# To stay or leave my narcissist husband



## LK8 (6 mo ago)

Hi,

I've been seeing so much resilience in all the posts that I've gone through on this forum. Most marriages/ relationships are so many years old and I'm sure it is because of the years worth of effort of these women who tried fighting for their love. Which is why I'm so very confused about my own state.

I have known my husband for 4 years and I've known him in his current state for the last 3 years. A state which didn't reveal itself till we were engaged to be married, a state which was very different from the one I fell in love with. He seemed like such a sweet, simple, calm, patient man that i fell in love with. But right after we got engaged, i started seeing this other side of him where he started criticizing me for how I dressed and when i would push back on this because he used to claim he liked me for how i didn't care too much about my appearances, he would blow up and get so angry and make it all my fault! It started like this and became a pattern. I tried breaking things off multiple times but ultimately still went ahead with the marriage, in the hope, that things would improve. I thought these are merely initial relationship struggles that any new couple goes through and since my husband had never really been in a serious relationship prior to this, he would take time to adapt.

But things got worse after marriage. Our fights got worse. My husband would keep subtly humiliating me, putting me down, make me feel stupid and if i tried talking to him about it, he would get angry leading to a fight. He refused to do anything around the house, if i would tell him even to do something, he would call me a nagging high maintenance wife. He expected me to spend 100% of our free time together watching TV which is what he loves doing. If i ever said i don't want to do it and rather spend my time reading on my own, he would get angry. He'd get angry if i went to bed when i did because he wasn't sleepy. He'd get angry if i made plans to go meet my friends or my family without him. In all of these situations, if i ever tried telling him how he was making me feel, he'd get even more angry. In his anger, he would get verbally abusive, tell me I'm extremely sensitive and have a big ego, throw things around the house or bang things. He's asked me to get out of the house multiple times, once even thrown my stuff out. I've told him multiple times, i can't put up with this and also tried walking out but i always came back eventually.

In all this, my husband never really physically hurt me although there were so many times where i knew he was just on the verge of doing that. This is one of the biggest reasons why I've struggled to decide on how i feel about all this. I kept rationalising everything saying I'm overthinking it, that it's all in my head. I asked my husband so many times to go for counseling but he refused saying it's a waste of time. 2 years of this marriage have not been 100% bad. In fact there have been plenty of good times but it's been such mindgames for me. I've not been able to speak to anyone and I'd be left stuck in my head trying to deal with my feelings. My husband always refused to discuss what happened in our fights after we'd calmed down despite my multiple efforts. He's dismissed almost all of my attempts for us to have conversations around how we can make our marriage less toxic.

2 months ago when we were on a road trip, i became very conscious suddenly of how i operated around my husband. I would say something only after I'd filtered it out in my head first and while I'd speak up, my heart rate would start increasing and my breathing would stop. I don't know for how long I'd starting developing such unhealthy physical reactions but i think this was the trigger i needed to make the decision to leave. In hindsight, i started seeing more clearly then about how over time in our marriage I'd started walking on eggshells around my husband. How I'd become accepting of any blame he put on me whenever something didn't go his way. I stopped asking anything of him, did everything myself to avoid him getting angry. Basically had adapted myself to everything that my husband wanted to the extent that i didn't know anymore what i wanted or liked.

Once we were back from the trip, i moved out. My husband at first was confused. He thought thid was just another one of the times I'd walked out and that I'd come back on cooling down. But when i refused to indulge, he started getting desperate. I finally spoke to him and told him this marriage is done for me and i told him I'm too exhausted to make any effort. That's when i started seeing a while different side to him. He started apologizing, claiming he had no idea it was this bad for me and made promises to be better now that he knows this. He's been asking for another chance since then.

