# Is my wife cheating on me? Problem with her guy friend.



## SteveSD1

Hello all,

I am a 31 year old male and my wife is 25. We have been married for a year and a half. Recently my wife has gone back to school. 

She met Joe, a 39 year old single divorced guy at her community college. She claims he has two bachelors degrees. Claims he was a dual service branch guy. Army ranger and then Navy. He has a house boat at a yacht club.

Wife meets and talks to him at school every monday and wednesday.

Joe invited my wife on an overnight trip to Catalina island with friends on his boat. I didn't like the idea and told my wife I was not comfortable in her going overnight by herself with a guy she hardly knew. She decided not too but then the same day complained that she wishes she could have gone. I communicated with her that It would be cool if we both could go on a trip with Joe and his friends. My wife said that Joe told her he would invite us both if an opportunity presented itself. That invitation has not been made yet.....what a surprise. 

In mid September she went with him on an early morning hike and came home around noon.

After an argument with me in late September my wife left our house and drove to his house at 11:30 pm and stayed there until 230am. After she came home I asked her what they did together she said they went swimming with clothes on and watched the show "Archer" with him. She said that she needed to be around someone who did not want to cause conflict with her. Our argument was nothing major that I could remember.

The next day we had a fight about it. I was pissed that she left in the middle of the night to go visit this guy. I told her it made me nervous and unsafe that she did that. I also told her I was worried about her. She said she would not hang out with guys in 
the middle of the night from then on.

October 18th she went to his house at 8am to "carpool" to the zoo for a class project. Our home is closer to the zoo than his house. So she went out of her way to "carpool" with him. We have limited income at the moment with not alot of extra gas money. So going further makes no sense. My wife left our house in clothes she claimed where pajamas the previous night and said she changed to normal clothes at his house before the zoo. She claims to have stayed at the zoo for hours observing animals. She told me she needed to film some of the animals so she took our camcorder. She never filmed anything.

After the zoo she went back to his house to hang out and talk. He also bought her lunch. She has told me multiple times in the past that other guys buying her food makes it feel too much like a date and she would not be comfortable about it. She said that he just offered to buy her lunch and she went with it. She got home at 530pm. She claimed they just hung out at his house after the zoo. My warning bells went off like crazy.

Later that day I took a peak at my wife's phone and her text history with Joe. One line caught my eye. My wife texted him that she was watching a show about "Horny badgers". He responded with "Lol you horny girl". I confronted my wife about this and she claims that it was just an auto correct error. She ment to write she was watching a show about "Honey badgers"on netflix. This is a legit show which I watched with her. She said that she was surprised when Joe called her a horny girl since It was not like him. 

The next day she told me that she asked Joe about it and that Joe was just messing around with her.

Today (October 24th) she went to his house at 8am and got home at 7pm. They went paddle boarding and "hung out" all day at the beach. When she got home and I asked her about details about what they did she got very defensive and said I just wanted to start a fight. She told me that she even told Joe before she left his house that she didn't want to come home because I would "start a fight".

My warming radar has been going off about this guy since I heard my wife talking about him. At first she would constantly talk about him and tell me about things he said and things she learned from him. This got very old after awhile and didn't seem right to me. She seems to have him on her mind constantly. I 
asked her to stop talking about Joe to me so much. My wife agreed that she was overdoing it and would work on talking about him so much. 

They text back and forth until late at night every day and they are friends on facebook.

My wife claims that he is a very busy guy with alot of friends, two jobs and a busy school schedule....yet he seems to constantly have the time to meet with my wife and "hang out" with her the entire day. It seems very suspicious to me. She will not let me meet him or invite me to hang out with the both of them. She claims that I am too jealous and would cause a problem. She said that she will let me meet him when she feels I'm ready. She keeps on telling me that its ok for her to have "her friends" that she keeps to herself.

She does not have many friends in general. She has two girlfriends she has known for about a year and one other guy friend she talks to at school. I have no problem with my wife having friends. I'm also ok with her having guy friends....but her relationship with Joe is stressing me out and I have a bad feeling 
about it. She seems to be infatuated with this guy. 

My wife has never cheated on me in the past and she claims that she never will. When I expressed my concerns about Joe she says that she knows how to set boundaries with her guy friends and that she would make sure they where in check when around her. I asked her how she would like it if I was constantly talking with and spending time with a single woman. My wife says that I am just being insecure and controlling.

I know this guy wants to get with my wife. All the signs are there.

I have tried to express to my wife many times that I wish she would spent less time with this guy and talk to him less. This has always led to a fight and my wife being defensive. Its even gotten to the point that my wife has a bed in the basement that she sleeps in when she claims that I am being "too heavy" and 
that I "weigh her down" and that I am "always mad". This is not true and I am one of the most laid back and positive guys I know. I have my own issues I need to work through and I do have a habit of shutting down and not communicating as much as my wife would like. But tons of people around me like me and I am very easy to get along with. When we have fights and arguments my wife talks about separation and divorce very often. I don't say things like that or make threats toward her like she does toward me. I have suggested we go see a marriage councilor or have us talk with a 3rd party there to moderate. But my wife has refused. We both attended a program called Life Skills together earlier in the year and it helped us get along. But now she is in an advanced version of that and I don't have the time and money to attend it with her. So she uses it against me.

Or am I being paranoid here? Or are all of these signs pointing to my wife emotionally or physically cheating? Am I being controlling?

Please help.


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## earlyforties

I stopped at 'wife gone back to school'.
Yeah, nothing to worry about. You're being paranoid and controlling.


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## Meli33

I disagree with above poster. There is definitely something going on here. The amount of time, talking and texting this guy is totally inappropriate for a married woman. You need to put a stop to it now... it sounds like they are in a relationship by the amount of time they a spending together. You need to do some investigating.


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## manfromlamancha

Steve, you are not paranoid at all. Here are my observations:


Your wife is behaving inappropriately and is blatantly disrespecting your feelings and wishes.

This POS Joe is a predator and seems to hang around community colleges to pick up easy tail.

Both of them have crossed many boundaries - too many for it to be "nothing" - hanging out alone together, middle of the night swims, her going out of the way to be with him, him inviting only her to overnight trips to Catalina Island, her accepting lunch from him etc.

She is, at the very least, having an EA with him but the chances are high that they have got physical - no guy will spend so much alone time with a woman without taking it physical (so prepare yourself for this).

When you uncover this she will rewrite marital history to justify her despicable behaviour and blame it all on you. She has already started this by complaining to him about your fighting with her.

When you uncover this she will also attempt to gaslight or even trickle truth you about what actually happened, so make sure you have indisputable evidence before you confront and NEVER reveal your sources of information (even if you reconcile).

You need to stop complaining or saying anything at all and go into stealth investigative mode to uncover what is going on. 


Get access to her phone and email and snoop on what is going on her communications with him (before she deletes them) - see if you can recover deleted messages and emails. 

Plant a VAR in her car (as per Weightlifters excellent thread on evidence gathering) under her car seat with Velcro and this should tell you what she says to him when driving. Plant one in the house where she is likely to call him from when you are away. Put a PI on her tail (or you do it secretly) to catch her in the act.

Once you get the evidence secure it somewhere safe and make copies. 

Consult an attorney to protect yourself. 

Then expose the affair to friends and family and in particular, the POSOM's wife or gf - you will need to find all his details before you expose. 

Then confront her and file for divorce simultaneously (do not tell her that you are filing). 

Do the 180 to help yourself heal.

All of this will hopefully bring her affair to a grinding halt.

Then you have to decide what you want to do. You have to decide what your deal breakers are. If she is truly and actively remorseful, you may choose to reconcile but it will be a long difficult process with her needing to do all the heavylifting.

Or you may choose to divorce and go find someone else that won't do this to you.

If you do choose to reconcile, be careful that it is not a false reconciliation with her taking the affair underground. Be especially careful about her asking you to "just get over it".

I am truly sorry that you are here and others (including Weightlifter) will be along to ask more questions and give you advice. It would be useful to know how was your relationship and sex life with your wife leading up to this and then since she met this [email protected]?

