# Tummy Ache



## argyle (May 27, 2011)

Anyone have any experience with persistent tummy ache's in 5 year olds?

1. About 3 months now. Whole stomach hurts, all the time. 
2. Child seems somewhat constipated (45 min poo a few times), but have been offering (and sometimes eating) oatmeal. Fiber consumption is variable and lower than I'd like. 
3. Wife is BPD, so could also be stress.
4. Doctor suggests either constipation or 'sometimes, they just start noticing that they have a stomach.'.
5. Child seems perfectly healthy, happy, and extremely active.
6. Complaints are most common prior to mealtime and whenever we tell child it is bedtime.
7. Tummy rubs may or may not work.

--Argyle


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

hows his diet? I would assume its the constipation, is he by chance holding it in because it hurts to go? 

Not sure I understand #3 is your wife out of control and your son sees it? then yes it could be that she makes him nervous. Is she getting treatment?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

argyle said:


> Anyone have any experience with persistent tummy ache's in 5 year olds?
> 
> 1. About 3 months now. Whole stomach hurts, all the time.
> 
> ...


If it's all the time - go to a specialist. This can be symptomatic of other issues. Maintain a diary of foods consumed, bowel movements, etc if possible.

If it's situational -mealtimes/bedtimes, it's either stress or manipulative. Is mealtime or bedtime stressful?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My daughter, now 19, had 'tummy aches' from the time she started school. We were at the dr. probably a dozen times over the years about them. He did test after test and prescribed one thing after another. They finally stopped when I took her out of school to homeschool in grade nine. It was totally stress related. She also stopped biting her nails. She's since been diagnosed with anxiety issues. I wish I'd explored that option years earlier - poor kid!

Tummy ache is sometimes code for being nervous about something.

If you've exhausted medical reasons, perhaps explore stress reduction methods. But explore the medical possibilities first.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Look into celiac disease and mention it to your Doctor. It's a childhood disease that causes digestive problems in the small intestine (if you haven't already heard about it). 

Celiac Disease - Causes, Symptoms, Treatment, Diagnosis - Condition Factsheets - Body & Health

"Bowel movements are often bulky, light tan or grey, and frothy or rancid-smelling because the stools contain fat that couldn't be absorbed. The feces often stick to the toilet bowl because of the large amount of fat in them."

Is your daughter often bloated?

If it's not that. Then it could just be that she is stressed and holding in her BM's.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Same thing with my son, saw his doctor and a specialist he's holding his BMs because they hurt, and yes if he is stressed. I would talk to the doctor, it could be anything and three months is a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

one thing you may try is removing dairy and see if that helps - i have been allergic to milk since childhood and had frequent stomach aches and naturally started avoiding milk on my own - tested positive for the allergy as an adult but mostly lactose intolerant so I am fine with lactose free milk and yogurt


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

@mablenc
Doesn't seem to be...doesn't avoid the toilet...just seems to go once a day. Sometimes takes an awfully long time though - 3+ 5-10 minute poos in succession. Problem is, I've been trying oatmeal for a few weeks - and it isn't clear that it is making much difference. He says it isn't, my mother says it seems to. 
Wife's in treatment - actually improved a lot - but he's seen a lot of meltdowns - ranging from yelling to running out of the house to collapsing and thrashing on the floor. Her empathy levels are pretty low, so there are communication issues between them as well.
Been to the doctors about this twice so far - they're thinking constipation - HMO - so I'm not sure how I'd go about looking for a specialist.

@TCS
Hard to tell - he says it is all the time, but it really doesn't seem to bother him until I tell him to go to bed.

It is 80% bedtimes. Bedtime itself doesn't seem stressful - cuddles and stories and he goes to sleep pretty well. (We're a bit lax...so that involves daddy reading and lying next to him until he sleeps.) But, he never wants to go to bed. On one hand, I hate to doubt him, but on the other, he also mysteriously becomes hungry right before bedtime and needs to stay up eating. After that, or sometimes without a snack, he'll then start asking how to make his stomach start hurting. 

This week, he has also been stressing around mealtimes, but he just had a nasty stomach bug (first one...), so, he's quite keen on making sure that mommy doesn't feed him anything that will upset his stomach. (Cookies have sugar. They'll make me puke. Again. Make sure mommy doesn't feed me any.)

