# Online affairs



## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

Why do men have online affairs when they say they would never cheat on their wives in person? 

Are they unhappy?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

maybe they do not want to cheat, and feel that being online is a halfway measure that KEEPS them from cheating.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

There are a host of reasons

1. No sex at home and this is ( they think) not as bad as physical cheating
2. They are lonely and feel some safety in the anonymity of a screen
3. They think they will not be caught and it is harmless
4. It's not really cheating as no physical contact is involved
5. They want the emotional connection which is lacking in their marriages
6. The girl is hot (or appears to be) the wife is not, so ego kibbles are available
7. The H is just a scoundrel with no loyalty or love for his wife
8. He is a cheater and this is just a prelude to what he will eventually do i.e. full on cheating


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

Would it be cheating if cybersex is involved?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

blueberries said:


> Would it be cheating if cybersex is involved?


If they are in a committed relationship, why would it be any different?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

Wouldn't it be like reading an erotica? Instead they're just reading texts?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

blueberries said:


> Wouldn't it be like reading an erotica? Instead they're just reading texts?


If there is another person on the other end... it's infidelity.

If it's just for gratuitous pleasure that does not take away from the relationship with the spouse's agreement that it is not harming anything in the relationship, it would be relationship acceptable.

If it's done in secret or you are afraid to seek permission rather than forgiveness... you have your answer.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Me and my H we consider it cheating.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

Basically if 2 people meet online and found each other emotionally and physically attractive where they begin a virtual relationship that involves cybersex. Even if they agree to never meet in person and to not ever take away from their primary relationships, it would still be infidelity no matter what?

Since they will never physically have intercourse and aren't depriving their spouses of anything, why would this be problematic?

Actually what if this enhances the primary relationships sexually?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

blueberries said:


> Basically if 2 people meet online and found each other emotionally and physically attractive where they begin a virtual relationship that involves cybersex. Even if they agree to never meet in person and to not ever take away from their primary relationships, it would still be infidelity no matter what?
> 
> Since they will never physically have intercourse and aren't depriving their spouses of anything, why would this be problematic?
> 
> Actually what if this enhances the primary relationships sexually?


As the victim/BS of my husbands cybercheating, which then progressed to in-person cheating, I can tell you that 'agreeing to never meet in person' is just a bullsh1t way of trying to make yourself feel better if you're the one cheating.

You can ask about whether something's cheating or not, and you WILL get whatever answer you're looking for, because 'cheating' means different things to different couples. Some women are perfectly fine not knowing what their husbands are up to and sticking their heads in the sand. Some men think that whatever their wives don't know won't hurt them. I think they're deluded in both those cases, but what I think doesn't matter. What matters is what YOU think.

You sound to me like a guy looking to cheat on his wife and wanting someone to tell him it isn't really cheating. 

In ANY relationship, if it's a secret you don't want your spouse to discover, it's wrong. If it involves a specific member of the opposite sex in ANY way, it's cheating. Whether it's in person or not. For some couples, porn = cheating, if they have defined it that way. For some it doesn't. But carrying on on-line with a specific someone or someones for sexual gratification is going to = cheating for pretty much most couples. For example, paying for a 'model' to strip for you in real time would be considered cheating.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

@Hope1964 summed it up perfectly

If its a secret from your spouse....its wrong

(Does not apply to gifts, holidays, or whats in your head when you spank that monkey)


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

blueberries said:


> Basically if 2 people meet online and found each other emotionally and physically attractive where they begin a virtual relationship that involves cybersex. Even if they agree to never meet in person and to not ever take away from their primary relationships, it would still be infidelity no matter what?
> 
> Since they will never physically have intercourse and aren't depriving their spouses of anything, why would this be problematic?
> 
> Actually what if this enhances the primary relationships sexually?


CHEATING

CHEATING

AND STILL CHEATING!! Are you looking for someone here to tell you that what you are doing is OK just because you haven't touched the other person?? Because that isn't going to happen.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> Are you looking for someone here to tell you that what you are doing is OK just because you haven't touched the other person?? Because that isn't going to happen.


That's exactly what's going on here, and someone WILL tell him what he wants to hear eventually.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

blueberries said:


> Basically if 2 people meet online and found each other emotionally and physically attractive where they begin a virtual relationship that involves cybersex. Even if they agree to never meet in person and to not ever take away from their primary relationships, it would still be infidelity no matter what?
> 
> Since they will never physically have intercourse and aren't depriving their spouses of anything, why would this be problematic?
> 
> Actually what if this enhances the primary relationships sexually?


If you're so certain this kind of behavior doesn't detract from the marriage and isn't infidelity, why don't you discuss it openly and honestly with your spouse? Answer: Because you know it's infidelity.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blueberries said:


> Wouldn't it be like reading an erotica? Instead they're just reading texts?


You mean texts from real live women? Who are hearing all about his hard-ons, his wish list...all that stuff he's supposed to be sharing with his wife?

And texts to him detailing what they'd like to do to him?

This is WAY beyond reading books or looking at videos. This is sharing of YOUR self.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blueberries said:


> Basically if 2 people meet online and found each other emotionally and physically attractive where they begin a virtual relationship that involves cybersex. Even if they agree to never meet in person and to not ever take away from their primary relationships, it would still be infidelity no matter what?
> 
> Since they will never physically have intercourse and aren't depriving their spouses of anything, why would this be problematic?
> 
> Actually what if this enhances the primary relationships sexually?


