# Experiences with counselors and a typical problem



## msrv23

Hey guys, I'm new here and I check the forum from time to time. I would like to ask if anyone has been in counseling for the same problem and how it went?

Basically the problem between me and my husband is a typical one. I feel a lack of emotional bond and intimacy, tried to talk things out for years without success (I might have failed to explain well enough and he might have failed to listen properly), and gradually distanced. So as time passed, we became physically distant too.

The problem is that without emotional intimacy I can't feel comfortable with physical intimacy. My husband might not understand it and I might not know how to explain it, so we looked for a counselor to help us communicate better.

Unfortunately things didn't go well as our counselor only told us to try more physical contacts. Our counselor also dismissed and even joked with my feelings.
After thinking about it, we decided to try another counselor.

If you have been in similar problem, and went to a counselor, what did they advise to do? Did it go well? Thank you.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I had a counselor do the same. He just didn't understand how a man could need the closeness of emotional intimacy before he could even start to be interested in sex with anyone. He didn't know why a man would need to feel he could trust a woman or respect her, before he wanted to sleep with her. 

Many women don't like men who are too emotionally intimate. It can make them lose their attraction for him. It can be difficult. 

I wonder if your therapist is concerned that you won't want him once he starts becoming more emotionally intimate with you? If you aren't physically attracted to him with a strong chemical part of that, I'm not sure how things can change. 

You may need to just be physical and get that release from him and expect nothing more. Some women will get that from friends who have similar issues, by spending time talking and expressing themselves. 

It isn't fun to feel like you aren't worth the effort to be heard. It crushes your self-worth and makes you feel like a tool to be used when convenient. 

Sucks.......


----------



## msrv23

2ntnuf said:


> I had a counselor do the same. He just didn't understand how a man could need the closeness of emotional intimacy before he could even start to be interested in sex with anyone. He didn't know why a man would need to feel he could trust a woman or respect her, before he wanted to sleep with her.
> 
> Many women don't like men who are too emotionally intimate. It can make them lose their attraction for him. It can be difficult.
> 
> I wonder if your therapist is concerned that you won't want him once he starts becoming more emotionally intimate with you? If you aren't physically attracted to him with a strong chemical part of that, I'm not sure how things can change.
> 
> You may need to just be physical and get that release from him and expect nothing more. Some women will get that from friends who have similar issues, by spending time talking and expressing themselves.
> 
> It isn't fun to feel like you aren't worth the effort to be heard. It crushes your self-worth and makes you feel like a tool to be used when convenient.
> 
> Sucks.......


Actually I never thought that men being too emotional can be a turn-off. I've always been the emotional one longing for my husband to connect deeper emotionally. He is not the expressive type and I came to understand that. But I feel a lack of emotional intimacy that affected my desire to get physical intimacy with him. I just can't do things with him when I feel a disconnect.

I thought that our situation is a classic so a therapist can help, but ours simply dismissed the emotional issue. We're also told to simply attempt more physical intimacy but if it's so easy we wouldn't need a therapist.


----------



## FeministInPink

the COUNSELOR dismissed and joked about your feelings? 

That is NOT right. Ditch this counselor and find another. This "joker" doesn't know what he's doing. 

The only potential explanation is that he's trying to win over your husband, so your husband will be more receptive to therapy. Was your husband difficult or reticent about going to see a counselor?


----------



## 2ntnuf

msrv23 said:


> Actually I never thought that men being too emotional can be a turn-off. I've always been the emotional one longing for my husband to connect deeper emotionally. He is not the expressive type and I came to understand that. But I feel a lack of emotional intimacy that affected my desire to get physical intimacy with him. I just can't do things with him when I feel a disconnect.
> 
> I thought that our situation is a classic so a therapist can help, but ours simply dismissed the emotional issue. We're also told to simply attempt more physical intimacy but if it's so easy we wouldn't need a therapist.


Well, then you must be one of few. Most seem to say they want that until they get it all the time. Then, it's, "where's my libido? I know I left it here somewhere....". 

Listen, whatever works for you guys is what is right. There isn't any one way or anything like that. You just have to both be willing to work on it without falling apart as a couple. 

Sorry, I wasn't being a smartie pants. I'm serious. My ex2 did not like that, after a while. She needed something else, which I could not provide. I never tried to trick her. I can't be someone I'm not. 

I needed to talk and connect on a deeper level. It's just how I am. I don't know why. It just is.


----------



## chillymorn69

Emotional closeness is difficult for alot of guys.

I don't even know what that means. 

Most guys think if I bring home the bacon tell her shes pretty and pinch her ass everything should be great.

