# Change boards from 'considering' to 'going through'



## onefootouthedoor (Jun 29, 2017)

So D-day with my H was on Thursday. For the most part, I have been curled up in a ball crying since Friday morning. 

When I said the words "I think we should separate" he was like, fine - if that's what you want than that is it. In fact he went on to say that there will be no separation we will go straight to divorce. 

He said he has been 'baffled' for the last 8 months since I told him in Jan that I was not happy and he has been pretty much waiting for me to drop the bomb. He then seemed to be interested in just moving things along, working out finances, telling the kids, etc. He slept on the couch Thursday night for the first time ever in 19 years. 

The discussion was calm and he was very reasonable and said he understood that I was on my own journey and that he wanted me to be happy. Since Friday we have both been processing. We cried in each other's arms yesterday and I told him that I was not abandoning him and that I was here for him.

I was not prepared at all for this wave of emotions. I have been holding so much in for so long, I don't think I have felt anything in a long time and now all of a sudden it all comes whooshing out like a waterfall.

Leading up to this conversation I have had so much resentment built up I was barely able to look at him let alone talk to him.

Since our conversation, I have been longing for him, emotionally and physically. I didn't want to leave his side all day yesterday. Today, I have really been wanting to ask him for a hug, but I can see that he needs space from me so I am giving it to him and I don't want to give him mixed signals. I recognize I am grieving and I need to ride this out before trusting my own thoughts and feelings towards him during this process.

I think I felt stung when he didn't put up a fight. He didn't ask what could be done or offer counselling, etc.
Yesterday, he asked me if I had been feeling like this a long time. I was honest with him and told him that years upon years of dealing with is anger and lashing out at us has killed my spirit over the years and shut me down. We were always left holding the bag while he expected us to just sweep his outbursts under the rug and behave like they never happened 10 minutes after he cleared his own system. 

He somewhat acknowledged this, saying that he had a bad childhood (old news) and that was just the way he is. He said he is angry. He has never been interested in Counselling or trying help or heal himself. He just doesn't believe in it and just expects everyone to accept him the way he is and that's it.

Outside of his anger issues, he has a huge heart, he loves me and the kids and he walk across coals for us. Except, go to counselling.

So, this is where I am at. The tears keep coming. I know this is me processing, working through the reality of for so long. Time to let down my own guard and just let it all out.

I am sad that we are not capable of making a happy family. 

So, I guess no questions, just maybe looking for support and knowing that the deep sadness I am feeling right is normal.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

OneFoot, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., verbal abuse, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD. Only a professional can determine whether his BPD symptoms are so severe as to constitute a full-blown disorder. 

Rather, I'm suggesting he may be a "BPDer," i.e., may be a person who exhibits strong traits because he is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum. These traits are easy to spot whenever they occur strongly because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse and temper tantrums. Below, I respond to statements you made here today and in your 8/1 posts.



> He is verbally explosive by nature so I am fearful of staying here (or leaving the kids here) after I tell him.


The two most common explanations for such explosive behavior in adults are BPD and IED (Intermittent Explosive Disorder). Such outbursts are so strongly associated with BPD that four of the nine defining symptoms refer to this lack of control. These four traits are _"Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger," "Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors," "Intense and highly changeable moods,"_ and _"Having stress-related paranoid thoughts." _See 9 BPD Traits at NIMH.

Does your H exhibit frequent rage against total strangers (e.g., road rage)? I ask because frequent outbursts against strangers is a symptom of IED, not for high-functioning BPD. The vast majority of BPDers usually get along fine with casual friends, business associates, and complete strangers. 

Those people don't trigger a high-functioning BPDer's anger because none of them poses a threat to his two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to trigger the engulfment fear. This is why it is common for a BPDer to be courteous and friendly all day long to complete strangers -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love him.



> I believe this new behaviour is out of his own fear of my leaving him.... He is only fearful of himself being alone.


As noted above, he has a great fear of abandonment if he is a BPDer. This is why _"Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment"_ is one of the nine defining traits for BPD.



> He is superb at *playing victim* and making everything my fault.


BPDers seek validation of being "_The Victim_," always "The Victim." During the courtship period, a BPDer will receive that  validation from his perception of you as the rescuer who has arrived to save him from unhappiness. Because you are "The Rescuer," the implication is that he must be "The Victim" you are so intent on rescuing. 

