# Never done this before...



## destroyed/confused/lost (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm not sure how to begin. I've been with my husband since 1995 - when we met in high school. Been married 10 years last November. It's been great but the last 7 years have been a disaster for him. He doesn't think I care about him anymore and we've had numerous breakdowns in our sexual relationship. I'll start at the beginning. (Let me add, it takes a lot of courage to post something here and to know I will have detractors - I believe though that the insight I may gain from people that have been through these things themselves is far more important than feeling low, which I can't believe I can get lower...)

About 7 years ago, I went to bachelorette party, my best friends. I proceeded to get wildly drunk and in the midst of playing a card game to do crazy things for points, a guy kissed me. I remember kissing him back for several seconds and then stopping, horrified that I did that. I came home and the next morning told my hubby about it. Which can mark pretty much the end of everything for us.

I couldn't give him all the answers he needed, like WHY I let this happen (and I know some people would say well, it was just a kiss, but still I cheated). I couldn't and can't tell him why this happened - one point that has continued to destroy us. He feels he needs that for closure - I don't have a reason! I didnt' want to cheat, we had just had our 2nd child, we were happy. 

Man, I don't even know how to keep the story going...

Over the last 6 years, we have had a horrible disconnect. For him, sex is love. While I agree that it is a VERY important part of a marriage, I think affection and the "little things" can prove love as well, or are at least signs of it. I need to feel connected to him to be able to feel comfortable having sex, and when I feel like he's given up, doesn't care two ways about me, has told me verbally all kinds of things in anger, (ranging to criticizing my parenting, my looks/weight, my ambition or drive), striking out for things the kids break in the house (somehow it's my fault for not watching them closer), ok you get the picture. It feels as if I can do nothing right. Well, after hearing so many horrible things said in anger, I can't just feel cozy with him anymore. Maybe he doesn't realize I can't and won't forget a lot of what he's said. I feel like he does truly hate me deep down inside. That his perception of me is very twisted. He has become extremely controlling, checks my history on my computer, checks my cell phone, checks my email. Now, if I was whoring around and gave him reason to think I am ****ing around on him, I could get behind the idea of him thinking I'm not attracted to him. When in reality, I am attracted, I just feel very very hurt. He feels hurt as well, but by the thing that happened way back then...not continuously hurt by being torn down week after week. 

He complains about the laundry, the state of the house, the kids, that I'm on the computer, that we're not having sex often enough. I feel like if we don't have sex 3x a week or more, we go back to square one in terms of him feeling comfortable and knowing he has a place in my heart. When he fights, he seems to forget that I let him sleep in when he's sick, get his prescriptions, his appointments, let him go fishing or other things with he guys. All while working full-time, caring for the children and trying to stay afloat of the housework - then I'm worried and having anxiety attacks about the physical side fo our relationship as well.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I don't know what to do. I want my husband back, but I'm afraid that this will never change. I "improve" in some departments he has complaints about, only to have the rug pulled out from under me on another week. I don't know what to think half time, I don't know whether I'm coming or going with him. When we don't have sex, I'm afraid of the attitude I'll get the next day. I find it strange when we don't have sex because I'm tired, it's counted into his "not have sex for x amount of days rant" but when he's sick or feeling yucky or tired, it's not.

This is starting to sound like a vent session and that's not what I wanted. What I want is for someone to tell me it does work out. That if you truly love eachother, it can be ok and relationships can be salvaged. I'm afraid he's past that point. He's said this has caused him mental anguish and seems hardly worth the effort. How do we get past the feeling he has and gives me that I have to immediately improve on EVERYTHING he has issue with - if I don't and something falls by the wayside, (i.e. cleaning, laundry, kid time, sex time, affection time) he throws us back to square one. I didn't "talk" about any of our issues the last 3 weeks because we seemed to be improving - now he's mad about something and we're back to square one. Yet not one time in those 3 weeks did he have any insight or anything to add to our conversations.

Am I crazy to think this can improve?

