# How do you "break the news"?



## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Wife and I have been in counseling a year. Counselor has said point blank that most couples with our issues would divorce.

Every day that goes by, wife says "I just realized another thing we do together that I hate." Claims that everything we built together as a couple, she only did because "men like it", whether it be sex, going on vacations, paying taxes on time, repairing old cars that she insisted on keeping because she hated replacing them...mostly stuff that she pushed to do, and now says "that wasn't really me". 

Has said repeatedly to me and the counselor that her life was perfect before she "screwed up and got married". I finally asked, in the counselor's office, why are we still married? If you don't like doing anything with me, and singledom was so much better, why have you not filed for divorce? "I can't afford to live on my own. I only have $150k in my bank account." I tried to explain the 50/50 law in our state, but she wasn't listening...she'll have plenty to live on.

So...I think I have to file. Do I tell her ahead of time that I'm going to? Do I tell her I hired an attorney? I actually don't have to in this state. And ours will be simple - no kids, no debt.

What did you do? How did it work out? File papers, then tell spouse, since the spouse will then get served? Tell spouse ahead of time, then file? How did it work out?

I figure I'll draw up an assets split proposal to go with the filing...I think I have to anyway, right? Should I just head for 50/50 right away, or begin a "negotiation" by asking for more. I kind of hate to do that since she has zero self-esteem, feels like **** for having never bothered to become capable of decent paying work and probably would expect to receive less than half. Currently I'm not working, she is, so a court would probably not find for alimony (per web pages I read posted by our family court system).

TIA


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Just tell her, but be ready for the war !!


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

You said you have a lawyer, you really need to follow their advice. That is what you are paying them for.

You have described your wife as very obsessed with money, she seems to have a pathalogical need for the security she thinks money can provide. She is not likely to settle for less than she is entitled to.

How long have you not been working? Is this considered "permanent" or are you planning to return to work? The answer to that will impact any possible alimony.

As for how to tell her, there is no easy way so just be honest about it.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> You have described your wife as very obsessed with money, she seems to have a pathalogical need for the security she thinks money can provide. She is not likely to settle for less than she is entitled to.


 @kristin2349 makes a good point. It is possible she will see this as suddenly having half of "the money" gone and that might destabilizer her even more. 

@DustyDog She should receive all that she in entitled. 50/50. Don't play the crap games of negotiation (start low etc.) She is only 40 yo right? I scanned your posts and did not catch your age.

As to your question, I have no divorce experience but if my wife wanted a divorce I would want her to tell me first rather than just hand me papers.

Slightly deviating from your question, but has she or you explored medication for her anxiety and OCD. I have seen first hand how it can make a world of difference. I see you are enlightened and try other methods (mindfulness, mediatation etc) so I just want to make you do not ignore or discount a pharmaceutical approach. 

I think you already made of your mind to go, but consider this. If your wife had a physical illness that could be cured or at least managed much better through medication, you would not hesitiate in the least to get it for her.

Then don't be so quick to dismiss your wife's actions. She may be affected by a real mental illness that is treatable. Upgrade from the counsellor to a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is an MD with much more training, and has the ability to prescribe medication. The time for getting reading list of books is well past. 

After you tell your wife you want a divorce, she may panic over the money and ask you to reconsider. Make it a condition that within 30 days she sees a psychiatrist and if meds are prescribed, then give it another 60 days for the meds to take affect and see any change in her. 

This is assuming even just a small part of you would want to remain married. I have seen people's lives transformed for the better through proper meds and counseling, both in my personal life and profressional life. Heck you can even start divorce proceedings and continue your plans for separation while she gets on the meds, so no time is lost if it does not work out. Make sure you tell her that YOU will pay for the psychiatrist and the meds, and please do.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I just left the house one day after I was fed up. Told her I was going to live on my own and we could see if R was in the cards. Of course I knew R wasn't going to happen and she figured it out within a week. $7K in attorney fees, we were officially divorced 6 months later.

