# Struggling with my partner's weight issues over the last few years



## onlysonny

Well, here goes...

So, I'm a 44-year-old writer and finance operations manager with an NYC university. My job is mostly for survival right now as I have been querying my novel over the last couple of years trying to find a traditional publisher (because I laughingly tell people when I got to NYC 16 years ago, "struggling writer" was the artistic cliché I picked from the list provided to me by the guy at the Amtrak station). Alas, so far, not so good on finding someone to publish my book.

I have also been in a 13+ year relationship with a woman with whom I am parenting an absolutely adorable (although very trying) 15-month old boy. We're both older parents and weren't entirely sure this whole baby thing was going to happen (she had been struggling with all sorts of health, hormonal, and fertility issues). So, his existence is quite remarkable (he arrived during the heart of the pandemic lock-down last June). Needless to say, early parenting during COVID-19 has been exceedingly difficult on the old emotional bandwidth.

I have been working remotely from home for nearly 18 months which has definitely exacerbated EVERYTHING emotionally and I have been battling some pretty severe depression and insomnia because of it all.

While parenting has its ups-and-downs, it really is the relationship with his mother that has been causing the most strife.

With everything that has happened over the last two years concerning the birth and early rearing of our child, I have really started to feel as if we are loving and compassionate roommates with a baby-project more than an intimate partnership. She has proven to be one of the smartest, savviest, financially competent, caring, and nurturing women I have ever known. She's a bad-ass is so many departments and I feel privileged to be raising a kid with her (it would truly have broken my heart if she had not had the opportunity to be a mother).

However, our intimate relationship feels completely strained.

She has battled a great deal of weight gain over the last several years and doesn't appear to be making too much effort to be losing it any time soon. She is aware of it (she has mentioned on a number of occasions that she constantly feels at war with her body) and does visit a trainer once a week to work out, but it often looks to be more ceremonial than an actual effort to combat the weight gain.

She's also expressed concern that the weight gain is putting a strain on our long-term relationship, especially in the sexual department. I work tirelessly to stay in shape, getting to the gym 5 to 6 times a week (although, in all fairness, some of that has fallen away somewhat as we have been in lockdown and gyms have been closed).

I promised myself I would never be this sort of guy and would never find myself in this sort of relationship. Or resenting someone for something that can be difficult to wrangle with. But I find myself adoring this woman as someone I share a peer relationship with more so than a set-the-bed-on-fire romantic/sexual relationship. Having said that, I often think the former type of relationship is the better sort to raise a child with. The latter can get messy in the long run. And don't all relationships eventually lose steam as they go?

But I long for a healthy sexual relationship with someone who can keep up with me.

It doesn't help that I have been propositioned a handful of times by younger, fitter women at a couple of the local bars to join them home for a tryst or two. I always decline, never wanting to repeat the indiscretions of my father (if not a serial cheater, he was someone who definitely was unfaithful to my mother a handful of times before divorcing her when I was around 11). But I have been tempted.

I just want to make sure I am doing best for all involved. My partner and I are not legally married, but I do want to make sure I am providing all that's needed for the child. And I want my partner to also be happy. She runs her own business and has been having to work double-time to keep the work-stead going in the midst of all this economic turmoil.

Sometimes I think about ending the relationship and making co parenting arrangements (we have discussed these possibilities, wanting to make the child's welfare top priority), but then I get seized with some nasty "dying alone" thoughts that run rampant through the old ruminating brain. These are the sort of thoughts that likely kept me in the relationship so long. Some blame should also go to my fundamentalist religious upbringing (although I have been out of that household for a while, so I really can't send too much blame that way after all this time).

I have been making efforts to get out and about more now that the world is opening up post-quarantine. I have been taking classes and getting out of my comfort zone (including a skydive a few weeks ago). So, reaching out to this forum is a continuing part of my efforts to get out of isolation. And that effort sometimes makes everything feel more intense. An acute reminder that there is a world outside this apartment, this relationship, this parenting endeavor.

At any rate, that's my story and that's what's keeping me up late nights these days.

And I figured I'd make a stab at sending this out to the world - at the very least to get things off my chest (and continuing to get out of the COVID-19 bunker).

Thanks for any insight or support.


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## sideways

Few comments and questions.

First don't be the guy that cheats on her. Just don't. 

How much weight has she gained? Pounds?

If she loss the weight how would that change things from your perspective?

How old are the two of you?

She certainly has a lot going on and if she's in her late 40s or 50s she certainly could be in early stages of menopause.


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## In Absentia

Finally, someone who can write properly and doesn't make any spelling mistakes!


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## jsmart

That’s a tough one. If you’re really taking care of your health and putting in the effort to look good but your partner is letting themselves go, it can put a damper on things. You don’t have desire for her but your sexual needs are still there but are unmet. If you cheat or leave, you will be judged harshly by friends and family and not to mention feel awful inside. 

My suggestion is to get her active in a playful activity that can be done together. Couples yoga, Zumba, or even just long daily walks. Then there’s the other piece of weight loss, diet. Getting her to try healthy foods and eliminate junk will get real results. 

These lockdowns have caused massive emotional problems throughout the world. The constant fear porn on the news combined with how impersonal we have become with not seeing each other’s faces leads to depression that many try to handle with bad eating habits or drugs, not to mention suicide rates go through the roof. Maybe just being the upbeat encourager can get her moving on the health front that can restart the happy sexy times that have waned of late.


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## Livvie

The "younger, fitter" women who are propositioning you likely come with their own issues that would **** you over in the long run. They may be "fit and young" but that doesn't mean they are quality women in other, non physical aspects and that you'd have a happy long term relationship with them.

Reading this forum for very many years has shown me, however, that men oftentimes judge a potential partner and quality of relationship based on physical characteristics. Until they find themselves deep into a toxic, unhealthy relationship with nasty issues. All because they are picking partners based hugely on physical/sex attributes with not enough attention to other aspects.


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## onlysonny

sideways said:


> Few comments and questions.
> 
> First don't be the guy that cheats on her. Just don't.
> 
> How much weight has she gained? Pounds?
> 
> If she loss the weight how would that change things from your perspective?
> 
> How old are the two of you?
> 
> She certainly has a lot going on and if she's in her late 40s or 50s she certainly could be in early stages of menopause.


Thanks for reaching out.

First off, no intentions to cheat. Don't want to be that guy.
It's a considerable amount of weight (80 lbs? ballpark) and I recognize that it won't come off easily considering her age (46). I'm 44 and recognize that we're not that young and spry anymore, but I still work to stay active so I can continue doing things I enjoy well into the later stages of my life (hiked some falls in upstate NY yesterday, still able to climb the mountains effectively). I definitely think her losing the weight would leave me less concerned about health issues that she's going to face as we get into our late 40's and 50's. Not to mention the energy required to chase after a toddler (that's right around the corner). 

I also acknowledge that she's got a metric ton of **** going on with her business. In many respects, she's a powerhouse. I guess that's why her health seems to be a strange blind spot for her.


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## onlysonny

In Absentia said:


> Finally, someone who can write properly and doesn't make any spelling mistakes!


Thanks  I do my best.


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## onlysonny

jsmart said:


> That’s a tough one. If you’re really taking care of your health and putting in the effort to look good but your partner is letting themselves go, it can put a damper on things. You don’t have desire for her but your sexual needs are still there but are unmet. If you cheat or leave, you will be judged harshly by friends and family and not to mention feel awful inside.
> 
> My suggestion is to get her active in a playful activity that can be done together. Couples yoga, Zumba, or even just long daily walks. Then there’s the other piece of weight loss, diet. Getting her to try healthy foods and eliminate junk will get real results.
> 
> These lockdowns have caused massive emotional problems throughout the world. The constant fear porn on the news combined with how impersonal we have become with not seeing each other’s faces leads to depression that many try to handle with bad eating habits or drugs, not to mention suicide rates go through the roof. Maybe just being the upbeat encourager can get her moving on the health front that can restart the happy sexy times that have waned of late.


Thanks for reaching out. The pandemic lockdown has been extraordinarily difficult. In addition to all the other stressors, having the moral fatigue of navigating these strange times has been a real kick in the ass. The advantage is getting so much time with the 15-month-old. No other place and no other time would have given us so much contact with the kid as such an impressionable stage.


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## sideways

"80 #s"

How tall is she and what does she weigh (roughly)?


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## sideways

How tall are you and what do you currently weigh?


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## onlysonny

Livvie said:


> The "younger, fitter" women who are propositioning you likely come with their own issues that would **** you over in the long run. They may be "fit and young" but that doesn't mean they are quality women in other, non physical aspects and that you'd have a happy long term relationship with them.
> 
> Reading this forum for very many years has shown me, however, that men oftentimes judge a potential partner and quality of relationship based on physical characteristics. Until they find themselves deep into a toxic, unhealthy relationship with nasty issues. All because they are picking partners based hugely on physical/sex attributes with not enough attention to other aspects.


Believe me, I've dated the younger "hot messes" and know firsthand how screwy they can be. Often the hot trysts are so exciting because they're roller coasters. But it's hard to settle comfortably into those. But there's no denying the erotic pull of a good sex partner. Even if they're not always the best fit in other categories. 

It's definitely a conundrum.


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## Al_Bundy

You said you are finance, so you know understand trends. Her weight gain is a major trend that's most likely not going to slow down or stop. Going to a trainer once a week is great but what is she doing the rest of the week? People make time for what matters to them.


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## onlysonny

sideways said:


> "80 #s"
> 
> How tall is she and what does she weigh (roughly)?


She's about 5' 5" and 260 lbs. (ballpark).


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## onlysonny

sideways said:


> How tall are you and what do you currently weigh?


I'm just shy of 5' 6" and weight about 170 lbs. (a little wiry, but muscular).


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## BigDaddyNY

onlysonny said:


> She's about 5' 5" and 260 lbs. (ballpark).


That puts her at a serious health risk. Personally I would try to impress upon her how important it is for her to stay healthy for the sake of her child.


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## onlysonny

Al_Bundy said:


> You said you are finance, so you know understand trends. Her weight gain is a major trend that's most likely not going to slow down or stop. Going to a trainer once a week is great but what is she doing the rest of the week? People make time for what matters to them.


Thanks for the insight. I know she has been coordinating with the Noom app while we've been in lockdown, but I'm not sure if there has been a major change in her eating patterns (in terms of changing up diet). We eat sensibly when we cook. I can't tell if there has been any late night binge eating or anything of that sort. We're probably drinking more than usual because of lockdown. That may be contributing. I try not to be judgmental, but I have registered concerns regarding a lot of this as lovingly as I can. And making sure I'm keeping an eye on my own health and fitness best I can.


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## onlysonny

BigDaddyNY said:


> That puts her at a serious health risk. Personally I would try to impress upon her how important it is for her to stay healthy for the sake of her child.


Thanks for touching base. Yes, staying healthy for the child is definitely a conversation we have had. Especially as we're getting older.


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## NTA

onlysonny said:


> She's about 5' 5" and 260 lbs. (ballpark).


Seems like by now her doctors would be warning her about the dangers of weight gain. My sister was told to lose 10 pounds or stake taking cholesterol pills. She never lost the weight and now she has practically a home pharmacy. 

Managing your weight isn't only about beauty.


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## Openminded

Upper range for a 5’5” female is less than 140 so definitely obese. That weight doesn’t get any easier to carry as you age.


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## Openminded

I was hoping she was younger than you, not older, because weight is tough at any age but especially as you get older. She’s looking at basically 100 pounds that should go.


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## sideways

onlysonny said:


> She's about 5' 5" and 260 lbs. (ballpark).


She has way more than 80#s to lose. 

You both have a young child now. I would assume she wants to be around to watch him grow up and to experience all the wonderful memories??

People want to coddle overweight individuals and never speak the truth to them. Your wife is morbidly obese and is a ticking time bomb. 

She's on the verge of being a diabetic if not already. She's insulin resistant and has so many other health issues along with her having a heart attack at any moment.

This is NOT something to be taken likely. 
She's a ticking time bomb.

She better get with the program and fast or she will not be around to watch your son grow up.

He NEEDS his mom!!

What is she willing to do about it?

NO MORE EXCUSES!!

This isn't a few #s. We're talking life or death.


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## onlysonny

NTA said:


> Seems like by now her doctors would be warning her about the dangers of weight gain. My sister was told to lose 10 pounds or stake taking cholesterol pills. She never lost the weight and now she has practically a home pharmacy.
> 
> Managing your weight isn't only about beauty.


Thanks for the thought. Yes, I know she's been working with her endocrinologist regarding some serious thyroid issues that are not helping with the whole situation. But she's definitely being told to get the weight under control by her doctors.


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## onlysonny

sideways said:


> She has way more than 80#s to lose.
> 
> You both have a young child now. I would assume she wants to be around to watch him grow up and to experience all the wonderful memories??
> 
> People want to coddle overweight individuals and never speak the truth to them. Your wife is morbidly obese and is a ticking time bomb.
> 
> She's on the verge of being a diabetic if not already. She's insulin resistant and has so many other health issues along with her having a heart attack at any moment.
> 
> This is NOT something to be taken likely.
> She's a ticking time bomb.
> 
> She better get with the program and fast or she will not be around to watch your son grow up.
> 
> He NEEDS his mom!!
> 
> What is she willing to do about it?
> 
> NO MORE EXCUSES!!
> 
> This isn't a few #s. We're talking life or death.