I want my husband back - I want my husband to care about our marriage and to stop flying off the handle and for him to stop being so damn critical of EVERYTHING that concerns me. I can't be perfect...I'm' afraid of what'll happen when he realizes this...


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't see infidelity as an issue here. Maybe you should take this to another forum.

If you are telling the truth about the kiss I would say this is no big deal. Upsetting, yea, due to my state of mind and what my WS did to me I am sensitive to this stuff. But in a better state of mind it would not be that big of a deal.

Your husband has serious issues.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Your husband has serious issues.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

All that because you kissed a guy for a few seconds when you were really drunk and told him about it right away? Holy crap.


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> All that because you kissed a guy for a few seconds when you were really drunk and told him about it right away? Holy crap.


would you like it if your spouse did that to you?.....OP everyone has different tolerance levels maybe your husband simply lacks the emotional ability to handle all this. For all he knows you did more than what you told him even if you didn't. Everyone handles infidelity differently. I would suggest counselling and a long honest conversation with him.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

in my state of mind now, i would consider it cheating and we would no longer be together.
if he is going to stick around, both of you need to find out what is going on.

imo, drinking is NOT an excuse.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Romeo_Holden said:


> would you like it if your spouse did that to you?.


Of course not but I wouldn't treat him like dirt for SEVEN YEARS for it.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Of course not but I wouldn't treat him like dirt for SEVEN YEARS for it.


thats right.
either fix it or get the h3ll out of dodge.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

_About 7 years ago, I went to bachelorette party, my best friends. I proceeded to get wildly drunk and in the midst of playing a card game to do crazy things for points, a guy kissed me. I remember kissing him back for several seconds and then stopping, horrified that I did that. *I came home and the next morning *told my hubby about it. Which can mark pretty much the end of everything for us._

Agreed that 7 years is a long time to hold such a vicious grudge for a drunken kiss. But does he believe that it was just a drunken kiss? You say you came home the next morning.

Also, were there any other circumstances that exacerbated his anger? Had he asked you not to go because he was afraid of what would go on at the bachelorette party? Had you asked him not to attend a bachelor party prior to that?

As far as telling him why it happened, at this point, if giving him a reason will make him feel better, can't you just make something up? How about one or both of these:

_I was attracted to him physically and liquor had erased my inhibitions.

I was playing a game for points and wanted to impress and one-up my friends._

As far as your part in this "disconnect" for the past 6 years is concerned, it's hard to fight with somebody who isn't fighting back. Can you try having sex with him 3x a week for a month and see if his behavior changes? Bomb him with love and affection for a month to see if that helps him finally get over it? Just shrug off his barbs and insults for a month? Just agree with him and smile at him for a month and don't let him see it bothers you.

My guess is that he is getting the reaction he wants out of you - which is that you argue with him, defend yourself, come back at him.

The way you describe it, your husband seems mentally ill. Seems all one-sided and makes me wonder how you stayed with him this long.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm wondering many of the things that Will mentioned. I think for your husband to hold onto this for so long there is more to this than a kiss. At least in his mind. If he changed as abruptly as you say I don't think mental illness is at work other than the mental illness that comes from betrayal. Is he ultra religious? Like Will said did he ask you not to go? Had you done something before that would have him questioning his trust in you? Did someone else at the party tell him you had sex and he is waiting for you to confess it? There is more here.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

D/C/L,

In addition to thinking something else has happened in your marriage can I ask you a question?

Do you think a miracle is going to happen? Are you waiting for divine intervention to fix your marriage?


It is not going to happen. If you love your husband and he loves you then make an appt. with a marriage counselor and you both go. He does not get a choice.

You guys both have issues. Are you waiting until one of you do not come home one day???

Take positive action to fix this. If he is not willing then leave him no choice. Tell him you refuse to continue to live like this.

And if there is more to your story please tell us.

Stay strong and move your life forward. It sounds so stagnant.

HM64


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I am sorry but I have to ask.

