# Should I be suspicious



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

Hello everyone. I've got an issue that I could REALLY use some advice on. I'm sorry that this post is a little long but I keep to only the relevant facts. Any advice or thoughts is greatly appreciated. 

I recently moved abroad with my wife of 7 years (actually wife of 2 years,close live-in girlfriend of 5.) The summer before we left a few strange things happened. She changed her password on her laptop (we shared laptops as needed and certainly didn't lock each other out of anything but our emails.) Then a week or two later she asked if I had logged into her email while she was at work (I hadn't.) These were bizarre behaviors but she played off both instances and I let it go. My reasoning was that we'd be in such close quarters the following year that if anything was up it would reveal itself, and for that matter I didn't figure it'd be anything much. She's a good person and we've had a great relationship.

So we arrive overseas and we're laying in bed each on our laptops one morning and she refuses to login to email in my sight. She gets out of bed and moves saying that she just felt a sudden need for privacy that she can't explain. Once again, I let this go-- our relationship still feels strong. 

Then over the winter things get tough, our personal relationship starts to suffer (various things, I'll detail if people think it's important) and she admits to "pulling away a little bit." Throughout January and February she goes to bed later than I do, stays up on her phone ostensibly playing words with friends, wears heavy pajamas and won't make much physical contact with me. She indicates that she doesn't feel depressed but that "there is an issue" with me and that I'm "not crazy" for thinking so. She won't give any more detail and basically responds that "it's tough living abroad."

I confront her telling her I know something's up but I don't know what it is (I didn't handle this well, but just in a foot-in-mouth way; I'm not abusive at all or anything.) She says it's a problem that I don't trust her, and that it's tough living abroad (which of course it is, but I don't see how that explains what I'm seeing.)

So now we've patched things up and everything is roughly back to normal. We're getting along and being nice to each other. However the weird behavior continues a bit-- she's insinuated that I put something on her computer (which I haven't and wouldn't-- or else I wouldn't be posting in here obviously), she checks her phone in the morning at a 45 degree angle away from me with the phone close to her face, and a few other weird things. I don't call her out on this behavior because, ultimately, I want to know that something's wrong and not just make her better at hiding things.

Needless to say, none of that stuff has been present in our relationship for the 7 preceding years. We don't share email passwords but we happily check email in front of each other until now. We aren't suspicious or jealous generally. Not that it matters but I've never cheated (or come anywhere close) and I'm very aware of boundaries with female friends.

Alright so all of that sounds bad. Here's the "good" stuff:

1. She definitely loves me and wants to be with me and is making a huge sacrifice to be out here. She is also following me elsewhere next year, not the easy decision for her, but one she is making without hesitation really.

2. There isn't anything else suspicious, like absences or weird trips or anything. It's not like to be more than an EA.

Once again, any advice here would help. As I typed it it sounded pretty bad, but I need a 3rd party opinion. Let me know if there any further questions I can answer to help the advice. Am I right to worry? What should I do?


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

speaksoftly said:


> 2. There isn't anything else suspicious, like absences or weird trips or anything. It's not like to be more than an EA.


You are going to get some pretty emotional responses to this. Nothing more than an EA is what you assume. That may very well be right. THE THING IS, THERE IS NOW A THIRD PARTY SHARING IN YOUR MARRIAGE.

Your wife is telling someone intimate details about your relationship, her dissatisfaction with said relationship, and possibly sharing photos in various degrees of dress (or undress). An EA can be just as bad as a PA. There are people on here who can attest to that.

All the signs are there. Okay, it could be a female friend to whom she is complaining. But I seriously doubt it. Here's my bottom line on this: she is hiding SOMETHING. And it has to do with communications with someone else. Not good in a marriage. Yes, she is going along with overseas moves, but let me ask you this: how is your sex life? Same? Better? Worse?

An EA destroys trust in a marriage, because your spouse is confiding problems, issues, and other information to someone other than her spouse. Yes, I have close gf's with whom I share personal stuff. But we don't really hide our text msgs. or emails from our spouses.

