# Opinions please,



## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

Hello,
can I ask your opinion on the following which is going on in my life at the moment.

I am 44 and W 42 and have been happliy married for 17years, no issues whatsoever, 2 teenage kids, always doing things as a family.

Last month I was looking through my PC browser history and came across Facebook messages to my wife from a man I did not know. I looked up his profile and he lives in a city 100 miles away from my town, and he has no mutual friends with me and my W.
I thought thats starnge, and did a bit of digging and they had become friends 2 months earlier, and there was not much posted on each others walls, and only a few "likes" of each others pots.
In the browser history however there were lots of private messages.

I confornted my W about this and she admitted she had met this guy on a girls night out, and that nothing had gone on, and they simply exchanged facebook details. She said he sent her a friend request the following day, and that she accepted, and had been speaking to him via messaging since.

I asked her to show me the messages to which she replied that she had deleted them at the end of each conversation as she didnt want me to see them as they might upset me. 

My W instantly went on FB deleted him as a friend and sent him a message saying that she would not be speaking to him ever again. She was really apologetic, and stated that nothing sexual has gone on and the deleted converstaions were all innocent general talk.

I am really upset over this and would like views on the matter.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Good and bad in my opinion. Good in that she reacted in the right way, bad that this happened at all. 

There may not have been anything overtly sexual, but your wife would have mentioned this guy if there hadn't been at least the whiff of something illicit. So you are fully justified in your feelings.

It may not have developed into a full emotional affair (EA) considering she didn't react angrily or defensively, but you can't be absolutely sure. Especially in light of below: 



Borroworro25 said:


> the deleted converstaions were all innocent general talk.


That is a huge red flag.

You need to know what happened on the night itself, is there anyone who was with her who you can trust to be honest? 

Put a keylogger on the computer and check all mobile, email, landline and all other forms of communication. You are going to have to be super-vigilant in case it was something more and they have taken it underground.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Borroworro25 said:


> I am really upset over this and would like views on the matter.


You have the right to be upset. Nip this in the bud, now. Key logger, detective whatever you need. 

This is how my cheater spouse, soon to be ex spouse start with his lover. Just friends. Yeah right. 

The fact that she met him on a girl's night out sees to suggest to me that she was looking for an affair. 

The fact that she was willing to delete him immediately, means that it likely would have been a friend's with benefits relationship. 

You are likely here security and comfort and she wants to stay married. She sounds like a cake eater. I have read that cake eaters are the worst and usually become serial cheaters.

But like all people who have affairs she was looking for the thrill of the new relationship for sex or flattery or flirting. None of that is good in a marriage.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

go get a program called fchat, it can retrieve some deleted messages


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

She seems open about most of it. She did not hide the fact that he was on FB. My wife got a friend request on FB in July 2011 and immediately deleted him after she set up a secret email account and her A started then. She told me that she knew right away that it would be more than a friendship on FB.

I think you are fortunate. Both of you (IMO) need to be very open about FB, passwords, accounts, etc. No deleting stuff.

In 2010 we had an agreement that if a guy friend requested her and a girl me we would share it and both would have to check them out. I did when a stranger friend requested her and he checked out OK, church member, father was a pastor, he had kids, married etc. Boy was I wrong. It went sexual (online) within three days.
Yes my wife is a piece of work. So even with rules, boundaries etc, stuff can still happen.

In your case your wife seems like there was nothing more than a casual meeting, which led to a FB friend request. Since you do not have the messages you will never really know what was said and how appropriate or inappropriate it was. 

The big issue is that your wife hid the fact that she was messaging this guy and knew you would be upset if you found out. She was right. She knew it was wrong and hid it. That is what needs to be addressed. Why she hid it, why she continued to be in touch with this guy when she knew you would be upset and why she did it in the first place.

I would be calm with your wife, talk it out, since she did the right thing once confronted and did not put up roadblocks once you brought it to her attention.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Borroworro25 said:


> she replied that she had deleted them at the end of each conversation as she didnt want me to see them as they might upset me.


That's the worst news of this story. 
What was in those messages that would make you upset?
That means she crossed the boundaries and didn't act like a married woman.
You should dig more into this. Convince her to talk to you about the deleted messages while at the same time try to verify (but don't tell her) through keylogger. Meanwhile you'll understand if she's being honest with you or not.
After she says she's done telling you all she could then you can evaluate and even confront her about other messages that she hasn't told you or half-truths.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If she is into this guy then you need to do what the others have said. Put a keylogger on her computer to see if she is using other methods to stay in contact with him. Don't sit back and do nothing. Play smart and don't let her know you are monitoring her. Ill bet you this relationship goes further than you think. 

