# Abused or not?



## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

When I first started fooling around with my girlfriend who is now my wife it all started out tame enough, with me fondling her tits and putting my hand down the front of her jeans. One night she caved into my simple demand of holding and fondling my erect penis with her hand. She didn't give me a hand job and acted as if feeling my member was a disgusting act. I had to masteurbate myself into the toilet to finish and if I remember correctly at the time she was reluctant to watch. 
Now it was my belief at the time that I was her first boyfriend, although now I am not so sure, but I boasted by saying something along the lines: 'I bet that's the biggest penis that you have ever handled!' To which she responded 'I have handled bigger.' I asked her whose penis she had handled and she replied 'My Grandfathers'. Her Grandfather was dead at this time and my wife would have been about 15 when he passed away. She was still living in her Grandparent's house with her mother and sisters at this point. Her father was an alcoholic and was living elsewhere at the time. I don't think I ever met her Grandfather but her father seemed okay. Anyway it struck me after a bit exactly what she had said and I thought that perhaps as a girl she might have helped her mother or Grandmother bathe her Grandfather if he had been very ill. So I corrected her by saying 'You mean you have seen a bigger penis not handled one'. She responded by saying 'No I've handled bigger.' I am not known for being very subtle with words and I might have pushed the subject a bit too much at the time. She then clammed shut and tight about the subject. I went home shocked that night convinced that she was abused.

To this day I cannot determine if she was abused or not. Nor do I know the form of abuse. My imagination says it was along the lines of hand jobs and blowjobs as these would leave no marks but I really just don't know. Could it have been a one off innocent thing? She will do almost anything to avoid confict so I wonder has she buried this to spare her mother's feelings. He was her mother's father. She really loves her mother but grew up as a Daddy's girl. My wife was sent to drag him home from drinking at night. Her father has since died as well. I have never brought this subject up in conversation with her mother. I have always been stong with her mother and will not let her overstep the mark. My wife is quite unlike her two sisters who have gone through boyfriends, lovers and husbands like a hot knife through butter. Both her mother and father found lovers when they seperated. So why is my wife so 'backwards' or not as upfront about sex? Or is it just me?

Our sex life has never been good. She has to psych herself up to do certain acts and then can never abandon herself in the moment. Our children often ask her if I was her first boyfriend and she uses evasive answers like 'maybe'. I don't know if she is just teasing me about the boyfriends but tells me that between about 8 years old to about 15 she did hang in mixed groups of cousins and friends that played kiss and hide chasing games. My natural inclination is to believe that something small happened then but nothing like handling a bigger penis.

I hope this year to try going to counseling with her but I am also terrified that I might be stirring up a hornets nest. What are the possible reasons for a woman to even say something like this?

Thank you for taking the time to read this.


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## MEM7 (Jan 2, 2012)

Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you.
This could take years, if not forever, to fix.

Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

"Could it have been a one off innocent thing? "

There is no one-off-innocent-thing between a grandfather and his grand daughter. Where does such a tought come from? It does sound like he sexually abused her. If he abused her, he probably abused her mother and her sisters. Child abusers ususally do not just select one child to abuse.

Other than the issue about her grandfather, why does it bother you whether or not she was involved with anyone before you?


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

EleGirl my wife told me that I was her first boyfriend and I never dis-believed this or really questioned this before. She was a very shy woman and not very assertive back then. For me the matter of having a previous boyfriend or not comes down to levels of trust and honesty. She says she did not have a boyfriend and I want to believe she is an honest person who is trying her best but if she is now changing her tune about this issue are there other serious issues she has hidden from me? I would find it mildly amusing to find out now who her first boyfriend was - if any - but if there was abuse involved it would shake me to the core. A few years ago when I tried to raise the abuse issue she denied it but I still wonder is this an act of suppression (is that the correct term?) 

I suppose now that our marriage has become difficult I am going through every little detail in my head. Back then I thought because her Grandfather was dead 'what good would dragging up the past do?' Now I could be paying the price for not acting before this. I am reading as much relationship/marriage material as I can to see can I resolve some of my issues firstly and then work on issues together. Of late my wife has admitted to never having confidence in herself, she has let her appearance and dress sense go down hill. I mean to the point were I would have to beg her to spend money/use our joint credit card to buy shoes as the other pair was cracked and leaking. I spent money getting her teeth fixed but she never took care of them they are now worse than ever. She is afraid to go to the dentist - she would rather suffer tooth ache than go. I wonder where the line between free will and sometimes 'acting cruel to be kind' lies? I cannot get her to go on a date with me - she uses the children as an excuse every time. She apologies for everything to me. It is all 'sorry for this and sorry for that' when she has done no wrong. I tell her not to say sorry as she has done no wrong. But on my bad side if she does do something which I think is wrong I will tend to shout the whole house down. I often have to live as a hermit to avoid getting angry. For days I will not read or watch the news or look at newspapers/news feeds. Certain TV shows have to be turned off when I am in the room. It is extreme but it works!

In terms of '' Could it have been a one off innocent thing? " I once witnessed my daughter who was about 2 1/2 or 3 years old grab out of curiosity the penis of her autistic brother (he was about 9) when he came into the room naked after a bath. Beyond a situation like this I can think of no other.


Iwant2bhappy, I hope all is well with you and you have come to terms with an issue of this sort. It is brave of you to reply and speak up. Thank you for the support.

MEM7 I will do my best to work through this - even if it does take years.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

What matters is your relationship. Does she bring what you need?

My guess is yes she was abused. It is up to her to decide to deal with it or not.

Trust is everything. I understand your unease if you think she has lied about either the abuse or not being a virgin. That is the real issue imho, not whether abuse happened.

If she was abused she needs good competent therapy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

In all truth my needs are not being met. I am uncomfortable talking about certain things with her. I feel that she acts child like and has not grown up over the years. If I bring some sexual issues up (for example if I read about a new sexual craze and tried to mention it she would look at me like I had three heads! I'm not even asking for it - just talking about an issue) and she is likely to storm out or give me the cold shoulder for a few days. Or she hates me making noise during sex - the neighbours might hear - type of thing. But - *a big but* -because I cannot figure this one out - after sex she would walk naked in front of an uncurtained window and not worry if a neighbour would see her, she also might pull open a curtain while topless. In this aspect I am lost and don't understand her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

lonesomegra said:


> In all truth my needs are not being met. I am uncomfortable talking about certain things with her. I feel that she acts child like and has not grown up over the years. If I bring some sexual issues up (for example if I read about a new sexual craze and tried to mention it she would look at me like I had three heads! I'm not even asking for it - just talking about an issue) and she is likely to storm out or give me the cold shoulder for a few days. Or she hates me making noise during sex - the neighbours might hear - type of thing. But - *a big but* -because I cannot figure this one out - after sex she would walk naked in front of an uncurtained window and not worry if a neighbour would see her, she also might pull open a curtain while topless. In this aspect I am lost and don't understand her.


There's no way to diagnose your wife. Even if you ask her point blank about abuse or assault she will likely not answer truthfully if she was abused/assaulted. I am no expert, just the husband of an abuse survivor who has done some reading.

