# Chemistry - immediate or grows over time?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Curious how people feel about chemistry. 

Do you believe it is immediate, like its either there or it isn't?

Or do you believe it can grow over time?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Instant gratification has certainly always been around, but up until fairly recently, it's been kept in check by societal expectations - behavior prior to marriage and no divorces.

Those assumptions no longer exist for most, so now the majority want instant everything. It's unrealistic and unsustainable.

Instant chemistry. Instant sex. Instant commitment.

To me, relationships are a mess.

So, to answer your question, it takes a long while to get to know someone, and attraction can and does grow over time.


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## coquille (May 8, 2018)

I think I just answered this question on the other thread 😐


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Curious how people feel about chemistry.
> 
> Do you believe it is immediate, like its either there or it isn't?
> 
> Or do you believe it can grow over time?


Here's my re post from the other thread

Chemistry is not quantifiable and personally, I don't think it's something that will grow. It's either there (hidden away for a short while) or not. 

I don't even know how to explain it. For me, it's a sixth sense of sorts. It's like putting on an old pair of worn in shoes. It just feels comfortable.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Curious how people feel about chemistry.
> 
> Do you believe it is immediate, like its either there or it isn't?
> 
> Or do you believe it can grow over time?


I know almost instantly. 

It's either there or it isn't. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lila said:


> Here's my re post from the other thread
> 
> Chemistry is not quantifiable and personally, I don't think it's something that will grow. It's either there (hidden away for a short while) or not.
> 
> I don't even know how to explain it. For me, it's a sixth sense of sorts. It's like putting on an old pair of worn in shoes. It just feels comfortable.





farsidejunky said:


> I know almost instantly.
> 
> It's either there or it isn't.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Exactly my thoughts too, I've never seen chemistry grow. With my ex wife I grew to 'love her but was never in love with her. Same with other partners excluding my now fiancee.

The chemistry was immediate, we just clicked and simply got carried away with the tide and now we are engaged after 3 years. It wasn't perfect and we still had our issues but the chemistry was always there.

Hence my curiouscity about why folks believe chemistry can change when for me it's always been stagnant.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

minimalME said:


> Instant gratification has certainly always been around, but up until fairly recently, it's been kept in check by societal expectations - behavior prior to marriage and no divorces.
> 
> Those assumptions no longer exist for most, so now the majority want instant everything. It's unrealistic and unsustainable.
> 
> ...


I see chemistry as different from just attraction though. It also comes before any sex. For me it was more or less instant. I knew he was the man I wanted to marry and then we carried on getting to know each other better as time passed.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

coquille said:


> I think I just answered this question on the other thread 😐





coquille said:


> I think that chemistry does happen when two people click as they feel that they have some things in common or they are on the same page, but you can know so much about a person during the first date, so a lot of chemistry is intuitive. On the other hand, if you don't feel that there is chemistry between you and the other person on a first date, it doesn't mean you should not give this person a chance for another date if you see that there are things about this person you like and you are looking for. In this sense, you can feel the chemistry later, as you meet this person again and you find that your goals and values align with this person. I think also the older you are the more patient you become with chemistry.


I dunno, for me it's not even one date it's 7 seconds lol  

Some impressions can change but for me it's been very minor and my overall 'click' remains the same however. But 'tis just me.

It is curious


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

minimalME said:


> So, to answer your question, it takes a long while to get to know someone, and attraction can and does grow over time.


Ah! But I see distinctions between chemistry and attraction. Chemistry for me goes beyond it, and beyond several aspects of compatibility as well.

Its difficult to really define and I have a theory that people may have different definitions of chemistry hence various views.

My definition is akin to a connection, or a spark. But that's it, doesn't necessarily mean no work is needed to nurture the bond. You can have strong chemistry but end up completely incompatible.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

IMO, it's both. However, in both cases, it takes time to determine compatibility, and if there isn't immediate chemistry, there must still be some other attraction to move things forward. For me, chemistry is primarily sexual attraction; compatibility of values and personality is entirely different and cannot be determined instantaneously like "chemistry."


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Exactly my thoughts too, I've never seen chemistry grow. With my ex wife I grew to 'love her but was never in love with her. Same with other partners excluding my now fiancee.
> 
> The chemistry was immediate, we just clicked and simply got carried away with the tide and now we are engaged after 3 years. It wasn't perfect and we still had our issues but the chemistry was always there.
> 
> Hence my curiouscity about why folks believe chemistry can change when for me it's always been stagnant.


i don't want to put you on the spot but you bring up the lack of love you felt for your ex wife and the differences in feelings with your current fiance. You've mentioned that your fiance is very beautiful, and if I recall correctly, you have mentioned an almost 20 year age gap. Do you think that what you intially felt for her was less about chemistry and more about infatuation?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I see chemistry as far more than attraction though. It also comes before any sex. For me it was more or less instant. I knew he was the man I wanted to marry and then we carried on getting to know each other better.


I think it's awesome that some are wired this way. It's like people who know as children what interest they want to pursue as a career. It's fascinating.

There are, of course, things that I find instantly attractive/unattractive. Voices, body types, and coloring (gingers).

But knowing a person takes time. You don't know someone by a third date. That's nonsense. And I know/understand that you don't behave impulsively. But most of the dating community now does.

And considering the divorce rate and the rise in promiscuity, making relational decisions based on chemistry isn't faring any better than tradition.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Ah! But I see distinctions between chemistry and attraction. Chemistry for me goes beyond it, and beyond several aspects of compatibility as well.
> 
> Its difficult to really define and I have a theory that people may have different definitions of chemistry hence various views.
> 
> *My definition is akin to a connection, or a spark. *But that's it, doesn't necessarily mean no work is needed to nurture the bond. You can have strong chemistry but end up completely incompatible.


