# Not compatible sexually in a long marriage



## jrj4auburn (Oct 11, 2014)

My wife and I have been married for almost 20 years. We have two kids that are now teenagers. She was always the type of wife who took pride in her kids, so I was put last on her list, so in return she's not that high on priority list either. We rarely do anything together. The one that's crazy about our relationship is we rarely argue either and if we do it's about sex or lack there of. I'm in my late 40's and I still have a strong sex drive. However my wife has never really had the drive I've had. I just wanted to give a little history about our marriage before I dive into the main issue.

In our years of marriage we've really never clicked sexually. The thing that has kept us together is the love for our kids and convenience of staying together. Plus, I think we do love one another. Also, financially it would be next to impossible to survive on our own. Plus, both of our kids are very good kids and really smart, so we stay together to make sure they stay on their path.

I've always had a high sex drive, so sex is very important to me. My wife seems to be okay with having sex once or twice a month at the max. i desire it at least 3 or 4 times a week, sometimes more. The main issue in the bedroom is our lack of making each other happy with the things we like. My wife claims she likes being touched all over and she wants me to be aggressive. I desire different positions, oral and I'd like my wife to make the move on me to make me feel like she really wants me. I just really feel like she's not interested in me because when we do have sex, she rarely has an orgasm. She tells me she's always willing but i don't care to have sex with someone that really doesn't want to have sex back. She also has so many restrictions in the bedroom. I'm not a freak but I like more than just missionary. I also like to perform oral on her and when I do she always has a huge orgasm. The thing is she rarely lets me perform this on her. She feels that it's nasty to do this. When it comes to me, she will perform oral, but never all the way and most of the time she act like it's a job rather than something she's enjoying because she's making me happy. She will never go all the way either. We've worked on compromises but most of them leaned toward her rather than how I'd like it. 

The bottom line is we've discussed this many times with never any change to take place to make this situation better. I think we really do love one another so that's why I don't want a divorce but something has to give. 

I look forward to some responses that I hope can help my situation.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You will get a lot of advice.

The questions are does your wife lack desire for you or for sex in general?

If you become happier, would your wife want to have sex with you so that she could catch whatever you had?

What sort of BD do you practice?

Do you have any toys?

Since divorce is not an option, so you feel trapped?

Have you read MMSLP?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Whatever she is, she's been acceptable enough to keep around for 20 years and she's found you acceptable enough to keep around. Whoever could be around the corner could very well turn out to be much worse. There are meth cookers, bad check writers, serial killers, freaks, psychos, devil worshipers, and a whole world full of people who would make your wife look like the ideal catch. 
Whatever her shortcomings, you can live with this one. You've been doing it for 20 years. I would expect my wife to put my kids first. If the house were on fire, I wouldn't want her wasting time trying to persuade me out the door. I'd expect her to kick me awake and immediately grab younguns. If the cupboards were going bare, I'd expect her to feed kids first. I believe it's normal for most mammals to do so. 
She's given you at least two decades of her life, bore your kids, and in a few years you'll both be grandparents. To me, that shows she has quite a bit of interest in you even if she doesn't function like a porn star in the rack. At least y'all can discuss these sexual differences like adults in pretty graphic. I'd think two adults with as much shared history as you two have can figure out a mutually acceptable compromise. Sexually, maybe good enough is as good as you're gonna get, but that beats nothing. It beats having a cheater, someone who hates your kids, kicks your dog, cusses in front of your mama, etc. 
Whether your wife is Miss Perfect or a ball and chain depends on how you perceive her. Since leaving isn't really an option (and probably not even smart), why not figure out how to feel more content in your situation? First thing every morning, actually write down five things you appreciate about her. Make a point of doing maybe one or two special little things to show your appreciation. Because all humans have to justify every action to themselves, you'll pretty soon find yourself seeing her more in a positive light and less in a negative one. Nobody likes being told they're inadequate (especially sexually), so you'll probably find your increased praise and attention will translate into her being more sexually aggressive. Stands to reason if she's getting more of what she wants in the rack (you being aggressive, touching her all over, etc) she'll be more apt to want it more often.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Jrj:

I understand the voice that whispers in your ear. It is very seductive and destructive.

She wants you to take charge in the bedroom department. Yet you seem reluctant. That is your insecurity talking.

Many women have responsive desire. In other words, they are not thinking about or wanting sex until something is done to them to "wake up" that side of them.

First, you need to read "Hold On To Your N.U.T.s" by Wayne Levine. It addresses both of the issues I just discussed.

