# Opposite Sex Friends



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm curious to hear everyone's viewpoint on opposite sex friends.

I'm of the opinion that they are fine, but once people are partnered good boundaries needs to be in place and ideally you become a friend of the couple. Case in point: my ex had a female friend at his old job that knew it was a good idea to become a couple friend, so she pursued a friendship with me. We became really good friends and are still good friends to this day; when my ex lost his job she called ME to ask how he was and I put him on the phone. She had respect and good boundaries so it never occurred to me to care. IMO it's just poor boundaries and rude to exclusively contact that opposite sex friend an to continue to pursue a friendship with them while basically excluding the spouse.

I used to have a very good male friend who got married. I made an effort to befriend his wife, and she seemed ok with me. But one day he passed through my city and stopped by my job for lunch, and during our lunch she called him and he lied about where he was. I distanced myself from him after that because I had no wish to cause trouble in his marriage, and I feel like people who aren't trash will distance themselves if they sense their presence is causing problems.

Another male friend that I know from running has a somewhat jealous gf, and I know for a fact she grilled him about who I am. He and I don't hang out, we only see each other during track workouts here and there with a lot of other people and we do text on occasion regarding races, but he has spoken of me. I finally met her and spent a of time just chatting with her and trying to make her feel comfortable, and he later told me that I don't come up anymore. She felt comfortable because I expressed an interest in including her.

Another close female friend of mine is single...she was married and divorced briefly out of high school. She's had many male friends over the years (female too) and has lamented that as they partner up and get married they distance themselves. She truly doesn't understand because she's not interested in them romantically, but I've explained to her that once these men get married they aren't going to dinner with her anymore because it's not appropriate. I told her she needs to make friends with the wife. Because of my involvement in athletics I know a lot of men and I take every opportunity to chat with the wives/girlfriends because I want them to feel comfortable with me, and I've had a tremendous success rate with this. Women can sense other women this way....we have each others numbers.

So what does everyone think? I'd be interested to hear from all viewpoints on this one.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My partner reserves the right for me to drop any one of them at her request and vice versa. 

Havent had any problems with this rule, still sticking to it to this day.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

My wife and I have both had opposite sex friends throughout the course of our marriage. In that area we have a very strong trust in one another. Neither partner has ever cheated and neither of us has concerns that the other would. We have both had occasions where we have been out to eat alone with an opposite sex friend. It is not a common occurrence, but also not one that concerns either of us. For my wife she has said that as long as she knows the other friend has a connection or friendship with her as well it is not a problem.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

I have OS friends and never thought about it until I started coming to this site. My spouse and I trust each other and I won't cheat on her. Sorry if that's boring.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

GutShot7 said:


> My wife and I have both had opposite sex friends throughout the course of our marriage. In that area we have a very strong trust in one another. Neither partner has ever cheated and neither of us has concerns that the other would. We have both had occasions where we have been out to eat alone with an opposite sex friend. It is not a common occurrence, but also not one that concerns either of us. For my wife she has said that as long as she knows the other friend has a connection or friendship with her as well it is not a problem.


That's consistent with my position on osf's as couple friends.

You don't have to be best buddies with the spouse but you should attempt some kind of connection/friendship, otherwise you have boundary problems


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SpinyNorman said:


> I have OS friends and never thought about it until I started coming to this site. My spouse and I trust each other and I won't cheat on her. Sorry if that's boring.


Not boring.

I asked for all viewpoints 

Do these friends engage your wife at all or do they communicate exclusively with you?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> Not boring.
> 
> I asked for all viewpoints
> 
> Do these friends engage your wife at all or do they communicate exclusively with you?


Mostly they know my W and see her some times. One lives 14 time zones away, has never met her and our relationship is email only at this point. But I'm sure she would be down w/ meeting her if we ever see each other again.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

I can have opposite sex acquaintances, but not friends to hang out with...for my husband it's the same. He seems to think guys only hang out with women b/c they want to sleep with them...so if a guy is hanging around me, or he's hanging around another girl, that's the reason in his mind.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I guess my situation when young was somewhat similar to the OP's. She knew them because of her involvement in athletics, obviously a common interest and activities, and I knew mine through music. I too knew some of the wives or girlfriends, and I even traveled some with all of them to gigs, but I have to say they were always trying to push me off on the single one, like they felt I needed to be paired up and would have felt better if I had been. A lot of us just knew each other through an extended music crowd, seeing each other at gigs, male or female, and it was pretty cool overall. 

I had this "sort of" boyfriend (years later, found out he had ED so that's why he was always hanging around and not having sex but always getting jealous), and he disappeared periodically and one was longer than usual. Found out he was hanging out and mooching off this chef I only knew tangentially but a friend of mine knew a bit better, so I just went to where she was working (a small bar/cafe) and we sat down and had a nice revealing talk and both learned a lot. No animosity or anything, just a fact-finding mission for both of us.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

If you ask my DW, she would say there is no way in the world a person should have a close friendship with someone of the opposite sex when they are married or dating someone else.

