# Are there any surrendered wives here?



## MrsRutland

I read Laura Doyle's book, surrendered wife and initially I didn't love it but after following her advice I now love it, I feel that if I tell my friends about it they will think I'm wierd and havn't managed to find many like minded people online, is there anyone here who surrendered?


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## dcrim

How about a quick synopsis? I never heard of her or the concept.


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## sarah.rslp

MrsRutland said:


> I read Laura Doyle's book, surrendered wife and initially I didn't love it but after following her advice I now love it, I feel that if I tell my friends about it they will think I'm wierd and havn't managed to find many like minded people online, is there anyone here who surrendered?


I looked it up on wikipedia I can see how a lot of people would have a problem with the concept, and its not something that I'd subscribe to.

Saying that relationships need one person that has the final word, and call me old fashioned if I think it should be the bloke. 

In my case I joined the army at 16 I didn't finish secondary school, hubby when I met him had several post grad qualification and earned 5 times what I did. So to say that in the socio economic scale of things that we weren't equals is just a statement of fact.

When Hubby asked me to marry him the only way it was going to work was if I left the army, He's quite a gentle man and a rational and intelligent one over the course of our relationship to that point he'd become more assertive and confidant, not just with me but with other people. So he flat out told me that he was going to support me and that I should be a housewife.

So hubby doesn't cook, clean do dishes or laundry. We had a lot of family problems in the last year so I help out there as well. So I'm fairly busy the majority of the day. Hubby is the financial centre of the marraige and that means he decides. I ask him I don't tell him.

I prefer it that way. I'm pretty unique among our circle of friends in not working and I actually think our marraige has a lot less strain on it. I also think a lot of women sometimes lack confidence and feel like they need to exert their authority on their husbands which I don't think ever works out.

Anywho my experience is unique to me I'm not sure how relevant it would be to anyone else.


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## lostluv

The "Surrendered Wives" movement is centered around six basic principles:

a wife relinquishes control of her husband's life 
she respects his decisions for his life 
she practices good self-care (she does at least three things a day for her own enjoyment) 
she also practices receiving compliments and gifts graciously 
she practices expressing gratitude (thanking her husband for the things he does) 
a surrendered wife is not afraid to show her vulnerability and take the feminine approach 
Continuing in an abusive, alcoholic, or adulterous relationship is not promoted or condoned

Found this on Wikipedia, hope it answers questions as to what the theory is.

Personally I would not do well with this as I often do not take the feminine approach to things, just not my style.


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## dcrim

Ok. I found Surrendered Wife - Laura Doyle - Creating Happy Marriage Intimacy, Advice, Tips, Support, Books, Seminars from google. 

The only thing I can think is that if it works for you (both), then great. It sounds, to me, too much like a victorian attitude, though. 

I happen to think life (and marriage) burdens (and joys) should be shared (as equally as possible). 

It's not a matter of avoiding responsibility (or sharing blame), but to make informed decisions based on mutual and individual experiences. 

The list espoused on that web site is:
- Give up unnecessary control and responsibility
- Express their needs while also respecting their husband's choices
- Resist the temptation to criticize, belittle or dismiss their husbands
- Trust their husbands in every aspect of marriage - from sexual to financial...and more


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## GPR

I have nothing against a homemaker wife (or husband for that matter), if one spouse stays at home and cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids while the other one is a financial provider.

But, as a guy, I wouldn't want my wife to be totally submissive (or surrendered) to me. I would want her to be an individual, express her opinions and concerns with me. Tell me if I do something that pisses her off, share in the financial decisions. 

I mean, it sounds nice at first... a wife that never dismisses, criticizes, controls, or questions... but in the long run, I wouldn't like it. Not to mention the effect it would have on my wife, but I wouldn't like that kind of relationship either.


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## dcrim

I was just thinking: Stepford Wives!


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## lostangel78

Granted I do most of the housework ( I'm a neat freak), and most of the cooking, it's because I don't mind it most of the time, my hubby makes sure the bills are paid (basically I get the money and pay them or they won't be on time), however I can go to work at any point and time I wish. BUT I donot believe in putting my children in daycare for someone else to raise during their most delicate years (personal opinion). My husband feels the same way. My husband and I have this policy that if you have something to say or ask always be prepared to either accept or try to understand the other person's answer or feelings. Basically what I am saying is, I will say, do and come and go as I please, I donot, have not nor will I ever ask permission to do anything...if it's something major we discuss it and compromise. My husband would not like me if I were a surrendered wife. He says he likes the way I feel like I have to express myself when needed.


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## psychocandy

I think I'm a surrendered husband !!! LOL.


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## TGolbus

That advice sounds familiar with the bible – sorry not trying to start a debate or anything here. The wife is to surrender to the husband – this doesn’t mean a door mat, but means placing the husband first… A respect thing.
Now before you all beat me. This can only happen if the husband loves his wife as Christ loved the church – he died for her. If the decisions that he makes, he is making with the best intentions, and is placing the needs of his wife over his own, he should be making decisions that honor and loves his wife.
I agree with it, as long as both parties subscribe to it. I wouldn’t want my wife to be “beneath” me. We have different roles in our marriage, but we are equals.
Any of this make sense?


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## Deejo

psychocandy said:


> I think I'm a surrendered husband !!! LOL.


Bingo ...


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## MsLady

I think not all wives can "surrender" because their husbands don't have the capacity to lead or dominate or whatever the right word may be. In other words, a surrendered wife can only exist if the man is ready to take on his part of the deal. Not all men can or want to be dominant in a relationship. Nor can all women be surrendered. But, if each of the partners' personalities fits the requirement for this type of dynamic, then I see how it could work for them.

There are many days I wish I could surrender ...


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## sarah.rslp

MsLady said:


> I think not all wives can "surrender" because their husbands don't have the capacity to lead or dominate or whatever the right word may be. In other words, a surrendered wife can only exist if the man is ready to take on his part of the deal. Not all men can or want to be dominant in a relationship. Nor can all women be surrendered. But, if each of the partners' personalities fits the requirement for this type of dynamic, then I see how it could work for them.
> 
> There are many days I wish I could surrender ...


I'd agree with most of that. Like I said I don't neccessarily subscribe to some american self help guru's view of what being a wife is, but I do believe that in a marraige someone needs to have the final word, and it works out better if its the man.

I don't think we should fall into the stereotype of some hyper masculine type laying down the law. My H is a quite gentle man, after we met he gradually realised that he needed to take responsibility much more and take decisions about how we were going to live our lives together. Once he did everything just clicked into place.


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## Shameless

I think marriage is a joint effort, that said, I also believe that you can be a surrendered wife without totally surrendering. Just because you respect your husbands decision doesn't mean you don't have a say, IMO. As far as controling your husbands life, there are not many men out there that will be controlled. I don't control my husband's life at all, however, I do encourage him to follow his dreams, as he encourages me to follow mine. Expressing gratitude for things your spouse does is letting them know they are appreciated, not just surrendering. Being vuneralbe is a human trait not just a feminine one. Men just don't show it to everyone, I have seen my husband in this state, it only made me love him more, and GOD knows he has seen me in mine more than a few times, which it is only natural for a woman to be more vunerable than a man, or at least show it. We are emotional creatures, men deal in fact(mostly), emotions are not always their strong suit. (Not trying to offend or sound feminist or anything just stating my opinion) A man that can show his emotions to his wife, and still be strong for her is a wonderful find. My husband may not show them often, but I have seen them, it doesn't make him less a man, to me it makes him more so. 

I'm rambleing....I guess I will stop lol


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## MrsRutland

you dont have to be a stay at home wife or anything for this to work, although I am but thats mainly because my children are still small, it takes a lot of the strain off of me because I let him make the harder decisions and obviously I should respect him (which I wasn't really before) a big point of the book is, you chose to marry him he must be half decent or you wouldnt of now you constantly try to change him and sit around telling your friends about all the stupid things he has done. I understand he is an adult and is perfectly capable of looking after himself and making his own mistakes, if we are walking and he wants to go one way but I think its longer I don't say anything as if I do I know its like saying your wrong im right god it just causes a sort of barrier if you keep doing things like this a lot, I used to moan at him about nearly everything from not making a cuppa tea right and even how he brushed his teeth but now I realise he can do these things how he likes, I let him know what I want but let him make the decisions some of them I'm not happy with but I know he doesnt want any harm to come to me or the kids so I know even if its not the way I would do it it doesnt mean its wrong. I think thats the main thing with surrendering really.


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## MrsRutland

MsLady said:


> I think not all wives can "surrender" because their husbands don't have the capacity to lead or dominate or whatever the right word may be. In other words, a surrendered wife can only exist if the man is ready to take on his part of the deal. Not all men can or want to be dominant in a relationship. Nor can all women be surrendered. But, if each of the partners' personalities fits the requirement for this type of dynamic, then I see how it could work for them.
> 
> There are many days I wish I could surrender ...


That is true, but at the same time maybe the men have never been given the oppourtunity to lead? Men and women are programmed differently, but this doesnt mean all men are strong and hardworking and all women are homemakers and broody and of course lines are very blurred. but I think once you understand your strengths and weaknesses you understand more about how to fit properly together in a marriage. I really honestly do not feel suppressed in my marriage it works so well now! 
I have also met men that are complete jerks and feel that if their wives surrendered they would completely take advantage of them but at the same time I would love to see what would happen if the wife did try surrendering, I mean they can always stop if they dont like it!


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## humpty dumpty

I loved my job ! I enjoyed working hard and we all helped do the daily chores this worked well we were all happy tired but happy.

The last two weeks WOW!! Im loving being a stay at home mum , im loving cooking again ,im loving spending quality time with my children, Im even loving doing the house work  lol !!! even better i love having everything done so once the kids are in bed i get my husband to myself with out having to mark books and prepare lessons.


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## boc0660

I have just finished reading the WHOLE of the book. Many responses here are from people who have read a few of the general points touched in the book. I'm raring to go but feel I cannot surrender the finances of the household since I work in a bank. It would be a bit like getting my husband to do the supermarket shopping if I worked in a supermarket !! Any help from a surrendered ?


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## FirstYearDown

If your husband is not good with money, I see no reason why you should surrender your financial control. I'm not sure how well your husband handles finances. 

My husband handles the money because he is better with it than I am. I am not currently working because I am a student. When he gives me money to spend on myself, I put some of it away.

I surrender to my husband in the sense that I do not try to dominate over him. He feels respected and loved because I try to listen to his point of view and advice. I appreciate they way my husband also listens to my opinion. Most of the time, I criticize constructively. When I forget, he calmly lets me know that he will not stand for being yelled at or insulted. I immediately apologize and check my tone. My husband would not marry a woman who did not challenge him and ask questions. 

I think surrendering is about trusting your husband to make good decisions for your family and your marriage.


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## WorkingOnMe

Is a surrendered wife the same thing as "taken in hand"?


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## lamaga

I find the whole thing really offensive, but this is an old thread, so no point in debating.


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## WorkingOnMe

All right lamaga, now get your butt in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!


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## GTdad

I must admit that there are times when having a Stepford Wife would be a pleasant change. Not for long, though. Say, maybe for an extended weekend.


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## heartsbeating

I know this is an old thread... but if I even had that book title laying around at home, hubs would check to see if I had a fever lol.


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## Coffee Amore

heartsbeating said:


> I know this is an old thread... but if I even had that book title laying around at home, hubs would check to see if I had a fever lol.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Mine too.....


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## *LittleDeer*

Sounds like my relationship and I love it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

Little deer, I was serious in my question. I think you were the one who brought up taken in hand before.


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## happylovingwife

I follow the biblical description.

My husband is an amazing man. He treats me incredibly well. I am completely OK with submitting to him because he always puts my best interests first. I always have the nicer car despite pushing him to get a new one. I always have the newest equipment and electronic gadgets. He never complains about housework being unfinished and says, "I'm happy with whatever you were able to do today. Don't try to please me. I just want you to be happy." He's just amazing in every way. That said, he's quite an alpha male. He works long hours. He travels. He puts forth 100% effort at work. Sometimes that's hard for me and I complain, but I go along with it because he's the leader. He's providing for our family and doing it his way. He's thinking about starting another company (he isn't providing the capital, just a workplace decision) and I'm not sure about it, but in the end it's his decision. He asks my input and hears my concerns but he'll make the final choice. I trust him to do right by his family.


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## lamaga

Don't mind me, I'll just be over here beating my head against the wall. Carry on.


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## BeachGuy

This is how my marriage is but not by choice, and I can tell you...it does not work. My wife is very submissive, non-confrontational, quiet, does not do well with any kind of conflict...I "have" to make all of the decisions because she won't.

It sucks having to do everything, ALL the time. It is not a partnership.


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## Coffee Amore

BeachGuy said:


> This is how my marriage is but not by choice, and I can tell you...it does not work. My wife is very submissive, non-confrontational, quiet, does not do well with any kind of conflict...I "have" to make all of the decisions because she won't.
> 
> *It sucks having to do everything, ALL the time. It is not a partnership*.


The bolded part (by me) is exactly why I couldn't do it. I want my marriage to be partnership where both my husband and I work together. 

I used to be on this other message board that had Quiverfull women. I wonder if anyone here has heard of Quiverfull. Surrendered wives sounds so similar as far as gender roles. Earlier this year, I looked through the Surrendered Wives book. In the book, there is section on how if you were in the car (of course the husband is driving because women folk shouldn't drive after all), and you notice that he's turning the wrong way and is about to get lost, you don't tell him which way to go. You don't say "honey, that's not the right way to go." In fact, you don't even mention to him that you know the right way to go. What you do is let him figure it out. You can also drop some hints. According to the book, you can do that with anything in the marital relationship - drop hints, don't actually come out and say what you think and he makes all decisions. So the husband makes all the decisions but you manipulate the heck out of him to get him to do what you want. It seems to me having a straightfoward adult conversation is far better.


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## lamaga

Yep, CoffeeAmore, that's encouraging passive aggressive behavior. Oh, sweet!


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## tacoma

I would be so seriously pissed off if my wife allowed me to get lost when she knew where we should be going the whole time.

Most of the dislike for this concept is coming from the female side and rightfully so but I find it insulting as a male that I should be treated in the manner Coffees example implies.

I wouldn`t last a minute with a woman like this.


Edit:

Actually I find the whole thing insulting as a male.
WTF must a woman think of me as a man to believe I`m so self absorbed and ego-centric.

Not to mention the concept implies I`m (as a male) too stupid to realize my wife`s blatant condescension of me.


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## lamaga

Tacoma...I knew I liked you for a reason


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## WorkingOnMe

What do you all think of the "captain and first officer" model that MMSL talks about? I mean, is it important that the partnership be 100% equal? Or is it ok that one has the final say but "delegates" everyday decisions?

I remember that for a long time when I was an "employee" I wanted to have my own practice. At one point we talked about moving to my home state. I knew a guy who was retiring and wanted to sell. We flew there and looked at his business (well, "I" looked at his business). She was clear that she didn't want to move that far but said she would go along with whatever I wanted. But I knew her heart wasn't in it and passed on the opportunity. 

Years later I had another opportunity closer to home that still required a move. She was kind of wishy washy about moving but I didn't want to stay in my job so I kind of pushed the situation through and made the decision. I consider stuff like moving to another town a big decision, and I would like it to be joint. But I consider my career to by primarily my decision and in that case I made the call (she was a SAHM at that point).

Does my description sound like less than a partnership? My wife is FAR from surrendered in any way. And I'm very hands off on day to day decision making. But she does tend to defer to me on bigger stuff.

Edited to add that I only mentioned she was a SAHM to point out that she didn't have to quit a job to move. Also, neither of our kids at the time were in school or anything like that. And the move was only a 45 minute drive away.


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## lamaga

Generally, I just don't worry my pretty little head about it.


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## tacoma

WorkingOnMe said:


> What do you all think of the "captain and first officer" model that MMSL talks about? I mean, is it important that the partnership be 100% equal? Or is it ok that one has the final say but "delegates" everyday decisions?
> 
> I remember that for a long time when I was an "employee" I wanted to have my own practice. At one point we talked about moving to my home state. I knew a guy who was retiring and wanted to sell. We flew there and looked at his business (well, "I" looked at his business). She was clear that she didn't want to move that far but said she would go along with whatever I wanted. But I knew her heart wasn't in it and passed on the opportunity.
> 
> Years later I had another opportunity closer to home that still required a move. She was kind of wishy washy about moving but I didn't want to stay in my job so I kind of pushed the situation through and made the decision. I consider stuff like moving to another town a big decision, and I would like it to be joint. But I consider my career to by primarily my decision and in that case I made the call (she was a SAHM at that point).
> 
> Does my description sound like less than a partnership? My wife is FAR from surrendered in any way. And I'm very hands off on day to day decision making. But she does tend to defer to me on bigger stuff.


That actually sounds like a pretty good example of MMSL`s "Captain/First Officer" concept.

The concept includes the ability for the first officer to tell the captain he`s ****ing up.

My marriage has the same logistics as yours it sounds.
My wife really runs the whole damn thing on a day to day basis but defers to me on risky decisions involving, money, kids/schools, large investments/purchases.

I`ve passed up a few opportunities deferring to my wife`s needs/wants as she`s done for me I`m sure.

I don`t mind the MMSL concept of marital leadership as everyone has a say and some good leverage for being heard/getting their way.

This surrendered wife concept just seems to dance around sincerity in favor of subtle manipulation.
Now I`m not against subtle manipulation at times and in fact am quite adept at it  BUT to base an entire relationship upon it never allows you to know what you`re really capable of.


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## WorkingOnMe

lamaga said:


> Generally, I just don't worry my pretty little head about it.


LOL.