So, with that disclaimer, her behavior _could be_ consistent with an abuse/assault history. What happens is the woman finds sex within a committed relationship to be difficult and scary. Frequently she can be sexual in a more casual relationship because there is no deep emotional intimacy. And if her abuse/assault was by a family member there is the added complication that once you get married to her you are now family.

So she feels embarrassed, shameful, and maybe frightened about sex with you. She can get through it if it is in a safe environment. i.e. she can get psyched up for it. For example she may need for it to be in the dark only, or it has to be pre-scheduled. Maybe she needs some alcohol. Maybe it must not be in a particular room. If you bring up sex in any way in a discussion outside of the boundaries she has put sex into, she gets very nervous and maybe unable to cope with the topic.

For example, my wife has compartmentalized sex as being Saturday night at 10pm. If I approach her any other time spontaneously, she gets agitated and refuses. So that is her compartment for sex. If I send her a sexy text or make some kind of suggestive remark, she gets all flustered. It is outside of the compartment of Saturday 10pm.

So your wife may be having that same reaction.

As to the exhibitionism, yeah that can happen too. Some abuse/assault survivors like the control they can exert with sex. They don't feel control in their marriage sex (a psychological thing), but they can feel control in non-marital sex. And they may like the risk of having the window open or the curtain open. My wife has always liked risky location sex. Not in the hotel lobby, but things like windows open or in the back room at a party without the door locked.

I don't know if she _wants_ to get caught. Some kind of weird psych thing going back to wishing someone had caught her abuser? Or is it the adrenaline rush which she can't normally experience with sex, so she needs to up the excitement factor artificially? Dunno, but my wife is a lot like yours with not having any apparent sense that someone could look in the window.

Your wife obviously is aware that people may hear or see something. She says that during sex. Yet she forgets when undressed? Not likely.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Thor your post has given me huge food for thought. I have worked myself to the bone at times because I read articles stating this was a way to make a woman happy - to follow through on plans and the 'difficult things'. Over the years there has been little or no appreciation for the typical 'love gestures' - I can buy her flowers, chocolates, jewels, give her sums of money but it has no affect. If she has been dealing with a problem all this time then these things might not even register. I am not going to paint myself here as an angel - it can take me 5-10 years to finish some jobs - but they do get done in the end. As for the 'out of context' sex - I have to plead to get that and sending sexy emails or buying her sexy undies is fast becoming a no-no.

Just to be clear I should also say that any spontaneous sex is out of the question. For over a year I have been sleeping in another room due to my medical sleep condition. There can be no reason she is not sleeping soundly each night as I never disturb her so 'too tired' should not be one of her excuses - but she used it tonight. 
I asked for sex and she point blank refused me. I had to hold her still to get her to tell me why and then I had constantly ask her to look me in the eye when speaking to me. After a firm line of questioning she revealed that she was 'afraid to have sex with me, that I make demands on her that she can't fulfill, that sex disgusts her now and that she feels I will get angry and frustrated during sex.'

Okay I asked for her honesty and got some. There are things I do during sex that the wife does not like - I like to talk dirty and I will ask for oral and anal. I pointed out to her I have never ever forced her to do anything she didn't want to do. She has never given me oral to completion before and she does not really like anal but will let me in sometimes to 'make me happy'. I want to try so many more things with her but asking is a nightmare. I seldom get 'love-making sessions' only cold sex. She wants me to finish any way I can so she can go about her business or go to bed. For the record I am open to giving her oral - she hates this- and if she wants to 'peg me' she is more than welcome  ! 

I told her that we really need to take our marriage seriously and that I will need to work on my issues (it seems my anger is a big thing) but she will need help with her issues too. I said that I felt broken at this stage - meaning that I can no longer put up with things as they are - and we need help. Now I am lost as to where to start looking for the best help - I know some of the people who provide services locally in this regard but I know my wife would not like to admit to them that there was a problem, so I may have to look further afield.


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## Debbie Roxs (Dec 30, 2011)

Clergy no probably not. Do you have insurance? A sex counselor could help, after all they have heard of everything. If no insurance call local public health agencies.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lonesomegra said:


> Thor your post has given me huge food for thought. I have worked myself to the bone at times because I read articles stating this was a way to make a woman happy - to follow through on plans and the 'difficult things'. Over the years there has been little or no appreciation for the typical 'love gestures' - I can buy her flowers, chocolates, jewels, give her sums of money but it has no affect.


Not sure why a woman would not appreciate the gifts. I can see if there were ‘strings attached’, but certainly not all gifts would be that way. What I mean by strings attached is that you bought them to appease her for something you did. Or you bought them as an exchange, such as “here’s some jewelry.. now you owe me sex”.


lonesomegra said:


> If she has been dealing with a problem all this time then these things might not even register. I am not going to paint myself here as an angel - it can take me 5-10 years to finish some jobs - but they do get done in the end.


Now this is, IMHO, completely unacceptable. My husband does that. He started a landscape and deck building project in our back yard. Five years later about 1/3 was done. The yard was a mess and much of it unsafe. I finally hired a contractor to finish part of it. Cost me a pretty penny. Then the rest of it sat for another 5 years. I just gave up, quit using the yard ever. And left the mess when we moved out. 
He still does things like that, starts them and then does not finish. The list is very long so I won’t go into it all right now.
I don’t know what projects you are taking 5-10 years t finish. But I do know that it can be very uncomfortable and embarrassing to live in a half-finished place for years.


lonesomegra said:


> As for the 'out of context' sex - I have to plead to get that and sending sexy emails or buying her sexy undies is fast becoming a no-no.
> Just to be clear I should also say that any spontaneous sex is out of the question. For over a year I have been sleeping in another room due to my medical sleep condition. There can be no reason she is not sleeping soundly each night as I never disturb her so 'too tired' should not be one of her excuses - but she used it tonight.


Not sleeping with your wife can cause a huge rift between the two of you. It cuts out a lot of the non-sexual touch such as snuggling that a couple can have while falling asleep. The less non-sexual touch you have between you, the more your wife will pull away from you. Only being touched for sex is a huge libido killer for women.



lonesomegra said:


> I asked for sex and she point blank refused me. I had to hold her still to get her to tell me why and then I had constantly ask her to look me in the eye when speaking to me. After a firm line of questioning she revealed that she was 'afraid to have sex with me, that I make demands on her that she can't fulfill, that sex disgusts her now and that she feels I will get angry and frustrated during sex.'


Well, she has the right to point blank refuse sex. You say you had to hold her still? So you grabbed her and forcefully held her to make her tell you? Um… that’s a deal killer right there. I’d be concerned about having a sexual relationship with someone who did that with me.


lonesomegra said:


> Okay I asked for her honesty and got some. There are things I do during sex that the wife does not like - I like to talk dirty and I will ask for oral and anal. I pointed out to her I have never ever forced her to do anything she didn't want to do. She has never given me oral to completion before and she does not really like anal but will let me in sometimes to 'make me happy'. I want to try so many more things with her but asking is a nightmare. I seldom get 'love-making sessions' only cold sex. She wants me to finish any way I can so she can go about her business or go to bed. For the record I am open to giving her oral - she hates this- and if she wants to 'peg me' she is more than welcome  !


