# Long sotry, prob familar. Need some support



## unbe

Heres my story....

I have been divorced once already now about to enter into my second. The women I am married to now is the first person I met after my previous divorce. Both have lasted only 2 years (im 36)

When I first met my second wife, things couldn't have been better. I thought I had met my soul mate, she was everything I have ever imagined. We lived together for 2 years prior to getting engaged. These two years were perfect.

We got engaged and things started to get a little strange. I had a feeling that she may have been cheating on me ( I am insecure in nature). I did find some emails back and forth to an old boyfriend that seems harmless enough so I never addressed it.

We got married a year later and that's when the problems started. Almost a 6 months into the marriage she started complaining that I needed to change how I acted. That I wasn't 'nice' When I asked for examples she couldn't give me any. We wouldn't argue about it much but I did hear it often. Now I had asked her if I had changed from when we first met and she said no.

Anyway, moving forward things got progressively worse. She used to be the most affectionate person who would latch onto me like a leach. After about a year of marriage this dissipated to barley touching me at all. I had to initiate all contact. 

She used to want to cook all the time, that stopped. Cleaning stopped. We have a dog toghther, she stopped caring for him.

She travled for work a previously however the trips seemd to pick up at the beginning of this year. The text message went unanswered for hours, same as phone calls.

One night she had got home from a business trip and went to bed as she was exacusted from traveling. I wsnt tired and decided to watch some tv in the other room. Her phone went off with a text from a guy she works with asking "how was the rest of your night". Now the text itself seemd harmless enough but the fact the there was no history behind the message started putting up red flags.

I did some digging and noticed mutilple calls and text message while she was away to this guy (also while I was asleep). Instead of comfronting her about this I decided to start ptrying to see if she wanted out (first mistake). This was in Feburary. We started talking and she said I wasn't the person she thought and wanted out. I asked her to tell me when was needed, how can I fix this. I was in scramble mode to try and make this marriage work. She said she needed time to figure things out so I moved out.

I was out for a week and during this time I was watching to see if she would contact him, which she did. That night we were separated she was with him!!! I tried to convienence myself that maybe she was breaking it off or maybe he really was just a friend.

After the week she asked me to come home and she wanted to work on it. We started marriage consuling

During the consuling she had descrbied how I needed to change, that I didn't like to do the same things she did. She did feel financially secure because we lived a very fly by the moment life (5-6 trips per year, shopping sprees). Mind you these were the exact things she loived about me just a year ago.

So I started to change, I made drastic changes. So drastic to the point the our therapist wanted to write a book about it. I did everything I could to be the man she wanted be to be now. Even though it was against my will.

Things were good for a few months. We had moved out of our place for a few mnths to live near the beach for the summer and had a great few months,

The second we came back to our home things got worse. (We live in the city and she works a few blocks away, with him). My suspensions started up again that she had reconnected with him.

Before you new it we stopped going to therapy (she refused to go as she thought the therapist was on my side). Things went back to the way there were at the beginning of the year.

I comforted her about it two months ago and said I wasn't happy. She said she didn't want to work on it because we are too different and she didn't thinkg therapy would work. I explained that this was a marriage and we need to give it every chance, lets go to another theaprist. She said ok and would research it, that never happened.

Travleing started again, we went on some trips toghther ( I had a business trip she met me on and we had our anniversary so we went away for that). Things were ok, not great.

She had went on a trip for work about a month ago, when she came back all touching stopped. I mean all touching....

She would wait till I went to bed then she went to sleep

All the signs, I couldn't ignore it anymore

I comforted her again saying I wasn't happy but still wanted to work on it. She said now she wanted a divorce, it cant be worked on. I then did confront her about the text/phone calls and she just smirked. 

I said ok, and told her to leave. She has moved out. 

She is supposed to be sending me the paperwork however I haven't recieve it yet. I have not spoken with her since she left.

That brings us to the present. I am angry on so many levels, even typing this makes me angrier. I am also sad that I have another failed marriage. 

I am waiting for her to send paperwork which seems dumb, should I just send her? We don't have kids or own property so its not going to be messy. I think I don't want to send it because I don't want it to be over although I know it needs to end.

I keep going back to the person I met and how I would give anything and do anything to be with that person. I also realize that person is never coming back.

Thank you for reading my long rant....Any feedback/advice is greatly appreciated.


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## Conrad

What was her childhood like?

For that matter, what was ex's childhood like?


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## ReGroup

The person you first met was the imposter.

The person you see now, is the person she truly is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReGroup

Conrad said:


> What was her childhood like?
> 
> For that matter, what was ex's childhood like?


"So I started to change, I made drastic changes. So drastic to the point the our therapist wanted to write a book about it. I did everything I could to be the man she wanted be to be now. Even though it was against my will."

I hate it when I read stuff like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbe

Conrad said:


> What was her childhood like?
> 
> For that matter, what was ex's childhood like?


mother divorced and remarried (on #3)

birth father was abusive, bi polar. not in the picture any longer


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## unbe

ReGroup said:


> "So I started to change, I made drastic changes. So drastic to the point the our therapist wanted to write a book about it. I did everything I could to be the man she wanted be to be now. Even though it was against my will."
> 
> I hate it when I read stuff like this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hated typing it...


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## ReGroup

unbe said:


> I hated typing it...


Good. Never again, for no one. 

Was your first marriage similar to the second one?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbe

ReGroup said:


> Good. Never again, for no one.
> 
> Was your first marriage similar to the second one?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


not at all. first marriage broke apart because of outside family influences.


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## 6301

When you moved out and you saw that she was with the OM, then you should have filed right then and there and been done with it.

The problem is when she's telling you that you need to change this and change that, you should have told her to look in the mirror and start making some changes for herself. Like start acting like a wife. What changes did she make? 

You let her roll over you and take your pride and dignity and did nothing to preserve any of it. 

Get a lawyer and have her served and get her out of your life and move on. You'll be doing yourself a great big favor.


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## Chuck71

dude this is an endless cycle....it will continue to repeat

get a lawyer and GTFO...sooner...the better

leave skid marks in the rose bushes

she wanted you to change but couldn't tell you how

your W has some serious emotional issues from her past

waaaaay before you came along

when I was a kid, I could blow smoke up my pop's a$$

but.....only for a short while, then he called me on it

your W blew that smoke....now you see her without the mask

give this defiant female what she wants

and watch her reaction when it does not 

unfold as she thought it would


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## ThreeStrikes

These stories just keep coming.

Same plots, different actors.

Hang around unbe. You're going to get some great advice. 

Spend some time reading other threads here, by men. You will be able to relate, I think.


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## GotLifeBack

As ThreeStrikes said - Same story.

When I came here I was shocked at the common themes between these stories.

Your story is similar to mine, I'm not out of the woods yet, but it does get easier unbe. Listen to the advice here, it will do wonders for you.

Some good threads to look in to are:

Separated from Wife - Really want her back. - My thread, I've been given some golden advice, some of which (most) will apply to you.

Time to ReGroup and move on - ReGroup's thread.

Honorbound's Journal - Honorbound's thread.

Submitting to the Truth - One of Conrad's threads. Less of a story of separation, more good all-round insight.

Wanted to say thanks to all the folks posting here... - hitbyabrick's thread.

I could sit here and list brilliant threads all day - but start with these, keep updating yours, and soon enough you'll have all the knowledge and advice you need. All you need to bring to the table is the motivation to make it through this and come out of the other side a better man.


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## cbnero

See my post "pushing myself to go through with it" my wife did the exact same thing to me. Shifting blame, moving targets, all the while she was lying and refused to get involved with MC. Meanwhile I have been in IC trying to fix myself for 9 months while she kept complete control.

Get. Out. Now.

Here is the thing. There is nothing wrong with what you did. Do not be ashamed with doing the stuff you did to try and save your marriage. But realize the things you did are for yourself, not for her. it isnt your responsibility to fix her, it never was. If she doesnt value the marriage because her head is in the clouds of fantasy land then that is 100% on her, not you! 

Put the pedal to the metal on the divorce. Now.

Go through the steps - denial, anger, depression, acceptance, etc... and keep working on yourself. Dont backslide from all the work you did.

The person you loved and knew is gone. Period.

She is not your friend. If you just met her today and she told you she was a lying cheating psycho POS but wouls you like to date her, would you say yes? No. So act accordingly and treat her accordingly. Forget her and move on. You deserve better.

You will know you are codependent no more and really bettered yourself if your next relationship is truly with someone different. Otherwise you didnt truly fix yourself yet. Be self aware!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## unbe

cbnero said:


> See my post "pushing myself to go through with it" my wife did the exact same thing to me. Shifting blame, moving targets, all the while she was lying and refused to get involved with MC. Meanwhile I have been in IC trying to fix myself for 9 months while she kept complete control.
> 
> Get. Out. Now.
> 
> Here is the thing. There is nothing wrong with what you did. Do not be ashamed with doing the stuff you did to try and save your marriage. But realize the things you did are for yourself, not for her. it isnt your responsibility to fix her, it never was. If she doesnt value the marriage because her head is in the clouds of fantasy land then that is 100% on her, not you!
> 
> Put the pedal to the metal on the divorce. Now.
> 
> Go through the steps - denial, anger, depression, acceptance, etc... and keep working on yourself. Dont backslide from all the work you did.
> 
> 
> 
> The person you loved and knew is gone. Period.
> 
> She is not your friend. If you just met her today and she told you she was a lying cheating psycho POS but wouls you like to date her, would you say yes? No. So act accordingly and treat her accordingly. Forget her and move on. You deserve better.
> 
> You will know you are codependent no more and really bettered yourself if your next relationship is truly with someone different. Otherwise you didnt truly fix yourself yet. Be self aware!
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Thanks to all for the replies they are truly appreciated and helpful. Everything being said makes sense and is where I ultimately aim to be. 

Update from today:

No contact still since Friday. I'm sure it easy for her as she has OM to fall back on. Honestly it's been easy for me as well. I haven't even had a urge to call or text. 

Reconnected with an old friend who's been really helpful during this time. We care for each other but realize now isn't the right time to act. 

Few things I have been thinking that have pushed me to be angrier:

Found out she saw a lawyer in September. 

She then proceeded to go on 3 trips with me, spend thousands of dollars on new clothes and would have sat back and took Christmas gifts. Who does that???

Something that's irked me, that's all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbe

cbnero said:


> See my post "pushing myself to go through with it" my wife did the exact same thing to me. Shifting blame, moving targets, all the while she was lying and refused to get involved with MC. Meanwhile I have been in IC trying to fix myself for 9 months while she kept complete control.
> 
> Get. Out. Now.
> 
> Here is the thing. There is nothing wrong with what you did. Do not be ashamed with doing the stuff you did to try and save your marriage. But realize the things you did are for yourself, not for her. it isnt your responsibility to fix her, it never was. If she doesnt value the marriage because her head is in the clouds of fantasy land then that is 100% on her, not you!
> 
> Put the pedal to the metal on the divorce. Now.
> 
> Go through the steps - denial, anger, depression, acceptance, etc... and keep working on yourself. Dont backslide from all the work you did.
> 
> 
> 
> The person you loved and knew is gone. Period.
> 
> She is not your friend. If you just met her today and she told you she was a lying cheating psycho POS but wouls you like to date her, would you say yes? No. So act accordingly and treat her accordingly. Forget her and move on. You deserve better.
> 
> You will know you are codependent no more and really bettered yourself if your next relationship is truly with someone different. Otherwise you didnt truly fix yourself yet. Be self aware!
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Thanks to all for the replies they are truly appreciated and helpful. Everything being said makes sense and is where I ultimately aim to be. 

Update from today:

No contact still since Friday. I'm sure it easy for her as she has OM to fall back on. Honestly it's been easy for me as well. I haven't even had a urge to call or text. 

Reconnected with an old friend who's been really helpful during this time. We care for each other but realize now isn't the right time to act. 

Few things I have been thinking that have pushed me to be angrier:

Found out she saw a lawyer in September. 

She then proceeded to go on 3 trips with me, spend thousands of dollars on new clothes and would have sat back and took Christmas gifts. Who does that???

Something that's irked me, that's all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbe

thanks to all for the replies they are truly appreciated and helpful.

Todays update:

No contact still since last Friday. Im sure its easy for her as she has the OM to fall back on. Honestly its been easy for me as well. I haven't had even an urge to call or text.

reconnected with an old friend whos been really helpful during this time. there's something there between us but both realize now is not the time to explore that.


Few things I have been thinking that have pushed me to be angrier:

Found out she saw a lawyer in September. 

She then proceeded to go on 3 trips with me, spend thousands of dollars on new clothes and would have sat back and took Christmas gifts. Who does that???

Something that's irked me, that's all.


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## GotLifeBack

unbe said:


> *reconnected with an old friend whos been really helpful during this time. there's something there between us but both realize now is not the time to explore that.*


Be extremely careful of this - it's extremely likely that you are projecting the feelings for your STBX on to this "old friend" of yours.

Now is not the time to form any emotional ties with anyone of the opposite sex.

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy
Read about Codependency

Get right with yourself, understand yourself. Splitting from a spouse requires a long and arduous journey to better yourself. If you don't you'll be back here before you can say "Another divorce?". I don't know if anyone has pointed out, but at least 50% of the responsibility of the breakdown of your marriage lies with you - you need to find out why, and work to make sure it doesn't happen again. 

Don't look for someone else to fill the blanks of your life - this is a recipe for disaster, and it's a major reason that I am here instead of looking forward to going home and banging my wife tonight.


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## cbnero

Oh thats normal. Mine had me pay for a $600 spa weekend for her and her gf (supposedly) so she could relax and think things thru. Then at least $1000 worth of new clothes over 8 months, not to mention all the nice extra gifts I bought her.

she had no problem taking it all while lying.

Mine was super secretive with her cell phone and pulled it off our joint plan. When I tried putting my foot down and asking for answerd about this OM (she lied about who he was, etc...) and access to her phone records, suddenly I was emotionally abusive. Then she went for a month to an abuse victim counselor. I felt terrible, asked her if I should seek help for this problem of mine, then she said no. ??? If it is so bad shouldnt she have said yes?

Then aftet I filed for D initially she came back and said she couldnt do it to the kids. But then refused to do MC because the counselor was biased to me. Ok so lets go do MC with the counselor you were seeing. Nope! Wouldnt do that either.

There is so much more I could go into. My point is you NEED accept she is a lying POS right now. You love who she was, but that person has been body snatched by the devil. 

Accept it, protect yourself, put up some serious boundaries, and 180 her NOW! File her memory under "never again."

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## GotLifeBack

cbnero said:


> Oh thats normal. Mine had me pay for a $600 spa weekend for her and her gf (supposedly) so she could relax and think things thru. Then at least $1000 worth of new clothes over 8 months, not to mention all the nice extra gifts I bought her.


For me, my STBXW actually maxed out her credit card on a shopping spree of new clothes for both me and her. Of course I had no idea that she was planning on leaving.


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## txrover

Unbe, I can also relate to your story. I am at the end of my 2nd M and will be filing for D very soon. I tried to make my M work after finding out she cheated on me 2 years ago. I worked very hard for 2 years to make it work as she travels a lot for her work and would also get text msgs that made no since. 

I will agree it is hard as to this day I would fix my marriage but all i get from her is "and this is why I just can't see if fixing". So know that you are not alone in this and many of us have very similair situation as yours.


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## cbnero

Hey at least you got something out of her as she spent you dry. Mine just spent it only on herself. 

Also nothing they say or do will make any sense from here on out. That much I promise you. They will ping pong all over the place. If they were a sane person you could apply some logic and figure it out. But at this point crazy is at the helm. They are borderline sociopaths letting emotions dictate every life changing event.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## unbe

First contact has been made by her

She had some logistical questions regarding bills and picking up some packages that were here. 

Do I answer this email? If so how do I respond?

Do I simply right back asking where are the divorce papers?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero

So she said she was going to file divorce? Has she? If she hasnt then you need to and have HER served. Do NOT tell her you are doing this or discuss in advance. You are a man and moving on with your life today.

What are the bill questions she has? And what is she asking for in the home? Did she take a bunch of stuff when she moved out?

The day after my wife moved out with all her clothes, furniture, etc... I sent her a certified letter informing her that my home is now private property since she no longer resides here.. She and anyone else is barred from coming on the property and from removing any of its contents.

Are you on joint checking? I guess I would not reply unless it is in YOUR interest to do so. If she has bill questions it isnt your job to help her figure it out anymore. She should have thought of that hefpre leaving.

AS far as the stuff she is asking for, if its her childhood stuff or something you can set it on the front porch or something. But I wouldnt let her in the home again. Period.

Unfortunately I am a newbie yet to all of this. Maybe Conrad or Regroup will get on here to comment. I may be giving bad advice... they are much more experienced. Sit tight and no contact until more people get on this post.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## unbe

Thanks cbnero

She took everything that was hers. She had some packages delivered which I gave to a mutual friend who was going to see her family this weekend. 

I'll wait to here from some others. I'm leaning towards no response.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Honorbound

Nero is right on the money on this. Unless the bills have to do with you directly (affect your credit, etc.), I wouldn't respond at all. 

Everything else he said is right on the money too. I would no longer let her set foot in the house (I don't with mine either). File for D and have HER served... don't wait around on her to do it. Show her you are a man to be reckoned with.


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## ThreeStrikes

1.) Separate your finances. Close all joint accounts. Cancel all joint credit cards.

2.) Change the locks on your home.

3.) Retain legal counsel. Start the D paperwork.

From what you've told us so far, this should be an easy D. No kids, and only 2 years means no alimony, most likely.

Get it done as quickly as possible to minimize any drama.


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## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> 1.) Separate your finances. Close all joint accounts. Cancel all joint credit cards.
> 
> 2.) Change the locks on your home.
> 
> 3.) Retain legal counsel. Start the D paperwork.
> 
> From what you've told us so far, this should be an easy D. No kids, and only 2 years means no alimony, most likely.
> 
> Get it done as quickly as possible to minimize any drama.


already done with the exception of the paperwork which will be coming in the new year.

what do you mean most likely no alimony. I live in NY, I thought there wasn't alimony in NY. She works full time...


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## manfromlamancha

Has she been sleeping with this other man ? I couldn't tell for sure from your posts ?


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## Honorbound

manfromlamancha said:


> Has she been sleeping with this other man ? I couldn't tell for sure from your posts ?


If she wasn't, she might as well have been. It sure sounded like she was to me - especially the 'smirk' when confronted with it.


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## GotLifeBack

Honorbound said:


> If she wasn't, she might as well have been. It sure sounded like she was to me - especially the 'smirk' when confronted with it.


Agreed - I saw a similar smirk from my STBXW years ago when she had an EA and I confronted her about it. Shortly after that it got physical. Why oh why did I fight so hard to win her back? Live and learn.


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## unbe

the EA was defintatley there....

the cut of from contact to me makes me believe the PA was there as well but I cant confirm it. although in 99.9% sure it was.

not that it matters to be honest.....


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## GotLifeBack

unbe said:


> the EA was defintatley there....
> 
> the cut of from contact to me makes me believe the PA was there as well but I cant confirm it. although in 99.9% sure it was.
> 
> not that it matters to be honest.....


What difference does that 0.01% make?

When you make a decision, if you are more than 50% sure, do you go with it?

99.9% is a lot more than 50%.


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## cbnero

My breaking point was her saying IDLY and moving out. I went to my attorney the next day. Spent as much time needed to get everything filled out and filed. The attorney couldnt reach her process server the following day so I picked up the paperwork and bought lunch for 2 girls that work upstairs in exchange for them going down the street and serving her at work. Got it done asap is my advice. I guess my stbx smiled and said "that was fast."

I havent spoke to her about anything in 2 months. 
What would be the point?

Get your stuff done asap and show her and yourswlf you dont NEED her in your life, and that now you no longer WANT her in your life! 

I have gone straight NC, done the 180 religously. Dont know what or who she is doing, and I dont care. 
I have 9 months of IC under my belt, gone through anxiety, denial, anger, and acceptance. And now I have a date tonight with a nice girl I met on my own that manages a restaurant I happened to stop at two weeks ago during a snowstorm. 

Become self aware and start living for yourself. I already look at this as a footnote in my life. I have no regrets. Yes we all make mistakes. But thats life, your actions are yours to own. Hers are hers. And she is a lying cheating POS.  That is her legacy. Start writing yours today.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## GotLifeBack

cbnero said:


> Become self aware and start living for yourself. I already look at this as a footnote in my life. I have no regrets. Yes we all make mistakes. But thats life, your actions are yours to own. Hers are hers. And she is a lying cheating POS. That is her legacy. Start writing yours today.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


This is so good it's worth quoting just to see it twice.


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## Chuck71

3X said it best.....there are roughly around four patterns

been posting here for a year.....after a few posts

you can notice which pattern emerges

keep in your memory how she has made you feel

she will attempt to slither back in one form or another

you will get great advice here....no fluff, just bare boned


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## ReGroup

Chuck71 said:


> 3X said it best.....there are roughly around four patterns
> 
> been posting here for a year.....after a few posts
> 
> you can notice which pattern emerges
> 
> keep in your memory how she has made you feel
> 
> she will attempt to slither back in one form or another
> 
> you will get great advice here....no fluff, just bare boned


Ain't that the truth Chucky?

OP should beat her to the punch and file himself.

Show her some Masculine Mettle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

unbe said:


> mother divorced and remarried (on #3)
> 
> birth father was abusive, bi polar. not in the picture any longer


unbe,

Have you ever heard the phrase, "Hurt people hurt people?"


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## cbnero

A friend told me to lay down in my bed on my back. Then to take my right hand lift it high in the air. Then to curl my fingers and make a fist. Then to bring that fist down into my groin as hard as possible. 

Yep, those are testicles. 

Good for more than making babies. Use them and send the bum packing. Take back control of this relationship, immediatley. The marriage is done, her choice.

Right now you are riding around on your tricycle trying trying to avoid confronting your own fears, but your wing ding is tied to the back of a semi truck! 

I have been in your shoes. The faster you man up the better for YOU.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Chuck71

people are allowed to do to you, what you allow

me...in this equation....I always wait a bit too long

but I make 110% sure it is over

then they are fair game....no emotion

this January I was so close to just letting everything go

I put my X in a position to show her hand

she did exactly as I anticipated...that was a clear GAME OVER


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## unbe

Update

I responded today to the email yesterday with short non feeling responses. 

Feeling angry, and scared and sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero

Then you are enabling her to keep control. I know it sucks but you need to get over her in order to make a rational decision about what to do with your life moving forward. Answering singals to her that you still care and miss her, and she doesnt desrve to be missed. She knows she still has a hold on you and to people in that mindset its like getting their drug fix. You want her to respect you, you need to start by identifying what true about yourself and solidifying your own identity. Right now you are letting her define who you are. It's not healthy and will keep you miserable.

We let people in our lives be authors in how we view ourselves. Take the books she has written about you and burn them from your mind. Do not give her the right to define ANYTHING about you and watch what happens.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## unbe

Had conflicting feedback about answering so I went with the short curt responses. Items did need to be addressed 

I see your point about control though
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

unbe said:


> Had conflicting feedback about answering so I went with the short curt responses. Items did need to be addressed
> 
> I see your point about control though
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You'll get plenty of chances at this.


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## cbnero

Yes you will. My stbx texted me yesterday inviting me to come over to her new place Christmas morning to open presents with the kids. Xmas day is my custody day and she already agreed to meet me at a gas station to exchange the kids. She wanted to drop the kids off at my house but I said no. She doesnt get to come here anymore.

I deleted her text yesterday after I got it with no reply. I am not fully over her, I am sure she is only inviting to try and establish a new "coparenting" relationship, rug sweeping all the terrible things for which she has no remorse. I feel bad for my kids but I dont feel guilty, and that is the difference. She might view me as selfish and not putting the kids first, but kids are in this position because of her selfish actions. Besides the kids might think we are getting back together. They are only 3 and 6.

I deleted the text with no reply at all for a couple reasons:
1. I cant sit, stare at it all day, and think about it
2. She has no remorse and bought into her own bs. She wouldnt understand or respect my view or me as a person, so why waste the time and effort
3. She has no more control over me. Not responding at all proves this to me and to her.

Others on TAM recommended to me to remove my own emotions before making any decisions. Apply logic, which wayward spouses do not do. It will confuse them more since they cant figure logic out and you arent engaging and enabling for them to get control. Maybe this will help you too.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Yes you will. My stbx texted me yesterday inviting me to come over to her new place Christmas morning to open presents with the kids. Xmas day is my custody day and she already agreed to meet me at a gas station to exchange the kids. She wanted to drop the kids off at my house but I said no. She doesnt get to come here anymore.
> 
> I deleted her text yesterday after I got it with no reply. I am not fully over her, I am sure she is only inviting to try and establish a new "coparenting" relationship, rug sweeping all the terrible things for which she has no remorse. I feel bad for my kids but I dont feel guilty, and that is the difference. She might view me as selfish and not putting the kids first, but kids are in this position because of her selfish actions. Besides the kids might think we are getting back together. They are only 3 and 6.
> 
> I deleted the text with no reply at all for a couple reasons:
> 1. I cant sit, stare at it all day, and think about it
> 2. She has no remorse and bought into her own bs. She wouldnt understand or respect my view or me as a person, so why waste the time and effort
> 3. She has no more control over me. Not responding at all proves this to me and to her.
> 
> Others on TAM recommended to me to remove my own emotions before making any decisions. Apply logic, which wayward spouses do not do. It will confuse them more since they cant figure logic out and you arent engaging and enabling for them to get control. Maybe this will help you too.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


"I'm not ok with playing happy family"


----------



## ne9907

I am so sorry Unbe, you have a right to be sad, afraid, and angry. You are going through a very painful period in your life. You have done the best thing to let go of the marriage. I am sure you have gotten plenty of great advice.
Conrad posted "hurt people hurt people" which is oh so true. I was a true believer that childhood traumas do not affect a marriage or relationships but I was very wrong. 
I am still dealing with the aftermath of my separation, I am still dealing with the pain, hurt, longing, anger, everything.
I have look within myself to see what I did wrong in my marriage.
I am working on becoming a better person because I too made mistakes.
But you know what hurts the most?
the fact that my ex does not see his mistakes, he does not see how he hurt me, he does not believe he needs to look within to become a better person for a future relationship.
As you can probably detect, I am still very codependent on him.
I have let him go, yet I still care about his happiness.

My advice to you is to look within yourself and find out why you took everything she dished out. 
good luck to you
I must go!~ Work calls


----------



## unbe

Update 

Yesterday was rough but I got through it with the help of friends. 

Dreamt about her last night woke up angry that she's still affecting me. 

Day by day....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

update from today:

Rough morning, cant stop thinking about it. Have a pit in my stomach, I have not contacted her however and will not. 

I just want the pain to end. Still no paperwork from her. My co-worker saw her this weekend and dropped of some packages, there isnt any bad mouthing going on which is good.

I am not sure why I am in so much pain. I havent been happy in months, she isnt the same person I first met. Its good to be back at work! The weekends are going to be really rough


----------



## cbnero

Try meditating and setting aside your emotions for 5 minutes. You were happy before her, you will be happy again after her. Go get in IC because you may have codepency issues that need to be addressed. I agree with other TAM posters, recovering from this is a process. Each step is important and you need to do it. Otherwise YOU are only doing this to yourself.

she didnt do anything to you today. I can promise you she isnt thinking about you or your pain. Let go of what you cant control and take control of the things you can. Like your emotions, thoughts, and actions.

She isnt coming back, at least today. And you arent thinking clearly enough to make a good decision even if she did.

Keep your head up bro

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe,

Your relationship with a woman, whether it's a success or not, should not define *you*.

Remove your idealized stbx from her pedestal, and never put another woman on one again. They don't like being there.


----------



## unbe

can someone post the link for no more mr nice guy at first it didnt think it applied but after reading more about it sounds like me to a T


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> can someone post the link for no more mr nice guy


http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


----------



## Chuck71

unbe....way I saw it, during my ordeal last year

IF she wants so bad to be away from me...

if you love them, set them free

it was HARD.....but I did it

next day she returned home

came home straight from work every night

by then....I liked it better when she was gone

things.......have a way of working out 

for what you truly want....

things will get better....I can promise that


----------



## unbe

Today's update

No contact still from either side

Went to talk to my pastor yesterday and she was at the church. Did not see not speak with her. 

I feel a little better today but the holidays are a real downer. Will keep pushing though however.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html


----------



## unbe

Reading that link a few times a day. Definatley helping. 

Just finished zillards thread, wow. Very inspirational. 

Just want to get through the holidays. Then peddle to the metal with the paperwork. 

Feeling sad and angry still. Starting to think about the past and wondering what I'm really missing??

Still dark. We may never speak again. I am wondering why I even care??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

She cheated on you, it seems. You did not act at once and put off the pain. Now it is here, perhaps worse than it would have been. Go run. 

Are you overweight? Smoke?

Filing for divorce before could make you feel better. Nice to dump instead of being dumped.


----------



## ReGroup

LongWalk said:


> She cheated on you, it seems. You did not act at once and put off the pain. Now it is here, perhaps worse than it would have been. Go run.
> 
> Are you overweight? Smoke?
> 
> Filing for divorce before could make you feel better. Nice to dump instead of being dumped.


I agree with LongWalk - get proactive.

If there are things you want to improve in your lifestyle - This is your opportunity.

It keeps the focus on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

Read GutPunch's Journal - it's another good one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

LongWalk said:


> She cheated on you, it seems. You did not act at once and put off the pain. Now it is here, perhaps worse than it would have been. Go run.
> 
> Are you overweight? Smoke?
> 
> Filing for divorce before could make you feel better. Nice to dump instead of being dumped.


I am not overwieght nor a smoker. You say she cheated if seems? Does the evidence prove this fact
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> Read GutPunch's Journal - it's another good one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Link?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> I am not overwieght nor a smoker. You say she cheated if seems? Does the evidence prove this fact
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I read your first post I saw many red flags.

When you read enough first entries they scream out to the veteran reader.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> When I read your first post I saw many red flags.
> 
> When you read enough first entries they scream out to the veteran reader.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Altough it was never admited and likely never to be admitted I feel it's a certainty and fits the patterns of many here. 

Do you have a link to that thread?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/61702-gutpunchs-journal.html

He started his journey 11/12.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Some more thoughts

I always felt she had one foot out the door. Always been walking on eggshells. 

We really have nothing in common, I tried to be a camelion. She never did. 

Sex hasn't been good for a few years. 

Seems that hour by hour, day by day I am getting more and more numb towards this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

You ask what proof there is of cheating. It is circumstanial. However, if you read enough threads about infidelity you will find that your gut was shouting in alarm in response to a pattern that is repeated over and over in relationships as they succumb to infidelity.



unbe said:


> Heres my story....
> 
> I have been divorced once already now about to enter into my second. The women I am married to now is the first person I met after my previous divorce. Both have lasted only 2 years (im 36)
> 
> When I first met my second wife, things couldn't have been better. I thought I had met my soul mate, she was everything I have ever imagined. We lived together for 2 years prior to getting engaged. These two years were perfect.
> 
> We got engaged and things started to get a little strange. I had a feeling that she may have been cheating on me ( I am insecure in nature). I did find some emails back and forth to an old boyfriend that seems harmless enough so I never addressed it.
> 
> We got married a year later and that's when the problems started. Almost a 6 months into the marriage she started complaining that I needed to change how I acted. That I wasn't 'nice' When I asked for examples she couldn't give me any. We wouldn't argue about it much but I did hear it often. Now I had asked her if I had changed from when we first met and she said no.
> 
> Sometimes this is a sign that cheating has started but it could be just a sign that her emotional needs were not being met. Did her discontent have any legitimate basis? That is not easy to determine, not knowing you better.
> 
> Anyway, moving forward things got progressively worse. She used to be the most affectionate person who would latch onto me like a leach. After about a year of marriage this dissipated to barley touching me at all. I had to initiate all contact.
> 
> She used to want to cook all the time, that stopped. Cleaning stopped. We have a dog toghther, she stopped caring for him.
> 
> She travled for work a previously however the trips seemd to pick up at the beginning of this year. The text message went unanswered for hours, same as phone calls.
> 
> One night she had got home from a business trip and went to bed as she was exacusted from traveling. I wsnt tired and decided to watch some tv in the other room. Her phone went off with a text from a guy she works with asking "how was the rest of your night". Now the text itself seemd harmless enough but the fact the there was no history behind the message started putting up red flags.
> 
> The rest of your night (after the great sex we had).
> 
> I did some digging and noticed mutilple calls and text message while she was away to this guy (also while I was asleep).
> 
> No woman in a relationship should have a secret correspondence/telephone hotline to a man other than her husband. Perhaps some women do have male friends from college or high school, but the communication with them is always open.
> 
> Instead of comfronting her about this I decided to start ptrying to see if she wanted out (first mistake). This was in Feburary. We started talking and she said I wasn't the person she thought and wanted out. I asked her to tell me when was needed, how can I fix this. I was in scramble mode to try and make this marriage work. She said she needed time to figure things out so I moved out.
> 
> I was out for a week and during this time I was watching to see if she would contact him, which she did. That night we were separated she was with him!!! I tried to convienence myself that maybe she was breaking it off or maybe he really was just a friend.
> 
> How do you know they were together?If they were togther they probably had sex. It was very bad for you to move out and enable her to have sex with him unimpeded. She surely lost even more respect for you.
> 
> After the week she asked me to come home and she wanted to work on it. We started marriage consuling
> 
> The fact you could not read her mind and know about the relationship with her friend probably heightened ther feeling that you did not know her inner soul. Had you, you would have confronted her. Instead she atttacked you to further justify her exit.
> 
> During the consuling she had descrbied how I needed to change, that I didn't like to do the same things she did. She did feel financially secure because we lived a very fly by the moment life (5-6 trips per year, shopping sprees). Mind you these were the exact things she loived about me just a year ago.
> 
> So I started to change, I made drastic changes. So drastic to the point the our therapist wanted to write a book about it. I did everything I could to be the man she wanted be to be now. Even though it was against my will.
> 
> Things were good for a few months. We had moved out of our place for a few mnths to live near the beach for the summer and had a great few months,
> 
> The second we came back to our home things got worse. (We live in the city and she works a few blocks away, with him). My suspensions started up again that she had reconnected with him.
> 
> Before you new it we stopped going to therapy (she refused to go as she thought the therapist was on my side). Things went back to the way there were at the beginning of the year.
> 
> Lying to you was easy. Lying to the therapist was harder.
> 
> I comforted her about it two months ago and said I wasn't happy. She said she didn't want to work on it because we are too different and she didn't thinkg therapy would work.
> 
> Different in what way? Values, life goals? Education? How about she wanted to pursue OM and you were in the way?
> 
> I explained that this was a marriage and we need to give it every chance, lets go to another theaprist. She said ok and would research it, that never happened.
> 
> Travleing started again, we went on some trips toghther ( I had a business trip she met me on and we had our anniversary so we went away for that). Things were ok, not great.
> 
> She had went on a trip for work about a month ago, when she came back all touching stopped. I mean all touching....
> 
> This happens when a woman has checked out and/or does not want to be unfaithful to her lover.
> 
> She would wait till I went to bed then she went to sleep
> 
> All the signs, I couldn't ignore it anymore
> 
> I comforted her again saying I wasn't happy but still wanted to work on it. She said now she wanted a divorce, it cant be worked on. I then did confront her about the text/phone calls and she just smirked.
> 
> She was embarrassed but not impressed that you never had the courage to confront her earlier.
> 
> I said ok, and told her to leave. She has moved out.
> 
> She is supposed to be sending me the paperwork however I haven't recieve it yet. I have not spoken with her since she left.
> 
> That brings us to the present. I am angry on so many levels, even typing this makes me angrier. I am also sad that I have another failed marriage.
> 
> You escaped being married to a cheater who did not respect you. You have won. Don't repeat this in your next relationship.
> 
> I am waiting for her to send paperwork which seems dumb, should I just send her? We don't have kids or own property so its not going to be messy. I think I don't want to send it because I don't want it to be over although I know it needs to end.
> 
> I keep going back to the person I met and how I would give anything and do anything to be with that person. I also realize that person is never coming back.
> 
> Thank you for reading my long rant....Any feedback/advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Altough it was never admited and likely never to be admitted I feel it's a certainty and fits the patterns of many here.
> 
> Do you have a link to that thread?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think Conrad mentioned ways to find out

keylogger, VAR under her seat, who pays the cell bill??

Unbe..... Zill and I started our journal a year ago

both of us saw the wife who walked out as a death blow

in the sense of abandonment

Zill knew his cheated, I never did...but it did not matter

there are certain lines one can not cross with me

and expect me to welcome them back

mine was actually over in Nov '12

although I was not able to admit it until Jan '13

one step at a time....


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> I think Conrad mentioned ways to find out
> 
> keylogger, VAR under her seat, who pays the cell bill??
> 
> Unbe..... Zill and I started our journal a year ago
> 
> both of us saw the wife who walked out as a death blow
> 
> in the sense of abandonment
> 
> Zill knew his cheated, I never did...but it did not matter
> 
> there are certain lines one can not cross with me
> 
> and expect me to welcome them back
> 
> mine was actually over in Nov '12
> 
> although I was not able to admit it until Jan '13
> 
> one step at a time....



unfortunately its a little to late for all of this. she has already moved out, we have different cell bills and I have no access to the vehicle. I honestly dont need this has the gut feeling in my stomach along with the circumstantial eviendence prior (saw over 200 texts on the bill, over hour long phone calls while i was asleep or she was away, lieing about whos number it was, leing about where she was the night of our first separation) is enough for me!

Chuck, I feel the same abandonment and although I don't have concrete proof, I do know for sure that she 100% will bail when things get tough. That along with above is quickly becoming enough for me to never allow her back into my life again.

I want a fighter, not a quitter!


----------



## unbe

todays update:

every day that passes it gets a little better, i still think about her (the old her) but I am quickly reminded of the new her (the real her) and the things that I really dont want back. 

If she called me today would I take her back, maybe....but not without some serious changes/work/admissions.

I do sense that the maybe is going to turn into a NO soon enough...


----------



## Chuck71

if you can not trust her, you will never love her again

consider yourself lucky she is gone

LOL mine stayed at the house until D was final

I left

and I got the house

the cell was for you to clear your conscience 

but if you have already set it in your mind

it would be pointless

12/11/12 was my low point

6/11/13 playing air guitar on deck with new gal

I look forward to reading your growth as spring nears


----------



## unbe

ok quick question.

I have not recieved any paprwrok from stbxw nor to I except to see any (even through aparentely thats all she wants...)

Do I?

A) File with what I expect to happen and have her served?
B) Contact her and attempt to work hammer out this detail then just have a lawyer draw up the paperwork?


----------



## unbe

Ok just received an email. do i respond?

They charged us cancellation fees for your phone and air card when you switched your carrier. I paid the overdue balance last month so they wouldn’t shut off my phone but I can’t afford to pay this and it’s due by Jan 7th. What do you want to do?

Im thinking no response, time to start handling her own business!


----------



## unbe

thinking about this has a response...

What do I want to do?

I can tell you what I dont/didnt want to do...

1) Get divorced
2) Be cheated on
3) Have to pay $XXX a month for a dog walker because my soon to be X wife for some reason allowed me to sign a lease on an apartment she had no intentions on living in
4) Pay for your dress, makeup, flights, hotel just so you can ruin my sisters wedding
5) Pay $XXXX for an apartment ( half of the responsibility which is yours) all by myself

You fired me....you figure it out! Maybe ask POSOM for help



Where is the divorce paperwork? Whats the delay?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> Im thinking no response, time to start handling her own business!


This.


----------



## cbnero

100% ZERO REPLY. Get divorce filed on your own. ZERO discussion with her. Have her served. Cut her off like a limb that is trapped under a boulder. It wont be easy, will be painful, but you will be free.

Do not talk to her. Even if/when she starts saying what you want to hear. You need to fix yourself first before you can make good decisions. And she needs to completely break before you can trust her. And maybe you never can again. Just remember: ignore what she says. Watch what she DOES.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> 100% ZERO REPLY. Get divorce filed on your own. ZERO discussion with her. Have her served. Cut her off like a limb that is trapped under a boulder. It wont be easy, will be painful, but you will be free.
> 
> Do not talk to her. Even if/when she starts saying what you want to hear. You need to fix yourself first before you can make good decisions. And she needs to completely break before you can trust her. And maybe you never can again. Just remember: ignore what she says. Watch what she DOES.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


message recvd loud and clear...


----------



## GutPunch

Please get the book codependent more. Your thread reeks of it. You will never have a healthy relationship until this is fixed.

PS...you cancelling your phone is a normal reaction to your circumstances. The fallout from her choices is on her.

GP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

any talking to her will simply

go in one ear, out the other

get D papers served

you will hear plenty from her then

and view her....without the mask


----------



## unbe

todays update:

feeling good, confident. Starting to detach. I will not go back and forth through email for nonsense. Full steam ahead

Ordered a bunch of self help books, looking forward to them coming and me starting to work on me!


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> todays update:
> 
> feeling good, confident. Starting to detach. I will not go back and forth through email for nonsense. Full steam ahead
> 
> Ordered a bunch of self help books, looking forward to them coming and me starting to work on me!


unbe, are you in counseling?


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> unbe, are you in counseling?


i have been speaking to my pastor. i was in MC but havent seen someone since. I cant afford it right now


----------



## cbnero

I would try to find a way to afford it or see if health ins might cover any of it.

Codependent no more is a great book in the meantime. I am going through similar deal, but have had 9 months of IC plus TAM to help. Identity work is key, you need to start by writing down what is true about yourself. We let people author how we view ourselves. Make a list of the authors in your life and how you think they view you. Compare it to list of things YOU know are true about yourself. 

Take that things that arent true from some authors (mainly your stbx) and burn them from existence in your mind. Those things are not true, and therefore you shouldnt let them author how you feel about yourself. 

Garbage in, garbage out, as they say.

Start by respecting and standing up for yourself. The sooner the better. Good luck, will pray for you. Its a hard road.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

I was able to find a ic in my plan. Starting on Thursday. 

I ordered that book along with a few others. Should be here soon

Excited to start this recovery/improvement
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I was able to find a ic in my plan. Starting on Thursday.
> 
> I ordered that book along with a few others. Should be here soon
> 
> Excited to start this recovery/improvement
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bravo… the first step into a larger world.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Yesterday was good not great. Stbxw still had a key to the apartment and emailed me a few weeks ago about it. 

I had asked her to mail them to me and of course she didn't listen. Decided to drop them off to our front desk in the building. 

Just another sign of disrespect. 

I want to blast her for it. Instead I will continue to stay dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Stay no contact. Remember this has nothing to do with you, these people are only thinking of themselves, therefore they arent trying to be disrespectful. Its just in their nature to not care right now. Dont let it get to you, I am sure she will do worse going forward.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## the guy

See how the distance between your old lady is helping you and then when some crap about the key happens your back to square one with emotion.

So continue to stay dark and avoid the emotional torture.

Get a lawyer ASAP and finish this!

I suggest you ask your lawyer if you can name the OM in the D papers.Look up "allenation of affection" in your state.


----------



## unbe

the guy said:


> See how the distance between your old lady is helping you and then when some crap about the key happens your back to square one with emotion.
> 
> So continue to stay dark and avoid the emotional torture.
> 
> Get a lawyer ASAP and finish this!
> 
> I suggest you ask your lawyer if you can name the OM in the D papers.Look up "allenation of affection" in your state.


I looked this up, unfortunately its a no go where I am.

Meeting with my lawyer next week to start this. The limbo could be a good reason why I cant seem to move on. I really want to though.....


----------



## cbnero

Your story is similar to mine, and others here unfortunately. I started making a list each day of the things that were "real" that I wanted to do and it helped remove the enotional clutter. That way I was always moving forward through the pain even if I didnt feel like it. 

1. I can only change myself
2. My wife is toxic and does not care, respect, or think about me. She must be removed like a cancer.
3. I need this marriage to be over to move on. What can I do to progress this today? What things still need to be done for this to happen?
4. I will not get angry with her, or show any emotion to her at all since doing so will only enable her.
5. I will allow myself to think about this but only during certain times and for a set duration. Otherwise I will force myself to do or think about something else.
6. I am now single and have only myself and kids to worry about. Stbx is not my problem.
7. I will do things and live on my schedule. I am in control of my decisions and actions.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

the more distance which is put between you and her

the more you will see the light

at first you almost have to force yourself

but once you see the brightness

you can't stop wakling towards it


----------



## unbe

todays update:

with NYE looming I feel like this couldn't come at a better time. Its kind of forcing closuer into the past and hopes for a happier furture,

Had an interesting dream last night, both of my X's were morphed into one person for some reason and I was in the apartment breaking everything that reminded me of stbxw. I woke up sad for some reason, seems like the wrong emotion to that type of dream.

Anyway, excited to start IC on Thursday. I do have a date tonight which I an cautiously optimistic about. No expectations just want to enjoy the company of a happy person. Its been over a year since ive been around someone who genuinely wants to be around me and isn't just around me due to obligation.

Got two of the 6 books I ordered delivered today. No more mr and Awarness by demello. Think Ill start Awarness first.

Starting to see the light, its very dim and far but I do see it flickering......


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> todays update:
> 
> with NYE looming I feel like this couldn't come at a better time. Its kind of forcing closuer into the past and hopes for a happier furture,
> 
> *Think positive. Others will notice it. Small steps.*
> 
> Had an interesting dream last night, both of my X's were morphed into one person
> 
> *I had a dream this spring. I saw my high school crush, college crush and my X at a sports card convention. I stopped collecting cards and picked up drinking!  *
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to see the light, its very dim and far but I do see it flickering......


*Have a good time tonight! No expectations. First gal I went out with after D was filed, had no true intentions with. Reason we went out. Find yourself again......when you do...the girl will seek YOU out. Happy New Year and happy reading*


----------



## GutPunch

Start with the other book. Awareness is pretty deep.


----------



## unbe

Already read awareness. Going to have to read it again. 

Rcvd co dependent no more and started that. Wow I have a lot of traits associated with this

Still NC from stbxw nor myself to her. Going to my lawyer next week to start the paperwork. I am very annoyed that I had to initate this as she was the one who was dyeing for this to happen. 

Can't wait for IC to tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Already read awareness. Going to have to read it again.
> 
> Rcvd co dependent no more and started that. Wow I have a lot of traits associated with this
> 
> Still NC from stbxw nor myself to her. Going to my lawyer next week to start the paperwork. I am very annoyed that I had to initate this as she was the one who was dyeing for this to happen.
> 
> Can't wait for IC to tomorrow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Time to lead.

Do it unapologetically.


----------



## unbe

spoke to my lawyer today and he advsied stbxw reached out for previous tax returns last week (we always filed seperatley)

he told me to hold off for a week or so. am i fittin to go to war here?


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> spoke to my lawyer today and he advsied stbxw reached out for previous tax returns last week (we always filed seperatley)
> 
> he told me to hold off for a week or so. am i fittin to go to war here?


Is he still her lawyer?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Is he still her lawyer?


she hired her own lawyer....


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> she hired her own lawyer....


Get your own - and fire this guy.


----------



## unbe

Todays update:

I seem to be waking up every morning sad and angry then as the day goes on im fine. I think it has to do with waking up in the apartment that we shared.

I am trying to get out of this lease however it is going to be very difficult. 

Triggers are everywhere. How do you guys/gals manage to deal with them?


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Todays update:
> 
> I seem to be waking up every morning sad and angry then as the day goes on im fine. I think it has to do with waking up in the apartment that we shared.
> 
> I am trying to get out of this lease however it is going to be very difficult.
> 
> Triggers are everywhere. How do you guys/gals manage to deal with them?


Stay @50k and observe them.

Then decide whether you wish to indulge them.


----------



## unbe

Today's update:

So far so good. Had first IC last night and it seemed to go well. He feels he can certainly help me which I am excited about. 

I'm about half way through co dependent no more and it's a eye opener to say the least. I hope I can apply some of the principles to myself going forward. 

I am having difficulty getting to 50k. I'd say I'm about 10 feet right now. Any advice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

So I heard some interesting news today. Apparently my lovely stbxw is bashing me and blaming the entire thing on me. Saying I kicked her out and claming no responsibility what so ever. 

Now normally this wouldn't matter but unfortunately this may affect my job. 

I need some advice her fellas. I want to nip this in the bud
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> So I heard some interesting news today. Apparently my lovely stbxw is bashing me and blaming the entire thing on me. Saying I kicked her out and claming no responsibility what so ever.
> 
> Now normally this wouldn't matter but unfortunately this may affect my job.
> 
> I need some advice her fellas. I want to nip this in the bud
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Typical behavior.

She wants to gain sympathy from anyone who's willing to listen. 

The blame has to go somewhere and it can't/won't be her. 
- it happened to me and I fell for it. I spent months in my own fog. Don't believe a word of it.

She's creating a smoke screen for whatever she's hiding.

You have to drive this home while she's in this state of craziness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Agreed. Strike fast, strike hard. Own your decisions, opposite of her. I am right there with you. Know this, she does not care about you. At all. She cares only for herself. It has nothing to do with you. Most likely you wont ever get answers or an apology. And that is ok. What good are the words from a liar? They are worthless. I know it is hard, scary, and filled with hurt and pain. But that is life. She isnt going to fix herself, you will. And then you will meet someone great. Trust me. It gets easier.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> So I heard some interesting news today. Apparently my lovely stbxw is bashing me and blaming the entire thing on me. Saying I kicked her out and claming no responsibility what so ever.
> 
> Now normally this wouldn't matter but unfortunately this may affect my job.
> 
> I need some advice her fellas. I want to nip this in the bud
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


anyone can talk the talk

only the few walk the walk

listen to what she does

NOT what she says

95% what comes out her mouth is garbage

she is in the washing machine of drama

and wants you to join her

make work aware of her delusions


----------



## cbnero

I would ignore the blame game she is playing. Let her say it. People will ignore her, and the ones that dont do you really care?

my stbx told everyone that I wad abusive and that I was cheating, when this what she was doing to me. You cant fight that crap so just ignore it. When you start living well people will realize she was lying. Trust me. Its already happening to me.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

cbnero said:


> I would ignore the blame game she is playing. Let her say it. People will ignore her, and the ones that dont do you really care?
> 
> my stbx told everyone that I wad abusive and that I was cheating, when this what she was doing to me. You cant fight that crap so just ignore it. When you start living well people will realize she was lying. Trust me. Its already happening to me.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


translated to..................The Victim Chair

where they spew out lies

so many times

they start believing the lies themselves


----------



## unbe

All valid points. Had this been restricted to just her friends and whatnot then id have no issue. 

My only concern is this spreading throughout my employer and affecting that end. 

Should I address it head on it or continue to go NC and sit back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

say nothing

if they believe everything they hear

they are imbeciles

if they have any nads, they would ASK

you about these "allegations"


----------



## cbnero

Yes do not engage. She thinks she can still push your buttons, but you have now revoked that power from her.

I had someone ask me about alleged emotional abuse and I just started laughing and asked if they really believed it. When they said no and asked why she would do that, I just said that someone having an affair with a married man will say just about anything to keep the spotlight off themselves and justify their own actions.

Dont let it bother you for even a millisecond. 
You hold all the cards. Act like it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

Update

No word from team delusional. Making an appt to see lawyer on Thursday to get this going. 

The women I have been speaking about was getting a little to clingy and I had to push her back which wasn't pretty. Unfortunately I can't worry about other people right now 

Time for me to be selfish. I haven't been selfish in quite some time, feels good. 

Just finished reading no more me nice guy... It did have some useful insight. I liked awareness better. 

Have a few more to get into but i think I'll take a few days off before starting the next one. 

Other than reading and IC I haven't really done much else for myself. Having a hard time coming up with hobbies and time/energy to do these hobbies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

any female with integrity would allow you space

during this time and trial by fire

it's a hint.....and it will escalate with time

great call! focus on you


----------



## unbe

It's like clock work. Everything I saw no contact I get contact. 

Just got this text message. 

I will meet you to discuss whatever you want, at any time, but please leave my mom out of this. (I haven't involved her ) 

I haven't contacted anyone in your family and I would appreciate it if you'd do the same. 

You know how your department is I'm sure anything you are hearing is a product of internal gossip. ( it's coming from here friends not my department) 

I'm not saying anything about you, XXX

I wouldn't do that to your career, and believe it would be a poor reflection of character on my behalf (character? Lol). 

I don't have any animosity toward you but we're very different and it just didn't work out. Those are the facts and what someone would hear if they asked me what happened (lie)

If you hear otherwise you can know it was fabricated. There are other things I need to talk to you about but you haven't been responsive so I would be more than happy to talk to you about this (and everything else) whenever you want. 

This is crazy....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

Watch what she does, NOT what she says


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Watch what she does, NOT what she says


Assuming we stay NC?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Even though you 100% dont, act like you are happy and dont give a shyt. Dont ever let her see otherwise.

Confident, happy. That is all you should convey if you do habe contact. But otherwise stay NC definitely.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> It's like clock work. Everything I saw no contact I get contact.
> 
> Just got this text message.
> 
> I will meet you to discuss whatever you want, at any time, but please leave my mom out of this. (I haven't involved her )
> 
> I haven't contacted anyone in your family and I would appreciate it if you'd do the same.
> 
> You know how your department is I'm sure anything you are hearing is a product of internal gossip. ( it's coming from here friends not my department)
> 
> I'm not saying anything about you, XXX
> 
> I wouldn't do that to your career, and believe it would be a poor reflection of character on my behalf (character? Lol).
> 
> I don't have any animosity toward you but we're very different and it just didn't work out. Those are the facts and what someone would hear if they asked me what happened (lie)
> 
> If you hear otherwise you can know it was fabricated. There are other things I need to talk to you about but you haven't been responsive so I would be more than happy to talk to you about this (and everything else) whenever you want.
> 
> This is crazy....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There's always the option of exposing her affair to her family and at her workplace.

That should get things moving.


----------



## unbe

Damn it. I responded but immediately regret it

"It's not coming from my department. I'm not ok with your continued lying"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Update:

There was no response to my text message from yesterday. Not sure I was expecting one either. I have to stop getting so emotional every time I hear/see something from team delusional.

I need to get to 50k....having a hard time getting off the ground


----------



## GotLifeBack

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> There was no response to my text message from yesterday. Not sure I was expecting one either. I have to stop getting so emotional every time I hear/see something from team delusional.
> 
> I need to get to 50k....having a hard time getting off the ground


Getting to 50k is a habit. 

Everytime you are making a decision based upon emotion, step back, and observe logically. It sounds simple enough, but it really isn't. Once the habit is formed however, everything is much clearer.


----------



## GutPunch

unbe said:


> It's like clock work. Everything I saw no contact I get contact.
> 
> Just got this text message.
> 
> I will meet you to discuss whatever you want, at any time, but please leave my mom out of this. (I haven't involved her )
> 
> I haven't contacted anyone in your family and I would appreciate it if you'd do the same.
> 
> You know how your department is I'm sure anything you are hearing is a product of internal gossip. ( it's coming from here friends not my department)
> 
> I'm not saying anything about you, XXX
> 
> I wouldn't do that to your career, and believe it would be a poor reflection of character on my behalf (character? Lol).
> 
> I don't have any animosity toward you but we're very different and it just didn't work out. Those are the facts and what someone would hear if they asked me what happened (lie)
> 
> If you hear otherwise you can know it was fabricated. There are other things I need to talk to you about but you haven't been responsive so I would be more than happy to talk to you about this (and everything else) whenever you want.
> 
> This is crazy....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is trying to manipulate you. She really does not want this to be exposed to her work or her mom. All the more reason to expose her.


----------



## Tron

GutPunch said:


> She is trying to manipulate you. She really does not want this to be exposed to her work or her mom. All the more reason to expose her.


:iagree:


----------



## unbe

isn't it a concern to anyone that if i expose her and she gets fired then i would have to pay? is that not a real concern?

should i wait until after the papers have been signed? divorce is final?


----------



## Chuck71

what type of job does she have?


----------



## unbe

I don't want to get into to much detail however if certain people found out she would for sure lose her job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> isn't it a concern to anyone that if i expose her and she gets fired then i would have to pay? is that not a real concern?
> 
> should i wait until after the papers have been signed? divorce is final?


Have to pay what, exactly?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Have to pay what, exactly?


alimony being that she wouldn't be working anymore?


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> alimony being that she wouldn't be working anymore?


2 years married - and both on 2nd marriages?

I'm dead certain you don't have to worry about alimony - and the infidelity will seal that for certain, even in a no-fault state.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> alimony being that she wouldn't be working anymore?


Dude...your better get some legal counsel. Alimony after only 2 years? Highly unlikely.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Dude...your better get some legal counsel. Alimony after only 2 years? Highly unlikely.


i know she wouldn't be entitled to it now. im saying if i were to expose the affair and she got fired would i be responsible then? I guess this a question for my lawyer


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> 2 years married - and both on 2nd marriages?
> 
> I'm dead certain you don't have to worry about alimony - and the infidelity will seal that for certain, even in a no-fault state.


im on my second, shes on her first

the only proof is text records and phone calls. not sure that would be enough to 'prove' anything


----------



## GutPunch

I smell a codependent. Prove me wrong. You are making excuses to protect her. For what?


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> im on my second, shes on her first
> 
> the only proof is text records and phone calls. not sure that would be enough to 'prove' anything


Have you spoken to posOMW?


----------



## unbe

GutPunch said:


> I smell a codependent. Prove me wrong. You are making excuses to protect her. For what?


cant prove you wrong...100% accurate. However in this instance I am truly looking out for myself. I have already outed to her mother. I am concerned about legally ramifications however by exposing to work.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Have you spoken to posOMW?


hes not married....


----------



## GutPunch

unbe said:


> cant prove you wrong...100% accurate. However in this instance I am truly looking out for myself. I have already outed to her mother. I am concerned about legally ramifications however by exposing to work.


Legal ramifications? I didn't say go blow up her work with dynamite. You are just making her employment aware of the truth. Get mad....unbe. You should be.


----------



## ICLH

I just talked to a lawyer about alimony in my situation. We were married for 1.5 years - together for 5. My STBXH said he was entitled to alimony. I'm in California and my lawyer said because the duration of the marriage was so short (if he did go after alimony) he wouldn't get very much and not for very long. Don't worry about the alimony. If she gets fired and isn't working she won't have much money for a lawyer to go after alimony anyway. If you wanted to expose her there are ways you can do that without directly doing it.


----------



## unbe

ICLH said:


> I just talked to a lawyer about alimony in my situation. We were married for 1.5 years - together for 5. My STBXH said he was entitled to alimony. I'm in California and my lawyer said because the duration of the marriage was so short (if he did go after alimony) he wouldn't get very much and not for very long. Don't worry about the alimony. If she gets fired and isn't working she won't have much money for a lawyer to go after alimony anyway. If you wanted to expose her there are ways you can do that without directly doing it.


PM me some ideas....would love to hear them


----------



## Chuck71

Alimony is set up for SAHMs with four kids

who give up their career to care for children

and where the H rakes in mega-bucks

I'm gathering you 1-do not make mega-bucks

2-have no children

3-M shorter than some of Rolling Stones parties

your stbx is chit out of luck

she would not get squat in Utah, much less your state


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> PM me some ideas....would love to hear them


Conrad is an expert......let him advise


----------



## unbe

Update from today

The mention on her name makes me upset. I keep hearing trickle pieces of trivial information and it sets me back. 

I haven't been in any sort of contact since the text on Sunday. 

IC tomorrow, pick up another book. Push forward....keep pushing forward
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Update from today
> 
> The mention on her name makes me upset. I keep hearing trickle pieces of trivial information and it sets me back.
> 
> I haven't been in any sort of contact since the text on Sunday.
> 
> IC tomorrow, pick up another book. Push forward....keep pushing forward
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Expose


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Expose


Can you pm me some ideas as discussed in the thread. Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Update from today

Had IC, he doesn't say much. Just listens to me vent which is what I need right now. 

I seem to be very angry at the stbx, angry that she cheated, angry that she didn't care enough to try and work on this, angry that she blamed it all on me. 

Made an appt for Monday with the lawyer. I honestly don't think I can ever face her again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Update from today
> 
> Had IC, he doesn't say much. Just listens to me vent which is what I need right now.
> 
> [I*]An IC should challenge you. Sounds like you have a co-pay collector. I recommend searching for another*[/I]
> 
> I seem to be very angry at the stbx, angry that she cheated, angry that she didn't care enough to try and work on this, angry that she blamed it all on me.
> 
> *I thought I was reading my thread from a year ago. Never knew if my X cheated or not. Did not matter when she wanted out. Joining four dating sites had a bit to do with me not wanting anything to do with her, as well lol*


----------



## unbe

Help me write this letter....so far I have

All,

As you know STBXW and I's marriage is coming to an end. I have no doubt that you have heard the reason for this marriage ending is all my fault. Where I do take responsibility for my demise in the marriage (co dependecy issues, etc...) I can assure you stbxw is not without fault. Attached you will find phone records from when stbxw was in xxx on a business retreat. Within these records you a can see a total of 143 text message between herself and a number whom I have confirmed to be a co-worker POSOM. Many text messages were sent during hours where it is clear business is not a topic of discussion. I have many other phone bills with calls that went on for hours in the middle of the night along with thousands of text messages for months and months.

When I confronted stbxw about this number she told me it was XXX which was a clear lie in an attempt to cover up this 'affair'

When we first separated on that Sunday night in April. stbxw did visit POSOM at his house and stayed until 3:00am.

I realize it takes two to break up a marriage. I may have not been there for STBXW they was she needed me emotionally however that does not give her or anyone a right to go outside the marriage. I attempt therapy with STBXW where she was not an active participant what so ever.

You will take this information and do what you wish. I have been hearing rumors that I kicked STBXW out, I didnt want this to work, It is all my fault. I can assure you I changed everything and anything about me to make this work. The night of 12/12 I begged STBXW to try and separate and 'start over'. She immediately responded NO and that she wanted a divorce. That is when I asked her to leave.

This is what I have so far...comments?


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Help me write this letter....so far I have
> 
> All,
> 
> As you know STBXW and I's marriage is coming to an end. I have no doubt that you have heard the reason for this marriage ending is all my fault. Where I do take responsibility for my demise in the marriage (co dependecy issues, etc...) I can assure you stbxw is not without fault. Attached you will find phone records from when stbxw was in xxx on a business retreat. Within these records you a can see a total of 143 text message between herself and a number whom I have confirmed to be a co-worker POSOM. Many text messages were sent during hours where it is clear business is not a topic of discussion. I have many other phone bills with calls that went on for hours in the middle of the night along with thousands of text messages for months and months.
> 
> When I confronted stbxw about this number she told me it was XXX which was a clear lie in an attempt to cover up this 'affair'
> 
> When we first separated on that Sunday night in April. stbxw did visit POSOM at his house and stayed until 3:00am.
> 
> I realize it takes two to break up a marriage. I may have not been there for STBXW they was she needed me emotionally however that does not give her or anyone a right to go outside the marriage. I attempt therapy with STBXW where she was not an active participant what so ever.
> 
> You will take this information and do what you wish. I have been hearing rumors that I kicked STBXW out, I didnt want this to work, It is all my fault. I can assure you I changed everything and anything about me to make this work. The night of 12/12 I begged STBXW to try and separate and 'start over'. She immediately responded NO and that she wanted a divorce. That is when I asked her to leave.
> 
> This is what I have so far...comments?


Talking too much.

************************

All,

As you know STBXW and I's marriage is coming to an end.

Attached you will find phone records from when stbxw was in xxx on a business retreat. These records include 143 text messages between herself and co-worker POSOM.

When I confronted stbxw about this number she told me it was someone else. Clear patterns of deception are evident in the thousands of texts, hours of late-night phone calls, and her unexplained absences.

Best regards,

Unbe


----------



## cbnero

Why are we exposing to her work? Is POSOM married or have a gf? I am not opposed to it, but people will believe what they want regardless of what you say. 

Is this going to stbx whole company or just HR? I dont mean to question the wisdom of more exp people here, but I am having trouble seeing what if anything is accomplished by this.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Why are we exposing to her work? Is POSOM married or have a gf? I am not opposed to it, but people will believe what they want regardless of what you say.
> 
> Is this going to stbx whole company or just HR? I dont mean to question the wisdom of more exp people here, but I am having trouble seeing what if anything is accomplished by this.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


i was planning on sending it to anyone at her work I can get a hold of. Along with friends and family. If I am going down the wrong path here please let me know.


----------



## tom67

cbnero said:


> Why are we exposing to her work? Is POSOM married or have a gf? I am not opposed to it, but people will believe what they want regardless of what you say.
> 
> Is this going to stbx whole company or just HR? I dont mean to question the wisdom of more exp people here, but I am having trouble seeing what if anything is accomplished by this.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Expose to close friends and family.

Just have her served at work.


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Why are we exposing to her work? Is POSOM married or have a gf? I am not opposed to it, but people will believe what they want regardless of what you say.
> 
> Is this going to stbx whole company or just HR? I dont mean to question the wisdom of more exp people here, but I am having trouble seeing what if anything is accomplished by this.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Of all people, I'm surprised to hear this from you.


----------



## unbe

is the consensus to leave work out of it?


----------



## Conrad

unbe,

You have nothing to lose by blowing it up at work.

What you have to gain is her respect.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> is the consensus to leave work out of it?


f' her

f' her work

f' her work friends

get the picture????


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> unbe,
> 
> You have nothing to lose by blowing it up at work.
> 
> What you have to gain is her respect.


