# What are boundaries?



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Thought this might be of interest. I found it here



> *Boundaries*
> 
> Maybe one of the most tossed about ideas in discussions of marriage, problems within marriage and families, the word gets so misunderstood so often that discussions about boundaries seem to permeate nearly every thread of those dealing with a marriage in crisis. This is a starting point to discuss boundaries in general or generic terms rather than how to apply them to our own lives. Feel free to add to the discussion or to seek clarification but try to limit the discussion to boundaries and not application to a particular situation.
> 
> ...


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I like it all except for this:

A boundary is not: An expectation of what someone else will, might or should do or not do.

I understand what the author is trying to say, but in a marriage I disagree. I think in a marriage, particularly in a post infidelity environment, that boundaries as discussed between spouses are very much about an agreement and understanding of what is and isn't acceptable behavior.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

But you have no control over the other spouses actions. Yes an agreement can be made but will the wayward follow through? Even if an understanding can be made the wayward may no follow through. Only to have your expectation to be ruined and more resentment is built.

Our boundries that we make can only be controled by us, and if the wayward crosses them then there should be consequences.

In the case of infidelity typ. waywards do not have there own boundries.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

As usual, very good post. Glad to see you added it to your signature. It reminds me of the serenity prayer - God grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

One version I heard on this is - God grant me the strength to accept the people that I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Oddly, I agree with both sigma and the guy. In a post-infidelity environment, the loyal should set boundaries for what they are willing to deal with. He/she should not, however, demand the wayward follow them. He/she sets them, tells the wayward what the consequences are (to their feelings, to what they are willing to accept, what actions will be taken, if any, etc), but then has to release control.

I just discovered the reality of this Monday. My wayward wife was introduced to a male running friend through another friend of theirs. They are of the same running speed/ability and this friend thought they could occasionally train together to get ready for a marathon. This happened prior to our DDAy in May. They ran together a couple of times - it didn't really bother me. But lately they'd been texting about non-running topics. My wife would tell me about them all. She leaves her phone out and I have read the texts. Nothing going on at all.

But the frequency spiked a bit and given she's had an EA it bothered me. So we were driving Monday evening and she got a text from him (about his friend selling a bags set, nothing weird). She told me it was him - and a few more came in, him telling her something about his military buddy. So I told her this bothered me.

She got mad at first. Said, "so now I'm THIS person, who can't even talk to people? I have to write off 50% of the population (meaning males) as anyone I can have a conversation with? If you take care of your own house, you shouldn't worry about any of this."

I told her I knew nothing was going on but it was easy for BOUNDARIES to be crossed or blurred and I didn't like this at all. 

So she cooled off after awhile, and then yesterday was completely awesome to me all day, even apologized.

My point is, I can "set" a boundary for what I will accept and how things affect me. But only SHE can decide if she wants to honor my feelings. So I agree it's her boundary really, and in her control. But I also think it is important to communicate my own, very clearly.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Gabriel,

Great job. You showed your wife that while you are not trying to control her behavior, that there are boundaries that must be mutually observed and maintained. In the process, she realized that you were right and she was woman enough to apologize to you.


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## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

So my WS has boundaries all wrong. He said his boundaries are that he can have his own seperate email, skype account, friends, etc. and that I should not invade his privacy by asking to look at any of it. Those are his boundaries. Even though he knows it makes me uncomfortable that he has his AP on skype (of course he completely denies an A at all anyway, they were only "friends").
When he was cursing me out, emotionally abusing me and our kids (by phone since he is deployed to Iraq)....he was having at the very least an EA and was even in constant contact with her mom. OMG, I still want to vomit over this. 
So my boundaries is full disclosure, he won't comply--looks like it might be time to just cut my losses. Sad that he is willing to give up 15 years over his "control" issue. He states that he is getting control back of his life. W/e.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

Morituri,

I like the cut of your jib. Great Post! 

GM


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## speechless (Aug 26, 2011)

I totally agree with morituri and theguy. A boundary doesn't control anyone but what is yours.

The best correlation I have heard comes from the book "Boundaries in Marriage" and it kinda sorta goes like this:

"When you put up a fence around your yard, you're not telling your neighbor what color to paint his house, but you are preventing him from painting yours."

Or stealing your paint.


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## speechless (Aug 26, 2011)

newlife94, I think the issue is perhaps that you're still trying to control HIS behavior.

This may all seem like spin, but it's not a boundary if he has to act.

The more appropriate boundary might possibly be "I cannot and will not continue in an intimate relationship with you when there is no trust. And shared skype/email accounts is part of that."

But don't listen to me. I found this website because I am in serious marital trouble that stems from a need to build my own boundaries... and as I said in IC recently... "I have been building fences out of paper."


