# Extreme Jealousy



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I don't know what to do.

My fiance is a gorgeous woman - has done modeling and some bit parts in (smaller) music videos as "Hot Girl" and all of that. But she's the most jealous person I've ever met. 

I noticed it since we started dating: she'd refer to Celebrity Male X as "handsome" or "attractive" or something and the conversation would continue. I'd do the same thing regarding Celebrity Female X and the conversation would stop and she would become icy cold. 

It's gotten worse as we've grown closer. Shortly after we became engaged, she mentioned that, as a teenager, she loved going to rock concerts primarily because she liked seeing the band members she had crushes on - and named a few. I responded that I didn't really have crushes on any female singers, except maybe Singer G. She immediately demanded that we leave the restaurant we were at and I had to drop her off at her apartment. To this day, we can't listen to Singer X's music - she will turn off the radio if it comes on and become cold.

A similar story: we were browsing Netflix and she saw a movie starring Actress C. She said "Actress C is so gorgeous. Don't you think?" I joked around and avoided the question. She became insistent and demanded that I answer her question. When I finally said "She's not bad looking" she flipped out. We can't watch movies with Actress C in them. 

When pressed, my fiance will admit that she thinks it's wrong for me to find any other women physically attractive. She says it's different for her finding other men physically attractive because women don't connect physical attraction and sex (???). 


But the worst of it centers on my ex-girlfriend, who I was dating for about a year and a half before I met my fiance. My fiance never met her and I broke up with her over 3 years ago. 

However, my fiance has an extreme hatred towards her for dating me and demanded not only that I defriend her on facebook (a reasonable request, I suppose) but also that I ask every member of my family and all of my friends to defriend her on facebook as well. We have a fight about my ex just about once every two months, generally because my fiance is reminded of her in some way or another (seeing a character with her name in a movie, etc) and gets incensed. Or, if we hang out with my friends, she will get upset because "they definitely liked your ex better than me." 

My fiance was married before we met and was in three very serious relationships after that marriage and before she met me. I ask if I should be as jealous of her as she is of me - she says I can do that if I want, but it would be cruel because I don't actually feel that way and would just be punishing her.


I am just at wits end. I love this woman and hate fighting with her. I have stopped talking about finding other women attractive entirely, but that's only made her begin soliciting my opinion on certain women - and if I say "no, I don't find her attractive" she accuses me of being dishonest. She accuses me of thinking of my ex (who I last saw THREE years ago!) on a fairly regular basis. 


What can one do with this sort of jealousy? Will it ever subside? 
(Congratulations on getting this far if you've read the whole thing!)


----------



## whitecat (May 17, 2013)

Unfortunately, it will probably never stop and in fact will probably get much much worse. Unless she gets some therapy, and even then it's iffy. This kind of extreme irrational jealousy stems from a very deep-seated insecurity within herself and it is one that you can never fix. It's hard to leave someone that you love, but there is a deep dark hole inside herself and she will pull you in there too. If you can, try to detach now and save yourself more pain. Or you can stay and wait until it gets much worse.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

This level of irrational jealousy would be a red flag/deal breaker for me, and no matter how great she may seem to be otherwise, I'd walk. She will use this to completely control your life and make you miserable - walking on eggshells for fear of triggering her is not healthy or happy.


----------



## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

I don't think this level of jealousy is just going to subside on it's own, especially if it's to the level of not being able to watch ANY films with a specific actress.
And the thing with your ex is just completely irrational. Did she meet you expecting you not to have had a life in the past?

Have you tried talking with her about how extreme this is, and would she be open to counseling? I don't think this is a situation that can be resolved without it, honestly.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Run. Don't walk. Run!!!! And don't come back until she deals with this problem. 

I get it, she's extremely attractive. But you still need to run away, like yesterday!

Jodi Arias was extremely attractive too, and jealous. Look at how that worked out: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Travis_Alexander


----------



## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

SoWhat said:


> However, my fiance has an extreme hatred towards her for dating me and demanded not only that I defriend her on facebook (a reasonable request, I suppose)* but also that I ask every member of my family and all of my friends to defriend her on facebook as well.*
> (Congratulations on getting this far if you've read the whole thing!)


Not only is she irrationally jealous she sounds like a extreme control freak too, I agree with what others have said do yourself a favor and get out of the relationship, you're not going to be able to appease her jealous nature.


----------



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

My W is like that. Trust me, it won't get better. 

And...the gorgeous ones, after dating a few, I'll pass.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She has problems. It's not going to get better probably much worse. Do you have to hang your head down in public while with her? God forbid you look in the direction of another woman. If that hasn't happened yet....it will.
If you really love her go see a therapist now. Don't get married while this is a issue.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Run. Don't walk. Run!!!! And don't come back until she deals with this problem.
> 
> I get it, she's extremely attractive. But you still need to run away, like yesterday!
> 
> ...


Haha, there are actually a number of Arias parallels. No violence though.
I'm not leaving her. I don't know what I'll do, but I am not leaving her now. If it gets worse, maybe.
Obviously all of our looks will fade - I was pointing out her looks to say, I suppose - this is precisely the sort of person who should almost never feel jealous. 
She will almost always be the best looking woman in every room. What she wants, though, is to be the only attractive person in any room (or at least be that in my eyes).


I've come at her with all this in a very calm, sympathetic, and rational manner. She responded angrily and said "yeah, I'm just effing crazy!" 
She did, however, say that she'd get therapy if I really believed she needed it - but didn't think we could afford it and that therapy didn't accomplish anything when she went previously (at suggestion of her ex). That somewhat grudging acceptance of the possibility of therapy gave me hope. She is committed to our relationship, I know that much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

richie33 said:


> She has problems. It's not going to get better probably much worse. Do you have to hang your head down in public while with her? God forbid you look in the direction of another woman. If that hasn't happened yet....it will.
> If you really love her go see a therapist now. Don't get married while this is a issue.


I am very, very careful in public. I try to always keep my eyes on her if there are other women around. It's worked so far.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

You want to live like that for the rest of your life?


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I would rethink this engagement. Seriously, I get that men put up with a lot for gorgeous and sex but this is already out of control. Many men don't realize that the model types, particularly those who have actually worked as models, are some of the most insecure women out there. They are held to ridiculous standards and have a very short shelf life in the industry; they get old quickly and there's always a younger one ready to step in. If you think it's bad now wait until she gets older and has to deal with aging, or has kids and her body changes a little. 
Also, the double standard she has is indicative of someone that must have the upper hand in the power balance of the relationship. I know she's hot but this is going to be a nightmare that will only get worse; it's not going to be worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Guys, I just want to be clear: I *am* appreciative of her beauty, but I'm not with her solely because she's good looking. She's a few years older than me anyway and I recognize that her looks will fade, and in the not too distant future too.

I was pointing it out just to say she *shouldn't* be jealous all the time, if she could see it objectively. Obviously she can't, but it is frustrating.


----------



## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

Stay with her if you want ,but one day you will be tired if she is not willing to change. Basically you are not who you are around her. You are not allowed to even think, if you cannot say anything about actress or celebrity, even movies!! This is abusive relationship. Keep trying. Make your decisions but this is not a life. if you think counseling would not work, be yourself. Dont try to respond to her controlling needs and see what will happen. Good luck.


