# Am I in the majority?



## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

My husband and I have been together for 20+ years. In the last 5 he has had a PA that lasted 3 years. For the last two years he has been home and we have been "working on it". Which usually amounts to me just dealing with whatever I'm feeling and him thinking everything is fine all the time, til we have an argument and he blows up at me making me feel like its not even worth feeling what I'm feeling.

Anyway....this week is the big yearly meeting of the managers for my husbands company. There are about 20-30 people in town taking part in this. The home office for the company is in LA, we are in TX. Two weeks ago when all of the hotel arrangements were being made the secretary at home office called my h asking if he wanted a room in the hotel with the other guys. He declined saying he was fine since DUH he lives in town! Last night was the first night of them being here...so he was "obligated" to do dinner with the group. He got home about 8:45 pm...no problem! I told him his daughters school program was on Thursday and he said "well that's the night that everyone is going out". Fine with me....your loss. Then he proceeds to say his boss asked him today at lunch why he didnt get a room at the hotel, last night they had stayed in the bar til 12 or 1 am and spent $700 on a tab. Obviously the hotel is now booked?! I told him I thought it was crazy that he lives in town and would go out and drink so much that he had to stay at a hotel all night when he could easily call me and I could come get him where ever he is. I am okay with him going out with everyone I just don't think its right for him to stay in a hotel room when he's only 30 miles from home. He went on to snidely say that "its okay I will just come home after dinner, you don't have to worry, blah blah blah" That's usually his come back when I "worry" about what he might be doing. 

I don't doubt that he is going out with the guys, he may or may not still be having an affair (at this point I have no idea), but I trust that he's just wanting to be part of the group even though he is not a huge drinker like some of them are. I asked him if when they have their yearly meeting in LA, near the others men's homes do they get rooms or do they go home.....he didn't answer that one.

He implied that it was stupid for him to go out and drink and call me at 12 or 1 to come and get him. As a wife, I'd rather have my husband at home in my bed then in a hotel room across town just because he is drunk.

Am I being unrealistic?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

What's the issue? He's not getting a hotel room and he's coming home after the dinner.

It's a work meeting where there is an implied requirement for some attendance plus it's good to meet with the guys after the business day is done so there's no reason why he shouldn't.

And I wouldn't want to tell the guys I hang with that my wife was picking me up... just not "cool".

I can understand your trust issues but he seems to be taking that into account.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> He implied that it was stupid for him to go out and drink and call me at 12 or 1 to come and get him. As a wife, I'd rather have my husband at home in my bed then in a hotel room across town just because he is drunk.
> 
> Am I being unrealistic?


I think your are being very realistic. 

A three year long affair is a tough one to get past. 

Your spouse is lucky you didn't divorce him and take the house and half plus alimony.

Also, In some states a marriage of 25 years affords the wife lifelong alimony, unless the wife wins the lottery or remarrys. 

Also, is your spouse such a pansy that allowing his wife to pick him up after a night of drinking emasculates him. 

Can you VAR his car?

Can you put a tracker on is car and cell phone. 

Better yet can you hire a private detective to trail him on these outings. Act as if you are Okay with it, and he will suddenly feel secure. 

Your spouse sounds just a tad too defensive. 

At the very least, if he isn't cheating he may be still thinking about divorce and want to push you to file. 

A lot of cheaters are cowards. They cheat because they are thinking of divorce and unhappy in the marriage. 

Instead of manning up and filing for divorce they try to keep their "good guy" image, by gaslighting the wife, and doing disrespectful things that force the hurt spouse to file. 

Trust yourself. Your spouse is acting like a jackwad.

BTW: If that is your photo I can see so much pain and sadness in your eyes that it hurts me.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Well, since you swept what he did far under the rug, it's no wonder things like this still bother you. You did not hold him accountable for cheating on you AT ALL, so why should he worry about what you think?

He is acting like a jerk (sounds like he has been since his affair was uncovered) and you are letting him get away with it.

You can either continue to rugsweep and resign yourself to living like this for the rest of your life, or you can stand up for yourself and hold him accountable.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> What's the issue? He's not getting a hotel room and he's coming home after the dinner.
> 
> It's a work meeting where there is an implied requirement for some attendance plus it's good to meet with the guys after the business day is done so there's no reason why he shouldn't.
> 
> ...


Chris, its not the fact that he's going out with the guys. I understand the need for that. Not a problem. And YES he is coming home but he is trying to make me feel like its because he HAS to come home to keep me happy. I wasnt sitting in his office two weeks ago when the secretary called him to see if he wanted a room at the hotel and I didnt tell him NO he absolutely could not do that, that it was unacceptable. He is the one that came home telling me she called and asked and he declined. It is only NOW that he is trying to make me feel like a bad wife for thinking its not cool to spend the night in a hotel 30 miles from your house just because you're trashed. He is a grown man...almost 40. Can grown men not have fun and then come home when they are done?


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I think your are being very realistic.
> 
> A three year long affair is a tough one to get past.
> 
> ...


Yes, Sara....sadly that is me in the picture. You're not the first person to say that. I have been a very sad person for a very long time. It comes from lack of self esteem and disrespect from the one person you felt you had left in the world (besides your kids). There are many years of feeling worthless hiding behind those eyes. 

It hasnt all been bad, my husband is just a confusing person. One minute he says he loves me and wants to be with me the next he is telling me he doesnt want to have sex with me and isnt attracted to me and then that night he wants to have sex with me. So much confusion and sadness and I stay because I truely love him and I guess in a crazy way I hold on to hope that it will get better. I do love him and I know that deep down he loves me....everything has just gotten so messed up and I dont think neither of us know how to fix it.

