# she won't shave her legs



## nader

*she won't shave her legs (symptom of larger power/controll issues?)*

Her leg hair is starting to bug me.. I've asked her to shave it on numerous occasions and she just ignores me and writes me off. I just think hairy legs on woman is... kind of gross.

It is wrong to ask your wife to do this every once in awhile? 

I understand she works hard, is pressed for free time and is often exhausted.. however, it would be nice if she would make the effort simply *because I've asked her to.*

*Refusing to do this sends me the message that my requests are not important to her*, and that to me is the bigger issue.

ETA: some of you guys really know how to get to the heart of things...


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## Mavash.

It is gross. She doesn't want to and she's giving you excuses. I shave in the shower DAILY and have been for years. Takes an extra 5-10 minutes tops. My husband also shaves daily. It's part of grooming that's important.


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## confusedwithconflict

How would she feel about a leg wax? I would LOVE if my H did that for me because we have the smallest shower known to man and it is a task, but I do it lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I agree it's gross. Not my thing. I shave my legs every time I shower.


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## Maricha75

No, it's not wrong to ask your wife to do this occasionally. I don't shave every time i am in the shower... the hair doesn't grow back fast enough for that! LOL But no, there is nothing wrong with requesting that. What excuse does she give for not doing it?


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## Runs like Dog

How far up? Isn't that the issue?


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## nader

Maricha75 said:


> No, it's not wrong to ask your wife to do this occasionally. I don't shave every time i am in the shower... the hair doesn't grow back fast enough for that! LOL But no, there is nothing wrong with requesting that. What excuse does she give for not doing it?


She just hates doing it, it's time consuming, she's tired, she worked all day, we have a toddler, etc.

Precisely the kind of excuses she would *not* take from me.


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## Gaia

Is she into the NATURAL look? I know some people who are into being natural don't shave or put on perfume, deodorant, ect. Perhaps she may be going through that natural phase? (I only shave once a week since it's a week before any hair grows back lol. )


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## Gaia

nader said:


> She just hates doing it, it's time consuming, she's tired, she worked all day, we have a toddler, etc.
> 
> Precisely the kind of excuses she would *not* take from me.


Does she ask/require you to shave anything?


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## Mavash.

nader said:


> Precisely the kind of excuses she would *not* take from me.


Time to change this.


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## chillymorn

maybe she trying to make herself unattractive so she don't have to have sex with you.

her excuses are bogus.Time to have the talk about how keeping your attractive for your partner is important.brushing your teeth and wiping your a$$ takes time also but I'll bet she dose those.


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## nader

Gaia said:


> Is she into the NATURAL look? I know some people who are into being natural don't shave or put on perfume, deodorant, ect. Perhaps she may be going through that natural phase? (I only shave once a week since it's a week before any hair grows back lol. )





> Does she ask/require you to shave anything?



I don't think that's it at all.. she is otherwise fastidiously clean. I've changed my showering habits for her; before I moved in I was a morning showerer.. she insists that I take showers at night instead and for the most part I've complied, for obvious reasons! She tends to be critical of my hygiene in general, which is really unfair because I'm a clean guy; I shower once or twice daily brush teeth, wear deo, etc. I really think she has a heightened sense of smell.

She is also OCD and spends all kinds of time plucking hair from other places - including my ears!- and admits this is one of her OCD quirks. So there is lots I don't understand, apparently!


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## Gaia

Well.. that is weird that she doesn't shave then.....


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## Maricha75

nader said:


> *She just hates doing it, it's time consuming, she's tired, she worked all day, we have a toddler, etc*.
> 
> Precisely the kind of excuses she would *not* take from me.


I had a toddler when I had my baby...and I STILL managed to shave my legs. Excuses, plain and simple. But if it truly bothers you that much, make her listen. Tell her that it seems YOUR feelings don't matter.


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## Coffee Amore

To echo the others, it shouldn't that long to shave her legs. She's not doing it because she can't. She's not doing it because she wants to send a message to you. Big difference.



nader said:


> I don't think that's it at all.. she is otherwise fastidiously clean. I've changed my showering habits for her; before I moved in I was a morning showerer.. she insists that I take showers at night instead and for *the most part I've complied, *for obvious reasons! * She tends to be critical of my hygiene in general,* which is really unfair because I'm a clean guy; I shower once or twice daily brush teeth, wear deo, etc. I really think she has a heightened sense of smell.
> 
> She is also OCD and spends all kinds of time plucking hair from other places - including my ears!- and admits this is one of her OCD quirks. So there is lots I don't understand, apparently!


I think she's resentful. She has other changes to make to your hygiene routine which you don't/won't do so she reacts by not doing something she knows you want her to do. 

What are the other things she wants you to do?


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## MrsKy

nader said:


> Her leg hair is starting to bug me.. I've asked her to shave it on numerous occasions and she just ignores me and writes me off. I just think hairy legs on woman is... kind of gross.
> 
> It is wrong to ask your wife to do this every once in awhile?
> 
> I understand she works hard, is pressed for free time and is often exhausted.. however, it would be nice if she would make the effort simply *because I've asked her to.*
> 
> *Refusing to do this sends me the message that my requests are not important to her*, and that to me is the bigger issue.


:iagree::iagree: It also sends the message that she is too comfortable in the relationship to make an effort with her appearance. Never a good thing!

I don't shave my legs very often because I hardly grow any hair on my them. I am very dilligent about shaving my armpits and my privates because those areas get bushy fast. 

