# Questions for those who have cheated



## ip2013 (Apr 9, 2013)

Have you ever cheated on a partner/spouse? (It doesn’t matter if it was in the distant past or recent history.) I would love your input regarding these questions. No judgment, just some basic research.

1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?
2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)
3. Do you consider yourself to be a religious or spiritual person?
4. If so, did your infidelity affect your religiosity or spirituality?
5. Is there anything you wish your partner could understand about your infidelity?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

1) Lack of intimacy was the single biggest factor, as well as a healthy dose of selfishness (i.e. believing I "deserved" a satisfying sex life while not being brave/strong enough to get out of a bad marriage first). 

2) I feel like I've lost some of my morality, and that bothers me. I always considered myself a "good" person, and that I could be honest with anyone about any aspect of my life. Now, I've got a big dark secret that I'd prefer nobody find out about it. I'm not proud of that at all. But I don't necessarily feel guilty about it, most likely because my STBXW never found out about it, so I never experienced her pain.

3) No, not really. My marriage was a civil marriage, not a religious one. So the vows I broke were to my wife, not to God.

4) No

5) Wedding vows are a multi-faceted thing. Unilaterally shutting down our sex life was as much a breaking of our vows as my cheating was. Neither one justifies the other, however. And both of us made our own decisions on how to handle our lives that we'll have to live with.

Don't know if it helps, but there you go.

C


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

PBear said:


> 1) Lack of intimacy was the single biggest factor, as well as a healthy dose of selfishness (i.e. believing I "deserved" a satisfying sex life while not being brave/strong enough to get out of a bad marriage first).
> 
> 2) I feel like I've lost some of my morality, and that bothers me. I always considered myself a "good" person, and that I could be honest with anyone about any aspect of my life. Now, I've got a big dark secret that I'd prefer nobody find out about it. I'm not proud of that at all. But I don't necessarily feel guilty about it, most likely because my STBXW never found out about it, so I never experienced her pain.
> 
> ...


Not really. You were well aware of her shutting down the sex, so you could make an informed decision re getting out. 
She, OTOH, was deprived of a similar opportunity.
Whenever I see the allegation that failing to live up to other aspects of the relationship is the same as cheating , I wonder why the person making such a statement fails to consider the clandestine nature of his breach vs the obvious nature of the other breaches.
See, to me, that is the key. Partners will often fail to live up to commitments. But, in infidelity, the failure is hidden so the offended party cannot act in an informed manner.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

freedom7 said:


> Not really. You were well aware of her shutting down the sex, so you could make an informed decision re getting out.
> She, OTOH, was deprived of a similar opportunity.
> Whenever I see the allegation that failing to live up to other aspects of the relationship is the same as cheating , I wonder why the person making such a statement fails to consider the clandestine nature of his breach vs the obvious nature of the other breaches.
> See, to me, that is the key. Partners will often fail to live up to commitments. But, in infidelity, the failure is hidden so the offended party cannot act in an informed manner.


I'm not saying I made the right decision. I should have left the marriage, which is what I ended up doing anyway.

As far as concealed vs obvious... We had numerous discussions about the issues in our marriage. Yet my wife refused to even attempt to lose weight to improve her self image (her idea, I was fine with her weight), she refused to see a doctor to make sure her sex drive wasn't medical or tied to her BC pills, she continually blocked intimacy in our marriage in deliberate ways. It was only after YEARS of that behaviour that I considered cheating. She had plenty of opportunities to end the marriage if she wasn't interested in participating fully.

In any case, I was answering the original post to try to provide input on what thoughts were running through on cheater's mind. Whether you or anyone else agrees with my thoughts is not my concern.

C


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

1. Loneliness, lack of connection and attention, resentment. Looking back I think I was selfish. 
2. At first, it made me feel alive. It woke me up and made me realize what I was missing in my marriage. I had been numb for so long. Later, I felt like I let myself down. I had cheated on every boyfriend I ever had, so when I got married I wanted things to be different. I was faithful for 12 years. I let my guard down while on vacation and met someone. I thought once my husband found out he would want a divorce but he didn't. It sure got his attention though. 
3 & 4. No
5. That I still resent that it took another man coming into the picture for him to make the changes he needed to make. And then went back to his old ways 6 months later.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

ip2013 said:


> Have you ever cheated on a partner/spouse? (It doesn’t matter if it was in the distant past or recent history.) I would love your input regarding these questions. No judgment, just some basic research.
> 
> 1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?
> 
> ...


See above in bold.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> See above in bold.
> 2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)
> 
> *Guilty, guilty, and more guilty! Not wanting to believe what you had become! Always wanting to quit, but after a 4-6 weeks another ONS was usually in the works*



I tend to stay out of these threads for obvious reasons but I have this one question here. 

So what was the process during weeks 4-6 that edged you towards disregarding your guilt about another ONS ?

This is the crux I don't and never ever get with cheaters - where in that little time frame does something just go BANG in your head and it's suddenly okay to do it ? What is behind that ?

What are the processes exactly in your head that legitimize and validate you sailing onwards into infidelity that were until then shrouded in doubt and guilt 

I certainly have no idea what that can be living with two serial cheats spread over 20+ years. 

I figure if I can learn what the mental process of the cheater is I may be able to avoid another one


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

Flygirl said:


> 1. Loneliness, lack of connection and attention, resentment. Looking back I think I was selfish.
> 2. At first, it made me feel alive. It woke me up and made me realize what I was missing in my marriage. I had been numb for so long. Later, I felt like I let myself down. I had cheated on every boyfriend I ever had, so when I got married I wanted things to be different. I was faithful for 12 years. I let my guard down while on vacation and met someone. I thought once my husband found out he would want a divorce but he didn't. It sure got his attention though.
> 3 & 4. No
> 5. That I still resent that it took another man coming into the picture for him to make the changes he needed to make. *And then went back to his old ways 6 months later.*




Do you understand that you and him are on a destructive path and something needs to be done? 

If he is not willing to do the work, do you want to stay in a marriage that will be an ongoing struggle for you?

Are you staying just to punish yourself for your affair?


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

PBear said:


> I'm not saying I made the right decision. I should have left the marriage, which is what I ended up doing anyway.
> 
> As far as concealed vs obvious... We had numerous discussions about the issues in our marriage. Yet my wife refused to even attempt to lose weight to improve her self image (her idea, I was fine with her weight), she refused to see a doctor to make sure her sex drive wasn't medical or tied to her BC pills, she continually blocked intimacy in our marriage in deliberate ways. It was only after YEARS of that behaviour that I considered cheating. She had plenty of opportunities to end the marriage if she wasn't interested in participating fully.
> 
> ...


I was just responding to the part equating two falings.Yours was concealed, so she had no opportunity to act with knowledge. Hers was open and allowed you to make an informed decision. So, I think yours was more diabolical.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

rrrbbbttt said:


> [/B]
> 
> Do you understand that you and him are on a destructive path and something needs to be done?
> 
> ...


Yes. To be completely honest I think I stay because I'm afraid. I know that makes me sound stupid and weak but it's true. I married young and he's all I know. I haven't worked since I was teen. I have a plan to finish school (I'm about half way through) and then after I get my son off to college in 2 years, I will make a move. I don't really punish myself for the affair. In some ways it was a blessing in disguise. It opened my eyes and made me realize I deserve more. Thanks for your reply.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

I want to make remarks myself but I would rather learn and hear what people have to say. I hope others as well will accept this as a chance for a learning experience and not some giant flame war over over morals.

For me the hear that people regretted the affair makes me happy. It makes me feel my STBXW will one day feel the same, because right now it seems like I'm the biggest POS to her and that I abused her some way and had the affair.

We all know affairs are not an excuse, even those who did it and are posting. If anything it is a great thread to send someone who is new and in the same boat being the Wayward Spouse. Its right from the horses mouth.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> I want to make remarks myself but I would rather learn and hear what people have to say. I hope others as well will accept this as a chance for a learning experience and not some giant flame war over over morals.
> 
> For me the hear that people regretted the affair makes me happy. It makes me feel my STBXW will one day feel the same, because right now it seems like I'm the biggest POS to her and that I abused her some way and had the affair.
> 
> We all know affairs are not an excuse, even those who did it and are posting. If anything it is a great thread to send someone who is new and in the same boat being the Wayward Spouse. Its right from the horses mouth.


I'm open to any feedback. Negative or positive. I've found that if it stings, there's probably some truth to it. I know what I did was wrong. It's one of the most hurtful things you can do to your spouse. I'm not proud of my actions but I'm not exactly ashamed either. One bad decision does not define who I am. I want to understand why I cheated and I want to learn from it. I'm sure some people will judge me and that's ok. I understand that we all have different filters based on past experiences and I believe that people come in and out of your life for reason.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

PBear said:


> We had numerous discussions about the issues in our marriage. Yet my wife refused to even attempt to lose weight to improve her self image (her idea, I was fine with her weight), she refused to see a doctor to make sure her sex drive wasn't medical or tied to her BC pills, she continually blocked intimacy in our marriage in deliberate ways.
> C



I completely understand and agree with you although cheating is not justified under any circumstance, I'm sure if your wife would have known or found out, she would have as almost any spouse, work out, eat healthy, kill depression, raise libido/increase sex drive, etc etc all the things that should have been done before and during the marriage.


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## Hurt&confused92 (Apr 6, 2013)

in reading these posts, I thought I would find something to help me understand my husband's behavior but all this is doing is making me feel worse...

PBear comments that his wife was fat and lacked intimacy. Not saying these are my own issues but I have self esteem issues to the fact that I had two babies and my body doesnt look the same. I also do work a demanding job that pays well and I take care of the bills. I never harped on me making more money than him as I think of our funds as one large pot but i need this job to make ends meet. 

2nd, Flygirl cheated because of a lack of connection, attention and resentment..Again, not saying this is the 100% reason why he cheated but being a mom of small kids, working, cleaning (cant afford a nanny) and what not...I dont know how to find time. 

When i try to talk to understand the reason..he shuts down. Any of the open folks here understand this? 

Does he not want me anymore? Our sex life isnt as good because we are not connected. We are not connected because we are trapped in our own being with the kids, work, the house etc. 

I want to spice it up but I find it hard when I am plagued with images of him and someone else. I desire him less when i know I havent been the only one. Also, it hurts to think that he DIDNT want me and that when we did make love was it ME he was thinking of or someone else?

I am trying to find answers and I am not sure where to go from here.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

To be clear, I never said my wife was "fat". I said that she had body image issues, mainly because SHE thought she was fat. I never commented on her weight, and as far as I know, I never did anything to make her self-conscious of it. I was very happy getting intimate with her when she allowed it, and actively tried to demonstrate that to her. And as an FYI, my current GF is around the same size (height/weight) as my STBXW, and I have no complaints at all. 

Having said that, I do think that my turning over a new leaf (health-wise) was a killing blow to our sex life. I lost 55 pounds, going from 220 to 165. At that point, my wife actively started avoiding the bedroom till I was asleep, although I didn't clue in that it was probably a way to avoid intimacy until after I moved out. But even if I would have put the pieces altogether at the time, I don't think it would have made much of a difference, as she was still refusing to deal with her self-image issues, and I would have been wanting to get fat again just to make her feel better about herself. 

As far as my "diabolical" betrayal, I can't argue with that reasoning. But I'm not going to lose much sleep over "who did worse to who"...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurt&confused92 (Apr 6, 2013)

PBear said:


> To be clear, I never said my wife was "fat". I said that she had body image issues, mainly because SHE thought she was fat. I never commented on her weight, and as far as I know, I never did anything to make her self-conscious of it. I was very happy getting intimate with her when she allowed it, and actively tried to demonstrate that to her. And as an FYI, my current GF is around the same size (height/weight) as my STBXW, and I have no complaints at all.
> 
> Having said that, I do think that my turning over a new leaf (health-wise) was a killing blow to our sex life. I lost 55 pounds, going from 220 to 165. At that point, my wife actively started avoiding the bedroom till I was asleep, although I didn't clue in that it was probably a way to avoid intimacy until after I moved out. But even if I would have put the pieces altogether at the time, I don't think it would have made much of a difference, as she was still refusing to deal with her self-image issues, and I would have been wanting to get fat again just to make her feel better about herself.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarity....I read " Yet my wife refused to even attempt to lose weight to improve her self image (her idea, I was fine with her weight)" and immediate thought (as it appears) that you had an issue with her weight but it was HER own perception of body image that brought you down. Did she constantly mention it or talk negatively to you about it?

