# Trying to recover from affair - feelings of inadequacy



## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Mine is a long, maybe familiar story, but since everyone's story is different, I will try to hit the highlights.

Met my wife in high school. Dated 5 years, married almost 18 years now. We love each other very much. But............

Background:

Married years 1-10 in love, wonderful, 2 kids. Nothing's ever perfect, but we're like 2 peas in a pod. Sex life is up and down.

Years 11-13, she takes a very stressful job and has trouble coping with the stress. She starts to withdraw, medicate with alcohol. Sex life goes in the toilet. I start to withdraw more. Don't know how to help her, so we begin to disconnect.

Years 14-15 of marriage, wife becomes deeply depressed. Struggled with depression before, but never this bad. Bedridden outside of work. Becomes alcoholic. Won't take medication. I try to help, but eventually I get worn down by this and completely disconnect and focus on myself working out, bettering myself, taking care of our kids and the house, etc....neglect her, but at the same time, she seems ok with this, as long as I'm not asking her to do the laundry, dishes or take her "medication" (alcohol) away....

Year 16, she comes out of this depression and starts working out, feeling better about herself, posting pretty pictures of herself on her profile on an online game she plays on her phone. Gets attention of lots of guys on there (she is stunning in her profile pictures). Meets one guy in particular and starts an emotional affair with him, sexts with him and sends dozens of R-rated pictures of herself to him. Never meets him in person. Also has similar encounters with others, but nothing like this one guy. He's THE ONE.

Coinciding with the beginning of this affair, she starts telling me she needs space, loves me but not in love with me anymore, wants to separate. I counter with "if you want to separate, I want a divorce". At the time, I was not interested in anything but fixing our marriage. Certainly not sitting around wondering if she's having an affair, or dating myself. At that point, I'm still very much in love with her, hoping she will feel better soon and we can be happy again.

Well eventually, I find out about the affair and tell her to stop or I am divorcing her. She says she will. Continues anyway trying to hide it from me. I can sense something is still not right, and find out a couple months later she has carried on with him, and it has only intensified with the content of the pictures, progressing to X-rated pics of herself, and X-rated sexting.

I tell her it's over, and consult with lawyers. Ready to start the process of divorce. She says she will stop, please don't end our marriage, she loves me, she's sorry, etc...... I agree to stay, and work on things, but find out a few months later she is back at it again. At this point, it's been going on almost a year. SHe tells me she's in love with him and that she knows her affair isn't real life, that their relationship isn't real, but doesn't know how to turn off her feelings for this guy. I tell her it's over and don't feel romantic toward her at all anymore. At this point, I am feeling very numb toward her.

But I do still love her and care about her as a person. Almost like I would my own daughter. I feel like she is mainly hurting herself with all this stuff, because this guy she's having an affair with clearly has no intentions of ever meeting her, and is just using her for porn at this point. And I am pretty sure at this point, for her, it has all been one big ego trip gone wrong. So I am ready to break ties and move on from her.

While she is prepping to move out, I go on a couple of dates and actually meet someone with whom I "click". Not romantically, but personality wise. I start talking to this person on the phone, and my wife finds out.

Well this changes everything. My wife becomes a wreck. She wants to work on our marriage, crying, sobbing, loves me, in love with me, don't want to move out anymore, etc.....I tell her I don't feel comfortable being her husband. Basically, the trust is not there for us to be married anymore. She tells me there is nothing to live for anymore, I am the perfect man.

I think about it for a couple of days while she lies in bed sobbing the worst sobbing I've ever heard from her. I decide to give her another chance........

Fast forward to today (years 17-18):

We have been through several counselors, she even moved out for 6 months and we "dated" to see if we could reconcile. Living together wasn't working as I was having a hard time with all that she did. It also took some time for her to see that online flirting was harmful to a marriage. We've had several close calls of ending it over the last year. She also at one point revealed she was sexually abused as a child and teen before I met her (first time she revealed this to me in 23 years of knowing her). But eventually we worked through it all*. And today we are mostly happily married. She says she is in love with me. She made a horrible mistake. She has gone clean and sober (for the most part....she still occasionally has a glass of wine or two). There is no evidence and no "gut feeling" that she is doing anything behind my back (for that entire year, I had a "gut feeling" based on her behavior, etc....if you've been through it, you know what I mean). Bottom line is, this marriage is probably saved.

* - Except for one thing.............

Thanks to all the cloud sharing technology provided by apple (photo stream, iPhoto, etc...), I got to see probably 90% of what she gave him as far as photos of herself, chats of theirs she screen shot so she could save for herself....also saw their chats and pics sent when I broke into her phone. She was very sexual. Very, very, very sexual with him. With her words, with her pictures, etc....

She is not like that with me. Sexting and sending pics had never been a part of our relationship (although a few years ago, I did try to do that with her, and she showed little to no interest).

I told her this bothers me, and makes me feel like this is a sham, and that I don't feel like I really even compare to that guy on the Internet she loved so much. She said it is different because I'm here, right in front of her, and the online thing was....well, different in that there was always this "longing" for something that was never fulfilled. She said it would have been different had she met him (other than the fact that had she done that, we would certainly be divorced). I told her it makes me feel like he was her true soulmate that she could be so intimate with him, but not with me. Now logically, I know this not to be true, because she and I have shared a life, had kids, been through 22 years of life, mostly as a happy couple. But logic is very weak in the face of emotion as we all well know.

So she sent me a couple of pictures of herself (T and A), for which I am grateful, BUT, it's nothing like what she gave this guy in loads. And, this may seem silly, but I don't like having to ask for it. He never had to.

Adding to this, she seems to have absolutely no libido. Maybe once per month. With this guy she was engaging him at least weekly.

I am having a hell of a time dealing with this. We will go sometimes a couple of weeks with no intimacy, and that's when these thoughts really kick into my head. When we are intimate, it's not as big a problem. But as I said, she has low libido with me.

When/if I bring it up, it turns into a huge fight there with her accusing me of caring about nothing but myself. She's too tired to fight about it anymore.

She says over and over again that she wants this marriage to work, and she wants us to be happy together. But we eventually keep ending up at this point where I feel like I'm living in the shadow of her great love. I feel like I'm the one with the problem here.

We have seen several counselors together and seperate, like I said, and the general advice is "Get over it", or "That was about her, not about you" or "You have to forget about it.....try breathing through it until the thought passes"


So my questions are:

Am I overreacting?
How can I cope with these feelings better?
Am I being unfair to her?
Do I want too much...i.e.., is it just unrealistic for a husband to have what an affair partner is given? Like, is a husband one thing, and a lover a different thing?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

powerlloyd said:


> Mine is a long, maybe familiar story, but since everyone's story is different, I will try to hit the highlights.
> 
> Met my wife in high school. Dated 5 years, married almost 18 years now. We love each other very much. But............
> 
> ...


Serial cheater for a wife? That's a no brainer.

Divorce.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

powerlloyd said:


> So my questions are:
> 
> Am I overreacting?


No. However, I would question whether you're really in this reconciliation.



> How can I cope with these feelings better?


You need to realize that your wife was (and perhaps is) far more sexually attracted to her fantasy of this other guy than she ever was sexually attracted to you.

Here's the thing. You can't beat this, because it wasn't real. It was all make-believe. It's like trying to be more sexy than a guy in a romance novel. 

You can't do it.

What you can realize is that there is an unexplored part of her sexuality that is there, but you don't have access to. If you want it, she has to be willing to give it to you, and tell you how.

If I were you, and if I wanted it, I would pay very, very close attention to what he did to trigger that kind of response in her.

And be willing to take the risk that you're just not that guy for your wife, or that it was her depression/alcoholism that gave her access to that.


> Am I being unfair to her?


I don't think so.

I think you need to be clear with her if you're in this or not. 


> Do I want too much...i.e.., is it just unrealistic for a husband to have what an affair partner is given? Like, is a husband one thing, and a lover a different thing?


What she had with him has nothing to do with you. Compounded by the fact that it wasn't real.

What is it specifically that you want? Are you attracted to that side of your wife that she showed this other guy?

Or are you just competing with this other guy?


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Serial cheater for a wife? That's a no brainer.
> 
> Divorce.


What do you mean by serial? It was a year long thing, but I guess I count that as a single occurrence.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

powerlloyd said:


> What do you mean by serial? It was a year long thing, but I guess I count that as a single occurrence.


Multiple guys. Didn't stop when you confronted, despite promising to do so. And _still_ didn't stop upon being confronted again.

And again.

And again.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

marduk said:


> No. However, I would question whether you're really in this reconciliation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Am I in this reconciliation? I thought I was. Maybe I'm not as much as I should be to make it work. I would like to be. Is it my attitude or expectations that make you question it?

To hear her tell the story, she was attracted to him because he was (as far as the Internet knows) a big bruiser type of guy, like Biff, and she felt like he could protect her better than I could. From what impending danger, I am not certain. And neither was she. She also said he was willing to have rough sex with her if they ever met, like with violence, and apparently that was some sort of fantasy of hers. She would never want that with someone who loves her (i.e., me)...that was apparently not part of the fantasy. So this means she knew the guy didn't love her, and she admitted as much. She pursued him completely. He could take or leave her at any time. She admitted all of this to me.

I was attracted to that passion I saw from her. You have to realize that I had watched her be bedridden for at least a year with depression. The truth is, she seemed so alive pursuing this guy. That "aliveness" was attractive. And yes, the sexual part of that was very attractive.

I guess you could say I feel competitive. That is my nature. But you have made some good points for me to think about. I know I can't compete with a fantasy.

But you're making this point about "being in it". Does that mean I have to surrender something that I am not surrendering to?


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## Kitt (Jun 3, 2015)

Intimacy is a huge part of marriage...if it was given so freely to another person, then the trust is gone. You may have forgiven her, which was your choice, but you will not forget. It will be the insidious poison that spills into your mind every time she doesn't do exactly what you envision as being intimate and open and loving and warm. Honestly, this sounds like a bad Lifetime movie and you are the person left holding everything together. As someone who endured an abusive childhood and neglect, I can honestly tell you that I acted out with my husband....anger issues....maybe a bit of self loathing, but I got help with it and cleaned it up as quickly as I could without resorting to breaking my marriage vows. My husband is not responsible for my life, I am. You aren't responsible for her life, she is. To use her past sexual abuse as an excuse to behave poorly and to break your marriage vows is untenable and I feel very sad for you that she felt she could do that to you and stay. I have no doubt that my husband would have seen it wasn't healthy for him and was enabling to me and would have filed for divorce. She may have externally cleaned up, but if she doesn't understand how this destroyed trust and has done all she can to build the intimacy and sexual openness that you need, she hasn't done what she needs to do. It doesn't matter if she views it differently, her being open with you sexually and doing as you ask...even prolonging it or exaggerating it would be a small sacrifice considering she cheated on you with some nobody on the Internet, lied and did it again. Yes, Gus is right, she is a serial cheater because if she did this with this guy even after getting caught and not stopping, she probably did it with other men too randomly but didn't care enough emotionally about them to record it or keep it. Not to mention the guys you knew about. 
I'm sorry this happened to you...but don't allow this to be your life. One thing I am certain of is that love would have made sure she didn't seek validation outside of you. I'm not sure if recovery is possible if she isn't willing to make concessions to do what you need to heal.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Multiple guys. Didn't stop when you confronted, despite promising to do so. And _still_ didn't stop upon being confronted again.
> 
> And again.
> 
> And again.


I see. Point taken


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

powerlloyd said:


> Am I in this reconciliation? I thought I was. Maybe I'm not as much as I should be to make it work. I would like to be. Is it my attitude or expectations that make you question it?
> 
> To hear her tell the story, she was attracted to him because he was (as far as the Internet knows) a big bruiser type of guy, like Biff, and she felt like he could protect her better than I could. From what impending danger, I am not certain. And neither was she. She also said he was willing to have rough sex with her if they ever met, like with violence, and apparently that was some sort of fantasy of hers. She would never want that with someone who loves her (i.e., me)...that was apparently not part of the fantasy. So this means she knew the guy didn't love her, and she admitted as much. She pursued him completely. He could take or leave her at any time. She admitted all of this to me.
> 
> ...