----------



## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

SoWhat, you ask about your fiancé being hyper jealous. I ask you this: Why are you with such a horrible person? Why would you want to marry such an immature person? I think my questions are a lot more important then you asking about her jealousy.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Like the saying....think of the most beautiful woman in the world.....somewhere there is a man tired of her bs. 
This will grow old very quick OP.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

WalterWhite said:


> SoWhat, you ask about your fiancé being hyper jealous. I ask you this: Why are you with such a horrible person? Why would you want to marry such an immature person? I think my questions are a lot more important then you asking about her jealousy.


I don't think she's a horrible person. I do think she's BPD.
But she's very loyal to me, was very supportive of me during a terrible time of my life, is kind, affectionate, has similar values with regard to important things... all that stuff.

She just has certain triggers. The jealousy is probably the biggest.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Wow! Watch out for bunny boiling next! She really needs to get some help soon. Its nice when someone is possessive because it shows that they love you - but this is going beyond normal possessiveness!


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Or if not bunny boiling, she will cheat on you down the road. After a while your validation will no longer be enough for her and she will seek it elsewhere. 

Hand her an icy bottle of Coca Cola, tell her to smile, kiss her on the cheek and say adios muchacha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fleur de Cactus (Apr 6, 2013)

If you suspect BPD, maybe medication and counseling would help? is she taking any medication?


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Or if not bunny boiling, she will cheat on you down the road. After a while your validation will no longer be enough for her and she will seek it elsewhere.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wonder about this. 
She's never given me a reason to doubt her fidelity to me, but her self-esteem does require quite a bit of validation.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Fleur de Cactus said:


> If you suspect BPD, maybe medication and counseling would help? is she taking any medication?


antidepressants and a sleep aid
she has anxiety medication for the panic attacks she sometimes has


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Remember Phil Hartman from SNL? His wife was just like your GF, and look what happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I get the impression you don't want to hear anything other that 'it will be ok, she'll get better'.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I get the impression you don't want to hear anything other that 'it will be ok, she'll get better'.


That's not accurate, no.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Marrying her will be the biggest mistake of your life. 

Do not let her looks be the reason you ignore this huge problem. 

After a while you won't be able to go out with her without an argument. You won't be able to Watch TV. Read magazines. You will live in fear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> I do think she's BPD. But she's very loyal to me....


SoWhat, if she really does have strong BPD traits, as you suspect, she is incapable of trusting you -- which would account for her controlling behavior, irrational jealousy, and extreme fear of abandonment. Due to her emotional instability, a BPDer is unable to trust herself. Until she learns how to do that, she will be incapable of trusting you.

I mention this because it took me 15 years to realize that, when a woman cannot trust YOU, then you can never trust HER -- because she can turn on you at any time and will certainly do so eventually. My BPDer exW, for example, was devoted and loyal to me. And she dearly loved me. Yet, because she was unstable, she often exhibited an irrational jealousy and fear of abandonment.

What I found was that, as the years go by and the BPDer sees her body aging, her abandonment fear grows much stronger and increasingly painful for her to bear. At the same time, she becomes more resentful each year for your inability to make her happy or fix her.

The result was that my devoted, loving exW started splitting me black more and more frequently -- during which times she was completely out of touch with her love for me. She eventually became so fearful of abandonment that she decided to end the fear and pain by preemptively abandoning me. Hence, 15 years into our marriage, she abandoned me. 

By "abandoned me" I mean she called the police and had me arrested on a bogus charge of brutalizing her. While I was in jail, she easily obtain a R/O barring me from returning to my own home (when you are arrested, the courts hand out R/O's like candy, for the asking). I have since learned that such false arrests are a common occurrence when BPDers decide to terminate the marriage. Their caregiver husbands -- i.e., men like me -- are loath to walk out on a sick loved one and thus hold on to the very end, which typically occurs about 15 years into the relationship. 

Like I said, you cannot trust someone who is incapable of trusting you because they eventually will turn on you. This is why _trust_ is the foundation on which all successful marriages and other long-term relationships must be built. And this is why it is rare for a BPDer to have any long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away).


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Clearly, bringing up her looks was a bad idea. 
My intended point was missed and now I have people telling me not marry her just because she looks good. 

That's not it. I've been with gorgeous women before and didn't propose to any of them. 

I'm sorry if I was confusing with that whole bit.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Interesting point about the friends, Uptown. As usual, you provide a lot of insight into the BPD issues.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Nobody is telling you not to marry her because of her looks and you know it. She could be ugly as sin and you would be told the same thing. Wise up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Nobody is telling you not to marry her because of her looks and you know it. She could be ugly as sin and you would be told the same thing. Wise up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I think there's a current of "Don't marry her JUST BECAUSE she's hot." 

And I'm not. 

And I'm not saying there's no chance I ever back out of this relationship. That's why I'm asking for opinions from people with experience - do jealous spouses ever get less jealous? Do they always get MORE jealous? etc.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

She is not jealous. She is controlling. 

It will not get better if she thinks her needs and feelings are right/normal. As you become less and less willing to argue when she is upset she will solidify her control. You will become very unhappy and probably passive aggressive in retaliation. 

Essentially, you will become whipped and she will control you while you are together. You will want to spend more time apart do you can relax and this will make her nervous so issues will escalate. She will fight to regain control. 

So there is a good guess at what your future looks like if she doesn't want to seek help for this problem.

Leaving her at the restaurant the next time she pulls something like that would help you and possibly her. Just be forewarned that it may only get her to act nice until you are comfortable again. 

This is a very large problem and one I think should make you consider leaving her and finding someone who will not be such a project.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks. I think there's a lot of truth to that, especially re: passive aggressiveness.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You will be married for 50 years.
Is this what you want for the next 50 years?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Wow

I could have SO MUCH FUN with such a woman all the way to the split



> we can't listen to Singer X's music - she will turn off the radio if it comes on and become cold.... We can't watch movies with Actress C in them.


lol

Mate, stand up for your manhood. You let her express her own admiration of men/her own crushes yet she doesn't even have the courtesy to allow you to express yours?

I'm not suggesting you leave her or anything like that - yet. But I sure as hell am suggesting that you stop ALLOWING her to get away with her immature behaviour.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I could understand why she is divorced and had three serious relationships that went "KABLOOEY". The woman is in love with herself and if she's not the center of attention then she gets bent out of shape. 

Friend I want you to do something. Starting today, keep your eyes above her neck and keep them there for a while. Don't look at her boobs, butt, and all point in between, open your ears and LISTEN TO WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY. It seems like in her opinion the world revolves around her there is nothing more important to her then..................her. Remember eyes up. Now after a while ask yourself if you honestly think she's going to change and if she's going to make you happy. Oh you will just as long as it's all about her. If that's what you want, then go for it but God be with you because you going to experience a real bumpy ride. She will demand all the freedom that she wants and deny you the same except to be her whipping boy. Her demands and behavior should give you a preview of what your marriage will be like. If that's what you want then good luck to you because I have no doubt she'll go as far as to tell you to stop seeing your family. Think real hard.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

SoWhat said:


> Clearly, bringing up her looks was a bad idea.
> My intended point was missed and now I have people telling me not marry her just because she looks good.
> 
> That's not it. I've been with gorgeous women before and didn't propose to any of them.
> ...