I'm not judging just trying to make sure that I personally dont fall into that dark place. In years past men used to hit on me and over the last few years I hardly even get a glace or notice. It hurts also when H cheated, I immediately thought it was because I was "so unattractive". 

Im happy that you are happy, just sorry that it took your experience to get there. I am trying to save my marriage, which it appears is the BIGGEST difference between me and your STBXW.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hurt&confused92 said:


> in reading these posts, I thought I would find something to help me understand my husband's behavior but all this is doing is making me feel worse...
> 
> PBear comments that his wife was fat and lacked intimacy. Not saying these are my own issues but I have self esteem issues to the fact that I had two babies and my body doesnt look the same. I also do work a demanding job that pays well and I take care of the bills. I never harped on me making more money than him as I think of our funds as one large pot but i need this job to make ends meet.
> 
> ...


You have to find time...the relationship between a husband and wife is the foundation for all those other things you mentioned. My husband has a stressful job. He says when things are good between us (my idea of good and his are very different) he can handle any problem thrown his way at work. When things are bad between us he said he feels overwhelmed and out of balance at work. I know my husband is the type of guy who could not handle me being the bread winner. His ego would never allow it. So much of his identity and self worth as a man is wrapped up in being a good provider. So much that the other parts of our marriage suffer because of it. Do you think you being the main bread winner affects the way he feels about himself? My husband needs me to need him. He is at his best when I'm in crisis mode. He likes to fix problems.....unless it involves looking at himself and his own problems.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

freedom7 said:


> I was just responding to the part equating two falings.Yours was concealed, so she had no opportunity to act with knowledge. Hers was open and allowed you to make an informed decision. So, I think yours was more diabolical.


Instead of sitting in judgement, why dont you just read the responses and learn from this thread? It isnt easy to come forward with this kind of thing.


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## Hurt&confused92 (Apr 6, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> You have to find time...the relationship between a husband and wife is the foundation for all those other things you mentioned. My husband has a stressful job. He says when things are good between us (my idea of good and his are very different) he can handle any problem thrown his way at work. When things are bad between us he said he feels overwhelmed and out of balance at work. I know my husband is the type of guy who could not handle me being the bread winner. His ego would never allow it. So much of his identity and self worth as a man is wrapped up in being a good provider. So much that the other parts of our marriage suffer because of it. Do you think you being the main bread winner affects the way he feels about himself? My husband needs me to need him. He is at his best when I'm in crisis mode. He likes to fix problems.....unless it involves looking at himself and his own problems.


This may be an issue but I dont know how I would fix that. He does mention from time to time all that I do but i would gladly stay at home and raise kids if he would/could provide. I dont believe in seperate accounts nor do i believe in "mine and his"...i believe in "ours" and I love to share so i dont understand the issue personally but guess I can somewhat see that. But is that enough to make someone cheat? I dont know what that would prove or how that makes one feel better. I guess he felt he was needed and desired???...but I need him and desire him more than anyone as my lover and father of my kids. (im back to being lost...sorry)

I talked him into going back to school but his "drive" and mine are different. There are things that I think he needs to work on personally but nothing that I would consider a character flaw. 

Thanks for reaching back out....you guys are helping me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ip2013 said:


> Have you ever cheated on a partner/spouse? (It doesn’t matter if it was in the distant past or recent history.) I would love your input regarding these questions. No judgment, just some basic research.
> 
> 1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?
> *My wife's affair*
> ...


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ip2013 said:


> Have you ever cheated on a partner/spouse? (It doesn’t matter if it was in the distant past or recent history.) I would love your input regarding these questions. No judgment, just some basic research.
> 
> 1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?
> 2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)
> ...


1) I was addicted to the chase. I enjoyed seeing how far things could go. It wasn't anything that my wife wasn't doing for me at home.
2) Excited while in pursuit or during the act, but empty afterwards. Honestly nothing I did was better than the intimacy with my wife. It was all about the thrill of the hunt.
3) Yep, very religious, I know this is a conflict
4) It kind of made me want to avoid church because I didn't feel I was living right
5) No, it wasn't anything she could have done to prevent it. And there certainly wasn't anything she could learn or understand from it. In all honesty she should have just left. I was a first class jerk. A lot of people blame themselves when their partner strays, but in all honesty I think most people cheat because of there own selfishness.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

PBear said:


> Yet my wife refused to even attempt to lose weight to improve her self image (her idea, I was fine with her weight), she refused to see a doctor to make sure her sex drive wasn't medical or tied to her BC pills, she continually blocked intimacy in our marriage in deliberate ways. It was only after YEARS of that behaviour that I considered cheating.C





Flygirl said:


> 1. Loneliness, lack of connection and attention, resentment. Looking back I think I was selfish.


Like stealing, cheating on ones spouse can never be entirely justified. In a perfect world, there would be no marriages as described above. This is not a perfect world. Hence any spouse who willfully denies their partner attention, love, affection, and making their partner a priority (including taking care of themselves) is at dire risk of being cheated on, probably is being cheated on, and will likely be replaced with a more suitable mate at some point. "you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences" applies to both spouses.
When a person is treated badly and decides to cheat, they don't give a damn about the rules and ignore them. Like they say, "Ainsi va la vie".


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

1. I had several contributing factors: I lost a lot of weight, I was very sucessful in my career, I had a medical condition that made me fear death, my wife and I had sex issues for 17 years, I was bitter about how she approached them, and I was in denial about my own issues.

2. Horribly guilty, from the moment it happened, even in the room with the woman I had my ONS with. She tried to console me, it was odd.

3. Yes, I am active in my faith, and actually did pre-marital counseling with couples approaching thier wedding day. As an aside, I have contacted all of the couples we met with and talked to them. They were also invited to our vow renewal ceremony.

4. It had a profound affect on me. Prior to this incident I never felt like i needed much, that I was doing well. I think this incident was a catalyst to a great deal of self awareness and it removed my ability to lie about my behavior. I had a lot of issues that I just dealth with and never really addressed.

5. My wife and I have talked about it a great deal. It has been a year now.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Headspin said:


> I tend to stay out of these threads for obvious reasons but I have this one question here.
> 
> So what was the process during weeks 4-6 that edged you towards disregarding your guilt about another ONS ?.
> 
> ...



I don't know about the avoidance peace...........dare I bring in highly religious people might help. Stats being what they are in my life experience people who are post 25 and are actively involved in a church are much less likely to cheat imo.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Hurt&confused92 said:


> Thanks for the clarity....I read " Yet my wife refused to even attempt to lose weight to improve her self image (her idea, I was fine with her weight)" and immediate thought (as it appears) that you had an issue with her weight but it was HER own perception of body image that brought you down. Did she constantly mention it or talk negatively to you about it?
> 
> I'm not judging just trying to make sure that I personally dont fall into that dark place. In years past men used to hit on me and over the last few years I hardly even get a glace or notice. It hurts also when H cheated, I immediately thought it was because I was "so unattractive".
> 
> Im happy that you are happy, just sorry that it took your experience to get there. I am trying to save my marriage, which it appears is the BIGGEST difference between me and your STBXW.


There were multiple issues spawning from her self-image issues. When we did have sex, she preferred darkness or at most, candlelight. Positions were limited. And most importantly, she would simply avoid intimacy whenever possible because she wasn't comfortable being naked with me. When we had our "problem discussions", she was pretty clear that it was her self image that was the root of our reduced sex life. She never asked me to do anything to improve it. Yet she pretty actively refused to even start to deal with it. So I started to resent her weight not because I found it unattractive, but because of the negative impact it had on our sex life. Imagine having your MIL come to visit, and your spouse refusing to have sex with you while she's staying with you. As much as you might like your MIL, at some point you're likely to resent her presence because of that, and then you start to resent your spouse because they're not dealing with the problem. 

My GF, on the other hand... I think she's a bit self-conscious about her weight. She's called me after shopping trips in tears because she hates how she looks in 17 mirrors. But our sex life is still much the same (incredible!) as it was 30 pounds ago, with the exception of no more pics, which was more her thing than mine. She accepts when I say that she's beautiful and she turns me on. She doesn't let her feelings negatively affect us. And just as importantly, she doesn't whine and moan about her weight and then go eat a can of Pringles and drink a bottle of wine. She's DOING something about it. She's taking dance classes, hitting the gym again, and changing up her eating. 

Not sure if this help, and it's kind of derailing the thread. But there you go... . 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?

There were many but primarily it was my inability to communicate how I felt in the marriage. I was unable to communicate that I felt she was controlling, cold, sexless, unhappy with me. If I could have communicated better, I would have (a) been able to fix the problems or (b) move on before I cheated.

2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)

I always felt guilty about it, BUT strangely enough I felt better about being married since it took one big issue (lack of sex) off the table.

3. Do you consider yourself to be a religious or spiritual person?

No

4. If so, did your infidelity affect your religiosity or spirituality?

No. It didn't make me lore or less spiritual.

5. Is there anything you wish your partner could understand about your infidelity? 

No. It was wrong and the wrong way to handle a marriage that had issues. I saw it as the coward's way to make things better for ME, not the marriage.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I'm open to any feedback. Negative or positive. I've found that if it stings, there's probably some truth to it. I know what I did was wrong. It's one of the most hurtful things you can do to your spouse. I'm not proud of my actions but I'm not exactly ashamed either. One bad decision does not define who I am. I want to understand why I cheated and I want to learn from it. I'm sure some people will judge me and that's ok. I understand that we all have different filters based on past experiences and I believe that people come in and out of your life for reason.


But you've always cheated. You've cheated on every boyfriend and your husband. Not to beat you up on your statements but needed to point that out. So were all your boyfriends not putting in the work towards you for you to cheat on them all?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BobSimmons said:


> But you've always cheated. You've cheated on every boyfriend and your husband. Not to beat you up on your statements but needed to point that out. So were all your boyfriends not putting in the work towards you for you to cheat on them all?


You make an interesting point, Bob. Is this an example of blame shifting and gaslighting? "Honey, I cheated because you forgot to take the trash out. So it is all your fault."

We must presume that it was the fault of her previous boyfriends, too?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> But you've always cheated. You've cheated on every boyfriend and your husband. Not to beat you up on your statements but needed to point that out. So were all your boyfriends not putting in the work towards you for you to cheat on them all?


I've been with my husband my entire adult life. Since the day I turned 18. When I say boyfriends I meant like high school stuff. Not that it's ok to cheat on anyone at any age though. I had a very dysfunctional childhood. The kind they write books about. I was named after the woman my dad was cheating on my mom with when she was pregnant with me. I watched my dad force my mom to have sex with his friends. He would beat her all the time and make me watch. After we left him, I spent my early teen years fighting off my mom's boyfriends. One of which taped me to a chair so I couldn't resist. While I'm not making excuses for my early behavior, it's what I was taught. You don't know what you don't know. It was my normal. I believed a guy must really love you if he'd hit you to get you to stay. It's sick and twisted. I spent a long time in therapy undoing the damage. I really wanted to get it right in my marriage. So no, my early cheating was all me. I totally own it. As for my marriage, I take part of the blame for that as well.


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## Hurt&confused92 (Apr 6, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I've been with my husband my entire adult life. Since the day I turned 18. When I say boyfriends I meant like high school stuff. Not that it's ok to cheat on anyone at any age though. I had a very dysfunctional childhood. The kind they write books about. I was named after the woman my dad was cheating on my mom with when she was pregnant with me. I watched my dad force my mom to have sex with his friends. He would beat her all the time and make me watch. After we left him, I spent my early teen years fighting off my mom's boyfriends. One of which taped me to a chair so I couldn't resist. While I'm not making excuses for my early behavior, it's what I was taught. You don't know what you don't know. It was my normal. I believed a guy must really love you if he'd hit you to get you to stay. It's sick and twisted. I spent a long time in therapy undoing the damage. I really wanted to get it right in my marriage. So no, my early cheating was all me. I totally own it. As for my marriage, I take part of the blame for that as well.