You can't reconcile your marriage alone. It takes two. She has to be willing to put in the work that allows you to heal from the trauma of her betrayal, and if she's not giving you what you need so that you can do that, then she's not fully participating in the reconciliation of your marriage. I mean... Hell, it sounds like she's just "there". Is that enough for you? Doesn't sound like it.

It's not about whether or not you're "in it"... it's about whether or not she's "in it".

And, from where I'm sitting, she's not.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

By being in it, if you got everything you wanted, would you be happy?

Or do you just want her to jump through hoops and you're gone anyway?

I wouldn't judge you for wanting to leave. She freaking stomped on any trust and intimacy you may have had. 

But if you want access to this part of her sexuality, you need to trigger this part of her. 

Which means you need to talk to her about what triggered it, and she needs to be in a place where she would be open with you about it. 

Your other path is to try to reverse engineer it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

It seems from your posts that you came REALLY close to ending the M over this a couple of times, but let the devastation you saw her in dissuade you from following through with it.

Makes sense, you truly loved your wife and probably still do, despite what she was done, and you were witnessing her in more pain than you had ever seen before.

However, that doesn't change this fact about YOURSELF.....maybe it was simply a dealbreaker for you and there is just no way back to the M for you after what she has done.

Only you can really do the self-reflection to know if this is true....it is a personal and unique decision process for every person who has the misfortune to end up where you are now.

Best of luck....I hope you can find a path that leads to the best outcome for you and your WW.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

I think you need to harden your heart and move towards divorcing. Your current marriage is over. The person you thought your wife was, is gone. Maybe after divorce you can date and fall in love with the person your wife is now. Or, better yet, regain your sense of self, and find somebody new. As I see it, your wife only wants to stay and work on the marriage, out of fear. Not truth and honesty.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

marduk said:


> By being in it, if you got everything you wanted, would you be happy?
> 
> Or do you just want her to jump through hoops and you're gone anyway?
> 
> ...


There are really only 2 methods that might assist w/ that...

1. Trial and error (books NMMNG and MMSLP could _possibly_ help w/ this)

2. Read through all of her correspondence w/ other men ("the one" in particular) in order to extract whatever insight he might find there, which might break him.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> There are really only 2 methods that might assist w/ that...
> 
> 1. Trial and error (books NMMNG and MMSLP could _possibly_ help w/ this)
> 
> 2. Read through all of her correspondence w/ other men ("the one" in particular) in order to extract whatever insight he might find there, which might break him.


I'm pointing at #2.

Which might be really ego-bruising.

And dangerous, given that she was depressed when wanting this. It's entirely possible that she no longer does.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Kitt said:


> She may have externally cleaned up, but if she doesn't understand how this destroyed trust and has done all she can to build the intimacy and sexual openness that you need, she hasn't done what she needs to do. *It doesn't matter if she views it differently, her being open with you sexually and doing as you ask...even prolonging it or exaggerating it would be a small sacrifice considering she cheated on you* with some nobody on the Internet, lied and did it again.


Exactly how I see this.

Given the severity of her betrayal, it would be hard enough to R with her if she acted perfectly. I think the least you should expect is to have sex regularly, with her initiating a good portion of the time, and at least "attempting" to open up sexually.

You don't need another reason to tell her you made a mistake in agreeing to R, but you have one.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Sorry to have you here - here is my tuppence worth of thoughts on this:



After your wife went through her depression she recovered and during this recovery she discovered some of her sexuality - something that she was not comfortable discussing with you for whatever reason (Madonna/***** syndrome).


She engaged in a pure fantasy of a relationship with someone who was rough, not in love with her, animalistic and this allowed her to release her inner sexual desires and fantasies, hence the extremely sexual pictures and exchanges unprompted.


When she faced the very real threat of you leaving, she snapped out of it (eventually, after some false starts) even though doing this was like to trying to go cold turkey on a drug she had become addicted to (hence her thinking she was in love with him).


Now you feel inadequate but should not in my opinion. As others have said you cannot compete with a fantasy.


Instead you need to become part of the fantasy whether its with role playing or rough sex or whatever - you need to break down the barrier where she feels she has to be "good and respectable" with you (the Madonna) but wild with someone anonymous or unknown (the *****). Work on your sexual life even if its with a sex counsellor and I feel you will be on track for an even better life together going forward.


I would not read anything more into this other than her unleashing her latent sexuality - and it could be a very good thing for you both.


Now go surprise her, tie her up and ravage her time and time again!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It strikes me that you have a reverse madonna/wh0re thing going on here. Your wife probably loves you and the life she has with you but the things she fantasizes about she's not going to do with you. She's simply not that into you, and you know it which is why you want what she gave the other guy. 

But even if you get her to do it it's not gong to make her be into you. 

It also seems like you stayed because your wife cried a lot. But understand that she was crying for the loss of her lifestyle and maybe on some level the loss of your presence. 

But not because she's into. Make no mistake, your wife has a libido...... you just don't trigger it. If you can live with it that's up to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Kitt said:


> Intimacy is a huge part of marriage...if it was given so freely to another person, then the trust is gone. You may have forgiven her, which was your choice, but you will not forget. It will be the insidious poison that spills into your mind every time she doesn't do exactly what you envision as being intimate and open and loving and warm. Honestly, this sounds like a bad Lifetime movie and you are the person left holding everything together. As someone who endured an abusive childhood and neglect, I can honestly tell you that I acted out with my husband....anger issues....maybe a bit of self loathing, but I got help with it and cleaned it up as quickly as I could without resorting to breaking my marriage vows. My husband is not responsible for my life, I am. You aren't responsible for her life, she is. To use her past sexual abuse as an excuse to behave poorly and to break your marriage vows is untenable and I feel very sad for you that she felt she could do that to you and stay. I have no doubt that my husband would have seen it wasn't healthy for him and was enabling to me and would have filed for divorce. She may have externally cleaned up, but if she doesn't understand how this destroyed trust and has done all she can to build the intimacy and sexual openness that you need, she hasn't done what she needs to do. It doesn't matter if she views it differently, her being open with you sexually and doing as you ask...even prolonging it or exaggerating it would be a small sacrifice considering she cheated on you with some nobody on the Internet, lied and did it again. Yes, Gus is right, she is a serial cheater because if she did this with this guy even after getting caught and not stopping, she probably did it with other men too randomly but didn't care enough emotionally about them to record it or keep it. Not to mention the guys you knew about.
> I'm sorry this happened to you...but don't allow this to be your life. One thing I am certain of is that love would have made sure she didn't seek validation outside of you. I'm not sure if recovery is possible if she isn't willing to make concessions to do what you need to heal.


Thanks for your perspective, and I am sorry you were abused. I'm happy to hear you could work through things for both you and your husbands sake. 

For us, the abuse part came up as part of an explanation for why she has difficulty with intimacy in real life, in the aftermath of the affair. One reason it's been difficult to reconcile was that for the first few months, she seemed to want us to have a sexless marriage. That brought us to the brink, and she revealed the abuse in that context. It's something she's never addressed. It wasn't used as an xcuse for the affair, more so why it's difficult for her to be sexual with me, being a flesh and blood person in real life, and her apparent lack of libido


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

powerlloyd said:


> Thanks for your perspective, and I am sorry you were abused. I'm happy to hear you could work through things for both you and your husbands sake.
> 
> For us, the abuse part came up as part of an explanation for why she has difficulty with intimacy in real life, in the aftermath of the affair. One reason it's been difficult to reconcile was that for the first few months, she seemed to want us to have a sexless marriage. That brought us to the brink, and she revealed the abuse in that context. It's something she's never addressed. It wasn't used as an xcuse for the affair, more so why it's difficult for her to be sexual with me, being a flesh and blood person in real life, and her apparent lack of libido


At the risk of being called out for being an utter and complete assh*le, have you considered the possibility that she may have been lying to you about having been abused?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> It strikes me that you have a reverse madonna/wh0re thing going on here. Your wife probably loves you and the life she has with you but the things she fantasizes about she's not going to do with you. She's simply not that into you, and you know it which is why you want what she gave the other guy.
> 
> But even if you get her to do it it's not gong to make her be into you.
> 
> ...


Wow. Harsh.

And, more than likely, 100% correct.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> It strikes me that you have a reverse madonna/wh0re thing going on here. Your wife probably loves you and the life she has with you but the things she fantasizes about she's not going to do with you. She's simply not that into you, and you know it which is why you want what she gave the other guy.
> 
> But even if you get her to do it it's not gong to make her be into you.
> 
> ...


Risk averse...as expected. 

But also -probably -very accurate. Heart Breaking for the guy...tough love type raw...but accurate non the less.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> It strikes me that you have a *reverse madonna/wh0re* thing going on here. Your wife probably loves you and the life she has with you but the things she fantasizes about she's not going to do with you. She's simply not that into you, and you know it which is why you want what she gave the other guy.
> 
> But even if you get her to do it it's not gong to make her be into you.
> 
> ...



This ^^^ 10x

When you married her, you took the place of her father. She doesnt want to have sex with her father.

Damn Catholicism...(yeah...sue me if you don't like it...)

Catholicism fvcks up the heads of more women than any other denomination next to Baptists. Teaching them that sex is for procreation only and not enjoyment or bonding with their husbands. Couple this with her sexual abuse and you have one seriously broken human being. 

Your wife has had so much negative crap imprinted into her brain that she does not know what the hell she wants. 

But her actions speak clearly...she does not see you as a lover. She sees you as a friend and provider and the father of her kids and...well...that's about it. The other man was a lover. You are not her lover. 

I'm sorry brother, but I say shoot this crippled horse in the head and put it out of its misery. It is not going to get better.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

People easily have fantasies that they know are fantasies, i.e., they realize that if they were truly faced with the fantasy becoming real, they would not like it at all. Look at all the violent RPG's out there. Would the people playing them really enjoy doing this stuff IRL? Would they truly want to shoot hundreds of people or crash their cars at high speed? We can laugh and say 'absolutely,' but we know inside that we wouldn't really want the actual experience. This is why we choose the virtual experience instead of the real one. This is why the industries that offer the virtual experience are so profitable.

Your WW indulged in the fantasy like so many others, yes, but she crossed the line by doing this with a real partner. Thus, the affair. I would bet the farm that the fire of her A would have burned out quickly if she actually came face to face with her OM. I don't believe that she would actually do the sexual things in reality that she acted out in her A with him. 

She needs serious help, not just for this, but for so much of what you have described about her life. This is for and about her. It is not about you and should not make you feel inadequate. No one can live up to someone else's fantasy & often we don't even want people to try.

For your part, you have been living with a cluster*ck of a marriage for a long time now. Your RL, your reality, includes a marriage in a questionable reconciliation with a WW who doesn't partner with you in a healthy sexual way. This alone should be where you draw the line now, in my opinion. She is broken and has been breaking you. The type of A she had and the way she is treating you sexually are indicators of this. 

You don't have to just sit and take this, however. You can sort things out reasonably - i.e., this is not about you being inadequate in some way, but about her being dysfunctional - and then insist that she either work constructively on her issues, including your sex life, or you are out.

This is really on her, not you. She is the one who is inadequate. She has not been a real wife to you in a long time.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

When infidelity strikes a marriage the marriage as it was constituted is over. When you reconcile you really aren't reconciling the old marriage. You are building an entirely new marriage on top of the wreckage of the old one. In your case you cannot wrap your mind around the two women you are attached to. The old wife who probably never really existed in the first place. She was a product of your perceptions viewed through rose colored glasses. The second woman is the sexually liberated passionate carefree woman who your wife became whilst engaged in an affair. The truth is neither woman is real. Or possibly both of them are to a certain degree. It is my opinion that you will never "have" the affair woman. That woman was as much of a fantasy as the man she was sexting with. Your wife as she is currently constituted is a product of her experiences with you and her place in your marriage/family. This is the woman you will always have. She cannot alter her memories and experiences. With another man she might be more sexual, but not you. She might be able to try to add more variety and openness to her sexuality. She might be able but it does not sound like she is willing. You need to decide whether what you have is enough for you or not. If not then end the marriage and find a woman more palatable to you and more responsive to your needs.