I understand, you love her, and it's not just for her looks.

In fact, *this could actually work in your favor*. Think about it. If you find your fiance's sister annoying, and you don't want to visit her, just tell her how hot her sister is. Then you won't be seeing her again. Same with your fiance's mother - if you don't want to visit her mom, just tell her what a MILF her mom is. You have an easy ticket to get out of any annoying family functions you don't want to go to!

But in all seriousness, consider this. What if you have children? Will she be jealous if the children have a good relationship with you? From reading similar threads on TAM, the answer is it's very likely. I even read one woman confess here that she was hurt and jealous when her husband complimented their daughter's looks. If your fiance threw a fit over that, could you handle it?


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Theseus said:


> I understand, you love her, and it's not just for her looks.
> 
> In fact, *this could actually work in your favor*. Think about it. If you find your fiance's sister annoying, and you don't want to visit her, just tell her how hot her sister is. Then you won't be seeing her again. Same with your fiance's mother - if you don't want to visit her mom, just tell her what a MILF her mom is. You have an easy ticket to get out of any annoying family functions you don't want to go to!
> /QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...if you suspect she's BPD. Well, we all make choices. Some choices are wiser than others. BPDs vary a lot in type and extremes of behavior too...

...typically, after marriage, there's a sudden, significant worsening of behaviors, including jealousy. After that (and this portion is somewhat dependent on your behavior), you should expect gradual increases in instability.

...for reference, my wife started out with jealousy and occasional arguments, moved onto screaming fits and rages, and gradually escalated into use of edged weapons and poor behavior to children.

...things have improved...after some fairly pointed communications; a brief spell in jail; the start of divorce proceedings; and a bit over 3 years of therapy. Improved is not the same as sane.

...however, my opinion remains that marriage is generally related to children and that it is not a kindness to the children to be born with a BPD mother. Please google 'turning gold into lead children' before starting a family.

--Argyle


----------



## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

SoWhat said:


> I don't think she's a horrible person. I do think she's BPD.
> But she's very loyal to me, was very supportive of me during a terrible time of my life, is kind, affectionate, has similar values with regard to important things... all that stuff.
> 
> She just has certain triggers. The jealousy is probably the biggest.


By BPD, do you mean Bi-Polar Disorder? If so, understand that her type are the WORSE people you can possibly marry. You are asking for a ton of problems in your future, if you marry this person. You will one day, regret having been mixed up with such a person.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

WalterWhite said:


> By BPD, do you mean Bi-Polar Disorder?


Usually, by BPD, people mean "Borderline Personality Disorder" which is different from being Bi-Polar. But the abbreviations can be confusing.


----------



## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Usually, by BPD, people mean "Borderline Personality Disorder" which is different from being Bi-Polar. But the abbreviations can be confusing.


OH MY GOD, BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER IS EVEN WORSE!!! OP: I promise you that you well GREATLY regret marrying such a person. There is NO cure for borderline...it is the WORSE disorder for a married partner. She will destroy you!


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So she said that she would go to therapy if you thought that it would help her and if you think she has a problem. Didn't I tell you that unless she believes she has a problem that nothing will change? I also told you that if you confront her she will probably be on her best behavior for a little while but the nonsense will creep back in. In other words you're hope and optimism is not well founded.

Have you ever tried to break up with her before?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

i created an account just to post this.

ive been on and off with a woman exactly like yours for the last 5 years. It started with small bouts of jealousy until it got to the point she wanted me to look at the wall if an attractive woman appeared on screen. i had a child with this woman and while i dont regret him one bit i cannot help but think my life would have been so much better had i taken note of the early red flags,

She is gorgeous and i mean knock out gorgeous, to the point where i feel intimidated while we were out because she would get so much male attention.

Living with someone who is this insecure slowly starts to take its toll on your mental health, i got to the point (after 2 years) where i thought i was going to have a nervous breakdown. I had to get out of there, so i left. Within 2 days she was sleeping with a work colleague (we work at the same place), and she was totally devoted to me. Yet she is so insecure if shes not getting it from me she will seek it elsewhere.

Women like this cannot provide there own validity and will always need an external source, the minute your not providing enough for her she will get it somewhere.

Mark my words youre in store for one hell of a ride, and no one here will be able to convince you to leave.

Someone else said just listen to what she says, i agree with them, actions speak louder than words. I wish i had this advice before i had gotten in too deep.

good luck my friend


----------



## silentghost (Jan 28, 2013)

Sowhat....time to say bye-bye. 
People with extreme jealous nature will make your life living hell. SHe's not worth your time or energy to deal with....because it won't get better.

BTW....if you meet another girl....DO NOT...I repeat ...DO NOT....keep in contact with your exes. Delete them off your FB or whatever. 
Keeping in contact with your exes...will mess your gf's mind...and she will resent you for it.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

This has trainwreck written all over it. She is being ridiculous and incredibly immature.

This will not get better without serious therapy, and will only get worse, much worse, without it.

You think she's bad now? Wait until she has that wedding ring on her finger...she'll take it to a whole new level of crazy.

The next time she does this, you should remove yourself from the situation immediately. No matter where you are, get up and leave. When she contacts you, tell her your engagement is "on hold" until she seeks therapy - and that she will have your full support if she does so...that you're more than willing to go with her.

You're doing this for her as much as for yourself - she must be incredibly stressed to feel this way all the time....imagine living like that???

Good luck, but do not marry her until she does something about this.


----------



## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SoWhat said:


> I don't know what to do.
> 
> My fiance is a gorgeous woman - has done modeling and some bit parts in (smaller) music videos as "Hot Girl" and all of that. But she's the most jealous person I've ever met.
> 
> ...


I posted this on another thread.

*14 Identifiable Traits of a Female Narcissist.*

*Personality/Character*

1]She insists on being the center of attention, and is often the most charming person in the room. Narcissists are very outgoing and excel at marketing themselves.

2]She often seeks favorable treatment, and automatic compliance. She believes that she is special, and that she deserves fame, fortune, success and happiness.

3]She is highly materialistic.

4]She is prone to envy, though she presents as supremely confident. She seeks opportunities to undermine others, and enjoys sharing confidences about how the two of you are better than others.

5]She is convinced that others are envious and jealous of her, and often uses this excuse for her lack of real, intimate friendships. When her friends enjoy successes of their own, she finds ways to punish them by downplaying their achievements.

6]She lacks empathy, and even common courtesy at times. She puts others down, including you. She does not hesitate to exploit others.

7]She is very competitive.

8]She believes that she is intellectually superior to her peers.

9]She blames others for problems. Narcissists don’t believe that they make mistakes, and lack the ability to process shame.

10]She displays a haughty attitude when she lets her guard down or is confronted. She will act impatient, arrogant and condescending. She will often excuse her own shortcomings by claiming that others are pressuring her or expecting too much of her.