OMG!!!! I will say a special prayer for you my dear. No girl should EVER deal with a childhood of such proportions!!!! I am so sorry for your life and I hope it all turns around for you soon.


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## ObjectOfAffection (Jul 12, 2012)

1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?

I lost my emotional connection to my ex husband because of built up resentment stemming from our communication issues. All of this led to me feeling unappreciated and not respected. I tried many times to bring up my issues, but I was unable to communicate my problems well, and he was unable to understand where I was coming from. Without an emotional connection I lost all attraction for my husband, and I felt hopeless on how to fix the issue. I dreaded the duty sex i was giving him once a week. I'd asked on numerous occasions to go see an MC, but he refused.

2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)

When I met my AP it felt like all the color came back into my world, and I began appreciating life again. I started picking up old hobbies I had once enjoyed, remembering life goals that I had long left on the side of the road.

But from the moment I'd kissed my AP I knew I'd ruined/broken my marriage and I couldn't look at myself in the mirror. I felt so much guilt, and was sad/crying all the time. My ex noticed something was wrong and finally offered to go to MC. My AP became an escape from the corpse of my marriage I faced every day when I went home. I knew I shouldn't see him anymore, knew it was bad for me and my marriage, but I kept doing it, and getting in deeper. My affair was the reason for my guilt, but also my escape from guilt. 

3. Do you consider yourself to be a religious or spiritual person?
Used to be, my husband was not religious and I chose to neglect this aspect of my life while I was with him.

4. If so, did your infidelity affect your religiosity or spirituality?
I'm searching for some kind of faith again but having a hard time finding it. Going to church just makes me feel like a liar and a hypocrite (because I am).

5. Is there anything you wish your partner could understand about your infidelity? 

My ex felt blindsided by my infidelity, and refuses to acknowledge that we may have had problems in our marriage prior to my affair. Of course the problems are no excuse for infidelity (there is none), but I hope he sees someday that we both contributed to issues in the marriage. I've been working with a therapist on my communication issues, and I hope he does the same (though I know he's not/won't). He thinks I'm just an evil crazy ***** who did this because I enjoyed hurting him.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> Instead of sitting in judgement, why dont you just read the responses and learn from this thread? It isnt easy to come forward with this kind of thing.


I was merely responding to the assertion that the two failings were equal. IMO, they are vastly different. 
I cannot go throuh life without making judgements. Life would be chaotic without judgement.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Like stealing, cheating on ones spouse can never be entirely justified. In a perfect world, there would be no marriages as described above. This is not a perfect world. Hence any spouse who willfully denies their partner attention, love, affection, and making their partner a priority (including taking care of themselves) is at dire risk of being cheated on, probably is being cheated on, and will likely be replaced with a more suitable mate at some point. "you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences" applies to both spouses.
> When a person is treated badly and decides to cheat, they don't give a damn about the rules and ignore them. Like they say, "Ainsi va la vie".


The honorable thing to do in these situations is to leave. Takes some courage, though, a quality cheaters seem to lack.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

ObjectOfAffection said:


> 1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?
> 
> I lost my emotional connection to my ex husband because of built up resentment stemming from our communication issues. All of this led to me feeling unappreciated and not respected. I tried many times to bring up my issues, but I was unable to communicate my problems well, and he was unable to understand where I was coming from. Without an emotional connection I lost all attraction for my husband, and I felt hopeless on how to fix the issue. I dreaded the duty sex i was giving him once a week. I'd asked on numerous occasions to go see an MC, but he refused.
> 
> ...


If you both had dissatisfaction in the marriage, and both contributed, have you wever wondered why he did not cheat and you did? Is there a difference in your level of character/integrity,in general?


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## ObjectOfAffection (Jul 12, 2012)

freedom7 said:


> If you both had dissatisfaction in the marriage, and both contributed, have you wever wondered why he did not cheat and you did? Is there a difference in your level of character/integrity,in general?


My ex wasn't dissatisfied. That's why I said he was blindsided and refuses to acknowledge we had any problems in the relationship.

Comparing my integrity to ex's isn't very helpful. Working with my therapist to figure out why I made such poor decisions has been helpful.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

Maybe if you looked at the qualities that make him more honorable than you in this respect, you could figure out how to increase integrity.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> You make an interesting point, Bob. Is this an example of blame shifting and gaslighting? "Honey, I cheated because you forgot to take the trash out. So it is all your fault."
> 
> We must presume that it was the fault of her previous boyfriends, too?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can understand why you might think that but I take full responsibility for cheating on exboyfriends. I was a horrible girlfriend. I have even apologized to them a few years ago for it. if you read my response to Bob I tried to explain it. Also, I don't believe I've placed the blame all on my husband. He didn't make me cheat. That was a choice I made. I could have done a number of things to deal with my feelings but I took the selfish way out and cheated. I tried to fix things for 12 years. I was faithful for 12 years! I begged him to pay attention. Do you have any idea what that's like? He didn't until another man entered the picture.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hurt&confused92 said:


> OMG!!!! I will say a special prayer for you my dear. No girl should EVER deal with a childhood of such proportions!!!! I am so sorry for your life and I hope it all turns around for you soon.


Thank you. That's nice of you.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

Had somehwat of a similar childhood(sexual abuse included). It never entere my mindd that that in any way would justify cheating on someone.
My Xw wanted no intimacy. I begged her to go to counseling and open up for years. Still, I did not cheat.
So, it must be something within us that is different.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> I don't know about the avoidance peace...........dare I bring in highly religious people might help. *Stats being what they are in my life experience people who are post 25 and are actively involved in a church are much less likely to cheat imo.*


stbxh is 39, and the son of a pastor. stbxh also (on occasion) delivers the sermon and is one of the Sunday School teachers.

He is also an alcohol/porn addict who frequented strip clubs throughout our marriage (he was at a strip club a few DAYS after I gave birth to our child). It wasn't until his 2nd affair with a co-worker that I found out everything (both, that I know of, lasted a total of 2.5 years)

Churches are filled with some of THE MOST immoral people you will EVER meet! But they scrub up nice for Sunday morning.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

ScorchedEarth said:


> stbxh is 39, and the son of a pastor. stbxh also (on occasion) delivers the sermon and is one of the Sunday School teachers.
> 
> He is also an alcohol/porn addict who frequented strip clubs throughout our marriage (he was at a strip club a few DAYS after I gave birth to our child). It wasn't until his 2nd affair with a co-worker that I found out everything (both, that I know of, lasted a total of 2.5 years)
> 
> Churches are filled with some of THE MOST immoral people you will EVER meet! But they scrub up nice for Sunday morning.


Swaggert, Baker and a ton of priests fall into this category.
Check out Robert Mitchum's character in "Night of the Hunter".


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

freedom7 said:


> I believe they put that forth as the reason they cheated. But, I do have trouble accepting it at face value. After all, we are talking about an entitled, dishonest person with a huge interest in selling justification to him or herslf, as well as others.


Freedom, in this thread, WS's are being specifically asked about contributing factors to their affairs. In every case that I read, they all say that doesn't JUSTIFY the affair. But I do think it's fair to say that different factors can make someone more vulnerable to bad decisions. It doesn't EXCUSE the choice, but please understand, it seems the OP's intent is to learn more about the experiences and values of WS's. 

I am sorry for the pain that has clearly brought you to this forum, but please respect the efforts being made to answer the OP's question, without projecting blame shifting or lack of responsibility where it is not due.

And, in the interest of transparency, yes, I am a WW. So feel free to decide my post is due to my selfishness and unwillingness to face negative commentary for being a cheater, and disregard it if desired.


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

No disrespect intended. But, would you not agree that the primary factors lay within the character of the Ws vs factors within the marriage?
I mean, after all, many BSs face similar issues in the marriage.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: Questions for those who have cheated*



freedom7 said:


> No disrespect intended. But, would you not agree that the primary factors lay within the character of the Ws vs factors within the marriage?
> I mean, after all, many BSs face similar issues in the marriage.


No disrespect ... but your posting style is disrespectful.
Funny how that plays out.

People participating here are opening up old scars because someone asked them to.

Lets not rub salt in and make them regret it, shall we?


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## freedom7 (Jul 13, 2012)

Yes, humorous, indeed.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

freedom7 said:


> Had somehwat of a similar childhood(sexual abuse included). It never entere my mindd that that in any way would justify cheating on someone.
> My Xw wanted no intimacy. I begged her to go to counseling and open up for years. Still, I did not cheat.
> So, it must be something within us that is different.


Where in my post did I try to justify cheating? I was explaining my mind set. I owned the behavior. I'd say we're very different.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

freedom7 said:


> I believe they put that forth as the reason they cheated. But, I do have trouble accepting it at face value. After all, we are talking about an entitled, dishonest person with a huge interest in selling justification to him or herslf, as well as others.


I never hid anything from my husband. I told him about the feelings I was having for the other guy and I told him about them before I cheated. I asked for a divorce and he said no because all the sudden he wanted to work on our marriage finally. I felt conflicted because in my mind I was done but felt like I owed it to my son to try one last time. He started making changes but the resentment I felt towards him was overwhelming. I broke things off with the other guy and my husband went right back to his old ways. And I dealt with it by running right back to that guy. The guy lives in another state so most of it was talking on the phone. I saw him once after meeting him on vacation. (He was my instructor at the resort)


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

freedom7 said:


> No disrespect intended. But, would you not agree that the primary factors lay within the character of the Ws vs factors within the marriage?
> I mean, after all, many BSs face similar issues in the marriage.


I think it's difficult to make any generalizations like this. Yes, in many cases, it can be a character flaw, a psychological defect, or a physiological one that make someone more susceptible to being a cheater. I include physiological because there is a large chemical component to an affair - the dopamine high and subsequent withdrawal. Many people are simply more prone to addiction of various chemicals, and I have to assume that can apply to cheaters as well.

In addition, since joining this forum, I have read of many cases where the BS was unwilling or unable to recognize the problems in the marriage, even when they were specifically brought to attention and the WS asked for help improving the environment. On the other hand, I have also read of BS who brought problems up to the WS pre-affair and the WS did not work to improve the marriage.

I also have to question the overall generalization on lack of character of a WS. What about someone whose morality/spirituality/cultural upbringing specifically forbids divorce? Are they not living up to their character values then to find a way to survive within a permanent, albeit unfulfilling marriage? Admittedly, that is not the case in most of the Western world, but those circumstances do exist, where an affair is considered less of a crime than divorce. 

Even in Western culture, there are many articles geared towards women that state if you are unhappy or unfulfilled in a marriage that it is your responsibility to expand your life beyond your partner - take up new hobbies, make new friends, etc. Clearly, we see time and time again here that those circumstances are rife with opportunity for at minimum an emotional affair. And while the articles are well intentioned, it seems that they are exactly the opposite of what most infidelity recovery books and marriage building experts would advise.

NOTHING justifies an affair. But, as I said before, many different factors can make someone susceptible to one, and it's not always that they are just a terrible person. They made terrible choices, but I think in many cases, those aren't necessarily a true reflection of someone's ultimate character. A reflection of their weaknesses? Absolutely. But weaknesses can be overcome once identified, if someone is truly willing to put in the work. And that requires a great deal of character, in my opinion.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

ScorchedEarth said:


> stbxh is 39, and the son of a pastor. stbxh also (on occasion) delivers the sermon and is one of the Sunday School teachers.
> 
> He is also an alcohol/porn addict who frequented strip clubs throughout our marriage (he was at a strip club a few DAYS after I gave birth to our child). It wasn't until his 2nd affair with a co-worker that I found out everything (both, that I know of, lasted a total of 2.5 years)
> 
> Churches are filled with some of THE MOST immoral people you will EVER meet! But they scrub up nice for Sunday morning.


I will disagree not that they aren't there, but the percentages aren't nearly as high. I've been in and out of churches, theologies, and doctrines for 30+ years it's not even close. Granted these aren't your typical Baptist or Catholic churches either.

You can find bad apples any and everywhere!!