I understand, and I still think this can develop over time.

It's why people who initially hate each other fall in love, or why folks at work, school or church grow in their attraction to someone simply by spending time around them. 

People have 'types', but instant doesn't necessarily mean best.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Lila said:


> i don't want to put you on the spot but you bring up the lack of love you felt for your ex wife and the differences in feelings with your current fiance. You've mentioned that your fiance is very beautiful, and if I recall correctly, you have mentioned an almost 20 year age gap. Do you think that what you intially felt for her was less about chemistry and more about infatuation?


I'm happy to use my relationships as a case study. I believe its all chemistry as our connection has not changed over the course of 3 years, the infatuation was quite short lived before it settled into something else.

Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and she was not the only beautiful woman (to me) I have dated. She is however, the first universally beautiful one which if anything causes me more distress than anything lol.

The 14 year age gap plays into our incompatibilities. I'll use the comparison between my ex wife and now fiancee here. My ex wife was the same generation as me, there was no generational gap. My fiancee is different and there are some things I'll never get about millennial lol

Ex wife was more compatible sure, but there was something missing that I never knew. We don't 'play off' each other like we should. Fiancee and I shouldn't even be together not to mention other incompatibilities: Life stages, my sociopathy, etc. But the way we play off each other when we are together solidifies us in a companionship that is inseparable compared to my ex.

It is this connection, that I translate and define as chemistry.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Lila said:


> Here's my re post from the other thread
> 
> Chemistry is not quantifiable and personally, I don't think it's something that will grow. It's either there (hidden away for a short while) or not.
> 
> I don't even know how to explain it. For me, it's a sixth sense of sorts. It's like putting on an old pair of worn in shoes. It just feels comfortable.


I wanted to clarify my position on chemistry. When I say chemistry, in talking about the intangibles. It's a non define able "thing", "connection" , whatever you want to call it. It has absolutely nothing to do with sharing common values, hobbies, goals or any other definable characteristics or traits. 

I have met plenty of men that I felt chemistry. Unfortunately, we were not compatible in other areas that would have made a relationship impossible. I have yet to meet a man who I was compatible to, dated, and the chemistry grew. Just hasn't happened for me.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

minimalME said:


> I understand, and I still think this can develop over time.
> 
> It's why people who initially hate each other fall in love, or why folks at work, school or church grow in their attraction to someone simply by spending time around them.
> 
> People have 'types', but instant doesn't necessarily mean best.


I understand as well, but guess I never experienced this 'growth' so to speak. It's quite alien to me, like I grew to be quite fond of my ex wife and I even thought it was love. I didn't know how wrong I was until years after divorce.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> I know almost instantly.
> 
> It's either there or it isn't.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


It's kind of like music. You either like it or are intrigued with it or you're not.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Chemistry takes a bit for me because i require a certain comfort level for it.

That being said a guy gets put into either the might potentially sleep with under the right circumstances bucket or no way in hell would sleep bucmet with fairly quickly. You need to be put in bucket one to have a chance.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I understand as well, but guess I never experienced this 'growth' so to speak. It's quite alien to me, like I grew to be quite fond of my ex wife and I even thought it was love. I didn't know how wrong I was until years after divorce.


It's quite possible that 'chemistry' is missing from my repertoire. 😬

I don't know that I've ever met a man and thought that highly of him right away.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

minimalME said:


> It's quite possible that 'chemistry' is missing from my repertoire. 😬
> 
> I don't know that I've ever met a man and thought that highly of him right away.


To be fair I never experienced it all my life either and I dated extensively, when it happens it's like the stars align right at that moment. Then it feels like you found and reattached a part of you that you never knew you didn't have. From lack of better words to explain it.

When it's very strong and intense like it was for me, I believe this is what people call 'soulmates' as well but I guess one can just simply define it as chemistry lol. It happens right out of the blue as well! You'll never know when it happens to you  

Doesn't mean work is done though, if the limb gets infected would still cut it off  chemistry is only one aspect of a relationship.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Chemistry hasn’t been a thing for me since my early 20’s. Back then, I could have sex with someone and nothing else was really important. 

But as I grew older, I learned that the initial attraction really was not any kind of indication of how I would feel about them or myself with them after some time. And that became much more important to me. Chemistry plays a minimal role in trying to find a partner.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

minimalME said:


> I think it's awesome that some are wired this way. It's like people who know as children what interest they want to pursue as a career. It's fascinating.


I’m doing what I thought I wanted to do when I was around 10-11 years old.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Exactly my thoughts too, I've never seen chemistry grow. With my ex wife I grew to 'love her but was never in love with her. Same with other partners excluding my now fiancee.
> 
> The chemistry was immediate, we just clicked and simply got carried away with the tide and now we are engaged after 3 years. It wasn't perfect and we still had our issues but the chemistry was always there.
> 
> Hence my curiouscity about why folks believe chemistry can change when for me it's always been stagnant.


I tend to agree for me personally. 

That said, there's a story that lends to the opposite.

When I was 12, we moved to a new home. One of our new neighbors had a daughter who was 3 years older than me. I had an immediate crush that lasted for several years. Looking back, I was completely in the friend zone. She even went as far as to tell my sister she could never see herself dating me because she thought of me as her little brother. 

Right about the time I turned 15, her and her long-term boyfriend moved several hours away.

When I was 17, she moved back in with her mom due to the breakup with her long-term boyfriend. She had been back in town maybe a day, and came over to say hello. I'll never forget the look on her face when she saw me. The friend zone thing was GONE, and we literally were going at it not 12 hours later.