And nip the GNOs in the bud. Girls nights out are death to a marriage when you have a wif elike yours who is sneakinga round talking to other men behind her husband's back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

bandit.45 said:


> And nip the GNOs in the bud. Girls nights out are death to a marriage when you have a wif elike yours who is sneakinga round talking to other men behind her husband's back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Not necessary at her age.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I agree with lovely girl about the following:

she had deleted them at the end of each conversation as she didnt want me to see them as they might upset me. 

This is totally damming. The only reason they would have upset you was because it was sexual. She is not acting like a married woman. How would she feel if the roles were reversed?


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

And yet, she'll invariably say that you are controlling if you tell her that this only proves that she is not responsible enough to have future girls nights out....

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life trying to police her lack of boundaries? This sounds like the perfect opportunity to ask her how seriously she really took her marriage vows, and let her decide where the marriage will go. Her willingness to put objective boundaries in place, like no GNO, and full transparency (with passwords) can answer your question and make our opinions irrelevant.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Borroworro25 said:


> I am really upset over this and would like views on the matter.


As others have noted, the fact that she deleted the messages is a very very bad sign, IMO.

It means they contain sexual innuendo at the very best and invites to outright sex at the worst. 

Why delete them otherwise?

Also, yes, nix the girl's night out. There is no need for a married person to have a girl's or boy's night out. 

I never did it. I was never interested in a girl's night out once married. 

My cheater spouse did have frequent boy's night outm and I later learned he was using them to cheat with OW.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

The deleted messages can be judged, in part, by what else was deleted. Were they part of a batch of old messages? If she cherry picked his messages, you may consider some forensics.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Borroworro25 said:


> I confornted my W about this and she admitted she had met this guy on a girls night out, and that nothing had gone on, and they simply exchanged facebook details.


...because the only thing that people do late at night is to exchange fb details :sleeping:


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for your opinions folks, gives me food for thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Update? I agree with the others, I find the deletions very alarming. She is playing you. You need to confirm she isn't contacting him some other way after her very public display of deleting him from facebook.

No good comes of the girls' night out. I hope you have told her that neither one of you should be going to bars without each other.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

keko said:


> ...because the only thing that people do late at night is to exchange fb details :sleeping:


:smthumbup:


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

OP, how was she with you recently - barring this FB msgs deleted?
I only hope that the precursor to an A got busted.

Go underground now, and do some detective work.


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

I suppose I have one small advantage in that I sort out my wife's cell phone and we only have one pc. Also she is not very "techy" hence she did not clear the pc history.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> No good comes of the girls' night out. I hope you have told her that neither one of you should be going to bars without each other.


Have the two of you talked about setting firmer marital boundaries?


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Have the two of you talked about setting firmer marital boundaries?



not yet I am still in the shocked/hurt phase to discuss.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

There are big things here:

1. On a GNO, she was flirting and exchanging info with another man. Clearly this was a night with the girls, it is group of girls going to a bar,dolled up, and looking to meet men.

2. She is giving out her contact info to men she meets. Married women honestly don't do this. Women looking to hook up do this.

3. She knew she was crossing a serious boundary and deleted the messages. She didn't choose to stop sending them. She chose to hide them.

I thnk GNOs are kind of done for her. 

I also think a keylooger and access to her phone and texts really need to be watched asthe OM may / will try again down the road, and there maybe others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

Borroworro25 said:


> Hello,
> I asked her to show me the messages to which she replied that she had deleted them at the end of each conversation as she didnt want me to see them as they might upset me.
> 
> My W instantly went on FB deleted him as a friend and sent him a message saying that she would not be speaking to him ever again. She was really apologetic, and stated that nothing sexual has gone on and the deleted converstaions were all innocent general talk.
> ...


Reading this gives a very weird feeling ... As others have said, the meeting and messages do not sound like innocent. especially the deleting part. Is this GNO a rare event or a frequent one? Also, if frequent one, how many such messages and friends could have been deleted?

