# Ready to Give up on her



## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Background: I was married at 19 and a dad at 20. After several years of marriage realized she was mentally unstable....got help and she was taking medication...then refused to take it which landed me in divorce. Which was the best decision I have ever made. However, I was a single dad with a 10 year old girl and mommy moved overseas. 

I started dating an old girlfriend from high school and we hit it off, like we picked up right where we left off 14 years ago. Everything was fantastic. We seemed to be so in love and then we were engaged......and began to start trying to have a child. During ALL of this....I'm guessing we had sex 3-4 times a week...and that included the side dishes that go with the main meal.

Then she was pregnant....and it was like a switch had just been turned off....I assumed it was hormones and the pregnancy so I stood by her and pretended I was fine and no big deal about the lack of sex and intimacy in the relationship. Then came Birth.....again I understood that, that whole region had been through alot and it would take months to recover. So I stood by and was patient.....Then our son turned 6 months....and I was fed up. I couldn't believe I still wasn't have sex with my wife. I could count on one hand how many times we had had any kind of sexual contact in the last 18 months.....

I brought this to her attention, and she said that she just didn't have the desire or drive and would be just fine not having it at all. To which I said....well that creates a problem for me because "regurgitated the 2 years prior" and I was losing patience with it. I even stated that if she "loved" me she would want to please me...even if it wasn't something SHE wanted to do. Which of course started World War III. So I think we fought for a week meaning we didn't speak to one another. And I finally said I'm signing us up for counseling.

We went to a therapist and agreed to attack this problem as a couple rather than me vs her. Which was great...it was exactly the problem. It was never her vs me, it was us vs it.....or so I thought.....

We agreed to pencil in friday nights as sex night meaning no matter what, it is set in stone...every friday night. And anything that happens in between is just like a bonus. I told her I would be fine with 1 time a week and spontaneous things in between.

It has now been a month since we saw the therapist....we have had sex 1 time....and I'm out of ideas. 

her OB/GYN thought maybe it was her Birth control or hormones...so she stopped her BC 3 months ago....and her blood work came back normal on her hormones....which leaves me to believe its simply her and there is no changing that.

I know it has been over 2 years since oral sex, and we have had actual sex only 12 times in the same amount of time.....

When I asked her about it the other day she said....I gave you a handy last week, do you need it everyday??

That response to me was all I needed to hear, to know that I'm screwed.....

advice??


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If she won't participate in a sexual relationship with you then you need to decide whether that is something you want to tolerate in a marriage.

Sorry.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I won't tolerate it, but I keep hearing....that I'm being selfish for that because the kids will be destroyed and I feel guilty now for wanting sex.....and honestly feel myself slipping into depression over it all.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You shouldn't feel guilty for wanting to sleep with your wife, for wanting to have sex with your marriage partner--it's human nature to want that intimacy with the person you're closest to.

You need to address this with her and tell her how serious you are--that you don't want to live in a sexless marriage, or in a marriage where you feel like your feelings don't matter (and her dismissing this need/concern of yours w/o really trying is flat-out deprioritizing your needs in the marriage).

Are you still going to counselling? Does she understand you're at your wits end?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I've told her and the second I bring it up she gets defensive and hostile. I go to bed every single night alone because she is up with the baby until 3am....I've told her for months that that alone is a big part of the problem...she stays up with the child until 3am then sleeps until noon. I work 8-5....so it has also caused me quite a bit of problems with sleeping as well. She is fully aware I'm at point break yet she does nothing to make it better.....I know I can't force her but she told me she doesn't want me to be with her if I'm that unhappy.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Do you help her with the baby at all? 

And you're right--you cannot force her.

So if the status quo continues, you need to decide if you want to stay in a marriage where there is hardly any sex.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh sorry I forgot to include, no we are not going to the counseling...I gave up on that when she couldnt' make it a month with the new routine that the counselor suggested. I'm also not suppose to text her about this issue...we have a little diary that we write to one another back and forth in...which she also neglects for days at a time.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Yes I help quite a bit. M-F is shot because of my work but I usually get home around 5:30 and make dinner, then spend an hour or so with her and the baby and then I'll take him for another hour or so by myself while she does whatever....and then I get an hour or so to myself to either catch up on paperwork or house stuff, maybe tv or something and then its bed time. On the weekends I get up at 8 and do the dishes, laundry, and whatever else I can get done to make it easier on her as well.....


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

It just kills me, I don't regret my son but had I known, this would be the result of us having a child, I wold not have done it. We were so happy before and so "active".


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How old are you guys? How long have you been together/married?

Could she be suffering from depression?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm 34 she is 31. We were highschool sweethearts but went separate ways when I joined military. then 14 years later got back together. We have been together 2.5 years or so...>WAY too short a time to be not having sex.

Her doc also thought about the depression....and she has been on anti-depressants for the last 3 months...which I know can lower the drive as well....but the drive wasn't there before....


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MotoD,

Sadly, this happens a lot. And you can take it from me, the kid(s) are more than worth it. Maybe if you and your wife were to take a marriage education course that would help her see and maybe even agree to her responsibilities in your marriage


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I agree kids are worth it....I have a 12 year old from the previous marriage and as bad as it was....I was still having some form of intimacy....On a scale of 1 to 10, with my wife, we are at 1....maybe 2....and I can't stomach through that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

1 to 2 for what? THe frequency? How much you enjoy it?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

For our level of intimacy, Granted for men I think alot of that is derived from sex, but we don't even lay together...I go to bed 3 hours before her....we don't kiss....or touch or anything....the Frequency of 1 time ever month or two, I also can't tolerate....and even when we do, its like its a chore for her...and she is just doing me a favor....which makes the experience that much less enjoyable.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

She sounds like a bait and switch candidate.

I don't believe it's depression. The way she answers your questions IMO prove that. She basically told you deal or GTFO. Who does that?? If you had a shred of feelings for your husband you don't tell him to get lost if he doesn't like the dish you're serving. It's cruel.

I think you've done plenty. You sound like you've tried different methods to get to the root of the problem to solve it. Thing is, you can't fix selfish and/or self centered people. They actually have to see the hurt they're causing AND want to change the status quo. She doesn't sound like she's wanting to bother.

I'd take her up on her offer. I know you have a child to care for, but the truth is this is a marriage, not some roommate arrangement. If you knew that's what you were signing up for, you wouldn't have done it.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Serious bait & switch here.

You're going to have to impose a serious threat to her neat little tidy life if you ever want to have a decent sex life again.

If I had had the discussions you have as well as opened the door for counselling as you have and she's still the same my next step would be divorce papers.

Have her served D papers and see if she's willing to toss her life & family away due to frigidity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I actually mentioned to her that a marriage with out sex is simply a business arrangment where the business is raising the child.....and I am not willing to do that. When I talked about leaving, she asked if I would be able to pay for the kid's food and diapers until she figured out what to do.....Not the answer I expected......I mean of course I would, Other than the intimacy our relationship was perfect......I just can't figure out how to deal with this one demon.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

This may be totally left field but... is it possible she's having an affair? Or giving her affection to another man? 

Her response to you about whether you'd be able to pay for your child whie you separate--is really cold. It sounds like she doesn't even care about the marriage.

Is she affectionate with you? Are you there for her emotionally? Together for 2.5 years and no sex seems nutty.

You said you had sex 12 times over the last year right?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I actually mentioned to her that a marriage with out sex is simply a business arrangment where the business is raising the child.....and I am not willing to do that. When I talked about leaving, she asked if I would be able to pay for the kid's food and diapers until she figured out what to do.....Not the answer I expected......I mean of course I would, Other than the intimacy our relationship was perfect......I just can't figure out how to deal with this one demon.


