# New member, new problem



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

Hello, new to the group, and looking for some advice. I have been generally happily married to my wife for around 14 years. We have two children (9 yrs old). 
Around 4 months ago my father in law got very sick. Everyone thought he was going to pass away at any moment. My wife had hysterical bouts of crying and she would not even let me hold her or console her. After some time had passed, and her father was fighting to stay alive, she basically told me she lost interest in me. On top of this, she had been going through heat flashes and the beginnings of menopause which had made her a bit miserable. On top of this, she just got a double masters degree and a huge promotion at work and a huge raise, and pretty much doubles my salary now. I had been the bread winner for the first 6 years, then she took over. I helped her through the struggles of getting her degree and used to check her papers, etc. I was very happy for her, until all this went down. I recently switched jobs because i despised a position that I took and dreaded going to work. I took a pay cut (not that bad of a cut, but noticeable), but I am now much happier. She told me I let down the family by doing that, and she thinks I lost my drive. She might be right, as my last job really took its toll on me with stress and anxiety. She has her own issues at work with the pressure of her new increased role at work. Bottom line is there is alot of crap going on, and my wife cant stand me anymore, AND she started smoking, which she knows I also despise. I have tried to keep an open mind on this and we have spoken briefly about what is going on. The kids are first priority for both of, although I wonder what they notice. We talk decently to each other, but there is definitely an undertone of anger/tension, etc. I am frustrated, sad, beaten down. Her father is now doing better, not out of the woods, but better, and she is still cold. I dont know how much more time I can live with her hating me, and the thought of leaving sometimes makes me feel better, but the kids pull me back in. We dont do anything anymore, at least not happily. She stinks of smoke even though she tries to hide it. There is nothing good at all going on here. I have asked her to talk about it, and she is always "not ready" to talk. I just want my wife back, but I can also accept walking away because we might all be happier. How much time does a person give something like this? Any thoughts at all would be accepted with thanks.

Oh, one more thing...for 13 years I have handled the budget. She showed no interest in it. We generated quite a bit of debt, and have been on a five year plan to be debt free. We are in year three. It would be very difficult to sell our house as we are upside down. The sole source of our savings is a large chunk of money that I had been putting in HER 401k plan. It would be more than enough to cover the shortfall on our house and we both come out free and clear with a little bit left. Its not optimal. She blames me for our money "woes" because she wont listen to the overall timeframe. She just sees debt and goes nuts because she makes alot of money. Has no clue about finances, etc. Just throwing that wrinkle in....


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Well if I were your spouse and I heard you talking about our relationship that way, I'm pretty sure we would have issues too, not to mention that I'm heterosexual and we are both dudes. 

If there is any chance of sparking a romance and improving the situation you are going to need to be optimistic, find things to be thankful for, and try to be fun to be around. Then you will need to learn the timing for serious topics and how to stay positive while resolving conflicts. 

Other than that, life is messy and many couples have to manage the same issues you are dealing with, so I'll fuss at you and tell you that you are NOT special and unique by any means. Or I could spin that optimistically and tell you that you are not alone and ask if you want a beer, but unfortunately I smoke when I drink, so we are back at square one!


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

Hi BadSanta, Thanks for the reply. This sounds trite, but I never spoke about my marriage this way until my wife decided after 13 years to stop giving a crap. If your man told you that you needed him more than he needed you, how would you feel? Yep, that is what she said to me....as far as the smoking goes, 13 years ago when i was the breadwinner, I put a huge diamond on her finger. She told me she would stop smoking, and she did. Now out of the blue she is a militant smoker again. This is not a cig and a drink type woman, this is full fledged militant marlboros and come home smelling like an ashtray issues we have here, on top of pre-menopause, her father dying, and the litany of all the other issues noted. Its hard to be fun, but I am doing my best all things considered, but i think its human nature to have thoughts of how much better things could be without her terrible new traits taking over the house. She has just become a mean person, and after 4 months of this, I am losing my will because she does not seem to care.


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

MarlboroMan said:


> she basically told me she lost interest in me.
> 
> Bottom line is there is alot of crap going on, and my wife cant stand me anymore.


I thought you said it was a new problem?

Let me tell you a story. About 10,000 years ago, a Neanderthal wife got tired of being ignored except when her Neanderthal husband got horny. It was all hunting, hanging out with the boys, drinking, smoking and coming home late for a quick grope and screw. They he'd roll over, go to sleep and repeat the next day, and the next, and the next...

Then you had the first Walk-Away-Wife. But hardly the last. Since that moment 10,000 years ago when that Neanderthal wife checked out, approximately 68% of wives have done the same. You are excused in thinking that it is a new problem. We still treat it as such every time a guy gets left behind. But it's the same thing. Men don't give women what they want, women tell us what they want, men don't hear them, wives "walk. Rinse, repeat. Over, and over, and over. Men still don't know it's happening, women can't communicate the problem.