I have seen these situations in the workplace during my career. Far too many became sexual at some point. This one couple did everything together, even with their spouses knowledge. From breaks to lunch hours, even going shopping together after work.

Both of these people swore up and down that they were NOT ATTRACTED to one another, they were just friends. Well, several years later, the 1 hour lunches turned into 3 hour lunches with motel rooms involved. lol.

So, I'm not too sure one way or the other.


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## Imagirl (Aug 17, 2020)

Friendliness with the opposite sex is fine and expected. Ex's should stay in the past and out of your life out of respect for your current. Non-ex Friends are fine as long as you have firm boundaries. That said, if there is an opposite sex friendship and I am excluded in some way I'd have questions. And a with everything communication is key. Be open, be honest, communicate, communicate, communicate


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## Imagirl (Aug 17, 2020)

I should have also said friends are fine as long as it in no way infringes on his relationship with me or mine with him. If I had a friend and my man started to feel uncomfortable I would have no problem doing what needs to be done to protect my relationship. My man comes first. Period.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I also feel like it's the responsibility of the non partner osf to make the spouse feel comfortable.

So I take it upon myself to reach out to the women in my male friends lives because I want them to know I respect their partnership and have no questionable intentions.

I remember another time I used to meet two male coworkers over lunch to run. We would meet, run, and go our separate ways.

One had a very jealous wife.....so much so that he'd come home to his clothes in the yard a couple of times. I asked him if she knew he ran with me and he said he'd told her right away because God forbid she had to find out on her own.

Well one day I met her at a 5k. She eyed me and said "so you run with Bob (not his real name)?".

I responded with "not really...i just show up at the same time and watch him get farther and farther away (he was really fast).

She laughed and said something about how much he talked....which he does.

Next time we ran he said oh my wife is fine with you.

A decent effort to interact with the spouse will usually go a long way.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Personally, in this day and age, I don't believe in opposite sex friends once you're married, and this example is a problem for me.

This man knew that female friends made his wife super uncomfortable, yet he kept them anyway.

So, he was getting something out of it.

Being friends with you, and whoever else, was more important than his relationship with his wife.

And he even got off on discussing her reactions with you - she throws clothes out into the yard; yes, I told her, cause God forbid.

So, you were the confidant, the other woman that he *****ed about his wife to.

To me, that's inappropriate, and if he needs to vent about his marriage, then perhaps he should see a therapist.



lifeistooshort said:


> One had a very jealous wife.....so much so that he'd come home to his clothes in the yard a couple of times. I asked him if she knew he ran with me and he said he'd told her right away because God forbid she had to find out on her own.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> Personally, in this day and age, I don't believe in opposite sex friends once you're married, and this example is a problem for me.
> 
> This man knew that female friends made his wife super uncomfortable, yet he did it anyway.
> 
> ...


What is wrong with venting about your relationship with friends. Isn't that part of what friends are for? So you can vent to them about your issues in life without judgement and get some feedback.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Because we're talking about opposite sex friends, and this is how affairs begin.



GutShot7 said:


> What is wrong with venting about your relationship with friends. Isn't that part of what friends are for? So you can vent to them about your issues in life without judgement and get some feedback.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

GutShot7 said:


> What is wrong with venting about your relationship with friends. Isn't that part of what friends are for? So you can vent to them about your issues in life without judgement and get some feedback.


There is nothing wrong with venting to friends (within reason)... as long as they are the same sex as you. Venting to an opposite sex friend is a slippery slope.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> Because we're talking about opposite sex friends, and this is how affairs begin.





bobert said:


> There is nothing wrong with venting to friends (within reason)... as long as they are the same sex as you. Venting to an opposite sex friend is a slippery slope.


Or a relationship has trust that cheating isn't going to happen and they are just friends. An opposite sex friend can often give a different perspective than a same sex friend to help with advice after the venting.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

To me, even bringing up this topic is just a way to rationalize away temptation.



GutShot7 said:


> Or a relationship has trust that cheating isn't going to happen and they are just friends. An opposite sex friend can often give a different perspective than a same sex friend to help with advice after the venting.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> To me, even bringing up this topic is just a way to rationalize away temptation.


bringing up what topic?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Opposite sex friendships after marriage.



GutShot7 said:


> bringing up what topic?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

GutShot7 said:


> Or a relationship has trust that cheating isn't going to happen and they are just friends. An opposite sex friend can often give a different perspective than a same sex friend to help with advice after the venting.


I agree that the advice from the opposite sex is valuable. Even though it's valuable, it is also risky. Ignoring that fact is asking for trouble. 

I have had great advice here from the opposite sex. View points that I'd never see myself or get from men, etc. I have talked to female friends about my situation, with guys present. IMO, that's fine because it's a group thing not me talking 1:1 with a woman.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> Opposite sex friendships after marriage.


So you are completely against having friends of the opposite sex during marriage. Ok then.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> I agree that the advice from the opposite sex is valuable. Even though it's valuable, it is also risky. Ignoring that fact is asking for trouble.
> 
> I have had great advice here from the opposite sex. View points that I'd never see myself or get from men, etc. I have talked to female friends about my situation, with guys present. IMO, that's fine because it's a group thing not me talking 1:1 with a woman.