Sorry but, sex with your spouse is a huge part of the joy of being married. She just doesn't get it.

Your marriage isn't complete without that component. Unless she has some debilitating injury that prevents her from having intercourse, she has NO excuse.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Over the last 2 years...........because she was pregnant during that time and then the recoup time.....it was like once she found out she was pregnant.....everything became stalled. 

I'm certain there isn't another man...she is at home all day every day with the kiddo. I'm an IT guy, and I thought the same thing...I checked phone records and the computer...I knwo how to snoop...and it isn't anther man. She is affectionate as in....flirty one minute....and then cold...the next....we rarely touch unless its passing the kid back and forth....I was told that me groping her makes her feel uncomfortable....and I was just trying to get what I can....if she spent 1/10th the time being with me as we do talking about it....I would have no issues at all.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MotoD said:


> but we don't even lay together...I go to bed 3 hours before her....we don't kiss....or touch or anything....the Frequency of 1 time ever month or two, I also can't tolerate....and even when we do, its like its a chore for her...and she is just doing me a favor....which makes the experience that much less enjoyable.


What does she do if you go to kiss her?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

airplane888 said:


> sounds like the ear wax favored jelly bean's being dished out in the marriage ...
> 
> 
> airplane


What does that mean? 

What is her excuse for not wanting to have sex?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Kissing, unless I hold her in place and try.....its a quick peck, she doesn't brush away...but we don't do sensual kisses.....generally.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Kissing, unless I hold her in place and try.....its a quick peck, she doesn't brush away...but we don't do sensual kisses.....generally.


F that.

I'm with tacoma. Her cushy lifestyle should get turned over, stat.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

You have already gone through a marriage with a woman who refused to do any work towards marital recovery and now you are married to another who is doing the same. Your child from your first marriage seems to have survived the divorce just fine, what makes you sure that she and her sibling won't survive a second divorce?

Women (and men) like her should marry others like them, if they can find them.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

But wait a sec, its not a cush lifestyle...I think you have the wrong image here. I agree to an extent and thank you for the support, but she is a new mom...and coddles the kid 24/7....she asked if she could quit her job a few months back...and I said if our home life goes through some serious changes, yes....because I make enough she doesn't really have to work....especially if we quit smoking.....and she did quit her job...and did not quit smoking....and still isn't giving me any intimacy....so its like WTF do I do???


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Chaos--I am curious--how long were you in a sexless marriage before you decided on divorce?

Moto--I am linking you another thread w/ a guy goin gthrough s omething similar in case you want to read:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...y-sex-drive-but-doesnt-seem-want-address.html


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Its teh failure side of things that keeps me involved, I'm sick of failing...and I've done as much as I can to not fail at this...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

But you aren't failing at "this"--she is. 

How is your marriage otherwise? Are you kind to her? Emotionally connect with her?

What is her excuse for not wanting sex? Have you asked her?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Over the last 2 years...........because she was pregnant during that time and then the recoup time.....it was like once she found out she was pregnant.....everything became stalled.
> 
> I'm certain there isn't another man...she is at home all day every day with the kiddo. I'm an IT guy, and I thought the same thing...I checked phone records and the computer...I knwo how to snoop...and it isn't anther man. She is affectionate as in....flirty one minute....and then cold...the next....we rarely touch unless its passing the kid back and forth....I was told that me groping her makes her feel uncomfortable....and I was just trying to get what I can....if she spent 1/10th the time being with me as we do talking about it....I would have no issues at all.


She sounds like she has converted into a mother. By that I mean everything is about her being a mother and raising her kid. In her mind, your sole purpose is to now support her in raising her child (she probably does not even think of it as your child). In one sense, she is having an EA with her baby, is the baby is meeting most if not all of her emotional needs.

Does she get away from the baby? Meet up with girlfriends while someone is watching the kid? Do you grab the baby and leave her alone for any period of time? What about time for the two of you, maybe a babysitter while you go out to eat?

The difficulty is getting her to think like a woman (rather than a mom) while not rewarding bad behavior. Does she have family or friends that might get through to her?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Yes I try to be kind, but when you go X amount of days without...you start to get grumpy...and I'm guilty of having little to no patience for crap when I'm grumpy....like yesterday the babies forumla was out...but she didn't realize it until AFTer I was home from work...and I told her to go get it.... in a not so nice way....

She said she doesn't know why she has no drive....she wants to want to have sex with me......but she said she just has no desire...to which I said you should want to want to please your husband.....


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Chaos--I am curious--how long were you in a sexless marriage before you decided on divorce?
> 
> Moto--I am linking you another thread w/ a guy goin gthrough s omething similar in case you want to read:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...y-sex-drive-but-doesnt-seem-want-address.html


Jellybeans, I was married for 5 years before I called it quits.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> She sounds like she has converted into a mother. By that I mean everything is about her being a mother and raising her kid. In her mind, your sole purpose is to now support her in raising her child (she probably does not even think of it as your child). In one sense, she is having an EA with her baby, is the baby is meeting most if not all of her emotional needs.
> 
> Does she get away from the baby? Meet up with girlfriends while someone is watching the kid? Do you grab the baby and leave her alone for any period of time? What about time for the two of you, maybe a babysitter while you go out to eat?
> 
> The difficulty is getting her to think like a woman (rather than a mom) while not rewarding bad behavior. Does she have family or friends that might get through to her?


I thought the exact same thing, I said to her, before the child I filled a void for her and now the child does and I'm just kind of there.....

We have had date nights (still no sex) and I have pushed her to go out with friends a couple times to watch a movie or whatever....while I stayed home with the kiddo. I've done just about everything that has been suggested and it has gotten me nowhere....for me....

Her and I have almost 0 "us" time.....and i've asked her for 3 months now to get up sooner so that our child will go to bed sooner leaving just "us" awake for an hour or two a night....even if it is just watching TV together.....

But so far....no change.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MotoD said:


> She said she doesn't know why she has no drive....she wants to want to have sex with me......but she said she just has no desire...to which I said you should want to want to please your husband.....


Gosh, I am so sorry. How are things emotionally with you guys? Granted I knwo you're ticked, but does she feel close to you?

In the end, this is going to boil down to 2 things: either she makes an effort or she doesn't. If she doesn't, you have to decide whether you want to stay married to her.




chaos said:


> Jellybeans, I was married for 5 years before I called it quits.


How long was your relationship sexless for?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Yes I try to be kind, but when you go X amount of days without...you start to get grumpy...and I'm guilty of having little to no patience for crap when I'm grumpy....like yesterday the babies forumla was out...but she didn't realize it until AFTer I was home from work...and I told her to go get it.... in a not so nice way....
> 
> She said she doesn't know why she has no drive....she wants to want to have sex with me......but she said she just has no desire...to which I said you should want to want to please your husband.....


Have you taken a look at the Married Man's Sex Lie book, as well as the turning down the thermostat thread in the Men's Clubhouse. While not fool proof, both have some really good ideas on working on yourself and making yourself more attractive.

The situation above would be a good one. Calmly and politely tell her that since she forgot, she can go out and grab it, while you stay with the kid. You are not her servant, she is an adult, and she can fix her mistakes. But you need to keep your temper when you do it.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

MotoD said:


> she asked if she could quit her job a few months back...and I said if our home life goes through some serious changes, yes....because I make enough she doesn't really have to work....especially if we quit smoking.....and she did quit her job...and did not quit smoking....and still isn't giving me any intimacy....so its like WTF do I do???


Wow that's very controlling!

"You can quite your job if you give me sex".

