# Should I move on?



## hard_to_detach

A little background...we have been together 15 years, married 14, and have two boys 15 and 11. We got married very young and have struggled financially and had some bumps in our relationship but nothing every relationship goes through from time to time. She had a Facebook relationship about 4 years ago that included sex/dirty talk. We struggled throught that and came close to divorce over a two year period. For the last two years we were able to be more open with each other and she has admitted that she had never been "in love" with me but she does love me very much. We are best friends and have been a beacon to our friends of a good relationship and doing what it takes to make it work. 

I have known that she felt like something was missing and have always done everything I can to be there for her. She started college in January and is working toward her dream career. She will be done a couple years before our youngest graduates. Since we had kids so young we have been talking about how nice it will be that she will have a good career too and we will be able to move wherever we want and begin our life together. She has really seemed content in her life.

She got a message on Facebook from her ex-boyfriend last week. They dated for 2 months, 17 years ago, but besides me it was her longest relationship. He is a cop and is moving to be closer to his kids and needs to list all of his ex-girlfriends on his applications. She was upfront with me about it and I joked that he is just trying to find her to try and get back with her. She said "no way, he has young kids and I don't want that". She chatted with him a little on Facebook and didn't hide any of it. Just innocently filling each other in on their lives. I had a bad feeling though. He was going to be in town on an interview and she said they wanted to meet for coffee and to catch up. I expressed my concern and she insisted that I have nothing to worry about, that she is commited to us and nothing will happen.

So they meet up for about two hours a week ago Friday. Saturday she spent at home studying for finals this week while me and the boys hung out at our friend's house. Sunday she spent studying and me and the boys hung out at the house. She texted him a bit and again was upfront that they were texting and shared some of the things they talked about. Having been through this before, my gut was telling me that something was wrong so I checked our phone records and found that they had spent 2 straight hours texing on Saturday and when I checked her phone she had deleted them. So I asked her on Monday night if I could look at her texts with him. I could tell by the look on her face that we were in trouble.

Apparently, in the two hours they spent together at a local coffee shop, she realized that he is her one true love and is ready to throw away our 15 year relationship. I told her that I can't keep doing this and that if she needs to "explore" her feelings for him then we are done. Either she wants to be with me or she doesn't. She said she didn't think she could feel like this about anyone and had resigned herself to the fact that she wouldn't and was ok with that. She was prepared to spend the rest of her life with me and the life we had built, but she can't ignore this. I told her that if that is her stance then we are done and she needs to move out. Of course she won't and won't leave the kids. We have been living on my income alone for the last year so are not in a good position financially. She received some inheritance money last year from her grandma and used that to get her boob job and a cruise for the family at the end of this summer and her schooling. Of course, she won't use that to move out. She is going to get a job now that school is out but until she is able and we can figure out how to handle all of this she will still be living with me.

She tells me that he is trying to be respectful. I told her that if he was being respectful, he wouldn't be trying to date a married woman, but according to her he feels the same as she does. He is in a relationship that is less than a year old so he isn't giving up much to make this happen. I told her that I do not want her meeting up with him while she is living in my house. I will not have my "wife" dating while I am still supporting her. There isn't much I can do about them talking on the phone and texting. She said they will not make it physical until our divorce is final but will continue to talk to him. I told her she is trying to have her cake and eat it too. She is able to get to know him and see if it is real while having the comfort of living with me. If she and he were truly respectful and honorable they would cease all contact until she can move out and our divorce is under way. Of course she doesn't see it that way. The fact of the matter is, I can't force her to leave the house and she has money she can use on a lawyer and so does her mom, so if I force the siftuation she can destroy me. If I play along we will probably be able to work this out without lawyers but I am stuck living with her until she gets out.

What do I do? Last time this happened the "relationship" fizzled out and she came to her senses. This may be triggered by the fact that she is turning 35 and just started school again. Trying to re-claim some feeling from the past?


----------



## BK23

hard_to_detach said:


> A little background...we have been together 15 years, married 14, and have two boys 15 and 11. We got married very young and have struggled financially and had some bumps in our relationship but nothing every relationship goes through from time to time. She had a Facebook relationship about 4 years ago that included sex/dirty talk. We struggled throught that and came close to divorce over a two year period. For the last two years we were able to be more open with each other and she has admitted that she had never been "in love" with me but she does love me very much. We are best friends and have been a beacon to our friends of a good relationship and doing what it takes to make it work.
> 
> I have known that she felt like something was missing and have always done everything I can to be there for her. She started college in January and is working toward her dream career. She will be done a couple years before our youngest graduates. Since we had kids so young we have been talking about how nice it will be that she will have a good career too and we will be able to move wherever we want and begin our life together. She has really seemed content in her life.
> 
> She got a message on Facebook from her ex-boyfriend last week. They dated for 2 months, 17 years ago, but besides me it was her longest relationship. He is a cop and is moving to be closer to his kids and needs to list all of his ex-girlfriends on his applications. She was upfront with me about it and I joked that he is just trying to find her to try and get back with her. She said "no way, he has young kids and I don't want that". She chatted with him a little on Facebook and didn't hide any of it. Just innocently filling each other in on their lives. I had a bad feeling though. He was going to be in town on an interview and she said they wanted to meet for coffee and to catch up. I expressed my concern and she insisted that I have nothing to worry about, that she is commited to us and nothing will happen.
> 
> So they meet up for about two hours a week ago Friday. Saturday she spent at home studying for finals this week while me and the boys hung out at our friend's house. Sunday she spent studying and me and the boys hung out at the house. She texted him a bit and again was upfront that they were texting and shared some of the things they talked about. Having been through this before, my gut was telling me that something was wrong so I checked our phone records and found that they had spent 2 straight hours texing on Saturday and when I checked her phone she had deleted them. So I asked her on Monday night if I could look at her texts with him. I could tell by the look on her face that we were in trouble.
> 
> Apparently, in the two hours they spent together at a local coffee shop, she realized that he is her one true love and is ready to throw away our 15 year relationship. I told her that I can't keep doing this and that if she needs to "explore" her feelings for him then we are done. Either she wants to be with me or she doesn't. She said she didn't think she could feel like this about anyone and had resigned herself to the fact that she wouldn't and was ok with that. She was prepared to spend the rest of her life with me and the life we had built, but she can't ignore this. I told her that if that is her stance then we are done and she needs to move out. Of course she won't and won't leave the kids. We have been living on my income alone for the last year so are not in a good position financially. She received some inheritance money last year from her grandma and used that to get her boob job and a cruise for the family at the end of this summer and her schooling. Of course, she won't use that to move out. She is going to get a job now that school is out but until she is able and we can figure out how to handle all of this she will still be living with me.
> 
> She tells me that he is trying to be respectful. I told her that if he was being respectful, he wouldn't be trying to date a married woman, but according to her he feels the same as she does. He is in a relationship that is less than a year old so he isn't giving up much to make this happen. I told her that I do not want her meeting up with him while she is living in my house. I will not have my "wife" dating while I am still supporting her. There isn't much I can do about them talking on the phone and texting. She said they will not make it physical until our divorce is final but will continue to talk to him. I told her she is trying to have her cake and eat it too. She is able to get to know him and see if it is real while having the comfort of living with me. If she and he were truly respectful and honorable they would cease all contact until she can move out and our divorce is under way. Of course she doesn't see it that way. The fact of the matter is, I can't force her to leave the house and she has money she can use on a lawyer and so does her mom, so if I force the siftuation she can destroy me. If I play along we will probably be able to work this out without lawyers but I am stuck living with her until she gets out.
> 
> What do I do? Last time this happened the "relationship" fizzled out and she came to her senses. This may be triggered by the fact that she is turning 35 and just started school again. Trying to re-claim some feeling from the past?



Personally. I'd cut ties, and move on with someone better. If it wasn't this guy it'd be something else. By doing this now, you save yourself the pain of watching it unravel before your eyes in slow motion. Also, you can sit back and laugh when this guy discards her like the trash she is once he's had his fun.


----------



## Acoa

hard_to_detach said:


> She received some inheritance money last year from her grandma and used that to get her boob job and a cruise for the family
> 
> If I play along we will probably be able to work this out without lawyers but I am stuck living with her until she gets out.
> 
> What do I do? Last time this happened the "relationship" fizzled out and she came to her senses. This may be triggered by the fact that she is turning 35 and just started school again. Trying to re-claim some feeling from the past?


1.) Hire a lawyer. 
2.) Follow the lawyer's advice on finances. Laws vary by location, but you need to start protecting your money from her. The lawyer will advise you on what you can and cannot do from a legal perspective.
3.) Hire a lawyer.
4.) Start turning off services that are jointly held (ie, cell phones, credit cards ect). Let her get her own stuff. You can't physically restrain her from talking to OM on the phone, but you don't have to pay for it.
5.) Hire a lawyer.
6.) Read "Married Man's Sex Life Primer" The boob job is a huge red flag. It may not help you in your marriage, but may prepare you better for future relationships.
7.) Hire a lawyer
8.) Don't wait for this to 'fizzle'. Just take action. 4 years ago you gave her a break. This is her 2nd strike, and it seems to have escalated. She needs consequences on this. If it fizzles and you take her back, it will be worse next time.
9.) Hire a lawyer
10.) Tell all friends and family what's going on. Make sure they know she is choosing to discard the marriage and break up the family to pursue this OM. Give specifics and offer proof. If it does indeed 'fizzle', she won't be able to pretend like nothing ever happened. Even if it does 'fizzle' don't be so quick to take her back. Many here would counsel you to forget that possibility all together. But we really don't know her as well as you do. But things like the prior FB sexting, boob job and tell you she isn't "in love" with you are bad signs.

Oh, and lastly, make sure the lawyer is a good one.


----------



## Myka

Just turned 35.

Going back to school.

Got a boob job.

This isn't "just" an affair. It's a mid life crisis. She is changing ALL of her priorities. It sounds like you didn't make the new list. The other man is probably a soft landing pad for her exit. Get ready for more. You want to put a voice activated recorder in her car. 

Has she gotten new friends yet?


----------



## Chris989

Divorce her. If she doesn't do this loser, it will be someone else.

She is an entitled princess. She believes you will do nothing in reality. You have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it, but my spidey sense tells me you are on a one way hide into nothing with this woman.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Yes, she has befriended a 21 year old girl from school who she has talked to about her new relationsihp. Of course this girl is happy for her and tells her she isn't doing anything wrong. She is also talking to her mom, who supports her. She hasn't told her dad because she knows he will tell her she is being an idiot and throwing away the best thing in her life.

We both agreed that we would tell the kids together. We are going to wait until they get out of school.

What do I do if I can't afford a lawyer?


----------



## movin on

You can't afford not to hire a lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Myka

hard_to_detach said:


> What do I do if I can't afford a lawyer?


Get one now, or regret it later.


----------



## movin on

Oh and in the divorce make sure you get half of grannies little inheritance.why can't she move in with om now ? Tell her you will more than happy to help her pack. Also may wanna keep a var on you when around her in case she tells officer soulmate you threatened her.


Idk about reporting him to his command . I'm sure the police force has some sort of code of conduct ?? May want to ask others first though
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## movin on

He is not being respectful . May want to post his sorry ass on cheaterville
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Right now your W is delusional and nothing you do or say will change that. You are doing the right thing by telling her to GTFO.

No more nice guy, make her sleep on the couch and put more pressure on her to leave. If this is what she wants then give it to her. Odds of her lasting with the OM is slim to none but telling her or waiting for her to "wake up" is pointless at this time. She's going to have to learn the hard way.

This is all on her, don't even think about R unless she is begging for it and even then, sounds like she is going off the deep end anyway and you may be better off without her.


----------



## Acoa

hard_to_detach said:


> What do I do if I can't afford a lawyer?


Take complete control of your money. Take 50% of the cash that is in the bank out. Leave the rest for her. Start a new account with only your name on it. Have your money go there. 

Pay only the required bills. Rent/Mortgage, utilities (electric, water, garbage pick up). 

Things like internet, her cell phone, cable / satellite TV are not required. If you really look, you would be amazed at the amount of your paycheck that is going toward things you can live without short term. 

Cutting all these things will be disruptive. That's good. You want disruptive right now. 

If she needs money to pay for something for the kids, give it to her. But only as much as she needs. The lawyer will probably advise you to give her some percentage of your income that will approximate what you will likely end up paying her in alimony. This is where the lawyer pays off. Left to your own devices, you will likely give her more than she is legally entitled to. Give her only what she will likely get in the divorce settlement, not a penny more. It won't be enough to keep her in the life style she is accustomed to. That's too bad for her, and not your problem.

In the mean time, take care of yourself and the kids. Seriously, if you haven't showered today. Take one now. Then go get something healthy to eat.


----------



## turnera

I agree to take half of whatever money you have and move it somewhere. Don't spend it, but don't give her access for now. Someone in lust will do anything. And I hope you don't seriously believe they only talked for 2 hours. Two hours and they're ready to give up their lives to be together? I'd have your bed tested for semen. No, she probably already washed the sheets, didn't she?

The first thing you need to do is call her dad and tell him what she's been doing the last few years. If ANYTHING gets her head out of her a$$, that will.


----------



## Myka

Let Mrs. Boobjob pay for her own school too.


----------



## DavidWYoung

You are going to have to get a lawyer. I know it is very costly BUT she is going to bend you over in court, I promise you that!

On the good side of karma, she want to be in a relationship with a Law Enforcement Officer, Yea, That's going to work out just peachy! No drama there!

Carry a VAR with you at all times! Do not get angry with her or say anything that she could use with her lawyer or her cop friend.
Just treat her like the shineie POS that she is.Sorry, I don't know how to spell "Shinie POS"But that is what I think.

You life is going to be OK if you understand that this is not your fault, if you listen to the people here at TAM and do as they tell you and understand that there are some crazy hot chicks that would love to get to know you without your STBEW drama.

Write more to us, we like to hear from you. David in Germany


----------



## workindad

Protect your assets ASAP. No matter how small. The boob job Wasn't for you. She is making her plans to leave you in the dust. Don't just sit there and let it happen. Get a lawyer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris989

*hard_to_detach*, you are probably still thinking of the money in terms of being a family man. You are, I expect, still budgeting for all the things your "wife" needs and wants, the things the children need and want, then last of all what you need.

That has to turn on its head right now - you see, if this woman gets her way it's all gone anyway. Yes, she will take you for everything in court - no doubt ably egged on by her "one true love" - who will dump her as soon as the next boob job comes around the corner but maybe a little younger.

In addition, every single penny you are allowing her to have that you could take, she is using to feed her "love" of this piece of crud that wants to bang her brains out - if not already.

It sounds to me like she is lying about "waiting for the divorce" like a chaste bride. Adults don't do that because they don't need to. Entitled adults want it and they want it NOW and, in their warped minds, they DESERVE IT.

After all, if she lets this amazing wife stealing cop get away he might find another one true love. Because she thinks "he's *The One*" she no longer sees why she should respect you. After all, she has already broken the marriage vows twice that we know of. Why On Earth would she wait to take what is clearly rightfully hers?

If you don't believe this to be true, read some of the threads on here. Start with mine. That's a freebie for you. Then go back over just one month - but beware, if you aren't used to what cheaters get up to you will begin to lose faith in everything...


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> Yes, she has befriended a 21 year old girl from school who she has talked to about her new relationsihp. Of course this girl is happy for her and tells her she isn't doing anything wrong. She is also talking to her mom, who supports her. She hasn't told her dad because she knows he will tell her she is being an idiot and throwing away the best thing in her life.
> 
> We both agreed that we would tell the kids together. We are going to wait until they get out of school.
> 
> What do I do if I can't afford a lawyer?


She can start contributing half the household expenses from her inheritance. Should free some money up for you.

Borrow from your family if you half to. You need a lawyer now.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Half of the money in the bank is zero. Her inheritance is hers and cannot be touched by me even in divorce. She has been paying for her own school and paid for her boobs. I have zero money for a lawyer and no family to borrow from.

After their two hour meeting, she called her mom crying because she knew how she felt about him and her mom told her to keep it quiet for as long as possible, still she figures things out. They both have money and will be able to hire a really good lawyer. I can shut off her phone, that will save some money. I will also shut off the cable and internet, not necessary and the internet connection is another avenue for her to contact him.

He lives 3 hours away and hasn't been back here since their first visit but they talk on the phone every day for 2-3 hours. The only thing we will be dividing is debt and custody. This is all so overwhelming I don't sleep, I don't eat, and can barely focus on work.


----------



## Tony55

hard_to_detach said:


> She started college in January and is working toward her dream career. She will be done a couple years before our youngest graduates.


Don't worry, even if you do nothing, she'll do it for you a couple of years before your youngest graduates. So, if I'm doing the math right, you've got 5 more miserable years before she kicks you to the curb.

T


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

She can use that inheritance to pay half the household bills. Why should you pay it all? What law says you must support her going to school? None. She can get a job and pay her share. If she does not want to work then she can use her inheritance. You are not required to support her, especially while she wants to leave you. 

IMHO, stop supporting her today. Let her pay her way.


----------



## Chris989

hard_to_detach said:


> Half of the money in the bank is zero. Her inheritance is hers and cannot be touched by me even in divorce. She has been paying for her own school and paid for her boobs. I have zero money for a lawyer and no family to borrow from.


Her inheritance isn't hers unless you have a post nup to cover it or unless there are sufficient assets elsewhere to cover for the needs of the children and reasonable needs of the spouse.

This is why you need to see a lawyer. You must be able to get a half hour free to see where you stand. Have you spoken with a lawyer?


----------



## turnera

Go to United Way and ask them to point you to a lawyer you can afford on a sliding scale. And divide up the household bills and find ones YOU can live without. Stop buying her food, buy only what YOU eat. Start selling household items on eBay. Or give them away. MAKE HER LIFE A LIVING HELL until she does something.


----------



## NatureDave

hard_to_detach said:


> Half of the money in the bank is zero. Her inheritance is hers and cannot be touched by me even in divorce. She has been paying for her own school and paid for her boobs. I have zero money for a lawyer and no family to borrow from.
> 
> After their two hour meeting, she called her mom crying because she knew how she felt about him and her mom told her to keep it quiet for as long as possible, still she figures things out. They both have money and will be able to hire a really good lawyer. I can shut off her phone, that will save some money. I will also shut off the cable and internet, not necessary and the internet connection is another avenue for her to contact him.
> 
> He lives 3 hours away and hasn't been back here since their first visit but they talk on the phone every day for 2-3 hours. The only thing we will be dividing is debt and custody. This is all so overwhelming I don't sleep, I don't eat, and can barely focus on work.


Now you're starting to think more clearly.

First, holding off on physical relations until after divorce, but continuing to talk on the phone and internet IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. It's either no contact ever again, or she must move out. You can't physically throw her out, but you can push her in that direction.

And no, she and her mom cannot "ruin" you with high priced lawyers. The laws and civil procedures about dividing custody, assets, and debts are pretty clear. Definitely hire a lawyer, but don't fret about getting destroyed.

Do the above immediately. Separate your finances, meaning transfer all savings and checking to your private account and cancel all credit cards. If she is giving up on the marriage, then you shouldn't support her with one dime from here on. You'd be surprised how far your paycheck will go without having to pay for her gas, meals out, hair and nails, clothes, gym memberships, etc., etc.


----------



## turnera

Cancel the credit cards. Turn off the phones and keep yours only. Give her NO money for gas or anything else.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

NatureDave said:


> Now you're starting to think more clearly.
> 
> First, holding off on physical relations until after divorce, but continuing to talk on the phone and internet IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. It's either no contact ever again, or she must move out. You can't physically throw her out, but you can push her in that direction.
> 
> And no, she and her mom cannot "ruin" you with high priced lawyers. The laws and civil procedures about dividing custody, assets, and debts are pretty clear. Definitely hire a lawyer, but don't fret about getting destroyed.
> 
> Do the above immediately. Separate your finances, meaning transfer all savings and checking to your private account and cancel all credit cards. If she is giving up on the marriage, then you shouldn't support her with one dime from here on. You'd be surprised how far your paycheck will go without having to pay for her gas, meals out, hair and nails, clothes, gym memberships, etc., etc.



Agreed, stop paying everything ( except food/electricity) including rent/mortgage give lawyer down payment to get started. You can catch up later. They will not evict you with a family for being a few weeks behind. 

-


----------



## tom67

I'm sure you can work a payment plan I'm sure you're not the first with money problems.


----------



## Acoa

And take a shower and eat something. I know you are not hungry. Just make something healthy and choke it down. You will think better. 

The shower will help invigorate you a bit. I am not silly enough to suggest sleeping. You won't sleep good for a while. Seeing your lawyer will help you get a clear picture of the road ahead. That clarity may help you rest.

Keep a self care log so you remember to eat, drink and shower. It's important stuff and you need to take care.


----------



## shaung

Do not make her comfortable. You owe her nothing but food and electricity. Everything else is a luxury and enables her midlife crisis/affair. I wouldn't give her so much as bus money.


----------



## LdyVenus

Acoa said:


> 1.) Hire a lawyer.
> 2.) Follow the lawyer's advice on finances. Laws vary by location, but you need to start protecting your money from her. The lawyer will advise you on what you can and cannot do from a legal perspective.
> 3.) Hire a lawyer.
> 4.) Start turning off services that are jointly held (ie, cell phones, credit cards ect). Let her get her own stuff. You can't physically restrain her from talking to OM on the phone, but you don't have to pay for it.
> 5.) Hire a lawyer.
> 6.) Read "Married Man's Sex Life Primer" The boob job is a huge red flag. It may not help you in your marriage, but may prepare you better for future relationships.
> 7.) Hire a lawyer
> 8.) Don't wait for this to 'fizzle'. Just take action. 4 years ago you gave her a break. This is her 2nd strike, and it seems to have escalated. She needs consequences on this. If it fizzles and you take her back, it will be worse next time.
> 9.) Hire a lawyer
> 10.) Tell all friends and family what's going on. Make sure they know she is choosing to discard the marriage and break up the family to pursue this OM. Give specifics and offer proof. If it does indeed 'fizzle', she won't be able to pretend like nothing ever happened. Even if it does 'fizzle' don't be so quick to take her back. Many here would counsel you to forget that possibility all together. But we really don't know her as well as you do. But things like the prior FB sexting, boob job and tell you she isn't "in love" with you are bad signs.
> 
> Oh, and lastly, make sure the lawyer is a good one.


All of this, and start the 180 immediately!


----------



## Shaggy

First his reason for contacting her is total bs. Cops do not have to list their old gfs on job applications.

I think you are being played.

What to do about it

1. Post him by name on cheaterville.com, list what he is up to. Include a pic if you can find one on fb, the web or her phone 
2. Contact the local PD he is interviewing at, tell them he's having an afar with your wife and breaking up your marriage. Do everything you can to make him not get the job.
3. Contact his current go and tell her.
4. Cut your wife off from every cent you can

Btw, the boob job was entirely to catch the attention of other guys, she's been shopping around and planning on ditching you all along, if not now then as soon as she graduated she would be out of there using the new boobs to land a new victim.


----------



## jnj express

she was with the guy for TWO MONTHS, probably in hi school, and he is the love of her life---give me a break---she is using him as an exit A.

If you can't afford an atty---do the following

Google your state legal codes---go to family codes---and read up everything in that section---you will know the law, as well as any atty, and even tho they are in court, and practicing the law, if you do your homework, and familiarize your self, with your states family codes---you can get by,

if this is a D., where both of you are willing to work out the details, in re:---property split/custody/your retirement----things like that

You can also once you have things figured out---go to your counties legal aid----they can also help you

As far as the mge doc's or packet---you can go to your state's legal forms, and print them out on the computer yourself---look at them, and know them completely---also get the custody packet----you can afford the filing fee, and you will just go from there---if your wife file's agst you---then you will just file your answer

Whatever you do---do not let your wife, just go off with her lover, or continue with her lover---if you have to file---then do so

If your wife has done this before---and you really are not her true love---then it is time to free yourself, and move on----you don't need the misery, of living with a woman, who keeps trying to find a replacement for you.


----------



## VFW

This is a woman that is throwing away a 14 year marriage for a 2 month relationship 17 years ago. If he was so wonderful, than why didn't she marry him and let you marry someone that loved you? I have seen many security applications at various level and NONE of them include exgirl friends, that was a hookup, plain and simple. Her whole story is Horse S***. 

She is using you for a doormat my friend and only you get to say how long that lasts. If she has financial backing, then she no longer should get yours, you need it for more important things. You need to prepare for a 50/50 split. She should pay for her own affair and you should move to a hard 180. If she wants to be his girlfriend, than she is no longer your wife, buddy or pal. She is merely the mother of your children. You should look to create time with you and the children to do fun things to get them use to the separation ahead.


----------



## Will_Kane

hard_to_detach said:


> A little background...we have been together 15 years, married 14, and have two boys 15 and 11. We got married very young and have struggled financially and had some bumps in our relationship but nothing every relationship goes through from time to time. She had a Facebook relationship about 4 years ago that included sex/dirty talk. We struggled throught that and came close to divorce over a two year period. For the last two years we were able to be more open with each other and *she has admitted that she had never been "in love" with me but she does love me very much. We are best friends *and have been a beacon to our friends of a good relationship and doing what it takes to make it work.
> 
> *I have known that she felt like something was missing *and have always done everything I can to be there for her. She *started college in January *and is working toward her dream career. She will be done a couple years before our youngest graduates. Since we had kids so young we have been talking about how nice it will be that she will have a good career too and we will be able to move wherever we want and begin our life together. She has really *seemed* content in her life.
> 
> She got a message on Facebook from her ex-boyfriend last week. They *dated for 2 months, 17 years ago*, but besides me it was her longest relationship. He is a cop and is *moving to be closer to his kids *and *needs to list all of his ex-girlfriends on his applications*. She was upfront with me about it and I *joked that he is just trying to find her to try and get back with her*. She said "no way, he has young kids and I don't want that". She chatted with him a little on Facebook and didn't hide any of it. Just innocently filling each other in on their lives. I had a bad feeling though. He was going to be in town on an interview and she said they wanted to meet for coffee and to catch up. I expressed my concern and *she insisted that I have nothing to worry about*, that she is commited to us and nothing will happen.
> 
> What do I do? Last time this happened the "relationship" fizzled out and she came to her senses. This may be triggered by the fact that she is turning 35 and just started school again. Trying to re-claim some feeling from the past?


No way he needs to list all of his ex-girlfriends on an application. Either he is lying to her, or she is lying to you. There probably are more lies than just that. Why would either of you believe that? Did you actually see that message where he stated he needed to contact ex-girlfriends for his application?

Please forgive me, I know you are going through a tough time here, but you seem a little in the fog. You write that your wife "has really seemed content in her life." You also tell us that she recently went back to college, got a boob job, has told you she never felt "in love" with you, and that you know she felt something was missing. The signs were all there. Sometimes it's tough to see them in the day-to-day hustle and bustle, but surely you can see now that your wife was not at all content.

I think your wife was planning to leave you sooner or later, then this guy came along and she figures now is as good a time as any, she's not getting any younger, and she certainly does not want to spend the rest of her life in a marriage to someone she never was in love with.

As for you, if I were in your shoes, I would have been extremely angry. I know you have two wonderful children to show for it, but your wife married you under false pretenses. What kind of person marries someone they are not in love with, then tells them about it 14 years later in the overall cold manner in which she did this to you? She used you for whatever her reasons were, but she is not a good person to have lied to you about such a basic premise of marriage - being "in love" with the person you are marrying. In a way, she robbed you of a decade of your life.

The first thing you should do is stop engaging with her about this guy. Talk to her only about the kids and the divorce settlement. Be pleasant with her, but also work up a little anger over how she has treated you from day one by lying to you either directly or through omission about being in love with you when she married you.

Don't cut off her phone or internet without speaking to her about it first. Don't make this into a war. Talk to your wife about the divorce settlement, what would be a fair split of income and assets and custody and see if you can come to an agreement. Tell her that you were supporting her financially as she went back to school, but that was when she was your wife. She now has stopped acting in that capacity and plans on leaving you, so you can no longer support her financially, you need the money to start preparing for your own future without her. Tell her that she should split living expenses 50-50 with you going forward, pay for her own phone, split the internet and other housing expenses.

Start living your own life without your wife. Like you are roommates sharing the house and parenting of the kids. Be pleasant, but do not connect on an emotional level with her any more. Be aware, when your wife sees you start to detach, she will turn on the emotions to try to pull you back to her. She is a cake-eater at heart and will not want to lose you, even after she is married to husband number 2. She is selfish. She would be happy if you dedicated your life to always waiting in the wings for her. Don't.


----------



## Will_Kane

I also think it is a huge red flag that she kept her inheritance separate from you and the family, used it only for herself, her college and her boob job. Someone who is committed to marriage and the family puts the inheritance into the family funds and uses them for shared goals. Not saying that she shouldn't use them for college or a boob job, but just that if she was committed to the family and you she would have made it clear that they are family funds to be used for both of you, not just her.


----------



## warlock07

Report the guy to his superiors for adultery and divorce your wife. She is delusional and disgusting. Even if she comes back, it is a matter on when she would do this again.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD THANK YOU! YOU ARE THE MAN!

I started your thread and was thinking, "Jeez another doormat" You are NOT. Just when I think Ill see another "man" leave his balls at the door You come along. You need to cut her a bit harder but overall you get a passing grade. (Unlike that Oklahoma thread I couldnt read past the first post.)

1) Dont be surprised if it is physical or very very close. If you want to know the current situation VAR her car and wherever she talks inside the house Sony Model ICDPX312. They are 50 bucks each at Best Buy. Go to walmart and buy heavy duty velcro and put it UP INSIDE her car seat. STICK IT WELL. DONT buy lesser brands. Warning. NEVER listen to her fvck in her car. If you hear Barney Fife get in the car STOP STOP STOP. You think you are in bad shape now... If you hear another man inside your wife you will 10X your damage. Have a trusted friend listen and give you heads up. I am resident VAR nerd with about 15 busted wives under my belt ATM.

1X) DO NOT ACT AS BABYSITTER SO SHE CAN FVCK HIM!!!!!!!

2) She needs a job NOW. Even if it is Walmart and btw they start people around 9 bucks vs minimum wage.
3) You filed D?
4) REPLACE her after whatever time you need to heal. Younger and hotter is the order of the day. SUCCESS is the best revenge! LIVE A FULL LIFE
5) REPLACE her images in your mind with these. Seems impossible now and you need to heal but statistically you will remarry.
a) First kiss on a girl an you think "this girl has possibilities"
b) First time she does that loose arms around you from the front thing, look into her eyes, you see no guile or guilt. and she is INTO YOU! Shes just happy to be your girl.
c) First sex after first I love yous.


----------



## warlock07

No way he needs to list all of his ex-girlfriends on an application. Either he is lying to her, or she is lying to you. There probably are more lies than just that. Why would either of you believe that? Did you actually see that message where he stated he needed to contact ex-girlfriends for his application?


Yeah, probably she got better at hiding and orchestrated the whole meet up. Or she is just a huge idiot.


----------



## turnera

IDK, I know some police departments require a background check. That may include former long-term associates.

That said, I doubt dating two months qualifies for that.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Actually OM was fishing for a free **** and she too was looking for a way out for yrs (boobjob). 

Expose the A to everybody it may help you to shake her into reality and getting dumped by OM.

Dont you have any free legal aid in your area.

Do the 180, stay away from her BS as much as possible. Make it clear to her that you wont be there to take her back when OM dumps her after banging her As$.


----------



## weightlifter

Since it SOUNDS like it is not PA yet. Make sure that once physical there is ZERO chance at R.

Bye bye. I am NOT plan B

BTW. If she is willing to be an adult uncontested D may be a good option. her inheritence IS hers. half of nothing is nothing. She is gonna do it again I am afraid. Dont bet there are others. Hence my var suggestion.

OP what state? so we can help you figure.

Oh and the answer is yes you should move on... to younger and hotter. It will drive her WILD!

Your kids know mommy has a boyfriend?


----------



## BK23

Chris989 said:


> Her inheritance isn't hers unless you have a post nup to cover it or unless there are sufficient assets elsewhere to cover for the needs of the children and reasonable needs of the spouse.
> 
> This is why you need to see a lawyer. You must be able to get a half hour free to see where you stand. Have you spoken with a lawyer?


Hate to say this, but in most states in the US, you are dead wrong on the inheritance issue.


----------



## turnera

Yep. Inheritances don't go to both spouses.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Wow! I am overwhelmed by the responses....thank you!

Where do I begin. Yes, I saw the message he sent about having to list her on the application. He commented about how he looked up the girl he dated before her and she did not age well but my wife did. She is not normally a naive person but she took this line of BS hook line and sinker. I knew better and told her so. Should I call his superior and report him? Call departments he is applying to as well?

As for her boob job, she wasn't going to do it, I told her she should. She used to be a D but after two kids and a lot of weight loss from a long sickness she just had rocks in socks. She always wanted to get a lift so she would feel better about herself and I support that. So when she got the money I told her to go for it. She didn't go big, in fact most people can't even tell she had anything done. Unfortunately I think that has given her the confidence she needed to walk out. I think she would have stayed till she got through school so she would be supported, then she would have bounced. This ********* just sped it up.

I live in WA. Her grandma had a family trust and the lawyer and her mom made sure that all the inheritance money went into a separate account. As long as she never mixed it with our joint account, it remains hers even in divorce. She has used it to get her boobs, new clothes, she spent thousands on christmas for the family, her school, and booked a cruise for the four of us. We have never been able to take our kids on a real vacation. That is coming up in August and she has already paid for it...over $8k. She has not been seflish with her money but won't use it now to move out and support herself.

I have stopped talking to her about the scumbag. She has password protected her phone and changed the password on her computer now so I am going to tell her that she is coming off my cell phone plan and she needs to get her own. We also had a trip to NY planned...leaving this Fri. I am not going. She will be gone for 11 days in which time I will open a new bank account and change my direct deposit to that account. I will only put enough money in the joint account to cover the bills that come out automatically. I will have a lot of time to spend with the boys and detach.

The boys do not know anything is going on. We are going to sit down together and tell them after she gets back. I got home yesterday and took down all the pictures of us together that are in the house except for a few that the boys would notice. She didn't say a word about it. She came home last night crying because her grandma is on her death bed. Our oldest gave her a hug and said he was sorry and I'm sad to say so did I. It was just a brief hug but I'm trying to keep up appearances for the boys until we tell them.

I'm sure I missed some things I wanted to address from your posts. I will add more later.

Thank you for your support.


----------



## Acoa

Sounds like you are on the right path. Be careful about the keeping up appearances stuff until you tell the kids. They can sense things and you don't want to risk teaching them not to trust their instincts that something is wrong. 

Don't be surprised when she gets back if she asks you to put off telling them a little longer. It will be for some apparently meaningful reason. Tell her you are going to tell them as planned. She is still welcome to join you in that discussion.


----------



## Chris989

BK23 said:


> Hate to say this, but in most states in the US, you are dead wrong on the inheritance issue.


I meant that she will have to use that money. I am not implying it would go to both spouses. If she has money and he has none, she has to use it to support the kids etc. I didn't make my point clear.


----------



## Chris989

hard_to_detach said:


> Wow! I am overwhelmed by the responses....thank you!
> 
> Where do I begin. Yes, I saw the message he sent about having to list her on the application. He commented about how he looked up the girl he dated before her and she did not age well but my wife did. She is not normally a naive person but she took this line of BS hook line and sinker. I knew better and told her so. Should I call his superior and report him? Call departments he is applying to as well?
> 
> As for her boob job, she wasn't going to do it, I told her she should. She used to be a D but after two kids and a lot of weight loss from a long sickness she just had rocks in socks. She always wanted to get a lift so she would feel better about herself and I support that. So when she got the money I told her to go for it. She didn't go big, in fact most people can't even tell she had anything done. Unfortunately I think that has given her the confidence she needed to walk out. I think she would have stayed till she got through school so she would be supported, then she would have bounced. This ********* just sped it up.
> 
> I live in WA. Her grandma had a family trust and the lawyer and her mom made sure that all the inheritance money went into a separate account. As long as she never mixed it with our joint account, it remains hers even in divorce. She has used it to get her boobs, new clothes, she spent thousands on christmas for the family, her school, and booked a cruise for the four of us. We have never been able to take our kids on a real vacation. That is coming up in August and she has already paid for it...over $8k. She has not been seflish with her money but won't use it now to move out and support herself.
> 
> I have stopped talking to her about the scumbag. She has password protected her phone and changed the password on her computer now so I am going to tell her that she is coming off my cell phone plan and she needs to get her own. We also had a trip to NY planned...leaving this Fri. I am not going. She will be gone for 11 days in which time I will open a new bank account and change my direct deposit to that account. I will only put enough money in the joint account to cover the bills that come out automatically. I will have a lot of time to spend with the boys and detach.
> 
> The boys do not know anything is going on. We are going to sit down together and tell them after she gets back. I got home yesterday and took down all the pictures of us together that are in the house except for a few that the boys would notice. She didn't say a word about it. She came home last night crying because her grandma is on her death bed. Our oldest gave her a hug and said he was sorry and I'm sad to say so did I. It was just a brief hug but I'm trying to keep up appearances for the boys until we tell them.
> 
> I'm sure I missed some things I wanted to address from your posts. I will add more later.
> 
> Thank you for your support.


I admire your approach, but there seems a lot of "going to".

Make it "did" instead.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I found his girlfriend on FB. She lives closer to us than him, so they are in a long distance relationship but she drives the 150 miles to see him on a regular basis. In fact, she went and picked up his kids from his ex and drove back to his house so he could meet with my stbx. I'm pretty sure she didn't know why he had her do that. He was here doing physical tests for the application process at several departments and was supposedly doing a ride along. She probably just thinks he was busy with that. I keep going back and forth. Should I let her know what is going on? So far all they have done is talk and text. My stbx says that he is going to tell her after some family renunion they have coming up because he doesn't want to disturb it. (my stbx is so delusional, it's really unlike her to be like this)

What will this do for me? Should I tell her?


----------



## weightlifter

Dont take her off the cell plan until after you file. You lose rights and an intelligence source.

Konusb will get you on the comp.

Damn im on a roll today


----------



## turnera

Of course you tell his gf. Tonight.


----------



## alte Dame

I would expose to the gf asap without mentioning anything to your stbxw. I would think hard about what to do to f*ck up the OM's job applications. There should be suggestions to come for that, I'm sure. The most obvious right away and the easiest is to post him on cheaterville.com (mentioned already). 

I would go to the mattresses against this guy.


----------



## Chris989

Yes! Telling her might bust the pos out of the fog and your 'wife' will come tumbling after. Make this your number one priority today!

Do it first thing. Time is of the essence here.


----------



## Chaparral

Put him on cheaterville.com , anyone that googles him,I.e. employers will see it. Call his girlfriend and tell her the whole story. Find out where he applied and call them.
This is very effective, costs nothing and may bust up their affair.

Do this now, you do not have time to waste.


----------



## weightlifter

Im not the biggest fan of employer exposure but if they use the employer excuse. Make sure he never gets one of those local positions.


----------



## Shaggy

You are fighting for your family,

Thus affair is what is breaking it up,

Exposé to the GF , cheaterville, and the place he is applying for heavens sake. Why would you not use every means at your disposal ?

Also put a VAR in her car so you can hear what they are saying when calling each other?

He is breaking up your family.

And sorry, but they've had sex. She wouldn't be leaving you for him without a test drive.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Last night I asked her about a small amount of money she took out of our joint account and asked her why she used it for something for herself. She flipped out and started throwing all the instances where she has spent her money on me and the family and how for the last year she has used her own money to buy the things she needs for herself. I pointed out that since she doesn't want to be my wife anymore and is dating another man that the money in our joint account is only to be used for family expenses and anything for her, she needs to use her own money. This infuriated her.

She doesn't think there is anything wrong with her phone relationship with this guy. I told her she is in a long distance relationship, that's how people do long distance relationships...she just sees it as two friends talking. She said she has told her dad what is going on and according to her he is dealing with it and just wants her to be happy. I doubt she told him about the OM, probably just the way she is feeling.

It is very clear that this marriage is over and there is no hope of salvaging it...not that I even want to. My head has been telling me it is time to move on but my heart hasn't wanted to let go of the love I have felt for her for so long. If we can keep things civil, we should be able to do this as an uncontested divorce and keep the lawyers out of it. We both want shared custody and agree that it is best if the boys stay in the schools they are in and we disrupt their lives the least. She is saying that since we will be sharing custody there should be no need for child support from me but I can see at least having to pay for one of the boys.

The hard part is that until she finds a job, she is stuck living with me and won't move out and won't leave the boys. She met with the job resource couselor at the college to get help with her resume and the job hunt. I am hoping this trip will give us the time and distance we need to get this moving faster. She is going to file when she gets back and we will sit down and tell the boys together.

Has anyone ever heard of a success story of two people living together after divorce?


----------



## turnera

hard_to_detach said:


> She doesn't think there is anything wrong with her phone relationship with this guy.


You should have picked up the phone that very instant and called her dad and told him what she just said.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> Last night I asked her about a small amount of money she took out of our joint account and asked her why she used it for something for herself. She flipped out and started throwing all the instances where she has spent her money on me and the family and how for the last year she has used her own money to buy the things she needs for herself. I pointed out that since she doesn't want to be my wife anymore and is dating another man that the money in our joint account is only to be used for family expenses and anything for her, she needs to use her own money. This infuriated her.
> 
> She doesn't think there is anything wrong with her phone relationship with this guy. I told her she is in a long distance relationship, that's how people do long distance relationships...she just sees it as two friends talking. She said she has told her dad what is going on and according to her he is dealing with it and just wants her to be happy. I doubt she told him about the OM, probably just the way she is feeling.
> 
> It is very clear that this marriage is over and there is no hope of salvaging it...not that I even want to. My head has been telling me it is time to move on but my heart hasn't wanted to let go of the love I have felt for her for so long. If we can keep things civil, we should be able to do this as an uncontested divorce and keep the lawyers out of it. We both want shared custody and agree that it is best if the boys stay in the schools they are in and we disrupt their lives the least. She is saying that since we will be sharing custody there should be no need for child support from me but I can see at least having to pay for one of the boys.
> 
> The hard part is that until she finds a job, she is stuck living with me and won't move out and won't leave the boys. She met with the job resource couselor at the college to get help with her resume and the job hunt. I am hoping this trip will give us the time and distance we need to get this moving faster. She is going to file when she gets back and we will sit down and tell the boys together.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of a success story of two people living together after divorce?


Are you going to listen to anything anyone says here?


----------



## hard_to_detach

Yes, I am listening to the advice here. I only ask about living together after divorce because most likely she will not be in a position to move out before the divorce is final. We can set it up so that we each have a room and live like roommates. Just wondering if that is even possible.


----------



## turnera

You're not seriously sleeping in the same bed with her, are you?


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> Yes, I am listening to the advice here. I only ask about living together after divorce because most likely she will not be in a position to move out before the divorce is final. We can set it up so that we each have a room and live like roommates. Just wondering if that is even possible.


Why are you supporting or agreeing to support a woman who has obviously discarded you 4 years ago? 

Hey i'm similar to you in that regard. Ex-wife told me 2 years ago she was in love with another man. I made the mistake of not exposing it. 

Read this. Mistake. 2 years later, she did it again, left me and our kid, I had to tell her Father who accused me of not being a committed husband that this was the 2nd time this had happened. Only this time. She walked out the door.

All this was much to his surprise and much not to his surprise at all. So no, don't even agree to be live in roommates. You already have been for 4 years. If she can't afford it, and you can, offer to take the kids off her hands and let her have the love she always wanted with this cop. 

Then take solace in the fact that you are being the responsible parent and the real spouse in this fake marriage.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> Last night I asked her about a small amount of money she took out of our joint account and asked her why she used it for something for herself. She flipped out and started throwing all the instances where she has spent her money on me and the family and how for the last year she has used her own money to buy the things she needs for herself. I pointed out that since she doesn't want to be my wife anymore and is dating another man that the money in our joint account is only to be used for family expenses and anything for her, she needs to use her own money. This infuriated her.
> 
> She doesn't think there is anything wrong with her phone relationship with this guy. I told her she is in a long distance relationship, that's how people do long distance relationships...she just sees it as two friends talking. She said she has told her dad what is going on and according to her he is dealing with it and just wants her to be happy. I doubt she told him about the OM, probably just the way she is feeling.
> 
> It is very clear that this marriage is over and there is no hope of salvaging it...not that I even want to. My head has been telling me it is time to move on but my heart hasn't wanted to let go of the love I have felt for her for so long. If we can keep things civil, we should be able to do this as an uncontested divorce and keep the lawyers out of it. We both want shared custody and agree that it is best if the boys stay in the schools they are in and we disrupt their lives the least. She is saying that since we will be sharing custody there should be no need for child support from me but I can see at least having to pay for one of the boys.
> 
> The hard part is that until she finds a job, she is stuck living with me and won't move out and won't leave the boys. She met with the job resource couselor at the college to get help with her resume and the job hunt. I am hoping this trip will give us the time and distance we need to get this moving faster. She is going to file when she gets back and we will sit down and tell the boys together.
> 
> Has anyone ever heard of a success story of two people living together after divorce?



Deposit your check into your own account. Let her flip out. Keep a VAR on at all times you interact with her. When she complains about the empty shared account laugh at her. Right to her face. Call her dad, tell him what is going on. Then tell her to ask her BF for money for lipstick. 

Don't debate with her what constitutes an affair. You know what is going on, everyone here on TAM knows what is going on. All that is left it to expose to her family and friends what is going on. Just explain her behavior, and that she wants out of the marriage because she has met someone else. You have to explain to everyone that because she has chosen to involve another man in your marriage that YOU are divorcing her. Explain to family and friend she talks to him 3 hours a day in the family home and that you object to staying with anyone who would so disrespect you and your children in such a fashion. 

Of course she has not told her father the truth, which is why you must.

Now if you believe she is going to keep the divorce civil good luck with that. She, like a snake will turn on you the second she does not get her way. My advice to you is not believe a word she says about civil and amicable and just lawyer up right away. You will be sorry later if you don't. Seriously, are you going to believe one word she says? 

Stop letting her drive. Take the reins of your marriage and your future.Seriously.


----------



## hard_to_detach

She is in NY now. I went and talked to her dad about all of this. She did tell him everything...well...almost everything. She told him about the OM now but didn't tell him about the last six years and what she's done before. He is devastated and told her she is making the biggest mistake of her life. He supports me and told me that fighting for our marriage is fine but I need to get a lawyer. I am getting one today. I know ultimately, she is his daughter, and he will eventually accept whatever she chooses.

She left on Friday and I have had very little contact with her since, none since Saturday. She called Saturday night because I had gone to a funeral for a close family friend and she was worried about me. I told her how it went and told her about all the people that said hi to her but kept it very matter of fact and haven't talked or texted her since.

I looked at her email and found an email she sent the POSOM while waiting at the airport. She was professing her love for him and talked about how she feels about him. She openly talked about them getting married and their future together. She is fully head over heels in love with this guy. The things she said to him I have never gotten from her. I don't think this is a fog she is going to come out of....this is how she feels and doesn't feel this way about me and never will. It is very clear to me now that I need to move on...this relationship is over.

I am calling a lawyer today and am preparing myself for what is to come. The pain in my heart is greater than anything I have ever experience.


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> I am calling a lawyer today and am preparing myself for what is to come. The pain in my heart is greater than anything I have ever experience.


Call a lawyer. Have the lawyer draw up papers that puts you as the majority custody parent (if you have children, thought you said you did.) and give them to her/have them mailed to her. 

Forward that letter off to her Father. Saying that you don't need any more evidence. No hard feelings towards him, but you must do what you must do now.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

HTD, this affair has obviously been going on longer than you know. That being said get the lawyer today and serve her asap. As suggested file for custody. Follow the advice here, many on TAM have seen this movie before. 

Limit conversations with her to absolute necessities concerning the kids. the rest can go through the attorneys. Don't let her disrespect you any more. Start the detachment process, full 180. Your heart will heal quicker. 

I hope you put POS cop on cheaterville. He is breaking up a family and the world should know including his future command.


----------



## Hardtohandle

hard_to_detach said:


> The pain in my heart is greater than anything I have ever experience.


It sure is.. 
Its like grieving for the death of a loved one repeatedly. The hard part is they are still alive.

The sad part is it will get worse for you. This is just the beginning. You will come up days where you will find it almost impossible to carry on and get out of bed. 

It will be those days that you just need to literally just drag yourself out and go to work. Even if you do nothing at work, just go. Anything to get out of the house and away from her.

Trust me that you need to cut off all ties ASAP for your own mental health. The best thing for me was when she took over her own cell phone bill and I couldn't see it anymore. That alone brought my stress levels way down.

Nonetheless your doing what I did. Your trying to be nice and polite and try to understand what she is going through. Sadly yet again it will NOT work.

You need to be GTFO. Take your Sh1t and go. 

Separate your bills and finances and try to continue on without her. 

You need to put doubt in her head if anything. sort of like Okay B1tch, you want to go ? Then go.. I have this piece of a$$ waiting for me right here.. 

Trust me when I tell you dating today is not like it was. You can walk into a older bar ( people in 40s ) and walk out to get laid.. Women in their 40s are much more straight forward today. 

Getting laid just once will help honestly as well. Its sad but true..

But this is the woman she always was.. What she did with you was a lie. People tend to put forward what others expect. Instead of being their true self to their partner, so their partner can make a real decision on the relationship. They put on this mask and pretend to be something they are not. Basically one BIG LIE. Some people will eventually over time during the dating period relax and put their guard down and show the true self. You either then conform or then decide to break it off with them because you never seen this type of person before. 

Then there are others like my wife that will keep that secret for YEARS.

End result the lies usually catch up to you. 

Again how do I know because I have been through this already. My wife did it 4 times to me. I thought that she might look back at the 19 years together and say wow I have a guy that has been by my side through everything I put him through. I can't do this to him. We have 2 kids together. 

But NOPE.........

Sorry but fvck you and the kids.. I need to be true to myself.

She didn't say the FU part but she did say the true to myself part. She said we didn't have chemistry.. I thought that was something you figured out BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED AND HAVE 2 KIDS AND WAIT 19 YEARS LATER.

I guess not..

My wife seems to be attracted to the low life gangster type. The live day by day type. 

When she moved out it was the best thing for me and I knew it because the cell phone bill taught me a lesson. Once she moved out I could no longer track her and slowly cared less about what she was doing.

Trust me I still have my issues and I am still learning on how to Detach like you. 

But find someone that loves you. That is happy to be with you. Look even if you meet another woman, this other woman is still better because she has not done anything to you. She comes to you with a clean slate.. 

Trust me when I say I am happy for my 2 boys, but to have the realization that the last 19 years of my life have been a lie and the only good thing out of it was 2 kids is hard to swallow sometimes.

Knowing what I know today and it has only been 6 months since she actually told me she was done. I wish I would have left her 7 years ago. 1 year after my youngest was born on attempt number 3.. I wouldn't have wasted 7 years of my life on her. I could have been 7 years into a new relationship with someone who LOVES ME..


But if anything take the time to read my post in my signature titled my mistakes and learn what NOT to do. If anything its good for a few laughs at my expense..


----------



## hard_to_detach

Does it matter who files? Will it benefit me to file?


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> Does it matter who files? Will it benefit me to file?


Depends on how you want to approach it. 

If you have kids, and she truly is in an affair. This is your chance to get what you want out of life while all she thinks about is how great life is with her new shiny toy. 

Deceptive? Make you feel underhanded? Shady? Don't let it. Fight for the preservation of what you believed and worked for. To me, filing was my way of saying a number of things. 
# I will tolerate no more. 
# I deserve better.
# I actually want to preserve what I obviously worked to build alone. 
# Here is the parent plan. I'll take those icky kids off your hands.

Several betrayed spouses here have gotten majority or near full time sharing arrangements because they made the first crucial step. 

I wont lie, lately I've spent several nights up late crying about it. Not because I feel so terrible, or love my ex-wife so much. But because I promised myself, that once things were secure. I would.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> Does it matter who files? Will it benefit me to file?


Yes!!! It matters. She has to respond to the facts you outline in the petition. In the petition you outline custody, child support and division of asserts. If she does not respond to petition (highly unlikely) you win by default.

Also, by filing quickly you are showing her the reality of the situation. She might change her mind and try and come back. You get to decide if you want her back and under what conditions.


----------



## Hardtohandle

hard_to_detach said:


> Does it matter who files? Will it benefit me to file?


No it doesn't matter..

Many states are no fault. Basically we don't get along anymore so we are getting a divorce.

The courts also in many states don't care about adultery unless you can prove it has or had an affect on the children. EG Wayward goes out and leaves children unattended at home to meet with POSOM... Straight out abandonment. But it REALLY has to be proven..

What I can tell you is don't be in a rush to get this done. I know it's hard but because my STBXW waited several months I ended up with custody of my oldest. 

If SHE would have signed 6 months ago. She would have had both kids and I would be paying 1400 a month now. Today I pay 700 and have custody of a child she can NEVER take away from be barring something crazy from me, which is not going to happen.

I let my wife know at every twist and turn she ruined me emotionally. Guilt works wonders.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Yes!!! It matters. She has to respond to the facts you outline in the petition. In the petition you outline custody, child support and division of asserts. If she does not respond to petition (highly unlikely) you win by default.
> 
> Also, by filing quickly you are showing her the reality of the situation. She might change her mind and try and come back. You get to decide if you want her back and under what conditions.


I didn't read the question this way. But this holds true as well.


----------



## hope4family

I think both sides will agree, that consulting a lawyer should have already been done. 

@Hardtohandle - Every situation is different. If you hold out, you might get what you want. 

In my case, holding out was giving her what she wanted. A new life, car, apartment, the child, yada yada yada.


----------



## hard_to_detach

WA State is a no fault, community property state. My take on this is that I want her to file. I made a vow and intend to stand by that vow. If she wants out, she can file...as long as I don't lose any upperhand I'd have by filing.


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> WA State is a no fault, community property state. My take on this is that I want her to file. I made a vow and intend to stand by that vow. If she wants out, she can file...as long as I don't lose any upperhand I'd have by filing.


That's debatable. Talk to a lawyer.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> WA State is a no fault, community property state. My take on this is that I want her to file. I made a vow and intend to stand by that vow. If she wants out, she can file...as long as I don't lose any upperhand I'd have by filing.


I hate to say it but she has clearly broken those vows. 

You gain nothing in the divorce by waiting for her to file. She can string this along while she decides does she really want a divorce. In the meantime you are in limbo. Just file is my advice. Get it over with. The longer everyone waits is just more pain felt of the inevitable. 

Question: Has she moved out? You mentioned she is in NY. May I ask why?


----------



## hard_to_detach

No, she has not moved out. We had planned this trip to NY over a month ago. It was to be the longest trip we have ever taken as a married couple. We had so many fun activities planned and time with her extended family. Even after D-day, she still said she wanted me to go, she wanted to share this experience. I asked her if she could commit to not call or text the OM while we were there. She thought about it for a day and came back and said she couldn't commit to that. (but she'd make sure I didn't see her doing it, because she didnt' want to flaunt it in my face) I told her that if she wanted to go on the trip with me, then she wouldn't share it with him too. This time apart is helping me detach.


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> No, she has not moved out. We had planned this trip to NY over a month ago. It was to be the longest trip we have ever taken as a married couple. We had so many fun activities planned and time with her extended family. Even after D-day, she still said she wanted me to go, she wanted to share this experience. I asked her if she could commit to not call or text the OM while we were there. She thought about it for a day and came back and said she couldn't commit to that. (but she'd make sure I didn't see her doing it, because she didnt' want to flaunt it in my face) I told her that if she wanted to go on the trip with me, then she wouldn't share it with him too. This time apart is helping me detach.


I'm about to be very hard on you. 

Divorce her. She has broken her vows, she doesn't respect you or your boundary's. If he is out of town now, make that appointment, try to have the papers ready by when she gets back.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hope4family said:


> I'm about to be very hard on you.
> 
> Divorce her. She has broken her vows, she doesn't respect you or your boundary's. If he is out of town now, make that appointment, try to have the papers ready by when she gets back.


i agree. She again has placed him over you and family.


