# Christmas Disappointment



## AVR1962

Looking for a male perspective on this one. I am 55, boyfriend is 61. We have been seeing each other for 3 months and in that time we have celebrated his birthday, my birthday and Tday together....all went well. He made my birthday very nice, really went out of his way for me. A few days before Christmas he told me he stopped by the store to pick up a couple toys for family members to open Christmas day. I could tell by the questions he'd been asking me he was thinking about buying me jewelry. Christmas eve he had to work late. He called me and asked if I could look up closing hours of a couple stores, everything was closed. He apologized then, telling me that he had planned to buy me a jewelry item and an antenna for my TV. (I don't watch TV so I don't have Cable and he thinks I should at last be able to watch local stations.) 

I dress up in a skirt I bought just for Christmas, I had been invited for his house for dinner. As I pull into his town I notice Albertson's was open which I thought was odd for Christmas day. I get to his house and he had been taking a nap, was dressed in sweatpants and a thermal undershirt that looked like it had been pulled out of a dirty clothes pile. Our evening was spent watching TV. I gave him the gifts I bought for him which he seemed surprised to receive. I bought them a couple weeks ago from Amazon. 

Heading back to my house I realized I had an idea of what Christmas day was going to be and it wasn't what I imagined it to be and was very disappointed, actually quite hurt infact. I turned off my phone and went to bed. After I turned my phone off he had texted me saying I was the most kind hearted, patient and understanding person he had ever met.


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## CharlieParker

Leaving your gift too long is crappy but I'd be willing to let him make up for it. 

People celebrate differently, sorry if it wasn't what you were expecting and/or maybe used to. It's one reason we always do Christmas Eve for just us, the way we like it. Christmas day if we go else where then whatever. What was on TV, football or something seasonal, or just the normal stuff? The former I could understand, the latter not so much.


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## Spicy

Which part disappoints you?

That he didn’t dress up? That he didn’t plan better to get you a gift? That you watched TV? Or the combo of it all?


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## southbound

AVR1962 said:


> Looking for a male perspective on this one. I am 55, boyfriend is 61. We have been seeing each other for 3 months and in that time we have celebrated his birthday, my birthday and Tday together....all went well. He made my birthday very nice, really went out of his way for me. A few days before Christmas he told me he stopped by the store to pick up a couple toys for family members to open Christmas day. I could tell by the questions he'd been asking me he was thinking about buying me jewelry. Christmas eve he had to work late. He called me and asked if I could look up closing hours of a couple stores, everything was closed. He apologized then, telling me that he had planned to buy me a jewelry item and an antenna for my TV. (I don't watch TV so I don't have Cable and he thinks I should at last be able to watch local stations.)
> 
> I dress up in a skirt I bought just for Christmas, I had been invited for his house for dinner. As I pull into his town I notice Albertson's was open which I thought was odd for Christmas day. I get to his house and he had been taking a nap, was dressed in sweatpants and a thermal undershirt that looked like it had been pulled out of a dirty clothes pile. Our evening was spent watching TV. I gave him the gifts I bought for him which he seemed surprised to receive. I bought them a couple weeks ago from Amazon.
> 
> Heading back to my house I realized I had an idea of what Christmas day was going to be and it wasn't what I imagined it to be and was very disappointed, actually quite hurt infact. I turned off my phone and went to bed. After I turned my phone off he had texted me saying I was the most kind hearted, patient and understanding person he had ever met.


Am I reading correctly that he didn't get you a gift of any kind? You said you were invited for dinner. Had he prepared dinner for you? Was it a nice meal?


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## john117

Without generalizing about older people my age who are single, there generally is a reason they're single, and it's not because a grand piano fell on their partner's Prius and took them out.

If it was a one time event I'd write it off especially if he acknowledges it in some unprompted way. But if it happens again, then refer to the first paragraph.


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## chillymorn69

AVR1962 said:


> Looking for a male perspective on this one. I am 55, boyfriend is 61. We have been seeing each other for 3 months and in that time we have celebrated his birthday, my birthday and Tday together....all went well. He made my birthday very nice, really went out of his way for me. A few days before Christmas he told me he stopped by the store to pick up a couple toys for family members to open Christmas day. I could tell by the questions he'd been asking me he was thinking about buying me jewelry. Christmas eve he had to work late. He called me and asked if I could look up closing hours of a couple stores, everything was closed. He apologized then, telling me that he had planned to buy me a jewelry item and an antenna for my TV. (I don't watch TV so I don't have Cable and he thinks I should at last be able to watch local stations.)
> 
> I dress up in a skirt I bought just for Christmas, I had been invited for his house for dinner. As I pull into his town I notice Albertson's was open which I thought was odd for Christmas day. I get to his house and he had been taking a nap, was dressed in sweatpants and a thermal undershirt that looked like it had been pulled out of a dirty clothes pile. Our evening was spent watching TV. I gave him the gifts I bought for him which he seemed surprised to receive. I bought them a couple weeks ago from Amazon.
> 
> Heading back to my house I realized I had an idea of what Christmas day was going to be and it wasn't what I imagined it to be and was very disappointed, actually quite hurt infact. I turned off my phone and went to bed. After I turned my phone off he had texted me saying I was the most kind hearted, patient and understanding person he had ever met.


He sounds depressed.

What do you like about him?


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## Cooper

So it wasn't what you expected...that's why you date a person, to figure out if there's compatibility. The first few months were the honeymoon stage and he tried to make things special for you, now you see how he truly is.


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## Andy1001

AVR1962 said:


> Looking for a male perspective on this one. I am 55, boyfriend is 61. We have been seeing each other for 3 months and in that time we have celebrated his birthday, my birthday and Tday together....all went well. He made my birthday very nice, really went out of his way for me. A few days before Christmas he told me he stopped by the store to pick up a couple toys for family members to open Christmas day. I could tell by the questions he'd been asking me he was thinking about buying me jewelry. Christmas eve he had to work late. He called me and asked if I could look up closing hours of a couple stores, everything was closed. He apologized then, telling me that he had planned to buy me a jewelry item and an antenna for my TV. (I don't watch TV so I don't have Cable and he thinks I should at last be able to watch local stations.)
> 
> I dress up in a skirt I bought just for Christmas, I had been invited for his house for dinner. As I pull into his town I notice Albertson's was open which I thought was odd for Christmas day. I get to his house and he had been taking a nap, was dressed in sweatpants and a thermal undershirt that looked like it had been pulled out of a dirty clothes pile. Our evening was spent watching TV. I gave him the gifts I bought for him which he seemed surprised to receive. I bought them a couple weeks ago from Amazon.
> 
> Heading back to my house I realized I had an idea of what Christmas day was going to be and it wasn't what I imagined it to be and was very disappointed, actually quite hurt infact. I turned off my phone and went to bed. After I turned my phone off he had texted me saying I was the most kind hearted, patient and understanding person he had ever met.


Is this the same guy who invited you to Golden Corral for your first date together?


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## TheDudeLebowski

This highlights why I can't stand Christmas. Kids are fun to give gifts to. Adults are stupid and have all these expectations. Listen, I can make a random Tuesday wonderful for you just because I care about you. Adults, especially women, place all of this importance on a day where one is required to give. Its not a gift just because I care, it is society, and women like you OP, who put all of this pressure on everyone else. You dream up these fantasies about how wonderful it will be, and almost always are let down. That is your own fault!


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## john117

Cultural norms are not dreams by any stretch.


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## turnera

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This highlights why I can't stand Christmas. Kids are fun to give gifts to. Adults are stupid and have all these expectations. Listen, I can make a random Tuesday wonderful for you just because I care about you. Adults, especially women, place all of this importance on a day where one is required to give. Its not a gift just because I care, it is society, and women like you OP, who put all of this pressure on everyone else. You dream up these fantasies about how wonderful it will be, and almost always are let down. That is your own fault!


The first year my H and I started dating, my birthday rolls around and he gives me nothing. I was pretty upset and asked him about it. He said that he didn't believe in 'having' to give people gifts, that he'd rather just 'make a random Tuesday wonderful' whenever he felt like it. (You can't tell ME what to do!)

So when his birthday rolled around six months later, I too, did nothing. He was astounded. Hurt. Angry. Incredulous. I just shrugged and said 'you don't believe in being forced to give presents just because society says so. So I'm just following your lead - you didn't me anything so I assumed you didn't want me to give YOU anything.'

He never ignored my birthday again.


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## Yeswecan

Christmas is not for everyone. For some it is the most wonderful time of the year. Others it is a financial burden. There are many who get depressed. Some celebrate it with Christmas decorations covering the entire home. Others put up a tree. There are many that do nothing. 

What was disappointing?


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## Steve1000

AVR1962 said:


> Heading back to my house I realized I had an idea of what Christmas day was going to be and it wasn't what I imagined it to be and was very disappointed, actually quite hurt infact. I turned off my phone and went to bed. After I turned my phone off he had texted me saying I was the most kind hearted, patient and understanding person he had ever met.


I would be disappointed too if I were you. After only three months of dating, he should have shown more signs of being excited to share Christmas with you.


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## Yeswecan

Steve1000 said:


> I would be disappointed too if I were you. After only three months of dating, he should have shown more signs of being excited to share Christmas with you.


Perhaps Christmas is anything but excitng for him.


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## TheDudeLebowski

john117 said:


> Cultural norms are not dreams by any stretch.