Im going to write a book about my husband and call it 5o Shades of F*cked Up! HA!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Well, since you swept what he did far under the rug, it's no wonder things like this still bother you. You did not hold him accountable for cheating on you AT ALL, so why should he worry about what you think?
> 
> He is acting like a jerk (sounds like he has been since his affair was uncovered) and you are letting him get away with it.
> 
> You can either continue to rugsweep and resign yourself to living like this for the rest of your life, or you can stand up for yourself and hold him accountable.



Hope, You are right, I didnt handle things the way I should have when this happened. Sometimes you know what you would do if you were in that situation until you are IN that situation. I listened to my heart instead of my head many times.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Yes,
> Im going to write a book about my husband and call it 5o Shades of F*cked Up! HA!


I think that is an excellent idea. 

I bet it will sell like a hotcake if you mention it's about an affair situation. 

You can also self publish at sites like Xlibris.

Writing your book will be cathartic and will help build you self esteem. 

You go girl.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> One minute he says he loves me and wants to be with me the next he is telling me he doesnt want to have sex with me and isnt attracted to me and then that night he wants to have sex with me.


Wait, what ? How is your relationship with him ? Saying that is cruel. Do you guys fight a lot ?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Nope, you are correct. My WW used to pull that “I’ll be drunk and everyone is staying at the hotel downtown.” bull. She was having affairs at the time. So, now that we are reconciling, there are some ‘proper’ things he should be doing.

First, when the boss or his co-workers are harassing him. If he’s dealt with his issues, he just needs to be honest. He should tell them that he would much rather sleep in a bed with his wife than in a hotel room. He shouldn’t put you through that anxiety. This is the right thing to do and he and his bosses and his married co-workers will understand and not think any less of him. If he was really smart, he’d ask you to spend the night with him if the company is paying for a room downtown. 

If he wants to party, a taxi or having you pick him up is perfectly acceptable. Best is if you can pick him up. He should take that opportunity to have you meet ‘the boys’ and show you off. You should be a pride thing to him. If everything is truly on the up and up, there shouldn’t be any embarrassment about this and the co-workers will happily welcome you. Might even be some good natured ribbing about his ‘luck’ for the evening. This is how my wife and I handle things now. A quick introduction, smiles, some joking, and off you two go leaving a good impression on ‘why exactly he’d rather go home with you’ than stay there for the night.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Racer said:


> A quick introduction, smiles, some joking, and off you two go leaving a good impression on ‘why exactly he’d rather go home with you’ than stay there for the night.


Wow, racer, that's an excellent approach. Good suggestion.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Wait, what ? How is your relationship with him ? Saying that is cruel. Do you guys fight a lot ?


I cant really answer that because I dont know where he stands. We get along good most of the time. He says he loves me but he also says hurtful things. He is a conflict avoider so dealing with everything that has happened in the past is impossible. He says he is done with the OW, he has changed and this is who he is. I can trust him and accept that or not. He isnt good with emotions and Im very emotional. Not a good mix.

I dont think that he means to be mean to me when he says stuff like that but maybe I am wrong. I think that he just has a really ****ty way of communicating. His parents were not emotional, loving people and in the last 10 years he has lost both of them. He has no other family except for me and the kids and he just seems to not CARE about much of anything anymore. We have alot of fun together as long as I dont ask too many questions or get needy and emotional. Once the tears come the walls come up!

We do not argue ALOT, maybe every few weeks we will get into a little fuss about something. Most of the problem is because I have expectations since everything has happened that are not being met and it makes me feel like he just doesnt care.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

For the issue at hand, again I say that he has agreed to come home so that should not be an on-going issue.

But it sounds like there are other issues that need to be addressed and him being out with the guys and how he gets home isn't the most important one.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Yes, Sara....*sadly that is me* in the picture. You're not the first person to say that. I have been a very sad person for a very long time. *It comes from lack of self esteem and disrespect *from the one person you felt you had left in the world (besides your kids). There are many years of feeling worthless hiding behind those eyes.


LD, if you don't mind me saying so, other than maybe looking a little sad, you're very attractive and you seem very intelligent. So, in my opinion, your feeling of a lack of self esteem doesn't appear to have any basis. If your bitter half is like you say he may be a bit of a spoiled brat.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Racer said:


> Nope, you are correct. My WW used to pull that “I’ll be drunk and everyone is staying at the hotel downtown.” bull. She was having affairs at the time. So, now that we are reconciling, there are some ‘proper’ things he should be doing.
> 
> First, when the boss or his co-workers are harassing him. If he’s dealt with his issues, he just needs to be honest. He should tell them that he would much rather sleep in a bed with his wife than in a hotel room. He shouldn’t put you through that anxiety. This is the right thing to do and he and his bosses and his married co-workers will understand and not think any less of him. If he was really smart, he’d ask you to spend the night with him if the company is paying for a room downtown.
> 
> If he wants to party, a taxi or having you pick him up is perfectly acceptable. Best is if you can pick him up. He should take that opportunity to have you meet ‘the boys’ and show you off. You should be a pride thing to him. If everything is truly on the up and up, there shouldn’t be any embarrassment about this and the co-workers will happily welcome you. Might even be some good natured ribbing about his ‘luck’ for the evening. This is how my wife and I handle things now. A quick introduction, smiles, some joking, and off you two go leaving a good impression on ‘why exactly he’d rather go home with you’ than stay there for the night.


