# This can't be normal



## AtWitsEnd1 (Dec 1, 2016)

I know the old saying, “if momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy”, but I think she is taking it to the extreme. We met 7 years ago and married 6 years ago. I am now 40 and she is 28. I have 2 kids from a previous marriage who are 18 and 17, both seniors in high school. They were in their mothers custody when we were first married with me having normal visitation with the kids (ie: going to their school events, every other weekend, about half the holidays, etc) which I exercised regularly. They were placed in my sole custody only about 5 months into our marriage for reasons I won’t go into here. It was traumatic for them and they were in counseling for quite a while, they are doing well now.

Things started going downhill fast when we gained full custody of them. While we were dating, she seemed to get along great with the kids, taking them to the pool, shopping, eating, etc. I think it was because we didn’t have them full time and it wasn’t a thought of mine that the situation would change anytime in the near future. Obviously, I was wrong.

As the kids became adjusted to living with us with going to school we decided they needed to have some responsibilities around the house. My younger daughter has adjusted to her responsibilities quite well, however my older daughter can’t seem to do anything right by her step-mothers eyes. My eldest has the responsibility of cleaning the dishes. The way she likes to do them is by laying out the dishes on the counter next to the sink and clean them one at a time. When she does this, my wife gets furious stating she should use one side of the sink for dirty and one side for cleaning, and rinse them off in between. I don’t see the point as long as they are getting done. We have established a time for them to be in bed by 10:00pm every night (they get up at 5:00am for school each day). If they are tired before that, I don’t have a problem, but once again, she does and will not allow them to go to bed any earlier than 10:00. She has the same issues with me, if I happen to be tired and fall asleep on the couch while watching TV, all hell breaks loose.

She and I both work full time, she started her job in 2014. We make a decent living and can afford some luxuries, however in her eyes, the kids don’t deserve any of it. Even when it came time for back to school shopping, items that were on the list from teachers that were required, she refused to buy them, so I would end up having to go behind her back to get them the items they needed. I tried to explain to her why they needed the items, and she stated that she just didn’t want to spend the money. However, through all of this, she has no problem spending well over $300 per month on new clothes for herself and nothing for the kids. Every now and then, she will but them a small item and throw it in my face stating something like, look when I bought them (usually something of a very small value). They have no cell phones, while she has the latest. They have no access to anything electronic at home unless it is to do homework). She doesn’t want them to learn to drive (they don’t even have permit’s yet). They have both stopped asking for anything at this point since they know anything they do get will be swiftly taken away from them, by her, and never given back. They have already stated they want to go to community college next year, I told her we could easily afford to pay their tuition without them having to incur a lot of debt, and she won’t allow it and doesn’t even want to hear the explanation why.

All of this isn’t only directed at the kids, a lot gets directed at me as well. She acts like a little kid throwing a fit when she doesn’t get her way. I just retired from the military after 20 years a few months ago. She told me the night before the event at about 11:00pm that she wanted to go the Veterans Day parade in town the next day at 8:00am. I wasn’t planning on going since we had been so busy lately. I informed her about my feelings and it seemed to me that she agreed. The next morning though, she was in a full on rage about not going. On days I decide to make dinner, she will occasionally get angry stating she had other plans to make something else, however she never told me. Yesterday, I came home a little early since I had an appointment that went shorter than I expected. When I got home, I decided to play my video game for about an hour before the kids got there. When she got home I told her about my day and she gets angry again for me “wasting my time playing that stupid game”. (Yesterday was the first time in months I had been on it). She is constantly demanding things to be done on her schedule, no one else’s. When I put the holiday decorations out last weekend, I took a small break between doing the inside of the house and outside the house (needless to say, she didn’t help me with either). While I was taking a break, she gets angry again (surprise) saying I was wasting too much time and the get it done (everything was done it 1 day).

When she comes home, I have no idea what her attitude is going to be when she walks through the door. When she is in a good mood, they evening can go great, everyone gets along, has fun, etc. When she is in a bad mood, it feels like the 3 of us have to apologize for everything, hell, even if we breath wrong. 
I am really thinking of filing for divorce soon, because even when the kids do decide to leave, I don’t see them wanting to come back to be around her, and I don’t even think she would miss them. She’s even said that she wasn’t to kick my eldest daughter out when she’s out of high school (I’m not going to let it happen). I also don’t see her attitude changing once they leave home either and I’ll still be stuck with a very childish spouse.
Thanks for anyone who made it through that entire rant.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So you married a 22 year old kid when you were 34, divorced, and with 2 kids because?

You married a kid and are now upset because she's acting like a kid.

What exactly made you think this was a good idea?


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## lam1976 (Dec 2, 2016)

I feel your pain. I am 40 my husband is 33. I have two children 22 and a 15y/o. He has two that are 7 & 9. Though he has kids, he has never really had to deal with the 24/7 parenting and had full responsibility of the kids because he does not have custody. He thinks I do too much for mine, which I admit I may, but I do just as much for his as well. I feel sometimes he just looks for things to complain about. Petty crap most of the time, and I feel he does things to cause issues b/w my children and I. My daughter is married and recently had baby, lives out of state and is moving back and everything is an issue. I am contemplating now, staying or leaving. It is so hard to weigh out. We have 5 1/2 years together. I just am emotionally exhausted. I feel guilty for being up and down and want to be committed to the marriage just have issues and don't want to feel every thing I do in the future for my children or grandchildren will be an issue. We talk about it and I think maybe I have somehow made him understand and then he complains and I know my children are not comfortable being around. Keep in mind my son is 15 and lives at home with me. I wish you the best, we all are different and is not always a bad thing. I hope you two can work it out. At least your children are grown basically and at some point you have to live your life for what is best for you. Your children will soon have lives of their own and though you were be a part of it some of the issues you have now may not be so massive.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Wow have you asked her why she acts this way?

She is being childish, and is apparently to young to understand you came as a package deal. 