----------



## weightlifter

NY = OM? I wonder if he is there now. WTF is she gonna do alone there.
Did you get any var info?

Dude you made vows. They are two way vows. Once she broke hers you ARE RELEASED!

IF you are a christian even the bible give you an out now.

Wake up. She is using you as plan B. Dont allow this. Do what the lawyer says. She cant be fixed.

Also tho audultry often means little as far as money. It will sometimes remove or reduce waiting periods.

Oh and the funny thing about some of the advice above. AFTER you fife and AFTER your lawyer says it cant hurt you.

Go to a place with women your age and get laid. Poon is SUPERGLUE for your shattered ego. you WILL feel like a new man. With your ego partly fixed your heart will start to follow and heal faster tho that is a more gradual process.


----------



## Shaggy

Post him on cheaterville now, and begin created strife in their relationship by bring grief to him. Right now he is free to pursue your wife with out care or worry.


----------



## Chris989

I divorced my (now ex) wife because she broke the vows. We are still together but we had no marriage. To remain "married" was a lie as the marriage was over the second she had sex with another man.

As such, I felt a hypocrite by staying married and marriage is something I believe in.

By refusing to commence a divorce when your wife has broken her vows is a sign of you accepting what she has done. To me, it shows that marriage does not mean what it should to you. 

You are allowing marriage to be made a mockery of by this woman and she knows it.

As long as you tolerate this behaviour- which is what you are doing by staying married - she will continue with it.

You are no longer her husband, but you are her enabler.

Divorce her if you have a shred of respect for you, or what marriage actually means.


----------



## Tony55

hard_to_detach said:


> *I asked her if she could commit to not call or text the OM while we were there. **She thought about it for a day* and came back and said she couldn't commit to that. (but she'd make sure I didn't see her doing it, because she didnt' want to flaunt it in my face).


For future reference, when you find yourself wondering about what went wrong, just refer back to the quote above. You think your wife is leaving you because she met another man, I say she met another man because she didn't want to be with the guy who would ask the above question and let her think about it for a day! How do I know this? It's tucked away in her answer, _"she'd make sure I didn't see her doing it, because she didn't want to flaunt it in my face"_. Indeed she didn't, she pity's you, and that's a bad, bad place to be. She has no respect for you, she thinks you are pitiful, people have a hard time falling head over heels for someone they pity.

Hard_to_detach, I know how painful this is, I also know that you can't save this, and any attempt you may make (consciously or unconsciously) will make it harder on you; the fact that you're even entertaining living together after the divorce just reinforces the whole point I'm making here.

Let me tell you this, no matter what happens in your life, you'll never be able to divorce yourself from yourself, you're stuck with you forever, anything you do now, you'll live with forever. So you need to decide what kind of man you want to be in this, and whatever that is, right now is the time to start, and hopefully, you'll learn from this and you won't bring the above guy (the old you) to the next relationship.

Good luck, my friend

T


----------



## hard_to_detach

You are right tony but I didn't let her think about it though, as soon as she didn't respond with ok, I knew it was over, I was just telling that she took a day before responding. I know the mistakes I made that led to this and I am not going to be that man ever again. Thank you for the hard truth, it helps me.


----------



## Chris989

hard_to_detach said:


> You are right tony but I didn't let her think about it though, as soon as she didn't respond with ok, I knew it was over, I was just telling that she took a day before responding. I know the mistakes I made that led to this and I am not going to be that man ever again. Thank you for the hard truth, it helps me.


Hang on here.

There are two fundamental errors in this reply:

1) YOU DID NOT MAKE MISTAKES WHICH LED TO YOUR WIFE CHEATING. She CHOSE to cheat.

A marriage can break down. That can be someone's fault (often shared). Cheating is one person's fault. The cheater. Your actions have no bearing on this. Zero. 

Until you realise this, you will not and cannot understand what has happened here.

2) You can save this. Be harder on this woman. Show her that you are not an option open to her. Show her it's that POS or nothing. 

It may be a slim chance, but it's a chance.

The thing is - do you want to save it?


----------



## Lovemytruck

Hard,

I like you last post because you show in a few words that you have honest resolve to battle through this.

The posts you have been given are on target, IMO.

You are at one of the most difficult points in the process, deciding that it really is a mess, and you need to file.

It will be ok. The D is actually not all bad. It is a path that lets you regain your dignity, find new people, and heal yourself.

Hang tough!


----------



## hope4family

Also so you start the "D" process. 

Filing doesn't permanently close the door. 

Divorce itself doesn't permanently close a door. 

That being said, it becomes less likely with each step. But in my mind, you have already been replaced. Your boys are young enough, show them both that you respect yourself, and that you value them above a cheating woman every day of the week. 

I don't like bringing children in as motivation. Lord knows I have my own son. So I don't use it as a manipulation tool for you. But if you want your sons to be better then you, like I want my sons to be better then me, then you need to stand up for yourself. 

Regain your respect, honor, and dignity as a husband and a Father. She has defiled what you held sacred on multiple accounts, and you have forgiven her or attempted to each time. 

I'll say it again, tell her matter of factually. She and her lover can ride off into the sunset. You'll take the boys of her hands. She gets a fresh clean start. You retain your dignity as a Father. She can have them every other weekend with visitation in between.


----------



## weightlifter

Is the OM in NY with her? If they have sealed the deal now as opposed to before I see zero logic for stopping the D.

It shows she can escalate the affair AND use him as plan b.


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> No, she has not moved out. We had planned this trip to NY over a month ago. It was to be the longest trip we have ever taken as a married couple. We had so many fun activities planned and time with her extended family. Even after D-day, she still said she wanted me to go, she wanted to share this experience. I asked her if she could commit to not call or text the OM while we were there. She thought about it for a day and came back and said she couldn't commit to that. (but she'd make sure I didn't see her doing it, because she didnt' want to flaunt it in my face) I told her that if she wanted to go on the trip with me, then she wouldn't share it with him too. This time apart is helping me detach.


What the f*ck !!!


----------



## warlock07

Have you reported the OM ?


----------



## hard_to_detach

She is not in NY with the OM. She is visiting family.

I know I am not to blame for her cheating, I am just saying that I am aware of what I have done to bring our relationship to this point. I know that she is to blame for her affairs.

I talked to a lawyer today. I explained what is going on and he said that I gain nothing legally by filing and that as long as she is willing to work out the details without a lawyer and agrees to joint custody then I should play ball. If she starts to get nasty and go back on what she has agreed then he can get involved. He said that what I detailed is ultimately what they try to accomplish.

I am going to play along with her while protecting myself and stay completely disconnected. If things start going south I will retain the lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris989

This may be blunt to the point of rudeness, but you just guaranteed that your marriage is over.


----------



## hard_to_detach

How is that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris989

As it stands, your marriage - and relationship with this woman - is effectively over.

You seem to have resigned yourself to waiting for her to come back to you, whilst "doing the 180".

As far as she is concerned, it's business as usual. 

You still have the option of living with you on the table for her.

She wins either way. If it doesn't work out with this POS, she knows you're keeping the bills paid and bed warm. If it does, then you're out of the picture. Tough luck to you my man.

In my opinion (and I believe that is shared by many others on here - remember we have been through this crud already), you have to give her consequences.

The can only be:

- divorce (not "chatting to a lawyer")
- kicking her out.

You might not be able to kick her out legally, but you can divorce her.

She doesn't think you are serious and, being honest, I might agree with her.

This sounds harsh, but it's desperate measures for desperate times.


----------



## Chris989

hard_to_detach said:


> If things start going south I will retain the lawyer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I meant to add re: the above:

How could things go _further_ South than they are now? Seriously.


----------



## Chaparral

Your acting lie a door mat. You haven't done one thing that has been suggested. The reason she is leaving is because the cop takes what he wants. On the other hand she doesn't see you as manly at all.

Number one you did not fight for your marriage, you just let him have her. Did you call his boss? Did you put him on cheaterville .com to screw up his job search? Did you get in touch with his girlfriend/family? Did you contact the police depts in your area he is applying to?

I doubt he even wants your wife, he just wants laid.

Have you read the two books linked to in my signature?

You have given up in record time.


----------



## turnera

What books have you read?


----------



## kenmoore14217

People want to help you but if you are not helping yourself what's the use??


----------



## Shaggy

Let me say what others are trying to without being accusatory,

You do have reasonable actions in your power to take to address the situation, you do not have to roll over and let it just happen while you sit back feeling hurt and upset.

When you were just dating , as a guy you are taught to respect the choice by another person to end your bf-gf relationships and let the other person move on and date the next guy.

The rules change when you get married. Your spouse gave you their vow, they pledge to be with you. That's a moral, social, and legal contract with you.

It's ok to stand up and fight back when someone is choosing to not honor their contract.

And stop worrying that if you get her upset that you'll either loose her for sure, or will make your D harder. If you can end the affair you might just save your family. Others have succeeded. 

The key is to kill the affair first. She won't be putting any effort into fixing your marriage while her too effort is in the affair.

1- go after the OM by interfering with his life. Call where he is looking for a job. Post him on cheaterville.

2- expose the affair and the OM by name to your friends and family

3- hire a PI to dig up the OMs life story, especially any women he is currently involved with, expose to them 

4. Cut off the means your wife is using to continue the affair. Deprive her of the freedom, like free time and phones to contact him. Basically C-block her


----------



## weightlifter

What shaggy said.

IF she has not screwed, file without a lawyer and tell her you want to work this out lawyerless. You can go slow on it but you have to scare her. If she suddenly snaps out of it. Usual NC, transparency etc.

OP. 
***AFAYK they have not sealed the deal yet?(screwed) ***
If she has. File and use the fog against her. She has to know if she screws him your bed is forever gone.


----------



## warlock07

His wife is not marriage material. If it took her two weeks of meeting a new guy to dump her H of 15 years, she is a nut bag that OP doesn't deserve. I hope he moves on, however devastating it is for him right now.

But OM, he needs to be exposed to his department on how he is seeking out married women under false pretenses.


----------



## hope4family

warlock07 said:


> His wife is not marriage material. If it took her two weeks of meeting a new guy to dump her H of 15 years, she is a nut bag that OP doesn't deserve. I hope he moves on, however devastating it is for him right now.
> 
> But OM, he needs to be exposed to his department on how he is seeking out married women under false pretenses.


If I read the story right. This isn't the first time his wife has done this. There have been others. 

When will enough be enough for him? She can do as she pleases but never have real consequences. He needs to stop thinking consequences is a bad word. 

With a name like hard_to_dettach i'm not surprised he has problems moving on. Hey look at my name, I hoped I could see my family through my ex-wifes affairs. 

But you can't control anyone. At some point, there must be a consequence.


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> You are right tony but I didn't let her think about it though, as soon as she didn't respond with ok, I knew it was over, I was just telling that she took a day before responding. I know the mistakes I made that led to this and I am not going to be that man ever again. Thank you for the hard truth, it helps me.


A way to be that new man is to hand her D papers when she walks in the door.

Meet with an attorney and plan it out.

And do yourself another favor, treat her just the way she treats you.

Pity her.

For her stupidity. She values an old BF from 17 years ago more than she does her marriage, husband and family.

Her boobies were more important to her than you of the kids.

Remember that. Use these new emotions and D her. Replace her with someone a lot better.

It wont be hard.

HM64


----------



## hard_to_detach

At this point, I don't want her back. The only way I would even consider it is if she came to me begging to take her back and even then it would be based on some very different dynamics in our future relationship.

I just got off the phone with the lead hiring manager for one of the departments he is applying. She said that his actions are not those of someone they want on their force and he is at a stage of the process where she can disqualify him without reason....one down a few more to go. She was very nice and did confirm that they ask for basic info on all previous relationships and looked up his application and confirmed that he did list my wife but said he didn't have her contact info. 

She also backed up info I recieved from another cop, that even if I went to his current department, since it is very small, they likely wouldn't do anything since he isn't meeting up with her while he is on duty.

I am waiting for responses from more departments so I can blow his job search out of the water.


----------



## turnera

Woohoo! You da man!

And isn't it funny that he listed that he didn't have her contact info? "Yes, ma'am, I know the man; in fact, I'm cheating on my husband with him."


----------



## doubletrouble

hard_to_detach said:


> WA State is a no fault, community property state. My take on this is that I want her to file. I made a vow and intend to stand by that vow. If she wants out, she can file...as long as I don't lose any upperhand I'd have by filing.


I'm in WA state as well, and it's no-fault. I got my divorce in Idaho, since that's where most of our property is/was. The attys I consulted were licensed in both states, since we're near the border. it doesn't matter who files, it doesn't give you any advantage legally. 

However, it may give you a psychological advantage. I'd file first (did) to let her know the gig's up and the game's on.


----------



## hope4family

Yeah, the pretense of filing first. Was if you put in what you want for the divorce and she says "ok". 

Then in my mind. You both got what you wanted, even if it was in your favor.


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> At this point, I don't want her back. The only way I would even consider it is if she came to me begging to take her back and even then it would be based on some very different dynamics in our future relationship.
> 
> I just got off the phone with the lead hiring manager for one of the departments he is applying. She said that his actions are not those of someone they want on their force and he is at a stage of the process where she can disqualify him without reason....one down a few more to go. She was very nice and did confirm that they ask for basic info on all previous relationships and looked up his application and confirmed that he did list my wife but said he didn't have her contact info.
> 
> She also backed up info I recieved from another cop, that even if I went to his current department, since it is very small, they likely wouldn't do anything since he isn't meeting up with her while he is on duty.
> 
> I am waiting for responses from more departments so I can blow his job search out of the water.


Expose him to his department, regardless..


----------



## Chris989

hard_to_detach said:


> At this point, I don't want her back. The only way I would even consider it is if she came to me begging to take her back and even then it would be based on some very different dynamics in our future relationship.
> 
> I just got off the phone with the lead hiring manager for one of the departments he is applying. She said that his actions are not those of someone they want on their force and he is at a stage of the process where she can disqualify him without reason....one down a few more to go. She was very nice and did confirm that they ask for basic info on all previous relationships and looked up his application and confirmed that he did list my wife but said he didn't have her contact info.
> 
> She also backed up info I recieved from another cop, that even if I went to his current department, since it is very small, they likely wouldn't do anything since he isn't meeting up with her while he is on duty.
> 
> I am waiting for responses from more departments so I can blow his job search out of the water.


I am relieved and pleased that you are taking action.

I don't believe that you don't want your wife back, however, as you have not acted like that or, in fact, stated that so far.

I am saying this because it is easy for pride to take over in these situations. If I am wrong, then apologies, but if you want to leave the door open - in case you change your mind - then, begin the divorce process. It is all you have left besides going after the OM.

I was lucky; I went after the OM and he immediately caved in. Just to make sure, however, I continued to go after him. Then, just in case, I carried on. The rest was just for revenge - as the next steps will be and I am looking forward to those the most. Then, just in case my wife didn't get the point, I divorced her. For what it's worth, she has proved beyond doubt that she wants *me*.

That being said, you might not be that "lucky". Your wife went nuclear on your marriage. She totally blew it up. What have you got to lose at this point by reciprocating? You have an awful lot to gain. I know, because it worked for me and I really, really, want it to work for you and your children.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Don't get me wrong, I want nothing more than for my marriage to be saved and work but I know it cannot work the way it has been for the last 6 years. My parents have been married 50 years, my sister 25 years, my brother 24 years, and my other brother 16 years. I come from a family that believes in marriage and works to keep them happy. My wife and I have been through a lot, early on in our marriage and at a young age. I stood by my wife through her darkest hours and literally nursed her back to health both physically, mentally, and emotionally. That is why it hurts so bad to have her pull this on me.

There will always be a part of me that will hold out hope and if that time comes I will accept her back but with stipulations and boundaries. She said she would file and carry the majority of the financial burden that will entail so right now I am trying to decide how long I will give her to follow through. I am thinking two weeks from the day she gets back if she has not filed I will. Between that and the pain I am currently heaping on that POSOM if she doesn't come to her senses she never will.

Her grandma was married like 8 times and her mom is on her 3rd marriage that she is about to walk away from. Both of them either chose the wrong men or just got bored and wanted something different. My wife has been married to me for longer than either of them had ever been married to one person and she knows she has in her family and has fought to not be like them. 

The last couple days have been pretty good, I feel like I am gaining the strength to get through this but I still have some bad times. I am already dreading her coming back, it has been nice without her and spending time with my boys.

I have stopped checking up on her and am just focusing on myself. The things she has said to him about her feelings really hurt. I would almost feel better if it was just physical and she just needed to scratch an itch. The emotional connection she thinks she has and her declaration of love is very painful. Especially when she says that she has never felt that for me.

I am not a wealthy man and we have struggled financially our entire marriage so I know it is not my money she has stayed for. We have just been one of those couples that are very compatible and enjoy each other's company and have always found a way to be happy even without money. She was a very caring person and always helping others, always looking for the good in people and giving them the benefit of the doubt. She still displays some of those qualities to others...just not me. I don't recognize this selfish creature who used to be my wife. There is no way I want to R while she is like this and I don't see her changing.

I'm rambling and need to get some work done.

Thank you everyone for the butt kicking and support.


----------



## whowouldhavethought

hard_to_detach said:


> She also backed up info I recieved from another cop, that even if I went to his current department, since it is very small, they likely wouldn't do anything since he isn't meeting up with her while he is on duty.


Complain like hell. Here is the situation. You complain and a file gets opened. They do nothing for you. Next person comes along and complains. Another file gets opened and this time there is a conversation between him and his boss. Next person comes along and all h*ll breaks loose.. Who knows you might be complainer #3.

WWHT


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Expose him to his department, regardless..


Definitely, there may be a reason he is looking for another job. He may already be on thin ice. His boss may not like cheaters either.

Contact his girlfriend, she may have info about him you need.

I would do everything in my power to keep him from becoming my kids step dad. Especially a daughter.


----------



## MattMatt

> *He is a cop and is moving to be closer to his kids and needs to list all of his ex-girlfriends on his applications.*


Seriously? This is what a cop has to do? :scratchhead:

I somehow doubt this is true. Can someone confirm this? Or was cop spinning a line?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> Don't get me wrong, I want nothing more than for my marriage to be saved and work but I know it cannot work the way it has been for the last 6 years. My parents have been married 50 years, my sister 25 years, my brother 24 years, and my other brother 16 years. I come from a family that believes in marriage and works to keep them happy. My wife and I have been through a lot, early on in our marriage and at a young age. I stood by my wife through her darkest hours and literally nursed her back to health both physically, mentally, and emotionally. That is why it hurts so bad to have her pull this on me.
> 
> There will always be a part of me that will hold out hope and if that time comes I will accept her back but with stipulations and boundaries. She said she would file and carry the majority of the financial burden that will entail so right now I am trying to decide how long I will give her to follow through. I am thinking two weeks from the day she gets back if she has not filed I will. Between that and the pain I am currently heaping on that POSOM if she doesn't come to her senses she never will.
> 
> Her grandma was married like 8 times and her mom is on her 3rd marriage that she is about to walk away from. Both of them either chose the wrong men or just got bored and wanted something different. My wife has been married to me for longer than either of them had ever been married to one person and she knows she has in her family and has fought to not be like them.
> 
> The last couple days have been pretty good, I feel like I am gaining the strength to get through this but I still have some bad times. I am already dreading her coming back, it has been nice without her and spending time with my boys.
> 
> I have stopped checking up on her and am just focusing on myself. The things she has said to him about her feelings really hurt. I would almost feel better if it was just physical and she just needed to scratch an itch. The emotional connection she thinks she has and her declaration of love is very painful. Especially when she says that she has never felt that for me.
> 
> I am not a wealthy man and we have struggled financially our entire marriage so I know it is not my money she has stayed for. We have just been one of those couples that are very compatible and enjoy each other's company and have always found a way to be happy even without money. She was a very caring person and always helping others, always looking for the good in people and giving them the benefit of the doubt. She still displays some of those qualities to others...just not me. I don't recognize this selfish creature who used to be my wife. There is no way I want to R while she is like this and I don't see her changing.
> 
> I'm rambling and need to get some work done.
> 
> Thank you everyone for the butt kicking and support.


Based on what you wrote here just file. Why suffer 1 more hour than you need to.


----------



## turnera

Matt, most cops around here have to pass a background check. And a psych evaluation. And have no record of taking drugs for, I think, 5 years.


----------



## Shaggy

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Based on what you wrote here just file. Why suffer 1 more hour than you need to.


Well for one, if he can prevent the guy from getting a job nearby he can reduce how much this scumbag is around OPs kids


----------



## hard_to_detach

I can make it difficult for him to get a job here but there are dozens of departments he can go to so it's not like I can completely block him. The ones I know for sure he has applied at are taken care of and they are the closest ones to me.


----------



## weightlifter

Couple things.

Did you VAR? Results?
I would keep up the surveilance even if you dont read it. Copy it and keep as it may have future value.

File D bro! Even if you take a "go slow" approach. Still, if she takes it physical at this point, DONT LOOK BACK and go full forward. None of us want to see you as plan B. 

IF she does not give herself to him physcial, maybe IF your head allows, allow R under all the usual NC, PURE transparency, +999 dynamics you listed in post 1 being changed.

You ARE the man on blowing this SOB out of the water!

BTW is she with family = the ones who are telling her she is crazy for leaving you?


----------



## hard_to_detach

I did get some info from a VAR. Nothing major or sexual or pointing to them meeting up. Again, he is 150 miles away so they are just talking about their lives and stories from their past....for now.

Yes, she is with family, but I don't know all of them. I have only met a few. Her female cousins are crazy women who sleep around so they won't be much help. The cousin she is staying with came out of the closet a couple years ago and blew away a 20+ year marriage with three kids, so he won't be much help either. I know him and he really likes me but he was living in a marriage he didn't want and is happy he got out so he can totally relate to her....not much help there either.

Her mom hit me up last night offering to take the boys off my hands this weekend "so you can have some time to yourself." I declined and told her we were having a great time together. I wouldn't doubt if she was trying to set me up.


----------



## JMGrey

MattMatt said:


> Seriously? This is what a cop has to do? :scratchhead:
> 
> I somehow doubt this is true. Can someone confirm this? Or was cop spinning a line?


Oh, it's definitely true. I've had a number of friends that were former law enforcement and there are some stringent requirements, at least on paper. In reality, most people that get on a department do so because they have an in somewhere. But the point of the background check, with emphasis on romantic associations is that as a LEO, there is always the possibility of abusing their position because of blackmail or extortion. In reality, of course, they're willing to abuse it so long it's to their benefit, but that's the justification.


----------



## MattMatt

turnera said:


> Matt, most cops around here have to pass a background check. And a psych evaluation. And have no record of taking drugs for, I think, 5 years.


Same in the UK. But all previous girlfriends? Blimey!


----------



## hard_to_detach

I came across an email from her to a guy friend of ours that I know she has confided in before. They haven't talked or seen each other in at least 9 months. This is how she is presenting it to the people she has told: (italics are mine to change names)

"So you know I’ve had issues with the way I feel about _H_ for a long time now. A few weeks ago, I got a notification on FB from my high school bf, he sent me a friend request. I accepted and he sent me a message saying he is applying to a number of law enforcement facilities in our area and some of them wanted extensive background info, including ex gfs, and wanted to know if I’d be ok with giving him that info. Sure... no problem, happy to help! Told _H_ about it, and we started catching up. He was going to be in town for an interview, and wanted to meet up, sure, fine, love to! Told _H_, he was a little concerned, but in talking to _OM_, I learned he had two kids from his previous marriage and that is a deal breaker for me! I do NOT want any more kids! So we met up and I was hit by a Mac truck when I discovered that I still had very strong, very real feelings for him! I was BLOWN AWAY!!! I had NO idea I could even feel like that! Turns out, he feels the same, he didn’t expect it either. I didn’t touch him, but almost cried when we had to say goodbye. The moral of the story is, now that I know I am capable of feeling that way (you see, I had convinced myself that there was something wrong with me, that I was incapable of feeling real love for a significant other, now I know better!) I couldn’t continue in my relationship with _H _knowing, not only can I not feel that way for him, but I do feel that way for someone else. It wouldn’t be fair to either of us, and eventually I would hate myself for not taking the chance, and resent _H_ for staying in a relationship with him for the sake of ... what? just to stay married??? Anyway, it all happened rather quickly, but I’ve never been more sure of anything in my life! So I am currently looking for a job and I’m filing when I get back from NY. _H_ knows, I told him right away. It’s been up and down, we had a big fight the other night, but we’re going to do our best to get along and work together to do what’s best for the kids. We haven’t told them yet, they’re my last and most difficult hurdle! I’m terrified what this may do to them. This last year has been hell with _oldest son_. All sorts of sh!t going on with him! He’s just now starting to get better, but I’m afraid this’ll throw him into another episode.


So, what’s new with you??? LOL!" 
LOL? really? and notice the part where she says she told me right away....yeah, after I confronted her. I thought this might help give you a picture of what she is thinking, rationalizing. Today is 3 weeks since they met up. This email is from a couple days ago.


----------



## turnera

So, send this friend an email, act as though you aren't reading HER emails, and tell him YOUR side of it. ASAP. See what happens.


----------



## Lovemytruck

The bright side of the email is now you know how she feels.

There is no point in trying to stay with her.

I am sure you feel like your heart was ripped out of you chest by her bare hands. So sorry for that.

It amazes me that people we love can be so utterly heartless and cruel.

Find a better woman.


----------



## Chris989

That sounds harsh but nothing unexpected.

So, what are YOU going to do about it?


----------



## turnera

I'd be exposing.


----------



## weightlifter

Dude I am so sorry. I am sure the pain is intense.

DONT EXPOSE YOU KNOW ABOUT THE EMAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

INSANELY VALUABLE INTEL TOOL AND YOU NEED THIS GOING FORWARD.

You only know what you know.

Keep after the other departments.

TAM army is behind you.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Yeah, I am not going to say anything about this email. Other than the part about telling me right away, she didn't sugar coat anything. I haven't talked to this guy in even longer than her and he is closer to her anyway. Of course his response was that she was doing the right thing and deserved to be happy. I am focusing on our close friends, the ones who will hold her accountable and help me fight for this marriage.


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> I came across an email from her to a guy friend of ours that I know she has confided in before. They haven't talked or seen each other in at least 9 months. This is how she is presenting it to the people she has told: (italics are mine to change names)
> 
> "So you know I’ve had issues with the way I feel about _H_ for a long time now. A few weeks ago, I got a notification on FB from my high school bf, he sent me a friend request. I accepted and he sent me a message saying he is applying to a number of law enforcement facilities in our area and some of them wanted extensive background info, including ex gfs, and wanted to know if I’d be ok with giving him that info. Sure... no problem, happy to help! Told _H_ about it, and we started catching up. He was going to be in town for an interview, and wanted to meet up, sure, fine, love to! Told _H_, he was a little concerned, but in talking to _OM_, I learned he had two kids from his previous marriage and that is a deal breaker for me! I do NOT want any more kids! So we met up and I was hit by a Mac truck when I discovered that I still had very strong, very real feelings for him! I was BLOWN AWAY!!! I had NO idea I could even feel like that! Turns out, he feels the same, he didn’t expect it either. I didn’t touch him, but almost cried when we had to say goodbye. The moral of the story is, now that I know I am capable of feeling that way (you see, I had convinced myself that there was something wrong with me, that I was incapable of feeling real love for a significant other, now I know better!) I couldn’t continue in my relationship with _H _knowing, not only can I not feel that way for him, but I do feel that way for someone else. It wouldn’t be fair to either of us, and eventually I would hate myself for not taking the chance, and resent _H_ for staying in a relationship with him for the sake of ... what? just to stay married??? Anyway, it all happened rather quickly, but I’ve never been more sure of anything in my life! So I am currently looking for a job and I’m filing when I get back from NY. _H_ knows, I told him right away. It’s been up and down, we had a big fight the other night, but we’re going to do our best to get along and work together to do what’s best for the kids. We haven’t told them yet, they’re my last and most difficult hurdle! I’m terrified what this may do to them. This last year has been hell with _oldest son_. All sorts of sh!t going on with him! He’s just now starting to get better, but I’m afraid this’ll throw him into another episode.
> 
> 
> So, what’s new with you??? LOL!"
> LOL? really? and notice the part where she says she told me right away....yeah, after I confronted her. I thought this might help give you a picture of what she is thinking, rationalizing. Today is 3 weeks since they met up. This email is from a couple days ago.


This is stupid!! Incredibly stupid. People like her shouldn't get into relationships. If it took meeting an old bf for a couple of hours for her to decide to end a marriage, better now than later


----------



## CarrieOn

s!I haven't read all the responses or the whole thread, so, take my advice at this point for what it's worth, which may not be much. 

1. You have been way too nice to her, throughout the entire relationship, it seems. I know you love her and meant well, but trust me, as a woman, that it had the opposite effect than what you were intending (that she would love you in return). Some women have no respect for men that are too nice to them and that they can walk over-- and she has walked all over you. She has confessed to numerous inappropriate relationships, told you she doesn't love you like a wife should love a husband, and has now said she wants to go be with the "one love of her life." And you are asking us if you should move on? Yes! I don't know why you would want to stay with someone who treats you so poorly. 

2. It sounds to me like you are afraid of losing her, but you have already lost her. You lost her a long time ago, if you ever had her, when she admitted to not loving you the right way. And now she has said she wants to go be with this cop. So let her go. To be honest, the ONLY way she may wake up and realize what she's missing out on is if you let her go. And by then I hope you will have come to your own senses and realized she is not the woman for you, you deserve better.

3. Regarding the lawyer-- seriously, go see one. You may be wrong that the inheritance is all hers. In my state, if the spouse co-mingles any of the inheritance with community funds or uses any of it for community purposes, than it loses its sole and separate status and instead becomes joint/community property. She did that when she used some of the money for a family vacation, and likely by using it for tuition and any other bills/expenses that could be viewed as furthering the community/family goals. Take some of the money from the bank and go pay a good lawyer for a consultation or for whatever retainer you can afford. (Many offer free consultations but obviously to get the best one and the best advice, you will likely eventually have to spend money).

Good luck. I am sorry about your situation.


----------



## warlock07

help me fight for this marriage.

You still want her ?


----------



## turnera

If you do, the FIRST thing you should be doing is exposing it to her family, friends, pastor, and anyone else whose high opinion she wants.


----------



## CarrieOn

hard_to_detach said:


> WA State is a no fault, community property state. My take on this is that I want her to file. *I made a vow and intend to stand by that vow. * If she wants out, she can file...as long as I don't lose any upperhand I'd have by filing.


The contract has been broken! Therefore it no longer exists. You cannot continue to keep a contract that the other party has terminated.

This is not a marriage, it's a sham. You need to think about and protect yourself now. She is walking all over you.


----------



## Michelleinmichigan

You are doing the right things in not letting her disrespect your home. I would have the same advice for anyone in this situation. The last thing you should do is "fight for a marriage" when the other person has decided to leave with another person. If you insist on staying with her after what she has done, she will find you repulsive. Your lack of self respect will make her really want to run. She will only dig in her shoes even more.

Your attitude should be "Your Loss Lady". Without saying it of course. There is really no point in discussing much with her, more than necessary.

Be as kind as possible, even if you are pretending, while being very firm. There is nothing more counterproductive, than getting nasty towards your spouse who is leaving. That only makes the arms of their lovers that much sweeter. Real vengeance is not letting her see you suffer.

Shop around for a lawyer, if you have to sacrifice meals for yourself to get one, do it. Focus all of your energy into taking care of yourself, the kids, and your future.

Any resentment will only hurt you, and will get in the way of practical and logical planning. Try not to focus on anything that brings you down, just have immediate and future plans.

Lastly, your spiritual strength is important. Go to church, pray, etc. Say a little prayer, and ask God for guidance. Everything happens for a reason, and maybe you deserve to be with a woman that really loves you? Good luck


----------



## Michelleinmichigan

warlock07 said:


> This is stupid!! Incredibly stupid. People like her shouldn't get into relationships. If it took meeting an old bf for a couple of hours for her to decide to end a marriage, better now than later


Obviously that is not possible and we only have one side of the story. It is likely she wanted out for a long time and has been grooming any possibilities for years. The cop is the one that worked out. Putting up with so much disrespect shows hubby has issues too. 

Men need to understand that women don't really want to be the ones in control all the time. The fact that she went from puppy to police man is telling. 

She didn't respect him ever, and to be honest I have seen men that appear to be perfect gentlemen and are really passive aggressive abusers. Not that this is the case simply, I wouldn't judge because things aren't always what they seem.

Regardless what she did is wrong.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> I came across an email from her to a guy friend of ours that I know she has confided in before. They haven't talked or seen each other in at least 9 months. This is how she is presenting it to the people she has told: (italics are mine to change names)
> 
> "So you know I’ve had issues with the way I feel about _H_ for a long time now. A few weeks ago, I got a notification on FB from my high school bf, he sent me a friend request. I accepted and he sent me a message saying he is applying to a number of law enforcement facilities in our area and some of them wanted extensive background info, including ex gfs, and wanted to know if I’d be ok with giving him that info. Sure... no problem, happy to help! Told _H_ about it, and we started catching up. He was going to be in town for an interview, and wanted to meet up, sure, fine, love to! Told _H_, he was a little concerned, but in talking to _OM_, I learned he had two kids from his previous marriage and that is a deal breaker for me! I do NOT want any more kids! So we met up and I was hit by a Mac truck when I discovered that I still had very strong, very real feelings for him! I was BLOWN AWAY!!! I had NO idea I could even feel like that! Turns out, he feels the same, he didn’t expect it either. I didn’t touch him, but almost cried when we had to say goodbye. The moral of the story is, now that I know I am capable of feeling that way (you see, I had convinced myself that there was something wrong with me, that I was incapable of feeling real love for a significant other, now I know better!) I couldn’t continue in my relationship with _H _knowing, not only can I not feel that way for him, but I do feel that way for someone else. It wouldn’t be fair to either of us, and eventually I would hate myself for not taking the chance, and resent _H_ for staying in a relationship with him for the sake of ... what? just to stay married??? Anyway, it all happened rather quickly, but I’ve never been more sure of anything in my life! So I am currently looking for a job and I’m filing when I get back from NY. _H_ knows, I told him right away. It’s been up and down, we had a big fight the other night, but we’re going to do our best to get along and work together to do what’s best for the kids. We haven’t told them yet, they’re my last and most difficult hurdle! I’m terrified what this may do to them. This last year has been hell with _oldest son_. All sorts of sh!t going on with him! He’s just now starting to get better, but I’m afraid this’ll throw him into another episode.
> 
> 
> So, what’s new with you??? LOL!"
> LOL? really? and notice the part where she says she told me right away....yeah, after I confronted her. I thought this might help give you a picture of what she is thinking, rationalizing. Today is 3 weeks since they met up. This email is from a couple days ago.


I do not believe for one second a grown woman throws away a marriage after having coffee with an ex. Falls in love in 2 hours? Are we 13 years old? Bu..S$...

I think she has been underground with this guy longer than you know and now she is making her move to leave you. Her meeting up with him was part of a plan to present him in her life. She has been with him earlier than you know. This is the story they both want to present to the world that is was somehow fate.


----------



## Chris989

I have seen that scenario so many times. I have only seen women do it, where they carry on an affair underground, get divorced or at least separate, then the man "appears" on the scene. The "new couple" will be joined at the hip and act just as though they've known each other for years - which, of course, they have.

Happened to my boss (who was a tosser anyway, but didn't make it right) and a very good friend of my family.

I've also seen it with others, but I was close enough to those two cases to know what went on in depth.


----------



## badbane

I would be willing to bet this has been going on longer than she is letting on. A) no police background check is going to go back past a decade. 
B) This has likely been going on for awhile since it seems awkward that he just so happens to start talking to her around the exact same time he is moving in town. please. Too many convenient coincidences that just don't add up to reality. 

my theory is that she and he reconnected on fb or some other form of communication. They have been talking for a long time. He has decided to move closer to his kids and have a crack at your WS. Your wife probably realizes that she can keep things cool if she comes up with a plausible story that doesn't make you think any thing is up. I'd be breaking into her FB, email , and skype accounts to see just how long this love at first sight bull#[email protected]$ has been going on. She could have been talking to him for years while you were working to support her. So to me step one would be to cut off anything that is not necessary for her to live. You provide the roof, the food, and place for your kids. Everything else is not necessary. So cut off her phone and screw paying the contract fee. If the computer is a family computer lock her out of it. She needs to see just what her life is going to be like. Take the gifts you bought her and pawn them off. And if she says to you again. I never have felt this way about anyone. "Tell her she is a lying sack of bones. 15 years of marriage is proof that you cared, and that throwing it all away for an exboyfriend you didn't choose to be with the first time around doesn't exactly make for a good soap opera. Oh yea I spoke to my lawyer I'll have the papers here pronto. I hope you enjoy him long enough to realize the reasons why you dumped him in the first place and decided to marry me you *insert string of expletives here*."


----------



## CarrieOn

I just caught up on the posts and read the email to the friend.

Honestly I don't feel that she has rationalized/justified anything... she has been pretty clear with you, and with herself, about what has been going on for some time now, in both her thoughts and her actions. She wasn't happy being married to you, she didn't feel romantic love or a marital connection, and she was just biding time and doing things that took her further away from you/the marriage, and towards the path of leaving you (boob job, college courses, talking to other men etc.)

It's like she was just waiting for some other guy to come help her leave the marriage, and that's what she found with the cop. THAT'S why it happened so quickly, and how she could throw away a long-term marriage for a guy she dated briefly so long ago, after only meeting for coffee. She was pursuing this path and just waiting for something like this to happen.

I am not trying to defend her, as I think she is weak-willed and cowardly for going about things in this way. To her credit, she has told you that she wasn't happy and even pretty much confessed other affairs. But she shouldn't need another guy to leave the marriage-- if she was that unhappy then she should have just womaned up and divorced, and let you be free. But what I am saying is that she has shown you what kind of woman she is for a long time-- definitely not wife material-- and you stayed with her and want to fight to save a marriage that hasn't been a marriage for a long time.

I don't think her fling with the cop will last but it gives her the strength to do what she has wanted to do-- leave. She says she is filing when she gets back from NY. If I were you I would take charge and be the one to decide the timing and terms of the divorce, rather than sitting passively waiting for her to give the final death blows to the marriage. Just my opinion/advice.


----------



## tom67

I would go see a lawyer on monday. I'm sure you can find one who will work with you with a payment plan. Turn the tables on her.


----------



## badbane

CarrieOn said:


> I just caught up on the posts and read the email to the friend.
> 
> Honestly I don't feel that she has rationalized/justified anything... she has been pretty clear with you, and with herself, about what has been going on for some time now, in both her thoughts and her actions. She wasn't happy being married to you, she didn't feel romantic love or a marital connection, and she was just biding time and doing things that took her further away from you/the marriage, and towards the path of leaving you (boob job, college courses, talking to other men etc.)
> 
> It's like she was just waiting for some other guy to come help her leave the marriage, and that's what she found with the cop. THAT'S why it happened so quickly, and how she could throw away a long-term marriage for a guy she dated briefly so long ago, after only meeting for coffee. She was pursuing this path and just waiting for something like this to happen.
> 
> I am not trying to defend her, as I think she is weak-willed and cowardly for going about things in this way. To her credit, she has told you that she wasn't happy and even pretty much confessed other affairs. But she shouldn't need another guy to leave the marriage-- if she was that unhappy then she should have just womaned up and divorced, and let you be free. But what I am saying is that she has shown you what kind of woman she is for a long time-- definitely not wife material-- and you stayed with her and want to fight to save a marriage that hasn't been a marriage for a long time.
> 
> I don't think her fling with the cop will last but it gives her the strength to do what she has wanted to do-- leave. She says she is filing when she gets back from NY. If I were you I would take charge and be the one to decide the timing and terms of the divorce, rather than sitting passively waiting for her to give the final death blows to the marriage. Just my opinion/advice.


I don't believe that you don't stay married to a guy for 15 years if there wasn't something at some point. 
Anothering I would suggest you look around the time your wife got the breast enhancement. That's a big deal and could be a good time to focus in on.


----------



## Suspecting

Why is she confiding in a male friend? She has serious boundary issues. Why have you been OK with this? Is the "guy friend" supposed to be your friend too?

I wouldn't be suprised if she have had something sexual going on with this man too.


----------



## CEL

Well when everyone agrees you know you got something. So file she has no feelings for you, does not want to be with you or the kids, so why are you fighting for this?


----------



## carmen ohio

Dear hard_to_detach,

You now have the answer to your question, "Should I move on?"

Yes, you should.


----------



## aug

hard_to_detach said:


> Yeah, I am not going to say anything about this email. Other than the part about telling me right away, she didn't sugar coat anything. I haven't talked to this guy in even longer than her and he is closer to her anyway. Of course his response was that she was doing the right thing and deserved to be happy. I am focusing on our close friends, the ones who will hold her accountable and *help me fight for this marriage.*



Fight for your marriage? When she's not in it? Oh, okay? It'll be tough for you.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you not put him on cheaterville.com? Let him get a new job after they google that.


----------



## Dyokemm

Is your wife still a teenager?

What drivel. At her age and experience she should d**n well know that the butterflies she is feeling with this POS will not last either.

A couple years from now she'll wake up and realize she doesn't have that same feeling with him either.

At that point she'll either find a new "soulmate" if she remains an immature fool or realize she s**t all over her children's lives for a stupid pipe dream called 'romance'.

The metaphor I always use with friends or ex-students who call on me for advice is a Christmas present.

The day you get it you are super excited, BUT you will never feel that way again about it once the feeling wears off. 

Even if you love and cherish it, you will never have that same feeling about it again.

Its just the natural mental consequence of familiarity.

True love is all about commitment. Its a promise to always be there, no matter what happens in life.

Thank movies, TV, and trash literature for promoting this asinine popular opinion that true love is all emotion.

No wonder so many immature and ignorant people ruin their marriages with this "I love you, but am not IN love with you" bulls**t.


----------



## Shaggy

Get the OM up on cheaterville.com and get people hitting the link, especially by search for him on google to find the link.
That will help hurting his job hunt permanently.

Can you cut her off financially?


----------



## hard_to_detach

CarrieOn said:


> I just caught up on the posts and read the email to the friend.
> 
> Honestly I don't feel that she has rationalized/justified anything... she has been pretty clear with you, and with herself, about what has been going on for some time now, in both her thoughts and her actions. She wasn't happy being married to you, she didn't feel romantic love or a marital connection, and she was just biding time and doing things that took her further away from you/the marriage, and towards the path of leaving you (boob job, college courses, talking to other men etc.)
> 
> It's like she was just waiting for some other guy to come help her leave the marriage, and that's what she found with the cop. THAT'S why it happened so quickly, and how she could throw away a long-term marriage for a guy she dated briefly so long ago, after only meeting for coffee. She was pursuing this path and just waiting for something like this to happen.
> 
> I am not trying to defend her, as I think she is weak-willed and cowardly for going about things in this way. To her credit, she has told you that she wasn't happy and even pretty much confessed other affairs. But she shouldn't need another guy to leave the marriage-- if she was that unhappy then she should have just womaned up and divorced, and let you be free. But what I am saying is that she has shown you what kind of woman she is for a long time-- definitely not wife material-- and you stayed with her and want to fight to save a marriage that hasn't been a marriage for a long time.
> 
> I don't think her fling with the cop will last but it gives her the strength to do what she has wanted to do-- leave. She says she is filing when she gets back from NY. If I were you I would take charge and be the one to decide the timing and terms of the divorce, rather than sitting passively waiting for her to give the final death blows to the marriage. Just my opinion/advice.


You are right on this. She has been open and honest with me regarding her feelings, but she also said that she would never leave in this manner. She said that if she couldn't do it anymore she would just leave but she would never walk out to be with someone else. I know...I am a fool for believing her but for the last couple years she has really been putting in the effort and I was starting to trust her....misplaced trust.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I do not believe for one second a grown woman throws away a marriage after having coffee with an ex. Falls in love in 2 hours? Are we 13 years old? Bu..S$...
> 
> I think she has been underground with this guy longer than you know and now she is making her move to leave you. Her meeting up with him was part of a plan to present him in her life. She has been with him earlier than you know. This is the story they both want to present to the world that is was somehow fate.


That is what is so crazy about this. I have checked...they have not been in contact. He hit her up on FB a few days before they met up. The fact of the matter is, she has not been happy for a long time and wanted to move on but didn't know how. She thought she could stay with me and her feelings would change, like she was going through a phase. She thinks she has something with this guy that she missed 17 years ago and it is her way out.

Not much I can do now except protect myself and my kids.


----------



## Chris989

hard_to_detach said:


> That is what is so crazy about this. I have checked...they have not been in contact. He hit her up on FB a few days before they met up. The fact of the matter is, she has not been happy for a long time and wanted to move on but didn't know how. She thought she could stay with me and her feelings would change, like she was going through a phase. She thinks she has something with this guy that she missed 17 years ago and it is her way out.
> 
> Not much I can do now except protect myself and my kids.


There's lots you can do, but you are choosing not to. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but we aren't doing you any favours if you sleepwalk into a no going back break up.


----------



## badbane

hard_to_detach said:


> That is what is so crazy about this. I have checked...they have not been in contact. He hit her up on FB a few days before they met up. The fact of the matter is, she has not been happy for a long time and wanted to move on but didn't know how. She thought she could stay with me and her feelings would change, like she was going through a phase. She thinks she has something with this guy that she missed 17 years ago and it is her way out.
> 
> Not much I can do now except protect myself and my kids.


It called Affair Fog my friend. It is crazy because normally you don't invest 15 years of you life to be with someone. Make it work have a family and they just throw it all away over a feeling. You really need to read the CWI newbie thread. I have personally been through a couple hundred or more Affairs on this site so far and if there is one thing you learn, it is that Affairs tend to follow a script. 
You checked facebook great but she could have been deleting messages from this guy to cover her tracks for years and you wouldn't know. I can guarantee you one thing. She is still talking to this OM. I can guarantee you another they have been talking longer than you know about. 
IT also sounds like you really have just given up. After 15 years you don't care that she is cheating on you and preparing to leave you. 

Coming on here is not enough if you want this marriage to stay together you are going to have to fight for it. If you really want to wake up to an empty home with your wife in another mans bed and your kids coming over once every other weekend go for it. But seriously expose your wife to her family and friends and everyone else. You need to remove anyone she can spout her Emotional Affair affected mental proccessing to ASAP. Your wife didn't marry this guy fifteen years ago for a reason. Now it is just magical. This is textbook affair fog.

Affair fog symptoms include 
1) rewriting history to justify the A. (15 years of marriage were good turn into. "the first five were great and the last ten were garbage." Here is what you are about to hear from her. "This OM that i just met is giving me all this new attention and telling me all these nice things. It is nice to hear this from someone other than my husband, who just has to tell me these things or I just stopped listening when he said them. We have been talking a long time and I went we met it is like fireworks we just connected. He just got me. Go look in the thread in my signature called the lie and the truth. don't believe a word coming out of your wife's mouth about this OM. 

When i busted up my wife's EA this OM was her best friend and they just got each other. And is wife knew about everything. In reality. The OM was sneaking around and telling his wife that they rarely talked. The reality is they spoke everyday only when I was not present. 

This man who she only knew for six months was her best friend. and I took nearly a year for our marriage to recover fully.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Don't get me wrong, I am not just giving up, but I need to protect myself and my kids. I will continue to act as an honorable man and set an example for my kids. If she comes out of the fog before doing anything that completely breaks off our chance of R, I will be here to work on it with her....with stipulations. Her feelings for me are not going to change anytime soon, if ever. I will not be a doormat for her but I will leave the door open if she wants to come back in.


----------



## workindad

To answer your first question. YES!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris989

hard_to_detach said:


> Don't get me wrong, I am not just giving up, but I need to protect myself and my kids. I will continue to act as an honorable man and set an example for my kids. If she comes out of the fog before doing anything that completely breaks off our chance of R, I will be here to work on it with her....with stipulations. Her feelings for me are not going to change anytime soon, if ever. I will not be a doormat for her but I will leave the door open if she wants to come back in.


She will not come out of this fog all by herself.

You do not understand what we are telling you.

The "fog" will only lift with outside influence. It can build up over years and lift in a matter of weeks. That is why it is called a "fog" - it can go just like a real fog.

I'm done posting here for you so good luck.


----------



## Dyokemm

If you are waiting for her to snap back to reality on her own, then this is over.

File divorce papers. Separate your finances immediately. Only speak to her regarding kids and the divorce and show her absolutely no emotion.

She has to see and feel what the consequences of this bull***t will be for her to even have a chance of coming back to reality.

If you don't do this, your marriage will end. You cannot 'nice' your wife back into the relationship.


----------



## Everafter2013

To answer your question: yes you should move on.

Your wife doesn't love you, not romantically and I bet she never did. She is leaving you over a guy she had a relationship with for 2 months 17 years ago, after 2 hours meeting? She is throwing away 15 years for that. THINK ABOUT IT. There is nothing to fight here. 

Your fighting chance is if the cop dumps her, she will run back to you. She obviously does not want to live by herself. If you are willing to be her second option, so be it. Expose to his girlfriend and see what happens.

But as long as everything is good with the cop, she will leave you.


----------



## badbane

hard_to_detach said:


> Don't get me wrong, I am not just giving up, but I need to protect myself and my kids. I will continue to act as an honorable man and set an example for my kids. If she comes out of the fog before doing anything that completely breaks off our chance of R, I will be here to work on it with her....with stipulations. Her feelings for me are not going to change anytime soon, if ever. I will not be a doormat for her but I will leave the door open if she wants to come back in.


you are being too passive. you need to do more. By doing nothing you are coming off as if you have lost. The OM cares more than you, and that you are not the man he is. 

You need to man up right now. I am not saying go start a fight with the OM after all it isn't the OM's fault that your wife can't stay within her boundaries. You need to be mad you need to set your rules and if she screws up file. Also you need to cut off anything you pay for that she doesn't need. you need to expose her behavior to her family and friends. Right now she is living in a fantasy world. That's why it doesn't make sense. Because it is a fantasy. She falls in love over coffee.........come on. you are allowing your wife you make the worst mistake of her life and holding a candle for her is not going to help
+


----------



## Jasel

hard_to_detach said:


> Don't get me wrong, I am not just giving up, but I need to protect myself and my kids. I will continue to act as an honorable man and set an example for my kids. If she comes out of the fog before doing anything that completely breaks off our chance of R, I will be here to work on it with her....with stipulations. Her feelings for me are not going to change anytime soon, if ever. I will not be a doormat for her but I will leave the door open if she wants to come back in.


If you want to save your marriage then you'll need to be more proactive than that. You can't just sit back and hope she'll come to her senses on her own. That's most likely not going to happen. Not sure if you said you exposed or not but if you haven't and you have concrete proof you should by now.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD

Is she still in her fog?
Is her family abiding the affair?

Hoping for the best but fearing the worst since that is the norm here.


----------



## hard_to_detach

No changes. She still talks to OM everyday. About a week ago she talked to her dad again and he laid into her. He is not accepting this and told her she is making a huge mistake and is destroying her family for nothing. She obviously did not like that.

We went to a paralegal service that handles uncontested divorces. She put up the $650 for their service and will pay the filing fees. They gave us a packet to fill out that will give them the info to draw up the legal documents. They will then file the paperwork and after 90 days it will be final. That was two weeks ago and we still haven't sat down to fill everything out. She keeps saying we need to do it but then has plans to go out with her mom, or the 21 year old girl she made friends with from college, etc. She won't call or go see any of our regular friends because she knows they will not agree with what she is doing.

We told the kids a week ago and they were devastated. You could see by the look in their eyes that their world was destroyed. We are maintaining a working relationship and are in agreement that we need to be on the same page when it comes to the kids. They are handling it as well as can be expected but have expressed sadness and anger. We had reserved a campsite for this past weekend a couple months ago so we went camping with some friends. The boys had a good time.

She was shopping for the camping trip and got a call from her dad that her grandma had died. She was extremely upset and ended up coming home from shopping before she was done. She did not feel up to going camping and wanted to stay home so I called her dad who lives very close and told him and he said she should come over and spend the evening with him and his friends and her brother and his gf. I finished the shopping, packed up the car, and went camping with the boys. The plan was that her dad would drive her to us the next day....that didn't happen. She went over there and he started laying into her about the situation again and she got pissed and left. The campsites aren't too far from where we live so I came back and picked her up. She said she is not going to take that from him and if their relationship changes over this then she will be sad but oh well.

She is a daddy's girl. She has been so close to him and this is so unlike her. She is not only throwing her marriage away, she is going to throw away any relationship that doesn't agree with what she is doing. At this point I am just trying to minimize the damage to my kids and myself. She is still on board with split custody and no child or spousal support so I am going to fill out the paperwork without her and write up the parenting plan and financial plan so we can get this filed with that arrangement. She is making her bed and is not going to like how it feels when she wakes up from this nightmare.

I also went to a therapist to try to cope with all of this...hoping that helps. I am past trying to save anything. Everything is out in the open and it has had no effect on anything. Her mom supports her, her dad doesn't and most all of our friends that know and her other family have told her everything from that she is a piece of sh*t to that they don't think she is making a good choice.

Life goes on.


----------



## BashfulB

It takes a cruel woman to flaunt her affair in front of your face. 

My friend you will be better off without her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ovid

Push that D through while she's still looking for the easy out.


----------



## Kasler

Ovid said:


> Push that D through while she's still looking for the easy out.


^ This.

You've been married for 15 years, you could get slaughtered with the alimony alone.

Get this divorce down the pipes as fast as possible. 

Shared custody, no child support, and no spousal support is pretty much the holy grail for any man divorcing.


----------



## hope4family

Kasler said:


> ^ This.
> 
> You've been married for 15 years, you could get slaughtered with the alimony alone.
> 
> Get this divorce down the pipes as fast as possible.
> 
> Shared custody, no child support, and no spousal support is pretty much the holy grail for any man divorcing.


Quickly before she decides that she is entitled to more. 

She either sees it as a good will gesture, or genuinely wants an easy out. Either way, take it and run.


----------



## turnera

And PLEASE don't be naive enough to think that she will be honorable when it comes to money. If you have an agreement now, get it signed and legal TODAY.


----------



## weightlifter

Im sad for you. OTOH I know a number that would kill to not pay alimony.

She is maintaining the no PA pledge? When does the OM move near you?


----------



## Kasler

turnera said:


> And PLEASE don't be naive enough to think that she will be honorable when it comes to money. If you have an agreement now, get it signed and legal TODAY.


Doubly so. 

When she has to start thinking about apartments and rent, her memory on these current conditions are gonna get pretty hazy.


----------



## Jasel

turnera said:


> And PLEASE don't be naive enough to think that she will be honorable when it comes to money. If you have an agreement now, get it signed and legal TODAY.


This x 1000


----------



## hope4family

Kasler said:


> Doubly so.
> 
> When she has to start thinking about apartments and rent, her memory on these current conditions are gonna get pretty hazy.


Triple make it a triple! 

To this day I thank my lucky nice guy, co-dependent, giver, beta, (and any other term anyone here thinks of) arse that I took action and pushed it through it as quickly as possible. 

Because as soon as the dust settled. She realized she wanted more.


----------



## hope4family

Jasel said:


> This x 1000



Take this posts quote and re-read it +1 more time for me. 

This is no time for chivalry. Do what's legal in the eyes of the law and if she offers you "the easy way out." 

Save yourself.


----------



## turnera

And if you're wavering, you can always get back together later, once you have protected your money.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I hear you guys. Thank you for the support. That is why I am not going to let her drag her feet anymore. I know I need to get this agreement into the court now because she will change her tune once reality sets in.

