# They're "just friends"



## mtn.lioness

I've been poking around the site for the last week or so. 

My husband has come back from a 3 month training. He's now home. He met a "friend" during that time and was constantly talking with her, in person, over the phone or texting. He admits he's at fault and that he should have spent that time and energy on me, but he choose not to. While fighting during the first 2 days of his return, he has chosen to continue to talk to her, telling me that he will continue and there's nothing I can do. 

He now openly texts her, smiles, and turned the volume up on his key strokes and incoming/outgoing notifications. It was on silence before. It hurts. He continues to say "their just friends." She is married with kids, one as young as 7 months old. I had contacted her husband to let him know, he must be in denial or simply doesn't care or perhaps they have a relationship that allows this sort of thing. My husband said he approached him and took him outside to talk, she joined them and they all understand now whats going on. 

My husband admitted that the relationship was/is inappropriate in one minute, then insists they're friends and he's not going to stop talking to her. She's even sending him pictures of herself. Her husband responded to my email, stating its my 'crazy-minded' idea that this is more. The sheer amount of time and dedication these two have with one another... 

My husband wants a divorce, but while talking yesterday I said we should wait 3 months to see if anything changes. He agreed to that. And insists on holding me. He spent over an hour holding me and telling me he loves me. I was an idiot and thought we were making progress and I went to kiss him. He pulled away from me and said he's not "ready." 

That hurt. I asked him to leave, get out of my bed and my room. He did, 5 minutes later he came back. He pulled my kids into the room to have them listen to an audiobook and snuggle in the bed. The kids were so happy and we all ended up falling asleep. I woke to find my kids in their beds and he was holding me again. Throughout the night I tried to roll over to give space, he was right there and didn't let me go. It was nice and I fell asleep after each attempt. But it got to be 6am and I was awake and hurt. I asked him to stop trying to hold me. He asked if he should go in the "other room" (all of his stuff from the training is in the guest room, where he's been) I said yes. 

Its too hard and he's giving me mixed messages. Its really causing me to be depressed and anxious.


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## ScubaSteve61

Lesson one: If your spouse ever says they're "just friends", they are absolutely not just friends.


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## mablenc

*"My husband wants a divorce, but while talking yesterday I said we should wait 3 months to see if anything changes. He agreed to that. And insists on holding me. He spent over an hour holding me and telling me he loves me. I was an idiot and thought we were making progress and I went to kiss him. He pulled away from me and said he's not "ready."*

This is called cake eating, he wants you there in case the OW is not willing to give up her marriage.

read this:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## The Middleman

mtn.lioness said:


> My husband wants a divorce, but while talking yesterday I said we should wait 3 months to see if anything changes. He agreed to that. And insists on holding me. He spent over an hour holding me and telling me he loves me. I was an idiot and thought we were making progress and I went to kiss him. He pulled away from me and said he's not "ready."


Give him is wish, divorce him, hire a Shark and make him miserable. I'm sure you have more self respect than to put up with that crap. He sounds like "shoe scrapings" to me.


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## mtn.lioness

Thanks... I have said the exact expression: he wants his cake and eat it too. 

It is so difficult when her spouse is fine with it and the two of them carry on like its high school. They're both cops!!! How about a little professionalism. Sorry, I'm frustrated.

I start to think, is it me? Am I the jealous type? But I know it can't be me. The 2 of them are dictating to their spouses that this is happening and there is really nothing we can do about it.


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## mtn.lioness

The Middleman said:


> Give him is wish, divorce him, hire a Shark and make him miserable. I'm sure you have more self respect than to put up with that crap. He sounds like "shoe scrapings" to me.


whats shoe scrapings?


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## ScubaSteve61

mtn.lioness said:


> whats shoe scrapings?


That piece of gum or dog mess you stepped in on the sidewalk and scrape off the bottom of your shoe.


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## kristin2349

Shoe scrapings would be dog crap...


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## norajane

Wait - your husband has already told you he wants a divorce? When did he do that?

If he wants a divorce, I guess I'm not surprised that he doesn't care what you think about his new "friend". I would guess that he wouldn't care what you think about anything at this point if you two have already been talking divorce.


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## The Middleman

mtn.lioness said:


> whats shoe scrapings?


You know, when you step in nasty stuff in the street and it get's on the bottom of your shoes. Shoe scrapings were more common before all the pooper scooper laws.


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## azteca1986

mtn.lioness said:


> It is so difficult when her spouse is fine with it and the two of them carry on like its high school. They're both cops!!! How about a little professionalism. Sorry, I'm frustrated.


If it was just the email, you have no way of knowing if she intercepted it and replied herself or prepped him already.



> I start to think, is it me? Am I the jealous type? But I know it can't be me. The 2 of them are dictating to their spouses that this is happening and there is really nothing we can do about it.


It's not you, it's him.Your husband as brought a third person into the marriage which is one too many. His lack of regard for your feelings, the way he's rubbing your nose in his affair means you probably ought to give him te divorce he asked for.

Your marriage won't survive with her around anyway,


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## Pluto2

It is not you. He is having an affair.
He has crossed the line and at the moment, has no repercussions. Tell him to leave. Contact an attorney and start implementing the 180. None of this means that you must go through with a divorce. But he needs to quickly learn what leaving his family will feel like. Right now he has a girlfriend and a wife. That is one too many people in any relationship.


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## TRy

mtn.lioness said:


> My husband wants a divorce, but while talking yesterday I said we should wait 3 months to see if anything changes. He agreed to that.


 In saying that he wanted a divorce he was calling your bluff, and you backed down. Now that he has established that you will do nothing for fear of divorce, he feels free to flaunt his inappropriate relationship with the other woman (OW) right in your face knowing that you will do nothing.



mtn.lioness said:


> And insists on holding me. He spent over an hour holding me and telling me he loves me.


 He does not really want a divorce, he wants to cake eat.



mtn.lioness said:


> I was an idiot and thought we were making progress and I went to kiss him. He pulled away from me and said he's not "ready."


 He does not want to cheat on the OW with you.

The best odds at saving your marriage is to be willing to end it. File for divorce and mean it. It is not a sure thing that he will pick you, but the odds get worse everyday that this goes on. If he is willing to let you divorce him because he values his relationship with the OW more than his marraige to you, then you should get a divorce and find someone that makes you their number one priority. Without telling your husband in advance, tell the other woman's husband (OWH) that your husband chose keeping his relationship with OWH's wife over his marriage to you. Let him know that your husband has made it clear to you that his friendship with the OWH's wife is his top priory, and that your husband will not even kiss you since he got back from that trip with the OWH's wife. Warn the OWH that because of this, your husband stated that he wanted a divorce, which you are giving him, and that your soon to be ex-husband is back on the dating market again. Tell the OWH that when his wife one day gives him the same divorce speech that your husband gave you, that he should feel free to call you if he needs someone to talk to that would understand. This should get the OWH thinking.


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## Chaparral

Have you told the other womans husband that your husband now wants a divorce,,,,,,,,,,to be with her?


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## mtn.lioness

Chaparral said:


> Have you told the other womans husband that your husband now wants a divorce,,,,,,,,,,to be with her?


He's not saying its to be with her. 

Her husband has asked me to stop contacting him. I messaged him once to let him know that the EA is happening, then again to report that my husband has feelings. He responded that I'm dragging him into this craziness or something to effect.


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## ScubaSteve61

mtn.lioness said:


> He's not saying its to be with her.
> 
> Her husband has asked me to stop contacting him. I messaged him once to let him know that the EA is happening, then again to report that my husband has feelings. He responded that I'm dragging him into this craziness or something to effect.


Her husband:


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## JadedHusband

It sounds like you've got more issues than just your husband's new found friend. 

If he is asking you for a divorce and refusing to kiss you I wouldn't concern yourself too much with his friend. If her husband won't help you there isn't much you can do to stop them from contacting each other. 

File for divorce. That might wake him up to what he's losing.


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## alte Dame

He is focused on the OW. She is what gets his juices flowing. You are just some comfortable background noise to him that moves to the foreground once in a while. This is when he comes back to you for a bit.

He said he wants a divorce. I would say, "OK. She's all yours. Go find your bliss." I wouldn't let him treat me with such disrespect.

The chances are there that he will be shaken out of his idiocy when you file for the divorce, but I don't think there's a chance of that happening if you don't file. He doesn't respect you now because you are letting him cake-eat. Show him you respect yourself by telling him he can have his divorce & that you won't be treated like this.


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## Sudra

If he and his AP think they're just friends, I highly suggest you get the book, "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass and read it. Try to get him to read it.

Seriously, it's an affair. He either won't admit it to you, or he won't admit it to himself.


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## lewmin

mtn lioness....Whoa hold on there.

It seems that your contact with the OWH was via email, correct? 

First of all how do you know that the response you got was actually from the OWH? How do you know it was not intercepted. 

Also, your husband told you that he had a discussion with the OWH and it is accepted by him? How do you know that this took place?

So, I think what you need to do is to get real proof (if you have it), and personally get this in the hands of the OWH. This may change the whole landscape.

p.s. do not give your husband a heads up on any contact you plan to have with the OWH.


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## norajane

Hmm, well, if OP's husband doesn't give a crap what she says, what makes people think that the OW will give a crap what her husband says even if he ever does agree that they are more than "friends"? 

Sure, you might try to meet with OW's husband in person in case your emails were intercepted, but honestly, I hope you have more of a game plan than that since OW's husband can't do diddly-squat to change the OP's husband's feelings for the OW. He's still going to be pining for her and wanting a divorce.


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## Foghorn

Where is that post about "Let Them Go"? That's very apropos.

So sorry you are going through this. It is the hardest advice to take, but he is deep in the fog and his relationship with the other woman is a pipe dream. Instead of encouraging him back, nice-ing him back, hoping he'll snap out of it, SNAP him out of it.

1) Tell the OW Husband. 
2) Expose to your family. your Wayward Husband's family.
3) Tell him, "You're not ready? Well, I'm not ready to be anybody's Plan B. If you want your "friend" then move out and go be with her." Pack his $h!t in a bag and drop him off at her house.

Don't be a doormat, friend.

best of luck
FH


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## lacey99

sorry you are here- TAM can be very helpful and it can be a lot to soak up...I think for right now who knows what's going to happen w/u 2, but it doesn't matter and doesn't need to be decided today EXCEPT if he can't put you before her (or what you asked of him/no contact) them for right now tell him to leave. for a short period of time last year my husband had an EA and basically put another women first-her needs, her concerns etc-(something I never thought he could/would do) it was presented as "just friends" too- it didn't matter really-if as his wife he can't see how wrong it is (even if it isn't physical yet?) and how hurtful and harmful to you he isn't being a husband to you. As posters said before /you'll read on TAM- he needs to get out of this fog first-don't let him just continue cake and eating it too.


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## turnera

Just go to a lawyer, get a separation agreement filled out, hand it to your husband, and say either sign this or I'm going for the full divorce.

He will NEVER care about you unless you do this.


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## ne9907

mtn.Lioness
Don't you for one millisecond spend another minute doubting yourself!!!!
No, they are not just friends!!!!

Leave the other woman's husband alone, he is obviously a fool, you know the truth.
If you wish ot save the marriage, explain to him why his actions are doubtful. Hell bring him to this site so he feast upon story and story about "just friends" who aren't.

OMG!!! I am very angry at these people who profess they are just friends, Just friends my ass!!!!


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## mtn.lioness

He's gone. He packed his things and left. I took back his phone; my phone. Suspended it so he'd let it go out of his hand. He tried to take it with him. But I took it back and said, this is mine, you have to buy your own things now. He wasn't happy, but it is what it is. He has a passcode locked on the phone. I don't want to see it anyway. 

He's with a family member. She mouthed, "call me later" when she saw us. 

I've already contacted his family and mine when things were happening at the end of his training over a week ago, asking for them to support us through this and help us keep our marriage going. He's upset that I contacted them, but he said he understood. He doesn't want an ear bashing. But no one is supporting his decision to abandon his wife and kids over a "friend" 

He says he's going to stay at the homeless shelter. Whatever. I'm not going to be sympathetic to his inability to maintain a family home. 

I've been doing this by myself, his training didn't pay squat. 

The thing that kills me the most is that my kids are suffering and he could care less. His "friend" is more important to him.


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## turnera

All part of the script, lioness. You're doing good. Stay strong. These things can go a hundred different ways.


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## jnichk76

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mtn.lioness

Thanks everyone. I'm just so upset and hurt... he's so cold and then caring... it was too confusing. I'm 1000 miles from my home... but I think the best thing for us to do is continue with our lives, I have an excellent job... and my kids are established in their school/daycare... I can do this by myself...


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## TRy

mtn.lioness said:


> He says he's going to stay at the homeless shelter. Whatever. I'm not going to be sympathetic to his inability to maintain a family home.
> 
> I've been doing this by myself, his training didn't pay squat.


 Are you saying that you pay most of the bills and are the primary breadwinner?


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## mtn.lioness

I just opened his phone and found everything. He's waiting for her. They're not just friends.


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## mtn.lioness

TRy said:


> Are you saying that you pay most of the bills and are the primary breadwinner?


I pay everything. I got him into that academy where he found her and I've kept this house afloat


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## alte Dame

I'm sorry. Sadly, it is all part of a script and easy to call.

I would get to a lawyer asap. I would also expose them both. Back up the texts/e-mails for yourself.

Again, sorry.


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## Chaparral

mtn.lioness said:


> He's not saying its to be with her.
> 
> Her husband has asked me to stop contacting him. I messaged him once to let him know that the EA is happening, then again to report that my husband has feelings. He responded that I'm dragging him into this craziness or something to effect.


I did not say he said that, although its painfully obvious, 
remember alls fair in love and war. Besides, he is lying like a rug. You can too.


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## Daisy10

There is a book called "Not just friends" that might help you. I have only skimmed it but I think it could enlighten you.


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## Chaparral

Never mind my last post. 

Its definitely time to talk in person to the OWH. Though I cant see you wanting to save this ship.


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## 86857

Get the VERY best lawyer you can - WS will try & get money from you in the settlement & sounds as if he has a nasty streak. 

So what is he going to do - move in with OW and her children including her 7 month old baby????? & have her support him??? And what does her husband think now?????
OW may be getting more than she bargained for!

I have a very strong feeling he will be back begging you to take him back - for financial reasons & when OW realises just what she has got.

Prepare yourself. You would want to think long & hard to take back such a cruel arrogant man - the way he texted her & turned his volume up on the phone so you could hear it was sick & vindictive. Then he wanted you to cuddle up to him in bed? Playing good guy, bad guy which is crazy-making for you & exactly the way abusive people behave.

I'm SO sorry you are being put through this.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## mtn.lioness

I'm in shock. I've read everything. 

We don't have kids together. We just got married 7 months ago. There's no way to get it annulled.


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## MattMatt

May I suggest this course of action?









If done hard enough you can launch him right back to the house of the Odd Couple. Where I'm sure they'll all be very, very happy indeed.


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## JadedHusband

What a bastard...

I try not to wish bad things on people and especially people I don't know but this guy is asking for it. 

Take that new info to her husband and see how he feels about it now.


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## mtn.lioness

help on dealing with this with my kids? 

they were babies when i left their dad.... this is a whole different ball game... they're 5 and 8..just about to turn 9


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## MattMatt

mtn.lioness said:


> help on dealing with this with my kids?
> 
> they were babies when i left their dad.... this is a whole different ball game... they're 5 and 8..just about to turn 9


Well, you might not have any real choice in the matter. Your husband might file for divorce.


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## LongWalk

Sorry, I did not understand. You said they were both cops. Did you mean your WH and OW or OW and her husband?

Is your husband a policeman who has been on a course to give him better employment opportunities? You should get all money you shelled out back from him.

Seven month? He lied out of his azz to you. This guy is shoe scrappings... sorry TAM does not allow name calling, but couldn't help but agree with the description. He is a weak character. I think he had sex with her. Maybe she put handcuffs on him or something and he has lost his mind.


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## turnera

mtn.lioness said:


> help on dealing with this with my kids?
> 
> they were babies when i left their dad.... this is a whole different ball game... they're 5 and 8..just about to turn 9


If you've been married less than a year, just move on. Literally, I mean. When your kids are adults, they won't even remember him. And you'll be busy with a MUCH better life.


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## highwood

Sorry you are here...you are doing the right thing.

The "just friends" thing is probably what the majority of us have heard. I believed it for about a week until I get into H's email and saw I love you, I can't wait to live with you, etc. etc....definently not things that "friends" say to each other


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## TRy

mtn.lioness said:


> I just opened his phone and found everything. He's waiting for her. They're not just friends.


OK. Immediately tell the other woman's husband (OWH) that you now have 100% proof that they are more than just friends, and that your husband moved out to be with her. Let the OWH also know that your husband asked for a divorce, and that dealing with the affair is now on him as you will be moving forward with the divorce request.


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## mtn.lioness

LongWalk said:


> Sorry, I did not understand. You said they were both cops. Did you mean your WH and OW or OW and her husband?
> 
> Is your husband a policeman who has been on a course to give him better employment opportunities? You should get all money you shelled out back from him.
> 
> Seven month? He lied out of his azz to you. This guy is shoe scrappings... sorry TAM does not allow name calling, but couldn't help but agree with the description. He is a weak character. I think he had sex with her. Maybe she put handcuffs on him or something and he has lost his mind.


My stbxh and the OW went through the police academy together. 

Thats the training he was in for the last 3 months. 

He begins his assignment on the 18th. 

We've been working towards this for years. We just married in March. We've been together going on 4 years. 

I believe they had sex, too.


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## diwali123

New here and devastated
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/showpost.php?p=5458850


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## mtn.lioness

TRy said:


> OK. Immediately tell the other woman's husband (OWH) that you now have 100% proof that they are more than just friends, and that your husband moved out to be with her. Let the OWH also know that your husband asked for a divorce, and that dealing with the affair is now on him as you will be moving forward with the divorce request.


He lives so far from me, I can't hand deliver them, but I sent them to his Facebook. they have painted me as crazy... i hope he takes his time to look at the pictures of the text messages. They have a 7 month old baby... he has the right to know. I'd want to know.

Now that I think of it, the academy knew. They had this slide show and they had a handful of pictures of the two of them together, smiling at one another, then snuggling in the backseat of the squad. I think the woman who put together the show was trying to be like, we know - and here's what we could gather. I know I'm reading into this... but I have a hard time believing that so many pictures of them just happened to be showing them as love birds. I pointed them out to my husband and he said, thats nothing. 

Sigh...