Do the kids have jobs or do anything to earn their own money?


Have you suggested marriage or family therapy?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

No, this is not normal.

You need to protect your children from being treated this way. A large part of the problem is that you just seem to let your wife bully you and your daughters.

Why is your wife even involved in things with your daughters? You should be the one who supervises things like doing the dishes. While I find the way your daughter does dishes strange, (soaking them all first makes cleaning dishes a lot easier) if she gets them done no one should care? 

You should be the one taking your daughters shopping for school supplies, not your wife. If your wife wants to take them to get some extra things, that ok too.

Basically you, not your wife, should be the one responsible for taking care of your daughters.

There are some good books on step partnering. I suggest you get a couple and read them.

And I suggest that you and your wife go together for marriage counseling and to learn how to parent children in your current situation.

If you don't go to counseling, fix the dynamics in your relationship and parenting your children, I suggest that the two of you get a divorce and you finish raising your children on your own.


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## lam1976 (Dec 2, 2016)

Sorry I think I must have missed the entire paragraph about her not doing for your children. What?? You clearly are putting to much value in what she wants for your children and her intentions may not even be in their best interests. At no point should it be her way or no way about the children. It is wonderful she wants to be involved and you allow her to be but why does your opinion not matter, and technically they are your children. Your girls are adults basically and they should also have some input at this point. Has her ideas with spending less on them became more of an issue since she started working in 2014? I don't think you should ever have to lie to her about what you do for your children. I think you should be able to disagree and at some point you have to decide what the best choice is for your children not just because she says so. If her points are valid, wonderful. If not then remind her that you ultimately have to think about them and what is best for them. My gosh, I am sorry I missed that paragraph. Don't continue to excuse her putting herself in front of the children. I do not see any possible justification of anyone not purchasing necessary school supplies but being able to spend several hundred on themselves that are not necessities. I never allow my husband to decide what is right for my children. His insight is important and considered but his insight is just that, not the law. As a parent it is my job to make sure I do what is best for the kids. 7 years and this entire time have you not worried about what would happen to your girls if something happened to you?


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

The first thought that popped in my mind as I was reading:
Wicked Step Mother = Your Wife
Cinderella = Your Oldest Daughter


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> So you married a 22 year old kid when you were 34, divorced, and with 2 kids because?
> 
> You married a kid and are now upset because she's acting like a kid.
> 
> What exactly made you think this was a good idea?


What! You gotta be kiddin? Ask any man...

She had all the great attributes: looks, young body, energy, naiveté', not too many partners, *being young she could be trained.* 

Oh, damn! I forgot. Only men can be trained. As can dogs.

Women are like cats. Ain't no man gonna train me!

My jaw is protruding, go ahead, swing at it!


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> So you married a 22 year old kid when you were 34, divorced, and with 2 kids because?
> 
> You married a kid and are now upset because she's acting like a kid.
> 
> What exactly made you think this was a good idea?


LTS ~
This cracked me up!
VH


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## AtWitsEnd1 (Dec 1, 2016)

We have done the counseling thing, nothing changed coming out of it. She would tell the counselor that I make her angry when it appears that I don't listen to her needs. I am in a constant state of attempting to fulfill her needs whether they be emotional, physical, you name it, however it never seems to be enough, there's always more, more, more, and she will in no uncertain terms, point out what I didn't do, versus what I have done. Compliments never come out of her mouth, ever. Never a thank you for anything the kids or I do. The counselor even stated that is was her decision on how she felt, no one else's. Every time that was mentioned, we would leave the office and she would call the counselor a quack who didn't know what they were talking about.

For clarification, we generally will take care of shopping for the kids together. She insists that she wants to go along, even though I know it's just going to cause turmoil. However, if she doesn't go, even if I tell her everything that was bought, show the receipt, there must be something I'm hiding, so there is no trust from her. I can already see how Christmas shopping is going to go. Her parents have completely taken her side on everything with the kids and don't think they deserve anything either, even though she was spoiled as a child growing up.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lam1976 said:


> Sorry I think I must have missed the entire paragraph about her not doing for your children. What?? You clearly are putting to much value in what she wants for your children and her intentions may not even be in their best interests. At no point should it be her way or no way about the children. It is wonderful she wants to be involved and you allow her to be but why does your opinion not matter, and technically they are your children. Your girls are adults basically and they should also have some input at this point. Has her ideas with spending less on them became more of an issue since she started working in 2014? I don't think you should ever have to lie to her about what you do for your children. I think you should be able to disagree and at some point you have to decide what the best choice is for your children not just because she says so. If her points are valid, wonderful. If not then remind her that you ultimately have to think about them and what is best for them. My gosh, I am sorry I missed that paragraph. Don't continue to excuse her putting herself in front of the children. I do not see any possible justification of anyone not purchasing necessary school supplies but being able to spend several hundred on themselves that are not necessities.* I never allow my husband to decide what is right for my children.* His insight is important and considered but his insight is just that, not the law. *As a parent it is my job to make sure I do what is best for the kids*. 7 years and this entire time have you not worried about what would happen to your girls if something happened to you?


While shopping for Christmas presents [for my Grandchildren] I noticed a women with a shopping cart ahead of me. She too was buying presents for her children. Her husband was by her side the whole time and seemed disconnected. Most men hate to shop so I attributed this to his behavior. 

A couple of minutes later, he brought a box [containing a toy] and put it in the cart. She said something nasty to him. Then she took the box out of the cart and threw it on the floor. He stood there stunned. After a couple of seconds he flipped the shopping cart over and walked out of the store.

*He did what was best for his marriage and what was best for his children.*


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You're the 40 year old in the family - start acting like it. Sit her down and tell her things are going to change and then outline the changes. You can't expect a woman to know how to be an instant mom to teenagers when she is barely older than a teenager herself. What you have are three teenagers in the same house and two of them are jockeying for position. 