Life is risky. 
I am also a very trusting person. If trouble happens, then it happens, deal with it when it comes.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

And my question for you would be - why? 

Why are female friends so important to you? Why do you feel entitled to maintain relationships with other women after marriage? What does it do for you?



GutShot7 said:


> So you are completely against having friends of the opposite sex during marriage. Ok then.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

But you don't deal with it. The majority of your posts are about you not dealing with 'it'.



GutShot7 said:


> If trouble happens, then it happens, deal with it when it comes.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> And my question for you would be - why?
> 
> Why are female friends so important to you? Why do you feel entitled to maintain relationships with other women after marriage? What does it do for you?


It is not that they are that important, but if they happen naturally I have nothing against them. They are just friendships, no reason not to have them if there is trust in the relationship. And as I have mentioned, people of the opposite sex can often provide insight that is helpful to situations in your relationship. 



minimalME said:


> But you don't deal with it. The majority of your posts about you not dealing with 'it'.


I've never had an issue of cheating in my relationship either way. So its never provided an opportunity to deal or not deal with it.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

No, not cheating, but just about everything else. Sex, anger, household chores, life isn't fun, etc.

My point being, you said, when trouble comes, that's when you deal with it. But up until now, you haven't been dealing with it.

/end highjack



GutShot7 said:


> I've never had an issue of cheating in my relationship either way. So its never provided an opportunity to deal or not deal with it.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> No, not cheating, but just about everything else. Sex, anger, household chores, life isn't fun, etc.
> 
> My point being, you said, when trouble comes, that's when you deal with it. But up until now, you haven't been dealing with it.
> 
> /end highjack


I get what you are saying, but if she did something like that it would be a different emotional situation. Also, I would bet my life on the fact that she wouldn't cheat. I know a lot of people say that, but she couldn't live with herself if she did that. So, I'm not really worried about it.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

GutShot7 said:


> I would bet my life on the fact that she wouldn't cheat. I know a lot of people say that, but she couldn't live with herself if she did that.


Funny, I also said that my wife would never, ever cheat. I 100% believed that she would never be able to do that because of some extenuating circumstances. Wanna take a guess at what happened? 

You can never be 100% sure of anyone's actions. People aren't even 100% sure of their own actions! So it's kind of silly to trust someone else more than yourself, no?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

This is nonsense. You don't keep female friends because you appreciate their insight into your marriage.

To me, it's a form of 'cake eating' - I want to be married, but I still want attention from the opposite sex.

We live in a time with seemingly limitless information. 

You want a female perspective? Read a book written by a woman. Watch a video from a female relationship expect. 

If you genuinely want a female point of view to a specific problem, I can almost guarantee you can find it without the help of a female friend.



GutShot7 said:


> And as I have mentioned, people of the opposite sex can often provide insight that is helpful to situations in your relationship.


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> This is nonsense. You don't keep female friends because you appreciate their insight into your marriage.
> 
> To me, it's a form of 'cake eating' - I want to be married, but I still want attention from the opposite sex.
> 
> ...


That isn't the reason you keep the friend, its just ONE benefit. The reason you have the friend is because they are a friend, their sex is not impacted by that. Friends happen for a variety of reasons.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

@lifeistooshort I have exactly the same view as you on this.

OSF are fine, but they do have different boundaries to a SSF, and the reasons for that should be obvious to anyone with a brain.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

I have other sex friends and generally I am pretty slack at keeping in touch with some of them. That said on rare occasion I keep in touch and catch up in person.

Including one female friend who over the years from time to time, I sometimes spend an evening with her weekly doing an activity then we will share a drink in a pub or a meal and then I will drop her off at her place and shock horror even come into her place after.

Funnily enough the one who I share an activity with, we have always done some things together ever since we first met in 1992. Plus when my wife and I started dating a few times we double dated on occasion together. Even today my wife still sometimes reminds me to catch up with her as well.

That said I am still friends with two women that I have been in a sexual relationship with in the past (and my wife knows this), one of whom is now overseas and divorced and another who is now in another state and married to an awesome guy.

Yet in all the time I have had women friends, I have never cheated on any sexual partner I have been with ever. Even in the face of some extremely explicit offers from a few of them in the past, of which whenever I have been propositioned and was not freely available, I have always chosen to stop catching up with those ones after that.

As to my wife she has some male friends as well, some of whom she has occasionally caught up with for lunch while at work over the years. While on facebook she is even in touch with an ex boyfriend who she dumped years ago for being too needy.

The thing is if my wife is going to cheat on me, she will do exactly that whether I hold on tight or otherwise. Likewise if I am going to cheat on my wife, I will do exactly that whether she holds on tight or otherwise. So we both simply continue to trust each other until we have a reason not to.

Incidentally on the occasions when I have had offers I have told my wife about it, just as she has told me as well. In fact on one occasion my wife asked me to come to after work drinks specifically to meet a man who was sniffing around her a few years ago.

