# Guys (or girls): What's going on here?



## nicam (Jul 20, 2011)

Back in 2004 I met a guy through mutual friends. My best friend ended up marrying his friend, and although this guy and I always had a crush on each other, we were never in the same place at the same time while we were both single. I actually started a relationship with someone else around the time that we first met, knowing he liked me (I was young and stupid). 

Our mutual friends all say what a cute couple we'd make and have been trying to hook us up since the very beginning.

Well, we have recently been reunited and are living together as roommates with our other friend. We are both single. We flirt and tease each other all the time, do almost everything together, talk about everything under the sun all night, and even sleep in the same bed a lot because he has a TV in his room and we watch the same shows. We are also planning on getting a place together, just the 2 of us, as roommates, next month.

The problem is I like him as more than a friend, and I can't tell if he feels the same way or not despite all of the flirting, teasing, and quality fun time we spend together. He has not made a move although I would love for him to! I even sleep in his bed in my underwear. Come on!!! I'm trying not to be too obvious, but just enough to let him know.

Some more details: 

Not to brag, but I am attractive. I take good care of myself, and even model on the side. He has always been good-looking, and professionally successful, but this past year his company went under and he is now super-depressed. He no longer has the disposable income he's always been accustomed to having, and he has gained quite a bit of weight, about 30 lbs or so due to the depression. I don't care about this, because I've known him for a long time and know he is brilliant and one of the good guys and will come out on top. He's even lost 10lbs since we've been reunited. I just think maybe him feeling like he has nothing to offer and being so down on himself might be holding him back.

I do have a lot of guys trying to date me, which I do not flaunt in his face, but I always try and analyze his reaction to this. Just last week one of the guys at his office talked about wanting to hang out with me, and he said some unsavory things about him (maybe good?).

I'm not the type of girl to make the first move, I like to let a guy do his thing and pursue me. I also realize this situation is complicated because we live together. I don't want to rush things, but I am having a hard time playing it cool!

Any input or suggestions? How can I tell if he likes me as more than a friend? How should I play my cards here?

Thanks!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Are you sure he's not gay? Seriously, if a flirty single model spent time in my bed, even if we were "friends", I'd think she'd find out pretty quickly that I was interested in her. 

Failing that, you could push the boundaries a little more. Ask for a back rub, kiss him goodbye when you leave his bed, etc. If those kind of things don't work, he's not into you. Give up on the idea, and learn to enjoy his company as a room mate.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nicam (Jul 20, 2011)

PBear said:


> Are you sure he's not gay? Seriously, if a flirty single model spent time in my bed, even if we were "friends", I'd think she'd find out pretty quickly that I was interested in her.
> 
> Failing that, you could push the boundaries a little more. Ask for a back rub, kiss him goodbye when you leave his bed, etc. If those kind of things don't work, he's not into you. Give up on the idea, and learn to enjoy his company as a room mate.
> 
> ...


Ha, LMAO. I pulled the back rub thing the other day. Didn't get me anywhere. 

I used to flirt pretty heavily with him back in the day, but I stupidly chose someone else, so I never slept in his bed or spent a lot of 1-on-1 time like we do now. Maybe he just thinks I am a flirt, and like the old days don't want anything more out of it.

He's definitely not the aggressive type as far as pursuing women goes, but he is definitely NOT GAY! The depression doesn't help, and I think he may feel I'm out of his league, but I don't know how much more obvious I can be. Honestly...


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## rotor (Aug 28, 2010)

It's possible he is avoiding being intimate because of the roommate situation.

Back in my younger single days I was roommates with 2 women. We had a beautiful house and an ideal situation. Anyway one night me and one of the 2 women got to partying and we ended up 'testing out' so to speak every room in the house.

For me, it was a fun casual time. For her, I think she thought we were married or something and the white picket fence went up the next day.

She got all bent out of shape about it because I wasn’t madly in love with her and didn’t want to get tied down. She then turned into a first class B**** and started bringing guys home or any other thing she could do to get me jealous or generally get under my skin which I could honestly care less about which pissed her off even more. LOL

Anyway within 1 month the whole roommate situation melted down and we all moved out.

