# So I went to my husbands church...



## kittykatz

He plays music there during the worship service. He's been going for a couple of years and I've never been with him up until recently. From what he had told me about the church, it just seemed a little too out there for my personal taste, so I was never really interested in going there. 

It's a small, non denominational church with only about maybe 40 members, and I had always grown up going to very traditional baptist churches so it's just very different from what I'm used to. However, I decided to give it a shot a couple of months ago and all of the people there are actually very welcoming and friendly. The preacher and his wife are especially welcoming and they really do a great job of making new members feel like they're right at home. They even decided to throw a baby shower for my husband and I next month, which I thought was really nice of them. 

The thing about this church that makes them different is that they are very laid back and free spirited. During the music part of the service, a lot of people will dance, clap, lift their hands in the air, etc… Personally, this isn't my thing. I'm a very reserved, quiet person so I wouldn't normally be comfortable with doing things like that. I wasn’t really bothered by the fact that other people were doing it though. I figured everyone has their own way of worshiping so I tried not to judge. 

Well, last Sunday during worship, a random church member walked up and got on the microphone. This is something else that's very unique about this church. They pretty much let anyone come up and speak. They believe that if one of the church members feels compelled to share something with the rest of the church, they don't believe in inhibiting them. So this lady gets up there while the band is playing, and basically shouts out that she feels some people there are worshipping “half heartedly” or something along those lines and that everybody needs to be giving it their all and everyone needs to be “on fire”! Pretty much what I got from her message was that she was trying to get the more reserved people in the audience, such as myself, to get up and show more enthusiasm. I also happened to bring my mom with me on this particular Sunday, and she is a lot like myself. She's pretty reserved so she doesn't get into the whole dancing/clapping thing. 

It made me feel very uncomfortable when this lady was saying all of this, because I felt like she was speaking to me and my mom felt the same way. Now don't get me wrong, if someday I feel the need to dance and put my hands in the air, I will. But I'm not going to do it just because I feel like someone else wants me to…. And I don't think God would want me to do it just because someone tells me to. I think he wants us to do it only if we feel it in our hearts. I think it's very judgemental to assume that just because someone isn't outwardly expressing themselves, that means that they're not worshiping properly. Some people just don't express their emotions as freely as others. There's no way that you can know what that person feels in their heart. I may not sing out loud or clap my hands, but I'm singing in my heart and I'm listening to the words in the song. I don't judge people that do choose to be more expressive during worship, so I don't feel I should be judged for my lack of expression. 

What do you think? Would you have been uncomfortable? I want to give this church a chance, I just think they need to have a little more structure. Like for one, not letting just anybody and everybody get on the microphone. You take a big risk by doing this because you don't know what this person is going to say or if it's going to run off some of your members. I told my husband that this bothered me and he pretty much said just don't worry about it because if that’s what the lady’s intentions were, then she is obviously just too concerned about other people. I agree but it's kind of hard to not worry about it when you're in the moment and you feel like you're being put on the spot or that someone is trying to make you feel less than them just because you worship differently. I guess I'm just looking for suggestions as to how I can not let stuff like this bother me as much.


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## SecondTime'Round

I wouldn't want to go to a church like that. Don't get me wrong, I love progressive churches, worship music, etc. and I go to a huge church with a great band, multi-media stuff, etc. Some folks raise their hands, etc. I don't like small churches like that, and certainly not one where people can just get on the microphone whenever they want. In fact, I've actually walked out of a church service at a small (very small) church I was visiting when one of the members started speaking in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:33 - For God is not a God of disorder but of peace--as in all the congregations of the Lord's people.


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## kokonatsu

intheory said:


> Therefore, my brothers and sisters, *be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues*. But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
> 1 Cor 14: 39,40


I can totally understand where you're coming from. Though I don't necessarily agree with you. 

I grew up Presbyterian, went to a pentacostal church in high school and a bit after college, now attend a vineyard church. 

They let people come up and use the microphone in my church -- and lots of the time it's really great messages/visions from the Spirit used to minister to either a specific person in the church, or the whole congregation. 