So go ahead and take all of the advice to "reignite the spark". Good luck with that. If I were you, I'd read up on the 180. Learn it, live it, love it. It's all you've got left.

She broke up with you. How many couples get back together after they break up? It's just a lot harder in a marriage because leaving is SO MUCH more "forever".

Good luck to you. Especially since I know you are going to ignore this post as coming from some crazy old coot. But I've lived it and have been reading up on it for years. Your marriage is over and you don't know it.

But then again, they don;t call it the FIVE stages of grief for nothing.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Have you tried counseling?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I wonder what her new boy toy at work looks like.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

This happened to one of my friends a few years back. A whole bunch of things were happening at the same time and his wife began to make more than he did. She started seeing other men and basically started acting like she wasn't married and finally said she wanted a divorce and that she didn't need him anymore. I'm afraid that's what's happening to you. I would start the 180 and start concentrating on an exit strategy for you. I don't think you will get her back and she seems dead set on leaving you. It might have been a big mistake to take the lower pay job.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Hello my friend.

First of all I think your father in law situation has nothing to do with your wife.
She was OK with your marriage and almost everthing was alright UNTIL she got good job and pay rise.

Now she wants to live like her friends at work,some high level $it and she does not see you as equal in your marriage. 
You told us she lost interest in you and trust me on this one,there is someone new in the picture,with high income and stuff like that. 

You dont fight for her,this is not 18th century and marriage will only survive if both H and W try their best.

She does not want to talk to you,she told you that. It seems to me that she turned her back to you.

Do 180 and maybe try to look at her emails or phone,because you never knew.


Sorry you are here


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Have you been to counseling? Is she willing to go? If she isn't willing to work on this relationship then it's over


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Now that she out-earns you and you've taken a pay cut for a better job, IMO she feels superior and has lost respect for you. It's sad, after you've done so much to support and encourage her in the past. Unless you can somehow regain her respect and take charge in some way, you are headed for divorce. 

(On the bright side - depending on which state you live in - you can get a good spousal support arrangement for having both supported her education which enables her high income, and because you have a long term marriage, that also entitles you to support given the income differential. So, if you end up divorcing, get your lawyer to push for everything he can.)


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

I tend to agree with you........thanks for the input


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

I asked her flat out if she was cheating on me and she laughed. She has gained 30 pounds during all of this mess with her dad and I think on top of all this she has low self esteem... I could be WAY off base on that and will probe more, but I really doubt she is cheating on me.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

I mentioned counseling, and she agreed to check it out. I dont know when that will happen, and after reading all this, I am sort of thinking it might not happen at all. Thanks much for checking in.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

I wont ignore your quote MachoMcCoy---I agree with it. I didnt think I was that way with her, but I guess I am. I always thought we were better than that. What a sad way to go out, but as you say, not the first one. I will check up on this 180 stuff. I am giving this whole mess a mental timeline and then taking care of business. There are still my wonderful kids involved, but I feel like I have a plan there too.......


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> This happened to one of my friends a few years back. A whole bunch of things were happening at the same time and his wife began to make more than he did. She started seeing other men and basically started acting like she wasn't married and finally said she wanted a divorce and that she didn't need him anymore. I'm afraid that's what's happening to you. I would start the 180 and start concentrating on an exit strategy for you. I don't think you will get her back and she seems dead set on leaving you. It might have been a big mistake to take the lower pay job.


Quite frankly I think it was wise to take the lower paying job if it meant the OP was happier. 

As for the wife not liking it? I am all for saving a marriage, but it is easier to be divorced than to remain married to a jerk.


----------



## BBF (May 21, 2015)

Curious, can you give a general description of your jobs? Some jobs are high pay/low status, i.e., diver oil rig welder, and; some are low pay/high status, i.e., lead singer in anything but a polka band. If she's a cube rat and makes money hustling penny stocks to elderly widows, you'll have more status if you work as a clerk at a Mont Blanc store. Status vs money is an important part of the equation and would help shape my advice.

Also don't discount the "boy toy at work" scenario especially if she's put on weight and has low self esteem. These ladies are the low hanging fruit for players. 

While pondering that; get thee to the best attorney in town and find out what your rights are. 14 years qualifies as a long term marriage and may qualify you for life-time spousal support, plus child support even if you split the time 50/50. In fact, if it's a small/medium town/county, I'd spend the money to consult with the five best attorneys and there by disqualify them from taking her as a client. 

Be nice, be helpful and be kind and you'll find out no good deed goes unpunished. 