Plus there was this other older man who she started talking to on the phone and via text through a shared DNA connection. Who started crossing lines and being a bit creepy and suggestive, so she asked me to read his texts to see if she was right in where she thought he was trying to go. So as a consequence of that and my agreeing he wanted more than just friendship she stopped communicating with him completely.

So as it stands my wife and I are fine with each other having other sex friends, that said we both have no problem making it clear when we think something might be wrong.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

minimalME said:


> Why are female friends so important to you? Why do you feel entitled to maintain relationships with other women after marriage? What does it do for you?


For myself, my friends are my friends regardless of their gender.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

I doubt the slippery slopers and I will ever understand each other, but I don't see any reason to get angry at each other since we aren't married to each other.

Friends are important to me, and some of them happen to be female. This seems very natural to me. I've trampled most of the boundaries I've read here. I've found myself in situations where I said "This sounds suspicious even to me", and you know what happened? Nothing.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Another close female friend of mine is single...she was married and divorced briefly out of high school. She's had many male friends over the years (female too) and has lamented that as they partner up and get married they distance themselves. She truly doesn't understand because she's not interested in them romantically, but I've explained to her that once these men get married they aren't going to dinner with her anymore because it's not appropriate. I told her she needs to make friends with the wife.


The woman who I infrequently sometimes still catch up with for dinner or drinks (which usually means non-alcoholic since I'm driving), is now friends with my wife as well and has been for many years now.

When my wife first met her, she wondered if there was something sexual between us, yet after a while she decide we really were just platonic friends.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

minimalME said:


> No, not cheating, but just about everything else. Sex, anger, household chores, life isn't fun, etc.
> 
> My point being, you said, when trouble comes, that's when you deal with it. But up until now, you haven't been dealing with it.
> 
> /end highjack


I think it's better to be proactive. People who disregards other people's boundaries are looking for drama.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Would you explain?

I don't understand what your comment has to do with my post?



NextTimeAround said:


> I think it's better to be proactive. People who disregards other people's boundaries are looking for drama.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm curious to hear everyone's viewpoint on opposite sex friends.
> 
> I'm of the opinion that they are fine, but once people are partnered good boundaries needs to be in place and ideally you become a friend of the couple. Case in point: my ex had a female friend at his old job that knew it was a good idea to become a couple friend, so she pursued a friendship with me. We became really good friends and are still good friends to this day; when my ex lost his job she called ME to ask how he was and I put him on the phone. She had respect and good boundaries so it never occurred to me to care. IMO it's just poor boundaries and rude to exclusively contact that opposite sex friend an to continue to pursue a friendship with them while basically excluding the spouse.
> 
> ...


Mmm, it hasn't really come up in our marriage because neither of us really try to hang out or spend time with the opposite sex. Most of my friends are men and hers are women. She hangs out with her sisters a lot. Most of our opposite sex friends are the spouses of our friends but we don't hang out alone....me with a lady friend or my wife with one of my guy friends.

Theoretically I'm ok with it, to a point. It depends on how close it is. Lots of private messages, texting, going out on friend "dates" out to eat or to the movies, going and traveling alone together etc. I'd veto all of that stuff. You used the word "inappropriate" and that is what those things would be to me. 

You mentioned your friend doesn't have romantic interest in her male friends or something like that. As a spouse, that really isn't the only deciding factor. There are some things that are just too close. Too much time, too much closeness, too much attention, too much intimate sharing are all examples. Whether someone feels attraction or does not feel it doesn't mean they spend too much time or do certain things together that I claim for me as the spouse. 

It all just depends.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

minimalME said:


> Would you explain?
> 
> I don't understand what your comment has to do with my post?


It's better to have some idea of what you will and will not accept so that if one of your boundaries is trampled on, then you can react decisively.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> You mentioned your friend doesn't have romantic interest in her male friends or something like that. As a spouse, that really isn't the only deciding factor. There are some things that are just too close. Too much time, too much closeness, too much attention, too much intimate sharing are all examples. Whether someone feels attraction or does not feel it doesn't mean they spend too much time or do certain things together that I claim for me as the spouse.


Definitely agree with that. I don't want to be around women who act like they know my husband better than I do. 

What brought me to this message board was inappropriate friendship that my (future, at that time) husband was having with a woman he tried to date but it didn't work out.
She was telling him how to conduct our relationship. Asking him if I slept over after dates and then telling him since we weren't having sex, then I must not be that much into him. And more......

I don't need that kind of aggression in my life.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> I have OS friends and never thought about it until I started coming to this site. My spouse and I trust each other and I won't cheat on her. Sorry if that's boring.


Good for you guys. 
Good you feel you'd never cheat. 
I would say that you may have oversimplified things a bit too much in the regard of....as long as I don't actually cheat then I'm pretty much free to do whatever I want with the opposite sex.
Sometimes things could end up bothering a spouse if you get too close, spend too much time, share too much of your heart, or whatever they may not appreciate. 
I'd just like to point out that in discussions like this it is sometimes a little too dismissive to immediately default to the....did sexual intercourse actually occur? Ok then, it didn't so all if 100% fine, spouse has no cause to feel anything off putting about me and my besty.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

hinterdir said:


> Good for you guys.
> Good you feel you'd never cheat.