Should I wait until after the paperwork has been signed for the separation? I believe in my state I need to be separated legally for a year prior to submitting the divorce.


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> Should I wait until after the paperwork has been signed for the separation? I believe in my state I need to be separated legally for a year prior to submitting the divorce.


Press the button.


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> Press the button.


there isn't any potential fall out from this?


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> there isn't any potential fall out from this?


Yes.

You're going to become the man that you were supposed to become.

And no - I am not exaggerating.


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> Yes.
> 
> You're going to become the man that you were supposed to become.
> 
> And no - I am not exaggerating.


can you clear some of your messages trying to send you a PM


----------



## Conrad

Are you sick and tired of tiptoeing around trying not to make her mad while she took that opportunity to lose respect for you - to the point of banging someone else?


----------



## Chuck71

see my blog 12-11-12

this is meant to pi$$ her off

50k dude, watch n learn

it is for YOU, f; her


----------



## unbe

oh i could care less about pissing her off, dont get me wrong.

i am more concerned with any fallback in regards to pushing forward with the separation or potential law suit issues.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> oh i could care less about pissing her off, dont get me wrong.
> 
> i am more concerned with any fallback in regards to pushing forward with the separation or potential law suit issues.


No one can sue you for defamation if they actually did it.


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> can you clear some of your messages trying to send you a PM


Try sending it now.


----------



## cbnero

Sorry I didnt know who this was letter was being sent to. I am not against it. We are the ones who dont act on emotion (including anger). Making sure that he arrives at the reasons himself, the same as I did. Otherwise he is acting on the groups marching orders vs his own. He needs to bust through the fear of her, I do agree with you there. But I didnt act until I came to my own understanding.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> Should I wait until after the paperwork has been signed for the separation? *I believe* in my state I need to be separated legally for a year prior to submitting the divorce.


What do you mean "I believe"?

Brother, haven't you talked to a lawyer?

Educate yourself on the D laws in your state. Become an expert.


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Sorry I didnt know who this was letter was being sent to. I am not against it. We are the ones who dont act on emotion (including anger). Making sure that he arrives at the reasons himself, the same as I did. Otherwise he is acting on the groups marching orders vs his own. He needs to bust through the fear of her, I do agree with you there. But I didnt act until I came to my own understanding.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Amen


----------



## cbnero

Unbe for me it was finding my own identity and truth about myself. The good and the bad. And accepting them with the realization I do not need to be perfect. With that understanding came the knowledge that I am responsible for MY actions. In no way am I, or you, responsible for the actions of someone else. 

Choices have consequences. Now here you are, faced with choices because of her actions. She cares nothing for you, your marriage, your family. You are an unwilling participant. Your new life starts over today. Right now. Either by action or inaction you are going to define your own identity. 

What are you willing to live with? What regrets will you choose? You are the star of a "choose your own ending" book. Think carefully about who you are, what standards you hold yourself to, and what standard of treatment you are willing to accept from others in this new life. 

Then act accordingly. No choice is wrong, and therefore no choice is right either. Listen to others but decide for yourself and not because of any judgement passed on you. Because you are in charge of your own future and who you are and will become from this day forward. Embrace the fear of change and conquer it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Unbe for me it was finding my own identity and truth about myself. The good and the bad. And accepting them with the realization I do not need to be perfect. With that understanding came the knowledge that I am responsible for MY actions. In no way am I, or you, responsible for the actions of someone else.
> 
> Choices have consequences. Now here you are, faced with choices because of her actions. She cares nothing for you, your marriage, your family. You are an unwilling participant. Your new life starts over today. Right now. Either by action or inaction you are going to define your own identity.
> 
> What are you willing to live with? What regrets will you choose? You are the star of a "choose your own ending" book. Think carefully about who you are, what standards you hold yourself to, and what standard of treatment you are willing to accept from others in this new life.
> 
> Then act accordingly. No choice is wrong, and therefore no choice is right either. Listen to others but decide for yourself and not because of any judgement passed on you. Because you are in charge of your own future and who you are and will become from this day forward. Embrace the fear of change and conquer it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Dang, you sound like a veteran.

It is his life.

But, there is a true satisfaction in standing up for yourself.

And, you never know what happens when you start doing it.

Right now, posOM and his wife are grinning ear to ear, thinking there has been no consequence to their betrayal of unbe.

They've taken his measure.

I'm pretty certain he's going to prove them wrong.


----------



## cbnero

You were right about me, when you said before that I might find myself, and maybe for the first time in my life. 

Hopefully he takes himself as serious as he should. Because he is a person of serious value. And when he starts believing in himself again, he will find strength in himself he never knew existed. Then every choice and action from that day will become stronger in the belief that he is a man held firm in his own ideals and values. Others will see a dramatic change in him, but that is only because he held himself back before. And the person he becomes will be a man to be respected and feared. And one day he will wake up like I did and realize he is free. 

Look out world. Another giant is on the horizon.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> You were right about me, when you said before that I might find myself, and maybe for the first time in my life.
> 
> Hopefully he takes himself as serious as he should. Because he is a person of serious value. And when he starts believing in himself again, he will find strength in himself he never knew existed. Then every choice and action from that day will become stronger in the belief that he is a man held firm in his own ideals and values. Others will see a dramatic change in him, but that is only because he held himself back before. And the person he becomes will be a man to be respected and feared. And one day he will wake up like I did and realize he is free.
> 
> Look out world. Another giant is on the horizon.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


The world smiles back, doesn't it?

I was so in my head before I broke out, I never even noticed how the world was responding.


----------



## cbnero

Me neither.  And I think the change is much more obvious to others. To me it feels like a new normal. But to others who know us I think it's scares them to see such a level of calm confidence rooted in firm identity. It sucks I wasnt able to learn this on my own without having my family ripped apart. But luckily the guilt for that is not on my shoulders! 

Unbe is about to break free too. I think he knows it, sees it, and is about to stand up and embrace it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ICLH

Conrad said:


> Talking too much.
> 
> ************************
> 
> All,
> 
> As you know STBXW and I's marriage is coming to an end.
> 
> Attached you will find phone records from when stbxw was in xxx on a business retreat. These records include 143 text messages between herself and co-worker POSOM.
> 
> When I confronted stbxw about this number she told me it was someone else. Clear patterns of deception are evident in the thousands of texts, hours of late-night phone calls, and her unexplained absences.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Unbe


I agree with, Conrad. Shorten up the letter and expose her. What do you have to lose?


----------



## ReGroup

"I'm not ok with acting like a loving husband while you're entertaining another man."

I said that on page 19 of my thread. It was never the same ever again.

It became too self empowering to stop. 

I was never a push over, until my daughter was born. It then changed. I became someone I wasn't: to keep the peace.

unbe, needs to show strength at this time.

It might not save your marriage but it will enhance your self worth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

ReGroup said:


> "I'm not ok with acting like a loving husband while you're entertaining another man."
> 
> I said that on page 19 of my thread. It was never the same ever again.
> 
> It became too self empowering to stop.
> 
> I was never a push over, until my daughter was born. It then changed. I became someone I wasn't: to keep the peace.
> 
> unbe, needs to show strength at this time.
> 
> It might not save your marriage but it will enhance your self worth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Group,

Be honest, 

It was to keep the "piece"

They're linked.


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Me neither. And I think the change is much more obvious to others. To me it feels like a new normal. But to others who know us I think it's scares them to see such a level of calm confidence rooted in firm identity. It sucks I wasnt able to learn this on my own without having my family ripped apart. But luckily the guilt for that is not on my shoulders!
> 
> Unbe is about to break free too. I think he knows it, sees it, and is about to stand up and embrace it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


As long as those of us who have are here to support him and testify as to what life is on the other side.

He'll have a glimpse of what life looks like on the other side.

Claim it unbe.


----------



## ReGroup

Conrad said:


> Group,
> 
> Be honest,
> 
> It was to keep the "piece"
> 
> They're linked.


Lol. Degraciao!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Ok I'm getting ready to do this. Let me ask you guys, do I copy stbx and posom?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Why not, who gives a crap? I would post the emails in the bcc so no one knows who else got the email though. Who are you sending this to again?

Post the final email here before sending. Stick only to the facts. No emotion. Short and to the point.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## cbnero

And FYI after I exposed to OMW and started telling others the truth, you know what my wife said to me? Not a word. What is she going to say? It isnt true? 

I didnt expose to her work but if I could do it over and had email addressses I would have. I am glad I did what I could to shine the light on her bs.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

I'm sending this too basically whoevers email I can get a hold of. So far, immediate family, close friends. Co workers, CFO of her company, Cao, owner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

final draft?

All,

As many of you know stbx and I's marriage is coming to an end. I have no doubt that you have heard the reason for this marriage ending is all my fault. Where I do take responsibility for my demise in the marriage (co dependecy issues, etc...) I can assure you stbx is not without fault. Attached you will find phone records from when stbx was in xxx during a work retreat. Within these records you a can see a total of 143 text message between herself and a number whom I have confirmed to be a co-worker posom.

When I confronted stbx about this number she told me it was someone else. Clear patterns of deception are evident in the thousands of texts, hours of late-night phone calls, and her unexplained absences.

When we first separated on that Sunday night in April. stbx did visit posom at his house and stayed until 3:00am.

You will take this information and formulate your own judgements.


----------



## Chuck71

Conrad said:


> The world smiles back, doesn't it?
> 
> I was so in my head before I broke out, I never even noticed how the world was responding.


thought I was on TAM, my error

but I do enjoy the Matrix


----------



## cbnero

I will read the draft tonight and let you know what I think

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

Update

I have had rough couple of days. I reached out to stbx in moment of weakness and got crushed. 

I feel very alone. She told me she left because I was mean and condescending. Perhaps I was but I don't see how that gives someone the right to have an EA. 

I'm sure that's just the excuse she's using but it really hit me hard. 

These set backs are brutal. 

I am worried I won't meet anyone. I am worried that I can't be in a successful marriage. 

I am worried I'm going to end up alone fore ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pictureless

unbe said:


> I am worried I won't meet anyone. I am worried that I can't be in a successful marriage.
> 
> I am worried I'm going to end up alone fore ever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do not worry about tomorrow, there's enough to worry about today. The birds find food to eat every day. Aren't you stronger and smarter than a bird? Does worrying add time to your life and make you live longer? If you were with your wife right now, wouldn't you still be alone? You might be with her, but emotionally she's gone so you would be alone. You're better off being away from the one who has created all these problems.

You are not going through this alone. I'm going through it too. The end result is the same: she don't want me, and I can't change that. Can't wait for the divorce to be finalized so all of this nonsense will stop and I can start the next chapter.

Be patient. It gets better. Think. Common sense and reflection can be revealing. If she loved you, you wouldn't be where you are now. 

I have no idea how it will turn out for either of us. But I know this: in my case it was the best gift she ever gave me. Thank the Lord it happened now and not 10 years from now. 

I can't even guarantee that either of us will ever know about that fabled moment when the offending spouse realizes they've made a colossal mistake. They may not ever have it. And if they do, it won't matter by then if we know about it. Because we know now.

But we won't have any problems finding new women. Since we're older and wiser, we'll be able to enjoy our freedom more as we choose a new partner with discretion.


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> Update
> 
> I have had rough couple of days. I reached out to stbx in moment of weakness and got crushed.
> 
> I feel very alone. She told me she left because I was mean and condescending. Perhaps I was but I don't see how that gives someone the right to have an EA.
> 
> I'm sure that's just the excuse she's using but it really hit me hard.
> 
> These set backs are brutal.
> 
> I am worried I won't meet anyone. I am worried that I can't be in a successful marriage.
> 
> I am worried I'm going to end up alone fore ever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Reinforce No Contact.

It will prevent additional emotional abuse.

She must blame you in order to carry out what she is doing. It's how they rationalize it.

Calling, pleading, lowering your defenses, being needy is unattractive. The 180 remains true to you and helps you heal.

"I'll never meet someone"? Come on.

1. You will not meet a healthy woman in your current state of mind. So lets put that one to the side for a bit.
2. Your focus is in the wrong place right now. Go back and read up on the 180.
3. Dust yourself up and get up.

I still have violent emotional swings and if there is one person I won't reach out to it's HER.

Never let them see you sweat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

The contact I made was an attempt to start a R prior to filing. It was a poor attempt I see now and not one that I should be making.

I know by her response that she doesn't love me. No one who loves someone would talk like that to them and show 0 remorse. 

My question is, how do I accept this? How do I accept that the same person who showed the most amount of love I have ever seen now seemingly hates me and literally nothing about 'me' changed from the day we met?


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> .
> My question is, how do I accept this? How do I accept that the same person who showed the most amount of love I have ever seen now seemingly hates me and literally nothing about 'me' changed from the day we met?


You don't have much of a choice but to accept it.

She's not the same person she once was.

You didn't change - she did. It has nothing to do with you.

You are asking the wrong questions.

What you should be asking is: Why do I care about this person? What in me allows myself to go back to this form of abuse?

GutPunch suggested some books - Have you started reading them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> You don't have much of a choice but to accept it.
> 
> She's not the same person she once was.
> 
> You didn't change - she did. It has nothing to do with you.
> 
> You are asking the wrong questions.
> 
> What you should be asking is: Why do I care about this person? What in me allows myself to go back to this form of abuse?
> 
> GutPunch suggested some books - Have you started reading them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I care about here because when we first met, she made me feel invisible. Like I could take on anything. She was the warmest person I ever met. I have never felt so loved before in my life.

She then proceeded to be the coldest person I have ever met.

I have read NMMNG, Co dependent no more and Awareness.

Any other suggestions for books?


----------



## helolover

ReGroup said:


> Reinforce No Contact.
> 
> It will prevent additional emotional abuse.
> 
> She must blame you in order to carry out what she is doing. It's how they rationalize it.
> 
> Calling, pleading, lowering your defenses, being needy is unattractive. The 180 remains true to you and helps you heal.
> 
> "I'll never meet someone"? Come on.
> 
> 1. You will not meet a healthy woman in your current state of mind. So lets put that one to the side for a bit.
> 2. Your focus is in the wrong place right now. Go back and read up on the 180.
> 3. Dust yourself up and get up.
> 
> I still have violent emotional swings and if there is one person I won't reach out to it's HER.
> 
> Never let them see you sweat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This!!!!


----------



## helolover

unbe said:


> I care about here because when we first met, she made me feel invisible. Like I could take on anything. She was the warmest person I ever met. I have never felt so loved before in my life.
> 
> She then proceeded to be the coldest person I have ever met.
> 
> I have read NMMNG, Co dependent no more and Awareness.
> 
> Any other suggestions for books?


The 10 Stupidest Mistakes Men Make When Facing Divorce: And How to Avoid Them: Joseph Cordell: 9780307589804: Amazon.com: Books

Amazon.com: The Journey from Abandonment to Healing: Turn the End of a Relationship into the Beginning of a New Life eBook: Susan Anderson: Books


Amazon.com: The Rational Male eBook: Rollo Tomassi: Kindle Store


----------



## 6301

unbe said:


> . These set backs are brutal.
> 
> I am worried I won't meet anyone. I am worried that I can't be in a successful marriage.
> 
> I am worried I'm going to end up alone fore ever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Right now the last thing you should be worried about is the next relationship when your not out of the one your in.

Your putting the cart before the horse. Get out of the relationship your in now, and after that happens, take a step back and give yourself a chance to breath and heal before you set out to find another woman. 

Going from one relationship and jumping in to another without a break doesn't give you any chance to get squared away. You have enough on your plate now. Deal with what you have and after is through, then you'll be a lot more clearer in your mind and be able to move on. One step at a time friend.


----------



## Pictureless

unbe said:


> I care about here because when we first met, she made me feel invisible. Like I could take on anything. She was the warmest person I ever met. I have never felt so loved before in my life.


How does she make you feel right now? Why be in love with a person who makes you feel like that? Forgive and move on.



unbe said:


> She then proceeded to be the coldest person I have ever met.


Mine too. You know why? Because they are done with us. 



unbe said:


> Any other suggestions for books?


How about the Bible? Plenty of good stuff to learn in there. Love, forgiveness, how to behave in relationships, how to have victory over rejection. It's in there! I've learned and you can too. There is someone who loves you so much that he was willing to die for your sins. If that isn't love, I don't know what is.


----------



## unbe

so during my moment of weakness and after her inital response I had then asked for an opportunity to meet in person so that I can articulate what I was trying to say better. (she had claimed my email wasnt very clear).

I received a response late last night (about 30 hours after I sent my email) saying she would be willing to meet this week. 

Why is it I get this feeling that this may be a very bad idea? However I also get this feeling that if I dont go, I will never let myself live it down..


----------



## GutPunch

unbe said:


> Why is it I get this feeling that this may be a very bad idea?


Because it is a bad idea. 

Stick to the 180.


----------



## Chuck71

it is a horrible idea

in your current state, best to avoid face to face

either re-send email in more simple terms or

do not re-send at all

you are going through a grieving process

completely normal

at 50k you will see her actions clear

ReGroups thread is full of QL trying to bait him in

you are simply giving your stbx exactly what she wants

and view her reaction when it does not turn out

the way she planned....it rarely does


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> it is a horrible idea
> 
> in your current state, best to avoid face to face
> 
> either re-send email in more simple terms or
> 
> do not re-send at all
> 
> you are going through a grieving process
> 
> completely normal
> 
> at 50k you will see her actions clear
> 
> ReGroups thread is full of QL trying to bait him in
> 
> you are simply giving your stbx exactly what she wants
> 
> and view her reaction when it does not turn out
> 
> the way she planned....it rarely does


Chuck, can you check your PM's?


----------



## unbe

The emails that have been gone back and forth are as follows: I am so confused....

STBX,

Over the past month I have done some serious soul searching. I have been going to counseling, reading books about co-dependency, personality disorders and numerous self help books. I am doing things to better myself for ME. I realize that the changes I made previously I did for you and they would never stick unless I was all in. This is the reason why in haven't contacted you. I needed time to start to work on me and identify myself without distraction.

I do realize why you seeked out attention from someone else, to fill a void that I wasn't giving you. Although I am not ok with it I do understand why it
happened.

Look, I understand we are different, we have been different for a very long time. There are things we can do to come to a common ground on our differences and find things we can enjoy together but we both need to be willing to work on it. I am telling you today, I am. Honestly, a month ago I did not know how to do this. Today I am telling you, I have a better understanding of what this entails.

I am not suggesting we move back in. I am suggesting that we should at least give this the chance it deserves. We didn't really do that over the past 6 months.

We both gave up a lot to be together 6 years ago. I remember the feeling we had for each other back then, when I went to Houston and the joy i saw in your face the moment we met in the airport. Then the sorrow you had when I left. Those feelings where real, I believe those feelings are still there.

Before we go down this road of no return, don't you feel that we owe it to ourselves to try and give this a real effort?

I have an appointment with the laywer on Monday. Before I go through with this I want to suggest the following.

I suggest we give this 3 months. You continue to live by yourself as well as me. We start therapy and go as often as needed. We will both research to find a therapist we feel comfortable with. If we have to go to a few before we find someone we are comfortable with, so be it. During this time, we will cut off contact to anyone who is 'bad' for the marriage. This includes any outside influence who isn't positively supporting us. We truly invest
all of our energy to see if this is worth saving. I believe its absolutely is. If after this time we don't see progress, we walk away with no regrets knowing it just wasn't meant to be. If we do see progress then we extend for another period of time, we can discuss it at that time.

Also, we talk to each other as we feel comfortable. See each other as we feel comfortable. Ease back into this part. Try and start to re-establish mutual respect and trust. Take this slowly

If you feel that there are other concessions I am leaving out please suggest them. If you would rather talk about this face to face, we can do that as well.

This past month as been very eye opening for me. I lost someone who is very important to me, someone who I haven't given what she deserved (although I didn't see that until I started looking into me). I am still the same guy who would do anything to protect you from pain. Now, I feel like I am the guy who will do anything to be your partner, not your 'husband' in the archaic sense of the word.

You haven't filed yet, there has to be a reason for this?

We have a tough road ahead, I know it is easier to run away than to fight. It is not in me to run, I am a fighter but I can not do this alone. I need your help. Fight with me, fight for us, fight for the happiness we are so very close to. I can see it...I can see past this speed bump. Are you willing to see it also???

I love you. I have since the day we met.

She then responded with this:

OP,

It wasn't easy to respond to this email, which seems to be riddled in double entendres. I am sure you can imagine that after your text last week I was very surprised to read this.

I am not sure if this email was intended to woo me back but it came across as yet another ultimatum, laden with yet more of your false accusations that I have been succumbing to since you first decided I did not respond to my text messages quickly enough.

You have to understand that I was tired of being sad. I was tired of being with someone who was mean and condescending. I tried to tell you I deserved to be treated better but you told me my standards were "too high". I'm sorry, but I don't think so. I know I deserve better, even if that means being alone. I left you for myself, and no one else. The quicker you realize that, the quicker you will find peace.

I'm glad you are seeking help for yourself and wish you nothing but happiness in life.

STBX

My Response:

STBX,

I'm sorry you took my email as an ultimatum. I was concerned sending this communication through email and had drafted and re drafted it for days. It wasn't my intention at all for this to come across as an ultimatum.

You had mentioned you would be willing to see me and talk to me about anything. Perhaps I can better articulate this in person. I am coming to you at this time with an open mind and heart, no other way.

Would you be willing to meet me?

Her response:

Sure, that offer still stands and always will.

I have a conference this week but can meet you for coffee on Wednesday or Thursday*after work.*


Guys, why I am all over the place?


----------



## Chuck71

Do not mention again. If she inquires about it, ignore it. Your situation is somewhat similar to mine. Did she actually bring up these accusations? Or did she expect you to read her mind? 

When you send something as this, to her it shows you as being weak. You must go NC and work on yourself. No matter if you ignored her sometimes or drank (or read books, etc) this was NOT 100% your fault. She wants you to think it is, to mask her own guilt. She is re-writing history to make her look pristine and you a sack of chit.

Talk less, do more.....work on yourself

no need to try and win her back

let's say you did

would you trust her?

when she notices your new attitude,

she will be attracted to you

what happens then.....is up to you

but right now she is broken

and only she can fix it

if she seeks a R, trust me, she WILL let you know


----------



## Chuck71

in your state it takes one year separation to file D

file for separation, show her you mean business

after you file, watch what she does, not what she says

be stronger and recapture your life

trust me, she will take notice


----------



## Tron

Sorry Unbe, but Chuck nailed it.


----------



## ReGroup

WTF Man.


----------



## GutPunch

ReGroup said:


> WTF Man.


Smartest post yet. 

No more emails, OK.


----------



## Chuck71

My 1st love and I parted ways in 1990....I begged and pleaded her to stay

she did not, I got on with my life,found a new gal and had a blast

about time I started really liking her, guess who came storming back?

My 2nd love and I parted ways in 1993....I begged and pleaded her to stay

she did not, I got on with my life,found a new gal and had a blast

about time I started really liking her, guess who came storming back?

My X and I parted ways in 2012....I begged and pleaded her to stay

she did not, I got on with my life,found a new gal and had a blast

about time I started really liking her, guess who came storming back?

The difference is.....I got back with 1st and 2nd...neither were ever the same

the 1st ended in January 1991, 2nd December 1996

I wasted so much time thinking "it is better the second time"

my X.....I never looked back....she was broken long before I met her

her mother and I protected her. her mother died and I held her accountable

much more than she did....

when she sees your strength, she will be impressed

what I will say is, day will come she will wish to return

what YOU have to do is be past where you are now 

and be clear headed, strong. When she returns, you will ask

yourself, "What is in this for me?"


----------



## ThreeStrikes

What happened to the exposure email?

Did you ever send it?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Do not mention again. If she inquires about it, ignore it. Your situation is somewhat similar to mine. Did she actually bring up these accusations? Or did she expect you to read her mind?
> 
> She did in the past mention how I was mean and how we were different. I tried to be as nice as possible and do things that she liked, obviously It wasn't enough.
> 
> When you send something as this, to her it shows you as being weak. You must go NC and work on yourself. No matter if you ignored her sometimes or drank (or read books, etc) this was NOT 100% your fault. She wants you to think it is, to mask her own guilt. She is re-writing history to make her look pristine and you a sack of chit.
> 
> Talk less, do more.....work on yourself
> 
> no need to try and win her back
> 
> let's say you did
> 
> would you trust her?
> 
> If she agreed to therapy and i saw progress. At some point I could. Without that, no b
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> What happened to the exposure email?
> 
> Did you ever send it?



I went with this one instead. Smart move right lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> WTF Man.


I'm so messed up in my head right now I am only thinking on emotion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Get back to 50K.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I'm so messed up in my head right now I am only thinking on emotion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ALL of us were where you are now

it is something none of us want to repeat

as long as you are in this state

180 and NC, 50k it is best for YOU

you are vulnerable right now, stay away from her

she knows you are at a weak position

get the focus OFF her and ON you

there will be a tomorrow for you

a brighter and exciting one


----------



## GutPunch

Here's a golf lesson. 

Too be successful you must forget about your last shot and focus entirely on the next one.


----------



## Chuck71

GutPunch said:


> Here's a golf lesson.
> 
> Too be successful you must forget about your last shot and focus entirely on the next one.


Wow! GP goes Tom Arnold!

wait....Arnold Palmer


----------



## Chuck71

Chuck71 said:


> ALL of us were where you are now
> 
> it is something none of us want to repeat
> 
> as long as you are in this state
> 
> 180 and NC, 50k it is best for YOU
> 
> you are vulnerable right now, stay away from her
> 
> she knows you are at a weak position
> 
> get the focus OFF her and ON you
> 
> there will be a tomorrow for you
> 
> a brighter and exciting one



unbe....the two who liked this, Group n GP

they along with Zillard, all four of us hit TAM

at the same time....January 13 we all four 

were still confused....uncertain

one by one, we all came out better

hang in there......we're here for ya


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> unbe....the two who liked this, Group n GP
> 
> they along with Zillard, all four of us hit TAM
> 
> at the same time....January 13 we all four
> 
> were still confused....uncertain
> 
> one by one, we all came out better
> 
> hang in there......we're here for ya


Thanks boys. I hear you and my brain agrees. My heart is just ripping my brain out of my skull and trying to destroy it. 

I keep doubting myself about the posom that maybe it wasn't what I thought. Assuming it wasn't does that path still remain that same?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Her last message to you was crock full of pity. She was not attracted to the long needy we-need-to-fight-for-us letter. If you ignore her that is action, i.e, you are not begging to be with her. If you file for divorce, it may actually shock her into reconsidering her position.

The best thing you can do is stick to the 180/no contact.

Go to the gym and work out. Post pictures of yourself looking happy and successful on Fakebook. People believe it. I have a picture of 15 or 16 half naked women crowded round, hugging me. It makes me look like a very desirable guy. But it was a PR photo opportunity rather than some deep friendship.

My ex is not big on FB but if she looked at the picture, it would make her think.


----------



## GutPunch

unbe said:


> Thanks boys. I hear you and my brain agrees. My heart is just ripping my brain out of my skull and trying to destroy it.
> 
> I keep doubting myself about the posom that maybe it wasn't what I thought. Assuming it wasn't does that path still remain that same?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why the doubts?

Either way she has checked out. 

Stay the course.


----------



## Chuck71

From what you told me, definite EA, very possible PA

when will you stop making excuses in her defense

you have said many times you think it went PA

Honestly, I think you are 98% sure you know the answer

her mother is on marriage #3, her father was bi polar

she had issues on multiple levels, long before she met you

as Group said, the woman you met, was an imposter


----------



## cbnero

Unbe you are doing this to yourself. She is done and gone. Worry about your own mental health first, it isnt your job to fix her or anyone else.

No contact means no contact my friend. She doesn't love you, she definitely isn't your friend. Quit treating her like one she is a cheating pos. That is her legacy. Treat her accordingly.

Why would you want her back then? You deserve better and until you stand up and respect yourself first you will continue to subject yourself to me abuse, heartbreak, and brain dmg.

I know what you are feeling but you need to get to 50k and start making different decisions.

F her!!!!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ReGroup

unbe, 

When you get right yourself you are going to look back at those emails and laugh.

"What was I thinking?"

I read 3 lines of it and I cringed. It triggered me. 

I wrote something like that in 10/12. I'm going to go into my gmail archives, look mine up and laugh at myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## helolover

unbe, these guys are giving you solid advice. I also pitifully mucked around in the hope game looking for the sparkly unicorn of possible reconciliation with my broken WAW.

The results:

I wasted time.
I got nowhere.
I allowed myself to be used.
I allowed myself to be crushed (time and time again).
I allowed myself to be humiliated.
I allowed myself to get hurt.

Any of that sound familiar?

I highly recommend you keep NC. Do not chase Unicorns. This situation is happening to you. You didn't want this. We all understand this as none of us did. We are here, though. We all have been where you are. Many of us have come a long way by letting go of crazy and started taking care of ourselves. It's time for you to get on board, my friend.

here to support.

HL


----------



## unbe

helolover said:


> unbe, these guys are giving you solid advice. I also pitifully mucked around in the hope game looking for the sparkly unicorn of possible reconciliation with my broken WAW.
> 
> The results:
> 
> I wasted time.
> I got nowhere.
> I allowed myself to be used.
> I allowed myself to be crushed (time and time again).
> I allowed myself to be humiliated.
> I allowed myself to get hurt.
> 
> Any of that sound familiar?
> 
> I highly recommend you keep NC. Do not chase Unicorns. This situation is happening to you. You didn't want this. We all understand this as none of us did. We are here, though. We all have been where you are. Many of us have come a long way by letting go of crazy and started taking care of ourselves. It's time for you to get on board, my friend.
> 
> here to support.
> 
> HL



gents all makes sense...i met with my pastor yesterday (the one who married us) and he was word for word saying what you guys are. I think that snapped me back into reality!

Hearing it from him is a real eye opener. I have made an appt with my lawyer for 1/22 and its time to push this through. I am going NC and 180 again ( I was doing so good up until last week...)

I can feel a little tingling down there...i think they may be growing back :smthumbup:


----------



## Chuck71

:smthumbup:

have an imported beer from Congo

glad you are back to reality

focus.....learn.....incorporate learned material

midterms are two weeks after filing


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Thanks boys. I hear you and my brain agrees. My heart is just ripping my brain out of my skull and trying to destroy it.
> 
> I keep doubting myself about the posom that maybe it wasn't what I thought. Assuming it wasn't does that path still remain that same?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes.

For a reconciliation to take place, SHE has to suggest it.

Remember, if it's not her idea, it's no good.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Yes.
> 
> For a reconciliation to take place, SHE has to suggest it.
> 
> Remember, if it's not her idea, it's no good.


I knew this to be true in my mind. My heart won a battle that day.

My brain will win the war!


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I knew this to be true in my mind. My heart won a battle that day.
> 
> My brain will win the war!


Here's a bit more brain food.

Think back on the man you were when you first attracted her.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Here's a bit more brain food.
> 
> Think back on the man you were when you first attracted her.


I remember that guy, fun, funny, ****y, didn't care what others thought. Very even keeled (she always said that was my best quality for her coming from a home where things were very chaotic) Very easy to get along with.

Spontaneous (although that is the same today)
Witty humor (which was great for her back then but is now conceived as mean)


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I remember that guy, fun, funny, ****y, didn't care what others thought. Very even keeled (she always said that was my best quality for her coming from a home where things were very chaotic) Very easy to get along with.
> 
> Spontaneous (although that is the same today)
> Witty humor (which was great for her back then but is now conceived as mean)


Doesn't that witty humor have an edge to it now?


----------



## unbe

Next few days aren't going to be easy. Supposed to meet her after a month of not seeing her once and instead I'm going NC. 

Going to need your help staying on point!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> Next few days aren't going to be easy. Supposed to meet her after a month of not seeing her once and instead I'm going NC.
> 
> Going to need your help staying on point!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think you are ready. I say cancel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

ReGroup said:


> I don't think you are ready. I say cancel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Will increase her desire to see you - and make you more mysterious.


----------



## helolover

Text her and say your plans have changed and you have to cancel. Do not explain yourself, do not apologize for canceling.


----------



## unbe

Any ideas on what that message should say?

How about 

Can't make it this week, sorry
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Also wouldn't this be breaking the NC rule?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

helolover said:


> Text her and say your plans have changed and you have to cancel. Do not explain yourself, do not apologize for canceling.


This is what you should do.

Short and sweet.


----------



## GotLifeBack

"Something came up, I can't make tomorrow."

"Something came up" makes her think you have other plans that you don't wish to elaborate on.

"I can't make tomorrow" - No apologies, no ambiguity.


----------



## cbnero

Follow the advice on here. Exposure is beyond your capability right now. You need to start over from scratch.

180 and No Contact!

REMEMBER THIS: you will not respond to anything no matter what she says or writes. If it is about kids then you can reply but if there is more than 3 words in your reply you need to stop and post on TAM before sending. I am serious. 

If possible NEVER reply. View NOT REPLYING as winning! Every non response is a point scored. 

She will do everything possible to engage you. You will be so angry sometimes. 

DO NOT SHOW IT.
DO NOT ACT ON IT.
NEVER APOLOGIZE TO HER AGAIN FOR ANYTHING.
NEVER EXPLAIN YOURSELF TO HER AGAIN.
REMOVE SORRY FROM YIUR VOCABULARY.

Believe me you will be tested. Right now you fold like a cheap suit. 

Read these posts and reread. You dont need more counseling from pastor or anyone. You already have all the answers you need here. And dont spend any extra seconds at attorney office, they will bill the hell out of you. On point no chatting or anything and why cant you get the Financial Disclosure Forms today and get filling them out.

if your house was on fire do you wait a week to call the fire dept? Good Lord grow a pair Sir. You can do this.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

unbe......trust in yourself more

you already know the answers

but validation always makes it a secured trust


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> Follow the advice on here. Exposure is beyond your capability right now. You need to start over from scratch.
> 
> 180 and No Contact!
> 
> REMEMBER THIS: you will not respond to anything no matter what she says or writes. If it is about kids then you can reply but if there is more than 3 words in your reply you need to stop and post on TAM before sending. I am serious.
> 
> If possible NEVER reply. View NOT REPLYING as winning! Every non response is a point scored.
> 
> She will do everything possible to engage you. You will be so angry sometimes.
> 
> DO NOT SHOW IT.
> DO NOT ACT ON IT.
> NEVER APOLOGIZE TO HER AGAIN FOR ANYTHING.
> NEVER EXPLAIN YOURSELF TO HER AGAIN.
> REMOVE SORRY FROM YIUR VOCABULARY.
> 
> Believe me you will be tested. Right now you fold like a cheap suit.
> 
> Read these posts and reread. You dont need more counseling from pastor or anyone. You already have all the answers you need here. And dont spend any extra seconds at attorney office, they will bill the hell out of you. On point no chatting or anything and why cant you get the Financial Disclosure Forms today and get filling them out.
> 
> if your house was on fire do you wait a week to call the fire dept? Good Lord grow a pair Sir. You can do this.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Preaching with the fire of the converted.

Does my heart good when men find themselves.


----------



## Chuck71

so that's why TAM pays no property tax!!!


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Follow the advice on here. Exposure is beyond your capability right now. You need to start over from scratch.
> 
> 180 and No Contact!
> 
> REMEMBER THIS: you will not respond to anything no matter what she says or writes. If it is about kids then you can reply but if there is more than 3 words in your reply you need to stop and post on TAM before sending. I am serious.
> 
> If possible NEVER reply. View NOT REPLYING as winning! Every non response is a point scored.
> 
> She will do everything possible to engage you. You will be so angry sometimes.
> 
> DO NOT SHOW IT.
> DO NOT ACT ON IT.
> NEVER APOLOGIZE TO HER AGAIN FOR ANYTHING.
> NEVER EXPLAIN YOURSELF TO HER AGAIN.
> REMOVE SORRY FROM YIUR VOCABULARY.
> 
> Believe me you will be tested. Right now you fold like a cheap suit.
> 
> Read these posts and reread. You dont need more counseling from pastor or anyone. You already have all the answers you need here. And dont spend any extra seconds at attorney office, they will bill the hell out of you. On point no chatting or anything and why cant you get the Financial Disclosure Forms today and get filling them out.
> 
> if your house was on fire do you wait a week to call the fire dept? Good Lord grow a pair Sir. You can do this.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


thanks man. keep hitting me over the head, it will eventually sink it. 

Im going with Something came up, cant make it. Then 180 and NC...


----------



## Chuck71

get used to saying

"I'm sorry you feel that way."

Are you a fan of CS Lewis?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> get used to saying
> 
> "I'm sorry you feel that way."
> 
> Are you a fan of CS Lewis?


I am not familiar with him..Can you recommend a book?


----------



## unbe

already responded....prob quickest response she has ever sent me in the 6 years I have known her. lol


----------



## ThreeStrikes

How did she respond?


----------



## unbe

on a side note it appears she has stopped paying for bills that we agreed she would pay prior to her leaving.

Should I 

A, cover these bills note them for the lawyer and go after her for them? They are bills that will directly affect me. Also one of them is the car insurance which she agreed to pay and in doing so I allowed her to keep the car even though its in my name. I can therefore pay that bill and go get the car.

B, contact her (which im thinking no way in He!!) and inquire to why they havent been paid


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> How did she respond?


"Okay."


----------



## cbnero

This is why you should have gotten a lawyer and had her served immediately like we told you. 

I had mine served and was going to take her to court for a Temp Court Order. To avoid going to see a judge, she signed of on our agreement so now anything she does that violates that agreement immediately puts her in contempt of court. It also makes her get the divorce stuff done on time vs dragging her feet which she would like to (and tried to) do. Now if she gets out of line or goes off on me all I need to do is remind her off the signed Court Order or have my attorney contact her and it snaps the Bytch right back in line. If she does violate it I can have my attorney haul her before a judge to slap her in line AND have her billed for my attorney fees. 

YOU are to blame for YOUR inaction on this. Recognize your own failure to take control and FIX IT!!! 

Right now you are still showing her your belly and she knows it. And you validate it every day that goes by and you do nothing.

OPTION C
Get the divorce paperwork filed like you were told weeks ago. Get temp court order filed so she has to agree or go to court. SAY NOTHING TO HER ABOUT ANY OF THIS. NO DISCUSSION NO CONTACT!!!

Pay the bills she isn't doing but have it in the TCO she needs to reimburse you for them.

WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF FOR ONCE!!!!!

Lay on your bed and take your hand, make a fist, and punch yourself in the groin as hard as possible. Yes... Those are testicles... Use them.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> on a side note it appears she has stopped paying for bills that we agreed she would pay prior to her leaving.
> 
> Should I
> 
> A, cover these bills note them for the lawyer and go after her for them? They are bills that will directly affect me. Also one of them is the car insurance which she agreed to pay and in doing so I allowed her to keep the car even though its in my name. I can therefore pay that bill and go get the car.
> 
> B, contact her (which im thinking no way in He!!) and inquire to why they havent been paid


If the bills are in your name, and not paying them will adversely affect your credit, then pay them and document for your lawyer.

Was your agreement with her verbal, or in writing?

Looks like she is not going to play nicely. Check with your attorney. If he's cool with it, go get your car!


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> on a side note it appears she has stopped paying for bills that we agreed she would pay prior to her leaving.
> 
> Should I
> 
> A, cover these bills note them for the lawyer and go after her for them? They are bills that will directly affect me. Also one of them is the car insurance which she agreed to pay and in doing so I allowed her to keep the car even though its in my name. I can therefore pay that bill and go get the car.
> 
> B, contact her (which im thinking no way in He!!) and inquire to why they havent been paid


does this honestly surprise you?

my X did same thing but...... 90% of bills were hers, NOT mine

her bills are HER problem, what happens when you separate

pay your bills, let the creditors hound her

btw give them her number...... you should not deal with 

her financial woes

pay what is yours

if the car is in your name, get that car yesterday

you pay auto ins. then by danm have the car at your use

I will say, she never planned on paying any of the bills

She wants you to pay for her to go away


----------



## Conrad

You have a key to the car?

Go get it.

Do not tell her.

Just do it.

Talk less, do more.

Once you have the car in your control, pay the bill.

Then sell it.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> You have a key to the car?
> 
> Go get it.
> 
> Do not tell her.
> 
> Just do it.
> 
> Talk less, do more.
> 
> Once you have the car in your control, pay the bill.
> 
> Then sell it.


Let her see the new reality she wants so bad.
Tell her the bf can support her now.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe.....I know you still love her, I will always love my X

but there comes a time when you have to separate

the past from the present

myself, Conrad, 3X, all the guys....see exactly what she is doing

this WILL get ugly, no matter how your heart feels

she wants to take you to the cleaners

while her posom whispers how wonderful

she is in her ear

you can go forth castrated, lay down, be doormat

or grow your nads and rise to the challenge 

with nads, she will be forced to respect you


----------



## unbe

tom67 said:


> Let her see the new reality she wants so bad.
> Tell her the bf can support her now.


She was supposed to pay the insurance (its for both of our cars), and the utilities for the apartment. She is paying all of her other bills as far as im aware (i really don't care to be honest)

I agreed to pay for the whole rent (which was how we were doing this when we were together) and the my credit cards etc...

I don't have a key to the car but if she doesn't pay that insurance (overdue now but the give you 2 weeks grace) I will switch the carrier, pay the bill. Get a key made and jack that car ASAP! Its in my name anyway....

we had this discussion and confirmed it in writing 2 days after the separation.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Check with your attorney on the car. If it was purchased during your marriage, it could be considered joint property..even though the loan is in your name. So don't do anything too stupid.

Unbe, your attorney should be on top of all this. Like cbnero said, file for D. Yesterday. 

End all contact with her. Let your lawyer do the talking.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> This is why you should have gotten a lawyer and had her served immediately like we told you.
> 
> I had mine served and was going to take her to court for a Temp Court Order. To avoid going to see a judge, she signed of on our agreement so now anything she does that violates that agreement immediately puts her in contempt of court. It also makes her get the divorce stuff done on time vs dragging her feet which she would like to (and tried to) do. Now if she gets out of line or goes off on me all I need to do is remind her off the signed Court Order or have my attorney contact her and it snaps the Bytch right back in line. If she does violate it I can have my attorney haul her before a judge to slap her in line AND have her billed for my attorney fees.
> 
> YOU are to blame for YOUR inaction on this. Recognize your own failure to take control and FIX IT!!!
> 
> Right now you are still showing her your belly and she knows it. And you validate it every day that goes by and you do nothing.
> 
> OPTION C
> Get the divorce paperwork filed like you were told weeks ago. Get temp court order filed so she has to agree or go to court. SAY NOTHING TO HER ABOUT ANY OF THIS. NO DISCUSSION NO CONTACT!!!
> 
> Pay the bills she isn't doing but have it in the TCO she needs to reimburse you for them.
> 
> WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF FOR ONCE!!!!!
> 
> Lay on your bed and take your hand, make a fist, and punch yourself in the groin as hard as possible. Yes... Those are testicles... Use them.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


10000% correct bro. I should have and got weak. Now I have to wait until the 22nd to do this. I have already made the appt and am going in NMMNG...literally.

For some reason I was prepared to continue to pay all the rent as if we were married. Trying to keep the 'window' open until the divorce was final

F THAT!!! Time to be held accountable for something once in her life.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Check with your attorney on the car. If it was purchased during your marriage, it could be considered joint property..even though the loan is in your name. So don't do anything too stupid.
> 
> Unbe, your attorney should be on top of all this. Like cbnero said, file for D. Yesterday.
> 
> End all contact with her. Let your lawyer do the talking.


I obv wont do anything prior to discussing with him. 

Meeting is on the 22nd, bills arent due till the 30th

its a lease also


----------



## cbnero

Have you filles out the Financial Disclosures on yout end yet? You say the 22nd but it will take a long time to get this stuff done. Drive over to your attorney and get all the forms today do you are ready on the 22nd to get everything files right away.

All I hear are more excuses. All I see is inability/unwillingness/fear to act.

dont worry about proving anything to us. Prove it to yourself. Less TAM, more action.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

unbe........how did your 1st D go? Easy, hard??


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> unbe........how did your 1st D go? Easy, hard??


I dont remember going though anything like this at all the first time.

was very amicable, we had no ill will towards each other at all


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I dont remember going though anything like this at all the first time.
> 
> was very amicable, we had no ill will towards each other at all


Did you feel you had anything to lose?


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I dont remember going though anything like this at all the first time.
> 
> was very amicable, we had no ill will towards each other at all


so this is in many ways, your first rodeo

we are all here to help you

some offer kind advice, some bust your nads to get moving

I want you to be at the position I was when mine was over

hopefully my advice falls......somewhere in the middle

we all wish to offer assistance

or we would not be here


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Did you feel you had anything to lose?


When going through it I didnt, it just felt like the right thing to do


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> so this is in many ways, your first rodeo
> 
> we are all here to help you
> 
> some offer kind advice, some bust your nads to get moving
> 
> I want you to be at the position I was when mine was over
> 
> hopefully my advice falls......somewhere in the middle
> 
> we all wish to offer assistance
> 
> or we would not be here


i understand and I need all types of support to be honest. I appreciate it all!


----------



## cbnero

I am just coming out the other side. It is extremely difficult and you need to harden your resolve if you hope to beat this and be reborn. The sooner you reclaim your life, the better.

Read what is posted. Make a list of what is true about you. Decide what you will and wont stand for. Once you do this the rest becomes much easier. Look at my posts a few months ago. 

The 180 works but YOU must decide to do it. I like TAM group not just because people sympathize with your plight, but because people dont blow smoke up your rear end! It isnt about survival unbe, a ****roach can survive. Its about becoming something more! Your new life has already begun, and each day you dont grab control is another wasted day.

Believe in yourself, trust in God.

and get R dun!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> When going through it I didnt, it just felt like the right thing to do


But, you DO feel like you have something to lose this time.

What does that tell you?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> But, you DO feel like you have something to lose this time.
> 
> What does that tell you?


I'm a little dense when it comes to this but it tells me I was more infatuated with her then my previous wife. 

Her drug was stronger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe.....I know you still love her, I will always love my X
> 
> but there comes a time when you have to separate
> 
> the past from the present
> 
> myself, Conrad, 3X, all the guys....see exactly what she is doing
> 
> this WILL get ugly, no matter how your heart feels
> 
> she wants to take you to the cleaners
> 
> while her posom whispers how wonderful
> 
> she is in her ear
> 
> you can go forth castrated, lay down, be doormat
> 
> or grow your nads and rise to the challenge
> 
> with nads, she will be forced to respect you


I can tell you, this will not happen. I will not allow myself to be taken advantage of this way. She deserves nothing, she's entitled to nothing and she will get nothing. 

What she will get is, for the first time on her life, a consequence for her action. 

My heart will put me through some chit, my brain will not allow her to ruin me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I'm a little dense when it comes to this but it tells me I was more infatuated with her then my previous wife.
> 
> Her drug was stronger.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You were attracted to this one - and felt lucky to be with her.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> You were attracted to this one - and felt lucky to be with her.


Bingo. I always felt she was out of my league.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

she sensed it and used it to her advantage

you're not alone unbe.....


----------



## cbnero

You were always pursuing her. It gave her power over you. 

Stay the course man. The power balance will change rapidly once you decide to stand up for yourself. You are making progress though I know it may not seem like it sometimes. Don't be afraid to get tough with yourself. A few weeks of it can have big impacts on your self esteem and fortitude.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> You were always pursuing her. It gave her power over you.
> 
> Stay the course man. The power balance will change rapidly once you decide to stand up for yourself. You are making progress though I know it may not seem like it sometimes. Don't be afraid to get tough with yourself. A few weeks of it can have big impacts on your self esteem and fortitude.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I feel like I am making progress. When the set backs come I have to take step back and not act on them. That is what stop progress and sets me back to square one. 

Update: I got invited to a party in a few weeks involving a few people from work and by stbxmil and stbxfil will be there. Should be an interesting dynamic. Trying to decide if I should bring a date to this or not....


----------



## Chuck71

are you sure you evenwant to attend this


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> are you sure you evenwant to attend this


I should attend it as it is good for my career. I also don't not want to attend it just because they are there, why should I allow them to control what I do?


----------



## cbnero

If it were me I would have other plans. You shouldnt let them control you but right now to me no contact means no contact.

my toxic MIL (cheating WAW herself) mailed me a birthday card with $20 and new shirt and the card was like nothing was wrong. I mailed everything right back to her.

f them. Your career is fine for the moment. You arent. Stay away. This is exactly what we have been telling you. There will be plenty of opportunities to face them again. You wonder about how they will feel seeing you but you should be wondering about how you will feel. You have no idea but I can just about guarantee you won't feel good afterwards. 

Unbe - right now you are very easily triggered. Be honest with yourself. Stay the hell away from that party. If you cant do these things you will keep coming back here devastated and back in the hole.

Cmon man

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ReGroup

cbnero said:


> If it were me I would have other plans. You shouldnt let them control you but right now to me no contact means no contact.
> 
> my toxic MIL (cheating WAW herself) mailed me a birthday card with $20 and new shirt and the card was like nothing was wrong. I mailed everything right back to her.
> 
> f them. Your career is fine for the moment. You arent. Stay away. This is exactly what we have been telling you. There will be plenty of opportunities to face them again. You wonder about how they will feel seeing you but you should be wondering about how you will feel. You have no idea but I can just about guarantee you won't feel good afterwards.
> 
> Unbe - right now you are very easily triggered. Be honest with yourself. Stay the hell away from that party. If you cant do these things you will keep coming back here devastated and back in the hole.
> 
> Cmon man
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


cbnero, is on this.

Nice touch on sending the stuff back. 

If you go, your entire night will be influenced by her.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> If it were me I would have other plans. You shouldnt let them control you but right now to me no contact means no contact.
> 
> my toxic MIL (cheating WAW herself) mailed me a birthday card with $20 and new shirt and the card was like nothing was wrong. I mailed everything right back to her.
> 
> f them. Your career is fine for the moment. You arent. Stay away. This is exactly what we have been telling you. There will be plenty of opportunities to face them again. You wonder about how they will feel seeing you but you should be wondering about how you will feel. You have no idea but I can just about guarantee you won't feel good afterwards.
> 
> Unbe - right now you are very easily triggered. Be honest with yourself. Stay the hell away from that party. If you cant do these things you will keep coming back here devastated and back in the hole.
> 
> Cmon man
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


all valid points. I am sure after seeing them It will set me back now...this party is in 3 weeks however. Perhaps I should re-asses as the time nears. By then she will have been served and who knows what state of mind ill be in. I am hoping a much healthier state than now. 

Thoughts?


----------



## ReGroup

unbe said:


> all valid points. I am sure after seeing them It will set me back now...this party is in 3 weeks however. Perhaps I should re-asses as the time nears. By then she will have been served and who knows what state of mind ill be in. I am hoping a much healthier state than now.
> 
> Thoughts?


Full detachment can take months if not years. 

FYI: Women have this remarkable sense of sensing weakness. If you go there and cling to her every action she'll chew you up and spit you out.


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> Full detachment can take months if not years.
> 
> FYI: Women have this remarkable sense of sensing weakness. If you go there and cling to her every action she'll chew you up and spit you out.


let me clarify,

stbxw will not be there. It was the MIL that was 'supposed to be there'

not 30 seconds ago a revised invite went out saying no + 1's can go which is now meaning the MIL will not be there. Just her step father whom she never liked and they have clashed since the beginning. Most likely due to the fact he tries to hold her accountable.....

I will have multiple people from work there and can easily avoid him. Not sure if this changes anything, I still think I should wait to make this decision till much closer to the time


----------



## Chuck71

cbnero said:


> my toxic MIL (cheating WAW herself) mailed me a birthday card with $20 and new shirt and the card was like nothing was wrong. I mailed everything right back to her.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I'm sure that "gift" had expectations attached

there is no crazy like crazies during and after D


----------



## cbnero

Oh of course there were expectations. She wanted to keep emotional control over me. I don't trust any of her family. 
And neither should unbe. MIL might have FIL there with some instructions or marching orders. 

Stay away unbe. You are not thinking clearly. I know it's 3 weeks away but right now you are at Day 0. And once she is served what will FIL opinion be? You won't know why would he be honest with you and you can't trust him anyways. 

Get the dirt from your eyes. You need to commit to doing the 180 for yourself and yourself only. Forget her or what changes she or her family will see in you. Otherwise you are only faking it and you will certainly crumble under pressure. 

You have to make a commitment to yourself here man. It is a process and you are cherrypicking and flirting around with the idea but not committing fully.

Just accept that you can't control some things but recognize what you can control - yourself. And then do it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

todays update:

had a great night last night, been talking to a girl from a dating site. she seems really nice, we have alot in common (a welcome change from stbx). We are going out Sat night for dinner, very much looking forward to it. 

Driving in, i started thinking about an old Tom Petty song. I think its going to be my new mantra


It's time to move on, time to get going
What lies ahead, I have no way of knowing
But under my feet, baby, grass is growing
It's time to move on, it's time to get going

Broken skyline, movin' through the airport
She's an honest defector
Conscientious objector
Now her own protector

Broken skyline, which way to love land
Which way to something better
Which way to forgiveness
Which way do I go

Time to move on, time to get going
What lies ahead, I have no way of knowing
But under my feet, baby, grass is growing
It's time to move on, it's time to get going

Sometime later, getting the words wrong
Wasting the meaning and losing the rhyme
Nauseous adrenaline
Like breakin' up a dogfight
Like a deer in the headlights
Frozen in real time
I'm losing my mind

It's time to move on, time to get going
What lies ahead, I have no way of knowing
But under my feet, baby, grass is growing
It's time to move on, it's time to get going


----------



## Chuck71

it is healthy to latch onto a song for a time frame

you can listen to a song from your senior year in HS

and it will take you right back when, even if you hated it

music is a photographic memory chip

reason you see soundtracks on so many movies

esp. if setting is ten or more years in past


----------



## cbnero

Word of caution on dating so soon. I wouldnt do it. Or at least be careful.

Anything looks and feels good at this point. And the fastest way to justify your stbx actions is to enter another failed relationship for her to point to.

Make sure you are happy alone first. Otherwise you are just changing the targets of your codependency.

you still have a long ways to go, in my opinion. I tied it too and quickly realized I wasnt ready. I am focusing on only myself for now. When summer comes I will be ready.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Dating is fine. Just don't go looking for a LTR yet. Date many women. You'll realize your ex wasn't so special after all


----------



## cbnero

Well that part is true. You will quickly find what you want and or dont want. There will be many more dont's than do's. Lol

but yes don't get into a LTR.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

Yea not planning on, ready to or want to get into a LTR.

Just looking forward to having fun!


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> Yea not planning on, ready to or want to get into a LTR.
> 
> Just looking forward to having fun!


There are plenty of women out there with the same mindset.


----------



## unbe

Getting ready to go out with the boys. Hoping for a good night but feeling sad. Trying to understand why this is triggering me. 

Trying to get to 50k and understand why
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Its because you still have a lot of pain to work through. You need to work on yourself until you are happy alone. Once you do this you will rise from the ashes a new man, a changed and powerful one.

That is why I cautioned meeting anyone as it only provides a temporary feeling of happiness while all the hurt and fear sits undealt with and festering in the corner of your mind. If you choose to ignore and run from it, it will haunt you in every relationship moving forward. You could conceivably "move on" without learning anything and when it happens again it will be that much worse.

Again, it is a process. You simply need to choose to listen and take action.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ReGroup

cbnero said:


> Its because you still have a lot of pain to work through. You need to work on yourself until you are happy alone. Once you do this you will rise from the ashes a new man, a changed and powerful one.
> 
> That is why I cautioned meeting anyone as it only provides a temporary feeling of happiness while all the hurt and fear sits undealt with and festering in the corner of your mind. If you choose to ignore and run from it, it will haunt you in every relationship moving forward. You could conceivably "move on" without learning anything and when it happens again it will be that much worse.
> 
> Again, it is a process. You simply need to choose to listen and take action.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I tend to agree.

I have dated a few women and have been reserved.

Batting Practice. Spring Training. 

No need for need regular season games yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

you rarely remember many dates with women

unless you end up talking "the Walk of Death"

but...out with the boys.....ohhh yeahhhh

those are memories


----------



## unbe

Wound up having a good time. Just being out of the house is always good. 

Kept thinking though what if she walked in what would I do. I need to continue to read, recognize and work
On my own chit. 

I hold a lot of anger towards stbx, I have a feeling I won't be ready to move forward completely until this anger turns into forgiveness and acceptance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

ReGroup said:


> I tend to agree.
> 
> I have dated a few women and have been reserved.
> 
> Batting Practice. Spring Training.
> 
> No need for need regular season games yet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly what I want. Altough I may not be even ready for anything except single A
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Stick with your male buddies. Leave the wome alone. Its a lose-lose. Very few quality women will date a guy who is married. And what happens if you meet a great one and hit it off? You cant start a relationship and if you do it is relatively certain to fail since you are not ready. To think otherwise is lying to yourself.

You havent mastered NC /180 or even your triggers yet. I dont mean to be rude but as an outside obsever you seem to be ping ponging all of the place. Poop or get off the pot my friend. If you cant make a committment to yourself you are just wasting your time and ours. Thats about as honest as I can state it to you. And I and others truly want the best for you.

Start reading your post from the beginnig. See where you need to improve and this time do something about it. And if you cant then take a break from TAM until you are ready.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

No doubt I have to work. 

But I haven't contacted since Tuesday. And before the slip up last Friday I went 4 weeks. 

I am working on the 180 for sure, still need to join the gym though

Triggers are definitely an issue and would love to get these under control. 

Lawyer is on Wednesday and everything gets pushed forward then. 

Going to re-read co dependency and nmmng this weekend. 

Believe me I want nothing more than to get though this. I don't not want to R mainly because I'm realizing now I can never trust her (I never really did to begin with)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe, 

In NMNG it talks about the importance of learning to be alone while not lonely. 

I remember my STBXW asking me why I never wanted go out with my friends. I told her the truth: I grew up, they didn't and all they want to do is go out and get drunk and chase skirt. I was okay just being home or with her. My mistake was fearing her need for her friends and freedom. Even her friends who I considered unsafe for her. That was quilt by association and it was wrong on my part.

Anyway, Learn to be alone. I am. Without all her grief and problems I'm amazed with how much I get done by 10 am. Sure, routines are different now and I need to fill voids, but I'm discovering how much I enjoy reading and talking. And writing. When I was with her I thought I didn't like talking. Not true. I didn't like talking with her.

Just stop thinking you are a victim and focus on what you want and how you are going to get it. Enjoy your time. It's all yours and you control what you want when you want it.


----------



## unbe

Pictureless said:


> Unbe,
> 
> In NMNG it talks about the importance of learning to be alone while not lonely.
> 
> This is by far my biggest challenge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

It will eventually become your biggest strength.


----------



## cbnero

Agreed I am finding the same. And it will give you a quiet confidence that women can sense. Makes you strong, keeps you calm, let's you process the triggers and not just avoid then but beat them.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Wound up having a good time. Just being out of the house is always good.
> 
> Kept thinking though what if she walked in what would I do. I need to continue to read, recognize and work
> On my own chit.
> 
> I hold a lot of anger towards stbx, I have a feeling I won't be ready to move forward completely until this anger turns into forgiveness and acceptance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can't say I'm surprised it went well.

Don't push yourself on forgiveness.

She did some horrible things.

Accept that she's an ass - today.

Just like you


----------



## unbe

Forgiveness will most likely be the hardest to accomplish and will surely take the longest to achieve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe, if I remember correctly you and your W have no kids together, right?

If so, your D will cut all ties except for your emotional tie to her. You must let her go or you won't move on.

We're with you buddy. Basically it's the same with me: I've been rejected and or replaced. I can't control that, I can't stop it. I'm trying to learn from it and grow.

I'll never understand why and it doesn't matter. I'll never know if she'll later regret it. I'll never speak to her again after the divorce is final. It's ok. Why would I want to? She isn't worried about me right now. She's probably doing the bone dance with someone right now. I can't stop that. And if she is I don't want her back. She's not who I married. If she was, I wouldn't be here.

All this applies to you too. Face it. Accept it. Don't worry about forgiveness right now. She's not asking for your forgiveness. Care only about YOU.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Forgiveness will most likely be the hardest to accomplish and will surely take the longest to achieve.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you ever heard of the movie "Blue Valentine"?


----------



## unbe

Pictureless said:


> Unbe, if I remember correctly you and your W have no kids together, right?
> 
> If so, your D will cut all ties except for your emotional tie to her. You must let her go or you won't move on.
> 
> We're with you buddy. Basically it's the same with me: I've been rejected and or replaced. I can't control that, I can't stop it. I'm trying to learn from it and grow.
> 
> I'll never understand why and it doesn't matter. I'll never know if she'll later regret it. I'll never speak to her again after the divorce is final. It's ok. Why would I want to? She isn't worried about me right now. She's probably doing the bone dance with someone right now. I can't stop that. And if she is I don't want her back. She's not who I married. If she was, I wouldn't be here.
> 
> All this applies to you too. Face it. Accept it. Don't worry about forgiveness right now. She's not asking for your forgiveness. Care only about YOU.


Yes no kids. I honestly don't ever want to talk to her again. I see no benefit to this at all. All it will do at this point is cause me pain
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Have you ever heard of the movie "Blue Valentine"?


I havent
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I havent
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get it from Netflix and watch it.


----------



## 3putt

Here it is online for free, if you can tolerate watching it that way.

Watch Blue Valentine Online Free Putlocker | Putlocker - Watch Movies Online Free


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Forgiveness will most likely be the hardest to accomplish and will surely take the longest to achieve.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


forgiveness is more for YOU, not her

I always paralleled it with the IDGAF stage


----------



## ICLH

I think it will be easier for you to forgive her than for me to forgive myself for watching the movie Coyote Ugly back to back on TV because I'm too depressed to change the channel. My life is officially sh#t.


----------



## Pictureless

ICLH said:


> I think it will be easier for you to forgive her than for me to forgive myself for watching the movie Coyote Ugly back to back on TV because I'm too depressed to change the channel. My life is officially sh#t.


You should be depressed for watching that movie, even if you were happily married. 

What's your favorite movie? Who is your favorite actor?


----------



## ReGroup

ICLH said:


> I think it will be easier for you to forgive her than for me to forgive myself for watching the movie Coyote Ugly back to back on TV because I'm too depressed to change the channel. My life is officially sh#t.


You will laugh about this one day. I promise you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

ICLH said:


> I think it will be easier for you to forgive her than for me to forgive myself for watching the movie Coyote Ugly back to back on TV because I'm too depressed to change the channel. My life is officially sh#t.


How about deciding today to change that?

Claim your happiness.

(That is a lousy movie)


----------



## unbe

date last night:

went really well. she is a very sweet girl. i will definitely see her again. we went to dinner at a restaurant near us (funny I had been there once before, with the stbx..lol. didnt bother me in the least.

good food, great conversation. afterwards we went for coffee and sat for another hour and chatted. was very easy and refreshing.

woke up this morning, feeling pretty good. 

got a text message yesterday morning from stbx and didnt want to look at it and get aggravated. i had my buddy look and tell me if it needed responding, he said no so i told him to delete it. no response coming from this guy!


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> date last night:
> 
> went really well. she is a very sweet girl. i will definitely see her again. we went to dinner at a restaurant near us (funny I had been there once before, with the stbx..lol. didnt bother me in the least.
> 
> good food, great conversation. afterwards we went for coffee and sat for another hour and chatted. was very easy and refreshing.
> 
> woke up this morning, feeling pretty good.
> 
> got a text message yesterday morning from stbx and didnt want to look at it and get aggravated. i had my buddy look and tell me if it needed responding, he said no so i told him to delete it. no response coming from this guy!


Laughing


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Laughing


Am I about to get blasted? Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Am I about to get blasted? Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I'm admiring your coping mechanisms.


----------



## Chuck71

I give it a week....before stbx......reaches out to.....

"see how you are doing" and "admit she misses you"

luckily unbe..... the advice given to you

you already know what to do

btw....did you have a post on this

back in Oct / Nov '13?


----------



## unbe

Can you send me the link. I don't believe so....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

unbe said:


> date last night:
> 
> went really well. she is a very sweet girl. i will definitely see her again. we went to dinner at a restaurant near us (funny I had been there once before, with the stbx..lol. didnt bother me in the least.
> 
> good food, great conversation. afterwards we went for coffee and sat for another hour and chatted. was very easy and refreshing.
> 
> woke up this morning, feeling pretty good.
> 
> got a text message yesterday morning from stbx and didnt want to look at it and get aggravated. i had my buddy look and tell me if it needed responding, he said no so i told him to delete it. no response coming from this guy!


Winning!!!

Drink from the cup of tiger blood.

I like it. Well done. Keep making smart choices.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Winning!!!
> 
> Drink from the cup of tiger blood.
> 
> I like it. Well done. Keep making smart choices.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


That's what it's all about. I like the way this feels I can tell you that for sure!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> That's what it's all about. I like the way this feels I can tell you that for sure!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get ready for your personal power to begin to return.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Get ready for your personal power to begin to return.


Feeling it my friend....

Had another date last night with a different girl. Was supposed to be a quick drink ended up being 4 hours...My eyes are starting to open to this world. They have been closed for so long......

The old me would lock into this girl. We had a really great time. I realize this and will not allow this to happen. 50K


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Feeling it my friend....
> 
> Had another date last night with a different girl. Was supposed to be a quick drink ended up being 4 hours...My eyes are starting to open to this world. They have been closed for so long......
> 
> The old me would lock into this girl. We had a really great time. I realize this and will not allow this to happen. 50K


Now we're talking.