You don't seem to get that you can't force her to do it and even if she agreed to your deal she'd resent you with a passion.

Face it man, she isn't sexually attracted to you anymore, maybe she never was, there isn't EVER going to be any significant amount of sex in your marriage no matter how many ways you try to get this fixed, so you either accept it and live with it, get it on "the side" or get a divorce, those are your only options here.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I thought the exact same thing, I said to her, before the child I filled a void for her and now the child does and I'm just kind of there.....
> 
> We have had date nights (still no sex) and I have pushed her to go out with friends a couple times to watch a movie or whatever....while I stayed home with the kiddo. I've done just about everything that has been suggested and it has gotten me nowhere....for me....
> 
> ...


Ask her point blank why she does not want to spend time with you. She will give you plenty of excuses (baby won't fall asleep, she is tired, etc.). Tell her those are just excuses she uses to not spend time with you. Then ask why?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I know....but keeping your temper when you are walking around at boiling point already because of the sex issue is a difficult task at hand....I try to remain calm but I'm so impatient and short with all those around me because of the internal frustrations I've been forced to deal with.....I even snapped at a co-worker....it truly is affecting everyone and everything around me.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

hisfac said:


> Wow that's very controlling!
> 
> "You can quite your job if you give me sex".
> 
> ...


No it wasn't meant for sex, I'm not controlling, I meant the house life as in the chores and cleaning and laundry and what not...as it stood, while she was working...I was doing 70% or so of all that stuff.....Sorry if it came across like that.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

If you're emotionally connected, your libido should accompany it. 

For *most women the emotional connection fuels the desire to have sex with your husband.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

She wouldn't agree to do the household chores in exchange for not having to work?

Wow she's a very difficult person.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

hisfac said:


> Wow that's very controlling!
> 
> "You can quite your job if you give me sex".
> 
> ...


Why is that controlling? She has clearly demonstrated that his needs are not important, yet she wants the opportunity to contribute even less and place more of a burden on him? Why would he find that acceptable? To agree is to tell her that all is well in their relationship, when clearly it is not.

He brought up divorce and her biggest concern was that he would continue to buy diapers and formula. If that is how she thinks, she may very well need the job in the very near future.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I know....but keeping your temper when you are walking around at boiling point already because of the sex issue is a difficult task at hand....I try to remain calm but I'm so impatient and short with all those around me because of the internal frustrations I've been forced to deal with.....I even snapped at a co-worker....it truly is affecting everyone and everything around me.


Sorry, but this one is on you. You need to man up and get control of yourself. That is the only thing you can control - you can't control your wife, your baby, your co-workers, noone other than yourself. And being in a bad mood is no excuse. Get control of your emotions and temper. That is critical. It is also a step in potentially regaining attractiveness in your wife's eyes.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

You are correct, I just need an outlet...and sex use to be a great stress releiver....I don't drink...which is good....I just need a vent...tried venting to my sister and she told me I should be happy with what I have and stop loathing about what I"m imssing.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> No it wasn't meant for sex, I'm not controlling, I meant the house life as in the chores and cleaning and laundry and what not...as it stood, while she was working...I was doing 70% or so of all that stuff.....Sorry if it came across like that.


That is way too much. If you both work, she should be doing her 50% too. You need to pull back.

Remember, no women ever decided to have sex with her boyfriend because she loved his laundry skills.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> chaos said:
> 
> 
> > Jellybeans, I was married for 5 years before I called it quits.
> ...


About 3.5 years.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Remember, no women ever decided to have sex with her boyfriend because she loved his laundry skills.


I dunno. Do my laundry and I'll love you forever. :lol:


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Yes I try to be kind, but when you go X amount of days without...you start to get grumpy...and I'm guilty of having little to no patience for crap when I'm grumpy....like yesterday the babies forumla was out...but she didn't realize it until AFTer I was home from work...and I told her to go get it.... in a not so nice way....
> 
> She said she doesn't know why she has no drive....she wants to want to have sex with me......but she said she just has no desire...to which I said you should want to want to please your husband.....


And that my friend shoud tell you alot, she said she wants to, you just need to find how to get her into the deisre mode, how exactly to do that?, I wish I knew myself...dont give up until you have tried anything and everything, until in your mind you've given the best you had and then some. read MMSL, no mr nice guy, the passionate marriage, when your sex drives dont match, come at this from every angle possible.

You have to let go of the anger, she feels it, it will get you no where, been there done that, only makes it worse..
you feel pressured not to have sex, she feels pressured to have sex..
she needs to work on her end of this too.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> And that my friend shoud tell you alot, she said she wants to, you just need to find how to get her into the deisre mode, how exactly to do that?, I wish I knew myself...dont give up until you have tried anything and everything, until in your mind you've given the best you had and then some. read MMSL, no mr nice guy, the passionate marriage, when your sex drives dont match, come at this from every angle possible.
> 
> You have to let go of the anger, she feels it, it will get you no where, been there done that, only makes it worse..
> you feel pressured not to have sex, she feels pressured to have sex..
> she needs to work on her end of this too.


How long do you suggest he do this? A year, 5 years, 10 years,....? You can't expect him to be living in a sexless marriage forever, can you?


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## Gooch78 (Mar 19, 2012)

Well seems like the Anti Depressent pills are taking some toll on her with the whole body changes. She is possibly going through a very tough time as much as you are, takes 2 to clap.. 
I think, get her off the pills, try different things, go out clubbing get her drunk, do some activities that you think can start her enjoying her time. Good Sex is a very important part of marriage, Id give it 90% of marriage.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

chaos said:


> How long do you suggest he do this? A year, 5 years, 10 years,....? You can't expect him to be living in a sexless marriage forever, can you?


His sister tells him to deal with it too. I don't get these women.

Sex isn't just for/about him. It's for BOTH spouses.

Why deny yourself the pleasure, the wall climbing O's??? It's crazy.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> And that my friend shoud tell you alot, she said she wants to, you just need to find how to get her into the deisre mode


No, he said she "wants to want to".

Big difference between "wanting to want to do something" and "wanting to do something".

For example:

I "want to want to go to work every day and never take a vacation and keep paying my exwife spousal support and child support for a teenage daughter who refuses to visit with me". 

That doesn't mean it's a realistic possibility.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

How many women would tolerate living in an emotional dessert marriage where their husbands gave them NO affection, NO attention and told them "I want to want to be attentive and affectionate towards you but I feel no desire to do so"?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

That 'wanting to want to' is a passive aggressive BS response to your questions. She knows she doesn't have any excuse and telling you outright I DON'T WANT TO just comes off as @ssholery. It is, but I digress.

Love is a choice. Whether or not to have sex is a choice. You can choose to do it or not to do it. She's actively choosing whom she will give love to, and how and WHEN she will give herself to her husband.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Sometimes wives belittle their husbands unfulfilled desire for sex as being a trivial problem but fail to realize that it is not the lack of sex that hurts the most, but the lack of caring on their part.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

chaos said:


> How long do you suggest he do this? A year, 5 years, 10 years,....? You can't expect him to be living in a sexless marriage forever, can you?


How long I think he should try has no meaning here, only for him to decide that.

I'm trying my ass off to, if and when I've had enough I'll know, No I wont stay in a super low or sexless marriage, but Im giving my best and learning and trying to understand it from more than just my side and my wife is trying to do the same.

My point was to try eveything before calling it quits, what that 
time frame is...is different for eveyone.
.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

hisfac said:


> No, he said she "wants to want to".
> 
> Big difference between "wanting to want to do something" and "wanting to do something".
> 
> ...