Well she was very clear. She does not like some of the things you do. But you keep doing them. She feels pressured by that. She probably feels unloved and cared for because you pressure her. It’s unfortunate that she does not like oral sex. I can understand her dislike for anal.. I’m not sure when men started to think that anal sex is something that they have to have or their wife was somehow not sexy enough. I don’t know what all the other things are that you want to try, but you need to accept that you married a very sexually conservative woman.

When you have sex with her, how much foreplay is there? How much just playing, laughing, etc?

When women get cold sexually, it usually means that they are not happy in their relationship. It would help a lot if she would tell you exactly what she needs from you. But it does sound like she does not know how to express it or she’s afraid to tell you.


lonesomegra said:


> I told her that we really need to take our marriage seriously and that I will need to work on my issues (it seems my anger is a big thing) but she will need help with her issues too. I said that I felt broken at this stage - meaning that I can no longer put up with things as they are - and we need help. Now I am lost as to where to start looking for the best help - I know some of the people who provide services locally in this regard but I know my wife would not like to admit to them that there was a problem, so I may have to look further afield.


Anger can be a huge problem... it can turn a person dealing with an angry person very cold.

If your wife will not go to MC with you, go yourself to individual counseling. If you change yourself, she will have to change.

I also suggest that you read the books in my signature block under building a passionate marriage and that you and your wife do the exercises that they suggest.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

lonesome, your wife needs good therapy from a qualified person with experience dealing with sex abuse survivors.

I suggest you check out aftersilence.org/forum. There is a sub forum for secondary survivors, which is what you are. It at least helps to know you aren't alone or unusual in your predicament. You can learn a lot about what your wife is going through and you can get some good input from a variety of people there.

The only book I know of which is specifically written for secondaries is "Haunted Marriage". It is worth reading.

Your wife can get closer to a normal sexuality, but it will take hard work on her part, and probably will be measured in years not months. Has she revealed to you that some kind of abuse or assault happened? Have you discussed marriage therapy with her? My wife was dead set against marriage therapy because she was frightened of the abuse issue being brought up. You may run into the same kind of fear in your wife.

One thing to consider is that the abuse survivor cannot logically separate the abuse event from the fallout. In other words, if you complain about her difficulties with sex, she may hear it as blaming her for the abuse. Or she may see it as threatening to her self image because she already feels great shame. So acknowledging that the psychological side effects are causing problems is very difficult because that then is linked to the abuse.

You need to concentrate on the relationship side of it, not the abuse or psychological fallout. Your emotional needs are not being met. Your sexual needs are not being met. You desire joy and intimacy through sharing sex with her.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have to respond to this - making her do things that are not what she wants. This is the worse thing you could do even if she had a strong ego. 

I think a woman with a strong ego and no abuse background would not have allowed you to penetrate her anus against her will. She becomes passive and compliant but suffered for it. She is still suffering.

Unfortunately for your wife, her background makes her vulnerable to thinking that she has no right to control access to her body or it's use by another.

Creating a safe accepting environment is essential to sustaining a sexual relationship. If sex is skewed to meeting your needs how can you expect her to desire sex with you? 

Would you have sex if she were the only one having pleasure? Would you do acts that you disliked just to give her pleasure. 

You say that you assumed she wanted to do theses things. But be honest, you know that that is not true. But is it more that you are able to close your mind to her discomfort as long as you get pleasure? 

Thats what happened with the touching the penis thing right? You were able to coerce her to give you pleasure while you could see her dislike. 

Your sexual needs - sounds like you are having physical sex to meet your needs without regard to your wife's needs. If you were having intimate loving mutually enjoyable sex, you could bring her out of her shell.

My advice, even if she will not go to therapy then you should go. I really think you are the one who is overlooking very big issues that you need to work on. Forcing her to look at you is like an interrogator not a loving husband. 

Sex is not the problem it's the severe dysfunction in your relationship. You point to her as the problem but you're as responsible as she. If you don't see that then things will get worse not better. The accumulation of problems have finally shut her down.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> > It’s unfortunate that she does not like oral sex. I can understand her dislike for anal.. I’m not sure when men started to think that anal sex is something that they have to have or their wife was somehow not sexy enough. I don’t know what all
> > When you have sex with her, how much foreplay is there? How much just playing, laughing, etc?
> 
> 
> ...


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> > Thats what happened with the touching the penis thing right? You were able to coerce her to give you pleasure while you could see her dislike.
> 
> 
> I do not know what you are implying by this statement. I have only ever been allowed by my wife to have sex on her terms. Otherwise I would be a lot more fulfilled by now sexually. Yes there have been times I pushed her to the limit and I may have hurt her but I can only work from the here and now. I forgot, or I felt I was going with my wife's choice that we forget what she said years ago. Now I am only working out that I should not have ignored warning signs.
> ...


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## Flower25 (Jan 9, 2012)

lonesomegra said:


> [
> 
> 
> One technique I have learned when dealing with my autistic son is that eye contact is really important. I employed this whilst talking to my wife. I HELD MY WIFE IN MY ARMS - what is wrong with that? Every husband has some right to that. If I had not held her she would have run away from me - she is strong spirited enough to break away from me if she wants to and I did not hold her in such a way that she could not. My illness which amongst other things involves weakness on one side and an inability to walk or run fast makes it easy for her to physically break away.


I feel that I must comment on this...

Yes - eye contact is very important when speaking with an autistic child because autistic children often have trouble making eye contact and it is a skill that needs to be learned.

OTOH - demanding eye contact "Look at me when I'm speaking to you!" (even if not in those exact words) is a very domineering act. It is not a way to invite communication.

Just my opinion - I think you need to be far more gentle with this woman. The words you use, the things you ask, the noises you make - you may very well be mirroring the abuse she suffered.

Rather than being more demanding - you need to be more inviting. What happens if you give or do something without any strings attached? What happens if you ask permission for things - such as "May I sit next to you and put my arm around you while we watch TV?" instead of assuming some automatic marital right?

I think she needs to learn that you are 'safe'...and that you will always check with her before accidentally straying into something that makes her uncomfortable.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

I am going to do everything to treat Wife as gently and kindly as possible from now on as I fear she could be depressed. I spoke with her today and it seems death is on her mind but she said 'she wouldn't do anything' I hope to get her to see a Doctor as soon as possible. 

Thank you all for your perspectives on this matter and I will update you with any progress that we make in the fullness of time.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Here is my progress update. I persuaded my wife to see a doctor. It took a lot of work and lots of long spells of silence on my part where I carefully considered every single word I uttered for fear of coming across as too controlling. Despite this she let out an angry outburst somewhat along the lines of : 'What do I tell the doctor, that I don't want sex, that I'm angry with my husband for putting me under pressure to have it, angry with myself for not being able to give him what he wants, that I'm disgusted by what he wants, that he is angry, that I have a kid who annoys me so much that I want to kill him. Is that what you want?' I responded by saying this is exactly what she should tell the doctor and it would do no harm to have a physical examination.

An incident happened the day before wife was due to attend doctor's which made me fear she might not go. Our eldest son 14 (not the autistic child) crept into his off limits sister's bedroom, woke her and caused her to cry and become very, very upset. My wife investigated the noises that this intrusion caused and came to me white faced visibly trembling with anger and upset. She requested that I speak to him because she 'no longer could do so.' Basically son denied any major wrong doing but daughter said he hurt her for no reason. We brought son downstairs and gave him a talking to. A number of days later Wife revealed that she was on the verge of walking out over this as son had gotten into a bad habit of disrespecting her and that she could not handle this since he puts on a totally different face around me. The wife had a place ready to go to and planned to leave me taking the two most vulnerable children with her. Her insistence that son had become a bully and lier was confirmed the next day after yet another incident. Suffice to say Wife is relieved that son showed true colours to me. As a result sons will be enrolled in seperate schools next term for safety reasons. 