The pressed for time excuse is pure nonsense. Your wife is just too lazy to shave-if she showers, she can shave in there! 

If you take care of your hygeine the way you describe here, your wife has no reason to be upset. I don't see how you can be any more clean! Don't let your wife turn you into her puppet with unreasonable demands. She is just deflecting to take the focus off her actions.


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## nader

The legs are a symptom of bigger things, of course. I wasn't planning on going here, but here we go.

hygiene-wise I'm doing just fine. There are isolated occasions where I opt to shower in the morning instead of before bed, but it's few and far between, and I feel it's my prerogative to do so. If I skip the before-bed shower I know I'm less likely to get certain treatment, and some nights I'm ok with that.

general attentiveness around the house is an issue.. for which I've started taking Adderall. It helps... sort of, but I'm still adjusting to it and its' a little weird. 

We have a puppy.. the puppy likes to chew things.. sometimes I don't take proper precautions and we lose a flip flop while I'm on the laptop. This happened yesterday while I was at work.. not my finest moment. 

Earlier that morning she was irritated because I had left the dog in the cage.. to prevent things like that from happening! I let the dog out - because she asked me to - and forgot to move a couple things out of the way. Monitoring a toddler and a puppy all day while she's at work is challenging.. it's easy to make mistakes. She's right to be irritated but not to lose her temper, swearing, completely overreacting. An incident like this shouldn't put a damper on the entire evening, but it does.

Generally if I confront her about something she procrastinates/refuses to do - reasonable things like sex stuff, decluttering/organizing areas of the house that are her responsibility... the pattern is for her to use lame excuses like the above, or to throw all my shortcomings back in my face rather than addressing my concern.

I've seen a counselor twice for ADD and marriage stuff. To me it's marriage counseling. To her it's 'fix everything that's wrong with my husband' counseling. I've had my one-on-one and expressed most of this stuff to the counselor.. I think she understands.

It is her turn to call and make an appointment for her one-on-one. What bothers me more than her hairy legs is that *she's had the number for a week and she hasn't called because she has 'other things on her mind.'*


It's the same thing as not shaving her legs.. 

I've taken steps to work on these issues, I was the one who sought out the counselor.. last night she told me to my face "you're the problem, not me." as if I'm the only one who has stuff to work on.

This is what bothers me the most... that I've taken measurable steps.. I am raked across the coals for every mistake, and told that whatever marital issues we are having are *my fault and only mine.*

this morning, she practically melted when I brought in her mother's day present. We had great 'mothers' day sex' focused almost entirely on her pleasure and it was lovely.

But none of that seems to matter when she's mad about something.


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## MrsKy

Sounds like your wife is very immature and passive aggressive.

People need to realize that relationship problems are rarely one partner's fault. It takes two to tango. Why don't you call your wife on her BS? She can only treat you the way you allow her to.

I think your wife is being ridiculous. Who cares _when _you shower as long as you are clean? :rofl::rofl: 

You cannot watch your puppy every minute. We have a kitten and sometimes she gets into things while I am studying. All you can do is take precautions, the same way you would with a human baby. Put the shoes in the closet and shut the door.


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## synthetic

Nader,

Is your wife fairly moody and usually on the extreme side?

If so, read the following link and see if your wife shows some of the traits:
Borderline personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please understand, that most humans show fluctuating degrees of BPD symptoms throughout their lives. It becomes a major problem when the frequency goes up and the reactions become extreme.

Your wife may also be depressed. 

Overall, I would say you've given your wife waaaaaaaay too much power in your relationship. As a man, you're disrespecting your inner instincts just to conform to your wife's delusional image of a marriage. It will end up in divorce if you continue.

You need to change the dynamics of your relationship NOW. Unfortunately it will cause your sex life and peace to take a beating for a short while at least, but I'm afraid you have no other choice.

Your wife has lost respect for you. A healthy man has the drive to deal with anything in life except for lack of respect. Men cannot live without feeling respected and needed (at all times). Those who try always fail. That's just nature.

Do you feel respected by your wife?


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## nader

I don't feel respected, and it kills me.. there are fleeting moments when I feel appreciated but on a day-to-day basis I'd say no. She has to have some degree of respect for me but she hasn't learned how to express it.

BPD I'm not so sure about.. depression, financial stress, work stress, OCD... maybe a spash of anxiety and maybe some weird hormonal stuff - I'd say those are the main issues. She's admitted before that she has anger management issues, but then all but retracted this when I mentioned it again, as if taking back any 'ammo' she may have inadvertently supplied me with.

She could stand to lose some weight and probably has body/self esteem issues as well. I walk around eggshells with this topic.. compliment her appearance often and sincerely and still love having sex with her.

I'm just sick of being blamed for everything.


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## Lon

Nader, just an idea, I'm trying to brainstorm a little for you here, but if she feels no need to groom then plan a really formal date, like a play or some event where she would want to wear a dress and get glammed up a little? Even if she don't want to shave for you I doubt she'd be caught dead in a room full of glamourous ladies showing off her leg stubble.


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## nader

well, it's going to be pool time very soon so I'm hoping that will help.


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## SabrinaBlue

Nader, her refusal to shave signals her refusal to respect herself, you, and your sexual intimacy. I let the forest grow as much as the next gal. But come date night (or any time I'm planning to get lucky), I'm making close personal friends with my razor.


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## Mavash.