Can you visit this friends FB page and find out if your wife's other GFs (from GNO) are also on his friends list, or was she the only one?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> There are big things here:
> 
> 1. On a GNO, she was flirting and exchanging info with another man. Clearly this was a night with the girls, it is group of girls going to a bar,dolled up, and looking to meet men.
> 
> ...


This is dead on.

As bad as her deleting this guys messages is the worst part is her behavior in exchnaging FB information with an OM in the first place. This is hooking up. This is probably not the only guy she has done this with.

GNOs are great when they do not involve OM.

What does she do on her GNOs? Is this bar hopping, dancing, heavy duty clubbing? Are there hotel stays involved? How late does she stay out? How often are the GNOs? Who are the other women she goes with? Are they divorced or otherwise single? Do you know their husbands? If so you may want to compare notes with them. Very likely some toxic friends here. Does she drink much?

Also, just unfriending someone does little. She needs to block him otherwise they could still be chatting. They can also still see each other information. 

You need to check for addtional FB pages, email accounts and a burner phone. Check for her texting or calling him. 

Indeed more went on that night than you would be happy about. But again it is her life style now that you should be most concerned with. I would totalling against these kind of GNOs now. She lost trust by hooking up with a stranger.

You guys should do His Needs Her Needs together, soon, and do the boundary setting exercise.

Do you have baoundaries as to oppiste sex friends? Does she have any other close opposite sex friends? Don;t just dismiss guys now on her FB that you do not know. Her behavior now puts into questions those as well.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Why in the world would someone blurt out "nothing sexual has gone on" unless something sexual went on or was going to go on????

Very strange


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

you don't delete innocent messages. end of.

what married woman gives a guy her contact details on a night out? She got caught and panicked which is why she went through the pretence of deleting him and telling him she'd never contact him again

all it's done is push it underground - but she'll be much more careful from now on...


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

tunahelper716 said:


> Borrow, how good is your relationship with your wife? I find that most WS find something either lacking or missing in their relationships before they do something like this.


I find , rather, it is something lacking or missing in themselves i.e. a conscience or sense of morality.
In any case, I agree , her behavior indicates, at least, a proclivity for cheating.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

The messages were romantic/sexual, that's why she deleted them.

They had a physical encounter on the girls night out. They continued contact beginning the next day and planned to do it again, maybe they had met up to do it again. 100 miles is not that far, probably a 2-hour drive, he could have come to your town.

Your wife will NEVER tell you the truth on her own.

Consider asking her to take a polygraph.

You know she is lying and you are in denial.

This also calls into question all of her past girls nights out and what goes on while she is out.

You are foolish if you do not object to any future girls nights out.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Borroworro25 said:


> I asked her to show me the messages to which she replied that she had deleted them at the end of each conversation as she didnt want me to see them as they might upset me.
> 
> My W instantly went on FB deleted him as a friend and sent him a message saying that she would not be speaking to him ever again. She was really apologetic, and stated that nothing sexual has gone on and the deleted converstaions were all innocent general talk.
> 
> I am really upset over this and would like views on the matter.


Yes, because innocent general talk always upsets husbands.

This would concern me, TBH.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Matt, you averted a possible affair good job!! Posts on here will get your head spinning, so read them with a grain of salt!!! 

She did the right thing!! Now, have those hard heart to heart conversations as to why? How it hurts? Etc etc 

Good luck!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

tunahelper716 said:


> Borrow, how good is your relationship with your wife? I find that most WS find something either lacking or missing in their relationships before they do something like this.


What is your experience with "most" WSs, exactly? Just curious.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> What is your experience with "most" WSs, exactly? Just curious.


Good question. As we know a WS will often justify their behavior by history rewriting. So they will complain to the AP and others about what is lacking in their marriage. Which of course is no excuse for an affair. It is just blame shifting.

Further, we also know that you cannot work on a marriage when there is an affair going on. 

The marriage for sure has real boundary issues. 

I do agree that the marriage is in trouble now and the couple needs to work on things.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Well, the only way I could have written a sentence like that ("I find that most WS find something lacking") is if I actually had an affair with more than one.

I would say the vast majority of WSs claim there is something lacking in their marriage. The problem is, this is a group of people who have deliberately chosen to enter into a secret relationship outside of marriage, rather than enter marriage counseling or filing for divorce.

In order to justify an affair, a WS begins by lying to themselves. *I* find that "most" BSs experience irritability, distancing, and picking fights from their spouses rather than attempts to communicate any 'needs' directly. That would be because the mentally healthy WS cannot maintain the duality: they must be loyal to one person or the other psychologically.

