# Crashing and burning after one year.



## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

I'm going to try and keep this as short and succinct as I can because looking around, I can see that some of these "getting my thoughts out" threads can explode in to heavy confessionals. (Good opening paragraph, but didn't keep to that promise...)

*Too Long Didn't Read Version*
- Married my first love after being together for eight years.
- Sex life not great. Living together proving difficult.
- Shortly after our first year, I cheated with someone who just felt right despite initially telling myself I could keep our interactions platonic.
- All the "bad stuff" I buried for the sake of my relationship over the years, the sacrifices and compromises have risen to the surface and turned ugly.
- I feel it's over and I need to grow alone. Feel I married for wife's sake not mine.
- Going into marriage counselling (delaying the inevitable) this week. Largely just hoping to mediate a situation where I keep the house or at least don't end up living with my parents again.

*Background*
- I'm 27, my wife is 26.
- I met he almost nine years ago at the beach through a mutual friend.
-We spent a few months just as friends, and when a very brief relationship I had going on broke up she offered to take me out to the cinema to brighten my spirits. It turned out well, as we agreed the following morning it was more of a date and so something started.
- We were each other's first love. First proper kiss (my previous relationship was a bust in that department, she was terrible and I was only trying something with her to shake off the being alone-ness that dominated my early teens). First physical love.
- After one year together, we went to different universities 300 miles apart. We endured the hardships of long distance for three years through our shared determination/stubborness.
- Upon graduating, I turned down a job where I was to come back home and hopefully build something with her. Turned out the job market in my chosen field was slimmer pickings back home, and her being a mummy's girl meant she wasn't willing to move away with me.
- This led to me having a major period of depression which she ultimately helped me out of. At the end of it - and this may be where the problem started - I proposed. Because I felt I owed her. I was very fond of her and my probably still broken brain thought this was the woman who could support me for the rest of my life. Because, what, I can't support myself? After six years together (albeit a lot of time physically apart) it felt logical at the time. Logical, but not emotionally justified?

*The Union*
- Post-proposal, we bought our first house together. A combination of my savings and her good job worked out a good combination. Moving in together provided its own challenges, of course. 
- When she said she wanted a garden, I provided. We laid a new lawn, setup borders. It looked good. She then lost interest in its maintenance and it fell to me. I'd have rather concreted over the whole thing for parking.
- She constantly harps on about how we should work as a team. So, the household chores are split between us. Despite the fact they're largely falling on me, she still can't do the simplest things. 
- Example? I load the laundry and hang it on a Monday, so she can iron it on a Tuesday evening while I work late. Does she do it? No. I get in at 10pm and there's the laundry still hanging on the clothes horse for me to do on Wednesday.
- Bathroom needs cleaning every fortnight. This is the one thing I haven't wavered on because it is the smallest room in the house, while my weekly tasks include pretty much every other room. Typically, the bathroom only gets cleaned by her when the ****roaches protest.
- My job means I am mostly the one to cook meals in an evening. When I ask "What do you want tonight?" I get the same apathetic "Whatever" which gives me no inspiration and no assistance.
- The sex is barely existent. She's always been protesting she's shy, that it feels weird. No oral. Barely ever anything manual. I always initiate and it's always lacking in passion. Anytime I said anything, she'd just pull her sad puppy eyes and I'd say it doesn't matter. 
- But I keep it all nicely bottled up, because who else could possibly want me? I'm not particularly good looking, not physically impressive and a massive nerd. Few girls go for that, she did. Part of me thinks the "Who else would have me?" attitude was her reason for marrying, but she has insisted in recent weeks otherwise.

*The Trigger*
- So, a few weeks ago a girl who had just resigned from work to something new starts showing an interest in me. We have a scary amount in common. She's practically my twin, as messed up and weird as me. And we start texting. A lot. A colleague says we're clearly both smitten, but I laugh it off. I've got my wife, and we'd only just had our first anniversary.
- But we end up on a night out alone together. We play a few games at the arcade, we have a drink and talk for hours. We go to a restaurant and talk for longer. And then we admit it, we're feeling something. One thing leads to another and we end up having a very enjoyable make out and fumble in my car. And we gel on that level as well. It's smooth, effortless, comfortable, despite the confines. Neither of us had ever done such a thing before.
- Wife finds out, the next day. You can't exactly get in at 5am on a Sunday morning and have her not be suspicious enough to go through your texts. And she did. And we hadn't been subtle, and I should've had a stronger password than my wife's name.
- So I do the only thing I really know how to do. I panic. And lie. I do what's right for everyone else, ignoring what could be right for me. I say it was a one off, it meant nothing, I can end it and we can fix us.
- So that's what I try and do the next day. Although as far as my wife was concerned I ended it the previous night by text that's something I can never do. And, christ, it hurts to let this wonderful other woman out of my life. She encourages me to do the right thing, to delete her entirely as I literally never have to see her again. And I do it. And it hurts. And I crash into the lowest point of my life in a long time.
- And my wife makes excuses for me. Diminished responsibility, I was feeling low about work and her not being around so much. And I play that as the card that keeps me sane: I went crazy.
- I even tried to use that as the justification to her when we parted. That my wife had seen me at my worst and accepted it. That this girl had fallen for an idea of me, when that's probably the me I want to be. And could be, if I didn't keep clinging to the need for a mother figure to get me through life.

*The Fallout*
- So I embrace the misery, I resign myself to my bed in a world of self pity, longing for what could've been. And wife stays supportive for a time. And then she gets bored with it. I'm abandoning her emotionally, we can get past all this. I made my decision. I hate to say it, sweetheart, but I made my decision the moment I kissed that girl and I've been trying to fool myself into thinking otherwise.
- So the animosity grows, tensions heighten and we grow more distant.
- And then, last night, she pulls the biggy:
"Do you know how much I have compromised for you?" she shouts in the latest flare up.
"Probably not as much as I have for you." I retort.
"I ironed your pants!" she protests.
"That's the best you've got? I made countless trips to you at University, you made a handful in return. I turned down a perfectly good job to come back home and build a life with you. I have been patient and understanding in the bedroom. I have compromised on living five minutes away from your mother. I have become house husband and chief cook to keep you happy. And the best you have, which by the way I backed down on eventually, is that you had to iron my pants?"

There's been tears, there's been fights. I know I didn't crash and fall into this girl's arms for comfort. But neither of us is willing to move out. "This is my house, I've done nothing wrong" she says. "This is my house, and half your stuff is at your mother's anyway," I bite back. It's a painful circle I want out of, but I can't pull the trigger.

So now we're going a marriage counsellor on Wednesday, in an act I'm calling in my own mind now "delaying the inevitable". I've kept too much buried over the last few years, married for her not for me and the **** has hit the fan at maximum velocity.

I went to my dad with this issue, and that just messed my head up even more as he said he "settled" with the first woman that came his way. He had one objective, to procreate and continue the family name/line and that just made me feel even more worthless. And I don't want kids. Always been somewhat hesistant, but like with everything else I went along with what my wife wanted, because "Happy wife, happy life."

Any and all comments wanted. Short and concise, huh?


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## familygirl (Dec 13, 2013)

-This new girl is a flash in the pan. A spark that happens when new relationships begin. You know nothing about this girl and the feeling between you and her more than likely wont last.
You wife has stayed with you through your depression and supporting you after your fling-that speaks volumes. If your wife doesnta share the chores maybe she is a little depressed - you could return the favour by helping her.
I think counselling is a good idea for you both. It will get you both talking and close agian.
Good luck


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## Sunburn (Jul 9, 2012)

Your story is predominately why I have always told my daughters to wait until they (and their boyfriends) are at least 30 until they marry. It doesn't guarantee anything but by then your experiences have taught you a lot about who you are and are more capable of choosing someone more compatible.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

familygirl said:


> -This new girl is a flash in the pan. A spark that happens when new relationships begin. You know nothing about this girl and the feeling between you and her more than likely wont last.