Sooory my bad didnt take the time to read it correctly...I'm sorry...Damn it


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Gooch78 said:


> Well seems like the Anti Depressent pills are taking some toll on her with the whole body changes. She is possibly going through a very tough time as much as you are, takes 2 to clap..
> I think, get her off the pills, try different things, go out clubbing get her drunk, do some activities that you think can start her enjoying her time. Good Sex is a very important part of marriage, Id give it 90% of marriage.


I've tried the drunk thing...that led to nothing...on at least 3 different attempts, I asked about the pills and she said if it were the pills she would know.....so I did try....we aren't really clubbers....but I did plan a night where we were going to do dinner and a movie...but she opted out of the movie for a trip to downtown indy for the superbowl festivities...which I hated...but I went anyway..and yes...still nothing happened when we got home.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I've tried the drunk thing...that led to nothing...on at least 3 different attempts, I asked about the pills and she said if it were the pills she would know.....so I did try....we aren't really clubbers....but I did plan a night where we were going to do dinner and a movie...but she opted out of the movie for a trip to downtown indy for the superbowl festivities...which I hated...but I went anyway..and yes...still nothing happened when we got home.


I would consider turning down the thermostat. Step back and quit doing stuff for her. Be happy, cheerful and polite, but quit helping her out. Do stuff for yourself with friends and be less available.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I've tried the drunk thing...that led to nothing...on at least 3 different attempts, I asked about the pills and she said if it were the pills she would know.....so I did try....we aren't really clubbers....but I did plan a night where we were going to do dinner and a movie...but she opted out of the movie for a trip to downtown indy for the superbowl festivities...which I hated...but I went anyway..and yes...still nothing happened when we got home.


More proof that it's @ssholery.

I mean the bottom line is, you stick with it and try to live on her love crumbs, or you go the opposite direction. I'd be doing a 180. Tell her point blank.. I do NOT intend to live in a sexless marriage. Period. Either you're going to help do something about that or not, but it will be YOUR choice how this goes.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> How long I think he should try has no meaning here, only for him to decide that.
> 
> I'm trying my ass off to, if and when I've had enough I'll know, No I wont stay in a super low or sexless marriage, but Im giving my best and learning and trying to understand it from more than just my side and my wife is trying to do the same.
> 
> ...


I see. I'm glad you clarified that and I agree with you about him trying different approaches and mindsets. Even if it doesn't resolve the issue of his sexless marriage (like it didn't in mine), it will certainly make him an attractive man to another woman in a post-divorce life (my girlfriend is now the beneficiary of my improvements).


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

True but most of the things I do for her...involve the kiddo..like taking him so she can nap....or getting up with him on weekends so she can sleep in....so I feel I'd be neglecting the child by trying to teach her a lesson...


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

MotoD said:


> True but most of the things I do for her...involve the kiddo..like taking him so she can nap....or getting up with him on weekends so she can sleep in....so I feel I'd be neglecting the child by trying to teach her a lesson...


Interesting that you equate spending time with your child to be "helping her out".

You can certainly do those things with your child while at the same time maintaining the required emotional distance from her. Assuming of course that you want to.

When you get up with your child on the weekends, or "take him" while she naps.. go somewhere. Don't rush back home.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

hisfac said:


> Interesting that you equate spending time with your child to be "helping her out".
> 
> You can certainly do those things with your child while at the same time maintaining the required emotional distance from her. Assuming of course that you want to.


What I meant was....helping her out...is doing things for her around the house.....so she doesn't have to...and yes that involves the kiddo....not on everything.

I mean what exactly does "not being there for her" imply?


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

MotoD said:


> What I meant was....helping her out...is doing things for her around the house.....so she doesn't have to...and yes that involves the kiddo....not on everything.
> 
> I mean what exactly does "not being there for her" imply?


EMOTIONALLY not be there.

PHYSICALLY not be there

SEXUALLY not be there. 

You'll figure it out.

Read my post above again, I edited it after you quoted it and there's one idea in there for you.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I'll give it a shot, I've already sort of done the physical thing...I've devoted alot of after hours work that I would normally do from home.....at work. Just to get away from the argument and not be there for her.

I just don't know what its going to take for her to realize, this is a VERY solvable issue.....but only she has the power to solve it.....I mean even the other day we had an argument and she said I was inventing problems and if she gave me a bj everything would be fine......and in my head I'm thinking....PROBABLY!!! but of course I didn't say that...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I'll give it a shot, I've already sort of done the physical thing...I've devoted alot of after hours work that I would normally do from home.....at work. Just to get away from the argument and not be there for her.
> 
> I just don't know what its going to take for her to realize, this is a VERY solvable issue.....but only she has the power to solve it.....I mean even the other day we had an argument and *she said I was inventing problems *and if she gave me a bj everything would be fine......and in my head I'm thinking....PROBABLY!!! but of course I didn't say that...


Acknowledging there IS a problem is half the battle. Seems like she's nowhere near that. In her mind everything is fine, you're making up things to be mad about.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

chaos said:


> I wonder how she would react if you were to tell her that you no longer want to have sex with her and that you consider yourself married in name only until the day you file for divorce? Probably not moved at all and just might enjoy the fact that she would no longer feel pressured to give in to sex. In other words, nothing would change, so giving it a try couldn't hurt, could it?


That would kind of be an idle threat though......and could easily backfire, I honestly love her, and this is the dealbreaking issue we have....you eliminate this problem and all the other little things are nothing to sneeze at....


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

How can it be idle and dealbreaking at the same time?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I'll give it a shot, I've already sort of done the physical thing...I've devoted alot of after hours work that I would normally do from home.....at work. Just to get away from the argument and not be there for her.
> 
> I just don't know what its going to take for her to realize, this is a VERY solvable issue.....but only she has the power to solve it.....I mean even the other day we had an argument and she said I was inventing problems and if she gave me a bj everything would be fine......and in my head I'm thinking....PROBABLY!!! but of course I didn't say that...


Go do some fun things and make her aware of it. Join a gym and work out. Get involved in a sports league or trivia team or whatever you like doing. Come home from work, play with your kid for 30 minutes, them head out the door to have fun. She needs to see that you are a fun person and that she is missing out. Also, it gives you other things to focus on and helps you to avoid resentment - all good things.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Go do some fun things and make her aware of it. Join a gym and work out. Get involved in a sports league or trivia team or whatever you like doing. Come home from work, play with your kid for 30 minutes, them head out the door to have fun. She needs to see that you are a fun person and that she is missing out. Also, it gives you other things to focus on and helps you to avoid resentment - all good things.


I follow you and that will actually start to happen anyway in the next 2 weeks. I coach my daughters softball team. We start practice in a couple weeks and then games start at the end of may....I'll be gone 3 nights a week doing that. And yeah you are right...I do need to just come home, put in face time with the kiddo and then jet with the older one or whatever......hmmmmm what to do what to do.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> How can it be idle and dealbreaking at the same time?


Well it is deal breaking, but I don't know when....I mean I don't know know how much time to allow her to get over whatever this is....meaning it would sort of be idle....


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Well it is deal breaking, but I don't know when....I mean I don't know know how much time to allow her to get over whatever this is....meaning it would sort of be idle....


Give her a time frame in your mind. It could be 6 months, it could be a year. When that time has ended and things have improved, extend the date. If not, you know what you have to do.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Think of it this way, it's been going on now for almost 2 years. I think you've been pretty patient.

Can you put 2 more years of the same into it? 5?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> Think of it this way, it's been going on now for almost 2 years. I think you've been pretty patient.
> 
> Can you put 2 more years of the same into it? 5?


No I can not. I'm scared to put a time limit though, as it stands when we argue or "talk" she says, it can't be fixed overnight....