I beg to differ. Dreaming up scenarios in your head about how wonderful your holiday will be is a good way to get your feelings hurt when things don't go the way you dreamed they would. A gift given out of requirement by cultural norms isn't very thoughtful in my book. Especially when you give out a list of things you want. As an adult you can just go out and buy whatever it is you want. I don't need some pegan holiday to do something nice for someone else and be thoughtful. The fact that I feel required to do so makes it not special to me. Dropping hints two months prior about a gift you want to receive on a day you feel I should be required to give you something just feels childish. If I give something on that list, it doesn't feel thoughtful. It feels like I was given a grocery list of things to pick up on my way home from work. If I don't get you what you ask for, someone gets disappointed. The whole thing is silly to me and a bit childish.


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## kag123

That stinks. Even if there weren't gifts, I would have expected to have a nice dinner or a good bottle of wine or something if I was invited to someone's house during the holiday. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Steve1000

Yeswecan said:


> Perhaps Christmas is anything but excitng for him.


If that's the case, I think he should have communicated that to her. Even if Christmas was a pretty simple holiday for me, I would still understand that many others feel it is an exciting and romantic time. Instead of Christmas, let's say that this was any other holiday such as Independence Day. If I had been dating a lady for three months and we had a date planned for her to come to my house, I would at least be well-groomed and dress up a little bit to show her that I was anticipating seeing her again.


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## Yeswecan

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I beg to differ. Dreaming up scenarios in your head about how wonderful your holiday will be is a good way to get your feelings hurt when things don't go the way you dreamed they would. A gift given out of requirement by cultural norms isn't very thoughtful in my book. Especially when you give out a list of things you want. As an adult you can just go out and buy whatever it is you want. I don't need some pegan holiday to do something nice for someone else and be thoughtful. The fact that I feel required to do so makes it not special to me. Dropping hints two months prior about a gift you want to receive on a day you feel I should be required to give you something just feels childish. If I give something on that list, it doesn't feel thoughtful. It feels like I was given a grocery list of things to pick up on my way home from work. If I don't get you what you ask for, someone gets disappointed. The whole thing is silly to me and a bit childish.


Your "thoughtful" gift may not be what the receiver would see as thoughtful. It appears as a gift of what the other "should have" and not what they wanted or dreamed of having.


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## Yeswecan

Steve1000 said:


> If that's the case, I think he should have communicated that to her. Even if Christmas was a pretty simple holiday for me, I would still understand that many others feel it is an exciting and romantic time. Instead of Christmas, let's say that this was any other holiday such as Independence Day. If I had been dating a lady for three months and we had a date planned for her to come to my house, I would at least be well-groomed and dress up a little bit to show her that I was anticipating seeing her again.


Some can not make that effort during Christmas time. Depression is a hard driver for many. Specifically at Christmas.


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## EleGirl

@AVR1962

What did he cook for dinner? How much effort did he put into it?

Did he say that he was still going to get you the Christmas presents? Or is his plan now to get you nothing?

Does he often dress like that? 

This is a good preview of what you will be getting into to him.


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## Rick Blaine

OP,
Here is an analogy for you. The guy showed up to the job interview late, in sweats, haggard, and completely unprepared to answer the questions. He is unemployed and had several weeks to prepare. But he did send a nice follow-up letter after he tanked the interview.


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## AVR1962

Yeswecan said:


> Perhaps Christmas is anything but excitng for him.


That could be. I know that the holidays bring out a lot of emotional baggage and even though he did not express anything there could have been some associations going on.


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## AVR1962

Steve1000 said:


> If that's the case, I think he should have communicated that to her. Even if Christmas was a pretty simple holiday for me, I would still understand that many others feel it is an exciting and romantic time. Instead of Christmas, let's say that this was any other holiday such as Independence Day. If I had been dating a lady for three months and we had a date planned for her to come to my house, I would at least be well-groomed and dress up a little bit to show her that I was anticipating seeing her again.


Yes, that bothered me. He did invite me for a steak dinner on Christmas to show up to him napping and disarrayed like he wasn't expecting me. I was taken back by it.


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## EleGirl

AVR1962 said:


> Yes, that bothered me. He did invite me for a steak dinner on Christmas to show up to him napping and disarrayed like he wasn't expecting me. I was taken back by it.


Have you ever been to his place before for a date? If so, was it different than this?


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## AVR1962

EleGirl said:


> @AVR1962
> 
> What did he cook for dinner? How much effort did he put into it?
> 
> Did he say that he was still going to get you the Christmas presents? Or is his plan now to get you nothing?
> 
> Does he often dress like that?
> 
> This is a good preview of what you will be getting into to him.


He made a steak dinner with baked potatoes, we had wine with the dinner so he did put some time and effort into it.

He does not dress like this. He dresses well. When I have gone out with him, when he has come to my place or I have gone to his he dresses up, is clean.

He did not say whether he was going to make the gift giving up to me. I thanked him for the sweet text message which he sent last night (I saw this morn) but beyond that I am going to let him reach out to me. He claimed he had a gift in mind so I will see if he follows thru. 

I understand that not all people are gift givers, I do get that. My sister would always buy for her kids and I always made sure I sent presents to her family but she never reciprocated. I had a sister-in-law the same way....would not buy for the xtended family but made sure her kids had gifts.

For me a gift it saying "you are special, I was thinking of you." This year I knew one of my adult daughters did not have booster cables or an tire pump for her car so that was my gift to her. I know that is not a "sweet" gift to give, more practical and I did mention this to her before she opened it. Her response when she opened it, "Mom, that was really kind of you. It showed you care." Out of the mouth of my 21 year old!!!! Yes, I care and that is what a gift shows me. I would have run to the grocery store and bought a box of chocolates or a bottle of wine before I showed up empty handed but that is how I think and realize that not everyone is like myself.

It wasn't just the gift, it was the be-shelved look too.


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## AVR1962

EleGirl said:


> Have you ever been to his place before for a date? If so, was it different than this?


Yes, I have been to his house many times and yesterday just was not the norm so I don't know what was going on. I know he has been working some long hours and perhaps he was taking this day just to re-coop and rest? It would have been nice to been told that if that was the case. I left shortly after dinner. He told me he wished I would stay. I couldn't, I wasn't comfortable.


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## EleGirl

AVR1962 said:


> Yes, I have been to his house many times and yesterday just was not the norm so I don't know what was going on. I know he has been working some long hours and perhaps he was taking this day just to re-coop and rest? It would have been nice to been told that if that was the case. I left shortly after dinner. He told me he wished I would stay. I couldn't, I wasn't comfortable.


If you want to continue a relationship with is guy, maybe you need to have a heart to heart with him about what happened on Christmas. If you cannot have that kind of talk with him, then the relationship is not solid. 

Whatever you do, do not dismiss your feelings about this. There is something off with the way he behaved on Christmas. Because of the text he sent you afterwards, he knows that his behavior was not good.


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## EleGirl

AVR1962 said:


> He made a steak dinner with baked potatoes, we had wine with the dinner so he did put some time and effort into it.
> 
> He does not dress like this. He dresses well. When I have gone out with him, when he has come to my place or I have gone to his he dresses up, is clean.
> 
> He did not say whether he was going to make the gift giving up to me. I thanked him for the sweet text message which he sent last night (I saw this morn) but beyond that I am going to let him reach out to me. He claimed he had a gift in mind so I will see if he follows thru.
> 
> I understand that not all people are gift givers, I do get that. My sister would always buy for her kids and I always made sure I sent presents to her family but she never reciprocated. I had a sister-in-law the same way....would not buy for the xtended family but made sure her kids had gifts.
> 
> For me a gift it saying "you are special, I was thinking of you." This year I knew one of my adult daughters did not have booster cables or an tire pump for her car so that was my gift to her. I know that is not a "sweet" gift to give, more practical and I did mention this to her before she opened it. Her response when she opened it, "Mom, that was really kind of you. It showed you care." Out of the mouth of my 21 year old!!!! Yes, I care and that is what a gift shows me. I would have run to the grocery store and bought a box of chocolates or a bottle of wine before I showed up empty handed but that is how I think and realize that not everyone is like myself.
> 
> It wasn't just the gift, it was the be-shelved look too.


Whether he is a gift giver or not might not be the issue here. He told you he was getting your something. He engaged you in things like helping him find out the hours that stores were open. So he did things that built your anticipation. 

My ex used to do this, often. Then he'd not have a gift for me. To me, the message was that in the end, he felt that is was not worth all the effort it would take to actually got to the store to get the gift. Of course there was much more to it that that since just about everything he did gave that message.

You really need to talk to him about this.


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## Rick Blaine

Well, you are three months in. A thoughtful gift that says I love you should be the standard. But I am one who like to give affirmation. Not all are this way. Still, his response to Christmas did not earn a passing grade.

I don't know how you broach this conversation. I would not talk about it, but I would take note of what happened, flag it red, and wait and see what happens when the next holiday or milestone comes. 

Just odd behavior.


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## AVR1962

EleGirl said:


> Whether he is a gift giver or not might not be the issue here. He told you he was getting your something. He engaged you in things like helping him find out the hours that stores were open. So he did things that built your anticipation.
> 
> My ex used to do this, often. Then he'd not have a gift for me. To me, the message was that in the end, he felt that is was not worth all the effort it would take to actually got to the store to get the gift. Of course there was much more to it that that since just about everything he did gave that message.
> 
> You really need to talk to him about this.


Yeah, and that is not good and I certainly do not want to deal with this type of situation repeatedly so that why if it is any kind of game, laziness, not feeling for me, etc....the game stops here!!!