What about the lying that you have now brought into the marriage? Every time you're with your wife, you're LIVING A LIE. When you look her in the eyes and don't tell the truth, you are LYING to her. When you kiss her and don't tell her you've fantasized kissing that other woman's lips, you are LYING to her. When you try out new routines you and your cyber partner figured out and got your rocks off by talking about, your wife is living a LIE because she'll think you thought of them for HER.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

turnera said:


> You mean texts from real live women? Who are hearing all about his hard-ons, his wish list...all that stuff he's supposed to be sharing with his wife?
> 
> And texts to him detailing what they'd like to do to him?
> 
> This is WAY beyond reading books or looking at videos. This is sharing of YOUR self.


You know what else is cheating? Happy ending massages.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> That's exactly what's going on here, and someone WILL tell him what he wants to hear eventually.




I'll do it. 

But OP's words imply it is a she, not a he.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

blueberries said:


> Wouldn't it be like reading an erotica? Instead they're just reading texts?


Erotica is written for an anonymous audience and published for all to read. 

Cyber sex is a sexual exchange between the participants, is not published for all to read, and is personally interactive.

Erotica and cyber sex are clearly not at all the same thing.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> I'll do it.
> 
> But OP's words imply it is a she, not a he.


In the first post I thought so too. Subsequent posts not so much. Frankly, they imply someone messing with us more than anything.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> Frankly, they imply someone messing with us more than anything.



Yep. I'm moving on.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

I'm a woman, not a man. I will share my story when I get a chance. Just wanted to clear up that misunderstanding for now.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> You know what else is cheating? Happy ending massages.


Ouch...


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

Sorry, online affairs are cheating...regardless of touch. 

They are one person expressing intimacy to a person that is not their partner.

If something is lacking in the relationship that you desire, bring it up with your partner.

If your partner cannot provide that, decide if you can live with it to keep your partner, or move on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

blueberries said:


> I'm a woman, not a man. I will share my story when I get a chance. Just wanted to clear up that misunderstanding for now.




Share your story when you are ready. Canned questions and canned answers are of limited use. We can give specific help for your situation.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

I know this is a lot to ask, but I hope that my story will be received without judgment, and I apologize if any information shared causes any betrayed spouses anger.

My marriage is not lacking in any aspect. We are happy, with the normal ups and downs of any relationship. I was not and am not seeking anything outside of my marriage. 

I met the OM a few weeks ago through a game I've been playing for years with a handful of friends. He invited me to play with him and I accepted as I would with anyone. A few days later, he messaged me and we started exchanging messages about how he was whooping my ass and how badly I was losing. He seemed friendly and nice and we continued sending a couple messages a day about the game. Then it escalated to real time chatting when I sent a reply back and he was online and replied immediately. This was when we learned that we had so much fun talking to each other. Lots of laughter and energy about random stuff.

He continued to message me more and more; first thing when he woke up and last thing before he went to bed, and at random times throughout the day. I knew he was attracted to me. 

I'm a very attractive person and I often receive chats from men that want to play with me, but I always kept is friendly and appropriate. So I was not surprised to realize his attraction for me. I really wasn't interested in anything other than playing a game.

He started flirting with me and complimenting on how pretty I look. He confessed that he saw my photo in the suggestion list and thought I was pretty so he sent me an invite to play with him. I still kept it friendly but honestly, I was enjoying talking to him and he started becoming quite endearing with the way he spoke and how he expressed himself. I wasn't impressed with his compliments or anything, but I did notice with his personality. He was energetic and we just clicked so much talking and I enjoy a good chat with a friend. During this time, we told each other that we're married. 

Then his messages became more "romantic" and less platonic. At times, it felt like he was trying to steer the conversation towards sex and I had stopped him and told him I didn't like where the conversation was headed and he apologized. I asked him how he thinks his wife would feel if she knew what he was doing. He said that it wasn't cheating since nothing would happen. No private parts would touch. It's just chatting. I continued to disagree with him. 

We also exchanged some photos of us; nothing sexual at all. The pics I sent him were from my facebook. He absolutely loved them. I'm not that physically attracted to him but I do like his personality. 

It went on for days that I would try to convince him that it would be wrong to do anything sexual with anyone online. Many times asking him how he would feel if he found out his wife was doing the same. He asked me not to bring her up again so I respected that.

In one of our conversations, he revealed to me about his fetish and his fantasies. I asked him if his wife knew about it and he said yes but she just simply isn't into it when they tried it.

By this point, our chats have now become a daily routine for us. I don't want to lie but I started to look for his messages. We talked about many random things. In one conversation, he asked me to role play with him and I agreed since it was not inappropriate. We were just beating each other up through typing out our actions. It was nothing sexual at all, until he sent me a text completely left field and as soon as I read it, I was completely turned on immediately! He continued to send me more and as I read them I was even more turned on. He then asked me to touch myself and since I was so turned on, I couldn't even think and did it and...well, I came several times. Sorry for TMI. 

I was so embarrassed about it and immediately told him I felt remorseful and terrible and that I had betrayed my husband. He seemed happy and quite satisfied. He told me not to worry since it would not take away from our marriages and that it wasn't wrong because we never touched and would never meet in person as we are half the world away. It was getting late for me so he suggested that I should go ahead and sleep and I did. It ended there that night.

In the morning, I woke up and there were messages waiting for me, saying good morning and such. I still felt really bad but at the same time, it was exciting for me since it felt really good. I have never in my life experienced any type of sexting or cybersex or ever thought about it before. I never wanted to do anything with another man. This was all so frigging new to me. 

I googled about it and found a few articles saying that cybersex isn't wrong since there is no physical touch. So I felt a little better?

We chatted all day about how I shouldn't feel guilty and that night, one thing led to another, and he had a happy ending.

We set some rules such as no nudies, no taking away from our spouses, living our lives as we did before we met. And that we simply only exist in the cyber world. 