Racer, that sounds great but he doesnt think of me as the wife that he wants to show off. I dont think he ever has really. Since his affair he has become very vain and superficial. I asked if he is ashamed of me he says no but honestly...he has adapted such a poor opinion of me over the years, in order to justify his cheating that he believes all the bad things he thinks about me. Its very very hurtful. Ive had 3 kids, been overweight much of my life (in 2005 we went on the South Beach Diet, he lost 115 lbs, I lost 80 but since I had been overweight most of my life and had three kids some of the skin stayed even when the fat left...that is when his affair started because he was getting attention he never got before). Heavy or thin I have always accepted him for him, not his size, as it should be. He on the other hand lost the weight, cheated with someone smaller then me and had others coming on to him. I think he resents me because I didnt walk away when I found out about his PA and in turn he went back to eating because he was being pulled by me and the OW. He has put on most of the weight and has adapted the impression that you're nothing unless you're thin.. I think he thinks he is worthless until he loses the weight again but with that comes the attention and ego, and then what...more cheating? Without surgery I would never have the perfect body because of the weight that I carried for so long and because I had three kids. He just doesnt look at me that way anymore and its heart breaking.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> For the issue at hand, again I say that he has agreed to come home so that should not be an on-going issue.
> 
> But it sounds like there are other issues that need to be addressed and him being out with the guys and how he gets home isn't the most important one.


Chris, you are right. It is a non-event at this time. It was a spat last night but today is a new day. I dont intend on bringing it up again. I will just suck it up and be ok with him making me feel like Im a nagging *****y wife who keeps him from having fun. That is not who I am and not the way I want to be looked at. That was my reason for posting here. I didnt know if I was being silly for thinking it just isn't ok to get a hotel room when you live in the same town?

I guess what it boils down to is that I feel like he blames me for EVERYTHING bad in his life and this is just another thing. I didnt tell him he couldnt go or that I didnt want him to go out. I just dont understand why he would have to get so drunk he has to crawl to a hotel room when he isnt even a big drinker.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> LD, if you don't mind me saying so, other than maybe looking a little sad, you're very attractive and you seem very intelligent. So, in my opinion, your feeling of a lack of self esteem doesn't appear to have any basis. If your bitter half is like you say he may be a bit of a spoiled brat.


Thank you FvString...I have heard that before. I have allowed my self worth to be determined by a man that I thought loved me and would never betray me and every time he hurts me I feel more and more worthless. I know I shouldnt base my happiness on the way someone else sees me but that is what has happened. Probably doesnt help that Ive been a stay home mom (I am self employed) for 15 years and dont have a "career" that allows me to be out and around other people on a daily basis. In the last 15 years I have depended on my H for alot of things. After the betrayal....I felt like the life had been sucked out of me and I wasnt loved or appreciated by the one person that was supposed to love me and respect me. 

Side note...I do not have a relationship with either of my parents. My dad and mom divorced when I was 3 and although I could call him today if I needed something he isnt emotionally connected to me. Has seen my kids ONCE and probably doesnt even remember their names. My mom has been drama for many years and finally two years ago I decided that I had too much going on in my own life and was exhausted and just didnt have it in me to continue on in the relationship I was having with her.


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## frozen (Mar 5, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Chris, you are right. It is a non-event at this time. It was a spat last night but today is a new day. I dont intend on bringing it up again. I will just suck it up and be ok with him making me feel like Im a nagging *****y wife who keeps him from having fun. That is not who I am and not the way I want to be looked at. That was my reason for posting here. I didnt know if I was being silly for thinking it just isn't ok to get a hotel room when you live in the same town?
> 
> I guess what it boils down to is that I feel like he blames me for EVERYTHING bad in his life and this is just another thing. I didnt tell him he couldnt go or that I didnt want him to go out. I just dont understand why he would have to get so drunk he has to crawl to a hotel room when he isnt even a big drinker.


There are ways to communicate with your husband so he understands how the situation makes you feel without the guilt or the nagging. Get a new therapist, one that is involved with imago or eft.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think your husband did the right thing in declining the room at the hotel when the secretary asked. I think he did this for you (because of the affair and obvious trust issues that would come with that). You should look at this as a good thing.

Now that the parties are going on, I can see how he is feeling. I go to a conference or two every year. It is more fun when the conference is out of town as people get a little more happy and stay out later knowing they don't have to drive. I know a few people that get a room even when the conference is in their town. 

I think that if you are available to drive him home, then that is the best answer. Tell him that you want him to be with his colleagues and have fun and you will pick him up when he is ready to come home. I like the idea of you getting there 10 minutes early so that you can meet his 'buddies' and see what is going on. I know my wife would decline this as she wouldn't feel comfortable around a bunch of drunks. I would like it if she came in though and met everyone.

Use the drive home to ask him about his night. Make him feel you are interested in his work and the people he works with. Hopefully he opens up to you about what went on. Usually there is guy or two that gets carried away and a few memorable things happen. 

These are good times for colleagues and clients and is an important part of many peoples careers. When I was younger I used to get a bit more carried away with the drinking and would feel it the next day. Now I am smarter, have a few drinks, but know when to slow down and just enjoy the entertainment. For me, I am mostly meeting with clients and it is usually an ego boost to hear how happy clients are with our products and service. My wife doesn't understand how important these times are. I wish she would attend some of these 'after' parties that happen at conferences.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

LetDownNTX said:


> Racer, that sounds great but he doesnt think of me as the wife that he wants to show off. I dont think he ever has really. Since his affair he has become very vain and superficial. ....



He’s a fool then... That’s you in your avatar right? Trust me, you are someone attractive and have just let him convince you otherwise. Been there, done that myself. 

Unfortunately, there is no quick fix and you can’t ‘make him’ attracted to you. It just doesn’t happen if you listen to him, because quite frankly a lot of people confuse what makes people attractive with the roles they play in our lives... The real problem is he isn’t shallow with you. You can’t compare yourself with the bimbos he sees.... because he can’t judge their character or anything else but shallow first impressions. What makes you attractive is the whole package. 

So, you are somewhat screwed. You are much more to him than skin and a smile. All those little things matter; Like who he believes you are. If he’s like my wife, he’s so busily focused on your shortcomings, its all a negative perception that equals “turn-off” on the attractive scale. The hard part is really getting him to focus on what is great about you... there is a lot more good than not. But all he wants to see is the wrong. 

