# Is my wife lacking empathy? Or do I need to change?



## Dnabsuh (Mar 15, 2018)

Hello all,

I am going to try and be as evenhanded as possible, because I'm committed to understanding what I may be doing to the problems I am facing in my marriage and what I can do to change. Unfortunately, by definition this story is one-sided, so I'm not looking for sympathy, just insight from a different perspective on what might really be going on.

I feel as though my wife lacks empathy for me and it's hurting me.

This is strange because what I love about her is that she is very sensitive, caring and loving. So I'm wondering if maybe I'm interpreting things wrong.

We've been together over 10 years, got married very young and just now entered our 30's.

I've always felt that I'm the one who apologises. I feel as though she very rarely apologises for ANYTHING and when she HAS done something wrong, it's my responsibility to say it's ok, don't worry about it. If she ever admits any wrongdoing we usually spend more time talking about how it's not her fault, what I did to contribute and having to tell her that I'm not angry at her.

A few years ago, I left the (very controlling) religion we were raised in and all of our family still subscribe to. This particular religion shuns former members and even though I was able to maneuver things to avoid being "disfellowshipped" she took this very hard.

She said this was an act of betrayal and has said many times over the last 2 years that she feels she can't trust me, respect me or truly love me because I don't subscribe to her faith anymore. I know this isn't the whole truth, but it's what the religion influences her to think. 90% of the time, I can see (as she can too) that she does respect, trust and love me - but when she's upset she denies it because it salves her conscience with respect to her religion.

I love her very much. She is a wonderful mother, caring and devoted, smart, funny and incredibly likeable. Leaving the religion actually made that clearer to me, that I love the person, regardless of what she believes.

But our whole marriage, she has never been one to apologise first and seems comfortable only when it feels like I'm the one batting above my average OR I'm the one who's done something wrong and she's the one forgiving me.

(For at least 5 years, it was not uncommon for her to bring up the pain of me "dumping" her when we were 15. Even after we got back together and got married. We - both, to be fair - often joked about how I was so lucky she "gave me a second chance")

For the last few years it's been the religion. And to be fair, I can't describe how much it hurt her that I left the religion. Whether that's unreasonable or not, doesn't change how she feels about it.

Anyway, she recently took a short overseas holiday to see a friend (4 nights) while I stayed home with our two kids (boys, 3 and 6.)

I was happy she could go as I know how close she is with her friend and I love to see her do things that make her happy.

Before she left, she sent a number of lovely messages about what a good dad I am, thank you for letting me go and see my friend, my work colleagues can't believe I have such a good husband, etc.

The night she came back was great. We had literally the best sex I can remember - I remember saying so at the time.

The next day she was down again. We had a long chat about how hurt she was by what I'd done and that she was thinking about separation.

I asked her what happened while she was away? Why the sudden change? She said it was seeing her friends family all in the religion and having to come home to her reality and it hurting. I suggested marriage counselling and she refused (because they weren’t in her religion and – like she believed happened to me – could be influenced by Satan)

Long story short, I caught sight of a strange message to her friend and then another mentioning her feelings for another man (who lives with her friend overseas). I almost fell apart. I asked her again if something happened and she denied it again.

4 days later I told her I felt worthless and that I didn't deserve her and that if we DID separate, she would be able to find any husband she wanted, but I would be lonely forever. Then I told her I "knew about" this guy (by name.) I told her I didn't know exactly what happened but I knew something did.

If I hadn’t, I don’t know if I would have got the truth. I definitely know she wouldn’t have responded EMOTIONALLY, the way she did.

*

She told me she had developed a crush on this guy while she was over there and that she’d sent him a long rambling text message on the flight home. He had responded along the lines of “there’s a lot to take in there, let me think about it before I say something I’ll regret, or you get yourself into trouble”

*

He apparently then told the friend who called my wife the next day. My wife apparently went to her mum that day (i.e. the day after she got back, the day she was very upset that evening when I got home) and told her as well.

*

Nobody told her she should tell me. Her friend was saying that maybe separation wasn’t the worst thing in the world (it’s against the religion, fyi)

*

My wife was extremely apologetic. Except she did kind of say that if she hadn’t sent the text message it wouldn’t have been anything at all. She said the thing she was particularly sorry for was for closing herself off from me over the past few years, and also for not telling me about this guy – sorry for the pain I felt thinking maybe she HAD cheated on me.

