# Big Scare on Saturday...



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Over the last year, we have gone through a few changes in our relationship. I was complaining about the lack of sexual interest from my wife, I went through a position change within my company, my wife decided to make a career change herself, my family (sisters & parents) all decided to move to a different province about 9hrs drive away...so quite a lot of change in the last 7 months.

About 6 weeks ago, my wife seemed to take more of an interest in our sexual relationship again and I didn't think it had anything to do with me. She had made the decision to change careers and that made sense to me as a stress reliever for her (I was just happy to be on the receiving end of this benefit  ) She went through a few set backs with interviews, but landed a new job last week which was more great news...she was starting to get anxious about not having anything lined up for the end of the summer, which was her personal deadline.

I had crashed my motorcycle last fall and finally, in the last week of July, the bike was completely repaired and I could start riding again. So I rented a trailer, took the kids and headed for my parents new place (they just retired in May, hence the move to a warmer climate) so that the kids could visit Grampa & Gramma, letting my wife have a weekend to herself. We had a great visit and when I returned she said she wanted to take the kids to the amusement park and do the tourist thing, which meant a stay in the Hotel & some more pampering for her. Sounded good to me, I got to stay home with the dogs & ride my bike in the evening...Win - Win...she returned home this past Friday and everything seemed great! (I even got lucky Friday night!!)

I told her Friday evening that I was planning a motorcycle ride for a few hours on Saturday, and all was good...Saturday morning, she asked if we could go for a coffee down by the lake first...excellent idea, it would be nice to just go for a walk and visit since the last week or two were pretty hectic!

That's when it all went sideways...she was really quiet all the way down there, as I was making small talk. We got there and we sat down, stupid me commenting on how nice it was down at the park with the recent changes made...then she hit me with it..."Are you happy?"....still not clear on where it was going I answered, "yes, most of the time...we have our ups & downs but mostly I am enjoying life"...her response, "I'm not."

My heart stopped and I almost puked.  Then I started feeling numb..."what do you mean?" was all I could come up with...she said, "now I feel terrible, I thought you were feeling the same way..."...then proceded to cry. She said that she had been feeling this way for months and finally decided to talk about it. I felt like I had been run over by a truck.



"So, where do we go from here?"...again, all I could think of to say. She wasn't sure, and started talking about whether we should sell the house and how we would afford this change. She kept saying that she felt that I "didn't care about her, whether she was there or not...", I thought I had been giving her space to do her own thing...reading books, watching TV, twitter...she thought I was withdrawing from the relationship, I thought because of the recent sexual awakening I was doing something right for a change...but apparently she was wanting more sex to try to rekindle...unbelievable communication issues!!

I said that I needed time to think about this "bomb" that she had dropped...went for my bike ride. I didn't ride much, since I wasn't thinking of my riding...I was trying to figure what the hell went wrong? I came home and told her that I wasn't ready to just give up on 20yrs of time invested, especially with someone I still love. I told her that if she has already made up her mind to move on, then that would be our route since guilt is no way to continue a relationship. I left her with that thought for a while, then later in the evening we had another talk.

This time, she said that she was glad that I reacted the way I did...she thought I would just take her up on the clean split and be ready to walk away. :scratchhead:

The next day was very cuddly & loving (not sex, just hand holding and closeness)...


Now it is back to normal, but is it really? I'm so unsure of where everything is, I don't know if I should just continue on assuming that she just needed confirmation that I still want and love her...or is there something nasty and scary coming down the road that I'm too blind to see???

I'm a little freaked out right now, but I don't know how to tell if she is being honest with me since she is acting like Saturday never happened.

I'm so lost for where we are right now it isn't even funny.

Later.


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

Random comments

You've been happy, you're satisfied but she's been unhappy for a long time. You were completely unaware of how she has been feeling. That's not good.

When someone cheats, quite often the sex increases with the betrayed partner. Its paradoxical. 

She may be acting normal but you haven't heard the last of this.

Why did it take almost a year to fix your motorcycle?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> I thought because of the recent sexual awakening I was doing something right for a change...but apparently she was wanting more sex to try to rekindle...unbelievable communication issues!!


It sounds as though in wanting more sex she had hoped to establish more emotional intimacy with you, because I get the impression from your post that the two of you haven't been communicating with one another too well. 

For a woman to want sex, there (usually) has to be a healthy level of emotional intimacy/good communication; yet, ironically, when there's no sex, the intimacy and communication breaks down further. Catch 22!

It sounds like you both need to sit down and be totally open with one another. If this is difficult, you could consider MC.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

donders said:


> Random comments
> 
> You've been happy, you're satisfied but she's been unhappy for a long time. You were completely unaware of how she has been feeling. That's not good.
> 
> ...


As for the being unaware issue, she said she didn't say or do anything thinking she would just make it work for the kids and the comfortable life we live...she says she still loves me, but just couldn't go on being so unhappy??? WTF does that mean? How can you be in love and totally unhappy?

I did ask her if there was someone else, saying that if there was we should find a way to stay civil and make life as smooth as we can for the kids...but she said she had considered it, but there was no one. (but how would she really answer this one?)

I asked her last night how she could so quickly be over it, since it was months of her trying to decide how to talk about it then in one day everything seems fine?...she said that she wasn't over it, but was happy that I was willing to work on it, saying that my attitude was the biggest factor...and I acknowleged that I have been quite moody for the past while, and I think it was stress induced but that is no reason to take it out on my family...I haven't been vile, but I have been grumpy & short with everyone lately.

We did discuss MC, and may still go that way...never hurts to get some outside advice. I told her that if my attitude doesn't change, that is the way we will go before it gets to this point again. It still scares the crap out of me that I didn't even know that she was so unhappy 

As for the motorcycle...I didn't want to work on it until spring, then I started digging into it. I ordered the obvious parts...bent fork & rim, broken shifter, scratched up mirrors, etc...but once I got all those pieces in and put the bike back together, I realized that there were more problems...so I rode it for a bit while some parts were ordered, then the new wheel bearings failed (due to my lack of installing them correctly...not properly seated) so I ordered new wheel bearings and had to wait for the shop to put them in (didn't want to take any chances), but they were booked up and the soonest I could get the bike in was three weeks later. I figured since I was going to have to wait, I would order a re-seal kit for the other fork. And after furthur investigation, I found I didn't have the tools to do the seals so I took it into the shop...that's when I found out the other fork was also bent...and it had to be ordered from Europe  So, the bike was finally repaired at the end of July...that's why it took nearly a year.

