# I hurt my wife and now i'm facing the consequences



## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Hello,

I'm 39 and in a five year marriage with a three year old son.

Have been separated from wife for about three weeks now. Her choice, she got fed up of asking me to change habits and mature and bee responsable with my actions and i never erally did.

I hurt her with stupid lies from the beginning (most dumb lies), me being a comulsive liar.

She is hurt, doesn't trust me, she felt unprotected, disrespected mostly with myself drinking too much and not being responsable about it. I told her i would change and haven't drank in a long time, this is something i can control.

She feels i lied to her about who i was when we first met. She saw me as someone responsable, mature and decided and she doesn't believe i'm any of those anymore. Told her i got depressed at work about some promotion that never came, which i told her a month ago and that i stopped trying and working on the marriage but that i didn't put on a show so she fell for me-. She had me on pedestal and that pedestal broke.

I believe she had too big expectations of me and the marriage.

We went to MC two times but she felt she couldn't deal with this at the moment, that she was fed up with me promising to change and not delivering. She feels like i have issues from my childhood (divorced parents and more) that are making me not reach my potential and not making me a happy person, therefore i cannot make anyone happy right now.

So we both started to do IC, me to deal with personal issues that are disturbing my ability to be in a healthy relashioship and her to deal with the anger and resentment she has towards me.

Right now she's more hurt and disillusioned tan angry right now i believe.

I come home to pick up my son three days a week to take him to school and see him a couple of days and taking him out.

She feels i took her for granted and my family for granted which is true.

She expects me to change for myself, for my son and for the future as she doesn't know what's going to happen with us.

Either she's still thinking her desition and looking at all the possible scenarios or she's waiting to see if i can really change and maybe give the marriage another chance, i don't know. Reconcilation right now looks very Slim.

I'm full of regrets and mad at myself for not seeing the signs that she was unhappy and for not looking for help earlier.

There hasn't been any cheating on any part. And there are no OW or OM at the momento, that is not the issue as our issues has been going for maybe two years from now.

Reading some postcards she gave me for our first and second anniversary she stated "thank you for being the perfect man, husband and friend", "you make me the happiest woman in the world" "Everyday i thank God for having you in my life".

So even with my compulsive liying since the beggining she was happy and we were happy once. Things changed a lot when my son was born. I told her another lie yesterday, stupid lie of where i was. She found out and was very dissapointed telling me "When you're suppose to show changes this is want you do?" i told her i was trying but years of bad habits take time to change, she said "You're not trying enough", so she says "she's hurt and fed up right now and don't know what's going to happen.

I have given her the space she wanted, i have not pressued her, i stopped making stupid and jealous remarks of insecurity. I believe with therapy, the help of God and my will 'am making positive changes. If she can see or believe is another story.

Any advice?


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## sculley (Jun 6, 2012)

What's scary is reading your post because if it wasn't for your age this sounds exactly like my situation with my husband and unfortunately it didn't get better after practically running myself into the ground to do so. I came home the other night to my SO wedding ring and divorce papers on my bed and he commenced to drinking nonstop... So I don't want to tell your your marriage is doomed to fail however if you two don't put your all into it at the same time and learn to trust and communicate you will end up like this. Going through a rough divorce and unfortunately sometimes people have to hit rock bottom (sorry I am saying you) to realize they have a drinking problem etc.... I'm sorry you are going through this however bein in your wife's position I feel more for her


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## sculley (Jun 6, 2012)

I waited for my husband to change for many years. Through all the rough stuff he dragged me through I wanted to fix it and believe him but unfortunately it never got better


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

sculley said:


> I waited for my husband to change for many years. Through all the rough stuff he dragged me through I wanted to fix it and believe him but unfortunately it never got better


I'm not an alcoholic. But sometimes when i drink i don't know when to stop. Not an abusive personality or violent, but do get drunk.

She got tired of this and other BS with my inmaturity and there goes the separation.

I'm working hard on myself to be a better person for myself and my son because i don't know what's going to happen between my wife and I.

So far, and i only drink/drank when i'm in a good mood, haven't had more tan two glasses of wine or two beers. That is something i can control.

Wether my wife's wounds heal enough to want to give the relationship another chance i don't know.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Anyone?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Got nothing for you. Im the head 007 here.

When posters with your story show up and say no affair. About three fourths find an affair, sometimes years later.

Not all affairs are 24/7 sex.

Read the thread by poster bagdon is about the closest i can think of.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Regretf said:


> i told her i was trying but years of bad habits take time to change


Take it from someone in a similar situation, you don't have time to change. If it's not too late already (and you may have to accept this), there is often a VERY limited window in which your spouse will wait for the man she wants, no, NEEDS you to be.

I'd strongly recommend counselling, for you, ASAP. And not so she can see you work on your issues, so YOU can work on your issues. Even if the two of you don't make it, you HAVE to fix yourself if you hope to move forward.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You don't change to win her back. You change to become a better man, with no expectations of her, and maybe she'll notice. If not you'll be a better man.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> Take it from someone in a similar situation, you don't have time to change. If it's not too late already (and you may have to accept this), there is often a VERY limited window in which your spouse will wait for the man she wants, no, NEEDS you to be.
> 
> I'd strongly recommend counselling, for you, ASAP. And not so she can see you work on your issues, so YOU can work on your issues. Even if the two of you don't make it, you HAVE to fix yourself if you hope to move forward.


I know, i'm in counseling right now and i know i have to make the changes NOW.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Regretf said:


> I know, i'm in counseling right now and i know i have to make the changes NOW.


You have to want to make the changes. And that has to be a conscious decision. And it has to be for you. NOT her. If you're not doing it for you, and if you come out of every session thinking "this'll make her happy. I'm different now", you WILL fail. When and IF she see's a change, a permanent change, it won't be immediate, and it won't be believed for even longer. Right now, she's got every shield she has, up. 

Take a look at this post of mine, and this letter i wrote my Wife. I finally broke through and was able to see the pain, my pain, that i wasted spraying over everyone that got close to me. And she (like your Wife) stood the closest, and so caught the worst of it. 

And read No More Mr Nice Guy. I promise, it will almost mention you (like me) by name. 


Finally, as i said above. You're going to have to accept that your marriage may be over. Until you do, you can't move on. I only hope that, at some point, she will see the man you are going to become, and want to be with him.

I wish you only good luck.

Edit: And don't tell her you are changing (..."but it takes time"). Words mean nothing to her now. Actions, visible, tangible actions will. Eventually. Hopefully.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> You have to want to make the changes. And that has to be a conscious decision. And it has to be for you. NOT her. If you're not doing it for you, and if you come out of every session thinking "this'll make her happy. I'm different now", you WILL fail. When and IF she see's a change, a permanent change, it won't be immediate, and it won't be believed for even longer. Right now, she's got every shield she has, up.
> 
> Take a look at this post of mine, and this letter i wrote my Wife. I finally broke through and was able to see the pain, my pain, that i wasted spraying over everyone that got close to me. And she (like your Wife) stood the closest, and so caught the worst of it.
> 
> ...


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> You have to want to make the changes. And that has to be a conscious decision. And it has to be for you. NOT her. If you're not doing it for you, and if you come out of every session thinking "this'll make her happy. I'm different now", you WILL fail. When and IF she see's a change, a permanent change, it won't be immediate, and it won't be believed for even longer. Right now, she's got every shield she has, up.
> 
> Take a look at this post of mine, and this letter i wrote my Wife. I finally broke through and was able to see the pain, my pain, that i wasted spraying over everyone that got close to me. And she (like your Wife) stood the closest, and so caught the worst of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the words. They hit close to home right now. I will read your post and letter.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks for the words. They hit close to home right now. I read your email and post. Different situation tan mine, some similarities. I don't think i was a D%ck to mi wife. I neglected her, toke her for granted, didn't see the red flags she was trying to tell me a and dissapointed her and disilusioned her.

She said she fought for the relationship fo so long and now she's fed up. Doesn0t know what she feels and doesn0t know what will happen, doesn't know if she loves me or not, doesn0t knoiw anything.

She's afraid of letting her guard down and getting hurt again and she doesn't trust me and can't stand me right now.

The thing is we haven't even celebrated our 5th aniversary, it's not like 15,20 years of hurt and neglect. The first two years were really good. I have reread postcards she sent me back then saying "i thank gor for having the perfect man", "you make me the happiest woman in the world, blah, blah"

So it's been two years of bad communication and one year of really no communication. Still she's hurt, shielded, undecided (which is killing me) dissapointed, feels like i led her to believe i was somebody else.

I will change for myself, because i know i have a lot of baggage from my chilhood that has affected me all my life and my relationships. How long will it take?, i don't know?. She told me she doesn't know if she can't stand that long.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

With your history of compulsive lying, there is nothing you can say to her. You are going to have to show her you can change. In order to do that, you are going to have to change. That means facing down whatever demons from your past are haunting you. Childhood issues, repressed memories, past wrongs triggering feelings of guilt and shame. Whatever they are, figure them out.

As others have said, She may or may not come around in the end. But you will come out stronger for trying if you apply yourself to your recovery, and just be an open book with her. Leave it her choice.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Acoa said:


> With your history of compulsive lying, there is nothing you can say to her. You are going to have to show her you can change. In order to do that, you are going to have to change. That means facing down whatever demons from your past are haunting you. Childhood issues, repressed memories, past wrongs triggering feelings of guilt and shame. Whatever they are, figure them out.
> 
> As others have said, She may or may not come around in the end. But you will come out stronger for trying if you apply yourself to your recovery, and just be an open book with her. Leave it her choice.


Thanks.

I'm working on myself as hard as i can, going to therapy and figuring out what's wrong with me and why do i keep doing things that are not in my best interest and others (relationships).

I really want to change for the better, not only because of this, but because of my son and myself. God give me strength.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You say you want to change. The lying is a huge thing as you know.

In your OP you stated that you lied just the other day about where you had been. Then she found out.

Why did you lie about this? Was it because you were somewhere that would have upset her?


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Regretf said:


> I don't think i was a D%ck to my wife.



She might disagree...

Listen to the 'choir', we're all saying basically the same thing. There's a reason for that. 


I wish you luck.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> You say you want to change. The lying is a huge thing as you know.
> 
> In your OP you stated that you lied just the other day about where you had been. Then she found out.
> 
> Why did you lie about this? Was it because you were somewhere that would have upset her?


I lied because i was on my way to my brother's where i'm staying and i told her at was at my dad's, she found out i wasn't there. i told her that i was at my dads because i didn't wanted her to think i was only at my brother's crying my heart out, i wanted her to think i'm doing different things. She didn't even asked me where i was.

Stupid me, stupid compulsive lying. I'm working on that and in the meantime i'm trying not to tell lies to anyone, be true to myself.

Today when i spoke to her in the morning because of my son. i told her i was going to go home for lunch (she isn't there at that time), she told me there wasn't much left over food, just some and that i should have told her before (meaning she would have cooked something), because she isn't cooking everyday. I told her no sweat that i'll see about it. And she said that if i went to eat to leave her some food. Which i did.

Weird being in my house, i felt OK at times but i also felt sadness that things got to this point.

I really, really want to be a better man, and there are no guarantees, she might tell me in a few weeks/months, i don't love you anymore or i don't want to continue in the marriage and with all the sadness in mmy heart and regrets i would have to accept it.

Even her not knowing what she feels and what's going to happen makes me wonder because it's taking her a lot of time and self awereness to come to a desition. She says that she doesn't want to make a desition son and then be sorry about it.

Don't know if it's good or bad that even she doesn't know what road to take. Clearing her thoughts on her feelings and/or waiting to see if there's any real change in me.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> She might disagree...
> 
> Listen to the 'choir', we're all saying basically the same thing. There's a reason for that.
> 
> ...


You guys may be right, because there are many reasons why she fells hurt, unnapreciated, taken for granted, disrespected, lied to, unprotected.

I cannot change the past and i told her that many times, i told her on monday that everyday of my life is filled with regret, wrong desitions, remorse. Because she and my son are the most beautiful, wonderful things that have happend to me and i didn't validate that and took that for granted and feel very sorry about it. That i understand her reasons for wanting space and wanting air in the middle of this mist, that i don't blame her and respect that and that i will give her the space she needs, no pushing, no pressure, no getting in her face. And that i'm doing the best i can right now to become a better man.

Obviously she doesn't trust me and i told her i understand that and that i will make the best out of each day.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I also got to add that she's beginning IC this thursday. she's doesn't want to have feelings of anger and resentment towards me and wants to find out what has she done or not done to contribute to this feelings. I feel this is a positive step, because i believe i'm responsable for a lot of our issues, she has contributed to a lot too. Mainly lack of comunication from both of us.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The lying about being at your father's, you are right that it's a pretty stupid reason to lie.

Why would she think that your are crying is you are driving to your brother's place? Why wouldn't she just think you were driving?

I've heard that people who are pathological liars lie because they do not like their reality. So they try to create a new one that they are more comfortable with. That lie you told does sound like it falls into that category.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> The lying about being at your father's, you are right that it's a pretty stupid reason to lie.
> 
> Why would she think that your are crying is you are driving to your brother's place? Why wouldn't she just think you were driving?
> 
> I've heard that people who are pathological liars lie because they do not like their reality. So they try to create a new one that they are more comfortable with. That lie you told does sound like it falls into that category.


You're no psychologist, but you're right. I'll have to see that with my therapist, maybe today.

I lie and lie because yeah i didn't/don't like my reality/life and wanted to créate a new one.

She still upset because when we were dating i told her things about my family that were not true, like my sister being married while she never was and other things about my mother which now i forget, but she still resentful that i wasn't honest with her from the get go. Told her it was hard for me to deal with those things and express them and tell the truth about it. And i know that will shoe in therapy son.

She's digging Little or big things from years ago, things i said or didn't say. She's in a very negative state about me and/or the relationship, which i understant with her being hurt. Only thing i can do is leave her alone and work on myself.

When i went home for lunch today i put some dishes back in the cabinets and washed/put away my son's milk bottles (things that i used to do), i put on a new trash bag in the trash can, i don't know maybe i should have left the kitchen like it was, but eating there today i felt it was the least i could do.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

So my therapy went gerat yesterday. Found out (and i knew this and my wife had told me this), that with all good intentions i had coming into the marriage i had no role model, no figure to shape my marriage. My dad being absent the first 11 years of my life and my stepdad being an %&shole. The world is filled with good intentions but i need more tan that to make my life work. Regathless of the outcome of me and my wife i need to understand better my problems, my shortcomings, my situation so it won't cause the same problems IF we get back together or IF i get into another relationship in the future.

I also fell into a "confort zone" about two, two and a half years ago, when our problems started to get real. Comfort zone with my job, my life, my wife, everything. I became complacent and my wife resents that. And more so that i never told her how i was feeling.

At this point i can only begin to understand what went wrong with me and us. We stopped working on the marriage. At first we didn't need to work on because we were "in love"!, after my son was born, we stopped working on the marriage and i thought things would eventually get better. My wife thought just telling me stuff i was doing wrong would make me realize were we where heading. it didn0t work.

I have to work on myself tremendously to be a healthy better man, for myself first and for my son. Who knows what the future departs. Therapist told me that my wife needs to find out what she feels and what she wants. There's not much that i can do but work on myself. That i should have a time frame of how long i can put up with this (i have thought mid december) and talk to her then. What have you thought?, what do you want?, do you need more time?

As you know it could go either way. She might come around and give us one more chance and we would have to work real hard on the relationship or she could jusy say "i''m done with this, i don't want to continue. And i would have to accept that.

In the meantime my wife starts her IC today to find answers, to deal with the anger and resentment she feels and find out how she feels and if whatever love she has left for me is enough to want to continue.

I can only give her space and pray a lot.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

You're getting it, my 'brother'. :smthumbup:

FWIW, my 'Dad' (adopted, absentee anyway) bailed when i was 11, and my StepDad was beating me before he even married my Mum. (she's only known since i recently told her). NOT that she was an angel herself (hairbrush, slipper, etc...)


Stay on the path, If you're true to yourself, release your anger, and stick with therapy, you'll get to places you'd never knew and arrive as a better man.

There's another VITALLY important reason you deal with this, and beat it now. My boys are older (20's) and I see the damage my anger, pain, and emotional distance have done to them. 

If you falter and thinking about 'doing it for you' isn't enough (sometimes it won't be), think about your boy. What kind of man does he what his Father to be? What kind of Father do YOU want to be? In the roughest times, focus on that.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> You're getting it, my 'brother'. :smthumbup:
> 
> FWIW, my 'Dad' (adopted, absentee anyway) bailed when i was 11, and my StepDad was beating me before he even married my Mum. (she's only known since i recently told her). NOT that she was an angel herself (hairbrush, slipper, etc...)
> 
> ...


That's what i do. my boy is only three and i have to step up and be a good example for him. I want to be with him and not have him go through what i went. I want him to be secure, self confident and get to the highest places he can.

In part the idea of not being there for him saddens me a lot. There are things thati cannot control like the outcome of my wife and i's situation. But i would really would like it to be positive so i can always be there for him. To have him grow in a separated home breaks my heart.

I know that even separatedwe can be good parents to him and always be there for him, but i feel this is very unfair for him, you know, if the wrost happens he won't have memories of his mom and dad together, this alone depresses the hell out of me, what's happening it's not his fault you know. moments like this i wish i could go back two years and done something so we wouldn't be in this position, but i can't. I would't want him in a few years "why is dad not living with us?", he doesn't deserve this, i know i'm getting emotional and i don't want him to have any disadvantages going on with life, specially when all of this or most of this could have been dealt with earlier.

I believe, and sorry for saying this, that if the wrost happens i would probably would never forgive me for letting this happen, for putting ourselves in this situation, specially my boy.


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## BaxJanson (Apr 4, 2013)

I'd be wary of the term 'compulsive lying."

It excuses you from responsibility, put your lies into the realm of something you can't control. Something which you can do nothing about. 

But it's you. You choose to lie. You aren't compelled to. It's merely habitual. You have a habit of lying. You are a liar. 

Your wife knows that, and wisely does not trust anything you say - why should she? You're a liar. Even when you say that you want to change, why should she trust you? You are a liar. Those lies may be born of a desire for excitement, or out of fear of the truth, or even a desire to help or protect her - but every one of them does two things - puts more space between the two of you, and teaches her that she's right not to trust you. 

Want to change that? Stop lying. Tell the truth every single time, big and small - especially the small. If you catch yourself lying, stop, admit that you were lying, and tell the truth. Be harsher and more vigilant on yourself than she is. If you can do all that, and if she sees it, and if she chooses to believe you, and if she chooses to forgive you, then you may have another shot. 

But even if not, you won't be a liar anymore.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

BaxJanson said:


> I'd be wary of the term 'compulsive lying."
> 
> It excuses you from responsibility, put your lies into the realm of something you can't control. Something which you can do nothing about.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply.

That's exactly what i'm doing. telling the truth every single time. The times i have caught myself lying i have corrected and told the truth. Long journey proving it bu i know i can do it.

I'm also working on the 180 plan and find out the more i stick to it the better reactions i get from her and the less anxious i become. It is hard because i still have to talk to her everyday when i call to talk to my son either in the mornings or/at night and when i picked him up for school or take him out (visit the house and sometimes stay in there with him on mondays while my wife sees patients). So it's hard having NC because i still need to have it for my son.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Wife picked up my son and just texted me:

***** is O.K.

He's in the apartment with my mother, i'm waiting for my appointment (IC)

I replied: O.K.


So i have to keep it like this. Will call later tonight to talk to my son, won't mention anything personal or how did she do in he counseling, just stick to everything related to my son. 

180. Keep my head up and strong.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Well things have been going better with me. I have my days. Had a long talk with wife on saturday. Mostly about things i have been discovering with my IC. Things that i wanted hidden and tought never affected me but they did, specially not having a role model to model my marriage and things that happend to me in chilhood that still affect me. My wife was glad i was dealing with these things now and i told her i should have dealt with them long time ago. 

She started her IC but didn't tell me how that went.

I told her that i'm on a good road and that i know i can get better and i'm seeing results, she was glad.

Told her i know i'm not ready to move back to the house and she said i'm not ready for you to move back either and honestly don't know if i ever will (ouch).

She said that's she still hurt from emotionally abandoned her and other things like trust and lack of maturity and that she's afraid to let her guard down and let herself be hurt again (understandable).

She says she's mdoesn't feel alone right now because i left her emotionally alone for the last two years, which in part is true, but she also abandoned me emotionally, we both did, and didn't do anything baout it for close to two years. Hopefully she'll see this in therapy, it was BOTH our responsability and neither did anything.

I asked her why she feels like i tricked her into the marriage, making her believe that i was something which i wasn't.

She said i wasn't honest with her about things that had happend in my family, things that affected me and i pretended i was OK and thta those things didn't get to me and that i told her later or she found out later abouth those screw up things in my family and that she was hurt because i wasn0t hones or sincere with her and that she deserved to know because that way she would have been more prepared to deal tih my issues (i think that she meant i should have been told or you should have been hones with me about how broken you were that way i would have been more prepared to deal with things). That and other of my lies, hiding things from her or not telling her some other stuff led her to not trust me, my trus level with her is negative right now according to her. I said you know i was lying to myself, making me believe i was somebody else, thta these things never affected me and thats who i wanted the world to see, who i wanted to be, but i never, never tricked you on purpose, more like i wanted to trick myself, and she agreed.

She then said that if US didn't work out in the end and if i ever found another person i should be honest with her since the beggining, i said now with IC i see you were right long time ago.

I said, you know, i'm glad i told yoiu about my therapy and the breakthru i'm going through, i'm glad i can tell you that now and i said even though we are separated i believe communication should be important for us still, and she agreed. I said i love you and i understand why we have to go thru this and now i see why you're hurt and why you were unhappy and i'm sorry for that, i totally get you right now. She said, you were unhappy too, with your life, work, with things going on inside you. I said yes, thankfully IC is helping a lot and i'm finding my way and motivation again.

I mentioned earlier to her that i got a pretty high score in my yearly work evaluation and that i was going to get a good salary adjustment and that my boss told me that she has seen the improvement in my attitutde, my drive and my motivation in the last months and encourage me to kee it going. I told my wife i just want to share this with my wife. She was very happy for me, i'm happy for you, really, very happy. And mentioned later that she was glad i got my motivation for work back (that's some of the things she complained that i had lost down the road, the drive).

Long post, yeah i know, just wanted to vent-.

Thanks for Reading.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

All in all, a pretty positive and constructive post. i'm liking everything that was mentioned in the post. You said the right things and seemed to get appreciative responses.

Personally i think you should have held off on the "move back to the house" mention. WHHHAAAAYYYYY too soon to bring that up. As soon as i started to read that sentence, i could actually hear her shields come up! 

Remember how i mentioned about "i'm in therapy, it's working. Lookit me now!" That's exactly what i was referring to. I'm not saying you did it 'wrong', but you're in a situation where SHE has to decide to come back to you. All you can do, should do, is focus on you, improve you. Let her see you change, and trust it (which is the bit that takes time). 

You're playing the long game. Patience. Lots of patience.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> All in all, a pretty positive and constructive post. i'm liking everything that was mentioned in the post. You said the right things and seemed to get appreciative responses.
> 
> Personally i think you should have held off on the "move back to the house" mention. WHHHAAAAYYYYY too soon to bring that up. As soon as i started to read that sentence, i could actually hear her shields come up!
> 
> ...


Thanks Day One, really appreciate your comments.

I know the bit about the therapy i should have held it a bit longer. I'm seeing changes in myself and breakthrus with things thta have happend in my life, i wanted to share that with her. And wanted to know exactly what she meant when she said "there where things you should have told me before we got married, so i would have known..." now i know it wasn't exactly THE THINGS but the dishonesy and lack of sincerity.

The part about moving back to the house, yeah you're right. i told her honestly that i knew i wasn't ready to move back yet, because i still have to work on myself, and of course her shields went up "I'm not ready either and don't know if i ever will".


Today i will spend time with my son while she sees patients, once she comes back i will NOT engage with her or tell her anything. i will say goodbye to my son, hug and kiss him and the say, goodbye, see you tomorrow (will pick my son up to take him to school).

The 180 i have to follow through.

Patience, patience, patience. Have to repeat that to myself and calm myself down. No screw ups, no lying, no pressuring her or engaging with her. Working on myself.

My next IC is on wednesday, lookign forward to it.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

So yesterday went according to plan. Got home arounf 4:45 to be with my son, my wife's patient was at 6 so while she was on the treadmill i was playing with my son and enjoying it so much. He kept going back to the master bedroom where my wife was and i was running after him. For awhile i felt as if nothing had happend and that we were a family again, it was good but not the truth i know. Then my wife left to see her patient i played on the computer with my son and fed him, i had a sandwhich too.

She came back frustrated because she couldn't find the lightbulb she needed to replace one in the bathroom and told me about the long line at the supermarket.

I proceeded to get up and say goodnight to my son and hugged him, she was her usual coldness i i acted the same, cold and said "goodnight i'll come tomorrow to come pick him up", she said ok.

I left the house and as son as i got into my car i started crying, crying, pouring my heart out. This is so difficult, having to leave my house, my son, my wife. not being able to kiss her or hold her like i used to breaks my heart. Got to my brother's place and after awhile i calm myself and know that she's going to be this way for a long time and i cannot excpect any changes so soon.

This morning i went to pick my son up, she had textedt me "good morning, we'll wait for you in the garage" as i was about five minutes late.

Day One or whoever reads this, i'm trying to be strong and not show any emotion in front of her, but this is the most difficult thing i have ever been through and it breaks my heart everyday.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

I hear you, mate. I do. We all have days where it just looks like shiat. (as my post proves ). But we're here to support each here, so stay strong in front of her (or at least fake it really well!), lose it completely when out of her sight (we all do it!), and then get on here and vent! :smthumbup:


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> I hear you, mate. I do. We all have days where it just looks like shiat. (as my post proves ). But we're here to support each here, so stay strong in front of her (or at least fake it really well!), lose it completely when out of her sight (we all do it!), and then get on here and vent! :smthumbup:


Thanks for the support Day One. really tough, but like you said, we are here to support each other.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Regretf said:


> Thanks for the support Day One. really tough, but like you said, we are here to support each other.




I would read about the biology of love. I am going through the same thing, and we are the same age. I have been married 4 years and I have a son as well 

Basically in a relationship the first couple of years are the honeymoon stage,(brain chemicals) then you come to the conflict stage where your partner now notices things about you they don't like. You haven't changed, just how they view you has changed. This exists in every relationship. True love and intimacy can be reached after this stage. 

Don't beat yourself up so much. I have always been pretty much the same guy. My wife loved me for two years, then didn't. In her case she started cheating , most likely with emotional affairs online at first. 

You will get stronger, and even if you get divorced you will adapt. 

Part of me wonders if the man "trying to change" is all a waste of time. You could become super dad and husband, and most likely your wife is just the type to run at this stage.

As you said, you lied at the beginning and your wife loved you more than ever. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Regretf said:


> You're no psychologist, but you're right. I'll have to see that with my therapist, maybe today.
> 
> I lie and lie because yeah i didn't/don't like my reality/life and wanted to créate a new one.
> 
> ...


Same thing. When I recently asked my wife why she wants a divorce it was because of a gym membership I did not get her three years ago, and some yard lights I didn't buy 2 years ago. Easier to completely blame me than actually look at herself. 

I honestly think some women enjoy being married and some do not. It is more of a maturity level. Maybe your wife had fairy tale expectations built up for decades no man could meet just don't beat yourself up as this happens to lots of good men all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Everything OK, RegretF?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Yeah. Long update.

Maybe 10 days ago i told her i was going to be going home for lunch a couple of times a week. She said that she was cooking just about enough food for her and my son, and that if there wasn't any i was going to have to make my own. I lookd at her kind of funny and said, "you know, this is still my house too" i know, i know, mistake. She said " i know where you're going and if that is the case i'll pay you half of everything" i said don't worry, that is not the case and left it at that.

Last tuesday i did come home for lunch and cooked my own food (since wife is in victim mode she won't move a finger for me right now which i understand). I made the mistake of finding a piece of paper in some drawer that had all of my sons yearly expenses. So i freaked out and thought, well this is it, she is thinking about divorce seriously. So later she texted me saying that she had picked our son and that he was OK. She asked me what did i do when i came home for lunch and i told her i tried to use the Google Tv but it wasn't working and rested a bit. She said "didn't occured to you to try to fix it?", my son watches a lot of videos with that thing, so i said i tried but had to leave. She said O.K., forget it. i said i will drop by when i have time and fix it.

So i came later, they weren't there and fix it. left and told her when needed to talk later. You know, if she wants the divorce, better know where i stand.- She said. O.k:

So i came home at 9 and we talked for an hour.

I told her i'm going through all this cleasing and proccess of working on myself and i don't understand why you tell me this things about me not fixinx this and i don't know if you want to provoke me.

She said i'm done with telling to do things, if you still lived here you would have fixed the Google TV because you would ahve used it later. The other day you saw there was a light bulb that needed to be changed and you didhn't say anything, she said it would have surprised me if you chanhed it and i would have tought to myself "hmm maybe he's really changing but no",

I smiled and said what do you want me to do, if i do something is too much and if i don't then it's bad. I asked you the other day what do you want/expect from me and you said nothing, then what. She said i was mad.

I said i'm glad we had this conversation, now i knwo how you feel and i understand you, fell like she wants to see changes in me.

She said then the usual, i don't know what's going to happen, i feel like something got lost down the way, we drifted apart, i don't know if this can be fixed if we can make the fire burn again, if i can afford to let myself waste time again in case it doesn't work. That she hasn't seen or felt any changes in how she feels. I said it's only been a month. 

I told her i know we can make this work in the future, we have to keep on working on ourselves and believe we can be strong and thatw e could reconnect again because even though i knwo "you are not in love anymore" i know there's still something there and we can take it from there but we need time and patience and good communication. sjhe has doubts, douts it can work, but when i was talking to her she was paying full attention to me, and is aw in her eyes that she wanted to believe in all i was saying, but there's still hurt in her and feeling that i neglected her for a long time and that it won't be easy.

When she was negative saying that maybe it wouldn't work i told her, what do you want to do?, what do you want to do?, she wouldn't answer. i told her if you feel there's no chance then why waste our time. She wouldn't make a desition, she cried. And at the end said if she had to make a desition today it would be for us to part. I said o.k., let's do it, and she said "do we have to talk about this Today?" i said no. At the end she said that she wants me and her to be happy and that maybe it's not with each ther right now, but that maybe if we get divorced we could get back together later. I said, that's funny.

At the end i left and kissd her in the forehead twice and the kissed her with a lot of passion in the mouth and she closed her eyes and we connected, it was very warming.

The next day we texted and she said that i needed to the space and pacefullnes to work on myself i ask her not to close the door completly on us, and she said she hasn't.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Second part of the post.

Went to therapy last wednesday and told my therapist about my wife's words.

According to my therapist, my wife wants to see the man she felt in love with, wants to see changes in me and that's why she asked me with some angriness about things in the house and things i wasn't doing as "man of the house" and that i should try to reconnect with her and make her "fall in love with me again". I said that's not easy, it will take work and time and dignity not to go over overboard. She said ask her out to dinner, she will say no, but be persistent. I know we are not ther yet.

But that day when my wife and i talked she was very upbeat and talkative with me and ask me about my classes and very open. So i bought a rose and left it at the door of our apartment. Later that night she texted me "I got the rose", i said i'm glad, sleep well.

The last few days have been OK, we haven't talked about us, which i don't intend on doing, some days she has been really open and talaktive others not.

I been taking my son out and it's been good.

I won't cross the line with my actions but i also know that i just can't let time pass by without doing anything.

My sister told me a good analogy, she said.

Right now you both are riding an ambulance, she's the driver you're the paramedic, you have a critical patient which is your relationship. You can't go crazy and actwithout thinking, being impulsive because the patient would die, but wou can't also be a spectator because the patient will also die.
}
So i'm in the thin line between looking for a way to reconnect with her but without overdoing it and pushing her away.

I forgot to mentioned that id did change the light bulb and she texted me day day saying " i noticed you were at the apartment, thanks for the light bulb"


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

It-s been a little over a month since i left my apartment. Feels like three months. ome days go by and i wonder if a mde the right choice by leaving, tha maybe i should have stayed, but conditions at that point were not ideal, i hd lost my cool and so had my wife.

My son is having an operation on 11/11, getting his tonsils out. And this weekend here in our country is a long weekend, with november 3, 4 and 5 being holidays nd also monday 10. My wife's parents have a country house whr they go almot every weeknend and were i used o go to back when we were not separatd. Long story short my wife's taking my son from friday 10/31 to monday 11/10 so i won't be able to see him for ten days, she doesn't want to risk taking him to school and getting a cold before the operation, so. Shes comin bac on 11/5 until friday 11/7 bcaueshe has to work. And my on will sta at the farm with his grandparente.

Long story short i told her thta was too much for me, too many days without my son. She said the condition and situation with the holiday and our separation made everythig more cmplicated. i just told her i understand but that i still miss my son and wish ther could b someting that we could work out those days.

Later she textd m sayin that if i wanted i could go on tuesday 11/04 and spend the day at the farm so i could spendmoe time with my son. I said i'm cool with it if you're cool. And she said f i wasn't i wouldn't have offered it. I said o.k.

So at leas i will see my son a bit more during those ten days, but now i will have to play i cool duin my visit to my inlaws farm.

Who said this as going to be easy?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Rergret, I have unease reading your thread. On one hand, you freely admit, and provide clear examples of your compulsive and pointless lying. A relationship cannot be built on a foundation of mud. When was the very first time she discovered your compulsive lying? Has it gotten better or worse or stayed the same (in other words has she come to expect that of you already, or is this a recent betrayal of her trust?)

I really get the sense, from the description of your W's actions and words, that she is really checked out and is not freely admitting so. Your sister's metaphor concerns me, because your W maybe feeling like SHE is the in the paramedic's seat, not behind the wheel.

Typically, when people are unhappy but generally tolerant in a relationship, it is rare for them to suddenly tackle it head on, or even leave into the unknown - most prefer the devil they know. I wonder what happened back in September that triggered your W to utter the separation word? What was the straw that broke the camels back - it must relate to a single incident, can you pinpoint it? If not, then I really worried that there is am outside force in the marriage whose interests is not the best interests of all of you, I'm wondering if there is a greener pasture your W has her eyes set upon?

