# REality THerapy and working on marriage



## Pavlov (Nov 18, 2008)

Hello everyone: I am new here and like many I come here looking for help and for support. I have one sort of question at the end of this, how to approach my wife about keeping her end of the bargain. 

But first As background, I just stumbled upon Reality Therapy (Dr Wm Glasser theory) as a friend had mentioned recommended it when I told here about how my wife is driving me nuts..

It has a lot of stuff that I know to be true and still it is hard to accept sometimes. Like one tenet is not to dwell on the past: the only thing that can help is to change thoughts and actions.

I pretty much know this to be true because pain really..the body doesnt have memory of pain. I can recall vividly old songs, and old smells (like my college dorm room) probably you can too. But emotional or physical pain I cannot recall at least not vividly. I know it sucked but the actual pain cannot be brought back. the body has some sort of defense mechanism here.

THink about it yourself. Maybe you broke a leg, can you actually bring back that pain in your mind? But think about "Sunshine Superman" and I can here the opening chords in my head...

Anyhow, I see there is truth there. I was writing down how much freakin pain my wife put me through and I was dwelling on it and after I read that bit (on Wikpedia no lesss) about Reality therapy, I can see they are right. It will not help much to simply read off this list of what you did to me that sucks...

Same with Criticism vis a vis Reality Therapy. I realized a few months ago that this is almost useless, people just turn off. I know I turn off. My wife has been big on the criticism mode the past few weeks (this is often a warning sign in my marriage) and I am trying to get her to see that is a waste. I told her yesterday "you know all I heard this afternoon was criticism and after that I just turned you off." 

She sort of gets it, but then maybe she doesnt I dont know. At times she is not rational and this is perhaps the hardest part to deal with. I think these irrational parts are rooted in some emotional cause but...

Anyhow, her response to my idea was "Well you tuned out your daughter last night. She asked for butter on bread and you TOASTED the bread..."

Jeezus christ, I explained to her that I always toast my father's bread (he lives with us and that is a strain on the marriage for sure) another person I work for likes it toasted and I just assumed butter on toast...

For Gods sake, it was ridiculous. That evening, I took back M's bread and got another non toasted one for her. I got up to change her tape in her vcr (she is 5 and like to fall asleep to videos), basically I cared for my wife and M last night as they relaxed and fell asleep. I thought about it more and more and then I just exploded..

I pounded the bed (we are discussing this in bed which is really not a good thing) and yelled "Really? Are freaking kidding me? Toasted bread? This is your big argument?..."

Of course it was absurd at this pt. I am arguing with wife about toasted bread. She then gets a turn and blabs on and on and then I finally say is it my turn to speak? 

You see, she has a habit of interrupting, not that I am perfect and not that i dont need work, this is just one aspect that she really cant control and I want her to work on tihs. So I finally get a chance to speak and she says "I know I'm not going to like this..."

Right? She expects the worst. SHe is shy and just so afraid. I have never hit my wife, I probably havent hit a human being in 40 years. She has hit me though. Just another self control issue, I dont regard it as abuse or a major problem, Im just saying she is so focused on bad stuff..

I say "This is why I married you...this is what I loved about you...this is what I loved about our relationship....etc."

I continued and told her that the criticism just has to stop, it is useless. some other stuff I cant remember...

I dont know if this did any good. We have started (the last few weeks) to sit down and write down rules for us to follow: I need to tell my wife she's appreciated stuff like that. We actually wrote these down and its sort of liek a contract.

It's silly sort of. THe first rule is "If my wife doesnt want to talk on the phone about some issue, she can just say I dont want to talk about it." Silly? But it came abuot because I called her and she got freaked out and started cussing and I said later what the hell was that all about? Well you called at a bad time..."

So we wrote down all these little rules, 16 so far.

One thing that bugs me: One rule is we agreed to spend at least 3 nights per week just being quiet, romantic, snuggle whatever. This was the same thing suggested by our marriage class we took 2 years ago. 

It's been two weeks since the rule was agreed to and we havent met that goal, just 2 night each week. I can see this (closeness) as the root problem. Being close to me is central before anything else can happen: Intimacy, Trust, COmmittment, etc. Once we can get close/intimate this stuff will take care of itself. 