What the hell was a guy doing at a bachelorette party playing card games with the girls? Plus you say you came home the next morning - translation; you spent a drunken night with a guy/guys.

Aside from that - your husbands behavior is not acceptable. Maybe his insecurities were triggered by your confession, but I doubt that it is the cause.

You two may need some serious marriage counseling.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Your feelings are understandable, OP. But there is more to this thread.

You also say "7 years has been a disaster for him". How would you put up with such 7 years of abuse? Did you not make him understand?

You say "for him sex is love". Is this your present understanding of his love? Or was it even before your so called "just a kiss"?

IMO, he is feeling very insecure about your love. He is not yet out of his anger.

Why would a married woman kiss another man? Just because she was drunk? 

What is your botheration if he checks your computer history? It is because he thinks that you were not completely honest with him. So open up for him, let him verify to his heart's content. If you did not have any A, it should not bother you, right? He will settle down.

I dont think he hates you. If he hated you, you would not be remaining married to him. He is feeling very insecure. Time to get counseling.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

destroyed/confused/lost said:


> I'm not sure how to begin. I've been with my husband since 1995 - when we met in high school. Been married 10 years last November. It's been great but the last 7 years have been a disaster for him. He doesn't think I care about him anymore and we've had numerous breakdowns in our sexual relationship. I'll start at the beginning. (Let me add, it takes a lot of courage to post something here and to know I will have detractors - I believe though that the insight I may gain from people that have been through these things themselves is far more important than feeling low, which I can't believe I can get lower...)
> 
> About 7 years ago, I went to bachelorette party, my best friends. I proceeded to get wildly drunk and in the midst of playing a card game to do crazy things for points, a guy kissed me. I remember kissing him back for several seconds and then stopping, horrified that I did that. I came home and the next morning told my hubby about it. Which can mark pretty much the end of everything for us.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry that you are having these problems. I was in a marriage that sounds very similar to your situation. I stayed for 22 years. I tried talking, kindness, firmness, MC etc. The issues were related to my H's need to control me. He had to make me feel awful to feel he was in control I guess. I should have never stayed with him. My only regret is that I did not leave sooner. I hope that your situation is not as intractable as was mine, but it sounds like it might be. MC may help. Nothing ever did with my H, and he was gob smacked when I walked out. I loved my H with all my heart, and I wanted my M to work, but you cannot do it alone.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Have you considered occam's razor?

Have you investigated and eliminated the possibilty that he is currently involved in any type of extra-marital relationship?

I'm not suggesting he is. But, I am suggesting that it would not be a surprise and the possibilty should be eliminated beyond a shadow of a doubt before you do anything else.


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## gedede (Mar 22, 2012)

I have been reading the forums here since last summer and have learned an incredible amount from the people here. I told my wife about the forums and how they have helped me, thinking she may also benefit from the site. I was still very surprised to realize that this particular post is about me and my wife. I debated if I should tell my wife I saw the post or discuss it in any way and I decided to wait and see if she came back to fill in any of the gaps for you guys. But since she hasn't I finally decided I would. I do love my wife very much and I am just trying to make this work!

First of all from the original post I can completely understand some of the comments. But I would like to fill in the blanks and get some more opinions on moving forward. Everything that I am saying in this reply has been said by me to my wife but maybe as a response to her post she may see it differently. Most of what my wife wrote was true but as some of you suspected there is much more to the story at least from my point of view. And that is what my problem has really always been. We see this situation very differently and I dont feel like there has ever really been much remorse from my wife. 