This has all left me very confused. I was very sure when i left that i was done with this marriage. I was expecting to feel regret after a while of leaving but i honestly don't miss him. I'm struggling but I'm okay without him. But i still am not sure what to do for this constant request from him to give this another chance. I think both our families are also waiting for me to make a decision and I'm unable to decide.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

who diagnosed your husband ,


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

LK8 said:


> *In all this, my husband never really physically hurt me although there were so many times where i knew he was just on the verge of doing that.
> 
> I asked my husband so many times to go for counseling but he refused saying it's a waste of time.*


The above 2 factors are very important. I think you should listen to your instinct and be very cautious.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

LK8 said:


> i still am not sure what to do for this constant request from him to give this another chance.


Make your decision knowing this: your husband is not going to change. You will go back first to more of the same, then to worse yet. It's YOUR decision.



LK8 said:


> I think both our families are also waiting for me to make a decision and I'm unable to decide.


Who gives a rat's ass what they are "waiting" for ? Selfish people.... they want you to provide them their comfort zone even though it costs you your life.....to hell with what they want. They are not the ones who have to live with the consequences of your decision. The have THEIR OWN interests as the primary objective, not yours.......



LK8 said:


> That's when i started seeing a while different side to him.


Yes, you are seeing a facade. The very moment he gets you back, he will go back to the REAL side. His current statements are completely fabricated. He hasn't "done the work" which, if done, could cause authentic changes in him. This work is long, arduous, requires serious expeditures in time and money, and has professional people leading. He has done nothing, other than fabricate a "story" to tell you what you want to hear. He is a liar and a con artist. @Laurentium is a professional counselor. His advice is spot-on.

You need to tell him that he must enroll and COMPLETE a program aimed at real change in his personality. That you will observe him for TWO YEARS in this program, and making his changes. At the end of two years, IF you are available, you might consider reconciling with him, IF you have not outgrown him yourself.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

Where did you go when you moved out? Are you staying with relatives? Is that why they are pressuring you to make a decision? Are you working?


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

LK8 said:


> In all this, my husband never really physically hurt me although there were so many times where i knew he was just on the verge of doing that.


Don't go back. Whatever you do, do NOT go back. Once it goes physical, there's nothing stopping him from doing something fatal.


LK8 said:


> 2 years of this marriage have not been 100% bad. In fact there have been plenty of good times but it's been such mindgames for me.


Nope. Don't go back to a whole lot of bad just for the little bit of good. 


LK8 said:


> He started apologizing, claiming he had no idea it was this bad for me and made promises to be better now that he knows this. He's been asking for another chance since then.


I call absolute bs. He knows _exactly_ what he did. And he's still doing it to keep you under his thumb. Once you go back, I guarantee he'll make it even harder for you to leave. I'm even afraid that we might not hear from you next time.

If you've left, that means you're at least somewhere safe, right? Do NOT let him know where you are. Lawyer up. Are there any friends you can get in touch with that are not pressuring you to make a decision? Your head's been messed up by his manipulation and abuse, so of course it's going to take some time to untangle that mess. But don't put any stock into his words anymore; his actions say more than enough and he has the potential to be _dangerous_. Exercise caution, OP.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LK8 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been seeing so much resilience in all the posts that I've gone through on this forum. Most marriages/ relationships are so many years old and I'm sure it is because of the years worth of effort of these women who tried fighting for their love. Which is why I'm so very confused about my own state.
> 
> ...


He is a narcissistic liar prepared to "act" like a nice person just like he did before marriage if he can make you believe it. Please take this opportunity to put an end to this abuse.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sadly you married him despite many red flags and now you are facing the consequences. He isn't going to change, he will act nicely for a short time and then will revert back to his normal self.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Abusive people get worse as they get older and the longer you show that you'll tolerate it. Cut your losses and break ties for good so you can move on.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

What I can't understand after a fairly well layout explanation of your situation is what is wrong with you, for you to still "considering"? There shouldn't be by now any hesitation. 

Is really concerning that after a life like hell with your husband you are still pondering. Really, think about it, you saw the real him after engagement, and married him anyway. You now know who he REALLY is, and you're now doubting yourself, just because he told you what you wanted the hear?