If I was you, I'd get all of your important items out of the house that you can't live without. Put them in your car, in your office, your mother's house, or your bud's house. Then I'd break the news to her before going to work. I bet she'll be relieved. Sounds like she doesn't have the courage to do it herself, so she's hoping you will.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> I just left the house one day after I was fed up. Told her I was going to live on my own and we could see if R was in the cards. Of course I knew R wasn't going to happen and she figured it out within a week. $7K in attorney fees, we were officially divorced 6 months later.
> 
> If I was you, I'd get all of your important items out of the house that you can't live without. Put them in your car, in your office, your mother's house, or your bud's house. Then I'd break the news to her before going to work. I bet she'll be relieved. Sounds like she doesn't have the courage to do it herself, so she's hoping you will.


That's sort of how I left the last one. Chose the day. Packed appropriate stuff in my car, parked it behind our usual Friday chips-and-salsa place, had a friend take me to work...then home a bit early. We took her car our for our usual Friday thing and I laid the news on her. "For five years you've said if I don't like it I should leave because you can't change. I have decided to accept your offer." Paid for the meal, got in my car, stayed at a friend's house. Over the next workweek I moved all my stuff into storage while she was at work. But...by her choice, we were not married and all I had to do was walk away.

This time...oh, the depths of complexity.

I run a business from the house. The acreage is needed to perform open-space acoustic and electric field testing on products in development. The lab and inventory are here. She has a regular day job that she hates.

She "hates" the house...said so right after we moved in. "I never wanted to own a home, this is the last thing I wanted! They take too much maintenance and are expensive!" and "All this land will eat us alive in maintenance costs!!!". When angry, she often says "This isn't how I live my life, it's too complicated, you keep the land and I'll find a condo downtown." So, I doubt she would want me to leave her the house and land. I do all the maintenance and upkeep inside and out, and if I go, she'll have to figure it out.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Sammy64 said:


> Just tell her, but be ready for the war !!


I can't really imagine a war. Her response to anything she's not comfortable with or doesn't want is to clam up, hide in a cave, do nothing, become stagnant. The only time she "snaps into action" is when she reads something in an alternative-ish newsletter that tells her some household chemical is the spawn of the devil and she's mad hatter finding every drop of it, and every cleaner that might have some in it and telling me to get rid of it so she doesn't have to touch it. Usually chemicals she chose and had been using quite a while. Kind of funny, actually.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> @kristin2349 makes a good point. It is possible she will see this as suddenly having half of "the money" gone and that might destabilizer her even more.


Possibly. The anxiety and fear seem to simply be. The only times I've seen her anxiety about money subside, and then only very briefly, is when I undertook a massive career transformation and got a job at double pay that was less stressful. That seemed to last a few weeks. No matter what's in our accounts, no matter how many financial advisors say we're fine, the anxiety just grows - with age, I think. 

More than once, she's clearly stated that "having no job" puts her in fear. The marriage counselor asked about impeding retirement, and she said "we'll never be ready". Somehow, her sense of something - control? - is connected to knowing that a paycheck, issued by a company, can be counted on.

Getting her to even acknowledge the existence of the savings and retirement accounts - that's rare. The strong pull seems to be a regular paycheck.



blueinbr said:


> @DustyDog She should receive all that she in entitled. 50/50. Don't play the crap games of negotiation (start low etc.) She is only 40 yo right? I scanned your posts and did not catch your age.


60, both of us. And, as I read documents on the webpage for my state's family court system, any decisions that a court makes re: alimony will take into account that a person can take Social Security payments at age 62. She'll react vigorously to that, insisting that "I would never dream of taking SS until age 70", but I doubt that would sway a court.



blueinbr said:


> As to your question, I have no divorce experience but if my wife wanted a divorce I would want her to tell me first rather than just hand me papers.


Well, usually a process server does the handing, which is why I kind of think I'd like to tell her a day ahead of time that she should expect it.



blueinbr said:


> Slightly deviating from your question, but has she or you explored medication for her anxiety and OCD.


She is opposed to any form of psychotics...the only "drugs" she takes are Chinese herbs and mineral supplements...and she takes lots of them.

But, more importantly, this topic of her fear/anxiety is discussed in counseling and she is dead-set firm on it being a *good *thing, not a bad thing, why are you being mean and saying I should look into it? She believes a life well lived is one of ultimate predictability, so you can reach your grave without getting hurt first. People who seek thrills, action, make long-term plans - they've got ego problems, per her. "I'm not the one with a problem."