He's staying with his aunt. She called and asked what happened. I gave her my side of the story and she listened. She cried. She said he's really beating himself up, crying and talking like he was spiraling down... I'm not sympathetic to it. I'm just not. 

Now I need to move on... unpack my bags... I packed them thinking I would fly home and stay with my parents... but I just started my career...I should at least put in enough time to be able to take a job anywhere... I'm only 4 months in...

I just got a notification from her husband that if I contact him again he's pressing harassment charges. Wow. Seriously. Wow.


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## Thorburn

mtn.lioness said:


> He lives so far from me, I can't hand deliver them, but I sent them to his Facebook. they have painted me as crazy... i hope he takes his time to look at the pictures of the text messages. They have a 7 month old baby... he has the right to know. I'd want to know.
> 
> Now that I think of it, the academy knew. They had this slide show and they had a handful of pictures of the two of them together, smiling at one another, then snuggling in the backseat of the squad. I think the woman who put together the show was trying to be like, we know - and here's what we could gather. I know I'm reading into this... but I have a hard time believing that so many pictures of them just happened to be showing them as love birds. I pointed them out to my husband and he said, thats nothing.
> 
> Sigh...
> 
> He's staying with his aunt. She called and asked what happened. I gave her my side of the story and she listened. She cried. She said he's really beating himself up, crying and talking like he was spiraling down... I'm not sympathetic to it. I'm just not.
> 
> Now I need to move on... unpack my bags... I packed them thinking I would fly home and stay with my parents... but I just started my career...I should at least put in enough time to be able to take a job anywhere... I'm only 4 months in...
> 
> I just got a notification from her husband that if I contact him again he's pressing harassment charges. Wow. Seriously. Wow.


You will have to stop contacting the OW and OWH. For some reason he does not care or he does not believe you.



Step back and breathe. You have time to figure things out. First you have to let your husband go. 

Second, make sure you stay financially sound.

Get an attorney.

If you had sex lately with your WH get tested for StD's


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## turnera

Your first assignment is to see a lawyer, ok? Please protect yourself legally.


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## RClawson

Lioness,

Your husband is a schmuck. It is that cut and dry. Kick his sorry cheatin behind out and let the OWH know since he is ok with this you are sending him over to begin their lives with one another. File tomorrow. Unbelievable! Truly.


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## mtn.lioness

Thorburn said:


> You will have to stop contacting the OW and OWH. For some reason he does not care or he does not believe you.
> 
> 
> 
> Step back and breathe. You have time to figure things out. First you have to let your husband go.
> 
> Second, make sure you stay financially sound.
> 
> Get an attorney.
> 
> If you had sex lately with your WH get tested for StD's


I am done contacting him. It was 3 times over 10 days. First to let him know something was going on, second to let him know my husband admitted he has feelings, and third with the picture evidence of the texts... You are right. I'm done contacting them.

Stepping back.

I did have sex with him in October, during a surprise visit. I need to get tested. I've been noticing something lately and just thought it was something else. Ughhhh friggggg


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## Rushwater

mtn.lioness said:


> I am done contacting him. It was 3 times over 10 days. First to let him know something was going on, second to let him know my husband admitted he has feelings, and third with the picture evidence of the texts... You are right. I'm done contacting them.
> 
> Stepping back.
> 
> I did have sex with him in October, during a surprise visit. I need to get tested. I've been noticing something lately and just thought it was something else. Ughhhh friggggg


Wow! This is going to get really ugly for somebody. Just do not let it be you. I am really sad for you and your situation. If there is any blessing in all of this, it's that you found out very early in the marriage. It's time to protect yourself legally. I have stated in the past, that I do not believe in a scorched Earth policy against cheaters as there is sometimes hope for R. In your situation, however, I am temporarily lifting that rule. Scorched Earth policy is officially in need here! Find a hardcore attourney and get to work!


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## mtn.lioness

Rushwater said:


> Wow! This is going to get really ugly for somebody. Just do not let it be you. I am really sad for you and your situation. If there is any blessing in all of this, it's that you found out very early in the marriage. It's time to protect yourself legally. I have stated in the past, that I do not believe in a scorched Earth policy against cheaters as there is sometimes hope for R. In your situation, however, I am temporarily lifting that rule. Scorched Earth policy is officially in need here! Find a hardcore attourney and get to work!


Thats so sad... but also very motivating for me; I know I did the right thing!


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## Rushwater

mtn.lioness said:


> Thats so sad... but also very motivating for me; I know I did the right thing!


It is sad. BUT, reconciliation is a LLLLOOONNNNNGGGG, difficult process and the person that suffers the most through said process is YOU (and subsequently, your children from another marriage), not the cheater. The question you have to ask yourself is "is my seven month marriage worth all of that trauma, emotional hell, and doubt?". You truly are in a unique position. I know that does not seem like good news at this time, but you have very little ties to this man. You are already a veteran of a marriage gone bad and thus seasoned on how to move on. Presumably, you're still pretty young (I'm guessing early thirties?) and financially independent. Shake this rat from your neck! And one more thing to think about: It is damned hard to be married to a cop. My older sister is married to a cop and her life has been a living hell. (DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT INCRIMINATING ALL POLICE OFFICERS HERE). Aside from having to worry about her husband getting killed on the job day in and day out, he had women throwing themselves at him all day, everyday. He finally succumbed and had multiple affairs. I am only saying that this will simply add to an already difficult situation that you are in. And finally, are you a Christian? If so, then pray for "WISDOM". James 1:5- _If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him._ It worked for me.


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## JadedHusband

I cant believe someone could forsake their vows in 7 months. The OW is so full of herself to think he wont do the same to her. They never think that far into when in the fog
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mtn.lioness

He was "honest" during some parts of our conversation...and we had talked openly, when I thought things were getting better. I asked if he was happy before he left, he said he was. That it happened so quickly for him, he didn't know he fell for her until he was infatuated. Then he recanted. 

This is so difficult... but its best. It really is. He isn't a cop yet. And his assignment isn't technically a cop...but he had to go into the academy... he has been assigned to a remote location where there are no cities; he'll be a security officer. He has an 18 month contract to fulfill and then he could pursue another position in an actual police force. But he'll have to go through another training to get something... until then...idk. She's already a cop and planning on moving to colorado. Apparently she's traveling there than; this is where her husband is from.


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## Working1

Thorburn said:


> You will have to stop contacting the OW and OWH. For some reason he does not care or he does not believe you.
> 
> 
> 
> Step back and breathe. You have time to figure things out. First you have to let your husband go.
> 
> Second, make sure you stay financially sound.
> 
> Get an attorney.
> 
> If you had sex lately with your WH get tested for StD's


The OWH will probably contact you in about 2 weeks, once he starts to realize that you are not crazy and another man is moving in on his wife. He obviously has not fully realized this yet.


----------



## Working1

You could send a text to the OWH and pretend like it is from your H saying that he is sorry but he and the OW will be moving in together. See if he replies to that. Didn't you say that you now have the phone that your H was using to contact the OW before?


----------



## TRy

Working1 said:


> You could send a text to the OWH and pretend like it is from your H saying that he is sorry but he and the OW will be moving in together. See if he replies to that. Didn't you say that you now have the phone that your H was using to contact the OW before?


 That is a very bad idea. Why would the OP want to do that? She has done what is morally right in telling the other woman's husband. She has no further obligation to him. Right now the OP has been in the right and been truthful. Being dishonest now would be crazy.


----------



## mtn.lioness

TRy said:


> That is a very bad idea. Why would the OP want to do that? She has done what is morally right in telling the other woman's husband. She has no further obligation to him. Right now the OP has been in the right and been truthful. Being dishonest now would be crazy.


I'm going with this one... he's already lying to her and telling her crazy stories.. trying to paint me as some crazy ex-wife. I hate that it is generally accepted in society that ex-wives are crazy. I guess folks are supposed to accept an affair and pick up the pieces with grace and tolerance... sorry, tangent. They called me insecure and crazy because I contacted her directly and her husband when I found out. I also contacted his family and mine asking for support and help to get us through this. That was when I thought they were "just friends" my gut told me differently. Am I so insane? Um... no. 

But now I am hurt and in pain... still in shock... I haven't taken my rings off yet...IDK if/when I'll be ready... I know my rings are gold...and yet for the last 2 months I've had a reaction and my skin is chapped around them. Its bizarre. I don't feel like taking them off yet... they're gorgeous... ughhh this is too much! 

I'm laying in bed trying to figure out how I'm going to fall asleep... I'm going to set up an appointment in the morning for counseling. I have had success in the past...

Hind sight is 20/20... I should have known... prior to this training, but I really thought we were fine, better than fine. I thought we were happy. 

I'm going to miss him and I hate that. I hate it so much!


----------



## Remains

I suspect.........




A lot of that kind of activity recently....or maybe I am just noticing more.

.


----------



## turnera

mtn.lioness said:


> Its bizarre. I don't feel like taking them off yet... *they're gorgeous*...


You're right. That IS bizarre. To want to keep wearing them...because they look good? Just sell them and get a NEW ring that is just for YOU.


----------



## ScubaSteve61

turnera said:


> You're right. That IS bizarre. To want to keep wearing them...because they look good? Just sell them and get a NEW ring that is just for YOU.


The soreness will clear up if you take them off for a couple days and use aloe or medicated ointment. To prevent it in the future take your rings off when you wash your hands, or when you dry your hands also dry under and inside the rings. And, if you use hand sanitizer, take the rings off before you use it, and let it be rubbed in and completely dry before you put them back on. W is a PT, has it happen all the time due to excessive hand washing and sanitizing.

Now regarding THESE rings, when you take them off to let your finger heal, do yourself a favor and forget to put them back on.


----------



## manticore

mtn.lioness said:


> They called me insecure and crazy because I contacted her directly and her husband when I found out. I also contacted his family and mine asking for support and help to get us through this. That was when I thought they were "just friends" my gut told me differently. Am I so insane? Um... no.


You did nothing wrong, in fact you did all the right steps that are recommended to ends the affair and give the marriage a chance:

- you identified the red flags without deluding yourself (like the husband).
- you expose them.
- you asked for support to his and your family.
- you requested him to apply NC with the OW.
- you tried MC

don't you dare to regret your actions, nothing of this is your fault, even if it the future you may think that your marriage could have been better if you have done this or that (which I doubt because you even support him financially and emotionally), remember every marriage has their bumps, but that never justify someone having an affair, that is 100% on him.

Unlike many betrayed spouses you did the right steps to end the affair and save your marriage, he is just deep in his affair's fog, but your kids in the future will be proud of you, knowing their mother don't let nobody to trample her, you did not beg or pled (well done), keep moving forward.




mtn.lioness said:


> But now I am hurt and in pain... still in shock... I haven't taken my rings off yet...IDK if/when I'll be ready... I know my rings are gold...and yet for the last 2 months I've had a reaction and my skin is chapped around them. Its bizarre. I don't feel like taking them off yet... they're gorgeous... ughhh this is too much!
> 
> I'm laying in bed trying to figure out how I'm going to fall asleep... I'm going to set up an appointment in the morning for counseling. I have had success in the past...
> 
> Hind sight is 20/20... I should have known... prior to this training, but I really thought we were fine, better than fine. I thought we were happy.
> 
> I'm going to miss him and I hate that. I hate it so much!


Is normal to be in shock and depressed, is time to begin to apply the 180 guide to detach from him, and excercising yourself can also help you to feel better, remember, now your priority are your kids, you are their only anchor now.

you are obviously a strong and independent woman who will overcome this.

Wish you the best of the lucks.


----------



## PappyJack

7 months. It wasn't a marriage, it was a con job.

You are stronger that he is, you can make it.

Find someone new and decent.

You deserve it.


----------



## Working1

TRy said:


> That is a very bad idea. Why would the OP want to do that? She has done what is morally right in telling the other woman's husband. She has no further obligation to him. Right now the OP has been in the right and been truthful. Being dishonest now would be crazy.


Your right, dishonest, I was thinking it would be satisfying to see what was really going on.


----------



## mtn.lioness

manticore said:


> You did nothing wrong, in fact you did all the right steps that are recommended to ends the affair and give the marriage a chance:
> 
> - you identified the red flags without deluding yourself (like the husband).
> - you expose them.
> - you asked for support to his and your family.
> - you requested him to apply NC with the OW.
> - you tried MC
> 
> don't you dare to regret your actions, nothing of this is your fault, even if it the future you may think that your marriage could have been better if you have done this or that (which I doubt because you even support him financially and emotionally), remember every marriage has their bumps, but that never justify someone having an affair, that is 100% on him.
> 
> Unlike many betrayed spouses you did the right steps to end the affair and save your marriage, he is just deep in his affair's fog, but your kids in the future will be proud of you, knowing their mother don't let nobody to trample her, you did not beg or pled (well done), keep moving forward.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is normal to be in shock and depressed, is time to begin to apply the 180 guide to detach from him, and excercising yourself can also help you to feel better, remember, now your priority are your kids, you are their only anchor now.
> 
> you are obviously a strong and independent woman who will overcome this.
> 
> Wish you the best of the lucks.


Thank you; I really needed to read this today...



PappyJack said:


> 7 months. It wasn't a marriage, it was a con job.
> 
> You are stronger that he is, you can make it.
> 
> Find someone new and decent.
> 
> You deserve it.


After some of the statements he made; I believe you might be right about that...a con job... 



turnera said:


> You're right. That IS bizarre. To want to keep wearing them...because they look good? Just sell them and get a NEW ring that is just for YOU.


its not just that... I wasn't ready emotionally...see below...


----------



## mtn.lioness

made an appt for the clinic and they were able to get me in today... good thing I went in... they had "concerns" with my sample... gave me treatments of antibiotics, 4 monster pills and a shot in the ass. I've taken my rings off. Enough is enough!!! 

I came home and flipped through the mail that I set aside for him. The letter was opened and he looked thru all of it. I found a bill from the hospital where he was at. Guess what. He also got treatments and he told me NOTHING. I'm livid! 

When I was at my appt they had me fill out an inventory of my sexual partners. Guess what!?! There was just ONE person on there. 

Gross. Just disgusting!


----------



## tom67

mtn.lioness said:


> made an appt for the clinic and they were able to get me in today... good thing I went in... they had "concerns" with my sample... gave me treatments of antibiotics, 4 monster pills and a shot in the ass. I've taken my rings off. Enough is enough!!!
> 
> I came home and flipped through the mail that I set aside for him. The letter was opened and he looked thru all of it. I found a bill from the hospital where he was at. Guess what. He also got treatments and he told me NOTHING. I'm livid!
> 
> When I was at my appt they had me fill out an inventory of my sexual partners. Guess what!?! There was just ONE person on there.
> 
> Gross. Just disgusting!


Geez sorry to hear that I hope you caught it early.

Maybe You can send om a copy of the findings if you are positive. What a selfish b!tch, sorry I'm hot.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Daisy10 said:


> There is a book called "Not just friends" that might help you. I have only skimmed it but I think it could enlighten you.


:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


----------



## See_Listen_Love

manticore said:


> You did nothing wrong, in fact you did all the right steps that are recommended to ends the affair and give the marriage a chance:
> 
> - you identified the red flags without deluding yourself (like the husband).
> - you expose them.
> - you asked for support to his and your family.
> - you requested him to apply NC with the OW.
> - you tried MC
> 
> don't you dare to regret your actions, nothing of this is your fault, even if it the future you may think that your marriage could have been better if you have done this or that (which I doubt because you even support him financially and emotionally), remember every marriage has their bumps, but that never justify someone having an affair, that is 100% on him.
> 
> Unlike many betrayed spouses you did the right steps to end the affair and save your marriage, he is just deep in his affair's fog, but your kids in the future will be proud of you, knowing their mother don't let nobody to trample her, you did not beg or pled (well done), keep moving forward.
> 
> ....
> 
> you are obviously a strong and independent woman who will overcome this.
> 
> Wish you the best of the lucks.


:iagree: 

You are doing the good things, although it may feel bad now, it will get better.


----------



## mtn.lioness

tom67 said:


> Geez sorry to hear that I hope you caught it early.
> 
> Maybe You can send om a copy of the findings if you are positive. What a selfish b!tch, sorry I'm hot.


You know, with their behaviors lately; I could see them trying to spin it on me somehow. That and I don't want anyone IRL to know ...its humiliating... just doing the entire experience... testing... shots.. pills... it took 2 hours out of my day and made me late to pick up my kids. Not an enjoyable afternoon... 

For example, she told me to leave her husband alone and he said the same thing than my ex called me up and told me to leave them alone... blah blah... I said. Chill.. and they made it like I was starting drama.. you know.. exposing them; I suppose thats drama. Then today she contacts me to let me know he created a new Facebook. I. don't. care. This is a game to them... I'm this ball of yarn and they are cats batting me back and forth. Just leave me be. I've blocked them every way I can think of. 

Then my daughter, my youngest, 5 yrs old, was crying saying she wanted to say goodnight to him... I don't want to call him. What do I do?


----------



## manticore

I am confused here, who created the new FB your husband or OW's husband, and what was the purpose on telling you?, for what I understand she wanted you out of her life.


----------



## mtn.lioness

manticore said:


> I am confused here, who created the new FB your husband or OW's husband, and what was the purpose on telling you?, for what I understand she wanted you out of her life.


I think my husband did...from what the message stated. I don't understand her agenda. Make me jealous? Make me get mad and contact him? Show he's moved on? I've experienced all of these feelings and realizations. I wonder if she's become obsessed with the drama of him ending his marriage for her. She had engaged with me, then turned it around and asked me leave her alone while asking me a question. I learned, not as quick as I typically would had it not been my husbands mistress... that she was baiting me or something... I honestly don't know. He's been immature and I see that they are on the same page about things. I'm not responding. My response was to block her.


----------



## manticore

good for you, you don't need a crazy drama queen in your life, I wonder how will be the OW's husband when he realize that you were right all the time, well it really does not matter probably even if he had believed you the result had been the same, for what I see your husband and wacko woman are in their own fantasy world.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Its past midnight where I am and I got a strange call. Due to my job, I answer calls for emergencies; I don't get many so when they ring its for something urgent. It was the husband. Sounding sad. Wondering why I sent those pictures of the texts to the OWH. I said, "He has a right to know." 

I believe the shhhh has hit the fan in their house... I'm glad I exposed them and I'm glad the OWH is doing with the information as he wants. 

Its technically past midnight and its technically now been 8 months since we got married.


----------



## mtn.lioness

manticore said:


> good for you, you don't need a crazy drama queen in your life, I wonder how will be the OW's husband when he realize that you were right all the time, well it really does not matter probably even if he had believed you the result had been the same, for what I see your husband and wacko woman are in their own fantasy world.


