# Endless Indecisiveness



## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

My wife and I have been married 12 years. For those 12 years, I have spent each week living in a home close to work. I drive 75 minutes one way to work, so it is generally cheaper and easier in many ways for me to do this, typically making only one round trip per week. However, it is terrible for our marriage. For several years now, I have just been sick of the drive and living in two places. I want to be settled. I have expressed this to my wife many times. I have offered the most obvious solution, which is moving, but she will not do it. She drives 30 minutes on the same route to her work as I do to my work, so moving to the town where she works would eliminate her drive and significantly reduce mine to the point I would be willing to drive home every day. But she says our current primary residence is convenient to her work and to her best friend who lives nearby. I have to work this job for another 5 years to reach full benefits on my pension. She says I should be willing to make this sacrifice for our marriage, but she wants to sacrifice nothing. I make really good money at my job and I really like my place of work. Due to my seniority and where I work, I can't make close to what I make now anywhere else, so we cannot afford for me to take another job closer to home if there was even one to to be had. She's constantly fighting me about coming home. She'd have me drive every single day, but I just can't spend 2.5 hours of my day, 4 or 5 days a week driving for work.

There are also serious money issues. I have no idea where most of her money goes. She refuses to show me any of her finances. I do know she has racked up serious credit card debt behind my back, opened accounts without my knowledge, and is still carrying significant debt after several years. I even paid off her $12K car loan recently to help her pay off her other debt, but from what she's told me recently, she's apparently paid nothing down. I think I only enabled her to be more reckless. All she has to pay are utilities for the marital home, plus some of the food for the home and whatever personal things she needs. I pay _everything_ else, including everything for my secondary home. One thing that burns me up is her pot smoking. It's literally daily, for hours each day. I just know several hundreds of dollars must be going to that each month. I don't use pot or even alcohol. Her place of work does random drug testing, so that's another fear.

There's plenty more problems I won't go into, but these are the big ones. Basically, I want to know if I'm crazy for putting up with this. Am I just being too nice? I know she's using me. Everyone knows that. Even our marital counselor told me that a couple of years ago. I love my wife, and I don't want to make a mistake divorcing her. I'm 52 years old and she's ruining my financial and other goals. I'm running out of time to recover. I've considered divorce for many years. It's hard to throw in the towel.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

What you bring up makes complete sense to me. I think you need to address these with her in a serious manner; commute / home location and financial transparency.... she needs to know these have become deal breakers and you have to be ready to lose the relationship to fix these. If not, she won't take you seriously.

Are you sure there aren't other reasons why she doesn't want to move? Like another man involved? You spend a lot of time away from her and all that lost money is questionable.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

james9845 said:


> My wife and I have been married 12 years. For those 12 years, I have spent each week living in a home close to work. I drive 75 minutes one way to work, so it is generally cheaper and easier in many ways for me to do this, typically making only one round trip per week. However, it is terrible for our marriage. For several years now, I have just been sick of the drive and living in two places. I want to be settled. I have expressed this to my wife many times. I have offered the most obvious solution, which is moving, but she will not do it. She drives 30 minutes on the same route to her work as I do to my work, so moving to the town where she works would eliminate her drive and significantly reduce mine to the point I would be willing to drive home every day. But she says our current primary residence is convenient to her work and to her best friend who lives nearby. I have to work this job for another 5 years to reach full benefits on my pension. She says I should be willing to make this sacrifice for our marriage, but she wants to sacrifice nothing. I make really good money at my job and I really like my place of work. Due to my seniority and where I work, I can't make close to what I make now anywhere else, so we cannot afford for me to take another job closer to home if there was even one to to be had. She's constantly fighting me about coming home. She'd have me drive every single day, but I just can't spend 2.5 hours of my day, 4 or 5 days a week driving for work.
> 
> There are also serious money issues. I have no idea where most of her money goes. She refuses to show me any of her finances. I do know she has racked up serious credit card debt behind my back, opened accounts without my knowledge, and is still carrying significant debt after several years. I even paid off her $12K car loan recently to help her pay off her other debt, but from what she's told me recently, she's apparently paid nothing down. I think I only enabled her to be more reckless. All she has to pay are utilities for the marital home, plus some of the food for the home and whatever personal things she needs. I pay _everything_ else, including everything for my secondary home. One thing that burns me up is her pot smoking. It's literally daily, for hours each day. I just know several hundreds of dollars must be going to that each month. I don't use pot or even alcohol. Her place of work does random drug testing, so that's another fear.
> 
> There's plenty more problems I won't go into, but these are the big ones. Basically, I want to know if I'm crazy for putting up with this. Am I just being too nice? I know she's using me. Everyone knows that. Even our marital counselor told me that a couple of years ago. I love my wife, and I don't want to make a mistake divorcing her. I'm 52 years old and she's ruining my financial and other goals. I'm running out of time to recover. I've considered divorce for many years. It's hard to throw in the towel.


