# Wife not interested



## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.

We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.

I've tried everything. I am a good husband, treat her like a queen, attentive to her needs. I keep myself in excellent shape. She has no stresses. Does not work. We are wealthy and have the freedom to do whatever we want. Ive tried wining and dining her, doing extras special date nights, buying some fun things to spice up the evening.

I'm at wits end and am posting here to vent.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

so, has she been to a Dr? I presume (maybe incorrectly) that she is post-menopause, so perhaps her hormones should be checked into.
Has she changed with you OTHER than sex? Is she still affectionate and talkative to you? Wants to still do things with you?
I hate to ask, but have you checked her phone/email/social media also?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


First off I know lots of men have this idea, but doing a bunch of stuff for women doesn't make them attracted to you. Think about it, does your wife doing the dishes make you want to jump her bones? Again I get it when I was young I thought that too, because that is what we were taught from TV shows and the media we consumed. This idea that the lovable nice guy ends up with the beautiful women, or the bumbling idiot with his heart in the right place. Nah humans don't work like that. You need to be more Han Solo, less Mr. Belvederer.

So understand that you are not going to work your way into bed with your wife, what kind of shape are you in as far as attraction? Do you pursue your wife emotionally? romantically? That isn't hey lets have sex tonight, or even, I brought you home flowers, now lets have sex tonight. It's keeping a running dialog about your attraction to her, and you want to feel close to her and sex is a part of that, but being delicate as to not pressure her. It's being flirty but NOT expecting sex 10 mins later. You want to make her feel like she isn't required but she would be missing out if she didn't. You want to make sex exciting and fun, not a chore.

Again what kind of shape are you in? Have you let yourself go physically? It's sad I have to write this but it seems to be a thing, I read post from women where they write "my husband has put on 100 pounds and I love him but I am not attracted anymore. I don't want to hurt his feeling." There is this idea that women are not as appearance driven as men, and that may even be true but they are not so little appearance driven that you should let yourself go. If you have fix that. Lose weight, lift weights. (Every man should life weights, period. I say that every time I write these posts because I know from experience how beneficial it is. And I am not your typical jock type. Until I started doing it I would have never expected it, but do it!)

Are you still courting her? I think for lots and lots of women their sex drive is about response desire, meaning they get horny when they feel desired. Not required, or like a sex appliance but desired. They also have to deal with all the media that is directed to them but that also show them unattainable images of appearances of women and then subtlety shames them because they have not reached that goal. When frankly 99% of men are not even attracted to that appearance, for most that wouldn't be their preference, and at the least have a much wider rage of what they find attractive. So she needs to feel desired but it has to be in an environment where she feels emotionally connected and safe. Get that environment going first then pursue her.

To me it sounds like you are also too nice and she takes you for granted. I am not saying be mean but I am saying maybe you need to detach a little so she can get an idea what she would be losing. It's been my experience that women are much more attracted to strength then servanthood. That doesn't mean you don't help but I think it's better to make it a partnership. It's easy for human beings to get entitled. Project strength, like you know where you are going with or without her.

Maybe this isn't you but people who treat their spouses like children often end up with spouses who fit into that dynamic. Treat your spouse like a peer, which includes accountability and expectations, which is a healthy dynamic and you will have a much better relationship. At least you will know where you stand.

Frankly most of the time it really comes down to the non interested spouse understanding that there is a line in the sand and if they don't address this then it's over. I know that is harsh but it's just a fact. Now you don't have to start with that but you will most likely end there. Age may have a part in this but there are things she can do like get her hormones checked. You can both try try to learn about each others sexual nature and be empathetic even play with that and enjoy it.

Bottom line is keep doing what you are doing and nothing is going to change.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Have you had a sit down heart to heart about how unhappy this is makiing you feel?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Novaman said:


> I'm at wits end and am posting here to vent.


I get it. I understand. You have three basic choices:

Behind door #1 is continuing to be at your wit's end and continue venting so you don't explode,

Behind door #2: pack up and leave her, and you will be paying her way AND YOURS for the rest of your life, with none of the other benefits....

Behind door #3: refuse to be at your wit's end about it any longer.

I have chosen door #3.



sokillme said:


> doing a bunch of stuff for women doesn't make them attracted to you.
> "I don't want to hurt his feeling"


No, but those who tell us it does accomplish their purpose of selling books, seminars, and booking speaking engagements attended by women who don't really want to have sex with their husbands but are delighted to have an "authority" provide them an excuse which won't "hurt his feeling"....



sokillme said:


> They also have to deal with all the media that is directed to them but that also show them unattainable images of appearances of women and then subtlety shames them because they have not reached that goal.


They also have to deal with all the media that is directed toward SELLING THEM SOMETHING which shows them airbrushed images of men which are attainable by about 1/2% of the male population. It subtlely makes them compare us to them and find themselves lacking, no, rather, it is not really all that subtle....


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

First off, if you can persuade her to see a hormone specialist, do so. The right hormone creams/pills can work wonders for her libido. And also talk to her about how this is affecting you and how you feel about her (counselling is often suggested, but in such situations rarely makes any difference, IMO and experience). Finally, if nothing works, you can put up with it, divorce (that was my choice in my first marriage after all else failed), negotiate an open marriage, or cheat (I don't recommend this at all, but it is an option).


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


Look, she's old and she no longer has much if any sex drive. It's physical. I mean, her body doesn't want sex now. Does she go on regular gyn visits, at least once yearly? Because the only thing that might change her a little is if her doctor thinks hormone therapy is right for her. It's not right for everyone, depending on their history. Even then, hormone therapy is not a miracle worker. I mean, it helps a little, but she would never get back up to multi times a week from hormone therapy. The older she gets, the more physical problems she will likely have, and that can be many and varied, that can make you not want to have sex even if you have the stirrings. 

Think of it this way. If your body didn't want to have sex, intercourse wouldn't even be a possibility. You could do other things, but it wouldn't do much for you. Neither will it for her. If she's accommodating you sometimes, that's because she does care. She doesn't mind you masturbating, does she? If so, do it anyway in private.


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> so, has she been to a Dr? I presume (maybe incorrectly) that she is post-menopause, so perhaps her hormones should be checked into.
> Has she changed with you OTHER than sex? Is she still affectionate and talkative to you? Wants to still do things with you?
> I hate to ask, but have you checked her phone/email/social media also?


Wife is pot menopause. Wife is affectionate and talkative. We are both "retired" and do everything together. Hormones likely have a lot to do with this. We've had this discussion in the past and she is not interested in doing anything about it. There is no way she could be carrying on any kind of relationship with someone else.


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

sokillme said:


> First off I know lots of men have this idea, but doing a bunch of stuff for women doesn't make them attracted to you. Think about it, does your wife doing the dishes make you want to jump her bones? Again I get it when I was young I thought that too, because that is what we were taught from TV shows and the media we consumed. This idea that the lovable nice guy ends up with the beautiful women, or the bumbling idiot with his heart in the right place. Nah humans don't work like that. You need to be more Han Solo, less Mr. Belvederer.
> 
> So understand that you are not going to work your way into bed with your wife, what kind of shape are you in as far as attraction? Do you pursue your wife emotionally? romantically? That isn't hey lets have sex tonight, or even, I brought you home flowers, now lets have sex tonight. It's keeping a running dialog about your attraction to her, and you want to feel close to her and sex is a part of that, but being delicate as to not pressure her. It's being flirty but NOT expecting sex 10 mins later. You want to make her feel like she isn't required but she would be missing out if she didn't. You want to make sex exciting and fun, not a chore.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. She often uses the excuse that I'm not romantic enough. But I've known her for 36 years so I've learned to be very romantic. She still will sometimes use that as an excuse but I call her out on it ands then she says "well I'm just not in the mood!"

I keep myself in really good shape. I am 5-11 171 lbs. waist size 32. I work out 7 days a week doing weights, HITT, P90X, Insanity, cardio, etc. Both my wife and I have aged very well. I am 57 but people think I am in my late 30's. Over the years, I have garnered plenty of flirtatious attention from attractive females in their 20's and 30's, as recently as 3 months ago. But I am a decent man who is committed to my marriage. So I let them know immediately that I am NOT in my late 30's and that I am happily married and a grandpa!

The remark you made that is bolded is likely part of the problem. I say this because they last time we had a period of hot sex where my wife really paid attention to me and wanted me was about 7 years ago over a 2 month period when our relationship was strained. I had been asked to look after a young college coed who was staying on our area for a summer job. She turned out to be absolutely gorgeous and we really clicked. She had a difficult time that summer and kept turning to me for assistance because she had no where else to go- I became a father figure to her. Well the red flags went up with my wife and it was definitely the most difficult period of our 32 year marriage. Nothing ever happened between the young lady and myself (like I said, I am a decent man committed to remaining faithful to my marriage vows) but boy did the sex get hot between me and the wife for a brief period of time.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> I've tried everything. I am a good husband, treat her like a queen, attentive to her needs. I keep myself in excellent shape. She has no stresses. Does not work. We are wealthy and have the freedom to do whatever we want. Ive tried wining and dining her, doing extras special date nights, buying some fun things to spice up the evening.


Those actions won't awaken sexual desire in a woman whose age and hormones are working against you. Also, they seem like they are your normal behaviour. To her, there's nothing new or intriguing about you.

What you're doing isn't working. It's time to try other things.



Novaman said:


> Thanks for the response. She often uses the excuse that I'm not romantic enough. But I've known her for 36 years so I've learned to be very romantic. She still will sometimes use that as an excuse but I call her out on it ands then she says "well I'm just not in the mood!"


I believe that what men and women consider romantic is vastly different. Have you ever had a conversation with her to figure out what she means by 'romantic?' What do you each consider flirting? You may find that she considers all your supposedly romantic actions as expressions of your love for her, but they aren't expressing your sexual desire in a way she responds to sexually in return.

You should probably have a very awkward conversation with her, a collaborative conversation, to discuss how you are supposed to rev her engine (get her aroused and feeling sexual) when the fuel tank is empty (hormones).



Novaman said:


> The remark you made that is bolded is likely part of the problem. I say this because they last time we had a period of hot sex where my wife really paid attention to me and wanted me was about 7 years ago over a 2 month period when our relationship was strained. I had been asked to look after a young college coed who was staying on our area for a summer job. She turned out to be absolutely gorgeous and we really clicked. She had a difficult time that summer and kept turning to me for assistance because she had no where else to go- I became a father figure to her. Well the red flags went up with my wife and it was definitely the most difficult period of our 32 year marriage. Nothing ever happened between the young lady and myself (like I said, I am a decent man committed to remaining faithful to my marriage vows) but boy did the sex get hot between me and the wife for a brief period of time.


She had a rival, and she was claiming her territory. She saw you as a desired person, and it triggered her own desire. That's a big clue that your normal devoted husband behaviour isn't what turns her on anymore.

You have developed a dynamic where you and your wife are antagonists. She probably feels pressured for sex she doesn't enjoy anymore. You feel like she's rejecting you no matter how hard you try. It's a you vs her dynamic that isn't good for a marriage. So sit down with her, have that awkward conversation, and frame is you AND her together against the problem of the decline of the marital sex life. Then work collaboratively to solve it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

A woman in her fifties isn't "too old" to be having a passionate, regular sex life. Sounds like she has demoted you to a roommate and you are accepting it, all the while treating her like "a queen". For the rest of your life.

FYI: many menopausal women are exciting, passionate, intimate, and enjoy sex.

Geez, in your fifties?

That's young to give up having a sex life. Not healthy in many ways.

She's a roommate. I'd suggest treating her like one, stop the queen treatment, and start building up a life of your own.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

TJW said:


> I get it. I understand. You have three basic choices:
> 
> Behind door #1 is continuing to be at your wit's end and continue venting so you don't explode,
> 
> ...


Behind door #4: A mistress.

Doesn't even have to be a secret affair. "Wifey since I'm not getting it from you I'm going to get it somewhere else".

P.S. If he chooses door #2 he won't be paying her way for the rest of his life. Sure she gets a chunk of the marital assets and probably spousal support for a time period but it's not forever. He said he's wealthy so that shouldn't even be an issue.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


Unless you want to lose over half of everything you own, you’re out of luck.
Have you considered Discussing with her getting your needs met elsewhere?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

If you’re ready to leave if she doesn’t get herself together then you should let her know. You don’t seem like you would have trouble finding a companion that will have a sexual relationship with you so let her know you’d prefer it was her but if not then that’s ok too. It’s rough I know but that’s what it is.

Stay and learn to deal with your dead bedroom.

Leave and give up your long term companionship in the hopes you end up with a better sexual relationship.

Or... she figures out how to give you what you need to stay.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

This comes up a lot. It’s not gender specific.

There‘s nothing you can do.

Folks come on here all the time.

Read books, buy flowers, send cards, talk, talk, talk and it changes nothing.

You live with it or you don’t.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Even then, hormone therapy is not a miracle worker. I mean, it helps a little, but she would never get back up to multi times a week from hormone therapy.


Disagree, based on sample of one.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Disagree, based on sample of one.


I've been on hormone therapy for decades myself. As I grow older, it can't overcome the natural progression, though.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I've been on hormone therapy for decades myself. As I grow older, it can't overcome the natural progression, though.


Key point is everyone is different. I know one person ( in 70s) very well ( sleep with her every night ) who continues to have extraordinary results from HRT.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I've been on hormone therapy for decades myself. As I grow older, it can't overcome the natural progression, though.


This woman is in her fifties.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

But was she ever to the point that his wife is where her body doesn't ever want sex, or was she just slowed down?


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But was she ever to the point that his wife is where her body doesn't ever want sex, or was she just slowed down?


Never didn't want. Never slowed down either. But Menopause was pretty brutal for awhile. HRT did speed things up.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

OP's wife is only in her 50s.

They've had the talk, and she said she isn't interested in doing anything about their sexless marriage.

She's decided they are only friends/roommates, for the remaining (potentially) DECADES of their lives.

OP needs to decide if he's going to live with that, or not.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> This comes up a lot. It’s not gender specific.
> 
> There‘s nothing you can do.
> 
> ...


That about sums it up. Leave or live with it. I really don't think you can do much about it aside from one of those choices.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Novaman said:


> ......Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself.
> 
> ....We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always .... She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


Venting is good, been there done that.

You sound like a really "Nice Guy." That was absolutely not a complement. To understand what I just said you need to read Glover's book, No More Mr. Nice Guy. It is not about becoming a jerk, it is about becoming a confident masculine man. Glover like to point out that today's "man" is raised by women authority figures to please women. He is not raised to be an integrated man. He defines himself to a large degree by the affection and respect he receives from women. 

He is also into "covert contracts." These are where he says to himself (without discussing with his wife) that he will do some chores around the house and in return his wife will likely have sex with him as she will be so grateful. It doesn't work, so he doubles down and does more chores or he starts doing "things he thinks are romantic." That doesn't work so he tries harder. The issue is he has set up a contract in his mind that she has no idea what her role is. If they had discussed it, she would have probably told him it wasn't going to work and while she likes the idea of him doing more chores, he is not going to be exchanging chores for meaningful sex.

I found three great books that helped me better understand myself and my wife. The first was Chapmans 5 Languages of Love. I learned from this that my wife and I have much different love languages (P.S. sex is not a love language). Each day I was telling her I loved her in my love languages and she was telling me that she loved me in her love languages. The problem was I didn't understand what she was saying and she didn't understand what I was saying so we both got angry with each other.

The second and third books were companion books that basically said similar things but from slightly different perspectives. In fact the author of one was in the preface to the others book. The two books are M.W. Davis, the Sex Starved Marriage and Glovers, No More Mr. Nice Guy. Both will tell you to "Get a Life," which means to do things that challenge you and give you pride in mastering. Hey I thought I had accomplished lots. It wasn't until I took up hobbies I had dropped when we were first married and really got into them and had a life separate from that of my wife that gave me confidence and pride that I started to become more attractive to my wife. Another thing they will both tell you is that you can't change your partner, only they can change themself and their behavior. Similarly, you will learn that demanding sex or being needy about sex is a turn off to most women. 

My final advice after you have read the books and made changes in you and how you treat the world and your wife, that you and your wife try a really good sex therapist. The changes I made to myself, the commitment to provide my wife with unconditional love and expect nothing back (no covert contracts) made her decide to try sex therapy with me. That saved our 40 year marriage.