Next, you need to have an open dialogue with your wife about what her deepest sexual desires are.

My wife was gently hinting for years that she wanted me to dominate her in the bedroom. I always ran things, but was never dominant with her.

I finally figured it out, after 18 months of sexlessness (other factors, but this was one), and she is much more responsive now.

So understand that you need to communicate and then execute. And then silence that little boy that is insecure about how attractive you are to your wife ( in the book).

Keep posting.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I'm not so sure about the 'should put the kids first' thing. Of course the example of the fire is an exceptional case. course she should try to save the kids first, but beyond that this is not a good thing.

the kids will be around for eighteen years or so and then gone.

then you and your wife will be alone for the rest of your lives.

My parents (WWII generation) taught me the husband and wife come first. Literally and priority wise. We kids got lots of love, but never came before my Mom and Dad.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Schedule an appointment for the two of you with a licensed sex therapist. They can help you work through your "incompatibilities."

She needs to understand your frustration, and she needs to be more open-minded and comfortable with exploring a healthy sexual relationship. A therapist can help with this.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Yet another example of marrying someone that you know is a sexual mismatch and then getting upset about it later.


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## OnAnIsland (Oct 3, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> She needs to understand your frustration, and she needs to be more open-minded and comfortable with exploring a healthy sexual relationship. A therapist can help with this.


Of course she 'needs' to understand him and be more open-minded and comfortable about her sexuality. But she _doesn't_. She hasn't for 20 years... 

JRJ, I feel for you and fear this is the direction in which my own marriage is heading. I know what four years of this has been like and I can only imagine the frustration of 20. Cycling through different approaches, different angles of discussion just to make her understand. Consistently giving her orgasms via oral sex whenever the rare mood strikes her to be pleasured... only to never receive it in return. Always getting bumped 'down the list' by whatever life throws at you. Giving her space, giving her more attention, more help, more hugs, more gifts, more of whatever the hell she proclaims or seems to want... but getting only excuses as to why you will not receive what you want. 

In my case, this madness has now included the '180' and otherwise-sound advice about improving yourself physically and emotionally and allowing her to respond to the changes. Which she doesn't... because she is simply, inexplicably not interested in a normal, healthy sex life. Not with me, not with herself, not with whatever fantasy of a man she could conjure up. She wants to be adored for being a good person and a good mother, and she believes the problem is that her husband has a sex drive that is unrealistically high and that if anything is ruining the marriage it is her husband's rigid insistence that sex be a regular part of it. Really... who needs or even wants it more than five times a year?

There is no medical problem. There is no religious hang-up. There is no cheating on either end. No abuse, no ongoing fight over money, children, household duties, politics, the color of the drapes or any other damn thing. There is nothing to _fix_. There is no spark to recapture. There is no trick to unveil in the bedroom. There is no talk that _this time_ will work.

I imagine this rings true. Another commenter noted that this has been good enough for twenty years. Has it? Will it be good enough for the rest of your life? Only you can answer that. You obviously love your children, as I love my child. You do not want to put them through a divorce, which I agree is an almost unthinkable option. Life is about choices, however, and sometimes there are no perfect options. You have to choose which bad outcome is most palatable. And which could carry unintended consequences... good, bad or terrible.

If there is something that can turn this around, it is going to come from her. You cannot change her. You can only clearly, respectfully and honestly make it clear how you feel and what you want in the marriage. The rest is up to her. If she begins to open up and tell you things she needs, wants or fears then work with her and try to put the resentment aside. Honestly, after 20 years of this I don't know what the chances of success are.

I do know that I will not make it that long. You have my respect for trying, my sympathy and my best wishes.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

OnAnIsland said:


> Of course she 'needs' to understand him and be more open-minded and comfortable about her sexuality. But she _doesn't_. She hasn't for 20 years...


Exactly. I speak from experience. I WAS in a loveless, near-sexless marriage for 20 years.  The one thing that might have saved my marriage was a sex therapist. But since my Ex refused to go... Divorce.



OnAnIsland said:


> If there is something that can turn this around, *it is going to come from her.* You cannot change her. You can only clearly, respectfully and honestly make it clear how you feel and what you want in the marriage. *The rest is up to her.*


Yes, BUT... if she doesn't know HOW to turn this around, if she doesn't have the "tools" in her emotional toolbox, she CAN'T come around. *Hence the suggestion to visit a sex therapist to "learn" those tools...* She obviously can't do it "on her own." Hasn't been able to in 20 years.