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## tacoma

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I think you really hit it here, tacoma, on several fronts. I can't speak for every male, but do most really want a woman who acts simpering and helpless and unable to fend for herself?


Not most modern men I know.

I was raised by strong women, I couldn`t have married anything less.
In fact the strength of my wife`s will was a major factor in my choosing her as a partner.

I don`t want a woman to stand behind me but rather she walk beside me.


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## WorkingOnMe

I prefer to stand behind her. Better view.


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## Phenix70

Coffee Amore said:


> The bolded part (by me) is exactly why I couldn't do it. I want my marriage to be partnership where both my husband and I work together.
> 
> I used to be on this other message board that had Quiverfull women. *I wonder if anyone here has heard of Quiverfull. *Surrendered wives sounds so similar as far as gender roles. Earlier this year, I looked through the Surrendered Wives book. In the book, there is section on how if you were in the car (of course the husband is driving because women folk shouldn't drive after all), and you notice that he's turning the wrong way and is about to get lost, you don't tell him which way to go. You don't say "honey, that's not the right way to go." In fact, you don't even mention to him that you know the right way to go. What you do is let him figure it out. You can also drop some hints. According to the book, you can do that with anything in the marital relationship - drop hints, *don't actually come out and say what you think and he makes all decisions*. So the husband makes all the decisions but you manipulate the heck out of him to get him to do what you want. It seems to me having a straightfoward adult conversation is far better.


The Duggars are Quiverfull, which explains a lot.

I could NOT imagine allowing anyone but myself to make decisions for me & my life. 
Sure I consult my husband on decisions, yet seeing as I'm an adult & don't need or want someone else to decide my life for me, I could never be a "Surrendered Wife."


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## lamaga

Good point.

And the whole shtick about it being "biblical"? Balderdash. Those parts of the Bible were written by MEN who were very eager to maintain their power in a patriarchal society. Nothing wrong with that, but don't let's get all sentimental about it.


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## As You Wish

lamaga said:


> I find the whole thing really offensive, but this is an old thread, so no point in debating.


Well, some of us weren't here when it was first "debated," so I think that makes it worth reviving.

Someone asked if it's like Taken in Hand...sort of, but not really.

I'm not surrendered, taken in hand or anything but in love with my alpha husband. I find the concept fascinating, and have read quite a bit about it. Much the same way I find polygamy, the Mafia, religious cults, and serial killers fascinating and have read extensively on those topics, as well.

So, yeah, let's talk. I still want to know if there are any RL surrendered or TiH wives here, as I have some questions.


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## WorkingOnMe

Surrendered is starting to sound like make your husband 'think' he's in charge.


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## tacoma

WorkingOnMe said:


> Surrendered is starting to sound like make your husband 'think' he's in charge.


Exactly!

How insulting is that to a guy?

LMAO


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## heartsbeating

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> What made me laugh about it was how it was presented. There is a line in it that goes something like, "Could you please help weak lil ol me with this heavy bag of groceries? I need a big strong man like you to lift it for me." Not a direct quote, but some game- playing nonsense like that. If I want my dh to help me, I just say, "Babe, this is heavy. Can you grab it for me? Thanks."


:rofl: oh dear....... I will say "Now, if only I had a big strong man around!" He's standing right there. He swoops in "How can I help?" It's said in cheesy tones. We both know it's cheesy but it's our way of silly banter. 

I also ask him directly too, the way you have said.


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## heartsbeating

Honestly though, if it works for the couple - for both people - then so be it. 

I did ask my H about this type of thing a while back after reading a few threads here about who leads the relationship and such. He felt we both have strengths that came into play. We both make decisions on things. At times one of us takes more of the lead than the other. These are things that play to our strengths. 

This works for us. This is who we are.

To each their own.


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## Coffee Amore

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I think the title of the book sets a lot of women off.
> 
> It's like the line from Big Fat Greek Wedding..."the man is the head, but the woman is the neck, and the neck can turn the head anyway it chooses..."
> 
> *It's true. Women/wives hold a lot of power in this area, and if they would use it for good, things would be better in many marriages. * We usually set the tone.
> 
> Alright, ready your flamethrowers; I can take it. issed:


That reminded me of the quote from Spider Man ..."With great power comes great responsibility."


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## Entropy3000

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I think the title of the book sets a lot of women off.
> 
> It's like the line from Big Fat Greek Wedding..."the man is the head, but the woman is the neck, and the neck can turn the head anyway it chooses..."
> 
> It's true. Women/wives hold a lot of power in this area, and if they would use it for good, things would be better in many marriages. We usually set the tone.
> 
> Alright, ready your flamethrowers; I can take it. issed:


From another thread:

Female Led Marriage - where women lead the home

I like more balance in a relationship.

That said, I focus on my career. On a day to day basis my wife is pretty much at the helm. Big decisions we do the POJA. That said, there are times I take the helm. It comes down to skillsets. On very rare occasions I have had to take charge. This is never a situation of disagreement but rather, "Me : I have this, Her : yes please handle this".

I think the best thing this website has provided me is a greater appreciation of just how awesome my SO is. I take full credit though.


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## Entropy3000

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Three and a half year old thread revived. roflmao
> 
> I read this book and laughed hysterically through it. It's not new. Another woman whose name escapes me at the moment wrote almost exactly the same book in the '70's.
> 
> What made me laugh about it was how it was presented. There is a line in it that goes something like, "Could you please help weak lil ol me with this heavy bag of groceries? I need a big strong man like you to lift it for me." Not a direct quote, but some game- playing nonsense like that. If I want my dh to help me, I just say, "Babe, this is heavy. Can you grab it for me? Thanks."
> 
> *Respect your man. *That's the whole idea of the book, badly presented. Stop b*tching at him over small stuff that doesn't matter.
> 
> *Men want their woman to be their friend, partner, and lover. Have fun, have sex, lighten up! Life is short. Remember how you felt as newlyweds and try to hang on to it forever. *
> 
> It's not easy but what is?


Dang, this is it ... thank you. Why can't folks seem to get this?

I think respect is essential for all concerned but I can say for myself that as an emotional need it is right up there at #2 and basically a requirement.


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## Entropy3000

WorkingOnMe said:


> Surrendered is starting to sound like make your husband 'think' he's in charge.


Cheap Trick Surrender - YouTube

A Message For Men


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## heartsbeating

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> How about, "If you carry this heavy bag of groceries inside for me with your big strong masculine arms, I'll give you a killer bj?"
> 
> No woman would ever carry a bag of groceries ever again? :rofl:


oh he gets treated well.  

Now maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't exchange sexual acts for helping. It's just not how I role. Most the time he'd carry the groceries anyway, just being a gentleman. But when I'm being cheesy, it's more like Austin Powers than anything. That silliness usually leads to flirtation though... it's all good fun.


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## heartsbeating

Entropy3000 said:


> I like more balance in a relationship.
> 
> That said, I focus on my career. On a day to day basis my wife is pretty much at the helm. Big decisions we do the POJA. That said, there are times I take the helm. It comes down to skillsets. On very rare occasions I have had to take charge. This is never a situation of disagreement but rather, "Me : I have this, Her : yes please handle this".


This is how we are with regards to decisions. What is POJA?

I still think of my husband as "head" of the house-hold despite the way we make decisions together and such. He was surprised about this lol. While we both are actively involved with big decisions, financials, property etc. I don't think there can be two leaders at one time. It varies to our strengths/skill-sets. He's told me that he values knowing I can have our back. He's seen me be that too. Me? I just thought that was a given. Coming here (which has sparked conversation between us) has made me realize how important that is to him. It's made me realize how I do think of him as taking the lead. I think we both trust the decisions that each other makes but we still make them together. We're both engaged and involved.


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## heartsbeating

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> In that scenario, I think you mean "roll." :rofl: You know, as in, with seeds.
> 
> But you do dress as Catwoman, so maybe it is role?
> 
> (Sorry, hearts, that was just too good to pass up! Had to give you a hard time)
> 
> I would exchange sexual favors, but I prefer the term, *rewarding*
> 
> Mr. LadyFrog, you've been a good boy. Look how nicely you mowed the lawn. Cum here.


After I responded I realized I hadn't had enough caffeine yet to enjoy the humor behind it. My apologies. Roll, role..bah! heheh.

So your lawn must be bare from where he keeps going back to mow it then?  < I read back what I wrote and there wasn't meant to be innuendo with this lol.

Sexual "rewards" are rewarded just for being a sexy hunk of a man and everything that that encompasses, not for a specific task he's done for us/our home. Flirting can stem from those tasks but I guess I approach that differently from you.


----------



## heartsbeating

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I'm going to have to go to the library and re-read the book...seems to me there was something in it about *forget* to pay the power bill, then when your husband asks why there's no electricity, tell him that you were too confused by the bill to take care of it.
> 
> So you're supposed to be without power and pay a reconnect fee to prove to your husband that he's in control? GET REAL. How about just treating him with love and respect day-to-day?
> 
> Doyle got rich off that drivel.




wth?!


----------



## Entropy3000

heartsbeating said:


> This is how we are with regards to decisions. What is POJA?
> 
> *I still think of my husband as "head" of the house-hold despite the way we make decisions together and such. He was surprised about this lol.* While we both are actively involved with big decisions, financials, property etc. I don't think there can be two leaders at one time. It varies to our strengths/skill-sets. He's told me that he values knowing I can have our back. He's seen me be that too. Me? I just thought that was a given. Coming here (which has sparked conversation between us) has made me realize how important that is to him. It's made me realize how I do think of him as taking the lead. I think we both trust the decisions that each other makes but we still make them together. We're both engaged and involved.


Policy Of Joint Agreement. I learned about this from one of Harley's books. My wife and I were already doing this naturally. 

Essentially no big decision is made without agreement / concensus. You talk things out and decide together. I mean day to day stuff people have to be trusted to do their thing. It is about big stuff. Quiting a job. Life changing stuff that has high impact on the marriage. Major policies like boundaries. Spending large sums of money. Inviting a relative to move into the home.
Treating your spouse as a full partner.
Not day to day stuff. 

I think this was natrual for us because when I was in the Navy, my wife had to be strong and able to runs things for us without me. So many women are not empowered or prepared for this. And frankly there is so much she is good at that I do not want to mess with.

Yes, I am head of our household. As independent as she is, she seems very happy with this. Maybe she just lets me have that illusion. I just don't misuse this.


----------



## FirstYearDown

Respect does not mean becoming an idiot who can't do anything independently.

No way in HELL I would allow my husband get lost or not pay a bill. That would be ridiculous. 

I used to fight tooth and nail about every mistake my husband made. Now I have learned to stop sweating the small stuff and loosen up. 

Why can't wives and husbands simply control what they are best at? We all have strengths and weaknesses. I am the cook and menu planner because I enjoy cooking. I am also the social director and family kinkeeper; if I left that up to my husband, we would rarely contact our families or have fun activities outside the home.

My husband consults me on large purchases and financial decisions. He makes the final choices because he manages money better than I do. My husband offered to let me handle the bills, but I left it up to him. We are more comfortable with this arrangement. He is also in charge of diffusing very emotional situations because his demeanor is much calmer than mine. My husband helps me to relax and remember that everything doesn't have to be perfect. 

The division of household labour is 90-10. Since my husband is supporting both of us and sending me to school, I see no reason why he should also have to do very much housework. I do not wash dishes when I cook and I do not grocery shop. 

We can all surrender to our spouses by being humble and magnanimous during difficult periods.


----------



## heartsbeating

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> We're on exactly the same page but that whole annoying Aquarius thing gets in the way. :rofl:


:smthumbup:


----------



## Coffee Amore

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Yeah, I'm serious...there is some really stupid stuff in that book. It's not meant to be funny but I do remember laughing my butt off while reading it.


That was my reaction too. 

The approach advocated in the book seemed very manipulative and passive aggressive.


----------



## Gaia

Entropy3000 said:


> Policy Of Joint Agreement.
> 
> Essentially no big decision is made without agreement / concensus. You talk things out and decide together.
> Treating your spouse as a full partner.


:iagree::iagree: This is how things are for the most part with my own relationship. I don't see showing respect, consideration, or being feminine as surrendering... nor do i believe the man should be the ultimate decision maker. This is just my viewpoint though.


----------



## mandy123

MrsRutland said:


> I read Laura Doyle's book, surrendered wife and initially I didn't love it but after following her advice I now love it, I feel that if I tell my friends about it they will think I'm wierd and havn't managed to find many like minded people online, is there anyone here who surrendered?


hi mandy i am 36 years old i joined this site today, i am a surrendered wife, i have been married to my husband 4 years i have 5 children and the youngest two are hisxxx:smthumbup:


----------



## Emerald

Oh Hell no.

Wow, just wow..........


----------



## TiggyBlue

tacoma said:


> I would be so seriously pissed off if my wife allowed me to get lost when she knew where we should be going the whole time.
> 
> Most of the dislike for this concept is coming from the female side and rightfully so but I find it insulting as a male that I should be treated in the manner Coffees example implies.
> 
> I wouldn`t last a minute with a woman like this.
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Actually I find the whole thing insulting as a male.
> WTF must a woman think of me as a man to believe I`m so self absorbed and ego-centric.
> 
> Not to mention the concept implies I`m (as a male) too stupid to realize my wife`s blatant condescension of me.


My husband would be exactly the same way.
I just asked him if he took a wrong turn somewhere (because he is obviously always driving ) and found out later I knew he did but said nothing. 
His answer was 'why the f*ck would you say nothing if you knew I was going the wrong way?' so I told him the thoughts of surrendered wife (that he would always lead ect)
then he started to get pissed, saying "so basically as a man im so fragile that I need a woman to pretend to have no say on major decisions or if I don't have the final say on something that I become feeling 'emasculated', give me a f*ckin break"

yh he's insulted and pissed off now


----------



## DangerousCurves

After reading the book, I became a "surrendered wife" to save my failing marriage... my husband decided to use this as an oppotunity to cheat on me and get away with it for many years.


----------



## 45188

This would not work with my relationship. My man can't even choose what he wants for dinner haha.. Not to mention if youre a surrendered wife, your husband won't respect you. If he doesn't respect you, he wouldn't empathize with you. If he can't empathize with you and share the burden - down the road I think he wouldn't see cheating as wrong, since it would kinda give him NPD.. I think it's moot.


----------



## mandy123

hi, some people this works for and some it does not, the world would be a boring place if we was all the same.

me and my husband has found that it works for us our marriage is stronger than ever and we could not be happier, no i am not a doormat neither is my husband is a demanding monster.

it is really hard for a me to explain what a surrendered wife is without sounding strange and weird.

my husband has a hell of a lot of respect for me i suppose each man is different my hubby is a very loving man but not every man is the same.

my husband would never cheat on me i know this for a fact, he is the total opposite of this were very much in love and he is a great father to our children.

i really do not see why he would need to cheat one of a surrendered wives virtues is not to say no to sex in the bedroom, we have a very active sexlife.

this way has worked for us but i truly understand why it wouldent work for everybdyxx


----------



## cloudwithleggs

Lets say a load of bollocks, for god sake grow a pair, you put women back to the dark ages.

My estranged narcissistic would of loved that so right up his street.

I think the best thing i ever did the last time i saw him was sock him in the face, yes it cut his lip, then he played victim and chased me about telling me to do it again, very strange :scratchhead:   :smthumbup:


----------



## mandy123

sorry i do not have bollocks, but i have been taught to respect peoples opinions, and lifestyles, i am really not one to insult anyone for there way of lives, sounds to me cloudwithlegs you have had a very bad experience with a man and have been burnt, sorry about that, but not everyone shares your views.

were all different, and i love my life and everything in it, i wouldent change it, and everybody can live the way they want.

and i do not need to grow a pair of bollocks i am a lady, who is proud of herself and life.


----------



## bribrius

kipani said:


> This would not work with my relationship. My man can't even choose what he wants for dinner haha.. Not to mention if youre a surrendered wife, your husband won't respect you. If he doesn't respect you, he wouldn't empathize with you. If he can't empathize with you and share the burden - down the road I think he wouldn't see cheating as wrong, since it would kinda give him NPD.. I think it's moot.


Not true. In fact totally wrong. My wife is beyond surrendered, she is a submissive. This doesnt mean she cant give her opinion, in fact i want it. It means whatever i decide that is what happens. And i respect her more for her submission and hold her on a pedestal. Any woman can fight and argue. It takes a real one to submit and love. She puts a huge amount of trust in me. I cant even tell you how much value and devotion i have for her. What she gives me, i return. Perhaps not in the same way. But i guard her with my life. Not only wont i cheat. im protective as hell over her.

Now if i was with a woman that fought, argued, basically wasted my life and had not respect because it never seemed to end. i would have no respect for her, dislike her, and basically her value in my eyes would be about nil. As i would basically consider her useless and a waste of my time. Course i wouldnt be with a woman like that. Not only do i not believe in that type of relationship, life is to short to spend it with a headache.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

bribrius said:


> Not true. In fact totally wrong. My wife is beyond surrendered, she is a submissive. This doesnt mean she cant give her opinion, in fact i want it. It means whatever i decide that is what happens. And i respect her more for her submission and hold her on a pedestal. Any woman can fight and argue. *It takes a real one to submit and love.* She puts a huge amount of trust in me. I cant even tell you how much value and devotion i have for her. What she gives me, i return. Perhaps not in the same way. But i guard her with my life. Not only wont i cheat. im protective as hell over her.
> 
> Now if i was with a woman that fought, argued, basically wasted my life and had not respect because it never seemed to end. i would have no respect for her, dislike her, and basically her value in my eyes would be about nil. As i would basically consider her useless and a waste of my time. Course i wouldnt be with a woman like that. Not only do i not believe in that type of relationship, life is to short to spend it with a headache.