Good luck.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Livvie said:


> OP's wife is only in her 50s.
> 
> *They've had the talk, and she said she isn't interested in doing anything about their sexless marriage.*
> 
> ...


Sometimes hearing “the talk” from a 3rd party can help. As I’ve mentioned before, the Ted Talk “The sex starved marriage” can wake some people up.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm pretty sure your wife will give you a "hall pass"... my wife said to me to find myself another woman to have sex with and I've seen this offer frequently on this board. But of course we don't want that, do we? We are stupid enough to be wanting sex with our wives...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Trident said:


> P.S. If he chooses door #2 he won't be paying her way for the rest of his life. Sure she gets a chunk of the marital assets and probably spousal support for a time period but it's not forever. He said he's wealthy so that shouldn't even be an issue.


Wrong.

He said she didn't have to work and that they're "wealthy." They've been married for over 30 years, so he likely WOULD be responsible for lifetime support if she spent the marriage NOT working outside the home.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I'm pretty sure your wife will give you a "hall pass"... my wife said to me to find myself another woman to have sex with and I've seen this offer frequently on this board. But of course we don't want that, do we? We are stupid enough to be wanting sex with our wives...


That would be pretty cool but I have only seen it ONCE in all the guys I know. One guys wife had health issues so she set him up with one of her friends they could trust. He said it was weird at first but in the end it was just sex and it was OK. They have been doing it for around 2 years now.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> That would be pretty cool but I have only seen it ONCE in all the guys I know. One guys wife had health issues so she set him up with one of her friends they could trust. He said it was weird at first but in the end it was just sex and it was OK. They have been doing it for around 2 years now.


phone number?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

So the one time you got hot sex was when she was worried you might wonder and there was a little risk thrown into the relationship. In return you decided you should give her the secure queen treatment which shut down the sex.

The hot guy on the motorcycle that might leave town gets chicks hot and bothered.... not their slave that shows her she is the master.

The problem is she is entirely comfortable with the fact she has you under control and you aren’t going anywhere..... like a puppy on a string. You prove it to her all the time.

You aren’t a sexual mate ... your a roommate.

The college girl was a risk... your wife then gave you the sex.

It’s not an evil ploy .... it’s just biology and mate selection.

I think you missed a spot over there on the floor while sweeping. Better take care of that for her.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

So when she did stop enjoying sex with you? You said she just lays there right? When did this happen? When she did stop participating in the sex?


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> So when she did stop enjoying sex with you? You said she just lays there right? When did this happen? When she did stop participating in the sex?


I would say about 5 years ago was when I started to notice her becoming more and more disinterested. He passivity increased over time which coincided with a decrease in the frequency of having sex. This all happened during and post menopause ( in her early 50's)


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Wrong.
> 
> He said she didn't have to work and that they're "wealthy." They've been married for over 30 years, so he likely WOULD be responsible for lifetime support if she spent the marriage NOT working outside the home.


Nope. Permanent support is no longer awarded in most states regardless of the length of the marriage.

You don't have to believe me, Google it.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> So the one time you got hot sex was when she was worried you might wonder and there was a little risk thrown into the relationship. In return you decided you should give her the secure queen treatment which shut down the sex.
> 
> The hot guy on the motorcycle that might leave town gets chicks hot and bothered.... not their slave that shows her she is the master.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely incomprehensible to me...I mean, I get that it happens, but NOT for ME ever, and there have to be other women (and men) who feel the same way...!!

Risk (ie: FEAR) does NOT cause me to "attach" and desire my partner - NOT EVER. Risk makes me insecure and withdraw and detach...and that kills any sexual desire I might feel to begin with. That's MY "biology".

I want him to desire and choose ME...and if he doesn't, I'm not going to work overtime to try and make that happen - he either wants me or he doesn't...and he's free to go get what he DOES want if it's not me, and I'll be FINE. I would be hurt, but it would hurt more to have to feel insecure and "prove" myself...and I won't do it.

Besides, I care about and give my partner what he needs because I choose and desire HIM - I don't need to be afraid to lose him to want to do that!! That sounds like some emotional manipulation or game...is doing that even TRUE desire...??


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

Novaman said:


> I would say about 5 years ago was when I started to notice her becoming more and more disinterested. He passivity increased over time which coincided with a decrease in the frequency of having sex. This all happened during and post menopause ( in her early 50's)


Menopause has killed my sex drive, and I had quite a good one. I'm not quite at the end yet though.
Talking to my gyno, she said it rarely comes back naturally and needs help, which unfortunately I can't have.

Does your wife realise you are at your wits end here?
You need to meet in the middle somehow for now.
I see that your wife is affectionate, so would any tantric or karezza style sex touch work, where neither of you are having traditional sex, but you are touching, and appreciating each other, maybe moving up to insertion but not finishing. So that you both can enjoy skin connection and safe comfort, for now. It might get the ball rolling if there is no pressure to perform and it feels affectionate.
Obviously you both need to want to connect, for this to work.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

EveningThoughts said:


> Menopause has killed my sex drive, and I had quite a good one. I'm not quite at the end yet though.
> Talking to my gyno, she said it rarely comes back naturally and needs help, which unfortunately I can't have.
> 
> Does your wife realise you are at your wits end here?
> ...


Good suggestion, and worth trying, but this is something I could never do and eventually destroyed our emotional intimacy too. I just found it like some kind of torture...


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

It has been a very rocky few days. It all started several nights ago (which prompted me to start this thread) when I tried to make advances towards my wife while in bed. It can be difficult to find that window of opportunity for love making as my wife tends to doze off as early as 8:45 pm. Anyways, I tried making an advance at perhaps 10 pm when I though she might have been awake. Well, not only was my advance rebuffed, but she literally flung her arm at me and elbowed me in the face. The next morning she claimed to have no idea that she did that and apologized, saying that she would make it up to me that evening. Well that evening came and she asked to be left alone. I then figured I might try things the next morning but then she said she wasn't in the mood but that she would "let me have sex" that evening. So that evening came and she said she wasn't feeling well. So you get the picture.

My wife has been complaining of some lower back soreness, and with her libido so low I thought it might be nice to purchase some Valentines Day presents to help her. So I ordered some massage oil to help give her massages for her back, as well as some essential oils that are marketed to "put women in the mood". I know Valentines Day is nearly a month away but I wanted to plan ahead to make sure everything arrived in plenty of time

Yesterday the credit card alert for the transactions from a "Health and Wellness Store" came through and my wife saw them. She immediately asked me what they were for and I told her they were going to be her Valentine's Day gifts- I was getting an early jump.

She replied in disgust (without even knowing what it is that I ordered) "Oh Gawd!! I don't want any of that kind of stuff!!"

I responded "You don't even know what I ordered". She replied "I don't need to know because its all about you. its probably some lick-able oil or potion or something disgusting like that!!"

This made me very upset. I try to be attentive to my wife's needs. I never forget her birthday, our anniversary and always do something for Valentine's day. When I've told her I don't feel like she loves me anymore she responded "what do you mean? I cook for you every single day!"

Anyways after we hashed it out for a while and I told her I felt like a roommate and not a husband at this point, and said that our marriage appears to be heading in the direction of our friends' marriage who at this point truly are roommates (they sleep in separate rooms, haven't had sex in over a decade, and he never bothers to buy her anything for Valentines Day). My wife told me to go ahead and leave and go find someone else.

I feel very upset and broken right now. I love my wife and don't ever want to leave her. and any attempts I make for us to get counseling in the past has been met with my wife's response "You can go get counseling by yourself, because you are the problem."


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

That sucks man but she’s laying it out quite clearly for you. You need to decide if you want to continue as things are or split and hope for something better.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oh dear...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Novaman said:


> It has been a very rocky few days. It all started several nights ago (which prompted me to start this thread) when I tried to make advances towards my wife while in bed. It can be difficult to find that window of opportunity for love making as my wife tends to doze off as early as 8:45 pm. Anyways, I tried making an advance at perhaps 10 pm when I though she might have been awake. Well, not only was my advance rebuffed, but she literally flung her arm at me and elbowed me in the face. The next morning she claimed to have no idea that she did that and apologized, saying that she would make it up to me that evening. Well that evening came and she asked to be left alone. I then figured I might try things the next morning but then she said she wasn't in the mood but that she would "let me have sex" that evening. So that evening came and she said she wasn't feeling well. So you get the picture.
> 
> My wife has been complaining of some lower back soreness, and with her libido so low I thought it might be nice to purchase some Valentines Day presents to help her. So I ordered some massage oil to help give her massages for her back, as well as some essential oils that are marketed to "put women in the mood". I know Valentines Day is nearly a month away but I wanted to plan ahead to make sure everything arrived in plenty of time
> 
> ...


Your wife doesn't even like you. She told you to leave and find someone else. She says she isn't going to go to counseling with you and said you are the problem.

At this point, though, you are choosing, every day, to stay in this situation.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> This is absolutely incomprehensible to me...I mean, I get that it happens, but NOT for ME ever, and there have to be other women (and men) who feel the same way...!!
> 
> Risk (ie: FEAR) does NOT cause me to "attach" and desire my partner - NOT EVER. Risk makes me insecure and withdraw and detach...and that kills any sexual desire I might feel to begin with. That's MY "biology".
> 
> ...


Do you see that you've touched on why it happens despite saying you don't get it? Some ladies are like you where they have a good man and proactively work at keeping him happy.

Others take a more "what do I get out of it" view. Perceived competition for their man gets sex, mate guarding, or put downs - all of which serve to revert attention to herself.

Might not be true desire, but rather self-interest. But it could shake someone out of their complacency.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Novaman said:


> My wife told me to go ahead and leave and go find someone else.
> 
> I feel very upset and broken right now. I love my wife and don't ever want to leave her. and any attempts I make for us to get counseling in the past has been met with my wife's response "You can go get counseling by yourself, because you are the problem."


Your wife isn't interested in you as a sex partner. Sounds like she finds you an annoyance and little more. Speaking as a woman, all I can tell you is you can stay and suck it up or leave. Because from where I'm sitting, your sex life is a dead issue and will never be resuscitated. JMO.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DTO said:


> Do you see that you've touched on why it happens despite saying you don't get it? Some ladies are like you where they have a good man and proactively work at keeping him happy.
> 
> Others take a more "what do I get out of it" view. Perceived competition for their man gets sex, mate guarding, or put downs - all of which serve to revert attention to herself.
> 
> Might not be true desire, but rather self-interest. But it could shake someone out of their complacency.


I think you might be a genius with this point - I've actually never thought of it this way ever! So you are saying - it's NOT about attachment, it's about attention, right?? If so, that explains why it never lasts...because I don't think you can really ever shake a person with a self-interested view out of anything!

What a fascinating, valuable explanation - THANKS!!!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So, not only is your wife not interested in sex with you, it appears from her interactions and remarks, she is just not interested in you at all.
So, take time for yourself to figure out what YOU want to do.
Start doing things for yourself -- cook, clean, laundry, exercise, go out, do your own hobbies, etc..
Start doing the 180 (180 for Betrayed Spouses ) to help you start detaching from her so that you can eventually move forward.
You just don't deserve what she is doing to you. It is not the actions of a spouse. Take off your rose-colored glasses, she what she REALLY is, see if there is any benefit to you to stay with her. Start watching what SHE is getting out of you and vice versa.
She is getting what she wants and doesn't care what you want.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> I think you might be a genius with this point - I've actually never thought of it this way ever! So you are saying - it's NOT about attachment, it's about attention, right?? If so, that explains why it never lasts...because I don't think you can really ever shake a person with a self-interested view out of anything!
> 
> What a fascinating, valuable explanation - THANKS!!!


I don't think you're being sarcastic. LOL!!

Thanks!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DTO said:


> I don't think you're being sarcastic. LOL!!
> 
> Thanks!


Lol!!! Not at all! I'm actually never sarcastic (although I do love sarcastic humor) - I mean whatever I say!!


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> So, not only is your wife not interested in sex with you, it appears from her interactions and remarks, she is just not interested in you at all.
> So, take time for yourself to figure out what YOU want to do.
> Start doing things for yourself -- cook, clean, laundry, exercise, go out, do your own hobbies, etc..
> Start doing the 180 (180 for Betrayed Spouses ) to help you start detaching from her so that you can eventually move forward.
> ...


But I'm certain she IS interested in me. She is VERY attentive to my needs (except for sex). We do everything together. Lots of hand holding, lots of cuddling, although when I think about it, I initiate the cuddling 95% of the time. And she can get jealous real fast. A young attractive female flirts with me and she catches wind of it? My wife's radar goes up on high alert real fast. Her radar went up as recently as just a few weeks ago when I was texting back and forth with an attractive 30 year old female.

It pretty much comes down to matters of sex. She has never been a high drive person, and she is very very provincial when it comes to sex. Not adventurous at all. When it happens she is NOT INTERESTED IN DOING ANYTHING other than PIV and even then its almost exclusively missionary position. Unfortunately, sex just doesn't seem to really interest her.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Novaman said:


> *But I'm certain she IS interested in me. She is VERY attentive to my needs (except for sex).* We do everything together. Lots of hand holding, lots of cuddling, although when I think about it, I initiate the cuddling 95% of the time. And she can get jealous real fast. A young attractive female flirts with me and she catches wind of it? My wife's radar goes up on high alert real fast. Her radar went up as recently as just a few weeks ago when I was texting back and forth with an attractive 30 year old female.
> 
> It pretty much comes down to matters of sex. She has never been a high drive person, and she is very very provincial when it comes to sex. Not adventurous at all. When it happens she is NOT INTERESTED IN DOING ANYTHING other than PIV and even then its almost exclusively missionary position. Unfortunately, sex just doesn't seem to really interest her.


HOW can you not see that this means she's really only interested in HER needs...??


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

SO, I have a few reasons WHY I think she isn't really interested in YOU:
"She replied in disgust (without even knowing what it is that I ordered) "Oh Gawd!! I don't want any of that kind of stuff!!"
I responded "You don't even know what I ordered". She replied "I don't need to know because its all about you. its probably some lick-able oil or potion or something disgusting like that!!""

NO interest in you AT ALL -- she may be "comfortable" with cuddling as long as YOU initiate it, but she CLEARLY WANTS NOTHING to do with you for ANYTHING related to romance or bettering your relationship. She has ALREADY clamped down on Valentines Day. ME? I'd cancel the order and give her NOTHING. If she complains, just say well I order stuff but you didn't want it, so I returned it.

I think she tolerates the holding hands, cuddling, etc. to keep you without HER having to actually do anything.
It's probably become a habit since I bet you've done this forever -- she is just used to it now.
Her getting jealous is ALSO a selfish thing. It is an emotion that many people can't control -- but tell me if she is so jealous, why does she tell you to go find someone else? Because I think DEEP DOWN she knows that you are not the type of guy to do that. Most of us aren't.

" My wife told me to go ahead and leave and go find someone else." SHE CLEARLY has no interest in you at all -- she's OK with you leaving? She's OK with you finding someone else. Can't you see that she really does NOT care about your feelings AT ALL. It's all about what SHE wants out of the relationship.

"my wife's response "You can go get counseling by yourself, because you are the problem.""
Again, does this sound like someone who WANTS to grow with you? SHE'S ok so since YOU are complaining, get lost and go do something by yourself about it.

EDT: BTW, I am NOT trying to say that YOU are wrong -- you obviously know the day-to-day with your wife. I am telling you my opinions, based on what you've reported here, as an objective outsider.


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

Wow.

The fact that BOTH men and women are in agreement that my wife has lost interest in me is very sobering.

I'm not a neglectful husband and I don't take her for granted. We do everything together. I've never been on a vacation without her, I don't even do much in the way of guys nights out or things like that. I intentionally balance my activities and hobbies to make sure that I am there for my wife (and my now grown kids). I try to find activities that we can enjoy doing together, or shows to watch. I try to help out around the house as much as possible.

I try to be a gentleman to her. I get her her drinking water at night before bed. I set up her blankets just the way she likes it. I open doors for her, get her the blanket on the couch if she is cold. I take her to her favorite places whenever she wants to go.

I also keep myself in excellent shape. I watch what I eat and exercise 7 times a week, get plenty of sleep. I've aged very well (as has my wife) and I can still catch the eye of women 20-30 years younger than me. So it can't be any lack of physical attraction.

In the evenings and mornings I will go to her side of the bed to cuddle with her for a while. I hug her frequently throughout the day and sneak kisses. And I tell her that I love her, almost every day, and often multiple times in one day.