I speak from experience.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Sounds to me like your wife is on a first class power trip. It's a shame that people can't get it through their thick skulls that in a marriage it's a combined income no this is all mine and you get none of it. 

She also has a short memory and doesn't seem to remember when you were the bread winner. Imagine if you did the same thing to her. She would have walked in a heart beat. Good luck to you.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Maybe I am wrong,but you should keep your eyes open. You dont check out of marriage just like that. Now that she got money and status she thinks you are not good enough for her and you are not her equal.

Also I think you made a mistake asking her is she cheating on you. Cheaters will never tell you the truth,they will put all blame on you,just like in your case. If she is not cheating maybe you could hurt her feelings just by asking that question.

Nobody is perfect and there in no perfect marriage and never will be,but you could make your marriage one of the best if both H and W try their best.

Search for her emails and phone records,look at her job and her "friends".
Stop asking her to talk to you and open herself,she is already checked out from your marriage.
I would never beg my wife to talk to me if she told me that she lost interest in me and has no respect for me.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

Thank you. I agree.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

@BBF, I am a mid level banker, range of salary 70k-85k. Wife is a VP at an insurance company. Base 125k, plus her bonus every year is at least 50k and now more with her new promotion. I was bringing in well over 6 figures at the beginning, then lost 3 jobs as the businesses shut down out units as the economy tanked. I know many of the people she works with. I guess she could be cheating, she is a very pretty girl, and now pretty high on herself as you said. I am saddened, but I agree with almost everyones assessments and I am going to be taking action sooner than later. I am now living the 180 (I kind of have been as I am not the mopey type). Now its time to make the plan. I dont think I am going after her money, other than half of what we saved together as that defeats my whole noble purpose....she thinks I need her more than she needs me. I make plenty of money to live well. I dont want a penny of hers. Thank you all.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Don't worry about the large 401K contributions btw, all marital assets in a splitup.


----------



## BBF (May 21, 2015)

MarlboroMan (henceforth to be called "MM") The idea of establishing spousal support for the lower paid partner is to protect your rights into the future and to establish a just settlement so that both are made equal. She was married to you just as long as you were married to her. Your pattern and style of living is what it is because of what you both contribute to the partnership. 

Aside from all that idealistic stuff, there's the practicality of it. If you give in to begin with, she'll ask for more, and if you give that, she'll ask for more. You've seen that she can turn on a dime. She probably has toxic friends advising her, "take him for everything you can." Do not doubt that she will take their advice.

(By way of example: I have a good guy friend who was divorcing his wife after finding her multiple affairs. He agreed to buy her interest in their house, but before the divorce finalized, an electrical fire caused severe damage. He paid from his pocket the deductible and other expenses. Then she refused to sign the settlement because as a restored house with new carpets, cabinets, etc., it was worth more.)

Get the best lawyer you can...check Martindale ratings, or just hire the president of the county bar association. Don't give up anything you are owed in some sort of grand noble gesture.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Keep posting, Marlboro Man. No matter what path this takes, it will get worse before it gets better.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

MarlboroMan said:


> @BBF, I am a mid level banker, range of salary 70k-85k. Wife is a VP at an insurance company. Base 125k, plus her bonus every year is at least 50k and now more with her new promotion. I was bringing in well over 6 figures at the beginning, then lost 3 jobs as the businesses shut down out units as the economy tanked. I know many of the people she works with. I guess she could be cheating, she is a very pretty girl, and now pretty high on herself as you said. I am saddened, but I agree with almost everyones assessments and I am going to be taking action sooner than later. I am now living the 180 (I kind of have been as I am not the mopey type). Now its time to make the plan. I dont think I am going after her money, other than half of what we saved together as that defeats my whole noble purpose....she thinks I need her more than she needs me. I make plenty of money to live well. I dont want a penny of hers. Thank you all.


You may not want a penny of hers, but don't say no to child support. You'll regret that.


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Except for the cheating issue, I agree with what everyone is saying. It seems as though she is disdainful. You don't want to remain in this position. I would stop trying to talk and just tell her that her behavior is unacceptable and that you won't stand for it. Maybe she does see you a less manly because of the pay cut. You can't change that. You can change the way you'll react to her, however. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MM, you are unfortunately facing a wife with a triple whammy going on. Menopause messes with women's heads. Her father dying or nearly dying might have her reevaluating her own life and finding dissatisfactions. Finally, it is common for women to lose respect or sexual interest in a husband who is the lower earner or a stay-at-home-dad. This last one is something we see pretty commonly here at TAM. While your job and income are very respectable, for some reason in her mind it may not be. Women tend to be wired for security and wanting a man who provides for and protects the family. When she becomes the one who goes out into the wilds to slay dinner it can kill her desire for the man.