*

She was so loving and connected, we had a lot of sex that weekend and felt deeply in love again.

*

A few days later, I started to feel blue. I had questions about what had happened. She’d told me the message she sent was deleted. Some of her stories about what happened didn’t add up – I had wanted to know when she started to feel things, whether she had been flirting with him. They had gone swimming in their underwear in the middle of the night at a nearby lake – she told me her and her friend made him turn around while they undressed and got in the water, did he REALLY not see her at all? Did she WANT him to see her?

*

I found out that in her search history, she had searched for “I’m in love with another man” while she was over there. I asked her some questions, hoping she would tell me herself (everything short of “did you Google anything unusual while you were over there?”) but she didn’t. Then I told her that I’d seen that and she said she didn’t feel it was important/didn’t remember – probably true, she didn’t follow any of the links on the page.

*

Things got a little worse. I was trying to be honest about my feeling upset, but kept stressing that I didn’t want her to feel bad. I wanted to talk proactively and constructively about it. I wanted to quash my concerns and talk through my feelings about it all so we could move forward.

*

She instead started getting angrier and saying that after feeling like she really COULD trust me, now she was right back to where she started because I wasn’t trusting HER. In my mind, she wasn’t able to empathise with the fact that I was having these unsettling feelings because she was too hurt by feeling like I wasn’t trusting her.

*

I spoke to her friend because I didn’t know what else to do. All that good progress we’d made was slipping through my fingers. I told her friend I didn’t know how to talk to her because she was so upset and angry at me for not being over it already. Her friend accidentally said that she had been flirting with the guy before she left (She had told me she definitely hadn’t) and that there was “a bit more” to the message she sent, than she had told me. She also said that the text message DID still exist – he had a copy.

*

I tried to tell my wife calmly that her friend had accidentally told me some things that didn’t add up and I wanted to sort them out. Unfortunately, she took it very badly. One of the things she said was “Why? What has [the friend] told you?” – I took this badly and said it shouldn’t matter. She took this as more lack of trust and started getting angry at me challenging her again. I wouldn’t have it and screamed at her when she said something about “all this happening to her” – it was happening to ME, I said.

*

By the next morning, she had got him to send her a copy of the message. She showed me the message but didn’t want to talk to me.

*

Since then, things cooled down considerably. I slowly, throughout the day and the next morning tried to tell her how much I loved her, how sorry I was for having these feelings, how I didn’t want to have them and I really wanted us to get back to where we had gotten to when she first told me. I told her I do trust her and she said she wanted me to stop thinking about what happened and stop asking about it and just focus on “us”

*

I said I would and she responded positively. Albeit again, I felt like none of that work ON bringing us back together was being done by her. She was responding more positively to my efforts, which I felt was good progress, but only when I pretended that I was completely uninterested in what had happened a few weeks ago or in the time since.

*

I asked for advice – some said you have to be honest and tell her how you feel, you can’t bottle it up. Others said you have to put your best foot forward and be the loving husband she wants you to be – she can’t open up until you are.

*

I decided to go the latter route, and haven’t mentioned it for a couple of days and have been doing things like lighting candles and giving her massages and telling her to have some “me” time while I feed, bathe and put the kids to bed, etc.

*

She has responded even more positively to this.

*

However, she again said in the last 24 hours something about “see, what do we need a counsellor for?” and “I’m done being on trial, when the real issue is so much bigger” (i.e. the fact that our relationship had become distant since I left the religion)

*

*

I’m not happy with the situation. I want her to want me to be OK with the situation and to want to talk about it for as long as it takes for me to ACTUALLY move past it. I want her to be strong enough to talk about it, without feeling like it’s an attack on her or putting her on trial. (I’ve told her this OVER and OVER, but whether I’m not convincing, or she’s not strong enough to BE convinced, I don’t know.)

*

I wonder if I can be strong enough, whether she will get to the point where she IS happy to talk about my feelings on the subject, without feeling like it’s all my fault anyway and my “spiritual” desertion trumps everything else anyway…

*

*

My question is, how can it be that my wife can be such a caring, loving, nurturing person, is making me feel like she’s incapable of seeing anything through someone else’s eyes?