Take care.


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## honcho

39 claims to bachelor degrees already, served in not only one but two branches of military and a boat at the yacht club. Wow is this Mr perfect or what? How does he find the time to seduce your wife?

This relationship has crossed the line. She is choosing him over you and the marriage. Her getting defense and bringing up divorce or separation is just another angle on blamedeflecting. She reverses the argument and puts you in defense mode. 
Its time for Mr perfect army ranger to exit your wife's life. This will progress to a PA if it hasn't already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SteveSD1

manfromlamancha,

Our relationship and sex life has dwindled in the past few months. There has been a constant stream of arguments between us lately. I am the kind of guy that needs connection to be intimate and lately my wife has been very critical of me and not very relational. Whenever I try to express how I feel she tends to run over my emotions and does not let me express myself without criticism.

Over the past 2 weeks we have had sex twice. And both times it was passionless. 

Here is a text message she sent me tonight after we had our argument where I tried to ask her what she was doing all day.

"I am turning off my phone for a few days. Please stay away from me until I can handle life again. Its not personal I just need my space. Life is too much right now."

In a previous text she also says that she has been falling apart emotionally for a month now. 

Personally I think she feels guilty.


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## Meli33

*Re: Re: Is my wife cheating on me? Problem with her guy friend.*



SteveSD1 said:


> manfromlamancha,
> 
> Our relationship and sex life has dwindled in the past few months. There has been a constant stream of arguments between us lately. I am the kind of guy that needs connection to be intimate and lately my wife has been very critical of me and not very relational. Whenever I try to express how I feel she tends to run over my emotions and does not let me express myself without criticism.
> 
> Over the past 2 weeks we have had sex twice. And both times it was passionless.
> 
> Here is a text message she sent me tonight after we had our argument where I tried to ask her what she was doing all day.
> 
> "I am turning off my phone for a few days. Please stay away from me until I can handle life again. Its not personal I just need my space. Life is too much right now."
> 
> In a previous text she also says that she has been falling apart emotionally for a month now.
> 
> Personally I think she feels guilty.


Seriously!!!! You would expect this type of text if you were dating someone for a couple of months BUT from your wife...... You cannot just text your husband a message like that. She is not a teenager but an adult that is MARRIED. She is making herself look very guilty. She is not having time alone. She is with this guy Joe. Seem like it has already turned into a PA. I'm so sorry you are going through this. You sound like a great guy and you do not deserve to be treated like this.


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## SteveSD1

Meli33 said:


> Seriously!!!! You would expect this type of text if you were dating someone for a couple of months BUT from your wife...... You cannot just text your husband a message like that. She is not a teenager but an adult that is MARRIED. She is making herself look very guilty. She is not having time alone. She is with this guy Joe. Seem like it has already turned into a PA. I'm so sorry you are going through this. You sound like a great guy and you do not deserve to be treated like this.


She did come in after that text and we tried to have a conversation. Of course I wanted to talk to her about what she did with Joe all day but the second I brought it up she shut me down and said I was disrespecting her and she walked back down to the basement. But not before saying she will be filing for separation.

I really don't know what to do right now. How do I even try to get to the bottom of this when she doesnt want to talk about it?


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## italianjob

Sorry but I think your wife is already into a full fledged affair (PA). When those alarm bells went off the first time, you should have done something about it immediatly.
She's not sleeping with you because she doesn't want to cheat on Joe with you (when she did it was duty passionless sex for the same reason).


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## italianjob

manfromlamancha said:


> Steve, you are not paranoid at all. Here are my observations:
> 
> 
> Your wife is behaving inappropriately and is blatantly disrespecting your feelings and wishes.
> 
> This POS Joe is a predator and seems to hang around community colleges to pick up easy tail.
> 
> Both of them have crossed many boundaries - too many for it to be "nothing" - hanging out alone together, middle of the night swims, her going out of the way to be with him, him inviting only her to overnight trips to Catalina Island, her accepting lunch from him etc.
> 
> She is, at the very least, having an EA with him but the chances are high that they have got physical - no guy will spend so much alone time with a woman without taking it physical (so prepare yourself for this).
> 
> When you uncover this she will rewrite marital history to justify her despicable behaviour and blame it all on you. She has already started this by complaining to him about your fighting with her.
> 
> When you uncover this she will also attempt to gaslight or even trickle truth you about what actually happened, so make sure you have indisputable evidence before you confront and NEVER reveal your sources of information (even if you reconcile).
> 
> You need to stop complaining or saying anything at all and go into stealth investigative mode to uncover what is going on.
> 
> 
> Get access to her phone and email and snoop on what is going on her communications with him (before she deletes them) - see if you can recover deleted messages and emails.
> 
> Plant a VAR in her car (as per Weightlifters excellent thread on evidence gathering) under her car seat with Velcro and this should tell you what she says to him when driving. Plant one in the house where she is likely to call him from when you are away. Put a PI on her tail (or you do it secretly) to catch her in the act.
> 
> Once you get the evidence secure it somewhere safe and make copies.
> 
> Consult an attorney to protect yourself.
> 
> Then expose the affair to friends and family and in particular, the POSOM's wife or gf - you will need to find all his details before you expose.
> 
> Then confront her and file for divorce simultaneously (do not tell her that you are filing).
> 
> Do the 180 to help yourself heal.
> 
> All of this will hopefully bring her affair to a grinding halt.
> 
> Then you have to decide what you want to do. You have to decide what your deal breakers are. If she is truly and actively remorseful, you may choose to reconcile but it will be a long difficult process with her needing to do all the heavylifting.
> 
> Or you may choose to divorce and go find someone else that won't do this to you.
> 
> If you do choose to reconcile, be careful that it is not a false reconciliation with her taking the affair underground. Be especially careful about her asking you to "just get over it".
> 
> I am truly sorry that you are here and others (including Weightlifter) will be along to ask more questions and give you advice. It would be useful to know how was your relationship and sex life with your wife leading up to this and then since she met this [email protected]?
> 
> Take care.


This is good advice about what to do. 
At this stage asking "for space" and "separation" only means that she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She'll use the time and space to pursue the OM and try out a relationship with him. You're her plan B. if she talks about separtion, tell her it's D or nothing.


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## honcho

It goes against what your heart is telling you but she must see there is something to lose here....you. She threatens filing as a ploy. You file and put actions behind words. 
Its your best shot at breaking her fantasy world of Mr perfect. You two haven't been married long. You should still be in honeymoon phase not dealing with this heartache.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frusdil

honcho said:


> It goes against what your heart is telling you but she must see there is something to lose here....you. She threatens filing as a ploy. You file and put actions behind words.
> Its your best shot at breaking her fantasy world of Mr perfect. You two haven't been married long. You should still be in honeymoon phase not dealing with this heartache.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This.

I'm so sorry you're in this situation, it must hurt so much. She and Joe are walking all over you. A married woman (or man) has NO business behaving this way. Why did she get married in the first place???

File for separation and kick her arse out of the house. She can go live with Joe.


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## SteveSD1

Yeah but what if I'm wrong guys? What if its just a platonic relationship. My wife had a rough childhood with no friends. She is not used to having friends that want to spend time with her. What if she is just latching on because she likes the attention?

Should I try an ultimatum? Stop seeing and talking to Joe or I'm filing for separation?


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## Gonecrazy

Hi Mate,
So sorry to hear about your situation. Sounds like there is no point doing any investigating. The actions and reactions tell it all. She runs off to this guy and I bet she is playing the whole "mean Husband" routine. 

You have not been married too long with out kids I assume so leaving shouldn't be too hard (emotions aside). She sounds selfish. This Mr Perfect sounds like a player. He will probably have his fun, then reject her and move onto another target, and who will your wife run to then, you! Wouldn't that make you feel great then?!

I would sought your assets, kick her out, and don't talk to her anymore. Her only conversation to you when you ask the hard questions is "divorce?" So give her her space, and play her game. Decent men don't deserve to have to 'chase' their wifes!