After reading more I don't think this is about shaved legs. It's a symptom of a much larger problem. She has an excuse for everything which translates down to she doesn't want to or it's not important to HER.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I don't honestly know how she can stand it. I've let my leg hair grow in the cold weather before when I had broken my neck and just had a spinal fusion. It took me 6 full months to heal, but I did shave under my arms. I like everything shaved and smooth. The long leg hair would pull on my jeans or pants. It drove me crazy and eventually I asked hubby to shave my legs for me. It's only bad on my shin area. I have lighter hair, so it's not too bad except that one spot. Those first couple weeks were hell. I'm not looking forward to my future surgery.

I do find it disrespectful not to pull your own weight fulfilling your husband's needs, even if it's as simple as a shave. It takes me about 3 minutes to shave both legs and knees. I don't have to shave above the knee due to being small fuzz.


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## SabrinaBlue

Mavash, you're right. It seems like she might benefit from a visit to her doctor.


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## nader

Mavash. said:


> After reading more I don't think this is about shaved legs. It's a symptom of a much larger problem. She has an excuse for everything which translates down to she doesn't want to or it's not important to HER.


Yes... 

I mostly wanted to start this thread just to make sure I wasn't being unreasonable to ask this of her.. but you've hit the nail on the head.

I'm aware of what she wants/needs/expects for me, I make an effort to adjust my behavior, not always successfully, but I try. Any failure on my part, to her, means that 'I'm not trying hard enough!'

Yet I am not seeing the same kind of effort from her, or any real acknowledgement that my wants/needs/concerns are equally valid. Some things might not matter to her but they should *because I'm her husband,* and that is reason enough!

... we are hitting a wall here and it's really disturbing to me.


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## moxy

(Regarding the leg-shaving: ) If her reason is really that she doesn't have enough time to do it and she isn't depressed or passive-aggressively pushing you away or tired/overworked, then perhaps she ought to get a wax? They're so much better! And the results are longer lasting. 

Maybe you can set it up as part of a really nice spa day -- a legs, brazilian, arms, underarms wax, body scrub, mani-pedi, and hour-long aromatherapy massage. If you want to be even more generous, throw in a facial, too. Afterwards, be extra romantic and loving in the ways she wants (positive reinforcement and +1 on the confidence boost). She will come away from it feeling pampered and lovely and might want to keep taking care of herself a little more. 

If I'm feeling lazy about my physical appearance, it's usually because I'm depressed or feeling too busy to take care of myself or totally exhausted. Something simple like a spa day will pull me out of the self-neglect. Maybe it will work on your wife, too.

EDIT: I read further in the thread and she isn't just caught up in self-neglect, she is actively dismissing your concerns and wishes; there's definitely a power imbalance here. She's taking you for granted, it sounds like. Have you guys been to counseling? Sounds like there are much deeper issues at play here. You can't control the environment 100% for her (that's a really unreasonable expectation from her) and she can't lash out at you just because you can't do that. Sounds like you're walking on eggshells to keep her happy and she's being a selfish, immature brat. Have you guys talked about the other problems. Given that she has OCD, is it possible that she sees some of your actions as controlling, too, and that she's rebelling/reacting to them by her actions?


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## Mavash.

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I agree, Mavash. This isn't about leg-shaving, it's about control.


In her mind her life is in chaos so she controls things she can like whether or not to shave or not. I bet she has a mountain of resentment that isn't even remotely related to nader. It's easier to blame him though because the alternative requires a cold hard look in the mirror.


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## nader

moxy said:


> EDIT: I read further in the thread and she isn't just caught up in self-neglect, she is actively dismissing your concerns and wishes; there's definitely a power imbalance here. She's taking you for granted, it sounds like. Have you guys been to counseling? Sounds like there are much deeper issues at play here. You can't control the environment 100% for her (that's a really unreasonable expectation from her) and she can't lash out at you just because you can't do that. Sounds like you're walking on eggshells to keep her happy and she's being a selfish, immature brat. Have you guys talked about the other problems. Given that she has OCD, is it possible that she sees some of your actions as controlling, too, and that she's rebelling/reacting to them by her actions?


We're getting the counseling process going.. we met for an intial consultation and then I had a one-on-one. I got LOTS off my chest when I met with the counselor individually. Now the ball is in her court to schedule her one-on-one; she's had the number for a week and hasn't called. 

I asked her if she thought the MC might say something she doesn't want to hear.. she said, well you're the one with the problem.. I said 'No MC is going to tell one person that everything in the marriage is their fault!'

She is purposely or not-purposely holding the MC process hostage and if she doesn't schedule an appointment soon it looks like I'll be having another one-on-one of my own.


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## moxy

nader said:


> We're getting the counseling process going.. we met for an intial consultation and then I had a one-on-one. I got LOTS off my chest when I met with the counselor individually. Now the ball is in her court to schedule her one-on-one; she's had the number for a week and hasn't called.
> 
> She is purposely or not-purposely holding the MC process hostage and if she doesn't schedule an appointment soon it looks like I'll be having another one-on-one of my own.


Can you make an appointment for her and then ask her if she will go to it? And, if she doesn't go, you could use it as your one-on-one appointment (assuming this is the MC who is going to be working with you both and with whom you intend to have a follow-up one-on-one with). It would remove any opportunity for her to make excuses about it and then either she'd have to follow through on her commitment or tell you she doesn't want to do so. 

Of course, if you don't do things like make appointments or calls for her about other things sometimes, then it might seem like game-playing and if that's the case, then don't do it. It sounds like you want her to own up to what she has promised, not push her toward it and that's a good thing, too. 

