# LD wife and HD husband, how to make it work



## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Title is pretty self explanatory.
Been working on myself trying to gain the affection and desire from my wife. Last month I told her I needed to make love with her at least 3 times a week. Things were great the following week, best ever, or so I thought.

The following week? PMS, then she gets a cold half way into her period. So, we've gone from one amazing week to twice in the past 3 weeks or so. Understandable right?

Then I find out she's been sharing with her friends how much she hates me always wanting sex and how much she needs to get out of the house and away from me to avoid it. Weird eh? I thought she was enjoying our new found love for each other. Turns out she hated me pursuing her every day that one amazing week.

We got into a nasty argument when I found this out and of course she initially tried to deny reality. Once she calmed down, she told me of the times back in the day when she really enjoyed being with me...those nights when she'd come home from being out with her friends and crawling into bed with me. Problem is, those nights were pretty rare.

So now it seems, she's trying to compromise while revealing that she only enjoys having sex with me a few times a year? When on her terms? WTF?

I guess I'll have to keep working on myself and if she doesn't respond, what else can I do? She knows very well I will not tolerate this.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Chumpless said:


> Title is pretty self explanatory.
> Been working on myself trying to gain the affection and desire from my wife. Last month I told her I needed to make love with her at least 3 times a week. Things were great the following week, best ever, or so I thought.
> 
> The following week? PMS, then she gets a cold half way into her period. So, we've gone from one amazing week to twice in the past 3 weeks or so. Understandable right?
> ...


Not sure exactly what you're asking us, it sounds like you're on the right track making your needs/desires known. If you want to make it work, stick to your guns. It's pretty silly to think she's going to give up her position in the power struggle just because you challenge it. Own your behavior and above all, let her own hers behavior


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> stick to your guns


But that's pushing her away. She's actively trying to avoid sex with me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C,
How long married, how many kids?
Is the non-sexual part of the marriage good?
Outside the bedroom, when does she put your wants/needs first? When do you put hers first?

Was your sex life ever good/frequent? When did it go bad? 

You are actually married - loosely - to two different women. Mostly she is the "not" ovulating woman who likes some level of aggression from you. 

Two/three days a month she is ovulating and wants a high level of aggression from you. 

When did she lose her "desire to please" you? 

What happens if you go out/spend time with friends, sharply reduce the time you spend with her? 

Why the heck is she comfortable talking trash about you with friends? 

Have you let yourself go physically? Do other women still show interest in you?



Chumpless said:


> Title is pretty self explanatory.
> Been working on myself trying to gain the affection and desire from my wife. Last month I told her I needed to make love with her at least 3 times a week. Things were great the following week, best ever, or so I thought.
> 
> The following week? PMS, then she gets a cold half way into her period. So, we've gone from one amazing week to twice in the past 3 weeks or so. Understandable right?
> ...


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

How long married, how many kids? *9 years, 2 kids*
Is the non-sexual part of the marriage good? *Pretty good*
Outside the bedroom, when does she put your wants/needs first? *Hmmm...not often*
When do you put hers first? *Not often in the past, but working on it and progressing along.*
Was your sex life ever good/frequent? *Only the first couple of years into the marriage were good.*
When did it go bad? *A long time ago and I accepted it until I had an epiphany about 4 months ago.*
When did she lose her "desire to please" you? *A long time ago*
What happens if you go out/spend time with friends, sharply reduce the time you spend with her? *I haven't had much opportunity to do this. She does actually encourage me to get out more.*
Why the heck is she comfortable talking trash about you with friends? *Not sure*
Have you let yourself go physically? Do other women still show interest in you? *No, I still look good and yes, other women do show interest in me even around my wife.*

For the record, we're both trying to improve our marriage on many fronts. Been chipping away at it for a few months now. I'm working to help meet her needs, and she doesn't seem to take my #1 priority seriously. Even though she knows it is destroying the marriage.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Chumpless said:


> But that's pushing her away. She's actively trying to avoid sex with me.


Nothing is pushing her away except her choices and letting her make them for herself shows respect. Let her own her choices and you own yours. Don't be fearful and don't try to be controlling. Let her own her feelings


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

Three times a week would seem excessive for a low drive woman I believe. Why not twice a week, that way she has time to wind down from the last time and wind up to the next one. If she is saying to her friends that you want it too much for her comfort, then why not compromise with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C, 
You need to find out why she doesn't like it. 