Time to do some checking. An EA is NOT good for your marriage.


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

Thank you very much prodigal. My hope is that the first three incidents were isolated coincidences (the ones from before we came over here.) And now she is complaining about me to one of her girlfriends (actually I'm sure that one's true  it's just a question of whether that's the whole truth. The problem, of course, is that I know her girlfriends and having an email from them in her inbox wouldn't be suspicious at all (she certainly wouldn't need to read it in front of me.) So I can't shake the feeling that it's a name I'd ask about. 

Does no good ever come out of just asking straight up? I guess I already tried this, but I really don't want to dig for proof.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

speaksoftly said:


> I really don't want to dig for proof.


Why not?


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

speaksoftly said:


> Thank you very much prodigal. My hope is that the first three incidents were isolated coincidences (the ones from before we came over here.) And now she is complaining about me to one of her girlfriends (actually I'm sure that one's true  it's just a question of whether that's the whole truth. The problem, of course, is that I know her girlfriends and having an email from them in her inbox wouldn't be suspicious at all (she certainly wouldn't need to read it in front of me.) So I can't shake the feeling that it's a name I'd ask about.
> 
> Does no good ever come out of just asking straight up? I guess I already tried this, but *I really don't want to dig for proof.*


If my marriage was important to me I would dig.


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

Apart from checking her phone I can't see how... I guess my thinking (maybe naive) is that if I can't find a way to get her to be honest then something's wrong with the relationship. Anyway I'll sleep on it. Thank you for the advice everyone, and please keep it coming and ask any follow-ups if need be.

I'm off to be (it's late here) but I'll check this tomorrow.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm surprised you're asking for advice if you don't want to dig.

There are many red flags--she won't let you see her phone? 

I've read of people entering EAs through the precise word games you describe.

You need to understand something: people who are in EAs are cheating. They've checked out of the marriage and have created a secret, private, parallel fantasy life. They are sharing their hopes / dreams / fears with someone other than you. If you're ok with that, then don't dig any further.

But clearly it bothers you. Someone who is keeping secrets when they shouldn't is essentially a LIAR. It is hopeless to ask a liar directly, because all you will get is lies.

For some reason, many people have to start to drown (i.e., fully understand that they are on the brink of losing their marriage) before they are willing to "dig" for confirmation of their gut feelings. Please don't be one of those people.

BTW, if you find evidence, don't confront her immediately--if she is in an EA, confronting too early will cause her to find alternate means of communicating that will take it deeper underground. Then she can tell you it's nothing and it's all ok while keeping her parallel life on the side--and you will have little choice but to believe that until she slips again.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Find out who he is. It sounds like an affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

speaksoftly said:


> Apart from checking her phone I can't see how... I guess my thinking (maybe naive) is that if I can't find a way to get her to be honest then something's wrong with the relationship. Anyway I'll sleep on it. Thank you for the advice everyone, and please keep it coming and ask any follow-ups if need be.
> 
> I'm off to be (it's late here) but I'll check this tomorrow.


Yes of course there's something wrong with the relationship. Yes of course it's ridiculous that you should have to ask your own wife to show you the cell phone without being made to feel like you're the one with the problem and maybe you're a little insane.

Another common tactic for hiding an EA is to label the spouse as controlling. This seems to be particularly effective when used on husbands--god forbid anyone call them that. The label has the amazing effect of controlling the husband. So watch for this.

This is the thing: you can't fix your marriage if your wife has entered this secret parallel relationship. Yes, there's generally problems in a marriage where one spouse has entered an EA. But they have to exit the EA BEFORE there's any fixing to be done.

