# Child Support



## GettingBetter (Mar 7, 2013)

A question for those who are currently paying for CS...how much of your paycheck goes towards the CS? What are your custody arrangements?
I am paying 28% for two kids and have 50/50 shared custody. She has the residential custody. I see my kids a lot, but to be honest it's not 50% of the time. They cant spend the night at my place during the week because I have to be at work really early. Today I consulted a lawyer who said I would be able to lower those payments, maybe even eliminate them completely if I can prove the kids are spending 50% of the time with me. 
I called my ex (big mistake) and told her what I was planing to do. I wanted to see if she was willing to sit down and discuss lower payments...well, as I thought she called me selfish (btw she is a cheater...lol) and that she will give me an answer tomorrow after she consults an attorney.
Did anyone have any luck lowering their CS payment? 
Now I know some of you will attack me...but I do provide for my kids...pay 1/2 of their medical bills, buy them clothing, toys, I feed them...I do think that I should pay CS, but 28% is killing me.
Thanks
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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

I got my support payments lowered because one of my 2 daughters came to live with me. That's about the only sure way to do it. My child support payments for one daughter are about 10% of my adjusted income. It's lower than the typical 17% because I make a lot of money so the formula doesn't apply after a certain threshold, but it's probably a lot more than you're paying.

You've got a few things working against you.

1- It's hard to change an existing divorce agreement, especially if the parties agreed to it and settled rather than a judge making a decision. And especially if it was a recent decision and there has been no significant and unforseen change of circumstances. After checking your back posts, it appears your divorce was final less than a year ago. 

2- You say right there in your post that you don't spend 50% of the time with the children!

3- You alerted your wife to what you are planning to do. She's not going to want to lose those support payments so she'll be SURE not to give you the children more than 50% of the time. It's like a war commander sending a note to the enemy telling them when and where you plan to attack and how many soldiers you're going to use.

I don't think you've got a good chance at all, it sounds to me like you found an attorney that is looking to bill you a whole bunch of money only to say to ultimately say to you "sorry the judge didn't see it our way" and whatever attorney you had during the divorce didn't do their job very well if you're considering going back to court to try to change your divorce terms that weren't done right the first time.

Do you really think your wife will run right down to an attorneys office tomorrow to have a consult? Sounds rather.. responsive. To the point of unrealistic. When and if she does speak to an attorney she will probably be told that you have a really poor chance of making a change in the support payments but to be sure not to let you be with the kids half of the time. She'll probably get back to you with 'no deal, sorry' and she'll be more resistant to letting you see the children. She'll probably be keeping a journal of the number of overnights.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

If your ex's lawyer is worth a penny she's going to go into court for the modification and let them know the kids aren't getting 50% with you, and then your payments will probably go up.

Each state has a max percentage of your income that CS can be.

For me it's about 1/6 of my gross and 25% of my take home. But that doesn't include separate support and maintenance or daycare.

But that is also me paying for every other weekend as well, 50/50 would be about 12% of my take home.


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## GettingBetter (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for the response guys. Any way I look a it I'm screwed. I just f*****g hate this "no fault" system. I can barely afford anything after the CS, rent and all other payments. 
If I was to truly have my kids 50% of the time I would miss a lot of work which would mean even less money. I guess I just have to face it that the courts are most of the time on the side of the mothers.
I just kills me that I can not afford to take my boys on vacation, cant buy them anything...hope one day they will understand that I tried. At least I can give them a lots of love and be the best dad I can be.
It's just funny how she looks at it...like I was the one who caused the divorce and messed up everyones life.
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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Don't buy them clothes or toys unless they are gifts for a birthday or holiday. That is what support is for. You should not be providing clothing if you are paying support to her. Your CS is to cover your share of what it costs to raise them. Your only expenses should be food and entertainment when they visit.

Just because the divorce was her fault shouldn't make the kids suffer or live a lesser lifestyle. As a mother SHE should sacrifice and cut back on some things. But it does cost more to have two households vs. one. 