I don't want to scare you with this, but all too often if that were the case, a wayward spouse is often very effective at taking a few grains of truth and pinning all the blame back on the other spouse, and sometimes a passive H is all too willing to shoulder all the blame. I hate to be the one that pulls the infidelity card on this thread first, however it just does not sit right with me. It is good that both of you are seeing IC's but her suggesting you need space could be considered one of the many red flags. Fundamental dishonesty may certainly be a qualified dealbreaker, so either way a shakeup is probably an event that will be overall useful for you, I would just hate to see a potentially successful marriage fail for the wrong reasons.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Lon said:


> Rergret, I have unease reading your thread. On one hand, you freely admit, and provide clear examples of your compulsive and pointless lying. A relationship cannot be built on a foundation of mud. When was the very first time she discovered your compulsive lying? Has it gotten better or worse or stayed the same (in other words has she come to expect that of you already, or is this a recent betrayal of her trust?)
> 
> I really get the sense, from the description of your W's actions and words, that she is really checked out and is not freely admitting so. Your sister's metaphor concerns me, because your W maybe feeling like SHE is the in the paramedic's seat, not behind the wheel.
> 
> ...


Hey Lon,

Guess the first time she discovered my lying was when we first got married and i had ommited/not told her things that happend in my family and that she found out later. Other examples were Little things like telling say at was some place and her finding out i was at a neighbor having a couple of drinks. The lying has gotten better i guess lately, she still doesn't trust me, and i understand that perfectly.

I have thought about her checking out of the relationship already and some days i really think is this way, some other days not so much. If she has, maybe there's Little i can do right now, just work on myself and hope we we'll have a chance in the future. 

The metaphor from my sister might be accurate or not, her being the driver or paramedic really don0't know if it makes a difference. She's not doing anything right now for the relationship because she feels like she already did enough, she already gave me a chance and now, this is it. A relationshop hanging by a thread.

I hope her counselor is making her see that things have been both our fault. I told her last tuesday, yeah i was emotionally absent but so where you, i didn't do anything, but neither did you.

Things changed a lot after our son was born, a few months later we started to grow apart, and neither did anything.

You know what broke the camel's back?, i got drunk at my son's third bda party and she had to drive. After that and she told me, she changed her attitude and gave up. That's when i tried to save the marriage but it may have been too late. I've been going to AA since last week and most definetly have quit drinking.

About somebody else in the picture, i'm not 100% shure, but i've done my checking with everything and seems very, very unlikely. I though about an EA with a friend of hers from HS, but i've done a very detail cheking and nothing. I really don't think that's the issue that's driving this situation. If our marriage was done, over and it may be, and i really don't know, i guess somedoby else in the picture might be a possibility then.

She's not going to divorce me and then go with somebody else. She would lose a lot in the the divorce, plus her parents expectations of her would be dissapointed and a lot of other things.

If we were to finalize our marriage, most definetly we would have to sell the apt and Split it 50/50, financially it would mean a big set back for both of us, but more for her. She would most likely have to move back to her parents with my son. Not something i would like to happen, but if the worst happens i shure won't be left without a place to live. So selling our home would be the only choice, unless he can pay 273 of out mortgage, which she can't right now.

Very difficult situation for the both of us.

I really think and i told her this, that i believe our problems can be overtaken, but it will take a lot of time, effort and love. Right now as of today she's not willing to put all of that into the relationship.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Regretf said:


> Hey Lon,
> 
> Guess the first time she discovered my lying was when we first got married and i had ommited/not told her things that happend in my family and that she found out later. Other examples were Little things like telling say at was some place and her finding out i was at a neighbor having a couple of drinks. The lying has gotten better i guess lately, she still doesn't trust me, and i understand that perfectly.
> 
> ...


Since she has experienced your compulsive lying all along, the trust has never really had a chance to build up. As for the recent trigger - you getting drunk at your child's bday party, well that is a separate, but also important factor - it was another demonstration that you will not be the reliable partner she wants. But it doesn't seem like you've "dropped the ball here" (you've never really had the ball since before the marriage), you haven't been on a pedestal for a very long time.

As for her counsellor showing her the things in the relationship that are on her, well that is where I wonder what kind of person you are dealing with here. Based on your posts, you are clearly very introspective (even if you remain ineffectual as a partner to her) - but its clear she is not going to give an inch anymore - if she hasn't already accepted responsibility for her faults she certainly isn't going to begin now.

As to her vested interests in keeping the marriage intact, I seriously think you are far overestimating how attached she is to the idea of staying married, for financial,familial or any other reasons, particularly if she is onto the scent of a potentially better mate. If she is checked out, unwilling to consider her faults and not even trying to envision a life with you in it, and NOW has chosen to act on it, I believe it is time for you to 1) figure out exactly what that external factor is and 2) do the 180. Tell her you love her, and want her to have the best life she can, that you want to work on yourself and that if she needs the space she has it, then go cold on her, be active as a parent but be in business mode only - do not seek any form of intimacy, no dates, do not ask how her day was, simply be out of her life and do this for the both of you. If you beg, plead, come across in any way as needy she will turn her head with revulsion. If she wants you to be in it, it has to be all in for both of you.

And while you begin a 180 you need to make sure you are absolutely diligent that there is no OM that has caused her to not look back at overcoming the marriage problems - if you separate, tell her you are still married and expect no OM until the Divorce is set in stone.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Lon said:


> Since she has experienced your compulsive lying all along, the trust has never really had a chance to build up. As for the recent trigger - you getting drunk at your child's bday party, well that is a separate, but also important factor - it was another demonstration that you will not be the reliable partner she wants. But it doesn't seem like you've "dropped the ball here" (you've never really had the ball since before the marriage), you haven't been on a pedestal for a very long time.
> 
> As for her counsellor showing her the things in the relationship that are on her, well that is where I wonder what kind of person you are dealing with here. Based on your posts, you are clearly very introspective (even if you remain ineffectual as a partner to her) - but its clear she is not going to give an inch anymore - if she hasn't already accepted responsibility for her faults she certainly isn't going to begin now.
> 
> ...


I think when I started posting I became annoyed with posters who would insinuate the possibility of another man in my wife's life. There seemed to be no possible way. I listened to years of her saying she would never do this etc. At the end of the day all the posters were correct. 

In this case it seems odd a woman is breaking up a family over past lies. Let's face it most guys lie about silly things and get caught. Or getting too drunk at a birthday party. Or in my care not buying my wife a certain gym membership and yard lights. 

I would personally stop being at her beck and call to fix things. 

As for myself I refused to hug my ex when I saw her. I would not let her in my house. Ignored her texts for a week. And when I had to see her today she looked at me like the man she fell in love with. Sometimes they need to know what they are really losing and then will finally have some respect for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

You're 'getting' some of it. I can see that in your posts. You're clearly recognising some of your issues and the key moments that led to her deciding enough was enough. You're seeking help to look at and work out your issues. And it appears you are beginning to change the way you think.

However, (soz mate, gotta be done)
What jumped out at me:

Lunch:


> She said that she was cooking just about enough food for her and my son, and that if there wasn't any i was going to have to make my own. I looked at her kind of funny and said, "you know, this is still my house too"


A better answer could have been simply to say "agreed".

Google TV:
If you know it's broken, fix it. I think, given on what has been written, that she is looking for you to 'step up' more. The lightbulb is an example. You had noticed the bulb had gone, and told her. Perhaps it have have more appreciated if you had been able to say "hey that lightbulb had gone, so i changed it out" You noticed the google TV at lunchtime, but 'took a rest'. Not saying that was a bad thing to take a break, but as i said, perhaps being able to say what you did at lunchtime was "I saw that the google TV was broken...and i fixed it". Or even "i saw the google TV was broken, but was short on time. I'd like to pop by later and fix it" would be better received. (but that better be the truth!)

You're also pushing too hard, too soon, and reacting instead of just listening. Reread your posts below and see if you can spot when it happens. Some you already have, some you haven't. Sometimes they don't want anything except for you to listen. It's hard to do, and hard to learn when, but it's there. And knock it off with the flowers! 

She doesn't want to just be told that you are changing. She's going to have to SEE it. Visibly and more importantly, consistently, for quite a while. Stop telling her it's happening.

Your therapist seems to be on the right track. Your Wife isn't pissed off AT you, she's pissed off WITH you. There's a difference. She's afraid that you aren't able to be the man she wants you to be, and her fear will be shown as anger. You have to realize that. You can be the man she wants, but it's going to take time. 

And it's actually easier than you think. Because you don't have to try to be the man you think she wants you to be. You have to be the man YOU want to be. The one you're already working on. The one with honour, with pride, the one you already know you can be. 

She will see it. But not for a while. It takes a long time to change a mindset. And in her case, to trust, to believe and to open up.

Back off, concentrate on you, stop thinking about the marriage. You've got more important things to resolve first. 

To end on a positive note. I think, again from what you've written, that she hasn't given up. She is angry with you, and she has a right to be. BUT, she doesn't appear to hate you. And that's good. It seems (to me) that there's still something there. A spark. She seemed to open up and talk to you about her feelings, so she's not totally shut down yet. And she was willing to negotiate and reach a compromise over visitation while at the farm. And yes, play it cool. Agree with her before time that there will be no discussion about the past, or the future. Stick to the 'now', be a Dad, don't think about being the Son In Law, or Husband. 


Oh, and as far as the 'analogy' goes. You're not even a team yet. You've a lot of self discovery to go before you can be the 'paramedic', and equally she has a lot of work before she can be the 'driver'. Both of you need to save yourselves before you can save the 'patient'.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Regretf said:


> She's not going to divorce me and then go with somebody else. She would lose a lot in the the divorce, plus her parents expectations of her would be disappointed and a lot of other things.


This is WRONG thinking. Plenty of women have left, literally with just the shirt on their backs, because it got to the point that self preservation overcame any perceived obstacles or 'what people thought of them'.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that there are ANY barriers to prevent her walking, if push comes to shove.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Thank for your comments. One thing i learnd yesterday while visiting my son is that no matter what i do, she has inner struggles with her feelings and needs that i can-t do anything about, that she has to work on and resolve. Same as me, and like you said DayOne i have to work on myself righ no, no matter what or the outcome.

it is difficult, it is a every day struggle, sometimes i lose faith and hope, but i have to remind me tha me and my son are the most important things in my life ad that i have to becom a better for m and my little boy.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

You're getting it. Don't be afraid to post up your progress. We're here to support, and 2x4, you as needed. :smthumbup:


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> You're getting it. Don't be afraid to post up your progress. We're here to support, and 2x4, you as needed. :smthumbup:


Thanks DayOne. Thre are days when i think i-m going to crumble. Thinking abou my son and the possibility of growing up in a broken home tears my soul apart.

yesterday my dad fell and broke his head had to rush him the te hospital. My wife was concerned all along and called me many tmes and texted me to see abou his condition, nothing big.

She did day that she has struggles inernally with her feelings tha she has to resolv and thre-s nothing i cant do about it. I ask her what do you expect from me, he said nothing, from you or anybody right now, nothing, peopl are wha they are and period. She also said that we hae managed the separation differently and te way i was felling had to do with the old saying you don-t know what you got until it-s gone, which is true. I told her that i-m doing ok but it is very difficult not being to stay at home and try harder, she said, we are not in tht place right now.

I have to stop trying ways to engag with her and talk aout he same issus, its tiring for me and her.

Have to keep myself on my feet right now, not crumble.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Regretf said:


> i don't understand why you tell me this things about me not fixing this and i don't know if you want to provoke me.
> 
> I smiled, and said what do you want me to do, if i do something it's too much, and if i don't then it's bad. I asked you the other day what do you want/expect from me.
> 
> ...


You keep coming back to that in the last few posts. You've GOT to get over it. Trying to find out what she wants weakens you. Both in your mind, and even possibly in her eyes. She wants a man who knows what he wants. 

You have to fix you, she has to fix her. There's nothing either of you can do for each other, at least not at this early stage. The next time this comes up in conversation, simply (hah!) tell her that you are working hard on you. That your thoughts of her wellbeing are hindering this progress. That you have to stop thinking of her. Be clear that it does not lessen your regard for her, but until you are in a better place, she has to be put out of your mind. 

Saying it out loud reinforces your resolve, as you actually hear the words, and may quite possibly have her see you in a different light. ("ooh, he's taking a bit of charge here. I think i like it").

There may be 'shait test's' from her as a result of this declaration of independence, as she'll suddenly be afraid you're actually moving away, emotionally. But stay strong (she likes strong!).


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> You keep coming back to that in the last few posts. You've GOT to get over it. Trying to find out what she wants weakens you. Both in your mind, and even possibly in her eyes. She wants a man who knows what he wants.
> 
> You have to fix you, she has to fix her. There's nothing either of you can do for each other, at least not at this early stage. The next time this comes up in conversation, simply (hah!) tell her that you are working hard on you. That your thoughts of her wellbeing are hindering this progress. That you have to stop thinking of her. Be clear that it does not lessen your regard for her, but until you are in a better place, she has to be put out of your mind.
> 
> ...


Makes a lot of sense what you are sayin DayOne.

I will try with all of my mind to put her aside and concentrate in me< like you said at this point i have to work on m and she has to work on her.

She has to be put out of my mind. Sh has to be put out of my mind.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: I hurt my wife and now i'm facing the consequences*



DayOne said:


> You keep coming back to that in the last few posts. You've GOT to get over it. Trying to find out what she wants weakens you. Both in your mind, and even possibly in her eyes. She wants a man who knows what he wants.
> 
> You have to fix you, she has to fix her. There's nothing either of you can do for each other, at least not at this early stage. The next time this comes up in conversation, simply (hah!) tell her that you are working hard on you. That your thoughts of her wellbeing are hindering this progress. That you have to stop thinking of her. Be clear that it does not lessen your regard for her, but until you are in a better place, she has to be put out of your mind.
> 
> ...


This is a fantastic post.

Regret, pay particular attention to the first paragraph. You say she doesn't know what she wants. I would take it a step further because I believe you don't know what YOU want. 

You say you want her. Why? To avoid a broken home? That may be a reason for your children. How about you? Why do you want her? Why is wanting her, possibly at the expense of other things life can offer, so important? And most importantly, is the fact that you ARE willing to do so actually serving to drive her further away?

Beyond her, what else do you want from life?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> This is a fantastic post.
> 
> Regret, pay particular attention to the first paragraph. You say she doesn't know what she wants. I would take it a step further because I believe you don't know what YOU want.
> 
> ...


farside junky,

Your post got me thinking.

There are times where i-m not sure what i really want. I doubt myself and wonder if this is all worth it. If i was, we are emotionlly detched for a lon time and I didn-t do aything about it back then then mayb it means i didn't love her enough, maybe i knew deep down we werent meant for each other.

Then i remmber when we were datin, th fist two years o marriage and it was good, great, wonderful at times.

A lot of wha i-ve been going through has to do with remorse and regret, taking my wonderful wife for granted, taking my fmily, marriage, life fo granted, no bing happy for personal, internl reasons.

I want a lot out of life, i want to b hppy, my son to be hppy, be there for him evry step of the way, be the father for him that my father never was.

I want or i wish another shot with this woman that i love and that has so many characterstics that i love but as myself and everybody has flaws. I do believe we will get another shot, it will take time, but i do blieve it. Will it work?, i don-t know, i hope so. if not, then at leas i'll know that we gave it all and that wasn't meant to be.

Right now i'm full of regrets because i believe I and her to an extent haven't given it all, like we haven't reached out potential as a couple.

See we dated for a year and a half, and we go pregnant a year into the marriage, i belive we never finished glling as a couple n one our son was born we stopped being a couple and drifted apart.

I want to have passion in life, my job iS ok pays well i also teach and like it a lot. I want to deal with my inner demons once and for all and get rid o the baggage that's been handicapping me for years. I want to make peace with myself.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Mate, it's too soon to decide what you want. I'm in the same boat. THIS is what's important right now, stop worrying about her, stop thinking about might happen in the future. Stay in the now, work on you. Until you get your head straight, work on, identify and resolve your own issues, you can't effectively begin to see what it is you really need going forward. 

There will come a time when you'll know, but it's not now. Not today. Not next week or even next month. 

As I said before, it's important that you explain this to her. She will (OK, should) appreciate your honesty (remember, that's part of what drove her away), and (perhaps) even respect you for deciding that now is the time you've decided to make changes. Massive, altering changes. 

If you are true to yourself, and honestly commit to making those changes, your life will never be the same. 

She'll see it. She's knows the man you are, and she will see the man you'll become. 

But don't push it on her. Let it happen. But for you, not for her. You're fighting for your life, not your marriage. 

And, if you feel it's appropriate, explain a simplified version to your son. That Daddy is going to be a better Daddy. One that your son will be proud of. He11, even if he's too young to understand, you saying the words to him out loud, like i said before, will reinforce your own strength. And if you break down and cry while your explaining it to either of them, that's a good thing. It means you have actually accept it, you are feeling it. 

No one came promise what will happen. To you, to her, to your marriage. But your son, and his love for you, will never change.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> Mate, it's too soon to decide what you want. I'm in the same boat. THIS is what's important right now, stop worrying about her, stop thinking about might happen in the future. Stay in the now, work on you. Until you get your head straight, work on, identify and resolve your own issues, you can't effectively begin to see what it is you really need going forward.
> 
> There will come a time when you'll know, but it's not now. Not today. Not next week or even next month.
> 
> ...


Thanks DayOne.

I explinedto her yesterday what your ar saying, that i put myself in her shoes and understand what she's feeling and going/gone thru. And that i will keep working on myself thats what I need to do. She understood and agreed.

I have my work cut out for me and i have to focus on me and forget abouyt gtting bac togther, because this is no happening any time soon and i understand that. That we cannot work in a relationship which there is almost none righ now, before we work on ourselves, i understnd that perfectly.

Even if said i wasn-t goin to push her i have been. Kissing her in the forehead everytime i left, some days she was OK with it, others she was cold. yesterday i reached to do so and she pulld back and said "We ae not in that place right now" i have to respect that and cannot push her o expect affection from her at this point.

I will keep postin on the updates, mainly myself. Therapy tomorrow.

For my son i will continue bonding wit him and spening tim wit him, and making him shure that daddy loves him and will always be with him. he-s only 3 and does't understand very much what' goin on, only that daddy is leaving. Yestdday i was leaving and he wanted me o stay and keep on playin with him, i did for abit, then had to leave. I'd tell you, breaks my hart everytime i hav to leave the house.

Cheers.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Regretf said:


> some days she was OK with it, others she was cold. yesterday i reached to do so and she pulld back and said "We ae not in that place right now" i have to respect that and cannot push her o expect affection from her at this point.


And that, my friend, is exactly how its going to be. Some days will be good, some days will suck. Stay on track.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

It's hard knowing that something is not working, we didn't get married with the idea of separating, nobody does. It hurts to have come to this point and that we weren't able to fix our problems when we were together. Now it's up to me to fix me to be a better man, better father. 

I can't go back to my old self i have to keep on moving forward and change.

What is also difficult for me is that i'm out of my home, my life and that is hard to cope with. I'm staying at my brother and his wife's place, they've been really nice, but you know it's just not my home. I feel like somebody kicked the life out of me. i can't feel self pity i know, but now i have to find things to do, new hobbies, how to ocuppy my mind. 5 years of life have been practicaly gone, from one day to the other.

Looking back i don't know if i should have left my house, had i given my wife enough space without pressuring her into "fixing" things right away maybe i would not be out of the house right now. Maybe this separation had to happen and things would have not been fixed at leats myself if i had not left my house, so that's for the better.

Some days it's just so difficult for me to get a grasp of the situation and think this was blown out pf proportion, but the marriage wasn't working so who i'm a i kidding. This had to happen.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Well therapy went great yesterday, got my head messed up and she gave me homework to work on myself.

I'm also going to AA which is helping not only with the drinking problem but with dealing with changes and taking responsability with my actions.

Talk to my mom and sister yesterday and made a lot of confessions about things that i did wrong in the marriage. Well she's dissapointed in me with my lack of maturity and for the first time in all of this she defended my wife. I have to be aware that if my wife decides to Split at the end, big part of this will be my responsability and ther's nothing i can do. Don't mwant that but it is a possibility.

Went to pick up my son at my inlaws yesterday then drop him, then my wife came stright from therapy and was her usual 50% cold and distant which i get and there's nothing i can do right now, she's hurt, dissapointed and still angry to a point, specially coming from IC. I said nothing and just ask her how she was and then i left.

This morning i went to pick up my son and i texted her that i would wait for them in the garage instead of coming up to the apartment, when she came down with my son she looked at me, and i know that look, she was LOOKING at me. hard to explain with words but...so i was normal, didn't say anything to her, pick up my son and his backpack and she asked me if were where going to my mom's for breakfast before dropping him for school and she said yeah. Well she wasnt as cold as the day before, i know that she was puzzled by be not coming upstairs.

In the middle of breakfast at my mom i was browsing my What's up Reading messages and she was online and then she texted me "just tell me when you drop him at school" which she never does because i always text her AFTER i drop him, i don't know seem odd. I just replaid "yeah".

After i drop him i texted her to let her know and she was a bit more willing than other days, i don0't know, should not make much of her coldeness or opennes. So at the end i just tpold her "have a good one", she said "thanks, you too".

Have to keep myself busy and work on ME. But i can't just give up yet, i can't. Have to fight my intelligent battle for the woman i love. Key Word is intelligent, keep the distant and let her have the space but without being unavailable.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Lot of positives in there. You're seeing life in a new light and so are others around you. Mum giving you a bit of cr*p could be viewed as she feels able to open up and feel you'll accept it. She may not have done so before as she felt wasn't an option. That she felt you weren't ready. So treat it in a positive light.

Wife being upside down after therapy isn't a surprise. Think about how you often feel after your sessions and picture her in the same frame of mind. 

To me, at least, on the outside looking in, you seem to be doing well. I'm not going to remind you to stay on track, read too much into her, or let her distract you. You are off and running now. You know what to do.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Regretf said:


> Well therapy went great yesterday, got my head messed up and she gave me homework to work on myself.
> 
> I'm also going to AA which is helping not only with the drinking problem but with dealing with changes and taking responsability with my actions.
> 
> ...


Darlin' I am SO glad you finally got around to going to AA. The whole time I was reading this thread I was thinking, "He is chasing his tail around the watering hole and never finding the water." Your lying was to cover your addiction, your addiction was a result of your broken home in more ways that you understand at the moment. 

I believe AA is good, but your pot of gold may be found in ACOA. Welcome to Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc. You may need BOTH AA and ACOA. Your description of yourself is dead on accurate for an ACOA. So, you are finally headed in the right direction in recovery. I just implore you to pursue ACOA WITH your AA. Even if it is just to purchase the big red book. That emptiness you feel inside... yea.. that one.. that seems to plague your job, relationships with yourself, and others, self loathing, its all there ... in the big red book. And the support with ACOA in the meetings I think would help you. You don't have to lose your family. Your wife IS going to notice. Ask her if she would be willing to leave decision making on hold for six months. Here is why...

It gives you time to get some recovery under your belt. AND gives her time to settle down from her pain. When her pain subsides the likelihood of her regaining her emotions for you is high. When pain and anger are dominate it pushes out love feelings. Trust is HUGE. She is hurting because of the lies and unmet expectations, the anger is because she WANTS them out of the way because she WANTS YOU. But if that becomes impossible then she will WANT HERSELF to stop hurting and thus will keep you out. Get the lies and unmet expectations out of the way... her pain goes away and she gets what she wants.. you. BUT you don't do that by moving towards her. You get that by getting into the recovery you have chosen, doing the heavy lifting of recovery, keep your eyes on your own paper for a while, but treat her with kindness and respect, no pressure. 

I have been in pain and anger twice and have felt love feelings return both times... so I share that just to encourage you to focus on the right things, your recovery, kindness and respect to her, and to minimize tail chasing. Glad you are finally headed in the right direction. Now is the time to ask her if she will pause on any decisions and tell her that you are getting confirmation that you are headed in the right direction, but that you need just a bit more time to gain consistency and if she would consider being gracious with six months.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

And that, right there, is why Blossom Leigh is on my list of top 3 TAM'ers. 

Total gold. :smthumbup:


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Dawww... thanks


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Credit where it's due, hun. Credit where it's due.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Darlin' I am SO glad you finally got around to going to AA. The whole time I was reading this thread I was thinking, "He is chasing his tail around the watering hole and never finding the water." Your lying was to cover your addiction, your addiction was a result of your broken home in more ways that you understand at the moment.
> 
> I believe AA is good, but your pot of gold may be found in ACOA. Welcome to Adult Children of Alcoholics - World Service Organization, Inc. You may need BOTH AA and ACOA. Your description of yourself is dead on accurate for an ACOA. So, you are finally headed in the right direction in recovery. I just implore you to pursue ACOA WITH your AA. Even if it is just to purchase the big red book. That emptiness you feel inside... yea.. that one.. that seems to plague your job, relationships with yourself, and others, self loathing, its all there ... in the big red book. And the support with ACOA in the meetings I think would help you. You don't have to lose your family. Your wife IS going to notice. Ask her if she would be willing to leave decision making on hold for six months. Here is why...
> 
> ...


Thank you for your beautiful post Blossom Leigh. Very insightful and rewarding. God knows i want to change, be a better man and HEAL. I pray everyday for this and i believe like you said that i'm going in the right direction.

I have stopped chasing her and have givern her space to clear her thoughts/feelings but i have made it clear to her that i love her, respect her and support her desition to be alone right now and for both of us to work on ourselves.

I have told her that i'm there for her and that i will fight for her and that i still believe that we can make it back SOMEDAY.

She has not made any desition regarthless R or D. She still undecided and still weighting in her love for me and the consequences of the outcome. I will not ask her to pause on her desitions because she hasn't made any yet...

Thanks for your optimism and hope.

There are no ACOA groups or meetings in my country but i will get the Big Red Book. And continue AA as well as my personal therapy.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Yesterday was great i was upbeat and positive, today not so much.

Here in my country the next days are holidays, we don't have to work monday through wednesday. As you know my wife is going with my son and inlaws to the countryside to the farm they have there, something i used to do for 5 years. This is the first time in 6 years that i won't be with my wife for this time. Today it's eating me up. Making me miss her more and being apart from my son until tuesday is also hard.

Today i will pick him up at my inlaws and take him to my mom's, we are celetrating her bday today since on wednesday whem her real bday is my son won't be here.

Some days are better that others, today has been a ****ty day. Used to doing almost everything with my wife and son and now having all this time is difficult. I will be spending time at my dad's this weekend since he had some surgery and could use each other's company. I will also be attending AA these days as it is a great oportunity.

I know i can't give up but there are days like this were i wish i'd be over with and could move on. Being separated with hope of reuniting one day i can't move on yet. Hope could be a &%tch. But this is what i believe in even though these days make me feel even more separated to the point of feeling divorced and that saddens me.

Tomorrow will be another day.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Have totally been in your shoes in ways you can even imagine right now. For 40 years I was a big part of family celebrations but when my mother and I split, I was thrown into grieving not only the loss of her, but the rest of the family. I have missed our family parties where everyone was present for five years. Every holiday I grieve it. So I understand...


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Have totally been in your shoes in ways you can even imagine right now. For 40 years I was a big part of family celebrations but when my mother and I split, I was thrown into grieving not only the loss of her, but the rest of the family. I have missed our family parties where everyone was present for five years. Every holiday I grieve it. So I understand...


Thanks BL. These long weekend should be a chance for me to spend more time at my AA meetings and that should help.

We are separated but feel so distant from her, its only been 5 weeks, eeryday is a struggle.

We talked last night and i explainedt her the importance of having comunication in the separation, every once in a whil jus to see how we are and where are we heading, she said let-s talk on thursday when she comes bc but outside the house, i said OK, let-s go for a cup of coffe or dinner.

We'll see.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Read Day One's thread about dinner/coffee and you'll get ideas about how to navigate it well.

The actual coffee meeting is post #259 on thread called Day One.

But there are several pages leading to that post that have good info.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Just coffee. Less pressure, easier escape options if it goes south. 

Listen, accept, don't judge, don't fight her. You may not agree with what she says or what she says she's feeling. But for now, suck it up. She has a lot to get out, roll with it. If it's allowed to escape, what follows is the real stuff. 

And from your side, it's all "I'm feeling this", "I'm feeling that", NOT "you did this", "you did that". You're not the bad guy, she knows you're not the bad guy. But there's a lot of tension between you. Right now, it's on you, but later, when things calm down, you can both better address mutual, and her, issues.

Don't be overcheerful, and acting like it's all good. She's a smart woman (she chose you, back in the day, so she must be!), she'll see through it. 

Don't try and be something, someone else. You're not, not yet.

And DON'T push the agenda. It's going to take time. More time than a Starbucks Grande. Equally, don't go in WITH an agenda. "We must talk about this. And this. And that". Have a plan, but be prepared to be flexible.

DO, just talk TO her. Openly, honestly. She will see it, and feel it. Eye contact is important, BUT only if you're being 100% honest. She knows when your BS meter reads full, and she'll see it in your eyes.

Set yourself a time limit. Say an hour. If the conversation is winding down, wrap it up, leave. If you keep going after what needs to be discussed, is discussed, that's when the fluff filler gets added. Typically stuff that can ruin what was a good meeting. But again, be flexible. If you look up and realize you've both been talking so long, the staff are stacking chairs around you, and waiting to go home, well yay you! 

And finally, GOOD LUCK! :smthumbup:


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Read Day One's thread about dinner/coffee and you'll get ideas about how to navigate it well.
> 
> The actual coffee meeting is post #259 on thread called Day One.
> 
> But there are several pages leading to that post that have good info.


*Disclaimer: I'm not Dr Phil.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> Just coffee. Less pressure, easier escape options if it goes south.
> 
> Listen, accept, don't judge, don't fight her. You may not agree with what she says or what she says she's feeling. But for now, suck it up. She has a lot to get out, roll with it. If it's allowed to escape, what follows is the real stuff.
> 
> ...


Thanks once again DayOne, im calmer now. Will follow it thru and try with all my strenght to remain focused and positive.

Cheers


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

DayOne said:


> *Disclaimer: I'm not Dr Phil.


Hehe. Why do you think she insisted on having the talk outside the house? less pressure?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Regretf said:


> Hehe. Why do you think she insisted on having the talk outside the house? less pressure?


Yes. She is still in self protect mode.

Creating emotional safety is key. 

Its built with honesty, respecting her space, not pressuring her, compassion/empathy for her pain regardless of who put it there. Patience and great lustening goes a long way.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yes. She is still in self protect mode.
> 
> Creating emotional safety is key.
> 
> Its built with honesty, respecting her space, not pressuring her, compassion/empathy for her pain regardless of who put it there. Patience and great lustening goes a long way.


OK BS thanks, i get it.

IN your experience her going to IC gives any indication of her wanting to work on her side of the issues? we can't work on the relashionsip, which is on sleepy mode right now until we work on ourselves first.

Patience is the name of the game, months or a some years of problems cant be solved in a couple of months i get it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: I hurt my wife and now i'm facing the consequences*



DayOne said:


> *Disclaimer: I'm not Dr Phil.


But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...


Actually, i was going to go with "but i play one on TV".


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...


:rofl:


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

So today i went to see my son at my inlaws farm. Everything great with him. Got to spend several hours playing and hanging out. My wife was her usual cold and distant in these situations. I felt akward since we used to come to to the farm all the time and this has been the first time i have come since the separation. As expected.

At one point i saw a bundle of papers in her purse (i know, i know, should go through personal stuff but i want to know where i stand) i saw the list of my sons yearly expenses which i saw two weeks ago plus she added the mortgage of the apartment, the maintanence fee plus fumigation. There weere also bills of grocery items that she has bought for him plus doctor appointment recepits plus her own individual IC receipts. So my head goes south since this means she's seriously thinking the divorce option, right?, well i have done the same thing, list of expenses plus save all the receipts i have paid for my son. Have to cover my A%$. Maybe does she.

At one point i ask her how she's doing, she says fine.

I tell her , wanna know something funny?, my cholesterol and tryglicerids lab came out really low, so, thats a good thing. She sayd, well theres something positive, THIS (the separation) did you good. I said well, it also means that little to none alcohol makes every level go down. She asked me about my university classes.

So i'm ready o leave, say goodbye toeverybody. I tell my mother in law that i'm leaving with a knot in my throath because of my son, she just looks down and makes a gesture like "yeah its hard" or "this is tough" i dont know.

Grandmother tells me that we should talk about it, do something. me and my wife and that she's praying everyday for us to get back together, specially because of my son.

The aunt tells me that she hasn´t heard anything and that my wife is very closed mouth and that i should keep thet faith and make her fall in love again. yeah that's going to be easy i say. Eve
rybody is kind of gloomy because of the situation. Expected.

I felt like a ghost there.

Y say bye to my son with a giant knot in my throath and bye to my wife. She said to call when i get home. its a two hour drive.

So i leave and cry in the car for minutes, i felt like this was it, there was no love left in my wife for me and that this is it, at least what she showed today.

Two hours down the road (lots of traffica) she calls to tell me how am i and where on the road i'm in, i tell her that there are a lot of cars and still about an hour from town, she said that she called because our son fell asleep and there was no way of me talking to him before bed because he was al ready asleep and that if he got up she will call me. The tells me to call when i get to town.

I do call when i get to town, she asks me how was it i said, well lots of traffic. I ask her if we are still good for thursday( we talked about talking some on thursday outside the house), she says that she has a funeral to go on friday and patientes to see so she will let me know how we can do it, that we still are going to be in contact these days i say ok.


Whe i get to town she calls me to tell me my son was up, she asks me if a iwas a asleep i tell her no, i'm at the metting (AA) she knows, and she says do you still want to talk to him?, i said YESSS, i say goodnight to my boy and then she says i don't know what days are your meetings, i said, everyday if i can make it, it depends when i can go. The i tell her goodnight and that she looked good today (she says thanks, but i could feel her voice taking and liking he compliment, not a forced thanks).

I noticed she's mostly a stone cold distant tree when we are face to face but over the phone she's usually very nice and asking me things, and the tone of her voice is kind of sweet, like it used to be before, but not quite.

Haaa, so there you go, that was my day. Bittersweet. 

At one poing in the three hour drive i cried again but for my boy, i really wish we could work it out, i don't want him to grow in the homes and i really wished he will not blame us in thee future if we split, or feel like i abandoned him.

IF WE SPLIT, When he grows and asks, why did you and dad split?, whats my wife going to say?, because we drifted apart?, because your dad used to lie and wasnt honest?, because of his drinking?, because ive had enough?. Didnt he tried to change mom?, wasn't he willing to give it all?, didn't you try to work it out?.

I should not be asking these questions myself. And like they tell you at AA, "One day at a time"

We are both still waiting our rings six weeks into the separation. For whatever that means.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I wish I could tell you it will get better. You are still so focused on her, brother.

Focusing on yourself is best no matter the outcome.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> I wish I could tell you it will get better. You are still so focused on her, brother.
> 
> Focusing on yourself is best no matter the outcome.