We worked together for a year, and in retail, you work with a lot of girls and think nothing of it. It was only within two weeks of actually properly talking to each other we realised our paths had crossed many times in the past, but the slight age difference of a few years meant we didn't realise.

I've tried logic-king myself out of it with the same idea that it's fireworks, and fireworks fade, but there's part of me that thinks our similarities are what's missing between me and my wife.



> You wife has stayed with you through your depression and supporting you after your fling-that speaks volumes. If your wife doesnta share the chores maybe she is a little depressed - you could return the favour by helping her.


Sadly, it isn't depression as far as I can see, she just flat out can't be bothered (she's said as much). Especially when Muggins here will do it.



> I think counselling is a good idea for you both. It will get you both talking and close agian.Good luck


I'm not holding my breath for a golden reunion. It just feels like something broke inside of me and now I can't even look at her, and I tense up involuntarily when she tries to touch me. But thanks for the sentiment.



Sunburn said:


> Your story is predominately why I have always told my daughters to wait until they (and their boyfriends) are at least 30 until they marry. It doesn't guarantee anything but by then your experiences have taught you a lot about who you are and are more capable of choosing someone more compatible.


I'd always wondered what the "Don't get married until you're 30" rule was about, with so many of my friends of the same age doing it but now I can clearly see why. I think both my wife and I have relied too much on the idea that first love should be the only love that matters (we were using words like "forever" within months, but long before we'd even worked out the physical stuff). I fear it was too much, too young and now it's all unravelling.

My wife continues to insist I'm all she's ever wanted, even now when I'm saying no to kids, after she spent so long saying it was all she wanted. One of us has to make a sacrifice, and I'm not sure it should be her. Like I should let her go and find that someone who can give her the nuclear family she always wanted.

Was out with a friend the other night who is getting married in five weeks, he's in much the same situation as me: first and only, almost 10 years together. I told him he still had time to run, he said "It's no use, she'd only find me." :rofl: But on a serious side, it did make me wonder why men get married and if it is just for the woman's sake.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Terrafirma, I think its a good sign that you're feeling bad. It indicates to me that you have a conscience, and that you feel bad for hurting someone who loves you.

I think part of your pain is also a fear that you may be moving down a path in life that you really don't want to be on, and you're looking for a way to get onto a different path.

You're going to have to make some tough choices.

I do have some suggestions, though.

Take some time and REALLY think about what you want in life.

Do you REALLY love your wife? Do you REALLY want to have kids with her? Are you prepared to spend YEARS repairing the damage you have done to the relationship by having sex with another woman?

These are questions you need to consider long and hard.

If you decide that you want to stay, I recommend that you tell your wife the whole truth. Then go get counseling and learn about setting boundaries and avoiding putting yourself in positions where you are fogging up the car windows with strange women. Pray every night that your wife truly forgives you for what you have done.

If you decide that you want to leave, then don't screw around. File for divorce, and give your stbxw a chance to find someone who really does love her the way she deserves to be loved. Give yourself the chance to find someone YOU love, so much that you don't go and have sex with other women.

Your choice.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You have a choice here:

1) Tell your wife that you will not live like this. She has to go to MC with you and work on making changes to fix your marriage. When you talk to her do not blame her. You are both responsible for the state of your marriage. This is something that you both did wrong and something that you both need to fix. If you do this, take a reality check every 3 months. If things have not significantly changed for the better, go to #2.

2) File for divorce and move on.

#1 might still lead to #2. But at least you tried.

If you do #1, also get the books "HIs Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters". Read them with your wife and the two of you do the work the books suggest.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

terrafirma said:


> I'm going to try and keep this as short and succinct as I can because looking around, I can see that some of these "getting my thoughts out" threads can explode in to heavy confessionals. (Good opening paragraph, but didn't keep to that promise...)


Okay, you wrote a lot, but the problems boil down to a couple of key issues. You are not a dominant masculine male and she calls the shots in the relationship. You're her b¡tch, cooking and cleaning. That right there is an attraction killer. Because of this or something else, maybe side guys while she was in college, _*she is no longer sexually attracted to you at all.*_ She is still with you for the same reason you're with her: a conscious, on your part, and an unconscious on her part, some odd sense of propriety and obligation.



terrafirma said:


> And I don't want kids.


Good grief.

Why in the hell would you marry if you don't want kids?

Your wife is using you as a gardener, cook, and housekeeper. If you ever have kids, you'll be her nanny. She makes more dough than you. You've broken the marriage contract and, unless she looks like Jaba the Hut, I'd bet some serious coin she has, too.

End it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

terrafirma said:


> I'd always wondered what the "Don't get married until you're 30" rule was about, with so many of my friends of the same age doing it but now I can clearly see why.


Can't say I've ever heard such a rule, but it's a moronic idea, viewed from either biological or psychological perspectives.



terrafirma said:


> But on a serious side, it did make me wonder why men get married and if it is just for the woman's sake.


With a name like "terrafirma," I got the idea you were from planet Earth, but if you've never wondered why men get married, you must be a newcomer.

Q: Why do men get married?
A: Men marry in order to get regular, exclusive sex from their wife(s) with the aim of producing legitimate offspring to whom they may pass on their genetic and financial patrimony.

Women provide the above to men in exchange for protection and the male's excess production of food, shelter, and other worldly goods.

Since you have no use for kids, marriage would be a sexual hindrance and a financial drain/risk for you.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Your wife is using you as a gardener, cook, and housekeeper. If you ever have kids, you'll be her nanny. She makes more dough than you. You've broken the marriage contract and, unless she looks like Jaba the Hut, I'd bet some serious coin she has, too.
> 
> End it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Ripper said:


>



Was it _really that bad_???

ETA: that's about the funniest thing I've seen in a long long time.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

The chick is just another in a long line of excuses for you to get out of the vows you've made.

Just man up and get out nice and clean and walk away.

And learn from this.

Lesson #1: mate selection counts for, like, 99%.

Lesson #2: have a backbone and stand up for what you want and what you intend to do about it.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

marduk said:


> The chick is just another in a long line of excuses for you to get out of the vows you've made.
> 
> Just man up and get out nice and clean and walk away.
> 
> ...


Um, this a thousand times over. You've already come to the conclusion that you chose the wrong mate. She's not going to turn into someone else anytime soon.

You don't have to wait until you're 30 to marry someone, that's utterly ridiculous, just don't think you have to marry the first horse out of the gate. I married at 25. He's not perfect but he's my life mate. My 'first love', sh*t, he was never going to pass muster for marriage, we were fine spending 5yrs fooling around but you don't just marry someone because they stayed with you for years, that's the most pathetic reason to marry someone I've ever heard. Marry for love, marry for money, marry for kids, even marry for someone to do your laundry for you before you marry someone because they've been standing in your vicinity for 8 years.

So now you've wasted your time, and hers, you need to own your mistake and fix it. Do what you have to do, you've made your decision.


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## Samantha86 (Apr 8, 2014)

This is going to be blunt, but you asked for any and all comments, so here goes. 

You are a cheater, and you are doing what cheaters do. Whether consciously or not, you are trying to justify your behavior with this other woman by rewriting the history of your marriage. I don't believe for one second that you married your wife out of a sense of obligation and nothing else. Once upon a time, you felt the same way about your wife as you do about this other woman, and over time your initial infatuation with your wife evolved into love. 

Could you have fallen out of love with your wife due to her behavior toward you? Sure. But I think it's very telling that you only came to post your story after you cheated. You are suffering from the contrast effect. The other woman is new and exciting. It is difficult for your wife, faults or not, to compete with that, and it isn't fair to her. 

If you want to give your marriage a sincere try, then I think marriage counseling could actually do some good. But if you're really just delaying the inevitable, then I think you need to be a man and tell your wife. It is terribly misleading to string someone along like that for an indefinite period of time.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

My grandfather believed in the 30 year rule but that was 1909, when there were no reliable contraceptives, and he took the view a man should be financially set before starting a family.