Where to I go from here? It took me a lot of courage to tell her that at this point I feel like a roommate rather than a husband and that the way our relationship is heading is exactly like our friends' relationship. She is barely speaking to me since I blew up and is doing her typical cold shoulder response- locking the door, speaking to me when only necessary, etc.

I'm at a loss


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Sorry. You can put any spin on it you want, but you have been friend-zoned.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Novaman said:


> Wow.
> 
> The fact that BOTH men and women are in agreement that my wife has lost interest in me is very sobering
> 
> ...


You do the same to her. And, you get a lawyer and get your affairs in order. Unless you are content to live this way indefinitely you will pull the plug when you're ready to move on. And she will do it when you have outlived your usefulness even if you don't.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Novaman said:


> Wow.
> 
> The fact that BOTH men and women are in agreement that my wife has lost interest in me is very sobering
> 
> ...


I'm REALLY sorry you are dealing with this. It sounds to me like your wife has been getting HER way for so long, and she's angry now that you are disrupting that. She's not fully done with you - she just doesn't care about what YOU need and want...which hurts worse, in my opinion.

I'm so curious to ask her - if she's really fine with you getting sex from someone else like she said, how will she handle her jealousy?? I think she may have only said that to be hateful and manipulative, not because she means it...which is another concerning point in her attitude.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Novaman said:


> Wow.
> 
> The fact that BOTH men and women are in agreement that my wife has lost interest in me is very sobering
> 
> ...


So, if she is comfortable with the status quo and doing childish "silent treatment" stuff, then this becomes all about YOU.
What do YOU want out of this? What do YOU want for YOUR Life (NOT adding in thoughts about HER life -- just YOU at this point).
Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Being like your friends -- like roomates that don't do dates or give gifts -- ya know, just giving up? What do YOU WANT? 
You also have to open your eyes and objectively look at your wife and what she is bringing to the table actively. Not just "oh he wants to hold my hand so I will let him" -- what does SHE do for you? Cook? Is that all?
I think you really are going to have to start detaching for your sake.
Try : 180 for Betrayed Spouses It may help you.


She clearly doesn't fulfill your emotional needs AT ALL -- cold shoulder, locked doors?
She doesn't fulfill your physical needs, aka sex.

Do you do your own hobbies? Have your own friends that YOU hang out with (not couples)? Do you exercise, eat right? I haven't really seen it in your posts, but look into see if you are co-dependant. Maybe your own counselor to help you explore all this stuff and improve your view of yourself and help you explore what boundaries you actually have and help you enforce them.

Start looking at the pros/cons of staying and of divorcing her. Only you know these.
Also, don't rush any of this -- it will take you time, just like it took time for you to get to this point, but also don't procrastinate and just find yourself 5 years later in the same or worse boat and go "wow what happened?"
Try to get a plan together with a timeline for your various milestones.

VERY sorry you are dealing with all this....


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I'm REALLY sorry you are dealing with this. It sounds to me like your wife has been getting HER way for so long, and she's angry now that you are disrupting that. She's not fully done with you - she just doesn't care about what YOU need and want...which hurts worse, in my opinion.
> 
> *I'm so curious to ask her - if she's really fine with you getting sex from someone else like she said, how will she handle her jealousy?? I think she may have only said that to be hateful and manipulative, not because she means it...which is another concerning point in her attitude.*


She is saying it to be hateful-she doesn't mean it


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Novaman said:


> She is saying it to be hateful-she doesn't mean it


OUCH...that's so manipulative too...she's just not someone who really cares about YOU very much...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> OUCH...that's so manipulative too...she's just not someone who really cares about YOU very much...


she cares about him, but she is not into sex. So, she is playing him along because she is pretty sure he won't have the guts to divorce her over sex. He'll give up at some point and they can be roommates and happy for the rest of their lives... it's just sex.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> she cares about him, but she is not into sex. So, she is playing him along because she is pretty sure he won't have the guts to divorce her over sex. He'll give up at some point and they can be roommates and happy for the rest of their lives... it's just sex.


NO, IA...you just described how NOT CARING about someone looks...and if you would really understand that, maybe it would help YOU too...


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Novaman said:


> I feel very upset and broken right now. *I love my wife and don't ever want to leave her*


Then, I don't understand what are you upset about it. You don't want to ever leave her, so, if you are not going to ever leave her or do anything, shut up and put up. You can always rant in this forum, if it helps you in any way. Me I would, and did leave my first wife, exactly for this very same issue, and we were younger, much younger. I lasted only three months of no sex, until I said sayonara.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Novaman said:


> She is saying it to be hateful-she doesn't mean it


So, do what I THINK notmyjaime suggested.
Get dressed up, tell her you are going out before dinner time -- NO other information.
Leave the house and go someplace -- go out to dinner by yourself, go to a park, anyplace, just leave your house for a while. Don't answer your phone/texts. Come home late (midnight, 1am).

See what happens. If she complains, just tell her you said to do this, so....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Novaman said:


> Wow.
> 
> The fact that BOTH men and women are in agreement that my wife has lost interest in me is very sobering.
> 
> ...


Let me see if I can clarify some of this for you.

Let’s say that you have not worked in decades and have no credentialed job skills and if on your own, you would have to wait tables or be stock boy at Walmart or something.

But you are married to a very attentive and successful spouse that provides you a very comfortable lifestyle and buys you everything you want and takes you on exotic vacations and basically pampers you in every way.

And all she asks from you in return is that you keep yourself up looking good and that you have some physical affection like cuddling and handholding and sex.

HOWEVER there is one catch - She is 300lbs, has a beard and brown rotted and missing teeth and her rolls have rolls. 

And you have reached an age and point in your life where you have lost all natural, innate libido and just have no interest in sex anymore but she is always trying to get you to lift up her belly roll and put it to her- how would you feel????

Now I know you said you are fit and well kept.... but to her eyes, you are the 300lb bearded woman. 

She has lost all interest and desire and attraction - but she has to tolerate it to keep her lifestyle and her provisions and gifts and home etc.

With a divorce, she would still get half of assets and alimony, but that would still be a drop in lifestyle and status.

So she lets you use her body to masturbate with to keep her comfortable lifestyle.

She knows you are not the kind of man to go get a younger, sexier chick so she feels perfectly safe to deny you and tell you to get it elsewhere. 

Her sex train has left the station and this is now who and what she is. 

I am sorry but there is probably no going back. She will probably never be an enthusiastic, passionate lover for you. 

It’s either live with this, or find someone else.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> So, do what I THINK notmyjaime suggested.
> Get dressed up, tell her you are going out before dinner time -- NO other information.
> Leave the house and go someplace -- go out to dinner by yourself, go to a park, anyplace, just leave your house for a while. Don't answer your phone/texts. Come home late (midnight, 1am).
> 
> See what happens. If she complains, just tell her you said to do this, so....


I see the appeal in this, but I don't think it's necessary to try to manipulate her or play games to get her to care about him.
It might just be best to take a direct, honest approach - this won't work for me, we need a real solution that considers both of us, or I need to move on.

Or he might be ok with just giving up his sexual life for the companionship and marriage with HER - some people do. I don't know how happy they can really be (I couldn't live like that ever), but for them it works.

These threads just hurt me...


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> So, do what I THINK notmyjaime suggested.
> Get dressed up, tell her you are going out before dinner time -- NO other information.
> Leave the house and go someplace -- go out to dinner by yourself, go to a park, anyplace, just leave your house for a while. Don't answer your phone/texts. Come home late (midnight, 1am).
> 
> See what happens. If she complains, just tell her you said to do this, so....


I thought about doing this. Problem is right now with Covid shutting everything down there aren’t a lot of places to go


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Novaman said:


> She is saying it to be hateful-she doesn't mean it


She deliberately says hateful things that she doesn't mean, to hurt your feelings. Intentionally. Does it matter that she doesn't mean it if she means the pain it causes you? You told her something deeply concerning to you about the marriage, and she reacted with locking doors and not speaking to you instead of trying to help you solve the problem? She's having a temper tantrum so she can get her way. She's not a partner in a loving and respectful marriage any more.

Sometimes you have to divorce someone not because you don't love them anymore, but because they behave hatefully towards you.

You'll notice that this statement had NOTHING to do with your lack of a sexual connection with her.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

If your wife doesn’t want sex with you to the point where she tries to outsource it you’re done.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Novaman said:


> She is VERY attentive to my needs (except for sex). We do everything together. Lots of hand holding, lots of cuddling


Ahhhh, I see. So she attends to your needs on her terms. Sex is one of your needs, but to hell with that, right? Basically, she feeds you enough crumbs to keep you. But if you want actual sex, you ain't gettin' any.



Novaman said:


> she can get jealous real fast. ...Her radar went up as recently as just a few weeks ago when I was texting back and forth with an attractive 30 year old female.


So why are you texting an attractive 30 year old female? Your wife probably isn't "jealous." My guess is she doesn't want an interloper on her turf. What I see going on here is your wife is perfectly comfortable in a sexless marriage. For whatever reason, you don't turn her on. She doesn't find you sexually desirable. I have NO idea why, although my guess is you are stuck in the Nice Guy Syndrome. Hey, I could be wrong. The thing is, you are trying to figure out why your wife doesn't want to have sex with you. Doesn't sound like she's ever been into sex. 

So you can sit on here and speculate, vent, try-to-figure-out, or whatever other mental gymnastics interest you. The bottom line: Put up or shut up. Sorry.


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## Irishdoormat (Jan 20, 2021)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


How do you know she has no stresses? Just because you're in "excellent shape" and you have no financial problems....  thats's not what its all about. It's not all about you you........ women go through change, try and meet her intellectually, have a deep and meaningful conversation. Our minds need attention, that's a massive turn on, meet her needs emotionally? Are you on the same level as her? It's not all physical for a woman. If you can match her emotionally then the rest comes naturally


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Novaman said:


> But I'm certain she IS interested in me. She is VERY attentive to my needs (except for sex). We do everything together. Lots of hand holding, lots of cuddling, although when I think about it, I initiate the cuddling 95% of the time.


This is not a trick question as I want you to give this some sincere thought - What other needs can you only get from her that you could not get from buddies/friends/family or a dog or that you would be able to take care of yourself? 

If she isn’t into sex with you and is not meeting your sexual needs,,,,, are there really any other needs that can’t be met by simply living an active and meaningful life with friends and family?

I’m assuming your kids are grown so you don’t need a live-in childcare provider, and I am assuming as an adult man you are capable of feeding yourself, doing your own dishes and laundry and can probably figure out how to work a broom and vacuum. 

So what else does she provide that you can’t do yourself or with other friends or family or even a faithful dog? 

Sexuality/intimacy is what separates our special someone from everyone else and makes them special. And it’s the one thing that we are only supposed to do with that special person.

If they have no interest or desire in that interaction with you, then you really need to evaluate their role in your life and their position in your world. 

A wealthy, fit, retired, 57 year old man can basically have his pick of a plethora of women ranging in age all the way down to the upper 20s (early 20s if you include sugar babies and chicks with daddy issues)

Are you sure that a person that is basically a parasite at this point is worth keeping you from one of your primary needs as a healthy man?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> I see the appeal in this, but I don't think it's necessary to try to manipulate her or play games to get her to care about him.
> It might just be best to take a direct, honest approach - this won't work for me, we need a real solution that considers both of us, or I need to move on.
> 
> Or he might be ok with just giving up his sexual life for the companionship and marriage with HER - some people do. I don't know how happy they can really be (I couldn't live like that ever), but for them it works.
> ...


Oh, I wasn't suggesting it as a game. I am suggesting it as a way for HIM to start to detach from her. Start developing his OWN interests and getting out of being around her all the time.
I DO see how it could be interpreted that way though.


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> So why are you texting an attractive 30 year old female?


I retired a few years ago but am now helping a friend part time after he approached me. The attractive 30 year old is his business manager. The texting is mostly business related but there is a fair amount of just chatting about this and that. i never lose sight of the fact that she is the same age as my son And that she is married with a child and another on the way. but yeah we are friends



Irishdoormat said:


> How do you know she has no stresses? Just because you're in "excellent shape" and you have no financial problems....  thats's not what its all about. It's not all about you you........ women go through change, try and meet her intellectually, have a deep and meaningful conversation. Our minds need attention, that's a massive turn on, meet her needs emotionally? Are you on the same level as her? It's not all physical for a woman. If you can match her emotionally then the rest comes naturally


let’s see- she doesn’t work, our kids are fully launched, she doesn’t ever have to worry about money, she can do whatever she wants....she does fill her days with activities but it is possible that maybe she is struggling with a sense of purpose. I have encouraged her to consider getting involved in something but she never bothers to make the effort


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> Oh, I wasn't suggesting it as a game. I am suggesting it as a way for HIM to start to detach from her. Start developing his OWN interests and getting out of being around her all the time.
> I DO see how it could be interpreted that way though.


And I'm not saying it's bad even if it IS a type of game - for some people, it works...I just don't think it would with this woman.

I agree he needs to detach...unfortunately...and that there is probably NO solution for him that isn't giving up something he wants.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Novaman said:


> I try to be a gentleman to her. I get her her drinking water at night before bed. I set up her blankets just the way she likes it. I open doors for her, get her the blanket on the couch if she is cold. I take her to her favorite places whenever she wants to go.


Why do you do that?

I mean I don't do any of that for my wife, except open a door very occasionally. Or I will hold a door open for her if she and I are in proximity and I am going through that door, otherwise her arms and legs aren't broken so she can open doors for herself.

Yet I share oodles of sex with my wife.

If you're looking for marital sex, perhaps you ought to stop doing that kind of stuff.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> So, do what I THINK notmyjaime suggested.
> Get dressed up, tell her you are going out before dinner time -- NO other information.
> Leave the house and go someplace -- go out to dinner by yourself, go to a park, anyplace, just leave your house for a while. Don't answer your phone/texts. Come home late (midnight, 1am).
> 
> See what happens. If she complains, just tell her you said to do this, so....





Novaman said:


> I thought about doing this. Problem is right now with Covid shutting everything down there aren’t a lot of places to go


It doesn't matter where you actually go; just that you're gone. And wherever you are, odds are there are still hotels available.

Earlier you'd said she refused counseling, saying you were the problem, not her. So just tell her you've taken her thoughts to heart and you'll be spending some time away occasionally, to think about and work on your "problem." That maybe, as she had also suggested, it's time for you to start thinking about how life goes on without her. She didn't say that, exactly; I think she said something more along the lines of finding someone else to have sex with. 

If you think there's anything here to save, you have to be willing to be bold and risk everything, now. Get a lawyer lined up. And finally, if she is able to watch "The Sex Starved Marriage" (Ted Talk) and not be affected by it, just move on.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Novaman said:


> Where to I go from here? It took me a lot of *courage to tell her* that at this point I feel like a roommate rather than a husband and that the way our relationship is heading is exactly like our friends' relationship. She is barely speaking to me *since I blew up* and is doing her typical cold shoulder response- locking the door, speaking to me when only necessary, etc.
> 
> I'm at a loss


Just curious... how did you communicate this? As having 'courage to tell her' and 'since I blew up' can be quite different.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Novaman said:


> My wife has been complaining of some lower back soreness, and with her libido so low I thought it might be nice to purchase some Valentines Day presents *to help her*. So I ordered some massage oil to help give her massages for her back, as well as some essential oils that are marketed to "put women in the mood". I know Valentines Day is nearly a month away but I wanted to plan ahead to make sure everything arrived in plenty of time...
> 
> She replied in disgust (without even knowing what it is that I ordered) "Oh Gawd!! I don't want any of that kind of stuff!!"
> 
> I responded "You don't even know what I ordered". She replied "I don't need to know *because its all about you*. its probably some lick-able oil or potion or something disgusting like that!!"


In a healthy-mutual-desire-sexy-dynamic, essential oils that are considered aphrodisiacs (such as ylang ylang), would not be an issue. However, what I notice here, is that you write that you intended the back massage to help her lower back... yet seemingly you have the 'hopes' of this leading to sex or her feeling amorous towards you... and planning ahead of time. If she has a sore back now, she needs the massage sooner rather than later. I think intention is important and being mutually known between spouses. Her response is also telling of something in the dynamic between you (even if just from her perception). 

If I had a sore back, and my man set up to give me a massage, sex would not be on my mind in that moment. What would be on my mind, is easing of the sore back. Generally though, I don't connect receiving massage with sexy-time (despite digging sexy-time). Would you know what she _could_ consider as far as sexual response if she was open to it / or what being a good lover means with her? And were your actions different when you were dating? ...just curious. 