I neither shouted nor showed anyone in the house disrespect during the above exchanges but my behaviour in the past has not helped anyone. My disruptive son stated he was afraid to tell wife truth in case I found out and got really angry with him. This has been true of me. I have found it incredibly difficult to control my anger and more so with the chronic illness that I have been enduring over the last approximately 4½ years. This is an admission not an excuse on my part.

In regards to attending said doctor's appointment which I arranged, my wife thankfully attended. I however, without wife's knowledge, phoned the doctor prior to her being seen in the surgery. I relayed my fears about sexual abuse and how this might be manifesting itself in its current format via wife's behaviour. I also said to doctor I believed we need Marriage Counseling. Doctor advised me of her oath to patient and anything that happened after our conversation could not be revealed to wife nor could any aspect of her consult with wife be disclosed to me. The doctor provided me with a name of a counseling service that dealt with both marriage and dedicated sexual matters. On return from Doctor wife handed me the number of the same service. I think and hope we are progressing in the right direction. 

The only drawback now is that although we have agreed to ring service we have delayed as I had a minor operation this week that necessitates me covalesce for over a week.

I have taken advice given here and have alowed the wife space in all matters pertaining to touch, kisses, hugs and sex. I am letting it be only on her terms. Wife continues to apologise for not wanting sex and it has been 11 days since anything of a sexual nature has occurred.


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## MEM7 (Jan 2, 2012)

What exactly did your son do to your daughter? It sounds creepy. Did he do something sexual to her? If so you have BIG problems on your hands.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

I believe that my son woke my daughter up, slapped her and 'said horrible things' to her. My daughter will be 7 later this week and my son will turn 15 this year. Since I have some physical problems my ability to 'action play' with my daughter is limited. I cannot run after her nor engage in dancing for long periods. If I try to take part in movement games that involve the Wii console it hurts me. My son has noticed this and thinks he should take on the 'father role' of tickling, chasing and playing games with her. The problem is he becomes too rough and often hurts her and uses the excuse 'we were only playing'. Granted I cannot believe every little thing my daughter complains about as she can play the 'injured maiden' when it suits her but I have been keeping a close eye on my son's behaviour towards her.

A red flag was raised last year when my son casually placed his hand on the bum of our 23 year old home tutor (for the other son) when she was leaving the house. He did not know I noticed but I did note the tutor's reaction and was sure she was going to say something. I think she might have given him the benefit of the doubt as she held her tongue. I read my son the riot act when the tutor left the house. He tried to deny any wrong doing but I was certain in what I saw and made it clear that this type of action and disrespect for any woman is stupid, dangerous and downright disgusting. It seems I still have not managed to get my message across to him.

I even fitted a new lock late last year on the 'girl's room' where my wife and daughter sleep to prevent any unwanted intrusions. 

We are now going to try to reinforce the positive elements of our son's actions and to praise him more rather that getting upset with him and see if this approach works better. This has been the case before when he was younger but he has changed somewhat since attending his current school and his air of bravado is hard for my wife to handle.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

Like Thor, I too am married to a wife who suffered the horrors of childhood sexual abuse. She didn't tell me (or anyone else for that matter) until year 23 of our marriage.

Putting it mildly, her sexual reactions were bizarre. I too read all the material on what to do to be sexually attractive to my wife. To be the kind of man that she would "open up" to sexually/emotionally.

For years my wife avoided sex at almost all costs. When we did "fool around" (no intercourse for 18 years!!!) she was clearly "checked out". It was very frustrating.

If your wife was abused (and it's a pretty safe bet at this point that she was) then she needs professional help--and so do you. You need to know how to handle things correctly. She needs to see behaviors in you that teach her that sex with you is "safe" and that you are not another abuser. MOST CSA victims feel that way--that everybody is out to use them--so they have to maintain control. That can have some VERY different looks to it. They may have a lot of sexual partners and be "great" lovers, only to leave when things get "too close". They may be like my wife and be sexually shut down for the most part. It takes on a LOT of different faces, depending on too many factors to get into here. One HUGE factor is if they told their family, and how they reacted, did they get support, were they blamed as the innocent child (sick I know, but it happens more often than you might think).

Throw most of the "normal" relationship paradigms out the window. With CSA victims, very little about sex or any kind of intimacy that is "normal" or within a range of normal. This is NOT their fault. It's a result of the abuse.

My wife "stalled out" emotionally at age 7 when the abuse began for her. She matured physically into a woman, but emotionally in many, many ways she is still a child and uses child like emotions to try to solve adult problems. It usually doesn't work real well.

You might want to do some reading. "Haunted Marriage" has been mentioned. Also consider reading "Allies In Healing" (written specifically for partners) as well as "Wounded Heart". If you go on Amazon, under search type "Childhood sexual abuse" and a bunch of material will pop up. 

This will take time and real hard work. It's not easy for either one of you. Recognize that you have been wounded too--though not on scale with your wife--none-the-less--you need help dealing with her and what she has done to you. Resentment can be VERY strong in the partner and that can really impede the healing process.

I wish you all the best.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

JustAMan2 I don't think my wife has had as strong a reaction to her experience as your wife has had, but never the less I am in no fashion trying to diminish the hurt factor. At least I have had sex, be it bad or good, and yes it seems I need to change and get help here too. 

I am in the process of ordering a batch of books to read up on this subject although I would suspect the local library has plenty on the subject it is nice to get recommendations from people who have had experiences from my side of things. Thank you in this regard JustAMan2. 

I phoned the Counsiling Service yesterday and their service is departmentalized into categories with the relationship course being separate to the sex therapy. It appears that within our town they have nobody available directly at the moment to deal with the sex aspect as there have been a few recent retirements. They have taken my name and number and have ensured me that they will get back to me with relevant information. If they can't help directly at least they will point me in the right direction. 

My wife expressed extreme embarrassment to me yesterday at having to attend such courses and therapy and I feel it might prove even harder on her to travel outside town to attend. I just hope that when push comes to shove she is able to open up and spreak frankly and honestly about the situation. This is coupled by my fear of the extra hurt either of us will need to go through or re-live.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

The embarrassment your wife feels is quite common among CSA victims. They often times feel the abuse was their fault that somehow they "asked for it", which of course is not true--but it is to them.

It would be wise for her to pursue individual counseling (preferably from a female) and for both of you as a couple to enter into marriage counseling as well.

If your situation is typical, there are several dysfunctional "relationship templates" going on in your marriage. Hers as a result of her CSA, yours as a result of trying to cope with her broken template. You may also have anger and resentment issues that you need to deal with as her spouse.

I'm glad to hear that your wife is willing to consider getting help (and that you are too). That's a very healthy sign.

I wish you all the best.


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## MEM7 (Jan 2, 2012)

lonesomegra said:


> I believe that my son woke my daughter up, slapped her and 'said horrible things' to her. My daughter will be 7 later this week and my son will turn 15 this year.