There are lots of things I feel I'd never do, like strangle my aged aunt or molest my niece's kid or poison my neighbor's dog.


> I would say that you may have oversimplified things a bit too much in the regard of....as long as I don't actually cheat then I'm pretty much free to do whatever I want with the opposite sex.


 There are things I don't want to do, but there are a lot of other things/situations I am comfortable with that are frequently proscribed on this site.


> Sometimes things could end up bothering a spouse if you get too close, spend too much time, share too much of your heart, or whatever they may not appreciate.


Thank you for your concern, but it hasn't presented any problems yet.


> I'd just like to point out that in discussions like this it is sometimes a little too dismissive to immediately default to the....did sexual intercourse actually occur? Ok then, it didn't so all if 100% fine, spouse has no cause to feel anything off putting about me and my besty.


I didn't say that, and my spouse is ok w/ my behavior.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

My husband has female friends/acquaintances - in the sense they're people he's met through work and they still keep in touch. To me, the inclusion comes from my husband. Although one woman gave him a thank you gift... and addressed it to both of us; to be shared between us. Her consideration to include me was appreciated. It's quite typical for him to catch up over the phone or video call. Often industry-related conversation combined with social talk. I've heard him on calls, but don't really listen. Although afterwards, I might ask him what's making news with them / he shares with me. Sometimes their husbands will jump on and chat with him, too. For the most part, I know enough about them that when he mentions he's catching up with Batgirl, I typically know some stuff about her. I also know that he shares about me/us too (in a more general sense). During these times, he has asked if I want to say hello on video, however, I've not really felt the need or inclination to join.

Ultimately though, I'm comfortable with the interactions he has because of the way _he _includes me and conducts himself. As well as perhaps that I'm getting older and more comfortable within myself - simultaneously not to feel threatened while knowing what is and isn't cool with me. I also know his interactions are quite different when catching up with his male buddies, maybe having whisky and cigar over video chat.

With work/life changes, I currently only have one male friend. When we catch up, we can be on the phone for a few hours. And for what it's worth, I could be the last woman on the planet and he wouldn't be interested in me.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

My opinion regarding OSF’s while in a committed relationship is that, in general, it’s just not a good idea. One of our regular posters here on the site always says that as a spouse, you have a right to feel safe from infidelity. (Well, it’s something along those lines, that’s not exact quote!) However having said that, I honestly think that it really just depends on the friend and the friendship, it’s not a one size fits all situation. My recent ex-boyfriend had a very close friend since high school who was like a sister for him, they had never dated, and were super close. I met her a few times and she was always very cool to me, and I had no issue with him talking with her through text or Facebook or anything. He could have met up with her and I would have been fine with it. 

I also had another ex-boyfriend years ago who’s best friend was a woman. Along the same lines, they were like brother and sister, and had never been romantically involved. She was very accepting of me and very nice to me, and I had absolutely no issue with them talking and spending time. I saw how they interacted. But... this ex did have a tendency to hang on to all of his ex-girlfriend’s as friends, and THAT I was not ok with, with most of them. Some of them called him for advice or for help doing this or that. He did end up cheating on me with the ex from right before me, and that one I had no idea he’d been contacting, he had always had bad things to say about her. I didn’t see it coming. 

I would not like it if a man I was seeing struck up a friendship with a new woman after we were together. Especially if she was single. I just think it’s not appropriate and unnecessary. In general I don’t want my guy chatting over FB or text or Snapchat or whatever with other women, under the title “just friends”. Like others have mentioned, there has to be boundaries. There also needs to be respect for your relationship. Share your thoughts with your spouse instead of someone outside. 
I just think in these days of instant communication, it’s a slippery slope. People walk around with their affair partner in their pocket, for crying out loud. It’s just too easy for things to go bad. So I feel that being open, inclusive, and respectful of your partners feelings are all needed when navigating these friendships. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

GutShot7 said:


> What is wrong with venting about your relationship with friends. Isn't that part of what friends are for? So you can vent to them about your issues in life without judgement and get some feedback.


I dont think its a good idea to vent about your partner with others, especially if they are the opposite sex.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am not a fan of opposite sex friends when you are married, especially close ones. Not everyone will respect our marriages and many will go after married people. Yes fine to have friends who you both know, church friends, work colleagues etc, but not meeting for a meal or coffee or out for a drink with them alone. I wouldn't meet up with another man without my husband, thats my choice. I myself have strong boundaries, I have seen far too many affairs and divorces happen though people getting too close, a few in my own family. I have never cheated in either of my marriages, (25 and 15 years) and I have no intention of ever doing so, and my husband trusts me 100%, but we are all fallible in the end and we need to do what we can to protect what is important to us, IE our marriages.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

There an old saying about the law. “It’s not enough that justice is done, it must be seen to be done”.
My wife explained this to me once. She said she knew I wouldn’t cheat on her but her friends and family didn’t. So if they seen me having lunch or even coffee with another woman their suspicions would rise and their respect for me would drop.
I believe that you can have an opposite sex best friend.
As long as their gay.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

A male friend who was like a brother to me since our teenage years - so 30 years, had to step back from our friendship, because his wife was uncomfortable with it. And you know what? I get it, I completely understand that. I did feel sorry for him, he was so apologetic when he told me, but very relieved that I was apparently "so good about it". We still keep in touch, but only through texts/calls between her and I or the 3 of us. Never him and I 1:1.