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## jrj4auburn (Oct 11, 2014)

Let me make a few points. 
1. I'm glad my wife does what she does for my kids. My son can go to just about any college he wants because of a very high ACT score and give my wife credit for this because of her guidance. I just wishes she made the same effort for me. She'll do anything for our kids but she won't even take the time to plan a date. Every date night we've ever had is because I asked for it and I made the plans. 
2. I'm very aware that I don't do everything she wants either. My reason for this is because I've tried and while she may have been happy, I never got what I wanted. So why bother if nothing is gonna change to benefit me. One time I went 3 months straight with me doing everything she wanted but my needs stayed ignored. 
3. Outside the bedroom my wife is a great person, hard worker and good morals. I think that's why I've stayed with her so long. 
4. I've taken her to adult stores to get toys but she doesn't feel comfortable with doing this. We've also watched movies and even though I get great responses, she rarely wants to watch adult movie. I almost feel like she thinks see is nasty or something. I don't get that because I'm open to just about anything. 
5. With my son less than a year away from my college and my daughter is 4 years away from college, I'm realizing we are gonna have major issues when they're gone.


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## jrj4auburn (Oct 11, 2014)

Attn: Onanisland. Is you wife and my wife sisters? You've pretty much described my wife to a "T".


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

From the dawn of time until maybe 1973, I doubt it occurred to anyone that compatible sexual appetites should even be considered among the qualifications of a life partner.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

jrj4auburn said:


> Let me make a few points.
> 1. I'm glad my wife does what she does for my kids. My son can go to just about any college he wants because of a very high ACT score and *give my wife credit for this because of her guidance*.


Ummm... you sell yourself REALLY short here. ACT and SAT scores are MOSTLY a product of genetics. Sure, you can raise your scores 100-200 points through a good study program and prep-course, but they are designed to assess knowledge AND intelligence (kind of an IQ test in disguise).

Presuming your son got half his genes from you, don't give your wife so much credit for his high scores.

As a former educator, I speak from some experience. Both my kids had VERY high SAT and ACT scores, and I did absolutely nothing to prepare them. They studied for about an hour a night the week before the tests.

You are making excuses for her lack of fulfilling you in the way she should be fulfilling you. She has seriously dropped the ball here. ACT and SAT scores don't keep you warm at night


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

It sounds like you have a great marriage except for a few things in the bedroom. You two have different desires in the bedroom. The best way to satisfy both of you is to compromise. You aren't going to be totally happy and she isn't going to be totally happy. I'll never understand a women not enjoying oral sex. She should let you do that. Be happy she does perform oral sex on you, a lot of women refuse and yes she probably is doing it to make you happy, that is the main reason women do it, to make their man happy.


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

It seems a contradiction - your wife wants you to be aggressive but only wants missionary sex. When you are more aggressive I assume the sex is not just missionary so maybe she really does like other things, but generally wants you to be the pursuer. Sounds like you want her to be sexually aggressive & dominant (to some extent) and she isn't comfortable with that.

Can you describe more what happens in the couple months that you did everything for her, and can you explain what things she just doesn't do for you that you really want? (ie oral to completion?)


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Happilymarried25 said:


> I'll never understand a women not enjoying oral sex. She should let you do that.


I love oral sex and always have a great orgasm when I have it, but I usually feel that he doesn't really want to do it and so I feel insecure asking for it or even when he offers I want him to really insist, so that I don't feel like its a favour. Also even though I love it, it does take a little time for me to orgasm so I get stressed that he is getting impatient.

I know it sounds weird but I have heard too many jokes over the years about men who don't like doing it or the smell or taste or whatever, to really believe men would like to do it. 

I don't feel at all like this with the reverse (me giving him oral sex) and neither does he. In addition I often give oral sex "standalone" (with no reciprocation) and I can't imagine that ever happening the other way around.

Anyways I just want to point out that its not necessarily a snub that she doesn't ask for or accept oral sex regularly.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What is her sexual history? Has she had regular orgasms with other men? What type of orgasms has she had with other men, clitoral or vaginal? How about your background. How did you learn how to have mutually satisfying sex? Start with the fact that your wife does not orgasm with regularity and work with her on that. Suggest sex therapy, but don't make it about her as a problem.

Why not work on your whole relationship and not just sex. From what you wrote, I don't think it is only sex. I think you both have forgotten to look out for each other's happiness in ways that are most important to each of you. Make sure you bring the same level of focus and enthusiasm to all relationship issues not just sex. Your wife may think that all you care about is sex and your own pleasure. Don't let her get that impression.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Sounds like a pretty classic long term marriage. Unlike a lot of long married couples who don't like having sex with each other it sounds like you are not totally sexless like so many are. Not really much that can be done other than leaving and that gets harder as you get older. Marriage is a sexual trap, no doubt about it.