Good luck mate


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## frusdil

It doesn't matter if it's platonic or not (and it's not, btw). You are her husband, you are uncomfortable with the amount of time they are spending together. YOUR wishes should come first.

This Joe is a total deadbeat. Tell him to go get his own woman. Call wife's bluff. Tell her, no more Joe or you'll file for separation.


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## italianjob

SteveSD1 said:


> Yeah but what if I'm wrong guys? What if its just a platonic relationship. My wife had a rough childhood with no friends. She is not used to having friends that want to spend time with her. What if she is just latching on because she likes the attention?
> 
> Should I try an ultimatum? Stop seeing and talking to Joe or I'm filing for separation?


Steve, by the way, the motivations and the timelines you explained for their meetings the chance that this is platonic are maybe 1% (and if it is, that's gonna change with time anyway). If you want to rule out that 1% you might try and do some investigation.
Remember that a temporary separation might be what she wants to try out the OM, maybe only the prospect of divorce might be a wake up call, but it depends on how deep in the relationship she is now.


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## ConanHub

Get a divorce ready to file, separate your finances, do the 180.

You also need to figure yourself out. She is 99.999% certainly getting her tank filled at another mans pump.

Do you want to reconcile?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

SteveSD1 said:


> Yeah but what if I'm wrong guys? What if its just a platonic relationship. My wife had a rough childhood with no friends. She is not used to having friends that want to spend time with her. What if she is just latching on because she likes the attention?
> 
> Should I try an ultimatum? Stop seeing and talking to Joe or I'm filing for separation?


The first thing you should do is see a lawyer. Tell him/her about your situation and get advice and file for divorce. 

A guy does not go to all this trouble to sit around and watch tv with her. 

He most likely is having sex with your wife. And you're allowing it by letting her leave for hours on end to be with him. 

At this point there is no way you can stay married to her. She has and will never have respect for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Meli33

*Re: Re: Is my wife cheating on me? Problem with her guy friend.*



SteveSD1 said:


> She did come in after that text and we tried to have a conversation. Of course I wanted to talk to her about what she did with Joe all day but the second I brought it up she shut me down and said I was disrespecting her and she walked back down to the basement. But not before saying she will be filing for separation.
> 
> I really don't know what to do right now. How do I even try to get to the bottom of this when she doesnt want to talk about it?


Are you able to hire a private investigator? Or can you put a VAR in her car? If you do suspect she is having an affair, you need to start checking her social media inboxes, emails and text messages to start gathering evidence.

The fact that this is all happening very quickly and she now wants a seperation, I'm sorry but she is just making herself look very guilty. This relationship with Joe has definitely gone to a PA.


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## MachoMcCoy

Personally, I would consider my wife dating another guy cheating, but that's just me. Your boundaries may be different.


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## Troubled602

My thoughts are that she is deeply into an emotional affair with him. My instinct is that it hasn't been physical....yet. I'm sure he's leading it there. If it were already physical she would be hiding the fact that she spent time with him, lying that she was alone or with a female friend.

Her behavior definitely reeks of guilt. She knows that what is going on is wrong, but is probably justifying it to herself because she hasn't slept with him.

Their encounters sound like dates. She is going to him for emotional support. It is all inappropriate. Either she needs to cut him out of her life or you need to move on.


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## Nucking Futs

Troubled602 said:


> My thoughts are that she is deeply into an emotional affair with him. *My instinct is that it hasn't been physical....yet.* I'm sure he's leading it there. If it were already physical she would be hiding the fact that she spent time with him, lying that she was alone or with a female friend.
> 
> Her behavior definitely reeks of guilt. She knows that what is going on is wrong, but is probably justifying it to herself because she hasn't slept with him.
> 
> Their encounters sound like dates. She is going to him for emotional support. It is all inappropriate. Either she needs to cut him out of her life or you need to move on.


No chance in hell it hasn't been physical yet. 

Unless filing for separation is required where ever you live you should go ahead and file for divorce. Contact her family and let them know she's cheating on you, tell them who she's cheating with, and that you're divorcing her. Have her served publicly. Separate your finances, she gets nothing from you from now on.

Try to have all this hit as close to simultaneously as possible. In other words, don't tell her you filed, find out what day she's going to be served and pull the trigger on the finances that day and notify her family that day.

There's two possibilities here. One, it might shock her out of the fog. Or it might be exactly what she wants and she'll just go with it. If the former it gives you a chance to get her into counseling and maybe recover your marriage. If the latter it gives you a head start on what was coming anyway.

Don't tell your family about this unless you're sure there's no chance of reconciliation. If you do end up taking her back and they know it could cause problems.

ETA: You've only been married a year and a half and she's already dating another guy. I wouldn't try for reconciliation if I were you, she's not a keeper.


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## Hicks

It's not platonic. No way no how.
But even if it is, it's not appropriate.
Your only course of action is to offer her the choice between this relationship and her marriage, and then take action to walk away when she tells you anything other than "I want my marriage".


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## RV9

So many red flags, it's Russia. She's in a full blown affair. Withholding sex means definite PA. 1.5 years and an affair detected- OP is lucky. No children, no major financial tie up. He can move on. This is her first affair that he knows of, but certainly wouldn't be her last.


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## SteveSD1

Rohitvikash said:


> So many red flags, it's Russia. She's in a full blown affair. Withholding sex means definite PA. 1.5 years and an affair detected- OP is lucky. No children, no major financial tie up. He can move on. This is her first affair that he knows of, but certainly wouldn't be her last.


Yeah no kids and I am starting a nice new job on monday. I can support myself easily if I have too. We have separate bank accounts and last night I saw my wife took her stash of cash she keeps. She is lazy about going to the bank like that.

I am going to try to get her phone and do a Dr Fone recovery on it. She deletes her text messages.


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## RV9

SteveSD1 said:


> Yeah no kids and I am starting a nice new job on monday. I can support myself easily if I have too. We have separate bank accounts and last night I saw my wife took her stash of cash she keeps. She is lazy about going to the bank like that.
> 
> I am going to try to get her phone and do a Dr Fone recovery on it. She deletes her text messages.


Try recovering data from the camcorder SD card as well. I think it's possible.


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## lifeistooshort

Nothing wrong with going back to school. 
But this guy? Bullsheet. At best completely inappropriate and at worst she's already f!cling him. I'd tell her right now that if this guy means that much to her she can get him to support her, and suggest she not let the door hit her a$$ on the way out. You'd better deal with this right now, and having an argument only shows weakness. Don't play games with her, you know what's going on here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Steve,

Your story is so hard to stomach that one poster wondered if you were trolling us. I haven't seen anything that suggests that you are suffering from fictional male penis syndrom sneaking into your wife's vagina. Everything you write suggests that your wife is very into him, not for his sexual mojo but his sex ranking.

He has it. You don't and yours is falling.

Should you raise your status as an exercise of self preservation?

Why not?

1) Your wife is not worthy of "fighting" for. Nothing in her behavior hints at the existence of virtue or self respect. This not the person you want to have a family. How fortunate you have not begotten her with child.

You shall not want her or accept her. That self knowledge will raise your self esteem.

2) You should read up on the 180 and start doing it.

3) You should plan for divorce so that you divorce her rather than the other way round.

4) Get tested for STDs.


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## lenzi

LongWalk said:


> Your story is so hard to stomach that one poster wondered if you were trolling us..


Wrong.

There's a lot more than one. And they're not "wondering".

They just don't waste their time posting on such ridiculous threads.


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## SteveSD1

No not trolling  I've trusted my wife for years. We dated 4 years before getting married. I assume the best from people until they give me something to doubt that. And she is breaking my trust.

I should have read the signs when she decided to get a bed for her basement office.


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## sunvalley

SteveSD1 said:


> She met Joe, a 39 year old single divorced guy at her community college. She claims he has two bachelors degrees. Claims he was a dual service branch guy. Army ranger and then Navy. He has a house boat at a yacht club.


Riiiiiiiight - and I bet he does or did undercover work for MI6 and the CIA, too.  I'm willing to bet "Joe's" borrowing that houseboat from a "friend" -- or, claiming he owns it *without* the real owner's knowledge.