First step is working on you. Stop the self-berating. An example is ‘but I only lost 80 lbs’ like that is a failure. It really is an accomplishment. Change your own self-image. Start focusing yourself on what you like about yourself. And work on those things you don’t like. Confidence, self-esteem, and self-validation are attractive traits. Usually, he’ll start noticing these changes as well. Begin there...

It won’t help you though in your current situation because it takes a lot of time. So, just lay down your boundary. You are uncomfortable with your spouse spending the night in a hotel when he should be home. Don’t budge, don’t justify, just tell him. If he goes through with it anyway... Ramifications. Look up the 180 and start there. Detach and focus on yourself to gain perspective.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> My husband and I have been together for 20+ years. In the last 5 he has had a PA that lasted 3 years. For the last two years he has been home and we have been "working on it". Which usually amounts to me just dealing with whatever I'm feeling and him thinking everything is fine all the time, til we have an argument and he blows up at me making me feel like its not even worth feeling what I'm feeling.
> 
> Anyway....this week is the big yearly meeting of the managers for my husbands company. There are about 20-30 people in town taking part in this. The home office for the company is in LA, we are in TX. Two weeks ago when all of the hotel arrangements were being made the secretary at home office called my h asking if he wanted a room in the hotel with the other guys. He declined saying he was fine since DUH he lives in town! Last night was the first night of them being here...so he was "obligated" to do dinner with the group. He got home about 8:45 pm...no problem! I told him his daughters school program was on Thursday and he said "well that's the night that everyone is going out". Fine with me....your loss. Then he proceeds to say his boss asked him today at lunch why he didnt get a room at the hotel, last night they had stayed in the bar til 12 or 1 am and spent $700 on a tab. Obviously the hotel is now booked?! I told him I thought it was crazy that he lives in town and would go out and drink so much that he had to stay at a hotel all night when he could easily call me and I could come get him where ever he is. I am okay with him going out with everyone I just don't think its right for him to stay in a hotel room when he's only 30 miles from home. He went on to snidely say that "its okay I will just come home after dinner, you don't have to worry, blah blah blah" That's usually his come back when I "worry" about what he might be doing.
> 
> ...


No i think you are being very reasonable especially in light of past affair activity. What exactly is yall "working on it " by this i mean are yall in MC or IC or both ???


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> LD, if you don't mind me saying so, other than maybe looking a little sad, you're very attractive and you seem very intelligent. So, in my opinion, your feeling of a lack of self esteem doesn't appear to have any basis. If your bitter half is like you say he may be a bit of a spoiled brat.


I agree. 

Also, bringing up the fact that he is going out alone, and discussing it is a good idea. 

After an affair all BNO's should cease. If it's a business function (rare for after hours and not legal to force an employee to go unless he gets overtime pay) He can tell his boss that he has personal issues and can not go out to a bar or dinner after work hours. 

If his boss balks, hire an attorney. 

Also because he had a THREE year affair, you have every right to want to pick him up and drive him home rather than allowing him to stay at a hotel. 

Your spouse is gaslighting you, if he says this is unfair. 

It's right out of the cheater's handbook to make you feel wrong to be suspicious or to make any demands at this point. 

Your husband has issues.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> No i think you are being very reasonable especially in light of past affair activity. What exactly is yall "working on it " by this i mean are yall in MC or IC or both ???


In the Wind, we are in neither. Not because I dont want to be but because he thinks its a waste of time. He thinks a therapist just tells you want to hear and its nothing that you dont already know. I went to couseling when we were seperated, then he asked for the counselors information and he went. We had two sessions together with the counselor when he decided it was a waste of money and he didnt want to work hard to pay someone to tell him what he already knew. My belief is that he didnt want to go at that time because he wasnt letting the OW go and he knew the therapist was on to him, the therapist made him accountable for his actions and statments.

I have wanted to get back into IC but have taken a huge hit in income in the last 6 mos so its making it harder to justify.

When I say "working on it" it basically amounts to us living under the same room as husband and wife and not talking about anything that will cause any uncomfortable feelings. Not the way I want it but if you read my other posts you will see that he has terrible communication skills and doesnt want to try to understand what its like being in my shoes through all this.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> It's right out of the cheater's handbook to make you feel wrong to be suspicious or to make any demands at this point.
> ...



Ive been saying that for a while now but he thinks he is normal and that it is me that gets upset too easily, or overreacts. And quite honestly, I have almost mastered thinking about things before I react rather then acting on impulse.

BTW, thank you Sara!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Racer said:


> *He’s a fool then... That’s you in your avatar right? Trust me, you are someone attractive and have just let him convince you otherwise.* Been there, done that myself.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no quick fix and you can’t ‘make him’ attracted to you. It just doesn’t happen if you listen to him, because quite frankly a lot of people confuse what makes people attractive with the roles they play in our lives... The real problem is he isn’t shallow with you. You can’t compare yourself with the bimbos he sees.... because he can’t judge their character or anything else but shallow first impressions. What makes you attractive is the whole package.
> 
> ...


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Ive been saying that for a while now but he thinks he is normal and that it is me that gets upset too easily, or overreacts. And quite honestly, I have almost mastered thinking about things before I react rather then acting on impulse.
> 
> BTW, thank you Sara!


All crazy people INSIST they are normal. They can never even consider IC or MC because they are so danged normal. 

Also, although he is obviously acting like the crazy person, he accuses your NORMAL questioning as being abnormal. 