Plan YOUR response.

March to YOUR tune.

The world will sing along.

This I have found to be 100% true.


----------



## cbnero

Conrad said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling it my friend....
> 
> Had another date last night with a different girl. Was supposed to be a quick drink ended up being 4 hours...My eyes are starting to open to this world. They have been closed for so long......
> 
> The old me would lock into this girl. We had a really great time. I realize this and will not allow this to happen. 50K
> 
> 
> 
> Now we're talking.
> 
> Plan YOUR response.
> 
> March to YOUR tune.
> 
> The world will sing along.
> 
> This I have found to be 100% true.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Do this. Keep winning. Every day. Each morning when you wake up plan how you want that day to go and how you will act, think, process what happens around you, and react. And do not let anyone tell you otherwise. You will like the results.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

update:

been a great couple of days. 

been talking to (lets call her CF) from Sunday night, great talks. we really have a lot in common, got plans for the weekend with her very much looking forward to it. 

Trying my hardest to not get sucked in to the old ways...I am still chatting with a few others.

As for the stbx....honestly haven't given her much thought if any at all. Mainly because of these distractions which I guess is good and bad. I had started to trigger over something last night but immediately caught myself and recognized the feeling and squashed it. 

Nothing can stop me now....I cant wait to get this D done. The world is expanding to me by the minute!!


----------



## Chuck71

observe at 100k feet the few days after she is served

you will view things......that will make you SYH


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> observe at 100k feet the few days after she is served
> 
> you will view things......that will make you SYH


full expecting those proceeding days to be very entertaining


----------



## cbnero

unbe said:


> update:
> 
> been a great couple of days.
> 
> been talking to (lets call her CF) from Sunday night, great talks. we really have a lot in common, got plans for the weekend with her very much looking forward to it.
> 
> Trying my hardest to not get sucked in to the old ways...I am still chatting with a few others.
> 
> As for the stbx....honestly haven't given her much thought if any at all. Mainly because of these distractions which I guess is good and bad. I had started to trigger over something last night but immediately caught myself and recognized the feeling and squashed it.
> 
> Nothing can stop me now....I cant wait to get this D done. The world is expanding to me by the minute!!


Just be sure you are still doing your IC. For me the counselor basically put it this way re: dating... it is like an alcoholic thinking a few sips of booze are ok. They arent. 

I followed her advice and dumped dating, texting, hanging out, etc... with all women. As I started digging into my emotions there was a ton of anger and hurt still there. I didnt notice it when I was occupied with women because it felt good. 

Once I started getting a grip on those emotions then I started making progress very quickly on identity, self esteem, personal power, etc...

Not saying you have the same problems. But make sure you are seeing a good IC that will force you to take a serious look at yourself. There is undeniable pain that you experienced and it wasnt long ago. 

Anyways you are making lots of better decisions. It is a marathon not a sprint. Keep going, you are definitely on the right road now. Just be aware there are still potholes and its an unfamiliar road to you Nothing wrong with not picking up passengers and having a pro help you navigate for a few months.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Just be sure you are still doing your IC. For me the counselor basically put it this way re: dating... it is like an alcoholic thinking a few sips of booze are ok. They arent.
> 
> I followed her advice and dumped dating, texting, hanging out, etc... with all women. As I started digging into my emotions there was a ton of anger and hurt still there. I didnt notice it when I was occupied with women because it felt good.
> 
> Once I started getting a grip on those emotions then I started making progress very quickly on identity, self esteem, personal power, etc...
> 
> Not saying you have the same problems. But make sure you are seeing a good IC that will force you to take a serious look at yourself. There is undeniable pain that you experienced and it wasnt long ago.
> 
> Anyways you are making lots of better decisions. It is a marathon not a sprint. Keep going, you are definitely on the right road now. Just be aware there are still potholes and its an unfamiliar road to you Nothing wrong with not picking up passengers and having a pro help you navigate for a few months.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Undoubtedly I will continue IC as well as my personal self development. I have mentioned dating and he agreed it would be good but proceed with caution


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Undoubtedly I will continue IC as well as my personal self development. I have mentioned dating and he agreed it would be good but proceed with caution


Put a boundary on the physical stuff for now.

Just have a good time.


----------



## cbnero

Conrad said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Undoubtedly I will continue IC as well as my personal self development. I have mentioned dating and he agreed it would be good but proceed with caution
> 
> 
> 
> Put a boundary on the physical stuff for now.
> 
> Just have a good time.
Click to expand...

This. You will have plenty of women throwing themselves at you anyways.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> This. You will have plenty of women throwing themselves at you anyways.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Already in play. Need a clear head these days and that will only complicate matters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## helolover

cbnero said:


> Just be sure you are still doing your IC. For me the counselor basically put it this way re: dating... it is like an alcoholic thinking a few sips of booze are ok. They arent.
> 
> I followed her advice and dumped dating, texting, hanging out, etc... with all women. As I started digging into my emotions there was a ton of anger and hurt still there. I didnt notice it when I was occupied with women because it felt good.
> 
> Once I started getting a grip on those emotions then I started making progress very quickly on identity, self esteem, personal power, etc...
> 
> Not saying you have the same problems. But make sure you are seeing a good IC that will force you to take a serious look at yourself. There is undeniable pain that you experienced and it wasnt long ago.


Best post of the day. Best advice of the day.

If you haven't learned your tendencies yet from your failed marriage (which you are still mopping up from), the probability of attracting the wrong type of woman for you is very high. The cycle continues. Believe me. I did it. 

Dating feels very validating for the wounded soul.


----------



## unbe

like clock work boys...just walked into this email. thoughts?

UNBE,

I know you have reverted back to not responding to me, and for what reason I do not know. While I am sure you don't care and you may get some odd sense of satisfaction hearing this, you've left me in quite a tight spot financially. I had to pay off your Verizon bill yesterday which was over $700 dollars for early termination fees and your Samsung payment plan. I literally had no choice or they would have turned off my phone. *

In terms of last week and cancelling; I don't understand how anything could be more important than having a conversation that could potentially save your marriage, unless it just wasn't that important to you to begin with.*I really wish you had done the right thing in both of these situations, regardless of how mad you may be. Maybe it's all part of your game or your struggle at a power play, but at this point I don't really know anymore. *

This is where the important information comes in, which requires action on your behalf: I will be dropping your car from the car insurance policy because I cannot afford to pay it anymore. You know what I bring home so I'm sure you can do the math and understand. I'll wait until Friday to remove it so you have some time to find a new policy. I priced one out on Progressive for you and they said it would be $125 per month, in case you're interested.*

Look, I really do think this could have been a lot easier if you had opted to just talk to me. I understand it feels easier to be non-confrontational and ignore me, but I've learned in the long run all that does is cause really deep problems that can never be solved.*

STBX

1- she makes plenty and can certainly afford it. shes been paying these bills for months without any problem before now

2- looks like a feeble attempt to reach out which I will not fall for.

*


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> like clock work boys...just walked into this email. thoughts?
> 
> UNBE,
> 
> I know you have reverted back to not responding to me, and for what reason I do not know. While I am sure you don't care and you may get some odd sense of satisfaction hearing this, you've left me in quite a tight spot financially. I had to pay off your Verizon bill yesterday which was over $700 dollars for early termination fees and your Samsung payment plan. I literally had no choice or they would have turned off my phone. *
> 
> In terms of last week and cancelling; I don't understand how anything could be more important than having a conversation that could potentially save your marriage, unless it just wasn't that important to you to begin with.*I really wish you had done the right thing in both of these situations, regardless of how mad you may be. Maybe it's all part of your game or your struggle at a power play, but at this point I don't really know anymore. *
> 
> This is where the important information comes in, which requires action on your behalf: I will be dropping your car from the car insurance policy because I cannot afford to pay it anymore. You know what I bring home so I'm sure you can do the math and understand. I'll wait until Friday to remove it so you have some time to find a new policy. I priced one out on Progressive for you and they said it would be $125 per month, in case you're interested.*
> 
> Look, I really do think this could have been a lot easier if you had opted to just talk to me. I understand it feels easier to be non-confrontational and ignore me, but I've learned in the long run all that does is cause really deep problems that can never be solved.*
> 
> STBX
> 
> 1- she makes plenty and can certainly afford it. shes been paying these bills for months without any problem before now
> 
> 2- looks like a feeble attempt to reach out which I will not fall for.
> 
> *


As I recall, this is your car.

Driving it without insurance is against the law.

Talk to your attorney and find out if it's legal for you to recover the car from her and sell it.


----------



## cbnero

I dont see a question in her entire email. It is just rambling - all about what she wants, what she thinks. Nowhere in that letter does she validate anything you might be experiencing or ask how you feel. 

Want to know why? Because it is all about her. That is all she is concerned with. The email seems riddled with triggers to me - innuendos, mind reading, blame shifting, guilt laying, etc...

So now let's elevate to 50k. What does this email mean? Answer: nothing. What she thinks is irrelevant right now. Who cares about getting your own car insurance? My parents made me do that when I was 18. Ooohh big scary threat there. 

Get your own car insurance today. Dont tell her you got it. And your intuition is correct - no reply.

Let her sit and stew in her own BS. She apparently cant get enough of it. And wants to keep emotional hold on you.

Keep it up bro. You have come far in the past week. You are an immovable object from here on out. Hold fast, hold firm. Keep doing 180.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> As I recall, this is your car.
> 
> Driving it without insurance is against the law.
> 
> Talk to your attorney and find out if it's legal for you to recover the car from her and sell it.


I did and he said I'm good to go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I did and he said I'm good to go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Remain silent and execute on that plan.

I would actually take the car to a lot on the day I drove it away from her place (have the title with you) and sell it on the spot.

Again, say nothing.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> I dont see a question in her entire email. It is just rambling - all about what she wants, what she thinks. Nowhere in that letter does she validate anything you might be experiencing or ask how you feel.
> 
> Want to know why? Because it is all about her. That is all she is concerned with. The email seems riddled with triggers to me - innuendos, mind reading, blame shifting, guilt laying, etc...
> 
> So now let's elevate to 50k. What does this email mean? Answer: nothing. What she thinks is irrelevant right now. Who cares about getting your own car insurance? My parents made me do that when I was 18. Ooohh big scary threat there.
> 
> Get your own car insurance today. Dont tell her you got it. And your intuition is correct - no reply.
> 
> Let her sit and stew in her own BS. She apparently cant get enough of it. And wants to keep emotional hold on you.
> 
> Keep it up bro. You have come far in the past week. You are an immovable object from here on out. Hold fast, hold firm. Keep doing 180.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I fully can read through her email. The comment about saving the marriage is a attempt to pull me back in with a false glimmer of hope so that I can once again bail her out and save the day. 

Guess what... That's not going to happen!!! Eyes are wide open

It's actually scary to me to see that comment. This is barely the beginning of real life and she's petrified. There's a rude awakening coming...

Anyway, spoke to CF last night for 3 hours. I have never spoken to anyone in my life for that long. She's a really good person from what I can tell. Excited to see her this weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

if she truly want to work on M, she would go a helluva lot

further in reaching you

legally, unless you gave her written permission,

the car is yours and per Conrad, w/o insurance

she could sideswipe a school bus and guess who also

gets dragged to court

you need to treat her like a man in negotiating

your "attempting to be cordial" obviously did not work


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> It's actually scary to me to see that comment. This is barely the beginning of real life and she's petrified. There's a rude awakening coming...
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just wait until the car thing goes down.

You might think she'll be enraged - and she will.

It will also increase your chances of a real "R" - that is, if you still would want one.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> if she truly want to work on M, she would go a helluva lot
> 
> further in reaching you
> 
> legally, unless you gave her written permission,
> 
> the car is yours and per Conrad, w/o insurance
> 
> she could sideswipe a school bus and guess who also
> 
> gets dragged to court
> 
> you need to treat her like a man in negotiating
> 
> your "attempting to be cordial" obviously did not work


just to be clear there are two vehicles involved. My car which I have now (which she is threatening to remove from the policy) and the other car which she has (which is also mine) that will surely stay on the policy. 

Now, saying that the point of this email has nothing to do with money, saving moving or anything like that. The point of it, as i see it, is either:

1- POSOM read through the facade and ran for the hills
2- The NC has got her scared to be losing the doormat

In either case, I dont really care. I still haven't heard one bit of remorse. Until I do, there is not even a thought of anything other than full speed ahead.


----------



## LongWalk

Conrad said:


> Remain silent and execute on that plan.
> 
> I would actually take the car to a lot on the day I drove it away from her place (have the title with you) and sell it on the spot.
> 
> Again, say nothing.


Check the Blue Book value. 

Clean it up. Make sure there no used condom packages under the seat.


----------



## Chuck71

could be a false R since he ran for the hills

not your problem

you were not the one to blow this up

she is learning accountability

in a harsh way

pop did me that way as kid, I thought I knew best

he let the "steel hit me in the a$$", a term from the 60s/70s

then I knew, I should have listened to him


----------



## cbnero

Yes be prepared for her to call or show in person and say she wants to make it work. Mine did. Then she dictated the terms of the R which I foolishly went along with. Lol. Yeah I know, wish I had been on TAM then. 

Point is, she may or may not come back. Both are meaningless really. If she does come back she needs to show remorse and follow the terms you late out for you to even consider it. In the meantime the D goes on. You can always get remarried to her.

But would you want her back? Would you ever be 100% able to trust her? There are tons of posts on TAM where it doesnt work out 2nd time either. A few where it did work too though. Each case/person is different.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> just to be clear there are two vehicles involved. My car which I have now (which she is threatening to remove from the policy) and the other car which she has (which is also mine) that will surely stay on the policy.
> 
> Now, saying that the point of this email has nothing to do with money, saving moving or anything like that. The point of it, as i see it, is either:
> 
> 1- POSOM read through the facade and ran for the hills
> 2- The NC has got her scared to be losing the doormat
> 
> In either case, I dont really care. I still haven't heard one bit of remorse. Until I do, there is not even a thought of anything other than full speed ahead.


unbe,

She's still jacking you around on this insurance thing. She's looking to play you and get you to cave.

Selling the car sends the absolute right message.

You are not to be trifled with.

Remember, females communicate emotionally.

This is her language.


----------



## Chuck71

Conrad said:


> unbe,
> 
> She's still jacking you around on this insurance thing. She's looking to play you and get you to cave.
> 
> Selling the car sends the absolute right message.
> 
> You are not to be trifled with.
> 
> Remember, females communicate emotionally.
> 
> This is her language.


:iagree:


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Yes be prepared for her to call or show in person and say she wants to make it work. Mine did. Then she dictated the terms of the R which I foolishly went along with. Lol. Yeah I know, wish I had been on TAM then.
> 
> Point is, she may or may not come back. Both are meaningless really. If she does come back she needs to show remorse and follow the terms you late out for you to even consider it. In the meantime the D goes on. You can always get remarried to her.
> 
> But would you want her back? Would you ever be 100% able to trust her? There are tons of posts on TAM where it doesnt work out 2nd time either. A few where it did work too though. Each case/person is different.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


 How could I take back this person? These emails are literally scaring me straight. Dr jekyl, ms hyde syndrom...

I called the insurance company and for her to drop my car it would actually increase the policy...Confirmed that this email is BS and just an attempt to keep plan B around for a bit longer.

A MAJOR change would have to take place to even consider it, she is not capable of this. Perhaps no human being would be.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> unbe,
> 
> She's still jacking you around on this insurance thing. She's looking to play you and get you to cave.
> 
> Selling the car sends the absolute right message.
> 
> You are not to be trifled with.
> 
> Remember, females communicate emotionally.
> 
> This is her language.


Honestly id rather keep the car. Its a lease so it wouldnt be easy to sell but I think I see the point. Just getting the car sends the same message....


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Honestly id rather keep the car. Its a lease so it wouldnt be easy to sell but I think I see the point. Just getting the car sends the same message....


If the car isn't "gone", then she'll try to get it back.


----------



## cbnero

Agreed. Get the car back. My advice - sell/trade both vehicles in on another one for yourself.

As soon as you file it will be in the court order that she gets to have use of "her" vehicle and you cant sell it. She will have to reimburse you for the payment. And then she wont pay and essentially dare you to haul her to court. I am in this position now but with her not paying for her health and life ins. Not sure how I am going to handle it yet, she has a week or so yet here to cough it up. Feb 1 I haul her in and shame her before a judge.

So yes. Get the car. Get rid of it. Dont worry about the cost. It will be worth it.

And yes why would you want that madness back in your life? You are talking so much sense now it is scary. Constant pounding on TAM flip the light switch on? Excellent. Welcome back to reality.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Agreed. Get the car back. My advice - sell/trade both vehicles in on another one for yourself.
> 
> As soon as you file it will be in the court order that she gets to have use of "her" vehicle and you cant sell it. She will have to reimburse you for the payment. And then she wont pay and essentially dare you to haul her to court. I am in this position now but with her not paying for her health and life ins. Not sure how I am going to handle it yet, she has a week or so yet here to cough it up. Feb 1 I haul her in and shame her before a judge.
> 
> So yes. Get the car. Get rid of it. Dont worry about the cost. It will be worth it.
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



Thank you for pointing this out, i wasn't seeing this side of it. 

I really think what has knocked me out of my fog/addiction to my X is the eye opening feedback from everyone here as well as my pastor, reading and realizing I can fix my shortcomings along with the attention from other females which has basically shown me I have nothing to be afraid of. 

I'm getting my confidence back which I will NEVER let go of again. NO MATTER WHAT
And yes why would you want that madness back in your life? You are talking so much sense now it is scary. Constant pounding on TAM flip the light switch on? Excellent. Welcome back to reality.


----------



## Chuck71

do you have a relative or friend whom lives nearby

who can at least store the car in a garage?

even if you trade the lease in....and get a "lower"

model...it will be less headache for you

can the early return on lease give you a credit 

at the car place? free oil change / tire rotation balance

tune up, free rental in future for trips....

even if you lose $300 on taking the car back

it is better than having the headaches 

talking more.... bores her, low respect

doing more....she notices and respects either way the D goes


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> do you have a relative or friend whom lives nearby
> 
> who can at least store the car in a garage?
> 
> even if you trade the lease in....and get a "lower"
> 
> model...it will be less headache for you
> 
> can the early return on lease give you a credit
> 
> at the car place? free oil change / tire rotation balance
> 
> tune up, free rental in future for trips....
> 
> even if you lose $300 on taking the car back
> 
> it is better than having the headaches
> 
> talking more.... bores her, low respect
> 
> doing more....she notices and respects either way the D goes


Im sure I can figure something out. Selling it may be the way to go. Its a quick drama ender.

Just ordered a replacement key. Once that comes in...show time!


----------



## LongWalk

Unbe,

Your are really getting it! Way to go. Conrad's suggestion about the car is simply an excellent move. Imagine her face when she comes out of work or from wherever you commandeer it.

She will not contact the police first. She'll contact her man. Suddenly you will be her guy for moment. All you have to do is say, "Don't worry I'll take care of it."

"But you don't understand, it's gone, I came outside and it's gone!"

"The leasing company probably took it back. They do that sometimes when there is no insurance on their vehicles."

Not only will she be wondering about her car, and people are often deeply attached to cars, she'll be say, "where did the nice guy go? Who is this dude?"


----------



## cbnero

Just make sure you havent filed the D til after you get the car. Though you can put in the temp agreement you get both vehicles, a judge will probably rule that she can continue to use it.

Get the hardcore shyt out of the way first. Asap.

Brick on the gas pedal. Full steam ahead.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

Update from last night:

Met CF for coffee, turned into a 2 hour drive along the coast. Things are progressing exactly how they should.... We have a great time toghther

NC still in effect and I honestly don't see any reason for it to ever end. Waiting on the key to come in order to initiate operation wake up call lol


----------



## cbnero

unbe said:


> Update from last night:
> 
> Met CF for coffee, turned into a 2 hour drive along the coast. Things are progressing exactly how they should.... We have a great time toghther
> 
> NC still in effect and I honestly don't see any reason for it to ever end. Waiting on the key to come in order to initiate operation wake up call lol


Yes... wait, make that a Hell Yes!
Unbe has arrived.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Update from last night:
> 
> Met CF for coffee, turned into a 2 hour drive along the coast. Things are progressing exactly how they should.... We have a great time toghther
> 
> NC still in effect and I honestly don't see any reason for it to ever end. Waiting on the key to come in order to initiate operation wake up call lol


her reaction will be the bane of her soul

scarred, damaged, no "Cover Girl"

a fly by @ 100k will unfold your sad but true synopsis

this is the woman you married....the REAL her

I had to do this, about a year to the day

it hurts...but you now know truth

what is your age and music genre in high school?

Conrad, LW, nero....have we thought of a nickname for

unbe's yet?


----------



## unbe

what is your age and music genre in high school?


36/was into soft metal (Def Lep, GNR, Poison, Smashing Pumpkins)


----------



## cbnero

I am thinking Queensryche - Operation: Mind Crime

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

cbnero said:


> I am thinking Queensryche - Operation: Mind Crime
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


saw them in 88, opened for Def Leppard

STOLE the show, hands down

spreading the disease was epic


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> her reaction will be the bane of her soul
> 
> scarred, damaged, no "Cover Girl"
> 
> a fly by @ 100k will unfold your sad but true synopsis
> 
> this is the woman you married....the REAL her
> 
> I had to do this, about a year to the day
> 
> it hurts...but you now know truth
> 
> what is your age and music genre in high school?
> 
> Conrad, LW, nero....have we thought of a nickname for
> 
> unbe's yet?


Working Girl


----------



## Chuck71

too simplistic, where's the shyt that separates her


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> too simplistic, where's the shyt that separates her


Unbe has been rather reserved about her dysregulation.

I suppose we could call her Grand Theft Auto

Or, perhaps, "Edsel", as that will be all she can afford.


----------



## unbe

random thought....

looking back, stbx (guys i need a better name for her) always claimed that we had nothing in common. I would fight the issue saying that we could find a common ground and find things to do toghether that we would both enjoy (which actually meant me doing everything she wanted even though I hated it and her putting down what I liked to do) However, even though I was doing these things the fact that I resented being forced to these things made it worse. 

She was right, we had/have no common interests. We will never meet on a common ground as she incapable of recognizing her faults/shortcomings in any aspect of life.

You ask if id consider a R. I answer with why? Why put myself back into a situation like that. The amount of maturing she needs to do is beyond measurable. 

Meanwhile, I have known CF for the around a week (yea I know). I have seen her twice, spoken to her alot. Already have more in common, have had deeper conversations than I have ever had with STBX in the 5 years I knew her.


Dare I say it....STBX has set me free!


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Unbe has been rather reserved about her dysregulation.
> 
> I suppose we could call her Grand Theft Auto
> 
> Or, perhaps, "Edsel", as that will be all she can afford.


how about matchbox...i was thinking of replacing the car with replica matchbox car and leaving it in the spot when I left. :smthumbup:


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> how about matchbox...i was thinking of replacing the car with replica matchbox car and leaving it in the spot when I left. :smthumbup:


Matchbox it is.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> random thought....
> 
> looking back, stbx (guys i need a better name for her) always claimed that we had nothing in common. I would fight the issue saying that we could find a common ground and find things to do toghether that we would both enjoy (which actually meant me doing everything she wanted even though I hated it and her putting down what I liked to do) However, even though I was doing these things the fact that I resented being forced to these things made it worse.
> 
> She was right, we had/have no common interests. We will never meet on a common ground as she incapable of recognizing her faults/shortcomings in any aspect of life.
> 
> You ask if id consider a R. I answer with why? Why put myself back into a situation like that. The amount of maturing she needs to do is beyond measurable.
> 
> Meanwhile, I have known CF for the around a week (yea I know). I have seen her twice, spoken to her alot. Already have more in common, have had deeper conversations than I have ever had with STBX in the 5 years I knew her.
> 
> 
> Dare I say it....STBX has set me free!


How were you guys between the sheets?


----------



## cbnero

Conrad said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> random thought....
> 
> looking back, stbx (guys i need a better name for her) always claimed that we had nothing in common. I would fight the issue saying that we could find a common ground and find things to do toghether that we would both enjoy (which actually meant me doing everything she wanted even though I hated it and her putting down what I liked to do) However, even though I was doing these things the fact that I resented being forced to these things made it worse.
> 
> She was right, we had/have no common interests. We will never meet on a common ground as she incapable of recognizing her faults/shortcomings in any aspect of life.
> 
> You ask if id consider a R. I answer with why? Why put myself back into a situation like that. The amount of maturing she needs to do is beyond measurable.
> 
> Meanwhile, I have known CF for the around a week (yea I know). I have seen her twice, spoken to her alot. Already have more in common, have had deeper conversations than I have ever had with STBX in the 5 years I knew her.
> 
> 
> Dare I say it....STBX has set me free!
> 
> 
> 
> How were you guys between the sheets?
Click to expand...

You know... I dont have a name for my stbx yet either. But I do now.

Taking into account the magnitude of lies, craziness, complete disrespect for human life, oath breaking, fleeing at the first sign of pushback, etc...

I hereby dub her: the Ayatollah

what do you guys think

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Conrad

cbnero said:


> You know... I dont have a name for my stbx yet either. But I do now.
> 
> Taking into account the magnitude of lies, craziness, complete disrespect for human life, oath breaking, fleeing at the first sign of pushback, etc...
> 
> I hereby dub her: the Ayatollah
> 
> what do you guys think
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Does that make you the Great Satan?


----------



## Pictureless

Hey I didn't know we could name our STBXW. I'm calling mine Scrooge because she's cheap, selfish, and she ruined Christmas.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> How were you guys between the sheets?


In the begining great. Last 18 months limited and non passionate
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

Room in this thread for another?

FWIW, unbe, I think you're doing a fantastic job. 

If I may, slow it down with CF a tad. Keep her around and date but don't get too involved just yet. 

Date other women but nothing serious yet. 

You're 36, right? 

I think you're going to be surprised at the attention you're going to get from other women. Especially as you learn to grasp your manhood again. 

There are thousands of women all around you. Sample them. The more you date the more desirable you become to other women. 

You haven't even filed yet and it's starting to sound like you've found your "soul mate".


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Room in this thread for another?
> 
> FWIW, unbe, I think you're doing a fantastic job.
> 
> If I may, slow it down with CF a tad. Keep her around and date but don't get too involved just yet.
> 
> Date other women but nothing serious yet.
> 
> You're 36, right?
> 
> I think you're going to be surprised at the attention you're going to get from other women. Especially as you learn to grasp your manhood again.
> 
> There are thousands of women all around you. Sample them. The more you date the more desirable you become to other women.
> 
> You haven't even filed yet and it's starting to sound like you've found your "soul mate".


Agree with everything above and I am. Although the soul mate comment is nonsense. I do not believe in that at all. 

Matchbox was supposed to be that, we all see how that turned out lol 

I am 36, the filling is just about done. All aboard the run away train to freedom!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> Matchbox was supposed to be that, we all see how that turned out lol
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Funny how they look so different from 50K, without the pedestal.

Makes you want to kick your own a$$, ya know?


----------



## Ceegee

ThreeStrikes said:


> Funny how they look so different from 50K, without the pedestal.
> 
> 
> 
> Makes you want to kick your own a$$, ya know?



Sure does. 

That's part of owning your POS tendencies and learning from your mistakes.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> In the begining great. Last 18 months limited and non passionate
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That would clinch my decision.

She did just enough to secure "this one" and then her attentions turned elsewhere.

Doesn't sound like there's anything to salvage.

Physical attraction is subconscious and precious. That chemistry is easier to find for men than women. Yet, when you have "it" with someone, it's really something to build on.

Almost to a man, those that successfully reconcile are the ones that "had that" between the sheets.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> That would clinch my decision.
> 
> She did just enough to secure "this one" and then her attentions turned elsewhere.
> 
> Doesn't sound like there's anything to salvage.
> 
> Physical attraction is subconscious and precious. That chemistry is easier to find for men than women. Yet, when you have "it" with someone, it's really something to build on.
> 
> Almost to a man, those that successfully reconcile are the ones that "had that" between the sheets.


Reflecting back... This might have been the one thing that kept us together for as long as it lasted. Kicking my own a$$ would only be a start to what I really deserve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Reflecting back... This might have been the one thing that kept us together for as long as it lasted. Kicking my own a$$ would only be a start to what I really deserve.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Waking up is painful.

But, those that awaken would never choose to go back to sleep.


----------



## Chuck71

your new gal is showing what you had been missing

is it her or the rediscovery? too early to say...

but who am I to talk? I'm still seeing a gal I

started seeing before D was final

when Matchbox calls wondering where car is

tell her it is in the driveway

set the matchbox in front of the garage

tell her you are giving her a bottle of anti-freeze

makes sure she will see it.....only do this if you

will not trigger


----------



## tom67

ThreeStrikes said:


> Funny how they look so different from 50K, without the pedestal.
> 
> Makes you want to kick your own a$$, ya know?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
:banghead::banghead:
Yep in a nutshell.


----------



## helolover

This soul mate thing is a myth that keeps both men and women stuck.

The Soul Mate Myth |


----------



## unbe

Update:

the days are passing by. as they do i can barely remember the so called 'good times' as they are being replaced by my current experiences.

Matchbox's attempt to suck me back into the drama has gone by the waste side, I am just about to secure my own insurance policy. Im sure there are going to be other attempts at a trackter beem suck in ( i can see some other opportunities where she will stop paying other bills) however am ready to deal with them as I am prepping myself now. 

Seeing CF tonight.... She was divorced a few years ago and has read many of the books recommended here. Girls got her head on straight, we have a ton in common and we genuinely enjoy being around each other. There is obvious chemistry there but she is fully aware of my situation and the pace this needs to proceed at and is fully supportive over it. 

Life is good.... 

Adding a quote to my signature, seems very appropriate


----------



## unbe

Update:

the days are passing by. as they do i can barely remember the so called 'good times' as they are being replaced by my current experiences.

Matchbox's attempt to suck me back into the drama has gone by the waste side, I am just about to secure my own insurance policy. Im sure there are going to be other attempts at a trackter beem suck in ( i can see some other opportunities where she will stop paying other bills) however am ready to deal with them as I am prepping myself now.

Seeing CF tonight.... She was divorced a few years ago and has read many of the books recommended here. Girls got her head on straight, we have a ton in common and we genuinely enjoy being around each other. There is obvious chemistry there but she is fully aware of my situation and the pace this needs to proceed at and is fully supportive over it.

Life is good....

Adding a quote to my signature, seems very appropriate


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> the days are passing by. as they do i can barely remember the so called 'good times' as they are being replaced by my current experiences.
> 
> Matchbox's attempt to suck me back into the drama has gone by the waste side, I am just about to secure my own insurance policy. Im sure there are going to be other attempts at a trackter beem suck in ( i can see some other opportunities where she will stop paying other bills) however am ready to deal with them as I am prepping myself now.
> 
> Seeing CF tonight.... She was divorced a few years ago and has read many of the books recommended here. Girls got her head on straight, we have a ton in common and we genuinely enjoy being around each other. There is obvious chemistry there but she is fully aware of my situation and the pace this needs to proceed at and is fully supportive over it.
> 
> Life is good....
> 
> Adding a quote to my signature, seems very appropriate


Does this mean you are not ridding yourself of the car?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Does this mean you are not ridding yourself of the car?


Oh operation matchbox is still in play....

I am in the process of getting my insurance done for my vehicle. Then, I will be getting my other car that shes driving and selling it once I get the copy of the key delivered.


----------



## Chuck71

even if new gal brings up Matchbox or where are you at

in proceedings, deflect it. you are out with her, not Matchbox

All I told my new gal last year was D final date

and "respect my wishes not to discuss it"

had she asked 20 Q's, I would have ran like he!!

you are writing the ending to your previous book

and starting on the next

the next will not ever be written

if you glance back at the previous

full steam ahead; when are you filing

and how will she get served?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> even if new gal brings up Matchbox or where are you at
> 
> in proceedings, deflect it. you are out with her, not Matchbox
> 
> All I told my new gal last year was D final date
> 
> and "respect my wishes not to discuss it"
> 
> had she asked 20 Q's, I would have ran like he!!
> 
> you are writing the ending to your previous book
> 
> and starting on the next
> 
> the next will not ever be written
> 
> if you glance back at the previous
> 
> full steam ahead; when are you filing
> 
> and how will she get served?


Wow, great night with CF. She doesn't pry at all about matchbox. We had great dinner, conversation. Went to the movies after. Kissed goodnight…. perfect night

Matchbox followed through with her threat and dropped the car. I got the confirmation email, laughed and deleted it. She keeps revealing her true self. WHY WAS IN IN THIS FOG FOR SO LONG!!!!!!


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Wow, great night with CF. She doesn't pry at all about matchbox. We had great dinner, conversation. Went to the movies after. Kissed goodnight…. perfect night
> 
> Matchbox followed through with her threat and dropped the car. I got the confirmation email, laughed and deleted it. She keeps revealing her true self. WHY WAS IN IN THIS FOG FOR SO LONG!!!!!!


She did nothing you didn't allow.

If you stay @50k and do not immerse yourself in the weeds of codependence going forward, it won't happen again.


----------



## Conrad

Conrad said:


> She did nothing you didn't allow.
> 
> If you stay @50k and do not immerse yourself in the weeds of codependence going forward, it won't happen again.


Unbe,

Just a little more - a thread to consider. If you and CF continue for awhile, you'll start seeing some of these. I'll bet you will identify with much of this behavior that Matchbox displayed:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Just a little more - a thread to consider. If you and CF continue for awhile, you'll start seeing some of these. I'll bet you will identify with much of this behavior that Matchbox displayed:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


I've read about this previously. I'll be ready when they come!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I've read about this previously. I'll be ready when they come!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's usually around Day #100 that they start.

From 50k, you will observe - perhaps - a quick emotion inside... perhaps an urgency to fix whatever it is she is talking about.

No, the world isn't ending, but do not talk about it that way.

Demonstrate strength by using humor.

The humor reassures her - MUCH more than you reassuring her will reassure her.

For you see, with emotional communication, she's watching what you do instead of listening to what you say.

Jeez... he's not panicked by this AT ALL. I really feel safe.

Yes, all these emotions are recognized at the subconscious level.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> It's usually around Day #100 that they start.
> 
> From 50k, you will observe - perhaps - a quick emotion inside... perhaps an urgency to fix whatever it is she is talking about.
> 
> No, the world isn't ending, but do not talk about it that way.
> 
> Demonstrate strength by using humor.
> 
> 
> 
> The humor reassures her - MUCH more than you reassuring her will reassure her.
> 
> For you see, with emotional communication, she's watching what you do instead of listening to what you say.
> 
> Jeez... he's not panicked by this AT ALL. I really feel safe.
> 
> Yes, all these emotions are recognized at the subconscious level.


Fitness test perhaps?

So we are making plans to go ice skating in the city ( she mentioned that she really wanted to go on our first date)

Cf: The little schedule won't work on my phone. :-( I'll look it up when I get home. (Normally I would offer to look on my phone but since she didn't ask me to, I didn't)

Unbe: Ok no worries. I'm looking for an indoor skating rink. Not having much luck though lol 

Cf: Haha! We don't need to do that. We'll be in the city where there are a million things to do. As long as I'm in your company I'll have a good time. Cue cheesy music - lol!

How'd i do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Fitness test perhaps?
> 
> So we are making plans to go ice skating in the city ( she mentioned that she really wanted to go on our first date)
> 
> Cf: The little schedule won't work on my phone. :-( I'll look it up when I get home. (Normally I would offer to look on my phone but since she didn't ask me to, I didn't)
> 
> Unbe: Ok no worries. I'm looking for an indoor skating rink. Not having much luck though lol
> 
> Cf: Haha! We don't need to do that. We'll be in the city where there are a million things to do. As long as I'm in your company I'll have a good time. Cue cheesy music - lol!
> 
> How'd i do?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you did fine.

Do they still have outdoor skating at Rockefeller Centre?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> I think you did fine.
> 
> Do they still have outdoor skating at Rockefeller Centre?


Yes they do. Also at Bryant park
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Update from today:

Been a pretty normal day. Getting use to being alone. Honestly, I don't love it but I don't mind it either. 

Things with CF are going as good as i can imagine and the speed is perfect. 

Fully expecting to hear from matchbox this week at some point this week for one reason or another. I'll be ready when it comes!

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for helping me get to this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

todays update:

finalizing with lawyer today. that is WINNING!!!

CF came by last night for dinner I cooked for the first time in years, came out really good (I was shocked!). She stayed over and watched a movie then went home. perfect night, perfect speed for me....

re-reading nmmng just to remind me not to follow the same path!


----------



## unbe

guys quick question...

she has stopped paying all of her bills that we agreed she would cover that were joint until all was finalized. 

do i?

1- pay them, stay dark and let the lawyer go after it
2- reach out and say the following?

Matchbox,

It appears you may have forgotten that you were responsible for paying the XXX bill as well as the YYY bill as both are past due.

Please make these payments today. 

I am fully aware of what you bring home ($$$$ every two weeks plus $$$ from from the church every month) which equals $$$ a month. The bills you are responsible for total around $$$$ That leaves you with $$$ left over for the month which is more than what I have left over. I see no reason why you cant continue to honor the remainder of your 'commitments' as we agreed previously. If you need the attachment that outlined the bills I can resend it.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> guys quick question...
> 
> she has stopped paying all of her bills that we agreed she would cover that were joint until all was finalized.
> 
> do i?
> 
> 1- pay them, stay dark and let the lawyer go after it
> 2- reach out and say the following?
> 
> Matchbox,
> 
> It appears you may have forgotten that you were responsible for paying the XXX bill as well as the YYY bill as both are past due.
> 
> Please make these payments today.
> 
> I am fully aware of what you bring home ($$$$ every two weeks plus $$$ from from the church every month) which equals $$$ a month. The bills you are responsible for total around $$$$ That leaves you with $$$ left over for the month which is more than what I have left over. I see no reason why you cant continue to honor the remainder of your 'commitments' as we agreed previously. If you need the attachment that outlined the bills I can resend it.


Don't do any of that.

Just pay them all after you sell the car.


----------



## Chuck71

if they are not in your name

they are her problem

unless you had written agreement

she knows you do the budget

she wants you to

SAVE ME 

HELP ME

ignore, NC, observe from Mars


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> if they are not in your name
> 
> they are her problem
> 
> unless you had written agreement
> 
> she knows you do the budget
> 
> she wants you to
> 
> SAVE ME
> 
> HELP ME
> 
> ignore, NC, observe from Mars


they are in my name...and they will not affect her at all is she doesn't pay them. it was an agreement we had (sounds so stupid now that im saying it and expecting her to honor paying it..lol)


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> they are in my name...and they will not affect her at all is she doesn't pay them. it was an agreement we had (sounds so stupid now that im saying it and expecting her to honor paying it..lol)


Is the key there yet?


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> Is the key there yet?


Tell us when operation repo takes place.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> they are in my name...and they will not affect her at all is she doesn't pay them. it was an agreement we had (sounds so stupid now that im saying it and expecting her to honor paying it..lol)


the one mistake I made and regret was letting my X

transfer her CC accounts to mine once (2007)

guess what? she ran the same ones right back up

M and WC must be cousins....

whenever you put your foot down about CC overspending

did she run for victim chair

or was that one of the reasons she said you needed to change

but could not come out and say it in those words?

Dude be glad you rose from the ashes


----------



## unbe

Key received today. Operation welcome to the real world is set for first part of Feb. 

Finalized the paperwork today. Matchbox is being served at work within a couple of days. 

Gentleman start your engines.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Thought....

Felt numb finalizing everything. A little sadness started to come over me during this but I reconized it, put it back in its place and didn't let it affect me. 

Slipped to about 10k feet for a few moments there but got back up to where I needed to be
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Key received today. Operation welcome to the real world is set for first part of Feb.
> 
> Finalized the paperwork today. Matchbox is being served at work within a couple of days.
> 
> Gentleman start your engines.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are the cars mentioned in the paperwork?


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> th
> M and WC must be cousins....


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> they are in my name...and they will not affect her at all is she doesn't pay them. it was an agreement we had (sounds so stupid now that im saying it and expecting her to honor paying it..lol)



What kind of bills are we talking?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Are the cars mentioned in the paperwork?


They are both mentioned to be mine
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> What kind of bills are we talking?


Electric and cable. Along with her already dropping me from the car insurance which she was supposed to cover
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Electric and cable. Along with her already dropping me from the car insurance which she was supposed to cover
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Anything in her name you're covering?


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Anything in her name you're covering?


Drop any and all of those ASAP.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Drop any and all of those ASAP.


One credit card which im going to stop paying. Should I even mention it to her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> One credit card which im going to stop paying. Should I even mention it to her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, just pay what's in your name with the money you would have spent on her stuff.


----------



## LongWalk

unbe said:


> One credit card which im going to stop paying. Should I even mention it to her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You mean you will cancel it?


----------



## LongWalk

Also, please take a picture or two of operation repo, not with your face or license plate but give us a little flavor of the scene.


----------



## unbe

LongWalk said:


> You mean you will cancel it?


The cards been cut up. I'm just paying the balance. That was one of the bills I said I would pay
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> The cards been cut up. I'm just paying the balance. That was one of the bills I said I would pay
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Stop.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Stop.


Immediately


----------



## Conrad

We all want to see a picture of the matchbox car in "her" parking spot.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> One credit card which im going to stop paying. Should I even mention it to her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



No talk, just action.


----------



## Chuck71

You are having to do things you are not sure if it is right

the person you are doing this to

is the woman you were prepared to spend 50 years with

THAT person is long gone, farther gone than 8-tracks

I know you are hesitant at times, so was I

but review what she has done

I placed my not yet X (then) in a situation

which meant A-lifeline, peace offering or B-game over

her actions were B, I saw all I needed to know

and it was all over an electric bill

view her as you would a business partner

If you and I went into business and I tried to screw you over

would you allow me to? I didn't think so


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> You are having to do things you are not sure if it is right
> 
> the person you are doing this to
> 
> is the woman you were prepared to spend 50 years with
> 
> THAT person is long gone, farther gone than 8-tracks
> 
> I know you are hesitant at times, so was I
> 
> but review what she has done
> 
> I placed my not yet X (then) in a situation
> 
> which meant A-lifeline, peace offering or B-game over
> 
> her actions were B, I saw all I needed to know
> 
> and it was all over an electric bill
> 
> view her as you would a business partner
> 
> If you and I went into business and I tried to screw you over
> 
> would you allow me to? I didn't think so


great point.....i did see myself starting to slip over to the emotional side but quickly caught it and corrected it. 

now I have to sit back and watch her actions once she gets served...should be extremely interesting!!


----------



## unbe

ok boys...i just got served (figures I just finished all the paperwork to serve her yesterday!)

next move is sending to my lawyer and seeing what he says!


----------



## Chuck71

I would get the car TODAY, right NOW, YESTERDAY


----------



## unbe

I think it's time to launch the exposure email.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> I would get the car TODAY, right NOW, YESTERDAY


En route
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

Good filing first means nothing. Get the car. Expose her bs to the world.

Sign nothing until you run everything by your attorney.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

Found the car. Key not working!!!

Damn it

Next steps?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Good filing first means nothing. Get the car. Expose her bs to the world.
> 
> Sign nothing until you run everything by your attorney.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Sent him the ppwrk already
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

Def Leppard Rock! Rock! Till You Drop Music video - YouTube


----------



## unbe

im so pissed I didnt get to file first....ARGGGGGGGGGG


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> im so pissed I didnt get to file first....ARGGGGGGGGGG


You can still take control of this.

Don't lose your perspective.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> You can still take control of this.
> 
> Don't lose your perspective.


trying to stay focused...

thinking calling roadside and having them tow the car to the dealer. then getting the key programmed there.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> trying to stay focused...
> 
> thinking calling roadside and having them tow the car to the dealer. then getting the key programmed there.


Good plan.

Do that when you are reasonably sure she's away from the vehicle for several hours.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Good plan.
> 
> Do that when you are reasonably sure she's away from the vehicle for several hours.


not sure she can stop it from happening shes not on the reg or lease pprwrk


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> not sure she can stop it from happening shes not on the reg or lease pprwrk


I'm sure you're right.

I just want the key to be made before she calls the police.

And, she will.


----------



## Chuck71

3pm, 3am, no difference

this is YOUR message


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> 3pm, 3am, no difference
> 
> this is YOUR message


Here's hoping the matchbox car is the same make and model - and color


----------



## cbnero

Is there anything in the paperwork re: car already? I am sure it sucks but stay calm. Go to 50k if you are losing it. Put things in perspective. Make smart decisions based on logic not emotion.

Maybe getting the car isnt worth it, if it isnt, then pass on it. Being calm and confident will require a lot more than just the car. Are you going to expose at all?

Get ready for hardcore 180 and NC from here on out. Own your decisions from here on out, make sure yhey are good ones. Still a long time til this is over, dont forget that.

Just becasue you filed doesnt mean anything yet. Is she issuing a TCO or anything besides the inital filing? If not ask your attorney about taking her to court to make sure she pays you for her bills still in your name and such. Might be the next open move if its an option. 

Stay calm man. Filing first is no big deal. Believe me.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Is there anything in the paperwork re: car already? I am sure it sucks but stay calm. Go to 50k if you are losing it. Put things in perspective. Make smart decisions based on logic not emotion.
> 
> Maybe getting the car isnt worth it, if it isnt, then pass on it. Being calm and confident will require a lot more than just the car. Are you going to expose at all?
> 
> Get ready for hardcore 180 and NC from here on out. Own your decisions from here on out, make sure yhey are good ones. Still a long time til this is over, dont forget that.
> 
> Just becasue you filed doesnt mean anything yet. Is she issuing a TCO or anything besides the inital filing? If not ask your attorney about taking her to court to make sure she pays you for her bills still in your name and such. Might be the next open move if its an option.
> 
> Stay calm man. Filing first is no big deal. Believe me.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


thanks bro.

the only thing in the paperwork about the vehicles is

'equitable distro of any and all vehicles purchased during the marriage'

again i didn't sign anything I just got the paperwork

i want to expose but I kinda like having the bullet in my holster for the future.

I am going to try and get this key fixed prior to going down the tow route. She was home along with her step father, surprised neither one of them heard me. I started the car and it died once i put it into drive. My heart was jacked!!!

No TCO, just filing. Will mention to my lawyer who has yet to get back to me today. 

180 and NC will not break from my end....NO WAY


----------



## unbe

update:

taking a break from the chaos for a few days... lawyers are working, im laying low for the time being to get my head clear prior to making any other moves. 180 and NC still in force

things with CF are going great. We planned small two night trip for V-day. Actually had a discussion about taking it slow (physically) and shes on board and understands 100%. At the moment I decided to lay off any other females and see where this is going....I like everything I have seen so far


----------



## cbnero

unbe said:


> update:
> 
> taking a break from the chaos for a few days... lawyers are working, im laying low for the time being to get my head clear prior to making any other moves. 180 and NC still in force
> 
> things with CF are going great. We planned small two night trip for V-day. Actually had a discussion about taking it slow (physically) and shes on board and understands 100%. At the moment I decided to lay off any other females and see where this is going....I like everything I have seen so far



You are like an alcoholic thinking a few sips of booze wont hurt. The bottle of course understands. And is happy to wait and just be with you. 

You have it under control. What could possibly go wrong? It's totally different this time.

hmm.....

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

cbnero said:


> You are like an alcoholic thinking a few sips of booze wont hurt. The bottle of course understands. And is happy to wait and just be with you.
> 
> You have it under control. What could possibly go wrong? It's totally different this time.
> 
> hmm.....
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


CB is head strong.....does not work every time

but in this post :iagree: 200%


----------



## cbnero

Chuck71 said:


> cbnero said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are like an alcoholic thinking a few sips of booze wont hurt. The bottle of course understands. And is happy to wait and just be with you.
> 
> You have it under control. What could possibly go wrong? It's totally different this time.
> 
> hmm.....
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_
> 
> 
> 
> CB is head strong.....does not work every time
> 
> but in this post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 200%
Click to expand...

haha very true. Like a bull in a china shop! But then most business owners probably are viewed as complete a**holes when they mean business. Just watching out for him. I have 5 weeks to go... I could never date a woman that would date me right now... if that makes any sense. 

I will try and tone it down, sorry

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

Nothing wrong being head strong, I'm the same way

got it from both parents.....it can be a viable ally

I was one of the more hard liners on ReGroup's post over 2013

one connects on a deeper level with others going through the same thing

pop taught me the power

but Frank taught that....and finesse 

every poster needs both..... U B U


----------



## tom67

Something for the repo.

Mission Impossible TV show theme song - YouTube


----------



## unbe

Update

Had a great weekend. Been spending time with CF and discussing love languages, co dependency and other TAM topics. She gets it! 

Matchbox has been quite which can only mean on thing. Something is brewing. I'll be ready for it though. No matter what it is. 

The key is an issue for operation repo. Turns out I need the car there to program the key. This is becoming a hassle and I'm thinking to advise my lawyer to get it back. 

I haven't thought about matchbox at all other than getting the issue sorted out with money ( which I'm giving her nothing ) and pushing this trough already. 

Still doing reading ( re read nmmng) IC is going really well and slowly getting a hold of my pos tendencies.

Appreciate all your help getting me to this point... Only the beginning of my growth
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

Just gotta say, I personally think you're getting too involved with CF too fast.

Just my opinion. 

I don't aim to change your mind but I hope you think about it. 

People said the same to me when I got involved with S but that was a whole year after I separated.


----------



## ICLH

Ceegee said:


> Just gotta say, I personally think you're getting too involved with CF too fast.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> I don't aim to change your mind but I hope you think about it.
> 
> People said the same to me when I got involved with S but that was a whole year after I separated.


I might have to agree. Could you be using her as a crutch or distraction to keep your mind off of the divorce? That could hinder your recovery and not be fair for either of you in the long run.


----------



## unbe

i can see the concern and its certainly valid

i honestly don't feel it is a crutch at all. I am still working through my own issues and continuing to improve upon myself. 

Our relationship has not developed physically and I do not have plans on doing so for quite some time. For now we are enjoying doing things that make both of us happy...that's how I define taking things slow


----------



## cbnero

You could do fun stuff with your male buddies. You need to be alone.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Chuck71

I still crack a grin from what my running buddy and I did

from high school to years later

yes I was with 2nd love but....mine and his crazy stuff

epic.... lol


----------



## unbe

update:

things are quiet....went to IC yesterday and discussed CF and the speed of this. His advice, go with your gut...

No granted my gut had led me to matchbox so that may or may not be the best advice lol

I would like to grab some other things to read. I havent read MMSL yet, Im guessing I should??

I have had some brief moments of sadness and yurning for the 'good ole days' which usually last around 5 minutes. This is happening id say every other day. Nothing I cant manage though

that party is coming up on Saturday that I spoke about a few weeks ago...still not sure if I am going or not. there will be around 15 people there and 3 of them are really good friends of mine.


----------



## LongWalk

Go


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> update:
> 
> things are quiet....went to IC yesterday and discussed CF and the speed of this. His advice, go with your gut...
> 
> No granted my gut had led me to matchbox so that may or may not be the best advice lol
> 
> I would like to grab some other things to read. I havent read MMSL yet, Im guessing I should??
> 
> I have had some brief moments of sadness and yurning for the 'good ole days' which usually last around 5 minutes. This is happening id say every other day. Nothing I cant manage though
> 
> that party is coming up on Saturday that I spoke about a few weeks ago...still not sure if I am going or not. there will be around 15 people there and 3 of them are really good friends of mine.


FIRE your IC, he is a co-pay collector

find one who challenges you


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> update:
> 
> things are quiet....went to IC yesterday and discussed CF and the speed of this. His advice, go with your gut...
> 
> No granted my gut had led me to matchbox so that may or may not be the best advice lol
> 
> I would like to grab some other things to read. I havent read MMSL yet, Im guessing I should??
> 
> I have had some brief moments of sadness and yurning for the 'good ole days' which usually last around 5 minutes. This is happening id say every other day. Nothing I cant manage though
> 
> that party is coming up on Saturday that I spoke about a few weeks ago...still not sure if I am going or not. there will be around 15 people there and 3 of them are really good friends of mine.



Definitely read MMSLP. 

I'd go to the party.


----------



## unbe

Update

Went to the party. Shook hands with xfil exchanged pleasantries and that was it (what I expected). 

The surprising thing is, I was expecting to feel some sort of trigger, nothing came at all. 

The disconnect appears to be complete. 

Full steam ahead....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

update:

days go by...i think of matchbox every now and again. not really sure what is triggering me. I keep having thoughts of reaching out to her but will not allow myself to break NC just out of pure pride at this point. 

CF has been everything I could ask for. Shes an amazing women and I really like the way we are progressing.

IC continues, giving him a few more sessions to turn it around. If he doesnt, I need to find a new one.

Not a word from my lawyer in over 2 weeks, not sure what to make of that. I believe that if im paying someone to do a job, let them do it. 

Ill keep steady the path..... overcome the speed bumps as they come


----------



## AFPhoenix

Unbe,

Stay the course...don't give in to contacting her. I think you're reacting to seeing her a few days ago. It will pass. Now if I could follow my own advice.


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe,

I've been reading and following your thread. You're doing fine and your feelings are normal. Stay the course. We're all routing for you. 

Stay NC. Concern yourself only about you.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Stay the course...don't give in to contacting her. I think you're reacting to seeing her a few days ago. It will pass. Now if I could follow my own advice.


:lol: easier said than done

you're getting there!


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> update:
> 
> days go by...i think of matchbox every now and again. not really sure what is triggering me. I keep having thoughts of reaching out to her but will not allow myself to break NC just out of pure pride at this point.
> 
> CF has been everything I could ask for. Shes an amazing women and I really like the way we are progressing.
> 
> IC continues, giving him a few more sessions to turn it around. If he doesnt, I need to find a new one.
> 
> Not a word from my lawyer in over 2 weeks, not sure what to make of that. I believe that if im paying someone to do a job, let them do it.
> 
> Ill keep steady the path..... overcome the speed bumps as they come


Find an IFS Therapist


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> :lol: easier said than done
> 
> you're getting there!


I wont give in...theres no question about that.

I havent seen here in over 2 months now. I think had I been seeing her, this would have been much more difficult

I saw my stbxfil last week


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I wont give in...theres no question about that.
> 
> I havent seen here in over 2 months now. I think had I been seeing her, this would have been much more difficult
> 
> I saw my stbxfil last week


Any updates on Operation Matchbox?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Any updates on Operation Matchbox?


very tricky. only way to get this done is to tow the vehicle to a dealership, then have them program the key once its there. 

I haven't decided if it is worth the aggravation its going to cause me to get this done.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> very tricky. only way to get this done is to tow the vehicle to a dealership, then have them program the key once its there.
> 
> I haven't decided if it is worth the aggravation its going to cause me to get this done.


She's driving your car without insurance?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> She's driving your car without insurance?


no, she kept insurance on that car. she dropped the vehicle im driving from the policy and I had to get my own


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> no, she kept insurance on that car. she dropped the vehicle im driving from the policy and I had to get my own


That sounds much better.


----------



## Chuck71

I'm sure that car is worth the amount you could take a singles

cruise...or a trip to clear your head

just a thought


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> I'm sure that car is worth the amount you could take a singles
> 
> cruise...or a trip to clear your head
> 
> just a thought


unbe it's about the principal:lol:
She fired you let her bf get her a car.

Better yet have your gf drive it by her place.


----------



## unbe

the urge is getting stronger to contact matchbox. I think it may have to do with

1) Valentines day
2) My weekend trip coming up with CF
3) Getting the car back

Need a 2x4 smack!!


----------



## Chuck71

tell yourself

1) no
2) he!! no
3) he!! fvcking no

Conrad..... lumber please


----------



## unbe

Getting ready for my weekend with CF....starting a new chapter 

time to move on, time to get going, what lies ahead I have no way of knowing.....


----------



## unbe

and there it is...i knew it has been too quite.

just got a call from my laywer. matchbox filed a motion against him and he can no longer represent me as he did our taxes last year and is now considered a conflict of interest.

He is going to recommend to me a new laywer...shes got some good timing


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> and there it is...i knew it has been too quite.
> 
> just got a call from my laywer. matchbox filed a motion against him and he can no longer represent me as he did our taxes last year and is now considered a conflict of interest.
> 
> He is going to recommend to me a new laywer...shes got some good timing


You in a mood to drive?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> You in a mood to drive?


?


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> You in a mood to drive?


He means get the car back I know it's friday and all.


----------



## unbe

tom67 said:


> He means get the car back I know it's friday and all.


leaving for my trip in two hours...cant be going on that mission now.


----------



## Chuck71

report it stolen............ let your tax $ work for you


----------



## unbe

funny how i was missing her this week then this happens. its like a sign from god waking me the F up and reminding me who she really is


----------



## Chuck71

I'm sure she has been this way a good while

sometimes we see only what we wish to

when you turn towards the light

it's an eye opener


----------



## cbnero

Did you ever expose her? Do a quick nut check and start taking back control.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

OK wow, heres an update

Matchbox broke NC, asked to meet up with me and I did.

Matchbox completely broke down, admitted to her faults and wants to work it out. Has agreed to all of my requests (shes in scramble mode). It was sureal when I saw her, didn't quite know what to expect but went in very strong. Within minutes she broke....

I have agreed to see her and start 'dating' each other. I am cautiously entering into this as I have the feeling some of these factors are in play

1) Grass wasnt greener
2) The comfort blanket is gone financially
3) She missed and loves me

I need to figure out what the percentages are of these 3 items. 

We discussed briefly the divorce, she has contacted her lawyer and stopped it (or so she says). I havent done anything on my end

Need some feedback... This doesnt even seem real to be honest


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> OK wow, heres an update
> 
> Matchbox broke NC, asked to meet up with me and I did.
> 
> Matchbox completely broke down, admitted to her faults and wants to work it out. Has agreed to all of my requests (shes in scramble mode). It was sureal when I saw her, didn't quite know what to expect but went in very strong. Within minutes she broke....
> 
> I have agreed to see her and start 'dating' each other. I am cautiously entering into this as I have the feeling some of these factors are in play
> 
> 1) Grass wasnt greener
> 2) The comfort blanket is gone financially
> 3) She missed and loves me
> 
> I need to figure out what the percentages are of these 3 items.
> 
> We discussed briefly the divorce, she has contacted her lawyer and stopped it (or so she says). I havent done anything on my end
> 
> Need some feedback... This doesnt even seem real to be honest


Can you stay @50k? Or, are you tempted to immerse yourself in this?

Did she have sex with you?


----------



## tom67

unbe said:


> OK wow, heres an update
> 
> Matchbox broke NC, asked to meet up with me and I did.
> 
> Matchbox completely broke down, admitted to her faults and wants to work it out. Has agreed to all of my requests (shes in scramble mode). It was sureal when I saw her, didn't quite know what to expect but went in very strong. Within minutes she broke....
> 
> I have agreed to see her and start 'dating' each other. I am cautiously entering into this as I have the feeling some of these factors are in play
> 
> 1) Grass wasnt greener
> 2) The comfort blanket is gone financially
> 3) She missed and loves me
> 
> I need to figure out what the percentages are of these 3 items.
> 
> We discussed briefly the divorce, she has contacted her lawyer and stopped it (or so she says). I havent done anything on my end
> 
> Need some feedback... This doesnt even seem real to be honest


Do NOT make a rash decision she is on your timetable.
Remember what she put you through.
How could you ever trust her again.
She must have found out you are dating and enjoying life finally.
I think you're right this isn't real.


----------



## tom67

Please go back to the beginning of your thread and reread.
That could clear your head.


----------



## tom67

unbe said:


> Heres my story....
> 
> I have been divorced once already now about to enter into my second. The women I am married to now is the first person I met after my previous divorce. Both have lasted only 2 years (im 36)
> 
> When I first met my second wife, things couldn't have been better. I thought I had met my soul mate, she was everything I have ever imagined. We lived together for 2 years prior to getting engaged. These two years were perfect.
> 
> We got engaged and things started to get a little strange. I had a feeling that she may have been cheating on me ( I am insecure in nature). I did find some emails back and forth to an old boyfriend that seems harmless enough so I never addressed it.
> 
> We got married a year later and that's when the problems started. Almost a 6 months into the marriage she started complaining that I needed to change how I acted. That I wasn't 'nice' When I asked for examples she couldn't give me any. We wouldn't argue about it much but I did hear it often. Now I had asked her if I had changed from when we first met and she said no.
> 
> Anyway, moving forward things got progressively worse. She used to be the most affectionate person who would latch onto me like a leach. After about a year of marriage this dissipated to barley touching me at all. I had to initiate all contact.
> 
> She used to want to cook all the time, that stopped. Cleaning stopped. We have a dog toghther, she stopped caring for him.
> 
> She travled for work a previously however the trips seemd to pick up at the beginning of this year. The text message went unanswered for hours, same as phone calls.
> 
> One night she had got home from a business trip and went to bed as she was exacusted from traveling. I wsnt tired and decided to watch some tv in the other room. Her phone went off with a text from a guy she works with asking "how was the rest of your night". Now the text itself seemd harmless enough but the fact the there was no history behind the message started putting up red flags.
> 
> I did some digging and noticed mutilple calls and text message while she was away to this guy (also while I was asleep). Instead of comfronting her about this I decided to start ptrying to see if she wanted out (first mistake). This was in Feburary. We started talking and she said I wasn't the person she thought and wanted out. I asked her to tell me when was needed, how can I fix this. I was in scramble mode to try and make this marriage work. She said she needed time to figure things out so I moved out.
> 
> I was out for a week and during this time I was watching to see if she would contact him, which she did. That night we were separated she was with him!!! I tried to convienence myself that maybe she was breaking it off or maybe he really was just a friend.
> 
> After the week she asked me to come home and she wanted to work on it. We started marriage consuling
> 
> During the consuling she had descrbied how I needed to change, that I didn't like to do the same things she did. She did feel financially secure because we lived a very fly by the moment life (5-6 trips per year, shopping sprees). Mind you these were the exact things she loived about me just a year ago.
> 
> So I started to change, I made drastic changes. So drastic to the point the our therapist wanted to write a book about it. I did everything I could to be the man she wanted be to be now. Even though it was against my will.
> 
> Things were good for a few months. We had moved out of our place for a few mnths to live near the beach for the summer and had a great few months,
> 
> The second we came back to our home things got worse. (We live in the city and she works a few blocks away, with him). My suspensions started up again that she had reconnected with him.
> 
> Before you new it we stopped going to therapy (she refused to go as she thought the therapist was on my side). Things went back to the way there were at the beginning of the year.
> 
> I comforted her about it two months ago and said I wasn't happy. She said she didn't want to work on it because we are too different and she didn't thinkg therapy would work. I explained that this was a marriage and we need to give it every chance, lets go to another theaprist. She said ok and would research it, that never happened.
> 
> Travleing started again, we went on some trips toghther ( I had a business trip she met me on and we had our anniversary so we went away for that). Things were ok, not great.
> 
> She had went on a trip for work about a month ago, when she came back all touching stopped. I mean all touching....
> 
> She would wait till I went to bed then she went to sleep
> 
> All the signs, I couldn't ignore it anymore
> 
> I comforted her again saying I wasn't happy but still wanted to work on it. She said now she wanted a divorce, it cant be worked on. I then did confront her about the text/phone calls and she just smirked.
> 
> I said ok, and told her to leave. She has moved out.
> 
> She is supposed to be sending me the paperwork however I haven't recieve it yet. I have not spoken with her since she left.
> 
> That brings us to the present. I am angry on so many levels, even typing this makes me angrier. I am also sad that I have another failed marriage.
> 
> I am waiting for her to send paperwork which seems dumb, should I just send her? We don't have kids or own property so its not going to be messy. I think I don't want to send it because I don't want it to be over although I know it needs to end.
> 
> I keep going back to the person I met and how I would give anything and do anything to be with that person. I also realize that person is never coming back.
> 
> Thank you for reading my long rant....Any feedback/advice is greatly appreciated.


Here first post.
You don't want this again right?


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe,

Be very careful. After dday#1 she didn't want the divorce I initiated. I had my lawyer stop process. 6 months later after dday#2 she divorced me TODAY.

Just saying.


----------



## tom67

Pictureless said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Be very careful. After dday#1 she didn't want the divorce I initiated. I had my lawyer stop process. 6 months later after dday#2 she divorced me TODAY.
> 
> Just saying.


Think about it.:iagree:


----------



## ThreeStrikes

My guess is that PosOM broke it off with her.


----------



## cbnero

I would reread your entire thread through today. Get to 50k. Dont slide back on the changes you made and then think carefully before making any decisions.

possible congrats though. If R is what you decide to do. Stay strong brother

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## GutPunch

Love spat with posom. You better wake the f up and get back to 50,000 ft. She talks to you one time and you are already stopping the divorce and laying out terms for R. Get out of the weeds man. Answer Conrad's question. 

GP


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe,

Let me tell you how fun it was to see her in court today after she dumped me AGAIN. She was wearing the jacket I bought her 5 days before dday#2. Also had on the boots, gold earrings, and watch I bought her. 

For 12 years of love and devotion to her today I got a "good morning" from her as she walked by me like she never knew me.


----------



## cbnero

What has she done to fix herself? Words are easy. Real change is not. I would be cautious.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## AFPhoenix

DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER. Tread softly and guard your heart. I believe in R when it's warranted. Like the others have said, look back at the beginning of your posts and try to channel your feelings.


----------



## Thjor

Unbe

I agree with everyone here. Tread carefully. But only you know if this will really work. You know her better than we do. If it works fantastic. I am in the same boat right now. This will be my 2nd divorce if it happens or doesn't. Only time will tell.