You can try waiting out menopause. Talking about the relationship and dealing with the libido issues (increases or decreases) can help her feel more connected and less worried about your reaction to her becoming "old". Menopause means she isn't a young filly any more, which may make her worry you will leave her for a younger prettier sexier woman. I don't think women understand that for men it isn't a big deal. I still see my wife as the 19 yr old I met in college, not the 55 yr old she really is.

You should be as supportive as possible about her ill father. I would try to engage her in short conversations about how she feels about it, and if it is causing her to think about her own life etc. Idk what else you can do if she is reevaluating her life and coming up with things she regrets or feels unfulfilled with. It seems a lot like a mid life crisis.

The lower earnings really there isn't much you can do.

I think you're on the right track with a 180. You could try some MC if she'll agree.

With kids at home still, if it comes to divorce go for everything you are entitled to. In many states alimony is designed to level out the incomes. Add your two incomes, divide by 2, and that is what each of you gets. The length of alimony could be year for year, or some fraction of that. Perhaps it would be until the kids are out of the house. If you supported your wife through school, alimony might be based on some kind of repayment since she now earns a lot more as a result of your support. Your state may not award alimony. Child support is for the kids, and you should not feel guilty about taking it (though it should then be legitimately used for the benefit of the kids).

Talk to a lawyer about how things usually work where you live. Visit dadsdivorce dot com forums, and look for "the list" which gives many ideas on how to protect yourself and your rights as a father.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MarlboroMan said:


> I dont think I am going after her money, other than half of what we saved together as that defeats my whole noble purpose....she thinks I need her more than she needs me. I make plenty of money to live well. I dont want a penny of hers.


 That is your false male ego speaking. You should get what is fair under the law. You were covering for her at home while she was working and going to school. If the shoe were on the other foot, she would get every penny from you that she could. Worse yet is that after the divorce, if you discover that she was cheating on you while she was married to you, you will feel like a fool for letting her off the hook. Also, you will need that money for your children. The last thing that you want if for your children to feel that they need to turn to their Mother every time that they need money. In fact without committing to it in divorce court, take the all of the money that she gives you and stick it in saving that you can decide later to use for their educational fund or other such purpose; keep it at your discretion so that your children appreciate it more when you give it to them.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

All you guys have really great advice. Thanks so much! I agree its going to get worse before it gets better, and in my eyes, its only because of the kids, and the unwinding of the house and the financials. I didnt want to get into a pissing match over money, but it does sound like its the way to go. Totally agree about her money to me going directly to an account for the kids futures. Very smart guys!! THANKS SO MUCH!! I will be in touch with results as I take action. My desire to stay married to her is completely gone (As hers is for me), so we shall see how it all unfolds.


----------



## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

Are you wanting out? Are you done?

Those are questions I would ask myself, and her. 

My $.02: Smoking... I'd assume she started because of the stress with her dad. Let her have it without *****ing for a second, she seems like she is needing control in her life because she cannot control the situation with her fathers health. She is grasping at some kind of sanity and all she can control is her health and her income. Now she wants to control you. It's all a power play. If I were in your situation, I'd give her the reigns. Don't do a damn thing, let her control everything for a couple weeks, and then when she starts drowning in bills/kids/chores/work ask if she needs help and then HELP her. She might come to her senses and see a partnership is important. Just don't let her fail too long or she might resent you.

I know that this sounds like odd advice, but sometimes people think they want something until they get it.


----------



## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

MarlboroMan said:


> All you guys have really great advice. Thanks so much! I agree its going to get worse before it gets better, and in my eyes, its only because of the kids, and the unwinding of the house and the financials. I didnt want to get into a pissing match over money, but it does sound like its the way to go. Totally agree about her money to me going directly to an account for the kids futures. Very smart guys!! THANKS SO MUCH!! I will be in touch with results as I take action. My desire to stay married to her is completely gone (As hers is for me), so we shall see how it all unfolds.


Sorry! This is what I get for not reading EVERYTHING.

Good luck, sir!


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry your wife turned into a selfish, snobby, entitled ashtray.

Maybe having her served will give her the wakeup call your marriage needs.

Maybe not.

And do not be a knight going through this process. All that will happen is you will fall on your own sword.

Instead, get a fair, equitable division of property and cash that can be put towards your kids.

HM


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> Sorry your wife turned into a selfish, snobby, entitled ashtray.


Wow. When HM cuts, he cuts deep.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Wow. When HM cuts, he cuts deep.


Was it the word ashtray?

:grin2:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow. So 3 days ago you were trying to figure out your marriage, and today you're done and divorcing? Maybe you ARE part of the problem.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> Wow. So 3 days ago you were trying to figure out your marriage, and today you're done and divorcing? Maybe you ARE part of the problem.