Maybe you are too loving, too soft and romantic and she is more into sex than making love. 

Maybe she wants you to last longer. 

You need to get her to tell you what turns her on and off. And whatever you do, don't argue. 

If she gives you vague bs about doing more housework just laugh and smack her on the butt. 

The pressure needs to be on getting her to tell you her turn ons and offs in and out of bed. 

She is already telling you that your home too much.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks MEM. Should I pull back on accommodating some of her needs?
I can't see how that will make me more attractive though if I, let's say, stop making dinner for the family all together. I mean, if she's not willing to work with me on meeting my most important need, what incentive do I have to do things that she likes?

Some background, I am the breadwinner of the house, pay all the bills and support the family. I am working on my MAP and know which "beta" and "alpha" traits I need to up as well as tone down.

I guess only time will tell if she responds with more sexual desire toward me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Stop talking and start using body language to read her and also to let her know what you think. 

Spend less time at home and when home - less time with her. 

If she is a full time SAHM, why isn't she cooking dinner at least some nights?

Come home late 2-3 nights a week. 




Chumpless said:


> Thanks MEM. Should I pull back on accommodating some of her needs?
> I can't see how that will make me more attractive though if I, let's say, stop making dinner for the family all together. I mean, if she's not willing to work with me on meeting my most important need, what incentive do I have to do things that she likes?
> 
> Some background, I am the breadwinner of the house, pay all the bills and support the family. I am working on my MAP and know which "beta" and "alpha" traits I need to up as well as tone down.
> ...


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

At our marriage counselling weekend recently the topic was sex. The male instructor said 'some long term couples want it once a week, and some are perfectly fine with once a month'. I found this interesting. 

The number of women with kids at home who would have the time and energy for 3 times a week may not be all that high. JMO

Maybe it's good that you found out that 3x a week made her feel very pressured, perhaps you need to have a frank discussion again about meeting somewhere in the middle.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Yeah, I guess a big part of it is I am pressuring her too much.
Today was her first day at her new job and came home 1/2hr before the kids. I asked if she was feeling frisky and she said "we'll have to be quick". Not the best, but better than nothing right?

I'll proceed to find out more about what is turning her off. She's already told me today that she hates me chasing her around the house. I said that I understand, I'll stop pressuring you so much, but I enjoy "chasing" you around the house! She laughed.

We'll see how things go from here.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Chumpless said:


> I asked if she was feeling frisky and she said "we'll have to be quick". Not the best, but better than nothing right?


Maybe you could lower your quality standards here in order to get your schedule filled. It makes perfect sense to me that one would need something more often if the delivery is less satisfying.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Maybe you could lower your quality standards here in order to get your schedule filled. It makes perfect sense to me that one would need something more often if the delivery is less satisfying.


Agreed. But she still doesn't "want" to most of the time. I'll keep chipping away and figure it out. As the one poster said, just may have to settle somewhere in the middle. Ha! 1.5 times per week. Does the .5 mean I only get to go in half way?


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

communication and masturbation.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Chumpless said:


> But she still doesn't "want" to most of the time.
> Does the .5 mean I only get to go in half way?


I would suggest respectfully letting her own her "wants" with an occasional, gentle, loving suggestion that her "wants" or lack thereof may in fact be a choice rather than a biological condition. In my humble experience, .5 always works contrary to my goals so I always go for whole numbers, even if I'm only getting half.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Chumpless said:


> But that's pushing her away. She's actively trying to avoid sex with me.


You sound co-dependant. Your internal logic is broken.

You are not pushing her away. She is choosing to withdrawl. You are not responsible for her actions.

You'll be more attractive to her once your thinking becomes more healthy. 

"Honey I want sex" "oh but I have a headache" 

Her headache has nothing to do with your desire for sex. Redraw these boundries in your head and start working on acceptance (inner peace is good) or plan B.