Some people in my church raise their hands, some people stay seated through the whole service. Some people pray in tongues, but never in a way that is intrusive to another person. 

If it bothers you, then don't go to that church! isn't that why there are so many different denominations, because we often can't agree on one way to do something? Sometimes I don't feel like raising my hands to worship, so I don't. I don't let other's doing so bother me though. Sometimes I get really excited and even dance! I try not to bother anyone around me though. I'd still prefer going to a church where both of these actions -- being still and being excited -- are okay, and that's why I prefer to go to the vineyard. 

So those things -- speaking in tongues and being "free in the spirit" to worship are not wrong, so please don't look down on them. They can be done in an orderly fashion, and you can still not agree with/like it. But just because you are uncomfortable doesn't mean it's not orderly. I don't think that scripture was telling us all to be Type A!


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## kittykatz

My husband has said before that he would consider switching churches but that he at least wanted me to try his church first. I thought this was reasonable so I tried it and up until this last Sunday I've always felt pretty comfortable there. Most of the people there are really nice. I like the preacher and his wife, I just don't totally agree with the way they do things. I get that they don't want to hold anyone back but church is just like anything else. You have to have at least some structure or you're just going to scare people off. 

My husband mainly just stays there for the music. He likes playing in the band, but hes isn't always too fond of the sermons and sometimes he doesn't care too much for some of the guest speakers that come there. He is pretty reserved like myself so he doesn't get into a lot of that stuff. 

One particular incident he told me about was when they had a guest speaker come to the church, who was quite abrasive. He said the guy started going around, trying to "anoint" people. By this, I mean he would place his hand on someone's forehead and then they would fall back. This guy actually came up to my husband, put his hand on his forehead, and physically kept trying to FORCE my husband to fall back. My husband obviously wasn't feeling it and he wasn't about to fall just because the guy wanted him to, so he eventually gave up and left my husband alone. This made quite a few people uncomfortable and the preacher actually talked to the guy afterward and let him know that he was going to have to take it down a notch. Supposedly he got offended by this and hasn't returned. My husband said there was one person in particular who had never been to the church before, and he never came back after that. I don't blame him! You don't want to go to church if you feel like you have to sit there and worry that you're going to be harassed. I don't have a problem with what the guy was doing, I just have a problem with trying to force someone into participating when they clearly are uncomfortable. I believe a person should only participate in that type of thing because THEY want to. It means nothing to God if you're just going to church to put on a show for everyone else. All He cares about is what's in your heart. If you feel, in your heart, the urge to get up and dance or clap or whatever, then by all means do so. But don't judge others or accuse them of worshipping half heartedly just because they don't do those things. 

Unless things change, I honestly don't see myself going to this church for very long. I might go occasionally but I don't see myself making it an every Sunday morning type of thing. So like I said, my husband said he would consider switching churches if I at least gave his church a chance, and I did.... But when I told him how uncomfortable I was last Sunday he just kind of acted like it wasn't a big deal and to not worry about it. All I can say is if he doesn't want to switch churches, he shouldn't be upset when I don't come every Sunday.


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## Fozzy

I grew up pentecostal, but I'm currently non-denominational. This has always bothered me about small churches. Everyone's always up in everyone else's business.

I'm currently going to a HUGE church, but they encourage meeting in small groups for socialization etc. Everybody treats everybody else like their best friend, and I've yet to see anyone shamed about how they choose to worship. 

Keep shopping around--there's a good fit for you out there somewhere.


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## kokonatsu

kittykatz said:


> One particular incident he told me about was when they had a guest speaker come to the church, who was quite abrasive. He said the guy started going around, trying to "anoint" people. By this, I mean he would place his hand on someone's forehead and then they would fall back. This guy actually came up to my husband, put his hand on his forehead, and physically kept trying to FORCE my husband to fall back. My husband obviously wasn't feeling it and he wasn't about to fall just because the guy wanted him to, so he eventually gave up and left my husband alone. This made quite a few people uncomfortable and the preacher actually talked to the guy afterward and let him know that he was going to have to take it down a notch. Supposedly he got offended by this and hasn't returned. My husband said there was one person in particular who had never been to the church before, and he never came back after that. I don't blame him! You don't want to go to church if you feel like you have to sit there and worry that you're going to be harassed. I don't have a problem with what the guy was doing, I just have a problem with trying to force someone into participating when they clearly are uncomfortable. I believe a person should only participate in that type of thing because THEY want to. It means nothing to God if you're just going to church to put on a show for everyone else. All He cares about is what's in your heart. If you feel, in your heart, the urge to get up and dance or clap or whatever, then by all means do so. But don't judge others or accuse them of worshipping half heartedly just because they don't do those things.
> 
> Unless things change, I honestly don't see myself going to this church for very long. I might go occasionally but I don't see myself making it an every Sunday morning type of thing. So like I said, my husband said he would consider switching churches if I at least gave his church a chance, and I did.... But when I told him how uncomfortable I was last Sunday he just kind of acted like it wasn't a big deal and to not worry about it. All I can say is if he doesn't want to switch churches, he shouldn't be upset when I don't come every Sunday.



I have been in exactly those shoes before.. there was a long line of people the preacher was praying for before me, everyone had fallen down, and the preacher pushed on my forehead, but I braced myself so I wouldn't fall down. She eventually left me alone, and on to the next sucker. 

I haven't been back to that church.. there was some other weird stuff going on too. 

My point was just that you can't discount prophecy and speaking in tongues because it's done weird in one church. 

At any rate, would you feel comfortable going to another church you're more comfortable in on your own? Or would you just not go to church?


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## Yeswecan

The church is far from unique. I see it here where I live. My W grew up in a non-denominational church. The church is exactly like your H. I grew up Episcopalian. Very reserved. Three Hymns. Sermon. I'm out.



> Well, last Sunday during worship, a random church member walked up and got on the microphone. This is something else that's very unique about this church. They pretty much let anyone come up and speak. They believe that if one of the church members feels compelled to share something with the rest of the church, they don't believe in inhibiting them. So this lady gets up there while the band is playing, and basically shouts out that she feels some people there are worshipping “half heartedly” or something along those lines and that everybody needs to be giving it their all and everyone needs to be “on fire”! Pretty much what I got from her message was that she was trying to get the more reserved people in the audience, such as myself, to get up and show more enthusiasm. I also happened to bring my mom with me on this particular Sunday, and she is a lot like myself. She's pretty reserved so she doesn't get into the whole dancing/clapping thing.


For this woman it is none of her business how anyone would like to worship. I stand quietly. My W might raise her hand sometimes. She does not care for the dancing around and such. Do not let the few "holy rollers" dictate how you should worship or worship at all. For me, I go for the sermon. That is it. I get very little from the praise and worship portion. Does nothing for me. A good message that pertains to our lives today is what keeps me going. By and large, all in the church we attend are genuinely good people. None I can say are very judgmental of anything.


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## mupostori

2 Chronicles 1-15 (What would these guys have done to you ,let's say you would have said I'm just going to seat here and worship in my heart)

I'm not disputing your type of worship at all, my question is how will we know ,we are in one accord if you are just sitting there quietly (we would think you are just checking us out).If you want to do silent worship in the assembly at least get on your knees , if you have a problem with worshiping on your knees except a medical one then you have a real problem with worship .

I'm sounding harsh I know , but I suggest you find out from the scriptures what worship is.

Church is not a place of entertainment but engagement . David says I will give you thanks in the great assembly,among the throngs I will praise you. The people of old went to the house of God to praise and to worship God that is why David was very glad.

As for pastor's who push people they are immature yet to understand that the power of God is not a human force.


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## happy as a clam

I would not be comfortable there at all either. I can't stand when someone gets in my face or in my space. Our culture is not a touchy-feely one.