So clearly there are some other aspects at play in this.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> To be fair I never experienced it all my life either and I dated extensively, when it happens it's like the stars align right at that moment. Then it feels like you found and reattached a part of you that you never knew you didn't have. From lack of better words to explain it.


LOL, you've got it bad, man. 

That's how I feel about my husband. It was like @Diana7 said. I knew he was the man I was going to marry - and I was always the type who said I'd never get married. We've been together over 25 years, married a year after we met. Still in love. Truly, madly, deeply.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Chemistry takes a bit for me because i require a certain comfort level for it.
> 
> That being said a guy gets put into either the might potentially sleep with under the right circumstances bucket or no way in hell would sleep bucmet with fairly quickly. You need to be put in bucket one to have a chance.


Thank you for your candor 😂


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> I tend to agree for me personally.
> 
> That said, there's a story that lends to the opposite.
> 
> ...


Ah! But wouldn't you say that is due to a change in physical attraction not a change to how you two connect? Besides from 12 to 17 you literally became a man


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

To be honest I have limited experience since my wife is really my first serious relationship. Previous girlfriends were more like crushes, so I couldn't tell you if it was chemistry or infatuation. Not to mention they are a distant memory at this point. 

As for my wife, there was some chemistry from the beginning. I could tell it was there, but I know she was holding back due having just ended a relationship of a couple years. She was guarded, but she must have felt something because the relationship moved forward. I think the chemistry built over time. As she got more comfortable and let that wall down. Today, most of the time it is almost like we are one being. It isn't a straight line growth, but I think our chemistry has increased continuously over the last 30+ year.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Has anyone ever worked or gone to school with someone they didn't notice at first but after spending significant time around that person, they start to find them crazy attractive? I mean sure, if she is 400lbs then it doesn't matter what else she has going on, I will never be with her, but for most people that isn't an issue. 

If it only takes you 3 dates or so to establish your attraction to someone, what do you really know about them besides surface level stuff?


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## coquille (May 8, 2018)

Enigma32 said:


> Has anyone ever worked or gone to school with someone they didn't notice at first but after spending significant time around that person, they start to find them crazy attractive? I mean sure, if she is 400lbs then it doesn't matter what else she has going on, I will never be with her, but for most people that isn't an issue.
> 
> If it only takes you 3 dates or so to establish your attraction to someone, what do you really know about them besides surface level stuff?


Meeting people in real life is so different from doing it on OLD sites. OLD has created an artificial world and established conditions whereby before knowing the person you are supposed to decide if you want to meet for a second date. I think for this reason we have fetishized elusive concepts such as chemistry. In real life you would interact with the person, take time to see how they interact with others, etc. In OLD the process is inverted, which makes dating an even messier process. 
Some posters say that they experienced it and it took them to a lasting LTR, which means it varies. I don't think it's the majority though.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> Has anyone ever worked or gone to school with someone they didn't notice at first but after spending significant time around that person, they start to find them crazy attractive? I mean sure, if she is 400lbs then it doesn't matter what else she has going on, I will never be with her, but for most people that isn't an issue.
> 
> If it only takes you 3 dates or so to establish your attraction to someone, what do you really know about them besides surface level stuff?


Yes, I met someone at work when I was 22 and the chemistry was instant! He was in a relationship, but as the OP mentioned, it was like the stars aligned. But I was cautious given he was taken, we became best friends… for 6 years it grew, it felt like we were the same person, everything just felt right. (Just to clarify, I didn’t understand back then that what we were having was an emotional affair)

And then one night it became physical… and I can’t tell you how everything was wiped in an instant - he disgusted me, though I loved him. I cannot explain it to this day 🤷🏻‍♀️ The friendship ended almost immediately and I hate even telling this story, but it’s interesting how the ‘chemistry’ just vanished in an instant.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Luckylucky said:


> Yes, I met someone at work when I was 22 and the chemistry was instant! He was in a relationship, but as the OP mentioned, it was like the stars aligned. But I was cautious given he was taken, we became best friends… for 6 years it grew, it felt like we were the same person, everything just felt right. (Just to clarify, I didn’t understand back then that what we were having was an emotional affair)
> 
> And then one night it became physical… and I can’t tell you how everything was wiped in an instant - he disgusted me, though I loved him. I cannot explain it to this day 🤷🏻‍♀️ The friendship ended almost immediately and I hate even telling this story, but it’s interesting how the ‘chemistry’ just vanished in an instant.


Wow, this is interesting! Friendship ended as well as a result? How da... lol! Could it be that after being friends for so long, there could not be a real romantic attraction? 'Tis one possibility at least.

I also found chemistry to be odd in a way like my fiancee had an ex who was like a male version of her, but she never loved him either. 🤷‍♂️

By comparison we are real opposites in alot of ways, I'm introverted, she's extroverted, I'm patient and calculative, she's fiery and impulsive. I tend to laugh at the misfortune of others (in secret  ) where she is emotional and compassionate. We aren't polar opposites sure, but still odd how we still click.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

My marriage was also semi-arranged, so there wasn’t an instant spark, perhaps given the pressure of two large families always around? In time though, I just had to smell him and I’d be pregnant 😂 The man doesn’t get much sleep, what can I say. So yes it can grow too.

I had quite a past, quite a history of chemistry with men and while the relationships (all short) seemed amazing and intense, they fizzled quickly. So chemistry was something I raved about - I let chemistry rule my life in every area.

So when I matured and met my husband, I didn’t have that quick hit straight away, he was soooo different - and it intrigued me! I couldn’t wait to get to know him. I distinctly remember something about his smell too, (I don’t remember this about any of my soul mates?)