My mother was born 12 month after they got married.

Times change.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tryingtobebetter said:


> My grandfather believed in the 30 year rule but that was 1909, when there were no reliable contraceptives, and he took the view a man should be financially set before starting a family.
> 
> My mother was born 12 month after they got married.
> 
> Times change.


Biology doesn't. How old was your grandmother? I'd bet she was younger than 30.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

When you say support you the rest of your life.. what type?

Fond? Thats all you can say about your wife is that you were very fond of her?? Are you saying that through todays lens of post cheating or are you truly saying it was like a getting new pair of socks....

Sorry.. not buying that.. this screams minimization to me and justification. You dont devote eight years to someone you are just fond of. 

I think you are coming here to gain approval for leaving your wife to sooth your conscience. 

Classic cheater justification.. bad thing is, you tainted your own feelings for your wife by letting someone else in.

Now, do I think some things should be shifted around in your home life, sure, but choosing an affair was a poor coping strategy. One, as you are going to find out was destructive to your wife...

Question for you... Why would you want a woman who knew you were married ... You want a homewrecker over your wife? Know that you are in a deep fog right now, give yourself time to sort out the fog, but be honest with your wife that that is what you are doing so you give her the choice to wait you out or go ahead and leave you. Did she know you didnt want kids when you married?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Trust me, you can buy another house. Your young. This is the best time to cut your losses and move on with your life. Oh, and don't get her pregnant whatever you do.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> Terrafirma, I think its a good sign that you're feeling bad. It indicates to me that you have a conscience, and that you feel bad for hurting someone who loves you.


I've always had a conscience, always put people first. I put myself first for the first time in a long time and dopey **** like this happens. As soon as it happened my reasons for staying with my wife were "Well, I can't hurt her. Her parents are gonna be pissed. My parents are gonna be disappointed. Heck knows what our friends will think."

Even when breaking it off with the other woman, I tried using those justifications and saying how I hoped I could turn those reasons into the right reasons. But the more I think about it, the more I think I fouled up by hooking up to the first ship in the harbour.



> Do you REALLY love your wife? Do you REALLY want to have kids with her? Are you prepared to spend YEARS repairing the damage you have done to the relationship by having sex with another woman?


1) Yes, but now probably not in the way she wants. 
2) No, she knew I was hesitant in the first place but could never see us without - I figured there may have been the slimmest chance I would change my mind. 
3) I don't know. I've genuinely been struggling to find the motivation to make it work over the last couple of weeks.



Machiavelli said:


> You've broken the marriage contract and, unless she looks like Jaba the Hut, I'd bet some serious coin she has, too.


That raised a smile. She's not an all-out uggo, but I'm no oil painting either. We'd probably put ourselves slap bang on the five line of a scale 1-10. Where I would put her now is best left unsaid, but since the wedding the pounds have gone and though she complains she needs to do something to lose it, she doesn't. But I still say all the right things (Does my bum look big in this? clické ahoy) and try and encourage her to lead a more active life. I'll go for a swim on a Saturday morning, she'll sleep till 11. And when I try and make any effort with a lighter meal or a veggie stir fry (which will do nothing for my weight gain issues with my overactive metabolism) it's viewed with disdain.



Samantha86 said:


> But I think it's very telling that you only came to post your story after you cheated. You are suffering from the contrast effect. The other woman is new and exciting. It is difficult for your wife, faults or not, to compete with that, and it isn't fair to her.


Like I say somewhere, buried in the wall of original text, I just spent a good deal of time burying the faults and acting like they don't matter. Talked them through with no-one until recently. I had a long discussion with a friend about it after the cheating, sure, but the conclusion we came up with was that the other woman was almost a catalyst for the issues to rear their head. And now I don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle.



Blossom Leigh said:


> When you say support you the rest of your life.. what type?


Emotional, mostly. But looking back I feel I've always been annoyed that I haven't been able to stand on my own two feet without a mothering figure on side. My Mum was always around for school trips in my younger years. My best friend in high school was a girl, an awful lot like my mother. And now I look at my wife and think "Oh, hell, it's true. You do marry your parents."



> Fond? Thats all you can say about your wife is that you were very fond of her?? Are you saying that through todays lens of post cheating or are you truly saying it was like a getting new pair of socks....


I fear the cracks had been showing for a while. For our anniversary I wrote a poem to go in the card, and it was very much a "Bish, bash, bosh, that'll do it" kind of job. I'm no Shakespeare, it just needed to follow the A-B-A-B rhyming pattern and sound sincere.

Hell, my wedding speech was largely inspired by reading others on the internet and copying and pasting and tweaking. Shouldn't that stuff come from the heart? I got a degree in writing and managed 2,500 words on some dire subjects on a regular basis. Couldn't manage the most important speech of my life without some "inspiration".



> Question for you... Why would you want a woman who knew you were married ... You want a homewrecker over your wife?


It's genuinely inexplicable. The whole of the first two weeks we were texting I told myself I wasn't seeing her "in that way", that all I wanted was a good friend who got all my quirks and foibles while my wife rolled her eyes. It escalated quickly on that one night out.

Ultimately, I want whatever is right for me but I seemingly have no clue what that is anymore. The woman who mothers me or the girl who excites. What I need vs what I want, probably.

But what I probably need is to stand on my own two feet for a while. Neither my wife, nor I have strayed from our comfort zones. She argues that we didn't choose the safe/lazy option, that this is 60 years of life together whatever happens. It's like it doesn't matter to her that I cheated, but it matters to me because I'm of the "Everything happens for a reason" brigade.

To quote the other woman, I "crushed her like a bug" within 48 hours of what happened. All I feel at the moment regret-wise is that I didn't get a chance to work out what I wanted. We didn't get time to explore the mysterious us. We could have had every chance of driving each other insane. Part of me really wanted to explore that.



WorkingOnMe said:


> Trust me, you can buy another house. Your young. This is the best time to cut your losses and move on with your life. Oh, and don't get her pregnant whatever you do.


It's how we settle the house we currently have. I don't want to surrender it having invested 16k in the deposit. I could just about buy her out, but I figure it'd be a sell and split the profits deal. (How obvious is it I have no clue how messy divorces get?)

And no chance on the getting pregnant front. With things as frosty as they are, that's way out of the running.

TLR version: I'm probably just a lousy man who deserves to be alone.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

terrafirma said:


> I've always had a conscience, always put people first. I put myself first for the first time in a long time and dopey **** like this happens. As soon as it happened my reasons for staying with my wife were "Well, I can't hurt her. Her parents are gonna be pissed....
> 
> Even when breaking it off with the other woman, I tried using those justifications...
> 
> ...


Man, this is just passive-agressive "Nice Guy" wah wah boo hoo BS.

Respectfully. Man up and stop with the "I'm the bad guy but it's not my fault and I don't know what I want" garbage and pull your head out of your ass and realize that if you don't you're just going to **** up the life of everyone around you if you don't.

Oh, and be 100% unhappy and out of control in your life.

I can say that because that was also ME.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

terrafirma said:


> I've always had a conscience, always put people first. I put myself first for the first time in a long time and dopey **** like this happens. As soon as it happened my reasons for staying with my wife were "Well, I can't hurt her. Her parents are gonna be pissed. My parents are gonna be disappointed. Heck knows what our friends will think."
> 
> Even when breaking it off with the other woman, I tried using those justifications and saying how I hoped I could turn those reasons into the right reasons. But the more I think about it, the more I think I fouled up by hooking up to the first ship in the harbour.
> 
> ...


Utter twaddle. I do not get the impression you always put others first. It is highly unlikely the affair was the first time you put yourself first, highly unlikely. It is more likely the culmination of a pattern do selfish behaviors.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Samantha86 said:


> This is going to be blunt, but you asked for any and all comments, so here goes.
> 
> You are a cheater, and you are doing what cheaters do. Whether consciously or not, you are trying to justify your behavior with this other woman by rewriting the history of your marriage. I don't believe for one second that you married your wife out of a sense of obligation and nothing else. Once upon a time, you felt the same way about your wife as you do about this other woman, and over time your initial infatuation with your wife evolved into love.
> 
> ...