@Hope
Could be stress - but his complaints seem uncorrelated to recent stressors. They could be code for wanting to talk about something - as we usually have little chats while he gets ready to sleep. That and, he's a happy little guy - although he worries about his mom being mentally ill. He used to ask about that a fair bit, more recently he's been worried about daddy dying when he gets old. When he's stressed or scolded, he tends to slap himself in the head.

@some
The BMs look pretty normal, although they tend towards orange - might be related to a diet with a lot of fish/fish oil in it.

My wife thinks they both have pinworm. But, they've both been dewormed.

One thing...he doesn't sleep a lot. It is a real battle getting him to sleep before 10 PM. And he'll wake me up in the mornings at 6ish. 

Dunno. I'm guessing that he has real tummy pain sometimes and also has figured out that tummy pain gets him an extra 5-10 wakeful minutes. He is somewhat manipulative.

@swedish - Did you have gassy pain? Most of his relatives are lactose intolerant, but the pain is gassy and there are loose stools.


I'll try the mealtime diary for a while.

--Argyle


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## bellawhite (Jan 22, 2013)

Prior to meal or bedtime? Lol sounds like my kid! Haha today at dinner he said he was still full from lunch, after i said he wasnt he asked how did i know im not his stomach? Lol and at bedtime he always asks to poo after he is in bed! (So he doesnt have to go to sleep!? Or gets to stay up a little longer to go to the bathroom) is he a lazy eater? Or just doesnt want to go to bed! Kind of sounds like excuses!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

It seems to me that he is having anxiety problems, my son slaps himself on the head when frustrated but he has autism. He does it when he can't communicate his frustrations.

One big red flag I see is this "*This week, he has also been stressing around mealtimes, but he just had a nasty stomach bug (first one...), so, he's quite keen on making sure that mommy doesn't feed him anything that will upset his stomach. (Cookies have sugar. They'll make me puke. Again. Make sure mommy doesn't feed me any.)"*

Made me feel sick to my stomach actually, could it be possible that your wife has given him something to make him sick ? Am I reading too much into this? Have you heard of Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy? It's just that he maybe trying to tell you something here.

Another red flag is that he has seen his mom at her worst moments and seems to feel scared of you dying. My mother has suffered from mental illness all her life and refuses treatment. I grew up worried to death about her, I suffer awful panic attacks. Please see counseling for your son, it's a lot to deal with for such a young child. Based on what you posted I'm thinking he has anxiety?


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

@bella
Could be. I'm suspicious - because he's pretty good at finding distractions to avoid bedtime. A wonderful boy, but tricky.

@mablenc
Mom is pretty unlikely to deliberately feed him something that'll make him sick. (I'd divorce that sort. She's more the sort who's kind of obsessed about proper nutrition with children and really susceptible to fads.) OTOH, she is not too good at being consistent or noticing that someone is sick. So, she'll notice that he's sick and cuddle him to sleep. And feed him bread. And then worry about him not eating enough when he perks up and feed him cookies and milk. Worst case, she'll cook something that results in food poisoning - but that's more of an issue for me. Our child is quite picky about the food he eats - and that's probably wise. One issue is that mom is somewhat obsessed with autism and tends to dose him with fish oil, which can cause digestive problems - but - unless he's eating a lot more of the stuff than I think - that's probably not the issue - although - his poop is coming out orange.

I'm pretty convinced that he was trying to tell me that mom doesn't listen and doesn't know the right sort of food to feed a child with a stomach bug. 

His mom was thinking anxiety (until the 45 min poo incidents), but, aside from the stomachaches, I haven't seen him acting anxious. And, he doesn't complain about stomachaches in anxiety-producing situations. I should keep a diary, but for the last 2 days - there was-
(1) 2 complaints, each happened when I told him it was time for sleep.
(2) 2 complaints, each happened when I told him it was time to finish breakfast, stop watching TV, and go to school.
They mostly seem to come up when he's happy and told to stop XYZ to do something else.

Thing I worry about is...I deal with the complaints by offering him a hug, talking a bit, and possibly a little tummy rub - but I might be reinforcing manipulative behavior - or helping him deal with anxiety. I don't want to make a big deal of his complaints either - as that can reinforce manipulation.