This. 

I thought i was bad, but oh mate! 

You've got to let go. Until you do, you won't find traction.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I agree with day1. Number focus should be on you. Also you got to learn to detach. You can't put that much pressure on your wife. It shows lack of strength and character. I couldn't stand it if someone, especially an adult has to rely on me that much to be whole. Even if you end up divorce, doesn't mean life can't get better. Develop the tools you'lll need to succeed with or without her. If she wants the divorce, give it to her. She deserves to move on and live her own life too.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I agree with day1. Number focus should be on you. Also you got to learn to detach. You can't put that much pressure on your wife. It shows lack of strength and character. I couldn't stand it if someone, especially an adult has to rely on me that much to be whole. Even if you end up divorce, doesn't mean life can't get better. Develop the tools you'll need to succeed with or without her. If she wants the divorce, give it to her. She deserves to move on and live her own life too.


And this.

RegretF, you HAVE to change. Or you'll... regret.. it for the rest of your life.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

HI,

YES im trying, working on myself, going to therapy, AA, reading. But yes i need to detach, is not easy, but i have to find a way. Work on myself and improve my self for me and my Son.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Proud of your commitment to AA. :smthumbup:


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Proud of your commitment to AA. :smthumbup:


Its been great. I've been to 4 meetings now. It's helping me understand a lot about myself and my emotional and spiritual void filled by alcohol.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Almost 4 months since i posted on my own thread. Things have changed a lot.

I started to dectach since she adked me for a D back in late november. Painful as it was/is i had no choice. I tried everything, and i mean everything to make her change her mind with no results whatsoever.

Important things that happend in these last 4 months:

Late november i tracked her phone records and behold my suspicion was true. She was having conversations with her "friend" back in september and early oct. These conversations escalated once i made the dumb mistake or leaving my house. Confronted her, she was puzzled as how i knew his number and said "oh, some calls don't mean anything", months later she gave me another excuse of why she was calling him a lot, excuse. She had an EA and she won't admit it. For some reason she stopped calling him early october, i'm shure they texted after that because i knoe his #, but even texting stopped by late november.

While we had a cordial relationship throughout the separation things have taken a turn for worse in the last month and a half.

She decided she wanted the divorce because she wasn't happy and she didn't see herself with me happy in the future, she knows me and that is not what she wants, i'm shure having a taste of POSOM had something to do, she started to compare, anyway y stopped trying to reason with her because she threw the dumbest excuses like : Oh but i know you and i know you like to come home and sit down and listen to music, you would't tell me one day, let's go hiking", haha, i was like, since when did you like going hiking, and there's so much we could do, but she wasn't interested.

She rewrote history a lot, digging things from my past to throw at me, she at one point said that my credibility was down to 0 because of my past of Little White lies (compulsive lying that i have managed to control and sto thanks to IC), i reminded her that her credibility with me thanks to POSOM was 0, she still denyies having any EA or PA with him or anyone.

She started to question my ability as a father, my responsability, wouldn't let me take my son to his godmother's pool, because she didn0't trust me, BS. I have never, ever compromised my son's saftety or well being, after i put my foot down she started to back down.

The original plan wiith the house was that i would give her the mortgage so she will continue paying it and she will buy me out. My take is $54K and offer to lower that down to 35K, she can't pay me or won't pay me, she' doesn't have the money and offer me 15K i said, there'sno way that i will accept that-. She said "why don't you ask your dad for the rest of the money", imagine her nerve, and she wanted me to take monye out of my savings to complete the downpayment for my apartment. NO frigging way. This woman wants to have her own cake and eat it too.

Then child support. She wanted something like $800 for a three year old boy, no frigging way, all this time, the first two months i was out of our condo i still paid for almost everything but the food and my son's medical insurance and her "things of course", then i told her to start paying electricity, maintenance bill i would still pay the apartment, my son's school and half of his things (food, clothes, medicne, doctor's apointments). The last three months i have been paying over $700 counting the condo where she lives wih my son, i cannot continue like this. We got to lower CS to 650, but still too much, i redid the numbers and drop it to $521. At the end i offer her $450 for a three and a half year old boy, which i think is even more that it should be, i didn't care, it's my sons.

LOng story short my lawyer adviced me to give voluntary child support and we did the lagal procedure to offer $350 to the judge, which will pe probably upped to $400 or maybe to $450 that i offered. My wife? pissed, called me everyname in the book. I took the high road.

She's pissed because i won't let her vahe the apartmento for 15K, so she offered for me to buy her out, i did my math and it would leave me wounded financially but it could be done, she hasn't said anyhting. So we put the apartment for sale, heartbreaking for me, 'am sure that it is for her, but it seems like the only logical solution right now.

She's fighting me for stupid things, yesterday i went to dinner with my dad and too my son, after 10 days of not seeing him, he was in the countryside wtih my wife's family. We had agreed on taking him back at 7, so at 7_02 she starts texting me to know what happend?, i tell her, we are leaving the restaurant and on our way. 7:20 she texts me again to know what has happend, that we had agreed to take him back at 6:45 that it's been al most an hour and that i haven't had the nerve to even call her. Two minutes later we arrived i don't say anything, say goodnight to my son and leave.,

I tell you i still love her and love my son with all my heart, i really wished my family didn't have to break like this, but the slefishness in her don't let her see the hard times her actions and choices are going to put us thru. I'm done trying to reason with her as i have to continue growing myself and improving myself for me and my son.

All i will fight for now is for my son and i will not step back into having a great and fullfilling father_son relationship with him because of her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

First of all, it's a little hypocritical of you to talk about her credibly given your history of compulsive lying and drinking. And I realize that it's conventional wisdom here on tam than if a woman cheats nothing else matters, but the fact is that long before this guy you broke your marriage. That's on you. 

At this point think long and hard about whether you want a fight with her; your marriage is over but you have a son you have to coparent. Who she talks to isn't your concern and really hasn't been since you separated unless you agreed to no other people. Get a fair settlement but remember you have to deal with her so think long and hard about what you want fight over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> First of all, it's a little hypocritical of you to talk about her credibly given your history of compulsive lying and drinking. And I realize that it's conventional wisdom here on tam than if a woman cheats nothing else matters, but the fact is that long before this guy you broke your marriage. That's on you.
> 
> At this point think long and hard about whether you want a fight with her; your marriage is over but you have a son you have to coparent. Who she talks to isn't your concern and really hasn't been since you separated unless you agreed to no other people. Get a fair settlement but remember you have to deal with her so think long and hard about what you want fight over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is true lifeistooshort. I own my mistakes in my marriage and i have never denied them. I worked and still work hard on myself to overcome them, not making any excuses, i did this to myself and to our marriage, but so did she, she won't aknowledge her part on this though.

About the friend, i really don't believe anything happed between them, i think he was a big emotional support on her and that she started to have feelings for this guy and since the respect and trust she had for me was lost, she found an "escape". And yes, my marriage was over before this guy appeared but she made no effort, none whatsoever to at least try to sabe our M or fight for it. How could she reconnected with me when she was emotionally invested in somebody else.

Am not excusing my drinking which got worse as our M got worse, she told me a few times to control it and i tried, but sometimes i couldn't and i would pass out and go to sleep, she got tired of that, i get that. I see examples of many couples here where the OS gets help for the S fighting an addiction or at least tells that person you either get help or 'am out. My W never did that, never. I am an adult and i am responsable for my actions, i didn't know how bad i was until i started IC and started going to AA. i can honestly say that 5 months later i am in a much better place right now.

The compulsive lying has stop (goes back to chilhood issues and wanting to paint a better picture), the drinking is in control so far. Can i slip back into it?, shure, but at least i know of my weakness now. it did hurt my M for shure as did other things and i understand she got to a breaking point and couldn't go further after only 5 years (people's tolerance is different in each one of us), but darn Lifeistooshort. I never got another chance. did i deserve another chance?, maybe not. But for our son, he's an innocent three year old boy, at leats for him, we could have at least tried, if it didn't work out, then yeah, at least we knew we gave it all, but nope. She asked me out of our house for "time", "space" "figure out her feelings" and long and behold, 5 months ago i should have known that once i was out of there i would have never return back.

Conflict avoidance got us to this point unfourtunately. You don't know what i will give to turn back time, but i can't. Learn from it and move on.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I also forgot. i don't want to fight with her, really. I'm tired and like you said we have a son, i don't want anything more that the usual, two days a week, every other weekend. At first she didn't wanted me to see him during the week and didn't wanted him to sleep with me during my weekends since i don have my own place (thank you very much), my lawyer had to fight for my rights as a father, and slowly we are seeing the light.

I have never ever denied my son one dollar, anything that my W has asked me for him i have paid, sometimes even without seeing the receipts.

Unfourtunately the condo will have to go, i wish it wasn't like this but there seems to be no way out of this.

it might be hypocritical of me to call her a liar because of my past, but that doesn't excuse her of making stories up and lying about her extra income, lying about my ability and responsability as a parent, lying about R with her "friend", she even lied to her lawyer about some facts.

I do have to coparent but she's making it very difficult. According to her, her therapist told her that when i bring my son back to the apartment i should hang around too long after because it's going to confuse him, so i leave him and then i have to go. She took her rings off before christmas because her "therapist" told her that it might confuse my son, a three year old boy, come on, what does he knows about rings?. at least be honest with me.

I do want to have a good coparenting relationship with this woman, but we both need to grow up and leave the resentment behind, very hard and difficult.

I resent her because i will miss out so much of my son's life, OUR fault, but her choice.

She resents me well, because i have stopped being a doormat and stood up for what's fair.

But yes, it's got to stop.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Why can't you have your son more?

Concentrate on following through on AA.

Don't blame your ex anymore.

Although chances of you getting back together are very small, you shouldn't look at the end of your marriage as the end of a positive relationship.

What sports do you like? Can you get your son into one of them? Does he know how to swim? Take him camping.

Your wife didn't leave you for another man. 

Two days every fortnight is not enough for your son. He needs you a lot more.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

"I hurt my wife and now I'm facing the consequences" is exactly what every wife wants her husband to say. At least, I wish my husband would say it to me.  We can dream, right?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Why can't you have your son more?
> 
> Concentrate on following through on AA.
> 
> ...


It pains me to miss out so much of my son's life because of the divorce.

The standard here in mu country is that, two days a week and every other weekend. We Split long weekends and Christmas and such.

My son is the one thing my wife still has control over, and wants to control me thru it, of course i don't let her. I still pick him up everyday to take him to daycare (convinient for my wife so she won't be late for work).

I will continue fighting for more time with him, it shouldn't be like that. I know of a lot of cases where the H divorces and goes on to living the single life and spends Little time with his kids. That is not me. i'm interested in dating for a long time. I want to strengthen the bond with him. I'm staying with my brother and She's making it very hard with excuses like "he won't sleep with you in your brother's house because they throw parties", My brother is married and they do have get togethers sometimes (not what i would call parties), He won't sleep with me in my dad's condo because he lives on a 36th flood and she doesn't trust the Windows. Finally she said if there are no other choice he can sleep with you at your mom's, even though i dont trust her condition, she said. My mom had anxiety issues last year after her husband died of a heart attack, she's a lot better.

In the initial agreement she said that my son wasn't allowed to spend the night with me until i had my own place, shyt, who knows when that is going to be, so my lawyer told her, no, that's not negotiable and he will spend time with me and spend the night progressively, that i believe is the best for him.

Almost 0 chances of a R, i would give everything and anything to have my family back but it is not up to me, she's doesn't see herself happy with me so there's nothing i can do about that.

Positive relationship?, we would both have to do our part into that. i'm willing.

I like soccer and where were suppose to enroll him in soccer but with the separation and D it's been complicated, i will definetely get him into that or karate by next summer. She wanted to get him into swimming for thise summer (it's summer until may here in Panama) but all slots were full, we will get into that later. Another consequence of OUR actions that we didn't think.

Camping? i would love that, overprotective mother wouldn't allow it, see where 'am getting at.

I know she didn't leave me for another man and like i said 'am pretty positive nothing physical went on, but while we were suppose to be working on the M and i was suppose to make all the changes neccesary(it was all me, she had no fault according to her back then), she was talking behind my back to her divorced friend, as soon as she left the house she would call him and then she told me some excuse about some friend of his in the hospital. Guess what, when i left the house the calls at 6 in the morning stopped, but she would call him in the afternoons and at night. Day i left?, she called him. Day we talked about getting back?, she called him. And boom, all of a sudden she stopped calling him. This was not the cause of our failure i know that, but it didn't help either. Yes i neglected her, but so did she, and i didn't turn to any female divorced recently aquainted friend, but well, that's all in the past now.

He needs me more and so do i. Selfish W wants to control me on that, doesn't see the damage she's doing to our son. He's becoming super attached to her, he sleeps in her bed and doens't realice he needs the guidance and role model of a father figure, she'll come around i will not bargain my R with my son.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> "I hurt my wife and now I'm facing the consequences" is exactly what every wife wants her husband to say. At least, I wish my husband would say it to me.  We can dream, right?


I did that many times to my W, i recognized my mistakes, my shortcomings, my errors, but she would have none of it. I'm no saint, no hero, but i was willing to move heaven and earth for them. You know, i went to MC as she suggested, she stopped after two sessions saying she wanted us to concéntrate in our IC, i did that. She wanted me to change, i put all my weight into changing and it wasn't enough. it was all on her and finding her "feelings", in IC she discovered that she didn't love me and that she couldn't go back to loving me like she did at the beginning because "things happend", so...

I tried and tried but it was too late. She wasn't interested so i stopped trying, even after she said she wanted a D, i kept on trying and showing my weight with actions, it wasn't enough. My W is a very proud person and unflexible, once she has made a desition, that's that.

I see people here all the time giving their SO chances to change to prove them wrong and that's with much more difficult situations and even then with the SO unwillingness to change. My W?, nope, you are done, i gave you too many chances.
Conflict avoidance got us here, her not being very clear in her discomfort and me not being attentive enough to know what was happening and that she was unhappy.


Everyone's tolerance level is not the same, my W's is very low.

One thing i have learned in this 5 months is that no one is reponsible of your happiness but you. My W's expectations of me and the M were very, very high and i dissapointed her, and therefore she wasn't happy, not in a 15, 20, 25 year M, but in a 4 1/2 year M.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Regretf said:


> I did that many times to my W, i recognized my mistakes, my shortcomings, my errors, but she would have none of it. I'm no saint, no hero, but i was willing to move heaven and earth for them. You know, i went to MC as she suggested, she stopped after two sessions saying she wanted us to concéntrate in our IC, i did that. She wanted me to change, i put all my weight into changing and it wasn't enough. it was all on her and finding her "feelings", in IC she discovered that she didn't love me and that she couldn't go back to loving me like she did at the beginning because "things happend", so...
> 
> I tried and tried but it was too late. She wasn't interested so i stopped trying, even after she said she wanted a D, i kept on trying and showing my weight with actions, it wasn't enough. My W is a very proud person and unflexible, once she has made a desition, that's that.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear about your plight.
If you have tried to prove to her with your actions (not words) that you are changing and have put 100% in to reconciling/working on your marriage, then you should hold your head high knowing you tried everything to make it work. You did your part. But it takes 2 people to make a marriage, and she is done - that is a painful thing to accept. You can't control her actions, only your own.

My husband only gave me empty promises after we separated, "I will do this, I will do that", but when I asked him "when? where? how?" He had no answers. That was pretty much how our marriage of 3 years was. And because I see he's done soooooooo little, I am on the brink of calling a lawyer and finally divorcing him. In my wildest dreams, he does what you did - admits that he was wrong, that he's facing consequences of hurting me, and he does (DOES, not says, but DOES) things to make me trust him again. Again...hold your head high knowing you tried to save your marriage.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your plight.
> If you have tried to prove to her with your actions (not words) that you are changing and have put 100% in to reconciling/working on your marriage, then you should hold your head high knowing you tried everything to make it work. You did your part. But it takes 2 people to make a marriage, and she is done - that is a painful thing to accept. You can't control her actions, only your own.
> 
> My husband only gave me empty promises after we separated, "I will do this, I will do that", but when I asked him "when? where? how?" He had no answers. That was pretty much how our marriage of 3 years was. And because I see he's done soooooooo little, I am on the brink of calling a lawyer and finally divorcing him. In my wildest dreams, he does what you did - admits that he was wrong, that he's facing consequences of hurting me, and he does (DOES, not says, but DOES) things to make me trust him again. Again...hold your head high knowing you tried to save your marriage.


Thanks for the words. I know i did everything in my power, too Little too late, but i tried i really did.

One day when my son is older and asks what happend i will tell him the truth (my truth) i'm shure his mother will tell him the truth (her truth) but i will be able to look at him in the eyes and said "i really tried" "i didn't wanted to end the marriage to your mom, but she was done and it takes two to make it work".


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lila said:


> I agree with recent posts by LongWalk, Orange_Pekoe, and Lifestoshort that you should do what you can to keep the divorce as amicable as possible.
> 
> A highly contentious divorce will only benefit the lawyers and hurt your 3 year old. I'm not suggesting you roll-over and be a doormat, but I do think you need to avoid arguing with her when she does or says something that you don't appreciate. For example, the child support situation. Instead of arguing with her on the amount why not find out what the law dictates with regards to C.S. and go from there. Regardless of how she feels about it, she's only entitled to what the law says she's entitled to, right? No sense in getting yourself all worked up over something that is pretty much set by the law.
> 
> ...



This. My ex an i had quite a nasty divorce and there were many times I had to look forward, knowing that we'd be coparenting a long time with 2 and 5 year old boys. 

It took 5 or 6 years but we get along pretty well now and nobody moans if the kids are late, and we both do each other the courtesy of letting the other know. You guys can get there, just don't let anger sabotage things so that it takes longer. Your kids will suffer and so will you having to deal with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> I agree with recent posts by LongWalk, Orange_Pekoe, and Lifestoshort that you should do what you can to keep the divorce as amicable as possible.
> 
> A highly contentious divorce will only benefit the lawyers and hurt your 3 year old. I'm not suggesting you roll-over and be a doormat, but I do think you need to avoid arguing with her when she does or says something that you don't appreciate. For example, the child support situation. Instead of arguing with her on the amount why not find out what the law dictates with regards to C.S. and go from there. Regardless of how she feels about it, she's only entitled to what the law says she's entitled to, right? No sense in getting yourself all worked up over something that is pretty much set by the law.
> 
> ...


Hi Lila, thanks for your comments. You have the same name as my W's grandmother, lovely lady.

I'm trying to keep D amicable, but i will not ba taken advantage of. That's why my lawyer suggested taking the CS to the judge, my wife will present her receipts and case and i will mine. There's no way that a three year old spends $274 a month on just food, come on! and our country is much cheaper tan the US.

On the lateness, we had agreed the previous day that i would delive him at 7 PM as the latest, as long as he was fed, we agreed on that. My dad lives about 15 miles from my W. At 7:02 she texted me "What's going on?", meaning why aren't you here. I said "we are on our way. Our son has the phone" he was playing games with it, at 7:20 she texts me again saying that i should have delivered him at 6:45 that i'm almost an hour late and that i should have called. I said we are there in two minutes. O we arrived at 7:22, 22 minutes later tan pacted. I did texted her that we were on our way. This is the first time in 5 months that we have been one minute late.

I picked him up at 4:45, 10 days after not seeing him, 10 days were i did not complain. You would think she cut me some slack for being 22 minutes late. When i dropped him i didn't say anything or engage with her. But not to worry i won't be a minute late anymore, i won't give her any excuse to complain.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Your W has been unhappy, long before your DDay and I can

almost be certain, before she ever met you. She is blaming you

for everything that is wrong. If you listen and observe close

enough, you will realize she blames you for things which occurred

even before you and her met. That is called blame shifting and gluing

her arse to the victim chair. Go 180 and NC except concerning child.

Work on YOU and YOUR issues. She has to work on hers herself

DO NOT try to be Mr. Fixer.... Dude.... own your POS tendencies

and correct them.... not for the W but for YOU


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Your W has been unhappy, long before your DDay and I can
> 
> almost be certain, before she ever met you. She is blaming you
> 
> ...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You need to fix yourself for YOU.... you will be more attractive for future women

it is for you, not the wife. As you improve yourself, she will notice...

and IF she piques a renewed interest... cool but you have to be past everything 

which occurred in the past to even have a chance. You can not make a true 

concise decision about a possible R unless you have moved forward.

About the lies.... were most like "honey did you take out the garbage" and you

say yes and realize you did not and you sneak out and do it?

Quite different from "honey where were you today" you say your dad's but

you were at a sleazy strip bar. But here is the fact.... you should not have 

to feel like you should make little white lies to please her. You are not Jesus,

you make mistakes. My ex gf made the mistake of putting me up on a pedestal 

and thought I was perfect. Guess what...... I am far from perfect. But I own 

my own fvck ups. That's all a part of being a man.... owning it.

Your W may never get past her own issues..... but that can not be your problem.

I still have feelings for my last g/f but if she has not fixed herself, I have no

desire to be around her. I was married 15 years so I can relate to the pain.

But once I stepped into the light, everything fell in place.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> You need to fix yourself for YOU.... you will be more attractive for future women
> 
> it is for you, not the wife. As you improve yourself, she will notice...
> 
> ...


Yeah, my lies were white lies like the garbage thing.

she has always said that i tricked her, that i sold myself very well during the courtship, but that i was somebody else. She put qualities imto me.

BEFORE we met she had a 9 year R with aboyfriend that wouldnt marry her and then she met me and i always thought she felt like i was her knight in shining armor that saved her from endimg alone, hence she put me in a pedestal.

why do you say she has been unhappy about herself before meeting me and that she's blame shifting?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I got thinking last night in your post Chuck71. Many things and Little things over these past 5 months that make me wonder in what your are saying.

Our M had ups and downs and we were in a rut, routine, we were emotionally distanced for maybe a year, year and a half, neither did anything, but to me it seems like such a short time to take a desition like she did, without thinking the consequences.

When we talked about a posible R last year i said, "Let´s give it a try, let me try to make you fall in love with me again, like in the beginning", she would have none of it and say "But i know you and i know i won't be happy with you" and other time she said "I know how you are and you are not what i need or what i'm looking for in a person", mind you these after 5 years of M. This is the same woman that when we had our 2nd wedding anniversary gave me a postcard saying "Every day i thank God that i have the best husband, friend and man with me, the perfect husband". This woman told me when i was trying to reason with her back in november, "yeah if we did get back together what will we do?" i said, many things, many different things, things about us that we forgot and things we haven't done yet, you know what she said?, "The problem _______(my name) is that i know you, and you like to come home and sit down and listen to music, you wouldn't tell me, hey, let's go hiking", this woman has never hiked one day in her life, she doesn't have any hobbies, we got into a rut i know, but an answer like that tells me she's not 100% up in the head. Plus she made it seem like all there was to me was that, listen to music (big hobbie of mine), like i couldn't be spontaneous, jeez.

I own my mistakes, i did many. I had a problema with alcohol mainly the last year and a half into the marriage. i neglected my wife, but so did she. We focused on our son and forgot about us. i did lie to her several times, mainly stupid White lies, i'm dealing with that in IC. 

I was have always been a good father, but a few months ago my W made me question my abilities as a father because i said i want to spend more time with our S, i want him to spend the night with me. She said "You have to prove yourself, your credibility is 0 right now, you have to prove you have right judgment and criteria" i agreed at first like she was right and then i out my foot down "I have never ever been negligent with our son, i had never had bad judgement with him, nothing has happend while he's been at my care", you know, she wanted me to think i had been a negligent father but deep down i believe she wanted to convince herself of this so her desition was justified.

My W is a very intelligent beautiful woman. She's an only child that had all the attention of her parents and grandparents growing up. She grew up in confort life style where her dad had a good paycheck, very good. When she met me she put all this into me and expected me to do very well economically. We havent done bad, we both make decent money, but we have to work hard for it, two Jobs each, i believe she's not happy about herself because she has to work so hard, let me explain.

She graduated top of her class in HS and in college, she is a Physical Therapist, a very good one. She does OK with working at the cáncer hospital and has a very good private practice but she has to work her butt off, so do I. She could have been anything she wanted, a doctor, anything medicine related, she chose her profession because she wanted something medicine related. Whe i have asked her why didn't she go into medicine (doctor), she said she didn't wanted to deal with shifts. I know doctors that work in labs or in clinics that don't have shifts, but as hard worker as she is i believe she didn't wanted to deal with it and she prefered to have something less demanding and a husband to do most of the work.

Reality is she has to work very hard to make the $ she makes and i think that ahs taken a toll on her, add a house, small child, a H and she got tired, "is this all there is to life". she expected me to take care of her, and for her not to have to work so hard, that didn't happen and she got frustrated, but she's frustrated with herself because she would have wanted a different life, different choice, like i said she could have been anything she wanted and she settled for a lesser (economically speaking) profession and it has backfired now.

That's why i'm the Stone in her shoe, the reason she's not happy is me, with me out of the picture she will find happiness (in her mind), because i really don't believe our issues after only 5 years are so bd that we had/have to divorce, but she's unhappy, so I'm the reason, therefore i have to go.

A shame really because we could have at least try to work it out, i mean we have a small son. Kids are not a reason to stay married if you are not happy but at least you can bloddy hell try!.

All i can do now is work on myself, i have childhood issues that i have to deal with, i didn't knew my father until i was 12 and other things. I have to better myself for me and my son. I have to be there every step of the way, always present. That is my priority and we will pull thru.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

So yesterday i spent the afternoon with my son, very happy about it, we had a lovely time at the park. it makes me mad that W is throwing our family away because of what she feels.

I will have my S this weekend so that will make for more bonding with him. The good thing about this whole situation is that now i appreciate the Little things more, every hour that i spend with him counts and i make it count.

Cheers.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> Regretf - You keep bringing up the resentment you feel towards your wife over the fact that she has no desire to reconcile the relationship.
> 
> You have to work on letting go of this resentment towards your STBXW. This will not happen until you stop blaming her for choosing not to reconcile. She is under no obligation to work on the marriage now that you have an interest in fixing it.
> 
> ...


I know you are right Lila and i have to let go of so many feelings and memories, it's just that in my STXW head she worked on the M for a long time, but it was in her head, when the $%&( hit the fan it took me by surprise, it really did, like it happens to a lot of men. it was her unwillingness to try to work on the M last year when everything went down that saddens me. I mean kids are not enough reason to stay married if there's not love, but you could at least try you know.

I'm still grasping this concept of not being happy or nor being in love anymore. I was under the impression that your happiness depends on no one but yourself, shure your partner should be a big part of it, but shouldn't be just up to him to the the guardian of your happiness.

It makes me sad that i will miss out so much of my son's every day life because she wasn't "happy", i mean she gets to have him everyday and i don't, i get your regular every other weekend, two days a week afternoons, nobody said life is fair but nothing i did in our M made me deserve this outcome, shure i made a lot of mistakes, i own them all and i'm working hard to better myself, not having my son with me everyday just breaks my heart.

Still have a lot to learn in this life...


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

It makes me sad that you want to be so close with your son, but can't see him as often as you'd like. Maybe it will help to talk to your wife and come up with a schedule that allows you to see him more often. Your first priority (both you and your wife's) should be your son's wellbeing...and it's good for him to spend time with both his mother and his father.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> It makes me sad that you want to be so close with your son, but can't see him as often as you'd like. Maybe it will help to talk to your wife and come up with a schedule that allows you to see him more often. Your first priority (both you and your wife's) should be your son's wellbeing...and it's good for him to spend time with both his mother and his father.


I know, thanks Orange_Pekoe. I do pick him up every day to take him to daycare and every day that i drop him off i get teary-eyed. I didn't take him for granted when i was living with him and his mother but of course you do, because you have him everday. Now i make it count.

I will have him this weekend and i should have him the next weeked also, because my wife took him for 10 days to her parents farm in the countryside. I was OK with it and didn't protest. I tell her that now is my turn to have him two straight weekends, and she tells me that we need to talk about it, that i had him two straight weekends before she took him to her parents farm. Arggghh.

We comunícate because of my son, but she's making this whole process more difficult than it has to be. her initial proposal of visitation rights was just 18 hours a month!, 18 hours! of course i'm going to resent that.

Whe i told her that i want/need for my son to spend the night with me on my weekends, she tells me that she has to see the visitation agreement first, which she knows because her lawyer, my lawyer and her agreed on it. She's mad at me because i won't let her buy me out for just 15k and because i won't pay her the $800 she wants for child support.

She made her decisión on wanting to separate and then D, but she had a very different outcome planned, now that i haven't bent over for her she's piss%$.

The child support hearing is on the 25th of march and then the visitation rights hearing. I'm thinking that once he's older i will fight for custody 50/50, i refuse to just have my son less than part time, i know mothers get custody, but i want to be a big part of my son's life, not just the weekend-fun dad kind of type.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> Yeah, my lies were white lies like the garbage thing.
> 
> she has always said that i tricked her, that i sold myself very well during the courtship, but that i was somebody else. She put qualities imto me.
> 
> ...


Everyone touts their A game in courtship....

Why wouldn't the 9 year b/f marry her?

What was her childhood like.... relationship with her mom and dad?

It may have been asked before but.... I ask anyway.

My last ex g/f did that... when one blame shifts they take their negativity and 

faults and place them on you. Of course they sequence the faults to

suit any shortcoming you may have in the spouse's eyes. It's also called

covert contracts. She could have used reasons such as not raising the lid

to pee, leaving socks on floor, not putting cap on toothpaste....

as to leave and ask for D. That is why we always say.... observe at 50k ft.

Work on yourself..... in the past she was not in this "state of mind"

well....... now she is. Good chance she will later return to her original state

but in the meantime.... you work on you..... better yourself

If she never comes back around (rare... observed this over 25 years)

then you have learned valuable lessons and improved yourself.

If she comes back around you have learned valuable lessons and improved

yourself. See the difference?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Lila said:


> Regretf - You keep bringing up the resentment you feel towards your wife over the fact that she has no desire to reconcile the relationship.
> 
> You have to work on letting go of this resentment towards your STBXW. This will not happen until you stop blaming her for choosing not to reconcile. She is under no obligation to work on the marriage now that you have an interest in fixing it.
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Regret you can't force some one back. If the two of you were back together

this weekend.... and rug swept.... I promise you..... six months later

you would be back in the same position. If she does not want to be with you,

you "set her free." Have all my serious ones came back down the road?

Yes they did but.... many more times than not.... I had moved on.

Regret..... what do you tell yourself when you ask, "Why does she not want

to be with Regret?"


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Everyone touts their A game in courtship....
> 
> *MC therapist told her that, people show their best during courtship and that she probably put around more qualities in me that i had, she came from someone who wouldn't marry her to someone that she saw as her saving board, so this guy (me) must be THE THING, of course she told the therapist than no, she did not put more qualities in me that ihad but that i "tricked" her, i "sold myself very well"*
> 
> ...


*I'm working on myself, everyday, i recognized my mistakes, personal ones and the ones i made in the M, i'm working with a therapist, i'm working on myself spiritually, something i had never done, i'm becoming a better me for myself and my son.*


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> Regret you can't force some one back. If the two of you were back together
> 
> ...


No, i agree. I really don't want her back, too much has happend and it would take lots of work, MC, spiritual growing and humbling for it too work and she's not willing to, not now not 5 months ago. I was willing to do whatever it took, anything man, for my family, but what can you do if somebody doesn't love you anymore, nothing.

We drifted apart, i just got comfortable in my zone, i thought her love for me was a lot stronger and that when we were willing to make the R work we would have been able to, i was wrong. She had stopped loving me who knows when, i was blind, deaf and stupid to take notice, then again she never comunicated her sadness and unhappiness to me, both our fault.

What do i tell myself?, she doesn't love me, she thinks she can do better out there, the whole grass is greener thing. I think she is blaming me for her unhappiness in life and that i'm not to blame for eveything that's wrong with her, i own my crap, but i'm not responsable for her own happiness, a part of it yeah, but not the whole thing.,

She was/is going to IC, but more like dealing with "where did her love go" and dealing with the end of the M, much more than her own issues, after all, according to her i'm the one with the issues and not her.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Her anger and resentment will not allow her to move on, and she will carry that baggage into another relationship.

As for the grass being greener, if you make the investments in yourself, the grass will be greener where ever you go. Well, higher probability anyways.

You have gained the wisdom to give yourself a higher chance of a better marriage the next time around. Correct your bad behavior, and it will be less of an impediment on your next relationship. Hopefully, she works through her issues too, or she is likely to repeat past mistakes.

The marriages I know that have the best chance of lasting are the ones with a marriage check-up, usually done once a week. Where it is just the couple talking about the issues, seeing if they are heading down the same path, and weaknesses that they might perceive in the relationship. This time has no place for anger, and where both sides feel safe to say their piece without interruption. This exercise builds understanding, and strengthens a bond between two people, thus each side is willing to listen, compromise, and let go of the smaller issues.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Her anger and resentment will not allow her to move on, and she will carry that baggage into another relationship.
> 
> As for the grass being greener, if you make the investments in yourself, the grass will be greener where ever you go. Well, higher probability anyways.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mr. Fisty, as always your thoughts in these borads are well taken words of wisdom.:smthumbup:


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

At 2 years things were perfect.
At 4 years they were at separation

I smell marital rewriting.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> At 2 years things were perfect.
> At 4 years they were at separation
> 
> I smell marital rewriting.


I know. They weren't perfect at 2 years, but they were pretty good or maybe she was unhappy and didn't show it. I know at two years we had a good M our son was just a baby and where were really happy with our lives.

But then by 2013-2104 we started to drift apart but not in the sense that it would come to this.

I still remember the anniversay card she gave me when we turned 2 "Thanks for being the best husband, friend in the world".

Probably in my first fathers day in 2012 or maybe it was 2013 she gave me a card saying "Thanks for being such a great dad to our son", but just a few months ago she didnt trust my judgement and criteria with our son, she said i had to "prove myself" and demonstrate respomsability WTF. When i called her on this i said but you used to say i was as such a great father to him and i used to babysit him great when he was just a few months old and you used to say "ohh, i give you so much work with our son, most dads wouldn't put in the work you do with ours", and she said, just a couple of months ago, "ohh that was then, the situation was different and there were things i didn't know about you then", What frigging things? She also said "But i always left you everything ready, not a big deal". Minimize my good deeds and good traits and maximize my bad ones.

Yes, she has rewriten a whole lot of our history, i think it the end she has to do so to justify her decision.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Regretf said:


> I know. They weren't perfect at 2 years, but they were pretty good or maybe she was unhappy and didn't show it. I know at two years we had a good M our son was just a baby and where were really happy with our lives.
> 
> But then by 2013-2104 we started to drift apart but not in the sense that it would come to this.
> 
> ...


