# Ladies: Need Opinions - When is a secret "crush" too much?



## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

A year ago my "perfect marriage" spun out of control. Married in 2005, two kids, 4 and 2 years old. Wife said she wasn't happy, then I did some Facebook snooping, found out she was ready to leave me, and that she had gone to see a former boyfriend while visiting her parents 2000 miles away from me. More snooping and I found a personal journal (an online diary) where she said all sorts of horrible things about me, and also talked about this other man constantly, even mentioning "I can't stop thinking about his penis" etc. 

She also wrote about not sleeping with him, which was a bit of a relief to me, and also "I don't think I can ever love another man as much as I love (other man)" and "I do not know if I'm depressed because my marriage is really as bad as I think or if it because of him." (Him being the other man). She also mentions how ashamed she feels about her feelings for him, but it went back and forth. She's had the journal for years, but I always respected her privacy, till things really went to shxt for us, I read about 3 months worth and it was awful for me. My wife was extremely pissed off that I read this "private journal", and stated that she posted things there that she was too afraid/ashamed to bring up in person, and that it helped her to get it off her chest. She has a very timid personality, does not like crowds, hates confrontation, etc. I am 99.999% sure she didn't sleep with him when they visited, unfortunately because she rocked my trust, it destroyed our foundation, and I don't know that I can ever be 100% sure. I am trying very hard to rebuild things now.

She met this other man online 12 years ago, went to see him after one month, they slept together, then he disappeared, wouldn't return calls, would not answer her emails, basically screwed her over, quite literally. Then a couple weeks later he finally communicated with her and said he "had met someone else", a girl he later married. The other man is still married, with two kids. When I confronted my wife about visiting him, she said it was "unrequitted love", but then backed off that and said that she "needed closure", yet she goes back and forth, removing him from Facebook, adding him again, and constantly searches him on Google, and other web social spots, like Linked In, etc. She makes sure her computer history is deleted now because she says she has always done that (she hasn't) and says it helps her computer run better. 

As far as the two of us, she says she loves me but she doesn't know how she feels beyond that. I am totally in love with her, and I have told her that I am in this marriage to the end, that I will not leave her, because it appeared to me that she was trying to make me the bad guy, to blame me for all the woes of our marriage. I am not perfect, I am dealing with issues I brought back from Iraq, some PTSD and anger issues, never hit her, but my immature anger responses combined with her personality made her feel very belittled and unappreciated. I have worked VERY hard to fix that and show her how much I care.

I am trying very hard to be patient in all of this. I never cared if she was friends with an ex boyfriend until she went to visit him, that crossed the line, especially combined with her hiding it from me, all while deciding that she was going to leave me. Now it eats at me, I try to avoid looking at her phone and internet history because I want to trust her, but when I have moments of weakness I find that she's still constantly looking at anything related to him online. Near as I can tell, other than a comment here and there from him on Facebook (maybe once every week or two weeks, public comments), the other man doesn't really stay in any contact with her. I know she's removed him from her Facebook from time to time but she always seems to come back to friending him again. I try and talk to her about it but she always has excuses about "Oh he's only a friend" or "I would feel bad if I blocked him" etc. 

I really want her to get over him, I don't feel like her contact with him is okay given the feelings she has for him, she tries to deny that she's still in love with him, but her behavior seems to show differently. I believe her feelings for him are hindering out ability to have a complete and meaningful marriage, and I am wondering what I should do at this point, what is acceptable, or how long I should wait?

Was I wrong for reading the journal? Am I ignorant for trying hard to avoid her phone/computer history at this point? I never attempt to read her journal now because I look at it like a Pandora's Box and nothing in it would likely help my situation. I feel like a sap and that I've been reduced to something less than a man by all of this, that standing up for myself will result in nothing more than losing my wife and kids. 

Am I out of line for feeling betrayed by her personal feelings for this other man, even if the other man does not reciprocate the feelings?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She's delusional. 

You are NOT out of line. She is having an emotional affair and cheating on you. And she's completely in 'the fog' of the affair.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

I wanted to add this in: There is a really big reason why I want to be very patient with her.

I wasn't the best boyfriend when we first got together, I held onto my previous girlfriend, talked to her on the phone late at night after my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I had movied in together, even told my ex I still loved her, I was trying to keep two women happy at one time, a huge mistake. It was an EA, and it was really poor judgement on my fault. My gf (now wife) put a keylogger on the computer and confronted me about the issues, and I cut off all communication with my ex gf, committed myself to my current relationship, and did everything I could to make it up to her. We got married about a year later. 