:iagree: BEST POST HERE. 

You want out, so just get the hell out and be done.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Biology doesn't. How old was your grandmother? I'd bet she was younger than 30.


21, so yes.

My grandfather's rule only applied to men.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

What I am hearing is a maturity problem and truly you have two paths.. either learn to love your wife well and mature as a result OR run from that process and run down any woman who gives you a thrill... which could be a rougher road than what you have. Trust me.. intense relationships CAN be quite volatile, so you will not be clearing all your problems out by leaving your wife... you will simply exchange the set you have for a new set and that is not always a guarantee they are better.

ETA: Oh and one more thing... she doesn't do anything about her weight and you don't do anything about your cheatin' heart, so sounds like you can't take the splinter out of her eye until you get the plank out of your own... first...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would give you my blessing to walk away from this marriage under one condition: you never ever contact that other woman you hung out with.

That way, you don't do it by way of being a cheater. You do it by way of being in the wrong marriage, after which you go out and start looking again. Just not with THAT woman.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

tryingtobebetter said:


> 21, so yes.
> 
> My grandfather's rule only applied to men.


Especially in the 1800's and early 1900's, men generally were expected to be capable of supporting a family before marrying so usually between 30 and 40 they began looking for a bride. Usually the bride was 18 or 19. That didn't apply to everyone obviously but it did to many men.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Especially in the 1800's and early 1900's, men generally were expected to be capable of supporting a family before marrying so usually between 30 and 40 they began looking for a bride. Usually the bride was 18 or 19. That didn't apply to everyone obviously but it did to many men.


Interesting, never knew that....

Today. Many boys are kept boys too long mainly by their mothers who is enabled in her behavior by the father from my experience, such that even at 30 or 40 they still arent emotionally or financially mature.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Especially in the 1800's and early 1900's, men generally were expected to be capable of supporting a family before marrying so usually between 30 and 40 they began looking for a bride. Usually the bride was 18 or 19. That didn't apply to everyone obviously but it did to many men.


I'm not sure about this. Keep in mind in the 1800s and early 1900s average life lasted about 35-45 years.....


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

DoF said:


> I'm not sure about this. Keep in mind in the 1800s and early 1900s average life lasted about 35-45 years.....


that's the memory I have about it... kids were pushed out of the house young and expected to grow up and be responsible WAY earlier... thus many marriages were right out of school and lasted decades.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Life expectancy was not that bad in the past. If you made it to age 10 in the 1800's you could expect to live to almost 60.

Infant mortality skews numbers.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Sadly your wife is rugsweeping your affair which makes her appear needy & unattractive in your eyes as you re-write your relationship history. You are unconsciously adding those traits to your long list which includes not cleaning the bathroom as to why she is no longer a good wife.

Not only are you a cheater but you are not a good, loving, honest husband. Your wife deserves better. Do the right thing & file for divorce. Stop wasting her time ruminating about all of the things wrong with her.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Emerald said:


> Sadly your wife is rugsweeping your affair which makes her appear needy & unattractive in your eyes as you re-write your relationship history. You are unconsciously adding those traits to your long list which includes not cleaning the bathroom as to why she is no longer a good wife.
> 
> Not only are you a cheater but you are not a good, loving, honest husband. Your wife deserves better. Do the right thing & file for divorce. Stop wasting her time ruminating about all of the things wrong with her.


You know what Emerald.. thank you for posting these words... I myself needed to hear that this morning while in the middle of reconciliation as the BS.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

2cents:

you are leaving a wonderful woman who understands what love is for a passing passion fancy.

Always take the woman who understands what love is over the excitement of a sexual affair. They usually end in disaster.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> 2cents:
> 
> you are leaving a wonderful woman who understands what love is for a passing passion fancy.
> 
> Always take the woman who understands what love is over the excitement of a sexual affair. They usually end in disaster.


Totally agree... THIS cannot be overstated.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Sounds like you both are coasting through this marriage. All I pick up from your writing is a blah feeling like you are waiting for someone else to fix it and I bet you are getting the same thing from your wife.
The problem is that you both got married but you didnt COMMIT to each other.
Marriage isnt just the "hey..you'll do" pick and then everything is fine. It DOES require work and you will have some days that arent so swell.

Right now you have to man up and decide exactly what you want to do about it. You have to come to a concrete decision and follow through with it.
I've seen wishy-washy in action and its bad enough with one person, but when two do it...its a sure recipe for freakin disaster.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

Well, we had our first session of couple counselling last night. And just to add to the overwhelming feeling I have now that my life has descended into a tragic sit com the counselor was the same woman who officiated over our ceremony a year ago. I don't know what the odds are of that, especially since we went out of town for the counselling, but it seems I'm being swamped by crazy random happenstance at the moment.

Conclusion was, quite obviously and as literally everyone here has said, that I need to make a decision. All I feel is that I need time and space to think it all over, but life doesn't give you that. I certainly wouldn't get that moving back in with my parents, and as much as the urge to just cross country for a week or so is there, I have work commitments.

I am almost certain the decision is made, it's just a question of is it truly the right one for the right reasons and if so, why aren't I pulling the trigger right now? Wife insists that despite the affair and my general being-a-****-ishness, she does love me and she wants to make it work, but if it's over she wants me out, and out now.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

The counselor knows you wont do the work needed until you are all in. 

One thing you need to understand.... The fallout from this if you walk will be larger than you realize at this point. These decisions affect friends, family and future QUALITY girl friends. You will be labled "the guy who couldn't last a year in marriage." It is possible that a girl you are crazy about would choose to not marry you since you cannot be trusted, nor have intestinal fortitude and maturity for the long haul. Friends and family that supported you emotionally and financially in this first marriage won't be so quick to do so next time. And your mutual friends with your wife will pick sides and some of your favorite people will kick you to the curb and side with your wife having nothing to do with you. These are life altering decisions and if you dont choose well, your decision making ability will always come into question going forward. This fallout tends to be permanent. If you leave your wife for this other woman and it fails your pain of regret could be intense. Don't make this one flippantly... Get very wise counsel with your eye kept on the horizon, not on the lips puckered right next to you because lips come and go. But the devotion of a wife who will stand by your side even though you shredded her heart by deep betrayal doesn't.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can't just keep moving from one situation to another hoping to find something that makes you happy. YOU make you happy. Wherever you go, there you are; the unhappiness follows you.

Try finding another woman who will stand by you after what happened. You now have a 'label' and if people learn about it, you'll lose half the eligible women before you even start. And the ones who WILL take you are likely cheaters themselves. Grass ain't that green out there.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

But it isnt fair for her for him to stick around just because he may have problems finding women in the future. I say let him do her the favor of divorcing her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lol, you're right! terra, you can do better. Get the hell out of there!


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## whataquandry (Jun 2, 2014)

terrafirma said:


> Conclusion was, quite obviously and as literally everyone here has said, that* I need to make a decision*. All I feel is that I need time and space to think it all over, but life doesn't give you that. I certainly wouldn't get that moving back in with my parents, and as much as the urge to just cross country for a week or so is there, I have work commitments.
> 
> I am almost certain the decision is made, it's just a question of is it truly the right one for the right reasons and if so, *why aren't I pulling the trigger right now?* Wife insists that despite the affair and my general being-a-****-ishness, she does love me and she wants to make it work, but if it's over she wants me out, and out now.


I went through a similar thing earlier in my marriage and now much later I'm still married but in crisis. My decision was to stay then mainly due to guilt and not wanting to appear as a failure to friends and family. Looking back we probably should have ended it. I'm not suggesting you should end your marriage, however you really need to envision what your relationship may look like in the future. If it's not what you want then do both of yourselves a favor and end it now before life gets even more complicated.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> But it isnt fair for her for him to stick around just because he may have problems finding women in the future. I say let him do her the favor of divorcing her.