Is she being reckless, or is she saving towards an exit from the marriage?
If her cards are in both your names, you're on the hook if she books it.

Otherwise, I suspect she is gambling her money away.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

james9845 said:


> I want to be settled. I have expressed this to my wife many times. I have offered the most obvious solution, which is moving, but she will not do it. ... But she says our current primary residence is convenient to her work and to her best friend who lives nearby. ... She says I should be willing to make this sacrifice for our marriage, but* she wants to sacrifice nothing*. ... She's constantly fighting me about coming home. ... I have no idea where most of her money goes. *She refuses to show me any of her finances*. I do know she has racked up serious credit card debt behind my back, opened accounts without my knowledge, and is still carrying significant debt after several years. I even paid off her $12K car loan recently to help her pay off her other debt, but from what she's told me recently, she's apparently paid nothing down. ... One thing that burns me up is *her pot smoking. It's literally daily, for hours each day.* I just know several hundreds of dollars must be going to that each month. ... *Basically, I want to know if I'm crazy for putting up with this. Am I just being too nice? I know she's using me. Everyone knows that. Even our marital counselor told me that a couple of years ago. I love my wife, and I don't want to make a mistake divorcing her.*


I chose specific parts of your post, which I hope will clarify your thinking on this situation. Yes, you are "crazy" for putting up with this woman. But for every taker/user/manipulator out there, there is a giver/enabler/doormat. Guess which category you are.

You don't love this woman. C'mon man ... From what you describe she's a user, everyone (including you) knows she's a user, and she's a pot head to boot. Wow. Sounds like a real peach of a gal.

I fail to see why divorcing this woman would be a mistake. Please enlighten me as to why you think this could possibly be a "mistake." Are you afraid to be alone? Is this woman better than no woman at all? Because, from where I'm sitting, this sounds like a no-brainer. Seriously.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> I fail to see why divorcing this woman would be a mistake. Please enlighten me as to why you think this could possibly be a "mistake." Are you afraid to be alone? Is this woman better than no woman at all? Because, from where I'm sitting, this sounds like a no-brainer. Seriously.


Thank you for the response. It could be a mistake, because I really do love her. I care about her very much, and we've been together for over 15 years now. I adopted her son to make both of them happy, although I knew it was a major financial risk for me at the time. I even supported her through four years of unemployment and paid for a new college degree for her to pursue something that would make her happier. However, I've lost hope she'll ever have my back. While I know she's using me, and I am enabling it, I'm pretty sure she loves me. I know that probably sounds unbelievable given the circumstances. I used to worry about being alone at my age, but not now. It's not even a factor.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

james9845 said:


> My wife and I have been married 12 years. For those 12 years, I have spent each week living in a home close to work. I drive 75 minutes one way to work, so it is generally cheaper and easier in many ways for me to do this, typically making only one round trip per week. However, it is terrible for our marriage. For several years now, I have just been sick of the drive and living in two places. I want to be settled. I have expressed this to my wife many times. I have offered the most obvious solution, which is moving, but she will not do it. She drives 30 minutes on the same route to her work as I do to my work, so moving to the town where she works would eliminate her drive and significantly reduce mine to the point I would be willing to drive home every day. But she says our current primary residence is convenient to her work and to her best friend who lives nearby.