For your sake, I hope she realizes how serious you are about this. You could, alternatively confront her and just say "It's been a week and you haven't scheduled an appointment. This is really important to me and it is for us to make things better. Will you please prioritize this?" Or some variation which says "I am serious that I need you to do this".


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## Mavash.

My husband was supposed to go to IC. He was going to go in March. It's MAY now and he still hasn't called. Reason? He doesn't want to.

I no longer care because I've figured out how to make this marriage work for ME. His issues are no longer my problem.

Nader my bets on she has no intention of making that appointment.


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## Conrad

Life's much more simple than we make it.

People do that which they want to.

They don't do that which they do not wish to do.

We search for the deep dark meaning. But, usually, this is all there is to it.


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## nader

Conrad said:


> Life's much more simple than we make it.
> 
> People do that which they want to.
> 
> They don't do that which they do not wish to do.
> 
> We search for the deep dark meaning. But, usually, this is all there is to it.


Conrad, I've had responses like this from you in the past. You make it sound hopeless. We still have some great times together.. we're just under some stress and had a rough spat last night.

I love my wife dearly and I know she loves me back. If I really thought we were beyond help I wouldn't be here.. how would you improve a situation like this, or would you at all?

I'm revisiting Athol Kay and I think he makes some good points.. some of it applies and some doesn't.


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## unbelievable

She nags you about your hygiene, plucks stray hair out of your ears, and generally finds your imperfections with laser like precision but your wishes go on the pooh pooh pile? She isn't OCD. Sounds like she's just a little narcissistic and controlling. Her demands will be met or hell will follow. Your requests aren't worth her valuble attention. This crap only works if you give in to it. Resume showering in the morning and quit yielding to the whims of your wookie. When Chewbacca complains, hand her a razor. Nobody died and promoted her to Head Wookie in Charge.


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## Conrad

unbelievable said:


> She nags you about your hygiene, plucks stray hair out of your ears, and generally finds your imperfections with laser like precision but your wishes go on the pooh pooh pile? She isn't OCD. Sounds like she's just a little narcissistic and controlling. Her demands will be met or hell will follow. Your requests aren't worth her valuble attention. This crap only works if you give in to it. Resume showering in the morning and quit yielding to the whims of your wookie. When Chewbacca complains, hand her a razor. Nobody died and promoted her to Head Wookie in Charge.


nader,

Do this


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## Cherie

Shaving in the shower with plain old water can be done in a matter of 3 minutes. She's doing this on purpose. If she can brushe her teeth or make a pot of coffee, she can shave her legs. 

IMO her not shaving, ESPECIALLY since she knows how you feel about it, is her telling you to GTF away from her. She's sending you a sign, loud and clear.

I like the idea of handing her a razor. Hopefully the reasons why she doesn't want you touching her will come out in counseling. Good luck to you.


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## unbelievable

Stop showering alltogether. Tell her that before soap and water touches your body again you'll feel a pair of smooth legs on your wife. In the battle between leg fuzz and man funk, my money's on man funk.


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## chillymorn

eventually you will tie of her poor attitude and see her for who she really is .....and thats a spoiled shrew ...when that happens stick a fork in you because you"ll be done.


my advice is to quit all sex with her and tell her when she wants a true marriage let you know and start finding outside interests.


by the way a true marriage is reciprical in everyway.


not you let the dog chew my slipper so boo hoo .shes the one who left it out in the first place.


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## Runs like Dog

Let the Wookie win.


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## unbelievable

I'm thinking a personalized dog collar, a squeakie ball, and a couple dog cookies left on her pillow.


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## lovelygirl

oh God. I would feel ashamed if my partner saw me with unshaven legs, LET ALONE IF HE TOLD ME TO SHAVE AND I DIDN'T.


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## synthetic

Nader,

Did your wife grow in a male-dominated household or culture? 

These BPD-like traits are very prevalent among women from Eastern cultures who find their inner-child at odds with the overly feminist culture of the west, yet the inner-child rarely wins the fight against their ego, hence BPD-like symptoms. I didn't think about this myself until a professional told me about it. Since then, I'm amazed by the pattern and how true it is in most cases.


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## nader

synthetic said:


> Nader,
> 
> Did your wife grow in a male-dominated household or culture?
> 
> These BPD-like traits are very prevalent among women from Eastern cultures who find their inner-child at odds with the overly feminist culture of the west, yet the inner-child rarely wins the fight against their ego, hence BPD-like symptoms. I didn't think about this myself until a professional told me about it. Since then, I'm amazed by the pattern and how true it is in most cases.


That's an interesting question. I'm sure culture plays into this in ways I don't fully understand yet. She is Puerto Rican/Mexican and a New Yorker. I'm white, Southern, raised Presbyterian. My dad is a pastor and my parents have done counseling.. I've always seen them as a model married couple.

Her parents are still together but don't seem happy. Her dad has made some bad financial decisions which from my understanding is basically costing them their retirement - and I found out very recently that her dad openly - as in, everyone knows it - has a girlfriend/mistress.


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## RandomDude

It's definitely important, at work, on a social level and on an intimate level as well

If the missus doesn't take care of herself I consider that negligence and meh, she can say bye bye to intimacy from me
Thankfully, she maintains herself to perfection, and always has


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## Dollystanford

ghastly - doesn't she...itch...??


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## nader

brief update...

she went to the counselor, after I gave her the 'this is the last time I'm going to mention this' bit. mostly she complained about her job which she wants to quit, which is a whole other thread. 