He has to make that choice with the full knowledge of fall out.

In other words, I agree he needs to make a good decision and for good reasons, but part of that consideration is that he is NOT going to come out of this unscathed and without a tarnished reputation. It will be a definite consequence of this decision. And he has to head into it knowing that's part of the choice he is making. It's just a heads up comment.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I just re-read your OP. Your wife sounds sexually submissive. Your sexlife sucked because you didn't take charge.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> But it isnt fair for her for him to stick around just because he may have problems finding women in the future. I say let him do her the favor of divorcing her.


I think this, more than anything, has been the problem from my side of the marriage, and indeed from even the earliest days of our relationship. My self-esteem issues have been longstanding, and certainly the "no-one else will put up with me" thought was in my mind when popping the question. Of course, I loved her but my motives for an everlasting commitment may not have been as simple as that.

It's the worst reasoning in the world, and I'm certainly paying the price for it now. I'm meant to be running through both my self-esteem issues and relationship troubles with a one-to-one counselor soon, but the British health service being what it is, that's a two to four week wait. And I don't have two to four weeks as it turns out. Wife has basically said I have to decide this weekend so she can move on. She loves me, but the hate is building the more I stick around being her lodger not her husband.

It seems mad to say that we rushed into marriage after seven years together, but maybe we did. A lot of that time had been spent apart. I proposed, then we went house hunting, and immediately after contracts were exchanged the wedding planning began. 

But I look back at our wedding photos and I'm sure it was genuinely the happiest day of my life. She was beautiful, the weather was amazing (perfect sunshine, perfect temperature, but only three days prior it had been grey and snowing), and some of my closest friends (most of which I had left behind when moving back from University) were there. In the whole build up of nearly 18 months, I was as cool as a cucumber. It was only in the last half hour or so as our guests started entering that maybe the cold feet set in ("Christ, this is actually happening"), but I carried on none the less. But a wedding is one thing, a marriage is a whole different ball game.

I genuinely can't believe we have hit this wall after only a year. It hurts, but it doesn't seem to be destroying me on the same level it is her. I don't know if it's the medication I'm back on, or I have genuinely gone dead inside but I can't shed a tear on this. And that's brutal. My mind is so fixated on what's wrong with her/us that I can't seem to pull back to thinking of what is right.

I think I may have to seek out a friend's sofa this weekend. But if I do that, that could be finally admitting defeat. Wife herself has said that when I leave, that's it. But she doesn't want me to stay and wait out whatever storm of mixed brain chemicals this may or may not be. Worst thing about mental health, it could all be in your head...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

You were close friends for seven years and you are now focused on everything wrong with her? Why? When did that start? And what triggered it? I'm hearing pain of regret coming on this one. I have a couple of pieces if advice.

1. Tell your wife this weekend is too soon. Ask her for the grace of at least two weeks or two counselor sessions. That time frame could be negotiable. I understand her stance very well. She is hurting and is rushing to end her pain. Understandable. If you ask for two weeks and she is gracious enough to grant it to you, DO NOT be a putz to her during that time compounding her pain. Treat her with dignity, respect, compassion. She gave you eight years of her life when she could have been with someone else who wouldn't betray her.

2. I'm revising this point because I got it a bit confused with another thread.... Affairs create the fog you are talking about. What happens if you are with the next girl and ANOTHER woman comes along more fantastic than the last and puts you right back in that fog again, are you leaving again? Serial cheating is real because there are amazing people everywhere and you could find yourself chasing the high instead of living a wonderful life with someone committed. Figure out where you are in the fog. Feels important to making an accurate decision on this one


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I get the no one else will love me Darlin' I had those feelings with my first husband. He was a hero firefighter who barely gave me time. And I didn't value myself enough, nor did I know how to ask for better from him. And if I had the skills I have now we could have possibly salvaged our 17 marriage and been one of those marriages that lasts 50 years. But when it hit the rocks my pain was gigantic since the unresolved pain was layered deep. Your esteem issues will follow you to the next relationship and the one after that unless they are resolved.

There are ways to proactively resolve painful areas by knowing how to navigate to aleviate it achieving marital longevity in the process.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Your quest to learn to stand up for yourself will happen regardless of who is by your side, you dont have to leave this one to get that. Humans are pretty adaptable and if its lessons learned over time as you go through each moment then assess, tweak, try again, its probable she will adjust to you. Not sure if you or her have the patience, maturity or emotional agility for that but its worth considering. If its outside of your current capacity you guys will feel like you are in survival mode and will do what it takes to end that pain. Just sorry yall are hurting and facing this decision at all. Hoping the best for both of you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ask her to wait until you can see the counselor; that you need help sorting out your head.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I also thought of a question to ask yourself....

If I leave I fear .....

If I don't leave I fear....

and why to each..

hope your soul searching gives you what you need.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

Wife finally brought her mum up to speed on most of the happenings in our marriage (leaving out the other woman part). Her mum told her that "He doesn't know when he's got it good," and she'd be welcome back to her old home at anytime. That seemed to calm her down somewhat when I got home from work. And her mum is probably right. Aside from my lack of feeling at the moment and the children issue, it's not like any of the faults are catastrophically bad they just feel it.

I spent most of yesterday at work wondering if I would be coming home to find my bags packed or on the front lawn. Part of me still wonders how much easier this all would have been if she'd made the decision in the first place. My knee jerk reaction to run back to my wife doesn't seem to have resolved anything.



Blossom Leigh said:


> I also thought of a question to ask yourself....
> 
> If I leave I fear .....
> 
> ...


Seems as good an exercise as any.

If I leave I fear... losing many friends, and someone who has truly been my best friend for all this time. I doubt we could ever rebuild that friendship. Moving back with my family and being stuck there for years, rather than weeks or months and their special brand of insanity I was so relieved to escape just setting me back. I fear that I won't be able to rebuild from the ground up, as I always seem to have graduated from one supporting mother figure to another. This time I have to go it alone, or the mothering figure is a therapist. I fear most of all that I won't actually meet anyone else. I still can't shake the feeling that the other woman (if I do even attempt to get back with her, probably not) wouldn't be a long term thing. She has some of my wife's best qualities exaggerated in a good way, but has also admitted to some of her worst.

If I don't leave I fear... the resentment of past decisions only ever growing. That in a few years time when my wife is pushing for children once again my view will not have changed. That even if we last 20-30-40 years, that childlessness will be her greatest regret and her ultimate sorrow. Or that we do have a child and I'm an absolutely godawful father.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Hmmm... Special brand of crazy... I bet you have an undiagnosed adrenaline addiction. Look up ACOA. Adult Children of alcoholics and see if that info resonates with you. The problem, the solution and laundry list.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Hmmm... Special brand of crazy... I bet you have an undiagnosed adrenaline addiction. Look up ACOA. Adult Children of alcoholics and see if that info resonates with you. The problem, the solution and laundry list.


Not entirely sure about that as some of my depression included anxiety and I really didn't enjoy the feeling of panic that came from the fight or flight adrenaline brought to certain situations.

Although a lot of things apply on that laundry list, I'm sure they could apply to anyone. Alcohol never came into it. My family's particular dysfunction stemmed largely from my sister's anorexia at 8, which involved a lot of shouting and screaming from her and my folks which probably did affect my 10-year-old self more than I let on. It probably has played a part in why I don't like the idea of children. My dad was also pretty rough at the whole parenting thing where shouting and the threat of a slipper was the order of the day with discipline. 

Their "special brand of crazy" (which was meant to be read in a tone that fails to carry over the internet) definitely isn't a good thing, and my sister still has issues even a decade and a half later that she refuses to properly address. I thought I'd go round and come clean to them about the state of our marriage, but all the reasons I moved out in the first place reared their head and I thought "Nope, this is definitely not on the table."