Part of plan B might involve how to handle things more EFFECTIVELY. Learn behaviors that you exhibit that result in her choosing to pull away. Modify those behaviors. Start acting in ways that encourage her desire for you. (note, availability kills attraction. Thats why you are getting suggestions to not be home, not hang out around her, etc)

There is a catch. These actions must come from a place of integrity, inner peace (see I told you it's good), genuiness (is that a word?). There must be no hidden agenda. You cannot act this way thinking "If I act this way, she's have sex with me". Because you will resent her when she does not have sex with your. No inner peace...

It's all about the way things work in your head. You also need to be willing to move on if the sex does not meet your needs. That is what a healthy person would do.

Don't expect immediate results. You are in a tricky position. You are 1/2 (I know how you love fractions) of a unhealthy couple. You can't fix her. You can fix yourself. You can LEAD your relationship to a healthy place where the poo tang is freely flowing. But you can't TAKE it there. 

I'm in the same place, by the way. So don't think you are alone. The difference between people like us, and something like 70% of the other husbands out there (the couples who report there are happy with once a month sex is Fin BS, it's just that the husbands are too afraid to report they aren't happy...denail ain't just a river in Egypt), is we are not longer willing to stay in this place. Finding our way out is tough. The easy way out, the short term fix, is divorce - start over without the work of trying to fix this mess.

What you and I are looking at, is an extremely difficult, long term project.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Saki said:


> I'm in the same place, by the way. So don't think you are alone. The difference between people like us, and something like 70% of the other husbands out there (the couples who report there are happy with once a month sex is Fin BS, it's just that the husbands are too afraid to report they aren't happy...denail ain't just a river in Egypt), is we are not longer willing to stay in this place. Finding our way out is tough. The easy way out, the short term fix, is divorce - start over without the work of trying to fix this mess.
> 
> What you and I are looking at, is an extremely difficult, long term project.


Thanks Saki, same here. For 10 years I tried to make myself be OK with the unhappiness, misguidedly thinking it was the right thing to do since it appears to work for a lot of other guys and seems to be desired by even more women. As my wife continued to be consumed with getting her way and eventually served me with divorce papers, I couldn't come up with a reason to keep her. That was my aha moment. Clearly, no one is going to keep my marriage together but me and I can't do it if I'm not getting what I need. So I shouldered the burden and the cause and got down to the business of making it work. And it's not easy


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

It's a real eye opener, isn't it?



Ten_year_hubby said:


> I tried to make myself be OK with the unhappiness, misguidedly thinking it was the right thing to do since it appears to work for a lot of other guys


APPEARS to work. It dosen't. It really dosen't.

Start looking for the truly happy marriages out there. IF you can find one, and I wouldn't be surprised if you can't, you'll notice one thing - the guy is NOT shy about expressing both his need and his enjoyment of sex.

There are an incredible number of people out there who will never admit to their unhappiness. Oftentimes even to themselves.

This is why it's so incredibly important to have a stong sense of self worth. The only thing in the entire world that matters is what you think. 

This logic: I repress my unhappiness in my marriage because everyone else does - is bull****.

I'm not bagging on you, so hopefully you don't take this as offense, but so many people think this way. And they lose so much of their life because of it 

You deserve to be happy in your marriage. If you are not happy, you must speak up and you must be willing to move on if your spouse can't met your needs.



Ten_year_hubby said:


> ...seems to be desired by even more women.


But it just isn't. 

On another forum, they have the term "red pill moment" (taken from the Matrix - you can take the blue pill and keep living the dead, unconscious existance you have been, or take the red pill and watch reality unfold around you!!). It's usually brought on by reading the alpha male material, the pick up artist stuff. 

It's the moment you realize how women really work. 

Unhappy men moping around doing what they are told don't make their panties wet. 

Again, look at those happy marriages you might be lucky enough to find. Do those men just do what their told, stuff their needs to attend to their wive's beck and call? 

Men with strong boundries, who assert themselves, who are comfortable with who they are and know how to get what they want, that is what makes women tick. 

Are you that kinda man??


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Saki said:


> Men with strong boundries, who assert themselves, who are comfortable with who they are and know how to get what they want, that is what makes women tick.


Saki and TYH, thanks for the insightful wisdom in your responses.

Question? All women? How would a very shy, emotionally "conservative" woman take to a man like that?


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Chumpless said:


> How would a very shy, emotionally "conservative" woman take to a man like that?


That's a silly question, how would we know?