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MotoD said:


> No I can not. I'm scared to put a time limit though, as it stands when we argue or "talk" she says, it can't be fixed overnight....


Yes it can. Unless there's something else she's not telling you, like she's built some resentment against you that you know nothing about.

You can allow her to string you along or you can take a stand for your health and well being in this relationship. It's up to you.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Well she has told me that when I bring it up she feels like I"m badgering her and that makes her want it less....

I even made the sexist statement of whether you want to do it or not....you should because you know I want to. Which went over real well.....I've tried the patent and nice approach and that has got me nowhere...so now I've tried the angry and sexist approach and it has got me the same results with added arguing....


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MotoD said:


> *Well she has told me that when I bring it up she feels like I"m badgering her and that makes her want it less....*
> 
> I even made the sexist statement of whether you want to do it or not....you should because you know I want to. Which went over real well.....I've tried the patent and nice approach and that has got me nowhere...so now I've tried the angry and sexist approach and it has got me the same results with added arguing....


And tell me, what exactly is less than none?? Instead of 12 times a year, you'll drop down to 5 or 6? Is she the warden of sex now?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> And tell me, what exactly is less than none?? Instead of 12 times a year, you'll drop down to 5 or 6? Is she the warden of sex now?


Exactly.....

I work with a bunch of women around my age, and I even asked for their opinions and situations and the overall concept is that most women don't want it as much as guys....but....they do it anyway to keep them happy...and so as to not promote straying to the other side of the fence or whatever....

But if I go home and say that....she will probably say something along the lines of "are you saying if I don't you will go out and cheat?" and that isn't what I'm trying to say at all...but it will come across that way. I'm no cheater, nor have I ever been. I just want her to see that SHE clearly is the problem and make some sort of effort to fix it......instead of making excuses as to why she is the way she is....I mean this may sound awful, but I would be thrilled if she just pretended she wanted to and faked it all once a week...I'd be none the wiser and the problem would be solved in my eyes.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Well she has told me that when I bring it up she feels like I"m badgering her and that makes her want it less....
> 
> I even made the sexist statement of whether you want to do it or not....you should because you know I want to. Which went over real well.....I've tried the patent and nice approach and that has got me nowhere...so now I've tried the angry and sexist approach and it has got me the same results with added arguing....


You need to toughen up and quit the whining. You bringing it up sounds to her like you begging for sex. You saying she should just give it to you is a complete turn-off. Add to it that your actions have not changed, and you are effectively communicating that you will whine but not do anything about it. I know this sounds harsh, but it is reality.

Quit raising the issue and don't talk about it unless she brings it up. Approach her about being physical, even if it is a kiss. If she avoids, shrug your shoulders, tell her that it is her loss, and then go do something else. Have fun and be more like guy she dated, but without giving her the support she wants. Since she sees you as an income source, consider getting a separate checking account. You need to get space in a way that she feels.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Exactly.....
> 
> I work with a bunch of women around my age, and I even asked for their opinions and situations and the overall concept is that most women don't want it as much as guys....but....they do it anyway to keep them happy...and so as to not promote straying to the other side of the fence or whatever....
> 
> But if I go home and say that....she will probably say something along the lines of "are you saying if I don't you will go out and cheat?" and that isn't what I'm trying to say at all...but it will come across that way. I'm no cheater, nor have I ever been. I just want her to see that SHE clearly is the problem and make some sort of effort to fix it......instead of making excuses as to why she is the way she is....I mean this may sound awful, but I would be thrilled if she just pretended she wanted to and faked it all once a week...I'd be none the wiser and the problem would be solved in my eyes.


Well I'm sure you'd want her to be present and in the moment as much as you were. You want her to WANT you. You're flesh and bone and it's natural to want to feel wanted by your spouse.

If counseling won't help her, if she keeps making excuses to you when you try explaining it to her in plain english, I don't know that there's anything else for you to do, other than the timeline and the exit if necessary. You can't MAKE her do it no matter how much you wish, press, ask, beg for it.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

True, and I actually quit bringing it up Since the therapy session because that clearly was an issue for her, which is why we have the little notebook....and the argument we had yesterday wasn't even about that...but she brought it into the conversation saying that it all boils down to that and had I got some, the issue I had yesterday wouldn't even be an issue......

There is truth to that....I'm sure it wouldn't have been an issue...but it kills me to know that she KNOWS that and still does nothing about it....for the love of pete.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm a little extremist on this point of denying your spouse sex. IMO it's the equivalent of starving a person. 

It's cruelty.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

You can't make her want to have sex with you and it's unreasonable to expect her to give it to you just because you want it. It would be like slow torture for her, even if you pick up the pace and get it done within 5 minutes it will seem like an eternity for her and to you it will be like screwing a lifeless body. 

It would be like someone handing me a tomato and telling me to take a few bites and learn to freaking like it.

She's just not into it, meaning that she's just not that into YOU.

All the begging, whining, therapy, bribing, arguing, coercion, manipulation by guilt, etc, aint never gonna change that.

All you can do is back off, live your own life, and then "maybe" she'll realize she's losing you, she'll realize that she wants what she might not be able to have, and 'maybe' she'll start to cum around. Then again she probably won't but you'll already be moving in the right direction, in which case just keep on going. At the end of the road will be a woman who actually wants to have sex with you.


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## 4understanding (Oct 23, 2011)

I could have written your same words moto, and still could. My situation is exactly like yours and it sucks. I did finally learn from my wife that she was sexually abused as a child and that is where the issue is...maybe something to look into.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I would think something like that BUT...we humped like rabbits as teenagers...and prior to getting pregnant....thats kinda why i'm baffled.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

hisfac said:


> All you can do is back off, live your own life, and then "maybe" she'll realize she's losing you, she'll realize that she wants what she might not be able to have, and 'maybe' she'll start to cum around. Then again she probably won't but you'll already be moving in the right direction, in which case just keep on going. *At the end of the road will be a woman who actually wants to have sex with you*.


:rofl:



chaos said:


> About 3.5 years.


Oh my. That is a long time.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Next time she asks you to do anything, tell her to stop badgering you. And then don't do it.

lol.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

My goal isn't to turn it into world war III here


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

lol I know.

But sucks how one person gets to call all the shots.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> My goal isn't to turn it into world war III here


It does not have to be. Just stand up for yourself. When she complains, calmly let her know that you need to take care of your needs, since she is not willing to step up to the job. If she raises her voice and starts arguing, just tell her this is how you feel. Calmly walk away is she keeps insisting. If she becomes rude, tell her you will talk to her when she can speak to you in a respectful tone. Leave the house for a couple of hours if necessary. Keep yourself in control.


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## 4understanding (Oct 23, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I would think something like that BUT...we humped like rabbits as teenagers...and prior to getting pregnant....thats kinda why i'm baffled.


We did also, through 10 years of marriage until about 8 months ago, we had great sex 5-6 times weekly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I honestly just don't know.

I'll try to keep a cool head...and not be so available.....and see where that gets me.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> chaos said:
> 
> 
> > About 3.5 years.
> ...


Yes it is but in a way it gave me the chance to become a better man. Now my girlfriend is the lucky beneficiary of my personal improvements.


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> She sounds like she has converted into a mother. By that I mean everything is about her being a mother and raising her kid. In her mind, your sole purpose is to now support her in raising her child (she probably does not even think of it as your child). In one sense, she is having an EA with her baby


That was very astutely put. I'd say that describes my first marriage exactly. I didn't have a wife any more -- not in any sense, not just sexually.


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

MotoD said:


> I even made the sexist statement of whether you want to do it or not....you should because you know I want to.