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## AVR1962

Rick Blaine said:


> Well, you are three months in. A thoughtful gift that says I love you should be the standard. But I am one who like to give affirmation. Not all are this way. Still, his response to Christmas did not earn a passing grade.
> 
> I don't know how you broach this conversation. I would not talk about it, but I would take note of what happened, flag it red, and wait and see what happens when the next holiday or milestone comes.
> 
> Just odd behavior.


I will not be contacting him. If he wants to make up for the gift that he claims he "wanted" to give me, he knows where I live. He is going to have to make an effort.


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## cc48kel

Yes I can understand.. My SIL starts after Halloween-- their house is all holiday stuff.. Literally, it's like Santa threw-up. I decorate but I believe just enough. Some people just throw up a tree and are ready. Maybe your boyfriend is that type of guy-- X-mas is not a big deal. It could be how his past holidays have been so maybe you'll have to work with him on that. Both parties at in-laws and mine are laid-back.. No one wears sweats but we all look nice. Some families get really dressed up. I took a 'back seat' with gifts this year-- I don't know what happened but I did-- I flaked. I didn't wanted X-mas but it came quickly and I was scrambling last minute, maybe your boyfriend did that as well. I told my parents their gifts would get to them soon-- They totally understand!!

Also, my friend's boyfriend hyped her up by talking about jewelry and some other things.. And she didn't get anything special so she is wondering why he would ask her about this stuff.. I agree all it's does it get your mind worked up and excited only to be let down..


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## turnera

My DD27 had a two-strike rule on dating. Anyone can make a mistake and you should allow that. But if the same thing happens a second time, it's a pattern, and no need to waste further effort on that person: you just aren't compatible. 

That said, you OWE it to him to tell him your feelings on this. Not for his sake, but for YOUR sake, if you want any kind of future with him. He needs to understand very clearly how this all came across to you. And if you tell him, and it happens again, then you'll have a choice to make.


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## Evinrude58

AVR1962 said:


> I will not be contacting him. If he wants to make up for the gift that he claims he "wanted" to give me, he knows where I live. He is going to have to make an effort.


AVR,

The guy worked long hours the day before. You said so. You obviously hadn't.

You had all these expectations that he cannot read your mind about and he therefore did not meet.

You base whether or not you're going to speak to him on unmet expectations. I think that is wrong.

Women, yes, I'm generalizing--- have all these bigtime expectations of men that they believe should constantly impress them with lavish gifts, fancy dinners, thightfullness, being perfectly dressed, etc etc. and when at least most of these expectations aren't met, women feel slighted.

Question: what kind of gf are YOU?

You knew he worked Christmas Eve. Did you consider cooking HIM a meal? Did you consider his needs may have just been laying down and snuggling with you and getting some rest?

Do you realize that your thoughtfulness of getting him "gifts" just pressured him to come up with some thoughtful present that most guys (I'm totally projecting, admittedly, in this whole post) don't have a clue what to get... that it is emotionally exhausting to have to fulfill all these unwritten, unknown expectations.

I oersonally see exactly what was likely going on in this guy's head: 

Meeting expectations for all these people in his life, and meeting all his responsibilities with work, bills, friends, family, etc etc. I personally am always stressed out this time of year in having to meet those responsibilities. You'd be amazed at how differently some guys perception of Christmas is.

I will end by saying this:

He gave you a really nice compliment on your "understanding" of his not meeting the e oectations he suspected you had.
He is going to mess up again. No doubt.

He may be a lousy gift giver, but would bend over backward taking care of you with a big problem like a car repair, a move, etc.

I think you need to talk to him about your disappointment and listen to his point of view.
You may find he is very willing to make up for the lousy Christmas you didn't get, if you tell him exactly what he needed to do to make you happy.

Just my totally biased opinion.


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## Akfranklin2014

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I beg to differ. Dreaming up scenarios in your head about how wonderful your holiday will be is a good way to get your feelings hurt when things don't go the way you dreamed they would. A gift given out of requirement by cultural norms isn't very thoughtful in my book. Especially when you give out a list of things you want. As an adult you can just go out and buy whatever it is you want. I don't need some pegan holiday to do something nice for someone else and be thoughtful. The fact that I feel required to do so makes it not special to me. Dropping hints two months prior about a gift you want to receive on a day you feel I should be required to give you something just feels childish. If I give something on that list, it doesn't feel thoughtful. It feels like I was given a grocery list of things to pick up on my way home from work. If I don't get you what you ask for, someone gets disappointed. The whole thing is silly to me and a bit childish.



I have to respond to this. This whole post is about YOU, especially these phrases in particular “I don’t need some pagan holiday to do something nice for someone else and be thoughtful. The fact that I feel required to do so makes it not special to me.” Giving a gift at any time, not just Christmas, isn’t about how it makes you feel. It’s about expressing your feelings towards the other person, regardless of when it is. Nothing about Christmas is supposed to be about yourself. It doesn’t matter how you feel. The joy of Christmas comes from watching the other person’s face light up when they see you’ve gotten them something they really wanted or needed. And a list provides you with their wants and/or needs so you know what to get. If you get them something not on their list they could be disappointed because it’s something they will never use or they will feel like you don’t know them or care about them at all because you didn’t take the time to get something from the list. Most people don’t actually give a list unless the person giving the gift asks for one anyway. I ask my kids what they want. They never get it all but they get some of it and then some things I know they need. (Because lets face it, most kids just ask for toys and video games lol!) 

I just feel like you shouldn’t celebrate Christmas at all. There’s nothing wrong with that, but make sure those around you know your plan is to make them feel special on your terms, not because a holiday tells you to. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Rick Blaine

Evinrude58 said:


> AVR,
> 
> The guy worked long hours the day before. You said so. You obviously hadn't.
> 
> You had all these expectations that he cannot read your mind about and he therefore did not meet.
> 
> You base whether or not you're going to speak to him on unmet expectations. I think that is wrong.
> 
> Women, yes, I'm generalizing--- have all these bigtime expectations of men that they believe should constantly impress them with lavish gifts, fancy dinners, thightfullness, being perfectly dressed, etc etc. and when at least most of these expectations aren't met, women feel slighted.
> 
> Question: what kind of gf are YOU?
> 
> You knew he worked Christmas Eve. Did you consider cooking HIM a meal? Did you consider his needs may have just been laying down and snuggling with you and getting some rest?
> 
> Do you realize that your thoughtfulness of getting him "gifts" just pressured him to come up with some thoughtful present that most guys (I'm totally projecting, admittedly, in this whole post) don't have a clue what to get... that it is emotionally exhausting to have to fulfill all these unwritten, unknown expectations.
> 
> I oersonally see exactly what was likely going on in this guy's head:
> 
> Meeting expectations for all these people in his life, and meeting all his responsibilities with work, bills, friends, family, etc etc. I personally am always stressed out this time of year in having to meet those responsibilities. You'd be amazed at how differently some guys perception of Christmas is.
> 
> I will end by saying this:
> 
> He gave you a really nice compliment on your "understanding" of his not meeting the e oectations he suspected you had.
> He is going to mess up again. No doubt.
> 
> He may be a lousy gift giver, but would bend over backward taking care of you with a big problem like a car repair, a move, etc.
> 
> I think you need to talk to him about your disappointment and listen to his point of view.
> You may find he is very willing to make up for the lousy Christmas you didn't get, if you tell him exactly what he needed to do to make you happy.
> 
> Just my totally biased opinion.


Evinrude,
The problem though is this: He had plenty of time to prepare for Christmas. It's something, in fact, that requires a lot of thoughtful preparation. He didn't put in the time. Really, this one can't be explained away. He can make up for it, but the ball is in his court, not hers. If she brings it up it makes her look bad, and that's not fair. He owns this and it's his responsibility to fix it. Them's the rules of the dating game.


----------



## Evinrude58

I guess you're right... but what does he get a woman whom he's been dating for three months, and does the fact that he worked all Christmas Eve matter? 

I see this as OP worrying about her feelings, her wants, her needs.... since he didn't meet them, she's ready to look elsewhere, it sounds.

I say she needs to tell him the rules of the game, if she expects him to play ball with her.


----------



## EleGirl

Evinrude58 said:


> I guess you're right... but what does he get a woman whom he's been dating for three months, and does the fact that he worked all Christmas Eve matter?


A lot of people work Christmas Eve and are still able to get their presents and other things for the holiday done. He has had days, even weeks to pick up a present. If he was not going to get her a present, he should not have been telling her that he was and involved her in planning his Christmas shopping.



Evinrude58 said:


> I see this as OP worrying about her feelings, her wants, her needs.... since he didn't meet them, she's ready to look elsewhere, it sounds.


If she had not done some nice things for him, I would agree that it's all about her. But she did. She got him presents. She took a shower and got dressed nicely because she respected him. 

I wonder how he would have reacted if she had shown up wearing dirty, wrinkles sweats and a T-shirt? LOL



Evinrude58 said:


> I say she needs to tell him the rules of the game, if she expects him to play ball with her.


If she is going to continue to date, they do need to talk about this. But from my experience, a guy who does what he did is showing exactly who they are and showing how they will act on all holidays and special occasions... it's the old "I'm not going to buy you a gift just because it's a holiday."

But of course in my experience, men who are like this get quite upset if the woman forgets their holidays and birthdays.