 In the first post on this thread the OP posted that "I dont know how much more time I can live with her hating me, and the thought of leaving sometimes makes me feel better", and that "I can also accept walking away because we might all be happier". I thought then that the marriage might be over. So the idea of the OP being done was not new after 3 days.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

That is how I see it too happyman....I am a realist, and I certainly have my own faults, but I would never turn to smoking as a crutch. I dont want the kids to be around it and I dont want it in my life in any way. Ashtray is a term I used before, but does not work. I dont see her ever quitting again after all of this. I will not be married to a militant smoker.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

@ Try...this has been going on for probably around 4 months. She stopped showing affection and got pretty distant. I chalked it up to her having heat flashes and premenopause and gave her space. Then her fathers illness hit. I tried to hug her to console her, and she would not let me. Thats when I knew it was more. Then it came out how she resented me for leaving my old job where I was completely miserable. (By way of background, I took that prior position through a friend who ended up being my boss. She told me I was going to be the highest paid person in the dept. She held that over me on a daily basis and made my life miserable. Being professional, I stuck it out for a year and a half.. I would drive to work in a stupor dreading what was going to happen. The stress level was more than I EVER dealt with, and I NEVER felt anything like that before during my 20+ years in the industry. I had to get out, and the new job came at the perfect time. It was only a 10k pay cut for me to be 100% happier. At that time, my wife told me to do it, so it blindsided me when she told me this was her issue). To finalize matters, she told me that I needed her more than she needed me (financially). That is where I checked out and knew something had to happen. I have been running it around in my head for quite some time now. So, @ TRY, its been way more than 3 days. This group has made me wake up and realize the roots of the issues. I barely speak to my wife anymore as its just easier. Everything I do now is scrutinized. I offered up her taking over the bill paying, she doesnt want that, so I now feel like her secretary. All this mess needs to come to an end soon. I dont see how I can get past this, and my wife does not seem too concerned about anything other than herself right now. Oh, and to top it off, my mother was just diagnosed with a malignant tumor in her colon. The hits just keep coming.


----------



## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Both my parents were smokers, and when I was growing up, America was just coming off the period of smoking being cool. We used to watch old Perry Mason reruns, where smoking was glamorous, and even Ronald Reagan advertised cigarettes. But as I came of age, I didn't smoke, drink, or anything else. When I was in college I joined some friends for a drive to neighboring state for some beer, and they passed a joint around and I almost had no idea what it was (yeah, sheltered life) but I didn't take it. I knew that there were addictive personalities in my family. 

But when I was an undergraduate the second time, in my late 20's, and I was sent abroad by my Honors program, with bad information (like, you won't need much money, your hosts will take good care of you - NOT), I realized that the people who smoked handled the stress a lot better than the people who didn't. So I smoked while I was abroad. When I got back, I quit, and for a few years, I was a social smoker, and would have a cig or two in the pub with a beer or two. I finally stopped that altogether as well. 

But it stood out to me in a huge way that the damn cigarettes actually DID relieve the stress of being in a foreign country using a language I was nowhere near fluent in, but just capable of functioning. Sometimes life and stress is like that; you're in a situation where you're just capable of functioning and there's no language to tell your loved ones what the hell is going on with ya.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

Thanks for your opinion TeddieG. I work in a very stressful industry and have for many years. Many of the people smoke. I always thought just the opposite of you as it seems that the smokers always were the ones who never got their work done, or had issues at home, or other types of personality issues. They also always smelled when they came back from their multiple 20 minute breaks. My wife was a part of that crowd 14 years ago before we got married. She was a militant smoker. I remember her hanging with the outcast smoking crew thinking how pretty she was and its a shame she has to be a smoker and how it would never work out. One day we started talking and I realized we really hit it off. At the beginning the smoking didnt bother me, but when the realization came that I was falling for her, we had a very heated discussion about smoking. She didnt want to quit, but said she would do it for me. In a joking (yet serious) manner she said her ring had better be platinum. We went out and I got her a platimum/diamond ring to her liking and within a week she was smoke free. She got her teeth whitened, her skin looked better, she didnt stink anymore, and things were good. Did she sneak a smoke over the past 13 yrs? I am sure she did. But things were pretty good. Then we got preganant and had two at a time instead of one which threw us for a loop both mentally and financially. I did not handle having little ones very well, and frankly she was not all that great either. She is not the mothering type, and we were both full time high level employees under lots of pressure. We spent TONS of money on daycare (x2), and got crushed in the 2008 financial crisis. Still she seemed to be a non smoker. It never really came up. I told her how proud of her I was, and she would snidely comment that she wished she could smoke again. I had a feeling it would one day happen, and that day is here. This is about 20% of the overall issue, but its more symbolic of how things have gone for us. Up in smoke.....so sad.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MarlboroMan said:


> @ Try...this has been going on for probably around 4 months. She stopped showing affection and got pretty distant. I chalked it up to her having heat flashes and premenopause and gave her space. Then her fathers illness hit. I tried to hug her to console her, and she would not let me. Thats when I knew it was more.