So here is my version of the events and I will stay away from speculation (of which I have plenty) and stick to facts undisputed by my wife. The bachelorette party was in April 2006. It was at a nightclub so that is why there where guys there. I never asked my wife not to go as I had no reason for her not to go out and have a blast. It did apparently start out as my wife described with a game that turned into a guy kissing her and then her kissing him. But what she left out is that she was grinding on the dance floor with this guy before this game. He was invited by her to the game. And that was not the only kiss. After that kiss they talked a while and he asked if her husband would mind if she was kissing him an she said she didn't care (overheard by the whole party). Then they kissed some more and where interrupted by my best friends wife yelling at her that she was a married woman. This reminder was brushed off and I have never heard what happened beyond that other than I know at some point later in the night that guy left the bar. Now before leaving the bar that night my wife also kissed another completely different guy. The details of this I have also never really heard. The girls at the party told me about the second guy and my wifes version is this was only a short kiss and that is all I have ever gotten. She left the bar with girls so I know where she was that night. But as far as hearing the truth the next morning. That is complete BS. I heard the next morning that there was a little peck with a guy as part of a game. All the other stuff was trickled out very slowly over the next month. Most of what I found out was from the other girls at the party and then confirmed by wife. None of them wanted to say too much and wanted my wife to be the one to tell me what happened if I wanted to know. No one wanted to be the one who gave me a reason for divorce. My friends wife did tell him later though that If she where me knowing what she knew she would file for divorce. 

I know it may seem like just kissing, but to me this whole thing seemed bigger than just having too much to drink and kissing some random. Now if I had felt real remorse from my wife and she gave me an explanation I think I could have gotten over it then. But to this day I still have not heard anything other than I was drunk. I have even made the comment to her like Will_Kane suggested that if she really cared she could at least make something up to try to make me feel better. And yes it has been a long time and sometimes I do feel like if I haven't moved past it yet I may never will. But I feel like the things I need to move past have never been provided. And there have been a few more speed bumps along the way which I will touch on. And I do admit to being a pain in the ass sometimes about the house stuff but in my defense I feel as though my wife treats me more like a roommate than a husband and if she wants a roommate than she needs to do her share around the house. I did say her share, but I also do my share.

So a couple other speed bumps along the way that have pushed us back. About a year or so after the first incident there was a friend that moved away and he started calling my wife. one night I answered the house phone to no one there. Then a few minutes later wife's phone rings and she leaves the room. Obvious red flag for me. It took a few weeks but I found out they had been talking for a little while and even after I had voiced my concerns about the situation. Then I find out that my wife had told him to only email or call her at work so I wouldn't know. I made sure it was ended from the x-fiend side of it and was pretty sure I did what I could considering he doesn't live in this state. But still his name pops up every few months. The most recent was monday on Facebook as a friend request to my wife (The day before this post!?!?) I asked to see the invite but she conveniently already deleted his request AND her response.

And about a year and a half after that there was also another instance with a guy that my wife plays with in an online game. I found out she was on instant messenger with this guy all day, every day for over two weeks while at work. I had a hunch and asked and was told straight to my face that she had not been talking with this guy and had to confirm for myself and only when I had proof did she admit it. Of course she said it was all innocent and just game talk. As always I felt like I only got the truth I already knew and could prove and not a drop more. And yes two nights of her week are dedicated to playing this game with a bunch of guys including this one.

So thats most of it. And yes AS FAR AS I KNOW there has never been any actual sex with any of these guys but the part I have trouble with to this day is the unanswered questions about my wife and at least four different guys. I have barley gotten apologies for these events let alone an explanation. And after much education on this forum I seriously doubt I know all there is to know about these situations.

To PIT and any others wondering, I am not now or have ever cheated on my wife. I just want to find a way to trust my wife and move out of the past for me and my wife but maybe more importantly for our kids.

Thanks for any help you guys may offer!


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

If you really are her husband maybe she's aware of you reading these forums since last year.If so,I would question the honesty of her post in regards to her remorse,the actual events themselves and whether she's been faithful since.I hope she didn't post to get one over on you.Take care.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Not to take sides---but this mge., is totally screwed up

Are you both just staying for the kids---are you both just staying cuz you don't want what comes with a divorce

If you are both telling the truth, and who knows----your wife has had at least, that you know of, 4 EA's, and a ONS, of kissing and fondling/grinding----on top of that she spends hours that should be spent with her family, on the computer playing games.