Awfully fast change. Is that the only change at that time?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

well it wasnt really a fast change it was gradually. We were like roomates and we did have sex, but most of the time initiated by me.

She complained at the beggining that she would try to engage in sex witb me and some times i turned her down. My recolection of the whole thing was more like she would rub my foot withbher foot at 1 am and yes i did not engage in sex at those particular times so she "gave up" initiating sex so it was me 90% of thr time and ibgot frustrated sometimes so i didnt engage in sexn and sometimes it was weeks in between. Sometimes it was twice a week or once, bear in mind witb a toddler around it wasnt always easy to find time. But when we did it was satisfying for both of us.

About the change, my W tends to not express her feelings or show them so indknt know.

Shyte hitbthe fan innseptembrr when she withdrew from me because she was "done" tired and emotionally drained from dealing with my actions suposedly. I had a bit too much to drink at my sons bday party and she had tondrive. I wasnt drunk but tipsy. Thats when she changed her attitude towards me. Same time her divorced friend had entered the picture and she would call him a lot. This i confronted her and she said he was a friend from school. I did believe her. Then after separated found out about the calls she made tobhim on a constant basis. More specifically after ibhad left. Calls stop 2 weeks aftrr i left.

Thats not the reason we separated but im shure it contribute tobher mind being messed up. EA or not. Probably yes. I believe she compared me and saw qualities in friendbthat she didnt see in me anymore. Oh well. Life goes on.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

What will always intrigue me was why she stopped calling him. I mean she talk to this "friend" almost every day and all.of a sudden stop. No more calls. And this was way before i foudn out.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Regretf said:


> Same time her divorced friend had entered the picture and she would call him a lot. This i confronted her and she said he was a friend from school. I did believe her. Then after separated found out about the calls she made tobhim on a constant basis. More specifically after ibhad left. Calls stop 2 weeks aftrr i left.
> 
> Thats not the reason we separated but im shure it contribute tobher mind being messed up. EA or not. Probably yes. I believe she compared me and saw qualities in friendbthat she didnt see in me anymore. Oh well. Life goes on.


And there... Is the root catalyst, if not outright cause.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

That's the catalyst of that im shure. The time of her "change of attitude" towards me as she put it coincide with her phone conversations with her recently aquianted HS friend. Bear in mind this was an old school mate of her not a friend. Since july prob her old HS friends started hanging around and Whatsupp. They did went out to dinner a couple of times and one BBQ. 

She called him a few times as soon as she got out of the house for work at 6 am. She gave me an excuse about something he needed at the hospital she works. That was the first call. After i left no more calls at 6 am.

The last call was on october the 6th. 31 minute call she made to him.

I cant prove she cheated, i dont think it got physical but she had at least an EA.

Shes not thr one to have long chats on the phone, only with her family. So the long calls to this long lost friend made me suspiscious. In my gut i knew there was something fishy back in september. Funny thing is i never ever had a bad feeling about her before that. She's a very serious and moral person or at least up to that point.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Whether she is involved with someone or not, it is beyond your control. People are dysfunctional, and the best way to lessen our dysfunctional traits is acceptance. From there, we can modify our behavior to either limit our dysfunction or remove it.

If I had to make a guess, I would say she is most likely involved. People with strong attachments and are mentally healthy are less likely to cheat. Think of indifference like a void. The more or stronger an attachment is, the less void there is. We are capable of forming a limited amount of attachments. Her anger and resentments, created a void where another person was able to slip in, and replacing the attachment she had for you with someone else. Most likely, he was originally someone she talked to because she wanted an emotional connection, someone to understand her. That was probably the spark that started building her attachment to the OM.

You did not cause her to cheat, that is on her. But with correlation, brings relation. I was an abused victim, and that caused me to be an angry person. My father may of have physically abused me, but me getting into fights is my own issue. My father did not cause me to get into those fights, my anger was the cause.

But our past does not condemn us forever. WE can learn and grow. Your wife may have ended things poorly with you, but it does not mean she is forever condemn to misery. She can learn and grow like the rest of us. Now is the best time for you to focus on you. Whatever you did in the past, you can grow as a person and find a fulfilling life again. I had to forgive my abuser and move on with life. That is a really difficult thing to do, but the more anger and bitterness you feel, the more strings are attached to your past, making it more difficult to move on.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Whether she is involved with someone or not, it is beyond your control. People are dysfunctional, and the best way to lessen our dysfunctional traits is acceptance. From there, we can modify our behavior to either limit our dysfunction or remove it.
> 
> If I had to make a guess, I would say she is most likely involved. People with strong attachments and are mentally healthy are less likely to cheat. Think of indifference like a void. The more or stronger an attachment is, the less void there is. We are capable of forming a limited amount of attachments. Her anger and resentments, created a void where another person was able to slip in, and replacing the attachment she had for you with someone else. Most likely, he was originally someone she talked to because she wanted an emotional connection, someone to understand her. That was probably the spark that started building her attachment to the OM.
> 
> ...


I will never know to what extent she was "involved" with this other person, it was the catalyst but like i mentioned on a previous post she stopped calling this other man for whatever reasons i will never know. Wether she's involved right now with somebody else, i really don't know, she could be or could not, still it would be a mistake on her part as her anger and resentment towards me hasn't ended, therefore it will be more difficult to move on towards somebody else. We are not even divorced yet, here in our country is more difficult to D than over the US, you cannot cite "irreconciliable difference", if there is not a probable cause of D you both have to agree, and we are still fighting over CS, child visitation rights and the selling of the apartment.

I'm slowly moving on and getting on with my life which is difficult as i do not have my own place to live right now (staying with my brother). Once we sell the condo and i get my own place i will be able to restart my life easier. Spending time with my son is also very rewarding.

I still believe she didn't think throughly her decision and consequences of a D, she was in a fog or mist right about that time, be it for OM around or her pride and negavitivty on the whole M and i can't control that, i can onloy control my life and what i do and happens next.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Hi all,

I was going to reread my whole thread but i'm just not there.

Working on myself and detaching from my STBXW, it's hard, since i have to see her almost everyday because of my son. Going thru the rollercoaster of emotions, sometimes blaming me, blaming her, having regrets, bad luck, bad attitude, resent and anger on her part. i know 5 years is not a lot for a M compaired to what i read in TAM, but it was a lot to me. You don't M thinking you are going to D, and i really thought i had found my special person, specially having a son, all your dreams start to become reality and you work on that, lack of experience in living together situations, inmaturity and ego took it's tll in our M.

I was thinking the other day that my w previous R with her ex boyfriend of 9 years that wouldn't marry her must have scarred her and took it's toll in her patience and tolerance with me. If you read my thread we had problems but her resentment got in the way of her giving us another chance, maybe she brought her resentment from her previous R into our M and when things didn't happen as she tought in her mind they should she pulled back. Obviously her love for me wasn't big or enough because i believe when love is there you can wether almost anyhting in a R or M.

Well, keep on working on me. I have spent a lovely weekend with my son, even if he's not spending the night yet with me, we are making our bond stronger, i'm there for him and want to be the best dad that i can be for him. I'm not going to be an absent father like my dad was to me, i will make shure that my son counts on me every single day of his life.

dating?, that's not something i'm really looking forward, maybe someday, right now it's all about my son and me. i really feel like it's going to be hard to trust my heart to somebody else or even trust myself. casual dating?, i guess would be the logical step, even that i'm not looking forward to, maybe if i was 10 years younger (i'm 39) i would be all over the place enjoying my single life, maybe once the D is oficial i will detach more and more and will see.

Have a great week everyone.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

So another update:

Went to my IC she says that i'm doing a lot better with everything, more in control and acceptance of everything around me, resigned i guess. Also growing and dealing with inner things in my life that have prevented me from being the man i can be. She has spaced our sessions as she says she's seen a big improvement in me from the man that first came to see her almost 5 months ago. I have my off days like everyone else. I told her that i made myself the promise not to engage with STBXW, not regarding our M and that i have decided to take the high road. She congratulated me on this.

I have been trying to not engage with STXW but yesterday we had a discussion.

My lawyer and her lawyer went thru the visitation agreement over a month ago, after three hours of going around they agreed on a lot of things or more, my lawyer and W lawyer made my W come to her senses (she was giging me only 18 hours a month on visitation).

My selfish W comes with the excuse that as long as i don't have my own place my son can't sleep with me on weekends, she doesn't trust my brother's place and maybe only at my mother's will she let my son sleep with me. This has been going on for a few weeks, her pulling this card to get back at me.

Now she's leaving for 5 days to the US for a seminar and my son will stay with her parents and go to their farm on that weekend, i ndid not agree, if she's out of the country i should have my son.

We exchanged weekends and i will see him three straight weekends and she will have him two straight ones. She still won't let me have him over i got real upset and talked to my lawyer.

There's no way she can do this, she's depriving me of my right to have my son over the night using excuses after excuses (she wants to see the agreement, told her it's the usual everyother weekend, two days a week agreement).

I made to dumbest move i have ever made and moved out of my apartment 5 months ago (how do mi regret it), my lawyer will have this sort out. I told my wife or STBXW that i will not back down when it means bonding with my son, and that excuse of "oh, you don't have your own place", i do have my own frigging place that ik moved out IF i have to move back to have my son more i will do it, i really don't give a darn about her at this point.

Why is she being such a Bit%&, so selfish, i wonder sometimes why i married this woman in the first place, if i only knew back then.

Not only she took part of my son's life away from me but now wants to make it difficult for me to have him over. Can't she see that it's going to hurt my son more in the long run?, he needs to have that bond stronger with his father.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Right now....... she does not care about anyone but her

if she can not watch after him, you should be the next option

NOT her parents. Consult with your lawyer on this before she departs


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Right now....... she does not care about anyone but her
> 
> if she can not watch after him, you should be the next option
> 
> NOT her parents. Consult with your lawyer on this before she departs


I did, she cannot. My lawyer is dealing with it right now.

This friking nightmare doesn't end.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She thinks all this is a game..... time to "get real" with her


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Only thing you can do about her irrationality is to deliver consequences. As for the reason why she is doing this to you, she has lots of anger and resentment towards you. She is an antagonist towards what outcome you want. Her emotions are over-powering her rational side, and her actions will come from there. You have to keep that in mind.

Although, I am curious about something. What are the people around her saying? What is their views? If the people are giving her a hard time, she will redirect that anger towards you. Either she has major anger issues, or the circumstances around her is causing her irritation, thus she does not have a respite from it all.

Really not your issue, but issues are like a ripple effect that affects your life. It is her issue to work on, but it ripples out and you have to deal with the fallout. That is the reality of what you have.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Only thing you can do about her irrationality is to deliver consequences. As for the reason why she is doing this to you, she has lots of anger and resentment towards you. She is an antagonist towards what outcome you want. Her emotions are over-powering her rational side, and her actions will come from there. You have to keep that in mind.
> 
> Although, I am curious about something. What are the people around her saying? What is their views? If the people are giving her a hard time, she will redirect that anger towards you. Either she has major anger issues, or the circumstances around her is causing her irritation, thus she does not have a respite from it all.
> 
> Really not your issue, but issues are like a ripple effect that affects your life. It is her issue to work on, but it ripples out and you have to deal with the fallout. That is the reality of what you have.


I already talked to my lawyer and send my W a couple of emails in a very proper way saying i don't want to fight or take this the lagal way, we made an agreement yesterday on how we were going to handle weekends on march. She's leaving for a seminar to the US and leaving our son with her parents, that's HER weekend. My son enjoys his grandparents and they love him. I have no problema with that, even though i should be first choice to take care of him if she's not available. All i want is for her to le me excercise my right to spend the night with my son when is my weekend.

She has anger issues, always have. She's irrational and wants to make my feel bad because:

I didn't want to sell her my share of the condo for the 15K she offer.

I didn't want to pay her the $800 she was asking for CS and jump on her legally by offering a voluntary CS sum of $350 which will be upped most certainly by the judge on the hearing on 3/25 but not to $800. I offered her $450 for a thre and a half year old boy and she refused.

She's still angry and resentful at me because i have not lay down and bowed my head to her petitions, she would have liked for me to accept the D and aknowledge it was ALL my fault and not hers, and i have owned my mistakes, she still resents me for not being the man she "tought" i was or wanted me to be, that's on HER.

I don't think the people around her (parents) give her a hard time, specially her enabler mom. My W has made it seem like i was the bad guy and all of this happend because of me and my inmaturity, she had nothing to do with it. So in their mind 'am an irresponsible parent to my son (not a bit of truth to it) and whatever her "perfect only child queen of denmark" decides is the best solution outcome.

I'm shure her mom, the dad is a more reasonable person, thinks that since i'm the man i should have bowed to her daughters petitions/offerings and 'am selfish because i didn't wanted to accept them.

My W and MIL (which used to adore me) at the end were critizicing me via Whatsupp all the time, judging me, being prejudiced thinking that everything i did was wrong, and saying that "yeah, wait until he gets drunk next time", her mom is her most infuential person around, toxic influence.

The day i left the house i called my mother in law and she procede to laid every complain on me, every complain her daughter had told her and every criticism she tought of me, she even went as far as saying to me that when we were dating there was an incident (which i don't recall) that we where at their farm and there was a very good friend of mine, my best friend, and we were hanging out, all of us, her family and all and i went to sleep earlier tan anybody (Not drunk at all, just tired) and my MIL said to me the day i left that she had told her daughter not to marry me because any decent, respectable boyfriend/husband would not go to bed earlier tan his GF/wife and leave his GF/wife drinking with his friends, it was my BF and her family, not like i left her alone with my best friend.,

So you see, enablers who think their daughter's shyte don't stink.

Of course the situation of her having to elave our apartment (once it sells) not her initial plan and having to move back to mom's and dad's has her piss&%/ at me. She blames me for that too i guess.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She thought you were going to let her walk all over you

Notice how her attitude changes every time you stand up to her

Each time it will be easier and easier for you to do so

She is showing you who she actually is. Believe her!


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I know. Today that i went to pick up my son she had a quiet attiude. Wouldnt say humble but less bullish. When i said goodbye to my son she gave me a look. Cant describe it. It was like a puppy or child you just reprimended. Weird. Maybe its my head. But yeah ebrrytime i stand up she changes her attitude.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Sounds like a trap........... avoid! Stay at 50k feet, work on you

as for your boy.... DO NOT give one inch

Play time is over sweetie.... puppy dog eyes won't get it


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Sounds like a trap........... avoid! Stay at 50k feet, work on you
> 
> as for your boy.... DO NOT give one inch
> 
> Play time is over sweetie.... puppy dog eyes won't get it


Nahh, not puppy eyes, more like "you are really serious in your intentions" and I Am, i will not give up an inch for my son. It's very important to tighten the bond between him and I, taht's why i'm pushing for him to spend nights with me as son as posible.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> She thought you were going to let her walk all over you
> 
> Notice how her attitude changes every time you stand up to her
> 
> ...


You know, sometimes when we interact i see little reminders of the woman she used to be, mainly when she intercacts with my son, but most of the time i don't recongnize the woman she has become or the person she has always been and i didn't know or some demon has possesed her. Never knew she was this selfish and I was suppose to be the selfish one.

One thing i've learned is that throughout tribulations and hard times is when you see the true character of people. My W is the best of example of this.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It's easy to be wonderful when things are easy. It's when they aren't that you see the real person. You're seeing her now.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I would urge you to read the website ultimate husband.com and consider how a wife gets to the point of having a hardened heart. Perhaps things would go a little smoother if you had more compassion. You obviously did not respect your wife when married and together, perhaps you should do so now, she still is the mother of your kid. This is a sad situation, which you can help to lighten or make worse.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Openminded said:


> It's easy to be wonderful when things are easy. It's when they aren't that you see the real person. You're seeing her now.


Yes, sad but true.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

No one can force another person to love them or want to be with them. And not everyone agrees that staying together for the sake of a child is best.

Maybe when your wife does find a new relationship, she will appreciate your wanting more time with your son and become more flexible. That may be a panful way to look at it...but since she does not want you back, the sooner you begin to face it, the better off you will be.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Regretf--

Couple of observations. You are still way to focused on her emotions. When you get your son, it is nothing other than you getting your son. That is your goal. You smile, say "hi", get your son and leave. Every second you spend standing there is giving her opportunity to manipulate or to affect you which also affects the quality time you get with your son. Do not let her have power over you.

She has no control over whether your son spends the night once you get things done in court. Time to push it. Get a deal done ASAP. She wants a divorce? Fine. She needs to understand what that means----- less influence on you as a father.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Jane139: I do know what you mean. I did not say at any point that we had to stay together for the sake of our son, but it was worth a try, she didn't want to, i have to respect that decisión, even though i don't agree with it. We were just married 5 years, i have read a lot of case here where peole have fought/put up with for much longer but i guess everyone has their breaking point and my W has low tolerance/patience/flexibility. I have to move on, that i know but it is not something that i can do that easy, specially in the transition phase i'm in right now (living with my brother, waiting for the apartment to be sold).

D2H: I agree with what you are saying, i wish i could turn off a switch and not be bothered with her, i can't. Though in the last weeks i have been more "distant" and less "involved" and "engaged" with her. Only things regarding our son.

I'm pushing it, wrote her a very direct email yesterday with my lawyer's reponse regarding my son spending the night with me. She needs to gibe me an answer by friday regarding which weekend of the next two my son will spend the night with me, if she doesn't agree i will pursue legally in this case (my lawyer has already submitted the visitation agreement).

She had a very different idea of how things were going to turn around when she decided to D. None of her "ideas" have materialized, no it's not my idea to "get back at her" but i want what is fair for me and my son. I'm not asking for anything more that what is fair.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> Jane139: I do know what you mean. I did not say at any point that we had to stay together for the sake of our son, but it was worth a try, she didn't want to, i have to respect that decisión, even though i don't agree with it. We were just married 5 years, i have read a lot of case here where peole have fought/put up with for much longer but i guess everyone has their breaking point and my W has low tolerance/patience/flexibility. I have to move on, that i know but it is not something that i can do that easy, specially in the transition phase i'm in right now (living with my brother, waiting for the apartment to be sold).
> 
> D2H: I agree with what you are saying, i wish i could turn off a switch and not be bothered with her, i can't. Though in the last weeks i have been more "distant" and less "involved" and "engaged" with her. Only things regarding our son.
> 
> ...


Regret.... you're starting to remind me of Rocky Balboa in Rocky IV

when he finally gets a shot in on Drago in late round 2.

That fight changed right then.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

RegretF - I had read this one in the past but didn't realize it was you.

I want to get caught up on the whole thing but I can see all the correlations you and I have had. I feel your pain 100%. The affect this has on our kids kills me as much as anything.

I am going to be praying more for this specific situation. I'm not sure where you are at on making the changes she felt weren't there after you got married...she may be just like my wife...which is both bad and good. 

It does seem like her world isn't working out quite the way she thought it would either. I think if you are becoming the man she feels she needs (we already know she loved you once) at the same time she is seeing her thoughts and ideas not pan out...that's when things can start to turn around. 

For me, our big turning point was after I wrote her a love letter...THEN she got bad news about other things in her life, then she went to church and the message was about forgiveness and she "woke up" and realized what she was doing to her family.

If that is what it takes, I'm glad that is what happened. In the meantime, in the lead up to all of that, I tried to show her love so that she knew she was walking away from as good of a thing as she could likely find, but also didn't try to argue or talk her into anything. 

This is what I know for sure in my life...in general, if you are going to be anything, be thankful...if you are going to be anything ELSE, be consistent. Those two qualities affect who you attract and where you go. If you "change" but aren't consistent, she'll pick up on it quick and reaffirm to herself that she was right. It isn't easy, but the stakes are high.

I'll read up on the rest of this soon. Take care my friend.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> RegretF - I had read this one in the past but didn't realize it was you.
> 
> I want to get caught up on the whole thing but I can see all the correlations you and I have had. I feel your pain 100%. The affect this has on our kids kills me as much as anything.
> 
> ...


Thanks Skill. I read your last post yesterday about your W putting off the D. That is great news, she wants to work on the M, it will take work, faith, will and not giving up.

I have changed a lot of things in these last 5 months, for the better for me and my son. Wether she picks them up it's up to her. I'm not counting on us getting back together, will continue working on me and beig a better father.

I did write her a letter i think in january, a very heartfelt letter. Which she read and told me that these things are told in person and not by letters i said "but you never gave me a chance".

Anyway to God to show me the way and makes me stronger and helps me carry this cross (burden). I will have my son for the next two weekends so i'm looking forward to that.

Your W realized that what she was doing was wrong, mine doesn't. Different circumstances though, your's had an EA i believe mine did too but she doesn't see it that way/won't admit it, anyway that is over whatever it was.

Before the fall comes pride.

Keep working on you and i'll do the same. Will continue Reading the book you recommended and comment.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

Our wives do seem to have a lot in common. Which is both good and bad.

You seem to be doing as right as I would know how. Inside your mind and heart...where you see the end being and where you WANT the end being...make sure they match up.

If you don't see it working out, but you want it to...you're going in two different directions and that will lead to mixed signals...it did to me anyway... I wanted her back but my insecurities led to not believing it at times and that's usually when I'd do something I regretted.

Have you read the article posted on my reconciliation page? The one about having a wife with a hardened heart? If so, does that sound at all like it could possibly describe your wife? 

Take care bro and I will keep checking on you.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> I did write her a letter i think in january, a very heartfelt letter. Which she read and told me that these things are told in person and not by letters i said "but you never gave me a chance".


STOP catering to her with answers...... talk less, do more

you are your own person, not her puppet

yes she did not like the old Regret... but you are not that man anymore 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hzDSzQ0rzA


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> Our wives do seem to have a lot in common. Which is both good and bad.
> 
> You seem to be doing as right as I would know how. Inside your mind and heart...where you see the end being and where you WANT the end being...make sure they match up.
> 
> ...


Thanks Still.

Yes i have read it and tried to implemented but she's beyond that. I'm not really shure, actually right now i don't want a R. She has acted in ways that are way beyond what i expected of her. She does a hardened heart and me, there's nothing i can do to soften it. it's all in God's hands right now. I will continue working on myself.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I'm doing the best i can and trying not to fall into her traps and what nots.

Yesterday i went to pick up my son to take him to the park, had a great time. Went back to drop him and when we got to the apartment i told his mom that i needed to use the bathroom (guest bathroom) she rolled her eyes and twisted her mouth. This is not the first time she has done this so i said to her "What is your problem, i can't use the bathroom in my own house?, she said "use it, use it".

I went in there and hugged my son goodbye. Wanted to get into an argument with her but i left before that. Wrote her a very honest and direct email about it but i never send it.

I tell you, i'm trying to do this amicably but she has to complicate things so much. I did leave the house hurt because of her actions, it shouldn't affect me but it does. I can't believe it has come to this, having to end up a M like this it's really emotionally draining.

When people tell me, this is her, trust what you see i believe them. Maybe i didn't really knew my W and this is her swhoing her true colors. I don't regret marrying her because a good thing came out of this, my beautiful son. It pains me to have to coparent with this person the rest of my life.

What the &/&%$ does she want?, why is she still so frigging hanged up on things?, she is very mad and upset that things have not turned out like she planed/hoped and that i have not bent over like she expected.

Saw her this morning when i went to pick up my son for school, she looke beutiful on the outside but her heart is rotten. I really can't be with a person like that, there is no kindness in this woman.

For all the mistakes i did and shortcomings i really don't believe i deserve all this crap, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Good thing is that with all her actions she's making me see her real self, and my love for her is getting weaker and weaker.

I will pull thru from this, i will get out of this hole.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You need to strive for not allowing those kinds of looks or reactions to cause a reaction in you. The best thing you can do is act like it never happened. She is feeding off of it.

50,000 feet, brother.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Regretf said:


> I'm doing the best i can and trying not to fall into her traps and what nots.
> 
> Yesterday i went to pick up my son to take him to the park, had a great time. Went back to drop him and when we got to the apartment i told his mom that i needed to use the bathroom (guest bathroom) she rolled her eyes and twisted her mouth. This is not the first time she has done this so i said to her "What is your problem, i can't use the bathroom in my own house?, she said "use it, use it".
> 
> ...


Why why why why why go in there and use the bathroom? Drop your son off. Smile. Leave.

You have to act yourself into the emotion right now. Get your mind right and imagine yourself doing the simple act of smiling, getting or dropping off your son before you do it. AND, execute. 

It's very similar to sports. See it in your head, then do it.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Absolutely right. That should be my mindset.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Regretf...reading these posts, I think about my own situation a lot. When my husband comes to pick up our daughter or to drop her back off, we don't even say hello to each other anymore. Because we are so angry and hurt. But honestly, this is not the kind of relationship I want with the father of my child. At the very least, we should be civil...and more so, we should be courteous. Hopefully one day, we will be friendly.

I agree with others - when you drop him off, just smile, say goodbye to your wife, give your son a HUGE hug and kiss and say nice things to him, then leave. No washroom, no chit chat. 

Hang in there...


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks Orange_Pekoe. I will follow your advice as well as D2H.

The insanity continues. My son's mother won't allow me to have my son over when is my weekend. Her excuse is that the agreement my lawyer sumbitted after 3 hours of negotiations with her and her lawyer is vague and she's looking after our son's best interest. BS. Her initial agreement was for me to spend only 18 hours a month with him. No sleepovers until i have my own place and until he was 6 years old he would spend every long weekend, easter, carnivals (long weekend here) novemeber memorial long weekend and most long weekends with her. Up to and including Christmas and new years. My lawyer turn that down obviously.

Her stupid excuses for not letting my son spend the night with me at first were that i wasn't mature enough, no criteria and judgments and that i had to "prove" myself. BS.

Now her excuses are:

He can't spend the night with my at my brother and sister in law's palce (where i sleep) because they "throw" parties, BS. They have get togethers like every other couple or family same as my STXW and i used to have.

He can't spend the night with me at my mom's because my mom had Post Traumatic Stress from my stepfather's death 2 years ago and she wasn't doing well. BS. My mom is perfectly fit mentally and phisically.

He can't spend the night with me at my dad´s (who she's very fond of) because he lives in a high rise condo (36th floor) and doesn't trust the "Windows" BS. Windows are perfectly safe and secure.

So i called my lawyer and she's going first thing on monday to see how the visitation and custody case is going (things in our country take forever) and write a very nasty letter to the child custody court.

What did i do to this woman?

Wouldn't sell her my share of the apartment that i still pay for the 15K she proposed. My share is about 49K-54K and i was willing to drop it to 35K for her. She can't and won't pay me that plus she needs to change her car in two years. WTF.

I woudln't pay her the $800 plus she wanted for child support. Offer her $450 and she wouldn't have it. So i went ahead and did a petition for voluntary child support. The court hearing is on the 25th of march.

I had bought tickets for all of us to go on vacation to the US last year in november (bought them in june, late june). When the shyte hit the fan back in september she told me that that should be on hold. The in october she said that it was best for us not to go on that trip since we would be spending money and the situation was not ideal for us. I agreed, and she said she was still going to go solo because she wanted to take a seminar (that was part of the ideal plan) and that she would oay me the ticket. I said fine.

So this week she tells me that she going to go in a couple of weeks. And that we still need to see what and how are we going to do with the apartment. WTF, it was decided that we were going to sell it, it's like she wanted to pay me out of her share once the apartment is sold. I said, you are still going to pay me for that ticket?, she said. of course.

So i opened an account for our son, like a fundtrust for his education and my dad gave us 5k for it, that was back in 13. I said to her, i don't want the money but i want you to transfer those $721 to our son's account for his education. Guess she is pissed because she tought she was going to go to her seminar for free. Pay me the $721 once the apartment is sold. NO FRIKING WAY.

Cake eating at it's best.

She can go to hell.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> I'm doing the best i can and trying not to fall into her traps and what nots.
> 
> Yesterday i went to pick up my son to take him to the park, had a great time. Went back to drop him and when we got to the apartment i told his mom that i needed to use the bathroom (guest bathroom) she rolled her eyes and twisted her mouth. This is not the first time she has done this so i said to her "What is your problem, i can't use the bathroom in my own house?, she said "use it, use it".
> 
> ...


Your W bandaged herself up the best she could, as long

as she could and you are now seeing her without bandages.

I said the exact thing about my ex g/f. Regret.... I want to give 

you three reading assignments on TAM. The poster's name is

Zillard. He and I hit TAM back in 2012. I think VERY highly of him.

His story and his W sound similar to yours. It is lengthy but you

will be introduced to posters who were / still are TAM "gods" at 

giving advice. You seem to be at a low point... I remember my low point

all too well. 12/11/12..... I will never forget that day.... for several reasons.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/60683-what-do-i-dont-know.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/86433-z.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/204202-i-have-new-gf-my-xw.html


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Regretf...reading these posts, I think about my own situation a lot. When my husband comes to pick up our daughter or to drop her back off, we don't even say hello to each other anymore. Because we are so angry and hurt. But honestly, this is not the kind of relationship I want with the father of my child. At the very least, we should be civil...and more so, we should be courteous. Hopefully one day, we will be friendly.
> 
> I agree with others - when you drop him off, just smile, say goodbye to your wife, give your son a HUGE hug and kiss and say nice things to him, then leave. No washroom, no chit chat.
> 
> Hang in there...


We all have primal instincts to become angry when we are hurt

Sneak up and kick a pit bull.... Being aware of your self regulating skills

help you to avoid that. Sometimes people think they are angry but

not hurt. But look at the core emotion.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> Thanks Orange_Pekoe. I will follow your advice as well as D2H.
> 
> The insanity continues. My son's mother won't allow me to have my son over when is my weekend. Her excuse is that the agreement my lawyer sumbitted after 3 hours of negotiations with her and her lawyer is vague and she's looking after our son's best interest. BS. Her initial agreement was for me to spend only 18 hours a month with him. No sleepovers until i have my own place and until he was 6 years old he would spend every long weekend, easter, carnivals (long weekend here) novemeber memorial long weekend and most long weekends with her. Up to and including Christmas and new years. My lawyer turn that down obviously.
> 
> ...


Dude....... she wants control over you. Blow up her plans.

If your name is on the lease / mortgage... MOVE back home NOW

She wants you to pay her to leave. She is jerking your wanker and is

laughing the whole time she is doing it. Again.... start on Zillard's 

threads. His is a how-to manual on how to handle a W like yours.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Dude....... she wants control over you. Blow up her plans.
> 
> If your name is on the lease / mortgage... MOVE back home NOW
> 
> ...


Thanks Chuck, i will read the threads.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

This isn't specifically for you Regret...because I hate this for you and I know the anger and hurt and resentment...confusion, loss and sadness.

But it reminds me of what I've believed for a long time... Hurting people hurt people.

Whether it is intentional or not, it's what hurting people tend to do. I saw my wife in ways just like you...and wondered "who is this person????"

The advice is solid...she should see you happy and that's it. Good luck...that wasn't always my strong point. But it is good advice.

Praying for you, my friend.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hurt people........... hurt people 

common theme in Co-D speak


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Hurt people........... hurt people
> 
> common theme in Co-D speak


Hey Chuck, i have read about 20-25 pages of Zillards first thread. Waooo, can't wait to see how this unfolds. Crazy time there.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Bipolar moonshine batman. Took out my son today the whole day. X and i exchange texts during the day to see how S3 is doing and all. I mentionedto her that the late trip to the park had turned into a picnic since i twisted ankle jumping with son earlier on. She tells me to put ice on it.

when i dropped him am cool and not into chit chat and she looks at my bandaged
Ankle and starts smiling, like trying hard not to laugh. I said whats so funny? She starts joking about my ankle and me trying to catch up with my son and doing things with him that i cant anymore not being a kid anymore. So i smiles and said well yeah he's hard to keep up with. I should have left there but we kept talking for a couple of minutes about her cousin having a baby today and her being the godmother. I said congratulations. And told her my plans with S3 tomorrow. Called son hugged him, say goodnight and left.

im notsaying shes bipolar, but thiswoman somedays has so much anger and resent and others like today its like we are pals. Not falling into it.

tomorrow fun day with S3.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

That is the problem with anger issue, you do not know when someone will trigger. People will tend to walk on egg shells hoping for a good outcome. In that type of relationship, it kills transparency and intimacy.

When she is angry, the less you engage, the better. It is hard, but you have to show a neutral mask. She wants you to validate her anger, draw you into her turmoil,and dump her frustrations on you. It could be nurture or genetics. If genetics, then that will be more of a complicated issue. Whether she is in a good mood or not, be neutral.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I'm trying not to engae with her but sometimes it's difficult because of her constant cake eating and with the whole situation with my son.

Example: We were suppose to go last november on vacation to the US, we (I) had bought the tickets in late june last year. When she asked me to leave the house in late september and i foolishly did (wish i'd known about TAM back then) we talked about the trip and she said "we'll see".

Early october she tells me she thinks it's better if we don't go and spend the money on the trip since we would be "faking " it in front of the family and that she tried posptponing her seminar (one of the reasons for the trip) but there were no options for the seminar later on and that she would be going solo to her seminar and she would pay me the ticket. I said fine.

The next day i sent her an email with the Price of the ticket ($721) so she can pay me, no response and for some reason she doesn't go to her seminar. No more talk bout the tickets, the seminar or the trip in all these months.

Last week she tells me that she found another seminar and that she's going and tells me that we still have to see what's going to happen to tha apartment (meaning that she will pay me the $721 out of her share once the apartment sells) she doesn't tell me that i know that's what she meant. So i said "you are still going to pay me for the ticket?" she says, "since day 1 i told you i would".

I said, i will open a savings account for S3 education i want you to deposit the money in his account. All this via text, no response.

I opened the account last thursday and texted her the number and said "I appreciate if you deposit in his account the money before you leave for your seminar", no response. You see where this is going right?

So yesterday she texted me that she had to buy S3 some juice and cheese and it was $X so to transfer her the money i say OK, when are you going to transfer the money from the ticket to S3 account?

She says, " You know i don't have that amount right now i told you since the beggining that i would pay you out of the sale of the apartment" "or what i can do is transfer you each payday some money until y pay you off".

I said, this is not my money, it's S3 money i understand that you don't have the amount right now, so YES DO transfer money each payday until you have paid the $721 off, and send me the print screen to see that you do.

First of all, back in october when we talked about the trip and evrything we were not talking divorce or selling the apartment, so sh'es lying once again and rewriting M history. second of all, she has got to be the most selfish person i have ever known or met.

if things were the opposite and i was the one that asked for the D and she had paid for tickets, i would never in a million years have moral grounds to go on a personal trip with the ticket she paid for, less alone without paying her the total ammount first.

I get she has done what she wanted so far because i have let her, not anymore. No more cake eating from this woman.