OP I was with a man too that spoke of me in the same way you speak of your partner. He was also much older and extremely wealthy. I didn’t really like him at all at first, he was incredibly pushy. After 2 minutes on the street, he introduced himself to my friend ‘Hi I’m *****’s future husband’. 😳

The next morning he showed up at my work & by that evening he’d bought me a plane ticket to his city. I was hesitant but felt those stars aligning again… and for a while I felt a peace & intensity in me I’ve never really felt again. Again; he spoke about us the way you speak, we had that kind of relationship. We flew back and forth each weekend, all paid for by him, we talked marriage, babies etc.

BUT - the lies got bigger and bigger and my family intervened. He was in another city… and was actually in between two wives 😫😫😫 I didn’t know this until years later (he would reach out every few years, still does, still tells me I was that one). And I don’t feel a thing for him! So basically he was leaving one wife for another woman, and I was girl no 3 😕).

I won’t bore you with details, but he was a danger and I dodged a very serious bullet. So this experience probably tainted my original feelings and passion where chemistry is concerned. The man was downright scary when I look at how we met and how things played out so quickly.

It did leave me with an innate radar for that sort of thing though, a man can just look at me now in the same way and my blood turns cold. My husband is aware of one man, who when we met gave me that same look, my husband instantly saw that moment - what I would have called a ‘connection/chemistry’ in the past and we spoke about it - the man is in our circle and we are aware that something about his charm and niceness is really off and at one point his behaviour was edging towards stalkerish. My husband doesn’t need to worry though. Husband knows I’m loyal, but as I said age and hindsight have really tainted my view. Now, to me chemistry feels like a danger signal, so I listen and react accordingly like the frightened animal - run, or be eaten.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Wow, this is interesting! Friendship ended as well as a result? How da... lol! Could it be that after being friends for so long, there could not be a real romantic attraction? 'Tis one possibility at least.
> 
> I also found chemistry to be odd in a way like my fiancee had an ex who was like a male version of her, but she never loved him either. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> By comparison we are real opposites in alot of ways, I'm introverted, she's extroverted, I'm patient and calculative, she's fiery and impulsive. I tend to laugh at the misfortune of others where she is emotional and compassionate. We aren't polar opposites sure, but still odd how we still click.


Yes all attraction ended there, romantic, anything everything and I slowly ghosted him. I never touched him again. He did have a long-term partner, she was gorgeous and lovely, he went on to marry her 6 months later. But I think the disgust was more that he seemed so weak and fickle and changeable and dishonest. Instant, instant chemistry killer, it still puzzles me how this example of chemistry resulted in instant dead end. I just felt nothing but repulsion.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Luckylucky said:


> My marriage was also semi-arranged, so there wasn’t an instant spark, perhaps given the pressure of two large families always around? In time though, I just had to smell him and I’d be pregnant 😂 The man doesn’t get much sleep, what can I say. So yes it can grow too.
> 
> I had quite a past, quite a history of chemistry with men and while the relationships (all short) seemed amazing and intense, they fizzled quickly. So chemistry was something I raved about - I let chemistry rule my life in every area.
> 
> So when I matured and met my husband, I didn’t have that quick hit straight away, he was soooo different - and it intrigued me! I couldn’t wait to get to know him. I distinctly remember something about his smell too, (I don’t remember this about any of my soul mates?)


Hmmm, good point about arranged marriages. And the majority are actually more successful than love marriages!

I guess for me I can see how that can work as I still loved my ex wife (in my own way) even though I wasn't in love with her and the chemistry wasn't soulmate material. But who knows, maybe some do grow into soulmate material, thats what I remain curious about as I never heard such stories.



> OP I was with a man too that spoke of me in the same way you speak of your partner. He was also much older and extremely wealthy. I didn’t really like him at all at first, he was incredibly pushy. After 2 minutes on the street, he introduced himself to my friend ‘Hi I’m *****’s future husband’. 😳
> 
> The next morning he showed up at my work & by that evening he’d bought me a plane ticket to his city. I was hesitant but felt those stars aligning again… and for a while I felt a peace & intensity in me I’ve never really felt again. Again; he spoke about us the way you speak, we had that kind of relationship. We flew back and forth each weekend, all paid for by him, we talked marriage, babies etc.
> 
> ...


Damn! Well I can see that would indeed color one's perception haha

When I first met my fiancee a good friend on this forum who was together with her soulmate for 40 yrs warned me about this. That soulmates doesn't mean you two are compatible. 

And she was right, the day after I commented we never had a fight, we had our first one  

Thats when I knew, stars may align chemistry wise but doesn't mean there's a future.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Based on only my own personal experience.
I can´t say if same may apply to others, of course.

- When it´s not there in the begining as mutual, even if one of both feels it, it will probably never grow to become enough for two and, being that way, in the end neither enough for one. Case: My old time (too long) ended marriage.

- When it´s there and mutual but also is the almost only main foundation of the relationship, it may keep being strong but rarely grows over what once was. Case: My somehow atypical long term and exclusive next relationship as "bussiness partners with benefits". 

- When begins being strong, explosive (even a surprise for both), and other other loving forces concur over time to build a team, a couple, a partnersip of "accomplices" as one facing the world and what may come from it......THEN not also love but attraction, desire, mutual admiration, being in love, chemistry also grows in a good soil (all days, all years). Case: The woman that was the love of my life, the one I lost and still will always be there.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

The thing is, Chemistry, compatibility, highs, lows, the future, everything is fleeting. Everything. After a high, there has to be a low. And after a low, there has to be a high. This is marriage, this is love, this is life.

What, in the end, is a successful marriage with or without chemistry? Staying married? Getting divorced? It pains the mind! 😂


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

I've only ever had that instant wham chemistry once. It was like Twilight, when Jacob imprints on Renesmee, lol. It really was like that. The rest of my situations never had that instant chemistry. I just liked them after a while.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

With my wife and one other girl I went out with (she dumped me... ) I immediately liked them and when talking we never ran out of things to discuss.