Thanks for your candor. And thanks for validating my concerns. I do care for her a great deal, but I have struggled with some of this and often feel unsure how to communicate health concerns to her as opposed to just the sexual component of the relationship.


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## Openminded

.


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## sideways

onlysonny said:


> Thanks for your candor. And thanks for validating my concerns. I do care for her a great deal, but I have struggled with some of this and often feel unsure how to communicate health concerns to her as opposed to just the sexual component of the relationship.


How long has it been since the Dr told her she needed to get her weight under control?

How much weight has she loss since this initial discussion (if any)?

How much did she weigh when the two of you met?


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## sideways

Your wife goes to the gym once a week?

She's obviously NOT taking this seriously!!

If anything she should start walking 45 minutes to an hour every day and start doing intermittent fasting.


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## onlysonny

sideways said:


> How long has it been since the Dr told her she needed to get her weight under control?
> 
> How much weight has she loss since this initial discussion (if any)?
> 
> How much did she weigh when the two of you met?


I know it's been an ongoing conversation with her doctors for a while. I think she lost 30 lbs. since one of her serious conversations (but she may have put that back on). I know she was losing weight during the pregnancy (not for trying, just her body reconfiguring). But that may have come back as well.

She was fit and fairly svelte when we met (she's never been a micro person, but she was running regularly and managing her eating well). Ballpark? 145 lbs. She was quite leggy with a good figure.


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## onlysonny

sideways said:


> Your wife goes to the gym once a week?
> 
> She's obviously NOT taking this seriously!!
> 
> If anything she should start walking 45 minutes to an hour every day and start doing intermittent fasting.


Thanks for the recommendations. I recently talked to a woman at one of our local pubs who struggled with similar weight fluctuations and she recommended fasting as well in combination with the keto diet (she's 45 and looks great; she jokingly said she was tired of looking in the mirror and seeing her "John Travolta" chin). I'm not as familiar with the stats on how people fare on that diet, but the fasting is something I hear quite frequently.


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## sideways

How long has it been since she weighed 145?


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## ccpowerslave

I mean if she weighed 145 she knows she’s fat and she knows she doesn’t have to be fat. So being fat is basically saying **** it. I mean I have sympathy for it because I have been there myself.

It sounds like you have already floated the idea of separating and if that didn’t really kickstart a serious weight loss effort then she seems pretty far along the **** it path.

The motivation obviously has to come from inside herself, she has to want something more than that next cheeseburger.


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## onlysonny

sideways said:


> How long has it been since she weighed 145?


It's probably been a few years. She's never shied away from discussing her weight struggles, but you're right that she needs to make more concerted efforts to take action and get it under control (especially as we get older). And, of course, it seems to be one of the most difficult things to discuss in an intimate relationship. I keep trying to lead by example (best I can).


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## onlysonny

ccpowerslave said:


> I mean if she weighed 145 she knows she’s fat and she knows she doesn’t have to be fat. So being fat is basically saying **** it. I mean I have sympathy for it because I have been there myself.
> 
> It sounds like you have already floated the idea of separating and if that didn’t really kickstart a serious weight loss effort then she seems pretty far along the **** it path.
> 
> The motivation obviously has to come from inside herself, she has to want something more than that next cheeseburger.


Thanks for reaching out. The real shame is that I wonder if separating might be the impetus for her to attack her health a fitness again with real vigor. It just sucks that it would take that sort of scorched earth tactic to get things rolling. Also, it's a shame because everything else about her is top shelf (quite cute, crazy smart, great with finances, runs a company that she's kept going for over a decade, she gives GREAT talk...some of the best chats I have ever had with anyone, much less a romantic partner, so giving and so generous, irreverent and fun at parties, great mother, great mothering spirit). Her fitness just seems to be this blind spot for her.


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## ccpowerslave

I’m lucky. My wife isn’t a thin model type figure, she has a bit of weight but she is concerned about her weight and stays within a range where she feels it is acceptable. So every once in a while I will see she is eating less and not eating sweets and such and she’s actively trying to lose. She weighs herself several times a week, I think this is key for her maintaining.

Her main issue with losing is she hates physical discomfort while exercising. So even though she knows if she does a tiny bit of high intensity interval work every day it will help her a lot she just won’t do it.

All of her loss comes from calorie restriction which is very difficult.


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## onlysonny

ccpowerslave said:


> I’m lucky. My wife isn’t a thin model type figure, she has a bit of weight but she is concerned about her weight and stays within a range where she feels it is acceptable. So every once in a while I will see she is eating less and not eating sweets and such and she’s actively trying to lose. She weighs herself several times a week, I think this is key for her maintaining.
> 
> Her main issue with losing is she hates physical discomfort while exercising. So even though she knows if she does a tiny bit of high intensity interval work every day it will help her a lot she just won’t do it.
> 
> All of her loss comes from calorie restriction which is very difficult.


I know where she's coming from in terms of hating physical discomfort. I often dread the gym, so I focus on how well I'll feel after I'm done at the gym. Otherwise, I'll talk myself out of going to the gym entirely.


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## uphillbattle

onlysonny said:


> Thanks for the thought. Yes, I know she's been working with her endocrinologist regarding some serious thyroid issues that are not helping with the whole situation. But she's definitely being told to get the weight under control by her doctors.


This can for sure be a large cause of her weight issues. It can also cause energy issues (which btw as you know, having a young child can also do). You need to stress it as a health issue with her and try to do things as couple that will help her get moving.


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## ccpowerslave

onlysonny said:


> I know where she's coming from in terms of hating physical discomfort. I often dread the gym, so I focus on how well I'll feel after I'm done at the gym. Otherwise, I'll talk myself out of going to the gym entirely.


So for her she has done the best with exercise when she has a personal trainer appointment many times a week 3+ and also a goal like a particular hike or something like that. My wife has a strong mind kind of how you describe your partner and when she wants something she will do the work.

So if the relationship isn’t enough (without scorched earth), health isn’t enough, what other kind of things motivate her?


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## Diana7

You say you go to the gym several times a week. Can you offer
to go less and look after the baby so she can go? If she doesn't like the gym maybe for a good walk or a swim? Is there anything you could do together if you can get a sitter? Or does she have a friend she could go with? 

Also if you both agree to stop drinking that would help. Stop all deserts, sweets, cakes, buscuits etc. Dont have them in the house.Nor fizzy drinks.

She sounds like a lovely lady and great mum. It would be such a shame if you left them. It's so important for a tiny child to have it's parents together.

Maybe some good MC would help you both?


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## onlysonny

uphillbattle said:


> This can for sure be a large cause of her weight issues. It can also cause energy issues (which btw as you know, having a young child can also do). You need to stress it as a health issue with her and try to do things as couple that will help her get moving.


Thanks. We did used to do longs walks around town as low-impact exercise, something we could both do and she wouldn't have to worry about us moving at different paces (running together later on in the relationship has been tricky as she's struggling to keep up the pace she used to have). Perhaps getting back to long walks might be a good addition to the workout regimen.


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## onlysonny

ccpowerslave said:


> So for her she has done the best with exercise when she has a personal trainer appointment many times a week 3+ and also a goal like a particular hike or something like that. My wife has a strong mind kind of how you describe your partner and when she wants something she will do the work.
> 
> So if the relationship isn’t enough (without scorched earth), health isn’t enough, what other kind of things motivate her?


She has mentioned a number of times she wants to run a marathon in the next few years. She's not even looking at finishing it in the top echelon, just completing the distance. And she recognizes that this is quite a physical feat for even the most fit. I keep mentioning this to her as support, something specific to motivate her. But I wonder if she thinks she has more time than might actually be there to pull that feat off. But it does feel like something that she gets inspired by outside of general physical/emotional health.


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## sideways

onlysonny said:


> It's probably been a few years. She's never shied away from discussing her weight struggles, but you're right that she needs to make more concerted efforts to take action and get it under control (especially as we get older). And, of course, it seems to be one of the most difficult things to discuss in an intimate relationship. I keep trying to lead by example (best I can).


She needs to attack this (weight loss) as if it's a life or death project. 

Put a plan in place and follow it to the T.

Exercise is great but she needs to address her nutrition as well (what she's eating on a daily basis and how much)?

If she's as smart as you say she is than what's she waiting for?

Get all of the $hit food put of the house and start eating healthy. This is something you could do with her. She sounds incredible and thus why you married her. 

DON'T GIVE UP ON HER as this is something that can be turned around!!

Either in the morning or evening you could watch the baby and she could go walk for an hour. May be tough for her at first but do what she can each day and then the next day go a minute longer. Go until she can get up to an hour a day.

While she's walking she should be listening to positive info (motivating stuff). You could help her by cooking the healthy meals and having them packaged and ready for her to eat each day.

The biggest killer is SUGAR!!!
This needs to be eliminated all together. 

It's all about controlling your insulin levels.

You say she's open to discussing this issue. We'll ok let's have one more conversation together about it to let her know that we're in this together. We have a son and let's do whatever we can to be the best parents we can for him and that we're there with him for the long haul.

Let her know you're there to help and will help her every day. Show her things you're committed to doing:
*watching the baby each day so she can go walk
*watch the baby so she can lift weights each day
*you'll go Purchase some dumbbells for her to use at home
*you'll do the grocery shopping 
*you'll help her cook the meals
*you'll help her chart her progress
*you'll go for walks with her
*you'll lift with her
*you'll encourage every day
*you'll buy the vitamins she needs
*you'll help her make sure she's drinking enough water every day
*you'll help her with weekly rewards when she meets set goals
*you'll watch motivating shows with her
to help her stay on course

You need to go at this from a different direction. Not your lack of attraction to her as that's just going to destroy her confidence and motivation. 

She needs to do this for herself above for you and even your child.

Let her know that you are NOT going anywhere. 
Be committed to her!!
Make a commitment to yourself that you're going to see this through with her and then see how you feel once she's lost the weight and is in a great place.

If she had cancer would you (abandon her or not take this seriously? More importantly would she take this seriously?

Well this is a SERIOUS issue and needs to be attacked like her life depends on it.

There are SO many stories on YouTube that she could watch with people who were in her EXACT situation and how they transformed their lives.

It all started with a decision.

So you can sit down and have the discussion with her but after that it's going to be about taking action and no more talking!!


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## onlysonny

Diana7 said:


> You say you go to the gym several times a week. Can you offer
> to go less and look after the baby so she can go? If she doesn't like the gym maybe for a good walk or a swim? Is there anything you could do together if you can get a sitter? Or does she have a friend she could go with?
> 
> Also if you both agree to stop drinking that would help. Stop all deserts, sweets, cakes, buscuits etc. Dont have them in the house.Nor fizzy drinks.
> 
> She sounds like a lovely lady and great mum. It would be such a shame if you left them. It's so important for a tiny child to have it's parents together.
> 
> Maybe some good MC would help you both?


Actually, I think her finding a good workout mate on her end would be great idea. She has someone she's accountable to and it doesn't have to be me (I'm sure that's fraught as f*** these days as she's mentioned I'm the physically healthy one right now).

She does have a lot of great qualities outside of her fitness. She's smart and funny and perceptive and gives great talk.

Oi, these long term relationship things are hard


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## Fly With Me

First off just want to say you both sound like amazing people. And reaching out for help is the best thing you could have done. I really hope you find what you are looking for.

There will be something really simple that will be the motivation she needs. Until you find it nothing will change. I suspect setting an example won't do it and you will have to be more direct.

I don't know what it will be for her. It might be an emotional block or belief from childhood she could work through with a good counsellor/therapist/coach. It might be unmet needs she isn't consciously aware of that she is meeting through food or too much comfort/apathy. It might be an honest conversation (always an excellent, if hard, option) where you tell her everything you've just told us and she realises she loses the weight or loses you.

You can have it all and it would make the most sense to give her a chance to have it all with you since she ticks all your other boxes. Every woman has a crazy, sexy, romantic side of her as well as the excellent business woman, nurturing mother side.

For me I needed my husband to start being more dominant and less of a nice guy to draw the dormant desire for wild, sexy romance out of me and help me access the part of me that wants to make an effort to look good, exercise and take care of myself.

I also needed to understand men better. That men's need for beauty and hot sex is just as valid as women's need for affection and intimate conversations. Culture tell us the opposite.

I'm starting to think there is a tendency for men to get stuck in predominantly alpha or beta mode and for woman to get stuck in madonna or *****. But the truth is we all have access to all of it. It's just finding the right key to unlock that side of us. 