I don't feel any different for my husband and I do not fantasize about OM. When I'm with my H, I'm with him and enjoy sex with him as I always have. I don't know how OM feels as he doesn't like to talk about his marriage. 

I know you all must feel I'm a monster. I swear I wasn't looking for anything extra-marital. I feel like I got seduced and now while I don't like it, I also love it.

He is so lovable and charming. And I'm beginning to feel that he and I both may have become a little emotionally attached. He messages me everyday and he's always looking for me and sometimes he messages just to tell me he is thinking of me. He shares things with me that his wife doesn't know.

So here is my problem, I want to end it but I also want a reason to not give it up. Yes, I'm a terrible person, but I feel something has been released in me and I don't know how to shut it out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And...you don't call this cheating? Are you serious?

Here's a good 'cheating test' - can you tell your husband all this? Without him getting upset? No? Then it's cheating.

Here's your solution: Print your last post out and hand it to your husband. Then sit back and deal with it. Whatever comes.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

A few months ago I discovered my H having a very similar online affair in a game app. He had been having cybersex with her for 6 months... often in our bed while I lay sleeping next to him. He also believed it was no big deal. He was wrong.

When I discovered the chats, I was devastated. Prior to that I thought we had a great 20 year marriage. We had great sex, great kids, and I never thought he would be capable of something like this. Unfortunately, he still believes it is no big deal, so now it is an even bigger deal that has all but destroyed our marriage. We sleep in separate bedrooms now... no more sex, no more trust. All destroyed so he could get his rocks off with another woman because it was exciting. It didn't matter that he wasn't looking for it. It didn't matter that the affair never went physical. It still ruined EVERYTHING.

Are you prepared to lose your marriage over this?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

I never said it wasn't cheating. I was simply asking if there was anyway this wasn't cheating. Perhaps someone out there has a different opinion. I know that forum posters in TAM are swayed in one direction. 

I cannot tell my husband this, obviously. I'm not minimizing anything I did with OM but just wish if it was possible at all to have something exist solely in cyberspace.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueberries said:


> Would it be cheating if cybersex is involved?


It's cheating either way.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueberries said:


> I never said it wasn't cheating. I was simply asking if there was anyway this wasn't cheating. Perhaps someone out there has a different opinion. I know that forum posters in TAM are swayed in one direction.
> 
> I cannot tell my husband this, obviously. I'm not minimizing anything I did with OM but just wish if it was possible at all to have something exist solely in cyberspace.


Are you prepared for him to find out in his own?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueberries said:


> Wouldn't it be like reading an erotica? Instead they're just reading texts?


LOL.

Nope.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

blueberries said:


> I never said it wasn't cheating. I was simply asking if there was anyway this wasn't cheating. Perhaps someone out there has a different opinion. I know that forum posters in TAM are swayed in one direction.
> 
> I cannot tell my husband this, obviously. I'm not minimizing anything I did with OM but just wish if it was possible at all to have something exist solely in cyberspace.




It's not cheating.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueberries said:


> Basically if 2 people meet online and found each other emotionally and physically attractive where they begin a virtual relationship that involves cybersex. Even if they agree to never meet in person and to not ever take away from their primary relationships, it would still be infidelity no matter what?


Yep.



blueberries said:


> Since they will never physically have intercourse and aren't depriving their spouses of anything, why would this be problematic?


I have a feeling you're going to find out very soon.



blueberries said:


> Actually what if this enhances the primary relationships sexually?


LOL. Your hamster is working overtime.

It's a relationship of a romantic and sexual nature that you're keeping secret from your spouse.

That makes it infidelity, which makes it wrong.

Full stop.

If you want it to NOT be cheating, then do it with -- and _only_ with -- your husband's informed consent.

Absent that it's cheating.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

heartbroken50 said:


> A few months ago I discovered my H having a very similar online affair in a game app. He had been having cybersex with her for 6 months... often in our bed while I lay sleeping next to him. He also believed it was no big deal. He was wrong.
> 
> When I discovered the chats, I was devastated. Prior to that I thought we had a great 20 year marriage. We had great sex, great kids, and I never thought he would be capable of something like this. Unfortunately, he still believes it is no big deal, so now it is an even bigger deal that has all but destroyed our marriage. We sleep in separate bedrooms now... no more sex, no more trust. All destroyed so he could get his rocks off with another woman because it was exciting. It didn't matter that he wasn't looking for it. It didn't matter that the affair never went physical. It still ruined EVERYTHING.
> 
> Are you prepared to lose your marriage over this?


I'm really sorry to hear this happened to you. I sometimes think of his wife and feel really bad.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

blueberries said:


> I'm really sorry to hear this happened to you. I sometimes think of his wife and feel really bad.


But do you feel bad when you think of your husband? 
If the answer is no, then you are already checked out. Get a divorce and let him find someone else that will love him enough to respect marital boundaries.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > I never said it wasn't cheating. I was simply asking if there was anyway this wasn't cheating. Perhaps someone out there has a different opinion. I know that forum posters in TAM are swayed in one direction.
> ...


No?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

heartbroken50 said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > I'm really sorry to hear this happened to you. I sometimes think of his wife and feel really bad.
> ...


Of course I do. Nothing has changed for my husband. I still love him dearly and feel a lot of remorse.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueberries said:


> Of course I do. Nothing has changed for my husband. I still love him dearly and feel a lot of remorse.


Then stop what you're doing, confess it to your husband, and fully recommit yourself to your marriage.

Until you do that, what you're feeling isn't any _meaningful_ type of remorse.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

blueberries said:


> No?




If your husband let's you do this, then it is not cheating. Therefore only your husband can determine or say if this is cheating. And since he doesn't know about it, by definition it cannot be cheating.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

blueberries said:


> Of course I do. Nothing has changed for my husband. I still love him dearly and feel a lot of remorse.




