infidelity has shaken it. The hard work that is required to monitor and rebuild trust is almost yet another slap in the face to people who feel this way; they themselves would never have to be monitored, so having to watch their spouses so carefully and constantly is almost an insult to their sense of self-respect.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Yes there is no one path to peace and happiness....


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I think we are all different - within a prescribed band of recognizable human behaviors, but different nonetheless.
> 
> I think there are people with naturally strong boundaries & these people, in my experience, find it unpalatable and sometimes impossible to stay in a marriage once infidelity has shaken it. The hard work that is required to monitor and rebuild trust is almost yet another slap in the face to people who feel this way; they themselves would never have to be monitored, so having to watch their spouses so carefully and constantly is almost an insult to their sense of self-respect.
> 
> ...


That's the thing. A fundamental mismatch in preferences and expectations. People get involved and stay involved with completely mismatched partners for the fear of living alone. Things still go south anyways. 



Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: Yes there is no one path to peace and happiness....


Depends how you define peace and happiness. Apparently, peace and happiness might mean different things to different people. Some people are peaceful and happy with lifelong monitoring, and call it life. Some call it self-imposed imprisonment. Take your pick.


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## TimesOfChange (Mar 20, 2013)

Deuteronomy 22:22

“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."


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