All the very best with it


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## onlysonny

Fly With Me said:


> First off just want to say you both sound like amazing people. And reaching out for help is the best thing you could have done. I really hope you find what you are looking for.
> 
> There will be something really simple that will be the motivation she needs. Until you find it nothing will change. I suspect setting an example won't do it and you will have to be more direct.
> 
> I don't know what it will be for her. It might be an emotional block or belief from childhood she could work through with a good counsellor/therapist/coach. It might be unmet needs she isn't consciously aware of that she is meeting through food or too much comfort/apathy. It might be an honest conversation (always an excellent, if hard, option) where you tell her everything you've just told us and she realises she loses the weight or loses you.
> 
> You can have it all and it would make the most sense to give her a chance to have it all with you since she ticks all your other boxes. Every woman has a crazy, sexy, romantic side of her as well as the excellent business woman, nurturing mother side.
> 
> For me I needed my husband to start being more dominant and less of a nice guy to draw the dormant desire for wild, sexy romance out of me and help me access the part of me that wants to make an effort to look good, exercise and take care of myself.
> 
> I also needed to understand men better. That men's need for beauty and hot sex is just as valid as women's need for affection and intimate conversations. Culture tell us the opposite.
> 
> I'm starting to think there is a tendency for men to get stuck in predominantly alpha or beta mode and for woman to get stuck in madonna or ***. But the truth is we all have access to all of it. It's just finding the right key to unlock that side of us.
> 
> All the very best with it


Thanks for that. I agree, we can all get too "binary" in our relationship dynamics. Especially men. I'm an artistic fellow and can be quite nuanced in my work and then turn around and look at my life in such black-and-white terms (often without realizing that's what I'm doing). I think men fall into that trap all the time.

Thanks again. I want to think that I've done all I can for the relationship. She's a remarkable lady in so many respects.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Diana7 said:


> You say you go to the gym several times a week. Can you offer
> to go less and look after the baby so she can go? If she doesn't like the gym maybe for a good walk or a swim? Is there anything you could do together if you can get a sitter? Or does she have a friend she could go with?
> 
> Also if you both agree to stop drinking that would help. Stop all deserts, sweets, cakes, buscuits etc. Dont have them in the house.Nor fizzy drinks.
> 
> She sounds like a lovely lady and great mum. It would be such a shame if you left them. It's so important for a tiny child to have it's parents together.
> 
> Maybe some good MC would help you both?


This question deserves an answer.

Does she have sufficient time where you're with your child so she can go?


----------



## onlysonny

lifeistooshort said:


> This question deserves an answer.
> 
> Does she have sufficient time where you're with your child so she can go?


Good question that, yes, deserves an answer. I think we could find time for her to get to the gym or for a walk/run while I watch the kid. There's been some talk of that, but then she gets home and has little motivation to do anything. I've been working remotely at home and I have a set of weights in my study, so I will admit it has been easier for me to maintain my workout regimen through this COVID-19 mess.

I don't want to be bullish, but I could be more active in prompting her to take advantage of time when she can get out for a workout while I play babysitter.


----------



## NTA

ccpowerslave said:


> *I mean if she weighed 145 she knows she’s fat and she knows she doesn’t have to be fat. So being fat is basically saying **** it. I mean I have sympathy for it because I have been there myself.*
> 
> It sounds like you have already floated the idea of separating and if that didn’t really kickstart a serious weight loss effort then she seems pretty far along the **** it path.
> 
> The motivation obviously has to come from inside herself, she has to want something more than that next cheeseburger.


That is not fat. Do the math for the BMI. What would matter is how the weight is distributed.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

As someone who was thin in the first half of her years and relentlessly gaining weight in the last half and has tried and succeeded in losing many pounds over and over again only to regain them while still starving, all I can tell you is when people talk about all the health problems you can get, truth is the thought of starving for the rest of your life to stay thin is more unpleasant than most health problems you can get. And that's what it takes for women who naturally gain weight, forced starvation and ever-increasing exercise that you don't have time for or stamina for or joints for.

It also becomes impossible to exercise enough once you start having any arthritis. My feet went first early on before I was even gaining weight, hips by the time I was early 50s. Then a fall trashed both of my knees. Now I also have a torn rotator cuff from a bone spur, so I am down to one good limb. 

There's not a lot I can do, so I'm not about to give up food, which is one of the only things left I can still do. And I would definitely choose it over sex in my last half of life.

Starving to keep somebody happy in bed would be very depressing. Having someone unhappy with her because of it is only going to tear her down. 

If having sex with a thin woman is your Number 1 priority, then just get out of the relationship as peacefully as you can so you can co-parent rather than peck at her about her weight. 

She sounds like she's perfectly capable of taking care of herself. Good luck.


----------



## coquille

onlysonny said:


> Thanks for your candor. And thanks for validating my concerns. I do care for her a great deal, but I have struggled with some of this and often feel unsure how to communicate health concerns to her as opposed to just the sexual component of the relationship.


I think at this point you need to communicate these thoughts exactly like sideways worded them. She needs to see in clear terms the dire consequences of her weight excess, because obviously nice talk is not working. Sometimes we need to see the dangerous consequences of our actions (or inactions) to feel the motivation to take action and change. You might want to add that you don't intend to spend the rest of your life as a nurse for her. I know this sounds harsh, but it is the truth, right? Once she realizes that her lack of action is consequential on her child and husband, she might start working on losing weight.

Another thing you might do to help her is the food intake at home. Start with yourself and restrict the food intake to healthy choices and smaller quantities. You might want to be in charge of your family meals at home. Food intake accounts for 80% of our weight. Exercise for 20%, so focus also on the quality and quantity of what you guys eat and drink.


----------



## Blondilocks

Watching what she stuffs in her mouth is going to get her faster results than working out. Get the diet under control. She doesn't have to starve - just choose lower calorie foods. Substitute water or tea for the booze. If she weighs 260, have her shoot for 2200-2400 calories and reduce the number of calories as she loses. That factors in a 200 calories cheat for her because a lot of people underestimate calories in salad dressing and such.

She didn't gain the weight overnight and she won't be losing it overnight.

Remember, she was already fat when she got pregnant so I don't understand why you are complaining, now.


----------



## ccpowerslave

NTA said:


> That is not fat. Do the math for the BMI. What would matter is how the weight is distributed.


What I said was, if she had weighed 145 and she’s now 260 then she’s fully aware she’s fat. Or are you saying 5’5” 260 for a woman is not fat? I am a man and a foot taller than that and weigh 30 lbs less and my BMI is still in the slightly overweight category.

Some people have always been fat as far back as they can remember. This is a relatively recent change for her so she’s certainly aware of a different outcome.


----------



## pastasauce79

What has made her gain weight? Was she taking any fertility meds? Steroids? How long?

My husband gained over 50 pounds in 30 days thanks to Prednisone. It has taken him over 5 years to lose 20 of those pounds. It hasn't helped he likes to eat junk (chips, cookies, candy) and beer.

I understand people gain weight due to medical conditions. My husband is 6' and weights about 180 lbs. I'm ok with this. I know he's got a medical condition and one of the treatments for his condition is steroids. However, I'm someone who doesn't like overweight or obese people because they don't care about what they eat.

My husband made the decision to stop drinking soda. He needed to make that decision on his own. I can't force him to lose weight. You can't force people to change, they have to change on their own.

Have you guys really talked about her weight? About how it can affect her health? What type of foods is she eating? Is she a compulsive eater due to stress? Has she always been overweight?


----------



## Diana7

onlysonny said:


> Thanks. We did used to do longs walks around town as low-impact exercise, something we could both do and she wouldn't have to worry about us moving at different paces (running together later on in the relationship has been tricky as she's struggling to keep up the pace she used to have). Perhaps getting back to long walks might be a good addition to the workout regimen.


Yes, and easy to take baby as well.


----------



## ccpowerslave

OP one good trick if you’re going to walk with her is to wear a weighted vest (if you want to burn more calories). I sometimes throw on a 25 or 50lb weight vest for walking with my wife, it will help slow you down and also burn more for you.


----------



## NTA

ccpowerslave said:


> What I said was, if she had weighed 145 and she’s now 260 then she’s fully aware she’s fat. Or are you saying 5’5” 260 for a woman is not fat? I am a man and a foot taller than that and weigh 30 lbs less and my BMI is still in the slightly overweight category.
> 
> Some people have always been fat as far back as they can remember. This is a relatively recent change for her so she’s certainly aware of a different outcome.


The way it was written, it sounded as if you thought 5'5" and 145 pounds represented someone who was fat. I'm around those dimensions and my oncologist said I should think about gaining some weight.


----------



## hamadryad

Common topic.....

All I am going to say is coercing her, threatening her, coaching her, whatever....will likely be an exercise in futility...

They know they are obese....They don't need any reminder....

*Until they themselves decide "it's time", then all efforts will bring no (or extremely limited) results...*

Be supportive and show good habits yourself is about all you can do....It may eventually lead you to another woman...looks like you are already considering it...

I will add another thing, and down the river mentioned it....Some women get heavy just thinking about food...For them to be thin, the lifestyle would be just so restrictive that even you, me, or maybe everyone in this thread....couldn't do it....I knew a woman like this...She was like your wife....and managed to lose 125 lbs..It was an amazing feat...But she had to live basically like a concentration camp prisoner....800-1000 cals a day...That's a snack for me...If she ate a slice of pizza, every ounce of what she ate went right to fat on her body....Not only did she have to maintain this crazy regimen, she also was doing 2 hours of cardio a day...

When she had enough of it, and couldn't do it anymore, it took less than a few months to put all the weight right back on...

All I am saying, if this is a big issue or a deal breaker,. then you may be confronted with a problem that doesn't really have a practical solution...


----------



## NTA

Has she seen any recent photos of herself. My father really needed to lose weight. He finally did so when he saw this photo of himself in which he looked like a big buffoon with one of those diabetes type 2 bellies. He admitted he had to change his eating habits. He already had a stationary bike but I rarely saw him use it until he lost sufficient weight.


----------



## ccpowerslave

NTA said:


> The way it was written, it sounded as if you thought 5'5" and 145 pounds represented someone who was fat. I'm around those dimensions and my oncologist said I should think about gaining some weight.


Gotcha. Yeah that makes sense.


----------



## lifeistooshort

onlysonny said:


> Good question that, yes, deserves an answer. I think we could find time for her to get to the gym or for a walk/run while I watch the kid. There's been some talk of that, but then she gets home and has little motivation to do anything. I've been working remotely at home and I have a set of weights in my study, so I will admit it has been easier for me to maintain my workout regimen through this COVID-19 mess.
> 
> I don't want to be bullish, but I could be more active in prompting her to take advantage of time when she can get out for a workout while I play babysitter.


That's a tough one because you can't nag someone into fitness. You're not her father or trainer. I've been running for 32 years since middle school and I also cycle 130 miles a week. I do it because I want to, but it is time consuming which is why I asked. 

But my kids are grown. I just wanted to make sure that you weren't leaving most of the child care to her while you went to the gym and then complained about her not going, and it sounds like that isn't the case.

I've done thousands of races and often do finish in the top echelon even in my 40's, and I've never understood the whole couch to marathon thing. It puts tremendous stress on the body (I've done 8). 

Why not find a 5k and go with her? Maybe you could help her find a running club with a women's group, then she'll have friends that will expect her to be there. It's going to be hard for her to start because she's a big girl, but friends will help and encourage her.

I ran with my friend this morning and even after decades of running it was still much faster then when I go alone, and we yak the entire time.


----------



## ccpowerslave

lifeistooshort said:


> couch to marathon


Agreed, that is madness.


----------



## Livvie

OP said she has a thyroid issue going on she's getting treatment for.


----------



## sokillme

You need to ask her why your attraction to her is unimportant to her. Also, why her long term health and the risk of you losing your wife because of it is unimportant to her as well. Why the chances of her kids losing their mother are unimportant.

Now you need to do it in a nice way but she has made commitments and when someone allows themselves to get so obese they are abandoning them. This more then getting fat, it's about not recognizing her responsibility.

Again you can say this in a nice way, but you need to say it none the less.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

hamadryad said:


> Common topic.....
> 
> All I am going to say is coercing her, threatening her, coaching her, whatever....will likely be an exercise in futility...
> 
> They know they are obese....They don't need any reminder....
> 
> *Until they themselves decide "it's time", then all efforts will bring no (or extremely limited) results...*
> 
> Be supportive and show good habits yourself is about all you can do....It may eventually lead you to another woman...looks like you are already considering it...
> 
> I will add another thing, and down the river mentioned it....Some women get heavy just thinking about food...For them to be thin, the lifestyle would be just so restrictive that even you, me, or maybe everyone in this thread....couldn't do it....I knew a woman like this...She was like your wife....and managed to lose 125 lbs..It was an amazing feat...But she had to live basically like a concentration camp prisoner....800-1000 cals a day...That's a snack for me...If she ate a slice of pizza, every ounce of what she ate went right to fat on her body....Not only did she have to maintain this crazy regimen, she also was doing 2 hours of cardio a day...
> 
> When she had enough of it, and couldn't do it anymore, it took less than a few months to put all the weight right back on...
> 
> All I am saying, if this is a big issue or a deal breaker,. then you may be confronted with a problem that doesn't really have a practical solution...