OK, I get it that your wife didn't agree. But I fail to see how that is a sexist statement. That is pretty much the rule of my marriage... for both partners... for everything. Yup, if Carol wants something, I don't feel compelled to want it myself nor do I need to understand why SHE wants it. I just need to make it happen. That concept is very important to both of us. How is it sexist?


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## JustWaiting (Jun 28, 2011)

If you moved out and got an apartment, she would initiate sex with you. If you were divorced and she started dating, she would be having sex. If you stay married, she will eventually try to relive the high school fantasy she thought she was getting when she married you but will get that from and with some other guy behind your back. Bank on it. Doesn't sound like there's someone else right now; and not because of the IT verification but because if she was she would be acting lovey dovey to throw you off the track. 

Ask her if she is willing to be hypnotized to plant a suggestion to be happy being physically intimate with you.

Marriage is supposed to be joyful. Maybe the third time will be a charm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Well we had it out again last night....She left the house at 4:30 - and came home at 11:30 (suppose to be at our new house working on removing wall paper) I asked how it went and she said I couldn't get there until 7 and had to pick up the kid by 9 so I didn't get much done...I then said...what? so where were you then if you weren't out the house. She blurts out her friends name and I believe her but when I said....ahhh the missing link.....she asked why I'm keeping tabs. I followed that with if the role was reversed wouldn't you wonder where I was?? And that started another spiral of back and forth comments until 4am when I fell asleep alone.....with her downstairs. She cried....and said again how she has all these things that I don't like about her and she can't fix them. I re-iterated again....focus on the ONE issue and forget about the rest...which she assured me she was planning on doing that friday (today). Which I followed with...why wait for this day or that day?? You have made me wait 3 weeks now....why wait until tomorrow? She said she wanted to follow the (therapy) plan which was every friday. Now I probably should have shut up there....but I said you blew that plan out of the water on week 2....and it has been 3 weeks since....why now.....She went on to tell me that she went to the family doctor monday as planned. Was her 30 day follow up from her anti depressants....and she failed to mention to him that her marriage is falling apart and she has to be forced to sleep with her husband......I told her by not mentioning that little fact....makes me think you still don't see the problem...or the problem isn't important to you enough to actually do something about it....She then said I don't see how telling the family doctor will help.....to which I said...then who exactly do you think you would tell?? Other than the doctor that gave you the pills in the first place??

Grrr I spiraled into a venom spitting fury after that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MotoD said:


> I've told her and the second I bring it up she gets defensive and hostile.


The way to handle it is to make it a boundary, with a consequence, which I assume will be divorce: "Wife, I married you expecting that SF was a part of our lives; you agreed in counseling to make it more of a priority, once a week, and you are going off of your word. So here's the deal: I can't stay married to someone who doesn't want to have SF with me, so if that's the way you feel, I'm going to have to see a lawyer. Your choice."

Your boundary - can't be married without real SF
Your consequence, should she choose to trample your boundary - you leave


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That said, tell me what her life is like. Does she work? Stay at home? Do all the housework? Does she have any friends she hangs out with? Belong to a club of some sort? Do you ever take the kids and give her the day off? Do you ever set up a babysitter and take her away for a romantic weekend? Do you stand up to her?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you sure she's not cheating?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

No she doesn't work, she is a stay at home mom who is now doing more housework. I'm purposely doing less. She has maybe a handful of friends but only 2 that she speaks to regularly. No club.....and yes I've taken kids and given her self dates...she went to a movie a couple weeks ago with my sister and shopping the week after that. I've had 2 date nights in the last couple months and 1 was my company party, the other I let her pick it and we went to a little chinese place for food and then to the superbowl village......both nights resulted in no sex.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm positive, see, here is another thing...since our son was born....she has weird menstruals....lasting weeks at a time. I never know when one ends and begins....and usually that is her excuse for not wanting anything....because its gross and she feels gross...I acknowledged that the first 6 months...but after that...I've lost patience waiting on it..and more so took the stance of I need my needs met....I'm sorry you have some issues with that but I can't be forced to standby.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IME, more SAHMs end up cheating than any other group. Just keep an eye out for things like hiding her phone from you or locking you out of it.

IMO, you should not be doing ANY housework if she's a SAHM. Maybe carry a pile of towels to the bathroom if you're going there anyway. Her JOB is to take care of the house, and if she won't do that, she needs to get a job.

It's that getting to stay at home, IMO (and no offense to any SAHMs here), that leads to more selfish behavior, at least nowadays. You came in and rescued her, gave her the kid she's been wanting, let her stay home...you're the nice guy. Women lose respect for the nice guy. That's why you have to enact a boundary. She HAS to see you strong, or she won't respect you enough to try. Plus, strong men turn women on.

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? You need to read it this weekend.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You also could try reading His Needs Her Needs by Harley - TOGETHER. It's very enlightening for keeping a marriage strong and, unless she's just selfish and used you to get a family, she'll realize what she's been doing is wrong. It talks about meeting each other's Emotional Needs (so someone else doesn't step in and do it), and avoiding Love Busters so you don't start hating each other.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Weird menstruals don't keep her from giving you oral.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I plan on reading it, and I actually did say very something similar about if you are quitting your job and staying at home then the house is your job....but when I wake up saturday morning and find dishes to do or laundry to do...I do it....I was a single dad for quite a bit and I just got use to it....I mentioned separation to her last night and she started crying...I just want her to understand it is to that point now....I'm not willing to live like this. Yet I feel like I'm being overbearing....or demanding....and yes I will read that.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

It has been over 2 years since oral....I brought that up last night as well...

I've always been loyal, never been a cheater.

But I can't keep this up. I tried to explain to her that I go to work every day thinking that I have a wife that has no desire to be with me, and that feeling is awful. I can't just park it and not think about it...its a giant elephant that follows me everywhere....and it has even begun to cause me health issues. I was recently told I have several bleeding ulcers, and my psoriosis has come back with a vengence....both of which can be directly related to stress....which can be directly related to marital problems combined with a lack of stress relief....aka sex.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You put her on notice. This sexless marriage will not last. At least she can't say she didn't know how you felt when it all comes crashing down on her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm not trying to be rude, but have you ever talked to her about what she thinks of your psoriasis? It does turn some people off, and if she feels that way but didn't want to tell you, it could be a problem.

Small warning: when my parents split up, my mom's psoriasis pretty much covered her entire body, and she lost all her hair - the scabs clogged up the pores.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I had it prior to all this, it was almost completely gone because stress is a agitator of it. I don't have it all over really. and it wasn't an issue before, Not sure how it would be an issue now...I just know it is getting more and more inflamed and painful as my stress levels increase....

But yeah I know it can definately be a turn off. and you aren't being rude at all  it is a legitimate question, we have talked about it briefly here and there, nothing major at all.


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## agreenleaf95 (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm sorry that your wife is not interested in sex. I understand how you feel. My husband hasn't been interested in sex in about 15 years. Since we got married 15 years ago he lost all interest in sex and we only have sex about 2 times a year and that is only because I initiate it. Sometimes I feel like I am the only one going through this and have no one to talk to.


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

I've only read the first three pages of this thread, so excuse me if I'm repeating anything. I really feel for your wife here. Caring for another human being KILLS the sex drive of some women. It may have nothing to do with whether she finds you attractive or not. It killed it for me when I had my son. I felt really bad that I wasn't interested at all, but it was not a reflection on my husband, just that I was shattered. Speaking from her perspective, try giving her other forms of intimacy (like massages that you DON'T expect to lead to sex), and wait for her to be less tired. It might take another year, so best you get some good handy-cream!