Yes, she is maintaining the PA pledge. As for when he moves closer...I don't know. I do know that I have squashed his efforts to get a job here. In fact, the last department I talked to said he had already been disqualified but my info just reinforced their decision. The way they were talking was like there was something about him they didn't like but they couldn't elaborate. They did ask that I keep quiet about it as they had not even sent out the letter to him yet. hahaha

I know from my brother in-law's efforts to become a cop that once a few departments pass on you, that info gets passed on to any other departments you apply at and can make it impossible to get hired. That could be the case here. The last one got me thinking...why would the disqualify him on their own? He has been a cop for 15 years and a detective for a couple as well. That would seem like a slam dunk for him to get a job. Oh well...don't care that much. 

If he can't get a job here and has to stay there, my stbx will have to decide whether she wants to move there to be with him or break it off. My oldest already told me that he doesn't want to move away and if one of us did, he would stay with the other.


----------



## Kasler

hard_to_detach said:


> I hear you guys. Thank you for the support. That is why I am not going to let her drag her feet anymore. I know I need to get this agreement into the court now because she will change her tune once reality sets in.
> 
> Yes, she is maintaining the PA pledge. As for when he moves closer...I don't know. I do know that I have squashed his efforts to get a job here. In fact, the last department I talked to said he had already been disqualified but my info just reinforced their decision. The way they were talking was like there was something about him they didn't like but they couldn't elaborate. They did ask that I keep quiet about it as they had not even sent out the letter to him yet. hahaha
> 
> I know from my brother in-law's efforts to become a cop that once a few departments pass on you, that info gets passed on to any other departments you apply at and can make it impossible to get hired. That could be the case here. The last one got me thinking...why would the disqualify him on their own? He has been a cop for 15 years and a detective for a couple as well. That would seem like a slam dunk for him to get a job. Oh well...don't care that much.
> 
> If he can't get a job here and has to stay there, my stbx will have to decide whether she wants to move there to be with him or break it off. My oldest already told me that he doesn't want to move away and if one of us did, he would stay with the other.


Yes. Since your wife is the one who wants to walk away from the relationship, she should be walking away from the family home as well.

And I cannot continue to say how imperative it is to get the money decisions legal now. 

Many waywards promise something like "an amiable divorce" and then when they realize you won't be there to provide for them anymore, they get a shark lawyer to fight you tooth and nail for every last dime you possess. 

I know you know, but once again GET IT LEGAL.


----------



## Acabado

Kasler said:


> once again GET IT LEGAL.


:iagree:

ASAP


----------



## hope4family

Kasler said:


> I know you know, but once again GET IT LEGAL.


They are not your wife. 

They are not your lover.

They are not your friend. 

They are not your most trusted associate. 

Would you give access to legal rights, bank accounts, and 50-50 time with your children to someone whom you know is proven to hurt you and potentially your children. 

I always hope i'm wrong. But in every divorce I've witnessed.


----------



## jnj express

Statistic for your wife---% of A--Hook--ups that FAIL--97%

How do you go from an 8 week relationship in HS to being so in love with someone--------she is bored with her mge---she has new hot to trot friends, and her female side of FOO----all are phialanderers

She will regret what she is doing---she will regret it the rest of her life

When D is final, you should file 3 lawsuits agst her lover---one in your name, and in the names of each of your boys---file INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS suits agst the lover---just as you are doing the D---you can file a tort action lawsuit---you can even do it yourself---the beauty of it is---once he is served---he will have to answer all 3 suits w/in a month----or he defaults---he is gonna have to get an atty, and it will cost him a goodly sum of dinero-------you meanwhile do not have to pursue the suits---if you do, you can get atty and go forward or just let it all drop---but he is gonna be in for a rude awakening in having to deal with the suits-----

If you do this---at least he does not get away completely free , after he has participated in the destruction of your mge


----------



## Chaparral

Any news?


----------



## hard_to_detach

Where do I begin. We sat down and filled out the paperwork a little over a week ago. Split custody, no spousal support, but the state requires child support based on our income. She says she won't make me pay but we all know that won't last. At least since we have 50/50 custody, I will get a residential credit for the time they spend with me that will greatly reduce that amount. We have an appointment on the 5th to sign the final documents, then they get filed and the 90 waiting period begins.

I've continued my snooping so I know what is going on. Found out that the day we filled out the paperwork she freaked out because she thought he was breaking up with her...which he may have been close. He is not comfortable know that we spend time together and were sleeping in the same bed together, so the next day she tells me we need to be in separate rooms. I told her that we are still married so I will continue to sleep in the master bedroom and the marital bed. If she doesn't like it, she can sleep somewhere else. She slept on the couch for a few nights and not sleeps on an air matress in the office.

The other confirmation I got though is that they have had sex. He was in town two weeks ago and she went to his hotel for a few hours. Then, after they little fight, he was in town again and she gave me this lame story about spending the night at a friends house. I figured it was fake but just confirmed that she spent the night with him. I am thinking I will wait until the paperwork is to the court to bring it up and then kick her out.


----------



## LostViking

They are already fighting. How pathetic. She is already making more demands on him than he is willing to put up with. I guarantee you this affair doesn't last more than six months before he gets tired of her crap and dumps her. 

You need to do a hard 180 and start detaching as much as you can, because I see her getting cold feet as the divorce date looms. I have a feeling she will try to get back with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

I am done. If she had honored her pledge to not take it physical until our divorce was final, I could have considered exploring a new relationship with her if she changed her mind. The divorce would have gone through no matter what and we would start at ground zero on a new relationship. This squashed that though. There is no way she can come back from this....I AM DONE!!!

She has also told him that she doesn't want to HAVE to move in with him right away but that her options are limited. She also said that she is pretty sure if she did, the boys wouldn't want to live with her but if push comes to shove I think she will anyway. I never would have believed it but something in her life has to go and I think it might be the boys! True to form, she is following the script.


----------



## tom67

I hope she has to support him and he still doesn't have a job, the bastage.:lol:


----------



## LostViking

Just detach and move on. You are doing good. You have right amount of bad attitude. I like that you made her sleep on the couch, now show her you are moving on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> I am done. If she had honored her pledge to not take it physical until our divorce was final, I could have considered exploring a new relationship with her if she changed her mind. The divorce would have gone through no matter what and we would start at ground zero on a new relationship. This squashed that though. There is no way she can come back from this....I AM DONE!!!
> 
> She has also told him that she doesn't want to HAVE to move in with him right away but that her options are limited. She also said that she is pretty sure if she did, the boys wouldn't want to live with her but if push comes to shove I think she will anyway. I never would have believed it but something in her life has to go and I think it might be the boys! True to form, she is following the script.


I like your attitude. IMHO you are clearly handing this well. Continue staying strong for yourself and your kids.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Thank you for the support. It's really hard. She has pressed the bedroom issue several times and I have made it clear that I am not moving out. She goes out most nights with the few friends that support her or goes to her brother & sister in-law's.

Saturday night she went out for a bachelorette party and my 15 year old asks me why I don't go out with my friends too. I told him that I am staying home for them. He tells me that they will be ok alone and I need to go out. He said I need to do something for me and have some time out with my friends. Then he says "it's not fair that mom keeps going out". Smart kid. He is watching all of this and she doesn't realize that she is going to lose him.

It is taking every fiber of my being to not call her out on having sex with the POS. She would probably deny it or if she did admit she would wonder how I knew and could make it hard for me to gather more info. Not sure how to handle this.


----------



## Acabado

Don't confront her on this. Beyond a short satisfaction it won't help you in the practical things.
Just take note, it's already helping you to detach and to see her as she is now. Keep detaching, be polite and let things to be done.


----------



## happyman64

I agree. Do no let her know you are monitoring. Just throw her out after the papers are signed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

HTD
1) YOU ARE THE MAN! Not tolerating her going back on her pledge.
2) Keep monitoring for a while
3) YOU ARE THE MAN! For standing up for yourself and not leaving YOUR bedroom.
4) Go out, relearn the flirt part once all is signed. 
5) Glad your son sees EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON!

What state again?
So shortly after your post on the 16th she went out against her word? 

Generically how did you find out?

Still you are THE MAN for killing ANY chance once she took it PA going forward I am assuming you told her the consequences should she do that.

You need anything PM me. 
WL


----------



## hard_to_detach

I know I shouldn't confront her on this. It is just really hard knowing. I am going to try to keep my mouth shut and just get through this. It does help me detach.


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> Thank you for the support. It's really hard. She has pressed the bedroom issue several times and I have made it clear that I am not moving out. She goes out most nights with the few friends that support her or goes to her brother & sister in-law's.


Good let it keep happening. Document it in a log on a calendar. Keep it progressive and ongoing. 

I have to admit. This has struck a cord with me. But if I could do it with a 14 month old child. You can do it with your 15 year old. 

Tell your son if possible during a family meeting that you will be taking time for yourself in the future. But right now not to concern themselves with whether or not you go out. Try and help them understand that you are transitioning, and they just need to focus on their chores and ya'know whatever it is 15 year old does nowadays. 

Seriously though, if you are "stuck at home" with your 15 year old son. This is the perfect time for both of you to start a new hobby. Be it sports, outdoor activity, camping, purchase a firepit, air rifles/bows and arrows, welding, carpentry, martial arts.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> HTD
> 1) YOU ARE THE MAN! Not tolerating her going back on her pledge.
> 2) Keep monitoring for a while
> 3) YOU ARE THE MAN! For standing up for yourself and not leaving YOUR bedroom.
> 4) Go out, relearn the flirt part once all is signed.
> 5) Glad your son sees EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON!
> 
> What state again?
> So shortly after your post on the 16th she went out against her word?
> 
> Generically how did you find out?
> 
> Still you are THE MAN for killing ANY chance once she took it PA going forward I am assuming you told her the consequences should she do that.
> 
> You need anything PM me.
> WL


Washington State

Actually, she went against her word a few days before my post on the 16th, then again a few days after.

At the very beginning, before she locked her phone, I installed an SMS Backup App on her phone that backs up every text even if she deletes them. She was not slipping up on entering her password so I couldn't get it. So I played around with the app on my phone and figured out that the backups are stored on the SD card. I removed the SD card from her phone, put it in mine, and had access to the backup and all the pictures she has taken with her phone. After copying it all, I put the card back in her phone, turned it off and back on and you couldn't tell I had done anything.

I am leaning toward not letting her know. The agreement we have inked is pretty good and at this point I just want it to go through smoothly. It would feel good to confront her and blow this open but it won't get me anything in the long run.


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> I know I shouldn't confront her on this. It is just really hard knowing. I am going to try to keep my mouth shut and just get through this. It does help me detach.


H2D, 

Rarely does confronting outweigh the potential risks of getting out of a toxic situation as good as you are thus far. 

Monitor and detach. Learn that this is the "real her". Watch her as she continues to kick you while your down and that it is relentless and without mercy. 

Let your blinders come off. It is often that you can get what you want all this. Because foolish women (men are too), typically burn their own houses down in an effort to move on to the next one.


----------



## doubletrouble

hard_to_detach said:


> At the very beginning, before she locked her phone, I installed an SMS Backup App on her phone that backs up every text even if she deletes them. She was not slipping up on entering her password so I couldn't get it. So I played around with the app on my phone and figured out that the backups are stored on the SD card. I removed the SD card from her phone, put it in mine, and had access to the backup and all the pictures she has taken with her phone. After copying it all, I put the card back in her phone, turned it off and back on and you couldn't tell I had done anything.


:smthumbup: Props to you, HtD. I like that one, :lol: and probably wouldn't've thought of it. 

You're doing really well, and emotionally you seem SO much stronger now. You're doing the right thing for your family. You are the bowsprit and navigator of the family ship. Just need a new first mate one day


----------



## hard_to_detach

doubletrouble said:


> :smthumbup: Props to you, HtD. I like that one, :lol: and probably wouldn't've thought of it.
> 
> You're doing really well, and emotionally you seem SO much stronger now. You're doing the right thing for your family. You are the bowsprit and navigator of the family ship. Just need a new first mate one day


I don't feel like I am doing well emotionally. I feel like it shouldn't bother me at this point that she is having sex with him. I knew it was coming and I know it's over and on some level detest her. There is still that sliver of love I've had for her that feels like a knife in my heart. She is on her way right now to sleep with him. She is driving over 300 miles round trip to see him and gave me some stupid alibi like I am a moron and can't see right through her....but I didn't let on I knew.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

I know it hurts my friend. Most of us have been through the pain, but think of it as a purging. This pain will purge whatever remaining respect and vestiges of love you had left for her, and make it that much easier to detach emotionally.

I like the idea of keeping a log of her trysts. Then after the D is complete, expose her for the lying cheat she is, to anyone who cares to know.


----------



## Acabado

Be careful of not puting yourself in legal problems. Specially becasue now they are lawyers involved.
And wasn't OM a cop?


----------



## turnera

can you have her stuff moved out while she's gone?


----------



## weightlifter

How long to D final?


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> How long to D final?


Probably around November 10th.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Wow fast. In many states 1, 2, even FIVE years! Torture to let someone restart their life.

NOW I get how you are willing to wait to fvck until final. It aint that long compared to other states. 

Imagine waiting 5 years with her attached to you fvcking Barney Fife on the side while you are stuck with Mr Hand.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> Wow fast. In many states 1, 2, even FIVE years! Torture to let someone restart their life.
> 
> NOW I get how you are willing to wait to fvck until final. It aint that long compared to other states.
> 
> Imagine waiting 5 years with her attached to you fvcking Barney Fife on the side while you are stuck with Mr Hand.


Hell no! 90 day waiting period. Since we are doing it uncontested, we just filled out the paperwork, will sign it, wait the 90 days, and it will be done. So yeah, I can put up with whatever to just get this favorable settlement through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm

Sorry you are having to go through this.

I do completely understand why you are not confronting her for financial reasons, and though I would never do that myself, I support your choice. Its your life.

But I do think you are feeling so bad about the situation BECAUSE you are keeping quiet. I know if I tried to do what you are, I would feel like a doormat laying down and taking crappy actions from both my WW and this POS. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't fight back.

But since you have decided this is the best course for you, just stay strong brother. Know and understand that this is probably why you are having these feelings.

Once everything is in the Court for the final waiting period, then blast the h**l out of both of them. Expose them on Cheaterville. Throw her out of the house and inform her family that she didn't even have the decency to live up to your agreement to not engage in physical cheating until the divorce was final.

This will at least enable you to get part of this bile out after you are in the clear.

And you are right, she may very well lose her relationship with her children.

My father NEVER forgave his mother for running off with another man. He was very close to my grandmother's brothers and they never spoke to their sister again while she lived.

My Pop even refused to go see her when she was dying of cancer and asking for his forgiveness.

Your WW may REALLY come to regret this if she loses her kids forever.

More than likely, POS will turn out to be a disillusionment for her and be gone in a couple years once the 'butterflies' of new relationship is over and real life and its routine sets in.

Karma may very well exact a heavy price from your foolish WW for trying to relive her teens. 

Such sad stupidity.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD you ARE BACKING UP INFO OFF SITE RIGHT?

Sounds like the marriage has been rough for a long time. I hope you heal and fall in love again... With the woman you deserve. 

How long had it been rough? vs how long good?


----------



## hard_to_detach

Dyokemm said:


> Sorry you are having to go through this.
> 
> I do completely understand why you are not confronting her for financial reasons, and though I would never do that myself, I support your choice. Its your life.
> 
> But I do think you are feeling so bad about the situation BECAUSE you are keeping quiet. I know if I tried to do what you are, I would feel like a doormat laying down and taking crappy actions from both my WW and this POS. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't fight back.
> 
> But since you have decided this is the best course for you, just stay strong brother. Know and understand that this is probably why you are having these feelings.
> 
> Once everything is in the Court for the final waiting period, then blast the h**l out of both of them. Expose them on Cheaterville. Throw her out of the house and inform her family that she didn't even have the decency to live up to your agreement to not engage in physical cheating until the divorce was final.
> 
> This will at least enable you to get part of this bile out after you are in the clear.


I know that it would help me feel better to confront her on this but it would be short lived and my long term financial well being is more important. I have told several of my close friends and even told her dad. He will not say anything to her about it and supports me 100%. Eventually I will let her know but not now.

I think this is bothering me so much because it is another betrayal. I know, I can't trust her, but part of me really did believe that she would honor her agreement, or at least wait until the papers were filed.

Oh well, live and learn.


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> I think this is bothering me so much because it is another betrayal. I know, I can't trust her, but part of me really did believe that she would honor her agreement, or at least wait until the papers were filed.


Just continue being a good man and you will be vindicated. There is sadness at times in taking the high road. But there is never any doubt that you did the right thing. 

That being said, you do not have to tolerate her obvious abuse when she is right in front of you. As long as she is doing all of this outside of your marital home. Well, it's like I say. It's not that I hate my ex-wife. It's just that she is a bad person.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> HTD you ARE BACKING UP INFO OFF SITE RIGHT?
> 
> Sounds like the marriage has been rough for a long time. I hope you heal and fall in love again... With the woman you deserve.
> 
> How long had it been rough? vs how long good?



She first expressed discontent about six years ago. We were leaving our religion at the time and had a lot of pressure from family and friends so I just attributed it to that. Then about four years ago she started talking about how she felt like she missed out on her 20's and needed to experience living on her own. She pulled the I love you but not in love crap and had a short lived online fling with an old flame but never took it physical.

As we worked through that, I told her she could move out and live on her own for a while as long as it wasn't to just sleep around and act single. She liked that idea but never acted on it. She said that just knowing that it was an option helped. That turmoil went on for two years...not all bad but definitely up and down. Then two years ago she told me that she realized that there was nothing out there for her and she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me. We were perfect for each other and apologized for all the crap she had put me through.

After that we started really working on our relationship and things were great. Our teenager started acting up and our social life became more limited and we did not have much time to ourselves. I expressed my concerns and that I didn't feel like we were doing very well and she seemed surprised and hurt because she felt like we were. After talking about it for a while she did admit that she wasn't feeling "that feeling", basically the passion and spark of a new relationship but felt like it was just her and she wasn't capable of feeling that. I told her that is something you feel in a new relationship but eventually it goes away and what you are left with is what we have. Right up until the moment she met up with this POS she was saying she is committed to us.

I wouldn't say the last 6 years have been all bad. They had some bad times but the majority of it was good.


----------



## turnera

I wish SOMEone would educate people so they'd know you aren't GOING to keep feeling that 'spark' - that that spark is a temporary thing when you first meet someone and it goes away after a few years, and all you're left with is love and respect. Shame it's not enough for some people.


----------



## vi_bride04

....I don't like that "spark". Its just not real, IMO. I want the stuff that comes from years of knowing and being with someone. 

I guess the "spark" time is fun, but to me, its not what real love is.


----------



## hard_to_detach

hope4family said:


> Just continue being a good man and you will be vindicated. There is sadness at times in taking the high road. But there is never any doubt that you did the right thing.
> 
> That being said, you do not have to tolerate her obvious abuse when she is right in front of you. As long as she is doing all of this outside of your marital home. Well, it's like I say. It's not that I hate my ex-wife. It's just that she is a bad person.


I told her when this all started that I was not going to let this change me. I am going to continue being a good man and role model for my boys.

She continues talking and texting him but does not do it in front of me or while I am home. She has said she would never bring him to our home. I know I can't believe her now, so I am going to be vigilent in monitoring everything. If she breaks that agreement, she will be out of the house so fast she won't know what hit her.


----------



## Acabado

Don't believe also about when she will introduce OM to the kids, not the first overnight with OM... she will break any promise.
I'm not telling you this to hurt you but to have realistic expectations.

I keep sending negative vibes so this POS don't get a job nearby!


----------



## karole

You should also be careful what you tell her father. Whether he says he is on your side or not. Blood is ALWAYS thicker than water and when it comes down to it, his loyalty will be to her.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

hard_to_detach said:


> I told her when this all started that I was not going to let this change me. I am going to continue being a good man and role model for my boys.
> 
> She continues talking and texting him but does not do it in front of me or while I am home. She has said she would never bring him to our home. I know I can't believe her now, so I am going to be vigilent in monitoring everything. If she breaks that agreement, she will be out of the house so fast she won't know what hit her.


this is a horrible story. I am truly sorry for you. Go through with the divorce and under NO circumstances take her back. Because if you were to do that, then THAT would make you about the worst role model two sons could ever have. 

Hard to detach?? well for now nuture solid/strong feelings of scorn and contempt for your wife. Don't allow one shred of respect for her to remain with you. These circumstances are outrageous, they warrant it. Some "good men" cannot do this/cannot hate; some can. I suggest you become one of the latter. And don't entertain any kind of forgiveness for her for a long time. Save all your love for your sons and for your future SO, which I believe you should start looking for _right now_


----------



## Dyokemm

Nuclear,

I agree with you on the hatred and contempt. It has always worked for me in dealing with people who have wronged me.

After a relatively short period of time (and maybe a little revenge lol) and as contact with them goes away it changes in me to absolute indifference.

They could get hit by a bus and I could care less.

They are completely dead to me at that point.

Hard to Detach,

I support your choice about staying quiet my friend. That's the course you set for yourself and you should stick to it.

I just was sharing my thoughts on why this silence might be contributing to your feelings of depression and frustration.

If you can bite your tongue and wait to let that anger out til after, I support you 100%.

Just stay strong my friend.


----------



## hope4family

Find a safe person to talk to. 

I did, they always set me straight. Reminding me after I would vomit my anger out just what I was doing it all for.

Working out will also help with any feelings of aggression/depression.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I have a strong network of close friends who are letting me vent and get the anger out. One of them brainstormed with me on how I could get back at her and POSOM but in the end helped me to see that it would be nothing more than a temporary relief that would derail my long term goal. Believe me, I have anger, hate, and contempt. I am just trying to let it out in a healthy way. I know that holding on to it is not healthy and I also need to be careful how I let it out.

I have been working out, but not as much as I should, and it does help. She has complained over the last few years that she would like me to get into better shape. I know I was not in the best shape but she made me feel like I was a fat slob. I have lost 16 pounds since this started and am within 10 pounds of where I was when we got married, at 20 years old! I know I was not way out of shape like she made me feel but it feels good to get back to where I was and I know as this goes on I will end up in the best shape of my life. I guess I should thank her for that.  Although the stress diet is not the best or healthiest way to go about accomplishing this it really does work.


----------



## Lovemytruck

hard,

It sounds like you are doing the right things. That stress diet sucks, but it will end.

I also like hearing that you are venting to close, trusted people. Work through that, but have a goal to let it diminish. What I am trying to say is don't let the betrayal define who you are to everyone in your social circles.

Keep up the good work. You sound like things are getting better. I am sure you have the down times, but keep focused on the goal of having a better life. It will happen.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I am very aware of how much I vent to my friends. I try not to let it dominate our time together. If we are hanging out in person I will give them an update and vent a little then try to move on to other things. If I am having an especially hard day I will call them and they know that the call is for a purpose and are more than happy to let me vent and give me advice.

I know a lot of this will get much easier once she is out of the house. I also need to get another car. Her dad called me about his neighbor who is selling a pretty good, well running car for only $500, so I am going to get that for now just to ease some of the pressure. I told her she needs to go buy it for herself and of course she said I need to. When I asked her if she wanted to keep our car her response was, "not for the long term". I take that to mean that she is waiting for her boyfriend to buy her a new car. Until then we have to share the car or I buy this $500 car.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I am thinking about starting a new thread in the Going Through Divorce section. The title of my thread here is not accurate anymore. Thoughts?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> I am thinking about starting a new thread in the Going Through Divorce section. The title of my thread here is not accurate anymore. Thoughts?


I vote yes.


----------



## LostViking

If you move to the divorce section you will lose alot of the posters who have been following your journey. Stay in CWI until the divorce is final.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tron

I think if you ask a moderator to "move" the whole thread, i think that those members who typically stick to CWI that posted on this thread can still follow and track the thread through their user control panel. 

No need to change your thread name either. What is in a name anyway.


----------



## weightlifter

Im with LV and Tron. IF you need to move to D have them move this whole thing over.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I'll just keep it here. I don't want to lose any of you as you have all been so helpful.

We got into a pretty nasty fight last night. I confronted her on her relationship with him and she admitted they have had sex, so now it is in the open. I still have the bed but she won't give up the car, but she is going to go buy the other car so I have something to drive. She swears she is not going to move in with him and that she is trying to find a job....yeah right. We just kept going around in circles so we ended it and I left for a few hours. When I came back the boys were there and she and I put on a good front for them.

The good news is that I will soon have a car to drive and she confirmed that she will not be sleeping at home anymore. She tried to say that the reason she moved out of the bed was because she was tired of waking up every morning being molested.....WHAT? Our usual position for sleeping was me snuggled up behind her with my arm wrapped around her. I'm sure at some point in the middle of the night I would end up like that and my hand on her breast, but molesting? Really? I know she is just using whatever excuse she can so that she doesn't have to admit that it was him that told her he didn't like us sleeping together. She then tells me that it was me that pushed her to sleep with him because of the way I was acting. Whatever. Don't care anymore.

Her level of crazy is astounding. She tried to tell me that she is the same person she has always been, so I said "interesting, so you have always been a liar and cheater and I just didn't see it"....that didn't go over well but she didn't have any comeback for it. I know this interaction didn't accomplish much but it did make me feel mildly better and allowed me to get a lot off my chest to her. I think we'll be able to move forward for a while without as much tension as the last week.


----------



## happyman64

HTD

The key now is to really detach from her.

Because you nailed it. She is a liar and a cheat.

So continue to separate yourself from her infidelity.

All her accusations and reasons for her decisions are BS.

Your wife is selfish pure and simple.

Now get going.

HM64


----------



## tom67

She is nutz and the guy is a scumbag and will probably dump her and by then she'll realize what she lost.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I am doing my best to detach. Knowing they have taken it physical, as painful as it is, actually has helped. Now I have no illusion that we will get back together, I don't want her anymore. He is a scumbag...a cop scumbag. I just need their relationship to last long enough for the divorce to be final.

Both the boys are staying with friends tonight so I will have the house to myself, but last night I had a dream about it. She and I were sitting on the couch and she said we should take advantage of the boys being gone and have a date night. It was so real that when I woke up I had to figure out if it was a dream or not. I hope this kind of dreaming doesn't last long.


----------



## happyman64

Have you ever thought of reporting the cop scumbag???

Some police dept's take that kind of activity seriously.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I have, and I even talked to the hiring officer for one of the departments he is applying at. She said I could report him but since he is currently working for a small department there is a good chance they would sweep it under the rug. All it would do is piss him off and in turn my stbx and affect my divorce. I have also talked to a couple other cops I know and they agree that what he has done is frowned upon but wouldn't really result in anything serious. At this point I just want this to be over and get her out of my house with as little damage to me and the boys as possible.

I just talked to the paralegal company about my stated income. I based it on last year's tax return and they said I should have based it on the last 6 months. So I sent my stbx the new figures and had her call them to change it. They said it won't affect our signing date and it looks like it will drop about $115 a month off my payment.


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> I have, and I even talked to the hiring officer for one of the departments he is applying at. She said I could report him but since he is currently working for a small department there is a good chance they would sweep it under the rug. All it would do is piss him off and in turn my stbx and affect my divorce. I have also talked to a couple other cops I know and they agree that what he has done is frowned upon but wouldn't really result in anything serious. At this point I just want this to be over and get her out of my house with as little damage to me and the boys as possible.
> 
> I just talked to the paralegal company about my stated income. I based it on last year's tax return and they said I should have based it on the last 6 months. So I sent my stbx the new figures and had her call them to change it. They said it won't affect our signing date and it looks like it will drop about $115 a month off my payment.


You are definitely doing your due diligence.

At least your payment is dropping. And you are right, protect the boys.

Let us know when he drops her ass and she has the Aha! moment.


----------



## hope4family

happyman64 said:


> You are definitely doing your due diligence.
> 
> At least your payment is dropping. And you are right, protect the boys.
> 
> Let us know when he drops her ass and she has the Aha! moment.


Hopefully after the divorce. Anything before that would suck as she could suddenly turn the heat up on you. 

You don't deserve that trash.


----------



## ShootMePlz!

Even if they don't fire him it would still put him in a bad light among his boss and coworkers!! Lets face half of them have most likely had a cheating partner. Might even affect his career via promotions etc!!


----------



## hard_to_detach

Saw her this morning. We were able to be cordial and talk about some things going on with the family. I think that makes it harder on me. At least if I am angry and we hard fighting I don't get the flood of thoughts about our past and former plans for the future. I'm sitting here at work, it is slow, so I have too much time to think about all of this. I keep getting flooded with thoughts about why I loved her and the good times we had and what we had planned for the future. I just got back from working out hoping that would help but it didn't.

I'm just feeling really depressed today. I'm not worried about my future, just profoundly sad for the loss of the life I thought I had...and wanted.


----------



## turnera

Spend your time thinking about your core values and what a woman would have to be, to fit into that.


----------



## hope4family

hard_to_detach said:


> I'm just feeling really depressed today. I'm not worried about my future, just profoundly sad for the loss of the life I thought I had...and wanted.


Happens to the best of us. As Turnera said. Think about you, your core values. What do you want in your next relationship? What do you want in life? What do you want to do to improve yourself today?


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> I'll just keep it here. I don't want to lose any of you as you have all been so helpful.
> 
> We got into a pretty nasty fight last night. I confronted her on her relationship with him and she admitted they have had sex, so now it is in the open. I still have the bed but she won't give up the car, but she is going to go buy the other car so I have something to drive. She swears she is not going to move in with him and that she is trying to find a job....yeah right. We just kept going around in circles so we ended it and I left for a few hours. When I came back the boys were there and she and I put on a good front for them.
> 
> The good news is that I will soon have a car to drive and she confirmed that she will not be sleeping at home anymore. She tried to say that the reason she moved out of the bed was because she was tired of waking up every morning being molested.....WHAT? Our usual position for sleeping was me snuggled up behind her with my arm wrapped around her. I'm sure at some point in the middle of the night I would end up like that and my hand on her breast, but molesting? Really? I know she is just using whatever excuse she can so that she doesn't have to admit that it was him that told her he didn't like us sleeping together. She then tells me that it was me that pushed her to sleep with him because of the way I was acting. Whatever. Don't care anymore.
> 
> Her level of crazy is astounding. She tried to tell me that she is the same person she has always been, so I said "interesting, so you have always been a liar and cheater and I just didn't see it"....that didn't go over well but she didn't have any comeback for it. I know this interaction didn't accomplish much but it did make me feel mildly better and allowed me to get a lot off my chest to her. I think we'll be able to move forward for a while without as much tension as the last week.



her bf doesn't want her to sleep with you in the same bed. I'm wondering if she lied to him extensively about your marriage when you met him.(not that he deserves any pity)


----------



## Chaparral

The thing is, the vast majority of guys in this situation, figure out how easy it can be to improve their lives. The shock comes when they have created some distance, started dating, look back and say "I should send her a thank you note."

We see it here all the time. Comparing the new girlfriends to the ex really wakes guys up to how poorly they were actually treated. We tend to remember the good times until we see how much better it can be.

Read mmslp and find a date, waywards hate that too. In your next round never stop the romancing and the date nights. Never take anyone or anything for granted.

Just take this as a do over. I mean really, what kind of person does what she has done. A second rate cop, really, doesn't she have a clue about guys like that?


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> her bf doesn't want her to sleep with you in the same bed. I'm wondering if she lied to him extensively about your marriage when you met him.(not that he deserves any pity)


I've heard so many cheating cop stories over the years I can't believe there are still women out there that fall for their crap.


----------



## hard_to_detach

warlock07 said:


> her bf doesn't want her to sleep with you in the same bed. I'm wondering if she lied to him extensively about your marriage when you met him.(not that he deserves any pity)


No, she didn't lie to him. The issue is he broke up with his girlfriend so it bothered him that she still lives with me, slept in the same bed, and that we do things together with our boys. So he tells her all this and she moves out of the bedroom. I'm fine with that. He sounds like a controlling loser...and a whiner.

There are definitely some gems in the text exchanges between them but there is one that takes the cake for me. The day after she got back from NY I told her I was taking the car to work and would get off early so we could go to the lake. It was a nice day and I knew the boys would like it. She was complaining to him about me taking the car and how I was acting like nothing had changed. His response was:

"I just don't understand as a man what he's doing....I'm upset with him cause I don't understand his mindset of purposely prolonging this and making you be with him even though he knows you have never loved him. Violation of Man Law."

Violation of man law??? Really??? And pursuing a married woman and breaking up a family isn't a violation of man law? Then he goes on to whine about how hard it is that she can't talk or text him when I'm home. Mind you, at this point they have been talking for less than a month and he thinks she is his. There are other instances where he is just straight pouting. If he is what she wants...go for it...he is so far beneath me I shouldn't even waste my time thinking about him.


----------



## BK23

He sounds like total scum. Just what a loser like your STBX deserves. I have a feeling the karma bus is going to hit them hard.


----------



## LostViking

She will be miserable living with a cop. Most cops are good family men, but a percentage have very messed up ways of approaching life. I see him being extremely controlling. I guarantee if she moves in with him it won't last more than a couple years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> No, she didn't lie to him. The issue is he broke up with his girlfriend so it bothered him that she still lives with me, slept in the same bed, and that we do things together with our boys. So he tells her all this and she moves out of the bedroom. I'm fine with that. He sounds like a controlling loser...and a whiner.
> 
> There are definitely some gems in the text exchanges between them but there is one that takes the cake for me. The day after she got back from NY I told her I was taking the car to work and would get off early so we could go to the lake. It was a nice day and I knew the boys would like it. She was complaining to him about me taking the car and how I was acting like nothing had changed. His response was:
> 
> "I just don't understand as a man what he's doing....I'm upset with him cause I don't understand his mindset of purposely prolonging this and making you be with him even though he knows you have never loved him. Violation of Man Law."
> 
> Violation of man law??? Really??? And pursuing a married woman and breaking up a family isn't a violation of man law? Then he goes on to whine about how hard it is that she can't talk or text him when I'm home. Mind you, at this point they have been talking for less than a month and he thinks she is his. There are other instances where he is just straight pouting. If he is what she wants...go for it...he is so far beneath me I shouldn't even waste my time thinking about him.


There is still no doubt in my mind that this affair has been going on much longer than you know. She clearly has been lying to him also. He is still one steaming pile of human excrement or an absolute fool who believed her lies. Actually he is both.They deserve each other. As far as $hit she frankly is one big pile also.

That being said do yourself a favor and stop monitoring her. You know all you need to know. Monitoring her will not help you detach and move on. Monitoring her will hold you back. Read up on the 180. Unless it has to do with the children or expediting the divorce process cease further communication with her. Other than anything to do with your kids treat her like she is dead. She is dead as your wife. She killed your wife, not you. Don't waste your time mourning. She never mourned when she happily spread her legs at your emotional expense. Go lift weights. Hike. Go on a date with a real woman. Just go out and have a up of coffee with one. Have many dates. They will listen and a really good one will probably wait for you to recover from this and start living again.


----------



## Dyokemm

Hard to Detach,

Man, I don't even know where you get the strength to bite your tongue and keep it all in from.

If I had seen those comments from him, I would have not been able to stop myself from blasting that p***y via text, facebook, Cheaterville, etc.

I would have posted his comments verbatim and then let loose a statement of all the obvious truths you just mentioned.

This dirtbag has not a single clue about manhood and the behaviors involved or expected and I would expose his whiny little scummy a** as far and wide as possible. 

Your STBxWW is a freaking idiot to be attracted to this babyish POS.

I really hope karma bites her in the a** as hard as possible.

Keep strong my friend.


----------



## tom67

I give them maybe a year. Go find a younger hotter version of stbxw you'll be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Now that she has done the deed and r chance is zero imjust hoping stbxw and barney fife lasts long enuf which is approx nov 15th.

Im also hoping some girl at his work about 25 years old hears of HTDs plight and fvcks him in a closet at work. This way we get to hear about his ego coming back. Once that is repaired the heart will follow.

Yea i know he says he wants to wait but i seriously dont see alot of men turning down " fvck me"

Yes the pig in me LOVES the "holy sh!ti got some" posts.


----------



## Chaparral

Has she given you the " will still be friends" speech?

Do you have a link to the 180, its copyrighted and can not be posted?


----------



## Dyokemm

Chapparal,

Man, I hope if OP gets even a hint of that attitude, expectation, or speech from his WW, that he slams that door in her face as strongly and swiftly as possible.


----------



## weightlifter

He NEEDS the relationship to last until D is final. That is mid November. He is using her fog against her.

THEN his WW and Barney Fife can breakup.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> There is still no doubt in my mind that this affair has been going on much longer than you know. She clearly has been lying to him also. He is still one steaming pile of human excrement or an absolute fool who believed her lies. Actually he is both.They deserve each other. As far as $hit she frankly is one big pile also.
> 
> That being said do yourself a favor and stop monitoring her. You know all you need to know. Monitoring her will not help you detach and move on. Monitoring her will hold you back. Read up on the 180. Unless it has to do with the children or expediting the divorce process cease further communication with her. Other than anything to do with your kids treat her like she is dead. She is dead as your wife. She killed your wife, not you. Don't waste your time mourning. She never mourned when she happily spread her legs at your emotional expense. Go lift weights. Hike. Go on a date with a real woman. Just go out and have a up of coffee with one. Have many dates. They will listen and a really good one will probably wait for you to recover from this and start living again.


You would think this has been going on longer....but it hasn't. That is the crazy part. I know without a doubt that their contact started 3 days before they met up. She hasn't lied to him either. He is a grade A piece of ****...and so is she.

I am not monitoring her anymore. I just needed to know what was going on since she still lives in my house. Now that I know, it has a bearing on how I handle things moving forward. I am done mourning and am lifting weights, hiking, golfing, going out with friends, etc. Life is looking pretty good right now.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Chaparral said:


> Has she given you the " will still be friends" speech?
> 
> Do you have a link to the 180, its copyrighted and can not be posted?


Oh yeah, she said that when this all started. I told her I didn't know how that could be possible and the way she is acting now, I don't think she wants to be friends anymore.

Yes, I have read the 180 and am trying to live it now.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> Oh yeah, she said that when this all started. I told her I didn't know how that could be possible and the way she is acting now, I don't think she wants to be friends anymore.
> 
> Yes, I have read the 180 and am trying to live it now.


She is not your friend. Friends don't lie to one another and stab each other in the back. Friends don't betray each other. She is not your friend. She is a Judas. If she ever mentions 'friends' again tell her two words. Drop dead. If she does not want to be 'friends' good for you. Who needs friends like that?


----------



## hard_to_detach

So Friday night was interesting. She has only spent the night in my house three times in the last 3 weeks. So Friday I met some friends for drinks so she stayed home with the boys. She assumed I would be out all night and seemed concerned when she realized I would be home by midnight. She was probably trying to decide whether to stay or leave when I got home. I knew what she was thinking, so I took the key to our bedroom before I left.

Sure enough, I get home and the bedroom door is locked and a note on it that says "please do not come in here". The light was on in the bedroom so I knocked....no answer. I unlock the door and try to walk in and it won't budge. She had rolled up a towel and shoved it under the door to keep me from opening it. It works pretty good but I got the door open. The light is on, a big glass of wine next to the bed, and she is passed out with her phone next to her pillow. I grab my toothbrush and change and head out to the couch, but as I lay there I change my mind. I went back into the bedroom, put my pillow on my side and crawl into bed. I roll onto my side with my back to her and settle in to fall asleep. She wakes up and jumps out of bed, grabs her pillow and backpack and slams the door as she leaves. Comes back in and gets a few things, slamming the door as she leaves again, gets in the car and takes off, all without saying a word.

The next day we went to a co-ed baby shower for her brother and his girlfriend. Most of her family is their and a lot of old family friends. She is wearing a sun dress and has a patch of skin rubbed off her shoulder about 3 inches across and a huge hickey on the back of her leg. Real classy, as if people don't know they are battle wounds from her boyfriend. She left after they opened gifts, about two hours before anyone started leaving. After she left all of her family and friends start telling me how sorry they are and hope I will stay around and coming to these events. They really like me and offered me whatever help I needed.

Yesterday she went and looked at the car with her dad and decided she is going to buy a truck the lady is selling instead, so she is going to get that today. She also bought a couch set and dining set she was selling. She said she got it because it looked more manly than what we have and she thought I'd like it. She wouldn't say how much she spent and said not to worry about it. I think this is because she talked to one of our friends who told her that all of our friends are talking and think that I am going to set her up in an apartment so she can keep going to school and she is going to take advantage of me. I don't know where they got that idea from, and of course she thinks it's me talking to them, but it pissed her off. I am thinking these purchases are to prove that she isn't mooching off me and probably related to me coming down on her about how I pay for the house and the car. She can be mad all she wants, at least she is contributing.

We go to sign paperwork this afternoon.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> So Friday night was interesting. She has only spent the night in my house three times in the last 3 weeks. So Friday I met some friends for drinks so she stayed home with the boys. She assumed I would be out all night and seemed concerned when she realized I would be home by midnight. She was probably trying to decide whether to stay or leave when I got home. I knew what she was thinking, so I took the key to our bedroom before I left.
> 
> Sure enough, I get home and the bedroom door is locked and a note on it that says "please do not come in here". The light was on in the bedroom so I knocked....no answer. I unlock the door and try to walk in and it won't budge. She had rolled up a towel and shoved it under the door to keep me from opening it. It works pretty good but I got the door open. The light is on, a big glass of wine next to the bed, and she is passed out with her phone next to her pillow. I grab my toothbrush and change and head out to the couch, but as I lay there I change my mind. I went back into the bedroom, put my pillow on my side and crawl into bed. I roll onto my side with my back to her and settle in to fall asleep. She wakes up and jumps out of bed, grabs her pillow and backpack and slams the door as she leaves. Comes back in and gets a few things, slamming the door as she leaves again, gets in the car and takes off, all without saying a word.
> 
> The next day we went to a co-ed baby shower for her brother and his girlfriend. Most of her family is their and a lot of old family friends. She is wearing a sun dress and has a patch of skin rubbed off her shoulder about 3 inches across and a huge hickey on the back of her leg. Real classy, as if people don't know they are battle wounds from her boyfriend. She left after they opened gifts, about two hours before anyone started leaving. After she left all of her family and friends start telling me how sorry they are and hope I will stay around and coming to these events. They really like me and offered me whatever help I needed.
> 
> Yesterday she went and looked at the car with her dad and decided she is going to buy a truck the lady is selling instead, so she is going to get that today. She also bought a couch set and dining set she was selling. She said she got it because it looked more manly than what we have and she thought I'd like it. She wouldn't say how much she spent and said not to worry about it. I think this is because she talked to one of our friends who told her that all of our friends are talking and think that I am going to set her up in an apartment so she can keep going to school and she is going to take advantage of me. I don't know where they got that idea from, and of course she thinks it's me talking to them, but it pissed her off. I am thinking these purchases are to prove that she isn't mooching off me and probably related to me coming down on her about how I pay for the house and the car. She can be mad all she wants, at least she is contributing.
> 
> We go to sign paperwork this afternoon.


Take your mattress and take it to the landfill. Sheets too if they remind you of her. Buy a air mattress. A single, not a double. Or a army cot. Single of course. Padlock the door. Tell her the marital home bedroom is not a crashpad for her to recover from her whoring. She abandoned it, she now stays out of the marital bed. Tell her sleep on the sofa or go sleep outside, get a hotel. She complained about money, tell her to get a fu*king job. 

Start skipping her family events for the time being. Drop your kids off and pick them up later. You do not need to go anywhere with her. She got her own vehicle. let her use it.

I get the sense that you think that be playing along with her it will cost you less in the divorce going forward. Read a few hundred of the stories here. That happens rarely, like single digits. Cheaters string you along and in the end they get greedy. They want every cent the law entitles them and what they think they can get by persuading the judge. You always pay. Accept that she is going to try and suck everything from you she is legally entitled to. That being said there is no reason to play nice. Just play firm.


----------



## happyman64

After you sign the paperwork just send them a simultaneous text message to both those losers.

Thanking the OM for taking her off your hands.

You and your boys truly appreciate it.

You are going to be so much better off in life without her.


----------



## weightlifter

RE not monitoring: Hafta admit Im disappointed. Her BF is FULL of real "gems"

OK I get where the hickey is from. How do you lose skin on a shoulder? 1 layer so its pink or all scabby?? I know Im gonna get 999 "You dummy it is X" statements but Ill admit. I dont get that part.

Actually I think its kinda funny some of her family want HIM to be there more than HER. Sarcastic me would play that one hard.

Hang in there HTD.


----------



## weightlifter

Dont throw away the sheets etc. If you want them gone, Please donate. The mattress if it needs to go is worthless but someone who has to shop at Goodwill and there are millions of them will appreciate them and be none the wiser of the history involved. And Goodwill will make some money.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> RE not monitoring: Hafta admit Im disappointed. Her BF is FULL of real "gems"
> 
> OK I get where the hickey is from. How do you lose skin on a shoulder? 1 layer so its pink or all scabby?? I know Im gonna get 999 "You dummy it is X" statements but Ill admit. I dont get that part.
> 
> Actually I think its kinda funny some of her family want HIM to be there more than HER. Sarcastic me would play that one hard.
> 
> Hang in there HTD.


I haven't really thought too deeply about it, but there was one time we had an especially vigorus night in front of the fireplace and she ended up with a scab that ran all the way up her back from rug burn. This one doesn't look like that though. Not sure....don't care to know the details.

At the end of September, her brother's best friend is getting married and I am one of his groomsman. This guy has grown up with them for over 30 years and is like a member of the family. He comes to Thanksgiving, Christmas, family reunions, etc. She knows how everyone feels because she even said that if by that time we are not able to get along, she will not attend the wedding because I am in the wedding and obviously more wanted there than her....the groom confirmed that sentiment.

I have to admit, I too will miss some of the exchanges I have seen between them....they are quite entertaining and seeing this info over the past week has really helped me to move on and get my head in a good place. I know I will have my relapses but I feel better now than I have from the beginning. Perhaps it is the knowledge that in about 2 hours we will be signing paperwork and the count is on.

As for the bed and sheets. They have not done anything in that bed and she gets it in the divorce so I won't need to worry about it.


----------



## tom67

Make sure you bring a date to the wedding. Sounds like you are doing ok considering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

hard_to_detach said:


> she even said that if by that time we are not able to get along, she will not attend the wedding because I am in the wedding and obviously more wanted there than her....the groom confirmed that sentiment.


Awww, poor baby. Karma's a *****, ain't it?


----------



## happyman64

You have a good attitude.

As to the bed, since it will be hers then I suggest you leave a pile of 💩as a parting gift.

I think she will understand the meaning of that last memento.

Hang tough and enjoy the wedding. You will have a better time without her.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> I haven't really thought too deeply about it, but there was one time we had an especially vigorus night in front of the fireplace and she ended up with a scab that ran all the way up her back from rug burn. This one doesn't look like that though. Not sure....don't care to know the details.
> 
> At the end of September, her brother's best friend is getting married and I am one of his groomsman. This guy has grown up with them for over 30 years and is like a member of the family. He comes to Thanksgiving, Christmas, family reunions, etc. She knows how everyone feels because she even said that if by that time we are not able to get along, she will not attend the wedding because I am in the wedding and obviously more wanted there than her....the groom confirmed that sentiment.
> 
> I have to admit, I too will miss some of the exchanges I have seen between them....they are quite entertaining and seeing this info over the past week has really helped me to move on and get my head in a good place. I know I will have my relapses but I feel better now than I have from the beginning. Perhaps it is the knowledge that in about 2 hours we will be signing paperwork and the count is on.
> 
> As for the bed and sheets. They have not done anything in that bed and she gets it in the divorce so I won't need to worry about it.


Go the wedding. Rent a hot date if you have to.. Have fun ignoring her. 

Move the bed out to the garage tonight. She can sleep on it there. Then she will have no excuses to storm around the house like a petulant child slamming doors.


----------



## Dyokemm

She is leaving these family events early and doesn't want to go to the wedding because she is running from the consequences of her actions.

She knows everyone there thinks she is being an idiot. 

She is acting like a teenager who has a relationship her family disapproves of. It's pathetic behavior coming from an adult woman who has children.

All this is doing is damaging or destroying every relationship she has in life.

Karma is gonna kick her a** after this teenage fantasy with POS comes to a crashing end and the 'butterflies' are gone.

Ar that point, she's gonna wake up from the fog and see this: you'll be totally gone OP, her relationships with her kids will be gone or strained for the rest of her life, her relationship with her dad will be destroyed, and the rest of her family and friends will view her as pathetic and probably not want to interact with her much.

The karma bus is gonna be brutal for your STBxWW.

But she deserves this with the stupid and immature behavior she is exhibiting.


----------



## theroad

Violating Man Law

ROTFALMAO


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

happyman64 said:


> You have a good attitude.
> 
> As to the bed, since it will be hers then I suggest you leave a pile of &#55357;&#56489;as a parting gift.
> 
> I think she will understand the meaning of that last memento.
> 
> Hang tough and enjoy the wedding. You will have a better time without her.


Just before she picks it up the mattress:

Make a strategic slice in it which can be resown carefully and well hidden, leave a few carp inside as a parting memento and sew it back up.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I got home from work yesterday to find she had bought a truck, so now the single vehicle issue is resolved. I got changed and we went to sign the final paperwork. The papers are being sent to the court today and then the 90 day waiting period begins. I figure November 10th everything will be final. I get to claim both kids on this year's taxes and even though I will have to file as single, I will get to claim head of household.

The best news....thanks to the residential credit from the 50/50 custody, instead of over $1,300/month for child support, I only have to pay $246/month. She is still saying that I don't need to pay her but I told her that I am going to and if she doesn't want it she can cash the check and give me the money back. After thinking about it though, I am going to tell her that if she doesn't want it then she should put half into each of the boys accounts.

I'm feeling pretty good about all of this and am happy that the paperwork is processing with everything we had agreed on. I am taking some time for myself this week and am headed to San Diego with several friends to go to the Seahawks game. It will be a blast and she is definitely jealous about me going to the game and the fact that I am going with all of our friends which makes it a little sweeter.


----------



## karole

Tell her to put the money into college funds for your boys.


----------



## happyman64

karole said:


> Tell her to put the money into college funds for your boys.


:iagree:

And enjoy the game with your friends.

You deserve the time off from the kids and that knucklehead wife of yours.

Peace.


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Have a great time at the game. Weather has been awesome here in Socal so make sure to enjoy it.

The fact that she is jealous of your trip with your friends, in addition to the latent resentment she shows in ditching family events and possibly the wedding, just go to show how immature this bs has been.

She is obviously running into this whole thing without thinking of the fallout her life will go through.

The resentment comes from the fact that she is directly facing real and unavoidable changes to the life she has known for your entire M.

She is undoubtedly so foggy that somehow she had convinced herself that her life would continue unchanged except POS would be with her.

She probably expected that everyone would accept her need to be happy, even you, and you all could just remain friends, and eventually even POS would be accepted by all since she was happy.

The fact that most, of not all, of your friends and her family think she is acting stupidly has made her upset and resentful.

She sees you continuing the friendships and relationships you had built together and it upsets her.

If she were thinking maturely and rationally, these things might help get her out of the fog.

Unfortunately, teenage fantasy with the crybaby little POS is still more important to her.

Pathetic.


----------



## Shaggy

Now that the papers are signed, post the OM up on cheaterville.com and out him completely.

Now you no longer have to be passive and nice.

What a total scum bag , it's sickening to know trash like him is out playing cop. He deserves to be dumped into the gutter for breaking up a family - no way does he deserve to be in a position of authority.

Have you also exposed the scumbag and her cheating to friends and family?


----------



## hard_to_detach

Dyokemm said:


> The fact that she is jealous of your trip with your friends, in addition to the latent resentment she shows in ditching family events and possibly the wedding, just go to show how immature this bs has been.
> 
> She is obviously running into this whole thing without thinking of the fallout her life will go through.
> 
> The resentment comes from the fact that she is directly facing real and unavoidable changes to the life she has known for your entire M.
> 
> She is undoubtedly so foggy that somehow she had convinced herself that her life would continue unchanged except POS would be with her.
> 
> She probably expected that everyone would accept her need to be happy, even you, and you all could just remain friends, and eventually even POS would be accepted by all since she was happy.
> 
> The fact that most, of not all, of your friends and her family think she is acting stupidly has made her upset and resentful.
> 
> She sees you continuing the friendships and relationships you had built together and it upsets her.
> 
> If she were thinking maturely and rationally, these things might help get her out of the fog.
> 
> Unfortunately, teenage fantasy with the crybaby little POS is still more important to her.
> 
> Pathetic.


You have hit the nail squarely on the head! This is exactly what is going on. She does think that everyone should just be happy that she is happy and accept what she is doing. At some level she knows that there will be resistance, but she does want to be able to just plug him into my place and have everything be the same.

The teenage fantasy will end soon enough once real life smacks them both upside the head.


----------



## BK23

Sounds like a name change is in order... gratefully_detached?


----------



## hard_to_detach

BK23 said:


> Sounds like a name change is in order... gratefully_detached?


Exactly! Wish I could. It is amazing how much better I feel just two months post d-day. I know I have a ways to go, but I can handle this and the knowledge that this will just keep getting easier and better helps. Bracing myself for the day she comes crawling back after they break up....hope I don't have to deal with that.


----------



## tom67

hard_to_detach said:


> Exactly! Wish I could. It is amazing how much better I feel just two months post d-day. I know I have a ways to go, but I can handle this and the knowledge that is will just keep getting easier and better helps. Bracing myself for the day she comes crawling back after they break up....hope I don't have to deal with that.


By that time you will have a gf who will put the kabosh on that.


----------



## doubletrouble

There will be some shrapnel from that explosion, and some of it might come winging your way, but all you have to do is duck and cover till it goes by. Then keep on truckin', brother!


----------



## treyvion

weightlifter said:


> Now that she has done the deed and r chance is zero imjust hoping stbxw and barney fife lasts long enuf which is approx nov 15th.
> 
> Im also hoping some girl at his work about 25 years old hears of HTDs plight and fvcks him in a closet at work. This way we get to hear about his ego coming back. Once that is repaired the heart will follow.
> 
> Yea i know he says he wants to wait but i seriously dont see alot of men turning down " fvck me"
> 
> Yes the pig in me LOVES the "holy sh!ti got some" posts.


It's really not a big deal except these microfocused LBS... Everybodies having sex.

It is a real gamechanger that breathes life into any betrayed wife or husband.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> Exactly! Wish I could. It is amazing how much better I feel just two months post d-day. I know I have a ways to go, but I can handle this and the knowledge that this will just keep getting easier and better helps. Bracing myself for the day she comes crawling back after they break up....hope I don't have to deal with that.


As prideful as she has been I question now whether she will come crawling back. Her money is what will keep her from doing so. If she didn't have that money and was destitute then maybe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> As prideful as she has been I question now whether she will come crawling back. Her money is what will keep her from doing so. If she didn't have that money and was destitute then maybe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree, but that money will be gone within a year at the rate she is going. If she moves out on her own, she will have to shell out a lot to get situated. If she moves in with him, she will want to prove to him and others that she is not a mooch so she will spend money helping him get situated. Either way, it will be gone before this relationship explodes.

She is very prideful though, so maybe I won't have to deal with that....but everything else about this has been textbook so I'm sure I won't be so lucky.


----------



## LostViking

You should start dating. The brakes are off now. Would your boys mind?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> You should start dating. The brakes are off now. Would your boys mind?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know I have said I will wait until the divorce is final but if someone comes along, I would check her out. I won't go actively looking but I will enjoy it if it comes my way, I won't introduce anyone to them for a long time. The boys have said they hope I find someone good and won't have a problem with me dating, but they are not going to like it when mom starts dating. Should be fun when she tries to introduce her "new" relationship.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD. Here is your mission:

Get going on house parties. Relearn to flirt. Even your kid is cheering you on! Dont rush it. Eventually at one... You will flirt, she will smile, you will chat her up... She knows damn well what you are doing but is going to put up ZERO resistance. And its just gonna happen. And your ego is literally going to explode upward. Then you are gonna come back here, give us the (nonexplicit) details. You are going to wonder who reprogrammed the women to be so aggressive.

