# I've been a nice guy pushover...



## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Ok, I admit, i have been a nice guy pushover type. I was looking another thread in the thinking about divorce folder and there was a link for a pdf document "No More Nice Guy." Skimmed it just now. I'll read in full. My dilemma is posted in the Thinking of divorce folder...http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/275706-my-situation-salvageable.html

I learned to watch what I say because of my wife's outbursts and lack of emotion control. I pretty much closed off most of my life from her because of her reactions. The kids also watch what they say as well because of her reactions. 

I have always been a people pleaser. But.. I am very open to change and looking at my behavior and choosing healthy behavior. 

For example, it was always easier to masturbate than ask for sex, as I learned, that only came around every 6 to 8 months. My initial requests were denied, so over time I learned to not even ask, just take care of myself. When the raging and abuse got bad, I sometimes turned to porn. Now that we are separated, thats not really an issue, but after intense rages that she would go into for hours at time, I used that to decompress. 

So can you name some resources for me to get healthier? I'm thinking codependency enters here somewhere as well. 

Any tips or books or websites would be appreciated. It might not help in the current situation, but might somewhere down the road.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You need to get into counseling that is specific for victims of abuse. You know that she was abusive yet you did nothing to protect yourself for years. You need more help than a book can give you.

There is a book that might help some, but it's written about men who are abusive for female victims. If you just read it by flipping the genders it might help you. "Why Does He Do That".

I


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Codependent No More

the NMMNG book has a website with a forum you should join

Individual therapy to learn to stop being afraid, find out what you are afraid of

Find ONE thing that you want to stand up for yourself for, and vow to yourself that you will not bend on it. Tell us what it is, and we'll show you how to do it. You'll start with that one thing, and once it becomes second nature, you'll add another thing. And then another. Until you're no longer being a Nice Guy.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

As the self appointed armchair psychologist here  I can't help but wonder about your choice of words regarding your wife's emotional state. I know that personality disorders are diagnosed on a regular basis here but even a broken clock is right twice a day...

Have you considered the possibility that your wife is suffering from a personality disorder?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

john117 said:


> As the self appointed armchair psychologist here  I can't help but wonder about your choice of words regarding your wife's emotional state. I know that personality disorders are diagnosed on a regular basis here but even a broken clock is right twice a day...
> 
> Have you considered the possibility that your wife is suffering from a personality disorder?


What I want to know is if we can use the diagnosis handed out here to get on disability? :wink2:


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

redwing_10 said:


> Ok, I admit, i have been a nice guy pushover type. I was looking another thread in the thinking about divorce folder and there was a link for a pdf document "No More Nice Guy." Skimmed it just now. I'll read in full. My dilemma is posted in the Thinking of divorce folder...http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/275706-my-situation-salvageable.html
> 
> I learned to watch what I say because of my wife's outbursts and lack of emotion control. I pretty much closed off most of my life from her because of her reactions. The kids also watch what they say as well because of her reactions.
> 
> ...


Find a counselor. commit to weekly visits for at least a couple months then once or twice a month. Therapy is not just for crazy people, and everyone can benefit from working their sh!t out. I do.

Frankly someone as self aware as you are has very good prospects to move beyond the codependency and just being a general chump. But you have to stones to know the best way to attack this is with someone that helps people professionally and not on your own. If nothing else, the presents of that person in the conversation, that you might otherwise just have with yourself, will keep you accountable to make improvements and feel better.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

EleGirl: Yes, I allowed it to happen and i did not protect myself for years. I also have huge regrets not leaving way sooner because the kids were witness to it. Huge regrets there. Reason? I can guess and be fairly sure it was my childhood. Tyrant stepfather, who was very abusive in many ways. Verbally for sure. I was told many times how stupid I was and how I would never amount to anything. In the end, I graduated with a medical degree after having served 5 years in the Air Force, assigned as a bomb dog handler for Air Force One. I worked all the way thru school as a cashier in a grocery store. And.... after graduation, I continued to work as a cashier. Those old voices of my stepdad came back telling me how stupid I was, and even though I finished the degree, I still felt I wasn't smart enough. I went into counseling and worked thru it and now have my own practice.

Turnera: I have the Codependent No More and have read it, I'll have to go thru it again. And when I think I need someone to talk to, I do go to IC. As I see issues come up, I will go in for a "circuit check." I am a huge believer in IC.

John117: I have thoguth for a few years that my wife might have some personality disorder. Very traumatic childhood, and illness runs in her family. Her father was ill in some way. Not sure. Brother has some very mild form of autism. He works and funtions well but ticks at times. I am not a psych, but if I had to guess, I would think high fuctioning borderline might be close. I also listened to something about "Chaos Kids" and how they view the world and this is very possible as well. She is not willing to admit there is an issue, at least to me. 