Managed to get through the weekend without a decision being made by either of us (it's like we're both too weak to pull the trigger, and wife herself has said that despite everything I could say "Jump" and she would still ask "How high?"). This week will be spent mostly avoiding each other through work and social commitments on both sides.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Acoa started including dysfunctional families since they are displying the same characteristics.

Adrenaline hits come from affairs for sure. Its one reason why its hard to let go of them and the repeat risk is high.

I bring it up for awareness going forward. "Boredom" could actually be seeking the adrenaline hit of an affair.

Just good to assess from all angles I guess is my approach for these thoughts..


Was the affair a narcissistic supply, was it seeking an adrenaline hit, was it seeking to soothe emotional pain.. those kinds of questions..

An affair is a poor choice as you know because of the destruction it causes...

these answers are needed to choose constructive means going forward no matter who you are with


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

It's still really hard to pin down the "Why" of the affair. Looking back it is mostly that I married as a way of thanking my wife for all she had done for me and I figured it was just a case of saying "I do" followed by "Yes dear" for the next 50-60 years as my dad suggested. Then this girl comes along and there's a connection I didn't feel with the slow burn of my wife. Even now we disagree on various things, but with the new girl it was like meeting my other self.

Did I get bored with married life? Probably. And almost certainly frustrated as the househusband role took hold and the always troubled sex life saw no signs of improvement. But I've had opportunities to deviate from the path in the past and largely resisted.

I was just blown away largely by how much in common this girl and I had. How in sync we were with likes, dislikes, how strange coincidences had happened in our lives. We just text back and forth and I was thinking of it innocently enough until she texts her list of things she looks for in a guy and I text back "I'll let you know when a guy I know who suits your needs becomes available " that I realise I'm starting to play with fire. The whole time one mutual friend tries to push me towards her saying how much she really likes me, that there's obviously something there. She's been the devil on my shoulder throughout but I insist there's no scandal to be seen.

But we go out for one night together and we just get carried away. And it all falls apart within 48 hours.

Some of my primary concerns when I figured where this road was heading wasn't "Gods, my poor wife," although that was obviously there. It was ridiculous things like "Jeeze, I've got to try and win over a whole new set of friends and family if this goes long term," "She's gonna be horrified when she sees my bare feet." Daft, self esteem issues.

Ultimately my issue has been that this is the sort of girl I could see a BETTER me being with. That I'm not the man I want to be with confidence and career and everything else. As much as my wife has supported me, there's part of me wonders if since getting back on my feet I've put too much focus into living the life she wants and my own needs have gone by the wayside because I've been too weak to speak up and pull my own **** together sooner. When the break-up occurred, I told the other woman that she had fallen in love with an idea of me, and my wife had seen and loves the warts and all version. She argued back that I had fallen similarly for her, that I'd get annoyed with her soon enough because her past partners have.

Fact is, for one night I was the kind of man I wanted to be (not an adulterer, before anyone gets clever). Confident, happy and with my worries and miseries thoroughly buried. I had found a side of me that had been locked up for a long time, and now I'm having to bottle him back up.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

terrafirma said:


> It's still really hard to pin down the "Why" of the affair. Looking back it is mostly that I married as a way of thanking my wife for all she had done for me and I figured it was just a case of saying "I do" followed by "Yes dear" for the next 50-60 years as my dad suggested. Then this girl comes along and there's a connection I didn't feel with the slow burn of my wife. Even now we disagree on various things, but with the new girl it was like meeting my other self.
> 
> Did I get bored with married life? Probably. And almost certainly frustrated as the househusband role took hold and the always troubled sex life saw no signs of improvement. But I've had opportunities to deviate from the path in the past and largely resisted.
> 
> ...


No offense, but why are you still here dancing around with excuses? You want out of this marriage and you know it, why dont you just pull the trigger and be done? This is obviously not for you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You don't have to bottle him up. Just divorce your wife and start a new life - WITHOUT this OW.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Alright, so I have a question.... Have you made a decision yet?

And what is current status between you and your bride?

If your staying I will tell you the tale of two husbands, mine

If you have decided to leave I will save the energy.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

OP

You are clearly afraid of being alone. It sounds like you are more attached to your wife than in love with her.... A marriage based solely on attachment cannot work. Been there, done that. 

It also sounds like you both married because you were insecure, felt rather unattractive perhaps, and thought that neither of you could do any better? Forgive me if I'm mis-interpreting.

Get out now before you have children (she wants them and you do not?) and go through a messy divorce. 

Even if you don't relish the idea of going back to live with your family, the alternative of spending your life in an unhappy marriage and desiring other women would be much, much worse.

And I'm sorry to say that this goes both ways. If your wife doesn't find you attractive it is highly likely that she will seek out another man. 

You are just not compatible. I'm sorry to be so blunt.


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

You married your wife because you wanted to be taken care of/"supported" as your mother supported you and your previous girl who was a best friend supported you.

Alas, you married a girl who wants you to support her by helping her with laundry, cooking, etc.

You don't want kids because you want to be mothered and not to "mother" others. You don't want the responsibility. 

You know that your wife wants kids, and you are afraid of being pressured to have kids, which you know is coming within the next few years when she hits 30.

You panic and cheat on your wife with the first woman who shows an interest in you so that you can rationalize your way out of your marriage and live the free life without having to do someone else's laundry or have the responsibility of being a parent. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just make out with people and have fun without having to support other people.

She should NOT have married you if she knew you didn't want to have kids. You two made this bed together.

She married a child when she wanted a father, and you wanted a mother, and got a child who wanted to be taken care of. 

If you each had married your respective parents, you would have been happy, except for the incest part. Yuck.

You are a very sensitive, introspective person though. And, I give you props for calling yourself out every once in a while.

You need to grow up at some point. Fooling around with this other woman is not going to avoid responsibility for you FOREVER. Eventually, this other woman will also want to get married and have kids, etc. 

I think you need time to mature. The "right" woman will be the one who happens to be present with you years later when you actually reach maturity. That woman could be your wife if you ride the tide for 10 years or so longer. I get the feeling that you want to sow your wild oats though while your are maturing.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Alright, so I have a question.... Have you made a decision yet?


If, in answer to the question "Do I want my marriage to work?" my decision is "Ehhh, probably." According to my dad that's enough, because it's not a clear "no".



> And what is current status between you and your bride?


Yesterday she said if I was going to carry on ignoring her (we had gone 36 hours without talking by this point due to my heavy sleeping) I might as well not return home after work. So I stayed on a colleague's sofa after a merry drink along with his family (a ringing endorsement for having kids they weren't entirely). Don't think either of us saw me actually making that move. The end result was her breaking down to her mum on the phone this morning, her mum phoning my mum and ordering a six-way family meeting. Which she then decided to forget about in favour of a one-to-one with me when I returned home to, ya know, just live my life at home a little more.

My wife is absolutely, stone bastard in love with me, was her message. For better, for worse, til death and probably beyond. That should be enough for me. It's surely something worth fighting for.

Mum-in-law explained how as far as Wife was concerned she wouldn't find anyone else, she wouldn't seek out anyone else, because that was how she was raised, one and only, forever and ever, amen. Again, that feels painfully naive and screaming of low self-esteem, but maybe it is just full-blown love and I'm too blind to see it.

Anyway, it looks like I'm seeing this out until at least another MC session, booked for next week. With wife refusing to switch counselors because the one that just happened to be our registrar "knows our history" and she's not starting again. It was one session, I don't think it would be that hard to bring a stranger up to speed. Although, with my run of tragicomedic luck so far we'd probably get the Other Woman's mother next...

Whether that's enough to be granted an insight into your tale of two husbands, Blossom, I'll let you decide.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Wow- you're just handing your wife crumbs...

She tells you she's ALL IN....and you pretty much say your willing to stick out for one more week (til your next counseling session)...