----------



## unbe

Gents thank you for the feedback. 

Staying at 50k is a must now and will be essential. 

To be clear I didn't stop the divorce, she did. 

She needs to prove to me that she has changed and it starts with actions from this point forward 

I always wanted an R with her. But this time it's on my terms and I'm writing the script for this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Can you stay @50k? Or, are you tempted to immerse yourself in this?
> 
> Did she have sex with you?


She did have sex with me. Im at 50k now but staying there is going to be a challenge. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

tom67 said:


> Do NOT make a rash decision she is on your timetable.
> Remember what she put you through.
> How could you ever trust her again.
> She must have found out you are dating and enjoying life finally.
> I think you're right this isn't real.


She admitted finally to everything so that's a start towards trusting her again 

Time is the only thing I can take now to see if this is real
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> My guess is that PosOM broke it off with her.


Can add this to the list of my assumptions. Although I think this may have happened a few weeks ago
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> She did have sex with me. Im at 50k now but staying there is going to be a challenge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Felt like a conquering hero, didn't you?

(Perfectly normal to say yes)


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Felt like a conquering hero, didn't you?
> 
> (Perfectly normal to say yes)


Want the truth. I was very apprehensive about it. My guard is up!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Want the truth. I was very apprehensive about it. My guard is up!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No problem there. I got the same speech the first time she came back. And, I bought it whole hog. Lapsed right back into codependence.

My old pal Mavi chortled, "You got played"

She was right.

There's something therapeutic about this. You didn't really know how bad things were when she dumped you. Now, you do.

And, you can proceed with eyes wide open.

Liberating, but scary.

This will be different than anything you've had with her before.

And, there's no way to know how it turns out.

So, don't try.

It's like you're meeting her for the first time.

But, you're legally married.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> No problem there. I got the same speech the first time she came back. And, I bought it whole hog. Lapsed right back into codependence.
> 
> My old pal Mavi chortled, "You got played"
> 
> She was right.
> 
> There's something therapeutic about this. You didn't really know how bad things were when she dumped you. Now, you do.
> 
> And, you can proceed with eyes wide open.
> 
> Liberating, but scary.
> 
> This will be different than anything you've had with her before.
> 
> And, there's no way to know how it turns out.
> 
> So, don't try.
> 
> It's like you're meeting her for the first time.
> 
> But, you're legally married.


I suggested that we completely start from the begging. Start dating each other, getting to re know each other and see where it goes. 

That's the level of commitment I'm prepared to give her and that's all
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I suggested that we completely start from the begging. Start dating each other, getting to re know each other and see where it goes.
> 
> That's the level of commitment I'm prepared to give her and that's all
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you ready to launch CF?


----------



## cbnero

I still vote to steal her car back tomorrow.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Are you ready to launch CF?


I don't see any other choice. At this time she doesn't stand a chance and honestly keeping her around is completely unfair to her and selfish of me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I don't see any other choice. At this time she doesn't stand a chance and honestly keeping her around is completely unfair to her and selfish of me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did Matchbox ask you about it?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Did Matchbox ask you about it?


She didn't ask but I did tell her about her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> She didn't ask but I did tell her about her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that's TMI.

There are things she needs to discover.

She'll be ready to hear the answer when she asks.

This may be the toughest part of this for you.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> I think that's TMI.
> 
> There are things she needs to discover.
> 
> She'll be ready to hear the answer when she asks.
> 
> This may be the toughest part of this for you.


Noted. Discretion from here on out. 

On a side note. Ending it with CF? Right move. I didn't tell matchbox about me ending it. I just told her I was dating her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Noted. Discretion from here on out.
> 
> On a side note. Ending it with CF? Right move.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell her the truth.

You want to take a break and do not expect her to wait.

But, also assure her that your feelings for her are real.


----------



## unbe

Was how I was going to handle it. Thanks Conrad


Being fitness tested by matchbox already?

Supposed to go to dinner this weekend in the city and she's asking that I stay over night with her in a hotel. Offered to pay for it (that's a first and she will be if I accept the invitation)

Thoughts about this? 

Do I want to: yea
Does it feel odd: a little
Is it the right thing to do: ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> and there it is...i knew it has been too quite.
> 
> just got a call from my laywer. matchbox filed a motion against him and he can no longer represent me as he did our taxes last year and is now considered a conflict of interest.
> 
> He is going to recommend to me a new laywer...shes got some good timing



Why don't you hire this guy?

View attachment 17114


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Was how I was going to handle it. Thanks Conrad
> 
> 
> Being fitness tested by matchbox already?
> 
> Supposed to go to dinner this weekend in the city and she's asking that I stay over night with her in a hotel. Offered to pay for it (that's a first and she will be if I accept the invitation)
> 
> Thoughts about this?
> 
> Do I want to: yea
> Does it feel odd: a little
> Is it the right thing to do: ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you want to, say yes.

And, keep your wallet clamped shut.

Her show.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> If you want to, say yes.
> 
> And, keep your wallet clamped shut.
> 
> Her show.


:iagree:
Heavy lifting/ACTIONS not words.
Stay focused and for now frosty like you are more than willing to move on with out her.
Conrad can remind you of the fitness/sh!t tests.
In my opinion, ic for her would be mandatory.
Good luck.
MMSLP asap.


----------



## tom67

Damn I wanted to hear about the repo adventure.
Oh well.

Just one thing to consider, do you trust gf more than your wife.
Food for thought.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> She did have sex with me. Im at 50k now but staying there is going to be a challenge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


GP help him out here on your experience last year


----------



## Chuck71

I'm going to be the a$$hole here

what about this....since both of you saw the marriage as dead

kill it....full steam ahead on D, but date, reacquaint 

kill the dead M and start a new one, M that day or next

there are reasons behind bringing this up

just think about it....

and unbe.....read my posts on my blog about my

1st and 2nd love, the break up, etc

my X was the first one I walked away from and never 

looked back

my pop got D one day, M the next :rofl:

and neither was my mom


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> I'm going to be the a$$hole here
> 
> what about this....since both of you saw the marriage as dead
> 
> kill it....full steam ahead on D, but date, reacquaint
> 
> kill the dead M and start a new one, M that day or next
> 
> there are reasons behind bringing this up
> 
> just think about it....
> 
> and unbe.....read my posts on my blog about my
> 
> 1st and 2nd love, the break up, etc
> 
> my X was the first one I walked away from and never
> 
> looked back
> 
> my pop got D one day, M the next :rofl:
> 
> and neither was my mom


Respond do not react you won't regret it.


----------



## Chuck71

if a R is what you want, you must follow your heart

BUT...... you need to place traps out

to see if she is legit or running from the premise

of being alone and financially strapped

unbe.... guys on this board have seen false R many times

the traps I speak of are similar to "trust but verify"

my "still then W" played the "I still miss you" card

between filing date and final, I laid out a foolproof trap

she took it......it hurt when I saw her reaction

BUT "I did not hear what I wanted to, I heard what I 

needed to" I even ripped up the non-negotiable on the 

coffee table.

Many M can be saved but it takes TWO people

we're all rooting for you, we just don't want you to

get sucked into the washing machine and end up back at 

square one...... in the fall of '14


----------



## cbnero

All kidding aside I served the Ayatollah in July 2013. She came crawling back of course. So I pulled it. 

Came home to the house emptied out as soon as she got her new high paying job in Nov.

I am 2 weeks away from D now. But it was MUCH more painful the 2nd time she left and I would have been done with this months ago had I stayed firm.

Food for thought...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Read up on hoovering. Start here:

When Toxic People Start Hoovering – A Blog About Toxic and Non-Toxic People

Like Conrad said: "Eyes wide open".

Don't be played.


----------



## GotLifeBack

ThreeStrikes said:


> Read up on hoovering. Start here:
> 
> When Toxic People Start Hoovering – A Blog About Toxic and Non-Toxic People
> 
> Like Conrad said: "Eyes wide open".
> 
> Don't be played.


This.

Speaking from experience, if you allow the hoovering ultimately it will impact on your progress and emotional well being.

The best thing you can do for yourself is to deflect any attempts by ignoring it. It took me a few goes around the circle of headf*ck to learn this one, despite all the advice I was given, but it's a lesson that's stuck.


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe, the only difference between yours and mine is that yours openly destroyed your heart with POSOM; and now yours wants R because she has nothing to lose, mine wanted R to decide between me and POSOM.

So she boinked you and says shes stopping divorce. Big deal she already rejected you and she will do it again if she thinks she can find greener grass.

I told mine during R the slate is clean, win me back-show me. She didn't. 

I think you should move on. Pull the plug on this. How can you trust her again? How can you really love someone if you have to keep part of yourself on guard in case you have to dump her in order to protect yourself?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

1. There's a possibility that she ran back to Unbe (plan B) because OM (plan A) dumped her.

2. There's a possibility that she truly regrets her affair, and genuinely wants to R.

3. There's a possibility that this is simply an episode of hoovering.

I doubt #2, because she didn't come back until after her relationship with OM ended.

Unbe, I took back my ex after her first two affairs. I finally got the hint after affair #3. However, I didn't have the benefit of TAM at the time. 

So, once again: Eyes Wide Open. 50K.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> If you want to, say yes.
> 
> And, keep your wallet clamped shut.
> 
> Her show.


I am leaning towards no. My initial instinct said to say no


----------



## unbe

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> Heavy lifting/ACTIONS not words.
> Stay focused and for now frosty like you are more than willing to move on with out her.
> Conrad can remind you of the fitness/sh!t tests.
> In my opinion, ic for her would be mandatory.
> Good luck.
> MMSLP asap.


We are both in IC...MMSLP Im about 80% through it


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> if a R is what you want, you must follow your heart
> 
> BUT...... you need to place traps out
> 
> to see if she is legit or running from the premise
> 
> of being alone and financially strapped
> 
> unbe.... guys on this board have seen false R many times
> 
> the traps I speak of are similar to "trust but verify"
> 
> my "still then W" played the "I still miss you" card
> 
> between filing date and final, I laid out a foolproof trap
> 
> she took it......it hurt when I saw her reaction
> 
> BUT "I did not hear what I wanted to, I heard what I
> 
> needed to" I even ripped up the non-negotiable on the
> 
> coffee table.
> 
> Many M can be saved but it takes TWO people
> 
> we're all rooting for you, we just don't want you to
> 
> get sucked into the washing machine and end up back at
> 
> square one...... in the fall of '14


hear you my friend...just have to work on what these traps are going to look like.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Are both of you seeing the same IC?


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Are both of you seeing the same IC?


no.


----------



## unbe

Pictureless said:


> Unbe, the only difference between yours and mine is that yours openly destroyed your heart with POSOM; and now yours wants R because she has nothing to lose, mine wanted R to decide between me and POSOM.
> 
> So she boinked you and says shes stopping divorce. Big deal she already rejected you and she will do it again if she thinks she can find greener grass.
> 
> I told mine during R the slate is clean, win me back-show me. She didn't.
> 
> I think you should move on. Pull the plug on this. How can you trust her again? How can you really love someone if you have to keep part of yourself on guard in case you have to dump her in order to protect yourself?


makes sense pic. i advised the same as whipping the slate clean and taking it from there. so i guess its a wait and see. And yes, my guard is up now. To see if I can let it down will remain to be seen


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> makes sense pic. i advised the same as whipping the slate clean and taking it from there. so i guess its a wait and see. And yes, my guard is up now. To see if I can let it down will remain to be seen


I don't agree with pic's characterization.

A woman who is "choosing" between her husband (who she knows) and posOM (the relationship is new and exciting) will choose posOM 99% plus.

That's why crushing the affair and exposure are so important.

posOM is a gallant hero in secret.

When his dirty deads get the bleach of sunshine, he's panicked and makes emotionally driven mistakes - just like the rest of us.

The bloom comes off that pile of manure pretty quick.


----------



## Betrayedone

Remember, if you let the GF go, you will likely never get her back again. You can't cake eat on this. You will lose her. I do not trust the wife and think you are ultimately going to get set up for a bigger hurt! Move on......


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe,

I agree with what Conrad is saying about a wife choosing between the new and exciting and the old and familiar. 

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting you allow her to make that choice. She already made that choice. Remember? 

I'm saying the choice is yours now. If it was me I'd move on from her. You know what she's already done and what she's capable of doing. You've already put the work in. Move on.


----------



## Conrad

There's this little issue about physical attraction.

He has it for her.

She still has it for him.

And, that's not such a little issue.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Conrad said:


> There's this little issue about physical attraction.
> 
> He has it for her.
> 
> She still has it for him.
> 
> And, that's not such a little issue.


Animal attraction is powerful. 

But, thinking like this can lead to idealization...that she's "the one".

There are multitudes of attractive, single women out there. 

Breaking the sexual attachment to a disordered, lying, cheating spouse can be tough for a guy. It's why it took me three times


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> There's this little issue about physical attraction.
> 
> He has it for her.
> 
> She still has it for him.
> 
> And, that's not such a little issue.


I agree that this exist and im really hoping im not making any decisions with this solely in mind. 

I cant walk away until I can do so without regrets...I am not there.







Yet.....


----------



## GotLifeBack

Unbe,

If you haven't already, I'd suggest you read my thread. You may see some very familiar things.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> I agree that this exist and im really hoping im not making any decisions with this solely in mind.
> 
> I cant walk away until I can do so without regrets...I am not there.
> 
> Yet.....


You don't know how she'll respond now that you've woken up.

And, there's only one way to know.


----------



## Conrad

WantWifeBack said:


> Unbe,
> 
> If you haven't already, I'd suggest you read my thread. You may see some very familiar things.


WWB,

Did yours come back and bang you?


----------



## Chuck71

It was perfectly ok for her to walk away and leave you in misery

but with posom out of picture, she wants security

she sees it as not allowed for you to move on and her left in misery

a female does not have to see you with someone else

they just know it when your heart is being pulled

it is a deep bruise to her ego, esp. after posom left her

after my 1st and 2nd love break ups, all I wanted was get back together

they blew me off so I moved on... was dating someone else

both ran through mountains to get me back

it was great getting back together but....it never was the same

in both cases I later regretted not moving on then

Conrad is right about 99% women will go for new and exciting

many times the man prefers territory they are familiar with

listen to Conrad and 3X, they have been there, 

I could never forgive her but I'm not Unbe

all I can say is "what I would do" ..... C-rad and 3X have lived it

also read Gut Punched's thread, she cheated and he had a hard time 

taking her back


----------



## GutPunch

Chuck71 said:


> It was perfectly ok for her to walk away and leave you in misery
> 
> but with posom out of picture, she wants security
> 
> she sees it as not allowed for you to move on and her left in misery
> 
> a female does not have to see you with someone else
> 
> they just know it when your heart is being pulled
> 
> it is a deep bruise to her ego, esp. after posom left her
> 
> after my 1st and 2nd love break ups, all I wanted was get back together
> 
> they blew me off so I moved on... was dating someone else
> 
> both ran through mountains to get me back
> 
> it was great getting back together but....it never was the same
> 
> in both cases I later regretted not moving on then
> 
> Conrad is right about 99% women will go for new and exciting
> 
> many times the man prefers territory they are familiar with
> 
> listen to Conrad and 3X, they have been there,
> 
> I could never forgive her but I'm not Unbe
> 
> all I can say is "what I would do" ..... C-rad and 3X have lived it
> 
> also read Gut Punched's thread, she cheated and he had a hard time
> 
> taking her back



...and I still have nightmares about being Plan B and that was more than a year ago and my wife has done nothing to give me a reason to think this way. 


Unbe what is your dam* hurry to do anything. Tell your wife that you are dating someone and it's up to her to win you win back. Then be honest with CF. She may end it but that's ok Matchbox don't need to know unless she asks. 

I reconciled with my wife but she called me every night from rehab for three months. She went thru extensive counseling. I mean extensive. She is still in IC and MC.

Is it Rookie4 who got divorced and started dating the wife and others afterwards? Find his thread. 

Get out of the weeds Unbe. I'm all for a good R but you better not make it this easy.


----------



## unbe

GutPunch said:


> ...and I still have nightmares about being Plan B and that was more than a year ago and my wife has done nothing to give me a reason to think this way.
> 
> 
> Unbe what is your dam* hurry to do anything. Tell your wife that you are dating someone and it's up to her to win you win back. Then be honest with CF. She may end it but that's ok Matchbox don't need to know unless she asks.
> 
> I reconciled with my wife but she called me every night from rehab for three months. She went thru extensive counseling. I mean extensive. She is still in IC and MC.
> 
> Is it Rookie4 who got divorced and started dating the wife and others afterwards? Find his thread.
> 
> Get out of the weeds Unbe. I'm all for a good R but you better not make it this easy.



it will not be easy by any stretch. I did have the discussion with CF and she understandably didn't want to be in the middle of this so we ended it. Matchbox will not find out about this however


----------



## LongWalk

Any R has to be based on genuine remorse from the WS. Read Carlton's thread. His ex WW is putting out feelers to get him back but she has her mountain of pride there. The two of them were at their child's basketball game and she said that he had been to abrupt in divorcing her once he found out she was cheating. She also added that he had lost weight and was dressing better.

He half wishes she would beg for him to R, but then he might be tempted. She didn't realize that he actually has written down a list of all the reasons he had to divorce her, just to have handy in the event she started wheedling her way back into his heart. Her desire to get him back came after he started dating.

She even went through his overnight bag, checking for condoms. It's amazing how DNA competition occurs.


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> She even went through his overnight bag, checking condoms.



Wow! they're D, living apart, he is dating

let me guess, she never admitted any wrongdoings


----------



## ICLH

A few years ago a friend of mine confided in me and told me that his wife had left him for another woman down the street and had been living with her for 2 years. I was blown away. I thought they were happily married. They had the house with the white picket fence and two wonderful children (one with severe disabilities). He was madly in love with her and she treated him like a puppet. I asked him how he could he live with such a secret for 2 years? He said she begged him not to tell anyone because she wasn't ready to come out of the closet yet and that she didn't want to disrupt the children's lives. So he lived as if they were still married and took care of the children 80% of time while she was out with her lesbian lover having the time of her life. 

A couple of times he stepped out and began to date and each time she'd find out about "another woman" being in the picture she'd run back to him acting as if she was ready to reconcile (which was what he desperately wanted) and he'd drop the other women. As soon, as he'd drop the other women she'd run back down the street to the OW. He finally called her out on it and this is what she said, "I want you to be happy. I really do. Just not with someone else." How's that for an answer? 

I'm a female and I believe both genders can be guilty of this type of behavior. When you see an ex that you left in the dust moving on it can drive the ego crazy. You've dropped the GF in hopes of reconciliation which may be exactly what your wife wanted. I'd test her. I'd cancel the trip and the hotel room offer and wait a few days to see if she is still interested in proceeding with the reconciliation. She may wait for a couple weeks just to make sure the GF isn't attempting to stay in the picture before she starts distancing herself from you again. For your sake, I hope that isn't the case but keep your guard up. Best wishes!


----------



## Conrad

I have a more male-oriented idea.

Go there, let her pay for the room, but make certain the sex pleases him. Take her.

Observe how she responds.

I'd be willing to bet unbe has been one of those "attentive guys" who makes sure it's good for her.

Lose that in the hotel. Use your edge.


----------



## Chuck71

the key is if it is a trap, spring it ASAP


----------



## unbe

this thread was dieing, at least this gave it some action. lol

conrad, I am definatley that type. Although I enjoyed it I was always putting her needs first.

the other night was just animalistic in nature, prob the best sex I have ever had


----------



## tom67

unbe said:


> this thread was dieing, at least this gave it some action. lol
> 
> conrad, I am definatley that type. Although I enjoyed it I was always putting her needs first.
> 
> the other night was just animalistic in nature, prob the best sex I have ever had


It's called hysterical bonding taking back what's yours so to speak.
It's normal.


----------



## GutPunch

unbe said:


> this thread was dieing, at least this gave it some action. lol
> 
> conrad, I am definatley that type. Although I enjoyed it I was always putting her needs first.
> 
> the other night was just animalistic in nature, prob the best sex I have ever had


Something doesn't sit well with me.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> this thread was dieing, at least this gave it some action. lol
> 
> conrad, I am definatley that type. Although I enjoyed it I was always putting her needs first.
> 
> the other night was just animalistic in nature, prob the best sex I have ever had


And, you want more of that.


----------



## LongWalk

Maybe this thread is going to stretch out like ReGroup's.


----------



## Conrad

LongWalk said:


> Maybe this thread is going to stretch out like ReGroup's.


Depends on her next move.


----------



## Chuck71

LongWalk said:


> Maybe this thread is going to stretch out like ReGroup's.


:rofl: there is no one like QL

thank God for that


----------



## unbe

GutPunch said:


> Something doesn't sit well with me.


Gut elaborate please
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

I can tell you guys this. My guard is up and something doesn't add up for me either. Eyes are wide open though!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cbnero

unbe said:


> I can tell you guys this. My guard is up and something doesn't add up for me either. Eyes are wide open though!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did she say she loves you? What reason did she have for changing her mind? Did she offer all email/phone/text records?

Her last move was to block your attorney from representing you. What changed in the last week?

I dont get it. She was clearly gone. Now she is back... okay so then were you just Plan B? Are you okay with that?

Hope you can get some answers and this isnt just a false R surfacing. I would be extremely skeptical and heavily guard your emotions. Keep those boundaries up and stay at 50k until you get more info.

Wanting to come home doesnt prove anything yet. Be careful bro.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Did she say she loves you? What reason did she have for changing her mind? Did she offer all email/phone/text records?
> 
> Her last move was to block your attorney from representing you. What changed in the last week?
> 
> I dont get it. She was clearly gone. Now she is back... okay so then were you just Plan B? Are you okay with that?
> 
> Hope you can get some answers and this isnt just a false R surfacing. I would be extremely skeptical and heavily guard your emotions. Keep those boundaries up and stay at 50k until you get more info.
> 
> Wanting to come home doesnt prove anything yet. Be careful bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She did say she loved me and continues to do so. She has offered up all emails and text/calls history. I haven't gone through them as of yet.
> 
> I need time to smoke this out. Unfortunately patience is not one of my virtues. She did say the attorney was basically running her which I can see knowing her personality.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pictureless

unbe said:


> I can tell you guys this. My guard is up and something doesn't add up for me either. Eyes are wide open though!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That means you're not getting the whole truth.

She showed you already what you mean to her. 

What has changed? Nothing.

Coming back and banging you is nothing. She'll gladly do that until she decides to bail on you again.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

I went back and read your first post. 

I have concerns that this is a hoover-move.

How you feel now, after that hysterical bonding sex, is just like you felt when she was your 'soul-mate' early on. But she flipped on you once she got a commitment. Very much like my ex. Very much like several of the guys' exes here.

I'm afraid this is going to be a temporary behavior change. Disordered folks are experts at mirroring and playing the chameleon. Also, disordered folks can't stand to be alone. PosOM leaves her, and she bolts back to you.

Make these your requirements for R: 

You each live alone, independently. You each support yourself financially. You don't date other people. You each get IC. For 6 months.

See how long she lasts. If she can do it, then re-commit with a pre-nup.


----------



## happyman64

unbe said:


> I can tell you guys this. My guard is up and something doesn't add up for me either. Eyes are wide open though!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


unbe

Get a var and put it in her car.

Hide it good.

Give it a few days and then go listen to her conversations.

Don't you think it would be interesting to hear what she says about you and her life now???

Never tell her about the var.

It is to inform you and help you know what she is truly thinking.

HM


----------



## unbe

happyman64 said:


> unbe
> 
> Get a var and put it in her car.
> 
> Hide it good.
> 
> Give it a few days and then go listen to her conversations.
> 
> Don't you think it would be interesting to hear what she says about you and her life now???
> 
> Never tell her about the var.
> 
> It is to inform you and help you know what she is truly thinking.
> 
> HM


Love this. Any links to a good var?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

unbe said:


> Love this. Any links to a good var?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


here
Amazon.com : Sony Digital Flash Voice Recorder (ICD-PX312) : Electronics


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> That means you're not getting the whole truth.
> 
> She showed you already what you mean to her.
> 
> What has changed? Nothing.
> 
> Coming back and banging you is nothing. She'll gladly do that until she decides to bail on you again.


It's not nothing if you're the one she's banging.


----------



## helolover

Conrad said:


> ....... Use your edge.


And a condom....


----------



## Conrad

helolover said:


> And a condom....


Sends the right message.

If she says she wants you to stop, tell her to show you her negative STD test.

This is a totally alpha move.

Do it.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> It's not nothing if you're the one she's banging.


That impresses you? Who cares! She bangs whoever she wants. She's showed us all this. Ok, enjoy until new Plan A comes along.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Sends the right message.
> 
> If she says she wants you to stop, tell her to show you her negative STD test.
> 
> This is a totally alpha move.
> 
> Do it.


Total beta move! She came back because you moved on and it didn't kill you. That's Alpha. 

Slipping on a condom. Sending messages. Playing games. You're lowering yourself to her level. 

Unbe, you do what you wish. I hope it works out for you. But you're not going to great sex a cheater into changing their ways.


----------



## LongWalk

VAR the car


----------



## Chuck71

Pictureless said:


> Total beta move! She came back because you moved on and it didn't kill you. That's Alpha.
> 
> Slipping on a condom. Sending messages. Playing games. You're lowering yourself to her level.
> 
> Unbe, you do what you wish. I hope it works out for you. But you're not going to great sex a cheater into changing their ways.


the condom and STD test is treating her as the wh0re she was/is

it's called accountability


----------



## GotLifeBack

Conrad said:


> WWB,
> 
> Did yours come back and bang you?


She came back several times for sexual contact, but not full penetrative sex. Oral, touching, some light bondage etc was frequent during her visits.

When I spoke about the similarities, I was referring to the hoovering in general.


----------



## Pictureless

Chuck71 said:


> the condom and STD test is treating her as the wh0re she was/is
> 
> it's called accountability


That goes without saying. The point is why sleep with a wh0re? Why go back? The definition of insanity. ..


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Pictureless said:


> That goes without saying. The point is why sleep with a wh0re? Why go back? The definition of insanity. ..


I tend to agree, given this:

1.) Only married 2 years
2.) Batsh!t crazy behavior from almost the beginning
3.) Lying, cheating 
4.) Is suddenly in love with Unbe, but only because OM is gone.

There's a pattern of disordered behavior here that will make a successful LTR very difficult.

I'd throw her back in the pond and start anew.

But this is Unbe's journey, and as we've seen over and over here, many guys need to get burned more than once before they feel enough pain to wake up.


----------



## GutPunch

Pictureless said:


> That goes without saying. The point is why sleep with a wh0re? Why go back? The definition of insanity. ..


You are missing the point. Why? Because he is still desires her. I know we all see the red flags. Is he plan B? Probably. 

However, this is Unbe's life not ours. He gets to learn and make his own mistakes. While I wish he would have moved a little slower and kept his gf and such instead of diving off the cliff the first time she raised her skirt up. 

Good luck Unbe and get a 



VAR


----------



## unbe

GutPunch said:


> You are missing the point. Why? Because he is still desires her. I know we all see the red flags. Is he plan B? Probably.
> 
> However, this is Unbe's life not ours. He gets to learn and make his own mistakes. While I wish he would have moved a little slower and kept his gf and such instead of diving off the cliff the first time she raised her skirt up.
> 
> Good luck Unbe and get a
> 
> 
> 
> VAR




var is en route to me.

would have preferred to keep CF but her choice was to not be involved in this and I 1000% understand where she is coming from.

I am certainly plan A now from what I can see. Time and actions will tell. I am not opening up to her yet


----------



## GotLifeBack

unbe said:


> var is en route to me.
> 
> would have preferred to keep CF but her choice was to not be involved in this and I 1000% understand where she is coming from.
> 
> I am certainly plan A now from what I can see. Time and actions will tell. I am not opening up to her yet


Plan B cannot become Plan A.

If you've ever been Plan B, you are not Plan A.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

People like her don't think in terms of Plan A or B.

They just need someone to play a role. An important role in their life that they *need*. You don't see gals like her living alone, for this reason in particular.

The actors change, but the role remains. When Mrs. Unbe gets bored with an actor, she'll find a new one.

Unbe gets the part for now. But, since he's already played the role, I suspect she will get bored again quickly.


----------



## unbe

update: met with matchbox last night for coffee. wound up talking for hours about the mistakes we made and changes that are being promised and ways to make sure this never happens again.

she keeps tell me she needs me to be happy (red flag). I am setting up a boundary here with her and saying she needs to find happiness in herself and not count on me for it. Will be passing along Co dependent no more to her soon.

One thing I have learned, I never spoke her love language which I take full responsibility for and am now applying fully. 

I also take responsibility for my co dependency and and still working on that.

I will not take ANY responsibility for her straying to an EA (which is what has been admitted). That was her choice, no matter how bad I may have acted. Made this quite clear and will continue to do so.

I am re-writing my life script and she can either choose to be part of it or not.

Sum it up, my life used to be all about her. Now, my life is about me and if she wants to be part of it....put up or GTFO


----------



## unbe

also, shes saying all the right things. is extremely insecure at this time which is not like her at all. has offered to pay for numerous things which is not like her at all. has been very affectionate 

honestly, i like it


----------



## AFPhoenix

Is it an act? My STBXW (Raider) was/is an incredible actress/temptress.


----------



## unbe

AFPhoenix said:


> Is it an act? My STBXW (Raider) was/is an incredible actress/temptress.


only well I can see in telling....TIME


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe,

I like what I'm hearing-from you. NMMNG, NUT's, boundaries and codependent no more. 

I honestly hope it works out for you. I'm routing for you.


----------



## GutPunch

unbe said:


> I will not take ANY responsibility for her straying to an EA (which is what has been admitted).


I wouldn't consider R without hearing the truth out of her mouth.

EA my a$$


----------



## tom67

gutpunch said:


> i wouldn't consider r without hearing the truth out of her mouth.
> 
> 
> Ea my a$$


polygraph!


----------



## cbnero

tom67 said:


> gutpunch said:
> 
> 
> 
> i wouldn't consider r without hearing the truth out of her mouth.
> 
> 
> Ea my a$$
> 
> 
> 
> polygraph!
Click to expand...

Agreed. I would verify EA only. Give her direct questions - did you kiss anyone else, ever share a bed, etc... Then I would do a polygraph they are only $500 or so. Surprise the appt on her and see how she reacts. You might have your answers without ever having to go take one.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Trickle truth.


----------



## LongWalk

Access to her email and telephone may tell more than a polygraph. The most important thing is to keep the new dynamic alive. Keep working on yourself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## harrybrown

From your earlier posts and her visits to the OM until early in the am, it sure seems like she had a PA. (day of the separation)

I think you can not trust her. Has she been tested for stds?

Did she use a condom every time? 

You are a better man than I am. I would not be able to give up the nice GF for the cheating wife that treated you so rotten.

Wish you happiness and the best in your future.


----------



## Chuck71

The difference in TAM than other sites and advice boards

we guys will tell you what we'd do but even in you do opposite

we will still support you and offer advice

many places when you go against the advice given

no one will respond any more

some do that her on TAM....that's their choice

Unbe.... I am a high strung hothead, thankfully I learned to keep

it in check as I got older, my pop never did

for three weeks I could "act" like a passive doormat

but eventually......I will return to my true identity

your W can do the same, from what you say....she's had practice

you are not needing to gain her trust, SHE is YOUR trust

if it's a bluff, as 3X says, it will unravel 

if possible, maintain friendship with CF...what you saw in CF were

the things your W did not possess

I left a non-negotiable for my X a month before D final

had she took it, we still may not have worked out

we would have went to MC and everything 

would have been brought up, good, bad, ugly 

if I sniffed a lie, game over ......... had she admitted to OM.... game over

I never knew if she did or not, it doesn't matter now

and to a degree ......... it didn't matter then


----------



## Conrad

ThreeStrikes said:


> People like her don't think in terms of Plan A or B.
> 
> They just need someone to play a role. An important role in their life that they *need*. You don't see gals like her living alone, for this reason in particular.
> 
> The actors change, but the role remains. When Mrs. Unbe gets bored with an actor, she'll find a new one.
> 
> Unbe gets the part for now. But, since he's already played the role, I suspect she will get bored again quickly.


Very possible.

Also possible that she doesn't get bored with alpha Unbe.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Conrad said:


> Very possible.
> 
> Also possible that she doesn't get bored with alpha Unbe.


Does a spoiled 4 year old get bored?

The question is: how far along the disordered spectrum is she?

I'm rooting for Unbe. I hope he's not getting bamboozled.


----------



## Conrad

ThreeStrikes said:


> Does a spoiled 4 year old get bored?
> 
> The question is: how far along the disordered spectrum is she?
> 
> I'm rooting for Unbe. I hope he's not getting bamboozled.


Nobody knows the answer.

I hope she's closer to mine than the former Mrs. ThreeStrikes.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> Nobody knows the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope she's closer to mine than the former Mrs. ThreeStrikes.



She sounds more Janie. 

Unbe is not you. 

This could be a helluva lot more work than he is willing to do for the rest of his life. 

I couldn't do it.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> She sounds more Janie.
> 
> Unbe is not you.
> 
> This could be a helluva lot more work than he is willing to do for the rest of his life.
> 
> I couldn't do it.


I'm glad you weren't given the option.

You'll be better off.


----------



## Ceegee

Conrad said:


> I'm glad you weren't given the option.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll be better off.



Already am.


----------



## Chuck71

we must remember, love is a drug

if the government could tax it, they would

pop told me, "more people are killed over pu$$y than money"

"and those are about the only two minus street violence"


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> we must remember, love is a drug
> 
> if the government could tax it, they would
> 
> pop told me, "more people are killed over pu$$y than money"
> 
> "and those are about the only two minus street violence"


From his silence, we can assume unbe is mainlining the drug.


----------



## happyman64

Chuck71 said:


> we must remember, love is a drug
> 
> if the government could tax it, they would
> 
> pop told me, "more people are killed over pu$$y than money"
> 
> "and those are about the only two minus street violence"


Don't give the govt any more bad ideas...

They have plenty of them already.


----------



## unbe

Gents,

Long weekend just ended with matchbox. So far she's seems very remorseful, open and willing to accept all changes required and had broken down to me numerous times about how sorry she is. 

So far, she's really seemed to turn the page. She admitted me kicking her out was an eye opening into real life (there's one confirmation)

I continue to pound home nmmmg and co dependent feedback to her. She wants to start couples councliing. I feel we need at least 6 months each of IC prior to starting couples. Plus I'm not ready to call us a couple yet......

So far... So good

Will never drop from 50k!!!! Eyes wide open
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Heartbroken84

Sounds very positive unbe, pleased for you


----------



## unbe

Heartbroken84 said:


> Sounds very positive unbe, pleased for you


thank you...so far so good but im not ready to 'believe' just yet


----------



## Heartbroken84

unbe said:


> thank you...so far so good but im not ready to 'believe' just yet



No it's probably the best way, tread carefully & protect yourself although also try to live in the moment & enjoy the positives too


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> thank you...so far so good but im not ready to 'believe' just yet


If "believe" means to descend into the weeds of codependence, you should never "believe"


----------



## Ceegee

Don't unlearn what you have learned up to this point just because you R. 

You'll need to be more aware than ever.


----------



## Chuck71

Conrad said:


> If "believe" means to descend into the weeds of codependence, you should never "believe"


I can't agree more

for years I built up them as heroes

Roger Clemens, Kirby Puckett

look what happened in the end

....as for believing in WC....nah, couldn't get that drunk


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> If "believe" means to descend into the weeds of codependence, you should never "believe"


I mean believe in what I'm seeing and the actions I'm living. 

Never going back...ever
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Don't unlearn what you have learned up to this point just because you R.
> 
> You'll need to be more aware than ever.


100000% agree
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Will see let you go through her email and phone texting?


----------



## Pictureless

LongWalk said:


> Will see let you go through her email and phone texting?


Also be aware that a lot of smartphones have apps and games that facilitate chats. Lots of ways to hide communications. Mine used to claim she was chatting with her sister while playing scrabble. Interesting how the conversation would end and she would put the phone down as soon as I walked into the room.


----------



## unbe

shes has given me all access to anything I want to look at. I have all passwords to emails


----------



## tom67

unbe said:


> shes has given me all access to anything I want to look at. I have all passwords to emails


That is good on the surface.
Forget the words and focus on actions I really hope she is for real.


----------



## Chuck71

some of us feel there is a smoking gun somewhere

stay focused, dig, trust but verify


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> some of us feel there is a smoking gun somewhere
> 
> stay focused, dig, trust but verify


as do i but perhaps im jaded a bit?


----------



## unbe

update:

This isnt going to be easy (understatement of the year?)

I feel very uneasy at this point in time but am portraying nothing but as strong independent front. 

There is clearly a change I have noticed in matchbox but time will tell if its real and will stick. I feel the grips of co dependence reaching out and I am fighting it back hard! Continuing to work on this with IC. 

Think its time to re-read CDNM....

Its really hard to date your wife and not rush back into things, especially when things are going really well. (Co dependent major red flag?)

Gotta keep this about me, not about US!


----------



## Pictureless

unbe said:


> update:
> 
> This isnt going to be easy (understatement of the year?)
> 
> I feel very uneasy at this point in time but am portraying nothing but as strong independent front.
> 
> There is clearly a change I have noticed in matchbox but time will tell if its real and will stick. I feel the grips of co dependence reaching out and I am fighting it back hard! Continuing to work on this with IC.
> 
> Think its time to re-read CDNM....
> 
> Its really hard to date your wife and not rush back into things, especially when things are going really well. (Co dependent major red flag?)
> 
> Gotta keep this about me, not about US!


You should feel uneasy considering what she's done to you.

How's it going to work out? I couldn't say. I'm routing for you both.

I can share mistakes I made with Scrooge during our R attempt. 

Do not put saving the relationship before you're own happiness. 

Make and keep your boundaries. 

Guard against blame shifting. 

Do not tolerate any gas lighting and cake eating. 

It's only natural to want to go back to the way it was before the troubles started. But if you rush to get there she will know it and take control over the R. She will figure, do it my way or I will destroy you by ending us.

You have to be strong and act like. ...go ahead, I don't care. I have other options. 

Many times when I dated Scrooge during R she did stuff I didn't like and I tolerated it, ignored it, or just forgave her. Looking back when we first met and began our relationship if she did ANY of that she knows I would have dumped her immediately. She never tried it back then. The dynamic changed when she believed she had options. 

Matchbox must forever know that it's YOU who has options. 

I'm not saying you two are like me and Scrooge. I'm just sharing so hopefully it helps in some way.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> update:
> 
> This isnt going to be easy (understatement of the year?)
> 
> I feel very uneasy at this point in time but am portraying nothing but as strong independent front.
> 
> There is clearly a change I have noticed in matchbox but time will tell if its real and will stick. I feel the grips of co dependence reaching out and I am fighting it back hard! Continuing to work on this with IC.
> 
> Think its time to re-read CDNM....
> 
> Its really hard to date your wife and not rush back into things, especially when things are going really well. (Co dependent major red flag?)
> 
> Gotta keep this about me, not about US!


Read Awareness again also.


----------



## unbe

Pictureless said:


> You should feel uneasy considering what she's done to you.
> 
> How's it going to work out? I couldn't say. I'm routing for you both.
> 
> I can share mistakes I made with Scrooge during our R attempt.
> 
> Do not put saving the relationship before you're own happiness.
> 
> Make and keep your boundaries.
> 
> Guard against blame shifting.
> 
> Do not tolerate any gas lighting and cake eating.
> 
> It's only natural to want to go back to the way it was before the troubles started. But if you rush to get there she will know it and take control over the R. She will figure, do it my way or I will destroy you by ending us.
> 
> You have to be strong and act like. ...go ahead, I don't care. I have other options.
> 
> Many times when I dated Scrooge during R she did stuff I didn't like and I tolerated it, ignored it, or just forgave her. Looking back when we first met and began our relationship if she did ANY of that she knows I would have dumped her immediately. She never tried it back then. The dynamic changed when she believed she had options.
> 
> Matchbox must forever know that it's YOU who has options.
> 
> I'm not saying you two are like me and Scrooge. I'm just sharing so hopefully it helps in some way.


all makes a lot of sense. Its hard to remember this in the heat of the moment. I have to learn to take a few steps back before reacting....


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> all makes a lot of sense. Its hard to remember this in the heat of the moment. I have to learn to take a few steps back before reacting....


You've been waiting a long time for her to behave this way. So, don't beat yourself up too much.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence.html


----------



## Pictureless

unbe said:


> all makes a lot of sense. Its hard to remember this in the heat of the moment. I have to learn to take a few steps back before reacting....


Just one more point. You also have to be willing and able to pull the plug on Matchbox for good.

I started to pull the plug on Scrooge almost a year ago but she lured me back in. Sucked me back in...literally. Five nights in a row. While enjoyable, it proved meaningless. 

My point? You'll know in your gut if Matchbox is for real or faking it. Think with the big head. Lay out the boundaries. Don't negotiate a point of no return with her. If she reaches that point don't discuss things just execute and move on.


----------



## Chuck71

Pictureless said:


> Just one more point. You also have to be willing and able to pull the plug on Matchbox for good.
> 
> I started to pull the plug on Scrooge almost a year ago but she lured me back in. Sucked me back in...literally. Five nights in a row. While enjoyable, it proved meaningless.
> 
> My point? You'll know in your gut if Matchbox is for real or faking it. Think with the big head. Lay out the boundaries. Don't negotiate a point of no return with her. If she reaches that point don't discuss things just execute and move on.


it is so damn EASY to fall back into what you had

it is one of the hardest things to do.... to walk away on a R

an easy fix to a major problem

is like pi$$ing on a forest fire

I was guilty of this with my first two loves

yes we weren't married and we were "kids"

but is not the emotions just the same?

the eight years total were in now way, wasted years

but I could have met someone grounded and healthy

and celebrating twenty years together about this time


----------



## unbe

Update:

Guys, I'm not feeling this. I feel like she is gaining control over this way to quickly and Im too eager to push this forward. I have been talking about the future and matchbox is noticeably uncomfortable about it. I feel like this dangerously close to failing into the previous pattern which will eventually end badly for me.

Im heading away for a business trip today and will be back on Friday. I think I should cut contact for the time being. I am losing control of my emotions and need to get it back before its too late.


----------



## Chuck71

re-affirm your boundaries

you are the man in this

respect is an absolute must

if she does not like it

wave bye-bye

this "might be" preview of things to come


----------



## Pictureless

Unbe,

YOU have options. Matchbox has one: your way or the highway.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Guys, I'm not feeling this. I feel like she is gaining control over this way to quickly and Im too eager to push this forward. I have been talking about the future and matchbox is noticeably uncomfortable about it. I feel like this dangerously close to failing into the previous pattern which will eventually end badly for me.
> 
> Im heading away for a business trip today and will be back on Friday. I think I should cut contact for the time being. I am losing control of my emotions and need to get it back before its too late.



Why were you talking about the future?


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Guys, I'm not feeling this. I feel like she is gaining control over this way to quickly and Im too eager to push this forward. I have been talking about the future and matchbox is noticeably uncomfortable about it. I feel like this dangerously close to failing into the previous pattern which will eventually end badly for me.
> 
> Im heading away for a business trip today and will be back on Friday. I think I should cut contact for the time being. I am losing control of my emotions and need to get it back before its too late.


Claiming your happiness is fully living the moment you are in.

Not lamenting the past.

Not manipulating for the future.


----------



## GutPunch

Looks like someone is seeing red flags.


----------



## Chuck71

notice GP said flags, not flag


----------



## Conrad

GutPunch said:


> Looks like someone is seeing red flags.


When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> When someone shows you who they are, believe them.


:iagree:
It's his road to take...or not.
Follow that gut feeling this time.


----------



## Conrad

unbe,

How is it between the sheets?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

GutPunch said:


> Looks like someone is seeing red flags.


Hysterical bonding has worn off. Reality has set in. 

True colors are being revealed.


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Claiming your happiness is fully living the moment you are in.
> 
> Not lamenting the past.
> 
> Not manipulating for the future.


Direct from awareness teachings. Just finished re reading it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Why were you talking about the future?


Temp lapse. It's a work in progress!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> unbe,
> 
> How is it between the sheets?


It's been amazing. Best I've ever experienced.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Heartbroken84

unbe said:


> It's been amazing. Best I've ever experienced.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Jealous!! Very deprived here  lol!


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> It's been amazing. Best I've ever experienced.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good sign.

What's making you queasy?


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Good sign.
> 
> What's making you queasy?


Gotta be honest, I think it's all me. Co dependent rearing it's ugly head and making me very insecure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Gotta be honest, I think it's all me. Co dependent rearing it's ugly head and making me very insecure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Still in IC?


----------



## Chuck71

50k

observe

be in no hurry


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Still in IC?


You bet!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> 50k
> 
> observe
> 
> be in no hurry


Hear ya my friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> You bet!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Bring it up. Talk about all the feelings you're having and their source.

This is not a time for fear - it's a tremendous opportunity to learn about you, and rip out your codpendence - root and branch.


----------



## Heartbroken84

Conrad said:


> Bring it up. Talk about all the feelings you're having and their source.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a time for fear - it's a tremendous opportunity to learn about you, and rip out your codpendence - root and branch.



I agree. Talk to her about it, open up & tell her why your feeling the way you are. Let her get to know the real you, the you who's learning, growing & becoming a better person for it - don't let fear rule your life


----------



## Conrad

Heartbroken84 said:


> I agree. Talk to her about it, open up & tell her why your feeling the way you are. Let her get to know the real you, the you who's learning, growing & becoming a better person for it - don't let fear rule your life


Learn about the parts of your personality.

When you describe the emotions you are having, think back as early as you can remember and how old you were when you first felt that way. What did little unbe look like at that time?


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> You bet!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



How do you feel after IC?

What do you think about?


----------



## unbe

Update

We did speak while I was away. I decided early last week to not bring up the future anymore and just live in the moment. 

Seems almost immediately after I decided this matchbox has now started to talk about future plans as well as finances. 

Things are progressing down a good path at the moment. We are getting to know our new selves and so far, everything is clicking really well

I do discuss therapy with her and have discussed what makes me feel this way and what I'm doing to better myself! 

It's been a wild two weeks. I'm curious to see what the next two weeks brings lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Heartbroken84

Great news unbe, living in the moment is definitely the best way to be! Hope things continue to move forwards in a positive way


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Learn about the parts of your personality.
> 
> When you describe the emotions you are having, think back as early as you can remember and how old you were when you first felt that way. What did little unbe look like at that time?


This dates back around 20 years when little unbe was a shy, insecure little boy. He got crushed by a girl he was head of heels for and turned ice cold after that. 

Fast forward 4 years. Met his first wife. Never opened up fully therefore never had to deal with insecurities. 

Then really opened up the matchbox and the insecurities rushed back in almost instantly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Heartbroken84

unbe said:


> This dates back around 20 years when little unbe was a shy, insecure little boy. He got crushed by a girl he was head of heels for and turned ice cold after that.
> 
> 
> 
> Fast forward 4 years. Met his first wife. Never opened up fully therefore never had to deal with insecurities.
> 
> 
> 
> Then really opened up the matchbox and the insecurities rushed back in almost instantly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I get this, sounds so like my husband - sad thing is the girl that broke his heart as a teenager was me... I rejected him as I wasn't interested in having a boyfriend, it's scarred him forever as he is now unable to allow himself love as he's too scared of getting hurt


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> This dates back around 20 years when little unbe was a shy, insecure little boy. He got crushed by a girl he was head of heels for and turned ice cold after that.
> 
> Fast forward 4 years. Met his first wife. Never opened up fully therefore never had to deal with insecurities.
> 
> Then really opened up the matchbox and the insecurities rushed back in almost instantly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


more typical than you realize 

sounds like a book I've been reading


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Update
> 
> We did speak while I was away. I decided early last week to not bring up the future anymore and just live in the moment.
> 
> *Seems almost immediately after I decided this matchbox has now started to talk about future plans as well as finances. *
> 
> Things are progressing down a good path at the moment. We are getting to know our new selves and so far, everything is clicking really well
> 
> I do discuss therapy with her and have discussed what makes me feel this way and what I'm doing to better myself!
> 
> It's been a wild two weeks. I'm curious to see what the next two weeks brings lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


talk about flashbacks...... wow..... very common

if I had $1 for every time............

I could own Miami Beach


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Update
> 
> 
> 
> We did speak while I was away. I decided early last week to not bring up the future anymore and just live in the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems almost immediately after I decided this matchbox has now started to talk about future plans as well as finances.
> 
> 
> 
> Things are progressing down a good path at the moment. We are getting to know our new selves and so far, everything is clicking really well
> 
> 
> 
> I do discuss therapy with her and have discussed what makes me feel this way and what I'm doing to better myself!
> 
> 
> 
> It's been a wild two weeks. I'm curious to see what the next two weeks brings lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sounds great. 

I'd say you should keep, for the most part, what you talk about in therapy between you and your therapist. 

Let matchbox (or whomever) enjoy the results.


----------



## Conrad

Ceegee said:


> Sounds great.
> 
> I'd say you should keep, for the most part, what you talk about in therapy between you and your therapist.
> 
> Let matchbox (or whomever) enjoy the results.


Talk less - do more


----------



## unbe

Two week update:

Things are progressing amazingly well. Matchbox clearly has shown some positive changes and is continuing to work on others. 

I am fighting off my co dependency as the days go with the help of my IC. 

Sex has been great

Everything is going really well. Reviewed the vr and found nothing. 

I like this path we are on.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

unbe said:


> Two week update:
> 
> Things are progressing amazingly well. Matchbox clearly has shown some positive changes and is continuing to work on others.
> 
> I am fighting off my co dependency as the days go with the help of my IC.
> 
> Sex has been great
> 
> Everything is going really well. Reviewed the vr and found nothing.
> 
> I like this path we are on.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As Conrad would say...
Talk less
Bang more
Sounds like you have that covered though.
Progress not perfection.
View it as a day to day process.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Things are going well. We are connecting again on levels where I thought were long gone. 

I do have some concerns and maybe it's my co dependency again rearing it's ugly head;

1- matchbox seems to be content with our current arrangement and I don't see progress coming soon in regards to moving back in, etc. Is this a situation of cake eating on her part or co dependency on my part? 

2- matchbox is still looking to be rescued in certain instances and I am fighting it off unless I feel it's warranted. Correct?

Any feedback would be appreciated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

How long is her lease?
Has she given a specific reason she is not moving back?
Is she waiting for YOU to bring it up.


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Things are going well. We are connecting again on levels where I thought were long gone.
> 
> I do have some concerns and maybe it's my co dependency again rearing it's ugly head;
> 
> 1- matchbox seems to be content with our current arrangement and I don't see progress coming soon in regards to moving back in, etc. Is this a situation of cake eating on her part or co dependency on my part?
> 
> 2- matchbox is still looking to be rescued in certain instances and I am fighting it off unless I feel it's warranted. Correct?
> 
> Any feedback would be appreciated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Be a bit more specific.

You should be a good partner, but she should ask for your help when she needs it - and be appreciative of it.

What is she doing when she's not with you?

Do you know?


----------



## unbe

tom67 said:


> How long is her lease?
> Has she given a specific reason she is not moving back?
> Is she waiting for YOU to bring it up.


Not in a lease. Living at home. Her excuse is she doesn't want to rush and make the same mistake as we did in the past
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

Conrad said:


> Be a bit more specific.
> 
> You should be a good partner, but she should ask for your help when she needs it - and be appreciative of it.
> 
> What is she doing when she's not with you?
> 
> Do you know?


We've been toghther most of the time. When she's not she offers up where she is and what's she's doing. I don't ask. 

As for the help. I have been communicating that she must ask if she needs help. I will not volunteer is any longer unless it's something she can't physically complete. Too harsh?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> We've been toghther most of the time. When she's not she offers up where she is and what's she's doing. I don't ask.
> 
> As for the help. I have been communicating that she must ask if she needs help. I will not volunteer is any longer unless it's something she can't physically complete. Too harsh?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't communicate it.

Your inaction will speak volumes.

MAKE her ask.

You don't know of any issues until she alerts you to her need for your assistance.

And.... "I'm not ok with 'you should' knows"


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe, as far as she knows, you do not want to move back in

you are enjoying your new found freedom

right?


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe, as far as she knows, you do not want to move back in
> 
> you are enjoying your new found freedom
> 
> right?


Go out and have fun when she's not around.

She'll want to be home soon enough.


----------



## cbnero

My stbx showed zero remorse, yours did. My D is final tomorrow morning. I read what you are going through and wonder which path R or D is easier/harder and will be more fulfilling in the long run.

Hang in there man I am rooting for you and your marriage. But mainly for you no matter the outcome.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe, as far as she knows, you do not want to move back in
> 
> you are enjoying your new found freedom
> 
> right?


Yes and no. I only discuss when she brings it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> My stbx showed zero remorse, yours did. My D is final tomorrow morning. I read what you are going through and wonder which path R or D is easier/harder and will be more fulfilling in the long run.
> 
> Hang in there man I am rooting for you and your marriage. But mainly for you no matter the outcome.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Thanks brother. I appreciate the support
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Yes and no. I only discuss when she brings it up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What does she say?


----------



## unbe

Update:

Things are progressing great. Matchbox has really been stepping up. 

Something clicked during the time away. 

Ic weekly continues for both. Mc to commence shortly (perhaps a month or 2)

I haven't offered to solve any problems over the past two weeks and she hadn't asked. I feel she may struggle with this but that's not really my problem

Day by day....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Things are progressing great. Matchbox has really been stepping up.
> 
> Something clicked during the time away.
> 
> Ic weekly continues for both. Mc to commence shortly (perhaps a month or 2)
> 
> I haven't offered to solve any problems over the past two weeks and she hadn't asked. I feel she may struggle with this but that's not really my problem
> 
> Day by day....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Smiling.

A cap-n-gown are in order.

Great job unbe.

Don't backslide

Complacency is the enemy.


----------



## Chuck71

don't hear too many good stories on here

keep up the positive work

as Conrad said, "Complacency is the enemy"

any time you feel it creeping up, re-read this thread


----------



## cbnero

Any update Unbe? I'm guessing things are good, at least I hope they are.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## unbe20

guys this is unbe...it looks like we are back to this. no infidelity this time just the i dont think this is going to work out speech, we are too different.

i dont know where to go from here.

did i get complacent, yes

help me get back on the path before its too late....


----------



## Chuck71

Long time no see........ Have you re-read your thread yet? How differently do you feel now

compared to then? Are you through with the M?


----------



## unbe20

chuck im re-reading it as we speak. when we first got back everything was great, both focusing on the marriage and each other. after around 6 months we fell back into the routine. then yesterday out of no where i got the i dont think this is going to work out talk and that she doesnt want to try anymore. she feels its best to get out now when she is still young enough to find someone to remarry and have children (she didnt say that but thats what I got out of it). I honestly didnt know what to say to that except i dont believe a marriage is something you just give up on and that I wanted to work on it. 

We did come home together last night, slept in the same bed then had sex this morning. 

She had left to attend a family obligation and I am at work. She did say afterward she wanted to go and process everything by herself then will come home after. Im expecting when she comes home to hear that she is moving out....I dont know what else can possibly happen from that


----------



## Chuck71

Stay at 50k ft....... observe. Say nothing about things.... have her bring it to you.

Do not seem needy, clingy.... go about your day. Let us know what is said.

The sex... very common.... hysterical bonding. Are you certain there is not another POSOM?

Cell records, text messages, CC receipts, FB?


----------



## unbe20

chuck, no evidence of POSOM whatsoever....

Will update later on. going to need you guys to keep me on the path again....


----------



## Chuck71

We still have 2x4s..... I added another though


----------



## happyman64

The path is simple.

If she comes home and says she wants out then point to the door and tell her " Out is that way."

Nothing more, nothing less.

Never stay with someone that does not want to be with you. You have been here before with her.

This time really Let Her Go.

You deserve better.

Do it while you are still young.

HM


----------



## unbe20

Thanks man. I hear the message. I honestly am getting fed up with this bs....


----------



## unbe20

Do I just flip this and say " you know what you don't need to think about anything. Don't come home"?

So friggin angry at myself right now


----------



## Chuck71

cool

firm

dispassionate

do not engage.... if it gets heated "I'm sorry you feel this way"

Let her say her peace .... act accordingly

unless you are 100% fed up.... then it's already over


----------



## unbe20

im not 100% yet....i feel that I am very close though.

what i dont get is that she says she has been unhappy for a year. how am i missing this?


----------



## unbe20

So today has come and gone. She seems to be willing to give it a try although no terms have been discussed on how this is going to work. 

Need some suggestions from you guys....


----------



## farsidejunky

How many times do you have to hit your hand with a hammer before you realize it hurts enough to stop?

Do you really want to go through this with her again? 

I think you know what you need to do, but lack the will to do so.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe20 said:


> im not 100% yet....i feel that I am very close though.
> 
> what i dont get is that she says she has been unhappy for a year. how am i missing this?


She expected you to read her mind. How similar is this to the debacle you had 18 months ago?

With no kids, three year M, just file for D. Don't say a thing, just file.

Trust me.... you will then hear "why she was -unhappy-" 

Judging from last year..... just D her. If you still want to date.... fine, just not as man / wife

If you keep on playing musical marriage, happy / sad/ confused

you will have a couple kids with her and ummm..... then it gets VERY nasty


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I can tell you, this will not happen. I will not allow myself to be taken advantage of this way. She deserves nothing, she's entitled to nothing and she will get nothing.
> 
> What she will get is, for the first time on her life, a consequence for her action.
> 
> My heart will put me through some chit, my brain will not allow her to ruin me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unbe

remember post #269. Do you think she has changed from then to now?


----------



## Chaparral

Did you keep up with the MMSLP book and keep running the plan?

Have you gone back to codependency?

Did the two of you read and take seriously the book HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS?


----------



## Chuck71

ThreeStrikes said:


> People like her don't think in terms of Plan A or B.
> 
> They just need someone to play a role. An important role in their life that they *need*. You don't see gals like her living alone, for this reason in particular.
> 
> The actors change, but the role remains. When Mrs. Unbe gets bored with an actor, she'll find a new one.
> 
> Unbe gets the part for now. But, since he's already played the role, I suspect she will get bored again quickly.


This spoke volumes...... how do you now see this Unbe?


----------



## unbe20

Chuck71 said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell you, this will not happen. I will not allow myself to be taken advantage of this way. She deserves nothing, she's entitled to nothing and she will get nothing.
> 
> What she will get is, for the first time on her life, a consequence for her action.
> 
> My heart will put me through some chit, my brain will not allow her to ruin me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> Unbe
> 
> remember post #269. Do you think she has changed from then to now?
Click to expand...

Seems to be following the same pattern chuck


----------



## unbe20

Chaparral said:


> Did you keep up with the MMSLP book and keep running the plan?
> 
> No I didnt.
> 
> Have you gone back to codependency?
> 
> In pieces yes.
> 
> Did the two of you read and take seriously the book HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS?


No. I never read this one. Just nmmng, mmslp, 5 love languages and co dependent no more


----------



## unbe20

farsidejunky said:


> How many times do you have to hit your hand with a hammer before you realize it hurts enough to stop?
> 
> Do you really want to go through this with her again?
> 
> I think you know what you need to do, but lack the will to do so.



You are 10000% correct


----------



## unbe20

Chuck71 said:


> ThreeStrikes said:
> 
> 
> 
> People like her don't think in terms of Plan A or B.
> 
> They just need someone to play a role. An important role in their life that they *need*. You don't see gals like her living alone, for this reason in particular.
> 
> The actors change, but the role remains. When Mrs. Unbe gets bored with an actor, she'll find a new one.
> 
> Unbe gets the part for now. But, since he's already played the role, I suspect she will get bored again quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> This spoke volumes...... how do you now see this Unbe?
Click to expand...

No one is in the picture this time so I don't think she found another actor but the rest of the statement seems spot on.


----------



## unbe20

So here's a twist. It seems someone is in the picture. It's her toxic friend (female) who has never liked me. 

When we R back last feb she stopped talking to matchbox due to this decision. 

About a month ago they reconnected....


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe20 said:


> So here's a twist. It seems someone is in the picture. It's her toxic friend (female) who has never liked me.
> 
> When we R back last feb she stopped talking to matchbox due to this decision.
> 
> About a month ago they reconnected....


"If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything."

This is who she is, brother. To keep having to win her back, over and over again, is no way to live.

Deejo gave a great quote in a thread, and it is particularly appropriate to your situation.

"I want to be honorable. I want to be worthy. For the benefit of my partner. But not because of her. Because of me.

And if I deem she isn't worthy of my best, then she won't remain my partner. I see no need to ever invest myself in 'winning' the heart of a woman ever again. It is a fools errand.

That probably sounds like sour apples. It isn't. I think of it as self awareness."

Think about that, Unbe. You are basically going through a cycle of winning her back. Over and over again. Until the next person who is influencing her tells her you are not worth it.

The idea, brother, is that you live your life trying to be the best Unbe you can. Your partner should be naturally attracted to that. If she is not, then you need to consider moving on lest this situation repeat itself.


----------



## unbe20

farsidejunky said:


> unbe20 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So here's a twist. It seems someone is in the picture. It's her toxic friend (female) who has never liked me.
> 
> When we R back last feb she stopped talking to matchbox due to this decision.
> 
> About a month ago they reconnected....
> 
> 
> 
> "If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything."
> 
> This is who she is, brother. To keep having to win her back, over and over again, is no way to live.
> 
> Deejo gave a great quote in a thread, and it is particularly appropriate to your situation.
> 
> "I want to be honorable. I want to be worthy. For the benefit of my partner. But not because of her. Because of me.
> 
> And if I deem she isn't worthy of my best, then she won't remain my partner. I see no need to ever invest myself in 'winning' the heart of a woman ever again. It is a fools errand.
> 
> That probably sounds like sour apples. It isn't. I think of it as self awareness."
> 
> Think about that, Unbe. You are basically going through a cycle of winning her back. Over and over again. Until the next person who is influencing her tells her you are not worth it.
> 
> The idea, brother, is that you live your life trying to be the best Unbe you can. Your partner should be naturally attracted to that. If she is not, then you need to consider moving on lest this situation repeat itself.
Click to expand...


I read your quote and it hits home. I have regressed back to co dependency. Not quite sure when it happened but sitting here now I feel it. 

We just got back from breakfast and she's acting like nothing happened the other day. Talking about our future and whatnot. It's surreal. I am thinking to myself is this a dream? Was Saturday a dream? WTF is going on.....


----------



## Chuck71

I feel Matchbox is baiting you... to see how Co-D you are now. Nothing was said about the other day

not the hysterical bonding. How about doing her a favor and file for D. Don't say a word, just file.

How similar were her actions compared to what they were back in the Fall 2013?

Seems you need to check this out again

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence.html


----------



## unbe20

Chuck71 said:


> I feel Matchbox is baiting you... to see how Co-D you are now. Nothing was said about the other day
> 
> not the hysterical bonding. How about doing her a favor and file for D. Don't say a word, just file.
> 
> How similar were her actions compared to what they were back in the Fall 2013?
> 
> Seems you need to check this out again
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence.html


Seems very similar. I think you are right and I have to be careful not to fall into what happened last time. Have to work on myself, not us. I can't fix us. I can only make myself happy....

Very hard to do when you see everything around you starting to fall apart


----------



## Chuck71

You can not be a Mr. Fixer. She has to fix herself.... I doubt

she even realizes she has issues. Unbe... I think you are fed up

with how things are headed again. You are scared you will revert back

to your emotional wreck of 18 months ago. Are you already on the way?.

In your past, M and LTR g/fs.... who broke it off in the end, them or you?

Have you ever wanted to break things off with a female

but were scared to "hurt her feelings?"


----------



## unbe20

Chuck71 said:


> You can not be a Mr. Fixer. She has to fix herself.... I doubt
> 
> she even realizes she has issues. Unbe... I think you are fed up
> 
> with how things are headed again. You are scared you will revert back
> 
> to your emotional wreck of 18 months ago. Are you already on the way?.
> 
> In your past, M and LTR g/fs.... who broke it off in the end, them or you?
> 
> Have you ever wanted to break things off with a female
> 
> but were scared to "hurt her feelings?"


Previous M and ltr was broken off by me. 

Matchbox acting like nothing is wrong is really freaking me out. I only see one option....

Start to get myself right and prepared to end this. That starts with back to therapy, rereading and reinforcing all the lessons learned.


----------



## unbe20

Update from today:

Matchbox gives me a kiss goodbye this morning prior to going to work, saying she loves me. 

Text to me an hour later thanking me for being such an amazing person. 

I can't get sidetracked

Need to get back to working on me. 

Making myself a better person. 

Whoever is around after im done I'll decide then if they are worth keeping around and sharing in my life.


----------



## Chaparral

unbe20 said:


> No. I never read this one. Just nmmng, mmslp, 5 love languages and co dependent no more


But did you understand the concepts in the MMSLP book and continue to follow the MAP plan?


----------



## unbe20

I understood the concept, I definaltey lost my way and need to be reminded of the basics. Any help is appreciated


----------



## SamuraiJack

Not much I can say here that hasn't already been said...except maybe one thing.

Get yourself a few sheets of paper and make a timeline from about 6 months before things went to hell. Re-read your posts and chart on a scale of 1-10 how good things were.
Bet a pattern emerges to you.

jes sayin.


----------



## unbe20

Picked up his needs, her needs along with 7 tips to a successful marriage. 