So whatever is lacking might truly lacking...or then again, it might not. The issues might have been explicitly communicated and ignored...or then again, they might not. It takes someone a little more objective than YOU or me, like a marriage counselor trained in infidelity, to sort through these issues, once the WS has EXITED the affair for good.

Please feel free to chime in here any time, tunahelper, to share your insight into the minds of WSs.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> Well, the only way I could have written a sentence like that ("I find that most WS find something lacking") is if I actually had an affair with more than one.
> 
> I would say the vast majority of WSs claim there is something lacking in their marriage. The problem is, this is a group of people who have deliberately chosen to enter into a secret relationship outside of marriage, rather than enter marriage counseling or filing for divorce.
> 
> ...


I read it the same way.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Well, the only way I could have written a sentence like that ("I find that most WS find something lacking") is if I actually had an affair with more than one.
> 
> I would say the vast majority of WSs claim there is something lacking in their marriage. The problem is, this is a group of people who have deliberately chosen to enter into a secret relationship outside of marriage, rather than enter marriage counseling or filing for divorce.
> 
> ...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Borroworro25 said:


> Hello,
> can I ask your opinion on the following which is going on in my life at the moment.
> 
> I am 44 and W 42 and have been happliy married for 17years, no issues whatsoever, 2 teenage kids, always doing things as a family.
> ...


Girls night out strikes again. One ,ahem, poster claims its way easier to pick up married women than single women.

All the women that I know of except one, that did/do GNO's are divorced now.

Hope OP learned something.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I find this interesting :

Science of Sex Appeal- Flirting Females - YouTube


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I find this interesting :
> 
> Science of Sex Appeal- Flirting Females - YouTube




also

Science of Sex Appeal Videos : Attraction : Discovery Channel


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> What is your experience with "most" WSs, exactly? Just curious.


Most women whose unmet needs he meets?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Most women whose unmet needs he meets?


so it would seem. Or as another BS cleverly put it, unmet wants.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Get a few voice-activated recorders (VAR) and plant them in the house and her car. You may catch her talking to her girlfriends about this OM?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Girls night out strikes again. One ,ahem, poster claims its way easier to pick up married women than single women.
> 
> All the women that I know of except one, that did/do GNO's are divorced now.
> 
> Hope OP learned something.


Same here. All the wives I know that had GNOs which involved going out to bars are divorced now, every single one of them having affairs that started at the bars.

BUT....

My fWW and our current circle of friends have GNOs that involve going to dinner and/or a movie (chick flick of course), then to one of our houses to watch a movie if they didn't watch one earlier, or simply to gossip and talk. They don't drink or go to bars, because they don't want to. A couple of the women are dead set against going out drinking and clubbing. I've had to go over to the other guys' house once in a while when the group would go to our house after their dinner/movie.


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

many thanks for all those that have taken the time to reply to my thread. I dont know where to go from here to be honest, whether just to monitor for a few weeks, and see where we are then. I am open to opinions.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Borroworro25 said:


> I am open to opinions.


You are not going to find a shortage of those here. What is you gut feeling? Studies show that if you genuinely suspect your partner you are usually right. 

Do you truly feel that she has cheated or would have?


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> You are not going to find a shortage of those here. What is you gut feeling? Studies show that if you genuinely suspect your partner you are usually right.
> 
> Do you truly feel that she has cheated or would have?


I suppose that it depends on the definition of cheating.

I am satisfied that all things considered that she has not been unfaithful. However the whole thing makes me feel sick all the same. She as far as I am concerned has been cheating on me, linking with another guy, accepting the friends request, chatting on FB, and worse of all deleting the messages so there was no transparency. 
So its not pleasant at all.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Borroworro25 said:


> many thanks for all those that have taken the time to reply to my thread. I dont know where to go from here to be honest, whether just to monitor for a few weeks, and see where we are then. I am open to opinions.


You really need to go to best buy and get a (2 if you can afford it) VARs (voice activated recorders. They start around $40 at Walmart/best buy) Oneposter said the OLympus brand $99, at best buy works great. Velcro one under her car seat and put one somewhere in the house she would likely make phone calls.

What she has done was extremely inapropriate. She will no doubt be talking to at least her girlfriends about it. She may also be calling the OM. He may tell her how to set up a secret email acct. There is a really good chance they got it on. And he knows/likes shge was a married woman.