Lots of churches have great music ministries if that's what your husband likes. The two of you should keep looking around for a fit for BOTH of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kittykatz

Mupostori- My question is why are people even worrying about what others are doing during worship? Aren't you supposed to be there for God? I know when I'm worshiping, I'm not looking around the room to see what everyone else is doing or looking for someone to judge. My focus is on God, which is where it should be. Sure, I notice when people dance, clap, etc…. I mean it's hard not to. And even though I don’t personally get into that kind of thing, I still would never get up in front of everyone and try to make that person feel like they should be ashamed for it. This woman may have genuinely thought that she was doing a good thing but in fact, my mom and I both thought that we actually felt a bit disconnected to the music than we did before she got up there and opened her mouth. We were actually enjoying the music until she got up there. After that, the focus was no longer on the music, it was all on her and how uncomfortable she was making us feel. In other words, I think she needed to just mind her own business. 

I don't believe I have a problem with worship at all. God made us all different and gave us all different personalities. Some people are more outgoing and animated, some are more modest and keep their emotions to themselves. I am one of those people that tend to keep my emotions to myself. It's not just in church, I'm like that when it comes to everything. Sometimes during the music, if it's a song I really can relate to, I will even get emotional and I find myself trying to hold back tears. So no one can tell me that my way of worshipping is less than theirs just because Im not extremely animated about it like they are. And furthermore, it's no one's place to tell me that. That's up to God to judge.


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## kittykatz

happy as a clam said:


> I would not be comfortable there at all either. I can't stand when someone gets in my face or in my space. Our culture is not a touchy-feely one.
> 
> Lots of churches have great music ministries if that's what your husband likes. The two of you should keep looking around for a fit for BOTH of you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well I hate to ask my husband to leave his church because he's been going there for 3 years and he's gotten attached to people there. He says they are like family. However, I don't want to go to a different church without him because I think it's beneficial for us, as a married couple, to go to church together. 

So I told him that I don't want to ask him to leave but that I didn't see his church as somewhere that I'm going to be able to fully commit too either. So I told him I'd just go every now and then like maybe once a month. He asked me why and I told him because I had a bad experience last Sunday. I'm not going to fully commit to any church that judges me or tries to distract me from the reason that I'm going there. That's exactly what happened last Sunday. I went from focusing on the music to focusing on this judgmental lady trying to single people out for the way that they worship. That's not what church is supposed to be about. 

My husband then accused me of being “too sensitive”. I don't believe I am being too sensitive. I was told by a church member that people who don't outwardly show their emotions during worship, such as myself, are worshipping half heartedly. That's not something I take lightly because I consider that to be a pretty personal thing. My husband says that this lady might not even be there next Sunday, and that's true, she might not be. Frankly, I don't care if she is or isn't. In my eyes, she not only made herself look bad, but she made the church look bad as a whole. Anyone that gets up front and gets on that microphone is representing the church. That's why I don't agree with the preacher and his wife letting people do that. And actually, the preachers wife even insinuated that she agreed with what this lady said. After the lady sat back down, the preachers wife said something about how people don't need to come and just “sit there”. But then when my mom confronted the preachers wife about all of this after the service and expressed that she felt uncomfortable, she was acting completely different and saying “oh no I totally understand! Some people are just more reserved than others”. 

So the whole thing kind of changed my opinion of the preachers wife as well, but apparently my husband doesn't think this is a good enough reason to not go every Sunday and thinks I'm just too sensitive. I think he just doesn't understand because he was up there playing music and wasn't sitting out in the audience. He wasn't the one feeling like he was being singled out in front of everyone.


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## michzz

I was raised Catholic. it hasn't been the same since they switched the service from Latin to English when I was a kid. 

Seriously though, in my adulthood i've rarely gone to any church, but the times that I have, the Methodists and Lutherans seemed more reserved and familiar to me.

I went to a Pentacostal church once where they spoke in tongues and that was just too much for me.

One thing I am glad of though, you can definitely find one you want to attend, it's a free country.

A lot of places in the world you go to a particular place or they kill you.