I am starting to re read co dependent along with 7 tips. Matchbox is reading his needs, her needs

Starting up IC again this week

Wish I never slipped back to this....


----------



## Chuck71

Will she agree to MC?


----------



## unbe20

Her initial reaction was no as we tried it before and it didn't work. I immediately pointed out that it didn't work because she didn't hear what she wanted to hear. 

At this point I'm more worried about myself than that... It's something I will revisit but not until I can get some IC sessions in first.


----------



## Chuck71

I love the band Firehouse.... "Shake and Tumble" live especially

they had a song "I Live my Life for You"

that disturbed me, you now know why


----------



## unbe20

Update from today...

Alls well in crazy land.... 

Staring IC tomorrow. Reading and adapting. 

She said she's reading but I haven't seen it, who knows and honestly I can't be concerned with it.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe20 said:


> Update from today...
> 
> Alls well in crazy land....
> 
> Staring IC tomorrow. Reading and adapting.
> 
> She said she's reading but I haven't seen it, who knows and honestly I can't be concerned with it.



Wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't. 

What's her motivation?


----------



## unbe20

Ceegee said:


> unbe20 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update from today...
> 
> Alls well in crazy land....
> 
> Staring IC tomorrow. Reading and adapting.
> 
> She said she's reading but I haven't seen it, who knows and honestly I can't be concerned with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't.
> 
> What's her motivation?
Click to expand...

At this point, none. The man I am at this moment is a co dependent scared little boy. The man I know I am and will become again is a strong willed stop at nothing grown ass man. At that point is when I expect to see her kick it into gear. However at that point, it may be too late


----------



## Chuck71

Re-read the posts on your thread involving Conrad. Matter of fact, read ReGroup's entire thread.

400+ pages..... filled with valuable learning.


----------



## unbe20

Interesting turn tonight...

Straight from mmslp I sent a text to matchbox saying that dinner had smelt good (she was cooking it during the day) and that the only thing that would make it better is if she served it in lingerie. Low and behold I got home and there she was.....


----------



## unbe20

Chuck71 said:


> What? A commercial break $%^&*&^%%$#



Thought it was implied lol

She was home in lingerie serving me dinner. Then right after dinner we got down to business. 

Strange, uhh yea....


----------



## unbe20

Update from today:

IC was great. Well fell back into our routine, he feels that we will be ok with some minor adjustments on both ends. Wants to meet matchbox, not sure I want her in that part of my world but I'm open to considering it. 

Matchbox and I did a few exercises from 7 tips to a successful marriage. Opened up the communication a bit which I thought was very good and healthy. 

Today was a good day....


----------



## unbe20

Weekend update...

Been a great weekend. I haven felt this good about myself in a while. 

Matchbox and I had a great conversation yesterday where she opened up about how she knows most of this is due to her upbringing. Now the next step is her seeking out help IMO. 

Starting to get myself back on course....


----------



## Chuck71

How was her childhood?


----------



## unbe20

Multiple divorces, poverty, physically abusive mentally unstable father who is now out of the picture


----------



## Chuck71

You felt by giving her a stable environment.... she would appreciate it and rise above her upbringing...


----------



## unbe20

Chuck71 said:


> You felt by giving her a stable environment.... she would appreciate it and rise above her upbringing...


Was hopeful this would be the case


----------



## cbnero

Sad to see you back here... No offense but hoped we'd never hear from you again.

From an outside perspective: You are allowing her to have all the control and she has you reacting to her nonsense. Time to grow a set, friend.

Stay calm. When she get's mad just say "Okay" and "Thanks for sharing that. I'm sorry you feel that way." 
Don't get angry and don't give her any ammo. Sounds like she is trying to get you upset/angry so you react and then she can use that as a reason to vilify you or justify her actions. So just don't.

You've been here before. Stay calm. But trust your gut. If you are her security blanket and Ol' Reliable then you can put up boundaries without divorcing her.
Separate checking, making your own plans, NOT ENGAGING (which will piss her off - that's good), etc... And if she pulls the "we're done" speech again then say OK please go file. I'll sign an attorney in the morning. Then act just fine and happy and get the heck out of there. Talking is extremely OVER rated IMO. Actions, not words!!!

Good luck. I'll try and remember to check back in later this month.

your buddy,
Nero


----------



## unbe

Here we are again....just got back from a family trip where she stated I was the best thing to ever happen to her and that she didn't know what she would do without me to a week later a small argument leads to her moving out while I'm at work and taking our dog with her.

I managed to get her to meet me and give me the dog but the latest is she doesn't want this life anymore and our marriage can't be fixed and blah blah blah.

I need your guys support more than ever. Last time I wanted to work this out, I didn't want to lose her. This time I need the strength to stay away and push this through once and for all. I can't keep going through everything is great for months then one day I hear she's been miserable for a year with no warning. 

Ladies and gents...I'm looking for advice again, guidance. Please help me here.

1st question is...we have a house. I don't want to be there. She is currently living at her moms but plans on coming back. 

Do I get a place and allow her to come back? Staying there with her is out of the question. I also fear that she may try and take the dog again. 

Oh and happy new year to all 😗


----------



## Chuck71

Whose name is the house in? This is the third blow-up. She wants out, give her what she wants.....

File D papers and serve her. Cover your assets. Open sole banking accounts.

Is that car she drives still in your name or did you buy her another one?

Just curious... when you posted last year... why were you banned? 

Hopefully you will get this done this time.


----------



## cbnero

Oh man... sorry bra. Welcome back. 

Is there a OM involved?


----------



## unbe

I was banned for creating a new account as I forgot the details of this one...

The mortgage is in her name but the deed is in both our names. Advice?

Car is hers now...

Already have sole bank accounts

Could be OM. I honestly don't know


----------



## Chuck71

Then DO NOT move out. Make her life not as she planned it to be. Tell her she has to evict you LOL

BTW with name on deed.... she can't.... not until D is final.

Are you through with her this time? Or have you not been hurt enough yet?

If you're done......... who cares if there is a OM? File for D.

Get that leech off of your skin


----------



## unbe

There's no hope for this marriage my logical self knows this.

My financial self knows I can not afford to hire lawyers and go through a divorce at this moment. I need at least 2 months. 

My emotional self can't handle these swings anymore


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Then DO NOT move out. Make her life not as she planned it to be. Tell her she has to evict you LOL
> 
> BTW with name on deed.... she can't.... not until D is final.
> 
> Are you through with her this time? Or have you not been hurt enough yet?
> 
> If you're done......... who cares if there is a OM? File for D.
> 
> Get that leech off of your skin


I don't care if there is OM at all. I do not want to be in that house though but I get what your saying about staying there just to make her life difficult. Honestly it makes mine difficult as well so I'm not too sure what's best here.


----------



## Chuck71

Then you go to the local legal aid and file. Does your state have a DIY divorce?

Mine does.... $184.75. I made my XW pay for it..... being SHE wanted out LOL

Most states have them, print them off, sign you part and leave it sitting on the kitchen table with a pen.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I don't care if there is OM at all. I do not want to be in that house though but I get what your saying about staying there just to make her life difficult. Honestly it makes mine difficult as well so I'm not too sure what's best here.


If you can't afford to file with a lawyer, financially you are in a pinch.

How can you afford to move out if you can't afford to file?

You glue your arse to that house until it is final. Save $$ to move out.

You pay your bills, she pays hers.

Seriously.... look into DIY divorces in your state and legal aid can help you


----------



## unbe

I'm in NY not sure if they have this but I'll look.

I don't expect to she her back at the house so I guess leaving it on the kitchen table is out of the question.

I really can't afford to move either, I figured that was more important for my sanity than filing. I may be way off here!


----------



## Chuck71

She'll be back.... bet the farm.

If you're done with her, who gives a fvck what she does?

Least she can do is not get wound up as you reside there until the D is final.

After all.... you bought her a car. Hence the term Matchbox. 

Grow back your balls..... tell her you aren't leaving until it is final.

Pay only what you are obliged to


----------



## cbnero

Well there are always 2 sides. I'm just trying to determine what possible cause there is for the breakdown again and if Unbe is having a knee-jerk reaction or if emotionally he is prepared to move forward. 

Unbe do you still love her and want to be married? Or do you no longer want that?
She sounds like she might be beyond saving here, nothing you can do.


----------



## unbe

I found out I was able to self file and I will do this for paperwork wise. Need to review it and get it completed.

Is the consensus to stay in the house during this? Again, it is inconvienet for me as it is quite a commute to my employer. 

I am sick over this and the fact that I let it happen again....


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Well there are always 2 sides. I'm just trying to determine what possible cause there is for the breakdown again and if Unbe is having a knee-jerk reaction or if emotionally he is prepared to move forward.
> 
> Unbe do you still love her and want to be married? Or do you no longer want that?
> She sounds like she might be beyond saving here, nothing you can do.


I love the idea of comfort and stability. I understand she gives me neither but in my mind I thought she did. I do agree she is beyond saving (and was the first time as well).

I do love her, but I can not continue to be emotionally pummeled by these fleeing acts every 6 months.

I don't know the cause of the breakdown she did mention some stress about bills however she doesn't pay any so I am unsure why she was stressed. We have very minimal debt but she doesn't seem to understand that even through I am 100% transparent with it.


----------



## bandit.45

There is something seriously wrong with your wife. She acts almost like she has a mental illness or some kind of personality disorder.


----------



## cbnero

unbe said:


> I love the idea of comfort and stability. I understand she gives me neither but in my mind I thought she did. I do agree she is beyond saving (and was the first time as well).
> 
> I do love her, but I can not continue to be emotionally pummeled by these fleeing acts every 6 months.
> 
> I don't know the cause of the breakdown she did mention some stress about bills however she doesn't pay any so I am unsure why she was stressed. We have very minimal debt but she doesn't seem to understand that even through I am 100% transparent with it.


We'll don't go buying her another car. Haha j/k.

I know you wanted to stay married before. What things did you each do individually and as a couple to identify and work through the prior issues? Are you both still doing IC and joint counseling?

I'm curious as to whether a giant rug-sweep occurred here or if any prior issues were resolved. 

Did she say she wants to divorce? It's hard to understand the current dynamic to assess anything.

If you want the divorce as an escape how will you feel in 6 months or a year when things calm down? You "think" it may be money stress. But you don't know? She gave no reason other than the general "I cant live like this" statement? That is why I ask about OM and what us going on with your marriage, communication, counseling, etc...

If you just want D and be done than your advice is simple and easy. File. Have her served. Stay in the house until final. Move on with your life.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> We'll don't go buying her another car. Haha j/k.
> 
> I know you wanted to stay married before. What things did you each do individually and as a couple to identify and work through the prior issues? Are you both still doing IC and joint counseling?
> 
> *She is doing IC, I haven't in a while. We never went back to joint after we got back toghther.*
> 
> I'm curious as to whether a giant rug-sweep occurred here or if any prior issues were resolved.
> 
> *Nothing was ever resolved from the last time*.
> 
> Did she say she wants to divorce? It's hard to understand the current dynamic to assess anything.
> 
> *She did say this and that we can't fix it. I asked her 5 times if she was sure and that I didn't want to involve my family I going through this again if she wasn't. She said it was over*.
> 
> If you want the divorce as an escape how will you feel in 6 months or a year when things calm down? You "think" it may be money stress. But you don't know? She gave no reason other than the general "I cant live like this" statement? That is why I ask about OM and what us going on with your marriage, communication, counseling, etc...
> 
> *That is literally what she said. She said I don't want this life anymore, we can't fix it*.
> 
> If you just want D and be done than your advice is simple and easy. File. Have her served. Stay in the house until final. Move on with your life.


----------



## unbe

bandit.45 said:


> There is something seriously wrong with your wife. She acts almost like she has a mental illness or some kind of personality disorder.


This is not confirmed medically but I have strong feelings this is the case. Family history of bi-polar disorder.


----------



## bandit.45

unbe said:


> This is not confirmed medically but I have strong feelings this is the case. Family history of bi-polar disorder.


It would not surprise me.


----------



## MJJEAN

So, I read the whole thread today. Wow!

She has FOO issues and is possibly/probably bi-polar. Basically, without intense treatment including meds, this woman will likely never be able to have a healthy marriage with anyone. You or the next guy, she'll keep repeating the cycle. Break-up, make-up, rinse, repeat.


----------



## ReturntoZero

We're going on 2 years of this stuff? First post December of 2013?

Dare I read the entire thing?


----------



## unbe

MJJEAN said:


> So, I read the whole thread today. Wow!
> 
> She has FOO issues and is possibly/probably bi-polar. Basically, without intense treatment including meds, this woman will likely never be able to have a healthy marriage with anyone. You or the next guy, she'll keep repeating the cycle. Break-up, make-up, rinse, repeat.


I agree and I think she knows is but too afraid to admit it in being fearful she will turn into her father. Instead she lives with this and continues to swing.

Unfortunately I can not stick around any longer and continue to be put through this every 6 months or so


----------



## unbe

Anyway...can someone link me to some good threads to read through to keep me moving forward...

Thanks everyone for your feedback so far. This is just the beginning so strap in for a wild ride


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Anyway...can someone link me to some good threads to read through to keep me moving forward...
> 
> Thanks everyone for your feedback so far. This is just the beginning so strap in for a wild ride


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/60683-what-do-i-dont-know.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/86433-z.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/204202-i-have-new-gf-my-xw.html

All three same guy. A1 advice throughout.

His XW also had / has issues she refuses to admit or work on


----------



## Openminded

I remember this thread. 

My guess is that she isn't really finished -- she just reacts in the moment -- and at some point (sooner or later) she will want to try again. And she'll pull out all the stops to convince you. 

Don't let that happen again or you will be repeating this cycle for the rest of your life.


----------



## unbe

Openminded said:


> I remember this thread.
> 
> My guess is that she isn't really finished -- she just reacts in the moment -- and at some point (sooner or later) she will want to try again. And she'll pull out all the stops to convince you.
> 
> Don't let that happen again or you will be repeating this cycle for the rest of your life.


I agree with this 100%. And my struggle will be to stay strong and fight it off.

I feel like at this moment I'm done and looking out for my own well being. I am just hoping and praying I can stay strong


----------



## cbnero

It's a shame none of the prior issues were resolved. Now you have come full circle again and find yourself right back to where you started. Both of you own some responsibility for it happening again.

What do you really want? A divorce? Closure to the unresolved issues?

If you are using the divorce as an escape that's fine. But problems don't go away. Remind me again, do you have children together?

I see this playing out as a "she has a meltdown, unbe reacts, and nothing gets resolved" scenario. Maybe I'm wrong. But it sounds like a broken record to me.

At this point you're at an argument stage, she fled for who knows how long, and you're left in a state of panic. Get to 50k, remove emotion for a few minutes.

Is this repairable? Do you want it repaired if it could be? Do you love her?

If you can save a marriage that's a good thing. IMO it sounds like you declared the marriage repaired before without actually doing any repair. Just massive rug sweeping. 

What do you really want?


----------



## Chuck71

no kids, not even M 5 years


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> It's a shame none of the prior issues were resolved. Now you have come full circle again and find yourself right back to where you started. Both of you own some responsibility for it happening again.
> 
> What do you really want? A divorce? Closure to the unresolved issues?
> 
> If you are using the divorce as an escape that's fine. But problems don't go away. Remind me again, do you have children together?
> 
> I see this playing out as a "she has a meltdown, unbe reacts, and nothing gets resolved" scenario. Maybe I'm wrong. But it sounds like a broken record to me.
> 
> At this point you're at an argument stage, she fled for who knows how long, and you're left in a state of panic. Get to 50k, remove emotion for a few minutes.
> 
> Is this repairable? Do you want it repaired if it could be? Do you love her?
> 
> If you can save a marriage that's a good thing. IMO it sounds like you declared the marriage repaired before without actually doing any repair. Just massive rug sweeping.
> 
> What do you really want?


I don't think it's repairable because I don't think she's ever capable of changing and getting help for these episodes. 

What I want is what every wants. A normal marriage that's filled with love and respect for each other. Not this up and down peeks and valleys relationship I'm in that crushed my soul every 6 months. 

Do I love her, yes. I do love myself more though and realize I can keep doing this to myself. 

Also no kids. Been married 4.5 years


----------



## cbnero

Ok so well make your stand. You may/may not need to file the divorce. If you don't want to, then dont. Abandonment is definitely grounds to divorce so that's your personal choice.

But at minimum you need to set some strong personal boundaries. You gain nothing by continually allowing or enabling her behavior.

No kids means if you divorce at least you can be fully free of her. 

I am not telling you what to do, but if you want my opinion - I would file. She abandoned you. She declared she wanted the divorce. Give her what she wants. 180. Get the paperwork done. Get everything ready on your end. Don't show anything but happiness to her. Don't get emotional, don't engage her. Strictly business. 

You are right, you can't change her. But if you change yourself, hard 180, you might inspire her to change herself. Or not. But at least you won't be fooled by what she says.

Do the work on yourself and follow through with it this time. Let her go, give her what she wants.


----------



## ReturntoZero

cbnero said:


> We'll don't go buying her another car. Haha j/k.
> 
> I know you wanted to stay married before. What things did you each do individually and as a couple to identify and work through the prior issues? Are you both still doing IC and joint counseling?
> 
> I'm curious as to whether a giant rug-sweep occurred here or if any prior issues were resolved.
> 
> Did she say she wants to divorce? It's hard to understand the current dynamic to assess anything.
> 
> If you want the divorce as an escape how will you feel in 6 months or a year when things calm down? You "think" it may be money stress. But you don't know? She gave no reason other than the general "I cant live like this" statement? That is why I ask about OM and what us going on with your marriage, communication, counseling, etc...
> 
> If you just want D and be done than your advice is simple and easy. File. Have her served. Stay in the house until final. Move on with your life.


I get the feeling nothing has really been resolved. Yes, I read the whole thing.

So, it's been more than 2 years and how much work have you done on yourself unbe?

Would it be accurate to say that you implement some of the ideas you find here and they "work" to get her back? Then the same dynamic sets in and the hamster wheel gets spinning with full force?


----------



## cbnero

That caught my attention - unbe says she doesn't want to/ cannot change, yet he says she is still in IC, but he himself is not. And no joint counseling is taking place. 

If she didn't care or want to improve, why is she in IC?

I feel like there is a lot of info missing here. Have they been arguing? If so, what about? Has unbe been bringing up the past or feeling stress from the prior breakup yet? Is there an OM?

I know with my ex there was no chance of her doing IC before she left. And even now when she tried to come back, she couldn't bring herself to do IC.

Maybe unbe's wife is just plain nuts. But in the interest of being objective it would be nice to have more info as to what's happened the past 1-2 years in their marriage since R.


----------



## unbe

The past two years have been for the most part status quo. The only argument we have had recently is over debt and money. We have very low debt but live just at our means so we don't have much savings. 

We both spend without regard of savings. Although I do not know the reason for the blow up this time I can imagine it has something to do with money and her feelings that she is able to spend as she pleases but doesn't feel the same for me.

Now keep in mind we both make very good livings and do not struggle to get anything we want. Our money is seperate and we split up the bills roughly 80/20 ( I do make more so it is a fair split)

She has been in IC for the past two months and it has been to work through issues that she's been having at work and with her father. She has told me numerous times they don't even talk about me or the marriage. This is or first time she has been in IC since the first break up

When we first got back together I was in IC and working on myself while she did nothing. I kept at this for around 2 months then we got complacent and feel into the grove.

One of the posters is right, nothing was resolved from the previous break. 

At this moment I am a whirlwind of emotions. I want her back, but I don't want this pain. I know eventually even if I can manage to get her back I'll be in this spot again. 

I woke up this morning very weak and wanting to reach out but I didnt. The 180 started the second she decided to leave and I will try my hardest to keep at it but I can tell already it will be difficult. 

I haven't spoken to a layer yet although I did find some forms online to file and have completed them. I don't know what my next step is or when I will take it. 

She is thinking she is coming back to the house next week and I will be gone. I haven't decided how I am going to handle is yet..

A lot of questions...not many answers


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> I get the feeling nothing has really been resolved. Yes, I read the whole thing.
> 
> So, it's been more than 2 years and how much work have you done on yourself unbe?
> 
> Would it be accurate to say that you implement some of the ideas you find here and they "work" to get her back? Then the same dynamic sets in and the hamster wheel gets spinning with full force?


I haven't done much tbh. I started too and ended up right back to where I was two years ago.

This is exactly what happened. I used the tricks I learend here to get her back then got complacent. 

I am not without blame here


----------



## Chuck71

Some people get a rush from using a charge card but feel they were duped when the bill comes.

My XW was bad about buying clothes to boost her self esteem. When the bill came, she would get mad.

After 4-5 charge cards got to the point she couldn't even make minimum payment, guess who she ran to.

I would advise her but not pay her way out of it. I did once, she ran it back up, I said never again.

Until your W can harness her emotions, she will be on a vicious cycle. As long as you are with her, 

your arse is on that roller coaster too.

If you pay 80 / 20 you damn sure should stay at the house. Could she even afford to stay at the 

house herself and maintain the bills? If she thinks a OM will move right in and chip in on the bills,

she is in for a very rude awakening.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Some people get a rush from using a charge card but feel they were duped when the bill comes.
> 
> My XW was bad about buying clothes to boost her self esteem. When the bill came, she would get mad.
> 
> After 4-5 charge cards got to the point she couldn't even make minimum payment, guess who she ran to.
> 
> I would advise her but not pay her way out of it. I did once, she ran it back up, I said never again.
> 
> Until your W can harness her emotions, she will be on a vicious cycle. As long as you are with her,
> 
> your arse is on that roller coaster too.
> 
> If you pay 80 / 20 you damn sure should stay at the house. Could she even afford to stay at the
> 
> house herself and maintain the bills? If she thinks a OM will move right in and chip in on the bills,
> 
> she is in for a very rude awakening.


Is the consensus thought here that OM is involved?

The more I think the more I feel this may b possible.

Secretive phone...I had no access to that bill
Hour to hour and half long bathroom visits without showering daily...


----------



## farsidejunky

Does it really matter at this point?

This relationship is unhealthy enough to leave even with no OM.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## cbnero

farsidejunky said:


> Does it really matter at this point?
> 
> This relationship is unhealthy enough to leave even with no OM.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Depends on your view on marriage. Unhealthy relationships can improve. Either way the hard 180 is Step 1. 

He can focus on that and himself while he thinks things through and waits to hear from her again. If she is truly done and wants a divorce he will hopefully be in a position to say okay and not waiver. OM would make this a completely different story if Unbe still wants to be married. 

Unbe have you checked the phone records lately?


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Depends on your view on marriage. Unhealthy relationships can improve. Either way the hard 180 is Step 1.
> 
> He can focus on that and himself while he thinks things through and waits to hear from her again. If she is truly done and wants a divorce he will hopefully be in a position to say okay and not waiver. OM would make this a completely different story if Unbe still wants to bze married.
> 
> Unbe have you checked the phone records lately?


I haven't and we have separate phone accounts. I have no access to them. Honestly I don't think it matters either....

I need to get past the co dependency. I feel that may be the only reason I have been with her is long is fear of being alone. 

Sex has be scarce

Conversation is mundane. 

We have good times sure, but there are also days where I'm wondering what I'm doing.


----------



## Chuck71

She obviously can not maintain the household bills on what she makes vs. what she spends..... so would it

really shock you if she brought in a OM to help with them, or at least try to? Nooooo not my W... guess again.

Unbe... you have been told by numerous people, this is a cycle that WILL continue. Get that in your cranium.

To protect yourself, D her NOW! If she gets the help she needs... date her. Be her b/f.... 

but GTFO of this poisonous M. If you don't and kids come along.... you will be in a he!! you can't even fathom.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I haven't and we have separate phone accounts. I have no access to them. Honestly I don't think it matters either....
> 
> I need to get past the co dependency. I feel that may be the only reason I have been with her is long is *fear of being alone. *
> 
> Sex has be scarce
> 
> Conversation is mundane.
> 
> We have good times sure, but there are also days where I'm wondering what I'm doing.


This is where you define who you are, re-capture who you were.

I have lived alone for well over a year. Overnight guests, oh yeah.

But this is MY place. I've had several try to ease into moving in.... leaving stuff here every time she leaves.

I put that right back in their overnight bag. You want to receive mail here..... dishing your snatch will NOT 

achieve that. I'm looking for a LOT more.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> She obviously can not maintain the household bills on what she makes vs. what she spends..... so would it
> 
> really shock you if she brought in a OM to help with them, or at least try to? Nooooo not my W... guess again.
> 
> Unbe... you have been told by numerous people, this is a cycle that WILL continue. Get that in your cranium.
> 
> To protect yourself, D her NOW! If she gets the help she needs... date her. Be her b/f....
> 
> but GTFO of this poisonous M. If you don't and kids come along.... you will be in a he!! you can't even fathom.


I will get to this point... Is it normal to just want to sit back for a second and wait or is that just me being afraid and a wuss?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> This is where you define who you are, re-capture who you were.
> 
> I have lived alone for well over a year. Overnight guests, oh yeah.
> 
> But this is MY place. I've had several try to ease into moving in.... leaving stuff here every time she leaves.
> 
> I put that right back in their overnight bag. You want to receive mail here..... dishing your snatch will NOT
> 
> achieve that. I'm looking for a LOT more.


im right in the middle of the co dependent cycle once again. I've been like this since I was a teenager. So easy to be sucked right back


----------



## unbe

So crazy how emotions can change hour to hour...I woke up so sad. Felt angry during the day now and feeling indefifferent.

In any event it's been 3 days of NC and 180... Just trying to keep it going


----------



## cbnero

Unbe I'm not sure if you have any religious beliefs re: divorce. But she said she wanted a D and moved out. You filing would definitely escalate things but it might also give her a look at some real consequences for her actions. Just food for thought. Otherwise yes you will have to remain still and in control while your world swirls around you. You filing the D and serving her would be a non codependent move.

Just don't do it hoping to get her back. If you file, do it for your own reasons.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Unbe I'm not sure if you have any religious beliefs re: divorce. But she said she wanted a D and moved out. You filing would definitely escalate things but it might also give her a look at some real consequences for her actions. Just food for thought. Otherwise yes you will have to remain still and in control while your world swirls around you. You filing the D and serving her would be a non codependent move.
> 
> Just don't do it hoping to get her back. If you file, do it for your own reasons.


Thanks for the advice. I do have religious beliefs, but nothing that would put this on hold. The only thing stopping me from filing is fear and insecurities. Fear of loneliness...pushing to hard...

It's scary to feel that because I also know that this is no good for me and the logical sense says wtf and I waiting on


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Is the consensus thought here that OM is involved?
> 
> The more I think the more I feel this may b possible.
> 
> Secretive phone...I had no access to that bill
> Hour to hour and half long bathroom visits without showering daily...


Do you want to know?

If you really want some sort of resolution, make an appointment with a counselor for a joint session and advise her when it is.

If she doesn't show up, go alone.

And, keep it up.

I get the feeling you don't really know what you want. When you do figure it out, what to do next will be obvious.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Do you want to know?
> 
> If you really want some sort of resolution, make an appointment with a counselor for a joint session and advise her when it is.
> 
> If she doesn't show up, go alone.
> 
> And, keep it up.
> 
> I get the feeling you don't really know what you want. When you do figure it out, what to do next will be obvious.


I like this idea... But wouldn't it be breaking the NC code?

I don't think anyone ever wants to confirm cheating... However The more I think about it the more it fits the script


----------



## cbnero

I don't think pursuing her to do MC is the right move. Maybe if she brings it up but if it isn't her idea, then forget it. She effectively abandoned the marriage at this point. 

I think she will let you know when she is ready to talk again. Don't pursue or corner her until then. 

Maybe this is the end, maybe not. Regardless you must end your codependent behavior and thinking. 

Get the 180 under your control. Don't be mean or overly nice. If she wants to talk about the marriage and you aren't mentally or emotionally ready, nothing wrong with saying you do too but can you meet to discuss it at xyz date and time.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe........ if you want to know so it will solidify your decision to D her...... investigate

If you want to know because you MIGHT still want her.... investigate and EXPOSE if she is


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I like this idea... But wouldn't it be breaking the NC code?
> 
> I don't think anyone ever wants to confirm cheating... However The more I think about it the more it fits the script


NC is fine.

But, it sounds like you want resolution.

My recommendation is constructive and strong.

No begging or pleading. Just notify her and see if she shows.

She's in IC and you're not. This is emotional judo to counter that imbalance.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> I don't think pursuing her to do MC is the right move. Maybe if she brings it up but if it isn't her idea, then forget it. She effectively abandoned the marriage at this point.
> 
> I think she will let you know when she is ready to talk again. Don't pursue or corner her until then.
> 
> Maybe this is the end, maybe not. Regardless you must end your codependent behavior and thinking.
> 
> Get the 180 under your control. Don't be mean or overly nice. If she wants to talk about the marriage and you aren't mentally or emotionally ready, nothing wrong with saying you do too but can you meet to discuss it at xyz date and time.


I agree with this. I am not ready to engage her in any way . I can tell you that her intentions are to move back in a week and I'm sure she's expecting me to be gone. That day should be interesting.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I agree with this. I am not ready to engage her in any way . I can tell you that her intentions are to move back in a week and I'm sure she's expecting me to be gone. That day should be interesting.


Do NOT move out.

Show some masculine meddle 

When she comes in.... "Hiyas.... what's for dinner?"

If no response.... smile, leave the room


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I agree with this. I am not ready to engage her in any way . I can tell you that her intentions are to move back in a week and I'm sure she's expecting me to be gone. That day should be interesting.


Time to stand up. Actually, well past time.


----------



## unbe

I have no intentions on leaving so this weekend should get interesting.

Woke up and felt sad, but not as sad as yesterday. 

Not quite sure why sad is my emotion when it should be anger or even relief. 

We'll see what today brings....


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I have no intentions on leaving so this weekend should get interesting.
> 
> Woke up and felt sad, but not as sad as yesterday.
> 
> Not quite sure why sad is my emotion when it should be anger or even relief.
> 
> We'll see what today brings....


Unbe,

We all have dreams. In fact, we see the world through our a prism of our own making. When you thought about your "future", you saw yourself with this beautiful woman for years. She was to be your parter, playmate, mother of your children - your better half. She was "going" to be the one to pick you up when you felt at your worst and encourage you to go on... admire your striving and make a home for your family in the same manner as your parents did.

It's NORMAL to be sad this vision never came to be. It's NORMAL to be sad she wasn't up to it. It's NORMAL to be disappointed with the dramatic swings and the pointlessness of her behavior.

As M. Scott Peck says, "bracket all that stuff". Put a bracket around it and think about something else. Keep your own **** together. Remember, you still have many roles in your life. You go to work. You interact with friends. Many people count on you and those relationships are successful.

You've been jerking around with this for 2 years. It won't be decided in some climactic showdown. For you see, that's your own contribution to this drama. It's fixing behavior. As a man, decide what YOU want to do next and DO it. One thing you do not wish to do is move out - especially because she says so. There's been more than enough of that.

When she questions why you're there, "Because I wish to be here"

Remember, talk much less. Do much more.


----------



## cbnero

Just focus on the 180 and yourself. 

Even the dream of getting "closure" is extremely unlikely to happen, if ever. You need to practice identifying your thought patterns and behavior that is not helpful to your recovery. Recognize it when it happens, allow yourself to experience the emotion for 1 minute, then put it to bed mentally and move on. The faster you can process removing the negative emotions from your life the faster you will recover.

Let go of the rest. Many things in life are beyond your control. The harder you fight it, the more it will hurt.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe,
> 
> We all have dreams. In fact, we see the world through our a prism of our own making. When you thought about your "future", you saw yourself with this beautiful woman for years. She was to be your parter, playmate, mother of your children - your better half. She was "going" to be the one to pick you up when you felt at your worst and encourage you to go on... admire your striving and make a home for your family in the same manner as your parents did.
> 
> It's NORMAL to be sad this vision never came to be. It's NORMAL to be sad she wasn't up to it. It's NORMAL to be disappointed with the dramatic swings and the pointlessness of her behavior.
> 
> As M. Scott Peck says, "bracket all that stuff". Put a bracket around it and think about something else. Keep your own **** together. Remember, you still have many roles in your life. You go to work. You interact with friends. Many people count on you and those relationships are successful.
> 
> You've been jerking around with this for 2 years. It won't be decided in some climactic showdown. For you see, that's your own contribution to this drama. It's fixing behavior. As a man, decide what YOU want to do next and DO it. One thing you do not wish to do is move out - especially because she says so. There's been more than enough of that.
> 
> When she questions why you're there, "Because I wish to be here"
> 
> Remember, talk much less. Do much more.



Excellent advice. 

when we got back together I had asked her to make some changes. The most important to me and I stressed this was when things get rough again, that she promises me not to just run. We try and work through it and exercise all options prior to getting to that point. Unfortunately she did the exact opposite and that is not something I look at litely.

Matchbox has been crying everyday (I haven't seen it but that's what she's been telling me) because she so sad and her life is so hard. Her family life is messed up, her work isn't good but her marriage was good. This conversation was had about 2 weeks ago. Now, she's moved out back at her parents house(so she says)

I get what your saying, make decisions for me. Don't worry about her and how my decisions will affect her. I will get to this point....

I read my thread last night and saw what I was capable of and the progress I made. It gave great hope that the future will get better and easier. Just need to get there now.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Just focus on the 180 and yourself.
> 
> Even the dream of getting "closure" is extremely unlikely to happen, if ever. You need to practice identifying your thought patterns and behavior that is not helpful to your recovery. Recognize it when it happens, allow yourself to experience the emotion for 1 minute, then put it to bed mentally and move on. The faster you can process removing the negative emotions from your life the faster you will recover.
> 
> Let go of the rest. Many things in life are beyond your control. The harder you fight it, the more it will hurt.


Understood and noted.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe..... what similarities do you see in yourself now as to... 2014?


----------



## unbe

Code:







Chuck71 said:


> Unbe..... what similarities do you see in yourself now as to... 2014?


Unfortunately I haven't changed much. I am still codependent no question and honestly didn't realize it until she left again.

I did put myself first and my needs first for a time but over the past 4-5 months have reverted back to trying to please her.

Again I am not without fault here however I still don't feel I deserve to just be deserted like this. That statement seems very whiney


----------



## Chuck71

You recognize it. It's like a drunk admitting -I have a drinking problem- 50% battle already won.

Worry about YOU..... love yourself....

When you love yourself, the world will follow


----------



## unbe

Why is it I keep thinking how much work it's going to take to find someone else, start up a new relationship and work all the way back to a marriage...

Why on earth would I be thinking this at this time????

I feel these types of toughts are what make me try and fix my current situation even though I know it's unfixable.


----------



## Chuck71

Meeting someone is the fun part.... dating, vacations, sex every night

It's the M that the true BS comes out


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Meeting someone is the fun payrt.... dating, vacations, sex every night
> 
> It's the M that the true BS comes out


Lol I undetsnad that. I just don't get why that's on my mind at this time...


----------



## Chuck71

Potential life without her...... the possible "what ifs"

New life, new ambition.... 

But what about the past??????


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Potential life without her...... the possible "what ifs"
> 
> New life, new ambition....
> 
> But what about the past??????


Past has good points far overweighed by bad points. However, none of that matters. What matters and what I keep thinking of is this...

This is now the 3rd time she has left and IMO none where warranted. How on earth do I allow myself to potentially allow a 4th time??!


----------



## thenub

You don't!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

If you lie in the weeds of co-dependency.... you will be on your 40th before you know it.

How do you think you would feel then?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> If you lie in the weeds of co-dependency.... you will be on your 40th before you know it.
> 
> How do you think you would feel then?


I'd imagine a lot worse. 

Question.... Matchbox is under the impression that I am moving out and plans on coming back to the house this sunday. 

Do I avoid the drama by letting her know ahead of time I am not leaving or just let her come home and find out that way?


----------



## cbnero

You do not answer to her or owe her anything!

Also she left... if you were smart you would take anything of value and put it somewhere secure and say nothing. She will likely not notice it is gone. Hey she left - F her!

Honestly if you really want to do something awesome --- have a party going at your place on Sunday with all your friends over watching football for when she returns. Make sure there are women there. Now that would be sweet justice.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I'd imagine a lot worse.
> 
> Question.... Matchbox is under the impression that I am moving out and plans on coming back to the house this sunday.
> 
> Do I avoid the drama by letting her know ahead of time I am not leaving or just let her come home and find out that way?


Say NOTHING. Dammit. Internalize this. Unpredictable and mysterious is attractive.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Drain the emotion. Role-play it.

"What are you doing here?"

It's my place.

"I thought you'd be gone"

I'm not.

Let HER decide how to deal with that.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Let me add....

Unpredictable is mysterious, attractive, and STRONG.

Emotional strength is your ally.

Use it.


----------



## ReturntoZero

She can no longer count on you chickening out when there's a showdown. Showdowns don't matter to you.

You are the magnificent independent man she first noticed.

Be him.


----------



## unbe

Love the advice and will follow it. For some reason my mother is pushing me the other way but I will stay the course.

Woke up today feeling indifferent. NC still in effect. Have had so,ex points of weakness where instead of contacting her i picked up a book or texted a friend.


----------



## cbnero

What does your mom have to say about all this?


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> What does your mom have to say about all this?


She's done with all of this for the most part. She wants to keep the drama down


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe.... listen to the same group in your signature's other song...... Someday I'll be Saturday Night. Can you relate?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe.... listen to the same group in your signature's other song...... Someday I'll be Saturday Night. Can you relate?


Absoultley. I tend to stay away from music while I'm depressed as it just seems to add to it. This On the other hand seems like a good one to latch onto and be my theme some during this time!


----------



## unbe

So tomorrow I have a party with some x co workers and friends I haven't seen in months. These are all my friends and not mutual.

I wasn't going to go as of last week but since my schedule as since cleared I am thinking I may.

Question is how do it avoid ruining this night by continuously talking about this. What statement can I come up with to just cut down the question where is matchbox?


----------



## Chuck71

Anytime you break up with someone serious, there's always a song.... always. I wrote about this on my LaD thread. 

But to para-phrase.... 1st love December 90-January 91... it was Vixen "It Wouldn't be Love." 2nd love 

(September 94) was Bon Jovi "Always." XW (November-December 12) was Keith Urban "You'll Think of Me."

And UG (October-November 14) Danger Danger "I Still Think about You."

The first two were 20-25 years ago. The last two... I prefer to just feel the hurt head on... do the rabbit hole.

I feel it helps you recover much quicker. I'm not a country music fan, unless you mean old country 

from the 1960s and 1970s. How I latched on to Keith Urban is beyond me. But all four served 

their purpose.

Slippery when Wet was my "coming of age" album.


----------



## Chuck71

Matchbox is visiting her mother. By the way... those earrings set off your eyes

Guys...... Who do you like in the wild card games this weekend?

Easy as pie


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Matchbox is visiting her mother. By the way... those earrings set off your eyes
> 
> Guys...... Who do you like in the wild card games this weekend?
> 
> Easy as pie


Got the point. Anyway another day gone, NC going strong. Feeling good tonight going to bed. I'm hoping the disconnect comes sooner as this is the second time I'm going through this.


----------



## farsidejunky

Washington, KC, Seattle and Pittsburgh 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Odd the road teams are favored in all four.

Two words..........

playoff realignment


----------



## cbnero

Skol.


----------



## unbe

Woke up today feeling a little better than yesterday. She's still the first thought on my mind unfortunately but the time will come when that's not the case. 

Got the party tonight so that should be a good break. Tomorrow I'm going to a friends to watch the games. Sunday is going to be interesting and a big test. I wish I had a little more time to have to deal with this but we can't always have things happen on our time tables so it is what it is.

GB, Pitt, Sea, Hou


----------



## unbe

Just made an appt to see an new IC...excited to restart and commit to my personal growth


----------



## Chuck71

Remember..... a good IC will challenge you. A great IC will call you out to the point you cuss him / her

under your breath. The moment you realize an IC is a co-pay collector, get up and leave.

I think Houston has what it takes to pull an upset but KC has the weapons to knock off New England next week.

Green Bay should beat Washington.... but anyone remember 2010.... Seattle won NFC West at 7-9.... knocked off

defending Super Bowl champ Saints? Saints were 10 point road favorites.

A betting man should take the under in the Ice Bowl. If AP runs loose, Seattle will lose.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Remember..... a good IC will challenge you. A great IC will call you out to the point you cuss him / her
> 
> under your breath. The moment you realize an IC is a co-pay collector, get up and leave.
> 
> I think Houston has what it takes to pull an upset but KC has the weapons to knock off New England next week.
> 
> Green Bay should beat Washington.... but anyone remember 2010.... Seattle won NFC West at 7-9.... knocked off
> 
> defending Super Bowl champ Saints? Saints were 10 point road favorites.
> 
> A betting man should take the under in the Ice Bowl. If AP runs loose, Seattle will lose.


My previous IC got to that point but I just kept going because it was comfortable...sound familiar???!!!


----------



## Chuck71

What did Conrad tell you about being complacent about two years ago?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> What did Conrad tell you about being complacent about two years ago?[/QUOTE
> 
> I'm sure whatever he said I did the opposite. I am owning up to my part in this 1000%.
> 
> I do have a question for the crew.
> 
> Why is it that I don't seem to care what matchbox is up too, where she is or who she's with?
> 
> I mean looking back over the past few months there are signs all over the place of a cheating.
> 
> Phone never out of sight
> Bathroom trips of 90 min daily not showering
> Unexplained long work hours
> 
> It's extremely likely and very possible that this is the case. However now that she's out me doing whatever, that's not what I'm upset about.


----------



## unbe

Been re reading co dependent and kicking myself for allowing this to happen again

Also readying regroups thread. About 1/2 was done. Some great advice in there


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Chuck71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did Conrad tell you about being complacent about two years ago?[/QUOTE
> 
> I'm sure whatever he said I did the opposite. I am owning up to my part in this 1000%.
> 
> I do have a question for the crew.
> 
> Why is it that I don't seem to care what matchbox is up too, where she is or who she's with?
> 
> I mean looking back over the past few months there are signs all over the place of a cheating.
> 
> Phone never out of sight _cheater script_
> Bathroom trips of 90 min daily _cheater script_
> not showering _very unusual_
> Unexplained long work hours _cheater script_
> 
> It's extremely likely and very possible that this is the case. However now that she's out me doing whatever, that's not what I'm upset about.
> 
> 
> 
> VAR toilet.... you'll find your answer.
> 
> Group's thread is very unique
Click to expand...


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did Conrad tell you about being complacent about two years ago?[/QUOTE
> 
> I'm sure whatever he said I did the opposite. I am owning up to my part in this 1000%.
> 
> I do have a question for the crew.
> 
> Why is it that I don't seem to care what matchbox is up too, where she is or who she's with?
> 
> I mean looking back over the past few months there are signs all over the place of a cheating.
> 
> Phone never out of sight _cheater script_
> Bathroom trips of 90 min daily _cheater script_
> not showering _very unusual_
> Unexplained long work hours _cheater script_
> 
> It's extremely likely and very possible that this is the case. However now that she's out me doing whatever, that's not what I'm upset about.
> 
> 
> 
> VAR toilet.... you'll find your answer.
> 
> Group's thread is very unique
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately it's too late for that as she is gone already.
> 
> Anyway another day has started. Woke up sad again this morning but not quite sure why. I'm sure the answers will come
> 
> Have plans tonight to watch the games at my friends house. Will probably hang around the house for some of the day. slowly getting my appetite back
Click to expand...


----------



## Chuck71

Be straight..... IF you investigate and learn she has been cheating, would it bother you?

It's perfectly okay to say it does.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Be straight..... IF you investigate and learn she has been cheating, would it bother you?
> 
> It's perfectly okay to say it does.


I don't know, probably. 

I think it would just validate what I have suspected all along. 

I can tell you it wouldn't surprise me one bit


----------



## Chuck71

If she did not..... what is your desired outlook?

If she had another EA, what is your desired outlook?

If she had (what I think) another PA, what is your desired outlook?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I don't know, probably.
> 
> I think it would just validate what I have suspected all along.
> 
> I can tell you it wouldn't surprise me one bit


Here's the way I looked at it.

When I was a dumbass, my wife could have (or could have not) cheated on me and it wouldn't have made one whit of difference.

It's difficult to blame someone for disrespecting and violating an oath to someone with his head planted firmly up his ass.

She cheats on me now? Over in a heartbeat. Not even a second thought.

Work on yourself unbe. You've largely wasted 2 years in this same apot. Why not give it a try?

How many more years are you going to waste?

Don't think for a minute cutting it off with her improves you in any way, shape, or form.

You'll be right back here within 5 years with someone new if you don't get your act together.


----------



## Chuck71

You can't change her but you can change you.

But when you change yourself, others notice, we notice...... she notices.

I'm not saying change for the better and take her back..... change for you.....

the world will notice. If your W doesn't, there is a female out there somewhere, doing cartwheels she didn't.

Life is a game of chance but you can dismiss most of the "chances"


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> If she did not..... what is your desired outlook?
> 
> If she had another EA, what is your desired outlook?
> 
> If she had (what I think) another PA, what is your desired outlook?


Chuck honestly I believe in a marriage you try to work through anything. I'd be willing to try and fix and issue with counseling and her taking the right steps as well as myself. 

With that being said... I can not keep putting myself through this abdonment every 6 months.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> You can't change her but you can change you.
> 
> But when you change yourself, others notice, we notice...... she notices.
> 
> I'm not saying change for the better and take her back..... change for you.....
> 
> the world will notice. If your W doesn't, there is a female out there somewhere, doing cartwheels she didn't.
> 
> Life is a game of chance but you can dismiss most of the "chances"


Can't agree with this statement more...I was on the path last time and I let myself fall back into complacency. I take full responsibility here


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Can't agree with this statement more...I was on the path last time and I let myself fall back into complacency. I take full responsibility here


What's your plan this time?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't agree with this statement more...I was on the path last time and I let myself fall back into complacency. I take full responsibility here
> 
> 
> 
> What's your plan this time?
Click to expand...

Start up IC again and not quit it

Re-read all literature that helped me last time. 

Find a hobby. The gym is a possibility but I do have some medical issues which prevents me from doing most there 

Last time I rushed into another relationships and it was wayyyyy to early. I am setting myself a personal goal of 3 months before I even consider dating. 

Can you suggest anything?


----------



## unbe

Big day for unbe! Need to show a strong front if matchbox decides to show up. No weakness!!!

I woke up and it's hard to get the day started but once I do I start to feel instantly better. 

Hey it's been a week and I survived. My next goal is to not only survive but to also strive!


----------



## unbe

So the day is almost over and no sign of matchbox...feeling releaved.

Is that bad?


----------



## cbnero

Is she waiting for you to leave for work tomorrow? Not to put you into paranoia, but my ex came and cleaned the place out with no warning while I had both our children at my son's birthday party. Came home to the place half gone with no discussion.

Personally I would trust this wacko wife you have whatsoever....


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> So the day is almost over and no sign of matchbox...feeling releaved.
> 
> Is that bad?


Only if feeling relieved means you're actually afraid.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Is she waiting for you to leave for work tomorrow? Not to put you into paranoia, but my ex came and cleaned the place out with no warning while I had both our children at my son's birthday party. Came home to the place half gone with no discussion.
> 
> Personally I would trust this wacko wife you have whatsoever....


I work on Sunday's so the day to do this would have been yesterday. Keep in mind she isn't expecting me to still be here. 

In her warped mind she "gave me a week" to move out


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the day is almost over and no sign of matchbox...feeling releaved.
> 
> Is that bad?
> 
> 
> 
> Only if feeling relieved means you're actually afraid.
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on this?


----------



## cbnero

I'd change the locks


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I work on Sunday's so the day to do this would have been yesterday. Keep in mind she isn't expecting me to still be here.
> 
> In her warped mind she "gave me a week" to move out


In the past... with high conflict, she ran, you chased. And that got you where?

You improve yourself.... she notices, returns, you cave. Right?

For it to stop Luke... you're going to have to face Vader


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> In the past... with high conflict, she ran, you chased. And that got you where?
> 
> You improve yourself.... she notices, returns, you cave. Right?
> 
> For it to stop Luke... you're going to have to face Vader


It got me temporary stay in crazy world until she got bored/someone else sparked interest? Then. I was out.

I want to face vader but my light saber needs to be recharged...it was bright and powerful last year but now it's very weak


----------



## unbe

Re-read awareness...I feel that is something you need to read weekly until it sinks in.

In the middle of CDNM...I'm am idiot for allowing myself to slip back into this


----------



## unbe

Guys help me make sense of the timeline over the past few weeks...

Early December..matchbox claims to have problems with the amount of debt we are in. Wants to contribute towards paying it down but can't afford too. Asks for a copy of all the bills, I send it.

Two days later buys a new coat- $1000

Two days after that mentions are mom wants to take us away for Xmas. She is willing to pay for the airfare and hotel but we need to pay for everything else. I agree, we decide to go to Vegas.

Days leading up are status quo...she starts her winter break (teacher) and I continue to work my normal shift. No change in phone privacy or bathroom trips. No sex

We go to Vegas, have sex once. She proclaims to me how she can't live without me and I'm the best thing to ever happen to her.

We are back, another week of her being off, me working.

Sunday she moves out stating she can't live this life any longer. After blowing up about finding a charge on our credit card from me.


----------



## Chuck71

So it's okay for her to buy a $1k coat but you are not allowed to buy $7.14 of fishing tackle?

Don't seem right to me. Buys coat, then leaves.... used covert contact to do so.... 

She HAD to have a reason to leave. But she had to say it was you..... 

Whose name are the phones in?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> So it's okay for her to buy a $1k coat but you are not allowed to buy $7.14 of fishing tackle?
> 
> Don't seem right to me. Buys coat, then leaves.... used covert contact to do so....
> 
> She HAD to have a reason to leave. But she had to say it was you.....
> 
> Whose name are the phones in?


Her is hers, mine in mine. I have no access to the records but I dont honestly think I need it. It all seems to fit the script!

Not to mention her last comment to me when she asked her I wS going to live (again assuming I was moving out lol) that I must be going to one of my whor3$ houses I have been f ing over the past 5 years. Wow


----------



## Chuck71

Funny.... the one who screams the loudest is usually the guilty party. 

After she convinced herself you HAD to be cheating on her.... that gives her validation to bounce on a guy.

If this is your last rodeo with her... learn from what's going to happen.

It hasn't gotten ugly..... yet. Is her parents well-to-do?

When she moves back in, she wants you out..... to bring her new toy home.

When you refuse to vacate until D is final..... yeah..... fireworks.

Get a VAR to keep on you at all times... she may claim you hit / pushed her to get you out / RO

Set up hidden nanny cams where you usually argue at.

I am going to assume she is seeing someone but..... you never know until you investigate.

Since you are M she can't force you to leave.

If she gets mad and punches, shoves, scratches you.... call 911 immediately.

Her being a teacher.... this may give you leverage. If it gets ugly.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Funny.... the one who screams the loudest is usually the guilty party.
> 
> After she convinced herself you HAD to be cheating on her.... that gives her validation to bounce on a guy.
> 
> If this is your last rodeo with her... learn from what's going to happen.
> 
> It hasn't gotten ugly..... yet. Is her parents well-to-do?
> 
> When she moves back in, she wants you out..... to bring her new toy home.
> 
> When you refuse to vacate until D is final..... yeah..... fireworks.
> 
> Get a VAP to keep on you at all times... she may claim you hit / pushed her to get you out / RO
> 
> Set up hidden nanny cams where you usually argue at.
> 
> I am going to assume she is seeing someone but..... you never know until you investigate.
> 
> Since you are M she can't force you to leave.
> 
> If she gets mad and punches, shoves, scratches you.... call 911 immediately.
> 
> Her being a teacher.... this may give you leverage. If it gets ugly.



What's funny is I don't think we will argue, not in person anyway. She's a runner..remember. I can see email barrages and lawyer threats.

Her parents are not well off

Question though, why would her being a teacher give me leverage?


----------



## unbe

Side note, a friend of mine told me she already opened up a new Twitter account and Instagram in her maiden name, why do I get the feeling this has been planned for quite some time?


----------



## Chuck71

If she gets physical with you, slap, scratch, etc. that today is DV and she would go to jail.

It might very well cost her... her job. But if you make more.... hello alimony...

In some counties.... you can have her picked up for DV but can keep it from going to trial / public record.....

IF she plays fair in the D. You can still do this in small counties, I've seen it done.

Your county.... who knows? Nice leverage but wouldn't be so great if she gets fired.

If emails / texts are where she blows up, save them... and if she gets nasty....

I'm sorry you feel this way or I am unable to converse with you while you use derogatory language


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Side note, a friend of mine told me she already opened up a new Twitter account and Instagram in her maiden name, why do I get the feeling this has been planned for quite some time?


Because it has ....... the $1k coat .... whose name is the CC in?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Because it has ....... the $1k coat .... whose name is the CC in?


The cc is in her name...


----------



## Chuck71

LOL .... usually they're in the Hs name.... as the W likes to buy herself a parting gift HE pays for


----------



## farsidejunky

Why does it matter at this point?

She is a lousy partner.

Let her go and don't look back.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## cbnero

I agree. If she is making moves while she led you on then you need to protect yourself asap. Get a lawyer and get this filed and her served. You're still married and until D is filed any debt is still marital debt and half yours. Time to pull the plug on this one. Sorry unbe.


----------



## ReturntoZero

cbnero said:


> I agree. If she is making moves while she led you on then you need to protect yourself asap. Get a lawyer and get this filed and her served. You're still married and until D is filed any debt is still marital debt and half yours. Time to pull the plug on this one. Sorry unbe.


Unbe is returning to ground zero


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> I agree. If she is making moves while she led you on then you need to protect yourself asap. Get a lawyer and get this filed and her served. You're still married and until D is filed any debt is still marital debt and half yours. Time to pull the plug on this one. Sorry unbe.


I am understanding this more and more each day and feel that I am very close to pulling the trigger.

Woke up this morning feeling pretty good. Starting IC up this week, joined a divorce group. Starting to put the pieces back together.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe is returning to ground zero


Elaborate on this statement please...


----------



## unbe

Been reading regroups thread and it sparked something in me...why the F am I waiting to push this through.

Made a meeting with a lawyer in Thursday...lets get this pushed through.


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Been reading regroups thread and it sparked something in me...why the F am I waiting to push this through.
> 
> Made a meeting with a lawyer in Thursday...lets get this pushed through.


It's about damn time.

Now be who you say.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

About fvcking time.............. date her after the D, be her b/f......

Then when you walk away you just need your shoes n toothpaste


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> About fvcking time.............. date her after the D, be her b/f......
> 
> Then when you walk away you just need your shoes n toothpaste


Honestly the more I think about this, this is my feeling.....

This divorce is cursed and it needs to be ended.

My wedding ring was stolen out of my car at the car wash last week...that's a sign!

If after all of this is done, I decide to entertain craziness again, I will.

If I'm smart and grown, I will never entertain craziness again. The 180 will help me work on this!


----------



## unbe

Just got off the phone with the pastor who married us... He was very helpful last time.

He basically suggested to divorce which is crazy coming from a pastor IMO (mind you he has known her since she was very young and his her pastor)

He said She will never get what she is looking for....because it doesn't exsist.

This will be a constant game of me chasing her, getting her then her running again when she feels she needs to be chased. The cycle needs to be broken. Unless she is willing to seriously work on herself this will never work, unfortunately she doesn't think she's wrong in any way.

I think he works for TAM...scary how the sentiments are so close.


----------



## Chuck71

Very compelling..... coming from HER pastor. It is her job to seek help for her issues. Maybe she will....

During that time, after you are D, meet, date, see what's out there. You just may meet what you "thought 

Matchbox would be" for you. Maybe.... just maybe.... five years down the road you run into her

and she has worked on herself. Chances are slim to none.....

Most likely she will Trampoline from guy to guy while you meet someone who makes Matchbox

a distant memory.

Want to know what happens when you try over and over to get Matchbox to "wake up"

Scroll back to the three threads I posted of Zillard's journey.


----------



## Mr The Other

unbe said:


> Just got off the phone with the pastor who married us... He was very helpful last time.
> 
> He basically suggested to divorce which is crazy coming from a pastor IMO (mind you he has known her since she was very young and his her pastor)
> 
> He said She will never get what she is looking for....because it doesn't exsist.
> 
> This will be a constant game of me chasing her, getting her then her running again when she feels she needs to be chased. The cycle needs to be broken. Unless she is willing to seriously work on herself this will never work, unfortunately she doesn't think she's wrong in any way.
> 
> I think he works for TAM...scary how the sentiments are so close.


[sexism]It is rare for a woman to look back on a relationship and consider it her fault[/sexism].

Appreciate what your Pastor did for you. I had a Catholic Priest assure me I was well off out of it and to get a anullment as soon as possible. I also had her best friend in Denmark side with me after the split. There will be some posters on this forum who will tell you that you were a terrible and abusive man, ignore them and God Speed!


----------



## Chuck71

Mr The Other said:


> [sexism]It is rare for a woman to look back on a relationship and consider it her fault[/sexism].
> 
> Appreciate what your Pastor did for you. I had a Catholic Priest assure me I was well off out of it and to get a anullment as soon as possible. I also had her best friend in Denmark side with me after the split. *There will be some posters on this forum who will tell you that you were a terrible and abusive man, ignore them* and God Speed!


I can name one with three letters


----------



## cbnero

Does it rhyme with STD?


----------



## Chuck71

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

how'd you know?


----------



## ReturntoZero

Unbe,

Ground zero means you're right back where you started.

This time, choose the right path.

Chasing NEVER works with the disordered - NEVER.

It may feel "mean", but the only way to exit the Drama Triangle is as the prosecutor. You let her experience natural consequences without extending the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## Chuck71

The Three Faces of Victim ? An Overview of the Drama Triangle


----------



## unbe

Was feeling weak last night but didn't reach out...just had hard time falling asleep.

Knowing my second marriage has failed is what keeps me up at night...not wondering what I could have done because I felt no matter what I did it wouldn't have mattered, just wondering why I didn't see that matchbox wasn't and isn't the one. Yes, I do realize that to be true

Woke up this morning feeling ok. Tomorrow is a big day for unbe, looking forward toward taking a step in the right direction


----------



## Chuck71

Asset-wise.... are there any? 

Home.... any equity build up?


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Was feeling weak last night but didn't reach out...just had hard time falling asleep.
> 
> 
> 
> Knowing my second marriage has failed is what keeps me up at night...not wondering what I could have done because I felt no matter what I did it wouldn't have mattered, just wondering why I didn't see that matchbox wasn't and isn't the one. Yes, I do realize that to be true
> 
> 
> 
> Woke up this morning feeling ok. Tomorrow is a big day for unbe, looking forward toward taking a step in the right direction



Don't beat yourself up about it. 

In fact be thankful. You needed to learn this lesson. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ceegee

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe,
> 
> 
> 
> Ground zero means you're right back where you started.
> 
> 
> 
> This time, choose the right path.
> 
> 
> 
> Chasing NEVER works with the disordered - NEVER.
> 
> 
> 
> It may feel "mean", but the only way to exit the Drama Triangle is as the prosecutor. You let her experience natural consequences without extending the benefit of the doubt.



Lol...

It works when they want it to. 

When they don't it doesn't. 

Both cases, though, it reinforces your weakness in their mind. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Asset-wise.... are there any?
> 
> Home.... any equity build up?


Other than the equity in the home, there isn't much else tbh...


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Don't beat yourself up about it.
> 
> In fact be thankful. You needed to learn this lesson.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just wish I had learned this lesson two years ago.


----------



## Chuck71

You do know you are entitled to 50% of the built-up equity.... I doubt you care about getting it 

but can be used as bargaining chip. Remember Unbe....

Fear leads to anger

Anger leads to hate

Hate leads to the Dark Side....


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> I just wish I had learned this lesson two years ago.



First step in healing and moving on is forgiving yourself. 

Tons of fantastic women out there and plenty of time to find the right one. 

She has set you free. Take the gift that it is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> You do know you are entitled to 50% of the built-up equity.... I doubt you care about getting it
> 
> but can be used as bargaining chip. Remember Unbe....
> 
> Fear leads to anger
> 
> Anger leads to hate
> 
> Hate leads to the Dark Side....


Yea, I care about it. As much as my heart fs with my emotions my head will not allow me to get railroaded financially...


----------



## Chuck71

use the equity you would get to counter her whining about alimony.....

"No.... she wouldn't do that"

Yeah.... you once said the same thing about your W not cheating / straying / abandoning you too


----------



## unbe

Chuck I have no doubt she will go after that, she did last time although claimed it to be all her lawyers doing....

The rug sweeping that occurred last time is astounding to me and I take full responsibility for it.


----------



## cbnero

Has she broken NC or came to the home since leaving?


----------



## ReturntoZero

Unbe,

Real question for you.

Is there some "cosmic scorecard" that says second marriages "have" to work or your get the Scarlett Letter for life?

When the jackass tells you to forgive yourself, this is what he means.

I'll tell you again.

LEARN THE LESSONS

There is no shame in a "second one" getting away if she wasn't the "right one"

How do you know who the "right one" is? Well, (broken record time), you work on loving you until you instantaneously and irrevocably reject bad treatment when it starts.

You don't argue.

You don't compromise.

You just "exit"

THIS is emotional strength. And, that's what gets respect.

If you love yourself enough, you recognize the crap for what it is, and you simply refuse to take it. Therapy is part of this, but the most important part of it (for me) was having a "safe man". A place to dump my feelings for feedback and examination.

It looks like you have several candidates here for that duty. Hell, even I'm one. Make use of us. Get this right. You only have one life, and time is awasting.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Chuck I have no doubt she will go after that, she did last time although claimed it to be all her lawyers doing....
> 
> The rug sweeping that occurred last time is astounding to me and I take full responsibility for it.


NO MORE

Vindication is not at hand.

Read my thread about the "toolkit" with understanding. This relationship will never be what you hoped it would. Let go of that vision and adapt.


----------



## Marc878

I just read your whole thread.

You should go back to page 1 and read it over.

You're on a merry go round and can't get off.

Why?


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Has she broken NC or came to the home since leaving?


No contact had been made


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Real question for you.
> 
> Is there some "cosmic scorecard" that says second marriages "have" to work or your get the Scarlett Letter for life?
> 
> When the jackass tells you to forgive yourself, this is what he means.
> 
> I'll tell you again.
> 
> LEARN THE LESSONS
> 
> There is no shame in a "second one" getting away if she wasn't the "right one"
> 
> How do you know who the "right one" is? Well, (broken record time), you work on loving you until you instantaneously and irrevocably reject bad treatment when it starts.
> 
> You don't argue.
> 
> You don't compromise.
> 
> You just "exit"
> 
> THIS is emotional strength. And, that's what gets respect.
> 
> If you love yourself enough, you recognize the crap for what it is, and you simply refuse to take it. Therapy is part of this, but the most important part of it (for me) was having a "safe man". A place to dump my feelings for feedback and examination.
> 
> It looks like you have several candidates here for that duty. Hell, even I'm one. Make use of us. Get this right. You only have one life, and time is awasting.


Your right. I do appreciate all the feedback. I don't know why I am so hung up on this


----------



## unbe

Marc878 said:


> I just read your whole thread.
> 
> You should go back to page 1 and read it over.
> 
> You're on a merry go round and can't get off.
> 
> Why?


Truth, I'm insecure. It was comfortable and I fear change.


----------



## Chuck71

To grow Luke.... you have to face Vader. NO way around this.

If you learn the right path to becoming a Jedi..... fear will be defeated.

As then.... will Vader. After you face him for the 1st time.... it gets easier and easier.

Read my two short threads started back in 2012..... I was consumed by fear.

I faced Vader.... several times. Put it this way.... Vader can walk into my kitchen Sunday while

I am making homemade chili, spinning music on Utube, watching NFL football and surfing Ebay

for a few cards I need for a set. Vader walk in.... I don't need a light saber anymore....

because the fear has gone.

It is perfectly okay to grieve a loss.... like the W you thought she was. I did my 4th love....

but this is temporary. Fear.... can last a lifetime.

Your largest opponent is not Matchbox... but your own fears.


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> Fear leads to anger
> 
> Anger leads to hate
> 
> Hate leads to the Dark Side....


One of my favorite quotes...even if it was spoken by Yoda.

What does this mean to you unbe? How do you think this applies in a marriage?

Think about ways matchbox made you mad. What was the source of your anger? Was it really anger or fear?


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Chuck71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fear leads to anger
> 
> Anger leads to hate
> 
> Hate leads to the Dark Side....
> 
> 
> 
> One of my favorite quotes...even if it was spoken by Yoda.
> 
> What does this mean to you unbe? How do you think this applies in a marriage?
> 
> Think about ways matchbox made you mad. What was the source of your anger? Was it really anger or fear?
Click to expand...

The thing i got angry about most was the lack of times sex was initiated. I'm the beginning I couldn't keep her off me. The last 2 years it was like negotiating a hostage situation. 

I was always afraid to bring it up because I didn't want to cause a fight but was living unhappily because of it. 

Also I had anger about the lacy of respect I got when it came to keeping in touch with me during the day. I wouldn't hear from her for hours sometimes and she knew this bothered me but never bothered to try and change 

I'm sure there is more but this is what immediately comes to mind


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> The thing i got angry about most was the lack of times sex was initiated. I'm the beginning I couldn't keep her off me. The last 2 years it was like negotiating a hostage situation.
> 
> I was always afraid to bring it up because I didn't want to cause a fight but was living unhappily because of it.
> 
> Also I had anger about the lacy of respect I got when it came to keeping in touch with me during the day. I wouldn't hear from her for hours sometimes and she knew this bothered me but never bothered to try and change
> 
> I'm sure there is more but this is what immediately comes to mind


It's funny how many of us men will accept a sexless marriage because we're either afraid of losing our wives or afraid of how we'll be viewed for demanding sex.

