# Trusting your WS after R



## gdtm0111 (Oct 15, 2012)

Do any of you have issues of trust after you agreed to R?

I'm finding I still question her day to day attitude, check phone logs online, and an overall uncertainty.

She has her iPhone locked, which she states is due to work.

In this case I found a few phone #'s in the logs, one she texted at 5:20am. Then had incoming/outgoing calls to it 7 times one morning between 8-9am. Then no further contact with # since. I typed it into her phone one morning, since she forgot to lock it, but nothing showed up as one of her contacts.

I'm trying to let it go, and do 180. Also reading NMMNG. It's been tough.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

gdtm0111 said:


> Do any of you have issues of trust after you agreed to R?
> 
> I'm finding I still question her day to day attitude, check phone logs online, and an overall uncertainty.
> 
> ...


Almost 3 years in R for me and I wonder everyday if I can trust him again. I analyze every situation until Im going crazy. Things can be going good for a few days and all it takes is ONE thing to set me back and wonder what Im doing or why Im doing it. 

It never leaves you, maybe it lessens in time but it never goes away! Its a horrible way to live!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

gdtm0111 said:


> Do any of you have issues of trust after you agreed to R?
> 
> I'm finding I still question her day to day attitude, check phone logs online, and an overall uncertainty.
> 
> ...


It's so tough. I still check stuff sometimes (over a year later), but I, and you, have every right to feel that way.

Regarding that phone number, go to Intellius or Spokeo and reverse look up that thing. If it doesn't find the name, pay the $5 to get it. It will give you peace of mind one way or another.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

gdtm0111 said:


> Do any of you have issues of trust after you agreed to R?
> 
> I'm finding I still question her day to day attitude, check phone logs online, and an overall uncertainty.
> 
> ...


The trust doesn't come back, the pain doesn't go away and they never pay for their crime.

In your above case, why don't you just ask her. It's OK to let her know you still have trust issues. Transparency is a requirement for "R" and now she has to be transparent.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your trust will never come back if your wife does not earn it back.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

gdtm0111 said:


> Do any of you have issues of trust after you agreed to R?
> 
> I'm finding I still question her day to day attitude, check phone logs online, and an overall uncertainty.
> 
> ...


Trust can be MOSTLY earned back in R after a few years of total transparency.

Your wife isn't being transparent. If she wants R, she needs to give you the passcode to her phone. Period. 

R isn't about trusting your WS again, it's them EARNING trust back. How do you earn trust AFTER you've betrayed it, by constantly showing the BS what you're up to in full detail. If a WS doesn't do that, trust will NEVER be rebuilt.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> She has her iPhone locked, which she states is due to work.


She can tell you the password..

You can recover deleted texts too..


Iphone has various chat applications whose messages don't show up on phone logs


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> She can tell you the password..
> 
> You can recover deleted texts too..
> 
> ...


UUU how do you recover the deleted messages?:scratchhead:


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And do you have the complete details of her affair ? How did you confirm it ?


And based on your older posts you seem to have rug swept her whole affair.. I am concerned that you were trickle truther


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## gdtm0111 (Oct 15, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> And do you have the complete details of her affair ? How did you confirm it ?
> 
> 
> And based on your older posts you seem to have rug swept her whole affair.. I am concerned that you were trickle truther


I hate to say it, but I feel that I did let it go too easily.

As mentioned in other posts, all she says they did was kiss. Like that makes it any better than sex!


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

THere is a website called spydialer you can use to help fish out what that number is.

Been where you are, done what you are doing, yeah it sucks.

It sort of passes. Like some days I might see something and not care, other days I might see the same thing and it turns into a massive trigger with an anxiety attack.

Stick with NMMNG. It helps you focus on you. If you aren't so focused on her, a lot of this pain goes away. 

NMMNG also helps you come to terms with living in an imperfect world and co-existing with your anxeity.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Her locked phone is a big red flag!
I can't even begin to understand how you are allowing it when you are supposed to be in R.
Complete transparency is required. If she's not giving it, then she's hiding something!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

gdtm0111 said:


> I hate to say it, but I feel that I did let it go too easily.
> 
> As mentioned in other posts, all she says they did was kiss. Like that makes it any better than sex!


She's rug sweeping and minimising her actions!
That's why you don't trust her.
You only begin to heal and start trusting again when the WS owns their crap and is prepared to face the consequences.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

> As mentioned in other posts, all she says they did was kiss.