Although, the other response she provided that you interpreted as she doesn't mean... well, I would be inclined to believe what someone is demonstrating to you. Personally, I trust what my husband is telling me, along with actions that align. Look at her actions and communication and trust what she is telling you. 

You sound very doting on her. There's a fine line between doting and being needy, which for some people does not maketh the sexy.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> NO, IA...you just described how NOT CARING about someone looks...and if you would really understand that, maybe it would help YOU too...


I guess you can see it that way too...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Ahhhh, I see. So she attends to your needs on her terms. Sex is one of your needs, but to hell with that, right?


well, the other needs don't require having a penis stuck inside you and feeling like a masturbatory vessel...


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Novaman said:


> But I'm certain she IS interested in me. She is VERY attentive to my needs (except for sex).





Novaman said:


> My wife told me to go ahead and leave and go find someone else.
> 
> I feel very upset and broken right now. I love my wife and don't ever want to leave her. and any attempts I make for us to get counseling in the past has been met with my wife's response "You can go get counseling by yourself, because you are the problem."


I read more... I know this is upsetting for you, however, these two thoughts are not in alignment to a woman that is interested and attentive to you. All I can tell you, is if my man told me to leave and go find someone else, and that I was the problem, the writing on the wall would be very clear to me. Could I stay in a relationship with someone who was dismissive and consider that to be mutually loving?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Novaman said:


> let’s see- she doesn’t work, our kids are fully launched, she doesn’t ever have to worry about money, she can do whatever she wants....she does fill her days with activities but it is possible that maybe she is struggling with a sense of purpose. I have encouraged her to consider getting involved in something but she never bothers to make the effort


Sounds to me she's lost her sense of purpose. My wife went into melt-down with the empty nest. She still works, but she is like a robot. We have a couple of kids at home at the moment because of Covid and she is a completely different person. Basically, you are not enough for her or you just don't matter much, OP. Probably a hard thing to hear, but it does happen. I don't think anything you do will work. Even if you threaten divorce, do you really want your wife to "comply" (horrible word) because of that? It's "one of those things", unfortunately.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Without action by OP this will be many more pages of circular discussions.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

@heartsbeating nailed the back massage thing. A back massage is a back massage with no strings. It’s important for the sexual pursuer to be able to touch the sexual distancer without them being worried every touch is an attempt to initiate sex. This allows the sexual distancer to actually enjoy being touched.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Novaman said:


> Anyways after we hashed it out for a while and I told her I felt like a roommate and not a husband at this point, and said that our marriage appears to be heading in the direction of our friends' marriage who at this point truly are roommates (they sleep in separate rooms, haven't had sex in over a decade, and he never bothers to buy her anything for Valentines Day). *My wife told me to go ahead and leave and go find someone else.*


When people are cheating on you, you as the betrayed spouse are told "when they speak the truth, believe what they say and show you"

In case like this, why is that same thought process not applied?



Novaman said:


> I feel very upset and broken right now. I love my wife and don't ever want to leave her. and any attempts I make for us to get counseling in the past has been met with my wife's response "You can go get counseling by yourself, because you are the problem."


Why stay?
I am confused by your response of never wanting to leave her?

Would you stay at a job that treats you poorly?
Would you stay in an environment that is hostile to you?

I understand being upset. Why feel broken?
This is something out of your control.
Why put anymore into something this broken?
Do you pick up a hammer and hit your hand with the thought of how good it will feel when you stop hitting it?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

snerg said:


> Why stay?
> I am confused by your response of never wanting to leave her?


It's because she is using the mantra "you are leaving me because of sex"... it works very well, believe me.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> well, the other needs don't require having a penis stuck inside you and feeling like a masturbatory vessel...


You are NOT funny. Not. One. Bit.

ETA: Your comment does nothing to address the OP's problem.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> It's because she is using the mantra "you are leaving me because of sex"... it works very well, believe me.


But why have this thought?
Leaving for sex and/or lack of sex is completely valid.

Leaving because of infidelity is completely acceptable.
Leaving because of issues with drug/alcohol abuse is completely acceptable.
Leaving for physical/mental abuse is completely acceptable.
Leaving because you fell out of love is completely acceptable.

Why isn't leaving for lack of sex completely acceptable? It's a deal breaker for a lot of people.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> ETA: Your comment does nothing to address the OP's problem.


Because there is no solution. Actually, there is. Divorce. Would you like to be frequently and randomly penetrated by your partner when you actually despise the act? No? There you go. Or maybe you like it. The problem is that the OP hasn't got the guts to leave his wife, who is entitled to say he is not entitled to sex, even if married to her. So, his only choice is to leave. Or suck it up.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

snerg said:


> Why isn't leaving for lack of sex completely acceptable? It's a deal breaker for a lot of people.


I'm not saying it's not acceptable, but that it's a good blackmailing tool. It makes you feel you are just a pig, only interested in sex, especially after many years of marriage.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You have no idea what I do an don't like. Leave me alone, okay? Better yet, make the "ignore" function your friend.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> You have no idea what I do an don't like. Leave me alone, okay? Better yet, make the "ignore" function your friend.


Why? I like your posts.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

OP, would you divorce your wife over lack of sex? Yes or no?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not saying it's not acceptable, but that it's a good blackmailing tool. It makes you feel you are just a pig, only interested in sex, especially after many years of marriage.


It’s only a blackmailing tool if you allow yourself to feel like a pig. 

If you feel like a healthy, virile and normal man that wants to have an intimate relationship, and your partner doesn’t want an intimate relationship, then you can’t be blackmailed or manipulated. 

If you see wanting intimacy as normal and healthy, that conversation would go something like this - 

STBX - “you are leaving me for sex!!”

You - “yes. Do you remember where I put my old golf clubs? I think i’ll list them on eBay rather than haul them around to my new place.”


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> It’s only a blackmailing tool if you allow yourself to feel like a pig.
> 
> If you feel like a healthy, virile and normal man that wants to have an intimate relationship, and your partner doesn’t want an intimate relationship, then you can’t be blackmailed or manipulated.
> 
> ...


yes, but still difficult after 30 years and many children. I can only say that I hope the OP doesn't accept it. Separate and take it from there...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> yes, but still difficult after 30 years and many children. I can only say that I hope the OP doesn't accept it. Separate and take it from there...


And it is the most difficult when you sit around and hope for your partner to change...instead of creating the change you want in your own life for yourself.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> And it is the most difficult when you sit around and hope for your partner to change...instead of creating the change you want in your own life for yourself.


Agree... I'm not waiting for my wife to change. I know it's not possible now, since I've come across some info I wasn't aware of... it's matter of timing now.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Agree... I'm not waiting for my wife to change. I know it's not possible now, since I've come across some info I wasn't aware of... it's matter of timing now.


What information?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> What information?


I found a "diary", not hidden in any way, where she describes her real mental issues, which seems to stems from her childhood and teens years. I knew some of them, but not how bad it was. She also talks about the empty nest and how it seems to be the end of her bearable life phase. She doesn't see a happy future for her, not with me, anyway. She wants to be on her own, isolated. She also talks about how useless she found therapy. That she is a fat ugly old bag. I can't fix this. I either stay and subject myself to a life of misery, or I leave and ask her sisters to look after her. I know I contributed to the issues during the second part of our marriage, but I don't think it would have made much difference. She is very fragile mentally and that's why I came back. Now I need to time the break up carefully in order to avoid another meltdown. I feel very sad about it, especially because there's nothing I can do about it.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I can't fix this. I either stay and subject myself to a life of misery, or I leave and ask her sisters to look after her. I know I contributed to the issues during the second part of our marriage, but I don't think it would have made much difference. She is very fragile mentally and that's why I came back. *Now I need to time the break up carefully in order to avoid another meltdown. I feel very sad about it, especially because there's nothing I can do about it.*


I think you were saying these exact words back in February or March, though.

You are right, YOU CANNOT FIX HER ISSUES. But people were telling you that a year ago.
The only thing holding you up is YOU. A better, happier life is just waiting for you, whenever you are willing to reach for it...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> This is absolutely incomprehensible to me...I mean, I get that it happens, but NOT for ME ever, and there have to be other women (and men) who feel the same way...!!
> 
> Risk (ie: FEAR) does NOT cause me to "attach" and desire my partner - NOT EVER. Risk makes me insecure and withdraw and detach...and that kills any sexual desire I might feel to begin with. That's MY "biology".
> 
> ...



Totally agree. When I've discussed why I left my kids father I've gotten a lot of "did you tell him you were going to leave?". But to your point he knew I was miserable....he just thought I wasn't going anywhere (he admitted it). Why should it have taken the threat of me leaving for him to give a ****? Anything he did would've been forced and likely the bare minimum to keep me there.

This is no different, and frankly if she started putting out to keep him there he'd be back complaining about duty sex (rightfully so).

In addition, women who throw put duty sex often have a diminishing opinion of their partner because they don't respect the fact that he accepts duty sex. 

It is unfortunate that she doesn't recognize the bonding aspect even if it doesn't physically do for her what it once did. This kind of thing can be at least somewhat mental.....if you're at least willing to participate for the bonding the physical pleasure might follow. I've had many tines i wasn't initially that interested but I gave it a shot and became interested.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> She is very fragile mentally and that's why I came back. Now I need to time the break up carefully in order to avoid another meltdown. I feel very sad about it, especially because there's nothing I can do about it.


If she is very fragile mentally, what makes you think it’s possible to avoid another breakdown?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> I think you were saying these exact words back in February or March, though.
> 
> You are right, YOU CANNOT FIX HER ISSUES. But people were telling you that a year ago.
> The only think holding you up is YOU. A better, happier life is just waiting for you, whenever you are willing to reach for it...


unfortunately, her meltdown happened and then Covid. In fact, in a way, Covid has been good for me because it's given me time to monitor her and I'm confident I will be able to give her the "bad news" when this is over. But I don't want to hijack the thread.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Openminded said:


> If she is very fragile mentally, what makes you think it’s possible to avoid another breakdown?


I don't know, really. I will have to involve her sisters closely. I have a good relationship with them.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> unfortunately, her meltdown happened and then Covid. In fact, in a way, Covid has been good for me because it's given me time to monitor her and I'm confident I will be able to give her the "bad news" when this is over. But I don't want to hijack the thread.


GREAT!!! And you are right...although your choices could be seen as a cautionary tale for anyone wanting to try to work things out, so maybe not a total thread jack...

I'm still always hoping you find your way out and into a life that makes YOU happy!


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## Avwshelton (Dec 28, 2020)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


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## Avwshelton (Dec 28, 2020)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


 I’m sorry you are experiencing this and that some of the responses seem so heartless and cold. I am a woman who is experiencing the same thing in a marriage of 10 years where there was infidelity on his part. I have no answers or suggestions, I just want to say I understand.


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## MegaSquanto (Jan 9, 2013)

Trident said:


> Behind door #4: A mistress.
> 
> Doesn't even have to be a secret affair. "Wifey since I'm not getting it from you I'm going to get it somewhere else".
> 
> P.S. If he chooses door #2 he won't be paying her way for the rest of his life. Sure she gets a chunk of the marital assets and probably spousal support for a time period but it's not forever. He said he's wealthy so that shouldn't even be an issue.


Being a hot guy, relegated to no sex ever? Being able to tap it again with a enthusiastic partner - that's worth a few million.


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## MegaSquanto (Jan 9, 2013)

Novaman said:


> But I'm certain she IS interested in me. She is VERY attentive to my needs (except for sex). We do everything together. Lots of hand holding, lots of cuddling, although when I think about it, I initiate the cuddling 95% of the time. And she can get jealous real fast. A young attractive female flirts with me and she catches wind of it? My wife's radar goes up on high alert real fast. Her radar went up as recently as just a few weeks ago when I was texting back and forth with an attractive 30 year old female.
> 
> It pretty much comes down to matters of sex. She has never been a high drive person, and she is very very provincial when it comes to sex. Not adventurous at all. When it happens she is NOT INTERESTED IN DOING ANYTHING other than PIV and even then its almost exclusively missionary position. Unfortunately, sex just doesn't seem to really interest her.


It might be the money.


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## MegaSquanto (Jan 9, 2013)

snerg said:


> But why have this thought?
> Leaving for sex and/or lack of sex is completely valid.
> 
> Leaving because of infidelity is completely acceptable.
> ...


Hell, it's a violation of the "to have and to hold" clause of the "contract". No one ever talks about that clause...


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

Just wanted to give an update.

first I wanted to thank everyone for their input. It was helpful to hear a lot of different perspectives from both sexes.

second- I know it can be difficult to give sound advice from such limited information.

my wife definitely loves me very very much. When she says the things she says she says them out of anger and pride- she doesn’t mean what she says. I know that because I’ve known her for 37 years

yesterday I told her again how I felt more like a roommate than a husband and she assured me that she does love me.

last night she again initially rebuffed my moves to make love, but this time, I persisted and moved things along, and you know what? She actually got into it. Someone’s comment on the NMMNG is what prompted me to go this route.

today, I told her that we need to revisit this every other day. I’m taking a cue from another poster and planting the seed so that my wife and I might meet somewhere in the middle.

so things are much better now. Many Thanks!


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

In a similar situation as the OP. In my mid 40s, married in 2008. We had a talk recently. She told me that her libido declined ever since going on hormonal birth control to the point we're at now where she has no desire for me or anyone else. Couple months ago she went off the pill and got paragard. We're hoping it helps. Not much improvemet so far.

While I knew that we were not where we once were, hearing it had gotten this bad was a tough thing to take in. I've made mistakes over the years and put on (some) weight for example and may not have been projecting the strong confident image I need to. Complacency crept in to one degree or another. I still love her, and it kills me to think this could eventually wreck the marriage.

I'd like to do something about this but I see some people making comments that this is not recoverable. Once she's done with you, that's it. I can fix myself and even get shredded again for example, but she will never want me like she used to. Reading that is also tough to take in.

May I ask what the reason is? Why is it that once a woman is no longer into you, that you cannot get that back?

Thanks in advance and good luck to the OP. Sorry to read what you are going through sir.


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## MegaSquanto (Jan 9, 2013)

Novaman said:


> Just wanted to give an update.
> 
> first I wanted to that everyone for their input. It was helpful to hear a lot of different perspectives from both sexes.
> 
> ...


Since you're researching the topic...have you encountered "The Married Man's Sex Primer" by Athol Kay or any of the books by the Gottmans? I found a lot of value there.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Novaman said:


> last night she again initially rebuffed my moves to make love, but this time, I persisted and moved things along, and you know what? She actually got into it. Someone’s comment on the NMMNG is what prompted me to go this route.


I tried that and sometimes my wife got into it and she enjoyed, only to tell me recently "do you know how many time I had sex with you when I didn't want to?". When I objected she seemed to enjoy it, she replied "that doesn't mean that I didn't feel 'forced' to do it and it's a horrible feeling"... so, a cautionary tale.


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## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

Novaman said:


> and you know what? She actually got into it. Someone’s comment on the NMMNG is what prompted me to go this route.
> 
> today, I told her that we need to revisit this every other day. I’m taking a cue from another poster and planting the seed so that my wife and I might meet somewhere in the middle.
> 
> so things are much better now. Many Thanks!


So she let you have sex, and things are much better now.
Man o man, have I been there.

If you're lucky, you might see an increase of sexual activity for about a month. But you'll know it was just false placation after it reverts back to the baseline.

If you or she don't work on the actual issue, it will ALWAYS revert back to the normal baseline. She just won't be able to sustain the amount of willpower needed to meet your needs unnaturally.

Also, this feeling of "success" or accomplishment, and "all is right with the world again" , is probably from the dopamine hit you got from sex, and the bonding experience we get. That will fade away too. And probably pretty soon.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In the initial phase of dead bedroom repair you will wonder if it is just hysterical bonding. All the changes you have made and are making have to be permanent.

It took me about two and a half months before I stopped worrying she would flip back. Time will tell but it has been a few months of consistency without me actively doing anything or worrying about it. She knows I am paying attention to the sexual relationship and what my expectations are and she meets them or doesn’t. There is no ambiguity.