11]She is dishonest and often lies to get what she wants. She will never admit this.

12]She is “psycho:” She engages in risky behaviors, has an addictive personality, and is prone to aggressive behavior when rejected. (Note: This is most common with Histrionic Personality Disorder.)

13]She is unpredictable in her moods and actions. You have trouble figuring out what she wants and where you stand.

14]She is capable of short-term regret, and will apologize profusely if backed into a corner. However, she will quickly rationalize her behavior and return to narcissistic patterns.



Hope it helps.


----------



## bailingout (Jan 25, 2013)

SoWhat said:


> I noticed it since we started dating: she'd refer to Celebrity Male X as "handsome" or "attractive" or something and the conversation would continue. I'd do the same thing regarding Celebrity Female X and the conversation would stop and she would become icy cold.
> 
> It's gotten worse as we've grown closer. Shortly after we became engaged, she mentioned that, as a teenager, she loved going to rock concerts primarily because she liked seeing the band members she had crushes on - and named a few. I responded that I didn't really have crushes on any female singers, except maybe Singer G. She immediately demanded that we leave the restaurant we were at and I had to drop her off at her apartment. To this day, we can't listen to Singer X's music - she will turn off the radio if it comes on and become cold.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry SoWhat but I have to agree with the others who have said this is not going to get any better. It's not impossible but hardly likely. 

There is a saying that goes like this "You teach people how to treat you". What that means is that you have taught her that it is ok to be like this, that you are willing to accept it. 

It started the first time you tolerated this ridiculous behavior by dealing with the "icy cold". That was the first **** test. Then she upped it next time by demanding you leave the restaurant, and you did it. You put up with it when she changes the radio station, by not watching a movie because of whomever, every time you cater to this behavior is basically saying, OK, I'm sorry you feel bad and because I care about you I will accommodate you even if I think it's ridiculous. She is doing it because she can get away with it. 

She has some serious issues and because you care about her she will not face those issues until SHE takes responsibility for them. And until now, she has avoided taking care of them because no one has forced her to by simply walking away at the first **** test. She has had a marriage and 3 other relationships end...why? I bet if you ask her she will blame the men. Listen to her words, not one thing will be what SHE did. If she has not figured out that SHE played a part in 4 relationships failing she probably never will. That means that you will either live a miserable life catering to this crap or you will eventually end the relationship. If you do end it, you will just become the next one to be blamed and then others will step in and allow the same thing. It won't stop unless there are CONSEQUENCES. 

If you won't leave her now there is only one thing you can try. The next time she pulls the crap, tell her to stop it or you will not tolerate it and WALK AWAY. Hang up, leave the restaurant or her apt, wherever you are. Ignore her calls a few times and do NOT argue your point in any way. When you do decide to answer, tell her simply to apologize, if she won't apologize or starts a fight or yells, hang up. Repeat as long as necessary. 

My husband has jealousy issues (they are NOT caused by ME) and in order to keep them at bay he thinks he needs to know where I'm at and what I'm doing at all times. (He is also very controlling and has numerous other issues.) His solution (for the jealousy part) was to call me constantly during the day when he's at work ( at least once a day and up to 5-6 times) but rarely talks to me at night or in the morning when we are both home. Sometimes he actually needs something but most of the time he makes up stupid reasons to call me but never calls just to check in like some spouses do (he used to occasionally). Every time he calls the first words out of his mouth are...hi, where are you? what are you doing? are you at home or X? I felt like I was constantly being interrogated and checked up on. I had mentioned to him previously numerous times for YEARS how I felt and he dismissed it every time by blaming me, telling me I was paranoid or up something, that I didn't understand what real communication is, whatever.... I let it continue by always answering the phone when he called. The more it continued, the more annoyed I got. He called one day while I was out (he didn't know I was going anywhere but claimed he was calling to ask about something stupid. I could tell by his tone he was pissed because he didn't know where I was but wouldn't come out and simply ask me and I didn't offer my whereabouts) he started ranting so I hung up. I got home and it was rug swept as usual. I knew I had to take action and it would be loud and clear but I would wait until it happened again. The next time, 2 days later, again a stupid call, that was it, I was putting an end to it that day. That night it blew up and I explained again how I felt (being checked up on) and how I was going to handle it. I told him he had a choice, work with me to a resolution or I just won't answer the phone. Of course he ranted on about how I was trying to control him, that I have no clue about phone etiquette, how I am paranoid and jealous because I think he's checking up on me and then he stormed off mumbling. He hasn't called me since. It's been over a week. So tell me...how do you go from numerous calls daily to none for a week if these calls were so important and you weren't checking up on me. You don't. It's no different than her controlling the radio station, what movies you watch or anything else. She does it because you put up with it.

Bottom line- They know exactly what they are doing, why they are doing it and nothing will change until it has a NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THEM. The negative effect for my H is that I am no longer able to assist him when he really needs it and it will remain this way until he chooses to control himself and stop using the phone as a way to be abusive towards me. 

Good luck.


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

I don't understand how men let these women treat them exactly like in this guy's scenario. You are basically her b*tch and you allow it. 

Yeah, she looks good and modeled and you love her for her.. but c'mon man.. where is the love for _yourself?_ Are you that desperate to let a woman completely own you in a relationship?

We have all dated girls like yours. They are beautiful, eye-candy, and had other good qualities - but guess what? The minute they started to act like your girl.. most of us.. RAN. This problem my friend.. does not get better and this is BEFORE she is officially the wife. This woman will beat you into the ground - she will completely cut you off from being a 'natural' guy.. your friends will be considered as 'pigs'.. she won't believe how their wives allow them to be men. Oh, you just wait.. you WILL be the guy that all of us will feel bad for. And trust people here.. when you STOP caring about her nonsense.. which you eventually will, she will find another guy to hear her out.

This is text book. Your situation is no different. Obviously, she could leave you tomorrow and find another guy a couple hours later, so you better be on your best behavior; and do as she says.

You remind me of Phil in the Hangover during the first one with that woman he was with up until the wedding when he finally told her to stfu. That will be YOU. Say goodbye to your manhood.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I would take a stable 6 with a great personality over a crazy and obsessive 10 any day of the week.


----------



## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...besides leaving her...which would be the rational choice...there are some things you can try.
1. Regular compliments. My own policy is to turn to my wife and tell her she's beautiful every time a hot woman walks by. It kind of works.
2. Acclimation. If she asks whether or not a given woman is attractive, say yes, but add that she is far more attractive. Frankly, check out every woman that walks by, visibly.
3. Boundaries. Refuse most of her behavioral requests. If she fights, refuse to fight and leave the room/house. If she gets physical, call the police. Bail her out the first time, but not the second.

If she leaves you, fine. If she doesn't, it might be ok. And, on the bright side, she'll be unlikely to get steadily worse.

--Argyle


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

SoWhat said:


> Clearly, bringing up her looks was a bad idea.
> My intended point was missed and now I have people telling me not marry her just because she looks good.
> 
> That's not it. I've been with gorgeous women before and didn't propose to any of them.
> ...