I'd propose that the woman in question is emotionally conservative because she is in denial of her real emotions and certainly not in touch with her sexuality. She's perhaps put a false front of not being interested because she is intimidated by the man and the feelings he provokes in her.

She's also likely someone with low self esteem so her inner voice would look at him and think "i'm not good enough for him" and would most likely shut herself off from him.

She leads a life governed by fear...

In other words, she'd pretend not to like him or even notice him and always wonder why her panties were wet when he walked away from her :scratchhead:

Remember you should be making changes for yourself, not for what your wife wants. And not to get more sex from her. 

Your goal should be getting to a point where you are strong enough to objectively look at the situation and capable of making the following conclusion: "this woman is broke, she will never be able to meet my needs, I will leave her and spend time with people who are capable of meeting my needs"

I'm not saying divorce is inevitable, but it has to be a realistic option or you are doomed to fail.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Saki, 
You seem smart. Why is it you say it is so hard to find a happy marriage?


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Well of course I can only pull from my own experience. Some time ago I realized I never had a healthy marriage model from my childhood, so I started looking around trying to find what a healthy marriage looks like.

In admittedly limited circle of coworkers, friends, etc, I haven't seen a marriage yet that I'd want to model mine after.

I think there are an incredible number of people out there who refuse to admit their unhappiness yet you can see it show through in little ways once you start picking up on the clues.

On the other hand, perhaps I'm looking for a model that dosen't exist. Maybe unhappiness is just part of life, life is marriage, etc.

I can definitely say, once I started looking for healthy marriages, it was a real eye opener how many marriages I see that are realllllly unhealthy.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

What would define a healthy marriage....?

(1) Two people who are simply happy to be in each others company much of the time ...perhaps not all of the time...and find enjoyment and personal growth by being in each others company....

(2) Two people who meet each others reasonable emotional and sexual needs....and if possible desires too...(you cant always get what you want...but if you try sometimes you find you get what you need?). Ideally two people that are lovers at least some of the years they are together...perhaps more sometimes than others...but there should be some good romance/intimacy/sexual enjoyment in the relationship although it might go up and down and up and down again over the years.

(3) If parents, two people that work as a team as parents and care deeply about the health, education, and personal growth of their children which may include reasonable self sacrifice...

(4) Two people that will stand by each other in times of difficulty such as illness or financial difficulty. Two people that feel that they desire to help each other to better navigate through life's troubles.

(5) Two people that don't take advantage of each other, but instead contribute to the betterment of each others lives. When sacrifice is required by one party, it is done happily and the other person is genuinely grateful.

(6) Two people that are emotionally and physically faithful to each other in monogamy (unless that is not in their agreement).


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Well, last evening I told my wife I was in love with her. Her response? A pat on the back. Now I don't even want to make love to her.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

I read a really really good book called "Co Dependant No More".

I really think it would be good for you Chumpless. I understand how defeating it must feel when something like that happens. However, your focus is very much on her and it seems very much like you are letting her control your inner peace. 

It seems like you need to work on finding ways to center yourself, so your self confidence and self esteem come from inside instead of from her approval.

Fetishwife, I think you present a pretty decent idea of a healthy marriage. I really truly don't know many, maybe any?, marriages out there that really fit that description.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Chumpless said:


> Now I don't even want to make love to her.


Chumpless, I would ask you to please try to get yourself to another viewpoint on this matter. Please don't let your wife's action (or inaction) control your wants. It is right to say you love your wife. It is right to want to make love to her. In my humble opinion, you have let one little action on her part lead you down the wrong path here


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C,
That is an extremely "hot" behavior. If you are already the warmer partner, you will never get a positive response to that comment.




Chumpless said:


> Well, last evening I told my wife I was in love with her. Her response? A pat on the back. Now I don't even want to make love to her.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Saki said:


> "this woman is broke, she will never be able to meet my needs, I will leave her and spend time with people who are capable of meeting my needs"
> 
> I'm not saying divorce is inevitable, but it has to be a realistic option or you are doomed to fail.


Saki,

I personally feel it is a little too harsh to leave someone because they are broken. My personal conclusion in my similar situation is more like:

"this woman is broke, she will not be able to find her way to meet my needs in her current condition. I will love her and care for her and encourage her and support her until she is healed. I will drive her wherever she needs to go, sit beside her and hold her hand, look things up for her, reach out to others on her behalf and do whatever it takes to work through this together. I she decides to withdraw into aloneness rather than pursue and work for relationship, I will honor her choice by letting her go and I will find someone else to be in relationship with.


