# Husband EA with co worker, what to do?



## Cris7

Ok so I've posted a couple of times here about my marriage. My husband of 6 years gave me the ILYBNILWY speech on sept. 26 of this year. I was shocked, begged for a chance and for him to really try. He said he liked flirting with other women and didn't find me attractive but not sure if he wanted a divorce. He said he would try. A couple of weeks later I started getting a gut feeling there was someone else. He of course denied it. I guilted him into admitting he talked to a 26 year old female co worker but it was innocent. I didn't believe him but had no proof so I told him he needed to choose between talking with her and being with me. He chose being with me. Fast forward to a week ago. I found the secret cell phone. Many texts about how hot he thought she was and just give him time and he will divorce me etc. when confronted he was very remorseful said he didn't love her, he just wanted to screw her. Long story short he says he feels like he owes it to the kids and me to give us a real try. The catch is she still works with him. He ended things with her and management knows about it and told them both that if it continued she would be fired on the spot. From reading the texts I got the impression that he was more into it than her, that she more or less just liked the attention and control she had. My question is has anyone heard of people involved in something like this continuing to work together platonically? He says he can handle it.


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## canttrustu

NO he CANT. NO he CANT. NO he CANT!!!!!!!!! Please take my word for this if you do NOTHING else- HE CANT Handle IT! He will keep going back and if not her then someone else until you get to the bottom of 'why'? But for now he needs NC- immediately. Transfer to another dept. whatever. My H had to leave his job to get NC. It was the ONLY way to pull him out of his "feelings" for her. This is not acceptable. It wont work. 

You are expected to just smile and pack his lunch and send him off to HER everyday???? Is that his plan??? Business as usual?


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## Entropy3000

No he can't. He must go NC.


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## iheartlife

Start reading forum threads. You will find that proximity of an OW or OM prevents reconciliation. 

Here is how to understand it:

--he is obsessed with her

--he is sexually attracted to her and infatuated with her

--he has spent a lot of time and effort to court her

--he took the trouble to buy a secret cell, for goodness' sake

He gets a hormonal reward "hit" in the brain from any interaction with her. That includes calling her, messaging her, texting her, whatever communication form he was using. But it also includes SEEING HER without saying a word.

Hitting on her became an escapist fantasy for him--highly, highly addictive. Not technically physically addictive, but an extremely bad habit--a compulsion. Compulsions (like shoppaholism, gambling) involve a hormonal / dopamine reward circuit that can actually be measured in the brain physiologically--since taking an interest with her you can actually measure the difference in his brain (if you had a baseline view of his brain from before his attachment).

Worse still, you have evidence that this relationship may have been largely one-sided. One-sided obsessions are extremely tough to crack. In other words, if it's true it never went physical, she's 'the one who got away.' His ruminating and obsessing over her is a way for him to forget, temporarily, that's he's married, tied down, committed to one person, middle-aged, must work to pay the bills, etc., all of that stuff that causes anxiety, stress, and depression.

Some people turn to alcohol; he turned to this co-worker. This isn't just a switch that he flips because you found the phone and his boss is watching. I know it's an enormous thing to ask, but I would not risk my marriage over his keeping that job.


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## canttrustu

iheartlife said:


> Start reading forum threads. You will find that proximity of an OW or OM prevents reconciliation.
> 
> Here is how to understand it:
> 
> --*he is obsessed with her*--he is sexually attracted to her and *infatuated with her*
> --he has spent a lot of time and effort to court her
> 
> --he took the trouble to buy a secret cell, for goodness' sake
> 
> He gets a hormonal reward "hit" in the brain from any interaction with her. That includes calling her, messaging her, texting her, whatever communication form he was using. But it also includes SEEING HER without saying a word.
> 
> Hitting on her became an escapist fantasy for him--highly, highly addictive. Not technically physically addictive, but an extremely bad habit--a compulsion. Compulsions (like shoppaholism, gambling) involve a hormonal / dopamine reward circuit that can actually be measured in the brain physiologically--since taking an interest with her you can actually measure the difference in his brain (if you had a baseline view of his brain from before his attachment).
> 
> Worse still, you have evidence that this relationship may have been largely one-sided. One-sided obsessions are extremely tough to crack. In other words, if it's true it never went physical, she's 'the one who got away.' His ruminating and obsessing over her is a way for him to forget, temporarily, that's he's married, tied down, committed to one person, middle-aged, must work to pay the bills, etc., all of that stuff that causes anxiety, stress, and depression.
> 
> Some people turn to alcohol; he turned to this co-worker. *This isn't just a switch that he flips because you found the phone and his boss is watching. I know it's an enormous thing to ask, but I would not risk my marriage over his keeping that job.*


I had to answer THIS very question. No way was I ever A) gonna get the full truth B) was he ever going to even start detaching significantly enough for R- As long as there is ANY ANY kind of interaction. That means as little as "hello" in the hall each morning. SHe will never leave his head while there is proximity to her. Never. Take it from someone who has lived THIS very scenerio. He has to leave that job or she does. The longer this goes on the less likely it is to end in your favor.


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## Cris7

I felt that she should leave the position as well. He is a doctor and she is one of his assistants. He pretty much told me that if he wanted her gone she would be, but that he would resent me for making him do that and going without help until they find a replacement for her. His office manager doesn't want to get HR involved because it would be messy. Part of me wondered if I should contact HR annonomously. I just don't know what to do.


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## iheartlife

Here's a question for you--did your husband tell HR about the secret cell phone? If I were HR, I'd be mighty, mighty concerned about this assistant's ability to sue for sexual harrassment. YOU should be concerned about this too, and this is an excellent reason for telling your husband he should quit. (There is no question of her quitting--the company would have a lawsuit on its hands that very second.)

------------------------------------

Cris7, I hope you don't mind, but I'm linking your other threads in the forum and quoting the most relevant posts so people have the full picture.

(the link below goes to page 2 of that thread, where she discovered the EA)
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/59173-help-2.html#post1177376



Cris7 said:


> Ok so I did some more talking with my husband and found out he was in the beginnings of an EA with a much younger (24) H is 39 coworker. He just started discussing her relationship with her boyfriend with her and comparing it to our situation. He says it was nothing more and has agreed to stop talking to her about it. He also seems angry that its just one more thing that I'm taking away from him. My worry is that now she is like a forbidden fruit and its going to cause more issues. I just couldn't let it go on. I didn't tell him he needed to stop, I just said he needed to choose what he wanted, to go down that path with her, or work on our marriage but he couldn't do both. He chose to work on marriage. I'm still just really worried. He's going to be seeing her almost every day. *She is one of his assistants.* I hate this!





Cris7 said:


> Ok I have more to add. I have a friend that works in the same office as my husband and his assistant. She said she noticed him flirting with the assistant, but that she really didn't see any evidence that there was anything else going on. She also said that yesterday my husband was distant towards her like he said he would be. My friend is going to keep an eye on things for me. I am also getting the assistants cell number so I can check our phone bill to see if he contacts her outside of work. My gut is telling me that this was just flirting that was going down a path of something more, but my husband admitted it to me and agrees it was wrong and that he will stop. He is affectionate at home, our sex life is great, he just doesn't feel a spark. He tells me he loves me. Am I silly to think we have a chance? My game plan as of now is to just be the best mom and wife I can be to show him how good things can be.


------------------------------

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...-says-no-passion-desire-me-but-great-sex.html



Cris7 said:


> Ok so my husband told me recently that he has lost a spark for me and gave me the ILYBNILWY speech. He says that he doesn't feel a desire or spark for me. We are working on things. The confusing thing is ever since he told me how he felt our sex has been great. He is very passionate and the frequency has increased. When I asked him about it he said that *he would think about other women and direct the passion towards me.* I can believe that to a point, but it has been going on for a month and a half now. He makes eye contact with me and caresses my face and body. I want to know from the guys out there, is it likely that he isn't feeling any desire for me? Can men really fake passion like that? Or is he still feeling a little something for me?





Cris7 said:


> Some background information. I suffered depression after our youngest was born and wasn't the most supportive wife. I was sad most of the time and just didn't enjoy life. I did the bare minimum while my husband worked very hard. It's went on for 3 years. He says he feels that his love was just chipped away during that time and he's not sure how to get it back. He recently turned 39 and he lost a very good friend to suicide. He said that made him look at his life and wonder if he wants to spend the other half of it unhappy. I came out of my depression a couple of weeks before he told me all of this. I feel wonderful. So much more energy. I've lost 25 lbs and am taking much better care of myself. His eyes started wandering and he has started flirting but has said he will stop to try and make it work with me





Cris7 said:


> Deep down I think he wants it to work with me. The way I see it, why would he tell me all of these things if he didn't want to get things out in the open. He also has told me that he started talking to a much younger co-worker very casually about relationship issues she had and then he would say things like he understood. *He says he's leaning towards a divorce, but he doesn't know. I really feel like he is confused and doesn't know what he wants. I'm going to be the best I can be for now and hope that he comes around. I'm certainly not going to pressure him at this point.*


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## vi_bride04

NC is a must. You can't back down on that.

My stbx had a PA and EA with a coworker. When they are still in the picture it is impossible to R.


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## iheartlife

Cris7 said:


> I felt that she should leave the position as well. He is a doctor and she is one of his assistants. He pretty much told me that if he wanted her gone she would be, but that he would resent me for making him do that and going without help until they find a replacement for her. *His office manager doesn't want to get HR involved because it would be messy.* Part of me wondered if I should contact HR annonomously. I just don't know what to do.


That's because this situation is almost by definition sexual harrassment.

Did you know that the other assistants can sue for sexual harrassment in this case? Most people think sexual harrassment is something only the subordinate can sue over (i.e., Monica Lewinsky) but the truth is, that the OTHER subordinates can sue on the basis of a "hostile work environment." That's because it's hard NOT to show favoritism (in terms of job perks and favors) to the assistant who is getting sexual attention. Even something like getting extra breaks, long lunches, permission to leave early, etc. all amounts to favoring that assistant over the others--hence their ability to bring a lawsuit on that basis.

Your husband is mighty arrogant to pick this particular woman to have an emotional affair over. Does that arrogance translate into other aspects of your relationship?


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## Cris7

How do I go about this without causing my H to be angry with me?


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## strugglinghusband

YOU shouldnt have to handle it..the hell with "He says he can handle it"...its about YOU!!



CUT any and ALL possible ties with the other man/woman. Keeping a person in your life with whom you have had an affair is like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube. Not only is this a confusing message to the other person, it is also EXTREMELY DISRESPECTFUL to your spouse. It does not matter if you have known this other man/woman since kindergarten,or have to see this person at work. it is time to break those ties. Do what you must to avoid any contact. Convincing yourself that you need to talk to them to 'break it off' only communicates that their feelings, not your spouse's, are what you are most concerned about. Once you have allowed another individual to permeate, invade or undermine your marital union, there is no place for this person in your life. You simply cannot expect your victim spouse to move past the affair as long as you continue communicating with, seeing, or having any type of relationship with this other man/woman. It is in fact an insult to the intelligence of your current spouse for you to say that you can maintain a professional, platonic, or otherwise innocent relationship with this destructive individual. Furthermore, because this person had an affair with a married man/woman, your current spouse knows they have absolutely NO RESPECT for your marriage. Continuing to work with, hang out with, email or chat with this person is probably the single worst possible thing to do if you are wanting to repair your marriage. This is the time to figure out which relationship is the MOST IMPORTANT to you, either your marriage or the relationship with the other man/woman, and behave accordingly. You simply cannot drive in two lanes at once....ever


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## iheartlife

Cris7 said:


> How do I go about this without causing my H to be angry with me?


I'd start by bringing up the sexual harrassment issue. The fact that this particular assistant isn't the only one with the ability to sue; that the other assistants would also have the ability to sue based on a hostile work environment. Urge him to quit on the basis that this would be hanging over his head at that particular place if he stays. The other shoe would always be able to drop. What do you think he would say to that?


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## Cris7

He has always been a workaholic, but I wouldn't say arrogant. I think he is going through some sort of midlife crisis at this point and that the younger girl was an ego boost. His logic was that now that they have the threat of her being fired over their heads that he is not going to pursue her anymore and she hasn't been the aggressor so he doesn't feel like she would do anything. He kind of plays it off like it wasn't about her as a person, he just wanted to screw her. I feel like this a cross road and I don't want to do anything to push him away. I know it sounds crazy with what he is putting me through, but I love him and I don't want to have regret.


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## Cris7

He feels that he cannot quit. Him being a doctor he doesn't think he will be able to find as good of a job as he has now with the hospital system.


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## Cris7

Honestly I fear that he would divorce me rather than have her fired and that scares me.


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> How do I go about this without causing my H to be angry with me?


 Cris, two things going on here. 

First, it sounds like you aren't giving him much of a reason to choose you. No offense, but if you've been depressed, he's been doing all the hard work, you've not been a great wife, as you described, then it's hard to justify coming down hard on him. What are you offering in return?

Therefore, I want to suggest that you now bust your butt to get yourself into gear and overcome whatever it is that you're going through and step up and become the wife/mother you should be. Get therapy, get on meds, do whatever it takes to become 100% for your husband. 

Second, you DO have to stop their contact, whether he gets mad at you or not. Whether you stay married or not. That is not a healthy relationship and it shouldn't continue. For anyone's sake, including your kids. So you DO have to contact HR. Don't do it anonymously. OWN your own right to save your marriage, ok? OWN your right to be mad at him and EXPECT him to respect you. If HE can't do the right thing and get rid of her, it's up to you. Once the affair fog dissipates, he'll be able to see that you fought to save your marriage.


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## turnera

Oh, and btw, PLEASE stop starting new threads. It's hard to follow a person's story if they don't stick to one thread.


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> I think he is going through some sort of midlife crisis at this point and that the younger girl was an ego boost.


I think he should be getting that much attention from _you_. Is he? That's a need that YOU should be meeting.


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## Cris7

Turnera, I completely understand your points. That is part of the reason I haven't demanded anything from him when it comes to this OW. Just before the "speech" I got over my depression. Since the speech I have lost 30 lbs and have been very affectionate towards my H. I didn't know he was unhappy and now that I do I am trying to fix it. I can say that I feel really good about how I have been behaving towards him. I just don't know how to deal with him working with her.


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## turnera

You don't. You tell him it has to stop. There are certain times when either spouse has the right to put their foot down, for the protection of the marriage. This is one of them.

They WON'T stop cheating if they continue to work together. Every day is a new hit of the drug. You need to man up and say 'I won't stay married if you won't get rid of her.'


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## Grey Goose

Ok the first thing I have got to say here.... It is not your fault that he has a whatever crisis or he woke up and now he thinks he is God and can pursue or screw whatever assistant he has. I do not understand why people complicate their life having affairs when clearly they can not handle one relationship, why jump into a second one? Worse, why pee the water you drink? I can not understand what are they thinking when they have affairs at work.

Please do not feel like I have no clue, my stbxh had his thing at work also with a co-worker that I knew and warned him she was after him. It was fun for him until he was discovered and he had no family, no kid and no house to go to. I am not the strongest person ever but the truth is if you confront them and they do not understand that they have to crawl for forgiveness, then you really need to push them to the curve, nothing else will wake them up. You cannot tip toe yourself around this. I am not the expert in relationships or affairs but the one thing I do know is that people who have affairs do it and continue them because they can and are allowed to, nothing stops them and there are no consequences. They have to see what their actions lead to. If worse comes to show, he will have responsibilities to account for and whatever law suit may come his way... he asked for it when he decided to go and pee his drinking water!

You may feel depressed and a lot of things, it is perfectly normal but never show him, the truth is you need to grab on to the power, as long as he has it things will be about him and not about you, the real victim.


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## Cris7

Ok so I've been thinking about it. What about if I built some goodwill first. Make things really good here throughout the holidays and the afterwards see how things stand with him and the OW. I know him seeing her brings it all back, but if I demand that she leave wouldn't he just think about her more? Maybe even feel guilty about it and blame me, pulling away from me and running to her rescue? I don't want to seem like a weak woman here. I know what I want and what I deserve. I just want to play my cards right. I have given him numerous opportunities to leave, yet he stays. I know he still has some feelings for me. Maybe if I show him how good it can be with me he will just naturally pull away from her? I don't know. I just don't want to push him too fast. It's only been a week since he was caught and they weren't even texting more than a month. Still wrong is wrong. Thank you all for your advice.


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris, she's gotta go. My father was a physician and had an affair with a nurse in his practice when we were very young. My Mom (having already been through a first marriage with a cheating husband) didn't stand for it -- and confronted it head on. Everyone in the office knew. My father chose my Mom and his family but it was NOT easy and for the longest time he made it out like my Mom was overreacting and it wasn't as much of an affair as she was painting it to be. Different times back then -- he finally fessed up years later. 

But that affair scenario was SO common in the day. As I understand it -- the whole Doctor/nurse/assistant thing still is.... These people work very close together under sometimes stressful circumstances where there's opportunity to bond over somewhat emotional situations . It's also an opportunity for your husband to have his ego stroked and to be the "hero". Though he may be the aggressor, and I have no doubt he is -- if she weren't playing into it there would be no issue. In today's era he IS liable for a harrassment suit and earlier posts about this issue have very good points to bring up with him. 

BE strong, be the best person you can be for yourself. Do not let him off the hook. And let him know about the consequences, the dangers of being slapped legally. It may not stop him but it certainly will take some of the fun out of it. The more exposure, the more reality to puncture the affair, whether EA or PA, the greater your chances for having the fog lift.


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 said:


> Ok so I've been thinking about it. What about if I built some goodwill first. Make things really good here throughout the holidays and the afterwards see how things stand with him and the OW. I know him seeing her brings it all back, but if I demand that she leave wouldn't he just think about her more? Maybe even feel guilty about it and blame me, pulling away from me and running to her rescue? I don't want to seem like a weak woman here. I know what I want and what I deserve. I just want to play my cards right. I have given him numerous opportunities to leave, yet he stays. I know he still has some feelings for me. Maybe if I show him how good it can be with me he will just naturally pull away from her? I don't know. I just don't want to push him too fast. It's only been a week since he was caught and they weren't even texting more than a month. Still wrong is wrong. Thank you all for your advice.


Cris, if you read enough threads here you'll learn you can't "nice" them out of the affair. After my first confrontation with my husband I tried to make everything all sunny upbeat and happy. It didn't do it....he continued on. Didn't cut it off, control it, bring things back to normal, all the stuff he said he'd do....He encouraged it even more via email... There are a million posts on here with similar stories. 

If you want to work on yourself and make yourself the wonderful, fabulous person you're rediscovering and choosing when to expose, when it's good for you, then so be it...but not because you want him to recognize what he's been missing. (He would already be there.) If you need to have peaceful holidays then choose your time in the New Year, BUT realize that this could also give more time for them to intensify the emotional bond and for him to pour on the sauce even more. Believe me, this kind of thing often fuels the fire, unfortunately. 

Are you reading any of the great books recommended here yet? Please, if anything pick up "Not Just Friends" -- it'll help you understand how these things develop.

I'm sooo sorry you're dealing with this.


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> Ok so I've been thinking about it. What about if I built some goodwill first. Make things really good here throughout the holidays and the afterwards see how things stand with him and the OW. I know him seeing her brings it all back, but if I demand that she leave wouldn't he just think about her more?


You're still not getting it. You are acting out of fear. Fear he will leave you. Fear he will blame you. Fear he will turn angry/mean/distant/whatever.

You are the victim here, not him. YOU need to get mad as hell at what he did, hold that inside you, and use it to guide you. How DARE he do this to you? How DARE he think he can still have his hoochie on the side (or at least in plain sight) and expect to get to KEEP YOU?

Until you stand up for yourself, you will ALWAYS be second class citizen to him. Because YOU have taught him not to respect you.

btw, as for not thinking of her 'more,' that's not how affairs work. They bring on a chemical high in the brain (look up PEA or limerance) that makes cheaters do stupid things. Seeing OW will KEEP that chemical flowing. NOT seeing her - assuming he fires her - will cause that chemical, that drug addiction, fade away and he will STOP thinking about her.