----------



## turnera

Evinrude58 said:


> AVR,
> 
> The guy worked long hours the day before. You said so. You obviously hadn't.
> 
> You had all these expectations that he cannot read your mind about and he therefore did not meet.
> 
> You base whether or not you're going to speak to him on unmet expectations. I think that is wrong.
> 
> Women, yes, I'm generalizing--- have all these bigtime expectations of men that they believe should constantly impress them with lavish gifts, fancy dinners, thightfullness, being perfectly dressed, etc etc. and when at least most of these expectations aren't met, women feel slighted.
> 
> Question: what kind of gf are YOU?
> 
> You knew he worked Christmas Eve. Did you consider cooking HIM a meal? Did you consider his needs may have just been laying down and snuggling with you and getting some rest?
> 
> Do you realize that your thoughtfulness of getting him "gifts" just pressured him to come up with some thoughtful present that most guys (I'm totally projecting, admittedly, in this whole post) don't have a clue what to get... that it is emotionally exhausting to have to fulfill all these unwritten, unknown expectations.
> 
> I oersonally see exactly what was likely going on in this guy's head:
> 
> Meeting expectations for all these people in his life, and meeting all his responsibilities with work, bills, friends, family, etc etc. I personally am always stressed out this time of year in having to meet those responsibilities. You'd be amazed at how differently some guys perception of Christmas is.
> 
> I will end by saying this:
> 
> He gave you a really nice compliment on your "understanding" of his not meeting the e oectations he suspected you had.
> He is going to mess up again. No doubt.
> 
> He may be a lousy gift giver, but would bend over backward taking care of you with a big problem like a car repair, a move, etc.
> 
> I think you need to talk to him about your disappointment and listen to his point of view.
> You may find he is very willing to make up for the lousy Christmas you didn't get, if you tell him exactly what he needed to do to make you happy.
> 
> Just my totally biased opinion.


Can't argue with this. It's all about viewpoint. On the other hand, he did set up certain expectations. And IMO, wearing sweats after only 3 months...IDK...maybe it's a girl thing. But I would think he'd at least CARE what she thinks about him. 

And if he doesn't, that's very telling about who he really is.


----------



## turnera

Evinrude58 said:


> I guess you're right... but what does he get a woman whom he's been dating for three months, and does the fact that he worked all Christmas Eve matter?
> 
> I see this as OP worrying about her feelings, her wants, her needs.... since he didn't meet them, she's ready to look elsewhere, it sounds.
> 
> I say she needs to tell him the rules of the game, if she expects him to play ball with her.


Well, this IS her thread where she came to talk about why she was disappointed. But I agree, what's missing is the communication.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Akfranklin2014 said:


> Giving a gift at any time, not just Christmas, isn’t about how it makes you feel.It’s about expressing your feelings towards the other person, regardless of when it is. Nothing about Christmas is supposed to be about yourself. It doesn’t matter how you feel. The joy of Christmas comes from watching the other person’s face light up when they see you’ve gotten them something they really wanted or needed.


Talking out of both sides of your mouth. If giving a person a gift has nothing to do with how it makes you feel, why then does the joy of Christmas come from watching other people's faces light up at a gift you've given them?  

For the record, I do participate. I just don't find near as much joy when giving and receiving a gift is forced upon you. I dont ever want gifts for Christmas or valentines, or my birthday or anything of the sort. It is nice to get a gift randomly, but that isn't necessary either. I can by my own stuff. My favorite gifts ive received have never been purchased. 



Akfranklin2014 said:


> And a list provides you with their wants and/or needs so you know what to get. If you get them something not on their list they could be disappointed because it’s something they will never use or they will feel like you don’t know them or care about them at all because you didn’t take the time to get something from the list.


So its not the thought that counts after all. You aren't convincing me very well here to care about holidays that force one to give gifts. If I give you something off of a list, how is that in any way thoughtful? 



Akfranklin2014 said:


> Most people don’t actually give a list unless the person giving the gift asks for one anyway. I ask my kids what they want. They never get it all but they get some of it and then some things I know they need. (Because lets face it, most kids just ask for toys and video games lol!)


Well my son is a smarty pants and figured out that if he only asks Santa for one thing, he will get it. So he thought long and hard about what he really wanted from santa and thought about what he would just rather buy himself with Christmas money. He's pretty good with money for a 8 year old. Better than some 40 year old folks I know. 




Akfranklin2014 said:


> I just feel like you shouldn’t celebrate Christmas at all. There’s nothing wrong with that, but make sure those around you know your plan is to make them feel special on your terms, not because a holiday tells you to.


My wife knows my feelings on holidays. She still said "I do" and I still play along for hers and the kids sake with some of them. Although she knows my distaste in Christmas and Valentines day in particular.


----------



## Akfranklin2014

Evinrude58 said:


> AVR,
> 
> 
> 
> The guy worked long hours the day before. You said so. You obviously hadn't.
> 
> 
> 
> You had all these expectations that he cannot read your mind about and he therefore did not meet.
> 
> 
> 
> You base whether or not you're going to speak to him on unmet expectations. I think that is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Women, yes, I'm generalizing--- have all these bigtime expectations of men that they believe should constantly impress them with lavish gifts, fancy dinners, thightfullness, being perfectly dressed, etc etc. and when at least most of these expectations aren't met, women feel slighted.
> 
> 
> 
> Question: what kind of gf are YOU?
> 
> 
> 
> You knew he worked Christmas Eve. Did you consider cooking HIM a meal? Did you consider his needs may have just been laying down and snuggling with you and getting some rest?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize that your thoughtfulness of getting him "gifts" just pressured him to come up with some thoughtful present that most guys (I'm totally projecting, admittedly, in this whole post) don't have a clue what to get... that it is emotionally exhausting to have to fulfill all these unwritten, unknown expectations.
> 
> 
> 
> I oersonally see exactly what was likely going on in this guy's head:
> 
> 
> 
> Meeting expectations for all these people in his life, and meeting all his responsibilities with work, bills, friends, family, etc etc. I personally am always stressed out this time of year in having to meet those responsibilities. You'd be amazed at how differently some guys perception of Christmas is.
> 
> 
> 
> I will end by saying this:
> 
> 
> 
> He gave you a really nice compliment on your "understanding" of his not meeting the e oectations he suspected you had.
> 
> He is going to mess up again. No doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> He may be a lousy gift giver, but would bend over backward taking care of you with a big problem like a car repair, a move, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you need to talk to him about your disappointment and listen to his point of view.
> 
> You may find he is very willing to make up for the lousy Christmas you didn't get, if you tell him exactly what he needed to do to make you happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Just my totally biased opinion.




You are right in that there are some women who expect things like this without it being communicated either by them or to them. However, this man set the expectation that he was getting her a gift and they were going to have a nice evening together. She kept her end by getting him gifts and dressing up to have dinner with him. He dropped the ball here. My husband and I started officially dating two weeks before Christmas three years ago and he took me out a few days before Christmas, bought me a gift, and we had a wonderful evening. And he worked everyday up until Christmas. Sure, she could have offered to cook for him and whatnot, but he knew his work schedule and he knew Christmas was approaching. He had plenty of time to make sure things were ready. Typically when a woman is invited out she's not required to roll her up her sleeves and go to work. 

If this were me I would not talk to him for a few days. Yes they need to communicate, but she does not need to initiate this, he does. He already knows he screwed up. If he wants this to work out between them he'll contact her and make it right. If he doesn't then I would walk away. He's a grown man who knows how this game is played, not a teenager who still needs to learn the rules. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AVR1962

Evinrude58 said:


> AVR,
> 
> The guy worked long hours the day before. You said so. You obviously hadn't.
> 
> You had all these expectations that he cannot read your mind about and he therefore did not meet.
> 
> You base whether or not you're going to speak to him on unmet expectations. I think that is wrong.
> 
> Women, yes, I'm generalizing--- have all these bigtime expectations of men that they believe should constantly impress them with lavish gifts, fancy dinners, thightfullness, being perfectly dressed, etc etc. and when at least most of these expectations aren't met, women feel slighted.
> 
> Question: what kind of gf are YOU?
> 
> You knew he worked Christmas Eve. Did you consider cooking HIM a meal? Did you consider his needs may have just been laying down and snuggling with you and getting some rest?
> 
> Do you realize that your thoughtfulness of getting him "gifts" just pressured him to come up with some thoughtful present that most guys (I'm totally projecting, admittedly, in this whole post) don't have a clue what to get... that it is emotionally exhausting to have to fulfill all these unwritten, unknown expectations.
> 
> I oersonally see exactly what was likely going on in this guy's head:
> 
> Meeting expectations for all these people in his life, and meeting all his responsibilities with work, bills, friends, family, etc etc. I personally am always stressed out this time of year in having to meet those responsibilities. You'd be amazed at how differently some guys perception of Christmas is.
> 
> I will end by saying this:
> 
> He gave you a really nice compliment on your "understanding" of his not meeting the e oectations he suspected you had.
> He is going to mess up again. No doubt.
> 
> He may be a lousy gift giver, but would bend over backward taking care of you with a big problem like a car repair, a move, etc.
> 
> I think you need to talk to him about your disappointment and listen to his point of view.
> You may find he is very willing to make up for the lousy Christmas you didn't get, if you tell him exactly what he needed to do to make you happy.
> 
> Just my totally biased opinion.


Thanks for your insight and I see where you are coming from. One of the things that had not been mentioned in the original post was that he told me 3 different times that he was NOT going to work the 23, 24, 25 so he could spend time with me. His work he is the one that chooses what jobs he accepts and he did not come out and tell me he was working the 23. He text me on the 22 to tell me it is going to bed because he has to get up early. My birthday was the 23, that is why he said he was NOT going to work and then he did.