Later.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> she thought I was withdrawing from the relationship,
> 
> She kept saying that she felt that I "didn't care about her, whether she was there or not...",
> 
> ...


She sounds like she's seeking reassurance that you want her and your marriage. She's not feeling secure about your marriage and your commitment to her. Find out more specifically what she feels is getting between you. She's not feeling loved and secure.

Ask her what kind of marriage she wants to have - what does her ideal marriage look like - and what incremental changes the two of you can make to improve it.

Maybe she needs more quality time together, just the two of you, or together with the kids. Maybe she needs more affection. Maybe she needs you to listen more, or she needs to talk more. Maybe you need more activities that you do together. Maybe she needs to hear you say you love her and appreciate the little things she does; maybe you need her to say those things.

This doesn't have to be the end of the world, but since you've both been living with a huge misunderstanding, it seems like talking more about your lives together and what you want your lives together to be like would be the first step.

Lots of people here recommend the books, "His Needs, Her Needs" and "The Five Love Languages". Maybe those can help you two start talking about what you need to be happy in your marriage.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

She may have been operating under a "self fulfilling prophecy" mode. She feels your are pulling away so she has emotionally prepared herself and pulled the trigger first. What ever it is, it most certainly is a shot over the bow and needs to be addressed. I agree with Norajane that reading The 5 Love Languages would be a good place to start. It was of great help to me in understanding my wife's need for quality time and my need for physical intimacy. There are obviously some communication issues here but don't feel to bad about misreading the signs. (Sexist comment coming) As men we generally don't read these things very well. Your wife has done you a great service in bringing it up before she had lost all hope. Stay on top of it to get back to a good place for you both. Good luck.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

The funny thing is(not really funny, funny...kinda weird funny), in the last three or four months we have gone out on date night more than we have in the last 10yrs...the kids have gotten old enough to be left at home and we have gone out for dinners, drinks, listen to a friend play guitar and sing at the local open mic...I thought things were getting stronger, and with the recent sexual awakening of my wife...I don't know, I really thought things were getting better. Obviously wifey had/has a different picture of what is happening.

I'm still kinda freaked out that I completely couldn't see it, or that I was giving signals that I was pulling away. I've been texting where I am and my ETA to get home more frequently, so that she knows when to expect me and that's one of the items that she brought up last year...she always worried when I wouldn't show up at the regular time, or expected time...but, now I find out things are worse...

I guess I just keep working on my faults...it just makes me wonder if she isn't pulling away for a different reason, or preparing herself for something?? I'm going to go with norajane on this one and hope she just needed reassurance that I still want her and the marriage.

Later.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cold,
Your W does seem insecure. It is hard to tell - because you had two things going on at once - you were spending less time with her and you described yourself as grumpy. 

The combo might have made her think that it was - her. 

I say she seems insecure because when you mentioned that you wanted to improve your sex life to her, while out on a date almost a year ago - she jumped straight to "so you're done with me then". 

Seems like there are a few possibilities: 
- You generally don't seem "happy" with her, or when around her
- You actually are happy with her, but she assumes whenever you are tense/unhappy it must be about her
- This is something she "does" to shift the dynamic from talking about what you want, to completely focusing on what she wants - which is a very high level of relationship stability


You might want to think about something that is related, but somewhat different. In one sense you have an excellent grasp of what marital sex should be - a totally mutual experience. You don't want your W to do it because she feels obligated. Very healthy view. And ultimately - what you define as "good" sex is both people expressing desire for each other. What you wish to avoid is obligatory/pity sex where you are expressing your love and desire for her, and she is tolerating it. 

If however, you aren't careful, you will find that certain behaviors that completely lack mutuality throw "sand into the gears of the engine of desire". I think a long ago post rubbed you the wrong way - it was not my intent to offend, nor to suggest that you try to "force" your W to do anything by being "cold" to her. I didn't express it well then, so I will try to do a better job this time. 

There are certain interactions which are inherently one sided in nature. For instance, in many/most marriages groping is not viewed as a turn on, and is not treated as effective foreplay by the LD spouse. In a sense, at best they tolerate it. Even if they occasionally joke about it, if they never respond in kind, never grope back, never respond by kissing their HD partner, then what it represents is:
HD spouse: I am feeling desire, perhaps intense desire for you right now
LD spouse: I am going to tolerate your expression of desire. I may or may not smile, or laugh, or roll my eyes. But in truth I never respond because I rarely feel desire for you, and being groped certainly does not create desire in me. 

In a sexually strong marriage, where sex itself is frequent and fun for both partners, groping may indeed be harmless. 

In a low sex/sexless marriage (which I know you are not in now) it is a very different story. Because in that type of situation, you are engaging in a very "lite" form of pity sex. Meaning that, it isn't that much different than real pity sex in that you are expressing strong desire, and in one sense she is tolerating it. In another sense - just like pity sex, she is getting the reassurance that you still want her. Still love AND desire her. 

Even though I said that pity sex is lacking in mutuality. It isn't always totally lacking. The LD spouse may not feel/express desire, they do however get the emotional reassurance that the HD spouse still really wants them and that they are desirable. And/or they may feel that if they 100 percent shut down sex, the marriage might be at risk. 

So at the beginning I mentioned your W's insecurity. During the low sex time in your marriage, whether by groping or putting your face in her breasts, you were inadvertently sending her a message: I am ok with sexual interactions where I express my desire for you, and you either:
- Tolerate it or
- Enjoy the reassurance it gives you that I desire you (I think your night time routine is very much about this - since she encourages it. If you think about what she is encouraging though, it is for YOU to express your desire for her - full stop)

I don't think your W actually understands that the night time routine can actually be hard on the HD spouse in that it creates a sexualized vibe for a moment - with a sexually frustrated HD person - just before bed time. 