 There may be someone else. It could be difficult to detect because at this early stage it may be at the pre-affair stage, where she they have identified the connection with each other, but have not launched into a full on affair. 



MarlboroMan said:


> Then it came out how she resented me for leaving my old job where I was completely miserable.


 When they want to find a reason to blame their spouse as they disconnect from the relationship, they will reinvent history such that something that they were OK with before is now a problem. The fact that the two of you no longer really talk to each other, makes the disconnection from you process easier, as she transfers her regular and more personal communications to that other person.

Not saying there is for sure someone else, but the the odds are real enough that you should consider it as a very real possibility.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

@TRy...thanks for the advice. Even if there is no affair, its miserable enough around this house that its palpable. The only reason we are remotely civil is for the day to day kids stuff and because I know yelling wont solve a darn thing. We are focusing on the kids to get through the days and nights. I dont feel good at all about filing for divorce, but its either going to be a relief to her, or its going to blind side her and she gets her act together. Either way, I have made peace with it. Its going to be awful, but in the long run (maybe even the short run depending on how long it takes), it will be best for us, and for the kids, although it does not feel like it right now.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> In a joking (yet serious) manner she said her ring had better be platinum. We went out and I got her a platimum/diamond ring to her liking and within a week she was smoke free.


Then if she does not return to the marriage you hold out your hand and ask for the ring back while she is out on the front step smoking her brains out.....

Symbolically of course. :wink2:


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

No doubt Happyman, no doubt!! I am visiting the attorney this week. It will be interesting to get their take.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

6301 said:


> She also has a short memory and doesn't seem to remember when you were the bread winner. Imagine if you did the same thing to her. She would have walked in a heart beat.


IMO she remembers but does not care. Certain women are funny about money; if right now the guy is not making a sufficient living, his past performance does not matter at all.

I went through something similar. Made lots (up to 2.5x) more than my ex for most of our marriage. When I was laid off I became a failure, even though we did not have money issues (her salary was enough). Within two months she had put an exit plan in motion.

So, the point (to the OP) is to take her dead serious that she wants out. His dedication in the past and attentiveness now does not matter. She (right or wrong) has decided that him not keeping up with her financially is a hard boundary. If she still cared she would be engaging him, but instead she has turned her back to him.

The OP needs to lawyer up and get every penny he can. He deserves it and it he feels no need to use it, his kids can certainly benefit. He should not discount that taking a step backwards in his career might affect his future employability, or how much more backwards he might have to go if he becomes the primary caregiver for the kids because his wife is now a career woman.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Gah. Slow down dammit. Cart before horse time.
1) There is no evidence proving either way that this is a WAW or a Cheater. My gut says low level affair with coworker (who smokes) but that is just my gut.
2) ~80K is LIGHT YEARS from unemployed basement troll. Yes she is making more but its not 50:1. Also, status of banker is not bad. We have a local here who is out-earned by his wife 3:1 but he is higher status due to being in high demand for his work and published nationally.
3) Do you live in NC, SC, VA, TX (Can anyone name the other 3?) where infidelity counts in a divorce? 
4) If you wish to know if she is cheating and dont live in the above states. See the top link in my signature. If you live in one of the states I listed you NEED to know if she is cheating.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

@weightlifter....thanks much for the input. I happen to be in PA. Just curious. If she has mentally checked out of the marriage, and she is not cheating, what difference does it make? I dont care about her money, as you noted I can fend for myself financially. I have lots of friends, I am well respected, etc. If my attorney decides she can get me support (in a 50/50 custody, which I want to have happen), or to pay alimony for a year or two until I get leveled off of debt, then I will take it, but I am not actively seeking it. As previous posters have said, I would not turn this down. Frankly at this point I dont care if she is cheating, I just want this over with so I can have my life back. Her being checked out makes me not even remotely like her. The thought of her smoking like a banshee also makes me not even want to be near her. Thats just how I feel. She does not want to be near me apparently as I could not even hug her to console her over her father. 

Just as a further update to you nice and helpful folks, I have a meeting on monday with an attorney to take the first step via a consultation. I honestly felt nauseous making the phone call. I chose a female attorney, not that it matters much, but I dont want some cut throat guy attorney. I just want things easy for the kids. There is quite a bit to unwind. Thanks again all, i will keep you posted as to my meeting!