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## canttrustu

also, your plan allows for at least another month of daily contact. Cris, a month is affair land is a year in the "real" world easily. SOOOO much can and does happen in a month. THere are people on here who's spouse started an affair and wanted a divorce b/c they were so "in love" with AP in that amount of time. In a month my h sent over 1000 yes 1000 emails, hundreds and hundreds of personal conversations, who knows how many texts. Do you have ANY idea how much damage can be done in a month? One poster I can think of right off had a 7 week EA- two years later he is still putting the pieces back together. Glueing his wife together everytime a trigger hits. His heart is still sinking everytime he gets a call from an unrecognized number for fear of how far back that will set his R. TWO YEARS later. Dont let the sunset on this another day.


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## canttrustu

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Cris, if you read enough threads here you'll learn you can't "nice" them out of the affair. After my first confrontation with my husband I tried to make everything all sunny upbeat and happy. It didn't do it....he continued on. Didn't cut it off, control it, bring things back to normal, all the stuff he said he'd do....He encouraged it even more via email... There are a million posts on here with similar stories.
> 
> If you want to work on yourself and make yourself the wonderful, fabulous person you're rediscovering and choosing when to expose, when it's good for you, then so be it...but not because you want him to recognize what he's been missing. (He would already be there.) If you need to have peaceful holidays then choose your time in the New Year, BUT realize that this could also give more time for them to intensify the emotional bond and for him to pour on the sauce even more. Believe me, this kind of thing often fuels the fire, unfortunately.
> 
> Are you reading any of the great books recommended here yet? Please, if anything pick up "Not Just Friends" -- it'll help you understand how these things develop.
> 
> I'm sooo sorry you're dealing with this.


ditto. ditto and ditto. Nicing doesnt work. It only emboldens the most of them. They think you too naive to 'catch on' to whats really happening. Just the silly little wife, what she doesnt know wont hurt her....


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 said:


> He says he can handle it.


Btw -- he can't. He's addicted. He's blind, fogged out, etc.


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## LookingForTheSun

canttrustu said:


> also, your plan allows for at least another month of daily contact. Cris, a month is affair land is a year in the "real" world easily. SOOOO much can and does happen in a month. THere are people on here who's spouse started an affair and wanted a divorce b/c they were so "in love" with AP in that amount of time. In a month my h sent over 1000 yes 1000 emails, hundreds and hundreds of personal conversations, who knows how many texts. Do you have ANY idea how much damage can be done in a month? One poster I can think of right off had a 7 week EA- two years later he is still putting the pieces back together. Glueing his wife together everytime a trigger hits. His heart is still sinking everytime he gets a call from an unrecognized number for fear of how far back that will set his R. TWO YEARS later. Dont let the sunset on this another day.[/QUOTE
> 
> This is TOTALLY TRUE! My WH talked to OW for 6 weeks online, spent 5 days with her and was going to throw 15 years of marriage and 2 daughters away just like that. Because I didn't step up and was afraid to do anything drastic and honestly ddn't know any better (before I found TAMS), he maintained contact with her for 3 more months under my nose after the first DD, only to result in 3 more DDs - all very painful.


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## iheartlife

Cris7--

Another thing I recommend: go to a lawyer. Find out what your rights are. Your husband has already threatened you with divorce at least once and has told you he was strongly leaning in that direction. So, find out what your rights are. Go to a lawyer and discuss your situation--custody (any kids?), property, alimony, etc.

You may never need this information, but having it will make a big difference to you: it will give you the ability to judge correctly what your situation would be if your husband suddenly changes course and divorces you. Right now, you are, for I'm sure understandable reasons, afraid of divorce. But some of that fear is fear of the unknown. So face that fear directly and gather all the information you can should the worst happen.

This will empower you to do what you need to do to protect your marriage, once you know your legal rights and the lay of the land.


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## Cris7

I am so unbelievably sad right now. How did I get here? We have a counseling session on wed. Should I wait until then to bring it up? I am so terrified. We have two beautiful little boys 6,4 and I have 3 children from a previous marriage. I have been through divorce once and know how damaging it is to the kids. I always swore I would never do that again. Deep down I don't want to give him an excuse to divorce me. If he's going to do it I want him to be man enough to decide. I don't want to hear "well you couldn't handle me working with her even though I was fine so you ultimately caused this".


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## canttrustu

NO. Ultimately HE caused this by breaking his vows. HE caused it by not doing enough to 'correct' his wrongdoing. HE caused it by not reengaging his w. HE caused it By not cutting any and ALL contact with a woman with whom he walked all over his marital boundaries. HE caused it and NEVER let him tell you otherwise. Reach down to those boot straps and pull yourself up. The only way to face a bully is head on.

And believe me if he divorces you over THIS- its what he was gonna do anyway. This is just an excuse to do it. I suspect he wont. He's just trying to bully his way into keeping his AP.


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## iheartlife

When you go to the counselor, ask if they are familiar with the research conducted by Dr Shirley Glass. She was a nationally recognized infidelity researcher. She wrote the book Not Just Friends--maybe you'll be able to get your H to read it. But knowing the book well is at least one way of determining whether you MC understands infidelity and the danger this woman continues to present to your marriage.

I hope you're also discussing this with an IC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123

I am going to be the bad one, and offer you the perspective of the other woman. I am the other woman in my situation, with someone that is also a co-worker. We have tried a number of times to be friends or "just work together", and everyone is right... it doesn't seem to work. BY allowing them to continue contact you are inhibiting the possibility for reconciliation. My affair has been both PA and an EA... and the longest we have ever gone without breaking the NC agreement is a few days. If you are insistent on making it work, you need to put your foot down and make him see that you are worth giving her up for. I can tell you with certainty that the issue with my AP's wife is her ambivilance to what she wants to do, which only perpetuates the matter even further.


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## Grey Goose

I may have to think about posting my story, it may help some people out. I am just not ready, too much rage still!

Chris, being nice will only bring you humiliation, despair, pain and disrespect. Even if he were not a bully, him not seing the real consequences of his actions will only show him that he can get away with it and that he is in control. Believe me you do not want that, once that happens you lost your marriage, your husband and your family. See things for what they are: he screwed up and needs to make it right, no matter what and it should be ALL about you and your family!
It should be you thinking do I want to stsy here and him tip toing around things so he does not piss you off.


----------



## Maricha75

Grey Goose said:


> It should be you thinking do I want to stay here and him tip toeing around things so he does not piss you off.


This right here. Cris, YOU are not the problem here... HE is.


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## jessi

grey goose, 

i think you. could help and be helped telling your story.
my husband also had a co-worker affair.

having a affair in the work place and continuing contact was a nightmare for me, are you in tat position as well?

jessi


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## canttrustu

Pepper123 said:


> I am going to be the bad one, and offer you the perspective of the other woman. I am the other woman in my situation, with someone that is also a co-worker. We have tried a number of times to be friends or "just work together", and everyone is right... it doesn't seem to work. BY allowing them to continue contact you are inhibiting the possibility for reconciliation. My affair has been both PA and an EA... and the longest we have ever gone without breaking the NC agreement is a few days. If you are insistent on making it work, you need to put your foot down and make him see that you are worth giving her up for. I can tell you with certainty that the issue with my AP's wife is her ambivilance to what she wants to do, which only perpetuates the matter even further.


Do yourself a favor- remove yourself. Obviously he is not going to leave his wife for you and you are only causing her pain and misery and him as well. He is infatuated with you b/c you dont have to deal with real life with him. You can put on your best side and thats an escape for him from reality. Have more respect for yourself and get out of THEIR marriage, please. You are enticing because he hasnt seen you with diarrhea and puking your guts out with the flu, you havent washed his underwear, He hasnt had to pay bills with you and wipe snotty noses. You havent nagged him to take out the trash for the third time....and the list of reality goes on and on. Its easy to look so "perfect" when its all a facade, isnt it? Thanks for having the guts to post this now have the guts to move out of this trainwreck. Dont be the cause of his childrens misery when mommy and daddy dont love each other anymore.....

You deserve more and so does his wife.... If he wanted you for real you wouldnt be the OW.If you doubt that ask him to leave her and see..... Let me ask you, what is so enticing about a man who is clearly an unfaithful partner? do you think if YOU were the wife he wouldnt do the same damned thing to YOU?


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## Grey Goose

jessi said:


> grey goose,
> 
> i think you. could help and be helped telling your story.
> my husband also had a co-worker affair.
> 
> having a affair in the work place and continuing contact was a nightmare for me, are you in tat position as well?
> 
> jessi


It will be a year from dday in Dec and he left his job on May, but our story has not been a consistent one and has had a lot of episodes of pain and grief. We have been separated for most of the year. I am having quite a bad week so there may be a chance I post, I just feel numb and angry.


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## canttrustu

Grey Goose said:


> It will be a year from dday in Dec and he left his job on May, but our story has not been a consistent one and has had a lot of episodes of pain and grief. We have been separated for most of the year. I am having quite a bad week so there may be a chance I post, I just feel numb and angry.


Do post, it can be quite cathardic. And as inconsistent and different as you think your story is I will bet when you post some other posters will have had similar experiences. Post it and let us help if we can???


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## Grey Goose

That is sooo nice CTU! I was feeling your pain last week and wantd to defend you so hard, hope I did! Very happy you are having better days now, I think we just need space to be mad and proud sometimes. Our pride takes such a blow that we need a little push and *****yness sometimes.


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## Cris7

jessi said:


> grey goose,
> 
> i think you. could help and be helped telling your story.
> my husband also had a co-worker affair.
> 
> having a affair in the work place and continuing contact was a nightmare for me, are you in tat position as well?
> 
> jessi


Jessi, how did your situation turn out?


----------



## canttrustu

yes. I was upset and venting something hard. I was also right in theory I just got a bit too testy b/c of the damned triggers. Thanks for having my back and understanding. The ones who were pushing me were right too. Sigma was pushing way hard but he knows alot of our story and knows we have fought so hard just to make it here and was trying to make me remember the whole story not just this one screw up. But sometimes when those triggers come callin'....


Back to you Cris. What are your current thoughts?


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## Cris7

I told H last night that I didn't see us working if he still worked with her. His response was that he felt that if he demanded she leave then he would feel a lot of guilt. He also said that he would resent me for removing her from his life without him knowing if his feelings would just fade. That is his hope. That he and I will work on things and feelings for me will get stronger and feelings for her will fade. He says there is no way for them to have a relationship as long as she is working with him. She will be fired. He says that he wouldn't be the only one affected if she left, she works with another one of his partners two days a week and how would it be explained to them? He said that he sees it being worse for us if I demand that he can't work with her. He wants to handle it and not be told what to do by me. I'm still going to bring it up in counseling tomorrow and we will go from there.


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## canttrustu

Cris7 said:


> I told H last night that I didn't see us working if he still worked with her. His response was that he felt that if he demanded she leave then he would feel a lot of guilt. He also said that he would resent me for removing her from his life without him knowing if his feelings would just fade. That is his hope. That he and I will work on things and feelings for me will get stronger and feelings for her will fade. He says there is no way for them to have a relationship as long as she is working with him. She will be fired. He says that he wouldn't be the only one affected if she left, she works with another one of his partners two days a week and how would it be explained to them? He said that he sees it being worse for us if I demand that he can't work with her. He wants to handle it and not be told what to do by me. I'm still going to bring it up in counseling tomorrow and we will go from there.


Listen, he doesnt get to call the shots here. HE cheated. HE does what makes you able to live with that. WHATEVER that is. Otherwise, he's not remorseful. He's gaslighting you. His "feelings" wont disappear and he knows it. That is NOT how it works. Go ahead, look all over this board and fine just ONE WS that stayed with their AP and it just "faded"....we'll wait...


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## strugglinghusband

Cris7 said:


> I told H last night that I didn't see us working if he still worked with her.
> that was good, but stick to your guns, he needs to go no contact
> 
> His response was that he felt that if he demanded she leave then he would feel a lot of guilt.
> he should feel gulity for what he did to you, the hell with what he feels about her
> 
> He also said that he would resent me for removing her from his life without him knowing if his feelings would just fade.
> what about your resentment if she stays?, it seems like he dosent give a **** about your feelings only his own selfish needs
> 
> That is his hope. That he and I will work on things and feelings for me will get stronger and feelings for her will fade.
> His hope or yours? there is no way in hell he can be around her and his feelings will fade, it's like someone addicted to cocaine, you cant just be around it and get a little sniff, you want more and more, he needs to go no contact end of story, not a little... NONE!!!
> He says there is no way for them to have a relationship as long as she is working with him. She will be fired.
> I call BS they will have a working relantionship which means contact, she will never ever be 100% out his head until she is 100% out of his life
> 
> He says that he wouldn't be the only one affected if she left, she works with another one of his partners two days a week and how would it be explained to them?
> To bad for him, maybe it would be easier for him to explain to evreyone why he may get divorced, then they will all know anyways
> 
> He said that he sees it being worse for us if I demand that he can't work with her. He wants to handle it and not be told what to do by me. I'm still going to bring it up in counseling tomorrow and we will go from there.


He coudnt handle it right the 1st time, he's proven that so why should he get a 2nd time? He should be bending over backwards,whistling zippity do dah out his a$$ while jugling vases if thats what you need to him to do....


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> He said that he sees it being worse for us if I demand that he can't work with her. He wants to handle it and not be told what to do by me. I'm still going to bring it up in counseling tomorrow and we will go from there.


 Of course he said that. You are a DOORMAT and he is stomping his disgustingly filthy feet on you.

And you let him.


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## canttrustu

strugglinghusband said:


> He coudnt handle it right the 1st time, he's proven that so why should he get a 2nd time? He should be bending over backwards,whistling zippity do dah out his a$$ while jugling vases if thats what you need to him to do....


BINGO Struggling! He sounds like all of his concern is for HER. Thats typical WS behavior. He is still way too invested in her. He is bullying you Cris.


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## turnera

He told you that because he KNOWS you are chicken and will not leave him. HE has all the power and he LOVES having all the power. Having two women fight over him strokes his ego (and other parts) like nothing else. Why would he stop?

Until you wake up and realize he OWES YOU, and you DEMAND that he choose her or you, you will continue to be used and stomped on.


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## Cris7

Do people in EA that are made to go no contact resent the spouse that made them do it? I know in my mind all of you are right. I just am so scared of losing him, I love him. I don't want a divorce for my kids. I keep hoping that he is the exception, and it keeps turning out that he isn't. I am so torn. I don't want to do something I will regret. Thank you all for your advice. I do believe that it is good advice. I just have to somehow find the courage to really put my foot down.


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## canttrustu

Cris7 said:


> Do people in EA that are made to go no contact resent the spouse that made them do it? I know in my mind all of you are right. I just am so scared of losing him, I love him. I don't want a divorce for my kids. I keep hoping that he is the exception, and it keeps turning out that he isn't. I am so torn. I don't want to do something I will regret. Thank you all for your advice. I do believe that it is good advice. I just have to somehow find the courage to really put my foot down.


will he resent it? YES! Almost as much as YOU resent what he has done. ALMOST. But when the fog clears ,if he's anything like my H, he will be grateful. My h has actually thanked me for kicking his ass into NC. He admits it would only have digressed. 

Sometimes you have to willing to risk it ALL just to save it.


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## strugglinghusband

Cris7 said:


> Do people in EA that are made to go no contact resent the spouse that made them do it? I know in my mind all of you are right. I just am so scared of losing him, I love him. I don't want a divorce for my kids. I keep hoping that he is the exception, and it keeps turning out that he isn't. I am so torn. I don't want to do something I will regret. Thank you all for your advice. I do believe that it is good advice. I just have to somehow find the courage to really put my foot down.


Oh at 1st he's gonna be pissed off big time, here me loud and clear... it has to be treated like a drug addiction! because it is! read up on the affair fog here on TAM...You cant make him do anything, but you can damn well show him you wont stick around if he dosent go no contact, mean it and do it...show him you are a strong woman.... REAL men dont want a woman they can push around emotionaly, dont be that woman...He will respect your descion for making him go no contact, once he gets his head back on straight, but he wont be able to do that if there is still contact.

I know you are scared, who wouldnt be, its all so overwhelming, you can be strong, you can...you need to be not just for you but for your kids as well, they need to see their mother not put up with any BS and be treated like a doormat, if this was one of your childern in this situation and they asked you for advice what would you suggest?


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## canttrustu

strugglinghusband said:


> Oh at 1st he's gonna be pissed off big time, here me loud and clear... it has to be treated like a drug addiction! because it is! read up on the affair fog here on TAM...You cant make him do anything, but you can damn well show him you wont stick around if he dosent go no contact, mean it and do it...show him you are a strong woman.... REAL men dont want a woman they can push around emotionaly, dont be that woman...He will respect your descion for making him go no contact, once he gets his head back on straight, but he wont be able to do that if there is still contact.
> 
> I know you are scared, who wouldnt be, its all so overwhelming, you can be strong, you can...you need to be not just for you but for your kids as well, they need to see their mother not put up with any BS and be treated like a doormat, if this was one of your childern in this situation and they asked you for advice what would you suggest?


Yep, My H threw his phone, punched the wall.....Too flippin bad. He could have burned the house down as long as he went NC I didnt really give a good darn what kind of tantrum he threw. The more they bulk at the thought of NC, the bigger trouble youre in..


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## Cris7

Canttrustu, did your husband threaten to leave?


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## iheartlife

Cris7, look at this statement of his:



Cris7 said:


> Long story short he says he feels like *he owes it to the kids and me to give us a real try*.


and now look at this one:



Cris7 said:


> He also said that he would resent me for removing her from his life without him knowing if his feelings would just fade. That is his hope.


These two statements are entirely inconsistent.

YOU need to point this out to him.

Giving your marriage a "real try" will never work while he's trying to figure out if his "feelings" for this woman will "fade."

What are those feelings anyhow?

--sexual attraction

--infatuation

these are NOT love and will never be mistaken for love. They are the feelings anyone has at the START of any romantic relationship. They are NOT genuine and lasting.

So what he's really saying is:
"Let me date her by getting to spend time with her at work--which means seeing her on the job, and perhaps before, after, or during lunch as long as we sneak around and management doesn't catch on. After I date her, maybe I'll be ready to divorce you then. Or maybe I'll get bored with her, and later someone better will come along instead."


This attitude he has is EXTREMELY COMMON amongst cheaters. Cheaters are "cake eaters": they want it ALL. They truly believe that it's okay to date while they're married. He doesn't want her entirely right now--because why? He has to sample the goods first. Meanwhile, you are holding down the fort. You are his security blanket. You take care of the kids and the house. YOU ARE HIS BABYSITTER AND HOUSEKEEPER and probably also the laundress and food maker and grocery shopper and errand runner. He needs you to stay in that role while he "test drives" the OW.

Do NOT fall for this *BULLSH*T* because that is exactly what it is.


-------------------

You need to prep for that counseling meeting. Find that book, Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass. Get it at the library or download it if you have to. ALSO Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. You need to quickly educate yourself about infidelity as fast as possible and prep for that counselor meeting.

Prepare what you are going to say to the counselor. Figure it out now, be precise, concise. You need to figure out, what does that counselor know about infidelity. Take a temperature reading of whether that counselor believes that spouses cause infidelity or whether it's a CHOICE that he is making. You need to try to get that counselor on your side because you need an outside party leaning on him about his job situation.


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> Do people in EA that are made to go no contact resent the spouse that made them do it? I know in my mind all of you are right. I just am so scared of losing him, I love him. I don't want a divorce for my kids. I keep hoping that he is the exception, and it keeps turning out that he isn't. I am so torn. I don't want to do something I will regret. Thank you all for your advice. I do believe that it is good advice. I just have to somehow find the courage to really put my foot down.


 Yes, you need to find the courage. You can tell him in logical, unemotional terms that you are fighting to save your marriage. That you know he is jacked up on PEA chemicals (tell him to go research it), that you know he will be unable to separate his feelings for her as long as she is there, that all he has to tell his partners is that she didn't work out and they'll find a replacement (office workers are easy to replace and he'll go through a dozen in his career; this is just one more). 