Don't

believe

that 

for a second.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Grey Goose said:


> UUU how do you recover the deleted messages?:scratchhead:


If iPhone is "synced" or backed up on a computer. Then text can be retrieved using iTunes.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

Nope. Still don't trust him. But what the hell is one to do when trying to R. I do not check up on him as much, but the attitude thing really is a trigger for me. I am always on alert if he is not happy then I feel that I am doing something wrong or that he has relapsed.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I am over 20 years out from my wife's EA (don't even think the term was coined at that time) and I will never trust her unconditionally as I did before it happened. I trust her more than I trust anyone else, but total trust is something that is never regained - at least for me.

Plus from what you have said you are not in R, she is still being secretive and hiding things. Probably still lying to you.

Don't worry about trust her at the moment. 

In your situation a lot of distrust is your friend.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

R sounds hard. 

I hope you all will find trust again.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

gdtm0111 said:


> Do any of you have issues of trust after you agreed to R?
> 
> I'm finding I still question her day to day attitude, check phone logs online, and an overall uncertainty.
> 
> ...


What nonsense. Does she work for the government and have some sort of security clearance? My H also has his phone passworded, but I know the password and he hands the phone over whenever I ask (and I check it whenever I feel like). Guess what? You stop thinking about checking when you can check whenever you want. That's when they have earned (some) of your trust back!

Also--what phone service does she have? We have Verizon and I thought my H's phone was on a work account, turns out they just pay him a subsidy in the paycheck. His phone is his (it has their software, but he pays the bill). So I went online and created an online Verizon account for it. Turns out all that took was his work email address because no account had been set up before online for the phone (no password, nothing!). It would send an email to her account that it had been set up, but if you do it overnight (when she's asleep) you'll have read everything in that account before she sees the email.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

*Lawdy lawd!*



gdtm0111 said:


> She has her iPhone locked, which she states is due to work.


Wat.



> In this case I found a few phone #'s in the logs, one she texted at 5:20am. Then had incoming/outgoing calls to it 7 times one morning between 8-9am. Then no further contact with # since. I typed it into her phone one morning, since she forgot to lock it, but nothing showed up as one of her contacts.


Can you connect the dots, or do you need help?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> What nonsense. Does she work for the government and have some sort of security clearance? My H also has his phone passworded, but I know the password and he hands the phone over whenever I ask (and I check it whenever I feel like). Guess what? You stop thinking about checking when you can check whenever you want. That's when they have earned (some) of your trust back!
> 
> Also--what phone service does she have? We have Verizon and I thought my H's phone was on a work account, turns out they just pay him a subsidy in the paycheck. His phone is his (it has their software, but he pays the bill). So I went online and created an online Verizon account for it. Turns out all that took was his work email address because no account had been set up before online for the phone (no password, nothing!). It would send an email to her account that it had been set up, but if you do it overnight (when she's asleep) you'll have read everything in that account before she sees the email.


I was about to ask the same question.About pass word on her phone. OP ,unless she works for the CIA,Federalreservere. Or some secret goverment three letter "company" her reason is pure nonsence. No matter what she says.. Dont back down on that.. Hold your ground,because from the looks of it. It does not look promesing.


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> Nope. Still don't trust him. But what the hell is one to do when trying to R. I do not check up on him as much, but the attitude thing really is a trigger for me. I am always on alert if he is not happy then I feel that I am doing something wrong or that he has relapsed.


Oh, this is so me. H has been a little non-communicative for the last couple of days. He has explained this to me, work & finance stress. 
Well, this morning I noticed his phone was not on the bedside table or his desk while he was sleeping. The phone has been a big issue with his EAs. The immediate thought in my head was that he was hiding it. Bam, the thought was there, no going back.
I had to go & check the history on his computer, nothing there. When he woke up, I asked him why his phone was hidden, he was astounded & said it was just in the pocket of his shorts, lying beside the bed & then he looked at his computer & asked it I found anything cause there was nothing to hide on there.
Thankfully, he acknowledges he brought this questioning into our marriage so he has to cop it when I need to question him.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Another rug sweeper.

Schedule a polygraph test. Then tell the WW the date for the test.

You need to put your foot down tell WW that she must be 100% transparent. WW gives the my job won't allow you to access ...... tell WW today is the last day she works there. 100% transparency. You will accept nothing less.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> The trust doesn't come back, the pain doesn't go away and they never pay for their crime.
> .