When she came home last night she started berating me because of a milk bottle left at daycare... and then the puppy chewing stuff and everything else about me that bugs her. We had a big fight. I told her I was depressed and lonely and need her to act like my wife/lover/friend, someone who is happy to see me see and whose company I can enjoy... she didn't' have much of a response. 

I told her I was taking observable, measurable steps to work on things, and that I couldn't see any any evidence that she was doing the same. She told me *that's because they are my steps to take, not hers.* I told her the main problem is that she continues to believe this. 

she was going to sleep on the couch, I couldn't sleep so we watched Modern Family, had a few laughs and went to bed.

This morning she got mad because my alarm went off and that the tapping my razor in the shower woke up the puppy and the baby and now she can't sleep in. I told her that with a baby nobody is entitled to sleep in anymore, not even on our days off. She kind of ignored me while she happily play with the baby.

Her legs are still hairy as f, and she doesn't care.

there's more but I'm going to have to start a new thread when I have the energy. I am positively miserable today


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## MEM2020

Nader,
If it was me - I would do two things different:
1. Stop being stubborn about things that rub her OCD raw. If you want a shower in the morning take it. But if she likes it a lot better when you shower at night - make the 5 minutes to do so
2. Stop letting her treat you in a way she wouldn't accept in reverse




QUOTE=nader;745531]The legs are a symptom of bigger things, of course. I wasn't planning on going here, but here we go.

hygiene-wise I'm doing just fine. There are isolated occasions where I opt to shower in the morning instead of before bed, but it's few and far between, and I feel it's my prerogative to do so. If I skip the before-bed shower I know I'm less likely to get certain treatment, and some nights I'm ok with that.

general attentiveness around the house is an issue.. for which I've started taking Adderall. It helps... sort of, but I'm still adjusting to it and its' a little weird. 

We have a puppy.. the puppy likes to chew things.. sometimes I don't take proper precautions and we lose a flip flop while I'm on the laptop. This happened yesterday while I was at work.. not my finest moment. 

Earlier that morning she was irritated because I had left the dog in the cage.. to prevent things like that from happening! I let the dog out - because she asked me to - and forgot to move a couple things out of the way. Monitoring a toddler and a puppy all day while she's at work is challenging.. it's easy to make mistakes. She's right to be irritated but not to lose her temper, swearing, completely overreacting. An incident like this shouldn't put a damper on the entire evening, but it does.

Generally if I confront her about something she procrastinates/refuses to do - reasonable things like sex stuff, decluttering/organizing areas of the house that are her responsibility... the pattern is for her to use lame excuses like the above, or to throw all my shortcomings back in my face rather than addressing my concern.

I've seen a counselor twice for ADD and marriage stuff. To me it's marriage counseling. To her it's 'fix everything that's wrong with my husband' counseling. I've had my one-on-one and expressed most of this stuff to the counselor.. I think she understands.

It is her turn to call and make an appointment for her one-on-one. What bothers me more than her hairy legs is that *she's had the number for a week and she hasn't called because she has 'other things on her mind.'*


It's the same thing as not shaving her legs.. 

I've taken steps to work on these issues, I was the one who sought out the counselor.. last night she told me to my face "you're the problem, not me." as if I'm the only one who has stuff to work on.

This is what bothers me the most... that I've taken measurable steps.. I am raked across the coals for every mistake, and told that whatever marital issues we are having are *my fault and only mine.*

this morning, she practically melted when I brought in her mother's day present. We had great 'mothers' day sex' focused almost entirely on her pleasure and it was lovely.

But none of that seems to matter when she's mad about something.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nader

Our fighting is the result of my attempts *not* to let her treat me that way. That's 95% of the times we fight.. when I stand up for myself. 

I'm not sure what the middle ground is between defending myself and rolling over like a *****, or if there even is a middle ground.

I'd rather fight than lose my self respect but I don't know how to get through to her.


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## ladybird

It is gross. I can't stand having hair on my legs (and on other parts of my body) I shave a few times a week.. Yuck


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## RandomDude

I always liked having my goatee etc but to look clean cut and professional for work I have to shave 2x a day - but hairy legs... I doubt she even likes them, seems more like negligence to me

However, even though I'm not a woman I do remember times when I just let myself go and it was difficult to get back in business. It's the same when I got lazy and refused to clean up my act, because everything just piled up and stressed me out to the point "ah f--k it"

It seems to me your wife has tons of issues but has to tackle them slowly one by one, not having everything thrown in her face all at once, unfortunately you're also part of that stress


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## heartsbeating

Forgive me, I will be upfront and tell you that I have the flu at the moment (pity party for one over here!) ...so my head is a bit fuzzy (unlike my legs however) but I apologize in advance if I've misread anything. I have still been shaving my legs, despite my nasty flu state. And it's that, to me at least, it's part of hygiene and getting ready, along with brushing my teeth and washing my hair. Unless I reach zilch in energy levels, the legs get shaved! 

I don't understand the showering at night. Do you shower in the morning as well as night? Do some people only shower at night? I'm just curious about this.

You don't feel respected or appreciated. You feel your needs are completely ignored and that she has no desire to attract you/is taking you for granted.

How does she feel in all this? In your opening post, you wrote "I understand she works hard, is pressed for free time and is often exhausted.. however, it would be nice if she would make the effort simply because I've asked her to." I'm speculating for a moment that perhaps she doesn't feel respected or appreciated either. If she's often exhausted, feels pressed for time etc. and hears about shaving of legs, it might be the last thing she needs to hear from you. I'm not saying she's justified in ignoring your needs. I do wonder if her needs are not being met either though. Perhaps she is just zapped and has slightly 'given up' for the moment in her current mindset. Maybe it is a passive aggressive message to you. 