I swore to myself that if I was ever in a roommate situation again with another woman it would be hands off since good roommates are hard to find. LOL


Cheers,

rotor


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## nicam (Jul 20, 2011)

It's definitely possible he's holding out because of the roommate situation. Also, I have only been here for 3 weeks, so it's still kind of early on in the situation. He may not want to do anything rash, but rather just wait and see what happens.

I guess I can lay low for a month or more and feel it out more. Maybe I'm being too hasty and impatient. :scratchhead:


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

Nicam, it is exceedingly possible that he is not making a move on you because his career is currently in a slump. Us men often define ourselves by our jobs, our careers, and when they're not doing well, the last thing we desire is to start a new relationship. Additionally, you hanging in his bed with just underwear was a bad move...it cheapens you, and it makes you less desireable for a long term relationship. Not long ago I was a heavy dater, and chicks that got too intimate too fast were for me, just a great fcuk. At that point, my motivation went from determining if she might be long term relationship material to good time **** sex. Using sex to get a man works...he often will go with you....but mostly for great sex....and as to long term, no fcuking way!!


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Jeezs!!! Are you in high school or something??!!! If he doesn#t get the hint, hit him over the head with it!. Make a move yourself or just tell him you want to jump his bones! Would do you lose? If he#s not interested that way, he says no and you remain friends if you don#t respond poorly. If you ignite his passion you have opened a new frontier. Life is too short to play games...
just my opinion.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

KanDo said:


> Jeezs!!! Are you in high school or something??!!! If he doesn#t get the hint, hit him over the head with it!. Make a move yourself or just tell him you want to jump his bones! Would do you lose? If he#s not interested that way, he says no and you remain friends if you don#t respond poorly. If you ignite his passion you have opened a new frontier. Life is too short to play games...
> just my opinion.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
sums it up pretty well


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

ask him?

you don't get what you don't ask for


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

KanDo said:


> Jeezs!!! Are you in high school or something??!!! If he doesn#t get the hint, hit him over the head with it!. Make a move yourself or just tell him you want to jump his bones! Would do you lose? If he#s not interested that way, he says no and you remain friends if you don#t respond poorly. If you ignite his passion you have opened a new frontier. Life is too short to play games...
> just my opinion.


No, no, no. Listen to what ThirdTimesACharm is saying. 

If you move quickly like this, you will be fast in... fast out. You don't need to play yourself like this. You don't need to try this hard. He either wants you... or he doesn't. You throwing yourself at him will get you his d\ck... and nothing else. And you will eventually get hurt when you realize after a couple weeks that's all you are going to get of him.

So if all you want is to be pumped and dumped, by all means come into his room naked with an arrow pointing to your crotch. But if you want more, tell him how you feel about him, and take it from there. Perhaps he just moves slow. When i was young, i moved slow. If he thinks alot of you, he isn't going to put the moves on you right away. But please, please don't make yourself out to be some easy tramp. Once he gets that opinion of you... its a wrap, you'll never be able to hit the "reset" button.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

overweight, unemployed and depressed is no way to go through life, son.


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## rikithemonk (Jun 8, 2011)

Rob774 said:


> No, no, no. Listen to what ThirdTimesACharm is saying.
> 
> If you move quickly like this, you will be fast in... fast out. You don't need to play yourself like this. You don't need to try this hard. He either wants you... or he doesn't. You throwing yourself at him will get you his d\ck... and nothing else. And you will eventually get hurt when you realize after a couple weeks that's all you are going to get of him.
> 
> So if all you want is to be pumped and dumped, by all means come into his room naked with an arrow pointing to your crotch. But if you want more, tell him how you feel about him, and take it from there. Perhaps he just moves slow. When i was young, i moved slow. If he thinks alot of you, he isn't going to put the moves on you right away. But please, please don't make yourself out to be some easy tramp. Once he gets that opinion of you... its a wrap, you'll never be able to hit the "reset" button.