GOSH, thats such a horribly true statement!!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Bellavista said:


> Oh, this is so me. H has been a little non-communicative for the last couple of days. He has explained this to me, work & finance stress.
> Well, this morning I noticed his phone was not on the bedside table or his desk while he was sleeping. The phone has been a big issue with his EAs. The immediate thought in my head was that he was hiding it. Bam, the thought was there, no going back.
> I had to go & check the history on his computer, nothing there. When he woke up, I asked him why his phone was hidden, he was astounded & said it was just in the pocket of his shorts, lying beside the bed & then he looked at his computer & asked it I found anything cause there was nothing to hide on there.
> Thankfully, he acknowledges he brought this questioning into our marriage so he has to cop it when I need to question him.


Story of my life and then you feel like an idiot because you questioned it and it was just in his pants. I dont know how you feel after an instance like this but I feel stupid and feel like I make things worse. I know ultimately its not my fault but if Im paranoid all the time he's eventually going to get tired of it, right! Its like they screw it all up and we have to carry the weight of it on our shoulders every step of the way.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Tried 5 years to R then caught him in the beginnings of an EA so I left.

No, the trust never comes back. Ever. If it did, I probably wouldn't have caught the EA...


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## jay80_98 (Jul 14, 2012)

No you cant trust them, ever. trusting them is living in denial mabye they can try earning the trust back but it will never be and should never be what it was


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

staystrong said:


> R sounds hard.
> 
> I hope you all will find trust again.


R is very hard and the loss of trust is one of the biggest reasons that it is.

You will regain trust if your partner truly is in love with you and is willing to be totally open. 

But it will not be the same child-like trust you had. It will never be the total unconditional trust that was pre-affair.

An guess what - that is a good thing. A little skepticism is a good thing. 

Total trust means that you believe 100% there is no way in a million years that your spouse could or would have an affair and we all know that is simply not true.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Regarding her phone, if it's a company supplied phone then yes I can see why she would have a password on it. Most corporations set the phones up to be this way. The simple solution to this is for her to give you the password so you can check it whenever you wish and that whenever the corporate alert comes up to change the password, she gives you the new one. It's not like she has to worry about corporate espionage with her husband or anything (right?). If she refuses, then THAT is a huge red flag and you need to take serious steps.


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

jay80_98 said:


> No you cant trust them, ever. trusting them is living in denial mabye they can try earning the trust back but it will never be and should never be what it was


I have yet to decide if I want to give them the chance of R, but I would say I have no idea if losing trust is worse than losing that feeling I had of thinking I had the perfect man with me, the feeling of love, of a prince charming, of romance, that feeling of having him in a peddestal and now it is all ruined.

How do you dela with that?:scratchhead:


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

The only chance you have is if she gives you full transperency. No questions asked. I got mad at my wife for making me ask for her new password when she changed it recently. She apologized and gave me the pass.

Last week, I had a bad night and went through her phone in the middle of the night. We are 10 months post DDay. I did not cover my tracks, so in the morining she noticed. Her response-

"Honey, I am sorry you had a bad night and felt like you needed to look in my phone. That must suck. I wish I could take it all away."

THATS how a WS should act if they want to R. It took me being ready to D for her to see the light and come around though.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

True reconciliation takes quite a bit of work. It is an openly accepted fact (on this forum) that the WS has to do the heavy lifting during R to make it successful. What is rarely mentioned, at least I don't see it often, is that the BS has to do double duty most of the time. That is primarily why the WS should see R as the amazing gift that it actually is when it is offered to them by the BS.

The double duty comes in to play when dealing with trust. The fWS has to do everything in their power to earn trust. The comment above where the fWS says "im sorry you had a tough night, had to check up on me, and I wish I could take it away" is a perfect example (I've heard it on numerous occasions from my partner) of how a WS can help re-establish trust and love.

All that being said, at the end of the day, the BS has to trust and be vulnerable for R to work. If the walls are always up, the best efforts of the most well meaning fWS will be unsuccessful. That's why its double duty, as the BS has to verify the efforts of the WS and at the same time let the guard down to let their partner back in. R is harder than divorce, but when it is successful, it is beyond rewarding and satisfying. 

The trust may never be unconditional again, but it can certainly be restored to 100%


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## gdtm0111 (Oct 15, 2012)

1. Her phone is locked because she works in Insurance, and has customer information/faxes come into her phone.

2. SpyDialer is awesome! It gave me a voicemail of a number I had concerns about. Turns out, it's an older woman's voice. The OM had a secretary/receptionist that I thought my W had texted asking if OM was in the office. I'm considering calling the # asking if she works for said OM.