Except for the one who rejected me. Although we still hung out occasionally in a non-pathetic “me being an orbiter” kind of way. More like a hey let me take you to lunch but not in a sad attempt to try again situation. Yeah...

So I never attempted to build chemistry with someone I didn’t feel like I had it with to start.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I remember when I was 21 or so, I used to hang out with an older family member all the time. He was in his 30's and newly separated. He became a mentor of sorts for me since I always looked up to him as a kid. 

So, my new mentor was fresh out of a marriage and he wanted a drinking buddy. He and I used to hit the bars and clubs all the time. Probably 4 days a week. We even traveled around and hit popular clubs in big cities. We went to all of them, strip clubs, you name it. That was just our lifestyle for a good while there. I'm getting to my point.

Anyway, this guy was a serious charmer. Like hardcore. I learned a lot of it from him, actually. We would go out, he would find some random girl, throw some charm at her and hook up that night. It probably worked for him 5 times out of 6. It was rare the days when he wouldn't get with someone by the end of the night. I remember one such night, we were sitting at the bar and he was hitting on some really pretty girl but lord was she ever annoying. Everything about her from her voice to her mannerisms....annoying. My friend was laughing at her jokes, flirting with her, and they seemed like best friends for real. She got up and went to the bathroom at one point and I asked my buddy how he could like her because she was driving me nuts. His face got all serious and he just said he hated her too but she was pretty so he was gonna be cool enough to her to get laid at least. And that's exactly what he did. 

And now, finally, the point. That "chemistry" the bar girl felt for my friend was all fake, put on. He's just a really charming guy, people like him. He is not a good guy. At all. He cheated on his wives, he hooked up with serveral different ladies a week, and despite how he talks, he has a very low opinion of women. So ladies, if your number one goal is finding a partner with chemistry above all else, just don't be surprised if you keep meeting people like my old friend. My advice would be to establish a baseline attraction with someone who is a real, decent guy, then build something meaningful from there.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> So ladies, if your number one goal is finding a partner with chemistry above all else, just don't be surprised if you keep meeting people like my old friend. My advice would be to establish a baseline attraction with someone who is a real, decent guy, then build something meaningful from there


This advice is good however TAM is probably not the right target audience. It's been pretty well established by you and others that the demographic of single women on TAM are not able to attract "real, decent guys" so it's pretty much wasted on us. Just saying.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> This advice is good however TAM is probably not the right target audience. It's been pretty well established by you and others that the *demographic of single women on TAM are not able to attract "real, decent guys"* so it's pretty much wasted on us. Just saying.


For the most part, ladies do the picking. You have a few guys interested and you decide which ones to date. I don't know which matches anyone here has knocking on their door. However, if I can help them pick the right matches, then all the better. I've had conversations with a few ladies on this site who seem like great people. That doesn't mean they can't screw up and pick the wrong person for them. Most of us have done that a time or two.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> For the most part, ladies do the picking. You have a few guys interested and you decide which ones to date. I don't know which matches anyone here has knocking on their door. However, if I can help them pick the right matches, then all the better. I've had conversations with a few ladies on this site who seem like great people. That doesn't mean they can't screw up and pick the wrong person for them. Most of us have done that a time or two.


I think you are putting way too much onus on women and really not enough on men. If the advise is to get to know someone before casting them aside then it really takes two. After all, it won't matter how much time a woman is willing to give a man to get to know him if he's looking for chemistry at first sight, no? 

And as to which matches we're working with, @hamadryad did a good job of explaining the options for the typical demographic of single women of TAM. I have to admit, based on my experience, he was 100% spot on. I could add a few more "types" but he nailed it


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> I think you are putting way too much onus on women and really not enough on men. If the advise is to get to know someone before casting them aside then it really takes two. After all, it won't matter how much time a woman is willing to give a man to get to know him if he's looking for chemistry at first sight, no?


Out in the real world outside of TAM, I have literally never heard a guy use the word chemistry in a sentence since I left college. Generally, the guys I know are just trying to get a date, whereas the ladies are picking which guy they will date out of the ones trying to hit on them. Men have their own issues but I wouldn't say that looking for instant chemistry is one of them. 



> And as to which matches we're working with, @hamadryad did a good job of explaining the options for the typical demographic of single women of TAM. I have to admit, based on my experience, he was 100% spot on. I could add a few more "types" but he nailed it


Yeah, I think he nailed it also. Not sure if he mentioned drug addicts/alcoholics but there is a ton of those guys around here too. They usually get dates though. One thing I have learned is, for both genders, the crop of eligible singles becomes smaller and smaller as we age. Most of the decent ones are taken by that point. I think that a lot of the ladies are just as broken as the guys they complain about, even if they do not see it. 

I'm not here to attack women or defend men. It's not like I stand in solidarity with those crappy dudes out there just because we both have a penis. I don't care about those guys and I'll be the first to admit that most of those single guys out there are bad. Like I said though, most of the ladies aren't any better. And if the ONLY guys those ladies seem to be able to attract are the biggest losers imaginiable, there might be a good reason for that.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> Out in the real world outside of TAM, I have literally never heard a guy use the word chemistry in a sentence since I left college. Generally, the guys I know are just trying to get a date, whereas the ladies are picking which guy they will date out of the ones trying to hit on them. Men have their own issues but I wouldn't say that looking for instant chemistry is one of them.


I think men associate chemistry with hotness or specifically sexual chemistry. I don't see too many men my age range hitting on unattractive women. They would rather go without than date a less than attractive woman, even if they themselves are not exemplary specimens of manhood. So maybe the advice to those guys should be to look beyond the surface and actually get to know the woman before casting her aside? 