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## newlife94 (Aug 11, 2011)

He is trying to say that I have controlled our entire marriage and to me this all seems like a stupid spin on words honestly. I have been the one controlled, I was a SAHM for 12 years, when I finally did start working he was upset that anyone of the opposite sex would talk to me....for fear that I would "find someone better." The only reason I started working was to contribute to our savings, not to actually build a career or anything. That was not the original intent anyway. 
I did tell him that it bothers me and he says that he does not understand why "she" bothers me so much. Well, let's see--- for one thing "she" is the only contact on his skype besides our family. We only set up two accounts because he was deploying and this was to be a means for him to keep in touch with the kids and me. Well, he used skype to ask me for a divorce, yell at the kids, curse me out and now we don't use skype at all. He does not actually call to talk to the kids either. He says it is frustrating to try and talk to them on the phone. Well, they don't know what to say to him anymore. He is flaky and we never know what he will say when he calls.
I have so many friends telling me and also my IC, that this marriage cannot be repaired unless he is all in and gets MC. He won't even consider MC. Sad.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

bump


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## WhoIsIt (Dec 28, 2010)

So my question to this group is about how you went about setting consequences for violating your boundaries. More specifically, what were considered "deal breakers" and what did you do about the things that crossed a boundary but weren't bad enough to force a divorce?

Fortunately this hasn't happened to me, but it's not hard to imagine this coming up.

Just coming up with an easy example off the top of my head (not directly related to my situation). Say your WS had a PA and you were in the midst of reconciling. Months and months later, you found out your spouse was flirting with someone else. You know and can verify that it hadn't gotten physical or even to the level of an EA, but it still crossed a clear boundary (e.g., "I will not accept my spouse having inappropriate communication with other men/women").

How do you develop consequences that are meaningful, but that don't end the whole thing?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

WhoIsIt said:


> Say your WS had a PA and you were in the midst of reconciling. Months and months later, you found out your spouse was flirting with someone else. You know and can verify that it hadn't gotten physical or even to the level of an EA, but it still crossed a clear boundary (e.g., "I will not accept my spouse having inappropriate communication with other men/women").
> 
> How do you develop consequences that are meaningful, but that don't end the whole thing?



Under that scenario, you can't. In order to be meaningful, the consequences for such disrespectful behavior have to be of a severe nature - i.e. separation, divorce. Otherwise, the DS(WS) will become more blatant and will eventually have another affair because the consequences to him/her are practically non-existent.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Consequences should be in proportion to the violation. In the case of starting up flirting during reconciliation from a previous affair, yes I think filing for divorce is a reasonable consequence. Is there some lesser consequence? It is difficult to think of one.

Now if the situation were less extreme, such as flirting but without any history of cheating before, the consequence may be complete transparency, a loss of some privacy. You may want her to give you all her passwords and to never erase anything from her phone. You may require her whereabouts always be known to you. You may require that you both attend marriage counseling.

Most times the consequences are not necessarily verbally stated. You don't give preemptive boundaries "wife, you've never cheated but if you start flirting I'm going to require you give me all your passwords". You state simply what you will not accept, usually in response to a line being crossed. "Wife, I feel you crossed the line on our marriage when you flirted with JoeBob. I will not abide by my wife engaging in such behavior with other men". So you don't threaten divorce or something, you simply state it as a boundary.

Some things do get specific. I told my wife that for me it was a deal breaker boundary that we have full open honesty in both directions. She knows that deception is a divorce level infraction. But I have also stated other boundaries, such as family meals. It is not acceptable to not have regular family meals. There is no stated consequence, she just knows it will become a problem for her if she makes it a problem for me.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

At one time I had no conscious concept of my personal boundaries. And because of that I let people get inside of me too easily, most especially my stbxw. The consequences to that is that at times I got hurt deeply and I responded to that hurt sometimes with anger and other times with a deep sadness.

Another consequence of my lack of boundaries was that I became a codependent. Instead of saying something like “I don’t tolerate that behaviour”, I tried to change my stbxw’s abusive behaviour towards me. In many ways she was a superb wife and hence I was exceptionally patient and tolerant with her bad side. But being patient and tolerant just got me more of the same.

And then I discovered personal boundaries and suddenly became very conscious of them. I erected some very quickly, told my wife what I would no longer tolerate from her and to all intents and purposes our marriage came to an end. I discovered, quite literally within two days, that there was no way she was going to change her abusive behaviour towards me. She couldn’t do it, it was impossible for her to do it, because it was so deeply in-ground in her psyche, as much a part of her as an arm or leg.

But I was a true amateur with my boundaries, I still am and I’m still learning. The following’s from Four stages of competence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

(1) Unconscious Incompetence 
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognise their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage.[2] The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.[3]

(2) Conscious Incompetence 
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.[4]

(3) Conscious Competence 
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.[3]

(4) Unconscious Competence 
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

It’s good to think on the above model when learning a new life skill like personal boundaries. In perhaps a year or so time I’ll be an Unconscious Competent as far as boundaries are concerned.


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## WhoIsIt (Dec 28, 2010)

I need to peruse these boards for stories about people who set effective personal boundaries and developed a successful marriage after that. It seems like a lot of the stories on this particular board (CWI) involve people moving to divorce, which is pretty discouraging. Don't know if that's true or just my perception not having read them all. I know there are some success stories.

I also have a feeling a lot of people go through the process, then just stop enforcing boundaries. "We need to go to MC together." So they do for a while, but then the WS gets bored of it and the BS doesn't want to press the issue.

It's funny though--part of my difficulty has been figuring out what is a reasonable boundary and what things I simply have to become more comfortable with. Not everything that causes me anxiety is a real problem, so winnowing out my insecurities from legitimate issues has been a challenge.


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