The thing is, you have changed and how you act around your husband has changed. How you feel about him has changed. You either don't see it or don't want to see it. The change is there nevertheless.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> If your husband let's you do this, then it is not cheating. Therefore only your husband can determine or say if this is cheating. And since he doesn't know about it, by definition it cannot be cheating.


It wouldn't be cheating if -- and _only_ if -- he'd given _informed_ consent.

Failure to obtain said consent -- either by his explicit refusal or by willfully denying him the option to either give or deny it -- makes it cheating.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You want to have your cake and eat it too. You are MARRIED. Do you not understand exactly what that means? That means you vowed your loyalty to ONE MAN for the rest of your life. You have ZERO respect for him. You were on the right track at the beginning of these conversations with this guy, and you allowed him to sway you to do what HE wanted....you are weak and insecure. Do you have ANY IDEA how many other women he is doing this with?? I can guarantee you SEVERAL! You are no special snowflake here, you mean nothing to him...you are nothing but a number in his lineup. 

You are making your husband look stupid. How does that make you feel?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> It wouldn't be cheating if -- and _only_ if -- he'd given _informed_ consent.
> 
> Failure to obtain said consent -- either by his explicit refusal or by willfully denying him the option to either give or deny it -- makes it cheating.




Gus, I'm going somewhere with this ridiculous reasoning.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

blueberries said:


> No?


Thats exactly what you came here wanting to hear, right? Blue is screwing with you, OF COURSE ITS CHEATING!!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Gus, I'm going somewhere with this ridiculous reasoning.


Then consider my reply the "Director's Commentary" for those watching from home.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blueberries said:


> I cannot tell my husband this, obviously.


Why not? I see nothing obvious about it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

blueberries said:


> *Why do men have online affairs when they say they would never cheat on their wives in person?*


*Please don't attribute this statement to males only!*


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Not surprising she hasn't returned....


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Told you he/she/it is messing with us. If not it's just another remorseless cheating liar.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

So are you all saying that if OM and I continue our little secret, how we feel about our spouses will eventually change?

He said nothing will ever change how he feels for his wife and I feel the same way about my husband. We agree this is just for fun.

I have asked for some space and time, so nothing is going on anymore. Though I still would like to hear from experienced posters about the damage an online affair would have on a marriage, even if the spouse never finds out.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> Not surprising she hasn't returned....


 I have a life...I will post when I can and if I need to.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You are directing a significant amount of romantic and sexual energy -- along w/ what is probably a significant amount of what would otherwise be time that you could spend w/ your husband -- into a relationship w/ another man.

There is no realistic way for that to continue w/o impacting your relationship w/ your husband, and to think otherwise is both naive and short-sighted.

Tell you what, answer this -- what precautions have you taken to date in order to conceal this relationship from your husband?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueberries said:


> I have a life...I will post when I can and if I need to.


Between the time that you spend w/ OM and the time that you spend here, what's left for your husband and family?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

My husband is always busy with work so I have absolutely taken 0 time away from him.

The times that I speak with the OM are the times my husband is busy; I have not once chosen to spend time with OM over husband.

As for sex, nothing has changed either. When my hubby wants it, he gets it.

As for my kids, I'm with them all day so they get plenty of me.

As for concealing this, again I have done absolutely nothing extra. H still has the pw to my phone and I leave it lying around for my kids to play with and also for H to use if he needs to. The only extra thing I do now is press a "delete conversation" button in a chat app.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

blueberries said:


> So are you all saying that if OM and I continue our little secret, how we feel about our spouses will eventually change?
> 
> He said nothing will ever change how he feels for his wife and I feel the same way about my husband. We agree this is just for fun.
> 
> I have asked for some space and time, so nothing is going on anymore. Though I still would like to hear from experienced posters about the damage an online affair would have on a marriage, even if the spouse never finds out.


I have never had an online affair, but being in IT for 34 years as a network and mail systems admin and part of a dozen investigations concerning such behavior through records requests, I have seen the outcomes... not one marriage remained intact, and 3/4 of them were women in the organization. 

The damage? They lost what mattered most, people around them never looked at them the same with trust... if you will betray/forfeit your spouse, how can I trust you to be truthful with me when your values have a price.

I would like to say this again... If there is another person on the other end... it's infidelity.

This has no hidden meaning... you are engaging with a living breathing person who takes away the value of living an honest relationship with respect, which you trade for deceit through desire.

Trusted love is not to be discounted so quickly... and as it is yours to do with as you wish, your husband may not see things as you do in the end as actions are the one thing we truly own.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

What is the game that you play with OM?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> What is the game that you play with OM?


Words with Friends


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

I understand the consequences if it's found out. Perhaps we're naive enough to think that it wouldn't change our marriages for the worst.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

blueberries said:


> Words with Friends


The Facebook of word games... it's basically a scrabble dating app you know.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

blueberries said:


> I understand the consequences if it's found out. Perhaps we're naive enough to think that it wouldn't change our marriages for the worst.




My H never thought he would get caught either. Didn't work out so well for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

heartbroken50 said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > I understand the consequences if it's found out. Perhaps we're naive enough to think that it wouldn't change our marriages for the worst.
> ...


How did you catch him?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > Words with Friends
> ...


I have been playing this game for years with a handful of friends. Not using the FB app but through the game app itself.

It wasn't like this before. People who weren't on your FB couldn't ever see your full name or your photo. The only way to start new matches with someone random was through auto-match function. You got a random person with no photo.

In the past year or so, it has changed completely. No idea it has become a dating app.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blueberries said:


> I understand the consequences if it's found out. Perhaps we're naive enough to think that it wouldn't change our marriages for the worst.