One other thing I'd like to mention. At one point you compare her to a daughter in the way feel. I think you should delve a little deeper into that feeling and maybe you will find a little illumination into your relationship with your wife.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

powerlloyd said:


> Am I in this reconciliation? I thought I was. Maybe I'm not as much as I should be to make it work. I would like to be. Is it my attitude or expectations that make you question it?
> 
> To hear her tell the story, *she was attracted to him because he was (as far as the Internet knows) a big bruiser type of guy, like Biff, and she felt like he could protect her better than I could. From what impending danger, I am not certain. And neither was she. She also said he was willing to have rough sex with her if they ever met, like with violence, and apparently that was some sort of fantasy of hers. She would never want that with someone who loves her* (i.e., me)...that was apparently not part of the fantasy. So this means she knew the guy didn't love her, and she admitted as much. She pursued him completely. He could take or leave her at any time. She admitted all of this to me.
> 
> ...


From reading so many threads on Loveshack's OW section, I seen that once a woman gives herself to another man, whether real or virtual, the woman rewrites the marriage history in her head. The fact that the sex has dried up is a sub conscious way of staying loyal to her man. Having sex with the husband becomes repulsive and feels like she's betraying her "man." 

One thing that can help is to become the man she would have an affair with. In your case it will be more difficult because she only has an online relation so she her imagination fills in the holes that turn him into a super stud. Meanwhile, your just the boring husband that she has to face life's mundane middle class problems with. 

Work on your body by hitting the gym hard. Up your style. After 20 + years you may have let yourself go.
Turn that completely around. Not saying to turn metro-sexual but just be the best man you can be. Once she starts seeing you pull signs of attraction from other woman, her instinct to fight for you will kick in. Side benefit is that your self confidence will soar, which all woman find attractive. So if she doesn't up her game to match yours, you'll be ready to meet other woman.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

jsmart said:


> The fact that the sex has dried up is a sub conscious way of staying loyal to her man. Having sex with the husband becomes repulsive and feels like she's betraying her "man."


When you put on your reality glasses, you see that the sex usually dries up before the affair. Sex with the husband is oftentimes repulsive before the OM enters the picture.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

powerlloyd said:


> We have seen several counselors together and seperate, like I said, and the general advice is "Get over it", or "That was about her, not about you" or "You have to forget about it.....try breathing through it until the thought passes"


Whaaat?! What of kind of conselors are these?

Yes I would sort of, just maybe, kind of understand if you where having these thoughts after a while but you wife was giving the business twice a day and geniunely wnting to hump your brains out.

Again would slightly understand but still feelings of indequency after a such a torrid affair aren't something you can just forget about or get over...what kind of dime store psychologists are you guys seeing?

If there is one thing they are right about, it's that this is and always has been about her. From the drinking, to the affair, to now. You're being led by the nose, rarely are you in control, you dance to her tune when she decides she's had enough she cries a little and back you fall in line again.

You say you're happy now but you clearly aren't. She knows you will not divorce so knowing that what's her incentive to change?

And seeing how "sexual" she got with this other guy, how long before she wants to explore that side again but this time give herself over physically?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You really should consider this period as a probationary one and be willing to pull the plug on the marriage if you see it going nowhere as far as sexual intimacy.

Nobody signs unto a romantic and committed relationship like marriage only to become nothing more than brother and sister.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> It strikes me that you have a reverse madonna/wh0re thing going on here. Your wife probably loves you and the life she has with you but the things she fantasizes about she's not going to do with you. She's simply not that into you, and you know it which is why you want what she gave the other guy.
> 
> But even if you get her to do it it's not gong to make her be into you.
> 
> ...


absolutely spot on.

Sorry OP.

Time to accept the above as your life or speak to a lawyer.

Your wife is not remorseful and is not into you either.

This will just keep repeating. Maybe she will get better at hiding it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> When you put on your reality glasses, you see that the sex usually dries up before the affair. Sex with the husband is oftentimes repulsive before the OM enters the picture.


In the blame the husband for her affair world that is true but I've found that many WW are just re-writing marital history when they claim that they have a loveless marriage. Sure the butter flies are gone but when you're decades into your marriage, the relationship should be able to survive dry spells but commitment is a dirty word today.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

It seems like no one is taking into consideration the past years of drinking and depression.. It just seems like we are only talking about this online incident with her.. 

The counselors and therapist need to understand that you have had a HUGE disconnect for YEARS from her.. That you were basically raising another kid.. Your wife needs to grasp this too..

You basically got beat up over many years and now they want you to just get over it overnight or the next few weeks or months ? 

Sex only _*maybe*_ once a month ? No fvcking way...

After all of that sh!t she put you through ? She should be fvcking you every night and twice on saturday... She should be bringing friends over for you to fvck for all the sh!t you put up with her.. 

All I can tell you is I have tried to fix stuff with my Ex wife.. In the end after all the Sh!t I put up with her and never cheated on her.. She kicked me to the curb in the end.. She wasted years of my life, Ruined me emotionally, destroyed our family, our friendship and our kids.. 

And for what ? For another swinging d!ck.. 

She would have a very, very hard time getting custody of the kids with all her issues.. 

I don't know if you could get any child support out of her though.. But I tell you if she does anything else to you later on, you will be kicking yourself in the head for not building a new relationship up with that girl you clicked those years ago..

Hindsight being 20/20 for me I tell you I would move on.. Trust me I felt like you did with my Ex wife.. In the end it just bites you in the A$$..


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP hasn't been back, but I'll throw this out there. Probably won't sit well with a lot of guys but I don't think it's that unusual for women to have fantasies that they don't share with their husbands. It can be difficult to look a real person that you live with and see every day and reveal your dark side, so to speak. 

I know I'm as open with my hb as I've been with any man but I'd be lying if I said he knew every last thing about me. .... I'm extremely private on many levels. But I can say that I've not done anything with another man that I either haven't done or been willing to do with hubby.

And I could see how revealing yourself to a stranger could be easier in some ways. .... you don't know this person and don't care what they think of you. I imagine men could feel like this too.

But I'd never engage and make plans with some d0uchebag online and it would certainly never occur to me that said d0uche could protect me. Said d0uche is probably a creep. That suggests deeper issues in your relationship and how she views you. And the lack of sex supports that she doesn't get hot for you. Whatever private thoughts I have my hb still turns me on. .... that's not the case here. 

I don't know what to suggest because this type of dynamic is very difficult to break. And even if she was abused, I was too, and I don't see what that has to do with her giving it up to some strange creep that's going to have violent sex with her. That would actually require extreme vulnerability that you typically wouldn't see in an abuse victim. 

But maybe others might disagree with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She isn't remorseful or that interested in R if she isn't worshipping at the altar of your groin.

She says she wants to make it work after destroying your marriage for gameboy? Bvllshyt!

Actions speak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> You can't reconcile your marriage alone. It takes two. She has to be willing to put in the work that allows you to heal from the trauma of her betrayal, and if she's not giving you what you need so that you can do that, then she's not fully participating in the reconciliation of your marriage. I mean... Hell, it sounds like she's just "there". Is that enough for you? Doesn't sound like it.
> 
> It's not about whether or not you're "in it"... it's about whether or not she's "in it".
> 
> And, from where I'm sitting, she's not.


She is easily stressed....by work, by anxiety, and by this whole thing. I don't think the lack of giving is because of anything more than that at this point. Exhaustion from being stressed...by everything. But the bottom line is like you say: is what she has to give enough for me? Don't know yet. The original questions I have are about how I feel about this, how I feel about myself in this context, i.e., can I live with being what I am in this relationship given the past. If she was someone I just met without that one year of our history, I wouldn't complain.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

powerlloyd said:


> She is easily stressed....by work, by anxiety, and by this whole thing. I don't think the lack of giving is because of anything more than that at this point. Exhaustion from being stressed...by everything.


 Well if she that easily stressed then you still have a problem. If stress caused her to go off the deep end with good old "Big and burly Biff" then what makes you think that she wont go looking for "Biff 2.0" if the stress gets to her.

Look the only stress she's under is that she got caught and now that after this whatever you want to call it with this guy is over, you better remember that this guy has a bunch of nasty pictures your thoughtless wife never thought about when she sent them and they can or may pop up somewhere and the problem rears it's ugly head again. Not to mention what are you going to do if she gets stressed again?

Boils down to this. What is your gut telling you. If you feel that you got the short end of the stick and your dwelling on this every day then maybe it's time you seek a lawyer.

She broke the trust how many times now since she lied to you about stopping then starting again how many times and then when she knows that her life line is about to be cut when you started looking elsewhere was when she finally started to wise up and put an effort in repairing the marriage and now that you called of the dogs so to speak, she starts arguing with you about it.

You better do some serious soul searching and think id this is what your want to have for the rest of your life.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

PL my man, as long as you realize you're the first thing she forgets about when she gets easily stressed, who's to say you're wrong. It just sounds to me like the honeymoon ended a good while back.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

So much more to being a Dom than sex. Without the emotional foundation, the physical D/S will fall apart in short order.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

marduk said:


> By being in it, if you got everything you wanted, would you be happy?
> 
> Or do you just want her to jump through hoops and you're gone anyway?
> 
> ...


Other than this one thing, the relationship is great. I feel very loved by her. So I feel like the options are:

1) Drop everything, halt the progress we have made thus far and divorce her
2) Wait for her to have that passion for me where I feel like I'm not standing in the shadow of a fantasy.
3) Brain wash myself to never think about it again

The thing about waiting for her to have passion for me....I have seen it from her, it comes and goes, probably just like every woman who has been married as long as we have. Verbally she says I'm handsome sexy and all that. The reality is, I'm not a slouch. I have no reason to feel inadequate. Logically I know this. I am a competitive powerlifter, and keep myself in good shape. I'm muscular and well groomed. I have a stable career, never been unemployed and earn a 6 figure salary. I have tattoos, which she loves. When I was "on the market", I was deemed a "good catch" by plenty of women. I have no reason to feel threatened by some slob on the Internet. My wife sees all of that. The year she went off the reservation, she refers to as her being "sick". She readily admits she was crazy. She is remorseful. She is sad about all of it. She has a hard time forgiving herself. Her decision to actually act on her fantasy with someone else? I would chalk that up to the combination of our deep, chronic disconnect, her fear of confrontation, her depression, and her choice of meds. Not a good formula for good decision making. That is NOT to excuse what she did, merely my view of it and a logical understanding.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere. Unfortunately, what I saw was an unrealistic scenario unfold out of her head, and onto the Internet, directed at some random dumbbum. As lifeistooshort points out, not every wife tells their husband everything, including their inner most fantasies. How would every husband react to knowing their wife fantasizes about men that aren't them? Probably everyone knows it happens and blows it off. Now imagine you saw it, witnessed in the raw, in her own words and pictures......not so easy to blow off.

That's pretty much it. And in the wake of all that, the devestation it caused, she made the enemy sex and intimacy. She was disgusted by it. We are trying to navigate through that to something healthy. My problem is, I feel I may screw it up by wanting something that isn't realistic, now that I've seen what's in her head, the thing that most wives probably keep to themselves.

As for all the other stuff, she is getting help with all of it. She doesn't drink anymore. She is exercising. She is eating better, taking vitamins advised by her doctor for deficiencies revealed in bloodwork....i.e., she is taking the steps toward getting healthy.

And I will say this as well. Coming on here and bringing this out for everyone to weigh in on has been extremely helpful, moreso than any counseling we've had together. BobSimmons asked about them, they have been terrible from my perspective. We've been through 3 together, and 1 individually a piece. About 25% of it has been helpful in my opinion. There are a lot diverse opinions and ideas on here, and reading them has helped filled in the other 75%.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Please do not pick door number 3. What you should be doing is continue to put yourself out there, be married but act single...not to date but to do things that makes you happy, and do it by yourself or with friends....the more she sees that you can be happy without her the more she will realize how much harder she has to work...stress or no stress this is for you not for her....