I am human, it would be nice if the OWH said thanks or you were right, but the likelihood isn't good. I just don't know where he's at with that. The way my husband, stbxh, asked why... it was almost like he wanted me to protect him...them? No. this is inappropriate and OWH has a right to know that his marriage is in trouble just as I would have wanted to know.

Stbxh & OW are delusional and I did feel something, like validation, when stbxh revealed that OWH did look at the pictures. 

I won't be contacting him again, due to his clear message that he wants to slap a harassment order on me should I contact him again. But he should get checked out; for his health. I hope he figures it out.


----------



## Aerith

mtn.lioness said:


> made an appt for the clinic and they were able to get me in today... good thing I went in... they had "concerns" with my sample... gave me treatments of antibiotics, 4 monster pills and a shot in the ass. I've taken my rings off. Enough is enough!!!
> 
> I came home and flipped through the mail that I set aside for him. The letter was opened and he looked thru all of it. I found a bill from the hospital where he was at. Guess what. He also got treatments and he told me NOTHING. I'm livid!
> 
> When I was at my appt they had me fill out an inventory of my sexual partners. Guess what!?! There was just ONE person on there.
> 
> Gross. Just disgusting!


Really sorry about that. What a bastard - he knew that he contracted STD and received the treatment but was hiding that from you... 

You should fully extract yourself from this destructive situation - no point to say anything more to your H, OW or OWH. Just go ahead with divorce.

My bet is OWH is enjoying extra marital sexual activities as well...


----------



## turnera

Cheaters ARE delusional. It's called affair fog - turns them into aliens, drug addicts. Exposure is good for attempting to shatter that fog; not always successful, but MUCH better than you hiding out in false shame (HE should be feeling the shame, not YOU). You should get mad and STAY mad. How DARE he con you like this? I hope you told his parents/siblings too.

As for your 5 year old, stbx hasn't been around that long, I think it's best to now just try to move on and pull the bandaid off and remove him from your kids' lives.

How come you can't get an annulment? Legal?


----------



## highwood

Just realize as well that the chances of them working out in the long term are very slim. About a 3% chance that relationships that start as affairs ever work out. They are extremely high risk relationships.

Do not contact her H again...you did your part. If he wants to live with a cheater than by all means let him.


----------



## Sudra

_Then my daughter, my youngest, 5 yrs old, was crying saying she wanted to say goodnight to him... I don't want to call him. What do I do? _

Teach her to use the telephone if she doesn't already know how. Dial the number for her and hand her the phone. I don't think you should ever stop you child from calling her dad, but you don't have to speak to him. 

Limit your conversations with him to finances and kids and only what needs to be discussed. When she calls him, you don't have to stay on the phone to tell him she wants to talk to him. Just let her be on the line when he picks up and they can have their conversation.


----------



## turnera

It's not her dad. It's the guy lioness has been married to for 7 months.


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> Cheaters ARE delusional. It's called affair fog - turns them into aliens, drug addicts. Exposure is good for attempting to shatter that fog; not always successful, but MUCH better than you hiding out in false shame (HE should be feeling the shame, not YOU). You should get mad and STAY mad. How DARE he con you like this? I hope you told his parents/siblings too.
> 
> As for your 5 year old, stbx hasn't been around that long, I think it's best to now just try to move on and pull the bandaid off and remove him from your kids' lives.
> 
> How come you can't get an annulment? Legal?


The state I live in doesn't do annulments unless it was a marriage under duress or something... 



Sudra said:


> _Then my daughter, my youngest, 5 yrs old, was crying saying she wanted to say goodnight to him... I don't want to call him. What do I do? _
> 
> Teach her to use the telephone if she doesn't already know how. Dial the number for her and hand her the phone. I don't think you should ever stop you child from calling her dad, but you don't have to speak to him.
> 
> Limit your conversations with him to finances and kids and only what needs to be discussed. When she calls him, you don't have to stay on the phone to tell him she wants to talk to him. Just let her be on the line when he picks up and they can have their conversation.





turnera said:


> It's not her dad. It's the guy lioness has been married to for 7 months.


He has been in her life since she was 1 years old. He is the only "dad" she knows. We had waited to get married because I took things slow, wanted to make sure this was "it" for me. He had demonstrated his love for us as a family...showed stability, financial responsibility and commitment; he asked my dad for blessings on our engagement. My dad took him aside on our wedding day and stated that he felt he was responsible for my children and me; he asked him if he was ready, prepared and committed to being not just a husband and father, but also a protector, provider and to cherish us. My stbxh shook his hand and promised him he would. 

My dad reminded him of that promise when he spoke to him this last Saturday. 

This entire thing has shocked both of our families, friends and of course.. my girls and me. 

But he's young... I should have known better...


----------



## tom67

mtn.lioness said:


> The state I live in doesn't do annulments unless it was a marriage under duress or something...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has been in her life since she was 1 years old. He is the only "dad" she knows. We had waited to get married because I took things slow, wanted to make sure this was "it" for me. He had demonstrated his love for us as a family...showed stability, financial responsibility and commitment; he asked my dad for blessings on our engagement. My dad took him aside on our wedding day and stated that he felt he was responsible for my children and me; he asked him if he was ready, prepared and committed to being not just a husband and father, but also a protector, provider and to cherish us. My stbxh shook his hand and promised him he would.
> 
> My dad reminded him of that promise when he spoke to him this last Saturday.
> 
> This entire thing has shocked both of our families, friends and of course.. my girls and me.
> 
> But he's young... I should have known better...


I'm sorry don't blame yourself he is just a selfish loser.

I suppose he hasn't made any attempt to contact her.
That's the part that p!sses me off.


----------



## mtn.lioness

tom67 said:


> I'm sorry don't blame yourself he is just a selfish loser.
> 
> I suppose he hasn't made any attempt to contact her.
> That's the part that p!sses me off.


Nope. He hasn't.


----------



## Chaparral

mtn.lioness said:


> I am human, it would be nice if the OWH said thanks or you were right, but the likelihood isn't good. I just don't know where he's at with that. The way my husband, stbxh, asked why... it was almost like he wanted me to protect him...them? No. this is inappropriate and OWH has a right to know that his marriage is in trouble just as I would have wanted to know.
> 
> Stbxh & OW are delusional and I did feel something, like validation, when stbxh revealed that OWH did look at the pictures.
> 
> I won't be contacting him again, due to his clear message that he wants to slap a harassment order on me should I contact him again. But he should get checked out; for his health. I hope he figures it out.


You should tell the clinic you went to who you think is spreading the STD. The question is how many your husband, OW, or her husband has been sleeping with. OWH needs to know, especially since he is being an asshat too.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> You should tell the clinic you went to who you think is spreading the disease. The question is how many your husband, OW, or her husband has been sleeping in. OWH needs to know, especially since he is being an asshat too.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## mtn.lioness

Chaparral said:


> You should tell the clinic you went to who you think is spreading the STD. The question is how many your husband, OW, or her husband has been sleeping with. OWH needs to know, especially since he is being an asshat too.


I had to provide a sexual partner inventory... OW & OWH are from an entirely different community. 

My stbxh met her at the police academy; in a whole different part of the state.

For the record: I'm not contacting OW or OWH anymore.


----------



## Chaparral

mtn.lioness said:


> I had to provide a sexual partner inventory... OW & OWH are from an entirely different community.
> 
> My stbxh met her at the police academy; in a whole different part of the state.
> 
> For the record: I'm not contacting OW or OWH anymore.


I'm sure the health depts share info. I would assume your husband provided truthful answers.

Have you asked him who gave him an std?. He really should be embarassed.

If you want a little revenge, tell him owh told you this isn't the first time she's brought home an unwanted pet.

Good luck, have you found the 180, it can only be linked as its copyrighted.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Chaparral said:


> I'm sure the health depts share info. I would assume your husband provided truthful answers.
> 
> Have you asked him who gave him an std?. He really should be embarassed.
> 
> If you want a little revenge, tell him owh told you this isn't the first time she's brought home an unwanted pet.
> 
> Good luck, have you found the 180, it can only be linked as its copyrighted.


I've read the 180 and I've been working on myself... he contacts me. I have a hard time not picking up the phone. I need to work on that. Not sure how to though... 

Just today I filled out the paperwork for both procedures: a divorce and a dissolution of marriage. He said he wants a divorce, but if we agree to just leave with what we brought into the marriage, just 8 months ago, and since we have no marital property; no kids... I figured this could be fast and easy.

He blocked me after I asked him for an address for the paperwork to be served and/or a time to meet down at the court house the sign them in front of the clerk together. You'd think he'd be all over that! But no... he apparently was really upset by this and has been in and out of the house "needing fresh air" ... I talked with his aunt, the one he's staying with... I'm so confused as to why he'd be upset - he brought it to me to get done ASAP.


----------



## manticore

don't fall in his game, he maybe is playing victim as if is to hard for him to end everything, but then again, his actions speak otherwise, be strict with yourself with 180, maybe in the future he will try to come back to you, but right now your concerns must be your kids and his behaviour is not healthy for you or for them.


----------



## turnera

mtn.lioness said:


> I've read the 180 and I've been working on myself... he contacts me. I have a hard time not picking up the phone. I need to work on that. Not sure how to though...


Do what my therapist told me to do when my H was calling and harrassing me: put a big sticker on the phone so, when I look at it, I remember that I don't have to answer it, or I can take a deep breath to calm myself first if I do. You could even write something on the sticker like "NO!".


----------



## mtn.lioness

Thanks.... That's a really good idea about the sticker..... Hmmmm
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

Turn about is fair play. If the OW contacts you again, then tell her you will file harassment charges against her. Also contact a lawyer, as in certain states, the passing of a STD to an unknowing victim can be a criminal offense. Since he received testing and treatment, then he was not unknowing in his dealings with the STD and exposing you to it.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Squeakr said:


> Turn about is fair play. If the OW contacts you again, then tell her you will file harassment charges against her. Also contact a lawyer, as in certain states, the passing of a STD to an unknowing victim can be a criminal offense. Since he received testing and treatment, then he was not unknowing in his dealings with the STD and exposing you to it.


If OW contacts me; I would gladly tell her that. I hope she doesn't contact me any further though

So.... I went to my first appt with my therapist... She asked me to wait and be open to forgiveness and a second chance if he's willing to work on things. I stressed we've only been married for 8 months! And she said that our history didn't begin 8 months ago. Ughhhhhhh now I'm all confused!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 86857

********** said:


> I have a very strong feeling he will be back begging you to take him back - for financial reasons & when OW realises just what she has got.
> 
> Prepare yourself. You would want to think long & hard to take back such a cruel arrogant man - the way he texted her & turned his volume up on the phone so you could hear it was sick & vindictive. Then he wanted you to cuddle up to him in bed? Playing good guy, bad guy which is crazy-making for you & exactly the way abusive people behave.
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Just reiterating what I posted a few pages back. 

It will take a while for you to adjust to him not being around. That's COMPLETELY NORMAL so don't start beating yourself up about it. Have patience and it will fade away in time. Print out some of their texts and put them up high on your fridge door where the kids can't read them to keep reminding yourself  - similar to the sticker on the phone another poster suggested. 

At least he was around to help you when they your kids were babies and you weren't on your own through that busy time. Your kids are older now and kids adjust quickly. You don't want this POSWH as a father figure! You are still young enough to make a good life for yourself. Thank goodness unlike many BS you have a great job and can support yourself. 

OW has actually done you a favour. You could have spent your whole life with this turkey. He can't support himself, he has an STD and he overnight got infatuated with someone and started thinking about D immediately. Tell OW you're giving him to her as a Christmas present and that she's welcome to him.:noel:

BTW I greatly admire greatly the way you are handling this. Go girl! :smthumbup:I wish I had been as resolute with my turkey.


----------



## turnera

I'd find a different therapist if she tells you this again the next time. She has an agenda.


----------



## 86857

mtn.lioness said:


> So.... I went to my first appt with my therapist... She asked me to wait and be open to forgiveness and a second chance if he's willing to work on things. I stressed we've only been married for 8 months! And she said that our history didn't begin 8 months ago. Ughhhhhhh now I'm all confused!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:wtf:

A 'do gooder' and with a 'turn the other cheek and forgive mentality' which in a case like yours is 'Stick around for more abuse'. 

She's feeble-minded. DON'T LET HER CONFUSE YOU!


----------



## Blacksmith01

turnera said:


> I'd find a different therapist if she tells you this again the next time. She has an agenda.


If it we're me there wouldn't be a next time with that shrink.


----------



## turnera

Well, to be fair, we weren't there and we don't know how lioness came across or what she said.


----------



## mtn.lioness

I've been "looking back" a lot lately... trying to figure out when everything really changed. 

I can practically pin it to August 30th... a night when he called, drunk, saying that being in the shooting range was triggering his PTSD... I was walking thru an airport, getting back from a business trip, and I was short with him... and pointed out that his program has a 'zero tolerance' for drinking... He was upset and I didn't hear him out. He didn't contact me for 2 weeks after that. When he did it was different, couldn't talk long, was distant... I went back into my journal and looked at it..read through the pages... he told me that the reason they began talking was about his PTSD, he maintains that.

After chewing on this, for like today... I was driving around for work and my mind was away...and I thought, what if this is transference? Rather than dealing with his anxiety and trauma it was easier to mask the feelings with something new, exciting, mysterious and all that. I'm not excusing him. I'm just thinking here. 

That's what I brought to my therapist and she basically said that it could work if he were to get help for his untreated PTSD and lots and lots and lots of trust building. 

Sorry, I was on my phone earlier... 

I did tell her about the texting and the mean, immature behaviors.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Now its coming into the weekend... I'm definitely feeling it more now... Monday can't come soon enough


----------



## Blacksmith01

mtn.lioness said:


> Now its coming into the weekend... I'm definitely feeling it more now... Monday can't come soon enough


'This too shall pass" That simple saying has gotten me through a lot of dark days.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Blacksmith01 said:


> 'This too shall pass" That simple saying has gotten me through a lot of dark days.


Thanks ...

I've been researching PTSD now... the things he's said, like "she listens and understands me" and his obsession with her is nearly echoing some of these articles...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

mtn.lioness said:


> If OW contacts me; I would gladly tell her that. I hope she doesn't contact me any further though
> 
> So.... I went to my first appt with my therapist... She asked me to wait and be open to forgiveness and a second chance if he's willing to work on things.


She did this at your first appointment? WOW, that is terrible. She should be getting to know you and the full situation, not passing judgment on how much history you have with him.

Turnera has it right, that sounds like an agenda. I'd agree with the issue of how you came across, but there are a million ways to say wait better than implying that you should see what he decides to do. It's strange that a first time visit to a therapist, no matter your emotional state, is already at the be open to forgiveness stage.

That's just strange to me.


----------



## mtn.lioness

phillybeffandswiss said:


> She did this at your first appointment? WOW, that is terrible. She should be getting to know you and the full situation, not passing judgment on how much history you have with him.
> 
> Turnera has it right, that sounds like an agenda. I'd agree with the issue of how you came across, but there are a million ways to say wait better than implying that you should see what he decides to do. It's strange that a first time visit to a therapist, no matter your emotional state, is already at the be open to forgiveness stage.
> 
> That's just strange to me.


I was really thrown when she said it... 

IDK maybe I'll see someone else, I can look into on Monday...


----------



## turnera

I'm very familiar with the counseling world. Trust me when I say they are just people. And that lots of people get into counseling because THEY have problems. So you really do have to kind of comb through them to find the good fit. I recommend searching therapists in your area along with the word "reviews" and read the reviews of others who have visited them. Find one who seems to work the way you think.

Example, my DD23 went to one I found for her for quite a while, growing up. Just a few months ago, we changed insurance so we had to find a new one, and she went to this new one, and she is 100% different from the old one, who just talks and makes suggestions. This one is very active in getting DD23 to change what she's doing. She's thrilled.


----------



## Mavash.

turnera said:


> I'm very familiar with the counseling world. Trust me when I say they are just people.


QFT

I have a family member who is a psychiatrist.

Trust me when I say this person's life is a mess. 

I cringe thinking of them giving advice to others.

Did I mention this person is a serial cheater?

Things that make you go hmmmmm....


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> I'm very familiar with the counseling world. Trust me when I say they are just people. And that lots of people get into counseling because THEY have problems. So you really do have to kind of comb through them to find the good fit. I recommend searching therapists in your area along with the word "reviews" and read the reviews of others who have visited them. Find one who seems to work the way you think.
> 
> Example, my DD23 went to one I found for her for quite a while, growing up. Just a few months ago, we changed insurance so we had to find a new one, and she went to this new one, and she is 100% different from the old one, who just talks and makes suggestions. This one is very active in getting DD23 to change what she's doing. She's thrilled.



I made a lot of progress while in a therapeutic relationship about 5 years go. I'm still using the techniques that I learned for change. I am not passive, I now take things head on and I let my loved ones know when I'm hurt... which this time around has provided me support and people to go to for help... I used to put issues "on the back burner" and never really dealt with them until I couldn't handle them any longer. 

I plan to shop around a bit and ask for recommendations.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yes, they all are not bad, but I had a therapist friend tell me that it's ironic that they can help people and their lives are a mess. She was loyal to a guy for 10 years, cheated 7 months after the marriage and was divorced.


----------



## mtn.lioness

I haven't ever cheated... but I've been cheated on in every relationship. I'm to the point where I cannot trust my decisions in partners. When I left my ex 8 years ago, I felt in a panic thinking of my future without someone to share it with. I'm no longer thinking that way. I'm at peace looking forward thinking I will share it with just my kids. I'm okay with that. 

I have the divorce paperwork filled out already and ready for signature. This has freaked out my family, they don't want me to act so quickly, but what will change? Nothing. This has happened and there's not a whole that *I* can do. He runs from his problems into a new one, I've concluded after looking at his choices... Am I really supposed to give him time to emotionally adjust to the idea of a divorce? Really? How about allowing me to emotionally adjust to the idea of him having an affair, no that got thrown at me all at once. Am I upset? Yes. Am I emotionally wrecked? Yes, but everyday its less and less. Is this an emotional decision to divorce? Yes and No. No because I cannot logically see me ever trusting him again. Waiting is only prolonging the inevitable.


----------



## turnera

lioness, read the book Getting The Love You Want. It describes why we pick the people we pick and how to stop doing it.


----------



## turnera

Sounds like you've grown up with and surrounded yourself with people who urge you to put YOUR needs and dignity aside, just to have a man around. Not healthy.


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> lioness, read the book Getting The Love You Want. It describes why we pick the people we pick and how to stop doing it.