Pumped and dumped? No one pumps and dumps a close friend. I recommend next time your in bed with him, Idly stroke his crotch through his pants as you casually watch TV. He will do one of two things. Get interested, or grab your wrist and remove your hand. Bingo, you have your answer. 

Thing to remember is this. Sex to men is a fun activity to unwind at the end of the day. Much like Cards, A casual video game, or a hot bath. He may simply think your offering casual fun in an effort to unwind and release some tension between friends. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing if he returns the orgasms. Besides, after the sex, laying on each other, would be a good time to ask, "Have you ever considered dating me?"

You may be surprised to find that he didn't think you were interested. Especially if your hot, he may simply think your out of his league. Especially younger men tend to fear hitting on a hot friend for fear of ruining things for ever and so they simply stay friend zoned.


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## nicam (Jul 20, 2011)

rikithemonk said:


> Pumped and dumped? No one pumps and dumps a close friend. I recommend next time your in bed with him, Idly stroke his crotch through his pants as you casually watch TV. He will do one of two things. Get interested, or grab your wrist and remove your hand. Bingo, you have your answer.
> 
> Thing to remember is this. Sex to men is a fun activity to unwind at the end of the day. Much like Cards, A casual video game, or a hot bath. He may simply think your offering casual fun in an effort to unwind and release some tension between friends. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing if he returns the orgasms. Besides, after the sex, laying on each other, would be a good time to ask, "Have you ever considered dating me?"
> 
> You may be surprised to find that he didn't think you were interested. Especially if your hot, he may simply think your out of his league. Especially younger men tend to fear hitting on a hot friend for fear of ruining things for ever and so they simply stay friend zoned.


Yeah, he is a close friend. Not some guy I just met. I'm so not worried about getting "pumped and dumped" here, and at this point I've made him wait 7+ years. And, I'm not cheapening myself prancing around in my underwear just for the hell of it. We've been sharing a room because one of the roommates here (the one who's room I am supposed to take) has not moved out yet although he was supposed to have by now, and he offered for me to share his room so I don't have to sleep on the couch and can watch TV. I usually sleep in my clothes, but one night I had jean shorts on and hate sleeping in denim so I discreetly took them off under the covers. I got up once to use the bathroom and he saw me in my underwear, which were boy shorts, so not thongs or anything.

Someone else told me that although I think I'm being obvious I am probably not being obvious enough. I dunno...

I definitely want to play this conservatively. I think I am just going to stay real cool and just see what happens. We seem to get closer every day, so... if a month or 2 goes by and we're still in the same spot then I will bring it up, in a fun and lighthearted way, in conversation. I don't want to let my hormones get the best of me and rush into this clumsily. 

I think rikithemonk is spot on. I think he feels like I'm out of his league, especially given he is in a slump right now. I think he's thought that since 2004.


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

rikithemonk said:


> Pumped and dumped? No one pumps and dumps a close friend. I recommend next time your in bed with him, Idly stroke his crotch through his pants as you casually watch TV. He will do one of two things. Get interested, or grab your wrist and remove your hand. Bingo, you have your answer.
> 
> Thing to remember is this. Sex to men is a fun activity to unwind at the end of the day. Much like Cards, A casual video game, or a hot bath. He may simply think your offering casual fun in an effort to unwind and release some tension between friends. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing if he returns the orgasms. Besides, after the sex, laying on each other, would be a good time to ask, "Have you ever considered dating me?"
> 
> You may be surprised to find that he didn't think you were interested. Especially if your hot, he may simply think your out of his league. Especially younger men tend to fear hitting on a hot friend for fear of ruining things for ever and so they simply stay friend zoned.


Your advise is perfect, if she just wants a sex partner. 

As to a relationship, you will not find one marital/relationship counselor in America that would agree with you advise. You obviously known nothing about normal loving relationships. 

Oh, and yea, often a friend will pump and dump...get real!!!