My husband has longtime friends, a married couple, knew them long before he met me. If he caught up with the wife 1:1 I honestly would be fine with it. But it's an old, longtime friendship. If he met a new female friend now, and wanted to start going to 1:1 things with her, nope. No way. I would never tell him he can't, (we're on the same page with all that stuff so it wouldn't happen anyway) but he wouldn't want to let the door hit him in the backside on his way out.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> There an old saying about the law. “It’s not enough that justice is done, it must be seen to be done”.


Our Justice System has obligations to all of us, your marriage does not. I hope it pays the two of you dividends, but it doesn't owe me a thing.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I also have a few OS friends.
Both of them are actually my former secretaries.
My wife knows and is on good terms with both of them.
We live about 80 miles from both of them, so seeing them all the time is out of the question.
Generally, our communication is a few texts, an occasional phone call or lunch (and I include my wife) or for one, an occasional message on my public FB page.
For instance, last week, I heard from my last secretary who is still employed at the place I retired from. She texted with some interesting developments at the workplace. This evolved into a 2.5 hour phone call about the situation. I wanted some detail, she wanted my advice about coping with things.
This conversation took place about 20' away from my wife, and after I told her what happened, briefed her about the situation (she knows a couple of people involved.)
My wife and I have total transparency on all devices, and I have absolutely no problem with that.
I have nothing to hide. I love my wife, I have absolutely no desire to cheat on her.
If I have an OS friend, there is going to be context and transparency to it and my wife is going to be intertwined in the friendship. If it bothers her, it's not going to happen.
She feels the same way.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> There are lots of things I feel I'd never do, like strangle my aged aunt or molest my niece's kid or poison my neighbor's dog.
> There are things I don't want to do, but there are a lot of other things/situations I am comfortable with that are frequently proscribed on this site.Thank you for your concern, but it hasn't presented any problems yet.I didn't say that, and my spouse is ok w/ my behavior.


I am not really saying this about your life.
I am pointing out...for the entire discussion how this "wouldn't cheat" platitude is thrown out as the end all be all that decides all matters.
Not having intercourse does not necassarily mean the relationship has no issues.
Husband wants to go to strippers.
Wife upset.
Did he have sex with stripper? No? Then shut up wife, you have no complaints.
My wife wnats to travel out of town alone with guy friend to see concert, staying overnight.
Do I think they had sex? No.
I am still not going to accept that happening.
Not having sex isn't the automatic "all is 100% ok" that many throw out to squelsh discussion.
That is what I am pointing out.
Sex or no sex does not end the discussion so I am pointing that out to everyone else.
I couldn't care less about your own personal relationship details.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

hinterdir said:


> I am not really saying this about your life.
> I am pointing out...for the entire discussion how this "wouldn't cheat" platitude is thrown out as the end all be all that decides all matters.


Then it's a good thing I pointed out I am not promoting that platitude.


> I couldn't care less about your own personal relationship details.


Of course not, you just came into a thread about members' personal relationship details and quoted a post by me that about my personal relationships.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> Then it's a good thing I pointed out I am not promoting that platitude.
> 
> Of course not, you just came into a thread about members' personal relationship details and quoted a post by me that about my personal relationships.


Well, since you threw out the "I wouldn't cheat" as your defense or validation to do whatever it is you wanted to do and this is, oh roughly, the one hundredth or more time I've read that somewhere....reddit, these boards....you name it. Anytime a boundary issue comes up someone will throw out...."not gonna cheat", "don't you trust them?" "You must not trust that they aren't going to cheat otherwise....blah, blah, blah".

Well, since you mentioned the "not going to cheat" angle, I definitely chose to call that angle out. Even if a spouse DOES NOT CHEAT there are still plenty of actions, behaviors and relationships a spouse still might not be ok with or want curbed back. 

I've actually already forgotten what you even said you and your wife/husband do or don't do. I do not care, that isn't my point in responding to the "I'm not going to cheat" comment. 
This isn't about you. This is about anyone who'd want to throw out the cheating or not cheating as the sole determining factor as to what is ok for them. 

I'm sure most women do not fear or think their men are having sexual intercourse at a strip club. So the "I"m not gonna cheat" doesn't really matter. They may just not like a nude woman putting on a naked show to turn her man on or her grinding on him through a lap dance. 
That's just a random example of an action some women are ok with....some not but sex and cheating isn't really the issue. 

Saying "not gonna cheat" isn't necessarily the key. 
So once again poster....I would have responded to anyone at this point who had thrown out the line "not gonna cheat" in their opinion, when it comes to boundaries between spouses regarding things with the opposite sex. I'm not addressing or commenting on any of the details of what you said you and your spouse do or don't do or are ok with or not ok with....I'm just pushing back on the theme of not actually cheating as being a magic bullet to browbeat another spouse into accepting a behavior they are uncomfortable with. 

