# WHY can't he make a decision??



## TIME

I never expected to meet anyone like him, but we met. We tried to deny our attraction because we were both married, but it did not work. I was already headed to separation knowing divorce was close to follow. He clearly expressed his unhappiness which preceded our meeting by about 6 to 8 years. I specifically asked him if he was going to continue to stick out his unhappy marriage or make changes and move on. He said he would not stay in the marriage no matter what but he was not sure how or when to make the move. It is now 2 years since we met. He still is saying the same thing, he does not know how or when to make the decision. He says it is very complicated (he is quite wealthy, and he is the man who raised his wifes children since they were small so he considers them his own and he is afraid that relationship would change, even though they are all adults now). 

Each time I talk to him I ask if he is still unhappy and his answer is always yes. I ask him how he faces each day unhappy and he says it is just what he does. He admits he is very confused. He also says it is scary going from something he knows (even though unhappy) to something unknown.

We have distanced ourselves from each other almost totally. He has told me that he loves me and that he knows we would be awesome together if he was free to be with me. He says I have shown him the caring, loving, and kindness that he has never received from a woman and that I make him feel things he never felt inside before. I am in love with him for the person he is inside. I hate that he has let this decision rule his life. I feel really badly inside that he chooses to remain in an unhappy marriage wanting to be happy, all the while he knows he can be but does not make the move.

WHY is he not making a decision to be happy? 

MEN: Will he ever make a decision?


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## StrongEnough

Are you divorced now?


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## 827Aug

I know where you are coming from. My spouse of 22 years can't make his mind up either. He wasn't happy with the marriage, so he moved out 11 months ago. He doesn't know if he wants a divorce. I have learned to just ignore all of his stuff thanks to many months of individual counseling. At least his problem has been identified and I have been educated. All I've got to say is I hope you aren't dealing with the "Peter Pan Syndrome"! Since my estranged husband lives in "Never Never Land", he isn't capable of making important decisions. Hopefully your love interest isn't living there!


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## TIME

StrongEnough said:


> Are you divorced now?


Yes, I have been divorced for a year now. I feel like myself again after being in a marriage that was basically a friendship with forced sex (I did it, but I was totally not there emotionally). I felt it was the right thing to do so he could find someone to love him the way a husband deserves to be loved, and I could not give him that kind of love.

The passion and caring I feel for this other man is what I would absolutely call a "once in a lifetime" connection. It is rare, and I have seen it in a couple far and few between, but that is the connection we have. That is why it is so hard to sit back and wonder how he stays in that unhappy place. Even with me out of the equation, I do not understand how someone lives that way.


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## StrongEnough

Do you honestly think he will ever leave her? Or do you think he enjoys having both of you?


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## Malibu17

It's entirely possible that the man you're in love with may be concerned about leaving his "bad" marriage, because of the unknown, including what a hefty divorce settlement may do to his business or personal financial situation.

My wife and I have been separated for nearly 1 year now, after being married 21 years and having a lot of counseling. I'm between a rock and a hard place in this economic downturn, because I'm concerned, if I do file, what consequences it will have on my business. It may cause me to lay off more staff, etc... At the same time, I'm tired of waiting and told my estranged wife that she could file if she wants too. So far she hasn't, but may in the near future. If not, I will in time, if things continue as they are between us.

We both deserve to move on and start a new life with someone else.


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## wonder

if he hasn't left by now, i doubt he ever will. i think he's happy w/ both of you, i could be wrong though.


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## TIME

Malibu17 said:


> It's entirely possible that the man you're in love with may be concerned about leaving his "bad" marriage, because of the unknown, including what a hefty divorce settlement may do to his business or personal financial situation.
> 
> My wife and I have been separated for nearly 1 year now, after being married 21 years and having a lot of counseling. I'm between a rock and a hard place in this economic downturn, because I'm concerned, if I do file, what consequences it will have on my business. It may cause me to lay off more staff, etc... At the same time, I'm tired of waiting and told my estranged wife that she could file if she wants too. So far she hasn't, but may in the near future. If not, I will in time, if things continue as they are between us.
> 
> We both deserve to move on and start a new life with someone else.


You DO both deserve to be happy and find someone who will love you the way you deserve to be loved... we all do. I was shocked to find out how many people just stay married out of fear and comfortable rut. When I would tell people why I divorced, they said I was brave for following my heart and they wished they had the same courage. I did not expect to hear that from so many people!