*

Is there anything I can do to help her be more understanding of my feelings? To not automatically revert to defensive or angry reactions?

*

TL;DR – Guy thinks his wife never admits when she’s wrong. Wife did something (minor) and now demands husband be over it straight away, or else cannot bring herself to reconnect. Wife is otherwise very loving and caring person. What could cause guy to feel like she cannot empathise? What can guy do differently?

Thanks


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Dnabsuh said:


> Hello all,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 And what religion would this be?

We can address Satan, crushes and nighttime undie swimming in lakes later.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

So you intend to grovel at her feet until she forgives you for HER cheating.
Because she was cheating, and for her friend to even hint that there was contact before the trip tells me this was well planned and you were the fool at home looking after the children while your wife has her little affair.Thats why she was so happy before the trip,she was going to see her boyfriend.And as for her work colleagues,they think you are an idiot as does her friend.
Ask her how the senior members of her church look on a wife leaving her husband and children at home while she goes to see her **** buddy.
My friend you are being walked over,gaslighted,trickletruthed and cheated on and all you are doing is wringing your hands.
Take control of your life and let your wife know you are not plan B and if needed you will divorce her and expose her shenanigans to everyone in her family and church.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

OK you need understand right now no delusional thinking your wife had sex with this guy done deal.! Do not let her gaslight you or rug sweep this at all. the only thing you should do file for divorce.! Well just start from there. There’ll be more people coming along to give you very good advice do yourself a favor and do not second-guess.


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## Robbie1234 (Feb 8, 2017)

You have a wife who is openly cheating on you with her friends help and you apologize.Grow a pair of balls and tell this home where to go.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

I cannot speak to the empathy issue from what you have written thus far however I can say that your wife is a master at emotional manipulation. Saying that your "crime" is greater than her "crime" is manipulation through which she is avoiding being held accountable for her behavior. It's nonsense.

You need to call her out on her bull**** now.


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## Dnabsuh (Mar 15, 2018)

sandcastle said:


> And what religion would this be?
> 
> We can address Satan, crushes and nighttime undie swimming in lakes later.


Dunno that it really matters, but it's a religion a lot like the Mormon church. Slightly smaller, similar structure, similar levels of control and avoidance of "outside" influences.


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## Dnabsuh (Mar 15, 2018)

Wow. Not what I expected.

She didn't cheat. She developed a crush and texted the guy. It was a definite come on, but sent after she was on the plane on her way home.

I appreciate the genuineness of your responses that I should stand up for myself, etc. However don't misunderstand - I know I'm being walked all over. I know what she's doing isn't fair. But if I wanted sympathy, I'd have just gone to the pub.


What I wanted to know was whether there's a way to HELP HER OUT OF HER MANIPULATIVE BEHAVIOUR.

I don't want to "game" her or give her ultimatums. It would be easy to just dig my heels in and say "no, I'm not done talking about it and if you think that's your call, you've got no idea." And I would feel justified in doing it - it's just that the times I have done that, it hasn't helped her "snap out of it" - it's only pushed her further away.

Again, I want to help her get out of that mindset, not just demand it. I came to the Ladies Lounge because I thought maybe some women could identify with my wife and give me some thoughts or insight into why she might be acting out the way she is.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

She needs counselling first and foremost. She is blinded by this religion or is misinterpreting the religion. It needs to be a counsellor that has nothing to do with the religion and it also has to be a counsellor picked by her and someone she trusts.

This counsellor will hopefully work on the fact that she lives in a strange world and needs to start to really understand the world around her i.e. you, her marriage, her family, her church etc. Once she stops living in la la land then she needs work on boundaries. She needs to understand what boundaries are and how inappropriate it is for a wife to go swimming in her underwear with other men.

She also needs to understand that men and women more often than not cannot be friends and that attractions will develop!

And then after all this, she needs to see you for what you are - the good and the bad - and then have a proper discussion with you. She needs to understand why she married you (and I am praying that it wasn't under false pretenses in her head like when she was in la la land) and that she fell in love with you for some really good reasons.