She basically accuses you of abuse, and over control

The kids have to be suffering----tell me why for the last 6 to 7 yrs, the 2 of you haven't forcefully attempted to talk to each other enuff to work something out----you both accuse each other of a lack of communication----

H. thinks wife isn't remorseful enuff, isn't contrite---W. doesn't like much of anything about the H

Why are you both still in this mge----can either of you answer that question, and please don't put it on the kids---what you are doing is destroying them!!!!!!!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

To the husband. Your wife doesn't seem to have any boundaries with other men. The only way you can stay with her is to have her take a polygraph, quit gaming, give you all her passwords including work, phones, texts,emails etc. Absolutely no GNOs. If what you say is true the poly is a must.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Ok, to your corners. Marquis of Queensberry rules. No hitting below the belt.

First, to D/C/L. Why did you omit the rest of your dealings with other men?

Next you have heard the old adage "Men give love for sex and women give sex for love". Its true with manipulative men. But the fact is men connect with their wives through sex. Its how men know that their solid in their relationship. And those men usually are just as interested in their wives pleasure, probably more. Women need conversation not arguing or badgering. But I can tell you this. Through all your adventures in deceit you have given your husband a case of PTSD. He can't get beyond your infidelity because YOU KEEP DOING IT. You may not have had sex with these other men, but you are toying with it in your mind. And it is literally torturing him. PULL THE CORD ON THE COMPUTER AND BE A WIFE AND MOTHER. IF YOU'VE GAINED WEIGHT, LOSE IT. IF YOU WANT ENCOURAGEMENT, DO THINGS THAT WILL GET IF FOR YOU. I will wager that you know how your husband likes the house. And if the kids are breaking things because they're board with you sitting on the computer and the afternoon cartoons are over. WOMAN UP!

For gedede, You need to encourage your wife even in the little things. You are the bread winner. You are out and about going here, doing that. Your wife has to converse with 4 and 5 years olds all day. Just how do you think that is filling her 40,000 word quota for the day? "Yeah sponge bob, mommy can I have some water? Johnie is hitting me!" She can't reach it with the kids. How are they to respond when she needs to talk "adult talk". Which she does. So she goes on the computer. To better understand the situation between both of you. I need you to both be introspective in the dynamics of your relationship. YOU MUST BOTH BE COMPLETELY HONEST OR YOUR WASTING OUR TIME AND YOURS.

Both of you layout your days. Not too specific. Kind of a list. Indicate in it if that is every day. What day is your "caste in iron" date night? To be away from the kids.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

always interesting to hear both side of the story!!!!!!!

she sounds like a sh*t bird to me!

I could never trust someone like that.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

specifically on the sex issue. You are both being selfish. Let me guess. He comes on to you, you say "not to night". Then the next night he does the same thing. And you do the same thing or you grudgingly give in. God intended for sex to be bonding between husband and wife. Doesn't sound like the sex is to bonding. Try this. Make a rule that you have sex 3 times a week. If one night D/C/L doesn't feel like it, fine, but you must agree to give it up the next night. If you have already postponed it, make good on the deal. Try to ready yourself by thinking of your husband throughout the day and what fun you'll have. Oh and do your kids get a lot of exercise and park days? Let them burn off the energy and they'll sleep better and earlier. And this is a way to get her adult talk with other mothers at the park. A lot of moms will power walk the park around where the kids are playing to get their exercise.

gedede, she cannot turn on like a light switch. She needs conversation not arguing or badgering. Women have to feel desirable. They need to be romanced. That means phone calls throughout the day, e-mails, texts, flowers on occasion, if she likes them. give her a break time with the kids. When you get home let her have some me time in the bath, with you taking care of the kids. 

D/C/L, as others have said, you have to have complete transparency. No hidden e-mail accounts or phones. You have been very deceptive.