As for what her parents think - who cares?


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## lam1976 (Dec 2, 2016)

We definitely can not please our spouse at all times. Honestly it is not even our job. A healthy marriage should have disagreements and honesty. You should feel confident enough in your marriage and your spouse that when you have a concern she will help address your concern. I understand when you got custody some things changed unexpectedly, but not even knowing what your girls had gone through to have change in custody. Not only is that a huge event in their life, they now have completely different environment and full time step Mom in home. Not to mention teenage years are crazy for girls especially. If you have done counseling and have talked and tried, and nothing has changed or improved you are probably down to the decisions. Hard pill to swallow and no one can say what is best for you but you. You don't need her parents approval, did you care if you got it when you first started dating? Don't let what everyone else thinks and says make your decisions for you. They do not have to live with your decisions, you and your girls do. We have to remember that we are not always the problem, sometimes the problem lies within the person themselves. So sorry but sounds like you are finally accepting things and that is a step that is never too late. Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> We have done the counseling thing, nothing changed coming out of it. She would tell the counselor that I make her angry when it appears that I don't listen to her needs. I am in a constant state of attempting to fulfill her needs whether they be emotional, physical, you name it, however it never seems to be enough, there's always more, more, more, and she will in no uncertain terms, point out what I didn't do, versus what I have done. Compliments never come out of her mouth, ever. Never a thank you for anything the kids or I do. The counselor even stated that is was her decision on how she felt, no one else's. Every time that was mentioned, we would leave the office and she would call the counselor a quack who didn't know what they were talking about.
> 
> For clarification, we generally will take care of shopping for the kids together. She insists that she wants to go along, even though I know it's just going to cause turmoil. However, if she doesn't go, even if I tell her everything that was bought, show the receipt, there must be something I'm hiding, so there is no trust from her. I can already see how Christmas shopping is going to go. Her parents have completely taken her side on everything with the kids and don't think they deserve anything either, even though she was spoiled as a child growing up.


You are partly at fault here because you put up with this. You have taught her that it is ok to treat you this way. You have taught her that it is ok to treat your children this way. You need to learn how to stand up to her and stop this nonsense. If you cannot, you need to divorce her as I stated earlier, and raise your children on your own.

There is a book that you really need to read: No More Mr. Nice Guy. Get it. Read it. Do what it says.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Your 18 year old has a bed time??? Lol.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

This can't be real. There isn't an 17/18 year old in the world that doesn't have a cell phone.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> I am really thinking of filing for divorce soon, because even when the kids do decide to leave, I don’t see them wanting to come back to be around her, and I don’t even think she would miss them. She’s even said that she wasn’t to kick my eldest daughter out when she’s out of high school (I’m not going to let it happen). I also don’t see her attitude changing once they leave home either and I’ll still be stuck with a very childish spouse.
> Thanks for anyone who made it through that entire rant.


I agree with you 100%. Right now your number one priority should be your daughters. They suffered enough. Speak to a lawyer not just about the divorce but about putting some of your assets in your daughter's name so that your wife and her family can't get their hands on it. Look in on how your pension would be treated.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> What! You gotta be kiddin? Ask any man...
> 
> She had all the great attributes: looks, young body, energy, naiveté', not too many partners, *being young she could be trained.*
> 
> ...


Relax sun.....no punch will be forthcoming here.

One can use any criteria they want to pick a mate, but if a quality is important then look for it. 

Otherwise you can't complain. 

If the only thing that mattered to him was a much younger woman he wanted to sleep with then he can't complain about her lack of maturity.

Frankly such a choice out of a divorced father suggests he's not all that mature.

If he wanted a mature woman who would participate in the raising of his kids he should've thought of that. 

Moral of the day: if you use shallow criteria to choose a partner you give up the right to complain when you get a poor partner.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Relax sun.....no punch will be forthcoming here.
> 
> One can use any criteria they want to pick a mate, but if a quality is important then look for it.
> 
> ...


Amen.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

No this is NOT normal. I cannot believe you let this happen in your own home to your own kids! You need to get this woman out of your lives, your kids do NOT deserve this.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Where do I begin... 

1. She's 28. Her brain isn't even fully developed yet. Not saying that in an insulting way, it's physiology.

2. You put her on a pedestal long before the kids came on full time. That was your mistake and give her the foot in the door she needed to carry on her very self-serving behavior. 

Where others are seeing her as not providing for your girls, I see it from a different angle. It's ALL about her and the rules don't apply to her, but to everyone else, because she designed them...with her convenience in mind! 

3. Considering you are ex military (and thank you for your service) I have never seen such a man afraid of his own wife. I'd take an introspective look at how, precisely, she threatens your life to such an extent that you will not even put the smack down on her about the mistreatment of your own daughters. 

4. The dishes. They're getting done. Who cares how? Have you actually said to her, "who cares? Daughter is doing it her way. She's old enough to decide how." The last part is key. If you won't advocate for your daughters, no one else will. 

5. Donate some of her less-used clothing/shoes/bags to charity, because you're on-board with her idea of minimizing family expenses and frivolities, beginning with perceived "essentials."Thank her for the great idea. 

6. You're going to slowly lose your daughters' respect, if you haven't lost a huge chunk of it already. They see you under this woman's thumb and it is weak and pathetic. Do you want your girls to have daddy issues? Or, do you want them to see what a healthy, normal relationship looks like? 

7. Regarding the age disparity, I personally have no issue with your choice. My H is 16 years older than me. If I acted like your wife, with his kids, I'd be dropped like a hot potato. And he has adult kids. 

There's a lot more I could write, and without knowing your wife's side, my thoughts are very one-sided. However, only you can decide what you want to do. Your wife sounds like she could very well have a personality disorder, but she could also just be very used to taking control of things. I can't help thinking that the way she treats your daughters is a projection of her feelings toward you. Hint: they're not loving. 