ScrambledEggs: I will start going again. I like to go when I have discovered something about myself that I need to address. Once that problem is addressed, i stop going unitl the next problem comes up.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Stop Walking on Eggshells, Paul Mason & Randi Kreger


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

redwing_10 said:


> EleGirl: Yes, I allowed it to happen and i did not protect myself for years. I also have huge regrets not leaving way sooner because *the kids were witness to it.* Huge regrets there. Reason? I can guess and be fairly sure *it was my childhood. Tyrant stepfather, who was very abusive in many ways.*


Guess what? Your kids get to continue the cycle because they, like you, experienced it. And their parent (you) didn't protect them from seeing it. Kids BECOME what they see growing up. Let them see better.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

And masturbating after her intense rages to decompress is no bueno. 

That will reinforce your bad wiring of accepting abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Zillard: Ok, I'll check it out. Looked at the Amazon reviews. Sounds very appropriate. And your comments about my way of dealing with things then is well taken. It was an awful place to be and I will never be there again. 

Turnera: Exactly. I feel bad enough about this already and need to set a better example. 

Admission: I will have to say this... and its sort of sad I didn't see it sooner. I am a christian believer who believed the only reason for divorce was adultery. So I thought I had to stick it out because this was not the case. However...someone pointed out... would you stay married to a murder? Or a drug dealer? So in some ways, I think christians need to really think about this because this is dysfunctional to believe adultery is the only reason to divorce, IMHO.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

redwing_10 said:


> ScrambledEggs: I will start going again. I like to go when I have discovered something about myself that I need to address. Once that problem is addressed, i stop going unitl the next problem comes up.


Do you wait for a tooth ache before you go to the dentist?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> What I want to know is if we can use the diagnosis handed out here to get on disability? :wink2:



If personality disorders could get one on disability we would solve the unemployment problem in a hurry


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Join the forums at nomoremrniceguy.com/forums


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

redwing_10 said:


> I learned to watch what I say because of my wife's outbursts and lack of emotion control. I pretty much closed off most of my life from her because of her reactions. The kids also watch what they say as well because of her reactions.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


They say we tend to pair up with people of similar levels of dysfunction. You have put up with a lot of abuse, which speaks to the level of your Nice Guy pathology. Nice Guys tend to pair up with personality disordered women, frequently women who were sexually abused as a child, and/or who have serious personality disorders.

There is a real phenomenon of being locked into a death spiral together. Codependency is one descriptor, but it really goes deeper because you are both dependent on the other, so perhaps it is co-codependency.

I strongly suggest you seek a good therapist for yourself. You will be going through a range of emotions as you work through the Nice Guy issues, and you need a decent counselor. You might consider doing phone sessions with Dr. Glover himself, or finding a local therapist who is familiar with NG issues.

The forums at nomoremrniceguy.com/forums may help some, too.


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## redwing_10 (Mar 29, 2012)

Thor: Thank you for the insight. Your comment about nice guys pairing with personality disordered women rings true. Your "death spiral" comment is especially scary, since I have felt that, but didn't have a name for it. Here I am, staying with my dad, ten months now, with the equity of the house in escrow, while she lives in an apartment with our 27 year old very under employed son, and our daughter, who I need to set a better example for. And my wife would be content to live this way indefinitely. And my head is up my behind thinking things will get better or she will come to her senses. I really do have to know why I would tolerate this, so counseling is in order. Thank you for the comments. I feel like I am in a death spiral now, and want out. I have contacted my attorney.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Listen, man. Books are great. But they're only great if you are in a place where you will do the hard things they say.

Are you?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

redwing_10 said:


> Admission: I will have to say this... and its sort of sad I didn't see it sooner. I am a christian believer who believed the only reason for divorce was adultery. So I thought I had to stick it out because this was not the case. However...someone pointed out... would you stay married to a murder? Or a drug dealer? So in some ways, I think christians need to really think about this because this is dysfunctional to believe adultery is the only reason to divorce, IMHO.


Well, actually... the bible says that there are TWO acceptable reasons for divorce: adultery and abuse. And I think what you're enduring qualifies as emotional abuse.

The fact of the matter is that the bible also says that spouses are to love one another as they love Christ, and that spouses are supposed to treat one another with respect, and all that good stuff. Exactly what's NOT happening in your marriage at the moment.