I would say that she LIKES that fact that you are not around all the time -- she can live the single life without YOUR interference.



> There are also serious money issues. I have no idea where most of her money goes. She refuses to show me any of her finances. I do know she has racked up serious credit card debt behind my back, opened accounts without my knowledge, and is still carrying significant debt after several years. I even paid off her $12K car loan recently to help her pay off her other debt, but from what she's told me recently, she's apparently paid nothing down. I think I only enabled her to be more reckless. All she has to pay are utilities for the marital home, plus some of the food for the home and whatever personal things she needs. I pay _everything_ else, including everything for my secondary home.


So, you need to change the financial game here. Tell her since she doesn't want to move, YOU need her to foot 1/2 of ALL bills that you both deal with. Check to make sure that YOU are not on ANY credit card that she has/uses. Also, STOP paying HER debts. Let her take care of that, and if she doesn't, tough. That is on her. Just make sure that YOU are not on the hook for her debts (check with a lawyer on this...).



> One thing that burns me up is her pot smoking. It's literally daily, for hours each day. I just know several hundreds of dollars must be going to that each month. I don't use pot or even alcohol. Her place of work does random drug testing, so that's another fear.
> 
> There's plenty more problems I won't go into, but these are the big ones. Basically, I want to know if I'm crazy for putting up with this. Am I just being too nice? I know she's using me. Everyone knows that. Even our marital counselor told me that a couple of years ago. I love my wife, and I don't want to make a mistake divorcing her. I'm 52 years old and she's ruining my financial and other goals. I'm running out of time to recover. I've considered divorce for many years. It's hard to throw in the towel.


Only YOU are allowing her to USE you. STOP DOING that. As I suggested, get her off the teat and let her work her own $$ but only AFTER she pays 1/2 of everything INCLUDING the home you have to stay at for work since she won't move.

Do this, get marriage counseling, and if none of that works, you have to at least get with a lawyer to see what D would look like for you.

Sorry you are going through this.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Hire a forensic investigator to track down her expenditures. There are ways around getting information off her computer and phone.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

re16 said:


> What you bring up makes complete sense to me. I think you need to address these with her in a serious manner; commute / home location and financial transparency.... she needs to know these have become deal breakers and you have to be ready to lose the relationship to fix these. If not, she won't take you seriously.
> 
> Are you sure there aren't other reasons why she doesn't want to move? Like another man involved? You spend a lot of time away from her and all that lost money is questionable.


Thank you for responding. I actually had that conversation last night, about these things being deal breakers. So today, in her regular fashion, she's being completely passive aggressive and giving me the (mostly) silent treatment. She also knows I've consulted with divorce attorneys. She says she has as well. We've been working on saving the marriage, but I'm running out of time. She's 9 years younger, so she has more time to recover from a divorce than I do. Actually, she'll make out like a bandit in a divorce.

I don't suspect another man at all. I would be shocked if that was the case.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

james9845 said:


> I don't suspect another man at all. I would be shocked if that was the case.


Famous last words there.

Bummer this whole thing is happening. You should call her on the silent treatment and tell her that is not how adults behave.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

james9845 said:


> ... I've lost hope she'll ever have my back. While I know she's using me, and I am enabling it, I'm pretty sure she loves me. I know that probably sounds unbelievable


No, it doesn't sound "unbelievable." Sad, but not unbelievable. Here's the thing: You've been told by friends, family, and even a counselor that this woman is using you. Yet you proclaim you love her. And, you go even further, and claim she loves you.