> Yeah, I think he nailed it also. Not sure if he mentioned drug addicts/alcoholics but there is a ton of those guys around here too. They usually get dates though. One thing I have learned is, for both genders, the crop of eligible singles becomes smaller and smaller as we age. Most of the decent ones are taken by that point. I think that a lot of the ladies are just as broken as the guys they complain about, even if they do not see it.
> 
> I'm not here to attack women or defend men. It's not like I stand in solidarity with those crappy dudes out there just because we both have a penis. I don't care about those guys and I'll be the first to admit that most of those single guys out there are bad. Like I said though, most of the ladies aren't any better. *And if the ONLY guys those ladies seem to be able to attract are the biggest losers imaginiable, there might be a good reason for that.*


There can be many reasons but not all are because there's an issue with the woman. Again, I agree with what hamadryad posted, at least for women my age. Most "good" men, if given the option will choose younger hotter. I for one do not hold it against them. They are choosing what they perceive to be the best of the options available to them just as I don't hold it against young women for choosing the best perceived option from the men available to them.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> I think men associate chemistry with hotness or specifically sexual chemistry. I don't see too many men my age range hitting on unattractive women. They would rather go without than date a less than attractive woman, even if they themselves are not exemplary specimens of manhood. So maybe the advice to those guys should be to look beyond the surface and actually get to know the woman before casting her aside?


Trust me, a lot of those guys are hitting on less attractive women, they just aren't doing it openly. You slide into their DMs or send them a message on OLD looking to hook up but you don't introduce her to your friends. Men only show off the girls they like, not the random chubby chick that was willing to smash after the 2 for $20 at Applebee's. 



> There can be many reasons but not all are because there's an issue with the woman. Again, I agree with what hamadryad posted, at least for women my age. Most "good" men, if given the option will choose younger hotter. I for one do not hold it against them. They are choosing what they perceive to be the best of the options available to them just as I don't hold it against young women for choosing the best perceived option from the men available to them.


Think about what you are saying here. If you have a perfectly decent woman, then why can't she find a perfectly decent guy? What option is more likely, that literally all men are crappy, or maybe that she just isn't quite as great as she thinks? I think it's option B, especially considering that many ladies these days seem to have 0 concept on what men actually find attractive in a woman. Even if she is otherwise a decent woman, but she continuously chooses crappy guys over others based on her instant chemistry needs, then that is it's own fatal flaw that a lot of single guys detest. Trust me, men notice when a woman keeps ending up with douchebags but claims she wants someone decent. 

I have a female friend that was single after she got her divorce and she's legit a great girl. She struggled for a bit but she eventually ended up marrying a good guy. She's the same age as me and her new hubby looks to be about the same as well. But she didn't have some crazy specific type she needed, or a list of career/education expectations he had to meet. She just wanted a decent guy with his crap together that would treat her right and she found that guy after like 2 weeks using OLD. Other people manage it.

You are right that a lot of more decent guys might go for younger ladies. I did, so I can't deny it's a thing. That doesn't mean you can't compete with and come out ahead of younger women.

We all have a few options when it comes to overcoming obstacles in dating. If you (generally speaking, not you in particular) find that you cannot get the kinds of people you really want? What do you think you should do about it? IMO, you can either improve yourself to such an extent that your options get better, you can lower your standards, or you can just plain give up. As for me, I am incredibly stubborn and I have dedicated a good portion of my life in figuring out how to do better with women. That work has always paid off for me. I think other people, men and women both, should do the same thing.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Everyone's experience and/or definition with chemistry is so diverse!

One thing I remain curious amidst this discussion though, after @Luckylucky 's story is, whether chemistry can really grow from a point of low to a high that others associate with the immediate soulmate connection.

Regardless it does seem based on the poll, relationships where the soulmate chemistry was immediate yet lasting are more rarer, but well we already knew that lol.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> Trust me, a lot of those guys are hitting on less attractive women, they just aren't doing it openly. You slide into their DMs or send them a message on OLD looking to hook up but you don't introduce her to your friends. Men only show off the girls they like, not the random chubby chick that was willing to smash after the 2 for $20 at Applebee's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats the thing though, because of my own experience having married someone I thought I loved I always advise people to wait it out and don't compromise on standards until you find someone you truly click with (and not just for a few dates bc ppl can act like u mentioned). 

For me waiting for chemistry to grow is a waste of time due to my marriage and other past relationships. Also note my definition of chemistry goes beyond physical.

I'm not picture perfect or the best person, hell I even have sociopathic traits yet I found a connection. So I dunno 🤷‍♂️


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Everyone's experience and/or definition with chemistry is so diverse!
> 
> One thing I remain curious amidst this discussion though, after @Luckylucky 's story is, whether chemistry can really grow from a point of low to a high that others associate with the immediate soulmate connection.
> 
> Regardless it does seem based on the poll, relationships where the soulmate chemistry was immediate yet lasting are more rarer, but well we already knew that lol.


Yes, in the example of my marriage, no instant spark, but it grew


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Luckylucky said:


> Yes, in the example of my marriage, no instant spark, but it grew


Would you say it grew to the same level as you found with the other guy you mentioned? Or was it different but just as good? Or better?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> Think about what you are saying here. If you have a perfectly decent woman, then why can't she find a perfectly decent guy? What option is more likely, that literally all men are crappy, or maybe that she just isn't quite as great as she thinks? I think it's option B, especially considering that many ladies these days seem to have 0 concept on what men actually find attractive in a woman. Even if she is otherwise a decent woman, but she continuously chooses crappy guys over others based on her instant chemistry needs, then that is it's own fatal flaw that a lot of single guys detest. Trust me, men notice when a woman keeps ending up with douchebags but claims she wants someone decent.
> 
> I have a female friend that was single after she got her divorce and she's legit a great girl. She struggled for a bit but she eventually ended up marrying a good guy. She's the same age as me and her new hubby looks to be about the same as well. But she didn't have some crazy specific type she needed, or a list of career/education expectations he had to meet. She just wanted a decent guy with his crap together that would treat her right and she found that guy after like 2 weeks using OLD. Other people manage it.