The long and short of this is: When your W felt deprioritized she quickly upped the sex to get you to go back to spending more time with her. When that didn't happen, she gradually got more anxious (and likely more angry as it may have felt like a type of rejection to her). 

All of this is to say that if you resume your prior schedule/focus on her, your sex life will likely regress to where it was. Perhaps you might consider resuming your former schedule, briefly explaining the whole one sidedness of your sexual behavior and your plan to eliminate it. 

I think you are going to discover something interesting. Your W is going to prefer you continue to do that one sided sexual stuff. It simply is the routine she prefers. Somehow you are going to have to seize the moment and get her to grasp that the anxiety/rejection she was feeling over the past months due to your lack of spending as much time with her - is the SAME anxiety/rejection you feel when your marriage is sexless at once ever 6-8 weeks. And that - since she just experienced how BAD that felt, you would expect some empathy from her on that front. Empathy does NOT mean she is obligated to have sex with you when she doesn't want to. It DOES mean that it would be VERY selfish of her to press you to continue the groping/other stuff that allows her to feel comfortable in rejecting you so often. 

Everyone is different. Me personally, I would not tolerate a situation where I was the only one initiating, and most of the time I got rejected. That dynamic is not healthy - it erodes respect - it just does. That doesn't mean she has to initiate, it does mean there either needs to be a schedule or she needs to let you know when she is "open" to you initiating. And "open" is not a game - open means if you initiate she will say yes. 



coldshoulder said:


> Over the last year, we have gone through a few changes in our relationship. I was complaining about the lack of sexual interest from my wife, I went through a position change within my company, my wife decided to make a career change herself, my family (sisters & parents) all decided to move to a different province about 9hrs drive away...so quite a lot of change in the last 7 months.
> 
> About 6 weeks ago, my wife seemed to take more of an interest in our sexual relationship again and I didn't think it had anything to do with me. She had made the decision to change careers and that made sense to me as a stress reliever for her (I was just happy to be on the receiving end of this benefit  ) She went through a few set backs with interviews, but landed a new job last week which was more great news...she was starting to get anxious about not having anything lined up for the end of the summer, which was her personal deadline.
> 
> ...


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## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but how much time & effort did you spend working/riding your bike? I think you said spring was when you started the repairs and that she told you she'd been feeling this way for months. Is it possible you got lost in the project?

Does she ride with you?


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

That's a logical assumption...wrong, but it does make sense...the length of the project was due to waiting for parts, not the time spent doing the work. No, she doesn't ride and has no interest in it. My daughter does but not my wife.

I still don't quite get where she was getting the "I'm done with you vibe", since we have been spending much more time together. The crazy thing about all this is, I am about to change my work situation again to working out of town in a camp situation (her suggestion??) This just has me kinda paranoid about there being someone else. But it would be very hard to hide it from the kids, so I don't really think that is the issue...but it's just very strange timing!! If Saturday hadn't happened, I would tell you that our relationship has never been better...sex is more regular, we hug & touch more...but now I feel like I'm waiting for the bad news...

I guess I'll just keep puting in the effort and if I feel things are "weird" I'll suggest MC...for now I have nothing to complain about...

Later.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Is there a chance she's fallen for someone at her new work place?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Nope, she doesn't start until this coming Monday...and her previous work place there were no men...and no, I don't think she has switched teams 

Later.


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## J Valley (Jun 28, 2012)

coldshoulder said:


> As for the being unaware issue, she said she didn't say or do anything thinking she would just make it work for the kids and the comfortable life we live...she says she still loves me, but just couldn't go on being so unhappy??? WTF does that mean? How can you be in love and totally unhappy?
> 
> I did ask her if there was someone else, saying that if there was we should find a way to stay civil and make life as smooth as we can for the kids...*but she said she had considered it*, but there was no one. (but how would she really answer this one?)
> 
> ...


These are my thoughts. She had someone in mind or was probably thinking of taking the next step with that someone. She was probably confused and undecided at that stage. BUT your response and your reassurance of your love stopped her from making that next move. Continue working on your marriage and show that love and affection.

I made the mistake with my ex when she said similar things. I told her I love her but because I was too focus on my career, my words were just merely that - only words, no action on my part. I guess she decided to take the next step by getting her desire fulfilled by the OM. Both are gone now.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

That's probably the closest guess that I could come up with...she did mention that she had thought about it, but not with anyone in particular (not sure I believe that totally, not really liking Twitter for that reason)...so, yup...keep up the effort.

Later.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Firstly an assessment.

Please look at this summary of "His Needs Her Needs" and based on it come back with feedback as to how well you think her emotional needs have been met during the past 10 years: 

His Needs Her Needs pdf free ebook download from www.sgtmarriages.com

A surprise like that comes only if there is a severe breakdown in communication between you two.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

FreedomCorp said:


> Firstly an assessment.
> 
> Please look at this summary of "His Needs Her Needs" and based on it come back with feedback as to how well you think her emotional needs have been met during the past 10 years:
> 
> ...


Free download that you have to pay to become a member to access...kinda SPAMMY if you ask me...no thanks.

We are going out tonight to hear our friend play and sing at the open mic...we'll see if she is warm or cold...we also have a date night planned for tomorrow. She suggested dinner & a movie, I said fine, but I want to go for coffee after. I do want to talk and find out what her expectations are. There is no reason to put effort in if she is going to drop the bomb again at a later date. I just don't want this to be a tool to get me to jump through hoops!!

Later.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Well, I would say the feeling last night was luke warm...but I had and still have a weird vibe from her...

I'm being such a wimp and it's ticking me off...I don't want to lose her, but I feel like I have been totally blindsided. I really want her to see these posts, but I don't know how she would feel about me openning up on a forum. So I'll just have to stick to talking to her myself.

We are meeting for lunch today and I really need to get a "progress update" from her perspective. I'm going to just be the best I can be and quit walking on egg shells...if it's going to work out great, if not I guess I will deal with that too.