If it were me I would put a keylogger on the computer.

Did you go to the link for retrieving Facebook chats?

Bring up a polygraph and see how she reacts. If she says you don't trust her,just say "not anymore."

Absolutely no more Girls Nights Out to bars or drinking.


Have you been doing anything to checkher out?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Borroworro25 said:


> I suppose that it depends on the definition of cheating.
> 
> I am satisfied that all things considered that she has not been unfaithful. However the whole thing makes me feel sick all the same. She as far as I am concerned has been cheating on me, linking with another guy, accepting the friends request, chatting on FB, and worse of all deleting the messages so there was no transparency.
> So its not pleasant at all.


In my opinion, cheating doesn't start with a hop in the sack. I mean it can--that's what a ONS is.

But for just about every other kind of affair, there is a lead up. There is a private, hidden relationship that's created FIRST. There are inappropriate confidences exchanged. There are things said (and DELETED) that any spouse would consider a betrayal. So while you might not ever be able to point to a single message and say, this is where she crossed the line--the point is the line has already been crossed. Yes, she is cheating. The question is what is your 'dealbreaker'--what line does she need to cross before you consider divorce?

I would absolutely verify what she is up to. I would monitor her activities for a couple of weeks. If that turns up clean, I'd give it a rest for a few weeks but then check again. Intermittent cheating can be very hard to catch.

--------------------------

I would go ahead and arrange for marriage counseling and read the book Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud & Townsend with her. I'm sure it's intensely frustrating to basically go back for a remedial marriage class, but she has issues.

There are other books (the first 3 have free website questionnaires that you should have her take):
5 Love Languages
His Needs / Her Needs
Love Busters
The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work

each book serves a different function, get them at your library if you don't want to buy them. These can serve as a "jump start" to reconnect with her and show her that you love her and want to be close.

Just remember that you can work yourself to the bone on the marriage, and you can spend $$$ on an MC, but if there are 3 people in the marriage, neither one of these is going to have much of an effect.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

And btw, doing nothing at all is known as 'rugsweeping'--just hoping this will all go away. That's called magical thinking. I'm sure you can imagine how effective it is when a big red flag like this one is waving in your face.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> In my opinion, cheating doesn't start with a hop in the sack. I mean it can--that's what a ONS is.
> 
> But for just about every other kind of affair, there is a lead up. There is a private, hidden relationship that's created FIRST. There are inappropriate confidences exchanged. There are things said (and DELETED) that any spouse would consider a betrayal. So while you might not ever be able to point to a single message and say, this is where she crossed the line--the point is the line has already been crossed. Yes, she is cheating. The question is what is your 'dealbreaker'--what line does she need to cross before you consider divorce?
> 
> ...


Absolutely correct. This is why I struggle with the right amount of "snooping". One absolutley does need to gather information. The competing element of time however is there. The longer this stuff goes on the worse it gets. If one waits they may decide things are so bad they do not want to R.

I understand when people say, if someone wants to cheat they will cheat. My assumption is that then I owuld kick them to the curb, but that my actions would first assume the positive that the WS is in trouble and needs help to get it turned around. 

I think if there is inappropriate behavior it needs to stop before there is unfaithfulness. Unfaithfulness needs to be dealt with before full blown cheating. I think there is a point of no return for some people as well. That even if confronted during unfaithful behavior they will continue on. My intent would be to cathc these early. Before the brain chemicals get too high. 

BUT, I also recognize the experience on this forum with folks who feel they confronted too soon.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> And btw, doing nothing at all is known as 'rugsweeping'--just hoping this will all go away. That's called magical thinking. I'm sure you can imagine how effective it is when a big red flag like this one is waving in your face.


Rug sweeping is just a total fail. It is what a lot of people want to do. Certainly yhe WS wants this. But also the BS. It is very painful to work through this stuff. Sometimes people just want to let things heal on their own without dealing with affair in proper fashion. Bad idea.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> so it would seem. Or as another BS cleverly put it, unmet wants.


Ah, yes. Very true. Insightful. I think this can be very true. There is a difference between needs and wants. Yes, sometimes wht the AP brings are wants to the WS. It is a fantasy for sure. Excellent point. Something that many of us overlook. 