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

MarlboroMan said:


> @weightlifter....thanks much for the input. I happen to be in PA. Just curious. If she has mentally checked out of the marriage, and she is not cheating, what difference does it make? I dont care about her money, as you noted I can fend for myself financially. I have lots of friends, I am well respected, etc. If my attorney decides she can get me support (in a 50/50 custody, which I want to have happen), or to pay alimony for a year or two until I get leveled off of debt, then I will take it, but I am not actively seeking it. As previous posters have said, I would not turn this down. Frankly at this point I dont care if she is cheating, I just want this over with so I can have my life back. Her being checked out makes me not even remotely like her. The thought of her smoking like a banshee also makes me not even want to be near her. Thats just how I feel. She does not want to be near me apparently as I could not even hug her to console her over her father.
> 
> Just as a further update to you nice and helpful folks, I have a meeting on monday with an attorney to take the first step via a consultation. I honestly felt nauseous making the phone call. I chose a female attorney, not that it matters much, but I dont want some cut throat guy attorney. I just want things easy for the kids. There is quite a bit to unwind. Thanks again all, i will keep you posted as to my meeting!


If you dont care if she is cheating then let it go. IIRC, PA is close enough to no fault to not worry about getting proof. Check with the attorney. It MAY make a difference in how long to final divorce.

BTW for men, all things being equal, choose the female divorce attorney with a rep for pit bull. You can start nice, but IF she decides to not play nice, the pit bull attorney can initiate attack mode IF necessary. 

Suggestion, since you are clearly not a basement troll, and can fend for yourself, see if you can get additional cash in the division in lieu of support. Many people will take the offer of a clean break; trading cash now for the ability to walk away.

PS. Look into the tax implications of divorce before Dec 31 vs Divorce after Jan 1. strategy strategy strategy.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> PS. Look into the tax implications of divorce before Dec 31 vs Divorce after Jan 1. strategy strategy strategy.


And also the implications for college financial aid, though in this case there aren't college aged kids. Finaid is based on the last tax year filing status. FAFSA (the fedgov) and private financial aid calculations assume married filing jointly have more disposable cash to spend on college expenses than divorced because they share living expenses and they pay less taxes when married.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

Awesome stuff weightlifter, thanks much for the advice. I really like what folks say about this attorney I have. Fighting for clients, etc. On an interesting note, my wife and I had a chat last night about divorce full on for the first time. I really laid it out there. We left it that she is going to seek counseling on her own (not marriage counseling, personal counseling). After talking candidly for a long time, I sense that she may very well be on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She told me she throws up at work every day from the all around stress of how she feels about life. I am honestly concerned for her, but nothing changed regarding her feelings for me. She thinks I am controlling (about money) and that I am too strict with the kids (which I might be). I know myself and I can understand where she is coming from. We both agree we have our flaws and now its show time to see if we are ready to walk away. Honestly, the thought of being divorced makes me feel happy sometimes, but more financially than emotionally. To have this abortion of a house payment off our backs would lift the weight of the world off my shoulders. We discussed being civil through the process, which was/is a concern once she realizes I went to an attorney behind her back (I am not stupid !) Next step is meet the attorney monday, feel out how the tapping of the 401k would work to draw funds to cover any shortfall on the house, and then let the chips fall where they may. I will follow my lawers advice. Honestly (to THOR), I dont think this settles this year. First it benefits me to wait till March when she gets her bonus, which pays off more joint debt so we can really walk away almost debt free, plus my cut of the pie for my savings plan, and she will be fine as well. The only issue at that point is alimony/support (to me) and what makes sense. Thanks again guys, you are all awesome! I actually feel like I will get a good nights sleep tonight. (I also dont think she cheated on me.....for the record--she is just in a terrible place with herself and hopefully her counseling helps her, divorce or not).


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow. So op has been married 14 years and for the last 4 WHOLE MONTHS she's been going through a difficult time including almost losing her father, menopause, gaining 30 pounds and dealing with a stressful new job and her husband is ready to bail. And of course TAM is ready to dump on her.

Well done. Great job standing by your wife and being a supportive husband. Hopefully you never go through your own difficult period where your partner bails on you. 

And I realize people are salivating to stick it to the woman but he makes 75k a year and while she does make more it's not that much. Nobody is getting spousal support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