:surprise:

You can't be serious.

Sure, honey, keep on doing phone sex with your phone buddy; doesn't matter to me...

So your H is busy all the time. I take it you're feeling neglected? Is he busy working all the time, or doing other things?


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

blueberries said:


> How did you catch him?




We had just had some great morning sex... something we did rather often as I work from home and have a flexible schedule.

While still coming down, the alarm on his phone went off. The phone had somehow ended up under the covers. I fished it out and swiped the screen to turn off the alarm. It was open to the game app chat, and a very graphic cybersex session.

Good times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > I understand the consequences if it's found out. Perhaps we're naive enough to think that it wouldn't change our marriages for the worst.
> ...


I already said I asked for time and space so nothing is happening anymore.

And it isn't as you put it. It's not about sex. We genuinely have awesome chats about anything and everything under the sun.

Anyway, I'm not feeling neglected. H works from home and I'm also home with the kids. I'm happy for the space and freedom when he works. 

I admit our marriage isn't perfect but whose is?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

heartbroken50 said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > How did you catch him?
> ...


I'm sorry to hear that. Have you both fixed your marriage?

We don't use the game app chat; moved to a real chatting app. Luckily we don't often talk a lot about sex and I always delete conversation after.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blueberries said:


> I already said I asked for time and space so nothing is happening anymore.
> 
> And it isn't as you put it. It's not about sex. We genuinely have awesome chats about anything and everything under the sun.
> 
> ...


Then why aren't you talking to your husband about everything under the sun?

ANY affair involves giving ANOTHER PERSON what you are now not giving your spouse.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > I already said I asked for time and space so nothing is happening anymore.
> ...


Because he only likes to talk about work, and it isn't fun talking to him. He gets angry if I don't agree with him. I'm a dominant person and always stand up for my opinions, unless proven wrong, and often times, we end up arguing because he can't stand that I don't agree with him and won't give in to him. It's so ridiculous to me and frankly, emotionally tiring talking to him.

Over the years, I just got tired of it. So now I only talk to him about work and whatever he talks about. I don't talk to him about my interests anymore, not like he cares to anyway, or too busy with work to do so. It's not my fault really. Plus, this happened long before OM came, so again, not taking anything away from H.

I'm happy when I speak to OM. Conversations flow smoothly and we both enjoy it. We will never meet. I'm not physically attracted to him and frankly, I don't feel I'd ever want to do anything more than chatting. So why can't we continue this? I haven't once taken anything away from my hubby and neither has he with his wife. We chat when he's at work and before his bed time, which is when his wife is not available. Actually maybe he has, since he's giving me his fantasies and desires, but he said nothing will ever change how he feels for his wife so is what we're doing really "wrong?"

If I weren't speaking to OM, which is happening right now, nothing changes for my marriage. I don't talk to my hubby or spend time with him any more or any less.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

double posting.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then just divorce your husband. You seem to have no reason to be married to him, and you're doing nothing to fix the marriage, that I can see.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> Then just divorce your husband. You seem to have no reason to be married to him, and you're doing nothing to fix the marriage, that I can see.


Why must I divorce him? I'm not unhappy with my hubby. He's not unhappy with me. It's okay if we don't get to talk about me. I'm not needy. I know he has to work and it's a burden to have to provide for a family so I don't stress him about it. This is a hard stage for us as our 2 little ones are still small (3 and 1) and he's building his business so we both are preoccupied with our own responsibilities. That doesn't mean things are always going to be like this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No. They'll get worse. You have to understand on some level that what you're doing is wrong, right? And not just for moral reasons.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

blueberries said:


> Because he only likes to talk about work, and it isn't fun talking to him. He gets angry if I don't agree with him. I'm a dominant person and always stand up for my opinions, unless proven wrong, and often times, we end up arguing because he can't stand that I don't agree with him and won't give in to him. It's so ridiculous to me and frankly, emotionally tiring talking to him.


Do you not have any female friends you can talk to about stuff your husband has no interest in?



> Over the years, I just got tired of it. So now I only talk to him about work and whatever he talks about. I don't talk to him about my interests anymore, not like he cares to anyway, or too busy with work to do so. It's not my fault really. Plus, this happened long before OM came, so again, not taking anything away from H.


Your husband does care about you but probably just isn't a big talker. 
FWIW, my husband isn't a big talker either, our conversations are limited to his interests, he might display some interest in mine but gets this bug eyed look when I talk to much, I used to angry and storm off. But now I discuss certain topics with different friends and things have gotten better, I'm much happier with my husband now and am happy to discuss work stuff with him now. 



> I'm happy when I speak to OM. Conversations flow smoothly and we both enjoy it. We will never meet. I'm not physically attracted to him and frankly, I don't feel I'd ever want to do anything more than chatting. So why can't we continue this? I haven't once taken anything away from my hubby and neither has he with his wife. We chat when he's at work and before his bed time, which is when his wife is not available. Actually maybe he has, since he's giving me his fantasies and desires, but he said nothing will ever change how he feels for his wife so is what we're doing really "wrong?"


Because you have entered into a sort of sexual exchange with OM, I doubt he sees you as a friend, in reality he is using you for his sexual kicks, once he is fed up with you, his will dump you and you will end up back being lonely.



> If I weren't speaking to OM, which is happening right now, nothing changes for my marriage. I don't talk to my hubby or spend time with him any more or any less.


I think you should look into finding a platonic friend (better if it's female) either in real life or online, I would not recommend sharing personal pictures with a stranger again, they could be put online in a vicious way and your husband/family could find out.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

turnera said:


> No. They'll get worse. You have to understand on some level that what you're doing is wrong, right? And not just for moral reasons.