Why do you think she does not file and move on? What are you waiting for? Is it all related to financial decisions? I know the man I love has enough to set up his (ex)wife for the rest of her life and still live a comfy life of his own. I almost get the sense that even though he knows what we can have together is totally different, that in his mind he may just be thinking "different woman ending up in the same situation" He has never said this or even hinted, but I do wonder if his fears will keep him right where he is.

He is not happy at home and fills his time with work, individual hobbies, and visiting his adult children and brothers. He tells me he wants to see me everyday, but explains that he can't see me until he gets things straightened out first. I keep thinking "2 years since we met, 8 years before that, will he ever make a move?"!!!! Totally confused here.


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## StrongEnough

I would probably make the decision yourself and not wait on him to make it. You can either choose to wait around for him and miss out on other opportunities. Or you can begin dating and see if you find someone else who is able to give you their whole heart!


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## TIME

StrongEnough said:


> I would probably make the decision yourself and not wait on him to make it. You can either choose to wait around for him and miss out on other opportunities. Or you can begin dating and see if you find someone else who is able to give you their whole heart!


Well I am not really sitting around waiting on him. I have not kept myself from living or putting myself out there. I work full time, I am a full time student, I am a single mother of 2, have a house and yard to take care of.... I really have no free time to make it simple 

I am completely taken by this man. I will not deny that my heart longs for him constantly and that I hope each time my telephone rings it will be him. But I have not boxed myself up and set myself on a shelf waiting for him to come open me up. My life goes on without him, I just want it to go on with him


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## StrongEnough

TIME said:


> Well I am not really sitting around waiting on him. I have not kept myself from living or putting myself out there. I work full time, I am a full time student, I am a single mother of 2, have a house and yard to take care of.... I really have no free time to make it simple
> 
> I am completely taken by this man. I will not deny that my heart longs for him constantly and that I hope each time my telephone rings it will be him. But I have not boxed myself up and set myself on a shelf waiting for him to come open me up. My life goes on without him, I just want it to go on with him


It does sound like you are very busy! Props to you for working full time and going to school as well! 

I understand that you are completely taken by him, but do you think that continuing to communicate with him is making it easier or harder on you. If you stopped talking to him, would you stop thinking so much about him or more?


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## TIME

StrongEnough said:


> It does sound like you are very busy! Props to you for working full time and going to school as well!
> 
> I understand that you are completely taken by him, but do you think that continuing to communicate with him is making it easier or harder on you. If you stopped talking to him, would you stop thinking so much about him or more?


Thanks for the props! It is difficult but I am hoping it will pay off! Nothing like starting life over at 39!!

When we first started talking we wrote to each other daily and several times a day (email). We got to know each other in a way many people do not get the chance to know each other "from the inside out". We shared our hearts, our dreams, our likes and dislikes, we even shared what we felt were our personal problem areas, we laughed and accepted each other totally knowing all these things. As time went on and the reality of the extent of our connection became too much to handle while still being married to another, he realized he had to close one door before opening another with me or it would never work out. So we slowly (and painfully) distanced ourselves from each other. Now we may speak to each other once a month and it is the most difficult thing I have ever experienced. I try not to think about him but find myself thinking about him from the moment I wake until the moment I wake the next day. I hate it because it hurts me, but I can't get him out of my mind. I spent 14 years pretending to be happy because I thought it was the right thing to do and finally had the guts to get real and end it only to find myself having to face each day with a smile when I am totally sad inside. So I am still living a lie.


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## Malibu17

TIME said:


> Why do you think she does not file and move on? What are you waiting for? Is it all related to financial decisions?


She hasn't filed and moved on because she's having a very hard time letting go and saying "goodbye." She says she doesn't want a divorce and would like for us to get back together, but as I've told her many times, we've really tried to make it work with counseling, books, seminars, etc...but to no avail. The issues are what they are and our relationship doesn't work. We've basically stuck it out for our 2 kids (ages 16 & 18) and now they're ready for us to divorce and move on.

I honestly would've filed several months ago, but (right or wrong), financial reasons have held me back. I know it's going to come to a head before long and the divorce will be filed by one of us. It's just a matter of time. I'm tired of being alone.