Look at it this way: If he leaves you because you tell him you are hurt that he is keeping his mistress, do you REALLY want to keep that man?


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## canttrustu

Cris7 said:


> Canttrustu, did your husband threaten to leave?


Nope, if he had, I'd have packed him before it was completely off his lips. You dont cheat on me AND threaten to leave and have that just fall flat. IF he had even once threatened to leave me over HER- I'd have finished that thought ASAP.

I suspect your H is just bullying you to get his way. He has no intention of doing so IMO.


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## Grey Goose

Cris7 said:


> Do people in EA that are made to go no contact resent the spouse that made them do it? I know in my mind all of you are right. I just am so scared of losing him, I love him. I don't want a divorce for my kids. I keep hoping that he is the exception, and it keeps turning out that he isn't. I am so torn. I don't want to do something I will regret. Thank you all for your advice. I do believe that it is good advice. I just have to somehow find the courage to really put my foot down.


OK so let me help you with a possible future scenario and you decide what you want. 

Let him be in control with his EA and you can be sure it will end up in a PA and believe me you will not be able to get out of your head the images of him having sex with her, the constant questions popping into your brain regarding if she was better than you in bed, if he liked it, what did he do to her, how did he touch her and if she is sexier and more attractive than you and the movie of him playing house and footsie with her. If this is what you want then by all means go right ahead and render all power to him.

My whatever (stbxh or who knows) started his thing as an EA and I warned him about her (she worked her thing for almost a year before), he just decided to hide the messages and the rest. Then it became a full blown affair, with the whole story of me in a work party being neglected bc she was there, and even her H was there. 

We can turn blue here telling you what you have to do and what works, but you will only do it when you are ready to do so. Specifically when you get out of the shock stage. But I am telling you this so you know what is in your future and I am not a medium or palm reader, just someone who has been there and can tell you what will happen. In my case, now he cries and begs almost everyday and I have no idea what I feel except for the rage and anger in me for what me and my son have been through for a year or more.

Think long and hard if this is what you want and what your kids deserve. Work on yourself and focus on you, forget him. Ask yourself what you want and demand it!


----------



## iheartlife

Cris7 said:


> Do people in EA that are made to go no contact resent the spouse that made them do it? I know in my mind all of you are right. I just am so scared of losing him, I love him. I don't want a divorce for my kids. I keep hoping that he is the exception, and it keeps turning out that he isn't. I am so torn. I don't want to do something I will regret. Thank you all for your advice. I do believe that it is good advice. I just have to somehow find the courage to really put my foot down.


Yes, there's resentment. There is always resentment!

Someone who has allowed their mind and heart to get to a place where they think it's okay to court / date other women (remember, he's chasing this ONE, but he said _wom*E*n_) while staying married has already crossed a major line. He has already intellectually justified doing it. 

This type of activity is fun. He enjoys it immensely. It's like crack cocaine, buying a secret cell phone and sexting naughty things to this much younger woman who he shouldn't be approaching sexually at all because she's his employee / subordinate. His mind is desperate to preserve the status quo. He is going to pull every trick in the book to keep things just as they are right now. He is LYING to you about how he can handle it--he JUST SAID that he wants to find out if his feelings with her will fade.

What does that mean?? That he can't handle it. He already told you, he can't! This is totally 100% normal. This is par for the course where EAs are concerned.

My husband was in a long-term EA with a former co-worker. I got a lucky break in the sense that I caught it after they no longer worked together at all. I was not so lucky in that it took a very long time for his feelings for her to fade (I DID NOT wait around for this, it all happened without my knowledge because I wasn't educated about infidelity).

You have to stay strong and brave. Your marriage is lost if he's allowed to work with her so closely every day. Lost. I'm sorry, it's just the honest truth and it would do you no good whatsoever to sugarcoat it.

But you have a deeper problem that you need to address with the counselor: your husband's belief that it's okay to date other women while staying married to you. He's told you this several times in so many words. You need to get the counselor to hold his feet to the fire. Giving your marriage a chance means STAYING TRUE TO HIS VOWS which said "in sickness and in health, till death do us part." Did he mean those, when he said them?


----------



## turnera

iheartlife said:


> But you have a deeper problem that you need to address with the counselor: your husband's belief that it's okay to date other women while staying married to you. He's told you this several times in so many words. You need to get the counselor to hold his feet to the fire. Giving your marriage a chance means STAYING TRUE TO HIS VOWS which said "in sickness and in healthy, till death do us part." Did he mean those, when he said them?


 Quoted for truth!


----------



## iheartlife

Cris7, I just want to give you some words of encouragement. I know that what we're saying is hard and that you're scared. I get that. You have a lot of children--you were divorced before--it is heartbreaking to contemplate that your marriage is in such danger.

I identify with you because I likewise was not present in our marriage for a couple of years. My circumstances were different; I was not suffering from depression (was yours post-partum?), so I can't give that as the reason I was not the spouse I ought to have been. I was basically selfish, taking out my exhaustion and negative emotions on my husband, pushing him away instead of seeing him as my ally during a tough time financially with small kids.

But just like you, I was able to pull it together and to change. However, like you, I was confronted with the fact that improving myself and changing and becoming a better spouse--that did not do the trick! Instead of noticing and turning toward me because I was now ready to be the spouse of his dreams, he was already far down this path of enjoying the emotional attention of a younger former co-worker. He wasn't going to give that up once he'd latched onto it--not easily.

It really helps to see this as an addiction. Something he will not let go of without a LOT of kicking and screaming and yes, resentment. He's a baby and you're taking away his favorite toy. Screaming will be involved. But if that toy will hurt you, and him too, and a bunch of kids in the bargain, are you going to let him continue to play with it?


----------



## turnera

Plus, he's a doctor and doctors can get pretty entitled and 'higher than' others. We have to treat the ones here with kid gloves.

Own up to your side. Show him that you've learned a lot and that you'll NEVER take him for granted again and that you'll be busting your butt to become an amazing wife.

But then point out that he will miss out on all that if he doesn't get rid of his mistress because you will NOT share your husband with another woman. And when he blusters that he can 'handle' her being there, you just say 'maybe YOU can, but your WIFE can't.'


----------



## strugglinghusband

Also if you get some quack of a counselor that even hints that part of his affair may be your doing or that you played a roll in it somehow,someway and its all in the past and him working with her is ok....
get up tell them they suck and walk out..
I'm serious as a heart attack here, leave because they will do you no good, oh your husband would love this type of counsleor because it will make him feel justified.
Those type of counselors are out there....ask if they have a background on infidelity and if they have read "Not Just Friends" and prescribe to it.

My 1st IC guy was trying to get me to think I was partly to blame for my wifes E/A and it was ok for her to continue to work with him, since it was over and exposed to me...what a crack pot...my 2nd one was the same until I gave him "Not Just Friends" then he changed his tune. I still cant believe I payed these guys, they should have given me money to listen to thier horse ****.

It's not rocket science, not matter how good or bad of a spouse you were, it NEVER ever justifies someone lying and betraying you..thats all on them.

Everything you want is on the other side of fear.


----------



## canttrustu

turnera said:


> Plus, he's a doctor and doctors can get pretty entitled and 'higher than' others. We have to treat the ones here with kid gloves.
> 
> Own up to your side. Show him that you've learned a lot and that you'll NEVER take him for granted again and that you'll be busting your butt to become an amazing wife.
> 
> But then point out that he will miss out on all that if he doesn't get rid of his mistress because you will NOT share your husband with another woman. And when he blusters that he can 'handle' her being there, you just say 'maybe YOU can, but your WIFE can't.'


Yes. His wife cant and shouldnt. Its torture. No one who claims to love their spouse and to want to stay married should expect their BS to just "suck it up" or "wait to see if the feelings fade"...what if they dont??? then what? He Divorces you? Just cheats behind your back. Gets her pregnant?? this can and will get soooo much worse if it doesnt end ASAP. Even the WS who is truly dedicated to R would likely be unable to completely tune in while there is contact of ANY kind. Its driving in two lanes at once. VEry dangerous.


----------



## iheartlife

strugglinghusband said:


> Also if you get some quack of a counselor that even hints that part of his affair may be your doing or that you played a roll in it somehow,someway and its all in the past and him working with her is ok....
> get up tell them they suck and walk out..
> I'm serious as a heart attack here, leave because they will do you no good, oh your husband would love this type of counsleor because it will make him feel justified.
> Those type of counselors are out there....ask if they have a background on infidelity and if they have read "Not Just Friends" and prescribe to it.
> 
> My 1st IC guy was trying to get me to think I was partly to blame for my wifes E/A and it was ok for her to continue to work with him, since it was over and exposed to me...what a crack pot...my 2nd one was the same until I gave him "Not Just Friends" then he changed his tune. I still cant believe I payed these guys, they should have given me money to listen to thier horse ****.
> 
> It's not rocket science, not matter how good or bad of a spouse you were, it NEVER ever justifies someone lying and betraying you..thats all on them.
> 
> Everything you want is on the other side of fear.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## strugglinghusband

Cris your 1st post says that management knows about them, do you know this for a fact or your husband just told you this and you believe it?


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## iheartlife

strugglinghusband said:


> Cris your 1st post says that management knows about them, do you know this for a fact or your husband just told you this and you believe it?


I could use clarification on this also. I believe what he told her is that the office manager is aware, but the human resources (HR) department of the hospital itself does not know.

It's a really tough situation. He really cannot fire her without exposing himself to liability. I say that not as a precaution to prevent him from firing her (hey, natural consequences and all of that!) but rather that he probably fears her suing him and that is a separate reason for keeping her around (apart from being young and cute).


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## Cris7

So thank you all for your words of encouragement. As for his office manager, yes she knows, I spoke with her as well. The situation is is that he is a doctor in a hospital system. Basically an employee just the same as his assistant although he has more pull. According to his office manager she did not want to get HR involved because it would "get messy". She wanted to move her to another office in the building quietly but there was no where for her to go. She asked my H what he wanted to do, that she could fire her or try and have her transferred but HR would be involved. He told her that he could handle working with her. The coworker was asked if she wanted to continue working there or be transferred and she said she could handle staying there and she wouldn't have any contact with H outside of work.


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## canttrustu

iheartlife said:


> I could use clarification on this also. I believe what he told her is that the office manager is aware, but the human resources (HR) department of the hospital itself does not know.
> 
> It's a really tough situation. He really cannot fire her without exposing himself to liability. I say that not as a precaution to prevent him from firing her (hey, natural consequences and all of that!) but rather that he probably fears her suing him and that is a separate reason for keeping her around (apart from being young and cute).


Then he goes. Its that simple. He goes or she does. He can get another job somewhere else. Ask for a transfer to another office. Whatever. Iheart is right, its natural consequences. Like I said- my H went 6 mos unemployed but you know what, we're still Married. Had he stayed, no way we would be now.


----------



## iheartlife

Cris7 said:


> So thank you all for your words of encouragement. As for his office manager, yes she knows, I spoke with her as well. The situation is is that he is a doctor in a hospital system. Basically an employee just the same as his assistant although he has more pull. According to his office manager she did not want to get HR involved because it would "get messy". She wanted to move her to another office in the building quietly but there was no where for her to go. She asked my H what he wanted to do, that she could fire her or try and have her transferred but HR would be involved. He told her that he could handle working with her. The coworker was asked if she wanted to continue working there or be transferred and she said she could handle staying there and she wouldn't have any contact with H outside of work.


See, the office manager knows what I've been saying: if HR is involved, he will probably be asked to leave. That's because what he did is verbotten in corporations. Yes, it's rampant, but if the company is big enough and it goes high enough up a food chain, and gets a lawyer's attention, then something's going to give. That's because as I've said several times, SHE can sue the hospital, the individual practice group, and your husband (he might be covered as an employee, except that you aren't covered for stuff that you do in violation of company policy, and trust me, he violated policy). But not only can SHE sue, but also the other assistants in that group, secretaries, nurses, everyone who's subordinate to your husband, based on a hostile work environment.

So, I know this doesn't get you anywhere right now, but it seems to me that the office manager is part of your problem. That person is complicit in helping them stay together, whatever "assurances" were given that they would "handle" it.

QUESTION:

Were you able to read any of the OW's texts back to your H? Any communications at all? Any indication that she's receptive? It's tricky, because she may have felt she had to 'play along' in order to keep her boss (your H) happy. But what have you seen about this woman's side?


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## strugglinghusband

If the sh1t hits the fan the office manager could be in big trouble to,since she knew and didnt take it up the chain...seems like she's palying with fire to....dumbasses

He's a doctor, geez bet he would have a hard time finding another job ???


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## iheartlife

strugglinghusband said:


> If the sh1t hits the fan the office manager could be in big trouble to,since she knew and didnt take it up the chain...seems like she's palying with fire to....dumbasses
> 
> He's a doctor, geez bet he would have ahd time finding other work???


And here's the question--does the office manager know that he had a secret cell phone? DOES SHE KNOW THE ACTUAL CONTENT OF THE SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MESSAGES? Cris7--when you talked to the manager--did you share this with them?


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## canttrustu

chris7, I know youre scared. Been there. We all have. But we are telling you the truth when we say this wont end well. Please dont sit idle and watch your marriage fall apart.


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## Cris7

The manager knows that the texts were inappropriate. I didn't tell her the details, she didn't want to hear them. I only asked her if we needed to save the text messages that were on the phone. Yes I read every one of them. H didn't delete a single one. The manager said it wouldn't matter what was said in the texts. Just because she texted them doesn't mean she didn't feel like she needed to because she looked to him as her boss. Manager is also off on maternity leave so I think that has something to do with her brushing it under the rug. Co worker signed something stating that it was a mutual thing as well. Oh and the texts from her were playful in nature, sometimes suggestive like " if you knew what I was thinking you'd be having an affair right now and that wouldn't be good for anyone" and "too bad you are married" to which he replied "give me time"


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## canttrustu

It sounds to me like HE could get fired. Lets face it, he's her superior. He in fact SHOULD get fired. 

Have you found a competent MC yet? Is he willing to go? By competent I mean schooled in infidelity. Not going to rugsweep this. will encourage NC. You really need to ask some questions of the therapist BEFORE you take your H there and the therapist possibly undermines what you know to be right.


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## Cris7

I just called and set up a meeting with counselor before the meeting with H. I have been seeing this counselor individually and my H has seem him once as well so he knows our situation. I am going to ask him about his views on affairs though.


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## canttrustu

Cris7 said:


> I just called and set up a meeting with counselor before the meeting with H. I have been seeing this counselor individually and my H has seem him once as well so he knows our situation. I am going to ask him about his views on affairs though.


be very sure of this guy. He could make or break it for you.


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## strugglinghusband

Cris7 said:


> I just called and set up a meeting with counselor before the meeting with H. I have been seeing this counselor individually and my H has seem him once as well so he knows our situation. I am going to ask him about his views on affairs though.


Good idea, ask before you go...NO RUG SWEEPING!


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## iheartlife

Cris7 said:


> The manager knows that the texts were inappropriate. I didn't tell her the details, she didn't want to hear them. I only asked her if we needed to save the text messages that were on the phone. Yes I read every one of them. H didn't delete a single one. The manager said it wouldn't matter what was said in the texts. Just because she texted them doesn't mean she didn't feel like she needed to because she looked to him as her boss. Manager is also off on maternity leave so I think that has something to do with her brushing it under the rug. *Co worker signed something stating that it was a mutual thing as well*. Oh and the texts from her were playful in nature, sometimes suggestive like " if you knew what I was thinking you'd be having an affair right now and that wouldn't be good for anyone" and "too bad you are married" to which he replied "give me time"


Okay, so this has all very neatly been taken care of by the 3 people involved.

Unfortunately, your situation remains the same--made worse perhaps by the fact that she might have been returning his advances.

I'm glad to see you're preparing for the counselor.


Have you tried to get copies of the two books suggested, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass (a link to the google excerpts is in my signature, but it's not the complete book), and Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley (I suggest this book because it specifically discusses cutting off contact 100%).

Here is more reading for you:

How Should Affairs End:
Coping with Infidelity: The End (Part 2)



> *Never see or communicate with a former lover*
> 
> Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.
> 
> The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.
> 
> Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?
> 
> In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. *For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure*


Because this is the order of things to restore your marriage--your counselor needs to be on board with this, and your husband too, in order for things to work:

100% ending of contact

withdrawal from the addiction of the affair (effects wear off, allowing him to restore his feelings of being "in love" with you)

Restoring the marriage by working on it together, and via counseling

Overcoming YOUR resentment (because YOU are the one who was wronged here, NOT him).


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## Cris7

I did download the book Not Just Friends and read quite a bit. One part talked about how one person in an affair couldn't stop contact because of the job and it set up boundaries for that to still be successful. I'm not saying I agree with it, I was just going to have my H read it and I know he will focus on that.


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## turnera

You know what I would do, in your shoes? I would visit the office manager again and let her know that YOU are unhappy with the results and that if SHE doesn't get OW out of your husband's office, YOU will go visit HR, FOR her. Problem solved.


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## strugglinghusband

turnera said:


> You know what I would do, in your shoes? I would visit the office manager again and let her know that YOU are unhappy with the results and that if SHE doesn't get OW out of your husband's office, YOU will go visit HR, FOR her. Problem solved.


:iagree:
Yep if she didnt have the baby already, by saying that to her, it just might pop out on the spot..:rofl:


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 said:


> I did download the book Not Just Friends and read quite a bit. One part talked about how one person in an affair couldn't stop contact because of the job and it set up boundaries for that to still be successful. I'm not saying I agree with it, I was just going to have my H read it and I know he will focus on that.


Cris -- I just quickly logged on and have to pick up kids -- but I wish I could write more (good for others that I don't. I'm longwinded.) We read that passage in NJF's and it was an itchy spot for us.... Our N/C begins in absolute *this Thrs* -- DD Day was Feb 29th. It's HELL having the possibility of them seeing each other. My husband let's me know if he even hears her voice down the hall. It's been excruciating for both of us. We've both read "Not Just Friends". Our counselor is well schooled in it though she subscribes to another person's "method" (another topic. I do some 'calling her out') but it's been a long road to hoe. If you can avoid it -- get that wank out of his hospital or department now. She is complicit!! She's egging him on and feeding it. Don't believe the "We can handle it" bit. I'm telling you from experience -- both my H and the OW told me this in the beginning. It's mier-da (sorry mods) -- I had to expose and confront and blah blah....You'll accelerate the fog lifting if you can get her outta there. 

The folk who've posted here have laid down EXCELLENT advice (and I consider iheartlife's words like found amber in a dark bog. Seriously.) You're doing the right thing being tenacious. Don't let him stop u. I had so many ups and downs -- feeling guilty for some of my hardarse behavior. I don't give a rat's pattootie now. It had to be done. (And believe me, party's still not over ---)

I hope this helps but I just started a thread regarding workplace affairs that I hope folk who've experienced the damage there will post in so you (and others) can reference others threads and stories or even PM folk that can help you. 

Big big hugs to you.


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## iheartlife

I am bummed because I've read NJF a few times but have conveniently glossed over in my mind that workaround for having an affair partner at your job. Don't give him that hook.

In terms of reading material for your husband, I'd stick then with Dr. Harley, he is hardcore about:

100% ending of contact

leaving the job, even moving if that is what it takes.

again, here are the links:

Start here (how affairs begin)
Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)

each essay has a link at the bottom for the next section. The links to each section are on the main page under infidelity. I quoted above from the section, "How Should Affairs End?" which discussed Dr. Harley's belief that 100% end of contact is essential for restoration of the marriage. Again, that link is here: Coping with Infidelity: The End (Part 2)

Dr. Harley is extremely well known in the counseling world also, he wrote the bestselling book His Needs / Her Needs and if your counselor has never heard of him or that book, they are not a marriage counselor (if you are in the USA). I'm not saying you can't be a great counselor without it, but right now you need some proof from the get-go that this counselor knows what they are doing.

