# Recovering after wife cheated



## Guidance (10 d ago)

My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.

I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).

We have had some great sex over this time - and I feel we are re-connecting - being more physical (holding hands etc) and talking more openly about our feelings.

I still have huge trust issues and am talking to the guy she went with, as I feel this too is necessary.

How do I build a greater emotional connection with my wife?
How do I re-build the trust? It is hard to believe what I am told given the cheating - but I do love her - how do I ensure that she not only loves me, but is in love with me? 

Has anyone ever been this situation- how did you turn it around for the better? It is not something I ever thought I would need to discuss or do.

I am trying counselling next week (I have asked my wife to come) but this is mainly due to my anxiety disorder - I am thinking about couples therapy also. I am spending more time with her trying to break the rut I feel we were I , I am trying to be flirtatious (any pointers welcome) I don’t want to lose her, or my family.

cheers


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

AW HELL NO!!!!

Tell her she's free to be friends with him but not as your wife. Then give her two seconds to decide what her decision is. If she hesitates at all choosing you and cutting this guy off file, divorce, and walk away.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

"she said it wasn’t going to happen again"
"It was a mistake"
"She only ever wants me"

Phrases straight out of the cheaters handbook! Don't for a moment think that it was a one time thing. Call a lawyer, get your financials straight and leave.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Also it's NOT your job to "rebuild trust with her"!!

Nor is it your place to "build a greater emotional connection" with her.

You got this all backwards for crying out loud.

SHE CHEATED ON YOU!!

Right now there's NO WAY that she's worthy of being gifted the opportunity to reconcile. 

Also STOP HAVING SEX WITH HER!!!

You both need to be tested for STD.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


@Guidance Heads Up! Doormat is exactly what you are being. She is playing you like a fiddle and you are looking for any positive signs so you can sweep this under the rug.

STOP on everything!

90% chance she is has the other guy waiting for when you cool down.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You should do some research on ''hysterical bonding.'' It's something cheaters do when they think they're going to lose their marriage. It doesn't mean they want to stay married; it just means they're fearful of divorcing.

This is why she wants to stay friends with him, and trust me...the affair will continue, but they'll just find ways to hide it better.

You don't go from planning to get away with someone, and in the next breath, you're ending that type of an affair...willingly. It sounds like it meant something to her.

To answer your questions, healing takes time. You literally just found out she was cheating, last week. If you rush the process out of fear of losing your wife/marriage, you won't heal. And she'll learn that she can cheat on you with zero consequences.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Guidance Heads Up! Doormat is exactly what you are being. She is playing you like a fiddle and you are looking for any positive signs so you can sweep this under the rug.
> 
> STOP on everything!
> 
> 90% chance she is has the other guy waiting for when you cool down.


^^^^^^ this
read it and read it


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

you can stay with your wife, protect your family etc. but you shouldn't deny the facts,

sex with your wife is great because she has experiences with different people, she will continue to sleep with other guys,

open relationship is appropriate for your situation, don't think your wife won't cheat on you or sleep with other guy,

she and you be honest and speak heart to heart, your wife lying to you and you being in therapy for believing the lies won't change the facts.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Guidance said:


> How do I build a greater emotional connection with my wife?
> How do I re-build the trust? It is hard to believe what I am told given the cheating - but I do love her - how do I ensure that she not only loves me, but is in love with me?


1. Work on spending quality time just the two of you, great communication is important, pretend you dating and not married. 
2. Start with her cutting this guy out of her life completely blocked on everything no last chat to explain anything just full ghost.
3. If she will not do #2 there is zero hope she is now or ever will again be in love with you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Recovery after infidelity takes years (not weeks or months) and many times it just isn’t possible to rebuild a marriage. You will never again trust her the way you once did (and you shouldn’t) and you will likely have triggers for a very long time. That’s the reality you face when you choose to reconcile. It’s a tough process and takes a lot effort on the part of the cheater. Some succeed and some don’t. I wish you the best.


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## Jay Bee (Jul 5, 2018)

I wouldn't try to win her back. You really should divorce her but I know it's not easy giving up what you have (kids, home, etc.) If you decide to stay with her I would start seeing some other women on the side. She did it, and will probably continue to, so you might as well have some fun too.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

She went from talking about leaving you for him to all of a sudden only wanting you? Now she wants to still be friends with her long term friend that she started F’ing? Not just no, but he!! No.

Personally, you need to slow down all of this reconciliation talk. It is too soon for you to cave like that with her not only not having any consequences for her betrayal of not just you but her kids too, but on top of that she’s talking about wanting to continue her “friendship.” Even if deep down you do want to R, giving in like that will just lower your value in her eyes.

Is the other dude married or have a girlfriend? If so you need to expose without warning your wife. You need to let her family know what she did. Not in a your daughter/sister is a who.. but in a help me fight for the family. They have a vested interest in the stability of the grandsons/nephews. Also you need access to EVERYTHING.

Lastly there’s a chance that this has been going on for along time. Get a timeline of the affair. you want to know exactly what it is that you’re forgiving. Btw, was she treating you for an and sexually cutting you off before being busted?

Once again, no contact. That friend, I mean POS is forever banned from her life or she can joined the ranks of divorced women with kids.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

happyhusband0005 said:


> 1. Work on spending quality time just the two of you, great communication is important, pretend you dating and not married.
> 2. Start with her cutting this guy out of her life completely blocked on everything no last chat to explain anything just full ghost.
> 3. If she will not do #2 there is zero hope she is now or ever will again be in love with you.


If she had any self-awareness at all, and wanted to stay married, she would have volunteered on her own to remove OM 100% from her life. The fact that she said she wants to remain friends with him tells everything he needs to know. At the very least the two will have strong temptation at times to fall into an FWB scenario.

If she resists immediate counseling, if she shows no real remorse (not annoyance for being caught), then you gotta figure this has likely been going on for some time and it’s a lifestyle. Leave.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


I was EXACTLY you. Listen to me closely. The parallels are incredible and it almost sounds like someone trolling my real life 12 years ago.

Here's what you need to do.

1) Do NOT talk to the OM (other man). You will come off weak and he will just lie to you.
2) Her friendship with him ends. Complete cut off 100% forever. This is non-negotiable. I tried to play with the option of letting my wife communicate with her OM as long as I could see the messages, and just said no physical meetings. I tried this as a compromise. It ate me alive and I tried to read between the lines of the emails. It doesn't work. The ONLY solution is 100% blacklist. She sends a note to the OM saying there will be no more contact. End of story.
3) Do not beg. Calmly tell your wife that anything other than complete cut off will result in divorce. Say this with calm conviction.

Only hard stances/action will work. You cannot waffle.

She may comply, and she will become incredibly depressed and irritable. This is because the dopamine she is getting from him will be gone - it's like a drug, and she will go through withdrawal. This is very real. 

4) Go to the gym and get as healthy and buff as possible. Don't ask for her validation, just do it so she'll notice. She will take this as you preparing for a new mate, and it'll make her jealous
5) Go do things with friends without her. Again, this shows you can have a life without her. She will start wondering if you are seeing women.

Both of these things will make her want to chase you rather than you feeling like you are chasing her. This push/pull reversal is 100% necessary to have a recovery.

Note, the sex you are having right now is called hysterical bonding. This is happening because 1) you are more desperate to claim your wife - the urge is powerful and 2) your wife sees this as a last gasp to cling to any love you've had. It's amazing and powerful and tremendous sex, but it won't last very long.