Besides your wife having problems, it sounds like your son has problems too. Very big ones by the sound of it. Waking up a 7 year old girl, slapping her and verbally abusing her? For what reason? This is very extreme. He sounds like he could be dangerous in the very near future unless this is dealt with.

And the thing with the tutor... sounds like his mind has been corrupted by what he is seeing on the internet. He seems to think that this sort of thing is going to lead to ...(?) I don't know, sex with the tutor?

Anyway, if my 15 year old son did this I would go ballistic. This is completely inappropriate behaviour. It's insane. Unless there was a very good reason for it, but I doubt that. Your daughter is going to be messed up if he continues on acting like that.

Man, you sure have a lot to deal with in your house.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

lonesomegra said:


> My wife expressed extreme embarrassment to me yesterday at having to attend such courses and therapy and I feel it might prove even harder on her to travel outside town to attend. I just hope that when push comes to shove she is able to open up and spreak frankly and honestly about the situation. This is coupled by my fear of the extra hurt either of us will need to go through or re-live.


lonesome, you have gotten a really good bunch of info from JustaMan. I want to add just a few things.

First off, she probably feels a whole lot more than "extreme embarrassment". She may feel terrified, deeply _shamed_, and guilty. Your job is to reassure her that you love her, you want to be married to her, and you want to help and support her. 

I have found that survivors seem to forget that the abuse was something done *to them*. They tend to morph the events in their mind as something done *with them*, and then they start to feel they are in some way co-responsible for this thing they don't understand and which hurts them.

Her abuser probably engaged in some pretty sick mind games. He needed to coerce her in order to abuse her, and then he needed to frighten her to guarantee her silence.

There may be some other factors, too. The abuser may have been a trusted or even loved and admired adult. She may have felt physical pleasure. She may have in her child mind wanted the attention or wanted the touch. Remember, she was a child who had very little ability to understand the context of sex, abusive situations, or mature love.

So your wife is probably very worried about revealing these things to anybody because she feels so hurt, guilty, shameful, and/or dirty.

Your job, again, is to reassure her that you love her and you understand that the abuse was done *to her*. She was not an adult willing participant, so it does not reflect on her character that she was abused.

She probably will feel strongly that she wants to protect you from feeling hurt. So she will not want to tell you much. I don't think she should tell you anything she isn't ready to tell you, so you should not push too hard. But be sure to tell her that you will not be hurt because she tells you. You will feel hurt for her, and for what she has endured. You are being hurt by her abuser, not by her. She needs to know this.

I feel very strongly it is my job as husband to take on hard work and pain. She probably feels she is burdening you. So let her know that you want to be leaned on, not babied.

Don't fear the hurt. It is an important and necessary part of the process. Think of it as the pain after having an arthritic hip replaced. The pain of the surgery healing and the pain of the physical therapy must happen in order to repair the damage. Nobody wants the pain, but you know it is part of the healing process. The other choice is to live with the lesser but constant crippling pain of the untreated problem. It will never get better without that healing pain.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

As my ex was an abuse survivor I learned a thing or two from counselors / therapists I had spoken to over the years as well as my personal observations. I see several good reasons that W needs therapy besides those noted earlier:

1. Having unresolved issues from abuse negatively impacts W's ability to parent effectively. The OP stated that the incident between daughter and son left W shaken and unable to cope; that is a huge red flag (even though her suspicions were proven correct). It seems that:

* W could end the marriage over something H did not do over her being essentially programmed that men are predators?
* W could cause strife by treating the children unfairly. Even though earlier the son clearly was at fault, it could have easily been a situation where daughter was instigating something and W's automatic reaction was "female = victim".
* W is going to have difficulty coping with normal developmental milestones of her children. When daughter grows up, gets a boyfriend, and starts having sex is W going to freak out and/or consider her daughter a ****? Is W going to consider son an abuser when he hits the same milestone?

2. I honestly do not see anything wrong with H expressing his sexual needs to W, although H needs a gentle approach. Those discussions are just that - not abuse. W's responsibilities to H do not diminish because she was abused. To suggest otherwise is to imply that it is ok for H to pay a price for something to which he was not a party for an indefinite time against his will.

3. It is true that abuse survivors feel guilt, shame, and anxiety. It is also true (at least in some situations) that survivors can be dishonest, selfish, and manipulative. Conflict can be seen as adversarial instead of constructive. The survivor can adopt an attitude of "I'm going to get mine first" where the drive for pleasure and satisfaction trumps all else. And, of course, the kids can see this and think this is normal behavior.

4. Just because the W is able to maintain some level of function now does not mean she will be able to in the future. Unless she gets help, H's reality is that some future random trigger (caused by him or otherwise) could cause W to pull back even more or shut down to him altogether. I suspect people (however well-meaning) who say "give her space", "don't disrupt her comfort zone", "be happy with what you get" do not understand how bad it can get. Would we give the same advice if H's situation changed to "she never put in the hard work to get healthy, and now she's completely unable to have sex at all"?

To the OP: is your wife prone to using guilt trips or emotional outbursts to avoid doing something? Does she claim to feel a certain way about something to support her argument then done a 180 and claimed the opposite at a different time? Is she prone to making empty promises or lying about achievements to get someone to do something for her? Just food for thought.

The counselors / therapists I've encountered unanimously (and emphatically) agreed that suffering abuse or neglect as a child does not absolve one of the responsibility to get healing and conduct oneself as a well-adjusted adult.

I took this to heart. My ex tried that "I do not have to <fill in the blank> because I was abused" and "causing me to recall my abuse makes you an abuser" crap - I refused to buy it. She refused to get help so eventually I took the position "I cannot make you get help, but I will hold you accountable for meeting my needs just as you hold me accountable for meeting yours; you do not get a free ride".

To the OP: it is a good sign that your wife is willing to get help. You need to encourage her through the tough times and know that this is likely a long-term endeavor. OTOH, if she chooses to not stick with the program because it is too hard, you might need to consider that the healthiest thing for you and your children is to move on from her.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Here is a further update. On Friday the Marriage Counseling service rang me and provided me with information on an out of town Sex Therapy Service. My wife is willing to go but is afraid of arrangements that will need to be made in case the schools ring us up about our children when out of town. My wife's sister is involved in a messy Divorce that has spilled onto Facebook and my wife is afraid of her family finding out about our problems and adding to the distress they are feeling due to that tit for tat battle.

I will need to get an opinion from the Sex Therapy Service about whether we should get assessed by the MC service first before entering therapy or to go to the Sex Therapy Service directly. The information provided so far has included time scales as to when we can be seen and the times of the sessions. I am hoping that my wife stays on board over the next few weeks while we work out some type of time-table to get us the help we require.

In the meantime to prepare us for the language used in Sex Therapy I have been directed to a website with a presentation. I will look at this either tonight or tomorrow night. I will add a link here afterwards if I feel it has something to offer anyone else on this forum.