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> At the risk of being called out for being an utter and complete assh*le, have you considered the possibility that she may have been lying to you about having been abused?


I would put the probability of that in the <1% range. She has no reason at this point to lie to me. We've been separated already, we could do it again, no sweat. She lived in her own apartment for 6 months. There is nothing keeping her with me other than how she feels about me. While her job is stressful, she makes plenty of money on her own. She doesn't need the money I make to sustain her current lifestyle. She's also beautiful enough that she'd have no problem finding another dude to have a relationship with. On top of that, I would be able to tell if she was just playing me. I knew the whole year she was playing me when it was happening. I never trusted that she wasn't after the first time I found out, she gave plenty of behavioral cues, so I knew. That's the "gut feeling" I mentioned earlier. The reason it went on so long "without me knowing" was it took a while for me to find the physical evidence each time. You can't "know" something for sure until there is physical proof in your hands. I had to do my due diligence to snoop, learn passwords and whatnot, and that wasn't instantaneous. Now, that isn't an issue. I have free access to everything I want, anytime I want in that regard.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Sometimes to save your marriage, you have to be ready to walk away.

If she does not change, you will not get over this mess.

So if she is not willing or able to change, you may have to find happiness with someone else.

There is too much damage to ignore.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

As far as you go, you are doing a lot of things right. Buy the book linked to below, MMSLP, its about the female male dynamic. The dance so to speak. Its available to download also at amazon. At least go read some of the reviews.

You haven't found a good counselor yet. I'm also guessing your wife hasn't found a good one too..

It sounds like you also need a good counslore too. But, HE needs to be experienced with infidelity AND PTSD.

I think with MMSLP you will be able to regain the attraction of your wife. Its all about your actions and her reactions.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> It strikes me that you have a reverse madonna/wh0re thing going on here. Your wife probably loves you and the life she has with you but the things she fantasizes about she's not going to do with you. She's simply not that into you, and you know it which is why you want what she gave the other guy.
> 
> But even if you get her to do it it's not gong to make her be into you.
> 
> ...


I have asserted several times to her that she is not into me. Her response is: "That was a fantasy made up in my head. It was not real. You are a real life person. It is different." I'm paraphrasing. But really, I think every husband wants the high octane version of their wife's fantasy played out for them. Like you pointed out though, it's not always revealed to the husband, for whatever reason. Maybe it's embarrassing or whatever. In her case, her fantasy involved being demeaned and degraded. Being physically hurt by someone while having sex. She told me this is not a fantasy she wants played out by someone who loves her, i.e., me.

I've asked her if that is still her fantasy and she says no. Part of her self work was to understand why she would want that kind of thing. I'm not a psychologist myself, but that I have to think it has to be linked somehow to low self esteem. And the low self esteem has to be linked to what she refers to as her "year in bed" - the year prior. I don't think she had any self respect at the time of the affair.

As far as libido, it seems like she's only into it once or twice per month to me. Some months may be more. I'm not keeping a log. I'm sure my inability to deal with all this has affected her libido for me. Thus, why I'd like to be able to just dispense with these feelings of "being in a shadow of fantasy" already. She says she can sense that I still have problems and it is difficult to "feel hot" for someone she feels scrutinized by. I can understand it. I'm not sure I want to have sex with anyone who isn't mentally into it anyway.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

That doesn't mean you can't develope another, differeent fantasy with her. Probably, most peoples fantasys are ridiculous. Its one thing to fantasize about being dominated and rogh sex, its another to actually enjoy the real pain of being a masochist.

Has she read FIFTY SHADES OF GREY by any chance?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> I don't know what to suggest because this type of dynamic is very difficult to break. And even if she was abused, I was too, and I don't see what that has to do with her giving it up to some strange creep that's going to have violent sex with her. That would actually require extreme vulnerability that you typically wouldn't see in an abuse victim.


There are some victims of CSA who learn to equate abusive sex with love, since that is the only form of human interaction they ever got used to. They have been conditioned to see abuse as love. It is sad. Actually I would say it is often typical to see this. 

I agree with your other points though. As much as I loved a woman I would NEVER let her see some of the dark things in the deepest recesses of my soul.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Men and women are different. One of the main reasons for a man to get married is to have a lifetime of sex with a willing and accessible partner. So to you wife = sexy = passion = marriage. For a woman it's not the same. She's getting married for the "life" of a married woman. Sex with husband is just something necessary to attain that goal. Your wife's sexual needs are not intertwined to her marriage like yours are. So don't beat yourself up, this happens to many men.

Now, since "sex is something necessary to attain that goal", why is she attaining her goal of a marital life without being sexual? You are allowing this. You are allowing all the excuses to matter. HEre are the excuses you are making:
1. She is stressed
2. She is an alcoholic
3. She was abused
4. Other than this, everything is great.

Now, the solution to your problem is not that hard. You have to decide that you are going to have a passionate sexual marriage no matter what. And you are going to invite her the choice to be your wife in that scenario. But all things have to be on the table. For example, if her job is preventing her from being sexual, then that has to be elminated from her life.

So here's how you think it works. You decide on divorce. You tell her about your decision. You two have a big cry and then sort out the legal details.

Here's how you want it to work. You move toward divorce while communicating with her the life you are seeking and constantly inviting her to make choices herself that will end the process if she desires to remain married to you. If the life you want is not materializing, you don't stop the divorce train.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> That doesn't mean you can't develope another, differeent fantasy with her. Probably, most peoples fantasys are ridiculous. Its one thing to fantasize about being dominated and rogh sex, its another to actually enjoy the real pain of being a masochist.
> 
> Has she read FIFTY SHADES OF GREY by any chance?


Funny enough, she tried to read it. She couldn't get past what she called "poor writing" and didn't finish it. She does read a lot of mystery-romance novels though.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> OP hasn't been back, but I'll throw this out there. Probably won't sit well with a lot of guys but I don't think it's that unusual for women to have fantasies that they don't share with their husbands. It can be difficult to look a real person that you live with and see every day and reveal your dark side, so to speak.
> 
> I know I'm as open with my hb as I've been with any man but I'd be lying if I said he knew every last thing about me. .... I'm extremely private on many levels. But I can say that I've not done anything with another man that I either haven't done or been willing to do with hubby.
> 
> ...


Abuse victims can be very vulnerable. They can shut down part of their mind and allow their body to do stuff the shut down part of their mind would not do.

It is a protection strategy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.

What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She might need a little help to untangle her passion, which clearly exists, and focus it on her husband.

Whatever counselors have said just get over it are pathetic and not really interested in working through this issue.

I have seen something similar where a woman didn't equate sexual excitement with a loving husband or her self image as a good wife.

Very similar to what many posters have already mentioned.

Some women are incredibly sexual but associate it with being a "bad girl" and not with being a good wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Hicks said:


> Men and women are different. One of the main reasons for a man to get married is to have a lifetime of sex with a willing and accessible partner. So to you wife = sexy = passion = marriage. For a woman it's not the same. She's getting married for the "life" of a married woman. Sex with husband is just something necessary to attain that goal. Your wife's sexual needs are not intertwined to her marriage like yours are. So don't beat yourself up, this happens to many men.
> 
> Now, since "sex is something necessary to attain that goal", why is she attaining her goal of a marital life without being sexual? You are allowing this. You are allowing all the excuses to matter. HEre are the excuses you are making:
> 1. She is stressed
> ...


Very interesting approach, I have no doubt it would work, by definition.

At this point I would consider that a nuclear option, I'm not sure I'm there yet.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

And as a recovering alcoholic myself? I would tell any woman interested in me to drop me like a rock. I'm not worth the risk. 

If your wife is not attending AA three times a week, then she is not working her sobriety. Sorry man, but no alcoholic stays dry just by force of will. I need my three or four AA meetings a week just to survive, and will need them probably for the rest of my life. 

This aspect of your marriage will not get better until she is sober for some time. And I guarantee you she has a stash somewhere. Do some snooping while she's gone one day.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You sound very in control of the issues that you face. She needs help - for everything, including the alcohol addiction - and it appears she is getting it. 

As many have said, we all have fantasies that we neither want our spouses (or anyone, really) to know about, nor want to have realized for ourselves. Your WW crossed that line with the help of the very soft barrier of the internet.

I understand your feelings of inadequacy, but don't think they are yours to address. She has generated these with her behavior. She needs to heal on all levels.

This may sound trivial to some, but I would recommend that she go cold turkey on her standard reading material, especially the romance novels, which these days stoke fantasy at all levels. It's not just Fifty Shades of Grey. It's become a massive movement that most men are mostly oblivious to & it can blur lines and create seriously unrealistic and unhelpful thought processes in readers.

Your WW would do well to attack getting healthy on all fronts - complete sobriety, IC, quality time with her BH, and exercise in the fresh air instead of hours reading romance on her reader.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.
> 
> What I fear is this....while she has passion for me, it's not like what I saw her give out elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that is sometimes what it is like in my head, not all the time, but sometimes.....except fear probably wasn't the word to use. "Hate" may be a better one.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

There is no way on earth that your wife will get sexual with you if she does not see that it is a condition of being married to you.

There are many ways to teach her this.

It's essential you break her definition of the relationship between marriage and passion and replace it with yours.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

You mentioned she had deficiencies in her bloodwork, if at least one of them is iron that will cause low libido. She didn't have sex in real life, and you weren't there when she was sexting, so do you know if she was actually getting fully aroused or just typing fantasies and sending photos? Also have you tried sexting her online or via mobile phone? Have her sit in the other room and talk sexually to each other online. It may help you understand that side of her and may help her see you differently. If it works for her, then you will know it wasn't about you but the method (IRL vs RL). If she still can't talk to you sexually from the safety of a computer screen then issues probably are just you and her together. 

Also what happens when you approach her for sex? You said its once or twice a month. How often are you approaching her and what do you do if she doesn't seem to be in the mood? Just give up? With women a low libido causes her to want sex less, but having sex less keeps her libido low. Having sex more even when she doesn't initially feel the desire will increase her libido. Maybe you should encourage her to satisfy herself alone, no matter how much time it initially takes her, so her libido will increase. Or if she agrees, just have sex together anyway at least once a day for a week or more to see if it does increase her desire for you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

powerlloyd said:


> Funny enough, she tried to read it. She couldn't get past what she called "poor writing" and didn't finish it. She does read a lot of mystery-romance novels though.


I tried to read it too, several times and couldn't get through it. How it got to be such a phenomenon is beyond me.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

powerlloyd said:


> *We have seen several counselors together and seperate, like I said, and the general advice is "Get over it", or "That was about her, not about you" or "You have to forget about it.....try breathing through it until the thought passes"*/QUOTE]
> 
> One thing for sure, if this is what you and her counselors are saying they absolutely [email protected] Find new counselors


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hicks said:


> There is no way on earth that your wife will get sexual with you if she does not see that it is a condition of being married to you.
> 
> There are many ways to teach her this.
> 
> It's essential *you break her definition of the relationship between marriage and passion and replace it with yours*.


He can't do this for her. She has to, and before that... she has to want to.

Powerlloyd does your wife want to have a fun, vibrant sex life with you? Have you asked her? 

Have you talked to her about what she wants?


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Cecezakat said:


> You mentioned she had deficiencies in her bloodwork, if at least one of them is iron that will cause low libido. She didn't have sex in real life, and you weren't there when she was sexting, so do you know if she was actually getting fully aroused or just typing fantasies and sending photos? Also have you tried sexting her online or via mobile phone? Have her sit in the other room and talk sexually to each other online. It may help you understand that side of her and may help her see you differently. If it works for her, then you will know it wasn't about you but the method (IRL vs RL). If she still can't talk to you sexually from the safety of a computer screen then issues probably are just you and her together.
> 
> Also what happens when you approach her for sex? You said its once or twice a month. How often are you approaching her and what do you do if she doesn't seem to be in the mood? Just give up? With women a low libido causes her to want sex less, but having sex less keeps her libido low. Having sex more even when she doesn't initially feel the desire will increase her libido. Maybe you should encourage her to satisfy herself alone, no matter how much time it initially takes her, so her libido will increase. Or if she agrees, just have sex together anyway at least once a day for a week or more to see if it does increase her desire for you.