It is nice you are happy but that is crap (bolded). Maybe I should pull a WorkingOnMe and correct it for you. 

It takes a real one to love.


----------



## bribrius

abitlost said:


> My husband would be exactly the same way.
> I just asked him if he took a wrong turn somewhere (because he is obviously always driving ) and found out later I knew he did but said nothing.
> His answer was 'why the f*ck would you say nothing if you knew I was going the wrong way?' so I told him the thoughts of surrendered wife (that he would always lead ect)
> then he started to get pissed, saying "so basically as a man im so fragile that I need a woman to pretend to have no say on major decisions or if I don't have the final say on something that I become feeling 'emasculated', give me a f*ckin break"
> 
> yh he's insulted and pissed off now


being surrendered, or submissive, doesnt mean you act like a idiot. It has nothing to do with intellect (my wife isn't stupid, nor does she pretend she is in fact on some things she is much more intelligent than i am) or not speaking up at all. In fact if you have insight that is in your families best interest common sense would be to inform your spouse of your knowledge. Geez. :lol: It is about respecting your husbands authority over you and submitting yourself to secondary role, out of choice. Giving this insight allows him to lead in a informed way. Not informing makes it more difficult for a husband to lead as he is lacking the information to make the decisions. The more information the better when deciding anything. If my wife has insight, i expect her to inform me. If there is something i dont know, i want her to explain it to me. So i can make a good decision on it. :scratchhead: The difference is, she stops on informing or giving her opinion. After that she accepts whatever i decide and respects the decision. She has become a little too opinionated at times, if she feels contrary to what i decide. Which makes me give it more thought as why she feels strongly against something. But never actually stands in the way or does the opposite, she follows through on what i decide..

course the other side of the coin is.
if she does something wrong i hear "well you are the one in charge of me" or if something doesnt work out i hear "well i did what you told me to do". so you have to really take that decision making seriously. :rofl:


----------



## bribrius

HopelesslyJaded said:


> It is nice you are happy but that is crap (bolded). Maybe I should pull a WorkingOnMe and correct it for you.
> 
> It takes a real one to love.


nothing to correct it works. we were with friends yesterday, and a coworker and friend asked me "your wife is always so happy, how do you do that?"

i dunno. i just let her have her natural place. Hadn't really given it much thought. :scratchhead: 
Took her a while to find it, but yeah, she is pretty happy most of the time.:scratchhead:

She just likes alot of attention. She thrives on it.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

bribrius said:


> nothing to correct it works. we were with friends yesterday, and a coworker and friend asked me "your wife is always so happy, how do you do that?"
> 
> i dunno. i just let her have her natural place. Hadn't really given it much thought. :scratchhead:
> Took her a while to find it, but yeah, she is pretty happy most of the time.:scratchhead:
> 
> She just likes alot of attention. She thrives on it.


It's great this works for the 2 of you but statements that in include "a real woman is this way" is crap. That is *your wife's* natural place within your relationship. 

It is not a "woman's place" in general


----------



## mandy123

bribrius said:


> Not true. In fact totally wrong. My wife is beyond surrendered, she is a submissive. This doesnt mean she cant give her opinion, in fact i want it. It means whatever i decide that is what happens. And i respect her more for her submission and hold her on a pedestal. Any woman can fight and argue. It takes a real one to submit and love. She puts a huge amount of trust in me. I cant even tell you how much value and devotion i have for her. What she gives me, i return. Perhaps not in the same way. But i guard her with my life. Not only wont i cheat. im protective as hell over her.
> 
> Now if i was with a woman that fought, argued, basically wasted my life and had not respect because it never seemed to end. i would have no respect for her, dislike her, and basically her value in my eyes would be about nil. As i would basically consider her useless and a waste of my time. Course i wouldnt be with a woman like that. Not only do i not believe in that type of relationship, life is to short to spend it with a headache.


hi this is great.

i really wish i could describe it as you have just put it i could not really explain what you had, i also tried to explain to people that i also am always stating my opinion to my husband he never shouts me down or belittles me in anyway, if he does not think my opinions right then he tells me he has the final word, and i except that and he very much respects me for it, i have so much trust in my husband.

my husband always shows me love and protects me and the children in everyway possible.

a man does not want a nagging wife to come home to someone who tells him hes wrong all the time, is moody and miserable all the time he wants to come home to a hug, and warm smile someone who his happy,to see him, i am not saying that you cant do this without being a surrendered wife i am just stating my opinion.

i believe that sometimes that there is a reason why people do cheat on there spouses and i truly believe that if a man is really happy and satisfied with his wife that he will stay faithful of course not all the time some people are just like this.

i mean for instance i was walking past a house today a woman was screaming and swearing at her husband the children was crying and i just had a really sad feeling inside, a marriage shouldent be like this, sometimes you need a little bit of give and take.

i am not saying that everybody should surrender i am just saying it is not as bad as it soundsxxx


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I'm with you. But don't start saying that betrayed wives are to blame for their husbands stepping out. Very bad idea.


----------



## that_girl

How about both spouses just live and let live with relationship boundaries that work for the both of them?

I mean, I don't nag or belittle or tell my husband what to do...but I also don't wait for him to "ok" everything i do. I live, he lives and we've agreed on some boundaries that keep us honest and respectful.

Just be friends. (and passionate lovers) ...but friends. Friends are a give and take with respect and love. I wouldn't submit to any of my friends, nor would I want the to submit to me. But we live and let live--- support and honor and have loyalty to one another.

Same as in my marriage. If there is a BIG decision, H and I talk...surely he would have the ultimate say but it would come after a lot of talking and if I was really against something, he wouldn't just go do it. I know this from experience. But it's not arguing, it's just talking. Like friends.


----------



## mandy123

we have both shown that it does work for us two, and believe it or not it has worked for many other people aswell it was even on one of the news channels in america, where they were talking of surrendered wives i think they said there was now over hundred thousand followers so it is more common now than you think it is so it does work for many other woman also.

i respect everybody lifestyles i am not saying i am more woman than anyone else i am just saying that this sort of lifestyle works for me, and i do not think its fair that people should put me down for it or say i am a doormat or i need to drop hints to my husband, or i am manipulating, because i am not.

our friends also comment on us why i am always smiling and laughing it is in fact down to my husband who has made me the woman i am today, and i am proud to be his wifexx


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

that_girl said:


> Same as in my marriage. If there is a BIG decision, H and I talk...*surely he would have the ultimate say* but it would come after a lot of talking and if I was really against something, he wouldn't just go do it. I know this from experience. But it's not arguing, it's just talking. Like friends.


I think you just described what they have in a different manner. LOL She said she gives her opinion but he gets the final say. Nobody has the ultimate say in my house. We discuss till we agree on one path or the other. Yes it can get stalemate sometimes but it's kind of like voting for President. You choose the lesser of the two evils in the end. TOGETHER.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

My wife is far from surrendered. I have to admit I kind of like when I have to push a bit to get what I want.


----------



## mandy123

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'm with you. But don't start saying that betrayed wives are to blame for their husbands stepping out. Very bad idea.


a very bad idea to you but not to me i have a opinion and just because mine is different to yours it dosent make yours right.

and please do not put words in my mouth i am not saying everyman is like this i just feel that a happy man is more less likely to cheat than a henpecked one.

of course not everyman, some cant help it like my first kids dad all he ever did was cheat on me.


----------



## that_girl

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I think you just described what they have in a different manner. LOL She said she gives her opinion but he gets the final say. Nobody has the ultimate say in my house. We discuss till we agree on one path or the other. Yes it can get stalemate sometimes but it's kind of like voting for President. You choose the lesser of the two evils in the end. TOGETHER.


Yea. that's great that works for you. We haven't had any big issues to deal with so...I don't know what would happen if I was really really against something. We have same goals, same wants. We want to move to Oregon someday...no argument from me. But he does lead our family. I like it that way. I don't want to be the man in the family. If that works for you, then that's great. I'm a happy woman. I have my career, my family, my husband, great sex. Life is good


----------



## mandy123

WorkingOnMe said:


> My wife is far from surrendered. I have to admit I kind of like when I have to push a bit to get what I want.


yes and that is your perogative and this is mine, we are all different, and my husband likes the fact that i am like the way i am towards him now, he likes having the dominate roll, and i enjoy pleasing him.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

that_girl said:


> Yea. that's great that works for you. We haven't had any big issues to deal with so...I don't know what would happen if I was really really against something. We have same goals, same wants. We want to move to Oregon someday...no argument from me. But he does lead our family. I like it that way. * I don't want to be the man in the family.* If that works for you, then that's great. I'm a happy woman. I have my career, my family, my husband, great sex. Life is good


The definition of what that means could also be up for debate.  I think it's one of those things that is also defined by each relationship.

I was just pointing out that what you described doesn't really sound different than what "the surrendered" have.


----------



## bribrius

that_girl said:


> How about both spouses just live and let live with relationship boundaries that work for the both of them?
> 
> I mean, I don't nag or belittle or tell my husband what to do...but I also don't wait for him to "ok" everything i do. I live, he lives and we've agreed on some boundaries that keep us honest and respectful.
> 
> Just be friends. (and passionate lovers) ...but friends. Friends are a give and take with respect and love. I wouldn't submit to any of my friends, nor would I want the to submit to me. But we live and let live--- support and honor and have loyalty to one another.
> 
> Same as in my marriage. If there is a BIG decision, H and I talk...surely he would have the ultimate say but it would come after a lot of talking and if I was really against something, he wouldn't just go do it. I know this from experience. But it's not arguing, it's just talking. Like friends.


couples interact differently. For us, she is basically on the extreme side of this role. So by default everything is on my plate to decide and be responsible for. And she will do what i tell her as she falls under my responsibility. She doesnt actually consider her responsible for herself, because with her unable to make the decisions or have a equal say the responsibility of herself goes to me. What has happend over time is certain things i repeatedly delegate back to her to decide. small things, things having to do with the children as often a mother knows best. Things necessary for her to decide to perform tasks i want her to do. So she has developed certain areas in which she knows she can make decisions. Lets face it, where as she may ask me what i prefer for dinner i dont want to plan our daily meals constantly. Since i delegate certain parts of the finances to her, i dont want a call from her on when she should pay the cellphone bill. If she cant figure out that then i probably picked the wrong wife. somethings, i just let her go. This isn't my area. So she has deveoped these areas in which she knows she can act independently. Otherwise i would have a huge headache with the constant questions.
In a way she acts somewhat like a employee, but obviously beyond that in a relationship way. But as far as delegating things to her she acts like a employee. 
Another difference is when she is opinionated on something, for instance something to do with the children. She basically pleas like a attorney in her favor, or what she believes is the kids favor like extra curriculiar activities or something. Or something she wants for the house (like the recent new suv we bought). So she goes into like attorney mode, pleaing her case. 
Then waits for the answer to see if she won what she wanted.


----------



## TiggyBlue

bribrius said:


> being surrendered, or submissive, doesnt mean you act like a idiot. It has nothing to do with intellect (my wife isn't stupid, nor does she pretend she is in fact on some things she is much more intelligent than i am) or not speaking up at all. In fact if you have insight that is in your families best interest common sense would be to inform your spouse of your knowledge. Geez. :lol: It is about respecting your husbands authority over you and submitting yourself to secondary role, out of choice. Giving this insight allows him to lead in a informed way. Not informing makes it more difficult for a husband to lead as he is lacking the information to make the decisions. The more information the better when deciding anything. If my wife has insight, i expect her to inform me. If there is something i dont know, i want her to explain it to me. So i can make a good decision on it. :scratchhead: The difference is, she stops on informing or giving her opinion. After that she accepts whatever i decide and respects the decision. She has become a little too opinionated at times, if she feels contrary to what i decide. Which makes me give it more thought as why she feels strongly against something. But never actually stands in the way or does the opposite, she follows through on what i decide..
> 
> course the other side of the coin is if she does something wrong i hear "well you are the one in charge of me" or if something doesnt work out i hear "well i did what you told me to do". so you have to really take that decision making seriously. :rofl:


I asked him what he would do in that instance because that was mentioned on the board, I explained in detail to him 'the surrendered wife' (I know the book well as I have done a thesis on it before).
My husband's not a man who would want authority over someone he loves and respect (he deffinantly wouldn't have married me if he did) and would frankly be annoyed if I let him have the final decision on everything (he doesn't view that as respect and love, he views it as weak).
But in all honesty I have never needed or wanted someone to lead or follow, we both stand together and sit down and compromise and decisions.
It does amaze me just how different people views on life and relationships can be neither is wrong or right, just different.


----------



## Coffee Amore

abitlost said:


> But in all honesty I have never needed or wanted someone to lead or follow, we both stand together and sit down and compromise and decisions.


This.

This is what my marriage is. Neither one leads the other. I don't need someone to lead me. I don't need to follow someone either. We talk, we compromise and we move on. That works very well for us.


----------



## Cosmos

mandy123 said:


> a very bad idea to you but not to me i have a opinion and just because mine is different to yours it dosent make yours right.
> 
> and please do not put words in my mouth i am not saying everyman is like this i just feel that a happy man is more less likely to cheat than a henpecked one.
> 
> of course not everyman, some cant help it like my first kids dad all he ever did was cheat on me.


And a happy, fulfilled wife is less likely to nag and cheat. Nagging and nitpicking isn't confined to women, Mandy. More than anything, IMO, emotional maturity, mutual respect and loyalty are the basic requirements for relationship success.


----------



## mandy123

that_girl said:


> Yea. that's great that works for you. We haven't had any big issues to deal with so...I don't know what would happen if I was really really against something. We have same goals, same wants. We want to move to Oregon someday...no argument from me. But he does lead our family. I like it that way. I don't want to be the man in the family. If that works for you, then that's great. I'm a happy woman. I have my career, my family, my husband, great sex. Life is good


same as me, we also havent had major issues, but i have to say i would still let my husband lead, were happy with this both of us, i am also a very happy woman with a great family and sex life.

i have noticed that there are a lot of people here who find it really offensive that i let my husband have the final say in our household, and he gets to say what goes, i think this is wrong if were happy with this then it shouldent be a problem unless they have issues in there relationship, and thats why some get angryxx


----------



## that_girl

I think we're both surrendered to each other. I have had the final say on a few things (like how to deal with some debt we have), and ther were no hard feelings. But I won't have a 'kept' man. I'm pretty easy going too. I don't have to fight for everything. I have my needs and they are met. Anything else is just fluff to me. I learned not to worry about the small shet. It does.not.matter. No sense in arguing every damn thing just because I want to be 'right' or whatever. I couldn't deal with stalemates in this house...same as I hate voting for President. Just make a decision and be solid in it. Unless I am fully against it, I won't care. I trust my husband will lead our family in the right direction.


----------



## mandy123

Cosmos said:


> And a happy, fulfilled wife is less likely to nag and cheat. Nagging and nitpicking isn't confined to women, Mandy. More than anything, IMO, emotional maturity, mutual respect and loyalty are the basic requirements for relationship success.


i know its not confined to woman, we have respect and loyalty and were happy i do not think that people on here should put other people down for there way of life thats all.xx


----------



## that_girl

Sometimes I don't want to compromise. Sometimes he doesn't want to compromise. So we just don't make a big deal about it. I can't compromise everything. I wouldn't expect him to compromise everything.

But I still like relying on my husband to lead our family. But that's because I trust him. Maybe that comes from years of me being single for so long and having that role. I'm over it.


----------



## mandy123

that_girl said:


> I think we're both surrendered to each other. I have had the final say on a few things (like how to deal with some debt we have), and ther were no hard feelings. But I won't have a 'kept' man. I'm pretty easy going too. I don't have to fight for everything. I have my needs and they are met. Anything else is just fluff to me. I learned not to worry about the small shet. It does.not.matter. No sense in arguing every damn thing just because I want to be 'right' or whatever. I couldn't deal with stalemates in this house...same as I hate voting for President. Just make a decision and be solid in it. Unless I am fully against it, I won't care. I trust my husband will lead our family in the right direction.


i really love the way you describe things i cant really say what i need to say really without people thinking im being funny if you know what i mean, you put things very well and i agree with you totally:smthumbup:


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## mandy123

that_girl said:


> Sometimes I don't want to compromise. Sometimes he doesn't want to compromise. So we just don't make a big deal about it. I can't compromise everything. I wouldn't expect him to compromise everything.
> 
> But I still like relying on my husband to lead our family. But that's because I trust him. Maybe that comes from years of me being single for so long and having that role. I'm over it.


amen to what you just saidxx


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## that_girl

But I'm hardly "weak" or a doormat. 

but people will think what they want.


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## mandy123

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I think you just described what they have in a different manner. LOL She said she gives her opinion but he gets the final say. Nobody has the ultimate say in my house. We discuss till we agree on one path or the other. Yes it can get stalemate sometimes but it's kind of like voting for President. You choose the lesser of the two evils in the end. TOGETHER.


oh we discuss things in our household i just respect my husband, and if he thinks that his idea is the better one then i trust him enough, to go with his judgement.

who knows if its the right one or not but i enjoy keeping my husband happy him and my family are my life i trust him with my lifexx


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## mandy123

that_girl said:


> But I'm hardly "weak" or a doormat.
> 
> but people will think what they want.


thats the bit that really annoys me, i am not a doormat and i am in no way weak either, but like you say people will believe what they wantxx


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## Cosmos

mandy123 said:


> i know its not confined to woman, we have respect and loyalty and were happy i do not think that people on here should put other people down for there way of life thats all.xx


I don't think that anyone is putting anyone else down for their way of life, Mandy. I think we're all just giving our opinions, based on our own values and beliefs.


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## TiggyBlue

I honestly wasn't saying your weak people at all, I was saying that's how my husband would view me if it was a given he would have final say over everything.


