# HI! My name is Matt...



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

and I'm co-dependent. 

I have started the "Co-Dependant No More" book a while ago, but am having a hard time getting through it. 

Can someone provide some cliffnotes on the subtopics on how to fix co-dependency? 

Where do I get started. 

I've been in denial for a while about it I think... it's time to move past it now. Where do I start?


----------



## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

You really should read the book...


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

i'm trying... i just need something to occupy my mind while i'm at work... and i can't read during work. 

so, in the mean time........


----------



## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

spend 30 minutes a day reading it at nite before you go to bed or something like that and before you know it you'll be finished


----------



## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> i'm trying... i just need something to occupy my mind while i'm at work... and i can't read during work.
> 
> so, in the mean time........


Does it come in audio-book format?


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

ok, cmon guys... 

i'm not asking for how to read the book... i got that down (slowly but surely). 

in the mean time... cliffnotes please... 

or, share your opinions on how to overcome co-dependency. i know there is a lot more about this out there than just a book, and lots of personal opinions and experiences...


----------



## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Not sure. I haven't finished the book either. 

It's kinda a dry read...


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ haha. the truth comes out.


----------



## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

do you feel it is in all of your relationships, and is seriously negatively affecting your quality of life?


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

not in all of them, and yes.


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

i depend on others for self validation, and i am needy in my relationships... i love to be needed, and when i'm not, it's a serious blow to my self esteem.

this is most evident in my relationship wiht my wife... and i'm trying to balance what is considered a normal partnership with something that is more consuming and needful. i think my level of need is normal, but perhaps i'm the only one. 

i'm not interested in really hashing out my relationship on here, i'm just wondering what i can do to stop needing others for validation and for self fulfillment. i tell myself that i'm great, but i think deep down inside, unless others are showing me this as well, i don't really believe it. so insofacto, i need others to validate me.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Can you hit a CODA meeting during lunch? 

Cliffnotes: 

- If you think you have a problem, you do. If the other person thinks they have a problem, they do. If one of you think so and one doesn't, just one of you has a problem. 

- You can be right or you can be happy, but you rarely can be both.

- You have a duty to set boundaries of what you will and will not accept from other people regardless of who it is. If you won't accept abusive behavior, for instance, then don't accept it from someone just because you love them. 

- You're the only person who will be with you from the day you're born till the day you die, so be the one person who protects your own well-being every single day. 

That's a good start as you get through the book.


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Can you hit a CODA meeting during lunch?
> 
> Cliffnotes:
> 
> - If you think you have a problem, you do. If the other person thinks they have a problem, they do. If one of you think so and one doesn't, just one of you has a problem.


can you explain this one a bit...? 

i think that she doesn't meet me needs in a way that makes me happy, and she doesn't think there is a problem with how she meets me needs. I'm wrong? as in i need to reevaluate what needs she fills for me and how that impacts me? 

if so, how?


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> and I'm co-dependent.
> 
> I have started the "Co-Dependant No More" book a while ago, but am having a hard time getting through it.
> 
> ...


Well, I don't know about you but after I realized I was co-dependent I started noticing that whenever I was inappropriately extending myself (vs. appropriate caring gestures) that I would get a slightly irritated, even angry feeling...like why can't this person do this him/herself and thinking I would 'score points' in return, like get affection. After I started seeing myself as more human and loveable and deserving, I didn't need to 'do' stuff that I shouldn't be doing...instead I would say, you know, yesterday I cleaned and cooked and did all my household chores, today I think I will get as far as my reading for school and the store to pick up that beer for you and anything else you might need. I began to expect other people to meet me halfway in back-scratching...such as when boyfriend came to my place for dinner he never did dishes, so I went to his place for dinner and did not do dishes (including dishes he had from before, during the week, as it was Friday night...) Also I was getting up early to deliver papers so I said goodnight and really, did not do the dishes. I figured if he had time to play on the computer and watch trash t.v. on Hulu or Graboid or the neighbor's Netflix account, he could do the dishes. He typically doesn't eat breakfast, so I brought something for myself, 1/2 a bagel and melon...and that's what I ate. He said he didn't eat breakfast, he never suggested I make anything, I think he was hoping I would make him breakfast something special and foist it upon him. Well, he never suggested and he was working...so I did not. It's not like he eats breakfast when I'm there. 