Iron was a deficiency. And I could stand to initiate sex more truth be told. She doesn't reject me when I do. But she initiated that fantasy with that dude online over and over again. That shows some initiative I'd like to see directed at me, and I haven't seen it to that level.

I'm here for perspective. I need to know if my expectations are too high. The answers have been varied. I'm digesting it all, and it is all much appreciated.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> I tried to read it too, several times and couldn't get through it. How it got to be such a phenomon is beyond me.


_Transformers_ was one of the most gawdawful movies ever made....and yet they make more and more and more sequels...

Its all about consumerism and what the publishing companies are willing to throw their money behind. They know what sells, and smut like _50 Shades _sells.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> He can't do this for her. She has to, and before that... she has to want to.
> 
> Powerlloyd does your wife want to have a fun, vibrant sex life with you? Have you asked her?
> 
> Have you talked to her about what she wants?


She says it's what she wants. I talked to her about all of this last night. We had sex last night as a matter of fact after talking about it. She isn't feeling her sexiest these days because she has gained some weight in the past year (although I don't mind, but she does, and that matters a great deal of course). She also said she thinks it's something that will grow from where we are now, but will probably take some time.

I really don't want to manipulate her into something that she doesn't want to do. That wouldn't be very satisfying. And if all that mattered to me in a marriage was sex, I wouldn't be married. There is too much overhead to marriage for something you can have without being married. I have little doubt I could find a close approximation to my wife to have sex with without having to maintain all that comes along with marriage. Marriage isn't easy, but obviously has its rewards, and it's not all about getting off for me. I hope I haven't come across that way. I'm married to my wife at this point because I love and care about her. I lust after her as well, but that's not the most important thing. It is important, but not all-important.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

convert said:


> powerlloyd said:
> 
> 
> > *We have seen several counselors together and seperate, like I said, and the general advice is "Get over it", or "That was about her, not about you" or "You have to forget about it.....try breathing through it until the thought passes"*/QUOTE]
> ...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> You sound very in control of the issues that you face. She needs help - for everything, including the alcohol addiction - and it appears she is getting it.
> 
> As many have said, we all have fantasies that we neither want our spouses (or anyone, really) to know about, nor want to have realized for ourselves. Your WW crossed that line with the help of the very soft barrier of the internet.
> 
> ...


Men get hooked on porn and cant perform for their wives. I t doesnt mean they arent sexual or have a low libido. If she is reading the kind of romance novel im thinking about alot, she doesnt have a low libido problem be azue she is getting turned on plenty by her romance novels.

Go through some of them and check out how graphic they are.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

You don't come across as caring too much about the sex part. Sex is a big part of the foundation of a marriage. A bad sex life inevitably leads to a bad married life. It's also a great tool to help keep the bond alive through rough patches. I know you want her to initiate more but she clearly struggles with real life physical intimacy. I'm sure if you initiated and had sex as much as YOU want (since she doesn't reject you) that she will become more comfortable and adjusted to real intimacy. Then she will initiate with you. Just help her get to that point. I feel like it does work based on my own experience with my husband, but maybe I'm wrong. We always agreed that he can have sex when he wants even if I'm not in the mood. It never made me hate him, resent him or feel disgusted. It actually helped keep our marriage together when I was anemic and later when I had postpartum depression for a year. It never went lower than once every 2 days and so my husband has been very satisfied with our marriage despite problems. Maybe let go of the pride part and just try having more sex to see where it takes you both. What could it hurt?


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Cecezakat said:


> You don't come across as caring too much about the sex part. Sex is a big part of the foundation of a marriage. A bad sex life inevitably leads to a bad married life. It's also a great tool to help keep the bond alive through rough patches. I know you want her to initiate more but she clearly struggles with real life physical intimacy. I'm sure if you initiated and had sex as much as YOU want (since she doesn't reject you) that she will become more comfortable and adjusted to real intimacy. Then she will initiate with you. Just help her get to that point. I feel like it does work based on my own experience with my husband, but maybe I'm wrong. We always agreed that he can have sex when he wants even if I'm not in the mood. It never made me hate him, resent him or feel disgusted. It actually helped keep our marriage together when I was anemic and later when I had postpartum depression for a year. It never went lower than once every 2 days and so my husband has been very satisfied with our marriage despite problems. Maybe let go of the pride part and just try having more sex to see where it takes you both. What could it hurt?


I would rank it somewhere below #1 and above #3 as most important things in a marriage. Intimacy is super important to me in my marriage. Otherwise, we are just friends. I just would never rank it so high that I would neglect her well-being for it. Like, manipulating her into something she doesn't want to do is damaging her well-being in my mind.

But I agree with you, what can it hurt? And yes, the pride thing is likely contributing to my problems here with this. Some things for me to work on.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

powerlloyd said:


> She says it's what she wants. I talked to her about all of this last night. We had sex last night as a matter of fact after talking about it. She isn't feeling her sexiest these days because she has gained some weight in the past year (although I don't mind, but she does, and that matters a great deal of course). She also said she thinks it's something that will grow from where we are now, but will probably take some time.
> 
> *I really don't want to manipulate her into something that she doesn't want to do. *That wouldn't be very satisfying. And if all that mattered to me in a marriage was sex, I wouldn't be married. There is too much overhead to marriage for something you can have without being married. I have little doubt I could find a close approximation to my wife to have sex with without having to maintain all that comes along with marriage. Marriage isn't easy, but obviously has its rewards, and it's not all about getting off for me. I hope I haven't come across that way. I'm married to my wife at this point because I love and care about her. I lust after her as well, but that's not the most important thing. It is important, but not all-important.


It is not manipulation. It is called meeting each other's needs. 

She has needs that for some reason or other she cannot communicate to you because of some strange hangup she has regarding marriage. I'm telling you...her Catholic upbringing coupled with her CSA have combined to contribute to some unhealthy views on sex. 

There are professionals known as "Marriage Coaches". They are not counselors or therapists. They sit down with you and your wife, they listen to the issues and then they teach you and your wife practical techniques and methods on how to overcome communication barriers, hangups and shyness. Get on the web and look up one in your area and go see him/her.

You know, I think a lot of what is going on with your wife is simply shyness and shame. She loves you and admires you and wants you to do wild things with her sexually, but because you are her husband and the man she loves she is afraid that if she tells you what she needs then you will think she is ugly and disgusting, and that by default you will love her less. Her body image is just an extension of that. Why not get her a one or two month membership for a pilates class, or a yoga class? Those will make her feel better and when she feels better she will be more apt to feel like having sex. 

A previous poster commented that the OM was really no one to your wife. He was a stranger whom she did not respect or admire, nor did she care what he thought about her...so she felt free to sext with him. He was the human equivalent of a vibrator. There was no love there. He was not a better man than you. 

This is the mental block that she has to overcome, and the way you can help her overcome it is by making her feel safe to tell you what she wants. A Marriage Coach can help you and her with that. 

But she has to want it and she has to want to work on it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> There are some victims of CSA who learn to equate abusive sex with love, since that is the only form of human interaction they ever got used to. They have been conditioned to see abuse as love. It is sad. Actually I would say it is often typical to see this.


I was going to say this. It's very common. Their mind gets warped from the abuse. And they are often very reticent to show that kind of thing to the 'real' man in their life out of self-hatred and shame. In a fantasy, they get to do things that make them feel something, but they know it's wrong. She will have a hard time letting you see that side of her because it is shame-filled, and she only wants you to admire her.

And when you add weight to the picture...weight to women is the same thing as penis size to men. When it's not optimum, we have a hard time being fully sexual because all we're thinking is 'he hates me, he thinks I'm ugly, I can't let him see me naked, etc.'


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

I’m not making excuses for your wife’s affair. I’m trying to explain why she’s acting the way she is now that your marriage has improved. The OM was not better than you he was just new.



Hicks said:


> Men and women are different. One of the main reasons for a man to get married is to have a lifetime of sex with a willing and accessible partner. So to you wife = sexy = passion = marriage. For a woman it's not the same. She's getting married for the "life" of a married woman. Sex with husband is just something necessary to attain that goal. Your wife's sexual needs are not intertwined to her marriage like yours are. So don't beat yourself up, this happens to many men.


I’ve tried to express the above but I was never able to do it that well.



powerlloyd said:


> But I do still love her and care about her as a person. Almost like I would my own daughter.


Your wife feels the same way about you. You’re family. She might give you a kidney but you don’t make her hot. The brain goes through three stages to find a mate:

1.	Scanning the environment

2.	Romantic love. Focusing on one individual. You don’t see their faults and the hormones are raging. At most this last two or three years.

3.	Long term love. You see the mate’s faults but you can put up with them to raise a kid. 

She was in stage 2 with the OM. Again, the OM was not better than you he was just new.

Google this 20 minute video that explains it: Why we love, why we cheat by Helen Fisher


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

If you're going to do therapy, try out EMDR.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

powerlloyd said:


> I would rank it somewhere below #1 and above #3 as most important things in a marriage. Intimacy is super important to me in my marriage. Otherwise, we are just friends. I just would never rank it so high that I would neglect her well-being for it. Like, manipulating her into something she doesn't want to do is damaging her well-being in my mind.
> 
> But I agree with you, what can it hurt? And yes, the pride thing is likely contributing to my problems here with this. Some things for me to work on.


I have to be honest that I find you using the term "manipulate" in regards to a healthy sexual relationship a tad offensive. I'm not advocating manipulation to get the sex you want nor was I implying my husband did such a thing. You seem to think have sex with your wife when she isn't in the mood means you are manipulating her and you couldn't be more wrong. You think that protects her well-being when its more likely holding her back from a fulfilling sex life that she wants and deserves. 

I am a mostly low desire woman and there are times when I have no desire. This means I don't really think about having sex too much and don't usually feel like initiating sex. However, my husband is high desire and because of his constant initiation we have a great sex-life that I enjoy immensely. He always makes sure I am thoroughly satisfied by the end, even when I didn't want to have sex in the first place and it took him over 45 minutes to get me there. He keeps our sex life alive and I benefit greatly from that and don't at all feel manipulated. So to me having LD and not being in the mood doesn't mean you can't enjoy frequent sex. It just puts more the burden on the other partner to keep things hot and interesting. That's what kept us from having a dried-up sex life, helped me explore my own sexuality (we were both virgins at marriage) and become more comfortable with sex in general. 

I know your pride is hurt and I don't blame you. But you are choosing to stay in this marriage and work on it, including sex. Your wife is a grown woman now. If she doesn't reject your advances then it means having sex with her isn't damaging her. She is old enough to know to stop sexual advances from her husband if she is feeling resentful, hateful, or disgusted. She also sounds like she is a submissive, as I am. I share most of the fantasies you said she has expressed but I don't want to do any of them IRL. Instead, my husband and I talk about them in bed and that's good enough for me. I feel confident that your wife won't feel manipulated by you having sex when you want and will most likely become a lot happier and more satisfied. I know I would be a lot more unhappy and think of my husband as more of a friend if he only wanted sex once a month.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> It is not manipulation. It is called meeting each other's needs.
> 
> She has needs that for some reason or other she cannot communicate to you because of some strange hangup she has regarding marriage. I'm telling you...her Catholic upbringing coupled with her CSA have combined to contribute to some unhealthy views on sex.
> 
> ...


She definitely wants to work on it. A Marriage Coach is something I will look into. Haven't had much luck with counselors so far. Thanks for the pointer.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> I was going to say this. It's very common. Their mind gets warped from the abuse. And they are often very reticent to show that kind of thing to the 'real' man in their life out of self-hatred and shame. In a fantasy, they get to do things that make them feel something, but they know it's wrong. She will have a hard time letting you see that side of her because it is shame-filled, and she only wants you to admire her.
> 
> And when you add weight to the picture...weight to women is the same thing as penis size to men. When it's not optimum, we have a hard time being fully sexual because all we're thinking is 'he hates me, he thinks I'm ugly, I can't let him see me naked, etc.'