What I am saying is that the pool of available "perfectly decent guys" is different for each woman and that pool shrinks with age. Meeting just one of those "perfectly decent guys" takes luck. At my age it is literally winning the jackpot at the casino. Your friend was that winner. I know a couple of those myself. I used to think it was that easy and now I know better.

I have a pretty good idea of what men actually find attractive in women and I don't have it and never will. I can say that without anger or sadness. It is what it is I understand I have to lower my standards if I hope to meet anyone. 

I don't share much on TAM these days because it's moot but with regards to endless lists of education/career, on OLD I seem to attract High School graduate, blue collar workers. Some are successful/ most are barely scraping by. I give anyone with the guts to ask me out an opportunity to see if there's mutual chemistry and/or compatibility. There never is and it's not always me doing the rejecting. All of this to say that men have expectations as well.




> You are right that a lot of more decent guys might go for younger ladies. I did, so I can't deny it's a thing. That doesn't mean you can't compete with and come out ahead of younger women.
> 
> We all have a few options when it comes to overcoming obstacles in dating. If you (generally speaking, not you in particular) find that you cannot get the kinds of people you really want? What do you think you should do about it? IMO, you can either improve yourself to such an extent that your options get better, you can lower your standards, or you can just plain give up. As for me, I am incredibly stubborn and I have dedicated a good portion of my life in figuring out how to do better with women. That work has always paid off for me. I think other people, men and women both, should do the same thing.


I consider myself someone with a good head on my shoulders and a great observer. I have had plenty of opportunities to watch the dating game from the sidelines. I can only speak for me experiences but I would need a time machine to find what I'm looking for. I have lowered my standards in different areas to little or no success. I don't think dropping them any further would be smart on my part.

The one thing I can tell you about dating at this age is that it's a dog eat dog world out there. Considering my lack of success doing it the "right" way, I have decided to live my life on my terms. Law of the jungle applies.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Would you say it grew to the same level as you found with the other guy you mentioned? Or was it different but just as good? Or better?


I haven't had the "love at first site" chemistry experience that Luckylucky described. I've felt it with some encounters, but not as intense as described. However, with my wife it has grown to that level. I felt a connection when I first met her, but it definitely wasn't a feeling of "this is the one and I must have her." Now I regularly get that soulmate euphoric feeling with her all the time. Just this morning when she was leaving for work we hugged and kissed and as she was getting in her car she looked back at me with this smile that just melted my heart. I don't know how else to describe it. I assume that is at least part of the chemistry we are talking about.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I think maybe more important than chemistry would be anti-chemistry. Provided a woman passes the initial “looks good” test:

*No sense of humor or doesn’t match mine
Not very smart*
Limited interests and/or life experience
Dislikes music or listens to terrible music
Doesn’t smile much
Recoils from physical touch
Terrible political philosophy, even worse if an activist
Orthodox religion
Travels excessively

For me no matter what else is going on, if one of more of these popped up...poof that’s it the illusion is broken and whatever chemistry there was is gone. Many/most of these are immutable and they won’t change over time.

Maybe I should change my answer. 🤔


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Lila said:


> I think men associate chemistry with hotness or specifically sexual chemistry. I don't see too many men my age range hitting on unattractive women. They would rather go without than date a less than attractive woman, even if they themselves are not exemplary specimens of manhood. So maybe the advice to those guys should be to look beyond the surface and actually get to know the woman before casting her aside?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is one important part of the equation. Granted, it will vary from person to person, but a huge part of chemistry for me is witty banter.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

@RandomDude I mentioned two, the coworker or older rich man?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> It is one important part of the equation. Granted, it will vary from person to person, but a huge part of chemistry for me is witty banter.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I agree with you and I think I bring some wit to the table. However I have noticed that what some consider witty banter is really sarcasm. I don't speak sarcasm and never have. Fun and lively, yes. Sarcasm, no. That's an automatic chemistry killer.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I haven't had the "love at first site" chemistry experience that Luckylucky described. I've felt it with some encounters, but not as intense as described. However, with my wife it has grown to that level. I felt a connection when I first met her, but it definitely wasn't a feeling of "this is the one and I must have her." Now I regularly get that soulmate euphoric feeling with her all the time. Just this morning when she was leaving for work we hugged and kissed and as she was getting in her car she looked back at me with this smile that just melted my heart. I don't know how else to describe it. I assume that is at least part of the chemistry we are talking about.


Still sounds like love! 



Luckylucky said:


> @RandomDude I mentioned two, the coworker or older rich man?


The older rich guy, though you did mention you never felt that way with anyone again. However you mentioned your connection with your husband, I'm guessing it's different, and at least just as good?

He seemed like quite an ass though, like hell. Despite chemistry if my partner was even close to that low level of integrity I would also distance myself bc she would be all bad news.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> It is one important part of the equation. Granted, it will vary from person to person, but a huge part of chemistry for me is witty banter.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk





Lila said:


> I agree with you and I think I bring some wit to the table. However I have noticed that what some consider witty banter is really sarcasm. I don't speak sarcasm and never have. Fun and lively, yes. Sarcasm, no. That's an automatic chemistry killer.