Anyway, I stop schmoozing because I would get these urges to 'do' stuff for him, that he never asked or suggested, and then realized I was giving up my free time and energy so that he could waste his. Once I realized I had stuff I wanted to do with my time, for my life and my feelings of security in my life (work, school, health) I started evening things up.

Unfortunately, if you're involved with a narcissist, they'll start some kind of argument with you if you start behaving like that, don't fall for it, just back away. Narcissists get very antsy when their supply starts being short.

Codependents do, do things they shouldn't, in order to keep a relationship going. Some relationships need to end, because the other person can't adjust to a co-dependent not being a co-dependent. This is normal, and once you get used to being normal, and give yourself a chance at a normal relationship, the codependent relationship will not feel good any more.

You will, as you become less co-d, become more verbally empathetic. You will express dismay or concern that someone has got themselves under water, but you won't feel compelled to bail them out. In fact, constantly bailing people out while also taking care of yourself, successfully, leads to resentment from the other party. They know that you know that they know that you can not only cope with your own life, but the sh*t from their that they can't take care of for themselves. So while you THINK you are building up points from them, you're actually building up their hidden resentment and anger...and fear of losing you. This is when they start saying things like your eyebrows look funny, or they don't feel attracted to you any more...


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^thanks for the thoughts... Im not much of a caretaker... I do find I say yes when I mean no... and I've fixed that. I think I'm much more reliant on the quality of the relationship as a determining factor for my place in her heart...definitely co-dependent there. But I don't get used a lot... I dnot put up with that. I keep telling myself that my needs are normal but when I talk with her, she makes me feel like I'm asking a lot... I wonder who's right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## imjustlost (Dec 11, 2011)

mattyjman said:


> I keep telling myself that my needs are normal but when I talk with her, she makes me feel like I'm asking a lot... I wonder who's right?


What are your needs?


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^basic really...

- love and affection in a way i understand (at least make an effort to speak my love language)
- compromise, and when you don't get your way, don't ruin it for me by pouting
- meet my sexual needs, desire me and be affectionate
- respect
- be less defensive and sincerely apologize when she's hurt me
- communicate on a deeper level - more intimate conversations
- surprises are nice, but more the thought behind it that matters - doesn't need to be often, but recieving them makes me feel like i matter when she's away

these are what i would consider my basic needs. she either a.) doesn't understand them or b.) can't understand why they are important because she is happy in the relationship.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> can you explain this one a bit...?
> 
> i think that she doesn't meet me needs in a way that makes me happy, and she doesn't think there is a problem with how she meets me needs. I'm wrong? as in i need to reevaluate what needs she fills for me and how that impacts me?
> 
> if so, how?


Who has the problem? 










Read it like a multiplication table. If I think something's a problem, but she doesn't, then it's ME horizontally and vertically. If it's her thinking there's a problem, and I do too, then HER vertical meets my horizontal, or vice versa. If HER problem isn't shared by me, then only the HER/HER match up.

When nobody thinks there's a problem, there's no problem. If the ME says "there's no problem," then it's only the other person's problem, and only to the degree that THEY perceive a problem. If they think, "OMG this is a huge problem!" they'll have a different attitude than if they think "Pfft... That's not much of a problem."

The problem with your list of needs (above) is not the needs, but the way they're not measurable. How do you know if she's doing enough? How does she know? When compatibility isn't present, measurement is what is necessary to find a middle ground.