Following the courtship period -- when his infatuation no longer holds his two fears at bay -- a BPDer will start perceiving of you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of his every misfortune. Regardless of whether you are "The Rescuer" (his perception when splitting you white) or "The Perpetrator" (his perception when splitting you black), you are satisfying his deep need for validation of being "The Victim." 



> He would prefer to just passively allow me to handle everything... I guess it gives him someone to blame if things go haywire.


As noted above, a BPDer has a powerful need to receive frequent "validation" of his false self image. Hence, if your H is a BPDer, you likely are correct that his allowing you to "handle everything" is strongly motivated by his desire to blame you whenever anything goes wrong. In that way, every mistake and misfortune becomes evidence of his being "The Victim."



> He said he is angry. He has never been interested in Counseling or trying help or heal himself. He just doesn't believe in it and just expects everyone to accept him the way he is and that's it.


It is rare for a high functioning BPDer to be willing to seek therapy -- or stay in it long enough to make a real difference. A BPDer is filled with so much self loathing (carried from early childhood) that the last thing he wants to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things he hates about himself.



> Outside of his anger issues, he has a huge heart, he loves me and the kids and he walk across coals for us.


Most BPDers I've met generally are very good people. Their problem is not being BAD but, rather, being UNSTABLE. Moreover, they usually are very easy to fall in love, especially for caregivers like you and me. It therefore is not surprising that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.



> He somewhat acknowledged this, saying that he had a bad childhood (old news).


If he is a BPDer, that is to be expected. A 2008 American study found that 70% of full-blown BPDers report that they had been abandoned or abused by a parent during childhood.



> The discussion was calm and he was very reasonable and said he understood that I was on my own journey and that he wanted me to be happy.


If he is a BPDer, you normally will be unable to discuss any sensitive issue with him because, within ten seconds, you will trigger one of his two fears. Yet, when all hell breaks out and a BPDer is having a breakdown over his fear of abandonment, he can have what is called a "moment of clarity." That is, he can suddenly have a high level of self awareness that lasts perhaps a day or two. But it almost certainly will have no lasting effect whatsoever.

During my 15 year marriage, for example, my exW had 5 or 6 such moments. They occurred whenever I discovered that she had done some awful thing (e.g., another $5,000 debt run up on a secret credit card). She was so scared that I would leave her that she had a breakdown and became quite self aware. In contrast, a man suffering from IED usually becomes self aware quickly after his emotions cool down. This is why an IEDer typically will sincerely apologize for his behavior when he regains emotional control. He will be sincerely sorry for his actions. 



> He thinks it does and gives him a better platform to lie about it leaving his word against the kids' words.


If he is a BPDer, he likely does not feel a need to lie very often because his subconscious works 24/7 protecting his fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting the bad thoughts and hurtful feelings onto you. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, he usually believes that the outrageous allegations coming out of his mouth are absolutely TRUE.



> He has always carefully walked that fine line leaving me in confusion over the years as to whether or not I was justified in leaving.


If you really have been living with a BPDer for 19 years, _"confusion"_ is exactly what you should be feeling. Because BPDers typically are convinced that their absurd claims are true, they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners so confused that they sometimes feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning. 



> I was not prepared at all for this wave of emotions.... Since our conversation, I have been longing for him, emotionally and physically. I didn't want to leave his side all day yesterday.


For caregivers like us, it is very painful to walk away from a BPDer. It took me 15 years. The primary reason is that it feels like you are walking away from a sick young child who, despite his periodic tantrums, dearly loves you. Because a BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old, he likely exhibits the vulnerability and purity of expressions that otherwise are seen only in young children. 

Moreover, whereas a full-blown narcissist and a sociopath are unable to love, a BPDer is able to love very intensely. It is an immature form of love, however, and thus falls far short of what is required to sustain a mature adult relationship. The result is that, with a BPDer, you are not in a wife/husband relationship. Rather, you are in a parent/child relationship. Simply stated, it is hard for us "parents" to walk away.



> I am frozen and not sure how to move forward... Any advice?


I suggest that you consult with _your own_ psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your two children have been dealing with for many years. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you read about BPD warning signs to see if most seem to apply.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your H's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot when they occur, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation by walking away -- and may help you decide whether the situation is sufficiently serious to warrant your spending money to obtain a candid opinion from your own psychologist, i.e., one who is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not his.