Later.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I wonder if you two would benefit from an encounter weekend. I understand that the right one can be very rejuvenating to a relationship. Take a look the ones offered on the MarriageBuilders web site. I’ve heard very good things about the weekends done by Dr. Harvey.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Well, our lunch date was almost a huge disaster! I had errands to run and she was coming into town to do some shopping for office clothes (new job Monday)...thought it was an excellent opportunity for face time. She thought so too, but asked if we could have lunch around 1pm...no problem, I'll run my errands (buy some of the suggested books on my short comings...more on that later), then I'll meet her for soup & sandwich.

I finished my errands by 12:40...so I went and filled up the fuel tank, then found a shady spot to send a text. It's now 12:55, so I said I'm just going to go to the coffee shop & grab a soup & sandwich maybe we can grab lunch together another time (thinking that her day was maybe running late...no communication to meet anywhere in the next 5 mins.) I got to the coffee shop & checked my calls (I'm riding my motorcycle, can't hear it ring) and noticed that she had answered me within 2 mins saying that she was just leaving and could meet me...cool!

So I text her back saying I was at the closest one to her (easiest for her to get to on her way into town)...I waited a couple of minutes, then thought I would just order my lunch (in her email she had said we should meet at the one near the mall, but I was already at the other...so I didn't want to just wait)

As I sat down to wait, and was taking the lid off the coffee I saw her drive right by...I'm a little miffed (hurt really)...then I get a text asking if I'm going to answer...WTF??...damn technology anyway...so I said, not to worry...I just saw you driving by, maybe another time....then I got a response of "I guess I'll turn around..." I've now finished my sandwich, when she finally pulls in...but I'm glad she came. We make small talk for a while about her new job, then asks me if I'm excited...I said "Yup...tonight should be nice"...she looks at me confused, and says "what's happening tonight?"

Without a break, I said oh...you mean my new job, yes I'm excited! Can't wait for the change. (I start a new job on Sept 5th too) Then she picks up on the tonight thing, I hope you're not too excited...it's just dinner & a movie, I don't know if Batman will be that good (and she smiles at me)...my response is "the movie is your idea, I want too talk. We don't talk enough."

Then more small talk & a nice visit. Probably the closest thing to a casual chat we've had in quite a while and I really enjoyed it. Once we were done, she followed me out to my bike & said "see you this afternoon, love you" then I got a rare PDA...kiss on the lips!

I think it was a very positive step and I'm chomping at the bit to show her why she married me. The books I mentioned earlier are for me to improve myself. I've come to the conclusion that I am the man of her dreams...she doesn't know it yet because I just realized it today, I just have to be that man and let her figure it out herself. I don't think all the problems we are having are me, but I do think I am the bigger piece of the problem...change what you can & be the best you can be.

That's all I have for now...

Later.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I remember some of your earlier posts, and I'm glad to hear from you again, I wondered how you were doing!

(fellow canadian and all)

I don't know your wife, and can't say what she is really thinking.
All I can comment on is the whole 180 thing and "work on yourself" can backfire tremendously in some cases.

She may or may not see it as you detaching. Even though you were just giving her space to do her own thing, there is a difference between not being emotionally there and she can probably pick up on that. And it's possible she even clued in to the "sex breeds emotion" and tried that as a way to get emotionally closer to you.

Time spent together doesn't always equal emotional connection. 

And there is the point where sometimes a spouse (man or woman) kinda hits a wall and starts thinking about all the things they are doing to try and make their partner happy, and it doesn't seem to be working, and the feelings of "how long can I go along with what doesn't seem natural" start to creep in. 

That's that hard part of trying to rekindle something. Do A, B, C and you will fall in love again! When it doesn't work immediately, there is a lot of doubt there and one starts to think about their own personal happiness and whether that is included.

It's one thing to do things to make your marriage better.
It's another to do things to make you a whole person, achieve your own personal happiness.
When they don't match, it's cruel.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm not talking about doing the 180 and turning my back on her...that is what landed me where I am...I thought I was doing the right thing and giving her space...but I think it came across as dissinterest instead. 

I have to do some reading to see where I need to go, I just know I need to change how I operate. I thought I was doing the right stuff, when I was making her feel unappreciated & said I was treating her like one of the kids...why not just say I was being an A$$HOLE?!?

So I've realized that the "Man up" thing isn't to be a demanding jerk, it's to have integrity and stand up for what you believe in. And the "Nice guy" isn't the correct term, you can man up and still be a nice guy with standards. That's where I want to be, and will be. Right now, or up until last Saturday, I am/was a jerk who was a part time door mat...not a desireable trait!

Later.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

And I'm sorry but I can't help wondering something out loud.....
You have done a lot of things, and you still aren't doing them "right"? I have trouble with the generic "I'm not happy" statements. 

You are going out on dates, getting your own lives in order, lots of stuff has happened. 

Life isn't rosy everyday. Everyone has a bad day. You can't expect perfection in a relationship, but if things are better, then isn't that what one should focus on?

I guess I'm trying to say tread carefully on the slope of accepting you must change your behavior to "make her happy". Somewhere in there she has to find happiness for herself, doesn't she?

Don't you too?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> I'm not talking about doing the 180 and turning my back on her...that is what landed me where I am...I thought I was doing the right thing and giving her space...but I think it came across as dissinterest instead.
> 
> I have to do some reading to see where I need to go, I just know I need to change how I operate. I thought I was doing the right stuff, when I was making her feel unappreciated & said I was treating her like one of the kids...why not just say I was being an A$$HOLE?!?
> 
> ...


The 180 has nothing to do with turning your back on her. Not sure where you got that idea from.

It's about doing things 180 degrees differently from how you have been doing them. If you were ignoring her than you should start to pay attention. If you are smothering, back off. 

Yes there are some 180 suggestions around here (even I have one) for betrayed spouses who are going through an emotional time. The purpose of those is to help them handle a WS who has not agreed to no contact with the OM/OW and to reconcile. It's to help them handle the huge amount of emotional pain that the BS is going through while the WS continues an affair and ripping the BS's heart to shreds.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Well, at least there has been no betrayal...and I wasn't doing EVERYTHING wrong, just a lot of things...not a whole lot better, but better.

I picked up "the 5 Love Languages" which was suggested, and another that I found called "Save Your Marriage in Five Minutes a Day" I'll post up how I think they are...but I have some reading to do!!