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

I agree with what most of the previous posters have told you. You are not her priority. If you want to properly reconcile, the other man has to be cut out completely. She has to take full responsibility for her cheating and be 100% into working on the reconciliation and supporting your healing. She must answer all questions honestly, fully and without being defensive. This is just a starting point. If she will not do this, then reconciliation will not be successful. 
She is using the sex to control you. 
If the other man has a partner, let them know what happened. Do this without warning your wife. 
Do not do the pick me dance - begging, pleading, crying in front of her - it makes you look weak and unattractive and it never works.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Oh, and do not grovel and take any responsibility for her affair. A marriage is 50/50, but the affair is 100% her responsibility. Not yours.

If you do this, you will appear weak. Now is the time for strength. This doesn't mean being cruel or mean to her, but do not over-love and chase her around. This will have the exact opposite effect that you are looking for.

And yes, your wife may take this affair underground - using some new app or a burner phone, whatever. Be vigilant.

This is a very good group to listen to. We've all learned the hard way.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


None of this will be what you want to hear but there are two people you cannot trust to do the right thing… your wife who betrayed and cheated on you, and yourself who believe that you need to do everything to save this. 

The hysterical bonding, trying to be the better spouse, thinking about what you can do to get over this, how you can create a “better marriage”… all of it is the absolute wrong thing to do right now. 

What you should be doing is:
1) cutting your spouse down to size. She is a liar, a betrayer, a manipulator and she is NOT a victim, and you cannot turn her into a great wife in a week. You need to treat her like a traitor, and let her figure out how to jump through hoops and remake herself into a wife you MIGHT consider reconciling with… after she straightens her life and self out and not a second before. What you are doing right now is rewarding her for cheating on you. Yes, this hurts to hear but you need to hear it. She does not respect you right now and that will come back to haunt you. 
2) Disconnect emotionally and physically from her for your own sanity and well being until she does the work needed to figure out why she is a disgusting person who would stab her husband and children in the back. She has destroyed you and your family, and you are operating from panic and trauma and doing all the wrong things. You need to face that trauma and hurt head on and you have years of work ahead of you that she cannot help you with, though she will absolutely make it worse if you continue this way 

If you want to save your marriage, gain her respect back (if that’s even possible at this point, it may not be) and put a stop to any of her ideas of keeping her affair partner in your lives… treat her like the betrayer she is and file for divorce. You can stop the process when you see measurable changes in her behavior and actions and true remorse.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If your wife loves you in the least, and cheated on you…….you wouldn’t have to tell her that she should cut the AP out of life. For her to say that she still wants to be friends with him—-shows that she doesn’t have two things that are required: Remorse for what she has done, and respect for you. She’s treating you like a chump. Why does she think you’re a chump?

I’d figure out theanswer to that——and us divorce her.


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

I’m sorry you’re here. I have not had an affair nor has my husband, but I don’t automatically say it’s over 100% of the time. But geez, this was with someone you know, and if she’s that good of friends with him, I’d have to assume you also considered him a friend. This friendship has to end completely, and that she wants to continue it tells you everything you need to know. Literally, everything. It should have been the first words out of her mouth. The way you tell it she doesn’t even sound very remorseful. You absolutely cannot have someone who disrespects your marriage this way - and her kids - in your lives. PERIOD. She has youngish children. She cheated on them too! SHE risked their entire safety net and in-tact family unit and innocence for a romp with her buddy. If you believe it happened this one time, I have a bridge for sale. She is not a quality woman. How can you not see that? You should be pissed and she should be, literally, beside herself with grief and self hatred and begging your forgiveness. She’s already gone, she just doesn’t want to be seen as the bad guy so she’s buying time to change the narrative . She’s not in love with you because you would never, ever hurt someone you love. I’m sure this is terrible to read, but what you think you had was not great. Women in happy marriages who love their husbands don’t accidentally take of their panties and fall on it. And plan trips. Please don’t embarrass yourself.


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## TheGodfather (1 mo ago)

you see when i hear your story i have no feelings involved with your situation unlike yourself which it seems your inlove with your wife and want to make it work. now from what i see here she is not wanting to stop being friends with the man she cheated on you with. you can go to therapy for 10000000 years but the truth is you have 2 choices . stay married to her and allow her to be friends with him knowing full they have been cheating for awhile now and will not stop. she has no intention of stopping for herself or family.
2nd choice .... divorce 
as long as she stays friends it will only drive you crazy so the choice is yours .. you can go to therapy to help with whatever decision you make and i truly wish you the best .. love hurts


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## CTPROF (6 mo ago)

How do I build a greater emotional connection with my wife?
How do I re-build the trust? It is hard to believe what I am told given the cheating - but I do love her - how do I ensure that she not only loves me, but is in love with me?

Has anyone ever been this situation- how did you turn it around for the better? It is not something I ever thought I would need to discuss or do.

I am trying counselling next week (I have asked my wife to come) but this is mainly due to my anxiety disorder - I am thinking about couples therapy also. I am spending more time with her trying to break the rut I feel we were I , I am trying to be flirtatious (any pointers welcome) I don’t want to lose her, or my family.

cheers
[/QUOTE]
It is not your job to rebuild the trust. SHE has to do it since SHE is the one who broke your trust. 
It is up to her to show and prove that she loves only you. That means her actions will tell the story, not her words.
As others have said, do not do the "pick me" dance. It never works and makes you look weak especially compared to the posom. 
As long as you avoid marriage counseling, feel free to get counseling. Marriage counselors are all but useless when it comes to infidelity. If she is serious about reconciliation, she will get counseling because she is the one who is broken.
Finally, do not believe a word she says. Cheaters lie, lie, lie, and lie some more. She has to prove to you that she will be honest with you.


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## Lostlonelyboy (17 d ago)

Lots of good advice above. My two cents is to more or less repeat a theme. She is not trustworthy. You cannot restore trust. She can by doing several things. First she needs to be open and honest about everything. Second she needs to start acting in ways that engender trust. To do that she need to completely separate from the OM. 
Here is what you can do, and doing it will tell you a lot about what you can expect from her. Open the door for her to do the above. So suggest that it is important to you that she cut off all contact. If she doesn't immediately and completely agree that this is best, you can only expect further mistrust. It simply won't get better. Same thing with openness and honesty. Tell her your need for them. See how she responds. Then act accordingly. You will never trust her the same way, I am sorry to say, from what you have said I doubt you will ever have the basis to trust her at all.


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## QuestionAssumptions (2 mo ago)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me.


Are you sure you know the full story and everything that they've done together? You need to ask her to tell everything she's done with him and tell her you need the full truth. If she won't tell you, that's a problem. If she does and tells you it's everything, then ask her if she's willing to take a polygraph test to confirm she's told you everything and is not lying to you.

You can research them and should be able to find companies in your area that administers them in your area that you can check out. Even if you don't think they're reliable, her response to being asked if she'll take a lie detector test could tell you if she's hiding things from you or lying (don't fall for "Why don't you trust me?" -- you don't trust her because she was lying to you).

Cheaters who are honest and want to be trusted and save their marriages typically welcome the opportunity to take a lie detector test to prove they aren't lying. Again, you don't have to trust the tests fully or go through with it, but at least ask her about it and see how she reacts to the request.



Guidance said:


> Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.