Good example of how relative good banter can be with different people


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Good example of how relative good banter can be with different people


I think I covered this on my list as “matching sense of humor”. If I showed a woman “Hot Fuzz” and she didn’t like the jokes that’d be about it.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m noticing via posts that as people age, their notion of chemistry changes? So chemistry in your 20s, or the spark, means something different for you in your 40s and 50s?

Has anyone who is married, maintained those exact same butterflies for more than a few decades? Or is this coming from people who have had several relationships?

And did you also avoid that spark with others, given it resulted in a major life decision like marriage? So when do you feel chemistry with another person and you’re married, how far do you take it? What do you do with chemistry when you’re married?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> So when do you feel chemistry with another person and you’re married, how far do you take it? What do you do with chemistry when you’re married?


Zero. Once it becomes clear start talking about your wife a lot and how great she is and that shoots holes in it pretty fast.

Then you can go home and take a cold shower.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I'm going to watch The Mirror Has Two Faces. Seems to be a movie version of this thread. 😁


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> I’m noticing via posts that as people age, their notion of chemistry changes? So chemistry in your 20s, or the spark, means something different for you in your 40s and 50s?


I think a lot of people like to pretend that it changes. No one wants to admit they are as shallow as they really are. That's why when you ask people what chemistry means to them, they will list off a bunch of things that have absolutely nothing to do with how that person looks. I'll admit it though. I am 42 and if my GF didn't look the way she does, I never would have even noticed her. If looks and charm aren't really what people out there are searching for, I have some really ugly friends that are gonna be ecstatic.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> I am 42 and if my GF didn't look the way she does, I never would have even noticed her. If looks and charm aren't really what people out there are searching for, I have some really ugly friends that are gonna be ecstatic.


That’s like the cost of entry. It doesn’t say anything about how you are with that person. She could look the same but as soon as she opens her mouth you could hate everything coming out of it.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> That’s like the cost of entry. It doesn’t say anything about how you are with that person. She could look the same but as soon as she opens her mouth you could hate everything coming out of it.


Looks.....and charm. Oftentimes having just one of them in abundance will suffice.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Luckylucky said:


> I’m noticing via posts that as people age, their notion of chemistry changes? So chemistry in your 20s, or the spark, means something different for you in your 40s and 50s?
> 
> Has anyone who is married, maintained those exact same butterflies for more than a few decades? Or is this coming from people who have had several relationships?
> 
> And did you also avoid that spark with others, given it resulted in a major life decision like marriage? So when do you feel chemistry with another person and you’re married, how far do you take it? What do you do with chemistry when you’re married?


I still feel that 'connection' after 16 years of marriage. We are now in our 60's. I wouldn't call it butterflies, but just a deep connection and knowing that we are meant to be together. 
I haven't felt that chemistry with anyone else since I have been married, I have pretty strict boundaries with the opposite sex, but if I did I would avoid that person as much as possible.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Enigma32 said:


> Looks.....and charm. Oftentimes having just one of them in abundance will suffice.


For me the looks of a man increases or decreases depending on things like his character.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Lila said:


> What I am saying is that the pool of available "perfectly decent guys" is different for each woman and that pool shrinks with age. Meeting just one of those "perfectly decent guys" takes luck. At my age it is literally winning the jackpot at the casino. Your friend was that winner. I know a couple of those myself. I used to think it was that easy and now I know better.
> 
> I have a pretty good idea of what men actually find attractive in women and I don't have it and never will. I can say that without anger or sadness. It is what it is I understand I have to lower my standards if I hope to meet anyone.
> 
> ...


I didn't think I would ever meet the sort of guy I was looking for either. Wanting an available guy with a strong faith round about my age in the UK was nigh near impossible. It only takes one man though. 
A lady I know who was about the age I was then, late 40's, was on Christian dating sites for 7 years before she met her now husband, a really nice trainee vicar 7 years younger than her. For me it took 2 years, so I guess I was lucky. 
It can take time so don't give up.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> For me the looks of a man increases or decreases depending on things like his character.


Maybe you are like that. I don't know you personally. However, I would say that you are definitely in the minority. Most of what I have seen out of people leads me to believe that the content of one's character is almost irrelevant. Just hang out with someone really good looking for a while and you'll see how shallow most people are.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Enigma32 said:


> Maybe you are like that. I don't know you personally. However, I would say that you are definitely in the minority. Most of what I have seen out of people leads me to believe that the content of one's character is almost irrelevant. Just hang out with someone really good looking for a while and you'll see how shallow most people are.


Ey? I consider myself quite shallow but even I won't touch a woman who disgusts me with her character lol


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Curious how people feel about chemistry.
> 
> Do you believe it is immediate, like its either there or it isn't?
> 
> Or do you believe it can grow over time?


I may be fashionably late to this party but here goes. I feel it can be both. Thinking on what ‘chemistry’ is, well, it’s easier to define when you know that it’s not there. However, I’ll give it a shot and to me it’s essentially when you share a ‘flow’ with another; it’s when time seems to pause, or you’re in sync through both being open and connected. Which is why I think it can develop beyond the first meeting, as it can depend on what barriers may be preventing the initial sharing of a mutually connecting ‘vibe’ for lack of better words. Chemistry is more of a feeling that flows. There are factors of commonality and compatibility that will play into this. Granted, I shared a form of chemistry with my husband during our first contact (a phone call), so it was there from the start.

And sure, it can be manipulated. That’s where the b.s. detectors hopefully come into play. Overall, it’s easier to define what it isn’t - rather than what it is.

As for being married and experiencing chemistry with another (from a hetero lens) of the same sex, all I can say is that from my world view, I can recognise there’s a good rapport without sexualising or romanticising that rapport. If anything, I categorise it as more of a sibling, or a creatively constructive vibe. Not sure how else to explain it.


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