That is the order in which she needs work - leave la la land (also church related) and enter real world with non-religious counselling; then some heavy work on boundaries and opposite sex friends; and finally a good reminder of who she married and why.

It may be that at the end of this, she still does not want to stay with you in which case you have done all you can.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You need to take your wife off of that pedestal.

Then, you need to treat her like an adult, not a fragile child. She has quite a few PD red flags, such as highs followed by lows (love/hate). She needs to learn to be apologetic and take responsibility. In these two ways, she clearly did not grow up. She needs to be held accountable. 

Her religion is a huge factor driving a wedge between her loyalty to family and to you.

I know dozens of people who are upstanding parents, workers, volunteers, they ALSO have huge personal issues, personality disorders, or are just generally ****heads and disrespectful to family or "friends." One does not preclude the other. In fact, people who KNOW they have issues often over compensate by being great in other ways so no one feels compelled to call them on their ****.

I think you're being abused. It is emotional and mental abuse and if nothing changes on your end, you will be dealing with it for a long time. It will grate on you (more than it is already) and destroy your self-esteem.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Has anyone informed her that she "left the religion" through her actions? You should find your anger.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Dnabsuh said:


> What I wanted to know was whether there's a way to HELP HER OUT OF HER MANIPULATIVE BEHAVIOUR.


(a) Don't reward it

(b) Counselling for her


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Dnabsuh said:


> *She didn't cheat*. She developed a crush and texted the guy. It was a definite come on, but sent after she was on the plane on her way home.


Respectfully.

Yes she did.

It's painfully clear that you are conflict avoidant, to the point that your marriage is about to rupture and you refuse to do anything about it.



Satya said:


> *You need to take your wife off of that pedestal.*
> 
> Then, you need to treat her like an adult, not a fragile child. She has quite a few PD red flags, such as highs followed by lows (love/hate). She needs to learn to be apologetic and take responsibility. In these two ways, she clearly did not grow up. She needs to be held accountable.
> 
> ...


QFT


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Cluster B Personality Disorders for $200


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

I think the best way to help your wife out of treating you poorly is to set boundaries regarding what you are willing to put up with. You have to be prepared to take action if those boundaries are crossed. Honestly a lot of women want boundaries and they don't want to be able to walk all over their men. That makes you look weak in their eyes and they won't respect you. I'm saying that as a woman and a wife. 

I was trying to think of a politically correct way to say this but I can't so I'll just come out and say it. There was a time in our marriage that I was doing frequent Girls Night Out with my friends. This was before we had kids and also during a time when he was away for work a lot. Out of the blue he just said no more GNOs. It was because of some things that were happening with my friends but not with me at all. Apparently he got wind of it but he never discussed what he knew he just said his boundary. So that was the end of that type of bounding with my friends.

Did I like it? No. Was it controlling? Maybe. But I honestly can say that it made me feel that he cared enough to protect the marriage and I respected him for that.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

john117 said:


> Cluster B Personality Disorders for $200


I know you have more experience with mental disorders than I do but she just does not seem like someone with a mental issue. She just seems like someone who has her eyes on someone else and is gaslighting her husband to make him think he is the problem.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

snerg said:


> Respectfully.
> 
> Yes she did.



Don't be afraid to call it what it is. That's step one.


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

My guess is your wife is checking out of the marriage and is enjoying the attention from this other man. Because this type of thing went on in my own marriage without an physical affair, I bristle at the replies that definitively declare physical cheating. But...make no mistake, she is emotionally cheating, and working her way toward an affair. Her anger/moodiness/aggressiveness are classic deflective techniques because you are on the scent and getting closer to discovering her real motives.

IMO, when a spouse starts to engage with others outside the marriage (and in this case apparently has the support of friends in the deceit), there is no point in trying to hold on. The titillation involved in this type of situation is a drug, and your wife is quickly becoming addicted. I don't believe you can convince a person in this situation of the harm they are doing, and frankly, they don't seem to care because they feel they need or are owed the excitement. And there are few who lie more than a spouse who is cheating or attempting to cheat. You have to think of her as a drug addict. My advice is based on the old adage of "if you love someone, let them go, etc": Let her go. If she comes back, it is because she wants to. If she does not, better to know now than to put the entire family through the turmoil of you begging her to be your wife while she is pretending she wants to be married to you but resisting it with every sneaky means she can think of.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

thefam said:


> I know you have more experience with mental disorders than I do but she just does not seem like someone with a mental issue. She just seems like someone who has her eyes on someone else and is gaslighting her husband to make him think he is the problem.