If you are unwilling to risk losing your marriage to stop her bad behavior, if your top priority is to stay with her at all costs, then she wins, she controls the situation, and the bad behavior will likely continue because you'll let her get away with it, and you will be a doormat. If she won't cut off the friend she was cheating with, then you and saving your marriage are not her top priority -- that friend is. They've already proven that they can't keep their relationship platonic. That's a bare minimum and a test of how committed she is to staying with you. If you give her a choice between you or him and she picks him, then you've already lost her.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

She only ever wants you, except when she gets to screw him. Let that sink in.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


With everything your doing right now, you’ve basically given her the green light to carry on as usual with the other man. You can say goodbye to her, it’s already over.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

If you like being plan B for your wife's companionship - allow the "friend" to stay.
Do you like being disrespected? - allow the "friend" to stay.
Do you want to be a doormant/rugsweep? - allow the "friend" to stay.
Do you want to see your marriage slowly crumble? - allow the "friend" to stay.
Do you want your children to see by example what kind of father they have that condones
infidelity in a marriage? - allow the "friend" to stay.

I say condone as your one post says nothing about your NOT accepting her infidelity.

Friend in your case where friend and wife did ? (Cheated so we here assume PIV?) and you are OK with that? 

Problems with marriage? Both you and wifey has some responsibility in working out differences.

Her cheating is ALL HER CHOICES and in total disregard for the mental health of your children.

Instead of waffling abouit - go see a divorce specialist lawyer or to and get how divorce works where you live. Lock down your finances to prevent 'retail therapy.' Get all your financial assets paperwork together for when you visit lawyer for consultation. Best you start preparing for the worst outcome. Er, well, 2nd worst outcome. Worst outcome is staying in infidelity which is where you are with your wife having a paramour. 

Wake UP!


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

The Other Man has *GOT TO GO* ... period. Complete 100% No Contact between them.
If this is violated the result for her needs to be divorce. 
If she has any contact with the OM the affair will continue (it most likely is still anyway).
If you fail to take a hard line on this it will only be a matter of when you get divorced whether you or she files. She'll eventually leave you for him or the next one.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

@Guidance , nothing you wrote in your opening post show any desire on the part of your wife to be monogamous with you. Everything you wrote shows that is what YOU want. She wants the other guy. Remember, if you hadn't confronted her, she would still be fully engaged with him. She already told you she isn't going to give him up. And talking to him about it is actually pointless IMO.

So, there isn't anything to build on. There is no path to a successful outcome for your marriage. No matter how much you want that, no matter how much you lover her, the marriage can't be restored. Anytime a reconciliation has even a small chance, the one who left the marriage for another is the one who must want reconciliation more than life itself, and be willing to move heaven and earth to rebuild trust. Your "wife" has none of that.

If you read the threads on here, and there must be thousands in the same vein. I defy you to find even one with anything similar to your story that ended with anything other than misery for the betrayed, sometimes for decades if they insisted on trying to stay with the cheater. All of the successful men filed for divorce ASAP and moved on with their lives. Several recent threads they were done and dating within a year with the cheater in their rear view mirror.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


Oh **** you need to grow a pair. She wants to remain friends?!!!! WTF! No way. Secondly, why in the hell are you talking to this guy?

All you need to say to him... stay the f away from my wife. To your wife, “Me or him...make your choice”.

she wants to stay friends...bye bye woman.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

QuietGuy said:


> Do not do the pick me dance - begging, pleading, crying in front of her - it makes you look weak and unattractive and it never works.


This is a familiar refrain and seems so obvious it would be easy. But how many offering this (wise) advice have been there? It’s not so easy. You want to prove today that you’re worthy of her affection in order to justify you haven’t wasted the last couple of decades of your life, not realizing she was looking for something, someone, else. It’s about not wanting to feel like like you’ve been stupid. It’s even about shame.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Casual Observer said:


> This is a familiar refrain and seems so obvious it would be easy. But how many offering this (wise) advice have been there? It’s not so easy. You want to prove today that you’re worthy of her affection in order to justify you haven’t wasted the last couple of decades of your life, not realizing she was looking for something, someone, else. It’s about not wanting to feel like like you’ve been stupid. It’s even about shame.


Oh I sense the pick me dance on steroids going on.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jay Bee said:


> I wouldn't try to win her back. You really should divorce her but I know it's not easy giving up what you have (kids, home, etc.) If you decide to stay with her I would start seeing some other women on the side. She did it, and will probably continue to, so you might as well have some fun too.


Cheating is wrong no matter who did it first.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Her cutting him out of her life completely should be non negotiable. I can't believe that you aren't enforcing that boundary.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Her cutting him out of her life completely should be non negotiable. I can't believe that you aren't enforcing that boundary.


He cant enforce anything. She already told him she isnt giving up her friend. All that OP can do if he stays with her is watch while she goes out with OM.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


She has to choose. You don't have to corner her by saying she has to de-friend him. Give her the choice. Tell her you she can stay friends with him, just not during the time that she's your wife. If she wishes to remain married to you, he has to go AND YOU HAVE TO WITNESS THE END OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP. If she wants him, she can have him and wish her well for the remainder of her life with him. 

If you can't walk away she will control both you and the terms of your relationship moving forward, which unfortunately will include him secretly. Any softness on your part will work against you and you will lose your dignity and her respect for you. You must act with conviction and purpose.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Oh I sense the pick me dance on steroids going on.


Exactly! And my point is that some of the remarks regarding this border on condescending, which reinforces insecurity. We should be supporting those in need, not making fun of them.


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## QuestionAssumptions (2 mo ago)

You can find an example of someone getting their spouse to finally reveal the full extent their infidelity upon threat of being asked to take a polygraph test, how assurances of "nothing happened" can turn into "way more than you ever imagined happened" when the truth comes out, and the harm that can linger even decades later into reconciliation for the betrayed spouse here.


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## Dormatte (4 mo ago)

You'll never trust her again and will be forever paranoid and checking on her as long as you stay.

The longer you stay, the more miserable and unhappy you'll be. 

No marriage truly recovers from cheating. All those couples and people claiming so in their own personal lives, are lying and trying to sell the lie to themselves and the world.


That sticks with people forever. 
It can never be erased.

That never leaves a persons head. 
That will forever alter the relationship.

You have it all the way turned around.

She's the one who cheated, why are you letting her off the hook and basically groveling and cowarding??


Why are you proving to her that you're worth it??

She needs to be doing everything in her power to work it out ..or tell you that she's divorcing you.


She betrayed your trust. Not the other way around.

Now you're up there trying to appease her, so she doesn't leave you.

And why are you talking to the guy? Are you trying to befriend him and make him comfortable as well??

You have no reason to talk to him. He'll just lie or be bold and tell you the truth because you'll do nothing about it.

They are both going to carry on with each other, and you'll accept it.


You seem like you have very poor self esteem. Learn to love and respect yourself.


Lawyer up and leave her.

Stop trying to make her and her lovers comfortable.


Stop allowing yourself to be treated badly.

Stand up for yourself.

Know your true worth.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Seriously?
If the roles were reversed, how do you think your wife
would be acting now? For her to be making demands
on you is ridiculous. You both need to be tested for STD's.

Your wife has disrespected your marriage and demanding
to remain friends with her OM shows clearly how much she
continues to disrespect you as a marriage partner.
If you do not respect yourself, then who will?


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

While most cannot weather such a trial, there are the off few who can. What is concerning is that she wants to keep a connection of any kind with this guy. That was the first test and she’s failed miserably.

I did every single thing I could to distance myself from my PA, quit my dream career, moved three states away, everything and it was never enough. But I was truly, truly repentant. Your wife doesn’t sound that way at all.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

> How do I build a greater emotional connection with my wife?


You don't build. You make your self available and open to her building the connection with you that she broke. Your job is to observe and determine her authenticity. She must have the will to rebuild. She must have the want-to, patience, and urgency. This will make your assessment of her actions very easy to see if you are willing to see what you don't want to see. She should be jumping through hoops to repair the significant damage she has imparted upon your emotional health and well being, not to mention the harm to the relationship in general. 


