# Tarring with the same brush - how to move on?



## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

I had a 'relationship' (questionable definition) with a work colleague some 19 years my senior. Sex based (though I guess not 100% but I don't think he'd have continued without it. This all being over 30 years ago. I later married, nice chap, virgin at 40, happy to be with someone with a sexual interest (me). Years down the line I'm finding myself about to leave the marriage, e-relationship develops with my now OH. 
To get to the thread title. I frequently rejected his sexual advances because (i guess, I now recognise) I associate men and women and nothing but sex. 
Way down the line I know this was unfair, I'm understanding that some men see sex as emotionally as some women do (though, having asked, this doesn't apply 100% to my OH!!!) .... so how do I persuade him it would be good to move on from this? (not to mention the myriad of other issues!!!)


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

madimoff said:


> I had a 'relationship' (questionable definition) with a work colleague some 19 years my senior. Sex based (though I guess not 100% but I don't think he'd have continued without it. This all being over 30 years ago. I later married, nice chap, virgin at 40, happy to be with someone with a sexual interest (me). Years down the line I'm finding myself about to leave the marriage, e-relationship develops with my now OH.
> To get to the thread title. I frequently rejected his sexual advances because (i guess, I now recognise) I associate men and women and nothing but sex.
> Way down the line I know this was unfair, I'm understanding that some men see sex as emotionally as some women do (though, having asked, this doesn't apply 100% to my OH!!!) .... so how do I persuade him it would be good to move on from this? (not to mention the myriad of other issues!!!)


How do you persuade him to see your way as right?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Mom6547 said:


> How do you persuade him to see your way as right?


Good one mom. :iagree:

To the OP I know it's hard to grasp but trying to be "right" all the time is what just about killed my marriage.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Good one mom. :iagree:
> 
> To the OP I know it's hard to grasp but trying to be "right" all the time is what just about killed my marriage.



That is, I firmly believe, a pair of the least appropriate comments ever seen in a specific thread. I'm not saying, you understand, that there's not a grain (or bushel) of truth in mentioning right fights ref. me BUT in this context, bleugh...... my own fault for using the phrase 'how do I persuade him', I guess.

I took way too long to recognise the hurt it (the tarring) had caused, the harm it had done. I've accepted, acknowledged, apologised. I'm just looking for an indication as to how he might move on. Presupposing your next answers might be 'what have I done to SHOW I'm sorry', well I'm certainly trying to but it's proving pretty hard to restore a decent sex life single handed when (a) he is understandably reticent to do anything that might happen when it's not emotionally close/perfect or whatever for his reasons as well as the tarring and (b) we're not together fulltime because (c) he doesn't want for various reasons to live fulltime away from our home country and (d) on top of that, I'm also attempting to address other behaviours of mine that haven't helped - micro-managing being one......... 
I do realise, or am at least on the first steps of realising, the harm I've done. He's recognised and taken action over probably his behaviours which were the most obviously bad for us. 
I suppose I just want fixed, and the relationship fixed, *_now_* because it's gone on bad so long and we're into our 50s and our son is suffering our/my problems. 

nb magnoliagal.. as I said at the start, I'm hearing so much of that it makes me think I have to do some soulsearching about it, though whether I actually understand agreeing to disagree sufficiently deeply is a whole different ballgame. childhood. parents. arguing. me child being mediator, wanting fairness, wanting things that were said understood, that kind of thing.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Madimoff, you seem to have a “victim mentality”. And you seem to project whatever was done to you in the past by a man onto ALL men. If that is the case, you will be paranoid.

If the above is true, I think you are very wise to recognise it and have a wish to do something about it. You have a lot of work to do, start by researching “victim personality”.

You have probably been Persecuting your H because of what was done to you in your past and because he is a man. If that is the case then your H is probably in fear of you. He very much more than likely actually fears you.

How does your H move on? I’m sorry to say but he moves on by getting as far away from you as he possibly can and has as little contact with you as he possibly can. Even then it will take your H quite a while to repair himself and come to terms with what you did to him.

Your journey starts by forgiving yourself. Once you’ve recognised the need to do that and once you have forgiven yourself you will then see the sense, the greater humanity in forgiving others.