The words that come to mind.....selfish and cruel.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

terrafirma said:


> If, in answer to the question "Do I want my marriage to work?" my decision is "Ehhh, probably." According to my dad that's enough, because it's not a clear "no".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe I will save the lesson and let you learn this lesson the hard way by living it. I've learned to save my breath in these kinds of attitudes, best left to their own inevitable fall and all the pain that comes with it.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

cons said:


> Wow- you're just handing your wife crumbs...
> 
> She tells you she's ALL IN....and you pretty much say your willing to stick out for one more week (til your next counseling session)...
> 
> The words that come to mind.....selfish and cruel.


The counselling session may well not be the end. It may provide that magical epiphany where, yes, marriage hits a rut and feelings get lost along the way and there's no need to panic and bail at the first sign of trouble and we can pull it back together. 

I've just heard too many tales of "We fixed it... for a while," to go in with my expectations set way, way high. Should I go in thinking "This will get us happily ever after, forever and ever"? We'd played the "Forever" card during our uni years of separation and that seemed to be enough to get us through.



Blossom Leigh said:


> I believe I will save the lesson and let you learn this lesson the hard way by living it. I've learned to save my breath in these kinds of attitudes, *best left to their own inevitable fall* and all the pain that comes with it.


Is it that clear cut headed for disaster? Water under the bridge and the bridge already burning?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

terrafirma said:


> The counselling session may well not be the end. It may provide that magical epiphany where, yes, marriage hits a rut and feelings get lost along the way and there's no need to panic and bail at the first sign of trouble and we can pull it back together.
> 
> I've just heard too many tales of "We fixed it... for a while," to go in with my expectations set way, way high. Should I go in thinking "This will get us happily ever after, forever and ever"? We'd played the "Forever" card during our uni years of separation and that seemed to be enough to get us through.
> 
> ...


In your case, yes. 

When you are refusing wise counsel it never ends well. 

And Darlin marriages don't hit ruts in the first year.

If you had the attitude of "I dont know everything" and were leaning on the graces of all the people around you who are trying to throw you a life line I would not have the prediction that your crash and burn is inevitable and will leave deep injuries, especially in your wife. And you, my dear, will not come out unscathed. In your heart and mind, you are already treating her like a used tissue that you "might" wipe your nose with one more time. The MC is just show for you at this point. What you need is an serious attitude adjustment and trust me when I say... Its coming .... And in my Southern vernacular... It ain't gonna be pretty...

Are you and your wife Christian?


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm seeing exactly what Blossom articulated.

MC is not the magic pill...

The ability to have a great marriage starts and ends with the couple. Your wife voiced that she wants to do the hard work...to put effort into learning to love you better...

...in turn you just want to wait for someone else (MC) to do your heavy lifting and see what happens...

The path of less pain in this scenario is to let her go.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Just do your poor wife a kindness and divorce her. Get this over with, its what you want, so get on with it.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> In your case, yes.
> 
> When you are refusing wise counsel it never ends well.


So much of the counsel I'm receiving consists of "Run before any kids are dragged into the mess". Knowing I don't want any, it's hard not to heed that.



> And Darlin marriages don't hit ruts in the first year.


Ever?



> Are you and your wife Christian?


Neither of us are religious to any great degree.



Cons said:


> The path of less pain in this scenario is to let her go.


Still damn painful. It's like I don't know how to say "Sorry, sweetheart, I made a mistake marrying you too early. It's been a good nine years and you've supported me through some tough times, but we're not who we want to be. And I'm not going to be who you want me to be."

And just to make me feel like more of a ****, she has once again come home from work (about half hour after me, as I write this) with a smile on her face, a song in her heart and the everything-is-awesome attitude she is so desperately clinging on to. How do I break that spirit and leave? All she wants is her husband back. All I need to do is put up and shut up and get the **** on with it. But if the feeling's gone, what do you do?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

terrafirma said:


> And just to make me feel like more of a ****, she has once again come home from work (about half hour after me, as I write this) with a smile on her face, a song in her heart and the everything-is-awesome attitude she is so desperately clinging on to. *How do I break that spirit and leave? *All she wants is her husband back. All I need to do is put up and shut up and get the **** on with it. But if the feeling's gone, what do you do?


Because you are LYING to her! Your life together is a sham! She deserves the chance to move on with her life and find someone who cherishes her and is a real partner to her.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I find it so sad that you choose phrasing that implies that you have compassion for your wife (i.e, not wanting to break her spirit...)...

Seriously, it becomes more and more evident that you are merely staying until you find a viable reason to get yourself off the hook for being the bad guy...perhaps saying you tried all you could with MC and all of that...when truly you were never going to give it your all to begin with...

...your motives are so transparent


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Your feelings are not gone... they are tainted and given enough no contact from other women, they most likely would return. I've experienced that twice... Once when I was with my first husband when I tainted my feelings for him with another man. The second time when I was so angry at my now H for being constantly angry at me. Once his anger resolved and I had enough time to come out of that self defensive anger mode myself, the feelings returned. 

As long as she is willing... I would allow the time it takes to see if those feelings would return.

If she wasnt willing like my ex I would leave.... which is why I have an ex.

Maybe not "ever" but most brides and grooms are still in honeymoon stage in the first year, so it would be a stretch. You tainted the union with another woman... THAT is the issue here...

plus I'm curious.... how did y'all just so happen to end up somewhere together for hours on a date the night you came home at 5 in the morning. Did you ask her on a date even though you were married?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

terrafirma said:


> Still damn painful. It's like I don't know how to say "Sorry, sweetheart, I made a mistake marrying you too early. It's been a good nine years and you've supported me through some tough times, but we're not who we want to be. And I'm not going to be who you want me to be."
> 
> And just to make me feel like more of a ****, she has once again come home from work (about half hour after me, as I write this) with a smile on her face, a song in her heart and the everything-is-awesome attitude she is so desperately clinging on to. How do I break that spirit and leave? All she wants is her husband back. All I need to do is put up and shut up and get the **** on with it. But if the feeling's gone, what do you do?


This is the beginning of your life lesson and all the pain that comes with that... I don't wish it on my worst enemy. I think its why so many on here and around you there try to throw you a life line to spare you the pain that's coming... and your wife. I still say give yourself time Darlin' With my ex it took almost 2 1/2 years before it came back fully. With my current H it has only taken a few months. 

no one will ever fully meet your needs.. that was part of my two H story... but major warnings with it.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> plus I'm curious.... how did y'all just so happen to end up somewhere together for hours on a date the night you came home at 5 in the morning. Did you ask her on a date even though you were married?


Long story short? Yes. I basically asked her on a date, as much as I insisted it was just two friends, I was feeling something I shouldn't have. I should have run, I could've dropped her off at her place instead of driving on somewhere to "talk things out" but I wanted her. 

Longer version: It was agreed a couple weeks earlier that four of us would get together that night just to go out and see where the night took us. Three of us weren't all that keen to have Person #4 around, really, so we made plans without him. But then #3 made other plans so it was just left to the two of us (pretty sure #3 wasn't orchestrating anything because he's fallen for this girl before, but she didn't like him in that way).

I tossed and turned the idea of going out as a twosome in my head and wrestled with the what could it means, etc. Ultimately it was a cold, calculated, decision by me for us to go out as a pair. I lied to my wife that it was a group of us. I knew exactly what I was doing (getting myself in a whole world of trouble) but I was so drawn by this girl and our similarities, the initial spark from contact, how easy it was to just talk with her. My strategy was 1) Go out. 2) Have a nice time. 3) Don't kiss her. Despite my initial response to her advances being the oh-so-proper "This can't happen, I'm married, right?" I broke rule three. 

I gave her hope that a few months of messing around I could make a decision between the two of them and she'd probably come out the winner. It's like I was prepared to risk my marriage, but when push came to shove I wasn't prepared to lose it. Now the weeks have passed and I'm not so sure about that second part.

I feel bad for both of them. Even after eight years of a steady relationship, and a largely smear free record, it turns out I'm just like any man and will happily look for an excuse to dip his wick where it doesn't belong. 