I love you. I give all my earning to my family what else do I need to do. I commited to being with you.


Oh I get it you want verbal reasurance of my undieing love everyday. 

Do I get a blow job every day?


Why can't there be middle ground.

How about a blow job every other day ?


Lol, 

I'm in a goofy mood tonight.


Try understanding he just might not be very good at emotional clossness. And being patience with him might go a long way.

Please explain emotional closeness.


----------



## Laurentium

msrv23 said:


> Basically the problem between me and my husband is a typical one. I feel a lack of emotional bond and intimacy, tried to talk things out for years without success (I might have failed to explain well enough and he might have failed to listen properly), and gradually distanced. So as time passed, we became physically distant too.
> 
> The problem is that without emotional intimacy I can't feel comfortable with physical intimacy. My husband might not understand it and I might not know how to explain it, so we looked for a counselor to help us communicate better.
> 
> Unfortunately things didn't go well as our counselor only told us to try more physical contacts. Our counselor also dismissed and even joked with my feelings.
> After thinking about it, we decided to try another counselor.


That sounds awful. I'm speaking as a marriage counselor, rather than as a client, and I'd have to say, that sounds like a not unusual problem. I hope you had or will have better results with another counselor. Most counselors that specialise in marriage/couple work will know how to work with this.


----------



## msrv23

FeministInPink said:


> the COUNSELOR dismissed and joked about your feelings?
> 
> That is NOT right. Ditch this counselor and find another. This "joker" doesn't know what he's doing.
> 
> The only potential explanation is that he's trying to win over your husband, so your husband will be more receptive to therapy. Was your husband difficult or reticent about going to see a counselor?


At first I didn't notice it and dismissed the joke, while the last sessions left me feeling unproductive and uneasy. But then I thought about it and realised that the counselor indeed did that about my feelings. Even my husband agreed that what was said was not nice and the last sessions were indeed less productive.

My husband seemed receptive to therapy, I suspect that the counselor started to have some bias about me so things became gradually dismissive from about my side. I'd share about it here but it's a long long story and currently I don't feel comfortable sharing the details.

But we both agreed to find another counselor as this one is not working anymore.


----------



## msrv23

chillymorn69 said:


> Emotional closeness is difficult for alot of guys.
> 
> I don't even know what that means.
> 
> Most guys think if I bring home the bacon tell her shes pretty and pinch her ass everything should be great.
> 
> I love you. I give all my earning to my family what else do I need to do. I commited to being with you.
> 
> 
> Oh I get it you want verbal reasurance of my undieing love everyday.
> 
> Do I get a blow job every day?
> 
> 
> Why can't there be middle ground.
> 
> How about a blow job every other day ?
> 
> 
> Lol,
> 
> I'm in a goofy mood tonight.
> 
> 
> Try understanding he just might not be very good at emotional clossness. And being patience with him might go a long way.
> 
> Please explain emotional closeness.


He is the type of guy who is simple and not expressive with emotions. I came to learn how he shows his love in other ways.

Emotional closeness is indeed hard to explain and abstract. I'd say that in my case it would be feeling supported and that he cared to understand about my feelings.


----------



## msrv23

Laurentium said:


> That sounds awful. I'm speaking as a marriage counselor, rather than as a client, and I'd have to say, that sounds like a not unusual problem. I hope you had or will have better results with another counselor. Most counselors that specialise in marriage/couple work will know how to work with this.


Thank you, reading this gets me more hope. I do feel that our problem is common and hopefully the other counselor will be able to help us better.


----------



## msrv23

After going to another counselor me and my husband talked about the previous one and I’ve found out that he also felt some things weren’t right. I thought it was just me but he actually noticed some problems too and didn’t feel that the previous one was ideal.
The new one is much better. The new counselor was better at getting what we tried to say and also reache for each of us more empathetically.
It’s strange and surprising how much difference a better counselor can actually be.


----------



## FeministInPink

msrv23 said:


> After going to another counselor me and my husband talked about the previous one and I’ve found out that he also felt some things weren’t right. I thought it was just me but he actually noticed some problems too and didn’t feel that the previous one was ideal.
> The new one is much better. The new counselor was better at getting what we tried to say and also reache for each of us more empathetically.
> It’s strange and surprising how much difference a better counselor can actually be.


It's good to hear that you and your husband are on the same page regarding the counselor. I think it indicates that you are both on the same page in regards to improving your marriage.