True. But a lot of the behaviors she's exhibiting are a bit too close to Cluster B symptoms to be ignored.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I think a valid question is is your wife selfish? I think she’s very selfish, she’s made this all about her. To me that clearly means she’s not experiencing empathy, at least not where you’re concerned.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Satya said:


> You need to take your wife off of that pedestal.
> 
> Then, you need to treat her like an adult, not a fragile child. She has quite a few PD red flags, such as highs followed by lows (love/hate). She needs to learn to be apologetic and take responsibility. In these two ways, she clearly did not grow up. She needs to be held accountable.
> 
> Her religion is a huge factor driving a wedge between her loyalty to family and to you.



I think it's entirely possible that her immature behaviors, lack of boundaries, blame-shifting, and refusal to accept responsibility or apologize for wrongdoing, are all being _directly_ driven by her upbringing and adherence to her religion. A fairly common theme among very conservative religious sects is that they view, and encourage/train/raise women to view themselves, as incapable of thinking or behaving in a normal adult manner without the guidance of men. It's tough to require blind admiration, abject devotion, and unquestioned obedience on one hand, and also expect independent thought, acceptance of personal responsibility, and strong personal boundaries on the other. A woman being truly responsible for anything is an affront to the natural order, wherein her father/husband is the unquestioned leader and authority. So, naturally, all responsibility falls to the man of the house. If she has no agency, then she has no responsibility and anything that goes wrong is therefore a result of her husband's faulty leadership. While our more secular eyes might see potential PD behaviors, this sort of woman is the ideal in many extremely conservative religious communities. 

The problem is that the OP has left that religion, so she doesn't really view him as deserving of that leadership position anymore. She hasn't changed, she still wants to be the sort of docile, obedient, childlike, wife she was raised to accept being as perfectly normal, even greatly desired. She has no desire to control herself or be responsible for herself. That's his job. However, she no longer sees him as a proper, Godly, leader of the household. Worse, he may actually be trying to get her to change herself in ways that she sees as counter to her religion. So, she's apparently searching for someone who better fits the mold of the strong head of household who encourages her to be the woman she was raised to see as right and proper. 

This may simply not be salvageable.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Simply advice-
GROW EM GRAB EM OR CUT THEM OFF
AND GIVE THEM TO HER
She cheated either emotionally (Crush on him)
more likely Physically. Her friend knows this
the other guy knows this the only one who 
does not is YOU! I think this whole trip was 
planned out from beginning to end. She clearly 
got excited before the trip (Sexually) and after
(SEXUALLY) I wonder why. What does her religion
say about this ? Do not trust a word she or her 
friend say.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

OP correct me if I am wrong?
Don't all religions consider lusting 
after someone (CRUSH ON HIM)
emotional affair at least a sin. 
Does her friend view this as a sin,
since they are I assume members of the 
same church. What about the other man 
view on what she/he is doing?


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Sir, you're wife is emotionally blackmailing you, and you're doing everything for her so you can get back to that wonderful night when she returned.. She got you hooked on amazing sex, probably learned a thing or two overseas and now you're like a puppy because you want it to be like it was.

This is the exact thing drug dealer do to their clients, givem enough to get them hook amd they have a customer for life, or until death rather said.

Wake up.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

sandcastle said:


> And what religion would this be?
> 
> We can address Satan, crushes and nighttime undie swimming in lakes later.


>:rofl:

I think I need some popcorn.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Your wife isn't lacking in empathy. She is lacking in morals, boundaries and faithfulness.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She did or didn’t know this guy before she left and how do you know? How far away is this foreign country? 

Basically she fell in love within three days of leaving home? She disrobed in his presence. I’m sure he couldn't see through wet underwear.

I agree wth what was written before. Your not to be given much respect because your a heretic to her. What religion says it’s ok to mess around while married?