Just so you understand, I have lots of ideas for fixing marriages that are working for me (happily reconciled to my husband who was in a long-term EA). But you need to trust your gut here. You want to find an easy way out of this, but direct confrontation without any evidence never works, if your worst fears are true.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Your gut is there for a reason. Listen to it. Unless she's planning a surprise party for you, she is displaying the classic signs of a cheater. You've already notified her she's acting strange which means she's going to be more careful now. DO NOT ask her anymore or bring it up while you dig.. The change in her behavior is a red flag. Is she on Facebook? If so, find out if there's someone who cooments to her a lot or likes all her posts and vice versa. Follow her Words with Friends trail. Anyone on there she plays a lot Get acopy of her call logs and texts. Is there a number that shows up a lot??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Sounds like there's not much communication going on in your marriage.
If you feel something's up why don't you try and ask her to share her feelings with you.
Obviously her behavior is weird but when she started checking her emails in privacy and said "I need privacy", If I were you I'd kindly ask: "why are you saying this...? what's wrong? Talk to me? Do you feel like I'm invading your privacy?"
You sound like you let a lot of things slide. I'm not saying you should have pressured her and I understand when you say you don't want her to to know that you're being suspicious it's just that you sounded calm when you should have been wondering when she first stared acting weird. 

Yeah. To me sounds like the beginning of an EA.


----------



## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

double post.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Its not the beginning of an EA if he says she started getting secretive in the summer. That's almost a year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Its not the beginning of an EA if he says she started getting secretive in the summer. That's almost a year.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good point. ugh, that makes me ill.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> It's not like to be more than an EA.


Here's the problem with an EA, she's living in a fantasy world (as someone else pointed out). She's going to be comparing REAL life with *you* to FANTASY life with *him*, and you're always going to come up short!

FantasyMan doesn't stink up the bathroom, or scratch himself, or drop his clothes all over the floor, or the millions of other annoying actions that happen in REAL LIFE. FantasyMan doesn't have to listen to her snore, put up with her b!tchiness, or deal with her temper. Their love is PURE and untainted by the ups and downs of everyday life living with another person. They're ALWAYS in a good mood with each other. They never have those pesky annoying bills/in-laws/daily stresses that happen in the REAL WORLD...they're living in FANTASYLAND. OF COURSE, it's going to look wonderful and rosy. Pretty soon it's going to start to look SO wonderful and rosy that she is going to wonder why she even puts up with you (she'll only focus on the annoying, cr*ppy traits you have, not the good ones.)

'Just an EA' is the first (very large) step down a slippery slope to "ILYBINILWY." Just because she's agreed to move with you next year, doesn't mean she can't/won't change her mind by then, especially as she is already unhappy with living abroad.

Take the advice to start snooping. Maybe you DO need to install a 'keylogger' on her computer now; after all, it WAS her idea!


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Maybe you DO need to install a 'keylogger' on her computer now; after all, it WAS her idea!


Dead on. I can't imagine being suspicious that my husband would check my email, or that he would install software on my computer. It would never enter my mind...because I have nothing to hide.

BTW, my email is unpassworded on our unpassworded joint computer. My husband has read emails when Outlook was up and open on the screen. That's because I could care less if he reads ALL of my emails.

My husband--the one in the long-term EA--on the other hand, kept his phone glued to his hand, even slept with it under his pillow, and there was always a password on it. When I needed his phone, he'd always go, oops, let me check my emails, and then quickly do something that I now know was deleting his texts to his EA partner. I trusted him completely and never ever checked his phone--and this was AFTER I discovered his EA and thought it was all over. I guess I thought I should trust him--but I was completely uneducated when it came to EAs.

Then one day he accidentally texted me instead of her, and it all unravelled. I wish someone had been urging me to check up, but I had no understanding at all of EAs, how they start, how they thrive, how they function. That is water under the bridge now...


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

enoughisenough said:


> I am not your wife, obviously, but I am also very protective of my computer for no particular reason. I don't let my husband onto my laptop but my email also downloads onto our other computer which he could go straight into if he chose to. I just trust he respects that I like to keep my email private and doesn't. Not that he'd find anything interesting in there.