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## TIME

Malibu17 said:


> She hasn't filed and moved on because she's having a very hard time letting go and saying "goodbye." She says she doesn't want a divorce and would like for us to get back together, but as I've told her many times, we've really tried to make it work with counseling, books, seminars, etc...but to no avail. The issues are what they are and our relationship doesn't work. We've basically stuck it out for our 2 kids (ages 16 & 18) and now they're ready for us to divorce and move on.
> 
> I honestly would've filed several months ago, but (right or wrong), financial reasons have held me back. I know it's going to come to a head before long and the divorce will be filed by one of us. It's just a matter of time. I'm tired of being alone.


Malibu, after reading the details my story and being in a relationship that sounds similar to his, do you think after all this time he will ever make a change? Are there any other questions I could answer for you that would give you a better insight to answer this question? Thank you


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## Malibu17

Time:

I can fully understand what you're going through. I'm sure the man you love may want to get out of his bad marriage and begin a new life with you. However, for whatever reason(s) he's hesitant to do so. 

There's a woman that is interested in me as well and I believe, hoping & waiting that my wife and I will get a divorce, so we can begin a relationship. Unfortunately, it's complicated that's why I haven't filed yet. But as I said before, it's unfair to each of us to hang on and not pursue a life with someone else, if we're not getting back together.


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## jlondon

Malibu17 said:


> Time:
> There's a woman that is interested in me as well and I believe, hoping & waiting that my wife and I will get a divorce, so we can begin a relationship. Unfortunately, it's complicated that's why I haven't filed yet.


Oh crap - Didn't realize my situation is common. I also have a woman in love with me, but I've mentioned to her that although my wife and son are in Europe indefinitely, we would not be divoricing for my son's sake. But now, I feel I want to carry on living my life with my GF. But I am concerned about by son's well being.


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## TIME

Malibu17, I could almost swear you are him! You explain things the same way, use the same type of words... very eerie! Like I am talking to him.


I just can't seem to get my head around the idea that someone can live their life when they know there are issues that will never change, never get better, and make that very important part of life just an existence, not really living. I realize things can get difficult during a divorce, but things always get better. I mean why continue something that doesn't work when the only way to go is up. If you are not happy, how could it get worse, even if now you are alone. You would now have the chance to find yourself again and see what better things life has waiting for you. These are things I have said to him, of course, but I always get the same responses. fear, complicated, comfortable with the known, accepted that life isn't rosy..... I has similar fears but couldn't live under fear or accept that that was all that life had for me. I had to stop living a lie.

Yes, I am confused why change is so hard when its not worth holding onto.


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## TIME

will he be able to make a decision easier/faster if I stay away from him completely or would that just create an opportunity for distance to take away what we have?


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## Malibu17

TIME said:


> will he be able to make a decision easier/faster if I stay away from him completely or would that just create an opportunity for distance to take away what we have?


That's a good question, but he could possibly make the decision faster if you don't contact him and stay away for a while. If it's meant to be, for the both of you to be together, then it will work out, otherwise, if not, prepare yourself to move on.


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## moogvo

Time,

he has already made a decision.

Relationships that begin as affairs rarely, if ever work out in the end. So, think about what happens if he leaves his family and jumps into a serious committed relationship with you. That is disasterous right out of the chute...

First of all, when you are driving a "Jalopy", then every car with a decent paint job looks appealing.Here's the scary thing... So when you finally upgrade to a newer model with shiny paint, you are already looking for the next upgrade.

Do the two of you really believe that you can jump from your marriages into this relationship and live happily ever after? Do you really think that it will ever work out in the long term?

Of course not! 3 years of this new relationship (generous figure) and the both of you will be playing the same game with other people. In time, you will both be cheating on each other all over again, and so it goes.

So I am now guessing that you have hard feelings because you gave up your marriage and he hasn't. You probably feel like he owes the same to you on some level. Have you had desires to call him or visit him at home to cause problems for his marriage?

Think back to the beginning of your marriage. Did it start out crappy, or did the two of you carefully let it fall apart until it got to the point of divorce? And did you divorce because you had a greener pasture to go play in?

Now, think of the feelings you have for this other guy... What will you do to keep that relationship from ending out like your last one? You know, if you don't learn how to grow together, you will grow apart... Guaranteed.