> How do I re-build the trust?


Exact answer as above however just to reamphasize, because it is that important I'll say this. It is up to her to rebuild and up to you to determine if she's worthy of reconciliation. If you just give it to her she doesn't earn it she will lose respect for you. Clarity and unwavering terms are required to reconcile. You drive the terms. It's up to her to agree with you or not. Power is in the choice given, not the demands. Demands can reveal weakness and fear of losing her. If you are fearful of losing her, nothing in this entire post will mean anything to you. 


> It is hard to believe what I am told given the cheating - but I do love her - how do I ensure that she not only loves me, but is in love with me?


1) Spouses that cheat malicously and fraudently use the love and trust you have for them to keep you off balance and lost. Being off balance and lost is perfect for her to do her misdeeds. Betrayed spouses must be in the dark in order to fuel the ways of the wayward spouse. 

I recognize you've been loving and believing her for sometime but for your benefit it's best you believe nothing until she's earned it and that may take years. If you just give her reconciliation and trust, it will enbolden her to greater heights of deceit. Quick story so that you can hopefully understand what I'm saying. 

I once had a cousin who was like a brother to me. We were as close as close could be. As we grew into our 30's he became addicted to drugs. To help him clean up his life, I urged him to move from home and with me in my apartment to get a restart in life. It worked for a little while but due to his addiction, he ransacked my apartment and stole hundreds of dollars from me. He was drug addicted and drug addiction compromises all history, morals and beliefs. 

Well, so does unfidelity. Your wife is 100% capable of betraying you over and over again unless you recognize the emotional state that she is in is similar to a drug addict. It sounds excessive, but anyone who's been in an affair can speak to the addictive feelings that overtake them and turn them into someone they've never been before. Take heed to my words here. 

2) Love is a choice. It's not necessarily as you see it with respect to the love vs in-love thing. The choice is everything wrapped up into one. What I mean by this is love is respect for your spouse, the protection of your spouses emotional, physical and psychological well being. Love is patient when it's hard to be. Love is a beautiful thing but without respect and trust it's just beautiful, but not the foundation of a real relationship. For a loving relationship EVERYTHING must be present. Love, trust and respect for starters. By the way, these three things are not bonuses. They are REQUIREMENTS. If they are not present you're just fooling yourself.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, *but I don’t want to lose what we have*.
> *You have a relationship where your wife is banging another dude and still wants to be “friends” with him. Why don’t you want to lose that?*
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


I'm trying to figure out s was high is worse, her cheating or your response.
you truly need to do a George Costanza “Opposite Day”, except make it a full year. Regarding your wife, every time you have a thought about taking an action, just do exactly the opposite of what you think you should do. You might be ok then.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> But how many offering this (wise) advice have been there? It’s not so easy.


Been there. I did the pick me dance like a champion!

OP, a cheater (male or female) cannot respect you or see any reason to treat you right if you tolerate their ****ting on you. Holding them 100% accountable and taking away their entitlement to be in a relationship with you is the only way to have any chance at rebuilding a healthy life.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It’s not YOUR job to reconnect with her.

It is HER job to do all of that. Rebuild your trust, rebuild your marriage. Make effort to reconnect you you.

She ruined your marriage - it’s on her to do the work to repair the damage she caused.

You sit back and wait. Wait and see if she ends that “friendship” (with the guy who helped ruin your marriage! If she won’t - divorce her asap!


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Been there. I did the pick me dance like a champion!
> 
> OP, a cheater (male or female) cannot respect you or see any reason to treat you right if you tolerate their ****ting on you. Holding them 100% accountable and taking away their entitlement to be in a relationship with you is the only way to have any chance at rebuilding a healthy life.


I did it for a short time. It is one of my biggest regrets, a true source of shame. It is humiliating, as well as ineffective and counter productive. 
The OP needs to face the fact, difficult as it may be, that his wife prefers the OM to him and she is blowing smoke up his butt in order to avoid consequences, financial and social. 
At some point it dawned on me: this " prize" I was competing for, was no prize at all. Like OP' s wife, she was a liar, someone with no integrity or loyalty.
If OP goes the route he is attempting, some day he will be mortified by his weakness.
He should divorce this woman and let folks know why.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

@Guidance , as a BH, I am going to give you some advice. ”Listen” to some of us experienced members and consider and think about what we are trying to convey. I am seven years in R after discovering my wife’s affair. This pain is like no other.

First and foremost she should be moving heaven and earth to make it up to you. Her desire to remain friendly with POSOM does not cut it. This is non negotiable he has to go.

Pick me dance will fail 100% of the time. Women respect strength, that is how, they are wired. You must portray strength and indifference. Read up on the 180. Implement it and use it to help you get through this **** storm.

You mention in your initial post _*Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.*_

My question is what do you have? There is something broken in her, not you, for her to do this. It was not a mistake she made. She made a decision to cheat. As for marriage counseling, in my opinion, it is not time. She needs to be in IC to fix what is broken in her. She wants to remain friends after she fantasized about leaving you for him? BIG HURDLE to leap over.


_*Has anyone ever been this situation- how did you turn it around for the better? It is not something I ever thought I would need to discuss or do*_.

I have been in this situation and I made mistakes most notably the pick me dance once I new something was wrong. I was all over the radar. Thankfully, I listened to those who had been there and done that. Gathered evidence, and busted them. I went nuclear, left our house for six weeks, and knocked her to her knees with my unpredictable actions. I had the petition for divorce drawn up, did the 180 as best I could and she came after me. I followed good solid advice from folks on here. You should too.

i would encourage you to read to books. “Grow a Pair” by Larry Winget, and No More Mr, Nice Guy. Both easy reads with a solid message. Set boundaries and take No ****.

PM me if you have questions.


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## masterofmasters (Apr 2, 2021)

please don't take all these comments the wrong way. you are getting EXCELLENT advice!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


*First off if this person she cheated with has a spouse tell them, it's the moral thing to do. If they are a great friend it's probably been ongoing maybe the whole time she has known him.*

This is the thing cheaters lie and they are well practiced and good at it. * You probably have no idea and you should operate out of the assumption that you don't.* Don't assume she is telling you the truth now, she has motivation to lie and minimize as much as possible. As hard as it is to say and I hate saying it, you need to DNA test your kids.

Second you say you don't want to lose what you have but you just it too much shock to see that it's too late, what you had is gone and your marriage will never be the same. Again not fun writing that either but it's the truth and you will see that as your start to heal.

Right now you should be concentrating on empowering yourself and detaching. You need to get strong and defend yourself. You should be watching her actions but also getting to the point that you will be OK without her. Then after you heal and get strong again you can make the decision to stay from a position of strength based on what the quality of your life will be moving forward.

I am sorry, I know this is not the hope you are looking for, but there is still hope but it needs to be found in you, not her or the marriage. As hard as it is to see right now, you will have joy again.


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## SearchingForHope (4 mo ago)

Hi Guidance,
Are you coping with the responses?
We seem to be fairly unified about the relationship of your wife with her AP.
And many people have articulated why they believe this continuing relationship to be dangerous to your marriage.

How is your wife going about rebuilding trust with you?
What consequences has she experienced?
What changes has she made to her life to ensure that this adultery doesn't occur again (its no good simply saying that it won't happen again)?