But would you jump to the conclusion that he's installed spy software if you're computer was acting funny? Would you ask him if he'd checked your email if somehow things didn't line up on your email account? That would never occur to me no matter how private I was with my computer. Together with everything else, it's very odd, to say the least.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

speaksoftly said:


> Apart from checking her phone I can't see how... I guess my thinking (maybe naive) is that if I can't find a way to get her to be honest then something's wrong with the relationship.


*YES, THERE IS ALREADY SOMETHING VERY WRONG WITH YOUR RELATIONSHIP.

AND, YES, YOU ARE IN DENIAL. *

You have every right to remain out there in laa-laa land, or you can confront her. And why would you do that? She is already hiding someone/something from you. And from this you expect the truth?

I hate to rock the boat and rock your world, but if it's honesty you want, you WILL start digging to find answers.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Nobody conceals their phone and holding it at weird angles while he's next to her in bed like she's doing right unless they have something to hide. That's not rocket science.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Peachy Cat (Apr 15, 2012)

She's hiding something. And I don't think it's just girl chat.

Why would it even occur to her to ask if you're spying on her? After 7 years, why would she think that?? BECAUSE SHE'S PARANOID.

You really need to dig. Just make sure you're emotionally prepared for what you could find.


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

Alright, what you guys said makes a lot of sense. It seems like it's completely about her phone these days... Is the smart move to just pick a time when she's acting suspicious and then call her out and tell her she shows me the phone or else? She keeps the phone on her (takes it with her in the bathroom even!) so I wouldn't have much of a chance to snoop even if I wanted to.

Incidentally the sex stuff has gone from bad to better, but it's definitely not the same. The emotional connection is lacking.


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

enoughisenough said:


> I'd consider the following:
> 1. Possibly she is communicating with someone she doesn't want you to know about (possibly in the form of an EA, possibly not).
> 2. She has a personal issue she is getting support for online and doesn't want you to know about it or isn't able to share it with you (email support group or something).
> 3. She feels vulnerable being abroad without established roots and support and is feeling insecure which has made her a bit distrustful.
> ...


Thanks, I think some of these suggestions are plausible for sure. She didn't act this way for 6-7 years so it's not just how she is around the computer-- there's no question something has changed. I really hope it's a support group or something-- while I don't have a candidate for who another man would be, I can certainly think of plenty of women she's been in heavy contact with. That said, it's the behavior right at the beginning of our trip that really concerns me-- the fact that the threads stretch back that far and that, even after we've gotten better she's still exhibiting the same baseline behavior she was before we got into the mess.


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

enoughisenough said:


> No, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion but if he did go into my email I would be a bit irritated. He knows I prefer to keep it private (and sometimes I order his birthday presents etc online so that would spoil the surprise).
> 
> I also wouldn't want my husband snooping through my phone but I wouldn't object if he needed to look for a contact number and went to my phone to get it. And at times I've asked him to check an incoming message for me.


This was the sort of relationship we had before summer 2011. We weren't openly sharing everything but there was a casualness about our property that indicated that we didn't have anything to hide. That changing has been the big concern for me, but you can see the additional problem it creates because it's hard to argue about casualness. Though I guess the 45 degree angle thing is pretty emphatically not-casual.

Anyway though, I would still love to find a solution to this that doesn't involve violating this trust. It was such a great thing when we had it and, weirdly, checking her phone would just feel like such a breach of that. That said she almost certainly violating this trust in some form or another, I realize :-/

Sorry to post three times in a row. You don't realize what a big help it's been having this thread and getting this off my chest. I mean, I'm abroad too and don't have anyone to talk to about this (and got pretty depressed this winter myself). Thanks so much everyone.


----------



## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

It's better to find out the truth [even if you don't like it] than be in a suspicious state of mind. The latter hurts more. 

I hope you find out the truth as soon as possible!


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

speaksoftly said:


> [Is the smart move to just pick a time when she's acting suspicious and then call her out and tell her she shows me the phone or else?