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## SexlessMarriageman (Dec 30, 2020)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


I was in your shoes and posted almost the exact same thing you did, a responder suggested 2 books, which I quickly purchased on audiobook format so I could listen when driving to/from work. The advice in both of them is priceless, PLEASE read *the dead bedroom fix* 1st! Then read "*No more Mr. nice guy*" 2nd

It has changed my life and opened my eyes, we as men are taught a lot of the wrong things about how to make your wife want to have sex with you. We are told to empty her plate by doing more chores and putting her on a pedestal, and do not disagree "happy wife happy life" WRONG IT DOES NOT WORK!

TRUST ME READ THESE BOOKS, If this doesn't fix it, it is not fixable.

I have made a huge improvement in my own life in less than a month, my wife is asking me to go upstairs to our bedroom that hasn't happened since we first started dating. It's hard, but we as men need to learn to put our needs first, Nobody is responsible for meeting your needs but you, only you. And you are not responsible for meeting anyone else's needs, except those of your children.

If I could give you one piece of advice, I would say stop everything you're currently trying, read the books, and start over. Your relationship will get better, or it will not, but then you'll know what you have to do.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

SexlessMarriageman said:


> I was in your shoes and posted almost the exact same thing you did, a responder suggested 2 books, which I quickly purchased on audiobook format so I could listen when driving to/from work. The advice in both of them is priceless, PLEASE read *the dead bedroom fix* 1st! Then read "*No more Mr. nice guy*" 2nd
> 
> It has changed my life and opened my eyes...


That was me. You should read the other one I suggested in your thread as well because why not?

Glad it helped you. I had already figured out a lot of it by trial and error by the time I found the first reference. DSO’s style and wording is quite good.


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## Night Owl1 (Nov 6, 2020)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


Interesting...the task of staying married versus not is always challenging, especially if you’ve been married a long time....
Unlike others posting in this forum, I feel you’re egocentric. Working out 7 days a week & informing the readers of your physique only serves to illustrate how self absorbed you are with your appearance. Also, your remarks about your wealth only serves as materialism. I do not find these details relevant or necessary. You sound like a man who feels entitled to sex, expects sex, and is perplexed because, how can you not get sex when you are all these “wonderful” things you tell us? it sounds to me that you’re not being truthful about your intentions. It sounds like your entertaining leaving your wife ( because you’re not getting what you want) or seeking to justify a clandestine romance (with a willing partner).
Intimacy that is fulfilling is NOT about sexual intercourse. It can be achieved through affectionate acts, such as, hand holding, caressing, kissing, or holding each other in bed at night. Fore play is important. Flirting with each other is important. Connecting emotionally, caring for one another is a task, as important, or more so, than working out daily. 
I believe there are other issues here. The lack of sex is a symptom of a greater problem.
I recommend seeking counseling. You may ask your wife how she feels about that... but to assume it’s all her fault ( that you have no sex) and that you’re doing all the relationship work, I do not believe that is an accurate assessment. It definitely takes 2 to have a relationship.
I have one real question for you. When you argue, is there passion? If not, your marriage is not well.
Passion, in my opinion, demonstrates you both still care. Good luck.


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

Night Owl1 said:


> Interesting...the task of staying married versus not is always challenging, especially if you’ve been married a long time....
> Unlike others posting in this forum, I feel you’re egocentric. Working out 7 days a week & informing the readers of your physique only serves to illustrate how self absorbed you are with your appearance. Also, your remarks about your wealth only serves as materialism. I do not find these details relevant or necessary.


Go back and reread the thread. The only reason why I brought up my physique is because several posters asked! Also the info about wealth was to help people better understand my wife’s lifestyle. Geez


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Novaman said:


> Thanks for the response. She often uses the excuse that I'm not romantic enough. But I've known her for 36 years so I've learned to be very romantic. She still will sometimes use that as an excuse but I call her out on it ands then she says "well I'm just not in the mood!"


You and your wife may have different ideas about _what_ is or is not romantic. It is possible that what she _says_ is romantic is very different to what things _feel_ romantic to her. 

For example my wife says it is romantic when I buy her flowers for no reason. So if I buy her flowers for no reason she thinks it is just because I want sex and she gets upset which results in her not being in the mood (regardless if I wanted sex or not). If I buy her flowers after sex she still associates them as something she gets for having had sex and is awkwardly resentful. If I buy her flowers and then insinuate that I am not in the mood for sex, she assumes I did something horrible and that I must feel guilty or something. About the only way I can give my wife flowers and have it be something positive is to buy something that needs to be planted in the yard that has not bloomed yet. She will get out in the flower garden and get all excited about where to put them. Then once it blooms I can compliment how nice it makes our home look and tell her that she picked a good spot to plant them. 

There is a moral to that story and probably a proverb as well, but I am still confused and don't know what it is!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

Well, I’m back 9 months later to vent yet again. Things did get better for a while- I would push the issue and my wife would compromise and allow me to have sex maybe once every 1-2 weeks. But the sex is almost always one sided. She is just not interested. the frequency has continued to decline and it is now getting closer to once a month which is not acceptable for me. As a result, I’ve begun masturbating again just to get a release.

the latest riff about this has put me in a funk. I have been depressed now for almost a week- it Comes after a long spell where she constantly rebuffed my advances. She has now tried to offer “make up“ sex which I am turning down as I am just tired of this sexual relationship being one sided. We just had an argument about it and she said that I can’t expect to get my happiness from her. I then said that perhaps I need to find my happiness from somewhere else and she got really upset and stormed off.

this is sad.


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## Novaman (Oct 7, 2019)

JerryB said:


> So she let you have sex, and things are much better now.
> Man o man, have I been there.
> 
> If you're lucky, you might see an increase of sexual activity for about a month. But you'll know it was just false placation after it reverts back to the baseline.
> ...


You were so right


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Novaman said:


> this is sad.


It is sad, however if she’s not interested in you enough to put effort into the sexual relationship then what’s the point? That’s where I got to.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Novaman said:


> We just had an argument about it and she said that I can’t expect to get my happiness from her. I then said that perhaps I need to find my happiness from somewhere else and she got really upset and stormed off.
> 
> this is sad.


Your wife is right, though, and she is offering you what she can. You don't want that, which is fair enough. I understand she is upset, but you two are mismatched and there is no solution. One of you is destined to be unhappy, whatever you decide.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Novaman said:


> Well, I’m back 9 months later to vent yet again. Things did get better for a while- I would push the issue and my wife would compromise and allow me to have sex maybe once every 1-2 weeks. But the sex is almost always one sided. She is just not interested. the frequency has continued to decline and it is now getting closer to once a month which is not acceptable for me. As a result, I’ve begun masturbating again just to get a release.
> 
> the latest riff about this has put me in a funk. I have been depressed now for almost a week- it Comes after a long spell where she constantly rebuffed my advances. She has now tried to offer “make up“ sex which I am turning down as I am just tired of this sexual relationship being one sided. We just had an argument about it and she said that I can’t expect to get my happiness from her. I then said that perhaps I need to find my happiness from somewhere else and she got really upset and stormed off.
> 
> this is sad.


You need to study up on and implement the 180.
You need to distance yourself from her and develop other interests.
Distance yourself from her. If she loves you like she said, she will come after you.
I speak from experience. My wife did the same thing.
I put up with it for seven years.
After I learned the reason why nice guys finish last and got pissed, things changed.
I took charge. I gave her three options. She found fixing her s**t to be the most palatable.
Years later, we have a good sex life.
My story is on here. Look it up.
If this doesn't work, you only have two other options: put up with it or file.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Novaman said:


> Well, I’m back 9 months later to vent yet again. Things did get better for a while- I would push the issue and my wife would compromise and allow me to have sex maybe once every 1-2 weeks. But the sex is almost always one sided. She is just not interested. the frequency has continued to decline and it is now getting closer to once a month which is not acceptable for me. As a result, I’ve begun masturbating again just to get a release.
> 
> the latest riff about this has put me in a funk. I have been depressed now for almost a week- it Comes after a long spell where she constantly rebuffed my advances. She has now tried to offer “make up“ sex which I am turning down as I am just tired of this sexual relationship being one sided. We just had an argument about it and she said that I can’t expect to get my happiness from her. I then said that perhaps I need to find my happiness from somewhere else and she got really upset and stormed off.
> 
> this is sad.


Now you know that she is unable / unwilling to meet your need. It's most likely the latter since it's such as minimal investment of time and effort to have good sex with your spouse twice a month.

You also know she most likely doesn't consider your wants and needs equally import as her own - it's a respect issue. Her storming off after you saying less sex doesn't work for you is a telling sign. Would she be okay with you coming up short on her wants and needs? What does she expect you to do?

You won't get your needs met unless she decides to make a sustained effort to up her sex game, you decide to accept little aex, or you end the marriage.

To me, especially getting close to 50, sexual frequency is negotiable (although not to 1x per month). But respect never is.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DTO said:


> Her storming off after you saying less sex doesn't work for you is a telling sign. Would she be okay with you coming up short on her wants and needs? What does she expect you to do?


She stormed off because she doesn't understand why her husband is putting so much emphasis on sex. She doesn't get it. She is giving him what she can give him. Affection, companionship and friendship are more important to her than sex. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for her husband. As I said before, it's a total mismatch, in terms of needs and expectations.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Is twice a month really acceptable for some gents? Sorry for poss TJ, if any conversations will create a diff thread.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Is twice a month really acceptable for some gents? Sorry for poss TJ, if any conversations will create a diff thread.


We were twice a month. It wasn't enough, not even close, but no alternative offered. How can you sustain a relationship with 1 hour of intimacy per month? Ridiculous. This is if you consider sex an important aspect of your marriage, obviously. I don't think the OP's wife could care less about it...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> She stormed off because she doesn't understand why her husband is putting so much emphasis on sex. She doesn't get it. She is giving him what she can give him. Affection, companionship and friendship are more important to her than sex. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for her husband. As I said before, it's a total mismatch, in terms of needs and expectations.


She stormed off because she is angry that she can't continue to do whatever SHE wants, and that he isn't getting with the program of making her needs his biggest priority.

I agree, it's a total mismatch...so then if meeting his needs is so unpalatable to her, she should release him from her expectation of monogamy.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It's not that she just isn't interested in sex. It's her whole general attitude about it and treatment of OP about the issue. A woman with low libido can still want to keep a sexual and sensual connection to her husband, knowing it's important to him, there's oral, there's touching, etc. etc. etc. 

The deal breaker for me would be her attitude about it. She totally thinks she's the queen and she can treat you however she wants. She has an inherent lack of respect for you as a virile man. Most worrisome is her complete denial of YOUR SEXUALITY.

As someone said a long time ago in the thread, she has friend zoned you and doesn’t give a ****. She thinks that act will not have any effect on the goods and services you provide her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> She stormed off because she is angry that she can't continue to do whatever SHE wants, and that he isn't getting with the program of making her needs his biggest priority.
> 
> I agree, it's a total mismatch...so then if meeting his needs is so unpalatable to her, she should release him from her expectation of monogamy.


I don't quite agree with the first part, but I guess it's matter of opinion. There are wives who don't really care about sex, especially after many years and they don't understand it. This was my wife's case and I believe it's the OP wife's case... Of course, you can flip the coin and say that *they do get it,* but they are too selfish and only care about their needs. This is possible too. From what I read in this thread, I think it's the first instance. I totally agree with the second part: if sex is a priority for the husband, and the wife is not interested, she should have the honesty to ask for a divorce. Again, some wives might not consider sex a valid reason to divorce their husband, so they don't do it, or are selfish...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> She stormed off because she doesn't understand why her husband is putting so much emphasis on sex. She doesn't get it. She is giving him what she can give him. Affection, companionship and friendship are more important to her than sex. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for her husband. As I said before, it's a total mismatch, in terms of needs and expectations.


She doesn't have to understand why he likes it so much in order to provide for him. All she has to do is learn to appreciate him.

Like I said, the true test of where her heart is at is whether she would accept getting so little of what she needs from him. My experience and what I've read on TAM (and elsewhere) indicates the refusing spouses also think the lack of sex should be accepted cheerfully.

The OP's wife getting pissed off and walking away is a strong sign that she expects him to just suck it up. Otherwise, she would engage in a respectful conversation like "I know I am not meeting your needs; unfortunately, sex is not something I'm willing to work at so we need to figure out what to do".

She scoffed and walked off; that's why it is a respect issue too.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> She stormed off because she is angry that she can't continue to do whatever SHE wants, and that he isn't getting with the program of making her needs his biggest priority.
> 
> I agree, it's a total mismatch...so then if meeting his needs is so unpalatable to her, she should release him from her expectation of monogamy.


This exactly. Her dislike of sex doesn't entitle her to not take his needs seriously.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now.


One of you has been happily married for 32 years; but, I don't think it is you.

Your wife is ticked because you aren't getting with the program of a sexless marriage. If corpse sex every 2-3 months is sufficient to keep you hanging on, go for it.

If nothing changes, nothing changes. Since you can only control yourself - start there. Stop talking to her about sex. Become asexual as far as she is concerned. Start writing a pro and con list of why you want to stay married to her.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> *She stormed off because she is angry that she can't continue to do whatever SHE wants*, and that he isn't getting with the program of making her needs his biggest priority.
> 
> I agree, it's a total mismatch...so then if meeting his needs is so unpalatable to her, she should release him from her expectation of monogamy.


To the bolded: maybe. It crosses over into judging her intentions, which none of us know. 

Where the bolded doesn't align with her actions is in her attempt to improve things, even if temporary. 

What is more likely is that she is every bit as frustrated as he is over the situation, and knows his withdrawal from her means further escalation of the situation. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> To the bolded: maybe. It crosses over into judging her intentions, which none of us know.
> 
> Where the bolded doesn't align with her actions is in her attempt to improve things, even if temporary.
> 
> ...


I know this because I have seven years of firsthand experience with this mindset.
The bolded is correct. She stormed off because she didn't get her way. Muffin is doing what she THINKS SHE CAN. OP is passive, so Muffin is spoiled and thinks the circus is ALL ABOUT HER.
The key was when the young, nubile, coed came into the picture. Muffin noticed that she had serious competition. Muffin lit up the OP's life. After the YNC was out of the picture, Muffin could turn her burner down because she no longer had what she perceived as serious competition and the status quo returned.
This is why the 180 is an important tool. If she sees the OP distancing himself, she is going to up the game. She only feels compelled to do the bare minimum; therefore it is incumbent upon the OP to change the dynamics of the relationship to challenge Muffin's expectations regarding the relationship, and force her to bring out the "A" game.
OP needs to learn, live and love Glover's book and fully implement it in his life and relationship. Muffin needs some direction and to be held accountable.. She will step up, Muffin likes her nest too much. OP needs to go through the gyrations of eliminating her entitlement, and work in concert with her to achieve a happy workable medium for both of them.
OP needs to take charge and set the lay of the land. Muffin can only treat him like dirt with his permission.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Tdbo said:


> I know this because I have seven years of firsthand experience with this mindset.
> The bolded is correct. She stormed off because she didn't get her way. Muffin is doing what she THINKS SHE CAN. OP is passive, so Muffin is spoiled and thinks the circus is ALL ABOUT HER.
> The key was when the young, nubile, coed came into the picture. Muffin noticed that she had serious competition. Muffin lit up the OP's life. After the YNC was out of the picture, Muffin could turn her burner down because she no longer had what she perceived as serious competition and the status quo returned.
> This is why the 180 is an important tool. If she sees the OP distancing himself, she is going to up the game. She only feels compelled to do the bare minimum; therefore it is incumbent upon the OP to change the dynamics of the relationship to challenge Muffin's expectations regarding the relationship, and force her to bring out the "A" game.
> ...


This post is so full of cliches and stereotypes, I have no idea how to address it...except to maybe say for this to be true you have to know the OP's wife's mind.

It MAY be true, but none of our experiences match completely, and failing to truly understand the situation is a recipe for certain failure. 



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Is twice a month really acceptable for some gents? Sorry for poss TJ, if any conversations will create a diff thread.


No. Once in two weeks so close to zero the difference is not detectable. In fact, never ever is preferable. That way there is no temptation to look forward to return engagement.

If she not interested in more than twice a month, would just tell her to forget the whole thing and take care of my needs another way. And would tell her my intentions.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> This post is so full of cliches and stereotypes, I have no idea how to address it...except to maybe say for this to be true you have to know the OP's wife's mind.
> 
> It MAY be true, but none of our experiences match completely, and failing to truly understand the situation is a recipe for certain failure.
> 
> ...