A BS may indeed be reasonably meeting their spouses needs. This goes a long way to reduce vulnerability but is no garantee. Some people are captured by a selfishnees that lets them be attracted to the bigger better deal. Money and status. Maybe just acting out a single life style. Some may enjoy and want to cake eat.

Yes. We can say that someone is trying to fullfil needs but those needs appear more selfish and greedy. I get the shades of gray but there is a difference between legitimate needs and wants. Needs are for the most part assumed to be able to be met within the marriage. Wants may be totally counter to a marriage.

I want to just say that your insights are helping me a great deal.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Borroworro25 said:


> I suppose that it depends on the definition of cheating.
> 
> I am satisfied that all things considered that she has not been unfaithful. However the whole thing makes me feel sick all the same. She as far as I am concerned has been cheating on me, linking with another guy, accepting the friends request, chatting on FB, and worse of all deleting the messages so there was no transparency.
> So its not pleasant at all.


You do not have to use my definitions by any means but I see the following continuum:

Inappropriate Behavior -> Unfaithfulness -> Cheating

In her case :

Inappropriate Behavior -- check. Goig out on GNOs where the women are flirting, drinking and dancing with other men. This would be unfaithful behavior if you objected to it. In my marriage this would be flat unfaithful.

Unfaithful Behavior -- check. Exchanging contact information with a guy she met met at a bar or club is hooking up and planning for more. I see this as clearly unfaithful.

Cheating -- We don't know. We could even say that what she did above is cheating. But cheating would for sure be any intimate physical contact or sexual exhange like sexting or nude photos. I see intimat dancing as cheating. Kissing is cheating.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Borroworro25 said:


> I suppose that it depends on the definition of cheating.
> 
> I am satisfied that all things considered that she has not been unfaithful. However the whole thing makes me feel sick all the same. She as far as I am concerned has been cheating on me, linking with another guy, accepting the friends request, chatting on FB, and worse of all deleting the messages so there was no transparency.
> So its not pleasant at all.


Consider how you would feel if you found out she gave her telephone number to a guy while she was at a bar (for all you know, she may have done that as well). Because that is effectively what she did. Because it has come about so recently, and is often used to keep in touch with casual friends, many people, especially those who are in your age group, don't consider what Facebook allows. Giving that contact information allows him to contact your wife just as if she had given him her phone number. 

Would you consider your wife giving a many at a bar or club her phone number to be a faithful act?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Consider how you would feel if you found out she gave her telephone number to a guy while she was at a bar (for all you know, she may have done that as well). Because that is effectively what she did. Because it has come about so recently, and is often used to keep in touch with casual friends, many people, especially those who are in your age group, don't consider what Facebook allows. Giving that contact information allows him to contact your wife just as if she had given him her phone number.
> 
> Would you consider your wife giving a many at a bar or club her phone number to be a faithful act?


Yes. FB is so much more than people realize. You can get someones phone number, their chat, their email and so on.

That is why giving someone at a bar your FB is not an innocent thing.

I see it as unfaithful.


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

I have also noticed that my W leaves her phone lying around everywhere now, as if to say "look you can trust me"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

Borroworro25 said:


> I have also noticed that my W leaves her phone lying around everywhere now, as if to say "look you can trust me"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Probably because she has a burner phone already and isn't using this one. Have you checked phone records? I'm guessing 100 miles away isn't far enough since they were able to meet at a GNO.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

one_strange_otter said:


> Probably because she has a burner phone already and isn't using this one. Have you checked phone records? I'm guessing 100 miles away isn't far enough since they were able to meet at a GNO.


100 miles is nothing. I used to drive that far roundtrip to and from my job everyday. So it is a two hour tip. Folks travel thousands of miles to hook up.

So on the one hand her being transparent is a good thing. You just cannot trust it without verifying. Especially in this case IMO. Not trying to be a downer because this might be good. But if she went underground which many folks do they would do exactly this.

Did she block him on FB or just unfriend him? Also does she use skype?
One can use online mail accounts also.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

chapparal said:


> You really need to go to best buy and get a (2 if you can afford it) VARs (voice activated recorders. They start around $40 at Walmart/best buy) Oneposter said the OLympus brand $99, at best buy works great. Velcro one under her car seat and put one somewhere in the house she would likely make phone calls.
> 
> What she has done was extremely inapropriate. She will no doubt be talking to at least her girlfriends about it. She may also be calling the OM. He may tell her how to set up a secret email acct. There is a really good chance they got it on. And he knows/likes shge was a married woman.
> 
> ...