Did you want to share more details about the cheating?
Was it a ONS or a short EA and PA?
If you provide more details then we can better assist you.
We are thinking of you and supportive of you.
Regards, 
SfH


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


*Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
I still have huge trust issues and am talking to the guy she went with, as I feel this too is necessary.*
Sorry my friend you`ll have to swallow the bitter pill and recognise that you lost what you had from the moment your wife cheated and you do have the word doormat printed on your forehead.
Why the h*ll are you talking to the guy she cheated with and is still having an affair with by the sound of it, other than threatening to (can`t say on here or else I`ll be banned).
Visit a lawyer, obtain advice and file for divorce and including her AP as a co-defendant in the divorce.
Otherwise I can only wish you good luck.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Guidance said:


> *My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas*. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said* it wasn’t going to happen again* - *it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me.* Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and *she wants to stay friends with him*. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> ...We have had some *great sex over this time - and I feel we are re-connectin*g - being more physical (holding hands etc) and talking more openly about our feelings.
> 
> ...


Most of the advice is spot on. A few thoughts.

First, get STD tested and make her get tested. It does not matter at all what she says get tested and have her get tested.

Second, counseling for you next week is absolutely the right thing to do. Your first priority should be to figure out what you want and if YOU ARE SURE YOU WANT TO RECONCILE. Use you counselor to explore those questions. Back off on your trying to reconcile things with your wife. After you get your head straight, you may just want to file for divorce. Also ask the counselor about how you need to interact with your children based on their age. You should not jump into bed for mad sex with your wife right now, she is using sex to play you. You should keep her at arm's length until you really figure out what you want and need. You children will notice when that happens, so be prepared for questions from them.

Third, you really don't want to "rug sweep" what she did as that will only encourage her. You also don't want her to use sex to distract you and force you to emotionally bond with her, just because of sex. You have children to protect and raise.

The advice you have been given that I disagree with most is along the lines of forcing her to do what you want. A harsh fact of life is you can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. Only your wife can change herself and then only if she wants to. You can however, refuse to accept being treated in certain ways. You can also set boundaries on how you will be treated. But ultimately your wife will act how she wants to act. Your boundaries may include that you will divorce her and seek 100% custody of your children and she can choose to retain this OM as a friend and accept that divorce will be a consequence of her actions, but it will be her choice and her actions. The difference is you are not telling her what to do or demanding what she must do; but you are explaining what treatment from her you will accept and you understand that she gets to do what she feels is best for her, but she needs to understand that you are now different and will not accept certain behaviors from her once you set your boundaries. 

*I think you need to call a "time out" with your wife, while you get your head together.* You are still in a state of shock. What you posted indicates that you are not thinking correctly yet. Don't talk to the OM, don't have any more sex with your wife until you have the STD tests back. 

You need to use your time with a counselor to help sort things out in your mind. I would also talk to an attorney about what your options are, you chances of getting full custody of your children, what kind of financial hit you might be looking at if you divorce her, anything you should do to protect yourself if she goes all crazy on you (drains financial accounts, spends money like crazy, calls the police on you claiming you hit her, etc.).

If you do decide after due consideration that you want to reconcile this failed marriage, I would like to suggest a few things. Your wife needs to have absolutely no contact ever again with the OM. Your wife needs to absolutely commit to do devoting herself to the reconciliation process. Your wife needs to commit to whatever relationship boundaries the two of you agree to in marriage counseling. Your wife also needs to understand that it will take years for you to trust her again. You both need to realize that the "marriage you had" is over and can not be regained. If both of you are committed to it and work very hard at it you can build a new marriage that over time may involve trust and love, but it will never be the same as what the two of you had. She destroyed that marriage. The best you, your kids and your wife can hope for is to work for a new relationship and marriage.

Good luck for you and especially for your children. As you contemplate your future and the future of your children, know that there are a lot of single fathers out there and that your focus should be on your children and yourself. Your wife needs to salvage what she can for her future.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

He


Rus47 said:


> He cant enforce anything. She already told him she isnt giving up her friend. All that OP can do if he stays with her is watch while she goes out with OM.


He can get her to choose the OM or the marriage. Why would anyone put up with her still seeing the OM????


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

How old are you both? How old is the friend, who is he, and how long have they been friends? Is he married too?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> He
> 
> He can get her to choose the OM or the marriage. Why would anyone put up with her still seeing the OM????


People in OP's situation put up with a lot of things those of us not in that situation can't imagine. There are tons of threads on here with betrayed making excuses for their cheater, taking the blame, trying to nice them back, doing the pick me dance, anything to avoid getting loose from the cheater. Because they love the cheater.

As someone else wrote in a post on this thread, it is easy for those of us who haven't walked that path to advise to just divorce and move on. But the OP is new to this, he is still raw from the betrayal and is trying to "fix" it with his own actions. My only point is she has already told him that she isn't going to stop being "friends" with OM. You are correct that he should make her choose, but she has already told him what her choice is. So if he wants to remain married to her then the OM will remain in the picture.

My advice was to divorce ASAP, but OP isn't to that point and maybe never will be.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

.


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## Butforthegrace (Oct 6, 2021)

You've gotten excellent advice. She had sex with an "old friend" around Christmas. "Old friend". Nope. "A dude she's know for a long time who has been waiting for a chance to get into her panties, and will take another chance in the future if he gets it." He's out of her life, period.

Get tested for STD's. No unprotected sex with your WW until you have done that, and she has too.

Read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. She should read it too. She should do everything it recommends, including the written timeline. AFTER she gives you the timeline, share it with the wife of the AP (if he has one). Do this without telling your WW that you plan to do this.

Also, read "Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life".

Finally, spend an hour's fee (around $1,000 plus or minus) to consult with a good divorce lawyer. This is NOT to file divorce. Rather, this is to inform yourself of what divorce would look like, both during and after the process. Information is power.

Keep in mind that your WW is an independent actor. She has already decided that it is worth losing her marriage and breaking up her family for an opportunity to have sex with her "old friend". She could very well decide to take the next step and end the marriage formally. You have no control over her, and should not try. 

Do NOT let her get away with using the word "mistake". A mistake is forgetting your car keys in the car, or using baking soda instead of baking powder. Another man's **** inside of her vagina, that's not a mistake. Did she think it was a feminine product? I'm pretty sure she made dozens of choices -- first touch, first kiss, first furtive feel of his **** outside his pants, first taking off her top, then her panties, first assuming the position, first being excited enough to be wet., etc.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Guidance said:


> We have had some great sex over this time - and I feel we are re-connecting - being more physical (holding hands etc) and talking more openly about our feelings.


That's called 'hysterical bonding.' That happens a lot when infidelity is discovered. I see it as REWARDING a cheater for ****ting all over you but some see it as a couple 'reclaiming' their bond and intimacy. Cheating women have also used this technique to bedazzle a betrayed man because sadly, a lot of them can be swayed simply by good sex. Just a sad truth folks, not being snarky.

*



How do I build a greater emotional connection with my wife?

Click to expand...

*


> _*How do I re-build the trust? It is hard to believe what I am told given the cheating - but I do love her - how do I ensure that she not only loves me, but is in love with me?
> *_
> *Has anyone ever been this situation- how did you turn it around for the better? It is not something I ever thought I would need to discuss or do.*



Just about EVERYONE here has been in this situation. Most ended up leaving their cheaters from what I can tell, though some chose to brave it out and stay. I, personally, have far too much self-respect to ever re-commit to someone who thought it was perfectly ok to **** all over me over and over and over again. But you're choosing to do that, and the pickle on the **** sandwich this prize has served up to you is that she STILL wants to be "friends" with her boyfriend. 

Find your dignity, OP.