You could do this. Trip her up. But don't make it obvious. For instance, the next time you're in bed and she hold sher phone at a weird angle away from you, snuggle up to her and hug her and see her reaction. If she gets weird or puts her phone down/turns it off and acts surprised, tell her "What are you doing? Talking to a boyfriend?" as you kiss her neck. Her reaction to that moment where you hug up on her and say those words to her is going to be very telling. Thing is, you have to do it in a non-menacing way. If she averts her eyes to the side it means she's thinking about what you've said. 



speaksoftly said:


> * She keeps the phone on her (takes it with her in the bathroom even!) *so I wouldn't have much of a chance to snoop even if I wanted to.


This is the *HOLY GRAIL* of red flags. 

You say she's been acting suspect for a year. Your gut is telling you something is off. It's probably right. When someone that is close to us starts acting different--we pick up on it STAT. 

Question: does she have passcodes on her phone?

Maybe she's planning a surprise for you...but what are the odds there is a surprise for you that is taking nearly a year to plan? Cause you said she started acting funny in the summer. Well, it's spring now. 

Taking her phone into the bathroom--red flag.

You REALLY need to get a copy of her call logs. I know you said you're worried about breaching trust but this is your marriage--you have a right to protect it and to know what's going on in it.

And maybe she's not cheating, and for your sake, I hope she's not. But as someone who has cheated (and I am not proud of that), I was doing the things your wife is. 

Just saying.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I just think the support group idea is way off.

Normal spouses have conversations about the problems in their lives. There should be no part of your life that only a "mysterious support group" knows about. Even if you do get help from a support group that your husband can't provide, why can't your husband know about the problem in general??? I find any other suggestion bizarre. I am concerned that enoughisenough's suggestions are stretching plausibility to the limit here.

Here's the thing: a healthy marriage is about openness. It's about honesty. It's about sharing. Your wife has clearly created a secret parallel life of some kind with her emails and texts. I don't care if it's an imaginary one with Mickey Mouse, the point is, whoever is a the other end of those emails and texts is now the repository of her fears, hopes, and dreams. Her husband has been shut out for a long time of a huge part of her life.

We're just speculating about what's at the other end of this because WE DON'T KNOW. But truly, how much does that matter?

Again, direct confrontation doesn't work for emotional affairs. If that's what it is, she is already floating off in a fantasy land that doesn't include you. She will go very far to protect that fantasy--her bathroom texting being just a tiny example.

You are worried about pushing her away by 'snooping.' But she is already gone...


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Speaksoftly--read this thread that was just posted today where the guy just found out his wife cheated.

His wife and your wife's behaviors are basically 100% the same:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/44844-wife-committed-another-guy.html


----------



## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

speaksoftly said:


> Does no good ever come out of just asking straight up? I guess I already tried this, but I really don't want to dig for proof.


Well yes... but did you ask the right question? One obvious question is based upon a rather thin structure of maybes and what-ifs. The less obvious question is based upon absolute fact.

I'd have asked, "Why do you feel the need to hide from me? Why am I suddenly not 'safe' for you?"

"I don't know" is not an answer.


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks Jeff, Jellybeans and everyone. I definitely feel compelled to try and do this--at first--by asking the right questions or doing the right tricks (ala Jeff and Jellybeans' suggestions.) My thinking is that if I have to find an affair by digging then, for me, the relationship is over. If there's some way she can be honest with me, even if I force her hand to some degree, then I have some hope.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Jeff/BC is right on the money! Asking her if she has a 'boyfriend' is NOT going to get you the answer. She can always justify it as 'well, we've never kissed/been intimate so he isn't a BF...just a friend'.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Dude. Get a copy of her call logs. What are you waiting for?


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks again. Jellybeans, I'm going to try and elicit some sort of confession if at all possible. I admire the people here who've worked through an EA that they discovered, but I just have a hard time imagining that now. It's different for me because I've asked and been lied to (presumably) and so trying to get her to tell me is the remaining hope I have for this. She has been a lot better in the past few days, incidentally (but that doesn't change anything because this unexplained behavior-->lack of trust will always be with me unless she comes clean about it.)