I worry about the head-slapping - I suspect he picked it up from his mom - she tends to slap herself as a coping mechanism - woman has some autistic tendencies.

In general, I favor involving a therapist - as having a crazy mom is a lot to deal with. The red flag I notice - he's scared of dying (personally) - and he's scared of me dying. The personal fear of death is probably dominant...after I told him that immortality would result in overpopulation...his request involved wiping out every city except the one we live in. But, he's never mentioned a single worry about his mother's death.

In specific, I guess I don't have enough information to really decide. Or, the complaints could be, and probably are, a mix of anxiety, bedtime avoidance, and constipation. My current guess is centered around the latter two - as the really consistent complaints decreased after I added oatmeal to his diet. 

--Argyle


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Argyle, please also take care of yourself too, it seems you have your hands full. I hope that you will find some peace in your home soon, and please know that you sound like a great father. Your son is very lucky to have you.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I would keep a diary for a month or so, then seek out medical help to rule out a medical cause. 

If he checks out medically, it's probably time to consult a therapist if it continues. 

You've struck on something when you say that it happens when he's being transitioned. I don't want to diagnose but he's not responding well to change for some reason. His mom has autistic tendencies so I'm drawing a dotted line there.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

@TCS
Diary is a good thing. But, the problem is that his pediatrician is completely unworried - so - unless there's a change - they're unlikely to take action. And, this is reasonable, as the tummy pain doesn't seem to affect anything. But, it bugs me. Up until this, everything he's complained about has been real.* (Including the ear infections...which the doctors were pretty skeptical about.)

OTOH, now that I think of it, I have had persistent diffuse stomach pain for my entire life. I basically just ignore it. Um. Yeah. It stops for a second or two after a stomach rub. Not sure it counts as pain if it never stops.

Autism? Possible - possibly even likely, all things considered. So, your guess would be that he feels anxious around transitions and that makes his stomach hurt? I thought autistics had trouble with life transitions - not daily routine transitions. Although, that would explain my wife's tendency to melt down when trying to get out of the house to go to the grocery store.
Dunno...he's pretty verbal and social and does a lot of imaginative play. Empathy at a young age was definitely ok - might be a bit behind now.


--Argyle
*Well, except for the time I watched him carefully miss headbutting a table corner and lower himself to the ground before crying. We were in an ice cream shop at the time.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

There's a range of autistic triggers/reactions. My friend's son melted down when the birthday card he received didn't complete the song. I'm not saying it IS autism or on the spectrum but the fact that the stomach issues coincide with these events indicate anxiety about the transitions. 

It doesn't matter if your pediatrician isn't alarmed. You can request a referral to a specialist. I've had to insist on referrals at different occasions because I want an answer.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> There's a range of autistic triggers/reactions. My friend's son melted down when the birthday card he received didn't complete the song. I'm not saying it IS autism or on the spectrum but the fact that the stomach issues coincide with these events indicate anxiety about the transitions.
> 
> It doesn't matter if your pediatrician isn't alarmed. You can request a referral to a specialist. I've had to insist on referrals at different occasions because I want an answer.


Spot on, :iagree:

If his dr is not listening to your conserns take him else where. You are the parent and know something is going on.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

argyle said:


> Anyone have any experience with persistent tummy ache's in 5 year olds?
> 
> 1. About 3 months now. Whole stomach hurts, all the time.
> 2. Child seems somewhat constipated (45 min poo a few times), but have been offering (and sometimes eating) oatmeal. Fiber consumption is variable and lower than I'd like.
> ...


Is he taking any medications?

Otherwise, it sounds like it might be anxiety.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

It is not normal for a five year old to sleep 8 hours a night. It should be ten or so. 
If his dr doesn't take it seriously, I would have a mental health pro involved. 
Also 5 year olds tend to hold their BMs because they suddenly realize that they can. 
It sounds like he's constipated. My d did this at age 5. I had to give her Mirilax for a while because it gets things moving and then they can't hold it.
I would definitely get him counseling and take care of you too.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...I'd worry more - but the short sleeping started the first day out of the hospital. It seems less psychological and more innate. One of my college friends averaged about 6 hours, and his father averaged 4, so I figure there's some natural variation. Fairly tiring for the parents though. The best solution we've arrived at is putting him to bed at 9, sleeping at 10, us sleeping before 11, and then letting him play quietly until we wake up.