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

nicam said:


> Yeah, he is a close friend. Not some guy I just met. I'm so not worried about getting "pumped and dumped" here, and at this point I've made him wait 7+ years. And, I'm not cheapening myself prancing around in my underwear just for the hell of it. We've been sharing a room because one of the roommates here (the one who's room I am supposed to take) has not moved out yet although he was supposed to have by now, and he offered for me to share his room so I don't have to sleep on the couch and can watch TV. I usually sleep in my clothes, but one night I had jean shorts on and hate sleeping in denim so I discreetly took them off under the covers. I got up once to use the bathroom and he saw me in my underwear, which were boy shorts, so not thongs or anything.
> 
> Someone else told me that although I think I'm being obvious I am probably not being obvious enough. I dunno...
> 
> ...


You want to play this "conservatively"? Really? You share his bed in your undies, and you think you're being conservative? Hello?!? It could be your a nice teddybear to him, but I suspect because of your LIBERAL behavior he would NEVER want to have anything with you....warm teddybear yes, soulmate, no fcuking way!


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## rikithemonk (Jun 8, 2011)

nicam said:


> Yeah, he is a close friend. Not some guy I just met. I'm so not worried about getting "pumped and dumped" here, and at this point I've made him wait 7+ years. And, I'm not cheapening myself prancing around in my underwear just for the hell of it. We've been sharing a room because one of the roommates here (the one who's room I am supposed to take) has not moved out yet although he was supposed to have by now, and he offered for me to share his room so I don't have to sleep on the couch and can watch TV. I usually sleep in my clothes, but one night I had jean shorts on and hate sleeping in denim so I discreetly took them off under the covers. I got up once to use the bathroom and he saw me in my underwear, which were boy shorts, so not thongs or anything.
> 
> Someone else told me that although I think I'm being obvious I am probably not being obvious enough. I dunno...
> 
> ...


My prediction is that he doesn't know what to make of you, will be too scared of ruining the friendship you both have together and wont make a move. He will meet someone else and you will watch them both date regretting that you weren't more open. This happens all the time, although usually to men more than women.

As for ThirdTimes response. You may be right, you may be wrong. I will be the first to admit that I'm not sexually like most other people. I'm extremely open minded and adventurous. When I was in High school I had a close friend who was a girl. We started having sex together for fun. We remained good friends for years until I eventually moved out of state. Casual sex doesn't always ruin things and neither of us "Pumped and dumped" the other. 

Everyone is different.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe he thinks you're being TOO aggressive and it turns him off.


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## nicam (Jul 20, 2011)

turnera said:


> Maybe he thinks you're being TOO aggressive and it turns him off.


Maybe? All I do is flirt though, and he does it equally back. To be considered aggressive wouldn't I have to actually make a move on him?

I dunno, maybe he only likes me as a friend and I should just forget about it...


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## nicam (Jul 20, 2011)

ThirdTimeACharm said:


> You want to play this "conservatively"? Really? You share his bed in your undies, and you think you're being conservative? Hello?!? It could be your a nice teddybear to him, but I suspect because of your LIBERAL behavior he would NEVER want to have anything with you....warm teddybear yes, soulmate, no fcuking way!


We're sharing a bed in a 100% platonic situation. How does this make me pump and dump material? We don't even touch in bed. What are you saying? Should I just go back to sleeping on the couch and pay him very little attention? I haven't given it up to him in 7 years, I don't think he sees me as easy, or questions my moral compass. 

So, ThirdTimes, you have my attention...what do you actually suggest I do?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> ask him?
> 
> you don't get what you don't ask for


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

nicam said:


> We're sharing a bed in a 100% platonic situation. How does this make me pump and dump material? We don't even touch in bed. What are you saying? Should I just go back to sleeping on the couch and pay him very little attention? I haven't given it up to him in 7 years, I don't think he sees me as easy, or questions my moral compass.
> 
> So, ThirdTimes, you have my attention...what do you actually suggest I do?


My suggestion would be to go back to sleeping on the sofa and get out of this guy's bed. Maybe he'd like to share it with someone else?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nicam said:


> Maybe? All I do is flirt though, and he does it equally back. To be considered aggressive wouldn't I have to actually make a move on him?
> 
> I dunno, maybe he only likes me as a friend and I should just forget about it...