What value does she bring to your life and your daughters' lives? 

I'm going to take a stab and assume that more than her brain attracted you. Youth and beauty does not automatically come with wisdom, humility, and experience. But only you know her to the extent that can tell me if my assumption is way off. 

I didn't see any mention of your sex life. How's that currently?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> I am really thinking of filing for divorce soon, because even when the kids do decide to leave, I don’t see them wanting to come back to be around her, and I don’t even think she would miss them. She’s even said that she wasn’t to kick my eldest daughter out when she’s out of high school (I’m not going to let it happen). I also don’t see her attitude changing once they leave home either and I’ll still be stuck with a very childish spouse.


LMAO. Says the guy who thought it was a *good* idea to date a 21 year old barely out of high school and then marry said child bride barely a year later.

I have a sneaking suspicion you were setting her up to have those kids dumped on her. I believe you *KNEW* or at the *very* least, suspected you'd be getting custody of your kids and _that's_ why you married her so quickly.

I'll give her credit for staying after she heard she was going to be saddled with raising your kids 5 months into her brand new marriage because she should have left your ass without so much as a backward glance. Now don't get me wrong, I sympathize with your poor children, they were dealt a rotten hand. But you're not going to tell me you didn't see this coming down the pike at you or that you didn't marry this poor girl just to have *someone* there to take on your kids because you know that's a lie.

What the hell did you THINK was going to happen when you dumped your young teenage kids on a 22 year old girl who has ZERO life experience, no experience as a mother, and is a newlywed? What the hell did you THINK would happen? Do you expect her to burst into song and fly around the house with an umbrella?



> Even when it came time for back to school shopping, items that were on the list from teachers that were required, she refused to buy them, so I would end up having to go behind her back to get them the items they needed.


Is your old war injury preventing YOUR lazy ass from taking *your* kids back to school shopping? Maybe if you'd actually DONE that the first time around instead of dumping it on your wife, you wouldn't have had to 'sneak' behind her back to get the stuff.

Your wife just sounds like a seething pile of resentment and I can understand why. I'm willing to bet she resents you greatly for stealing her youth from her, because you DID. At 22, she was too naive to know what was good for her and you were a guy in his mid-30's taking full advantage of that fact. But she sounds like the type that doesn't believe in divorce and had to take whatever was thrown at her and that's why she's there to that day - miserable as hell but still there.

I think the best thing you could DO for her is divorce her.


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## AtWitsEnd1 (Dec 1, 2016)

Friday night we went to dinner by ourselves and I brought up some of the things she has done and said that are really bothering me. Mostly about how she talks to and treats the kids. When the dishes issue was brought up, she stated that she just wouldn't have my D/18 do them any longer and she would just do them and that I didn't understand her wanting to be done her way, no other reason, just that she wanted it done her way. She has states before that its her kitchen and she should expect to have it done her way. Another issue I brought up was the way she speaks to me on a regular basis. For example, when I do things to help her, she is very quick to always point out the things I did not do, rather than the things I have done to help her. The only response was her thanking me again for the things I did, but no acknowledgement of her pointing out my flaws. After our long conversation, I even asked her if this was all too much for her and did she regret getting married and did she want out. She said she was not regretful and how could I even ask that. Never once during our conversation though did she seem apologetic for any of her behavior or offer any kind of solution to the situation except for taking more control.

In response to a previous post. I did not know they my kids would be coming to live with me full time. They were living in a fairly nice home with their mother, I talked to them on the phone numerous times per week, I saw them on a regular basis and they seemed to be doing ok, until they weren't.

I did take EleGirl's advice and read the book she suggested and noticed quite a few issues I have with myself. I think therein lies half of the problems. I am constantly allowing myself to place her needs/wants before my own. As soon as a criticism of me arises, I think that I must be the cause of the problem, I don't think about what the other causes may be. I also don't assert myself enough and demand that my feelings and thoughts be heard. I have some serious soul searching to do and need to sort out what needs to be done for me and the girls to make our lives better by satisfying our needs/wants.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> So you married a 22 year old kid when you were 34, divorced, and with 2 kids because?


That's easy. She was smokin' hot, he was middle-aged, she made great arm candy so he could go around saying 'see? I still got it!' And because he also got great, 22-year-old wild and crazy sex. Who cares if she was a selfish beeotch? He was getting what he wanted at the time - his ego stroked.

Now he's paying the price and his KIDS have paid the price. You're aware, right, that living with her has forever altered your daughters' psychological development, for the worse?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> We have done the counseling thing, nothing changed coming out of it. She would tell the counselor that I make her angry when it appears that I don't listen to her needs. I am in a constant state of attempting to fulfill her needs whether they be emotional, physical, you name it, however it never seems to be enough, there's always more, more, more, and she will in no uncertain terms, point out what I didn't do, versus what I have done. Compliments never come out of her mouth, ever. Never a thank you for anything the kids or I do. The counselor even stated that is was her decision on how she felt, no one else's. Every time that was mentioned, we would leave the office and she would call the counselor a quack who didn't know what they were talking about.
> 
> For clarification, we generally will take care of shopping for the kids together. She insists that she wants to go along, even though I know it's just going to cause turmoil. However, if she doesn't go, even if I tell her everything that was bought, show the receipt, there must be something I'm hiding, so there is no trust from her. I can already see how Christmas shopping is going to go. Her parents have completely taken her side on everything with the kids and don't think they deserve anything either, even though she was spoiled as a child growing up.


Can't you even figure out how to say this one simple word: No?

Didn't think so. No wonder your whole family is screwed up. 

Get the book No More Mr Nice Guy. Read it TONIGHT. This whole thing is your fault. It's not her fault she's a spoiled princess.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> I am really thinking of filing for divorce soon, because even when the kids do decide to leave, I don’t see them wanting to come back to be around her


You are correct, sir. My dad married your wife when I was 15. Before the ink was dry on their certificate, he called me up and told me that, now that I had a drivers' license, he would no longer becoming to visit me, I could go see HIM. Yeah, no thanks. I didn't see my dad again for 15 years, not until I had a baby and needed his help watching her. 