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _18 BPD Warning Signs_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _Maybe's Thread_. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you and suggest some professionally written online articles. Take care, OneFoot.


----------



## onefootouthedoor (Jun 29, 2017)

Wow. Thank you Uptown for the time you have taken to review and respond. This makes So Much Sense to me. I have glazed over BPD in the past but have not given it the attention that I likely should have.

He displays most of the traits you have detailed and I will definitely read further on this disorder and the links you provided.

I found myself yesterday in my weak state starting to fall prey to the 'guilty feelings' and having to fight against the easy way out which would be to veto everything and just stay. Again. Particularly, as a result of "it feels like you are walking away from a sick young child" and that "he likely exhibits the vulnerability and purity of expressions that otherwise are seen only in young children." as you have noted above. Yes, this is very much him.

But then I left the house away from him for the afternoon, talked through it with my mom and sister and then I saw your post. And it brought back my strength and re-centering myself that I am on the right path in leaving and that I must continue to move forward in that direction. The sooner I leave the better it is for all of us to start healing. I do not feel afraid in this moment as he is being very very amicable and I believe it to be sincere. He has continued sleeping on the sofa and he went out with one of his (very few) friends last night and told him (his wife texted me today) which I am glad for as he needs people to talk to and helps to make it more of a reality for him.

My thoughts today are that since he is not pushing back on my decision, or asking me to change my mind or addressing fixing it, than perhaps he is finding relief in this as well?

Your post on BPD has opened my eyes wider and really affirms to me that my leaving is no longer just a choice, it is a necessity.

thank you so much.


----------



## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> Your post on BPD has opened my eyes wider and really affirms to me that my leaving is no longer just a choice, it is a necessity.


OneFoot, given that you found most BPD traits applicable and have decided to leave your H, I offer several more suggestions.

*As an initial matter,* if you suspect your H has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell him. If he is a BPDer, he almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage him to see a good psychologist and let the psych decide what to tell him.

*Second,* I suggest you read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. If your H is a BPDer, the divorce likely will get very nasty very quickly.

*Third,* I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum focused on the spouses and family members of BPDers. It offers a dozen separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the Co-parenting After the Split board, Relationship Ended--Breakup Crises board , and Family Law, Divorce, and Custody board. The Family Law board can only be seen if you register as a member.

*Fourth,* while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. I suggest you read Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD and the article, No Contact: The Right Way. Another good article is Pain of Breaking Up at the Psychology Today website. 

*Fifth,* I again suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your children are dealing with. Your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists generally are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of his disorder -- for his own protection. 

This usually is true even when you are paying the bill and attending some of the sessions. Hence, to obtain a candid assessment, it is important to see a psychologist who is ethically bound to protect only your interests, not his. Relying on your H's therapist for advice would be as foolish as relying on his attorney for advice during a divorce.

*Sixth,* for tips on how to establish and enforce strong personal boundaries with a BPDer, I recommend an online blog by a psychiatric nurse. It provides 20 tips to nurses on how they can best deal with obstinate BPDer patients. It is located at BPD on the Behavioral Unit. If you think you have it bad, remember that those psychiatric nurses have to deal with many BPDers for hours every work day.

*Finally*, OneFoot, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Indeed, your other thread has already attracted over 1,800 views.


----------



## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

onefootouthedoor said:


> We cried in each other's arms yesterday and I told him that I was not abandoning him and that I was here for him.
> 
> I was not prepared at all for this wave of emotions. I have been holding so much in for so long, I don't think I have felt anything in a long time and now all of a sudden it all comes whooshing out like a waterfall.
> 
> ...


Hey there. I recently separated and it's not really the same situation except that I feel sorry for my H. One thing that has helped me when I feel really sad is to really think about what I am sad about. For me I am sad about the marriage falling apart, no one gets married with the desire that it will end. 