Come on lady, time to think straight.
GET OUT of this relationship. Do not make the mistake of going back. He is who he is, and he's not changing. If he were very young, I can see with proper professional guidance a possible controlling of his inner self, but if he's like late twenty or more, forget about it, just forget about it. There's no way he will change.

You need to get counseling to figure out why you let him to disrespect you, to control you, to treat you like a possession. You need to do this for you, so that you do not repeat this with someone else.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

One of the biggest red flags is when a partner starts showing these behaviours after a locking down. Usually an engagement, marriage, birth or a child, home purchase etc. 

Once a partner ‘has you’ in some major way, and changes it’s a good warning. We’re all on our best behaviour sure, in the beginning. And we’re all guilty of taking things for granted too, thinking that the big commitment is there so we can stop trying. 

But that is very different to becoming abusive. And continuing once the partner says hey hang on a minute, this is not cool. If they keep doing it then it’s a pattern that’s usually going to get worse. We can all slip up, but most of us do feel bad when a partner pulls us up on something, and we feel terrible we made them feel bad. Another warning sign is when a partner becomes defensive and angry after being pulled up. So in other words, they hurt you, you told them or asked them not to do it again and they rage at you and then YOU feel worse. 

It doesn’t look good. And it didn’t look good as soon as you got engaged and he changed.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Leave.


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## Coloratura (Sep 28, 2021)

Please leave. Leave. Take this opportunity before you have children or any further things that tie to with him. I have just gotten out of an almost 28 year marriage with an emotionally abusive narcissist and it is like I can finally breathe again. If things are this bad now and you said you are ok without him, please don’t go back!


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Openminded said:


> Leave.


yep, do not go backwards!

every perpetrator needs a victim. Don’t volunteer to be his victim anymore!

read that last part 5 times.


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## LK8 (6 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> who diagnosed your husband ,


My sister, who's a psychologist, pointed this out to me when i finally told her what's been happening. I understand there's a difference between a person who displays narcissistic traits and one who suffers from narcissistic personality disorder. Upon reading on these differences further, I'm more convinced he suffers from NPD and unfortunately for a narcissist to be diagnosed of it, he needs to volunteer which i don't think my husband is ready for.


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## LK8 (6 mo ago)

Erudite said:


> Where did you go when you moved out? Are you staying with relatives? Is that why they are pressuring you to make a decision? Are you working?


 A friend helped me move out but eventually i moved in with my parents. There is no pressure as such but it does seem like the onus of making this marriage work lies with me now once again by giving this another chance. And i am feeling alot of resentment about this. Because for everyone else this might be a second chance, to me it is the nth chance because I've tried so many times in the past and it has not gotten better.

I am working and my job has been such a bane and boon together. I'm grateful for the distraction most days but on some days it gets too much to handle the stress of the job with this.


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## LK8 (6 mo ago)

Spoons027 said:


> Don't go back. Whatever you do, do NOT go back. Once it goes physical, there's nothing stopping him from doing something fatal.
> 
> Nope. Don't go back to a whole lot of bad just for the little bit of good.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I think i needed to hear this. It gets very confusing constantly going back and forth between the feelings of wanting to end this and maybe it's all not so bad and that things might actually get better if i go back. And i know no one around me is able to tell me clearly because they don't want to influence me in my decision making process. This has to be my decision. But it gets very hard.


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## LK8 (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Abusive people get worse as they get older and the longer you show that you'll tolerate it. Cut your losses and break ties for good so you can move on.


But what I want to know is is this entirely true? Has no one seen change for the better in abusive people? My husband says this entire experience has been so traumatic for him that he is definitely has to change for the better. This is to give me the assurance that things will be better if i give this another chance. The therapist I was seeing also told me change is possible which is what makes me even more hesitant about not giving this another chance.


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## LK8 (6 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> What I can't understand after a fairly well layout explanation of your situation is what is wrong with you, for you to still "considering"? There shouldn't be by now any hesitation.
> 
> Is really concerning that after a life like hell with your husband you are still pondering. Really, think about it, you saw the real him after engagement, and married him anyway. You now know who he REALLY is, and you're now doubting yourself, just because he told you what you wanted the hear?
> 
> ...