If that b&tch hadn't been in his life, we would have had a WONDERFUL relationship. He would have been in his granddaughter's life til the day he died. 

Instead, when my daughter was about 8, I had to cut him (her) out of our lives because his wife did something SO horrendous that I simply couldn't allow them to be near her anymore. All because he was a wimp like you and could never say no to her. EVERYbody hated her guts and avoided the both of them at all costs. All because he wouldn't get rid of her. 

On his deathbed, he told me that he knew all along that we all hated her guts, but he was a weak man and 'needed' a woman taking care of him, and at the time, that was more important than his family and kids. He apologized. Too late, dad.

Don't be that man. You can do better. And it's not too late to save your relationship with your daughters. But I promise you, if you don't divorce this poor excuse for a woman, you will lose your daughters.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> That's easy. She was smokin' hot, he was middle-aged, she made great arm candy so he could go around saying 'see? I still got it!' And because he also got great, 22-year-old wild and crazy sex. Who cares if she was a selfish beeotch? He was getting what he wanted at the time - his ego stroked.
> 
> Now he's paying the price and his KIDS have paid the price. You're aware, right, that living with her has forever altered your daughters' psychological development, for the worse?


True, but I don't know that she's necessary a selfish beotch.

She was an immature kid that he married with the full intention of dumping his kids on her. Maybe she thought she could handle it and then realized she couldn't. Maybe she didn't realize she'd have them full time. 

Of course she should've known that was a possibility, but she was young and stupid. We've all been there. 

HE should've known better.

She's not handling it great now, but the onus was on him as the adult and the parent to consider what kind of partner and step she'd make, just like your dad should've considered whether the woman in his life would be good to you. 

She may have been nasty, but you dad decided she was worth basically abandoning you. Not cool. 

He robbed her 20's so he could get an ego boost, get his rocks off, and have someone to dump his kids on. He got all of the benefits. 

What did she get?

He'd be doing her and his kids a favor to file. She's still young enough to find a comparably aged guy without his baggage and he can find an adult willing to help parent his kids.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> When she comes home, I have no idea what her attitude is going to be when she walks through the door.


Wit, the two most common causes of strong mood changes are a severe _hormone change_ and _drug abuse_. Yet, given that your W is only 28 and not pregnant, a strong hormone change seems unlikely. Moreover, you mention no drug abuse problem. Hence, if you can rule those two causes out, the two remaining common causes of strong, persistent moodiness are _BPD_ (Borderline Personality Disorder) and _bipolar_ disorder.

Significantly, the behavioral symptoms you describe here are not characteristic of bipolar. I therefore agree with @*Satya* that your W _"could very well have a personality disorder" -- _or strong traits of one.



> *She acts like a little kid* throwing a fit when she doesn’t get her way.


If your W really is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent BPD traits), her emotional development likely is frozen at the level of a four year old. I mention this because the behaviors you describe -- i.e., the temper tantrums, controlling actions, verbal abuse, intolerance of a change in plans, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD.

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it. I also caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. 

They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums. Indeed, after living with her for six years, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to be unable to spot strong occurrences of BPD behaviors.



> When she is in a good mood, they evening can go great, everyone gets along, has fun, etc.


If she is a BPDer, that good behavior is to be expected much of the time. A BPDer's problem is not being "bad" but, rather, being "unstable." Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.



> When she is in a bad mood, it feels like the 3 of us have to apologize for everything, hell, even if we breath wrong.


That avoidance of saying or doing some minor thing that will trigger your W's anger is called _walking on eggshells_. This enabling behavior is common among the family members living with a BPDer. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._



> I know the old saying, “if momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy.”


Here's another saying that also may be relevant: "Trying to make a BPDer happy with your gifts, self-sacrifices, and love is as futile as trying to fill the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun." A BPDer has such a powerful feeling of shame and emptiness on the inside that it constitutes a bottomless pit of neediness.



> I am in a constant state of attempting to fulfill her needs whether they be emotional, physical, you name it, however it never seems to be enough, there's always more, more, more...


Like I said, it's like trying to fill a bottomless pit with a squirt gun. If she is a BPDer, her perception of reality is dictated by the intense feeling she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. This means that it is impossible to build up a store of appreciation and good will that you can later draw on during the rough times. Instead, during those hard times, you will always be confronted with "What have you done for me lately?"



> Things started going downhill fast when we gained full custody of them.


 That occurred 5 months into your marriage. I mention this because, if your W really is a BPDer, I'm surprised you got that far past the honeymoon before her dark side started to show. During the courtship period, a BPDer's infatuation over you convinces her that you're the nearly perfect man who has arrived to save her from unhappiness.

In that way, the infatuation holds a BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at bay. She is convinced you pose no threat. Hence, the two fears return only when the infatuation starts to evaporate, which usually occurs 4 to 6 months into the R/S but can last up to two years with some people.



> She will not allow them to go to bed any earlier than 10:00. She has the same issues with me, if I happen to be tired and fall asleep on the couch while watching TV, all hell breaks loose.


BPDers are very controlling of family member actions because their two great fears lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that you will trigger her abandonment fear when moving too far away and will trigger her engulfment fear when drawing too close. The BPDer therefore is frequently adjusting your distance by creating senseless arguments to push you away a little farther -- or love bombing you to pull you back closer.

Hence, if your W is a BPDer, you've spent the past six years hunting for that midpoints position -- between "not too far" and "not too close" -- where you can avoid triggering both fears. I am sorry to report that such a Goldilocks position simply does not exist. I know only because I wasted 15 years hunting for it with my BPDer exW.



> We make a decent living and can afford some luxuries, however in her eyes, the kids don’t deserve any of it. Even when it came time for back to school shopping, items that were on the list from teachers that were required, she refused to buy them.


