# Can there be a marriage with out any trust?



## HouseWife07 (Jul 2, 2009)

Hi all, new here, first time posting. My H and I have been married for just over 2 years. I don't mean to start any fights here, but was wondering if any marriages have been successful when you don't trust one another? 

Here's a little background:
One morning while H was showering I was going through his phone. I noticed under his web browser history that he was looking at the Erotic Services of Craigslist. He was looking in the area where we live and also where he was going to be when he was out of town on business in a few days. Of course seeing this upset me. I have no issues of him looking at porn, none at all but when he starts looking at sites that will provide these services for him I got upset. I confronted him about it. I spoke to him that morning, of course at first he denies it. He tried denying it until I would stop but I wasn't letting go, so he gave in. I don't think he ever said he was sorry, but of course he said he would never do that, he would never cheat (I for some reason don't believe him). He tried throwing the whole situation in my face about going through his phone, but he got his own medicine thrown in his face. We had a fight not that far before this and he said we should have no secrets and we get no privacy. So I threw that in his face saying we have no secrets and there is no privacy so what is the big deal that I went through his phone. Needless to say, he wasn't happy. During that fight, a few weeks before, we learned of a few passwords that the other has for email. Of course after seeing him using the erotic services part of Craigslist, I went through his email. Upon doing so I've learned of a new email address that he has set up and is now using on his Iphone to keep information from me and who knows what else. 

To get to my point, I know my H is hiding things from me. I don't know what, but I know HE'S KEEPING SECRETS. If we're not suppose to have any privacy or any secrets why else would he be doing this? I don't know if he's cheating, I really don't but my gut is telling me other wise. 

Long story short, he doesn't trust me, I don't trust him.. Can this marriage work?


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## JDPreacher (Feb 27, 2009)

Depends on how hard you want to work at things...first thing you need to look at is why your husband is leaning toward cheating. For a man, affairs are usually about sex...is something missing, lacking or have things become stale?

If you actually had a relationship where there was nothing to hide and no reason to hide it, for him to do something like he did is beyond stupid, espcecially if there was an outside chance he would be found out...but that may be because he wanted to be found out.
Men have a difficult time bringing up subjects of a very personal and intimate nature, even with their spouse, so there are times when they will do soemthing to cause a conversation they are uncomfortable with.

Trust is a difficult thing to recover once it's been violated...it's not impossible but more often than not it's a precursor to the breakdown of the relationship.

Everyone and their brother will suggest counseling, and probably spell it incorrectly at that, but I think it's a little premature right now. Sit down and talk, write if you have to, but try and find out what's not there that needs to be...

Preacher


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Honestly, there has to be trust for a marriage to thrive. I was in a 23 year marriage. When I could no longer trust the spouse, the marriage was over. Like you, I began to find little flags quite by accident. Naturally they peaked my curiosity. And I began to look a little deeper. Those little things led to much bigger things. Of course, the spouse denied the stuff. That didn't "fly"--I had iron clad proof. Then, he blamed me for "making" him do those things. You may want to consider counseling before things get worse.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

HouseWife07 said:


> Hi all, new here, first time posting. My H and I have been married for just over 2 years. I don't mean to start any fights here, but was wondering if any marriages have been successful when you don't trust one another?
> 
> Here's a little background:
> One morning while H was showering I was going through his phone. I noticed under his web browser history that he was looking at the Erotic Services of Craigslist. He was looking in the area where we live and also where he was going to be when he was out of town on business in a few days. Of course seeing this upset me. I have no issues of him looking at porn, none at all but when he starts looking at sites that will provide these services for him I got upset. I confronted him about it. I spoke to him that morning, of course at first he denies it. He tried denying it until I would stop but I wasn't letting go, so he gave in. I don't think he ever said he was sorry, but of course he said he would never do that, he would never cheat (I for some reason don't believe him). He tried throwing the whole situation in my face about going through his phone, but he got his own medicine thrown in his face. We had a fight not that far before this and he said we should have no secrets and we get no privacy. So I threw that in his face saying we have no secrets and there is no privacy so what is the big deal that I went through his phone. Needless to say, he wasn't happy. During that fight, a few weeks before, we learned of a few passwords that the other has for email. Of course after seeing him using the erotic services part of Craigslist, I went through his email. Upon doing so I've learned of a new email address that he has set up and is now using on his Iphone to keep information from me and who knows what else.
> ...



Sounds to me more like your susupicious without any proof other than snooping. You say he is hiding things from you and you base that on your snooping. 
I would say you have issues with trust and should not be snooping.... and you should learn to deal in facts and not intuition.
I wouldn't trust you either if I were him and I would also suspect your just looking for some drama to stir up. A marriage cannot survive with no trust.