I'd bet it is at a minimum pretty close.
It can be tested easily. All he needs to do is pull away some and see if she responds.
OP is complacent. She knows it and takes full advantage of it to her benefit.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Tdbo said:


> I'd bet it is at a minimum pretty close.
> It can be tested easily. All he needs to do is pull away some and see if she responds.
> OP is complacent. She knows it and takes full advantage of it to her benefit.


If there is anything I am known for on this forum, it is advocating for aggressively pulling away from a spouse who over-expects their needs to be met in the face of under-delivering to their spouse, especially when it comes to sex.

That said, these situations are rarely A+B=C.

Just earlier this week, I was advocating pulling away to a poster, when another savvy poster asked if the OP's wife orgasms during sex. It was something I had not even remotely considered. 

I say this to point out it is crucial to make sure you (the proverbial you versus specifically you) have a very clear understanding of the what's and the why's before pulling the pin on the grenade. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> I say this to point out it is crucial to make sure you (the proverbial you versus specifically you) have a very clear understanding of the what's and the why's before pulling the pin on the grenade.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


There is only one person in the circle that has that kind of vision, and that is the OP.
Therefore, he needs to take the advice he can use and leave the rest.
NONE of us know the other side of the equation, since we are only getting a one side accounting.
However, there is nothing wrong with one having high expectations for their own life experience.
It is ultimately up to the OP to steer his own boat and make those expectations a reality.
He needs to decide if he can do it with or without her.
From what I have read, I firmly believe neither of them want to go anyplace.
However, he does need to flex on her, in an effort to get to a mutually agreeable place.
He doesn't necessarily need to discharge the munition at this point.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Novaman said:


> Well, I’m back 9 months later to vent yet again. Things did get better for a while- I would push the issue and my wife would compromise and allow me to have sex maybe once every 1-2 weeks. But the sex is almost always one sided. She is just not interested. the frequency has continued to decline and it is now getting closer to once a month which is not acceptable for me. As a result, I’ve begun masturbating again just to get a release.
> 
> the latest riff about this has put me in a funk. I have been depressed now for almost a week- it Comes after a long spell where she constantly rebuffed my advances. She has now tried to offer “make up“ sex which I am turning down as I am just tired of this sexual relationship being one sided. We just had an argument about it and she said that I can’t expect to get my happiness from her. I then said that perhaps I need to find my happiness from somewhere else and she got really upset and stormed off.
> 
> this is sad.


So, it looks like you have all the data you need. You know that things won't change. You can either (a) live with it, or (b) move on. It's your choice. However, it doesn't seem like further investigation, rummination, or gesticulation is needed. Move... one way or the other.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Novaman said:


> Thanks for the response. She often uses the excuse that I'm not romantic enough. But I've known her for 36 years so I've learned to be very romantic. She still will sometimes use that as an excuse but I call her out on it ands then she says "well I'm just not in the mood!"
> 
> I keep myself in really good shape. I am 5-11 171 lbs. waist size 32. I work out 7 days a week doing weights, HITT, P90X, Insanity, cardio, etc. Both my wife and I have aged very well. I am 57 but people think I am in my late 30's. Over the years, I have garnered plenty of flirtatious attention from attractive females in their 20's and 30's, as recently as 3 months ago. But I am a decent man who is committed to my marriage. So I let them know immediately that I am NOT in my late 30's and that I am happily married and a grandpa!
> 
> The remark you made that is bolded is likely part of the problem. I say this because they last time we had a period of hot sex where my wife really paid attention to me and wanted me was about 7 years ago over a 2 month period when our relationship was strained. I had been asked to look after a young college coed who was staying on our area for a summer job. She turned out to be absolutely gorgeous and we really clicked. She had a difficult time that summer and kept turning to me for assistance because she had no where else to go- I became a father figure to her. Well the red flags went up with my wife and it was definitely the most difficult period of our 32 year marriage. Nothing ever happened between the young lady and myself (like I said, I am a decent man committed to remaining faithful to my marriage vows) but boy did the sex get hot between me and the wife for a brief period of time.


If she cared enough she would do something about it. Fact she does not want to try to fix it....well you have your answer. My wife is 54 and she jumps my bones every chance she can, usually daily....but she cared enough to go get HRT. Your wife is more the tough crap....i dont feel like it so your out of luck buster. 

Wonder how she would feel if you copped the same attitude. I was busy Friday night and didn't feel like coming home....tough crap.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> She stormed off because she is angry that she can't continue to do whatever SHE wants, and that he isn't getting with the program of making her needs his biggest priority.
> 
> I agree, it's a total mismatch...so then if meeting his needs is so unpalatable to her, she should release him from her expectation of monogamy.


it is difficult to read some of these. they are true, in that the OP desperately needs more sex, and no matter what he does, she does not improve.

but this is pretty clearly a medical problem. she no longer has any sex hormones, or libido. so she literally does not understand what the whole problem is.

Ya know, when the priest/rabbi says "in sickness and in health, till death do us part", i think he is talking about this. she has a medical illness. you really can not divorce her for that! you took a vow.

OP is stuck


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> She stormed off because she doesn't understand why her husband is putting so much emphasis on sex. She doesn't get it. *She is giving him what she can give him. Affection, companionship and friendship are more important to her than sex.* Unfortunately, that doesn't work for her husband. As I said before, it's a total mismatch, in terms of needs and expectations.


In that case, she has listening problem. She's not hearing what is important to him and he's been telling her for all these years. Say, if I prefer to drink champagne and if I get served miller light(or any other swill) when the server things that it's a perfectly acceptable substitute then there's a problem.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

Maybe it's time for you to read up on 180 and start implementing it. 

I think you have been wishy-washy on your boundaries and your wife has been browbeating you so far. She may be acting up now, because you might have started to stand up for yourself and now you are seeing her behavior when she does not get her way.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> No. Once in two weeks so close to zero the difference is not detectable. In fact, never ever is preferable. That way there is no temptation to look forward to return engagement.
> 
> *If she not interested in more than twice a month, would just tell her to forget the whole thing and take care of my needs another way. And would tell her my intentions.*


This is what I did...and anyone who chooses this path needs to be ready for the fallout, because THAT is what will tell you what you are REALLY dealing with.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> This is what I did...and anyone who chooses this path needs to be ready for the fallout, because THAT is what will tell you what you are REALLY dealing with.


Most likely there will be some fallout, because how dare @Novaman grow a backbone now (end-of-sarcasm)

@Novaman earlier in this thread, people alluded to the idea of respect or lack thereof. It may not be the case of outright disrespect. I think this is more of the attitude along the lines of "I'll do whatever the duck I want and @Novaman better deal with it because that's what he's been doing all along and I've trained him well. Whenever he throws a tantrum, I'll throw some scraps his way to shut him up and then I can continue living my cushy lifestyle." (I'm just wildly guessing here, I don't profess to understand the minds and thought process of people)

So, I think here's how it would go. There will be a whole lot of huffing and then whole lot of puffing, then there will be a bunch of tantrums and when she sees that you are not budging (hopefully) then she might give an inch or two to placate you. The next thing we know, you are back here writing very happily that things have improved significantly and that you both are doing great. And about another six to eight months after that you'll likely be back again. (Just my pure unadulterated wild guess)


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> To the bolded: maybe. It crosses over into judging her intentions, which none of us know.
> 
> Where the bolded doesn't align with her actions is in her attempt to improve things, even if temporary.
> 
> ...


Don't you think that the main reason she would be frustrated by any further escalation of their situation, is because she is tired of meeting his needs and wants to have things her way now...? I can't imagine another reason for someone to be frustrated like that when their partner says, if you are unwilling to meet my needs, I will have them met elsewhere...

Won't that solve her problem and end any frustration?? Unless she is trying to ERASE his needs because they are inconvenient for her, I am not sure why else she would be frustrated.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Asterix said:


> Most likely there will be some fallout, because how dare @Novaman grow a backbone now (end-of-sarcasm)
> 
> @Novaman earlier in this thread, people alluded to the idea of respect or lack thereof. It may not be the case of outright disrespect. I think this is more of the attitude along the lines of "I'll do whatever the duck I want and @Novaman better deal with it because that's what he's been doing all along and I've trained him well. Whenever he throws a tantrum, I'll throw some scraps his way to shut him up and then I can continue living my cushy lifestyle." (I'm just wildly guessing here, I don't profess to understand the minds and thought process of people)
> 
> So, I think here's how it would go. There will be a whole lot of huffing and then whole lot of puffing, then there will be a bunch of tantrums and when she sees that you are not budging (hopefully) then she might give an inch or two to placate you. The next thing we know, you are back here writing very happily that things have improved significantly and that you both are doing great. And about another six to eight months after that you'll likely be back again. (Just my pure unadulterated wild guess)


Or she might be willing to burn everything down to maintain her position on the pedestal that she loves being on so much.

That is what my STBX decided to do, when I backed off from him ("the 180", before I had ever heard of it)...and when I saw the swamp of selfishness in his heart that had been hidden from me (but I had always felt), there was NO unseeing it.

Growing a backbone doesn't always remind your partner to see you and care about your needs...and people need to be ready for THAT consequence as well.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> it is difficult to read some of these. they are true, in that the OP desperately needs more sex, and no matter what he does, she does not improve.
> 
> but this is pretty clearly a medical problem. she no longer has any sex hormones, or libido. so she literally does not understand what the whole problem is.
> *
> ...


Absolutely NOT. She also has vows and responsibilities to her husband and marriage as well. Forced celibacy is unequivocally WRONG. 

And IF menopause is an "illness" she has, then she needs to get to her doctor for the "cure", or at least an attempt at it.
My guess is she is content with being "sick" this way, since the only problem is for her monogamous partner...so she isn't interested in making it HER problem.

Porn and/or masturbation addiction could also be called an "illness" that affects sexual performance...should partners stay stuck for that as well?

Absolutely NOT.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Asterix said:


> In that case, she has listening problem. She's not hearing what is important to him and he's been telling her for all these years.


In fact, I said she should be honest with him and divorce him. Clearly she can't give him what he wants and he needs it badly, so the only solution is to split up.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Don't you think that the main reason she would be frustrated by any further escalation of their situation, is because she is tired of meeting his needs and wants to have things her way now...? I can't imagine another reason for someone to be frustrated like that when their partner says, if you are unwilling to meet my needs, I will have them met elsewhere...
> 
> Won't that solve her problem and end any frustration?? Unless she is trying to ERASE his needs because they are inconvenient for her, I am not sure why else she would be frustrated.


As I said before, there are many women that think sex is not that important in a marriage, especially after 20-30 years. They think you are not entitled to sex and that you should compromise heavily - once a month, for example (if you are lucky). The OP's wife doesn't understand why he wants sex all the time and she is not prepared to meet his needs to that extent, because sex should not be a priority after all these years. And she is upset because she doesn't understand why sex is more important than your wife and that you are prepared to divorce your wife over this. My wife is a classic example: she didn't understand, but we compromised and sex was scheduled at twice a month. Why did I stay? The sex was good...  I don't understand how a man can be in relationship with corpse sex (® @Blondilocks) once a month. At least the sex has to be good!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I don't understand how a man can be in relationship with corpse sex (® @Blondilocks) once a month.


The OP's words:



Novaman said:


> She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Novaman said:


> She is saying it to be hateful-she doesn't mean it


My wife learned early on not to be sarcastic and say only what you mean or i will do exactly that thing to the Nth degree. Dont be sarcastic or you might eat your attitude. She made that comment, it would mean open marriage for me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> The OP's words:


uh... I missed that!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not saying it's not acceptable, but that it's a good blackmailing tool. It makes you feel you are just a pig, only interested in sex, especially after many years of marriage.


She has you brainwashed if you feel that way. The problem is her committing mental abuse by withholding sex from the marriage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> She has you brainwashed if you feel that way. The problem is her committing mental abuse by withholding sex from the marriage.


It wasn't brainwashing... it was just pure abusive blackmailing. Of course you don't leave "just for sex". Sex is another way of making the emotional connection, at least for me. I always knew my wife was talking ******** about that. She didn't get it. Sure, I did feel like a pig at the beginning, because it's a powerful weapon, but then I understood. It wasn't my fault. My point is that some women just don't get the sexual/emotional connection aspect and see it as the male just wanting them for sex = pig. Which is not true, obviously.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Night Owl1 said:


> Interesting...the task of staying married versus not is always challenging, especially if you’ve been married a long time....
> Unlike others posting in this forum, I feel you’re egocentric. Working out 7 days a week & informing the readers of your physique only serves to illustrate how self absorbed you are with your appearance. Also, your remarks about your wealth only serves as materialism. I do not find these details relevant or necessary. You sound like a man who feels entitled to sex, expects sex, and is perplexed because, how can you not get sex when you are all these “wonderful” things you tell us? it sounds to me that you’re not being truthful about your intentions. It sounds like your entertaining leaving your wife ( because you’re not getting what you want) or seeking to justify a clandestine romance (with a willing partner).
> Intimacy that is fulfilling is NOT about sexual intercourse. It can be achieved through affectionate acts, such as, hand holding, caressing, kissing, or holding each other in bed at night. Fore play is important. Flirting with each other is important. Connecting emotionally, caring for one another is a task, as important, or more so, than working out daily.
> I believe there are other issues here. The lack of sex is a symptom of a greater problem.
> ...


He brings up those things because there is alot of shallow women out there that those things matter greatly to. He is stating those cant be the reasons.

Problem is she is not a berson sex is important to so she just shuts it off and expects him to be good with it. 

To some people sex is the glue that bonds the marriage. It is a deeply emotional thing between a husband and wife. The longer it is between sex with my wife the further away emotionally i feel from her. If wife wants a sexless marriage...she will be treated like my sister. Occasional peck on cheek or hug, she lives her life i live mine....speak occasionally.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Asterix said:


> There will be a whole lot of huffing and then whole lot of puffing, then there will be a bunch of tantrums…


I thought huffing and puffing was usually followed by blowing your house down.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Novaman said:


> Well, I’m back 9 months later to vent yet again. Things did get better for a while- I would push the issue and my wife would compromise and allow me to have sex maybe once every 1-2 weeks. But the sex is almost always one sided. She is just not interested. the frequency has continued to decline and it is now getting closer to once a month which is not acceptable for me. As a result, I’ve begun masturbating again just to get a release.
> 
> the latest riff about this has put me in a funk. I have been depressed now for almost a week- it Comes after a long spell where she constantly rebuffed my advances. She has now tried to offer “make up“ sex which I am turning down as I am just tired of this sexual relationship being one sided. We just had an argument about it and she said that I can’t expect to get my happiness from her. I then said that perhaps I need to find my happiness from somewhere else and she got really upset and stormed off.
> 
> this is sad.


She is the one that told you to go elsewhere for sex.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Your wife is right, though, and she is offering you what she can. You don't want that, which is fair enough. I understand she is upset, but you two are mismatched and there is no solution. One of you is destined to be unhappy, whatever you decide.


Or the marriage is opened for him so they both sexually satisfied.

Or divorce and she can continue without and he can find a woman that truely loves him and wants to sexually fulfill him.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> I thought huffing and puffing was usually followed by blowing your house down.


Just blowing on the fire embers to 🔥 the house down! 

I was always a "Rock the boat hell! ...I'm going to sink it! I can swim to shore!"


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> it is difficult to read some of these. they are true, in that the OP desperately needs more sex, and no matter what he does, she does not improve.
> 
> but this is pretty clearly a medical problem. she no longer has any sex hormones, or libido. so she literally does not understand what the whole problem is.
> 
> ...


If a spouse needs HRT and chooses not to get it addressed....it is not a medical issue...it is a choice!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> If a spouse needs HRT and chooses not to get it addressed....it is not a medical issue...it is a choice!


there are well known side effects from HRT. the blood thickens, for instance. a lot of people who are using blood thinners could not do it! 

so yes, a choice, but for some a choice between safety and having a sex life. 

i PERSONALLY would risk it for the sex, but not all would make that choice, and you need to respect their personal decision.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> there are well known side effects from HRT. the blood thickens, for instance. a lot of people who are using blood thinners could not do it!
> 
> so yes, a choice, but for some a choice between safety and having a sex life.
> 
> i PERSONALLY would risk it for the sex, but not all would make that choice, and you need to respect their personal decision.


I take blood thinners 2x day and T injection 2x week. T causes increased red cell count...no problem. Give blood every couple of months, problem solved....as my Dr. stated.