Its gonna look something like this at the 3rd or so house party you go to: "I met this girl Fri night at my friend Joe's house party. Was kinda mellow just talking with my buddy with a beer in my hand, when there was girl, maybe 8 years younger than me that caught my eye. She smiled... Cutting to the end we fvcked. HOLY SH!T I FEEL LIKE A NEW MAN! Weightlifter you were right. Im not 100 percent but... DAYUM I FEEL BETTER THAN I HAVE IN... DAMN better than YEARS!"

many of us LOVE these posts. Our charges are coming out the other side of a grim grim valley in their lives starting their climb back up to the other side and normal life. Then its your turn to stay here and help the men behind you, which is your pay-it-forward.


----------



## weightlifter

Here is a little inspiration. BFF is roughly one year behind you.
bff 07-24-2012, 12:33 PM 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-best-friend-having-least-ea.html#post933720

bff 08-07-2013, 09:35 AM 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...st-friend-having-least-ea-89.html#post3536785


----------



## jim123

Do not play games. It is very easy for her to get an order of protection on made up charges. Keep a VAR on you at all times. Keep your distance from her.

Get the D file on OM. See what type of man is.

If I read OM correct he will at some point confront you. Use that against him and get an order of protectiion. In what he does that will cost him his job.


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

So how was the trip to San Diego?

Hope you had the time of your life and got to meet a few of the absolutely gorgeous women here in SoCal.


----------



## weightlifter

Dyokemm said:


> HTD,
> 
> So how was the trip to San Diego?
> 
> Hope you had the time of your life and got to meet a few of the absolutely gorgeous women here in SoCal.


I hope he fvcked about 3 of them.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I had a blast! It was quite the adventure and I really like San Diego. I could see me moving down there once both the boys graduate. I did meet quite a few gorgeous women but I'm sorry to say I did not do anything. I was there with 8 friends, several of whom are extremely attractive women, and just wasn't feeling up to picking anyone up. I was just enjoying spending time with my friends as a single person and we didn't even talk about my life, which was refreshing.

I had another friend pick me up from the airport when I got back and he brought a friend of his, she is 19, so we grabbed a bite to eat and went home. They came in for a little while but she was below my standards and my boys were sleeping in the other room so I politely declined her advances. She was quite dissapointed but understood me not wanting to do anything with my kids home. She texted me most of the next day and I responded a bit but I'm hoping she just goes away.

Sorry weightlifter, I'll get there and make sure to let you know. My buddy thought I'd be interested just because she is so young, but my stbx is at least an 8 and I am not going to settle for a 4 or 5 just because she is young.


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

You'll love San Diego if you ever move.

I lived in Coronado for a year when I was stationed there while I did Surface Warfare Officers School in the Navy.

I was born and raised in Socal, and San Diego has always been one of my favorite places.

Keep focusing on these type of great possibilities for the future. All that is good in life will eventually come your way.

It's your immature and foolish WW who should be worried about what she's gonna face in the future.

For you, it will be all gravy.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Dyokemm said:


> HTD,
> 
> You'll love San Diego if you ever move.
> 
> I lived in Coronado for a year when I was stationed there while I did Surface Warfare Officers School in the Navy.
> 
> I was born and raised in Socal, and San Diego has always been one of my favorite places.
> 
> Keep focusing on these type of great possibilities for the future. All that is good in life will eventually come your way.
> 
> It's your immature and foolish WW who should be worried about what she's gonna face in the future.
> 
> For you, it will be all gravy.


I spent the day downtown before the game and then stayed at my friends house in Encinitas, three blocks off the beach. It was a cool town and they even have a Seahawks bar. I have several invitations to events that I hadn't accepted yet that I am now going to accept, one being a trip to Atlanta in November for the Hawks/Falcons game.

She is getting what she wants now but I know she will be jealous about my active full life. I haven't had much contact with her over the last week, but the little I have had, I can tell she is lonely. She is staying at friends house who are out of town and I am home with the boys. She was adamant about picking me up from the airport even though I had already made arrangements with a friend. (he is actually like a brother to her, grew up with her brother and has known her for 30 years) She tried to bully him out of picking me up but he told her to back off. I still don't understand why she was so insistent on picking me up.

I came home last Wed ready to do my laundry and pack for my trip and she had grabbed my clothes, washed them, and they were folded on the bed. She left a note telling me she hoped I had a blast and a good flight and left her portion of the phone bill in cash so I didn't need to go to the ATM. I know, I shouldn't try to understand her actions because they are all crazy. It is almost becoming entertaining to see what she says or does now.


----------



## BK23

You are sounding so much better, it's amazing. I hope things keep looking up for you!


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Do not read too much into it because giving yourself glimmers of hope only to have them smashed will just make you miserable.

But here's my take on what she is doing.

She is going through fear and second thoughts about what she is doing. This is a natural response for people faced with big decisions so I would attach no meaning to it at all.

In her fear and doubt, she is making these tiny efforts as a pathetic attempt to keep some connection to you. 

In other words, even though she would never admit it, she views you as her backup plan when her doubts and fears about the future are really on her mind a lot.

This in no way means she is getting ready to come out of the fog or reconsider what she is doing.

Fantasyland with POS is still too strong. 

But no human faces such monumental choices in life without those fearful thoughts about whether they are making a mistake, what will happen, will my kids hate me, etc.

In those moments it comforts her to think she might be able to scurry back to you after all if it all turns out to be a disaster, as long as she doesn't completely burn her connections to you.

Hence her mind boggling actions and small kindnesses that just leave you going WTF?


----------



## weightlifter

Sigh lost my response.

LOL HTD Im not directly disappointed you didnt score some sex. NOONE expects you to pork a woman you did not want to.

Many here are only here for the drama. Being the tech geek that gets many men their evidence I am wired a bit differently.

My motivation is just that. I mostly deal with the gathering of the evidence and thus the worst part of their lives. I like hearing about the climb up the other side of the valley.

Screwing new poon is just a major milestone. The milestone is the sum of my motivation and interest. Its not positions or kinks. Its the whens, hows, and wheres. Context so I may advise the next man I help, "Hey dude better start hitting those house parties..." type stuff. Plus since I deal with the bad part I enjoy immensely the good part of "DAMN I JUST GOT SOME AND FEEL AWESOME!"

Its the post by the betrayed man realizing his life is going on, and given the info we have given him, he realizes he WILL do well in the future in the women department.

The vast majority WILL love again and WILL pick better the second time.

Your ex wife was a part time model? Dude that is what an 8 is. 8s are rare at about 2% of the population. If she isnt a former model I would guess she is a 7. (no offense but I havent seen a pic but Im betting a 7 and yes a 7 is far far more common) A 9 is a full time model. A 10 is like 1 in 10000 women. 10s marry Billionaires.

Oh and warning. SHE CROSSED THE PA LINE AFTER YOU WARNED HER it spelled zero chance at R!!!!!! IF she isnt together still with Barney Fife too damn bad.

Trade her in on HTD WIFE model 2.0 with the loyalty chip pre-installed and the fickleness bug patched. I mean of all things having coffee with someone... dubya tee eff. 

Sorry you are in that upper 10% of compelling stories. We all wanna see you as happy as BFF is now with a new woman... Yes I know it will be some time. Just be open to it when potential wife 2.0 crosses paths with you and you are well healed and ready. Please stick around.
1) You can provide exceptionally valid input. Especially in dissuading doormat behavior.
2) I hope to some day use this thread just like BFFs. Nov 20, 2015... "just look at Hard to detach. <link to this thread> he is getting married next summer to a beautiful <insert desired occuption> who is eight years younger than he and could not be happier. If he can get through what he went through YOU CAN TOO!"

I hope my info and advice have been good and I have been of good use to you.

WL


----------



## LostViking

HTD, enjoy the advances of women and allow it to bolster your self esteem. I think it's great you got hit on by a younger woman. Take your time, and when the right gal comes along then don't hold back. Enjoy the healing powers of a woman's touch! It will rebuild what your wife tore down better than anything. 

Ignore your wife's petty attempts at friendship. Like the others have said, she is only doing these things to keep you on the hook. How manipulative can she be?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

LostViking said:


> HTD, enjoy the advances of women and allow it to bolster your self esteem. I think it's great you got hit on by a younger woman. Take your time, and when the right gal comes along then don't hold back. Enjoy the healing powers of a woman's touch! It will rebuild what your wife tore down better than anything.
> 
> Ignore your wife's petty attempts at friendship. Like the others have said, she is only doing these things to keep you on the hook. How manipulative can she be?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Behold!!!! The power of poon!


----------



## weightlifter

My above post should be done in the voice of those old commercials. Behold the power of cheese!


----------



## hope4family

Even though my ex-wife will never admit it. She wants to be friends "for the kids". But it is all a facade and a front for keeping someone as a plan B. 

They'll want their opinions on how you raise the kids on your time to matter. 
They'll want a portion of control in your daily lives with them. 
They'll look for openings in which they can power grab or blackmail. 

Just stay disconnected and at 1,000ft. I can't tell you how many times my ex wanted to (and still does) talk about our sons visitations hours with her. But never once has asked me to sit down and talk, and even rejected invitations from me to come over and discuss it. 

Those advances from other women are nice though aren't they? It feels really good to turn down. Remain positive. Watch them line up. 

Wait until your dancing on the beach one night and a 19 year old lady wraps their leg over your shoulder and around your head. If I could be trapped in a non-sexual moment the rest of my life....that'd probably be it. 

Get ready. The fun has just begun!


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> I spent the day downtown before the game and then stayed at my friends house in Encinitas, three blocks off the beach. It was a cool town and they even have a Seahawks bar. I have several invitations to events that I hadn't accepted yet that I am now going to accept, one being a trip to Atlanta in November for the Hawks/Falcons game.
> 
> She is getting what she wants now but I know she will be jealous about my active full life. I haven't had much contact with her over the last week, but the little I have had, I can tell she is lonely. She is staying at friends house who are out of town and I am home with the boys. She was adamant about picking me up from the airport even though I had already made arrangements with a friend. (he is actually like a brother to her, grew up with her brother and has known her for 30 years) She tried to bully him out of picking me up but he told her to back off. I still don't understand why she was so insistent on picking me up.
> 
> I came home last Wed ready to do my laundry and pack for my trip and she had grabbed my clothes, washed them, and they were folded on the bed. She left a note telling me she hoped I had a blast and a good flight and left her portion of the phone bill in cash so I didn't need to go to the ATM. I know, I shouldn't try to understand her actions because they are all crazy. It is almost becoming entertaining to see what she says or does now.


Guilt is a strange thing. She is probably trying to be friends with you so that she can feel less horrible about herself


----------



## happyman64

I agree. It is the guilt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

She came home yesterday morning after I left for work and took the boys out for school clothes shopping and lunch. It is something they do every year and make a day of it. Of course she is posting on Facebook all day about what she is doing with them and then how she is enjoying the last bit of time with them by watching a movie. Everybody knows it is me that is careing for them on a daily basis and am the one that is there for them and she knows that, so she needs to put it out there to show she is a good mom.

I took advantage of the time and went golfing with a buddy of mine. I love my boys but it sure was nice to not rush home after work. I have averaged 1 or 2 rounds of golf a year for the last 14 years because I always felt a little guilty spending the money and taking that much time for myself.....not anymore. This was my 4th round in the last two months and it feels great to get out there again and improve my game.

I agree that she is feeling guilt and that is motivating some of her actions toward me. She has always said that she wants to remain friends through all of this, that she still considers me one of her best friends and would hate to lose that. I don't know if she still feels that way though. She has been pretty pissed about some of the things I have done, which has just been me putting my foot down and not letter her call the shots and walk all over me, so she may not feel the same way about me. Why would she feel like I would want to remain friends with someone who has done what she has? I'm not really asking, just a rhetoricle question.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> She came home yesterday morning after I left for work and took the boys out for school clothes shopping and lunch. It is something they do every year and make a day of it. Of course she is posting on Facebook all day about what she is doing with them and then how she is enjoying the last bit of time with them by watching a movie. Everybody knows it is me that is careing for them on a daily basis and am the one that is there for them and she knows that, so she needs to put it out there to show she is a good mom.
> 
> I took advantage of the time and went golfing with a buddy of mine. I love my boys but it sure was nice to not rush home after work. I have averaged 1 or 2 rounds of golf a year for the last 14 years because I always felt a little guilty spending the money and taking that much time for myself.....not anymore. This was my 4th round in the last two months and it feels great to get out there again and improve my game.
> 
> I agree that she is feeling guilt and that is motivating some of her actions toward me. She has always said that she wants to remain friends through all of this, that she still considers me one of her best friends and would hate to lose that. I don't know if she still feels that way though. She has been pretty pissed about some of the things I have done, which has just been me putting my foot down and not letter her call the shots and walk all over me, so she may not feel the same way about me. Why would she feel like I would want to remain friends with someone who has done what she has? I'm not really asking, just a rhetoricle question.


Just show her your friends don't stab you in the back. Your friends don't use you for tuition then plot a exit affair once they have the training to stand on their own feet. Your friends don't betray you over a cup of coffee. Show her by teaching your children what being true friends is all about. Loyalty and honor are a major part of being true friends. Selfish conniving betrayal is not. No one need a Judas in their life. 

You sound like you are in a good place all things considered. Are you teaching your children to golf?


----------



## His_Wife_77

hard_to_detach said:


> A little background...we have been together 15 years, married 14, and have two boys 15 and 11. We got married very young and have struggled financially and had some bumps in our relationship but nothing every relationship goes through from time to time. She had a Facebook relationship about 4 years ago that included sex/dirty talk. We struggled throught that and came close to divorce over a two year period. For the last two years we were able to be more open with each other and she has admitted that she had never been "in love" with me but she does love me very much. We are best friends and have been a beacon to our friends of a good relationship and doing what it takes to make it work.
> 
> I have known that she felt like something was missing and have always done everything I can to be there for her. She started college in January and is working toward her dream career. She will be done a couple years before our youngest graduates. Since we had kids so young we have been talking about how nice it will be that she will have a good career too and we will be able to move wherever we want and begin our life together. She has really seemed content in her life.
> 
> She got a message on Facebook from her ex-boyfriend last week. They dated for 2 months, 17 years ago, but besides me it was her longest relationship. He is a cop and is moving to be closer to his kids and needs to list all of his ex-girlfriends on his applications. She was upfront with me about it and I joked that he is just trying to find her to try and get back with her. She said "no way, he has young kids and I don't want that". She chatted with him a little on Facebook and didn't hide any of it. Just innocently filling each other in on their lives. I had a bad feeling though. He was going to be in town on an interview and she said they wanted to meet for coffee and to catch up. I expressed my concern and she insisted that I have nothing to worry about, that she is commited to us and nothing will happen.
> 
> So they meet up for about two hours a week ago Friday. Saturday she spent at home studying for finals this week while me and the boys hung out at our friend's house. Sunday she spent studying and me and the boys hung out at the house. She texted him a bit and again was upfront that they were texting and shared some of the things they talked about. Having been through this before, my gut was telling me that something was wrong so I checked our phone records and found that they had spent 2 straight hours texing on Saturday and when I checked her phone she had deleted them. So I asked her on Monday night if I could look at her texts with him. I could tell by the look on her face that we were in trouble.
> 
> Apparently, in the two hours they spent together at a local coffee shop, she realized that he is her one true love and is ready to throw away our 15 year relationship. I told her that I can't keep doing this and that if she needs to "explore" her feelings for him then we are done. Either she wants to be with me or she doesn't. She said she didn't think she could feel like this about anyone and had resigned herself to the fact that she wouldn't and was ok with that. She was prepared to spend the rest of her life with me and the life we had built, but she can't ignore this. I told her that if that is her stance then we are done and she needs to move out. Of course she won't and won't leave the kids. We have been living on my income alone for the last year so are not in a good position financially. She received some inheritance money last year from her grandma and used that to get her boob job and a cruise for the family at the end of this summer and her schooling. Of course, she won't use that to move out. She is going to get a job now that school is out but until she is able and we can figure out how to handle all of this she will still be living with me.
> 
> She tells me that he is trying to be respectful. I told her that if he was being respectful, he wouldn't be trying to date a married woman, but according to her he feels the same as she does. He is in a relationship that is less than a year old so he isn't giving up much to make this happen. I told her that I do not want her meeting up with him while she is living in my house. I will not have my "wife" dating while I am still supporting her. There isn't much I can do about them talking on the phone and texting. She said they will not make it physical until our divorce is final but will continue to talk to him. I told her she is trying to have her cake and eat it too. She is able to get to know him and see if it is real while having the comfort of living with me. If she and he were truly respectful and honorable they would cease all contact until she can move out and our divorce is under way. Of course she doesn't see it that way. The fact of the matter is, I can't force her to leave the house and she has money she can use on a lawyer and so does her mom, so if I force the siftuation she can destroy me. If I play along we will probably be able to work this out without lawyers but I am stuck living with her until she gets out.
> 
> What do I do? Last time this happened the "relationship" fizzled out and she came to her senses. This may be triggered by the fact that she is turning 35 and just started school again. Trying to re-claim some feeling from the past?


Okay usually, I take a much more diplomatic approach but..... here is what you should..

Take her sh*t and put it on the curb. She's the one willing to leave for some dude and tear apart a family, so how can she destroy you? She should NOT be entertaining this man AT ALL while under the same roof with you at the bare minimum! She *owes you respect *at the least for the 15 years and children you have together. If she isn't in love with you, give her over to what she wants... She wants out.. Give her OUT.. 

Ugh!!! Sorry, I just really hate when people act as if they are not accountable for their actions... 

You deserve better............


----------



## hard_to_detach

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Are you teaching your children to golf?


I have tried but they have no interest. I am going to push them a little to come with me because I think it will be some good bonding time for us. Once they get better I'm sure they will enjoy it. I started golfing when I was 12 so it's about time they start.


----------



## Fisherman

Tell they they can drive the cart, worked every time for me.


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Kill this friends fantasy she has immediately the next time she brings it up.

She needs to get it through her head that the life she enjoyed before is OVER in every way possible to conceive.

Man is she fogged up.

Sorry you have to deal with that on top of everything else.


----------



## warlock07

With friends like her, who needs enemies.

Pretty sure, in her mind she think "Yes, I did a selfish thing but it was better off for both of us in the longer run and sooner or later, he will get over it and we can co-parent like friends"


----------



## Chaparral

It happens more often than not that wayward wives here want to be friends after the divorce, usually till they figure out the betrayed husband has found a younger, prettier,nicer girlfriend than her. Then the shrew comes out.

Most men simply make it clear that the stbxw will just be someone they used to know.

Personally, I would tell her she is already dead to me. I would be telling her I have a date, whether or not that's what I was doing.

Didn't she move out, why haven't the locks been changed?

Btw, I would not let anyone I can't trust do my laundry or anything else for me. I would crawl before I let her pour water on me if I was on fire. Lol

It just feels like you are making this easy on her. That always backfires.


----------



## LostViking

The next time she mentions the friends b.s. turn to her, look her in the eye and say cooly *"STBXW, I will be cordial and polite to you for the sake of our children. But I will never....ever... be your friend. In fact, I would not bother to piss on you if you were on fire."*


----------



## Row Jimmy

Seems a bit harsh.... 

I would still piss on her if she was on fire... and I'd be friendly for the sake of family harmony with the kids but being "friends" is pushing it....


----------



## Dyokemm

No more harsh than what she and this babyish little POS have done to his and his kid's lives.

If she can't handle the reality of the situation, then that's on her.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Oh man, this just gets better and better. I just got an email from my stbx. Apparently my sister took it on herself to send my stbx a nice long email detailing my visit and how I broke down while telling them and outlined everything I told them. So I get a long nasty email from my stbx. I'll give you a few of the best parts:

_"I'm going to try to respond to her today, but the message was exceptionally long and there's a lot to cover, and as you can probably imagine, I'm pretty angry and I want to make sure I don't say anything that could hurt you... pretty ironic considering one of the things that she said was that she knows I'm a vindictive person and she'll kick my ass if I cause drama for you, because she knows I have that in me. Every person has it in them to be vindictive and I think you've demonstrated that pretty well throughout this process so far. I have bent over backwards, and sacrificed myself to make things as easy as possible, and take care of the things that hadn't been taken care of. I resent you playing this out to be me having had an affair on you, that is not the case despite how you may feel. I realize how destroyed you are, and because of that I was willing to take a certain amount of punishment from you. But I told you in the beginning that if you got nasty and pushed me too far, I would fight back, and I've showed you I wasn't kidding. Despite that, I still want what's best for you and for you to have a good relationship with your family. So I would never throw you under the bus with them to defend myself."_

_"Even in your self-pittying, selective memory state of existence right now, you should be able to flash through the years of extreme hurt and abuse I've incurred from them and understand all the things I really want to say. So I hope you can apprecitate a little what I won't say. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you wouldn't be fair to me with your family about the situation now that we're divorced, because you never did when we were married, but I am disappointed."_

(Yes, my family did not want me to marry her and did put her through the wringer in the beginning but eventually accepted her and loved her)


_"You said you realize your part in all this, but you're not acting like it. I really thought we could come away from this eventually as friends, that I would never dislike you, and that we could both be mature about this. But that is not how I am feeling. I keep hoping that if I speak up and tell you what I'm feeling, you will stop, but that's not happening. I told you after the baby shower that if things aren't good between us, I don't want you around my family, but the other day you decided to take the boys to my dad's to see my Aunt and Uncle without me??? That is not ok to me. That is not your responsibility or your right. If things were different between us right now, that would be something we could discuss ahead of time, but considering I'm not here in the evening because I don't have anywhere to sleep because you refuse to take turns in the bed and I don't want to be around you, it's not ok for you to take it upon yourself to take them to see my family."_


----------



## LostViking

Sounds like your family knew she was pondscum when you married her and tried to warn you off...

Looks like they were right.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Wow, she HATES not having control of your life. How does someone reconcile, with themselves, "I cheated on you, let's be friends?" The other one is "But, I didn't have the affair on you?" Wow, your spouse is lost. She even turned your "I contributed to marriage problems" into "OMG LOOK AT WHAT YOU AND YOUR Family DID."

So, if I understand the excerpts, you can't talk to your family about her idiocy? L-O-L.


Well, at least you know she blames you for her cheating and still hasn't accepted ANY responsibility. The delusional rewrites of a cheater is remarkable.

Oh yeah, she lost the exclusivity on her family the SECOND your kids were born.


----------



## tom67

You should reply "are you done?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> Oh man, this just gets better and better. I just got an email from my stbx. Apparently my sister took it on herself to send my stbx a nice long email detailing my visit and how I broke down while telling them and outlined everything I told them. So I get a long nasty email from my stbx. I'll give you a few of the best parts:
> 
> _"I'm going to try to respond to her today, but the message was exceptionally long and there's a lot to cover, and as you can probably imagine, I'm pretty angry and I want to make sure I don't say anything that could hurt you... pretty ironic considering one of the things that she said was that she knows I'm a vindictive person and she'll kick my ass if I cause drama for you, because she knows I have that in me. Every person has it in them to be vindictive and I think you've demonstrated that pretty well throughout this process so far. I have bent over backwards, and sacrificed myself to make things as easy as possible, and take care of the things that hadn't been taken care of. I resent you playing this out to be me having had an affair on you, that is not the case despite how you may feel. I realize how destroyed you are, and because of that I was willing to take a certain amount of punishment from you. But I told you in the beginning that if you got nasty and pushed me too far, I would fight back, and I've showed you I wasn't kidding. Despite that, I still want what's best for you and for you to have a good relationship with your family. So I would never throw you under the bus with them to defend myself."_
> 
> _"Even in your self-pittying, selective memory state of existence right now, you should be able to flash through the years of extreme hurt and abuse I've incurred from them and understand all the things I really want to say. So I hope you can apprecitate a little what I won't say. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you wouldn't be fair to me with your family about the situation now that we're divorced, because you never did when we were married, but I am disappointed."_
> 
> (Yes, my family did not want me to marry her and did put her through the wringer in the beginning but eventually accepted her and loved her)
> 
> 
> _"You said you realize your part in all this, but you're not acting like it. I really thought we could come away from this eventually as friends, that I would never dislike you, and that we could both be mature about this. But that is not how I am feeling. I keep hoping that if I speak up and tell you what I'm feeling, you will stop, but that's not happening. I told you after the baby shower that if things aren't good between us, I don't want you around my family, but the other day you decided to take the boys to my dad's to see my Aunt and Uncle without me??? That is not ok to me. That is not your responsibility or your right. If things were different between us right now, that would be something we could discuss ahead of time, but considering I'm not here in the evening because I don't have anywhere to sleep because you refuse to take turns in the bed and I don't want to be around you, it's not ok for you to take it upon yourself to take them to see my family."_


Tell your sister and the rest of your family to butt out. She is not helping anything. 

If her family invites you that is none of her business, She can take it up with them. Don't respond to this email. She is looking for drama. It is always about her...


----------



## Chaparral

I would send her a message. 

"I have been researching what and how people commit adultery. You fit all the categories perfectly. Lying ,cheating, low morals, rewriting marital history etc. Etc. Ad nauseum.

You are following the cheater script to a tee. For your own good, google cheating statistics. Its very enlightening what you will see in reading your fortune. 

Friends? I would never knowingly be a friend to you or any other cheating -----.

Good luck."


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, I think you should contact the cops ex wife and find out why they divorced. I'm just guessing he cheated. Otoh, how do you know he is really divorced besides what you lying wife told you?


----------



## warlock07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hjNY4o_i5RY&t=66



> Pretty sure, in her mind she think "Yes, I did a selfish thing but it was better off for both of us in the longer run and sooner or later, he will get over it and we can co-parent like friends"


I deserve an award or something...


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Tell her she has no say anymore in who you talk to and see, including her family if they invite you, or what you say or share about your life.

She is not your friend and you never have any intention of being otherwise.

If she can't handle the fact that everyone, including her own family, think she is being an immature idiot, then maybe she needs to look in the mirror an do some self-reflection.

And finish by telling her you reject her bs rewrite of the M to justify her scummy A with this POS. She started seeing and banging this family destroying s***bag before she was officially separated or divorced. That is by definition an affair.


----------



## Dyokemm

To h**l with her and her selfish, crappy behavior, not only towards you, but her own children too.

Reading about WW's and exWW's on TAM has really allowed me to understand why my Dad refused to ever have a relationship with my trashy, whorish grandmother, refusing to even go see her when she was dying.

Selfish, cheating losers deserve every negative thing that ever comes their way.

Sorry for the short rant HTD, but your STBX really pisses me off with her bs treatment of you and your family.


----------



## happyman64

HTD

I hoped your responded with something like this:

"You know your delusional right?"

or an RG response:

"You know your a psycho right?"

Please keep the VAR on you t all times or your "friend" might just try to kill you in your sleep as a sign of affection....

HM64


----------



## turnera

"Wow. Must be lonely up there in that stratosphere."


----------



## hard_to_detach

When I first got her email I was pissed at my sister. My stbx sent me what my sister sent and even though everything she said was spot on, I told her not to do something like that. I left a voicemail for my sister but have not talked to her yet. I am going to tell her to butt out and do not contact my stbx again and tell the rest of the family the same. It does nothing but inflame the situation and make my life more difficult.

I figured those excerpts would give you all a front row seat to the delusional behavior I am facing....not that you haven't already experienced this in your own lives. I know exactly how her mind is working though. In her mind, back on June 10th when I confronted her and she admitted her feelings and I said we should get divorced, that is the date our marriage officially ended so she is free to do whatever she wants. That is why she doesn't think she is having an affair. It amazes me the level of twisted logic she uses to justify her actions.

Her dad's brother and sister are in town from the east coast and I have never met his brother so we went over there last night. She stayed for while but of course left before the night was over. The boys wanted to leave with her so she dropped them at home and I stayed to spend time with her family. We didn't talk about my divorce but her step-mom did comment on how well we were getting along and even noticed my stbx flirting with me. I can be civil for the sake of the kids and the family but that does not mean I will be her friend and any flirting on her part is lost on me. She will go to great lengths to keep her hooks in me and as phillybeffandswiss said, she HATES not having control of my life. And yes warlock you do deserve an award....very insightful


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Perfect!


----------



## LongWalk

It's cute the way she struggles to be friends. Give her credit for trying to think while being love/sex drugged. People who are in love want to share their high, even with their BS, because love is great. It's making her world spin. Why not yours? Can't you cling to her world to keep up with her? The hickey and carpet burn were exhibited to all because her love should even make family watch in admiration. 

Hold on though, people don't like seeing a woman abdicate her parental role because there is a new axis upon which she has planted herself. You will never want her back, but she doesn't see the obvious. Once you start dating and she knows about you being happy getting laid or emotionally satisfied, the new axis upon which she sits will suddenly lose a bit of lubrication. She is taking the old bed right? POSOM will not be the magic man when she gets depressed about her parental role.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Happiness is the best revenge...


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

I laughed when I read her 'view' on why she is not a cheater.

Even if she considered you 'divorced' from the day you confronted her about POS and ending your M was first discussed, SHE WAS STILL CHEATING IN AN AFFAIR.

She admitted, ON THAT DAY, that she was in love with this POS. Now unless love outside your vows can suddenly invade your body like a virus, it means she had to have been cheating in an EA before the day she looks at you two as 'officially' over.

She can't even be logical based on her stupid cheater thinking.


----------



## Shaggy

Wow.

She's lost touch with anything resembling reality.


----------



## Shaggy

About the being friends, the best response is along the lines of

"I've always believed a person is partially defined by the kind of friends they keep, do you'll understand as a repeat cheater , a vile woman who tossed aside her husband and family for a lowlife looser, that frankly my dear you don't even begun to measure up as good enough for me to ever be friends with. Your no better than lowlife trash, and once the papers are signed not only are we not friends, but you'll be effectively dead to me."


----------



## librarydragon

I think you should leave her family to her. Why do you need to spend time with them? Yes, they are your boys' family...but they are not yours. Spend time with your children with your own family.

I have a friend who has been dating a widower for more than 10 years. He still drags her to his "wife's" family weddings, reunions, holiday gatherings, etc. It's creepy, and disrespectful to her at this point.

You are either severing ties, or you aren't. Why do you need to attend HER family functions?


----------



## workindad

librarydragon said:


> I think you should leave her family to her. Why do you need to spend time with them? Yes, they are your boys' family...but they are not yours. Spend time with your children with your own family.
> 
> I have a friend who has been dating a widower for more than 10 years. He still drags her to his "wife's" family weddings, reunions, holiday gatherings, etc. It's creepy, and disrespectful to her at this point.
> 
> You are either severing ties, or you aren't. Why do you need to attend HER family functions?


I absolutely disagree with this. The kids have a right to visit their family and their family has a right to see the kids. If you were invited by them then the decision is yours. You weren't dragging a date of 10-years. You were taking the kids.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

librarydragon said:


> I think you should leave her family to her. Why do you need to spend time with them? Yes, they are your boys' family...but they are not yours. Spend time with your children with your own family.


 His kids do not suddenly change their relationships because of divorce.




> You are either severing ties, or you aren't. Why do you need to attend HER family functions?


His kids don't sever ties and no, he'll never fully sever ties. His kids need to understand that divorce may end the parents relationship, but the other family ties still exist. You'd have a point if they had no kids.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I told her last week that she isn't sparing me anything by not telling me when she drives over to spend time with him as I already assume she is there as much as possible. I asked that she let me know when she goes so that I know that she won't be around for the boys. So she tells me she will be over there all weekend.

Yesterday I get a call from her that her dad wanted us to come over for a bonfire with her aunt and uncle. Of course she can't make it but he wants me and the boys to come over. She tells me that she doesn't want me to go since she can't. I told her that if her dad wants me and the boys there, she doesn't really have a say. She said she hopes that I will respect her wishes on this so I tell her that if her dad calls me directly and asks me to come over with the boys I will. She was pissed.

Sure enough, her dad calls me 20 minutes later to ask that we come over. He wants his grandkids to spend as much time with his brother and sister as possible before they go home. So I sent her a text letting her know that he called and we are going. Her response was, "Please don't talk about me...at all". That is her concern, that we are going to be talking about her while she isn't there. Her dad still does not approve of her actions and their relationship is not good. My response to her is that she does not get to tell me who I can or can't spend time with.

When the time comes that I am in a new relationship, I'm sure I will change how I approach my ex's family, but for now I will be there if they want me to.


----------



## happyman64

HTD

I think you handled this well. 

Your FIL obviously does not like his daughters decisions. Not your problem.

Your wife does not like the consequences of her actions. Not your problem.

What your wife should really worry about is if your ExFil likes your next wife better than his daughter.....

Not your problem.

Keep being you HTD.

And continue to let the consequences of her actions smack her upside her head.

Someday it might clear up her thinking. But I doubt it.

HM64


----------



## azteca1986

hard_to_detach said:


> My response to her is that she does not get to tell me who I can or can't spend time with.
> 
> When the time comes that I am in a new relationship, I'm sure I will change how I approach my ex's family, but for now I will be there if they want me to.


I think right now you're setting an excellent example for your boys. They'll value it even more when they are older. Your response to their mother's poor choices and actions is highly commendable.


----------



## hope4family

This is a stressful. But vindicating time for you H2D. I remember when I told my ex-'s parents. 

The hell I got. 

When my sister confronted my ex. 

The hell I got. 

The why can't we just be friends comments. 

Life would be great if I could be friends with my ex-wife. But ya'know, this isn't a sitcom. I have tried the "be friendly approach." But and I say this with nothing but truth. It will ultimately be only to serve their own ends. 

"Let's be friends." - So I can get something from you. 
"Let's be friends." - So I can have more time with our child outside of the court order.
"Let's be friends." - So if something happens to me, you can do what you always did. Rescue me. 

I don't say this to dump to you. Just letting you know, the end result is likely this. You are doing great. She will likely be a thorn in your side for a while.


----------



## Dyokemm

I like Azteca's point and I don't think it gets enough consideration from BS's, especially those who are desperate to R 'for the kids'.

Everything a parent does will be seen by a child, and they will process it into who they will become as adults.

When they see a BS desperately trying to keep their M with a traitorous WS, one of two things will occur.

Either they will internalize the behavior, and will emulate the BS if they ever have a similar tragedy occur in their relationship/marriage.

Or they will reject the behavior they have seen, but along with this will come a shame and lack of respect for the BS for tolerating the cheating behavior of their spouse.

I agree with Azteca on this HTD, you are setting a great example for your sons.

This type of s**t is not to be tolerated or rugswept.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I do my best to shield them from this behavior. My oldest asked me where mom was last night. They notice when she is missing from family events and he asked where she was. He also said that he thinks I need to get laid because he thinks it would help take the edge off for me. I told him he may be right but I will be waiting until the divorce is final because until that time I am still technically married. He disagrees and really thinks I should be going out and getting some but also approves of how I am handling it.

When did this kid start thinking like an adult? He really seems to be handling this quite well.


----------



## LostViking

Your son is one cool cucumber. You raised him well. There is only one adult in your marriage, so he must have learned it from you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BK23

hard_to_detach said:


> I do my best to shield them from this behavior. My oldest asked me where mom was last night. They notice when she is missing from family events and he asked where she was. He also said that he thinks I need to get laid because he thinks it would help take the edge off for me. I told him he may be right but I will be waiting until the divorce is final because until that time I am still technically married. He disagrees and really thinks I should be going out and getting some but also approves of how I am handling it.
> 
> When did this kid start thinking like an adult? He really seems to be handling this quite well.


Your kid sounds great! I think you should take his advice.


----------



## Shaggy

I dont think you should lie to the kids for the sake of hiding her affair. Don't trash talk her, but don't tell lies that only benefit her.

Good job btw on going to the fire.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD
1) You are the man. I admire your fortitude in these grim times.
2) I like that you assume you will, after healing, get into another relationship at some point in the future. It shows your strength to realize the RIGHT woman can be an awesome addition to your life despite wife v1.0 having the fickleness bug.
3) Your friend is right about you needing to get some. Even your kid thinks so. But I do admire your fortitude on this. IE we will agree to disagree and since its YOUR road, LOL you outrank me. At least WA is 90 days and not 1.5 ++ years.
4) Whether or not you remain on good terms with your soon to be EX in laws is between YOU AND THEM. NOT HER!!!

Random question: If WA was one of those 1.5 years to D states... Think you could hold out on not getting laid for that long?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Shaggy said:


> Don't trash talk her, but don't tell lies that only benefit her.


It's hard, but at the end of the day it is better for you. My ex-fiance lied about me and all I said was, "No, I didn't cheat." Years later, all of the lies came out. My relationship with my daughter is fine, my ex's is not.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> Your son is one cool cucumber. You raised him well. There is only one adult in your marriage, so he must have learned it from you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't jump on me for this, but up until recently she was a really good parent. In some ways she still is and I have to share the credit with her. We worked well together and have done a great job raising both the boys. Moving forward however, I am definitely the positive force in their lives and I know my influence will help guide them to be great men who will be able to learn from me and my mistakes and have healthy relationships.

He is pretty cool.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> Random question: If WA was one of those 1.5 years to D states... Think you could hold out on not getting laid for that long?


Hell no! I can't imagine having to deal with this for that long and there is no way I could wait that long. I can't believe there are states that force couples to wait that long. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment.


----------



## weightlifter

Some are LONGER than that. Some conservatives are pushing for even HIGHER wait periods. 

I do agree with some lower limit. Say 3 to 6 months negotiation time included. Then again I think a marriage license should be 30 days not the typical 3.


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

I don't think anyone will jump on you for that admission/observation about your W as it is undoubtedly true.

It's tragic, but your foolish wife just sounds like she suddenly went of the rails into Crazyland (hear similar situations all too often here on TAM).

I think our society in general has just over romanticized commitment , marriage, and love in recent decades.

Many people now think if they don't have butterfly feelings every second of every day, the love must have never been real or they have 'fallen out of love'.

Its all bs from a mature perspective on life and human psychology.

Its like the social standards and expectations for this part of life are being set by a bunch of neurotic and angst ridden teenagers.

Your WW was just foolish/immature enough to fall for this crap.

She will regret it deeply one day, but by then her life and relationships with friends, family, and even her children will be strained at best, if not in a shambles.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> HTD,
> 
> I don't think anyone will jump on you for that admission/observation about your W as it is undoubtedly true.
> 
> It's tragic, but your foolish wife just sounds like she suddenly went of the rails into Crazyland (hear similar situations all too often here on TAM).
> 
> I think our society in general has just over romanticized commitment , marriage, and love in recent decades.
> 
> Many people now think if they don't have butterfly feelings every second of every day, the love must have never been real or they have 'fallen out of love'.
> 
> Its all bs from a mature perspective on life and human psychology.
> 
> Its like the social standards and expectations for this part of life are being set by a bunch of neurotic and angst ridden teenagers.
> 
> Your WW was just foolish/immature enough to fall for this crap.
> 
> She will regret it deeply one day, but by then her life and relationships with friends, family, and even her children will be strained at best, if not in a shambles.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## hard_to_detach

I am back from the cruise and had a great time. Sorry to say though, I had a backslide. The first day we spent apart but we knew we needed to get past that so that we could make it good for the boys, so the second day we spent together and ended up talking a bit and got to a point where we were able to get along. The third and fourth days went well and we all had a great time together. We posted some pics on FB and of course I made sure to tag her in them so that the POSOM would see and it worked. 

After talking to him on day 4 I could tell she was trying to distance herself from me and got pretty drunk that night. We had met some cool people and were hanging out with them and when we left them to head back to the cabins she started ripping into me about some things that have been going on. The next day I was distant and she asked why so I told her about the previous night and she didn't remember and apologized. I also told her that it was apparent by her actions after talking to him that she was being distant.

She ended up telling me that he did not like the fact that she and I were getting along and having a good time. She posted a pic of me and the boys and he didn't like that. This guy is a real piece of work. He knew about this trip all along and he has a problem with her having a good time? She was really upset and ended up crying most of the day. At one point we were standing on deck looking at the scenery and she put her arm around me and said "I'm sorry but I know I won't get a chance to do this again." and reached up and kissed me on the lips. We spent some time apart after that but ended up talking that evening about everything that has happened over the last couple months and she told me some details about their relationship. The blinders are coming off and she is realizing he isn't all that great. She even told me that I am way better in bed.

We both got pretty drunk that night and ended up going back to her cabin and one thing led to another. Sorry to say I did not stop her advances. She feels guilty, like she cheated on him, so I told her that she didn't do anything wrong because technically we are still married. She said "if that is the case, then that means that I am cheating on you with him", so she got slapped with that reality. We didn't let it affect the rest of the trip and had a good time, but we ended up being to cozy and familiar. There were a few times where she would reach out and hold my hand while walking. Obviously it felt good but I knew that it wasn't anything more than comfort and doesn't change anything. The divorce will happen and we will eventually go our separate ways. We got home and are sleeping in our separate bedrooms and life goes on.

He boyfriend doesn't want to talk to her for a while....and he doesn't even know what went on. Just based on a few pictures he is pissed off. Oh, and it doesn't help that he didn't get the job he was trying for, so he is in a rough spot and is pushing her away.

This trip was good and bad. Good in that it forced us to spend time together and work out some issues so that we can continue on this path and make it as good as we can for the boys. Bad in that it broke down my wall a little, just enough that she touched my emotions a bit and I am having to fight back to where I was before the trip.


----------



## BK23

You don't want to reconcile, correct?

Sounds like the bloom is off the rose as far as Plan A goes... Be prepared for her to come crawling back in the coming weeks/months.

It's up to you what you want to do, but I would personally start moving on, whether she comes around or not.


----------



## happyman64

HTD

Glad your trip with your family went well.

I am also glad you and your wife worked out a few more issues.

And just from what she told you her new relationship is doomed.

And you get to have the ringside seat.

I know you are still hurting but you are going to be fine. Very sad when you realize that your wife is continuing to make the same mistakes in life and her relationships.

Glad you got some. Now keep moving forward.

HM64


----------



## hard_to_detach

No, I do not want to reconcile. This divorce will go through and we will go our separate ways. This was just a setback for me on detaching. The knot in my stomach is back as I wrestle with the emotions of it all.

We were up front with everyone we met on the cruise and told them we were getting divorced. Everyone was surprised because they couldn't tell and thought we looked like a happy couple and all questioned why and didn't think we should. One guy in particular, quite a bit older and lots of life experience, has lived and traveled all over the world, said some things to her that I think really rocked her. He has been married several times, remarried one of his ex-wives then divorced her again. He basically told her she is making the biggest mistake of her life and her response was not like it has been with our friends and her family. She really listened to him and almost seemed to agree.

It was interesting to get the perspective of people who we don't know and have no vested interest in our relationship. I think it was a major wake up call for her. We have talked about everything these people said and both agree that it doesn't change anything and we both need to move on.


----------



## hard_to_detach

happyman64 said:


> HTD
> 
> Glad you got some. Now keep moving forward.
> 
> HM64


Wish I had got some from somebody else though. I did meet two hotties on the last day that live within a couple hours driving distance, so I may try to hook up with them.


----------



## turnera

hard_to_detach said:


> She said "if that is the case, then that means that I am cheating on you with him", so she got slapped with that reality.


Awesome!


----------



## tom67

hard_to_detach said:


> Wish I had got some from somebody else though. I did meet two hotties on the last day that live within a couple hours driving distance, so I may try to hook up with them.


Go for it.


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> Wish I had got some from somebody else though. I did meet two hotties on the last day that live within a couple hours driving distance, so I may try to hook up with them.


Now that is moving forward. :smthumbup:

And yes you know what you have to do......


----------



## tom67

I like the fact that he didn't get the job, couldn't happen to a better guy.


----------



## LostViking

Good for you. You have handled yourself well through this. 

I don't see what you did as backsliding. If anything you showed your WW very clearly what she is throwing away for a childish, petulant OM. 

You will move on and find another woman and remarry. I think your WW will eventually be tossed aside by the OM and she will be left alone, wondering what insanity led her to blow up her marriage. Even if she does move on and remarry, I don't foresee a happy future for her. I see a future filled with regret.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> Good for you. You have handled yourself well through this.
> 
> I don't see what you did as backsliding. If anything you showed your WW very clearly what she is throwing away for a childish, petulant OM.
> 
> You will move on and find another woman and remarry. I think your WW will eventually be tossed aside by the OM and she will be left alone, wondering what insanity led her to blow up her marriage. Even if she does move on and remarry, I don't foresee a happy future for her. I see a future filled with regret.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. I think I view it as a backslide because of the feelings it stirred up in me that I have been working on pushing away. You are right though, it did show her what she is throwing away.

Good description of him. Based on what she has told me about their relationship, he is controlling, jealous, and immature, and does not measure up to me in so many ways. She sees this too is realizing that this "feeling" she has been chasing isn't enough to sustain a relationship and what she had with me is rare. I think things will be over with him and her by the end of the month...if not the end of the week.

We didn't spend any time together yesterday and she ended up over at her brother's house. She didn't want to come home while I was up because she didn't want to see me. I think things may already be over with the POSUM and she is feeling vulnerable. I don't know, but we will continue on the course we are on and hopefully things will go smoothly. It will be easier once she gets a job and is making progress toward supporting herself. If she is not with him, I may not even have a problem with her living in my house as long as she is paying her way, including rent and utilities.

Time will tell.


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> I am back from the cruise and had a great time. Sorry to say though, I had a backslide. The first day we spent apart but we knew we needed to get past that so that we could make it good for the boys, so the second day we spent together and ended up talking a bit and got to a point where we were able to get along. The third and fourth days went well and we all had a great time together. We posted some pics on FB and of course I made sure to tag her in them so that the POSOM would see and it worked.
> 
> After talking to him on day 4 I could tell she was trying to distance herself from me and got pretty drunk that night. We had met some cool people and were hanging out with them and when we left them to head back to the cabins she started ripping into me about some things that have been going on. The next day I was distant and she asked why so I told her about the previous night and she didn't remember and apologized. I also told her that it was apparent by her actions after talking to him that she was being distant.
> 
> She ended up telling me that he did not like the fact that she and I were getting along and having a good time. She posted a pic of me and the boys and he didn't like that. This guy is a real piece of work. He knew about this trip all along and he has a problem with her having a good time? She was really upset and ended up crying most of the day. At one point we were standing on deck looking at the scenery and she put her arm around me and said "I'm sorry but I know I won't get a chance to do this again." and reached up and kissed me on the lips. We spent some time apart after that but ended up talking that evening about everything that has happened over the last couple months and she told me some details about their relationship. The blinders are coming off and she is realizing he isn't all that great. She even told me that I am way better in bed.
> 
> We both got pretty drunk that night and ended up going back to her cabin and one thing led to another. Sorry to say I did not stop her advances. She feels guilty, like she cheated on him, so I told her that she didn't do anything wrong because technically we are still married. She said "if that is the case, then that means that I am cheating on you with him", so she got slapped with that reality. We didn't let it affect the rest of the trip and had a good time, but we ended up being to cozy and familiar. There were a few times where she would reach out and hold my hand while walking. Obviously it felt good but I knew that it wasn't anything more than comfort and doesn't change anything. The divorce will happen and we will eventually go our separate ways. We got home and are sleeping in our separate bedrooms and life goes on.
> 
> He boyfriend doesn't want to talk to her for a while....and he doesn't even know what went on. Just based on a few pictures he is pissed off. Oh, and it doesn't help that he didn't get the job he was trying for, so he is in a rough spot and is pushing her away.
> 
> This trip was good and bad. Good in that it forced us to spend time together and work out some issues so that we can continue on this path and make it as good as we can for the boys. Bad in that it broke down my wall a little, just enough that she touched my emotions a bit and I am having to fight back to where I was before the trip.



I wonder if what you did is violation of "Man's law" 

Sounds scummy but I think you can maybe use this as a leverage?


----------



## Iver

You should call the OM and let him know "one thing led to another" with your wife while you were vacationing and you just want to make sure he's tested and disease free...

Never pass up an opportunity to stick the knife in.


----------



## Dyokemm

"She ended up telling me that he did not like the fact that she and I were getting along and having a good time. She posted a pic of me and the boys and he didn't like that. This guy is a real piece of work. He knew about this trip all along and he has a problem with her having a good time? She was really upset and ended up crying most of the day."

You should try to find a way to get a message to this whiny POS and tell him acting this way is a violation of 'Man Law'.

What a friggin scumbag. 

This piece of s**t just destroyed a family and childrens' lives and all he can think about is how his feelings are hurt.

How does filth like this even get a badge?


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> We didn't spend any time together yesterday and she ended up over at her brother's house. She didn't want to come home while I was up because she didn't want to see me. I think things may already be over with the POSUM and she is feeling *vulnerable. *


No. She's feeling foolish, cheap, used, stupid, confused, disgusted, sad, lonely, heartbroken and loathsome all at once. That's why she can't face you.


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> No. She's feeling foolish, cheap, used, stupid, confused, disgusted, sad, lonely, heartbroken and loathsome all at once. That's why she can't face you.


Sounds like reality is hitting her like a ton of bricks.


----------



## LostViking

Dyokemm said:


> "She ended up telling me that he did not like the fact that she and I were getting along and having a good time. She posted a pic of me and the boys and he didn't like that. This guy is a real piece of work. He knew about this trip all along and he has a problem with her having a good time? She was really upset and ended up crying most of the day."
> 
> You should try to find a way to get a message to this whiny POS and tell him acting this way is a violation of 'Man Law'.
> 
> What a friggin scumbag.
> 
> This piece of s**t just destroyed a family and childrens' lives and all he can think about is how his feelings are hurt.
> 
> How does filth like this even get a badge?


You might also want to throw in a thank you for him letting you bang her brains out all night. 

A little revengeful dig would not be out of line.


----------



## BK23

Don't you think the poor BS deserves to know? He has feelings too!


----------



## hard_to_detach

You guys are cracking me up. I agree, he IS violating man law by being a whiny POS. I had been wondering why he went from detective back to a beat cop and she told me he was put on probation last year. That is why he is not getting hired by any of the departments around here and probably won't be able to for another year. That means he won't be moving over here for a while and coupled with how he is acting and other undesireable traits she is noticing the shiny newness is wearing off and she knows it won't last.

He told her to have fun on this trip but I think he was really hoping she would be miserable and when he saw that she wasn't, it set him off. I'm not surprised, but it blows me away that he would give her a hard time for trying to enjoy her vacation. He really is a grade A POS.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

It really is too bad you did not take some bedroom 'pics' and send them his way...


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> You guys are cracking me up. I agree, he IS violating man law by being a whiny POS.


I was not joking or trying to make you laugh. 

Seriously, you should find some way to get a message to him that you had her on her back, ankles back to her ears, laying it into her...and you had her moaning like a Tiajuana hooker.


----------



## aug

hard_to_detach said:


> Good description of him. *Based on what she has told me about their relationship, he is controlling, jealous, and immature, and does not measure up to me in so many ways.* She sees this too is realizing that this "feeling" she has been chasing isn't enough to sustain a relationship and what she had with me is rare. I think things will be over with him and her by the end of the month...if not the end of the week.


Frankly, this may be also what she's telling him about you.

Do you think she's capable of telling her lover that you're a great guy, better in bed, supported her, etc? If so, why did she leave you for him - he may be wondering that?

More likely, she dished you too.


----------



## LostViking

aug said:


> Frankly, this may be also what she's telling him about you.
> 
> Do you think she's capable of telling her lover that you're a great guy, better in bed, supported her, etc? If so, why did she leave you for him - he may be wondering that?
> 
> More likely, she dished you too.


That is a damn good point! :iagree:


----------



## aug

hard_to_detach said:


> He told her to have fun on this trip but I think he was really hoping she would be miserable and when he saw that she wasn't, it set him off. I'm not surprised, but it blows me away that he would give her a hard time for trying to enjoy her vacation. He really is a grade A POS.


Probably from his viewpoint, your wife had already committed to him. In your wife's mind, also. This would explain her comment about her cheating on him or on you.

So, understandably, I can see why he was upset. (Not saying he's not an idiot for going after a married woman with kids.) He's still scum.


----------



## LostViking

There is a deep, dark part of her that is getting her ego fed by having two men fight over her.


----------



## Dyokemm

Aug,

I've very sure that's true. She almost assuredly ran down HTD to the POS when she was 'connecting' to him and starting all this crap.

But it sure says something that Loverboy is now so unattractive after only a couple months AND without even living together 24/7 with all the stresses and details of day to day living.

I've said all along that HTD's WW was going to seriously regret her stupidity and immaturity after the teenage fantasy wore off.

Funny thing is the 'dream' and 'butterflies' didn't even last long enough to get her out the door.


----------



## bfree

Ok, here comes the obligatory what if...


What if she comes to you and says that she realized on the trip what she would be losing. What if she says she appreciates you and loves you. What if she says her fog has lifted and she will do anything to save her marriage and keep you as her husband. What if she gives you the hysterical tears and snot bubbles?


----------



## bfree

Dyokemm said:


> Aug,
> 
> I've very sure that's true. She almost assuredly ran down HTD to the POS when she was 'connecting' to him and starting all this crap.
> 
> But it sure says something that Loverboy is now so unattractive after only a couple months AND without even living together 24/7 with all the stresses and details of day to day living.
> 
> I've said all along that HTD's WW was going to seriously regret her stupidity and immaturity after the teenage fantasy wore off.
> 
> Funny thing is the 'dream' and 'butterflies' didn't even last long enough to get her out the door.


The fantasy always ends. Its just a matter of time.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> I was not joking or trying to make you laugh.
> 
> Seriously, you should find some way to get a message to him that you had her on her back, ankles back to her ears, laying it into her...and you had her moaning like a Tiajuana hooker.


Were you watching? That is exactly how it went for part of it.

I didn't want any details about her and him but I got the impression that she barely got one O while with him when she is used to having a minimum of two with me but usually three to five big O's.

Believe me, I have been thinking about using this to my advantage. For me, just the fact that it happened and he was all pissed off over some pics on FB is enough.

Ok....I held out on you guys....it happened the next night too. She tried to say she knew I needed it but she also acted like she hadn't gotten any in months either. I think she wanted to have a reminder of what she was leaving behind and is realizing how good it really was.

The older gentleman that we talked to told her, "if you find someone who rocks your world in bed and is someone you can live with and love you should hold on to them", she said that I do rock her world more than she realized and he told her, "then you are an idiot if you are throwing him away for this 'feeling' you think you need". She has been pondering that discussion ever since and it was an hour after talking to him that we ended up going to town.


----------



## hard_to_detach

aug said:


> Probably from his viewpoint, your wife had already committed to him. In your wife's mind, also. This would explain her comment about her cheating on him or on you.
> 
> So, understandably, I can see why he was upset. (Not saying he's not an idiot for going after a married woman with kids.) He's still scum.


This is dead on. She had already committed to him and he to her, so yes, she views it as cheating on him.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Dyokemm said:


> Aug,
> 
> I've very sure that's true. She almost assuredly ran down HTD to the POS when she was 'connecting' to him and starting all this crap.
> 
> But it sure says something that Loverboy is now so unattractive after only a couple months AND without even living together 24/7 with all the stresses and details of day to day living.
> 
> I've said all along that HTD's WW was going to seriously regret her stupidity and immaturity after the teenage fantasy wore off.
> 
> Funny thing is the 'dream' and 'butterflies' didn't even last long enough to get her out the door.


I know she ran down all the negative things about me and maybe she has told me this stuff to keep me on the hook, but I really don't think so. Alcohol removes inhibitions and generally makes people brutally honest. I could really see the conflict in her to try to hold on to what she thinks she has but all of the questions and negative things came out. Despite that, she talked about how even if it doesn't work out with him, she still needs to look for whatever it is she thinks she is looking for.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> This is dead on. She had already committed to him and he to her, so yes, she views it as cheating on him.


Isn't the mindset of a cheater completely demented, backwards and insane? It is almost humorous.


----------



## tom67

Her limbic brain must be "confusing" her. I can just imagine if she finds out about you hooking up with one/both of those ladies from the cruise she will be banging down your door then banging you. It happens.


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> Isn't the mindset of a cheater completely demented, backwards and insane? It is almost humorous.


Humorous until she is alone in her apartment an old woman with 6 cats.