I do think those who pay support should be able to write it off their taxes since the recipient usually gets to write off the dependents. Or each claim a half-dependent since both parents "pay" to support the kids.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Understand, GB, that you will have to spend money to get the money.

You will have to hire a lawyer and pay for court fees to try for a support modification that you might not -- probably won't, in all honesty -- get.

In the long run, you might be better off looking for ways to slim your budget down, instead.


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## GettingBetter (Mar 7, 2013)

The budget is as slim as it gets. I have no cable...canceled gym membership...sharing WIFI with next door neighbor...I cook so there is noo need to eat outside. The only money I spend on myself is going out twice a month with my buddies for a couple of beers. 
I know my chances of lowering the CS are slim, not even gonna try unless she agrees to modification, and that too is very unlikely. 
Bouncing back is a lot harder than I thought. I have to do some side jobs on the weekends when I do not have the kids just to scrape by. OTH, her life is not going the way she imagined either. But that is not my problem...just as it's not her problem how I live.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I'd also suggest getting intimately familiar with the CS guidelines and calculator in your state. If you truly have them 50/50, you shouldn't have so much of your paycheck going to support payments.

Make sure the guidelines are being used correctly. Little known fact but in most states you use minimum wage as the minimum amount the mother should make, even if she stays at home.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

If you were going to go for a reduction based on 50/50 time (overnights, that's what counts, not afternoons) you'd need to be prepared to prove it... as your lawyer mentioned to you. And since you haven't yet, there's zero point in trying for a modification - you'd be spending money with zero chance of getting a reduction.

It sounds like your CS is based on a state formula. That's a blessing as well as a curse, because otherwise your ex would likely be scheming how to get even more from you.

The rest of this post may seem a bit harsh against your ex.. because it is. I've got an axe to grind (and an ex-) when it comes to women who cheat on honorable men, then see the kids as an income source and how skewed the family courts can be for dads.

Get yourself over to dadsdivorce.com and study up there and study up on the CS laws in your state. You need to be thinking 10 steps ahead of her for anything and everything you do that could put the two of you back in family court. Seriously.

Another thing you might want to do is try and mitigate the damage you did by tipping your hand to your ex-. Did she talk to an attorney yet? If not (or even if so possibly), the next time you call her (for some other reason), after discussing something else, just mention something like "Oh, I've given up on the CS modification idea, the payments will stay as they have been. My lawyer said that even 50/50 won't change a thing the way our state system is set up - I think he just wanted more billable hours from me" - it's a lie, but if her attorney hasn't given her specific information otherwise she will likely buy it, because it means she doesn't have to lift a finger or spend any money to keep things the way she wants them. You want to keep her out of court unless it is in response to something you initiated. Never let her see it coming and prepare.

At this point, you're fighting for your kids and your financial health. 

If she buys something like the above, it'll help you establish a true 50%+ of time... *IF* you can actually give that much to your kids. Sadly if you're working full time and she's not, it can make it very hard for you to have that much time to give. You have to be realistic about that.

Another thing to do I'd recommend is to never tip your hand if your income situation improves. Always give the impression you're on the edge of poverty and that she's extracting every ounce of blood from your turnip already. (where did that expression come from anyway?). Do this by dropping little comments into your communications with her and make it an ongoing theme/backstory. If she doesn't think you have any extra money she's less likely to be constantly hauling you back in to court for a modification and filing discovery on you. If she gets wind of any improvement in your situation, she's likely to consider it rightfully hers and come after you.

It sucks, and I understand how CS can be killing you (any Alimony in there also?) especially when she can use it on herself and tell you the kids basic needs are "your problem" when you get your turn with them.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Women who abuse the support give other divorced mothers a bad name. I provide everything for my daughter, right down to the toiletries she takes. She didn't want to ask her Dad for razors when she started shaving - I bought two and two sets of refills. She certainly doesn't want to ask him for tampons - last trip a box went to his house. Literally he only has to provide meals when the are together and shampoo/soap/toothpaste. She goes with a bag of clean clothes and comes home with a load of dirty ones - he doesn't even do laundry. Lots of other women find it ridiculous - I see it as what I'm supposed to do as the full-time parent. I've even told her to leave some underwear and a pair of shorts or a bathing suit at his place just so she has some extras. She is WELL provided for between the two of us.