My wife likes some moderately kinky stuff in the bedroom or she gets bored. 

One night purely by accident, I discovered she liked to be bitten, with just a touch of pain. 

In the after glow, I opened my fat mouth and asked her about it. She got really angry and said she didn't want to talk about it. 

So now I just chew on her and shut my trap... 

But the same thing applies here. She likes it, but does not want to talk about liking it because she has to accept that she is naughty.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

marduk said:


> If you're going to do therapy, try out EMDR.


Thanks, I had never heard of that before. It looks like it could helpful for both of us for different events in our lives.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Cecezakat said:


> I have to be honest that I find you using the term "manipulate" in regards to a healthy sexual relationship a tad offensive. I'm not advocating manipulation to get the sex you want nor was I implying my husband did such a thing. You seem to think have sex with your wife when she isn't in the mood means you are manipulating her and you couldn't be more wrong. You think that protects her well-being when its more likely holding her back from a fulfilling sex life that she wants and deserves.
> 
> I am a mostly low desire woman and there are times when I have no desire. This means I don't really think about having sex too much and don't usually feel like initiating sex. However, my husband is high desire and because of his constant initiation we have a great sex-life that I enjoy immensely. He always makes sure I am thoroughly satisfied by the end, even when I didn't want to have sex in the first place and it took him over 45 minutes to get me there. He keeps our sex life alive and I benefit greatly from that and don't at all feel manipulated. So to me having LD and not being in the mood doesn't mean you can't enjoy frequent sex. It just puts more the burden on the other partner to keep things hot and interesting. That's what kept us from having a dried-up sex life, helped me explore my own sexuality (we were both virgins at marriage) and become more comfortable with sex in general.
> 
> I know your pride is hurt and I don't blame you. But you are choosing to stay in this marriage and work on it, including sex. Your wife is a grown woman now. If she doesn't reject your advances then it means having sex with her isn't damaging her. She is old enough to know to stop sexual advances from her husband if she is feeling resentful, hateful, or disgusted. She also sounds like she is a submissive, as I am. I share most of the fantasies you said she has expressed but I don't want to do any of them IRL. Instead, my husband and I talk about them in bed and that's good enough for me. I feel confident that your wife won't feel manipulated by you having sex when you want and will most likely become a lot happier and more satisfied. I know I would be a lot more unhappy and think of my husband as more of a friend if he only wanted sex once a month.


I don't think you should be offended. I wasn't projecting that feeling of manipulating or being manipulated on your situation. I think if what you are doing works for you and your and your husband are happy, then it's the best thing you could be doing. I know my wife well enough that I would need to tread carefully if I am expecting a positive response from her. Maybe that will change over time, but right now, I know making demands will not incite anything but bitterness. This I base on recent experience.

I think being able to openly communicate needs without judgement is something we both need to work on as you and others have suggested.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> It is not manipulation. It is called meeting each other's needs.
> 
> She has needs that for some reason or other she cannot communicate to you because of some strange hangup she has regarding marriage. I'm telling you...her Catholic upbringing coupled with her CSA have combined to contribute to some unhealthy views on sex.
> 
> ...


I think you're pretty spot on with a lot of your points here


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> My wife likes some moderately kinky stuff in the bedroom or she gets bored.
> 
> One night purely by accident, I discovered she liked to be bitten, with just a touch of pain.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean, my analytic brain has to analyze, dissect and know everything. It can get in the way of fun sometimes.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There seems to be a lot of men on this website that think a woman not initiating is a sign they arent interested. I dated different women for a long time. Ive rarely seen women do that much initiating, many you cant even get them to pick a movie or restaurant. I think they dont want to disapoint their date or spouse.

Do not confuse leadership with manipulation. I suppose one partner is always a bit more dominant and one a bit more submissive. Its kind of like the axiom here that the partner that cares the least controls the relationship.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

powerlloyd said:


> Thanks, I had never heard of that before. It looks like it could helpful for both of us for different events in our lives.


IME, using EMDR is the single best way to effect a real change in a person. Talking only gets you so far. EMDR causes you to make changes. Whether you want to or not, lol. Not for the faint of heart, so I've heard.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

I'm sorry but I don't understand something. You said your wife doesn't reject your advances and that you are just upset that she doesn't initiate with you or show passion. If she doesn't reject you then why would you need to "manipulate" or "demand" her into sex? Again you described your initiating sex with a negative term, making demands. If you cozy up to her and she doesn't reject it then what leaves you thinking you are making a demand? She must be saying something that would give you that impression, or you are misreading her because of your wounded feelings.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Cecezakat said:


> I'm sorry but I don't understand something. You said your wife doesn't reject your advances and that you are just upset that she doesn't initiate with you or show passion. If she doesn't reject you then why would you need to "manipulate" or "demand" her into sex? Again you described your initiating sex with a negative term, making demands. If you cozy up to her and she doesn't reject it then what leaves you thinking you are making a demand? She must be saying something that would give you that impression, or you are misreading her because of your wounded feelings.


The manipulation comes in if I say (paraphrase) "Why don't you give me what you gave him?" in terms of initiative, passion, pictures, vulnerability, intimacy, drive, can't sleep through the night without needing to get off with me, etc....?" That is, in the wake of the affair, what she inadvertently showed as her brand of high octane sexuality is what I want. It's not just the simple act of sex. I probably don't need to manipulate her into the simple act of sex. Having sex is very different in my mind to trusting someone with XXX rated pictures of yourself. I don't even feel great about wanting that from her. But in the wake of the affair, I am finding myself feeling inadequate that she doesn't feel the drive to be that way with me.

If I say that's what I want (what she gave him) to be happy, I feel like I would have to somehow manipulate her into doing what I want. What I want may not be realistic (probably not, because it was based in fantasy), or even healthy. I don't know. I know having this feeling come on every now and again (it is not a constant feeling) sucks.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Graywolf2 said:


> I’m not making excuses for your wife’s affair. I’m trying to explain why she’s acting the way she is now that your marriage has improved. The OM was not better than you he was just new.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was an interesting video. I am sure she was feeling the dopamine high for a year. I kind of watched it all unfold before my eyes, at least as much as I was able to see. Pretty sad to watch your wife go through those stages with someone else.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> There seems to be a lot of men on this website that think a woman not initiating is a sign they arent interested. I dated different women for a long time. Ive rarely seen women do that much initiating, many you cant even get them to pick a movie or restaurant. I think they dont want to disapoint their date or spouse.
> 
> Do not confuse leadership with manipulation. I suppose one partner is always a bit more dominant and one a bit more submissive. Its kind of like the axiom here that the partner that cares the least controls the relationship.


Both are forms of influence. The intent is what diferentiates the two.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I highly recommend you try to find a copy of this book. It just might change your bedroom time:
52 Invitations To Grrreat Sex: It All Begins with a Lick: Laura Corn: 9780974259918: Amazon.com: Books

As an abuse victim who sees sex as sinful and shameful, it allowed me to do things with my H and forget about the shame aspect. Plus it made things more fun and enjoyable.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

powerlloyd said:


> I know what you mean, my analytic brain has to analyze, dissect and know everything. It can get in the way of fun sometimes.


It could be more than that.

It could trigger her "good girl" defences. As in a good girl would never want such a thing...

Except, of course, in the heat of the moment or the fantasy where she doesn't have to be a good girl.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Look, Powerlloyd! I am going to say this only once more. Stop talking about it. Go and do something deliciously deviant and kinky with her now. Take her by surprise. Do not give her time to think about it. Make sure that it leaves her in no doubt that

(a) you truly fancy her and her bits; and 
(b) the two of you just did something so kinky that it might almost have been illegal!

So plan what you are going to do and let your inner animal free!

(Jeez, I feel like I am as bad a writer as that 50 shades woman!)

Go do it! Now!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Agreed. Women want the men to take their breath away and let them use the excuse that he took over, so they don't look like the aggressor. That's important to a lot of women.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

I understand you now. I guess I just think that having sex with her a lot more regularly will lead to her opening up to you in the way she did online. You are kind of wanting her to convert something she did online into doing it IRL which she may have never ever done. That's why I think you establishing a regular amount of sex could get her more comfortable with expressing her sexuality IRL.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

PL, old saying "we want a lady in the streets, and a freak in the sheets." You saw some of this in her, but her sickness is what pushed her there.

Get the MMSLP, along with His Needs, Her Needs. I think these will be helpful to you both.

As to what ALL she did, I can see alcohol, and depression dragging her into it. Not excusing it, but being an emotionally and mentally stunted person myself, I can kinda understand. She found a way to punish, and degrade herself for letting her family and herself down.
Did she get her jollies?? On some levels yeah. Just as the abused learn to enjoy their abuse.
So don't take it personally.
You may think she really wants these things on some level, but you could be wrong. If she was a cutter, would you think she was sick?? Well, cutters find a kind of release. Do you see where I'm going??

As many here know, married sex can't compete with affair sex. Especially if it's all in the mind, but f you want some of the "drop at the hat stuff", then get it. Take it out of the bedroom. Bend her over when you want and it's safe to do so. Now I'm not talking about raping her, but a lil swat on her butt and a lil nip on her neck as you two do the dishes can go a long way to changing up things. While also reassuring her you find her hot.
You say she don't rebuff you, take advantage of it. You may just find yourself being attacked a couple of times yourself when you start to change how she see you.
Although, you will need to change yourself some. Easy up on the dotting all i's and crossing all t's. You know, the accountant mindset.
As xenote said, shutup and do lol. Like that xenote!!!
Most men could take a lesson in that.

There has been some very valid points across this thread, but mostly I'm seeing you not getting that HOT NASTY.
Well get some !! Let her know you would like a lil bad girl coming out every-now- an-then. Show her that extra lil jiggle get's you hot.

I may get bombed by the regulars, but I think they know what I'm saying.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

powerlloyd said:


> She was very sexual. Very, very, very sexual with him. With her words, with her pictures, etc....
> 
> She is not like that with me. Sexting and sending pics had never been a part of our relationship (although a few years ago, I did try to do that with her, and she showed little to no interest).
> 
> I told her this bothers me, and makes me feel like this is a sham, and that I don't feel like I really even compare to that guy on the Internet she loved so much.


It IS a sham. You're plan B. She was afraid of losing her security blanket to another woman so she feeds you JUST ENOUGH bread crumbs (sex 2 times a month, occasional pic) to keep you on the hook. 

She's a serial chat, remorseless, she's clearly horny for the other guy and not you, dump her. Make no mistake, she would of been banging the her guy like a rabbit if he lived in your town.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Her alcohol intake during the time of her EA most likely factored in the lowering of her inhibitions with the OM.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> It IS a sham. You're plan B. She was afraid of losing her security blanket to another woman so she feeds you JUST ENOUGH bread crumbs (sex 2 times a month, occasional pic) to keep you on the hook.
> 
> 
> 
> She's a serial chat, remorseless, she's clearly horny for the other guy and not you, dump her. Make no mistake, she would of been banging the her guy like a rabbit if he lived in your town.



I'm not her security blanket. I provided details in another post, but she doesn't need my money or anything else I have to offer unless she really wants it from me. She'd have no problem finding another swinging thing and she makes lots of money, so she doesn't need mine. If she didn't want me, she wouldn't be with me. I'm not positive about how she would've reacted to actually meeting this guy in real life. But knowing all I know, I'm not sure it's what she really wanted


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

OldWolf57 said:


> PL, old saying "we want a lady in the streets, and a freak in the sheets." You saw some of this in her, but her sickness is what pushed her there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I intend to proceed this way and see where it takes me. Many share your train of thought here. I agree with it


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Are you still here talking about it ? Have you bought the lube, handcuffs, blindfold, feathers, whip and a large bottle of chocolate sauce ? Not yet you say ? Get moving ! Then there is the blow up clown and edible thong too not to mention fake chest hair (for her)! C'mon, chop chop!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

.....and midget referees....