Your biggest mistake is that you're so damned eager to hold onto this pize that YOU'RE doing all the work. It's your cheating, lying wife's job to CLEAN UP this mess, not yours. And she has SO LITTLE respect for you that not only is she doing NOTHING to fix this (besides bedazzling you with sex) she has the unmitigated GALL to want to remain friends with her lover. I mean seriously, what other egregious behavior do you need to SEE from this woman before you finally start respecting yourself?

If I'm being honest, you sound needy, clingy, weak, and desperate. That just sends the message to her that even though she has disrespected you literally on *every* single level (and she's STILL doing so because she wants to keep lover boy as her 'friend') *you're* still right there begging her to love you and trying to sweep her garbage under the rug as fast as you can. Sheesh.

Talk to your therapist about finding your dignity, OP. And ask your therapist if you're codependent. Having "anxiety" is *no* excuse and *no* reason for having no self-respect and no pride, and being so willing to accept precious LITTLE from someone you're giving 100% to. Find your dignity, OP.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Guidance said:


> Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him


Think about that a bit. Of course he is a "great friend" of hers. I have no doubt he has been banging her as long as she has known him..Contemplate THAT. How long has she known him? Maybe since before you married her? Of course she wants to remain "friends", she enjoys being with him and doesn't want to give that up.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

I have my doubts if OP will be back.
He read for the first hour after posting and hasn't returned.

Not sure he can handle the truth; it's not the help he wanted.

We'll see.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Guidance said:


> My wife and partner of 14 years - mother of my sons cheated on me just before Christmas. I confronted her on December 28 - and she said it wasn’t going to happen again - it was a mistake, and she only ever wants me. Problem is the person she was with was a great friend of hers, and she wants to stay friends with him. I’m not wanting to be a doormat, but I don’t want to lose what we have.
> 
> I saw text messages during their time about them wanting to get away and to be with each other (prior to me confronting her) - I spoke with her about her use of her phone (she was hiding it).
> 
> ...


Let your wife know she lost her ability to make decisions about being friends with this guy when she lost control and crossed boundaries. I find it very odd she would want to remain friends with him. What is her reason for 'wanting to remain friends'. A truly dedicated person would cut him out of her life and never look back.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Let your wife know she lost her ability to make decisions about being friends with this guy when she lost control and crossed boundaries. I find it very odd she would want to remain friends with him. What is her reason for 'wanting to remain friends'. A truly dedicated person would cut him out of her life and never look back.


It isn't odd. She knows exactly what she is doing. She has a pushover for a husband and she will keep the guy around as her side piece. And if she were truly dedicated she wouldn't have slept with her "friend" in the first place.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I have my doubts if OP will be back.
> He read for the first hour after posting and hasn't returned.
> 
> Not sure he can handle the truth; it's not the help he wanted.
> ...



Exactly. I read his OP within the hour of his post. I didn't bother giving my opinion because just by what he wrote I knew he wasn't going to post again after he read some of the replies that he was going to get. This type of men are pretty predictable, but I hope that I'm utterly wrong in this case, but I doubt it.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Starting to feel like a drive by poster. What a waste that would be.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It isn't odd. She knows exactly what she is doing. She has a pushover for a husband and she will keep the guy around as her side piece. And if she were truly dedicated she wouldn't have slept with her "friend" in the first place.


I completely agree with you, but I don't understand how anyone could have the bal** to ask that question. It really is bold, and who the heck would agree to that?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

GC1234 said:


> I completely agree with you, but I don't understand how anyone could have the bal** to ask that question. It really is bold, and who the heck would agree to that?


From experience, I can tell you it's one of two things. Either 1) they feel they've been wronged in the marriage and deserve to keep the friend as payback, or 2) they are so deep in the fog that they will do whatever they can to keep the dopamine they are addicted to, and don't see reason.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Gabriel said:


> From experience, I can tell you it's one of two things. Either 1) they feel they've been wronged in the marriage and deserve to keep the friend as payback, or 2) they are so deep in the fog that they will do whatever they can to keep the dopamine they are addicted to, and don't see reason.


I see what you're saying. If it is the fog, then OP's wife should end the marriage.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

GC1234 said:


> I see what you're saying. If it is the fog, then OP's wife should end the marriage.


Not necessarily. My earlier post outlines how you break the fog. You simply have to take away the drug and make them go through withdrawal. Once back to their senses, a big bright light shines on the mess they've created.

No husband can compete with a fantasy. An affair with a friend doesn't have to deal with children, bills, cleaning the house. It's only the fun stuff. Breaking the fog is a huge reality check.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> I see what you're saying. If it is the fog, then OP's wife should end the marriage.


As long as a cheater can have the cake and eat it too, that is what they will do. If she can keep the OM for the fun and keep OP eating out of her hand, that is what she will do. Someone to watch the kids and pay the bills while she being railed by the OM. And OP still enthusiastically accepting sloppy seconds.

She has TWO men chasing her! Think of the high, realizing she is so wonderful she has two males doing whatever they can to remain with her.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Gabriel said:


> Not necessarily. My earlier post outlines how you break the fog. You simply have to take away the drug and make them go through withdrawal. Once back to their senses, a big bright light shines on the mess they've created.
> 
> No husband can compete with a fantasy. An affair with a friend doesn't have to deal with children, bills, cleaning the house. It's only the fun stuff. Breaking the fog is a huge reality check.


That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> As long as a cheater can have the cake and eat it too, that is what they will do. If she can keep the OM for the fun and keep OP eating out of her hand, that is what she will do. Someone to watch the kids and pay the bills while she being railed by the OM. And OP still enthusiastically accepting sloppy seconds.
> 
> She has TWO men chasing her! Think of the high, realizing she is so wonderful she has two males doing whatever they can to remain with her.


I hadn't thought of it that way. But it seems the AP has let her go, from what I have read?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

GC1234 said:


> I see what you're saying. If it is the fog, then OP's wife should end the marriage.


On this fog, why did she not dump the husband for the OM?

1) It is possible that the POSOM will not (now, or ever) take her on, full time, if she divorces. 
He would be marrying a cheater.

2) Or, this WW knows that he is a great friend and lover (in her mind), but not husband material.
That seems obvious, at this point.

I see it as a tossup, which is the better answer.
If forced to choose, I would go with #2.

I agree with others, that the OM is a long term F buddy.


_Gwendolyn-_


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

OP, you need to do what is right for you.
Only you can truly decide what is best for your situation.
If I were in your shoes, I'd be helping her pack her stuff.
However, this is about you, and you have expressed a desire to stay with her.
If you are going to do so, and you wish any shot at success, you need to be prepared to deal from a position of strength.
That means, that you need to go *SCORCHED EARTH ON HER,* and be prepared to put her through *THE GRIND.*

The first thing you do is get your financials sorted.
Then you study up on and implement the 180:









The Pretzel Logic of the 180 - ChumpLady.com


If you’ve spent any time reading the reconciliation literature, you’ll notice a lot of reference to the “180.” She won’t stop seeing her affair partner? “Do the 180!” He still works with his ho-worker? “Do the 180!” What is this powerful 180? It was a concept developed by Michelle Weiner-Davis...




www.chumplady.com





Then you go out and find the toughest SOB of a solicitor that you can find, and you have her served cold and hard.
This is called an* ATTENTION GETTER.*
This should* HARSH HER BUZZ *and totally stupify her, because she thinks that you are a pushover that is totally incapable of such a move.