So yesterday W goes to the Post Office, and pays to have something shipped. Turns around to leave and the OM is standing there saying "Hello Mrs gdtm". She says she was shocked and didn't know what to say, and turned to leave. She said she wanted to cry after she got in her car, and wanted to call and tell me how upset she was. She met with her therapist yesterday afternoon, and they agreed she should sit down and tell me what happened. So after dinner, we talked about it.

Yet now I feel that I really want to talk to the OMW.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

gdtm0111 said:


> Yet now I feel that I really want to talk to the OMW.


Absolutely you should.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

texting at 5 am?
uh.
is that abnormal?
does she routinely text people that early?
as far as the number, tell her to call it. on speaker. with you standing right next to her.
any hemming and hawing...BIG RED FLAG.
then take her phone and back it up/sync with itunes (if an iphone).
i can give you directions to read the hex code from the backup that will show any and all texts made (including deleted and third party apps that do not show up in phone log or online...these are impossible to find any other way, much to my wifes dismay i knew how to find them).
and to the poster that feels "stupid" for freaking out about phone being missing (betrayedintx?)...NO WAY. and as another person stated, unconditional trust is why we all got bit in the a$$.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

slater said:


> The only chance you have is if she gives you full transperency. No questions asked. I got mad at my wife for making me ask for her new password when she changed it recently. She apologized and gave me the pass.
> 
> Last week, I had a bad night and went through her phone in the middle of the night. We are 10 months post DDay. I did not cover my tracks, so in the morining she noticed. Her response-
> 
> ...


my wife got mad at me a while back for looking, too.
she asked me "did you find what you were looking for?"
my response, "yes. i was looking for nothing and thats what i found. deal with it".
she seemed to understand that.
and like the other posters above, she tells me A LOT that she wishes it had never happened and that she would take it all back if she could.
mostly, i believe her. thats happening more often as more time passes and she is transparent and honest with me.
but i WILL NOT tolerate any more hiding or lying. period. ever again.
100% trust is possible i think.
blind trust they-will-never-hurt-me-its-not-possible trust?
no way that will ever be there again.
and thats okay, for me.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Did you verified her actual story about the A and Kiss?


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## Flexible323 (Jan 30, 2013)

I am going through the same problem. Everytime she goes to work in the morning and when she leaves home in the afternoon. Taking longer to get home some days and others she leaves late to work. But i am catching on just need to catch her in the act


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

gdtm0111 said:


> Do any of you have issues of trust after you agreed to R?


Lol. That's kind of like asking; are you suspicious of a shark's intentions after your leg was bitten off by one?

In my case, a year and a half into R, trust is just something I used to have. It's gone and will never come back. 

In it's place, I've found that the best I can hope for is a combination of three things.

- My wife's continued transparency and remorse.

- Regular (though now reduced) verification of her electronic communications

- A philosophical, resigned indifference; knowing that if she wants to cheat again bad enough, she can, no matter what I do.

For the BS, in my view, that's just part of the deal when one chooses to attempt R after trust has been destroyed.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

badmemory said:


> In it's place, I've found that the best I can hope for is a combination of three things.
> 
> - My wife's continued transparency and remorse.
> 
> ...


especially the bold. me too. and i also know that if she does, i cant stop her (obviously), but it is also somewhat of a relief to fully KNOW that if she does again, it wont matter because i wont be there anymore.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

naga75 said:


> especially the bold. me too. and i also know that if she does, i cant stop her (obviously), but it is also somewhat of a relief to fully KNOW that if she does again, it wont matter because i wont be there anymore.


I feel the same way. I even told my WH a few weeks ago that Im letting it go. Im not going to constantly worry and trying to keep it from happening by checking everything all the time. Its exhausting and even if you find some small piece that makes you suspicious its not enough unless you have solid proof. So its gets you NOWHERE! I told him he's gonna do what he's gonna do but that if I find out our marriage is over in a second....and this time.....I mean that!!


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## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

naga75 said:


> especially the bold. me too. and i also know that if she does, i cant stop her (obviously), but it is also somewhat of a relief to fully KNOW that if she does again, it wont matter because i wont be there anymore.


This philosophical indifference brings a tremendous amount of inner peace...and relief.


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