Later.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

deejov said:


> And I'm sorry but I can't help wondering something out loud.....
> You have done a lot of things, and you still aren't doing them "right"? I have trouble with the generic "I'm not happy" statements.
> 
> You are going out on dates, getting your own lives in order, lots of stuff has happened.
> ...


Well, during our lunch conversation today she corrected me...she has felt this way for the past two years, not few months. She said that I had been making her feel insignificant and insulting her (not blatant "you're an idiot" insults, just the "I don't think you're good at that" type of thing...) and she has finally come to a place in her life where she is confident enough to say something...I'm glad she did, and it kills me that I didn't even know I was doing it 

I don't think it is a matter of me changing to make her feel better, it's more of a change to stop me from making her feel inadequate...so be a cheer leader for her a bit, but not a doting fool...

She is doing things for herself...taking a fitness class that is also a self defence class (our 13yo daughter has also joined), going over to her friends place on Tuesdays to sing while they play guitar (she enjoys singing and it is one of the things that I have not been a supporter of...one of my jerk items  )

And no, life isn't rosy everyday but it should be more days than not or life isn't happy...so I'm bringing roses...part of my role as a good husband is to not cause bad days, and I think that is where I have mostly been falling down.

I need to start seeing what I've got and appreciate it more, instead of always pyning for the greener grass and trying to change what I've got into something it isn't...if that makes any sense.

Later.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Deejov,
I think all of that is true. Something is just very OFF when your spouse's reaction to a situation is to be more intimate (which they very much know you want) with you for a month or two and then with no warning at all bring up divorce. 

It is possible she was showing signs of frustration for an extended time and he just missed it. I am starting to think that all these cases where the woman says: He doesn't really listen to me, and the men say I absolutely do listen - are a case of two completely true statements. Either the classic mars/venus dynamic, or a case where one spouse relies on a lot of non-verbal communication and the other doesn't pick up on it. 

It is possible that is happening in this case. Also possible that she has a hard time being assertive. CS doesn't post much - but if he is accurately describing things - she brings up the idea of divorce without any warning, which is an incredibly aggressive thing to do. The fact that she sometimes uses the "so does that mean you want to D me" doesn't make it any less aggressive. 

This is a case where MC might help a lot. There has to be a reason she gets so aggressive seemingly so quickly. And either MC for them, or MC plus IC for one/both of them should bring that up. 

There is something "physically" broken as well. He says he wants more sex, makes sense it was pretty much a sexless marriage for a long time, and her immediate response was to talk about him wanting a D which is a fairly common type of reaction (trying to change the subject/destabilize their partner) from the LD spouse in a sexless marriage. 

Finally she ramps up the sex, when (he) stops chasing (she) perceives him withdrawing. She knows he likes that, my guess he was clearly happy with that change. But there is a world of difference between asking someone if they are unhappy and telling someone with no warning you are thinking about ending it/selling the house and it is all their fault for "acting indifferent". Because that really was the theme. And maybe he was. 

The thing an MC can help with is: A lack of chasing is totally different than rejecting. If she was saying "do you want to do X with me tonight?" and getting "why don't you go read your book" - that is easily perceived as rejection. If instead he simply did his own thing, but was available if she wanted to spend time together, that is different. That is an absence of chasing - not the act of rejection. 




deejov said:


> I remember some of your earlier posts, and I'm glad to hear from you again, I wondered how you were doing!
> 
> (fellow canadian and all)
> 
> ...


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I commented on this from my own personal experiences (of course), and I've done a similar thing in my own relationship as the wife.
In my case though, my H is very passive aggressive. 
Meaning does not take steps to make things better, simply pretends to be happy with how things are, spending little time together, comes across as he's perfectly happy to do solo things, but the bottom line is this:

_He tried to do A, B, C because he thought that was what I wanted. He never once came right out and asked "Are you happy"_

From my perspective, I was the one who also brought up the whole "are you even happy" speech, and it hit a raw nerve that he never even asked me . I took that as extremely selfish. And spit out the D word. Again. 

So that puts one in the situation where no matter what a person has done, it seems fake. Especially if they are grouchy or don't seem at peace with doing things you asked them to do. (go on dates, do things together) and it can spin into this whole concept of being miserable trying to please your partner.

It comes down to this (for me, personally)

I am okay with me. I am happy to do things to make my partner happy. I get more satisfaction from giving than receiving. 

My partner is miserable doing things for me. He doesn't want to change, and that's okay. I want him to WANT to understand that giving is the point. 

It's fake if I have to say "do A, B, C". Because that list of things will never end. I will always think of something as an excuse for him to do, something to measure him against as a reason for me being unhappy. And he will do the same to me.

It's about being with something who does get 'it'. Someone who will think of me first, because it's the unselfish thing to do. 
And because it's how I want to live, too. In life. 

That shows itself in someone who will actually ask "are YOU happy", not keep score of all the things they have done for me and keep a list of things I need to do for them. 

And I will take responsibility and answer honestly to myself and do things that make me happy. I don't want to be catered to. I want to GIVE of myself and have a partner that is emotionally able to receive. 
A detached partner isn't one who is able to do that. They are going through the motions. Going on dates. Having sex. Doing A, B, C. One could take huge advantage of that situation. And I have, in the past.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

From the husband perspective, I thought things were going along pretty good so I never thought to ask if she was happy...why would I, the sex life was ramping up and life seemed pretty good from my view? But I think because she wasn't happy, she thought that there was no way I could be...but you have to remember, most men (definitely me) aren't very good at picking up subtle hints...if you want me to know something, you had better say it. Hinting will only frustrate you further!

Last night went much better than I expected. The movie didn't start until 10:20pm, so we had a bunch of time to chat...we had a nice meal and talked for about two hours...laughed, smiled, held hands and she is starting to accept PDAs which is something that always made her feel uncomfortable. I hope she isn't doing it and still feeling that way (I'll have to ask, I guess) since I don't mind everyone knowing that I love my wife. When she would act embarrassed, it would always make me feel like she was ashamed to be seen kissing me...not a good feeling, so I stopped even trying. (another thing to talk about...)