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## LonelyGirl1963 (Jun 24, 2015)

powerlloyd said:


> Mine is a long, maybe familiar story, but since everyone's story is different, I will try to hit the highlights.
> 
> Met my wife in high school. Dated 5 years, married almost 18 years now. We love each other very much. But............
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. It is very hard for a husband to compete with virtual online relationships and here is why.
They are emotionally intense because they are so focused. Aside from the photos there is not a lot of sizing up about who that person on the other side of laptop or phone or whatever really is because it doesn't really matter.

Lover boy can be anything she wants him to be because in a way she is playing both parts. He is what she wants him to be in her imagination because she has only very limited contact. He is kind of a designer man designed by her.

For the time they spend together they live in a perfect world because again what they have is not actually real and the relationship carries none of the problems of the real world.

So in terms of competing it's very hard to compete with someone who isn't real and is very much a product of your wife's imagination in that since she has no physical contact with him she can make him anything she wants him to be, and she can't do that with you.

How do I know all of this, because I have just gotten out of a situation very similar to your wife's. The difference is I actually went from a virtual affair to a real life one with the person I was with. And you know what, it was so much better when it was virtual because there were really no problems to be dealt with like in real life.

It's very possible that in your wife's mind what she has been doing is a way to get her needs met without actually physically cheating on you. Some people don't consider emotional cheating as cheating at all. I actually think it is way more damaging because there is usually an element of love and connecting as opposed to just the physical.

Anyone who hides in a bottle and has become so dysfunctional she can't get out of bed has some real issues which I doubt have a lot to do with you. Instead of drinking and taking pills she is soothing whatever is bugging her with this online affair.

You are not getting what you need from her because she is putting so much energy into this online affair and you said it yourself, she seems happy, but then so do people on Prozac.

I wish you well. Good luck!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Security blanket doesn't have to be financial, it can be emotional too. 

I make more than hubby and certainly don't need him financially but he brings a lot of other things to my life that I like having. 

It's quite possible she loves you, she just doesn't feel comfortable letting you see the side of her you want to see. I do agree with others who suggest that you shouldn't compare yourself to this fantasy of hers, but I still think she isn't that into you sexually. For women it's easy to separate out sex that way..... many can have a perfectly happy marriage without it. And it's not like she was going to have a life with internet guy.

And honestly I truly believe that certain fantasies are not good for a marriage. Third parties and violence comes to mind, but there are others.

What you want isn't even those fantasies, I think, but just that side of her that's very sexual. You don't have that type of relationship. 

I think generally this type of relationship is established early on and is very hard to create, but like others have said you could give it a try. it's going to require you getting out of the mindset that she should freely offer like she did her fantasy and into a more aggressive mindset where you go after her. If that doesn't work then it's not going to happen so may as well accept it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Read up on responsive drive.

She seems like she might have one and that could be stimulated by you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Maybe y'all can shed some light on this, but if she was initiating virtually with the OM, why responsive desire with the OP? 

I don't get that,and I suspect the OP doesn't either.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Maybe y'all can shed some light on this, but if she was initiating virtually with the OM, why responsive desire with the OP?
> 
> I don't get that,and I suspect the OP doesn't either.



Because responsive desire is actually just an excuse for low attraction?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Or she might have a reactive drive. Brain not working well. LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Maybe y'all can shed some light on this, but if she was initiating virtually with the OM, why responsive desire with the OP?
> 
> I don't get that,and I suspect the OP doesn't either.


Responsive drive can be responding to an attitude or manner.

She was very possibly responding to how gameboy portrayed himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Responsive drive can be responding to an attitude or manner.
> 
> She was very possibly responding to how gameboy portrayed himself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not saying that I agree with WOM, but if this post is correct, so is he.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Because responsive desire is actually just an excuse for low attraction?


Not at all. I am like that a lot, I think my hb is very attractive but between my hormones, kids, job, life, etc I don't necessarily feel sexual a lot. But I do love sex with him and intellectually I know I'm going to like it, so that combined with his aggressiveness usually gets me going. There are plenty of times I could do without it but when we get going it's on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Not at all. I am like that a lot, I think my hb is very attractive but between my hormones, kids, job, life, etc I don't necessarily feel sexual a lot. But I do love sex with him and intellectually I know I'm going to like it, so that combined with his aggressiveness usually gets me going. There are plenty of times I could do without it but when we get going it's on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Bottom line is the OPs wife was spontaneous desire with the other man. It has nothing to do with the way she is and everything to do with how into her husband she is.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

C, I'm not saying she get's a pass. I was just giving you another way to go about it.

We all are complex creatures, with many different part, and some don't mesh with how we want to be seen.
Rare is the woman that is secure enough to show her sl#t side to her hubby. Where as I think most of us men in long term relationships would welcome her with open arms.
We know that side is there, but our women mostly refuse to let us see her. Why??
Many reasons, but being judged and loss of respect from their mate is my guess. 
Also you have the old familiar just don't get their motor revving, and basically this sound like what you are dealing with now.
Yes she is dealing with internal stuff, but at the first chance she had, she let her sl#t loose. and now that she has secured you again, she is feeling so safe that she has once again regulated you to friend zone.
Go back to her blubbering for two days afraid of losing you. You was attractive to her.
So now you need to concentrate on being an individual again.
Not talking about D, just finding the man you was and want to be.
Many in long term relationships, lose the man that attracted their wife. They become their wife purse.
Stop being her purse, start changing your habits. Nothing drastic, just make her start to wonder about you for a change.

Gotta say though. I never would have stayed after she started with the "don't see me that way", and the lack of intimacy after promising to work on things.
My advice, stop focusing on her, and start focusing on you. Not a 180, but it should start her looking to see what is going on with you, instead of wallowing in selfpity.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The best explanation here is the same with pretty much all affair sex.

Affair sex is wilder and without as many boundaries. There is the excitement of doing something forbidden. The big thing though is neither partner is truly invested in the other. Affair partners will do things they are ashamed of doing with a normal partner because they know deep down that their affair partner has nothing to lose by dumping them and moving on to someone else. In other words, they know the affair partner doesn't really care for them like a committed partner does.

With the advice in MMSLP, the married dynamic can change and the wife can be reattracted so to speak. As it points out however, nothing may work and then its time to move on.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Gotta say though. I never would have stayed after she started with the "don't see me that way", and the lack of intimacy after promising to work on things.



Agreed. I think the only reasonable answer would have been you either start seeing me that way or I'm out. I'm not playing second fiddle to a computer screen.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Bottom line is the OPs wife was spontaneous desire with the other man. It has nothing to do with the way she is and everything to do with how into her husband she is.


That's pretty much what I already said in my other posts. I was just pointing out that responsive desire doesn't necessarily mean low attraction. When I do feel sexual my hb is the first one I think about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Bottom line is the OPs wife was spontaneous desire with the other man. It has nothing to do with the way she is and everything to do with how into her husband she is.


This is SO not necessarily true.

There are a lot of psychological issues involved with people, especially CSA people. She could be over the moon in love with her husband and still have a 'tic' in her brain that (1) keeps her from being 100% emotionally available to him and/or (2) allows her to show that stuff to someone else and not him. For many reasons. Shame, fear, abandonment issues, need for admiration, daddy issues, mommy issues, childhood friend issues...you name it, it could have had an effect on her.

People would be surprised how psychological stuff can drive us to do or not do things. I have a friend whose mother, when she was about 8 or 9, told her 'if you don't behave I'm going to take you back to the store and trade you in for a better girl.' That friend of mine has spent her whole life trying to please her mom; never even moved out of the home so she could care for her, just because that one comment forever changed her view of herself and the world. You just never know.

Doesn't make OP's wife evil, just human. Doesn't make her not in love with her husband. 

And, of course, the opposite is possible. She could just not care about him and thus cheated. And that itself could be from a myriad of causes - relationship, compatibility, problems they've had...or she could just be a Mean Girl (though he hasn't alluded to that).

Bottom line, we can help him see all _possible _angles and only he is there and only he can pick what seems to fit with her.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Bottom line is the OPs wife was spontaneous desire with the other man. It has nothing to do with the way she is and everything to do with how into her husband she is.


Or the role he already occupies in her life and mind. It's going to be difficult if not impossible to change his role inside her mind.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

Rather than individually reply to each post, if it helps the discussion, I will say these things in response to the past few posts:

After reading about responsive drive, I think we both fall into that category. My own libido is very clustered around actual acts of intimacy with her. During dry spells, she becomes less desirable to me. Then it comes back in a cluster. Maybe hormone related. It's always been that way for me. She seems to behave the same

She has stated several times that most of what she found attractive bout OM, she made up in her own head. At the time the affair commenced, our relationship was so bad, we would go days without speaking. In hindsight, I see all that was happening a recipe for disaster. (As always, not an excuse, just an analysis). I believe she was escaping a horrible reality, without regard to the reality she was creating

If she wasn't turned on by me, I firmly believe she wouldn't be with me. She lived by herself for 6 months. Plenty of freedom to explore anything she wanted with whomever she wanted. She never did. And if you think I'm being naive about what she did, and where she was, we share the same Apple ID. I could see where her phone was at any time. I could see photos she was taking. I could see calls she made, texts she sent and received, match them against the phone bill, etc.....the point was, she felt the need to remove herself from me to see if she had the kind of feelings for me to come back and reconcile this marriage.

She is simply not very sexual these days. The batteries in her vibrator have been dead for months. Nothing and no one seems to be getting her hot and bothered, EXCEPT me, like I said, about once or twice per month. She says it is difficult to feel hot and bothered when she is stressed out from work, and we are fighting about this stuff. I think the whole thing has exhausted her and put a sour taste in her mouth regarding sexual feelings. She says she wants all that to come back, and I'm the object of that desire. 

And yes, I'm still here talking about it, but that doesn't mean I'm not having sex with my wife while I'm not posting here...we had sex Thursday night and it was pretty awesome. She was a little ill last night, or I would've initiated again! I will again tonight if she's feeling better. In between posts on here, of course 😉


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

powerlloyd said:


> She says it is difficult to feel hot and bothered when she is stressed out from work, and we are fighting about this stuff.


This is VERY common for women. It's why, when the woman's expected to be 90% responsible for the kids and the house and still work and the H is expecting her to be hot and heavy for him...she often just can't. She's stressed, she's busy, she's exhausted. My H learned early on if he wanted sex, he'd have to get off the couch and actually do some of the work that needs done on a daily basis, I'd 'get off work' earlier and be more in the mood. And if we're not getting along at the moment...forget it. He knows if he does something that upsets me, he can expect to not get sex for several days, because I can't do it if when I look at him, I 'feel' the bad feelings from the incident.

Women very often really DO put it all in one basket, whereas, as I understand it, men are more often just ready to do it whenever the opportunity presents itself. At least that's what many men have told me.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

turnera said:


> This is VERY common for women. It's why, when the woman's expected to be 90% responsible for the kids and the house and still work and the H is expecting her to be hot and heavy for him...she often just can't. She's stressed, she's busy, she's exhausted. My H learned early on if he wanted sex, he'd have to get off the couch and actually do some of the work that needs done on a daily basis, I'd 'get off work' earlier and be more in the mood. And if we're not getting along at the moment...forget it. He knows if he does something that upsets me, he can expect to not get sex for several days, because I can't do it if when I look at him, I 'feel' the bad feelings from the incident.
> 
> 
> 
> Women very often really DO put it all in one basket, whereas, as I understand it, men are more often just ready to do it whenever the opportunity presents itself. At least that's what many men have told me.