At this point, you will truly see what you have. If you start to see true remorse, you may have something to work with.
If she doesn't show any, let the process continue unfettered, and flush her out.
If you have an extra bedroom, move her and her stuff in it. If you don't, secure your bedroom with a lock and put all her stuff in an available space. She sleeps on the couch.
*You are now in control, and any reconciliation is on your terms.*
When she starts talking tell her *THE FRIEND IS GONE *before you will even engage in any discussion with her. She severs this relationship in a manner that meets your requirements.
Since she has *DESTROYED ALL TRUST AND HAS PROVEN HERSELF UNTRUSTWORTHY,* she now has to suffer the consequences for that. Social Media? Nope. Phone and computers? Trackers on them. Car? GPS on it. You can add onto that as you see fit. *IF SHE WANTS TO STAY WITH YOU, SHE WILL HAVE TO DO THE WORK TO EARN TRUST BACK.* That means she will need IC, with a counselor that you vet and choose (give her an array of a couple to pick from) and make sure that she gives them authorization to inform you if she is not attending the sessions.

There are several other things that can be added this, you will find them on this site. The point is that her sense that she runs you needs to be destroyed. You decide whether or not she has a future with you, and if so, it will be on your terms.
You may want to purchase a copy of this book and read it. After you are done with it, give it to her to read. Consider it as a template of what your expectations are for her. Tell her that she can use it as a guideline, however you expect and demand that she augment that significantly:









How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair


As an infidelity specialist for 23 years, therapist Linda J. MacDonald has identified behaviors and attitudes that determine unfaithful p...



www.goodreads.com





Women don't like or respect weak men. Whether you stay or go, you better correct that quickly. Some reading for you:









Robert Glover No More Mr Nice Guy : Robert Glover : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


Self Help



archive.org


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> People in OP's situation put up with a lot of things those of us not in that situation can't imagine. There are tons of threads on here with betrayed making excuses for their cheater, taking the blame, trying to nice them back, doing the pick me dance, anything to avoid getting loose from the cheater. Because they love the cheater.
> 
> As someone else wrote in a post on this thread, it is easy for those of us who haven't walked that path to advise to just divorce and move on. But the OP is new to this, he is still raw from the betrayal and is trying to "fix" it with his own actions. My only point is she has already told him that she isn't going to stop being "friends" with OM. You are correct that he should make her choose, but she has already told him what her choice is. So if he wants to remain married to her then the OM will remain in the picture.
> 
> My advice was to divorce ASAP, but OP isn't to that point and maybe never will be.


For many, the non-negotiable rule not to see the OM/OW again is paramount. 
Sorry but anyone who doesn't make that the first rule is weak.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> I completely agree with you, but I don't understand how anyone could have the bal** to ask that question. It really is bold, and who the heck would agree to that?


I can give you an example of how are narcissist can be intelligent, yet so disordered that she will say things that make her look like an idiot. It as if there is some type of mental block that prevents them from realizing how others will perceive them after they say things that a normal person would know reveal narcissism. 
My XW stayed out until after midnight for 112 out of 180 nights in a 6 month period. I tracked this because I doubted my perception and thought, perhaps, I was magnifying the extent of absences. Unbeknownst to me at that time, shecwas going to bars and picking up strange men vs being out journaling about her FOO issues as she claimed.
I confronted her about this( we had two toddlers who would rarely see her),
Her response:" of course I get more time out than you. I have more friends than you."
Another time, she came home at 2AM, woke me from a sound sleep, and proceeded to describe the physique of some young pro athlete she had met in a bar and who she drove home to his apartment. 
When I inquired the next day why she would have done this, she proceeded to tell me that she knew I would be upset at her coming home so late, so she had hoped, since I was a good college athlete, I would be intrigued by the description of his physique and thus forget about being upset by her lateness. 
Now, my XW graduated law school magna cum laude. These things she said would be an embarrassment to even an individual with a low IQ. These statements were so revealing of her narcissism that it is unbelievable that she would not realize it.
So, bottom line: I think their disorders are just so severe that sometimes they are overpowering and the narcissist slips and reveals herself. This is known as the mask slipping off for a bit.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

So assuming OPs wife is a narcissistic person, what difference does it make for him? He has said he is willing to do anything to remain married to her.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

She threw your marriage away when she cheated, she should be the one trying to save it, not you.

It wasn't a "mistake", it was a series of many intentional decisions that lead to that.

The thrill of it has captured her, and it is very likely that you haven't seen the end of it....

You need to start moving on, rapidly.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Please don’t delude yourself into believing she only had sex with him once, and wants to remain friends with him but isn’t still having sex with him.

what you’re not seeing is that you still haven’t gotten out of infidelity. Your weak behavior is why. I know you’re not coming back but reading things that hurt don’t mean they aren’t helpful. It hurts like hell to get a gangrenous foot removed. But it’s either endure that pain or die of the infection. Similar thing here with infidelity.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Rus47 said:


> Think about that a bit. Of course he is a "great friend" of hers. I have no doubt he has been banging her as long as she has known him..Contemplate THAT. How long has she known him? Maybe since before you married her? Of course she wants to remain "friends", she enjoys being with him and doesn't want to give that up.


Yea Rus, that’s my fear for the OP. That this affair has been going on much longer than he thinks. It’s obviously more intense than he realizes, with her talking about leaving OP for him. That’s when you know the WW is in deep. If this is indeed a recently started affair, it could by a situation like Cicci , who thought she was impregnated with twins by her married “friend.” She had that guy as an orbiter for years despite her husband being suspicious; yet nothing happened until she started having problems with her husband. So there’s a chance that it really is a recent affair.

I just feel really bad for the guy because I can hear the desperation to “save” his family. He’s desperately trying to rug sweep but with a WW who’s probably just laying low for a while before she goes back to her “friend,”. There’s nothing for him to work with. And with him talking about the hysterical bonding they’ve done, I suspect that their sex life was down or completely cut off during the affair.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Can't believe he is trying so hard to forgive her and it has only been two weeks. That should take more like two years (of effort by her).

He is teaching her that she can do this sort of thing and he will accept it, which will make him look weak to her (or any female), and that will begin the death spiral of the relationship... she will continue to trample on OP, and he will continue to take it... until he gets feed up and calls a spade a spade.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

jsmart said:


> And with him talking about the hysterical bonding they’ve done, I suspect that their sex life was down or completely cut off during the affair.


We likely never know, OP evidently has abandoned his thread. But your suspicion is well founded. She is obviously emotionally invested so wouldnt want to “cheat” on her AP. Once discovered, she readily turned on the sex to reel OP back and sedate his dignity. SOP for cheaters


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> That's called 'hysterical bonding.' That happens a lot when infidelity is discovered. I see it as REWARDING a cheater for ****ting all over you but some see it as a couple 'reclaiming' their bond and intimacy. Cheating women have also used this technique to bedazzle a betrayed man because sadly, a lot of them can be swayed simply by good sex. Just a sad truth folks, not being snarky.
> 
> 
> Just about EVERYONE here has been in this situation. Most ended up leaving their cheaters from what I can tell, though some chose to brave it out and stay. I, personally, have far too much self-respect to ever re-commit to someone who thought it was perfectly ok to *** all over me over and over and over again. But you're choosing to do that, and the pickle on the *** sandwich this prize has served up to you is that she STILL wants to be "friends" with her boyfriend.
> ...


This is excellent. How on earth can anyone expect another person to have any level of attraction for himself while groveling like a beggar? 
One day, you may look back on your lack of self respect and be absolutely mortified to have acted in such a pathetic manner.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Maybe he can try the old Plan A, Plan B from marriagebuilders. You know, the site that recommends waiting hand and foot on the cheater, meeting all her " needs" to make the marriage a" more attractive place".