But, STILL ask if they know Shirley Glass, because she conducted a lot of original research and her book is the best one, most comprehensive out there. She is on the front lines of the cheater made the choice, don't blame the spouse.

Many counselors want to skip the hard part of confronting the cheater about their activities. They turn to you and say, Hey! He dumped her! He chose you! Stop being so paranoid! A good counselor will NOT let up--they will hold his feet to the fire. We were fortunate that our second counselor was like this (knew all about NJF and Harley). He pointed out that it was up to my husband to win ME back after his betrayal, proving to me that he was affirmatively choosing me and our marriage.


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## iheartlife

Cris7 said:


> The manager knows that the texts were inappropriate. I didn't tell her the details, she didn't want to hear them. I only asked her if we needed to save the text messages that were on the phone. Yes I read every one of them. H didn't delete a single one. The manager said it wouldn't matter what was said in the texts. Just because she texted them doesn't mean she didn't feel like she needed to because she looked to him as her boss. *Manager is also off on maternity leave so I think that has something to do with her brushing it under the rug*. Co worker signed something stating that it was a mutual thing as well. Oh and the texts from her were playful in nature, sometimes suggestive like " if you knew what I was thinking you'd be having an affair right now and that wouldn't be good for anyone" and "too bad you are married" to which he replied "give me time"


Okay. Can you answer one more question--because as we are focusing on these details other things jump out.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as I recall, the office manager is the one who knows, right? She's the supervisor watching over these two to make sure that "she can handle it" and "he can handle it." But right now she's gone--when did she leave? 

And so all this time these two are together with the only "boss" to be any the wiser about how they spend their time, and how they interact (from what can be seen, right, because he used a SECRET CELL PHONE), was this woman who isn't there right now?

(Not that the complicit office manager would make any difference, I'm just trying to understand your factual circumstances.)


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## Cris7

There are two supervisors that know also that are in the office, but I doubt they are watching them. I have a good friend who works in the office and she keeps an eye on things, but it really doesn't matter. They pretended before, they can do it again.


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## strugglinghusband

Cris7 said:


> There are two supervisors that know also that are in the office, but I doubt they are watching them. I have a good friend who works in the office and she keeps an eye on things,* but it really doesn't matter. They pretended before, they can do it again.*




Exactly, now your catching on, about how they (cheaters)operate.


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> There are two supervisors that know also that are in the office, but I doubt they are watching them. I have a good friend who works in the office and she keeps an eye on things, but it really doesn't matter. They pretended before, they can do it again.


 So what about the person who decided not to move her? Is that person still there? If so, go visit her tomorrow.


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## iheartlife

Cris7: can you tell us more about their communications and exchanges? You don't have to give them to us word by word. But I suspect that this information may be indicative of the likelihood they will continue this underground. (That was why I asked about it in my post above.)


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## iheartlife

Giving you a bump


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## Cris7

they talked about what it would be like if they were together. He mostly, she said she didn't think she was good enough. he said things like good morning sexy, beautiful once he called her my queen. I know they talked on the phone while he was away on business for over two hours and I know it got sexual because she sent a text saying "I just had the most intense orgasm. thank you" I know they talked on the phone on and off too for that month. Towards the end she said something like it seems like you are working on your marriage more than you say which is fine. he replied that it wasn't a matter of if it was more of when he was going to divorce me. When this all came out I sent her a text message letting her know I knew. My husband called in sick to work that day. She panicked and went to my friend who works there saying that she was innocent. that she was always for us working things out and she told him to work on his marriage. She also said that he asked her if she would be there when he was divorced and she told him she wasn't going to put her life on hold. He responded that there were other nurses/options for him. She told my friend to tell me that he had a secret phone and that she didn't think she was the only one he was texting. basically threw him under the bus. After DD I spent the day at a friends house. Came home and told him that he needed to pick which he wanted to do, be here in this marriage or leave. I then went on to tell her what I thought about her. That she was playing him for a fool. She was manipulative and she didn't care about him because she basically threw him under the bus when things went south. He said that before my talk he was set to tell me he wanted a divorce, but after my talk he changed his mind. That somewhere in the back of his mind he had a feeling she was just playing him but he ignored it because of the overwhelming urge to have sex with her. He called her that night and told her they couldn't continue talking outside of work and he told me he wanted to try with me. That's pretty much it.


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## canttrustu

Cris7 said:


> they talked about what it would be like *if they were together.* He mostly, she said she didn't think she was good enough. he said things like good morning sexy, beautiful once he called her my queen. I know they talked on the phone while he was away on business for over two hours and I know it got sexual because she sent a text saying "*I just had the most intense orgasm. thank you"* I know they talked on the phone on and off too for that month. Towards the end she said something like it seems like you are working on your marriage more than you say which is fine. he replied that it wasn't a matter of if it was more of *when he was going to divorce me.* When this all came out I sent her a text message letting her know I knew. My husband called in sick to work that day. She panicked and went to my friend who works there saying that she was innocent. that she was always for us working things out and she told him to work on his marriage. She also said that *he asked her if she would be there when he was divorced *and she told him she wasn't going to put her life on hold. He responded that there were other nurses/options for him. She told my friend to tell me that he had a secret phone and that she didn't think she was the only one he was texting. basically threw him under the bus. After DD I spent the day at a friends house. Came home and told him that he needed to pick which he wanted to do, be here in this marriage or leave. I then went on to tell her what I thought about her. That she was playing him for a fool. She was manipulative and she didn't care about him because she basically threw him under the bus when things went south. He said that before my talk he was set to tell me he wanted a divorce, but after my talk he changed his mind. That somewhere in the back of his mind he had a feeling she was just playing him but he ignored it because of the *overwhelming urge to have sex with her.* He called her that night and told her they couldn't continue talking outside of work and he told me he wanted to try with me. That's pretty much it.


sounds pretty intense to me. Anytime there is talk of sex and leaving you its dangerous. This confirms my thoughts- THEY CANNOT work together. NC is a MUST!


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## Cris7

Just to give an update. H came home on Tuesday and said that he talked to OW when they had a minute alone. He said "this is hard"
OW "what is hard?" H "seeing you. Don't you think it's hard?" OW "no not at all" H "so your ok with pretending nothing happened?" OW "nothing did happen, my life is a lot less stressful now". I asked H how he felt, he said sad and hurt. Seems like she wants nothing to do with him. She has two young kids, needs the health insurance. She didn't know how serious the consequences were. I talked to counselor before hand. He said that while he knows it would be hard for me, that he doesn't see how he could fire her at this point. Lawsuits and bad feelings would be likely. He said for now it was best to see how focused H is at working on things. Session with H went well. H admitted to knowing he could get fired when he started things with OW. MC wants a private session with H to explore his intense desire, thinks he could be at risk. At home H and I talked about his issues with women. He said he's never admitted it out loud but deep down he's always thought he's had a problem with women. He grew up in a tourist town in which summers were filled with attractive women and he was a bartender and had sex with a lot of women. He has no idea how many, close to 100 though. Says the feelings in the beginning of relationships are very compelling to him. Wants feelings to be redirected to me, not other women. Wants to explore issue with IC session. Says if it wasn't this OW it would be another assistant who would more than likely be as attractive. He needs to learn to deal with it and is looking at continuing working with her as a learning experience. I know he shouldn't have contact with her, but I also see what he is saying that if not her, it could be someone else. She seems not interested so for now that is where we stand. I'm not overly hopeful but am not to the point of making a demand of him just yet. I feel confident that if he leaves me I will be fine. I contacted a lawyer and know an estimate on what I would get financially and it's enough to take care of everything I need.


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## strugglinghusband

canttrustu said:


> sounds pretty intense to me. Anytime there is talk of sex and leaving you its dangerous. This confirms my thoughts- THEY CANNOT work together. NC is a MUST!


:iagree: x 100


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## canttrustu

As long as there is contact with her you cant believe a word he tells you. Sorry.


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## canttrustu

Cris7 said:


> Just to give an update. H came home on Tuesday and said that he talked to OW when they had a minute alone.* He said "this is hard*"
> OW "what is hard?"* H "seeing you. Don't you think it's hard?" *OW "no not at all" H "so your ok with pretending nothing happened?" OW "nothing did happen, my life is a lot less stressful now". I asked H how he felt, *he said sad and hurt*. Seems like she wants nothing to do with him. She has two young kids, needs the health insurance. She didn't know how serious the consequences were. I talked to counselor before hand. He said that while he knows it would be hard for me, that he doesn't see how he could fire her at this point. Lawsuits and bad feelings would be likely. He said for now it was best to see how focused H is at working on things. Session with H went well. H admitted to knowing he could get fired when he started things with OW. MC wants a private session with H to explore his intense desire, thinks he could be at risk. At home H and I talked about his issues with women. He said he's never admitted it out loud but deep down he's always thought he's had a problem with women. He grew up in a tourist town in which summers were filled with attractive women and he was a bartender and had sex with a lot of women. He has no idea how many, close to 100 though. Says the feelings in the beginning of relationships are very compelling to him. Wants feelings to be redirected to me, not other women. Wants to explore issue with IC session. Says if it wasn't this OW it would be another assistant who would more than likely be as attractive. He needs to learn to deal with it and is looking at continuing working with her as a learning experience. I know he shouldn't have contact with her, but I also see what he is saying that if not her, it could be someone else. She seems not interested so for now that is where we stand. I'm not overly hopeful but am not to the point of making a demand of him just yet. I feel confident that if he leaves me I will be fine. I contacted a lawyer and know an estimate on what I would get financially and it's enough to take care of everything I need.


HOLY SH*T!!! THats a fish if ever there was one! Also, from what he's telling you it sounds like he may have a sex/love addiction. IF thats true he needs some heavy duty IC and you should discuss what he told you with the IC ASAP. THIS is a BIG DEAL.


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## Cris7

A fish? He is going to set up a session with IC ASAP. I feel pretty sad because I feel like he has what you said, a sex/love addiction. Can theses types of people be helped? I just don't know. Oh and he looks at porn almost everyday on his phone I found out. Just really quickly, like when I am in shower or just before bed when he goes to get a drink.


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## strugglinghusband

Cris7 said:


> Just to give an update. H came home on Tuesday and said that he talked to OW when they had a minute alone. He said "this is hard"
> OW "what is hard?" H "seeing you. Don't you think it's hard?" OW "no not at all" H "so your ok with pretending nothing happened?" OW "nothing did happen, my life is a lot less stressful now". I asked H how he felt, he said sad and hurt. Seems like she wants nothing to do with him. She has two young kids, needs the health insurance. She didn't know how serious the consequences were. I talked to counselor before hand. He said that while he knows it would be hard for me, that he doesn't see how he could fire her at this point. Lawsuits and bad feelings would be likely. He said for now it was best to see how focused H is at working on things. Session with H went well. H admitted to knowing he could get fired when he started things with OW. MC wants a private session with H to explore his intense desire, thinks he could be at risk. At home H and I talked about his issues with women. He said he's never admitted it out loud but deep down he's always thought he's had a problem with women. He grew up in a tourist town in which summers were filled with attractive women and he was a bartender and had sex with a lot of women. He has no idea how many, close to 100 though. Says the feelings in the beginning of relationships are very compelling to him. Wants feelings to be redirected to me, not other women. Wants to explore issue with IC session. *Says if it wasn't this OW it would be another assistant who would more than likely be as attractive*.
> Tell him to hire a male assistant, problem solved until he gets his sh1t straight in IC
> 
> *He needs to learn to deal with it and is looking at continuing working with **her as a learning experience.*
> Just like a drug addict, oh yeah they can maintain being around crack all day
> 
> I know he shouldn't have contact with her, but I also see what he is saying that if not her, it could be someone else.* She seems not **interested*
> But he is still interested, theres the problem
> 
> so for now that is where we stand. I'm not overly hopeful but am not to the point of making a demand of him just yet. I feel confident that if he leaves me I will be fine. I contacted a lawyer and know an estimate on what I would get financially and it's enough to take care of everything I need.


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> she told him she wasn't going to put her life on hold. He responded that there were other nurses/options for him.


I really really really don't like this. Are you SURE he's not playing you? Is he going to take a polygraph?


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## strugglinghusband

Cris7 said:


> *A fish*? He is going to set up a session with IC ASAP. I feel pretty sad because I feel like he has what you said, a sex/love addiction. Can theses types of people be helped? I just don't know. Oh and he looks at porn almost everyday on his phone I found out. Just really quickly, like when I am in shower or just before bed when he goes to get a drink.


 he was fishing for her, throwing out some little bits of bait, talking about them etc to see if she would take it and where it would go.


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## canttrustu

strugglinghusband said:


> he was fishing for her, throwing out some little bits of bait, talking about them etc to see if she would take it and where it would go.


Yes, IOW trying to pick back up where they left off....Im afraid you've got big problems here. And the fact that he told you if it wasnt her, it would be someone else.....OH MAN and porn EVERY day. YOU need to talk to that IC pronto!

This is hugely personal but I ask for a reason- what is YOUR sex life like? Is he interested? Is he up to snuff? Dont get more personal than your comfortable with but it will help us understand him.


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## Cris7

Turnera, I'm not sure of anything at this point. I can tell you that before he was caught my gut told me he wasn't being truthful. I never fully believed him, I could tell from his eyes. They were just off. Ever since he was caught my gut tells me he is telling me the truth. His eyes are different. Another thing he says is that he feels dead inside, not happy and that he doesn't matter. All that matters is that he provides money for me and the boys. Hopefully IC will help him.

Thanks for clearing that up struggling. I thought that too, she didn't take the bait.


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## turnera

Are you demanding a polygraph?


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## Cris7

CTU, ever since he gave the ILYBNILWY speech sex has been amazing. New positions, more oral more passion. I was suspicious right away but enjoyed the ride.  since I have lost weight and am looking really good physically, he's been making comments that I look hot and he brings me into the room for quickies. He has no problem getting or keeping an erection, but he has problems finishing. He has been lighting candles the last few weeks so he can see me and is very sensual. Frequency is pretty much everyday.


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## Cris7

turnera said:


> Are you demanding a polygraph?


No not at this time. I honestly never thought of it.


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## canttrustu

Cris7 said:


> CTU, ever since he gave the ILYBNILWY speech sex has been amazing. New positions, more oral more passion. I was suspicious right away but enjoyed the ride.  since I have lost weight and am looking really good physically, he's been making comments that I look hot and he brings me into the room for quickies. He has no problem getting or keeping an erection, but he has problems finishing. He has been lighting candles the last few weeks so he can see me and is very sensual. Frequency is pretty much everyday.


So- he gave you ILYBNILWY and THEN the sex got better? Are you SURE it was only an EA? Problems finishing could be too much masterbation bc of porn. How old is he?


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## strugglinghusband

canttrustu said:


> So- he gave you ILYBNILWY and THEN the sex got better? Are you SURE it was only an EA? Problems finishing could be too much masterbation bc of porn. How old is he?


Or he couldnt finish because he felt guilty?


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## Cris7

I am as sure as I can be that it wasn't physical. None of the texts suggested that it did. he said that being physical was a place he wouldnt take it because of his job and he wouldn't be able to look at me in the eye if he did.He says he doesn't masturbate to the porn, he prefers to orgasm during sex. He is 39. The not being able to finish has happened before. He can get distracted by his mind easily, like if he thinks about finishing, he can't.


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## strugglinghusband

*when confronted he was very remorseful said he didn't love her, he just wanted to screw her.*

from your 1st post.


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## canttrustu

Cris7 said:


> I am as sure as I can be that it wasn't physical. None of the texts suggested that it did. he said that being physical was a place he wouldnt take it because of his job and he wouldn't be able to look at me in the eye if he did.He says he doesn't masturbate to the porn, he prefers to orgasm during sex. He is 39. The not being able to finish has happened before. He can get distracted by his mind easily, like if he thinks about finishing, he can't.


Hmmmm. I dont know. Guess the guys would have to weigh in here but I would think if he's THAT distracted he'd have trouble maintaining his erection as well....

Anyway, Yah, I think you really gotta talk to that IC about what he has said to you about how it would be someone else and how he likes that high of a new relationship. Those both speak to love/sex addictions if they are out of control and are interfering with his life and it seems they are. Print some stuff out and let him read it. at least he may start becoming aware of the fact that he has issues and start trying to control them until he can get some help.


----------



## turnera

Cris7 said:


> No not at this time. I honestly never thought of it.


 Big mistake. So...he gets to keep his OW around him all day every day, he gets to keep his wife at home playing house for him, his wife has demanded NO changes from him except that he has to go to IC once in a while and pretend to be contrite...

Looks like he's got it made.


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## Cris7

I know I come off as passive and weak. I just don't feel strong enough right now to do anything. Between the kids and the stress H is putting me through I feel like I am going to have a nervous breakdown. Then put the holidays on top of it. I can't eat, I've lost 38lbs in 2 months. I can't sleep. I feel like a zombie all day and then pull it together whenever H is around to make things good. I know I am in denial, but I really want to believe him. I love him so much. He is not the same person I married. He has always been so logical and together, always figuring out the best thing to do. Now he can't make a decision to save his life. The more I read about sex/love addiction the more it sounds like him. It is like he allowed himself to go down that path of fantasizing about sex with other people and now it's starting to get out of control.


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## turnera

Cris, who have you told?


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## turnera

And why on EARTH do you try to pull it together when he is around? That's HIS job, dammit!


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## turnera

So, as with ANY addict, what does the other person have to do, to HELP that person?

She has to get TOUGH and set extreme rules. Can't you at least do that? To help him?


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## iheartlife

Hope1964's signature has some resourced for sex addicts (click through, and then find the links on that page).

Talk About Marriage - View Profile: Hope1964

His behavior and the obsessive quality of it sound strange and "off" to me. 

I think the solution is identifying a way for her to move somewhere else--leaning on the office management with the threat of telling HR--and let them sort out where she goes. Then, he is only allowed to work with a male assistant.


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## iheartlife

Cris7 said:


> Just to give an update. H came home on Tuesday and said that he talked to OW when they had a minute alone. He said "this is hard"
> OW "what is hard?" H "seeing you. Don't you think it's hard?" OW "no not at all" H "so your ok with pretending nothing happened?" OW "nothing did happen, my life is a lot less stressful now". I asked H how he felt, he said sad and hurt. Seems like she wants nothing to do with him.


Okay, now you see right there? He can't handle it! What a joke for him to ever suggest such a thing. You can see that it was just another way of maintaining contact with her.

Tell the office manager about this. I mean, really!



> She has two young kids


So ask your H--is he going to become their stepfather? Where did he really see a relationship like this going? What if he had knocked her up? He didn't think this through at all. Juvenile, selfish behavior from start to finish.



> I talked to counselor before hand. He said that while he knows it would be hard for me, that he doesn't see how he could fire her at this point. Lawsuits and bad feelings would be likely. He said for now it was best to see how focused H is at working on things.


Tell the counselor the latest, if you haven't. This arrangement isn't going to work. This is just one of those situations where it's his job or the marriage. HE IS THE ONE WHO DID THIS TO THE TWO OF YOU. HE NEEDS TO RECTIFY IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. 



> MC wants a private session with H to explore his intense desire, thinks he could be at risk.


 No SH!T! I am glad the counselor sees it this way, even though he has no good advice on how to fix things since he's basically saying "lump it," he gets to continue to work with her!! The counselor CAN'T have it both ways.



> At home H and I talked about his issues with women. He said he's never admitted it out loud but deep down he's always thought he's had a problem with women. He grew up in a tourist town in which summers were filled with attractive women and he was a bartender and had sex with a lot of women. He has no idea how many, close to 100 though. Says the feelings in the beginning of relationships are very compelling to him.


 Very sex addict-like.

*Have you ever had a reason to doubt him in your relationship since you've met him?*



> Wants feelings to be redirected to me, not other women. Wants to explore issue with IC session. Says if it wasn't this OW it would be another assistant who would more than likely be as attractive.


Here, I think he is being honest, although it's such a frightening thing to say.



> He needs to learn to deal with it and is looking at continuing working with her as a learning experience.