Yours just happened to be the post I read and saw "not gonna cheat" in which I chose to address that and point out that doesn't have to be the issue....whether it is cheating or not. 
Sorry you seem to be unable to just accept that I chose to respond using your post and verbiage as the "example" but this isn't about you.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> Saying "not gonna cheat" isn't necessarily the key.


You have to decide at what point is cheating? Kissing, fingerings, oral ..... I have read a few message boards that some --usually the 20 somethings- who believe that it is no different than shaking hands.

Is it ok for a spouse to stay out late?

I used to have that thought --with my first husband--, that as long as they don't have sex........ Well, the steps words that can be just as painful. Ie, watching your partner prioritize their needs over yours; the close friend dissing you and when you try to be friendly with you, they diss you again.

I have read that some women like emotional affairs. They get ALL THAT while not having to put out. Relatonships are dynamic, so letting one of your buddies hone in on your wife could lead, well somehere.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

hinterdir said:


> Well, since you threw out the "I wouldn't cheat" as your *defense or validation* to do whatever it is you wanted to do


 Ha ha, like I need to defend or validate. This thread isn't a debate, it is an inventory of members' practices. Since I don't cheat I mentioned that as a practice.


> Well, since you mentioned the "not going to cheat" angle, I definitely chose to call that angle out. Even if a spouse DOES NOT CHEAT there are still plenty of actions, behaviors and relationships a spouse still might not be ok with or want curbed back.


Which brings us back to the purpose of the thread, which is an inventory, and not for anyone to preach sermons at those who break the harmony of the echo chamber.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm curious to hear everyone's viewpoint on opposite sex friends.
> 
> I'm of the opinion that they are fine, but once people are partnered good boundaries needs to be in place and ideally you become a friend of the couple. ...


I think OSF are OKAY, but should be an *exception*, not the rule. And like you said, the "friend" needs to make an extra effort to reach out to the spouse/partner, and the spouse/partner who seeks to have an OSF needs to treat the OSF as a "privilege, not a right." 

that privilege is "earned" by going the extra mile to make sure the spouse/partner is okay with the OSF and communications and contacts with the OSF are all "above board" so to speak. 

I also would agree with frusdil, that it's more understandable if it's a OSF that existed before the marriage:


frusdil said:


> ... If he met a new female friend now, and wanted to start going to 1:1 things with her, nope. ...


Beyond all this... I do think co-workers are one area it's more acceptable; people need to rely on co-workers for recommendations, job referrals, workplace gossip, etc., and over the last couple decades workplaces have become more equally-gendered (though it varies depending on the department and industry). Over time, professional relationships can become friendships. Of course, professional friendships don't need to meet in person; a phone call or couple texts can communication this information. If professional relationships start to invade private, after-work hours, that's a red flag.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

My husband made the choice not to have OSFs because of his raunchy past. He had a LOT of OSFs when we started dating. The issue/problem with his OSFs was that he slept with the majority of them. On the other hand I had a couple of OSFs in high school, and none since we got married 2 years after I finished high school. I have female friends, my husband has male friends; and all are married, so we have couples friends. 

I guess because I have 3 brothers, 3 brothers-in-law, and a boat full of close male cousins, I have no void in my life from not having OSFs. I know my husband would be okay with having OSFs if he knew I was okay with it. But he knows his past makes that kind of hard for me, even after 15 years of marriage.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

hinterdir said:


> Not having sex isn't the automatic "all is 100% ok" that many throw out to squelsh discussion.
> That is what I am pointing out.
> Sex or no sex does not end the discussion


Yeah, I agree with this, it's not just about whether the clothes come off or not. 

There is such a thing as loyalty or disloyalty, and disloyalty can come in many forms, for example talking about problems in one's marriage. Women, I've heard, often talk to their female friends about their husbands' shortcomings of one kind or another, and I suppose men learn to accept that, but if she was telling a male friend that would be a big problem. (How gay and lesbian couples handle this I don't even know, and I'd be glad to learn). 

From my perspective, I am single, I have female friends, and some of them are married, so I am an OSF. I try to draw a very careful line that I don't want to hear anything that their spouse hasn't heard. No behind-the-back talk.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> Yeah, I agree with this, it's not just about whether the clothes come off or not.
> 
> There is such a thing as loyalty or disloyalty, and disloyalty can come in many forms, for example talking about problems in one's marriage. Women, I've heard, often talk to their female friends about their husbands' shortcomings of one kind or another, and I suppose men learn to accept that, but if she was telling a male friend that would be a big problem. (How gay and lesbian couples handle this I don't even know, and I'd be glad to learn).
> 
> From my perspective, I am single, I have female friends, and some of them are married, so I am an OSF. I try to draw a very careful line that I don't want to hear anything that their spouse hasn't heard. No behind-the-back talk.