Your only way of knowing they didn’t sleep together is by what she tells you and her friend tells you? Yet she was professing her love to him after four days? Dude


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

This started way before the trip. She went to stay with friends and this guy just happens to live with them and is in the religion you shunned? What an unfortunate coincidence (or was it a pre-planned set up?) Investigate and play dumb and you'll get your answer.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

How very convenient for her, and she is using extreme religion as a weapon to beat you over the head. She has lied like a rug. There was something that she is not saying, and I suggest that before doing anything, you inform her that you suspect that she is lying, and before you are willing to commit to anything, she must undergo a polygraph. In the meantime, kick her the f*ck out of your house. Send her home to her mother, and tell her that if she makes a big deal of things, you will just go to her church and tell them that she is an adultress. That should tie a can to her tail.

You need to give her a taste of shock and awe. She thinks you are a doormat. Doormats will trip you if you are not paying attention. Take charge of this, otherwise she will roll over you.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

She's at least emotionally involved with another man and you're apologizing.

You have a bad case of doormatitus there bud


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

OP, your W blaming you is similar to kids making a problem everyone's fault but their own.

Point #2 I have a dog that begs food. If I tell the dog no (I show it an open empty hand) and later give the dog a treat, the dog just learned to put more effort in getting what it wants. Your W is putting more effort in making some of her problems into your problems because you cave in to her resentments and anger.

Shunning from Wikipedia
Bahá'í faith (if people challenges to legitimacy of Bahá'í leadership)
Catholicism (excommunication vitandi)
Jehovah's Witnesses (refer to as "disfellowshipping")
Judiasm (Ultra-Orthodox practice Cherem)
Church of Scientology (asks its members to quit all communication with Suppressive Persons, those whom the Church deems antagonistic to Scientology).


I was a member of a fundamental Baptist church and believed certain things that I have since made a 180 degree turn. When a person is "in the club and a card cardring member," group think takes over and influences how people think and act if they look at things with critical thinking based on facts. The person that relies on facts VS church beliefs soon gets left out of the inner circle. BTDT and I am better off for giving up my membership in that little club.


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## Dnabsuh (Mar 15, 2018)

Rowan said:


> I think it's entirely possible that her immature behaviors, lack of boundaries, blame-shifting, and refusal to accept responsibility or apologize for wrongdoing, are all being _directly_ driven by her upbringing and adherence to her religion. A fairly common theme among very conservative religious sects is that they view, and encourage/train/raise women to view themselves, as incapable of thinking or behaving in a normal adult manner without the guidance of men. It's tough to require blind admiration, abject devotion, and unquestioned obedience on one hand, and also expect independent thought, acceptance of personal responsibility, and strong personal boundaries on the other. A woman being truly responsible for anything is an affront to the natural order, wherein her father/husband is the unquestioned leader and authority. So, naturally, all responsibility falls to the man of the house. If she has no agency, then she has no responsibility and anything that goes wrong is therefore a result of her husband's faulty leadership. While our more secular eyes might see potential PD behaviors, this sort of woman is the ideal in many extremely conservative religious communities.
> 
> The problem is that the OP has left that religion, so she doesn't really view him as deserving of that leadership position anymore. She hasn't changed, she still wants to be the sort of docile, obedient, childlike, wife she was raised to accept being as perfectly normal, even greatly desired. She has no desire to control herself or be responsible for herself. That's his job. However, she no longer sees him as a proper, Godly, leader of the household. Worse, he may actually be trying to get her to change herself in ways that she sees as counter to her religion. So, she's apparently searching for someone who better fits the mold of the strong head of household who encourages her to be the woman she was raised to see as right and proper.
> 
> This may simply not be salvageable.


You nailed it, as did handy.

Those things about headship are absolutely factors and although I didn't go into that part of it, that is similar to how she's admitted feeling.

I looked at Cluster B personality disorders and you could make a case for Borderline PD, but whether that's just confirmation bias or not, I don't know. It's pretty tenuous at best anyway, hell, I could say i fit into one of those diagnoses if I wanted to.


One thing I'm not sure about is that she's accused me of "letting loose" whenever she DOES try to apologise for anything. 