----------



## BioFury

msrv23 said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here and I check the forum from time to time. I would like to ask if anyone has been in counseling for the same problem and how it went?
> 
> Basically the problem between me and my husband is a typical one. I feel a lack of emotional bond and intimacy, tried to talk things out for years without success (I might have failed to explain well enough and he might have failed to listen properly), and gradually distanced. So as time passed, we became physically distant too.
> 
> The problem is that without emotional intimacy I can't feel comfortable with physical intimacy. My husband might not understand it and I might not know how to explain it, so we looked for a counselor to help us communicate better.
> 
> Unfortunately things didn't go well as our counselor only told us to try more physical contacts. Our counselor also dismissed and even joked with my feelings.
> After thinking about it, we decided to try another counselor.
> 
> If you have been in similar problem, and went to a counselor, what did they advise to do? Did it go well? Thank you.


I'd recommend you purchase the book "His Needs, Her Needs", and both of you read it. It addresses this particular issue, and will help you implement a solution. Link below.


----------



## sokillme

msrv23 said:


> Actually I never thought that men being too emotional can be a turn-off. I've always been the emotional one longing for my husband to connect deeper emotionally. He is not the expressive type and I came to understand that. But I feel a lack of emotional intimacy that affected my desire to get physical intimacy with him. I just can't do things with him when I feel a disconnect.
> 
> I thought that our situation is a classic so a therapist can help, but ours simply dismissed the emotional issue. We're also told to simply attempt more physical intimacy but if it's so easy we wouldn't need a therapist.


GD this stuff is hard sometimes. :frown2:


----------



## sokillme

In my experience is it's not so much emotional closeness as much as showing that you are emotionally close. Meaning you are connecting emotionally. It doesn't always have to be long talks. It's when she tells you about the thing that is happening at work and getting her down, you write her a little note or leave a message on her phone to say, "Hey I know you are in for a tough day today, know that I am thinking about you and I appreciate that you are working so hard for us." 

When she spends Saturday cleaning the house and dealing with the kids, even if you helped as you should. Now it's time to cook dinner. You tell her not to bother and order a pizza. Tell her you appreciate how hard she works and you would rather just spend the rest of the night with her. 

It's noticing if she is down or happy and finding out why. 

Again you have to be attuned to her. Becoming an emotional provider. 

Yes it's true its not in our nature but we can do it. It's not hard to do it once you learn to be thoughtful and attentive. And I will admit when I do it I am many times working from and intellectual idea of how I think she must be feeling even though I would not feel those feelings the same way. Frankly the willingness to try is enough. You will learn as you do. 

By the way @chillymorn69 post is accurate and sums up the difference well IMO. Sex is a pretty good way to do the same thing for most men. We are totally different. I don't want or need my wife to provide for me emotionally at least not as much as I do for her. I don't feel emotions as intently or even as complex as she does. However sex does this for most of us men. It makes us feel close to our wives. I need to have sex to feel emotionally close to her. Her willingness to enthusiastically give that part of herself to me makes me feel connected to her and special, important. 

I think we are very different in how we get there but what we want is the same thing.


----------



## msrv23

sokillme said:


> In my experience is it's not so much emotional closeness as much as showing that you are emotionally close. Meaning you are connecting emotionally. It doesn't always have to be long talks. It's when she tells you about the thing that is happening at work and getting her down, you write her a little note or leave a message on her phone to say, "Hey I know you are in for a tough day today, know that I am thinking about you and I appreciate that you are working so hard for us."
> 
> When she spends Saturday cleaning the house and dealing with the kids, even if you helped as you should. Now it's time to cook dinner. You tell her not to bother and order a pizza. Tell her you appreciate how hard she works and you would rather just spend the rest of the night with her.
> 
> It's noticing if she is down or happy and finding out why.
> 
> Again you have to be attuned to her. Becoming an emotional provider.
> 
> Yes it's true its not in our nature but we can do it. It's not hard to do it once you learn to be thoughtful and attentive. And I will admit when I do it I am many times working from and intellectual idea of how I think she must be feeling even though I would not feel those feelings the same way. Frankly the willingness to try is enough. You will learn as you do.
> 
> By the way @chillymorn69 post is accurate and sums up the difference well IMO. Sex is a pretty good way to do the same thing for most men. We are totally different. I don't want or need my wife to provide for me emotionally at least not as much as I do for her. I don't feel emotions as intently or even as complex as she does. However sex does this for most of us men. It makes us feel close to our wives. I need to have sex to feel emotionally close to her. Her willingness to enthusiastically give that part of herself to me makes me feel connected to her and special, important.
> 
> I think we are very different in how we get there but what we want is the same thing.