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr B said:


> Sounds like a pretty classic long term marriage. Unlike a lot of long married couples who don't like having sex with each other it sounds like you are not totally sexless like so many are. Not really much that can be done other than leaving and that gets harder as you get older. Marriage is a sexual trap, no doubt about it.



I just heard "paradise by the dashboard lights"...remember the line after the guy finally convinced the girl to have sex by telling her he would "love her til the end of time"... and then they both sing "now we're praying for the end of time". 

But seriously mr b, what a bummer! Not all marriages are sexless or almost sexless.


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## OnAnIsland (Oct 3, 2014)

jrj4auburn said:


> Attn: Onanisland. Is you wife and my wife sisters? You've pretty much described my wife to a "T".


Yes, your additional comments have made me wonder the same thing. For fear of going on another rant, I'll keep this short...

There is a saying that keeps popping into my head lately. It probably sums up how you feel too. Your wife does sound exactly like mine, and it's a special kind of madness to endure. A spouse who is otherwise capable and even wonderful, but has no desire to be a sexual being. You can do everything right, hold her hand and walk her through the building of trust, honesty, comfort, arousal and then lovemaking. She'll enjoy it and be happy for a short time afterwards. You begin to feel confident that a corner has been turned, that you are building towards a better relationship. Then her sexuality falls down a metaphysical well. And the cycle begins again... several weeks or months later, she might be ready for you to take her hand and carefully start from square one again. 

If you needed such a process to perform any of the tasks or provide any of the emotional, financial or existential comfort your wife rightly expects from you you'd probably have been served divorce papers long ago, or at least would be squarely blamed for the bad marriage that doesn't meet her needs. But this is about sexuality... so it becomes a riddle increasingly unsolvable as more and more layers of '_but you just need to do this_' are heaped on top of it.

*When something is truly desired, one finds a way.
When it isn't, one finds an excuse.*


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## OnAnIsland (Oct 3, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Exactly. I speak from experience. I WAS in a loveless, near-sexless marriage for 20 years. The one thing that might have saved my marriage was a sex therapist. But since my Ex refused to go... Divorce.


It might have, it might not have. I feel for you as that must have been torture to think about. You can obviously understand the frustration as you've been through this before. From reading your posts (and your moniker) your solution and happiness have come in a different relationship. For JRJ and myself, at the moment that doesn't seem like a positive outcome. Perhaps we'll be there with you one day giving similar advice. May your happiness continue.

I assume you make a distinction between a sex therapist and a marriage counselor. Any advice on what to seek in that area and how to approach the demand to go? Your insight would be valuable. Having a spouse who is LD and convinced that their drive and is normal and any dissatisfaction with it is the actual problem, this seems a tough sell. The words 'sex therapist' alone I imagine may be met with '_now you want me have a threesome with a shrink?!_' I'd be all for going. Im open to whatever might work.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

OnAnIsland said:


> May your happiness continue.
> 
> *I assume you make a distinction between a sex therapist and a marriage counselor.* Any advice on what to seek in that area and how to approach the demand to go? Your insight would be valuable. Having a spouse who is LD and convinced that their drive and is normal and any dissatisfaction with it is the actual problem, this seems a tough sell. The words 'sex therapist' alone I imagine may be met with *'now you want me have a threesome with a shrink?!' *I'd be all for going. Im open to whatever might work.


Thank you for your well-wishes. 

And yes, there is a definite distinction between a sex therapist and a marriage counselor (although marriage counselors DO deal with sexual issues, just not on the same level or depth, usually). And no, there are no "threesomes" involved, no nudity, no touching. It's basically talk therapy, but on a whole different level than dealing with most "communication" and "conflict" issues of traditional marriage counseling.

I think this article can explain it far better than I can:

Should We See a Sex Therapist? | Psychology Today

*The top two issues* that sex therapists deal with, as pointed out in the article, are: *low sexual desire and frequency disagreements between partners.* I have seen it work wonders in friends' marriages. Sadly, I couldn't get my husband to go, so it didn't work for me


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## OnAnIsland (Oct 3, 2014)

Much appreciated, thanks.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

happy as a clam said:


> Thank you for your well-wishes.
> 
> And yes, there is a definite distinction between a sex therapist and a marriage counselor (although marriage counselors DO deal with sexual issues, just not on the same level or depth, usually). And no, there are no "threesomes" involved, no nudity, no touching. It's basically talk therapy, but on a whole different level than dealing with most "communication" and "conflict" issues of traditional marriage counseling.
> 
> ...