I'm not great at detaching, but getting better...but even then, I observe the household and what it's like to have her as a roommate, and beginning to ask why I would choose her instead of someone else. If I try to listen to music in the house, and turn it up loud enough to hear anything other than the loudest instrument, she complains. I have the piano wrapped in layers of blankets to muffle it so she can tolerate me playing/practicing. Every horizontal surface becomes storage for her stuff. Every seating area has a dog bed on it, and lots of dog hair.

When we first met, I was drawn to her calm demeanor, soft voice and obvious attempts to be considerate of others. I did not realize that she demanded this of everybody else in the world, or she would not be willing to get out of the house. You'll find it in other threads, too, that the intimacy in the first several years was of a calibre and frequency that led me to believe "this will never be a problem" and then five years ago she dropped the bomb that it was pretty much just for show. I don't *need* sex, but contemplating life without it ever again is not delightful.



blueinbr said:


> I have seen first hand how it can make a world of difference. I see you are enlightened and try other methods (mindfulness, mediatation etc) so I just want to make you do not ignore or discount a pharmaceutical approach.


Not many folks make that observation, thanks. I would have no problems with pharmacology - I take Adderall for symptoms akin to ADD myself. It's not a fix, but it helps about 20% in the productivity department.



blueinbr said:


> I think you already made of your mind to go,


I'd rather not. But where we are now is a common place - she's stuck and we're not moving and this could last for 40 more years with no change. I connect "no change" with death...as Fr. de Mello says, "the rock does not change. The tree changes. Which is alive?" We have a history of projects she begins, and encounters a stumbling block, so she starts another one.



blueinbr said:


> but consider this. If your wife had a physical illness that could be cured or at least managed much better through medication, you would not hesitiate in the least to get it for her.


I agree. But for this kind of disorder, the patient has to cooperate by at least acknowledging that it's a problem. She's actually cut back her visits to the counselor on the grounds that "she's not helping, she's making me feel guilty for being sensible and careful."



blueinbr said:


> Then don't be so quick to dismiss your wife's actions.


Didn't think I had dismissed them. I think, in fact, I'm quite accepting that they are what they are and will always be there..growing and occupying more of the emotional energy in the house. 

I have to decide, for me, if I want to continue living with them.



blueinbr said:


> She may be affected by a real mental illness that is treatable. Upgrade from the counsellor to a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is an MD with much more training, and has the ability to prescribe medication. The time for getting reading list of books is well past.


LOL! She has a reading list, and reads by flipping through the book and picking random pages. After ten, she "knows" the author's approach. Any author who suggests it's possible to overcome fear and anxiety, she dismisses as "just another quack relabeling a positive characteristic as a problem." Getting her to an MD for anything is difficult, but a psychiatrist? Not likely.

I will go to any doc I think might help, get advice, choose to follow or not. But I don't have the power to get her to one - after all, that's her business, not mine.



blueinbr said:


> After you tell your wife you want a divorce, she may panic over the money and ask you to reconsider. Make it a condition that within 30 days she sees a psychiatrist and if meds are prescribed, then give it another 60 days for the meds to take affect and see any change in her.


Panic over money, I'm sure. She's already in a panic. Which is odd for someone who claims she can live on $15k a year if she didn't have a house.

I hate ultimatums - they seem like a horrible way to get someone to behave the way I want...which itself doesn't feel "right". But if she opens the door by asking for R, I might work that end of it. I'll have to be convinced that there's hope, though, and by that I mean ask the counselor what she thinks...is this something she's seen get helped by meds, etc.

A deeply held widespread fear of everything, I was told by the psychiatrist who did my intake for ADD, is the most difficult thing to grow past, because the sufferers of it aren't the people who have it. The person who has it thinks of it as merely living a careful and prudent life. It's the rest of their family who suffers.