This consistently selfish behavior is a symptom of narcissism, not BPD. I mention this because a third of females exhibiting full-blown BPD also exhibit full-blown NPD (Narcissistic PD). See Table 3 at *2008 Study in JCP*.



> The next morning though, she was in a full on rage about not going.... and she will occasionally get angry stating she had other plans to make something else....


If she is a BPDer, that reaction to a change of plans (actual or imagined) is to be expected. BPDers have such an intense fear of abandonment that it is easily triggered by minor events such as your returning home an hour late or an unexpected change of plans. Psychologist *Paul Hannig* explains that _"Intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger are experienced when [BPDers] are faced with separation or even an unavoidable change of plans."_ Similarly, *BPDTreatment* states, _"even a sudden change of plans... can make them feel abandoned and cause an extreme reaction._"



> Compliments never come out of her mouth, ever. Never a thank you for anything the kids or I do.


If she is a BPDer, she has a fragile, unstable sense of who she really is. To the extent she has ANY lasting sense of self identity, it is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Because this is the closest thing to a self identity that a BPDer has, she will hold onto to it with a death grip. This means she will seek frequent "validation" that she indeed is a poor little victim. 

The result is that there are only two roles you're allowed to play if you want her to remain in the marriage. One role, which you played during the courtship, is to be "The Rescuer." Obviously, as long as you were trying hard to rescue her, she must have been "the victim" you were trying to save. Never mind that, every time you pulled her from the raging seas, she would jump right back into the water as soon as you turned your head.

The other role is that of "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune. Ironically, even though you're being blamed for every mistake and mishap, you are still very valuable to a BPDer because you're supporting and "validating" her false self image of being "The Victim." That's a valuable service to a person having a fragile self identity. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!_



> She’s even said that she wants to kick my eldest daughter out when she’s out of high school (I’m not going to let it happen).


BPDers have such a great fear of abandonment that it is common for them to be jealous of time the partner spends with his friends and family members -- including his own children. My BPDer exW, for example, absolutely hated my adult foster son and she resented time that I spent on vacation with my out-of-state sister and her family.



> We have done the counseling thing, nothing changed coming out of it.


If your W is a BPDer, MC likely would be a total waste of time until she has first had several years of intensive therapy to acquire the missing emotional skills. Although MCs excel at teaching communication techniques, a BPDer's issues go far beyond a lack of simple communication skills.



> I also don’t see her attitude changing once they leave home either and I’ll still be stuck with a very childish spouse.


Most major cities offer excellent treatment programs (e.g., DBT and CBT) for BPDers. But, sadly, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to remain in therapy long enough to make a real difference. A BPDer needs to learn many basic emotional skills, e.g., how to regulate her own emotions, how to trust others, how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts," how to remain in the present with you instead of escaping into the past and future through daydreams, and how to avoid black-white thinking by tolerating ambiguities and other gray areas of interpersonal relationships.



> I need to sort out what needs to be done for me and the girls.


Wit, given your ambivalence about divorcing your W, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your two daughters are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care,Wit.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> True, but I don't know that she's necessary a selfish beotch.


He already said she was raised spoiled. That's who she is.

Could he have handled this better by being a strong man? Absolutely. That's why I said it was his fault.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> He already said she was raised spoiled. That's who she is.
> 
> Could he have handled this better by being a strong man? Absolutely. That's why I said it was his fault.


That's his opinion.

If only we had her side.....I wonder how different a lot of threads would look if we had the other side. 

But spoiled or not she was a very young adult and likely in no position to assume his kids. 

I've been banned for saying that men who think with their d!ck get what's coming to them, so I won't say it here.

Then again, I suppose I just did 

Kind of like women who marry for money earning every penny.

In any case it looks like OP hasn't been back, so let's see if he responds to anything.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I'll give her credit for staying after she heard she was going to be saddled with raising your kids 5 months into her brand new marriage because she should have left your ass without so much as a backward glance. Now don't get me wrong, I sympathize with your poor children, they were dealt a rotten hand.
> 
> What the hell did you THINK was going to happen when you dumped your young teenage kids on a 22 year old girl who has ZERO life experience, no experience as a mother, and is a newlywed? What the hell did you THINK would happen? Do you expect her to burst into song and fly around the house with an umbrella?
> 
> ...


I agree with this - to a point. Expecting a 22 year old to become a stepmother to an 11 year old is misguided, at best.

But that doesn't make up for the way this has turned out. Either of them could have gotten help along the way.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> All of this isn’t only directed at the kids, a lot gets directed at me as well. She acts like a little kid throwing a fit when she doesn’t get her way. I just retired from the military after 20 years a few months ago. She told me the night before the event at about 11:00pm that she wanted to go the Veterans Day parade in town the next day at 8:00am. I wasn’t planning on going since we had been so busy lately. I informed her about my feelings and it seemed to me that she agreed. The next morning though, she was in a full on rage about not going. On days I decide to make dinner, she will occasionally get angry stating she had other plans to make something else, however she never told me. Yesterday, I came home a little early since I had an appointment that went shorter than I expected. When I got home, I decided to play my video game for about an hour before the kids got there. When she got home I told her about my day and she gets angry again for me “wasting my time playing that stupid game”. (Yesterday was the first time in months I had been on it). She is constantly demanding things to be done on her schedule, no one else’s. When I put the holiday decorations out last weekend, I took a small break between doing the inside of the house and outside the house (needless to say, she didn’t help me with either). While I was taking a break, she gets angry again (surprise) saying I was wasting too much time and the get it done (everything was done it 1 day).


Yes I hate it when my slaves slack off and fail to read my mind too.