"She's right to be irritated but not to lose her temper, swearing, completely overreacting. An incident like this shouldn't put a damper on the entire evening, but it does." And how do you deal with it when she loses her temper and swears? 


With the counseling - any chance you can just tell her that if she hasn't made the next appointment by [choose a day] then you'll call to go alone? Perhaps communicate calmly that you are disappointed this hasn't been a priority to her. You take your marriage seriously but if she's not getting on board, then go regardless, for yourself. 

She's saying the problem is with you. She isn't able to face the part she is playing in ignoring your needs - and I think there are some personalities that find it particularly hard to admit they are in the wrong/to shoulder some of the blame. Is it possible that she might also have a lot of resentment towards you and that's skewing her view of her part in this?


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## heartsbeating

nader said:


> brief update...
> 
> she went to the counselor, after I gave her the 'this is the last time I'm going to mention this' bit. mostly she complained about her job which she wants to quit, which is a whole other thread.
> 
> When she came home last night she started berating me because of a milk bottle left at daycare... and then the puppy chewing stuff and everything else about me that bugs her. We had a big fight. I told her I was depressed and lonely and need her to act like my wife/lover/friend, someone who is happy to see me see and whose company I can enjoy... she didn't' have much of a response.
> 
> I told her I was taking observable, measurable steps to work on things, and that I couldn't see any any evidence that she was doing the same. She told me *that's because they are my steps to take, not hers.* I told her the main problem is that she continues to believe this.
> 
> she was going to sleep on the couch, I couldn't sleep so we watched Modern Family, had a few laughs and went to bed.
> 
> This morning she got mad because my alarm went off and that the tapping my razor in the shower woke up the puppy and the baby and now she can't sleep in. I told her that with a baby nobody is entitled to sleep in anymore, not even on our days off. She kind of ignored me while she happily play with the baby.
> 
> Her legs are still hairy as f, and she doesn't care.
> 
> there's more but I'm going to have to start a new thread when I have the energy. I am positively miserable today


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## nader

Thanks heartsbeating and whoever else is following this. 

Yesterday was much better, for both of us.

Around lunch she started sending me 'I'm sorry/I love you' texts, which I ignored for a couple hours. Then cutely misspelled texts 'from Isaac' our 15 month old saying 'mommy's sad, she loves you,' etc. 

Finally I txted back: 'Isaac, tell mommy dont' worry, daddy still loves you but he's sad right now.' then I emailed her a link to a youtube video of the song 'Laura' by Girls (great make-up song!). 

Then I let her know that I was having dinner with my sister.. she responded 'O ' Then, "well I'm having dinner with Isaac."

I had a leisurely evening dinner and a stroll in the mall with my sister who's moving soon, so I'm trying to see her as much as I can anyway. No particular rush to get home and no further contact until I called to let her know I was almost back.

She'd taken Isaac to earth fare for some dinner and then errands at Wal-Mart, which gave me time to shower, etc.

She told me she'd had this plan to let me shave her legs in the shower, but I'd already taken mine so maybe next time. I shrugged it off and said we can do it anytime. So that was a good sign.

After Isaac's bath we watched a sitcom, put him to bed, caught up on Game of Thrones and then had hot, rough sex with me dominating a bit more than usual. Both of us were *really* turned on.

I don't think we solved all or any of our deeper problems, but it felt good to win for a change.

I think a good percentage of this is job related stress that gets taken out on me. Yesterday she was off and I'd made a point of giving her lots of space and taking some for myself as well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she has a much better shift today.


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## nader

she FINALLY shaved yesterday. At long last.

It's really because we're going to be at a family function, with a pool.. but if that's what it takes, at least she got the job done.

Other issues I've brought in this thread.. we've had ups and downs since i last posted here. But I'm at least happy for the ups.


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## rks1

Glad that things are going better for the two of you.

As far as shaving legs goes, this issue is hugely cultural... though western ideology has been permeating other cultures now. There is nothing at all gross about unshaven legs in a woman, any more than in a man. Women only started shaving regularly in this culture in the last century. It wasn't done before that. I am big into yoga, and I've heard Indian yogis mention that we are creating long-term health issues by removing hair that is supposed to be there (as it has energetic functions in the body... think of acupuncture). It is not at all the same thing as not brushing one's teeth. You can have excellent hygiene and yet not shave your legs (just as most men don't). Women and men both naturally have hair for a reason. I admit that I still unfortunately shave my legs due to the cultural pressure. However, without this pressure, I would never shave, as I personally have no problem with my own hair. I do understand the issue of preferences, just as I prefer my husband shave his face or trim his chest/groin hair. I get that. But I do understand that these are my preferences due to socialization and have nothing at all to do with hygiene. 

That being said, the problem here has little to wish shaving of legs, and more to do about power trips between the two of you. That is a lot more telling about the relationship.


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## Gaia

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> there's a hell of a lot worse things than leaving a baby bottle somewhere or a chewed slipper.


omg no there ISN'T!! that is THE end of the world RIGHT there!!!


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## EleGirl

Stop taking showers/baths. When she finally complains about your stink.. tell her that you will shower when she shaves. :rofl:


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## EleGirl

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I love the way evil minds think.


My kids tell me I am very evil.. it's fun to be evil. :smthumbup:


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## rks1

EleGirl said:


> Stop taking showers/baths. When she finally complains about your stink.. tell her that you will shower when she shaves. :rofl:


Shaving has nothing to do with a woman's hygiene. Most guys don't shave their legs, and I have never considered them unhygienic for that. These are strange imposed cultural standards.