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## XiaSulin (Jul 5, 2009)

When I read this title right away this brought me to this movie I've seen where the guy says. "Without trust there can be no love."


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Well, I guess the question is why did she snoop? If she thought there was a reason, then she confirmed it. If there wasn't already suspicion, then the trust has been broken. 

Either way, he's hiding things and that's just wrong (unless it's a special gift or something  ). 

Housewife (BTW, welcome!), if he's doing this now, then how long has he been doing this? If it's been a while, possibly he could have acted on this. If that's a possibility, I'd get checked for STDs. And get him checked, too! No sex until he's clean.


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## 1nurse (Jan 21, 2009)

You can't have ANY emotional, intimate relationship without trust.


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## Rhea (May 16, 2009)

Without trust you don't have sh*t, marriage, friendship, dating, nothing. There it is.


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## HouseWife07 (Jul 2, 2009)

dcrim said:


> Well, I guess the question is why did she snoop? If she thought there was a reason, then she confirmed it. If there wasn't already suspicion, then the trust has been broken.
> 
> Either way, he's hiding things and that's just wrong (unless it's a special gift or something  ).
> 
> Housewife (BTW, welcome!), if he's doing this now, then how long has he been doing this? If it's been a while, possibly he could have acted on this. If that's a possibility, I'd get checked for STDs. And get him checked, too! No sex until he's clean.


The reason I started snooping was because of his sexual references that he started making. Our sex life isn't the best, it's lacking and it's my fault. My insecurities hold me back and he knows this and I've asked for his help, but he hasn't done anything. It's just the same routine. 

When he referenced something a few times it got me wondering. He's looking for something specific and it's one thing that I don't like to do, so I don't do it. It made me wonder if he was going elsewhere for it. That's what got me to snooping. 

I know he can track what ever I do on the internet, I don't do much of anything. I hate sitting in front of the computer all day, but when I'm bored that's what I do. I don't look at anything that should be shocking at all. Maybe some porn sometimes, but who cares? I know he's had keyloggers on my computers. I can't go through his comps because he has to bring them to work everyday and when he happens to leave them at home I don't touch them. I don't go through his phone every day, but seeing what I've seen sticks in my head. It seriously seems like it's ok for him to keep things from me, but I can't keep things from him... And No, he's not keeping things because he is buying me a gift. He doesn't do that unless it's a birthday or anniversary, and we're far away from either of those.

I don't know how long this has been going on for. I honestly can't say if he's doing anything. I would have to follow him to work and that is just impossible. I have absolutely no clue what he does all day at work on his computer or cell phone. He has his own office, he has another cell phone with a phone # that I don't know and who knows who has it, I can't even say if he's been using it or not. It's obvious he's doing things on his current phone that he doesn't want me to see.

I know he's full of ****. I've confronted him on other issues and he's tried denying those things too, but I know the truth. I saw things with my own eyes, it was my fault for letting it go. I was trying to pick my battles. He's a liar and he can't fess up to things when he's been confronted. I'm not looking to start drama, I'm trying to find out why my H is HIDING THINGS FROM ME!!!! 


PRESO... Some women have a sick intuition, some call it their 6th sense. I've learned through other situations in my life to go with the intuition most of the time. Your gut feeling is usually right.


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## Sunny1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I agree with your intuition...whatever caused you to snoop in the first place has already been done and regardless, you found something.

Without trust, there is no relationship, will he commit to counseling?


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

If you feel that strongly about it, look for hard evidence, since you can't follow him to work, put a GPS thing on his car and actually CATCH him...
otherwise, this snooping is really doing no good. The problem with snopping is it can look one way and be another.

I know lots of people snoop, but often they do not read into things right because emotions come into play, jealousy and all that. Sometimes things are not as they seem !!!

A mobile tracking unit like the kind people buy to track teenage drivers is just a few hundred dollars.
http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/gps-car-tracking-vehicle-logging.html

I only believe in intution if its backed up with facts.


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## kozzy (Jul 2, 2009)

I agree with Preso - until you have hard evidence, you really don't know anything. Did he check the Craigslist ES section because he'd been hearing all the recent news reports and was just curious? If he's been sexually unfulfilled for a long period, perhaps he toyed with the idea of taking it further than just looking, but didn't. Odds are, that's the case. But then again maybe he's been acting on it for some time. There's no way to know from what you saw on his phone.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Sounds to me that all of his bad behavior made him not trust you and then this "open" policy was more smokescreen because he knew he had things he was hiding from you already.

Cheaters sometimes make the most noise about cheating and about honesty and about truth because they're so keenly messed up about what they are doing. 

Me, I'd dump him. I couldn't live with someone like him. If he can't accept your sexual preferences and can't live with it and feels it is his right to go outside to look for it, I'd give him all the permission in the world -- the day the papers were delivered.