Well done for voicing this stuff. Your new journey simply could not begin unless you’d recognised the error of your ways. Some “victims” never see it and end up bitter, lonely old people. You have a chance and you’re like a student whose ready to learn and the teacher will surely appear from somewhere to guide you.

Of course I could be totally wrong about the above, I had difficulty trying to understand your first post.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Madimoff, you seem to have a “victim mentality”. And you seem to project whatever was done to you in the past by a man onto ALL men. If that is the case, you will be paranoid.
> 
> If the above is true, I think you are very wise to recognise it and have a wish to do something about it. You have a lot of work to do, start by researching “victim personality”.
> 
> ...


On your last point, I sometimes burble and know it.... so I accept I don't always make my points as clear as I might. Plus thoughts are often a work in progress.
As to projecting experiences on to all men, no I haven't - my ex-h was a good friend and very inexperienced sexually so there weren't really, even in 15years of marriage, very many if any obviously sexual actions/overtures etc from him. Lovemaking was by mutual consent, obviously, but it wasn't ever a highly sexed marriage because he wasn't a highly sexual male. My OH is a sexual being, that's one of the things that attracted me to him. He found me sexy, that in itself is sexy, etc etc. 
Whenever communications got fraught, though - usually about 'outside' stuff, family, etc., I would project those unhappinesses into our relationship by withdrawing from intimacy and his attempts to show he was still interested in me were taken by me as meaning I was just a sex object. So no, I didn't 'take out' my earlier experiences on my ex-h but I did on my OH. Now, having recognised just what that meant to him and his sexual self-esteem, etc., I'm having to come to terms with that it might take a long time for him to move on (or never happen) .
btw I really don't know how relevant this is to anyone who's actually contributing to this thread, but I was raped when I was 19 and during the period I was 'with' the older work colleague.......


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

madimoff said:


> That is, I firmly believe, a pair of the least appropriate comments ever seen in a specific thread. I'm not saying, you understand, that there's not a grain (or bushel) of truth in mentioning right fights ref. me BUT in this context, bleugh...... my own fault for using the phrase 'how do I persuade him', I guess.


I am sorry you feel that way. To my perspective having read it several times and having "gotten" it are two different things. (That I remember very well from being in your shoes.) I firmly believe you have not yet "gotten" it.



> I took way too long to recognise the hurt it (the tarring) had caused, the harm it had done. I've accepted, acknowledged, apologised. I'm just looking for an indication as to how he might move on.


You don't. You look to HIM to find out what HE needs. 



> Presupposing your next answers might be 'what have I done to SHOW I'm sorry', well I'm certainly trying to but it's proving pretty hard to restore a decent sex life single handed when (a) he is understandably reticent to do anything that might happen when it's not emotionally close/perfect or whatever for his reasons as well as the tarring and (b) we're not together fulltime because (c) he doesn't want for various reasons to live fulltime away from our home country and (d) on top of that, I'm also attempting to address other behaviours of mine that haven't helped - micro-managing being one.........
> I do realise, or am at least on the first steps of realising, the harm I've done. He's recognised and taken action over probably his behaviours which were the most obviously bad for us.
> I suppose I just want fixed, and the relationship fixed, *_now_* because it's gone on bad so long and we're into our 50s and our son is suffering our/my problems.
> 
> nb magnoliagal.. as I said at the start, I'm hearing so much of that it makes me think I have to do some soulsearching about it,


I guess I would suggest searching your soul less and his more.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> I am sorry you feel that way. To my perspective having read it several times and having "gotten" it are two different things. (That I remember very well from being in your shoes.) I firmly believe you have not yet "gotten" it.
> 
> 
> *You don't. You look to HIM to find out what HE needs.
> ...


Mom - which shoes? The quasi-colleague/older man 'relationship' or doing the tarring? What do you think I haven't yet got? 
And to your last two points, how?
Please don't dis me for asking what might be naive questions, I really do want to do stuff to sort us - if indeed possible - so the more info/suggestions/detail you can give the better.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

question, that might help me make sense of this thread, what's an "OH"?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

madimoff said:


> nb magnoliagal.. as I said at the start, I'm hearing so much of that it makes me think I have to do some soulsearching about it, though whether I actually understand agreeing to disagree sufficiently deeply is a whole different ballgame. childhood. parents. arguing. me child being mediator, wanting fairness, wanting things that were said understood, that kind of thing.