Question... When two cheaters come together in one union, do they ever trust each other? Or do they always have those underlying feelings that their partner is out telling someone else that they are unhappy at home, only to come home 3 hours later and pretend that everything is okay, and that they just had to work late again...

The time to go take a ride on the hobby-horse is not when two people are in their own committed marriages. 

You need to leave him alone, he needs to leave you alone, and you need to part company and let it go. YOU need to start your life over again, but I think that you need to spend some time alone to find out who you are and what you want in life - not just jump into the first relationship you come across just because it is better than what you have now.

Don't be an impulse buyer!


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## TIME

moogvo: while I can understand your point of view, I must say that you cannot put every situation along these lines into the same cookie-cutter judgment. I am not cheater for starters and I do not regret ending my marriage. As I said, it was over before I started talking to this man. And as for him, I don't see him as cheater either. I do not understand why he stays when he is unhappy (and can fall in love with another women), but as far as I see it he is not married in his heart, only on paper. She is not a nice person and will make many problems during a divorce, even though she wants one (he said she told him years ago she has very little affection for him and no desire for intimacy).

When someone is unhappy, they learn what they really want and what is really important to them. I have no fantasy land ideas about a perfect relationship, but this has been an emotional relationship, not a physical one. I totally believe there is a big difference between getting to know someone, and lusting after and having someone physically. I know the first can last, the second is questionable. We talked about cheating and why people do it, why we spent time getting to know each other while still married, and if we would trust someone who cheated. Cheating comes from within and if you can understand why they cheated it will make sense versus just calling a cheater a cheater. Most people don't just cheat to cheat, there is a reason.

I have spent a year alone. I know exactly what I want and what I do not want in a relationship. He, although still technically married, has been alone for years. I totally believe we have what it takes to have a great and lasting relationship because we talked about all of it. We are not playing a game and we are so much alike and very compatible, unlike I ever was with my ex or him with his. When you are young, you make decisions for the wrong reasons, and that is what we both did. I have had many opportunities with other men, and went out with two, but honestly my heart is taken and I am not an impulse buyer. It takes a lot for any man to get the kind of attention I want to give him. I am way too picky, but he is totally everything I could have ever prayed for (minus this lagging decision that is killing me).

The thing I am having trouble with is WHY he can't just trust his heart and do whatever it takes to be happy again. He told me his head gets in the way (money, relationship with kids, interactions, gossip, etc.) of following his heart. I really do try not to contact him but it is so hard when you just want to hear their voice. His birthday is this month and I don't know if I should call him that day or not.


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## TIME

Since this issue has been weighing so heavily on my mind, I did another internet search using "why do married men stay in unhappy marriage" and read through many different forums. Many were just judgments and some were actual reason from personal experience. 

Seems the top reason is fear of repercussions. Losing money and material things and changed relations with children.

One thing that was mentioned several times was fear of being alone over being in an unhappy marriage!!!! This one blows my mind! When I had entire days to myself, my guy said "what I wouldn't do to have a day to myself"!!! Yet he stays where in his own words "I am not often without peering eyes" and "lots of egg shell walking" and "always impending pathos of arguments"

.... why in anyones mind would remaining in a relationship that is unhappy and unhealthy be better than being single?!?!

I also found a post that had a link to a book that seems to be very helpful (read reviews) to help people in this type of decision. I'm thinking about buying it.... 

Amazon.com: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship: Mira Kirshenbaum: Books


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## Malibu17

Time:

I know of a few (and there are MANY others), men and women, that co-exist in bad, miserable marriages, for many different reasons. Whatever the reasons are; to feel trapped and/or stay in a miserable relationship is tragic. 

Even though my wife and I have been separated for a year now, it's still difficult (even with all the issues), for me to pull the divorce trigger, because of the kids and financial reasons. However, I believe in my heart that one of us will ultimately end up filing...it's just a matter of when. I'm lonesome and so is she and we deserve to move on, if we're not getting back together. 

We have issues that counseling cannot resolve and I (and possibly my wife), have pretty much reached the point of no return.


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## TIME

TIME said:


> I also found a post that had a link to a book that seems to be very helpful (read reviews) to help people in this type of decision. I'm thinking about buying it....
> 
> Amazon.com: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship: Mira Kirshenbaum: Books


After reviewing this book further, I bought it because it really initiates thinking that one needs to consider but often neglects. I think it will be a very eye-opening read, for me or anyone.