That fear holds you hostage. It resulsts in passive aggressive behaviors. It manifests itself in anger; anger about anything other than what you're really upset about. 

Look, when you love yourself you won't accept a sexless marriage. When you respect yourself and are confident in who you are and what your needs are you're able to express your needs. And you're able to do so without being controlling or manipulative. 

When you reach this point, you're able to say, "look spouse, I will not allow myself to remain in a sexless marriage. Either we work on our sex life together or we go our separate ways to find more compatible partners."

No woman deserves or wants to be put on a pedastal. When you do this you sacrifice your needs for hers in fear of losing her. This will cause her to lose respect for you. The exact opposite of what you are trying to acheive.


----------



## unbe

Just met with the pastor. 

He listened to our current situation and emphatically stressed to end this and move on. Under no circumstances to get back with her. Seems to be a common theme amongst everyone I encounter. 

He repeated that sentement 4 times in the 30 minutes we met. 

Again, this is her pastor who has known her for 25 years.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing i got angry about most was the lack of times sex was initiated. I'm the beginning I couldn't keep her off me. The last 2 years it was like negotiating a hostage situation.
> 
> I was always afraid to bring it up because I didn't want to cause a fight but was living unhappily because of it.
> 
> Also I had anger about the lacy of respect I got when it came to keeping in touch with me during the day. I wouldn't hear from her for hours sometimes and she knew this bothered me but never bothered to try and change
> 
> I'm sure there is more but this is what immediately comes to mind
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how many of us men will accept a sexless marriage because we're either afraid of losing our wives or afraid of how we'll be viewed for demanding sex.
> 
> That fear holds you hostage. It resulsts in passive aggressive behaviors. It manifests itself in anger; anger about anything other than what you're really upset about.
> 
> Look, when you love yourself you won't accept a sexless marriage. When you respect yourself and are confident in who you are and what your needs are you're able to express your needs. And you're able to do so without being controlling or manipulative.
> 
> When you reach this point, you're able to say, "look spouse, I will not allow myself to remain in a sexless marriage. Either we work on our sex life together or we go our separate ways to find more compatible partners."
> 
> No woman deserves or wants to be put on a pedastal. When you do this you sacrifice your needs for hers in fear of losing her. This will cause her to lose respect for you. The exact opposite of what you are trying to acheive.
Click to expand...

Amen. Great advice!


----------



## ButtPunch

Smart Pastor


----------



## cbnero

Get this filed and her served. I had mine wrapped up in 48 hrs. Do it on your terms.


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Just met with the pastor.
> 
> He listened to our current situation and emphatically stressed to end this and move on. Under no circumstances to get back with her. Seems to be a common theme amongst everyone I encounter.
> 
> He repeated that sentement 4 times in the 30 minutes we met.
> 
> Again, this is her pastor who has known her for 25 years.


Did he elaborate on why? I know why, but I am curious as to his reasoning.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Get this filed and her served. I had mine wrapped up in 48 hrs. Do it on your terms.


Just met with the lawyer. We are a go. First step is to reach out and get her to agree to a break down of debt. Once that's done, the divorce gets pushed through. He said it can be done in less than two months. 

I will be sending this breakdown tomorrow.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just met with the pastor.
> 
> He listened to our current situation and emphatically stressed to end this and move on. Under no circumstances to get back with her. Seems to be a common theme amongst everyone I encounter.
> 
> He repeated that sentement 4 times in the 30 minutes we met.
> 
> Again, this is her pastor who has known her for 25 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Did he elaborate on why? I know why, but I am curious as to his reasoning.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

He said she will never find what she's looking for and this cycle will be endless. I did everything possible to make it work, she's just never going to be happy until she faces her own issues. He also said I need to work on my issues prior to being able to move forward in my life.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> To grow Luke.... you have to face Vader. NO way around this.
> 
> If you learn the right path to becoming a Jedi..... fear will be defeated.
> 
> As then.... will Vader. After you face him for the 1st time.... it gets easier and easier.
> 
> Read my two short threads started back in 2012..... I was consumed by fear.
> 
> I faced Vader.... several times. Put it this way.... Vader can walk into my kitchen Sunday while
> 
> I am making homemade chili, spinning music on Utube, watching NFL football and surfing Ebay
> 
> for a few cards I need for a set. Vader walk in.... I don't need a light saber anymore....
> 
> because the fear has gone.
> 
> It is perfectly okay to grieve a loss.... like the W you thought she was. I did my 4th love....
> 
> but this is temporary. Fear.... can last a lifetime.
> 
> Your largest opponent is not Matchbox... but your own fears.


Can you link these chuck?


----------



## Mr The Other

unbe said:


> Can you link these chuck?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/64013-crossroads-sink-swim.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/61735-normal-fell-way.html


----------



## unbe

Update:

Yesterday was a turning point for me...woke up today feeling powerful and strong. Starting to question to myself why am I worried about meeting someone else, why do I even need someone else right now? I don't need a women to make myself a man!

Also, was thinking of a apology that I may or may mot express to matchbox in the future. For the time being I will post it here...Im sure many more will come.

Dear Matchbox,

Looking back now I realize what a POS I was to not involve myself more in the home and decisions regarding the house. It was incredibly selfish of me to expect you to completely decorate and accessoRize our home without my input. I apoligze for putting this pressure on you!


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday was a turning point for me...woke up today feeling powerful and strong. Starting to question to myself why am I worried about meeting someone else, why do I even need someone else right now? I don't need a women to make myself a man!
> 
> 
> 
> Also, was thinking of a apology that I may or may mot express to matchbox in the future. For the time being I will post it here...Im sure many more will come.
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Matchbox,
> 
> 
> 
> Looking back now I realize what a POS I was to not involve myself more in the home and decisions regarding the house. It was incredibly selfish of me to expect you to completely decorate and accessoRize our home without my input. I apoligze for putting this pressure on you!



Yeah, just keep these on TAM for now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

If I had my way.... my place would have white walls and black n gold logos everywhere.


----------



## farsidejunky

Chuck71 said:


> If I had my way.... my place would have white walls and black n gold logos everywhere.


Nobody is perfect...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Yesterday was a turning point for me...woke up today feeling powerful and strong. Starting to question to myself why am I worried about meeting someone else, why do I even need someone else right now? I don't need a women to make myself a man!
> 
> Also, was thinking of a apology that I may or may mot express to matchbox in the future. For the time being I will post it here...Im sure many more will come.
> 
> Dear Matchbox,
> 
> Looking back now I realize what a POS I was to not involve myself more in the home and decisions regarding the house. It was incredibly selfish of me to expect you to completely decorate and accessoRize our home without my input. I apoligze for putting this pressure on you!


I agree that you need to keep them here and not give them to her. But really? That is just how egregious your infractions were in this marriage? SMH...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Curious..... did she ever ask you to help her grade papers or help her with lesson plans?


----------



## Ceegee

farsidejunky said:


> I agree that you need to keep them here and not give them to her. But really? That is just how egregious your infractions were in this marriage? SMH...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


He'll get there...when he does he'll realize these types of things have absolutely nothing to do with it.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> I agree that you need to keep them here and not give them to her. But really? That is just how egregious your infractions were in this marriage? SMH...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Lol yea I know.

Honestly I thought by saying "whatever you like" was being helpful..I can see how that may not have been the case.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Curious..... did she ever ask you to help her grade papers or help her with lesson plans?


No, that never happened.


----------



## unbe

I dnot know if I will ever share the apologie(s) with her. I just felt when I woke up I had to get it off my chest in some form


----------



## Chuck71

Vent here...... NC matchbox

XW would want my feedback on home décor .... yeah 

I asked her what set was the better buy (baseball cards)

XW didn't ask for feedback on décor as much


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> I dnot know if I will ever share the apologie(s) with her. I just felt when I woke up I had to get it off my chest in some form



How has she accepted apologies in the past?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cbnero

I apologized to my ex for everything under the sun and then some when I was in the betrayed fog and being blamedshifted. She immediately took that and said "yes, i agree, everything is your fault." So then all focus was on my faults entirely and I was beat down into the lowest mental state of my life. 

So my advice - keep the apologies to yourself. There is no common ground with crazy.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> How has she accepted apologies in the past?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She said thank you...

Looking back, I don't think she ever apologized for anything...ever


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> She said thank you...
> 
> Looking back, I don't think she ever apologized for anything...ever


Let me ask.... even if you knew 100% you were right and she was wrong....

you ended up being the one apologizing.... right?


Ahhhh... a ReGroup thread flashback LOL


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Let me ask.... even if you knew 100% you were right and she was wrong....
> 
> you ended up being the one apologizing.... right?
> 
> 
> Ahhhh... a ReGroup thread flashback LOL


Yes, for the sake of putting it to bed and moving on I would accept the responsility of the argument.


----------



## Chuck71

Damn I wish Conrad was here.... hims gotta way with words.

Little Unbe was doing that, scared Unbe was

New Unbe should never do that.

Have you ever held her 100% accountable for her mishaps? When?

You were "all in" all the time trying.... she was only when she vagina bombed you, to get you back.

When you respect yourself, others will too


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Damn I wish Conrad was here.... hims gotta way with words.
> 
> Little Unbe was doing that, scared Unbe was
> 
> New Unbe should never do that.
> 
> Have you ever held her 100% accountable for her mishaps? When?
> 
> You were "all in" all the time trying.... she was only when she vagina bombed you, to get you back.
> 
> When you respect yourself, others will too


I never did. I was always in fix it mode. Her parents never did either. She has known no other life other than mess something up and have someone else fix it


----------



## Chuck71

Seems a bit one-sided to me. Sounds like she is an entitled princess.

There are too many single women out there who would gladly give 100% of their 50% to make it work.

Think Matchbox ever could? She's never had to

Drop the Mr. Fixer gene. Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy?

Hold on to your N.U.T.S? Married Man Sex Life? Awareness?

You have not investigated to see if there is a POSOM..... do you not give a damn or scared to find out?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Seems a bit one-sided to me. Sounds like she is an entitled princess.
> 
> There are too many single women out there who would gladly give 100% of their 50% to make it work.
> 
> Think Matchbox ever could? She's never had to
> 
> Drop the Mr. Fixer gene. Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy?
> 
> Hold on to your N.U.T.S? Married Man Sex Life? Awareness?
> 
> You have not investigated to see if there is a POSOM..... do you not give a damn or scared to find out?


she is and always will be a princess in her eyes and her mother never gave her a reason to think otherwise. 

I have read all of these books, in the process of re reading cdnm. 

I haven't investagated posom, I know there was one last time. I'm fairly certain there is this time. Honestly, it doesn't matter anymore. 

The pastor put it over the edge for me. If God is telling me to move on, I better start listening.


----------



## Chuck71

Give your pastor a high-5 for me.

Ain't gonna lie, it will be a rough road..... you could see the pain in my earlier posts....

Compare that to my Crossroad Complete post in Feb '13.... and my LaD threads.

There is a life out there...... and it's calling your name

Have you filed yet?


----------



## cbnero

Unbe my ex was the same re: her accountability. I ended up taking her to mediation late last fall for not paying any of the kids health ins, doing any of their homework, etc... all factual, none of it opinion. The mediator put her dead in the cross hairs and she had no wiggle room.

And instead of being accountable, she exploded. I am talking about a 5+ minute long rage and curse filled screaming at me in the top of her lungs explosion. The mediator suggested she get personal therpay. I just sat there calmly and let her yell. 

Point is, trying to paint someone like that into a corner will result in an attack on you. Suddenly I'm abusive for holding her accountable to raising her children. Poor her.

F that. You don't need to hold Matchbox accountable. She isn't your problem to fix.

Keep moving forward. Pedal to the metal. Screw her.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Give your pastor a high-5 for me.
> 
> Ain't gonna lie, it will be a rough road..... you could see the pain in my earlier posts....
> 
> Compare that to my Crossroad Complete post in Feb '13.... and my LaD threads.
> 
> There is a life out there...... and it's calling your name
> 
> Have you filed yet?


Met with the lawyer yesterday, all is in motion. 

I think the pain won't be as bad because I was still bruised from before.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Unbe my ex was the same re: her accountability. I ended up taking her to mediation late last fall for not paying any of the kids health ins, doing any of their homework, etc... all factual, none of it opinion. The mediator put her dead in the cross hairs and she had no wiggle room.
> 
> And instead of being accountable, she exploded. I am talking about a 5+ minute long rage and curse filled screaming at me in the top of her lungs explosion. The mediator suggested she get personal therpay. I just sat there calmly and let her yell.
> 
> Point is, trying to paint someone like that into a corner will result in an attack on you. Suddenly I'm abusive for holding her accountable to raising her children. Poor her.
> 
> F that. You don't need to hold Matchbox accountable. She isn't your problem to fix.
> 
> Keep moving forward. Pedal to the metal. Screw her.


It's time to take back my GD LIFE!!!!


----------



## Ceegee

cbnero said:


> Unbe my ex was the same re: her accountability. I ended up taking her to mediation late last fall for not paying any of the kids health ins, doing any of their homework, etc... all factual, none of it opinion. The mediator put her dead in the cross hairs and she had no wiggle room.
> 
> And instead of being accountable, she exploded. I am talking about a 5+ minute long rage and curse filled screaming at me in the top of her lungs explosion. The mediator suggested she get personal therpay. I just sat there calmly and let her yell.
> 
> Point is, trying to paint someone like that into a corner will result in an attack on you. Suddenly I'm abusive for holding her accountable to raising her children. Poor her.
> 
> F that. You don't need to hold Matchbox accountable. She isn't your problem to fix.
> 
> Keep moving forward. Pedal to the metal. Screw her.



I liked because I know this. 

Chuck will attest. 

It's hell going through this with a PD. When you fully realize what they are you laugh about it but when kids are involved it's a bag full of mixed emotions. 

I don't want any man to go through this sh1t alone. It can be very frustrating when you don't realize what these women are. These threads are the only reason I come back to TAM. 

Umbe, I'm glad you are now feeling a little better about where you're headed but understand that this is a fleeting feeling. You may feel bad again tomorrow or the next day. It's a roller coaster. And the fortunate thing is that with a PD the craziness may last forever. You need to find ways to cope - learn how to let it roll off of you and don't engage the drama. 

Keep your goals in sight and don't let up. It's all business now. Don't give on anything unless it's strategically advantageous for you. 

Keep posting everything. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cbnero

Just need unbe to realize - it's not your fault. I'm sure there are plenty of things that are. Same as the rest of us. 

But this mentality of hers? Not your fault. Her choices are hers. 

At the point where most people would apologize and express remorse, she wont. Likely not ever. 

I will never trust my ex again with anything. Neither should you. You don't owe her anything more at this point.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> cbnero said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unbe my ex was the same re: her accountability. I ended up taking her to mediation late last fall for not paying any of the kids health ins, doing any of their homework, etc... all factual, none of it opinion. The mediator put her dead in the cross hairs and she had no wiggle room.
> 
> And instead of being accountable, she exploded. I am talking about a 5+ minute long rage and curse filled screaming at me in the top of her lungs explosion. The mediator suggested she get personal therpay. I just sat there calmly and let her yell.
> 
> Point is, trying to paint someone like that into a corner will result in an attack on you. Suddenly I'm abusive for holding her accountable to raising her children. Poor her.
> 
> F that. You don't need to hold Matchbox accountable. She isn't your problem to fix.
> 
> Keep moving forward. Pedal to the metal. Screw her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I liked because I know this.
> 
> Chuck will attest.
> 
> It's hell going through this with a PD. When you fully realize what they are you laugh about it but when kids are involved it's a bag full of mixed emotions.
> 
> I don't want any man to go through this sh1t alone. It can be very frustrating when you don't realize what these women are. These threads are the only reason I come back to TAM.
> 
> Umbe, I'm glad you are now feeling a little better about where you're headed but understand that this is a fleeting feeling. You may feel bad again tomorrow or the next day. It's a roller coaster. And the fortunate thing is that with a PD the craziness may last forever. You need to find ways to cope - learn how to let it roll off of you and don't engage the drama.
> 
> Keep your goals in sight and don't let up. It's all business now. Don't give on anything unless it's strategically advantageous for you.
> 
> Keep posting everything.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using
> Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What's PD?

Also you couldn't be more correct. Last hour I have been down in the dumps. Going to be a bumpy ride


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Just need unbe to realize - it's not your fault. I'm sure there are plenty of things that are. Same as the rest of us.
> 
> But this mentality of hers? Not your fault. Her choices are hers.
> 
> At the point where most people would apologize and express remorse, she wont. Likely not ever.
> 
> I will never trust my ex again with anything. Neither should you. You don't owe her anything more at this point.


How can you trust someone who repeatedly hurts you and shows no regard for the human race.


----------



## Ceegee

PD = Personality Disorder. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Update:

Got my friend coming over to help me redecorate the house. There is still a lot out that reminds me of our old life, I need to get it out of here.

Start IC tomorrow, can't wait! It really helped last time and I am hoping this therapist is a bit more pushy and challenges me harder.


----------



## cbnero

Nice, congrats. Keep working on yourself and you'll figure out the rest. I'm heading off TAM for a while/long time. There were a few people here like yourself I had interest in seeing through. You will be fine. Otherwise I need to move on and get away from the triggers myself, and part of that is getting off TAM. Out of sight, out of mind!
All the best to you unbe


----------



## Chuck71

cbnero said:


> Nice, congrats. Keep working on yourself and you'll figure out the rest. I'm heading off TAM for a while/long time. There were a few people here like yourself I had interest in seeing through. You will be fine. Otherwise I need to move on and get away from the triggers myself, and part of that is getting off TAM. Out of sight, out of mind!
> All the best to you unbe


Don't be a stranger........ thanks for your insight on Gridcom's thread.


----------



## Chuck71

I don't recall much about CGs thread but I learned the focal point of it

on ReGroup's. Group was the main emphasis but Conrad and Mavish

also interacted with my posts from my situation, CGs, Zs, GPs, etc.

The thread is inactive but is a blueprint to follow. I re-read it this summer,

wanting to refresh my memory as I took a few guys under my wing. I was

having a problem interacting with my mom and Mavish really touched on

boundaries with your parents. About the time I completed the thread.... mom

got very ill and threw anger dumps galore. 

CG can attest.... he tried everything in trying to save his M (he has three kids)

but she was PD.... to the fifth degree. FF few years... he has a great g/f, kids

adapted well.

Unbe... you and me get off light, no kids. But I will add..... pain is pain. It has

no prejudice.

The evening before my D was to be final.... I walked through the duplex we were M

in. Room where we said I do, marital bedroom. I knew it was over, I had accepted it.

But it hurt like he!!. I left, took UG out to eat. Hurting is normal.... how you address

it is key.


----------



## Mr The Other

Sounds very familiar. 
I read an article about an alcoholic. Once he was over alcoholism, his life was still a mess. He had ruined many things and was emotionally in pieces. But things improved slowly. When I split up, I told myself it would take until mid 2016 to be over it completely. I am on course, but that is a great deal of suffering in the meantime.


----------



## unbe

cbnero said:


> Nice, congrats. Keep working on yourself and you'll figure out the rest. I'm heading off TAM for a while/long time. There were a few people here like yourself I had interest in seeing through. You will be fine. Otherwise I need to move on and get away from the triggers myself, and part of that is getting off TAM. Out of sight, out of mind!
> All the best to you unbe


Nero take care of yourself. Pm me your cell, I many need some lumber in an emergency situation


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> I don't recall much about CGs thread but I learned the focal point of it
> 
> on ReGroup's. Group was the main emphasis but Conrad and Mavish
> 
> also interacted with my posts from my situation, CGs, Zs, GPs, etc.
> 
> The thread is inactive but is a blueprint to follow. I re-read it this summer,
> 
> wanting to refresh my memory as I took a few guys under my wing. I was
> 
> having a problem interacting with my mom and Mavish really touched on
> 
> boundaries with your parents. About the time I completed the thread.... mom
> 
> got very ill and threw anger dumps galore.
> 
> CG can attest.... he tried everything in trying to save his M (he has three kids)
> 
> but she was PD.... to the fifth degree. FF few years... he has a great g/f, kids
> 
> adapted well.
> 
> Unbe... you and me get off light, no kids. But I will add..... pain is pain. It has
> 
> no prejudice.
> 
> The evening before my D was to be final.... I walked through the duplex we were M
> 
> in. Room where we said I do, marital bedroom. I knew it was over, I had accepted it.
> 
> But it hurt like he!!. I left, took UG out to eat. Hurting is normal.... how you address
> 
> it is key.


 I feel people address these situations so uniquely it's difficult to follow a map. I feel talking about it all the time helps get past it, the silence is what makes me go nuts


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> I feel people address these situations so uniquely it's difficult to follow a map. I feel talking about it all the time helps get past it, the silence is what makes me go nuts



Talking about it all the time isn't getting past it though is it?

It's fine for now - healthy to talk it out. But eventually you will get past it. 

You'll get to a state of awareness - a constant 50k feet - and things will just make sense. 

It may seem random and unique but there really is a pattern to this looking inward instead of at other people. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> unbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel people address these situations so uniquely it's difficult to follow a map. I feel talking about it all the time helps get past it, the silence is what makes me go nuts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about it all the time isn't getting past it though is it?
> 
> It's fine for now - healthy to talk it out. But eventually you will get past it.
> 
> You'll get to a state of awareness - a constant 50k feet - and things will just make sense.
> 
> It may seem random and unique but there really is a pattern to this looking inward instead of at other people.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This can't come fast enough. I do realize however it takes time and one must follow the process to get there, no short cuts. 

Had IC today, she specializes in co dependency so I'm excited to work with her. First session went ok though. 

Anyway, woke up today and felt a little better than yesterday. Sloooowlly starting to detach


----------



## unbe

Update:

Feelings and emotions are roller coastering all over the place. I need to get to 50k feet but I'm having trouble getting off the ground. I feel like I'm out of gas....

Keep wondering what's wrong with me? Why wasnt I enough? Pathetic tbh


----------



## Chuck71

Her actions say a lot about her

and NOTHING about you


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Her actions say a lot about her
> 
> and NOTHING about you


Chuck I hear what your saying, just need to believe what your saying.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Feelings and emotions are roller coastering all over the place. I need to get to 50k feet but I'm having trouble getting off the ground. I feel like I'm out of gas....
> 
> Keep wondering what's wrong with me? Why wasnt I enough? Pathetic tbh


You need a safe man.

Do you understand what that means?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I feel people address these situations so uniquely it's difficult to follow a map. I feel talking about it all the time helps get past it, the silence is what makes me go nuts


I cannot tell you how wrong this is. It's impossible. It may seem counterintuitive, but there is nothing unique about your situation.


----------



## Chuck71

I so recall thinking my situation was the MOST unique TAM had ever seen..... LOL 

schit.... took about 30 minutes to read a mirror image of my situation and 5 minutes to find a guy 

a helluva lot worse off than me. 12-11-12 was my bottom.

I dropped in the rabbit hole with tears in my eyes, a broken heart, and a Chicago CD.

I came out fixated on boundaries, a game plan, and a Rocky IV CD.

One month later.... I was already immersed in the light. I didn't see it as quick but others did.... I was in control

of my destiny. Two months later.... I didn't look at my then XW, I looked through her. All she had was

bumps around her mouth and face.... her Dr said it was nerves..... 

Two months....... Motley Crue had parties that lasted longer....


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> You need a safe man.
> 
> Do you understand what that means?


h

Someone I can talk too when I'm feeling down?


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> h
> 
> 
> 
> Someone I can talk too when I'm feeling down?



You're always down. 

It's more than that. 

Conrad was mine for a while. Chuck was there too. 

We're a fraternity bro. 

It's time to see the world in a different light. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

I'd love as much help as I can get. If anyone is willing please pm me


----------



## mineforever

Unbe it is a long journey you have ahead of you but keep your eyes faced forward and don't keep looking behind you. What's in the past, is in the past, you can't change it, it's over and done with. What's ahead of you holds hope, possibilities and your future...don't spend to much time grieving what you lost, you have a new future to start planning.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe..... there are a handful of guys I met here who have been there

when I needed someone. I've been there for some when they needed

someone. No scorecards..... not in a brotherhood. Conrad and I would

chat about sports mostly..... but when I needed to talk.... he was there.

When mom was about to have triple by-pass... CeeGee was there. 

Joe Montana was once asked if he remembers his four Super Bowl wins

often. He said no.... he remembers the playoff games he lost much more.

If you asked me how I helped CeeGee.... I can't recall.... have to ask him.

But if you asked me how he helped me right before my mother went under the knife,

I can almost recite it. That's what it's about.

I'm guessing you lost a lot of male friends after you were M. We all do. I hung out

with a wild bunch after college. Drag racing, chasing women, closing bars at 3AM.....

FF from 1997 to 2012..... I'm an author, working on PhD, LOVE reading.

I'm not the same person anymore.... neither are you. Out of the -dirty dozen- I 

partied with back in the 90s..... I'm close with one, semi-close with another.

The rest.... have no clue where they are or they are still stuck at age 25 and nearing 45.

Most guys have 500 acquaintances.... but only a handful of "close friends"

You have to change your outlook.... mindset.... what is not helping you any more,

dismiss. Embrace change.... trust me... I hated change. 

I would almost cry a river when I had to write research papers at age 25.

Nine years later.... I could crank them out nightly.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Unbe,

A "safe man" is someone on the periphery of your life. You can tell that person anything and they give you back the truth. They've often been through therapy and they're just paying forward what they've learned. We all develop some seriously screwed up habits as we mature into adulthood. Often, these are ways our emotions control out behavior when we aren't even aware of it.

It's not just a voice when you're lonely. It's someone who's willing to give it to you straight. They tell you what they see as the truth - and often challenge you when you chicken out. The phrase "Dutch Uncle" comes to mind. I realized I had my safe man when a friend listened to my pathetic attempts at reconciliation and said the following, "You just got played".

I will tell you I did not want to believe that. Of course, it was true.

Re-wiring your own head takes some work and you're the only one that can do it. A good therapist really helps give you those "aha" moments of insight into yourself. However, when you start making personal changes, being able to run things past someone who has been there speeds up the clock of progress.

It can be email. It can be phone. It can be pm. It's about support - and I mean "real" support, not the garden variety sympathy so often expressed when "things go wrong". A good safe man listens to you and challenges you, coaches you, and helps you cut through your crap to the heart of the matter.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> You're always down.
> 
> It's more than that.
> 
> Conrad was mine for a while. Chuck was there too.
> 
> We're a fraternity bro.
> 
> It's time to see the world in a different light.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The funny thing is, even when you haven't talked to that person for a year or more - they're right there, and you can feel it. You can hear their voice when you are tempted to get flaky or lapse back to the old ways.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe,
> 
> A "safe man" is someone on the periphery of your life. You can tell that person anything and they give you back the truth. They've often been through therapy and they're just paying forward what they've learned. We all develop some seriously screwed up habits as we mature into adulthood. Often, these are ways our emotions control out behavior when we aren't even aware of it.
> 
> It's not just a voice when you're lonely. It's someone who's willing to give it to you straight. They tell you what they see as the truth - and often challenge you when you chicken out. The phrase "Dutch Uncle" comes to mind. I realized I had my safe man when a friend listened to my pathetic attempts at reconciliation and said the following, "You just got played".
> 
> I will tell you I did not want to believe that. Of course, it was true.
> 
> Re-wiring your own head takes some work and you're the only one that can do it. A good therapist really helps give you those "aha" moments of insight into yourself. However, when you start making personal changes, being able to run things past someone who has been there speeds up the clock of progress.
> 
> It can be email. It can be phone. It can be pm. It's about support - and I mean "real" support, not the garden variety sympathy so often expressed when "things go wrong". A good safe man listens to you and challenges you, coaches you, and helps you cut through your crap to the heart of the matter.


Yea I don't have anyone like this in my life. All my friends just tell me what I want to hear...that's not helpful at all.

Consuling will be helpful for sure. I do need to find this person however.

Today's update:

It's really annoying that I'm living in the house and all her sht is still there. I haven't heard anything and it just remains there. I'm giving it to the weekend, then packing it up and shipping it out. 

I have been contemplating moving out of NY and taking a year off. I was thinking this prior to all of this going down and now that I'm a free man I see no reason why I shouldn't do this. I don't want to make a decision until my head i straight however.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Yea I don't have anyone like this in my life. All my friends just tell me what I want to hear...that's not helpful at all.
> 
> Consuling will be helpful for sure. I do need to find this person however.
> 
> Today's update:
> 
> It's really annoying that I'm living in the house and all her sht is still there. I haven't heard anything and it just remains there. I'm giving it to the weekend, then packing it up and shipping it out.
> 
> I have been contemplating moving out of NY and taking a year off. I was thinking this prior to all of this going down and now that I'm a free man I see no reason why I shouldn't do this. I don't want to make a decision until my head i straight however.


Friends mean well but often lack either the awareness or conviction to hold you accountable.

Hefty makes bags perfect for packing unwanted sh!t from former roommates. Load it up and put it all in the garage. Send a note that says she has until a certain date to pick it up. After that it will be in a storage unit under her name.

A move like you're contemplating is a big decision to make but just to make a decision like that can be liberating. I'd say go for it. Nothing to lose.


----------



## Chuck71

If the house is in her name only..... be sure what you are considering is beneficial for you.

Since she left in December.... are you paying all the bills?

If you move out..... do you have any obligation for any of the HH bills?

Remaining at her home after you file D papers..... may hinder your progress... only you can answer that.

Keep in mind... when you do file papers.... her first reaction will be for you to GTFO of the house....


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> If the house is in her name only..... be sure what you are considering is beneficial for you.
> 
> Since she left in December.... are you paying all the bills?
> 
> If you move out..... do you have any obligation for any of the HH bills?
> 
> Remaining at her home after you file D papers..... may hinder your progress... only you can answer that.
> 
> Keep in mind... when you do file papers.... her first reaction will be for you to GTFO of the house....


The house is I'm both names, the mortgage is in just her.

I have been paying the bills for the home since I am living there.

I was planning on remaining until it's sold. If I move out, I would pay for half of the expenses in an attempt to keep things civil (this may or may not be a smart move) or rent it out. 

I am giving it to the weekend then packing sht up...

Today's update:

As if this wasn't enough I was told at work that I need to make a role change. Seems like a sign to me that if I am being forced here maybe it's time to make that move to FLA sooner than expected....

Sleepless night last night, but not over matchbox. 

No word from that camp...it only bothers me because I want a finalization on the debts so that I can have my lawyer draw up the papers and we get this over with.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Easy answer.

Keep paying the bills - stop paying the mortgage.


----------



## Chuck71

And if your W feels she is not noticed or acknowledged.... let the mortgage lapse

She will get more calls than a high end call girl in Las Vegas on New Year's Eve


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> And if your W feels she is not noticed or acknowledged.... let the mortgage lapse
> 
> She will get more calls than a high end call girl in Las Vegas on New Year's Eve


Response received. 

She is nit picking about some of the expenses. Also stated she wasn't able to read though the entire email yet so doesn't have an answer yet on all points mainly the sale of the home. 

Mentioned she wants to come to the house to get most of her stuff on Friday. 

Seems like she's stalling for whatever reason. 

I responded stating she can get her things tomorrow but to make sure to take everything. Anything left behind will be tossed. 

Also said that I will not address any changes to my proposal until she answers the entire email and all points on it. 

I can tell you, nothing about hearing from her triggered me whatsoever. The force is starting to guide this young Jedi


----------



## Chuck71

I recall where you live.... don't get snowed in with her.

Make up blizzard sex will set you back


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> I recall where you live.... don't get snowed in with her.
> 
> Make up blizzard sex will set you back


Doubt that will be a problem, she's not living here


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Doubt that will be a problem, she's not living here


You in Rockland County unbe?


----------



## unbe

HTML:







ReturntoZero said:


> You in Rockland County unbe?


Rather not say, Pm me

Update:

Last night was rough, was upset. I'm sure it has to do with some finalization coming through...didn't lose sleep over it though so that's good.

Met with the pastor yesterday, just talking about life. He reiterated no matter what, do not waiver. I will not...but Im sure I will still experience these feelings from time to time.


Anyway....Work is calm for now but the 1st is looming and a change is coming. Hopefully I'll be a be slightly better equipped to handle another change then.

Almost done with CDNM....any other recommendations for me?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> HTML:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather not say, Pm me
> 
> Update:
> 
> Last night was rough, was upset. I'm sure it has to do with some finalization coming through...didn't lose sleep over it though so that's good.
> 
> Met with the pastor yesterday, just talking about life. He reiterated no matter what, do not waiver. I will not...but Im sure I will still experience these feelings from time to time.
> 
> 
> Anyway....Work is calm for now but the 1st is looming and a change is coming. Hopefully I'll be a be slightly better equipped to handle another change then.
> 
> Almost done with CDNM....any other recommendations for me?


Toxic Parents

The Road Less Traveled - by M. Scott Peck

Awareness - Anthonie DeMello


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Toxic Parents
> 
> The Road Less Traveled - by M. Scott Peck
> 
> Awareness - Anthonie DeMello


Read awareness twice. Still hadn't sunk in yet....

Just got home, clothes are gone. Not quite sure how I feel about it yet. 

No contact is in effect and will remain so. 

I'm just do t get how the day before she's at my job chatting it up with my co workers and bringing me a gift to the very next day moving out and cutting off all feelings and contact without anything happening in between.....


----------



## Chuck71

When you're @ 50k feet... it ALL makes sense. Always much harder when you're the one with the emotions

involved. Every guy has been there. 

Awareness is very deep..... it took two reads for me to "understand" my enlightenment book, Abolition of Man.

Remain NC..... continue 180. When these actions of hers take place..... stand ##$%%^ still.

Observe..... why do you think she did these things?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Read awareness twice. Still hadn't sunk in yet....
> 
> Just got home, clothes are gone. Not quite sure how I feel about it yet.
> 
> No contact is in effect and will remain so.
> 
> I'm just do t get how the day before she's at my job chatting it up with my co workers and bringing me a gift to the very next day moving out and cutting off all feelings and contact without anything happening in between.....


Sounds like your focus is on her.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> When you're @ 50k feet... it ALL makes sense. Always much harder when you're the one with the emotions
> 
> involved. Every guy has been there.
> 
> Awareness is very deep..... it took two reads for me to "understand" my enlightenment book, Abolition of Man.
> 
> Remain NC..... continue 180. When these actions of hers take place..... stand ##$%%^ still.
> 
> Observe..... why do you think she did these things?


She obviously feels that she can do or already has done better than me. 

I did everything humanly possible to try and make this work. Everyone I know has told me this and they've also told me that I was miserable while doing it. 

I don't understand why I CANT SEE THAT


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Sounds like your focus is on her.


The focus is on my pain which she is the source of. 

I have a feeling I'm going to get blasted for that comment


----------



## Chaparral

unbe said:


> She obviously feels that she can do or already has done better than me.
> 
> I did everything humanly possible to try and make this work. Everyone I know has told me this and they've also told me that I was miserable while doing it.
> 
> I don't understand why I CANT SEE THAT


Before marriage I got fired from a job that had been misrepresented to me. My girlfriend and friends were so happy. The weight had been applied over time and I didn't even know the toll it had taken. I am so thankful for my one and only firing.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> The focus is on my pain which she is the source of.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling I'm going to get blasted for that comment



Wrong, the focus is on her. 

Not blasting you for it but you need to realize it. 

It's part of the healing. 

If it were just the pain you'd be taking steps to overcome. 

You haven't hit bottom yet. 

I was at bottom when I read Awareness. I understood it the first read. Some yahoo I barely remember recommended it to me. 

It still shapes my thinking. 

What's the status of your social life?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Wrong, the focus is on her.
> 
> Not blasting you for it but you need to realize it.
> 
> It's part of the healing.
> 
> If it were just the pain you'd be taking steps to overcome.
> 
> You haven't hit bottom yet.
> 
> I was at bottom when I read Awareness. I understood it the first read. Some yahoo I barely remember recommended it to me.
> 
> It still shapes my thinking.
> 
> What's the status of your social life?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Social life is non exsistant... Other than going to my friends homes on the weekends I don't get out much. Is work and come home and go to sleep. My friends are all older and have families with multiple kids.

There are a few guys I can go out with at work but that just has never been my scene.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Social life is non exsistant... Other than going to my friends homes on the weekends I don't get out much. Is work and come home and go to sleep. My friends are all older and have families with multiple kids.
> 
> There are a few guys I can go out with at work but that just has never been my scene.


Do you sing?

What do you like to do?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Do you sing?
> 
> What do you like to do?


I like to watch sports, love horse racing, play softball/basketball. I like going out to dinner, getting coffee. I'm boring man

Use to like the gym, I'm joining today.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I like to watch sports, love horse racing, play softball/basketball. I like going out to dinner, getting coffee. I'm boring man
> 
> Use to like the gym, I'm joining today.


Do you bowl? Get on a team.

You get the idea.

Do what's best for YOU.


----------



## unbe

Today's update:

Was a rough few days, mainly because I'm just sitting a home sulking. I need to get out of the house. 

Thoughts: was thinking about spiriting an fu letter but know I'm not ready to write nor send it yet. 

I miss having someone around, not necessarily her.

A lot of anger thoughts lately, that emotion is starting to outweigh the sadness.

I feel like I won't be able to fully move on until I get out of this house. Florida is looking like a strong possibility come April.


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> She obviously feels that she can do or already has done better than me.
> 
> I did everything humanly possible to try and make this work.


Exactly. YOU did everything. SHE did nothing. You were her doormat and she wiped her feet on you CONTINUOUSLY. 

Women HATE weak men. We despise them. They make us MAD. And many women get so mad that they cheat on weak men. And blame the man.

I read your first page, and then realized that was more than TWO YEARS AGO! :surprise:

What the hell! You were on the verge of divorce and for more than TWO years, you've been going through this? What's wrong with you? Who taught you to be like this?

ETA: You said this TWO years ago:
I haven't offered to solve any problems over the past two weeks and she hadn't asked. 

Yet now you say YOU did everything. Guess that didn't stick?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Today's update:
> 
> Was a rough few days, mainly because I'm just sitting a home sulking. I need to get out of the house.
> 
> Thoughts: was thinking about spiriting an fu letter but know I'm not ready to write nor send it yet.
> 
> I miss having someone around, not necessarily her.
> 
> A lot of anger thoughts lately, that emotion is starting to outweigh the sadness.
> 
> I feel like I won't be able to fully move on until I get out of this house. Florida is looking like a strong possibility come April.


Learn to be ok with you before you consider "having someone around".

Companions are not security blankets.

Be ok with yourself first.

Right now, you're not close.


----------



## Ceegee

turnera said:


> Exactly. YOU did everything. SHE did nothing. You were her doormat and she wiped her feet on you CONTINUOUSLY.
> 
> Women HATE weak men. We despise them. They make us MAD. And many women get so mad that they cheat on weak men. And blame the man.
> 
> I read your first page, and then realized that was more than TWO YEARS AGO! :surprise:
> 
> What the hell! You were on the verge of divorce and for more than TWO years, you've been going through this? What's wrong with you? Who taught you to be like this?
> 
> ETA: You said this TWO years ago:
> I haven't offered to solve any problems over the past two weeks and she hadn't asked.
> 
> Yet now you say YOU did everything. Guess that didn't stick?



Don't let this scare you off unbe.

What are your feelings when you read this?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> Exactly. YOU did everything. SHE did nothing. You were her doormat and she wiped her feet on you CONTINUOUSLY.
> 
> Women HATE weak men. We despise them. They make us MAD. And many women get so mad that they cheat on weak men. And blame the man.
> 
> I read your first page, and then realized that was more than TWO YEARS AGO! :surprise:
> 
> What the hell! You were on the verge of divorce and for more than TWO years, you've been going through this? What's wrong with you? Who taught you to be like this?
> 
> ETA: You said this TWO years ago:
> I haven't offered to solve any problems over the past two weeks and she hadn't asked.
> 
> Yet now you say YOU did everything. Guess that didn't stick?


It stuck for around 6 months the everything feel back to the old ways...I completley feel back into savior mode.

I've been putting up with this since then...


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Don't let this scare you off unbe.
> 
> What are your feelings when you read this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It opens my eyes...

I don't know why I'm like this. I do know that I've always been like this though. I also realize it's time to change!


----------



## unbe

I also get angry reading it knowing that I did everything and she did nothing...ever!

I did look weak, I was weak..still am. 

I need to find my strength and confidence.


----------



## synthetic

Unbe,

I've been through pretty much everything you've been through and worse. The multiple breaks, threats of divorce, changing myself, taking trips, walking on eggshells, getting strong only to get complacent, feeling like a total loser, feeling like a winner only to lose it a few days later...blah, blah, blah.

One day I woke up, drove to the mediator's office and signed the divorce papers WITH her, without making eye-contact with her even once. Craziest and best "on a whim" decision I ever made. I was never going to divorce her. Never.

3 years later, I'm absolutely appalled by my own story. The idiocy, the pussified world-view I once had and the lack of maturity I so proudly didn't mind.

You've probably read my story (it's in the Private Section named "I should just divorce her"). It's pathetic and consumed 12 years of my precious life.

Divorce this woman and never look back. You'll be amazed at how much better and easier life can be when she's no longer your problem. You will grow. And you'll love it.

Don't keep on doing this to yourself. You don't need it. Get the divorce over with.

I would even forgive my share of the home and get out. Your sanity and contentment is really worth more than whatever your financial share of this marriage is.


----------



## Chuck71

Is Florida for the warm weather or to get away from her?

Would you be more head strong about the D if you were there or would you just go through the motions 

and get back in touch with her in a year or two?

When someone has negativity in their life.... what do we (TAM) say? Get rid of it.

If you can not grow and be happy with yourself..... while you are with her..... well you know the answer.

You are not a savior .... no one should be. Take off that GD crown

Conrad told ReGroup this once and ReGroup posted it on my thread in December 2012..... it was my "Neo being 

unplugged moment"

"When you get sick and tired of being...... sick and tired"


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I also get angry reading it knowing that I did everything and she did nothing...ever!
> 
> I did look weak, I was weak..still am.
> 
> I need to find my strength and confidence.


What was your childhood like unbe?


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> I also get angry reading it knowing that I did everything and she did nothing...ever!
> 
> I did look weak, I was weak..still am.
> 
> I need to find my strength and confidence.


Good! That's the point. You SHOULD feel unsettled with me rattling your cage; that's what a healthy man does - get provoked!

Now prove me wrong!

As for confidence, I have three assignments for you, in conjunction with your therapy and your following the NMMNG assignments - you ARE pulling those out to work them, right?

One, pick something/someplace to volunteer at. Start volunteering at least 3 or 4 hours a month, and work your way up to 5 to 10 hours a month. That's a surefire way to improve your confidence. And of course, you're doing something good for somebody, so it's a win-win. 

Two, you need to be exercising. At least every other day. Find SOME way to exercise. It will get you in shape, it will make you toned and good looking, and it will make you feel like you can accomplish something.

Three, find something to MAKE. Learn how to build a coffee table. Plant a garden. Make a kite. I don't care, just MAKE something. It's the third leg in growing self confidence - accomplishments.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Unbe,
> 
> I've been through pretty much everything you've been through and worse. The multiple breaks, threats of divorce, changing myself, taking trips, walking on eggshells, getting strong only to get complacent, feeling like a total loser, feeling like a winner only to lose it a few days later...blah, blah, blah.
> 
> One day I woke up, drove to the mediator's office and signed the divorce papers WITH her, without making eye-contact with her even once. Craziest and best "on a whim" decision I ever made. I was never going to divorce her. Never.
> 
> 3 years later, I'm absolutely appalled by my own story. The idiocy, the pussified world-view I once had and the lack of maturity I so proudly didn't mind.
> 
> You've probably read my story (it's in the Private Section named "I should just divorce her"). It's pathetic and consumed 12 years of my precious life.
> 
> Divorce this woman and never look back. You'll be amazed at how much better and easier life can be when she's no longer your problem. You will grow. And you'll love it.
> 
> Don't keep on doing this to yourself. You don't need it. Get the divorce over with.
> 
> I would even forgive my share of the home and get out. Your sanity and contentment is really worth more than whatever your financial share of this marriage is.


It's good to hear things like this...all of it makes sense. I really don't want to compromise my future by bailing on the house and leaving that money on the table. I don't see any reason to do this other than rushing it along which it may or many not even do. Trust me, I want this over so that I can move on but I also don't want to be stupid about it. It's not a little bit of money we are talking about.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Is Florida for the warm weather or to get away from her?
> 
> Would you be more head strong about the D if you were there or would you just go through the motions
> 
> and get back in touch with her in a year or two?
> 
> When someone has negativity in their life.... what do we (TAM) say? Get rid of it.
> 
> If you can not grow and be happy with yourself..... while you are with her..... well you know the answer.
> 
> You are not a savior .... no one should be. Take off that GD crown
> 
> Conrad told ReGroup this once and ReGroup posted it on my thread in December 2012..... it was my "Neo being
> 
> unplugged moment"
> 
> "When you get sick and tired of being...... sick and tired"


Florida is two fold...start over and get out of this snow nonsense...

Once I move on there is no way I will ever reach out to her again...ever


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> What was your childhood like unbe?


No real resemblence of family. Just now am I starting to develop a relationship with my siblings. Mom and dad where figure heads, not very loving. They are divorced and both remarried. 

I was a bit of a degenerate, would steal a lot, smoke pot. When I turned 18 I stopped all that and became a good boy...


----------



## Tron

unbe said:


> No real resemblence of family. Just now am I starting to develop a relationship with my siblings. Mom and dad where figure heads, not very loving.


In what ways does your STBX resemble your mom or dad?


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> No real resemblence of family. Just now am I starting to develop a relationship with my siblings. Mom and dad where figure heads, not very loving. They are divorced and both remarried.
> 
> I was a bit of a degenerate, would steal a lot, smoke pot. When I turned 18 I stopped all that and became a good boy...


all the more reason you should be in a lot of therapy. Your IC can teach you ways that you would react if you HAD grown up in a normal home. You can also start to get a sense of it by hanging around other couples/families, friends, organizations. But mostly, hopefully, other men. Look for some organizations you can join where you'd be spending a decent amount of time around some older men - fishing groups, bowling, martial arts, barbecuing...

My H volunteers to judge at science fairs, and they are always looking for more volunteers!


----------



## Ceegee

Churches have great support groups for men if you're so inclined. 

As far as IC's go, don't stick with one if it ain't working. Look into LFS therapy. You sound like a great candidate. I can provide a link if you want. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Tron said:


> In what ways does your STBX resemble your mom or dad?


She doesn't really resmemble either at all


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Churches have great support groups for men if you're so inclined.
> 
> As far as IC's go, don't stick with one if it ain't working. Look into LFS therapy. You sound like a great candidate. I can provide a link if you want.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please do...I just started with a new IC. I want to give her a few sessions prior to judging.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Please do...I just started with a new IC. I want to give her a few sessions prior to judging.



http://www.selfleadership.org


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Update:

I'm getting there...starting to push forward. Love the ideas turnera suggested, will start putting them in play.

Joining the gym Thursday.

IC comtinues Thursday as well.

She still hasn't answered the remaining portions of my email suggesting how to split up the debts/assets. It's an obv delay tatic to keep me on the side while she's living it up...f that noise!!!

I have a internal dead line of Friday. I see no reason to let her know about this deadline and I wont. 

If no word, will push the lawyer forward with my suggestions and to have her served. I really wanted to avoid the lawyer interaction and the waste of money but there just doesn't seem to be any other option.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Unbe,
> 
> I've been through pretty much everything you've been through and worse. The multiple breaks, threats of divorce, changing myself, taking trips, walking on eggshells, getting strong only to get complacent, feeling like a total loser, feeling like a winner only to lose it a few days later...blah, blah, blah.
> 
> One day I woke up, drove to the mediator's office and signed the divorce papers WITH her, without making eye-contact with her even once. Craziest and best "on a whim" decision I ever made. I was never going to divorce her. Never.
> 
> 3 years later, I'm absolutely appalled by my own story. The idiocy, the pussified world-view I once had and the lack of maturity I so proudly didn't mind.
> 
> You've probably read my story (it's in the Private Section named "I should just divorce her"). It's pathetic and consumed 12 years of my precious life.
> 
> Divorce this woman and never look back. You'll be amazed at how much better and easier life can be when she's no longer your problem. You will grow. And you'll love it.
> 
> Don't keep on doing this to yourself. You don't need it. Get the divorce over with.
> 
> I would even forgive my share of the home and get out. Your sanity and contentment is really worth more than whatever your financial share of this marriage is.


Can you link your thread?


----------



## synthetic

unbe said:


> Can you link your thread?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/43925-i-should-just-divorce-her.html


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> Center for Self Leadership, IFS Therapy Training (Official Site)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This method of psychoanalysis really works.


----------



## ReturntoZero

synthetic said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/43925-i-should-just-divorce-her.html


I'm still thinking about skiing in the mountains of Iran.


----------



## unbe

Today's update:

I loved her....I really did. I would have continued to live this way for as long as she allowed it. 

At this point, I dont ever see myself going back to that life. I don't want to be unhappy, walk on eggshells and make every decision to make another person happy. Even typing that sounds crazy.

Come to think of it now, I don't know if I loved her or just loved being married. Seems the latter...

Looking back and down on myself I realize what a schmuck I was. Why on earth I allowed myself to live me life like that is beyond me, seems like a different person in my body.

50k is the destination...I just took off and am approaching 10k, there may be some clouds and storms up ahead but I need to keep rising.

I know the way to combat the storms, IC, exercise..... Let's get to it


----------



## unbe

Need some advice...

As per my lawyer I had reached out to try to matchbox and settle the debts and one asset (home). He is looking out for me and trying to keep costs down which I appreciate.

This was two weeks ago.....I sent this breakdown proposal

A week later she responded but only answered about 50% of the email and said she didn't have time to review the rest yet. She suggested some changes but I responded saying I wanted her to answer the entire email prior to me commenting on her suggestions.

This Friday will be two weeks since the original email was sent. She hasn't repsonded since the last communication. 

What should be my next steps here? Should I just push forward with my original thoughts and have her served based on that? Knowing full well this will cause back and forth with lawyers and thousands in legal fees.

Should I send a follow up email and put a deadline on a response?

She has no reason to push this forward and IMO she's prposley delaying to see how things play out with posom in an attempt to keep plan B waiting in the wings.


----------



## turnera

My first thought is to send one more email giving her the deadline and saying that you need it answered by then and if she can't get to it, you'll just have to hand it over to your lawyer at that point. And if you do have to hand it over to the lawyer, to save costs, maybe ask the lawyer to send her one official letter on his letterhead delineating what you need answers to. Many people will respond to such a letter. And then if that doesn't work, go full force with the lawyer.


----------



## happyman64

What you should have done weeks ago if not months ago is file for divorce. 

Your wife is a liar. 
Your wife is a cheater. 
Your wife thinks you are a pushover. 

Serve her. At work. 

Send her a message that after all this time you will no longer be smirked at, laughed at nor taken for a fool. 

Nice guys finish last my friend. Stop being nice. 

Your wife is a selfish cheater. 

Show her some consequences. 

HM


----------



## synthetic

You're penny pinching dude. You're putting a price on your sanity, and that price is apparently only a few thousand dollars?

Get out. 

In a few years, you won't be regretting the extra money you had to spend on this futile marriage, but the extra days you spent trying to avoid the inevitable.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Today's update:
> 
> I loved her....I really did. I would have continued to live this way for as long as she allowed it.
> 
> At this point, I dont ever see myself going back to that life. I don't want to be unhappy, walk on eggshells and make every decision to make another person happy. Even typing that sounds crazy.
> 
> Come to think of it now, I don't know if I loved her or just loved being married. Seems the latter...
> 
> Looking back and down on myself I realize what a schmuck I was. Why on earth I allowed myself to live me life like that is beyond me, seems like a different person in my body.
> 
> 50k is the destination...I just took off and am approaching 10k, there may be some clouds and storms up ahead but I need to keep rising.
> 
> I know the way to combat the storms, IC, exercise..... Let's get to it


Be proactive.

Drive the divorce. Immediately.

That will get her attention.


----------



## unbe

I've decided to take a week off and not think about the divorce. Instead focus on myself and having fun.

Joined the gym today. I plan on going at least 4 times between now and next week.

Had IC today, went very well. Excited to work with her.

Seeing my friends this weekend.

I need to find something to volunteer for. I was going to reach out to my pastor for some thoughts on this


----------



## turnera

Good stuff. I found a place in our city that goes to old houses that are falling in disrepair, where the people are too poor to paint it or fix it up or too old to take care of the lawn, and our group shows up on a Saturday and just takes care of it all in one day.


----------



## unbe

Random thoughts I'd like to get out:

During this marriage I repeatdly did things to make her happy. She always wanted a savior and even expressed this to me early on. 

Moved to home so she can be closer to work....my commute is 3 hours round trip

Renovated the home because she wanted it done even though I didn't feel it was necessary

She constantly complained about her job, I told her to take a year off and get herself centered (I would never do this and disgree with the concept)

She wanted to explore her artistic side, got her singing lessons (she went to one and quit), guitar lessons (bought a guitar, went to one lesson and quit)

These are things that have happened in the past year!!! I'm sure there are many many more instances I don't recall.

All the time all I ever wanted was to feel the love I felt she we first met...never did get that.

Looking down and back I want to kick he a$$ of this poor guy who was just looking for crumbs...no one should ever EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER settle for crumbs.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/43925-i-should-just-divorce-her.html


Brother,

Just finished your thread. I was agonizing along with you during your journey. My first reaction when you met Angel was it was wayyyy to soon and you were moving wayyyy to fast.

With that being said, I'd have done the exact same thing!


----------



## Marc878

The biggest question is are you going to continue????


----------



## synthetic

unbe said:


> Brother,
> 
> Just finished your thread. I was agonizing along with you during your journey. My first reaction when you met Angel was it was wayyyy to soon and you were moving wayyyy to fast.
> 
> With that being said, I'd have done the exact same thing!


Definitely too soon and I paid (am still paying) the price for it. I knew it was too soon and still decided to stick it out. Can't say it was a mistake as it really brought me peace for the most part, but it also limited my options. She's still a source of peace and comfort for me, so I'm still around 

As for your wife's constant switching from one thing to another and expecting your support, I know exactly how that feels. 

She's made you sit out the game of your own life. If she wins, it's her glory (she will never win cuz she doesn't have the persistence and consistence to win). If she loses, it's your fault because you didn't support her enough. It's a lose-lose never-ending situation. All you're doing is spectating a series of events completely irrelevant to your own contentment and desires. It will make you feel like a total victim and resentments will brew up to the point of explosion if you allow this to continue.

Your wife is detaching from you with a single purpose: To find the next moron who will save her from herself. She already consumed all that you had to offer. It's no longer enough and she knows you're slowly waking up to her bullsh1t. She has no choice, but to move on to her next victim.

Sorry man, she wasn't a keeper. Never was, never will be. 

Just try living without her for a year and you'll realize what a huge and positive difference her absence can make in your life. Women like her are a dime a dozen. You can always try 'saving' the next princess if you feel like being an idiot again. You don't even have to walk far to find another one.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Definitely too soon and I paid (am still paying) the price for it. I knew it was too soon and still decided to stick it out. Can't say it was a mistake as it really brought me peace for the most part, but it also limited my options. She's still a source of peace and comfort for me, so I'm still around
> 
> As for your wife's constant switching from one thing to another and expecting your support, I know exactly how that feels.
> 
> She's made you sit out the game of your own life. If she wins, it's her glory (she will never win cuz she doesn't have the persistence and consistence to win). If she loses, it's your fault because you didn't support her enough. It's a lose-lose never-ending situation. All you're doing is spectating a series of events completely irrelevant to your own contentment and desires. It will make you feel like a total victim and resentments will brew up to the point of explosion if you allow this to continue.
> 
> Your wife is detaching from you with a single purpose: To find the next moron who will save her from herself. She already consumed all that you had to offer. It's no longer enough and she knows you're slowly waking up to her bullsh1t. She has no choice, but to move on to her next victim.
> 
> Sorry man, she wasn't a keeper. Never was, never will be.
> 
> Just try living without her for a year and you'll realize what a huge and positive difference her absence can make in your life. Women like her are a dime a dozen. You can always try 'saving' the next princess if you feel like being an idiot again. You don't even have to walk far to find another one.


You hit the nail my friend. I was up for a good part of the night thinking about this and wavering back and forth which im sure is a normal part of this process. I do get small urges to contact but nothing crazy and no I won't do it...mainly because I'm trying to protect myself from further anguish.

Looking forward to the weekend. Next week my world flips again as they are changing my role at work. At least it will be a distraction to this mess I call my personal life....


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> You hit the nail my friend. I was up for a good part of the night thinking about this and wavering back and forth which im sure is a normal part of this process. I do get small urges to contact but nothing crazy and no I won't do it...mainly because I'm trying to protect myself from further anguish.
> 
> Looking forward to the weekend. Next week my world flips again as they are changing my role at work. At least it will be a distraction to this mess I call my personal life....


Yes, and Brother Synthetic was warned it was too soon.

He's a headstrong type.

Working on oneself isn't pleasant. Many people try to skip it - or shortcircuit that part of recovery.

Every single one pays the price for it.


----------



## ReturntoZero

synthetic said:


> Just try living without her for a year and you'll realize what a huge and positive difference her absence can make in your life. Women like her are a dime a dozen. You can always try 'saving' the next princess if you feel like being an idiot again. You don't even have to walk far to find another one.


In fact, if you refuse to work on yourself, they are the ONLY kind you will attract.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Heard from matchbox. 4:30 am response.

Unsure how to respond, initial reaction is to go blast off but that may not be the best. 

Going to post all correspondsce, let's hear some feedback


----------



## unbe

Initial email sent 1/15- as per laywyer



I have outlined a plan below.. If you agree I will have a lawyer draw up an agreement. 

Bills: Outlined in the spreadsheet attached are our expenses. Please review and advise if there needs to be some revisions. Being that I made some payments already for Jan we should implement these changes as of 1/15. The payments made have been highlighted. (Split up bills based on who's name they were under, worked out to be 60/40 in her favor)

Some points I'd like to make in addition to the spreadsheet:

House: In regards to the house, I will live here and pay the expenses associated with it for the time being. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to make a move at this time. Whoever is living here should pay the expenses. The long term plan here would be to sell the house and if you agree I will have Paula put it up immediately. If there is something out of the normal expenses that happens to the house (ie boiler breaks, roof needs repairing...) I will pay for this upfront however I would expect to be reimbursed once we sell the house. We will split the net proceeds from the house once its sold evenly. 
If at any point I leave and you decided to move in you would assume the expenses.
If neither of us are living here we would split them. 
If we rent the house, hopefully we can get enough to cover anything. If not we split the difference. 
Again, this is only until the house is sold. In regards to the contents of the home we can discuss once it's sold. Anything you wanna take before then we can discuss on a case by case basis. If you need to store stuff here in the mean time we can keep it in the spare bedroom. 

Dog: He will stay under my care. I will continue to pay for the dog including the vet expenses, dog insurance and dog walking. Once we sell the house, I will pay off the dog loan from the net proceeds of the sale. Until then I will continue to make the payments.

Taxes: We should file as joint this year. If we don't we are going to owe a lot of money. We can just send everything to Joe and he will take care of it for us. Let me know your thoughts on this. 

We can state that there was a break down in our marriage 6 months ago and file straight away instead of having to being legally separated for a year, then having to file after that. 

If we can communicate to each other in a civil manner we can keep lawyers from going back and forth and it costing both of us money we don't have. I can have a lawyer draw up a dissolution of assets and file everything for a minimal expense. We can just split the cost of this.I will provide you with receipts for everything.


----------



## unbe

Her response 1/21 also at 4:30 am



I'm fine with you staying in the house, but I want oil switched into your name. I'm closing that account effective 2/1. 

There's a lot of other things outlined in this email that I still need to think over, so I unfortunately don't have an answer for you for many of them yet.

Here are my initial thoughts on the bills:
Much of it looks fine. I will not assume the debt for Xxx or Yyyy, nor will I pay the money for your zzzzz on my Vvvvb account. These debts are in my name, but are not mine. (They are joint debts and IMO she should have to pay them)

I have most of my clothes still at the house and will be coming to get some of them Friday. I would appreciate it if you and the dog were not there. 

Sent from my iPhone


----------



## unbe

My response 1/21


I will be out of the house until 7 as will the dog. Take as much as you can including any keepsakes you wish to hold onto. 

I will comment on the rest of your email once you respond to the outstanding issues in the original email. 


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## unbe

Then finally her response this morning. No response from me yet


I've included my thoughts below. Let me know how you want to proceed. 

Bills: This looks fine, with the exception of the debt for xxxx, Yyyy, and the zzzz debt on my vvvvv account. These debts are in my name, but are not mine. 

House: this is fine, but I want to be involved in decisions for any repairs and Paula needs to keep me informed in all aspect of the sale. I also want confirmation that the mortgage has been paid on time each month, or for you to venmo me the money and I will make the payment (your choice). 

Dog: this one is a sore topic, and I will not agree to anything that is contingent upon "net proceeds of the sale of the house", when we have no idea if we will make any money from the house. If you want the dog and the loan is in my name, you have to pay it off in full. Pay it off when you get your settlement from xxxxx. 

Taxes: I don't intend to file jointly this year. 

I think we should do mediation, or have separate lawyers look over this so it's fair for both parties. And yes, I would prefer to work this out in a civil manner.


----------



## unbe

This is where I'm initially leaning towards:


Bills: these were debts accumulated in the marriage as were credit cards I agreed to pay. I will not contribute to them.

House: I am paying all the bills for the house therefore will be making all the decisions. You can check every month online that the mortgage was paid. Paula will not update you unless its to tell you to come and sign papers or for the closing. If you want input, you can pay for half of everything.

Dog: im ok with this

Taxes: your choice

Once you agree to these, I will send to my lawyer to draw up.


Thoughts???


----------



## Ceegee

Sounds pretty good. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

Don't be stupid.

Have you looked at the outcome of a joint return vs. married?

If it benefits you, have your accountant put it together and reimburse yourself from the expense with the refund.


----------



## synthetic

Your wife is very much like my ex. Detached and surefooted. 

Use this opportunity and get divorced as fast as you can. You won't find her in the same emotional state for much longer. Once she loses that composure (and I promise you she will), you'll be in for hell. I saw my window of opportunity and got out. Yes I lost more than half of my sh1t but it was quick and painless.

You know what's worse than losing half of your sh1t? For your wife to wake up one day and decide that she "misses you". That's when you'll get in trouble if you're not divorced already.


----------



## ReturntoZero

synthetic said:


> Your wife is very much like my ex. Detached and surefooted.
> 
> Use this opportunity and get divorced as fast as you can. You won't find her in the same emotional state for much longer. Once she loses that composure (and I promise you she will), you'll be in for hell. I saw my window of opportunity and got out. Yes I lost more than half of my sh1t but it was quick and painless.
> 
> You know what's worse than losing half of your sh1t? For your wife to wake up one day and decide that she "misses you". That's when you'll get in trouble if you're not divorced already.


By the time she wakes up, he could be skiing with some Persian hotties in the mountains of Iran.


----------



## unbe

Ok guys I was thinking of rolling with this? Is it to harsh, should I just agree to her and move forward to take advantage of the fog? I think I can push a little more. My comments are in quotations.....




"my comments are below...

I want to keep communication down to a minimum with you and get this done as quickly as possible. "



Bills: This looks fine, with the exception of the debt for xxxx, Yyyy, and the zzzz debt on my Vvvvv account. These debts are in my name, but are not mine. 

"I will cover my end of the vvvvvv account and that's it. I also have debts that are not mine but are in my name that we have accumulated through the marriage that I agreed to pay."

House: this is fine, but I want to be involved in decisions for any repairs and Paula needs to keep me informed in all aspect of the sale. I also want confirmation that the mortgage has been paid on time each month, or for you to venmo me the money and I will make the payment (your choice). 

"I will not include you in repair decisions nor will Paula keep you updated. We can set an initial buy price and min acceptable offer price. Other than that you will only be needed to sign paperwork to list the house and then again at the closing. I am paying for all the bills and therefore will be making these decisions and you will just have to trust that I know what im doing. If you want say in it, you can pay for half of everything. Also, you can log in online and see the payments being made. They will be made on or around the 10th of every month."

Dog: this one is a sore topic, and I will not agree to anything that is contingent upon "net proceeds of the sale of the house", when we have no idea if we will make any money from the house. If you want the dog and the loan is in my name, you have to pay it off in full. Pay it off when you get your settlement from military. 

"Fine."

Taxes: I don't intend to file jointly this year. 

"Also fine. However I will be claiming half of the mortgage tax and interest write off."

I think we should do mediation, or have separate lawyers look over this so it's fair for both parties. And yes, I would prefer to work this out in a civil manner. 

"No need for either. Once we agree to something, I can have a lawyer draw it up. You sign, I sign and we can be divorced within 2 months."

"Also, I want to add the following:


As I am paying the entire mortgage any payments that are made from February until the house is sold that are applied to the principle of the mortgage I would expect to get back from the equity of the sale. The website tracks it so its easy to figure out. Of course if you wish to pay for half of everything this wouldn't apply.