Have you been doing anything to check her out?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Borroworro25 said:


> I have also noticed that my W leaves her phone lying around everywhere now, as if to say "look you can trust me"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife does the same with her phone. Yes she had a burner phone but prior to D-day and for several months her phone was off limits and I knew that she was not using it for anything bad (the burner phone was for that). She was keeping things secret and one night I surprised her by coming home on a Thursday night and looked at her phone. I was shocked by what I found in that people who were supporting me had turned on me because of my drinking and anger. Her one brother was telling me to D me. So it helped me snap back to reality.

She allows me to check her phone and does not delete stuff. I hope this continues.

I think your wife is doing the same. I would still be on guard for a while.


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

The key to all this are the deleted chats. Has anoyone used Fcchat or similar to a positive effect? My understanding is once the messgaes are deleted there is no way on earth they can be retrived? most of the messaging was via FB on an android phone could they be retrived does any one know?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Borroworro25 said:


> The key to all this are the deleted chats. Has anoyone used Fcchat or similar to a positive effect? My understanding is once the messgaes are deleted there is no way on earth they can be retrived? most of the messaging was via FB on an android phone could they be retrived does any one know?


Have you googled it? If I remember correctly fchat retrieved the info from the computer hard drive.

If she is claiming no contact now you need to get a couple of VARsand put in her car under the seat and in the house where she most likely would use her phone or a burner phone. If she was in an EA, they are almost impossible to quit cold turkey.

Keylog the computer to see if she has secret email or opens a new one.

Some ot the posters know how to get info off of smart phones and retieve some kinds of messages from face book. Have you looked through her facebook history? That has been described here but I wasn't paying attn.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If she deleted everything she did not want you to read it. You really need to look into what she is doing now.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Borroworro25 said:


> The key to all this are the deleted chats. Has anoyone used Fcchat or similar to a positive effect? My understanding is once the messgaes are deleted there is no way on earth they can be retrived? most of the messaging was via FB on an android phone could they be retrived does any one know?



the way fchat works is that it accesses and restores the temp memory that was used for chat on your computer, thus if the temp memory gets overwritten from heavy usage the older stuff gets unrecoverable and only the chats done on the computer can be retrieved


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

Oh dear it gets worse, checking the W cell bill I find 284 messages from another guy, an ex co worker, I confronted her about this guy and she told me that he is only a 25 year old kid and not to be silly. She could not show me the texts because she had deleted them "to save memory" and again they were innocent!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

You are reading this site for a while and I think you learned nothing from here. Why you confronted soon? when you know what she will say to you.

Did you got any key logger? Did you retrieved her deleted chat messages?


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## Borroworro25 (May 29, 2012)

I know, basic error but I saw red and reacted badly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Deleting texts doesn't save that much memory if any at all. My phone deletes texts after so many on its own to make room for the latest text etc. You only delete texts to hide them or destroy the evidence!!!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

In the meantime, prepare yourself financially for separation or divorce. I am not saying that you will but, rather, you feel more secure should you need to go this route.

Remove yourself from any joint debts, credit cards, etc...
Review your life insurance beneficiary, wills, etc...
Start parking your own monies and other assets into your own (private) account.

Prepare yourself mentally for separation/divorce.


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## Monroe (Jun 21, 2012)

You can download deleted messaged right through FB. If you have access to your wife's FB, go to "account settings"... click on "Download a copy of your facebook data"... it's at the bottom of the list of options. It will ask you to verify who you are.... I think I just re-entered the password (I can't remember... it's been several months since I did this)... 

One warning... it does take a lot of time... so do it when you have time alone.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What phone? The memory reason is most likely bullsh!t. Phones these days have a lot of memory.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What phone? The memory reason is most likely bullsh!t. Phones these days have a lot of memory.


Older Nokias etc. have very limited memory, but my WW used to use the same excuse. It's rubbish. She will be lying - no doubt of that.


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## Paulination (Feb 6, 2012)

Borroworro25 said:


> Oh dear it gets worse, checking the W cell bill I find 284 messages from another guy, an ex co worker, I confronted her about this guy and she told me that he is only a 25 year old kid and not to be silly. _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take a deep breath and step back from the emotions as hard as that may be. As a practical matter you MUST know the state of your marriage. This may be all innocent in the sense that she may not be trying to have an affair and may be talking about innocent things but at the very least she has crossed a couple of boundaries that need to be re-established. She must also learn that though her intent may be innocent, those of the men are not.