Uh, no ... and that's a hard no from my corner of the room. You don't know what love is. My guess is you think kissing her ass and giving her what she wants is "love." Nope. It's you trying to MAKE her love you. She sees your usefulness. She doesn't love you. I'm a woman. I know how women operate. This isn't how they show love. Doesn't have your back. Has no empathy for you. Takes but doesn't give. Again, just .... no. Sorry..


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

james9845 said:


> Thank you for the response. It could be a mistake, because I really do love her. I care about her very much, and we've been together for over 15 years now. I adopted her son to make both of them happy, although I knew it was a major financial risk for me at the time. I even supported her through four years of unemployment and paid for a new college degree for her to pursue something that would make her happier. However, I've lost hope she'll ever have my back. While I know she's using me, and I am enabling it, I'm pretty sure she loves me. I know that probably sounds unbelievable given the circumstances. I used to worry about being alone at my age, but not now. It's not even a factor.


If you really love her, give her a chance to redeem herself independent of the marriage. She needs a hard fall to understand where she is at in her life. She is abusing you, because she thinks her new man will replace you.

Divorce her quickly and let her fail. If she demonstrates a newfound commitment, at that point, and with a few years of independent living and not relying on you. If she still expresses wanting to be with you then, then you can consider reconciling.

But she needs that hard fall to wake up.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> So, you need to change the financial game here. Tell her since she doesn't want to move, YOU need her to foot 1/2 of ALL bills that you both deal with. Check to make sure that YOU are not on ANY credit card that she has/uses. Also, STOP paying HER debts. Let her take care of that, and if she doesn't, tough. That is on her. Just make sure that YOU are not on the hook for her debts (check with a lawyer on this...).
> 
> Only YOU are allowing her to USE you. STOP DOING that. As I suggested, get her off the teat and let her work her own $$ but only AFTER she pays 1/2 of everything INCLUDING the home you have to stay at for work since she won't move.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the input. I talked to her last night, and I'm going to again tonight. Basically that if we can't work things out, I'm done. I have spoken with local attorneys. It doesn't look great, but I'd rather be happy poor than rich and miserable.

In the past, when I've tried withholding funds to have her foot her fair share, she just racks up credit card debt to account for it. She even let a joint bank account bounce. I promptly closed that.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm not really sure what you are getting out of this "marriage"?  And I bet she loves you...


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Divorce her quickly and let her fail. If she demonstrates a newfound commitment, at that point, with a few years of independent living and not relying on you, if she still expresses wanting to be with you then, then you can consider reconciling.
> 
> But she needs that hardfall to wake up.


Thank you for the response. I've considered that. Telling her I want to divorce for financial reasons since I don't want to be responsible for her financial decisions, but maybe still trying to work on things. I don't know. I have so many things going through my head. We are complete opposites in some ways that are very important to me now. Most of them have revealed themselves during the marriage, but I should have heeded red flags before marriage.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not really sure what you are getting out of this "marriage"?  And I bet she loves you...


Sadly, I've been asking myself that same question for years.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

ArthurGPym said:


> Hire a forensic investigator to track down her expenditures. There are ways around getting information off her computer and phone.


Thank you, I'll look into that.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

james9845 said:


> Thank you for the response. I've considered that. Telling her I want to divorce for financial reasons since I don't want to be responsible for her financial decisions, but maybe still trying to work on things. I don't know. I have so many things going through my head. We are complete opposites in some ways that are very important to me now. Most of them have revealed themselves during the marriage, but I should have heeded red flags before marriage.


Create some rules that are on your terms that will help protect you and you from being manipulated through sympathy. 
You're very sympathetic and she's weaponized it against you.

You may need the help of an objective counselor to help create the rules that you need to live by.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

If she won't move to accommodate a significantly better commute for both you because she wants to be close to her friend, her priorities are wrong, unless it is based on the kid.

What is the kid's school situation? Would a move be tough on the kid? Has she brought this up?