It's only wrong if it causes damage to the marriage in the long run, aside from moral reasons.

Are you saying that it inevitably will? I don't have much experience with this so I don't know what would happen. I'm just thinking if both marriages stay the same regardless if OM and I have contact, it shouldn't be problematic?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

I do have a female friend that I talk to about kids. 

I'm not a fan of talking about myself or my topics of interest. I just talk and wherever the conversation goes, it goes. This is why it's quite enjoyable talking to OM. We just talk.

I also don't have a need to talk about myself. Honestly, I find it quite boring when people or myself talk about themselves.

The only photos I exchanged are on my facebook which are public profile pics.

Well it's possible that he is what you say he is...but that's also like assuming I'm just like that, too, which I'm not.

And I know he doesn't see me as a friend. He has confessed his feelings. We don't always talk about sex so I don't know if I could say that is what he only wants, but it possibly could be. Recently, something came up and he told me he didn't want me to think all he wanted was sex so he avoids talking about it. But who knows, it could be exactly this. He's just an internet stranger after all.

I asked him for space; he is very respectful of my decision and confesses he's really sad but will respect whatever I decide to do. 

I'm not doing this because I feel lonely or neglected or anything. I'm quite self-sufficient and can be happy alone. How else would I survive a marriage with an entrepreneur? I actually prefer it this way; too many friends can sometime cause annoying drama. 

If OM decides in the long run that he is bored, well honestly, that is his loss, not mine and I'm not trying to sound ****y at all. I'm very attractive and men gravitate to my personality and if I really wanted to, I can easily find lots of men to talk to, online or in person. I just don't do this sort of thing but OM somehow caught me off guard. I do enjoy our chats so I'm trying to see if there is anything I can do to keep it going without it causing any damage to both our marriages.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

And the reason why I asked why men have online affairs is that I would like to know if he's unhappy with his marriage. If he is, then our "relationship" would hurt his marriage and this is something I would not want so I would have to end it. He doesn't talk about his marriage at all so I don't know why he'd ever seek for anything online. He said it is just for fun and I might actually believe this since fun is not something serious. I want to have fun too .


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

blueberries said:


> I do have a female friend that I talk to about kids.





> I'm not a fan of talking about myself or my topics of interest. I just talk and wherever the conversation goes, it goes. This is why it's quite enjoyable talking to OM. We just talk.


What about? What gap does he fulfill in your life for you? 



> Well it's possible that he is what you say he is...but that's also like assuming I'm just like that, too, which I'm not.
> 
> And I know he doesn't see me as a friend. He has confessed his feelings. We don't always talk about sex so I don't know if I could say that is what he only wants, but it possibly could be. Recently, something came up and he told me he didn't want me to think all he wanted was sex so he avoids talking about it. But who knows, it could be exactly this. He's just an internet stranger after all.


What feelings has he confessed for you? 



> I asked him for space; he is very respectful of my decision and confesses he's really sad but will respect whatever I decide to do.
> 
> I'm not doing this because I feel lonely or neglected or anything. I'm quite self-sufficient and can be happy alone. How else would I survive a marriage with an entrepreneur? I actually prefer it this way; too many friends can sometime cause annoying drama.


You are doing it because you are missing something, I don't know what that is, but maybe you just enjoy the random chats that's fine, but OM has feelings and will want something more if you continue down this path. 



> If OM decides in the long run that he is bored, well honestly, that is his loss, not mine and I'm not trying to sound ****y at all. I'm very attractive and men gravitate to my personality and if I really wanted to, I can easily find lots of men to talk to, online or in person. I just don't do this sort of thing but OM somehow caught me off guard. I do enjoy our chats so I'm trying to see if there is anything I can do to keep it going without it causing any damage to both our marriages.


If you can keep it platonic, a little late, but a good measure to try is how would you feel if your husband was having online chats with another women? But he just enjoyed the chats, didn't want to cheat intentionally, but the OW started to develop feeling for him, how would you feel? Would you want him to stop contact with her?


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

blueberries said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. Have you both fixed your marriage?
> 
> We don't use the game app chat; moved to a real chatting app. Luckily we don't often talk a lot about sex and I always delete conversation after.



We tried to fix it. Unfortunately my H has a similar attitude as you do, that it was all just harmless fun as he never thought he would be caught. 

He expected me to just get over it and move on. That showed me that he had a complete lack of respect for me and how I felt, and a complete lack of respect for our marriage and the life we had built together. _That is not love. _

Since he was never remorseful, we haven't been able to repair anything. Instead we are distanced greatly... living in separate bedrooms... broken trust... I have had to detach myself from him because it hurt too badly to care about someone who does not care back. 

There's more to the story, but if we did not have extenuating circumstances right now, I'm 99% sure we'd be divorcing over this. 

Maybe your H won't mind if he catches you... you seem to think so. But most marriages are based on love and trust (the good ones anyway) and once that's lost it's really hard to get back. Especially if the party that broke the trust doesn't even think it's a big deal.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

blueberries said:


> Why must I divorce him? I'm not unhappy with my hubby. He's not unhappy with me. It's okay if we don't get to talk about me. I'm not needy. I know he has to work and it's a burden to have to provide for a family so I don't stress him about it. This is a hard stage for us as our 2 little ones are still small (3 and 1) and he's building his business so we both are preoccupied with our own responsibilities. That doesn't mean things are always going to be like this.


We weren't unhappy either. I wasn't needy. If anything, my H is needy but I enjoyed giving and taking are of him. I liked feeling needed. 




turnera said:


> No. They'll get worse. You have to understand on some level that what you're doing is wrong, right? And not just for moral reasons.