That's called gaslighting.....another tool in the cheater's handbook (former or otherwise)

Edited to add;

If he won't go to IC or MC, come here to vent and to preserve your sanity.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Racer said:


> *He’s a fool then... That’s you in your avatar right? Trust me, you are someone attractive and have just let him convince you otherwise.* Been there, done that myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Well and most WW (waywards) prefer to rug sweep you know cant we just move on etc etc what they really are saying is that heck no i dont want to look at myself or be accountable for my actions.
My suggestion is to refuse to be treated this way. Look you are gorgeous and should nt have to put up with this any longer I would set some boundaries with your husband like look i want to address this these are my feelings they havent gone away if anything they have festered due to you (your husband) not wanting to do anything about it. 
Your description of your marriage doesnt sound like you are too thrilled with yr situation ?? in my best guess and he needs to man up and do the right thing and attend to your needs especially since you have chosen to give him the gift of reconcillation - sorry for my venting but i think you are worth and deserve more


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> Well and most WW (waywards) prefer to rug sweep you know cant we just move on etc etc what they really are saying is that heck no i dont want to look at myself or be accountable for my actions.
> My suggestion is to refuse to be treated this way. Look you are gorgeous and should nt have to put up with this any longer I would set some boundaries with your husband like look i want to address this these are my feelings they havent gone away if anything they have festered due to you (your husband) not wanting to do anything about it.
> Your description of your marriage doesnt sound like you are too thrilled with yr situation ?? in my best guess and he needs to man up and do the right thing and attend to your needs especially since you have chosen to give him the gift of reconcillation - sorry for my venting but i think you are worth and deserve more


Thank you very much InTheWind.....you are right. I am not happy with my situation I just dont feel like I can change it myself. Everytime I think we are making progress something is said or done and it puts us back three steps. I have a very forgiving heart, obviously. My H does not....he could probably make a list a mile long with reasons this is all my fault. I am smart enough to know that its not. I was always a good wife to him, and still am! I took my vows seriously "for better or worse" and at times...its couldnt get much worse!


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

As others have mentioned read up on the 180, I believe that the affair stuff is 100 % on him you are not at fault no matter what he says. The state of the marriage is 50% you and 50% him, the fact that he chose to cheat is his to own not yours. he will try to convince you otherwise. The 180 discusses concepts like working on yourself i would suggest maybe start exercising or working out as this does several things it helpsyou feel better about your self and its the number 1 thing for stress relief. along with this besides taking care of yourself and your kids develop some hobbies either old or new and do them with or without your hubby think back to when yall first started going out and the things that yall did they say a healthy marriage consists of a minimum of 10 hours a week of quality time this is time between yall no kids no cell phones etc but doing things together walking in a park waterskiing whatever get a baby sitter or a family member to watch the kids and have fun sitting in front of the TV when the kids are finally down doesnt count. do these things along with MC and you will feel alot better about your marriage he needs to participate as well if he expects you to stay married. this is a boundary you should consider also you expect transparency in all and any area cell phones computer email etc. My wife and use the 100% agreement method which is if she or I arent 100% in agreement on something then it doesnt happen example in the case of yr husbands company thing he says oh i have the big wigs coming in would you mind if i go and meet them on wed ? you say ok , then on thur he says the same but we are going out as well your respeonse should be well daughter has a dance recital at 7pm can you go after that or before ?? if he says well i could go from 5 to 7 then met you at the recital hall see isnt that better you know where he will be when to expect him and plus he is participating with the family win win for everyone well thats probably a good goal to work towards 

Good Luck 
ITW


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

A very sad story indeed. It reads like the prequel to some bh stories. The prequel contines this way:

1 In a few months letdown receives a fb friend request from an old friend
2 they discuss old times - then compare lives with spouses
3 in a year mr letdown starts a thread here

Please go to counciling now!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> As others have mentioned read up on the 180, I believe that the affair stuff is 100 % on him you are not at fault no matter what he says. The state of the marriage is 50% you and 50% him, the fact that he chose to cheat is his to own not yours. he will try to convince you otherwise. The 180 discusses concepts like working on yourself i would suggest maybe start exercising or working out as this does several things it helpsyou feel better about your self and its the number 1 thing for stress relief. along with this besides taking care of yourself and your kids develop some hobbies either old or new and do them with or without your hubby think back to when yall first started going out and the things that yall did they say a healthy marriage consists of a minimum of 10 hours a week of quality time this is time between yall no kids no cell phones etc but doing things together walking in a park waterskiing whatever get a baby sitter or a family member to watch the kids and have fun sitting in front of the TV when the kids are finally down doesnt count. do these things along with MC and you will feel alot better about your marriage he needs to participate as well if he expects you to stay married. this is a boundary you should consider also you expect transparency in all and any area cell phones computer email etc. My wife and use the 100% agreement method which is if she or I arent 100% in agreement on something then it doesnt happen example in the case of yr husbands company thing he says oh i have the big wigs coming in would you mind if i go and meet them on wed ? you say ok , then on thur he says the same but we are going out as well your respeonse should be well daughter has a dance recital at 7pm can you go after that or before ?? if he says well i could go from 5 to 7 then met you at the recital hall see isnt that better you know where he will be when to expect him and plus he is participating with the family win win for everyone well thats probably a good goal to work towards
> 
> Good Luck
> ITW


ITW, our children are a little older 16,13 and 8 so I have two babysitters for the 8 yo that allows us to go out and do things together. We do quite a bit together, we both go to gym together, he plays softball on Mon and Tues night and I usually go on Mon, sometimes on Tues. We sit on the couch together, we enjoy the same things. We always eat together, we go to bed together (at the same time). So many things are good in our relationship but then there is that big dark cloud that hands over us everyday!! Some days you can see the sun peeking through, others there is nothing but darkness.

I think one of the biggest things that has kept us under this cloud is that I haven't felt like he is truly remorseful for what happened and that he is not meeting all of my needs after I have told him numerous times what they are. Im an affectionate person, he is not. I want a hug! I want a kiss when he gets home from work. I usually get one kiss a day when he goes to work and I walk him to the door and hug and kiss him. I never hear him say I love you unless he's responding to a message/email that I've sent to him saying ILU. (this is a big thing for me as the last time I caught him talking to the OW, his last words were "i love you").