My God, I cannot believe any self respecting person would ever listen to any of the garbage from that site.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

OP, you probably feel the advice you are getting is harsh, but stick with us (if you haven't already bailed), we are here to help you through this and see reality for what it really is. Rugsweeping this affair will come back to bite you in the long run... eventually, you will understand what she has done to you and the marriage, we're trying to get you to that point now.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> For many, the non-negotiable rule not to see the OM/OW again is paramount.
> Sorry but anyone who doesn't make that the first rule is weak.


I have come to the realization, through experience and time, that a betrayed should never set rules. Demand. Or even ask the cheater for anything.

Anyone with half a brain knows that they shouldn’t cheat, lie and betray. And if they do they need to cut the AP out of their life and do everything to make it up to their spouse. ASKING the cheater to be a half decent person so you can keep them is placing them in a position of power, and makes the betrayed subservient. Just the asking, in my experience, creates a power imbalance and deepens the disrespect.

Solution: Nothing says “Your behavior is unacceptable and won’t be tolerated” like legal paperwork. And oddly, when the cheater touches these tangible papers with their name all over them, that’s when you can see what you’re working with. Very little needs to be said. The papers are powerful.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I have come to the realization, through experience and time, that a betrayed should never set rules. Demand. Or even ask the cheater for anything.
> 
> Anyone with half a brain knows that they shouldn’t cheat, lie and betray. And if they do they need to cut the AP out of their life and do everything to make it up to their spouse. ASKING the cheater to be a half decent person so you can keep them is placing them in a position of power, and makes the betrayed subservient. Just the asking, in my experience, creates a power imbalance and deepens the disrespect.
> 
> Solution: Nothing says “Your behavior is unacceptable and won’t be tolerated” like legal paperwork. And oddly, when the cheater touches these tangible papers with their name all over them, that’s when you can see what you’re working with. Very little needs to be said. The papers are powerful.


I have often wondered how it is acceptable to betrayed folks attempting to reconcile to have to insist on decent behavior and to have to monitor it going forward. Have some self respect. If you feel the need to threaten someone with consequences in order to make them act decently, respectfully etc what value is there in such a relationship?
Just serve divorce papers pronto. Do not buy into all this garbage re affairs acting as a catalyst for a better marriage. That is absurd. You do not catalyze someone into having a conscience or empathy or integrity. They either have these qualities by adulthood or they will never have them.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Solution: Nothing says “Your behavior is unacceptable and won’t be tolerated” like legal paperwork. And oddly, when the cheater touches these tangible papers with their name all over them, that’s when you can see what you’re working with. Very little needs to be said. The papers are powerful.


Great advice! And having been served as target of a lawsuit I can attest how powerful the paperwork is, especially delivered to one's front door by a process server. For me it ranked up near top of stressful circumstances in my life. Got my attention. 

Further, the actual process of litigating the suit takes a long time. So filing the lawsuit for divorce doesn't mean that it must carry through to conclusion.

I have often thought if a betrayed person filed for divorce on day one and went NC, they would be miles ahead of the situation.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

She has some nerve. That's all I gotta say.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

He done R U N N O F T.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> He done R U N N O F T.


Sadly, it looks that way. There has been some excellent advice here. I think if he were to read your thread, that would help him understand.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> He done R U N N O F T.


Liklee run oft by ya'all !


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Liklee run oft by ya'all !


C'mon Sun, you should know by now that there are certain type of people that can't face the truth. The moment they start to read their truth, can't take it . They immediately stop reading, closed their browser, get so embarrassed and within themselves pretend that they didn't read what they read. Gone to bury their head in the sand


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Rob_1 said:


> C'mon Sun, you should know by now that there are certain type of people that can't face the truth. The moment they start to read their truth, can't take it . They immediately stop reading, closed their browser, get so embarrassed and within themselves pretend that they didn't read what they read. Gone to bury their head in the sand


Sadly Rob, we get so many threads started and abandoned just that way. TAM is an excellent source for support but it can be overwhelming for some. Now he will most likely go for some marriage counseling, in which he will be berated for not forgiving her already and be admonished for being controlling. I could hear it already “_What kind of a husband tries to stop his wife from being friends with a guy? She said she would stop F’ing him a few weeks ago. Geez, don’t be so insecure, besides, she already said sorry._” SMH.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> Liklee run oft by ya'all !


So how to avoid that? Say nothing? Tell OP in this case to continue as he is doing and all will be fine? Acquiesce to his "wife" continuing to be "friends" with her OM?

Actually, OP could read some threads started by others just like him and read the standard cheater's playbook, the standard responses by a lot of betrayed, and how well that worked for them And read the advice from others, just as "harsh" as what he received here.

IMO what is deemed "harsh" is somewhat like treatment for a melanoma. The doctor is going to cut it out ASAP. As much as is needed to get "clear margins". It will hurt like h3ll and may be disfiguring. Should the doctor tell the patient, " it will all be ok, we will just watch it for awhile and see what happens"? Until it goes metastatic and will now be fatal?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

I never worry about folks running off . They are told the truth.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> I never worry about folks running off . They are told the truth.


Quickly coming out of the cave into the bright sunlight is hard, even painful. Easing out slower, taking a step at a time is tolerable.

Same with coming up from deep underwater.

Same with coming into realizations of adultery about your spouse.

Some are stronger and can take it. Some need to see it slower.

I feel bad for the ones who need it slower, but this is life. Learn to handle pain.


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## EastCoastNative (4 mo ago)

I sincerely hope the OP comes to his senses and leaves. Or even, if he truly does want to reconcile, he at least needs to live the 180 for many many months, even start the process of divorce just to show her how serious he is. Honestly though, if it's anything like my own situation, just starting the divorce process lifts you out of your fog and you realize what a better life you'll have by going through with it. I'm sure he's currently blind to the other troubles they've been having. I wasn't necessarily blind to them, but I didn't realize just how poorly I was being treated until I put one foot out the door, and that new clarity helped me get the other foot out the door too.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

EastCoastNative said:


> I sincerely hope the OP comes to his senses and leaves. Or even, if he truly does want to reconcile, he at least needs to live the 180 for many many months, even start the process of divorce just to show her how serious he is. Honestly though, if it's anything like my own situation, just starting the divorce process lifts you out of your fog and you realize what a better life you'll have by going through with it. I'm sure he's currently blind to the other troubles they've been having. I wasn't necessarily blind to them, but I didn't realize just how poorly I was being treated until I put one foot out the door, and that new clarity helped me get the other foot out the door too.


So true. Once one gets out and looks back, the abuse is clear. Immersed in it, one is just too confused.

I think a great many of these infidelity stories involve more than just the cheating. The betrayed has been abused in many other ways, as well, throughout the relationship. And, it is really important for the betrayed to figure out why he or she tolerated it, and why they did not see the red flags going in.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> That's called 'hysterical bonding.' That happens a lot when infidelity is discovered. I see it as REWARDING a cheater for ****ting all over you but some see it as a couple 'reclaiming' their bond and intimacy. Cheating women have also used this technique to bedazzle a betrayed man because sadly, a lot of them can be swayed simply by good sex. Just a sad truth folks, not being snarky.


From experience, as a male, the hysterical bonding was indeed a reclamation project for me.

In fact, in my case, the HB was a little delayed. My wife tried to initiate sex immediately the first time we were in the same house after DDay, and I refused. And she bawled her eyes out. And that was extremely satsifying.

But days later, the primal desire to reclaim her sexually was intense. For the record, my wife did not have a PA, just an EA. I'm not sure how I'd have reacted if it was a PA. Guessing with disgust.


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## Academictx (7 d ago)

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