That's exactly right. It is starvation for a lot of women to lose weight, and can't keep that up. I used an incredible amount of discipline to lose 70-100 pounds about six times, but that depends on being able to constantly up the exercise, and once you get old and broken, you can't do it. And I reached a point the last time after 80 pounds when I couldn't get to my 100-lb goal no matter what. Even on that few calories and heavy exercise, my body would react by gaining weight. I've certainly tried non-starvation diets, and I can lose about 30 pounds that way and that's all. For those doomed ones, it takes starvation and physical activity ever increasing. Not everyone is like that. A year into a diet, I would be doing two-mile walks twice a day plus a short gym workout or an hour of water aerobics. You can't keep that up and you can't keep upping that if you're supporting yourself. I was working long hours at home at that time, very long hours, but at least I was at home and had flexibility enough to be able to take 40 minutes per walk or an hour and a half out for gym or water aerobics. 

Doesn't matter. You can't keep up the pace and it's going to come back on whether you do or not. 

I hope this woman isn't as hard to lose weight as some, but not too many people can lose 80. 

I told one doctor that as a child, I grew up in the country and ran everywhere and was active just all the time, and he said that was probably what it would take to not put on weight since that's what my body got used to at that point. But one year in early 50s, I worked on a car lot and was on the move a lot, and was also dieting, but I still gained but very slowly.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

sokillme said:


> You need to ask her why your attraction to her is unimportant to her. Also, why her long term health and the risk of you losing your wife because of it is unimportant the her. Why the chances of her kids losing their mother are unimportant.
> 
> Now you need to do it in a nice way but she has made commitments and when someone allows themselves to get so obese they are abandoning them. This more then getting fat, it's about not recognizing her responsibility.
> 
> Again you can say this in a nice way, but you need to say it none the less.


There is no nice way. It is just going to make her feel bad about herself. You can make your feelings known once and then it's up to them, and it's simply not always possible -- probably not usually possible unless all they have to lose is 20 lbs.


----------



## ccpowerslave

It sucks for women, sorry ladies! I feel sad watching my wife eat a tiny dinner that for me would be a snack and I ask, “Did you get enough?” she says yes, then I crush all the rest of the food and still lose weight. 

Then again as @DownByTheRiver says I am spending 8-10 hours a week working out. 

If I got hurt to where I couldn’t really do it I’d probably pull a “my dad” which is eat a ton of food anyway but low calorie stuff. It’s also possible that I wouldn’t be as hungry (lol).


----------



## hamadryad

DownByTheRiver said:


> *There is no nice way. It is just going to make her feel bad about herself. *You can make your feelings known once and then it's up to them, and it's simply not always possible -- probably not usually possible unless all they have to lose is 20 lbs.



Agree....It's dropping a bomb....They may fully be aware, but no woman wants to hear that....

The funny thing is for most guys it's the opposite...While I generally don't do it, I know guys that will tell other guys that they are fat as hell and should lose some weight....Guys laugh it off...I guess all the pressure that gets put on women for their appearance and body make it a touchy subject...


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> It sucks for women, sorry ladies! I feel sad watching my wife eat a tiny dinner that for me would be a snack and I ask, “Did you get enough?” she says yes, then I crush all the rest of the food and still lose weight.
> 
> Then again as @DownByTheRiver says I am spending 8-10 hours a week working out.
> 
> If I got hurt to where I couldn’t really do it I’d probably pull a “my dad” which is eat a ton of food anyway but low calorie stuff. It’s also possible that I wouldn’t be as hungry (lol).


Yes, it's true you wouldn't be as hungry if you weren't working out as much, but as long as you enjoy it, do it. They say the more muscle mass, the less your body stores fat, but I haven't seen evidence of that on women. Women just have more fat cells, period. There are some who don't have to worry about it though. They are very lucky.


----------



## suburbanmom

ccpowerslave said:


> OP one good trick if you’re going to walk with her is to wear a weighted vest (if you want to burn more calories). I sometimes throw on a 25 or 50lb weight vest for walking with my wife, it will help slow you down and also burn more for you.


A slight tweak on this idea -- since you have a toddler--how about putting the baby in a carrier or backpack (on you) and taking a long family walk several times a week?

Seriously, I think you should really give it a lot of thought before you act on this. She sounds great, and between covid (she managing a business during covid) and thyroid issues and a baby, that's a lot to deal with in what's really not, in the grand scheme of things, a very long time at all. If you leave her, my prediction is that she ends up getting in shape and remarried to someone awesome fairly quickly. Would you be ok with that?


----------



## ccpowerslave

hamadryad said:


> While I generally don't do it, I know guys that will tell other guys that they are fat as hell and should lose some weight....Guys laugh it off.


I tell my friends if they look fat and vice versa. Goes like this:

“You look fat, why?”
“Because I drink every day.”
“Don’t. How about you pick a day and then abstain the rest of the days?”
“That sounds bad.”
“Enjoy being fat then tubby. I guess Willy did escape in Free Willy because I’m talking to him now.” <cue endless fat jokes and trash talk>

Fat shaming can work wonders with guys at least.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

hamadryad said:


> Agree....It's dropping a bomb....They may fully be aware, but no woman wants to hear that....
> 
> The funny thing is for most guys it's the opposite...While I generally don't do it, I know guys that will tell other guys that they are fat as hell and should lose some weight....Guys laugh it off...I guess all the pressure that gets put on women for their appearance and body make it a touchy subject...


It's more hurtful coming from men, because you know why they mainly care and so it's just hearing they aren't attracted to you anymore, and sometimes that's the end because sometimes you didn't realize that that was the only reason they were with you, attraction, so you would get your feelings hurt because it's like finding out there is no real love if they'll leave you over being fat or lack of sex and you wonder what you ever saw in them and how you imagined there was more there.

I never dated fat because I would never want to deal with all that.


----------



## DudeInProgress

It’s your job to lead the dynamic in your relationship. If you want a more sexual/romantic/passionate dynamic, you need to create that. 

You need to be playful/flirty/fun/dominant with her. Treat her more like the woman you want/expect her to be and less like a domestic partner (recognizing the realities of raising children can’t be entirely ignored).
Yes, you actually need to game your wife a little bit if you want to keep things interesting so she’ll respond to you with passion and desire.

As to her weight gain, clearly she just doesn’t care enough to do anything about it. The two of you sound smart enough to understand (or research) that a symbolic, once a week trip to the gym/trainer will do very little for weight loss. 
For women, working out will help tone but does very little for weight loss. Weight loss is almost entirely a matter of diet/nutrition. If she actually wants to lose weight, she needs to cut out sugar, reduce/minimize carbs and manage reasonable and balanced caloric intake.

You can’t make her lose weight, she needs to do it because either 1. she wants to, or 2. she fears negative outcomes if she doesn’t. 
Don’t do it in a douchy way, but you can influence this if she actually values and wants to keep you.

Step 1- get out of NYC and join the free world, it’s nice out here.


----------



## heartsbeating

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's more hurtful coming from men, because you know why they mainly care and so it's just hearing they aren't attracted to you anymore, and sometimes that's the end because sometimes you didn't realize that that was the only reason they were with you, attraction, so you would get your feelings hurt because it's like finding out there is no real love if they'll leave you over being fat or lack of sex and you wonder what you ever saw in them and how you imagined there was more there.
> 
> I never dated fat because I would never want to deal with all that.


Flip-side is that it would probably be more hurtful in the long run to get the wake-up call when he’s heading out the door, rather than having the conversation that @sokillme suggested. Actually for both sides. Then she has the opportunity to figure out where she’s at within herself and make changes - or not.

Physical attraction is typically part of relationships. Also the actions we take or don’t take form part of that attraction for a spouse. I think what sokillme suggested is the way to go.


----------



## DudeInProgress

onlysonny said:


> She's about 5' 5" and 260 lbs. (ballpark).


Wow, I should have read further before my first post. 
She needs to lose 120lbs dude. That is not just unattractive, it’s seriously unhealthy. 
She needs treatment since clearly there is something pathological going on to allow herself to get to twice her ideal body weight.


----------



## Livvie

DudeInProgress said:


> Wow, I should have read further before my first post.
> She needs to lose 120lbs dude. That is not just unattractive, it’s seriously unhealthy.
> She needs treatment since clearly there is something pathological going on to allow herself to get to twice her ideal body weight.


She's currently being treated for a (real) thyroid issue. Why aren't people discussing more than they are how that could be a very important factor re her current weight?


----------



## ccpowerslave

Livvie said:


> She's currently being treated for a (real) thyroid issue. Why aren't people discussing more than they are how that could be a very important factor re her current weight?


That would be great. I have never actually knowingly met or encountered someone who gained weight due to a thyroid problem. If it’s as simple as find the right drug cocktail and then the weight melts off that would be awesome.


----------



## DudeInProgress

onlysonny said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. I recently talked to a woman at one of our local pubs who struggled with similar weight fluctuations and she recommended fasting as well in combination with the keto diet (she's 45 and looks great; she jokingly said she was tired of looking in the mirror and seeing her "John Travolta" chin). I'm not as familiar with the stats on how people fare on that diet, but the fasting is something I hear quite frequently.


My wife lost almost 20lbs in about a month, maybe two on keto. 145 to less than 130. She’s also 5’5 ish so she didn’t have a ton to lose, but it works - and you don’t have to starve yourself.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ccpowerslave said:


> I tell my friends if they look fat and vice versa. Goes like this:
> 
> “You look fat, why?”
> “Because I drink every day.”
> “Don’t. How about you pick a day and then abstain the rest of the days?”
> “That sounds bad.”
> “Enjoy being fat then tubby. I guess Willy did escape in Free Willy because I’m talking to him now.” <cue endless fat jokes and trash talk>
> 
> Fat shaming can work wonders with guys at least.


All of a sudden I'm picturing Curb Your Enthusiasm where Susue regularly calls her husband Jeff a fat **** and he never bats an eye 😅

But no...you can't do that with women.

Fear not though....we know when we're fat.


----------



## frusdil

So, you're off to the gym 5 times a week and bar hopping, while your wife is home with the baby after work? How is she supposed to get to the gym? Does she get to go out to bars too?

The two of you should be tag teaming child care after work, so that you both get to go out.


----------



## Enigma32

I wish you luck, brother. I have never seen a man win this particular battle before. I've seen ladies lose weight AFTER the breakup but never seen a woman lose weight for her relationship.


----------



## onlysonny

suburbanmom said:


> A slight tweak on this idea -- since you have a toddler--how about putting the baby in a carrier or backpack (on you) and taking a long family walk several times a week?
> 
> Seriously, I think you should really give it a lot of thought before you act on this. She sounds great, and between covid (she managing a business during covid) and thyroid issues and a baby, that's a lot to deal with in what's really not, in the grand scheme of things, a very long time at all. If you leave her, my prediction is that she ends up getting in shape and remarried to someone awesome fairly quickly. Would you be ok with that?


Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, thinking on all this seriously as I suspect a post-breakup flurry of fitness could very well be her scenario.




DudeInProgress said:


> My wife lost almost 20lbs in about a month, maybe two on keto. 145 to less than 130. She’s also 5’5 ish so she didn’t have a ton to lose, but it works - and you don’t have to starve yourself.


Thanks for the suggestion. And, you're right (from a previous probably stopped "dating" my partner a while back (we both got so involved in our own things).


suburbanmom said:


> A slight tweak on this idea -- since you have a toddler--how about putting the baby in a carrier or backpack (on you) and taking a long family walk several times a week?
> 
> Seriously, I think you should really give it a lot of thought before you act on this. She sounds great, and between covid (she managing a business during covid) and thyroid issues and a baby, that's a lot to deal with in what's really not, in the grand scheme of things, a very long time at all. If you leave her, my prediction is that she ends up getting in shape and remarried to someone awesome fairly quickly. Would you be ok with that?


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

I'm 5ft 6 and 115-120lbs and can't imagine the strain on my body with 240lbs. That's another whole me, another whole person's weight for me to carry. I also suffer many health conditions and I'm surprised I can still keep myself at a healthy weight, and I rarely exercise. I do cycling when I can though and do go on walks. Have just bought myself a work training bench to try and become stronger and may even help some of my health conditions. Saying that when I was going through a lot of stress I went down to an unhealthy 100lbs and even a few lbs under 100lbs. I was very poorly at the time and wouldn't advise stress as a way to lose weight. I am now back at a healthy 115lbs. What she needs is a female personal trainer who can work with her a few times a week to start, then up to 5-6 times a week. The personal trainer will work with your wife, give her a healthy food plan, tell her what to avoid and do fitness and workouts with her. She can also have a personal trainer to go running with her. If her aim is to run a marathon she needs to work bloody hard. A personal trainer will help your wife reach that goal. I know a guy 385lbs almost completely bedridden and ended getting a personal trainer as a last resort. He saved his life. Got him slow jogging to start, simple warm up exercises, walking with a heavy backpack, cycling, and then eventually got him into the gym to work out. He changed his food plan and ate so healthy, drank plenty of water and by the time he finished with his personal trainer he got down to 200lbs, lost 185lbs and looks amazing for it. If your wife is not happy with her weight, and knows she is at risk help her find a good personal trainer who will be the best option, but she has to be committed to it and not work against her trainer. One of the worst things to do though is keep reminding your wife she is overweight, she will get depressed. She needs to do this for herself. Good luck.