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't mean to be so absolutist or moralistic about it. I am hopelessly in love with my wife, but I can't be in a relationship knowing I've got to watch my own back. I've been wronged in a relationship before and I stayed in it (and it worked well) because the girl confessed of her own volition and made a proper apology (similar to the wikianswers instructions). She took the consequences and showed herself to be a genuinely moral person who couldn't live with a lie between us and I respected her for that. I think I'm quite a ways from doing any snooping for this reason: if I find nothing I'll still wonder but also feel guilty for snooping. If I find something then she can no longer confess and that means I've removed her ability to truly do the right thing. This probably sounds nuts I know, but I'll update as things progress. Thanks again for the support her and I'll try to give some back on the boards.


----------



## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

You have an opportunity to potentially nip this in the bud and save your marriage, but you are not going to, out of some sense of chivalry that your wife, and others, will only see as weakness.

I don't see this ending well.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I know it's painful to face the truth. We're a group of total strangers, we have no reason to mislead you about our gut feelings here. 

You have zero plausible explanations for her behavior. What a sad situation you are in and I see no end in sight. If it were me, the sight of my husband tilting the phone away for the 1,000 time would make me cry.

I know you think you love your wife like crazy, but what part of her are you loving? Only her outermost shell. She is not sharing her most intimate self with you. You are being actively prevented by her from loving who she truly is deep inside. 

This is not a marriage.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

My husband and I both have all our passwords to our email, eBay, amazon, Facebook, ect... on a packet in the file cabinet next to the computer. Neither one of us hide anything from each other.

It sounds like your wife is up to no good with her sneaky behavior. I can understand wanting privacy, but not sneaking off with computer in hand. Privacy to me is a bubble bath with the door locked or going into another room and watching television/reading a book without interruption.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Taking the phone to the bathroom everytimr is a huge red flag.

Definitely something going on that she knows is out of bounds in a marriage, hence her extreme measure to cover it up.

Her being worried that you are reading her email and key logging her sounds like she is bein coached by someone on avoiding you finding out,

Is there time when she might be alone adding sonething like skype to talk with him (I'm assuming an AP). You might try a var in her car or the bedroom. A hidden cam during thedaymight catch her too.

The sex picking up might just her transferring her desire for him to you. Or it could be that she got more comfortable compartmentalizing the affair.

If you are really against snooping, then you can try confronting and demanding, but expect her to lie.

I thnk you try calling her on it and demand to either have her come clean and right then and there show you the phone, or else. Explain to her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

enoughisenough said:


> You think? I think it's very plausible. I'd be annoyed if my husband read my email and checked my computer history because I want privacy with a support group I belong to. So my suggestion there is perfectly plausible.


But _he_ never checked her email, and he never did anything to her computer--_she_ accused him of these things out of paranoia.

Just to be clear, are you saying that you would jump to the conclusion that your husband had done these things to you, if you had email or computer issues?

The thought would never cross my mind.

If it crossed my spouse's mind, I'd interpret it for what it was: a guilty conscience.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I guess I should first say that I am a VERY direct person and I don't tolerate bad behavior. 

The very best scenario (which is still pretty bad) is that your wife is discussing her problems with a female friend instead of you. As you suspect, though, it's probably more than that. 

The more realistic scenario is an emotional affair, which is a distraction that keeps her from being fully present in your relationship. That was already mentioned, and so was the way EAs create a false idea of what "reality" should be. Unless the EA ends, your relationship will continue to erode. 