The only contact I've had with my ex was one facebook message that I told my wife I was sending, because a mutual friend had died of ovarian cancer at 31 years old and I was expressing my condolensces.

So I'm willing to be extraordinarily patient as I was not the best boyfriend early on. I just don't know how patient I can be. One thing I never did was visit my ex gf, nor do I have any desire to, or to even contact her.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

No. You were DATING her when you had issues with your ex.

She is YOUR WIFE and she thinks of another man's penis. WAKE UP.

Divorce her and let her have this other man who is 1.married and 2. doesn't give a rats ass about her. He slept with her and avoided her and she pines over him. Wow. She has issues.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You’ve been abused and betrayed for many years and you are still living with and giving love and comfort to the woman who abused you and who betrayed you.

Painful that. Very painful and deeply wounding.

But she hasn't as yet hurt you enough such that you end your marriage.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

how long are you going to beat yourself up about something that you clearly feel bad about and actually did something to change? You said yourself that you cut off communication with this ex and did everything to commit to the marriage - and yet you're using this as a stick to beat yourself with and a reason for putting up with this sh*t

no my friend, she's a lying, deceitful cheater and this isn't going to get better whilst she's talking about it being 'unrequited love', believe me

what happens if he snaps his fingers - she'll go running right? Are you really going to wait around for that to happen? Find someone that loves and respects YOU, not some other dude
x


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Ending my marriage is not something I want to do, at least not right now, I love my children too much and I am happy a lot of the time. The crappy part of all of this is something I can't even explain to her: She's pining over someone that doesn't even exist. She's thinking of this guy she met 12 years ago, and this dream of what he's like, and he's NOT that guy. 

He's apparently having major issues in his own marriage now (wow, big surprise), which is likely what's got me more concerned recently. She's really not a horrible person, but she seems to believe that it's okay to carry on feelings about someone as long as she keeps it to herself. I know though that when you split your heart between two people you can never fully love one or the other, I personally know that from what I did when we first got together. 

I just don't know how to talk to her about this, it's like I can read threads by other people on here and provide advice but maybe I'm just too close to the fire on this to think straight


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

Po12345 said:


> I wanted to add this in: There is a really big reason why I want to be very patient with her.
> 
> I wasn't the best boyfriend when we first got together, I held onto my previous girlfriend, talked to her on the phone late at night after my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I had movied in together, even told my ex I still loved her, I was trying to keep two women happy at one time, a huge mistake. It was an EA, and it was really poor judgement on my fault. My gf (now wife) put a keylogger on the computer and confronted me about the issues, and I cut off all communication with my ex gf, committed myself to my current relationship, and did everything I could to make it up to her. We got married about a year later.
> 
> ...


Your bad actions do not excuse hers. 

that_girl is right. EA. "Secret crush" makes it sound innocent. I am amazed at how tolerant and calm you are. Lying, cheating, betrayal, wow.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

She doesn't recognize what she did/is doing as an EA. Maybe what I need to do is find some sort of productive way to communicate this without it turning into a huge blow up where she threatens to leave me... she continues to insist that she didn't do anything wrong, other than stating she shouldn't have hid it from me, but even then she makes excuses "You would have been so pissed off" to which I finally said "You say I would have been angry, but let me ask you: What man or woman for that matter, would have been okay with this?" and that sort of tripped her up a bit.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

I just fear for you - you say he's having troubles in his marriage

be honest with yourself, what do you think is going to happen next?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I think you need to be very upfront with her that she needs to get her closure with him, and move in with her life with you, and cut off all contact, and that said closure needs to be transparent, you need to know what it is, this "patience" is going to eat you alive from the inside out. You are not wrong, yes maybe she had some issues from the beginning of your relationship and maybe there is more an what you see, also I think that it is foolish to think he has not communicated back,people get the hint very quickly if another party is not interested and will not continue to pursue, in some way shape or form, he has left an open invitation to her contacting him. You need to be very cler about the boundaries you want and the expectations of what you want in your marriage. I also understand the looking at the computer once you find your spouse hiding something it is hard to not look, and you have every right and reason to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

The word 'Secret' is very dangerous. It allows them to have a fantasy relationship and leave you on the outside. Anything that goes on between them that is 'secret' especially, is very dangerous. If Your spouse is keeping secrets, this is a HUGE RED FLAG.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Po12345 said:


> A year ago my "perfect marriage" spun out of control. Married in 2005, two kids, 4 and 2 years old. Wife said she wasn't happy, then I did some Facebook snooping, found out she was ready to leave me, and that she had gone to see a former boyfriend while visiting her parents 2000 miles away from me. More snooping and I found a personal journal (an online diary) where she said all sorts of horrible things about me, and also talked about this other man constantly, even mentioning "I can't stop thinking about his penis" etc.
> 
> She also wrote about not sleeping with him, which was a bit of a relief to me, and also "I don't think I can ever love another man as much as I love (other man)" and "I do not know if I'm depressed because my marriage is really as bad as I think or if it because of him." (Him being the other man). She also mentions how ashamed she feels about her feelings for him, but it went back and forth. She's had the journal for years, but I always respected her privacy, till things really went to shxt for us, I read about 3 months worth and it was awful for me. My wife was extremely pissed off that I read this "private journal", and stated that she posted things there that she was too afraid/ashamed to bring up in person, and that it helped her to get it off her chest. She has a very timid personality, does not like crowds, hates confrontation, etc. I am 99.999% sure she didn't sleep with him when they visited, unfortunately because she rocked my trust, it destroyed our foundation, and I don't know that I can ever be 100% sure. I am trying very hard to rebuild things now.
> 
> ...


"am I out of line for feeling betrayed by her personal feelings?"
WTF??? Her PERSONAL feelings are that she LOVES another man!
Are you serious? You have to take the bull by the horns here and do it yesterday.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Dollystanford said:


> I just fear for you - you say he's having troubles in his marriage
> 
> be honest with yourself, what do you think is going to happen next?


This is exactly what I have the most fear about, but she repeatedly tells me that she can't and never would be with him because of what he did previously... But she still stays in contact with him which has to be incredibly conflicting, I KNOW THIS, I have been there. 

I can't make her stop talking to him, I can only express my displeasure with it, she has attempted to break away from being his friend several times, then she goes back again, I REALLY dislike Facebook. It seems to be the cause of so many problems for people, our relationship is no exception. 

A counselor is the person who recommended I just say to her that "You can be friends with whoever you want, but I really don't like that you are friends with him", that way it puts the ball in her court, and she won't have that "secret" appeal. 

It has worked to some extent, she is a lot more open to talking to me about him, and what is going on with him, apparently he's out screwing around on his wife with at least one younger girl, perhaps another. That's actually been a good thing for me because she sees him in a more correct light as the person he really is. 

There is one point I really want to stress here, the really innappropriate stuff that I have seen was all from her journal, not anything she ever said to him, and no one ever saw her journal except for me briefly. She tells me repeatedly (and also in the journal) that she would never ever cheat on me, but her inability to see that she was in an EA is the big hurdle that I see, in terms of us getting back to a productive marriage and moving forward. She needs to somehow realize she is not the victim in all of this.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> The word 'Secret' is very dangerous. It allows them to have a fantasy relationship and leave you on the outside. Anything that goes on between them that is 'secret' especially, is very dangerous. If Your spouse is keeping secrets, this is a HUGE RED FLAG.


I meant secret as in, even he doesn't know about it. She keeps this completely to herself. I know about it because of the journal. She has him as a friend openly on Facebook, and they don't discuss anything in private messages, he just posts up a comment once a week or so on her page. I'm not sure he even knows he is stringing her along.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I think you need to be very upfront with her that she needs to get her closure with him, and move in with her life with you, and cut off all contact, and that said closure needs to be transparent, you need to know what it is, this "patience" is going to eat you alive from the inside out. You are not wrong, yes maybe she had some issues from the beginning of your relationship and maybe there is more an what you see, also I think that it is foolish to think he has not communicated back,people get the hint very quickly if another party is not interested and will not continue to pursue, in some way shape or form, he has left an open invitation to her contacting him. You need to be very cler about the boundaries you want and the expectations of what you want in your marriage. I also understand the looking at the computer once you find your spouse hiding something it is hard to not look, and you have every right and reason to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm going to talk to her tonite at dinner, my mother is going to watch the kids and we are going out for dinner and a movie. I'm first going to ask her if we can have a deep conversation without her getting angry, then ask her what, in her words, would be the way we fix our marriage and get to where we need to be. I have never really put the ball in her court that way and I want to hear what she has to say about that. I think I can get some good production out of the conversation if we go that route.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

Also, I appreciate your input, it is good to know I'm not going insane, needing personal counseling for my PTSD stuff is one thing, but high anxiety and depression issues when my self esteem is shot, that's from my relationship. I'm way too hard on myself through all of this.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Oh I understand anxiety and depression and the constant cyle of wondering, been there before myself which is why I replied, I think your plan is a good one. Also maybe marriage counseling together is a good idea, certainly helped my husband and I during some trying times before, and helps us still to this day if an issue aisles because we are able to communicate better, once we reopen the lines of communication.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

She seems obsessed with this other man, amazing too since he treated her like garbage. Perhaps she just has a thing for the bad boys.