It's not helpful that the few friends she has, are actually worse than her - several of them are so convinced that the s** will hit the fan soon, and they live 50 miles from anywhere, growing all their food and making their own energy, just to survive. She admires them. They encourage her.



blueinbr said:


> This is assuming even just a small part of you would want to remain married. I have seen people's lives transformed for the better through proper meds and counseling, both in my personal life and profressional life. Heck you can even start divorce proceedings and continue your plans for separation while she gets on the meds, so no time is lost if it does not work out. Make sure you tell her that YOU will pay for the psychiatrist and the meds, and please do.


We don't have a "me" and "her" account. Any money that's spent comes from one place and she considers it her domicile. I've never cared whose money it is - the fact that I earned it all until 6 months ago doesn't make me feel more connected. I thought we had established a good "us" back at the start, but as time went on her fears got huge. There was a time that even if I simply filled the car with gas, she wanted all the details on what research I did to make sure the gas station I chose was the cheapest one in town and did I read the news to see if something's happening in the Middle East that might lead to lower prices next week? At least that level of minutiae isn't happening...although I think it would if she didn't have a day job.

I want to remain married. I want to lead an active life with my wife. I want at least some intimacy. I want to believe that she wants me with her. I want to think that I matter more than money or the dogs. Based on a year in counseling, it's unlikely that my wants will ever rise above the effort required to keep her fears from overtaking everything. But...that's only my current opinion. As you say, the shock of having papers presented may spur her into action...although it never has before.

She likes to say "I follow my gut", but the only message her gut ever says is "get out, don't do it, walk away, take no action now". It never says "you have to do something about this" when it comes to human relations.


Good points there...and I'm not countering them, just thinking aloud and wanting to see if my comments spur more creativity from you. I appreciate it.

DD


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

So, really, the bottom line is that she has some fairly serious mental health issues, likes who she is, and has no desire to seek treatment because she sees her issues as positive traits. You've realized that you can no longer live with these issues, have seen some other signs of incompatibility, and feel it is time to end the marriage because it will not improve without her being willing to seek help.

You say she doesn't want the house because of the upkeep and expense, while you need the house because of the business you own. So, she shouldn't contest possession of the house and land because it's beneficial to you both that you stay and she go.

I think you should file and tell her the day before she gets served or early on the day she will be served. After you've told her and she's been served, you can start to discuss her moving out etc.

ETA: How Did You Break the News?

I just spit it out the first time. He asked for a year, promised to change, I'd just had DD2, so I agreed. A year later, I told him it was definitely over, although neither could afford to file yet.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

If you've tried everything else then prepare for divorce. Have her served. It may be the kick she needs to take therapy more seriously as well as start with meds.

Between the time she is served and the actual court date you can determine whether or not to follow through if she makes progress.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> "I can't afford to live on my own. I only have $150k in my bank account.


God, I wish I had these problems.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Starstarfish said:


> God, I wish I had these problems.




If you have good physical and mental health consider yourself very fortunate. I would trade all my wealth in an instant to have my wife return to good health.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Starstarfish said:


> God, I wish I had these problems.


Ber in mind that she'll be 61 this year. Health insurance at this age becomes much more expensive. A company's health insurance rates are based on average age of employees. Hers is a small employer (12 people) and so far, nobody has been kept on payroll past age 60. The reactions you get from possible employers past age 55 are remarkably different...you're not going to be there for the long term, they think, and it does cost more to insure you, so there really is a bias. She sees that, and is already loaded with money fears, so this increases it.

$150k is what she'd have to live on for 10 years, as she sees it. $15k per year. Health insurance alone will eat up most of that. I'm painting the picture from her end, here. I think in fact, the company will keep her because she's done some killer improvements while being paid minimally, and in fact, she won't leave the D with $15k, it will be a lot more due to the 50/50 split of marital property.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> If you have good physical and mental health consider yourself very fortunate. I would trade all my wealth in an instant to have my wife return to good health.


Blue, this is one of the things that has me thinking I want to make a move sooner than later. I'm in good health now, but things are catching up. Skin cancer is now a part of my life, and I've injured my back a few times. If she takes, say, 5 years to finally be un-fearful enough to actually go on hikes, mountain climbs, etc with me - I'm not sure in 5 years that my back won't have given out.

I am so with you on this. For me, all it took was my first cancer surgery in my 30s for me to realize that money just isn't important to me. Which, oddly, made it easier to take the risks in the market that put us where we are. But I just did it without attachment or emotion and if I lost the money, no biggie.