SteveSD1 said:


> Joe invited my wife on an overnight trip to Catalina island with friends on his boat. I didn't like the idea and told my wife I was not comfortable in her going overnight by herself with a guy she hardly knew. *She decided not too but then the same day complained that she wishes she could have gone.*


Right here, Steve, is all you need to know about your wife. A married woman complaining that she can't go on a cruise with a SINGLE guy?? That is beyond disrespectful. That is crapping AND piddling on your shoes, and forcing YOU to clean up HER mess.

I don't question that you love and care about your "wife." However, I seriously question HER motives in marrying you. Sounds like she wanted a security blanket and steady paycheck in her life, not a partner. 



SteveSD1 said:


> I communicated with her that It would be cool if we both could go on a trip with Joe and his friends. My wife said that Joe told her he would invite us both if an opportunity presented itself. *That invitation has not been made yet.....what a surprise.* ... In mid September *she went with him on an early morning hike and came home around noon.* ... *my wife left our house and drove to his house at 11:30 pm and stayed there until 230am. .... she said they went swimming with clothes on and watched the show "Archer" with him. She said that she needed to be around someone who did not want to cause conflict with her.* ... *she went to his house at 8am to "carpool" to the zoo for a class project. Our home is closer to the zoo than his house. So she went out of her way to "carpool" with him. .... She claims to have stayed at the zoo for hours observing animals. She told me she needed to film some of the animals so she took our camcorder. She never filmed anything. After the zoo she went back to his house to hang out and talk. He also bought her lunch. ... She got home at 530pm.* ... * ... she went to his house at 8am and got home at 7pm. They went paddle boarding and "hung out" all day at the beach. When she got home and I asked her about details about what they did she got very defensive and said I just wanted to start a fight. She told me that she even told Joe before she left his house that she didn't want to come home because I would "start a fight".* ... *They text back and forth until late at night every day and they are friends on facebook.*


From what you're describing, Steve, she's doing the horizontal tango with this guy every chance she gets. And it progressed VERY quickly from EA to PA.



SteveSD1 said:


> My wife claims that he is a very busy guy with alot of friends, two jobs and a busy school schedule....yet he seems to constantly have the time to meet with my wife and "hang out" with her the entire day. It seems very suspicious to me. *She will not let me meet him or invite me to hang out with the both of them. She claims that I am too jealous and would cause a problem. She said that she will let me meet him when she feels I'm ready.* She keeps on telling me that its ok for her to have "her friends" that she keeps to herself.


Excuse me? She is MARRIED to you. You have EVERY right to meet her friends and size them up ... and to insist that her affections be kept for you and you alone. If she has nothing to hide from you, why won't she let you meet this POS?

She's having an affair, Steve. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but she is (and I'm speaking from a woman's perspective).



SteveSD1 said:


> She does not have many friends in general. She has two girlfriends she has known for about a year and one other guy friend she talks to at school. I have no problem with my wife having friends. I'm also ok with her having guy friends....but her relationship with Joe is stressing me out and I have a bad feeling about it. *She seems to be infatuated with this guy. ... When I expressed my concerns about Joe she says that she knows how to set boundaries with her guy friends and that she would make sure they where in check when around her.*


She IS infatuated with him. Look over what you've written so far. Hanging out with this guy until the small hours of the morning .... talking about him all the time .... suspicious activities .... not letting you meet him. This is completely inappropriate behavior for a married woman, at best. And, ar worst, she's having an affair with him. This is a bunch of crap.



SteveSD1 said:


> I asked her how she would like it if I was constantly talking with and spending time with a single woman. My wife says that *I am just being insecure and controlling*.


Classic blameshifting -- to get the spotlight off HER actions.



SteveSD1 said:


> I know this guy wants to get with my wife. All the signs are there.


He already IS with your wife -- and I'm guessing both emotionally AND physically.



SteveSD1 said:


> I have tried to express to my wife many times that I wish she would spent less time with this guy and talk to him less. This has always led to a fight and my wife being defensive. *Its even gotten to the point that my wife has a bed in the basement that she sleeps in when she claims that I am being "too heavy" and that I "weigh her down" and that I am "always mad".* This is not true and I am one of the most laid back and positive guys I know. I have my own issues I need to work through and I do have a habit of shutting down and not communicating as much as my wife would like. But tons of people around me like me and I am very easy to get along with. *When we have fights and arguments my wife talks about separation and divorce very often.*


If it were me in this situation, I'd say, 'Okay. Pack your things; I'll hire you a truck. And you can go live with your great friend Jane. We're done.'

Steve, I don't care what kind of upbringing she had or what kind of childhood she had. This is NOT the way a married woman acts (or should act). And your gut feeling is correct. Your wife is having an affair with this POS; from what you've described, I'll bet my next paycheck it's already gone physical. You do *not* deserve to be treated this way, no matter what your issues are. 

She is doing the classic blameshifting ('well, YOU'RE the bad guy for even questioning me!') and gaslighting ('Nope, nothing to see here, dear. Everything's fine.'), to get herself off the hot seat. Plus, she's not even considering YOUR wishes and needs. That's not right. You are not paranoid, controlling, or mean -- you are her husband. She's broken ALL of her marriage vows at this point.

I normally do not advocate divorce right off the bat. However, your wife has experienced no consequences for violating your marriage boundaries. It's time she learns that a) you CANNOT be married and behave this way and b) if she chooses to run around town with other men, you will not remain married to her.

I'm sorry you're here, and I'm sorry you have to find out the hard way what kind of person your wife really is. But luckily, you're not that far in. Get rid of her, and find someone who will stick to her vows and cherish you as number-one.


----------



## Q tip

Well, so much for this marriage. He's her alpha and you're her loyal beta. Plan B while she cake walks all over you. 

He's following a simple working script. He instigated, isolated and escalated. She responded at each phase. It started innocently enough and the slippery slope steepened with each of his sweet innocent moves. 

Read Married Man Sex Life Primer. Several times. 

Can I guess you don't work out while he's a specimen? 

If you want for some reason to R, execute the 180 immediately, see a lawyer an have her served with D papers. 

Show her you got a pair. She'll either come running back to you or she's already chosen the POSOM. He'll likely break up with her as he doesn't need the drama. He's done this before. Many times. 


Then, your choice to dump her or keep her until it happens again. 

Get an STD test right away. Her too. 

Sorry you're here.

BTW, what's a 38 year old guy with BS degrees doing at that school? Bet you know why now. Easy pickins.


----------



## Q tip

You can't nice her back. She loses respect for you. She Sleeps elsewhere while you go beta on her. Read threads in CWI and wake up. Read MMSLP now.

She complains to him about you now. And whatever she tells him, he will claim to be the opposite and she deserves so much better. 

He worked in her slowly and broke her. Have a strategy and a plan or just D. Show her by living large, happy and better. They won't last. He'll kick her skank a$$ to the curb when it gets to hot. 

She'll regret her stupidity and you've shut her out of you're life and are dating younger sexier ladies who don't cheat.


----------



## sunvalley

Q tip said:


> ... He's her alpha and you're her loyal beta. Plan B while she cake walks all over you. ... He's following a simple working script. He instigated, isolated and escalated. She responded at each phase. It started innocently enough and the slippery slope steepened with each of his sweet innocent moves. ... *He'll likely break up with her as he doesn't need the drama. He's done this before. Many times.* ... BTW, what's a 38 year old guy with BS degrees doing at that school? Bet you know why now. Easy pickins.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## TRy

SteveSD1 said:


> Joe invited my wife on an overnight trip to Catalina island with friends on his boat. I didn't like the idea and told my wife I was not comfortable in her going overnight by herself with a guy she hardly knew. She decided not too but then the same day complained that she wishes she could have gone.





SteveSD1 said:


> In mid September she went with him on an early morning hike and came home around noon.





SteveSD1 said:


> After an argument with me in late September my wife left our house and drove to his house at 11:30 pm and stayed there until 230am. After she came home I asked her what they did together she said they went swimming with clothes on and watched the show "Archer" with him. She said that she needed to be around someone who did not want to cause conflict with her. Our argument was nothing major that I could remember.