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## Yeswecan

mupostori said:


> 2 Chronicles 1-15 (What would these guys have done to you ,let's say you would have said I'm just going to seat here and worship in my heart)
> 
> I'm not disputing your type of worship at all, my question is how will we know ,we are in one accord*(what business is it of yours what accord I'm in?) * if you are just sitting there quietly (we would think you are just checking us out).If you want to do silent worship in the assembly at least get on your knees*(Once again dictating how someone should worship. It is a personal thing. None of your business) * , if you have a problem with worshiping on your knees except a medical one then you have a real problem with worship . *Problem with your type of worship. *
> 
> I'm sounding harsh I know , but I suggest you find out from the scriptures what worship is. *You are sounding judgmental.*
> 
> Church is not a place of entertainment but engagement. *No one said it was.* David says I will give you thanks in the great assembly,among the throngs I will praise you. The people of old went to the house of God to praise and to worship God that is why David was very glad. *Glad David was glad. *
> 
> As for pastor's who push people they are immature yet to understand that the power of God is not a human force.


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## Yeswecan

kittykatz said:


> Mupostori- My question is why are people even worrying about what others are doing during worship? Aren't you supposed to be there for God? I know when I'm worshiping, I'm not looking around the room to see what everyone else is doing or looking for someone to judge. My focus is on God, which is where it should be. Sure, I notice when people dance, clap, etc…. I mean it's hard not to. And even though I don’t personally get into that kind of thing, I still would never get up in front of everyone and try to make that person feel like they should be ashamed for it. This woman may have genuinely thought that she was doing a good thing but in fact, my mom and I both thought that we actually felt a bit disconnected to the music than we did before she got up there and opened her mouth. We were actually enjoying the music until she got up there. After that, the focus was no longer on the music, it was all on her and how uncomfortable she was making us feel. In other words, I think she needed to just mind her own business.
> 
> I don't believe I have a problem with worship at all. God made us all different and gave us all different personalities. Some people are more outgoing and animated, some are more modest and keep their emotions to themselves. I am one of those people that tend to keep my emotions to myself. It's not just in church, I'm like that when it comes to everything. Sometimes during the music, if it's a song I really can relate to, I will even get emotional and I find myself trying to hold back tears. So no one can tell me that my way of worshipping is less than theirs just because Im not extremely animated about it like they are. And furthermore, it's no one's place to tell me that. That's up to God to judge.


Worshiping is * personal* and *relationship with God*. Period. It has very little to do with the pastor, his wife or congregation. Again, the relationship with God/Jesus is a personal thing. For those that want to display the relationship then do so. For those that prefer quiet reflection then do so. The important thing is you are attending church and attempting to have a personal relationship with the Lord.


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## mupostori

There is a lot that can said about worship but let me try to let you see one of the reasons why I am on my knees to worship 

Jesus says let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.Hebrews 12:22 says But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly. In Heaven the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne.There is a pathway to the secret place.There is a way to behave in the presence of God .

KittyKatz I admit you paused a difficult question.Why are people even worrying about what others are doing during worship?

And He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, "So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour? 41"Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." 

Probably Jesus wanted to watch what he was doing so that they could copy.

It feels weird to really go for it when the person next you is quiet.You like oh my God are they listening to my prayers .

Now what that women said was not wise ,Is she God to know who is truly worshiping and who is not.This not the kind of statement you make when you are around new members or visitors. Spiritual gifts are given to the benefit the church now what benefit is it if you speak words that make people leave the church.

As for being in one accord I have herd something to the effect that it affects the flow of the spirit.In the upper room whilst they were waiting for the holy spirit they were together praying in one accord.


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## mupostori

A relationship with God is not worship. True Worshiping is worshiping when you have a relationship with God and you mean the words you say in worship. 

Give me a definition of what worship is from the scriptures .


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## ConanHub

Sounds pretty dippy. I wouldn't stay. Brings back memories. I would be at the alter praying and some dipwads would come over and try to anoint me and make something supernatural happen.

I told them to get lost. I was praying to God and if he wanted to do something to me or give me something HE didn't need them to help Him.

I hate it when someone tells me to raise my hands or worship louder or whatever. I feel ya OP. &#55357;&#56850;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yeswecan

mupostori said:


> A relationship with God is not worship. True Worshiping is worshiping when you have a relationship with God and you mean the words you say in worship.
> 
> Give me a definition of what worship is from the scriptures .