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## mandy123

Cosmos said:


> I don't think that anyone is putting anyone else down for their way of life, Mandy. I think we're all just giving our opinions, based on our own values and beliefs.


sorry maybe i was being a little bit defensive then, its hard to know sometimes, i was on another site the other day and i got them to deactivate my account after one day as i had a lot of abuse from people for telling them i was a surrendered wife it was very quite hurtful.

i understand that you are giving your opinions i really am not looking for an argument just letting people see my way of lifexxx


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## mandy123

abitlost said:


> I honestly wasn't saying your weak people at all, I was saying that's how my husband would view me if it was a given he would have final say over everything.


i understand everyone is different tho, every marriage is, my husband on the otherhand loves having the final say.xx


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## cloudwithleggs

Apparently there are rules that must be followed by the wife.

*Compassionate and practical, The Surrendered Wife is a step-by-step guide that teaches women how to:

Give up unnecessary control and responsibility
Resist the temptation to criticize, belittle, or dismiss their husbands
Trust their husbands in every aspect of marriage -- from sexual to financial
And more.*

no one should be criticizing, belittling or dismissing, whether it be wife or husband, it's called being decent and respectful of each other, if one breaks that boundary, the surrendered wife says nothing as per the rules.

So if the husband wants something sexual the wife doesn't like, even if it hurts she has to trust his judgement in all sexual matters, i think this is obscene.

As for trusting finances, why, a marriage should be a team, not a boss and a servant/slave as this is what it is really, the wife is giving up freedom to express her wishes, i condemn such an idea to the back of creation.

I can say now if i'd let my estrange have control of my finances i would have no home as i provided the roof above my children's head and all it contains, as he was already bankrupt and is heading that way again, i personally have never been in debt.

Well each to their own and i chose the freedom to express my thoughts and opinions in a relationship.


----------



## FirstYearDown

If I was a surrendered wife, my husband would leave me because he likes strong women. He is not attracted to foolish ladies who just say "Whatever you want, honey. You know best."  Yuck.

My husband and I have agreed on what we would each like to be in charge of. We still get input and opinions from each other on these aspects, but one of us makes the final choice.

For example, we are buying a lot of new furniture. My husband doesn't care very much about decorating so I choose what I want and ask his opinion. Since he is a forestry engineer, my husband is able to tell me if the wood used in the pieces I like is high quality. If he has a strong dislike for something, we don't buy it. 

My husband handles the finances because he is naturally better at that than I am. I have educated myself on our financial situation and offered my suggestions. If I do not agree with my husband making a large purchase, he will not buy that item. We were sinking *thousands *into maintaining his ten year old Saab, until the last repair which would have cost close to *$3,000.* I stopped the insanity and asked my husband to put down money on a new car instead. I found an employee pricing event for Fords. Now my husband is happier and not stressed about pricey car repairs. 

It is about respect and appreciating each other's strong points.


----------



## mandy123

cloudwithleggs said:


> Apparently there are rules that must be followed by the wife.
> 
> *Compassionate and practical, The Surrendered Wife is a step-by-step guide that teaches women how to:
> 
> Give up unnecessary control and responsibility
> Resist the temptation to criticize, belittle, or dismiss their husbands
> Trust their husbands in every aspect of marriage -- from sexual to financial
> And more.*
> 
> no one should be criticizing, belittling or dismissing, whether it be wife or husband, it's called being decent and respectful of each other, if one breaks that boundary, the surrendered wife says nothing as per the rules.
> 
> So if the husband wants something sexual the wife doesn't like, even if it hurts she has to trust his judgement in all sexual matters, i think this is obscene.
> 
> As for trusting finances, why, a marriage should be a team, not a boss and a servant/slave as this is what it is really, the wife is giving up freedom to express her wishes, i condemn such an idea to the back of creation.
> 
> I can say now if i'd let my estrange have control of my finances i would have no home as i provided the roof above my children's head and all it contains, as he was already bankrupt and is heading that way again, i personally have never been in debt.
> 
> Well each to their own and i chose the freedom to express my thoughts and opinions in a relationship.


to start of with my husband has nothing but respect for me he never ever puts me down at all, true if he says something i do not like which is not often then yes i will sit and say nothing if it stops an argument from happening.

my husband would NEVER do anything in the bedroom that would hurt me in fact he often asks me if i am comftable when were having sex, thats absurd.

with the finances i feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders since my husband has taken over i no longer need to lose sleep worrying if i am doing it right, now everything is paid on time we are debt free and i more a less have everything we need or could afford.

i am not a slave/servant and i do not feel like one and why would i ????

if looking after the house making my husband a nice cooked meal, respecting him, making him happy is a crime, well i do not know what to say i am very happy doing these things and if i am happy then why not????

if there is something i wish i would ask him, if he did not like it then i will respect his wishes.

i respect your opinions i really do but for what dosent work for some works for others, and everybody has a right to live the way they want to live, i wouldent put your way of life down because this is the way you choose to live it.

my husband would not do anything to bankrupt himself hes very good with money i dont think he ever has been bankrupt, he works very hard all day, and he looks after us, yes he pays all bills, etc and he is happy to do it this way.

all i can say is i am really happy since i have been a surrendered wife, i can tell you are really sickened by this concept, and i can accept that but we are all different and we all like to do things differently and thats the way of the world, i do not see anything changing, and to be honest there is nothing i would change, i am one happy wife and motherxxx


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## mandy123

FirstYearDown said:


> If I was a surrendered wife, my husband would leave me because he likes strong women. He is not attracted to foolish ladies who just say "Whatever you want, honey. You know best."  Yuck.
> 
> My husband and I have agreed on what we would each like to be in charge of. We still get input and opinions from each other on these aspects, but one of us makes the final choice.
> 
> For example, we are buying a lot of new furniture. My husband doesn't care very much about decorating so I choose what I want and ask his opinion. Since he is a forestry engineer, my husband is able to tell me if the wood used in the pieces I like is high quality. If he has a strong dislike for something, we don't buy it.
> 
> My husband handles the finances because he is naturally better at that than I am. I have educated myself on our financial situation and offered my suggestions. If I do not agree with my husband making a large purchase, he will not buy that item. We were sinking *thousands *into maintaining his ten year old Saab, until the last repair which would have cost close to *$3,000.* I stopped the insanity and asked my husband to put down money on a new car instead. I found an employee pricing event for Fords. Now my husband is happier and not stressed about pricey car repairs.
> 
> It is about respect and appreciating each other's strong points.


sorry but i am a strong woman, i really people would stop insinuating that i am weak, just because of a lifestyle i choose to lead.

i do not just say whatever you want honey rolls eyes, we have conversations about a lot of things, i just choose to accept that my husband has got good judgement,

i have 5 children and a home to look after, you have to be strong to look after a 17 and 16 year old teenagers lol, this is not about being weak at all and my husband would never class me as being weak.


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## missmolly

from the website 

http://surrendered.blog.com/sex-and-submission/

mmmm food for thought. Comments??


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## COguy

missmolly said:


> from the website
> 
> http://surrendered.blog.com/sex-and-submission/
> 
> mmmm food for thought. Comments??


As a christian I take offense at just the overall weirdness of that page...

Good lord...

Can we just say, "If you are horny get freaky with your spouse any way you want and feel good about it?"

Do we really have to pretend like there are bible verses that specifically mention BDSM? Creepy!


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## ScarletBegonias

I imagine this way of life works for many women.Personally, I think you have to be strong in order to have the willpower and mental fortitude it must take to be a surrendered wife.It isn't easy to bite your tongue and let someone else take over.

If you want to be surrendered my only hope is that you aren't blind while surrendering.There are men out there who will take advantage of the surrendered wife situation.If you're strong enough to be surrendered then you also need to be strong enough to stand up when you're being taken advantage of no matter what the cost.
I think it takes a special kind of man to have a surrendered wife.One that is trustworthy,honest,and not power hungry.

As a side note...there IS more than one definition for the ever popular label of "Strong Female".


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## Starstarfish

I think one of the difficulties with the wife (or either spouse for that matter) turning over the handling of all important decisions to their spouse, is that if something tragic happens to the "leading" spouse, or the relationship, they can be so totally out of touch with what is going on, it can just compound the tragedy. 

My grandparents had a relationship like this. She didn't get involved in the financials or the "heavy burdens." She had no idea that they were barely treading water, not making enough money, etc. Then unfortunately, Grandpa got ill, and in short order passed away. In the aftermath, she had no idea how to handle anything, including money, despite a life insurance policy. The house got foreclosed, it became a nightmare. 

My mother in law lives this way too. She remarked to me once that she doesn't know how to -pump gas.- Because her husband has always pumped it for her. Again, what will happen if/when something happens to him and she's left needing to take care of herself, will she be able to?

Being a surrendered wife is a heavy theme in the local religious circle, talked about constantly in sermons, in marriage counseling. They emphasize male dominance both in religious and domestic matters. And from my experience within that circle, while this makes mighty happy marriages for the men, the women aren't really happy as much as they put on that Stepford wife front for the public good. I've heard secret confessions of deeply desired abortions/resented children because the husband decided they needed more, and that was his right. Obedience (AKA being surrendered) is the most important trait in a female spouse, not shared hobbies or interests, not companionship. The spouses rarely do activities together, and indeed, the fact that me and my husband did was a shock and seen as abnormal.

So - while this might work for some people, others seem to take it to the extreme. And - as others point out, not every man can fill this role. Also, is the worst thing that can happen in a marriage really an argument?


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## FirstYearDown

mandy123 said:


> sorry but i am a strong woman, i really people would stop insinuating that i am weak, just because of a lifestyle i choose to lead.
> 
> i do not just say whatever you want honey rolls eyes, we have conversations about a lot of things, i just choose to accept that my husband has got good judgement,
> 
> i have 5 children and a home to look after, you have to be strong to look after a 17 and 16 year old teenagers lol, this is not about being weak at all and my husband would never class me as being weak.


:scratchhead: I was talking about _myself_, not you or anyone else. 

I accept that my husband has good judgement in some areas and I have better judgement in others.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FirstYearDown said:


> :scratchhead: I was talking about _myself_, not you or anyone else.
> 
> I accept that my husband has good judgement in some areas and I have better judgement in others.


For sure! That's why even though I don't work outside the home I still handle the finances! Years ago he felt "controlled" by this and I split everything. 2 months later when he handed his part back to me it was all a month behind and I had to get it back on track. I am also the one that negotiates when we buy vehicles. That one really throws them for loop because the salesman ALWAYS looks at the man. 

He's Mr. Fixit though. He can usually get things running when it stops working. (although I can change oil and a tire on a car)


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## mandy123

COguy said:


> As a christian I take offense at just the overall weirdness of that page...
> 
> Good lord...
> 
> Can we just say, "If you are horny get freaky with your spouse any way you want and feel good about it?"
> 
> Do we really have to pretend like there are bible verses that specifically mention BDSM? Creepy!


i found it a little weird, i have to say my husband is gentle and loving in bed nothing like i read on that page.

i am not a christian i do not read the bible just for the recordxx


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## mandy123

ScarletBegonias said:


> I imagine this way of life works for many women.Personally, I think you have to be strong in order to have the willpower and mental fortitude it must take to be a surrendered wife.It isn't easy to bite your tongue and let someone else take over.
> 
> If you want to be surrendered my only hope is that you aren't blind while surrendering.There are men out there who will take advantage of the surrendered wife situation.If you're strong enough to be surrendered then you also need to be strong enough to stand up when you're being taken advantage of no matter what the cost.
> I think it takes a special kind of man to have a surrendered wife.One that is trustworthy,honest,and not power hungry.
> 
> As a side note...there IS more than one definition for the ever popular label of "Strong Female".


i really agree with the way you have worded this, you are so right in a lot of ways there is a lot of woman this would work for and a lot of woman that it would not work for, and you are so right when you say it does take a strong woman to surrender, that is why it makes me angry when people say that a surrendered wife is weak, this is not the case, me myself have never been weak but it does depend on the woman.

of course there would be a lot of men out there that would take advantage of a surrendered wife, thats why people need to decide if it really is for them or not, if the man is a serial cheat, an abuser, gambler, then of course the book surrendered wife says that it is not the way to go.

its true what you say if i felt i was being taken advantage of then i should step up and say, but i can honestly say i have never felt like this, i know for some this would be hard for them to believe.

like you say he does need to be a special kind of man and my husband is trustworthy, and honest, and he is in no way power hungry, but i know there is some out there that is.

i think that there are probably different kinds of surrendered housewives out there no two surrendered housewives are probably the same, each will do things differently, i havent spoken directly to another, only through web pages.

i just do things the way i feel i should do them.xxx


----------



## mandy123

Starstarfish said:


> I think one of the difficulties with the wife (or either spouse for that matter) turning over the handling of all important decisions to their spouse, is that if something tragic happens to the "leading" spouse, or the relationship, they can be so totally out of touch with what is going on, it can just compound the tragedy.
> 
> My grandparents had a relationship like this. She didn't get involved in the financials or the "heavy burdens." She had no idea that they were barely treading water, not making enough money, etc. Then unfortunately, Grandpa got ill, and in short order passed away. In the aftermath, she had no idea how to handle anything, including money, despite a life insurance policy. The house got foreclosed, it became a nightmare.
> 
> My mother in law lives this way too. She remarked to me once that she doesn't know how to -pump gas.- Because her husband has always pumped it for her. Again, what will happen if/when something happens to him and she's left needing to take care of herself, will she be able to?
> 
> Being a surrendered wife is a heavy theme in the local religious circle, talked about constantly in sermons, in marriage counseling. They emphasize male dominance both in religious and domestic matters. And from my experience within that circle, while this makes mighty happy marriages for the men, the women aren't really happy as much as they put on that Stepford wife front for the public good. I've heard secret confessions of deeply desired abortions/resented children because the husband decided they needed more, and that was his right. Obedience (AKA being surrendered) is the most important trait in a female spouse, not shared hobbies or interests, not companionship. The spouses rarely do activities together, and indeed, the fact that me and my husband did was a shock and seen as abnormal.
> 
> So - while this might work for some people, others seem to take it to the extreme. And - as others point out, not every man can fill this role. Also, is the worst thing that can happen in a marriage really an argument?


if anything happened to my husband i would certainly know what to do, before i met my husband i was a single mother of 3 the childrens dad had little time for the children and i did everything myself, so its not like that with me not knowing what to do because i would know how to cope lol, have done before i was a surrendered housewife.

i am not a christian and i do not go to church either.

i can tell you that i am 100% happy i do not need to put on a front, we have many friends, we also do all our activities together when my husband is not working which is at the weekend, as he works 5 days a week, we also share the same interests with our group of friends.

on a saturday night we actually hold a party which i host NOT my husband, he actually cooks the food, i look after the guests and the children.

so i have really proven that a lot of the things you have said are false, and no of course its not the worse thing that could happen is an argument but i feel a relationship is healthier without them but that is my opinionxxx


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## Starstarfish

You proved they were false in your situation, Mandy, but that doesn't suddenly make false the situations I've observed. Thus, I stand by my assessment that there can indeed be problems with totally handing over everything to one spouse with the "final say."

So, it goes back to what other people say - this works in your situation, but in a lot of cases, it hasn't, or wouldn't, or people wouldn't want it to.


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## TiggyBlue

I deffinantly think if a woman hasn't ever lived on her own or single for a few years before becoming a surrendered wife Starstarfish's assesment has some very valid points.


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## mandy123

Starstarfish said:


> You proved they were false in your situation, Mandy, but that doesn't suddenly make false the situations I've observed. Thus, I stand by my assessment that there can indeed be problems with totally handing over everything to one spouse with the "final say."
> 
> So, it goes back to what other people say - this works in your situation, but in a lot of cases, it hasn't, or wouldn't, or people wouldn't want it to.


thankyou yes you are so right it does work for me and i understand totally, that it would not work for everyone, every one does things differently where things work for some it would not work for others and i totally respect thisxx


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## mandy123

abitlost said:


> I deffinantly think if a woman hasn't ever lived on her own or single for a few years before becoming a surrendered wife Starstarfish's assesment has some very valid points.


yes totally, if someone does not know what it is like to be single i see how this would be a problem, but for me i have been single also so i know what it entails xx:smthumbup:


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## Starstarfish

Yes, Abitlost, totally, which I think was probably the main contributing problem in the situations I mention. 

They went right from high school/college into the surrendered wife role. Some (or most) have never worked jobs, they never had bills, they never lived anywhere by themselves. They were never "single" in making their own decisions, and understanding the consequences. They have always had someone else there for them. 

Which, can be a very precarious situation if/when there is a divorce or a death.


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## CallaLily

So is surrendered the same thing as submissive? Sorry didn't all the replies, especially since this post was from like 2009.


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## that_girl

Everyone is good at different things. My husband is good with money and investments. I am good at budgeting and not procrastinating. He is good at mopping floors (woot!) and I am good at cleaning bathrooms (I have to do that MY way lol). He is good at fixing cars, I am good at tending the garden.

Just figure out what needs to be done and do it. 

I can't think of one time where he had the "final say" that I wasn't ok with it or that he even had it. I'd like to think I'm not always fighting for some imaginary power. Our marriage isn't a power struggle, thankfully. 

I think lots of people want things done their way so they do try to control EVERYTHING. I was once like this and almost lost my marriage because of it. Therapy helped me just relax and chill the eff out and let people just do what they do. I've been a better wife and mother because of it.