 Until he said this, and you'll pardon me while I :rofl:. He needs to copyright this line and sell it for $$ to other cheaters. I am not kidding. I think there are a few gullible spouses out there who might actually believe such a thing. Me, it just p*sses me off that he has the NERVE to take advantage of your vulnerable situation.



> I feel confident that if he leaves me I will be fine. I contacted a lawyer and know an estimate on what I would get financially and it's enough to take care of everything I need.


Smart! Well done! This is exactly what you needed to hear. Many times the fear of the unknown will simply paralyze you. Remember this when you feel weak and you want to give in.



In short: he cannot work with her any more. I would alert office management to his latest communications with her and the explict nature of the texts. Looking back now, I think that office manager didn't want to see the texts IN ORDER TO ABSOLVE HERSELF FROM SOME LIABILITY. If she actually knew what the texts said, she would be kicking things up a notch in terms of being part of a sexual harrassment lawsuit. ROPE THE OFFICE MANAGERS IN so that they cannot continue to aid and abet this appalling situation.


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## canttrustu

iheartlife said:


> Okay, now you see right there? He can't handle it! What a joke for him to ever suggest such a thing. You can see that it was just another way of maintaining contact with her.
> 
> Tell the office manager about this. I mean, really!
> 
> So ask your H--is he going to become their stepfather? Where did he really see a relationship like this going? What if he had knocked her up? He didn't think this through at all. Juvenile, selfish behavior from start to finish.
> 
> Tell the counselor the latest, if you haven't. This arrangement isn't going to work. This is just one of those situations where it's his job or the marriage. HE IS THE ONE WHO DID THIS TO THE TWO OF YOU. HE NEEDS TO RECTIFY IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
> 
> No SH!T! I am glad the counselor sees it this way, even though he has no good advice on how to fix things since he's basically saying "lump it," he gets to continue to work with her!! The counselor CAN'T have it both ways.
> 
> Very sex addict-like.
> 
> *Have you ever had a reason to doubt him in your relationship since you've met him?*
> 
> Here, I think he is being honest, although it's such a frightening thing to say.
> 
> Until he said this, and you'll pardon me while I :rofl:. He needs to copyright this line and sell it for $$ to other cheaters. I am not kidding. I think there are a few gullible spouses out there who might actually believe such a thing. Me, it just p*sses me off that he has the NERVE to take advantage of your vulnerable situation.
> 
> Smart! Well done! This is exactly what you needed to hear. Many times the fear of the unknown will simply paralyze you. Remember this when you feel weak and you want to give in.
> 
> 
> 
> In short: he cannot work with her any more. I would alert office management to his latest communications with her and the explict nature of the texts. Looking back now, I think that *office manager didn't want to see the texts IN ORDER TO ABSOLVE HERSELF FROM SOME LIABILITY*. If she actually knew what the texts said, she would be kicking things up a notch in terms of being part of a sexual harrassment lawsuit. *ROPE THE OFFICE MANAGERS IN so that they cannot continue to aid and abet this appalling situation.*




:iagree::iagree::iagree: Your H is playing you for a fool. Dont be played.


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## Pepper123

Cris... Please consider telling the office manager; the livelihood of your family is at stake. 

Even if nothing physical ever happened between the two of you, his heart is not completely devoted to your marriage... You are leaving the door open for future marital issues.


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## turnera

Pepper123 said:


> Cris... Please consider telling the office manager; the livelihood of your family is at stake.


As well as all the other employees in that office, if she sues and they all get fired.


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## canttrustu

strugglinghusband said:


> *when confronted he was very remorseful said he didn't love her, he just wanted to screw her.*
> 
> from your 1st post.


Right. IF he ONLY ONLY ONLY wanted to screw her why is he "sad and hurt?" why is this "so hard"??????


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## turnera

And he NOW says he never wanted to have sex. Because he thinks that's what you wanted to hear.


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## canttrustu

THE very definition of GASLIGHTING. Giving you all these conflicting stories/answers so you'll be too confused to know which end is up.


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## Cris7

Just an update. H is going to first IC session tonight to discuss his possible addiction. He has had a complete change of emotion. He came home from work one day announcing that he didn't have that pit in his stomach feeling when he saw his assistant and that it was like it was before they took it to the next level. From what I've read about love addiction, once the person stops showing interest the addict can switch quickly. He told me he's starting to feel a little something for me and that he has the urge to flirt with me and that I looked really good lately ( I have been dressing nicer etc.). One thing we have going for us is that we communicate really well. Everything is changing/shifting that I don't know which way is up. He has been very attentive lately. I don't know. I'm curious to see how IC goes for him. He's telling me things he likes and that we can't let things get back to the way they were if we are going to move forward. It's all so confusing. My guard is still up, but I'm trying to be positive. Thank you all for your great advice.


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## iheartlife

Thank you for the update.

I'm glad to hear he's starting IC.

I am sorry to put it this way...but explain to us what happens when the pendulum swings the other way and she shows him attention again.

Also: "we can't let things get to where they were" implies to me that he is blaming you somehow for his outrageously inappropriate behavior with his employee. 

He should be so ashamed of cornering this young single mom who desperately needs that job. Whether she responded or not. Are you seeing any admission at all on his part that this was wrong (not to mention, still actionable in a court of law).


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## Cris7

Yes he admits it was wrong. He tells me all of the time how sorry he is. When he says that we can't let it get back to the way things were he means on both our parts. He is being more open about what he wants and needs from me and I am with him. As far as her showing him attention that's an unknown. He says he doesn't know for sure what would happen, he can't see into the future. All he can say is how he feels now, and he says he doesn't feel that way towards her. He says "that ship has sailed" and he feels that she wants to put it behind them as well.


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## turnera

What is he doing to give you utter transparency? Do you have a GPS on his phone? Are you dropping in on the office unannounced? Has he removed all passwords? Has he signed a post-nup agreement so that if he gets caught cheating again, you get everything? No? Then he's snowing you.


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 said:


> As far as her showing him attention that's an unknown. He says he doesn't know for sure what would happen, he can't see into the future. All he can say is how he feels now, and he says he doesn't feel that way towards her.


I'm glad he's being transparent, and like Turnera wrote that would include passwords, etc. --- a complete open book. You should have access to all of him.

What concerns me is the bit above....he's leaving an open door imo with the verbiage "...doesn't know for sure what would happen [in the future]" That means if she turns towards him he could possibly be psyched and they'd be off to the races. What is he doing to prove that your marriage is not Plan B? 

And I'm so, so sorry you're dealing with this -- but glad regarding counseling. That work scenario's gotta go one way or another. (It took us 8 months. NOT ideal!)


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## canttrustu

thesunwillcomeout said:


> I'm glad he's being transparent, and like Turnera wrote that would include passwords, etc. --- a complete open book. You should have access to all of him.
> 
> What concerns me is the bit above....he's leaving an open door imo with the verbiage "...doesn't know for sure what would happen [in the future]" That means if she turns towards him he could possibly be psyched and they'd be off to the races. What is he doing to prove that your marriage is not Plan B?
> 
> And I'm so, so sorry you're dealing with this -- but glad regarding counseling. That work scenario's gotta go one way or another. (It took us 8 months. NOT ideal!)


Not ideal???? Its pure misery. sun suffered it out for 8 mos after Dday! I suffered it out for 3 mos after dday. Miserable all around. My h didnt even BEGIN to come out of the fog until there was NO CONTACT for a good period of time. Even though there was nothing going on between them for those 3 mos- he still had to interact with her. It still keeps the hornets nest all stirred up.


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## thesunwillcomeout

canttrustu said:


> Not ideal???? Its pure misery. sun suffered it out for 8 mos after Dday! I suffered it out for 3 mos after dday. Miserable all around. My h didnt even BEGIN to come out of the fog until there was NO CONTACT for a good period of time. Even though there was nothing going on between them for those 3 mos- he still had to interact with her. It still keeps the hornets nest all stirred up.


Okay -- she's right! It was miserable. Awful. Terrible. Not simply "Not Ideal". And we had things in place to keep me in the loop. Even still hearing about her in the office would sometimes trigger me something fierce. It's only been one week since she's been gone and I can't even tell you what it's like to not have the daily report -- even if the report was no contact! And, every day I'm aware and looking for subtle signs that he may be in withdrawal. He is depressed and feeling low because of some financial hits on the homefront, car issues, etc, and of course I wonder if behind that is also a subconcious reaction to her not being in the office. It would be perfectly natural. Too bad it didn't happen earlier.

Your husband had (has) a serious infatuation with this assistant. It's not that easy for the ship to sail. So sorry.


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## iheartlife

Cris7--take a look at this!! And show it to that office manager and your husband! This sort of thing smacks as gender discrimination to me, and I think it's a way of punishing the woman (the subordinate) vs. the man (the boss), so I disagree with this lawsuit as legal precedent. But, you should use it to your advantage.


Iowa court rules boss can fire employee he considers an 'irresistable attraction'

A dentist acted legally when he fired an assistant that he found attractive simply because he and his wife viewed the woman as a threat to their marriage, the all-male Iowa Supreme Court ruled Friday.


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## thesunwillcomeout

Any updates?


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## Cris7

Sorry it has been so long since I updated. So my husband has continued to work with this woman. It has been hard on me, there are good days and bad days, but overall I'm dealing with it well. Things between my husband and I have been really really good. We laugh and joke. We are still having incredible sex and he is complimenting me a lot. I have been taking really good care of myself, the house and the kids, but I put him and our marriage first. We have had a few talks about what triggered all of this and how he was able to "snap out of it" so quickly. The way I understand it, he became more and more unattracted to me and began resenting me because of how miserable I was. I don't blame him. He worked hard and I was a nagging b*tch. Now I'm not saying that that is an excuse for what he did, it isn't. I do however understand how he could have fallen out of love with me. I have made a lot of changes for the better and he notices and appreciates them. He also is doing more to help me around the house and his mood is much better. He says he has no urge to flirt with anyone anymore and that all of the lustful feelings for the assistant are gone. He just wants her to stay working for him because she is a really good assistant. He is very open with the interactions he has with her. he apologizes often for putting me through everything. i no longer have that sinking feeling in the bottom of my stomach. I am not so dumb as to think we are completely out of the woods. It's only been 2 months. I know that there is a chance that he could switch back just as quickly, but I really don't think it would be with this particular person. All I can do is take it day by day and always do my best. As strange as it sounds, it feels like our relationship is stronger now than it has ever been. I hope it continues this way. Thank you all for your advice.


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## Cris7

Bump


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## Silverlining

Congrats!


Is your husband still attending IC? 

It takes years to move past infidelity. Keep on truckin'


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## turnera

Are you dropping in at his office unannounced? Letting his coworkers SEE his wife? This is imperative.


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## Cris7

Yes I have dropped in a few times. I have made small talk with her also. We also went to the holiday party in December at which we said hello to her and her boyfriend. 90% of the people who work at his office know me. I still have my two good friends that work there too. I'm keeping positive thoughts in my head and trying not question him too much. I can't imagine it would be pleasant to have your mistake brought up over and over, but to his credit he comes up to me randomly, gives me a hug and tells me how sorry he is for what he did and he thanks me for not giving up on us. That is what I cling to whenever I have negative thoughts creep back in.


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## turnera

Sounds good. Just keep an eye out for 'slips' - those little teeny tiny movements toward less transparency or less focus on you; they will come. Stamp them out quick, to set the tone.


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 Thanks for the update...It sounds like things are going well. Please do keep your eyes and ears open. My husband now admits that after DDay and he was practicing transparency with me at work that he DID still have a hard time seeing her in the office. When he'd get a thought he'd push it out, but it was still there. He had to go to great lengths to avoid her. And now, since she still freelances for the company there's always the possibility she could pop back into the office. Our policy, if that happens, is that he calls me and stays on the phone with me until the coast is clear. (He also closes his door.) I don't know how your husband can continue to work with her and not have those old twinges come back up, even if momentarily, but I am glad that you all are working on creating a strong bond to make her obsolete. But please, still watch. I'm not saying be afraid, but be wise.


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 said:


> He says he has no urge to flirt with anyone anymore and that all of the lustful feelings for the assistant are gone. He just wants her to stay working for him because she is a really good assistant. He is very open with the interactions he has with her. he apologizes often for putting me through everything.


Cris7 -- a couple more questions...I'm so sorry.

1. Are you doing anything to verify that what he's telling you is true? Such as -- is the Manager still aware and watching them? Do you have someone at the hospital who can verify?

2. Is he still in IC? Two months would be a short time to work out any kind of sex addiction if he had/has one.

3. I know you downloaded "Not Just Friends" and read it or parts of it. Did your husband ever read it? 

Again, I'm so glad things are going well between the two of you and that you've made positive changes yourself (aren't we all in need of that? Your side of the story sounds so familiar (- but the reality is it was a full-on affair of one sort or another with the sexting, etc and him having continued contact working with her has got to be hell for you. Does he express how he'd like to change that and ameliorate your pain? Does he say that he'll go to any lengths necessary to remove the source of pain (her)? Can you have that type of discussion with him? It may be very, very hard to do that, but I have to tell you the fact that they still work together and everything is back to the way it was seems impossible to me. After people cross that line, it can never go back fully to the way it was. There's always that nagging knowledge. 

My father was a physician and had an affair with one of the nurses on his staff. After my mother's confrontation, that woman was GONE! (I was only 5 and I knew what was going on.) Years later it seemed my father had gone back to the well with another person on his staff, or at least it was heading in that direction. What happened to that woman? Another confrontation and GONE. My Mom is like a tigress over her family. (But her first marriage failed because of infidelity so she fought with all her might for her second.) 

Please, watch. And continue with all of the good work and loving him.


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## Cris7

Not sure if anyone will respond, but I wanted to give an update. H and I had been doing really well from dec. to beginning of feb. he started becoming distant again. I pushed him to talk and he said he's not sure why, but that he's lost that connection with me again. He finds everything I do annoying, and he doesn't know what is wrong with him. I asked him if he was connecting with OW again and he said no. He said he recognized a pattern with himself and how he never ended a relationship without having another one started. He says he promised himself that if we don't work out that he is going to be alone for a while. He can't have the same pattern happen again. He says I'm doing everything right, he just can't figure out why he's not feeling it. I have read about the 180 and have started pulling back a little like not saying I love you as much and not hanging around him as much. Just kind of giving him some space. I am also going to take piano lessons. It's something I've always wanted to do. He noticed the little changes and said he wishes we never talked about it because he didn't want me to change anything. I told him I didn't want to smother him but that I was in it as long as he was willing to try. My worry is this. My husband is very driven by touch. He loves to be touched, snuggled, things like that. If I pull back on that will that make him think "well she's not into me, we are like roommates" and just confirm what he feels? I also don't want to come on to strong and have him thinking" ugh she is so into me but I'm not feeling it" and feel guilty. Anyone have any thoughts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04

Have you verified in any way that there is indeed no contact with OW besides asking him?? Check phone records,email, etc if you can....?

I don't know, my first suspicion he is in contact with OW......especially if his behavior/attitude is similar towards you.

Are you two willing to go to MC or have you been already?


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## thesunwillcomeout

vi_bride04 said:


> Have you verified in any way that there is indeed no contact with OW besides asking him?? Check phone records,email, etc if you can....?
> 
> I don't know, my first suspicion he is in contact with OW......especially if his behavior/attitude is similar towards you.
> 
> Are you two willing to go to MC or have you been already?


I have to agree with this...my first thought was that he was back in it. Don't take his word for it. Verify. I'm assuming he still works with her?

Be the best you can be for yourself. You can't nice him out of his "thing" he's going through. In fact that tends to make WS's take the BS for granted even more. I'm so sorry you're going through this. If he still works with her though and there weren't consequences then I'm not surprised. 

See if you can get info!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband

Chris is he still working with her?


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## Cris7

Yes he still works with her. I have been monitoring cell phone and emails and nothing alarming. He and I have had a few conversations about how he feels about her. He told me that through counseling he realized it wasn't about her as a person. He just needed that feeling of someone attractive being attracted to him. He realized that it is a problem he has and he's trying to figure out how to deal with it. He says he cares about her like a good friend. He has always become friends with the people he works with. It's in his personality. He needs to feel liked and have a fun work atmosphere. After they stopped talking outside of work, she got back with her boyfriend and moved him in with her. She seems to have moved on. I'm not stupid as to think there won't still be some flashbacks or twangs of the feelings he had for her. When I talk to him about her he assures me that he isn't having those feelings for her or anyone else. He says that he has been focusing on us bit he can't figure out what is wrong with him. My gut is telling me that he is being truthful. He also admitted to me that he has tremendous amount of guilt and that he thinks maybe that is getting in the way of him feeling connected to me. He doesn't talk to his parents as much either because of how embarrassed he feels. I just don't know if pulling back and giving him space is the right thing to do or if continuing the way I was is right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband

Chris, how do YOU feel about him still working with her, Someone he had and still has feelings for (even though now he cares for her
just as a good friend), Does that bother you?

Is he going to IC? are you two going to MC?


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## turnera

Why aren't you in therapy?


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## Cris7

The first couple of months were hard. I guess right now I've just come to terms with it. I don't like it, but at least as long as they work together they have the threat of losing their jobs if they started something. I really believe that my husband has some deep rooted issues with getting his self worth from women finding him attractive. We both went to counseling together and individually. Counselor said that we were on the right track. Told my husband that he had a good understanding of what was going on within himself, he just needs to figure things out for himself. I am focusing more on getting a life for myself. Taking piano lessons and a photography class for starters. I think I need to get a I don't give a s**t attitude. I just need to do what is best for my kids and me. I will still be loving and affectionate towards him but I can't keep putting all of my energy into figuring him out. I really think he is in a MLC
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband

Cris7 said:


> The first couple of months were hard. I guess right now I've just come to terms with it. I don't like it, but at least as long as they work together they have the threat of losing their jobs if they started something. I really believe that my husband has some deep rooted issues with getting his self worth from women finding him attractive. We both went to counseling together and individually. Counselor said that we were on the right track. Told my husband that he had a good understanding of what was going on within himself,* he just **needs to figure things out for himself*. I am focusing more on getting a life for myself. Taking piano lessons and a photography class for starters. I think I need to get a I don't give a s**t attitude. I just need to do what is best for my kids and me. I will still be loving and affectionate towards him but I can't keep putting all of my energy into figuring him out. I really think he is in a MLC
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His counselor said he needs to figue this out on his own?
Is your husband upset that you are doing things for you(piano lessons etc)?


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## Cris7

Yes my husband is extremely intelligent and knows how to get people to see things his way. He was basically saying the things the counselor was going to suggest before the counselor did. He seems ok with me doing things for myself. He smiled and said that sounds like a good idea. Later that night he came up to me when I was sitting in the couch and kneeled in front of me and put his head in my lap and hugged me. He hasn't done that in a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## foolme2x

Cris7 said:


> I think I need to get a I don't give a s**t attitude. I just need to do what is best for my kids and me. I will still be loving and affectionate towards him but I can't keep putting all of my energy into figuring him out. I really think he is in a MLC
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think this is a good idea. Being the responsible partner, the one who tries to fix the other one's issues, is a losing battle. It puts you in the parent role. Took me a while to figure that one out.


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## Cris7

It seems crazy to me, but since I have backed off a little H seems to be more attentive. It has to be all in my head right? I know this is going to be a rollercoaster ride for a while, but that nagging feeling in the pit of my stomach is gone. I still have my guard up, but I'm feeling better. I am also confident that if he does leave me, I will be financially fine. I talked to a lawyer who put it all out there for me and I will be in a very good position. I don't want it to get to that point, but it helps to know that if it does, I will be ok.


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## turnera

No, it's basic psychology. You chasing him fed his ego. You backing off hurts his ego, so he pulls closer to you, trying to get you to lean back in. And being willing to let go of him makes you the most attractive yet.