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Be interesting to see how this thread develops hopefully with more input from different waywards

I still have difficulty getting my head around the fact that as they readily admit there is no excuse but then I think kind of have to find one.

Two things 

it's the _unconditiona_l nature of a true remorse that at least makes it easier to have an honorable reconciliation or I suppose a 'respectful' divorce

And for me again here is the matter of pure choice good or bad when and if the marriage has gone for them irretrievably wrong why not get out causing as little damage as you can - why choose to stay in cheat and complete decimate people on both sides of the adultery 

How is it possible to negate these huge flashing lights in one's mind

Both of these seem very obvious to me no matter what kind of fog my sexual organs my be getting into all hyped up by if they were in an affair 

For me and others do you waywards never have at any point simply think 'this will kill everybody if I do this so I'll get out of it all NOW - no OM/OW and end the marriage properly' 

And why don't you feel or see this ? Is this like a color blindness for some people? 
Is this warning alarm not going off in your heads when you gaze lovingly lustfully into the prospective lovers eyes.

It does seem that the wayward just does not possess this basic 'warning' function or innate alarm system

They seem to have the physical one all present and correct - put your finger in the flame and "no thanks fingers hurting" but emotionally there seems to be a black hole in there somewhere that can cover or hide all other avenues leading to guilt that stops any exploration of an outside emotional / sexual interest

There may be 'reasons to use for adultery but it seems the more I see I conclude that people are simply wired up in different ways and that wiring up is most likely fully formed deep in place in childhood often dictated by the earliest of childhood experiences 

Personally speaking however that still does not exclude a free thinking adult person from having choices to make and making the right ones


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## BackOnTrack (Oct 25, 2011)

.


> 1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?


1. After many years in a sex and intimacy starved marriage, I felt I had done everything I could do to try and change the situation for the better. I finally lost all hope.

2. My wife was had always had a low sex drive and was reserved when we did have sex. The woman that was pursuing me made it well known to me that she was HD and anything but reserved. I was intrigued and wanted to experience that. After years of being rejected, here was someone that really wanted me.

3. I had just lost my father to the same disease that had taken my grandmother (my father's mom) at approximately the same relatively young age . It seemed to me there was a trend that would likely kill me when I reached the same age. I felt that I was running out of time to find happiness.

4. I had planned to wait it out until the kids were older before doing things the right way. However, I felt that if I did not act soon, I would lose this OW.



> 2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)


I felt like $h*! part of the time. I felt trapped. Trapped in a bad marriage, that in my opinion at the time, had forced me to do something so low. Other times, I felt trapped in the affair. I did not want to hurt anyone. Knowing that if I ended it, she may become a bunny boiler and everyone would know what I had done. I was raised to have good morals and integrity. I had always lived up to that. Now I had failed everyone including myself. But then I justified it with the anger towards my wife for all of the years I had tried to fix my marriage and hit a brick wall.



> 3. Do you consider yourself to be a religious or spiritual person?


I was raised in a Christian household. After the loss of my father, my faith was destroyed.




> 4. If so, did your infidelity affect your religiosity or spirituality?


No



> 5. Is there anything you wish your partner could understand about your infidelity?


The only thing I can say is that I learned a lot about myself. Some good, some bad. The decision to cheat was not something I took lightly. It took a lot of extraordinary things happening in my life to get me to cross that line. I did not just fall into the affair. The choice to end the affair and own up to it was equally significant in that I would no longer allow myself to be the low integrity person that I had become.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

ip2013 said:


> 1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?
> 2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)
> 3. Do you consider yourself to be a religious or spiritual person?
> 4. If so, did your infidelity affect your religiosity or spirituality?
> 5. Is there anything you wish your partner could understand about your infidelity?



This happened about 12 years ago.

1. Lack of sex at home, lack of feeling "validated". Boredom. But mostly, I've usually been a "thrill seeker" and I liked living dangerously. This was another way of taking risks. I loved that part of it.

2. Generally, it felt exciting as hell (Obviously, or I wouldn't have done it). I felt like 10 years younger. But yes, I also felt guilty about it even while at the best times.

3. Yes.

4. The other way around. My spirituality affected my infidelity. I realized that I can't be moving in two directions at once; I couldn't keep my faith and decieving someone I love at the same time.

5. That it didn't diminish how much I loved her; and also that women who enjoy sex and actively pursue it are not all prostitutes or mentally ill. Perfectly normal women go crazy over sex sometimes. (she understands that now a lot more than she did back then)


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## Hurt&confused92 (Apr 6, 2013)

Deejo said:


> No disrespect ... but your posting style is disrespectful.
> Funny how that plays out.
> 
> People participating here are opening up old scars because someone asked them to.
> ...


Thank you for saying this....

I personally am the BS and my H cheated SEVERAL times on me. I get that "it's not my fault" per say BUT I must understand and realized that he MUST have THOUGHT something was missing for him to hurt me so. We are working on our marriage and I feel that "for better or worse" that it is my obligation as well to do what I can to do and be better. Not discounting his actions but reading other people's reasoning behind their A has helped me to "enter the cheater's mind" to understand (not agree in most cases) but understand. 

I dont want these posts to stop. This forum is for all to open up and heal. No harsh judgement please...it's not healthy for anyone.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Headspin,

I began my affair thinking that if I could fix that one aspect in my life (the intimacy), I could "hold on" in my marriage till the kids were out of the house (5+ years). However, I quickly (within weeks) realized that this was totally stupid. My affair ended when my partner decided that she wanted more than I was willing or able to give to her, and shortly after that, I told my wife I wanted out of the marriage. So yes, I realized without the "fog" that my marriage was dysfunctional and the proper solution was to end it. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

What about waywards in otherwise fulfilling marriages? 

I get the deal that when people don't work on their marriage and let resentments grow over a long time, they are opening the door ajar for crappy marriages, infidelity, divorce etc.But seriously, communication problems and such, seem to be such an easy cop-out that I can't understand. I mean someone isn't courages enough to the point that they can't give an ultimatum about what's making them unhappy but can cheat? And interestingly, a lot of WSs generally don't express their concern very strongly before the affair starts.

On the other hand, there are a couple threads here that doesn't fit in anywhere when I think about it. Such as DD-CM, Mathias's, tears's threads. Now if we scratch the surface, of course disagreements, disappointments, resentments are going to come up. But isn't it expected that every relationship between two different people to have those? And if they aren't the cause, what is? Insecurities? If so, aren't you screwed any way, as in how can you break through someone else's insecurities? Loss of attraction? This may be a bit easier to deal with, but how do you realize it beforehand? And what if the budding attraction for someone else is the cause of the problem? I mean even a strong marriage cannot come close to giving the extreme emotional ups and downs of an affair, or even a budding attraction sometimes for that matter. 

So what, everybody is screwed and we should all be living with the knowledge that someday the person who is snuggling next to us will be blatantly lying to us about their love, their fidelity etc etc?


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## His_Wife_77 (Jun 9, 2011)

1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?
- He was having a few online affairs. I caught him. Confronted him. He justified it saying that I should be doing things to prevent him from flirting, exchanging pics, sexting, Skyping other women and so forth. On top of that, he would tell me that I NEEDED to look like everything that had breast (being exaggerated of course) to get his attention. I begged him to make it right with me but he didn't think he was doing anything wrong since he wasn't "sleeping with them physically".. I was angry, devastated and resentful and so, I engaged in an affair. 

2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)
- At first, I felt justified. But afterwards, I felt like crap. There were a LARGE number of things I could have done about what was going on in my marriage and I chose the most destructive and deceptive route. I wanted to always keep it honest from my end. I could have separated and sought counseling. But I didn't. I learned alot from this.. and so did he. 

3. Do you consider yourself to be a religious or spiritual person?
Religious and spiritual, no. Do I have conviction, yes. 

4. If so, did your infidelity affect your religiosity or spirituality?
N/A

5. Is there anything you wish your partner could understand about your infidelity? 
We've been through a number of changes after my affair was brought to light. At this point, my partner DOES understand that:
- I cheated out of revenge - first and foremost. Not because I was bored, or lonely or needed a rush of some sort. I was ANGRY, resentful, emotionally crushed and bitter. Because of that, my judgement and my love for him was obscured. 
- There were SO many things missing in our marriage. We were both neglecting one another's needs. Not just him to me but me to him as well 
- That I walked around every single day feeling... like I wasn't enough for him 

Our affairs destroyed my marriage and we are now.. Building it up to what it's supposed to be.....


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> What about waywards in otherwise fulfilling marriages?
> 
> I get the deal that when people don't work on their marriage and let resentments grow over a long time, they are opening the door ajar for crappy marriages, infidelity, divorce etc.But seriously, communication problems and such, seem to be such an easy cop-out that I can't understand. I mean someone isn't courages enough to the point that they can't give an ultimatum about what's making them unhappy but can cheat? And interestingly, a lot of WSs generally don't express their concern very strongly before the affair starts.
> 
> ...


As one of the people you mentioned, I'll attempt to weigh in here. Definitely I come from a marriage with some of the LEAST "reasons" for infidelity on this forum, compared to many others that are writing here. NOTHING that I am going to write below is an excuse for my sh1tty behavior. Largely, my affair was a result of my own personal issues, lack of introspection, and selfish weakness.

1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?

I never made the conscious decision to cheat. I know that seems stupid, but it's not like I sat down and said, hmmmm... guess I'll go have an affair today. Matt and I had been leading increasingly independent lives for a few years. He told me he was lonely, and we got distracted by discovering I was pregnant, so that band-aid held us together for a few years, and gave me (maybe us?) a false sense of improvement because of the shared experience.

I have not been a very introspective person, in general. Now, as I deeply examine my life over the last year, I can recognize that I too felt lonely, but instead of really identifying that feeling and working to resolve it with Matt, I instinctively filled in the void with more work, and more interactions with other people, leading to the start of my EA. I had NO CLUE I was in an EA. I behaved totally inappropriately, and did it in front of everyone all the time, so there was nothing secret or hidden about it, until OM made it physical.

When that happened, I knew things had gone too far, but I was so emotionally entangled and so ridiculously dependent on him for the needs I'd been allowing him to fulfill that I couldn't picture my world without him, so I let it continue and get worse. Matt pointed out to me a few months ago that I probably would have been happy to let the EA continue and never be a PA. I think he's very right, but once OM upped the ante, I didn't know how else to respond without losing the EA I was so invested in. And clearly, despite my lack of awareness, I was attracted to him physically. So I didn't decide to cheat, but without really knowing it, I made myself available to that and then was too selfish and weak to stop it.

2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)

When it was just an unknown EA, I felt supported by OM and essential/valuable to him. With Matt, I hadn't felt needed or valuable to him for a long time. I didn't feel that I had anything to offer him, and generally convinced myself that at best, he didn't care if I was around and at worst, I was a burden to him. 

After OM first kissed me, I was completely shocked and confused, but then quickly let it escalate, convincing myself that I loved him. I wrestled desperately throughout the affair with the idea that I was "in love" with two people. I seem to be somewhat unusual amongst WS's in that I was always up front with OM about my love for Matt, I cried to OM many times about the confusion that I felt and asked him to help me sort it out. After D-Day 1, I was horrified by myself and what I'd done, but still felt a void from the loss of OM. So when he broke NC, I resumed the affair and escalated it again. It's the most despicable thing I have ever done in my life. After D-Day 1 I had NO intention of seeing OM ever again. I felt TRULY committed to repairing my marriage and overwhelmingly ashamed by the pain I caused Matt. But again, I was selfish and profoundly weak. I was still lying about the affair, so I had no real support from anyone because I didn't allow it due to my dishonesty. So when OM reappeared, he was the "only person" who knew what I was going through, and I sought that support and interaction.

I tried to "end" it with him so many times it was ridiculous. The first time we had sex was supposed to be the last time I ever saw him/talked to him. But I just kept going back, kept allowing contact. I thought I "needed" him and that he needed me, that I was responsible somehow for him. But I would go to him, exist in this little bubble for a short amount of time, and then re-emerge into solitary reality later, and cry, ask him what was wrong with me, spend hours on the internet reading about how to fix the marriage I was actively sabotaging. It was completely non-sensical and I was behaving in ways that were at complete odds with each other. I lost almost 40 pounds total in 6 months, often in crashes of 10-15 pounds within a few weeks, and people commented that I was a "shadow" of myself.

