# How long to change a cycle of same type of argument?



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

We've been in therapy since September....almost 3 months.

Yet we find ourselves in the same cycles, similar arguments. 

We can go from lovey-dovey happiness to mutual annoyance and anger within minutes and it tajes WAY longer to get out of those funks.

When will we become more resilient??? WTF is our problem, and will we ever overcome this vicious cycle?
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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

credamdóchasgra

Please take a humble attitude, this is the only answer I can give. 

Just remember, it is him you want to win over. It is his heart you want to win over. 

Not an argument, not any arguments. 

He shouldn't be demanding of your respect for him, but if you take the initiative role and talk to him respectfully, he will treat you back the same way. 

He is your husband, not your competitor.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

i know exactly what you are going through. my h and i would go round and round. what changed was we actually started fighting fair.

we only talked about the one thing we wwere dissagreeing with at the monent. i cant say that happened that way all the time, and wwe had to give the other one permission to call out espically during the fight,- thats not what we are talking about-, or i will not talk to you until we get back on subject.

if you never finish the one argument, and it goes channe surfing, how will you finish it.

it always starts stupid: Did you leave your clothes on the floor? (of course, cuz you saw them) Yea, so what difference does it make if i pick them up now or later? (this is true, but you are going somewhere with this) Oh and the other nite you left the tilet seat up again!! (see, what happened) Would it kill you to look? (now hes in for it) Oh really, and you left dishes on th sink.AGAIN!!!! (now, how did we resolve the clothes on the floor.

that is what we call channel changeing. it is a horrible way to have important disscusions. nothing will ever be resolved if this keeps up.

have at it about the clothes. when there is nothing else to say about the clothes on the floor...takke a little break, get a sandwich, have a smoke. come back and bounce around some ideas. if its still too new, wait until tomorrow.

i hope this helps a little bit...
good luck...


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## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> We've been in therapy since September....almost 3 months.
> 
> Yet we find ourselves in the same cycles, similar arguments.
> 
> ...



If you haven't read these please do and see if they give you any insight, if not, please post back on how and why they haven't or won't work.

Making relationships work: The art of arguing

Get Her To Stop Nagging Also touches on opening up the lines of communication if you read it to the end and has some good examples.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I'll read up on those articles...at this point Id do anything for just a few weeks in a row without fights.
I can't change him so i'm focusing on changing my own thoughts into s heslthier direction and hoping it positively affects our dynamic.
We'll stick with therapy. Last night I was the one who couldn't keep my emotions under control, but I struggle constantly to make our relationship more positive and stable.
I love him and I won't give up, but I get discouraged.
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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

it can be very discouageing. but dont give up, as long as the both of you are working toward the same goal, it will work out in the end.

just remember to fight fair, and dont engage him when he starts a argument. be calm, breathe...a body cant argue by its self. just agree, oh i did forget that thing yesterday, im sorry about that....you cant go back in a time machine, so watch words carefully.

later when everyone has a chance to calm down, talk about what made him so mad. forgetting things about others sometimes makes them feel as though you dont care, or are discounting them as a person.

i hope you have a good day tomorrow. stay possitive


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Thank you.

@chefmaster, I'm open to advice wherever the source, so I read both articles.

My H and I do need to learn to "fight fair," but for some reason it has not been effective for us to decide together what that means. We have not been successful at sitting down together and figuring it out. I wish we could and maybe someday we will, but instead we've been trying to get to the root of *why* we argue in the first place, and work from there. My husband wants to "avoid arguments," (ironically, since he can be very argumentative). I know that conflict is inevitable, but I am willing to look for the root cause with him.

What happens is that our fights cross a line at a certain point, and we've been trying to keep them from escalating to that level...before we get to that point. Sometimes we succeed, many times we do not.

Also, in terms of "fighting fair"--I know I can set my OWN boundaries of what that means FOR ME, and make the commitment to stick to them MYSELF. I can make those lines clear to my husband in a loving way, and if HE crosses any of those lines, I can simply refuse to continue the argument. My hope is that those boundaries do become OUR boundaries, but that won't come from me pushing it on him. 

Instead of dealing directly with "conflict," our therapist is helping us build more positive communication when we're *not* arguing--such as the "dialogue process" of mirroring, validating, and empathizing. 

My husband never had positive models for dealing with conflict; he had a terrible model in his parents. They fought constantly, UNfairly, battled their own addictions, and he took on the role of mediator as a child. He desperately fears conflict, he desperately fears and does NOT want to be like his parents, and the way he expresses that fear is by clamping down harshly on the potential of disagreement in the hopes that it'll go away. 

We have talked about this in therapy, and he is open to learning alternatives to either being like his parents, or forcing "avoidance" of conflict.

I can see that fear in him, and it means the world to me that he's in therapy with me. He is very resistant to being "pushed" to change, but he's also open to learning and growing on his own accord. And love isn't pushy, so I have to approach this process with flexibility. If I want openness and respect from him, I'm going to have to give it first.

I don't think my needs or requests are unreasonable--e.g., fighting fair. But I don't think I'm going to get that need met by "fighting" for it. I hope that makes sense.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Are either one of you doing individual therapy?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Are either one of you doing individual therapy?


No. I did before we got married.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You may need to do some more.

What it sounds like is that each of you primarily focuses on how the _other _needs to change.

That's where the circular arguments come from.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Good point, but that's why I'm making a real effort to change my own part--thoughts, responses, etc.