Of course when i dropped S3 yesterday afternoon she had a "face of Stone", she was angry, because she tought i would let her off with the ticket, I didn't say anything, dropped my son and said goodbye to him and left, not a Word to her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Get the focus OFF of her and get to 50k feet

you will never have a life if you live through her actions

take care of you and S3, fvck her

How are you doing on Zillard's thread?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Get the focus OFF of her and get to 50k feet
> 
> you will never have a life if you live through her actions
> 
> ...


I know, i'm just venting on her cake eating.

It's going great, great Reading, i'm on page 80 i think, what a piece of work his W.


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## WasHappyatOneTime (Nov 26, 2012)

Regretf said:


> I know, i'm just venting on her cake eating.
> 
> It's going great, great Reading, i'm on page 80 i think, what a piece of work his W.


You'll get a real surprise at the end.

Did you like the picture of posOM?

Neat guy, that one.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

WasHappyatOneTime said:


> You'll get a real surprise at the end.
> 
> Did you like the picture of posOM?
> 
> Neat guy, that one.


I haven't seen any pictures yet.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

He was a cool dude showing two fingers while

sticking his tongue out

funny.... pop would call him a puss

no hot shot pulls that....


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Well i've been Reading Z thread very insightful.

On my part Lot's of battles with X regarding son and money of course. I had my son this weekend and we had a great time, X was bugging on sunday wanting to know everything we were doing. She wasn't willing to let me take him 45 minutes out of town to a an activity we had planned. Anyway i stood my ground and managed to take him there with X consent. Told her the truth, i don't want to go back to the old lying self that hid things a told a lot of White lies.

Everything's a battle these days, the child support court hearing is next week and then wait for the visitation and custody hearing as X is not letting my son spend the night with me yet. This makes me sad and angry. Can't let it show though.

been having a very couple of rough days, depressed and wondering how did I, we got to this place. Treating each other badly and not been with my son everyday breaks my heart. Being like this, torn, away from everything that meant something to me brings me down a lot.

I've been trying to do activities with friends and family and i do allright but constant thoughts of not being a constant part of my son's everyday life (even though i pick him up daily to take him to school) just really, really sadden me. I knok life is not fair, and this is what happens when you get D, but i dind't ask for this and neither did i behaved in a way to have my son taken from me like this. It's painful, and days like this i feel really low.

Obviously the person i married is not there anymore and has shown it's true colors and they're ugly. i do not want to be with a person like that but at the same time i do miss my family, my home, my life. it's like life nowdays don't have much meaning to me, everyday is kind of empty, except when i'm with my son. Taking him back to his mom often leads me to cry in the car on the way back, this is definitely the lowest point of my life and i have to crwal back to the surface but it's very, very hard.

Thankfully i have my family's full support and my friend's full support it does help a lot. And Reading other people's threads here on TAM and helping whoever i can with a post is very therapeutic.

Sorry for the rant i just needed to vent and hopefully i will get thru the day. I'm still griving the death of my M, we haven't even filed yet but it's clearly over and has been for a long time. I feel this weight on my chest and this knot in my throat. Painful to watch to people that "loved" each other and that have a small child in common end up like this, hurting each other.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Your W is not the ruler of your child

you have as many rights as she does

she still wants to control you

STOP IT

If I love a woman, I give 110% but

if I am crossed, I am a cold blooded SOB

you have rights, make sure your lawyer is backing you

she wants to be your mother

cut that schit out

how far are you on Z's thread


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Your W is not the ruler of your child
> 
> you have as many rights as she does
> 
> ...


My lawyer is backing me up and we are wating for the date on the court hearing regarding child custody and visitation rights. X doesn't want my s to spend the night with me yet, that is the main issue we are legally fighting. I stood my ground this wekeend regarding the activity i wanted to take my son to, never backed down and she had to concede, obviously sha made it seem like she was giving me a lease on trust, BS, saying she dind't trust me because of my past actions, taken advantage of incidents were i drank too much, but i never put my son's wellbeing in danger. Anyway took him to the activiy but X was giving me hell, whatever.

I'm up to page 100, interesting behaviour, many differences regarding his X and mine. She gave up custody of her daugther and it seems from what i'm Reading she wants to R but on her terms, unlike my X. Will continue Reading though.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Lots of reading left to do. I learned a ton from this thread and I

never even hand children. Have you noticed any master teachers yet?

She thinks with the child, she is boss, king, ruler

nip that schit in the bud NOW

When it comes to your child you would step in the ring with Mike Tyson

on his best day. Treat her the same way..... fight for your time


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Lots of reading left to do. I learned a ton from this thread and I
> 
> never even hand children. Have you noticed any master teachers yet?
> 
> ...


I am believe me. Not giving up an inch.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She thinks she is the judge, jury and executioner..... show her YOUR way of thought


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

Hey Reg, everytime I read your posts I feel like I get flashbacks from my own situation. Especially regarding my son.

I am in the process of R now...up and down but most of the downs are brought about by my self doubt and outlook...not all, but at least some.

Anyway, she came over last night and we were talking about "things"...she said that she had her mind made up. She didn't intend to come back although she was ashamed of her involvement with the EA. Anyway, she said that if God hadn't woke her up from the decisions she had been making, she didn't plan to turn back around. But He did...she was seeing the actual repercussions of her actions on herself and her family. It isn't like He just "made her fall in love with me" but she does feel like that is what it took and if we can learn from all this, it will be worth it. I'd have rather her fallen for me. But we have more work cutout for us than that.

I guess my point is...keeping building up you...be the man your son needs to be, that God calls you to be and let Him work on her. Your prayers and your examples will make a difference. You won't show love through hate and she won't feel safe with threats. With that said, you definitely need to hold your own...go for son...to everything you can. Just do it with as much grace and class as you can muster.

I'm praying for you my friend. For you, your son and your wife. That her eyes can be opened and heart changed. That is just what it will take im afraid.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> X was bugging on sunday wanting to know everything we were doing. She wasn't willing to let me take him 45 minutes out of town to a an activity we had planned. Anyway i stood my ground and managed to take him there with X consent. Told her the truth, i don't want to go back to the old lying self that hid things a told a lot of White lies.


None of her business what you do with your son. You are not a threat to abduct him. You are his father. Stop talking to her. STOP! Every single time you give her information you give her power and control over you. It's disgusting. My ex would ask what we were going to do at the very beginning. I would say with a big smile as I looked at the kids, "We are going to have fun." She would try to dig, and I would respond, "See you Sunday night at 6!" Get in the car....and leave.



> hurting each other


Only because you allow her to. See, the problem is you are looking at divorce as some devastating event. In reality, if you stayed with this "peach of a woman", your son would never get to really know his true father. He would only get the "puppet of his mother". It's time you went and grabbed your nuts out of her purse. Something I know to be true from experience is that kids will be fine as long as they have one parent who has their [email protected] together. I only see my kids twice a week and every other weekend, but I am much more influential on them from a mentoring perspective than their mother.

It's ok to cry. Just do it AFTER you drop off your son when you are alone or won't be around people for a while. THEN, get pissed and use that anger to workout or something. Time to get ripped.



> My lawyer is backing me up and we are wating for the date on the court hearing regarding child custody and visitation rights


Of course he is. His job is to put you in the best position to be successful. He knows that if you try to push that your STBX will run roughshod over you because you have shown to allow her to control everything.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

Reg,
I wanted to share with you something I've been doing regardless of how everything was going to work out. 
Every night before I went to bed, instead of doing a journal entry like I've done often through this ordeal, I'd write a little note/letter to my son. Every night I'd start by telling him that I love him...and that i loved mommy and sissies...and then told him something about the day and either what we did or what made me think of him. Sometimes I'd write about lessons I had learned through this hard time and often I told him how much I missed him.
Years later when he is a young man, these will mean a lot to him I think. Maybe help him avert some of the issues this has caused or give him something to think about if he is the one considering leaving a family.
I also thought, secondarily, that if I had to prove what kind of father I was, that my best intentions are truly for my son, the entries may help. Especially if she had nothing similar. 
Anyway, just a thought because I know your pain. Some times writing it left me hurting and in tears, other times it was therapeutic.
Take care, Brother. I am going to pray for you after I send this.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> Reg,
> I wanted to share with you something I've been doing regardless of how everything was going to work out.
> Every night before I went to bed, instead of doing a journal entry like I've done often through this ordeal, I'd write a little note/letter to my son. Every night I'd start by telling him that I love him...and that i loved mommy and sissies...and then told him something about the day and either what we did or what made me think of him. Sometimes I'd write about lessons I had learned through this hard time and often I told him how much I missed him.
> Years later when he is a young man, these will mean a lot to him I think. Maybe help him avert some of the issues this has caused or give him something to think about if he is the one considering leaving a family.
> ...



This sounds manipulative and like you are trying to prove to your son how special he is through words. It's ok. I used to think like this. Read "Letters from Dad" by Greg Vaughn. It will give you a much more concrete way to do things if you are into showing your kids later on what your journey looked like.

Personally, I am so thankful for my divorce. In anything in life, you have to have gratefulness. Embrace the pain that you are going through and allow God to strengthen you. Pain is good. It will help make you the man you were created to be if you allow it to and act on it. You can use it to flush out weakness.

Want to prove to your children how to live and how good of a dad you are? Act it out.....every single day. Treat your STBX how you want to be treated. Be honorable. Fight for what is right. Be a mentor to your kids. Let them gain respect for you through your actions, and then they will come to you when they need advice. They will look to you for strength because their mom is an emotional basketcase. (all WAW are) But if you are manipulative, you will lose them over time. Time brings about truth. Patience, consistency, and faith are the ways of the man who brings his children into a better place because of divorce.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks D2H, i needed that kick in the butt.

Part of the current situation happend because of our different personalities. She's a type A and 'am a type B, a lot of it happend because after our S was born she expected different from me, to step up to the plate, more alpha and more proactive in the family decisions, i didn't, or maybe i did. Some of nice guy síndrome?, maybe, not quite, big problema is i didn't do or acted as she expected, i'm my own person, and 'am much more relaxed human being, not as stresfull and structured as X, she couldn't deal with it, her problem. Of course she didn't say anything back then because she expected me to "figure it out" myself, anyway that is in the past.

I do admit that i have let her control the situation so far, first out of guilt and then trying to get her back. No more. Saturday and sundeay when we had the discussion about her not wanting me to take our son to that trip out of town, i never back down, NEVER. I said, i don't care, i'm picking him up at 10 on sunday and taking him there. The sneaky person she is wouldn't confront me, she waited until late at night to send me a text saying No. of course i kept my cool and rebutted her dumb arguments and stood my ground. The next day she texted me before 7 AM. You know why?, she wanted to see if i was hung over or something, of course i wasn't. I stopped getting drunk long time ago, matter of fact i quit beer, which was an issue sometimes before. Only a couple of glasses of wine.

I never responded her text, then she texted again asking about the activity i was taking my S3 to. She had to concede. So yes, you are right, when i have stood my ground in a Smart, calm collected way she had to step back.

I will continue this path, i will not concede an inch for my son, but i will fight the Smart fight, pick my battles wisely and let my lawyer handle the rest.

Skill:

Thanks for the suggestion, i will do that, i like that idea. I do miss him too much, specially at night. Sometimes i think about this situation and can't grasp to understand his mother's selfishness. I try to put myself in her shoes and for me, even if i fell out of love with somebody it would be very hard for me to just remove or take that person's presence out of my son's live. IDK, the mind of a WAW or WWH with small children is something i can't comprehend. I'm not focusing on her or her actions and i do understand a WAW or H after 20, 25 years, but having kids that Young and doing what she's doing for her selfish reasons i just don't finish understanding.

I did talk to a friend of ours, the G of my W best friend and my son's godfather who has been obviously on her side and kind of enabler of her, but this female friend had an interesting opinión on what she's doing because she went thru the same with her first H, went thru a personality crisis regarding her career and though "the grass was going to be greener" and started blameshifting on her H and had toxic influences of friends one that was going thru a D herself. She said that she regretted her decisión years later but there was nothing that she could do and said that she believes my W is going thru the same, personality crisis, not being at the place she wants to be in her life and of course "blaming" me for it. I believe Chuck71 mentioned something like that. And i do agree, funny thing is she said her boyfriend (W best friend), thinks the same, of course he won't tell her-.


Anyway, enough of that, got to make the most out of this situation and find ways to improve myself, be a better man and father. One good thing is that i have given up drinking like i used to and i like that about myself. Looking at bussiness oportunities and branching out and doing other things.

This weekned that i don't have my son i will go to a spiritual withdrawal (i don't know how you say that in english), it's like a spiritual gathering that a friend invited me that i believe will do me good.

I have my S3 for the afternoon and of course i'm looking forward to that.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Dedicated2Her said:


> This sounds manipulative and like you are trying to prove to your son how special he is through words. It's ok. I used to think like this. Read "Letters from Dad" by Greg Vaughn. It will give you a much more concrete way to do things if you are into showing your kids later on what your journey looked like.
> 
> Personally, I am so thankful for my divorce. In anything in life, you have to have gratefulness. Embrace the pain that you are going through and allow God to strengthen you. Pain is good. It will help make you the man you were created to be if you allow it to and act on it. You can use it to flush out weakness.
> 
> Want to prove to your children how to live and how good of a dad you are? Act it out.....every single day. Treat your STBX how you want to be treated. Be honorable. Fight for what is right. Be a mentor to your kids. Let them gain respect for you through your actions, and then they will come to you when they need advice. They will look to you for strength because their mom is an emotional basketcase. (all WAW are) But if you are manipulative, you will lose them over time. Time brings about truth. Patience, consistency, and faith are the ways of the man who brings his children into a better place because of divorce.


Great advice D2H, i want to write Little notes for my S3, but not to show them to him, but to keep 'em in writing how i feel. If one day when he's older he wants to read them i'll show him.

I do not want to maipulate hih and i will never ever talk bad about his mother to him. I want him to love and be loved by both of us. i want him to be the best man that he can be and i will be there 100% every step of the way. I didn't have a father growing up, so i know the feeling.

I will set an example to him with my behaviour, my actions. don't really care what the WAW thinks, i care what he thinks of me. Your words yesterday about me becoming a puppet in the hands of his mother resonated with me, my sister had told me about this before. Unless a big change of heart, mind and soul happen to her because of God's intervention i don't see a chance of us ever working together. Either i would try and do everything to make it work (and resenting myself and her for being a doormat) or i ould be so resentful that i would engage with her and WWIII would happen.

I have my path ahead of me, she has hers. This is my low point, my blow, my 2 x 4 in life, i've been awaken by this. I can't get any lower and there's no rock bottom lower for me tan this. She has yet to hit her's, and when she does, and she will believe me i won't be thankful or happy but she will understand the consequences of her actions and what she has done (tearing a family apart and trying to have me not as involved or included in S3 life). we only learn thru mistakes and pain and we need to see that. She hasn't, she thinks this is all my fault and doesn't see he own mistakes and wrongdoings.

My S is the most important thing in my life and i will live always with that in my mind.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

As far as your son, she wanted you to be an alpha

well....... with D looming..... she got the alpha 

secretly she loves it, outwardly she condemns it

watch what she does not what she says

stay at 50k feet and observe Padawan


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

D2H - the idea wasn't meant to be manipulative. It was actually given to me by a friend years ago when my son was first born but I never really did it, just a few letters. But I liked the idea. So now that I was writing a lot more and hurting over everything and missing my son, it just made sense so I did it.

It wasn't until about halfway through doing this that I downloaded a book about how a dad can win custody of their child. That is when I saw the potential value (whether it was unwanted or not) in what I had already been doing.

At that point, my focus was my son. I would do whatever it took to get custody...I made that clear to her...that I didn't want the divorce to begin with but that if she insisted, I definitely wasn't going to give up half my son's life because of a divorce I didn't want, without a fight and a court's order.

Fortunately now we are in the process of R and it is going well. My son still doesn't want me to leave, ever, so I know we have a solid relationship. I always want him to know that I love(d) his mom and sisters...even in the hard times.

Anyway, keep up the good work Reg. You made comments about not knowing this side of your wife...I know exactly what you mean. But, if you stay your course...become the man you are on track to becoming, stay consistent...the side of your wife that you used to know...it can still be there. She has built walls so high you can't even see "her" anymore. That doesn't mean they can't some day come down...either in a "life-changing" epiphany or slowly a brick at a time. 

I wish I could guarantee it, I can't. I just know it can happen. Be strong, be firm but keep the hurtful words and her ability to see you hurting, at a minimum. They don't do any good.

Glad to see you have plans this weekend! It helps. You are doing really well, given the situation. 

Do you have XM radio there? Either way, I listened, and still do, to Joel Osteen a lot. He helped, too.

Stay strong, get stronger, we'll keep praying and encouraging you.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Billy Graham would be my choice

I can't trust pastor's with pearly white teeth 

and a $40 million dollar home

call me a cynic.....


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

He is rich, but he also helps millions and funds a lot of good programs. You can't do that without money so I guess I'd rather him have it than a Scrooge.

But I'm all for Billy Graham, too. Completely.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> D2H - the idea wasn't meant to be manipulative. It was actually given to me by a friend years ago when my son was first born but I never really did it, just a few letters. But I liked the idea. So now that I was writing a lot more and hurting over everything and missing my son, it just made sense so I did it.
> 
> It wasn't until about halfway through doing this that I downloaded a book about how a dad can win custody of their child. That is when I saw the potential value (whether it was unwanted or not) in what I had already been doing


I agree it's a good idea when faced with a traditional family situation, however, a divorce is not a traditional family situatioin. The rules change. Saying things like "especially if she didn't have something similar" talks to your mindset... 

Personally, I think it should always be 50/50 split. I didn't fight my ex and took 2 days and every other weekend. Best decision I ever made. It, amongst many other things has made her look really bad, and now I have full custody of my 13 year old son by his choice. I'm sure my 7 year old will join him with us full time in a few years. The two girls will always probably stick with the current schedule.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

It did become a mindset to a degree after I read the book. It teaches you to change your mindset because your goal has changed. 

I think the spouse who doesn't leave the family should have the option of one extra day with the kids vs the one that chose their own self interests over their family. Of course things like abuse would obviously play their own role.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Hey all, i've been in a good mood the last couple of days, much more positive. Been looking also at outside options to advance my career, i believe the time has come to do something different, been kind of stale at my current job for awhile (that was part of the problem in my M as i became depressed a few years ago and that affected my perspective on everything including M).

Spending time with my son has been incredible, really enjoying that. Still not spending the night with me, but we will get to that son.

Our apartment has been on sale for some time now and our D is pending on that really; i offered to buy my X share of the apartment last week if we do not get a fair offer on the condo after sometime, i'm the most interested on the sale, since i need to find a new place, X is still living in a bubble as her situation hasn't changed much since the separation but will after she has to move back to her parents once the condo sells. Shock reality. My situation from where i'm standing and looking can only get better, unlike hers.

Two week ago i got into an argument via text with X regarding her not letting my son spend the night with me and giving me excuses, i got tired of it and told her if i needed to move back to the apartment so i can spend the night with my son, if so i would do it right away, no answer as always and i said i would talk to my lawyer, which i did and the whole child custody and visitation proposal is at the court right now (things in our country take forever to get processed.

My X has become paranoid and in need of attention. The other day i went to our apartment to get some pictures from the computer and i found out a Whatssup message log she had with her best friend and godfather to our son (friend of mine also, but not lately, he's been taking her side obviously), and it went something like this:

This is two weeks old
X: look what he has on his Whatsupp profile, he keeps on threathening me, he's agressive and 'am scared. I am waiting for my lawyer's response. I am ready to go to the authoroities.

BFF: All i see is a picture of him with S3

X: yeah he took that pic yesterday afternoon, but look what he was written as his "status" on what's up

I had written "In adversity you see someone's true character", meaning that NOW that we are going thru this i have seen my X's true colors (and they are despicable and disapointing). I did not write the last part just the quote.

BFF: he starts Reading my status: "In adversity, yada, yada, yada"

And then she forwards him a conversation we had two days before where i said to her after telling her that i was going to use the bathroom at our place and she giving me a "look" and rolling her eyes that "i would apreciate if we will treat each other with respect and that if i needed to use the guest bathroom at OUR place she wouldn't give me bad looks. She answered: "Whatever....i did not disrespect you".

She then forwarded him the text Exchange we had about me wanting to have my son sleep over and if not i would have to move back to our place so he could spend the night with me.

She then forwards her BFF another text Exchange between us where i sent her the account number for our son's account so she could deposit the money from the plane ticket she was going to use to go to a seminar in the US that i had paid.

She then says to BFF:
He (me) doesn't know how to manage his anger and is trying to put this on me, i feel harrased"

BFF: Inmaturity on his part

X: You are right

BFF: He should learn to manage his anxiety, don't concede to his threats and disrespect.

A few hours later:

BFF: Any news?

X: No, just peace, let's see what happens when he (me) gets off from work

BFF: O.K.

Later:

X: I haven't Heard from him, this make sme uneasy, i think he's up to something. I don't know if he's been to the apartment.

BFF:Maybe you bshould put cameras in there.

X: Great idea.

Bear in my mind i have every legal right to go back to the apartment anytime i want, but being in the middle of the legal process is best if i keep my cool.

Later:

BFF: Nothing?

X: No, i'm taking off from my mom with S3 and off to the apartment, IDK, i got this weird feeling, he's up to something, my dad is going to follow me home, just in case.

BFF, Good, but i don't think anything is going to happen

Later:

X: he (me) called S3 just a few minutes ago, he didin't sound very good

BFF: Drunk or sad?

X: Sad, i think he was depressed, he was sniffing.

I was kind of sad when i called my son that night.

So there you go. 

I haven't told her amnything about us in almost two months, no intents to R or anything. All conversations have been about S3, legal matters, money, visitation rights and the apartment.

I have never ever threathen her, insulted her or in any way put her safety in jeopardy.

I know she saves all the texst messages from me to see if i'm dumb enough to say something that compromises me.

As you can see, her BFF (best frind from kindergarden) is enabling her, toxic or not, he's enabling her paranoid victim mentality.

This friend's (supposely friend of mine) GF and i ahd a long conversation about my X the other day. She thinks she has a personality crisis regarding her frustration with her profesional life and is taking all of that into me (blameshifting and i am responsable for her unhappiness and all), she says that from what her BF (My X BFF has told her) and because she also went thru that in her first M and that later she regretted.

Curious thing is her BF told her that he also thinks that of my X and that hopefull she won't lose me. WTF. This is not what he's been telling my Ex, he's enabling her, like many in her life in the last 6 months. Anyway, i really don't care about all of this drama.

God knows what she told her dad about me threathening her so that he followed her that night. Funny because a week after this i went to drop off my son at X parents and he was really nice and cordial with me, making jokes and going out of his way to say hi to me. Also yesterday i had a chat with X mother for the first time in months (mainly about S3) and she was also very cordial and even touching me (no, not in that way, just making physical contact) and X dad was also very cordial and talking about sports with me (which we haven't done since all of this started), very strange.

Anyway, i'm off from all the drama concerning X and her dillusions and persecution complex. Next week is the court hearing regarding child support, let's see how that pans out.

Have a good one all.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

The Three Faces of Victim – An Overview of the Drama Triangle


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

She's a "victim" all right.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

when you take off the blinders, everything seems to make sense doesn't it?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Yeah. But i dont understand why is she going thru my Whatsupp status to see what i post? Shouldnt she be indiferent to anything about me? Plus feeling threathen by something likebthat is really pushing it.

Found out today she still or went backnto IC hope it helpsnher.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Regretf said:


> Yeah. But i dont understand why is she going thru my Whatsupp status to see what i post? Shouldnt she be indiferent to anything and everything about me? She`s looking for things to get offended and twisting things for her "poor me" persona convinience.Plus feeling threathen by something likebthat is really pushing it.
> 
> Found out today she is still or went back to IC hope it helps her.


Explain it to me like 'am a five year old.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

she condones the very same behavior she exhibits

should this really surprise you? 

watch what they do, not what they say


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

I think her wall is starting to crack. I'm happy for you. I know what that little crack can mean...like a little breath of fresh air after almost suffocating from the hurt, anger and confusion.

Stay strong but stay positive. She is just a person like we are but sometimes fear and hurt and feeling like your all alone when you initially believed you found what you has been looking for to prevent ever feeling that way again...it can make people do crazy things. So don't you be the one to do crazy things. 

There is a member on here...I think it is JLD, who promoted a technique called "active listening." It helps. Read up on it and apply as you continue to grow stronger as an individual. 

You may end up with one more chance to be the leader of your family. I pray for that opportunity for you. 

Even if you get it, it won't be automatic blue skies...more like...blue-gray, and it will vary within that color combination for a while, hopefully becoming more blue slowly with time. Slowly being the key word. I still struggle with that. But I'm back with my family. I can work with that. My son loves to be hugged by both of us at the same time. He has always been able to tell when things are off and when they are on.

Stay on. For yourself. For your family. You are the leader.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

When you start Zs second blog, the real learning begins.....

it is a blue print


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It is JLD. I will ask her to follow this thread. 

FWIW, she was (and still is) a huge help to me in healing the relationship between myself and my spouse.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> When you start Zs second blog, the real learning begins.....
> 
> it is a blue print


I'm still on his first thread, i'm on page 110 i believe. Will do some more Reading this weekend.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I had a great weekend. A friend of mine that's been counseling me regarding spiritual faith and getting me closer to God invited me to a spiritual retreat, but it wasn't your typical spiritual retreat where you pray and all, but it was one where you worked in small groups and you touch on different subjects and express what has been hurting you. Never knew it would be so easy to open up to strangers, of course, they don'y know you so they don't judge. it was like a weekend therapy for me and listening to people's problems and hurts and being there for them, comforting them, praying for them and them doing the same for me was very cathartic. made some great friends in that place and will continue to meet with the group at the church on wednesday.

My son wasn't with me on the weekend, he was with his maternal grandparents on their farm and he had a great time, which is the mlst important thing. Him mom is still on a seminar at Florida and will be back tomorrow, haven0't spoken or texted with her, which is for the best. Surprisingly i have been having good comunication and relationship with my inlaws (ex), was tempted to talk to my father in law(X) great guy about THE SITUATION, but decided not too, i don't know. There are days that i wish we could work somehting out the X and i and others where i just KNOW this is the best and that we are not compatible or too many things have happend and there's too much resentment on both sides for it to work out.

We put the condo on sale and some people have gone to look at it, one couple went with my brother and sieter in lawy yesterday and really liked it. Two more are going to today and i will be showing them the place. This makes me sich to my stomach to have to get rid of our apartment, so many memories, and remembering my son taking his first steps, crawling or his first words there breaks my heart. But...it is what it is. There seems to be no other way right now so.

On wednesday we have the court hearing on child support and i will meet with my lawyer today to discuss strategy and get our plan together.

Have a great week everybody and thanks for Reading.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm glad to hear you are moving forward. I know this is tough but you'll get through it. It takes time so be patient (I wasn't patient and it was very frustrating at times --- I remember wishing I could fast-forward and reach the other side more quickly but that obviously didn't happen). Take lots of deep breaths and let them out slowly (I did that a lot and it really did help me focus).


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Openminded said:


> I'm glad to hear you are moving forward. I know this is tough but you'll get through it. It takes time so be patient (I wasn't patient and it was very frustrating at times --- I remember wishing I could fast-forward and reach the other side more quickly but that obviously didn't happen). Take lots of deep breaths and let them out slowly (I did that a lot and it really did help me focus).


I am. A friend gave me an advice not to engage with X, not to fight, not to fall into her traps, to pick out my battles wisely. And that's what i've been trying. Will be hard after wednesday, but have to keep moving forward. Sometimes i look back at our M and can't believe we are at his place right now. Amazing how much anger and resentment has been built because of this situation, how much hurt has been inflicted both ways.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

The anger and resentment, at the right time, can still be resolved. It can melt away...in chunks at a time maybe, not all at once, but it can.

Glad you had a great weekend. You are on the right track. Proud of you!


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Long update on the craziness:

X was away for a few days on a seminar, i spent time with S3, surprisingly to me MIL has been very nice to me and talkative, which she hasn't in a long time, FIL too but him and i always had a good relationship.

On wednesday was the court hearing for child support, my lawyer and X lawyer both presented their evidence and receipts. X and i sat next to each other outside for maybe 30-40 minutes and made small talk.

Them lawyers came out and my lawyer informed me that the judge would not let either lawyer knock down the other lawyers evidence or receipts and bills and she would make a veredict on the final ammount son. They will investigate how much money i make on my university Jobs (side thing i have after work which i have never denied).

On the otehr hand X never admited the extra money she maks on the side as physical therapist to her patients (more on that later). According to her lawyer my 3 and a half son monthly expenses are $1193 (yeah i know) and since i make more money than her on my regular job and university Jobs i should cover $800 and she the rest.

Her ***** lawyer said that while i contribute to paying the apartment X and son live all by myself plus his scholl, i only "ocasionally" support him on his other expenses, which is a lie since i pay for half of all his expenses and i have all the transfers i've made to her.

Judge asked if X let's me see my son, my lawyer replied" Not enough", she lets mih take him to the park like a puppy and can't spend the night with him. X lawyer replied "that's because H (me) doesn't have a stable home, which as i have told you is BS. So the judge ordered a visit to my son's house and my btoher's house where i live.

Now the good part. My X never presented how much money she makes on the side as a physical therapist with her patients, she could make up to $1,000 a month, and it's usually around $700-800 which brings our salaries pretty much even. So i had gone into OUR apartment one day and found and old receipt book of hers from last year, detailing payments made to her by her patients for 7 months, and the average per month is somewhere around 800-900 bucks. I made copies of it and gave it to my lawyer who presented it as evidence much to the surprise of the judge. X lawyer tried to downplay it saying that was only ocasional income.

X called me after the hearing saying that what i had done was a low blow, and that i had no idea how she charged her patients, i said, well your lawyer asked for my extra income from the universities i teach so we are even.

Several people have come to see the apartment that we have on sale, one is very interested and ready to put an offer, so hopefully that will get the ball moving. I said to X that if the offer is good we should take it, we have to, she said that she wants to see if we have a better offer. Of course i said, this is not your call, you are the one living with S3 and in the apartment so we have to set a time limit of two months, this cannot wait.

Yesterday i went to pick up my son in the afternoon and instead of me coming up and picking him up and the door of the apartment, she went down to meet me at the entrance of the building (you see where this is going), when i came back she did the same, dumb woman doesn't know that S3 will pick this up and know things are weirder between us. She asked me for the keys to our apartment, since she has to leave this weekend and deosn't trust me going into the apartment (very pissed about the receipt book i took) i said no way, this is my apartment too, so forget it, we almost got into an argument with s3 present so i walked away.

This morning asked me for the keys again i said No, and she walked away. later texted me saying she'd appreciate it i will not make appointments for clients to see the apartment if she's not there, i didn't answer.

This woman is making things more complicated that they have to be, and this is getting ridiculous. The amount of resentment and anger she has because i have not bent over to her princess wishes is incredible. I wonder is this the woman i married?, amazing what tough situations do to people, bring out the worst in them.

I have continued with my preaching group and chat with them everyday, that is making me stronger, though yesterday was a tough day for me. Thinking about my s3 and what he has to endure makes me sad and angry. The selfishness of this woman is beyond everything i have seen. Only cares about her feelings. And what she wants, don't even think she's thinking about our son right now.

Have a great weekend all.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Can you secretly record her, so you have evidence of her behavior? The good thing about your son being only 3 is, he won't remember this turbulent time, and his brain is plastic enough to adjust. If this continues on when he gets older, you should seek therapy on his behalf. Also, if she is withholding visits, document it, gather evidence, and save it for your lawyer. Do not let her know that your doing this. Also, if she has anger issues, and you can prove it, perhaps a judge can make her seek anger management. I suggest you quit all the small talk as well. The less verbal contact, the better. If she confronts you, record her and walk away without saying anything, and do not engage.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Can you secretly record her, so you have evidence of her behavior? The good thing about your son being only 3 is, he won't remember this turbulent time, and his brain is plastic enough to adjust. If this continues on when he gets older, you should seek therapy on his behalf. Also, if she is withholding visits, document it, gather evidence, and save it for your lawyer. Do not let her know that your doing this. Also, if she has anger issues, and you can prove it, perhaps a judge can make her seek anger management. I suggest you quit all the small talk as well. The less verbal contact, the better. If she confronts you, record her and walk away without saying anything, and do not engage.


Well i will try.She's not stupid and won't say anything that will compromise her. That's the sad part, about my son, she doesn0't see the damage that she can do. I hope i won't have to take him to therapy later. this is upsetting.

She's not witholding visits but won't let my son spend the night with me. The judge will take care of that, of course she will try to put all the dirt on me that she can. It's sad and pitiful that she has to come to this all because of a "power trip" and her overbearing attitude towards s3, overprotective which to a point i understand, but not like this. We are in for a long war, but it is because she expected me to lay low and accept her dumb offers. She wanted a D without consequences, she has yet to face any, but she will. I have a 6 month advantage on her over this.

I do belive she will have to get anger management in the future. I look at her and yet i don't see her "happy" i was suppose to be the cause of her "unhappiness", oh well, this unhappiness is on her not me, someday she will realice that.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Notice her victim speak..... she always directs it at you

she hopes to throw crumbs to you and you treat it like a cake

this has been her behavior since before DDay....right?

This should not surprise you at all.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Notice her victim speak..... she always directs it at you
> 
> she hopes to throw crumbs to you and you treat it like a cake
> 
> ...


Hey Chuck,

Was waiting for you to appear. Yeah she's a victim alright, everything is about her. She must think she's the queen of Denmark and since she walks on wáter i should praise her every step of the way.

Yes, it's been this way since DDay and it doesn't surprise me, though her selfishness amazes me.

Sincé we are in two legal processes right now it would not be wise for me to make my way back into the apartment. She could plead abuse and i could get a restraining order and make it hard for me to spend time with my son, yes, i believfe she can do that.

her aunt was telling my mom the other day that she has told her to "move back to her parents" and leave the apartment alone, that it's not OK what she's doing. Her response "I don't want to get accused of home abandonement", which makes me think she has thought of that possibility with me. But since i'm one step ahead i went to city hall and gave them a letter explaining the situation and they said that as long as i have personal belongings (clothes) in the apartment that is not considered home abandonement, plus i keep paying the apartment, 'cause she could pull this card out.

Her initial thoughts when she proposed the D 4 motnhs ago was:

I was gonna let her buy me out for 10-15 K. Don't really know what she was thinking.

Going to give me a $800 a month child support bill, yeah for a three year old.

Let me see my kid only 18 hours a month, crazy, selfish sheel of a person, don't let me spend the night with him until i had my own place (how quickly she forgets that the place she's living is paid by me and that the court will let me excersize my right to spend the night with my son.