I'll buy it now, hope its available on kindle



turnera said:


> Sounds like you've grown up with and surrounded yourself with people who urge you to put YOUR needs and dignity aside, just to have a man around. Not healthy.


Its my parents... They're a big support for me, they just don't want me to make an emotional decision. I think if I give it 6 months then file it'll be more thought through??


----------



## turnera

Why not? You're in no rush. But I hope you don't do it while continuing to meet his needs.


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> Why not? You're in no rush. But I hope you don't do it while continuing to meet his needs.


Good point. I hope not, too.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

turnera said:


> lioness, read the book Getting The Love You Want. It describes why we pick the people we pick and how to stop doing it.


Just recently I spoke with two women in problems with their current relationship.

BOTH had their third partner, with EXACTLY the same characteristics as the first two men.

One chooses PTSS veterans, one alcoholics.

They did not mention that specifically, and I only became aware of this later. 

Their frame of reference, their security area, must be setup for meeting and engaging with that kind of men, to endup in misery. 

I guess they don't know they are, or they think low of other kind of men?


----------



## hopefulgirl

mtn.lioness said:


> If OW contacts me; I would gladly tell her that. I hope she doesn't contact me any further though
> 
> So.... I went to my first appt with my therapist... She asked me to wait and be open to forgiveness and a second chance if he's willing to work on things. I stressed we've only been married for 8 months! And she said that our history didn't begin 8 months ago. Ughhhhhhh now I'm all confused!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think any of this suggests this is a "bad" counselor - it sounds like you've been having some conflicting feelings, which you no doubt expressed in the therapy session. It's true that your kids have an attachment to him, that he's been in their lives for several years, and that you've had trouble not answering his calls. If any of this was communicated to the therapist, I think she was only presenting an objective opinion that perhaps a "cooling off" period before deciding might be an option. 

In the early days post D-Day, some people have so much anger that such an option often gets passed over - go directly to divorce, don't consider reconciliation. Since in her practice she may have seen severely distressed couples who DID reconcile despite affairs, she may have felt an obligation to let you know that it's possible.

But in your case, BOTH you and your husband have been talking about wanting a divorce, so it doesn't sound like there's as much need for a cooling off/waiting period for you. And as has been pointed out, reconciliation requires remorse on his part, and it would involve a lot of work for both of you, and a lot of pain - mostly on your part. He is a really broken man, and whatever his redeeming qualities are, from what you've said they don't seem to outweigh what he's done to you. I think you can let the therapist know you thought about it, your family wants you to wait too, but you want this divorce so that's your plan, and you would like the therapy to proceed with this plan in mind.


----------



## mtn.lioness

My youngest is now refusing to wear her glasses, says that her heart is too broken... I held her and reassured her that I love her and that he loves her. 

The kids want to play with their 'cousins' they're his side of the family as we know no one else here... this is so difficult


----------



## mtn.lioness

I'm trying really hard, today has proven to be a rough day for me... 

I can't wait for work to start tomorrow!


----------



## Syco

Wish you well


----------



## Chaparral

The reason he now sounds reluctant to sign the divorce papers is that he was bluffing. Now he knows you can let go. He was using the fact of divorce to manipulate you and when you asked him to sign the papers, he realized the bluff failed.

Be prepared for his next tactic to put you back into your place.

What he did was not an accident, it was a coldly calculated choice. Can you expect him to change his spots?


----------



## Chaparral

The reason he now sounds reluctant to sign the divorce papers is that he was bluffing. Now he knows you can let go. He was using the fact of divorce to manipulate you and when you asked him to sign the papers, he realized the bluff failed.

Be prepared for his next tactic to put you back into your place.

What he did was not an accident, it was a coldly calculated choice. Can you expect him to change his spots?


----------



## ThePheonix

mtn.lioness said:


> I just got a notification from her husband that if I contact him again he's pressing harassment charges. Wow. Seriously. Wow.


Perhaps her husband is looking at this as an opportunity to unload her. Hey, it happens.


----------



## hopefulgirl

Sorry you're having a rough day. We all go through those. 

Hope tomorrow is better. Hang in there. We're pulling for you.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Chaparral said:


> The reason he now sounds reluctant to sign the divorce papers is that he was bluffing. Now he knows you can let go. He was using the fact of divorce to manipulate you and when you asked him to sign the papers, he realized the bluff failed.
> 
> Be prepared for his next tactic to put you back into your place.
> 
> What he did was not an accident, it was a coldly calculated choice. Can you expect him to change his spots?


Do you have an idea of what that tactic might be? So I can prepare myself... his choice was very cold and calculated. He was planning on using me until she was ready to leave her husband. 



ThePheonix said:


> Perhaps her husband is looking at this as an opportunity to unload her. Hey, it happens.


Can i ask, what do you mean by "opportunity to unload her" I haven't heard that expression before



hopefulgirl said:


> Sorry you're having a rough day. We all go through those.
> 
> Hope tomorrow is better. Hang in there. We're pulling for you.


Thanks...I'm looking forward to tomorrow. I get to go back to work and start my week over. I'm much better when I'm busy.


----------



## Headspin

Sometimes there are realizations about things that bring clear perspective in infidelity

One of them is this fundamental realization

*The man you have given your heart to is not the man you thought he was - ever.*

This is what 'love' does - it pushes down the negatives of a partner and boosts the positives (as if bizarrely you were in the middle of an affair !!) That's how to a smaller degree affair partners see it. 

That's how 'in love' couples see it too.

This is how love works inside of you in how you perceive your 'love partner'

As 'love' fades/evolves or 'reality' sets in you start to see more and more of the negative sides about somebody but you love them more, in a different way, that accepts those things, those faults. 

Even whilst somebody is sh!itting all over you in committing adultery you will still hang on to their good sides still not want to believe the growing realization that they have a bad side and its one hell of a bad side too, that they could contemplate choosing to hand out so much pain to somebody /people THEY supposedly love.

It takes time but you are seeing they are not who you thought they are.

When you actually accept this person is not that, then you will survive this, then you will deal with them s their behavior demands 

Until then it's really a process of denial.

When this bit this crucial bit kicks into you you will be very clear how you deal with all of this


----------



## mtn.lioness

Headspin said:


> Sometimes there are realizations about things that bring clear perspective in infidelity
> 
> One of them is this fundamental realization
> 
> *The man you have given your heart to is not the man you thought he was - ever.*
> 
> This is what 'love' does - it pushes down the negatives of a partner and boosts the positives (as if bizarrely you were in the middle of an affair !!) That's how to a smaller degree affair partners see it.
> 
> That's how 'in love' couples see it too.
> 
> This is how love works inside of you in how you perceive your 'love partner'
> 
> As 'love' fades/evolves or 'reality' sets in you start to see more and more of the negative sides about somebody but you love them more, in a different way, that accepts those things, those faults.
> 
> Even whilst somebody is sh!itting all over you in committing adultery you will still hang on to their good sides still not want to believe the growing realization that they have a bad side and its one hell of a bad side too, that they could contemplate choosing to hand out so much pain to somebody /people THEY supposedly love.
> 
> It takes time but you are seeing they are not who you thought they are.
> 
> When you actually accept this person is not that, then you will survive this, then you will deal with them s their behavior demands
> 
> Until then it's really a process of denial.
> 
> When this bit this crucial bit kicks into you you will be very clear how you deal with all of this


Thank you for this... It's getting more and more evident what I need to do. The worst is just trying to do all of this while away from my loved ones. 
For some reason I got a message from his mistress, she messages me "we are growing apart" and it was to our family email. It was on purpose. I know she knows I can see it. He told her to not use it. Like this whole weekend has been hell for me and now I see this. I have to stop using this email account.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dontbeused

mtn.lioness said:


> Thank you for this... It's getting more and more evident what I need to do. The worst is just trying to do all of this while away from my loved ones.
> For some reason I got a message from his mistress, she messages me "we are growing apart" and it was to our family email. It was on purpose. I know she knows I can see it. He told her to not use it. Like this whole weekend has been hell for me and now I see this. I have to stop using this email account.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


congratulations on your handling of this. Do not engage with her at all. Nothing good can come from doing that, and she wants to bring you to her level. Not to mention it would show your H, that he matters to you and there is no need for that. Get his signature and move on. You will be more than okay in the long run.


----------



## mtn.lioness

She is still messaging my family account. I want to just delete the account. I have my masters program connected to it and other important things... bills, and all that.. Its so frustrating!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

mtn.lioness said:


> She is still messaging my family account. I want to just delete the account. I have my masters program connected to it and other important things... bills, and all that.. Its so frustrating!


What email service? There are ways, I've used them, to filter out certain addresses. Some still have a blocking system.


----------



## mtn.lioness

phillybeffandswiss said:


> What email service? There are ways, I've used them, to filter out certain addresses. Some still have a blocking system.


google

I have my bills, my masters program contacts, and other "family official" stuff

I'm going to look around to see how I can block her email address.


*** I just logged back in and theres more messages. So annoying. It feels fake to me, but she's messaging asking why he's not responding to her via text, fb, or anything. (insert eye roll)***

Yes, I am looking into blocking. I've had enough of this crap.


----------



## mtn.lioness

My youngest is sick and she was crying, wanting to talk to him, I tried just tending to her needs, then she grabbed my hand and said she she'd feel better if she could talk to him. I called. He answered. We haven't really talked in awhile. Since last week. They talked briefly then I asked if he was taking off for work tomorrow and he said, "no, did you need help?" and I said, "actually that'd be a big help" and so now I'm going to drop her off with him tomorrow. Not sure how this is going to play out. My plan is to stick to my daughter's concerns and drop her off, then when I pick up, get an update on how she was and be polite then get out of there.


----------



## hopefulgirl

Keep her best interests at heart, while sticking to your plan. This is a tough time, and a sick child adds to your stress. Hope she's feeling better today.

Take care.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Well, I went over there. He said he wasn't sure if he could take her. He was waiting on a call and I had to do participate in a conference call at work. So I was in the other room for awhile. He got the call he is taking off for his job in the morning and had to run errands. Overall the time I was there was about 90 minutes. He smoked a cigarette with me outside when I first got there and said that I looked good. I thanked him. He then said, "you were right, she picked her family, its over, we're done now" and I was quiet. After the silence I said, "my brother is coming up to stay with me." and he said that'd be good. Then while waiting for our calls to see how we were going to proceed with whether or not he could watch her. He said, "Catching Fire comes out tomorrow." I said, "Oh i thought it was Friday" and he then asked me to go with him. I didn't respond. He looked up times and kept talking about it. I didn't really respond. I got my phone call and spent the next 45 minutes in the next room. He also took a call. 

He's still wearing the bracelet she made him. Then he asked, "are you talking to Nichole still?" and I said, "No, I haven't contacted her." and he said, "She's flipping out now" and I just was indifferent. I asked if he was going to need the afternoon to get last minute things for his job and he said yes he would.

So I suited up my daughter and we left. No real goodbye, I just said, thanks and that's pretty much it. He put my daughter in her carseat and said he loves her and that he'll be back in 2 weeks and he'll call to talk to her when he can. 

Now we're home and she's feeling better.


----------



## ScubaSteve61

I know he's saying its over with the OW, but is he showing any REAL remorse, or is he just trying to say "Oh well, she dumped me, guess I'll go back to you..."

That's the impression I'm getting.


----------



## mtn.lioness

He just called and we talked for like 2 hours. 

He was sad and apologized. He was hesitant to answer any tough questions, but provided some info on more lighter questions that I had. 

I'm not hearing any REAL remorse at this point. He's saying he messed up and can't see how I'd forgive him. 

IDK what to think. I'm still so so hurt. He had plans with her, they made plans together, when I asked him what they were he said he didn't want to talk about it. He said he's afraid of hurting me more with the details. He also said he had plans, but he didn't think the OW was ever going to really follow through with them. 

IDK what to think now. I'm just overwhelmed with this information. He said so much, but didn't say a whole lot... he kept going back to that he hurt me so badly and that I'm such an amazing person, but is worried that he'd hurt me again. He said he's a horrible person...I don't like when people talk about themselves like that, I said to him that he is not a horrible person, but that he has behaved horribly. 

He admitted to having a PA and apologized for hurting me by lying and denying my suspicions. 

I'm moving forward with my life and continuing to pick myself up, go to work and take care of my kids. IDK what comes next. IDK how I should proceed with caution. IDK. IDK. IDK.


----------



## turnera

You should proceed with divorcing him.

IF he is ever truly remorseful, he will answer EVERY question you have, stop protecting himself, and do anything you want him to. He won't reach that point if you just accept his apology. Apologies are easy.


----------



## ScubaSteve61

mtn.lioness said:


> He just called and we talked for like 2 hours.
> 
> He was sad and apologized. He was hesitant to answer any tough questions, but provided some info on more lighter questions that I had.
> 
> I'm not hearing any REAL remorse at this point. He's saying he messed up and can't see how I'd forgive him.
> 
> IDK what to think. I'm still so so hurt. He had plans with her, they made plans together, when I asked him what they were he said he didn't want to talk about it. He said he's afraid of hurting me more with the details. He also said he had plans, but he didn't think the OW was ever going to really follow through with them.
> 
> IDK what to think now. I'm just overwhelmed with this information. He said so much, but didn't say a whole lot... he kept going back to that he hurt me so badly and that I'm such an amazing person, but is worried that he'd hurt me again. He said he's a horrible person...I don't like when people talk about themselves like that, I said to him that he is not a horrible person, but that he has behaved horribly.
> 
> He admitted to having a PA and apologized for hurting me by lying and denying my suspicions.
> 
> I'm moving forward with my life and continuing to pick myself up, go to work and take care of my kids. IDK what comes next. IDK how I should proceed with caution. IDK. IDK. IDK.


One thing I learned when I went through it was the full depth of how much I didn't know. 

You'll get through it. Its rough, but really remove emotions from it and look at it logically. Give yourself the advice that you would give to a stranger.


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> You should proceed with divorcing him.
> 
> IF he is ever truly remorseful, he will answer EVERY question you have, stop protecting himself, and do anything you want him to. He won't reach that point if you just accept his apology. Apologies are easy.


I don't think he has an understanding of a healthy relationship. His parents weren't faithful towards one another. His mother is still living with a boyfriend, but yet they are married and his dad maintains he'll take her back when she's ready. 

I do not want that for my life. 

Is it appropriate to give him more time to 1) get over the affair and their break-up and 2) be ready to be remorseful and do the work it might take to try... IDK

In the end I may most likely continue towards divorce anyway... IDK


----------



## alte Dame

I think what he is saying when he says that he is a horrible person and he is afraid that he will hurt you again is really a 'coward's code' for 'I don't think we are going to work out. I don't really want to try again.'

I would keep moving with the D. You are his plan B & even that isn't certain, it seems to me.


----------



## hopefulgirl

If he's "worried that he'd hurt" you again, perhaps you should pay attention to that. He may be telling you an important truth about himself. He may be warning you that if you take him back he is likely to do this again, EVEN if he feels bad about hurting you and "promises" you that he won't do it again.

I'm all for reconciliation, but cheating on you in the first year of marriage is a VERY bad sign. In the absence of giving you all the answers you want and showing obvious remorse, proceeding with D makes the most sense. As has been pointed out, R is always possible, even after D. 

If you decide you don't want to go through with it, you can always stop divorce proceedings. 

But here's something important to consider. 

In addition to the STD he gave you that you know about, did you get a pap with an HPV test? Only women can be tested for HPV. Untreated, some kinds of HPV can lead to cervical cancer. You don't want to pay that price for his affair.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Today is a bad day. I'm so depressed. I'm beginning to feel more than just angry. 

I continue to think that divorce is the best option.

I'm just so hurt.


----------



## hopefulgirl

Betrayal hurts more than anyone who hasn't been there can imagine. The anger can sometimes be helpful (when it's not up to the level of rage) because it energizes you and distracts you some from the hurt, which can immobilize you when the pain is really bad.

So sorry you've joined this club. I hate for anyone to ever have to become a member. But you're going to be OK. You'll get through this. Stay focused. Like a mountain lioness.


----------



## mtn.lioness

I have bought an audiobook and I'm listening to it. Its about moving on. Its been helping.

So far I'm implementing NC. It hasn't been challenged...yet... but I haven't checked his FB page... I've also implemented the snapping an elastic band on my wrist when I start thinking about him; instead I take the letters of his name and with each letter I think of motivational type words that correspond; i.e. M = mindful; A = admirable. That has been more helpful than I thought it would be. 

Next will be journaling... I had a blog once, I might do it that way since I can type faster than write things out. But I do need to make a list of affirmations. 

One thing that makes me happy is to cook. I went to the grocery store and picked up the ingredients to some of our family favorites... since its such a cold day... I decided to make homemade chili. It smells so good and my girls are chopping at the bits to have some. It makes me happy to please their appetites. 

I'm doing it. I'm moving on. Today I woke up more energized and ready to deal with this with a better train of thought. I want to become healthier; heart, mind, body and spirit. 

I'm going to look into joining a church around here and get back into my faith. Its been awhile. 

When I start getting more money to move around; I'd iike to color my hair...and cover up the white hairs that have really shown up lately. 

Tonight my kids are watching something on Hulu and I'm going to set up a blog to be able to start documenting my progress.


----------



## MattMatt




----------



## mtn.lioness

MattMatt said:


>


yep


----------



## tom67

MattMatt said:


>


:smthumbup::smthumbup:

Good one.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Just checking in....

I've continued to keep up with the NC. My thoughts continue to circle around this mess, but I'm allowing myself to feel what emotion comes up with the thoughts. I've begun a Relationship Inventory. I just started it, so I'm doing the "positives" and it can be tough, but I've gotten through the first of it okay.

We have been invited to a co-workers house for Thanksgiving. We know no one beyond my work colleagues and his family... I think it's best to go with my co-worker and her family. I had originally planned to stay home... make the turkey myself. Maybe I might go back to that. IDK. The holidays are hard to be alone and it might give my girls something to look forward to... Another co-worker and her daughter are going; we're all transplants and don't have any 'family' in the area... 

I've maintained working out and that's really helped me start my day... I feel better from the endorphins and I also just feel better by getting more sleep at night - working out always helps get me into a nice pattern that puts me asleep at a decent hour; instead of being a zombie at work.

My family has offered to pay for our airfare to fly home for Christmas; and amazingly I'm the only person to have requested the week of Christmas off in my unit; so it was approved. It will be nice to see my parents and siblings; I have a niece that was born in July that I have yet to meet; my girls will also enjoy spending time with their new little cousin. I plan on borrowing my parents vehicle and driving up to my old stomping grounds, where the women I call friends are; they are who I turn to during these hard times... I need an evening with them, in person. I feel it will be healing. 