Safety ....BS! Unless a woman has already been diagnosed with cancer that feeds off estrogen dominance. But then again the Testosterone is the main hormone driving sex drive. Nothing unsafe about bio-identical hormones. The breast cancer issues of 70s & 80s were the synthetic estrogen women were given.

The Chief Oncologist(woman)in the Women's Cancer Center at Baylor Medical Center in Dallas stated women should take all 3 HRT after menopause/ hystorectomy... testosterone, progesterone and estrogen. Make sure it is bio-identical. 

Like wise a withholding spouse needs to respect the other spouses decision to eject from the marriage due to the emotional abuse from withholding intamacy.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So to recap...wife literally lays there "like a corpse" (OP's words) when sex does occur which is almost never, she refuses any hormone replacement, but she isn't interested in a continuing sex life to keep a loving sexual connection despite the low libido she isn't interested in exploring treating in any way, she expresses disdain at anything sensual, and she refuses any counseling together because "he's the one with the problem".

Stick a fork in it, it's done. You no longer have a marriage, you have a roommate.

Lots of couples have a loving connected sex life well into their 70s. And you two are in your 50s. 50s!!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Livvie said:


> So to recap...wife literally lays there "like a corpse" (OP's words) when sex does occur which is almost never, she refuses any hormone replacement, but she isn't interested in a continuing sex life to keep a loving sexual connection despite the low libido she isn't interested in exploring treating in any way, she expresses disdain at anything sensual, and she refuses any counseling together because "he's the one with the problem".
> 
> Stick a fork in it, it's done. You no longer have a marriage, you have a roommate.
> 
> Lots of couples have a loving connected sex life well into their 70s. And you two are in your 50s. 50s!!!


Don't forget -- she also expects him to remain monogamous (ie: celibate)


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> there are well known side effects from HRT. the blood thickens, for instance. a lot of people who are using blood thinners could not do it!
> 
> so yes, a choice, but for some a choice between safety and having a sex life.
> 
> i PERSONALLY would risk it for the sex, but not all would make that choice, and you need to respect their personal decision.


IF this is ever true for someone, it only happens in .001% of the cases.

And everyone's personal decisions should definitely be respected...but then so should the choice to open or leave any relationship that doesn't meet a person's sexual needs.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> IF this is ever true for someone, it only happens in .001% of the cases.
> 
> And everyone's personal decisions should definitely be respected...but then so should the choice to open or leave any relationship that doesn't meet a person's sexual needs.


You are like a paternal twin sister... sometimes think we share the same brain with your responses. Definitely on same page with thought processes. Great minds think alike. 😁


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I wonder what the number (percentage) of marriages with poor sex lives fall into this trap with either the wife needing some hormone help or the guy has low T and yet they don't want to address it and the other spouse suffers?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I wonder what the number (percentage) of marriages with poor sex lives fall into this trap with either the wife needing some hormone help or the guy has low T and yet they don't want to address it and the other spouse suffers?


I don't know about T and hormones, but my wife refused to have therapy for her mental issues and that completely sunk our marriage due to her inability to function mentally and sexually (was taking heavy libido-killing medications). So, she made a conscious decision to kill the marriage.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I don't know about T and hormones, but my wife refused to have therapy for her mental issues and that completely sunk our marriage due to her inability to function mentally and sexually (was taking heavy libido-killing medications). So, she made a conscious decision to kill the marriage.


So another example of a health issue more or less than one person decided to ignore\refuse to treat and it affected the other partner. I am starting to think that happens alot.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So another example of a health issue more or less than one person decided to ignore\refuse to treat and it affected the other partner. I am starting to think that happens alot.


Yes, it's called SELFISHNESS and entitlement.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Divinely Favored said:


> You are like a paternal twin sister... sometimes think we share the same brain with your responses. Definitely on same page with thought processes. Great minds think alike. 😁


I know!!! You write alot of things that make me say "EXACTLY!".

It would have been great to read your posts back when I was really struggling with my husband, and needed the words for how badly I was feeling!!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


I highlighted your biggest problem. She knows you’re not going anywhere. If you do she’ll be rewarded. She likely has sex with you in years past in order to keep you on the hook.
Now, it doesn’t matter to her if you’re on the hook or not. You lack importance to her and she has no interest in pleasing you.
Stop treating her like a queen, stop wining and dining her. What benefit does it provide to YoU?
Maybe you could outline her other good qualities so we can understand why you settle for no romantic interest from your wife.

btw, I would not want to get rid of my wife of so many years and have to look for love again either, while losing half my assets and likely pay her to leave. I’m just venting too I guess lol.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Growing a backbone doesn't always remind your partner to see you and care about your needs...and people need to be ready for THAT consequence as well.


There are many sayings for this, such as "No pain, no gain."
However, sometimes, you have to be willing to break it to fix it.
If past practice is an indicator, she will step up as she did when the YNC came into the picture.
Sure, there is the possibility that she is done.
However if that is the case, someone needs to make the move and stick the fork in it.
If a satisfactory sex life is that vitally important to the OP, he needs to step up, change the dynamic and do the work to improve his plight.
If she is not willing to do her part, then OP has a serious decision to make.
In the end though, there is only one person who can release himself from the purgatory he is in and that is the OP.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Novaman said:


> Well, I’m back 9 months later to vent yet again. Things did get better for a while- I would push the issue and my wife would compromise and allow me to have sex maybe once every 1-2 weeks. But the sex is almost always one sided. She is just not interested. the frequency has continued to decline and it is now getting closer to once a month which is not acceptable for me. As a result, I’ve begun masturbating again just to get a release.
> 
> the latest riff about this has put me in a funk. I have been depressed now for almost a week- it Comes after a long spell where she constantly rebuffed my advances. She has now tried to offer “make up“ sex which I am turning down as I am just tired of this sexual relationship being one sided. We just had an argument about it and she said that I can’t expect to get my happiness from her. I then said that perhaps I need to find my happiness from somewhere else and she got really upset and stormed off.
> 
> this is sad.


In a way you are both correct - she cannot or will not provide the kind of sexual connection and chemistry that you want so you cannot expect to get your happiness from here. So she is correct there, she simply isn't the one that you will be able to have passionate sexual chemistry with. That ship has sailed. 

You can masturbate with your own hand, or if you are nice and a good boy and you ask nicely she will "allow" (your word) you to masturbate with her body every now and then. 

And you are also correct in that if you are needing a higher octane sexual dynamic, it is going to have to be with someone else. 

She's a 50something year old post menopausal woman that has been with you for over 30 years..... While some of the studs here may still have robust monkey sex into their 50s and 60s after 30some years of marriage, they are the exception and not the rule. Some of these guys are studly enough they could walk out the front door at 5PM and have a dinner date with some other chick with reservations at 7. Yes their wives are laying them like tile on the regular, but they know deep down in they don't that these guys could replace them by the weekend. 

And there are some highly sexual women on this site in their 50s. But a number of them are divorced and single. A number of them have BFs that they have been with a few years. And some of them are with their 2nd or even 3rd husband and have been with them a handful of years. But I don't know if any of them are still with their first husband of over 30-40some years and are still hot and heavy for husbands sexually. They may have a working and functional marital sex life,,,, but they aren't tearing his clothes off and begging him for hot porn sex night after night. 

In days of yore, if a wife maintained a functional home and family life for 30 years, wasn't screwing other people and still drained her husband's tank somehow before he started roaming the streets trying to get it elsewhere - she was a top tier wife and one that all the other guys of similar age and similar marital status were envious of. 

This is why there is a robust Sugar Baby industry and why escorts and prostitution are still the oldest profession and why businessmen and executives throughout the land are screwing their secretaries. And why Ashley Madison became an overnight billion dollar success. 

You can have a hot and heavy sex life that looks like something out of a porno flick in your 50s assuming you are still healthy and vigorous. 

And you can have a stable and secure and functional home and family life with a good woman that you have been married to for over 30+ years. 

But to have both with the same woman after 30+ years just isn't all that realistic in the real world. 

A lot of guys in their 50s and beyond that have been with the same woman for over 30 years, aren't really having sex at all. 

And a lot of us are probably like you where we are technically having some kind of sexual activity now and then and cannot technically classify ourselves as sexless or in an actual dead bedroom, but it is nothing like our yesteryears and just not all that exciting or satisfying. 

It comes down to your own core values and mores --- what is more important to you, a functional and stable home and family life and not splitting up the furniture, retirement accounts and equity in the house? 

Or a hot and heavy sex life??

Or try to have both through either some kind of open marriage arrangment, or seeing what you can get on the down low. 

It IS a choice.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

He's not expecting a hot and heavy porn sex life. 

He's expecting a pleasant, minimal sex life in which she doesn't lay there literally like a corpse. And no, that's NOT too much to expect.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Stop treating her like a queen, stop wining and dining her. What benefit does it provide to YoU?


This ^. OP stated all the things he does for her 9 months ago and he is catering to her. Shut that down, who cares if it is important to her if she doesn't care what is important to you.

The excuses and lies and not following through, it is just clear avoidance by her....she knows you will just continue to stick around and pamper her.

Ask her to move into a guest bedroom.

Start doing other things... the world is much more open than it was 9 months ago.

Setup couples counseling and tell her when the appointments are, if she attends, she attends...

You need to prepare to lose this if you want to save it, although I'm not convinced it is worth saving.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

No stress, no responsibility, no need to do anything?

maybe she is bored.

it’s not like women with nothing to do would just lay around there and want to have sex all day.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Should be able to have both, if the couple truely loves each other they will try their damnedest to satisfy and please each other to the fullest. 

I have been with my beloved wife 25+ and i pamper her every chance i can. Have her coffee for her when i wake her up in AM with back rubs. She usually had dinner fixed and pulls off my boots when i get home and brings me a glass of tea. 

We both take HRT. I try to give her the world every day and she rocks my world almost every night. Our marriage is better than it has ever been and keeps getting better.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

A previous poster mentioned less time between sex (or connecting activity) makes you see them as a sibling. I totally relate. My wife recently went back to work and we’re basically co-parents/roommates M-Saturday morning and co-parents with benefits for 25 minutes a month if she worked out that day and a myriad of other conditions are met.

I’m on HRT and love it. Wife (48 peri menopausal) tried and didn’t like chin hair and was paranoid about an enlarged clitoris. So she quit. It was great while it lasted. She was confident, would even dress up, had powerful orgasms but chin hair was more important. 

24 hours after getting the pellets, she said all she could think about was sex and when was I coming home. I said “that’s how I feel everyday.” Her response was “I don’t know how you do it.” It was nice she experienced what I feel but she admits doesn’t think about it anymore.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

aaarghdub said:


> A previous poster mentioned less time between sex (or connecting activity) makes you see them as a sibling. I totally relate. My wife recently went back to work and we’re basically co-parents/roommates M-Saturday morning and co-parents with benefits for 25 minutes a month if she worked out that day and a myriad of other conditions are met.
> 
> I’m on HRT and love it. Wife (48 peri menopausal) tried and didn’t like chin hair and was paranoid about an enlarged clitoris. So she quit. It was great while it lasted. She was confident, would even dress up, had powerful orgasms but chin hair was more important.
> 
> 24 hours after getting the pellets, she said all she could think about was sex and when was I coming home. I said “that’s how I feel everyday.” Her response was “I don’t know how you do it.” It was nice she experienced what I feel but she admits doesn’t think about it anymore.


Did she take testosterone??

Because I'm thinking estrogen and progesterone do not contribute to chin hair. 

Chin hair might come back in later years when her own estrogen and progesterone drop more and testosterone is her leading hormone.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Testosterone pellets and the progesterone pills 

She quit the progesterone as well. Phenomenal sleep but she said her breasts felt like she was pregnant all the time. 

She tries a little of my extra gel but thought it was messy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

aaarghdub said:


> Testosterone pellets and the progesterone pills
> 
> She quit the progesterone as well. Phenomenal sleep but she said her breasts felt like she was pregnant all the time.
> 
> ...


Okay, so you know she doesn't really care about your needs at all. Seriously, a chin hair is a major issue to prevent her from taking care of you and connecting better?

I'm not making a good vs. bad call on this, just stating the facts. What's your next move?


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

DTO said:


> Okay, so you know she doesn't really care about your needs at all. Seriously, a chin hair is a major issue to prevent her from taking care of you and connecting better?
> 
> I'm not making a good vs. bad call on this, just stating the facts. What's your next move?


I agree it’s not about the chin hair. It’s an intimacy problem for her and always has been (ie sex feels more like FWB sex- never discuss and once you get off, you get out). She also hates doctors and has a phobia of side effects. She still languishes with peri-menopause, chronic migraines, Menorrhagia, low T, brain fog etc. Her migraine meds make her periods worse so she stops the meds only to have the headaches come back worse. Rinse and repeat. To me it’s clear, stay on the meds, get HRT and ablation for the bleeding. Done. But she doesn’t see it that way as she’s focused on side effects and what ifs.

After years of “nothing is ever good enough for you” I just opted to hoist her up on her own petard. Her biggest thing is the an ever increasing standard of living, particularly a bigger house/family compound. And after years of her doing nothing aside from complaining about our house and me putting a lot of blood,swear and tears into this and other houses, I just started to remind her “nothing is ever good enough for her.” She may say porn isn’t realistic (which it isn’t) but neither is HGTV.

If she wants to play the “not good enough for you” game and I can do the same. I can play the “have realistic expectations” game as well. My point here is, in a relationship, you can take pride in your partner wanting for nothing or take pride that you’ve successfully gamed the max benefit for the minimum effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> I agree it’s not about the chin hair. It’s an intimacy problem for her and always has been (ie sex feels more like FWB sex- never discuss and once you get off, you get out). She also hates doctors and has a phobia of side effects. She still languishes with peri-menopause, chronic migraines, Menorrhagia, low T, brain fog etc. Her migraine meds make her periods worse so she stops the meds only to have the headaches come back worse. Rinse and repeat. To me it’s clear, stay on the meds, get HRT and ablation for the bleeding. Done. But she doesn’t see it that way as she’s focused on side effects and what ifs.
> 
> After years of “nothing is ever good enough for you” I just opted to hoist her up on her own petard. Her biggest thing is the an ever increasing standard of living, particularly a bigger house/family compound. And after years of her doing nothing aside from complaining about our house and me putting a lot of blood,swear and tears into this and other houses, I just started to remind her “nothing is ever good enough for her.” She may say porn isn’t realistic (which it isn’t) but neither is HGTV.
> 
> ...


Why do you put up with all this crap?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

aaarghdub said:


> Her biggest thing is the an ever increasing standard of living, particularly a bigger house/family compound. And after years of her doing nothing aside from complaining about our house and me putting a lot of blood,swear and tears into this and other houses, I just started to remind her “nothing is ever good enough for her.” She may say porn isn’t realistic (which it isn’t) but neither is HGTV.


Are we somehow married to the same woman??? Are we somehow unknowingly in a polyandrous marriage? LOL

I actually call HGTV "house porn" because that is exactly what it is.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Are we somehow married to the same woman??? Are we somehow unknowingly in a polyandrous marriage? LOL
> 
> I actually call HGTV "house porn" because that is exactly what it is.


sorry, FOOD PORN is what turns ME on! 
expecially BBQ food porn.

"oooh baby, give me the bacon"


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

aaarghdub said:


> If she wants to play the “not good enough for you” game I can do the same. I can play the “have realistic expectations” game as well. My point here is, in a relationship, you can take pride in your partner wanting for nothing or take pride that you’ve successfully gamed the max benefit for the minimum effort.


Agreed. I'll add that the improved sex life you want takes relatively few resources compared to the household improvements she wants.

You need to keep driving home the point she does not get to prioritize her wants and needs over yours.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

aaarghdub said:


> I just started to remind her “nothing is ever good enough for her.” She may say porn isn’t realistic (which it isn’t) but neither is HGTV.


I understand that it is subjective but I think that the rom-coms are among the most unrealistic videos shown on TV.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

We’ve currently had sex twice in last 8 weeks, the twice been within a 6 day period over a month ago.

Got fed up on getting rejected so I’ve withdrew now. We’re on holiday and usually we have sex everyday during this time as my wife needs to relax to get interested. Ha.

anyway she made a comment about me not initiating because in her words she never will. By the pool today we’ve had a few drinks not lots so I told her I’m going the room follow me up in ten mins as we’re with friends. She just laughed. Needless to say I waited 30 mins she didn’t arrive. So I got my laptop out and paid deposit on gym I’ve been looking joining for a while. It’s not cheap but gets in you in top shape in 12 weeks. I’m talking Zac Effron in bay watch

goes back down by the pool she’s asleep on sunbed.