So nothing so far has panned out like she "thought" it would., she really, really understimated me.

By the way Chuck i'm moving along on Zillard's thread, don't know why i get the feeling his old lady will turn around and get her head out of her a## at one point.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

OP, I am sorry you are in this difficult place in your life.

I think it might help you to keep in mind that very often, divorce is contentious and difficult. It is known to bring out the worst in people. 

In other words, try not to take things personally. She has likely been advised to ask for the moon; it is like a job interview, you ask for more than you expect to get and negotiate. It is strategic.

I know that you really did not want to end up here. Believe it or not, she probably did not want to end up here either. You are both hurt and angry. 

Clearly you can't control here and it won't help you IMO to focus on her, her wrongs, her 'princess' attitude, etc.

You can only control yourself. You can focus on your work to become a better man. If you're reading Z's thread, you'll see that he was very focused on becoming a better person. He tried to consider all of his thoughts, all of his actions, on how a person with integrity, honesty, clarity would think or act. He was rigorous and thorough with this. 

Even when he was saddened, angered, and/or surprised by his wife's actions, he worked very hard to avoid the self-pitying, self-righteous anger found in your response below.

Look man, we are all human. The thoughts and feelings below are what many of us would feel in your shoes. I am not trying to condemn you for them.

I just mean to point out that great adversity is also an opportunity for increased growth and awareness. 




Regretf said:


> Hey Chuck,
> 
> Was waiting for you to appear. Yeah she's a victim alright, everything is about her. She must think she's the queen of Denmark and since she walks on wáter i should praise her every step of the way.
> 
> ...


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

I agree with the above post. As much as you may want to and as much as you are justified in doing so, keep taking the higher ground. Give her no reason to make her feel unsafe and feed into her currently warped outlook. Not because she may not deserve it, it just won't do you any good except to keep going the same direction you are now.

It sounds like you are seeing glimpses of your old wife, the one you used to know. Focus on her...that one, for now. Even if you don't get back together it will make the rest of the future better hopefully...but if you were to get back together, it won't be because you put her in her place...unless it is a place of safety and respect. No easy task.

You're a good man, just keep up your best work and it will work out like it should.

Take care, Brother


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> . . . keep taking the higher ground. Give her no reason to make her feel unsafe . . .
> 
> . . .but if you were to get back together, it won't be because you put her in her place...unless it is a place of safety and respect.


:iagree:


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks for the replies.

Rose,

You are right. I should stop the self pity and self righteous anger. I get frustrated sometimes, this is very hard and being apart from my S3 is difficult. Im trying to make the most of it and become a better man, it's my journey, but the journey is long and i have a long way to go before i get to that place of peace of mind.

I know i shouldnt concentrate so much on her attitude and actions, it dissapoints me that we have to make this so difficult specially with a small child involved.

Regarding him i'm being patient, and him not sleeping nights with me, i stopped pushing that, the judge will decide that soon so no point in going around that.

Skill,

As always thanks for your words and friendship, you are right i should take the high road and earn respect with that no intimidating or threaths. I have no desire to make her fell unsafe or disrespected, but i wont give an inch regarding my son, that is not negotiable. She is the one that wanted this D in the first place and she and I should deal with the consequences of our actions-

Thanks for following my thread JDL. I will continue reading Z's thread this weeknd. The strenght on that guy, but it's easier when you have your child with you, that is th part i'm having most difficulty with.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

One other thing, i hope she doesn't make the selling of the apartment difficult, we might get an offer next week so, im the one that has more rush to sell it as i have no place of my own right now, my own stuoidity yes i know.

I dont want this to become a war, i really dont.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You never wanted any thing to get ugly. She wanted you to lay down and 

let her walk all over you. When you stood up to her, she got angry.

That is HER problem. When you do not do as she wishes, she is using 

S3 to punish you. A prudent mother would still wish their son to see his father.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

i get to see my S3 but still no sleeping over. You are right about she expected me to lay low.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Like many have suggested i have taken the high road and decided not to get into arguments or engage with X. This morning i went to pickup my son and take him to school, i said "good day", don't know if i got any anwer from her. When i dropped him i texted her as usual to say that he arrived fine and that i will see him tuesday and wednesday as well as this easter weekend as it was my right (we have hafl thursday and friday off here in our country. I got no answer. Typical, no distress i will continue my path and getting that bond tighter with my son which is the main thing here.

Hopefully we will get an offer on the apartment this week so we can move on. She might obstruct the sale saying she wants a higher offer, anything we get over XXXX is good enough. If we get an offer that's good enough and she gets stupid i would say "either you buy me out, which you can't, i buy you out which i can to certain extent or we take this offer, if you want to wait for a higher offer, then you move out to your mom's and i move back into the apartment while we wait", of course she won't like this but i've had it, my patience has been testedt for over six motnhs and she can't have everything her way. Feel bad for my dear son to be caught in all of this, it's unfourtunate that we have come to this. I never wanted it in the first place, but in a way she has set the tone saving all our text conversations since october lloking for ways to inciminate me, or making me look like a threat to her or unreliable as a parent, you don't do that, specially as i haven't screwed her over or taken advantage of her. Seems like she wanted to have all ducks in a row and looking to find ways to have the upper hand.

No problema, i will continue improving and becoming a better person/father. What she does now is her problem.

I have IC today, that should be interesting.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

IC went well yesterday and had a AHA momento with therapist.

Told her all the craziness that's been going and the way W has been acting with all the anger and resent she feels towards me which i sometimes still don't quiet understand, after all she is the one that wants to divorce me. My therapist gave me quite an interesting theory: She believes my W feels that she put up with me a lot in the M and that she sacrificed herself putting with a lot of crap in her mind and that also as she has told me she feels as i "deceived her", "tricked" her into believing i was a certain way and then in the M found out i was something else, so she now believes that she's entitled to a lot of things as a payback for her "years of sacrifice and all she put up with" therefore she expected me to lay down and accept the 15K she offered me for my share of the apartment and that i should have accepted with no fighting the $800 she wants for child support for our S3 plus i should have not fought or arguee with her for the time she "offered" for spending time with my son, which doesn't include spending the night with me.

As i have not laid down she's upset with me not making the D easy or amicable, of course i have also my interest to look after and she wants to hurt me and "making me pay" for not being the best H and i would guess "wasting" her time. Obviously we were in two different marriages as i don't feel it was like that, but that is her visión and opinión of things.

Talking to my sister in law yesterday after my IC she said that she felt that we didn't have enough love, that we didn't developed our love and that's why it fell out so quickly. Told her that W didn't try enough but she said that she probably thinks in her mind that she tried and since i as distant in the latter part of the M, X felt like i didn't care enough and since i didn't "do" anythign she wasn't going to to anything either, and love went sour.

Now looking back she's probably right, and i see my faults in the M, my mistakes and shortcomings, W doesn't want to admit hers, as in her mind i'm 90% responsible, a shame really.

We failed, we failed our S in providing him with an intact family unit as we let our egoes and pride get in the way, he deserved better, unfourtunately there's no time machine and we can't go back. Now i will have to be the best father i can be and be there always for him.

Tough lesson learned.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi Regretful, 

I wanted to get back to your thread earlier. This is some good, deep stuff in your post. 




Regretf said:


> IC went well yesterday and had a AHA momento with therapist.
> 
> Told her all the craziness that's been going and the way W has been acting with all the anger and resent she feels towards me which i sometimes still don't quiet understand, after all she is the one that wants to divorce me. My therapist gave me quite an interesting theory: *She believes my W feels that she put up with me a lot in the M and that she sacrificed herself putting with a lot of crap in her mind and that also as she has told me she feels as i "deceived her", "tricked" her into believing i was a certain way and then in the M found out i was something else...*


I think your therapist is bang on with the bold.

Earlier I posted that your wife very likely did not want to end up divorced, either. I doubt that she got married to you thinking, "Oh yes, in 5 years I will leave him and start all over again, this time with a son whose family will be broken." 

On your wedding day, don't you think she was happy and excited and in love? Do you think she hoped for a wonderful future with you? That you would love and support each other? That she could trust you, that you would protect her heart, that it would be you and her against the world?

This isn't what happened. It didn't pan out this way. You were not trustworthy, as it turns out. You did not protect her heart. You were not the person you told her you were.

So yes, she is angry with you. She didn't want to end up here, either. 



> ... so she now believes that she's entitled to a lot of things as a payback for her "years of sacrifice and all she put up with" therefore she expected me to lay down and accept the 15K she offered me for my share of the apartment and that i should have accepted with no fighting the $800 she wants for child support for our S3 plus i should have not fought or argued with her for the time she "offered" for spending time with my son, which doesn't include spending the night with me.


I posted earlier that it might help you if you can try to stop figuring out her motives for the things she is asking for in divorce. Even if your thoughts on why she is doing this is true, I am not sure it will help you get to the place where you want to go: being a better man. In fact, ruminating on how someone has wronged you will take you in the exact opposite direction of where you want to go. 

You cannot control what someone else does; all you can do is decide how you want to react to it, what kind of person do you want to be in relation to the situation. For instance, regardless of why she wants to prevent your son from staying with you overnight, all you have to decide is: what you want to do in relation to that request?

You want to be a strong and involved father and so the answer is, it is not an acceptable request, and you will fight for more. 

If you are reading Zillard's thread, you are certainly hearing "Get to 50k feet." It is the same idea. Try to stop guessing at the other person's motive, it is irrelevant and completely outside your control. Act from your own decisions on who you are and what you want. 



> As i have not laid down she's upset with me not making the D easy or amicable, of course i have also my interest to look after and she wants to hurt me and "*making me pay" for not being the best H and i would guess "wasting" her time. Obviously we were in two different marriages as i don't feel it was like that, but that is her visión and opinión of things.*
> 
> Talking to my sister in law yesterday after my IC she said that she felt that we didn't have enough love, that we didn't developed our love and that's why it fell out so quickly.* Told her that W didn't try enough * but she said that she probably thinks in her mind that she tried and since i as distant in the latter part of the M,* X felt like i didn't care enough * and since i didn't "do" anything she wasn't going to to anything either, and love went sour.
> 
> Now looking back she's probably right, and i see my faults in the M, my mistakes and shortcomings, W doesn't want to admit hers, *as in her mind i'm 90% responsible*, a shame really.



IMO the bold is the most important part of your post.

Here is where there is a lot of hurt and subsequently the strongest opportunity for growth.

This is hard stuff.

Yes, I would bet my house that your wife absolutely does believe that you wasted her time. She feels that you tricked her when you married her. She thought she was getting a stable, honest, safe man. Instead of being her port in a storm, her partner against the world, you lied to her, were not reliable, you emotionally hurt her.

Honestly now. If you had started off the marriage as the man you are now, do you think you'd be facing divorce? If you had started off as a man who is honest and tells the truth, would she have reason to distrust you? If you started off as a man who doesn't get drunk but instead were the sober, reliable man you are today, would you be facing a divorce?

Are you in a better place today to be a strong, reliable, safe husband?

I think the answer to all of the above is- you ARE in a better place today to be a good husband. If you had started off this way your wife would trust you. You would not likely posting about getting a divorce. 

Do you agree?

There is a flip-side to this question.

If you feel that you could be better NOW, then does it also follow that you DID let down your wife earlier? Did you give your wife cause to feel lied to, unsafe, on her own? I think the answer is Yes you did. If you feel that you have come a long way- and I think you have- it means that you started off way behind.

And this is important. She is not divorcing you because she has terrible boundaries and she fell in love with someone else/cheated. She is not divorcing you because she feels she wasn't a good enough wife or because of her shortcomings.

When you say that she thinks 90% of the problem is you, I counter she is *100% divorcing because of you*, the old you, all of those trust/love-busting behaviors.

Let's go a step further.

I hear you saying "I see my faults." It has been followed up by "she has her faults too." That is all just a great big "BUT" , as in, "I hurt her BUT...."

"BUT" is a great big hand up. It is a conversation stopper. It tells your wife that you are not really listening to her, you are simply going to try defend yourself against her.

She is still not heard. She is not validated. You are more interested in defending and protecting yourself than trying to solve the problem. She is solving it by walking away. She figures that there is no way to move forward.

How can she ever feel that she is safe with you if you will not listen to her? How can she belief that you realize the hurt you've inflicted on her- you won't acknowledge it.* You keep trying to dodge it or minimize it.*

As a start, what she likely needs to hear, many times and without any other words, "* I am truly sorry for what I have done. I am sorry I lied and was not trustworthy. I am sorry I drank and was not reliable. I am sorry my weaknesses hurt you. I was not the husband you needed me to be."* 

When you can see and acknowledge and FEEL that yes, these were deeply wrong to do, and you own it, there will be no other BUT. 

Zillard did this- he thought deeply about his shortcomings in his marriage, and he apologized for them. He did this, even though his wife cheated on him. Some thought it was a sign of weakness. They felt that by apologizing he was giving legitimacy to what she did. I disagree. He knew that his weaknesses and shortcomings had nothing to do with his wife- they were all his to own. IMO he is a very strong human being, a very strong man. 

If you can accept that truly and honestly, your behavior was terrible, and you can express it to your wife, you just might become safe enough for her to open up to you, to begin to trust you again. Even if the divorce goes through. We've seen it happen on TAM.



> We failed, we failed our S in providing him with an intact family unit as *we let our egoes and pride get in the way,* he deserved better, unfortunately there's no time machine and we can't go back. Now i will have to be the best father i can be and be there always for him.
> 
> Tough lesson learned.


In the private section there is a thread where a WW had an opportunity to possibly restore her marriage, but failed. She failed because she did not acknowledge how painful her behaviors were to her husband. She was not open to making changes to protect her husband from further harm- how could she? She would need to understand the pain that she caused before she could reliably protect her husband from further hurt.

The husband recognized his WW's shortcomings. As much as he might have wanted to keep his family intact, he saw that if he wanted a sane, safe, stable life for himself and his son, he had to walk away. He is rightfully getting a lot of support for this very hard decision. He had done everything he could but the WW didn't own her stuff.

Regretful, don't be like that WW. You are not a wayward, but you are the person whose actions possibly fatally killed your marriage. You are on TAM and I think you go in and out of this understanding and this very painful, very difficult acknowledgement. 

Please understand- I am not saying that you should accept that you were some terrible person, that your wife is 100% right and perfect. 

I am suggesting that you put aside your pride and ego, and acknowledge that she has a right to a sane, safe, and stable life, and you were not providing that kind of life to her. Your behavior was very harmful to your wife. Your marriage did not survive it. 

You have come a long way and will go even further. You will never be that kind of husband, that kind of person, again.

Then go shine, show and demonstrate this new knowledge, this new understanding. 

Stop fighting with her. Stop arguing and telling people "she gave up. She expects me to give in." etc. You can simply say, "I didn't want this. It is what it is" or if it is someone close to you, "I didn't want this. I had some growing up to do." Stop blaming her. 

Stand up for the terms you want in the divorce, but try to avoid the anger and the resistance, the "how dare she?!?!" feelings. They do not help you in any way. 

This is a time of great emotion and adversity. This means that it is also time where you can showcase your new strength. 

No one knows that the future holds. It could be entirely over between you and your wife. It might not be entirely over.

But one thing is for sure. Nothing good can happen between you and your wife unless and until you become a better man. Keep going. You are going to have to demonstrate time and time and time again that you are a changed man if you have a hope in reuniting with your wife.

And even if you don't reunite with your wife, you will become a man who is capable of being a calm, safe, honest, reliable husband for another woman. It's a win-win.

I know I wrote a book here. I feel like this was a difficult post, but I am cheering you on.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You can't fix her..... even if you did, what is the end product?

Once you play Mr. Fixer, that is an eternity job

Work on you, S3, her needs are not on you radar


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

I think aGlow is spot on. You and I have pretty similar stories. I think this goes to a very good core of your situation...because it did mine.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Rose.

Thanks for your long insight. Yes you are right on so many counts. A lot of inmaturity has played a bignpart on the failings of my M. I own all ofbthat and ibhave apologized many times to her for thebhurt i caused her, in person and in writting. Of course it wasntn enough. She doesnt trust me or cares at this point. Sadly im getting into the direction of not caring anymore. Too much hurt. she has tried to engage with me and i have taken thebhigh road and turn around and not fight.

Example. i have been texting her to ask about my sons doctor appointment wich i believe was yesterday. She doesnt answer. Today the same. I said i will like tobbe involved in my sons live and notnjust be a weekend dad. Also you havent told mr about his appointnment and if you have bought anything for him and need mybhalf ofbthe $. No answer.

When i went to pick him up, she now waits for me with S3 down in the building, instead ofbbefore when i went in the building and met him at the apartment door. So i tell her i texted you todaybto ask abiut S3, why dont you answer back? Very calmy i did this. She says "if im not with hin i dont have to answer your texts, we need to find another way to comunicate because i cant be answering your texts everyday, unless its an emergency.

I said. I texted you to ask about him, not anything else. She then said, you bug me. I bug you i answered. I shook mybhead and left.

So yeah i need a lot ofnpatience asbshe's becoming a PITA. She has her reasons. But this isbgetting out of hand. Whatever feelings ibhave for her are taking a slump.

I dont see a way of this working out ever. Im trying. I really am. But it is damn difficult.

we cant even have a conversation about S3. 

I know a big part of her resentment is because of my actions post separation as i have not lay down as i should have considering i cause her a lot of pain. I ownbthat and will forever be sorry. I want to put that man behind i really do, i cant afford to go back there. 

Rose. Right now i dont feelnlike apologizing any more than i alreadybhave. Im also in pain. I dont see my son as much as i woild like to. I dont get to kiss him goodnight or be there when he wakes up. there's no 50/50 custody here unless the mom screws up or allows it. Do i think i deserve all ofbthis? Yeah. To a point i do. I never put my sons life in danger or jeopardizedbit. Never loved him any less.

I lied. A lot of white stupid lies. Disxovered in IC thevcause of those. Chilhood issues. Havent told a lie since october. Im gettingbthere.

Alcohol was a big issue. Im working on that everyday. Handleling it better.

The mistakes i made with my W i will never make again. I will make others. Butbi will never neglect or makenmyself distant to another SO in my life.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You forgive yourself and move on. There is not a lot you can do but gain the wisdom from your experiences. Some people may never forgive you, and that is beyond your control and that is it. You can only try and not hurt another person again. This time you have more self-awareness of how your actions affect others. Some people go through life oblivious of their own issues. Your wife is punishing your son unknowingly to hurt you. Her anger makes her blind.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Not being difficult or argumentative is the approach i'm taking. Taking notes from what Rose, Chuck and Mr. Fisty posted yesterday i will not blame on her right now, she's acting out of anger and hurt and i get that.

This morning went to pick up my son, i was 10 minutes late, but so were them, she didn0't text me to say they were a bit late, neither did i, no problema. They come down she says good morning i reply, take my son and off we go.

When i'm approaching daycare she texts me saying i'd appreciate if you please tell me how was S3 when you drop him. She almost never does this, i always text her when i drop him to tell her that he (we) got to daycare just fine and then she says OK.

After her text (remember yesterday she didn't wanted to answer my texts about S3 and said i should have to answer texts about S3 if i'm not with him and we have to find another way to comunicate plus "you bug me"). So today i gently replied: "we just got there and he got off just fine", and of course no answer from her.

Forgot to say that after i texted her yesterday asking her if s3 had gone to the doctor and if she had bought anything for him and needed me to reimburse her i got no answer from her.

Later yesterday she texted me that she had gone to the supermarket and S3 bill was $$$. I texted back saying. When you can please send me the receipts, no answer.

This morning i transfered her the ammount, of course i won't text her, to get what, no answer again. It's childish that we have come to this, really, really mature.

Anyway i have a fun afternoon planned for son and I.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Yesterday was the lowest ofbthe low.

We had agreed longtime ago that my son was going to spend easter weekend with me from today until sunday. I had agreed to take him back everyday since the ***** of my Stbxw doesnt want him to spend the night with me yet.

I smell something fishy going on since thursday. Well yesterday afternoon the ***** sent me an email saying she had left for the countryside with son and her parents and since we dont have a written agreement signed by a judge i was going to see him next weekend. The ***** didnt even call or face me. My lawyer is out of town. But i sent her the email. Unfourtunately we have to wait for the custody hearing.

I called her mom and aunt since X wont answer phone. Neither picked up the phone. I have kept my cool as shes waiting for me to lose it and use that against me. No nasty replies. But a strong email.

I had planned a fun weekend with S3 and she disrespected that. Selfish *****
yesterday her and her family on enablers died for me.

Im expecting an offer on the apartment next week. We sell Now. If she puts up a fight i will move backninto my apartment and she can go back tobher parents where she should have never left.

I tell you i still dont understand how can somebody be so selfish. She used the excuse that S3 would get bored this weekebd here if he stayed in town as everything is closed today. That he ll have more fun in the countryside, when in reality she was not willing to stay the weekebd in town by herself and do nothing.

Thisnis it fornme. No sorry words or notes from me. This ***** is dead. I dont ever want to have tondo anything witb her in mh life. You can do whatever you want to me but my time with son is sacred and she disrespected that.

**** her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Get back to 50k feet and observe.....

did this honestly surprise you? Can you get S3 by talking to your FiL? For Easter?

She had this planned..... bet the farm. When you feel like he!! that is when you read

other's stories. How are you on Z's..... still on the 1st one? On the 2nd yet?

She knows she can push your buttons by manipulating your emotions.

Women like her are very good at that. Do not let her get to you.

I have always said if you want to see a wife's character show.... see if she uses

the kid(s) to screw with your heart strings. She showed her true colors.

This is who she really is........ without the mask.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I talked to S3 . She picks up the phone wjen she knows i call him.

No it doesnt surprise me. What stillnsurprise me isbher family of enablers. What she's doing is bad and nobody tells her anything. A ***** uses her son tobget back at her H because i did tookbher for granted. Grow the **** up *****.

Im on Zs second thread. Guy is very strong. W is a basket case.

Mine is a narcissist *****. Sometimes i think shes BPD.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

No, brother. She is not BPD. She just does not like you and treats you accordingly.

Here is your 2x4.

You are your problem at this point. She has shown you who she is, yet you keep expecting something different.

Expect the worst from her and she will never hurt you again.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Can you get S3 with help from police for Easter? That move was cold.

When she cries wanting to have a R, you remember schit like this.

Z traveled light years..... I am so f'ing proud of him

when you finish Zs three.... I have one more for you, one thread

about a guy in almost exact situation as you. This guy hasn't posted on TAM in

about a year but the advice, his struggles.... mirror yours a lot.

TAM vets lead newbies to the water. Up to them to drink.

You are drinking the water..... learning. Baby steps.... you'll get there


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I expect the worse from her. Anything. I dont want anything to do with her. My son is another issue. No i cannot accuse her of kidnapping ny son because theres nothing written from a judge.

She doesnt like me and i despise her. Hiw about that? Youd think she would accept the first damn offer for the apartment and get this done with. Whg drag this longer?

****. Youd think id left her for another woman the way shes acting. No. I just hurt her poor little ego.

Again. **** her.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Important to save every text, email, and voice message. Do not let her know your doing it. In the mean time, go out and live life, find ways to be happy. When my ex-fiance cheated on me and I ended the relationship, it was fun to be outgoing and flirty. I even got a stripper's number when my friends took me out to my first and only time I have been to one.

You cannot think of her as your wife, because she stopped being a wife. Your relationship has ended, and what you do with your life is no longer her concern unless it affects your child. You do not have to date, but practicing your flirting skills cannot hurt. Have fun, and that will make you more attractive to others.

Of course this is your choice, and you may not be ready, but it is something that you should keep in mind.

As for your wife, she does not exist unless your son is involved. Her personality will swing wildly, and it is best to ignore all those changes. Your not friends, your not partners, your co-parents, and nothing else.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

im going right now to the beach witb brother and friends.

Yes i have to be out there and become more active with women. Not ready to date but yeah flirt and boost confidence and selfesteem which is at an alltime low right now.

I do not see her as nothing more than mybsons mother. We cant even coparent as she has to make everything complicated.

Again **** her. I will be there for my son and be a part an integral part of his life wether she wants me or not. **** thag *****.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

Everything she does at this point, you need to assume is to get a rise out of you that she will then use against you in court and custody. If you can keep your cool and keep your focus then you can use those moments...like this one, against her instead. They may not be deal-breakers in a Jude's eyes but we all know low-blows when we see one and it will show the judge a pattern of behavior. It can't hurt.

But everything you text or email will show up in the custody case if your courts work like ours do, so expect it. Make yourself shine, let her look selfish. It may actually force patience upon you which is a crappy way to learn it but not a bad lesson when it is done (not that you are impatient).

Really, hide the hurt and pain, stand and shine. Expect her to say no to things, expect her to let you down. That was one thing that did help me turn a corner. If get so frustrated when her response disappointed me, my brother finally told me to expect her to disappoint me. It changes things. Just don't say or do hateful things. It will get her attention after awhile...which won't matter...but it may also get the judges attention in a good way and it will also help avoid a scene in front of your son when you'd rather tell her what for.

For what it is worth...my WW's parents did the same to me. I came home New Years Day to see THEM packing up the house and leaving my son and I with my bedroom, half of his and my office. They left the old couch and the big TV as well but left it downstairs where they had taken everything else my son had ever known.

We sat in the open, empty floor in the livin room watching the iPad until he fell asleep on me while they kept moving stuff out.

Unbelievable.

But hey, on one other note, we have made up. Her folks felt awful but at the time they only know really what she tells them and she is their daughter and his grandparents. We are going over there tonight for dinner. Time can heal, whichever direction you go.

But for now, stay focused on how everything you do will look in the eyes of a judge. Nothing else matters. No secret dates, even if you could really use one...and you could. Assume everything you do could be found out...because it could be. Let her make the mistakes. You keep getting better.

Praying for you Bro. Your hurt and anger is competely understandable. Stay strong and get stronger. You can do this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Letting your emotions get the better of you can be risky, regretf.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

thats why i have kept my emotions low. I did not answer back in hate but in dissapointment really. I know shes looking for ways to provoke me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Regretf said:


> thats why i have kept my emotions low. I did not answer back in hate but in dissapointment really. I know shes looking for ways to provoke me.


Are you familiar with active listening, regretf?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Someone mentioned that to me before. Care to explain it more Jdl?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Active listening is a method of non-violent communication meant to de-escalate tension and defuse anger. It requires remaining calm, patient, and sincerely interested in understanding the other person. If done properly, it should not only resolve conflict, but earn the listener a great deal of respect and trust from his partner.

3 simple ideas for practicing active listening:

1. *Repeat her words back to her. *"You don't want me to come in the apartment unless you are there."

2. *Paraphrase her words back to her, reflecting the feeling. *"All my drinking over the last few years really made you lose trust in me. You did not want to lose trust in me, but my behavior brought you to the end of your rope."

3. *Ask an open-ended question.* "I know you are still hurt by how I behaved. I think at this point, only my actions can change your feelings toward me. How can I re-earn your trust?"

You must go into active listening with an open mind. You do not have to agree with anything she says, but you owe it to yourself to try to see where she is coming from. We can all learn from honest criticism, even when it hurts our pride. _Especially when it hurts our pride._

Two things to avoid: 

1. Becoming defensive. "Listen, *****, you are no winner yourself. You are nothing but a selfish user!"

2. Explaining. "I only drank too much because of ..." 

When she is angry, she cannot hear it. She cannot process it. Wait until she is calmer and feels understood by you. Then you will be able to explain, and have your words and intent received in the spirit you mean them.



Regretf, I know you feel mistreated. I bet you feel abused. But approaching your wife in a defensive or aggressive frame is only going to lead to more tension.

Active listening is a way to break through that. It is empathy in action. It is seeking first to understand, and then to be understood. And it would surely diffuse some of the bitterness and resentment that has built up in your relationship.

And, imo, it is the Christian way. It is surely the way Jesus would want you to approach your wife.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I agree JDL. I should try. Right now theres no comunication between us. I cant talk to her. Not even text. Only when i talk to my son.

I have not become agressive nor illintentioned towards her. I have kept my cool and patience.

How many times can someone really say theyre sorry?

Aftrr the stunt she pulled thursday with my son i really have no desire to even talk tobher. Shes hurt? So am i.

Shes hurt and showing me who she is. I dont like that person one bit. But shes the mother of my son and ibhave to coparent with her. I respect her for that. She has shown no respect for me.

Why dont we get this over with? Youd think she would thank the first good offer for the apartment so we can get this over with? Why make it so difficult. I know she wants me to pay after all im responsible for the D in her mind. I am 50%responsible. That i own. 

I am trying to act the christian way. God is giving me one heck of a test with thisnsituation.

I will try my best at acting like the better man.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

It also hurts me tgat she thinks since shes the mother she has more right to be with S3 than me. Devaluating my time/position as father. He spends morentime with grandparents than with me. My son needs me as well.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You just feel completely disrespected. You cannot believe how selfish and manipulative she is being. And you feel like she is dragging out the sale of the apartment just to make your life difficult.

You want to behave like a good Christian man, but this situation is severely testing your good will.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sorry, posted in wrong thread.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Putting on my JLD flame suit here....
> 
> D1, this is a sh!t test. You know it's not true. She knows it's not true. But she is giving it to you anyway.
> 
> ...


Thanks FSJ for your thoughts. It is vry hard for me, my ego and pide get in the way inknow, it i my son and the time we spend togther what we are talking about, she disrespected that.

I really do not see a way his R or m can b fixed, thee i no love anymore from the mother of my on towars me, it hasturned into hate, anger, resent. I resent her for what shes doing with my son and my time with him, the little respect she has for it.

I will turn the other cheek though, i ill be the bigger man and not act towards her with hate and anger. I ill be te more stable of the two in all of this and i will acto more mature in all of this.

Active listening. I wish i could do it, like i said we have no comunication, none whatsoever. her mind is mde up and mine wasnt 100% done up until two day ago. I ask myself. How can i want to be with a person like that? this is not the person i married and if what im seeing is the real her i want none to be with. I still feel for my son what it will do to him to grow up with divorced parents. I feel like i have done everything in my power to prevent the divorce, i have apologized many times, of course she doesent believe it or even wose cares. I wont say that im a chaged man, but im much better than the man i was when she left me or in the M. Its not enough for her?, mayb someon else would appreciate it more in he future.

Again i will be the better man in all of this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Eventually you two will have to communicate. Keep active listening in mind for then.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Well i had a good time with brother and friends at the beach. Got to vent a lot and distract myself. Talked to a couple of girls at the beach so yeah that good for me after all.

Talked to S3 everyday in the morning and at night. Know he's having a great easter time And that makes me happy. Miss him a lot though.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Regretf, I have not read the all thread but my wife, JLD, has filled me in. If you want to define your way ahead, you have first to be brutally honest. That way, you will avoid discovering after a while that you have dug your hole deeper.

*Why dont we get this over with? Youd think she would thank the first good offer for the apartment so we can get this over with? Why make it so difficult. I know she wants me to pay after all im responsible for the D in her mind. I am 50%responsible. That i own. *

Why are you saying you are only 50% responsible for the divorce? Why not saying 100%? If you have a car accident with your wife next to you, you can claim she was talking to you when the accident occurred. But you are the one that was driving the car, not her. You made the mistake.

*It also hurts me that she thinks since shes the mother she has more right to be with S3 than me. Devaluating my time/position as father. He spends more time with grandparents than with me. My son needs me as well.*

We have a president in the US whose father was not part of his life and was raised by his grandparents. He did not turn out that bad.

I am not suggesting fathers are unimportant. Kids turn out fine with single fathers as well. My point is that you need to be worth the time. Your wife does not think you are worth her time. And words do not mean anything. They are cheap. Actions are what counts.

You are definitely the underdog. But you have a lot of power. You can make the situation better or you can make it worse. It is your choice.

If you care for your son, you need to care for his mother. You do not have to stay married to her. At this point it does not seem possible. But you have to respect her. 

Your actions moving forward will mean a lot if you want to win her trust back.

To do that, I would not get angry. I would stick to the facts. I would seek your son's best interest which may not be yours in the short term.

Is it your son that needs you or you that need your son?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Duguesclin said:


> Regretf, I have not read the all thread but my wife, JLD, has filled me in. If you want to define your way ahead, you have first to be brutally honest. That way, you will avoid discovering after a while that you have dug your hole deeper.
> 
> *Why dont we get this over with? Youd think she would thank the first good offer for the apartment so we can get this over with? Why make it so difficult. I know she wants me to pay after all im responsible for the D in her mind. I am 50%responsible. That i own. *
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input Duguesclin. I umderstand what you are saying. I respect my sons mother even after the stunt she pulled on thursday. I did get angry and vented here and with family and friends. I answered her email sayimg how dissapointed i was of her actions. I have not told her anything else and not done anything else. Talked to my son twice a day and havent mentioned anything to his mother. I have turned the other cheek. 

I do not plan on goimg to war with her. To even say anything mean.

yes as the leader of my boat as the man in the M i am 100% responsible, i aknowledge that.

what do you suggest i do? How should i handle it at this point? 

What else can i do to improve the situation and comunication between us, at least for my sons wellbeing.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Right now i need my son more than he needs me. Understand my POV too. I havent been with my son for three straight weekends. That hurts. Ive been responsible with him, always on time and we have have great times. It seems nothing i do is good enough for his mother. Shes very mad at me still because of the receipt book from her patients that i took fro m her and presented as evidence at the child support hearing because she failed to aknowledge that extra imcome.

yes what i did was sneaky but also her lying. We shouldnt haveto come to this. Its sad that we couldnt agree on any terms, child support, visitation rights and the selling of the apartment.

im willing tobe the bigger man and take the higher road. Your input aswell as others is highly appreciated.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Please understand that your wife is doing what she is doing to protect your son. She has his best interest in mind. She does not trust you.

All the actions she is doing are very consistent. Her goal was probably to stay in the apartment and live off the extra money she received from the therapy. Now you blew that plan, not only by refusing her terms on the apartment but also by revealing the extra money she was making. The conclusion is she will not be able to stay much longer. Why should she be helpful? There is no advantage for her.

You need to understand what is her new plan and help her achieve it if you want to resume normal relations with your son.

If you could succeed to have her stay in the apartment, it would be ideal. That would be a good solution to stop the downward spiral you both are in with this divorce proceeding.

It will be good for your son. 

Right now she knows you are out to get her because all your actions have been directed against her. This is how she sees it. If you could show that you are now trying to find a solution that protects her interests as well, it will go a long way to have her trust you again.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Duguesclin said:


> Please understand that your wife is doing what she is doing to protect your son. She has his best interest in mind. She does not trust you.
> 
> All the actions she is doing are very consistent. Her goal was probably to stay in the apartment and live off the extra money she received from the therapy. Now you blew that plan, not only by refusing her terms on the apartment but also by revealing the extra money she was making. The conclusion is she will not be able to stay much longer. Why should she be helpful? There is no advantage for her.
> 
> ...