----------



## hard_to_detach

bfree said:


> Ok, here comes the obligatory what if...
> 
> 
> What if she comes to you and says that she realized on the trip what she would be losing. What if she says she appreciates you and loves you. What if she says her fog has lifted and she will do anything to save her marriage and keep you as her husband. What if she gives you the hysterical tears and snot bubbles?


Believe me, this has been running through my head. At the start of this I couldn't decide, then I got to the point where I wouldn't take her back, so to have this question in my head now sucks. I know for me, I will continue with the divorce.

I need to go out in the world and experience life on my own and that includes new women and relationships and she needs to do the same. I don't believe in saying 'never', because you never know what will happen, so I won't say I will never get back with her, but it would take some major changes on her part and depend on where I end up.

I told her in front of the friends we made on the cruise that she needs to go to therapy to work out her issues and of course she was resistant but they backed me up and told her it was best. I told her two nights ago that we have more to discuss and that I need to talk to her about her demons. She said she was not in a place emotionally to deal with that and I agreed. I told her we will send the boys to grandma's for the weekend sometime soon and do it. These are things I held back from talking to her about because I needed to 'keep the peace' but all it did was help her avoid them.

It feels kind of weird talking to her about some of the things we have discussed over the past week, but there is something therapeutic about it all. Maybe it is only that way for me, but that is all I really care about at this point.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> *Were you watching? That is exactly how it went for part of it.*
> 
> I didn't want any details about her and him but I got the impression that she barely got one O while with him when she is used to having a minimum of two with me but usually three to five big O's.
> 
> Believe me, I have been thinking about using this to my advantage. For me, just the fact that it happened and he was all pissed off over some pics on FB is enough.
> 
> Ok....I held out on you guys....it happened the next night too. She tried to say she knew I needed it but she also acted like she hadn't gotten any in months either. I think she wanted to have a reminder of what she was leaving behind and is realizing how good it really was.


I have a perverted imagination, but I also have experience with this type of post-breakup sex. After my second wife and I broke up, she slept with a few guys and I slept with a few women. 

One night around last December, she came over to my apartment to return some things she had accidentally taken when she moved out a few months before. I offered her a glass of wine and we started chatting, then the wine started flowing and pretty soon we were tearing each others clothes off and ended up having the hottest sex we had ever had in our relationship. 

She left the next morning and we never slept with each other again. But she opened up and told me that the reason she felt so free to let loose sexually with me was that she trusted me and was familiar with me and she knew I would not treat her like a cheap ONS (the way some of the gys she had slept with had). 

I think your WW feels much more comfortable having sex with you than she does with the OM. Even if she does end up settling in with him, she will never feel as fulfiled sexually with him as she does with you. His allure is that he was new, and naughty and he fed her ego and emotional needs. 

Your wife is a cheater, that is why she is cheating on you. Not because the OM is "better" than you. There is a hole in the middle of her that cannot be filled by one man's love and attention. 

Your wife needs help, lots of professional help.


----------



## aug

hard_to_detach said:


> A little background...we have been together 15 years, married 14, and have two boys 15 and 11. We got married very young and have struggled financially and had some bumps in our relationship but nothing every relationship goes through from time to time. *She had a Facebook relationship about 4 years ago that included sex/dirty talk. We struggled throught that and came close to divorce over a two year period.* For the last two years we were able to be more open with each other and she has admitted that she had never been "in love" with me but she does love me very much. We are best friends and have been a beacon to our friends of a good relationship and doing what it takes to make it work.
> *
> I have known that she felt like something was missing and have always done everything I can to be there for her.* She started college in January and is working toward her dream career. She will be done a couple years before our youngest graduates. Since we had kids so young we have been talking about how nice it will be that she will have a good career too and we will be able to move wherever we want and begin our life together. She has really seemed content in her life.





hard_to_detach said:


> I know she ran down all the negative things about me and maybe she has told me this stuff to keep me on the hook, but I really don't think so. Alcohol removes inhibitions and generally makes people brutally honest. I could really see the conflict in her to try to hold on to what she thinks she has but all of the questions and negative things came out. *Despite that, she talked about how even if it doesn't work out with him, she still needs to look for whatever it is she thinks she is looking for.*



She had 2 affairs you know of, an EA and this PA.

She doesn't know what she wants.

Looks like she'll keep looking. Even if you reconcile again, the probability that she'll cheat again would be high since she thinks she's missing something (probably so).

I assume she's in her late 30's. If so, I would think she feels she has lots of time to explore her options.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> I have a perverted imagination, but I also have experience with this type of post-breakup sex.


This was pretty standard stuff for us but she did comment on how when we have been 'separated' or divorcing the sex is just a little bit hotter.


----------



## LostViking

aug said:


> She had 2 affairs you know of, an EA and this PA.
> 
> She doesn't know what she wants.
> 
> Dead on.
> 
> Looks like she'll keep looking. Even if you reconcile again, the probability that she'll cheat again would be high since she thinks she's missing something (probably so).
> 
> One man cannot fill her need unquenchable need for validation.
> 
> I assume she's in her late 30's. If so, I would think *she feels she has lots of time to explore her options.*
> 
> And what she does not realise is that the window for her marketability as a wife and lover is diminishing by the year. By the time she hits her late 40s she will have a harer and harder time attracting men, while the OP will be in his prime attractiveness to younger females.


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> You guys are cracking me up. I agree, he IS violating man law by being a whiny POS. I had been wondering why he went from detective back to a beat cop and she told me he was put on probation last year. That is why he is not getting hired by any of the departments around here and probably won't be able to for another year. That means he won't be moving over here for a while and coupled with how he is acting and other undesireable traits she is noticing the shiny newness is wearing off and she knows it won't last.
> 
> He told her to have fun on this trip but I think he was really hoping she would be miserable and when he saw that she wasn't, it set him off. I'm not surprised, but it blows me away that he would give her a hard time for trying to enjoy her vacation. He really is a grade A POS.


Don't start white knighting your WS now. She even cheated on her new bf now.


----------



## tom67

warlock07 said:


> Don't start white knighting your WS now. She even cheated on her new bf now.


Ha good point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

aug said:


> She had 2 affairs you know of, an EA and this PA.
> 
> She doesn't know what she wants.
> 
> Looks like she'll keep looking. Even if you reconcile again, the probability that she'll cheat again would be high since she thinks she's missing something (probably so).
> 
> I assume she's in her late 30's. If so, I would think she feels she has lots of time to explore her options.


She turned 35 this year. She doesn't know what she wants but she is starting to realize what she had and how important it really is to her. I can see her going out and bouncing from guy to guy and fulfilling her sexual desires and curiosities and realizing what she had with me is what she really wanted all along. At that point I don't know if her pride would allow her to try to come back to me.

I'm not trying to be arogant, but I don't think she will find someone who will be able to fulfill her in all the ways I have. She may come across a guy who gives her that 'feeling' she wants, but he will be lacking in other areas that she sees as important. The older gentleman on our trip told her that I will be the bar that she compares every future relationship to and none of them will measure up, and those men will hate me for it and resent her for comparing us. He told me that she will think every woman I am with is a sl*t and not good enough for me.


----------



## hard_to_detach

One of the people we made friends with is a 51 year old divorced woman. She expressed how hard it is at her age to get into a quality relationship. My stbx still looks very young and is very attractive and appealing to a lot of men, but her standards for a relationship are pretty high and she'll have a hard time finding someone to put up with her baggage. She says now that she won't settle but eventually I think she will so she doesn't end up alone like her grandma and mom.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> This was pretty standard stuff for us but she did comment on how when we have been 'separated' or divorcing the sex is just a little bit hotter.


Hold up! She just gave you a glimpse into her madness. 

The way I read this is thus: what she is saying is that she gets off on sneaky, illicit, cheating sex... whether she is cheating on you with the OM or on the OM with you. 

Wow. Just wow.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> The older gentleman on our trip told her that I will be the bar that she compares every future relationship to and none of them will measure up, and those men will hate me for it and resent her for comparing us. He told me that *she will think every woman I am with is a sl*t and not good enough for me*.



Yes, and you wil be enjoying every slvtty one of them. :lol:


----------



## warlock07

It took her two weeks to meet the love of her life. Then, it took her a vacation to cheat on her new bf. Don't take her back just to spite the OM or when she is a bit attention starved.



> She tried to say she knew I needed it


Her views on fidelity, quite clear


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> ...*so she doesn't end up alone like her grandma and mom*.


Why did her mom and grandma end up alone?


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> Hold up! She just gave you a glimpse into her madness.
> 
> The way I read this is thus: what she is saying is that she gets off on sneaky, illicit, cheating sex... whether she is cheating on you with the OM or on the OM with you.
> 
> Wow. Just wow.


Yep. The previous times we 'separated' and were 'getting divorce', there was no OM, we just weren't being intimate for a while and it was going to end. At that point, she was more into it because it seemed forbidden, like when we first got together and due to the religion we weren't supposed to have sex but we did. She knows this about herself and can't figure out why. Part of her baggage that she needs to go to therapy for.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> Why did her mom and grandma end up alone?


Her grandma was married 8 or 9 times and none of the men could live up to her expectations of what she wanted. She was a bitter old woman and had a lot of issues that she never dealt with and ended up dying alone.

Her mom has been married three times and has had many multitudes of boyfriends between marriages. She is the same, her first marriage to my stbx's dad ended because she needed something new. The second was because he was an alcoholic and she thought she deserved better. The third and current...but not for long...has some issues which are valid for her to not like but she is also overly demanding on what she expects and isn't willing to change but expects him to.

It is a vicious cycle that continues with my stbx and until she takes the steps to stop it by going to therapy and dealing with her issues she is doomed to follow their footsteps. As of right now though, she does not think what she is doing is like them, so she continues to spiral our of control.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> Yep. The previous times we 'separated' and were 'getting divorce', there was no OM, we just weren't being intimate for a while and it was going to end. At that point, she was more into it because it seemed forbidden, like when we first got together and due to the religion we weren't supposed to have sex but we did. She knows this about herself and can't figure out why. Part of her baggage that she needs to go to therapy for.


Its a type of pseudo-cuckolding fetish IMO. I'm not calling you a ****, because you are not, but in her fvcked up mind the danger element of cheating and secretly humiliating you and the OM, one with another, is what is fueling her. She likes being a slvt.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I could really see the conflict in her to try to hold on to what she thinks she has but all of the questions and negative things came out. Despite that, she talked about how even if it doesn't work out with him, she still needs to look for whatever it is she thinks she is looking for."

This is still all fog talk HTD. 

Yes she will move on anyway (and so should you, maybe even more so), but I was referring to the speed with which POS went from being her 'soulmate' in your early posts that she just realized she had to be with, to someone who she now occasionally refers to with negative views and feelings.

Sure doesn't sound like 'soulmates' to me. 

She's still in a life 'fog' though, that will lead her down the path you described in one of your recent posts. 

She will wake up one day and seriously regret it. The older gent you met was right and sounds like one wise dude.


----------



## LostViking

LostViking said:


> I was not joking or trying to make you laugh.
> 
> Seriously, you should find some way to get a message to him that you had her on her back, ankles back to her ears, laying it into her...and you had her moaning like a Tiajuana hooker.


...and you were slamming her into the cabin wall, freaking out the old couple next door, going all John Holmes on her....

...and that poor maid had to come in the next morning and pick up all those nasty, wet sheets....

Oh man, let me writ the e-mail to the OM for you!!! Please please?


----------



## LongWalk

hard_to_detach said:


> She turned 35 this year. She doesn't know what she wants but she is starting to realize what she had and how important it really is to her. I can see her going out and bouncing from guy to guy and fulfilling her sexual desires and curiosities and realizing what she had with me is what she really wanted all along. At that point I don't know if her pride would allow her to try to come back to me.
> 
> I'm not trying to be arogant, but I don't think she will find someone who will be able to fulfill her in all the ways I have. She may come across a guy who gives her that 'feeling' she wants, but he will be lacking in other areas that she sees as important. The older gentleman on our trip told her that I will be the bar that she compares every future relationship to and none of them will measure up, and those men will hate me for it and resent her for comparing us. He told me that she will think every woman I am with is a sl*t and not good enough for me.


You have a healthy philosophical way of looking at things. Probably you stbx finds this attractive. You haven't been begging. She went after you like the last piece of chocolate cake in the fridge that someone was going to get.

She sounds as if she is conscious that she is on her way to making a fateful choice. The question of what will become of her is an open one, but it is easy for a woman in her situation to not have the ability to get a good guy to commit. And/or she may find guys who are good in someways, but the fact that they would like to marry her, will make her doubt them.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD suggestion counter to many here.

DONT shake up the relationship with Barney Fife. Use what is left of the fog to get thru Nov 15! Yes I know it would be fun to bomb her world but this is FOR YOU, NOT HER!

THEN get a few other women in your life. See what it is like to have a woman who appreciates you.

IF necessary AFTER that if you think she still stacks up consider starting a BRAND NEW relationship with her.

FWIW
WL


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

And I think Tom67 is correct when he says she will freak out when you start seeing another woman.

Get ready for more craziness.


----------



## LostViking

I was wondering, were some of the women among the group that you and your wife were hanging out with checking you out? 

You being a younger guy about to be cut loose from marriage...I bet some of those older women were looking at you like a Hershey bar with legs. Your WW could have caught on to it and that sparked her competitive streak.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Dyokemm said:


> This is still all fog talk HTD.
> 
> Yes she will move on anyway (and so should you, maybe even more so), but I was referring to the speed with which POS went from being her 'soulmate' in your early posts that she just realized she had to be with, to someone who she now occasionally refers to with negative views and feelings.
> 
> Sure doesn't sound like 'soulmates' to me.
> 
> She's still in a life 'fog' though, that will lead her down the path you described in one of your recent posts.
> 
> She will wake up one day and seriously regret it. The older gent you met was right and sounds like one wise dude.


The older gent was definitely one wise dude. There were 5 of us sitting there in a semi-circle hanging on his every word and talked about him for the rest of the trip. We never even saw him again.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> HTD suggestion counter to many here.
> 
> DONT shake up the relationship with Barney Fife. Use what is left of the fog to get thru Nov 15! Yes I know it would be fun to bomb her world but this is FOR YOU, NOT HER!
> 
> THEN get a few other women in your life. See what it is like to have a woman who appreciates you.
> 
> IF necessary AFTER that if you think she still stacks up consider starting a BRAND NEW relationship with her.
> 
> FWIW
> WL


I agree. I don't need or want to shake up the relationship, it will run its course on its own, and you're right it can only hurt me.

That is my plan. Get some experience with other women and relationships and see what is out there. If I find someone new that meets my needs then great. IF I were to CONSIDER getting back with her....it would be a BRAND NEW relationship and dependent on her meeting my new expectations which would require a lot of work on her part from where she is now and even then it would take a lot to convince me it could work.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> I was wondering, were some of the women among the group that you and your wife were hanging out with checking you out?
> 
> You being a younger guy about to be cut loose from marriage...I bet some of those older women were looking at you like a Hershey bar with legs. Your WW could have caught on to it and that sparked her competitive streak.


Yes they were and while she acted ok with it I did notice that she tended to try and sit closer and casually touch me more. At one point though she was telling them how amazing I was in bed and that whoever I am with will be very lucky...like she was trying to talk me up, but this came after we had already hooked up. I agree that once I get out there and start experiencing other women she is going to start getting more crazy and trying to keep her hooks in me.


----------



## happyman64

> Despite that, she talked about how even if it doesn't work out with him, she still needs to look for whatever it is she thinks she is looking for.


How sad is it HTD that what she seeks is right in front of her.

But sadly, a woman like this will never find it. You can rock her world all you want, you can be there for her till the day you die and it will mean anything to her. 

Because she is looking for the Holy Grail. 

And it does not exist.

Your wife is like my brother, never happy, never satisfied and never will be. And he has it all.

And as much as you love your wife, she will never care for you, respect you or love you as much as you love her.

That is no way to live.

HM64


----------



## tom67

hard_to_detach said:


> Yes they were and while she acted ok with it I did notice that she tended to try and sit closer and casually touch me more. At one point though she was telling them how amazing I was in bed and that whoever I am with will be very lucky...like she was trying to talk me up, but this came after we had already hooked up. I agree that once I get out there and start experiencing other women she is going to start getting more crazy and trying to keep her hooks in me.


Make sure by "accident" your son who wants you to get some knows you will be with them one weekend and that "somehow" it gets back to her.Tell him you are taking both of them out.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LongWalk said:


> You have a healthy philosophical way of looking at things. Probably you stbx finds this attractive. You haven't been begging. She went after you like the last piece of chocolate cake in the fridge that someone was going to get.
> 
> She sounds as if she is conscious that she is on her way to making a fateful choice. The question of what will become of her is an open one, but it is easy for a woman in her situation to not have the ability to get a good guy to commit. And/or she may find guys who are good in someways, but the fact that they would like to marry her, will make her doubt them.


Thank you...I received a lot of comliments like that on this trip, which reinforces that I am dealing with this in a healthy way. You're right, that and many other things she finds attractive, just not this feeling of being 'in love' that she thinks she needs. 

The guys are flooding out of the woodwork to talk to her, all these guys that have been waiting in the wings for her to be free. Despite knowing that they only want one thing, she feels the need to explore, which I think she should. I will do the same but the difference with me is that I know what I want and will accept. Sure I will have my share of ONS but when I am ready for a relationship I will know what I need and I will find it. By that time she will probably still be searching for this elusive feeling and not understand why she can't be happy.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> I agree. I don't need or want to shake up the relationship, it will run its course on its own, and you're right it can only hurt me.
> 
> That is my plan. Get some experience with other women and relationships and see what is out there. If I find someone new that meets my needs then great. IF I were to CONSIDER getting back with her....it would be a BRAND NEW relationship and dependent on her meeting my new expectations which would require a lot of work on her part from where she is now and even then it would take a lot to convince me it could work.


As fun as it would be you guys are probably right. Wait until the D is final before fvcking with the OM.


----------



## Dyokemm

"The guys are flooding out of the woodwork to talk to her, all these guys that have been waiting in the wings for her to be free."

It's sad to see how many people are actually scumbags putting on a false front.

She isn't even officially divorced, and already the vultures are out.

I'll bet a large percentage of these s**tbags are married themselves too.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hard_to_detach said:


> He boyfriend doesn't want to talk to her for a while....and he doesn't even know what went on. Just based on a few pictures he is pissed off. Oh, and it doesn't help that he didn't get the job he was trying for, so he is in a rough spot and is pushing her away.


It's a cruise, with the guy who thought he knew her better than anyone, with alcohol, late nights and time alone. He is 100% in the wrong for his actions, but if you put your rational hat on and the roles were reversed you'd be angry as well.

Sorry, not trying to be a jerk or excuse the reality bus that hit him, but even a cheater can be right.

Oh and it is an interesting look into your wife. You should take this as it may be her true nature. She can't handle conflict so, she deals with problems by being promiscuous. This guy was her soul mate, but the minute he became upset, she bad mouthed him and "cheated."

I'd say that sounds awfully familiar right?



hard_to_detach said:


> I told her that I can't keep doing this and that if she needs to "explore" her feelings for him then we are done. Either she wants to be with me or she doesn't. She said she didn't think she could feel like this about anyone and had resigned herself to the fact that she wouldn't and was ok with that. She was prepared to spend the rest of her life with me and the life we had built, but she can't ignore this. I told her that if that is her stance then we are done and she needs to move out.


Hmmm, methinks this woman doth despise boundaries.


----------



## happyman64

HTD

You should throw her out.

But you should also call the other guy and let him know he needs to do a better job of satisfying your wife because she needed it two nights in a row from you.

Let him know she said he will never compare to you in bed and that you guys did not use condoms on the cruise.

Then wish him well and thank him for taking her off your hands.

That is how you detach.

HM


----------



## weightlifter

>You being a younger guy about to be cut loose from marriage...I bet some of those older women were looking at you like a Hershey bar with legs. Your WW could have caught on to it and that sparked her competitive streak.<

LOL Hershey Bar with legs.



hard_to_detach said:


> That is my plan. Get some experience with other women and relationships and see what is out there. If I find someone new that meets my needs then great. IF I were to CONSIDER getting back with her....it would be a BRAND NEW relationship and dependent on her meeting my new expectations which would require a lot of work on her part from where she is now and even then it would take a lot to convince me it could work.


Just effing wow dude. You get it.
/emote Kung Fu Tv show Kung Fu Master Voice.
You have done well young grasshopper. 

All those who think HTD will find Mrs HTD v2.0 in a few years and she will be speckfvckingtacular...

Raise your hands.
I know I raise mine.

Just remember the ring checks!

Oh and you still owe us a few "I just got some and feel like a billion dollars" posts.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> HTD
> 
> You should throw her out.
> 
> But you should also call the other guy and let him know he needs to do a better job of satisfying your wife because she needed it two nights in a row from you.
> 
> Let him know she said he will never compare to you in bed and that you guys did not use condoms on the cruise.
> 
> Then wish him well and thank him for taking her off your hands.
> 
> That is how you detach.
> 
> HM


I think you have a wedding coming up this month right HTD? Bring a knockout. It's her family that's going to be there and you are standing up, oh I have evil thoughts.:FIREdevil::FIREdevil:


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> I told her in front of the friends we made on the cruise that *she needs to go to therapy* to work out her issues and of course she was resistant but they backed me up and told her it was best. I told her two nights ago that we have more to discuss and that* I need to talk to her about her demons. ** She said she was not in a place emotionally to deal with that and I agreed.* I told her we will send the boys to grandma's for the weekend sometime soon and do it. These are things I held back from talking to her about because I needed to 'keep the peace' but all it did was help her avoid them..



Anyone notice weird about this ?


----------



## hard_to_detach

hard_to_detach said:


> We didn't spend any time together yesterday and she ended up over at her brother's house. She didn't want to come home while I was up because she didn't want to see me. I think things may already be over with the POSUM and she is feeling vulnerable.


I was right. Monday night he called her and broke it off. He is saying it won't work because of the distance and it looks like he won't be getting hired over here for at least a year. A week shy of 90 days since they first met up and a few days shy of when he first contacted her.

She is obviously devastated and is going to talk to him today to tell him he can at least meet her to tell her to her face. Part of me knew it would be over quickly but I thought it would last longer than this.

So last night she tells me about how this single guy we have hung out with over the past few years invited her to a football game in October and that another single guy we know invited her for an overnight camping or rafting trip. These are some of the scumbags I have gotten the vibe from that they were just hoping they would have a shot at her. These invitations come 2 days after she posted on FB about our trip and put it out there publicly that we were getting divorced. Then this morning she is contacted by another guy and I just keep telling her that they are going to be flooding out of the wordwook and all want one thing. She keeps giving me this look like I am joking and saying "no, that's not the case" but last night and today she has started to change her tune. I told her, now that it is out there she is going to be hit up by every single guy she knows wanting to do something with her.

On a good note, one of the women from the cruise keeps contacting me. She is 51, so a little older than I'd prefer, but she has a rocking body and looks 40 so I will definitely get some if I can.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD. You can only warn her. You can not convince her.

If she is as pretty as you say she is... I feel for her in a way. She is about to get what you got and I don't wish that on anyone.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> On a good note, one of the women from the cruise keeps contacting me. She is 51, so a little older than I'd prefer, but she has a rocking body and looks 40 so I will definitely get some if I can.


What did I tell you? You are Mr. Goodbar. Just make sure she isn't married. You dont want to be an OM. But if you have a chance to get some from an experienced older woman, then go to it friend.

Your WW is so laughably pathetic. Even when you were telling her about these guys just wanting to use her for sex, deep down she was gratified and excited as hell. What did I tell you about her needing validation? Your wife needs ego boosting 24 hours a day. If she does not have multiple men fighting for her, then she doesn't feel secure. How pathetic. D her, walk away and never look back.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> What did I tell you? You are Mr. Goodbar. Just make sure she isn't married. You dont want to be an OM. But if you have a chance to get some from an experienced older woman, then go to it friend.
> 
> Your WW is so laughably pathetic. Even when you were telling her about these guys just wanting to use her for sex, deep down she was gratified and excited as hell. What did I tell you about her needing validation? Your wife needs ego boosting 24 hours a day. If she does not have multiple men fighting for her, then she doesn't feel secure. How pathetic. D her, walk away and never look back.


I told the the 51yo about the 19yo my friend tried to hook me up with and she said I don't want that, that I will be happier getting sex from a woman with experience. She is NOT married and you better believe that will be the first thing I check before I pursue a woman.

You are right, I have known for years that she craved this gratification and validation from other people, not just men. I am divorcing her for sure and moving on, but I'll use her for sex until I don't need her anymore....speaking of. She woke up dehydrated this morning from what we did last night. At least doing that will keep me in practice so I can give a good performance for the women to come. It was actually fun, when we finished I cleaned up and walked down the hall to my bedroom to sleep in my own bed.


----------



## warlock07

> So last night she tells me about how this single guy we have hung out with over the past few years invited her to a football game in October and that another single guy we know invited her for an overnight camping or rafting trip. These are some of the scumbags I have gotten the vibe from that they were just hoping they would have a shot at her. These invitations come 2 days after she posted on FB about our trip and put it out there publicly that we were getting divorced. Then this morning she is contacted by another guy and I just keep telling her that they are going to be flooding out of the wordwook and all want one thing. She keeps giving me this look like I am joking and saying "no, that's not the case" but last night and today she has started to change her tune. I told her, now that it is out there she is going to be hit up by every single guy she knows wanting to do something with her.


She is not a not that naive. Her having random flings is not her being used. Your wife is not a kid. Maybe she is interested in having sex and ONS with other people too.


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> I told the the 51yo about the 19yo my friend tried to hook me up with and she said I don't want that, that I will be happier getting sex from a woman with experience. She is NOT married and you better believe that will be the first thing I check before I pursue a woman.
> 
> You are right, I have known for years that she craved this gratification and validation from other people, not just men. I am divorcing her for sure and moving on, but I'll use her for sex until I don't need her anymore....speaking of. She woke up dehydrated this morning from what we did last night. At least doing that will keep me in practice so I can give a good performance for the women to come. It was actually fun, when we finished I cleaned up and walked down the hall to my bedroom to sleep in my own bed.


Wait, you are continuing to have sex with her ?


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> HTD. You can only warn her. You can not convince her.
> 
> If she is as pretty as you say she is... I feel for her in a way. She is about to get what you got and I don't wish that on anyone.


Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to convince her, just warn her, like I did with her scumbag. She knows I was right about him and knows I am right about these guys and pretty much everything else I have told her about what she is doing but she is like a child and going to touch the stove to see if it is hot.

She may not be every man's type, but she is very pretty and amazing in the sack. Her body is 5'3", 100lbs with 32D breasts, athletic and flexible, and her face and hair a great too. So my standards will be high, but I know I can pull it and when I start pulling in tail that is hotter than her you better believe she is going to be super jealous cause they will be smoking hot!

I really am looking forward to this.


----------



## hard_to_detach

warlock07 said:


> Wait, you are continuing to have sex with her ?


No, I am not going to keep having sex with her. Just a couple last romps, in fact last night will most likely be the last. My head was kind of swimming yesterday but I am feeling much more clear today and focused on my future without her. Sorry, I am weak and won't pass it up as long as I am in control and it isn't affecting my emotional or mental state.


----------



## Lovemytruck

hard_to_detach said:


> So last night she tells me about how this single guy we have hung out with over the past few years invited her to a football game in October and that another single guy we know invited her for an overnight camping or rafting trip...
> 
> ...Then this morning she is contacted by another guy and I just keep telling her that they are going to be flooding out of the wordwook and all want one thing...
> 
> She keeps giving me this look like I am joking and saying "no, that's not the case" but last night and today she has started to change her tune. *I told her, now that it is out there she is going to be hit up by every single guy she knows wanting to do something with her.*
> 
> On a good note, one of the women from the cruise keeps contacting me. She is 51, so a little older than I'd prefer, but she has a rocking body and looks 40 so I will definitely get some if I can.


HTD,

Just curious about this stuff that you mention quoted above. I have not followed your thread for a week or two, but I looked at it today and had to scratch my head.

Is she sh!t testing you? Is she digging for your validation that she is hot for other guys? Not sure I get it. You mention that you are moving ahead with the D. Why are you in the "friend-zone" and giving her the "you go girl" speech?

It actually appears that you are glad to see her go. My hat is off to you for that. Maybe you are emotionally to the point where you are HAPPY to see her leave.

Tell me this is what is going on. I hope that you have moved into a new world where she is no longer your concern as far as being a wife.

Thanks for helping me catch back up. Thanks for showing us/others how to move forward when dealing with a WS.

Easy on those new girls!  Hope you are doing well.


----------



## hard_to_detach

warlock07 said:


> She is not a not that naive. Her having random flings is not her being used. Your wife is not a kid. Maybe she is interested in having sex and ONS with other people too.


I know she is not that naive. She definitely wants to have ONS and random sex. Her experience with "the love of her life" has been a lesson to her that all is not always as it seems.


----------



## bandit.45

hard_to_detach said:


> No, I am not going to keep having sex with her. Just a couple last romps, in fact last night will most likely be the last. My head was kind of swimming yesterday but I am feeling much more clear today and focused on my future without her. Sorry, I am weak and won't pass it up as long as I am in control and it isn't affecting my emotional or mental state.


As long as she knows there is no R possible, that you are moving on, and she is clear as to why you are moving on, then you are not using her or exploiting her. 

She's your wife. Part of the marriage agreement is that she gives you sex. Until the D decree is filed....hit it as much as you want and as long as she is offering. She must be loving it or she wouldn't keep throwing her legs up for you. Better you than some other dirtbag.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Lovemytruck said:


> HTD,
> 
> Just curious about this stuff that you mention quoted above. I have not followed your thread for a week or two, but I looked at it today and had to scratch my head.
> 
> Is she sh!t testing you? Is she digging for your validation that she is hot for other guys? Not sure I get it. You mention that you are moving ahead with the D. Why are you in the "friend-zone" and giving her the "you go girl" speech?
> 
> It actually appears that you are glad to see her go. My hat is off to you for that. Maybe you are emotionally to the point where you are HAPPY to see her leave.
> 
> Tell me this is what is going on. I hope that you have moved into a new world where she is no longer your concern as far as being a wife.
> 
> Thanks for helping me catch back up. Thanks for showing us/others how to move forward when dealing with a WS.
> 
> Easy on those new girls!  Hope you are doing well.


That isn't me giving her the you go girl speech. I know she is not naive, but sometimes she gives people more credit than they deserve. I am just pointing out that these guys, even though they are "friends", are really just sharks who want one thing. Yes, I am happy to see her leave and can't wait to get past all of this and be on my own. I'm sure that over the next couple months she will start in on the testing, to see if I am still an option.


----------



## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> Wait, you are continuing to have sex with her ?


Warlock that's the stupidest question I've ever heard you ask. 

Dude... she's his wife. It's his right and privelege to use her if she wants him to use her. She wouldn't keep doing it if she wasn't enjoying it too.

What's the big deal? He's made it clear they are breaking up and D is inevitable. He's not manipulating her or getting her hopes up. The playing field is even. Let him have his fun. She owes it to him.


----------



## hard_to_detach

bandit.45 said:


> As long as she knows there is no R possible, that you are moving on, and she is clear as to why you are moving on, then you are not using her or exploiting her.
> 
> She's your wife. Part of the marriage agreement is that she gives you sex. Until the D decree is filed....hit it as much as you want and as long as she is offering. She must be loving it or she wouldn't keep throwing her legs up for you. Better you than some other dirtbag.


She knows I am moving on and why. I tend to agree, until the court finalizes it, but I won't initiate or ask for it. If she wants it, I'll gladly take advantage.


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> No, I am not going to keep having sex with her. Just a couple last romps, in fact last night will most likely be the last. My head was kind of swimming yesterday but I am feeling much more clear today and focused on my future without her. Sorry, I am weak and won't pass it up as long as I am in control and it isn't affecting my emotional or mental state.


I am more surprised about this part...



> She is obviously devastated and is going to talk to him today to tell him he can at least meet her to tell her to her face. Part of me knew it would be over quickly but I thought it would last longer than this.


Who cares if you keep having sex with her as long you don't let it damage you emotionally or physically..


----------



## bandit.45

hard_to_detach said:


> She knows I am moving on and why. I tend to agree, until the court finalizes it, but I won't initiate or ask for it. If she wants it, I'll gladly take advantage.


While you are at it, you might as well ask her to try kinky sh!t the two of you never tried before. 

Its funny, now that the two of you have agreed to go forward with an amicable split, and that there are no more expectations between you compelling you to play your respective roles, you may be surprised that it frees the two of you up to have the hottest sex of your relationship.

And is it me or does she not seem that torn up about losing the OM? Maybe wistful and regretful, but a bereaved woman usually doesn't have sweaty matathon sex with another man when she is pining for the one she thinks she loves. Too funny.


----------



## happyman64

bandit.45 said:


> As long as she knows there is no R possible, that you are moving on, and she is clear as to why you are moving on, then you are not using her or exploiting her.
> 
> She's your wife. Part of the marriage agreement is that she gives you sex. Until the D decree is filed....hit it as much as you want and as long as she is offering. She must be loving it or she wouldn't keep throwing her legs up for you. Better you than some other dirtbag.


I honestly think she knows that Her husband rocks her world.

And that's she might not ever get that again.

Talk about a woman that is mental???

Your wife is lost!

And all the d!ck in the world is not going to fix her.

Really sad.

HM


----------



## warlock07

bandit.45 said:


> Warlock that's the stupidest question I've ever heard you ask.
> 
> Dude... she's his wife. It's his right and privelege to use her if she wants him to use her. She wouldn't keep doing it if she wasn't enjoying it too.
> 
> What's the big deal? He's made it clear they are breaking up and D is inevitable. He's not manipulating her or getting her hopes up. The playing field is even. Let him have his fun. She owes it to him.



Guess, I was misunderstood.  I was assuming she would hold back after returning from the vacation...out of guilt or something..This woman has absolutely no shame or dignity... The OM got his inevitable karma


----------



## warlock07

> I told her, now that it is out there she is going to be hit up by every single guy she knows wanting to do something with her.


But this sounds like you are being desperate to win her back..


----------



## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> *Who cares if you keep having sex with her as long you don't let it damage you emotionally or physically..[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Now that's my Warlock!


----------



## hard_to_detach

warlock07 said:


> I am more surprised about this part...
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares if you keep having sex with her as long you don't let it damage you emotionally or physically..


That is what I am thinking. As long as it doesn't start affecting my emotional state, I don't see anything wrong with it. I obviously don't want her to feel too comfortable or she may want to reverse things and I DO NOT want that battle. About 9 more weeks until this is final so I need to keep her moving in the right direction. I knew I could get some last night with very little effort so I did kind of initiate it, but it didn't take much. From now on I will leave it up to her.

Oh, and my plan of waiting till it is final is getting very hard to stick to.


----------



## hard_to_detach

bandit.45 said:


> While you are at it, you might as well ask her to try kinky sh!t the two of you never tried before.
> 
> Its funny, now that the two of you have agreed to go forward with an amicable split, and that there are no more expectations between you compelling you to play your respective roles, you may be surprised that it frees the two of you up to have the hottest sex of your relationship.
> 
> And is it me or does she not seem that torn up about losing the OM? Maybe wistful and regretful, but a bereaved woman usually doesn't have sweaty matathon sex with another man when she is pining for the one she thinks she loves. Too funny.


There isn't really anything we haven't tried before. Last night was about as kinky as you can get and we ended up using every towel in the closet to soak up the mess. We have always had super hot sex, but it has always been a little bit hotter when we were on the verge of splitting, so you may be right on that point.

It does surprise me. I know she is torn up but she is handling herself remarkably well considering what she thought she had.


----------



## bandit.45

hard_to_detach said:


> That is what I am thinking. As long as it doesn't start affecting my emotional state, I don't see anything wrong with it. I obviously don't want her to feel too comfortable or she may want to reverse things and I DO NOT want that battle. About 9 more weeks until this is final so I need to keep her moving in the right direction. I knew I could get some last night with very little effort so I did kind of initiate it, but it didn't take much. From now on I will leave it up to her.
> 
> Oh, and my plan of waiting till it is final is getting very hard to stick to.


The OM has shown her that she was nothing more than a piece of a$$ to him. That is what she is upset about. I think if you decide to sh!t on his world hard after the D, she won't hold it against you. 

Keep it light and casual with her. She enjoys getting laid by you, that much is clear. She'll be coming back for more. 

But the minute you find out she is putting out for those scumbag hangers-ons that have been crawling out of the woodwork, zip up your fly and keep it zipped.


----------



## hard_to_detach

warlock07 said:


> But this sounds like you are being desperate to win her back..


Nooooo, absolutely not. Just giving her a heads up on what to expect.


----------



## bandit.45

hard_to_detach said:


> There isn't really anything we haven't tried before. Last night was about as kinky as you can get and we ended up using every towel in the closet to soak up the mess. We have always had super hot sex, but it has always been a little bit hotter when we were on the verge of splitting, so you may be right on that point.
> 
> It does surprise me. I know she is torn up but she is handling herself remarkably well considering what she thought she had.


My take bro? She knew her relationship with the OM was doomed weeks ago.

This was an exit affair my friend. As hot as you are in bed, as good a man as you are, she simply cannot be satisfied with the attention of one person. She knows this, and she knows you know this.


----------



## Lovemytruck

...*she will start in on the testing, to see if I am still an option.*

Don't be an option! Yeah, I see the banter about sex for now. I get it, and I like sex too. Personally I was too repulsed by the end of my R to want sex with my exWW. Yuck! 

Don't get entangled with her as an option later. Most of us have a weak moment, but for hellsakes, don't go back on this one. Keep on moving forward! Enjoy.


----------



## tom67

Lovemytruck said:


> ...*she will start in on the testing, to see if I am still an option.*
> 
> Don't be an option! Yeah, I see the banter about sex for now. I get it, and I like sex too. Personally I was too repulsed by the end of my R to want sex with my exWW. Yuck!
> 
> Don't get entangled with her as an option later. Most of us have a weak moment, but for hellsakes, don't go back on this one. Keep on moving forward! Enjoy.


She is too messed up mentally but you know this stay focused. Is she on birth control I guess that would be an important question.


----------



## hard_to_detach

tom67 said:


> She is too messed up mentally but you know this stay focused. Is she on birth control I guess that would be an important question.


No worries there, I am clipped and she had a hysterectomy.


----------



## bandit.45

hard_to_detach said:


> No worries there, I am clipped and she had a hysterectomy.


Oh man. If she is willing, I'd be breaking the bed springs and denting the drywall with her.


----------



## hard_to_detach

bandit.45 said:


> Oh man. If she is willing, I'd be breaking the bed springs and denting the drywall with her.


Last night was epic. I'd go into detail but I'd probably get censored and kicked out of the forum.


----------



## tom67

hard_to_detach said:


> Last night was epic. I'd go into detail but I'd probably get censored and kicked out of the forum.


Were there handcuffs involved?


----------



## tom67

And yet she still wants to get divorced but having time time of her life:scratchhead::scratchhead:run forest run!


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Make sure to emphasize that she'll be used and then quickly and unceremoniously dropped. And that they will promise the moon to get what they want.

If she falls for that stupidity, she'll deserve all the misery it brings her.

Oh well, won't impact you any. Its her problem, like Weightlifter said, all you can do is warn her.


----------



## happyman64

> It does surprise me. I know she is torn up but she is handling herself remarkably well considering what she thought she had.


Don't be surprised too too much.

All her issues are contrived in her head. All the attention she needs is in her head.

You are just right on the money about her. It only took a few years.....


----------



## bandit.45

hard_to_detach said:


> Last night was epic. I'd go into detail but I'd probably get censored and kicked out of the forum.


They say breakup sex is the best sex.


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> And yet she still wants to get divorced but having time time of her life:scratchhead::scratchhead:run forest run!


Well if you think about it, from her perspective she thinks he's letting her off easy. Which he probably is, but at this point it is neither here nor there. 

She's living her college years all over again. She's not interested in marrying or settling down any time in the near future. She is a MILF and she likes being a MILF. 

I think a few years down the road, if OP has not remarried, and after she has tired of being a sperm receptacle for idiots, she will come around again to see if he wants to settle down and renew their relationship. Could I be wrong?


----------



## happyman64

bandit.45 said:


> Well if you think about it, from her perspective she thinks he's letting her off easy. Which he probably is, but at this point it is neither here nor there.
> 
> She's living her college years all over again. She's not interested in marrying or settling down any time in the near future. She is a MILF and she likes being a MILF.
> 
> I think a few years down the road, if OP has not remarried, and after she has tired of being a sperm receptacle for idiots, she will come around again to see if he wants to settle down and renew their relationship. Could I be wrong?


Your not wrong I just hope by then he traded up to a newer, younger more improved sperm receptacle.....

Your killing me Bandito!


----------



## Dyokemm

"I think a few years down the road, if OP has not remarried, and after she has tired of being a sperm receptacle for idiots, she will come around again to see if he wants to settle down and renew their relationship. Could I be wrong?"

I say screw that noise.

You could be right that it will happen.

I would not be surprised in the least since I believe she will seriously regret this after the teenage immaturity and longing for 'butterflies' has run its course.

But if I were HTD, I would abruptly and coldly cut that line of thought off immediately by telling her I'd rather slice my own member off that ever again put it in such a disloyal and whorish woman.


----------



## hard_to_detach

bandit.45 said:


> Well if you think about it, from her perspective she thinks he's letting her off easy. Which he probably is, but at this point it is neither here nor there.
> 
> She's living her college years all over again. She's not interested in marrying or settling down any time in the near future. She is a MILF and she likes being a MILF.
> 
> I think a few years down the road, if OP has not remarried, and after she has tired of being a sperm receptacle for idiots, she will come around again to see if he wants to settle down and renew their relationship. Could I be wrong?


You are right. I am letting her off easy and she is trying to live her college years, except she never went to college. That is the problem, she is trying to reclaim her youth. She does like being a MILF and I am sure down the road she will try to come around. I hope at that time I have a hot younger replacement.


----------



## bandit.45

> You are right. I am letting her off easy and she is trying to live her college years*, except she never went to college.* That is the problem, she is trying to reclaim her youth. She does like being a MILF and I am sure down the road she will try to come around. I hope at that time I have a hot younger replacement.



Well maybe if she went back to school and did something productive with her life she wouldn't feel the need to be such a ho.


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> You are right. I am letting her off easy and she is trying to live her college years, except she never went to college. That is the problem, she is trying to reclaim her youth. She does like being a MILF and I am sure down the road she will try to come around. *I hope at that time I have a hot younger replacement.*


We expect that of you so start making it happen......


----------



## WyshIknew

hard_to_detach said:


> You are right. I am letting her off easy and she is trying to live her college years, except she never went to college. That is the problem, she is trying to reclaim her youth. She does like being a MILF and I am sure down the road she will try to come around. I hope at that time I have a hot younger replacement.


Why does it have to always be a hot, younger replacement?

What if the hot young replacement gets her head turned by some hot young guy?

What on earth is wrong with it being a woman who loves you, who you love and a woman who is faithful to you?

What is the hot, younger replacement for? So you can walk up to your ex and say "nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah look what I've got."?

I am sure that if she is that type of woman the mere sight of you with a woman who obviously dotes on you will make her jealous.

And I don't know much about the psychology of women but if your new wife/gf is not as conventionally pretty as your ex I'm pretty sure that will also get under her skin.


----------



## turnera

Wysh, thank you for saying that. I know men are visual creatures, but really? Is that ALL women amount to? Looks? Tight bodies? Sex?


----------



## weightlifter

Wish you were still monitoring her email. I would love to see the latest email to whoever it was she emailed on your June 28 post.

I would imagine it goes along the lines of "What have I done?"

So lets break this down
FB ~June 14
ILYBNILY ~June 22
Sex ~July 14 (almost exactly 1 month and the proverbial line in the sand blocking any R)
Break Up 9/4
D Final 11/15

HTD -Think if this had happened you would eventually have D anyway?

Just wow.


----------



## WyshIknew

turnera said:


> Wysh, thank you for saying that. I know men are visual creatures, but really? Is that ALL women amount to? Looks? Tight bodies? Sex?


Depends on the occasion.

Sorry!


I think the hot young thing is a bit of a gee up for the betrayed spouse, something to cheer them up a bit.

I would hope that they realise that choosing a partner solely based on looks and age is not a wise life move.

If they don't and merely let a pretty face sway them they run the risk of problems later.

Not saying that a conventionally pretty woman is more likely to commit adultery just that basing your choice of partner on looks alone is a little silly.


----------



## turnera

I think it's more likely that men WANT the tight, sexy bodies because getting their d*ck hard is all that matters, and women want the caring, dependable man (no matter what the looks). I wish men could get that.


----------



## weightlifter

turnera said:


> I think it's more likely that men WANT the tight, sexy bodies because getting their d*ck hard is all that matters, and women want the caring, dependable man (no matter what the looks). I wish men could get that.


Depends on the woman Tun... For that matter the man too.

Its sad on the dichotomy for many women. They want to go home to Mr Dependable but fvck Mr Bad Boy. I roomed with a Bad Boy in college. His draw was amazing. LOL he became a lawyer too. Figures.

Too bad "You treat me so awesome and care for me, We are going to have hot sex" is rare in the dating world. Those men get "You are so nice. Lets just be friends"


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> I think it's more likely that men WANT the tight, sexy bodies because getting their d*ck hard is all that matters, and women want the caring, dependable man (no matter what the looks). I wish men could get that.


Yeah? And your point is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Should I move on?*



turnera said:


> I think it's more likely that men WANT the tight, sexy bodies because getting their d*ck hard is all that matters, and women want the caring, dependable man (no matter what the looks). I wish men could get that.


Some men do. But those men also hopefully know how to keep their wives from becoming bored.


----------



## hard_to_detach

WyshIknew said:


> Why does it have to always be a hot, younger replacement?
> 
> What if the hot young replacement gets her head turned by some hot young guy?
> 
> What on earth is wrong with it being a woman who loves you, who you love and a woman who is faithful to you?
> 
> What is the hot, younger replacement for? So you can walk up to your ex and say "nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah look what I've got."?
> 
> I am sure that if she is that type of woman the mere sight of you with a woman who obviously dotes on you will make her jealous.
> 
> And I don't know much about the psychology of women but if your new wife/gf is not as conventionally pretty as your ex I'm pretty sure that will also get under her skin.


Don't get me wrong, I am not just looking for a hot, younger replacement. It would just be nice if that is who I was with when she comes crawling back. Ultimately I want someone who loves me as much as I love them. If that person is not quite as attractive as my stbx but takes care of me better than she ever did, that will really get under her skin.

Right now this is all just vengeful thinking. In the end, I won't really care what she thinks. I just want to end up with someone who I can be happy with and who can be happy with me.


----------



## hard_to_detach

turnera said:


> I think it's more likely that men WANT the tight, sexy bodies because getting their d*ck hard is all that matters, and women want the caring, dependable man (no matter what the looks). I wish men could get that.


I don't fully agree with this. There are a lot of caring, dependable men who are not attractive who can't get a good woman. The fact of the matter is that man or woman, we get bored, and it takes both parties to recognize that and figure out what they need to not get that way. It is up to each individual to know what they need and how to keep from getting bored, they can't rely on their partner to do that. If they don't know, how can they expect their partner to.

I've seen a lot of women talk about a guy who is "such a nice guy, some woman will be really lucky". So why are they not going after him?


----------



## turnera

From what I've read, women's top needs in picking a guy are probably confidence, sense of humor (read: no anger issues), not needy or Nice Guy, dependable (read: good provider), and conversationalist. We can sense if a guy is lacking in these things, usually.


----------



## Dyokemm

"From what I've read, women's top needs in picking a guy are probably confidence, sense of humor (read: no anger issues), not needy or Nice Guy, dependable (read: good provider), and conversationalist. We can sense if a guy is lacking in these things, usually."

turnera,

I agree with you that the vast majority of women I have known or had as students overs the years would give you some version of that list if asked this question.

And some of them actually do seek out those things in the men they date.

Unfortunately, far more of them have gone after/dated a far different type of man then the ideal that comes out of their mouths.

Sadly, most of them would qualify to be called 'bum magnets'. If there was a loser s**tbag anywhere in the area, that would be the guy they wanted.

Now I freely admit, this is very anecdotal evidence, but I have definitely learned to watch what women do rather than what they say when it comes to what they really want in a man.


----------



## WyshIknew

hard_to_detach said:


> Don't get me wrong, I am not just looking for a hot, younger replacement. It would just be nice if that is who I was with when she comes crawling back. Ultimately I want someone who loves me as much as I love them. If that person is not quite as attractive as my stbx but takes care of me better than she ever did, that will really get under her skin.
> 
> Right now this is all just vengeful thinking. In the end, I won't really care what she thinks. I just want to end up with someone who I can be happy with and who can be happy with me.


A+++++

Absolutely superb attitude HTD, and this alone I would think will be more than enough to get under your wife's skin.

However by that time I would suspect that, as you say, you could care less about her stupidity.


----------



## Lovemytruck

hard_to_detach said:


> Right now this is all just vengeful thinking. In the end, I won't really care what she thinks. I just want to end up with someone who I can be happy with and who can be happy with me.


Very honest, and truthful. Live well, my friend, and let her fate lie with her.

Use your honed relationship skills to find a QUALITY woman. Then spend your days keeping things fresh, fun, and meaningful.

Someday you may want to thank your ex for allowing you the opportunity to find a better life.


----------



## LongWalk

Dyokemm said:


> "From what I've read, women's top needs in picking a guy are probably confidence, sense of humor (read: no anger issues), not needy or Nice Guy, dependable (read: good provider), and conversationalist. We can sense if a guy is lacking in these things, usually."
> 
> turnera,
> 
> I agree with you that the vast majority of women I have known or had as students overs the years would give you some version of that list if asked this question.
> 
> And some of them actually do seek out those things in the men they date.
> 
> Unfortunately, far more of them have gone after/dated a far different type of man then the ideal that comes out of their mouths.
> 
> Sadly, most of them would qualify to be called 'bum magnets'. If there was a loser s**tbag anywhere in the area, that would be the guy they wanted.
> 
> Now I freely admit, this is very anecdotal evidence, but I have definitely learned to watch what women do rather than what they say when it comes to what they really want in a man.


Women are attracted to the guy Turnera describes but at the same time there are obstacles. One, women who don't match up in sex ranking may not feel they can get these guys into a relationship.

Also, one thing I've noticed about some young women who are on the hunt for a boyfriend, they can be very cute, even beautiful, smart, but if they have a poor self image, then it shows. Just as women can read men. There are two women at work who I just get the feeling that they really fall for a guy and then no matter how great he turns out, in the long run they will pick him apart if he is not really secure. They will test him to pieces.

At the end of the day, few people are perfect and there are built in tensions between men and women, so the idea of commitment to one relationship for life is simply not very secure, as evidenced by divorce rates.


----------



## hard_to_detach

She left last night at 5pm to go meet with him. She didn't get home until almost 6am this morning. She had told me she was going to ask him to meet her half way so they could talk face to face....he wouldn't even do that. So she drove almost three hours to talk to him and they apparently talked for quite a while. I was walking out the door for work so I didn't get any details but she said it went ok, just emotional. I asked her if that meant they were back together and she said, "oh, no way". She looked absolutely wrecked. The only good thing I can say is that she made sure she was home in time to be there for the boys to start their second day of school.

I am not looking forward to the coming weeks as she processes all of this. I feel my old feelings creeping in but I know I need to shut them down as that relationship is dead and gone.


----------



## LongWalk

He either had sex with her or he rejected her... or both. And either way she completely lost face in that relationship, and rejection of her for LTR looks likely there.

Let her hit bottom. If you are ever to consider R, she must really go through IC.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LongWalk said:


> He either had sex with her or he rejected her... or both. And either way she completely lost face in that relationship, and rejection of her for LTR looks likely there.
> 
> Let her hit bottom. If you are ever to consider R, she must really go through IC.


I was thinking last night that she was probably over there trying to 'reconcile', but after seeing her this morning I'm pretty sure they didn't have sex. I'm sure we will talk about it at some point over the next couple days and I'll get an overview of what happened, not that I care.

She is still on her way to rock bottom. IC is a must if I were to ever consider R, and that would be many years down the road and if I don't find someone to replace her. Just IC is not enough though, she would need to show major improvement and it would start as a brand new relationship, not a continuation. For all I know, she may just be letting go of him for now and in the next year or two when he eventually gets a job closer, she will try to win him back....and that is one of the major hurdles for me. How would I ever know if she was over him or anyone else and truly committed to me?


----------



## BK23

hard_to_detach said:


> I was thinking last night that she was probably over there trying to 'reconcile', but after seeing her this morning I'm pretty sure they didn't have sex. I'm sure we will talk about it at some point over the next couple days and I'll get an overview of what happened, not that I care.
> 
> She is still on her way to rock bottom. IC is a must if I were to ever consider R, and that would be many years down the road and if I don't find someone to replace her. Just IC is not enough though, she would need to show major improvement and it would start as a brand new relationship, not a continuation. For all I know, she may just be letting go of him for now and in the next year or two when he eventually gets a job closer, she will try to win him back....and that is one of the major hurdles for me. How would I ever know if she was over him or anyone else and truly committed to me?


Whether you decide to R or D, you shouldn't act as her sounding board/shoulder to cry on. This isn't in your interests in any way, shape, or form. So when she inevitably wants to kvetch about what went down, just calmly let her know you aren't interested in discussing the details of her extra-marital love life.


----------



## bfree

Lovemytruck said:


> Someday you may want to thank your ex for allowing you the opportunity to find a better life.


Heck, I do that every day! My life now is absolutely fantastic. I'm so grateful to my exW for making it impossible for us to R. My wonderful wife and children thank her as well.


----------



## bfree

BK23 said:


> Whether you decide to R or D, you shouldn't act as her sounding board/shoulder to cry on. This isn't in your interests in any way, shape, or form. So when she inevitably wants to kvetch about what went down, just calmly let her know you aren't interested in discussing the details of her extra-marital love life.


Repeat after me. I am no longer her emotional tampon. That job belongs to someone else.


----------



## kenmoore14217

" How would I ever know if she was over him or anyone else and truly committed to me?"

you never will, that's why you end it and on YOUR terms !!


----------



## LongWalk

BK23 said:


> Whether you decide to R or D, you shouldn't act as her sounding board/shoulder to cry on. This isn't in your interests in any way, shape, or form. So when she inevitably wants to kvetch about what went down, just calmly let her know you aren't interested in discussing the details of her extra-marital love life.


LostLove got sucked into to listening to his wife complain about all the guys who slept with her but refused to devote themselves to her until the next date. Self destructive torture.

Don't dignify her mistakes with sympathy. She will not respect you for it and you will feel revolted.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> LostLove got sucked into to listening to his wife complain about all the guys who slept with her but refused to devote themselves to her until the next date. Self destructive torture.
> 
> Don't dignify her mistakes with sympathy. She will not respect you for it and you will feel revolted.


She is definitely wired differently no use in reasoning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

BK23 said:


> Whether you decide to R or D


Nope, definitely going through with the divorce. My thoughts on R are hypothetical.


----------



## LongWalk

Well, if you are secure in your plan, then it will just be water off the duck's back


----------



## weightlifter

hard_to_detach said:


> Nope, definitely going through with the divorce. My thoughts on R are hypothetical.


Whew. When she crossed the pa line in the sand... If you went back on that now she would always know you as a paper tiger.

Just think on that day in the future when you say i love you to the future mrs htd v2.0, she says the same and that wonderful super intense sex that will follow that night. Oh and looking into eyes that never betrayed you...


----------



## weightlifter

Glad she seems to be taking mom duties seiously.


----------



## Acabado

I might be thinking on a different thread, I'm sorry if I'm wrong but weren't ILs fully suporting her new search of happiness with this loser?
They must be shocked. News from them?