 Um...you climb into bed with him almost naked. To a guy, that's just about raping him.


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

Nicam, I'm certainly no prud, and so I understand your sexuality and such.

But lets not confuse male f-buddies with a male you want a relationship with. If this dude was just an F-buddy then yea, sleep with him, be ****ty, I won't judge you, and in fact I think its better for a woman to be that way then to try to be in a real relationship with the wrong clown.

But you want a relationship with this man, yet you are approaching it as though you want him to be your F-buddy. You confuse the two.

Sadly it may be that it is too late for you and him because he cannot unremember your behavior to date.

My advise for the next guy you meet and want a real relationship with is to:

1. Don't sleep with him until you are in love, and after at least 10 dates. This means not even to sleep with him with no intercourse.

2. If you feel that you have to try "harder" he is not the guy for you. This dillussion these days that it is ok for a girl to be aggressive is only believed by those that don't truly know men.

3. A girl has the best chance of scoring a high quality dude if she puts herself in situations for getting him to notice. This is not the same thing as being aggressive or making the first move. There is a difference.

4. Things that go up fast come down fast. When a girl gives up her body before love and especially before the 3rd date, her stock falls sharply. Now don't be confused on this...sex fast will oftne get him very, very intested in you, but for the wrong reasons...he will call and call and attend to you, so that he can get laid. 

5. Often a man meets a woman and his strategy is to explore a normal relationship with her. However, if she gives it up fast, he may very well still pursue her, but now his goal is different. It is no longer to explore a relationship...it has changed to exploring the sexual possabilities with his new F-buddy.

6. A girl's stock falls when she uses sex to reel him in, makes most of the phone calls, does most of the moves.

7. Use the power of saying NO, saving your body for the man that deserves it.

8. If you're not in a relationship and are horny, no problem...just hook up with one of your male f-buddies...nothing wrong with this...but if you want a relationship with a man, do not do this.

Hope this helps


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## ThirdTimeACharm (Sep 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> Um...you climb into bed with him almost naked. To a guy, that's just about raping him.


True, and doing that guarentees that your stock with him takes a massive nose dive....and if you do that with him, he will wonder what else and with whomelse you've been so liberal with. It matters NOTHING that you have known him for many years...the clock resets to zero when you go from friend to potential couple.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My husband was really popular, and he always had girls sleeping in his bed (he managed a band). He thought the same kinds of thoughts about the girls who did that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ThirdTimeACharm said:


> Nicam, I'm certainly no prud, and so I understand your sexuality and such.
> 
> But lets not confuse male f-buddies with a male you want a relationship with. If this dude was just an F-buddy then yea, sleep with him, be ****ty, I won't judge you, and in fact I think its better for a woman to be that way then to try to be in a real relationship with the wrong clown.
> 
> ...


 Excellent advice.


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## nicam (Jul 20, 2011)

I'm not climbing into his bed naked, and have not been overtly sexual thus far. We are sleeping together in a platonic setting (like I said in a previous post, the underwear thing probably went unnoticed by him), fully clothed except for the one time, much like I would share a bed with one of my female friends. My hormones are a little crazy, but he hasn't made a move sexually, and I haven't been sexually suggestive.

When I say it's obvious I like him, that is mutual. Our friends all notice how we are together, and we just have a great banter and are on the same level in so many ways. 

This man knows my relationship history inside and out, and I know his. There is NO way he's wondering who else I've been so liberal with because he KNOWS everything. We have a completely intellectual relationship as of now based on trust, respect, humor, etc., and although we've obviously always been attracted to each other, I have never been receptive to his subtle advances in the past. For the first time in my life I thought maybe I should have listened to everyone when they said we would make the best couple, and shouldn't have shot him down way back when.

I guess as time goes on I will know the truth. If I end up just keeping him as a lifelong friend, that will be OK too. 