The fact that you say he'd walk across coals for you but not go to counselling is a great indicator. I made excuses for years for my H, why he didn't go for counselling that clearly he has HUGE fear about discovering things about himself etc, but ultimately I had to decide that I am not his keeper. You can love someone but not at the cost of yourself. So if he's not willing to help himself then you can do nothing and you are just enabling him by staying . I still mourn the end of our family unit, I miss the house, I miss the simplicity of having the family in one place, but I do not miss him. You deserve to be in a loving relationship, one that feeds your soul. I used to think if my H cared enough about the relationship he'd go for counselling but after 4 years of trying I realized he's just not able to look in the mirror and really look at himself because it's really not something he's interested in. So I had to take care of myself and decide that I can't be with someone like that no matter how much I loved him or thought he had potential to change. You can't live in hope of someone being the person you want them to be. They are who they are. Your H is right, he is who he is and he doesn't think there's anything wrong with that, he knows he's angry and he thinks it's ok. 

It's dangerous to seek comfort in your ex-partner because you are sending him mixed signals. You'll have to find another way to get comfort.


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, I can somewhat relate to your post but not thru your eyes, but rather thru your H's. I think I probably exhibited many of the same issues as he does. It is tough for you. Feeling as though you abandoning him and walking away. But here is the reality, if you didn't do those things, he might never get better. 
He still might never get better. But that is not anything you can control. He is the person who must make the changes necessary to become a better version of himself. Hopefully he will look into the abyss his life has become and finally face his own issues and become a better version of himself.
Or he may continue to wallow in the muck. He might move on making the same mistakes over and over again.
Wither way, while you may care, you cannot control what happens. As tough as it is, it will be up to him to get better. For you to stay, just makes you an enabler for him to NOT change.
Look at where you are with a hopeful eye, because you are making the change to better your self and your children's future and hopefully your H's. But remaining where you are? Well nothing changes as long as nothing changes.
You are giving him a gift. Whether he accepts it and what he makes of it remains to be seen.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I am so glad to read that you are finally on your way. Yes, there is a grieving process, even when you are the one making the decision to end things and when it really is for the best. Its hard letting go of not only your current, familiar life, but the life you had envisioned for the future with your H for the future.


----------



## onefootouthedoor (Jun 29, 2017)

Keenwa said:


> The fact that you say he'd walk across coals for you but not go to counselling is a great indicator. I made excuses for years for my H, why he didn't go for counselling that clearly he has HUGE fear about discovering things about himself etc, but ultimately I had to decide that I am not his keeper. You can love someone but not at the cost of yourself. So if he's not willing to help himself then you can do nothing and you are just enabling him by staying .


Yes - I feel the same - that my H has huge fear in discovering things or 'bringing up' things from his past and re-living or re-hashing. He has no interest in this and frankly, this is not where he cares to put his energy. We talked again the other night and again, without truly appreciating the effects that his anger has taken on us over the years, when we talked about how each of us endured both physical and emotional abuse as children at the hands of our parents, his response was "well you turned out ok and I turned out ok, don't you agree?" "it makes them stronger" [Note: he has never been physical with either of my kids - he is referring the 'yelling'].




Keenwa said:


> It's dangerous to seek comfort in your ex-partner because you are sending him mixed signals. You'll have to find another way to get comfort.


I appreciate this and have held back from doing so. After crying it out for 2 days I was able to find some clarity by Sunday.


----------



## Keenwa (Oct 26, 2013)

onefootouthedoor said:


> We talked again the other night and again, without truly appreciating the effects that his anger has taken on us over the years, when we talked about how each of us endured both physical and emotional abuse as children at the hands of our parents, his response was "well you turned out ok and I turned out ok, don't you agree?" "it makes them stronger" [Note: he has never been physical with either of my kids - he is referring the 'yelling'].
> 
> 
> 
> I used to use this as an excuse too. When my oldest was little and I was really angry with my H, since he didnt' listen, I often found myself getting angry with my daughter. I'd feel badly about this after and justify my crappy parenting, yelling or screaming by saying to myself that I turned out ok. It's a great way to excuse yourself but it doesn't help you or your kids and it's a bit of a burying your head in the sand tactic. Then as your kids become problematic you then say to yourself "well I don't know what's wrong with that kid, I've done everything". But truth of the matter is that you haven't because you haven't looked yourself long and hard in the mirror to realize that you're vomiting your own problems all over your kid. Well that's just my opinion and what I went through. But in order to be able to be different I had to look at what was not ok with my childhood and acknowledge it, and it's not about blaming our parents but acknowledging that we were not served or taken care of properly and giving ourselves permission to say "wow that sucked, and that was not ok".


----------