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark


YNWA


----------



## NTA

sokillme said:


> You need to ask her why your attraction to her is unimportant to her. Also, why her long term health and the risk of you losing your wife because of it is unimportant to her as well. Why the chances of her kids losing their mother are unimportant.
> 
> Now you need to do it in a nice way but she has made commitments and when someone allows themselves to get so obese they are abandoning them. This more then getting fat, it's about not recognizing her responsibility.
> 
> Again you can say this in a nice way, but you need to say it none the less.


This makes me contemplate how much one's life is compromised by carrying so much weight:
1. plane seats. It would get on my nerves to be dealt with seat belt fascists in the cabin, but hey if you're fat, don't worry about arm rests and seat belts.
2. cinema seats
3. bathroom stalls, especially in Europe, I would find myself in a stall that I couldn't even turn around. in....... perish the thought.
4. clothing, I marvel at the fact that many stores still hold on to displaying traditionally sized as a large part of their inventory. And a lot designers and manufacturers who don't budge either,
5. I read sometimes that an obese person is denied surgery. 
6. all the chronic conditions brought on by excess weight......

There's probably more.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> That would be great. I have never actually knowingly met or encountered someone who gained weight due to a thyroid problem. If it’s as simple as find the right drug cocktail and then the weight melts off that would be awesome.


I spontaneously lost 12 lb when I went on heart pills, gradually. I lost a few pounds when I went on metformin before that because the doctor said my body is handling food more efficiently. All sorts of drugs can cause weight gain. But that doesn't mean it's the main reason.


----------



## MJJEAN

onlysonny said:


> Thanks for the thought. Yes, I know she's been working with her endocrinologist regarding some serious thyroid issues that are not helping with the whole situation. But she's definitely being told to get the weight under control by her doctors.


Without her thyroid being properly regulated she won't lose weight. Period. Thyroid regulates metabolism. From heartrate to energy levels to mood the thyroid is involved in it all. Until her thyroid dose is regulated she's not going to make progress.

If she has additional hormone issues it will be even harder.

That all said, training once a week isn't going to cut it. She needs to watch her diet and exercise daily. Between age and her health conditions she will have to work twice as hard. I'm 46 and I'm in the process as we speak also due to a thyroid condition. It's hard. First, you know you're fighting your body. Second, you watch everyone else doing the same things see progress while you are barely holding on and seeing much less rapid change.

What worked best for me was a home gym. Used pro gym equipment is available from online sites, durable, has features, and is usually given a once over and a warranty, so we got one of the LifeFitness ellipticals we used and liked at the gym we didn't go to enough. Then we found a Roman chair. A few months later came an amazing Rogue flat bench and weight set. Then I remembered the feel of a rowing machine I had many, many, moons ago as a teen. I realized I missed rowing and DH got me a Concept 2. A couple weeks ago I got my gym flag. Black background with white lettering. "Nobody Cares. Work Harder." I find it inspirational.

Being a SAH I'd have to chop up my day to exercise. Going to the gym meant having to stop wherever I was in my daily list of chores and chore add-ons, get prepped, drive to the gym, work out while thinking of the things I needed to still do, drive home, and continue my chores and other tasks. When I had kids it was even harder to go. I'd have to get the kid(s) ready, too, pack their bags with fresh supplies, haul them in and out of the car seat, and I'd have to work around their school and extracurricular schedules as they got older. I live where we have 4 distinct seasons and winter was an extra pain, so climate is also a factor. And God forbid someone get sick. I wouldn't be able to go for days since gym daycare doesn't let sick kids in.

Going to the gym under those circumstance wasn't something I looked forward to. It took up so much of my day it made my life more stressful. It wasn't me time or something I got any real benefit from. It was just another chore I could prioritize downward as "more important" things came up during the day, so I went sporadically, at best. When I did go my mind was on my chores and tasks, so I wasn't paying attention to form and using the correct muscles. I was going through the motions and not getting near as much out of the time as I could have been getting.

In contrast, having a home gym made it so much easier to do. I didn't have to cut up my day. Exercise didn't eat up near the time because I didn't have to get myself and kid(s) prepped, packed, and then into the car for the drive there and back. I could let the kid(s) do kid things and I could work out while dinner baked/simmered and a load of laundry washed. So, I wasn't worried about chores and tasks and could focus on doing the exercise correctly. Working out became a happier thing once it was easier to do and didn't add to my stress. With a gym at home I became much more consistent and finally make progress.

Your wife might make progress if she has equipment at home she can use when it works best for her without eating up too much of her time and causing extra stress.





ccpowerslave said:


> I have never actually knowingly met or encountered someone who gained weight due to a thyroid problem.


Hi! I've got Hashimoto's. Basically, my immune system is attacking my thyroid and my thyroid isn't producing enough hormone to properly regulate my metabolism.

I gained weight. My skin got dry. I was frequently constipated in that it took 30 min to have a poo. My long, glorious, thick hair started to thin a bit. I got hair growth on my chin and some on my lower belly. I had low energy. I was getting older and the symptoms crept up on me. I figured that's just the stuff that happens to you when you age. Then I started having heart palpitations regularly enough I had to wear a monitor at home for a couple weeks. For 2 years no one could figure out what the Hell was going on. I was told to exercise, diet, and lose 50 lbs. I tried and...nothing. Then I half-arsed it for a couple years until my insurance changed.

When my insurance changed I went to a new doctor. I was at my 1st appointment and she recognized the symptoms and checked my T3, T4, and TSH. Sure enough, my thyroid was underperforming. A 2nd round of tests told us why. Then we started working on replacement hormone dose until we found what worked about 6 months in. After that, I started yearly checks unless I start to feel like crud and call in to have my levels checked. Over the last five years I have had to have my dose increased 3x. I also have to get an ultrasound yearly to check for signs of cancer as I am now high risk for thyroid cancer.

Once I got regulated, skin improved, hair improved, pooping happened like it's supposed to, my energy levels and mood vastly improved, and the heart palpitations stopped.



ccpowerslave said:


> If it’s as simple as find the right drug cocktail and then the weight melts off that would be awesome.


Yeah, that's not how it works. Once you gain the weight due to the thyroid not properly regulating metabolism you have to find the right dose of replacement hormone for significant weight loss to be possible. Once you're there the weight comes off over time directly proportionate to effort just like it would for everyone else.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Sorry to hear that @MJJEAN but this popped out!



MJJEAN said:


> A few months later came an amazing Rogue flat bench and weight set.


Their stuff is great. Our home gym is kitted out with it.

Chopping up your workout is something I also do. Sometimes I won’t have time to do part of my workout during the day due to meetings so I will do it kind of while I am cooking dinner. I defer sit-ups and do them in sets of 50 and then check on the food between sets.


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## Divinely Favored

Cut carbs, cokes and processed sugars and the weight will decrease. Buy exercise machine from Wal-Mart for the house. Plate weights, cables and pulleys. Does not take any more room than a deep freeze. 

Look at Total Body Makeover. I lost 60# in 6 weeks on it and had crazy amount of energy. I ate soo much food i was almost dreading eating. Bur you have to fuel the 🔥. Just hated cooking soo much food on weekend so i did not have to during week. Told friend whos hubby is obese, he jumped in both feet and has lost around 80-90# so far.


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## Divinely Favored

NTA said:


> That is not fat. Do the math for the BMI. What would matter is how the weight is distributed.


Any way you distribute 260# for a 5'5" frame the BMI is off the chart.

She did weigh 145 and now is 260....fat?...no...obese? Yes.


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## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's more hurtful coming from men, because you know why they mainly care and so it's just hearing they aren't attracted to you anymore, and sometimes that's the end because sometimes you didn't realize that that was the only reason they were with you, attraction, so you would get your feelings hurt because it's like finding out there is no real love if they'll leave you over being fat or lack of sex and you wonder what you ever saw in them and how you imagined there was more there.
> 
> I never dated fat because I would never want to deal with all that.


That goes both directions.


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## Divinely Favored

She can get some resistance bands and learn toning exercises and build lean muscle. Those rubber bands will seriously kick your butt all the while thinking..this is nothing...you go overboard and you are feeling it tomorrow!


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## Marc878

You cannot fix this. Only she can do that.
From her stats she’s 100lbs + overweight. You don’t get that heavy from air.
I worked with people, men and women and you hear a lot of excuses. It’s a glandular condition but then you see them wolf down 2 double cheeseburgers for lunch then slyly head to the snack room and quietly eat a big candy bar or 2. Then it’s I really don’t eat that much. 🤣 Yet they can’t bend over to lace up their shoes.


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## hamadryad

Of course it's hard.....But don't forget the basics.....and these are things that anyone can do....no excuses....no gyms, no anything...

*Change your entire lifestyle.*..I do all of this stuff despite never having a weight problem in my entire life..

What does this mean? 

-Never take an elevator...always use the stairs...
-Park your car as far away from the door of the store....The added benefit is you will save your car of all the door dings and other crap...
-Take on home projects...Landscaping...repairs. etc...Don't always call someone in...do it yourself, you will reap the rewards of self gratification and achievement....and save a lot of money as well...
-If you don't have one already, consider getting a dog....If you have one already and only let him/her out to do their business, then start walking them instead....Dogs would rather walk anyway, then pee/crap in the yard..
-you can even do isometric movements while caught in traffic in your car or sitting at your desk...I keep a gripper in my car and use it constantly..

Many other aspects to consider....

Of course diet and exercise will still be needed for most, but when you start to implement these life changes then you will notice a big difference in effectiveness of your plan...


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Divinely Favored said:


> That goes both directions.


I think it applies more toward men because men have such a number one priority put on sex that so many of them will just quit a relationship because of it. It's not the number one priority for most women so that's why I do disagree with that although I won't say that it doesn't and can't happen.


----------



## uphillbattle

ccpowerslave said:


> That would be great. I have never actually knowingly met or encountered someone who gained weight due to a thyroid problem. If it’s as simple as find the right drug cocktail and then the weight melts off that would be awesome.


My mother had this problem. She gained over 100lbs. Got it treated and lost most of it. She lived a pretty healthy lifestyle and worked out consistently and it had changed nothing. The same went for my ex wife.


----------



## Al_Bundy

I think everyone has given great tips, problem is trying to get someone else to lose weight is like trying to steer a hurricane, it's going to go wherever it wants and on it's own time-frame. It sounds good to say do it for your kids or health but that is very rarely enough. It may take a medical condition that requires her to lose weight or else. It sounds like you are doing more than most people would to help.

For comparison, if she's around 260, The Rock is around 270. It's way past time to get this or that checked out, that's what you do when you gain 40 or 50lbs. This is well into the danger zone.


----------



## TXTrini

MJJEAN said:


> Without her thyroid being properly regulated she won't lose weight. Period. Thyroid regulates metabolism. From heartrate to energy levels to mood the thyroid is involved in it all. Until her thyroid dose is regulated she's not going to make progress.
> 
> If she has additional hormone issues it will be even harder.
> 
> That all said, training once a week isn't going to cut it. She needs to watch her diet and exercise daily. Between age and her health conditions she will have to work twice as hard. I'm 46 and I'm in the process as we speak also due to a thyroid condition. It's hard. First, you know you're fighting your body. Second, you watch everyone else doing the same things see progress while you are barely holding on and seeing much less rapid change.
> 
> What worked best for me was a home gym. Used pro gym equipment is available from online sites, durable, has features, and is usually given a once over and a warranty, so we got one of the LifeFitness ellipticals we used and liked at the gym we didn't go to enough. Then we found a Roman chair. A few months later came an amazing Rogue flat bench and weight set. Then I remembered the feel of a rowing machine I had many, many, moons ago as a teen. I realized I missed rowing and DH got me a Concept 2. A couple weeks ago I got my gym flag. Black background with white lettering. "Nobody Cares. Work Harder." I find it inspirational.
> 
> Being a SAH I'd have to chop up my day to exercise. Going to the gym meant having to stop wherever I was in my daily list of chores and chore add-ons, get prepped, drive to the gym, work out while thinking of the things I needed to still do, drive home, and continue my chores and other tasks. When I had kids it was even harder to go. I'd have to get the kid(s) ready, too, pack their bags with fresh supplies, haul them in and out of the car seat, and I'd have to work around their school and extracurricular schedules as they got older. I live where we have 4 distinct seasons and winter was an extra pain, so climate is also a factor. And God forbid someone get sick. I wouldn't be able to go for days since gym daycare doesn't let sick kids in.
> 
> Going to the gym under those circumstance wasn't something I looked forward to. It took up so much of my day it made my life more stressful. It wasn't me time or something I got any real benefit from. It was just another chore I could prioritize downward as "more important" things came up during the day, so I went sporadically, at best. When I did go my mind was on my chores and tasks, so I wasn't paying attention to form and using the correct muscles. I was going through the motions and not getting near as much out of the time as I could have been getting.
> 
> In contrast, having a home gym made it so much easier to do. I didn't have to cut up my day. Exercise didn't eat up near the time because I didn't have to get myself and kid(s) prepped, packed, and then into the car for the drive there and back. I could let the kid(s) do kid things and I could work out while dinner baked/simmered and a load of laundry washed. So, I wasn't worried about chores and tasks and could focus on doing the exercise correctly. Working out became a happier thing once it was easier to do and didn't add to my stress. With a gym at home I became much more consistent and finally make progress.
> 
> Your wife might make progress if she has equipment at home she can use when it works best for her without eating up too much of her time and causing extra stress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi! I've got Hashimoto's. Basically, my immune system is attacking my thyroid and my thyroid isn't producing enough hormone to properly regulate my metabolism.
> 
> I gained weight. My skin got dry. I was frequently constipated in that it took 30 min to have a poo. My long, glorious, thick hair started to thin a bit. I got hair growth on my chin and some on my lower belly. I had low energy. I was getting older and the symptoms crept up on me. I figured that's just the stuff that happens to you when you age. Then I started having heart palpitations regularly enough I had to wear a monitor at home for a couple weeks. For 2 years no one could figure out what the Hell was going on. I was told to exercise, diet, and lose 50 lbs. I tried and...nothing. Then I half-arsed it for a couple years until my insurance changed.
> 
> When my insurance changed I went to a new doctor. I was at my 1st appointment and she recognized the symptoms and checked my T3, T4, and TSH. Sure enough, my thyroid was underperforming. A 2nd round of tests told us why. Then we started working on replacement hormone dose until we found what worked about 6 months in. After that, I started yearly checks unless I start to feel like crud and call in to have my levels checked. Over the last five years I have had to have my dose increased 3x. I also have to get an ultrasound yearly to check for signs of cancer as I am now high risk for thyroid cancer.
> 
> Once I got regulated, skin improved, hair improved, pooping happened like it's supposed to, my energy levels and mood vastly improved, and the heart palpitations stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's not how it works. Once you gain the weight due to the thyroid not properly regulating metabolism you have to find the right dose of replacement hormone for significant weight loss to be possible. Once you're there the weight comes off over time directly proportionate to effort just like it would for everyone else.