Bottom Line:

It's ugly NOW, and it's going to get UGLIER. You say you realize that someday she'll lose her looks! Fair enough. ....how do you think she'll handle THAT? Let me tell you, even WORSE than she's handling her good looks!

Nothing you do will be enough.
Nothing you say will be enough.
Other men screwing her will never be enough.

Your fiancee believes that ALL she has of value to offer the world is her looks, and when they're gone, she'll be worthless. You & I know it's not so, but she doesn't. 

A woman who asks that you never think about, look at, see, ponder, notice 1/2 of the human population is NUTS! Plain and simple!

She was good to you at a bad time in your life. That's nice. But THAT is NO REASON to screw up the rest of your life with this woman.

I hope that you are under NO DELUSION about WHY she has an ex-husband and three ex-serious relationships! Those guys' friends and family wised them up! We're trying to do the same for YOU.

Talking about going to therapy is cheap. Talk is nothing; action is EVERYTHING. If she doesn't make serious progress in the next 4-6 months with individual counseling, then you should walk. And don't get her pregnant by accident.

Just my humble opinion.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Here's a tidbit: marriage won't make her jealousy go away. 

So... yeah.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

" We have all dated girls like yours"

Not me! 

No more comments from SoWhat. That usually means of advice was dismissed. 

Hope not. The guy will spend however long his marriage lasts wishing he had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

^ For real.

He's like, "Hey, I've been with tons of solid 10's and never married any of them [because I am the man], however, the one I'm with; she's also a solid 10 but I allow her to beat me and deprive me on my manhood."

What??:scratchhead:?

My girl has best friends from over 10 years and there jealousy issues just get worse and worse as the years go bye. There husbands are either miserable/alcoholic or have completely checked out emotionally - because they let the solid 10 walk all over them. They'd probably stab the poor guy if he ever tried to walk. She tries to avoid them at all cost but has to do the monthly get together with them. Lol. It's actually sad.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> " We have all dated girls like yours"
> 
> Not me!
> 
> ...


I didn't dismiss the advice. Got extremely busy with work and some of my passions/hobbies and wasn't on the internet for a while. Just logging back onto this site.

Thanks for the posts, everyone.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I posted this on another thread.
> 
> *14 Identifiable Traits of a Female Narcissist.*
> 
> ...


*For Caribbean Man: *

Thanks. I believe her to be BPD, though I know there's some crossover. I have looked hard into BPD treatment/therapies/strategies. 

*To follow-up:*

I got married to her. 
Some of her BPD behavior has lessened, at least with regards to me. I attribute this to some of the boundary-setting strategies I picked up on this site and on BPD-specific sites. 

The jealousy thing still flares up occasionally, though not as much. 

*Family Matters
*
This weekend, her mother suggested we all (wife, mother-in-law, father-in-law) go to the mall and said the girls would go shopping and they'd leave the two men to "on the bench to look at the pretty girls passing by." As you might imagine, my wife decided against shopping that day. 

Same weekend, father-in-law said he thought Actress P was "gorgeous" and wife said "DADDY, mommy is right there!!!" Mother-in-law seemed confused by reaction.

*Mars and Venus and Movie Stars*

Last week, after I suggested we watch a movie I liked as a kid, she said *"No way*, it has Actress J in it....she's gorgeous." That sprung us into a discussion about actors/actresses. 
After I suggested that there was no way that we've never watched a movie where she thought the male lead was handsome, she replied (and I'm being serious) that women do not find actors physically attractive. She said that women only "like" actors and "pretend they're handsome" because they're rich. 


(So a note to anybody facing similar issues: "talking about it" is not a valuable pursuit to a certain point of irrationality. All you can do is set boundaries.)

*Car Talk*

A few weeks ago, wife said that the mileage on my car was higher than it should be, so I must be driving somewhere far away on weeknights [wife and I won't be able to live together until August of this year]. 

*
Summary:*

In summary, the old issue of hyperjealousy remains. It has abated to a degree, however, and her BPD rages have reduced dramatically. 

I'll continue to update as I move forward, if anyone is interested.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> The old issue of hyperjealousy remains. It has abated to a degree, however, and her BPD rages have reduced dramatically.


SoWhat, thanks so much for returning to give us an update. I was wondering how you two were doing. I'm glad to hear that her behavior has improved somewhat over the past six months. 

I suggest that, if you can, you hold off on having children as long as possible so you can get a better idea as to whether your W's improvements will be lasting. I realize that will be hard to do, given that she must be in her early 30's. Moreover, she likely is pushing for them. When we first discussed her BPD-type behaviors two years ago (Jan 2012), you said you were not eager to have children anytime soon but that your then-fiance was wanting them ASAP. 

In any event, SoWhat, congratulations on your marriage and I wish the two of you the very best!


----------



## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

I think something could have happened in her other relationships to make her this way. I have the same problem and it stems from being cheated on and things my husband has said to me. 

If we ever get divorced I'm scared to death this jealousy problem I have will carry over into other relationships. I hope I could trust someone else enough not to be this way.

You need to call her on it and tell her she needs help. If she can't control it and won's seek help you probably should break up because this will be something you will have to live with for as long as your together. Do you think you can live with that?


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Uptown said:


> SoWhat, thanks so much for returning to give us an update. I was wondering how you two were doing. I'm glad to hear that her behavior has improved somewhat over the past six months.
> 
> I suggest that, if you can, you hold off on having children as long as possible so you can get a better idea as to whether your W's improvements will be lasting. I realize that will be hard to do, given that she must be in her early 30's. Moreover, she likely is pushing for them. When we first discussed her BPD-type behaviors two years ago (Jan 2012), you said you were not eager to have children anytime soon but that your then-fiance was wanting them ASAP.
> 
> In any event, SoWhat, congratulations on your marriage and I wish the two of you the very best!


Uptown, I know I speak for a lot of people here when I say: thank you. Your understanding of this disorder, and your way of explaining it, has really helped me and many others. 

Yes, she wants kids soon but I think she realizes that our finances don't allow for it right now.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm really sorry you married her. In that respect you ignored the advice. You walked into this with your eyes wide open. One might make an argument that by doing so you have accepted her this way and have a lot of nerve wanting her to change.

She is a liar as well. Tell her you would like her to take a lie detector test regarding actors. While I do not fantasize about them I cannot say that I have never found one handsome. The because they have money thing is really offensive too. She has a problem with women as well as men.

I would be just as inclined to think she entertains immoral thoughts and is projecting as believe that she is somehow more chaste and moral than the average woman. In fact BPD folks have a greater chance of being unfaithful as they desire admiration and sexism attention more than the average bear to help quiet their worries.

I'm sorry you did this. You are a damn fool. I'm shaking my head. I also feel sorry for you because you locked yourself into a seriously hurtful life. Ask yourself why you would do that. What are your issues? Trust me. She will figure them out and is then against you.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

BTW, unless you get snipped she can get pregnant. And she will.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> I'm really sorry you married her. In that respect you ignored the advice. You walked into this with your eyes wide open. One might make an argument that by doing so you have accepted her this way and have a lot of nerve wanting her to change.
> 
> She is a liar as well. Tell her you would like her to take a lie detector test regarding actors. While I do not fantasize about them I cannot say that I have never found one handsome. The because they have money thing is really offensive too. She has a problem with women as well as men.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your honest opinions.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I really do feel bad for you.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> I really do feel bad for you.