Some 5 months ago, we agreed to talk at night x numer of times, it didnt happen, wife says she was willing but she poops out way too often, then she forgets about what happened. I tel her I was there waiting for you and you fell asleep. 

So I want to burst and tell her how much this sucks that she hasnt been close to me yet this week and Reality Therapy tells me:

Criticism, blame, is useless.
Looking at the past is almost useless, and one other thing:
Punishment is not really useful. It apparently just leads to more learned helplessness.

So here is where I am tonight. I can see the thinking here and I can see it is probably right. I dont know my next shot, just stay calm I guess.

ANy thoughts, support would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## kiwolf (Nov 18, 2008)

Punishment has a tendancy to make either party very upset or stresssed. right now i would probably say (with the problems i have in my marriage) that that is what my husband is doing to me. I have not had a good nights sleep in three days. I don't smile very often anymore, just occassionally. 

It's almost as if we have to relearn about each other and start something fresh. Because somewhere along the lines we got lost. Wether it be in our daily lives or lost in all the issues. I'm not sure. But I can say that the deployment my husband went through probably hasn't helped. 

He has become very withdrawn. And I mean very withdrawn. Me.. I'm scared. Within the past two weeks my thought patterns have done a bit of switching. I'm not longer critisizing or blaming.. I'm now starting to look more at me. Yes i'm scared, very scared that my marriage will just poof over my head. I think the hardest part for me is how I feel. I love this man...with every fiber of my being, but getting lost had caused me to start complaining and putting blame on not just him but myself as well. (and as they say A. Noone knows how to beat you up better then yourself B. it's tought to be the one that truely loves but is never truely loved in return ( not to say he doesn't love me but this is my point B. This is how i "feel") 

I sat down monday night and told him how "i" felt. What "i" thought. And no we haven't written any rules or regulations. I just told him that when he feels comfortable to come and talk to me and that until that time comes "I" have to do what's best for me. And since he has a block leave coming up from like the 27th of nov to the 3rd of jan, that even when he goes home for the time he goes home for, i'm going back home (ie our house) and i'll be there when he gets home. For some reason that seemed to make him realize that even time alone to get your mind clear or try to heal is not such a bad thing. But also, While I'm here at home, I'm going to quit smoking, i'm going to work on me. Considering my health is important and so am I. And yes I have told him this too. And I think he gets this part and seems to understand that in the mix of things i have started to feel like the front door mat.
And yes i've said that at some point, trying to get him to understand how I feel.
I no longer talk about everything i feel. Personally i think after the deployment, it's been more about getting back to normal, but i think he's afraid to talk to me about how he feels(I said think..might not be the right word but oh well), and he still has issues talking to me about how he feels. But when he shruggs his shoulders at me (well in the past two days) I have just said ok or whatever or laughed. Cause i can't make him change, all i can do is counter react to what's going on. So instead of bringing up how it makes me feel, i just started coping another way...


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## kiwolf (Nov 18, 2008)

you may also consider going online and finding something i started reading. Now mind you, you may also want to ask her is she is willing to read it first. The title is catchy but so far i've found that the author isn't to off base when talking about men. And this e-book has helped me come to realize that it's not just one of us. it's both of us.
Basically the book opened up my mind abit and made me look at what i was doing and what was missing in my marriage. It helped me get a grasp on what i've been doing wrong and give me other ways of handling it. Not to say that if you read this book your gonna like what you read but it gives good insite. 

The e-book is called what husband's can't resist. 

Like I said it's more motivated to put her in your shoes. Which is what it did for me. And now i'm starting to look at my husband abit differently and looking at myself and working on what i need to improve. 

See thing is I've also learned you can't change anyone but yourself. You can tell them how you feel but sometimes the way they perseve it is wrong, and that can be just as damaging.