Can I PM you? I've been struggling with mine for over 15yrs, still haven't got my optimal dose. I'd love to compare notes.


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think it applies more toward men because men have such a number one priority put on sex that so many of them will just quit a relationship because of it. It's not the number one priority for most women so that's why I do disagree with that although I won't say that it doesn't and can't happen.


The priority is the emotional connection from the intimacy. If it is not there she soon starts to feel life any other female member of your family. I am no where near as close to my sister or female cousins emotionally as my wife. If the physical intimacy is gone due to wifes actions or lack there of, my emotions will soon move her to the any other female family member. Many guys have to have physical intimacy, to feel close enough to think it is safe to open up and be vulnerable to the woman.

It is a vicious cycle if it is not balanced. If something goes sideways hopefully one will say calf rope and pull out of the death spiral in a relationship before it is destroyed. It really sux to be dependant on a wifes physical affections to feel like you are safe to show your emotions.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

IMO, that's being too d**k-centric..


----------



## BigDaddyNY

DownByTheRiver said:


> IMO, that's being too d**k-centric..


You should trademark that term.


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> IMO, that's being too d**k-centric..


It aint about the getting off. It is the connection. My wife gets far more from the physical aspect than i do.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Divinely Favored said:


> It aint about the getting off. It is the connection. My wife gets far more from the physical aspect than i do.


I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think it's healthy if that's the only way a man can feel close is all I'm saying. Also, I'm afraid that reasoning has become something of a spiel men are now using as another lever to get women to do whatever they want whenever they want in bed. To me, it's a red flag, at minimum, if a guy can't be close without it being sexual.


----------



## heartsbeating

Divinely Favored said:


> Any way you distribute 260# for a 5'5" frame the BMI is off the chart.
> 
> She did weigh 145 and now is 260....fat?...no...obese? Yes.


Eh just jumping in here. I think that @NTA was interpreting the other post by cc as though he was saying 145 was her knowing that she was fat and which was then questioned. Pretty sure at least, that that’s what happened with reading the other post. I know that I also read it that way initially and read it a second time (such dedication to TAM) to realize what he meant and which he’s since also explained to NTA.


----------



## heartsbeating

^ reading that back, does it make sense or does it read like some kind of riddle? I may have worded it strangely.


----------



## ccpowerslave

heartsbeating said:


> ^ reading that back, does it make sense or does it read like some kind of riddle? I may have worded it strangely.


It made sense to me 🤣.


----------



## MJJEAN

TXTrini said:


> Can I PM you? I've been struggling with mine for over 15yrs, still haven't got my optimal dose. I'd love to compare notes.


Sure!



DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think it's healthy if that's the only way a man can feel close is all I'm saying. Also, I'm afraid that reasoning has become something of a spiel men are now using as another lever to get women to do whatever they want whenever they want in bed. To me, it's a red flag, at minimum, if a guy can't be close without it being sexual.


There are various kinds of closeness. There is one you can only share with a romantic partner. If you aren't regularly sharing that closeness with your partner eventually you realize you're more or less just friends with extra steps. 

Sex releases pair bonding hormones. Without sex the effects of those hormones wane and the pair bond weakens. It's natural that a member of either gender would leave a relationship lacking in the sex and bonding department.


----------



## heartsbeating

^ Amen. I had wanted to address this but couldn’t find the words to do so. Can I get another coffee over here?

Eloquently put.


----------



## heartsbeating

ccpowerslave said:


> It made sense to me 🤣.


Given that I read your other post twice to get it I’m not sure if this is reassuring or not. 😛


----------



## DownByTheRiver

MJJEAN said:


> Sure!
> 
> 
> 
> There are various kinds of closeness. There is one you can only share with a romantic partner. If you aren't regularly sharing that closeness with your partner eventually you realize you're more or less just friends with extra steps.
> 
> Sex releases pair bonding hormones. Without sex the effects of those hormones wane and the pair bond weakens. It's natural that a member of either gender would leave a relationship lacking in the sex and bonding department.


If sex released any tangible pair bonding hormones, people would bond with the first and every subsequent person they slept with. Obviously, that it not true.


----------



## lifeistooshort

heartsbeating said:


> ^ Amen. I had wanted to address this but couldn’t find the words to do so. Can I get another coffee over here?
> 
> Eloquently put.


Agreed. I too feel bonding through sex, and I don't care if I orgasm. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't but every time is bonding if I otherwise enjoy his company.

The feel of skin to skin separates the relationship from all others.


----------



## heartsbeating

DownByTheRiver said:


> If sex released any tangible pair bonding hormones, people would bond with the first and every subsequent person they slept with. Obviously, that it not true.


Sex AND bonding. Intimacy of both the physical and emotional realms is bonding.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

heartsbeating said:


> Sex AND bonding. Intimacy of both the physical and emotional realms is bonding.


What has that got to do with hormones, though? If that were the case, they could put those in a pill and then where would we be? It would be like Doe in Heat for people. You'd both have those hormones going with everyone around you. I mean, there certainly isn't a dedicated hormone singular for just you and your partner, so wouldn't that leave you kind of vulnerable to falling in love with other people, walking around all juiced up on bonding hormones? Like maybe the guy next door just got juiced up on them last night with his wife and goes and walks the dog, and you got juiced up with them from Batman and go and walk the dog, and bam, there you are bonding with the guy with the yappy terrier because you're both drunk on looooove and sex.

If you're in love and your partner is in love, you're already bonded. Teenagers who've never had sex can be in love and bonded.


----------



## heartsbeating

I’m trying to understand your hypothetical but failing to really grasp it. In a long term healthy and loving relationship, for many people the expression of sexuality and closeness occurs with intimacy. And which can deepen with time and personal growth. Many have weathered the ups and downs of life together, and with mutual respect, attraction and commitment, then an expression of that closeness is through sexual, sensual, and emotional intimacy. That expression of closeness can occur through various ways. I don’t direct this next bit at you - I think it’s naive and foolish to take for granted and ignore the role that that can have in a relationship. It’s not reduced to putting body part A in body part B or C or wherever, at least not in the bat-cave. So if I’m ‘juiced up’ haha from interludes with Batman and keeping in mind all those other aspects of a relationship and how I feel about him and actually myself within our dynamic, I’m kept wanting more of the Batman juice 😆 …not some random.


----------



## Enigma32

DownByTheRiver said:


> If sex released any tangible pair bonding hormones, people would bond with the first and every subsequent person they slept with. Obviously, that it not true.


They have already studied this and found that there is a bond formed during sex but that bond becomes weaker with each new person you have sex with. Basically, you'll form a strong bond with the first person, but by the time you get to partner #237, you likely get nothing.


----------



## uphillbattle

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think it's healthy if that's the only way a man can feel close is all I'm saying. Also, I'm afraid that reasoning has become something of a spiel men are now using as another lever to get women to do whatever they want whenever they want in bed. To me, it's a red flag, at minimum, if a guy can't be close without it being sexual.


Why is this not healthy in your opinion?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Enigma32 said:


> They have already studied this and found that there is a bond formed during sex but that bond becomes weaker with each new person you have sex with. Basically, you'll form a strong bond with the first person, but by the time you get to partner #237, you likely get nothing.


Now, just how exactly did they measure that? If you're in love, you already have a bond. If you're not in love, sex does not give you a bond. And I can assure you what you said above about first and future is not true at all. I got no bond from the first person I had sex with, so my field research alone disproves that. Plus there is no way to measure that.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

uphillbattle said:


> Why is this not healthy in your opinion?


If a man can't bond without having had sex with a person? Are you kidding? He's messed up. I mean, it's not much of a bond if it just, poof, disappears, when there's a lag in sex, is it?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

heartsbeating said:


> I’m trying to understand your hypothetical but failing to really grasp it. In a long term healthy and loving relationship, for many people the expression of sexuality and closeness occurs with intimacy. And which can deepen with time and personal growth. Many have weathered the ups and downs of life together, and with mutual respect, attraction and commitment, then an expression of that closeness is through sexual, sensual, and emotional intimacy. That expression of closeness can occur through various ways. I don’t direct this next bit at you - I think it’s naive and foolish to take for granted and ignore the role that that can have in a relationship. It’s not reduced to putting body part A in body part B or C or wherever, at least not in the bat-cave. So if I’m ‘juiced up’ haha from interludes with Batman and keeping in mind all those other aspects of a relationship and how I feel about him and actually myself within our dynamic, I’m kept wanting more of the Batman juice 😆 …not some random.


Of course, the expression of sexuality and closeness occurs with intimacy. But it should also be occurring not during sex if it's genuine.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

DownByTheRiver said:


> If sex released any tangible pair bonding hormones, people would bond with the first and every subsequent person they slept with. Obviously, that it not true.


This has been studied quite a bit. Oxytocin levels increase after sex and other forms of intimacy and you body associates that hormone release with the person that caused it. It is the same hormone that reinforces the mother/infant bond, caused by cuddling. 

The bond resulting from the hormones isn't permanent. So if you stop having sex with someone the pair bond effect wanes. If you start having sex with someone else you will eventually bond with them. 

This would contribute to people leaving their H or W for an AP. When they are getting a bigger hit of oxytocin from the AP they form a stronger bond with them.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Enigma32 said:


> They have already studied this and found that there is a bond formed during sex but that bond becomes weaker with each new person you have sex with. Basically, you'll form a strong bond with the first person, but by the time you get to partner #237, you likely get nothing.


That may very well be true. It kind of makes sense that there could be something almost like you build up a tolerance to the oxytocin, would like to learn more. The question is where is the line at which you could no longer pair bond with someone? This would add a whole new dimension to the argument about partner count and whether it matters or not. Too high and the person can never be expected to truly bond with you.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

DownByTheRiver said:


> If a man can't bond without having had sex with a person? Are you kidding? He's messed up. I mean, it's not much of a bond if it just, poof, disappears, when there's a lag in sex, is it?


Things other than sex release the hormones too, other forms of closeness and intimacy. So no, sex isn't the only thing that reinforces the bond, but often when sex is lacking all forms of intimacy are lacking.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

BigDaddyNY said:


> This has been studied quite a bit. Oxytocin levels increase after sex and other forms of intimacy and you body associates that hormone release with the person that caused it. It is the same hormone that reinforces the mother/infant bond, caused by cuddling.
> 
> The bond resulting from the hormones isn't permanent. So if you stop having sex with someone the pair bond effect wanes. If you start having sex with someone else you will eventually bond with them.
> 
> This would contribute to people leaving their H or W for an AP. When they are getting a bigger hit of oxytocin from the AP they form a stronger bond with them.


I'm sorry, but my personal experience, that simply isn't true. Oxytocin is a negligible influence. People can bond without sex and having sex does not make someone bond. The point is, if you are having sex with someone you're in love with, you're ALREADY bonded even before you had sex, so it's irrelevant! It's redundant. If anything is creating oxytocin, it's just being in love and already being bonded. It's not sex, or victims would bond with their rapists, especially if they kept them locked up in the back of a white van for a few days and kept at it. Right??? 