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Create some rules that are on your terms that will help protect you and you from being manipulated through sympathy.
> You're very sympathetic and she's weaponized it against you.
> 
> You may need the help of an objective counselor to help create the rules that you need to live by.


I've been trying to get her to agree to a post-nup, in which we would set rules about finances, but she isn't going for it. She thinks I'm trying to squeeze her out financially, when all I'm really trying to do is limit damage to me and create clear rules with consequences about her spending. She won't even talk about it so far, and I've brought it up multiple times as a rational, "hey let's do this to help our marriage" type of thing.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

re16 said:


> If she won't move to accommodate a significantly better commute for both you because she wants to be close to her friend, her priorities are wrong, unless it is based on the kid.
> 
> What is the kid's school situation? Would a move be tough on the kid? Has she brought this up?


He's 21 now, so he's not a factor. Although, she wants him to move back in with us, which is another sticking point for me. He was 6 when we started dating, and he's been with us almost the entire time. Not great for the marriage.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

james9845 said:


> I've been trying to get her to agree to a post-nup, in which we would set rules about finances, but she isn't going for it. She thinks I'm trying to squeeze her out financially, when all I'm really trying to do is limit damage to me and create clear rules with consequences about her spending. She won't even talk about it so far, and I've brought it up multiple times as a rational, "hey let's do this to help our marriage" type of thing.


I recommend evenly dividing the assets, with including the children, for an easy divorce. She's not going to give up anything that she doesn't have to.
What I recommend is going for full custody and use the custody as a factor as to how assets get divided and then use state law as the determining factor in all that as to how assets are divided.
This needs to be a Blkitzkrieg.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

james9845 said:


> I've been trying to get her to agree to a post-nup, in which we would set rules about finances, but she isn't going for it. She thinks I'm trying to squeeze her out financially, when all I'm really trying to do is limit damage to me and create clear rules with consequences about her spending. She won't even talk about it so far, and I've brought it up multiple times as a rational, "hey let's do this to help our marriage" type of thing.


Why would she sign a post nup? She has it way too good to agree to anything like that, and you allow her behavior. You need boundaries. Good ones. I also think it's pretty important for spouses to be on the same page regarding something as important as finances. You might want to pull a credit report for you and your wife to find out the full story. Your wife sounds lazy and irresponsible. Bottom line she will most likely not change. You've been trying to encourage her to be financially responsible. She has shown you that she has no interest in doing that. That would be a deal breaker for me.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> I recommend evenly dividing the assets, with including the children, for an easy divorce. She's not going to give up anything that she doesn't have to.
> What I recommend is going for full custody and use the custody as a factor as to how assets get divided and then use state law as the determining factor in all that as to how assets are divided.
> This needs to be a Blkitzkrieg.


Thank goodness no minor children are involved. Another good thing is North Carolina is an equitable distribution state. How equitable things will be remains to be seen! I'll be fine if we divorce, though. I'm very ambitious.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

james9845 said:


> Thank goodness no minor children are involved. Another good thing is North Carolina is an equitable distribution state. How equitable things will be remains to be seen! I'll be fine if we divorce, though. I'm very ambitious.


Awesome, so it should be an easy-peasy divorce. 
I don't know how quickly you can get this done, but I would get it done asap. Tomorrow, if possible although I know I'm exaggerating. 

Tell your wife to sign the papers and not challenge an equitable distribution of resources. Tell her if she doesn't sign, you will spend every cent ensuring that she gets nothing. 

Mean that.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

Tex X said:


> Why would she sign a post nup? She has it way too good to agree to anything like that, and you allow her behavior. You need boundaries. Good ones. I also think it's pretty important for spouses to be on the same page regarding something as important as finances. You might want to pull a credit report for you and your wife to find out the full story. Your wife sounds lazy and irresponsible. Bottom line she will most likely not change. You've been trying to encourage her to be financially responsible. She has shown you that she has no interest in doing that. That would be a deal breaker for me.