I believe you do. If nothing else, perhaps my story will serve as a cautionary tale for others.

One thing you notice on this site is that people list specific things about their partner that worry them. Members respond helpfully and, in some cases, advise the OP to break off the relationship for their own good. Then, OPs often get extremely defensive about their partners and tell everyone that they just don't understand, etc.

I'm not going to do that. I went into it with eyes wide open, as you said. Anything that happens is purely my responsibility. I appreciate the honest, thoughtful responses from members of this site and consider them to be filled with wisdom. My failure/refusal to heed such sage advice is not a failure to consider the advice - it likely springs from my own issues, which I certainly need to work on. 

Thank you for the care and concern.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> I went into it with eyes wide open, as you said. Anything that happens is purely my responsibility.


SoWhat, none of us on this forum know whether your W has full-blown BPD. She's never been diagnosed as such by a professional. Indeed, we don't even know whether most of her BPD traits (except for the strong irrational jealousy) are at a strong level -- because we've never met the young lady. Hence, nobody is better positioned to answer that question than you. I therefore am hopeful that you made the right judgment call. But, if you didn't, your situation can be corrected in a year or two as long as you don't have children any time soon. So, again, I wish the two of you the very best!


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Keep your boundaries strong. 

Don't tell her that having children is dependent on these issues. You'd be surprised how well people can control themselves when they have a larger goal.

If you find yourself walking on eggshells STOP. Everyone chooses their battles to some extent but if you find that you are afraid to be yourself because of how she might react, BE YOURSELF.

You will reach a good conclusion faster if you don't try to control the situation by being someone you aren't. When people do that it supports the idea that you aren't trustworthy and that she has reason to be jealous or worried.

Give her the authentic you.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Uptown said:


> I suggest that, if you can, you hold off on having children as long as possible so you can get a better idea as to whether your W's improvements will be lasting. I realize that will be hard to do,


I agree with the others here, DO NOT have children with this woman unless she makes a dramatic turn around. These jealousy behaviors are annoying to you, but they will be devastating when directed toward a child.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

It doesn't necessarily get projected onto kids. Most parents don't feel their kids are going to abandon them and replace them with someone better.

The reason not to have children is because the marriage is unstable and could come apart.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> It doesn't necessarily get projected onto kids. Most parents don't feel their kids are going to abandon them and replace them with someone better.


It's not just about fear of replacement though. It's about insecurity, which is the root cause of jealousy. I remember woman on this forum who was so insecure that she said she got very upset and cried after her husband paid their daughter a compliment. All he said was that she had "long legs", and that was enough to throw her into crisis.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

That kind of behavior is rare even amongst BPDers.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

As I said, I'll keep this updated and honest. I'd like this moved to the "private members forum" if possible, though. Is there an official channel for me to place that request through?

Yesterday, our conversation fell on the movie American Pie. Wife said "I bet your parents let you watch that trash when it came out." 

I said "Yeah, I watched that with my older sister when it came out." 

Wife said: "That movie is pure evil. It has that girl naked and dancing." 

I said: "Evil? Do you really believe that?" 

She said: "Yes, I do. Don't you? It made 14 year old boys go home and jerk off!!"

I said: "14 year old boys were going to jerk off no matter what...they're no less likely to do so if they fail to see a nude woman." 

She said: "You only say that because of your dirty mind! There are lots of very spiritual 14 year olds who don't! A movie like that only causes more temptation!"

It's fascinating. She grew up with just sisters and with no close male friends. She has framed her father as the perfect man. He's a great guy, no question, but he's not the asexual creature she imagines him to be. I could not bring myself to elaborate that, as a 14 year old, just about ANYTHING did the trick.

The "spirituality" stuff is interesting. She's very religious but the only religious "rules" she ever emphasizes are ones about sexuality. That is, she thinks it's "evil" for men to masturbate but she has never described anything else that way. She does not lecture people about giving to the poor, about turning the other cheek, etc.; but she often lectures men she doesn't know very well about how porn destroys lives. 

I'm not doubting her religious commitment - I very much admire her spirituality and wish I possessed equal faith - but it's interesting to see her emphasis and how it reflects directly on her insecurity .


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I was afraid you had married her since you just disappeared. You are in for a tough life. Problems like hers don't just go away. And if you ever have a daughter, it's very likely she will be extremely jealous of her too. Be prepared.


----------



## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

This is my life, my partner views American pie as porn. If you don't have kids then run as fast as you can, I'm talking from experience your life will be an absolute living hell my friend


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> I really do feel bad for you.


You do remember that part about her playing the "hot girl" in some music vids, right?


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Forest said:


> You do remember that part about her playing the "hot girl" in some music vids, right?



Oh, goodness. 
I was explaining the fact that her personal insecurity about physical appearance is in stark contrast to the perception of her physical appearance that most people have. 

I was NOT saying "She may be crazy, but at least people think she's hot!"

I probably would not have been as hopeful/optimistic about the chances of her coming to grips with her insecurities if she wasn't as attractive - true. I think most people are guilty of this to some extent; we overlook/excuse things in potential mates of things we might not otherwise based on our attraction. It's sad and something that we should work to overcome. I was NOT however saying..."COOL! At least she's hot!" Pity me for whatever but do it with a little interpretational charity here, please. 

Ricky15100: It's not just American Pie. Victoria's Secret, the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition, etc., are all softcore porn to her. I'd like to get to a point where I can talk rationally about this stuff with her and maybe one day I'll be able to. Learning more BPD strategies every day.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

SoWhat said:


> That is, she thinks it's "evil" for men to masturbate but she has never described anything else that way.


Does she also think it's evil for women to masturbate?

SoWhat, you often describe your spouse's behavior as BPD, but until she's diagnosed, I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. Frankly, some of her behavior simply sounds like someone who is extremely insecure and jealous, not necessarily BPD.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Does she also think it's evil for women to masturbate?
> 
> SoWhat, you often describe your spouse's behavior as BPD, but until she's diagnosed, I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. Frankly, some of her behavior simply sounds like someone who is extremely insecure and jealous, not necessarily BPD.



Thanks. You're right about that. 
Her other BPD-symptoms are the anger, intense fear of abandonment, extreme black/white thinking, chronic emptiness, and serious anxiety. 

I'm not a psych and shouldn't pretend to be one - this is just my lay diagnosis. Maybe it's a coping mechanism for me to place her "issues" in some understandable context. Doctor, know thyself - I suppose.

She thinks female masturbation is okay as it is not about visuals. I'm not sure exactly why that would work that way in her head, but I've never pushed the issue. She thinks it's okay for me to masturbate if I'm doing it to pictures of her/memories of her, but that it wasn't ever okay before we met. 

I'm taking a 1 week internet vacation - I'll be back to update thread. Again, if anyone can move this to the Private Members forum, I'd be really appreciative.