One quote from _Live Science: 
[during intercourse] "Men get a huge jolt of testosterone, which suppresses oxytocin, and that's nature's way of saying, 'Leave the nest and go sire offspring somewhere else. ' "_

Teens not having sex can totally bond without ever having had sex at all and do so all the time. You don't need oxytocin to bond. You aren't going to get oxytocin from anyone you're not already in love with either, so again, it's redundant. It's not about sex. It's about already having a bond and being into the person. 

When that first round of oxytocin nonsense circulated, every guy on earth who wasn't getting laid started thinking they should just start touching any woman and she would have to fall in love and bond with him because of it. What nonsense! 

Sharing food can release oxytocin; warm temperatures can release oxytocin. 

There's also studies about oxytocin and your pets. If I don't pet my dog for a week, I don't love her any less and the bond isn't broken on either end.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

BigDaddyNY said:


> Things other than sex release the hormones too, other forms of closeness and intimacy. So no, sex isn't the only thing that reinforces the bond, but often when sex is lacking all forms of intimacy are lacking.


You don't need sex to bond. Men just prefer sex to anything else, so some of them won't stay bonded without it, nothing to do with oxytocin.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

DownByTheRiver said:


> You don't need sex to bond. Men just prefer sex to anything else, so some of them won't stay bonded without it, nothing to do with oxytocin.


I love many forms of intimacy, but I can't deny that sex is at the top of the list.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

This article that the studies are flawed. 






How Can We Measure Human Oxytocin Levels?


How Can We Measure Human Oxytocin Levels?




www.discovermagazine.com


----------



## DownByTheRiver

BigDaddyNY said:


> I love many forms of intimacy, but I can't deny that sex is at the top of the list.


I'll take a dopamine high over oxytocin any day, and I can get that from the salsa at Herrera's!


----------



## uphillbattle

DownByTheRiver said:


> If a man can't bond without having had sex with a person? Are you kidding? He's messed up. I mean, it's not much of a bond if it just, poof, disappears, when there's a lag in sex, is it?


Ok so does it decline when your spouse doesn't speak to you because they don't want to? Of course it does. But ofcourse you can empathize because you feel that way.

I'm sorry, you are unable to grasp how someone else feels or what they need. That doesn't mean it's not real.

And yes most anyone can form a bond with a person they have never had sex with. That doesn't mean the bond is the same. That would be like being married to your sister. Im afraid I didn't grow up in that part of the country.

EDITED kinda double posted


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't think it's healthy if that's the only way a man can feel close is all I'm saying. Also, I'm afraid that reasoning has become something of a spiel men are now using as another lever to get women to do whatever they want whenever they want in bed. To me, it's a red flag, at minimum, if a guy can't be close without it being sexual.


You act like it is a choice. Everyone is not as blessed and perfect as you believe they should be. That is like saying a woman not being in the mood when she is upset or stressed out is just a choice .


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Probably not anything therapy wouldn't cure.


----------



## uphillbattle

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'll take a dopamine high over oxytocin any day, and I can get that from the salsa at Herrera's!


Nobody's saying that this isn't true for you. How you feel isn't the same for all others


----------



## Divinely Favored

heartsbeating said:


> I’m trying to understand your hypothetical but failing to really grasp it. In a long term healthy and loving relationship, for many people the expression of sexuality and closeness occurs with intimacy. And which can deepen with time and personal growth. Many have weathered the ups and downs of life together, and with mutual respect, attraction and commitment, then an expression of that closeness is through sexual, sensual, and emotional intimacy. That expression of closeness can occur through various ways. I don’t direct this next bit at you - I think it’s naive and foolish to take for granted and ignore the role that that can have in a relationship. It’s not reduced to putting body part A in body part B or C or wherever, at least not in the bat-cave. So if I’m ‘juiced up’ haha from interludes with Batman and keeping in mind all those other aspects of a relationship and how I feel about him and actually myself within our dynamic, I’m kept wanting more of the Batman juice 😆 …not some random.


Her way or the highway


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'll take a dopamine high over oxytocin any day, and I can get that from the salsa at Herrera's!


I had a really good drug related comment for this!!! Hey guys use your imagination and i bet you come up with same idea.


----------



## Livvie

I just want some chocolate ice cream. Does that increase a bond?


----------



## heartsbeating

I don’t feel these recent posts, including my own, are particularly constructive for the OP, therefore I’m bailing out of any more posts debating whether or how important acts of sexual intimacy are in terms of bonding; anecdotally or otherwise.

This is my attempt to guide the focus back to the OP. And hope he may return.


----------



## bobsmith

Jeez, I could not make it through 7 pages. I saw enough in the first. Regardless if some here think I am a heartless bastard that hates women, I think the OP is the one being pathetic here. 13yrs, woman had many struggles to even have a child, she finally has one, and who knows what hormone changes are going on, and you want to bale at 15mo from birth? Even I am not that cold. 

Dude, she is aware she has weight, and it is probably more than just her diet. Maybe consider working WITH her, instead of going back to the grocery store to gawk at the new, fresh produce......

I think you are being insanely selfish against someone that just had your kid.


----------



## Talker67

you had a kid with this woman, why not marry her?


----------



## Al_Bundy

OP is more than justified in his feelings of not being attracted to her. She didn't just gain 15lbs and he turned into a jerk. If her problem was alcohol instead of weight people would be telling him to bail. Dude come on here basically saying my wife is in the same weight class as Dwayne Johnson and I'm losing attraction and a lot of the responses are about how bad of a person he is. GTFO with that nonsense.


----------



## In Absentia

well, he can stay until his boy is 18 and then leave. The OP will be 60... plenty of skinny attractive women for him to pick from...


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> well, he can stay until his boy is 18 and then leave. The OP will be 60... plenty of skinny attractive women for him to pick from...


Um. Are you saying there are no slender attractive women in that age range? 

Sure there are.


----------



## bobsmith

Al_Bundy said:


> OP is more than justified in his feelings of not being attracted to her. She didn't just gain 15lbs and he turned into a jerk. If her problem was alcohol instead of weight people would be telling him to bail. Dude come on here basically saying my wife is in the same weight class as Dwayne Johnson and I'm losing attraction and a lot of the responses are about how bad of a person he is. GTFO with that nonsense.


All I am saying is if the kid is only 15mo, that is a little early to step out. I am not saying he needs to stick around for the long haul if she can't get things under control.


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> Um. Are you saying there are no slender attractive women in that age range?
> 
> Sure there are.


yes, there are... but don't they usually go for the younger model?


----------



## MJJEAN

DownByTheRiver said:


> If sex released any tangible pair bonding hormones, people would bond with the first and every subsequent person they slept with. Obviously, that it not true.


Sex releases multiple feel good hormones including Oxytocin. It doesn't work like imprinting does on a newly hatched bird! It is a cumulative effect. Person A touches and stimulates you, your body releases the proper hormones, you associate Person A with that feeling, bond occurs.

Interesting Atlantic article I read a while ago 





Study: Oxytocin ('the Love Hormone') Makes Men in Relationships Want to Stay Away From Other Women


And it apparently comes in a nasal spray.




www.theatlantic.com







DownByTheRiver said:


> If a man can't bond without having had sex with a person? Are you kidding? He's messed up. I mean, it's not much of a bond if it just, poof, disappears, when there's a lag in sex, is it?


Of course men can bond with someone without sex! Men bond to their friends and family, for example. But we're not talking about that kind of bond. We're talking about a romantic relationship mating type bond. It's more than emotional. Biological factors are in play. And it isn't in biology's best interest for people to stay in sexless relationships because without sex the species doesn't perpetuate. So yes, without reinforcement of the pair bond it will weaken and eventually fade. And that is nature working as intended.


----------



## Al_Bundy

bobsmith said:


> All I am saying is if the kid is only 15mo, that is a little early to step out. I am not saying he needs to stick around for the long haul if she can't get things under control.


Don't disagree with that. And it sounds like it's not just "baby weight". So there was probably time to bail before the kid when she was up 70lbs or so. 

Also, he can bail on her without bailing on the kid......... if she cooperates which is another story.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

uphillbattle said:


> Nobody's saying that this isn't true for you. How you feel isn't the same for all others


Oh I thought everyone was saying oxytocin was a proven scientific fact that applied to everybody.


MJJEAN said:


> Sex releases multiple feel good hormones including Oxytocin. It doesn't work like imprinting does on a newly hatched bird! It is a cumulative effect. Person A touches and stimulates you, your body releases the proper hormones, you associate Person A with that feeling, bond occurs.
> 
> Interesting Atlantic article I read a while ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Study: Oxytocin ('the Love Hormone') Makes Men in Relationships Want to Stay Away From Other Women
> 
> 
> And it apparently comes in a nasal spray.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men can bond with someone without sex! Men bond to their friends and family, for example. But we're not talking about that kind of bond. We're talking about a romantic relationship mating type bond. It's more than emotional. Biological factors are in play. And it isn't in biology's best interest for people to stay in sexless relationships because without sex the species doesn't perpetuate. So yes, without reinforcement of the pair bond it will weaken and eventually fade. And that is nature working as intended.


You're already bonded by the time you let someone touch your body repeatedly and enough to release oxytocin. If you weren't, your body would not release oxytocin, and it barely does anyway. It's mainly significant in mother/baby relationships. Men don't need oxytocin to want to have sex, so no worries about perpetuating the species.

And let's not forget that 50 percent of marriages of people who certainly did their share of having sex and would, by the oxytocin theory people on this site are touting, be "pair bonded" end in divorce. So again, I maintain that if it's relevant at all, it's negligible influence and can't override more way important factors to keep a marriage going. So it's nothing to guilt your wife about to get her to have sex when you want it. Testosterone suppresses oxytocin. It's obvious to me and many women that men who sleep with you are mainly NOT pair-bonding.

Add to that the percentage of cheaters, and I don't see how the pair-bonding oxytocin theory (now known to be based on faulty science) holds up much at all. 

A couple of animal studies I read said it doesn't create love bonding but a false sense of trust. But again, another study says they've not been measuring the oxytocin from the right sources in the body to be at all relevant factual information anyway.


----------



## Gomezaddams51

I can relate to your pain. I went through that with my first wife back in the early 1970's. I was 23 and she was 16 when we married. She was cute, sexy and awesome. Our marriage started off terrible because neither of us knew anything about sex and were both virgins. Our first wedding night was not good and our sex life over the years was terrible. I had no clue how to satisfy her her and thought that just the act of coitus was all the satisfaction she needed. She hated sex but over 18 years we had 4 children. And with each child she gained at least 100 pounds. She was at least 400 pounds and gaining. She went into a deep depression and stopped doing any housework or trying to diet. I was in the Air Force so I had to keep my weight down and exercised and dieted. Our sex life stopped because I could no longer stand the sight of her and seeing her naked made me want to vomit.

I never cheated but man I wanted to and finally after 18 years I could no longer stand being in a sexless marriage. I divorced her when I was 42. I vowed to never date or marry a woman who might gain weight ever again. My second wife has gained weight and she could lose a few pounds but she still looks great at 65 I can understand you because I lived it. I hope things work out for you.


----------



## Gomezaddams51

bobsmith said:


> Jeez, I could not make it through 7 pages. I saw enough in the first. Regardless if some here think I am a heartless bastard that hates women, I think the OP is the one being pathetic here. 13yrs, woman had many struggles to even have a child, she finally has one, and who knows what hormone changes are going on, and you want to bale at 15mo from birth? Even I am not that cold.
> 
> Dude, she is aware she has weight, and it is probably more than just her diet. Maybe consider working WITH her, instead of going back to the grocery store to gawk at the new, fresh produce......
> 
> I think you are being insanely selfish against someone that just had your kid.


Are you married to someone who makes you want to vomit if you see her naked? Trust me, I can relate to the OP. I hope he does bail unlike me who waited for 10 miserable years in a sexless marriage. I tolerated the first 8, and since we had 4 kids I bit the bullet and stayed for the next 10. I wish to hell I had bailed at 8.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Gomezaddams51 said:


> I vowed to never date or marry a woman who might gain weight ever again.


How did you determine this?


----------



## ElwoodPDowd

ccpowerslave said:


> How did you determine this?


I put an upper weight limit on women I dated of 50Kg (105lbs).
Mine has gained weight in the past 10 years and is now nearly 57Kg (120lbs).

But I think you need to limit the starting point.


----------



## Livvie

ElwoodPDowd said:


> I put an upper weight limit on women I dated of 50Kg (105lbs).
> Mine has gained weight in the past 10 years and is now nearly 57Kg (120lbs).
> 
> But I think you need to limit the starting point.


Wtf.


----------



## Gomezaddams51

ccpowerslave said:


> How did you determine this?


Look at her mother...that pretty much tells her future


----------



## Rowan

ElwoodPDowd said:


> I put an upper weight limit on women I dated of 50Kg (105lbs).
> Mine has gained weight in the past 10 years and is now nearly 57Kg (120lbs).
> 
> But I think you need to limit the starting point.


The last time I weighed 105, I was in middle school.


----------



## ElwoodPDowd

Rowan said:


> The last time I weighed 105, I was in middle school.