Then at the end of the night, on the drive home...she reached over and held my hand all the way home on the drive...silly, but it's the little things...so I smiled for the half hour drive home! No nookie, but there was no expectation of any...just a nice evening out.

Later.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Went out again on Saturday night...I think I failed a "Fit Test"...had some beer, and had a good time...wifey also had a few drinks and had a good time, but she seemed a little distant for a while just before bed...maybe I made some off colour jokes ( ??? ), but it was with close friends that we tease back & forth...maybe I assumed too much verbal freedom and teased her about a sore spot?? We went golfing this morning with the same couple. His wife was a little hung over, and I think wifey was feeling a little rough too...it was my first round this year, so I was glad it was at a Par 3 - 9 hole course...nice start...wifey seemed to enjoy it too...I'm not an avid golfer (obviously, first round in mid August?), but I wouldn't mind finding something that we both enjoy.

I've got a few things that need to get done today, so I'm working on that...online upgrading of safety tickets, woohoo huge fun...anyway, I better get back to work...

Later.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm glad you had a good weekend, and relaxed enough to enjoy it. That's awesome!

And yeah, not communicating what is going on doesn't help anybody.

If I was in your place, I wouldnt try to overanalyze everything she does or says. I would focus more on getting closer (like you are doing) so that she is comfortable enough to open up to you about what is really going on. That might take some time. 

It's not a fun life to be second guessing yourself at every move. But it does sound like she is emotionally getting there.. the hand holding sounds positive!


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Yeah, I think I need to just relax a little...I'm reading into every mood, but with her starting a new career (this morning actually) I'm sure that our relationship isn't the only thing on her mind...she is nervous about taking a step in a different direction, so I just need to make the changes that I have recognized to better myself and I'm sure she will get over her butterflies about the new job quickly enough...then I start work out of town in September, I leave the evening of the kids first day back at school...

Crappy timing, but change doesn't always follow your schedule...I'm sure we will work through this, I just have to treat it like we are dating...and really, why wouldn't I always treat her that way? 

One thing I have learned over the past few weeks is that you should always be trying proving that you were "the one". I think that is what I have lost, so I have to work on proving that again. Otherwise your significant other may start to rethink their choice, and yes it does go both ways...but right now it's me trying to impress, it's a very unsettling feeling knowing that they are wondering about thier choice in partner.

I think we all forget from time to time that a relationship takes work, whether it's a friendship or a partnership, if you don't put effort in to maintain it you will start to drift apart...and that is what has happened to me, I knew we were drifting but I hadn't noticed how far apart we were...no more drifting!

Later.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

She only gets a half hour lunch, so I'm going to meet her at her work today...spent her half hour yesterday texting back & forth, so good progress...I'll just take my lunch to match up with hers, it's only about 5mins away...

Gotta take advantage while I'm still working in town...

Later.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I would download or buy "The 5 Love Languages" by Dr. Gary Chapman. It doesn't sound like you two don't love each other, quite the opposite. She seems to be reaching out to you for love but, as the book talks about, her love tank is empty. You love her but you're not speaking in her language (the 5 are words of affirmation, gifts, quality time, acts of service and physical touch). 

I would HIGHLY recommend getting the audio book and listening to it WITH your wife. You both need to figure out each others language. It doesn't sound like she completely speaks your language, but enough to keep you "mostly happy".


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

I just bought that book Friday, but I haven't had a chance to read it yet...it's been pretty crazy for the past few days, but I will be taking the time to start reading it tonight. Plus I am off Thursday and Friday this week (probably taking my kids camping, so I'll have plenty of uninterrupted time)

I also bought another book, "How to Fix your Marriage in 5 minutes per day"...or something like that...I will read it after the five languages, which another customer in Chapters suggested...I think she just went through an issue with her marriage and saw me looking at the relationship books. I thought it was nice of her to help me out.

My wife is an avid reader, so I'm sure she will read it as soon as I am done...and it will take her 1/3 the time too...


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

I finished reading the Five Love Languages on Friday...wow, I wish I had read that when we were dating...

I can see that our lack of sex was caused by me not "speaking her language"...she says that she has not felt loved in two years...but it was probably two years ago that her tank ran empty...I can't believe how our communication has been so bad and yet we have been together for 20yrs...if I would have read this book or had this info back then our relationship would be much, much different today...

Oh well, nothing I can do about the past...but I know what to do about my future...and she is in the next room smiling because I took the advice of the book, or at least I have started...we went out for coffee tonight and had a pretty open talk about all of it, some of the conversation was a little uncomfortable but that is to be expected...I found out more of how she was feeling tonight, and I have been an ass...I explained about how I was going to make changes to my actions...for now it's words, but I can start making the changes right away...Sunday evening I will start, I have other commitments that cannot be changed for Sunday morning...but at least she knows that I understand where the changes need to be made. She doesn't want to read the book, so I explained about the languages...I'm sure she thinks it's a little hoaky, but as long as it helps me understand...

She's an "Acts of Service" person, and I'm a "Physical Touch" person...so every time I ignored or didn't follow through on a promise to get something done around the house to help out, she started to feel neglected, so she would not feel "sexy" and not be in the mood...and every time she would be "not in the mood" it would be quite a knock to me...and I would get more bitter about performing her requests...vicious circle...

Now I know you are all thinking that "yeah, every guy is a Physical Touch person..." but for me, it's about the hand holding, hugs & kisses as much as it is about the act of love...and when she was not in the mood, she would not want to even be in the same room...never mind cuddle...

No wonder I was so blind sided when she was telling me that she wasn't happy and that she was surprised that I was...she had upped the sex in hopes of helping, which for me was working and I thought things were finally getting better, but I wasn't "filling her love tank" so she was still feeling totally unloved...I'm such a dork!

Anyway, thank you all for recommending the book...I have a feeling that it will be a huge part of me saving my marriage.

I'll let you know in a month how things are...I'm doing the monthly (actually every three weeks, my new work schedule...) "Do you hear me now..." test...I just want to make sure I am pushing the right buttons and not still forging on in the wrong direction...

Later.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

I now know what I need to work on to let wifey know I love her, but I also need to work on my social skills...