I certainly agree with you. I would never tell anyone I've been dealing with any of this correctly for a successful reconciliation. Pride and resentment on my part have hindered it


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Communication is the key to a happy marriage. Being able to feel SAFE telling each other anything and everything. Get to that.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> That's pretty much what I already said in my other posts. I was just pointing out that responsive desire doesn't necessarily mean low attraction. When I do feel sexual my hb is the first one I think about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're a classic example of what I've been trying to tell some of these guys. When a woman has a high romantic interest in you, they seek out other men. What they have at home is plenty enough.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

powerlloyd said:


> I'm not her security blanket. I provided details in another post, but she doesn't need my money or anything else I have to offer unless she really wants it from me. She'd have no problem finding another swinging thing and she makes lots of money, so she doesn't need mine. If she didn't want me, she wouldn't be with me. I'm not positive about how she would've reacted to actually meeting this guy in real life. But knowing all I know, I'm not sure it's what she really wanted


Your security blanket need not be financial. How hard is it to find a decent guy at her age with all her medical and health issues and will put up with her duty sex ? It is much easier to have you around with the duty sex once in a while. You are a known and safe entity.

How often did you have sex right during the time period after the night you went on a date. I am guessing more than normal, right ?




> If she didn't want me, she wouldn't be with me


You are deriving logic from a false assumption. People stay for a lot of reasons.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

sparrow555 said:


> Your security blanket need not be financial. How hard is it to find a decent guy at her age with all her medical and health issues and will put up with her duty sex ? It is much easier to have you around with the duty sex once in a while. You are a known and safe entity.
> 
> How often did you have sex right during the time period after the night you went on a date. I am guessing more than normal, right ?
> 
> ...



I don't want to get hung up on semantics, but since it has been brought up a few times now, I don't think of a security blanket as something you feel the need to be physically separated from for half a year. Who can live without emotional "security" for half a year? That was her big opportunity. She was on match.com for about a week (I was on much longer), before she shut down her profile. We dated each other again, after a bit of time being separated, but I was not there for her in any kind of physical or emotional way for the majority of that time. We have kids, so there was some interaction of course

A lot has happened since those dates I went on. That was almost a year and a half ago.

You (and some others) seem to be making assertions as though you've sampled the posts in this thread and not read the whole thing. 

And I'm "deriving that logic" from her own words. She has spoken those exact words to me..... And backed them up with actions over the last 8 months. I didn't make it up in my head. She literally would have stayed in her apartment, which she loved and spent a pretty penny on, if she didn't want to be here working on it (ha! Now I am saying the same things she's said to me when I've questioned her motives)

Maybe it's helpful for those interested to continue to weigh in, here is the timeline:

1992 - January 2013: dated, married, no infidelity

Feb 2013 - Feb 2014: online affair

March 2014 - may 2014: 1st try at recon

June 2014 - October 2014: physical separation

Nov 2014 - present: 2nd try at recon 

The only thing seemingly getting in the way of this recon is my thoughts about why I'm treated differently than online affair partner. I needed perspective on that. I came here for that because so far, counselors have straight up stunk. This has been very helpful

I keep seeing a lot of posts that focus on what mostly happened in 2013. I'm really trying to live in the present, and deal with present day. 2013 sucked for all parties involved. I included it because it is relevant background of course. One thing she says when I bring up anything affair related is that she doesn't want to be kept there. She wants to move past it. I do too


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We've already explained why you are treated differently. Abuse, psychology, shame, fear, lack of honest communication all lead to a place where she can't let her wild cat out around you.


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

turnera said:


> We've already explained why you are treated differently. Abuse, psychology, shame, fear, lack of honest communication all lead to a place where she can't let her wild cat out around you.



Yes. And it has been very helpful


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did you look for that book I recommended?


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## powerlloyd (Jun 25, 2015)

turnera said:


> Did you look for that book I recommended?



We actually got that book when it first came out in the late 90's. We conceived our first child on one of those "dates", the one based on the Marylyn Monroe back massage move 😁

We never finished it though. I think it would help us today for sure


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

And get the MMSLP book. Its goal is reconnection and probably the most recommended book here. Most feel every man should read it by the time they start dating. It definitely isn't politically correct but biology has its own rules.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Knowing what I know now, if I found out my fiancée was a CSA I would call off the wedding and break up with her. 

If I was married to a woman as long as OP was married to his, and then found out she lied to me and never told me she suffered CSA, I would file for divorce right on the spot. Compound that lie with the lousy way she has treated him...

I have made sure to tell young men I know to steer clear of women with CSA baggage. I have made it sort of a mission in life.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Knowing what I know now, if I found out my fiancée was a CSA I would call off the wedding and break up with her.
> 
> If I was married to a woman as long as OP was married to his, and then found out she lied to me and never told me she suffered CSA, I would file for divorce right on the spot. Compound that lie with the lousy way she has treated him...
> 
> I have made sure to tell young men I know to steer clear of women with CSA baggage. I have made it sort of a mission in life.


Sadly I have to agree with you brother bandit. My XW was a victim of CSA who never told me before, during or after our marriage. I found out through one of her relatives during her stay in a psychiatric facility where she was treated after a mental breakdown suicide attempt. And like many CSA victims, she went on without therapy with a gaping wound just underneath the surface of her psyche for years.

I've talked about this issue at great length with my grown children (one is already married but the other two are still single) because of what happened with my XW. I told them that they should ask their potential partner if they were ever a victim of CSA and to make it a deal breaker if they lie and it is discovered later on. Not because these people are damaged goods and unworthy of being in a committed relationship but because keeping something so traumatic as a secret and lying about it, is definitely a sign that he/she cannot be trusted.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Being a CSA victim is a horrible burden to bear, and you are correct Mori: being a victim is nothing to be ashamed of, nor should said man or woman be excluded from marriage just because they have SA in their past. 

But most CSA victims have no clue how messed up they are. They think because they have buried it deep and the scar tissue has covered over the pain that everything will be rainbows and daffodils...

Then years later, when the boredom, stress and sameness of marriage become to much for their shattered psyches to bear they start acting out...acting out in sometimes horrific ways that they and the people they love cannot understand or comprehend. 

They are a ticking bomb. That bomb went off in your life Mori, and it decimated you, your marriage and your faith in love. I have never experienced it firsthand thank god, but I have read about it enough here on TAM and elsewhere, and so whenever I have a chance to talk to young single men I work with who are thinking of getting married, I always tell them to ask their partners if they had SA in their pasts. I tell them that they should never marry any woman who would withhold or lie about having had such an experience, because by hiding it they literally are, as Mori put it, carrying around a hidden wound that will infect them and undermine their marriage.

Att some point, two, five ,ten...even twenty years down the road, that fragile architecture of lies they have constructed will give way and it will all come crashing down, whether through adultery, drug or alcohol abuse, mental illness, or a combination of all those things. Something eventually has to give. And woe be to the clueless wife or husband who has to bear the brunt of it. We have seen that devastation too many times here.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lying about anything to your SO isn't a good idea ever.

I will disagree with bandit. CSA survivors that have worked through the confusion and pain to become healthy adults are often great mates.

I had a horrendous childhood but became a desirable partner.

I understand though. My sisters never effectively dealt with it and both became train wrecks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> But most CSA victims have no clue how messed up they are. They think because they have buried it deep and the scar tissue has covered over the pain that everything will be rainbows and daffodils...
> 
> Then years later, when the boredom, stress and sameness of marriage become to much for their shattered psyches to bear they start acting out...acting out in sometimes horrific ways that they and the people they love cannot understand or comprehend.


Wanted to throw in as exhibit A on this. My serial cheat ex was a CSA victim. She was to her credit upfront about it when we dated. Clearly I could see though, it messed her up but being an ignorant fool I thought I could "fix her" by playing white knight. Long story short, I got burned hard when being a nice guy providing her with a stable life got boring for her. 

I hate to paint a group with a broad stroke but honestly I'd never be with another person that broken again. As very astutely pointed out, most of them are time bombs. No different then dating any other screwed up person like a addict or something. 5-10% might be able to learn to function normally for the rest of their lives but the vast majority will eventually fall back down the hole and implode.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Lying about anything to your SO isn't a good idea ever.
> 
> I will disagree with bandit. CSA survivors that have worked through the confusion and pain to become healthy adults are often great mates.
> 
> ...


I have no doubt you have but you are in the minority. Most people stay damaged because they don't get the years of therapy they desperately need.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Lying about anything to your SO isn't a good idea ever.
> 
> I will disagree with bandit. *CSA survivors that have worked through the confusion and pain to become healthy adults* are often great mates.
> 
> I had a horrendous childhood but became a desirable partner.


FWIW, this isn't the type of person that bandit and Mori mentioned.



ConanHub said:


> I understand though. *My sisters never effectively dealt with it and both became train wrecks.*


This, however, is.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Lying about anything to your SO isn't a good idea ever.
> 
> I will disagree with bandit. CSA survivors that have worked through the confusion and pain to become healthy adults are often great mates.
> 
> ...


I never said that CSA victims could not recover and go on to good marriages. God bless those who choose to stick with them and marry them. 

What I said was I would counsel young unmarried men to steer clear of women who suffered CSA and avoid the pitfalls associated. There are already too many hurdles that young men face these days when looking at LTAs or marriage. The risks are too great even in healthy relationships where both partners are fully on board with the marital goals. There is simply no room for error anymore with marriage being as difficult to navigate these days as it is. 

I'm sorry if I seem cold, but I'm sick of hearing story after story after story of CSA survivors who never seek help for themselves, then down the road they end up blowing up their marriages and families because they could not handle the shame of exposing their pasts. 

The world moves too fast for us to stop what we are doing and spend the time needed to help these people fix themselves and the devastation they have wrought, simply because they never had the courage to reach out for help and deal with their pain. As hard as it is to keep a career going and keep up with the day to day hurdles of living, young single men don't need to be adding more difficulty to their lives by unknowingly taking on a fractured female who is held together by Elmers glue and masking tape, all covered with a thick layer of foundation and pretty lies.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> I hate to paint a group with a broad stroke but honestly I'd never be with another person that broken again. As very astutely pointed out, most of them are time bombs. No different then dating any other screwed up person like a addict or something. 5-10% might be able to learn to function normally for the rest of their lives but the vast majority will eventually fall back down the hole and implode.


I would not hold it against any woman who turned me down for marriage or a LTA because of my past alcoholism. Even though I am currently sober and have been for close to two years now, I am too great a risk for any woman to take on. I have come to accept that and am at peace with that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I always cringe when someone tries to excuse infidelity with CSA.

It is never an excuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, but it is a predictor.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> I have no doubt you have but you are in the minority. Most people stay damaged because they don't get the years of therapy they desperately need.


Eh, I never had years of therapy. I think I am damaged on some level, mostly because I have a hard time being vulnerable, but I think my hb would tell you that I'm a great partner. At least that's what he tells me. 

I think sometimes it's used as an excuse for bad behavior, like any other diagnosis or hardship. Some people probably need therapy more than others. 

For me the key was finding someone I deeply trusted and recognizing how I'm damaged.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Eh, I never had years of therapy. I think I am damaged on some level, mostly because I have a hard time being vulnerable, but I think my hb would tell you that I'm a great partner. At least that's what he tells me.
> 
> I think sometimes it's used as an excuse for bad behavior, like any other diagnosis or hardship. Some people probably need therapy more than others.
> 
> ...


You should still seek some counseling. At least someone to talk to you and maybe help you to see where and how it has impacted your life. A fresh perspective from a third party would do you good and maybe help you consider things you haven't considered. 

I never put much stock in therapy, but when I relapsed a couple years ago I went to short term treatment and my counselor there brought out demons in me I never knew were there. I had suppressed a lot of garbage and was clueless as to how it was poisoning my life.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You should still seek some counseling. At least someone to talk to you and maybe help you to see where and how it has impacted your life. A fresh perspective from a third party would do you good and maybe help you consider things you haven't considered.
> 
> I never put much stock in therapy, but when I relapsed a couple years ago I went to short term treatment and my counselor there brought out demons in me I never knew were there. I had suppressed a lot of garbage and was clueless as to how it was poisoning my life.


Maybe someday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Maybe someday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's good to keep an open mind.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Having had therapy for being a victim of childhood violence by my mother and therapy for the death of my first wife from cancer, I know first hand the value of it. I didn't think twice about getting therapy after the trauma of discovering my second wife's betrayal. Therapy has saved my life in more ways than I can think of.

Even us BS need therapy for our traumas. If we don't then we are no better than the CSA victims who never had therapy because they thought they didn't need it.


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