This is how I think...the loyalty vs disloyalty thing. It looks like some people draw the line at cheating, which is fine if your spouse both agrees and agrees on what constitutes cheating.

In my mind your partner has to be priority one, and if there's an osf they don't like that should be enough....particularly if there aren't other controlling tendencies.

You don't have to be cheating to either be disloyal or to fail to put your partner first. I had a work running partner once stop running with me because he got a new gf that didn't like it, and while we had nothing going on I understood. If we'd continued i would reached out to her but that never happened. They ended up getting married and have now been together 10 years....clearly his 1st priority had to be her.

I'm fb friends with him and I congratulated them on their recent wedding anniversary. She liked my post.

For the record.....i think everyone is capable of cheating under the right circumstances. If you have loyalty to your partner you won't be in those situations.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

I'm going to generally go with Steve Harvey on this. I don't think that men and women can be "friends" in the sense that they can do things together and not have sx come up - unless there are some barriers like gay or they are related. 

Now, to make this completely NOT MAKE SENSE - I feel like_ I can _personally not be bothered being around a man as a friend - but I know for a fact that my husband CAN NOT be around women as friends. My husband is a priority sex thinker - so it's on his mind...like pretty much...95% of the time around women. He has never been able to be around women without his brain going there. We've talked about it alot. I know this about him. 

I, on the other hand, stupidly have attempted to be "friends" with guys and it never works out that the guy doesn't either get freaked about being committed elsewhere sexually so he doesn't want to hang out or talk to me - or the guy is single and eventually thinks we are going to F or the guy is committed and intends to F anyway.

Different people are going to have different experiences, I realize, so I'm not saying that my personal life experience is universal. But, Steve Harvey explains this all the time - and he's a really straight talker. I believe him. Nothing is going to be 100% true - but I think he is trying to speak to the larger audience when he says that most guys who are your "friend" are actually just leaning in waiting for you to say "Okay, go."


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> I'm going to generally go with Steve Harvey on this.


You're entitled to your opinion on OSFs, but what little I've seen of Steve Harvey leads me to think he is dumber than most of the housepets I've had.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

It’s one thing to have an opposite sex friend you were raised with or have had for years and years, and its another thing to be like... hey I just met a new friend at work and we’re going to hang out, oh yea and he’s a man.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> It’s one thing to have an opposite sex friend you were raised with or have had for years and years, and its another thing to be like... hey I just met a new friend at work and we’re going to hang out, oh yea and he’s a man.


Exactly.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Definitely a fine line. I think friends of the opposite sex can happen when that person is good friends with you AND your spouse. And that friend is married. Never be close friends with a single member of the opposite sex.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Dadto2 said:


> Definitely a fine line. I think friends of the opposite sex can happen when that person is good friends with you AND your spouse. And that friend is married. Never be close friends with a single member of the opposite sex.


Lucky none of my married friends had that attitude with me when I was single, holy cow!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

frusdil said:


> Lucky none of my married friends had that attitude with me when I was single, holy cow!


I have noticed that some women have some tough boundaries when it comes to contact with their partner ....... only for them to behave as if everyone else's are much lower.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> ... and I feel like people who aren't trash will distance themselves if they sense their presence is causing problems.


This is a great point.

I have a hypothetical question for everyone. You have a close OSF, and one day you are contacted by their spouse. The spouse is clearly uncomfortable with your friendship and is letting you know that they want it to end. The spouse of your OSF also tells you that they spoke to their spouse (your OSF) and your OSF does not plan on ending the friend with you from their side. So the spouse of your OSF wants you to end it. What do you do?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> This is a great point.
> 
> I have a hypothetical question for everyone. You have a close OSF, and one day you are contacted by their spouse. The spouse is clearly uncomfortable with your friendship and is letting you know that they want it to end. The spouse of your OSF also tells you that they spoke to their spouse (your OSF) and your OSF does not plan on ending the friend from their side. So the spouse of your OSF wants you to end it. What do you do?


I'd ask to meet with them both (and optionally with my spouse there too), and discuss it if the OSF's spouse does not already know me. If they still want me out of the picture after meeting, I'm okay with that even if their reasons and feelings seem irrational. I have no wish to be a problem for anyone's relationship, but I won't simply give up a good friend without an attempt to save the situation first.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

minimalME said:


> Personally, in this day and age, I don't believe in opposite sex friends once you're married, and this example is a problem for me.
> 
> This man knew that female friends made his wife super uncomfortable, yet he kept them anyway.
> 
> ...


And what he may get out of it could only be the ability to spite or bait his wife.

I had this problem with my first husband. back during a time when I believed therapists that having an open honest discussion with your spouse will solve issues. ... no it doesn't ..... and I want my money back.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

The Middleman said:


> This is a great point.
> 
> I have a hypothetical question for everyone. You have a close OSF, and one day you are contacted by their spouse. The spouse is clearly uncomfortable with your friendship and is letting you know that they want it to end. The spouse of your OSF also tells you that they spoke to their spouse (your OSF) and your OSF does not plan on ending the friend with you from their side. So the spouse of your OSF wants you to end it. What do you do?


End it out of respect for the spouse.


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