He has a rotational schedule, so its likely that this time would be healing for me, he's not around to come by, call or go see. He hasn't called from where he works and I have no idea if he has access to a phone. It helps to tell myself that he does and that we're both moving on without any real 'drama' but then a part of me is worried that he'll get back from his rotational schedule in a week and then i'll be back on a roller coaster. Today I feel stable in my decision and I'm working towards a healthy recovery. I want to move on. I want to grieve this relationship and my past and let go. I'm writing this now so that if things do get unsteady, I can look back and see these thoughts...

Thanks for listening


----------



## manticore

mtn.lioness said:


> She is still messaging my family account. I want to just delete the account. I have my masters program connected to it and other important things... bills, and all that.. Its so frustrating!


Fw the emails to her husband and replaying her (copying her husband) to stop harrasing you or you will be the one taking legal actions against her


----------



## turnera

I'm excited for you to be going to your coworker's tomorrow. I think it's an excellent idea. And WILL be great for your girls.

And going home for Christmas...I can't imagine a better plan.

Good going, you!


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> I'm excited for you to be going to your coworker's tomorrow. I think it's an excellent idea. And WILL be great for your girls.
> 
> And going home for Christmas...I can't imagine a better plan.
> 
> Good going, you!


Change of plans... my youngest is sick, I just took her into the Dr's today and she now has a double ear infection; poor thing. We'll be doing Thanksgiving on our own. I'm kinda bummed, lol, her husband was going to prepare the turkey I bought... now I've got all this on my own...

On a positive note, I rented out my extra bedroom, so that's extra income coming in... we have different schedules so we might not cross paths too often. Our roommate might move in tomorrow... I guess, so maybe he'll join us for the holiday. He's not from here either and doesn't have his family here. Its temporary for 6 months.. I can't wait to move from this house. 

Now if I could transfer offices to a closer location than we'd be set. 

One goal at a time


----------



## Nujabes

So far from what I've read, 6 pages in, I think you're dealing with psycho path swingers....


----------



## Psych

Happy Thanksgiving. 

Holidays are stressful. Remember this, sometimes when a door slams closed in your life, another one often opens. Be open to new possibilities. Stay positive. Focus on the good things in your life. This unhappiness is temporary. Something better is waiting for you in the future. Believe it. Have faith. Here's a poem about adversity. Hope you enjoy it. (Not mine, one I read)

*RECOVERING*

It has been a month or so
Still thinking what it could have been
If you did not yield to leaving
And forgetting everything
A smile can still be painted 
And my spirit is still filled.

Fate is not in our ways
Yet our hearts remain beating
Our souls searching
Reality knocks on our door
No sense in holding to something fading
Help me get over then. 

Hope is in the horizon
Tomorrow brings a different story
A sea of new faces may surround us
The perfect love may be found
A love that overcomes any adversity
And does not surrender easily.

I pray for a desire
To teach my heart to forget you
To free my soul from blue
That I may breathe the wild breeze of tomorrow
And witness the buds blossoming
With the right man holding thy hand.


----------



## FormerSelf

Wow...moving thread.

Its just amazing and confounding when a person who you feel so connected to and esteemed by ...just absolutely loses their marbles over a OM/OW...and basically sells the family cow for some magic beans (but in this fairy tale called reality...the magic beans do nothing). It is apparent that H was caught up in the affair euphoria..lost his rationality...thought there was a bridge to cross over...and lost in the gamble. 

Lousy, lousy situation. You have made some tough choices... Good to see you have drawn a line...that shows a lot of strength. Keep on keepin' on.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Thanks for your support; it really means so much to me...

Today is Thanksgiving. He, stbxh, called just as we were sitting down to eat. I immediately handed the phone over to the kids. After he got done talking to them he asked to talk to me, I was respectful, but didn't engage, he said he had to go, I don't see the point in asking for me; I just said goodbye. I now know his phone number...??? That's odd. He never gave it to me. I won't be calling it. 

Honestly, I thought it was my new roommate's number. He moved in today.

I can't believe I made the entire Thanksgiving meal by myself and then cleaned up...by myself; lol. I am feeling accomplished today! I've never made a turkey before and it was perfect! I cannot wait for leftovers! The best part is cold turkey sandwiches, yum!


----------



## illwill

Yeah. You will be amazed what you can do when you have to. You are re-discovering yourself. I have a feeling you will start 2014 with guns blazing. Best wishes for your child. And i hope your turkey was good.


----------



## turnera

He tried to regain control (when he asked to speak to you and said he had to go). Pretty common - and petty - actually.


----------



## mtn.lioness

He called again. Not from a known number. He said he just walked thru the door from flying in from work and called me. He has apologized. He wants to work things out. He said he didn't realize he lost everything until it was 'too late' and that's just it...its too late.

He's back for 2 weeks... I need the strength not to pick up the phone when he calls. Ughhhh I was just fine.


----------



## illwill

Change your number.


----------



## turnera

Or block him.

Better yet, reply that you now need time to think and you'll talk to him again in January. Until then, he is only to contact the kids. Let him feel the pain and hear you saying no.


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> Or block him.
> 
> Better yet, reply that you now need time to think and you'll talk to him again in January. Until then, he is only to contact the kids. Let him feel the pain and hear you saying no.


I know I want D, not R. But time is on my side... thanks


----------



## ScubaSteve61

TAM is on your side too, lioness.


----------



## sidney2718

mtn.lioness said:


> I know I want D, not R. But time is on my side... thanks


Push the D forward. Remember, you can always stop the proceedings. And even after the D is granted, you can always date him again.

Keep things straight in your head. HE had the affair. HE dumped you for another woman. HE gave you an STD. Saying that he now wants to make it better is pure manipulation. He might even mean it, but he wants it done on his terms.

Just remember that he has NO POWER over you.

If he is really interested in an R, he has to take ownership of the entire mess. He has to atone for it. He has to give you full information on how and when it started and how and when it ended and any other details you may want. Some of this may hurt, but it is like pulling a bandage off, the pain is best taken quickly.

And he has to repair your trust in him by his actions, not by promises.

The worst thing for all of this is that if I remember correctly he will be away on assignment for weeks at a time. He has to somehow find a way for you to _know_ that he is loyal to you and not messing around.

If he can't do these things, complete the D and put him behind you.

Last, know that the sympathies of the entire group are with you. You have friends here.


----------



## mtn.lioness

sidney2718 said:


> Push the D forward. Remember, you can always stop the proceedings. And even after the D is granted, you can always date him again.
> 
> Keep things straight in your head. HE had the affair. HE dumped you for another woman. HE gave you an STD. Saying that he now wants to make it better is pure manipulation. He might even mean it, but he wants it done on his terms.
> 
> Just remember that he has NO POWER over you.
> 
> If he is really interested in an R, he has to take ownership of the entire mess. He has to atone for it. He has to give you full information on how and when it started and how and when it ended and any other details you may want. Some of this may hurt, but it is like pulling a bandage off, the pain is best taken quickly.
> 
> And he has to repair your trust in him by his actions, not by promises.
> 
> The worst thing for all of this is that if I remember correctly he will be away on assignment for weeks at a time. He has to somehow find a way for you to _know_ that he is loyal to you and not messing around.
> 
> If he can't do these things, complete the D and put him behind you.
> 
> Last, know that the sympathies of the entire group are with you. You have friends here.



This is wonderful advice, I keep going back to the fact that I will not trust him ever again. My 1st exH cheated, but I found out after-the-fact... I had my suspicions, but I didn't have the knowledge I have gained over the years that I put to use this last time. It still hurts a teeny tiny bit that he married his affair and they're still together today and I'm on my 3rd serious relationship (2nd marriage). 

I am human and it was nice to hear the things he said, but in the end it only reassured my decision. He couldn't see these "wonderful aspects" about me when they were falling in love. He even said he wouldn't have done anything, but he fell in love and he thought he was in love. That is stupid! Like that is supposed to give me confidence that it won't happen again. 

He called me while I was on my way home from work and asked me to think about it... don't say yes or no yet... I wanted to scream NO and then I was annoyed with myself for answering the phone. Again. Ughhhhhhh


----------



## salina

Mtn.lioness
Don't be so hard on yourself, you may still have strong attachment to exH. I am in a similar situation. My exH spent 2 grands to go see his old flame, met her in a hotel for 3 days and swore that they had no sex, they are just friends !


----------



## mtn.lioness

I feel so sick. We talked. A lot tonight. He answered my questions. He still had that stupid bracelet on and when I pointed it out, he ripped it off. He told me that they started talking the 4th week of the academy and had sex the 5-6 week into the academy. He said they had sex, he felt bad, called me then went over and had sex again. He said he spent the night with her and they slept together nearly every night. She slept in his room, too with his roommate there and they had sex while he was sleeping. He said he loved her and he knew it was wrong. He wasn't thinking beyond what he was feeling right then and there. 

Its closure for me, I guess. He wants to come home, he wants to try to make it work, he wants what we had. 

He said they had a lot of sex, of course. Duh. 

I don't know why I'm allowing myself to talk to him. Its hard to do NC. It just is.


----------



## FormerSelf

Don't get too appalled with yourself when you wind up talking to him...it's natural to be able to have answers for things...especially in terms of trying to obtain some closure. Regardless of your intentions to move on from this...there is still is the grieving process...which means you are going to feel a wide range of stuff about this as you process the death of something that you have invested your life into.

Did he really think he fell in love with the OW? That's silly.


----------



## Headspin

mtn.lioness said:


> I feel so sick. We talked. A lot tonight. He answered my questions. He still had that stupid bracelet on and when I pointed it out, he ripped it off. He told me that they started talking the 4th week of the academy and had sex the 5-6 week into the academy. He said they had sex, he felt bad, called me then went over and had sex again. He said he spent the night with her and they slept together nearly every night. She slept in his room, too with his roommate there and they had sex while he was sleeping. He said he loved her and he knew it was wrong. He wasn't thinking beyond what he was feeling right then and there.
> 
> Its closure for me, I guess. He wants to come home, he wants to try to make it work, he wants what we had.
> 
> He said they had a lot of sex, of course. Duh.
> 
> I don't know why I'm allowing myself to talk to him. Its hard to do NC. It just is.


If only love had a switch ! 

But truth is it doesn't love does not die overnight or over years in fact.

You'll feel better I think when you accept the fact that you still love him - and that will drop and waver and fade but it will take a long time

Expect relapses of 'love' of wanting to ignore all that has happened - we have all been there, are still going there.

Time in this scenario is not a healer in my opinion it is how can I put it a process of clarification!

At these points, where you are now, hearts argue with minds. It takes a bit of time for the mind to really get to grips with the hearts desires and 'sort' that out, to bring it into line with the rest of your mind and life and for you to really know what you want in your life

Time...


----------



## mtn.lioness

FormerSelf said:


> Don't get too appalled with yourself when you wind up talking to him...it's natural to be able to have answers for things...especially in terms of trying to obtain some closure. Regardless of your intentions to move on from this...there is still is the grieving process...which means you are going to feel a wide range of stuff about this as you process the death of something that you have invested your life into.
> 
> Did he really think he fell in love with the OW? That's silly.


He's silly. He's young and I am his first real relationship and I'm kicking myself now for that. He's immature and this whole experience has really made me feel completely foolish for even giving him a chance 4 years ago. I knew better. I knew he needed to live life and he wasn't ready for the commitment of a family.

I cried earlier today... its been awhile since I've done that (in this short life of what I've experienced in the last month)



Headspin said:


> If only love had a switch !
> 
> But truth is it doesn't love does not die overnight or over years in fact.
> 
> You'll feel better I think when you accept the fact that you still love him - and that will drop and waver and fade but it will take a long time
> 
> Expect relapses of 'love' of wanting to ignore all that has happened - we have all been there, are still going there.
> 
> Time in this scenario is not a healer in my opinion it is how can I put it a process of clarification!
> 
> At these points, where you are now, hearts argue with minds. It takes a bit of time for the mind to really get to grips with the hearts desires and 'sort' that out, to bring it into line with the rest of your mind and life and for you to really know what you want in your life
> 
> Time...



You're right. I do still love him and I am trying hard to fight my feelings with sound logic. Its such a struggle for me right now. 

One day at a time....why did I pick last week to quit smoking, ughhhh tonight is killing me!


----------



## turnera

lioness, if that avatar is your picture, you're really beautiful. And you're obviously a nice loving person. You're going to be fine without him and any man will be lucky to have your attention.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Thank you turnera... you have been so kind and have kept up with my thread... tonight was/is a tough night for me... I have yet to fall asleep and I start my day, usually, in an hour. 

It'll be a long day. I can tell.


----------



## mtn.lioness

He's tried to get in contact with me. But I can't right now. Its such a roller coaster... I didn't sleep until 5-6AM and now my schedule is all messed up... but by an act of nature, its a snow day and everything is cancelled/closed; including work. I'm stunned. So we're staying home and trying to just relax... I'm going to bake cookies with my girls today. I wish we had frosting... oh well, we won't be venturing out, we have cookie cutters and that will have to do for today! I did work out after I slept for a few hours. I need to keep that up. I have a long ways to go... I am really trying to focus on me, good health and I want to find joy in being a single...I'm so not there yet and I know that will take time. But its a goal.


----------



## Wazza

What are yours and your STBX's ages? Ok, impertinent question to ask a lady, but you have said a few times how young he is.

One of the things I learned from my wife's affair was, if something sounds odd, or stretches credibility, it is probably a lie. I still see a few odd things in your story. I think your STBX is still playing games.

I reconciled after my wife's affair and I can tell you firstly that it is very hard....some hurts I will carry for the rest of my life. And secondly that it takes two to reconcile. You cannot do it alone. 

I am not seeing the burning need or reason to reconcile and I am not seeing how your husband might become suddenly more committed. Therefore I see your preference for divorce as painful but logical, and if that is your chosen path, I would suggest that you do it quickly. Get it over and done with. Get on with your life.

Don't know how you are going with you blog, but some people use their TAM threads as a journal. It's an option.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Wazza said:


> What are yours and your STBX's ages? Ok, impertinent question to ask a lady, but you have said a few times how young he is.
> 
> One of the things I learned from my wife's affair was, if something sounds odd, or stretches credibility, it is probably a lie. I still see a few odd things in your story. I think your STBX is still playing games.
> 
> I reconciled after my wife's affair and I can tell you firstly that it is very hard....some hurts I will carry for the rest of my life. And secondly that it takes two to reconcile. You cannot do it alone.
> 
> I am not seeing the burning need or reason to reconcile and I am not seeing how your husband might become suddenly more committed. Therefore I see your preference for divorce as painful but logical, and if that is your chosen path, I would suggest that you do it quickly. Get it over and done with. Get on with your life.
> 
> Don't know how you are going with you blog, but some people use their TAM threads as a journal. It's an option.


I am 31 and he is 23. We've been together for 4 years... 

"The Plan" for over a year now has been to go for sole custody of my youngest daughter and its been planned to be filed in January 2014. I'm now nervous that this separation/divorce could look poorly in court... this is so complicated. My family thinks I should hold off on the divorce, do the custody hearings then pursue the divorce. (not his child) her bio-dad has been absent for 4 years, she's 5...


----------



## turnera

You're angsting over a kid? lioness, you can do SO much better.


----------



## Wazza

I would take legal advice on the custody question. 

I think the age difference is significant. I am not saying it is a reason to not have a relationship, but I think it makes it likely you are at different places in life.


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> You're angsting over a kid? lioness, you can do SO much better.


I understand... we had something at one time. I'm not embarrassed. I loved him, I still have love for him. He's an idiot and I went against my gut instinct when we first got involved. But had shown himself to be the kind of person I wanted in my life. My thoughts were of my parents, who have been together for 45 years... and got married at 20. He was responsible, caring, devoted and a provider/protector. I knew we'd have some maturity differences, but really, not many.. now... with his reactions... yes it is noticeable. 



Wazza said:


> I would take legal advice on the custody question.
> 
> I think the age difference is significant. I am not saying it is a reason to not have a relationship, but I think it makes it likely you are at different places in life.


We are definitely in different places now. 

After doing my relationship inventory... its like I wanted a do-over. (being completely, vulnerably honest) I had married at 20 to a man 10 years older and it didn't work, I had a child... next relationship didn't work and I had a child... I lost my high school sweetheart in Iraq in 2003. We graduated in 2001... 9/11 impacted my life so greatly. When I met my stbxh he reminded me, mostly because of the military aspect, of my first love and I think I wanted a do-over. I had 2 bad relationships with very bad people. I've endured more than anyone should ever in any kind of relationship. I came out of that determined to be self-sufficient and am. I was pregnant and alone with my 2nd child at 7 months pregnant when I decided to finished my 4 year degree. She was born on Thursday and on the following Monday she came with me to class. I didn't miss one class that semester. I knew that I was the only person who I could count on. When I met my stbxh he tried relentlessly to win my affection. Eventually I gave in and now we're here. I am a semester away from having my masters and I am in a very good paying job with great benefits and living in a beautiful home in a wonderful neighborhood... so yes... we are in very different places now. My journey now involves a chapter where we moved to Alaska... Now I'm making plans to return home. Its so lonely here without my family. We know no one besides his family. (we just moved here in April)


----------



## doubletrouble

ML, I've just read your thrad today and am impressed with your strength and resolve. This despite your own self-doubt having allowed him to talk to you when you're trying NC. 

You got good advice here, which is typical, and hopefully it's helped you move this along more simply than had you tried to go it alone. It seems from my chair that your next move, to divorce, is a logical move based on what has been going on. Nobody here seems to believe, including you, that your WH is truly ready to commit. 

You're an inspiration.


----------



## Wazza

mtn.lioness said:


> I knew that I was the only person who I could count on.


If you take one sentence away from your last reply this is the one. You must start by fining strength within yourself and build relationships based on that, not look for self worth, validation or strength within relationships.

And the other observation is that love is not enough for a successful relationship. It takes a lot more.


----------



## turnera

I don't think you should be embarrassed. I just think you should understand developmental psychology a bit more. Most people don't stop developing their brains until around age 25. And most boys mature years later than their peer girls. So when a girl is mature enough at 25 to marry, the guy isn't going to really hit it - without roadblocks - much later.

That's my theory, anyway.


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> I don't think you should be embarrassed. I just think you should understand developmental psychology a bit more. Most people don't stop developing their brains until around age 25. And most boys mature years later than their peer girls. So when a girl is mature enough at 25 to marry, the guy isn't going to really hit it - without roadblocks - much later.
> 
> That's my theory, anyway.


Most sadly, I do understand that... in fact, it was a common joke between us, just something we'd tease about...