Do you think it would be appropriate or pushy offering this book to my friend? :scratchhead:


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## moogvo

Time,

I was actually speaking from past experience. I was in a disastrously unhappy marriage for 12 years. There was no love, no trust and no friendship. I wanted it to end so badly that I couldn't stand it.

I did not pull the plug because as miserable as I was, I did not want to hurt her. I couldn't bear the thoughts I was having of her teary eyes asking me "why".

Over time, I ended up in an emotional affair with someone in the building where I worked. She was so attractive. I started trying to hit the smoking flats at the times I knew she would be there.

She listened to me. We chatted many times a day. I was confident in feeling good that I was NOT cheating because I had not crossed any lines.

Slowly but surely, the "line" drew nearer. We exchanged work phone numbers, started going out to have lunch together, and eventually we were locking lips in the parking lot before, during and after work. I would go home with her after work and make excuses to my wife about where I had been and what I had been doing.

Finally, it came to the surface with her. She figured out what I had been doing. She was terribly hurt and had instantly become vengeful towards me.

She refused to leave, she refused to allow me to sleep, she destroyed my possessions while I was at work, and she eventually had me arrested for "beating her" (Which I NEVER did.)

My wonderful new girlfriend stood by my side and watched my life burn to the ground. As soon as the proverbial fire was out, she was gone too.

Looking back on that ordeal, I wouldn't have been with her today based on what I know of her. She was not who I would have wanted to be with anyway - even though at the time, I was so smitten with her that I would have crawled through the gates of hell for her. My judgment was so severely clouded and my emotions were runing haywire.

The only thing I managed to accomplish in all of that was hurting someone in the worst possible way and netting myself a nice violent criminal record for good measure.

Now then...

I am married to the most wonderful woman I have ever had the pleasure of casting my eyes upon. She is beautiful, intelligent and strong. I went into this marriage believing whole-heartedly that it could never end.

Back in October, she had affairs with two different men. She had become emotionally attached to these people in the same way I was miserable in my first marriage. The short and the long of our story is not all that uncommon, we just simply grew apart and our marriage had become boring. We were living more like roommates than a married couple.

The pressures of our "regular" marriage. in tandem with financial difficulties and the neglect she felt as a result of me going overboard into my hobbies led her down the path to loneliness. 

At first, she met someone through her workplace, talked her troubles out, and before you know it, she was infatuated with him.

To find out about this affair, even though we were not getting along, and she had already said that she wanted a divorce cut me to the core. All it took for me to realize that she is what I wanted was for her to stand up to me and tell me that it was over.

My point in all of this is that if you are done with your marriage, you need to leave it, take some time to get over it, and THEN consider dating someone.

Believe me when I tell you... you don't need this any more than apparently HE does. If he wants out, he needs to man up and say it. Not keep playing footsies with you until he gets caught and is forced to run to you for comfort.

And Yes, he IS cheating. As long as he remains married and in cohabitation, he is CHEATING. Once the judge bangs his gavel, only THEN is it no longer cheating.

Also know that if he is found out by his wife, she could take YOU to court? (in some states) and sue you for "Alienation of affection". Judgments for this infraction commonly go into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

either way, if he is going to terminate his marriage, he needs to do it for the right reasons. He has to exercise "Due Process". If he is truly as miserable as you say, then he will leave on his own.

I also know (first hand) that people will convey that they are miserable and that their marriage is hopeless to the face of their lovers. Most times, this is a gross embellishment. Maybe he should take the time to remember why he married his wife in the first place, and then try to re-connect to that LIFETIME commitment and promise that he made to HER.

What this man does NOT need is a cheerleader on the sidelines encouraging him to sacrifice his world for her, when it might not be what he wants. If he wants to leave her, then he will. until that time, he is spoken for and unavailable.

~Moog


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## TIME

moogvo said:


> Time,
> 
> I was actually speaking from past experience. I was in a disastrously unhappy marriage for 12 years. There was no love, no trust and no friendship. I wanted it to end so badly that I couldn't stand it.
> 
> I did not pull the plug because as miserable as I was, I did not want to hurt her. I couldn't bear the thoughts I was having of her teary eyes asking me "why".