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## mandy123

CallaLily said:


> So is surrendered the same thing as submissive? Sorry didn't all the replies, especially since this post was from like 2009.


hi nice to speak to you, yes submissive and surrendered are more or less the same thingxx


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## bribrius

abitlost said:


> I asked him what he would do in that instance because that was mentioned on the board, I explained in detail to him 'the surrendered wife' (I know the book well as I have done a thesis on it before).
> My husband's not a man who would want authority over someone he loves and respect (he deffinantly wouldn't have married me if he did) and would frankly be annoyed if I let him have the final decision on everything (he doesn't view that as respect and love, he views it as weak).
> But in all honesty I have never needed or wanted someone to lead or follow, we both stand together and sit down and compromise and decisions.
> It does amaze me just how different people views on life and relationships can be neither is wrong or right, just different.


with me i think it isnt that i want authority. But take it as a result of someone having a effect on my life and what im doing. so i may not actually be as dominant as i appear. My wife is much more a submissive than i am a dominant. But because im so anti b.s. and dont like people in general screwing with my life i take a very "do what i say" role. Not a dominant because i enjoy being a dominant, but a dominant out of necessity because im so intolerant of having my life screwed with. I dont get off on assuming a dominant position. Generally speaking, im usually happier not in the dominant role but just being left totally alone. For me to have any relationship, i have to take the dominant role. Unless the woman is a cactus and wants about that level of a relationship. If they dont effect anything in my life, i really dont care what they do. I take on the dominant role when im forced to interact with people and they start to effect things im doing.
if i am the main supporter, i take the dominant role in the finances. if i have children, i take the dominant role over the children. if i have a relationship that is beyond superficial, i take the dominant role in the relationship. Employees i take the dominant role. Business ventures i take a dominant role. The other side of that is though, if im left alone, generally speaking. im pretty content and dont try to take anything dominant but what is necessary for my career or for my side ventures. so i really am just controlling over what seems to effect me, or what i take a responsibility for. But if something comes under my umbrella, i feel entered my "area" or space sort of speak. This is my "area" so dont screw with it. i naturally assume a dominant role. Could be out of fear of them screwing up something on me and the fact i cant stand being controlled at all. i like to be left alone. My wife on the other hand, seems to more naturally assume a submissive role. where as with me it changes depending on how much i feel it necessary to take a dominant position. Dominant for me is reactionary and directly correlates with the amount of involvement in my life someone has and what seems necessary.. On online tests i actually score near zero on dependency (wife is WAY up on dependency and a little high on narcissitic) and i score real high on antisocial and schizoid. Might explain the "if im left alone i dont care what you do" and the other extreme i have on taking control when i see involvment in my life. I basically require very little attention and am very independent.
yeah, im not the compromising type. Im pretty much a straight edge and i draw very distinct lines. :lol: She is pretty much a natural sub, but with a hidden vindictiveness if she doesnt get due attention.. So this is kind of how we interact.
We were both raised to be in these roles somewhat as well, from upbringing so we assume them more readily than most.


----------



## TiggyBlue

bribrius said:


> with me i think it isnt that i want authority. But take it as a result of someone having a effect on my life and what im doing. so i may not actually be as dominant as i appear. My wife is much more a submissive than i am a dominant. But because im so anti b.s. and dont like people in general screwing with my life i take a very "do what i say" role. Not a dominant because i enjoy being a dominant, but a dominant out of necessity because im so intolerant of having my life screwed with. I dont get off on assuming a dominant position. Generally speaking, im usually happier not in the dominant role but just being left totally alone. For me to have any relationship, i have to take the dominant role. Unless the woman is a cactus and wants about that level of a relationship. If they dont effect anything in my life, i really dont care what they do. I take on the dominant role when im forced to interact with people and they start to effect things im doing.
> if i am the main supporter, i take the dominant role in the finances. if i have children, i take the dominant role over the children. if i have a relationship that is beyond superficial, i take the dominant role in the relationship. Employees i take the dominant role. Business ventures i take a dominant role. The other side of that is though, if im left alone, generally speaking. im pretty content and dont try to take anything dominant but what is necessary for my career or for my side ventures. so i really am just controlling over what seems to effect me, or what i take a responsibility for. But if something comes under my umbrella, i feel entered my "area" or space sort of speak. This is my "area" so dont screw with it. i naturally assume a dominant role. Could be out of fear of them screwing up something on me and the fact i cant stand being controlled at all. i like to be left alone. My wife on the other hand, seems to more naturally assume a submissive role. where as with me it changes depending on how much i feel it necessary to take a dominant position. Dominant for me is reactionary and directly correlates with the amount of involvement in my life someone has and what seems necessary.. On online tests i actually score near zero on dependency (wife is WAY up on dependency and a little high on narcissitic) and i score real high on antisocial and schizoid. Might explain the "if im left alone i dont care what you do" and the other extreme i have on taking control when i see involvment in my life. I basically require very little attention and am very independent.
> yeah, im not the compromising type. Im pretty much a straight edge and i draw very distinct lines. :lol: She is pretty much a natural sub, but with a hidden vindictiveness if she doesnt get due attention.. So this is kind of how we interact.
> We were both raised to be in these roles somewhat as well, from upbringing so we assume them more readily than most.


so it's abit more 'if your in my life I say what happens, if you don't like it go away', or am I not understanding correctly?


----------



## bribrius

abitlost said:


> so it's abit more 'if your in my life I say what happens, if you don't like it go away', or am I not understanding correctly?


yeah, pretty much. what is hilarious is how my wife and i interact. Because we both have sort of a "streak". Her narc side has just above drove me under before. And all she wanted was more attention. :scratchhead: If we were with anybody else it wouldnt go well. But somehow our traits give both of us a run for our money. And we end up balancing somewhere . If she was with someone else, i dont think she would submit. i think she would drive them to suicide. im not sure if i could carry on a relationship with many people. im to nonexistant. But it seems to work with her because she DEMANDS attention and if i dont give her it she will make me pay for it. She doesnt care about control, she cares about attention. She can also lead from a submissive stance. She has done it when she was really pissed. i dont know why it is this way. At odds, but we mix somehow.


----------



## mandy123

bribrius said:


> with me i think it isnt that i want authority. But take it as a result of someone having a effect on my life and what im doing. so i may not actually be as dominant as i appear. My wife is much more a submissive than i am a dominant. But because im so anti b.s. and dont like people in general screwing with my life i take a very "do what i say" role. Not a dominant because i enjoy being a dominant, but a dominant out of necessity because im so intolerant of having my life screwed with. I dont get off on assuming a dominant position. Generally speaking, im usually happier not in the dominant role but just being left totally alone. For me to have any relationship, i have to take the dominant role. Unless the woman is a cactus and wants about that level of a relationship. If they dont effect anything in my life, i really dont care what they do. I take on the dominant role when im forced to interact with people and they start to effect things im doing.
> if i am the main supporter, i take the dominant role in the finances. if i have children, i take the dominant role over the children. if i have a relationship that is beyond superficial, i take the dominant role in the relationship. Employees i take the dominant role. Business ventures i take a dominant role. The other side of that is though, if im left alone, generally speaking. im pretty content and dont try to take anything dominant but what is necessary for my career or for my side ventures. so i really am just controlling over what seems to effect me, or what i take a responsibility for. But if something comes under my umbrella, i feel entered my "area" or space sort of speak. This is my "area" so dont screw with it. i naturally assume a dominant role. Could be out of fear of them screwing up something on me and the fact i cant stand being controlled at all. i like to be left alone. My wife on the other hand, seems to more naturally assume a submissive role. where as with me it changes depending on how much i feel it necessary to take a dominant position. Dominant for me is reactionary and directly correlates with the amount of involvement in my life someone has and what seems necessary.. On online tests i actually score near zero on dependency (wife is WAY up on dependency and a little high on narcissitic) and i score real high on antisocial and schizoid. Might explain the "if im left alone i dont care what you do" and the other extreme i have on taking control when i see involvment in my life. I basically require very little attention and am very independent.
> yeah, im not the compromising type. Im pretty much a straight edge and i draw very distinct lines. :lol: She is pretty much a natural sub, but with a hidden vindictiveness if she doesnt get due attention.. So this is kind of how we interact.
> We were both raised to be in these roles somewhat as well, from upbringing so we assume them more readily than most.


hi, so basically what you are saying that you also take the dominant roll, and by the sounds of it you enjoy it, and your wife enjoys the fact that you are dominant???

so your wife does not call herself a surrendered wife???? she is just submissive by nature, it sounds like it by what you're saying.


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## bribrius

mandy123 said:


> hi, so basically what you are saying that you also take the dominant roll, and by the sounds of it you enjoy it, and your wife enjoys the fact that you are dominant???
> 
> so your wife does not call herself a surrendered wife???? she is just submissive by nature, it sounds like it by what you're saying.


i take a dominant role. But it is more out of default and necessity for me. im naturally probably a "just leave me alone" kind of person. It is necessity for me if i interact or have people involved in my life. My wife is a naturally submissive, but she is more dependent and also has a narc streak. So for someone else, i think she would be submissive but not to the extent she is with me. And she would probably drive them nuts.
She doesnt call herself a surrendered wife. She calls herself a submissive wife, or a submissive. She is basically a submissive. You but more on the extreme side. Kind of like you, but she is a little further to the extreme. My wife needs me to be dominant. Anything else i have tried she rebels. She is dependent and submissive. If i try to push her to be less dependent and take on more of a independent role she flips out. She would have no problem if i put her in the corner to punish her. But if i stop controlling her or she doesnt get what she sees as her due attention she goes on a rampage. It isnt just that she enjoys being a submissive. She needs it. She wants someone over her. She is very needy in that sense. would drive a lot of men off the deep end in retaliation for them not giving her that role or allowing her to be dependent.

example? i gave her a good portion of the finances to take over once. she didnt want them. said it wasnt her job. her mother even told me not to, wasnt her job. my mother told me not to. wasnt my wifes job. i did it anyway. Figure let her take on more responsibility. So my wife just didnt do it, put near everything on autopay. And just didnt do anything after that. She refused. i had no idea. Then she didnt tell me. few months later i find out the house is in foreclosure. i had to go bail it out and pay a attorney. i asked her why she never paid it. she said "it isnt my responsibility that is yours." 
we had plenty of money in the accounts. she just never did it. she let it go under just to spite me for putting her in that position. she wants no part of it. if i tell her to do individual things, directly, for finances she goes and does them. submissive. i hand over too much to her, give her more independence and a dominant role she rebels. i also wasnt giving her as much attention in the same period. she made me pay for it. But she forecloses the house. i dont flip out i just get it back out. Then i tell her to go stand in the corner she is a "bad girl". She stands in the corner for a few minutes. i let her out. its over . 
Cost me ten k but whatever. lesson learned. that is us. she is a submissive.
Another guy would freak she foreclosed the house, another woman would freak over their husband telling them to stand in the corner. we just, meet somewhere. i dont know how. we just do. She is a submissive. But wil push from the bottom if you dont let her have her role. And if she doesnt get attention there is hell to pay. I can tell her to do about anything and she will do it though. Long as she sees it is on the submissive side. She has her view of her position and she stands by it, it is very distinct in her mind. I push her out of that role she goes on a rampage.


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## mandy123

bribrius said:


> i take a dominant role. But it is more out of default and necessity for me. im naturally probably a "just leave me alone" kind of person. It is necessity for me if i interact or have people involved in my life. My wife is a naturally submissive, but she is more dependent and also has a narc streak. So for someone else, i think she would be submissive but not to the extent she is with me. And she would probably drive them nuts.
> She doesnt call herself a surrendered wife. She calls herself a submissive wife, or a submissive. She is basically a submissive. You but more on the extreme side. Kind of like you, but she is a little further to the extreme. My wife needs me to be dominant. Anything else i have tried she rebels. She is dependent and submissive. If i try to push her to be less dependent and take on more of a independent role she flips out. She would have no problem if i put her in the corner to punish her. But if i stop controlling her or she doesnt get what she sees as her due attention she goes on a rampage. It isnt just that she enjoys being a submissive. She needs it. She wants someone over her. She is very needy in that sense. would drive a lot of men off the deep end in retaliation for them not giving her that role or allowing her to be dependent.
> 
> example? i gave her a good portion of the finances to take over once. she didnt want them. said it wasnt her job. her mother even told me not to, wasnt her job. my mother told me not to. wasnt my wifes job. i did it anyway. Figure let her take on more responsibility. So my wife just didnt do it, put near everything on autopay. And just didnt do anything after that. She refused. i had no idea. Then she didnt tell me. few months later i find out the house is in foreclosure. i had to go bail it out and pay a attorney. i asked her why she never paid it. she said "it isnt my responsibility that is yours."
> we had plenty of money in the accounts. she just never did it. she let it go under just to spite me for putting her in that position. she wants no part of it. if i tell her to do individual things, directly, for finances she goes and does them. submissive. i hand over too much to her, give her more independence and a dominant role she rebels. i also wasnt giving her as much attention in the same period. she made me pay for it. But she forecloses the house. i dont flip out i just get it back out. Then i tell her to go stand in the corner she is a "bad girl". She stands in the corner for a few minutes. i let her out. its over .
> Cost me ten k but whatever. lesson learned. that is us. she is a submissive.
> Another guy would freak she foreclosed the house, another woman would freak over their husband telling them to stand in the corner. we just, meet somewhere. i dont know how. we just do. She is a submissive. But wil push from the bottom if you dont let her have her role. And if she doesnt get attention there is hell to pay. I can tell her to do about anything and she will do it though. Long as she sees it is on the submissive side. She has her view of her position and she stands by it, it is very distinct in her mind. I push her out of that role she goes on a rampage.


right i get you so by what you're saying if you wasent dominant she wouldent know what to do, my husband has never told me to stand in a corner, if he asked me then i probaly would, but that has never really happened so who knows really.

you say she is submissive, but surrendering is really just the same in my book it falls in the same thing, my husband does deal with all the finance decisions, i am happy with that, he has always dealt with that in our marriage, the family is never without anything.

i have to say my husband is always giving me and the children attention i feel blessed i really doxxxx


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## Trenton

surrendered: 
1. Cease resistance to an enemy or opponent and submit to their authority.
2. Give up or hand over (a person, right, or possession), typically on compulsion or demand. 

I don't consider my husband an enemy or opponent. I also am not one to give up or hand over things on compulsion or demand(certainly not a right or a person!)

This is really an issue of control and the person who is in need of it most likely has an issue with one of the following: self worth, narcissism and/or security.

The person who surrenders must feel they are not capable and/or deserving and also has an issue with security.

Can one or both be happy in a relationship that is very childlike? Maybe? I think it would meet their needs and provide security and a shelter from the issues that allowed them to feel they must dominate/surrender.

Is it a healthy place to be? Ah, healthy is so relative so I can't say. The only big issue I would see is that since both partners have issues that make them vulnerable to such a dynamic in a relationship, they are most likely passing the issues the dynamic in the relationship covers up onto their children without truly understanding it.

It's one thing to role-play in the bedroom but quite another to take on one clear role that overflows to all parts of your life and defines you so rigidly.


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## TiggyBlue

bribrius said:


> i take a dominant role. But it is more out of default and necessity for me. im naturally probably a "just leave me alone" kind of person. It is necessity for me if i interact or have people involved in my life. My wife is a naturally submissive, but she is more dependent and also has a narc streak. So for someone else, i think she would be submissive but not to the extent she is with me. And she would probably drive them nuts.
> She doesnt call herself a surrendered wife. She calls herself a submissive wife, or a submissive. She is basically a submissive. You but more on the extreme side. Kind of like you, but she is a little further to the extreme. My wife needs me to be dominant. Anything else i have tried she rebels. She is dependent and submissive. If i try to push her to be less dependent and take on more of a independent role she flips out. She would have no problem if i put her in the corner to punish her. But if i stop controlling her or she doesnt get what she sees as her due attention she goes on a rampage. It isnt just that she enjoys being a submissive. She needs it. She wants someone over her. She is very needy in that sense. would drive a lot of men off the deep end in retaliation for them not giving her that role or allowing her to be dependent.
> 
> example? i gave her a good portion of the finances to take over once. she didnt want them. said it wasnt her job. her mother even told me not to, wasnt her job. my mother told me not to. wasnt my wifes job. i did it anyway. Figure let her take on more responsibility. So my wife just didnt do it, put near everything on autopay. And just didnt do anything after that. She refused. i had no idea. Then she didnt tell me. few months later i find out the house is in foreclosure. i had to go bail it out and pay a attorney. i asked her why she never paid it. she said "it isnt my responsibility that is yours."
> we had plenty of money in the accounts. she just never did it. she let it go under just to spite me for putting her in that position. she wants no part of it. if i tell her to do individual things, directly, for finances she goes and does them. submissive. i hand over too much to her, give her more independence and a dominant role she rebels. i also wasnt giving her as much attention in the same period. she made me pay for it. But she forecloses the house. i dont flip out i just get it back out. Then i tell her to go stand in the corner she is a "bad girl". She stands in the corner for a few minutes. i let her out. its over .
> Cost me ten k but whatever. lesson learned. that is us. she is a submissive.
> Another guy would freak she foreclosed the house, another woman would freak over their husband telling them to stand in the corner. we just, meet somewhere. i dont know how. we just do. She is a submissive. But wil push from the bottom if you dont let her have her role. And if she doesnt get attention there is hell to pay. I can tell her to do about anything and she will do it though. Long as she sees it is on the submissive side. She has her view of her position and she stands by it, it is very distinct in her mind. I push her out of that role she goes on a rampage.


she sounds abit of a selective submissive, asked (or told) to do something she doesn't want to do she just just didn't do it.

stand in the corner :rofl: your supernanny


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## mandy123

Trenton said:


> surrendered:
> 1. Cease resistance to an enemy or opponent and submit to their authority.
> 2. Give up or hand over (a person, right, or possession), typically on compulsion or demand.
> 
> I don't consider my husband an enemy or opponent. I also am not one to give up or hand over things on compulsion or demand(certainly not a right or a person!)
> 
> This is really an issue of control and the person who is in need of it most likely has an issue with one of the following: self worth, narcissism and/or security.
> 
> The person who surrenders must feel they are not capable and/or deserving and also has an issue with security.
> 
> Can one or both be happy in a relationship that is very childlike? Maybe? I think it would meet their needs and provide security and a shelter from the issues that allowed them to feel they must dominate/surrender.
> 
> Is it a healthy place to be? Ah, healthy is so relative so I can't say. The only big issue I would see is that since both partners have issues that make them vulnerable to such a dynamic in a relationship, they are most likely passing the issues the dynamic in the relationship covers up onto their children without truly understanding it.
> 
> It's one thing to role-play in the bedroom but quite another to take on one clear role that overflows to all parts of your life and defines you so rigidly.


trenton:lol: if you are going to look up on a surrendered wife you really should look it up on wiki, or surrendered wife laura doyle, i have not read this what you have just stated, maybe you should google it that way i said.

i also do not class my husband as an opponent or enemy???

i have said before to many on here i wouldent say my husband is controlling at all, and it was my choice to surrender.

there is really nothing childlike in it at all we are really both mature people, the woman choose to surrender for a better life for some this would work, but for others this could not for me and my husband it does, i really do not feel that my husband controls me, can someone control you if you're choosing to do things???

if my husband expresses a wish to me and i choose to do it, is that controlling someone????

if my husband asks me to make him a coffee, and i want to do it is that controlling???

i am just saying if it is something you are happy doing then that is not making someone do something against there will.xx


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## TiggyBlue

Trenton said:


> surrendered:
> 1. Cease resistance to an enemy or opponent and submit to their authority.
> 2. Give up or hand over (a person, right, or possession), typically on compulsion or demand.
> 
> I don't consider my husband an enemy or opponent. I also am not one to give up or hand over things on compulsion or demand(certainly not a right or a person!)
> 
> This is really an issue of control and the person who is in need of it most likely has an issue with one of the following: self worth, narcissism and/or security.
> 
> The person who surrenders must feel they are not capable and/or deserving and also has an issue with security.
> 
> Can one or both be happy in a relationship that is very childlike? Maybe? I think it would meet their needs and provide security and a shelter from the issues that allowed them to feel they must dominate/surrender.
> 
> Is it a healthy place to be? Ah, healthy is so relative so I can't say. The only big issue I would see is that since both partners have issues that make them vulnerable to such a dynamic in a relationship, they are most likely passing the issues the dynamic in the relationship covers up onto their children without truly understanding it.
> 
> It's one thing to role-play in the bedroom but quite another to take on one clear role that overflows to all parts of your life and defines you so rigidly.


yh I think it's the word 'surrendered' I wouldn't be comfortable with, because of it's definition.


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## bribrius

abitlost said:


> she sounds abit of a selective submissive, asked (or told) to do something she doesn't want to do she just just didn't do it.
> 
> stand in the corner :rofl: your supernanny


thanks. lol. i think.

a lot of it is in the dynamics. keep in mind who she is dealing with (me).
For instance when we were younger she slapped me across the face a couple times. i didnt say a word i just looked at her. Then she flipped out even more and goes "no matter what i do i just cant get through to you."
im not exactly, big on reactions.

this is dom testing. somewhat. she did it for years. i never understood it then, but im starting to.
she does something like that, and she gains some things.
1. she re-establishes her boundary as a sub and it is reaffirmed through her discipline.
2. she gains attention, kind of like a child being bad for attention. she "gets through" to me if she doesnt feel she is getting enough attention.
3. she realizes i didnt leave her, or toss her out. she gains more trust and security.
4. she finds out her limits. just like a child testing. she is.
5. she reaffirms her identity as a sub, through me fulfilling the dom role. Because i didnt lose control, i handled it. it reaffirms my "worthiness" in her mind to lead her.

she is basically, testing the relationship, reaffirming her position, and testing me. Alot of the things she has done, is the result of wanting attention and testing me to see if im capable.
Because when she has done these things, i handled it like i do, she keeps gaining alot more from number three. Trust. The more trust and security she gains, the more she becomes submissive. we basically are in a total power transfer for years. some people play "trust" games. That is really just what this is but on a more elaborate scale. With her checking me to make sure im "worthy" of the submission and if she can feel safe to let go more.
There is sub testing, and then dom testing. her testing is if she goes and stands in the corner. My testing is in how i handle her and the safety net and security she is provided to delve deeper into sub land. And this is what her ultimate goal is. To totally let go. It is more a question of if i let her totally let go. Or if i am capable of letting her and she can trust me enough to totally let go.
Dont take this as fact though, just what i have been trying to wrap my own head around and understand. i still dont understand it all. We have complicated dynamics. Just seems a good portion of the years ive been with her is about me passing tests i didnt even know i was taking.


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## that_girl

You'd stand in a corner if your husband told you to 

Yea...:rofl: I dare H to tell me to stand in the corner. I may like traditional roles in our home, but this isn't "I Love Lucy" where I have to explain myself or get in trouble.


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## Trenton

mandy123 said:


> trenton:lol: if you are going to look up on a surrendered wife you really should look it up on wiki, or surrendered wife laura doyle, i have not read this what you have just stated, maybe you should google it that way i said.
> 
> i also do not class my husband as an opponent or enemy???
> 
> i have said before to many on here i wouldent say my husband is controlling at all, and it was my choice to surrender.
> 
> there is really nothing childlike in it at all we are really both mature people, the woman choose to surrender for a better life for some this would work, but for others this could not for me and my husband it does, i really do not feel that my husband controls me, can someone control you if you're choosing to do things???
> 
> if my husband expresses a wish to me and i choose to do it, is that controlling someone????
> 
> if my husband asks me to make him a coffee, and i want to do it is that controlling???
> 
> i am just saying if it is something you are happy doing then that is not making someone do something against there will.xx


I was just defining the word as it is defined. I'm not sure that by writing a book you can re-define a word. Perhaps you didn't realize what surrendered meant prior to reading the book or investigating this movement?

Just because you choose to be controlled, does not mean you are not being controlled. Just because you don't mind your husband taking all the control in the relationship, does not mean he's not taking all the control in the relationship.

The roles are child like even if there is a difference in that the woman, in this case, is choosing the role by choice. In a child, parent relationship there is obviously no choice except to obey or suffer the consequences. That's the only reason I struggle with completely admonishing it, but I do question its healthiness as I already stated. I'm just not sure on it.

You, for some reason, are choosing to be in a relationship where you are placed in a child like position. There is a reason why two adults would both choose to have one take on a parent like role and one take on a child like role. 

It's similar to the Nice Guy/Controlling wife situation but in reverse and with one big difference in that you are happy with the role you have.


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## bribrius

that_girl said:


> You'd stand in a corner if your husband told you to
> 
> Yea...:rofl: I dare H to tell me to stand in the corner. I may like traditional roles in our home, but this isn't "I Love Lucy" where I have to explain myself or get in trouble.


you aren't a sub and dont think like one. Dont let it fool you. A sub is not a weak person by any means. It is a strong mindset.
It is much harder to submit and stand in the corner than not. And that is just a light example, being a submissive goes far beyond a little corner time. In fact most people couldnt think like a sub because they dont have the mental fortitude. i couldnt even do it. But if i had to compare it to something i would say my time in the military in basic training would be close. im not sure how my wife does it she is very strong mentally. im starting to understand why she naturally does it and wants it. I still quite havent figured out HOW she does it.
She is near a total submissive. you probably wouldnt do many of the things she would do. But that is where her ego comes from. Her submissive role. she prides herself and finds her indentity in it. Where as your ego is affronted by going to the corner. It doesnt phase her. The entire thing "well im not standing in the corner that is insulting" isnt even there for her. She is way beyond that her ego can take the corner and then some. her mind is beyond that. The corner is just sexual foreplay or keeping her sub identity. It is a strong mindset. complete opposite as what one would think. It is harder to LET GO than have control. The sub is mentally stronger than the dom, in most all cases.


----------



## Trenton

bribrius said:


> thanks. lol. i think.
> 
> a lot of it is in the dynamics. keep in mind who she is dealing with (me).
> For instance when we were younger she slapped me across the face a couple times. i didnt say a word i just looked at her. Then she flipped out even more and goes "no matter what i do i just cant get through to you."
> im not exactly, big on reactions.
> 
> this is dom testing. somewhat. she did it for years. i never understood it then, but im starting to.
> she does something like that, and she gains some things.
> 1. she re-establishes her boundary as a sub and it is reaffirmed through her discipline.
> 2. she gains attention, kind of like a child being bad for attention. she "gets through" to me if she doesnt feel she is getting enough attention.
> 3. she realizes i didnt leave her, or toss her out. she gains more trust and security.
> 4. she finds out her limits. just like a child testing. she is.
> 5. she reaffirms her identity as a sub, through me fulfilling the dom role. Because i didnt lose control, i handled it. it reaffirms my "worthiness" in her mind to lead her.
> 
> she is basically, testing the relationship, reaffirming her position, and testing me. Alot of the things she has done, is the result of wanting attention and testing me to see if im capable.
> Because when she has done these things, i handled it like i do, she keeps gaining alot more from number three. Trust. The more trust and security she gains, the more she becomes submissive. we basically are in a total power transfer for years. some people play "trust" games. That is really just what this is but on a more elaborate scale. With her checking me to make sure im "worthy" of the submission and if she can feel safe to let go more.
> There is sub testing, and then dom testing. her testing is if she goes and stands in the corner. My testing is in how i handle her and the safety net and security she is provided to delve deeper into sub land. And this is what her ultimate goal is. To totally let go. It is more a question of if i let her totally let go. Or if i am capable of letting her and she can trust me enough to totally let go.
> Dont take this as fact though, just what i have been trying to wrap my own head around and understand. i still dont understand it all. We have complicated dynamics. Just seems a good portion of the years ive been with her is about me passing tests i didnt even know i was taking.


The roles seem to work for you and your wife because you lack emotion and response and she must need to be with someone who is like this. I find your posts disturbing on so many levels. I don't even know you and I would want to slap you with a dead fish.


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## bribrius

Trenton said:


> I was just defining the word as it is defined. I'm not sure that by writing a book you can re-define a word. Perhaps you didn't realize what surrendered meant prior to reading the book or investigating this movement?
> 
> Just because you choose to be controlled, does not mean you are not being controlled. Just because you don't mind your husband taking all the control in the relationship, does not mean he's not taking all the control in the relationship.
> 
> The roles are child like even if there is a difference in that the woman, in this case, is choosing the role by choice. In a child, parent relationship there is obviously no choice except to obey or suffer the consequences. That's the only reason I struggle with completely admonishing it, but I do question its healthiness as I already stated. I'm just not sure on it.
> 
> You, for some reason, are choosing to be in a relationship where you are placed in a child like position. There is a reason why two adults would both choose to have one take on a parent like role and one take on a child like role.
> 
> It's similar to the Nice Guy/Controlling wife situation but in reverse and with one big difference in that you are happy with the role you have.


There are two main problems with this type of relationship that i can see.
1. the ability for abuse to take place if the person isnt really a sub, and are forced into a role. The vulnerability in the sub position is extreme, and can be taken advantage of. She doesnt appear to be in this situation.

2. the relationship ending. If you see the type of issues people have when the relationship ends, this type is compounded and much more intense. Often, because the spouses are much CLOSER. The relationship allows for a much more trusting, intimate and bonding setting. But if it ends, the problems and emotions are compounded. The amount given in a dom sub relationship is usually beyond the norm. From a subs perspective, the trust could be much greater than a average relationship. which means it is broken much more intense. The sub has also given, a large portion of themselves, and even their identity to the relationship in the transfer. where as in a regular relationship a spouse may feel "lost" a sub losing one will feel VERY "lost" as much of themselves transferred. Depending on the extent of the relationship and transfer a sub could have issues with self esteem, as it was derived from that identity which is now lost, not feeling secure and controlled can play havoc on a sub. Kind of like being thrown out into a cold winter day naked from a nice warm place by the fire. And of course depending on the extent, the subs ability to live every day life. As many taken on a sub role relinquish the ability to live every day life independently, they dont have the means to reestablish that independence. 

i think the main issues, in this case, would be if it doesnt work out for her. But this is part of the relationship, and why they can go so deep. Because the amount of trust a sub puts into it, in the relinquishing of control. without that the relationship dynamics would never lead to such intamacy, trust, or the sexuality that comes from it.

just my thinking...


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## pidge70

Trenton said:


> The roles seem to work for you and your wife because you lack emotion and response and she must need to be with someone who is like this. I find your posts disturbing on so many levels. I don't even know you and I would want to slap you with a dead fish.


It is official....I absolutely love you!

:allhail:


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## Maricha75

pidge70 said:


> It is official....I absolutely love you!
> 
> :allhail:


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## bribrius

Trenton said:


> The roles seem to work for you and your wife because you lack emotion and response and she must need to be with someone who is like this. I find your posts disturbing on so many levels. I don't even know you and I would want to slap you with a dead fish.


i dont think you totally understand it, is your problem. I do lack emotion and response, i admit that. i dont totally understand our relationship either. Also had doubts about it many times myself. i have figured out one thing, the relationship goes much deeper than most i think get. And is much more committed than most i think get. If you are looking to avoid a superficial relationship. If you want to really know if you got salt. This is the way to go. There is no doubting what someone is made of when you go through these roles.
If you notice above, the testing my wife has done with me, you can argue the health benefits of it. whether it is potentially dysfunctional. But there is no arguing the relationship has gone deeper and deeper through out. Fake relatioships dont make it through a true dom sub dynamic. The trust and commitment isnt there in fake or shallow relationships. Unless you are in a dom sub that is strictly sexual occasional light bdsm. i dont think you could pull off a dom sub on a shallow level. By its very nature, it has to go devoted and deep and have trust.
so i wouldnt trade it. had doubts before. But looking around at what else is out there. i wouldnt trade it. i hate fake ****.
plus we are both of religous backgrounds, it cements us even further and just adds to the dynamic.


----------



## Entropy3000

Trenton said:


> The roles seem to work for you and your wife because you lack emotion and response and she must need to be with someone who is like this. I find your posts disturbing on so many levels. I don't even know you and *I would want to slap you with a dead fish*.


Wow. I never heard of that kink. Sounds really awful and too smelly for me. Is this what they mean in Jersey when they say Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes? 

Surrender


----------



## Maricha75

Bribrius, I REALLY hope you are not implying that someone who is NOT in a dom/sub relationship is actually in a shallow or fake one. If that is what you are implying, then I can tell you right now...that's a load of bs. Plenty of successful, loving, DEEPLY COMMITTED marriages out there who don't throw dom/sub into the mix. They are just as loving, just as trusting, just as respectful...some even more so. So, I really hope that is not what you are saying here.


----------



## bribrius

Maricha75 said:


> Bribrius, I REALLY hope you are not implying that someone who is NOT in a dom/sub relationship is actually in a shallow or fake one. If that is what you are implying, then I can tell you right now...that's a load of bs. Plenty of successful, loving, DEEPLY COMMITTED marriages out there who don't throw dom/sub into the mix. They are just as loving, just as trusting, just as respectful...some even more so. So, I really hope that is not what you are saying here.


i am wondering that. it seems in many relationships as soon as something goes wrong one spouse is out the door. The other is they arent tested. They say the trust, they are devoted, But it isnt tested. when you live that way, it is tested constantly. so you know it is there. Saying and doing are two very different things. It is always easy to say you are. 
i think compared to a dom/sub relationship, most are shallow or superficial. Some i do see the devotion however, job changes, illness, child death, living in shelter. So i do see devotion in some. But many seem as much based on mutual stupidity than devotion. And alot are abuse situations, not choice. They arent devoted. They are abused. Big difference. That isnt trust. 
But mostly, how quick one spouse bails. What they said, and what they did, are very different things. 
And if you go through life, and you are with your spouse for decades. suppose you can say you have a very close trusting relationship. But has it still ever been tested? Do you know? did you suffer some major tribulation and survived? Those that do are few and far between in my opinion. It is more common for one spouse to wake up one day and see the other one has left them and think "but i thought we had a committed devoted relationship. i thought we loved eachother. i trusted them. i didnt even see that coming"
why ? superficial. no salt.


----------



## Maricha75

bribrius said:


> i am wondering that. it seems in many relationships as soon as something goes wrong one spouse is out the door. The other is they arent tested. They say the trust, they are devoted, But it isnt tested. when you live that way, it is tested constantly. so you know it is there. Saying and doing are two very different things. It is always easy to say you are.
> i think compared to a dom/sub relationship, most are shallow or superficial. Some i do see the devotion however, job changes, illness, child death, living in shelter. So i do see devotion in some. But many seem as much based on mutual stupidity than devotion. And alot are abuse situations, not choice. They arent devoted. They are abused. Big difference. That isnt trust.
> But mostly, how quick one spouse bails. What they said, and what they did, are very different things.
> And if you go through life, and you are with your spouse for decades. suppose you can say you have a very close trusting relationship. But has it still ever been tested? Do you know? did you suffer some major tribulation and survived? Those that do are few and far between in my opinion. It is more common for one spouse to wake up one day and see the other one has left them and think "but i thought we had a committed devoted relationship. i thought we loved eachother. i trusted them. i didnt even see that coming"
> why ? superficial. no salt.


So the answer is to... stand your wife in a corner for "being bad"? Just like I would give my kids a time out? No, if you REALLY want to test a relationship... try being separated for months when the husband is going to school to improve the family's fiances. During that time, try having to drive 2+ hours one way, just to spend weekends with your pregnant wife and your child...and then the second child after she is born. And then, try having to live with a parent while looking for housing after you have accepted a job, once you have finished that education. And then have a breakdown and be unable to work. Huge test in the end, after that, and I very nearly failed MY side of it. But then I stepped up and took over because HE CAN'T HANDLE these things now. My husband is in no way dom nor sub. Nor am I dom nor sub. We are on equal footing in everything

Hey, if having your wife submit to you in everything works for you, more power to you. But don't try to say you have a deeper bond with your wife than my husband and I have with each other because your wife submits to your every whim.