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## Gaia

Probably brought about by the elven factor... Since elves were fair skinned, beautiful, and hairless except on thier head, eyebrows and lashes.


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## Gaia

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> This is true, but I think the point of nader's story is that her not shaving really bothers him. He finds it unattractive, and she should do it because it makes him happy. She's his wife and you're supposed to want to please the person you love.


:iagree:


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

Gaia said:


> :iagree:


:iagree:
i agree with gaia agreeing with ladyfrog


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## Gaia

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> :iagree:
> i agree with gaia agreeing with ladyfrog


:lol: Your too funny 2nd!!


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## SunnyT

But.... now that she has shaved them... i suggest you use positive reinforcement. Maybe lotion up her legs with some smelly lotion and massage them and talk it up...how much her smooth legs look hot.


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## EleGirl

rks1 said:


> Shaving has nothing to do with a woman's hygiene. Most guys don't shave their legs, and I have never considered them unhygienic for that. These are strange imposed cultural standards.


I did not say that shaving legs has anything to do with hygiene.

Women all over the world have been removing hair from their legs, arms, eyebrows, etc for centuries. Many believe that it makes women look prettier.


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## Dollystanford

the first time I saw a german woman on the beach and she raised her arms to show an effing TOUPEE under each one I was mesmerised

I can't bear hair on my legs or under my arms, it feels disgusting


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## heartsbeating

rks1 said:


> Glad that things are going better for the two of you.
> 
> As far as shaving legs goes, this issue is hugely cultural... though western ideology has been permeating other cultures now. There is nothing at all gross about unshaven legs in a woman, any more than in a man. Women only started shaving regularly in this culture in the last century. It wasn't done before that. I am big into yoga, and I've heard Indian yogis mention that we are creating long-term health issues by removing hair that is supposed to be there (as it has energetic functions in the body... think of acupuncture). It is not at all the same thing as not brushing one's teeth. You can have excellent hygiene and yet not shave your legs (just as most men don't). Women and men both naturally have hair for a reason. I admit that I still unfortunately shave my legs due to the cultural pressure. However, without this pressure, I would never shave, as I personally have no problem with my own hair. I do understand the issue of preferences, just as I prefer my husband shave his face or trim his chest/groin hair. I get that. But I do understand that these are my preferences due to socialization and have nothing at all to do with hygiene.
> 
> *That being said, the problem here has little to wish shaving of legs, and more to do about power trips between the two of you. That is a lot more telling about the relationship.*


I did write shaving my legs and hygiene in the same sentence, but I agree with you for the most part - that shaving of legs is not related to hygiene. Poor wording on my part. 

I also agree with LFFA, that our preferences are largely related to culture and upbringing. I personally prefer the feel of being shaven compared to my natural state... no doubt as a result of my upbringing and such. But there ya have it. 

Certainly agree with your last point too.


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## nader

Lady frog and those who agree with her have it right. As her husband I can make certain requests, and expect her to follow through, for me, her awesome husband.

call it hygiene, call it personal maintenance.. the point is, most American guys *don't* like hairy legs on a woman... it may be unfair, but we usually have to pay for dinner and most of us have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get laid. So we should be able to ask for a few things too.

She could make the effort to look nice for me.

Of course I'm thrilled she did it.. I spent some time admiring and stroking her legs. I know full well it was about not embarrassing herself at the pool, and not really for me, or she would have done it ages ago when I started bugging her.

She did say she was sorry she let it get like that and that she'd try to maintain it for me. We'll see how that goes. Unfortunately she's spent hours this weekend shopping for a swimsuit, and of course sexytime is the first thing to get cut  I am just dying to enjoy those legs.


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## endlessgrief

It's a sad fact that some people (not just women) fail to keep themselves up once they have married. They figure "why try? I already got my catch." 

A lot of people never say anything to their spouse and let their feelings fester which leads to resentment. It is very good that you told her how you feel. You gotta get that off your chest. I hope she keeps it up.


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## Cara

Personally, I like having my leg hair grown out, but my husband does not. He is the only reason I shave and it really isn't a huge deal. Before I met him I hadn't shaved for years. I felt sexier with the hair & most of the men I dated appreciated that I felt sexier that way.

If its a huge deal to you, perhaps save up for laser hair removal. Not everyone is a good candidate because of skin & hair color & it is very expensive, but it could be a solution both of you could live with.


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## RandomDude

VS










Easy choice


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## sinnister

Women do the whatever you want with your leg hair but make sure you pluck those toe knuckles.

Hairy feet on a woman = Sinnister poison.


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## heartsbeating

^ :rofl:


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## GhostRydr

Is she african american or Indian cuz in some women its cultural...BUT..did she shave during the dating process? If so, she has gotten way too comfortable in the marriage.

Does she wear nothing but pants? I cant stand it when a woman doesnt take time to put on a nice skirt or sundress.

Did she also stop shaving her armpits as well?

Tell her if you wanted hairy legs rubbing on you you would sleep with a dude. 

Theres a a lot of westernization I DONT LIKE in todays women but shaving isnt one of them!


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## MEM2020

*lets start here*

Nader,
I also would be distressed if my W deprioritized something which is really not difficult to do. 

HOWEVER,
I would focus on the swearing/losing her temper with you. THAT is much more toxic to the marriage because it erodes respect. 