You two both need to get some IC. That needs to start right away.

If she does go to him, you need to have the willingness to divorce her on the spot. No second chances if she goes. Normally I'm a big proponent of trying to salvage marriages, even if they are in distress... but she has what I can best describe as a fixation on this man and she can't seem to let go of it. So if she goes, let her go. She will have made her decision. You should also let her know that if she goes to him, this marriage is over.

She needs to stop all contact with the OM, and she needs to never look him up again. I would even consider asking her to take a 1 month break from Facebook entirely. 

I would also make it clear that any further communication with the OM, will result in a separation. If you do go this route be willing to back that up with action. She clearly has got her mind fixated on this man and imo it will take something serious to jar her out of that.

Perhaps others more knowledgeable can comment on whether or not my actions would be too strong or inappropriate?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Po12345 said:


> I meant secret as in, even he doesn't know about it. She keeps this completely to herself. I know about it because of the journal. She has him as a friend openly on Facebook, and they don't discuss anything in private messages, he just posts up a comment once a week or so on her page. I'm not sure he even knows he is stringing her along.


HE doesnt matter. Dont you see that? Its HER feelings you should be concerned with. She is obsessing about him in a 'secret' journal. 
You need to deal with YOUR WIFE.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Actually the problem right now is your boundaries. She has none. She has disrespected you for years.
Just expressing that you do not like what she is doing and having no consequence is very weak indeed. No we cannot control people. However we have to have personal boundaries and right now you choose to accpet her behavior. So you will not be able to work on the marriage until you can get yourself in order. She will not respect you as long as you do not respect yourself. The fact that she can be unfaithful to you yet you feel guilty for reading her journal says it all. She has no reason to change. You are not attractive as you do nothing about it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She needs to block him from her FB completely and forever. No contact or no marriage. Tell her the choice is hers but you wont tolerate an open marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Po12345 said:


> I meant secret as in, even he doesn't know about it. She keeps this completely to herself. I know about it because of the journal. She has him as a friend openly on Facebook, and they don't discuss anything in private messages, he just posts up a comment once a week or so on her page. I'm not sure he even knows he is stringing her along.


He should not be a FB friend. She needs to block him. Blocking works both ways. She will not be able to see him.

You seem to be justifying this because the current OM is not immediately interested. So what? This is way wrong. She is completely unfaithful. It is your wife that matters here.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

The crush wouldn't concern me so much as the "secret." But she doesn't have a crush, she has an unhealthy obsession.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

When did she see his penis to be thinking about it?

Was it just with her a whole decade, or did something refresh her memory?


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## Peachy Cat (Apr 15, 2012)

Having a private journal or private way to express herself is one thing; I believe that can be healthy as long as it doesn't involve an actual person. HOWEVER, it's only a "good" thing if the relationship between the two of you is BETTER because of it.

In her case, it sounds as though she has replaced communicating with you with writing about "him".

I'm sorry you're going through this.

FORGIVE yourself for being an idiot while you were dating--you've more than made up for it and your wife (girlfriend at the time) at least KNEW you were being a jerk; she's been hiding her stuff--she's been a sneaky jerk.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

How did your dinner conversation go?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

So the general consensus is that it is time for me to put my foot down and tell her to get rid of him as a Facebook friend. I've been thinking about this a lot the last month or so, and I agree. What I posted here was more an explanation about the way things were. I do have a personal peer counselor here where I work (military) and she thought that by putting the responsibility in my wife's hands, that she would lose the ability to have this little 'secret' because he'd be out in the open. In some ways it has worked, she seems far more willing to communicate about him now with me, and isn't hiding his comments on her page. There is nothing innapropriate about their conversation, but the fact that she still continues to obsess and search for his social pages online constantly, nearly every day, is a problem. I haven't even read her journal since I found it that first time last March, because I'm trying to respect her privacy and build trust back, and I don't know that anything I find in the journal could be that helpful (pandora's box so to speak), but in some ways I'd like to have the entire several years of the journal just saved onto a disc, and NEVER look at it as long as our relationship is good, but if things really start going to **** and she wants to blame me, I would need that disc to prove why things happened like they did, that my own actions were in most part reactions to her behaviors. I hate thinking like that, or even wanting to do that, but I sometimes wonder if that would be a smart move on my part.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

livelaughlovenow said:


> How did your dinner conversation go?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dinner conversation went well, we discussed a lot of stuff but it was very hard to get into talking about him because to do it right, really required a good set up, and the damn waitress kept coming over and blabbing about everything from children's movies to music, and everything else. Sort of ruined the flow of the evening. If it had been like a first date I'd say the waitress was a "cxck blocker" haha.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

We ended up seeing a movie that should have stunk, Cabin in the Woods, but it was actually hilarious, in a morbid macabre sort of way, totally unexpected.