Which is why, while she has gotten MORE anxious about money, I move away more every year.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I understand that. 

This is not a case of infidelity. If she has no clue or expectation that a divorce is coming, tell her in person.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> Wife and I have been in counseling a year. Counselor has said point blank that most couples with our issues would divorce.


Relationships only take two individuals being nice to each other, in the present moment. They are seemingly easy, but one or both individuals decide they can't be nice to another person.



> Every day that goes by, wife says "I just realized another thing we do together that I hate." Claims that everything we built together as a couple, she only did because "men like it", whether it be sex, going on vacations, paying taxes on time, repairing old cars that she insisted on keeping because she hated replacing them...mostly stuff that she pushed to do, and now says "that wasn't really me".


Her pride mind is taking over and is pushing her to distance herself from you. Her mind is filled with illogical rants and her authentic self is buying them and allowing them to be voiced.



> Has said repeatedly to me and the counselor that her life was perfect before she "screwed up and got married". I finally asked, in the counselor's office, why are we still married? If you don't like doing anything with me, and singledom was so much better, why have you not filed for divorce? "I can't afford to live on my own. I only have $150k in my bank account." I tried to explain the 50/50 law in our state, but she wasn't listening...she'll have plenty to live on.


My question is why you thought counseling was a good idea, when she has no intention of listening to any advice or working on the relationship?


> So...I think I have to file. Do I tell her ahead of time that I'm going to? Do I tell her I hired an attorney? I actually don't have to in this state. And ours will be simple - no kids, no debt.


You are overthinking it. You want to file. File. You can tell her ahead of time. It is an emotionally smart thing to do.

"I'm going to see a lawyer, and you will be served next week."

You might question what to do if she reacts negatively. The "what to do" doesn't change.



> What did you do? How did it work out? File papers, then tell spouse, since the spouse will then get served? Tell spouse ahead of time, then file? How did it work out?


My old self was so afraid of telling family that a relationship had failed. It dragged on way too long, through way being cheated on way too many times. It won't go well, but this is the healthiest thing you can do. Your overall stress you encounter will be less, if you just approach the subject in a logical fashion

Less thinking. More doing.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Relationships only take two individuals being nice to each other, in the present moment. They are seemingly easy, but one or both individuals decide they can't be nice to another person.


Awesome stuff there, thank you so much for chiming in!

Maybe I'm selfish, but I want a bit more than just two individuals being nice to each other - if that's all it took, then I had thousands of good relationships during my career.

For the relationship at home - not just intimate parts, but "doing life together", I also want someone who would rather have me around than not, who prefers having me with her when doing things...and me the same with her. But...maybe I'm expecting too much.

As conversations have gone on, she more often claims that "this worked better when I was single". 

I have come to realize, based on her comments, that when we met, she was at an experimental stage, attempting to have a larger group of friends and engage with the world, and I guess now, she's decided it was a bad thing to test, and has failed, and she should return to her hermit-like ways, of which I was unaware before.



Relationship Teacher said:


> Her pride mind is taking over and is pushing her to distance herself from you. Her mind is filled with illogical rants and her authentic self is buying them and allowing them to be voiced.


Don't know what "pride mind" is, and the word "authentic" has become so much a buzzword lately that I don't assume anything when it's used unless defined.

But...it's pretty clear her self-esteem is in the tank. What has been revealed is that her childhood was one of strict obedience, with no room for the children to be whoever they would normally be. The only thing she can see in life is obey the rules...and I don't lay down rules. I can now see that the only relationships she has been able to maintain over the years are non-egalitarian. Boss/subordinate. Parent/child. Even with her own siblings, the only way she approaches those relationships is that she plays the role of mom, telling her siblings how to live their lives - and then acting angry when they don't obey!

So...she's never learned how to collaborate with an equal. She's proud that she works better alone at work than in a team...based on how she's struggled to do projects with me, I can see that...if it's not a way she invented, she can't grasp it, so it's not collaborative at all.



Relationship Teacher said:


> My question is why you thought counseling was a good idea, when she has no intention of listening to any advice or working on the relationship?