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## that_girl

I do like being spanked....but that's a different thread


----------



## pidge70

Maricha75 said:


> So the answer is to... stand your wife in a corner for "being bad"? Just like I would give my kids a time out? No, if you REALLY want to test a relationship... try being separated for months when the husband is going to school to improve the family's fiances. During that time, try having to drive 2+ hours one way, just to spend weekends with your pregnant wife and your child...and then the second child after she is born. And then, try having to live with a parent while looking for housing after you have accepted a job, once you have finished that education. And then have a breakdown and be unable to work. Huge test in the end, after that, and I very nearly failed MY side of it. But then I stepped up and took over because HE CAN'T HANDLE these things now. My husband is in no way dom nor sub. Nor am I dom nor sub. We are on equal footing in everything
> 
> Hey, if having your wife submit to you in everything works for you, more power to you. But don't try to say you have a deeper bond with your wife than my husband and I have with each other because your wife submits to your every whim.



Go stand in the corner and drink your milk or you are not going to get your weekly Diet Pepsi!


----------



## Maricha75

pidge70 said:


> Go stand in the corner and drink your milk or you are not going to get your weekly Diet Pepsi!


NO! I don't LIKE Diet Pepsi!


----------



## Maricha75

that_girl said:


> I do like being spanked....but that's a different thread


I just discovered that I do too... but yea, that's a different thread.


----------



## bribrius

Maricha75 said:


> So the answer is to... stand your wife in a corner for "being bad"? Just like I would give my kids a time out? No, if you REALLY want to test a relationship... try being separated for months when the husband is going to school to improve the family's fiances. During that time, try having to drive 2+ hours one way, just to spend weekends with your pregnant wife and your child...and then the second child after she is born. And then, try having to live with a parent while looking for housing after you have accepted a job, once you have finished that education. And then have a breakdown and be unable to work. Huge test in the end, after that, and I very nearly failed MY side of it. But then I stepped up and took over because HE CAN'T HANDLE these things now. My husband is in no way dom nor sub. Nor am I dom nor sub. We are on equal footing in everything
> 
> Hey, if having your wife submit to you in everything works for you, more power to you. But don't try to say you have a deeper bond with your wife than my husband and I have with each other because your wife submits to your every whim.


so you think you got salt because your husband went to school and had to commute and you had to move in with your parents? Breakdowns are allowed, but you still have to keep it together and control. This is where having little emotion helps. You maintain control. it is hard for something to phase you. And your wife looks at you amazed that you still kept your **** together and submits to you knowing no matter what, it will be okay, because you will make it okay.
just joking. But in all seriousness, sounds like you are the dom. The dom is the one that keeps control and holds it together. The dom is the one the sub gets lost in and puts all the trust and faith in. sounds like you would make a pretty good dom if you got a little more salt. 
The fact you said you almost didnt keep up your end of it however. i dont know about that. sounds like weakness. Doms cant have weakness. you have to maintain. you have to look out for your sub. your sub trusts you. They put complete trust in you. You cant screw up your sub. Protect your sub, look out for you sub. They cant do it themselves. They have already let go. No stress. But DONT FAIL YOUR SUB. 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## bribrius

that_girl said:


> I do like being spanked....but that's a different thread


Nothing wrong with a spanking..........


----------



## pidge70

bribrius said:


> so you think you got salt because your husband went to school and had to commute and you had to move in with your parents? Breakdowns are allowed, but you still have to keep it together and control. This is where having little emotion helps. You maintain control. it is hard for something to phase you. And your wife looks at you amazed that you still kept your **** together and submits to you knowing no matter what, it will be okay, because you will make it okay.
> just joking. But in all seriousness, sounds like you are the dom. The dom is the one that keeps control and holds it together. The dom is the one the sub gets lost in and puts all the trust and faith in. sounds like you would make a pretty good dom if you got a little more salt.
> The fact you said you almost didnt keep up your end of it however. i dont know about that. sounds like weakness. Doms cant have weakness. you have to maintain. you have to look out for your sub. your sub trusts you. They put complete trust in you. You cant screw up your sub. Protect your sub, look out for you sub. They cant do it themselves. They have already let go. No stress. But DONT FAIL YOUR SUB.
> 
> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:



I think you are doing a little projecting. Maricha NEVER said anything about her being a dom or her H being a sub. That is YOUR lifestyle, not hers. That's great that your W lives to serve you and you get off on it. Bully for you. Some of us prefer equality. Now much like most people on here, your amusement has worn off for me.....off to the ignore list you go. Buh bye.


----------



## Maricha75

bribrius said:


> so you think you got salt because your husband went to school and had to commute and you had to move in with your parents? Breakdowns are allowed, but you still have to keep it together and control. This is where having little emotion helps. You maintain control. it is hard for something to phase you. And your wife looks at you amazed that you still kept your **** together and submits to you knowing no matter what, it will be okay, because you will make it okay.
> just joking. But in all seriousness, sounds like you are the dom. The dom is the one that keeps control and holds it together. The dom is the one the sub gets lost in and puts all the trust and faith in. sounds like you would make a pretty good dom if you got a little more salt.
> The fact you said you almost didnt keep up your end of it however. i dont know about that. sounds like weakness. Doms cant have weakness. you have to maintain. you have to look out for your sub. your sub trusts you. They put complete trust in you. You cant screw up your sub. Protect your sub, look out for you sub. They cant do it themselves. They have already let go. No stress. But DONT FAIL YOUR SUB.
> 
> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:



Not even. I am not dom. I am not sub. My husband and I are EQUAL. We still, and always have, made decisions together. Even when he had his breakdown, we agreed on the big things together. I don't, and never have, deferred to him, nor has he ever deferred to me. If his idea is better, we agree to use it. If mine is better, mine is used. That is an equal partnership. 

I don't treat my husband like a child because he is not MY child. If he wants a mommy, he can go to his OWN mother. Likewise, he is not my dad, and he doesn't TREAT me like I am his daughter. Making me stand in a corner is laughable. I'd tell him where he can shove his corner if he ever tried it. 

Like I said, no one in my marriage is dominant. We are equal. Equal say on everything. We share all responsibilities, even now. A true test of a relationship is being able to work together, as equals.


----------



## bribrius

Maricha75 said:


> Not even. I am not dom. I am not sub. My husband and I are EQUAL. We still, and always have, made decisions together. Even when he had his breakdown, we agreed on the big things together. I don't, and never have, deferred to him, nor has he ever deferred to me. If his idea is better, we agree to use it. If mine is better, mine is used. That is an equal partnership.
> 
> I don't treat my husband like a child because he is not MY child. If he wants a mommy, he can go to his OWN mother. Likewise, he is not my dad, and he doesn't TREAT me like I am his daughter. Making me stand in a corner is laughable. I'd tell him where he can shove his corner if he ever tried it.
> 
> Like I said, no one in my marriage is dominant. We are equal. Equal say on everything. We share all responsibilities, even now. *A true test of a relationship is being able to work together, as equals*.


for you perhaps. The equal partnership sounds like a modern concept to me littered with divorce rates and self centeredness.
I actually think im on a totally different page than you. Probably in a totally different book, on a totally different shelf, in a totally different store.

im not allowed a breakdown. i have too many people that depend on me. children. Parents. a sister somewhat. Including a sub wife that hands her life over to me too. Losing control isnt allowed. To much at risk. Thankfully i dont have a business running right now or i would have employees to keep up with too.
And i have yet to ask my wife to buy a property or vehicle first. i just did it. Only thing i wanted a opinion on was the family homestead, since that is basically her nest and the childrens.
i understand you cant relate. Entire different worlds.
My life, case you havent noticed, involves a near arranged marriage, it has been run like a business itself, and i have a lot of people that count on me. I was raised for this though.
i know you dont get it. But it is what it is. This is who i am, and what i do. The equality thing really dont mean jack **** to me.


----------



## that_girl

Just a big pissing match.

Enjoy your own marriage and appreciate what you got.


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## pidge70

that_girl said:


> Just a big pissing match.
> 
> Enjoy your own marriage and appreciate what you got.


Just make sure to not piss in the corner......:rofl:


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## bribrius

that_girl said:


> Just a big pissing match.
> 
> *Enjoy your own marriage and appreciate what you got*.


Exactly.
i dont think so on the pissing match. just totally different lifestyles and beliefs. Really no harm in any of it. you do what you want, what you know, what works.
Sometimes people have strong feelings. But its all fun. i actually like Maricha75
Not only that im so far right, i wouldnt argue with a woman. if i thought it was a argument and serious i would have just left the thread. Not to mention, well its just the internet. come on...:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## regretful wife

pidge70 said:


> Just make sure to not piss in the corner......:rofl:


:lol::lol::lol:

Well, I won't lie. 
Hubby's and my marriage is rather classical. He works and handles most of the traditionally considered manly duties. I also work part time, but I mostly take care of him, and the house duties

But I find that if you treat your man like a King, you'll find yourself living like a Queen. 

A little example:
Hubby needed a shave real badly this Saturday. Now, shaving can be boring, or you can make it exciting!

So I woke him up, and let him recline in his lazy boy, poured him an ice cold mug of microbrew cream soda, then covered his face in some hot towels, then rubbed on some preshave oil, then lathered him up, gave him a smooth shave, then rubbed in some after shave, put on some lotion, and powdered him up to finish it all. 
And he was smiling for the rest of the day! He felt like a King by me just doing that! 

So how did he repay me? 
Took me to a 5-Star Restaurant, took me to a play (I love theater!) then we went clubbing (and I love this too!)
I loved that night. We created so many happy memories.

You give and take. 
And sometimes just the little things really can mean a lot to your spouse.


----------



## Starstarfish

See, and I promised I would leave this thread. 

But, now I feel compelled to comment that - just because people aren't living some real life version of "The Secretary" where their entire day to day interaction is some thinly veiled sexual foreplay about dom/sub, I think saying that relationship is obviously "not tested" and is "fake" is a big fallacy. So is the whole, "there is no weakness in a dom" line of thinking. 

If you are happy, why do you need to insult everyone else's relationship, inferring they are fake and "not grounded" and whatever other synonyms for "lame" you want to come up with? Again, that always makes me assume the poster needs to convince themselves that they are the best for some reason. 

Also, I think the major contributor to the divorce rate these days, isn't the lack of sub/dom (I'm sure for a long stretch of time, the traditional religious communities would not have advocated that kind of highly sexualized lifestyle), but people not realizing that a long-term relationship is work, and - not, I think being really honest about their needs before beginning the relationship.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

i love that movie  but i couldn't ever live that way 24/7.

live and let live people.

To say a relationship without the dom/sub situation is lacking "salt" is naive and more than a little ridiculous.


----------



## mandy123

that_girl said:


> You'd stand in a corner if your husband told you to
> 
> Yea...:rofl: I dare H to tell me to stand in the corner. I may like traditional roles in our home, but this isn't "I Love Lucy" where I have to explain myself or get in trouble.


hi :lol: you see i wouldent know because my husband has never asked me to stand in a corner, to be honest i do not think he would, as this really is not his style, he is not really like that so unless he says it, i probaly will never know.


----------



## mandy123

abitlost said:


> yh I think it's the word 'surrendered' I wouldn't be comfortable with, because of it's definition.


i understand what you mean:lol: but it is only a name, they have to call it something and i know what some people would call itxx


----------



## mandy123

Trenton said:


> I was just defining the word as it is defined. I'm not sure that by writing a book you can re-define a word. Perhaps you didn't realize what surrendered meant prior to reading the book or investigating this movement?
> 
> Just because you choose to be controlled, does not mean you are not being controlled. Just because you don't mind your husband taking all the control in the relationship, does not mean he's not taking all the control in the relationship.
> 
> The roles are child like even if there is a difference in that the woman, in this case, is choosing the role by choice. In a child, parent relationship there is obviously no choice except to obey or suffer the consequences. That's the only reason I struggle with completely admonishing it, but I do question its healthiness as I already stated. I'm just not sure on it.
> 
> You, for some reason, are choosing to be in a relationship where you are placed in a child like position. There is a reason why two adults would both choose to have one take on a parent like role and one take on a child like role.
> 
> It's similar to the Nice Guy/Controlling wife situation but in reverse and with one big difference in that you are happy with the role you have.


you are in your right to see it as i childlike, but i see it as me being more of a woman, for being able to make this decision to become surrendered i have 5 children, i look after them very well.

i understand you do not think it is healthy, but i think that it is very healthy, i still do not see it as being controlled but that is my opinion, there are many surrendered wives now i heard on an american show over one hundred thousand, so it does and is working for some.xx


----------



## ScarletBegonias

mandy123 said:


> you are in your right to see it as i childlike, but i see it as me being more of a woman, for being able to make this decision to become surrendered


so...does this mean women who choose to live another way are less of a woman in your opinion?


----------



## mandy123

bribrius said:


> you aren't a sub and dont think like one. Dont let it fool you. A sub is not a weak person by any means. It is a strong mindset.
> It is much harder to submit and stand in the corner than not. And that is just a light example, being a submissive goes far beyond a little corner time. In fact most people couldnt think like a sub because they dont have the mental fortitude. i couldnt even do it. But if i had to compare it to something i would say my time in the military in basic training would be close. im not sure how my wife does it she is very strong mentally. im starting to understand why she naturally does it and wants it. I still quite havent figured out HOW she does it.
> She is near a total submissive. you probably wouldnt do many of the things she would do. But that is where her ego comes from. Her submissive role. she prides herself and finds her indentity in it. Where as your ego is affronted by going to the corner. It doesnt phase her. The entire thing "well im not standing in the corner that is insulting" isnt even there for her. She is way beyond that her ego can take the corner and then some. her mind is beyond that. The corner is just sexual foreplay or keeping her sub identity. It is a strong mindset. complete opposite as what one would think. It is harder to LET GO than have control. The sub is mentally stronger than the dom, in most all cases.


i really agree with what you are saying, i find it really hard to explain alot of things, it does not come out the way i want it to:lol: like you said and me there are many different ways of being a sub, surrendered housewife, we all do thing our own ways, some are more submissive, and dominant than others.xx


----------



## momtwo4

bribrius said:


> Exactly.
> Not only that im so far right, i wouldnt argue with a woman. if i thought it was a argument and serious i would have just left the thread. Not to mention, well its just the internet. come on...:rofl::rofl::rofl:


You wouldn't argue with a woman? Seems like you have already been engaged in plenty of that in this thread alone.


----------



## mandy123

Trenton said:


> The roles seem to work for you and your wife because you lack emotion and response and she must need to be with someone who is like this. I find your posts disturbing on so many levels. I don't even know you and I would want to slap you with a dead fish.


:rofl: a dead fish..... there relationship is a lot different than ours, my husband does have emotion, that is what i meant when i said no two relationships are the same, some are a lot strickter than others, like i said my husband has never told me to go stand in a cornerxxx


----------



## momtwo4

I don't understand why it is necessary for one person in a marriage to live in "submission" to the other. What about equality and respecting each other as equals? Why does one person have to be "dominant?" Fortunately, my husband has enough security in himself as a man to live as an equal with his wife. He is not "emasculated" if I disagree with him. And fortunately, I am secure enough as a woman, wife, and mother to speak my mind if I need to. This does not mean that I disrespect my husband or constantly nag him. However, if he is about to do something that I do not believe is wise or good for our family, you bet I will speak my mind. If he is driving in the wrong direction, I will point it out to him. He would do the same for me. We are to ADULTS in a married partnership. He is not my boss--he's my husband.


----------



## momtwo4

mandy123 said:


> :rofl: a dead fish..... there relationship is a lot different than ours, my husband does have emotion, that is what i meant when i said no two relationships are the same, some are a lot strickter than others, like i said my husband has never told me to go stand in a cornerxxx


But you WOULD stand in a corner if he told you to???


----------



## mandy123

Maricha75 said:


> Not even. I am not dom. I am not sub. My husband and I are EQUAL. We still, and always have, made decisions together. Even when he had his breakdown, we agreed on the big things together. I don't, and never have, deferred to him, nor has he ever deferred to me. If his idea is better, we agree to use it. If mine is better, mine is used. That is an equal partnership.
> 
> I don't treat my husband like a child because he is not MY child. If he wants a mommy, he can go to his OWN mother. Likewise, he is not my dad, and he doesn't TREAT me like I am his daughter. Making me stand in a corner is laughable. I'd tell him where he can shove his corner if he ever tried it.
> 
> Like I said, no one in my marriage is dominant. We are equal. Equal say on everything. We share all responsibilities, even now. A true test of a relationship is being able to work together, as equals.


i think that bribrius, may have upset you a little, i do not think that he meant to but i can totally see how you think he did, i do not think anybody has the right, to mock anybody's relationship really i for one find it hurtful, we all are her to discuss things and i think it will get a little hot sometimes especially as some of us have big personality's.

i still say we still work together even if i am a surrendered housewife.xx


----------



## mandy123

regretful wife said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Well, I won't lie.
> Hubby's and my marriage is rather classical. He works and handles most of the traditionally considered manly duties. I also work part time, but I mostly take care of him, and the house duties
> 
> But I find that if you treat your man like a King, you'll find yourself living like a Queen.
> 
> A little example:
> Hubby needed a shave real badly this Saturday. Now, shaving can be boring, or you can make it exciting!
> 
> So I woke him up, and let him recline in his lazy boy, poured him an ice cold mug of microbrew cream soda, then covered his face in some hot towels, then rubbed on some preshave oil, then lathered him up, gave him a smooth shave, then rubbed in some after shave, put on some lotion, and powdered him up to finish it all.
> And he was smiling for the rest of the day! He felt like a King by me just doing that!
> 
> So how did he repay me?
> Took me to a 5-Star Restaurant, took me to a play (I love theater!) then we went clubbing (and I love this too!)
> I loved that night. We created so many happy memories.
> 
> You give and take.
> And sometimes just the little things really can mean a lot to your spouse.