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## Cris7

Ok so last night H initiated being intimate. He was very fulfilling of my needs first and it was amazing. Afterwards as we were falling asleep I commented on how I forgot to put lotion on his back. He said "yeah it's cause you don't love me" in a joking tone. I said of course I love you silly and gave him a kiss. Now I haven't been saying love you to him like I used to but it's only been a few days. I know it's psychology but isn't it happening quickly? Should I start saying love you again or keep a safe distance?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Keep a distance. It was appropriate in the moment, but not in day to day interactions.


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## thesunwillcomeout

turnera said:


> Keep a distance. It was appropriate in the moment, but not in day to day interactions.


This!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

I think you have sold yourself too cheaply. Your H has been 'giving you the gift' of his wonderful self in the marriage. If that's OK with you, then fine. But try to remember that the two of you are not joined at the hip & he sounds completely capable of not caring one whit about you if the grass ever truly looks greener somewhere else.

I would do at least a mild 180 just for myself if I were in your shoes. Try to rediscover that your life is for you to live for yourself, not for you to live for him, not for you to hang onto his coattails hoping for acceptance and love. Your life is your life. You can't control what he does and feels, but you can control what you do.

Always remember that whatever happens, you will survive. With him or without him. If it's with him, it should be with mutual commitment and respect, not with him 'deigning' to stay with you because he's decided to grant you his favor. So keep the distance. Have pride in the person you know you should be.


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## Cris7

I don't want to come off as sounding weak. I am just trying to figure out the best way to handle my life being turned upside down. I have 5 kids to take care of as well as myself and the house. I am trying to find time for myself and get a life outside of the family, but it is hard. Most days all I want to do is lay in bed and sleep all day. I have been through a divorce before and do not want to put my kids through that again. I know I can't control him, I just don't want to do anything that would drive him further away. Before all of this he was a very supportive logical person. He has always been affectionate as touch is very important to him. The suicide of a close friend and his 40th b-day coming up has sent him into a tailspin. I just don't want to be another statistic. I want to survive this and be stronger than we were. Thank you all for your advice. I cling to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Men don't want women who cling to them. If you want him to want you, you have to show him you respect yourself too much to share him.


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## Cris7

So some things have happened and I find myself getting more angry. It's almost like I have woken up and feel like I deserve a lot better. I am thinking of putting my foot down on Sunday. His parents are coming to stay tomorrow until Sunday so I think I will wait until they leave. I'm going to tell him what I expect out of a marriage and if he can't give me that then it isn't going to work. I feel like this now, but I still go back and forth. What if I gave him some more time to come around? I just hate feeling like this and living in limbo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband

Cris what came up?


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## Cris7

That's the thing. The things that have come up are more in my mind than anything. I just keep obsessing about the OW. i keep replaying lies he told me. I have no proof of anything. I see emails he sends to her where he jokes around with her and i get furious. he has done a few i find myself getting angry at things like him not helping with the kids or making any effort to plan date nights. Everything Falls to me and i get angry. He's actually been really good the past week being affectionate and playful. We have fun. He plays with the kids more. It's just so hard not knowing what he is thinking. I just have this fear of pushing him too soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband

Cris7 said:


> That's the thing. The things that have come up are more in my mind than anything. I just keep obsessing about the OW. i keep replaying lies he told me. I have no proof of anything. *I see emails he sends to her where he **jokes around with her and i get furious*. he has done a few i find myself getting angry at things like him not helping with the kids or making any effort to plan date nights. Everything Falls to me and i get angry. He's actually been really good the past week being affectionate and playful. We have fun. He plays with the kids more. It's just so hard not knowing what he is thinking. I just have this fear of pushing him too soon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So it isnt just work related stuff,still a friend? and yeah you have every right to mad as hell...What are you prepared to do about it?


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## turnera

I'm confused. He's still continuing the affair and still living with you?


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## strugglinghusband

He still works with her, you know "Just friends"


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## turnera

Cris, until you are willing to tell him she's gone or I am, he'll continue to eat that yummy cake and feed his ego. 

Are you done being a doormat yet?


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## alte Dame

Cris7 said:


> It's almost like I have woken up and feel like I deserve a lot better.


You do deserve better. He has been playing you like a puppeteer. He still has the OW and is still infatuated with her. I'll bet the store that he is cheating with her. 

It sounds corny, but you should sit down and take some very deep breaths and find some zen about your own self-worth. You'll survive without a husband who thinks he's in complete control not only of his life, but of yours as well. Take control of your life. You shouldn't be on your knees to anyone. You'll survive without him. In fact, I'll predict that you'll be a lot better without him. 

So, 180 to take back control and then see how you feel about how you want to live.


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## vi_bride04

You know he hasn't ended the affair, right? If he is still contacting her via email, its not work related, they are still joking....yeah...still involved.

You do deserve so much better. Why has he not cut contact with her or even attempted to look for another job? 

She cannot be in the picture at all if you want to save your marriage. NO CONTACT. PERIOD. None. Gone. No emails, phone calls, chats, stares across the office, lunch dates.....NOTHING. 

Can he do that for you? If not, he is NOT worth your time and especially not worth your love. 

Love yourself more than he loves you. Please. alte is correct - find some time to look at yourself, find inner strength and take back control. You can do this.


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 said:


> That's the thing. The things that have come up are more in my mind than anything. I just keep obsessing about the OW. i keep replaying lies he told me. I have no proof of anything. I see emails he sends to her where he jokes around with her and i get furious. he has done a few i find myself getting angry at things like him not helping with the kids or making any effort to plan date nights. Everything Falls to me and i get angry. He's actually been really good the past week being affectionate and playful. We have fun. He plays with the kids more. It's just so hard not knowing what he is thinking. I just have this fear of pushing him too soon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cris, I could've written exactly that before I busted my husband with emails I found of his that he had forgotten to delete. Emails that clearly pointed to there being a shared secret between them. He was focused more on the kids instead of me. I carried the lion's share of responsibilities with anything to do with our family. We NEVER had date nights....whenever we went out it was always with other people, and I was the one who always asked if we could spend time alone. He said it was "our stage in life". And our sex life was ridiculous. 

I think your husband is still in the affair. And I'll be if you find a way to dig deeper, you will find something. Now how.....

VAR?


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## Cris7

I am going to get a VAR today. I feel I need more proof before I say anything. I hate this. I'm feeling suspicious, meanwhile he has been more attentive. He snuggled me last night before we went to sleep. When he was leaving for work this morning he gave me a kiss and looked me in the eye and said love you. He hasn't said love you first in probably two weeks. Since I have been pulling back I hardly ever say it, and I know I haven't said it to him in a week. I checked his email on Wed. And there haven't been any playful emails between the two of them. I'm just scared. What if he is coming around and I ruin it by spying? I don't know. I just feel like I am never going to be satisfied. He hasn't emailed her, bit instead of being happy I think he's just being more sneaky. So I put a var in his car. What if that comes up with nothing? Will I be satisfied then? Probably not. Then what? I just don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

Your H has decided that he's not in love with you, but then perhaps he is, and then, oops, he's again just not feeling it. So you give him the tiniest taste of what it will mean for him if you're not slavering after his love and he's suddenly interested again. This is a cr*ppy husband and a cr*ppy marriage.

Use the VAR, find out for sure what you're dealing with and then stand up for yourself. Your H doesn't respect you. You have to respect yourself. Why would you want to live your life hoping for the scraps that he throws you?


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris, you okay?


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## Cris7

So I decided to have a talk with H. I told him I can't live in limbo anymore and I need to know if he is in this marriage with me or if he wants a divorce. I did a lot of talking. He said he doesn't want to be with me, that he doesn't want to be in our home. I kept talking saying a whole lot of stuff about how we could be so great if we both worked at it blah blah. He said you want a decision now? I said yes. So he took a few minutes and came back and said "I think we should divorce, but here's the thing. What if in two days I change my mind?" I was dumbfounded. He says he doesn't want to be with me, but doesn't want to do the whole "divorce thing". In that moment he thinks we need divorce, but he's not sure. He ended up sleeping in the basement. Before he went down he gave me a hug and started sobbing. I have never seen my husband cry like that. He then went downstairs. I went down after a few minutes and he said he was fine and asked me to just stop so I went to bed. This morning he tells me that he felt bullied last night and he was very angry. Said he never really thought about what it would mean to divorce me and now he was going to have to think about it. Said that he was just going to go through life until something struck him one way or the other. I am so confused. When he went to say good morning to our boys he ended up crying again in our bathroom. I am so scared I did the wrong thing by pushing him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Silverlining

Time to end the marriage. Talk about fence sitting! 

Make the hard decision and file for divorce. If he was truly in love with you and committed to you and the marriage he would fight tooth and nail to stay married to you. You are his back up plan if all else fails. Ouch!


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## vi_bride04

So he doesn't want you and wants to divorce but might change his mind in 2 days???

Yes, you are his plan B and nothing more. 

File for divorce, you really have no other choice at this point. Unless you want to continue in the limbo you are in for years and years and years. And just b/c you file doesn't mean it has to be finalized. Maybe he will come around. But don't count on it. Especially if he is still involved with OW.


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## turnera

Yep. He doesn't want the divorce, he doesn't want you, but he DOES want you to stay there and take care of him and meet his 'boring' needs while he gets his 'exciting' needs met by a PYT. Blech. Doesn't get more selfish than that.

I'm glad you did this - he would have let you stay in limbo for the next 40 years while he continued to satisfy himself.


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## Grey Goose

Chris there is nothing to be scared of. You did the right thing: 

1. You have to control the situation not him for your sake, and sorry but also for the sake of your children. 
2. He will not respect you if you continue to act as a door mat.
3. Ask yourself if you want to be in a relationship in which you are not appreciated. I also understand the not wanting to go through another divorce, but you did not do this, he did.

We have all been here and we have made it to the other side. I know how you feel bc I was right there with the yes and no and maybes - it killed me until I saw he was still at it and I decided it was enough. Take time for yourself, he has to be a responsible provider for your kids as well as you.


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## Cris7

Thank you all for your support. It just hurts so bad. All I have done today is sit and cry. I've talked to friends and family and they all support me and what I did. I just don't know how he can walk away from us all. I feel like I'm falling apart. I don't know what I'll do if he comes and says that yes we need to divorce. On the other hand I don't know what I'd do if he said he wanted to work on things either. I am so angry at him for doing this.


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 said:


> Thank you all for your support. It just hurts so bad. All I have done today is sit and cry. I've talked to friends and family and they all support me and what I did. I just don't know how he can walk away from us all. I feel like I'm falling apart. I don't know what I'll do if he comes and says that yes we need to divorce. On the other hand I don't know what I'd do if he said he wanted to work on things either. I am so angry at him for doing this.


Cris, I am so, so sorry about this. Listen to Grey Goose. She knows what she's talking about. 

I could be wrong but its likely he's sleeping with her and she's putting pressure on him. He felt "bullied" because you burst his cake-eating bubble. Kick him out. If he wants a divorce, give it to him, but because you will not be in a relationship with three people. Let her have him. He's gonna get a dose of reality. It is AWFUL, but protect those children. 180! You can't control his actions or thinking, especially while he's hooked on the sex of OW. 

This is going to be very, very hard. There is no way you ever have a chance of him coming around until he faces consequences and right now you don't know what he'll do. He is not the person you knew right now. He's living in his selfishness. Let him have it. Don't try to coax him out. It doesn't work. 

Believe you are more valuable than that, because you are. I wish I could give you a big hug!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grey Goose

Cris7 said:


> Thank you all for your support. It just hurts so bad. All I have done today is sit and cry. I've talked to friends and family and they all support me and what I did. I just don't know how he can walk away from us all. I feel like I'm falling apart. I don't know what I'll do if he comes and says that yes we need to divorce. On the other hand I don't know what I'd do if he said he wanted to work on things either. I am so angry at him for doing this.


I went thorugh this by myself, no friends (my friends abandoned me at the time)or TAM and I made it through. You just have to look into your children eyes and ask yourself if this is the best you can do for them. Once you do that you will gather the strength you need to do what has to be done. If D is to drastic consider a separation until you are strong enough to move full speed ahead, you are so much more worth than this.


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## canttrustu

Grey Goose said:


> I went thorugh this by myself, no friends (my friends abandoned me at the time)or TAM and I made it through. You just have to look into your children eyes and ask yourself if this is the best you can do for them. Once you do that you will gather the strength you need to do what has to be done. If D is to drastic consider a separation until you are strong enough to move full speed ahead, you are so much more worth than this.


This.


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## Cris7

I'm still in limbo land. I'm giving it a week and if still nothing then I'm going to take charge. I try not to analyze all the little things he does to try and figure out which way he is leaning. He started the van to warm it up, he did the dishes after dinner and gave me a big hug and two intense kisses before he went to sleep in the basement. He plays with the boys more and makes small talk with me. I just don't know. I have been trying to stay neutral and not have false hope. I'll let you know how it turns out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you read Poppy's thread? Her FWH has been a model FWW but, in reality, after a year or so of trying to be an angel, his selfishness is peeking out, and she's back to being in pain. What I'm trying to say is, anyone can put on an act for a month, 6 months. But if they're still doing the hard work a year or two later, you can better trust the change was real. 

That's why I often recommend a separation, to see if the FWS can accept the roughness of being apart and yet still do all he can to win you back. If he won't do the work, then he's still just being selfish.


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## Grey Goose

turnera said:


> That's why I often recommend a separation, to see if the FWS can accept the roughness of being apart and yet still do all he can to win you back. If he won't do the work, then he's still just being selfish.


Separations work, if you do them for you not thinking it will get you anywhere with them - bc if they do not want back in it will not do anything but send them off. Which is not bad, bc we do not want anyone with us that is not committed to us and our families. 

I had a 1 year separation Chris, but I used it to focus on me. Now he is the perfect H, but I do not believe anything bc I also suffered from Trickled Truth and when he wanted back in he was not open about the A. Months later I tricked him and got it out - not pretty at all and if my system had already been ready to be on it's own, this put it in over drive and now it is very hard for me to believe, trust, feel and love. 

I am not saying this to scare you, I want you to think about you and stop thinking about him. Once you are good, the world will turn again and we will see what happens then.


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## turnera

Grey Goose said:


> Separations work, if you do them for you not thinking it will get you anywhere with them - bc if they do not want back in it will not do anything but send them off. Which is not bad, bc we do not want anyone with us that is not committed to us and our families.


Exactly. It has many benefits. It shows you whether you were just a convenience to them, or important to them. It gives you time away so you can get to know yourself and, if you've been compromising a lot just to keep them, the time alone allows you to remember what you would or wouldn't accept in life so that, if they DO come back, you now know where the 'bar' should be set.


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## Cris7

Ok so it's been a while since I've posted. It has been a roller coaster ride to say the least. I have even considered writing a letter to people he works with exposing the EA but have thought better of it. My husband is very depressed I believe. He has stopped doing things that he previously would not miss for the world. He keeps making comments about how he feels empty inside and how he thinks the boys and I would be better off if he were dead and we got life insurance money. The last big relationship talk we had I told him he needed to choose, marriage or divorce and stick to it. At that time I was angry and didn't know the depth of his depression. He said marriage and started reading marriage fitness much to my surprise. He has been doing that for about a week and a half. Yesterday was our anniversary. I did not say anything or get him anything. He got me a very sweet little card that was a pic of a kitten looking around a tree. It said "Peek-A-Boo I love you". He then wrote I'm sorry for everything. I gave him a hug and kiss and thanked him but wasn't overly emotional. Deep down I thought maybe this was a turning point. After the kids went to bed he goes and reads more of the book. When we go to bed he says I don't think I can do this anymore. We talk and he says that he thinks we should get a divorce. He doesn't know what's wrong with him. I asked him if he was confident in that decision and he said no he is scared that it could end up being the worst decision of his life. I asked him why he got me the card and he said that throughout all of this he has never stopped loving me. I am beyond confused. He then says that he wants to get a good nights sleep and see how he feels in the morning. We get up the next morning and he sleeps in I stead of working out ( very unlike him). I come back after bringing the kids to the bus and he asks if I wanted to come back to bed to warm up a little. I did. I asked him if a good nights sleep helped. He said he didn't want to talk about it. Then he starts initiating being intimate saying wow you feel so good I feel like I have to have you. We were intimate and he snuggled with me for a whole before getting ready for work. Have any of you dealt with this? I truly believe that he is extremely confused and that he is in MLC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

No decisions for now. There's no hurry. Is he seeing an IC?


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## Cris7

No he's not. I've mentioned it but I haven't pushed it. How should I act?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41

Hi Chris. I'm coming to the thread a bit late but I just read it all through.
I could've written this myself. You are going through a lot of the same stuff I did.
Your H is still in his A. He's cake eating and confused.
Make the decision for him and ask him to leave. 
I know how hard it is, honestly I've been in your position. It broke my heart to ask my H to leave but it had to be done.
You can't nice him out of this. He has to see there are consequences to his actions. It actually sounds like he still cares for you but he is cake eating and that has to stop other wise he will not stop the A. He has to think he is going to lose you.
Marriages can survive a separation. But they cant survive an A that has gone underground and is thriving in the darkness. We were separated for 4 months. It's only when I Started moving on with my life and let him go, that he realised what an idiot he had been.
You need to be strong and make the decision to let him go. Refuse to be part of the drama and ask him to leave.
Then sit back and watch the train wreck implode!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

Yes, these are the classic signs of cake-eating. The A is most likely still on. If you want him to decide, then you have to give him the push, in my opinion. He works daily with the OW, doesn't he?


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## Silverlining

I agree with the previous posters. He is still seeing OW and currently cake-eating. He is getting his needs met by two women and it's time you take yourself out of the equation. Ask him to leave and let him know R is off the table.


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## Silverlining

Cris7 said:


> I'm still in limbo land. I'm giving it a week and if still nothing then I'm going to take charge. I try not to analyze all the little things he does to try and figure out which way he is leaning. He started the van to warm it up, he did the dishes after dinner and gave me a big hug and two intense kisses before he went to sleep in the basement. He plays with the boys more and makes small talk with me. I just don't know. I have been trying to stay neutral and not have false hope. I'll let you know how it turns out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


None of these things mean anything if he is carrying on with another woman.


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## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: Husband EA with co worker, what to do?*



Silverlining said:


> None of these things mean anything if he is carrying on with another woman.


Re-read this post over and over and over and over....

If the OW is still in the picture, there is no true R, especially if he talks to her every day.


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## Cris7

I can see how you all jump to the conclusion that he is still in it with her. I have a few reasons why I don't believe so. The most important one being that he would get fired if he was caught again not to mention his reputation with the medical community. I also have no gut feeling that he is lying to me. I had strong feelings before and they turned out to be right. My gut is rarely wrong. He also rarely does anything outside of work and when he does I keep tabs on him. The playful emails between them have stopped. He didn't know I check. She has moved her baby daddy back in with her. I have friends that alerted me that they felt something was going on between them in the beginning that still work there. They say it is like night and day. No weird vibes or anything. If you guys could have met my husband before all of this you would be shocked at how he is acting. That is why I think he is depressed and in a MLC. The death of a close friend was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. A few weeks after that was when I got the ILYBNILWY speech.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04

What are you doing to verify NC? Please list examples.


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## Cris7

I check his phone and email, computer history and have GPS on vehicle. I search his car for secret phone and I have never found anything. I check phone records in case he deletes calls or texts and I even have his texts linked to our iPad so I know when he gets them. I am very thorough I don't want to be burned again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Does he know you're doing all this?


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## Silverlining

Let me get this straight, they still work together and he sees her every day.

In order for him to move beyond the EA, he needs to have No Contact. 

Just giving my 2 cents


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## Cris7

No he does not know I do all of this. I understand what you're saying silver, his EA was more like a game to him. He didn't love her, he just liked the thrill of the chase. I know it is still serious but he can't continue things with her and still work with her without being fired. She could have found another job at anytime and then they could have been together but he chose to tell her he was done with her and that he was working on his marriage. I have talked to her several times since the also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cris7

Oh I forgot his work computer. I do t have access to that, but the activity is strictly monitored so I know he wouldn't use that for anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris -- do you have anyone at his work who is able to serve as eyes and ears for you?

Also, it seems he's no longer in the basement but back in your room. Did he ask to return?