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Who has the problem?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


interesting...

trying to digest this, but what's functionally wrong to the core is i have a problem with her not showing me love in the way that I've told her I need (asked). So, she doesn't have a problem, because it deals with me, not her. She's happy. Isn't that her problem though, that she's not meeting my needs? (regardless of whether or not she thinks it's a problem, it still is.) How do I frame that in a way that makes me feel like it's my problem and that I have a way to fix it? I can't change her, so how do you fix that? 

Interesting comment on the measurements... i get what you are saying when you make goals... seems terribly wrong to put metrics on the relationship, doesn't it though. In order to meet this goal, you'll need to do "x" 3 times a week, tell me this way, etc... 

In what way would you measure my above listed needs?


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> interesting...
> 
> trying to digest this, but what's functionally wrong to the core is i have a problem with her not showing me love in the way that I've told her I need (asked). So, she doesn't have a problem, because it deals with me, not her. She's happy. Isn't that her problem though, that she's not meeting my needs? (regardless of whether or not she thinks it's a problem, it still is.) How do I frame that in a way that makes me feel like it's my problem and that I have a way to fix it? I can't change her, so how do you fix that?
> 
> ...



Exactly. She's happy, so she doesn't have a problem with what's going on. If you do, then it's your problem. As far as "should" she have a problem with it if you do? Well, not necessarily. You might have unreasonable expectations, in which case she is better off ignoring the issue. On the other hand, one element of a loving relationship is a *willingness* to take on a partner's problems sometimes. Only you can decide if her unwillingness to do this is a deal breaker for you. 

Often, these situations are a little like this: 

One person says, "I've given you a nickel every day for the last five years! I'm always giving you money!" 

And another replying, "Less than a hundred bucks over five years has not made much of a difference in my life." 

Both may be technically correct, but neither of them is being very productive.

Using metrics provides a checks & balances that lets you start off where you are and find improvement. It's true that in a healthy relationship, they shouldn't be necessary, just like chemotherapy would be disastrous for a healthy person, but when a cancer is involved, it can be lifesaving. Your relationship has a cancer growing, and metrics *might* help you get healthier, although by themselves they probably won't be enough to heal your relationship.


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ all very helpful stuff Kathy... thanks. 

so is this part of being co-dependent and this being a symptom?? 

or is this more just rational relationship discussion? 

i'd like to say i'm co-dependent, because i think it would easy to fit a profile and fix it, but deep down inside, i don't think i am. i simply have needs that used to be met, and aren't, for whatever reason. either that, or my needs are more aware to me know then when we first met. but that doesn't make me co-dependent does it?

in the co-dependent book, there are the list of things that co-dependents "tend to do" or "may" behave one way or the other... but the items listed are so broad that over half the population can fit the characteristics, no? does that make them co-dependent? i don't really know where i'm going with this, but i think i'm fighting to say that the way i think about things and want things are normal. normal to me, to others, etc. that i don't have unreasonable expectations. but because i have a wife that makes me feel like these things are irrelevant to her, and thus should be to me, it creates a vacuum where these things are needed even more. am i making sense?


----------



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> ^ all very helpful stuff Kathy... thanks.
> 
> so is this part of being co-dependent and this being a symptom??
> 
> ...


This is one of the problems I've had with typical therapeutic approaches. Often labels are used with normal things, and often they're misused, but the bottom line is to find out what does and does not work for you. 

In my opinion, the basic idea of codependency is that a person cannot feel good about themselves without getting approval from others. Is that you? Only you can answer that accurately. If your wife continues as she has been, does it affect how you feel about you to a degree that interferes with your ability to meet your responsibilities, feel good about yourself, or maintain other relationships? Do you change your leisure activities to try to please her? 

Healthy relationships have some of these elements, and so do healthy people. Codependents struggle with these things most of their lives, whether they recognize it or not. 

To reduce it to a base level again... if you aren't happy, what are you doing to make change in YOUR life regardless of what SHE does?


----------