OK let me breath again. It was always my intention to let her and my son stay in the apartment. She was going to buy me out and i was going to concede the mortgage to her. I did an appraisal on the apartment and for her to buy me out she would have had to give me 49k i said ok give me 35k, she neither could or would. She told me she could only give me 15k and that she couldnt get more in debt since she had to "change cars in 2 years". Ufff. Now im i being difficult because i couldnt accept her 15k? There was little that i could do with that.

before her trip to the Us i said i will leave you the apartment for 30k and she said that we would talk when she came back. We havent. Domt think shes interested in talking.

The child support she came for our S3 was close to 1200 were i was suppose to pay 800 and she less than 400 since i made more money than her not counting her patients. I had to pull that out of the hat because i cannot live paying 800 a month for child support. She has stated that its not her problem where i live, and the idea was for me to save money and move with my mom, but at the same time she wouldnt let me have my son overnight since i do t have my own place. Now, how can i have my own place with just 15k from the apartment and paying 800 a month in CS?

She has a right to not trust me thats on her and even though i have done everything to gain that trust this 6 months regarding my trust she still doesmt trust me because i was suppose to accept all her petitions regarding the D. 

This last months i have been paying for the apartment, my sons school and half of his expenses. Every month that adds up more than $700, i have done it because i love my son amd want to be responsible for him and dont want my W to have to go thru all by herself, she texts me saying that she spent x on him on food or whatever and i send her half right away without seeing receipts because i trust her, but she cant trust me?

She used the ticket i had bought for us to go on vacations to thr Us last year for a seminar she wanted to take. At first i told her that she should deposit the money from the ticket on sons bank account, no r3sponse. After some days she said she didnt have the money but she could transfer some every payday. I saidp ok. Two days later i told her that she could pay the ticket from her shareof the selling of the apartment, that i understood if she was tight on money, no rush.

im willing to do anything for my family, anything. I cant end up that hurt financially that i wont be able to get a place of my own son my son can have his own place too, so he can spend time with me and stay over.

W and i need to sit down and figure out a plan. I want us to end up well so we can offer our son the best. We need to put anger and resent,ment aside and work for our son.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

You know both my son's mother have acted out of fear and hurt. Divorce is never easy, specially with a young child in the middle. 

I know i caused a lot ofbthat pain and hurt in her. To me the pain has been away from my son. Thinking in the future he would think that i ababdoned him and his mom. Thats why my anxiousness of being there for him every step of the way, every moment, to tighten the bond. I understand my Xs primary goal of looking after his best interest. Its hurtfull to have to go thru this for all of us.

Why we let so much resent get in the way i dont know. Dont want it to keep on like this.
i fear i never really knew my W and she never really knew me either. She wants to secure as much money out of the child support hearing and ibget that. Shes asking for an ammount thatbshe knows i cant pay, thats being unreasonable. I will always support my son and provide for him. Always. Hes my priority for life.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

A divorce is messy. I do not have better news for you.

Please keep in mind that she is not crazy. What she is doing is very logical. I would do the same if I were her. She need to maximize her return. Anything you will do to fight that will reinforce her poor opinion of you. 

At the same time you need to watch out for yourself. It is messy because there are no winners, just losers.

Only time, lots of time and a true change of heart on your part can change the course of this relationship. 

Talk is cheap, what your wife needs to see is actions. Unfortunately the opportunities to show them off are now very limited.

Keep the line you have with your son alive. Stay focus on that and do not let life interfere with it. I would not focus on girls right now. Honing your flirting skills is not what matters today.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Girls or women are not a priority. Im not even divorced yet. Im very formal and moral with that.

It is tricky i dont want to upset her but she shouldnt want to upset me.

You are right there are no ewinners in D only losers. My son is the one that matters the most. Everything should be with him on my mind. I dont want to screw her but dont want to get screwed either.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

What does she have to gain with not upsetting you? What is in it for her? 

Her goal is for you to look bad in front of the judge. So she is going to poke and make your life miserable. It is not because she is meanspirited. It is because she wants the best for your son.

She believes you are not capable of taking care of your son. If she were to die, do you think she would want you to raise him?

You may think you have turned around, that you are a new man. But people need to see the new Regretf in action. They need to believe he is trust worthy. This does not happen overnight.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think she is just genuinely angry with regretf. And that anger is just hurt. It may have solidified into resentment, but when melted down, it is just pure hurt.

It does not sound like either one of you can really afford this divorce, regretf. Is there anything you think you could do at this point to turn things around? Any way to soften her heart?

Can you set all pride aside, all ego, and really think about some possible answers to those questions?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

No it doesnt. Its been over 6 months. I have done a lot of things, she doesnt want to recognize that, fine. Ill keep on improving myself.

I was never irresponsible with my son in the M. Never jeopordized him. never failed to be a good father withbhim.

Two years ago she sent me fathers day card thanking me for being such a great father to our son. What made her changed her perception of me? She told menwhen our son was about a year old that she put a lot on me with me taking care of our son while she was seeing patients, that most dads wouldnt take care of their children like that. Come D she doesnt trust me. Not even to take our son to a pool at my friends building. My sons godmother.


There must be some truth to it but like you say she's not going tonmake it easy for me.

I will continue to prove with my actions that im a capable father. I will not let my son down, thats for shure.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Hey Jld. Why do you say that either one of us cant afford a D?

I would have done anything or everything. Dont know if it can be done now. I dont see any love from her for me.

I still love her though im hurt and resentful. For my son i would do anything.

Can it be fixed? At this point i dont know how. Will i be willing to do anything? I think i would.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Meaning that you cannot afford to buy her out and keep the apartment, and she cannot either. And like you said, the divorce has not even started. This is only the child support part, right?

See, I am thinking she still loves you, too. If she did not, I don't think she would still be engaged with you in any way. The apartment would be sold already. She would want you out of her life as quickly as possible.

I think you need to find a way to connect with her. I want to believe there is still some hope for turning things around.

But for sure, it will be hard. I think she sees taking her receipt book as a low blow. It may have destroyed the last bit of trust.

I am idealistic, regretf. I want to believe you can find a way to turn things around.

You took the receipt book because you wanted to even the playing ground financially. You want to make sure you can see your son regularly. Without enough money for your own place, you could not do that.

Regretf, could you write her a letter telling her that? An honest letter saying you did not want to hurt her, but your love for your son is great, and you cannot bear the thought of not seeing him?

So sorry the courts are involved. Everything is so much trickier with a third party, with ultimate authority, involved. So sorry it came to that.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I am sorry too JLD. A lot to think. I can write the letter and not send it. I could wait a couple of days for my own anger and resent to calm down, which it has. Im not a resentful person.

You have some points. Which are valid, plus you've seen and read so much here. She does engage with me and i avoid that.

We have the child support hearing and child visitation hearing pending.

The selling of the apartment i have given it thought. She wants tondivorce me because she doesnt love me and ornsee a future with me. Why does shenmake the selling of the condonso difficult? She will get ridnofbthe M as soon as we sell. I think she doesnt want to sell so i get desperate and accept her 15k. Idk.

You are right about neither of us being able to afford to buy the other out. A Divorce would be catastrofic for all three of us.

I will pray to God to show me the way and lead me towards the right path.

The letter would have to come when im at peace. But yes i will write it.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Let God do what needs to be done

but in the meantime......... stick to the 180 / NC minus S3

you weren't perfect but she sure as he!! wasn't an ice princess

lead by example. Don't talk it brother, walk it


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Duguesclin said:


> Please understand that your wife is doing what she is doing to protect your son.


If you were assuming her intentions were bad, this would be considered a disrespectful judgement.

Nobody knows her intentions.

And while I would urge you to take the emotional high road, when it comes to divorce and custody, the high road WILL result in a less desirable situation.

In this instance, I envision a scenario in which you carry yourself like a man and she cleans you out in court.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

*Far:If you were assuming her intentions were bad, this would be considered a disrespectful judgement.
*

Her intentions towards whom? Towards Regretf, they are obviously bad. Towards her son it is a high probability to be good.

I am simply arguing that what she is doing is very logical. It is not crazy.

There is no good choice in this situation. Her living standard is going down as well as his. She is trying to salvage as much as she can with no consideration about him.

He needs to look at the facts the way they are. Pretending she is crazy and is only there to get him is wrong. She wants to protect her interests as well as her son's. As I understand it his dependence on alcohol is probably one of the reasons she filed for divorce.

Regretf does not have the upper hand in this situation. The more he messes up the less likely he is to spend time with his son.

I am suggesting that he nurse the little life line that is left with his wife. Understanding where she is coming from will help him stay cool and make the appropriate decision. Calling her a F.. B..., even in this thread, does not help him maintain a clear vision.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I agree that she is being logical. I pointed it out a couple of pages ago when he threw BPD into the conversation. 

I also agree his cursing her simply clouds things. 

At this point it is about business decisions. That is exactly how she is handling it.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Hello, great insight everybody, more thoughts:

I have to be careful in my choice of words and actions. Yes i did vent in this thread and insulted my son's mother, that cannot be, that doesn't do anything good for anybody.

She might be looking for my son's best interest but also for hers, i am looking for my son's best interest but also for mine, not in detriment of my financial situation. Like JDL mentioned, i cannot end up so hurt financially that i won't be able to buy a place of my own, therefore my son won't have a place to spend weekends with his dad, specially nights with me, since she doens't want that. What the judge says is another thing. An $800 child support a month for a three and a half boy is unspeakable, but she wants to hit me financially and i would get to that later.

This morning i went to pick up my son and X and i didn't say a Word to each other, i greeted and hugged my son and he gave me three easter eggs i asked "who are these for for your teachers"? and X replied in an annoyed matter", " No ______, this are for you, your mom and sister", so i took my son and left. She continues to be pissed, OK, i take the higher road.

One time Chuck mentioned something to me about Convert Contracts and i did my google search on that. The biggest reason, i believe W and i D is not because of alcohol, because of her acting like a "mother" to me, it's not her having to tell me to get rid of socks and underwear with holes in them or her telling me 3 years ago that i had to wash my hair every day, it's not also her and i being distant emotionally and her seeing that i didn't do anything about it (though i believe this is a big cause), all of these reasons she has given me, plus not doing things i was suppose to do as a husband and leader of my family. All of these reasons contributed to her feeling dissapointed with me throughout the years (yeah, the loooong 5 years that our M lasted), i believe the biggest issue is a Converted Contact she had when we were dating and got married and that she never really spoke to me about it or was 100% sincere: MONEY.

She has mentioned a few times that i deceived her and tricked her into marrying me, believing that i "sold" myself very well, then she got a something else in marriage. She told me, after we Split that we she married me she knew i wasn't a millionaire but that she thought I would be further ahead in my career or money wise right now. See we were well of financially, we both have two Jobs, she has her job at the hospital and her patients she sees on the side. I have my regular 9-5 job plus the two colleges where i teach at night. We were not rich but also we were not swimming in money.

Comparing our salaries we were pretty much even though maybe i made a bit more than her. I paid for our mortgage, utility bills, home owners maintanence fees, property taxes, my car loan, my son's school, his stem cells plan we got when he was born and pretty much all the remodeling we did to our condo, ha and i had bought the tickets we were suppose to use to go on vacations last year.

She paid for groceries, my son's medical insurance and her bills (gas, cell pone, etc). She also took a loan two years ago to finish paying her car and to remodeled our place (money that i would pay my half when we sell the condo).

A couple of times when we were married she mantioned jokingly that "yeah since groceries have gone up in prices that maybe she should pay for the mortage and i paid the groceries", she said that jokingly, but now i found out she was serious.

I told her when all of this started back i september that i fell that she though at this point we (I) would be better of financially and that she wouldn't have to work so much, therefore she wouldn't be so tired and that had gotten to her, all the pressure of two Jobs, house, husband, a child, etc, and that had her frustrated", she denied it.

After we Split she told me that the money she made was suppose to be an extra and that I has husband and head of the family was suppose to take care of pretty much all responsabilities. The i called her on that the next day and she said that's not what she meant.

She also complained to me that "i took her for granted", what she meant was that i should have been more "splendid" with her, since she Works so hard and took care of the house and son. In that sense she's right, yeah maybe i should have been more proactive suggesting different activities for us as a family to do and not procrastinate so much, you realice your mistakes later on.

She also complained to me whe we Split up that i never took her car to the carwash and that i never gave her money to go to the saloon or called her when i was at the supermarket to see if she needed something (which i did many times before i left for the supermarket but she forgets). That she neede someone to do that for her.

So in hindsight, when she married me, she expected me to "take care" of her in the long run, but never told me, see, according to her "I as the head of the family was suppose to figure that out", i'm no mind reader.

I have said many times that i believe she's frustrated herself with her life, she has to work really hard(like all of us) to make decent money, she thought at this point in her life she would be better off, and of course her dear husband was suppose to provide that for her.

She graduated top of her classs in HS and college, she chose a profession that's not very profitable were she has to work her butt off to make some money, and i don't know if she regrets not choosing something else instead, but heck "H was suppose to take care of that", and while that didn't exactly panned out like she planned and hoped but never, ever mentioned to me, she got upset. I mentioned to her when we were together, "why didn't you study to be a doctor?", she said, "because i didn't liked working shifts, but i wanted something medical related" so she chose being a Physical Therapist, that in our country don't become rich but could make decent money, she does, but i guess it's not enough.

Forgot to mentioned that in our first year of M she did a few times found out different Jobs for me to apply, which i did, not thinking much of it, but that should have been a red flag for me right there, meaning she wasn't satisfied with how much money i was making, of course back then i thought "well how nice of my wife to look for different Jobs for me so we can IMPROVE our economic situation as a couple", again we were making decent money, but appearantly it wasn't enough for her.

On an important note, while she was growing up, her dad made a very good salary while her mom made a decent salary and if i'm not mistaken, guess the dad paid for almost everything around the house, later he got fired and it was the other way around, but heck, that's what she saw growing up, and that's what she expected when we got M, just "forgot to tell me".

So in the end, yeah God only knows what will happen, but this is an issue that can't be resolved that easy.

Convert Contracts...


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

On another note, thanks to Chuck's recomendation of Reading all of Zillard's famous threads i've learn so much. There's an analogy he mentioned in his second thread from A to Z, that goes like this.

You are in control of your own happiness. 

So much of our suffering is caused by our own attachments. Our delusions. Our expectations of how things should be. 

He said, "We do not feel our circumstances. We feel our thoughts about our circumstances." 

Our preconceived notions, our assumptions, our learned reactions, our desires... they are all filters that we add unnecessarily in order to see what we want to see. To feel what we want to feel. 

An attempt to avoid suffering which really only causes more. 

*He had a good analogy: If we take a heaping spoonful of salt and put it in a glass of water, how easy will that be to drink? 

What if we put the same spoonful into a pitcher of water? A little bit easier. 

What about a water cooler? How about a lake? You wouldn't even notice. 

The amount of salt (our suffering) did not change. Only the amount of water changed. The water is gratitude. 

Gratitude for the things that are right in our lives. As we focus on those, we have gratitude for smaller and smaller things. Due to that, our troubles pale in comparison.

No matter how troublesome you think your life is... someone, somewhere dreams of having your life.*

That is one of the best if not the best analogy i've ever read in my life.

It applies to all of us, how we choose to look at our lives. If we look at our problems and unhappiness as bigger tan our good things in life, how grateful we are for all our blessings, we are going to see our blessings as just a little glass of wáter, our lives will be miserable but if we look at our blessings as a bigger pond, lake, our problems and unhappiness will be diluted easier into the big body of water that are our blessings.

I like this approach, i feel like my W or X has looked at her life in the same way, her problems and things that were causing her unhappiness were the spoonful of salt, but for all the great things she (we) had going in our lives, she chose to see them as a small glass of water, hence the troubles and frustrations were going to make her (our) lives very, very salty.

Getting rid of our M(me) won't instantly make her happier, actually when i see her i don't see a happy person in life, i see her more miserable actually, if you don't look inside to what's wrong, really wrong with you and YOUR life, you won't be happy with anybody else. I was guilty of this in our M, i wasn't happy, but it wasn't because of my W, but because of ME, i wasn't content with they way my profesional life had turned out, i was in a rut and depressed and passed that into our M, i wasn't miserable in my life, i was just "getting by" of course i had other things that made me happy, my son, my hobbies, teaching, having a family, being grateful for all the wonders in my life, being healthy, but unfourtunately my W was miserable, i didn't know, but she was, for the reasons i exposed in my above post.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Some people you just can't please, no matter what you do.

She gave you fair warning she wanted to be an entitled princess.

If your 110% was not enough for her, it is in your best interest to show her the door.

I would nap for an hour or so before UG got off work, she would wake me when

she got in. Near the end she stopped waking me up and complained I didn't want

to spend time with her. In a healthy relationship, you have each other's back.

You don't sabotage it. The first time UG said that, I knew there were turds in the 

bathtub. Did your W compliment or ostracize your good qualities?

Was she there to help you or hinder you? When you finish Z's third and current thread

in the Reconciliation section..... I have one more. Zs thread was college level.

ReGroup's is grad level learning. Pay attention to Mavish. This poster was a 

female. She gives very good observations from a women's point of view.

Here is the thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/63357-time-regroup-move.html

yes 400+ pages but the knowledge it contains is gold


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Some people you just can't please, no matter what you do.
> 
> She gave you fair warning she wanted to be an entitled princess.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say i gave my 110% but i gave a lot, a lot.

She used to compliment my qualities. In our two eyar anniversary she gave me a card where she wrote: "Thanks for being the best husband in the world or something like that" another time something that said " i thank God for having the greatest man, friend there could be or something like that", Come to think she never really thanked God for anything, so maybe that was some BS.

She used to help me with my qualities but after some time she did not and then started criticizing me and not paying attention to my qualities.

I hear what you are saying regarding the "waking you up story", after awhile some people just stop, i mean what's the point of caring for the R if it's going to hell right?, but i didn't do much to help the M either, i mean neither did, but i didn't think it was in such bad shape or that she was so miserable, i would have done anything, everything.

I do believe my W is very hard to please and an inconformist. One of those people that see the glass half empty, still i contributed to the failing of the M, i won't deny that, but not in the way she wants me to believe.

I will finish the threads (Z's) and then move on to Regroups.

I've read some of Mavish posts, she's dead on.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Regretf said:


> On another note, thanks to Chuck's recomendation of Reading all of Zillard's famous threads i've learn so much. There's an analogy he mentioned in his second thread from A to Z, that goes like this.
> 
> You are in control of your own happiness.
> 
> ...


I really love the saltwater analogy. That one struck a chord with me. It is very important, when going through the process of a separation and/or divorce, to focus on your blessings and not allow the pain to engulf your life. No matter how painful your divorce is - there is ALWAYS a lot to be grateful for as well. What we focus on becomes our reality.

It saddens me that you're away from your son, and that your wife is not giving you another chance. I hope that one day soon it changes, but if not, I feel you're a strong person and will get through it wiser and yes, happier as well. Today you're grieving for what you THINK you want...but in the future you might look back and realize that you gave it your all, and she wasn't the one for you. If she did "give you another chance" but it was full of resentments and bitterness, what kind of life would that be?

My husband used to tell me to be grateful for everything we had. But although I knew we had a lot to be grateful for (food on the table, our child's health after a serious illness, our love for each other), it didn't erase my day to day misery and anxiety and unhappiness. And I blamed him so much for it. Now that I am on my own, yes I am lonely and I pine for our family to come back together sometimes, but I'm not depressed or anxious and I don't have a nervous breakdown every other month and I don't experience tragic screaming rampages from my husband. Life is give and take. I lost my marriage, and I feel the pain of that loss deeply, but I gained peace. It's like he died, and I'm mourning his death...and my death and the death of our shared future...but I know life must go on.

It's like Robert Frost said: "In three words, I can sum up everything I've learned about life. It goes on."


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> I wouldn't say i gave my 110% but i gave a lot, a lot.
> 
> She used to compliment my qualities. In our two eyar anniversary she gave me a card where she wrote: "Thanks for being the best husband in the world or something like that" another time something that said " i thank God for having the greatest man, friend there could be or something like that", Come to think she never really thanked God for anything, so maybe that was some BS.
> 
> ...


Nobody can give 110% all of the time. No one brings their "A" game every day.

Just how humans are. We get complacent. We get relaxed, take the other 

for granted. You provided for your family and protected them.

With that being said.... when you learned about how she felt.... then you stepped

up your game, just as anyone else would. What occurs here is she sees no fault

from her end..... which every one knows is a falsehood. This is where the 

conflict arises. That is why we always say 180 / NC. She is focused on your

bad qualities, some true some conjured up in her head. Eventually..... she

will also see what a great father and H you were. Sometimes they realize it 

soon enough to save the M or begin again after the D. Sadly some realize it too 
'
late and the other simply..... moved on. When you give all you've got and

that isn't good enough, all you can do is..... move on.

Regret...... one month from now....W comes to you and gives you a "from the heart"

speech and you honestly think she is telling you how she truly feels.

Would you consider a R? One thing you learn when you deal with matters of the 

heart............. never say never.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> I really love the saltwater analogy. That one struck a chord with me. It is very important, when going through the process of a separation and/or divorce, to focus on your blessings and not allow the pain to engulf your life. No matter how painful your divorce is - there is ALWAYS a lot to be grateful for as well. What we focus on becomes our reality.
> 
> It saddens me that you're away from your son, and that your wife is not giving you another chance. I hope that one day soon it changes, but if not, I feel you're a strong person and will get through it wiser and yes, happier as well. Today you're grieving for what you THINK you want...but in the future you might look back and realize that you gave it your all, and she wasn't the one for you. If she did "give you another chance" but it was full of resentments and bitterness, what kind of life would that be?
> 
> ...


At this point i really don't want to get back with her. I've seen things from her that i don't like and don't want to be with a person like that. I want to be able to move on and be with my son, that's what's important to me right now.

Her making me difficult to be with son has really put a toll on my heart and soul, painful, i'm nor resentful but i do resent her from doing so. In order to hurt me she does it thru my son. Doesn't see the trail of hurt and pain she's leaving.

All things must pass.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> At this point i really don't want to get back with her. I've seen things from her that i don't like and don't want to be with a person like that. I want to be able to move on and be with my son, that's what's important to me right now.
> 
> Her making me difficult to be with son has really put a toll on my heart and soul, painful, i'm nor resentful but i do resent her from doing so. In order to hurt me she does it thru my son. Doesn't see the trail of hurt and pain she's leaving.
> 
> All things must pass.


In other words.... you don't wish to be with someone who wields a knife and who

has already stabbed you in the back and wishes to repeat the action?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Regretf said:


> At this point i really don't want to get back with her. I've seen things from her that i don't like and don't want to be with a person like that. I want to be able to move on and be with my son, that's what's important to me right now.
> 
> Her making me difficult to be with son has really put a toll on my heart and soul, painful, i'm nor resentful but i do resent her from doing so. In order to hurt me she does it thru my son. Doesn't see the trail of hurt and pain she's leaving.
> 
> All things must pass.


I think this is important, regretf. I think this is your heart speaking.

We are not all the same. My husband gave advice based on his own personality and belief system. But you are not him. Your life reflects who you are, just as his reflects who he is.

I do think there is great resentment in your wife, and a desire to hurt you. She feels you hurt her first, I would guess. She probably also thinks you have more advantage moving forward. Your little boy is her only weapon, sad as that is to say.

Selling the apartment as quickly as possible would probably clarify things for your wife. She cannot afford to maintain her standard of living without you. I am surprised she did not think this through before. She must have really just wanted out, and quickly.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> Nobody can give 110% all of the time. No one brings their "A" game every day.
> 
> Just how humans are. We get complacent. We get relaxed, take the other
> 
> ...


Happens......all the time. Although, I'm pretty happy my ex did not see any fault on her end until it was too late..... LOL.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

jld said:


> I think this is important, regretf. I think this is your heart speaking.
> 
> We are not all the same. My husband gave advice based on his own personality and belief system. But you are not him. Your life reflects who you are, just as his reflects who he is.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised too. She must have gotten bad advice. That's why she wants me to pay $800 a month child support for a three and a half year old boy. That's why she wanted to buy me out and instead of the 45k she was suppose to give me and i agreed to drop it to 35K she was silling or could only give me 
15K, and that's why she wanted me to only see my son 18 hours a month and him nto to spend the night with me until i had my own place, plus every festivity until he was 6 years old, every long weekend she wanted him to be with her.,

How the heck she thought i would go for all of this i real don't know. She understaimated me and overstimated my guilt over the failings of the M.

Your h with all the good advice he gave me said since i was the man and leader of my family said i was 100% responsable, which i get, though i don't feel it was all my fault.

yes she wanted out but didn't think things throughly, she envisioned a scenario were everything was going to go in her favour and on things she had no control over.

She's making the sale of the apartment a problema, but i don think it's because she still loves me, actually i believe she despises me. I believe she's waiting for me to concede and sell her my saher for 15K, won't happen.

If at any point in these past 6 months she had at least tried, tried at elast for our son to llok for a way for us to work it out, my Outlook and attitude would be different, but she did not, actually when she asked me on the second MC appointement to move out since she needed "space", "time" to sort out her feelings i believe she knew she didn't wanted to work on the M, but didn't have the guts to tell it to my face and "tricked" me into believing the separation was temporary and i fell because i wanted so hard to save my family.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think my husband's advice works for a certain kind of man, but not every man.

Well, your lawyer is fighting for you, and hers is fighting for her. I hope somehow your son will not be too damaged by all of this.

Try to be honest with yourself, regretf, about the things you did wrong, as well as what she did wrong. If she does not come back to you, and you move on to another relationship, you don't want to wind up in a similar situation.

And the advice you are getting to blame her and pity yourself is not going to empower you, imo. Focusing on what you can do to lessen bad feelings, while being practical about the best interests of your son, would be more helpful, I think.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

jld said:


> I think my husband's advice works for a certain kind of man, but not every man.
> 
> Well, your lawyer is fighting for you, and hers is fighting for her. I hope somehow your son will not be too damaged by all of this.
> 
> ...


Thanks JLd. I did a lot of wrong in my M, i see my faults and where i took a wrong turn or many wrong turns, i know i hurt her in the M and i can see where i even neglected her for the latest part of the M, we both did. I'm aware of my problems and i don't want to repeat them in any future relationships. I've come a long way but i'm not perfect.

I don't pity myself and blame her, maybe i do, but not for the M but what has come afterwards.

Chuck asked me if i would considere a R. Even with all the hurt i've been trhu these 6 months, even with her making it difficult for me to have my son sometimes, i would take back my family in a heartbeat. But why kid myself?, it's not going to happen, they way she's acted and the things she's done and said has hardened my heart also, though i don't harbor bad feelings for her, she's still the mother of my son, how could i, i don't see after all the crap that has happend how we could even see face to face. I would still fight for my family and for my son to have both his parents in a intact family unit, but i can't do it alone. Shoudl i continue to harbor feelings of hope of someday she having an AHA moment, of her having a change of heart? I believe for that to happen she would have to hit rock bottom and that ahsn't happen yet, even then when you don't love somebody how can that feeling reappear again?

We have both hurt each other so much and with a son in the middle it's heartbreaking to watch. i don0t want my son to have to parents in the future that can't even look each other in the eye, he'll sense that and that will affect him, i don't want that.

it seems i have two choices: To bow down my head and accept her proposals and keep playing the guilty husband who would do anything to please his STXW and in that sense ruin my economic and living future or

Protect my interests and fight for what's fair so i can provide my son and as well myself a better future together were i can think of a better tomorrow but in the path piss off the X more and more though creating an unstable situation.

Both scenarios are not easy.

I believe child support and custody and visitation rights decided by a judge is not ideal but it would be "fair".

The quickly we sell the apartment the faster we can both move on with our lives. She would have to move back to her parents with our son for awhile and sabe and work hard to make more money so she can buy something "decent" for her and S3. I will be able to buy an apartment and move out of my brother's condo and have a place where S3 can spend time with me and we can créate "some living" at least on "our weekends", he will be able to spend the night with me.

The person that was my W is no longer there, she's been replaced by an evil twin, an evil twin that's a product of the circumstances or maybe is showing her true colours. I'm positive she sees in me no trace of the man she fell in love years ago, just some ******* who's trying to "make it difficult" for her and HER son to go on.

I see a big difference in both of us. I blame myself for the situation i'm in, i did it and it was necesary for me to change and become a better versión of myself. She blames what's happend on me and me only, she sees no fault in her and until she does, she's bound to make the same mistakes.

I know i wasn't a perfect husband but i wasn't a horrible one either, did my best with what i had at the time, it wasn't enough unfourtunately. there are no time machines i can't go back and undo things i did or didn't do, wish i could, but i can't.


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## beyondrepair (Aug 17, 2013)

I can relate to your pain and situation.

Your insight shows you will get through this stronger and wiser, time is on your side on this one, it does get better and better.

Keep focusing on yourself and quality time with your son.

Good luck.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Good morning all, an indeed it is a good morning. I had a good sleep last night and even overslept some.

Yesterday i was talking to a gay friend and neighbour of mine who's very interested in buying the apartment. I was telling him the story behind my D and told him about my mistakes and shortcomings in the M. In the end he said "it's all about money with women, a lot of my straight friends that have gone thru a D tell me at the end a lot of resenment builds over time over things they didn't give or buy to their wives, most of the W have a calculator in hand", i just shrug it off. He did tell me at the end that i looked good and that my aura was very good and peaceful. I said "you should have seen me 6 months ago". we talked about meditation and budhism, how i'm in a much better place right now thanks to what's happend, i've learned so much about life and myself and fell like am a much better father, man and person overall, but still have a long way to go.

Tension between X and I is high because of her. Yesterday when i went to pick him up she said "good morning" i dind't hear hear and she then said loud and upset "GOOD MORNING" so i GM back, jeezzz, chill.

Still giving me a hard time having my son go anywhere wanting to know every single detail. this friday is an off day in our country because we have a Presidents meeting from presidents from all over the continent and i wanted to take him to another town thats maybe 2 hours from the city with my mom and brother, they have a zoo and some atractions. She said NO, simply because there might me some people protesting or streets closed (that won't happen) because of the President's meeting, another excuse from her, anyway i will take him some other place. See i told her the truth i could have lied and say we are going some place else, but that's not me anymore, i haven't said a lie in maybe 6 months and plan on living like that.

Also in the afternoon when i went to pick him up and take him to the park, when i came back she was doen in the building waiting for him like she's doing since i took the receipt book, and when we got there i said "Come on ____ S3, i'll take you upstairs. X said No, i said YES i will take my son to the door of HIS house, i won't drop him here like he's a stranger. She said NO i said YES and then she said "You ask for this", meaning because i took the receipt book now she wouldn't let me take my son to the door of the apartment, and then she said "get used to it", "really? " i said, she said "yeah, when i have my own apartment i won't let you come inside", "no prob, until then i will take my son to the door of HIS apartment", then i did and hugged him goodbye. Ufff, what a way to complicate things.

I'm trying not to get engaged, but i won't be pushed over. I told her by text that this is not about us but about S3 and his well being, that it's not OK for him to see us in tension and treating each other bad, that this picking him up and taking him to the apartment entrance is not OK, he might be only 3 but he'll sense the tension between us.

I said that i'm sorry about taking the receipt book and that i understand if there's no more trust on her part but that i had to otherwise she would have taken my opportunity of getting another place so i can have S3 over and if i paid her what she asked for i would have little money to take son out and i hoped she understood that, that i wanted everything to be fair to BOTH of us. That i love my son and that i'm no part time dad but a full time father and that i'd be there always for him, and everything that he neede i would provide.

I also said that we should try to coparent in a civil way for S3 benefit and in order for my son to feel my presence in his life i neede to be there for and with him the most time possible.

I asked her to stop the anger, that's not doing either one of us any good, that that's blinding her.

She responded with sarcasm "" Yeah...thanks".

I'd left it at that.

Also i talked to a woman firend that's just going thru a D also and H is still living with her in an in house separation. I gave her some tips and comments on how to handle it. She said "waoo, you really know what you are talking about" i said "well i'm ahead of you", plus she doens't know the knowledge TAM brings.:lol: I remebrered something Chuck said about when his D was on how after some time he was giving more advice than receiving.

Today i feel good, i'm not there but i'm on my way.

Today i will see S3 in the afternoon and that is always something to be grateful for


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

STOP apologizing for doing what you think is right. I will say this until you get it.... DO NOT ENGAGE her

She wants you to engage her and yes, she knows just how to do it.

When she refused you to take S3 to the door.... if that was what YOU wanted to do..... simply say

"I'm sorry you feel that way" and if she does continue, "done yet?"

She trusted you with S3 before but now wants to know every movement.... she wants control over

you in some way........ and S3 is the easiest. Enforce your boundaries. If crossed, react accordingly.

You will get advice here exactly opposite of what I am saying, that's why TAM is a board. Consider all advice given.

Take the good, dismiss the bad. Your W could easily make this separation / divorce go a lot smoother. 

Do you think she will? Regret.... you have just as much right to S3 as W does. Tell your lawyer to get off

his / her arse and get it moving. 

Respect her as his mother but she is not your W anymore, she is not your friend.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Was it really worth creating that conflict with her? 

An apology that goes "Sorry, but . . . " is usually not very effective.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> STOP apologizing for doing what you think is right. I will say this until you get it.... DO NOT ENGAGE her
> 
> She wants you to engage her and yes, she knows just how to do it.
> 
> ...


You're right Chuck. I do have as much right to S3 as her and she's making it difficult.

I did tell her yesterday when she started with the nonsense that "i'm sorry you feel that way".

I will drop my son off today at the door of the apartment, she says anything, i'll replay "i'm sorry you feel that way".

unfourtunate this has come to this.

My sister in law said to me yesterday, "i still don't understand the ammount of hate she has towards you", i said, she expected me to lay down and accept her demands, after all i'm 100% responsable for the D and i'm responsable for not making her happy and setting her up for life ($$$), and since i dind't do those things she's now in a tough situation, the consequences of her decisión are biting her in the arse and she hates that"

like JLD said, she really, really didn't think this through when she though of D, she though of only one scenario favorable to her, i don0't get how can someone make a decision like D and not think of all the posible scenarios, only the one favorable to her.

if my self esteem was like 6 months ago i would think,"gee i'm must have been a monster of a H, since she wanted to get out as quickly as posible and din't think of the consequences or care", now i know that a lot of this is on her and her personal frustrations.

All things shall pass...