The purpose of our worship is to glorify, honor, praise, exalt, and please God. Our worship must show our adoration and loyalty to God for His grace in providing us with the way to escape the bondage of sin, so we can have the salvation He so much wants to give us. The nature of the worship God demands is the prostration of our souls before Him in humble and contrite submission. James 4:6, 10 tells us, "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up". Our worship to God is a very humble and reverent action.

Jesus says in John 4:23-24, "But the hour is coming, and now is, when true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." It doesn’t say we can worship God anyway we want, but we "must worship Him in spirit and in truth". The word "must" makes it absolute. There is no other way we can worship God and be acceptable to Him. The word "must", according to Webster, expresses "an obligation, a requirement, a necessity, a certainty, and something that must be done". When "must" is used it means that it is not optional. Here the word "must" is expressing that in spirit and in truth is the only way to acceptably worship God. 

Since God is the object of our worship, He and He alone has the right to determine how we are to worship Him. We read in Jeremiah 10:23, "O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself, it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps." We are not granted the option of directing our own ways in religion. God is the One who we look to for guidance and direction in our lives.

Lesson 1


I do not see anything suggesting dancing and singing as an integral part of worshiping God. Yes, a relationship with God is a form of worship if it is done with spirit and truth. Suggesting how someone should worship is wrong. It is personal.


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## SimplyAmorous

kittykatz said:


> I don't believe I have a problem with worship at all. God made us all different and gave us all different personalities. Some people are more outgoing and animated, some are more modest and keep their emotions to themselves. I am one of those people that tend to keep my emotions to myself. It's not just in church, I'm like that when it comes to everything. Sometimes during the music, if it's a song I really can relate to, I will even get emotional and I find myself trying to hold back tears. So no one can tell me that my way of worshipping is less than theirs just because Im not extremely animated about it like they are. And furthermore, it's no one's place to tell me that. That's up to God to judge.


I so agree with what you say here.. the Church I went to for many years sounded much like what you have described here -except not randomly walking up & taking the microphone.. very friendly people, dancing in the aisles, some spoke in tongues.. now ME.. the most I ever did was clap & sing, preferred sitting near the back too... but I so enjoyed watching the expression of others -that freedom.. and how true.. the more reserved / personality more introverted, these people are NOT going to be dancing in the aisles, I was never one to raise my hands either. 

They called our church "Undenominational" but it was clearly geared Pentecostal.... I had issues with a # of things taught there.. even feeling I was "less than"/ not to their level or "spiritual enlightenment" & all that.... to the point... It turned me off to religion in a # of ways...now I am a Deist.. but I still have many friends who are christian. 

Laughing reading your Post Intheory! 

I just see this as Extroverts not understanding Introverts when you come across something like this.. and being "TOO spiritually minded" can cross over -then* they THINK* God is speaking to them >>> *NOT** !* 

This is a saying out of one of my temperament books.. I think you would like it...



> "Different Drums for Different Drummers"
> 
> If I do not want what you want, please try not to tell me that my want is wrong.
> 
> Or if I believe other than you, at least pause before you correct my view.
> 
> ** Or if my emotion is less than yours, or more, given the same circumstances, try not to ask me to feel more strongly or weakly.
> 
> ** Or yet if I act, or fail to act, in the manner of your design for action, let me be. I do not, for the moment at least, ask you to understand me. That will come only when you are willing to give up changing me into a copy of you.
> 
> If you will allow me any of my own wants, or emotions, or beliefs, or actions, then you open yourself to the possibility that some day these ways of mine might not seem so wrong, and might finally appear as right--- FOR ME. To put up with me is the 1st step to understanding me.
> 
> Not that you embrace my ways as right for you, but that you are no longer irritated or disappointed with me for my seeming waywardness. And in understanding me you might come to prize my differences from you, and, far from seeking to change me, preserve and even nurture those differences.
> 
> I may be your spouse, your parent, your offspring, your friend, or your colleague. But whatever our relation, this I know: You are I are fundamentally different and both of us have to march to our own drummer.