There are a few ways you could confront it: 

1. Have your plan for how you'll respond if she refuses to have a relationship based on openness, trust, and honesty. Does that mean a temporary separation? Divorce? A night in a hotel? Will you choose to accept secrecy as part of the relationship? You have to decide. Then next time she behaves furtively, tell her that her behavior is damaging her trust, and that you want to see the names of the people she is messaging. If she has nothing to hide, there's no reason for her not to show you. If she says you're being controlling, agree. "Yes, I am trying to get back some control since you've decided not to give me the openness that makes me feel like everything is under control." Be prepared to stick to the plan you created beforehand, because if you don't, you'll be demonstrating that it's ok to let you throw a tantrum because you don't REALLY plan to uphold your boundaries. (This is the route I'd take first.)

2. Get online access to your cell phone bill and review the numbers called and messages sent. You can print them up and ask her to go through them with you or you can match up the numbers yourself by looking at her contacts list when you have access to her phone. Google can also be your friend here. Again, have your plan of action ready and be prepared to uphold your boundaries if you see more suspicious behavior. (I also wouldn't hesitate to do this.)

3. You can use a keystroke logger, but this is a slippery slope that I don't fully recommend. For one thing, it can be illegal and if she discovers you've used one, she can file charges against you. For another, if we discover that our partner has said something unflattering, even if it's not related to our suspicions, we may become obsessed with finding out more. This is very unhealthy, in my opinion. If you choose to use one, I recommend setting a definite timeline and frequency like "I will review it once a week for six weeks. If I see nothing during that time, I will remove it and acknowledge to myself that I was wrong." Again, you need to be able to uphold your word on it, so if you are likely to dig in and obsess if you find information, this may not be a good choice. 

Good luck. You sound like a good man who deserves plenty of admiration from his wife.


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks everyone, once again.

Kathy I really appreciate your advice, and I'll look for the opportunity to try step one. I agree with you about the keylogger issue; it just feels too much like spying on someone's brain or something.

An update: Things have gotten vastly better in all areas since I posted last. Significant emotional connection, physical, less secrecy (she actually seems to be kind of offering now, showing me the phone screen when she's on it, leaving her computer around, etc.) It's a sudden change and it's interesting because it didn't come from me, but at the same time it's very much appreciated and it feels good to be back in a real relationship. I'm going to schedule marriage counseling and bring up the history within that context and ask her to explain I think. Does that sound reasonable?

I'm not taking the "catch her in the act and demand to know what's up" stuff off the table, but I haven't seen any opportunities lately so I'm not sure I'll be able to do it soon. But I can be patient because I don't think things are getting any worse and we've still got a few more months here (physically away from whoever it is.)


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

speaksoftly said:


> I'm going to schedule marriage counseling and bring up the history within that context and ask her to explain I think. Does that sound reasonable?


sorry if I missed something--has marriage counseling been broached before? What was her reaction if so?

If you haven't brought up counseling before, and you plan to talk about it soon, I'd be curious to see how she responds.

I would not go to all the trouble to have counseling and then fail to bring up the long-term weirdness about hiding the phone and the computer. I think it is the main issue that has given you so much anxiety all this time, and you deserve some explanation for it. A counselor is also going to find her behavior odd and should be able to help you detect whether her answers are truthful, or whether there is more to it than she is willing to say.


----------



## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Your gut is there for a reason. Listen to it. Unless she's planning a surprise party for you, she is displaying the classic signs of a cheater. You've already notified her she's acting strange which means she's going to be more careful now. DO NOT ask her anymore or bring it up while you dig.. The change in her behavior is a red flag. Is she on Facebook? If so, find out if there's someone who cooments to her a lot or likes all her posts and vice versa. Follow her Words with Friends trail. Anyone on there she plays a lot Get acopy of her call logs and texts. Is there a number that shows up a lot??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

h e l l awaits


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Which phone is she using?

Can you check her texts? Or are they deleted?

This should be moved to CWI by the way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Expect her to lie if you ask her anything. Or she might tell the truth if she is innocent. So in any case you are going to get nothing but denials from her, which will either be the truth or lie.

Any confrontation will drive things underground making it much more difficult to get to the truth. And you do have the right to the truth! Yes, you do have the right to the truth. You might see it as a breach of trust to find out what is going using some kind of spy tech (VAR, keylogger, phone text logger, etc), but she is blatantly in breach of trust right now! Her sneaky actions are dishonest actions.