That sounds great, I wish that my husband can understand this. He doesn’t have to feel my pain but dismissing sucks. For example when our child was born I’ve told him how overwhelmed I felt, but he dismissed it and asked how can I be when I do have some help from relatives. He tends to dismiss my feelings when he can’t see the logic or agree to the reasons behind. I’ve told him that empathizing doesn’t mean agreeing, for example I often offer emotional support when he complained about his work even if I disagreed how he handled things which were the reason that led him to the bad situation he was in the first place. Even if I disagreed with his actions and solutions I could still acknowledge thst it was hard for him and that he needed some support, but he can’t understand this.

So over the years I became more and more emotionally alone and disconnected because there is no safe port for me to go to.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I think it's great you finally talked with your husband about the counselor.


----------



## sokillme

I agree counseling can help. Your husband is not very different then lots of men. Many of us are not taught this. We are told to man up or worse thought by both our fathers and mothers that we are just too emotionally deficient to train to have good emotional communication skills. 

It's sexist actually, and both men and women do it. They assume women are naturally emotionally capable and don't need training and many are not and therefor have terrible relational problems. And they assume men are not capable of any kind of emotional maturity and therefor this is not even addressed. I was taught this from a very young age. I was told every once and a while that I needed to talk with my wife. When I was sullen and didn't want to talk, my Mom would say you can do this now but your wife is going to want to talk to you. You are going to need to talk, and listen. Guess my Mom didn't want me to be like the Men she married. It was one of the best things she ever did for me. It also has helped me immensely in my career. These skills translate to friendships and people skills that I use in my work situations all the time. 

Unfortunately your husband has never been given the tools to communicate with you emotionally or to help him empathize with you. In a way coming to understand this may help you forgive him and give you some peace. It's not that he doesn't want to, he doesn't even understand. It's not something he has any experience with. It would be like you trying to fix his transmission (assuming you are not a car person). This is where the counseling can help they can give him directions. Sounds like he wants to try that is very good.

I would also say to you that what I said about men is true. If he does do this the way for you to help him to feel emotionally close to you is most likely sex. It really is the submission that does it in my mind. The giving of yourself enthusiastically makes us feel close to our wives, it makes us protective and treasure them. I know you are not their yet, but keep it in the back of your mind.  It works like a pinwheel firecracker. He connects emotionally, that helps you connect physically, which leads to him connecting emotionally. Soon you are spinning in a successful intimate marriage. 

I don't know if there are any books for helping a man connect emotionally with his wife but I would look for them if I were you. Next time he complains about the lack of sex give it to him.


----------



## msrv23

sokillme said:


> I agree counseling can help. Your husband is not very different then lots of men. Many of us are not taught this. We are told to man up or worse thought by both our fathers and mothers that we are just too emotionally deficient to train to have good emotional communication skills.
> 
> It's sexist actually, and both men and women do it. They assume women are naturally emotionally capable and don't need training and many are not and therefor have terrible relational problems. And they assume men are not capable of any kind of emotional maturity and therefor this is not even addressed. I was taught this from a very young age. I was told every once and a while that I needed to talk with my wife. When I was sullen and didn't want to talk, my Mom would say you can do this now but your wife is going to want to talk to you. You are going to need to talk, and listen. Guess my Mom didn't want me to be like the Men she married. It was one of the best things she ever did for me. It also has helped me immensely in my career. These skills translate to friendships and people skills that I use in my work situations all the time.
> 
> Unfortunately your husband has never been given the tools to communicate with you emotionally or to help him empathize with you. In a way coming to understand this may help you forgive him and give you some peace. It's not that he doesn't want to, he doesn't even understand. It's not something he has any experience with. It would be like you trying to fix his transmission (assuming you are not a car person). This is where the counseling can help they can give him directions. Sounds like he wants to try that is very good.
> 
> I would also say to you that what I said about men is true. If he does do this the way for you to help him to feel emotionally close to you is most likely sex. It really is the submission that does it in my mind. The giving of yourself enthusiastically makes us feel close to our wives, it makes us protective and treasure them. I know you are not their yet, but keep it in the back of your mind.  It works like a pinwheel firecracker. He connects emotionally, that helps you connect physically, which leads to him connecting emotionally. Soon you are spinning in a successful intimate marriage.
> 
> I don't know if there are any books for helping a man connect emotionally with his wife but I would look for them if I were you. Next time he complains about the lack of sex give it to him.


Yes, this rings true. The problem is that he is not in tune with emotions and empathy and I also believe that men being culturally taught to disregard even their own emotions is the problem.

He does care for me a lot and there has been improvements, although every time an episode happens it just hurts so deep that I feel that I can’t keep on going. I also love him, but I feel so alone in the relationship.
I’ve been trying to acknowledge his efforts, be grateful, but I feel that it’s so hard to hang on. I feel that I’m slowly disconnecting.