Try using the "i" rather then the "u". I did that and it started to get me somewhere. Because blaming the other person and critisizing just makes matters worse. For example - I did that when i started talking to my husband about what i thought and felt. And he basically shut down and stopped listening to me. And man the body language just told me "whatever". Thing is, i didn't realize that I over stepped my own boundries by not listening to what i was seeing. Instead I kept going and going and going until everything I had to say was on the table. And that right there is probably what made my husband withdraw so badly. I didn't know when to stop. And now i've learned, you know there may be another way to approach this. I looked back on the things I had said, and thought you know I didn't mean to say that in this way... or that way. And i started to realize just exactly what I'd done.


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## Pavlov (Nov 18, 2008)

Ki: One thing I started with the basics. I mean the first rule I wanted to write was "Say good bye when you leave the house." 

THis sounds silly but a few months ago she had left the house w/o saying goodbye which pisses me off because for one thing she insists on it and its just good manners. Really when she fails to do it it's because she's pissed about something. But still I'd rather she say goodbye and that she's pissed rather than leave w/o saying anything. Part of my nature, confrontational. G is passive, shy.

So it wasnt a rule back then it was just Really you should do this.

So a few weeks ago she leaves w/o goodbye. I call her on the phone to question what happened (See? Now I have an excuse to call her and bug her...Not bug her, but because its a rule it gives me an opening to say "Hey lets talk..." ) So I call her and she's pissed and then she starts screaming and cursing, in front of our daught who is 5. 

Now my wife is not like that at all, very kind, never swears, almost never. So obviously something wrong. Well we talk about it later and she says she's stressed out, and when I call here like that she's not ready to talk and she needs to retreat.

So we write first rule: "If you dont want to talk on phone, say I cant talk now." 

Silly but now I have given in on an issue. I want to talk, I want to talk as soon as the problem arises. She doesnt so we write the first rule. She can retreat and not say anything. 

Okay; Now I say "can we get back to saying GOodbye which is important?"

well no, she starts talking about how I dont take care of Dad right. I dont drain the catheter before he goes to bathroom, bla bla bla.

Okay "Hold on, look dad has lots of problems, I cant solve all these issues in one week or one day. What's one thing you want me to do better?"

"Drain catheter before he goes.'

OKay "Rule 2: drain catheter etc."

Now can we get back to saying Goodbye?

Okay, so we write a rule.A stupid rule we already know to do since we were in first grade.

But see the rule helps. If someone breaks it, you know something is wrong. ANd if it happens now you have a ready made opening for discussion.

OF course the whole time I thinking: "This is so effed up, I have to write two more rules before I can even begin to get to my issue. WHich is NOT AN ISSUE anyhow because anyone would know how to do this..."

But I dont say anything like that, I just hold it in. But this is sort of how it works. we are bargaining the smallest things because I guess we have so much pain and frustration.

ANyhow, it's actually starting to work...:lol:


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## Pavlov (Nov 18, 2008)

So my wife at first was like "Why do you have to write everything down. Cant we just SAY this?"

Well there's a pt. there and at this pt. I dont think we will write many more rules, because reality is we both KNOW what the other wants, we ***** about these issues so much it's no mystery: M is pissed I stay up at night on the internet, I am pissed if she wont have sex so I go on internet, she wants me to do stuff w/o having to tell me, etc. 

We both know the issues but somehow all the frustration has made it so we are afraid to try to do what the other wants because we are afraid we will not get what we want.

That is part of the idea of writign it down.

Deep inside I thinking:

[yes we have to write this down because every time I ask you why you didnt have sex for two weeks Sept, you seem to forget that " Was it really two weeks, Gee I cant remember all that." Or you said not to put my stuff away but you didnt say the ping pong table was "MY" stuff.. etc.]

So yes we write these rules down. BUt another reason to write it down. It helps as a VISUAL. 


So a few days later we are arguing about another rule. "Why you dont kiss me goodnight. Do I have to ask you to do this? We wnat to make a rule to say goodnight...

She sez; "NO, you still dont get it with dad, you dont know how to help him, you dont...bla bla bla..'

SO I hold up the note card with Rule 2...."See this? THis is rule 2. We said that dad has a million issues and we are only going to solve them one at a time. So I am working on this one rule. Just one, we are breaking down the problem into slices. I will try to solve one problem this week. Right?"