You need to have a brief low key conversation where you give her a pen and paper and you take one yourself. And then you alternate telling each other love buster behavior. 

You write down what she tells you - and writes down what you tell her. And you put the lists side by side on the fridge. 







nader said:


> The legs are a symptom of bigger things, of course. I wasn't planning on going here, but here we go.
> 
> hygiene-wise I'm doing just fine. There are isolated occasions where I opt to shower in the morning instead of before bed, but it's few and far between, and I feel it's my prerogative to do so. If I skip the before-bed shower I know I'm less likely to get certain treatment, and some nights I'm ok with that.
> 
> general attentiveness around the house is an issue.. for which I've started taking Adderall. It helps... sort of, but I'm still adjusting to it and its' a little weird.
> 
> We have a puppy.. the puppy likes to chew things.. sometimes I don't take proper precautions and we lose a flip flop while I'm on the laptop. This happened yesterday while I was at work.. not my finest moment.
> 
> Earlier that morning she was irritated because I had left the dog in the cage.. to prevent things like that from happening! I let the dog out - because she asked me to - and forgot to move a couple things out of the way. Monitoring a toddler and a puppy all day while she's at work is challenging.. it's easy to make mistakes. She's right to be irritated but not to lose her temper, swearing, completely overreacting. An incident like this shouldn't put a damper on the entire evening, but it does.
> 
> Generally if I confront her about something she procrastinates/refuses to do - reasonable things like sex stuff, decluttering/organizing areas of the house that are her responsibility... the pattern is for her to use lame excuses like the above, or to throw all my shortcomings back in my face rather than addressing my concern.
> 
> I've seen a counselor twice for ADD and marriage stuff. To me it's marriage counseling. To her it's 'fix everything that's wrong with my husband' counseling. I've had my one-on-one and expressed most of this stuff to the counselor.. I think she understands.
> 
> It is her turn to call and make an appointment for her one-on-one. What bothers me more than her hairy legs is that *she's had the number for a week and she hasn't called because she has 'other things on her mind.'*
> 
> 
> It's the same thing as not shaving her legs..
> 
> I've taken steps to work on these issues, I was the one who sought out the counselor.. last night she told me to my face "you're the problem, not me." as if I'm the only one who has stuff to work on.
> 
> This is what bothers me the most... that I've taken measurable steps.. I am raked across the coals for every mistake, and told that whatever marital issues we are having are *my fault and only mine.*
> 
> this morning, she practically melted when I brought in her mother's day present. We had great 'mothers' day sex' focused almost entirely on her pleasure and it was lovely.
> 
> But none of that seems to matter when she's mad about something.


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## Blue Moon

RandomDude said:


> VS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easy choice


Holy sh*t


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## thegatewalker

Step one buy some achool and hot wax
Step two get wife really when passed out move to next step
Step three apply hot wax
Step foure find a good hiding place next morning
Enjoy freshly waxed leggs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602

Nader I think this is a little bigger than hairy legs. It is such an easy thing to shave your legs. Soap them up in the shower and in 2 min flat their done. 

The cursing and resistance makes this not about the shaving, I don't think. What do you think? It says that you her husband is not important enough to accommodate. 

My impression is that you let this go too easily. The shaving should have been dropped and the attitude taken up. What do you feel about cooling things off a bit? 

Sometimes, the best way to get someones attention is to change your appearance. Could you get a new haircut, buy some shirts that are different color than usual, update your wardrobe? Wear some new aftershave. Anything to make her notice. 

Maybe take up a new hobby that takes you out of the house on occasion. She may be to sure of you. Make her notice you and make your self as attractive as possible. 

Nothing overt or disrespectful to her like flirting. Just become the chick magnet that you were before you got married. Make it so that she feels that she has to watch you lest you get away. 

I think you need to get back her respect that may be missing.


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## Chelle D

sinnister said:


> Women do the whatever you want with your leg hair but make sure you pluck those toe knuckles.
> 
> Hairy feet on a woman = Sinnister poison.


LOL my sister in law once told me, that if she becomes an invalid, or something really sick in bed, etc, that one of us sis-in-laws would have to come & shave her toes. She didn't care about the legs, but I guess her hubby doesn't know she has to shave her big toes & she doesn't want it to get gross!


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## Chelle D

I missed this thread when it first came out.

I'd be in big trouble with hubs!.. I absolutely HATE to shave my legs.
& the maintenance is just atrocious. I usually shave for doc appts.. if I wear a skirt, or capris to work (rare), etc.

But, I have trouble bending down & seeing them in shower. I have trouble feeling in lower ankles & feet.. 

So last time I gave/donated blood.. I shaved low ankles, because of the shoes & if pant legs rise up when laying there giving blood, etc, don't want to be embarassed.... But then 3 days later, I have this bad little infection going on on left ankle. still don't know if it was a spider bite, or a nick from shaving. I try to "pop" it. Week later. I 'm in the hospital with an I-V drip for the infected ankle & they have to cut out some dead skin tissue.

I've been EXTREMELY leery of shaving since. True, I still do shave every once in a great while, but never during "morning" routine/shower.. Becuase I'm usually pushing time . I do NOT want to rush it shaving anymore for fear of a nick.

I used to not worry about nicks & cuts shaving... which happen quite often since I cant really see the legs well in shower. But Now, I'm just about afraid to get any.

But.. I THINK anyway... If hubbys specifically asked me to shave for him.. and he commented about how smooth they were & fondled & rubbed them and appreciated the shaving..

I'd probably be much more apt to do it for him.


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