----------



## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

*Re: Re: Extreme Jealousy*



SoWhat said:


> Oh, goodness.
> I was explaining the fact that her personal insecurity about physical appearance is in stark contrast to the perception of her physical appearance that most people have.
> 
> I was NOT saying "She may be crazy, but at least people think she's hot!"
> ...


My partner is knockout good looking so much so that I sometimes feel intimidated when we go out because of all the male attention she gets, and I can tell you this, no amount of reassurance works with her. The worst thing is the double standards she has no problem watching movies with guys baring their chests because it's different for women apparently. 

You are in a position where you can get out of this virtually unscathed, because have no doubt when you have kids with her, her behavior is going to get worse.

She cried once because I watched a commercial for a sofa that happened to be using an attractive woman to sell it, and I didn't look away.

I have the excuse that I didn't know what was going on and thought I could help her if I only showed her that I loved her , unfortunately it was like pouring water into a bottomless pit, don't get to the point 5 years down the line wishing you'd taken these posters advice to get out and stay out


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Guys, as counterintuitive as it is it is often the most attractive women (by conventional standards) that are the most insecure and self conscious. This is because everyone teaches them that they have no other value and as such are easily threatened and worried that if their looks fade even a little they become worthless. Even on this site I can't count how many guys I've seen rattle off that they can't lose their wife because she's so hot the can't get that again, and mention nothing else about her. Like the only reason they want her is because she's hot. Small wonder such women are insecure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

SoWhat said:


> Thanks. You're right about that.
> Her other BPD-symptoms are the anger, intense fear of abandonment, extreme black/white thinking, chronic emptiness, and serious anxiety.


OK, yes, that does sounds much more like BPD. One weird thing about BPD is that it often gets worse with age, not better. You have a challenging future ahead of you. 




> I'm taking a 1 week internet vacation


OK, I'm officially jealous myself...


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What secrets lie in family of hers I wonder. 

Any sexual abuse in her background?

If you think her good looks are helpful you are wrong. There are always better looking women that she knows you find attractive. It would be easier for you to kill all of them than it would be to make her feel pretty enough.

Are either of her parents trustworthy? How are her sisters in this regard? 

You know, the problem is we can help you figure out what went wrong in her childhood but ask that will do is make you feel even more responsible for her. The more you know the more you will be abandoning the real her and you know that's going to go over really well.

Come over here. I need to shake you by the shoulders while asking you why over and over again.

Divorce. 

Can you discuss the possibility with your parents and see what they say? If they know nothing about attachment disorders you might want to go armed with some printed material to share with them. Otherwise you might just get told you married her knowing this and you have to live with it.

And you can... You will just have to learn to do what you want regardless and to call with the fallout. You will have to learn not to be a codependent person. Watch what you want. Don't put up with the bull. Insist on therapy but don't expect it to work if she doesn't but into it. And be clear that you will not accept abuse of any sort. 

Then the problem of knowing when an issue is really because of her versus maybe you were out of line crops up. What is reasonable behavior? How much is something allowed to bother her before you doing it becomes a form of abuse on your part?

Why???? Why did you do this?????


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

It wasn't that you didn't look away Ricky. It is that you bought the sofa and were visibly disappointed the woman from the commercial was not included!


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

*Re: Re: Extreme Jealousy*

.


----------



## FeelingHopelessRightNow (Jun 5, 2014)

Bro I feel for you. I am in the same bloody situation. I don't know what wires are crossed up there that makes them think of really absurd stuff made out of thin air.

I commented about some celebrity's house that looks nice which I saw online (I like interior design) and my husband says I am checking out the celebrity. Mind you it's will smith and that popular philipino boxer which I can't even spell his name. Geez. Really. But of course, how did I even know of that boxer? I am as honest as a toddler. I do know his name, seriously can't pick him out from a line up if I saw him, I don't know from where I've heard of him - I swear. Maybe from online. I don't watch boxing in which my husband then implies I do watch boxing to check out other men. Gosh. The last time I glanced at boxing was when I was a child while my father was watching boxing and now I am middle aged woman.

I walk up an escalator and there's this poster of some 'most eligible bachelors' list to promo a magazine (which I swear I never saw that ad) and he says I was checking it out. I seriously must look down only. Hope I don't hit a wall or on coming traffic. Crazy nuts right?

He says I smiled at some random guy who was sitting in front of us in a restaurant. Wtf #[email protected])$*%. Swear that I wasn't smiling at any stupid guy.
Sure, common sense would prompt me to hit on other guys while I am out with my husband. 

I introduced my sister to my ex-colleague. It was kinda like a blind date thing cause I thought both of them may hit it off because they were both kinda dorky. My sister asked about his physical appearance naturally amongst other things since she has never met him. I said he was taller than my husband and that was 5 years back (I am a full time mom since) and we are still arguing about the damn dork who means nothing to me. Me comparing his height really flipped him. Mind you my husband isn't short so I felt no issue or insecurity there to use him as some measuring height guide. Of course his reaction is 'how could I do such a thing? Compare his hight? (Mind you I did that pure for description purposes for my sister because I am not great at guessing height by metric). For that I was forced to say sorry and to apologize for comparing him with other men.

Guess what? I tell him these are crazy stuff and he tell me that if he ever told anyone else about what I've did to him, they would side with him. That I have been unfair to him. How can a wife do that to her husband. My reply: Do what?

I didn't date, kiss, have sex, have an affair or anything remotely close to being with another guy even by metric distance and I really get quite a bit of **** for it. Seriously I should be the poster child and win awards for being the most loyal wife that ever lived.

Sorry I am hijacking this. Back to you.
I wish you the best. I know how it is to love some one so much that you put up with it and just defend yourself whenever you can. It feels like **** being accused when you are innocent right? Hi-5.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

FeelingHopelessRightNow said:


> Bro I feel for you. I am in the same bloody situation. I don't know what wires are crossed up there that makes them think of really absurd stuff made out of thin air.
> 
> I commented about some celebrity's house that looks nice which I saw online (I like interior design) and my husband says I am checking out the celebrity. Mind you it's will smith and that popular philipino boxer which I can't even spell his name. Geez. Really. But of course, how did I even know of that boxer? I am as honest as a toddler. I do know his name, seriously can't pick him out from a line up if I saw him, I don't know from where I've heard of him - I swear. Maybe from online. I don't watch boxing in which my husband then implies I do watch boxing to check out other men. Gosh. The last time I glanced at boxing was when I was a child while my father was watching boxing and now I am middle aged woman.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's little things like that which seems so crazy to everyone except the hyperjealous person. 

Nothing really to report from my front except that I feel better with limited internet usage for the past weekish. We've had a minor fight in that time period, but it was the sort of fight I imagine "normal" married couples have and she kept her cool pretty well. I do think she recognizes her anger problem as a problem at this point and is working on it - though by herself. 



A convo with my brother-in-law regarding their religion (well, his ex-religion; he married my wife's sister as a true believer but since then lost the faith) also clued me in to that as an aggravating factor. Their denomination is apparently obsessed with porn and masturbation and a significant amount of church instruction is devoted to preaching about the ills of self-pleasure. 