On GNO, there is no well intentioned man would exchange info. with your wife. He wanted to slowly seduce her at the very least. It amazes me how many women don't get that. Same thing with Mr. 25 year old. Remember when you were 25 years old? How much effort would you put into a women you didn't want to bang?

So, at the very least you have other roosters trying to get into the hen house and you have to defend the marriage from that by insisting your wife stops these behaviors. Until she learns the nature of men, there should be no more GNO either.

But, there is the other possibility that your wife is initiating all of this and that is why you need to get smart and investigate.

I had red flags as well so I investigated my wife and luckily for me there was no other men. I even witnessed some guy trying to slowly seduce her on FB and as soon as it started getting that way my wife recognized it, shot him down and blocked him from seeing when she was on. I needed to see that. With the threat of a third party being ruled out I was able to focus on what was really wrong with the marriage. 

I don't know what your resistance is. Don't feel guilty by doing whatever you need to do to protect your marriage.

Get the keylogger. Just go online and find one.
Get the VAR for the car
Keep an eye on the phone logs.
Monitor the FB activity.

Do this for 3 months and if you find nothing, let it go. If you do find something, do not confront or let her have a clue that you have until it is irrefutible and can be shown to her to minimize the lying.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Borrow do not ignore this. You need to check your phone records. I mean yea you go to a bar and hand out ONLY FB info. What she took the time to write out the entire url to her new friend (this is bull$#$% and you should know it, they likely traded numbers. FB was probably an easy way not to alarm you since most people don't look into them. So deleting him from facebook may have just been inconsequential. Your phone records should tell you alot. You are looking for long phone conversations, excessive text messaging, mms messages, and amounts of calls.

If you don't recognize a number call it from your phone posing as a business or service. You can then say your wife (by first and last name) referred him for a free _____ . 

No matter what dude says it does not matter to not let on that you are the BS. You just pretend to be civil and nice. remind yourself that it is your wife who you are pissed at.

Also look through her history and see if she has a email account you don't know about. 

One way to check is to go on her computer and go to google, yahoo, and hotmail. On each site go to the login area, press down on the keyboard in the email address bar. Browser have an auto fill feature and pressing down arrow accesses the cache. where successful account logins are stored. Also if you WS decided to save the password it will auto fill the password for you.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Unbelievable. My husband and I text throughout the day, no way could we run up the numbers that high. But, given what happened with the other situation you know about, this is hardly surprising. Both together suggest your wife craves male attention, and she's not very picky how she gets it. She is either very self-centered, or she lacks self-esteem, but either way she almost surely needs counseling to address her very poor boundaries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Boro

Stop confronting her until you have real hard evidence!

Your wife is BS'ing you!

What kind of cell phone does she have?

And listen to the others.

Install keylogger......
Install VAR's............

Time to get smart my man!

HM64


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey bw---time to lay in some strict boundaries

No more GNO---whatsoever, no more phone, take it away---we all got along very nicely on this planet, without cellphones---and she is doing inapropos things with her phone---she is contacting other men, and it is cheating---she will probably argue that with you---no argument, to be allowed, you just tell her---if she wants to stay in this mge, and continue with her nice lifestyle, and have a loving H., and family she WILL comply with your demand

She can't be trusted, so she loses the right to use the phone, and if you ever catch her using a hidden phone---mge. is over---also same thing for the computer---she stays off the computer---no face book---no social websites---no nothing

If you do not throw out boundaries, and support them with actionable consequences, your mge., has no chance

She is cheating by doing nothing more than talking to other men, when she herself has a H/family/kids?? at home

Why does any 42 yr. old woman, set up a friendship with a 25 yr. old male---I think everyone here can give you that answer

Stop being naive---demand Poly, demand STD.---once again enuff, is enuff, and she needs to know NOW, you will tolerate no more transgressions from her

I threw up a thread called Doc Cool---it gives you the cheaters playbook---one of their rules, to throw the betrayed off, and tone down his suspicions, was to immediately make the phone available to him----she knows exactly what she is doing, and whatever your future is, you better start laying in some boundaries, with consequences---or you are gonna be adding to this thread that she is still cheating, and it has gone PA---which it very well may have already.


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