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## Cris7

Yes I have two people that work there that know everything. He did ask to come back to our bed. The past few days have been really good. He has been talkative and sharing his day with me without me asking. He also initiated sex Tuesday night and this morning. I talked to the therapist that we talked to before and he asked why I thought when he is pushed to make a choice he gets very sexual. I guessed that is his way of trying to reconnect with me. I have also read on other sites that with walk away spouses you don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do. Do any of you agree with that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I don't believe ANYTHING they say.

Only what they do.


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## Cris7

Over the past couple of weeks H and I have had talks initiated by him in which he starts out saying he thinks we should divorce, but that is only a feeling and he says when he really thinks about it he gets confused. He swears there is no one else, and from what I can see he is telling me the truth. Our last talk I put my foot down and said either you are in or you are out. If you are in you need to go to counseling. He admitted to feeling depressed and that he need to improve on some things, but still not sure if he wants to be with me. He is starting counseling next week. I know when I was depressed I didn't want to be with my H and focused on the negatives about being with him. I hope counseling helps him see the good we have, bit either way it goes I'm prepared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I forget, have you guys read HNHN and done the questionnaires?


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## Cris7

No we have not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

This would be a good time to do it. Trust me, it will make a lot of sense.


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## LongWalk

Hi Chris,

I haven't read everything you've posted because this situation has festered a long time. The OW is a problem but it seems that if it weren't her, someone else would have come into the picture. That restless feeling gripping your husband is not simply due to her. He pursued her. It is actually wrong for her to be punished because a superior sexually harassed her.

Without going to HR, she could probably get a job somewhere else in the system. That is just a matter of willpower. For your husband the job situation is much more complicated. Having him change might create a lot of stress. How long is his commute to and from work? Is he on call many weekends? Do the other doctors in his practice treat each other fairly?

If one physician dominates or bullies the others into covering more for him than he does for them, then an office assistant who sympathizes with the doctor who is wronged can quickly build up emotional capital. If she took care to schedule things to make his life better and easier, he might have been drawn to her.

I've noticed that doctors have to compete with each other to have the staff on their side. Some of these situations can be toxic and lower quality of life on the job.

Doctors have good income and high social status. It is easy for them to get women. Office staff don't have anywhere near the education that most doctor's wives have. So, the affair with the clerk is a downward move. That doesn't mean that there aren't hot, cool, smart women among the staff but there is a whole dynamic here that is ugly.

Your husband may not want to divorce and marry her because her status is too low. Also, if you socialize with other doctors families, he may realize that the guy who marries the hot nurse or administrator will be shunned by the other wives as a bad example for their husbands.

I know a doctor married to a SAHM who was a classmate from med school. She never practiced, preferring to become the soccer mom. She is very smart and has her surgeon husband on a short leash. He works like a dog (ok, he loves sawing bones) but she makes certain that all his free time is consumed by family activities. He has to struggle to find time to work out and stay healthy.

She does take care of him in many ways and loves him, too, at the same time that she would watch him work himself to an early death. It is a possessive relationship. She has the power. If he ever had an affair her antenna would pick it up fast. If their marriage ended, it would be war. He knows she would kick his as$.

It is easy to scoff at this type of marriage but I think he considers it a good deal. He has listened to an administrator break down and cry at work because her husband was having an affair.

An imperfect marriage may be better than a hellish divorce. Your husband seems to feel this way. The fact that you lost weight and rediscovered your sexual desire has saved your marriage. He once had telephone sex with her. Have you ever thought about asking him to do it with you? Maybe when he is at the hospital and cannot see the last patient and doesn't have too much to do, you could try it, too.

Once I sat on a train. And by chance the woman sitting next to me was the mother of a doctor who had been in the service and had the same specialty that the doctor I described above had. She disapproved of his life style. She was part native American and knew the US from the its worst side, having grown up poor, oppressed and beaten down.

She did not like the way her DIL spent money, it was a kind of meaningless consumerism. Her grandchildren had never considered ordering something cheaper on the menu when going out to eat. Her son never had enough sleep because there was this work imperative. This lifestyle that did not sit well with her, but she took care not let slip her opinions because she had no doubt her DIL would freeze her out instantly if she were so free.

How does your husband view his work and lifestyle. Do you share the same values? Can you agree on what sort of life you want to lead? Does he want to write papers for journals? Improve his qualifications? Do you support him in this if he does?

Ask him what sort of life he sees for his children? Tell him that there are successful divorced parents. It is harder but it can be done assure him that if you do divorce, you will not let your children down in any event, i.e., you have values. If he thinks divorce is an option, has he considered how he will respond to the challenge? I think he expects to fail, given his hesitation. By indicating that you will divorce if he is not in, you are forcing him to face himself. MC is a good place to raise these questions.

I found it fascinating that he had been a bartender in a resort town and had scréwed at least 100 women. Did you learn this before or after you were married?


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## Cris7

Ok so the rollercoaster is finally coming to an end and I'm nervous. I finally had enough and said she goes or we divorce. I was not convinced that he could fully commit to us while she was till around. He finally agreed to start the process and talk to the office manager about how to get rid of her. I know if she stayed I would divorce him. I cannot handle it anymore. I am scared that he is going to become very angry with me for "controlling" him. He has said he is really angry but he understands my point of view. I guess right now I figure we are done if she is there. If him removing her he becomes angry with me to the point of leaving me oh well. And no there has not been any contact with her besides work. Nothing going on outside of work and I am sure there isn't anything between them romantically. Anyone else who has gone through this and had their SO angry or resentful because of ending contact and had it work out?


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## LongWalk

Was he contacting her outside of work?

Is your sex life still on the upswing?

Is your husband thinking more logically again?


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## turnera

He'll get over the anger. Just hold calm. And good job!


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## Cris7

No there isn't any contact outside of work. We are doing well. He is more logical and sex has always been good throughout this whole ordeal. I think the hardest thing for me is being patient. I just want him to go and fire her. I know that for legal purposes it needs to be handled carefully. Does anyone think that there is a possibility that they can't have her removed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Depends on whether she decides to get a good lawyer.


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## LongWalk

Your husband is more in the wrong as far work goes. He is like a manager and she is a subordinate. To be sure she was not unwilling to be pursued so she is not blameless. 

Practically speaking, shifting her is easier. She and you husband should raise the issue with HR to find another post for her. They should not go to that meeting together.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Working1

Cris7 said:


> No there isn't any contact outside of work. We are doing well. He is more logical and sex has always been good throughout this whole ordeal. I think the hardest thing for me is being patient. I just want him to go and fire her. I know that for legal purposes it needs to be handled carefully. Does anyone think that there is a possibility that they can't have her removed?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THere is always a way to let s
omebody go.


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## distraughtfromtexas

My H had an EA with a coworker and I am not sure we would still be together if she hadn't quit. You can't heal when thru are still working together. My H was not angry but very resentful, he did get over that part of it. Stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cris7

I am having a really hard time dealing with all of this. I agreed to give him a month to start the process of finding her a new position. My mind is going into overdrive coming up with all sorts of schemes he could be concocting with her. I have no proof of anything and deep down I don't think he would lie to me again. I have three weeks to go. Any advice on how to keep sane?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thesunwillcomeout

Cris7 said:


> Honestly I fear that he would divorce me rather than have her fired and that scares me.


Cris, you wrote this almost a year ago. What has he done to prove the contrary? Honestly, he's been stringing you along by his own inaction. What has he been doing to prove to you that he wants YOU first and only you? Is he doing any hard work to prove his love to you? It's likely she was the source way back when of his saying "ILYBINILWY" -- and then that changed? He was in the basement, then he was back in your room. Things seemed to be better. Your sex life was good. But there's still the problem of the OW still working there. I can't imagine the torture for you--oh wait, I can! Because my husband worked with his OW from DDay Feb 29th 2012 until December of the same year when she left to work from home and be a sort-of SAHM (but there's always the possibility she can still pop in). Thankfully her last "pop-up" was ages ago but our agreement is he calls me immediately and avoids her at all costs. (I have verification from a friend in the office.)

There is no way that your situation can get better until they aren't working together. My husband's real connection to me returned after she left and he has had to miss many work events where she has "popped up" because someone in the office invited her. Such is the price. 

You have been ENORMOUSLY generous with him. Giving him this month. Please, please do not let him off the hook if she isn't gone in 3 weeks. Take the ring off your finger, meet with a lawyer. Let him know you mean business. There have been no consequences. I'm hoping his work place is still aware? 

Have you ever exposed her to her family? 

Praying for you.


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## turnera

Fill your time with fun stuff for YOU. Use his credit card to do it.


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## Cris7

The last year has been a roller coaster. It wasn't until 5 months ago when he started with his current counselor that we started to improve. Problem is I would bring her up and all of the good we had went out the window and we would be back in a very negative place. He would bring up divorce but when it came down to it he would always go back and say that he wanted to try again. That he goes back and forth, one day divorce, the next no divorce. I am convinced that she has something to do with it. Even though I don't feel like they are engaged in the same things that happened in the past, they share a history and there has to be feelings there. The most recent time we talked divorce he moved out for 5 days. Came back said he wanted divorce. We talked about how it looked and telling the kids. He freaked out when I was going to get the kids so we could tell them. Said "doesn't this mean something? That it's so hard for me to decide? Divorce doesn't feel right. ". That's when he asked to give it another chance. I let a week go by, but then put my foot down and said that I wanted to try without her in the picture. He agreed. I told him I wouldn't hound him about it and give him a month and then check back in to see what progress he made. I do t know if I can hang in there that long. Maybe I am being stupid for hanging in there. I mean he isn't falling over to prove himself to me. I just can't give up if there is a chance to work things out. I take it as a good sign that he wants to try without her in the picture. I hope I'm not being played again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cris7

turnera said:


> Fill your time with fun stuff for YOU. Use his credit card to do it.


 I have been doing that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Does he have a set list of things he needs to do?


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## thesunwillcomeout

Oh Cris, I can't imagine what this has been like. Please trust your gut. WS who want to repair their marriages don't waffle like that unless there is a source for the confusion. If I had a chance at making a quick million betting on her involvement I'd make the bet, because you can count on her still being a factor. I am so, so, so sorry. He's afraid of not having the stability of the home and his children but he is NOT making you his priority. It's classic cake-eating but it's not good for anyone. 

When he's moved out have you asked him to move out or was it his idea?

If you don't stand up for yourself he certainly won't. Stop focusing on him and yes, focus on yourself. If he wants to be with her tell him to go and have at it but you deserve better. I wouldn't have anything to do with him . You're playing the "pick me" card. You are loyal and hoping for the best and he's taken advantage of that. Time to spend time only with the people who really demonstrate love for you and you can love back. Have you read any of the classic books on infidelity?


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## Cris7

I was the one asking him to move out. Do you think it's possible that there is nothing going on between them but the fact that she is still around just triggers a feeling of "what if" that is enough for the confusion? My mind is mush from trying to figure it all out. You are right. I have been the doting wife trying to make everything perfect for him in hopes that he realizes what he has in me. It hasn't worked. I was told that wouldn't work from the day I came to this forum. I wAs just in too much denial and desperate. I mean he says he loves me bit that we don't have fun. He thinks there is too much from the past that he can't get over. I am so tired of all of it. I have told him time and time again that if he came to me and said that he wanted a divorce that I would respect it. He never says he wants it. He says that right now he thinks we should, but tomorrow he could feel differently. He doesn't have a list of things he needs to do. I am afraid if I do t give him this chance to remove her from our lives that I will have a huge amount of regret. I can't have regret. I need to know that what I'm doing is what needs to be done. Now I don't know what I will do if at the end of the month he says that he has a plan but hasn't put the plan into motion yet. I hope that's not the case. I can't take anymore of her being around. I have not read any books, just online blogs and such. It's so hard to take a tough stand because his actions don't match his words. He sets his alarm 10 minutes early each morning so we can snuggle before getting up. He is affectionate with me and initiates intimacy often. I feel like he really cares for me. It's hard for me to do something with the thought of pushing him away. What if we are just going through a rough patch and if I just keep positive we can get through it? I'm not saying with her in the picture. She needs to go. I'm just scared of doing something I will regret. I guess staying with him could be a regret too. All of this is so so hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OnMyOwnat50

My STBXH was involved in an EA with a co-worker 3 years ago, which resulted is us splitting up. Although the OW's H and I both asked our spouses to quit their jobs when the affair was discovered, neither did, and with the economy the way it was, neither of us pushed it too much. Although I think that they broke things off some time after the EA was discovered, with STBXH asking to come home 4 months after we initially split up, who knows whether they actually did.

They both had government-issued password-protected computers (to send emails) and phones (to call and text each other without their spouses knowing). Fast forward 16 months after he moved back... I finally had enough with STBXH's lack of effort in helping repair the problems in our marriage and I told him I was filing for divorce after 30 years together. Within 2 weeks of us splitting up, they were at it again. Again they are caught, and I think they go their separate ways again (based on things I'm hearing from our daughters and the amount of attention he is paying to me).

Fast forward another six months and OW's H comes home to find out that another man (my STBXH) had come into their home when he was away driving their oldest S to his first year at college, and with their two younger sons (high school-aged) home at the time, helped OW pack up her stuff and move out. Turns out STBXH bought a house in their town in mid July. Before Labor Day he moved the OW into his house. STBXH is living with a friend right now, but had been living with his brother since our split last October. Apparently the plan is to wait until both are divorced before they live together.

So...this is a cautionary tale. I'm sorry... I can't imagine there can be a happy ending for you if the OW and your H are still working together.


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## alte Dame

I've followed your story, Cris, from the first time you posted & I sense that you are a bit stronger now. I still don't understand why the decision to stay married or get divorced is 100% in his hands. You seem to let him jerk you around like a yo-yo.

I'm glad that you've finally put your foot down, but please try to believe that you have a real choice, too. Just as much as he does. And fwiw, I agree with the others that the OW has everything to do with his 'indecision.'


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## Blue_eyes78

I had to change my user name, but it's me, cris7. I don't know what to do. I have friends that work with my husband and it was reported that a new employee asked if my H was married or if he was dating the co-worker. That to me says that they are being too friendly at work. I mean a stranger picked up on a vibe. I told my H and he was frustrated saying that he doesn't know what she could have picked up on, that he is not doing anything. I then told him he needs to get things started with getting her out. He talked with the manager but instead of being direct said that if people were talking about them in the office that it would be a good idea to have her moved. Manager said there wasn't anything being talked about as far as she knew but that they could give the co-worker more responsibility so she wouldn't be working with him as much. A few days later Co-worker told my H that she had a meeting with manager and that she would have other things to do. She wasn't happy and said she was going to probably start looking for another job. I am not happy with this. I don't want it to be up to her whether she stays or goes. I asked my H how long he was going to give her before he tried something else. He got frustrated saying he didn't know and that he hated that I was trying to control how he handled it. He said he wasn't on the same timeline as I was and that he had to be careful not to upset her so she would make a big deal about it. He wants it to be her idea that she leaves. I don't doubt that he wants to get rid of her. I just hate feeling like she is more important than me. I have been tortured by them working together for a year and when push comes to shove he seems more concerned about her than me. I am so lost.


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## turnera

Blue_eyes78 said:


> he hated that I was trying to control how he handled it. He said he wasn't on the same timeline as I was and that he had to be careful not to upset her so she wouldn't make a big deal about it.


My DH is a hoarder. For 35 years, I've sat back and watched as he accumulates more and more and more and more stuff. I've tried to organize it (he almost NEVER throws anything away, just moves it around). I'm talking filled up an attic, a 3-car garage, a kitchen cabinet (4 shelves), and an office. Used to be, I'd try to organize it, to avoid the inevitable 'I need this NOW and I don't know where YOU put it!' crap. Each time, he'd do this hair-pulling routine as if I were stabbing him in the chest or something, and do the 'why are you doing this to me' routine. I'd back down. It'd get worse.

Finally, after 35 years, I've had enough. I AM emptying out my house. I'm not throwing his stuff away, but I am moving and organizing and categorizing everything he's saved. I will no longer allow him to say 'I don't know where such and such is,' because I will know it's in the ONE place where ALL such and suches are stored.

I got the 'why are you doing this to me' speech again last weekend, when he discovered what I've been doing to his office. This time, instead of backing down, I just shrugged and said "I've waited 35 years for you to get your sh*t together. I'm done waiting. Either you stand back and let me organize this stuff, or I move out. Your choice." and I walked away. He shut up. 

It really does have to be that level, blue. He hasn't moved for a year because he knows he doesn't HAVE to. YOU are still THERE.


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## Blue_eyes78

I understand exactly what you are saying tunera. I know the only reason he is acting now is because I said she goes or I am divorcing him. I know it's a delicate situation with regards to her and the possibility of a law suit. I just don't know how much longer I can give the situation. I asked him if management knows he wants her gone. He said he didn't know for sure if they do. I asked him to communicate that to them. He got frustrated and I said ok if you don't want to that's fine. He responded that it wasn't that, he just didn't know what I wanted him to do. Said he can't do anything right for me, nothing he does is good enough. I don't know if I should give him more time or just file.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Blue_eyes78 said:


> I asked him to communicate that to them. He got frustrated and I said ok if you don't want to that's fine.


Of course he got frustrated. He has NO INTENTION of making himself look bad to his bosses just to please YOU. He never did. He told you what you wanted to hear, he lied to you, and he expected you to just back down (like you just did) and give up on it (like you do), so he could go back to the life HE wants.

I just don't see why you can't just at least separate from him for awhile. Be on your own to regain your strength.


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## turnera

And how much 'time' does it take to walk into your boss's office and tell him the truth? Months and months of preparation? Years?

Blue, you're not new here. You know better: watch his ACTIONS, not his words. His ACTIONS are all about shutting you down, shutting you up, and continuing to live the way HE wants.


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## Blue_eyes78

I am feeling a lot stronger these days. I feel myself detaching and that scares me. I spoke to an attorney who told me that my biggest hurdle will be keeping the house because I am a stay at home mom. It's all scary, but he has me feeling really guilty for demanding that he do something quickly. He moved out for a week but now says that he won't leave the house because of parenting time. I feel like if we separate I might as well file. I am going to distance myself from him as much as I can this weekend and next week demand that he has a meeting with his manager and set things straight. I can't do it tonight as he is on call and wo to be home until late and I honestly want to give him a break. He has been working 14 hours a day the past two weeks straight. I feel like I need to give him sometime to rest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue_eyes78

I am looking at his actions. When we decide that I will go file he says that it isn't what he wants and let's give it more time. Why doesn't he just agree to file? It's all so confusing. You think when he comes home tonight I demand that he meet with his manager tomorrow?


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## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: Husband EA with co worker, what to do?*



Blue_eyes78 said:


> I am looking at his actions. When we decide that I will go file he says that it isn't what he wants and let's give it more time. Why doesn't he just agree to file? It's all so confusing. You think when he comes home tonight I demand that he meet with his manager tomorrow?


Cuz he's a cake eater and doesn't want to stop pigging out


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## Blue_eyes78

This is all so hard. I wish I could hate him. That would make all of this so much easier. I am just so scared of having regrets. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

You already have regrets. A bucketful. He has kept you on this string for a very long time. And he is a cake-eater. You act helpless to decide your own future and he takes advantage of that. What's the worst that could happen if you file? Nobody will die. The sun will still come up in the morning. If you just stop spinning your wheels because you are afraid, you might see that these choices have always been yours. Always.


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## Blue_eyes78

I know. I went through a divorce with three kids involved. I still to this day regret not trying harder with my first marriage. I want to be sure that I've done everything I can to save this one before I end things. It's just taken me a lot longer. I keep thinking "if only this, if only that" and I'm not facing reality. He came home from work late tonight because of surgeries. I usually watch tv with him and talk about our days. I told him I was going to lay down instead. He asked what wAs wrong and I told him just the same thing that has been wrong for the past year. He was annoyed again. Just wish he could feel what I've been feeling for just one day. Then he would understand. Within a few days I will know what to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

He WILL feel that way. Once you leave.