P.S. Just a fun fact. Do you know what the chief cause of death among women in the old days out west was? Not Indians, or sickness, it was Suicide. That's right. They could not take the time alone, while the man was working all day in the fields or off hunting for days or weeks. That's why things like quilting bees, and sewing circles, barn dances and such were invented.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Gedede
I have a novel idea. How about communicating with your wife today. I am sure she got notification of your post.

If you two can' t communicate like 2 adults that say they love each other, then communicate in writing here!

You have been TT'd for 6 years. That creates a lot of anger. We all get it that she as been lying to you. Why let it go on for 6 years.

Time to see a counselor together.

DCL,
Time to stop playing games with your husband and marriage. The only option I see for you is to stop lying, tell the entire truth and both of you decide where you want to go from here.

Both of you go home, shut off the pc's and tell each other the truth.

Life is too short for these kinds of games.

You both said you love each other. Start acting like it!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

...and that's, my friends, why we should take anything coming from newly-arrived waywards here with a grain of salt.

Just look how successfully she gaslighted you folks right with the first post.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Not everyone snap. Patience.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Why would you think she would act different here then with her husband? We got a pretty good glimpse of the dynamic here.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

gedede said:


> To PIT and any others wondering, I am not now or have ever cheated on my wife.


TO GEDEDE (lol, don't scream man! its to early in the morning to scream) I didn't suggest you were. I suggested it should be eliminated as a possibilty. 

It would be logical.... 

There are two sides to every story. We only heard your W's side and she is a cheater. Knowing cheaters lie, trickle truth, justify and minimize. (_and not being subject to getting gaslighted, *snap.* lol.!!!_) It was assumed that the other side of the story was likely much different than what we were being spoon fed... It would not have been a stretch to assume you could be done with her sh*t and emotionally long gone... After hearing your version, I commend you for holding your morals intact and never having looked outside your _marraige_ for comfort.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Stranger things have happened. For some reason people find it easier to write their story or express their feelings here like it is neutral territory.

And yes their dynamic is very unhealthy, down right dysfunctional.

All we can do is offer good suggestions that might help them.....


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Where is OP? The wife in this case.

As I said earlier, there is more to the thread.

Why would she kiss another man? 

It is not the question of her boundaries, any more. More than that. Take her to IC.

Sorry, gedede, the husband, you are here not by your wish.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> TO GEDEDE (lol, don't scream man! its to early in the morning to scream) I didn't suggest you were. I suggested it should be eliminated as a possibilty.
> 
> It would be logical....
> 
> There are two sides to every story. We only heard your W's side and she is a cheater. Knowing cheaters lie, trickle truth, justify and minimize. (_and not being subject to getting gaslighted, *snap.* lol.!!!_) It was assumed that the other side of the story was likely much different than what we were being spoon fed... It would not have been a stretch to assume you could be done with her sh*t and emotionally long gone... After hearing your version, I commend you for holding your morals intact and never having looked outside your _marraige_ for comfort.


Pit, you are becoming a hero, man!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

AngryandUsed said:


> Pit, you are becoming a hero, man!












lol.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

LOL


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I like Pit, he's funny.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> I like Pit, he's funny.


Yep 

Figures the OP lied. I'm WAY too gullible!!!!


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

To hubby,

When reading your wife's post I found it hard to believe that you would still be angry after 7 years, and I knew there was more to the story....

I agree that your wife has some boundary issues, but I think she is truly unhappy, and she is on the verge of having a full blown affair, this is not an exuse, but to warn you she has all the symptoms of taking it further. You need to get help for your marriage like yesterday in order to prevent further damage. If you are both committed to the marriage go to counseling asap, if not, end the marriage, end it for the sake of the kids living this horrible life. We don't realize how much kids see and hear. 

If you could just tone down the verbal stuff, and show her in small ways that you have some trust in her, it will go a long way. I'm not saying to be a door mat, but anger and critisism go no where, and only cause the other person to shut down. It's heartbreaking what you have been through, I know, I watched my husband go through the same thing, but she also needs to know that you have some hope that things will get better.


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