He thinks being here is enough to show me he cares about me and loves me, otherwise he wouldn't be here. I however cant read love and caring into being under the same roof with someone and going through the motions. I need to feel that its genuine!

Some days I just feel like I ask for too much or expect too much from someone who isnt capable of helping me through this....and he should have to help right....he created this mess?!


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

OP, I'd like to kick your husband in his shins. I know you may love him but he's being a jerk! I can't agree more with what Sara8 and the others like her are saying. The affair was never dealt with. He still he has stuff going on. I don't know what, but no doubt about it he's intimidating you into submitting to a relationship that is completely on his terms. I'll bet you pull the lion's share of work at home, with the kids, with family stuff. He is so self-absorbed that he can't see YOU. And you are beautiful. Total imbalance of power in this relationship. If things don't change you are destined for one of two scenarios: 1. Status quo and an abusive situation, which is what this is or 2. A change of status being either he gets it and snaps out of it or you say you've had enough and get your awesomeness out there into the sunshine away from his depressing dark cloud. Again I'd like to crack him. Gosh these jerks tick me off. 

That being said there must've been something that drew you to him in the first place and the memory of that is what you pine for. 

Re the hotel it is the most REASONABLE request. Geesh. 

My husband had a meeting (last minute called by his Pres and board) in a city 45min-1hr away from us, the same city where he had his company retreat earlier this year where everything got so dicey with OW). Knowing that it would be a trigger for me my husband drove back late at night after the meeting to be with me and then returned bright and early for the morning meeting. He offered that as a solution and although he said it might be a little awkward with the others, he would handle it. I can't even tell you how it made me feel, especially after our blame shifting past.)

I would love to see you stand up to this man! Dude is blind. 

Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> BTW: If that is your photo I can see so much pain and sadness in your eyes that it hurts me.


:iagree: 

OP, you try to be rational about this, but it is time to deal with your emotions from the past.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> OP, I'd like to kick your husband in his shins. I know you may love him but he's being a jerk! I can't agree more with what Sara8 and the others like her are saying. The affair was never dealt with. He still he has stuff going on. I don't know what, but no doubt about it he's intimidating you into submitting to a relationship that is completely on his terms. I'll bet you pull the lion's share of work at home, with the kids, with family stuff. He is so self-absorbed that he can't see YOU. And you are beautiful. Total imbalance of power in this relationship. If things don't change you are destined for one of two scenarios: 1. Status quo and an abusive situation, which is what this is or 2. A change of status being either he gets it and snaps out of it or you say you've had enough and get your awesomeness out there into the sunshine away from his depressing dark cloud. Again I'd like to crack him. Gosh these jerks tick me off.
> 
> That being said there must've been something that drew you to him in the first place and the memory of that is what you pine for.
> 
> ...


Thank you for making me feel like Im not crazy! You are right...I do just about everything at home and with the kids. He does take care of the house, cars and lawns but those are all things that dont require emotions! I have always been the one that does it all and I never complained because I was the one that got to stay home and because I like taking care of everyone, including him. I know I have made alot of mistakes in the past and not handled our issues the way that I should have so I guess I have created this monster. 

What your husband did to by coming home that night so that you wouldnt worry is a great thing. I wish so much that my husband would do those things to help me. One day I was taking the kids out for a while to a birthday party and he was going for a ride on the motorcycle. I asked if he would stay on this side of the interstate (she lives on the other side). I said it quickly, without thinking about what I was saying. His response was "F it I wont go anywhere, I'll stay right here and then you wont have to worry" Then I feel guilty because I expressed my feelings when I could have just kept my mouth shut and avoided this whole situation. Everytime he gets mad at me for expressing my feelings in some way I feel like Ive made the situation worse. GOD IM SO PATHETIC!! LISTEN TO ME!!


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Yes, Sara....sadly that is me in the picture. You're not the first person to say that. I have been a very sad person for a very long time. It comes from lack of self esteem and disrespect from the one person you felt you had left in the world (besides your kids). There are many years of feeling worthless hiding behind those eyes.


No more mr Nice Guy is the book for you. It will help you and your relation. It definitely will get better for you, it may get better for the relation, or not. But choose first for yourself now.

BTW He has no right to stay nights out if your feeling is not OK about it. You can just tell him he spoiled that privilege. Don't react to what he says back to you. If he stays out you tell him he can book the rest of the week to.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> ...I do just about everything at home and with the kids. He does take care of the house, cars and lawns.................I guess I have created this monster.
> 
> What your husband did to by coming home that night so that you wouldnt worry is a great thing.
> 
> ...


You're not pathetic, you're just incredibly hurt. I have to go pick up the kids but first -- I had the same thing with my husband around home --- OR he'd come home and play with kids and ignore me. Said it was "our stage in life....that we didn't have time for each other" -- total avoidance

Next time your husband says "f it I won't go anywhere" -- without emotion say "great. your choice" and then leave with the kids. adios.

and re my husband doing that --- he's trying but it's been a long haul. if things had gone over to a PA instead a sexually charged EA I think it would've been harder. My husband knew I would leave (and actually I started to). I also confronted. I also started reading -- at first to him and then he started reading too. Shirley Glass's book. I also visited her husband. If we hadn't had kids I would've been on a plane to a land far far away, DESPITE him being the love of my life. I never wanted this scenario. He knew it was the ONE thing that was my fear.

Gotta scoot...more I'd like to say. You need to detach emotionally from him in a healthy way and stop feeding into him. Be strong in yourself. Do good things for yourself. Surround yourself with people who support you and expose.

Big hug. You are NOT crazy!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Look, if this man isn't a ppreciating you and respecting you and the problems haven't been resolved, why are you with him? If that's you in that picture, you're a hot mama. You don't need this fool. But you have to believe it. You have to believe you are SMART and HOT and SEXY and DESERVE better. That has to come from within.

Once you start believing it, then you start living it.