You see, that is where I get lost! When you are "miserable" and "want to end it so badly" why on earth would you stay? If you are that miserable don't you believe the other person is just as miserable? When everyone is losing, there are no winners! What I see is oblivious conceit. People (without actual realization) think the other person will somehow be worse off without them, so they stay. They feel they are doing the other person a favor by not inflicting pain, when in reality the pain is already present. Ending a relationship that is bad brings about a temporary pain that is no worse in the long run than wasting your life, and their life away on a relationship that is doing nothing positive in anyone's life. 

I do not believe that divorce is the first answer, but lets face it, some relationships should have never been entered into in the first place and trying to make something work that never will is just plain insanity. 

I could tell from your first post that you had personal experience with affairs. They are not good. But they definitely tell you that something is wrong or it would never have happened in the first place. I am sorry for the pain you have had to go through.


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## marina72

"never expected to meet anyone like him, but we met. We tried to deny our attraction because we were both married, but it did not work. "

" I am not cheater for starters and I do not regret ending my marriage. As I said, it was over before I started talking to this man. "

TIME, are you sure you aren't fooling yourself? Your two posts above, are a contradiction. Moog is right, whether it's hard to admit it or not, what this Married man is doing, is cheating, saying he is not married in his heart, is semantics, and if every single couple that was every unhappy just went around saying, it's okay and it's not cheating, because we are not married in our hearts... then what would be the point of marriage in the first place? 

Fact is, it sounds to me like the age old scenario, of a man dating a woman behind his wife's back, he tells his wife he loves her, and tells you they have insurmountable problems. And, hey, maybe they do, but there is a reason he has not left yet. And I doubt it's because it would be too messy. This is the oldest trick in the book, and he's just going to keep stringing you along, as long as you'll let him. Please understand, this is pure honesty coming on my part, I'm not here to judge you so much as to try to help open your eyes. 

Could I be wrong? Sure, definitely, but you didn't come here seeking approval for this, or did you? You are seeking advice from all points of view I would guess. But you don't seem willing at all, to see what everyone else can see. I'm not going to be pc with you, or tell you what you want to hear. You're dating a married man, and he is cheating, bar none. If you began talking to this man, and having any kind of relationship with him, prior to you getting legally divorced, then you cheated as well.... You won't solve your problems or move on, and figure out what to do, if you won't even acknowledge what is the truth. 
You asked in your post, if he'll ever make a decision. And most of the people who have responded, have said, no, probly not, and that he is basically playing a game. Whether it's intentional, or not. What he is doing, is what a lot of married men , and women for that matter do when they cheat. They tell the person that they are cheating with, "I'll leave someday, just not yet" "it's not the right time yet"...... this will go on forever. 

And Moog is right when he says, that even if this man leaves his whole family, your relationship is most likely doomed. I read a statistic, and this might be of interest to everyone... 

The percentage of marriages, that begin with two people where one, or both were unfaithful to their previous spouse, and then married the person they cheated with.. the success rate for those follow-on marriages and relationships is only about 15%

So, if this man leaves, and you two manage to get together, whether marriage, or a relationship, there's an 85% chance, that it will Not work out. I would take this into consideration, when dealing with this man, and his promises. Good luck


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## TIME

marina72 said:


> TIME, are you sure you aren't fooling yourself? Your two posts above, are a contradiction. Moog is right, whether it's hard to admit it or not, what this Married man is doing, is cheating, saying he is not married in his heart, is semantics, and if every single couple that was every unhappy just went around saying, it's okay and it's not cheating, because we are not married in our hearts... then what would be the point of marriage in the first place?



There is no contradiction, I simply meant that my marriage was over (although not yet legally over) before I met this man.

The point of marriage is based in the heart, not in a legal document, although that is what society has turned marriage into. I would be perfectly happy getting "married" on a beach, just the two of us, making vows to EACH OTHER, not before a judge or anyone else who has credentials to file legal papers.

I hear what you are saying, and I am here to find out other points of view, but I also realize it is hard to give a true point when all of the details are unknown. He is not a bad person. There points I have not shared that may or may not change your view but I have chosen to leave those to myself. He has done several things to protect my heart. I know he is telling the truth about his marriage because I know people who work with him who have told me things (they did not know about my relationship with him) so I know these things are true.