I LOVE THIS,

i know you're not a surrendered wife but i love what you just posted.

you see me keeping my husband keeps me happy, and like you say it is really rewarding, since i have surrendered there has been so much more love in our relationship, i cant totally explain, what i mean but by me being understanding, loving, attentive. and by me listening to my husband by not nagging listening being there, the rewards have been great our sex life has never been better, the children are happier, there is just calm in the air.

my husband does feel like the king, and i certainly feel like a queen, i do not feel like a child, a robot, slave, i feel great by me changing the person i was my husband as changed the way he was.xxxx


----------



## mandy123

Starstarfish said:


> See, and I promised I would leave this thread.
> 
> But, now I feel compelled to comment that - just because people aren't living some real life version of "The Secretary" where their entire day to day interaction is some thinly veiled sexual foreplay about dom/sub, I think saying that relationship is obviously "not tested" and is "fake" is a big fallacy. So is the whole, "there is no weakness in a dom" line of thinking.
> 
> If you are happy, why do you need to insult everyone else's relationship, inferring they are fake and "not grounded" and whatever other synonyms for "lame" you want to come up with? Again, that always makes me assume the poster needs to convince themselves that they are the best for some reason.
> 
> Also, I think the major contributor to the divorce rate these days, isn't the lack of sub/dom (I'm sure for a long stretch of time, the traditional religious communities would not have advocated that kind of highly sexualized lifestyle), but people not realizing that a long-term relationship is work, and - not, I think being really honest about their needs before beginning the relationship.


I really hope you do not mean me i would never INSULT anyone for the way they live there lives,and how they handle there relationship, and if i have i would like to say sorry to anyone if they think i have, sometimes i just have problems explaining things, like i said different things work for different people, i am not superior to anyone, i know that i am far from it.

sorry if i came across like i amxx


----------



## mandy123

ScarletBegonias said:


> so...does this mean women who choose to live another way are less of a woman in your opinion?


NOWAY of course not i really think you need to put your claws back in, please stop putting words in my mouth, i have never said that, there is so many different ways of living mine is just one.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

mandy123 said:


> NOWAY of course not i really think you need to put your claws back in, please stop putting words in my mouth, i have never said that, there is so many different ways of living mine is just one.


my claws? what claws Mandy? I was asking a question. Perhaps you shouldn't be so sensitive to being questioned about something you've said.

Originally Posted by mandy123 View Post
you are in your right to see it as i childlike, but i see it as me being more of a woman, for being able to make this decision to become surrendered

you DID say it. "i see it as me being more of a woman"

I was ASKING for clarification. having "claws" out would look like this: "OMFG where do you get off saying you're better than other women just bc they aren't surrendered" see the difference? I wasn't sure what you meant by the statement so I ASKED about it. 

geez


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## mandy123

momtwo4 said:


> I don't understand why it is necessary for one person in a marriage to live in "submission" to the other. What about equality and respecting each other as equals? Why does one person have to be "dominant?" Fortunately, my husband has enough security in himself as a man to live as an equal with his wife. He is not "emasculated" if I disagree with him. And fortunately, I am secure enough as a woman, wife, and mother to speak my mind if I need to. This does not mean that I disrespect my husband or constantly nag him. However, if he is about to do something that I do not believe is wise or good for our family, you bet I will speak my mind. If he is driving in the wrong direction, I will point it out to him. He would do the same for me. We are to ADULTS in a married partnership. He is not my boss--he's my husband.


and good for you that is your opinion, but its not up to you to put people down for the way they live either.

i feel my husband does have a lot of respect for me he never puts me down at all.

he is in no way insecure and sorry but nor am i, but i have to be honest and say i have never heard my husband say anything that is wrong for our family, i respect his choices, i feel he knows what he is talking about.

if my husband was driving in the wrong direction i would say i think its that way, if he chooses to go that way then fine if he goes his way and its wrong its down to him i wouldent say i told you so.

i feel we do have a partnership and a very good one.xx


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## Maricha75

mandy123 said:


> i think that bribrius, may have upset you a little, i do not think that he meant to but i can totally see how you think he did, i do not think anybody has the right, to mock anybody's relationship really i for one find it hurtful, we all are her to discuss things and i think it will get a little hot sometimes especially as some of us have big personality's.
> 
> i still say we still work together even if i am a surrendered housewife.xx


Bribrius has a habit of pushing buttons, and not just mine. It's ok tho. He is now on ignore. The one thing that set me off (this time) was the implication that those of us who are not in dom/sub relationships are somehow not in deep, trusting, loving relationships... and that couldn't be further from the truth.

As for the housewife thing... I, too, am a HOMEMAKER, aka SAHM. I have been all along. I also receive disability income and am the payee for my kids on my disability. We have always worked together, whether he had more money coming in or I did. Joint, mutual decisions.


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## pidge70

ScarletBegonias said:


> my claws? what claws Mandy? I was asking a question. Perhaps you shouldn't be so sensitive to being questioned about something you've said.
> 
> Originally Posted by mandy123 View Post
> you are in your right to see it as i childlike, but i see it as me being more of a woman, for being able to make this decision to become surrendered
> 
> you DID say it. "i see it as me being more of a woman"
> 
> I was ASKING for clarification. having "claws" out would look like this: "OMFG where do you get off saying you're better than other women just bc they aren't surrendered" see the difference? I wasn't sure what you meant by the statement so I ASKED about it.
> 
> geez


:rofl:

I kinda like you....here are some little xxxx's for you....lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias

pidge70 said:


> :rofl:
> 
> I kinda like you....here are some little xxxx's for you....lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


xxxx for you too i think you're the bees knees!


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## Starstarfish

Sorry for not clarifying, Mandy, and no, I was talking about Bribrius, and how apparently, the rest of us don't have "salt."


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## HopelesslyJaded

mandy123 said:


> if my husband was driving in the wrong direction i would say i think its that way, if he chooses to go that way then fine if he goes his way and its wrong its down to him* i wouldent say i told you so.
> *
> i feel we do have a partnership and a very good one.xx


I wouldn't have to either. The look on my face would say it all.  Then after he did it several times I would just get in the driver's seat next time.


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## mandy123

ScarletBegonias said:


> my claws? what claws Mandy? I was asking a question. Perhaps you shouldn't be so sensitive to being questioned about something you've said.
> 
> Originally Posted by mandy123 View Post
> you are in your right to see it as i childlike, but i see it as me being more of a woman, for being able to make this decision to become surrendered
> 
> you DID say it. "i see it as me being more of a woman"
> 
> I was ASKING for clarification. having "claws" out would look like this: "OMFG where do you get off saying you're better than other women just bc they aren't surrendered" see the difference? I wasn't sure what you meant by the statement so I ASKED about it.
> 
> geez


ok then wires crossed no i do not feel i am more of a woman than any other, yes i class myself as a woman and not a child, i am not sensitive really just defending the rights to have my opinion like you have your's if i was wrong then i am sorry.:scratchhead:


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## mandy123

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I wouldn't have to either. The look on my face would say it all.  Then after he did it several times I would just get in the driver's seat next time.


:lol: i cant drive so that counts me outxx


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## TiggyBlue

ScarletBegonias said:


> my claws? what claws Mandy? I was asking a question. Perhaps you shouldn't be so sensitive to being questioned about something you've said.
> 
> Originally Posted by mandy123 View Post
> you are in your right to see it as i childlike, but i see it as me being more of a woman, for being able to make this decision to become surrendered
> 
> you DID say it. "i see it as me being more of a woman"
> 
> I was ASKING for clarification. having "claws" out would look like this: "OMFG where do you get off saying you're better than other women just bc they aren't surrendered" see the difference? I wasn't sure what you meant by the statement so I ASKED about it.
> 
> geez


she may have ment she see's herself more of a woman than a child

oops did'nt read the last comment lol wouldn't have posted this one


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## mandy123

momtwo4 said:


> But you WOULD stand in a corner if he told you to???[/QUO
> 
> yes i would, and the reason i say this is because this is the path i chose to go, but he wouldent do that to me, he would find this degrading, he would not do anything to belittle me he hasent yet anywayxx


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## mandy123

Starstarfish said:


> Sorry for not clarifying, Mandy, and no, I was talking about Bribrius, and how apparently, the rest of us don't have "salt."


sorry getcha gets a bit confusing who is talking to who sometimes i find it hard to keep upxx:rofl:


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## Maricha75

mandy123 said:


> if my husband was driving in the wrong direction i would say i think its that way, if he chooses to go that way then fine if he goes his way and its wrong its down to him i wouldent say i told you so.


I would say ok to this if you THINK he is going in the wrong direction. If you KNOW he has made a wrong turn, then point it out. Why would you let him continue, miles in the wrong direction, knowing he went the wrong way, and not speak up about it? That makes no sense, especially if there is a time constraint. I agree, no "I told you so"... but let him go whichever way he wants...just to not argue? :scratchhead:


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## mandy123

abitlost said:


> she may have ment she see's herself more of a woman than a child
> 
> oops did'nt read the last comment lol wouldn't have posted this one


i did mean more of a woman than a child, there is nothing childlike about mexx


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## Maricha75

mandy123 said:


> :lol:* i cant drive* so that counts me outxx


Why? Did you just never want to learn how to drive? I didn't want to learn, but had no choice when I was 16. I had a job after school and mom and dad had other commitments as well. Anyway, so why can't you drive?


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## momtwo4

mandy123 said:


> and good for you that is your opinion, but its not up to you to put people down for the way they live either.
> 
> i feel my husband does have a lot of respect for me he never puts me down at all..xx


I didn't mean to put you down, and upon re-reading my post I can see how you would feel that way. Let me put it this way, for OUR relationship it would be a sign of insecurity on BOTH of our parts if we adopted dominant/submissive roles.

However, I can see that you do not feel that way for your relationship. And I apologize for implying that you are an insecure wife because you and your husband choose to live this way.


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## momtwo4

mandy123 said:


> momtwo4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you WOULD stand in a corner if he told you to???[/QUO
> 
> yes i would, and the reason i say this is because this is the path i chose to go, but he wouldent do that to me, he would find this degrading, he would not do anything to belittle me he hasent yet anywayxx
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand your philosophy of wanting to submit to your husband and follow his lead (although it would not work for my relationship). However, where do you draw the line? I realize that you trust your husband with your whole life. And it sounds like he's a fantastic man.
> 
> I understand that the surrendered mindset does not include abusive men. I would think that this includes emotional abuse as well, correct? I personally think that any man who would ask his wife to stand in a corner is abusive. And while your husband might never ask you to do so, other men with real issues might stoop to this or something akin to this. I just think that this whole philosophy could be a little dangerous for women in some relationships.
Click to expand...


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## aribabe

This entire surrendered wife thread makes me very sad 

It seems to be so akin to man talking about how he used to be controlling, nagged about his wife's inappropriate dressing, had issues with her talking to men etc. But now he's become a surrendered (cuckolded) husband and has let all of that go. So now, if she want's to do that, she can. So now they're both happier. He's happy to let her and she's happy to do it.

The thing about abuse is that it's still abuse even if you're ok with it happening to you. Any woman that would seriously consider standing in a corner at her husband's demand is clearly an emotionally battered woman. There really is no other way to put it.

I do wish any surrendered wives here (or wherever honestly) the best of luck. It can be difficult to recognize an abusive situation when you are in one.


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## mandy123

Maricha75 said:


> I would say ok to this if you THINK he is going in the wrong direction. If you KNOW he has made a wrong turn, then point it out. Why would you let him continue, miles in the wrong direction, knowing he went the wrong way, and not speak up about it? That makes no sense, especially if there is a time constraint. I agree, no "I told you so"... but let him go whichever way he wants...just to not argue? :scratchhead:


but then if my husband chose to drive out of his way that would be his choice wouldent it???

like i said if i said to him i thought i knew the way, and he chose to ignore me and go his way, he chose to ignore me so it would be down to him he got it wrong.

lets put it this way what happened if i told him i knew the way and he went my way, and i was wrong and he was right all along, he would be peed off, and he wouldent be very happy, i dont like him to be unhappy.xxx


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## ScarletBegonias

mandy123 said:


> but then if my husband chose to drive out of his way that would be his choice wouldent it???
> 
> like i said if i said to him i thought i knew the way, and he chose to ignore me and go his way, he chose to ignore me so it would be down to him he got it wrong.
> 
> lets put it this way what happened if i told him i knew the way and he went my way, and i was wrong and he was right all along, he would be peed off, and he wouldent be very happy, i dont like him to be unhappy.xxx


the last part I get.If you're unsure of the way,you'd rather not offer it up as a suggestion bc it might be wrong.

but if you positively knew exactly where you were going and he was just winging it on the directions,I would think it would be annoying for you and a huge waste of time and gas to let him wander around lost.Would he ask you if you knew the way at which point you can offer up directions?


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## mandy123

aribabe said:


> This entire surrendered wife thread makes me very sad
> 
> It seems to be so akin to man talking about how he used to be controlling, nagged about his wife's inappropriate dressing, had issues with her talking to men etc. But now he's become a surrendered (cuckolded) husband and has let all of that go. So now, if she want's to do that, she can. So now they're both happier. He's happy to let her and she's happy to do it.
> 
> The thing about abuse is that it's still abuse even if you're ok with it happening to you. Any woman that would seriously consider standing in a corner at her husband's demand is clearly an emotionally battered woman. There really is no other way to put it.
> 
> I do wish any surrendered wives here (or wherever honestly) the best of luck. It can be difficult to recognize an abusive situation when you are in one.


i am sorry but i really do take offense of this post and your statement, i really do not think you have any right to just assume something about someone that you do not know, there is no way that i am an abused woman and i find this comment very disrespectful to me, as really you do not know me or my husband, he is in no way an abuser, i know someone a long time ago that was being beaten by her, boyfriend, that WAS abuse, this is not it is just another way of life.

i chose to surrender it was my will, my husband never held me down tied, me up or threatened me, i am in no way an emotionally battered woman, i am far from believe me, i am not brainwashed into the roll i am in, it was a choice and a happy one, i really think you need to read the book the surrendered wife by laura doyle or google it, you really shouldent just come on making assumptions about something you clearly have no clue about.

for instance i have just been sitting on the sofa laughing and joking with my husband him with his arm round me, and then i read what you put and it really upset me, not everybody agrees but saying someone is being emotionally abused is wrong in my book


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## mandy123

ScarletBegonias said:


> the last part I get.If you're unsure of the way,you'd rather not offer it up as a suggestion bc it might be wrong.
> 
> but if you positively knew exactly where you were going and he was just winging it on the directions,I would think it would be annoying for you and a huge waste of time and gas to let him wander around lost.Would he ask you if you knew the way at which point you can offer up directions?


i do not drive, but i just get in and he drives us, i do not tell him the way we have a sat nav anyway so we cant get lost:rofl:

in all honesty, he would ask me yes if i knew the way he wouldent just drive around, but then again if he dident like my answer he would go his own way anywayxxx


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## Therealbrighteyes

Like a Black hole, it continues to grow by absorbing matter from its surroundings. Remove the "food".


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## mandy123

momtwo4 said:


> mandy123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand your philosophy of wanting to submit to your husband and follow his lead (although it would not work for my relationship). However, where do you draw the line? I realize that you trust your husband with your whole life. And it sounds like he's a fantastic man.
> 
> I understand that the surrendered mindset does not include abusive men. I would think that this includes emotional abuse as well, correct? I personally think that any man who would ask his wife to stand in a corner is abusive. And while your husband might never ask you to do so, other men with real issues might stoop to this or something akin to this. I just think that this whole philosophy could be a little dangerous for women in some relationships.
> 
> 
> 
> i do understand that you say it wouldent work for your relationship and it wouldent for alot of people, but to me it does, i am not really sure where i would draw the line i do not think i could answer that question, i really do trust my husband with my life, and yes he is a fantastic man to me thats why i married him, but others might not find him one if you know what i mean
> 
> As with him telling me to stand in a corner, he has never done this nor do i think he would.
> 
> I agree that some men would, but then it is for them to decide if it would be for them or not, i really do think that it just depends on what type of relationship you are in and also depends on the individual,
> 
> I think people do think that a surrendered housewife is just a doormat, slave, robot, but it really is not, if i had all day to type i would give you a day in the life of me, but people really wouldent want thatxxx:lol:
Click to expand...


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## mandy123

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Like a Black hole, it continues to grow by absorbing matter from its surroundings. Remove the "food".


english please.


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## sandc

She doesn't like this subject matter.


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## Maricha75

mandy123 said:


> i do not drive, but i just get in and he drives us, i do not tell him the way *we have a sat nav anyway so we cant get lost*:rofl:
> 
> in all honesty, he would ask me yes if i knew the way he wouldent just drive around, but then again if he dident like my answer he would go his own way anywayxxx


Uhhhh... pray you don't get into an area where it can't pick up a signal. And yes, it DOES happen on occasion. So, yes, even with Navi, you can still get lost. :rofl:


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## HopelesslyJaded

Did we ever find out the why on the not driving? Just curious.


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## Therealbrighteyes

mandy123 said:


> english please.


Sure. What is daft?


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## 827Aug

Why the need to dredge up a thread from 2009?:scratchhead:


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