DTO and Thor I'm not really sure of being manipulated by guilt trips by my wife or some of the other things that are suggested but I do feel that I am affected by her low sense of self worth and esteem. There is only so many times I can listen to her saying sorry before it will get on my nerves and I ask her to stop. It does not stop however and I don't see it stopping without help. She has mentioned that 'we have nothing in common' like no joint hobbies that we both enjoy together and this will need to addressed. No matter how I prepare myself for what might be said in counseling I do think that there is a bombshell waiting to be dropped and I am dreading this but I am willing to go through pain if it brings healing. I just hope it does not end up hurting my wife too much.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am perplexed, why are you focusing on sex therapy when your family is in serious crisis? They need intervention yesterday. 

They need you to focus on providing leadership, gaining control, setting boundaries and getting everyone help. I cant understand why you feel sex therapy is of primary importance now. 

You have recently identified these problems - 
* your wife's crisis with the family, 
* the pychopathy of the 15 yo, 
* his abuse and bullying of the vulnerable members of your family including your wife, 
* the detrimental effect on everyone involved. 

Moreover, there are preexisting problems; 
* an autistic child, 
* a wife who may have beed sexually abused, 
* your past anger problems, 
* your past disconnection from your family and 
* your chronic illness. 

Your wife has been very clear about priority of these problems, she was ready to walk out to protect her kids. Your kids were clear that your anger prevented them from telling your about very serious problems. 

Putting a lock on the door of a 7 yo and speaking to a seriously disturbed teenager are bandaids. Your wife and child are locked away while the teen has freedom to roam the house. 

Indeed, your family has been saddled with Job-like problems. But I think your priorities are still centered on what you need sexually. It would be more functional to team up with your wife and establish some stability in your family. 

Sex is important but with so many people in pain, would you be able to enjoy sex? I think you need more compassion and empathy at this time. 

This narrow focus on yourself and your needs is unfortunate and seems to have been a problem throughout your marriage.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Catherine602 and Iwant2bhappy I wonder have you ever engaged in any DIY house repairs? Let me elaborate: If a damp patch appears on an internal wall of a house it can damage the plaster work and the paint. Work must be done to repair both the plaster work and paint. All this work is worth nothing if the source of the damp is not found and fixed first. This is what I am attempting to do. I believe sex problems with my wife originate from abuse as a child and this has lowered her self esteem to a level whereby she finds it hard to engage in sex and be willing to stand up to confrontation with her own child. Therefore if this is the source of the problem all other work that patches over and around this will be prove to become defunct. This abuse problem, rather than the sex problem must be addressed first. If this leaves me in a position where I don't have sex for 6 months to a year I am willing to live with this, but it will be worth it if it helps my wife and has a knock-on effect of giving her confidence in her parenting.

Both my wife and I attended parenting courses. I found it easier to stick to the program that she did. I am willing 'to be cruel to be kind'. Sometime during the last few years she has lost focus and is not able to handle certain progressive steps. Sometimes when my boys fight aggressively it scares her. I am more willing to take it as 'a certain amount of character building' and let them sort things out between themselves and only stepping in if I think things are really getting out of hand. I suppose my wife and I differ on what we see as normal behaviour between boys. 

Another example would be when I work, especially with my youngest son, I can be in great humour yet in the course of doing a DIY job still growl, grunt, shout and fire demands at my son yet he knows it is all part of the job and he laughs at it. My wife cannot understand this type of humour and sees it as over-aggression. 

Perhaps my posts make my family seem very fractured but I think the problems can be fixed and it is too easy to make a mountain out of a mole hill.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

The sex abuse will affect every part of your wife's interaction with the world. She may be over protective of the kids because of what happened to her. My wife was unable to let the babies cry at all, for example. She wants to the kids' best friend. etc.

You are correct that the thing to focus on from her side of the equation is healing from the abuse.

Take care of yourself. You'll be on a heck of a roller coaster ride, so be sure to get whatever counseling and support you need.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lonesomegra said:


> Perhaps my posts make my family seem very fractured but I think the problems can be fixed and it is too easy to make a mountain out of a mole hill.


Well, at the end of the day only you can make that call.

I completely sympathize with your predicament, and ordinarily I would agree that you need to combine IC for her with couples therapy to keep her focused on her responsibilities as a wife. I have heard (and think there is some truth to) the concept that women tend to focus on not feeling bad over something, rather than being able to treat others fairly. I've experienced firsthand what happens when healing takes the form of " me being content is by far the priority in my life; meeting my responsibility to you is not".

But, my concern (and that of others here) is that you are simply spreading your family's time and energy too thin to be effective in any pursuits. Your decision seems to imply that your wife's sexual abuse is the root cause of all the family's problems. That ignores the danger sign of your son's behavior, for instance.

I've heard (and believe) that a person can handle only three priorities at any one time. Your family now has:

1. Living daily life (careers, chores, kids homework, etc.)
2. Your son's probable emotional issues and anger outbursts.
3. Your wife's probably sexual abuse.
4. The fallout of your wife's sexual abuse.
5. Whatever else might come along (career problems making it necessary to retrain, any other family crises that may come along).

You really need to make sure you tackle these things in the right order.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

You bet it is. It's her way of telling you. It took me over 13 years to tell my husband. I've told one other person besides him who knows me in real life. It happened when I was about 7 with a neighbor kid. I somehow got over it and healed 100%. I can completely block it out of my memory. My only triggers of the memories are reading posts like this.

My husband is and always has been very patient with me, especially in the sex department. He's never gotten angry ever, or shown it when I've turned him down in the past. However, things are different now, much better. My husband and I are connected on an emotional and physical level. I have 100% trust and transparency with him. I'm sure it's due to his gentle nature.

I would suggest getting your wife help. In the mean time, find out what her needs are and meet them. My husband has always put my needs before his since the day we met. We have an absolutely fabulous marriage and are completely in love with each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

lonesomegra said:


> Catherine602 and Iwant2bhappy I wonder have you ever engaged in any DIY house repairs?
> 
> I believe sex problems with my wife originate from abuse as a child and this has lowered her self esteem to a level whereby she finds it hard to engage in sex and be willing to stand up to confrontation with her own child. Therefore if this is the source of the problem all other work that patches over and around this will be prove to become defunct. This abuse problem, rather than the sex problem must be addressed first. If this leaves me in a position where I don't have sex for 6 months to a year I am willing to live with this, but it will be worth it if it helps my wife and has a knock-on effect of giving her confidence in her parenting.
> 
> ...


It does not matter how you view the kids fighting, or your wife being upset by the aggression between the boys. What should concern you is that she feels these things. 

The problems are - your lack empathy - you have a tendency to minimize the feelings of others and assume your way of looking at the would is the right way. 

You excuse your inappropriate anger and minimize its effect on your family. You are blind to the serious family problems and the effect it has on your children. You don't listen to your wife or take her concerns seriously, you don't get sex. 

Your wife's problems are she is too compliant, has psychological problems due to abuse, she resist therapy to fix it, she has allowed herself to be bullied by her husband, she failed to protect her kids from her husbands anger and protect them from abusing each other, she does not assert herself with the kids, she refuses sex. 

She has managed to duplicate the dynamic of her childhood abuse by allowing her husband to do things sexually that she does not want to do, or are uncomfortable or even painful. 

How can she enter into an intimate sexual relationship with a man who does not accept her or how she feels? You seem unable to see your own problems and to accept that you need help to deal with them. 

I cannot see your need for sex as being connected with love for your wife and a desire for an emotional connection. Otherwise, how can you ignore your wife's needs for an emotional connection and mutuality. 