3. Do you consider yourself to be a religious or spiritual person?

I am not religious, but I do believe in spirituality, a sense of connection between people, energy, the earth, our universe, whatever. I believe in the power of individuals and experiences to be transformative. I never felt a real need for religion because I believed that if people were "true" to themselves they would be naturally good to others in general. I thought that I would make the same choices in my life whether I knew there was a Heaven or Hell, because I tried to just be good to myself and others each day, trying to be open and honest with the world around me.

4. If so, did your infidelity affect your religiosity or spirituality?

I have been forced to radically re-evaluate my perceptions of my own innate "goodness" and my perceptions of others as a result. I never really looked for motivations in people, I always sort of accepted that we must feel the same or think the same, especially if it was someone I felt I "knew". For an educated woman, I have lived a remarkably naive experience in some ways.

Honestly, I still consider myself spiritual, but I know now that I have, for an extended period of time, been capable of living against what I believed to be right and wrong, partially driven by selfish desires, and I think partially driven by an unrealistic view of metaphysical connections between people. I rationalized my affair by saying I was in love with two people, that I simply tapped into another well of feeling without removing any love from Matt. It's bull. I DO feel like I loved Matt throughout my affair, but I did not TREAT him with love, and certainly not with the basic respect another human being deserves. I know more than ever now that love is not a universal sensation/feeling, but an ACTION that you choose to apply to someone significant.

5. Is there anything you wish your partner could understand about your infidelity?

I think the hardest thing for Matt is the lack of logic. I believe he feels (and rightfully so) that for me to resume the affair must have required a calculated decision to inflict more harm on him. I was absolutely thoughtless and hurt him terribly, but I was not maliciously choosing to do so. I was however, clearly, incredibly SELFISH, and put my pain and confusion and needs above his, when as his wife - and more importantly, as the woman who actively LOVES him - he always needs to be prioritized above me. I think that's what love really is - choosing to do what's best and most important for the person you love at all times and knowing they prioritize you in the same way.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I believe he feels (and rightfully so) that for me to resume the affair must have required a calculated decision to inflict more harm on him. I was absolutely thoughtless and hurt him terribly, but I was not maliciously choosing to do so.


Maybe he is thinking more of an abandonment than a decision to harm him. Loneliness is a very depressing feeling.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I've been with my husband my entire adult life. Since the day I turned 18. When I say boyfriends I meant like high school stuff. Not that it's ok to cheat on anyone at any age though. I had a very dysfunctional childhood. The kind they write books about. I was named after the woman my dad was cheating on my mom with when she was pregnant with me. I watched my dad force my mom to have sex with his friends. He would beat her all the time and make me watch. After we left him, I spent my early teen years fighting off my mom's boyfriends. One of which taped me to a chair so I couldn't resist. While I'm not making excuses for my early behavior, it's what I was taught. You don't know what you don't know. It was my normal. I believed a guy must really love you if he'd hit you to get you to stay. It's sick and twisted. I spent a long time in therapy undoing the damage. I really wanted to get it right in my marriage. So no, my early cheating was all me. I totally own it. As for my marriage, I take part of the blame for that as well.


Your reasons for cheating..you were selfish, what was missing from your marriage etc

Held up against.. once your husband found out he didn't divorce you but boy did it get his attention..

..it took another man to get into the picture..you resented that..

It's very easy to surmise and finger point, your husband isn't here to defend himself, you blame your dysfunctional childhood and he could have his own equally valid reasons for whatever he did.. or let's flip it, your husband took in a damaged soul, he lived with it, managed to cope in his own way using his own coping mechanisms, it's never been easy for the both of you but you got married..there must have been love somewhere..

But you've always been a cheater, before your husband now with your husband. Those are choices you made. Careful considered decisions. You could get a divorce then go and sow your oats. But you choose to cheat yet still afterwards you haven't left him instead still sort of blaming your hubby oh so subtly. 
For me it's always black and white. Cheaters can find a multitude of very good reasons for infidelity yet the one inescapable truth is that they go into it knowing the absolute hurt they will bring to their partner...and they still do it.

You take some of the blame..but you're absolutely lighting up your husband's flaws here..and he's not here to defend himself. Why not just leave? Isn't that the most honest thing to do?


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> I can understand why you might think that but I take full responsibility for cheating on exboyfriends. I was a horrible girlfriend. I have even apologized to them a few years ago for it. if you read my response to Bob I tried to explain it. Also, I don't believe I've placed the blame all on my husband. He didn't make me cheat. That was a choice I made. I could have done a number of things to deal with my feelings but I took the selfish way out and cheated. I tried to fix things for 12 years. I was faithful for 12 years! I begged him to pay attention. Do you have any idea what that's like? He didn't until another man entered the picture.


Flygirl, I think a lot of WW feel the way that you do, but don't have the guts to say so. I had the same thoughts...I've been faithful all this time and my husband acts like this is marriage and he is entitled to have me around. Then when I admitted to falling for another guy, he cared for a good month or two. 

It was your choice to have the affair, just like it was your husband's choice to be blissfully ignorant to your needs. Neither makes the other ok. I hope you stick around TAM.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> Your reasons for cheating..you were selfish, what was missing from your marriage etc
> 
> Held up against.. once your husband found out he didn't divorce you but boy did it get his attention..
> 
> ...


I'm not blaming my childhood. You can't deny it doesn't have some affect on who you become though. I knew it would hurt my husband. I just didn't care at the time (selfish). I wish I would have had the courage to do things the right way but I didn't. I was afraid. If that makes me a horrible person in your eyes, I understand. Yes, I agree that my husband took in damaged goods when he got me. Very damaged. No matter what happens between us I will always be thankful that he could see past that. He provided a safe and stable place for me to begin working on undoing the damage. My husband cheated long before I did and it was with my sister. As far as I know, it was just a kiss. So I do know how bad it hurts to be betrayed. It still hurts when I think about it. I forgave them both a long time ago. I never brought it up before because it had nothing to do with our current marriage problems or me cheating.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Thank you Annie Ash!


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> I'm not blaming my childhood. You can't deny it doesn't have some affect on who you become though. I knew it would hurt my husband. I just didn't care at the time (selfish). I wish I would have had the courage to do things the right way but I didn't. I was afraid. If that makes me a horrible person in your eyes, I understand. Yes, I agree that my husband took in damaged goods when he got me. Very damaged. No matter what happens between us I will always be thankful that he could see past that. He provided a safe and stable place for me to begin working on undoing the damage. My husband cheated long before I did and it was with my sister. As far as I know, it was just a kiss. So *I do know how bad it hurts to be betrayed.* It still hurts when I think about it. I forgave them both a long time ago. I never brought it up before because it had nothing to do with our current marriage problems or me cheating.


Bear with me as this is so emotive. I find this incomprehensible - this bit right there.

First I appreciate your honesty and I will try to stay focused on my temper here.

You actually know _how bad it hurts_ to be betrayed .............. but you went on and committed betrayal

Here is a think a huge flaw, that is still there if I may say.

You cannot have appreciated the pain of betrayal that happened to you because had you suffered the true depth of pain and suffering that causes, you could not possibly have gone out and perpetrated that very same betrayal upon somebody you supposedly love! You simply would not do it if you understand totally the huge damage it will inflict.

Would you tell your closest and dearest to put there hand into the fire ? NO of course not
Why not? you have experienced that pain and know fully the folly and pain it will cause so you try to save others the very same pain.

This is it - you do NOT understand or experience, in the same way as most people, the pain of cheating of being cheated upon. You cannot - if you did properly you would not for a second consider cheating upon somebody else especially somebody you supposedly loved.

Some of the things you say are my stbxw to the letter

"I wish I would have had the courage to do things the right way but I didn't. I was afraid" ( afraid of what ?)

My answer to that the first time was "if that is the case then you have to get out - you cannot surely will not choose to stay in a marriage and completely obliterate your kids husband wives and kids of other families etc etc" 

So like you she chose, stayed and did exactly that knowingly consciously the deception lying hurt destruction and calamity that would ensue.

It's hard for you to hear but this all paints her as a person with a black dark heart for me . Others tell me no surely not circumstance "lead" her to this path etc etc "her issues". Again the natural tendency is always to give somebody the benefit of the doubt but in my experience it always ends up giving them, the perpetrator, a free blameless ride home and hey! onto the next one.

Again this is not personal as I do not know you but how do you manage to look inside yourself and be comfortable with your actions. Does any of this not make you realize you will always have this hole this gap that can never be filled. That you have to treat yourself internally.

You are no doubt a nice person but so is my stbxw - you would completely be bowled over by her and disbelieving of me in ten minutes flat if you met her - that is how dark she, is the self deception is the biggest thing that comes out of all of it for me. She still does not recognize, acknowledge her colossal betrayals 

I'm currently trying desperately to get an ounce of remorse from my stbew as she still blameshifts still hints at my faults for her actions !!!

This thread is about us trying to understand you but can you understand us !?? Does this in any way help in terms of your future behavior in a relationship. I'd pray to god that it does


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hurt&confused92 said:


> Thanks for the clarity....I read " Yet my wife refused to even attempt to lose weight to improve her self image (her idea, I was fine with her weight)" and immediate thought (as it appears) that you had an issue with her weight but it was HER own perception of body image that brought you down. Did she constantly mention it or talk negatively to you about it?
> 
> I'm not judging just trying to make sure that I personally don't fall into that dark place. In years past men used to hit on me and over the last few years I hardly even get a glace or notice. It hurts also when H cheated, I immediately thought it was because I was "so unattractive".
> 
> I'm happy that you are happy, just sorry that it took your experience to get there. I am trying to save my marriage, which it appears is the BIGGEST difference between me and your STBXW.



Hi Hurt and confused,

Not sure if this will be helpful but IMO......my Husband didn't have an affair, but 3 ONS, none of which were particularly successful (if I believe him and OW's accounts) but each of the women were a total down grade from me......i'm not being big headed, and i'm probably in better shape now than ever before(after the heartbreak diet) but seriously, all 3 were at least 2-3 sizes up from me and none of them good looking, pretty or even attractive! I have photo's to prove.

I don't think men or women cheat because of their spouses image directly....but I honestly believe there are people who cheat that really love their spouse, but, because they want something or someone to make them feel better about them self, maybe at a time in the marriage where the Wife/Husband is busy with the kids/work and maybe H/W isn't getting much in the way of sex..or an emotional need isn't being met.....we can slightly drift apart without even realising it.

I had low self esteem regarding my body, as in - didn't lord it around the bedroom naked, didn't invite H into the shower, I wasn't happy with my body after 4 babies (even though at heaviest I am size 12)....he was happy with me, always wanting sex, I wasn't......it prevented me from being as close to him as maybe I could have been. A little wall is built up and H feels he's being pushed away.

I may be wrong, but I feel these things didn't help in my case.
My H is very loving and tactile, and demonstrative, and wanting sex to him is feeling close to me and knowing he is loved and wanted....he felt unloved and he felt unwanted, he felt rejected.....so his words to me were "some body showed me attention" "some body found me attractive" it made him feel good about himself that some one noticed him....when I wasn't even looking in his direction.

Hope this helps x


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

First, let me say that Flygirl is so brave to not only come forward and talk about her infidelities, but in practically the same breath to also reveal the horrible abuse she suffered.

Let me also say that abuse, especially by primary caregivers (or allowed by primary caregivers), MESSES A CHILD UP. People who haven't suffered abuse can't imagine how fvcked up your functioning can be after that. You can't take it for granted that an abused person is going to be able to function "normally". When you're born into a sick family system, you miss out on VITAL TRAINING that will prepare you for life, and most especially, for healthy relationships (not only do you miss out on the "official" training, but you get the twisted replacement instead). I cannot emphasize this enough. 

That being said, yes, people are responsible for getting into IC and fixing that. But it does affect practically everything.