Some online research seemed to confirm his statements. Almost _everything _is "porn" to many of that belief set. There's no such thing as artistic or tasteful nudity for this contingent. 

I grew up Catholic, which is ostensibly similar in belief on the issue, but all the priests and religion teachers I knew made jokes about the topic. I wonder how differently I'd view things if it was constantly stressed to me that my natural impulses are wrong.


----------



## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Now you're making excuses for her behaviour and minimising, this is a dangerous road


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

ricky15100 said:


> Now you're making excuses for her behaviour and minimising, this is a dangerous road


I see why it looks like that. 
To me, there's a difference between looking for explanations and making justifications. 

That is, saying "People from lower socio-economic status groups are more likely to become murderers" is not the same as saying "It's more acceptable to murder if you come from a lower socio-economic status group."

Similarly, I think "People from Religion X are more likely to have misguided views on human sexuality" is different from "It's more acceptable to have misguided views on human sexuality if you're from Religion X."

Point Blank: my wife is a very intelligent person and should have the ability to look at human wants and needs more clearly, regardless of upbringing.


----------



## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Does it make a difference whether or not it's a justification or an explanation, ask yourself this, are you putting her views and feelings above your own purely because you can "understand" her point of view?


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

ricky15100 said:


> Does it make a difference whether or not it's a justification or an explanation, ask yourself this, are you putting her views and feelings above your own purely because you can "understand" her point of view?


I don't think I'm putting her views/feelings above mine. 
I'm not even saying I could understand her point-of-view, I'm wondering whether or not my views would be significantly different with a similar upbringing. 

I have no idea. I've always prided myself on my ability to question everything, so I'd like to think I'd be resistant to certain strains of insanity. 

I do appreciate the concern and I think you're right that there's a definite danger in always attempting to "understand" another's POV to the diminution of your own POV - especially when that person refuses to understand _your _POV.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

The religious angle definitely didn't help her. It is keeping her in a state of constant fear. Can you discuss that with her a bit? If she were to take a break from it she would see that it is a trigger for her issues and is making them worse instead of better.

Also if the pastor is harping on porn all the time maybe he has a problem with it. There are tons of things to use for sermon fodder. If the church has a fixation on M and porn maybe there is something unhealthy going on.

There have to be other decent churches who have a more rounded view of the world. Would she consider trying to find another congregation?


----------



## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

I get that you want to understand why she is the way she is, because in a normal relationship this is the key to solving problems and in my opinion this is what your trying to do, "fix" the issues. You have to realise that you can't fix somebody else's issues, I am talking from experience when I say I've tried everything to fix her issues, and even though at times she seems to have these lucid realisations, as soon as the moments passed they are forgotten.

Can I ask a couple of questions. 

1. What are the consequences of her actions? do you enforce strict boundaries.

2. What incentives does she have to change her behavior? 

3. How long are you prepared to work on this situation.


----------



## areyouserious? (Jun 22, 2014)

Jealousy is poison in a relationship when it goes to extremes. It's one thing if you've ever given her reason to be jealous (i.e.; cheating, or making her feel as though she is insignificant in comparison to others) but to be jealous over simply stating someone is attractive is rather silly. It sounds like she has some major insecurities. This doesn't necessarily make her a horrible person .... it just means that she has some unresolved issues with herself that she hasn't come to terms with and until she does, she will not be able to have a healthy relationship with anyone - including herself. 
The thing is, until she can accept herself and be happy with who she is, she will never be truly comfortable with you. She will forever doubt no matter what you do or say in an attempt to make her feel better. In other words - it's not up to you to change her. She has to work on herself, and appreciate who she is as a woman. 
It's human nature to notice another attractive person. There's nothing wrong with that, so long as you don't actively seek out some kind of external affair with that person. It sounds like that's what she's afraid of. You mention actress G is attractive, she immediately begins to compare herself to that person. The questions "what does she have that I don't" flood her mind and she become insecure. That isn't your fault... that's her own self-depreciation. 
I think it is very important for you to decide whether or not you are willing to accept this trait in your fiance. Can you handle her jealousy? Do you want to have to handle it on a daily basis? You love her and want to spend the rest of your life with her... but will it be enough for her? Do you want to become a prisoner in your marriage, banned from all thought and feelings? Also ask yourself honestly ---- have you ever given her reason to feel that she cannot trust you? If the answer is no, then you need to ask yourself if you are willing to move forward knowing that she will forever question your intentions? Marriage is a sacred communion between two people but both parties involved must enter it being completely honest with one another and themselves. If you are finding yourself doubting, then you need to take a step back and rethink your position because truthfully - you won't be doing either of you any good if you move forward at this point until these question have been resolved.


----------



## Stars54 (Jul 23, 2013)

I'm a female who used to be a fairly jealous person, though not to the degree to which you are describing. I had a lot of insecurities when I was a teenager/in college but as an adult I think I eventually grew out of it - however that didn't happen magically. I was conscious of the fact that I had jealous feelings, and I hated feeling that way. I did not want to feel jealous or envious, so I consciously worked on myself, did a lot of soul searching, and growing up. I guess my advice would be, if you want to save this relationship, to provide patience and encouragement for your fiance to grow individually and encourage her to learn more about herself. Encourage her to explore her feelings and dig deeper to uncover the roots of those feelings. If she can grow to love herself and gain security as an individual, she should be able to be more confident within the relationship. It's definitely not about you at all, it's all about her and how she feels. No amount of reassurance on your part can change the way she feels about herself inside. If you want the relationship to work, I would recommend that you try to encourage and support her as she grows as an individual. I'm sure she doesn't want to be feeling the way she's feeling, but it's still not right for her to project that type of frustration onto you.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Things recently took a turn to the bizarre. I'm going to PM a mod to request that this thing be taken to the private forum before explaining.


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

SoWhat said:


> I've always prided myself on my ability to question everything,



You seem to be incapable of seeing the forest because the trees are in the way.

Perhaps you should question yourself. Why stay with someone like this? Why allow someone to treat you like this? Why lower yourself to be treated like this? Why subject yourself to this kind of abuse and stress?



SoWhat said:


> I'd like to think I'd be resistant to certain strains of insanity.


But you're not. You keep on running the same circle expecting a change.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

SoWhat said:


> Things recently took a turn to the bizarre. I'm going to PM a mod to request that this thing be taken to the private forum before explaining.


oh boy!!


----------



## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

That is completely irrational in her part. Certainly a big red flag I think.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What's up? 

before even knowing what's going on I'd really like to encourage you to realize that it isn't your job to fix her or save her. Even more than that, it would be arrogant to think you were capable.

all of us have some emotional baggage and we all have our own. But when it comes to people with serious problems a structured program with professionals is most likely to provide the best chance of improvement. Of course the love of family helps. But in cases like this the love of family tends to shelter and cuddle and allow the person to remain where they are. 

I hope you're okay. I hope she's OK.


----------



## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks. I'll explain if this gets moved. I PM'd an administrator about it.

I'm okay. Very weirded out. Big big red flag.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Is the big red flag named Clifford? ;-)


----------