...I'm thinking a mixture of constipation and bedtime evasion. It seems to be sorting itself out. He dodged oatmeal for a few days, suddenly became unable to poop, cried a lot, and suddenly started insisting on oatmeal every morning. 

Since then, the only mentions of stomach ache occur when I mention that we're about to put him to bed. And those are in the 'daddy, stop a second. we need to talk about my stomach ache before I go to bed.'

--Argyle


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Does he have any dental problems? Any itchy skin issues?

I second Somethingelse's idea. I'm gluten intolerant and my son (3) started complaining about random tummy pain. He's now gluten free and hasn't complained anymore. And given that oats can be a trigger for celiacs/the gluten intolerant, bumping up the oatmeal to try and lessen the constipation might be a cycling the problem. 

Also 45 minute poos aren't really going to work when he starts school - so, I'd say now is the time to address this.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> Does he have any dental problems? Any itchy skin issues?
> 
> I second Somethingelse's idea. I'm gluten intolerant and my son (3) started complaining about random tummy pain. He's now gluten free and hasn't complained anymore. And given that oats can be a trigger for celiacs/the gluten intolerant, bumping up the oatmeal to try and lessen the constipation might be a cycling the problem.
> 
> Also 45 minute poos aren't really going to work when he starts school - so, I'd say now is the time to address this.


Doesn't diarrhea go along with Caeliac? The primary source of Gluten is wheat. Semi-dwarf wheat is what contains the gluten. Food product manufacturers add Gluten as a thickner to just about everything. I did a little checking and it appears that pure oats are gluten free. However, some brands are contaminated with gluten. Check the label. It will list Gluten as an additive.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

No dental issues.
He does complain constantly of an itchy back. That may be hereditary, as I've done the same thing for decades. It is mostly a dry itch - as humidity gets rid of it. My wife might have a leaky gut sometimes (never seen someone get to puking on a quarter glass of wine.)

I'm thinking it was a self-correcting problem - as soon as he understood that refusing to eat prunes, prune juice, pear juice, oatmeal, and graham crackers led to hard poo, he's been quite diligent about making sure that I make oatmeal every morning.

Is gluten intolerance associated with itchiness or is that something else?

--Argyle


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## Elisenowlin (Apr 14, 2013)

When I was little, I was really shy & worried about everything! Do you think it could be stress related? Starting kindergarten? 

Good luck!


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Yes, celiac can go with certain skin conditions. 

Five Common Skin Conditions Associated With Celiac Disease - Celiac.com

All in all, I'd just recommend getting a second opinion - to investigate if it might be an allergy or might possibly be psychosomatic.


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## Purple Cat (Dec 6, 2012)

My 4 year old son was having stomach aches and was plugged up. We gave him stool softner (mirilax) mixed in with his milk and also gave him gummy fiber pills. Those two things did the trick and got everything moving again and no more ache.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

Um. I'm thinking that single changes are easier to track. So, I'm planning on:
(a) Keeping him on a fiber-rich diet.
(b) Switching myself to a gluten-free diet for a month and seeing what happens. (I also have unusually dry/itchy skin and what I'd characterize as a continual sensation of pain in my stomach.) (After that, I might try lactose-free.)
(c) Looking into seeing a specialist/therapist for him.

--Argyle


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## MrsLadyWriter (May 21, 2013)

You may ask the doctor to check to see if he has a hernia. My brother was born with one (many, many years ago) and some of the symptoms your describing sound like what he went through. My brother's was a lot more severe - his pain was so severe he couldn't lie down so as a result barely slept for the first few years of his life until they found out what it was. But the eating problems and poo problems sound almost identical.

It's worth a check maybe?


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

Second opinion may be worth a check.

For now, I think most of it is constipation.

Last discussion with child went:

C: Well, see, when I need to go poo but can't - my tummy hurts a lot. But, the rest of the time, my tummy actually hurts. You don't give me enough oatmeal.

A: Well, do you eat it?

C: Not actually.

A: Try finishing the bowl.

C: ...

--Argyle


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