Headspin said:


> You cannot have appreciated the pain of betrayal that happened to you because had you suffered the true depth of pain and suffering that causes, you could not possibly have gone out and perpetrated that very same betrayal upon somebody you supposedly love! *You simply would not do it if you understand totally the huge damage it will inflict.*


I know people hate to hear this, but the roots of infidelity aren't always simple. You can still love someone and be willing to die for him/her and yet betray in this way because you don't see the whole picture, or really understand what you are doing to the person and will be doing to the person and the relationship. Also because you're still struggling to survive and running on old self-defense programs, which sometimes means you do very selfish and destructive things (yes, it ends up being highly counterproductive in adulthood sometimes). 



> This is it - you do NOT understand or experience, in the same way as most people, the pain of cheating of being cheated upon. You cannot - if you did properly you would not for a second consider cheating upon somebody else especially somebody you supposedly loved.


We waywards can't directly experience the pain of our betrayeds. We can only imagine and try to put ourselves in their shoes. Replay everything that happened through our minds, but from the perspective of the BS. No one can directly experience another's pain and suffering (or any other feeling). We can only do our best to understand how much damage we did to them, and how to help with what we can and to never do it again in the future.



> Again this is not personal as I do not know you but how do you manage to look inside yourself and be comfortable with your actions. Does any of this not make you realize you will always have this hole this gap that can never be filled. That you have to treat yourself internally.


Maybe Flygirl hasn't been able to look more deeply into herself until recently. I know that I deceived myself for a long time, thinking I was self-aware and facing myself, only to find I subconsciously avoided doing so when it would bring about shame or guilt. It was a matter of survival. I think you are right that there is a hole or a gap. Sometimes there are several. It's part of the damage we get left with when we've been broken. It doesn't affect everyone the same way. I can't and wouldn't attempt to speak for everyone. But I agree that anytime these situations occur (infidelity, abuse, or both), IC is in order.



> This thread is about us trying to understand you but can you understand us !?? Does this in any way help in terms of your future behavior in a relationship. I'd pray to god that it does


Headspin, I am so sorry that you have suffered so much and that your STBXW isn't remorseful.  I have personally found TAM very helpful in understanding the pain of the betrayed as well as how to help them recover as best as possible (if recovery is possible). It helps with understanding when a BS can explain what happened and how it affected him/her (like you have) instead of lambasting the WS folks who come forward and want to understand and help. It will encourage the growth and soul-searching that we need to do.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

soulpotato said:


> First, let me say that Flygirl is so brave to not only come forward and talk about her infidelities, but in practically the same breath to also reveal the horrible abuse she suffered.
> 
> Let me also say that abuse, especially by primary caregivers (or allowed by primary caregivers), MESSES A CHILD UP. People who haven't suffered abuse can't imagine how fvcked up your functioning can be after that. You can't take it for granted that an abused person is going to be able to function "normally". When you're born into a sick family system, you miss out on VITAL TRAINING that will prepare you for life, and most especially, for healthy relationships (not only do you miss out on the "official" training, but you get the twisted replacement instead). I cannot emphasize this enough.
> 
> ...


Thanks 
That's why this thread is important. Anything any information, that sheds light on the whys and wherefores of infidelity - anything that helps to lessen the pain in any way can only help in trying to understand it 

So although reading it can hurt for the likes of me, I do appreciate the waywards who will contribute to it.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Just chiming in to thank all former waywards who posted.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Bear with me as this is so emotive. I find this incomprehensible - this bit right there.
> 
> First I appreciate your honesty and I will try to stay focused on my temper here.
> 
> ...


First of all, I'd like to say that I'm sorry you are hurting. I know it must be difficult for you to understand my thought process and decisions. Thank you for not attacking or judging me. I appreciate your feedback and I have put a lot of thought into it. Just opening up to all of you on here has stirred up a lot in head. I cried when I read your reply this morning. Which tells me I have some unprocessed feelings that I need to deal with. What you said wouldn't sting if there wasn't some truth to it. 

I'm not comfortable with my actions. I just know beating myself up on a regular basis will lead to self destructive behavior for me. For some reason I have no middle ground. I do everything in extremes. Too much or not enough. I have to try to forgive myself. If it was something I took lightly or didn't bother me, I wouldn't be here talking about it..and I would have done it more than once. 

I know I'm damaged. However, that does not excuse my behavior. It does help me to understand it though. I've been in therapy for 10 years trying to fix myself. It hasn't been easy but I continue because I want to become a better person. I'm a work in progress. I forgave my husband for cheating because I didn't think I should let one bad decision destroy my marriage. Why should one bad choice overshadow all the good things? He's human. There's a part of me that just expected it. It's what I was use to. I can't take back what I did. As for what I was afraid of...I'm sure this will be hard for people to understand but I was afraid of myself. Afraid that if I left him, I'd revert back to old coping mechanisms, self destructive behaviors, and abusive relationships. Looking back, it still scares me that I chose the person I did to have an affair with. He was so wrong for me and it never would have worked. I need stability and he was the opposite. At the time, I convinced myself he was exactly what I needed and the fact that I was so delusional about it scares the crap out of me. Especially because my son was so young at the time. 
I love my husband. He's the best man I've ever known and without him, I truly believe I'd be dead. At this point in my life, I feel like I'm strong enough to leave and make it on my own but I don't want to live without him. I want him to work on his issues just as I have all these years. He won't though and it's frustrating. He's a mess and I know he's suffering. I feel like I owe it to him to stand by him but I just don't know when to say when. If he won't work on his issues and my needs are not being met, the healthy thing to do is leave, right? 

Thank you to all of you that have shared their stories here.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Thank you, Soulpotato. You explained it perfectly. I have never felt so totally understood by a complete stranger before.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> First of all, I'd like to say that I'm sorry you are hurting. I know it must be difficult for you to understand my thought process and decisions. Thank you for not attacking or judging me. I appreciate your feedback and I have put a lot of thought into it. Just opening up to all of you on here has stirred up a lot in head. I cried when I read your reply this morning. Which tells me I have some unprocessed feelings that I need to deal with. What you said wouldn't sting if there wasn't some truth to it.
> 
> I'm not comfortable with my actions. I just know beating myself up on a regular basis will lead to self destructive behavior for me. For some reason I have no middle ground. I do everything in extremes. Too much or not enough. I have to try to forgive myself. If it was something I took lightly or didn't bother me, I wouldn't be here talking about it..and I would have done it more than once.
> 
> ...


Have to say Fly - well done. I know this cannot be easy.

You are similar to my stbxw in many ways but with one crucial difference - you are HERE - you realize you need to look inside yourself and try to understand why you have acted like you have and I sense a willingness from you in hoping to somehow elevate yourself to a position where you can actually do something about it.

Without that force of good behind you, without the ability to accept what you have done - to inflict tremendous heaps of pain upon people - you are nothing and have no hope - none.

This step is the biggest and hardest - the understanding deep within to actually want to be a better person. To recognize that and know you have to do something about it.

It sounds like you have got on the first rung of the ladder which means you can be positive

My stbew would rather die than admit she needs to look at herself - really that's how far away she is from any self realization of the magnitude of her actions

As the saying goes - heal thyself 

Good luck with it :smthumbup:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> I can understand why you might think that but I take full responsibility for cheating on exboyfriends. I was a horrible girlfriend. I have even apologized to them a few years ago for it. if you read my response to Bob I tried to explain it. Also, I don't believe I've placed the blame all on my husband. He didn't make me cheat. That was a choice I made. I could have done a number of things to deal with my feelings but I took the selfish way out and cheated. I tried to fix things for 12 years. I was faithful for 12 years! I begged him to pay attention. Do you have any idea what that's like? He didn't until another man entered the picture.


As someone who has gone through some poor relationships (first girl friend left me for a millionaire property developer who was really an ex-con!, first long term relationship fiancée left me for a woman) I do know a little bit about where you are coming from.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> Thank you, Soulpotato. You explained it perfectly. I have never felt so totally understood by a complete stranger before.


That's great to hear, Flygirl.  I'm really glad.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> As someone who has gone through some poor relationships (first girl friend left me for a millionaire property developer who was really an ex-con!, first long term relationship fiancée left me for a woman) I do know a little bit about where you are coming from.


For a woman? Ouch! Did you even know she was into women?


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Have to say Fly - well done. I know this cannot be easy.
> 
> You are similar to my stbxw in many ways but with one crucial difference - you are HERE - you realize you need to look inside yourself and try to understand why you have acted like you have and I sense a willingness from you in hoping to somehow elevate yourself to a position where you can actually do something about it.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your support and encouragement, Headspin. You're very kind. My husband has forgiven me and I've earned his trust back. It took a few years. If you don't mind I have a few questions for you. Does your wife blame you? At any point , did you blame yourself? Do you think you could have forgiven her if she would have accepted responsibility for her actions? Sometimes I wonder if my husband still thinks about it. It's been almost 4 years. I'm afraid to ask because if he wasn't, he definitely will be then.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_Let me also say that abuse, especially by primary caregivers (or allowed by primary caregivers), MESSES A CHILD UP. People who haven't suffered abuse can't imagine how fvcked up your functioning can be after that. You can't take it for granted that an abused person is going to be able to function "normally". When you're born into a sick family system, you miss out on VITAL TRAINING that will prepare you for life, and most especially, for healthy relationships (not only do you miss out on the "official" training, but you get the twisted replacement instead). I cannot emphasize this enough. 

That being said, yes, people are responsible for getting into IC and fixing that. But it does affect practically everything.



I know people hate to hear this, but the roots of infidelity aren't always simple. You can still love someone and be willing to die for him/her and yet betray in this way because you don't see the whole picture, or really understand what you are doing to the person and will be doing to the person and the relationship. Also because you're still struggling to survive and running on old self-defense programs, which sometimes means you do very selfish and destructive things (yes, it ends up being highly counterproductive in adulthood sometimes). _


I appreciate these comments. Not to excuse cheating, but many BS should think about the above if their spouse was abused as a child, it is so accurate. My broken ex-wife was given up for adoption in Asia (born out or wedlock) at age 2, and adopted at 3.

Her adoptive mother is schizophrenic with borderline personality disorder and her non-biological older brothers sexually molested her. 

She cheated 6 years ago, was remorseful, then 2 years ago started hooking up with guys from A*hley M*dison. I discovered what she was doing and she promptly told me she was in love with a man from work 16 years her senior and she moved in with him.

After she left, she kept apologizing for hurting me and saying "I just need more time." Even now that we're divorced, she recently told me that. More time. 

Thanks again, very insightful. I hope my ex seeks IC, I've told her for years to try it. Her life is a shambles, $30,000 in debt, barely employed, has very little contact with our child. Maybe she hasn't hit the bottom yet...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> For a woman? Ouch! Did you even know she was into women?


No, I didn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks again, very insightful. I hope my ex seeks IC, I've told her for years to try it. Her life is a shambles, $30,000 in debt, barely employed, has very little contact with our child. Maybe she hasn't hit the bottom yet...[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure it has anything to do with hitting bottom. You have to feel safe and have a strong support system around you in order to begin working on trauma like this. Once you open up and start letting it out theres no way to put it back in. You dream about it, You relive it and some of it you are finally feeling for the first time. It's easy to go off the deep end if you don't have the right support. 

There's a lot of shame and self blame involved. You punish yourself by sabotaging anything or anyone good for you. you run to someone who treats you bad because it's where you feel most comfortable. And if your still in contact with your family, they will do eveything in their power to keep you from getting better. It's not easy and it's a slow process.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_I'm not so sure it has anything to do with hitting bottom. You have to feel safe and have a strong support system around you in order to begin working on trauma like this. Once you open up and start letting it out theres no way to put it back in. You dream about it, You relive it and some of it you are finally feeling for the first time. It's easy to go off the deep end if you don't have the right support. 

There's a lot of shame and self blame involved. You punish yourself by sabotaging anything or anyone good for you. you run to someone who treats you bad because it's where you feel most comfortable. And if your still in contact with your family, they will do eveything in their power to keep you from getting better. It's not easy and it's a slow process._

Interesting. I accept what you're saying since you're living it. My thinking was, what will, if anything, motivate her to seek help? 