@lifeistooshort...WOW,so I should just sit here and be her punching bag and be sick to my stomach until she comes to her senses (if she ever does)? In case you missed the summary, I tried standing beside her. She kicked me away multiple times. She told me she would rather be anywhere else but in this relationship. This is my issue? When all this first went down, I pleaded with her. I told her I would try to help her and be the better person she was seeking. The kids are getting older, we should be having more fun and I agreed with quite a bit of what she said. Ultimately, even if I were to change to the perfect man I feel like it comes down to status. She checked out on me over money and status. 
She is the one who bailed on me and cant even stand the sight of me. If there were any inkling of hope I would not have even been here with my concerns. She is the one who told ME that i am inferior to her and that I need her more than she needs me. You also hit on exactly the point, she does not make "that" much more, but to her, after getting her double masters, after I supported her during those three years, she tells me these things? You just dont "overcome" this kind of stuff. I am telling you she has this total disgust of me. It has to be the most hurtful thing I have ever been though. I tried to be super understanding, she wanted NO parts of it. She wont touch me, wont let me console her. She turned to cigarettes for consolation. Also, there is a door open for her to try out some personal therapy, and I have not totally written this off, but there needs to be significant change as four months has already torn me up inside. Its been misery for me too. I have offered to go to marital counseling with her, but she will not do it. 
Also for the record, she told me she has felt this way longer than 4 months but kept in inside (until she decided to unload on me and then turn to cigarette therapy when she knows I despise smoking). She has blown it up, not me. Thanks for the input though, but there is so much more to it than your female sided summary. Oh yeah, and one final thing, till all is said and done after bonuses, she may end up with 100k more than me, and that is alot of money. I told her I dont want it, but the group, rightfully so, advised me of my options...things i had not thought about with having extra money for the kids needs, even if a 50/50 split I should not have to ask her for money after all these years dontcha think? Anyway, I hear ya, but I respectfully disagree with your assessment..been there, done that.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Support works both ways. She does not love him. 

This has been going on for almost half a year.

He suggested she get personal counseling and I think that is all he can do at this time.

And divorces do not happen over night. Nor does a marriage end over night.

In most cases.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MarlboroMan said:


> First it benefits me to wait till March when she gets her bonus, which pays off more joint debt so we can really walk away almost debt free, plus my cut of the pie for my savings plan, and she will be fine as well. The only issue at that point is alimony/support (to me) and what makes sense.


But I wouldn't wait to get things rolling even if it doesn't settle until later. Holding off on saying anything to her in order to grab half her bonus would be pretty crappy on your part. So don't lead her on that you are going to D.

Also, her bonus would be based on past performance, and since you are still married she is earning that bonus right now. Thus I think it is totally fair to get half of it as part of the settlement. However, once you actually file papers the legal system may consider your finances as separated. So you might only be entitled to half of a partial year of her bonus. Anyhow, that is all in the details your atty should be working on.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

@Thor, i agree, I didnt mean I would shoot for March to try and screw her for her bonus, its just that we had previously planned to pay off one large piece of our debt with part of that bonus already. The point is kind of moot because one of us would have to carry that, and it would likely be her anyway and she would just pay it off with her own bonus at that point. I think we would both agree that everything stays joint until the D would be finalized. I am still in a holding pattern to see if she finds a phych to help her with her situation. Ever since the big talk, it has diffused much of the tension, but not the desire of the end result......


----------



## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

I can see the point of wanting to be completely free of her. But it would be foolish not to get whatever financial ruling in your favor that was available.

If you truly don't want her money, don't cash her checks when she sends them. Another alternative would be to put every check into a 529 account for the kids' benefit. If she ever tried to throw alimony issue in your face, you'd have a "solid gold" retort that illustrates you were looking out for the family unit - even in divorce - rather than looking out for yourself.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Absolutely take the money and absolutely start a college fund for the kids with it.


----------



## MarlboroMan (Sep 23, 2015)

Ok, so I met with the attorney last Monday. Basically its as I feared. Its going to suck and cost a ton of money to not go the amicable route. Unless things change, I dont think I want to blindside her with papers, but I definitely have a year end timeline on this. In PA a divorce is at least a 90 day waiting period. I confirmed we can use the 401k to cover the shortfall of the house. I also confirmed I would be entitled to a certain percentage towards alimony AND support. The judges tend to level the playing field. While I dont care about all that, it would definitely go towards the kids college funds. 
On a positive note, the wife has started therapy. I didnt think she would do it. On a bad note she didnt tell me about any of it till 10 days after, and she does not talk about it unless I bring it up. I have my doubts its going to help her, but at least she is giving it the effort. I had to go onto our benefit site to see who the Dr. was, and its a Family Counselor (as opposed to a regular psychologist), which I found interesting. I still feel like there is more to the story on her end. You just dont stop loving someone on a dime the way she has stopped caring about me. She claims it was building up, but I just dont know. Nothing adds up. I dont feel at all she is cheating on me. It could be the fact she has gained weight, but I dont care about that, plus she is now training to run a half marathon, so I know she still cares about herself. It is somewhat disconcerting though to see her come home and pound about 6 beers after running. I dont know how she does it. Plus she is still smoking all through it, which on its own merit is a smack in the face to me. I guess we shall see...letting more time pass. Bad day today with just not wanting to be around her. Some days are better than others. Thanks again all....big help to vent.


----------