My wife and I are still best friends, we do have fun together, she is still the first person I want to talk to when I'm happy or upset, and I know she feels the same way about me, so we have all that going for us, but the intimacy is a problem, mostly the intimate communication, from her side.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Maybe this is just a fantasy of hers and you need to bring her back to reality....another poster on here suggested lovepong.com I'm trying it with my husband....try it with your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You know what will give her motivation to ditch her pining for the OM and work on you? Facing real fact that if she doesn't she will loose you.

Right now you have convinced her it is perfectly safe for her to act like this, and that you'll be a good puppy and accept it.

Stop accepting it and tell her that you won't be a husband living life as her second priority. 

She is fence sitting and continuing to fuel her desire for him. She has created an EA that should in second take PA again.

And you aren't liking it, but you are giving her a free pass to do it.

Why woud she want a man who would accept that? She's chaing this other guy who treated her harshly and as an option, for him she pines. You treat her nicely and give her secrecy, and she has no love or respect or desire for you.

You sir have chosen to e a doormat because you a afraid of loosing her. But you already have lost her, and you won't ever get her back if you keep on being a doormat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

She is insisting that she has no romantic desire/inclination towards this person. I know they are not talking privately, either by phone or text/email. I'm working now to try and get her to open up more about what she writes in this journal of hers. I don't mind that she has a private journal, but if she's writing her concerns down in the journal rather than talking about it with me, that's not a productive way to get to a healthier place in our marriage. 

It appears my other problem is my current personal counselor. I go through the military on base counseling right now, and it seems all he wants to do is repeat what I told him and offer no opinions at all as to what would help us as a couple. It is almost as though he's afraid to go out on a limb and actually offer me advise. The only thing he will say are things like "Well, it appears you both still have communication issues you need to work on" yah no shxt? 

The big thing I'm realizing more and more, is that my wife seems to have problems even being honest with herself. Marriage counseling did work somewhat for us but I know I got a lot more out of it because I opened up completely, but it appeared my wife's inability to do the same held us back. It is better than it was in the last few months, but she'll go from being more open to suddenly shutting down for a period of time. That's pretty frustrating.


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

So, long talk tonite. 

Started by saying I think we've come a long way, that we do communicate better, and that I'd like to continue things. I also stated that I have a real issue with her being friends with this other guy. Conversation started to spiral, I squashed that, stated that I don't want to fight about things, that her friendship with him is merely one issue related to deeper things that we still need to work on.

She again brought up what happened before we got married, even talked about things her mom had said to her growing up that hurt her deeply, I finally stopped her and said "I can't apologize over and over again for things I've done in the past, especially those that occurred before we got married, we can never move on if you continue to hinge your expectations on what happened back then, and not the person i am now." 

Then things got extremely emotional for her, she said "I'm scared that you are only being nicer now to get what you want, that if things get better you'll take me for granted again." I told her that it has been a year, that if she really believes that the only reason I'm handling my emotions and treating her in a more mature manner is to trick her into staying, then we will never fix anything. I also stated that if you really trust me you have to trust me enough to realize that I'm doing this for myself AND for you, and for everyone I'm around (I had some real anger issues, not explosive "I will kill you" type of stuff, just muttering f bombs and getting upset about really stupid crap, didn't work well with my wife's personality). 

I again told her that her friendship with this other guy on Facebook bothers me, and also that it wasn't the interaction, but the history that i have a problem with, and how our trust was broken due to a situation that related to him. She started to break down again and talk about how "Today was such a great day, I didn't want things to be like this" to which I replied "Today is still a great day, there is really nothing to be upset about, I just want you to know how I'm feeling, I want things to continue to get better, I know they will" and I smiled and gave her a hug, then went out to play with the kids. 

I know I didn't address the guy maybe as strongly as I should, but the fact that I was able to address my feelings on the issue was a good start for me (believe me, considering being such a pansy lately about other things) and I plan to continue making strides.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I applaud you for getting help. I know a lot of military won't even consider getting help because it gives them a bad reputation and makes them look weak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Po12345 (Apr 28, 2011)

diwali123 said:


> I applaud you for getting help. I know a lot of military won't even consider getting help because it gives them a bad reputation and makes them look weak.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I felt like I was clinging to the end of my rope, losing my grip on my sanity and maybe my life, so i didn't have much choice. I am likely going to try and switch my care over to the VA in order to try and get more focused help with the PTSD and perhaps a better personal counselor.


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