If he can't appreciate you, dump him. Yes, it is really that simple! Why by miserable in a marriage where a man doesn't appreciate you and value you? He should be bending over backwards after betraying you for so long, not making you feel bad. 

Don't let him make you feel bad!

He may not "look at you that way" anymore...but someone else will. Trust me. If he can't get on board to what a real relationship entails/requires/especialy post-infidelity, dump this zero and find a hero! 

You are NEVER too late to get it back. 

If he


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Some days I just feel like I ask for too much or expect too much from someone who isnt capable of helping me through this....and he should have to help right....he created this mess?! 


Yes he did !! Not you, but him and your feelings and thoughts and emotions are yours because of what he did so he needs to 1. be accountable to you because of his past. 2. Put your feelings and thoughts above his ie motorcycle ride a simple request he is acting like a child 3. I agree with JB (Jelly Beans) listen to her she knows her stuff these are minor issues that can can addressed and fixed before it is to late and i agree that sooner or later you will get tired of being treated this way


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## frozen (Mar 5, 2012)

From experience I can tell you why a man refuses therapy. You said it yourself he was being forced to come clean. The other reason is somewhat valid in that he may believe therapy to be adversarial and in the match against you he feels you will control it.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

frozen said:


> From experience I can tell you why a man refuses therapy. You said it yourself he was being forced to come clean. The other reason is somewhat valid in that he may believe therapy to be adversarial and in the match against you he feels you will control it.


After my affair and My wife offered MC or D I chose MC and I didnt care that I had to face 3 women 2 female counselors and my wife I decided that i wanted to be with my wife. before i knew she was serious i said the same things that her husband was saying oh we dont need counseling i m here yada yada yada lol:rofl: anyway she didnt buy it and thank god she didnt she made me get accountable and come clean which i did that was 
3 1/2 years ago I am happier now in our marriage than i have ever been we both trust each other and it is a lot different than before on both sides we celebrated 12 years of marriage this past summer and i will never again take my spouse for granted which is what your hubby is doing -in my opinion


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> No more mr Nice Guy is the book for you. It will help you and your relation. It definitely will get better for you, it may get better for the relation, or not. But choose first for yourself now.
> 
> BTW He has no right to stay nights out if your feeling is not OK about it. You can just tell him he spoiled that privilege. Don't react to what he says back to you. If he stays out you tell him he can book the rest of the week to.


Is this book good for women too? Not sure if the title is just being used as a phrase or if it is written for men?


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> You're not pathetic, you're just incredibly hurt. I have to go pick up the kids but first -- I had the same thing with my husband around home --- OR he'd come home and play with kids and ignore me. Said it was "our stage in life....that we didn't have time for each other" -- total avoidance
> 
> Next time your husband says "f it I won't go anywhere" -- without emotion say "great. your choice" and then leave with the kids. adios.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I have gotten to where I dont let his smart remarks bother me as much. It just seems like EVERYTIME he turns it around to try to make me feel like the nag and Im sick of it. I have told him things like " fine, its your choice",when he's been childish about things. You know what usually happens though..I walk away and he still does what he said he wasnt gonna do...LOL (ie, the motorcycle ride)

Thank you for your comments!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Look, if this man isn't a ppreciating you and respecting you and the problems haven't been resolved, why are you with him? If that's you in that picture, you're a hot mama. You don't need this fool. But you have to believe it. You have to believe you are SMART and HOT and SEXY and DESERVE better. That has to come from within.
> 
> Once you start believing it, then you start living it.
> 
> ...


Very true statements...thank you! My problem is that I have to teach myself how to feel good about myself despite the way he makes me feel at times.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You're allowing him to define who you are. YOU define who you are. Decide to do it and DO it. It's a decision you have GOT to make, or you'll just keep being unhappy with this jerk.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

I see myself in you. I can identify with what you are saying so much. My husband was unfaithful too. He is tired of doing what it takes to keep my anxieties down. I am emotional and my husband is not. I cannot express my feelings and when I do, he gets mad, an argument ensues, and I'm the one who winds up apologizing. So, I wind up trying my best to keep my emotions inside...or vent them here. I am working on feeling better about myself and could really use a good friend that understands what I'm going through. I'm also "let down in texas"..we are neighbors. It's amazing what being in a troubled realtionship can do to you mentally, emotionally, and physically.

And yes, I agree with the others, you are beautiful and not only is your expectation reasonable, you deserve to be treated with love and respect.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> I know I shouldnt base my happiness on the way someone else sees me but that is what has happened.


I think everybody does that to some extent. But unless you know with an absolute certainty that some other person has this unique ability and wherewithal to appraise/evaluate you, why accept their judgement. Think about it.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Is this book good for women too? Not sure if the title is just being used as a phrase or if it is written for men?


The book is written for men, but the methods to revert from being a doormat, and in a way inviting the unrespectful behaviour of women (or other men btw) is usefull for every person, man or woman, al least that's what I think.

It is about self respect, and how you let yourself be treated. Learn to speak up and stand up for yourself. To be honest, I downloaded it (it's free, there are links on some threads here) because I need to improve on those issues myself. So it is useful in multiple situations.

I don't know about a similar book for women, and I think this is about persons anyway, men or women can have both roles in a relation.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

LetdowninTejas -- Have you verified that he's still not cheating? Phone records? It sounds like he's loosely accountable for his time. Have you read "Not Just Friends"? If anything it'll help you understand how these things start. I saw the signs for my husband moving away from me as he was jumping in deeper with the work-Predator (mind you he was a predator too). My husband who had always been really longsuffering with me was becoming very shor, snapping. Getting in fights. He thought I was unhappy and there was nothing he could do to make me happy (and we discussed this in counseling which has been VERY helpful.) -- Yeah, I was unhappy, because I was being taken for granted and I knew I was no longer on the top of the list. I was at the bottom. And I could also tell that he was losing his attraction for me. I would catch him looking at me in a way that told me everything I needed to know. (And it wasn't that way before.) 