Yes i know it seems like that. I know for a fact, that the person i was 5 years ago would listen to all this and wonder the same. That why would anyone put up with this. I used to be so much clearer on what is right and wrong. I feel like marriage has made me discovered that most of life is grey and in doing that, I've lost a complete sense of boundaries.

I wonder still about giving this another chance because i think about just the way my husband tells me he's going to get better, there were things i did maybe that also resulted in this bad marriage. Maybe we can give this another chance this time with him being less abusive and me having a better sense of my boundaries. Maybe this alone will help with making this marriage work. 

I know by most logic, getting out of this is the most sensible thing to do. But I'm just wondering if there is anyway i can avoid the extremely painful process of divorce if there is any shot at finding happiness at the same place that I'd thought in the first place.


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## LK8 (6 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> One of the biggest red flags is when a partner starts showing these behaviours after a locking down. Usually an engagement, marriage, birth or a child, home purchase etc.
> 
> Once a partner ‘has you’ in some major way, and changes it’s a good warning. We’re all on our best behaviour sure, in the beginning. And we’re all guilty of taking things for granted too, thinking that the big commitment is there so we can stop trying.
> 
> ...


Yes this is exactly how it's been feeling! Like i can't ever express and i have to accept this marriage as it is with me being a constant ball of stress.


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## LK8 (6 mo ago)

Coloratura said:


> Please leave. Leave. Take this opportunity before you have children or any further things that tie to with him. I have just gotten out of an almost 28 year marriage with an emotionally abusive narcissist and it is like I can finally breathe again. If things are this bad now and you said you are ok without him, please don’t go back!


Thank you! I'm so glad to hear you feel better off. Are you happy in your life now?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

LK8 said:


> But what I want to know is is this entirely true? Has no one seen change for the better in abusive people? My husband says this entire experience has been so traumatic for him that he is definitely has to change for the better. This is to give me the assurance that things will be better if i give this another chance. The therapist I was seeing also told me change is possible which is what makes me even more hesitant about not giving this another chance.


 Until your husband is willing to help himself your best action is to divorce him , 
he thinks it is traumatic but he lives off that ,so he is getting what he feeds off, your sister , is in the best place to help you and advise you as she knows him ,or knows one side of him ,


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

LK8 said:


> But what I want to know is is this entirely true? Has no one seen change for the better in abusive people? My husband says this entire experience has been so traumatic for him that he is definitely has to change for the better. This is to give me the assurance that things will be better if i give this another chance. The therapist I was seeing also told me change is possible which is what makes me even more hesitant about not giving this another chance.


no, just no. NPD don’t change. Know that.
They will lie to get the outcome they want - but they don’t change and they certainly don’t take responsibility for the way they participate… enough to truly change.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

LK8 said:


> Has no one seen change for the better in abusive people? *My husband says* this entire experience has been so traumatic for him that he is definitely has to change for the better. This is to give me the assurance that things will be better if i give this another chance. The therapist I was seeing also told me change is possible which is what makes me even more hesitant about not giving this another chance.


I'm another therapist. And as therapists, we pretty much have to believe that change is _possible._ And yes, I believe it is. But pay no attention to what he _says._ Those are just sounds coming out of his mouth.


> this entire experience has been so traumatic for him that he definitely has to change for the better.


Yeah, this is like the stuff alcoholics say when they wake up with a hangover. "I'm definitely never going to drink again". Yeah, right.

You said you sensed when he was near to violence. You said you sensed when he was trying to humiliate you. If he changes, you'll sense it. Without paying any attention to his _words_. Let him go in to individual therapy, and ask him not to tell you about it. Maybe in a year's time you'll be able to tell that something has changed. If he demands that you have to tell him what change you want, that's no good.

In the mean time, keep yourself safe.


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## Erudite (Jan 28, 2015)

Stay done. Nowhere in your responses do you say you are still in love or that you love him at all. You probably do have feelings for him but is it LOVE? Don't confuse nostalgic memories with real love. Some people are just toxic for each other. 