It isn't agreeing to disagree it's seeing the world through another's eye's. From your background you are reliving your childhood all over in your marriage. I get it I did it too. At some point though you have to stop playing victim and start being different. It's a choice really.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Lon said:


> question, that might help me make sense of this thread, what's an "OH"?


Other half. Sorry. Acronyms can be good or a pain....


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

That helps, but I guess I'm still not sure what you are asking advice on/for...

So this is how I interpret your situation: you were objectified sexually when younger, even assaulted, but met a man you were comfortable with and married him... the marriage grew cold and you had an emotional exit affair and got divorced and are now with the man you were having the A with, except you don't think you can meet his sexual needs and want to end the relationship?

Please forgive me if I got this all wrong... so are you asking for 1) advice how to end the relationship? 2) Or has it ended already and he is still invested in the relationship? 3) Or is it your XH that is still invested? 4)Or are you asking how YOU can move forward?

my thought: 1) if you want to end the relationship just tell him and move out. 2) if he is still invested you just need to end all contact with him 3)same as #2 4) just realize not all men are equal or the same, there is a compatible fit for you out there, whether or not it is easy to find is another question, but just find the happiness in you and love will surround you.

For me, sex is an emotional event, I realized after W left and told me, that for her it wasn't, it was mostly physical - she is sad to leave because sex was so great, but not frequent enough for her (anything less than daily was unsatisfactry to her) - I was always afraid to disappoint and because I had to put so much in it could never keep up with her, and it took a long time to recharge emotionally (as the marriage degraded it took longer and longer). The thing is I could have kept up with the physical part, I have no problem taking care of myself daily, except I always felt she would have expected to be just as good and it wouldn't have been.

So just stop tarring but realize that for some men they just want to take care of themself and may be very unsatisfactory except to the easiest of women to climax, others want a deep emotional, tantric connection every time, and I'd presumed most happily married guys would want a varied mix of sexual activity.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Lon said:


> That helps, but I guess I'm still not sure what you are asking advice on/for...
> 
> So this is how I interpret your situation: you were objectified sexually when younger, even assaulted, but met a man you were comfortable with and married him... the marriage grew cold and you had an emotional exit affair and got divorced and are now with the man you were having the A with, except you don't think you can meet his sexual needs and want to end the relationship?
> 
> ...


None of the above, really, in terms of the scenario. I'll try to be brief. Your summary of 'bit on the side', rape, comfortable marriage, e-communication, new relationship, ....... 10 years..... now realised, hopefully NOT too late, that although he had his major parts to play in our problems, I am equally or potentially more responsible and one of those reasons is tarring him with being 'only after sex' (as per the early colleague/older man thing).
So I don't want out, I'm trying to do what I can to ensure he doesn't want out. That's about as brief as I can be. 
Ref sex, by the way, I (now) realise that both men and women can and do accept that within a long term committed relationship there can be many flavours of sex, all valid at given times. That wasn't always my understanding, at least not truly. I'd have paid lip service to sound clever, but not really 'got' it. I just want to get to the situation when we can be so comfortable with 'making love' that we can 'f&ck' if you get what I mean! Mind you it's more serious than that, probably, in terms of staying together or not, but that would be the ideal.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Ah, by "moving on" I thought you meant move on from you, as if you wanted to know the past men your life were healing...

now I understand what you are saying. He is still with you, perhaps he enjoys the challenge of having his sexual advances turned down, maybe he thinks you are doing "hard to get", or are trying to reward his behavior by offering or withholding sex. Or perhaps he really is just frustrated and reaching the end of his rope. I guess it would be important to just realize you have different sexual needs, maybe its just incompatible or perhaps you can find a way to make it work for both.

Sounds like some good communication with him would go a long way, couples counseling could be very beneficial, and if either of you have an "unhealthy" view of sex, individual counseling would also be beneficial, perhaps it is a matter of training each of you to not present triggers or react to those triggers, so that you can have a physical trust in each other and really start enjoying sexual activity no matter how, when or how often it comes about.


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