Her recent change in behavior back towards being better could just mean that she has found an alternative communications method. Perhaps a prepaid phone or a secret email, etc.

Or all of this could be innocent. She is just venting innocently to a friend back home, or she's planning the anniversary surprise of the century for you. That's the problem with not having the facts, you are in a limbo with multiple possible interpretations.

Either stay quiet for now and observe her, or apply some spy tech. Don't accuse without iron clad proof! Marriage counseling might be helpful.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Dude your wife is cheating on you. 

Stop being so philosophical and delicate about it. Your intellect and beta-behavior will not get you anywhere with a woman who is most likely deep into an EA.

Find evidence and man up. What's wrong with you? You're waiting for her to confess on her own?!! That's like asking a dead person to change their will in your favor!


----------



## speaksoftly (Apr 24, 2012)

So Marriage counseling has been brought up before and she's been willing, certainly never dismissive of the idea. I'll see how it goes.

As for Synthetic, I appreciate what you're getting at here and if my problem was lack of gumption I think your tack would be the right one. I might have a flaw of being too trusting, but I've got established boundaries for what I think is right in a relationship and I really hesitate to break those (and breaking them because someone on the internet told me to would be pretty "beta".) One thing I intend to do in the marriage counseling is reestablish these boundaries and get a sense of what's allowed in our relationship and what's not, including privacy. I should mention that I'm not afraid to find out anything at this point-- I'm in a good place and I just want to know the truth. To me it's just completely a question of: does she tell me and we salvage the relationship and our trust or do I have find something and have it be the end.


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> To me it's just completely a question of: does she tell me and we salvage the relationship and our trust or do I have find something and have it be the end.


That's not true. It's not that simple. It never is.

You're clearly trying to be in control of a situation that you have very little insight into. You can be compared to a driver who signs into driving a vehicle to its destination without knowing whether the vehicle is a car, boat, plane or a space shuttle. You can't sign up to live in a lie. 

Your boundaries are absolutely meaningless if your wife is hiding things from you, and SHE IS. If one of your boundaries was to have no secrets in your marriage, then you'd be cornering your wife until she told you the truth or snooping on her until you found out. That's a boundary you MUST implement in your marriage before the rest of your boundaries. 



> I should mention that I'm not afraid to find out anything at this point


Do you honestly believe yourself when you say that? That's almost impossible. Who in their right mind wouldn't be afraid of finding out their wife has been cheating on them? If you're not afraid of that, then something bigger is going on in your life or there is a history that you haven't mentioned yet.

Sorry to sound harsh man. There are may men like you who mistake their fear of finding out with "being trusting". You're not an overly trusting person. You sound fearful of finding out the whole truth. Those are 2 different things.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

:iagree:


----------



## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

You also have to consider what is best for her. Would she be better off if the marriage fails? Do you not have a moral duty to do what you can to end this before it gets out of hand? For her sake as well as yours?


----------



## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

> An update: Things have gotten vastly better in all areas since I posted last. Significant emotional connection, physical, less secrecy (she actually seems to be kind of offering now, showing me the phone screen when she's on it, leaving her computer around, etc.) It's a sudden change and it's interesting because it didn't come from me, but at the same time it's very much appreciated and it feels good to be back in a real relationship. I'm going to schedule marriage counseling and bring up the history within that context and ask her to explain I think. Does that sound reasonable?


I smell a rat. Is there a keylogger she placed on YOUR computer? You don't seem overly suspicious over nothing. And this has been going on for a while. Why the sudden change since you started posting here? Do you have a laptop she has or has ever had access to? She may be reading every word you type. Something does not seem right about this sudden turn of events after a pattern of suspicous behavior.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah, I agree. A rat. She goes all open suddenly. Look for a burner phone or a secret email account she only accesses through work or through private browser mode. May ways to hide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