Her only support (I guess) is her AP, she cut both her and my family off many years ago, she left her religious faith around the same time, and now it's me and her daughter who've been jettisoned. 

It concerns me mostly because I wish she could be a better mother. The affair, drinking, shopping, hours on the computer... all distractions. She has to want to get some help, evidently isn't ready.


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## TCL (Apr 12, 2013)

ip2013 said:


> Have you ever cheated on a partner/spouse? (It doesn’t matter if it was in the distant past or recent history.) I would love your input regarding these questions. No judgment, just some basic research.


Thank you to all those who have had the courage to post already, I have already found some healing from your words.
While I'm not sure its a good idea that my first post on TAM be this.. but neither was my EA turned PA so here goes....

1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?

I didn't suddenly make a conscious decision to cheat. It was more a series of bad choices that led to the big bad choice. I actually thought I was "safe" from an affair with my EA, and didn't realize it had turned into an EA until I was in pretty deep. Sounds like a cop out I know, but Its the truth. 

Like many others here, I selfishly wanted (and thought I needed) to be 'loved'. My husband of 11 years was very absent and involved in so many activities outside of the home that if we saw him for a combined 5 hours in a week, we considered it a good week. I felt like a single mom to the 4 kids (with epilepsy, celiac disease, ADHD, Anaphylactic allergies etc) and voiced this many times. Repeatedly asked him to give us more of his time, and bear some of the responsibility. I tried to end the marriage many times, each time he begged and promised to change and I fell for it. When I stopped falling for it, he got the church involved to make me stay, and of course out of guilt, I would. 

During those 11 years, the stress drove me into 3 major depressions, one psychotic episode and one mini stroke. All this to simply say that by the time my EA started I was very broken and just wanted to feel cared about. My OM did that. I read someone else say "he brought color back to my world" and that is the perfect description for me as well. Around him I felt alive again, like he was the only person who saw the real me and for a moment, life seamed manageable. It was never about sex, it was about attention. I know now that it was pretty textbook and I was guided by my emotions and selfish desires. I was a coward. period. 

**I tried to end my marriage right before the affair. My husband called the Pastor over for an emergency intervention and before I could catch my breath I had a carousel of people praying for me, over me, with me.. praying through my house to rid it of evil and even some trying to pray the evil out of me. "We won't let Satan have this marriage" - What they didn't see was that Satan already had it. I was already in my personal hell. Since I knew that adultery was the only acceptable reason for divorce I think I may have subconsciously taken the EA to a PA on purpose.. working that out in counseling right now. 


2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)

Like Scum. The guilt of what I did destroyed me. It shattered what was left of my heart. Knowing that I hurt so many people, my children included, and lost the trust of everyone around me is indescribable pain. I lost what few friends I had left and had the church turn it's back on me completely. The Shame is almost unbearable. Ironically, despite this shame and guilt, I have not experienced any of the severe depression or psychosis I had during my marriage, so that's a good thing. I've even been off my meds for over a year and been given the clear by doctors who are now saying the my previous diagnosis of BPD was incorrect, that it was situational depression. (an 11 year situation). My anxiety has disappeared and I function quite normally now.. except for the giant scarlet letter burned into my chest. (in hindsight not surprising since none of it existed prior to my marriage)

3. Do you consider yourself to be a religious or spiritual person?
I did yes. 

4. If so, did your infidelity affect your religiosity or spirituality?

Yes. I questioned the very existence of God. I actually started questioning this prior to my EA, so that could be what led to me letting my guard down? I couldn't (and still don't) understand why God would leave me in such a dark place in an empty marriage. I kept thinking, If he is so powerful why can't he get through to my husband? Why can't he make someone in the church see my desperate silent cries for help? 

5. Is there anything you wish your partner could understand about your infidelity?

That I never wanted to hurt him. I just want him to understand what drove me to such a desperate place. 

That while I was angry at him for hurting me and using scriptures to guilt and control; my affair was not retaliation, it was desperation. 

That I would give anything to go back in time and stop the affair.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Interesting. I accept what you're saying since you're living it. My thinking was, what will, if anything, motivate her to seek help? 

Her only support (I guess) is her AP, she cut both her and my family off many years ago, she left her religious faith around the same time, and now it's me and her daughter who've been jettisoned. 

It concerns me mostly because I wish she could be a better mother. The affair, drinking, shopping, hours on the computer... all distractions. She has to want to get some help, evidently isn't ready.[/QUOTE]

I've been thinking about what you said about having a breaking point. I was wrong, I did have one. It wasn't anything huge. I just felt like it would be harder to live one more day feeling the way I was feeling than it would be to ask for help. I called a number on back of my insurance card and said "please help me"...lol I'm such a dork. It was the billing dept but they eventually found me a doctor. 

As bad as I was, I would never leave my child...Has she ever made any attempts at getting help? How is your child dealing with it? Sounds like your daughter got lucky in the dad department.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I'm not so sure it has anything to do with hitting bottom. You have to feel safe and have a strong support system around you in order to begin working on trauma like this. Once you open up and start letting it out theres no way to put it back in. You dream about it, You relive it and some of it you are finally feeling for the first time. It's easy to go off the deep end if you don't have the right support.
> 
> There's a lot of shame and self blame involved. You punish yourself by sabotaging anything or anyone good for you. you run to someone who treats you bad because it's where you feel most comfortable. And if your still in contact with your family, they will do eveything in their power to keep you from getting better. It's not easy and it's a slow process.


I relate so much to this. 

Sometimes it seems to be a combination of being in a safe place and hitting rock bottom that gets people to IC (it was for me). I thought being in a safe place and trying to work on things by myself was enough, but it took almost completely losing my GF to really break through to me and make me realize that my previous efforts were totally inadequate to the task.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

ip2013 said:


> Have you ever cheated on a partner/spouse? (It doesn’t matter if it was in the distant past or recent history.) I would love your input regarding these questions. No judgment, just some basic research.
> 
> 1. In your opinion, what were some contributing factors in your decision to cheat?
> 2. How did cheating make you feel? (This may vary, as how it made you feel immediately might be different than how it made you feel later.)
> ...


1. I was weak and bored. Marriage was failing and I was strongly considering divorce already. Met someone in a similar situation and we had good chemistry. I had always tried to avoid an affair, but she had had a few in her marriage and we fell into it. Things happened very slowly and with a LOT of guilt and remorse along the way.

2. Made me feel like sh*t. Still does.

3. Somewhat religious. Not too much.

4. Made me more religious. Still looking for redemption.

5. She doesn't know and I hope never finds out. If she did, I would take full blame. She didn't deserve it.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

I've never cheated on my husband, been together for a very long time but he has me many times. Between this, things that were said, finding nude pictures of the last one, I have been thinking about it.

I never get much out of him, not talking about sex, things like I love you or I'm sorry for hurting you. He's not shy, he can say anything to me as long as its not that.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> I relate so much to this.
> 
> Sometimes it seems to be a combination of being in a safe place and hitting rock bottom that gets people to IC (it was for me). I thought being in a safe place and trying to work on things by myself was enough, but it took almost completely losing my GF to really break through to me and make me realize that my previous efforts were totally inadequate to the task.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad you figured it out before it was too late. Sounds like you got a good one! Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get things right. I over think and second guess everything. I do everything to extremes. Too much or not enough.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> Glad you figured it out before it was too late. Sounds like you got a good one! Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get things right. I over think and second guess everything. I do everything to extremes. Too much or not enough.


Oh, we're not out of the woods yet! She walked away, but then she kind of...stopped and partially turned to see if I was serious about changing and addressing all of these things. She's still feeling cautious, but she is giving me the chance to prove myself. Which is really just incredible. She's a very good one.  

 You can do it! You're self-aware, and working on you, putting in the effort. It sounds like your heart is also in the right place. 

I do the same things. It's very frustrating and makes me just want to pummel myself. I know what it's like to feel the despair and hopelessness, and to feel that you can never get anything right. I often feel that as a human being, I'm a failed project and should just be scrapped. The feeling that you can't get anything right sabotages, because you know how it is when you're trying to do something and thinking the whole time that you can't do it? Sure enough, you get yourself believing that you can't, so you fail because you believe you'll fail, and then it just becomes this vicious, cyclical, self-fulfilling prophecy.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

As bad as I was, I would never leave my child...Has she ever made any attempts at getting help? How is your child dealing with it? Sounds like your daughter got lucky in the dad department. 



Glad you got help, Flygirl. They say we only change when the pain of staying where we are exceeds the pain of changing. I think there's a lot of truth to that. 

My ex had a breakdown 6 years ago and spent a week in an institution. They strongly recommended continued therapy, but she didn't follow through. 

Our daughter is 12 and is doing much better than I expected she would. The three of us seemed to have a wonderful life and I honestly had no idea that my ex was so discontented. Sex several times a week, date nights regularly, good communication...

I'm still in quite a bit of pain. I dig deep and do my absolute best for my daughter. Like you say, how can anyone leave their child unless there is something seriously abusive going on? She just doesn't want it, me, family, whatever. 

Thank you for you kind words


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Thank you for your support and encouragement, Headspin. You're very kind. My husband has forgiven me and I've earned his trust back. It took a few years. If you don't mind I have a few questions for you. 



Flygirl said:


> Does your wife blame you?


Oh absolutely. Publicly anyway.

Knowing her (and her knowing herself) yes she knows it is absolutely her fault - basically her problem is she cannot ignore the attention of other men. More accurately she always chooses to take it further when the choice is that you've flirted enough, you've got and enjoyed the attention and now it's 'the crossroads point' as I call it. It's the point of no return and almost every single time she goes falling in again and again.(they are all married with kids)

She's had a very good life with me, admits that says she knows she should be content and has had everything a woman could want, never had to work full time, given every support to seek out and achieve her dreams. Our sex life was great, not perfect but that will never be so - it was generally great when she had her head away from other men. She admits to me that any of her criticisms of me do not warrant her seeking the attentions of other men

However publicly she admits none of that. Comes up with reasons for her infidelities that are nothing short of mind numbingly ridiculous - "you made me get a part time job 15 tears ago" !! (I **** you not) You've "not secured our families future ten 15 years down the line" and on and on ....

Even under the pressure of seperation divorce and my utter revulsion of her she still will not come clean about it all. Still blames me. Until she shows some unconditional remorse I will always feel this way about her till my last breath.



Flygirl said:


> At any point , did you blame yourself?


Good question and of course I do but not as I at first thought. Look I'm not stupid - it takes two to tango.
However I got to the point where I started believing her many critiscms of me - that I did nothing, that she did all the work she earned all the money. However once she was gone and i was in my own free space and able to think with clarity I quiclky realized just what a complete fool I'd been.

She walked into the easy life, luxury home, part time work which was often taken on to fullfill her mental needs her issues. To get her to ease up on the anorexia bulima self harming. We tried to make it that she did not have any pressure or she'd collapse. She as is her problem started to sleep more and more basically opting out of our lives after the kids for 2 / 3 days a week. I became a fulltime house husband and worked part time often earning more than her. It often got to the point where I'd just think I cant be arsed asking yet again for you to get your arse down from the bedroom and so just got on with the job - you dont have time to fk about when kids, have to go to school, have to be fed, cleaned, bed time stories, school clubs, and your own work too - all whilst your dealing with what amounts to be this third needy child - your wife ! 
And then you have this person telling you you're not doing enough and she's doing a lot !!
Then the men started time and again 

Looking back now it was ridiculous - just insane. I'll never know how I've kept a straight head living that life with her - ever. 

My fault ? I'm far from perfect but for this woman I was as near as she'll ever get it - for her and her problems and her madness.

Once I looked at everything and realized just what I'd given her and what she had not given me I quickly realized my one real fault

My need to 'save' her - to save the 'victim' . That's what she laid down at my feet and that's what I could never resist. Its like a drug trying to save someone - an addict of some sorts. I often think back and it feels like she was maybe like a pet 'project' of mine! My fault was going there once again - I did not learn . I had two woman like this in varying degrees before and had learned nothing about myself let alone them naively thinking love conquers 



Flygirl said:


> Do you think you could have forgiven her if she would have accepted responsibility for her actions?