I wouldn't want support to be recalculated unless they can take all of the expenses into account. He lives with his Mom and pays no rent so I don't think it would be fair to use the standard calculator when I pay a $1000 mortgage - I think our individual expenses should be taken into consideration.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Is there any chance of changing your work hours so that you can have your kids a full 50%? My ex and I have our son 50% of the time, and I work full-time. It makes our life super hectic, but we do it, and so do many other parents around here. Week on/week off is very, very common here.

My ex is on disability and is in a program to try to start his own business. The money I get is not CS per se, but 1/2 of DS' portion of ex's SS disability payment, so no actual calculations came into play. The money follows DS, so whatever percentage of the time he's with each parent, that's how much of the benefit that parent gets. It's written into our D agreement that if ex goes off disability due to employment, and that payment stops, we will renegotiate. Fortunately right now, his SS payment is roughly similar to my income, so I don't think I'd end up owing him. I'd fight that if it happened.

I also buy pretty much everything for DS. I have to put him in daylong camps two weeks each month during the summer, and the amount I get doesn't cover it. Anything else comes out of my pocket. Because his father is unreliable, I've had to buy doubles of everything -- jackets, shoes, boots, snowpants, school supplies, etc., so that there's always something at my house. We tried switching things back and forth and it never worked out (even though ex is now living with his gf -- she hasn't been able to get him organized, either, lol). I am a big thrift and secondhand shopper (for myself as well as my son), so that helps a lot. Most kids outgrow clothes before they wreck them, so it makes sense to buy secondhand. 

Like Enjoli, I've gotten to the point of trying to work around my ex in this part of co-parenting, rather than trying to work with him.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

most states have a child support calculator. Usually increasing visitation time by the non-custodial parent can decrease CS payments. Other factors can be involved such as who is paying for the child care, who gets the IRS deduction, who pays for extracurricular activities etc.

and, of course, what has been dictated in your divorce decree and or custodial agreement come in to play.


Interesting, I have only just started reading this thread...


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

If your children's school has before school care..perhaps you could take them there on your way to work. Or iff you livenear your own parents drop them there before school...have your kids spend the night to make your "parenting time" where you need it to be.

As a Single Mother....we have to do this or find alternatives..why wouldn't you? 

Your argument about YOU feeding them and buying them clothes etc......um isn't that what each parent is supposed to do?
But having your kids 50% of the time AND paying child support for your children doesn't seem like the ideal situation certainly........check out your states health and human services division/dept of women and children whatever they call it where you are from and see the calculator for yourself.

If your financial situation has drastically changed since your child support/financial responsibility was set...perhaps you need a modification hearing. Some states oor counties you can simply write a letter to the judge outlining the changes and why and show proof and then you simply meet in court and the judge hears both and makes changes or not based upon what was presented. Other states require a lawyer period....answering those kinds of questions is really hard.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

AngelPixie, you might see about boys/girls club or YMCA in your area...they often have sliding scale income contingent programs, camps and memberships...especially since EH is on SSDI you would surely be at the income level to take advantage. {you said your income was same as his ssdi)

and of course, you all know that you can deduct all out of pocket daycare on your taxes


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks, UU -- I've tried to be very creative. I'm able to telecommute a little in the morning before he goes in to school, and a little after school so that I don't have to pay for child care during the school year. Summers are a different story, since I have to go by when the camps are available. I want to put DS in a variety of things, not just 'warehouse' him wherever it's cheapest, so I try to apply for reduced fees when possible. I just found out yesterday that I can get the fee for our childrens' theatre camp reduced by 1/2 if I volunteer to usher at the performances. I wish I knew that before he did that camp two weeks ago  but since he had a fantastic time and wants to do it again in a few weeks, I'll try to work it out. I did boy & girls club last year, as they were the most economical for me, but they were totally full all summer this year, even before the school year let out.  It's put me in a bit of a pickle this year. We don't have any relatives who live near us, and working with ex is best left to a minimum. We try to ask each other for help as little as possible, though I will usually say yes to him if I can so that I can spend more time with DS. 