I had no idea that was the case. When we met, she talked the big line about communicating being important, and sharing everything, and her being honest to a fault and "don't tell me secrets because I just say everything that's true anyway". Well, it turns out the people-pleaser in her can't tell some things - like that she just cost us $20,000 due to a blunder...I get to find that out by seeing the bill. Not that it mattered to me, and she could have known that...she's the one who felt sick over that error.

It has only been by observing her avoiding me and the counselor that I have concluded that she's not willing to work on it.

What she says about it is "we can't spend the money and I don't have the time..." again, she's not really honest about it, IMO...she uses excuses to avoid saying she doesn't want to work on it.



Relationship Teacher said:


> You are overthinking it. You want to file. File. You can tell her ahead of time. It is an emotionally smart thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

DustyDog said:


> For the relationship at home - not just intimate parts, but "doing life together", I also want someone who would rather have me around than not, who prefers having me with her when doing things...and me the same with her. But...maybe I'm expecting too much.


You are not.



> As conversations have gone on, she more often claims that "this worked better when I was single".
> 
> I have come to realize, based on her comments, that when we met, she was at an experimental stage, attempting to have a larger group of friends and engage with the world, and I guess now, she's decided it was a bad thing to test, and has failed, and she should return to her hermit-like ways, of which I was unaware before.
> 
> ...


That is what I call the programmed mind, or the inner voice. It is prideful and tends to give bad advice and push you into bad outcomes.

"Authentic" is who you are, without the ramblings of the mind. Watch the movie the Green Mile, and look at the warden's wife. When healed, her authentic self was allowed to break through.


> But...it's pretty clear her self-esteem is in the tank. What has been revealed is that her childhood was one of strict obedience, with no room for the children to be whoever they would normally be. The only thing she can see in life is obey the rules...and I don't lay down rules. I can now see that the only relationships she has been able to maintain over the years are non-egalitarian. Boss/subordinate. Parent/child. Even with her own siblings, the only way she approaches those relationships is that she plays the role of mom, telling her siblings how to live their lives - and then acting angry when they don't obey!


Exactly! She was programmed, and the only thing knows is boss/subordinate. As long as there is care in her, you (most likely) can navigate the situation. 




> So...she's never learned how to collaborate with an equal. She's proud that she works better alone at work than in a team...based on how she's struggled to do projects with me, I can see that...if it's not a way she invented, she can't grasp it, so it's not collaborative at all.


You have to break through her negative emotional reaction. Step one is maintaining yourself and not having one of your own, in response.



> I had no idea that was the case. When we met, she talked the big line about communicating being important, and sharing everything, and her being honest to a fault and "don't tell me secrets because I just say everything that's true anyway". Well, it turns out the people-pleaser in her can't tell some things - like that she just cost us $20,000 due to a blunder...I get to find that out by seeing the bill. Not that it mattered to me, and she could have known that...she's the one who felt sick over that error.


That was what she "thought" was important. Individuals that begin dating tell each other things that make them seem more desirable. She didn't tell you what her programming would carry out. 

Let me give you an example. A radio show was having their attractive host go on a date with a lucky male caller. They narrowed it down to 3 male callers, who were all divorced. The radio show asked each of the males to name a flaw of theirs. Not one of them said anything. They just said "uh, I can't think of anything." Yet, they were all divorced. This is exactly why I tell individuals to not hold their partners to their words, especially early on. One has to see through some of the hype.

Your partner might have known communication was important, but had no real intent/habit to carry that out.


There is the programming and what we think we should say. Without training/experience, the words are meaningless.


> It has only been by observing her avoiding me and the counselor that I have concluded that she's not willing to work on it.


This is why I work with individuals. If there is a couples counseling session, it is worthless if a partner is not participating. It tends to just feed frustration to the one that is wanting to resolve things.



> What she says about it is "we can't spend the money and I don't have the time..." again, she's not really honest about it, IMO...she uses excuses to avoid saying she doesn't want to work on it.


The time...... and if you questioned her usage of time, that conversation would degrade very quickly.