I did the first time and she did seem to show remorse but within two months she was seeing om ( a work colleague) again. And my heart sank. He was always on the periphery and she never had any intention of giving him up he as she often said is her "mentor" So the remorse was short lived. Her boundaries were nil

You'd ask of course "so why do you stay with a serial cheat"? and its easy - because for 9/10 months it was so fantastically good you always took the bad times as being the price you pay. Biggest problems were when the cycles started to shorten the good times became 4 months and 8 months of shvte then three great months and three months of utter despair and pain as you became detective trying to unfold the latest infidelity 

_


Flygirl said:



Sometimes I wonder if my husband still thinks about it. It's been almost 4 years. I'm afraid to ask because if he wasn't, he definitely will be then.

Click to expand...

_He will absolutely but seems he's making a good fist of it so you have to go with it. It never left my thoughts when I was in r but I suspect your husband has better reason to be relaxed about it all than I did


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> I appreciate these comments. Not to excuse cheating, but many BS should think about the above if their spouse was abused as a child, it is so accurate. My broken ex-wife was given up for adoption in Asia (born out or wedlock) at age 2, and adopted at 3.


I think a lot of the waywards on this thread would agree that there is no excuse for cheating/affairs, as do I. I think a lot of people would be surprised if they realized how deeply and pervasively abuse affects people and any relationships they might attempt to have. I am just now learning what love really is and how to really SHOW love and have a full, healthy relationship, and I'm well into adulthood.



maincourse99 said:


> Her adoptive mother is schizophrenic with borderline personality disorder and her non-biological older brothers sexually molested her.


 Your ex has a tough road ahead of her, and a tough climb to even get to the road.



maincourse99 said:


> Thanks again, very insightful. I hope my ex seeks IC, I've told her for years to try it. Her life is a shambles, $30,000 in debt, barely employed, has very little contact with our child. Maybe she hasn't hit the bottom yet...


Thank you, and I'm sorry for what you went through with your ex, and for her current situation. You're a good person to still care for her and hope for the best for her, despite her betrayal and the pain she caused you. I hope that she decides to fight for her life, too. 

You know...I don't know if this helps, but sometimes we run away from the good people, the ones who are best for us. As Flygirl said, you run to what you know, and for people brought up in abusive/sick family systems, well... I don't know about her, but good, kind people scared me. Especially if I started caring about them. I was afraid; afraid of tainting them, of hurting them and dragging them down. I knew I wasn't worthy of that goodness, that kindness. I believed that I was bad and worthless (still working on that). So I was drawn to people who would treat me that way, because it fit with what I knew and it was comfortable. Maybe that's why your ex has never been ready and always "needed more time".

Sometime after I started therapy, I realized that I was recreating the dynamic I knew in childhood. I kept trying to "solve" those early conflicts by seeking validation, acceptance, and affection from the people who fit into that twisted pattern, to no avail (of course, because it was impossible). Until I saw that, I couldn't understand it and therefore start learning to avoid it.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Headspin said:


> She walked into the easy life, luxury home, part time work which was often taken on to fullfill her mental needs her issues. To get her to ease up on the anorexia bulima self harming. We tried to make it that she did not have any pressure or she'd collapse. She as is her problem started to sleep more and more basically opting out of our lives after the kids for 2 / 3 days a week. I became a fulltime house husband and worked part time often earning more than her. It often got to the point where I'd just think I cant be arsed asking yet again for you to get your arse down from the bedroom and so just got on with the job - you dont have time to fk about when kids, have to go to school, have to be fed, cleaned, bed time stories, school clubs, and your own work too - all whilst your dealing with what amounts to be this third needy child - your wife !
> And then you have this person telling you you're not doing enough and she's doing a lot !!
> Then the men started time and again


No matter what you did, you would never have been able to solve her problems.  In situations like that, only therapy can really dig down to address the core problems causing the behaviors that you can see and interact with. Sure, you can provide much-needed support through that process, but the healing and repair-work must be done primarily via therapy.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I noticed when people cheat it's usually with other married people. My OM was single, no kids and lived in a different state. I wonder if there is a reason we chose who we did.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Headspin, when I asked if you ever blamed yourself I hope you don't think I was suggesting you were at fault. I was trying to see the range of emotions the betrayed one goes through. Your wife's reasons are pretty far out there, aren't they? If it wasn't so sad, her excuses would be funny. i mean how dare you not plan 15 years into the future. As a mother, I have such a hard time wrapping my head around women who leave or stop taking care of their children. I have always done 100% of the childcare and discipline. I feel guilty if I have to ask my husband to pick up our son from school becauseI feel like it's my responsibility. On the rare occasion I do ask him, he sends an employee to pick him up! 
I totally get what your reasons for staying so long. When it's good, it's really good but when it's bad, it's really bad. My husband is like you in the sense that he likes to save people and fix problems. 
If I ever get divorced, i don't think I want to get married again.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> Headspin, when I asked if you ever blamed yourself I hope you don't think I was suggesting you were at fault. I was trying to see the range of emotions the betrayed one goes through. Your wife's reasons are pretty far out there, aren't they? If it wasn't so sad, her excuses would be funny. i mean how dare you not plan 15 years into the future. As a mother, I have such a hard time wrapping my head around women who leave or stop taking care of their children. I have always done 100% of the childcare and discipline. I feel guilty if I have to ask my husband to pick up our son from school becauseI feel like it's my responsibility. On the rare occasion I do ask him, he sends an employee to pick him up!
> I totally get what your reasons for staying so long. When it's good, it's really good but when it's bad, it's really bad. My husband is like you in the sense that he likes to save people and fix problems.
> If I ever get divorced, i don't think I want to get married again.


That's fine. As I said none of us are perfect and there are things I would have done differently. You would always change something to satisfy your partner if it does not get to much of a big deal for you to do it. We all do this.

But as potato says I realise now there is nothing I could have done different or better - she was always going to treat me or whoever would have been me, like she has.

Trouble is it's exasperating to know that for my children, who stay with her for three days a week there is always another calamity waiting to happen around the corner. Until she seeks to, if not correct herself, at least to modify her behavior she will always end up doing what she does. And that need to improve has to come from within. She has not, when it comes to the crunch accepted full responsibility, for it.

I doubt think she understands about moving on in a 'clean' way either. For me the public side of admitting you are wrong is a huge deal. 

Look at you and others in this thread. This is a public place this forum, okay you don't know me or others personally but it still public, you still care what WE think of you and you are here opening up taking some responsibility and it's bloody obvious that that will for you be of benefit to future behavior concerning boundaries and entitlement in respect of looking at other partners outside of your marriage 

If like my stbxw you do not attempt this you remain basically _stuck_, in a loop going around and around doing the same things because you will not address your flaws, sadly the ones which rip other peoples lives to shreds.

Here's the real problem with this 'post fidelity' mentality - if you do not look at yourself and want to re assess yourself then that unfortunately takes you into the area where you are choosing to be this black evil hearted bastard who does not give a **** about anybody else but yourself.

That is where my stbxw is and now somehow to her surprise she cannot see how there will never be anything other then repulsion and nil respect from me concerning any thing with me.

It's deeply annoying in that it also stops the betrayed from fully moving on too as I would rather invest my energy in having an amicable relationship with her rather than the bitter hateful one I always carry with me

I also will never marry again

Other than that I'm as happy as Larry !:lol:


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't know if I should have started a new thread for this but can anyone tell me what a normal healthy marriage is like? Is it normal to fall in and out of love for each other through out the marriage? Is it normal to go times where you just don't like each other very much? Does attraction fade in and out?


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## PastOM (Apr 12, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I don't know if I should have started a new thread for this but can anyone tell me what a normal healthy marriage is like? Is it normal to fall in and out of love for each other through out the marriage? Is it normal to go times where you just don't like each other very much? Does attraction fade in and out?


For me, marriage should be an ongoing show of respect for each other. After some years the love high subsides and then you settle into a rhythm. That includes sex, communication, joint and separate activities (and with kids if any).

I think the real problem that marriages today face is the loss of respect for your spouse. Once the respect subsides, then everything else becomes a point of resentment. During my marriage, we loved each other - the entire marriage. Somewhere along the way we lost respect, and that was the beginning of the end.

No, you don't have to like each other all the time. No you don't have to find each other thrilling, or even attractive at times. If you have respect, those undulations are meaningless, and the attraction returns, and fades and returns, as do the other relationship attributes.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Flygirl said:


> I don't know if I should have started a new thread for this but can anyone tell me what a normal healthy marriage is like? Is it normal to fall in and out of love for each other through out the marriage? Is it normal to go times where you just don't like each other very much? Does attraction fade in and out?


Maybe you should but briefly yes those things are normal maybe falling in and out if love is a bit strong I'd say but over a long time 'life', as say gets in the way. 

Think about pre kids life 
Hilarious this as most of us can't ever remember what we did with all that time together without having to run around after children !!

I know we lazed around a lot getting pissed up having great sex 

BUT along come kids and the whole dynamic changes - it has to - they are priority. The things that never annoyed you about your wife are noticeable because she would always attend to you and your needs. Now that's suddenly different - you are down the list. Sex is suddenly not just fall into each other arms and entwine it's now snatched opportunities inbetween cleaning up the baby poo, the sick, new prams new cots. Time, from being this endless space is now at a premium and fitting each other into that is suddenly something you have to cater for.

Under all these things people can get shvtty can lose sight of each others needs. It is a time of readjustment and should love be secure and strong you come through it together as a better and stronger couple.Conversly you can also come through it seeing a slightly different side to the person you first met . Now under pressure they are short of patience not exactly sensitive to some things. You realize maybe you although madly love them you maybe do not like everything about them. However in those circumstances the good bits tend to outweigh the bad 

Attraction can fade - because you maybe don't have the time not do any exercise put on weight and you may look at her and think 'my God would I have fancied you way back if you had that 2 stone in weight you now carry around with you !?!' But then you can make the effort to lose a few pound and be as attractive as you know she likes that so....... If you stop making any effort to be attractive then you're asking for trouble imo

Of course by now 5/10 years later you may well hopefully have found a different kind of all encompassing 'love' with this person that goes far deeper than great sex 

It's the swings and roundabouts of marriage and of course when its working, when you are both singing from the same hymn sheet it's about the most wonderful thing there is

Trouble is when one of you suddenly throws the hymn book into the bin and wants to start singing with somebody else 
- we all know what that means !!


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

PastOM said:


> For me, marriage should be an ongoing show of respect for each other. After some years the love high subsides and then you settle into a rhythm. That includes sex, communication, joint and separate activities (and with kids if any).
> 
> I think the real problem that marriages today face is the loss of respect for your spouse. Once the respect subsides, then everything else becomes a point of resentment. During my marriage, we loved each other - the entire marriage. Somewhere along the way we lost respect, and that was the beginning of the end.
> 
> No, you don't have to like each other all the time. No you don't have to find each other thrilling, or even attractive at times. If you have respect, those undulations are meaningless, and the attraction returns, and fades and returns, as do the other relationship attributes.


Agreed on the respect - it's such a huge deal.

For me it's also a huge a deal when ending a marriage as it is at any other time.

My stbew and I had a conversation I remember word for word in the first days she moved in with me 16 years ago.

I said "Babe one thing I'll ask and demand of you is this" "Should you (or I) at any point fully fall out of love and feel the need to move on then we have to end it even though that will hurt. We have to end it immediately and under no circumstances cheat on the other because for me I'll never have an ounce of respect should you do that to me and I know I would never do that to you" 

She said "of course it's unthinkable to put each other through any more pain than necessary"

Had she, when she did feel that, finished us I'd have suffered and been in huge pain. But nothing to the pain when she felt like that and embarked upon 8 years of serial fking around living the lie of being happy and content with me but always wanting to be away and having less and less respect for me as time went on - just grinding the very life out of me time and time again.

It's the reason I will never have an ounce of respect for her as long as I live. 

But inside a marriage yes it's a crucial factor


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> I noticed when people cheat it's usually with other married people. My OM was single, no kids and lived in a different state. I wonder if there is a reason we chose who we did.


There are all sorts of reasons. They vary depending upon the person. My EAs were with people who were even more broken and emotionally unavailable than I was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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