I would hope she would at least consider a post-nup as a marriage saving device. I would, unless I was a gold digger.  I've read plenty on them being used as tools to save marriages, and it makes plenty of sense to me. Unfortunately, she's ruled by emotions.

I would love to pull a credit report on my wife, but I cannot legally do that without her permission. I regularly review my credit reports.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

james9845 said:


> I would hope she would at least consider a post-nup as a marriage saving device. I would, unless I was a gold digger.  I've read plenty on them being used as tools to save marriages, and it makes plenty of sense to me. Unfortunately, she's ruled by emotions.
> 
> I would love to pull a credit report on my wife, but I cannot legally do that without her permission. I regularly review my credit reports.


Ok then - if she wants to save the marriage I don't think it's unreasonable for you to request her credit report. You are married after all, so her debt is your debt unfortunately.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Tex X said:


> Ok then - if she wants to save the marriage I don't think it's unreasonable for you to request her credit report. You are married after all, so her debt is your debt unfortunately.


I would kick her out of the house for a couple of year before remarrying her.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

james9845 said:


> It doesn't look great, but I'd rather be happy poor than rich and miserable.


Yeah. Avoid finding another one the same next time.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She’s a user and you’re an enabler. Get a divorce and then give yourself time to figure out why you feel it’s okay to put up with that type of behavior.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

The post nup idea is like putting a band aid on a major wound.

Just stand up for yourself and she'll show her true colors.

She either loves you and wants whats best for you both and discusses it that way, or she will freak out on you because you really are only a paycheck to her.

I think we all know which way that will fall.

Take a strong and direct line and create the fork in the road. She can choose her path.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

So, I tried discussing things with my wife, and nothing has gone well to this point. She was totally triggered at the mere mention of a post-nup and immediately started her silent treatment routine. I tried presenting my ideas in a rational, non-accusatory manner. I offered my equity in our home in lieu of alimony, which is more than the total sum of alimony she would likely receive if we were to divorce. I offered to give her other things to limit the amount of my pension that is negotiable. I also asked to put in a clause regarding financial transparency, that each spouse, at the request of the other, would provide financial documents (credit card, bank, credit reports, etc) to the other. She refuses! She says she'll never sign a post-nup. I stated that the ideas I presented were simply a starting point, and that we should discuss them. She won't even discuss them. She says they are insulting and assumes she is an idiot. Sadly, she will have no choice but to discuss them and provide financial documents if we divorce.

So, I think it's pretty clear I need to end this. I am sure it is perfectly clear to others, but for me it is a horribly difficult decision.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She likes her role as user and your role as enabler. It’s been going on from the very beginning. Why would she want to change now?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Is your name on her credit cards? If not and you didn't cosign, check your state laws, but that would likely be her problem, and her income would be her assets if you've not been mixing them, though most couples do mix them and unless you wanted to spend a year paying a forensic accountant to tally it up $$$$$, you'd just have to round things off if you divorced. 

I wouldn't drive 75 minutes to work for anyone. I guess if that's total back and forth 75 minutes, that's okay. The only fair thing is to live in the middle. I think it's fine to move the kids to a new school as long as it's timed right and isn't done every other year to uproot them. Today they can stay in contact with old friends anyway with internet. Having one's best friend in a certain place never stopped me or any of my friends. Again, you can stay in touch anyway and it would make a nice day trip on the weekend. 

Sounds like she's used to getting her way, and that happens in a marriage because you can't both always have your ways, but something this important, it should be a compromise. If I were you, I'd stay over sometimes in a motel or something to lessen the hardship, but that's me and I'm single!!