It's pretty stressful, as most of us know.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Definitely know what you mean.

I am having a little bit of difficulty with some of the acronyms used here. Is there a post somewhere where this is delineated?

I get the DS Dear son, STBEW = soon to be ex wife stuff but sometimes in these posts I'm scratchin my noggin lol


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Here ya go:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/forum-guidelines/464-common-message-board-abbreviations-acronyms.html


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you at least get to claim the children as dependents on your taxes?


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Not sure if you're addressing this to everyone, or just the OP, Ele.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Thank you maam


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

My ex wife of over a year still has no full time employment. I pay over 65% of my gross pay for child support, maintenance, and her van payment, which leaves me very little. I have three kids aged 17, 15, and 11. I had to agree to giving her sole custody for financial reasons. 

One of the reasons we divorced was her very poor financial decisions. House in forclosure, just out of bankruptcy and enrolling kids in $2000 band camps etc. The joint custody agreement left me paying half of those types of expenses which I could not afford, and frankly, neither could she, but she still did it, and does it any way. She has an expectation that I maintain a complete second household including clothes, furniture, and everything. I simply can't afford it and she doesn't get it, and she never got it even when we were married.

Even though I currently provide about 90% of her household income, enough to cover all necessities like rent, utilities, food, insurance, van payment, and she works very part time, she still feels like I should be paying more. She claimed all three kids on her taxes leaving me with a nearly $10,000 IRS bill, and feels she was completely justified because the kids need the money. Her latest is her petitioning the court for me to pay the full amount of child support for all three kids until the youngest is out of high school...

ETA: She very rigerously holds to the every other weekend visitation, so I get to see my kids a total of 96 hours a month by her choice. I would gladly have them more...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

samyeagar said:


> My ex wife of over a year still has no full time employment. I pay over 65% of my gross pay for child support, maintenance, and her van payment, which leaves me very little. I have three kids aged 17, 15, and 11. I had to agree to giving her sole custody for financial reasons.
> 
> One of the reasons we divorced was her very poor financial decisions. House in forclosure, just out of bankruptcy and enrolling kids in $2000 band camps etc. The joint custody agreement left me paying half of those types of expenses which I could not afford, and frankly, neither could she, but she still did it, and does it any way. She has an expectation that I maintain a complete second household including clothes, furniture, and everything. I simply can't afford it and she doesn't get it, and she never got it even when we were married.
> 
> ...


Why are you going along with this? If what you say is accurate, I can't see how this would be what the court system forced on you, so is it self-inflicted?

C


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I have not gone along with any of this except the van payment. I went with that because it is joint property so my name is on the title and loan. I wanted to ensure that the payment was made so my kids had transportation, and to keep the inevitable repossession off my credit report. She does not currently have the credit to refinance in her own name. Once the loan amount is down a bit more, I am going to petition the court to shift the burden over to her. Beyond that, this is not self inflicted. I have already filed with the courts to compel her to take responsibility for a portion of the taxes, however, since she is the custodial parent, she had every legal right to claim all the kids on the taxes. I have already filed the counter to her child support request, and I am sure I will win that one, but these things still cost to do.

I did make a huge mistake in the beginning and that was to think that we could actually work through this nicely together. Boy was I wrong, and yes, I am now paying for it, and trying to clean up the mess as best as I can.

ETA: She originally wanted 10 years of weekly maintenance and was awarded 5. She wanted me to pay for her to go back to school. She didn't get that. She wanted me to pay for her fees to start an in home day care. She didn't get that. In the grand scheme of what she asked for, she didn't get it all.

ETA: As far as the visitations go, she has their schedules so packed that it is practically impossible to see them outside of the normal visitation. This is by her design so she has plausable reasons to tell the court that she is not witholding the kids, they are just so busy and don't have time. And the courts have bought that.


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