SteveSD1 said:


> October 18th she went to his house at 8am to "carpool" to the zoo for a class project. Our home is closer to the zoo than his house. So she went out of her way to "carpool" with him. We have limited income at the moment with not alot of extra gas money. So going further makes no sense. My wife left our house in clothes she claimed where pajamas the previous night and said she changed to normal clothes at his house before the zoo.





SteveSD1 said:


> She said that he just offered to buy her lunch and she went with it. She got home at 530pm. She claimed they just hung out at his house after the zoo. My warning bells went off like crazy.





SteveSD1 said:


> Today (October 24th) she went to his house at 8am and got home at 7pm. They went paddle boarding and "hung out" all day at the beach. When she got home and I asked her about details about what they did she got very defensive and said I just wanted to start a fight. She told me that she even told Joe before she left his house that she didn't want to come home because I would "start a fight".





SteveSD1 said:


> They text back and forth until late at night every day and they are friends on facebook.


 If she was not married to you, she would be calling her relationship with the other man (OM) for what it really is. She would be telling people that she was dating the OM, because that is what they are doing.



SteveSD1 said:


> She will not let me meet him or invite me to hang out with the both of them.





SteveSD1 said:


> Its even gotten to the point that my wife has a bed in the basement that she sleeps in when she claims that I am being "too heavy" and that I "weigh her down" and that I am "always mad".





SteveSD1 said:


> When we have fights and arguments my wife talks about separation and divorce very often. I don't say things like that or make threats toward her like she does toward me.


 She is willing to divorce you for him because he is now the primary person in her life and you have become her backup plan. She picks fights to see him and does not sleep with you after she has been with him. You should have been the one threatening divorce if she did not stop dating this OM, but instead by being weak she has lost all respect for you. She cannot love someone that she does not respect. 

The odds are not good at this point as you have let it get too far already, but the best chance at saving your marriage is to be willing to end it if she does not end all contact with this OM. You must demand full 100% no contact with the OM, with full transparency without complaint that includes all passwords and full access to all phones and accounts. There can be no compromise of weakness in these demands. When she tells you that you are being controlling, remind her that when you took your wedding vows that you both agreed to controled by the normal terms of marriage, and that includes not dating others. If she wants to married to you she needs to stop dating this OM and start acting like a married person again. Every day that you wait to take a stand, the odds get worse for you as the OM gets deeper into her life. Truthfully it may be too late and she will pick the OM when forced to make a choice, but if that is who she is going to pick now, then your marriage was already over and you will just be finding out sooner rather than later. Again every day that you wait, your odds get worse. If it is over, at least go out with your head high worthy of respect.


----------



## TRy

SteveSD1 said:


> Here is a text message she sent me tonight after we had our argument where I tried to ask her what she was doing all day.
> 
> "I am turning off my phone for a few days. Please stay away from me until I can handle life again. Its not personal I just need my space. Life is too much right now."


 What she is doing all day is spending it with her boyfriend. She needs to turn the phone off for the next few days because she will be with him. She wants space from you but not her boyfriend as they continue to date.


----------



## Q tip

TRy said:


> What she is doing all day is spending it with her boyfriend. She needs to turn the phone off for the next few days because she will be with him. She wants space from you but not her boyfriend as they continue to date.



She is saying she wants you out of the way so she can focus all her sexual energy on. the POSOM. 

Is this for real?


----------



## TRy

The cheating is so obvious at this point, you need to ask a mod to move this to the Infertility section ASAP.


----------



## LongWalk

lenzi said:


> Wrong.
> 
> There's a lot more than one. And they're not "wondering".
> 
> They just don't waste their time posting on such ridiculous threads.


The truth will come out.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Why don't you find yourself a nice lady friend and plan a trip with her. See how that goes down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lenzi

LongWalk said:


> The truth will come out.


Not always. Look at this one from 2008.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/786-should-i-tell-my-girlfriend-my-wife-pregnant.html


----------



## SteveSD1

So I confronted my wife about the issue with Joe when I saw her this morning. Of course she denied the entire thing and got on my case about interrupting her and not letting her talk. I will admit that I was triggered when she started denying the whole thing.

She started moving out her clothes and stuff from the house while telling me the entire time how for months she has not been happy and how its all my fault.

I told her that she needs to sever all contact with Joe or I am filling for separation. She did not like this but said that she already told her mom she will stop talking to him. 

Funny she never told this to me. And then she claims she did. I do not recall any of it.

I also told her that if she has nothing to hide I need to see her phone and email. She said that she deletes all her texts. I told her that would not be a problem and I have a way to recover the deleted messages. 

After she heard that she wants nothing to do with me looking at her phone. I did a test and said I would go look at it myself. This caused her to run after me and start kicking me. She kicked me twice and tried to rip the mouse out of my laptop when I sat at my desk.

Then she acted like she would be willing to show me her email yet she claims she cant remember her password since she changed it recently. I told her I can wait while she goes and figures out what it is and that pissed her of. The result? Yep....no access to the email.

She told me that even if I got access to her phone and read the texts I would find things in there that are not appropriate when read out of context.

I'm sure. 

As we stand right now she has tried to put the blame entirely on me for our problems. She has not admitted to cheating directly without using sarcasm. I accused her of it and she said "Yeah I cheated on you, isnt that what you want to hear?". She keeps on claiming she has done nothing with him except having some conversations that have been inappropriate.


----------



## Time4Joy

Basic Truth: "You can't reason with insanity." Run, don't walk, to a lawyer. Protect yourself, your finances and your future. File for divorce as soon as possible. Assume she will be a grasping angry b!tch and try try to screw you.

Oh, and thank Mr. Army Ranger/Navy Guy with a house boat at the yacht club for getting her to this point now rather than after 10 years and two kids.


----------



## SteveSD1

Oh and she wants me to sign a paper regarding my VA benefits so she can get Obamacare. She had that paper for a week now and all of a sudden its a priority so she can get health insurance so she can get an inhaler. She has one right now with tons of puffs and she can get another one if she needs too. But all of a sudden its a major health issue.

I told her I would consider signing it when we have a long conversation about the topic of Joe. Of course she doesn't want too.


----------



## sidney2718

SteveSD1 said:


> Yeah but what if I'm wrong guys? What if its just a platonic relationship. My wife had a rough childhood with no friends. She is not used to having friends that want to spend time with her. What if she is just latching on because she likes the attention?
> 
> Should I try an ultimatum? Stop seeing and talking to Joe or I'm filing for separation?


You are not wrong. She's certainly having an emotional affair with the guy and is almost certainly having a physical one as well. The time she spends with the guy gives it away. She KNOWS it is improper which is why she keeps shutting you down.

My advice, worth what you spent on it, is that you tell her she stops seeing and talking to Joe NOW or your are filing for a divorce.

Her reaction to that will tell you what you need to know.


----------



## Q tip

Well, looks like you'll. cRoss that bridge when you get under it...


----------



## sidney2718

SteveSD1 said:


> So I confronted my wife about the issue with Joe when I saw her this morning. Of course she denied the entire thing and got on my case about interrupting her and not letting her talk. I will admit that I was triggered when she started denying the whole thing.
> 
> She started moving out her clothes and stuff from the house while telling me the entire time how for months she has not been happy and how its all my fault.
> 
> I told her that she needs to sever all contact with Joe or I am filling for separation. She did not like this but said that she already told her mom she will stop talking to him.
> 
> Funny she never told this to me. And then she claims she did. I do not recall any of it.
> 
> I also told her that if she has nothing to hide I need to see her phone and email. She said that she deletes all her texts. I told her that would not be a problem and I have a way to recover the deleted messages.
> 
> After she heard that she wants nothing to do with me looking at her phone. I did a test and said I would go look at it myself. This caused her to run after me and start kicking me. She kicked me twice and tried to rip the mouse out of my laptop when I sat at my desk.
> 
> Then she acted like she would be willing to show me her email yet she claims she cant remember her password since she changed it recently. I told her I can wait while she goes and figures out what it is and that pissed her of. The result? Yep....no access to the email.
> 
> She told me that even if I got access to her phone and read the texts I would find things in there that are not appropriate when read out of context.
> 
> I'm sure.
> 
> As we stand right now she has tried to put the blame entirely on me for our problems. She has not admitted to cheating directly without using sarcasm. I accused her of it and she said "Yeah I cheated on you, isnt that what you want to hear?". She keeps on claiming she has done nothing with him except having some conversations that have been inappropriate.