I really struggled with this and waited...waited...waited... not long enough I see. But I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. Before our move, it was wonderful. 

That said... cheating isn't an age thing. I've had a significant other since I pretty much hit puberty; I have never cheated. Some people never had and never will; others will if the opportunity presents itself...

Its coming onto a month since this all went down... I'm not looking for the next guy to jump into another unhealthy relationship. I'm finally taking my time to grieve this relationship and the loss that goes with it. And I will continue to grieve each relationship I'm still haunted by until I'm in a better place... Then take that time to find hobbies and enjoy life. I am in no rush and the very last thing I want to do is hurt my children again. THIS has been so traumatic on them. That is what I hurt the most over...


----------



## turnera

Therapy?


----------



## mtn.lioness

HTML:







turnera said:


> Therapy?


I'm going to see a counselor, the ones up here for kids have 6 month waiting lists.... But they're on 5 different providers lists; just waiting on a call back.

correction: to be more accurate, I saw the one lady once...I didn't like her very much and I'm looking to get lined up with someone else. I've been doing my grief-work through other resources.


----------



## mtn.lioness

I wasn't anticipating getting upset over his paycheck. It sounds like its about money, but its not. Its about the stability that we've been working towards for years. Seeing it in the account today just really set me off, emotionally... Its the concept of stability, the fact that its not happening and all the hard work towards meeting our goals, NOW that we finally met them...and now I'm back to planning and trying to figure out my life... its not fair.


----------



## Wazza

Life is not fair. But sometimes it is unfair in your favour


----------



## mtn.lioness

Wazza said:


> Life is not fair. But sometimes it is unfair in your favour


I know... I spoke with my dad and he has said for many, many years, "Life's not fair." Which he reminded me again today...

I get it. Its just frustrating, disappointing and it flat out sucks!


----------



## mtn.lioness

I've taken a step towards the right direction today. I've blocked him from various social medias and I've blocked his number... I plan to change my number as well. I have an appointment with an attorney on Thursday.


----------



## Wazza

Good luck. You holding up ok?


----------



## mtn.lioness

Wazza said:


> Good luck. You holding up ok?


I am....I got the best sleep last night in a long time. Just knowing he can't contact me allowed me to really rest. I'm up early and working out again. I feel pretty good today. And I was up earlier and played tooth fairy...


----------



## mtn.lioness

I changed my number today. Its a freeing feeling.


----------



## mtn.lioness

Just saw a status update that the stbxh was tagged in. He spent the last 6 days in Hawaii. So he got his first paycheck and blew it. That's wonderful. I'm sitting here paying OUR bills, bills that are in HIS NAME. But why should he be responsible? I'm upset.


----------



## Wazza

mtn.lioness said:


> Just saw a status update that the stbxh was tagged in. He spent the last 6 days in Hawaii. So he got his first paycheck and blew it. That's wonderful. I'm sitting here paying OUR bills, bills that are in HIS NAME. But why should he be responsible? I'm upset.


In his name.....why pay them?


----------



## turnera

mtn.lioness said:


> Just saw a status update that the stbxh was tagged in. He spent the last 6 days in Hawaii. So he got his first paycheck and blew it. That's wonderful. I'm sitting here paying OUR bills, bills that are in HIS NAME. But why should he be responsible? I'm upset.


A lawyer can handle that for you.


----------



## hopefulgirl

mtn.lioness said:


> Just saw a status update that the stbxh was tagged in. He spent the last 6 days in Hawaii. So he got his first paycheck and blew it. That's wonderful. I'm sitting here paying OUR bills, bills that are in HIS NAME. But why should he be responsible? I'm upset.


Mr. Maturity shows lack of impulse control yet again. Wow. 

But are you really surprised? 

I suppose if there's a silver lining to this, it's that you didn't have children with him so you're not tied to him in THAT way. At least you found out, albeit the HARD way, that he's not marriage material. So sorry you had to find out after you married him. I know it's incredibly painful. Nobody wants to find out AFTER they're married. Some snakes hide it a few years though so I guess there's something to be said for his revealing his true nature before too much time went by.

Hang in there. This isn't easy but you will get through it and you are going to be FINE.


----------



## vi_bride04

Wazza said:


> In his name.....why pay them?


Exactly.

If they are in his name and won't affect your credit, why continue to pay them??


----------



## vi_bride04

ScubaSteve61 said:


> Because paying them is better than not having electricity, water, heat I imagine.


Well those things are a given but can be switched into her name. He will owe any remaining balances left on his account.


----------



## mtn.lioness

All balances are zero right now because I've paid them.

They're in his name because the companies here want me to come in and switch them, to do that I'll need a lease to show he's not here. He's still on the lease. 

They'll add my name to the account. 


I'm okay, I was just venting. I don't have anyone to text or call to vent... 

One phone number I can't change is my work phone. Which he called today asking why I turned off my phone. I can't change my work phone. I have so many clients that have my number memorized. Plus all it takes is an employee directory search and theres my info.

This will all subside soon... one day..


----------



## Wazza

Vent all you like! Cuss, mutter, gripe........we are here to hear it. All part of the service Mam


----------



## mtn.lioness

Wazza said:


> Vent all you like! Cuss, mutter, gripe........we are here to hear it. All part of the service Mam


Thanks! 

Today was better... his dad called me to say he got an odd, hurtful message on FB from my stbxh, his son... saying "This is your fault, she's going to take everything I've got"

I told him I don't know why any of this would be his fault...

My stbxh's sister text me and asked me to lunch. It was good seeing her. We visited, kept it light. It was nice. She also said that if any emergencies (at work) came up, she'd be willing to help watch the girls.


----------



## hopefulgirl

In their fog, blame shifting is typical - usually the betrayed spouse gets the blame for everything, but your H is really spreading the blame around. It's dad's fault? That's a bit of a twist on the cheater's script. What exactly is his father's fault? His cheating? "My father made me do it and now my wife is going to take everything I've got." 

:lol:

Or did you get a shark lawyer referral from his dad?

Anyway. They can get uber defensive and are so self-centered, they go into self-protection mode like a cornered, wounded wild animal and they lose the capacity to think clearly. The stuff that can come out of their mouths as well as the behavior may astound you! Expect the reasoning ability of a five year old. More bizarreness to come. When possible, step back and observe this theater of the absurd and try to see the humor in it - that may help a little. Because some of it, when viewed from a distance, is almost slapstick.

And anyway - "everything I've got?" You've been the breadwinner, right? You paid for his training and he just got an entry level job so I assume he has not much in the way of assets. :scratchhead:


----------



## Clay2013

It is truly amazing the things the cheaters will say. My xW told her family I pushed her to cheat on me. They even called me and trying to convince me it was my fault. I was like I knew your daughter was messed up but clearly you are just as messed up if you really think that way. I think it really was an eye opener for her mom to her. 

My xW still lies to my kids about a lot of things. I just try to avoid any issues. It seems you are on a good path I would just stay the course. 


Do the owners of the place you are staying at have a landlord agreement on the utilities? If they do then you can work with them to just have them take over the utilities and you pay them until you get your name on the lease. 

Clay


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hopefulgirl said:


> That's a bit of a twist on the cheater's script.


Naw, it is the "you are supposed to side with me we are family" blameshift, that pops up, when a parent doesn't support their child's affair.


----------



## hopefulgirl

:lol:

Oh yeah, I forgot about THAT one!!


----------



## mtn.lioness

When he called me at work he asked me what I wanted out of the divorce and I told him my savings that I spent moving us here and help with the rent, your share of the rent that you signed to pay in the form of alimony until I move from here. Basically, its just the amount that he would owe for the lease and the amount of money I paid to move us here would basically move us back. I'm not trying to get "everything he's got." 

I got him into that program, he has said many times he wouldn't have been able to even land the job without my help. I did everything from his resume, the application, the cover letter and I scanned his achievements to make a portfolio to bring to the interview, which he said they were very impressed with. I set him up. Plus did all of the follow-up paperwork for the academy, housing, meal plan, all that goes with it...form after form.. Plus I gave him money to live off of... what a joke!

It is so sad that he's trying to blame his father right now. He has done nothing to deserve that accusation. He is so sad that he would shift the blame on him. He didn't give me any information. He calls me weekly to check-in, tells me that he prays for me and the girls... and that he loves us, and this last call he said he has christmas gifts for the girls and me. He says that even if we decide to divorce he thinks of me as his daughter and will always love us. He said that 20 years could pass and if I called him and needed help or someone to talk to he would be here for me. 

I know that his dad wants us to work things out. But he is also supportive of my decision to say that I cannot work through the affair and lies... 

The landlord/owner isn't very understanding. I've tried getting out of the lease early... changing the lease... No go, she won't change anything. I'm obligated to pay the rent until May 2014... its just another 5 payments. It would be nice if he stepped up and 'helped' like he's been telling everyone that he would.


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## Clay2013

Did you get a contract for the least? Some leases actually have a hardship clause in them. Or you could take another route. Just start complaining about things not working right at the place. Make them send some one out weekly to fix things. They will be happy to let you out of this after a month of this. 

My xW's Dad was very supportive of me to. He was not her biological father but he did raise her. He would not allow the OM in his house for over a year after the divorce.

Clay


----------



## mtn.lioness

Clay2013 said:


> Did you get a contract for the least? Some leases actually have a hardship clause in them. Or you could take another route. Just start complaining about things not working right at the place. Make them send some one out weekly to fix things. They will be happy to let you out of this after a month of this.
> 
> My xW's Dad was very supportive of me to. He was not her biological father but he did raise her. He would not allow the OM in his house for over a year after the divorce.
> 
> Clay


There is not a hardship clause. Its a private home, the owner has a basic lease. I did get a roommate to rent out the 4th bedroom. So that helps, a lot. So glad I did that before the holidays.


----------



## Clay2013

Well at least you have that. I owned my home and my xW signed off completely in the divorce. So I did not have to worry about that plus I was always the breadwinner so money was not the issue for me. What made it difficult for me is she took care of the bills. Or at least I thought she was taking care of them. I found within a week of throwing her out that she failed to pay most of them for a couple months. I think she was buying gifts for her new man with that money. I ended up using the income tax check to catch things up. 

Clay


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## phillybeffandswiss

He's on his way down. If you read the threads, not implying that you haven't, you'll notice some of the Way wards blame everyone including their kid until they hit rock bottom.

Sounds like that is what he is going through. As an old friend used to say "that's what he gets."


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## mtn.lioness

That's horrible. 

I plan on using my tax refund this year to begin saving to move back...Even though I want him to help with that, I know that if I want it to happen, I have to plan for it.


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## Squeakr

Make sure you ducks are in a row so that he doesn't lay claim to some of the tax refund (as he may be entitled to it as well).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mtn.lioness

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He's on his way down. If you read the threads, not implying that you haven't, you'll notice some of the Way wards blame everyone including their kid until they hit rock bottom.
> 
> Sounds like that is what he is going through. As an old friend used to say "that's what he gets."


I have been reading the threads on the site. I am able to see the bigger picture better with other people's stories... Its so different when I'm a part of the story.


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## mtn.lioness

Squeakr said:


> Make sure you ducks are in a row so that he doesn't lay claim to some of the tax refund (as he may be entitled to it as well).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I plan to file married, but separate. The kids are mine. He hasn't made much money this year, just the month of December. 

He doesn't know the first thing about doing his taxes. His dad did them and then I took over.. his dad and I haven't discussed who's doing them this year. I won't be. The stbxh should do his own.


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## Squeakr

Wen if you claim that way, if you are still married this could be considered shared income. I am no lawyer or tax professional so I am not sure if he would still have claim to this (it is a gray area since the income was earned while married and I am not sure what is spelled out in the agreement). I was just throwing it out there so you can prepare in advance to keep it out of his hands.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013

Just talk to your tax consultant. I have a friend that is married and not living with his wife and they filed separately last year. 

It worked out well for both of them. 

Do you have any concern he will file and try to claim your kids?

Clay


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## mtn.lioness

Clay2013 said:


> Just talk to your tax consultant. I have a friend that is married and not living with his wife and they filed separately last year.
> 
> It worked out well for both of them.
> 
> Do you have any concern he will file and try to claim your kids?
> 
> Clay


no, not at all...he doesn't have access to their information to even claim them.


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## Clay2013

That is good that he does not. I have heard of people claiming the kids when they did not even have custody of them. 

Clay


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## Squeakr

Like I said before, I would be afraid he would put in a claim on the refund when it came through so check on if you have the end closed up so he can't touch it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy

Clay2013 said:


> I have heard of people claiming the kids when they did not even have custody of them.


 This is true. As the IRS does not want to get in the middle of such things, unless you want to go to court over this, the first one to file with the children's social security numbers gets the deduction. To be safe, file before your soon to be ex. File early without telling him.


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## mtn.lioness

TRy said:


> This is true. As the IRS does not want to get in the middle of such things, unless you want to go to court over this, the first one to file with the children's social security numbers gets the deduction. To be safe, file before your soon to be ex. File early without telling him.


I will do that. I typically file as soon as I can. He doesn't have a clue about such matters. I already have a court document from my first divorce stating that I will always have the ability to file taxes and claim her. My ex added that in... part of bargaining for joint custody.


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## mtn.lioness

Apparently she found the posting on cheaterville.com and left a comment regarding removing the post or they'll get their lawyers involved.


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## ScubaSteve61

mtn.lioness said:


> Apparently she found the posting on cheaterville.com and left a comment regarding removing the post or they'll get their lawyers involved.


What's the lawyer going to say? "Yeah, we acknowledge that its true, but lioness was a big meanie posting it up!"


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## mtn.lioness

ScubaSteve61 said:


> What's the lawyer going to say? "Yeah, we acknowledge that its true, but lioness was a big meanie posting it up!"


I know, right?! She claims none of its true. (insert eye roll here)

That its an issue I need to work out with my husband and it doesn't involve her. She's believing her own lies.


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## Squeakr

Yep. The truth is the best and only defense in several issues (and unless something false was said, then nothing can be done except live with it vein publicly available, which is what they don't want as A's hate public attention).


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## ScubaSteve61

mtn.lioness said:


> I know, right?! She claims none of its true. (insert eye roll here)
> 
> That its an issue I need to work out with my husband and it doesn't involve her. She's believing her own lies.


Well, yeah... Cause if she doesn't believe them, who will? 

[stolen from someone here]

How do you know when a cheater is lying? When their lips are moving. 

[/stolen from someone here]


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## Clay2013

I think getting a lawyer involved is pointless. The most they will be able to do is get it removed but that does not stop someone else from putting it back up there the next day. 

Cheatersville founder stated in a interview recently that they are not responsible for what third party people put up on there wise. 

With anonymous proxies being able to access all around the word you can change your location every time you put it up and have them going crazy over it. 

Clay


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## Squeakr

Clay2013 said:


> I think getting a lawyer involved is pointless. The most they will be able to do is get it removed but that does not stop someone else from putting it back up there the next day.
> 
> Cheatersville founder stated in a interview recently that they are not responsible for what third party people put up on there wise.
> 
> With anonymous proxies being able to access all around the word you can change your location every time you put it up and have them going crazy over it.
> 
> Clay


This and very few have actually been successful in getting the posts taken down or blocked. I remember one thread on here where the AP was able to get it "temporarily" blocked, but it was only blocked for that countries search engines, so if accessing another countries search engine, it was #1 on the returned list of findings (and this was through Google).


----------



## Clay2013

I am glad to hear that. I really do feel good people should have a place to go to see the status of the person they are talking to. 

Clay


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## Squeakr

Clay2013 said:


> I think getting a lawyer involved is pointless.



I also think this along with swearing that things aren't true and lying to cover it up, but some will go to the ends of the earth proclaiming their innocence, that they know is not present. People think with a little money and bully influence, they can just make the ugly truth go away.


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## mtn.lioness

She can claim its not true all she wants, she left a paper trail... that wasn't smart of her. It would take little effort to prove the affair, besides the recorded conversations of STBXH confessing.


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## Clay2013

Keep all that. Save it. I threw my evidence out after the divorce and I am regretting it now. 

Clay


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## Nucking Futs

mtn.lioness said:


> She can claim its not true all she wants, she left a paper trail... that wasn't smart of her. It would take little effort to prove the affair, besides the recorded conversations of STBXH confessing.


Here's what you send back: "Go ahead and sue me, I've got all the proof I need and I'd love to have an excuse to have it all entered into the public record."


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## hopefulgirl

I think leaving a comment about getting lawyers involved and actually doing it are two different things.

I'd ignore it.

How did she find the post anyway? Does she frequent that website? Or did she google her own name? :scratchhead:


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## mtn.lioness

hopefulgirl said:


> I think leaving a comment about getting lawyers involved and actually doing it are two different things.
> 
> I'd ignore it.
> 
> How did she find the post anyway? Does she frequent that website? Or did she google her own name? :scratchhead:


Good question....no idea...


----------



## mtn.lioness

UPDATE:

Greetings,
Its been a few months... since this time my stbx has tried coming back and I had a hard time at first and let him stay for a few days. He's been sending a portion of his check to my account for about 3-4 checks now. He's been trying, but I have been clear, even when he stayed to help with the kids, that I am not taking him back. I have the paperwork filled out and it has been since 11/14/13. I really want it to be a joint thing. He's been going through some really hard times trying to move on. He goes back and forth between being okay with the separation and wanting to get back together. He's called, sobbing, while drinking, and had to tell me 'everything' so that I can forgive him and try working on us. 

Its been a roller coaster for him. I've been able to hold steady. I've asked him to remain out of the house since he's gotten too emotional when he visits. Its been a few weeks since he came over. He has shown up at my place of work a few times wanting to go to lunch. 

I have to keep in mind that he's young, he is suffering from PTSD and he seems to be really depressed and hitting bottom. I worry about his mental health. I'm encouraging his want to seek counseling. He wants help to get that started. I'm open to helping him with that. 

I have been going on some dates. I've been hanging out with someone and its going well, slow, very slow and well. I'm not interested in rushing into anything, but its nice to get out and enjoy my time and forget about the stress that is my situation. 

I cannot believe that I'm not divorced yet. Honestly, I hope that I can get him on board. I don't think he'll get there so I've reached out to my attorney again. I just really don't want to have to serve him. I do worry about him as a person. I continue to go through the different stages of grief... I was depressed for awhile.. but now I've bounced between anger, bargaining and denial and I'm getting closer to acceptance..I feel like I have one foot in that door. I'm more than okay with my decision to divorce. I have tried to forgive my stbx, I'm not totally there. I'm working on it. When I begin the work on forgiving him I go back to being upset about what was ruined and lost because of his betrayal. 