I saw three Sex Therapists
over the years for my sexless marriage and it was a total waste of money. Better to see a psychologist or psychiatrist.


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## jrj4auburn (Oct 11, 2014)

I should have worded that a little differently. I do believe I'm responsible for the other half of his genetics, didn't mean to come across like I had nothing to do with my son being very smart. 



happy as a clam said:


> Ummm... you sell yourself REALLY short here. ACT and SAT scores are MOSTLY a product of genetics. Sure, you can raise your scores 100-200 points through a good study program and prep-course, but they are designed to assess knowledge AND intelligence (kind of an IQ test in disguise).
> 
> Presuming your son got half his genes from you, don't give your wife so much credit for his high scores.
> 
> ...


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## jrj4auburn (Oct 11, 2014)

My wife and I didn't have much sex before we go married, so I wasn't aware of how incompatible we were until we married. 



unbelievable said:


> From the dawn of time until maybe 1973, I doubt it occurred to anyone that compatible sexual appetites should even be considered among the qualifications of a life partner.


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## jrj4auburn (Oct 11, 2014)

When I say she wants me to be aggressive, I mean she wants me to initiate the sex. 

During that 3 month period that I really tried to do what she wanted, the sex was more often and at times satisfying but she didn't budge on her stance on what she'll do. 

You tell me, am I asking too much? I'd like her to occasionally make me a priority and what I mean by that, for her to make a date instead of me 100% of the time. Surprise me from time to time. Watch adult movies occasionally. When she will let herself go and watch those kinds of movies, she actually can get a little freaky, but she will only watch those kinds of movies once or twice a year. It's like she thinks it's wrong to let herself go. Last but not least, allow me to bring other ideas in the bedroom, like toys, roll play...something to spice up the love life. The same ole crap of her occasionally giving me a little oral and then it's missionary or maybe her on top gets very boring and old. So do you think I'm asking too much? I appreciate the people being honest and telling me exactly what they think, that's what I'm looking for. 




greenfern said:


> It seems a contradiction - your wife wants you to be aggressive but only wants missionary sex. When you are more aggressive I assume the sex is not just missionary so maybe she really does like other things, but generally wants you to be the pursuer. Sounds like you want her to be sexually aggressive & dominant (to some extent) and she isn't comfortable with that.
> 
> Can you describe more what happens in the couple months that you did everything for her, and can you explain what things she just doesn't do for you that you really want? (ie oral to completion?)


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## jrj4auburn (Oct 11, 2014)

I'd like your perspective on this since you're a woman. Since you do enjoy receiving and giving, what's your stance on giving all the way? My wife acts like semen is absolutely gross. I've never understand how women that like receiving can feel like this. If a guys willing to perform on a woman with all that a woman goes through each month, she should at least have a good compromise when performing oral on man. 



greenfern said:


> I love oral sex and always have a great orgasm when I have it, but I usually feel that he doesn't really want to do it and so I feel insecure asking for it or even when he offers I want him to really insist, so that I don't feel like its a favour. Also even though I love it, it does take a little time for me to orgasm so I get stressed that he is getting impatient.
> 
> I know it sounds weird but I have heard too many jokes over the years about men who don't like doing it or the smell or taste or whatever, to really believe men would like to do it.
> 
> ...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Since couples began hooking up and calling themselves life partners, most of them never had sex before they got married. A whole lot of them had never even kissed. Some didn't even know each other or have any say in the arrangement at all. The vast majority of those unions were more durable than our present variety. 
I believe our expectations have really changed. If my grandfather could reliably bring home groceries and keep a roof over the family, his wife was thrilled. If she could take care of the house and kids and turn those groceries into something edible, he was thrilled. I don't believe either spent a second wondering whether they were getting optimum sex or quality intimate conversation. If they looked around at their family and everyone was still alive, that was a pretty good day. I think both viewed marriage as service and their primary focus was on what they could do for the other, not what they wanted or weren't getting.


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

I have no problem giving oral to completion. My problem is a little different, my partner likes to have lots of sex but not to orgasm. If I could give oral to completion every day I would be so happy lol.

Anyways it sounds like if you wanted to initiate you could basically have as much sex as you want, and it doesn't sound like she is a dead fish just a little "vanilla". 