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## NorthernGuard (Jul 29, 2021)

james9845 said:


> So, I tried discussing things with my wife, and nothing has gone well to this point. She was totally triggered at the mere mention of a post-nup and immediately started her silent treatment routine. I tried presenting my ideas in a rational, non-accusatory manner. I offered my equity in our home in lieu of alimony, which is more than the total sum of alimony she would likely receive if we were to divorce. I offered to give her other things to limit the amount of my pension that is negotiable. I also asked to put in a clause regarding financial transparency, that each spouse, at the request of the other, would provide financial documents (credit card, bank, credit reports, etc) to the other. She refuses! She says she'll never sign a post-nup. I stated that the ideas I presented were simply a starting point, and that we should discuss them. She won't even discuss them. She says they are insulting and assumes she is an idiot. Sadly, she will have no choice but to discuss them and provide financial documents if we divorce.
> 
> So, I think it's pretty clear I need to end this. I am sure it is perfectly clear to others, but for me it is a horribly difficult decision.


Did you run the idea of a postnup past your lawyer to be sure this is even a legal option for you, where you live? They're not worth the paper they're written on in a lot jurisdictions, so it may be a mute point trying to get her to sign one. 

Either way, you need to cut and run from this dumpsterfire now or you'll end up living a pisspoor retirement when she's done bleeding you dry and cuts and runs on you later.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

NorthernGuard said:


> Did you run the idea of a postnup past your lawyer to be sure this is even a legal option for you, where you live? They're not worth the paper they're written on in a lot jurisdictions, so it may be a mute point trying to get her to sign one.
> 
> Either way, you need to cut and run from this dumpsterfire now or you'll end up living a pisspoor retirement when she's done bleeding you dry and cuts and runs on you later.


My attorney suggested a post-nup since I was so on the fence about divorce. I'm telling her today I'm done. 

Thank you everyone for the responses.


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

james9845 said:


> My attorney suggested a post-nup since I was so on the fence about divorce. I'm telling her today I'm done.
> 
> Thank you everyone for the responses.


Best of luck! In talking with her make it clear of all the times you have tried in this message and she has refused them all and then say you will not share anything with me about your finances but you will now. I would make sure she feels some pain after what she has inflected on you.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Best of luck! In talking with her make it clear of all the times you have tried in this message and she has refused them all and then say you will not share anything with me about your finances but you will now. I would make sure she feels some pain after what she has inflected on you.



Just to be sure, I know I have a hand in the failure of my marriage. I know that I have not been perfect. I just hope I did things mostly right during our marriage.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

james9845 said:


> I'm telling her today I'm done.


How'd it go?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

james9845 said:


> So, I tried discussing things with my wife, and nothing has gone well to this point. She was totally triggered at the mere mention of a post-nup and immediately started her silent treatment routine. I tried presenting my ideas in a rational, non-accusatory manner. I offered my equity in our home in lieu of alimony, which is more than the total sum of alimony she would likely receive if we were to divorce. I offered to give her other things to limit the amount of my pension that is negotiable. I also asked to put in a clause regarding financial transparency, that each spouse, at the request of the other, would provide financial documents (credit card, bank, credit reports, etc) to the other. She refuses! She says she'll never sign a post-nup. I stated that the ideas I presented were simply a starting point, and that we should discuss them. She won't even discuss them. She says they are insulting and assumes she is an idiot. Sadly, she will have no choice but to discuss them and provide financial documents if we divorce.
> 
> So, I think it's pretty clear I need to end this. I am sure it is perfectly clear to others, but for me it is a horribly difficult decision.


I think you have allowed her to walk all over reasonable boundaries during your marriage. Is she from your culture? Is she supporting her family back home or something?
If she is working, where is all the money going, you have a right to know. She sounds downright unreasonable.
I think you have laid it out clearly, she seems to be using you for the comfort you provide without any accountability on her side. You are being transparent and reasonable. Time to pull the plug, get the lawyer and follow through, show her you mean business. Sometimes you have to be ready to lose the marriage to save it. To my mind any spouse who refuses to work with the other spouse and be transparent, is not worthy of working on the marriage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

james9845 said:


> Just to be sure, I know I have a hand in the failure of my marriage. I know that I have not been perfect. I just hope I did things mostly right during our marriage.