But the OW was almost a decade younger, had lost a lot of weight over the past few years and was his running buddy and was not doing things to ward off attraction, but was doing things to draw him in. (We both now know he had no business running with her in the first place!) A woman who isn't trying to attract a man doesn't lift up her shirt to show off her abs even if she is trying to cool off. Sorry...She was on the prowl and described herself as a "very flirty" person to me. NO JOKE! All this to say his willingly getting sucked in put energy into her and drew it from me and he was falling out of love with me (though he says he never did, I saw it happening.) (He did acknowledge that he was losing attraction though. I know he didn't stop loving me like, um, a family member, his sister er sumthin'.)

I've seen people lose their loves because they never come out of it....and I have seen people come back around and end up disgusted with the AP. That's what I wish for us all. But I'll tell you it can only happen if your husband or S/o really gets to see the "other side" of the fantasy. 

Was the affair exposed? Even if the affair is truly over, if the issues with your husband (and I mean HIS issues) aren't dealt with, then there is no reason why he won't fall into another affair. You are worth so, so much more. It's hard, I know.


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Wondering how you're doing?


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> LetdowninTejas -- Have you verified that he's still not cheating? I check what I can but am limited. I can check his work email but he learned a long time ago that I could do that so I dont think he would put anything through there that I might find. Phone records? His cell phone is a work cell phone so I dont have access to any records. If he is contacting her it would be with his work cell phone and then erasing it. Although I have never picked it up and looked through it. I have this nervous anxiety every time I think about it. It sounds like he's loosely accountable for his time. Have you read "Not Just Friends"? No I havent but Im going to get it and read it. I have read so much stuff it seems like it all makes sense but then my situation never changes. I need to get him to read it but Im sure he wont! If anything it'll help you understand how these things start. I saw the signs for my husband moving away from me as he was jumping in deeper with the work-Predator (mind you he was a predator too). My husband who had always been really longsuffering with me was becoming very shor, snapping. My husband does the same thing and even now when I notice he is getting that way I start to analyze everything. If he even thinks that Im considering he is still talking to the OW he gets all kinds of bent out of shape. Sometimes I feel like he is being defensive, others I wonder if I would react the same way if the roles were reversed. Getting in fights. He thought I was unhappy and there was nothing he could do to make me happy (and we discussed this in counseling which has been VERY helpful.) -- Yeah, I was unhappy, because I was being taken for granted and I knew I was no longer on the top of the list. I was at the bottom. And I could also tell that he was losing his attraction for me. I would catch him looking at me in a way that told me everything I needed to know. (And it wasn't that way before.) Sadly my husband has gone so far as to tell me he isnt physically attracted to me but then that night he wanted sex...go figure. I think he says hurtful things to me out of anger but that is no excuse. I wouldnt ever hurt him the way he has hurt me with some of his words.
> 
> But the OW was almost a decade younger, had lost a lot of weight over the past few years and was his running buddy and was not doing things to ward off attraction, but was doing things to draw him in. (We both now know he had no business running with her in the first place!) A woman who isn't trying to attract a man doesn't lift up her shirt to show off her abs even if she is trying to cool off. Sorry...She was on the prowl and described herself as a "very flirty" person to me. NO JOKE! All this to say his willingly getting sucked in put energy into her and drew it from me and he was falling out of love with me (though he says he never did, I saw it happening.) (He did acknowledge that he was losing attraction though. I know he didn't stop loving me like, um, a family member, his sister er sumthin'.)
> 
> ...


 Its very hard. Especially when the one person thats supposed to love you the most treats you like you are garbage on the roadside. I will never be able to get him to understand how hurt I am over all this. All he wants is to get over it and move forward....but he doesnt want to do the work necessary to make that happen!! He says its over....I can believe it or not and if I cant then maybe we shouldnt be together, end of story! I pray so hard all the time for God to give me an understanding husband, hasnt happened yet!


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## Airbus (Feb 8, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> My husband and I have been together for 20+ years. In the last 5 he has had a PA that lasted 3 years. For the last two years he has been home and we have been "working on it". Which usually amounts to me just dealing with whatever I'm feeling and him thinking everything is fine all the time, til we have an argument and he blows up at me making me feel like its not even worth feeling what I'm feeling.
> 
> Anyway....this week is the big yearly meeting of the managers for my husbands company. There are about 20-30 people in town taking part in this. The home office for the company is in LA, we are in TX. Two weeks ago when all of the hotel arrangements were being made the secretary at home office called my h asking if he wanted a room in the hotel with the other guys. He declined saying he was fine since DUH he lives in town! Last night was the first night of them being here...so he was "obligated" to do dinner with the group. He got home about 8:45 pm...no problem! I told him his daughters school program was on Thursday and he said "well that's the night that everyone is going out". Fine with me....your loss. Then he proceeds to say his boss asked him today at lunch why he didnt get a room at the hotel, last night they had stayed in the bar til 12 or 1 am and spent $700 on a tab. Obviously the hotel is now booked?! I told him I thought it was crazy that he lives in town and would go out and drink so much that he had to stay at a hotel all night when he could easily call me and I could come get him where ever he is. I am okay with him going out with everyone I just don't think its right for him to stay in a hotel room when he's only 30 miles from home. He went on to snidely say that "its okay I will just come home after dinner, you don't have to worry, blah blah blah" That's usually his come back when I "worry" about what he might be doing.
> 
> ...


Disrespectful pratt! How dare that man make you feel bad with his history of a years long PA?


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Oh dear LetdowninTexas, your last post made me especially sad. If he's saying 'maybe you all shouldn't be together if you can't get over it' then it sounds like he has one foot out the door. This is so not good. You are worth so much more than this. I hope some of the really experienced people here will chime in!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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