So part of this "expectations" thing came from his own lips!!!!!!!! Not something I dreamed up on my own wishful thinking. Why, when I have seen him dressed well (as he normally is) would I even begin to comprehend that it would be different on Christmas day, the biggest holiday of the year???? So it my dream world....my expectations??? Really?????

Maybe the guy just doesn't have money and he can't admit it to me!!!!


----------



## Marc878

He is who he is. IMO pretty ****ty behavior.

Anyone should know better. 

I'd dump his ass


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

AVR1962 said:


> Evinrude58 said:
> 
> 
> 
> AVR,
> 
> The guy worked long hours the day before. You said so. You obviously hadn't.
> 
> You had all these expectations that he cannot read your mind about and he therefore did not meet.
> 
> You base whether or not you're going to speak to him on unmet expectations. I think that is wrong.
> 
> Women, yes, I'm generalizing--- have all these bigtime expectations of men that they believe should constantly impress them with lavish gifts, fancy dinners, thightfullness, being perfectly dressed, etc etc. and when at least most of these expectations aren't met, women feel slighted.
> 
> Question: what kind of gf are YOU?
> 
> You knew he worked Christmas Eve. Did you consider cooking HIM a meal? Did you consider his needs may have just been laying down and snuggling with you and getting some rest?
> 
> Do you realize that your thoughtfulness of getting him "gifts" just pressured him to come up with some thoughtful present that most guys (I'm totally projecting, admittedly, in this whole post) don't have a clue what to get... that it is emotionally exhausting to have to fulfill all these unwritten, unknown expectations.
> 
> I oersonally see exactly what was likely going on in this guy's head:
> 
> Meeting expectations for all these people in his life, and meeting all his responsibilities with work, bills, friends, family, etc etc. I personally am always stressed out this time of year in having to meet those responsibilities. You'd be amazed at how differently some guys perception of Christmas is.
> 
> I will end by saying this:
> 
> He gave you a really nice compliment on your "understanding" of his not meeting the e oectations he suspected you had.
> He is going to mess up again. No doubt.
> 
> He may be a lousy gift giver, but would bend over backward taking care of you with a big problem like a car repair, a move, etc.
> 
> I think you need to talk to him about your disappointment and listen to his point of view.
> You may find he is very willing to make up for the lousy Christmas you didn't get, if you tell him exactly what he needed to do to make you happy.
> 
> Just my totally biased opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your insight and I see where you are coming from. One of the things that had not been mentioned in the original post was that he told me 3 different times that he was NOT going to work the 23, 24, 25 so he could spend time with me. His work he is the one that chooses what jobs he accepts and he did not come out and tell me he was working the 23. He text me on the 22 to tell me it is going to bed because he has to get up early. My birthday was the 23, that is why he said he was NOT going to work and then he did.
> 
> So part of this "expectations" thing came from his own lips!!!!!!!! Not something I dreamed up on my own wishful thinking. Why, when I have seen him dressed well (as he normally is) would I even begin to comprehend that it would be different on Christmas day, the biggest holiday of the year???? So it my dream world....my expectations??? Really?????
> 
> Maybe the guy just doesn't have money and he can't admit it to me!!!!
Click to expand...

Even a Christmas scrooge like me will say this is BS behavior. You can't just make a commitment to spend a day with a person and then back out for work of all things. Even with no money, you can make effort to spend time with the person. But I have a STRONG quality time love language. Gift giving doesn't even register for me. Fancy clothes, fancy elaborate gifts, these do nothing for me so I can explain then away with ease. Making a promise to spend the day with you and backing out for work is a no go for me and a sure fire way to royally piss me off. 

The only thing I can say in his favor at this point is that he cooked for you. For me personally, cooking for another person or people is my all time favorite thing to do and the best feeling of gift giving I can think of. He did that for you, so that would come from a very special place from me personally. 

Also, new years is the best hands down in my book. Just thought I would throw that out there. Not every one thinks christmas is so grand, so having an expectation that everyone should feel the same as you about christmas is a little unfair when and if that hasnt been voiced before. 

So it seems you are on the fence because you do really like him. Communicate your needs and displeasure with his actions. Also, apologize for assuming he should have automatically known after only three months of dating what those needs are and just how important they are to you. That is unfair. Not only to him, but to you as well. You will save yourself a lot of heartache and him as well. For example if you are a "receiving gifts" type love language, it would do me and you a lot of good to get that out of the way asap. Because I'm simply not compatible with someone like that and never will be and have no desire whatsoever to be with someone like that at all. So I would end it and we both move on. 

Maybe he is like me and is a little repulsed by these people. Or maybe he will find that he simply didn't know and is more than willing to step up and speak your love language. You and him cant ever know if you don't voice your needs. So you sit back in limbo wondering if each other will reach out and make the first move. Another heartbreaking spot to be in. SPEAK UP! Then move on, together or apart. That is the way to avoid heartache.


----------



## notmyrealname4

/


----------



## Blondilocks

Let's just declare his slob manner of dressing and the whole let-down a good old-fashioned 'crap' test. He could have been testing AVR to see if she was really into him or just wanting pressies. Problem is it backfired as he only illustrated that he had no regard for a holy day and no regard for his date. At his age, he knows better. 

When a person shows you who they are - believe them.


----------



## EllisRedding

IDK, sounds like quite a bit of miscommunication. OP, talk to him about it and see if you can get a better sense of what exactly he was thinking (if you do in fact have an interest in trying to keep this relationship going). Otherwise, if you are disappointed and feel this is who he is (which means you will only experience further disappointment) then just move on, only 3 months wasted so not horrible.


----------



## AVR1962

notmyrealname4 said:


> Is it the same guy? If it is, then you know this isn't the guy for you. You aren't on the same page aesthetically and romantically.
> 
> No-one's at fault, you aren't a match. Happens all the time.


This is not the same guy. I didn't go on the date with the man who invited me to the Golden Corral. He married a few months after he asked me out!!!!!


----------



## Andy1001

AVR1962 said:


> This is not the same guy. I didn't go on the date with the man who invited me to the Golden Corral. He married a few months after he asked me out!!!!!


Did they have the reception at Golden Corral?


----------



## AVR1962

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Even a Christmas scrooge like me will say this is BS behavior. You can't just make a commitment to spend a day with a person and then back out for work of all things. Even with no money, you can make effort to spend time with the person. But I have a STRONG quality time love language. Gift giving doesn't even register for me. Fancy clothes, fancy elaborate gifts, these do nothing for me so I can explain then away with ease. Making a promise to spend the day with you and backing out for work is a no go for me and a sure fire way to royally piss me off.
> 
> The only thing I can say in his favor at this point is that he cooked for you. For me personally, cooking for another person or people is my all time favorite thing to do and the best feeling of gift giving I can think of. He did that for you, so that would come from a very special place from me personally.
> 
> Also, new years is the best hands down in my book. Just thought I would throw that out there. Not every one thinks christmas is so grand, so having an expectation that everyone should feel the same as you about christmas is a little unfair when and if that hasnt been voiced before.
> 
> So it seems you are on the fence because you do really like him. Communicate your needs and displeasure with his actions. Also, apologize for assuming he should have automatically known after only three months of dating what those needs are and just how important they are to you. That is unfair. Not only to him, but to you as well. You will save yourself a lot of heartache and him as well. For example if you are a "receiving gifts" type love language, it would do me and you a lot of good to get that out of the way asap. Because I'm simply not compatible with someone like that and never will be and have no desire whatsoever to be with someone like that at all. So I would end it and we both move on.
> 
> Maybe he is like me and is a little repulsed by these people. Or maybe he will find that he simply didn't know and is more than willing to step up and speak your love language. You and him cant ever know if you don't voice your needs. So you sit back in limbo wondering if each other will reach out and make the first move. Another heartbreaking spot to be in. SPEAK UP! Then move on, together or apart. That is the way to avoid heartache.


He did contact me. I asked him if he tried the strawberries I left and he told me he had not and that everything was sitting where I left it. He told me he had not slept well the night before and was really tired Christmas day which explains now why he was napped out when I arrived. He told me he "screwed up" (his words) and said he would make that up to me. I know his daughter is not speaking to him and didn't contact him for Christmas so this might have been on his mind. Lesson learned on my part as far as communication and expectations.


----------



## toblerone

Christmas Disappointment is the name of my Wham! cover band.


----------



## AVR1962

Andy1001 said:


> Did they have the reception at Golden Corral?


I don't know if I had mentioned it in the original post but the Golden Corral guy had told me he was trying to lose a few pounds because he wanted to get into a bathing suit in the summer (which would have been last summer). I thought it was odd that he was asking me to a buffet when he was wanting to lose weight. Ha ha ha, little did I know the reason for losing weight was because he had is honeymoon planned to a beach area. They were married by the beach. What a guy!!!!! Only reason I know any of this is becasue he and I have a mutual friend and she was the one that told me he got married shortly after he asked me out. She sent me the pic of him and his new wife by the beach.