What do you expect from a dependo...
(your position is way-t-f-out, not in -her- house. you're supposed to appear being a proud soldier person, not moping around the house, not making bene's)
[ps: a lot of civvie retiree's get treated similarly]


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## AtWitsEnd1 (Dec 1, 2016)

I have been reading all of the posts. Sorry it takes me a little while to collect my thoughts and return a coherent response. I understand my shortcomings in all of this, especially after having read the book that was suggested on here by multiple persons. 

As I stated earlier, we have been to counseling, her and I together, and her and I separately. Her constant complaint was that I didn't listen to her enough and to meet her needs. The related issue she had with my supposed not listening involved decision making with the kids. She wanted them punished for some things that I thought were completely moronic and I would not support it. A prime example was when my D/18 would read (she loves reading, I and I love the fact that she does, buy the wife doesn't) for most of the evening and not spend time doing what the rest of us were doing like watching TV. Now she (D/18) should be punished and lose and lose access to her books. In her mind, I am now the bad guy for not agreeing with what she wants and can't see how her way of thinking is right and I am apparently wrong. I would bring these types of concerns up to the counselor and she would become defensive. When we would leave, I would be sent on a guilt trip for calling her out on her flaws and making her out to be the bad guy, (so apparently, according to her, everything that should be brought up to the counselor should be all my fault).

Like I also said earlier, I did not expect everything to drastically change with custody of the kids right after our marriage. I thought everything was running smoothly and the kids were in a good place, until they weren't. I still will not go into details of what was going on with them, but its taken a lot of time and effort, mostly on my part, to get them the help they needed to get past it and get the pieces picked back up.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> I have been reading all of the posts. Sorry it takes me a little while to collect my thoughts and return a coherent response. I understand my shortcomings in all of this, especially after having read the book that was suggested on here by multiple persons.
> 
> As I stated earlier, we have been to counseling, her and I together, and her and I separately. Her constant complaint was that I didn't listen to her enough and to meet her needs. The related issue she had with my supposed not listening involved decision making with the kids. She wanted them punished for some things that I thought were completely moronic and I would not support it. A prime example was when my D/18 would read (she loves reading, I and I love the fact that she does, buy the wife doesn't) for most of the evening and not spend time doing what the rest of us were doing like watching TV. Now she (D/18) should be punished and lose and lose access to her books. In her mind, I am now the bad guy for not agreeing with what she wants and can't see how her way of thinking is right and I am apparently wrong. I would bring these types of concerns up to the counselor and she would become defensive. When we would leave, I would be sent on a guilt trip for calling her out on her flaws and making her out to be the bad guy, (so apparently, according to her, everything that should be brought up to the counselor should be all my fault).
> 
> Like I also said earlier, I did not expect everything to drastically change with custody of the kids right after our marriage. I thought everything was running smoothly and the kids were in a good place, until they weren't. I still will not go into details of what was going on with them, but its taken a lot of time and effort, mostly on my part, to get them the help they needed to get past it and get the pieces picked back up.


This would be an ABSURD thing to punish any kid for! 18 year olds are in their own world, its just how it is, there is no need to punish her for READING! And the whole thing about washing the dishes... unreal. 

Sorry but your wife sounds like a b!tch and she has no clue how to relate to not only your kids, but to YOU as well. She has ZERO respect for you. Your kids have evidently been through something pretty traumatizing, so why are you allowing your wife to treat them in this manner?? Your job as their parent is to protect them. You are not currently doing so. Now granted, your wife did get pretty much blindsided with them coming to live with you full time. But she is going about this ALL WRONG. Your kids are not servants for her, they are not robots that you can program, and they need KINDNESS. She is too young to relate to them on a stepmother level, so she needs to approach them as friends. 

If she was an outstanding wife to you in all other regards, I would encourage you to really work on this...family counseling, etc.... but she isn't Choose the well being of your children and kick her to the curb.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would never stay married to a person who treated my child that way.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

turnera said:


> I would never stay married to a person who treated my child that way.


It was my ex husband's treatment of my daughter that finally prompted me to GTFO. (my 2nd marriage)


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Wow. She is crazy but you are also a huge part of the problem. You are their father and you are the husband, start acting like it. Don't let her run everyone's life. Stand up, grow a set of balls and be firm. This is the problem with passive men, they usually end up with aggressive women and don't have the balls to stand up to them. What are you afraid of? Making her mad? Who cares, it will pass. She doesn't respect you and I wouldn't either. 
Stand up, and lay the law down to her. You should never have to go behind your wife's back EVER. She is not your mommy, stop being afraid to be punished. 
You need to set the new rules to her. My daughter can wash the dishes anyway she likes. Don't correct her. My kids can go to bed when they are tired. We will buy what they need for school and I don't want to hear another word about it. If you have a problem with these new rules than here is the door. 
What do you have to lose? Yea she might get mad at first but she will respect you. And so will your kids. You are already talking about divorce, so you should try this. Some women will push and push and push bc they know their husbands won't stand up to them. Lay the law down, be the man of the house.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I see that the question of why you thought a kid would make a good partner and stepmother hasn't been answered.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Moral of the day: if you use shallow criteria to choose a partner you give up the right to complain when you get a poor partner.


This hit home, thanks for that, LTS!


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## AtWitsEnd1 (Dec 1, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I see that the question of why you thought a kid would make a good partner and stepmother hasn't been answered.


Because I honestly have no idea. I should have seen through all her BS long ago. Thinking back, I had just recently got out of another relationship and my mind wasn't in the right place to begin with. I got comfortable at the time and settled. It's definitely no good excuse. Now we're all paying the price for it and I've got to figure the way out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> Because I honestly have no idea. I should have seen through all her BS long ago. Thinking back, I had just recently got out of another relationship and my mind wasn't in the right place to begin with. I got comfortable at the time and settled. It's definitely no good excuse. Now we're all paying the price for it and I've got to figure the way out.


A quick divorce?