When she does like to watch the movies or whatever can you think of what happened before on that day or days previously? Had you set an envirownt that was relaxing for her and maybe built up her sexual desire? Is it easier for her on vacation, away from the house, at a time when she didn't just finish kids stuff or housework? What about a night at a hotel once a month?


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Re post 29 (can't figure out how to reply w quote on topify)...times have changed ...we expect different things from our relationship. I for one am glad my life isn't centered around the fact the I have a roof over my head and food on the table. Third world problems but that's where we are (most people on tam anyways!)


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Is Fighting About Sex Ruining your Marriage? | Psychology Today

There's a simple suggestion in that article that makes a lot of sense, even as men probably don't want to hear it.

Contain your own anxiety. Pursuers tell themselves that if they don't get up to bat x many times then they will never get a home run. Don't let this drive your initiation. Initiate only when you want to make love to your partner. Take care of your sexual needs by yourself if they are about boredom, emotional upset, or a need to sleep. Those aren't wrong/bad/inappropriate reasons to have sex but if you crowd the between-space already with demands and requests - hold off on the ones that are more about yourself than about creating connection.

You have it in your hands to meet your own sexual needs. What you need from your partner is intimacy and closeness. A man does not need to have sex with his wife every few days to feel close to her. He does need a physical release, which he can do himself. Let it be ok to have less but better sex, and remember that sex appears twice on Maslow's hierarchy of needs for a reason. You can meet the first on your own; it's the higher one that can only be met inside of a relationship. Confusing those two needs and where they fall is where many HD people fall into trouble.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Mr B said:


> I saw three Sex Therapists
> over the years for my sexless marriage and it was a total waste of money. Better to see a psychologist or psychiatrist.


Therapy is only as good as the therapist providing it. 

You paint a broad generalization against all sex therapists. Sounds like you just picked three bad apples. Just like in any field, there is a wide range of competence. There are plenty of bad psychologists and psychiatrists out there too.

I stand by my comments.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

SurpriseMyself said:


> You have it in your hands to meet your own sexual needs. What you need from your partner is intimacy and closeness. A man does not need to have sex with his wife every few days to feel close to her. He does need a physical release, which he can do himself. Let it be ok to have less but better sex, and remember that sex appears twice on Maslow's hierarchy of needs for a reason. You can meet the first on your own; it's the higher one that can only be met inside of a relationship. Confusing those two needs and where they fall is where many HD people fall into trouble.


Bullshyte. Putting it in your own hands is one of many things that actually drives a wedge. As someone who is a self-admitted porn addict, I can speak pretty accurately about the damage wrought from allowing porn into a relationship. Self pleasure has that same risk. 

Men are after is sex, women are after money, only women cry, etc. Broad generalizations are never the solution to countless numbers of unique situations.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

farsidejunky said:


> Bullshyte. Putting it in your own hands is one of many things that actually drives a wedge. As someone who is a self-admitted porn addict, I can speak pretty accurately about the damage wrought from allowing porn into a relationship. Self pleasure has that same risk.
> 
> Men are after is sex, women are after money, only women cry, etc. Broad generalizations are never the solution to countless numbers of unique situations.


There's regular masturbation, and then there's over-masturbation/compulsion. Those are distinctly different things, not a slippery slope but normal vs. abnormal. Porn usage is dangerous when it becomes a compulsion. As it said in the article, it's like getting a fix. You need something more erotic, more unusual as time goes by. Plus normal life just won't compare. I doubt many people have the same trouble with masturbation. they know what works and they do it as needed. 

And I'm going to generalize here and say that most people masturbate inside of a relationship, even one that is sexually healthy.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

If sex (frequency or quality) is the problem in an otherwise good marriage and you have reason to believe that she truly loves you and cares about your happiness; here’s what to do.

Decide ahead of time what you are prepared to do if the situation does not improve. Are you willing to divorce? Will you stay in the marriage for a while (for the kid’s sake are just to protect your daily access to the kids) but will leave eventually? If you aren’t willing to do either of these things and you’ve already made your desires known without any improvement, then just give it up and continue to suffer.

If you are willing to risk the marriage have “the Talk”. This is where you explain how important the lack of sex is and why it is important to you. I recommend having her read “When a woman is not in the mood” by Dennis Prager. Explain what will happen if there is no improvement. A miracle may occur and this might be what was needed to wake her up and start getting things back on track. If your wife doesn’t love you or care about your happiness, this won’t work. But that’s okay. If that’s how she feels then you shouldn’t want to be married to her anyway. 