We went out last night to see our friend play at the local pub/restaurant, which is our usual date night...but I was a total stick in the mud...I've always had trouble making small talk with people that I don't really know or have much in common with, but last night was terrible. I think because there is some tension between me and my wife I was a little quieter than usual and she probably was too...but wow, there was a lot of silence...it felt awkward and I knew it was me. My wife tried to deny it by saying it just wasn't a good night and that she wasn't feeling it either...but after asking her to just be honest with me, because we couldn't fix it if we aren't open and honest with each other...she admitted that yeah, I brought the mood down...still insisting that the crowd and mood in the bar didn't help, but I should be able to talk with our friends more easily...another thing that I need to work on...

I'm trying to figure out why the hell she actually picked me...I've always been a wall flower, but I now know that she really wants someone that is more interesting and out going...and I want her, so change I must (yes, a Yoda moment...)

But in reality, both problems are the same...communication, I'm terrible at it...so I will have some work to do...learning to make small talk and learning to speak her love language. It's a little strained in the house this morning, but I'm sure we will work through it...I just hope that she notices my efforts and doesn't think that I am slipping into my old self (I used to drink to be more out going...not a great strategy and it will not happen again...been there done that)

Anyway, I just needed to get this off my chest...still think the 5 Love Languages should be mandatory reading when you are 15...just sayin'

Later.


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## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

I second the advice of asking your wife to participate in your learning process! 




coldshoulder said:


> I now know what I need to work on to let wifey know I love her, but I also need to work on my social skills...
> 
> We went out last night to see our friend play at the local pub/restaurant, which is our usual date night...but I was a total stick in the mud...I've always had trouble making small talk with people that I don't really know or have much in common with, but last night was terrible. I think because there is some tension between me and my wife I was a little quieter than usual and she probably was too...but wow, there was a lot of silence...it felt awkward and I knew it was me. My wife tried to deny it by saying it just wasn't a good night and that she wasn't feeling it either...but after asking her to just be honest with me, because we couldn't fix it if we aren't open and honest with each other...she admitted that yeah, I brought the mood down...still insisting that the crowd and mood in the bar didn't help, but I should be able to talk with our friends more easily...another thing that I need to work on...
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks, and we are working on it...I just have a lot of damage to reverse...hopefully it won't take the equal amount of time to rectify.

Later.


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## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

coldshoulder said:


> Now it is back to normal, but is it really? I'm so unsure of where everything is, I don't know if I should just continue on *assuming that she just needed confirmation that I still want and love her*...or is there something nasty and scary coming down the road that I'm too blind to see???


I think you nailed it there. I'm surprised you only get this talk 20 years into your marriage. I get it about once a year from my W and basically a reality check for both of us. 

I was almost going to say it's part of the monthly cycle.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

People change over the years.... the wallflower is good when you are in the honeymoon stage and want to spend all your time together, and you are tired from loud kids and a loud job.

Hitting middle age is a process in itself. Finding yourself with more time as an adult, and reflection. 

You probably aren't the same people, really, that you were 20 years ago. So I would say it's never too late to clue in.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

@TheHappyGuy...I'm glad she decided to talk to me about it, even though it caused me to freak out emotionally for a while (not at her, more internally...but did make me clingy with the blind side thing) She does seem to be quite a bit happier now and when I talk to her she says that she has noticed my efforts and isn't questioning my feelings toward her anymore.

@deejov...I agree, I don't think either of us are the same person...and part of her was worried that I was looking elsewhere (this has come out in a couple of conversations) with me loosing a bunch of weight in the last year and her friends commenting on my "New Look"...I think she was feeling insecure, and with me being grumpy half the time...she was thinking that I was taking the complements from the other women and letting it go to my head...not the case at all, I think my wife is a HOTTIE and I do tell her that often...but my actions were saying something else, so my actions needed the wake up call...

My new job should help with the lower stress, which I think was part of my problem and it will also help with my confidence level at work...going back into the field, instead of management...more money, lower stress but away from home (I'm writing this from camp as I type...)

Later.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

It's amazing how much your job can affect your mood. You remind me of my H.... he suddenly became Mr. Happy when he found a job he liked. (so far) and it made a huge difference in our relationship.

I hope things continue to go well for you both, 
I do the camp thing myself about 8 working days out of the month, and I have to admit I like my job better that way. Get up, commute 2 minutes to the plant, work 14 hrs a day, but it's focused on work. They feed you, clean your room, and you really feel like it's work! My only advice on that is to make time to call home everyday. The home spouse can feel left out, and they can get lonely and overwhelmed with the house while you are gone


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

FWIT, I too feel she is feeling unloved and insecure. Sometimes the reason for this can come from within a woman herself, rather than, or as well as, from the husband. 

Is she generally a self-confident, empowered type of person? Was she like this in the past, but seems less so now?

Also, could it be that she feels you take her for granted? If yes, she may have felt she is being pushed away and feel unimportant.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

@deejov...I've been here two nights so far and talked to her both nights...we are setting up Skype for tonight to see how that goes...I don't want her to feel that way again...

@Advocado...I think it was a little bit of both...after my weight loss and getting the attention, she started to feel insecure...then with me feeling unloved myself, I started not approaching her to see how long it would take her to move toward me...that made me grumpy along with stress from work...bad combo...I'll admit that I was being immature and grumpy/short with her and it was mostly me not dealing with the stress well, but it was also the stress of a low frequency sex life...sometimes going as long at 10 weeks...that is much better now, not great but much better...and my attitude has changed quite a bit as well...mostly because of the conversation we had, but also because of my work change...

But now I am feeling disconnected from her, and I am wondering if being in camp now is the best timing...

Later.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

So you know she is very vulnerable right now with you being away, so I agree now is not the best timing. But is there anything you can do about this???

It's interesting what you say about you pulling away to see if she will draw closer to you. I would guess a lot of couples do this sort of thing but the trouble is only one partner knows what the game is (naturally) and the other person can just end up feeling rejected and hurt, plus if they are too proud to blatently draw close to a partner who is pulling away from them - well, I guess it can only lead to strife. 