Blossom Leigh said:


> This is the beginning of your life lesson and all the pain that comes with that... I don't wish it on my worst enemy. I think its why so many on here and around you there try to throw you a life line to spare you the pain that's coming... and your wife. I still say give yourself time Darlin' With my ex it took almost 2 1/2 years before it came back fully. With my current H it has only taken a few months.
> 
> no one will ever fully meet your needs.. that was part of my two H story... but major warnings with it.


I still feel my not wanting kids is a big issue in the less-than-perfect box for her. The OW has certainly done her share of damage to my feelings in recent weeks, but to look back to Christmas and maybe even before that and a struggle to express my feelings properly to my wife. Did it get comfortable or did it get stale?

I'm not sure I can go two and a half years wondering "Will I walk out today? Will I fall back in love with her tomorrow?"


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

terrafirma said:


> Long story short? Yes. I basically asked her on a date, as much as I insisted it was just two friends, I was feeling something I shouldn't have. I should have run, I could've dropped her off at her place instead of driving on somewhere to "talk things out" but I wanted her.
> 
> Longer version: It was agreed a couple weeks earlier that four of us would get together that night just to go out and see where the night took us. Three of us weren't all that keen to have Person #4 around, really, so we made plans without him. But then #3 made other plans so it was just left to the two of us (pretty sure #3 wasn't orchestrating anything because he's fallen for this girl before, but she didn't like him in that way).
> 
> ...


Cold hard calculated is the first time I've heard better ownership of your choices up to this point. I've heard that affairs are a passive aggressive expression of anger towards a spouse, I tend to agree that most probably are. My guess is that that was part of this choice, anger, and just previous to that was your heart already starting to wander. It was already tainted with fantasy before you felt that fantasy in real time. I've walked this road and knows how it rolls out on both sides of it. Your wife and my ex were not to blame for our choices of PURSUING and having an affair. Our better choice should have been addressing relational issues directly with our spouses and yes, to a large degree it involves accepting who our spouse is, cherishing and partnering in life. In my case I did express directly to my spouse for months that we were emotionally disconnected. He didn't have the capacity to comprehend. I should have escalated to the next level of helping him "get it" with separation, but I chose an affair wrongly so. We also had been together nine years at that point. The fall out from leaving after an affair cannot be overstated. As far as the kids comment, two things... I too used to not want kids and it changed as I aged. Also, leaving before children has "some" merit to it, what I feel has more merit is strengthening the relationship so that if children do come they are born into stable long lasting love. When you learn to love well the one you are with you end up gaining the skills to love well almost no matter who you are with. If there was anger or resentment prior to your affair... dig it up and take a look at it, see if it is resolvable. Affairs tend to put a spotlight on the imperfections of our spouse to the degree that it puts all the good in the dark, making it really hard to see.... what has to happen is ... turn off the wandering hearts spotlight, so that the shadows are no longer cast on the good... then walk around in that full light and find the pieces of the relationship that created a vulnerability. There will ALWAYS be people out there who "click" with you. You can't become a serial cheater. That is a shame you will not want to carry. That is a heavy burden. Just a good time to pause and analyze how you ended up where you are because I am sure on the day of your wedding you never intended to be here.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> In my case I did express directly to my spouse for months that we were emotionally disconnected. He didn't have the capacity to comprehend.


Weirdly, it feels like I'm walking both sides of that line at the moment. We've felt disconnected, I don't know how to fix it or make any sense of "us" again. The cynic inside me has never had much faith in therapy or counseling (probably why I still fight my depression demons), and doesn't see how it can work now. We'd been trying since before Christmas to recapture some of the "classic us" feeling, with date nights and our anniversary holiday but the disconnect was still there. For me, anyway.



> The fall out from leaving after an affair cannot be overstated.


At present I feel like I would have to skip the country and start totally anew and alone. Wife has openly said she'd buy me out of the house, so it's not like I'd be without some cash to get me a fresh start. But it is that big whole of "What the hell do I do now?" Then again, I've been floating aimlessly through life since University and thought marriage would give me some much needed purpose. Didn't work. It all has to come from within, but the within inside of me is exhausted from disappointment and rejection.



> Just a good time to pause and analyze how you ended up where you are because I am sure on the day of your wedding you never intended to be here.


I still have that horrible feeling* I ended up here because I went along with my wife's life plan, not my own. Not that my own has ever really had a strong direction. Since University ended and my career choices imploded I've sort of floated along. I tried to make my shelf-stacker job a career in management, but that was definitely not for me.

Right now, I feel more lost than ever. Self-pitying, I know, but that's the sum of it. I thought my wife would give me happiness and purpose and it feels very much like that is not the case.

*sod it, I'll call it what it is: I'm scared.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

terrafirma said:


> Weirdly, it feels like I'm walking both sides of that line at the moment. We've felt disconnected, I don't know how to fix it or make any sense of "us" again.


The best thing you can do to feel reconnected is to read His Needs Her Needs to figure out your partner's top ENs and top LBs that you do to them (to make them unhappy), follow the instructions, fill out the questionnaires, and dedicate to spending 15 hours a week together to strengthen your bond.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Take your time to study materials that will help you. And get plenty of rest.. make no fast decisions. My 1st husband and I ended up together out of not the best circumstances but when two people are willing almost anything can be over come. Its about learning how to be a great person to the person you are with and watch the response.... THAT is where the feelings reignite. Because my current husband is willing and I am too we are overcoming some very serious issues and getting closer than we were before when just three months ago I was totally ready to walk and had NO feelings left for him. You will be surprised when you start playing around with the right perspectives how fast things can shift. My ex was never willing to walk that road and I carried that relationship. I've got more for you later, but have to run and get some things done. 

I'm sorry you are hurting ... I KNOW it's deep.


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## terrafirma (Jun 6, 2014)

Well, the second session at the counselor's went.... 

Well, it happened. That was something? We got in early as her 6pm appointment cancelled (good luck to those guys, I guess). After the first 15, I was sent out for 10 mins while my wife had a 1-to-1, then I got the same afterwards.

I didn't learn anything hugely new about myself or our relationship in that time, but when we were together again it was very clear this was "piss or get off the pot" time. Counselor summarised our relationship in its current form as toxic, damaging and almost certainly irreparable. Whether this was a scare tactic or what, I don't know, but those were her words.

She recommended I move out for a month, my wife continues to see her to get over her own confidence issues, we have no communication and I return to the fourth/fifth session post split to report back how we're doing.

So I'm back with my parents for the time being. Had dental surgery this week just to add to my troubles so I'm not up to a whole lot. But already it feels strangely freeing. The pressure is off. The next three and a half weeks are either going to fly by or drag, but it's nice to have that breathing space. I still hurt, feeling for my wife and her family, but this is probably the only way my head could get clear.

Wife obviously wasn't happy with it and cried for almost the full hour while I packed. I offered comfort because I am still not a complete bastard, but it did have that beginning of the end kind of feeling.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Totally normal. End of the toxic phase IS freeing. I was totally at peace without my H home during our separation that lasted at least two months grom Feb to April this year. During that time we were both seeing professional counselors, his was weekly, mine was bi-weekly. He also had reached out to our church and was being mentored by the family minister two hours a week. So a lot of work has gone into where we are right now. Prework the conflict was constant everyday. Total communication breakdown with VERY intimidating behavior from him towards me, so much so that our five year old son was putting his body between mine and my H to protect me. Post counseling we might have one arguement a month which is a VAST improvement for us. You can imagine he and I both were numbed out, wanting to end it, but we have been dtermined to turn it around and the numbness on both sides went away as well as warmth, deep love, nurturing compassion and passion have returned.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

The way you write does not sound natural. It sounds studied and carefully worded and edited for maximum effect. It sounds like fiction. 

And you sound like you're enjoying the drama frankly. No sincerity or real feeling in your posts at all. 

Get a divorce. Your wife will be fine in a couple of years, so you can stop the faux-gellation about her lifelong devastation at losing you.


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