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## AtWitsEnd1 (Dec 1, 2016)

I have actually been putting together a new list of rules and expectations regarding treatment of all family members and play to bring these up to her. I have tried this is the past with results that were anything but agreeable (I don't know how else to put it). Last time she stated that I sabotaged her and that I had "agreed" to the way things were (I guess I had by not doing anything about it). So this will be attempt number 2.

I think what I would like are suggestions based on the following list. Is it going too far or are they reasonable expectations? Thanks.

1.	Kids can go to bed when they are tired, not at a set time, I don’t know any other 17 or 18 year old that has a set bedtime, let alone ANY child that can’t go to bed early if they are tired

2.	That being said, the kids don’t need to be micromanaged. They are 18 and 17, they can and will have some autonomy in the decisions they make. 

3.	Kids will have access to their belongings. Gifts that were given to them are theirs, not ours to let them “borrow” while they are living here. Gifts don’t have conditions attached.

4.	They will be allowed “goof off” time, this includes allowing them computer time to do what they wish. They can visit whichever websites they choose as long as it’s not pornographic or otherwise detrimental.

5.	They will be expected to do their fair share around the house. You and I can come to a consensus on the chores, or I will pick them myself. They will not be told to not do chores because you don’t like “how” they did them.

6.	Everyone has different likes and dislikes, they are no different.

7.	They will be learning to drive a car. I do not plan on being their chauffer once they need to get to college and back. Public transportation is out, the bus doesn’t stop by our house, and its costs even more for a “special” pickup. I am also not going to rely on your parents to be their chauffer either.

8.	When they go to college that will be their priority. If they choose to also get a part time job, so be it. If not, that’s ok too. That way they can focus on school which is more important than working at that time when they don’t need to.

9.	They will be getting cell phones, period. I will purchase them on my own if necessary. I want to be able to reach my children in an event I need to reach them for any matter.

10.	I am glad to help you on things you need help with. However, I will not be doing them all for you. I can’t take all of my time constantly helping you out with things you’ve taken an interest in.

11.	We each need to have our own “me” time. We both need time apart from each other in order to decompress and come back together. I know you don’t understand why other women seem to want to go out without their husbands, but I do. They are having their time away in order to enjoy what they like, and come back to their husbands rejuvenated.

12.	I will be working out on my own. I like having the different weights a gym offers which we don’t have and can’t afford at home. Also since I've retired military, I have full access to a gym that is free and open when I want to use it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> Because I honestly have no idea. I should have seen through all her BS long ago. Thinking back, I had just recently got out of another relationship and my mind wasn't in the right place to begin with. I got comfortable at the time and settled. It's definitely no good excuse. Now we're all paying the price for it and I've got to figure the way out.


Go your separate ways.

She is ill equipped to handle your kids.

Let her find someone her age without all of this baggage, and you find an adult willing to deal with your kids.


But be honest with yourself. How did you settle? You got someone much younger who probably turned you on. Suggesting you settled suggests she got the better deal.

What was really in it for her to marry and older guy with baggage and kids? Unless you're offering a lot of money and stability then nothing. 

Generally the older partner gets the better deal.

I really don't mean to be nasty, I know I can come across like that. 

This match isn't working for either of you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I cannot believe what appears to be basic human rights must be spelled out in a list for her! Can you not see the insanity that the requirement of such a list implies?? 

Jesus...get their drivers licenses, give them their own laptops and phones, and tell her to leave them the hell alone!


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I agree that it's crazy you need to make such a list. But what other choice do you have really. You said you attempted to do this before but it didn't work out. This time you need to be serious. The other alternative is divorce ( or at least a separation). Remember that this is your wife, you need to lay down the law while being respectful and loving at the same time. The problem is, your wife micro manages your kids, and now your going to micro manage your wife? You need to talk to her and come to an agreement together. She may not agree with some of your decisions but she should respect you and therefore go along with it.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> Jesus...get their drivers licenses, give them their own laptops and phones, and tell her to leave them the hell alone!



Please not the top of the line cell phones! They don't need smart phones IMO. And every kid should have a job, even if it's part time, a summer job or whatever they need to learn the value of a dollar and hard work!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Geez, they can have smart phones, they arent third graders! They should have GPS since they will be driving. I agree that they should work, but we arent aware of their previous situation, either. There may be a reason he isnt going to push about jobs right now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

AtWitsEnd1 said:


> I have actually been putting together a new list of rules and expectations regarding treatment of all family members and play to bring these up to her. I have tried this is the past with results that were anything but agreeable (I don't know how else to put it). Last time she stated that I sabotaged her and that I had "agreed" to the way things were (I guess I had by not doing anything about it). So this will be attempt number 2.


The list is reasonable.

The issue is HOW you present this. You haven't read NMMNG yet, have you? Read it today. BEFORE you give her the list.

What you say is 'these are basic needs of people and I won't allow the kids to do without these basic needs anymore. If you don't like it or understand it, I understand, as I did a poor job of leading this family until now. But things have to change. So things are going to be this way. If that's too hard for you to deal with, I'll understand, and I can't keep you here, and you're free to go your own way. I hope you'll stay.'

btw, he said they won't be working in college, not now.

OP, fwiw, my DD and I had to drag my H to therapy for him to hear from the therapist that it was abnormal for a 17 year old to not be allowed to go to the mall without a parent. He had to hear it from a professional before he would change. And she did a really good job of explaining it to him without him feeling under fire.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Remind your wife that the 18 year old is legally an adult and needs to be treated as such. The 17 year old could make your wife's life a living hell if she so chose and your wife couldn't do a thing about it. And, this is 2016 - get a damn dishwasher.

P.S. Don't have a child with this woman.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

This list is going to be read with the assumption that she has enough respect for you to a.) entertain it and b.) implement it. 

I think that right now you're severely lacking in the respected department. Maybe work on that slowly first before employing the blitzkrieg maneuver.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

His kids don't have that long. That's why it's time to just say 'I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do; you don't have to go along with it, but it WILL happen.'


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