Also, I want the wedding and engagement rings back. You can give them to someone and I will meet them"


----------



## synthetic

Don't be that guy.

Wedding and engagement ring? WTF is wrong with you dude? What are you gonna do with them? 

Just list the house, give her her money and let go. 

Don't bring yourself down by nickle and diming over stupid crap like a wedding ring or the principle payment on a few months of mortgage. You will make all that money back in no time.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, gotta say, you're sounding really nit-picking here.


----------



## unbe

Ok so send the email without the last two paragraphs then?

I was going to sell the rings, but if you feel it's too much that's fine. I'm typing from emotion which is why I'm asking for an outside perspective.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Ok so send the email without the last two paragraphs then?
> 
> I was going to sell the rings, but if you feel it's too much that's fine. I'm typing from emotion which is why I'm asking for an outside perspective.


Brother Synthetic is on this. Listen to him.


----------



## unbe

Rtz, I hear you my man.

Synthetic, I need you to quaterback this for me. Can you literally respond to this email and I will copy and paste your response.

Thanks brother.


----------



## Mr The Other

unbe said:


> Rtz, I hear you my man.
> 
> Synthetic, I need you to quaterback this for me. Can you literally respond to this email and I will copy and paste your response.
> 
> Thanks brother.


He can suggest, but you have to own this ****.


----------



## synthetic

unbe said:


> Rtz, I hear you my man.
> 
> Synthetic, I need you to quaterback this for me. Can you literally respond to this email and I will copy and paste your response.
> 
> Thanks brother.


*
Hello dear,

Bills: I will cover my end of the vvvvvv account.

House: 
Send me an initial buy price and min acceptable offer price. Your signature will be required to list the house and then again at closing. You may also log in online and see the payments being made. They will be made on or around the 10th of every month.

Dog: Fine.

Taxes: Also fine. 

If you agree, I can have a lawyer draw it up. Once signed, we will be divorced within 2 months.

Take care*


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> *
> Hello dear,
> 
> Bills: I will cover my end of the vvvvvv account.
> 
> House:
> Send me an initial buy price and min acceptable offer price. Your signature will be required to list the house and then again at closing. You may also log in online and see the payments being made. They will be made on or around the 10th of every month.
> 
> Dog: Fine.
> 
> Taxes: Also fine.
> 
> If you agree, I can have a lawyer draw it up. Once signed, we will be divorced within 2 months.
> 
> Take care*


Thanks man. I appreciate it and looks good. Im ready to own this!!!


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Random thoughts I'd like to get out:
> 
> During this marriage I repeatdly did things to make her happy. She always wanted a savior and even expressed this to me early on.
> 
> Moved to home so she can be closer to work....my commute is 3 hours round trip
> 
> Renovated the home because she wanted it done even though I didn't feel it was necessary
> 
> She constantly complained about her job, I told her to take a year off and get herself centered (I would never do this and disgree with the concept)
> 
> She wanted to explore her artistic side, got her singing lessons (she went to one and quit), guitar lessons (bought a guitar, went to one lesson and quit)
> 
> These are things that have happened in the past year!!! I'm sure there are many many more instances I don't recall.
> 
> All the time all I ever wanted was to feel the love I felt she we first met...never did get that.
> 
> Looking down and back I want to kick he a$$ of this poor guy who was just looking for crumbs...no one should ever EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER settle for crumbs.


She should have known.... no human would ever meet all her wants.

Not needs..... just wants. She is one of a select few I could see driving Jesus to a liquor store.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> She should have known.... no human would ever meet all her wants.y
> 
> Not needs..... just wants. She is one of a select few I could see driving Jesus to a liquor store.


Chuck check your PMs


----------



## ReturntoZero

Brother Synthetic is a great coach.

I've worn myself out attempting to get him to put those things into practice for himself.

Perhaps he and I will be skiing with the Persian hotties in the mountains of Iran one day.


----------



## synthetic

ReturntoZero said:


> Brother Synthetic is a great coach.
> 
> I've worn myself out attempting to get him to put those things into practice for himself.
> 
> Perhaps he and I will be skiing with the Persian hotties in the mountains of Iran one day.


C is right 

I'm the first to admit I'm better at preaching than practicing, but that doesn't make my preaching any less valid >


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Chuck check your PMs


Follow Synthetic


----------



## unbe

Update:

Been keeping busy, starting to wonder why I would ever consider taking her back. I don't see any reason why...

I like the idea that I can make decisions that benefit me and me only and right now that decision is to not be with her.

Kinda weird occurrence the other night....

Friday night I was at a friends, got home around 11. I woke up Saturday and went to my car only to find a leather jacket hanging from my side view mirror. It was a women's jacket and it could have been matchboxs, I honestly don't know. Any way, I checked the pockets there was nothing in it. So I threw it out in my trash can outside.

Came home last night, the garbage can was open and the jacket was gone. WTF??? Lol


----------



## farsidejunky

Creepy...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## synthetic

That's strange and funny  

Some WTF moments are inevitable as both you and your wife become paranoid and do things you normally wouldn't. Don't worry about it. It's normal.

I just want you to know that you don't need to worry much about what happens in the future and how you will feel about this whole thing.

Once you get divorced, after a few months (or maybe a year), your anger will drastically subside and you no longer feel like a total victim. You will still feel a bit victimized, but that's mostly because of the amount of time you decided to spend with her, not because of what she has done. You will feel like you have wasted time. And that is true to some extent. We all want our lives to be consistently full of joy and good days with very happy endings. That's just not realistic though. 

Both you and your wife have been presented with a decent opportunity to learn about your inner selves and how life works. What you do with that opportunity will determine how your future pans out.

I personally learned a few key things:

- While getting angry is normal and okay, it's not attractive to lose your sh1t. Swearing, yelling, banging doors or walking like a maniac is simply useless even if it is retaliation in kind. It only makes you remorseful about a situation that you probably had nothing to be sorry about in the first place.

- Badmouthing your spouse (or ex spouse) in front of others is a very idiotic thing. My ex did this a lot and ended up looking like an idiot. I did it to a few people and ended up looking like a moron too.

- It's okay to love someone and not want to tolerate their sh1t. It's called self-preservation and survival. If you two are making each other miserable, it's okay to lovingly detach and separate. It doesn't make you bad people.

- Friends, family, ex-boyfriends/girlfriends, co-workers, neighbors and even children should all be excluded from the core of the relationship. Their presence and involvement should be kept to an absolute minimum. The moment either party starts confiding in a 3rd party, the relationship is doomed. No turning back.

- The woman in a relationship MUST, MUST, MUST be just as or more affectionate than the man. This is absolutely vital. If a man is providing more affection than the woman, the relationship is doomed in the long run. Men are not wired to be the major provider of affection in a relationship.

- If living together, the residence should have an actual "homey" feeling to it for both parties. It must be the most comfortable, peaceful and freedom-carrying place at any given time for both man and woman. If either party feels more satisfied spending time at other places or being with other people instead of being home with their spouse, the relationship is doomed. If you find yourself constantly having friends over or spending time at other people's homes, or coming up with excuses to go for errands, your relationship is lacking.

- A woman making more money than her husband is generally not a good thing for a relationship. It just isn't. Twist is whichever way you want. It's just how it is. Most men don't enjoy earning less than their wives, while most wives are okay with earning less than their man. If you find a woman who earns more than you do, the chances of your relationship surviving in the long run are lower than if that wasn't the case.

- The slightest lie, hiding of the truth or misrepresentation of facts is the end of a relationship. Absolutely no lying should be tolerated. Even trivial things such as "did you change the car oil" should carry full transparency and honesty. If you find your spouse lying about the smallest thing, dump them or get divorced right away. There is no excuse.

- The moment someone packs up and leaves, the relationship is over. Dump or divorce.

- The moment someone says "I love you but ...", the relationship is over. Dump or divorce.

- The moment someone says "I need space" the relationship is over. Dump or divorce.

- The moment someone says "You have to change", the relationship is over. Dump or divorce.



There are a few others, but I gotta get back to work!


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> That's strange and funny
> 
> Some WTF moments are inevitable as both you and your wife become paranoid and do things you normally wouldn't. Don't worry about it. It's normal.
> 
> I just want you to know that you don't need to worry much about what happens in the future and how you will feel about this whole thing.
> 
> Once you get divorced, after a few months (or maybe a year), your anger will drastically subside and you no longer feel like a total victim. You will still feel a bit victimized, but that's mostly because of the amount of time you decided to spend with her, not because of what she has done. You will feel like you have wasted time. And that is true to some extent. We all want our lives to be consistently full of joy and good days with very happy endings. That's just not realistic though.
> 
> Both you and your wife have been presented with a decent opportunity to learn about your inner selves and how life works. What you do with that opportunity will determine how your future pans out.
> 
> I personally learned a few key things:
> 
> - While getting angry is normal and okay, it's not attractive to lose your sh1t. Swearing, yelling, banging doors or walking like a maniac is simply useless even if it is retaliation in kind. It only makes you remorseful about a situation that you probably had nothing to be sorry about in the first place.
> 
> - Badmouthing your spouse (or ex spouse) in front of others is a very idiotic thing. My ex did this a lot and ended up looking like an idiot. I did it to a few people and ended up looking like a moron too.
> 
> - It's okay to love someone and not want to tolerate their sh1t. It's called self-preservation and survival. If you two are making each other miserable, it's okay to lovingly detach and separate. It doesn't make you bad people.
> 
> - Friends, family, ex-boyfriends/girlfriends, co-workers, neighbors and even children should all be excluded from the core of the relationship. Their presence and involvement should be kept to an absolute minimum. The moment either party starts confiding in a 3rd party, the relationship is doomed. No turning back.
> 
> - The woman in a relationship MUST, MUST, MUST be just as or more affectionate than the man. This is absolutely vital. If a man is providing more affection than the woman, the relationship is doomed in the long run. Men are not wired to be the major provider of affection in a relationship.
> 
> - If living together, the residence should have an actual "homey" feeling to it for both parties. It must be the most comfortable, peaceful and freedom-carrying place at any given time for both man and woman. If either party feels more satisfied spending time at other places or being with other people instead of being home with their spouse, the relationship is doomed. If you find yourself constantly having friends over or spending time at other people's homes, or coming up with excuses to go for errands, your relationship is lacking.
> 
> - A woman making more money than her husband is generally not a good thing for a relationship. It just isn't. Twist is whichever way you want. It's just how it is. Most men don't enjoy earning less than their wives, while most wives are okay with earning less than their man. If you find a woman who earns more than you do, the chances of your relationship surviving in the long run are lower than if that wasn't the case.
> 
> - The slightest lie, hiding of the truth or misrepresentation of facts is the end of a relationship. Absolutely no lying should be tolerated. Even trivial things such as "did you change the car oil" should carry full transparency and honesty. If you find your spouse lying about the smallest thing, dump them or get divorced right away. There is no excuse.
> 
> - The moment someone packs up and leaves, the relationship is over. Dump or divorce.
> 
> - The moment someone says "I love you but ...", the relationship is over. Dump or divorce.
> 
> - The moment someone says "I need space" the relationship is over. Dump or divorce.
> 
> - The moment someone says "You have to change", the relationship is over. Dump or divorce.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a few others, but I gotta get back to work!



Wow come great stuff here!! What happens when these moments you listed someone says or does 3 of them lol


----------



## unbe

Update:

The dog is sick.

They switched my role at my job, need to find another one now.

I'm feeling depressed this morning. I miss......someone being in my life

God I sound like such a baby!!!! 

Just not a good last 20 hours


----------



## synthetic

Whatever you do, don't contact her.

Get the dog to a vet.

Did you get laid off? Was there a severance package to keep you afloat for a while?


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Whatever you do, don't contact her.
> 
> Get the dog to a vet.
> 
> Did you get laid off? Was there a severance package to keep you afloat for a while?


There will be no contact. That's not even an option. 

I didn't get laid off but and being forced to take a lower paying position. I am in the process of looking for something else though. Only problem is I don't want to start another job in NY if I'm planning on moving to FLA in the next few months. 

Like I said, just whining and feeling sorry for myself. I'm sure it will pass.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Fired off the email today. Was waiting to speak to therapist prior to sending it.

I feel good about it, ready to own it!

Guys, starting to detach. There are going to be days where I'm sad I'm sure. Not sad about her, but sad about not being able to make this work. 

Today was a good day, gym, therapist, pastor. Starting to get my appetite back...

Role switched at work, not really phased by it. I said my peace, will start the search for a new job. Still working there in the meantime, but I half way out in my mind.

I have turned the page in regards to accepting that this marraige is toxic and poisonous and needs to die NOW!!!

What the future holds, we shall see


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> 
> 
> Fired off the email today. Was waiting to speak to therapist prior to sending it.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel good about it, ready to own it!
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, starting to detach. There are going to be days where I'm sad I'm sure. Not sad about her, but sad about not being able to make this work.
> 
> 
> 
> Today was a good day, gym, therapist, pastor. Starting to get my appetite back...
> 
> 
> 
> Role switched at work, not really phased by it. I said my peace, will start the search for a new job. Still working there in the meantime, but I half way out in my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> I have turned the page in regards to accepting that this marraige is toxic and poisonous and needs to die NOW!!!
> 
> 
> 
> What the future holds, we shall see



Like the positivity. 

Just know that highs are followed by lows. 

Accept them for what they are. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Fired off the email today. Was waiting to speak to therapist prior to sending it.
> 
> I feel good about it, ready to own it!
> 
> Guys, starting to detach. There are going to be days where I'm sad I'm sure. Not sad about her, but sad about not being able to make this work.
> 
> Today was a good day, gym, therapist, pastor. Starting to get my appetite back...
> 
> Role switched at work, not really phased by it. I said my peace, will start the search for a new job. Still working there in the meantime, but I half way out in my mind.
> 
> I have turned the page in regards to accepting that this marraige is toxic and poisonous and needs to die NOW!!!
> 
> What the future holds, we shall see


What's the therapist doing with you. Be specific.

My experience with NY therapy is mixed. Many are copay collectors.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Wow come great stuff here!! What happens when these moments you listed someone says or does 3 of them lol


All 3 were said to me, yet we're still in the game.


----------



## synthetic

Unbe,

Tell us about yourself. Your childhood. Your parents. Are you a "nice guy"? How do you handle your rage? How do you describe your father and the impact he's had on the way you approach the concept of marriage?


----------



## ReturntoZero

synthetic said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Tell us about yourself. Your childhood. Your parents. Are you a "nice guy"? How do you handle your rage? How do you describe your father and the impact he's had on the way you approach the concept of marriage?


Better yet...

Did your father put up with all sorts of crap from your mother?


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Tell us about yourself. Your childhood. Your parents. Are you a "nice guy"? How do you handle your rage? How do you describe your father and the impact he's had on the way you approach the concept of marriage?


Childhood wasn't great. Father was around for discaplin only. He worked nights. Mother wasn't very loving either. They had me when they were very young. 

Family is not very close at all. We have become more so over the years but still not nearly as close as we should be.

I am a nice guy and am working on changing this. I have read NMMNG and am working at this.

Father and mother divorced when I was 18. He cheated on my mother for years, lived in then house for 2 years while they were separated. 

I was a late bloomer, first wife was my first real girlfriend. We were together for 12 years total. Matchbox was directly after, second girl I dated.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Better yet...
> 
> Did your father put up with all sorts of crap from your mother?


They fought constantly. That's all I really remember. I don't remember them being happy


----------



## unbe

Update:

So I fired off them email last night. Received a response almost instantly asking again about the other two bills she wants me to cover. I literally copied and pasted my original response,that was it.

Woke up, to a nice surprise. Matchbox decided to use my checking account to pay her cell phone bill two days ago. Honestly, I think it was a mistake as there are two checking accounts linked and she most likely picked the wrong one. However it still need to be addressed, therefore I sent another email this morning.

Hello Dear,

I'll assume this was an error. Delete my checking account information from your wireless account immediately.

(copied and pasted the transaction from my bank account.)

Good?


----------



## unbe

Response received: does this even warrant a response from me?


Hi, I got your email. If you cover Xxxxx then that sounds fine (agreeing to my original proposal) My lawyer has included everything in his fees so I will cover the cost of filing an uncontested divorce, and the drawing up of the papers, per what was discussed in our email exchange.


----------



## Lostinthought61

I truly hate people who nickel and dime someone to death, they are small minded and more of a parasite then anything else. but sometimes you have to stand your ground.


----------



## synthetic

unbe said:


> Response received: does this even warrant a response from me?
> 
> 
> Hi, I got your email. If you cover Xxxxx then that sounds fine (agreeing to my original proposal) My lawyer has included everything in his fees so I will cover the cost of filing an uncontested divorce, and the drawing up of the papers, per what was discussed in our email exchange.



Sounds like you don't need to respond at all.

As for the checking account she used to pay her bill, simply do the following (as I did myself):

1. Open a new checking account that is not joint, under your own name
2. Transfer all funds to the new account, but leave $10 in the old one
3. Ensure no payroll deposits or other moneys go to the old account.
4. Do not notify her about this and do not pursue the return of the money she paid for her cell phone bill. it's gone.


----------



## synthetic

Now, here's what you should be spending your time on (reading and digesting). Bookmark it and leave it open on your computer at all times. You should read it enough times to pretty much memorize it by the end of the year:

*DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?*


----------



## farsidejunky

synthetic said:


> Sounds like you don't need to respond at all.
> 
> As for the checking account she used to pay her bill, simply do the following (as I did myself):
> 
> 1. Open a new checking account that is not joint, under your own name
> 2. Transfer all funds to the new account, but leave $10 in the old one
> 3. Ensure no payroll deposits or other moneys go to the old account.
> 4. Do not notify her about this and do not pursue the return of the money she paid for her cell phone bill. it's gone.


Bounce...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Betrayedone

Could the original poster PLEASE have the courtesy to properly spell the title of this thread? It smacks of I don't give a sheet and I really don't care so can't take it seriously..........


----------



## Chuck71

Betrayedone said:


> Could the original poster PLEASE have the courtesy to properly spell the title of this thread? It smacks of I don't give a sheet and I really don't care so can't take it seriously..........


Heck see my 1st thread here

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/61735-normal-fell-way.html


----------



## Lifescript

synthetic said:


> Now, here's what you should be spending your time on (reading and digesting). Bookmark it and leave it open on your computer at all times. You should read it enough times to pretty much memorize it by the end of the year:
> 
> *DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?*


Unbe, 

Read this like synth suggests. It takes a bit to fully grasp it but it's the absolute truth. 

Started reading from the beginning and saw right away that your story is pretty much similar to mine and many others here. Matchbox checked out of the marriage and after that there was little you could do. 

You are getting a chance here for redemption. Work on yourself and become the best man you can be. 

You'll get through it.


----------



## unbe

*Re: Long story, prob familar. Need some support*



Lifescript said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Read this like synth suggests. It takes a bit to fully grasp it but it's the absolute truth.
> 
> Started reading from the beginning and saw right away that your story is pretty much similar to mine and many others here. Matchbox checked out of the marriage and after that there was little you could do.
> 
> You are getting a chance here for redemption. Work on yourself and become the best man you can be.
> 
> You'll get through it.


Thanks script. I have read it a few times but hasn't sunk in yet.

I seem to be struggling with the why part of this. I don't understand why it failed. I never did change from what I was the day we met. I feel like its something that will hold me back from moving on.

Today was a bad day, every time I hear from her it sets me back. I haven't reached out other than what you've seen here...I won't reach out mainly due to fear of what may be said back.

All that being said, I still realize this is what must happen.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Tell us about yourself. Your childhood. Your parents. Are you a "nice guy"? How do you handle your rage? How do you describe your father and the impact he's had on the way you approach the concept of marriage?


Brother, please check your PM


----------



## unbe

Betrayedone said:


> Could the original poster PLEASE have the courtesy to properly spell the title of this thread? It smacks of I don't give a sheet and I really don't care so can't take it seriously..........


Wish I knew how...lol


----------



## Lifescript

*Re: Long story, prob familar. Need some support*



unbe said:


> Thanks script. I have read it a few times but hasn't sunk in yet.
> 
> I seem to be struggling with the why part of this. I don't understand why it failed. I never did change from what I was the day we met. I feel like its something that will hold me back from moving on.
> 
> Today was a bad day, every time I hear from her it sets me back. I haven't reached out other than what you've seen here...I won't reach out mainly due to fear of what may be said back.
> 
> All that being said, I still realize this is what must happen.


Keep reading it. Treat it like a reading assignment. Write about it. Your interpretations of it. I remember Synth told me to read it in chunks (not the whole thing) until I grasped it. 

I remember the days of thinking and thinking and thinking about why, how, where, when ...

I think if you look back carefully you will see that there were some mistakes that if you could do things over again you would change. There's no excuse for cheating of course but women and men do get bored or start feeling unfulfilled if their needs are not being met. 

Do you consider yourself a good listener? 

Did you two spend a considerable amount of hours a week doing something fun/enjoyable together? 

I haven't read your entire thread so pardon me if you have covered this already. 

In the end ... even if you made no mistakes the thing is you can only control and take responsibility for yourself. It's something we must come to accept in order to be happy. It's grim to think about relationships that way but it's true. You can be a perfect husband and have your wife want our for crazy reasons. Maybe your ex had issues of her own that she needs to fix. Stuff that was preventing her from being happy and trickled into the marriage. 

In my case I believe it was mistakes I made early on and also her own issues. She showed a lot of BPD traits. 

Become strong, learn from this and you will be more equipped and ready when the next girl comes along. 

No kids right? Consider yourself lucky. When kids are involved it makes divorce much harder. 

Tough days will happen but as time goes by they will happen less and less frequently. One day you will think "huh ... haven't fought about her in a week ..." then it will be a month until her memory doesn't hurt anymore and you are healed. 

It takes time. Be patient.


----------



## Chuck71

Reason it is preached that you "own your own POS tendencies" and learn from them.

Sometimes both own them and they can repair the M. Sometimes only one or neither do....

You see false Rs all over TAM. 

After this is concluded.... take some time to get to know you.... don't jump back into anything.

I'm going on 18 months since I split with UG. Yes I do miss that "connection" but I am noticing

the red flags. This would have been hard to do if I jumped right back into another LTR.

Granted I have a couple FWBs.... I am content with that now. Maybe I will meet some woman with

that "spark." I'm in no hurry.

Unbe.... you admitted to being a Nice Guy.... when you would purchase things.... for her... 

did you do it to make her happy? Was it a #2 or #3?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Reason it is preached that you "own your own POS tendencies" and learn from them.
> 
> Sometimes both own them and they can repair the M. Sometimes only one or neither do....
> 
> You see false Rs all over TAM.
> 
> After this is concluded.... take some time to get to know you.... don't jump back into anything.
> 
> I'm going on 18 months since I split with UG. Yes I do miss that "connection" but I am noticing
> 
> the red flags. This would have been hard to do if I jumped right back into another LTR.
> 
> Granted I have a couple FWBs.... I am content with that now. Maybe I will meet some woman with
> 
> that "spark." I'm in no hurry.
> 
> Unbe.... you admitted to being a Nice Guy.... when you would purchase things.... for her...
> 
> did you do it to make her happy? Was it a #2 or #3?


Of course anything i bought for her would be to make her happy or to attempt to get her over a sadness she was experiencing. (which was very frequent). She was always upset about work or her family or our dog passing away (months and months after it happened). She cried almost daily...but never in front of me.


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> Of course anything i bought for her would be to make her happy or to attempt to get her over a sadness she was experiencing. (which was very frequent). She was always upset about work or her family or our dog passing away (months and months after it happened). She cried almost daily...but never in front of me.


Very similar to my ex. She was unhappy with her life in general and it affected the marriage. I would always be doing things to make her feel better and also so she could reciprocate and make me happy. Nice guy behavior. Be glad that you wil get another chance with someone else one day.


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> Very similar to my ex. She was unhappy with her life in general and it affected the marriage. I would always be doing things to make her feel better and also so she could reciprocate and make me happy. Nice guy behavior. Be glad that you wil get another chance with someone else one day.


whats scary is it still seems like the right and decent thing to do. understanding that its detrimental to your own health is what takes learning and will be by FAR my biggest challenge.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> whats scary is it still seems like the right and decent thing to do. understanding that its detrimental to your own health is what takes learning and will be by FAR my biggest challenge.


unbe,

We learned to interact with women from the relationship with our mothers.

Treating your wife as a mother figure - and expecting her to treat you as a son - will get you an unhappy marriage and/or a bitter divorce.

Think about it. While it makes sense to men that their wives should support them, etc. - if it bleeds into something resembling a mother's love, the emotional reaction from a woman is that she doesn't need another child.

The sex gets cut off soon thereafter


----------



## Chuck71

In my short D..... I was right at the point of flushing everything out with my STBXW. I had my non-negotiable....

My IC / best female friend offered up (at the time I was unaware it was a popular method) the Harley thing...

Marriage Busters. Yknow... the set your needs aside and meet hers and she will eventually start meeting

yours.... blah blah blah.

It took a few hours at the lake to say "oh he!! no"..... even posted on it... mid January '13

I walked away..... didn't know if she cheated..... didn't care. Walking out on the M was enough for me

Unbe..... about six months after your D is final, you will realize many things.... you can't now.... you're still clouded


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> unbe,
> 
> We learned to interact with women from the relationship with our mothers.
> 
> Treating your wife as a mother figure - and expecting her to treat you as a son - will get you an unhappy marriage and/or a bitter divorce.
> 
> Think about it. While it makes sense to men that their wives should support them, etc. - if it bleeds into something resembling a mother's love, the emotional reaction from a woman is that she doesn't need another child.
> 
> The sex gets cut off soon thereafter


i honestly never thought I treated her like that. I always felt as if she was MY child....

the sex was cut off once she got what she wanted...then it was a scramble ever since to rekindle


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> In my short D..... I was right at the point of flushing everything out with my STBXW. I had my non-negotiable....
> 
> My IC / best female friend offered up (at the time I was unaware it was a popular method) the Harley thing...
> 
> Marriage Busters. Yknow... the set your needs aside and meet hers and she will eventually start meeting
> 
> yours.... blah blah blah.
> 
> It took a few hours at the lake to say "oh he!! no"..... even posted on it... mid January '13
> 
> I walked away..... didn't know if she cheated..... didn't care. Walking out on the M was enough for me
> 
> Unbe..... about six months after your D is final, you will realize many things.... you can't now.... you're still clouded


chuck,

that's where i am now. the second case (or 3rd or 4th, who knows) of infidelity doesn't really matter. What matters is the walking out and lack of compassion that displays. How can anyone be constantly be put though that, and how can you trust someone who has done it more than once? Simple answer, you cant!


----------



## Chuck71

You took on a parental role...... I was guilty of that with my XW. 

It wasn't "bad" but it was there. After her mother died she wanted me to be both her parental

figures. I refused and held her accountable. That is when she began to regress into a shell

and pull away. I wanted to be a H.... not a father


----------



## Lifescript

We learned all the wrong things unbe. Time to recondition yourself. Our upbringing messed us up. But all is not lost.

Resist the urge to fix or do things you don't want to do. If you stick with that you will be a much happier person.


----------



## Chuck71

Read and post on other's threads. I learned a boatload from ReGroup, GP and Zs threads....

We all came in together but mine was quick n over, no kids. I wanted to support those three.... 

dems had kids. That is how I learned about Conrad, Mavish, HM64, ThreeStrikes. Nucking Futs,

CeeGee, Lifescript..... Get the point unbe?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> i honestly never thought I treated her like that. I always felt as if she was MY child....
> 
> the sex was cut off once she got what she wanted...then it was a scramble ever since to rekindle


This goes both ways.

As a husband, we do have "some" responsibility for protecting and caring for the "little girl" inside our wives. That should be no more than 15-20% of our relationship. If it becomes the dominant relationship, she'll rebel like a teenage girl against authority figures.

Is anything more baffling than the thinking of a teenage girl?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Read and post on other's threads. I learned a boatload from ReGroup, GP and Zs threads....
> 
> We all came in together but mine was quick n over, no kids. I wanted to support those three....
> 
> dems had kids. That is how I learned about Conrad, Mavish, HM64, ThreeStrikes. Nucking Futs,
> 
> CeeGee, Lifescript..... Get the point unbe?


way ahead of you buddy


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> This goes both ways.
> 
> As a husband, we do have "some" responsibility for protecting and caring for the "little girl" inside our wives. That should be no more than 15-20% of our relationship. If it becomes the dominant relationship, she'll rebel like a teenage girl against authority figures.
> 
> Is anything more baffling than the thinking of a teenage girl?


RTZ...she has never gotten out of that. I hoped as she grew and we developed she would eventually snap into adulthood. It was 100% of our relationship

It hasnt happened, I see no way it will ever happen. Even going thought this she will be parachuted and supported by her mom who is just go guilt ridden by the way she raised her she doesn't know any other way.


----------



## Chuck71

ReturntoZero said:


> This goes both ways.
> 
> As a husband, we do have "some" responsibility for protecting and caring for the "little girl" inside our wives. That should be no more than 15-20% of our relationship. If it becomes the dominant relationship, she'll rebel like a teenage girl against authority figures.
> 
> Is anything more baffling than the thinking of a teenage girl?


A female from 18-32


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> RTZ...she has never gotten out of that. I hoped as she grew and we developed she would eventually snap into adulthood. It was 100% of our relationship
> 
> It hasnt happened, I see no way it will ever happen. Even going thought this she will be parachuted and supported by her mom who is just go guilt ridden by the way she raised her she doesn't know any other way.


So, you married her hoping she would change.

Lesson learned.

When people show you who they are, believe them.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Stuck in this pattern of waking up and not wanting to get going. Thinking of reaching out to her, but wont. Its like im on the runway being held up by fog and its not lifting until I get out of bed. 

I just have to take this day by day and know that the fog will eventually lift and allow me to take off to 50k.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Stuck in this pattern of waking up and not wanting to get going. Thinking of reaching out to her, but wont. Its like im on the runway being held up by fog and its not lifting until I get out of bed.
> 
> I just have to take this day by day and know that the fog will eventually lift and allow me to take off to 50k.


Unbe,

In his book, "The Road Less Traveled", M. Scott Peck introduces a vital concept of adult behavior.

WALLOWING in misery produces nothing.

His suggestion is to recognize your pain and realize it will pass. Acknowledge it. BRACKET it. Yes, put it in a psychological BRACKET.

Only one part of your personality is hurting, the rest of you is intact.

Allowing that part of your personality to dominate your day leads to less than nothing. It leads to misery.

Bracketing it means - literally - setting it aside. Allow it to be. Resolve to work through it with your therapist and your safe people.

Then GET ON WITH YOUR DAY.

Life is a gift.

Live it.

What do YOU want to accomplish today?

The other parts of your personality are yearning for adult Unbe to step up, comfort the little child that's hurting and move forward.

What will move you forward tomorrow?

Analyze it... and come to a conclusion. THEN, like a Nike commercial. Just resolve to DO IT.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Lifescript said:


> We learned all the wrong things unbe. Time to recondition yourself. Our upbringing messed us up. But all is not lost.
> 
> Resist the urge to fix or do things you don't want to do. If you stick with that you will be a much happier person.


Resolve to evaluate situations one at a time and NEVER engage in number 3's.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> 
> 
> Stuck in this pattern of waking up and not wanting to get going. Thinking of reaching out to her, but wont. Its like im on the runway being held up by fog and its not lifting until I get out of bed.
> 
> 
> 
> I just have to take this day by day and know that the fog will eventually lift and allow me to take off to 50k.



"Thinking of reaching out to her, but won't"

Unbe, I can appreciate the will power it takes to not contact her. But I don't think this is the victory you think it is. 

You have control Unbe. Use it. 

Don't wait for the fog to lift. Make it lift. 

Look for small ways to move on then build on those small steps. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## synthetic

1 hour at a time dude. 1 hour at a time.

I was down to 1 minute gasps at life at some point. If that's what it takes to get you out of it, then so be it.

Try two over-the-counter pills: 5HTP and St. John's Wort

They helped me quite a bit (probably mostly placebo effect, but still, every little thing helps)

Give it a few weeks and you'll notice a light at the end of this dark tunnel.


----------



## unbe

Gents,

Suffered a set back last night, thankfully I dont think it was that damaging. 

I responded to matchbox's text from the other day. This one:

"Hi, i got your email. If you cover zzzzz then that sounds fine. My laywer has included everything in his fees so I will cover the cost of filing an uncontested divorce, and the drawing up for the papers, per what was discussed in our email exchange."

My response was:

"I am not okay with this. Its time we talked."

Now, I sent this response out of anger. My INITIAL thoughts were I don't want her filing and attempting to rewrite history. I want to file and I figured this would by me enough time to do that. 

Also, I am not 100% certain I want to agree to paying all of the mortgage even though I am the one living there. I still feel that she should pay her portion.

She responded:

"I got your text at 12:15 am. I am not looking for a fight"

My response:

"Neither am I"

Her response:

Okay, so im a little confused. I have been agreeing to just about all of your requests. What prompted that text?

My Response:

"If your not willing to meet up with me to discuss everythung further there is nothing I can do about that. I cant force you"

Her response:

"If you want I will meet you at xxxx but I would like to know your intentions for meeting me because its still unclear"


I have not responded to that because I dont know how to, honestly I don't know what my intentions are either at this point!


----------



## unbe

I responded with this:

"My intentions are what they always have been during our time together. To do everything in my power to make you happy!

If a divorce is whats going to do that, then that's what Ill support. I do feel however that text messages and emails are not the proper way to be handling this. I am not your enemy and i don't deserve to be treated as such"


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> 1 hour at a time dude. 1 hour at a time.
> 
> I was down to 1 minute gasps at life at some point. If that's what it takes to get you out of it, then so be it.
> 
> Try two over-the-counter pills: 5HTP and St. John's Wort
> 
> They helped me quite a bit (probably mostly placebo effect, but still, every little thing helps)
> 
> Give it a few weeks and you'll notice a light at the end of this dark tunnel.


Any side effects?


----------



## naiveonedave

@unbe - in D, she is the enemy


----------



## unbe

naiveonedave said:


> @unbe - in D, she is the enemy


Indeed, however she need not know this. If I can approach with her guard down, all the better for me


----------



## unbe

She responded with she is willing to meet me tonight for coffee...I think its time to face Vader. 

Even though Luke is very weak...I have to face this fear.


----------



## synthetic

Very bad idea and you indeed failed. It's done now, so all you can do is learn.



> My intentions are what they always have been during our time together. To do everything in my power to make you happy!


This is the most pathetic thing you could say to a woman. It's garbage, dishonest and unattractive.

Stop being the way you are. Man up dude. Man the f*** up.

And no, there are no side effects to the pills I mentioned. Man up.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Very bad idea and you indeed failed. It's done now, so all you can do is learn.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the most pathetic thing you could say to a woman. It's garbage, dishonest and unattractive.
> 
> Stop being the way you are. Man up dude. Man the f*** up.
> 
> And no, there are no side effects to the pills I mentioned. Man up.


It was my attempt at sarcasm...

I feel like a failure and am unsure I should go through with this mainly due to fear. It may be what I need to just push it forward though...so damn confused


----------



## synthetic

Go see her and put your "realistic" glasses on. You'll see her for who she is. A selfish, but lost woman. She's as clueless as everyone else with regards to future, but she loves herself more than you love you, and that's why she's winning this.

Go see her and realize how you don't really miss that f***ing "attitude" she always has. The subtle but sharp condescending tone.

Count the number of times she uses the word "BUT". It's a clear sign of someone who resents and wants to hurt you. 

Watch her possibly shed tears at will. It comes to them with astonishing ease. Truly professional victims.

Notice how detached she is from your well being, but claims to have always loved you and will even claim she will always love you!

Rise above it all. Speak less, listen more and let her go. She's a lost cause.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Go see her and put your "realistic" glasses on. You'll see her for who she is. A selfish, but lost woman. She's as clueless as everyone else with regards to future, but she loves herself more than you love you, and that's why she's winning this.
> 
> Go see her and realize how you don't really miss that f***ing "attitude" she always has. The subtle but sharp condescending tone.
> 
> Count the number of times she uses the word "BUT". It's a clear sign of someone who resents and wants to hurt you.
> 
> Watch her possibly shed tears at will. It comes to them with astonishing ease. Truly professional victims.
> 
> Notice how detached she is from your well being, but claims to have always loved you and will even claim she will always love you!
> 
> Rise above it all. Speak less, listen more and let her go. She's a lost cause.


Ok. I am trying to set up a game plan going in. Writing down discussion points to try and keep this as business like as possible. It will be hard, maybe the hardest thing I will ever do. I must get through this without emotion and right now I am full of it. 

Any pointers?


----------



## sumij

Unfortunately, as was stated earlier, this is the true person now - not the person who put on a good front. You sound like a very caring person, having worked on trying to please her. But, it has to go both ways. We shouldn't have to "change who we are" for the other person. It's good to improve ourselves, but if the other person doesn't like us for who we are on the basic level, they shouldn't be with us. 

I'm sorry you're going through the pain of this. The sooner you're able to move on though, the better for you. (Not saying it's easy)

Best of luck.


----------



## unbe

Flip and flop all over the place...spoke to a very good friend of mine, shes very wise (and probably reading this). Has the awareness built into her. I can tell!

There is no benefit to me meeting matchbox, I am expecting remorse and its not coming. This will only set me back now and I am not ready to handle it.

Canceling this meeting, advising her to no longer communicate with me via text or email. Its in the lawyers hands now.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Flip and flop all over the place...spoke to a very good friend of mine, shes very wise (and probably reading this). Has the awareness built into her. I can tell!
> 
> There is no benefit to me meeting matchbox, I am expecting remorse and its not coming. This will only set me back now and I am not ready to handle it.
> 
> Canceling this meeting, advising her to no longer communicate with me via text or email. Its in the lawyers hands now.


And, today... just the thought of facing Matchbox has you completely off your game.


----------



## synthetic

> There is no benefit to me meeting matchbox, I am expecting remorse and its not coming.


Remorse? For what? Can you list what she should be remorseful about?


----------



## Chuck71

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=infZSKB5L9I


----------



## Lifescript

Unbe, 

This was definitely a setback. Sounded very weak and victim-like. 

If you sit and wait to see remorse from her you will be waiting a long time. Instead make moves to improve your life and move forward. The better you become the more distance you will put between you and her because when you regain your sense of worth and self love you won't want to be associated with someone like her.

Why do you think she should pay mortgage?


----------



## turnera

And read Lifescript's thread! To see how much better off you can be.


----------



## Chuck71

Lifescript said:


> Unbe,
> 
> This was definitely a setback. Sounded very weak and victim-like.
> 
> If you sit and wait to see remorse from her you will be waiting a long time. Instead make moves to improve your life and move forward. The better you become the more distance you will put between you and her because when you regain your sense of worth and self love you won't want to be associated with someone like her.
> 
> Why do you think she should pay mortgage?


I virtually guarantee you Unbe.... even IF she acknowledges her faults.... you will not see remorse. 

She will have to "OWN" it. You said yourself she never has. Why would she now?


----------



## unbe

Update:

Yesterday was for sure a moment of weakness that I succumbed to. 

Canceling the meeting was the right move though. I felt good today when I woke up.

I am not saying its a turning point, merely a step in the right direction to detachment. 

I am doing things to improve myself however I'm only taking baby steps whereas I need to be striding like lebron driving down the lane!

When canceling last night with MB, I advised her I will not respond to any more contact from her. Everything needs to go through the lawyers from here on out. I can not stay in direct contact with her as it just sets me back when I do. The fees will rack up and I don't care, can always make more money. What I can not do is by back my sanity!

Synt: Not sure for what. I mean I know what I want to hear but this is me just being selfish. The act yesterday by me was SELFISH

Script: I want her to own up to half her debt until this house is sold. Again its petty and SELFISH of me.

Chuck: She wont, ever. In her mind shes done nothing wrong

All, I don't even know WHY I want remorse from her. IT DOES ME NO GOOD! Nothing changes, its just me not detaching and that needs to end NOW.

Im am a grown a$$ man and need to act like this. Wallowing is doing me NO GOOD. Sure, its going to hurt but I need to acknowledge the pain then squash it immediately. I cant even sit here a list reasons why I want her back that have ANYTHING TO DO WITH HER!!! Its just the role that I miss. Well, looks like that spot is open and I will start taking applicants (not now!)

RTZ, thanks for last night buddy. Those links helped alot. 

All, thanks for all your continued support.


----------



## synthetic

You're on the right track. Keep walking.


----------



## unbe

Synt

The walk is slow right now and there are pot holes everywhere. Plus its night time in Alaska!

Anyone have one of those mining helmets?


----------



## unbe

Side thought:

I think i figured out what is keeping me in this funk..

Obv I loved her, or the thought of what she represented to me for a very short time a very loooong time ago. Smoke and mirrors

Whats got me down is not the thought of HER being gone, more that thought of that role in my life being empty. 

Where i need to get to is this: That role being filled our not should not determine my happiness. It should only enhance it!

I dont want HER back, I want someone to fill the role. I want the role back.

As a matter of fact, MB was quite annoying! She was also right, we did and do have nothing in common. 

That role needs to stay empty for some time. Otherwise it will be filled by another non worthy actor!


----------



## turnera

I always advise people to stay single after a breakup long enough to not NEED someone to keep you from being lonely. Once you're ok being alone, you won't be lonely. The rule of thumb is one month on your own without dating for every year you were together with your ex.


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> I always advise people to stay single after a breakup long enough to not NEED someone to keep you from being lonely. Once you're ok being alone, you won't be lonely. The rule of thumb is one month on your own without dating for every year you were together with your ex.


By dating you mean the big leagues correct?

Can I still participate in T ball up to AA?


----------



## turnera

lol. Another step to this - one that I get a lot of kickback on - is to tell people that if they're going to date upon ditching your ex, to not see that person more than twice a month. 

What?! Say what?!

I'm serious. 

You know that 'high' feeling you have when you're dating someone new? It comes from PEA chemicals. It's like a drug addiction. And the more often you see that person, the stronger the drug becomes in your body, to where you ARE addicted, and all you can think about is getting to see that person again.

THAT is when you start making mistakes, overlooking bad qualities, jumping in when you know better.

So not seeing a new person more than twice a month, for the first 3 or 4 months, allows you to TALK to them or TEXT them, but not bond over the PEA chemicals. That way, you have time to see them in good AND bad situations, see how they treat the waiter and be able to walk away if they're just a b*tch to the waiter, kwim?


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> lol. Another step to this - one that I get a lot of kickback on - is to tell people that if they're going to date upon ditching your ex, to not see that person more than twice a month.
> 
> What?! Say what?!
> 
> I'm serious.
> 
> You know that 'high' feeling you have when you're dating someone new? It comes from PEA chemicals. It's like a drug addiction. And the more often you see that person, the stronger the drug becomes in your body, to where you ARE addicted, and all you can think about is getting to see that person again.
> 
> THAT is when you start making mistakes, overlooking bad qualities, jumping in when you know better.
> 
> So not seeing a new person more than twice a month, for the first 3 or 4 months, allows you to TALK to them or TEXT them, but not bond over the PEA chemicals. That way, you have time to see them in good AND bad situations, see how they treat the waiter and be able to walk away if they're just a b*tch to the waiter, kwim?


Sure. Makes sense...how about like 5 different girls twice a month. 

Everyone cool with that? 😉


----------



## turnera

Yeah, I'm fine with that. Keeps you from getting committed. I WOULD ask, though, that you be honorable with them and let them know you're just playing the field for now.


----------



## sapientia

turnera said:


> lol. Another step to this - one that I get a lot of kickback on - is to tell people that if they're going to date upon ditching your ex, to not see that person more than twice a month.
> 
> What?! Say what?!
> 
> I'm serious.
> 
> You know that 'high' feeling you have when you're dating someone new? It comes from PEA chemicals. It's like a drug addiction. And the more often you see that person, the stronger the drug becomes in your body, to where you ARE addicted, and all you can think about is getting to see that person again.
> 
> THAT is when you start making mistakes, overlooking bad qualities, jumping in when you know better.
> 
> So not seeing a new person more than twice a month, for the first 3 or 4 months, allows you to TALK to them or TEXT them, but not bond over the PEA chemicals. That way, you have time to see them in good AND bad situations, see how they treat the waiter and be able to walk away if they're just a b*tch to the waiter, kwim?


I agree. I dated 1-2x a week and only saw each fellow once. LOL, good times.

(note to the TAM guys: I always bought my own lunch, coffee, etc.)

The PEA/oxytocin rationalization isn't quite right, however. Some people can still make their own through text or email contact, even without physical contact. It's why those crazies fall in love with celebrities, online, etc.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Side thought:
> 
> 
> 
> I think i figured out what is keeping me in this funk..
> 
> 
> 
> Obv I loved her, or the thought of what she represented to me for a very short time a very loooong time ago. Smoke and mirrors
> 
> 
> 
> Whats got me down is not the thought of HER being gone, more that thought of that role in my life being empty.
> 
> 
> 
> Where i need to get to is this: That role being filled our not should not determine my happiness. It should only enhance it!
> 
> 
> 
> I dont want HER back, I want someone to fill the role. I want the role back.
> 
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact, MB was quite annoying! She was also right, we did and do have nothing in common.
> 
> 
> 
> That role needs to stay empty for some time. Otherwise it will be filled by another non worthy actor!



I would continue to think harder about why you would want her back - and why you loved her for that matter. 

Don't kid yourself, there's a part of you that still wants her back. It's healthy to accept that part of you without indulging it. 

When you find the why you find what needs to be worked on. 

I bet it has little to do with her. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> Side thought:
> 
> I think i figured out what is keeping me in this funk..
> 
> Obv I loved her, or the thought of what she represented to me for a very short time a very loooong time ago. Smoke and mirrors
> 
> Whats got me down is not the thought of HER being gone, more that thought of that role in my life being empty.
> 
> Where i need to get to is this: That role being filled our not should not determine my happiness. It should only enhance it!
> 
> I dont want HER back, I want someone to fill the role. I want the role back.
> 
> As a matter of fact, MB was quite annoying! She was also right, we did and do have nothing in common.
> 
> That role needs to stay empty for some time. Otherwise it will be filled by another non worthy actor!


I can totally relate to this unbe. 

For me it was the role of being head of a family that I wanted back. I wanted to feel like I still had my family intact. I'm a family oriented guy by nature so seeing that disintegrate was very tough. 

Honestly I would advise not to date. Just work on yourself. I mean if you meet someone just doing your own thing, by chance, then by all means explore it but not having detached from your nice guy persona means you will make mistakes, attach quickly and get hurt. 

Others would say best thing to do is be with other women to help let go of matchbox. I agree that it could help but we tend to fall quickly. By the time we notice how deep we are in is too late. 

I'm now at a point in my recovery where I feel I'm ready because I rarely if ever get lower than 50k. It's where I live now. I don't need anyone to be happy. I would like to have someone but it won't break me if I dont. 

How many women have you been with?

Let go of her paying mortgage. This will just complicate things. My 2 cents.


----------



## Chuck71

I always will.......... love WC for........ who she was. Was.... past

tense. Sometimes we, guys, wish to hold on to who we wished they still were.

Great five years, not so good five years, bad five years.... heeeyyy we're due

for a turn around. No you are not. I was always told, once M, always M, fight it

out. And I had several relatives who had more cuss fights than a sailor's convention.

But they worked through things.... did things together... appeared happy and content.

WC and I both were bad at communicating. We would argue more early on but near

the last few years..... we stopped. She went to her part of the house, I went to mine.

I drank and began to write.... she ate and collected dogs. I will never forget one very late

Saturday night.... I was still up, listening to UTube, Cinderella's "Heartbreak Station" ....

released some 22 years prior. I had heard it a thousand times but this time... it was 

different. It's like I knew what would occur several months later. WC was more detached

than I was. I had my low moments... lasted about a month, dropped into the rabbit hole.

Had my one last boo-hoo and came back swinging... boundaries and Rocky IV. Then came

the reaches....but by this time I had one non-negotiable and that was not a guarantee things

would work out. Few weeks before D final... I had left the home until she was gone, I placed

her in a situation where A we can leave the door open or B close it, throw away key. She chose

B and "called my bluff." Chuck had four aces... game was over. Once my trust in people is gone,

it may partially return but... never like it was. A friend... yeah... if anyone recalls my Compare / Contrast

post around July 4th last year....MW was my running buddy in HS. He taught me a lot. He also

hit on 1st love behind my back. Been over 25 years ago... we're friends but just like I am with 

the guy who I cracked jokes with in senior English class. His loss, not mine.

As for trust in a spouse.... once it's gone, can't ever come back fully. Yet I demand that from a 

spouse.... it's what I give. So when I knew my trust in her was gone and could never return,

it was over. Loving and not trusting a spouse is a road to misery. Main reason 1st love 

still chases me and I just roll my eyes. 

Unbe.... if you listed the five things you loved about her in the beginning.... and pinpoint

when those things / actions were stopped. You will see a pattern.


----------



## Chuck71

Dating is just it.... dating. If you are with someone simply from being lonely,

you will feed off of her as she quells your loneliness. Next thing you know....

moved in, M. You chose her not because you liked her qualities but she kept

you from being lonely. You're not lonely any more but look at all the red flags

you missed. Most people will show you their red flags, it is up to you to decide

if it is too much or something you can live with. Maybe she was lonely too.

Few years go by... one or both realize they made a mistake and there you are,

right back where you were before. One may cheat, both may cheat. Another

trip to the lawyers. It's a cycle.... reason why 2nd M have higher D rate than 1st, 

3rd more than 2nd..... 

Do your own thing..... a g/f is similar to a job.... when you're looking for one, no one

acknowledges your existence. When you do what makes you happy.... they're like flies

on honey. Doing your own thing and working on you... will help sharpen your picker.

When you are at 50k and dating.... you see everything. Yes you may feel a bit like a 

jerk for spurning numerous people but.... you can see the flags. The BSC ones are easy

to spot... the bandaged people are a bit harder. They're the ones who appear to be your

dream come true until.... year, two years in. Then the bandages don't stick anymore.

But @ 50k.... you can spot them much quicker.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Side thought:
> 
> I think i figured out what is keeping me in this funk..
> 
> Obv I loved her, or the thought of what she represented to me for a very short time a very loooong time ago. Smoke and mirrors
> 
> Whats got me down is not the thought of HER being gone, more that thought of that role in my life being empty.
> 
> Where i need to get to is this: That role being filled our not should not determine my happiness. It should only enhance it!
> 
> I dont want HER back, I want someone to fill the role. I want the role back.
> 
> As a matter of fact, MB was quite annoying! She was also right, we did and do have nothing in common.
> 
> That role needs to stay empty for some time. Otherwise it will be filled by another non worthy actor!


Quoted for Truth

Some of us learn this important lesson the hard way. We finally gin up the stones to say no to what's holding us back without doing a lick of work on ourselves.

3-5 years later, we're right back in the same deep tank, but with less friends, less support, and fewer $$$ resources.

Speaking from experience. What you do then is find out what you're made of. So, I would encourage you unbe - to go ahead and find out what you're made of "now", before Matchbox II enters your life and puts you in your place.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> I would continue to think harder about why you would want her back - and why you loved her for that matter.
> 
> Don't kid yourself, there's a part of you that still wants her back. It's healthy to accept that part of you without indulging it.
> 
> When you find the why you find what needs to be worked on.
> 
> I bet it has little to do with her.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


CG,

There is a part that wants to fill that role as soon as possible and she would be the likely fit. However, saying this I don't believe its actually her that I want back. 

I loved her because in the beginning she was so caring and loving towards me, I have never had that before. It felt good (for a little while). I eventually started pushing this away as I felt it was annoying after a bit. This is clearly something that I need to work on within myself, learning to accept that kind of love and emotion. 

TBH, why I feel in love

She was incredibly attractive...WAS. She got lazy during our marriage, didn't keep up her appearance. Never got dressed up to go out, unless she was going out with friends.

She had made promises to always take care of me, I had always taken care of myself. Even growing up...

Her love WAS infectious...

50k views...

She doesn't have many friends, has burned through 7 co teachers in 18 months...7!!!!!

No relationship with any of her cousins (has a bond with her brother, she basically raised him).

Mother relationship is more of a friend and role model

I always made excuses..it was THEM. No it wasn't, it was HER.


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> I can totally relate to this unbe.
> 
> For me it was the role of being head of a family that I wanted back. I wanted to feel like I still had my family intact. I'm a family oriented guy by nature so seeing that disintegrate was very tough.
> 
> Honestly I would advise not to date. Just work on yourself. I mean if you meet someone just doing your own thing, by chance, then by all means explore it but not having detached from your nice guy persona means you will make mistakes, attach quickly and get hurt.
> 
> Others would say best thing to do is be with other women to help let go of matchbox. I agree that it could help but we tend to fall quickly. By the time we notice how deep we are in is too late.
> 
> I'm now at a point in my recovery where I feel I'm ready because I rarely if ever get lower than 50k. It's where I live now. I don't need anyone to be happy. I would like to have someone but it won't break me if I dont.
> 
> How many women have you been with?
> 
> Let go of her paying mortgage. This will just complicate things. My 2 cents.


With...thats a tricky question.

I have had 3 long term relationships..7 months, 12 years and 7 years.

Prior to that...flings mostly.

Seeing other women is a challenge right now. I cant not give anything to anyone right now so I'm staying away. I need all my energy for me, time to be selfish.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Dating is just it.... dating. If you are with someone simply from being lonely,
> 
> you will feed off of her as she quells your loneliness. Next thing you know....
> 
> moved in, M. You chose her not because you liked her qualities but she kept
> 
> you from being lonely. You're not lonely any more but look at all the red flags
> 
> you missed. Most people will show you their red flags, it is up to you to decide
> 
> if it is too much or something you can live with. Maybe she was lonely too.
> 
> Few years go by... one or both realize they made a mistake and there you are,
> 
> right back where you were before. One may cheat, both may cheat. Another
> 
> trip to the lawyers. It's a cycle.... reason why 2nd M have higher D rate than 1st,
> 
> 3rd more than 2nd.....
> 
> Do your own thing..... a g/f is similar to a job.... when you're looking for one, no one
> 
> acknowledges your existence. When you do what makes you happy.... they're like flies
> 
> on honey. Doing your own thing and working on you... will help sharpen your picker.
> 
> When you are at 50k and dating.... you see everything. Yes you may feel a bit like a
> 
> jerk for spurning numerous people but.... you can see the flags. The BSC ones are easy
> 
> to spot... the bandaged people are a bit harder. They're the ones who appear to be your
> 
> dream come true until.... year, two years in. Then the bandages don't stick anymore.
> 
> But @ 50k.... you can spot them much quicker.


Chuck, this is it! This is where I need to get too...You have summed me up my friend- unbe 1.0

2.0 needs to learn and adapt to this level of thinking


----------



## Lifescript

Chuck couldn't have said it better. 

Unbe, 

Like you I loved my ex because of who she was in the beginning. She gave me light when I was dark in the BEGINNING. 

You want someone who is great all the time. I said great not perfect. There's no perfect.


----------



## unbe

Update from today:

Woke up feeling good just like the last 3 days.

A friend of mine sent a picture of matchbox with a guy that she posted in fB. Now the guy was clearly playing for the other team put the fact that she looked happy triggered me!

Now the old unbe would act on this feeling and react poorly.(ie see Mondays actions)

Today, 2.0 acknowledged the feeling, felt it and moved forward...

Feeling very good about how I dealt with this. Winning!!!!


----------



## Chuck71

She is on a high......... it will wear off.

In the meantime, serve her arse. Get it done and over with!

If they're still together when you move, send him a sympathy card....


----------



## Ceegee

Ask friends to not share that stuff with you anymore. Keeps you involved and keeps you from moving on. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> Ask friends to not share that stuff with you anymore. Keeps you involved and keeps you from moving on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kind of like pictures from a relaxing holiday in Acapulco - with posOM.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Ask friends to not share that stuff with you anymore. Keeps you involved and keeps you from moving on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Was my immediate response to this text


----------



## unbe

Rough nite, didn't sleep much. Didn't do anything stupid though. No doubt its from seeing the picture. 

Need to get these under control...time will get me there.


----------



## unbe

Just got served...(2nd time from this btch lol)

Lawyer appt Tue.

Full steam ahead...

Feeling apathetic


----------



## unbe

Actually, the paperwork I got was made up by Mickey Mouse I think...lol

They used a her nick name as her first name? Nothing is as we discussed previously (looks like a template)

I'm going Tuesday, drawing up real paperwork, and having her re-served at work.

Enough!


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Actually, the paperwork I got was made up by Mickey Mouse I think...lol
> 
> They used a her nick name as her first name? Nothing is as we discussed previously (looks like a template)
> 
> I'm going Tuesday, drawing up real paperwork, and having her re-served at work.
> 
> Enough!


The day after she is served..... send her three balloons.....

one says kiss, one says my..... I bet you know what the third one will say


----------



## Chuck71

Those sad / bad mornings will be less lengthy, then less frequent. You are grieving the acceptance

of the death of Matchbox "in the beginning." She's been dead for years.

My Hangover Crew did keep track of my STBXW / XW on FB. But they never shared anything until....

they knew IDGAF. At that point... it was more comical than anything.

But I'm a weird person..... few on your thread can testify for that LOL.

With UG... we dated almost two years. In late December... my IC / best female friend recommended I send UG a

"letter from the heart." I did.... ahem, hold off on the 2x4s guys..... the letter had an undocumented 

shelf life of three days. Within a week I was partying it up on NYE 2014 with a stranger (bird fetish gal),

much better than year prior.... UG was asleep and I brought in the New Year with her daughter and H. Fun huh...

IC / BFF never knew of my shelf life but I think, in a way, she did. Unbe... this gal and I have never dated,

just hugged.... known each other 25 years. She served her purpose super well. She was the one who taught

me how females play games back in '94... my major break-up with 2nd love. I would put her up with Mavish

with the job she did then. FF to 2012... 18 years later... she is M, kids, her whole outlook changed.

I didn't realize this until she gave advice with me and WC. I was all in until about 50% of the way. When she babbled

set your needs aside to meet hers... I was done. Now if it had been ALL me in messing things up... yeah... maybe.

I talked to her after UG in late 2014.... she is older, another kid. I pulled away after about 25%....

She had sound advice.... and would never entirely side with me..... "ok that's what she did, now what did

you do or "not do." She still has regard from me but... not like years ago.

The from the heart letter to UG was similar to the light bill deal with WC in January 2013.....

See... I guess I am a sociopath when needed... but I do have a conscience. Therefore.... to turn into one....

I have to give the female an opportunity to come at me, fully vulnerable.

Then..... I feel no guilt. 

Did I miss 2nd, 3rd, 4th love after it was over.... you bet I did.

Did I regret how I handled it? He!! no

There's the difference


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> Those sad / bad mornings will be less lengthy, then less frequent. You are grieving the acceptance
> 
> 
> 
> of the death of Matchbox "in the beginning." She's been dead for years.
> 
> 
> 
> My Hangover Crew did keep track of my STBXW / XW on FB. But they never shared anything until....
> 
> 
> 
> they knew IDGAF. At that point... it was more comical than anything.
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm a weird person..... few on your thread can testify for that LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> With UG... we dated almost two years. In late December... my IC / best female friend recommended I send UG a
> 
> 
> 
> "letter from the heart." I did.... ahem, hold off on the 2x4s guys..... the letter had an undocumented
> 
> 
> 
> shelf life of three days. Within a week I was partying it up on NYE 2014 with a stranger (bird fetish gal),
> 
> 
> 
> much better than year prior.... UG was asleep and I brought in the New Year with her daughter and H. Fun huh...
> 
> 
> 
> IC / BFF never knew of my shelf life but I think, in a way, she did. Unbe... this gal and I have never dated,
> 
> 
> 
> just hugged.... known each other 25 years. She served her purpose super well. She was the one who taught
> 
> 
> 
> me how females play games back in '94... my major break-up with 2nd love. I would put her up with Mavish
> 
> 
> 
> with the job she did then. FF to 2012... 18 years later... she is M, kids, her whole outlook changed.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realize this until she gave advice with me and WC. I was all in until about 50% of the way. When she babbled
> 
> 
> 
> set your needs aside to meet hers... I was done. Now if it had been ALL me in messing things up... yeah... maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> I talked to her after UG in late 2014.... she is older, another kid. I pulled away after about 25%....
> 
> 
> 
> She had sound advice.... and would never entirely side with me..... "ok that's what she did, now what did
> 
> 
> 
> you do or "not do." She still has regard from me but... not like years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> The from the heart letter to UG was similar to the light bill deal with WC in January 2013.....
> 
> 
> 
> See... I guess I am a sociopath when needed... but I do have a conscience. Therefore.... to turn into one....
> 
> 
> 
> I have to give the female an opportunity to come at me, fully vulnerable.
> 
> 
> 
> Then..... I feel no guilt.
> 
> 
> 
> Did I miss 2nd, 3rd, 4th love after it was over.... you bet I did.
> 
> 
> 
> Did I regret how I handled it? He!! no
> 
> 
> 
> There's the difference



Testify. 

And there can be no other Mav. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Those sad / bad mornings will be less lengthy, then less frequent. You are grieving the acceptance
> 
> of the death of Matchbox "in the beginning." She's been dead for years.
> 
> My Hangover Crew did keep track of my STBXW / XW on FB. But they never shared anything until....
> 
> they knew IDGAF. At that point... it was more comical than anything.
> 
> But I'm a weird person..... few on your thread can testify for that LOL.
> 
> With UG... we dated almost two years. In late December... my IC / best female friend recommended I send UG a
> 
> "letter from the heart." I did.... ahem, hold off on the 2x4s guys..... the letter had an undocumented
> 
> shelf life of three days. Within a week I was partying it up on NYE 2014 with a stranger (bird fetish gal),
> 
> much better than year prior.... UG was asleep and I brought in the New Year with her daughter and H. Fun huh...
> 
> IC / BFF never knew of my shelf life but I think, in a way, she did. Unbe... this gal and I have never dated,
> 
> just hugged.... known each other 25 years. She served her purpose super well. She was the one who taught
> 
> me how females play games back in '94... my major break-up with 2nd love. I would put her up with Mavish
> 
> with the job she did then. FF to 2012... 18 years later... she is M, kids, her whole outlook changed.
> 
> I didn't realize this until she gave advice with me and WC. I was all in until about 50% of the way. When she babbled
> 
> set your needs aside to meet hers... I was done. Now if it had been ALL me in messing things up... yeah... maybe.
> 
> I talked to her after UG in late 2014.... she is older, another kid. I pulled away after about 25%....
> 
> She had sound advice.... and would never entirely side with me..... "ok that's what she did, now what did
> 
> you do or "not do." She still has regard from me but... not like years ago.
> 
> The from the heart letter to UG was similar to the light bill deal with WC in January 2013.....
> 
> See... I guess I am a sociopath when needed... but I do have a conscience. Therefore.... to turn into one....
> 
> I have to give the female an opportunity to come at me, fully vulnerable.
> 
> Then..... I feel no guilt.
> 
> Did I miss 2nd, 3rd, 4th love after it was over.... you bet I did.
> 
> Did I regret how I handled it? He!! no
> 
> There's the difference


Wow chuck, wow.

V-day is here...the triggers may come. The actions will not with the help of my friends....


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Wow chuck, wow.
> 
> V-day is here...the triggers may come. The actions will not with the help of my friends....


Just reach out when you feel weak.


----------



## Chuck71

Gee CG.... I guess your testimony would cover multiple typewriter ribbons LOL

She was my Mavish back then. We all have our Mavishes at different times.

Just like when I thought 1st love was The One.... and WC. My view of The One changes just like anyone

else's. Just glad I helped her through her D back in 1997.

Would I call on her now..... no. Her purpose was to only show me certain things, not everything.

Unbe.............. is VD a trigger for you?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Gee CG.... I guess your testimony would cover multiple typewriter ribbons LOL
> 
> She was my Mavish back then. We all have our Mavishes at different times.
> 
> Just like when I thought 1st love was The One.... and WC. My view of The One changes just like anyone
> 
> else's. Just glad I helped her through her D back in 1997.
> 
> Would I call on her now..... no. Her purpose was to only show me certain things, not everything.
> 
> Unbe.............. is VD a trigger for you?


Chuck, not really. Just figured it would be for anyone in our situation. National trigger day...lol

Actually woke up feeling pretty good. Thanks to everyone for your continued support


----------



## Chuck71

VD is like any other holiday now..... VERY over-commercialized. Why.... for profiteers!

Never has been a big day for me.... it's way too female centered.

You'll NEVER see me drop $75 on the same thing which would only be $35 a week after or before VD.

Anyway.... it was pop's birthday. If you've heard me talk about pop a lot, you'd chuckle too... being a VD

baby LOL. He would've been 75 today. I miss his masterful teaching.


----------



## synthetic

I believe Valentines Day is the most pathetic occasion humans could come up with. It is absolutely pathetic. Yeah yeah yeah, I went and got Angel her flowers and she got me something too, but I can't help feeling absolutely defeated by this engineered lifestyle shoved up our asses by the system. I hate it.


----------



## unbe

Matcbox,

Now that we no longer have a service contract with an oil company (due to you canceling it Friday evening, coincidentally leading up to the coldest weekend in 20 years) any issues that arise in the house in regards to heat/oil burner we will have to cover out of pocket.

Sure enough, the pipes froze last night and now there is no hot water.

I have called a plumber and am awaiting all call back. I doubt anyone will be coming today due to the holiday and it being -20 degrees out so there is a good chance these pipes are now going to burst.