I live in a huge state, but its like a small town. Its made its way back to me that the OW is having a hard time where she works because her department found out what she was up to. She now has an unfavorable nickname. People in the village she works in also know about what happened. I don't feel bad about it. She made this bed, she can lay in it.


----------



## illwill

Just like your hubby. Dont give him a safe place to land.

And you need to serve him. Get out of limbo. And stop giving him false hope. He will survive.

You need him healthy for the kids, but he is not your problem anymore.


----------



## Headspin

mtn.lioness said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Greetings,
> Its been a few months... since this time my stbx has tried coming back and I had a hard time at first and let him stay for a few days. He's been sending a portion of his check to my account for about 3-4 checks now. He's been trying, but I have been clear, even when he stayed to help with the kids, that I am not taking him back. I have the paperwork filled out and it has been since 11/14/13. I really want it to be a joint thing. He's been going through some really hard times trying to move on. He goes back and forth between being okay with the separation and wanting to get back together. He's called, sobbing, while drinking, and had to tell me 'everything' so that I can forgive him and try working on us.
> 
> Its been a roller coaster for him. I've been able to hold steady. I've asked him to remain out of the house since he's gotten too emotional when he visits. Its been a few weeks since he came over. He has shown up at my place of work a few times wanting to go to lunch.
> 
> I have to keep in mind that he's young, he is suffering from PTSD and he seems to be really depressed and hitting bottom. I worry about his mental health. I'm encouraging his want to seek counseling. He wants help to get that started. I'm open to helping him with that.
> 
> I have been going on some dates. I've been hanging out with someone and its going well, slow, very slow and well. I'm not interested in rushing into anything, but its nice to get out and enjoy my time and forget about the stress that is my situation.
> 
> I cannot believe that I'm not divorced yet. Honestly, I hope that I can get him on board. I don't think he'll get there so I've reached out to my attorney again. I just really don't want to have to serve him. I do worry about him as a person. I continue to go through the different stages of grief... I was depressed for awhile.. but now I've bounced between anger, bargaining and denial and I'm getting closer to acceptance..I feel like I have one foot in that door. I'm more than okay with my decision to divorce. I have tried to forgive my stbx, I'm not totally there. I'm working on it. When I begin the work on forgiving him I go back to being upset about what was ruined and lost because of his betrayal.
> 
> 
> I live in a huge state, but its like a small town. Its made its way back to me that the OW is having a hard time where she works because her department found out what she was up to. She now has an unfavorable nickname. People in the village she works in also know about what happened. I don't feel bad about it. She made this bed, she can lay in it.


Well done 

Its hard but well done

Trouble is you can so easily because of love and past great times just slip back into how you _think it will be again_ 

but it won't - it will never be the same - they've ensured that

I'm in a similar position, she tried to come back recently, lots of 'issues' mentally (BPD) and she keeps finding reasons not to sign of the full and final divorce which has been agreed in principle for 8 months now, she can't let go 

Fking annoying actually because I'm 'gone' 

I don't know about you but the time I've had out nearly two years and her wanting to come back in Dec has given me the ability to actually decide about her with no 'desperation' and no 'need' which my heart always put in the forefront of my decision making.

now that I can think straight, head not heart, my decision was simple - 
have her back = I and my kids get killed - EVERY TIME 

That's hard but it's the truth

You're heart will always be bubbling underneath prodding "go on go on, we can do it, we ca we can"! 
It's programmed to do that with someone you still love BUT this is about 'safety' and security - yours 
so......

All the best with it


----------



## LongWalk

What to they call her? "Faithless Fuzz"?


----------



## mtn.lioness

illwill said:


> Just like your hubby. Dont give him a safe place to land.
> 
> And you need to serve him. Get out of limbo. And stop giving him false hope. He will survive.
> 
> You need him healthy for the kids, but he is not your problem anymore.


He won't have anything to do with the kids when this is all done. They are not his biological children. When he slips into his isolation phases, he doesn't do anything for the kids. He's even gotten calls from the school about my DD being sick. He didn't call me or even text. The school called me, too. But he didn't even let me know they tried calling. It wasn't until the nurse asked if he was an emergency contact anymore because he doesn't seem like he is. That's telling. But like I said, he goes through these phases. He'll be productive, helpful and mindful then he'll jump on a plane to Hawaii and spend 5 days there and not thinking about the rent and bills he owes towards. 



Headspin said:


> Well done
> 
> Its hard but well done
> 
> Trouble is you can so easily because of love and past great times just slip back into how you _think it will be again_
> 
> but it won't - it will never be the same - they've ensured that
> 
> I'm in a similar position, she tried to come back recently, lots of 'issues' mentally (BPD) and she keeps finding reasons not to sign of the full and final divorce which has been agreed in principle for 8 months now, she can't let go
> 
> Fking annoying actually because I'm 'gone'
> 
> I don't know about you but the time I've had out nearly two years and her wanting to come back in Dec has given me the ability to actually decide about her with no 'desperation' and no 'need' which my heart always put in the forefront of my decision making.
> 
> now that I can think straight, head not heart, my decision was simple -
> have her back = I and my kids get killed - EVERY TIME
> 
> That's hard but it's the truth
> 
> You're heart will always be bubbling underneath prodding "go on go on, we can do it, we ca we can"!
> It's programmed to do that with someone you still love BUT this is about 'safety' and security - yours
> so......
> 
> All the best with it


Thank you... I can connect with what you're saying. I do still care, he's been a part of my life and a very large part of it for awhile and letting that part go has been difficult AFTER he resurfaced. He had been MIA for a month or so... He resurfaced right before New Years Eve. Quite unexpectedly. Now its been just about 6-7 weeks and I'm exhausted with his mood swings. I am done and ready to file. He just called tonight and swore he'd sign as soon as he gets back from working 2 weeks. He works in a remote location then has 2 weeks back in the area. He's said this many times and each time the day comes when he promises to sign he backs out, turns off his phone or doesn't show up where we agreed to meet.



LongWalk said:


> What to they call her? "Faithless Fuzz"?


They call her "B*tch Face" IDK what thats about. But apparently she's responded to a call (she's a cop) and they called dispatch back and said, "I don't want to deal with B*tch Face." Apparently an elder threw a bottle at her while in uniform and since its different in villages, she wasn't allowed to do anything about it; trying to keep the peace. Apparently, this is how the villagers 'run them out' because they know what they can and cannot do and get away with. The married men at the department went to the chief of police, the OW's father, and refuse to be partnered with her because their wives know what she did and one wife is threatening to move if he gets partnered on anything with her. After the call back to dispatch, she was put in the office and can't patrol, which is what she was hired to do. So her 'good time' at the academy is having its ripple effects. 

She was sleeping with 4 other guys, plus her husband when he'd visit. She is 28, 5 kids, 5 different dads; two of them are cousins and siblings... she was married, had a baby, then had her brother-in-laws baby. Like really. REALLY? This is the woman my stbx thought was wise decision. No, he wasn't thinking. He was horny. He wanted to know what fake breasts were like; I guess. I'm upset now. Ughhh but its good. Its good I get upset. I need to remind myself what he chose over me, our marriage and the family we have.


----------



## hopefulgirl

Well, she's a piece of work, isn't she? Kind of reinforces just how much your stbx needs to grow up. 

Sounds like you're experiencing some normal feelings of concern for his well-being. Detaching is sometimes hard, even after someone has treated you so badly - to see them spiraling downward is difficult to watch. He messed up big time, and probably does need counseling because I bet he hasn't spent much time examining his character flaws and areas where he needs to work on himself. A simple "boy, I'd never do something that stupid again" doesn't begin to scratch the surface. I'm sure he had lots of areas of vulnerability to an affair that he needs to identify and get to work on, but that's all on HIM now. Other than helping him to find a counselor, I hope you won't be tempted to try to help him with the work he has to do on his own issues now that you're moving on.

Best of luck - be good to you, and take good care of yourself!


----------



## alte Dame

mtn.lioness said:


> She was sleeping with 4 other guys, plus her husband when he'd visit. She is 28, 5 kids, 5 different dads; two of them are cousins and siblings... she was married, had a baby, then had her brother-in-laws baby.


And she gets on her high horse about being on cheaterville? LOL. She was probably the original inspiration for the place.


----------



## mtn.lioness

hopefulgirl said:


> Well, she's a piece of work, isn't she? Kind of reinforces just how much your stbx needs to grow up.
> 
> Sounds like you're experiencing some normal feelings of concern for his well-being. Detaching is sometimes hard, even after someone has treated you so badly - to see them spiraling downward is difficult to watch. He messed up big time, and probably does need counseling because I bet he hasn't spent much time examining his character flaws and areas where he needs to work on himself. A simple "boy, I'd never do something that stupid again" doesn't begin to scratch the surface. I'm sure he had lots of areas of vulnerability to an affair that he needs to identify and get to work on, but that's all on HIM now. Other than helping him to find a counselor, I hope you won't be tempted to try to help him with the work he has to do on his own issues now that you're moving on.
> 
> Best of luck - be good to you, and take good care of yourself!


Thanks, I am trying to help him get set up in counseling, but I am backing away and have maintain my distance. He calls and I don't answer them all. I was more worried when he'd drink whiskey every night for awhile. But now that he's stopped that I'm better. I'm worried he'll commit suicide. Its so common where we're from. Its so sad... and while he was drinking it was a serious concern. But he seems better *this week* 



alte Dame said:


> And she gets on her high horse about being on cheaterville? LOL. She was probably the original inspiration for the place.


She sent a second message about the cheaterville thing, because i did take down the one, only to realize there is no reposting it. So I posted a second one. She sent me a message on FB.

Here's what she sent:

Mrs. *****,
As this is the second time you've posted slanderous material about me on the internet I will keep this brief. 
I have already explained to you the lengths I am willing to go to have these things removed. I understand from the website that it can take up to 48 hours to remove a post and I am prepared to give you that amount of time. If you decide to leave the information as it is my first step will be contacting your employer and my attorney. 
I truly thought that the last time we dealt with this would in fact be the last. This entire thing is childish. 
Thank you for you time.

My response:

Nichole, I haven't spoken to you since November 11th. We haven't dealt with 'anything.' You completely lied and got caught. You might want to look up the correct definition of slander, lol. I would love the opportunity to bring this information, including witness testimony, into public record. Do what you need to, I'm not quite sure how my employer is involved in your mess of a life, but if you want to get employers..city councils.. involved...thats a road I haven't ventured down, but the ball is in your court. I've done nothing illegal. You might want to study the Alaska State Statutes before involving legal parties... given your behaviors, I have more rights than you do. We are living in a Red State. You do know what that means, right? Good luck. 
-Annie

She is such a trip...calling me Mrs. ***** (I just put the stars in place of my last name, no swear words!)
The post on Cheaterville is still up and active. Over 20,000 views.


That message was sent well over a month ago. It also made its way back to me...somehow, we live in different regions of the state, but there aren't a lot of people here... that she sought legal advice and was basically laughed at. She has nothing to go off of. Everything I posted on Cheaterville.com was true. And since then... I've met one of their classmates... her roommate from the academy, she said she'd love to provide a statement of affidavit if requested. She said she knows a few others from the academy who were disgusted by both of them and would be happy to supply their own statements. I believe adultery or something along those lines is illegal, a misdemeanor. If its not now, it was..so many people have said, "press charges on them." I'm not interested in that anyway.


----------



## hopefulgirl

I still wonder, how would she know her info is there?

That question still intrigues me!! Did she find it or did someone else, and if someone else, who did her the "favor" of checking that website and finding her on it? 

If she found it herself, then she knew to look for herself there! So how could that be slander?

Yes, she is a trip! 

Well, it sounds like you've handled this beautifully. And at least you even have a bit of a sense of humor about her lack of brain power.

Hope you continue to take care of yourself and heal from this ordeal.


----------



## mtn.lioness

hopefulgirl said:


> I still wonder, how would she know her info is there?
> 
> That question still intrigues me!! Did she find it or did someone else, and if someone else, who did her the "favor" of checking that website and finding her on it?
> 
> If she found it herself, then she knew to look for herself there! So how could that be slander?
> 
> Yes, she is a trip!
> 
> Well, it sounds like you've handled this beautifully. And at least you even have a bit of a sense of humor about her lack of brain power.
> 
> Hope you continue to take care of yourself and heal from this ordeal.


If you google her name its the very first hit that pops up. She was mentioned in an article about her position with the police department. I wonder if she was googling that or something and she saw it... IDK..


----------



## Nucking Futs

mtn.lioness said:


> If you google her name its the very first hit that pops up. She was mentioned in an article about her position with the police department. I wonder if she was googling that or something and she saw it... IDK..


So how do you keep from grinning when you think about that? Or do you? I wouldn't. :smthumbup:


----------



## mtn.lioness

Nucking Futs said:


> So how do you keep from grinning when you think about that? Or do you? I wouldn't. :smthumbup:


She put herself on that site. She decided her behavior. 

It wasn't the site that got back to the department. Wives talk and it made its way to warn the other wives of her department. 

She's not from here, she's originally from another state. She must assume she can act like that, but in such a small-town mentality state; she must now see that she can't get away with it. She's reaping what she sowed. 

Its satisfying; I'm human.


----------



## mtn.lioness

He's been trying for weeks to reconcile. Begging and crying; saying he's made his mistake. Now I find out that he's been online trying to hook up. I'm just so over being nice to him and trying to help! He's such a mess!


----------



## vi_bride04

Cheaters script.....ignore


----------



## mtn.lioness

I want to be strong enough to not answer his phone calls.


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## Headspin

mtn.lioness said:


> I want to be strong enough to not answer his phone calls.


But you *ARE* strong enough - you've not answered them !

Personally I would try to get myself into a frame of mind where as I do, I answer or interact with the stbx in an amicable but indifferent detached way but I know many have to get to this in their own good time 

It's not easy - just keep your focus on what *you* want and what *you* are most comfortable with


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## mtn.lioness

Headspin said:


> But you *ARE* strong enough - you've not answered them !
> 
> Personally I would try to get myself into a frame of mind where as I do, I answer or interact with the stbx in an amicable but indifferent detached way but I know many have to get to this in their own good time
> 
> It's not easy - just keep your focus on what *you* want and what *you* are most comfortable with


I have been there, I have ignored his calls. 

Lately, its gotten more difficult. 

We ended up having a tough conversation and I believe he understands more where i'm coming from... 

I deserve to be treated with love and kindness. He has said all the things I had wanted to hear while he was rejecting me and chooses her over me... I don't want to hear it any longer because no matter what he says it doesn't change what he did. Its a process.


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## MovingAhead

mtn.lioness said:


> I have been there, I have ignored his calls.
> 
> Lately, its gotten more difficult.
> 
> We ended up having a tough conversation and I believe he understands more where i'm coming from...
> 
> I deserve to be treated with love and kindness. He has said all the things I had wanted to hear while he was rejecting me and chooses her over me... I don't want to hear it any longer because no matter what he says it doesn't change what he did. Its a process.


It is very painful, but you are doing quite well. God bless sister.


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## turnera

If it's a cell phone he's calling, change the ring tone for his phone number so you're steeled and can compose yourself and not answer.


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## mtn.lioness

mtn.lioness said:


> I have been there, I have ignored his calls.
> 
> Lately, its gotten more difficult.
> 
> We ended up having a tough conversation and I believe he understands more where i'm coming from...
> 
> I deserve to be treated with love and kindness. He has said all the things I had wanted to hear while he was rejecting me and chooses her over me... I don't want to hear it any longer because no matter what he says it doesn't change what he did. Its a process.


This is confusing, it was late when I typed this... As of today, he has said all the things I wanted to hear that he certainly didn't say when he was rejecting me. 

Thanks for the support, its good to be able to just have somewhere to put my thoughts and get feedback. 

I'll try changing his ringtone to something else and see if that helps.


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## turnera

I recommend this one.
Download Exorcist Theme ringtones to your cell phone - creepy dark ghosts - 41125823 | Zedge


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## Nucking Futs

turnera said:


> I recommend this one.
> Download Exorcist Theme ringtones to your cell phone - creepy dark ghosts - 41125823 | Zedge


Or this one that I use.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3319419/O Fortuna RT.mp3


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## mtn.lioness

Nucking Futs said:


> Or this one that I use.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3319419/O Fortuna RT.mp3


Thanks for the suggestions!


This one actually made me laugh!!

I'm on iTunes looking up something 'creepy' or signifying a warning hehe


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## Philat

Seeing as how he got mixed up with this class act:

_She was sleeping with 4 other guys, plus her husband when he'd visit. She is 28, 5 kids, 5 different dads; two of them are cousins and siblings... she was married, had a baby, then had her brother-in-laws baby._

how about Dueling Banjos for your ringtone?


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## Nucking Futs

mtn.lioness said:


> Thanks for the suggestions!
> 
> 
> This one actually made me laugh!!
> 
> I'm on iTunes looking up something 'creepy' or signifying a warning hehe


I use it because I automatically recoil away from the phone when it starts playing. So does anyone around me.


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## mtn.lioness

Nucking Futs said:


> I use it because I automatically recoil away from the phone when it starts playing. So does anyone around me.


I can definitely see why! Its so intense, thats why it made me laugh.


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## mtn.lioness

He's here. He showed up and insisted on living here because he's on the lease. I haven't been able to go to bed at a decent hour. Being in the same house makes me nauseous. No ring tone needed. I can't sleep. He's just here. I'm keeping cool because my girls miss him and were happy to see him. He needs to leave. I'm so overwhelmed right now!


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## alte Dame

Is he actively trying to get you to agree to take him back or is he just there?


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## mtn.lioness

alte Dame said:


> Is he actively trying to get you to agree to take him back or is he just there?


He is trying to get me to take him back. He wants R
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn

1. Start the 180 hard.
2. Since there are no kids together, you don't need to discuss anything with him.
3. File and be done with it.


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## Jellybeans

mtn.lioness said:


> He is trying to get me to take him back. He wants R
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To which I hope you responded:

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No."


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## hopefulgirl

That's not just immature and disrespectful, it's intimidating for him to do something like that to you - to show up and "insist" he can stay. As a man and a cop, he's bullying you and that's just way out of line! You can't let him stay another night. I get that he's unstable and you're afraid for him, but are you also afraid OF him?

Maybe there's a way to use this to "show" him he needs help - say something like, this is an example of the kind of behavior that shows you he needs help and you're not going to be married to him anymore. SOME people get remarried after they divorce after affairs, so you can tell him you won't rule that out (to get him out of your house today), but you have made up your mind that his behavior is such that you can't rely on him to be your husband. Showing up like this unannounced is disrespectful, and someone more steady and stable who was capable of more empathy for you would realize that - he needs a lot of therapy and treatment before he's going to be marriage material. And right now he's not. Too many bad decisions, too much drinking - he's got to clean up his act. No, you're not going to R, and he needs to leave today.