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## letsbenice

I know exactly what you mean, although I'm not into religion we were raised . . . Adventist! The most hardcore type of Christian. No shorts, no jewelry, no dancing, no Christmas tree's; most of all - no nothing. So my friend talks me into going to this church where people are waving arms and speaking in tongues, and literally appear to be possessed, and I seem to be the only one not really into it, I felt uncomfortable as you did and to compensate for my discomfort I left a BIG bill in the collection plate - my bad.

She probably was talking to you, but . . she can go to - heaven  these people aren't just good hearted Christians, they literally see the devil everywhere. I had to fix a computer once for the church, simple error stuff, but they had convinced themselves that . . . the devil did it and they had people praying over it and casting out demons and they aren't too much better than muslim extremists, if they had the power they'd burn people like me and you at the stake.


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## mupostori

James 4:6, 10 tells us, "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up"

Worship Leader : lets us raise our hands in worship 
person 1: Why is he telling me to raise my hands, I hate it why is he telling me what to do
person 2: lifts their hands without question

Of these two persons which one is the humble one?

But the hour is coming, and now is, when true worshipers will worship.The true worshipers here are worshiping .Maybe I phrased my question the wrong way .What I wanted is for you to show how worship was done from the scriptures. You will find out there is a lot of bowing down going on . 

*Worship*

Pslam 132
7 “Let us go to his dwelling place,
let us worship at his footstool, saying,
8‘Arise, Lord, and come to your resting place,
you and the ark of your might.
9 May your priests be clothed with your righteousness;
may your faithful people sing for joy.’ ”

(1)In worshiping there is saying , which means words a being spoken. 

2 Chronicles 29
27 Then Hezekiah ordered that the burnt offering be offered on the altar. When the burnt offerings began, the song of the Lord and the trumpets began, accompanied by the instruments of David king of Israel. 28 The whole assembly was worshiping, singing the song, and blowing the trumpets—all of this continued until the burnt offering was completed.

(2) In worship there is singing and playing of instruments ,the whole assembly was worshiping singing the song.

Roamns 12:1
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 

(3) Living a holy life is true worship

Pslam 63:4
I will praise you as long as I live,
and in your name I will lift up my hands.

Lifting of hands 

Praise and Worship are two different activities.

*Praise*

Praise is about exhalting t someone. That is why a person can be praised but not worshiped . After David had killed Goliath the women sang a song praising David and Saul.Praise involves singing ,dancing,words,shouting ,clapping hands .

Pslam 47 
1 O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.
6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.
7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal.Praise is one of our weapons.
Psalm 8 
Through the praise of children and infants you have established a stronghold against your enemies,to silence the foe and the avenger. 

That last part of pslam 47:7 is very interesting ,sing ye praises with understanding.Whatever you do do it with understanding. do not be like the people in Jude:10 who slander whatever they do not understand.

*Relationship with God *

Isaiah 30:20
Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. 21 Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”

My understanding of having a relationship with God is this. God the father is in heaven but the holy spirit who is that teacher mentioned here ,lives in me .It is he who I relate with , he tells me this the way walk in it , I say to him lord I don't understand this teach me your ways that I may walk in them (basically we are in conversation and this is not the same as worship)


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## arbitrator

*We United Methodists are never deemed to be a confrontational lot nor are we going to get right up in your face to share the love and word of God! Like us, we think that you will find Him of your own accord! Kind of like our founder, the flamboyant English country preacher, John Wesley!

Y'all just keep on looking and you will eventually find what it is that you are truly looking for as a couple!*


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## Dedicated2Her

> Y'all just keep on looking and you will eventually find what it is that you are truly looking for as a couple!


Please do this. Keep looking. Maybe your path is not to attend "a church" at all. (I know I'll catch wrath for saying that) 

I'm currently in a men's small group and that's it. My fiance does her girls group. We use sunday mornings to sit on our back porch and just take in some quiet time. It works for us.

Neither of us want to go to a church and listen to a guy tell us about his relationship with God from the pulpit. It's just our thing. We are happy and at peace about it.

Find what works for you as a couple.


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