 @turnera is 100% right. 
Things will get worse. They will get better too, but then they will get worse again. That's LIFE.
Marriage is full of ups and downs. 

When I think back to when my kids were little like yours? That was EASY. 

When your husband loses his job? That's hard.
When you lose a business and your house? That's hard.
When your kids have chronic illness? That's hard.
Teenagers? Any parent will tell you. That's hard.
When your parents die? That's hard.
When your husband gets terminal cancer? That's hard.

Life is HARD. It gets harder as you get older. Your marriage will be tested over and over again.
And yes, all of these things I've listed have tested my marriage, and for most of it we passed. 

Trouble is the moment you fail that test it makes you question EVERYTHING else.

BTW my H and I both have threads here about our story. Mine is more like a book, and in the Private Section. His is in the CWI Forum. It's a quick read... he didn't like what the good people here had to say either.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/350002-what-i-did-really-bad.html


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

heartbroken50 said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry to hear that. Have you both fixed your marriage?
> ...


I don't think it's harmless fun because I won't get caught. I think it's harmless fun if it doesn't change how we are with our spouses.

If H finds out and expresses his anger/sadness/resentment, etc, I would totally understand why he would feel that way and would not invalidate him as your H does to you. 

Since you both are distant, does he still have contact with OW freely now?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > I do have a female friend that I talk to about kids.
> ...


You've asked some good questions. I'm not sure what void he is filling. I don't even know if there is a void in me. Maybe, I like a little adult companionship since I'm always with my 2 little ones? 

If the shoes were switched, if H's feelings and actions toward me don't change then I don't think I would mind too much. Honestly, I can't say how I would feel unless I'm in that situation. 

When I asked OM for space and time to think, OM told me he couldn't ever be friends with me. He said he desires me so much and wouldn't know what to do if we just kept it platonic. That our one and only sexual encounter was so amazing for him and he doesn't want to stop. That he would miss me greatly if we never talked again. But because it is what I want, he will respect that and not contact me anymore until I'm ready to tell him what I've decided. So far so good, 1 day without contact.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

blueberries said:


> I don't think it's harmless fun because I won't get caught. I think it's harmless fun if it doesn't change how we are with our spouses.
> 
> If H finds out and expresses his anger/sadness/resentment, etc, I would totally understand why he would feel that way and would not invalidate him as your H does to you.
> 
> Since you both are distant, does he still have contact with OW freely now?


To my knowledge, no... but I don't trust that he doesn't.

I checked his phone for a while... but now? I NO LONGER CARE.

It's harmless fun for you. I doubt your H would feel the same. You are risking his love and trust.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

heartbroken50 said:


> blueberries said:
> 
> 
> > Why must I divorce him? I'm not unhappy with my hubby. He's not unhappy with me. It's okay if we don't get to talk about me. I'm not needy. I know he has to work and it's a burden to have to provide for a family so I don't stress him about it. This is a hard stage for us as our 2 little ones are still small (3 and 1) and he's building his business so we both are preoccupied with our own responsibilities. That doesn't mean things are always going to be like this.
> ...


Thank you for your insight. I have not experienced any of the hard times you've written yet. I will check out your thread.

I really appreciate this post.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

blueberries said:


> Thank you for your insight. I'm 33 years old and have not experienced any of the hard times you've written yet. I will check out your thread.
> 
> I really appreciate this post.



This is my thread... again, it's REALLY long (I guess I can get a bit wordy)... 
You'll need to get to 30 posts to access it since it's in the Private Section, so just a couple more.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/345378-caught-husband-sexting.html


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If you think it isn't affecting your spouse you are WAY WAY out to lunch.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blueberries said:


> Maybe, I like a little adult companionship since I'm always with my 2 little ones?


That's what girlfriends are for. 

Look at it this way. If your husband knew you had a male friend in the city you live in, and that you were spending, what, dozens, hundreds of hours talking to this friend every week, would he be ok with it?

If not, what you are doing is wrong. And harmful. And dishonest. And immoral. Now, if he just doesn't want to bother with you and is fine with you getting your male companionship elsewhere, go for it. But if that's not the case, you are HARMING your marriage.

What do your mother, father, and siblings say about your OM?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blueberries said:


> He said he desires me so much and wouldn't know what to do if we just kept it platonic. That our one and only sexual encounter was so amazing for him and he doesn't want to stop.


:surprise:
Wait, what? I thought you said this was strictly electronic. You started out saying ONLY cybersex and NEVER in person.

You screwed another guy when you're married? And you can say it's not hurting your marriage? Tell your husband that and then come back and tell us what he says.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

blueberries said:


> I don't think it's harmless fun because I won't get caught. I think it's harmless fun if it doesn't change how we are with our spouses.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

No, I didn't sleep with anyone. It's just online. He lives half a world away.


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

I understand what everyone is saying. Thank you. I know what to do now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Which is...?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

turnera said:


> Which is...?




Find someone closer?


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

Hi everyone, I'm back and would appreciate any insight, harsh or not.

So after this thread, I tried to end things and it failed. As I mentioned before, we started becoming attached so it was hard to just say good bye at the time. Fast forward a month and a half, I tried ending things again and it worked...temporarily for a week. We had no contact whatsoever. Then out of no where, he contacted me and told me that he had been thinking of me and missing me so much and would like for us to try again. I had already accepted that it was over and moved on...so I said no, but we started chatting casually again and after a couple of weeks, we were back.

Now I would like to understand what the heck it is that he and I are doing. 

Are we having an online affair? It doesn't feel like it. Our spouses > each other. Our marriages > our online relationship--I don't even know if you can even call it a relationship.

Are we a couple? It doesn't feel like it. We don't have any titles.