----------



## bandit.45

A I know is if my old lady stayed out all night like that ( when a phone call could have sufficed) I wouldn't even fvcking talk to her. Her sh!t would be on the lawn. No way I would put up with disrespect like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

Acabado said:


> I might be thinking on a different thread, I'm sorry if I'm wrong but weren't ILs fully suporting her new search of happiness with this loser?
> They must be shocked. News from them?


Her mom, brother, and sister in-law support her. I know her brother and sister in-law already know but not sure about her mom. She doesn't want to tell her dad for a while because she will definitely get the "I tried to tell you" speech from him.


----------



## LongWalk

They support her two failed relationships? Failed marriage and failed affair? There is nothing to support beyond offering moral encouragement not to self destruct.

You should read LoveLove77's thread.


----------



## tom67

hard_to_detach said:


> Her mom, brother, and sister in-law support her. I know her brother and sister in-law already know but not sure about her mom. She doesn't want to tell her dad for a while because she will definitely get the "I tried to tell you" speech from him.


I know they are family but mine would not enable me like that, but then what is she telling them? Hmm. That's a screwed up family imo.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> I was thinking last night that she was probably over there trying to 'reconcile', but after seeing her this morning I'm pretty sure they didn't have sex. I'm sure we will talk about it at some point over the next couple days and I'll get an overview of what happened, not that I care.
> 
> She is still on her way to rock bottom. IC is a must if I were to ever consider R, and that would be many years down the road and if I don't find someone to replace her. Just IC is not enough though, she would need to show major improvement and it would start as a brand new relationship, not a continuation. For all I know, she may just be letting go of him for now and in the next year or two when he eventually gets a job closer, she will try to win him back....and that is one of the major hurdles for me. How would I ever know if she was over him or anyone else and truly committed to me?



HTD, if not him it would be someone else. She would just be marking time just like she has for years. She has an itch she just wants scratched and does not care who she hurts in the process. Divorce her completely and move on. Let her compete with every other single woman out there for your attention. Compete from scratch.


----------



## hard_to_detach

We ended up talking quite openly and honestly last night. She told me about her visit with him. She needed to look him in the eyes to see what he was feeling. She is still in love with him and would have tried to make the long distance thing work for as long as it took. She says she can tell he still loves her but just can't do the long distance thing for as long as it is going to take for him to get over here. I'm sorry, if I had found the love of my life and all that stood in my way was a 3 hour drive and a year or two, I'd make it work. This isn't an easy relationship anymore so he is going to move on. She said they will try to remain friends and see each other when they can, but she isn't sure if she'll be able to handle that because she is so devastated.

Get this....she tried to tell me I can't understand. I told her I CAN understand because I was in love with her and know what it feels like to be rejected by the person you love. She got this look of pain and sadness in her eyes like she finally understood what she has done to me. He is always going to be in her heart and the one that got away so I pretty much got my answer as to whether I would ever want to R with her in the future....nope.

She told me I am her best friend and she has missed me and wants to be able to maintain that aspect of our relationship. I told her that she lost the privilege of having access to my personal life. I will remain friends enough for us to get along for the kids and keep life civil while we are living together but I can't do more. This will be the last deep discussion we have. That being said, I realize I am still mourning my loss. I still have very deep feelings for her and am struggling with that. I will not try to get her back or hope for her to come around but I keep getting flooded with memories and the life we had planned.

We started to fight a bit as the topic of the last few months came up and our friend's treatment of her. She thinks I affected their view of her and is looking forward to proving that she 'didn't leave you for him'. I told her that is not why people are mad at her. They understand she wasn't in love with me, I told her they don't like that she pursued a relationship before she was free to and still living in my house and not having a job. She said 'I was done the first day we talked about it' and I said I understand that but she should have moved out then. She will not acknowledge that what she did is wrong and THAT is what people have an issue with. I told her that if that is the point our marriage was over then she should have moved out or else started paying half of all the household expenses. She threw back in my face that she has shelled out tons of money toward things AND paid for the divorce when we should have split it. I told her that she is the one who wanted the divorce so it is right she should pay for it and if she wanted me to and viewed our marriage as over on D-day, then she should have been paying half of all expenses. We kept going around in circles and got nowhere. She is a cake eater and if the viewpoint doesn't fit with her actions she dismisses it.

She may not be actively involved with him, but her craziness is still off the charts. She did say one thing that made me smile. She said she is realizing I am correct about all these guys contacting her and is not flattered by it anymore. She is actually getting annoyed by it.

Time for me to get back on track with detaching and schedule another therapy appointment, although all of you are more helpful than the professional.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Hurry up and dump her on her $ass


----------



## BK23

I hope you got it out of your system. If I were you, I'd go as dark as possible at this point.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I did. We haven't talked seriously in 3 months so I just needed some closure and last night I got it. The time on the cruise and us getting along, then him breaking up with her, kind of threw me for a loop. I am back and focused on me and moving on.


----------



## bandit.45

It's not love. If she were in love she would not be having sex with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Your WW is really a fool if she believes this POS ever had any true feelings for her.

There is no way if his love was legitimate that he would not lift heaven and earth to build a relationship with her.

He sounds to me like some pathetically weak man that tries to prove his 'alpha' status by courting and capturing women, in particular those in relationships as it helps to inflate his sorry ego.

I think that's why he got so upset about the trip. It hurt his weak sense of pride and self-image to see that your WW was still not entirely in his back pocket.

His rejection of her is a direct result of this. He's having a pathetic little temper tantrum because his feelings were hurt by her interactions with you.

This guy is such a b***h.


----------



## weightlifter

hard_to_detach said:


> Get this....she tried to tell me I can't understand. I told her I CAN understand because I was in love with her and know what it feels like to be rejected by the person you love. She got this look of pain and sadness in her eyes like she finally understood what she has done to me. He is always going to be in her heart and the one that got away so I pretty much got my answer as to whether I would ever want to R with her in the future....nope.
> 
> She did say one thing that made me smile. She said she is realizing I am correct about all these guys contacting her and is not flattered by it anymore. She is actually getting annoyed by it.


WOW. 2 epiphanies inside of a minute.
a) She gets what she did to you
b) You finally completely shut the door.

Actually I'm kind of glad she realized she is being played by all these men coming out of the woodwork. There is hope she wont go overboard on the ONS thing. Which could affect her mom-ing of the kids. Maybe some day, figure out what a good man she lost and what a good man actually is. Oddly I kinda feel bad for her and yet I know she has it coming. Sad really.

Hint for her: It aint Barney Fife who just broke up with her.

Anyway. Work on your heart while you work your body. You will make some woman very very happy in a few years. Just remember the 6 who loves you with her whole heart is better than the 8 that will always be fickle/ looking to trade up. Not that both isnt great but there is a point past "doable" that the mind has FAR FAR more value than the looks. No Im not saying date a 2. 

Future Mrs HTD will be wondering. 
"What kind of woman gave HIM up?"
"Oh well her loss MY GAIN!"

Looking back. Did your job blocking mostly stop him from moving closer or was it something in his own record?


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> It's not love. If she were in love she would not be having sex with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you think it's going to set you back mentally, stop having sex with her now, and start going out and dating so you move on without the confusion just a suggestion.


----------



## Dyokemm

Oh...and great job HTD killing that ridiculous fantasy your immature WW has about you and her remaining 'best friends'.

Man does she have her head firmly lodged up her rear end right now.

But that just means her crash and burn will be that much more painful for her when this teenage fantasy bs dies and she wakes up to reality again.

Sad to see.


----------



## bandit.45

No friendship. None. 

Friends do not tear each others hearts out and stomp on them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

HTD

Did your stbxw have a partial, total or radical hysterectomy? What time frame?

Wondering if it might be some effect.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> Oddly I kinda feel bad for her and yet I know she has it coming. Sad really.
> 
> Looking back. Did your job blocking mostly stop him from moving closer or was it something in his own record?


My best friend said the same thing when he saw her a couple weeks ago. He said he kind of felt sorry for her. He is also the one who said that within 90 days of when this started they would be done....I thought longer.

She told me why he went form a detective to a beat cop. Last year he broke up with his fiance' and then a couple days later his ex moved across the state. So according to my stbxw, he told her that he was not in a good place and ended up oversleeping and missing his beginning of shift meeting a couple times in one week so they put him on probation. That was less than a year ago, so the departments are telling him they would like to see over a year since the probation and according to their policy he can't re-apply for a year anyway. I'm sure my info aided in their decision on his character.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> HTD
> 
> Did your stbxw have a partial, total or radical hysterectomy? What time frame?
> 
> Wondering if it might be some effect.


Partial. She still has her ovaries and that was 11 years ago.


----------



## weightlifter

Blind alley then. Have heard of them having deep deep psychological impacts. Especially when the ovaries are taken but I guess this is not the case.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I can feel myself getting back to where I was before the trip. As I said before, I am not going to initiate sex or ask for it but if it is on the table I'll take it for a while. I AM going to start pursuing some woman and experiencing that.

She has told me on several occasions, and again last night, that she wants me to go get laid and experience someone new and find someone that can make me happy. Either she is genuine, or she feels guilty and needs me to do that to feel better about herself, or she is hoping I will do that and afterwards decide I want her. The thing I do know is that she may be saying that now, but once it happens, she is going to change her tune.


----------



## tom67

She doesn't think beyond a few weeks does she. She'll bounce from one guy to another until well, no one really wants her for that. She'll be alone her kids won't respect her or visit her that much if at all, have a bottle of something in front of her and 6 cats. You tried hard she didn't if she had some intense ic maybe.


----------



## hard_to_detach

She told me on the trip that if things didn't work out with POSOM she wanted to go wild and do everything she ever wanted. She would make a list of all the men and women she wanted to sleep with and do it to get it out of her system. Last night when she told me that she realized I was right and all these guys were coming out of the woodwork and just wanted one thing she said her feelings about that have changed and she doesn't want to do that. She said she just wants to be alone. I don't know what to make of that other than she is mourning the loss of the relationship she thought she had. It could also be that she liked the idea of it when she thought they were 'friends' with her for more than just that and now that she realizes they only want one thing it doesn't give her the validation she needs.

I have to say, watching her come to these realizations is quite gratifiying. Everything I told her would happen, has happened. It reinforces in me that everything I have done and am doing is right as well.


----------



## bandit.45

She's so full of crap. I guarantee the first time you have sex with another woman she will collapse into a bubbling pile of sobbing snot. 

This woman is completely out of touch with herself and reality. 

Well, let her experience reality. Find a willing woman and bang her. Then sit back and watch the breakdown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> She's so full of crap. I guarantee the first time you have sex with another woman she will collapse into a bubbling pile of sobbing snot.
> 
> This woman is completely out of touch with herself and reality.
> 
> Well, let her experience reality. Find a willing woman and bang her. Then sit back and watch the breakdown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hard she says she wants to be alone, don't worry she will be alone down the road.:banghead:


----------



## tom67

It was how she was brought up this was learned. You said her mother and grandmother turned out like this right? Sigh-


----------



## Dyokemm

"The thing I do know is that she may be saying that now, but once it happens, she is going to change her tune."

I agree with this 100%, especially as she is currently in such a depressed state after being dumped by POSOM.

You already know from her comments that she is consoling herself somewhat because she still has you as her 'best friend'. Its why she said she misses you in that role.

I know you put a dent in that line of thought HTD with your comments to her, but your WW does not seem to be one to really let the reality of a situation or what people are saying to her sink in right away.

When she sees her security blanket and comfort going out with strange women, she is gonna freak out.

Be prepared for it my friend.


----------



## BK23

hard_to_detach said:


> She told me why he went form a detective to a beat cop. Last year he broke up with his fiance' and then a couple days later his ex moved across the state. So according to my stbxw, he told her that he was not in a good place and ended up oversleeping and missing his beginning of shift meeting a couple times in one week so they put him on probation. That was less than a year ago, so the departments are telling him they would like to see over a year since the probation and according to their policy he can't re-apply for a year anyway. I'm sure my info aided in their decision on his character.


This sounds like a load of BS.


----------



## Lovemytruck

hard_to_detach said:


> She told me on the trip that if things didn't work out with POSOM she wanted to go wild and do everything she ever wanted. She would make a list of all the men and women she wanted to sleep with and do it to get it out of her system. Last night when she told me that she realized I was right and all these guys were coming out of the woodwork and just wanted one thing she said her feelings about that have changed and she doesn't want to do that. She said she just wants to be alone. I don't know what to make of that other than she is mourning the loss of the relationship she thought she had. It could also be that she liked the idea of it when she thought they were 'friends' with her for more than just that and now that she realizes they only want one thing it doesn't give her the validation she needs...


She reeks of neediness. I have a feeling that being alone will not be her cup of tea.

I strongly second what the guys have posted about her getting upset when another woman is in your picture. 

Katie bar the door! Lol! 

I remember very clearly the day my exWW found out I had a new gf... 

It still makes me smile!!!


----------



## tom67

Lovemytruck said:


> She reeks of neediness. I have a feeling that being alone will not be her cup of tea.
> 
> I strongly second what the guys have posted about her getting upset when another woman is in your picture.
> 
> Katie bar the door! Lol!
> 
> I remember very clearly the day my exWW found out I had a new gf...
> 
> It still makes me smile!!!


It will scare the sh!t out of her you are no longer plan b.


----------



## Lovemytruck

tom67 said:


> It will scare the sh!t out of her you are no longer plan b.


Not to threadjack....

Just an observation.

I wonder why so many WS need to crash so hard before they finally realize that the safety net can be pulled away. 

What is happening with so many people growing up in a society that has no consequences for their bad behavior?

I believe it is HTD's duty to help her grow into that wonderful woman she should be by removing the net. Maybe she will "get it" someday.

Hope you (HTD) also get your reward...a decent woman that will treat you with kindness, respect, and occasionally will leave you shaking with satisfaction. 

Have a great weekend!


----------



## hard_to_detach

Lovemytruck said:


> I believe it is HTD's duty to help her grow into that wonderful woman she should be by removing the net. Maybe she will "get it" someday.
> 
> Hope you (HTD) also get your reward...a decent woman that will treat you with kindness, respect, and occasionally will leave you shaking with satisfaction.
> 
> Have a great weekend!


Not that I feel it is my duty, but I do want to steer her in the right direction. Perhaps it is an overdeveloped sense of loyalty or humanity or whatever, but someone who has meant that much to me who is spiraling out of control even though she has hurt me deserves to have someone try to help her. I won't do it to my detriment but if I can have some small impact that will eventually lead to her coming out of this more emotionally and mentally healthy then I have done my part. I have said my piece to her and now to pull the saftey net. It's all I can do now.


----------



## tom67

hard_to_detach said:


> Not that I feel it is my duty, but I do want to steer her in the right direction. Perhaps it is an overdeveloped sense of loyalty or humanity or whatever, but someone who has meant that much to me who is spiraling out of control even though she has hurt me deserves to have someone try to help her. I won't do it to my detriment but if I can have some small impact that will eventually lead to her coming out of this more emotionally and mentally healthy then I have done my part. I have said my piece to her and now to pull the saftey net. It's all I can do now.


:smthumbup:You did all you could, now find a hottie and get her jealous:FIREdevil::FIREdevil:


----------



## Chaparral

Though its no guarantee, check out the mother of any future prospects.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Chaparral said:


> Though its no guarantee, check out the mother of any future prospects.


Yes, I should have known from the beginning. Her dad and I are a lot alike and her mom did a similar thing to him 30 years ago. Then she went from boyfriend to boyfriend dragging her kids along and moving in with them, married an alcoholic and stuck with him for 7 or 8 years then left him for a guy from work she was cheating with. She moved on from him a year later and ended up marrying her current husband. They have been married for 12 years and are now getting divorced....she will be filing within the next few weeks. This one she has actually tried and I will say that it is all on him and she has not cheated...that I know of. 

All my stbx has to do is look at the history of her mom to know where her life is headed, but she thinks she is somehow different. Her dad met someone after he got dumped and they will celebrate 30 years of marriage next summer. 

I guess what I'm saying is: I will for sure be looking at the mother of whoever I am with.


----------



## bandit.45

Lovemytruck said:


> She reeks of neediness. I have a feeling that being alone will not be her cup of tea.
> 
> I strongly second what the guys have posted about her getting upset when another woman is in your picture.
> 
> Katie bar the door! Lol!
> 
> I remember very clearly the day my exWW found out I had a new gf...
> 
> It still makes me smile!!!


What did she do?


----------



## Dyokemm

"she thinks she is somehow different."

This is one of the most powerful tools of self-deception that exists.

People will do anything to convince themselves that their life situations are somehow unique.

I don't care if its in relationships, drugs, alcohol...whatever. They do not want to see the warning signs so will do anything to avoid looking into them.

I am no longer religious, but one of my favorite Bible verses addresses this point (and I love it cause it also applies in history, which is a subject I have always liked).

"There is nothing new under the sun."


----------



## LongWalk

It has taken LostLove's wife longer but she has reached the same point – she feels empty and her stbxh has to listen to her struggle with her lack of direction.



> To be fair, I don't believe there were really any ONSs or full blown promiscuity but no need to split hairs i guess.
> 
> She keeps saying time and time again that it's not that she doesn't feel anything but that she's "broken". I still can't get a clear idea what she means by this. Something like she has no deep feelings of commitment or longing for anyone's company.


Here is the link to his thread

I agree with poster above: many patterns repeat themselves. But what surprise can there be in this. People do what people do.


----------



## Dyokemm

LongWalk,

Holy crap! I just read through that thread.

I feel for that poor guy, but d**n if there was ever a thread where a BS handled things almost totally wrong and let his WW run him, this is it.

He still doesn't seem to realize that the whole separation had absolutely nothing to do with him and was instead because she was already cheating.

And he believes everything that comes out of her mouth about when it went PA, that there were no other PA's/ONS with the multitude of other OM's.

If she called him up tomorrow, he'd run back in a second! He's that desperately attached to her STILL after all this abuse.

HTD, 

if you read through that thread, all I can say is do the exact OPPOSITE of everything LostLove has done.

It's a sad story and I feel for the guy...but geesh.


----------



## weightlifter

bandit.45 said:


> She's so full of crap. I guarantee the first time you have sex with another woman she will collapse into a bubbling pile of sobbing snot.
> 
> This woman is completely out of touch with herself and reality.
> 
> Well, let her experience reality. Find a willing woman and bang her. Then sit back and watch the breakdown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im not so sure. Now dont get me wrong she has it coming but lets take it at face value that she means it when she says she is out of love with him. This would greatly reduce the amount of snot bubbles. Note this is NOT a prediction of no reaction. But I think her reaction will be "It hurts but I did it and in the end I am happy for you. Damn it hurts"

I also dont necessarily see her life breaking down completely LONG term. She seems to have a 3 digit IQ and is realizing that she needs to plan a bit better. Example going from fvcking every man (and woman? Did she say that HTD? Has she had lesbian experience before? Maybe she needs to let you be involved in a FFM 3some!) then deciding perhaps 100 lovers is a tad high. Yes even for you HTD. GET LAID. Be practical about it tho. If you meet Mrs HTD v2.0 and have "That discussion" about past lovers the last thing you want to do is roll out a list as long as the one Santa Clause has.

Anyway Ill put it at even money she gets her act together enough to get her head straighter, attract a man and eventually marry him. HTD said it himself, she is banging hot. IF she can figure out how to sort the right man from the 100000 volunteers, you never know.


----------



## weightlifter

hard_to_detach said:


> Not that I feel it is my duty, but I do want to steer her in the right direction. Perhaps it is an overdeveloped sense of loyalty or humanity or whatever, but someone who has meant that much to me who is spiraling out of control even though she has hurt me deserves to have someone try to help her. I won't do it to my detriment but if I can have some small impact that will eventually lead to her coming out of this more emotionally and mentally healthy then I have done my part. I have said my piece to her and now to pull the saftey net. It's all I can do now.


This post only reinforces my idea that once you heal and ms right walks by. You will make a Mrs HTD v2.0 very very happy.

Revenge is easy. The high road you are taking in having mercy is hard. VERY hard. 

BTW make sure its a small impact. You do need to detach and the TAM army wants YOU to heal foremost.


----------



## turnera

hard_to_detach said:


> Not that I feel it is my duty, but I do want to steer her in the right direction.


Not your job.

Never was.

Might have been part of the problem.


----------



## LongWalk

Dyokemm said:


> LongWalk,
> 
> Holy crap! I just read through that thread.
> 
> I feel for that poor guy, but d**n if there was ever a thread where a BS handled things almost totally wrong and let his WW run him, this is it.
> 
> He still doesn't seem to realize that the whole separation had absolutely nothing to do with him and was instead because she was already cheating.
> 
> And he believes everything that comes out of her mouth about when it went PA, that there were no other PA's/ONS with the multitude of other OM's.
> 
> If she called him up tomorrow, he'd run back in a second! He's that desperately attached to her STILL after all this abuse.
> 
> HTD,
> 
> if you read through that thread, all I can say is do the exact OPPOSITE of everything LostLove has done.
> 
> It's a sad story and I fell for the guy...but geesh.


Of course, he should have done things differently. But he is a self employed web guy working from home. He got isolated and in his loneliness she found the means of reinforcing the isolation. She led him on and he fell for it.

HTD has not fallen into such a dire situation but the dynamic is the same.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Of course, he should have done things differently. But he is a self employed web guy working from home. He got isolated and in his loneliness she found the means of reinforcing the isolation. She led him on and he fell for it.
> 
> HTD has not fallen into such a dire situation but the dynamic is the same.


Exactly and he has a much higher sex ranking right now and she has no idea what's ahead for her.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> Im not so sure. Now dont get me wrong she has it coming but lets take it at face value that she means it when she says she is out of love with him. This would greatly reduce the amount of snot bubbles. Note this is NOT a prediction of no reaction. But I think her reaction will be "It hurts but I did it and in the end I am happy for you. Damn it hurts"
> 
> I also dont necessarily see her life breaking down completely LONG term. She seems to have a 3 digit IQ and is realizing that she needs to plan a bit better.
> 
> Anyway Ill put it at even money she gets her act together enough to get her head straighter, attract a man and eventually marry him. HTD said it himself, she is banging hot. IF she can figure out how to sort the right man from the 100000 volunteers, you never know.


You are right. She is a smart woman...usually. She will figure things out and turn her life in the right direction. I know there will be some jealousy/hurt moments when she sees me with another woman but it won't reduce her to snot bubbles.

I got a small taste of it this weekend. A friend of ours got married this weekend and we ended up going out afterward with a friend of ours and this 27 year old single girl. Our friend has a boyfriend and is extremely attractive and we have always flirted and have a close relationship but nothing would ever happen. This happens around her boyfriend too and we are close so nothing out of the ordinary. At one point though, I noticed my stbx visible slump and act irritated when she witnessed me and this woman flirting. Then later in the night it is just me and this 27 year old talk, fairly intensely about life and relationships, and of course my stbx decides to walk up and sit down at our table and insert herself into the conversation. I was not there to pick anyone up but it was intersting to see her reaction. Incidentally, when we got home and I was done brushing my teeth and headed to my bedroom, she stopped me in the hall and initiated a mind blowing night cap. I'll take it while it is available but have a few women I've been working on and should have some good stories for you soon.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> Example going from fvcking every man (and woman? Did she say that HTD? Has she had lesbian experience before? Maybe she needs to let you be involved in a FFM 3some!) then deciding perhaps 100 lovers is a tad high.


Yes, she has had lesbian experiences. When things started going sideways 6 years ago that was one of the things she told me. She had always been curious about that but didn't think I would be ok with it. We discussed it and set up some boundaries to explore a bit. We decided that as long as we were both there it was ok but no doing it without the other. This led to some fun times, threesomes and foursome, but ultimately I think it contributed to our downfall. At the time I didn't realize it but I do now...she has boundary issues. She broke the agreement on one occasion she has admitted to but I know it was more. She still enjoys being with a woman from time to time but is definitely straight.

One of her guy friends met with her on Saturday and he is having issues with his wife...she is crazy. My stbx thinks she and he are just friends and he views her as a big sister since she is a few years older and their relationship has always been like this...giving advice and listening. I pressed her a bit and told her that if he and his wife split up he will be knocking on her door in a heartbeat because he doesn't view her like a sister. She got all defensive and told me to stop ruining it for her but after some discussion she admitted that I am probably right. What is bothering her is not that I am right about these guys, it is that she wants them to be her friends and like her for who she is and she is realizing that there will always be an ulterior motive.

Is there something wrong with me that I find it is quite entertaining to watch her struggle with all of this.


----------



## weightlifter

hard_to_detach said:


> Yes, she has had lesbian experiences. When things started going sideways 6 years ago that was one of the things she told me. She had always been curious about that but didn't think I would be ok with it. We discussed it and set up some boundaries to explore a bit. We decided that as long as we were both there it was ok but no doing it without the other. This led to some fun times, threesomes and foursome, but ultimately I think it contributed to our downfall. At the time I didn't realize it but I do now...she has boundary issues. She broke the agreement on one occasion she has admitted to but I know it was more. She still enjoys being with a woman from time to time but is definitely straight.


The explanation of "gayness" that I buy into is a spectrum not an absolute. Not all straights are 100%. Not all gays are 100% and not all bi's are 50/50. Im guessing she is 20% lez from the above.

OK Ill bite. The threesomes were all FFM? Did she get peen action on the 4somes?

Were all the known deal breaks with females?

For future reference. Obviously your road but adding people into a relationship is one kink I recommend stay in the undone category in the future with anyone who might potentially be Mrs HTD v2.0.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> The explanation of "gayness" that I buy into is a spectrum not an absolute. Not all straights are 100%. Not all gays are 100% and not all bi's are 50/50. Im guessing she is 20% lez from the above.
> 
> OK Ill bite. The threesomes were all FFM? Did she get peen action on the 4somes?
> 
> Were all the known deal breaks with females?
> 
> For future reference. Obviously your road but adding people into a relationship is one kink I recommend stay in the undone category in the future with anyone who might potentially be Mrs HTD v2.0.


Here is my take on the "gayness" spectrum. Any guy who says he is bi is a gay man who also has sex with women...no straight man is going to have sex with a man. Any women who says she is bi is a straight woman who also has sex with women.

No, our first was MMF. He was a good friend who had just finalized his divorce and we felt comfortable with him. (he and I never got close to touching just to clarify) At the time it was something we both wanted to explore but looking back it definitely contributed to our downfall. It was after that encounter that she went out with a friend of ours and another couple and didn't come home. She denied anything happened that night until just a couple months ago and even then only said that her and the wife had sex while the husband watched but he didn't touch her. I have since confirmed that was a lie as well. She had sex with both of them on at least one occasion and probably more but I can't confirm that. The foursome was MFMF and we swapped partners. Again, at the time we were both curious and thought that if we did it together we could get it out of our systems....all it did was drive her to break the boundaries. I don't know how many times she went outside our agreement and never will but I will never make that mistake again.

She knew how I felt about all of this. I told her that even if she is having sex with a woman, if I am not there it is cheating. I know it sounds weird and people may not understand but that is how I felt and so did she. There was one time where I went out of town with some friends and she couldn't go. We hadn't been doing the "open" relationship thing for a while and were trying to patch things up after a period where we were splitting up. I was staying in a hotel room with a couple who are our oldest friends and they had tried the open relationship thing too. My stbx told me to have fun and have a threesome with them....so I did. As the trip got closer she expressed some concern over me doing it but never said she didn't want me to and also said she didn't feel like it was fair for her to say no. I told her that if she didn't want me to, all she had to do was tell me not to and I wouldn't. When I got back she asked if I did and then flipped out over it and stayed at her brothers house for a week. She ended up telling him and his wife about what we had been doing and they are the ones who told her she was being ridiculous for being angry at me. Two years later here I am.

I have since told her that she is a piece of sh1t for making me feel so bad about what I had done considering what she had....and that was based on her telling me about the sex with the wife of the couple. She doesn't even know I know the whole truth. My marriage was basically over 6 years ago, I just didn't want to admit it. I did what I thought I needed to do to save it, and compromised thinking it would help. All of this is a lesson on what not to do in the future.


----------



## weightlifter

Wow. Classic reason why you tell your partner all your kinks but let a few of the most dangerous ones go undone.

Adding people to a relationship is very very dangerous. Entirely different psychology between us. Seeing another man in my woman, ANY man, would make me homicidal. Not a dig at you. Your psychology is just entirely different.

Hope you are getting into that detachment thing better.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> Hope you are getting into that detachment thing better.


I am. This week is going much better than last week. We are living the parenting plan so I take care of the kids this week and weekend. I am in talks with one of the women from the trip and will probably do something with her next week. I need to get out there to keep things moving in the right direction for me.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Back in March I set a goal to get in shape and set a target. I weighed myself yesterday and realized I have reached my target weight! Started in March but it accelerated in June after d-day. I have lost 22lbs and weigh what I did as a senior in high school. Now I am focusing on getting back to the 8 to 10% body fat I was back then. I am going to work on it through the winter and will be back to that by next summer ready for boating, pools, and shirtless days in the sun!


----------



## warlock07

hard_to_detach said:


> Here is my take on the "gayness" spectrum. Any guy who says he is bi is a gay man who also has sex with women...no straight man is going to have sex with a man. Any women who says she is bi is a straight woman who also has sex with women.
> 
> No, our first was MMF. He was a good friend who had just finalized his divorce and we felt comfortable with him. (he and I never got close to touching just to clarify) At the time it was something we both wanted to explore but looking back it definitely contributed to our downfall. It was after that encounter that she went out with a friend of ours and another couple and didn't come home. She denied anything happened that night until just a couple months ago and even then only said that her and the wife had sex while the husband watched but he didn't touch her. I have since confirmed that was a lie as well. She had sex with both of them on at least one occasion and probably more but I can't confirm that. The foursome was MFMF and we swapped partners. Again, at the time we were both curious and thought that if we did it together we could get it out of our systems....all it did was drive her to break the boundaries. I don't know how many times she went outside our agreement and never will but I will never make that mistake again.
> 
> She knew how I felt about all of this. I told her that even if she is having sex with a woman, if I am not there it is cheating. I know it sounds weird and people may not understand but that is how I felt and so did she. There was one time where I went out of town with some friends and she couldn't go. We hadn't been doing the "open" relationship thing for a while and were trying to patch things up after a period where we were splitting up. I was staying in a hotel room with a couple who are our oldest friends and they had tried the open relationship thing too. My stbx told me to have fun and have a threesome with them....so I did. As the trip got closer she expressed some concern over me doing it but never said she didn't want me to and also said she didn't feel like it was fair for her to say no. I told her that if she didn't want me to, all she had to do was tell me not to and I wouldn't. When I got back she asked if I did and then flipped out over it and stayed at her brothers house for a week. She ended up telling him and his wife about what we had been doing and they are the ones who told her she was being ridiculous for being angry at me. Two years later here I am.
> 
> I have since told her that she is a piece of sh1t for making me feel so bad about what I had done considering what she had....and that was based on her telling me about the sex with the wife of the couple. She doesn't even know I know the whole truth. My marriage was basically over 6 years ago, I just didn't want to admit it. I did what I thought I needed to do to save it, and compromised thinking it would help. All of this is a lesson on what not to do in the future.



To be honest, after reading this...your first post makes a lot more sense..She was gone a long time back and you were ust buying time with all this bargaining. It was ust a matter of when. if not for this idiot, it would have been some other guy. Too many enablers in her life, including you(atleast until the last event)


----------



## hard_to_detach

warlock07 said:


> To be honest, after reading this...your first post makes a lot more sense..She was gone a long time back and you were ust buying time with all this bargaining. It was ust a matter of when. if not for this idiot, it would have been some other guy. Too many enablers in her life, including you(atleast until the last event)


Yep...no more enabler here. You're right, it would have been some other idiot.


----------



## hard_to_detach

So the weekend was interesting. Friday night she had a "date" night with her gay best friend. He had wine and a rose waiting for her when she got there so she took a picture and posted it on FB with some comment about how sweet he is. I made a comment about how he knows how to treat a woman...just as a crack because he is gay. One of the vultures that stalks her on FB made a snide comment and she responded about him being a real man who knows how to take care of a friend going through a hard time. I went to bed early because I was getting up early to play a really nice golf course. I am woken up at about 5am to her climbing into my bed, cuddling up to me, and laying her head on my chest. I asked her what she was doing and she said she was laying in her bed and could smell me on the sheets and doesn't know why she came in but that she knows it isn't fair because if I did that to her she would be pissed....which is correct.

I tell her to just stay there and go to sleep and I get up and start getting ready. While I am golfing she sends me a text asking if I thought her comment about "being a real man" was directed at me. I don't look at my phone while golfing so I didn't respond but asked her about it when I got home. Apparently the POSOM saw the posts and thought it was directed at him and was pissed she was posting pictures of her date. I think she did that on purpose to get a rise out of him and it worked. He ripped into her about it all and she fired back, then sent his message to her sister in-law who's response was that he sounds possessive and immature. She hasn't talked to him since and made comments over the weekend that leads me to believe she is starting to see the real him and realizing she was played.

Saturday night she was going to her brother's house for a party but didn't really feel like going and ended up coming home a few hours later. Sunday she went tailgating, but again, didn't feel like going. She got there and ended up being faced with all of our friends that she has not seen or talked to in 3 months. It was awkward at first and they kind of had it out but smoothed things over. I went over to some other friends house to watch the game and she ended up showing up there as well. That night she said she had a good day but the best part of the day wasn't tailgating, it was coming to our friends house to watch the game. I take that to mean that it was good because she was spending time with me.

She continues to talk and act like we are getting divorced but I keep getting very distinct messages that she is waivering. I think as the time draws close, she is feeling scared and trying to hold on to comfort. I will use that to my advantage to keep the divorce on track and on the terms we already agreed to but it does make it difficult because it stirs my emotions. It is her week with the boys so I am making plans for the weekend so I won't be home much and out with friends.


----------



## angstire

Don't read too much into what she says. You're looking for meaning where there may not be any. Or she could be manipulating you. Focus on you, if she wants to spend time with you, change on the divorce, etc., she'll let you know.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Yeah, I get that. I do think she is trying to manipulate me because the final divorce date is rapidly approaching and she doesn't know what she is going to do.


----------



## weightlifter

Quoting the famous: You have done well grasshopper.

Clearly she is trying to build bridges to you. Whether they are full out R bridges, or FWB bridges I dont know.

Some will disagree but I believe there is a distinct possibility she will let the D go thru and is trying to set up a quid pro quo. You get hot sex in trade for emotional support when she needs it.


----------



## weightlifter

reread post.

Ask women but I recall reading several places that some women love being inseminated and not cleaning up inside because they loved the feeling of part of the man being inside her AND ***that they could smell their man***... Uhboy Im wondering if the fog is breaking hard now and she is trying to plan B you.

Yike 2 conflicting theories.
Need female input on the smell thing.


----------



## Lovemytruck

HTD,

Good to see an update.

I would think that your path to a D would still be wise.

You have been through hell. I would bet the farm that you will come to a point in time where you realize you deserve better. Cliche' but true in this case.

Honestly is this crap, and who she is worth your time and money? Tell me you can do better. YOU CAN DO BETTER!!!

You "love" her still. Put it aside for now. Move on, and re-assess "love" after you are single for a few months. Spouses can, and sometimes should be replaced.

So much for my cheerleading. I would hope that you can gain a better perspective once you remove the turmoil from your life.

Thanks for sharing your story. It will help others as you move forward.


----------



## warlock07

you are feeding her drama IMO. Do you want her back?


----------



## hard_to_detach

Lovemytruck said:


> HTD,
> 
> Good to see an update.
> 
> I would think that your path to a D would still be wise.
> 
> You have been through hell. I would bet the farm that you will come to a point in time where you realize you deserve better. Cliche' but true in this case.
> 
> Honestly is this crap, and who she is worth your time and money? Tell me you can do better. YOU CAN DO BETTER!!!
> 
> You "love" her still. Put it aside for now. Move on, and re-assess "love" after you are single for a few months. Spouses can, and sometimes should be replaced.
> 
> So much for my cheerleading. I would hope that you can gain a better perspective once you remove the turmoil from your life.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your story. It will help others as you move forward.


Yes, I am going through with the divorce. Perhaps I am feeding her drama a bit. I am just trying to keep things on a good level until this thing is final. I know I can do better but it will be hard to completely move on until she is out of my house. To complicate things, her mom is starting divorce proceedings and her and her husband just sold their house. That had been an option for my wife to move out but now her mom is moving in with her son and daughter in-law so my stbx still has no job and nowhere to live and her inheritance money is rapidly running out.


----------



## tom67

Stay out friday and saturday if you can get a motel room let her wonder and when you come back sunday you know what will happen...fun time. but seriously give her a taste of what being a single mom is all about.


----------



## Shaggy

Htd. Get a lock for the bedroom door and get that D done ASAP.

As I read your revelations about swapping, her cheating over the years and everything else that has gone one, its clear there is no chance for anyone being married to her. She's just way to probe to being unfaithful and disloyal.

I feel sorry for your kids in this. The last thing either one of them needs in their life is a wife of their own like her. 

Has she ever been loyal or faithful to any partner ever?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

warlock07 said:


> you are feeding her drama IMO. Do you want her back?


Yes, this is exactly how I feel. I'd be careful, You almost sound like you are reconciling.

Waterworks and a sympathetic judge could turn this ugly for you, be careful.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Tom, already done. Going out Friday night with a friend. This is the chick that told my stbx she would take me in a heartbeat if I wasn't married. I am picking her up and since she lives closer to where we will be, she said I can spend the night so I don't have to drive home after drinking. 

Shaggy, she was faithful to me for the first 9 years of our marriage. I am sure of that too.

philly, I am not reconciling and we don't have to appear before a judge, just have to wait two more months. We got the confirmation from the court that it was filed and they gave an estimate of Nov 15th for the final date.


----------



## Lovemytruck

Well, I like the new HTD.

The little emotional bumps with your STBXW will happen, but you sound like you are on the way to a better life.

D is hard, but you can do it.

I would be optimistically cautious as you move back into dating. Your experience should help you find a better woman.

Take care, and enjoy the new future!


----------



## LostViking

Yeah put a lock on that door. Congrats on the new lady friend. You dog.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

Friday night went well. Nothing happened though. She did invite me for a weekend out of town at a cabin in the mountains for Oktoberfest. She has a couple friends who rented the cabin and they have more room so she invited me to go. I can tell she is being careful because she is still friends with my stbx but the fact that she invited me for a weekend means things are headed in the right direction.

So last weekend was my stbx's time with the boys but her mom is going through a divorce and moving so she needed her help. I told her I would cover her weekend because her mom needed her and she can cover a weekend when I need her to. So after the weekend she asks how Friday night went so I told her and let her know that our friend invited me out of town for the weekend on a weekend I have the boys. She said that is fine but the weekend before she was going to make plans then. I told her we weren't swapping weekends, just covering them for each other because I had plans the weekend before too...she didn't like that very much. Later that night she got really pissy and started going off on me for some stupid trivial thing. At first I was confused then I realized she did not like me going out Friday night with a female companion and REALLY doesn't like the idea of me going away for a weekend with her.

I may not even go that weekend, money is tight and I don't know if I can swing it, but I really want to go. She keeps making comments about me going out and dating and hooking up with someone new like she is ok with it but this is exactly the reaction I expected when she is faced with the reality of it.


----------



## Dyokemm

HardtoDetach,

Yep.

And its just gonna get worse as she realizes you are slipping further away from her.


----------



## bandit.45

She's playing it cool. Inside she's raging. 

Keep it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> She's playing it cool. Inside she's raging.
> 
> Keep it up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly :iagree::iagree:


----------



## hard_to_detach

She IS playing it pretty cool but I can tell she is raging and making herself crazy. She still has feelings for POSOM, but I can tell she is questioning those feelings and coming out of the fog a little about how she feels about me. She hasn't said anything about wanting to R and I don't think she will but I can tell those thoughts have gone through her head. I think she realizes though that R would not be a good thing and we need to go our separate ways but I can tell she is very conflicted about it.

On a side note, POSOM has not contacted her in any capacity for over a week and she hasn't reached out to him. After their last fight, even the people that supported her, told her what they thought of him and how he is showing his true colors. This is all stuff she has heard from me, her dad, and some of our friends, but since these people supported her it somehow means more to her now.


----------



## Jasel

hard_to_detach said:


> I may not even go that weekend, money is tight and I don't know if I can swing it, but I really want to go. She keeps making comments about me going out and dating and hooking up with someone new like she is ok with it but this is exactly the reaction I expected when she is faced with the reality of it.












Oh **** he looks serious!! I think you better go and have fun


----------



## happyman64

HTD
Maybe she is coming out the fog.

But I hope you see just how stupid she really is.

I hope you go away for that cabin weekend. I also hope you get lucky.

When you meet the next one make sure she has a job, has her mind/morals intact and blows your STBX away.

It won't be too hard.

HM


----------



## bandit.45

hard_to_detach said:


> She IS playing it pretty cool but I can tell she is raging and making herself crazy. She still has feelings for POSOM, but I can tell she is questioning those feelings and coming out of the fog a little about how she feels about me. She hasn't said anything about wanting to R and I don't think she will but I can tell those thoughts have gone through her head. I think she realizes though that R would not be a good thing and we need to go our separate ways but I can tell she is very conflicted about it.
> 
> On a side note, POSOM has not contacted her in any capacity for over a week and she hasn't reached out to him. After their last fight, even the people that supported her, told her what they thought of him and how he is showing his true colors. This is all stuff she has heard from me, her dad, and some of our friends, but since these people supported her it somehow means more to her now.


Just keep moving forward towards building a new life for yourself. Your WW is in a puddle, looking for a way to stand up without her panties falling down. 

Move on, date, fvck, live your life. Tell her to mind her business and stay out of yours. Show her you care less what happens to her, and that her positive opinions about you dating new women are meaningless .


----------



## weightlifter

Well well well WELL!!!!

Lookie here!!!! The wayward is finding it....

:drumroll:

HARD TO DETACH!


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> Well well well WELL!!!!
> 
> Lookie here!!!! The wayward is finding it....
> 
> :drumroll:
> 
> HARD TO DETACH!


hahahahahahaha

Thanks weightlifter.....that gave me a good laugh. I guess she is and it will only get worse. I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks for the encouragement.


----------



## tom67

She might handcuff you so you can't leave.


----------



## weightlifter

tom67 said:


> She might handcuff you so you can't leave.


PROMISES PROMISES!

Remember HTD and the Mrs have already done a few things not in many peoples history.


----------



## weightlifter

Sounds like you have lived up to your name.

HARD to detach.
NOT
Impossible to detach.

Look where you were post #1.

Look where you ARE now!

Id still kill to see her emails right after Barney Fife gave in and broke it off.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Yesterday my oldest son turned 16. We went out for his birthday dinner like we always do and on the way there he was telling us all the people he received happy birthday texts from. I mentioned that he should log onto Facebook when we get home to respond to all his friends. He said he doesn't like FB. We asked him why and his answer made me smile and I didn't look but I'm sure my stbx cringed. He said "FB is lame, it is just for old people to hook with with old boyfriends and girlfriends from high school." hahaha Smart kid!

On another note, I am conflicted on how to handle a situtation. My D will be final Nov 15th but my stbx still does not have a job and is not making any moves to find one as she is preoccupied with college. I need to give her a deadline to move out but can't decide when. My friend says Nov 15th is when she should move out but if I'm feeling generous I can tell her Dec 1st. I have been playing with the idea of Jan 1st, just a clean start to the new year and ease the transition for the boys by having Christmas together.

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> Yesterday my oldest son turned 16. We went out for his birthday dinner like we always do and on the way there he was telling us all the people he received happy birthday texts from. I mentioned that he should log onto Facebook when we get home to respond to all his friends. He said he doesn't like FB. We asked him why and his answer made me smile and I didn't look but I'm sure my stbx cringed. He said "FB is lame, it is just for old people to hook with with old boyfriends and girlfriends from high school." hahaha Smart kid!
> 
> On another note, I am conflicted on how to handle a situtation. My D will be final Nov 15th but my stbx still does not have a job and is not making any moves to find one as she is preoccupied with college. I need to give her a deadline to move out but can't decide when. My friend says Nov 15th is when she should move out but if I'm feeling generous I can tell her Dec 1st. I have been playing with the idea of Jan 1st, just a clean start to the new year and ease the transition for the boys by having Christmas together.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


Yes give her to Nov 15th.

Why?

Because your wife will be lucky if she is out of the house by 2014!

And might might be a good experience for her not to be home for the Thanksgiving and Xmas holidays.

HM


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

hard_to_detach said:


> Yesterday my oldest son turned 16. We went out for his birthday dinner like we always do and on the way there he was telling us all the people he received happy birthday texts from. I mentioned that he should log onto Facebook when we get home to respond to all his friends. He said he doesn't like FB. We asked him why and his answer made me smile and I didn't look but I'm sure my stbx cringed. He said "FB is lame, it is just for old people to hook with with old boyfriends and girlfriends from high school." hahaha Smart kid!
> 
> On another note, I am conflicted on how to handle a situtation. My D will be final Nov 15th but my stbx still does not have a job and is not making any moves to find one as she is preoccupied with college. I need to give her a deadline to move out but can't decide when. My friend says Nov 15th is when she should move out but if I'm feeling generous I can tell her Dec 1st. I have been playing with the idea of Jan 1st, just a clean start to the new year and ease the transition for the boys by having Christmas together.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


HTD, she asked for this and now she has it. Tell her out on the 15th. She can go work and support herself like every other 'single' person does. Starbucks, etc. Not your problem. Tell her get out.


----------



## angstire

:iagree:


----------



## TDSC60

Out by Nov 15th or else she starts paying you to rent the guest room and half the water/power bills. And she buys and prepares her own food (unless you invite her to a have a meal with you and the kids.)

She is then a renter with no rights to anything in your home.

Seriously - get her out by Nov 15th. It will be better for you and the kids if she is not there everyday.


----------



## turnera

Say the 15th, and after that you can start harassing her so much that she WANTS to get out.


----------



## LostViking

You have an implied lease agreement I think. I believe you have to give her 30 days written notice. The soonest you can get her out therefore would be around November 26. 

Am I wrong oh ye armchair TAM lawyers?


----------



## weightlifter

What does your agreement say?
What does your lawyer say?
Is she getting alimony?

What is in the water in seattle? We got lotta peeps from seattle.


----------



## tom67

Talk to Disenchanted he's out there.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD. Realize also your kids are watching very very closely how you handle this. She IS their mother and yes they are mad at her still. What you do here WILL STICK in their minds FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. IT WILL AFFECT THEM IN FUTURE RELATIONSHIPS!

You have a very very narrow path to walk sir! Pushing properly which MUST BE DONE, vs the very important message of tempering mercy with strength.

Edit did my post count go down by about 80 in the last day?


----------



## Sol

HTD, I just wanted to say that this is one of the most balanced/mature approaches out of the many threads I have read here. I'm hoping things only get better for you here on out.


----------



## hard_to_detach

The last three weeks have been crazy!

First was the wedding I was in. Bridesmaid I walked with was actually fairly attractive and single. The other groomsman had his wife sitting at the bridal table with him but my stbx wasn't. She did not like that and ended up leaving early and was pissed at me for not understanding why she was upset. (huh? we are getting divorced, why would they seat her next to me?) I think she was also still having a hard time with it because she thought she was going to marry her POSOM.

That next Monday she was sick and I got sick too but the worst was that our 16 year old was a dumbass and brought a knife to school and got expelled. I had to leave work to be home when the deputy dropped him off. We spent the next two weeks meeting with the school and getting him into therapy as a condition of them letting him back in. Thankfully they let him back. As a result of this, she dropped out of college to be home with him while he was out of school so she has been super depressed about that.

I went out a couple weeks ago with some friends and one of them was a very attractive, recently single woman. At the end of the night I was driving her home and she asked what happened with us because my stbx didn't really tell her. I told her the whole situation and she was pissed that my stbx had withheld the fact that she had left me and started a relationshiop. When I walked in the door at home at 2am, stbx was still up and looked like she had been crying all night. She did not like that I was out having fun without her and especially with this woman. Later that week I noticed a big bruise on her arm and asked her about it and she dismissed the topic. A couple days later after she had a couple glasses of wine I got her to tell me that the night I went out she was feeling really low and had been literally beating herself up. She had bruises on her legs, chest, and arms....really bad bruises.

I have felt over the last month like she has been slowly trying to work her way back to me but I keep staying the course. Between that and dropping out of school, being dumped by POSOM, and son getting expelled, she is a mess. So this last weekend I made plans with some friends to come over next weekend when he has his daughter for the weekend. My stbx got pissed at me because she will be out of town that weekend with friends. She's pissed because she says I planned it on purpose for the weekend she was gone to exclude her. I told her it was because that is the weekend our friend has his daughter and I am making plans for me and the boys. She wanted me to have them come this weekend instead, I told her he doesn't have his daughter this weekend and that was the point of getting together and that if she wants to do something with them then she needs to call them and set it up. We are divorcing, I don't need to consider her in my plans.

She stormed out after that fight and then it just got worse. She sent the female friend a message confronting her as to why she was ignoring her and the friend told her she found out why we were getting divorced and was pissed that my stbx had not told her the truth. My stbx took it to mean that she was pissed over her leaving me, even though the woman said she would not judge her for that but that it had to do with her not being truthful about it. Well, my stbx came out of her room and yelled at me about it and how I am trying to turn everyone against her. She slammed the door and proceeded to take every picture she could find in a frame of me and her and cut them up, including all of our wedding photos. I told her the living arrangements are not working anymore and she needs to get a job and move out, she has till November 15th.

That was Sunday night....she hasn't said a single word to me since. It is very tense in the house and the oldest commented on it. I told him I was sorry and that is why people getting divorced shouldn't live together. Of course, she is still not looking for a job. I don't know what is going through her head, I think she is hoping the silent treatment will make me come to her to reconcile. Who knows. She is so out of it right now that it would not surprise me if she committed suicide. She won't seek professional help and has shut almost everyone out and won't talk. I don't know what to do now.

Sorry for the novel. I'm sure I am leaving some stuff out but this should give you the general idea of where things are at in my life.


----------



## weightlifter

Ugh why did she drop out. Bad move on her part. That part alone i kinda feel bad for her on.

Has Jerry Springer called yet?


----------



## weightlifter

Dbl post.


----------



## tainted

hard_to_detach said:


> Later that week I noticed a big bruise on her arm and asked her about it and she dismissed the topic. A couple days later after she had a couple glasses of wine I got her to tell me that the night I went out she was feeling really low and had been literally beating herself up. She had bruises on her legs, chest, and arms....really bad bruises.
> 
> She is so out of it right now that it would not surprise me if she committed suicide.


Get her help NOW. She isn't good your for son right now but forcing her out might just drive her over the edge. Look up ways to get her involuntary committed.


----------



## hard_to_detach

She missed two weeks of class and couldn't make it up. It cost her $1k in tuition and books. I told her to talk to the dean and explain why she had to drop out and they may just apply her tuition and book rentals to next quarter....do you think she even took the time to do that....NO. She is so depressed just getting out of bed and taking the kids to school is all she can manage. I am still putting up with this because I only have a month till this thing is done and I don't want her to get a wild hair and change the divorce agreement.

Once it is final, I will be free to kick her to the curb....oh, and call POSOM's commanding officer and clue him in on what transpired over the summer. I also found out he applied with another department over here so I have another email or phone call to make there too. I will do what I can to make his life as difficult as possible....it's only fair right?


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Absolutely it is fair. This scumbag POS deserves everything you can rain down on his head.

I posted back at the beginning of your thread that your foolish WW was stuck in some type of juvenile fantasy BS with this s**tbag and would eventually come to realize all she had thrown away for his worthless a**. Never thought it would happen this fast, but she is definitely reaping what she has sown now.

What about POS?

He has suffered nothing for destroying the lives of other people.

He just continues to sail through life uncaring about the destruction he has left in his wake.

This is a clear example of why I believe a BS should NEVER let the POS AP go on consequence free.

Many of these poor excuses for human beings are just like this scumbag. Self-centered a**wipes who blithely destroy other people's lives and then continue on their narcissistic paths.

Yes, the stupid WS participated in the destruction, and is the only person who actually betrayed the BS. 

But the WS pays the price of having their lives torn apart too by being divorced with all the attendant financial and custody consequences that come with it.

Even WS who are given the gift of R suffer the consequences of the actions they have committed.

But POSs like your WW's OM suffer nothing UNLESS the BS rains as much h**l as possible down on them.

So I say go for it...do as much damage as possible to this POS as you can HTD.


----------



## weightlifter

HTD s wife HAS paid. HARD.
OM... Nada.

CAN i have the cheaterville link when you do it? I have a nice little collection.

Need help writing it to be factual and looking like a news report.... My Klingon side stands ready to assist! 

Revenge is a dish served ice cold.

Echoing above. It will hurt your kids immeasurably if she harms hersef further. The self destruction... Plus when she gets out it may help her qualify for education programs.

I am pretty good with both gimp and audacity for picture and audio encancement.


----------



## sammy3

In the past 2.5 yrs, I almost took my own life twice from the severe depression I find myself drowning in. I never in my life was depressed, nor understood it. I'm still some days on shaky ground, so please, be mindful of your stbxw, as it's your children that will forever live w that memory. 

If it werent for my son, and the promise I made that I will wait one more day, when it seems there's no other way out, depression would win. 

~sammy


----------



## turnera

My DD23 has had friend problems her whole life (long story). In the past few years, she's been maturing and culling people based on whether they are good or bad for her. She has a friend who's making a HUGE mess of her life. DD23 has consistently been the ONLY person who keeps checking up on this self-destructive person. But she finally had enough. Why? Because this friend lied to her - lied to DD23, the ONLY person who was still helping her. DD23 told her this, too, that if she will lie to her, she can have nothing to do with her.

I'm proud of my daughter, for maintaining her dignity and principles.


----------



## LongWalk

hard_to_detach said:


> I am back from the cruise and had a great time. Sorry to say though, I had a backslide. The first day we spent apart but we knew we needed to get past that so that we could make it good for the boys, so the second day we spent together and ended up talking a bit and got to a point where we were able to get along. The third and fourth days went well and we all had a great time together. We posted some pics on FB and of course I made sure to tag her in them so that the POSOM would see and it worked.
> 
> After talking to him on day 4 I could tell she was trying to distance herself from me and got pretty drunk that night. We had met some cool people and were hanging out with them and when we left them to head back to the cabins she started ripping into me about some things that have been going on. The next day I was distant and she asked why so I told her about the previous night and she didn't remember and apologized. I also told her that it was apparent by her actions after talking to him that she was being distant.
> 
> She ended up telling me that he did not like the fact that she and I were getting along and having a good time. She posted a pic of me and the boys and he didn't like that. This guy is a real piece of work. He knew about this trip all along and he has a problem with her having a good time? *She was really upset and ended up crying most of the day. At one point we were standing on deck looking at the scenery and she put her arm around me and said "I'm sorry but I know I won't get a chance to do this again." and reached up and kissed me on the lips. We spent some time apart after that but ended up talking that evening about everything that has happened over the last couple months and she told me some details about their relationship. The blinders are coming off and she is realizing he isn't all that great. She even told me that I am way better in bed.
> 
> We both got pretty drunk that night and ended up going back to her cabin and one thing led to another. Sorry to say I did not stop her advances. She feels guilty, like she cheated on him, so I told her that she didn't do anything wrong because technically we are still married. She said "if that is the case, then that means that I am cheating on you with him", so she got slapped with that reality. *We didn't let it affect the rest of the trip and had a good time, but we ended up being to cozy and familiar. There were a few times where she would reach out and hold my hand while walking. Obviously it felt good but I knew that it wasn't anything more than comfort and doesn't change anything. The divorce will happen and we will eventually go our separate ways. We got home and are sleeping in our separate bedrooms and life goes on.
> 
> He boyfriend doesn't want to talk to her for a while....and he doesn't even know what went on. Just based on a few pictures he is pissed off. Oh, and it doesn't help that he didn't get the job he was trying for, so he is in a rough spot and is pushing her away.
> 
> This trip was good and bad. Good in that it forced us to spend time together and work out some issues so that we can continue on this path and make it as good as we can for the boys. Bad in that it broke down my wall a little, just enough that she touched my emotions a bit and I am having to fight back to where I was before the trip.