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

jld said:


> Was it really worth creating that conflict with her?
> 
> An apology that goes "Sorry, but . . . " is usually not very effective.


No it wasn't. I realized that. Now rereading what i wrote i didn't use the Word *but*, still. No more engaging with her. Not on my plans.

Focusing on time with son today.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Own your part of the mess.... it is her problem to own hers

Walking S3 to the door is trivial but it is where she tries to engage you

If it wasn't this, it would be something else. She is angry and in truth, not directly you

but at herself as well. But she will not own this emotion. She wants the victim chair all to herself.

When you decided to not be ran over.... she became enraged.

You only want your fair stake in the sale of condo and custody of S3. But you are still re-written as the a$$hole.

Keep learning....keep climbing.

Conflict avoidance may be a base for moral ideals but when you have to lay down and be walked 

on to do so..... is that healthy?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

When she asks what you're going to do with your son, tell her you're going to have some dad / son time. That's all she needs to know.

If she uses the lack of details to reduce the amount of time that you spend with your son, bring it up with your lawyer and take it back in front of a judge.

She is simply doing what you are allowing her to do.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> When she asks what you're going to do with your son, tell her you're going to have some dad / son time. That's all she needs to know.
> 
> If she uses the lack of details to reduce the amount of time that you spend with your son, bring it up with your lawyer and take it back in front of a judge.
> 
> She is simply doing what you are allowing her to do.


My brother ans sister in law have mentioned this wo me a few times, she has acted and intends to act this way because i _have allowed her to_ .

I have to be careful in the wake of the child custody hearing not to lie to her or misinform her regarding son wherabouts, she might use that in court to my detriment, but i also cannot engage her with ALL the information regarding son, it's a tightrope that i have to walk carefully. She's looking for me to fall and use it against me. I won't allow it.

Lawyer's on top of that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Its not a tightrope. It becomes a tightrope when you give her the smallest bit of information. Simply tell her you are having father / son time, and there is no way that that can be disputed. You are making this a lot more difficult than it needs to be. And that is why I say you have created this problem and allowed it to fester.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

If it is going to be a business relationship, then business relationship all the way. Polite, formal boundaries. Respectful, not emotional.

_Don't *create* conflict._


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Regret, try to remember that divorce brings out a lot of ugliness on both sides. Everyone is paranoid, nobody wants to get screwed. I understand, my divorce was quite nasty. But it's not in either one of your interest to have a war, so your goal is to walk a fine line of getting a fair agreement while preserving some peace. It's tough but it can be done, and if you have to give a little more then half to keep some peace do it. That's what my dad advised me to do and I did, I gave up things I didn't have to for some peace. It took some time but the ex and I get along pretty well now and our boys are better off for it. 

If your wife were here I'd tell her the same thing, but she's not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Regret, try to remember that divorce brings out a lot of ugliness on both sides. Everyone is paranoid, nobody wants to get screwed. I understand, my divorce was quite nasty. But it's not in either one of your interest to have a war, so your goal is to walk a fine line of getting a fair agreement while preserving some peace. It's tough but it can be done, and if you have to give a little more then half to keep some peace do it. That's what my dad advised me to do and I did, I gave up things I didn't have to for some peace. It took some time but the ex and I get along pretty well now and our boys are better off for it.
> 
> If your wife were here I'd tell her the same thing, but she's not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Life.

That's what i'm trying to do, we are to a point. We discussed briefly via voice notes the selling of the apartment. She has a 15K loan she took two years ago. About 9K were used to remodeled the apartment and buy new washer and dryer the rest to pay off her car loan debt and some credit card debt. Out of the selling of the apartment we were/are suppose to take 10k to pay of her loan, she told me yesterday that she wants the full 15K to erase her loan. You know what?, i said if that's what it takes to get this over with, fine, i won't fight you for 2.5 K, so be it. She's looking after my son's and herself best interest i get that but making it difficult. I would also have to ask for the money i put down as downpayment to be taken out of the sale of the condo, since i put down more tan her, but you know what, forget about that, let's Split the damn thing in the middle and everybody get on with their lifes.

I don't want to screw her really, she's the mother of my son, how could i, but i don't want to get screwed either.

I would really like to coparent with her in a civil way, i don't want this to escalate to a full war.

Peace.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Be fair, maybe give a little, but for both of your sakes, try to keep it equitable. You are both going to learn from this experience.

Are you going to move back into the apartment so that it sells quicker? You mentioned that at one point.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

jld said:


> Be fair, maybe give a little, but for both of your sakes, try to keep it equitable. You are both going to learn from this experience.
> 
> Are you going to move back into the apartment so that it sells quicker? You mentioned that at one point.


I''ll be fair and concede a Little, she's the mother of my child but she won't make out like a bandit like she thought.

At this point i won't be moving back yet. If the selling goes thru i won't have to and that's a big IF. She changes her mind daily, but i will send an email today to nthe potential buyer informing him how we are going to do this, see if he accepts the terms. I will copy her in the email so she's informed as well. She thinks i want to screw her out of this, no thruth to it.

Rhgit now we are in the middle of the child custody and visitation rights hearing, finally my lawyer gave me the date which is at the end of the month. No point in doing anything crazy 'til then.

If with the current offer she still refuses to sell then yeah i would move back, but not until the visitation rights trial is over.

Have to calculate my steps carefully.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes. Be careful. Be fair.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

There is a difference between being walked on and conceding for the betterment

Your boundaries are your choices. Enforce them when needed.

If she trusts you with S3 but has to know where you are at all times... why is that?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> There is a difference between being walked on and conceding for the betterment
> 
> Your boundaries are your choices. Enforce them when needed.
> 
> If she trusts you with S3 but has to know where you are at all times... why is that?


She doesn't trust me for the following reasons:

I didn't take care of her heart in the M (yeah i know...:scratchhead

Past history of white lies (childhood issues that i had yet to confront prior to IC, worked hard on changing that)

There were times when my drinking cause her grief and me saying that i would change that and didn't, at least not until the **** hit the fan back in september ( i have for the most part been sober with the ocassional drink or glass of wine), this has caused me truble in life.

There is no past history of me neglecting S3, not taking care of him, him being injured at my care or me drinking while with him, no when lived with them or afterwards.

I believe since she doesn't trust me as a man she generalizes that to every aspect of my life, fatherhood being one. I've always been a responsable father, always, but it's in her best interest to believe herself and make me and others belive that i'm not the most responsable parent, so she would get to have S3 most of the time, nonsense.

When the separation started and i took him out she didn't ask me where i was taking him, but i did tell her out of care and respect (my mistake) and she got used to it. Now, since i havent complied to her demands she's been a ***** and wants to make it hard for me as she believes i have made it hard for her.

She and her mom have become overprotected with S3 since all of this started and become more and more as time has passed, i understand that but don't approve of it. She has a lot of fear of uncertainty and i believe she might be passing that unto my son, she fears something happening to him, IDK, she's holding on to him tight.

I have been wanting to take him to the pool, she doesn0't trust. You know how much i had to stood my ground to take him 45 minutes out of town on a sunday family thing my brother's club had sometime ago, she didn't wanted me to go with him, she tought i was going to drink beer and not take care of him enough plus the 45 minute drive. There is no history of this ever happening in our 5 year M, never ever i drank with son around specially driving...except on his third birthday where i drank more tan i should and she asked to drive and i gave her the keys, i wasn't drunk but want's 100%. So she's basing her opinion of me on that ONE incident. Of course i understand her concern, but it is also very convinient of her to make believe that i'm not responsiblle enough so yeah she gets to keep S3 most of the time.

Don't forget that her initial child custody and visitation rights proposal only allowed me 18 hours a month with son, and every festivity, holiday and long weekend he was suppose to be where she was, and that's not not trusting me, that's being selfish.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

The white lies, did you start telling those when you and her started dating or after you got M?

Drinking..... did she drink with you before baby came? Did she drink with you after he was born?

It is obvious near the end she did not like you drinking. Did she ever ask you to cut back

or quit? If she asked you to quit, did you offer to cut back?


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

Hey Reg,
I've tried to keep up with your thread the past few days. Busy here to the point I can never just sit and type a response but I have to be honest...when I read some of your descriptions of her...what comes to mind are the thoughts that I've heard along the way that "anger is a sign that they still care." and "hurt people, hurt...people.
Not trying to redirect anything but that is just what comes to mind. When they don't have any animosity or venom...when they just tell you what they tell you and there is little emotion and they seem more bored with your responses...that is more concerning. I've seen it both ways in my wife. through our ordeal. There was the phase when she just had her headphones whenever I was around and the only time I'd get a response out of her is when I basically forced it which always made it worse. She didn't contact me, nothing, unless she had to. Didn't ask about my son or what we did. 
When we did fight...it was almost like a little relief because it was at least interaction. Then I started learning to let go. Then I found all the crap and the rest is history. But as we began to reconcile and open up and talk, whether I agreed with her or not...she felt legitimately hurt. She was ashamed for a lot of what she did but she hurt. I'll never forget the night I found out about OM and the EA. After the commotion, she just lied down on the bed and closed her eyes and said, "I just hurt."

That spoke to me more than about anything else. And that was before she left me, moved everything out, etc...so it was a turning point in how I saw things a bit, but not in how she felt still.

My point is, it does seem like she had enough issues within your M to feel the way she felt, and then they feel trapped in a corner and no longer think rationally, it is more "fight or flight" scenario and they choose flight...trying to end whatever the cause of the pain is. It isn't well thought out. And as her plans break down, you will at some point have to decide how to handle it...whether you want to use it to your advantage and get whatever you can from her...time with your son, owing her less money...whatever your options are at the time, or whether you want reconsider and see if the crack in her wall may somehow turn into a door.

My other question that I've wanted to ask lately is that through all this..what did you believe? Did you believe deep down it was going to work out no matter what, that you weren't going to quit no matter what...or not? That is where the "walk by faith, not by sight" part comes in...because what you see gives you seemingly no chance...but faith, which can guide your actions, can make a way where there seems to be no way.


Again, not trying to change anything, just wanted to ask and to share what I had been thinking lately. I think about your situation every day. I'll be honest...sometimes I just don't see it being over.

It will continue to take more strength, patience, humility (which you have to be strong to have) and compassion than you feel you have...but...well...anything can happen.

The part about your gay friend saying it is all about the money...I don't believe that...it may be in large part about their faith in your ability to provide for the family but that goes far beyond money. Some are schemers, sure. But not all. 

As for my situation, it didn't change for 8 months. But when it did, and after we talked...she said that my consistency spoke a lot to her...her first husband swore he'd never meet another girl...and then got married before we did after their divorce.

One of the scriptures that spoke to me in the Bible was the one about how we are to love our wives as Christ loved the church. I remembered that because even though the church didn't show the love they should have...and even though the church, I'm sure, hurt Christ through its actions...He didn't leave it.

I won't go down that road. I just wanted to comment and let you know I follow your thread and keep praying for you as an individual, as a dad and as a husband.

Take care my friend.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Such a beautiful post, Still.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> The white lies, did you start telling those when you and her started dating or after you got M?
> 
> Drinking..... did she drink with you before baby came? Did she drink with you after he was born?
> 
> ...



The white lies after getting married. There was one story i told her about my sister before getting married and the first year of marriage i told her the truth, it involves sexual abuse she suffered by my stepfather. When we met i told her something different and finally told her the truth the first year of marriage, but this was something difficult for me to talk about.

we drank a lot together, i called us "partners in crime" lots of great times together. She had no problems with it. After our son was born she stopped drinking and so did i, but i picked it up after a while a she did drink with me but she cut down a lot. She did expect me to cut down but a lot of times i did not, she did tell me and i said "yes, im sorry it wont happen again", but it did, i wasmt a bad drunk, i just was annoyingly funny and went to bed, she didnt wamt that. My mistake, for that im realy sorry.

I HAD to go to AA after separation since i did have a control issue. Now its under contrpl but i have to be careful, cant let myself go like that ever again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Why do you call them "white" lies?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Still.

You are right on so many levels, we have engaged a lot lately and seen a lot of her responses and reactions, more than in the last weeks. Where there was indifference before theres anger and unresolved issues now. She has given me a hard time regarding trust and not believing me lately. Its like we are going back to old conversations, weird in a way. Of course im in a different place than months ago. 

Do i still love her. Even with all the crap thats been going on lately and the stunts she has pulled i still do, i do love her and in some parallel universe i would do anything for her but after being thru so much i dont want to get hurt again, get some hope to have it crushed again.

My family is first, my boy is my priority and id do everhthing for him. 

W i dont trust, and she doesnt trust me either, sad but true. Its gonna take a miracle for us to even be on the same page.

we had two firm offers on the condo, both fell today. So i dont n
know.

THSNKS for your post you are the main cheerleader in all of this, your faith is tremendous. I pray to God everydsy to sho 0w me thr way, the path and to make us do the right thing.

deep dowm i still wanted to believe we will make it through somehow, i want to believe that still, but the more i see i dont believe it will be done. God has the last word.

Ill continue the path on healing and being a better human being. Its Gods plan. He has something beautiful for all of us. I wish the best for my W, really do. 

If you ask me until those signatures are on the dotted line...anything can happen


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

jld said:


> Why do you call them "white" lies?


Most were stupid lies like, did you give Son his medicine? Two times i forgot and told her yes. Or i took him to my mothers house before school but didnt tell her. Or i told her i was still at teaching and i was at neighbour having a beer and talking.

a lot ot omissions. I dont approve of those lies, they were bad and no justification, but i dont believe they were enough to D, if you add everything else she has her opinion i guess.

no cheating or other women were ever involved. 

Still i broker her trust i get how importsnt that is.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

How would you have felt if she had done these things to you--the drinking, the lying?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

jld said:


> How would you have felt if she had done these things to you--the drinking, the lying?


Disrespected. Not being able to trust her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Regretf said:


> Disrespected. Not being able to trust her.


See?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> The white lies after getting married. There was one story i told her about my sister before getting married and the first year of marriage i told her the truth, it involves sexual abuse she suffered by my stepfather. When we met i told her something different and finally told her the truth the first year of marriage, but this was something difficult for me to talk about.
> 
> we drank a lot together, i called us "partners in crime" lots of great times together. She had no problems with it. After our son was born she stopped drinking and so did i, but i picked it up after a while a she did drink with me but she cut down a lot. She did expect me to cut down but a lot of times i did not, she did tell me and i said "yes, im sorry it wont happen again", but it did, i wasmt a bad drunk, i just was annoyingly funny and went to bed, she didnt wamt that. My mistake, for that im realy sorry.
> 
> I HAD to go to AA after separation since i did have a control issue. Now its under contrpl but i have to be careful, cant let myself go like that ever again.


The drinking situation sounded a lot like Z and Tiger's situation

When Tiger stopped for awhile, she expected Z to as well...passive aggressive behavior

I'm glad you sought help on the drinking. I was just curious if she demanded you to quit

or to just cut back. As for the white lies.... you forget to do something.... just own it.

The real problem isn't you forgetting to take out the trash, it's you being scared of her reaction.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Exactly Chuck. Me scared of her reaction in a lot of situations and then "totally forgetting to tell her somrthing" knowing she would get upset. Anger management. Both our mistake. Bad comunication.

She asked me not tobget drunk, not cut down or quit just to not ?et passed it. I said ok but sometimes i just didnt knoenwhen to stop. Thats my bad again. AA has been a god sent. I finally got to admitbthat i had a control problem. IC also helped to distinguish why i got tobthat point. Trying to disguise past hurts and childhood issues. Grettimg happy drinking was my way of not being aware of the hurt. Plus it increased as things with W were getting worse. The head in the sand thing.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You being scared of her reaction is not "attractive" Owning your mistakes is.

Everything ended up a power struggle. No one ever wins in those. EVER

Cooling off...... working on yourself is what is best.

This is hard to do with condo $$ and custody disagreements. 

Maybe once these are settled the tension will dissipate.

In the meantime, protect yourself. Better yourself.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

BTW....your growth has not gone unnoticed.
Keep finding that calm place.
Dont let her get under yourskin.

She is hurt and she will try to communicate that by hurting you. Its a non verbal strategy infants use. "I hurt, therfore I show you I hurt by hurting you. Now we both hurt."

You can do this.
When you get a chance, read "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz. IT could really help you take a step back from this and save you some pain.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks Chuck and Samurai. Yes Z readbthat book i will pick it up.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Z and ReGroup are stories you are entering..... read, learn.....


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Good start of the week for everyone.

Had my son the last three days and we had a great time together, more bonding.

I have tried not to engage with his mother these last days but i couldn't resist to not answer back.

She's been more paranoid and overprotective with S3 when he's with me, something she didn't do when we were together or when we first separated. I reckon part of this is to give me a hard time, this has been going on more and more since i "took" here patients receipt book and presented it as evidence.

She wants to know everythig nwheni'm with S3, where we are, if he's eaten, how is he. I should not pay attention to her texts as she's both overprotective and a PITA and seems to want to disrupt me. 

S3 has been having a bit of a cough and on saturday i had him, so X texts me "do not take him into the pool" i said of "course not, i don't do things like that, if i tell you i am going to do something with him i do that and not something else".
She then starts babbling about the past and me lying and her not been able to trust me. I say i tell you where i'm taking him out or courtesy and respect for you but i don't have to. I drop it and procede to pick him up. Whe i arrive she wants to engage with me and starts telling me that until the child custody hearing she has S3 custody and that yes i should tell her where i'm taking him so she can decide if he's not in any danger or something. like a sucker i fall for it and start engaging with her and we get into a discussion in front of S3, her two big issues with trust have to do about one time two years ago she asked me not to take s3 into my mom's new apartment as it could have been full of dust, it wasnt and i took him and didn't tell her, bang WWIII happend and another time i forgot to give S3 his medicine and didn't tell her, my mistake, but she made a big deal out of it and there you go she doesn't trust me anymore. I then drop it again and leave with S3.

I know i should have left it at that but as my blood was boling i texted her saying "you should not talk to me about trust, heck you are going out in the morning all dressed up, if i was seeing someone or dating at least i would tell you, don't forget we are still legally married" i know, i know, i should have texted that, i realized that the moment i sent the text.

She calls me as soon as she reads the text to yell at me and insult me and tell me that "she's not seeing or dating anyone and that is a lack of respect on my part, that she would not tolerate it anymore", "that this is not the first time i have acussed her of doing something like that and that there is no justification and that she doesn't deserve this" yeah it turns out she went to the supermarket. My bad, i wanted to get under her skin, i did, but can't and won't do that anymore.

She goes from being angry one day to "normal" the other.

The rest of the weekend went on with X pestering and wanting to know everything about S3 every fricking two hours until i stopped her and told her to "let me enjoy my son, i don't bother you when you are with him", it worked for a few hours until she gave me the "I wish i wouldn't have to be on top of you, but the consequences of your past actions warrant that i do", ****, nothing, nothing i do is going to be good enough for this woman, she'll always pull stuf from years past, so i stopped engaging with her at that moment and kept on having a wonderful time with son, we did so much this weekend, visited relatives, took him to the movies, to a BBQ, park, we did some great father son time.

So the start of the week as me much calmer as i'm not fighting or having power struggles with the mother of my son, got to keep tha calm and cool.

Will get "The Four agreements" and do some Reading.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

How about trying active listening when she brings up the past?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

STOP engaging with her. You will understand why in ReGroup's thread.

Do you feel like you are talking to a 6 year old when you do?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Jld. All of this is text messaged. We seldom speak. I will remeber active listening next time


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Regretf said:


> Jld. All of this is text messaged. We seldom speak. I will remeber active listening next time


You can do active listening through text, too.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

The part about seeing your wife dressed up and reminding her she is legally married...I did the exact same thing. Not condoning it, I just did the same thing and got the same response. 

I agree with the active listening. If there is a lifeline to be had, you will have to be the one to throw it. Even if you don't want her back, it could be a step towards a healthier relationship whatever you choose.

Sounds like you are getting her to vent a bit. I don't personally think that is a bad sign. But without a lifeline, there won't be much you can do with her venting except trying not to engage and argue.

Just for the record...I don't actually know what the lifeline for you is. :-/
...a reminiscent joke about the past and then keep it light so she doesn't feel she has to defend herself
...a reassuring comment that she isn't crazy, we are all just human trying to do the best with what we've got and acknowledging that she's been hurt.
...just answering all her pestering and being to the point but consistent and kind...with the consistent part being the hardest probably.
...an option to consider taking a step back and a deep breath and realizing that marriage is hard but others have made it through worse if she ever wants to talk

...I really don't know. I'm pretty beat right now so take my advice with a grain of salt. I'm just saying that she seems to be engaging you more but can't be nice since she basically started this whole thing...based on what she has seen in the past she is rightfully afraid you won't significantly change. 

I guess, in the end, I'm for active listening, not making things worse...and if you want her to have one, a subtle gesture that she can be safe with you in the future.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> The part about seeing your wife dressed up and reminding her she is legally married...I did the exact same thing. Not condoning it, I just did the same thing and got the same response.
> 
> I agree with the active listening. If there is a lifeline to be had, you will have to be the one to throw it. Even if you don't want her back, it could be a step towards a healthier relationship whatever you choose.
> 
> ...


Thanks Still, as always great advice.

I will try more AL, i did this morning actually with some texts she sent me regarding some bills of my son that needed to be paid. It's hard a lot of times because ego and pride get in the way. She's hurt and i'm hurt too, but yeah i'm the man so i'm the one that's suppose to take the high road and lead by example, without getting screwed that is.

Glad you and your wife are better and better.

Will see my son again this afternoon so that always cheers me up.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> STOP engaging with her. You will understand why in ReGroup's thread.
> 
> Do you feel like you are talking to a 6 year old when you do?


I know, i know. I feel like i'm talking to a hurt person that sometimes acts like a child, even though i'm the one that's suppose to act like a kid according to her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Damaged people........... damage people

down the road...... you and her may talk civil and who knows

right now is NOT "down the road"


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Hello all,

Last couple of days it's been all good. taking my son everyday to school and saw him tuesday afternoon and will again today. Really spending a lot of quality time with him and being affectionate with lots of hugs and kisses. I know he's a boy but i love him so much, can't resist not showing love.

Looking for different career options as i want to improve myself in all aspects, and be really, really happy.

Went out the other day with a woman from my praying group, as friends, she's going thru a hard situation (though a lot of what has happend to her is her fault) a lot of support from her and i've given her lots of advice on her situation (pending divorce), she seems amazed on how much i know about the subject (thanks to TAM). That was a one time only thing as i don't want this friendship to go anywhere and it's not appropiate to go out one on one like that. So the support will be via text message. I realized it was a mistake to go out alone. I'm not divorced yet. And franlky not close to ready to go out one on one.

Yesterday was my praying group weekly meeting and that has done me a lot of good. Been given a have give a lot of support to different and from different people. That gives me a lot of peace. After the metting a bunch of people from the group went for dinner and had a great time. Talked about my situation and received a lot of support. This going out with groups of people does a lot of good for me.

Overprotective X again as on tuesday i took my son to his godmother's house, he's with some cough and can't get agitated or run. So we went to my friend's (his godmother's) playground and he playe dwith some kids, wasn't running but went down the slide twice. So when i took him home X send me a text saying "Not to be a pest, but S3 told me he was at the park" and i said "yes, he was at the park and he was playing with some kids ith his Tablet" and sent her a pic of him playing with other kids on his Tablet. She then texts " He told me he was running and went down the slide and went thru a tunnel", I breathed before textting back "He wasn't running, he went thru the tunnel once and down the slide twice". You see what i have to go thru? not to worry i answered her questions calmy and didn't engage.

Yesterday i wanted to see S3 and X took him for a haircut. I let her knoe i wanted to see him since i won't on the weekend. She ten texts me close to 4:30 saying "he's still with a cough and it's windy outside, it's better if he stays put so you can see him tomorrow". I replaied "I know he's been with a cough and he can't get agitated, but i'd appreciate if i could see him for a bit in the apartment then".

We almost got into a discussion because she said "not in the apartment". long time ago according to her, her therapist told her that me and S3 dates would be better "outside" the apartment, and she took that to heart, i seriously doubt her therapist said that. My IC told me, there's nothing wrong with me seeing S3 in the apartment as long as X is not present, so he won't get illusions of us back.

I said "why can't i see my son in the apartment?", tehers nothing wrong with that, where i see him is not an issue", she texted back "no, but your personality is". I had to stop it there i know, but unfourtunately i couldn't so i replayed "Don't tell me about personalities, i'm not the one with anger issues" and left it at that.

I know i can't engage with her and i try, i really do, but you see the crap i have to put up with?, My personality?, just because i went in and took her patients receipt book as proof for the child support hearing now my personality is the problem?, i though it was the therapist who said to do the dates outside the apartment.

Today i was calmer, took my son to school, said good morning to her and texted back like i always do to said S3 arrived well at school, and like she's doing since the patients receipt book thing, she doesn't replay back saying "OK", no prob. I still tel, her how S3 is regardless of her attitude.

Another day, another day.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Limit talks / texts to S3 only. It does not matter if she calls you the biggest bloc in the world.

Ignore those comments. This is similar to the "schit tests" Conrad spoke of.

Smile when she degrades you.... say nothing but "I'm sorry you feel that way"

50k ft..... observe, before you know it, what she says will mean very little


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Here is the link to Conrad's schit tests..... very wise words here

Have you finished Zs three threads? How about ReGroup's? Where ever you are at stop,

and read this one.....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Here is the link to Conrad's schit tests..... very wise words here
> 
> Have you finished Zs three threads? How about ReGroup's? Where ever you are at stop,
> 
> ...


I'm stil on Z's second thread, will catch up a lot on this weekend.

Interesting thoughts on the fitness tests or **** tests. I know women do test men and there's a fine line between standing your ground, being manly and firm without being an a$$shole and not being a doormat.

Will read more.

Good going Chuck.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regretf said:


> I'm stil on Z's second thread, will catch up a lot on this weekend.
> 
> Interesting thoughts on the fitness tests or **** tests. I know women do test men and there's a fine line between standing your ground, being manly and firm without being an a$$shole and not being a doormat.
> 
> ...


Conrad's been through the wars, more than I have.

Nothing beats experience.....


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your wife is not being reasonable. That is not unusual given her resentment. Just stay steady. You have already changed yourself for the better and will make a new life as a single dad. Your ex will come round to being a better co parent in time. But if not, you will not engage in discussions.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Regretf said:


> I said "why can't i see my son in the apartment?", tehers nothing wrong with that, where i see him is not an issue", she texted back "no, but your personality is". I had to stop it there i know, but unfourtunately i couldn't so i replayed "Don't tell me about personalities, i'm not the one with anger issues" and left it at that.


I wouldn't discount the claim of a personality clash. One of the things that tipped my over the edge of leaving was playing with the Meier's Briggs Personality Test and realizing that my H is stuck with his argumentative non-empathic personality FOREVER and will never change and I don't want to be married to that. We are incompatible.

He claims he's ENTP ENTP Personality (The Debater�) | 16Personalities but when I did the test with my perceptions of him I get ENTJ. Either way; loves to argue and chronically insensitive to the feelings of others.

And I am INFJ- extremely sensitive and feelings oriented.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

In my country we do not make as much as in the Us. I make about $2,300 a month before taxes. So yeah 800 for a small child here is a lot


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

I dont love to arguee and neither am i insensitive to the feelings of others.

But yes our personalities clash. Shes more of a type A and me more of a Type B.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

How are you holding up Regret?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Im all right Chuck. Didnt see my son this weekend so that was a downer but im holding allright. Will expand more tomorrow.

Thanks for checking up on me.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Blonde said:


> One third does sound steep for one child. His size/age does not change the amt of child support (in the US anyway) until he reaches adulthood (when C/S ends).
> 
> In some ways small children are far more expensive than older ones. My teens eat more and have more pricey hobbies but a 3 year old needs daycare since you are working parents.


In our country CS increases as the child gets older as there are other expenses, say school. So if i were to pay $800 now that is under 4 years old when he gets say 12 years old i can't imagine how how much i would have to pay.

So yeah, $800 now for my S3 is too much, way too much. It still puts me (us) in a rogh situation because i want to provide for my son always, and i don't want him to miss out on anything. But if i were yo pay $800 i coudln't have a life onf my own, very difficult to buy another place or get on with my life.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

After all the engaging my W or STBXW and i had last week, the last two days of the week were ok, no more arguing or fighting, it takes two to fight so. 

Met with a friend of mine who went thru a divorce maybe two-three years ago and he had some very good advise. His was ten times much worse, as it involved cheating on his XW's part with a minor and her being maniac-depressive. he has custody of his 5 year old boy and i'd think that gives him strenght. Anyway, good talk with him.

Had a "discussion" with X via text on saturday regarding the selling of the apartment and that turn into something else with each other typing resentful things, once i realized we had gotten into it again i stopped it and let it go. I believe there are so many things that we asume and things left unsaid in this situation, but as part of my detachment i can't get into those, better to let go of my feelings good or bad for my W.

Saturday saw me talking to another friend of mine about a bussiness opportunity and went out with some friends later in the night. Flirted with some women but then realized i'm not even close to being ready to even date, but yeah, it felt good for awhile, to kind of be myself again after so long.

Today picked up my son to take him to school and i gave him a hard hug when i saw him, missed him a lot this past weekend. X was in one of her "better moods" and texted back when i texted her that son arrived well at school, whatever.

Have IC today so that will be interesting.

Overall i'm ok, not "there" yet but i'm doing allright considering the situation.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

How are things going with your lawyer and getting 50 / 50 custody?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> How are things going with your lawyer and getting 50 / 50 custody?


The court hearing for the custody and visitation rights is on the 30th. Lawyer and my witnesses will get together this friday to plan out what to say.

In my third world country you cannot get 50/50 custody unless the mother concedes it, at least not for a child that Young. That is why i'm really upset. More tan losing my wife is losing out on so much of my son's life, everyday things. When he's older he may want to live with me, but now being under 4 i'm missing out on everyday things that i used to do/have with him. Try not to think of it 'cause i get really depressed.

My lawyer and i are fighting for the right of having my son sleep over on my weekends, that is the main thing on that trial and prevent my X of getting away with things like she did taking my son for easter.

I don't want to talk about other cases here or anywhere because they are all different, in the US you usually get 50/50 not here, that's why i believe than in most cases is easier for the woman to initiate the divorce, i mean usually mothers keep the children and are rewarded child support and i some cases alimony, don't matter, i will fight for more time with son and i will be there for him regardless.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

What country are you from? PM if you need to


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> What country are you from? PM if you need to


Panama.

Yesterday was my IC. The therapist said i have come a long way from the anxious, scared, full of guilt and depressed human being i was back in october. She sees me more calmed, in charge of my life and not afraid of the future.

Discussed in detail life with my son and my coming child visitation hearing next week. She gave me some great advice on how to handle myself and what to say come the trial.

She really doesn't know why X doesn't trust me regarding S3 as i have told my therapist everything and to her i haven't done anything that warrants my X overprotective and scared ways, something that has increased as the separation has gone on.

With all my drinking habits i never drank in excess when i was with son, almost never drank actually, and nothing ever happend to him or has happend to him while in my care, never neglected him but X has to put me into a bad light, since i was a bad husband according to her i also must be an irresponsible father.

I will ask to be first option to take care of my son when W can't, as her parents are doing it right now and it's only natural that the father should be the first option. IC also told me that there is nothing that says that her parents or herself are more responsable with S3 tan say my mom or myself.

IC agrees with me that X has a lot of resentment because when she first thought of D she though that me being "inmature" i would have made this process easier on her, you know, sell her my share of the apartment for 15K, accept her $800 a month child support request and only see him 18 hours a month, every long weekend and holiday he would spend with her until he was 6 years old, and of course i would have been an idiot to accept that, since i didn't she resents me. IC said that she doesn't understand how my X thought i would accept that, neither do i.

Like i said on my previous posts there hasn't been any engagements between x and i and i plan to keep it that way, at least until next week when the child support hearing comes.

I need to be prepaired for that as X is gonna come out swinging at me and try to put dirt into me to make me look not responsable, i don't want it to go that far but if she does i have things to say and prove that she won't like. Sad to see it go this way, she has chosen to make this a war and i have done my share too, mostly to defend myself, i wish we could have handled it better.

On we go. And we havent' even filed for D yet.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It is about control, Regret.

Your wife is scared of the future due to uncertainty. So she controls the one thing she can control, which is time with your son. 

Additionally, because she is hurting and blaming you, there is an edge to how she is doing it.

It really is that simple.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> It is about control, Regret.
> 
> Your wife is scared of the future due to uncertainty. So she controls the one thing she can control, which is time with your son.
> 
> ...


Yeah FSJ, it is like that. I don't get how she didn't think of the consequences when she first thought of getting a D, divorce has consequences and mostly bad. You know, a part of me still loves her as a woman and of course she will always e the mother of my son, but for all my faults, shortcomings, childhood issues and mistakes i did had in my M, it saddens me to end up like this, you know, i will always wondered why she didn't fight it more for us, for our son, maybe in her head she did, and maybe we are just incompatible and she knew after 5 years that she wasn't going to love me anymore, but damn it was worth a shot, at least to say "we tried everything".

Now i want this to be done, move on and live a healthy fullfilling life with my son, i have no ill towards my X, i really wish her the best, for my son to be OK she has to be OK, right?


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Hey there, Regretf,

I have been reading but have been on TAM only off and on. I just wanted post to say Hang In There. You are growing and getting stronger each day. 

Good luck at the hearing!


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks Rose.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

Thinking about, and praying for you, Reg. And your son and wife.

Just keep becoming the man you are growing into. 

Don't let her see you sweat and hurt but when the times come, show love. If nothing else, it will help you more than it may help her. And the time may likely still come that you will decide if you want to make things work.

With all that we've been going through, while I am texting this message to you, my wife texted me she loved me. Out of the blue. That is the first time. We've been "working on things" for the past what...2 months now?

Either way you choose, go slow. And every time you have the chance, show love.

It isn't easy. It takes resolve and strength half the time, but it does get easier and like I said,if the only person it does help is you for now, then it is still worth it.

Have a good weekend my friend.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Regretf said:


> Now i want this to be done, move on and live a healthy fullfilling life with my son, i have no ill towards my X, i really wish her the best, *for my son to be OK she has to be OK, right?*


Yes. 
It takes a lot of maturity and forgiveness to realize this. Bravo.

Your wife should also realize the same: that you need to be OK in order for your son to be OK. Maybe it's time to sit down and have this conversation. Forgive each other, and put your son's needs first. Move on with forgiveness in your heart, it will result in a happier life for both of you, but most importantly, for your son.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regret..... what happens anytime you converse with her in person?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

How are you doing, Regretf?


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

I've been thinking about you to, Reg. Pretty much a bit every day. How are you?


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