Yesterday we had a blow up and she apologised for something she said, and I accepted it and told her it was ok. But she also claimed she wasn't ignoring my calls that day, but in admitting to the first thing, inadvertantly admitted to ignoring my calls too. So I called her out on that part, she got defensive and started blaming me again, and saying she had nothing to apologise for.

I'm wondering whether it's my fault for not just taking the small win and ignoring the other thing, in hopes of encouraging improved communication... Or if I was right to say, no, you can't just decide which things you're going to be honest or open about...

The first option would have improved the immediate situation, but I'm not sure if it would've helped the long term situation...

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

What she is doing is not your fault unless you consider
letting her get away with blaming you for everything 
she has and is doing. What is your plan for moving forward?
How long do you plan on going through this crap?
Regardless she did feel emotionally attracted to another man.
That sounds like emotional affair to me. Next time it may 
be physical cheating.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Dnabsuh said:


> You nailed it, as did handy.
> 
> Those things about headship are absolutely factors and although I didn't go into that part of it, that is similar to how she's admitted feeling.
> 
> ...



For SURE- Borderline- but which one? Hubby or wife?
Both?
Maybe schizoid.
Bipolar 1
Bipolar 2.

How bout just plain, straight up depraved.
Only your hairdresser knows for sure.


Has you wife been to SeaOrg.
That should get her shipshape.


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## Dnabsuh (Mar 15, 2018)

sandcastle said:


> For SURE- Borderline- but which one? Hubby or wife?
> Both?
> Maybe schizoid.
> Bipolar 1
> ...


True. As for sea org, wrong religion, but there's not too many others on the list.

I could see some of the Borderline PD traits in myself, or even histrionic ones. Whether it's pathological or just that the traits themselves are exaggerations of normal human expression, I'm not qualified to say.

Like I said, if I just wanted to blow off steam and get sympathy, I'd probably choose a different Forum to do that (or at least a more succinct way of doing it)


I wonder how the comments would differ if it was her posting? What would she say? How would people react.

Perhaps they would say that *I'M* the one with trust issues, or control issues or jealousy issues. I don't know....


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Dnabsuh said:


> True. As for sea org, wrong religion, but there's not too many others on the list.
> 
> I could see some of the Borderline PD traits in myself, or even histrionic ones. Whether it's pathological or just that the traits themselves are exaggerations of normal human expression, I'm not qualified to say.
> 
> ...


I think it is well-accepted that if you can see some of the BPD traits in yourself, you don't suffer from BPD. People who have serious issues in that department will NEVER admit to themselves that they have those traits, and will go ballistic if anyone suggests that they do.

From your account here, you sound pretty normal, and she sounds very disturbed.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

tech-novelist said:


> I think it is well-accepted that if you can see some of the BPD traits in yourself, you don't suffer from BPD. People who have serious issues in that department will NEVER admit to themselves that they have those traits, and will go ballistic if anyone suggests that they do.
> 
> From your account here, you sound pretty normal, and she sounds very disturbed.


Actually- tech... 
Victims of Borderline SO, Parents etc take on the traits and need to detox once they escape their tormentor.

The fact that ANYONE has the balls to diagnose serious and life destroying personality disorders on a Marriage website is SHOCKING.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Dnabsuh said:


> True. As for sea org, wrong religion, but there's not too many others on the list.
> 
> I could see some of the Borderline PD traits in myself, or even histrionic ones. Whether it's pathological or just that the traits themselves are exaggerations of normal human expression, I'm not qualified to say.
> 
> ...


Only YOU know how sick your marriage is. And the religion and where someone dips in the lake in their Victoria Secrets thong and push-up bra with someone other than you - go on your scale of - 
Oh hell no.
Nope! Satan and the JW's or the Mennonites or whatever brand of religious pay no attention to MY depravity- hi! Jim Jones!

Really- you need to make a decision for yourself. 

We all get your uh- wife is the only woman on the planet that gets to legally

TORMENT YOU.

So- go be tormented and make it a down home , off the ranch love story.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

OP-

If you are at all being mindeffed by a religion that your wife uses against you to isolate you and can go skinny dipping with ANYONE OTHER THAN YOU...

You are being abused.
If you are telling the truth- you need to GTFO.


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