One of the most brain curdling TAM passages ever.


----------



## LongWalk

hard_to_detach said:


> Were you watching? That is exactly how it went for part of it.
> 
> I didn't want any details about her and him but I got the impression that she barely got one O while with him when she is used to having a minimum of two with me but usually three to five big O's.
> 
> Believe me, I have been thinking about using this to my advantage. For me, just the fact that it happened and he was all pissed off over some pics on FB is enough.
> 
> Ok....I held out on you guys....it happened the next night too. She tried to say she knew I needed it but she also acted like she hadn't gotten any in months either. I think she wanted to have a reminder of what she was leaving behind and is realizing how good it really was.
> 
> The older gentleman that we talked to told her, "if you find someone who rocks your world in bed and is someone you can live with and love you should hold on to them", she said that I do rock her world more than she realized and he told her, "then you are an idiot if you are throwing him away for this 'feeling' you think you need". She has been pondering that discussion ever since and it was an hour after talking to him that we ended up going to town.


----------



## Headspin

Not looked at everything in this but you surely can see you are plan B and tbf from what I have seen have always been that. 

There's only one way to go


----------



## LongWalk

hard_to_detach said:


> The last three weeks have been crazy!
> 
> First was the wedding I was in. Bridesmaid I walked with was actually fairly attractive and single. The other groomsman had his wife sitting at the bridal table with him but my stbx wasn't. She did not like that and ended up leaving early and was pissed at me for not understanding why she was upset. (huh? we are getting divorced, why would they seat her next to me?) I think she was also still having a hard time with it because she thought she was going to marry her POSOM.
> 
> *Way back, a couple of months ago, you noted that stbx is intelligent. I don't doubt you on that. What is so confounding about her illogical way of thinking is that the flaw is often the same. She hopes for a positive outcome (from her perspective) when reason speaks against it.
> 
> Everyone was supposed to treat her like your wife even as you were on the verge of divorce. Intellectually, she would admit that is impossible. After all she wanted to have sex with other people and knew that she had to divorce to do that. But emotionally she could not digest it.
> 
> This kind of dysfunctional thinking occurs because something in the grey matter is not 100%, or because the person experienced some terrible examples of dysfunctional behavior in childhood. I was emotionally abused as child. Now at the age of 55 by reading TAM I can see how I have repeated the same behavior. It's just bizarre to realize parents pass this stuff down to their kids.
> 
> This not to say we are not responsible for our decisions/actions. However, some of us insist on beating ourselves up. Your wife literally beat herself when she realized her wishful thinking delivered a crop that would not feed her; neither body nor soul will find sustenance in her post D life. And the starvation began while she was eating cake. She sees it. *
> 
> That next Monday she was sick and I got sick too but the worst was that our 16 year old was a dumbass and brought a knife to school and got expelled. I had to leave work to be home when the deputy dropped him off. We spent the next two weeks meeting with the school and getting him into therapy as a condition of them letting him back in. Thankfully they let him back. As a result of this, she dropped out of college to be home with him while he was out of school so she has been super depressed about that.
> 
> I went out a couple weeks ago with some friends and one of them was a very attractive, recently single woman. At the end of the night I was driving her home and she asked what happened with us because my stbx didn't really tell her. I told her the whole situation and she was pissed that my stbx had withheld the fact that she had left me and started a relationshiop. When I walked in the door at home at 2am, stbx was still up and looked like she had been crying all night. She did not like that I was out having fun without her and especially with this woman. Later that week I noticed a big bruise on her arm and asked her about it and she dismissed the topic. A couple days later after she had a couple glasses of wine I got her to tell me that the night I went out she was feeling really low and had been literally beating herself up. She had bruises on her legs, chest, and arms....really bad bruises.
> 
> I have felt over the last month like she has been slowly trying to work her way back to me but I keep staying the course.
> 
> *Slowly, why? Because her logical facilities tell her that you are done and she doesn't want to absorb that fact in its finality. So she is tickling you and hoping you will smile at which point she feel encouraged to try and change the directions of things.
> 
> She would be on her knees begging but she knows that won't work. She is not dumb, but she has had such difficulty accepting truths that have crossed her mind and been discounted or discarded, although they were clearly the only rational choice, e.g., demanding divorce will result in divorce.*
> 
> Between that and dropping out of school, being dumped by POSOM, and son getting expelled, she is a mess. So this last weekend I made plans with some friends to come over next weekend when he has his daughter for the weekend. My stbx got pissed at me because she will be out of town that weekend with friends. She's pissed because she says I planned it on purpose for the weekend she was gone to exclude her. I told her it was because that is the weekend our friend has his daughter and I am making plans for me and the boys. She wanted me to have them come this weekend instead, I told her he doesn't have his daughter this weekend and that was the point of getting together and that if she wants to do something with them then she needs to call them and set it up. We are divorcing, I don't need to consider her in my plans.
> 
> She stormed out after that fight and then it just got worse. She sent the female friend a message confronting her as to why she was ignoring her and the friend told her she found out why we were getting divorced and was pissed that my stbx had not told her the truth. My stbx took it to mean that she was pissed over her leaving me, even though the woman said she would not judge her for that but that it had to do with her not being truthful about it. Well, my stbx came out of her room and yelled at me about it and how I am trying to turn everyone against her. She slammed the door and proceeded to take every picture she could find in a frame of me and her and cut them up, including all of our wedding photos. *As Mavash always says, give defiant people what they ask for.*I told her the living arrangements are not working anymore and she needs to get a job and move out, she has till November 15th.
> 
> That was Sunday night....she hasn't said a single word to me since. It is very tense in the house and the oldest commented on it. I told him I was sorry and that is why people getting divorced shouldn't live together. Of course, she is still not looking for a job. I don't know what is going through her head, I think she is hoping the silent treatment will make me come to her to reconcile.
> 
> *And now if you said to her you would take her back if she promised never to lie to you or fvck other men and women behind your back, she would sob "yes" with all her heart. And she might keep those promises, as well as she could. But she is broken inside. What joy would there been that for you? Moreover, her dysfunction would surface in other ways and you don't want to live with it anymore.*
> 
> Who knows. She is so out of it right now that it would not surprise me if she committed suicide. She won't seek professional help and has shut almost everyone out and won't talk. I don't know what to do now.
> 
> *All you can do is go to her and say "we need help" and check her into psychiatric in patient but that is not a pleasant place to be... she needs a doctor.*
> 
> Sorry for the novel. I'm sure I am leaving some stuff out but this should give you the general idea of where things are at in my life.
> 
> *If only she had listened to the wise dude on the ship. She knew he was right but she wanted to try her luck. Tragic. And the horrible thing is you still love her in some way. And what you have written is a novel. *


----------



## hard_to_detach

Longwalk....your analysis is sound. She was actually a very logical person and some of that still shows through. She did experience dysfunction as a child and it still affects her today even if she won't admit it. She slowly tries to worm her way back in because she cannot bring herself to admit her wrongdoing and knows I will not take her back but she thinks she can sneak her way back in.

If I were to tell her today that I want her back and we can work it out, she might tell me everything I want to hear but I know it would rear it's ugly head again in the future. I have talked to a lot of people who have been through what we have and quite a few who ended up back together. One couple we have known for a while just a couple weeks ago told me they went through a similar situation except it was the husband. They split up for a couple years and went their own ways but ended up back together and have been for 20 years. They told me to move on and work on myself and if she does the same, they think we will end up back together. My stbx will need to do some major work on herself for me to even entertain that idea down the road but you never know.

I have told people recently that I am not closing the book on us, just this chapter. I am going to read some different books for a while and if I don't find one I like I will consider picking up this one again and starting a new chapter. I think it is an apt analogy.


----------



## LongWalk

You are a philosopher. 

Good luck getting your wife to a psychiatrist.


----------



## manticore

you know, reading your thread is obvious that your wife confuses, being infatuated and true love, she seeks the high of the hormones thinking that is love,* i do believe that she loves you*, she don't understand the difference between love and infatuation, she believes the hollywood crap that if you love someone you live in bliss the rest of your life, she makes me remember the article i am about to quote:

_
"Infatuation describes the intense range of feelings present at the beginning of most relationships; sweaty palms, rapidly beating heart, butterflies in the stomach. The world is a better, more beautiful place because object of your affection is with you. Every time you touch is thrilling, you remember every conversation, and your thoughts revolve around them. In more common terms, this is a crush. Crushes are a very real, normal part of human life. Everyone experiences at least one crush at some point or another in their lives.

Infatuation is caused by a chemical reaction in the body. The hormones released accounts for some of the feelings of elation. In truth, you are "high" on dopamine. This is an important evolutionary response to meeting a potential future mate. These hormones assure that two people will spend enough time together to possibly produce children, thus ensuring the survival of the species. 

Love, on the other hand, is a calmer, more mature feeling. It is a sense of stability. Love is still exciting, at times. It can change day-to-day. Love takes work. The feelings are not supported by the highs of hormones, but by a shared love and respect for each other. Love is what exists after infatuation fades, if you are lucky.

Infatuation and love are different in many ways. While both result in pleasant feelings, the feeling of infatuation is more intense than the feeling of love. Love may not be as intense, but it is usually a much deeper emotion. Relationships that start as infatuation can mature into love.

One of the biggest differences between infatuation and love is how long each can last for. Infatuation can last, at most, several months before it starts to fade. Love, on the other hand, is capable of lasting fifty years or more, if both people in the relationship work for it. Infatuation is almost effortless. Anything put into the relationship is because you want to. Everything you do for the other person brings great pleasure for you, too. This isn’t always the case in love. You do things that you don’t want to do, things that you will get no pleasure from, because it is the fair thing to do. Love is about compromise.

Infatuation and love are both different in the amount of unpleasant tension that is part of the relationship some days. Infatuation discourages any real disagreements from taking place. You both are on your best behavior during all the time you spend together. Anything that could cause a discrepancy to the idea of a perfect relationship is avoided. Everything is perfect, and no one wants to mess that up.

Love allows people to be who they really are. While arguments aren’t encouraged, they happen. Sometimes they happen a lot, especially in times of stress. Love is admitting that your partner has faults, and so do you, but that is okay. You have realistic expectations of each other. Love is accepting.

Infatuation and love are two separate emotions, and there are many differences between them. They are, however, similar in some ways. Infatuation is like a shiny new pair of dress shoes, where as love is the comfy old sneakers you’ve had for years. Infatuation is fun, while it lasts. Eventually, though, the night out ends, and you slip into the sneakers that fit perfectly, even if they are starting to give at the seams and the tread is worn out. This is what happens in relationships. As the brilliance of infatuation fades, couples move into a contented place where, even if there are problems, they know they can depend on one another to provide the love and support they need. That is the difference between infatuation and love."_

you know what the sad part is?, the hollywood crap is not that wrong in all what it says, love does win in the end, but by the time the WWS open the eyes he/she had already hurth so much his/her BS and family that is impossible to save the relationship.

your STXW is probably wondering why she is not allowed to wear her favorite sneakers anymore and that is a major contributor in her depression.

I agree with other comments you should look help for her, talk to her, seek maybe medical help to get antidepressants, talk to her family for them to be aware of the situation, but you can't let the situation be 100% your responsability, you have done nothing wrong to contribute in her actual state of mind.


----------



## hard_to_detach

manticore said:


> you know, reading your thread is obvious that your wife confuses, being infatuated and true love, she seeks the high of the hormones thinking that is love,* i do believe that she loves you*, she don't understand the difference between love and infatuation, she believes the hollywood crap that if you love someone you live in bliss the rest of your life


I agree. I know she still loves me and is very confused. I wish I could show her that article and that she could read it and understand the difference but I know she can't. That is something she will need to discover on her own and there is a very real possibility that she never will.

Not much happened over the weekend. She broke her silent treatment but is still acting very angry. Once the boys go to bed she locks herself in her room. I chuckled last night as she came out of her room to get some wine because it struck me at how much energy it must take for her to display the disdain and anger she has toward me. It must be exhausting. It is also ironic that SHE is the one to feel this way.


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> I agree. I know she still loves me and is very confused. I wish I could show her that article and that she could read it and understand the difference but I know she can't. That is something she will need to discover on her own and there is a very real possibility that she never will.
> 
> Not much happened over the weekend. She broke her silent treatment but is still acting very angry. Once the boys go to bed she locks herself in her room. I chuckled last night as she came out of her room to get some wine because it struck me at how much energy it must take for her to display the disdain and anger she has toward me. It must be exhausting. *It is also ironic that SHE is the one to feel this way*.


You can say that again HTD.

But very typical of the cheater mentality.

All that energy she expends at being mad could be spent talking to a shrink.

But hey! She is not the one with a problem is she? 
:lol:


----------



## Chaparral

You may get anothr chance to help her. If she hurts herself again and leaves a mark, call 911 and tell them she is suicidal. If it were me I would call a suicide hotline and discuss the situation even now, especially if she still has bruises.

Beware and keep your var handy, it may occur to her to blame the bruises on you. She may act irrationally and be sorry later. Then again she may not be sorry, she may feel justified.

I would find the original source of the article above and give it to her when loses more of her anger, what could it hurt? Even long shots occasionally come in.

Good luck.


----------



## manticore

hard_to_detach said:


> She slammed the door and proceeded to take every picture she could find in a frame of me and her and cut them up, including all of our wedding photos. I told her the living arrangements are not working anymore and she needs to get a job and move out, she has till November 15th.


she will regret this so much later in time, even if you are gonna divorce this kind of momentos are to kept for the kids to remember how their family was at some point. (vacations, travels, special days).

At this point even if she suggest R, I will advice you not to do it, she have to fix herself and her issues before anything else.


----------



## sammy3

Htd, 
Just cking on ya... Hoping all is well , as can be expected... :-( 

~sammy


----------



## manticore

hard_to_detach said:


> We are divorcing, I don't need to consider her in my plans.


agreed, by reading your Thread i have the impression that your STBX, thinks that the only thing that will change is that you will live in a different home and date other people. That you will be still as close as before in the way you treat each other, and that you will be able to frecuent the same circle of friends and reunions as buddies, and depend in each other.

it makes me remember in a therapist blog, how she described that a STBXW (she filed divorce) was crying in her office because her STBXH did not wanted to keep their tradition of years. They had luch together (between work) two days a week and talk about everything.

she asked her if she was aware that everything including the trust and the bonding they formed in years will change, and she answered "but he is my bestfriend".


----------



## hard_to_detach

manticore said:


> agreed, by reading your Thread i have the impression that your STBX, thinks that the only thing that will change is that you will live in a different home and date other people. That you will be still as close as before in the way you treat each other, and that you will be able to frecuent the same circle of friends and reunions as buddies, and depend in each other.
> 
> it makes me remember in a therapist blog, how she described that a STBXW (she filed divorce) was crying in her office because her STBXH did not wanted to keep their tradition of years. They had luch together (between work) two days a week and talk about everything.
> 
> she asked her if she was aware that everything including the trust and the bonding they formed in years will change, and she answered "but he is my bestfriend".


You are correct in this....maybe not now. We had another big fight two nights ago. I rearranged my work day so that she could be at the hospital to see her first neice born. Of course it happened in the middle of the night so she came home in the morning and slept most of the day. She went back to the hospital again that night. It is my week with the kids, so no big deal. I made dinner for us, not expecting her to come back for a while but I get a message from her just as we are finishing dinner that she is on her way and asking me to put a couple things on for her, which I did.

She comes in b****ing about how I didn't make them correctly and didn't include something I know she likes. That's when the fight started. We went back and forth over all kinds of issues but in the end she has the audacity to say "I have come to realize that you are not my friend and have never had my back in anything...you have never been a good friend to me." Are you F'ing kidding me?!?!

I have bent over backwards for this woman over the years. The times I didn't "have her back" was because I did not agree with her actions or viewpoint on a matter. I will admit that in the beginning of our relationship I could have done a better job of defending her to my family, but that is ancient history. She still expects me to have her back. I pointed out that we are getting a divorce and she left me for another man, why would I have her back. I was trying to be civil and be friends but it's not easy and when she comes home and treats me the way she did that night I'm not going to take it.

I kept asking when she is going to get a job and move out and she doesn't think she should because of the issues we are having with our oldest son. I told her that we will just have to deal with it as best we can but she needs to go and should have thought about all of this before she decided to blow up our marriage. I said she didn't think about it because she only had one thing on her mind. I'm sorry to say I lowered myself to her level but it felt good to get in some good jabs. The final blow was when I said "If he hadn't dumped your ass, you would have been fighting to get out of this house by now." By the look on her face I couldn't tell if she was about to break out crying or punch me. She got in my face and pointed her finger about an inch from my nose and said to stop and don't say another word and then stormed out and slammed the door to the room.

After she calmed down a bit I got her to talk and tried to reason with her and tell her that I know she is not in a good place but she can't just crawl into a hole and do nothing. She NEEDS TO GET A JOB! She says she will start looking for anything, night work if she has to. She will not admit that how she went about this whole thing was wrong and I told her that she is the only one who thinks that, to which she had no reply. Things are very tense in the house but I feel a little better getting some stuff off my chest. She also made it very clear that we are no longer friends and now she is mourning the loss of our relationship....to which I said, welcome to my world.

My posts always end up being so long.


----------



## happyman64

> "I have come to realize that you are not my friend and have never had my back in anything...you have never been a good friend to me."


What a shame you did not point her to the door and tell her to leave.

Then tell her do not come back until her attitude is in the right place.

Or she can go sleep at OM's house.

Then point out to her that he does not want her and when she is acting like this neither do you.

You have the patience of a saint HTD. And your wife is mourning the loss of your relationship just now?

Where the hell has she been all year????

That woman is plain crazy.

HM


----------



## hard_to_detach

happyman64 said:


> What a shame you did not point her to the door and tell her to leave.
> 
> Then tell her do not come back until her attitude is in the right place.
> 
> Or she can go sleep at OM's house.
> 
> Then point out to her that he does not want her and when she is acting like this neither do you.
> 
> You have the patience of a saint HTD. And your wife is mourning the loss of your relationship just now?
> 
> Where the hell has she been all year????
> 
> That woman is plain crazy.
> 
> HM


Believe me, I want to literally kick her out the front door, but I really need this divorce to be final because the terms are about as good as you can get. She is just now mourning the loss because in her mind we were going to remain close friends. You are not the first person to say she is crazy. Her reaction to my dumping her ass comment made me realize that she is still holding out hope that she will end up with him. She is going to wait until he moves over here to see if they can make it work. It is really very sad. I don't know if she will ever wake up but if she does, she is going to get hit with this many years down the road and I will be totally gone.

Three weeks and counting till this is final.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> Believe me, I want to literally kick her out the front door, but I really need this divorce to be final because the terms are about as good as you can get. She is just now mourning the loss because in her mind we were going to remain close friends. You are not the first person to say she is crazy. Her reaction to my dumping her ass comment made me realize that she is still holding out hope that she will end up with him. She is going to wait until he moves over here to see if they can make it work. It is really very sad. I don't know if she will ever wake up but if she does, *she is going to get hit with this many years down the road *and I will be totally gone.
> 
> Three weeks and counting till this is final.


No...

She won't. Sorry, but cheaters like your wife have too much pride and arrogance to ever take responsibility for their screw-ups. She may end up with this guy and live happily ever after. Or she may end up sad and alone. Doesn't matter. Either way, she will blame you for all the ills that led to the end of the marriage. She has to blame you. Her self image will not acccept any other explanation.


----------



## hard_to_detach

LostViking said:


> No...
> 
> She won't. Sorry, but cheaters like your wife have too much pride and arrogance to ever take responsibility for their screw-ups. She may end up with this guy and live happily ever after. Or she may end up sad and alone. Doesn't matter. Either way, she will blame you for all the ills that led to the end of the marriage. She has to blame you. Her self image will not acccept any other explanation.


Yeah, you're probably right. She comes from a long line of stubborn people, couple that with her pride and she will never admit it to herself. She is definitely trying to blame this on me now.

She is normally a logical person too, but that is gone. In her mind, the day I confronted her and she said she wanted to be with him and we were getting divorced, that was the point she was free to pursue a relationship with him and we were basically divorced. The actual divorce paperwork was a formality in her mind. I told her that if that was the case then she should have moved out the next day or started paying rent, utilities, and every other expense she incurred in my house. Obviously she doesn't see it that way.


----------



## turnera

Sounds like she reached out to him on the way home and he rejected her.


----------



## hard_to_detach

turnera said:


> Sounds like she reached out to him on the way home and he rejected her.


Nope, it has been almost 6 weeks since her last contact with him. No cell phone, email, Facebook, or meetups. He dumped her and has moved on and her pride will not allow her to contact him.


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> Nope, it has been almost 6 weeks since her last contact with him. No cell phone, email, Facebook, or meetups. He dumped her and has moved on and her pride will not allow her to contact him.


That is not stubborn. That is pure crazzzeeeee!!!!!

Run HTD Run...................


----------



## Dyokemm

"She is just now mourning the loss because in her mind we were going to remain close friends."

It never ceases to amaze me that a WS can have this belief.

What F'ing universe do these people live in?

In some odd way I find it even more stupid than the moronic choice to cheat in the first place.


----------



## manticore

hard_to_detach said:


> She also made it very clear that we are no longer friends and now she is mourning the loss of our relationship....to which I said, welcome to my world.
> 
> My posts always end up being so long.


hard_to_detach, you need to go outside and date some women, i have read all your posts so I know you got it in you, I don't know why are you stoping yourself, all your friends and family want you to at least have a mini relationship to fool around a get distracted, (I mean, you even have your kids approval and many fathers have problem dealing with that).

this will also help your Ex to understand that she is not female number one in your life.

so go outside and find your rebound girlfriend.

(no problem with long posts, long posts give a better perspective of the situation).


----------



## doubletrouble

hard_to_detach said:


> She also made it very clear that we are no longer friends and now she is mourning the loss of our relationship....to which I said, welcome to my world.


This was probably the best hit you gave, even if others felt good. She doesn't see the light and doesn't want to take off her heavily-rose-colored glasses. Wow. Stay strong.


----------



## Dimepiece

Why are you still with her??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm

Dimepiece,

He's not...she's still in the house while the D settlement finalizes.

He doesn't want to kick her out and risk her changing her mind before the settlement gets finalized.

If I remember right, it will be final on November 15.


----------



## hard_to_detach

You are correct...18 days and counting. Once it is final I can take action. I am so over this crap. She came home Saturday night to our friend with his daughter and a couple of her friends playing games with me and the boys. She was supposed to be out of town for the weekend but plans fell through so she just went out for her friend's birthday. She comes home at 9pm and is visibly irritated that people are over. She did join in for a while but for me it just ruined the rest of the night. This is the evening she threw a fit over because I was "purposely exluding her" by planning it when she was going to be out of town.

Yesterday she went and hung out with a friend of ours in the afternoon and didn't get back until evening. I could tell something was up when she came home and confirmed it when I texted our friend and acted like I knew what was going on. She confirmed that my stbx got laid by a friend of hers. I know she is going to slvt it up but it drives me nuts that she still lives in my house while doing this. After November 15th it is going to get nasty around my house cause she needs to go.

I have plans made to be out and away from the house almost every day this week. Need to line something up for Wednesday and then my week is full. And for those of you that have been following my story, my self imposed celibacy is over. I'm not planning anything but if things go that way this week I am going for it. I have felt like I need her gone in order to move on but I've come to realize it will be better for me if I start moving on before she moves out.


----------



## BK23

Time to start living again!


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Sounds like this latest bit of s**t behavior has finally got something to 'snap' in your mind.

Good for you. 

I got the sense from your posts that, while you were never going to break and accept any of this behavior from your foolish WW, a part of you WAS watching her closely to see if she would make a monumental effort to save herself and the M....a truly 'come to Jesus' moment for lack of a better way of explaining it.

At that point you could have looked at how you wanted to proceed.

This new info just shows how pathetically lost she truly is.

When you tell her to get out after the 15th, tell her you know about this wh****h behavior and you need her out ASAP because you can't continue to be around her when she acts with so much disrespect towards you.

And if you know the guy, tell him to go F himself if he ever tries to reach out to you again.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I haven't seen him in 2 years but I have a feeling I'll end up running into him soon, just because I'll be more active in that group of friends.

I held back this part because it is nasty but when I went to toss my clothes into the hamper last night I was hit in the face with a very distinct smell when I lifted the lid and right there on top was her jeans and underwear soaked in his swimmers. She is not practicing safe sex....I'm guessing she'll have an STD in no time. She'll really miss my insurance when when needs to take care of that since she gets booted at the end of November.


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> I haven't seen him in 2 years but I have a feeling I'll end up running into him soon, just because I'll be more active in that group of friends.
> 
> I held back this part because it is nasty but when I went to toss my clothes into the hamper last night I was hit in the face with a very distinct smell when I lifted the lid and right there on top was her jeans and underwear soaked in his swimmers. She is not practicing safe sex....I'm guessing she'll have an STD in no time. She'll really miss my insurance when when needs to take care of that since she gets booted at the end of November.


What a class act she is.

Can't she find a nice trailer park to move into and be a fellow predator.....

You have the patience of a saint.

HM


----------



## verpin zal

hard_to_detach said:


> I held back this part because it is nasty but when I went to toss my clothes into the hamper last night I was hit in the face with a very distinct smell when I lifted the lid and right there on top was her jeans and underwear soaked in his swimmers.


Fatal error.. Kernel panic, even.

My divorce-in-process wife to do that..

She would swallow those panties whole.

I applaud your patience.


----------



## warlock07

> I held back this part because it is nasty but when I went to toss my clothes into the hamper last night I was hit in the face with a very distinct smell when I lifted the lid and right there on top was her jeans and underwear soaked in his swimmers. She is not practicing safe sex....I'm guessing she'll have an STD in no time. She'll really miss my insurance when when needs to take care of that since she gets booted at the end of November.


intentional.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:


----------



## LongWalk

> I could tell something was up when she came home and confirmed it when I texted our friend and acted like I knew what was going on. She confirmed that my stbx got laid by a friend of hers.


What was the clue that tipped you off?

There is something about your wife that is so childish and naive. Basically she is alienating people because her behavior is so brazen and self destructive. She lives entirely in the present.

I am afraid she is going to be begging you for help in a few months time. She would like to take a pill that would allow her to be in love with you while you solved her problems. And as soon as she was secure she would stop taking the pill.

I am watching my 18-year-old daughter become an adult woman. It is tricky. Suddenly everything must happen. School, the desire for a boyfriend, a good circle of friends, university applications, her sport, travel, a job, etc. As a parent you try to offer guidance. But some mistakes are inevitable. You can't grow up without some suffering. 

Your wife is not a kid, though. She is regressing to the level of a 16-year-old, and a messed up 16-year-old at that.


----------



## manticore

hard_to_detach said:


> my self imposed celibacy is over. I'm not planning anything but if things go that way this week I am going for it. I have felt like I need her gone in order to move on but I've come to realize it will be better for me if I start moving on before she moves out.


Good for you man, I have been following your story, and i know that you wanted to end all legally before getting involved with someone else, but everyone around you (including us here in the forum) knows that your wife was the one who openly ended the marriage months ago and had no problems divulging the news.

Maybe she is aware that you have done nothing with other women, and that gives her the false idea that she can have you back the moment she decides that she have had enough fun already.

I found really disrespectful the fact that she is making excuses to not leave the house and the kids (using as excuse their current behaviour) when she is acting like a single woman while all of you are still living together, and that is probably part of the reasons the kids are acting abnormaly.


----------



## manticore

kids are not dumb, adults sometimes like to think that they can keep secrets from them but that is just a delusion.

Obviously when your kid told you that you needed to date and get laid, was because he knew her mother was already acting like a single woman, and in his sense of justice found unfair that you were still being loyal to your votes when she was already dating.


----------



## manticore

LongWalk said:


> Your wife is not a kid, though. She is regressing to the level of a 16-year-old, and a messed up 16-year-old at that.


is a shame, i had the hope that after the OM dumping her, she will realize the stupidity of her actions and begin to appreciate her family and Hard_d more, she obviously still have feelings for Hard_d but it really looks like people have to hit rock bottom before getting better.

Hard_d you have already had a lot of patience and you have done more than many STBXH will be willing to do for their STBXW'S, is time to be selfish and began to think in yourself and what is best for you.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Thank you for all the support. I have taken the high road so that I can respect myself when this is all complete but I have also done it to protect my favorable settlement. I am definitely going to start being a little selfish.

She IS acting like a 16 year old girl and is messed up because that is when her life was flipped upside down. I was curious so I looked up her former POSOM on FB last and noticed that they are no longer friends on there. I don't know who dropped who but based on her posts over the last couple weeks I am guessing he got tired of seeing them and severed that tie as well.

Interesting to note that she was being more chatty last night than she has since we had the first big fight two weeks ago. It seems her anger toward me has been softened by getting laid. I think she relishes the knowledge that she has done that and as far as she knows I have no clue. I think she is viewing it as a revenge lay....and while it does sting a little it does not have the same effect it would have before all of this. She is so lost and is going to continue to spiral down the drain.


----------



## happyman64

HTD

If you want to keep things amicable for your settlement why don't you tell her this

"Honey, please keep getting laid by whomever because I like you better when you are in a good mood."

Try that one on her. 

It also tells her that she cannot treat you like a dummy.

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> HTD
> 
> If you want to keep things amicable for your settlement why don't you tell her this
> 
> "Honey, please keep getting laid by whomever because I like you better when you are in a good mood."
> 
> Try that one on her.
> 
> It also tells her that she cannot treat you like a dummy.
> 
> HM


:iagree::lol:


----------



## weightlifter

I honestly feel sorry for her. I see bad bad days ahead and honestly hopes she pulls out of it for your kids sake.

Point of clarification. Your friend confirmed HE laid your stbx or your friend confirmed he knew someone who laid her? If the first... uh kinda uncool by him.

Arent your kids telling you to date already. Then again 17 days and you can say you made it the distance.


----------



## hard_to_detach

weightlifter said:


> I honestly feel sorry for her. I see bad bad days ahead and honestly hopes she pulls out of it for your kids sake.
> 
> Point of clarification. Your friend confirmed HE laid your stbx or your friend confirmed he knew someone who laid her? If the first... uh kinda uncool by him.
> 
> Arent your kids telling you to date already. Then again 17 days and you can say you made it the distance.


I feel sorry for her too. She is so lost and can't understand why she is so depressed and thinks it is because she has been missing out on something by being married to me. I hope she figures it out as well for the kids sake.

No, my stbx spent the afternoon with our friend and SHE confirmed that stbx was laid by another friend in our group. I have only met this guy once but but the rest of the people in this circle of friends know him well. He is actually a really nice guy and I don't hold it against him. I'm sure he was not told the real story and he and I don't have a close connection.

Yeah, they do want me to get out there and have fun. I want to but it would be nice to make it the distance....but if something comes along I am going for it.


----------



## MrHappyHat

warlock07 said:


> intentional.


Ayup. She feels the noose is tightening so she's lashing out.


----------



## MrHappyHat

hard_to_detach said:


> I think she is viewing it as a revenge lay....and while it does sting a little it does not have the same effect it would have before all of this.


She feels powerful because she feels that she's done something that you're not capable of doing (get laid).

She'll feel that way until she finds out that you're having teh sex again. As a consequence, she'll feel small and powerless, and then you know what happens then: bring on the rage!


----------



## MrHappyHat

happyman64 said:


> HTD
> 
> If you want to keep things amicable for your settlement why don't you tell her this
> 
> "Honey, please keep getting laid by whomever because I like you better when you are in a good mood."
> 
> Try that one on her.
> 
> It also tells her that she cannot treat you like a dummy.
> 
> HM


Nah, it tells her that she can influence him with her actions.

Be indifferent.


----------



## weightlifter

If she left the panties at the crotch the first thing to be seen it was intentional.

If there wasnt the other incidents I would say it was typical post break up slvtting. Both sexes do it. Hopefully not into the dozens of partners category.


----------



## hard_to_detach

No, they weren't left with the crotch open, they were just on top with her jeans. I don't think it was intentional.

I am going out tonight and just found out that the guy she did on Sunday will be there. What are the chances? I haven't seen this guy for 2 years and now two days later I have to face him. I was talking to my friend invited me about who is going and he mentioned this guy. I told him what I knew and he said that this guy is a man wh*re who works as a bartender so he brings women home from the bar all the time. I don't have a problem with him being like that, to each his own, but that is nasty for my stbx....STD city. It will be interesting to see how he responds to me being there and the response I get from my stbx once he tells her, because I know he will.

The good thing is that I am bringing the newly single hottie that my stbx got into the fight with 2 weeks ago and dumped as a friend that resulted in our fight and her cutting up our photos. I have a feeling this week is going to be a rough one....good thing I won't be home much.


----------



## LongWalk

hard_to_detach said:


> Thank you for all the support. I have taken the high road so that I can respect myself when this is all complete but I have also done it to protect my favorable settlement. I am definitely going to start being a little selfish.
> 
> She IS acting like a 16 year old girl and is messed up because that is when her life was flipped upside down. I was curious so I looked up her former POSOM on FB last and noticed that they are no longer friends on there. I don't know who dropped who but based on her posts over the last couple weeks I am guessing he got tired of seeing them and severed that tie as well.
> 
> Interesting to note that she was being more chatty last night than she has since we had the first big fight two weeks ago. It seems her anger toward me has been softened by getting laid. I think she relishes the knowledge that she has done that and as far as she knows I have no clue. I think she is viewing it as a revenge lay....and while it does sting a little it does not have the same effect it would have before all of this. She is so lost and is going to continue to spiral down the drain.


You have a lot of insight into her and as you detach you are able to see her as a tragic figure. This says something about your intellect and compassion. Stick with this approach; it will help you to survive. Usually, BS are urged to not be nice guys, but in your situation being a nice guy who has some ability to protect his heart against all the cat scratching is actually very Zen on your part.

She needs counseling and guidance. Is there any adult person in her life who she respects and admires? If you could bring that person on board to influence her perhaps it will help to decelerate the train.


----------



## LostViking

hard_to_detach said:


> The good thing is that *I am bringing the newly single hottie that my stbx got into the fight with 2 weeks ago and dumped as a friend that resulted in our fight and her cutting up our photos. * I have a feeling this week is going to be a rough one....good thing I won't be home much.


Awesome!!! :lol:


----------



## weightlifter

Gonna have to renamed yourself in 17 days to:

Detached


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> Awesome!!! :lol:


Let's get ready to rumble!lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

LongWalk said:


> You have a lot of insight into her and as you detach you are able to see her as a tragic figure. This says something about your intellect and compassion. Stick with this approach; it will help you to survive. Usually, BS are urged to not be nice guys, but in your situation being a nice guy who has some ability to protect his heart against all the cat scratching is actually very Zen on your part.
> 
> She needs counseling and guidance. Is there any adult person in her life who she respects and admires? If you could bring that person on board to influence her perhaps it will help to decelerate the train.


Thank you for the compliment. I _am_ a nice guy....too nice as I've come to learn. I read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" which has helped me to recognize the flaws in my personality that led to where I am now. From the beginning though I have said that I won't let her betrayal change me. I still will be a nice guy but am now equipped with the knowledge to protect myself.

She has cut off or shutout anyone who tries to reason with her or give her advice, even her parents. I have thought about reaching out to her sister in-law who she has talked to and spent the most time with over the last few months. She has always wanted a sister and feels very close to her and has always been jealous of my relationship with her brother's wife because we always got along really well. Nothing innapropriate, just two people who understand each other and get along. For this reason I have stayed away and not talked to her. She has been supportive of my stbx through this but knowing her I'm sure she doesn't agree with stbx's actions. I want to talk to her about getting my stbx some help because I think she is the only person right now who could have any influence.


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

Don't interact with this 'friend' at all. Ignore him and give him the cold shoulder.

No matter how nice a guy he acts and how easygoing he seems with you, he is far from a friend to you.

No matter the circumstances, this guy still chose to sleep with the WW of one of the people in a circle of friends he considers himself a part of. 

That is the ultimate form of disrespect that a man can offer to another man, and it should tell you that this guy will willingly fool with any future Mrs. HTD you find in the future.

He is a scumbag who has no loyalty to anyone but himself.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I had a good time last night. When I got home from work and started getting ready to go out, the stbx asked if I had any ideas for dinner and I told her I was going out. Her reply was...oh. Of course as I am getting cleaned up she decides she wants to chat with me and casually asks about my plans for the night. I didn't give her anything.

The woman I was with checked all of us in on FB and sure enough, within 20 minutes, my stbx sends me a snide message letting me know she knows what I was doing and who I was with. Then she posts some stupid thing on her wall that I know is directed at me....so I liked it. The guy she did on Sunday comes walking up with another friend and plays it off well. Other than the initial hi, I never talked to him again or was anywhere near him. The funny thing is, I checked the phone records and he never sent my stbx a message and she didn't send him one when she saw we were at the same event, but they could have messaged on FB.

I had a great time and ended up talking to my female friend for quite a while when we got back to her house. Her and her 4 year boyfriend just broke up and he moved out last week because she cheated on him. She was very open with me about what happened and what she and he had been through and I was able to ask her questions about what had gone through her mind while in the affair, after, and now. It was interesting getting a first hand accounting of what goes through a cheaters mind. She is very remoresful and has done everything right towards reconciliation but her boyfriend isn't ready but hasn't discounted the possibility.

When I get home at 1am, I arrive to a dark house. Normally, even through all of this, the stbx will leave the porch light on and a couple lamps in the house. She leaves a nightlight on in the main hallway and a small light in the kitchen at night even when we are all home. She literally made the effort to make sure absolutely every light in the house was off when I got home. It may not seem like anything to most, but I know that she put thought into it. Most mornings she gets up and wakes up the boys for school and gets back in bed while they get ready. This morning she stayed up and says to me right before I leave for work, "please stop 'liking' things I post on FB", to which I responded "okay" but I wanted to respond with hahahaha.

It was a successful evening. I had a great time with my friends and irritated the crap out of the stbx, and was able to make additional plans for tonight, which means I will only be home to sleep this whole week.


----------



## manticore

wow so the new chick is bad news for a relationship.
- (cheater background in 4 years relationship)
- ( still hanging hoping for R with the ex)

maybe she wants to be friends with benefits or maybe you are plan b, or maybe she genuely is just being a friend (which I doubt).

anyway man, there are many fishes in the ocean.

It will be cool if you make a comment to your EX like "I was with your boyfriend last Tuesday" if she acts with jealousy again.

but is up to you maybe it will make things worst at home, or maybe she will understand easily why she have to move out


----------



## hard_to_detach

Yeah, I knew this chick had cheated. We are just friends but I figure since her boyfriend moved out if something happens, I'm game. Not looking for a relationship anyway, but ultimately we are friends.

My stbx knows that guys was there because he was tagged in the post on FB but she doesn't know I know what they did. I think I'll keep it under my hat for the time being.


----------



## doubletrouble

hard_to_detach said:


> Yeah, I knew this chick had cheated. We are just friends but I figure since her boyfriend moved out if something happens, I'm game. Not looking for a relationship anyway, but ultimately we are friends.
> 
> My stbx knows that guys was there because he was tagged in the post on FB but she doesn't know I know what they did. I think I'll keep it under my hat for the time being.


Hell, I'd use it to eff with her head. What do you have to lose?


----------



## happyman64

hard_to_detach said:


> Yeah, I knew this chick had cheated. We are just friends but I figure since her boyfriend moved out if something happens, I'm game. Not looking for a relationship anyway, but ultimately we are friends.
> 
> My stbx knows that guys was there because he was tagged in the post on FB but she doesn't know I know what they did. I think I'll keep it under my hat for the time being.


Your wife left the lights off hoping you would trip and break your neck.

When your wife told you to stop liking her stuff on FB you should have said this

"I will do that if your BF stops pretending he is my friend, shakes my hand and then leaves his load in your underpants that I have to look at in the laundry. Can you do that for me? "

There is meaning to a line like that HTD.

HM


----------



## weightlifter

T minus 16.

Sort of curious. Did What did she say went thru her mind up to coitus? IE did she say what she was thinking when undressing? when on her way to wherever she cheated?

how did her BF find out?


----------



## weightlifter

happyman64 said:


> Your wife left the lights off hoping you would trip and break your neck.
> 
> When your wife told you to stop liking her stuff on FB you should have said this
> 
> "I will do that if your BF stops pretending he is my friend, shakes my hand and then leaves his load in your underpants that I have to look at in the laundry. Can you do that for me? "
> 
> There is meaning to a line like that HTD.
> 
> HM


LOL I would just start liking everything. Of course still being friended might have value.

Then again Im a sarcastic smartazz... or is that dumazz?


----------



## turnera

hard_to_detach said:


> Then she posts some stupid thing on her wall that I know is directed at me....*so I liked it*.


Perfect! :lol:


----------



## warlock07

Are you attracted to cheaters in general ?


----------



## Lovemytruck

warlock07 said:


> Are you attracted to cheaters in general ?


LOL! Aren't we all? I know you are making a point. It just made me laugh.

I do think that HTD needs to pass on this one. Easy come, easy go.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Hahaha....I've been friends with her for quite a while. I'm not looking to get into a relationship with her, but I wouldn't turn down a little fun if she's up to it.


----------



## tom67

hard_to_detach said:


> Hahaha....I've been friends with her for quite a while. I'm not looking to get into a relationship with her, but I wouldn't turn down a little fun if she's up to it.


Nothing wrong with some friends with benefits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

tom67 said:


> Nothing wrong with some friends with benefits.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And if it's someone the WW knows, so much the better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> And if it's someone the WW knows, so much the better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah that will drive her bonkers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manticore

you can say he would be paying her with the same coin, and for previous posts she seems to like the idea


----------



## livinfree

hard_to_detach said:


> Thank you for all the support. I have taken the high road so that I can respect myself when this is all complete but I have also done it to protect my favorable settlement. I am definitely going to start being a little selfish.


I lived through that and know the feeling of "GTFO already". The ink was dry on my D papers and I had 3 months cohab w the ex. I carried on, brought dates home and had 'em screaming in ecstasy while the ex was in the basement. The look on the ex's face when seeing me with half nekkid hotties 10 years younger was priceless. Certainly no chance for R, I burned that mother fückin bridge doown


----------



## MrHappyHat

Please make it a point to look for and choose quality women going forward.

You're going to end up with what you're looking for. This is the case in your current predicament and will be in the future.


----------



## turnera

My DD23 has dated only 2 guys in the last four years, for not more than 7 months, total. She has no time to waste on guys who she knows are bad matches for her. All the guys she's met in the last 6 months have been cigarette smokers, so she just flatly refuses to even consider dating them. And she's fine with that.


----------



## hard_to_detach

turnera, I am a non-smoker.....

I had another great night last night and got home very late again. The porch light was on this time and a note on my bed: "I'd like to talk, are you going to be home tomorrow night?"
I wonder what that is about....why didn't she just send me a text to ask?

When I got home from work yesterday, she and the boys were not home, so I did a load of laundry. As I am separating out my clothes from her I accidentally grab the underwear in question....still not washed and smelling rancid. That pissed me off! I did my clothes only and when we talk will make it clear that she needs to keep her cvm soaked clothes away from mine and do not wash my clothes anymore as I will handle it.

just kidding turnera...I couldn't resist.


----------



## turnera

I hope you DO tell her that.


----------



## hard_to_detach

I am, for sure! I'll let you all know how she responds.


----------



## LongWalk

I would just clear away all other clothes spread that pair of underwear neatly on the top of the machine with a bottle of bleach beside it. And stain remover spray if you have it.

She wants to talk... only one way to find out what she wants to say.


----------



## LongWalk

Turnera,

By the way, yesterday at dinner with ex, D18 and D16 – celebrating D16's birthday – D18 spoke about the 20-year-old guy that she and her teammate both had crush on. From what I can gather he took the teammate's virginity, got on the boat home and only communicated by email two weeks later to say that he didn't think it would work because their age difference is too great.

My daughter now "sees him differently".

My ex advised her not to take sides. My ex doesn't much believe in LTR and marriage anymore. Sad. I played a roll in it. Life is full of lessons. Some you have to experience, some you can learn by observing and listening.

Sorry for the thread jack, HTD. 

You have gone through some hard times. It is mind boggling to write something on TAM, such as housing listed in Sunday paper. Here it is reduced to 4 or 5 words. To you it is the home soon not to be. It was security destroyed.

Here is an article about dating. You may or may not recognize your wife and self in this, but people are never satisfied. It takes discipline to not destruct your life for sexual and emotional adventure. There is no absolute right and wrong in these things, but their choices and consquences.


----------



## turnera

I spent a LOT of time talking to DD23 about how high school dating was just for fun because staying with any guy past high school - or even a semester, for that matter - is almost impossible, as you both are rapidly changing and learning and becoming new people, by the day. Told her to never take a high school romance seriously because it almost never becomes 'that one true love' - so just have fun, date lots of different guys to see which kind are more fun and more her style.

I told her that college was for trying on serious relationships but, again, not to put too much stock in them, as in many cases, the two of you won't end up in the same city after graduation and ONE of you will have to give up your dream job or career just to live in the other's city of choice.

She's pretty much followed that route.


----------



## manticore

so, how are you doing hard_d?, divorce is about to become a reality.


----------



## tom67

manticore said:


> so, how are you doing hard_d?, divorce is about to become a reality.


Hard started another in going through divorce where all of a sudden she wants to change the terms of the agreement.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/136602-stuck-bad-situation.html


----------



## hard_to_detach

LongWalk said:


> Has her jealousy caused her to desire reconciliation?
> 
> Perhaps she is nearer to admitting she destroyed her marriage because she wanted something new. And OM turned out to be a POS. You remain the most important man in her life.



LongWalk wins. We talked for a long time and she finally broke down that she has been so depressed because she realizes she completely messed up her life and has lost the best man she could ever hope to have in her life. She said that she did feel something for the POSOM that she had never felt before but during their few months together came to realize that there was so much about him that she couldn't see living with and has no desire to be with him anymore. Last week was the final straw for her when I was out every night enjoying my life without her. She said it was driving her nuts and she has seriously been fighting suicidal thoughts for weeks now.

She didn't think I would be upset about the pictures. She couldn't stand to look at a reminder of what she had thrown away. She knows that I am trying to move on but wants to see if we can work things out. She even suggested that if I am open to considering a reconciliation, we go to counseling. This is a first for her, she has said in the past that she would never do that and now she is pushing for it. She says that she understands the fact that I am guarded and don't trust her and may never trust her but she wants to do whatever she can to try to salvage things.

I told her that this chapter of our life is closing. We will be divorced in less than two weeks and the relationship we had is gone. I told her that I would always wonder if she is longing for POSOM or when the next POSOM comes along and she decides she can't live without him and we're right back here. I reminded her of all the betrayals I have experienced over the last 6 years and while she has been honest with me in that time about her feelings, she went about things all wrong and I can't trust her the way I used to. I told her that I have considered the possibility of us having a chance years down the road after we have both experienced other relationships and discovered ourselves and worked on our issues, but until then we would just be back in the same situation we were. I also told her that the timing leads me to believe that she is scared of the finality of the divorce and is saying whatever she can to stop it so that she has time to figure things out.

There is a lot more I said that I can't think of right now....needless to say, I have not gotten a lot of sleep over the last few nights as we have spent considerable time talking each night after the boys go to bed. When I told her all of this and how I felt about it, she visibly cringed and slumped and said that she knows we are in different places and that what she has feared is true.....that she has lost me. She has been crying constantly. She said that she doesn't need to go out and experience other relationships and then it hit me....she already did that. Part of her knows that I should do the same thing but she is afraid that I would find someone else and not come back.

I'll tell you what....she is either an Oscar caliber actress or this is the real deal. She is literally throwing herself on my mercy and is willing to do whatever it takes to make this work. She knows I am guarded and that I will never trust her again but she is willing to do the heavy lifting, wait however long it takes for me, abide by whatever boundaries I need. The first example of this....she would have had to have paid to put a stop on the divorce and make changes and only had one day to get them the money or else they were putting it through for the judge to sign....she didn't stop it. She is accepting the agreement she made when she was running to get out and so it will still be final next Friday.

I thought I was messed up 5 months ago....this has thrown me for a complete loop. I was moving on and ready for whatever my new life would bring. Hope for reconciliation was a distant memory and not something I wanted anymore. Believe me, I'm not jumping on this, but my heart tells me I need to consider it. My brain is pushing for me to move on but even that is telling me I need to consider it. She doesn't deserve another chance and in her former and current state is not worthy of me, but if she is truly willing to make changes and earn her way back, I might consider it.

I feel like the ground has been pulled out from under me and I am just floating in space not knowing which way is up.


----------



## LostAndContent

She went and had sex with a dude less than two weeks ago. The only reason she's has any interest in you is that she's seeing that other girls might. You're better than this dude. She's treated you like dung for so long, don't be fooled just because she wants you to stick around for her to bully. 

Also, she went and had sex with another dude less than two weeks ago.


----------



## BK23

At the very least, let the divorce with the favorable terms go through. If you want to reconcile after that you won't have the gun of potential alimony pressed to your head...


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

LostAndContent said:


> She went and had sex with a dude less than two weeks ago. The only reason she's has any interest in you is that she's seeing that other girls might. You're better than this dude. She's treated you like dung for so long, don't be fooled just because she wants you to stick around for her to bully.
> 
> *Also, she went and had sex with another dude less than two weeks ago.*


What he said!^^^^^^^^

She's not sorry for what she's done to you so much as she's sorry what she's loosing/lost.

I can't believe that you're even considering this... Oh wait, I guess I can.

Stick to your plan. If she still wan't you back in 6-12 months, then go from there.

My guess is she'll be having sex with OM's before the year is over. You have to give credit though, she deserves an Oscar.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Believe me, this divorce is going through and thank god it is with the good terms. I am by no means saying I am ready to jump on the reconciliation bus. I will give myself plenty of time and see what she does and in the meantime I will be going and getting myself some action.


----------



## Lovemytruck

HTD,

I reall appreciate your post today. It is hauntingly familiar.

When I was there, I chose to move ahead on the seperation and the D.

My reasoning was similar to yours. I figured I had to D to fix my horrible situation of not knowing what was the right path.

Part of my logic was that I could do better. Part of it was that we would never have the same feelings again.

I don't regret it now. I feel that the new person/marriage is better than if I would have continued to deal with the exWW any longer.

It makes me feel awful for you. Those are some of the most difficult days.

If you decide to D, at least see it through for a few months. I think this will give you a chance to see what it is like to adapt to a new life.


----------



## Dyokemm

HTD,

I predicted long ago that one day teenage fantasy camp would come to a crashing halt and she would regret what she had done BIG TIME.

I never thought that day would come before your D had finalized.

In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that POSOM was such a unreliable and flaky loser she would probably still be in the world of Hollywood romance.

Be that as it may, now she is crashing hard before you have officially closed the door on your M.

Of course you feel suddenly lost and confused. You were probably thinking this would happen in a couple years after you had already firmly moved on in life, probably already involved in another relationship.

That would have been an easy situation to just simply keep the door closed on the past and tell her its too late.

Now you are realizing the current timing is going to actually require you to do some serious soul searching and thinking about where you want to go.

Remember, this does not need to happen at a break neck speed.

It is OK if you two let the D go final and then talk and work together to see if there is anything left that you two would want to rebuild from.

The old M is dead anyway. There should be no rush to suddenly save it at the last minute just to avoid the D finalization.

Rebuilding, if you choose it, is gonna be about far more than that piece of paper called a marriage license anyway.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hard_to_detach said:


> LongWalk wins. We talked for a long time and she finally broke down that she has been so depressed because she realizes she completely messed up her life and has lost the best man she could ever hope to have in her life. She said that she did feel something for the POSOM that she had never felt before but during their few months together came to realize that there was so much about him that she couldn't see living with and has no desire to be with him anymore. Last week was the final straw for her when I was out every night enjoying my life without her. She said it was driving her nuts and she has seriously been fighting suicidal thoughts for weeks now.
> 
> She didn't think I would be upset about the pictures. She couldn't stand to look at a reminder of what she had thrown away. She knows that I am trying to move on but wants to see if we can work things out. She even suggested that if I am open to considering a reconciliation, we go to counseling. This is a first for her, she has said in the past that she would never do that and now she is pushing for it. She says that she understands the fact that I am guarded and don't trust her and may never trust her but she wants to do whatever she can to try to salvage things.
> 
> I told her that this chapter of our life is closing. We will be divorced in less than two weeks and the relationship we had is gone. I told her that I would always wonder if she is longing for POSOM or when the next POSOM comes along and she decides she can't live without him and we're right back here. I reminded her of all the betrayals I have experienced over the last 6 years and while she has been honest with me in that time about her feelings, she went about things all wrong and I can't trust her the way I used to. I told her that I have considered the possibility of us having a chance years down the road after we have both experienced other relationships and discovered ourselves and worked on our issues, but until then we would just be back in the same situation we were. I also told her that the timing leads me to believe that she is scared of the finality of the divorce and is saying whatever she can to stop it so that she has time to figure things out.


You gotta do what you feel is right. All I'll say is that this is an awesome post from your wife except, I have read it about 50 different times.



> but if she is truly willing to make changes and earn her way back, I might consider it.
> 
> I feel like the ground has been pulled out from under me and I am just floating in space not knowing which way is up.


 Yep and that's why many betrayed spouses say it is a calculated tactic. 
Wayward: "No No No No No. I will never do what you want."
Something drastic happens.
Wayward: "I will do EVERYTHING I said no to before."

Good luck to you.


----------



## weightlifter

If HTD goes all the way till next Friday without getting physical with another woman the entire time while she has had 2 (3?) guys. I hope he scores some action with triplets.

I am actually pulling for him to make it to D day. Then I hope his balls ache Sat morning from shooting off 10 loads overnight.


----------



## turnera

If she is still asking for you to take her back in a year, consider it.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

weightlifter said:


> If HTD goes all the way till next Friday without getting physical with another woman the entire time while she has had 2 (3?) guys. I hope he scores some action with triplets.
> 
> I am actually pulling for him to make it to D day. Then I hope his balls ache Sat morning from shooting off 10 loads overnight.


He'll never catch up to her, unless he starts dating "professionals".

She had sex with a new OM a few weeks ago, I'd put money on her having sex with another OM two weeks from now.

Once the D goes through, I doubt her wanting to get back together will last. I think she'll have other things she wants more.

Of course, if he puts the D on hold, she'll wait... Another few months anyway.


----------



## weightlifter

Just sayin it was a goal of his to make it thru Nov 15 having never broken his vows. I hope he makes it... And Friday night he shoots off so many loads his balls ache from fvcking triplets.

OK so it is 3 knows OMs? Barney Fife, someone random, and the player bartender? Wow. Uh yea.


----------



## Chaparral

weightlifter said:


> Just sayin it was a goal of his to make it thru Nov 15 having never broken his vows. I hope he makes it... And Friday night he shoots off so many loads his balls ache from fvcking triplets.
> 
> OK so it is 3 knows OMs? Barney Fife, someone random, and the player bartender? Wow. Uh yea.


The reality is she has figured out what these guys want, and they don't want much............slam bam thank ya mamm.


----------



## LongWalk

Detach,

I want to thank you for sharing your story. I have learned a great deal from you. I think you are doing the right thing.

You are fortunately a keen observer with considerable wisdom. Despite your pain, you have managed to look upon your situation while maintaining compassion. Your experience on the cruise made many things clear.

1) In favor of reconciiation you and your wife know that you both have good sexual chemistry. She betrayed the OM on the eve of her departure because she had feelings and desire. The wise man on the ship's words hold true for you, too. If what you have is good you can keep it. Why look for something better.

2) Your wife is immature. Her self esteem is poor. You are a grown up solid person. She rebelled against you. She wanted to feel that her vagina could raise her position in the world. Almost all young women who are attractive and like sex discover that their vagina's can get them attention. This is a cool human experience.

Your wife, driven by a subterranan river of desire for strange DNA, let fantasy hijack her life. Her fantasy was about as original as a cheap romance fiction novel: she chose to cast a former boyfriend as a hero. What a fail. He was not half the man, she wished he had been. Even at the hight of it all, you stood above him.