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## thesunwillcomeout

vi_bride04 said:


> Cuz he's a cake eater and doesn't want to stop pigging out


:iagree: -- And he has no intention of telling the manager. Here's why -- they are still involved in one way or another. How do you really know she was upset? Are you just going by what he is telling you? I am so, so sorry to say this because it hurts very badly, but he's taking advantage of your soft heart. 

Who knows what they have planned.

A long time ago you said the manager knew about their involvement -- are YOU still in touch with the manager? Can you go in and express concern yourself? As in, expose again? 

Of course if you file you get your message across. No more mrs. nice gal. Have you confirmed it was never physical with them?

You are so dear and I hate to see him jerking you around like this.


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## alte Dame

thesunwillcomeout said:


> :iagree: -- And he has no intention of telling the manager. Here's why -- they are still involved in one way or another. How do you really know she was upset? Are you just going by what he is telling you? I am so, so sorry to say this because it hurts very badly, but he's taking advantage of your soft heart.
> 
> Who knows what they have planned.
> 
> A long time ago you said the manager knew about their involvement -- are YOU still in touch with the manager? Can you go in and express concern yourself? As in, expose again?
> 
> Of course if you file you get your message across. No more mrs. nice gal. Have you confirmed it was never physical with them?
> 
> You are so dear and I hate to see him jerking you around like this.


I agree. I haven't been buying that the A is over, thus the cake-eating. And now you have newcomers to the place assuming from the way that they interact that they are together as a couple. I hope you save yourself sooner rather than later.


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## ne9907

I have read your story from beginning to end. I am very sorry you are going through this. 
Blue... I also fought very hard for my marriage. My husband was involved in EA (I didn't know what it was). He always said they were just friends, I was naïve and stupid. 
My marriage was over for a long time. My husband acted much like yours, but I never wanted to be divorce and wanted to fight for my marriage.
We have been separated for a while, fast forward to now, he has admitted he never actually loved me. He didn't/doesn't like the way I am. He is over me. He has also said that "ne9907 you need to move on, I have and I am much happier now".
Now, after all the fighting I did to keep our marriage he views me with pity and he has no respect for me.
Divorce is a scary thing, but I see so many similarities between your husband and stbxh, the way you are fighting so hard to keep your marriage (just like I did) that I am afraid your husband will end feeling you are worthless because you have let him be his doormat.

Please take care of yourself, and I really do hope you two can make it.
Good luck


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## Blue_eyes78

Thank you all for your posts. I again said something about him making it clear to his manager that she needed to go. He said that he thought he had. I want a concrete plan in place. He said he is doing the best he can. He wants to have her removed he just isn't doing it the way I want him too. Said what do you expect from me? I am extremely busy and you want me to struggle through that with even less help. He then said I needed to get a job or something to I would stop obsessing about it. (I stay at home)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Maybe it's time for YOU to make a phone call.


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## turnera

Not a bad idea for you to get a job. Get out in the real world, and you'll start having more self worth. Something you're really lacking these days.


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## alte Dame

Why don't you get a job? It would do wonders for your sense of self at this point, in my opinion.


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## Blue_eyes78

I would love to get a job. I fear it will cause more issues. I have 5 kids all in a sport of some kind. My H job is very demanding, he does nothing when it comes to the household stuff or carting the kids around. If I got a job I would need to do the job, plus everything I do now. I'm barely keeping my head above water as it is. Plus my H has made a comment before about my getting a job. He said well you'll have this job that barely pays anything. I make in a couple of hours what would take you working all week. What if one of the kids got sick? Would you expect me to rake time off so you wouldn't get fired? I know I sound weak and like I have no backbone. I am getting stronger day by day. I am looking at getting a job to work from home. I am helping at my children's school 2 days a week. It has all helped. He's just not used to me putting my foot down like this. I feel like I would like to give him a chance to prove that he wants her gone. What's a few weeks? I'm not worried about them being together. If they are, a few weeks wouldn't change that. If he has been deceiving me this whole time then we would be divorcing anyway. I can talk about divorce without getting emotional now. That is a big change for me. I know I can do it. If he doesn't get things moving with regards to her, then I will be able to leave knowing I did everything I could.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

Some people are forceful and 'boom,' make things happen. Others take small steps to get where they need to go. It takes no less courage to take the small steps.

You will get there. We may be a bit impatient because we think he has mistreated you, but you're getting there and we see it.

Set your timetable to have her gone. If he has done his standard hemming and hawing about it & she is still there, then file for the divorce. That can be the last little step that makes a big, big positive difference in your life.

(P.S. - My mother had 5 children and a career. She was always exhausted. Her marriage was of her era, which meant that my father did nothing in the household. She did everything. If my father had done what your WH is doing, she would have pushed him out the door long ago. Life can be hard and enervating, but we rise to the challenge.)


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## Cris7

It has been a long time since I have updated. Well after 2 years of limbo I filed for divorce. He couldn't commit to our marriage. I filed in May. I started dating right away. I realize that is t the smartest thing to do but I needed a change of scenery. I met this great guy. I am close to introducing him to the kids so I tell my stbx that I am seeing someone. He flips out, first angry then after a couple of days says that he had a plan all along to destroy our marriage and start fresh. That he never really thought we would be apart. That he wants another chance. He wants me to be the center of his world and he will spend the rest of our lives proving to me that he loves me and trusts me. I agreed to go to dinner with him. During dinner I felt repulsed by him. I didn't want him to touch me. I told him we can't try again. He started sobbing saying how much he wants this and can't I just try. I am so confused. I don't know what to do. Can I come back from the hurt and devastation? I was just starting to feel good and now this. I am at a loss. Any advice appreciated. Btw I am the same person as blueeyes78
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brendanoco

Cris7 said:


> It has been a long time since I have updated. Well after 2 years of limbo I filed for divorce. He couldn't commit to our marriage. I filed in May. I started dating right away. I realize that is t the smartest thing to do but I needed a change of scenery. I met this great guy. I am close to introducing him to the kids so I tell my stbx that I am seeing someone. He flips out, first angry then after a couple of days says that he had a plan all along to destroy our marriage and start fresh. That he never really thought we would be apart. That he wants another chance. He wants me to be the center of his world and he will spend the rest of our lives proving to me that he loves me and trusts me. I agreed to go to dinner with him. During dinner I felt repulsed by him. I didn't want him to touch me. I told him we can't try again. He started sobbing saying how much he wants this and can't I just try. I am so confused. I don't know what to do. Can I come back from the hurt and devastation? I was just starting to feel good and now this. I am at a loss. Any advice appreciated. Btw I am the same person as blueeyes78
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That hoover is going into overdrive trying to suck you back in. 

How do you feel about him?? if you do take him back would it be for you or would it be for the kids sake??


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## Cris7

I don't think he's a bad guy. I feel like he is being sincere. I just can't see myself happy with him again. I am struggling with the what if I could get feelings back with time. Deep down I feel I would be doing it for the kids and financial stability. How can a person be sure?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pepper123

I would not take him back. No way, no how. I like quotes and poetry... so here are a couple for you:

Don't spend time beating on a wall, hoping to transform it into a door. --Coco Chanel

THERE'S A HOLE IN MY SIDEWALK -- By Portia Nelson

I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost .... I am helpless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.	
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. 
I pretend that I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I am in this same place.
But, it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in ... it's a habit ... but, my eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.
I walk down another street.


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## lifeistooshort

I would never take him back. Hon, he's shown youwho he is, you need to believe him. He's panicking right now because he's realizing that he's losing plan B (you). If he gave a sh!t about you he had plenty of opportunity to show it, he just thought you weren't going anywhere. You will get more of the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cris7

Deep down I have felt that I shouldn't give him another chance. He is just so convincing by what he says. He is saying everything I've wanted him to say. I hate that he is making me doubt myself after I was feeling so sure about things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Too little, too late, IMO. Put him in your rearview and don't look back, ever.


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## The Middleman

Cris7 said:


> I don't think he's a bad guy. I feel like he is being sincere. I just can't see myself happy with him again. I am struggling with the what if I could get feelings back with time. Deep down I feel I would be doing it for the kids and financial stability. How can a person be sure?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He had the opportunity to make things right and he blew it. He hasn't learned anything, you can see that by his reactions ... it's all about him! Time to think about you and your kids. There is someone out there better for you.


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## MattMatt

ne9907 said:


> I have read your story from beginning to end. I am very sorry you are going through this.
> Blue... I also fought very hard for my marriage. My husband was involved in EA (I didn't know what it was). He always said they were just friends, I was naïve and stupid.
> My marriage was over for a long time. My husband acted much like yours, but I never wanted to be divorce and wanted to fight for my marriage.
> We have been separated for a while, fast forward to now, he has admitted he never actually loved me. He didn't/doesn't like the way I am. He is over me. He has also said that "ne9907 you need to move on, I have and I am much happier now".
> Now, after all the fighting I did to keep our marriage he views me with pity and he has no respect for me.
> Divorce is a scary thing, but I see so many similarities between your husband and stbxh, the way you are fighting so hard to keep your marriage (just like I did) that I am afraid your husband will end feeling you are worthless because you have let him be his doormat.
> 
> Please take care of yourself, and I really do hope you two can make it.
> Good luck


"_He never loved you_." That's a lie he tells himself to forgive himself for treating you so badly.


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## Laurel

Cris7 said:


> It has been a long time since I have updated. Well after 2 years of limbo I filed for divorce. He couldn't commit to our marriage. I filed in May. I started dating right away. I realize that is t the smartest thing to do but I needed a change of scenery. I met this great guy. I am close to introducing him to the kids so I tell my stbx that I am seeing someone. He flips out, first angry then after a couple of days says that he had a plan all along to destroy our marriage and start fresh. That he never really thought we would be apart. That he wants another chance. He wants me to be the center of his world and he will spend the rest of our lives proving to me that he loves me and trusts me. I agreed to go to dinner with him. During dinner I felt repulsed by him. I didn't want him to touch me. I told him we can't try again. He started sobbing saying how much he wants this and can't I just try. I am so confused. I don't know what to do. Can I come back from the hurt and devastation? I was just starting to feel good and now this. I am at a loss. Any advice appreciated. Btw I am the same person as blueeyes78
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My advice would be to stick with the decision you made and walk away. Divorce him and continue moving on with your life. He had two years to commit to the marriage. You gave him more than enough chances and time to save the marriage. The only reason he's interested now is because he sees you moving on with your life, and he finally realizes that you won't always be there to fall back on. He sees that someone else is interested in you. Too little, too late at this point. 

Trust your gut. You said you felt repulsed by him. That is a STRONG feeling. Your intuition is telling you what your heart and mind are confused by. You need to move on. 

I'm a big proponent of reconciliation. But I just don't think it fits in this situation. He had his chance, and he blew it big time. That's on him, not you, and now he has to live with the consequences of his actions. When you feel bad seeing him sob and beg, just remember all the times you sobbed because of his actions, and how he didn't care. 

You will be fine. Your kids will be fine. Please move on and don't get sucked back into the limbo and waste any more of your life.


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## lifeistooshort

Of course he's saying what you want to hear, that's what manipulators do. You will go back to being plan B, and he can't make you feel bad unless you buy his bullsh!t and let him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Turin74

*Re: Re: Husband EA with co worker, what to do?*

May I please ask why you even having second thoughts? It's obviously only an ego/ownership issue with this guy. You get together - > his ego is back - > he's back to being himself. Bloody obvious. Sorry



Cris7 said:


> My husband of 6 years gave me the ILYBNILWY speech on sept. 26 of this year. I was shocked, begged for a chance and for him to really try
> 
> ... 2 years later
> 
> 
> I met this great guy. I am close to introducing him to the kids so I tell my stbx that I am seeing someone. He flips out, first angry then after a couple of days says that he had a plan all along to destroy our marriage and start fresh.


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## Pepper123

Cris,

Let me take the opportunity to remind you of some poignant moments from the last two years of your life - all at the hands of the man who now claims to want you back:

He is not in love with you
He wants to screw another woman
He does not find you attractive
He has lied on various levels (secret cell phone, he wanted to try, he wasn’t talking to her…)
Made you feel like he would divorce you before having her fired
He text the OW saying it was not a matter of “if” but “when” he would divorce you
The EA only ended when the OW freaked out and threw him under the bus
He is likely a sex addict
He said he finds “everything you do annoying”
He is not very helpful with the kids
He does not make an effort to plan alone time with you
Playful, continued correspondence between him and the OW
Said that he doesn’t want to be with you / in the family home
Played with your emotions - divorce one day, back together the next

Every time you have agreed to try and work it out, give it another shot, etc. he has crapped all over your offering. And now as the divorce date nears, he realizes he has lost you. And what a crappy feeling to not be wanted - not by either of the women! He played both of you to feed his own ego, and now that you have stopped playing his childish games he is throwing a fit. But that is no longer your problem, is it? Because you deserve much more than anything he could offer you at this point in your tainted relationship. He said all of the things above to tear you down and make you weak, but before he could do that you demanded more. And you will get it, as long as you move FORWARD, not BACKWARDS. 

Have you ever heard that saying, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result." ?? 

Keep walking. Don't fall in the black hole that is your STBXH is... Your happiness awaits.


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## Turin74

*Re: Re: Husband EA with co worker, what to do?*

Cris7, if you look at this in a context (as per the quoted bit below, I'd only add you are seeing a good guy now which was the only trigger for your X) - things look very clear, if you employ your brain, not heart. You probably want your kids not to be part of multi year drama as well.


Pepper123 said:


> Cris,
> 
> Let me take the opportunity to remind you of some poignant moments from the last two years of your life - all at the hands of the man who now claims to want you back:
> 
> He is not in love with you
> He wants to screw another woman
> He does not find you attractive
> He has lied on various levels (secret cell phone, he wanted to try, he wasn’t talking to her…)
> Made you feel like he would divorce you before having her fired
> He text the OW saying it was not a matter of “if” but “when” he would divorce you
> The EA only ended when the OW freaked out and threw him under the bus
> He is likely a sex addict
> He said he finds “everything you do annoying”
> He is not very helpful with the kids
> He does not make an effort to plan alone time with you
> Playful, continued correspondence between him and the OW
> Said that he doesn’t want to be with you / in the family home
> Played with your emotions - divorce one day, back together the next
> 
> Every time you have agreed to try and work it out, give it another shot, etc. he has crapped all over your offering. And now as the divorce date nears, he realizes he has lost you. And what a crappy feeling to not be wanted - not by either of the women! He played both of you to feed his own ego, and now that you have stopped playing his childish games he is throwing a fit. But that is no longer your problem, is it? Because you deserve much more than anything he could offer you at this point in your tainted relationship. He said all of the things above to tear you down and make you weak, but before he could do that you demanded more. And you will get it, as long as you move FORWARD, not BACKWARDS.
> 
> Have you ever heard that saying, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result." ??
> 
> Keep walking. Don't fall in the black hole that is your STBXH is... Your happiness awaits.


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> Deep down I have felt that I shouldn't give him another chance. He is just so convincing by what he says. He is saying everything I've wanted him to say. I hate that he is making me doubt myself after I was feeling so sure about things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your response:
"I'm going to date for the next 12 months. You're welcome to date me, too, if you want. You can prove to me that you really want me, that you've learned, that you can go 12 months without seeing another woman. If that happens, then I'll consider in August 2015 whether I want to get serious with you again. If I haven't found someone else by then."

See what he does. It will be telling.


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## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> Your response:
> "I'm going to date for the next 12 months. You're welcome to date me, too, if you want. You can prove to me that you really want me, that you've learned, that you can go 12 months without seeing another woman. If that happens, then I'll consider in August 2015 whether I want to get serious with you again. If I haven't found someone else by then."
> 
> See what he does. It will be telling.


Not a terrible idea, assuming that she even wants to date him. Doesn't sound like it.

I'd make it TWO years, though. After all, that's only fair, right?


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## Cris7

Thank you all for the amazing advice. That is what my gut told me too. He declared how he would do anything to earn back my trust. He later tells me some things that he has lied to me about, including approaching the OW after he moved out to talk about what happened because he needed closure. He bought another secret phone because he could get fired if he contacted her outside of work. The OW did not make contact. My darling stbxh then proceeded to give her two letters weeks apart basically begging her to talk to him saying he didn't want a relationship just to talk. She never took him up on it and he has since thrown the phone away. Since his declarations he has stopped contact with a female friend that he knew I had a problem with. He also is having both of his current MA's transferred because he has shared too much personal info with them. I have friends that work there and they can confirm it. He keeps swearing that he has had an awakening and that he now realizes what love is and how much he wants his family back. Is this common behavior? He is doing all of this with no promise from me that I will give him another chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip

Common.. Yes, for abusive personalities.

He's a pig. You don't date pigs. You certainly don't marry them. Keep on moving on. You're so much better off with him in the rear view mirror. 

Any doubts? Think about his next girlfriend and what she has in store for herself. Yucks! Lucky it's not gonna be you... Think about it.

Get away, do the D.


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## commonsenseisn't

Cris, 

Sorry about your situation. Concerning your response to stbx: You can either believe what his behavior the last few years has shown you or you can believe his recent words. You can't believe in both, they are mutually exclusive because people just don't have it in them, except for very rare occasions, to change as much as stbx is portraying to you. 

My limited life experience has convinced me that cheaters who cheat in one episode/confession do have the ability to repent and put it behind them and become decent people. 

On the other hand I am convinced that cheaters who cheat then confess but then cheat again, aka. serial cheaters, lose the ability to change. I'm sure there are exceptions but I think there are not enough to take a chance on. 

I hope for your sake you'll put this guy in your past. Good luck.


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## vi_bride04

Serial cheaters never change. If you give him another chance, he will only cheat on you again. 

Do you really want that?


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## Cris7

How is he a serial cheater? I'm confused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04

You said in the past 2 years he couldn't commit to your marriage. I'm assuming that means he cheated some more. Cheating more than once is a serial cheater. 

He is only wanting to make it work cuz you are dating another man.


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## commonsenseisn't

Cris7 said:


> How is he a serial cheater? I'm confused.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good question. Sorry I wasn't more articulate in my earlier post. In the context of your situation I consider your stbx a serial cheater not because of multiple partners, but because of multiple cheating events with discovery happening between events. 

What this indicates is your husbands willingness to not only crush your soul with your discovery of the initial affair, but he was also willing to continue to destroy you by continuing his affair. By his refusal to immediately cease and desist in the affair indicates the remorselessness of a serial cheater. 

A cheating spouse who witnesses the exquisite agony in the soul of their betrayed spouse and continues the cheating behavior is someone who is sealing their fate in losing the ability (and desire) to repent of such behavior. They also lose their ability to truly love you.

This is exactly the type of person you never want to allow in your life again. From what I have been able to observe this is a sentence they impose upon themselves for the remainder of their lives.


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## turnera

Cris7 said:


> Thank you all for the amazing advice. That is what my gut told me too. He declared how he would do anything to earn back my trust. He later tells me some things that he has lied to me about, including approaching the OW after he moved out to talk about what happened because he needed closure. He bought another secret phone because he could get fired if he contacted her outside of work. The OW did not make contact. My darling stbxh then proceeded to give her two letters weeks apart basically begging her to talk to him saying he didn't want a relationship just to talk. She never took him up on it and he has since thrown the phone away. Since his declarations he has stopped contact with a female friend that he knew I had a problem with. He also is having both of his current MA's transferred because he has shared too much personal info with them. I have friends that work there and they can confirm it. He keeps swearing that he has had an awakening and that he now realizes what love is and how much he wants his family back. Is this common behavior? He is doing all of this with no promise from me that I will give him another chance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What does ANY of that have to do with him moving heaven and earth to prove to you that he's remorseful and will never cheat again?

You're right. It has nothing to do with a remorseful ex-cheater.

Move along.


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## vi_bride04

He is all words. I see no actions or behaviors that indicate any sort of remorse or willingness to do what it takes to recover from multiple cheating incidents.

If you R with this man you are setting yourself up for failure.

No remorse=no recovery


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## Blue_eyes78

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/273313-i-feel-so-conflicted.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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