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## turnera

Have you filed yet?


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## vi_bride04

Do not R with a cheater who doesn't respect you enough to give you the space you need.


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## mtn.lioness

Hi everyone. Sorry for the delay in my response. I was bogged down at work then on Friday I went into the ER because of eye pain, turns out my new contacts (got them on last Tuesday) aren't good for me, even though I've been using this brand for the last how any years... I have an ulcer on my eye. It was weird timing because my ex was here to help me with my med schedule, which included a drop of steroid/antibiotic once every hour for 24 hours...which got extended to 36 hours and I'll be back in the hospital to see if they'll expand it again. I'm glad he was here because the pain pills knocked me out and he kept the med schedule going. 

He's staying in my DDs room, the girls share my older DDs room anyway, it was open. 

I'm too medicated to think about anything of depth right now.


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## Headspin

oh dear


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## LongWalk

Get well!

By the way, when you are up again, could you PM the Cheaterville link?


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## mtn.lioness

LongWalk said:


> Get well!
> 
> By the way, when you are up again, could you PM the Cheaterville link?


Sent!

I'm feeling a little better now. I'm on medical leave until 3/7/14. 

Nothing much has changed. I'm recovering and sleeping quite a bit because of the pain pills. He's taking care of the kids and helping me stay on track with my med schedule.


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## LongWalk

Thanks. Once again Cheaterville proves itself to be an affair buster. 

Perhaps you could cut and paste what you wrote to me? It clarified how far you have come. Your thread makes R look possible, but your PM doesn't.

Hope your eye is healed. I wear glasses. Was always afraid of contacts.

What bothers you most about your BH:

1) lack of trust
2) anger at the idea of him having sex her
3) his plan B'ing you 
4) his lack of emotional commitment to your marriage
5) anger about his willingness to ruin your girls' family for a chance at strange pvssy
6) lack of genuine remorse

Is your love for him eroding away more quickly? Do you feel some tenderness or sympathy for him from time to time? Is being married to him like the booby prize?


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## mtn.lioness

LongWalk said:


> Thanks. Once again Cheaterville proves itself to be an affair buster.
> 
> Perhaps you could cut and paste what you wrote to me? It clarified how far you have come. Your thread makes R look possible, but your PM doesn't.
> 
> Hope your eye is healed. I wear glasses. Was always afraid of contacts.
> 
> What bothers you most about your BH:
> 
> 1) lack of trust
> 2) anger at the idea of him having sex her
> 3) his plan B'ing you
> 4) his lack of emotional commitment to your marriage
> 5) anger about his willingness to ruin your girls' family for a chance at strange pvssy
> 6) lack of genuine remorse
> 
> Is your love for him eroding away more quickly? Do you feel some tenderness or sympathy for him from time to time? Is being married to him like the booby prize?


Copy/paste of my PM to LongWalk:

My stbx and OW have ended their relationship back in December. She chose her husband and kids. My stbx claims he chose me. He claims he stopped talking to her. I read some of their texts and it appears as though she was trying to contact him without success, but it doesn't change things.

He's recently been answering my questions since he's been in the house. He told me that there was a day where he "put everything on the table" and he chose her over me. Knowing what he was giving up. He continues to say that he made a mistake and wants another chance. I just want him to agree to the terms of the divorce.

---

Its been awhile since my eye landed me in the ER, but I'm back at work this week, still unable to drive, now just taking over-the-counter ibuprofen, only as needed... which is when I first wake up and after work... so its not a consistent need at this point. I'm staying with a friend/co-worker and she has been driving me around (I feel like a teenager! Waiting for rides!) A great part of my job involves time on the computer. It has its moments of when my eye "looks tired" and is noticeable to others that it needs rest. 

Its been nice staying with my friend, the kids are with me as my school aged daughter is on spring break and my friend has an adult daughter who is available to watch them while we're at work. Its been quite ideal. 

I won't go into the divorce conversation at this time, I know I should file. I haven't yet. I'm really hoping to get him on board and I know that its advised by most to just go ahead and do it. I will get there on my timeline and I'm okay with that. I do stress over him agreeing with the terms of it and we're closer than ever before to just that. 

I began therapy with a provider who I am really pleased with. She is an expert in her field. I was referred to her after I received the diagnosis of PTSD. I've had a recent diagnosis (within the last 2 years) of adjustment disorder. This clinician provided an assessment explanation as to why the PTSD diagnosis that is based on specific events, not this infidelity with STBX. She would like me to begin EMDR therapy as she believes I'm a good candidate for it. This is an interesting aspect that I'm processing. I haven't had such a specific treatment plan before. I'm looking forward to putting in the work that requires me to deal with the traumas of my past. 

That's a mouthful. 

One day at a time.


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## turnera

EMDR would be really good for you.


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## mtn.lioness

My STBX is being recalled to the Army. I'm scared. All of these feelings are surfacing. His orders are to report within a month. I don't know what to think. The unit is deploying to Afghanistan. I don't want to deal with this during a deployment. I'm not ready. This is so overwhelming.


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## mtn.lioness

mtn.lioness said:


> My STBX is being recalled to the Army. I'm scared. All of these feelings are surfacing. His orders are to report within a month. I don't know what to think. The unit is deploying to Afghanistan. I don't want to deal with this during a deployment. I'm not ready. This is so overwhelming.


Still lost in thought mostly over this... but I wanted to add some details. This would be his second deployment and we were together, engaged, during his first deployment. We 'waited' to get married until after his army active duty contract... we wanted to 'be together' while we were married rather than have to be a part. Whatever. I'm frustrated with my life. I'm upset that this is yet another thing to add to everything... I will worry about him, I will answer his calls and I worry that I will turn my heart around and today I am saying that I don't want that. I'm nervous that the worry of him being over there again will tug at my heart strings. 

I want to scream, where's OW now??? She's got his dog-tags because he gave them to her...its so stupid, I know, I know... but it still bothers me that I supported him through the first deployment and he had given me the tags and he turns around and gives them to her...as if she had anything to do with that part of his life. Now he's getting recalled and where is she? Probably messing with a half a dozen dudes again. And here I am... feeling as though I shouldn't even date while he's there because that could mess with his head, but if he wouldn't deploy than I would date whenever I'm ready. We were done with the army. I didn't think he'd ever get recalled since the military is down-sizing considerably. 

I'm just still in shock from this... totally came out of left-field.


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## LongWalk

The endless war is playing h€ll on many marriages and relationships. You may not have time to divorce him before he departs. You should be clear that you have the right to live like a single person should you so choose.

He gave his dog tags to her. The symbols of love or just some meaningless metal.


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## turnera

Please don't make the mistake of staying with him just because of this. He likely has family and friends who can be his support system. And even if he doesn't, many men make it through deployment on their own.

Stop telling yourself it's your responsibility. He shattered all that with HIS ACTIONS. Not your job any more.


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## LongWalk

If he wants to date you when he returns, you can consider it. Right now you need to live for yourself.

The deployment will surely aid you to detach from him. Economically it probably doesn't hurt to be married while he is there.


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## mtn.lioness

UPDATE

I have been busy working lately. 

I wanted to update my thread... turns out, surprise - surprise, he lied/set up the call. He wasn't recalled. He is still working the same job. We haven't spoke since April. This was the turning point for me, I stopped being 'nice' and have completely changed. I cannot believe that he would do that. I get the PTSD diagnosis, but this is entirely something else. He's changed or he's just finally who he is. Either way I've moved on.

I've sent a few texts trying to coordinate filing. The state I live in requires a diligent inquiry to be able to file a divorce with an estranged spouse...and I cannot have any judgement regarding property if I go that way. I've hired an attorney and we're in a stand-still. I cannot believe that I have to file for an estranged spouse. He refuses to cooperate. I signed my portion and its sitting at my attorney's office for a co-petitioner dissolution of marriage and I've signed the estranged spouse/divorce paperwork, however, I really don't want to go that route. He owes me. My attorney has written him a letter and had it sent to his work site up on the North Slope and he signed that he received it. But no response yet.

So thats whats new regarding that situation. Not too much new there. 

I hope everyone is doing well.


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## hopefulgirl

> Either way I've moved on.


THIS is good news. His lying about the deployment isn't. But it's not too much of a shock, sad to say. He's really got some "issues" hasn't he?

This "turning point" may be a blessing in disguise, as it may be what you needed to help you really move forward. An unpleasant jolt, but maybe the help you got out of it outweighed any damage done.

You will be OK!!


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## Nostopn

2 years ago, my husband confessed on a relationship that lasted for about 7 months, at first he said that we're only friend's but I never by that. She was 29 and my husband was 43. He told me he has something to tell me but a friend recommend that he comes clean because he was visiting his buddy while taking her instead of me. She proposition him to be mistress and still be with me. He met her through along time friend of twenty years and supposedly his girlfriend. He always offered to take her home and that relationship started from there. He would leave for work at 5:30 a.m. And I wouldn't see him till the next morning or days not at all. I pleaded so much for him to come home but he ignored me and lie about where he was. The mental stress was on me day and night but I just took it and tell myself this is just a phase but it wasn't. You see he was also going through a midlife crisis and mentally he wasn't coming back. The OW was devious trying to get my husband to leave me and my kids the whole time of their relationship. He always denied that he had a relationship with her but I never believed it. He was sexually involved with her and in the 3 month of the relationship he told me he wants to leave me but I never ended it. I was so afraid of being alone. If I could go back in that time I would of divorced him. Because I found out later that he had been seeing numerous women on the side even from his FB friends list. The humiliation is overwhelming, that I was the fool that stayed in this relationship and almost lost my job over this too. You have great courage to get out of this and I encourage you to stay strong. My story ended sadly when he was killed almost 8 months ago in a tragic motorcycle accident. I found out that he had someone still on the side. I am dealing with his loss and recover from his infidelities. I don't know what to think sometimes after what I have been through with him. But I do know that forgiveness is part of my healing. 
Courage and strength to you!


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## Psych

Stay strong! You're worth more than this. Boot that clown out of your life. You are mighty! You've come so far since your first post. I'm impressed with your resolve. Keep it up!


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## LongWalk

> I wanted to update my thread... turns out, surprise - surprise, he lied/set up the call.


What a bozo.

Do you own your home together?


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## that_girl

My husband had a "friend" once. She didn't even know he was married. She texted him at all hours ( I saw the texts) and call him "her handsome one". I also saw texts from when he was sitting RIGHT NEXT TO ME and telling her to "have a good day, beautiful."

That was right after he move back home after leaving.

I should never have let him return...I am dealing with that now. It's been 3 years.


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## mtn.lioness

I am eternally updating then jetting off to my busy life.

I am very pleased to say that about a month after the last update, sometime in July, my ex called and asked me to lunch. I met him and saw a window of opportunity. During lunch he asked what I 'really' wanted and told him I wanted a divorce.

He agreed to sign. I had the papers with me, I had every version of filing this sucker with me. We went straight to the court house. I put my pride behind me and paid the damn fee. I kept wanting him to pay it. He's the reason this happened! But I did it and its set. It took months to get on the calendar. We had to wait the mandatory 30 days before we could set it on. November 4, 2014 will be the day its in front of the judge. I asked for nothing, but my name to be changed back to my maiden name. Its nearly 1 year to the day that I discovered his cheating. I'm feeling great about it and seizing the opportunity when I saw it. He has since, like a pattern, asked me to file 'something, anything!' to stop this. But its on its course. 

Its closure. My feelings are not raw at all. I have my moments and certain things still trigger me, but not in the same ways at all. I'm more aware of what was done and I continue to remind myself that I am lucky I became aware of his true colors long before I invested many years and/or had children with him.

We got married, moved to Alaska and the plan was the settle here. He's originally from here. But I've been working at my place of employment for 18 months or so. I'm renting. My kids are getting used to the neighborhood and I'm meeting people that I can depend on and call friends; heck I can even add them to my kids emergency contacts. I'm far from home, but we're making the best out of everything. My plan is to move back 'home' at the end of my lease, May 2016. I have time to relax and explore this great state... I quit smoking. I'm focusing on my health and trying to find better ways to spend my time. I met someone, too. (That's for another thread perhaps)

Nearly a year later. I feel better. Actually, I feel pretty darn great! My outlook on things has changed. Time.. these things take time


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## LongWalk

Wow, great post. Super that you quit smoking. You must be a gym rat now.


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## mtn.lioness

LongWalk said:


> Wow, great post. Super that you quit smoking. You must be a gym rat now.


No, not a gym rat, I'd like to find time to go to the gym! I have an exercise bike thats in my shed. I need to bring it in the house and get on with it already.


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## LongWalk

Do that. Remember that you are cycling to get away from the jerk who infected you with VD and didn't even tell you. Wonder is OWH got it, too. How many guys was she boinking?


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## mtn.lioness

LongWalk said:


> Do that. Remember that you are cycling to get away from the jerk who infected you with VD and didn't even tell you. Wonder is OWH got it, too. How many guys was she boinking?


She was with a lot. I don't recall, that's a good thing! The details are no longer on the tip of my tongue! It was a number of fellow cadets and a few townies I believe. 

OWH had to have gotten something. 

That part of my health has cleared up. I can put it behind me. Well, not always. I'll always have to share that info... blah... but yes..

I'd have to look back, but she did get her job taken away from her. She was demoted to a 911 dispatch from a police officer. There was some scandal that occurred and her chief of police father "resigned" but the city council continued with their investigation. She was part of it. I have limited details. But I felt that came back around rather quickly! It was in the local news papers. My ex was 'humiliated' meh!


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## LongWalk

Now she is limited to EAs. No more sex in squad cars on night patrol.


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## carpenoctem

mtn.lioness said:


> I am eternally updating then jetting off to my busy life.
> 
> I am very pleased to say that about a month after the last update, sometime in July, my ex called and asked me to lunch. I met him and saw a window of opportunity. During lunch he asked what I 'really' wanted and told him I wanted a divorce.
> 
> He agreed to sign. I had the papers with me, I had every version of filing this sucker with me. We went straight to the court house. I put my pride behind me and paid the damn fee. I kept wanting him to pay it. He's the reason this happened! But I did it and its set. It took months to get on the calendar. We had to wait the mandatory 30 days before we could set it on. November 4, 2014 will be the day its in front of the judge. I asked for nothing, but my name to be changed back to my maiden name. Its nearly 1 year to the day that I discovered his cheating. I'm feeling great about it and seizing the opportunity when I saw it. He has since, like a pattern, asked me to file 'something, anything!' to stop this. But its on its course.
> 
> Its closure. My feelings are not raw at all. I have my moments and certain things still trigger me, but not in the same ways at all. I'm more aware of what was done and I continue to remind myself that I am lucky I became aware of his true colors long before I invested many years and/or had children with him.
> 
> We got married, moved to Alaska and the plan was the settle here. He's originally from here. But I've been working at my place of employment for 18 months or so. I'm renting. My kids are getting used to the neighborhood and I'm meeting people that I can depend on and call friends; heck I can even add them to my kids emergency contacts. I'm far from home, but we're making the best out of everything. My plan is to move back 'home' at the end of my lease, May 2016. I have time to relax and explore this great state... I quit smoking. I'm focusing on my health and trying to find better ways to spend my time. I met someone, too. (That's for another thread perhaps)
> 
> Nearly a year later. I feel better. Actually, I feel pretty darn great! My outlook on things has changed. Time.. these things take time




With that statement, Lady, you stand 8 feet tall in my mind.


----------



## wmn1

mtn.lioness said:


> Thanks... I have said the exact expression: he wants his cake and eat it too.
> 
> It is so difficult when her spouse is fine with it and the two of them carry on like its high school. They're both cops!!! How about a little professionalism. Sorry, I'm frustrated.
> 
> I start to think, is it me? Am I the jealous type? But I know it can't be me. The 2 of them are dictating to their spouses that this is happening and there is really nothing we can do about it.


First of all, his talking to the husband of the other guy and making some 'arrangement' is either bs (because most other husbands would tell him to screw off) or the other couple is in one of those open relationships or they were blowing smoke but your husband is out of control and you are young enough that you don't need this crap. Do a 180 and prepare to bail


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## mtn.lioness

I just got out of court. The dissolution of marriage was granted. He apologized to me and said that none of this was my fault and that he's to blame and he repeated that he was sorry. Nearly a year ago this time last year. It's over


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## turnera

{{{mtn}}}

The next step of your life is ahead of you. Another year from now, it'll be a whole new world.


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## mtn.lioness

Thank you turnera

Wow - that was fast, I got the dissolution of marriage decree in the mail.

I just need to go to the DMV to update my license and the Social Security office - I plan to do that on Monday. I want to change my name back as soon as possible.

It's really over, finally.


----------



## turnera

What now?


----------



## mtn.lioness

turnera said:


> What now?


Hmm I've been just thinking about getting my forms of identification updated. 

I just got a promotion at work and moved my office on Friday so that when I return on Monday -I'm all set to go. 

There's not much else in plan. Just living life - maintaining. I go back for a 2 week visit to my hometown in December. Its been a year since everything came to light. 11/11 will mark a year since we separated. Its over already, the whole legal portion. I think thats a good thing! 

I'm trying to focus one step at a time. The bills are paid, the kids are good, and I'm doing well - aspiring at work. Life is good  

My ex is not doing well. He's having paranoid delusions, or he's blatantly lying - which wouldn't surprise me. I'm following the police's advice and not blocking him, but not engaging. He ebbs and flows... each time with more time since the last time he contacts me. I'm hoping with the finalization of the dissolution he'll move on. He was present by phone at the hearing. Only time will tell, but I am making plans to move back to my home state. We'll see.. I'm not entirely sure if I'll settle here or wait. IDK yet. Still waiting to see how I feel about things.


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## turnera

Well, good luck. You deserve it.


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## mtn.lioness

Thank you


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## ifweonly

mtn.lioness--you have been in a war zone and WON!!!

I am a strong supporter of marriage but while you had papers that said you were married --- your ex was not.

I applaud you for all that you have done and please take care of yourself and the children. Tread carefully and wisely --- God Bless you!


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## mtn.lioness

ifweonly said:


> mtn.lioness--you have been in a war zone and WON!!!
> 
> I am a strong supporter of marriage but while you had papers that said you were married --- your ex was not.
> 
> I applaud you for all that you have done and please take care of yourself and the children. Tread carefully and wisely --- God Bless you!


Thank you


----------