You can't be serious? You took that from her without even suggesting that she was lying to you? 

As for she having done nothing inappropriate, you know that's wrong. She's been spending too much time with the OM.

But none of this matters. Your response to being denied her cell phone should have been to tell her that you are seeing a lawyer on Monday and filing for divorce.

Then DO IT.


----------



## Thor

SteveSD1 said:


> Or are all of these signs pointing to my wife *emotionally* or physically *cheating*? Am I being controlling?


By definition your wife is emotionally cheating. She is putting her emotions out there with another person outside of the marriage. She is prioritizing her relationship with him over you and your marriage. 

That is cheating. By definition.

Go back and read the wedding vows carefully. There is much more in there than "I will not screw other people". She vowed to Love, Honor, and Cherish. The part about "forsaking all others" is much bigger than just not screwing other people, it is a promise to put you and the marriage above everyone else.

Is she physically cheating. I would bet money on it given her behavior, but your gut feeling is by far the best indicator. If you feel she is cheating, she _is_ cheating.

Are you being controlling? No. But, you can approach this better. You should be communicating your expectations and your boundaries. You expect your wife to prioritize your relationship above all other relationships (except with God if you two are religious people). So if either one of you is uneasy about someone else, that other person is dropped from the social circles. This is not controlling her behavior or who she is friends with, it is an expectation of the marriage relationship being the primary relationship for both of you.

As far as boundaries, you communicate them as "I will not remain in a relationship with a person who ......". Or it could be less severe, as in "I will not continue a conversation with you until you calm down and speak to me respectfully". So not all boundaries are nuclear which result in divorce.

But her dating another man should, in my opinion, be a divorce level boundary.


----------



## SadandAngry

I've only read a very little bit of the thread. That's all that's needed. Your marriage is done, she is not worth any effort at all. Completely separate your finances, pack her **** and tell her to go live with Joe (you might not be able to throw her out legally, check things out with a lawyer). Try for an annulment, and if it's too late, then file for divorce and don't look back. Thank your lucky stars you don't have kids with her.


----------



## SteveSD1

She let me have access to her Facebook and email accounts. Joe is her facebook friend but their chat conversation window is empty. She still wont let me access her phone.


----------



## Nucking Futs

SteveSD1 said:


> She let me have access to her Facebook and email accounts. Joe is her facebook friend but their chat conversation window is empty. She still wont let me access her phone.


Waste of time. Kick her to the curb.


----------



## LongWalk

SadandAngry said:


> I've only read a very little bit of the thread. That's all that's needed. Your marriage is done, *she is not worth any effort at all. * Completely separate your finances, pack her **** and tell her to go live with Joe (you might not be able to throw her out legally, check things out with a lawyer). Try for an annulment, and if it's too late, then file for divorce and don't look back. Thank your lucky stars you don't have kids with her.


----------



## SadandAngry

Let it go man, let it go. It's not you, it's her. Get clear, then get counselling to improve yourself. Learn appropriate boundaries, healthy self worth, relationship skills. Yours are lacking, and you can fix them, but not for a cheater, for yourself. You have next to nothing invested in this relationship, chalk it up as a learning experience, take the lessons, and carry on with your life. Don't hang on to misery.


----------



## honcho

SteveSD1 said:


> She let me have access to her Facebook and email accounts. Joe is her facebook friend but their chat conversation window is empty. She still wont let me access her phone.


She wont let you access the phone because you told her you could recover deleted text messages.


----------



## tom67

Oye vey!!

Nothing to see here - YouTube


----------



## 6301

SteveSD1 said:


> She let me have access to her Facebook and email accounts. Joe is her facebook friend but their chat conversation window is empty. She still wont let me access her phone.


 Look. everything she's doing points to no good and she knows it. There should be no inappropriate text between your wife and another man. If it was me, I would tell her to have her new boyfriend get her another puffer. Lord only knows what she's been puffing on with him.

Time for her to know that if she wants to dance to the music, she has to pay the piper.


----------



## RV9

OP, simple advice from those who have been through the grinder- run away from her like your ass is on fire. And yes, get tested for stds.


----------



## needrelief

Steve,

I'm so sorry you're going thru this. Understandably, you must be extremely frustrated and scared…

Seems like your wife is very defensive, and you're getting nowhere with her…

Try a different tactic.

Approach her in a caring and concerned manner.
Calmly, and with sincerity ask her, "Please help ease my mind".
Tell her the relationship with this other guy is making you crazy and SAD.
Tell her the only reason you're concerned is because you care so much for her.
Ask her for her help…
Be sincere and vulnerable.

If she responds to this with defensiveness and lack of empathy, you really need to re-evaluate how she feels about you, and what that says about your marriage.

The red flags are there.

The things she's doing with this guy, and the things she's doing to protect (shield) their relationship are cringe-worthy…

You can't go on like this...


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Tell her to meet you under a bridge where you can serve her divorce papers.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

Sorry Steve she is just using you as for shelter until he actually asks her to move in or she is dumped by him, tell her you know what is going on and tell her to go to him help her pack the bags and say farewell, alternatively she shes you everything you ask for, this is the only two options you have left


----------



## frusdil

SteveSD1 said:


> She let me have access to her Facebook and email accounts. Joe is her facebook friend but their chat conversation window is empty. She still wont let me access her phone.


That means nothing. It simply means that she deleted the messages in FB with Joe before she gave you access. Keep watching her messages on FB though, if he PM's her, the entire thread that she deleted will come back, lol. You may be able to catch her out that way.

People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. It's as simple as that.

No more vulnerability OP. Tell her your boundaries, and insist that she go to counselling IF she agrees to your boundaries.

If she doesn't, you HAVE to file for separation. It's the only way to show her you have a backbone.


----------



## leon1

It just means she is not using facebook to talk to the other guy , she is more than likely using an app on her phone , you need to get the phone .


----------



## earlyforties

earlyforties said:


> I stopped at 'wife gone back to school'.
> Yeah, nothing to worry about. You're being paranoid and controlling.


Ok, sarcasm aside. Maybe I should've just kept it to a simple 'yes'. 
Is it me or does TAM suddenly seem like it's former tame self without certain respected, straight to the point and knowledgeable vets?


----------



## murphy5

SteveSD1 said:


> My wife texted him that she was watching a show about "Horny badgers". awhile and didn't seem right to me. She seems to have him on her mind constantly.
> 
> My wife has never cheated on me in the past




yeah, what could possibly go wrong?

Badgers!......BADGERS!!!!!.....WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' BADGERS!


Do you really need us to tell you she is doing the horizontal limbo with this dude? 

No contact, open marriage, or a divorce seem to be your options. Your choice!


----------



## murphy5

btw for future reference:

Honey Badger don't care

but

Horney Badger DO care


----------



## SteveSD1

Yep all of your words make sense. I just talked with her again and she did not want to talk about the Joe situation until we talked about our problems these past few months. I kept on the pressure and she kept on defending herself.

I told her that I understand that there have been issues that we have been working through and I had my share in them. She was trying to blame shift the entire time. I repeatedly asked to see her phone and the entire time she was telling me no and saying that was her boundary.

One positive thing she said was that she has no problem stopping all contact with Joe. I told her that's good but I need to see her phone. She keeps on refusing.

She was in the shower earlier and I managed to sneak a peek at it and of course all text messages from Joe have been deleted. The message thread does not even exist anymore.