If nothing changes, get the papers drawn up and serve her (if you’re willing to leave immediately). If this doesn’t have an impact on her, nothing will. If nothing changes, proceed with the divorce. 

If you’re not willing to divorce yet, begin the 180 (you can read about what this consists of elsewhere on this site). There is a chance that she’ll notice something’s up and take steps to save the marriage. If she doesn’t get the message, that’s okay. You’ll be happier, better prepared to leave the marriage in the future and in better shape to meet and attract a woman who does care about your happiness in the future.

It’s usually it’s too much to ask that your wife be as enthusiastic about sex as you are initially. One of the most effective methods of improving one’s sex life is “fake it until you make it” and this necessarily means they probably won’t match your enthusiasm initially (if ever). BJ’s are an example; it’s a bit much to ask that she enjoy giving them as much as you like receiving them. Very few women do it for their own benefit. They do it because they love making their husband happy.

There are some that think a wife’s sexual desire for her husband is completely outside of her rational control. That if the husband “plays the game right” she will necessarily want sex with him. There may be something to this, but if I wanted love from someone which was simply a response to outside stimuli involving no rational agency, I’d get a dog. Be a better man because it’s good to be a better man. Not do get your wife hot. Plus, how could you respect someone like that?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SurpriseMyself said:


> A man does not need to have sex with his wife every few days to feel close to her.


That is totally and completely wrong.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

happy as a clam said:


> Therapy is only as good as the therapist providing it.
> 
> You paint a broad generalization against all sex therapists. Sounds like you just picked three bad apples. Just like in any field, there is a wide range of competence. There are plenty of bad psychologists and psychiatrists out there too.
> 
> I stand by my comments.


After my last (Sex) therapist threw in the towel I started researching my particular set of problems and I was horrified at the difference between the latest papers and books and what many, if not most Sex Therapists were STILL telling their patients. Some treatment modalities were 40 years old and had been discredited in the last few years. Half of what I was told turned out to be old outdated information. And the "Homework Exercises" we were given turned out to actually make the situation worse for most people including my wife and I.

My advice is if you want to see a Sex Therapists do as much online research as you can about the sexual difficulties you are having BEFORE going so you can judge for yourself whether they are giving you the most up to date information.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

jrj4auburn said:


> You tell me, am I asking too much? I'd like her to occasionally make me a priority and what I mean by that, for her to make a date instead of me 100% of the time. Surprise me from time to time. *Watch adult movies occasionally. When she will let herself go and watch those kinds of movies, she actually can get a little freaky, but she will only watch those kinds of movies once or twice a year. It's like she thinks it's wrong to let herself go. Last but not least, allow me to bring other ideas in the bedroom, like toys, roll play...something to spice up the love life. The same ole crap of her occasionally giving me a little oral and then it's missionary or maybe her on top gets very boring and old.* *So do you think I'm asking too much?* I appreciate the people being honest and telling me exactly what they think, that's what I'm looking for.


Do you find her beautiful and attractive and sexy as she is? Or will you only find her that way if she does the things you are asking for?

If she's just not into watching adult movies and getting her freak on, no amount of your begging for it will change how she feels about it. She can fake it for you if you demand it, but will you honestly think she is hot and sexy if she does these things even though she gets nothing out of them?

It is a mistake to see some hint of arousal and then decide that you know she "secretly" enjoys getting her freak on or watching adult movies. This is not a sex positive point of view. You are trying to get into HER mind and you are making a lot of assumptions. If she doesn't want to get off the track she's on, do you honestly want her to? Why?

Let me ask you point blank: do you feel she honestly desires you, and thinks you are attractive and sexy?

Because if she does, she's not going to "need" the adult movies to stir up her lust and passion.

And by the way, calling the sex you do have together "the same ole' crap" isn't helping your cause. Do you enjoy her, just her body and her personal sexiness, or not?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Buddy400 said:


> If sex (frequency or quality) is the problem in an otherwise good marriage and you have reason to believe that she truly loves you and cares about your happiness; here’s what to do.
> 
> Decide ahead of time what you are prepared to do if the situation does not improve. Are you willing to divorce? Will you stay in the marriage for a while (for the kid’s sake are just to protect your daily access to the kids) but will leave eventually? If you aren’t willing to do either of these things and you’ve already made your desires known without any improvement, then just give it up and continue to suffer.
> 
> ...


This won't work. There is no love here. It's and angry and demanding tirade. You'd have to wonder why a person who feels this way would want an emotional connection. What frame of mind does his wife have to be in to desire a loving connection with a demanding and hostile man? 