I appreciate the advice though and will certainly make sure to keep my distance, tone down any sexual innuendos, and keep busy so I'm not too available. I am glad you guys grounded me, and I will now not let my hormones take over!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're that mentally close to him, why can't you just be honest?


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## rikithemonk (Jun 8, 2011)

nicam said:


> I'm not climbing into his bed naked, and have not been overtly sexual thus far. We are sleeping together in a platonic setting (like I said in a previous post, the underwear thing probably went unnoticed by him), fully clothed except for the one time, much like I would share a bed with one of my female friends. My hormones are a little crazy, but he hasn't made a move sexually, and I haven't been sexually suggestive.
> 
> When I say it's obvious I like him, that is mutual. Our friends all notice how we are together, and we just have a great banter and are on the same level in so many ways.
> 
> ...


Be careful what advice you listen to. Being a sexual refrigerator isn't the answer for most relationships. Here is the best answer that I can give you. Be yourself. He likes and became friends with you. Your not some frigged nun or some ****ty hooker. You are a normal woman with the same sexual needs and wants that everyone else has. Just be yourself.

BUT, stop ***** footing around and talk to the guy. Ask HIM out on a date. Actually use the word DATE so he gets the message. All your doing is confusing him and frustrating yourself. 

If you ask men what they want from women. What they would change about our society about how women function. Most men would have this at the top of their list. We want women to just say what they want. Women constantly make us have to guess, and they always get angry or disappointed in us when were way off the mark.


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## rikithemonk (Jun 8, 2011)

ThirdTimeACharm said:


> Nicam, I'm certainly no prud, and so I understand your sexuality and such.
> 
> But lets not confuse male f-buddies with a male you want a relationship with. If this dude was just an F-buddy then yea, sleep with him, be ****ty, I won't judge you, and in fact I think its better for a woman to be that way then to try to be in a real relationship with the wrong clown.
> 
> ...


While I agree with "save your body for the man that deserves it." , I think your off base in the modern world when it comes to your outlook on sex. If Ive been dating a woman for more than 8 dates, and were getting along great and I'm feeling like were in a relationship. I'm expecting sex and intimacy. If I'm not seeing it by this point. Red flags begin waving. 

In my experience women who withhold sex past a "reasonable" point in time, have serious issues of some sort. I have dated a lot, and have run into several women who didn't think sex was necessary. Every single one of them turned out to have personality disorders. None of them minor ones. While there are men who enjoy fixing damaged or high maintenance women, I have never been one. In my opinion life is far to complicated and troublesome all on its own without adding to it by dating an emotionally damaged person. 

Personally, If I was a woman who was dating a man for months who I was withholding sex from, and if he was OK with the situation, that should be a major red flag. There is something wrong with him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not everyone puts that much emphasis on sex and has to have it that much. Some enjoy the other parts of a relationship more and save it for more...special times.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Nobody has said it thus far so I will: OP, you are coming across as very desperate and it's probably a turn off to him. (Or he's gay). Either way, it sounds like the old cliche "He's just nto that into you."

Not many men would have an attractive woman in their bed in her underwear and not want to "do it." (Or "do something" at the very least).

The very fact that he hasn't pounced on you or reciprocated says it all -- he's not down with it. 

So my advice is to respect yourself more. Stop crawling into his bed in your underwear. That is something you do with a romantic undertone--not behavior shared wtih every Tom, D!ck and Harry. (And yes, I know you said he's been your friend for 7+ years but I have friends from that long ago and would never ever crawl into bed with them wearing my underwear unless we were about to do the horizontal mambo--the pretext would be there). 

So stop. If you guys are moving in together soon and he's not feeling you anyway, it could be making things more difficult. 

And I agree with everything stated below: 



ThirdTimeACharm said:


> Additionally, you hanging in his bed with just underwear was a bad move...it cheapens you, and it makes you less desireable for a long term relationship.





Rob774 said:


> You throwing yourself at him will get you his d\ck... and nothing else.





ThirdTimeACharm said:


> You want to play this "conservatively"? Really? You share his bed in your undies, and you think you're being conservative? Hello?!?


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