You may as well divorce and get some women who is willing to enter into a friends with no benefit to her relationship.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

My wife and I are booked to get assessed next week in a centre, out of town, that caters for both Marriage Counseling and Sex Therapy. My wife has said that she is extremely nervous about going and that as we get closer to the day she expects to feel a whole lot more nervous. I am not forcing her to go but I hope if she does manage to get into the centre that it does not 'shut her down' nor make her afraid to face harsh truths. I expect to have to face some difficult truths myself and I hope I'm not too off guard when they come. 

Catherine602 you have raised some interesting points in your last post and it will be interesting to learn my wife's honest opinion in counseling as to whether I take her feelings into account enough or if she regards me in any way as a bully. 

Other contributers to this thread have given me further food for thought and I will need to consider aspects of what they have written once I engage with the professionals.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You are good at dodging any responsibility or need to fix yourself in favor of putting it on the back of your wife or children. 

I think you know that your timid wife will not tell you what you need to hear. Your ability to talk rings around an issue is something she knows only too well. 

You lack insight and you lack the ability to take on the role of a man who is the leader and protector of his family. You are too busy side stepping and seeking sexual satisfaction as primary to all else. 

You are sure those professionals will agree with you about all the problems emanating from your wife's failures. You would not be pursuing this trip if there were nothing in it for you. 

I hope they are perceptive enough to uncover what the real problems are. I hope they reassure your wife that she is not broken. I hope they reassure her that she does not deserve to be treated so dismissively by you. That will do more to put her on the road to recovery than anything else. 

She is reluctant to go because she knows you better that you know yourself. She knows there is nothing in this trip for her it is all about you. She may be meek but she is not delusional.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Catherine602 you are cracking me up here. For a start I believe that if you read carefully through my posts you will find that I have stated that I am broken. I and about 20 doctors have been trying to fix my health up for the last 4½ years. If anyone needs fixing it is me. Besides I am not sending my wife to counseling alone, I will be there with her. It takes two to tango. 

As for knowing about feelings and the effect of feelings I am in no way afraid to express my feelings for my family and take their feelings into account. I do have a way with words especially when my Muse strikes. I am a poet and dramatist with published and broadcasted works. I have read to the public in various regions in Ireland. If you give me permission I will PM you some of my work if you wish to read it. 

My wife is able to match up to me in lots of ways. I taught her to play chess and about 6 games later she is able to beat me every time! I can't beat her at table tennis either. My wife can toss me over as occasionally she demonstrates her martial arts training. 

Dodging responsibility would be to walk away. I find that incredibly hard to do and I sometimes need to be dragged away from challenges. I have knocked walls, built walls, reconstructed rooms, put down and ripped up floors, dug and filled holes to create a family home. But what good is a home without love? I have given great tracts of love to this family and will continue to do so. I fought hard for our first child when my wife's mother asked her to consider an abortion. I stuck by my wife when the child died at birth. My wife stuck by me when my sister was murdered. These acts to stick around are real expressions of love.

As for an ability to lead as a man - that's exactly what I do. You might not agree with some of my 'cave man' approach but I have lasted this far and will continue to so until someone proves me wrong!

Oh Catherine602 these 2 brackets ( ) are my virtual hug to you as it seems you are in need of one. Best wishes.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You are good at dodging any responsibility or need to fix yourself in favor of putting it on the back of your wife or children.
> 
> I think you know that your timid wife will not tell you what you need to hear. Your ability to talk rings around an issue is something she knows only too well.
> 
> ...


I think you are possibly being unnecessarily harsh with the OP :scratchhead:

Similar to what I told CandieGirl, people with personal challenges owe it to their spouses to make a sustained effort to overcome these issues and come to the marriage as healthy (and thus as capable) as possible. This is not a matter of fair vs. unfair. It simply reflects the reality that if I have an issue hurting the marriage I am the only one who can fix it.

It is easy to interpret that you do not necessarily agree with this. You said the OP's wife likely will not attend MC because there is nothing in it for her. Why should be "in it for her"? Why is it insufficient to be a healthier, more capable person able to bring more to the marriage? (That growth, by the way, will bring it's own benefits to her.)

You paint the OP as an overly pushy, insensitive man who values "getting his rocks off" above all else. I agree that he needs to be patient and reprioritize, but I do not feel he should put himself on the back burner indefinitely. You said he should embrace his role as leader and protector. I feel he should take a step back and develop a plan that balances all three roles as huband (leader, protector, AND lover).

From personal experience, I know it is possible for a woman to overemphasize the protector and provider aspects of marriage, just like it is possible for men to overemphasize sex. For example, it is not uncommon for women to claim an entitlement to a certain lifestyle, or to argue that it's appropriate to have their husbands tending to them daily while only having sex once or twice a month. In more extreme cases (like my ex) women will say "I'm the woman and I matter more. You should fulfill me even if you never get what you want".

It is noteworthy that men marry women we feel pass the test of "can I build something with her better than what I can do alone?". We are wired to do and provide and don't expect to just receive. OTOH, women (not all, most, or even many, but moreso than men) can fall into the trap of "what is this other person doing for me" mindset because they expect provision and care (which is fine) to the extent they neglect to do their part in return (which is wrong). Us guys overwhelmingly do not mind doing the heavy lifting, leading the family, and giving before receiving - but in the end we marry wives - not children.

There is another potential scenario where the OP's wife may resist MC: both of them know that a counselor will tell the OP that he needs to learn coping skills and a better way of interacting with his wife. But, the OP's wife knows a counselor will tell her she is the one who must recover from the abuse to be a healthy wife and mother. It's completely plausible that she is daunted by having to relive and process the abuse. It's also possible that she does not perceive enough benefit to merit the effort. The result is she chooses to "sweep it under the rug".


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> I am a survivor and I totally disagree with you. The OP cares only about as you would say "Getting His Rocks Off."
> 
> Your ex seems to have had more issues then just a survivor of sexual abuse...maybe, she didn't get the proper help.
> 
> Maybe if the OP wouldn't have forced her to do things she didn't like, ex. anal, his wife would being more willing to have more enjoyable sex.


You might be right about him just wanting to get off, but I just do not see it that way. It would be really easy for the OP to just walk away, or get some on the side, or detach himself so that he just goes about, cares for the kids, and leaves her to flounder in her (apparent) unhappiness. Yet, he's dedicated to substantial sacrificing in order to promote her healing.

So, while I agree that he is going about this badly (and he screwed up badly by not taking a hard look at this situation when she expressed disgust with a handjob), I think he's worried about more than his jollies. Again, if he really just wants to get off there are much easier ways.

You are certainly correct about my ex having other issues. She refused my offers to get her help. Most notably, she has strong BPD / NPD tendencies. To list a few:

* Instigation of conflict
* Emotional instability / anger outbursts
* Inability to focus on activities not leading to immediate reward
* Inability to accept criticism
* Perception of superiority / elevated sense of self worth
* Sets selfish goals / manipulates to achieve one's goals

Ultimately, this likely did not impact her sexual issues so much as her willingness to fix them. An NPD person is unreachable and (as I found out) not worth the time. I had to detach and create as healthy an environment as I could for myself and my child.