----------



## murphy5

just grab that phone and your laptop, hop in the car, go to starbux, and install some recovery software. Dont come home with it until you are satisfied all the nasty deleted texts have been recovered.

there is no downside here. She is pissed at you for asking for it, and treating you disrespectfully. How would it be any worse if you stole her phone for half a day?


----------



## italianjob

murphy5 said:


> just grab that phone and your laptop, hop in the car, go to starbux, and install some recovery software. Dont come home with it until you are satisfied all the nasty deleted texts have been recovered.
> 
> there is no downside here. She is pissed at you for asking for it, and treating you disrespectfully. How would it be any worse if you stole her phone for half a day?


 :iagree: No way she's going to tell you the truth just asking, you'll need to find a way to verify by yourself.
Well, adding two and two should give you all the answers you need, but if you really need explicit evidence to be sure...


----------



## 6301

SteveSD1 said:


> She was trying to blame shift the entire time. I repeatedly asked to see her phone and the entire time she was telling me no and saying that was her boundary.
> 
> She was in the shower earlier and I managed to sneak a peek at it and of course all text messages from Joe have been deleted. The message thread does not even exist anymore.


 Right now, your a dollar short and a day late. Her actions are completely wrong. This situation should have been stopped a long time ago. A married woman has no business spending her free time with another man and if the roles were reversed and you did it to her, I promise you, she would be doing the same thing your doing.

The only thing I can tell you is this. let her know that if there is any more contact with the OM, then she's going to find herself in a situation that he things are going to be sitting on the curb along with divorce papers. Let her no in a way that she sees that your as serious as a heart attack.

You also let her know that there are no secrets in a marriage and asking to look at her phone should not be a red flag because if she was honest, she would hand it to you without any guilt.

Make sure she understands that your not going to argue with her anymore and the next step will be the end.


----------



## Thor

We've all seen this kind of thing before, many times. This is pretty textbook.

Let's assume the most benign case, which is that she is in an EA with this guy. She is also seriously considering ending the marriage because this guy is so wonderful and probably a soul mate. But, she won't leave one safe relationship until the she secures this next relationship.

SteveSD1, are you willing to take her back as your wife given this? She has transferred her love and bonding to this other man. If that does not work out for her, are you willing to have her back?

Realize that she is not now the same person you married. She has crossed a significant line in the sand. Will you be happy to be married to someone who crossed this line?

Now let's move to the more likely scenario, which is that she has been having sex with posom. Same questions for you to ponder. Are you willing to take her back, and do you believe you can be happy with her knowing that she is capable of crossing that line of fidelity?

If I were you, I would take a hard stance with her. That is, I would file for divorce. This tells her in no uncertain terms that the old marriage is ended for you. Either the marriage will then also legally be terminated, or she will have to attempt to rescue the marriage.

Pu$$y footing around will not shock her out of the affair. If you are going to shock her out of it, do it. Exposure is a fine tool but it leaves open in her mind some chance that she can salvage the affair. She will think maybe she can just go dormant for a short while, or take it underground for a while. Then when you are sufficiently fooled, she can resume the affair full tilt.

Given your age and the totality of the situation, I would simply pull the plug on this marriage. You are plenty young enough to find a high quality woman and have a great marriage and family with her. If you attempt to R this marriage it will take years, and they will be very difficult years. You will never have your old marriage back.

Imagine you were to magically erase the past at this instant, never having met your wife. Tomorrow you meet her for the first time and learn she did these things to her husband. Would you consider her dating material? Would you consider her potential wife material? I wouldn't!

You two don't have any significant additional entanglements such as children or co-owned businesses. If it were me I'd simply call this marriage toast and be done with it.


----------



## Thor

If you want to save the marriage, stfu and do some real digging in the next day or two. Key logger, text recovery software, VAR in her car. Gather the data and then expose. But don't ever reveal your source of data. Make up a brief mis-direct. Tell her a PI or a coworker told you.

Require NC, with you approving the email before she sends it. You get full transparency, meaning you get all passwords to all things. She never deletes any messages, texts, emails, etc. You are the only one who is allowed to delete old messages from her accounts. Then file in order to put on pressure. And require MC.

If you don't want to save your marriage, STFU and talk to an attorney on Monday. Get your ducks in a row in order to get the best possible outcome for you. Generally imho that means not exposing her affair. You want her to be in la la land, thinking she is winning by getting to keep her posom. If you blow up the affair she may fight you a lot harder because she just lost everything. She lost her marriage and all the material support it gives her. She lost her respectability amongst her family, friends, and coworkers. She lost the love of her life, the posom. It is better for you not to expose the affair until after the divorce.


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## firebelly1

There is lots of good advice on TAM about how you should have conducted yourself thus far that is mostly about not confronting her but stealthily collecting evidence so she can't deny it. Now she is being careful with all her electronics because she knows you are on to her. 

Now that she knows that, the only thing to do is demand - not request, not ask, but give her an ultimatum - all the passwords and access to her electronics including her phone. If she isn't willing to let you have full access to it...you don't have a marriage.

Don't sign the healthcare paperwork. Make the condition that she give you full access to her phone and all the electronics. There's no point in having a discussion about Joe because she's just lying about it. Every discussion you have will make you feel frustrated and no further than you were before. If she doesn't give you full access to her phone, no healthcare paperwork. 

I think I am like you in that I would have a hard time creating these kinds of boundaries. But the advice you get here is from people who have been through it and know what they are talking about so even if it doesn't feel like your thing, do it.


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## Nucking Futs

SteveSD1 said:


> Oh and she wants me to sign a paper regarding my VA benefits so she can get Obamacare. She had that paper for a week now and all of a sudden its a priority so she can get health insurance so she can get an inhaler. She has one right now with tons of puffs and she can get another one if she needs too. But all of a sudden its a major health issue.
> 
> I told her I would consider signing it when we have a long conversation about the topic of Joe. Of course she doesn't want too.


The inhaler may be a screen, she wasn't worried about it before. If she comes up pregnant insist on a paternity test.


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## SadandAngry

What's your goal here Steve? To prove to yourself that you didn't make a mistake when you married your wife? Too late, it's done, you're not going to retroactively change her now.

No matter how you look at it she is making choices that show zero regard for you. ZERO. For her husband. After a year and a half. Is that what you signed up for when you made your vows? Does that sound like the kind of person you ought to dedicate yourself to, that you can build a solid, rewarding relationship over time with? Why commit to someone so obviously uncommitted to you?

Do not do it. Nothing but pain lies down that path.


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## the guy

Sorry your here.

You have been replaced.

Please stop all this nonsense.... you tried, she failed, now it's time to start the 180.

Your current action are weak and your wife is laughing her @ss while her a Jim are together. It time to stop and just let her go...the tougher it is on your wife the more complaining Jim has to listen to.

So start playing hard ball....Jim can get her the inhaler.....she is now Jims problem.


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## Rayloveshiswife

In order for the twined you to work this out she has to own up to what she did and admit the affair. She is not only not willing to do this, she insists that anything that happened is your fault. If she can't do that, this will never be put to rest. In your place unthinking would seriously be consittering seperation and possible dicorce. She has shown you who's he really is. Is that who you want to be married to?

While she said nothing happened, I think you got the true answer to what happened when you told her you could recover deleted texts and emails. 

Ray
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

You have made one *threat* and that doesn't count....only action will get your old lady to think twice in what she is giving up.

If you want her to second guess her choices then ...."JUST LET HER GO"!!!

It just might save your marriage.


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## the guy

Now is the time to let her know that it is *you* that needs space.

Be warned, she will think your cheating....

I hope you understand why she would think this?

It's call projecting, she did the same thing when she used the word "space" and you know what "space" = cheating.......

All the other word you use in way you want space won't mean sh*t cuz thats her word and now you are using it against her and she knows dam well what that word means.

The point here is not some game it's a tactic that *shows* her you can let her go.

Plus cheaters hate it when they are getting cheated on...it's a power thing....and you old lady thinks she has all the power.