----------



## Akfranklin2014

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Talking out of both sides of your mouth. If giving a person a gift has nothing to do with how it makes you feel, why then does the joy of Christmas come from watching other people's faces light up at a gift you've given them?
> 
> For the record, I do participate. I just don't find near as much joy when giving and receiving a gift is forced upon you. I dont ever want gifts for Christmas or valentines, or my birthday or anything of the sort. It is nice to get a gift randomly, but that isn't necessary either. I can by my own stuff. My favorite gifts ive received have never been purchased.
> 
> 
> 
> So its not the thought that counts after all. You aren't convincing me very well here to care about holidays that force one to give gifts. If I give you something off of a list, how is that in any way thoughtful?
> 
> 
> 
> Well my son is a smarty pants and figured out that if he only asks Santa for one thing, he will get it. So he thought long and hard about what he really wanted from santa and thought about what he would just rather buy himself with Christmas money. He's pretty good with money for a 8 year old. Better than some 40 year old folks I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife knows my feelings on holidays. She still said "I do" and I still play along for hers and the kids sake with some of them. Although she knows my distaste in Christmas and Valentines day in particular.




I didn't say it had nothing to do with how it makes you feel. I said it doesn't have anything to do with how you feel about giving the gift. It is about you make them feel giving them a gift you thought about and know they will use. The phrase "its the thought that counts" was created you someone who didn't get the gift they wanted but didn't want to be rude about it. Giving a gift from a list shows them you care enough to listen to them and want them to have exactly what they want or need. I prefer getting gifts from a list and giving gifts from a list. First, it's less stressful. There are people you just never know what to buy for them and it's crazy wondering if they really like what you got them. Second, you know it's going to be used, played with, etc. Wouldn't you feel like you wasted your money if you bought something that wasn't on their list and they never picked it up, never used it? (Like when my mom bought me a large toy as a kid and all I wanted to do was play with the box!) Some people know each other well enough that they can buy whatever without a list or without being told and they get it right every time, but most do not just know like that. 

Your last paragraph says it all. You play along for their sake. And that's really what it's about. You suffer through it so they can enjoy their holidays. And that's admirable and great that you do that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

AVR1962 said:


> I don't know if I had mentioned it in the original post but the Golden Corral guy had told me he was trying to lose a few pounds because he wanted to get into a bathing suit in the summer (which would have been last summer). I thought it was odd that he was asking me to a buffet when he was wanting to lose weight. Ha ha ha, little did I know the reason for losing weight was because he had is honeymoon planned to a beach area. They were married by the beach. What a guy!!!!! Only reason I know any of this is becasue he and I have a mutual friend and she was the one that told me he got married shortly after he asked me out. She sent me the pic of him and his new wife by the beach.


Words fail me.


----------



## Akfranklin2014

AVR1962 said:


> I don't know if I had mentioned it in the original post but the Golden Corral guy had told me he was trying to lose a few pounds because he wanted to get into a bathing suit in the summer (which would have been last summer). I thought it was odd that he was asking me to a buffet when he was wanting to lose weight. Ha ha ha, little did I know the reason for losing weight was because he had is honeymoon planned to a beach area. They were married by the beach. What a guy!!!!! Only reason I know any of this is becasue he and I have a mutual friend and she was the one that told me he got married shortly after he asked me out. She sent me the pic of him and his new wife by the beach.




Wow...asking you out while all the while engaged and trying to lose weight for the wedding. Seems like you dodged a bullet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## john117

Andy1001 said:


> Did they have the reception at Golden Corral?


They actually do cater weddings... Scary thought.


----------



## VibrantWings

turnera said:


> The first year my H and I started dating, my birthday rolls around and he gives me nothing. I was pretty upset and asked him about it. He said that he didn't believe in 'having' to give people gifts, that he'd rather just 'make a random Tuesday wonderful' whenever he felt like it. (You can't tell ME what to do!)
> 
> So when his birthday rolled around six months later, I too, did nothing. He was astounded. Hurt. Angry. Incredulous. I just shrugged and said 'you don't believe in being forced to give presents just because society says so. So I'm just following your lead - you didn't me anything so I assumed you didn't want me to give YOU anything.'
> 
> He never ignored my birthday again.


It's amazing what can happen when you call someone on their bull****, eh?

Reminds me of how my guy used to hear me washing dishes, wait a while then come up to me and say "I was going to do those honey". The dishes sat there a while (I'd come home from work to them) so I suspected bull. One day he walked up, tried to give me the usual line, to which I said "Okay I just started so you can finish them, I have other jobs to do". The surprise...my goodness. Best part? not that he actually washed the dishes but rather that I didn't have to hear that pile of obvious bull**** ever again. 



Steve1000 said:


> If that's the case, I think he should have communicated that to her. Even if Christmas was a pretty simple holiday for me, I would still understand that many others feel it is an exciting and romantic time. Instead of Christmas, let's say that this was any other holiday such as Independence Day. If I had been dating a lady for three months and we had a date planned for her to come to my house, I would at least be well-groomed and dress up a little bit to show her that I was anticipating seeing her again.


I agree, you INVITE someone over on a holiday, you put some preparation into it. Sounds like he invited one person....I had a grand total of 12 over at my house this Christmas. I work a full time job plus do stuff on the side to earn/save money. I managed it all- dinner cooked, house clean, everyone got a present. 

He cant put on clean,decent clothes for his GF he invited over? Not much of an effort maker. People really do get 364 days to plan for one day a year. It's really that simple to me. 



EleGirl said:


> Whether he is a gift giver or not might not be the issue here. He told you he was getting your something. He engaged you in things like helping him find out the hours that stores were open. So he did things that built your anticipation.
> 
> My ex used to do this, often. Then he'd not have a gift for me. To me, the message was that in the end, he felt that is was not worth all the effort it would take to actually got to the store to get the gift. Of course there was much more to it that that since just about everything he did gave that message.
> 
> You really need to talk to him about this.


That's my take on it all....he SET HER UP by talking about a gift, numerous times. Engaging her into it by asking for "help" to buy her a gift. 
Bestest part is that he acted surprised when she showed up with gifts for him. 

He could have shopped on-line if his job doesn't allow him time to shop. Amazon is a wonderful thing with their two day delivery. You can even have wrapping paper and gift bags delivered to your front door. (Yes I have done this- it's real)
Working Christmas Eve? Why wait until Christmas Eve to shop especially when you've been blathering on about it for a while already? He didn't already KNOW he had to work on Christmas Eve? Most of the people I've known in my life are prepared for it. 
I don't have much love for bull**** at this stage in my life. I'm in my forties. A 61 year old man attempting to bull**** a 55 year old? She knows what is wrong with this scenario. 



Blondilocks said:


> Let's just declare his slob manner of dressing and the whole let-down a good old-fashioned 'crap' test. He could have been testing AVR to see if she was really into him or just wanting pressies. Problem is it backfired as he only illustrated that he had no regard for a holy day and no regard for his date. At his age, he knows better.
> 
> When a person shows you who they are - believe them.


I love you (or rather what I noted of your posts). I'd e-pursue you if we both weren't women and had real lives. Yes be afraid, very afraid    :toast: *bows*



Andy1001 said:


> Did they have the reception at Golden Corral?


My guy and I drive to a neighboring county to eat at Golden Corral sometimes. Whatsa matter with the GC?  

OP, the guy is a bull****ter. THAT's what's bothering you. You're hoping it ain't so but keep an eye out for the signs. I betcha it happens again in another situation. 

Like John said back in his post.....most older people that are single are single for good reason. Something I discovered when I jumped back into the dating pool in my thirties. Most of the good ones are taken...and kept.


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## Andy1001

john117 said:


> They actually do cater weddings... Scary thought.


I must mention that to my gf,I’m sure she’ll be delighted.


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## john117

Andy1001 said:


> I must mention that to my gf,I’m sure she’ll be delighted.


These guys are catering DD1's wedding:

https://www.joeskc.com/pages/gas-station-restaurant


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## Andy1001

john117 said:


> These guys are catering DD1's wedding:
> 
> https://www.joeskc.com/pages/gas-station-restaurant


I’ve just read their menu and I want to know two things.
What are burnt ends and why are they so popular?
What in hells name is Kansas caviar


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## Evinrude58

Akfranklin2014 said:


> You are right in that there are some women who expect things like this without it being communicated either by them or to them. However, this man set the expectation that he was getting her a gift and they were going to have a nice evening together. She kept her end by getting him gifts and dressing up to have dinner with him. He dropped the ball here. My husband and I started officially dating two weeks before Christmas three years ago and he took me out a few days before Christmas, bought me a gift, and we had a wonderful evening. And he worked everyday up until Christmas. Sure, she could have offered to cook for him and whatnot, but he knew his work schedule and he knew Christmas was approaching. He had plenty of time to make sure things were ready. Typically when a woman is invited out she's not required to roll her up her sleeves and go to work.
> 
> If this were me I would not talk to him for a few days. Yes they need to communicate, but she does not need to initiate this, he does. He already knows he screwed up. If he wants this to work out between them he'll contact her and make it right. If he doesn't then I would walk away. He's a grown man who knows how this game is played, not a teenager who still needs to learn the rules.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can't disagree with this.
He did invite her over. He didn't take care of business on the gift. She went to the trouble of getting gifts and dressing up for him.

I am NOT a good gift giver and a procrastinator.
I have been guilty of this. It doesn't make it right. It's poor behavior. She is right to be disappointed. 
The guy has said he screwed up. She will see how much he values her when he follows through on the make it up to her thing.

I bought my last gf a 2 carat diamond engagement ring, so I'm not totally selfish.... I'm just not good at picking out presents and procrastinate....
I'll say this, if a woman ever specifies how large of a diamond she wants for her engagement ring...,., I won't be getting a ring at all for her.
Damn, I'm stupid, and still laying in that damn thing.... lol rant over.

AVR.... see how hard he works to make it up to you.
And his daughter not speaking to him???? 
That's a bigass red flag there!! 