So I really hope that this time the counselor can help us connect. Each session has been draining and painful because I relive all those feelings I’ve tried to hide. Then I realised recently that he has been passive-aggressive about many things. He actually agreed with me on many things just to avoid conflicts, then suddenly I saw this resentment in the sessions that I never expected. This too affcted my feelings but I’m trying to hang on.

Relationships are just so complex sometimes. I wish that it could be simple. We love each other, yet our baggages and needs are so complex.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Our baggage is only hard on others when we lean on them with it. Otherwise, it's ours and no one knows how we feel. It's our own responsibility to work on it. We should be very grateful when someone simply listens without even commenting. 

You can't get past something, unless you don't care if you heal anything. You have to work through it. It is very difficult. 

It's very difficult to find someone who loves us for who we are, without wanting to change us into the person they think will make them happy. It's our responsibility to make ourselves happy. 

When verbal communication is lacking, there is great difficulty growing an ember of love into a blazing fire. 

Someone must open up first, every time a conversation is started. The other must be compassionate, understanding, and open themselves to receiving what is being offered. 

Gratitude is very important. It breeds compassion. Compassion breeds compromise. Compromise breeds trust. Trust breeds stronger love. 

Your counselor will feed off of your enthusiasm or lack thereof. You will be guided toward whatever goal is perceived. 

If you don't know what you want, none of that will happen. You must decide what you want, then go after it with all your might. If it doesn't work, then you can walk away with your head held high.


----------



## inlimbo75

After 9 years of marriage and 12 together we have 2 kids. While things never were quite the bliss it was pre kids, things were still good. Infidelity was one thing that I NEVER would have considered. Everything changed when we went to our oldest kid's first cub scout meeting. Wife almost fell over and seemed extremely shocked to see that the den mom's husband was a 'friend of a friend' from way back in the day and they sometimes hung with the same crowd. She left her purse there and he came to the house to give it back to her. About 2-3 months later I noticed a lot of texting and she was different. Her phone code was locked and I saw it on day. I opened it up when I had the chance and looked at the text sting of her best friend (the truth always lies with the bestie). This guy was referred to in their string as asking for pictures and sexting. He also was referred to as an old boyfriend. Now, he is honestly a really ugly guy. About 6'4 and 370. Wore a tank top to the meeting and was hairy all over. Just gross and the last person I ever would have perceived as a threat. Went into that text sting between them and saw nude pics of my wife and lots of sexual talk (there was references about not yet having sex). 

Went to a councelor and she was beyond brutal. My guy was she was going to be a man hater and boy was I right. She'd ask me a question but wouldn't let me answer. Was rude as hell. Then, spent time telling me that I am responsible for my wife running into this guy by chance and deciding to see what she could get out of it 18 years later behind my back. Wife was also a CSA victim and she refused to explore that. Even my wife thought she was so brutal she supported us finding someone else. The 2nd one was better but had this thing that anything that came out of your mouth (whether that be a lie or revisionist history) was 'valid.' Both were utter crap. Therapists in this line of infidelity work need to customize their approach and I think there is too much focus on cookie cutter approaches. Plus, the woman so they don't get offended and refuse future services are let off the hook too often. For sure in my case. I am sure there are a select few that know how to approach this but most are crap and it should be a felony they take money from you.


----------



## msrv23

It’s been some time and after more sessions, we concluded that the second therapist also couldn’t help. The second one could understand our sides empathetically but didn’t dig deep nor offered much helpful advice.

Frustrated, I have found a book that was actually spot on and accurate about us. “How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It” was spot on about his shame and my fears and how we mess up. It also focused on compassion and empathy, helping each of us understand the other side.

We can’t understand how a book at the price of 1/3 of a session is much more useful and informative. We got the audiobook version to make it easier to read.

I don’t know if we were unlucky but we wasted so much money on therapy and it was really frustrating. But at least I’m glad to have found the book. Even so it’s not easy to implement the lessons specially when we are both going through a very difficult phase.


----------



## NextTimeAround

FeministInPink said:


> the COUNSELOR dismissed and joked about your feelings?
> 
> That is NOT right. Ditch this counselor and find another. This "joker" doesn't know what he's doing.
> 
> The only potential explanation is that he's trying to win over your husband, so your husband will be more receptive to therapy. Was your husband difficult or reticent about going to see a counselor?


yeah, who are these people who think that they can laugh at you and take your money at the same time. Maybe they graduated from Comedy Central or Second City and not some proper university.


----------