3) Your wife has desire to better herself. Going to school versus fvcking up her life, which did she pursue? After you divorce she should follow through on education and get good grades to build her self esteem. You can help her financially to some degree. 

4) Your son needs the support of you and your stbx. You WW needs to be there for him and your 11-year-old. She needs to be a grown up, not a teenage girl discovering how manage her exciting new life. You should discuss how D is going to affect him. She has to do heavy lifting. That means action not words. How well things go for him are going to affect your willingness to consider R.

5) re: Other men and women after divorce
This is a tricky one. After you are divorced neither X has the right to ask for fidelity. Your situation is now extraordinary. You can tell your wife that she is a free agent and so are you. Maybe you will date her. If she dates other men, it will in all probability kill off your willingness for reconcilation. Can she show some self discipline and not seek self affirmation from male attention for a few months?

Maybe you can have sex with her as it suits you.

This makes dating tricky for you. You just need to be honest with any women you date. You are not looking for anything at this point but fun. You don't want pressure.

Your wife will not be enthusiastic about you seeing other women. But maybe she needs to see that you can get laid. You have a great deal going for you. You have some idea of who you are even when everything is going down the tubes. Most people would not have dealt with situation as well as you have. You think for yourself.

As long as you don't do cruel stuff, getting the affair out your system, it may be good for you. Don't drink more than you usually do. You will be feeling grief for your dead marriage. Accept that and grieve.

You do not have to sleep with X number of women to even the score. Don't brutalize yourself emotionally. If you meet a very nice woman and she can fill the void left by your wife, maybe you should accept that your marriage is better abandoned permanently.

The ONS that led to the crusty panties was not cool, but it was really a childish reaction by your Stbx in the face of a horrible reality. Have you discussed it with her? Did it make her feel better at the time? She really needs to examine the concept of self destructive behavior in IC.

6) Should you cohabit with your wife?
I don't know the answer to this. It costs money to split up. It is confusing for your boys if you divorce but stay together. It is traumatic them to have to live in two homes. Maybe your wife needs to be alone to further explore the consequences of what she has done. On the other hand, you have two boys to raise. Turnera and some other wise posters may be able help with this.

Your sons need to come first in this puzzle.

7) Money
Your x is not a super greedy person. She doesn't seem interested in wealth. I sort of like her idea that self fulfillment is more important than money. However, it is a naive and romantic attitude. What did you think about her boob job that was financed out of the inherited money? Ask her how she feels about he decision to do it. Do not let her know what answer you are seeking. Let her explain as best she can because the truth is she did it to attract attention from other men.

I realized that women her age hate the idea that men are going to stop looking at them. The pretty young women get annoyed at being undressed by men in public but the 30 year olds hate to see their pull diminish. Jesus, life is cruel.

When your wife finishes her hopefully not too mixed up account of her relationship to her breasts, maybe you could ask her to imagine what if she had breast cancer and had to under a masectomy. Does she think that your love would have survived the change to he body? Would you have been there for her? 

All of the energy and joy your WW has sucked out of your lives is real blow to your family. Your Stbx should in any case now be working really hard to support you and your sons, regardless of whether R happens. You cannot take her seriously if she does not listen to you now. You need to more or less tell her what to do. The more she does right on her own will go a long way to helping you figure out is she is salvagable. She is lucky to have you as an ex husband. She should be grateful that you have been so nice.

Good luck and thank you again.


----------



## jack.c

I will just make a reminder of what happend and what YOU WENT THROUGH WRITING IT:

_Apparently, in the two hours they spent together at a local coffee shop, she realized that he is her one true love and is ready to throw away our 15 year relationship

My head has been telling me it is time to move on but my heart hasn't wanted to 

I looked at her email and found an email she sent the POSOM while waiting at the airport. She was professing her love for him and talked about how she feels about him

I asked her if she could commit to not call or text the OM while we were there. She thought about it for a day and came back and said she couldn't commit to that. 

The other confirmation I got though is that they have had sex. He was in town two weeks ago and she went to his hotel for a few hours.

I am done. If she had honored her pledge to not take it physical until our divorce was final, I could have considered exploring a new relationship with her if she changed her mind.

She is on her way right now to sleep with him. She is driving over 300 miles round trip to see him and gave me some stupid alibi like I am a moron

she admitted they have had sex,

so I said "interesting, so you have always been a liar and cheater and I just didn't see it"...

Sure enough, I get home and the bedroom door is locked and a note on it that says "please do not come in here"_

I can copy other words you wrote down but I think you got the point of what I mean!
STILL THINKING FOR R.?


----------



## warlock07

Maybe you should have asked her about the panties if she was so worried about losing you..I mean, how classless is that ?

You posted that you found out that she had threesomes with other couples. She cheated repeatedly. She cheated on her bf she was having an affair with, with you. This women is messed up and this probably is going to get worse.


----------



## jack.c

warlock07 said:


> Maybe you should have asked her about the panties if she was so worried about losing you..I mean, how classless is that ?
> 
> You posted that you found out that she had threesomes with other couples. She cheated repeatedly. She cheated on her bf she was having an affair with, with you. This women is messed up and this probably is going to get worse.



:iagree:
I didnt want to put to much salt on the wound! :lol:


----------



## warlock07

I told her that I have considered the possibility of us having a chance years down the road after we have both experienced other relationships and discovered ourselves and worked on our issues, but until then we would just be back in the same situation we were.

Please don't. Unless you want to use it to get a favorable and fair divorce settlements


----------



## LongWalk

Warlock, the divorce is going through without changes isn't it?

Anyway, Detach is in the driver's seat now. He doesn't have to decide anything at the moment.


----------



## weightlifter

IIRC the boob job thing was not horrible vanity. She had pancake t!ts and it was a resize and rehang not a "ooh I have to be a porno queen size DDDDDD fest"

Am I right HTD? (Pancake t!ts post kids?)


----------



## sandc

*Re: Re: Should I move on?*



LongWalk said:


> Detach,
> 
> I want to thank you for sharing your story. I have learned a great deal from you. I think you are doing the right thing.
> 
> You are fortunately a keen observer with considerable wisdom. Despite your pain, you have managed to look upon your situation while maintaining compassion. Your experience on the cruise made many things clear.
> 
> 1) In favor of reconciiation you and your wife know that you both have good sexual chemistry. She betrayed the OM on the eve of her departure because she had feelings and desire. The wise man on the ship's words hold true for you, too. If what you have is good you can keep it. Why look for something better.
> 
> 2) Your wife is immature. Her self esteem is poor. You are a grown up solid person. She rebelled against you. She wanted to feel that her vagina could raise her position in the world. Almost all young women who are attractive and like sex discover that their vagina's can get them attention. This is a cool human experience.
> 
> Your wife, driven by a subterranan river of desire for strange DNA, let fantasy hijack her life. Her fantasy was about as original as a cheap romance fiction novel: she chose to cast a former boyfriend as a hero. What a fail. He was not half the man, she wished he had been. Even at the hight of it all, you stood above him.
> 
> 3) Your wife has desire to better herself. Going to school versus fvcking up her life, which did she pursue? After you divorce she should follow through on education and get good grades to build her self esteem. You can help her financially to some degree.
> 
> 4) Your son needs the support of you and your stbx. You WW needs to be there for him and your 11-year-old. She needs to be a grown up, not a teenage girl discovering how manage her exciting new life. You should discuss how D is going to affect him. She has to do heavy lifting. That means action not words. How well things go for him are going to affect your willingness to consider R.
> 
> 5) re: Other men and women after divorce
> This is a tricky one. After you are divorced neither X has the right to ask for fidelity. Your situation is now extraordinary. You can tell your wife that she is a free agent and so are you. Maybe you will date her. If she dates other men, it will in all probability kill off your willingness for reconcilation. Can she show some self discipline and not seek self affirmation from male attention for a few months?
> 
> Maybe you can have sex with her as it suits you.
> 
> This makes dating tricky for you. You just need to be honest with any women you date. You are not looking for anything at this point but fun. You don't want pressure.
> 
> Your wife will not be enthusiastic about you seeing other women. But maybe she needs to see that you can get laid. You have a great deal going for you. You have some idea of who you are even when everything is going down the tubes. Most people would not have dealt with situation as well as you have. You think for yourself.
> 
> As long as you don't do cruel stuff, getting the affair out your system, it may be good for you. Don't drink more than you usually do. You will be feeling grief for your dead marriage. Accept that and grieve.
> 
> You do not have to sleep with X number of women to even the score. Don't brutalize yourself emotionally. If you meet a very nice woman and she can fill the void left by your wife, maybe you should accept that your marriage is better abandoned permanently.
> 
> The ONS that led to the crusty panties was not cool, but it was really a childish reaction by your Stbx in the face of a horrible reality. Have you discussed it with her? Did it make her feel better at the time? She really needs to examine the concept of self destructive behavior in IC.
> 
> 6) Should you cohabit with your wife?
> I don't know the answer to this. It costs money to split up. It is confusing for your boys if you divorce but stay together. It is traumatic them to have to live in two homes. Maybe your wife needs to be alone to further explore the consequences of what she has done. On the other hand, you have two boys to raise. Turnera and some other wise posters may be able help with this.
> 
> Your sons need to come first in this puzzle.
> 
> 7) Money
> Your x is not a super greedy person. She doesn't seem interested in wealth. I sort of like her idea that self fulfillment is more important than money. However, it is a naive and romantic attitude. What did you think about her boob job that was financed out of the inherited money? Ask her how she feels about he decision to do it. Do not let her know what answer you are seeking. Let her explain as best she can because the truth is she did it to attract attention from other men.
> 
> I realized that women her age hate the idea that men are going to stop looking at them. The pretty young women get annoyed at being undressed by men in public but the 30 year olds hate to see their pull diminish. Jesus, life is cruel.
> 
> When your wife finishes her hopefully not too mixed up account of her relationship to her breasts, maybe you could ask her to imagine what if she had breast cancer and had to under a masectomy. Does she think that your love would have survived the change to he body? Would you have been there for her?
> 
> All of the energy and joy your WW has sucked out of your lives is real blow to your family. Your Stbx should in any case now be working really hard to support you and your sons, regardless of whether R happens. You cannot take her seriously if she does not listen to you now. You need to more or less tell her what to do. The more she does right on her own will go a long way to helping you figure out is she is salvagable. She is lucky to have you as an ex husband. She should be grateful that you have been so nice.
> 
> Good luck and thank you again.


Bam! Out of the ballpark!


----------



## Chris989

I'm living with my now ex wife. I keep intending to leave, but real life keeps intervening and I am told every week that legal papers have been filed to enable me to begin to be taken off of our house and every week something else comes up. No big surprise, as it's often the lawyer's fault and you go a long way to find a truly competent lawyer.

Anyhoo, the children know what happened but they don't know we're divorced so right now although the relationship is in an odd limbo, the children have a stable home and it's working out pretty well.

Sure, I can't date and I won't start a relationship with another woman as I feel it would be unfair and fundamentally dishonest to do so but my kids are the no.1 priority for me for now - just as they always have been.

I'm saying this because you might find it useful in your situation HTD.


----------



## 86857

You haven't had much peace of mind these past 4 years and even less these past 6 months. Life SHOULD have been good but instead you were on the good ole betrayal emotional roller-coaster. There ain't no roller-coaster quite like it. What a waste! 

It is clear from your post that she has almost put you back on the roller coaster again with her convincing about-turn now that she realises you are leaving. It is pretty typical of cheaters. They think WS will always be there and they get that message loud and clear when BS gives them more than one chance at R which most BS end up doing. And so deep down she didn't think you would ever leave her.

Ask yourself if you will ever trust her again. 

Read some R threads. Pretty depressing for the most part. 

Don't forget that she would have walked away from you in a second if OM had proved to be as good as she thought he was.

Like all of us BS, you just weren't her Number 1. Remember that.

The title of your thread is:
_*"Should I move on?"* 
_
*. . . YES!*


----------



## davecarter

Chris989 said:


> I'm living with my now ex wife. I keep intending to leave, but real life keeps intervening and I am told every week that legal papers have been filed to enable me to begin to be taken off of our house and every week something else comes up. No big surprise, as it's often the lawyer's fault and you go a long way to find a truly competent lawyer.
> 
> Anyhoo, the children know what happened but they don't know we're divorced so right now although the relationship is in an odd limbo, the children have a stable home and it's working out pretty well.
> 
> Sure, I can't date and I won't start a relationship with another woman as I feel it would be unfair and fundamentally dishonest to do so but my kids are the no.1 priority for me for now - just as they always have been.
> 
> I'm saying this because you might find it useful in your situation HTD.


Wow...I'm not even divorced yet and I date as often as I can! :lol:


----------



## LongWalk

********** said:


> You haven't had much peace of mind these past 4 years and even less these past 6 months. Life SHOULD have been good but instead you were on the good ole betrayal emotional roller-coaster. There ain't no roller-coaster quite like it. What a waste!
> 
> It is clear from your post that she has almost put you back on the roller coaster again with her convincing about-turn now that she realises you are leaving. It is pretty typical of cheaters. They think WS will always be there and they get that message loud and clear when BS gives them more than one chance at R which most BS end up doing. And so deep down she didn't think you would ever leave her.
> 
> Ask yourself if you will ever trust her again.
> 
> Read some R threads. Pretty depressing for the most part.
> 
> Don't forget that she would have walked away from you in a second if OM had proved to be as good as she thought he was.
> 
> Like all of us BS, you just weren't her Number 1. Remember that.
> 
> The title of your thread is:
> _*"Should I move on?"*
> _
> *. . . YES!*


There are many reasons that speak against R. The list of them is long and damning. However, HTD has painted a sympathetic portrait of this stbx in some respects. In her dishonesty she has been quite open. Her inner turmoil is not secret. HTD knows where stands. Unlike many BS he doesn't have to doubt that she is deeply attracted to him.

She was contemplating suicide. That is not healthy but certainly says something about the depth of her feelings. To what degree her remorse is due to the loss of him versus the loss of her life is probably not clearly deliniated in her mind.

There is something attractive about this woman, despite her flaws. She is earnest and childlike. Sometimes we have a cross to bear. May this is his.

Reconciliation will require a huge effort. He has to set goals for her and then make cetain she follows up. Maybe easier to just move on. She may go down the tubes if he abandons her. Don't be a fixer of broken people is one of the mantras of TAM. We cannot always live up to it.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Thank you for all the feedback everyone. There are too many points for me to cover to quote everyone so I will just starting writing.

We talked again yesterday and she asked if I had looked into a counselor yet. I told her no, because we aren't back together. She said whether we get back together or not, she thinks it would be good for us for the sake of the kids and our ability to get along. I told her I would consider that but afterwards I thought about it and I am going to recommend that she start going to IC now and we can consider going together later.

She is not in a rush to get back together and wants us both to have time to figure this out. The good thing is that we are openly communicating. I told her all of the reasons why it is hard for me to even consider this....her professing love for POSOM, telling me she has never been in love with me, her previous EAs and PAs, the fact that this is coming on the eve of our divorce being final and her having no plan or future, and the fact that she was just fvcking someone last week. She cringed and each and every of the points I made, especially about the guy last week, and looked completely destroyed by the time I stopped talking. She understands but is willing to wait and do what it takes to figure this out.

One of the points that stung the most was when I pointed out that she cheated on POSOM with me on the cruise. She tried to justify it by saying that she already knew that he was going to break up with her and that they were over. I told her that she can justify it whatever way she wants but it tells me that she is not the person I once knew and loved. I am trying not to get into discussions about those types of things with her because I want those discussions to happen in counseling....if we go.


----------



## Tobyboy

What work has she done on herself for you to even consider to try to R?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hard_to_detach

Nothing yet, but talking to her about it is giving me the time I need for the divorce to be finalized. The fact that she is willing to go to counseling is a big deal based on her stance on it before. If she starts going and I see real change, then I will consider it. I need to see her work on it and make changes first though. In the mean time, I will continue focusing on my own life which will include going out with friends and going for the 19 year old and 50 year old from the cruise. I am not putting my life on hold based on her desire to reconcile.

My boy's well being is paramount through all of this and us still living together is actually a good thing at this point, so I am willing to continue with the arrangement we have now.


----------



## Tobyboy

Cool!! Carry-on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Did she say that she would remain celibate for a period of time. She needs to put the red shoes and short skirt away, not just for reconciliation but to stabilize her thinking.

As to love, well people don't always realize they love someone until something happens. In any event the love she feels for you is not romantic. It has to do with security, including sexual satisfaction. If you are going to reconcile, her feelings for you will probably become more intense.

You know her. If you continue to live together, she will start looking at you like a school girl. You'll be abe to read her and in any event she is used to blurting out the truth.

At the very least you seem to have put a stop to the period of madness.

Will be interesting to see whether she can deal with her own economic situtation without whining. If she can be financially responsible that will surely earn her some brownie points.

HTD, if you end up having sex with her, you don't have to apologize to anyone.


----------



## weightlifter

Suggestion coming out of my azz.

Since it looks like you are stuck living with one another. Tell her staying for any length of time is dependent upon her getting a job. ANY job, even PT and she can not interfere with you dating. You had to watch her fvck ?3? (that you know about) guys she cant interefere. Its not revenge its you getting sexual release.


----------



## doubletrouble

So HTD, today is the day. How are you feeling?


----------



## weightlifter

Wow. Its over htd.

So did ya make it to DIV day faithful?


----------



## hard_to_detach

Actually, today is not the day. Last week she never called them back about putting it on hold and we both assumed they mailed it. They called her on Wednesday this week and said they were still holding it, so she asked me what I wanted to do. I told her to put it on hold so that we will still be married at the end of the year. I did some quick math and by doing this I will get at least an extra $1k possibly $2k back on my taxes versus us divorcing and having to file separately. Plus it will give me time to review some other changes I would like to make to the agreement regarding her still living here.

They can hold it for 6 months but we should be able to have them send it in January. Once we make the changes and they send it to the court it will be final immediately because the waiting period has passed.


----------



## doubletrouble

I wonder what changes SHE will be able to make, and if she's going to still want that once the next few months have gone by. The extra thou or two on your taxes might disappear if she has a change of heart and changes the docs to get more out of the agreement. 

However, it's your choice and you have your own sound reasons for it; I'll try not to second guess you. I imagine you have thought those things out as well. 

<- That wasn't second guessing was it?


----------



## hard_to_detach

LongWalk said:


> Did she say that she would remain celibate for a period of time. She needs to put the red shoes and short skirt away, not just for reconciliation but to stabilize her thinking.
> 
> As to love, well people don't always realize they love someone until something happens. In any event the love she feels for you is not romantic. It has to do with security, including sexual satisfaction. If you are going to reconcile, her feelings for you will probably become more intense.
> 
> You know her. If you continue to live together, she will start looking at you like a school girl. You'll be abe to read her and in any event she is used to blurting out the truth.
> 
> At the very least you seem to have put a stop to the period of madness.
> 
> Will be interesting to see whether she can deal with her own economic situtation without whining. If she can be financially responsible that will surely earn her some brownie points.
> 
> HTD, if you end up having sex with her, you don't have to apologize to anyone.


We are having sex again and we both agree that it is the best either of us have ever experienced. As long as we are having sex, she will not be going out and getting it anywhere else. I have made no promise that I won't though. 

We have had many difficult and serious conversations over the last two weeks and she has been fairly receptive and accepting of what I have to say. I feel like her desire to reconcile is genuine and based on her love for me but I continue to tell her that she needs to get professional help before I will even consider attempting to reconcile. Once she is in counseling and I see the changes I need, I will join her for couples counseling and see what happens. If she doesn't take the steps I require, there will be no reconciling.

Her getting a job and contributing to the household expenses will be a definite must. Basically, I am approaching this like I have everything else over the last 5 months....one day at a time. The difference is that I feel much more equipped to deal with things and have a much clearer head. The other night she kissed me and said she loved me and I just looked at her. There was a time when that is all I wanted to hear from her and now it doesn't have the same effect. I felt like I needed to say it back but it wouldn't have been genuine and she could see that. I didn't say anything and she said "it's alright, you don't need to say anything. I understand. I just needed to let you know how I feel." There have been a couple instances since then that she has said she loved me and I don't reciprocate.

Time will tell on her part and mine.


----------



## LongWalk

hard_to_detach said:


> We are having sex again and we both agree that it is the best either of us have ever experienced. As long as we are having sex, she will not be going out and getting it anywhere else. I have made no promise that I won't though.
> 
> *Things could be worse. You and your ex have probably always been adventureous in the bedroom. And now you hardly have to ask and she's game for whatever. Don't promise her that you belong to her alone. Don't bring it up. You are divorced and don't have to explain what you do with your free time.*
> 
> We have had many difficult and serious conversations over the last two weeks and she has been fairly receptive and accepting of what I have to say. *She is a pretty straight shooter. But the other side of coin is headstrong. You have to lead now because she wants you to and she has disqualified herself.* feel like her desire to reconcile is genuine and based on her love for me but I continue to tell her that she needs to get professional help before I will even consider attempting to reconcile. *She never stopped loving you, based on your account, IMO. However, if you hadn't undermined OM's ego, by reclaiming her on the cruise, it would have been too late by the time she realized he was not the one.
> 
> That cruise was paid for out of her inheritance from her mother or grandmother, right? Burn some incense for the dead.*
> 
> Once she is in counseling and I see the changes I need, I will join her for couples counseling and see what happens. If she doesn't take the steps I require, there will be no reconciling.
> 
> *Your love for her may not be strong enough no matter what she does. Also, she is now the partner who wants the relationship and you are ambivilent one. That alone hurts your connection. Her trying may seem pathetic if she loses her dignity. Needy people are not attractive.
> 
> If she lets you walk all over her, you won't love her for that.*
> 
> Her getting a job and contributing to the household expenses will be a definite must.
> 
> *This is very important. I think the chances of you loving her in a healthy way will increase if you see her struggle to be kind and patient after hard days work. You want to see some sort of fortitude.*
> 
> Basically, I am approaching this like I have everything else over the last 5 months....one day at a time. The difference is that I feel much more equipped to deal with things and have a much clearer head.
> 
> *You don't need to tell your wife that you are much tougher guy. You have suffered and survived.*
> 
> The other night she kissed me and said she loved me and I just looked at her. There was a time when that is all I wanted to hear from her and now it doesn't have the same effect. I felt like I needed to say it back but it wouldn't have been genuine and she could see that. I didn't say anything and she said "it's alright, you don't need to say anything. I understand. I just needed to let you know how I feel."
> 
> *The next time she says it, pause and tell her that she needs to keep doing it. Say that day your feel it, you will tell her. And if you your heart gives up on her, you will tell her that, too. Honesty is good in your relationship. For people who can't stand each other it's not a good policy.*
> 
> There have been a couple instances since then that she has said she loved me and I don't reciprocate.
> 
> Time will tell on her part and mine.


Did she destroy all of your wedding photos? Do you want to see her frame new ones. The photographer may have saved the negatives. But if not maybe some relatives have photos. Maybe you don't want to have those pictures, but restoring some of them would be a literaral lesson in how easy it is to stamp on something and ruin it and how hard it is to restore something.

The woman friend who was not impressed with your ex-wife's lying. It wouldn't hurt your ex say thank you to her for her honest sense of integrity. She was a catalyst to lifting the fog.

It will be interesting when you introduce each other in strangers. 

How is your family taking this all?


----------



## turnera

hard_to_detach said:


> We are having sex again and we both agree that it is the best either of us have ever experienced.


That's what I figured. Damn, she's good.


----------



## Headspin

hard_to_detach said:


> We are having sex again and we both agree that it is the best either of us have ever experienced. As long as we are having sex, she will not be going out and getting it anywhere else. .........Time will tell on her part and mine.


I understand the attraction but this for me is a mistake.

She is using the one thing that never fails for a woman in this situation. 

It's the "best" why? 
It's the horniest, the dirtiest, but then also the most tender, loving - yep the lot - it's brilliant because 
she's pulling up trees now

Hysterical Bonding

It has a shelf life. From what I can see in your thread that's how she's been with everyone else too!
You are finally getting some because it's her trick, the one thing she can rely on to get your arse nailed onside

I'm not criticizing you hth. Enjoy it - it's fantastic 

*......but don't be fooled - don't let it mask the reality of what it really is* 

She's similar to my very stbx and clearly has 'issues' in terms of the 'way' she loves and what she perceives love and it's 'boundaries' to be 

You'll end up chasing what you thought you had and could have again. But for me that is our, the betrayed, 'fog' - it was not actually what we thought it was - the real 'reality' was that you were ground into the dust without a second thought

For me I can feel, as my divorce is finalised (after 15 years two kids serial cheating) , my very stbx wife is starting to make the tell tale signs of panic, in finally letting me go. It does make me smile I admit ego wise, as I start to hear "maybe Ive found the grass is not greener" amongst the incessant sobbing.

I admit there is a tug on the heart and it does surprise me after what she has destroyed in this family and others too but my resolve is solid. She's added steel to my heart now that was never there before but it's there forever and as much as I would want the best bits of our lives to return I'll never let her back in in the way she would want it so that means she will not be there ever again

Have to say being separated for a year and a half now there is so much about our lives that I do not miss. Obviously I miss some nice things but when the bad start to outweigh the good you know you are on the right path out of there. 

It's difficult being still in it but not 'in it' and I'd say thinking straight under those circumstances is very hard but just try to do what is right for you your kids and nobody else


----------



## LongWalk

Headspin,

This is why he must follow through with the divorce. She can be the ex at any moment because she is the ex. If she doesn't perform, he can put her out the door. Change of character doesn¨t come easy to adults. We wish it did. I don't the chances of success for HTD are better than 50/50. However, there is something likeable about his wife, despite of all her crazy antics. HTD knows her character flaws rather well now.

HTD will not be able to relax with her for years if ever.

Deal breakers:
She fails to get a job
She complains about her job
IC brings no insight
Doesn't perform as parent

She ought to be grateful for the opportunity to be the ex who keeps the bed warm.

The benefit with exWW is that if they can survive, she may become a grown up who has values. It's a tough road.

I don't think HTD can indulge his desire to bang a few women on the side without destroying the equilibrium in their relationship.


----------



## Headspin

LongWalk said:


> Headspin,
> 
> This is why he must follow through with the divorce. She can be the ex at any moment because she is the ex. If she doesn't perform, he can put her out the door. Change of character doesn¨t come easy to adults. We wish it did. I don't the chances of success for HTD are better than 50/50. However, there is something likeable about his wife, despite of all her crazy antics. HTD knows her character flaws rather well now.
> 
> HTD will not be able to relax with her for years if ever.
> 
> Deal breakers:
> She fails to get a job
> She complains about her job
> IC brings no insight
> Doesn't perform as parent
> 
> She ought to be grateful for the opportunity to be the ex who keeps the bed warm.
> 
> The benefit with exWW is that if they can survive, she may become a grown up who has values. It's a tough road.
> 
> I don't think HTD can indulge his desire to bang a few women on the side without destroying the equilibrium in their relationship.


Agree but the trouble with hysterical bonding is that you once in the middle of the greatest sex of your life cannot make a decision about your partner. Not a real one 

Because what they are showing you is in fact not real and not the real them.

The power of it is incredible but it veils the reality of where you are with each other much to the advantage of the one who thinks they will use this to get 'back in'

Personally I advocate no sex at all, keep away from anything that pulls away your sense of the real and now because when in these traumatic situations reality is what gets through to you and gives you your survival instinct at its strongest imo 

Agree its very very hard (!) to not be tempted


----------



## LongWalk

Life is not without risk. People go on adventures from which they do not return. Some sit at home and nothing ever happens to them. They say the people who disappeared made a mistake, but how do they know. They weren't on the journey.

HTD documented what was happening. Didn't he comment at one point that this thread was novel? Such an acute observer is not an easy dupe.

His WW went through a process in which she proudly deceived herself, until she couldn't lie anymore. She had rocketed to the bottom and she went there by herself. She had to admit that she alone was responsible for her situation.

At the moment she is dependent on HTD for his strength of character. She wants to him to love her, for who she is and in the hope that she is good. To get that love she must prove that she is a good person in deed. Wild monkey sex, as you point out, will not make her a good person.

We don't see it often today, but imagine for most of human history when people went through hard times and there wasn't enough food. Couples got through that sharing hunger. I am sure those people cheated, too. But if a husband and wife survived famine together – and witnessing the death of some of their children because that was common was part of life – their bond must have been incredibly strong if it remained in tact.

Starvation and disease do not command our lives in the same way at present. HTD's WW did her best to create an existential crisis. He could have pushed her away to let her harvest the bitter fruit of relative impoverishment and isolation. Her ability to see where she was heading is a credit to her honesty.

I don't remember what sort of education or work experience she has. But even if she has to go to Burger King that is better than coasting. If she, for example, worked her way up to assistant manager manager after a few months on the job, that would be affirmation of another quality. She needs that sort of reference in her life.


----------



## weightlifter

Divorce then date. If she makes it over X years in a marriage she becomes lifetime alimony eligible.

Best sex ever partly responsible for making you change your mind... That must be one hell of a vajayjay.


----------



## warlock07

Back to fixing mode, huh ?

Look out HTD. There is a reason she is back with you and they are not good reasons... I think it is only allowing the dysfunctional relationship to continue under the pretext of fixing her issues... Yeah, you have a bit more power this time and it probably feels good, but your wife needs to be single for a little while.

Think about what happened the last year one more time. She got the inheritance money and...


----------



## turnera

hard_to_detach said:


> Actually, today is not the day. Last week *she never called them back* about putting it on hold and we both assumed they mailed it. They called her on Wednesday this week and said they were still holding it, so she asked me what I wanted to do. I told her to put it on hold so that we will still be married at the end of the year.


 You DO realize you got played, right?


----------



## 86857

HTD, I'm throwing in a bucket of cold water on here with the help of your very first post. 
I am anti-R. I wasn't when I came to TAM only a couple of months ago. I was the opposite in fact. But in that time I have read many R trajectories on here. The only ones that seemed to have anything going for them was where there was ONE affair only and ONE D-day coupled with WS agreeing to NC immediately and no false R. Even those were no walk in the park. 



hard_to_detach said:


> She had a Facebook relationship about 4 years ago that included sex/dirty talk. We struggled through that and came close to divorce over a two year period. For the last two years we were able to be more open with each other and *she has admitted that she had never been "in love" with me but she does love me very much.
> *


It worries me that through 2 years of R she admitted she wasn't 'in love' with you. Did she ever recant and say that she now realised that she was in fact in love with you?


> *I have known that she felt like something was missing and have always done everything I can to be there for her. *


 This saddened me. You felt it too and pedalled furiously to 'make it right'. You were young when you married and it seems to me you may never have experienced what it's like to be 'in love' with someone who is also 'in love' with you.



> She started college in January. . . we have been talking about how nice it will be that she will have a good career too and we will be able to move wherever we want and begin our life together. *She has really seemed content in her life.
> *


She wasn't content with her life and didn't feel that she was 'in love' with you even after 2 years of R and your plans for the future. And here it comes. . . 


> She got a message on Facebook from her ex-boyfriend last week. *They dated for 2 months, 17 years ago, but besides me it was her longest relationship.* . . . So they meet up for about two hours a week ago Friday. . . Apparently, in the two hours they spent together at a local coffee shop, she realized that he is her one true love and is ready to throw away our 15 year relationship. . . *She said she didn't think she could feel like this about anyone and had resigned herself to the fact that she wouldn't and was ok with that. *


She was resigned to it until someone came along, in this case a guy she had dated for 2 months when she was 18???


> I will not have my "wife" dating while I am still supporting her. There isn't much I can do about them talking on the phone and texting. She said they will not make it physical until our divorce is final but will continue to talk to him.


 You do realise how absurd that situation was. A couple of posters have said quite sympathetic things about her. I would say that what she did here was nothing short of cruel. Had you at that point packed her suitcases and told her to leave you might well have got the reaction you are getting from her now. 


> What do I do? Last time this happened the "relationship" fizzled out and she came to her senses.


I can only hope that in the future you are not back here saying this again. 
Is she 'in love' with you now? What will happen when the dust settles and this high drama is past and you go back to the humdrum of life and carry on with R living under the same roof, having great sex and divorced? That's quite a mix in one sentence. Will she meet some OM in her exciting new job when she qualifies who will make her think again? 
You seem to be doing a false D which I haven't come across before on here. You are also doing a 'sort of' R and amidst all that you are having sex with her. That would confuse the hell out of the sanest human being.:scratchhead: 

You unfortunately are the one who is on the back foot here. You have had more than your share of consequences for what she has done. She, however hasn't had any consequences at all for her actions. You are still there for her. Nothing has changed except on paper. You threatened her with divorce, you even divorced her, well almost but. . .. she is still living where she always has and you are still there where you have always been. She has now even been able to seduce you after all she has done. 

It's as if you are both having a two-way bet. In this case, you are not the horse I would put my money on. 

What are you going to tell women you date? It would be quite cruel not to be frank about your situation from the first date. I can tell you I would not date a man in your situation. 

If your best friend's wife had done all this, what would you say to him. 

HTD I fear for you.


----------



## turnera

> There isn't much I can do about them talking on the phone and texting.


Actually, there IS much you can do - you can tell her that the next time you see her doing so, her clothes will be out on the lawn and the locks changed and a lawyer's notice on her phone.


----------



## LongWalk

HTD,

I think you'll agree the tax issue is a rationalization.

Make sure you divorce her as planned. Make her go to work. Make her go to IC.

If she has crappy attitude, tell her to move out.

She will love you well as long as you are tough on her. 

It will take a decade for her to prove herself.

She needs to build her own self respect up, you cannot do it all. If she commits and makes an effort she could become a WW, as in wonderful wife. Make certain that your word is always good. She needs a beacon.


----------



## LongWalk

turnera said:


> You DO realize you got played, right?


True. But they have some decent chance at happiness, don't they?

If the actress is all she is, then HTD is in big trouble. If there is a good hearted girl underneath who wants to become a woman, they have their work cut out.

HTD has tried to record the truth. ********** shows how you can read it pessimisstically. If you don't follow throught with the divorce, you's be helpless if you've misread her. Actually, I don't think you can expect a terrific moral and ethical performance out of her without the consequences of her behavior being underlined.

The components of a mature and lasting love will require more than sexual chemistry, but it's one place to start. All the R stories where the wives don't feel it and they they feel it a little, enough so the marriage can limp forward, that is misery.


----------



## 86857

HDT, you said if you had sex with her, she then wouldn't be going out looking for it elsewhere. Are you worried that she would if you didn't? You could decide NOT have sex with her and tell her you want to think things through to see whether she did seek it out elsewhere. You could at the same time have sex with others I suppose. But then, if you did, she might do the same. :scratchhead: The way I see it you will continue to have sex with each other and no one else. 

If D goes through and you are invited to the same party will you both go? If so will you chat to other singles? Or will one of you offer to not go? Your social life is going to get very confusing unless you start to move in different circles. But aren't your circles the same? So which of you is going to find different circles? Don't forget Christmas is approaching. If you continue to have sex however and not see others, chances are you will go as a couple as you always have done.

Given what I have said above, I think you are actually in R. 

The D consequence lost its sting for her because she still lives with you and you are now having sex. When D loomed close she did an about-turn and now says she loves you. It would seem more genuine if she had left OM and come back to you. She didn't, he rejected her. She has however experienced 'greener pastures'. It may have been enough to show her that it is you she loves. The only way you will ever know is to do R. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. 

I think you both are playing with the NOTION of divorce. It might be simpler and less confusing all round if you CANCEL the D and don't leave it hanging over you like an elephant in the room. D can be done at a moment's notice in the future as the papers have been drawn up. 

It might also be best for your children. It will be very confusing for them to have divorced parents who are living together, especially if it turns out that either of you start seeing others. 

LongWalk said I held a pessimistic view. Perhaps. But your family like any family is precious and worth saving. You have endured a lot of pain and you have been stoic. You said yourself you are far better equipped now. I imagine your thought process is as follows now: you will NOT do such pain again. Those days are over because at the first inkling of any repeat of her past behaviour you will present her with D papers on the same day and ask her to leave your home. 

This is your 2nd R. The last one turned out to be a false. She has no more chances. She must know at least that by now.

I wish you well with it HTD.


----------



## warlock07

HTD, just how much was her inheritance?

How much of it does she have now?


----------



## turnera

LongWalk said:


> True. But they have some decent chance at happiness, don't they?
> The components of a mature and lasting love will require more than sexual chemistry, but it's one place to start. All the R stories where the wives don't feel it and they they feel it a little, enough so the marriage can limp forward, that is misery.


Spoken as a true male. Who has NO IDEA what makes a woman want to stay in a marriage.


----------



## LongWalk

Thank you, Turnera. Glad to know I am organically intact

Do you mean that I am neglecting to observe that security is very important to women? HTD's wife became very passionate because her world dissolved and is willing to have lots of sex to restore her place in the universe? She is, hence, an actress?

That is true. The question is what is her method of acting. Does she throw herself into the part or is her current role a study? The only way to define her behavior is to follow through with the divcorce and make her earn back her self respect.

HTD is not going into this blind. He knows there is risk.

Hmmm... Turnera, are you saying that sex is not a need that she needs filled at the moment and that she is entirely passionate to deceive him? Does she love him? If so, does love itself mean anything?


----------



## turnera

No, I was just saying that it's typical for a man to say that sex will fix the marriage, while much less likely for a woman to see it that way - SHE is looking for connection, safety, care, dependability. Gross generalization on my part, but you get the drift.


----------



## LostViking

turnera said:


> No, I was just saying that it's typical for a man to say that sex will fix the marriage, while much less likely for a woman to see it that way - *SHE is looking for connection, safety, care, dependability.* Gross generalization on my part, but you get the drift.


TAM is replete with stories of betrayed husbands who have provided all these things to their wives for decades, and still get cheated on. 

When a woman gets a wild hair for some strange, all that lovey dovey connectedness and security gets thrown to the wayside. 

Same with good, decent wives and their POS philandering husbands. 

Sometimes a cheater is just a cheater. I think that's what HTD has on his hands here: she never truly loved him...probably does not have the capacity to love anyone in a way that would make her marriage material, and she is not going to change.


----------



## 86857

How are you doing HTD?
I hope things continue to get better for you.


----------



## turnera

LostViking said:


> TAM is replete with stories of betrayed husbands who have provided all these things to their wives for decades, and still get cheated on.


That isn't what we were talking about, LV. We were talking about how a R could work.


----------



## LostViking

turnera said:


> That isn't what we were talking about, LV. We were talking about how a R could work.


I'm talking about that too. R cannot work in this case. She bailed on this marriage before even giving it a chance. I think ********** has the bead on this situation.


----------



## turnera

LV, I was referring to someone else's remark, not the situation at hand.


----------



## LostViking

I understand you are talking in general terms, and for the most part I agree that those things you listed are what maybe 50% of the women in this world want. 

What I'm getting at is that there is nothing here to save. Nothing to salvage. HTD's wife has been playing a bait and switch game with him for their entire mariage. 

Even if she wanted to turn herself around, it would take years of therapy and counseling and an enormous 110% effort on her part to change. 

I just don't see that happening.


----------



## manticore

hard_to_detach said:


> Her getting a job and contributing to the household expenses will be a definite must. Basically, I am approaching this like I have everything else over the last 5 months....one day at a time.
> Time will tell on her part and mine.


By this you mean she will keep living in the house after the divorce?

Please read carefull ********** post, she make a very good points about what your WS told you, I don't want you to go thruogh another fake reconcilation, remember that in a couple years more OM will be free to take a Job whetever he wants and what if he plans in chaising your exwife again, what will she do?

Also if you plan to keep having sex a living together with her I encourage to read "BetrayedDad" Thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/107090-best-way-divorce-my-wife.html

his situation is very much like yours in many aspects:

- both wives have previous EA and unsure PA in marriage
- both wives when were caught accepted the divorce easy and fast.
- both wives were throw under the buss by the OMs
- both wives that weren't in love with their exhusbands suddendly found the new love for their exhusbands
- both after divorce keep living in the house and sexing the BS.


I am sure if you read his thread, you will come to the conclussion that he most healthy for him is to live aaprt for his exwife and if she proves herself worthy then take her back, but not keep living together without the WS having consequences.

this maybe will help you to glance your situation (kind of) from someone else posts, and think what will I adivce this man.


----------



## LongWalk

Turnera,

I agree that sex is not the solution. A successful relationship, especially in R, requires more.

HTD,

Hope you had a good weekend.


----------



## LongWalk

How are you doing?


----------



## manticore

I guess he decided to return to his normal life with his Xwife and kids and begin his reconcilation in his own way, and he see no point in coming back (even if I not support R as fast as he was sugesting he was gonna do it, I think his wife is messed up but really loves him, she is just not trust worthy and maybe she will never be), his wife needed to suffer for a while the consequences of her actions, but I guess his desire to have her back was stronger that any other feeling.

I know that globaly men are more propenses to step out of the marriage or have addictions or tendencies that ruin the marriage (cheating, alcohol, drunks, physical mental abuse). So when I see women like hard_d's wife who don't appreciate partners who love them and will do anything to protect and raise their kids and the only thing they wanto is a happy ordinary life with their families, I desire the for these women to experiment even for a little the real monsters out there in skin of a human:

- the wife beaters
- the abusive drunk dards
- the serial cheaters
- the drug addicts who will sell their wifes for the next fix

But I guess that the problem is that they have always been with the good guy from the beginning, so believing the empty promises from men who just want to have their fun with them is easy when they don't know what they have


----------



## warlock07

HTD, not sure I asked this but how much was the inheritance money that ruined your marriage ??


----------



## LongWalk

Happy New Year HTD!


----------



## weightlifter

Happy New Year HTD. You are not forgotten.


----------



## Sol

Hope you and yours are well, HTD, whether or not that currently includes your sad WW.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the long absence. Warlock, it was about $75k.

Things are still weird but we're getting along and our focus is on getting our teenager on track. So much has happened over the last couple months but nothing so major I need to go over it here. We are still in a holding pattern. We talk a lot and are open with what we're thinking and feeling. She understands my apprehension and the pain she caused and regrets it. She has removed several people from her Facebook that she knew I had a problem with. One of the guys has continued to try to contact her and she lets me know when he does and tells him to stop contacting her. She has gone to a couple therapy sessions and is working on herself.

She knows I am not automatically taking her back and that we might not work out but she wants to try and appears to be doing some heavy lifting to make it work....time will tell. In the meantime, I am focusing on my boys, my work, and myself. I am not ruling out anything at this point and am open to whatever comes my way.

Thank you all for your support.


----------



## manticore

Hi hard_d, long time.

is good that she is working on herself, and what about the marital status per se?, are you still married or the divorce was finalized.

is she still living with you or she got her own place in the end?.

did she go NC with POSOM and with the Bartender?, If she wants a chance with you she should commit to not meet any of those two persons (I don't know if a NC letter applies with the bartender but with the first POSOM it should be necesary).

even if you were technically divorcing when she had the encounter with the bartender is still a toxic person for your relationship.

also, are you two exclusive? or better said, are you commit to not see no one else in the process or you are open and she is the one who have to make the heavy lifting to win you back (to even have a chance with you)?


----------



## LongWalk

HTD,

Nice to hear from you. I gather that by holding pattern, you mean the divorce is still on hold. It would have been good for her to be on her own as a divorced woman to drive home how much you mean to her. 

If her presence makes you happy, I guess that is what counts. She must feel that she is on probation. How does she characterize it? Does she ever ask you when she will be out of the dog house?

Are you afraid that your love for her is dying and there is nothing she can really do? Does her trying to please you just seem pathetic?

I now wonder – maybe Turnera will respond – what a woman thinks about her vagina after it has gotten her into trouble. Can it save the day or is its value damaged? It must be very strange to be a wife who had a husband who was basically always horny to be skeptical about sex because of the emotional betrayal.

HTD,

Your wife should be a good mother and bust her butt to make money to take your family on a cruise.


----------



## weightlifter

Has she gotten a job?
Restarted classes? How far along that process is she?
Gentle reminder. Dude even if ya date and live with her you should have let the D final to restart the perma alimony clock. She crossed the line in the sand and got away with it. She got some strange and you got Mr Hand.


----------



## LongWalk

I got a PM from HTD. I hope he'll share it here.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> I got a PM from HTD. I hope he'll share it here.


Good? Bad? Ugly?


----------



## LongWalk

It's not my decision to pass judgment on a PM


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> It's not my decision to pass judgment on a PM


You can forward it to me, I'm judgmental.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> You can forward it to me, I'm judgmental.


Me too!


----------



## tom67

LW just say in general is he doing okay?
Tell him to come back.


----------



## Sports Fan

Last time this happened the relationship fizzled and she came to her senses. Dude WTF. Man up. Sorry you are going through this but you cant sit back and let her get porked by another man until he is done with her.

Its time to give her the arse. 

1) Stop supporting her
2) Take all the money or at least half from the joint account 
3) Visit a Lawyer find out your rights and get the ball rolling.

Do a complete 180 on her. Do not beg, do not try to reason with her. As much as this will hurt it needs to be done.

If you truly want to save your marriage you must first be prepared to blow your whole deal up sky high. Once your wife realises this and you will not tolerate this foul behavour she might come to her senses.

Though it is beyond me why you would want to take her back given her history of indescritions.

You are now paying the price for rugsweeping and inaction on her past behavours.

Its not too late to stand up now and be counted. At the very least you will salvage your self respect.


----------



## warlock07

I'm guessing that they are back together. They have some kind of weird dynamic going on that keeps them in the other's life.


----------



## weightlifter

Disagreed with his decision to not follow thru with D then date her but it is his life.

Hope he is good.

LW. Good work on keeping secrets secret.

Sportsfan. This thing went down LAST year. Its water under the bridge at this point.


----------



## hard_to_detach

Hi everyone. We celebrated our 15 year anniversary back in April and both started wearing out wedding rings again. We also canceled the divorce proceedings. Our oldest is doing better but my wife is still struggling. 

She was writing out a message on FB to the OM back in August just to get some feelings out and she says she accidentally sent it. Well, he responded and basically confirmed everything I had told her last year. He wasn't into her enough to fight for their relationship and it was basically just an affair. He's been in a relationship for over 9 months now, compared to their 80 day fling.

We talked about it and she says that gave her closure and she apologized that she had to go through and put me through that to figure things out. I'm still not convinced this is going to work long term but for now we're getting by. She is open with her passwords and not hiding anything and not contacting any of the people I have a problem with. Ultimately, she will need to get some therapy and then we will need some counseling but for now we're just trying to get by with the money we are putting out for the teenager.

I still need closure with her actions in the past as well. She needs to come clean on everything she's done or we will never work, but I don't feel like we can talk about that until she gets some help and we can address it in counseling. Until then, we will continue as we have for the last year, which has been pretty good. I can live with things the way they are for the next few years. If therapy and counseling don't help then I can make a decision then.


----------



## turnera

Are you randomly checking her phone/computer?


----------



## LongWalk

Your wife was very afraid of divorce when it came to actually moving out and getting a job. How do you feel about that now?

It must perplex you that OM was not a winner and yet she still felt attached to him.

She was unfaithful to OM with you and that helped to destroy their relationship.

Although the affair was not be resolved properly, perhaps at this point the most important thing is to look for her commitment to self improvement. If her self esteem were better, perhaps she would understand how to be a better wife and mother. Of course, this is up to her. You can require her to go to IC as a condition for not divorcing.

Is she taking care of her health? Is she more stable now?

Do you enjoy her company? Is she physically affectionate in a non-sexual way? Hugs, touching?


----------



## hard_to_detach

Yes, I do randomly check her phone, computer, and email. No sign of anything.

She has expressed her desire for us to renew our vows and have a wedding type event and reception. This is something she has always wanted because we didn't have that with our wedding. I have told her that I am nowhere near that place but that it is a possibility in the future. She understands and knows it will take years before I'm ready to do something like that.

She IS taking care of her self physically. She taken up running and we've done some 5k's together. In some ways she is more stable, but in others she is not...hard to explain. She needs to work on her self esteem and self confidence. She has been a better wife and mother in the last year than she has in our entire life. For the most part I do enjoy her company, but there are times when I am completely turned off by her. Those times are when we are talking about some of the things that she needs to address in therapy. I know she is avoiding going to therapy, not because she doesn't want to go, but because the few sessions she has gone to have been painful and she's afraid of reopening all the wounds from her past.

Yes, she is physically affectionate in a nonsexual way more than she ever has been before. I've been continuing to focus on my self improvement and it's paying off because my careering has been taking off this year and continues to look good. Unfortunately that results in less time for me to work out so I've gained back about 5-10lbs of the stress weight I lost last year. I still look better than I did two years ago but not where I want to be. More importantly though, I FEEL better than I have in the past. I focus more on what I want and my own happiness and less on hers.

I know many of you don't agree with the path I've taken, and part of me agrees, but for the time being this is what works for me and my boys. My oldest is doing better than he has in years and my youngest is entering the difficult teen years and needs some stability in the house. My outlook on our relationship is more realistic now.


----------



## weightlifter

Let me be clear.

I disgree because of the line in the sand drawn ... if this goes physical...

But WHOSE ROAD is it to travel?

I wish you the best. I hope it works for you. I wish you happiness.


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> Let me be clear.
> 
> I disgree because of the line in the sand drawn ... if this goes physical...
> 
> But WHOSE ROAD is it to travel?
> 
> I wish you the best. I hope it works for you. I wish you happiness.


I wish you the best also.


----------



## bandit.45

I think you are rug sweeping, but if you can live with it then who am I to say what's right for you? We all make choices as to what we can and cannot live with. 

If anything, do what you can to keep improving yourself. Don't wait around at the station for her to jump,on your train. Get that engine going and move forward with your life. She either jumps on board or she gets left behind. 

If she is not willing to go to IC, start fixing her issues, and do the hard work to change herself and create some personal boundaries, this tenuous marriage is going to collapse. She WILL cheat on you again in the future. She's got a taste for it now and she thinks you will let her off the hook again like you did this time. 

Good luck.


----------



## LongWalk

This is not unreasonable.


----------



## happyman64

HTD



> My outlook on our relationship is more realistic now.


I think that is all that matters.

I also agree with you that she needs therapy. She needs the old wounds reopened so she can address them with a professional and truly be a whole, happy individual that can then commit to a loving, respectful, sexual marriage.

Glad you did not give up on her or your marriage.

HM


----------



## hard_to_detach

We celebrated 16 years in April. We are coming up on 2 years since D day. She started going to therapy at the beginning of the year and is making progress. It's been very hard for her but she is putting in the effort and being honest with herself, her therapist, and me.

Our good friends are going through a very similar situation, the wife has a guy lined up and the husband just found out about it. I have been giving him guidance and recommended he come here for support. He didn't agree with me taking my wife back but now that he is in a similar situation he has changed his tune and admitted that he had no idea what I was going through. It's really sad to see them going through this.

As for me and my wife, things continue to get better and I see a real change in her. I would say our relationship in healthier and stronger than it has ever been.

I'd like to provide more details but don't have a lot of time, just wanted to give an update. I'll write more when I can.


----------



## GusPolinski

Congrats... I guess...


----------



## weightlifter

I'm glad you are happy htd. Hope it all works out.


----------



## GusPolinski

Tony55 said:


> Don't worry, even if you do nothing, she'll do it for you a couple of years before your youngest graduates. So, if I'm doing the math right, you've got 5 more miserable years before she kicks you to the curb.


Only 3 years left according to these projections...


----------



## the guy

I hope she is phucking your lights out and making you her #1 priority...after all..isn't that what we all want out of a new relationship?


----------



## Summer4744

lol good luck. It seems like she had a mini midlife crisis and she wanted to explore seeing other people. When she realized her options weren't as good as she thought they would be she crawled back to her back up. You!


----------



## LongWalk

Summer,

You are right but HTD did something that not all betrayed spouses manage to do – he got stronger. Despite the pain he did not lash out at his WW. He guided her through her time of madness. JLD would approve if she read this thread.

It would be interesting to read what she has learned from nearly bungling her life.

I have a feeling HTD's WW tells their sons to listen to their father.

HTD,

Do you have contact with the old dude from the cruise?


----------



## imjustwatching

Well just be prepared for a future dday 
If she could do it once she could do it twice...


----------



## imjustwatching

imjustwatching said:


> Well just be prepared for a future dday
> If she could do it once she could do it twice...


Sorry my bad i saw your original post again
She already cheated 4 years before this? 
well if she could do it twice she could do it again .... you get the picture


----------



## GusPolinski

imjustwatching said:


> Well just be prepared for a future dday
> *If she could do it once she could do it twice...*


LOL. Too late... by at least a couple, if not a few.

Hell, maybe several.


----------



## LongWalk

She's an erratic person. Hard to Detach has been tough. I thought he should have divorced her to gain more leverage over her, but he never went through with it.

I'mjustwatching and Gus, don't you think his wife ended up wanting to be married to him? Or was it merely fear of striking out on her own that brought her round?


----------



## Roselyn

Hard To Detach: Your wife told you that she never loved you. Which part of what she told you that you do not understand? She flaunts her affair right in your face. This is not love. She married and stayed with you out of convenience.

You and your friend (who also has a cheating wife) need to see a psychologist to help you build your self-esteem. It is a matter of time when you will be confronted with the cheating behaviors again. Your wives do not love you, but see you as a meal ticket.

Wake up!


----------



## MattMatt

Roselyn said:


> Hard To Detach: Your wife told you that she never loved you. Which part of what she told you that you do not understand? She flaunts her affair right in your face. This is not love. She married and stayed with you out of convenience.
> 
> You and your friend (who also has a cheating wife) need to see a psychologist to help you build your self-esteem. It is a matter of time when you will be confronted with the cheating behaviors again. Your wives do not love you, but see you as a meal ticket.
> 
> Wake up!


Yes. It is amazing how many people who are indulging in sexual affairs suddenly realise that they never, ever loved their wife/husband!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

LongWalk said:


> She's an erratic person. Hard to Detach has been tough. I thought he should have divorced her to gain more leverage over her, but he never went through with it.
> 
> I'mjustwatching and Gus, don't you think his wife ended up wanting to be married to him? Or was it merely fear of striking out on her own that brought her round?


I won't presume to know what brought Mr. and Mrs. HTD together in the first place. That said, it would seem obvious that what convinced Mrs. HTD to stick around was a sudden lack (from her perspective, anyway) of better alternatives.

And, while I understand that their MMF, MFF, and MMFF escapades don't really qualify as instances of infidelity, per se (at least not the instances where HTD was present... or at least gave informed consent), I'd be interested to hear both of their thoughts w/ respect to the degree to which all of it negatively impacted their marriage.


----------



## weightlifter

Htd is definitely wired differentlythan me.

Seeing another guy screwing my wife is a recipe for me getting life without parole and the other man getting to be a puddle of goo.


----------



## ConanHub

Uuhhhh... Sure.....

I just hope the kids get out of this healthy.

HTDs wife got a message from an old bf after years of marriage and starts fvcking him.

She tells her H to support her financially while she is getting banged by her pos.

POS gets what he wants from her, a cheap piece, after all, that is what she is, and then dumps her.

She doesn't want to be alone and financially responsible for herself and begs OP to take her back.

He does and somewhere along the way, you can throw in watching her get banged by other men. Not sure where that happened and don't want to know.

This is a stupid mess and I only have hope for the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

HTD reported the change in his wife's attitude. She went on the cruise with him and admitted to the cruise companions that sex with HTD was better.

Once WW cheated on POSOM, who never got the job he was seeking, that relationship collapsed. 

HTD was going to divorce her and she wanted to stay. One can say that she just was too lazy to make new life for herself. 

Perhaps that was part of it. But HTD also seemed to have raised his sex ranking.

My read would be that she actually stopped believing that she would do better by virtue of transactional sex. Did she come to appreciate HTD in some more profound way?

We cannot go inside her head. That is why one may infer that she is loyal if she respects him in relation to their children.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

I also think that HTD was going to be happy with her or without her.

And she knew it.


----------