I've found it's best to move on fast before feelings get too deep, if too many red flags exist.


One thing I noticed that


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## Akfranklin2014

Evinrude58 said:


> I bought my last gf a 2 carat diamond engagement ring, so I'm not totally selfish.... I'm just not good at picking out presents and procrastinate....
> 
> I'll say this, if a woman ever specifies how large of a diamond she wants for her engagement ring...,., I won't be getting a ring at all for her.
> 
> Damn, I'm stupid, and still laying in that damn thing.... lol rant over.




It is appalling to see or hear a woman tell a man what size ring she wants. That just screams high maintenance and materialistic. I picked out several rings and had my husband narrow them down. Granted I knew I was getting one of them, but I didn’t know which one. And that was only because he asked me to make some selections. My husband has a knack for picking the most expensive ring. I showed him three groups of three rings without showing prices and each time he picked out the most expensive in the bunch. I like having a ring, but I’m not one to want to wear a large diamond out and about. People do stupid things for stupid reasons and I’m not getting clocked in the head just because somebody wants the diamond on my finger. If he’s going to spend a ton of money like that I’d rather it be on a house or a car, something we will have and make use of for a very long time. A big flashy ring is just showing off IMO and I can’t stand it. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

Akfranklin2014 said:


> It is appalling to see or hear a woman tell a man what size ring she wants. That just screams high maintenance and materialistic. I picked out several rings and had my husband narrow them down. Granted I knew I was getting one of them, but I didn’t know which one. And that was only because he asked me to make some selections. My husband has a knack for picking the most expensive ring. I showed him three groups of three rings without showing prices and each time he picked out the most expensive in the bunch. I like having a ring, but I’m not one to want to wear a large diamond out and about. People do stupid things for stupid reasons and I’m not getting clocked in the head just because somebody wants the diamond on my finger. If he’s going to spend a ton of money like that I’d rather it be on a house or a car, something we will have and make use of for a very long time. A big flashy ring is just showing off IMO and I can’t stand it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


She was incredibly high maintenance, but mostly I liked the maintaining. I was literally crazy about that woman. We had amazing days, and the nights were indescribable. She wasn't all that materialistic was the weird part, although she hoarded shoes like a maniac. She had some kind of psychological problem which made it impossible to get along with her... I still miss her, honestly. At the time, I thought since she worked in a wealthy environment, she didn't want to wear some dinky ring and be embarrassed. I didn't want her to be. But now, I realize it was one of her impossible poo tests, which she constantly dished out.
I doubt I'll ever buy an engagement ring again.
I'm like you--- I'll get you an engagement car or an engagement tool....
Engagement rings need to be a thing of the past. So should 30k weddings...., jmo


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## Akfranklin2014

Evinrude58 said:


> She was incredibly high maintenance, but mostly I liked the maintaining. I was literally crazy about that woman. We had amazing days, and the nights were indescribable. She wasn't all that materialistic was the weird part, although she hoarded shoes like a maniac. She had some kind of psychological problem which made it impossible to get along with her... I still miss her, honestly. At the time, I thought since she worked in a wealthy environment, she didn't want to wear some dinky ring and be embarrassed. I didn't want her to be. But now, I realize it was one of her impossible poo tests, which she constantly dished out.
> 
> I doubt I'll ever buy an engagement ring again.
> 
> I'm like you--- I'll get you an engagement car or an engagement tool....
> 
> Engagement rings need to be a thing of the past. So should 30k weddings...., jmo




Lol! If my husband had put a down payment on a house and asked me to marry him without a ring I would have said yes in a heartbeat. I’m a more practical person when it comes to things like that. Definitely did not spend anywhere near 30k on our wedding. His parents backyard, some food from a local BBQ place, about 25 of our closest friends, and his family. Our officiant, coordinator, and his niece as our DJ and it was a great party. We might have spend 5k if that. It was every bit as wonderful (and probably more so) than a huge expensive wedding. And with the number of people that showed up I’m glad we didn’t get some big fancy place lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

Akfranklin2014 said:


> Lol! If my husband had put a down payment on a house and asked me to marry him without a ring I would have said yes in a heartbeat. I’m a more practical person when it comes to things like that. Definitely did not spend anywhere near 30k on our wedding. His parents backyard, some food from a local BBQ place, about 25 of our closest friends, and his family. Our officiant, coordinator, and his niece as our DJ and it was a great party. We might have spend 5k if that. It was every bit as wonderful (and probably more so) than a huge expensive wedding. And with the number of people that showed up I’m glad we didn’t get some big fancy place lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I was supposed to get married in October last year but ended up calling off the wedding.
I had spent just under three hundred grand at that stage.
My fiancées ring is currently in a lake about an hours drive from Boston.


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## Akfranklin2014

Andy1001 said:


> I was supposed to get married in October last year but ended up calling off the wedding.
> 
> I had spent just under three hundred grand at that stage.
> 
> My fiancées ring is currently in a lake about an hours drive from Boston.




WHAT!???? Holy cow that’s a lot of money. That’s paying off a house for me!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating

AVR1962 said:


> Lesson learned on my part as far as communication and expectations.


I agree with Elegirl's post that suggested you talk about it. 

That communication and expectation goes both ways. Whether it's early days, or years into the relationship, the lessons are continual


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## sandcastle

Narcs are really good at telling you about the gift you are going to get-

That you never get.

OP-

Ever heard of a Red Flag?

You have a bunch that are at full mast.

Don't be desperate.


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## arbitrator

Andy1001 said:


> I was supposed to get married in October last year but ended up calling off the wedding.
> I had spent just under three hundred grand at that stage.
> My fiancées ring is currently in a lake about an hours drive from Boston.


*Good Lord! What I absolutely couldn’t do with just a meager portion of that!

Seriously, has anyone ever given just a scintilla of thought to the fact that the Christmas season is more about giving than it ever was receiving?

We should have been taught from life’s lessons that both “receiving” and “giving” are acts that strictly should come from ones heart!*


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## Andy1001

arbitrator said:


> *Good Lord! What I absolutely couldn’t do with just a meager portion of that!
> 
> Seriously, has anyone ever given just a scintilla of thought to the fact that the Christmas season is more about giving than it ever was receiving?
> 
> We should have been taught from life’s lessons that both “receiving” and “giving” are acts that strictly should come from ones heart!*


It’s all irrelevant anyway Arb.The thing is we had been apart for almost ten weeks and she left the ring along with a note on my car windscreen when I was walking early one morning beside the lake.I just threw the ring away in frustration because I was still in love with her.Then I read the note,it’s a pity I didn’t read it first,might have stopped me throwing the ring away.lol.
When it comes to giving gifts believe me I don’t fall short in that respect.I get into trouble with everyone for being too generous and have been restricted in what I am allowed spend on presents.


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## Blondilocks

AVR1962 said:


> He did contact me. I asked him if he tried the strawberries I left and he told me he had not and that everything was sitting where I left it. He told me he had not slept well the night before and was really tired Christmas day which explains now why he was napped out when I arrived. He told me he "screwed up" (his words) and said he would make that up to me. I know his daughter is not speaking to him and didn't contact him for Christmas so this might have been on his mind. Lesson learned on my part as far as communication and expectations.


Don't hold your breath waiting for him to make it up to you. I've found that people who utter those words usually figure just uttering the words fulfills that commitment.

As far as communication and expectations - what? Were you supposed to ask him if he would have the decency to shower and put on a decent pair of pants and a real shirt to celebrate CHRISTMAS?

AVR, I promise you that there is a man out there who will be an ideal mate for you. But, you have the tendency to ignore red flags and give these bozos way too much leeway. Remember being introduced to last boyfriend's closet on the first date?


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## john117

Andy1001 said:


> I’ve just read their menu and I want to know two things.
> What are burnt ends and why are they so popular?
> What in hells name is Kansas caviar


Burnt ends are parts of the brisket cooked longer, hence the name. Not my preference. Kansas caviar is a bean salad. 

Good and absurdly inexpensive food if you're ever in KC.


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## Andy1001

john117 said:


> Burnt ends are parts of the brisket cooked longer, hence the name. Not my preference. Kansas caviar is a bean salad.
> 
> Good and absurdly inexpensive food if you're ever in KC.


That smoked turkey looks delicious on the menu but I’m a long way from Kansas.
Do they deliver to MA I wonder.


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## arbitrator

john117 said:


> Burnt ends are parts of the brisket cooked longer, hence the name. Not my preference. Kansas caviar is a bean salad.
> 
> Good and absurdly inexpensive food if you're ever in KC.


*Down here in Texas, burnt ends of the brisket or the rib tips are deemed to be the absolute delicacy.

If you don’t believe me, see how much your bill will be at the BBQ joint upon checking out with them!.

Texas caviar is simply black eyed peas!*


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## tropicalbeachiwish

arbitrator said:


> *Down here in Texas, burnt ends of the brisket or the rib tips are deemed to be the absolute delicacy.
> 
> *


I LOVE burnt ends! It's definitely not an appetizing name for them, though.


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## Andy1001

arbitrator said:


> *Down here in Texas, burnt ends of the brisket or the rib tips are deemed to be the absolute delicacy.
> 
> If you don’t believe me, see how much your bill will be at the BBQ joint upon checking out with them!.
> 
> Texas caviar is simply black eyed peas!*


Arb I was on a cruise once and there was a cocktail hour where we got to meet the captain and hor d’oeuvres were being served.I am probably the most picky eater you will ever have heard of but for some stupid reason I decided to try caviar.I don’t eat any type of seafood whatsoever so when I put this stuff in my mouth I immediately knew I was in trouble.I drank a full cocktail to try and help the caviar down but to no avail.My girlfriend gave me some paper napkins and I ended up spitting out about fifty bucks worth of caviar.
To this day I swear I can still taste the slimy crap.