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## sunvalley

Nucking Futs said:


> *The inhaler may be a screen, she wasn't worried about it before. If she comes up pregnant insist on a paternity test.*


This is *exactly* what I was thinking .... she didn't care about the healthcare before, and it's suddenly an _urgent_ option? Yeah, right. One can buy inhalers for less than 40 dollars each.

SteveSD1, I agree with all the other posters here -- divorce this woman and get on with your life. And I'm coming from a woman's perspective. She has replaced you, in both her mind and affections, with this POSOM; her reaction when you attempted to get her phone and Facebook passwords should have told you all. Chasing after you and kicking you?!?!? Uh, no. She KNOWS what she's doing is wrong, and her reaction tells you she's hiding something.

Talk is cheap; ACTIONS are what count. Your wife has been acting like a single woman during this entire sorry episode, and that's wrong. It's true you cannot control her choices or behavior. However, you *can* choose not to live with her choices and behavior. Get her junk packed, pay for a moving truck, and ship her over to "Joe's." If he's so wonderful, HE can pay for her and her lifestyle -- before he dumps her for the next woman, that is.


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## alphaomega

Steve

Why are you fighting so hard on this one. The disrespect she shows you would already send guys packing. 

Stop putting her on a pedestal. Stop letting her be a princess. 

You ever hear of gas lighting? Blame shifting? Your world is full of it right now. 

My ex pulled this shat too. And yes, blamed me for everything. It's standard cheater script. I even got this response when I saw what kind of shat she was texting. 

"See. I knew you didn't trust me. That's why I cheated. To prove you didn't trust me"

If you can figure out that logic bomb, I'll gladly buy you a beer

People are not telling you to file for divorce because it's what people say here. They are telling you to file because she thinks she has you wrapped around her finger. Filing is a slap in the head to her, to make her realize this shat isn't a game you can just play with peoples emotions. 

And, in the end. If divorce goes through, maybe that just puts you in a better place.


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## GusPolinski

Try using Wondershare's Dr. Fone app to restore deleted texts from the phone. They have apps for both Android and iOS devices.


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## Angelou

She is being INAPPROPRIATE. And NOT listening to you. It's one thing to be your own individual in a marriage but it's another thing to dismiss your spouse's feelings and "choose" this other man. Why do men and women fall for this? Some attention and they run with it. What a shame. Since you already confront her and you still have suspicions then next is snoop. She brought this upon herself. Spending that much amount of time with him is weird.


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## Hicks

Listen to the advice you are being given.
Having these conversations with her is counterproductive.


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## weightlifter

Too late. He blew the evidence gathering and the confront. She likely deleted everything and the window for date recovery is quickly approaching.

One male and one female going together somewhere is called a date. When it is not your spouse that is a bad thing.

Who is going to promote me from Captain obvious to Major Obvious?

Game over. File for divorce. In the exceedingly unlikely event there was no sex, her sense of boundaries is so far beyond reasonable.


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## Q tip

Sounds like a bridge under troubled waters...

Spidey senses ringing in my ears...


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## sunvalley

weightlifter said:


> Who is going to promote me from Captain obvious to Major Obvious?


I hereby confer upon you the five stars of *General* Obvious. Now go forth, and conquer stupidity and ignorance.

:smnotworthy:


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## Nucking Futs

sunvalley said:


> I hereby confer upon you the five stars of *General* Obvious. Now go forth, and conquer stupidity and ignorance.
> 
> :smnotworthy:


Technically, 5 stars would be General _of the_ Obvious.


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## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> Technically, 5 stars would be General _of the_ Obvious.



I served under General Nuisance.

Or was it General Apathy.


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## weightlifter

sunvalley said:


> I hereby confer upon you the five stars of *General* Obvious. Now go forth, and conquer stupidity and ignorance.
> 
> :smnotworthy:


Id rather conquer each and every predatory player.


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## Jellybeans

Be done. 

She has done nothing at all to indicate she wants to be honest with you.

It's clear to anyone reading this that your wife is cheating on you with Joe and has been for awhile now.

Everything she has done is textbook affair. The denying, deflecting, getting angry, deleting text messages, sex dwindling, blaming you, lying, getting angry with you and telling you she is leaving.

Oh and PLEASE do not offer her your health insurance when she wants to fly the coup and not even be honest with you enough to say she is sleeping with Joe.


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## murphy5

you could trade! X many BJs a month for health insurance? Call it "the Obama Plan"


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## nanofaan

it seems she is like cheating on you. she is not expecting a relationship from Joe thats why she is keeping you.


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## nanofaan

but i never seen people swim with their clothes on


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## ArmyofJuan

SteveSD1 said:


> Yep all of your words make sense. I just talked with her again and she did not want to talk about the Joe situation until we talked about our problems these past few months. I kept on the pressure and she kept on defending herself.
> 
> I told her that I understand that there have been issues that we have been working through and I had my share in them. She was trying to blame shift the entire time. I repeatedly asked to see her phone and the entire time she was telling me no and saying that was her boundary.
> 
> One positive thing she said was that she has no problem stopping all contact with Joe. I told her that's good but I need to see her phone. She keeps on refusing.
> 
> She was in the shower earlier and I managed to sneak a peek at it and of course all text messages from Joe have been deleted. The message thread does not even exist anymore.


You need to move this to CWI because she is cheating no doubt.

Her relationship with him has been inappropriate since day one, when he invited her on the boat trip that should had been a wake up call, he should NEVER has asked a married woman to spend the weekend with him ans she should had NEVER entertained the idea.

First thing you need to do is file out a Petition for a Divorce, let her know you take this seriously. You've been in denial for far too long.


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## Thor

tom67 said:


> I served under General Nuisance.
> 
> Or was it General Apathy.


I've been under General Anesthesia.


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## Q tip

murphy5 said:


> you could trade! X many BJs a month for health insurance? Call it "the Obama Plan"


With a Clinton rider...


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## Q tip

Thor said:


> I've been under General Anesthesia.


I tried to get on a lift under Major Repair.. It was out and needed Private Parts.



...oh my head.


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## PhillyGuy13

When a man and woman wed, they vow to support each other, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health. They vow to foresake all others. Until death do they part.

There are marriages that are worth fighting for, should problems arise, including cases of blatant, disrepsectful infidelity.

This is not one of those marriages. File for divorce immediately. No need for further evidence gathering. You married a woman with thr mentality of a teenager. You are not compatible with her. She is a spoiled, petulant child. Life is hard enough without having to deal with this type of bull---t.

Good luck to you.


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## manfromlamancha

Hi Steve,

Hope you are OK. All of your communications with her so far indicate huge red flags! She is in the process of rewriting your marital history so as to blameshift etc.

Any updates so far ? She might have taken this underground now!

Deleting all her messages to and from Joe is the biggest red flag so far.

Take care.


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## wmn1

SteveSD1 said:


> manfromlamancha,
> 
> Our relationship and sex life has dwindled in the past few months. There has been a constant stream of arguments between us lately. I am the kind of guy that needs connection to be intimate and lately my wife has been very critical of me and not very relational. Whenever I try to express how I feel she tends to run over my emotions and does not let me express myself without criticism.
> 
> Over the past 2 weeks we have had sex twice. And both times it was passionless.
> 
> Here is a text message she sent me tonight after we had our argument where I tried to ask her what she was doing all day.
> 
> "I am turning off my phone for a few days. Please stay away from me until I can handle life again. Its not personal I just need my space. Life is too much right now."
> 
> In a previous text she also says that she has been falling apart emotionally for a month now.
> 
> Personally I think she feels guilty.



all cheater lines. Space ? stay away from me ?? Disappearing for periods of time ???

She is acting like she's 16 and IMO is cheating. Take the advice from man... it's very good advice. And also think about what you are going to do if you find out she is in an affair. It's horrible enough to find out, it also stinks to be paralyzed once you do ...


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## MiamiVice

Hi Joe, I know it's very hard. But the best thing is to let her go. Fighting won't change things. Obviously she is having an affair, and it's up to you to accept and let it go or move on. I think she is also deciding whats best fir her. You both are young. **** happens by mistake. The pain you feel it will go away with time. But there's always someone special out there wanting you badly.
Have a great day.


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