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## kozzy (Jul 2, 2009)

[Me, I'd dump him. I couldn't live with someone like him. If he can't accept your sexual preferences and can't live with it and feels it is his right to go outside to look for it, I'd give him all the permission in the world -- the day the papers were delivered.]

Divorce him for looking at a webpage? Yikes.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

I've done things (not cheating though) to loose my Wife's trust and she has full right to not trust me because I did purposely keep something from her that she had specifically asked me not to do, so I am obviously completely in the wrong and deserve to not be trusted ever again.

Now, can there be a marriage without any trust?

I hope so, because I need my Wife to see past a betrayal of her trust and see that I am not doing something that is a 
"deal breaker", something the other person just can't get passed.

In your situation, you have not actually found out that he is cheating, either by e-mail or in person, yet. Right?

So, it's like *preso* already stated, 



> Sounds to me more like your susupicious without any proof other than snooping.---
> you should learn to deal in facts and not intuition.


I suspected my Wife (girlfriend at the time) was cheating, this made me very insecure and snoopy too, so I snooped and was lucky enough to find that I was right.

I chose to not only stay but marry her, after the fact.
The problem that was immediately imminent, one of those things that if you only thought about rationally you could have avoided, was the fact that I forgave verbally just fine but then found it hard to live with someone that could have done that to me and so I acted like a jealous A-hole for a time till I finally relaxed and just lived my life, trusted in the "love" and hoped for the best.

I'd say, if you still love each other and want to work things out you work on the trust thing, either on your own if you think you can even communicate rationally at this point or seek out help from a marriage counselor.

You might need to let go of the fear of all BAD that can happen, it helped me to resign myself to the fact if she really wanted to she is smart enough to not get caught for a long time and so it's useless for me to worry all the time.
It's not really giving up, it's patience, because if he is messing on you, he will eventually slip and you will catch him and you can deal with that stress then, and not "until then".

I got to the point where I was going to start buying all this expensive surveillance equipment, keystroke reading software, a cloned phone, GPS tracking on the car and phone, all kind of over the top, straight stalker status and I had the means to do so, but took a step back from the situation for a minute and saw how crazy expensive and stressful it would be and I just gave up and relaxed.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

HouseWife07 said:


> I know he can track what ever I do on the internet, I don't do much of anything. I hate sitting in front of the computer all day, but when I'm bored that's what I do. I don't look at anything that should be shocking at all. Maybe some porn sometimes, but who cares? .




you look at porn sometimes and you think he's cheating?
because of some remarks he has made and you have a uneventful sex life

???????????
:scratchhead:


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

He's been prepping himself to cheat -- especially since he was looking in areas he would be on business, where he's less likely to be known or get caught.

But he wants her to believe he would never cheat.

Uh huh.

He wasn't just looking at porn. He was looking at opportunity. He was seeking it out. That's a far cry from passively looking at porn. He wants something more interactive and whether he's actually gotten it or not I do not know. But he was definitely heading in that direction.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

well, dont know much about porn but... I know on craigslist you have to put in a zip code to look for anything in an area, they want to know what area you want to look ( what city) and maybe he just looked at craigslist in that zip code because that zip code was handy ( on his paperwork).

I don't think its good to give a guy a hard time if you have no real proof and visiting websites is no proof.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

You can search by region -- you don't have to put in a zip.

Incredibly naive, Preso. I'm sure it was innocent, looking at home and looking where he was planning to visit. I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you. You'll probably stumble across it while you wander through Craig's list innocently enough so I know I don't have to direct you to it. The listing is right near "discreet encounters" in whatever area you happen to be away from your SO in.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

Preso...I'm on brickhouse's mailing list! Seems like a good place for all kinds of interesting stuff.  

Dobo, I agree. If he hasn't done it, he's prepping for it. In any case, I'd still be cautious, you never what he's done and brought home. 

When I'm on the road, I have several porn sites I go to. Even while with xgf (she had no problem with that; we'd watch it together). No places where I intended to meet up.


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## raising5boyz (Nov 8, 2008)

You should be worried. My H did the craigslist thing. At first it was just "curiosity". Then it was a few emails and phone calls "just to see". Then he did the deed. He too had a computer he took to work everyday. He had another cell. He had another email. This all spells TROUBLE.

Porn is completely different than looking for services in your area, or will you will be. 

Don't let him yank your chain. He has done it or will be soon. Find a way into that other email account without him knowing....you will be amazed and horrified.