Last week, he told me he loves me, to which I said, "aww you love me" and he responded with "I do!!" I didn't say it back since I don't feel that I love him. He said he feels for me what a boyfriend would feel but we aren't boyfriend and girlfriend. We have been doing this for 4 months now. 

I looked up what an affair is and it all says, you start to put the AP above your spouse, choosing to spend time with the AP over the spouse, which neither one of us is doing. It also says you start to confide in each other about the problems of the marriage. Again neither one of us is doing that. He doesn't talk about his wife but the few times he did, it was about arguments they had or something...but nothing that is potentially problematic in their marriage. I don't ever tell him anything about my marriage in a bad light. Even when my husband and I have fights, I don't ever share it with OM. It doesn't feel like we are gravitating towards each other and away from our spouses at all.

But then there are things that we do that would indicate a form of infidelity. So what the heck are we doing?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

What you are doing is wrong and you know it. Your attempt at NC failed because you allowed it to. 

BLOCK his number. 
BLOCK his email. 
BLOCK him from all social media. 

It's not hard.

Him: "I love you." 
You: "I don't love you. Goodbye." 

It's not hard. 

Ignore any and all attempts to make contact again with you. 

It is quite literally not hard. 

When you've been free of him for long enough, you'll wonder why you bothered with him in the first place.


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## ukf32 (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm going through something similar but from the other side of the divide. My husband was playing an online game and began messaging a woman outside of the game. I found out last week. In fact, from the things you said, I thought for a moment it could have been you- much of what you said links directly to our situation (apart from the sexual stuff, apparently from what he tells me anyway. Feel free to read my feelings in more detail in my thread if you're curious).

You must know you are cheating. You are trying to rationalise/ legitimatise/ excuse your behaviour. You're in denial since there's 'no harm'. If (read: when. These things always come out eventually) your husband finds out, it WILL hurt him, it WILL destroy his trust in you, it WILL make him feel worthless, it WILL make him question your marriage and everything you've built together. What you need to ask yourself is whether you're prepared to pay that cost. Worst case scenario being he doesn't forgive you and you lose everything. End it. For your husband's sake, for his wife's sake and for your own.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Satya said:


> What you are doing is wrong and you know it. Your attempt at NC failed because you allowed it to.
> 
> BLOCK his number.
> BLOCK his email.
> ...




Actually it IS hard to do - because it's an affair.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Actually it IS hard to do - because it's an affair.


Fair enough, in my mind the actions themselves are not difficult. Getting the muster and willpower likely is. But sometimes you have to just rip that bandaid clear off instead of tearing it slowly millimeters at a time while wincing. 

Imagine how bad she'd feel if he started ghosting her. Taking the initiative herself spares her from a lot of pain later!


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## GhostSnow (Jul 16, 2014)

From my point of view i guess that's how men are, most of them can't hold themselves from chasing women. 
sometimes they use the "sex is dead" excuse to get out of it but as we all know they can hardly be tamed and want to have women around them the whole time


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

I've been there, I've had an online affair. My wife and I had had a disconnect and drifted apart. I tried to bring things back together but wasn't feeling it on her end. The affair started as just chatting, mostly about my marriage. Then it became more. I think for me it was the feeling of no expectations from the other woman involved. I could say whatever and didn't have to worry about acting on it. The woman I had the online affair with made me feel wanted and loved like what I was looking for from my wife.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

GhostSnow said:


> From my point of view i guess that's how men are, most of them can't hold themselves from chasing women.
> 
> sometimes they use the "sex is dead" excuse to get out of it but as we all know they can hardly be tamed and want to have women around them the whole time




That is sexist and a gross exaggeration.

I know plenty of the reverse. Women that just want male attention and manipulate them to get it. 

You sound hurt. What did your husband do?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Stop making lame excuses to convince yourself this is in any way ok, and BLOCK HIM. 

Or divorce your poor husband.


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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

blueberries said:


> Hi everyone, I'm back and would appreciate any insight, harsh or not.
> 
> So after this thread, I tried to end things and it failed. As I mentioned before, we started becoming attached so it was hard to just say good bye at the time. Fast forward a month and a half, I tried ending things again and it worked...temporarily for a week. We had no contact whatsoever. Then out of no where, he contacted me and told me that he had been thinking of me and missing me so much and would like for us to try again. I had already accepted that it was over and moved on...so I said no, but we started chatting casually again and after a couple of weeks, we were back.
> 
> ...




If you aren't ending it, then you ARE putting OM ahead of your H. Every day you stay in contact with OM and don't block him, you are risking getting caught and blowing up your marriage. You are willing to risk that. Why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## blueberries (Dec 4, 2016)

I broke it off yesterday and have blocked him for good. Thank you all.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

blueberries said:


> I broke it off yesterday and have blocked him for good. Thank you all.




Stay strong and do what is right, good, honest and respectful to your husband. I am single and married men want to talk to me because they say they are lacking in their marriage. Hum no!!!! They are wanting to cheat. If I am single and see it as cheating, I don't have a clue why you don't see it that way. You have been cheating period, no if ands or buts about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blueberries said:


> Now I would like to understand what the heck it is that he and I are doing.
> 
> Are we having an online affair? It doesn't feel like it. Our spouses > each other. Our marriages > our online relationship--I don't even know if you can even call it a relationship.
> 
> ...


You aren't researching enough. There are more than one kind of affairs. Especially for men. Many men - possibly most men - cheat for one reason - more sex. Remember that men typically have a higher sex drive than women. And remember that men typically grow up learning how to woo women to get in their pants. Like telling them they're amazing, beautiful, sexy, hot, desirable, all the things women need to hear to be willing to give up sex. 

You're just a booty call. Or a potential booty call. It's all in the game.


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