For example: If to me "fighting fair" means not name-calling or cussing, then I need to stop doing that *before* I demand he stop doing that.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Good point, but that's why I'm making a real effort to change my own part--thoughts, responses, etc.
> 
> For example: If to me "fighting fair" means not name-calling or cussing, then I need to stop doing that *before* I demand he stop doing that.


Furthermore, if you are able to root out your issues and administer to yourself, your demeanor and tone will change - as will his responses.


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## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> My husband never had positive models for dealing with conflict; he had a terrible model in his parents. They fought constantly, UNfairly, battled their own addictions, and he took on the role of mediator as a child. He desperately fears conflict, he desperately fears and does NOT want to be like his parents, and the way he expresses that fear is by clamping down harshly on the potential of disagreement in the hopes that it'll go away. What happens is that our fights cross a line at a certain point, and we've been trying to keep them from escalating to that level...before we get to that point. Sometimes we succeed, many times we do not.


This sounds right on the mark and the root cause is the answer for sure because it's his interpretation of what he experienced with his parents that matters. Definitely at least one fear there, of something.





credamdóchasgra said:


> Also, in terms of "fighting fair"--I know I can set my OWN boundaries of what that means FOR ME, and make the commitment to stick to them MYSELF. I can make those lines clear to my husband in a loving way, and if HE crosses any of those lines, I can simply refuse to continue the argument. My hope is that those boundaries do become OUR boundaries, but that won't come from me pushing it on him


This also sounds on the mark. Precisely on the mark.

There is a concept at the post linked below that may help you in producing some of the results you mention.

Please keep in mind the post was suggested for a different situation, written harshly purposely for that post, was a response to a male, and is a concept that needs to be tailored by you for your situation. It may help some nonetheless.
reactions/responses to repeated behaviors during arguments


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

*Credamdóchasgra* it took my H and I four years to break our destructive argument styles. Four years. 

Its an unbelievably slow and tedious process. you pick up little bits of information here and there and try to incorporate what you're learning but it takes years for it to all come together and for the fights to de-escalate. You try to incorparate the bits and pieces but it doesnt all come together for some time. Occasionally you will have those "ah-ha" moment where you actually understand and can put together everything you're learning. It will finally all make sense and you'll really believe in what you're doing. Even then you are not there. I can remember two distinct "ah-ha" moments but it is one thing to understand a principle on a logical level, and quite another thing to understand a principle emotionally. 

Right now you're applying what you're learning on an intellectual level. you are starting to understand the principles logically, but you have yet to understand them emotionally. Your emotions are still working on a different playing field. Give it some time. Its a slow process.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

And this is why I post on this forum! 
Thank you everyone for your replies, they all are very helpful!
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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Thank you.
> 
> @chefmaster, I'm open to advice wherever the source, so I read both articles.
> 
> My H and I do need to learn to "fight fair," but for some reason it has not been effective for us to decide together what that means.


I don't know if this is the scene for you but for us it was to learn to accept that the other's point of view is valid and "right" even when we seriously don't get it. There is not more that is intrinsically RIGHT about my wanting sock rings on socks than his not wanting to put them on. There is nothing more intrinsically RIGHT about my wanting him to do the finances than him wanting me to do the finances. Once you stop seeing your PoV as RIGHT and see arguing as a means of making hm (or her for him...) SEE how right you are, the arguments can be about ... well I don't want to do the finances. Neither do I. What do we do to *solve the problem*...


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

hi...

the first step is knowingly making the decision not to keep going down a destrutive path. it took my h and i about 2 years to fully inact the "fghting fair" treaty. i was really young, and oprah had dr. phi on once a week, and there were about 4 couples, and they sounded just like us and all i wanted to do was turn it off.

but i just stood there and watched the show [i dont watch oprah] with the remote in my hand, and these people screaming at each other....

thats when i learned about fighting fair, stop placing blame, stop accusing, and to change my speech.

my h didnt know what to do the first time we had a argument, he just stared at me, and i said yes i didnt think about you or what you thought about my decision to do this, and next time i will think better....ok lets eat.

he didnt see wht i saw, we had seperated for a few months, and i took the time to fix me, and i kinda told him about it, but not really...the thing that makes this hard is husbands dont understand, and mine would get mad when i would not engage his need to throw different subjects into our argument, and i would simply not engage things that had no basees.

but after a short time we really got back to talking out things and i explained what i was doing and he said its a good idea...

and to this day we use it, we slip it and forget, but then we get back to it a day later and talk it out.

BTW: sorry this is off base, but how do you say your name and what does it mean????


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

My name is old Irish (Gaelic) for "faith hope love."
I had to change the spelling so it would fit as a screenname. I'm not really sure how to pronounce it.
I'm not Irish, but I love anything Irish, and I picked "faith hope love" because that is how I want to approach my life and my marriage! 
Thanks for asking 
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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I was wondering if it was some sort of position.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

A position?
I guess it kind of is...
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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> My name is old Irish (Gaelic) for "faith hope love."
> I had to change the spelling so it would fit as a screenname. I'm not really sure how to pronounce it.
> I'm not Irish, but I love anything Irish, and I picked "faith hope love" because that is how I want to approach my life and my marriage!
> Thanks for asking
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


that is really beautiful...when i first saw your name i just
stared at it and i showed my h and asked him if he knew
but i always wondered thanks for sharing


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