The other thing to consider is maybe you aren't trying hard enough. Please tell me you're not a wham bang kind of guy? the only other relationship I can relate back to yours was with a guy who just liked to climb on and hump. Is it possible you need to do some study and become a better lover? I just stopped wanting sex altogether, he was so boring. I tried to guide him by saying what I liked, but he just got offended all the time. I would have to psych myself up for sex by reading erotic stories and having a glass of wine. 

But even if you DO try and be a better lover, you have to get your foot in the door first. Start with the intimacy. Make her feel loved and appreciated. I'm telling you, massage with no expectation of sex is a good start.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks Zeeta, I actually did the massage thing a couple times and it went nowhere too. Not tooting my own horn but back when we did have it regularly she never had any complaints about wham bam...granted I'm sure now...it may be different simply because of the lack of "training". I even tried asking her what she did or didn't like in hopes it would get her mind going and possibly lead to something...her honest answer to me was "I don't know"....and I was like how do you not know what turns you on???

Another curveball I presume.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

zeeta said:


> I've only read the first three pages of this thread, so excuse me if I'm repeating anything. I really feel for your wife here. Caring for another human being KILLS the sex drive of some women. It may have nothing to do with whether she finds you attractive or not. It killed it for me when I had my son. I felt really bad that I wasn't interested at all, but it was not a reflection on my husband, just that I was shattered. Speaking from her perspective, try giving her other forms of intimacy (like massages that you DON'T expect to lead to sex), and wait for her to be less tired. It might take another year, so best you get some good handy-cream!
> 
> The other thing to consider is maybe you aren't trying hard enough. Please tell me you're not a wham bang kind of guy? the only other relationship I can relate back to yours was with a guy who just liked to climb on and hump. Is it possible you need to do some study and become a better lover? I just stopped wanting sex altogether, he was so boring. I tried to guide him by saying what I liked, but he just got offended all the time. I would have to psych myself up for sex by reading erotic stories and having a glass of wine.
> 
> But even if you DO try and be a better lover, you have to get your foot in the door first. Start with the intimacy. Make her feel loved and appreciated. I'm telling you, massage with no expectation of sex is a good start.


I am sorry, but this makes no sense. Working on other forms of intimacy to help spur things for a short time may help, but when she has gone into mother godess mode, where nothing else matters but the baby, this is nuts. She is likely viewing all actions through the lens of raising the child. Moto helping so she is less tired will only allow her to focus more on the kid. The same with massages.

I really do think Moto needs to disengage, quit most any housework and have fun on his own. She is not interested in meeting his needs, so he needs to take care of himself. She wants to be a SAHM, then she needs to pull her share of the work. She may also needs a glimpse of what being a single mother would be like.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Luckily we are moving and I'm remodeling the house we are moving too...which means alot of ALONE away from home time....so she is somewhat getting a taste of that now....and actually yesterday she came up behind me and gave me a hug....and flirted a little.....thought last night was the night...but we were both so sore and tired that I think it truly wasn't an option....so she gets a get out of jail free card for last night.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Thanks Zeeta, I actually did the massage thing a couple times and it went nowhere too. Not tooting my own horn but back when we did have it regularly she never had any complaints about wham bam...granted I'm sure now...it may be different simply because of the lack of "training". I even tried asking her what she did or didn't like in hopes it would get her mind going and possibly lead to something...her honest answer to me was "I don't know"....and I was like how do you not know what turns you on???
> 
> Another curveball I presume.


I understand this can be quite common among women. They either honestly don't know or are afraid to voice out loud what they want. Once you get a chance, it will very likely be you that needs to add new things in the bedroom. Start out with light things and go from there. New positions are good. If you like the idea of tying her up, start with holding her arms above her head. If she reacts positively, go from there. Another thing that can help is get her to touch herself while you are together, then watch what she does and try and imitate it.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Yup will try anything LOL. Weird enough, she says she doesn't masterbate and feels weird trying to do so with me there....figure that one out...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Luckily we are moving and I'm remodeling the house we are moving too...which means alot of ALONE away from home time....so she is somewhat getting a taste of that now....and actually yesterday she came up behind me and gave me a hug....and flirted a little.....thought last night was the night...but we were both so sore and tired that I think it truly wasn't an option....so she gets a get out of jail free card for last night.


Consider flirting back a little with her as well. Pin her against the counter, kiss her hard, tell her how hot she is, then walk away whistling and go play with the kid. Make her feel a bit sexual without it automatically leading to sex. Remember that you need to reward her good behavior a bit to encourage it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Yup will try anything LOL. Weird enough, she says she doesn't masterbate and feels weird trying to do so with me there....figure that one out...


It can be other things as well. Start off slow. Touching her breast while you are paying attention to the other. "Making" her do it can help - grab her hand and tell her to keep her self aroused for example. She is free from any inhibitions she may have, because you are making her do it.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Good call, and in the heat of the moment...I'm sure she would oblige...Maybe I'll be a little flirty today and see what happens even though I'm going to work on the house...When I do leave....leave her wondering...


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## shavh (Apr 9, 2012)

is it possible she's depressed?


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Very possible....since she is taking anti-depressants....but I thought that was the point of those pills...


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I am sorry, but this makes no sense. Working on other forms of intimacy to help spur things for a short time may help, but when she has gone into mother godess mode, where nothing else matters but the baby, this is nuts. She is likely viewing all actions through the lens of raising the child. Moto helping so she is less tired will only allow her to focus more on the kid. The same with massages.
> 
> I really do think Moto needs to disengage, quit most any housework and have fun on his own. She is not interested in meeting his needs, so he needs to take care of himself. She wants to be a SAHM, then she needs to pull her share of the work. She may also needs a glimpse of what being a single mother would be like.


You're right, I guess I wasn't thinking about satisfying Moto's sex drive, I was thinking more about their intimacy and making sure it doesn't die in the meantime. I don't know about Moto's wife, but I felt pissed off that after the birth of our baby my husband never tried to be intimate with me (by that I mean cuddles and non-sexual touches) but he expected me to want sex regularly.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I would cuddle her every night if I had to....as it stands now I go to bed alone every night.


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

MotoD said:


> Thanks Zeeta, I actually did the massage thing a couple times and it went nowhere too. Not tooting my own horn but back when we did have it regularly she never had any complaints about wham bam...granted I'm sure now...it may be different simply because of the lack of "training". I even tried asking her what she did or didn't like in hopes it would get her mind going and possibly lead to something...her honest answer to me was "I don't know"....and I was like how do you not know what turns you on???
> 
> Another curveball I presume.


I understand what she's saying. Some are just 'slow burners' with our libido, and most men don't have that kind of patience. I like what tall average guy suggested:



Tall Average Guy said:


> Consider flirting back a little with her as well. Pin her against the counter, kiss her hard, tell her how hot she is, then walk away whistling and go play with the kid. Make her feel a bit sexual without it automatically leading to sex. Remember that you need to reward her good behavior a bit to encourage it.


Slow burners need a build up throughout the day.

I was thinking about you two this morning actually, and wondered if she's on the pill? I have always been on the pill, I take it for other reasons besides contraception, and when I went off it, whoa! What a difference, awesome! My pill suppresses testosterone, btw.

Hmm... so possible reasons:
1) hormonal - either natural, or caused by some sort of medication
2) she's not turned on enough and needs more stimulation. I like 'nice' porn. More erotica than porn really. I've no interest in seeing skinny girls getting hammered up the ass by some guy. I like reading stories, or classy pictures, not dirty ones. Like these girls, lots of them are beautiful without making you feel like you're dirty for looking (you'll have to keep scrolling down, the ones at the top are not always a good example):
mocho « Mocho's Blog
Also dirty talk, as tall average guy suggested. 
3) She's frustrated sexually, like I mentioned about the ex who was just not very exciting in bed.