Back to the OP, he really is in a tough spot. If he does not directly address the sex issue, it will not improve; expecting him to tolerate bad sex perpetually is not a reasonable expectation. If he focuses on the wrong type of healing for his wife first, he risks spinning his wheels and frustrating all involved.

Earlier, the OP noted he spoke to his wife's doctor about these issues and got a referral to a counselor. He then contacted that service and got whatever appointment he could as they were short-handed. He then said he planned to get an opinion as to how to address the various issues. If that is the case and he's following their (expert) advice, I don't see why we should advise him differently.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Experts and therapist should never be followed blindly. They make mistakes based on talent, training and bad info. I see nothing wrong with people saying what they see. 

If he wanted to confine himself to the therapist opinions, he would not be posting on TAM. He obviously wants input from regular folks.

Lones
Irish poet- now I understand. The average Irishman can spin a great tale in his sleep and charm the hair off the head of Mary Magdalene. You're better than average. 

I agree, you have a great deal to manage and I wish you and your family success with the assistance you are getting. 

No don't PM me. With your talents, you'll persuade me to do cartwheels in the street as a curative for my dyspepsia, after you convince me that it is the source of my bad attitude. 

You'll not bewitch me!!:nono:


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

It sounds like she has had some experiance with unwanted sexual contact, she needs to come out and say what happened to you so you can help her to move forward, without this she will keep having the past go over and over in her mind, her young mind has connected sex with unwanted contact, this needs to be addressed for her and your sake, your sex life has been affected by this man so it is in you interest aswell to get this out, it shouldnt go any further than the two of you, people who do this to children should be publicly executed, all the best


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Experts and therapist should never be followed blindly. They make mistakes based on talent, training and bad info. I see nothing wrong with people saying what they see.
> 
> If he wanted to confine himself to the therapist opinions, he would not be posting on TAM. He obviously wants input from regular folks.


True enough. My concerns (after giving this substantial thought) were:

1. The therapists are much closer to this than we are and likely have more details than we do. At least one person (the wife's M.D.) has talked to both of them - we have not. Thus we should be cautious of making snap judgments on the basis of the limited information (and personal biases) we posess.

2. The OP has been accused of thinking only of his sexual fulfillment, which is contrary to what he has told us he is doing for his wife. People only wanting sex don't bust their asses coming here looking for advice, much less call doctors, make counseling appointments, etc. 

There is significant bashing; I think some folks here have imputed to the OP an ulterior motive when he has written much indicating just the opposite (including being willing to forego sex for an extended time). The other alternative potentially is that there might be people who feel that he should permanently subordinate his sexual needs to his wife's comfort; I don't see that as beneficial to either of them (or their family for that matter).


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

My wife and I went to MC for the first time yesterday. I was fairly straight talking throughout although talking about my feelings disarmed me somewhat as did the way some questions by the counselor were framed. After probing a bit the counselor asked the buring question 'were you abused?' to my wife and at first she stayed silent and gave no answer but after asking a second time my wife said that she was molested by her Grandfather when she was just 8 years old and that she doesn't remember much as she has blocked it out. I was relieved that my wife was brave enough to talk about this. It was very hard for her to do. Rather than burst into tears she laughed. This is a nervous thing she does when really stressed and talking to a stranger. 

I at least knew that I had not imagined what my wife had said despite her denials over the years. I would imagine that this subject will be delved into deeper over the next 2 sessions and I hope it gives my wife some resolution. 

I have been advised to listen more to my wife, communicate better and I have been asked to swear off sex for a month. The next number of weeks will be a real test of our marriage.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

I am not really sure how I should respond to what you have written Iwant2 bhappy except to wish you all the best in coping with your troubles. It really scares and horrifies me to hear about how people so young get preyed on.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

lonesomegra said:


> I am not really sure how I should respond to what you have written Iwant2 bhappy except to wish you all the best in coping with your troubles. It really scares and horrifies me to hear about how people so young get preyed on.


The more I read about the subject the more horrifying it really is. The fallout is terrible, too. I now spot the signs of child sex abuse all over the place and have yet to be wrong when I ask (quite gently) a husband if his wife was abused as a child. Most of these men are clueless about the depth of the effects on their wife and their marriage, nor how to support their wife.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sadly about 17% of boys and 30 - 40% of girls are sexually abused as children. The real numbers are probably higher. It is a big problem that society refuses to address. In most case an adult is aware of the abuse and does nothing. The abuser are usually trusted family members who appear normal. They often have positions that allow them to prey on children. 

I don't understand why we tolerate this. When there is a case in the news there is a temporary groundswell of outrage that quickly dies down. It is so distasteful that normal people can't bear to think of it. . 

Strangely enough, the abuses are seldom ostracized. They are supported by their friends and family. The children are frequently the ones who are ostracized. Judges give light sentences when they know that the problem is incurable. 

There was a war on drugs, why is there not a war on child sexual abuse? Why are these people supported and coddled as if they are victims. It sickens me to think that pedophiles are almost garenteed to committ thier crimes with no punishment. Internet porn of child abuse is rampant. 

It would be easy to get these people but no one is interested to do it. I was abused and my perpetrator lived as if nothing happened and probably reoffended many times. I hope before I leave this earth, that some brave soul will help the millions of children that will be abused by undertaking the task of stamping this out once and for all by going after these people and putting them away for life. 

Their sins are visited upon all of us in our relationships. Maybe as more marriages are effected, there will be an impetus to declare war. 

All I can say is watch your kids at all time. You can't teach them to protect themselves because the molesters are too skillful. They pick kids who are isolated and from families so troubled that they forget they have kids. The onus cannot be left to the child but to adults.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Lones blessings to you and your wife, you have a great deal to handle and I hope you get the support you need to lighten the load.

DTO Who said anything about permanent subjugation of sex? Is it too much to ask to prioritize serious pressing issues over sexual desire? Is a temporary hiatus of sex with his wife too much for him to do? Sexual pleasure is really not the most important thing in life. There are actually many things that are more important. The responsibilities of a mature adult is one that I can think of now. 

Why do you view asking him to put first things first as a judgment against him? He needed to hear it. People are frequently advised to change their priorities. Is sex in a special category that should never be removed from the top of the list? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

catherine602 you speak well, i couldnt agree more with the child abuse, what i find most alarming is the refusal of any media or authority to declare the predators who prey on boys to be deviant homosexuals, and the girls are usually preyed upon by famly members who were usually themselves abused hence iniquity, the family trait to sin, until there is public name and shame policies and family are given the power to rid themselves of evil there is not much hope but to keep an eye on your children like a hawk, this will always discourage abusers as the risk of getting caught is too high...in new zealand a liberal female judge recently commented on how well dressed the 16yr rapist of a 5 yr old tourist girl was, there is no justice for the innocent here


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

thor very true, basically women who were sexually abused as children need so much help to have a normal sexual relationship, the man needs to retrain her brain to rewire the sexual feelings with love and emotional intimacy from the feeling of unwanted touching and feeling dirty, this takes quite some time and is the only real path to go down, but it starts with her with an adult brain dealing with what happened by understanding why these things have happened to her, and then the rewireing can start, have done this myself and it works, death to all child abusers, hang them up in public


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

Just posting here to let you know that I have moved this issue into the Experiences in Counselling forum. Not sure how to make a link to that thread.


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