Not saying I don't understand why you would do this - lots of us do it, even unconsciously, but it's risky. 

If anyone has any words of wisdom on this, I'm all ears.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

For me, it was more of a test to see if she really cared that we weren't having sex...and she didn't, but what I didn't realize is that she didn't want sex because I wasn't letting her know how much she meant to me, other than wanting sex...she didn't feel that I was attracted to her, or that I had any love for her anymore...hence the "so are you done with me then..." comments that she made, and I wasn't clued in enough to get the "I don't know how you feel about me and our relationship"...but I don't get subtle very well, never have...but I don't do subtle messages either, so if she was picking up subtle hints, they were not intended...

But now I at least know how she needs to be shown love...and imagine that, it isn't through groping and sexual advances...but now I realize that all that time that I thought our sex life was sucky, it was because my wife didn't get the message that she was number one in my life. I think she is getting the message now, but it is still fuzzy for me...

She seems to be addicted to Twitter...and is flirting on line...not blatant, and not trying to hide it...she says that everything she says on there is just a joke, but I have told her many times that I feel uncomfortable about it, and at this time when I'm feeling insecure about how she now feels about me...it kinda eats at me...I may be being a little over sensitive, and I don't want her to stop having fun...but the flirting bugs me, a lot...

She also wants to go to Vegas this November, but for me to go I would have to miss 7 days of work (because of how the shift and travel works) for one weekend of four days in Vegas, this would cut deeply into our household funds on top of the cost of the trip...so I told her this and thought it might not be the best time for us to go (our friends are teachers, so they don't have the flexibility to go on another weekend), her response is to see if our friends mind if just she goes...I don't like the idea of her going on a vacation like that without me, but I also know she has been talking to her friend about this for months and have got it all planned out...my recent change in work is what has caused this glitch...my old job was very flexible about taking time off, but with this one I get every third week off...that's it, other than time off at Christmas...

Anyway, I'm rambling on...thanks for the input and please keep the help coming...but don't try to tell me she is cheating through Twitter, that's not what is happening but it is making me feel uneasy...that's all.

Later.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

In a not combative, and not aggressive manner you need to ask your wife if she believes all her twitter 'ambiguity', is going to result in the type of marriage you two want. 

The rule of three applies to many situations. First time someone jokes about something they might indeed be joking. Second time there is a good chance they are not. Third time forward they are 'hiding in plain sight', behind ambiguity, and in this case using humor as the basis for it. 

A simple example illustrates:
Day 1: in the middle of a conversation about planning a dinner of pizza which is a food that you like. 
You: I really think we should try to eat healthier
Wife: asks some question about you being unhappy with her weigbt
You: claim you were joking and say 'I'm the one who likes pizza' 

Day 2: watching tv a commercial comes on showing a very fit couple running together 
You: (laughing). That sure motivates me to want to exercise more 
W: gets very quiet

Day 3:
You ask the wife if she wants to come to the gym with you - and typically you don't ask and she doesn't offer so this is an unusual request. 

She gets annoyed and says no. 
You: (sounding hurt).: a few weeks back you said you were unhappy we didn't spend more time together. It seems like I can't win.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

She hasn't done any flirty stuff on Twitter since I mentioned it again...I think she is trying as hard as I am to get back to where we were...she has been very receptive to my attempts to be more loving (no, not sexual) and has reciprocated...kissing more & touching me more...I'm really liking it, but now I'm in camp for 9 more days...she should be quite happy to see me, and I'm definitely counting the days until I get to hold her again...

Later.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

coldshoulder said:


> I'm definitely counting the days until I get to hold her again...


Maybe you could text her and tell her that.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Well, I just got off the phone...two hours...yesterday our conversation ended with her saying that she wasn't going to Vegas with our friends, because I wouldn't be available...today's conversation started with her saying that she was going to go if it was okay with our friends...

I kinda went into shock...I had been so relieved by the "I'm not going to go..." yesterday that I felt blindsided again...then I came clean about my feelings about the trip...quite a few months ago our friends were over (this couple and about 20 others) having a few too many adult beverages, and three of the wives were chatting about their husbands...mine included in the three...the one the trip to Vegas is with asked the other two if they would sleep with her husband...(I believe it was her way of asking if they found him attractive, not an invite)...anyway, my wife told me about this conversation the next day and she said it kind of made her feel weird...she even talked about it later that month, saying that she felt awkward around her or her husband...then all our marital issues came out at the beginning of August (to which I was oblivious...still feel like an idiot for not seeing it). During that conversation in August she told me that she didn't think I was "the one for her" any longer, saying that she had thought about ending our marriage and finding someone else. She said that she wasn't thinking of anyone in particular, but my mind went straight to that weird conversation...why did she feel weird around them if she didn't answer "yes" to the question?...

Anyway, I told her about my feelings about this and that I just didn't feel that we were in a good enough place in our relationship for her to go on a big trip without me...I didn't realize how jealous I was until all this started to happen...and her response was that she was troubled that I didn't trust her and that I thought that little of her...

I told her that I could understand why she would feel that way, and I would probably feel the same...but she had to understand that I was still trying to deal with the first blindside in August, and I am just not secure enough in our relationship at this point...I think the trip is just too close to the original conversation for me to be ready for her to go...I don't want to go anywhere without her, so why the hell is she trying to go on a trip like this without me?

It still bothers me that she sees it as me being controlling, when I see it as her not giving a crap...I didn't say it that way to her, but she said if it bothered me that much that she wouldn't go...I know she will be mad that I talked her out of it, but I think it would just put too much stress on an already stressed relationship.

Thoughts?

Later.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

I had a strange developement last night...I liked it, but it was out of character for her...we had some sexy texting, since I'm stuck in camp, and she actually took some "dirty pics" and sent them to me...which I reciprocated...it was very HOT!! but so out of character for her. I hope it is the combination of me being away and her losing weight and feeling more attractive...I am not going to complain about it, but thought it was strange since she wouldn't even consider taking pics prior to this...

She said it really got her worked up, thinking about how it was affecting me and that I was masturbating to her pictures...

This is such a roller coaster ride, but I'm enjoying this part of it!!

Later.


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