> I overthink everything that's new to me...and I'm OK with that. I still make mistakes, but I can make them and do it knowing that I'd given it enough thinking to be sure I probably never would have avoided the error.
> 
> But...I don't want to file...this line of thinking is only a couple of weeks old...I don't want to be single, I love to share life, I only recently realized she probably never will...not looking forward to having to dive back in, as I am not good in the social world.


If there is no hope, then there is only the logical thing to do. In this case, you'd have to get uncomfortable and file.

If there is hope, then you consider if you have the strength to carry out the effort needed to carry some of her burden.



> Hey, can't a cerebral high-IQ geek spend even a week thinking about how to go about a major life change?


Think about it, and then when you are done thinking of something new, come to a conclusion.



> I've embraced de Mello's spiritual awareness and detachment...my stress isn't too bad....I'm more stressed about how I'll handle after than seeing what little is left of her go.
> 
> I have never been afraid of telling my family anything. And I don't see relationships as failed or successful. If I go to a car dealer and test drive a car, and don't like it, that's not a failure...it just wasn't what I wanted. And now, it seems this relationship does not offer what I want. No failure. Just life.
> 
> Thanks!


You have a pretty darn good outlook on life. Always look to learn, but more than that, look to build new habits and kill the old ones.

I wish you luck.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> I understand that.
> 
> This is not a case of infidelity. If she has no clue or expectation that a divorce is coming, tell her in person.


Well, she's used threats of divorce as an attempt to get me to comply with her demands since the second week we were married. In the early days I suggested, as gently as I knew how (which wasn't that gentle - I'd be better at it now), that I advised against giving such an ultimatum, because when given one, I tend to pick choice B. Don't make the threat unless you're OK with the other person accepting it.

The D word has been used in counseling - by her, not me. She mused once in the office "How do you know?" and it took the counselor 15 minutes of soothing her to get her to answer the question "know what?" and she said "If it's time to divorce". I asked her later why it took her so long to answer the counselor's question and she said "seems pretty obvious, the counselor was too stupid to know that's what I meant. We're in marriage counseling, of course both of us are thinking of divorce."

So, it's not as if she hasn't thought of it. I have never used it as a threat, but I have told her that my patience isn't forever, and it's been a year and I don't see much progress. But...no deadline, no threat.

I see the counselor individually, and I have begun to ask just this sort of question - at what point can I be fairly certain that I've given the relationship enough time/chance and that the best way to take care of myself is to do it without her. Kind of a nuisance, since I get 45 minutes once a month with said counselor....


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

DustyDog said:


> Well, she's used threats of divorce as an attempt to get me to comply with her demands since the second week we were married. In the early days I suggested, as gently as I knew how (which wasn't that gentle - I'd be better at it now), that I advised against giving such an ultimatum, because when given one, I tend to pick choice B. Don't make the threat unless you're OK with the other person accepting it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just my opinion. If you are still having sex, tell her about the divorce before she is served. If no sex, just have the papers served. It is common decency. 

Of course, all this assumes you already know you want to divorce.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> If no sex, just have the papers served. It is common decency.


OK, I'm blind or lost...how does not having sex and how you deliver the news "common decency".?


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

klondike said:


> If you're screwing her then be nice and give her fair warning.
> 
> Something like "I just counted two orgasms, is that right? Anyway, the papers will be in your hand tomorrow morning".


Might just be me, but my sense is "Ick". IMO, that would make sense if:

1) One assumes sex is for the benefit of the man only
or
2) Sex is the top priority of a marriage

Maybe I have excessive aspirations for the glory of marriage beyond the physical act described, but I hope I can live the rest of my days without pinning so much on sex.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If the "D" word has already rolled off of both of your lips both during counseling and out of, then merely saying it to her in the due course of telling her should be no real surprise!

To that end, you need to lawyer up immediately and I would not recommend living under the same roof once you offer her your pronouncement!

And if perchance you have kids that are grown or even still at home, they as well, need to be told ASAP!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Dog, it has been two weeks. Have you decided?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *If the "D" word has already rolled off of both of your lips both during counseling and out of, then merely saying it to her in the due course of telling her...*


*

Somehow I don't think Dusty's wife will see it this way, Arb. Maybe I am wrong, but she strikes me as all talk, as a protection measure. I think she will have a melt down of epic proportions when she is served.*


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