"Right."

"So there's no need to get back to dad right now. For today, dad is on hold and we can move on to other issues. Right?"

"Yeah okay."

SO it works like that. So I can see, LOok wife you are repeating the same sheeet. HOLDS UP CARD. Le't move on. WIthout having to say that in so many words.

Another way the note cards help: 

G has written her own rule for her love languages.

"You see this, these are my love languages, when you ignore these you ignore me. I feel like a piece of sheeet, I feel like nothing, you ignore this and you kill me. This is the one RUle that's most important."

I pick up the entire stack of note cards, maybe 8 or 10 at this pt.

"You see this stack of notes? These are all the rules. Everyone one of these is important to me. None of them are more important than the others,they are all equally important..."

And I think she buys that. It makes sense, they're all important. Both sides can agree with that.


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## Pavlov (Nov 18, 2008)

Another way the cards help, to encourage restraint of tongue.

G has a bad habit of interrupting when I am making a pt. ANd my pts can go on for a long while, when I make a pt, and I hit her feelings, she immediately wants to interrupt and say...

"And I say look you are not listening to the whole pt. you are going to miss the pt. Now I have to address your pt but I have the floor and I need to say this, and you've interrupted me three times now and I still havent gotten to the pt.."

So she grabs a note card and starts to write. I wont say she does it all the time or even most of the time. But now at least she's gotten to sometimes she can write it down and hold the thought for later.

So the card help to STRUCTURE the discussion. Just like Parliamentary procedure. Every issue needs to be addressed but you can only decide on issue at a time.

So I hold up a card and say "We are not on that issue now, we addressed that issue for this week, stop changing the argument."

OR we hold up a card and say "Write it down so when it's your turn you wont forget, it's my turn now, this is how grown ups speak. They take turns." 

The cards have myraid of uses. I look up at the bulletin board in my office one day and see G has tacked up her 5 LOVE LANGUAGES rule to my bulletin board.

I chuckle. Yeah okay she sees the pt..

She has calmed down considerably since our argument on Sun. She has had trouble with her back and when it tightens up it is a warnign sign that she is stressed out. We both know that. By mon. she had loosened up her back and was much calmer.

We talked on Tue. I realize she was not ready for sex, but she wanted me to stay in bed and just hold her. WHich I did. Which I should do every night but probably will not do it 365 days a year, but will try for a lot more...

So I am starting to get it too.

One idea of Reality theory is there is no punishment. The idea is that Punishment will simply continue the cycle of learned helplessness. Lets see how it works for me.

At times I get frustrated sexually. I wont say this is how I operate most of the time. Or even 20% of the time. But it happens at night, for a couple of hours. My wife is too tired for sex or not up to it and I get pissed. My thoughts go off I start to think of all the ultimatums I will lay down tomorrow....

The next day I wake up and realize that that was all nonsense I am not going to threaten divorce over one night of no sex. It's insane really...

But I am into this idea that if she wont have sex, I will go do my thing on the internet. usually just talkign to my friends, my hobbies are music etc. I am not into hard core porn, but I will visit the play boy sites too...

So the other night, I tell her, look why cant you come back to bed when M gets cranky? M is 5 now, you can come back to our bed.

"Well I get tired and fall asleep."

[Now my wife knows this is an issue and is trying to come back to our bed when M wakes up]

"Well tired doesnt cut it..."

"Well you stay up on the internet all night and have the time I dont know where you are in the middle of the night."

So that's true. I know that's true and for the next couple of nights I stay in bed with my wife. I have to get rid of this idea that I will do X because you did Y to me...

THe idea that punishment doesnt work is also very liberating. My whole plan is now, stay in bed at night, dont go on the internet, just hold her. And hope she will come around.

ANd if that doesnt work? THen make another plan. Maybe the other plan is divorce.

But DO NOT leave the bed as punsihment for no sex.

See? THis is one cycle that was hurting us and its partly my fault I can see that.

Well that's all for now. Hope you can get somethign out of this. Good tidings do you Ki.

Let me know how it's going.


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