I have decided not to call him. He is going to call me when he gets himself straight. And I can hear people saying now that I'll never get that call, but I know him better than you all, and I know he will call. I may not hear the words I long to hear, but I know he will call and tell me what is going on, after some time has passed. I won't sit around, as you may have read my earlier post I have very little free time for the next year. I just hope I don't give in at a weak moment of missing him, that is usually what I do.


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## moogvo

my wife told the man in her affair just a few months ago that she no longer loved me and that she wanted to be with him. She told him that it was over between us and that it was never going to work. She told him that she didn't feel like she could ever have feelings for me again. (I read this in e-mail messages send from HER e-mail account)

Any of this sound familiar?

She actually believed that their relationship was "spiraling uncontrollably towards each other" and that they were "Soul Mates"... until I caught her and she realized that she was about to lose everything and then some. In the same fashion, HE can't concentrate on his own marriage unless the smoke from the fire of your relationship clears away and he can see things for the way they are.

Either way, it is HIS decision, not yours! Besides, shouldn't his wife have the opportunity to save what is hers before someone comes along and steals it away? Think about it from your perspective. 

I am happy to report today that my marriage in just a short month is more spectacular and has more beautiful fireworks than we have ever shared before. Our love has escalated to an incredible new level we never thought possible.

I would have been so angry if that man had been successful in stealing my family.

~Moog


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## marina72

well, Time. At least you're not going to sit around and wait on him. And , if he leaves, and calls you, and you two can make it work, then that is great for you. I wish you all the best. think of yourself though, and this man's family. Take care


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## TIME

Just an update! I bought and read the book "Too Good to Leave Too Bad to Say" by Mira Kirshenbaum and I have to say it is very eye opening to anyone stuck in the place of indecision. It clearly lays out both sides and makes you see the truth yourself. I will be lending out this book to the many lost souls I have encountered through sharing my own story.....

In my situation, I have already made the decision to end my marriage (its been final a year now) and I am very happy and feel more optimistic about my life than I ever did. But now I am still trying to get my head around my emotional relationship with this new man in my life. While I definitely know I do not want to pressure him, I want him to know that I am a loving friend who cares about him. At the point he decides to move forward and finalize his divorce, I will let him be the one to call me, when he is ready.


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## TIME

Another update! I had a conversation with my guy friend and I believe I have finally figured out the reason he is having trouble figuring out how and when to get a divorce!

He had already told me he was afraid the relationship he has with his adult children would change, which is something he does not want to happen. But this time he said "I do not see my marriage relationship and the relationship with my daughter mutually exclusive"!! That is the crux of this issue.

So when he thinks about getting a divorce, in his mind he is also divorcing his daughter. I said that a marriage relationship is separate from a parent child relationship. You CAN have one without the other successfully. They are not interdependent. BUT if this is how he sees the connections, he will be stuck in an unhappy marriage because he does not trust in his own relationship with his kids. This may be partly because they are not biologically his, although he raised them.

This also reinforced my suspicions about his initial reason for marrying, which was FOR THE KIDS. He had told me that they had many problems before they even got married, BUT he became so attached to the children (young then) that the only way he would be able to maintain those relationships was to stay with their mother. Not a good reason to marry, and in effect, he actually married the kids.

We have had no communication for a week. I gave him the book to read that I suggested on this forum call too good to leave too bad to stay.

Unless he realizes he has a separate and strong relationship with his adult kids, and trusts in them and those relationships, he will be stuck. Sometimes we create our own insurmountable hurdles that only exist in our own eyes. From an outside view, the problem does not exist, and in this case makes me ask the questions: why do you have such little faith in your kids? Why do have such little faith in your relationships with them? 
:scratchhead:


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## LOVETAKESWORK

Dear Time, how very sad I am at these posts. I can’t help but see in all this a pattern. Your comment; “I hate it because it hurts me, but I can't get him out of my mind. I spent 14 years pretending to be happy because I thought it was the right thing to do and finally had the guts to get real and end it only to find myself having to face each day with a smile when I am totally sad inside. So I am still living a lie.” Is sound like there are some very deep issues that have not been dealt with in your life that creates this unhappiness you feel, I don’t know your first husband, but sadly good or bad I am sure a lot of how you felt came out of the unmet expectation of the idea that somehow he should make you happy and complete. Now you have replaced this relationship of 14+ years with a relationship of a man that really isn’t committed to you or a life with you. I have seen this so many times, so many marriages have ended because of these very relationships, they seem so real but they are based on so much falseness. You truly don’t know a man or a woman till you have lived life with them. It is very easy to share words on paper or in e-mail expressing feelings, devotion and sentiments but it is an entirely a different matter to live out each day together embracing the many challenges this world brings and at the end of that day still profess the same devotion or sentiments. Unfortunately many husbands and wives are so desperate for something new, or fresh that they perceive the sentiments or affection of another to be much grander or sweeter than they truly are. Husbands and wives have a talent for blaming each other for their lack of happiness, fulfillment, etc., people need to learn to find wholeness and inner happiness before they sound the death toll on their marriages, as if divorce is the solve all to life’s problems. I wish I didn’t know so many divorced people that have nothing but regret from their actions and the way they approached there failed marriage. I also wish I didn’t know as many divorced people in second marriages repeating the same actions that lead to the failure of their first marriage. Dear Time, you are only 39, this is young, you obviously are a woman of extraordinary ability to be going to school fulltime, while holding a fulltime job, and raising two boys, give yourself time to find who you are, why your marriage failed, why you feel the things you do, what it will take to be truly whole and truly fulfilled, then and only then I recommend exploring relationships that would lead to marriage and hopefully a marriage that will last. Take care dear one – wishing you life’s best!


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## TIME

WORK: You really misunderstand me. I am happy with myself, I need no one to be complete (except God) because I am complete myself.

My marriage did not work because I married for the wrong reasons. Whoever said you can make yourself be with someone and eventually be happy is a liar. It did not work for me and I am sorry for all involved that I attempted it. Marry for the right reasons and you have a good chance of a happy marriage.

I have not replaced my marriage with my new friendship. It is a new stand alone relationship, not a replacement, I do know the difference. The reason I hurt inside is not because I do not feel complete alone, I hurt inside because I am confused. Nothing bad happened between us, everything was as good as it could possibly be, and then BAM..... distance. With no in depth explanation given to me. Each question created more questions. That is why I hurt. 

You say people don't know each other until they live together, so are you promoting living together before marriage? 

What we found in each other was no dream, it was just as sweet as it tasted. He may be married on paper but he has been divorced in his heart for about 10 years. The relationship with the kids is the ONLY reason he stays. I do not agree with that choice and considering the circumstances I do not understand it either. The kids are adult and moved out. 

So yes, I do know why I feel the way I do, I do know why my marriage did not work, and I am moving on with my life. Do I hope he comes to his senses and decides to be happy? Yes, and I hope it is with me. We fell in love. That love exists. The reason I am sad is because I love him but cannot be with him yet.


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## LOVETAKESWORK

Dear Time, I am sorry for your hurt, it breaks my heart when people hurt because of broken relationships and unmet needs. I don’t believe this what God intended for anyone. I certainly am not promoting living together as I think you know, but I certainly am no ones judge and do not expect people to adhere to my moral beliefs. I am sorry for your first marriage and yes, I can see if you marry for the wrong reasons how this can effect and challenge your ability to succeed in that marriage, but as I have written about in many of my posts Love is so much more than what people think or perceive, true love comes with time and nurturing and is only made better by challenges and trials. My wife and I were young when we married and she and I thought we were deeply in love. We had a very exciting courtship filled with moonlight walks along the beach, poetry, candlelight dinners and hours filled with thoughts of the future, but as “in love” as I thought I was with her so many years ago, that love then does not compare to what I feel now, as matter of fact if either of us didn’t grow past that love we would have never made it all these years and through the challenges we have had to endure. I acknowledge the deep feelings you have expressed for your friend and the deep feelings he has expressed to you, but I challenge you to dig deeper in this matter of love. True Love takes time a great deal of it. I know you and I have had our differences on these boards and I am sorry for that. I truly wish you happiness, but in the spirit of brotherly love I ask that you pursue this matter with all your heart, and since you mentioned God in your post, I would like to add to be patient and wait on Him, Our Father in Heaven wants nothing more than to see us whole and living the lives He intended for us. Wishing you much success dear Time!


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