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## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

You should apologize to your wife for being a quarter of a man she needed you to be. Im not saying this to be a jerk, just to help you realize that every healthy woman walking this globe would hold resentment over it. No more mr nice guy is a great start, The Manual: what women want and how to give it to them - yeah, it sounds super PUA, but turns out to be anything but. It talks in depth about assuming a frame of mind that is natural to a man, and why women find that attractive. No trickery, rehearing pickup lines or making up stories. Just solid information, that actually works. Also, many recommend Married Man Sex Primer or something along those lines, however I didn't personally read it, but it may be worth a look.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The Manual: What Women Want and How to Give It to Them: W. Anton: 9781456494551: Amazon.com: Books

"The method presented to get girls *works on ALL women, no matter what language they speak, how young they are*, or what type of relationship you might be looking for. It's universal because it's based on natural attraction, *what ALL women are hardwired to respond to*, and attraction is an emotion, not a decision.

You can use it to get a sexy girlfriend, one night stands or even long-term relationships. You can use it to find true love, a soul mate, or just casual sex without commitment. And one of its best benefits is that it will make women want to be with you and appreciate you. *The girls you get will REMAIN attractive even after you have formed a sexual relationship with them, because they are so happy to be with you. While most other guys who do get (average) girls, often find themselves with an average female who becomes even less attractive over time as she stops taking care of herself completely*."


:rofl:


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Redwing, here is a quote I that I think is appropriate for you
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.

Johnny Cash

The Man in Black was Wise. Concentrate on moving forward. You have appointments with a counselor and a lawyer. Good. That's the path out from where you are and it is the beginning of the end of the death spiral. 
You owe no one an apology or even an explanation. She is responsible for her own actions and her happiness or lack thereof. The past is past.
Get moving.
You're burning daylight.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

I was too bro, it's ok. 

It's actually really easy to change this attitude.

Read No more Mr. Nice Guy & The Married Man's Sex Life Primer.

Then in real life do this:

1) Try and become less reactionary. Think before you speak but more importantly, think before you agree or say yes to anything. Become a "no" man" BEFORE a "yes" man, without losing enthusiasm or optimism. 

2) Baby steps and be gentle. You might forget or mess up. Don't worry. It's all good, try again...but don't apologize! Stop saying sorry and start saying F U. You are not evil!!!!!!!!

3) Put yourself first. F the rest dude. There is nothing wrong with being selfish unless you are always crabby. Zing! I am not saying cut in front of ppl at coffee shops but ppl can "get it themselves", if you know what I mean (if someone you know or a stranger is always asking for favors and you are always saying yes). Gain a little pride in being a ruthless **** but think of it more as being assertive and a leader rather then something negative. 

4) Work on your eye contact. Start with yourself. You shouldn't be afraid of the mirror. Then, try with friends and family. Then with strangers and finally with women. Maybe you don't have a problem in this area, but being able to hold eye contact will eventually build more confidence and comfort and you'll be able to speak your mind and heart without fear. 

5) Write down a list of your boundaries, and then just basic things in life that you refuse to let people walk over you anymore. It can be anything...

6) Stop watching porn. The **** rots your brain and creates unnecessary subconscious guilt/shame.. 

7) You probably have some energy blocks near your throat chakra and I would recommend a shamanic healing asap. I would also recommend doing some very personal psychedelics in a safe environment like salvia, DMT, iboga, peyote or mushrooms, depending on the law in your area and availability. These organic substances have SO MUCH power to help you understand why you think the way you do. They also help destroy ego and fear. Therapy is great and all but if YOU want to dig inside your own mind vs someone else, well, this is a powerful although scary way to deal with rooted issues....but usually highly effective. 

8) Exercising will help develop self-control and determination.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

pragmaster said:


> I was too bro, it's ok.
> 
> It's actually really easy to change this attitude.
> 
> ...


:iagree: with all but #7 which I have no personal experience with.

Nice Guys need to push beyond what they are comfortable with, into the territory of feeling like they are being selfish. The norm for the Nice Guy is too far over to the Nice side, so what is in fact a healthy middle ground feels to him like it is way over there on the selfish jerk side.

So he needs to say no more often, he needs to express his dis-satisfaction with other people, and he needs to make the selfish choice more often. It feels odd at first because it isn't natural to the Nice Guy. Just do it!


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

redwing_10 said:


> I have always been a people pleaser.


What has that got you thusfar. Many many moons ago, I was a people pleaser but here's the thing. You come to realize you are a people please because you think its a way to get along and avoid confrontation. You avoid confrontation but you're thought of weak, cowardly doormat with no backbone. Other names for a people please male is a shoe shine boy, slop jar cleaner, azz licker, etc. So in you effort to look like the helpful good guy everybody likes, you look like a dork. Let me know when you find a woman that thinks that's sexy.


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