I'd say around 50% of the women in their 30s I've encountered in Asia are 50Kg or less.
Women over 60Kg at any age are extremely unusual.


----------



## LisaDiane

Gomezaddams51 said:


> Look at her mother...that pretty much tells her future


NOT TRUE AT ALL. I have 4 sisters, and we are all different than my mother (who was overweight most of our lives). Two of us are thinner than our mom, two are heavier than she ever was, and one is about the same size (big), but she is actually very in shape and works out every day and plays volleyball and softball for fun.

This is a ridiculous theory...do all bald men have sons who end up bald...? How about height...??? My mom is 5'8"...but I'm 5'0". Her eyes are brown and her hair is black - my eyes are green and my hair was blond and has darkened to light brown.
My daughter is 5'7", and is very slim with blue eyes and dark brown hair.

Looking at someone's parent is no guarantee of ANYTHING.


----------



## ccpowerslave

LisaDiane said:


> Looking at someone's parent is no guarantee of ANYTHING.


Maybe it’s the parent +105lb weight limit? /s


----------



## Al_Bundy

I don't think it's crazy to look at her family in general and see if obesity is a common theme. Same with her friends.


----------



## LisaDiane

Al_Bundy said:


> I don't think it's crazy to look at her family in general and see if obesity is a common theme. Same with her friends.


That's not at all what he said, and I haven't seen it being a factor with almost any woman I know. Cling to it all you want if it makes you feel like you have a way to dodge a bullet, but it really means nothing.


----------



## Al_Bundy

LisaDiane said:


> That's not at all what he said, and I haven't seen it being a factor with almost any woman I know. Cling to it all you want if it makes you feel like you have a way to dodge a bullet, but it really means nothing.


I've heard the mother thing before and I've found it to be worthless, too many other factors. What does work is the concept of you are the sum of the people you spend the most time with. Spend time with 5 broke people, you will be the 6th. Hang out with 5 people who are overweight, guess what the future is looking like........bigly......yuge!..

As far as dodging the bullet it's not about dodging. It's about having boundaries for things you aren't willing to live with. You can vet to improve your chances of a certain outcome but you can't predict the future, all you can do is be prepared to react.


----------



## LisaDiane

onlysonny said:


> Good question that, yes, deserves an answer. I think we could find time for her to get to the gym or for a walk/run while I watch the kid. There's been some talk of that, but then she gets home and has little motivation to do anything. I've been working remotely at home and I have a set of weights in my study, so I will admit it has been easier for me to maintain my workout regimen through this COVID-19 mess.
> 
> I don't want to be bullish, but I could be more active in prompting her to take advantage of time when she can get out for a workout while I play babysitter.


I think it's very important for her to start with something quick to do, not too challenging, and not too painful, so that she can develop the habit and then start to look forward to it. I always tell women to start with yoga - there are free, 10 minute practices you can find on YouTube that get you moving and stretching your body with no equipment needed. Have her commit to 10-15 minutes every day for a month, and then reassess at the end of that.

I hate most exercising because it's so boring, but I LOVE yoga and do it every day! I also love how my body feels because I stretch and strengthen my muscles, and yoga is so easy to modify based on your fitness level and what your goals are!!

Besides the health considerations of her weight, she is going to develop some pretty severe PAIN in her joints and feet (and back) as she gets older, and it can become debilitating. She really NEEDS to do something new to get herself to a different outcome. 

Also, I have a non-functioning thyroid, and it doesn't really make that much of a difference with metabolism. I believe what happened is that from the stress and hard work she is doing, her body is craving simple carbs (for energy) so that is what she eats more of. 

And fat creates Estrogen in our bodies...which causes us to store more fat. So the more fat we gain, the less we will burn. My guess is that her body is in an Estrogen Dominant loop that has taken over her metabolism and that she has to break out of in order to start to lose weight and feel better.

I don't know if I would suggest fasting at this point - that might be too much of a challenge and make success difficult for her. I would say cut out all simple carbs and start doing yoga once a day. Have her try it for a set period of time, and then reassess at the end of that.
What her goal should be is a LIFESTYLE change, not a "diet". THINK healthier and make better choices so she will BE healthier and feel good!


----------



## LisaDiane

Al_Bundy said:


> I've heard the mother thing before and I've found it to be worthless, too many other factors. What does work is the concept of you are the sum of the people you spend the most time with. Spend time with 5 broke people, you will be the 6th. Hang out with 5 people who are overweight, guess what the future is looking like........bigly......yuge!


Lol!! What if you hang out with 5 broke people and you are the richest of the broke people?? Or the thinnest of the fat people...? Won't that make you feel GOOD about yourself, even thought you are actually broke and fat??? Lol!


----------



## LisaDiane

Al_Bundy said:


> I've heard the mother thing before and I've found it to be worthless, too many other factors. What does work is the concept of you are the sum of the people you spend the most time with. Spend time with 5 broke people, you will be the 6th. Hang out with 5 people who are overweight, guess what the future is looking like........bigly......yuge!..
> 
> As far as dodging the bullet it's not about dodging. It's about having boundaries for things you aren't willing to live with. You can vet to improve your chances of a certain outcome but you can't predict the future, all you can do is be prepared to react.


😮 YOU edited your post after I read it...are you trying to sneak that extra part in so I won't argue with you??? 

But seriously, my point was that there is no quick, easy guarantee for knowing how a woman (OR man) will physically look based on their parents. That is NOT "vetting"...that's just fooling yourself. I am about 70lbs lighter than my mother (and 8" smaller), and I have two sisters who are 20lbs heavier. 

That's my only point. I don't blame people for having boundaries, and my greatest fear has always been having a body that becomes something unattractive and undesired by my partner...so believe me, if any future partner of mine finds himself in that position at any point, he will have my blessing to LEAVE and find someone better.

Those are MY boundaries.


----------



## Gomezaddams51

LisaDiane said:


> NOT TRUE AT ALL. I have 4 sisters, and we are all different than my mother (who was overweight most of our lives). Two of us are thinner than our mom, two are heavier than she ever was, and one is about the same size (big), but she is actually very in shape and works out every day and plays volleyball and softball for fun.
> 
> This is a ridiculous theory...do all bald men have sons who end up bald...? How about height...??? My mom is 5'8"...but I'm 5'0". Her eyes are brown and her hair is black - my eyes are green and my hair was blond and has darkened to light brown.
> My daughter is 5'7", and is very slim with blue eyes and dark brown hair.
> 
> Looking at someone's parent is no guarantee of ANYTHING.


I found out to late about my first wife. I met her mother the day we got married...and she was very heavy.. So it might not be true in all cases but in some it is right on. My wife was thin then too... I never thought she would turn out to look worse than her mother but she did.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Rowan said:


> The last time I weighed 105, I was in middle school.


Maybe he only dates elves.


----------



## hamadryad

105 is nuts...but in many parts of the world, the women(and men) are quite small....

That being said, the size of the average woman in the US has really gotten crazy...Last time I saw a stat, I think the average was somewhere around 170#...I think that was before the pandemic, it's probably higher now....I know men have gotten a lot heavier during the same period, but for some reason it seems to be less of an issue for guys...I guess the fact that guys have larger frames helps hide it? I dunno...But this trend has really gotten bad and has led to a host of medical issues, even at a young age, that a lot of previous generations didn't have to deal with....

Anyone who thinks genetics doesn't play a role in how people look is just denying basic science...Sure, a child(or adult) may not necessarily carry a particular trait of a parent, but the potential is certainly there...The reason why champion racehorses and other animals with desirable physical traits are prized and selectively bred for sometimes millions of dollars tells you all you need to know...And both desirable and undesirable traits are equally shared...

If you want to get an idea how someone may or may not look, just realize that there are 3 basic body types every human is born with, each has its specific characteristics and tendencies....Endomorph, ectomorph, and mesomorph...I don't want to get into a discussion about that here, but if it interests you, check it out....


----------



## minimalME

hamadryad said:


> If you want to get an idea how someone may or may not look, just realize that there are 3 basic body types every human is born with, each has its specific characteristics and tendencies....*Endomorph, ectomorph, and mesomorph*...I don't want to get into a discussion about that here, but if it interests you, check it out....


I have 3 daughters, and each of them is a different body type. They're textbook.

My youngest daughter is the one who's naturally heavier, and she told me the last time we visited (within the last few months), that when she was in college, she had an eating disorder where she only allowed herself to eat twice a week. 

Twice a week!!!

That's the level of shame she felt about not having a body that others see as acceptable. 

Every time I think about it, it breaks my heart. And having her in my life has helped me to be more compassionate about others who have bigger bodies.


----------



## Livvie

minimalME said:


> I have 3 daughters, and each of them is a different body type. They're textbook.
> 
> My youngest daughter is the one who's naturally heavier, and she told me the last time we visited (within the last few months), that when she was in college, she had an eating disorder where she only allowed herself to eat twice a week.
> 
> Twice a week!!!
> 
> That's the level of shame she felt about not having a body that others see as acceptable.
> 
> Every time I think about it, it breaks my heart. And having her in my life has helped me to be more compassionate about others who have bigger bodies.


This is my observation as well. 

My best friend has 3 daughters. Only one has a body type even close to hers.

I'm similar to my mom but I take after my dad's side much much much more. 

There's no guarantee or even set probability a woman is going to take after her mother in body type.

Or a man and his dad, either. My 2 sons have completely different body types.


----------



## hamadryad

minimalME said:


> I have 3 daughters, and each of them is a different body type. They're textbook.
> 
> My youngest daughter is the one who's naturally heavier, and she told me the last time we visited (within the last few months), that when she was in college, she had an eating disorder where she only allowed herself to eat twice a week.
> 
> Twice a week!!!
> 
> That's the level of shame she felt about not having a body that others see as acceptable.
> 
> Every time I think about it, it breaks my heart. And having her in my life has helped me to be more compassionate about others who have bigger bodies.


It is both sad and concerning......My thoughts go out to you.

But you do have to wonder....How did we get to this point?

My dad was an avid photographer....He had taken tons of photos back in the 60's of family and friends...If you go through the photos, the one thing that stands out is that very few people were heavy....I can even remember that of all the women in the family(some blood, some married in) you couldn't find any of them that were larger than a size 4/6 or heavier than....maybe 140 for the heaviest of all...I don't recall any of them on starvation diets, either.

Acceptance is great and certainly helps those around us better cope, but not all of this is for vanity's sake and such...It is actually quite unhealthy to be hauling around 40+++ pounds of extra fat on a body...Especially in these times of Covid...its the one most important risk factor, yet for some reason people are more fixated on masks and distancing, etc..I guess that's just less work.?


----------



## minimalME

hamadryad said:


> But you do have to wonder....How did we get to this point?


I agree with what you've written, and this is an image from the late 1800s. I've posted a different, yet similar, one before, and the majority of people were on the thinner side.

My ex-husband is 6'4", and when he was young, he was also heavy, but then grew taller and the weight fell off. When we were married, weight was never an issue for either one of us, so I thought perhaps she was grow out of it. But she hasn't.


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## Blondilocks

minimalME said:


> I agree with what you've written, and this is an image from the late 1800s. I've posted a different, yet similar, one before, and the majority of people were on the thinner side.
> 
> My ex-husband is 6'4", and when he was young, he was also heavy, but then grew taller and the weight fell off. When we were married, weight was never an issue for either one of us, so I thought perhaps she was grow out of it. But she hasn't.
> 
> View attachment 78255


One reason people were so thin back then is because the food was so bad in the cities that it made people sick. No refrigeration meant the meat literally stunk.

Images of farmers and their wives from back then look a little more hefty.

In the 1960s, a woman weighing 140 would most likely have been wearing a size 12-14. Manufacturers have fudged on the sizing for a few decades, now. Marilyn Monroe was reputed to wear a size 14 blouse which would fit a size 6-8 today.


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## minimalME

And it's also interesting how various people carry the same weight differently.


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## LisaDiane

I also believe THESE are very telling from the 1950s...


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## Divinely Favored

Rowan said:


> The last time I weighed 105, I was in middle school.


I was 105 at 9 yrs old. My 1st deer weighed same as i did. At 14 i was 5'11 185. At 25 when married i "stood 6'05" weighed 245, Big John" wife was 5'04" 120 and was killin me! In those tight Cruel Girl jeans and blue eyes.


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## lifeistooshort

I look nothing like my mom and have little of her body type.....always took after my father.

I was by far the heaviest body type of the 3 girls in my family, but guess who is by far the thinnest in middle age?

I learned early on that I had to be careful and I found cross country in middle school and turned out to be a pretty good runner. But even there I was bigger then the other runners.

You have to keep this in perspective though...I was 5'4 and 116 lbs with thick leg muscles. Hell, one of the girls whose ass I kicked in the 800m called me a fat girl, and I suppose by emaciated runner standards I was bigger 

But whatever, because those habits followed me into middle age and I'm now 47, 2 grown kids, 125 lbs, and an endurance athlete. My skinny sisters ate crap because they could and are now both heavy. And I'm not starving myself.

Take that for what it's worth.


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