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## HouseWife07 (Jul 2, 2009)

A lot of good points noted here. Thank you all very much. (I'm not saying that I agree with it all.) I'm not condoning that my snooping is the correct way to go about things, but when innuendos have been heard and lies have been told before, than I need to do something. I have been walked on and lied to before and I won't let it happen again. I don't think me looking at porn is as unconventional as him looking at erotic services on craigslist. I can't act upon that porn, I can't call a # and hook up with a porn star. He can call a # on craigslist and hook up with a prostitute. On craigslist you have to look in specific locations, just because he was going to Florida doesn't mean it was "handy" for him to look there on craigslist, he wasn't looking to buy a car, he was looking specifically at EROTIC SERVICES. Why else would someone look there? Logical thinking to me makes sense. I know it doesn't take rocket science to figure this crap out. Some think what he did is perfectly fine, but after that incident things are now being hidden. It only makes sense that something is going on. I don't know exactly what's going on, but I have to find out. Why would your significant other keep things from you, other than the obvious? Something has to be going on and I'm not NAIVE enough to let it happen to me. It may take me a while, but I will get answers.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

That's just it -- with the number of porn choices out there, there's only one reason to look at those sorts of ads... you're thinking about it and want to know what is out there. 

I have a feeling I'd probably require an STD test before I'd have sex with my husband without a condom... I don't see the need to risk my life (I've got children afterall) and there's just no way to know what the guy has or has not done.

If he turns up clean, I'd be very clear -- you've no more strikes. Fail to live up in this area and you might as well just not return home from work the next day. 

One thing people want in marriage is safety. This environment does not create safety.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

dobo said:


> He wasn't just looking at porn. He was looking at opportunity. He was seeking it out. That's a far cry from passively looking at porn.



:iagree:


His getting angry at you snooping was telling. If he was just looking and not guilty, he would have just blown it off, offered to show you who/what he was looking at, talked to you about it etc. 

There is a bigger issue here - sexual incompatibility. 

FIX the sex problem and you have a chance together. You might be able to do it together, and it might take just YOU doing the fixing. You know what he wants. Search your heart and see if it's something you are willing to give him. If so, approach him about it - tell him you are nervous but would like to try. and then do your best! If you know it's something you can't stand, and know you will NEVER ever do for anybody, you need to tell him that too and let him figure it out. 

Trust is knowing you are safe when you DON'T have proof. It's knowing in your heart they love you and would not do anything to harm you even with the evidence points elsewhere. 

You can't have trust right now, because he is unhappy with your sex life. No trust, no love. period.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

She can't have trust right now because he violated that trust. Lots of people are unhappy with their sex lives and don't do what he's done. 

His action caused the problem, not her. Giving him what he wants doesn't recover the trust. And if you're suggesting that by not giving him what he wants, the marriage will always be at risk, well, then that is a marriage that's only viable under threat and coercion. That's not much of a marriage. 

And even if he gets what he wants, that's no guarantee he won't continue to look elsewhere. So why on Earth do something you don't want to do for a man who isn't trustworthy in the first place?


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## koala49 (Jul 21, 2009)

Without trust you are backing a three legged horse. Dont listen to people who try to condemn you for "snooping" my husband had a woman he worked with texting him all the time, I thought it was his daughter until I found a note with a name Rosie and the i had a love heart as a dot above it, when I asked him about it he said it was an old lady at work who wanted him to do some work for her. "makes me wonder what the work was" but anyway I caught him up in the back yard talking to her on the phone a couple of nights later, he swore it was nothing and I just nothing would talk to her on the couch inside, guilt talks to her way up the back yard so I sent him packing. Nothing physical ever happened although he has admitted it could have because we were having problems at the time, however, we are back together but never will I not suspect things if something seems not quite right, trust has gone and unfortunately the marriage is really a sham now, it should be ended but neither of us are making the effort to end it, but I think its not far down the track. My honest opinion is that if the trust is gone then the marriage is not worth trying to hold onto, if he has done something he will do it again..................................


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## trev (May 23, 2009)

one of the hardest things to get back into your relationship is trust !! It takes a lot of hard work and even then i feel there is always doubt lingering it the back ground.
You hada reason to snoop i guess id do the same if i had any doubt


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## beyond betrayal (Jul 21, 2009)

carmaenforcer said:


> I've done things (not cheating though) to loose my Wife's trust and she has full right to not trust me because I did purposely keep something from her that she had specifically asked me not to do, so I am obviously completely in the wrong and deserve to not be trusted ever again.
> 
> Now, can there be a marriage without any trust?
> 
> ...






LOL on the straight stalker status. I too was at that point without the means! That just made my day.

Well I am involved in a recent similar situation. My bf (love of my life) cheated on me with a friend of ours. There was a gut feeling something was wrong. When I decided to put my foot down it was to late. The damage had been done. I wish I would have followed my gut feeling earlier and maybe I coulda spared myself the pain. But like you said I stayed and I'm trying to still be happy and get over my fears. However its a bit soon to say. 

So Ma'am what I would say to you is snoop. They are not going to tell you the truth!!!!! You need to know so find out.


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