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## EllisRedding

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> I LOVE burnt ends! It's definitely not an appetizing name for them, though.


This is what I picture burnt ends looking like


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## arbitrator

Andy1001 said:


> Arb I was on a cruise once and there was a cocktail hour where we got to meet the captain and hor d’oeuvres were being served.I am probably the most picky eater you will ever have heard of but for some stupid reason I decided to try caviar.I don’t eat any type of seafood whatsoever so when I put this stuff in my mouth I immediately knew I was in trouble.I drank a full cocktail to try and help the caviar down but to no avail.My girlfriend gave me some paper napkins and I ended up spitting out about fifty bucks worth of caviar.
> To this day I swear I can still taste the slimy crap.


*Don’t feel picky, Andy! I don’t eat that crap either! Never have had an affinity to eat “fish eggs,” thank you!

Have had many offers to try it, but wouldn’t put them anywhere near my mouth!

Not for this ole boy!*


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## heartsbeating

Blondilocks said:


> Don't hold your breath waiting for him to make it up to you. I've found that people who utter those words usually figure just uttering the words fulfills that commitment.
> 
> As far as communication and expectations - what? Were you supposed to ask him if he would have the decency to shower and put on a decent pair of pants and a real shirt to celebrate CHRISTMAS?
> 
> AVR, I promise you that there is a man out there who will be an ideal mate for you. But, you have the tendency to ignore red flags and give these bozos way too much leeway. Remember being introduced to last boyfriend's closet on the first date?


It seems to me there’s opportunity for AVR to assert herself... to me, this has been a missing element in scenarios she’s shared. 

For what it’s worth AVR, I can be adaptable and flexible yet I also value people of their word, who are reliable and considerate. It depends on how you see a thing. If I tell someone I’ll be there for them - to the best of my ability, I am. If we’re at that place, then I do have a level of expectation of the relationship being reciprocal. 

Whether this is worth pursuing for you or not - asserting your needs and what you’re about to be true to yourself is important. You can be kindhearted and have needs.


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## turnera

AVR, I've had a really dysfunctional marriage. H loves me, but mentally twists me into a pretzel, and I spent most of it afraid to tell him anything, to avoid negative reactions. Rolling eyes, heavy sighs, sneering, guilting ("I should just drive off a bridge," "I'm just a paycheck to you and DD," etc.). 

Every time I've tried to make the marriage better, or just better myself, I've come to a conclusion: the ONE thing I need to do, to start this progress, is to SPEAK MY TRUTH. Nothing more, no expectations, no trying to 'win' or get something out of it, simply to inform. I'm doing better, bit by bit, and each time I say my truth, my fear of him recedes just a little. If nothing else, if we ever have a blowup, I'll be able to say 'I TOLD you that made me unhappy and you're doing it again.'


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## Married-Man

toblerone said:


> Christmas Disappointment is the name of my Wham! cover band.




A Wham! cover band? I need to see this. Link please.


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## FieryHairedLady

AVR1962 said:


> I don't know if I had mentioned it in the original post but the Golden Corral guy had told me he was trying to lose a few pounds because he wanted to get into a bathing suit in the summer (which would have been last summer). I thought it was odd that he was asking me to a buffet when he was wanting to lose weight. Ha ha ha, little did I know the reason for losing weight was because he had is honeymoon planned to a beach area. They were married by the beach. What a guy!!!!! Only reason I know any of this is becasue he and I have a mutual friend and she was the one that told me he got married shortly after he asked me out. She sent me the pic of him and his new wife by the beach.


Winner, winner. Chicken dinner! 

:|


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## MattMatt

EleGirl said:


> A lot of people work Christmas Eve and are still able to get their presents and other things for the holiday done. He has had days, even weeks to pick up a present. If he was not going to get her a present, he should not have been telling her that he was and involved her in planning his Christmas shopping.
> 
> 
> 
> If she had not done some nice things for him, I would agree that it's all about her. But she did. She got him presents. She took a shower and got dressed nicely because she respected him.
> 
> I wonder how he would have reacted if she had shown up wearing dirty, wrinkles sweats and a T-shirt? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> If she is going to continue to date, they do need to talk about this. But from my experience, a guy who does what he did is showing exactly who they are and showing how they will act on all holidays and special occasions... it's the old "I'm not going to buy you a gift just because it's a holiday."
> 
> But of course in my experience, men who are like this get quite upset if the woman forgets their holidays and birthdays.


Two years running, I had to work full eight hour shifts on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

And I was still able to buy Chirstmas presents for my wife, my MIL, my family members, etc.

And he could have used Amazon, too.


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## Talker67

john117 said:


> Burnt ends are parts of the brisket cooked longer, hence the name. Not my preference. Kansas caviar is a bean salad.
> 
> Good and absurdly inexpensive food if you're ever in KC.


burnt ends SUCK. and yes i DID try them in KC.
they are the ends of BBQ that was not prepared properly, and got all dried out. bletch.
go down to Tennessee and have the real thing, or maybe stop by pappy's smokehouse in St Louis!

and TEXAS? OMG, they do not even use the right meat, which has to be PORK!


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## Blondilocks

LOL This thread has turned into a debate on BBQ. That's what she gets for putting it in the men's section.


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## Andy1001

Blondilocks said:


> LOL This thread has turned into a debate on BBQ. That's what she gets for putting it in the men's section.


Don’t you know the quickest way to a mans heart is through his stomach?🍟🍔🥓🌮


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## notmyrealname4

/


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## notmyrealname4

.


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## toblerone

Andy1001 said:


> Don’t you know the quickest way to a mans heart is through his stomach?🍟🍔🥓🌮


Nah, she has to go a bit lower than that.


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## cma62

@AVR1962. I have read all of your threads.
Sorry to hear you endured so many years with a man that treated you with such disrespect.

At this point in your life with all you have been through in your 2 previous previous marriages, you shouldn’t settle for anything less than you are looking for in a man.
There should really have been no excuses for your BF to have acted the way he did with getting your hopes up about a gift and not following through.
He had plenty of time to get you a gift beforehand, and even if it’s not all about the gift....he didn’t seem too bothered to make an effort for you on Christmas Day with his appearance and being attentive.

This early on in the dating game he should be making maximum effort to keep you happy and feel appreciated.
If he is like this during the early days of dating, imagine the complacency after a few years into a relationship.
He’s showing you who he is.....take note.

Don’t settle....you deserve so much better.....and he’s out there....be patient....good things come to those who wait.


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## Evinrude58

cma62 said:


> @AVR1962. I have read all of your threads.
> Sorry to hear you endured so many years with a man that treated you with such disrespect.
> 
> At this point in your life with all you have been through in your 2 previous previous marriages, you shouldn’t settle for anything less than you are looking for in a man.
> There should really have been no excuses for your BF to have acted the way he did with getting your hopes up about a gift and not following through.
> He had plenty of time to get you a gift beforehand, and even if it’s not all about the gift....he didn’t seem too bothered to make an effort for you on Christmas Day with his appearance and being attentive.
> 
> This early on in the dating game he should be making maximum effort to keep you happy and feel appreciated.
> If he is like this during the early days of dating, imagine the complacency after a few years into a relationship.
> He’s showing you who he is.....take note.
> 
> Don’t settle....you deserve so much better.....and he’s out there....be patient....good things come to those who wait.


I agree, with one caveat:
He should not be making maximium effort to keep her happy and appreciated. If he did that, it would turn her off, or she'd treat him like a doormat. He should make a balanced effort. She feels his effort and her efforts were unbalanced, got pissed, and he's possibly history. Treating women properly in order to maintain their feelings is extremely tricky. Someone should start giving a course on this, but nobody truly understands the mind of a woman.


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## cma62

Evinrude58 said:


> Treating women properly in order to maintain their feelings is extremely tricky. Someone should start giving a course on this, but nobody truly understands the mind of a woman.


Ok yes ....balance of effort is more realistic. 
Some women’s minds are easier to understand than others......the clues are there to an intuitive man :grin2::


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## Akfranklin2014

cma62 said:


> Ok yes ....balance of effort is more realistic.
> 
> Some women’s minds are easier to understand than others......the clues are there to an intuitive man :grin2::




I’m a woman and to understand me you simply need to ask. If I know what I want or want to do, I’ll tell you. If you don’t like that idea or want to suggest an alternate, then tell me. Women can’t read minds either and some men do not voice what they want or want to do and communication breaks down. My husband drives me crazy with this. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## chillymorn69

A steak dinner with baked potato and wine is about the eaisest thing you could cook.

Well grill cheese might be eaiser.

No present on Christmas! 

Dressed like a bum when his woman comes over?

Run for the hills 3 strikes and your out! He showed all three on one night.


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## Evinrude58

cma62 said:


> Ok yes ....balance of effort is more realistic.
> Some women’s minds are easier to understand than others......the clues are there to an intuitive man :grin2::


Intuitive man?

Lol, please. That's like a Higgs boson or something... people claim they exist, but nobody has ever really seen one. 
I've heard they really do walk among us, but they dress nice and oddly enough--- prefer other men!!!

Maybe intuition turns a man off women?
Hmmm...
Someone is proud of their joke on mankind...

I want my damn rib back!
😋


----------