He has to decide that he is done before he asks his wife or a divorce. Once he demands sex as the price for his presence, it is over. He has to be willing to leave. 

A better thing to say would be nonthreatening and loving. He can say he loves her and wants to be with her but he cannot do so if she does not love him. All he is asking her to do is show her love.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mr B said:


> After my last (Sex) therapist threw in the towel I started researching my particular set of problems and I was horrified at the difference between the latest papers and books and what many, if not most Sex Therapists were STILL telling their patients. Some treatment modalities were 40 years old and had been discredited in the last few years. Half of what I was told turned out to be old outdated information. And the "Homework Exercises" we were given turned out to actually make the situation worse for most people including my wife and I.
> 
> My advice is if you want to see a Sex Therapists do as much online research as you can about the sexual difficulties you are having BEFORE going so you can judge for yourself whether they are giving you the most up to date information.


Mr B can you give a synopsis of the new info that you refer to? it might be helpful.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> It's and angry and demanding tirade. You'd have to wonder why a person who feels this way would want an emotional connection. What frame of mind does his wife have to be in to desire a loving connection with a demanding and hostile man?


The following is an angry and demanding tirade? 

"This is where you explain how important the lack of sex is and why it is important to you. I recommend having her read “When a woman is not in the mood” by Dennis Prager." 

It's demanding and hostile"?

They have "discussed this many times with never any change to take place to make this situation better."


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> Mr B can you give a synopsis of the new info that you refer to? it might be helpful.


Perhaps the treatments for some kind of sexual problems might work but my research proved a lot of Sex Therapists were behind the times right across the board. You wouldn't BELIEVE the weird stuff they had us doing. It was so bad that my wife quit halfway through although I myself stayed on for another few years with different therapists.

Something I can discuss here in the open forum is probably the biggest problem with the whole field in my opinion. Sex therapy is built on a treatment technique called "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy" I could fill pages discussing what this is but to put it simply it is psychological treatment that deals with the here and now as opposed to psychoanalysis which tends to deal with a person's past history.

CBT can work for minor sexual problems in a marriage. But not for deep seated sexual disorders and dysfunctions, most of which are caused by life experiences, especially childhood experiences, or are part of various personality disorders. Anything you have to dig deep for, a Sex Therapist, if they ask at all, won't generally dwell too long on your past history and this can be disastrous for many types of sex problems.

My first two Sex Therapists never even asked me about my history, which, after doing some research I found mind blowing.
And the 3rd spend about 15 minutes taking notes and then never mentioned it again. This was a few years ago now, maybe things have changed but those were the problems in my experience.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Buddy400 said:


> The following is an angry and demanding tirade?
> 
> "This is where you explain how important the lack of sex is and why it is important to you. I recommend having her read “When a woman is not in the mood” by Dennis Prager."
> 
> ...


But Buddy I'm am not disagreeing with the strength of your feelings. I do feel that being willing to leave is your ultimate trump card. 

The way you reach that decision is my issue. Your approach seems hostile. There is a valid reason for your feelings however, presenting them in the way you suggest here and expecting positive results will leave you disappointed. Humans don't work that way. Being backed into a conner usually drives the other person resist to show their independence. If the D is an idle threat, then you lose credibility. 

It's better to offer a concrete actions that you carefully worked out for both of you to follow. Decide on benchmark accomplishments and a timeline. Pull out all of the stops and if it does not work, you know that you did your best.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mr B said:


> Perhaps the treatments for some kind of sexual problems might work but my research proved a lot of Sex Therapists were behind the times right across the board. You wouldn't BELIEVE the weird stuff they had us doing. It was so bad that my wife quit halfway through although I myself stayed on for another few years with different therapists.
> 
> Something I can discuss here in the open forum is probably the biggest problem with the whole field in my opinion. Sex therapy is built on a treatment technique called "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy" I could fill pages discussing what this is but to put it simply it is psychological treatment that deals with the here and now as opposed to psychoanalysis which tends to deal with a person's past history.
> 
> ...


I am sorry I did not read your story so Ill ask, did anything improve? 

For me, simply understanding myself and my husband by reading good books and my time on TAM was seismic. I genuinely did not know men and any emotions connected to sex with a woman they loved. I believe if more women knew that, they would view sex as an important part of the relationship and not a fun activity that can be dispensed with when things get hectic.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> I am sorry I did not read your story so Ill ask, did anything improve? .


No god no we've been sexless for 26 years. 6 years of therapy was a total waste of money.


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