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Well


Everyone is broken in one way or another. You'll come up empty looking for perfection in a partner so you must be willing to accept broken, flawed people as a spouse
Support for your partner is great. Growth is good, but it is not a given.
How much of your life are you wliling to give up to the potential that your spouse may one day met your needs???? Tough question, right? What happens if they work at it but fail to ever do it? What happens if they work at it for 15 years, stop working at it, than you look back at 15 years of your life you'll never get back?

I'm certainly not saying there is anything "wrong" with your statement. But I do caution against foresaking your present happiness for potential future happiness.

There must be a line drawn in the sand somewhere. If you do not develop a strong personal conviction about where your line in the sand is, people will not respect it and it will keep moving it backwards.

And lastly, my main point was simply that you are doing nothing but bluffing if you truly aren't capable of divorce deep in your heart. If you aren't capable of making that move, there is no reason for her to respect you, to remain faithful, to meet your needs.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Saki said:


> How much of your life are you wliling to give up to the potential that your spouse may one day met your needs???? Tough question, right? What happens if they work at it but fail to ever do it? What happens if they work at it for 15 years, stop working at it, than you look back at 15 years of your life you'll never get back?


I think there is a certain hope that comes from getting both partners on board to solve their mutual problems. No one is so broken that they can't be healed and brought into a mutually satisfying relationship. The only question here is the question of motivation and that's where I would suggest that we draw the line in the sand. Partners need to agree on a timetable with specific accomplishments and specific timeframes and then stick to it. If self help is not successful after 10 days then the next step might be an outside counselor. If the counselor is not making progress after several visits, then another type of counselor may be appropriate. With one spouse sticking to their guns and insisting firmly on the need move forward, I would bet that over 90% of mismatched "drive" complaints we see on this site could be solved in short order. What I mostly see is the woman continuing to avoid intimacy as a result of her husband's even greater desire to avoid conflict.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Saki is mostly right. I am in a similar situation, but a bit more advanced. I've basically reached the inner peace stage.

When your needs are not met, you start with a lot of arguing. You show your wife you are weak. She won't meet your needs. You have no option but concentrate on yourself and the kids. You do that. You ignore your wife's needs and concentrate on your family, your job, etc. What does you wife do? She might be pleased at the beginning. But the problem is: will she ever be prepared to meet your needs? My answer would be "no". In the second stage she will be a bit upset. Her emotional needs are not met, after all. But she is not prepared to meet YOUR needs. So, in the third stage she will resign herself to the status quo.

All very well. But what does this mean to you? What do you get out of this? Well, you will definitely feel you've finally acted and you will regain some self-respect. As far as the relationship is concerned, you will lose the intimacy, the closeness and eventually will fall out of love. I've been there. So, if you are not prepared to divorce, get ready for a life in "limbo", but it's a limbo you created and not imposed on you. It's YOUR choice. 

If you are lucky, the first stage will work and your wife will find her desire for you again. Personally, I'm very sceptical. 

Saki makes a good point...

_"How much of your life are you wliling to give up to the potential that your spouse may one day met your needs???? Tough question, right? What happens if they work at it but fail to ever do it? What happens if they work at it for 15 years, stop working at it, than you look back at 15 years of your life you'll never get back?"_

Food for thought.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Saki's thoughts about how many successful marriages really do exist are interesting. After studying relationships as I have, I see red flags with most of our friends:

One wife has bad boundaries and thinks nothing of being in my house alone with me and commenting on my fitness, another wife bags on her husband openly, another wife treats her husband as a maid and handyman and he dare not question her, the chronic sleeping pills, the heavy drinking, the lack of unified front in parenting, another wife who feels so disrespected by her husband that she hangs on every bit of attention she gets from other men, the wife who has complained for years about the LD husband, the flirty wife who whispers racy things into my ear on the dance floor...and on and on.

I can't really think of the perfect couple and even if I could, it would be the perfectly presented couple. It somehow makes me feel better being the one that expects more than trudging along in misery. At least we are engaged in trying to make it better.


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