Explain, why do you say this?


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

re16 said:


> How'd it go?


Exactly as I expected. She blew up. She chased me down to my other home, and I endured 2+ hours of her emotions. Basically telling me all the things that are wrong with me. I just sat there as cool as a cucumber, being very careful with my words. She finally wore herself out and left. She wanted me to go back with her, but I didn't. Next day she cashed out her 401K without my prior knowledge to pay off her remaining credit card debt. She said she wanted to start with a clean slate financially and be transparent about her saving going forward. She seems to think it's all about the debt she acrued without my knowledge, but that is just a small part of it. She's still trying to get me back. I'd be lying if I said I haven't been second-guessing myself at times.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

aine said:


> Explain, why do you say this?


Only because I don't want it to seem like I think I'm blameless. It takes two. I'm sure most if not all people reading this forum understand this already. While she's taken advantage of me, I've enabled it.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

james9845 said:


> Only because I don't want it to seem like I think I'm blameless. It takes two. I'm sure most if not all people reading this forum understand this already. While she's taken advantage of me, I've enabled it.


you can only allow others to take advantage of you until realize they are after that it's on you...you have finally woken up and said enough is enough....this is your first day of freedom. You can't go back and correct the past, you can only fix who you are today and what you really want out of life.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

james9845 said:


> Exactly as I expected. She blew up. She chased me down to my other home, and I endured 2+ hours of her emotions. Basically telling me all the things that are wrong with me. I just sat there as cool as a cucumber, being very careful with my words. She finally wore herself out and left. She wanted me to go back with her, but I didn't. Next day she cashed out her 401K without my prior knowledge to pay off her remaining credit card debt. She said she wanted to start with a clean slate financially and be transparent about her saving going forward. She seems to think it's all about the debt she acrued without my knowledge, but that is just a small part of it. She's still trying to get me back. I'd be lying if I said I haven't been second-guessing myself at times.


Was the 401k cash out a loan or an early withdrawal? If it was an early withdrawal (ie - she has no intention of paying it back) that will trigger a significant tax event. Make sure you consider this when negotiating the divorce settlement, because you could also be on the hook for the early withdrawal taxes. You may even want to get it in writing that she will be solely responsible for that.


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## mitzi (Oct 8, 2013)

I know this post is from a couple weeks ago but I just wanted to say I feel you. If only it was so easy to shut our feelings down and just walk away. 
Im in kind of similar situation. Our shop is over an hour away because my husband chose that. He does come home every night but most nights not before 8 pm. Ive told him I want to sell the house and move closer to the shop but he has always got an excuse why we shouldn’t do that. 
Im sorry your dealing with this and its easy to say walk away. Doing and living it is two very different things.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She doesn’t want a divorce but she also doesn’t want your involvement in her financial affairs. Now she’s panicking because it’s not going as she planned. Hopefully, you can stay the course.


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## james9845 (Nov 4, 2021)

Thanks to all of you for your input and advice on my situation. It's been a big help.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

james9845 said:


> Thanks to all of you for your input and advice on my situation. It's been a big help.


Definitely consider the tax ramifications of the 401k withdrawal. It will be a 10% penalty on top of standard income tax.


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

My 403b is 20% penalty but I’m not sure if they are still in effect or not but last year due to Covid the government waived the penalty.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

james9845 said:


> Thank goodness no minor children are involved. Another good thing is North Carolina is an equitable distribution state. How equitable things will be remains to be seen! I'll be fine if we divorce, though. I'm very ambitious.


The main thing you need to look up for your state is whether you share her debt. If not, I'd sever this relationship just to end the financial carnage. I sure hope you are not on any of her credit cards as a cosigner or anything at all. And there may be some states that would still hold all the assets as one to be debted and divided, so you better just google that about debt in your state or ask the attorney before deciding.


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