It must be so hard to look at him when he makes these promises. He probably even believes it himself right now. The pattern however will go thusly. He will "change". You will be unable to trust it, you won't engage how he wants, and so he will use your lack of engagement to treat you poorly again. OR he will "change" long enough to lull you into a false sense of security then revert back to treating yoy poorly again. See? Either way you lose.

He may truly be able to change himself. But he has to do it for himself not you. Likely any lasting change will be positive for his next relationship. Not you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@LK8 if you stay with your husband you are doing neither yourself or him any favours.

Being allowed to abuse you is bad for you and also bad for him.

Divorce him for the betterment of you and of him.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> And as therapists, we pretty much have to believe that change is _possible._ And yes, I believe it is


What you guys call "change", is nothing but modification, control, learned behavior that triggers a modified response. You can not change yourself, you are who you are and that Character is genetic it's you. As we age and develop in society our personality modifies our character in order to be able to function within society.

If your natural borne character is influenced by other negative factors such a mental illness, is as we know extremely difficult to control that characters. Chemicals helps but at a cost that most patients would rather kill themselves, or stop taking the drugs and go back to their crazy selves.

So, in OP case, depending on the severity of her husband's condition (if any), learning to modify his behavior might not be possible at all. .
Nonetheless, OP in any case shouldn't take the chance and go back to someone with which she shouldn't think of procreating.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LK8 said:


> But what I want to know is is this entirely true? Has no one seen change for the better in abusive people? My husband says this entire experience has been so traumatic for him that he is definitely has to change for the better. This is to give me the assurance that things will be better if i give this another chance. The therapist I was seeing also told me change is possible which is what makes me even more hesitant about not giving this another chance.


I am nearly 70 years old and I have never seen an abusive person change for the better and especially if they are narcissistic. Any change would just be temporary. And just so you know for a narcissist anytime they are not getting their way and someone is not putting their needs number one ahead of their own, they view that as traumatic.

There are some articles you should read that are directly relating to narcissists on this forum under the main menu under Articles. They are from Psychology Today. Read them and see if it's familiar.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Since you know his history - you divorce him based on his history being unreasonable.

to stay waiting for change - no. I disagree with the post above - a narcissist rarely changes. If they do it’s highly unusual. If they do it’s to manipulate even further.


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## Coloratura (Sep 28, 2021)

LK8 said:


> Thank you! I'm so glad to hear you feel better off. Are you happy in your life now?


Yes!!! I finally feel at peace. The divorce will not be final for a little while longer but now that we do not communicate other than regarding our children I feel so much healthier and happier. I feel like my soul has been freed and I can finally live for myself and for my daughter rather than spending every waking minute with him occupying my brain.

So many people here helped me get out and I received wonderful advice. I hope TAM can help you as well. I am so sorry you are going through this. However, the longer you stay, the longer he will keep you tied to him using manipulation and gaslighting. At least, that was my experience.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Sadly you married him despite many red flags and now you are facing the consequences. He isn't going to change, he will act nicely for a short time and then will revert back to his normal self.


This. Get out while you can. The dude is a loose cannon and there is nothing good in the marriage for you. There are tons of good guys out there. Take your time and follow your instincts next time.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I don't know if he's a real narcissist or not but he is a real abusive man you need to get away from. First step is get a family law attorney. Follow their advice because they need to lock down finances do as much as possible to minimize the carnage.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't know if he's a real narcissist or not but he is a real abusive man you need to get away from. First step is get a family law attorney. Follow their advice because they need to lock down finances do as much as possible to minimize the carnage.


Agreed. Label it whatever you want, he’s not a good man. Good men don’t bully or boss their wives around. They don’t always put themselves first and expect their wives to cater to their whims. They don’t force their wives into subservient and subjugated roles to “feel” like a man. If you have to act like a meek, frightened little girl so a man can “feel” like a man, it’s because he is NOT a man. You deserve and can do much better than some manipulative, bullying jerk who puts you down.


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