I told her the other night what I was going to do. This road leads to divorce in the next few months and I’m looking forward to it.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> We’ve currently had sex twice in last 8 weeks, the twice been within a 6 day period over a month ago.
> 
> Got fed up on getting rejected so I’ve withdrew now. We’re on holiday and usually we have sex everyday during this time as my wife needs to relax to get interested. Ha.
> 
> ...


I think my wife must have seen what I had written here last night because literally 10 mins after posting she actually initiated and we ended up having sex.

We had a discussion afterwards were I suggested what another forum member posted that helped his marriage. Basically during the next 30 or 60 days he initiates and his wife doesn’t reject him. My wife said ok we’ll start tomorrow. Which is now today.

Day one. I’ve just initiated, and got rejected as as usual. She feels sick apparently we can start in a few days when we’re home from holiday. I just replied don’t worry I’ll find someone else to do it with. Don’t threaten me she said.

it wasn’t a threat. It was a promise I replied.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BIL310 said:


> Don’t threaten me she said.
> 
> it wasn’t a threat. It was a promise I replied.


Welcome to my club - or ex club. It's not going to get any better. You are trapped in the same vicious circle. The only solution is to break it. That said, maybe she never got over your cheating.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Welcome to my club - or ex club. It's not going to get any better. You are trapped in the same vicious circle. The only solution is to break it. That said, maybe she never got over your cheating.


she was the same before so she’s not falling back on that excuse.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BIL310 said:


> she was the same before so she’s not falling back on that excuse.


 Fair enough... are you sure everything else is fine in your relationship? I remember you mentioning having financial problems at some point. I don't know... from your posts it seems your wife doesn't respect you much and is staying in the marriage because of the kids? Not sure what she is getting out of this marriage.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Fair enough... are you sure everything else is fine in your relationship? I remember you mentioning having financial problems at some point. I don't know... from your posts it seems your wife doesn't respect you much and is staying in the marriage because of the kids? Not sure what she is getting out of this marriage.


Things are ok now and I’m back earning a decent salary. We’re on holiday now which I actually paid for.

It’s all just excuses. She must think I was born yesterday.
It’s always on her terms. Everything. And I’m done with it.

You’re 100 percent right nothing will ever change.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BIL310 said:


> Things are ok now and I’m back earning a decent salary. We’re on holiday now which I actually paid for.
> 
> It’s all just excuses. She must think I was born yesterday.
> It’s always on her terms. Everything. And I’m done with it.
> ...


If you think everything else is fine in the relationship, you are not satisfied with your sex life and regular and rewarding sex is important to you, then it's time to pull the plug.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

aaarghdub said:


> A previous poster mentioned less time between sex (or connecting activity) makes you see them as a sibling. I totally relate. My wife recently went back to work and we’re basically co-parents/roommates M-Saturday morning and co-parents with benefits for 25 minutes a month if she worked out that day and a myriad of other conditions are met.
> 
> I’m on HRT and love it. Wife (48 peri menopausal) tried and didn’t like chin hair and was paranoid about an enlarged clitoris. So she quit. It was great while it lasted. She was confident, would even dress up, had powerful orgasms but chin hair was more important.
> 
> 24 hours after getting the pellets, she said all she could think about was sex and when was I coming home. I said “that’s how I feel everyday.” Her response was “I don’t know how you do it.” It was nice she experienced what I feel but she admits doesn’t think about it anymore.


You were not as important to her as her worries about chin hairs.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BIL310 said:


> I just replied don’t worry I’ll find someone else to do it with. Don’t threaten me she said.
> 
> it wasn’t a threat. It was a promise I replied.


Amen.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> Things are ok now and I’m back earning a decent salary. We’re on holiday now which I actually paid for.
> 
> It’s all just excuses. She must think I was born yesterday.
> It’s always on her terms. Everything. And I’m done with it.
> ...


Your first and only mistake was marriage. Never do that again and don't ever let a woman move in with you. Same result.


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## Angel wings (Oct 31, 2021)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


Wow that's hectic are you sure she not shopping online? You should ask her if there someone else because that's not normal my dear....


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> I told her the other night what I was going to do. This road leads to divorce in the next few months and I’m looking forward to it.





BIL310 said:


> I think my wife must have seen what I had written here last night because literally 10 mins after posting she actually initiated and we ended up having sex.


I think what she did was just a band-aid on a severe situation (I didn't want to you appropriate although graphic words here). Based on what you've written, I gather that she reads what you write to vent about your situation. So, she threw you some bones to appease you. 

I'm sorry to say this, but you may want to check out the r/deadbedrooms subreddit to get a clear idea about how things could go down the road. If your wife is reading, hopefully she'll go visit that sub and see the damage her behavior is causing it. 

What she did could be construed as a poor attempt at p00sie whipping and by her very nature it's not likely that she's going to be able to keep up with that. If I'm reading it correctly, I think you both have significantly mismatched libidos and situation is not going to get any better. It is in your (and your wife's) best interests to find partners with matched libidos. IS she's doing all this because you provide her with a comfortable lifestyle that she's now accustomed to? So, are you just a wallet to her? Even if you set all that aside for the moment, you can think of the vows that you took of "to have and to hold". She is reneging on the "to hold" part. Also, if you are not getting your needs met in the monogamous relationship, have you considered discussing either opening up the relationship or separating?


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Asterix said:


> I think what she did was just a band-aid on a severe situation (I didn't want to you appropriate although graphic words here). Based on what you've written, I gather that she reads what you write to vent about your situation. So, she threw you some bones to appease you.
> 
> I'm sorry to say this, but you may want to check out the r/deadbedrooms subreddit to get a clear idea about how things could go down the road. If your wife is reading, hopefully she'll go visit that sub and see the damage her behavior is causing it.
> 
> What she did could be construed as a poor attempt at p00sie whipping and by her very nature it's not likely that she's going to be able to keep up with that. If I'm reading it correctly, I think you both have significantly mismatched libidos and situation is not going to get any better. It is in your (and your wife's) best interests to find partners with matched libidos. IS she's doing all this because you provide her with a comfortable lifestyle that she's now accustomed to? So, are you just a wallet to her? Even if you set all that aside for the moment, you can think of the vows that you took of "to have and to hold". She is reneging on the "to hold" part. Also, if you are not getting your needs met in the monogamous relationship, have you considered discussing either opening up the relationship or separating?


Correct. She didn’t actually read what I’d written I was using it to make a point.

I hadn’t initiated for around 4 weeks as I was sick of getting rejected when we were both sober. During first few days of our holiday she was on her period so nothing sexual was happening anyway but she said something about not doing anything because I hadn’t been near her for weeks and that she was never going to initiate. I replied with the reason why and she said she doesn’t always reject me whilst sober. She’s got a selective memory.

A few days later I’d made it clear I’d make excuses to go back to our hotel room during the day whilst kids were out and she could follow me up so our friends wouldn’t know what we were up to. I went up the room and waited for 20 mins. No sign of her. I came back down and she was asleep on the sunbed.

The next day my wife’s friend made a remark about her husband and my wife replied oh he (meaning me)went up the room a few times yesterday and I knew he wanted me to follow but I stayed on the sunbed to spite him.

What a time to be alive! Ha.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> Correct. She didn’t actually read what I’d written I was using it to make a point.
> 
> I hadn’t initiated for around 4 weeks as I was sick of getting rejected when we were both sober. During first few days of our holiday she was on her period so nothing sexual was happening anyway but she said something about not doing anything because I hadn’t been near her for weeks and that she was never going to initiate. I replied with the reason why and she said she doesn’t always reject me whilst sober. She’s got a selective memory.
> 
> ...


She's an idiot woman. I don't mean any disrespect, but you can be sure that she'll be sorry once you are done with the marriage.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> The next day my wife’s friend made a remark about her husband and my wife replied oh he (meaning me)went up the room a few times yesterday and I knew he wanted me to follow but I stayed on the sunbed to spite him.
> 
> What a time to be alive! Ha.


So, you know what's happening and you know what you need to do. 

I'm really not sure why you are still with her? Please don't tell me "for the sake of the kids".


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> The next day my wife’s friend made a remark about her husband and my wife replied oh he (meaning me)went up the room a few times yesterday and I knew he wanted me to follow but I stayed on the sunbed to spite him.
> 
> What a time to be alive! Ha.


What a ****ing *****. And I truly mean that. 

Have her served with divorce papers. 

Nothing will make this a happy marriage. Nothing.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> What a *ing **. And I truly mean that.
> 
> Have her served with divorce papers.
> 
> Nothing will make this a happy marriage. Nothing.


But she choose him!

That line from the wife is supposed to keep the man in the marriage forever.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

@BIL310 , So now you know that this is willful, disrespectful, intentional and (up to a certain extent) malicious behavior?

The only question(s) I have for you is this: Are you a masochist? Are you enjoying this?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

It’s interesting how on so many threads the OP will post once or just a couple times and the thread just keeps going and going and going ....


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Asterix said:


> So, you know what's happening and you know what you need to do.
> 
> I'm really not sure why you are still with her? Please don't tell me "for the sake of the kids".


I told her a couple of days before, in front of her friend that after the holiday I’m getting in the best shape of my life over the next 12 weeks and I’m gonna find someone to have a fulfilling normal relationship with.

Don’t you dare threaten me she said. Oh she didn’t like it.

I start in the gym Monday.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

Asterix said:


> @BIL310 , So now you know that this is willful, disrespectful, intentional and (up to a certain extent) malicious behavior?
> 
> *The only question(s) I have for you is this: Are you a masochist? Are you enjoying this?*


@BIL310 , I apologize for my harsh language. Please believe me, I'm not mad AT you. I'm mad FOR you. 



BIL310 said:


> I start in the gym Monday.


Awesome! 

Please check out the serenity prayer (it is non-denominational). You cannot control your wife's behavior, neither should you want to or need to. You can only control your own behavior and your own actions. I'm happy to hear that you are taking steps to be the future better you with a better future for you.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Livvie said:


> What a *ing **. And I truly mean that.
> 
> Have her served with divorce papers.
> 
> Nothing will make this a happy marriage. Nothing.


She didn't say it as harsh as maybe it sounds on paper, it was more of a joke remark and we'd had sex an hour before.

However it's still not on. At all.

My wife said the 30 day period (of which she doesn't refuse when I initiate) could begin when back from our holiday. Anyway we got back last Wednesday, both tired from all the travelling for a couple of days but we ended up having sex on the Friday - although again this was after we'd both had a few drinks in our house and I initiated as normal.

Anyway last night was the first time I tried to initiate since (both sober), we'd had some affection on the couch (rubbing feet), then she started cuddling in bed etc so I thought there's no better time. Result - shot down. Needs her beauty sleep as she was up early for workout. I said how do you think our 30 day challenge is going? To which she replied I think it's going great. Then laughed. Then she turned over on her front into her normal I'm going to sleep now position.

I didn't expect anything else to be honest. I'm fully aware I'm in a marriage where my wife has told me she will never initiate and it's up to me, but will reject me when sober and the only time i'll be successful is when she's had a few drinks. That's not the type of marriage I want to be in. 

I've been in the gym since Monday and got no plans to drink any alcohol until at least Christmas. She'll soon realise I wasn't lying when I said I'm getting in the best shape of my life and I'll find someone to have a normal relationship with. (although I will leave her before that happens).


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> She didn't say it as harsh as maybe it sounds on paper, it was more of a joke remark and we'd had sex an hour before.
> 
> However it's still not on. At all.
> 
> ...


I hope you finally do!!!


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> I said how do you think our 30 day challenge is going? To which she replied I think it's going great. *Then laughed*.


I truly hope that this demonstrates her utter lack of respect towards you. She knows what she's doing, she knows how it is affecting you and she still does it anyway and laughs about it. I don't know if you are masochist or not but it sounds like she's at least selfish and maybe even a sadist. 



BIL310 said:


> I didn't expect anything else to be honest. I'm fully aware I'm in a marriage where my wife has told me she will never initiate and it's up to me, but will reject me when sober and the only time i'll be successful is when she's had a few drinks. That's not the type of marriage I want to be in.


I think the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same and expecting a different result.



BIL310 said:


> I've been in the gym since Monday and got no plans to drink any alcohol until at least Christmas. *She'll soon realise I wasn't lying* when I said I'm getting in the best shape of my life and I'll find someone to have a normal relationship with. (although I will leave her before that happens).


I think, you are still dancing to her tune and you are hoping and giving her too much credit. The above highlighted sentence makes me realize that you are still doing her bidding and the moment she throws some scrapes your way, you'll go running back to her. I think it is going to be a farce if you serve her with the divorce papers. The first thing to think about is what you really want out of life and then standing true to that. Right now, I think that you have a weak spine and she knows where all your buttons are so that she can push them at her leisure.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Asterix said:


> I think, you are still dancing to her tune and you are hoping and giving her too much credit. The above highlighted sentence makes me realize that you are still doing her bidding and the moment she throws some scrapes your way, you'll go running back to her. I think it is going to be a farce if you serve her with the divorce papers. The first thing to think about is what you really want out of life and then standing true to that. Right now, I think that you have a weak spine and she knows where all your buttons are so that she can push them at her leisure.


To be quite honest I'm not even sure I like her anymore never-mind love her. (And that does make me feel sad) She's a control freak and doesn't like it now I've called her out on it. Not just in the bedroom either.

My new gym regime is a problem for her as it's too expensive, I'm not contributing enough to the house (I am but it never enough money for her) and could get better results doing this and that and as usual she wants me to play her tune. It's also taking too much time out of my work day. I can get more work done in 5 hours (I'm self employed) then I can in the 9 hours that most people spend working for someone. I told her that but now I could be using them other 3 hours to earn money doing something different.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Talk = nothing. Only when you figure that out will you get anywhere.


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## 352525 (Dec 4, 2021)

Novaman said:


> We've been happily married for 32 years now. Wife has always had a lower sex drive than myself. Early on I would be happy with sex every day whereas she would be far less interested so sex would happen a few times a week. The years have passed and my wife's interest in sex continues to lessen.
> 
> We have now reached the point where she is basically not interested in sex anymore. We still have sex, but sometimes it is once a month now, and nearly always it is just to placate me as she would be perfectly happy with never having sex. Her having sex to just "do her duty" is one of near total disinterest on her part. She just lays there like a corpse and waits for me to be done.
> 
> ...


Tell her how it makes you feel. Tell her it’s not working and that it’s not going to be ok. She either figures it out or I guess I’d find sex elsewhere.


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

Novaman said:


> Thanks for the response. She often uses the excuse that I'm not romantic enough. But I've known her for 36 years so I've learned to be very romantic. She still will sometimes use that as an excuse but I call her out on it ands then she says "well I'm just not in the mood!"
> 
> I keep myself in really good shape. I am 5-11 171 lbs. waist size 32. I work out 7 days a week doing weights, HITT, P90X, Insanity, cardio, etc. Both my wife and I have aged very well. I am 57 but people think I am in my late 30's. Over the years, I have garnered plenty of flirtatious attention from attractive females in their 20's and 30's, as recently as 3 months ago. But I am a decent man who is committed to my marriage. So I let them know immediately that I am NOT in my late 30's and that I am happily married and a grandpa!
> 
> The remark you made that is bolded is likely part of the problem. I say this because they last time we had a period of hot sex where my wife really paid attention to me and wanted me was about 7 years ago over a 2 month period when our relationship was strained. I had been asked to look after a young college coed who was staying on our area for a summer job. She turned out to be absolutely gorgeous and we really clicked. She had a difficult time that summer and kept turning to me for assistance because she had no where else to go- I became a father figure to her. Well the red flags went up with my wife and it was definitely the most difficult period of our 32 year marriage. Nothing ever happened between the young lady and myself (like I said, I am a decent man committed to remaining faithful to my marriage vows) but boy did the sex get hot between me and the wife for a brief period of time.


Isn't it funny how when there are options, how quickly the desire comes back all the sudden?
How true it is, how so many take each other for granted, the longer they are together or once they get what they want. 
Excuses are just that, see 1st sentence!


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## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

As I tell my brother who is in a sexless marriage and he will not leave, because he said he made a commitment. I say Cheat Then. She broke the vows, then he doesn't need to honor them either.


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