I feel sorry for both of you, it sux when your libido doesn't match. It's nice that you're trying to think of ways to fix it, but just remember that it's nobody's fault, you're just different.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

She is currently on no birth control whatsoever....had a depo shot 4 months or so ago and came off of it because it messed up her menstruation. The drity talk is out as she can not and will not participate in that...I've tried LOL.

She says that its just a lack of desire....no intereest in sex whatsoever.


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

MotoD said:


> She is currently on no birth control whatsoever....had a depo shot 4 months or so ago and came off of it because it messed up her menstruation. The drity talk is out as she can not and will not participate in that...I've tried LOL.
> 
> She says that its just a lack of desire....no intereest in sex whatsoever.


aww.. poor you *hugs* poor her too. I guess I can only say that I went through that too and it came right. I told my husband it was nothing to do with him, I just had no desire. And I wasn't lying, that was true. When my son got a bit older and I went off the pill, things started to feel more normal. I know that's not much good to you right now, but maybe it will give you hope.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks zeeta but my only argument is this....we as men do things for women all teh time that we don't want to do...but because they do....so why can't that be applied to this department as well??


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

0


MotoD said:


> Thanks zeeta but my only argument is this....we as men do things for women all teh time that we don't want to do...but because they do....so why can't that be applied to this department as well??


I guess that's different for every woman. I used to tell my hubby that therapists say if you want to have more sex, then just have more sex. Even if you don't want it, schedule it in, and just do it anyway. I thought that it was worth a go to try and increase my libido. He said he felt like a rapist, and didn't want to do it. 

But if I was your wife and you were asking ME that question, I would tell you that I think it's better to work on getting me to WANT sex, rather than pressuring me to perform my wifely duties. That's likely to lead to her hating sex, and do you really want her to hate sex for the rest of your marriage? There has to be a reason for her not having any sex drive, you just need to gently figure out what it is. It might very well be physical like it was with me, so perhaps the doctor would be a good start. Or a combination of things, the fact that she has a wee baby is surely a factor.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh yeah I agree with you, I'd love for her to want it, but I've tried to help with that for months...just not sure how long I should continue to help and not have sex....I know that sounds selfish but damn.


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

maybe get a fleshlight in the meantime


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

She actaully told me once to just take a hall pass and go get a BJ somewhere so I'd be nicer and she wouldnt' feel so pressured....


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

MotoD said:


> She actaully told me once to just take a hall pass and go get a BJ somewhere so I'd be nicer and she wouldnt' feel so pressured....


that's a slippery slope... I bet you're tempted, but consider seriously what you actually want the outcome to be. If you want the outcome to be you and her having a good sex life, then this is the wrong path. IF you don't care where you get it as long as you get it, then maybe. I find it hard to imagine that there would be no ramifications on your marriage though. Unless both of you were already open minded about that sort of thing and it truly didn't bother her.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh I didn't do it, I'm far too loyal....and I know myself.....no good can come of it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MotoD said:


> She actaully told me once to just take a hall pass and go get a BJ somewhere so I'd be nicer and she wouldnt' feel so pressured....


Stop that immediately. This is crap and you know it. If my wife said this to me, my next question would be when was she moving out and where should I have the divorce papers served.

The issue I see is that your wife is not taking any responsibility for this. She is so focuesed on being a mother that she has abdicated her responsibilities as a wife. She does not see it as a problem and it is up to you to figure out. I don't mean to vilify your wife. I have no idea if this is intentional or not, but intent does not matter - actions do.

So you need to quit whining and take care of yourself. Make yourself a better person. Go out and have some fun and enjoy life. At the same time, you need to quit taking care of her. If she asks you why, tell her that since she is not doing it, you need to. This aligns your actions with your words.

You also need to get yourself to a point where you can live without her. I hope it does not reach that, but consider if she decides not to change. You can't make her, so then what? Can you live like this the rest of your life? If not, what steps are you willing to take? Think hard about those questions and consider them as you take these steps. You have to answer them, so really think about them.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

zeeta said:


> You're right, I guess I wasn't thinking about satisfying Moto's sex drive, I was thinking more about their intimacy and making sure it doesn't die in the meantime. I don't know about Moto's wife, but I felt pissed off that after the birth of our baby my husband never tried to be intimate with me (by that I mean cuddles and non-sexual touches) but he expected me to want sex regularly.


If that is what was happening, I would agree. But I don't see that (though if you do, speak up, as I certainly miss things from time to time). 

To me, the clincher was her asking whether he would continue to pay for diapers and formula in the event they separated. That tells me that she is very deep into the "mother godess" mode, where all things revolve around her bond and upbringing of her child. Nothing else matters or is considered apart from how it effects the mother-child relationship. Unfortunately, the only way to wake her up is do things that effect her ability to focus on the child. This would be a very difficult line to walk.


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Make yourself a better person. Go out and have some fun and enjoy life.


This is good advice. On the odd occasion my husband indulges in some relaxing time, I find it very attractive. When he's working all the time and miserable, meh.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

zeeta said:


> This is good advice. On the odd occasion my husband indulges in some relaxing time, I find it very attractive. When he's working all the time and miserable, meh.


One of the best things that worked for me was to get back a bit to what I was like when we were dating. She fell in love and was very attracted to that guy, so being a bit more like him was very helpful to us.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Well upon returning home from doing some after hours work on remodeling a home, I actually was invited to join her in the shower....Go figure. Me being gone alot has paid off somehow??? Hoping the wake up call finally landed as I also had her next to me in bed last night....first time I wasn't alone in bed in months.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

MotoD said:


> Well upon returning home from doing some after hours work on remodeling a home, I actually was invited to join her in the shower....Go figure. Me being gone alot has paid off somehow??? Hoping the wake up call finally landed as I also had her next to me in bed last night....first time I wasn't alone in bed in months.


Careful with settling with breadcrumbs when what you need is a loaf a bread.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I know I know, but should I have turned it down....I mean? Can't have my cake and eat it too right?


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

MotoD said:


> I know I know, but should I have turned it down....I mean? Can't have my cake and eat it too right?


Never said that brother. That would cutting your nose off to spite your face. What i'm saying is that don't let your wife think that you are ok with a glass of water in the desert when you are expect an oasis.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

Ahhh Great analogy.


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## zeeta (Apr 9, 2012)

I disagree. Let her see how happy you are and don't be pushy (for now), she'll realise that if she makes more of an effort she gets a happy husband who stops harassing her for sex. My friend tells me that if her husband doesn't get sex for about two weeks he starts to get really moody. She initiates sex, then everything is nice again. Try to aim for that with your wife, show her that the shower made you relaxed and happy and hopefully she'll enjoy the happy you and do a repeat performance.


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## MotoD (Apr 5, 2012)

I don't have to try...I do get ****ty after a week or 2....crabby is a better term.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

zeeta said:


> I disagree. Let her see how happy you are and don't be pushy (for now), she'll realise that if she makes more of an effort she gets a happy husband who stops harassing her for sex. My friend tells me that if her husband doesn't get sex for about two weeks he starts to get really moody. She initiates sex, then everything is nice again. Try to aim for that with your wife, show her that the shower made you relaxed and happy and hopefully she'll enjoy the happy you and do a repeat performance.


Feel free to get crabby sooner than two weeks. 

Also, at some point you will need to initiate. Perhaps not right now, but part of a good relationship is her being open to you initiating and letting you get her in the mood.


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