Once I receive an estimated I will be sure to share it with you.

Take Care


Good??


----------



## Chuck71

Think she wants you out???

Pay the bill IF you intend on staying.

Deduct what the cost is on the next month's mortgage.

When the bank sends her a due bill.... you'll hear from her soon enough.

You can have fun with her.... if you're up for it!


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Think she wants you out???
> 
> Pay the bill IF you intend on staying.
> 
> Deduct what the cost is on the next month's mortgage.
> 
> When the bank sends her a due bill.... you'll hear from her soon enough.
> 
> You can have fun with her.... if you're up for it!


Lets party!

It was under our agreement that I let her know if there are any repairs needed in the home prior to acting on them. I let her know...


----------



## Chuck71

Shame she didn't let you know she wanted to turn you into a popsicle 

Maybe she will be nicer next time and send over a Russian chain smoking 58 y /o to do your laundry

What's your fav baseball, football, basketball, hockey team?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Shame she didn't let you know she wanted to turn you into a popsicle
> 
> Maybe she will be nicer next time and send over a Russian chain smoking 58 y /o to do your laundry
> 
> What's your fav baseball, football, basketball, hockey team?


Yanks, Jets, Knicks, whats hockey? lol


----------



## Chuck71

You good at putting up wallpaper?????


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> You good at putting up wallpaper?????


I am good at paying people to put up wallpaper...lol


----------



## Chuck71

Logos in front yard...... grounded in cement.... just sayin'


----------



## unbe

Update:

Got through V-day without a hitch. Still waiting on plumber to come and unfreeze the pipes. 

RTZ, what is it that you always say. When someone shows you who they are, believe them?

Matchbox attempting to shut off the heat the night before the coldest weekend of the year certainly did that.

Time to take the gloves off boys...I feel something starting to grow down there...Dare I say what it could be??


----------



## unbe

Another Gem from Matchbox....

Dear UNBE:

As you are aware, this firm represents your wife, Matchbox, in the underlying divorce proceeding. In the event you are represented by an attorney, please have him/her contact our office immediately.

My client advises us of the email correspondence received from you over the weekend. Please be advised that my client cannot maintain the expenses associated with the marital residence.

Thank you, and I remain,

Very Truly Yours,

Leaches


----------



## turnera

What did you expect?


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Another Gem from Matchbox....
> 
> Dear UNBE:
> 
> As you are aware, this firm represents your wife, Matchbox, in the underlying divorce proceeding. In the event you are represented by an attorney, please have him/her contact our office immediately.
> 
> My client advises us of the email correspondence received from you over the weekend. Please be advised that my client cannot maintain the expenses associated with the marital residence.
> 
> Thank you, and I remain,
> 
> Very Truly Yours,
> 
> Leaches


Unbe..... I stand by post ##1144 

Did you know.... if MB had cut the heat off with a dog or cat in the house..... animal cruelty.

Aggravated cruelty to animals IS a felony in NY. See where I'm going?

How's the wallpaper coming? Do they make porn star wallpaper? That would go good over her

vanity mirror. 

I would send her firm a reply..... from the NY state website pertaining to animal cruelty. 

Since it is a reply to her attorney ... copy / paste the entire law.

Get your attorney working for you. Once you do.... MB will start sending you hate messages....

BTW.... take a selfie with you out in the cold drinking wine. Post it on FB with catchy caption.....

Yes.... she will see it....


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe..... I stand by post ##1144
> 
> Did you know.... if MB had cut the heat off with a dog or cat in the house..... animal cruelty.
> 
> Aggravated cruelty to animals IS a felony in NY. See where I'm going?
> 
> How's the wallpaper coming? Do they make porn star wallpaper? That would go good over her
> 
> vanity mirror.
> 
> I would send her firm a reply..... from the NY state website pertaining to animal cruelty.
> 
> Since it is a reply to her attorney ... copy / paste the entire law.
> 
> Get your attorney working for you. Once you do.... MB will start sending you hate messages....
> 
> BTW.... take a selfie with you out in the cold drinking wine. Post it on FB with catchy caption.....
> 
> Yes.... she will see it....


We do have a dog so I'm really liking this angle! Chuck, draft something up for me if you don't mind. I will fire this off ASAP

Attorney appointment is tomorrow, I cant friggin wait!!


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> What did you expect?


Tun, I don't know TBH. Last week we had an initial agreement in place and part of that was for me to keep her posted in regards to any repairs that may occur in the home. So I did....


----------



## Chuck71

"Thank you for the reply. While I was away from the residence, the oil was turned off. When I returned the doggy had to visit the vet. NY state law does not sit well with aggravated animal cruelty. You will hear from my attorney tomorrow."
****************************
If you left the house for 18 seconds.... you were away from the house. The doggy had to visit the vet.... to see his doctors, the vet gives doggy treats and doggy misses this. 

Not one time did you say how long you left the house. When you returned, oil was off.... that is already a fact. And you took doggy to vet.... did not say specific if doggy was seen for injuries. It's all in how you word things... yknow.... like a lawyer.

Keep in mind..... MB may call the vet. But did doggy see usual vet or maybe a different one?


----------



## unbe

Guys quick question (and I will confirm with my lawyer)

The mortgage is in her name

Deed is in both names

If I stop paying the mortgage, can she kick me out of the house?


----------



## Chuck71

No........ this is marital property.

But.... she could move back in and make your life a living he!! too.... aka War of the Roses

Are you willing to live there until D is final?

I know in NY it is a year wait until D..... with no kids.... maybe get it done sooner? I dunno NY law.

Or do you plan to stay there until you move.... and will you move before D is final?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> No........ this is marital property.
> 
> But.... she could move back in and make your life a living he!! too.... aka War of the Roses
> 
> Are you willing to live there until D is final?
> 
> I know in NY it is a year wait until D..... with no kids.... maybe get it done sooner? I dunno NY law.
> 
> Or do you plan to stay there until you move.... and will you move before D is final?


I am willing to live until the house is sold....This may or may not happen prior to the D.

I think we can get the D done sooner...depends on if everyone is willing to play ball.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I am willing to live until the house is sold....This may or may not happen prior to the D.
> 
> I think we can get the D done sooner...depends on if everyone is willing to play ball.


Matchbox will have to pay if the mortgage is in arrears.

May be good strategy.


----------



## Chuck71

Once you see your attorney... and she realizes you are not going to just walk away quietly from the house.....

it will get nasty. Be prepared and at 50k.

Nothing like MB letting her posom scratch, rough her up and come right over to the house....

call the police, state you did it. You sit in a cell, she gets RO and MB / POSOM enjoy the fixed pipes.

Get a VAR ...... have nanny cams at the entrances. 

Now Unbe.... she has a pattern. All three times she has ran.... has been leading up to a break in the year.

Christmas breaks and summer break. If she goes through guys like she does co-teachers.... it will not be long

before she starts feeling you out. MB likes when guys kiss her arse.... maybe this new guy won't.

Then she looks back at you.

The best way to predict future behavior is to look back at their past behavior.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Once you see your attorney... and she realizes you are not going to just walk away quietly from the house.....
> 
> it will get nasty. Be prepared and at 50k.
> 
> Nothing like MB letting her posom scratch, rough her up and come right over to the house....
> 
> call the police, state you did it. You sit in a cell, she gets RO and MB / POSOM enjoy the fixed pipes.
> 
> Get a VAR ...... have nanny cams at the entrances.
> 
> Now Unbe.... she has a pattern. All three times she has ran.... has been leading up to a break in the year.
> 
> Christmas breaks and summer break. If she goes through guys like she does co-teachers.... it will not be long
> 
> before she starts feeling you out. MB likes when guys kiss her arse.... maybe this new guy won't.
> 
> Then she looks back at you.
> 
> The best way to predict future behavior is to look back at their past behavior.


Chuck, var is in my pocket 24/7. Cameras to be installed this weekend.

I'm fully expecting a shat storm after the meeting today. I'm ready to handle it.

For some reason, I have this feeling that we are on the forefront of some major fireworks. Get your popcorn ready....these next few weeks should get interesting.


Oh and did I mention, been on a few dates with a nice girl I met about a week ago. She's very grounded, knows exactly what she is looking for and knows how to communicate it (all very enticing traits). We are around the same age and have very similar interests as well as taste in music (very important to me). 

She Knows where I am at this moment and seems to be supporting it very well (time will tell)

Not sure where this will go, but I don't mind the attention at all! Not to mention she's beautiful and a lawyer!


----------



## Chuck71

She should represent you in the D then..... just kidding!

Enjoy it for what it is.... I would recommend not parking it inside anywhere.

Your judgment it would cloud.

MB didn't like it two years ago when you were receiving attention from another woman.

When MB reacts....... STAND STILL. 

Before you know it.... the choice will be yours to make


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> She should represent you in the D then..... just kidding!
> 
> Enjoy it for what it is.... I would recommend not parking it inside anywhere.
> 
> Your judgment it would cloud.
> 
> MB didn't like it two years ago when you were receiving attention from another woman.
> 
> When MB reacts....... STAND STILL.
> 
> Before you know it.... the choice will be yours to make


Chuck, on board with this thinking...little guys going to have to understand for the time being.

Just left the lawyer, let the games begin.

MB broke some sort of law based when she canceled the heat. She had filled and it stated something in regards to keeping everything status quo, her canceling the heat was a direct hit against this. She is now responsible for all repairs (5 broken pipes and a cracked water meter)

Also, heard from the STBMIL today. (first time, no doubt fishing)

Said she was sorry all of this is happening, MB isnt talking to anyone about it. She always saw me as family and is so saddened and it is costing her thousands of dollars (shocking MB isn't fittin the bill isnt it :loser

My response was simply, It is very sad what is going on. I did nothing to deserve this treatment. I do thank her (MIL) for being so supportive during our relationship (which she very much was) and I hope she takes care of herself and her family. 

Hope i handled that correctly (I feel I did)

I feel really good today after leaving the lawyer...He assured me she will regret her actions. Lets get this party started...


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Said she was sorry all of this is happening,...


I'm sorry too...........


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> I'm sorry too...........


Yea I should have went with this...still learning my friend


----------



## unbe

Update:

Woke up this morning to a text from MB (first initiated since Dday2)

"If you need to talk to someone about why we didn't work out, or if you feel you need the closure, I would be happy to explain what I feel happened. But please leave my family out of this. They were always good to you and it's not fair to do that to them"

Facts:

Her mom reached out to me apologizing for everything, exposing how sad she was and how much she loved me. My response, it was very sad, no one deservs to be treated this way (referring to me). 

A few weeks ago, only discussions MB was willing to have were to discuss amicable divorce and non contested, already that has changed (both the context on a potential convo and the non contested d)

MB is concerned her lies will be exposed if I continue talking to her mom.

It's always and all about MB

Fiction:

MB cares about my feelings or needs for closure at all


Ok the question here is this.

I assume we stay NC... However do we take up MB on her offer as to allow Luke to face Vader? Or is it too soon for this showdown?


----------



## farsidejunky

No response necessary. Stay dark.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

farsidejunky said:


> No response necessary. Stay dark.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Agreed! A showdown is what she wants. Her master plan for D isn't unfolding as she planned.

STAND STILL

Watch and observe..... popcorn. It's about to get interesting...


----------



## Ceegee

Ignore her. 

If MIL or anyone else calls feel free to tell them the truth. The beauty of divorce is you no longer have to cover for your spouse. You have no duty to protect her any longer. 

These are the consequences. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Im on board with NC continuing...

Lets sum this up. The MB timeline

a month ago- I have no desire to discuss anything with you other than the D, if that is not your intentions stay away

two wees ago- willing to meet for coffee, but what are my intentions? (no meeting takes place)

today- I will be happy to discuss why I feel like this feel apart

Whats changed over this month? 

Chuck, vacation is almost over.....T minus 2 weeks before MB pulls out the big guns.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Ignore her.
> 
> If MIL or anyone else calls feel free to tell them the truth. The beauty of divorce is you no longer have to cover for your spouse. You have no duty to protect her any longer.
> 
> These are the consequences.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cg, I didn't get into too much with MIL other than stating that I did anything to deserve this type of treatment from MB. Lets remember, MIL holds a part of the blame here.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe..... she really does not give two schits about talking to you..... she wants to unload her anger dump

on you..... Why... because you sucked up and took it in the past! Why should you be any different now? 

Odd how MiL called you and according to MB.... you called MiL. Re-writing history....

MB just might be upset she changed things at the house (heat) after filing for D and your attorney 

claimed that was a "no no." Unbe... it's your fault she turned the heat off. You made her do it.... get the picture?

Now that you have down time.... read or re-read ReGroup's thread. Notice how Conrad / Mavish 

coached ReGroup on how to handle Queen Lizard's outburst. MB isn't QL by a long shot LOL but consider MB

and understudy to QL. 

Talk through your attorney.... when she sends you another text / email ...... you know the drill....

I'm sorry you feel that way or no response at all.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe.... curious.... what was MBs dating history like before you met her?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe..... she really does not give two schits about talking to you..... she wants to unload her anger dump
> 
> on you..... Why... because you sucked up and took it in the past! Why should you be any different now?
> 
> Odd how MiL called you and according to MB.... you called MiL. Re-writing history....
> 
> MB just might be upset she changed things at the house (heat) after filing for D and your attorney
> 
> claimed that was a "no no." Unbe... it's your fault she turned the heat off. You made her do it.... get the picture?
> 
> Now that you have down time.... read or re-read ReGroup's thread. Notice how Conrad / Mavish
> 
> coached ReGroup on how to handle Queen Lizard's outburst. MB isn't QL by a long shot LOL but consider MB
> 
> and understudy to QL.
> 
> Talk through your attorney.... when she sends you another text / email ...... you know the drill....
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way or no response at all.


I sure do know the drill....Ive got some reading to do!


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe.... curious.... what was MBs dating history like before you met her?


From what I know...

One bf for about 4 years (delinquent, drug dealer but nice guy lol)

Second was about 2 years he was abusive (according to her, screamed, threatened, broke things etc...)

Very early in our relationship I did catch her still communicating with the second. We were living together at the time and they were discussing him writing a song or some bs...never brought it up to her..typical rugsweeping. Have no idea if it ever escalated beyond that.

The signs where EVERYWHERE


----------



## Chuck71

Felt safe with Nice Guys / KISAs

but truly was attracted to bad boys.

Peruse TAM and see how many WWs cheat on their NG / KISA Hs with..... bad boys.


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe..... she really does not give two schits about talking to you..... she wants to unload her anger dump
> 
> on you..... Why... because you sucked up and took it in the past! Why should you be any different now?
> 
> Odd how MiL called you and according to MB.... you called MiL. Re-writing history....
> 
> MB just might be upset she changed things at the house (heat) after filing for D and your attorney
> 
> claimed that was a "no no." Unbe... it's your fault she turned the heat off. You made her do it.... get the picture?
> 
> Now that you have down time.... read or re-read ReGroup's thread. Notice how Conrad / Mavish
> 
> coached ReGroup on how to handle Queen Lizard's outburst. MB isn't QL by a long shot LOL but consider MB
> 
> and understudy to QL.
> 
> Talk through your attorney.... when she sends you another text / email ...... you know the drill....
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way or no response at all.


----------



## Chuck71

OMFG....... ya made my day CG! Thanks!


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> OMFG....... ya made my day CG! Thanks!



Unbe will get this after reading RG's thread. 

I recommend it too. Real gems in there. 

You'll even see me as a rookie just starting to get this stuff. 

Mav was the best. No one better at understanding the dysfunctional female. (No offense to all females - just the dysfunctional ones).

Really hope she comes back someday. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Unbe will get this after reading RG's thread.
> 
> I recommend it too. Real gems in there.
> 
> You'll even see me as a rookie just starting to get this stuff.
> 
> Mav was the best. No one better at understanding the dysfunctional female. (No offense to all females - just the dysfunctional ones).
> 
> Really hope she comes back someday.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have read Regroups thread twice before, no harm in reading it again. Theres pure gold in there


----------



## unbe

Side note:

Guys, need your help with this.

I seem to get anxious when awaiting text messages back/correspondence back from women. My first wife was very good at responding quickly, MB was awful and it drove me crazy. As I am getting to know other women, I am feeling this anxiety creep back in and I'm sure its coming across that way which is making me undoubtedly very unattractive and needy.

Any thoughts on how I could combat this?


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Side note:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, need your help with this.
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to get anxious when awaiting text messages back/correspondence back from women. My first wife was very good at responding quickly, MB was awful and it drove me crazy. As I am getting to know other women, I am feeling this anxiety creep back in and I'm sure its coming across that way which is making me undoubtedly very unattractive and needy.
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on how I could combat this?



Yes. 

Remember you're a man. 

Grab your nuts and say "oh yeah, I'm a man. If they don't reply when I want them to I'll find one who will".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

When you base your self worth / being on how fast a female replies to your contact....

you are basing your happiness on what others do.

Unbe... how's that worked for you in the past?


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

She's chasing something that doesn't exist. when the buzz wears off after the 1yr honeymoon period, she wants to to make "it" happen.

move on, there is nothing that can be done here.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> When you base your self worth / being on how fast a female replies to your contact....
> 
> you are basing your happiness on what others do.
> 
> Unbe... how's that worked for you in the past?


Not very well chuck.


----------



## Lifescript

Unbe, 

I can tell you from personal experience that talking is a trap you should avoid. It will be about you, you, you not doing x, y, z and her being the victim. 

Take yourself out of the equation. Don't give her the chance to spew her venon. 

When you start dating, talking to women have a rotation of at least 3 so you are not constantly waiting for the one to msg you back.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Yesterday's text didn't trigger me at all...(progress my friends)

I immediately sniffed it out for what it was, deleted it and didn't skip a beat. 

After further thought, I am happy I was able to had that interaction with the Stbxmil. There will be no more cummication with Her however, nothing left to express.

Other than that, got IC today. Met another chica last night, stunning girl...not really much else to say about her lol. Tonight, got plans with another gal. First time meeting her so we'll see where that goes...

Bought some new clothes

Been working out

Moving on....


----------



## unbe

About 1/3 though regroups thread....Great great insight


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Yesterday's text didn't trigger me at all...(progress my friends)
> 
> I immediately sniffed it out for what it was, deleted it and didn't skip a beat.
> 
> After further thought, I am happy I was able to had that interaction with the Stbxmil. There will be no more cummication with Her however, nothing left to express.
> 
> Other than that, got IC today. Met another chica last night, stunning girl...not really much else to say about her lol. Tonight, got plans with another gal. First time meeting her so we'll see where that goes...
> 
> Bought some new clothes
> 
> Been working out
> 
> Moving on....


Good progress here unbe. 

How you meeting this gals? OLD or in your day to day?


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> About 1/3 though regroups thread....Great great insight


We still have a few "FAN" jerseys left..... what's your size?


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> We still have a few "FAN" jerseys left..... what's your size?



Forgot about those. 

Have to dig mine out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

Chuck/cege: do ya know what happened with RG? Does he still post here?


----------



## Ceegee

Lifescript said:


> Chuck/cege: do ya know what happened with RG? Does he still post here?



No, he no longer posts here. 

I think an old TAM friend still keeps in contact though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

I use to talk to rg...would love an update from him!


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> Good progress here unbe.
> 
> How you meeting this gals? OLD or in your day to day?


Old...there is one from day to day..

Honestly, I don't really like OLD


----------



## Chuck71

Lifescript said:


> Chuck/cege: do ya know what happened with RG? Does he still post here?


Last I spoke to him was in 2014. Late summer I think.

He hasn't posted in couple years. He may have gotten back with QL.... if so

we need to troll the waters off Bronx to search for a rotted corpse. 

I miss that thread.... it was serious at times but funny as he!! too.


----------



## Lifescript

Thanks for the info.

RG'S ex was entertaining. Gotta give her that.


----------



## farsidejunky

Ceegee said:


> No, he no longer posts here.
> 
> I think an old TAM friend still keeps in contact though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He does.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Just got home, what a great night. We talked for 5 hours, closed the bar. Kissed good night, perfect.

Great girl, funny, smart, very cute. 

There is light at the end of this tunnel my fiends...


----------



## synthetic

unbe said:


> Just got home, what a great night. We talked for 5 hours, closed the bar. Kissed good night, perfect.
> 
> Great girl, funny, smart, very cute.
> 
> There is light at the end of this tunnel my fiends...


I'm glad you're doing alright.

Just a small warning though. If one of these days you come home and you realize lots of negative feelings crashing down on you, don't worry. It's a part of the process.

You'll ride this roller coaster for a while. The new girl will help divert your attention quite a bit, but not completely. There's still some grieving and painful moments ahead. It's okay. You need to experience them.


----------



## Chuck71

synthetic said:


> I'm glad you're doing alright.
> 
> Just a small warning though. If one of these days you come home and you realize lots of negative feelings crashing down on you, don't worry. It's a part of the process.
> 
> You'll ride this roller coaster for a while. The new girl will help divert your attention quite a bit, but not completely. There's still some grieving and painful moments ahead. It's okay. You need to experience them.


Reason I try to face mine head on..... quick and easy..... just like 4th love.... LOL

Why was I searching for an Easy Bake Oven on Ebay last year?

As C & C Music Factory sang 25 years ago.... Things that make you go Hmmmmmm


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> I'm glad you're doing alright.
> 
> Just a small warning though. If one of these days you come home and you realize lots of negative feelings crashing down on you, don't worry. It's a part of the process.
> 
> You'll ride this roller coaster for a while. The new girl will help divert your attention quite a bit, but not completely. There's still some grieving and painful moments ahead. It's okay. You need to experience them.


Agreed and will be as prepared as I can when those moments come. 

This date went really well. Obv I have no idea where this is going, however, its a great to know that there are women like this out there and to not settle on good enough!


----------



## Chuck71

Great jobs and nice looks do NOT immune them from being broken or BSC.


----------



## Lifescript

Chuck71 said:


> Great jobs and nice looks do NOT immune them from being broken or BSC.


As Mav would say: "Quoted for truth"


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Great jobs and nice looks do NOT immune them from being broken or BSC.


Chuck,

Agreed. This one was prev married. Left her marriage due to her husband having drug problems/cheating and refusing to get help. Had mentioned she went to MC for a while (mostly alone) however it just wasn't going to work.

Honestly, I find that to be one of her most attractive qualities. I like the willingness to fight...That is for sure what I will be looking for in future relationships.


----------



## synthetic

> Left her marriage due to her husband having drug problems/cheating and refusing to get help.


Always take these statements with a huge grain of salt. Your own wife or my ex wife could be giving the exact same bullsh1t reasons to their next partners about you and I. 

Don't take off your mistrust glasses for at least another 3 years, because you're highly vulnerable to falling for bullsh1t right now.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Always take these statements with a huge grain of salt. Your own wife or my ex wife could be giving the exact same bullsh1t reasons to their next partners about you and I.
> 
> Don't take off your mistrust glasses for at least another 3 years, because you're highly vulnerable to falling for bullsh1t right now.


Thanks for the tip. I am usually good at reading people and honestly didnt get that vibe at all, but you never know.


----------



## unbe

Update:

No word from the MB camp...No word from my Lawyer. Feeling indifferent about it TBH. 

I really need to work on this anxious feeling about waiting on responses..something that needs to be brought up in IC. Its a very unhealthy obsession.


----------



## unbe

chucky, been diggin the 80's rock music lately...find myself wailing off in the car. its taking me back to a better time.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Thanks for the tip. I am usually good at reading people and honestly didnt get that vibe at all, but you never know.


What was your first impression of MB?

"Deceive you.... your eyes can do" hmmmm who said that???


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> chucky, been diggin the 80's rock music lately...find myself wailing off in the car. its taking me back to a better time.


Somewhere in the vortex of time and space.... Mike and Angie send you a high 5.

I recall you were into metal..... I'm sure the big names are easy to recall. Try these groups out......

Krokus
Armored Saint
Helix
Badlands 
Babylon AD

but never leave out..... Rush, Pink Floyd, Led Zep, Ozzy / Black Sabbath, Scorpions


----------



## farsidejunky

Def Leppard 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Ceegee

Smh...farside. Really?

You can't put Def Leppard in with Rush, Pink Floyd or Black Sabbath. 

Maybe Scorpions. 


Edit: I don't know that any of these can be mentioned with Pink Floyd. Don't get me wrong, I love these groups, but Pink Floyd was revolutionary. Still no one like them. 

I've made S and the kids listen to the whole Shine On You Crazy Diamond over and over again so many times. Absolutely brilliant in its artistry.

Edit 2: I've also made my boys watch Neil Peart drum solos as much as Pink Floyd. So...


----------



## farsidejunky

Ceegee said:


> Smh...farside. Really?
> 
> You can't put Def Leppard in with Rush, Pink Floyd or Black Sabbath.
> 
> Maybe Scorpions.
> 
> 
> Edit: I don't know that any of these can be mentioned with Pink Floyd. Don't get me wrong, I love these groups, but Pink Floyd was revolutionary. Still no one like them.
> 
> I've made S and the kids listen to the whole Shine On You Crazy Diamond over and over again so many times. Absolutely brilliant in its artistry.
> 
> Edit 2: I've also made my boys watch Neil Peart drum solos as much as Pink Floyd. So...


I was more alluding to some of this bands Chuck was mentioning. No, Floyd is a class all their own. And Rush is the most amazingly talented band that I have no interest in listening to. Their sound is just not my speed, but still uber talented.

But when it comes to actual (for real) talent in the hair band era, show me another band that mixed guitar riffs as well as Def Leppard in High'N'Dry and Pyromania. Pretty amazing stuff.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Im more of a def, gnr, green day, candlebox type of guy..

Side note, no word from our girl from last night. We texted good night after the date. Im asked her to let me know when she's free to meet up again crickets...

Disappointed: yes

Optimistic for the future: hell yes


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> What was your first impression of MB?
> 
> "Deceive you.... your eyes can do" hmmmm who said that???


Indeed...touché


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Im more of a def, gnr, green day, candlebox type of guy..
> 
> 
> 
> Side note, no word from our girl from last night. We texted good night after the date. Im asked her to let me know when she's free to meet up again crickets...
> 
> 
> 
> Disappointed: yes
> 
> 
> 
> Optimistic for the future: hell yes



So, here's the thing. 

Don't ask her when she's free again to hit you up. 

At the end of the date, if you want to see here again, tell her, "I had a great time. I'll call you again sometime".

If you want to ask her out again do so. If you don't you don't. 

You essentially just told her to ask you out and you'll be waiting by the phone. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> So, here's the thing.
> 
> Don't ask her when she's free again to hit you up.
> 
> At the end of the date, if you want to see here again, tell her, "I had a great time. I'll call you again sometime".
> 
> If you want to ask her out again do so. If you don't you don't.
> 
> You essentially just told her to ask you out and you'll be waiting by the phone.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Make sense...is there no hope for this one?


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Make sense...is there no hope for this one?



Sure there is. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Sure there is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Care to elaborate. I feel I need more help with navigating dating then I do with getting over MB


----------



## Chuck71

You're the guy.............. you want to go out with her again..... tell her you will call her in a 

few days. Then call her in a few days and....... ask her out.

She can say yes or no. Making her virtually ask you out by calling you will give her a very negative

vibe. Remember in high school.... when you first like a girl.... you have to do 90% of the calling.

When you become a couple.... that is when she starts calling you more often.........


----------



## Lifescript

Ask her out. Have a great time. See her once a week consecutively if possible. If you do things right, soon she will be the one hitting you up wanting to come over and making it real easy to see her again. 

You initiate to ask her out. After the date don't text much except for setting up another date.


----------



## unbe

Ok let me catch everyone up to speed...I like this one and she is clearly turned off by something.

So after we left the night, I kissed her goodnight. This may or may not have been the right move but there's nothing I can do about that now.

When she got home she texted...

"Made it home. Thank you so much. I had a really nice time. Text me when your home. "

I responded 

"Hey, just got home. I had a great time tonight. Really looking forward to seeing you again. Let me know when your free...."

Heard nothing all day.

Around 4:00 I sent a text. During the night we were discussing music and how she likes country. I said I do too. She mentioned that she hasn't heard any recent country so I told her I'd send her a few songs.

So...

"Hey there, hope your having a great day. here's a great country tune that I've been digging lately. (Cole swidell let me see ya girl). I always follow through on my promises "

She responded...

"Great song!"

I responded...
"Yea, one of my favs at the moment. How was your day?"

Nothing since....that was at 5 yesterday.

Bash me at will!!!!


----------



## Chuck71

You're coming across as needy. Since I have been on the dating scene since late 2014.... one thing

that irritates the fvck out of me is constant text / email. I mean... pick up a damn phone. You can say on the 

phone in 10 minutes what it takes an hour texting. But that would appear needy for the girl too.

If you call.... you're super needy.... if you text you're just semi-needy.... that's what I have seen.

Now I don't "text" unless you count sending messages on my laptop.... to me I just have an 

oversized smart phone LOL

Text no more than 2-3x a day unless she initiates. If they like you, 99% of time, they will.

Keep chat to overview only, save the deep stuff for dates. It's like talking on the phone to a girl you were

set up with back in the 80s and by the time you meet.... you don't know what to talk about.


----------



## Lifescript

At this point you should text her and ask her out. If she's interested she will say yes. 

"Going to be at so and so place x date at such time. You should come." 

Makes it seem less needy. You are going something and would like her to come along.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Care to elaborate. I feel I need more help with navigating dating then I do with getting over MB



Confidence is the most important tool in your dating tool kit. 

Doesn't matter what you look like. Doesn't matter how much money you have or how you dress. 

Confidence is first and foremost what attracts women. It's instinctual. 

Waiting by the phone does not give the appearance of confidence. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Nikki.... there is a local band playing at The Dropped Chandelier. They open @ 9PM. Would you like to hear them?"


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> At this point you should text her and ask her out. If she's interested she will say yes.
> 
> "Going to be at so and so place x date at such time. You should come."
> 
> Makes it seem less needy. You are going something and would like her to come along.


We were discussing going to see zoolander 2 lol. Should I suggest it for tomorrow night? Keep in mind She is a teacher and will most likely be doing school work.

She had told me previously she had plans for a friends birthday tonight.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> We were discussing going to see zoolander 2 lol. Should I suggest it for tomorrow night? Keep in mind She is a teacher and will most likely be doing school work.
> 
> She had told me previously she had plans for a friends birthday tonight.


Nurses and teachers are historically well-known for being very Co-D.

Keep your BS flag raised. If you want to get together through the week, make it a short date. Aka the band.

Or set something up for the weekend..... make a day of it.

After you get a yes.... DO NOT contact her the rest of the day


----------



## farsidejunky

Lifescript said:


> At this point you should text her and ask her out. If she's interested she will say yes.
> 
> "Going to be at so and so place x date at such time. You should come."
> 
> Makes it seem less needy. You are going something and would like her to come along.


This.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> We were discussing going to see zoolander 2 lol. Should I suggest it for tomorrow night? Keep in mind She is a teacher and will most likely be doing school work.
> 
> She had told me previously she had plans for a friends birthday tonight.


I think suggesting something for tomorrow is too short notice plus Sunday nights are usually not good for people that work early Monday morning. 

Do you live close to each other? I'd text her with plans for next Friday. If she says yes. Don't contact her again until Friday afternoon with a simple "we still on for tonight?" 

Just to confirm she's still down for the date.


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> I think suggesting something for tomorrow is too short notice plus Sunday nights are usually not good for people that work early Monday morning.
> 
> Do you live close to each other? I'd text her with plans for next Friday. If she says yes. Don't contact her again until Friday afternoon with a simple "we still on for tonight?"
> 
> Just to confirm she's still down for the date.


We live close enough...I mean about 45 min apart. My original plan was to wait till Tuesday and shooting a text trying to set up for Friday. Then nothing after Tuesday till Friday.


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> We live close enough...I mean about 45 min apart. My original plan was to wait till Tuesday and shooting a text trying to set up for Friday. Then nothing after Tuesday till Friday.


Ok. 

Monday. Offer to meet Friday. Even if she has plans if she wants to see you again she will counter offer with another day. 

Good luck!


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> Ok.
> 
> Monday. Offer to meet Friday. Even if she has plans if she wants to see you again she will counter offer with another day.
> 
> Good luck!


Ok just heard from her...

"Hey unbe I hope your enjoying your day off"

Respond Monday?


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> Ok just heard from her...
> 
> "Hey unbe I hope your enjoying your day off"
> 
> Respond Monday?


Ok perfect. Don't Respond right away. 

Wait a few hrs. 

Then reply you are having a great day. 

And make plans for next Friday or whatever day you are available. 

Not sure a movie is the best date though.


----------



## unbe

unbe said:


> Ok just heard from her...
> 
> "Hey unbe I hope your enjoying your day off"
> 
> Respond Monday?





Lifescript said:


> Ok perfect. Don't Respond right away.
> 
> Wait a few hrs.
> 
> Then reply you are having a great day.
> 
> And make plans for next Friday or whatever day you are available.
> 
> Not sure a movie is the best date though.



Gotcha...I'll suggest dinner an maybe a move after....


----------



## Chuck71

Just don't tell her about your STBXW coming over last night in a trench coat *wink*


----------



## unbe

So interesting...was moving some stuff around and found a journal from MB. Apparently she had a thing in high school for her now lawyer...yea I had a feeling about this.

What do we do with this new found knowledge?


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> So interesting...was moving some stuff around and found a journal from MB. Apparently she had a thing in high school for her now lawyer...yea I had a feeling about this.
> 
> What do we do with this new found knowledge?


Journal is from when you were with her? 

Do nothing. Dont show your cards. 

Also, think twice about reading the whole thing. There may be things there that will open wounds and cause more pain. 

I wish I had not read some of the texts and fb msgs I read between my ex and her fvcking admirers.


----------



## Chuck71

$100 says the lawyer would litigate for sex...... just sayin'


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> Journal is from when you were with her?
> 
> Do nothing. Dont show your cards.
> 
> Also, think twice about reading the whole thing. There may be things there that will open wounds and cause more pain.
> 
> I wish I had not read some of the texts and fb msgs I read between my ex and her fvcking admirers.


I'm not reading it, just found a piece of paper that feel out that she had saved that had some revealing info on it. Apparently a friend accusing her of being in love with this guy...its old from before we met but it still something


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> $100 says the lawyer would litigate for sex...... just sayin'


Chuck, I found texts between MB and this guy about a year ago. Just around the same time MB dropped the this isn't working speach on me.

How much do you wanna bet they were planning this since then, then decided to execute after the new year?


----------



## unbe

Guys can I just mess with MB a little?

Wanted to send a text, "you really shouldn't have left your journal here"


----------



## Marc878

Send it to your stbxmil. >>

In the spirit of maintaining NC!


----------



## Chuck71

Post a clip of Van Halen Hot for Teacher on your FB

Scary thing is.... she may think you meant it for her and.... she comes back home... UGH

Or send her a thank you text for paying for the pipes to be fixed. She won't think anything about it....

until the past due mortgage bill comes....


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> Ok perfect. Don't Respond right away.
> 
> Wait a few hrs.
> 
> Then reply you are having a great day.
> 
> And make plans for next Friday or whatever day you are available.
> 
> Not sure a movie is the best date though.


Script,

Went with

" Hi xxx, day is going well. Been working on my house with my buddy for the past few hours. 

So I was thinking, next Friday. Would you like to get together for dinner and maybe a movie?"


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> Script,
> 
> Went with
> 
> " Hi xxx, day is going well. Been working on my house with my buddy for the past few hours.
> 
> So I was thinking, next Friday. Would you like to get together for dinner and maybe a movie?"


Sounds good.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Post a clip of Van Halen Hot for Teacher on your FB
> 
> Scary thing is.... she may think you meant it for her and.... she comes back home... UGH
> 
> Or send her a thank you text for paying for the pipes to be fixed. She won't think anything about it....
> 
> until the past due mortgage bill comes....


Lol I think the clip may send the wrong message. She's going to think I'm missing her lol. Yea, the ego is that big. She always made comments about people hating pretty girls. Hope the eye rolls where in my mind only..lol

I really want to send that text but not sure it's worth breaking NC over


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> Ok just heard from her...
> 
> "Hey unbe I hope your enjoying your day off"
> 
> Respond Monday?


You: I'm having a FANTASTIC day! Thanks for asking!


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> So interesting...was moving some stuff around and found a journal from MB. Apparently she had a thing in high school for her now lawyer...yea I had a feeling about this.
> 
> What do we do with this new found knowledge?


Hand it to your lawyer.


----------



## unbe

Ok Tamers...success

"Hi Unbe, Friday should work! "

My response (2 hours later)

"Great  hope you enjoyed your friends birthday bash"


----------



## unbe

Ok so finding the journal was bad.....

I didn't bother to read love letters to her x that she wrote while we were together..(very early on)

I did see a list of things she wrote about me. A positive and negative list which hurt. On one hand maybes I could use this to actually help me but at this point I'm not there.

Also found something that she basically admits to settling for me and she never loved me, married me for comfort. This both hurt and helped. Made me realize why this marriage has been so hard and why I was the only one fighting. Also, why she kept straying. 

I almost did something stupid last night but decided against it last minute. 

This was a blow...but I will get past it. 

In some way, it's also one step closer to closure.


----------



## Chuck71

When I discovered the emails my XW (then W) / WC was sending to a guy hundreds of miles away.....

I laughed. The most made up schit I had ever seen. There were some that stung but.... it opened the door

to share my thoughts about her flaws. Guess what.... she didn't like it. Boo hoo.....

She believed her money is her money and my money is her money. Sorry but that ain't the way it works.

So MB settled for you huh? I guess she was brought up to believe no one was good enough for her.

But look at what all MB has to offer..... *eyeroll*

Unbe... MB has never been happy. Therefore she would have no idea when she WAS happy.

An entitled princess just skipping through life. She knows she can get a guy.... that's how she got you.

Look at it this way.... when she uses her miles up.... she will move back in with her mom and collect cats.


----------



## Chuck71

farsidejunky said:


> I was more alluding to some of this bands Chuck was mentioning. No, Floyd is a class all their own. And Rush is the most amazingly talented band that I have no interest in listening to. Their sound is just not my speed, but still uber talented.
> 
> But when it comes to actual (for real) talent in the hair band era, show me another band that mixed guitar riffs as well as Def Leppard in High'N'Dry and Pyromania. Pretty amazing stuff.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I think Unbe is a bit younger than the three of us. CG and I are same age and I'm guessing FSJ

is maybe a year +/-. Floyd and Led Zep are pretty much stand alones. 

Maybe..... AC / DC, Rolling Stones, Beatles. Then you have Rush, Heart, Scorpions, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, etc. 

I recall my stepson listening to Nelly, Will Smith, 50 cents. He was maybe 12. All I asked is.... when you 

want to learn "real" music, let me know. He was 15.... and his journey began.

His favs outside of the obvious..... old Jefferson Airplane and "Jimmy Guitar" 

........ Scorpions pre-1982.... completely different than the radio friendly stuff from them 1982 onward


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> When I discovered the emails my XW (then W) / WC was sending to a guy hundreds of miles away.....
> 
> I laughed. The most made up schit I had ever seen. There were some that stung but.... it opened the door
> 
> to share my thoughts about her flaws. Guess what.... she didn't like it. Boo hoo.....
> 
> She believed her money is her money and my money is her money. Sorry but that ain't the way it works.
> 
> So MB settled for you huh? I guess she was brought up to believe no one was good enough for her.
> 
> But look at what all MB has to offer..... *eyeroll*
> 
> Unbe... MB has never been happy. Therefore she would have no idea when she WAS happy.
> 
> An entitled princess just skipping through life. She knows she can get a guy.... that's how she got you.
> 
> Look at it this way.... when she uses her miles up.... she will move back in with her mom and collect cats.


TY chuck, puts in in perpective for me and very true.

BTW im 38


----------



## farsidejunky

I'm only 40, but my cousins were wild teenagers in the 80's. That is where the hair band exposure comes from.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Tun, can you check your PM's


----------



## unbe

Paging RTZ....where you at buddy?


----------



## Chuck71

Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard, Dr. Howard...... emergency in Room 112..... RTZ saw WC and was blinded for 47 days

that is all.......

LOL..... I think every child should watch the Three Stooges.... classic


----------



## unbe

update:

the trigger from the journal has passed...took about 24 hours. Not bad considering

Been communicating lightheartedly with the girl from Thursday night (lets call her molto). Everything is going well...I am talking with other girls as well, dating a few so well see how this all plays out. However currently Molto is leading the field by about 3 lengths...still its a loooooong race. 

No word from Team Unbe, crickets from Team MB as well. That could only mean something is coming...and its coming soon!


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Paging RTZ....where you at buddy?


I'm here - been on the road.

As has been observed often in this particular subforum, women marry for many reasons, men generally marry for one.

Count me unsurprised at your discovery.

It may sound cold, but it's time to get to 50k and grow up.


----------



## Tall

Just finished the thread. Several similarities to my own timeline and story, so it was interesting to see how things went down.

And to reiterate what someone said some pages back - 38 is a good age to be available to start something fresh. 

Enjoy it.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> I'm here - been on the road.
> 
> As has been observed often in this particular subforum, women marry for many reasons, men generally marry for one.
> 
> Count me unsurprised at your discovery.
> 
> It may sound cold, but it's time to get to 50k and grow up.


Rtz...good to hear from you. Doesn't sound cold at all...sounds exactly right.

I've been feeling more and more apathetic everyday. I am not having bad mornings anymore. I am climbing to 50k...I feel the journal may have given me the fuel to get to that level...was hovering around. 20 for a while.


----------



## unbe

Tall said:


> Just finished the thread. Several similarities to my own timeline and story, so it was interesting to see how things went down.
> 
> And to reiterate what someone said some pages back - 38 is a good age to be available to start something fresh.
> 
> Enjoy it.


What's your story buddy? Love to hear it


----------



## Tall

unbe said:


> What's your story buddy? Love to hear it


It's... not very exciting. Not compared to the sagas that get told here 

In brief;
I'm 37 years old today. I had one short romance in high school, one 12 year marriage and a short romance after that. And then the relationship I am in now. 

I met my wife when I was 19 (she was 18). We got married, and had two children. It was a pretty awesome marriage, with love and laughter and sex and trust, and I am a fortunate man that I got to spend my twenties in her company. 5 years ago she dumped me for another man (went from Happiest Guy Alive to I Don't Love You Anymore in the space of 5 minutes. I was so clueless) - which kind of broke me 

I have been my with current girlfriend... Almost 2 years. And I suspect we've run our course. She's had abuse issues in her childhood, and her past life - and I can't find a good way to handle her, and it's becoming increasingly destructive on both of us. Which is painful, because she is pretty awesome and I care for her a lot.

For my own part, I recognize some of the co-dependency issues that you describe. I suspect the breakdown of my marriage, and the way it ended, contribute heavily to that. Trauma induced codependency or something


----------



## Chuck71

Tall said:


> It's... not very exciting. Not compared to the sagas that get told here
> 
> In brief;
> I'm 37 years old today. I had one short romance in high school, one 12 year marriage and a short romance after that. And then the relationship I am in now.
> 
> I met my wife when I was 19 (she was 18). We got married, and had two children. It was a pretty awesome marriage, with love and laughter and sex and trust, and I am a fortunate man that I got to spend my twenties in her company. 5 years ago she dumped me for another man (went from Happiest Guy Alive to I Don't Love You Anymore in the space of 5 minutes. I was so clueless) - which kind of broke me
> 
> I have been my with current girlfriend... Almost 2 years. And I suspect we've run our course. She's had abuse issues in her childhood, and her past life - and I can't find a good way to handle her, and it's becoming increasingly destructive on both of us. Which is painful, because she is pretty awesome and I care for her a lot.
> 
> For my own part, I recognize some of the co-dependency issues that you describe. I suspect the breakdown of my marriage, and the way it ended, contribute heavily to that. Trauma induced codependency or something


I did think there were four constants in life..... death, taxes, c0ckroaches, Cher.

After reading yours..... there's a fifth... another Garth Brooks song talking about your story.

I seriously think Jack Daniels and Garth have a deal somewhere


----------



## ReturntoZero

Tall said:


> It's... not very exciting. Not compared to the sagas that get told here
> 
> In brief;
> I'm 37 years old today. I had one short romance in high school, one 12 year marriage and a short romance after that. And then the relationship I am in now.
> 
> I met my wife when I was 19 (she was 18). We got married, and had two children. It was a pretty awesome marriage, with love and laughter and sex and trust, and I am a fortunate man that I got to spend my twenties in her company. 5 years ago she dumped me for another man (went from Happiest Guy Alive to I Don't Love You Anymore in the space of 5 minutes. I was so clueless) - which kind of broke me
> 
> I have been my with current girlfriend... Almost 2 years. And I suspect we've run our course. She's had abuse issues in her childhood, and her past life - and I can't find a good way to handle her, and it's becoming increasingly destructive on both of us. Which is painful, because she is pretty awesome and I care for her a lot.
> 
> For my own part, I recognize some of the co-dependency issues that you describe. I suspect the breakdown of my marriage, and the way it ended, contribute heavily to that. Trauma induced codependency or something


Not to sidetrack Unbe's thread, but what work did you do on yourself. The fact that you're with an abuse victim "now" makes me wonder if/how you healed.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Unbe,

It doesn't stop when you "arrive" with self love. What happens is you get this sudden shock about what a complete blind schmuck you've been your entire life. It may be anger. It may be some other emotional trauma/coping strategy you developed in response to childhood experience. What you see when you awaken is your OWN pattern of self-destruction. And, if you look back across all the relationships in your life and their breakdown, you suddenly... glaringly see your role in it.

It will take your breath away. It will hurt like nothing before. But, you would never give that knowledge back - not for anything. Because, armed with that knowledge, you can go forward and live BETTER. Imagine it... for the FIRST DAMNED TIME IN YOUR LIFE! your'e actually going to LIVE BETTER. And, you will know it.

What you may also see is how some of the stuff that REALLY pissed you off about Matchbox also resides in you. And, at that point, I would strongly encourage you to forgive yourself. You didn't know. And, if you didn't know, it's not your fault. But, forgiving yourself is impossible if you start wallowing around like many... who spend hours, days, and years not being able to get over themselves. All that sentimental ****. All those childlike (childish) hopes you had. That's storybook crap from media and TV. Expect to suddenly feel like a bit of a sociopath because you finally SEE it. Yes, you can truly observe others and see through them... because you were first able to see through yourself.

If you and Matchbox were still somewhat together... at that point, it would be appropriate to apologize. A REAL apology from the REAL authentic Unbe. it would take into account all the things you now know about yourself and it would be some of the most humble and tender words ever out of your mouth.

If you reached that point, she may not accept it. But, guess what? It doesn't matter. It's the first step in doing things truly for you.


----------



## unbe

Gents,

Question. Is it worth exposing this affair at this point? Keep in mind that it is her lawyer she is having the affair it with. I have some circumstantial evidence as of now and would need to hire a PI to confirm.

I'm pretty sure he left his girlfriend for her but I do know who she is.

Do we expose to everyone or hold the card and use it later in court if needed?

Keep in mind if we say nothing they both may be more motivated to get this done quickly so that they can live their fairy tale life easier which I can use to my advantage


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe,
> 
> It doesn't stop when you "arrive" with self love. What happens is you get this sudden shock about what a complete blind schmuck you've been your entire life. It may be anger. It may be some other emotional trauma/coping strategy you developed in response to childhood experience. What you see when you awaken is your OWN pattern of self-destruction. And, if you look back across all the relationships in your life and their breakdown, you suddenly... glaringly see your role in it.
> 
> It will take your breath away. It will hurt like nothing before. But, you would never give that knowledge back - not for anything. Because, armed with that knowledge, you can go forward and live BETTER. Imagine it... for the FIRST DAMNED TIME IN YOUR LIFE! your'e actually going to LIVE BETTER. And, you will know it.
> 
> What you may also see is how some of the stuff that REALLY pissed you off about Matchbox also resides in you. And, at that point, I would strongly encourage you to forgive yourself. You didn't know. And, if you didn't know, it's not your fault. But, forgiving yourself is impossible if you start wallowing around like many... who spend hours, days, and years not being able to get over themselves. All that sentimental ****. All those childlike (childish) hopes you had. That's storybook crap from media and TV. Expect to suddenly feel like a bit of a sociopath because you finally SEE it. Yes, you can truly observe others and see through them... because you were first able to see through yourself.
> 
> If you and Matchbox were still somewhat together... at that point, it would be appropriate to apologize. A REAL apology from the REAL authentic Unbe. it would take into account all the things you now know about yourself and it would be some of the most humble and tender words ever out of your mouth.
> 
> If you reached that point, she may not accept it. But, guess what? It doesn't matter. It's the first step in doing things truly for you.


Rtz...welcome back buddy. WOW

How do i get here? I would like nothing more than to reach this level of clarity. Im getting this in drips and drabs now...small things im noticing about my POS tendencies. . I can tell you, the pretenses she apparently married me under, were that same I married my first wife under!


----------



## Chuck71

We ALL have POS tendencies. We ALL have a vice. 

To see yourself.... untampered, it's somewhat an out of body experience. Then you watch

as the nasty a$$ POS t's hit you like bugs on a windshield. It makes the cleansing that much better.

You bring your A game..... you "try" to every single day.

Others notice this......


----------



## turnera

I would have a talk with the POS lawyer (nothing in writing!). Tell him if he wants your wife, he can have her, but he'd better make it easy for you. Or else you'll find out how to draw this out and make it messy for everyone.


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> I would have a talk with the POS lawyer (nothing in writing!). Tell him if he wants your wife, he can have her, but he'd better make it easy for you. Or else you'll find out how to draw this out and make it messy for everyone.


How do I go about arranging this meeting? I was thinking of scheduling a meeting with him as someone else and then me showing up. 

I am also awaiting instruction from my lawyer on how to proceed.


----------



## turnera

I'd just take a day off and hang out where he works and catch up to him as he walks out. Doesn't take that long to tell him to stay the F away from you and get on with it.


----------



## Chuck71

Nothing like pictures..... 70s style


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> How do I go about arranging this meeting? I was thinking of scheduling a meeting with him as someone else and then me showing up.
> 
> I am also awaiting instruction from my lawyer on how to proceed.


I wouldn't empty your chamber yet.

Wait until you reach that "unsolvable" impasse.

Trust me, it's coming.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Rtz...welcome back buddy. WOW
> 
> How do i get here? I would like nothing more than to reach this level of clarity. Im getting this in drips and drabs now...small things im noticing about my POS tendencies. . I can tell you, the pretenses she apparently married me under, were that same I married my first wife under!


Do you think that's coincidence?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Do you think that's coincidence?


Not in the least....Question is. How do I prevent it from happening again!


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Not in the least....Question is. How do I prevent it from happening again!


Work towards that "moment" of seeing through yourself.

For me, the moment came thusly:

My wife had been threatening to move out. My safe man and I surmised it was not under my control, so I simply tried to live my life as if it weren't happening. But, I wasn't awake yet, so this wasn't possible. Things reached a bit of a climax when my wife inaccurately accused me of something. I had been telling her not to use profanity during our disagreements and that I wouldn't put up with it.. yadda, yadda, yadda.

This night I was 100% innocent - as in Billy Joel Innocent Man innocent. No bad intentions, I was even trying to be helpful. She made her accusation and the more I pursued her to explain myself, the colder she got (sound familiar?). Finally, I told her I was going to give up on her... she gave me both fingers.

Inside, something snapped. I stood on the staircase and emptied my rather florid vocabulary. Every derogatory word I could think of. As hateful and as mean as I could possibly get.

This ended with me collapsing upstairs in bed and not really giving it too much thought. Just another fight. Just more b.s. Just more intransigence from her. Just another stalemate.

After she moved out (again), we ended up in a marriage counseling session I arranged. She told the therapist what happened. I gave "my side" and was sitting there. My wife blew up and left the room (normal behavior) and I was left with my therapist. I noticed she was getting emotional. I asked her what was up.

"RTZ, I'm an abuse victim too. I was just thinking about how horrid it would have been to hear that from the man I love"

I was kind of stunned. I'd never thought about it that way. We quietly ended the session and I went back to work.

Ok, so now I'm mulling all this over in my mind. I've got my safe man on email and we're kicking it around. I get asked (by my safe man) how I'm feeling. Well, actually, I'm getting kind of angry. I was asked, "At who"? Well, my therapist, of course. Why didn't she tell me that would be so hurtful to an abuse vic..... And, I never finished typing the word victim.

I looked at the mirror on the counter. Guess what I saw? I saw the guy who was getting ANGRY AT HIS THERAPIST FOR NOT WARNING HIM ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF CUSSING OUT HIS WIFE

For God's sake. I wanted to tear my clothes. For years... literally YEARS I'd grown disgusted by my wife's blameshifting. NEVER taking responsibility for anything. NEVER apologizing. ALWAYS finding some way to pin it on me - or others.

And, yet... THERE IT WAS.

It was me. I was that guy.

My head fell into my hands, and I wept bitter tears.

I've never been the same.


----------



## farsidejunky

ReturntoZero said:


> Work towards that "moment" of seeing through yourself.
> 
> For me, the moment came thusly:
> 
> My wife had been threatening to move out. My safe man and I surmised it was not under my control, so I simply tried to live my life as if it weren't happening. But, I wasn't awake yet, so this wasn't possible. Things reached a bit of a climax when my wife inaccurately accused me of something. I had been telling her not to use profanity during our disagreements and that I wouldn't put up with it.. yadda, yadda, yadda.
> 
> This night I was 100% innocent - as in Billy Joel Innocent Man innocent. No bad intentions, I was even trying to be helpful. She made her accusation and the more I pursued her to explain myself, the colder she got (sound familiar?). Finally, I told her I was going to give up on her... she gave me both fingers.
> 
> Inside, something snapped. I stood on the staircase and emptied my rather florid vocabulary. Every derogatory word I could think of. As hateful and as mean as I could possibly get.
> 
> This ended with me collapsing upstairs in bed and not really giving it too much thought. Just another fight. Just more b.s. Just more intransigence from her. Just another stalemate.
> 
> After she moved out (again), we ended up in a marriage counseling session I arranged. She told the therapist what happened. I gave "my side" and was sitting there. My wife blew up and left the room (normal behavior) and I was left with my therapist. I noticed she was getting emotional. I asked her what was up.
> 
> "RTZ, I'm an abuse victim too. I was just thinking about how horrid it would have been to hear that from the man I love"
> 
> I was kind of stunned. I'd never thought about it that way. We quietly ended the session and I went back to work.
> 
> Ok, so now I'm mulling all this over in my mind. I've got my safe man on email and we're kicking it around. I get asked (by my safe man) how I'm feeling. Well, actually, I'm getting kind of angry. I was asked, "At who"? Well, my therapist, of course. Why didn't she tell me that would be so hurtful to an abuse vic..... And, I never finished typing the word victim.
> 
> I looked at the mirror on the counter. Guess what I saw? I saw the guy who was getting ANGRY AT HIS THERAPIST FOR NOT WARNING HIM ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF CUSSING OUT HIS WIFE
> 
> For God's sake. I wanted to tear my clothes. For years... literally YEARS I'd grown disgusted by my wife's blameshifting. NEVER taking responsibility for anything. NEVER apologizing. ALWAYS finding some way to pin it on me - or others.
> 
> And, yet... THERE IT WAS.
> 
> It was me. I was that guy.
> 
> My head fell into my hands, and I wept bitter tears.
> 
> I've never been the same.


Those moments are never easy.

But what we do with those moments are what separates good men from average ones.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Tall

ReturntoZero said:


> Not to sidetrack Unbe's thread, but what work did you do on yourself. The fact that you're with an abuse victim "now" makes me wonder if/how you healed.


I can share some, if Unbe is ok with his thread being sidetracked.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Tall said:


> I can share some, if Unbe is ok with his thread being sidetracked.


I can speak for unbe on this - he's all about answers, and he's waking up. Please continue.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Here's the thing unbe... if you reject sympathy, if you quit wallowing in victim puke, if you go to therapy and engage in honest direct dialogue with a competent therapist about your childhood and how you "see things" and why you behave the way you do...., and you have a safe man to accelerate the process, there is no way you won't learn about yourself.

As Anthony DeMello said... this process hurts. And, as humans, we do nearly damned near everything to avoid pain. If you don't believe him, look at all these forums and all these stories. Look how similar they all are. It's like we're all watching a big movie and we're sitting there in the chairs. But, the movie isn't real.

Some of us get up and go to the back of the theatre and consider leaving. But, it's scary outside, so we go back to our seats, take on a beta male character and attempt to ride it out in denial.

Others of us leave the theatre and get hammered by reality. But, we grow.

The ones I pity most are those that simply insist on watching the movie. Their woman leaves the seat next to them and they blame her for leaving before it's over. They manage to persuade another to take her chair and they continue watching it until they breathe their last - learning nothing.

Don't be that guy.


----------



## unbe

Tall said:


> I can share some, if Unbe is ok with his thread being sidetracked.


Please do!


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Here's the thing unbe... if you reject sympathy, if you quit wallowing in victim puke, if you go to therapy and engage in honest direct dialogue with a competent therapist about your childhood and how you "see things" and why you behave the way you do...., and you have a safe man to accelerate the process, there is no way you won't learn about yourself.
> 
> As Anthony DeMello said... this process hurts. And, as humans, we do nearly damned near everything to avoid pain. If you don't believe him, look at all these forums and all these stories. Look how similar they all are. It's like we're all watching a big movie and we're sitting there in the chairs. But, the movie isn't real.
> 
> Some of us get up and go to the back of the theatre and consider leaving. But, it's scary outside, so we go back to our seats, take on a beta male character and attempt to ride it out in denial.
> 
> Others of us leave the theatre and get hammered by reality. But, we grow.
> 
> The ones I pity most are those that simply insist on watching the movie. Their woman leaves the seat next to them and they blame her for leaving before it's over. They manage to persuade another to take her chair and they continue watching it until they breathe their last - learning nothing.
> 
> Don't be that guy.


Rtz,

This is a good guideline. I am in therapy and shes not challenging me as of yet. I have been to 3 sessions, is it to soon to start looking for another?

Rejecting sympathy hasn't begun yet...this needs to start

After reading what you wrote, it appears I am still at step one. The only steps I have taken is the wallowing isn't as frequent as it once was and I am doing things for myself (therapy and spiritual counseling, safe man secured!)

I also haven't cried about this yet, not once. I feel until this happens the real healing wont start!


----------



## synthetic

Rejecting sympathy is indeed one of the hardest endeavors I had to take in my healing process. As RTZ said, it's very rough and much more painful than the breakup of the marriage itself. It forces you to face YOU. Not something any animal/human does by instinct. It goes against the notion of survival and can feel completely detrimental at times.

It changed me to the point of not even recognizing myself when I think about the past. Once I started forgiving myself, I realized my ex-wife had been a pillar of my growth. I wish I could thank her for that without coming off as weird or offensive. It's the only thing "left to do" with regards to my previous marriage. It may never get done.

Not a day goes by without me thinking how the previous version of Synthetic would've absolutely destroyed any prospects of a normal and long-lasting relationship with my current partner. She might be Angel, but damn, the new me is much more of an angel than she could possibly imagine. That, I'm quite proud of.

I still have my weaknesses, but I'm no longer defined by them. I simply carry them with me and try to shed as much of them as I can every chance I get. It's not easy, but I'm doing it.


----------



## turnera

I would go one more time and as soon as you get there, tell her you were hoping to get her challenging you to change things, that you don't want to just talk - you want instructions for ways to change things. And if she doesn't by the end of the session, try another one.


----------



## ReturntoZero

turnera said:


> I would go one more time and as soon as you get there, tell her you were hoping to get her challenging you to change things, that you don't want to just talk - you want instructions for ways to change things. And if she doesn't by the end of the session, try another one.


If she's not up to the task, I would recommend a counselor trained on the Internal Family Systems method - by Richard Schwartz.

We'll talk more about it if you wish.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> If she's not up to the task, I would recommend a counselor trained on the Internal Family Systems method - by Richard Schwartz.
> 
> We'll talk more about it if you wish.


sounds good, let me give her one more chance


----------



## unbe

Lets get to an update:

not much to say really.

trying to firm up plans for Friday with monto, we are just about there some minor dets to work out. Shes kinda slow in responding to me which is annoying, especially when trying to make plans. Again, I didn't get this read from her initially and feel it may be her friends influencing here with this. Whatever...

went out on Sunday with another girl, shes a trip. Fun girl, cute (not really my type) but we are going to hang again. 

No work from Team Unbe...sent an email yesterday that went unanswered. Nothing from the happy couple either....

If the past is any indication, I would expect the world to implode around 3:00 on Friday lol


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Lets get to an update:
> 
> not much to say really.
> 
> trying to firm up plans for Friday with monto, we are just about there some minor dets to work out. Shes kinda slow in responding to me which is annoying, especially when trying to make plans. Again, I didn't get this read from her initially and feel it may be her friends influencing here with this. Whatever...
> 
> went out on Sunday with another girl, shes a trip. Fun girl, cute (not really my type) but we are going to hang again.
> 
> No work from Team Unbe...sent an email yesterday that went unanswered. Nothing from the happy couple either....
> 
> If the past is any indication, I would expect the world to implode around 3:00 on Friday lol


Stop trying to read tea leaves.

When you say "slow in responding", what do you mean?

The legal wheels ride exceedingly slowly. Just be patient.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Lets get to an update:
> 
> 
> 
> not much to say really.
> 
> 
> 
> trying to firm up plans for Friday with monto, we are just about there some minor dets to work out. Shes kinda slow in responding to me which is annoying, especially when trying to make plans. Again, I didn't get this read from her initially and feel it may be her friends influencing here with this. Whatever...
> 
> 
> 
> went out on Sunday with another girl, shes a trip. Fun girl, cute (not really my type) but we are going to hang again.
> 
> 
> 
> No work from Team Unbe...sent an email yesterday that went unanswered. Nothing from the happy couple either....
> 
> 
> 
> If the past is any indication, I would expect the world to implode around 3:00 on Friday lol



She has you where she wants you. 

Occupy yourself with something. Anything. 

Or nothing. 

Alone time is under appreciated. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Stop trying to read tea leaves.
> 
> When you say "slow in responding", what do you mean?
> 
> The legal wheels ride exceedingly slowly. Just be patient.


I mean 8-10 hours between responses...

CG is right btw...she does have me right where she wants. Gotta grow these back before it's too late


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I mean 8-10 hours between responses...
> 
> CG is right btw...she does have me right where she wants. Gotta grow these back before it's too late


That's what I'm talking about.

I dated a really great gal who didn't respond to a phone message until the next day.

Didn't mean she didn't care. It meant she had a life.


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## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> I mean 8-10 hours between responses...
> 
> CG is right btw...she does have me right where she wants. Gotta grow these back before it's too late


"I'm sorry, since I didn't hear from you for 8 hours I made plans to do something else."

"Perhaps we can set another date now?"

We train others how to treat us.

Don't chase. Don't put her on a pedestal.


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## farsidejunky

ThreeStrikes said:


> "I'm sorry, since I didn't hear from you for 8 hours I made plans to do something else."
> 
> "Perhaps we can set another date now?"
> 
> We train others how to treat us.
> 
> Don't chase. Don't put her on a pedestal.


Just a bit too defensive.

"I didn't hear from you in time, so I made other plans. Perhaps another time?"

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## ThreeStrikes

farsidejunky said:


> Just a bit too defensive.
> 
> "I didn't hear from you in time, so I made other plans. Perhaps another time?"
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Even better.


----------



## unbe

well we did talk for a while last night, I ended the convo

I was planning on addressing this topic after the second date if it is worth it.....is that too late?

Meeting a different girl for a drink tonight....


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## turnera

Nah, not too late. Dating is just that - seeing if you're compatible. Might take one date, might take ten.


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## Chuck71

I see red flags when a female blows up my inbox or phone. Especially in the early stages. That is a sneak

preview of things to come. IF I told a female I would call / email her when I got home and I didn't,

the numerous messages were just out of concern. I fell asleep before letting her know....

10+ messages. I apologized, I failed to do what I said. She was a bit upset.... in a way, rightfully so.

Unbe... on OLD sites, females get a boatload of emails. Until you and her decide to agree on a R,

you shouldn't be concerned with this. You should continue talking to other females too.

The one thing that will turn a female off is a guy constantly texting / emailing her.

They love this AFTER the two of you have met and started a connection. But early on... before you

have even met or just after a coffee meet n greet.... NO... it screams needy and clingy.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe.... don't get me wrong, you WILL attract women if you appear needy / clingy.

How were you acting when you first met MB? If you do not learn from mistakes, you WILL repeat them.

There is only one Unbe, you are unique.... let who you are sell yourself... not how big is your house,

how fancy is your car.... your bank book. Let the 20somethings make those mistakes. We're older, wiser.

We are here to make sure you do not repeat prior mistakes.... 

I want children so I have to date younger.... so my BS meter is at full alert. Why?......

If I decided to connect with the first pretty face that wanted children and avoided all the flags.... I'd be on

TAM in 2021.... in GTDaS.... telling a sad sack F'ed up story. I'd rather just be on TAM to give advice LOL


----------



## unbe

Chuck, top notch advice there...thank you

Tonight should be interesting. Just met s girl for lunch now got two more dates tonight 3 hours apart lol

Tomorrow seeing monto, Sunday seeing another girl.

As much as I don't like this, I kinda do lol


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> well we did talk for a while last night, I ended the convo
> 
> I was planning on addressing this topic after the second date if it is worth it.....is that too late?
> 
> Meeting a different girl for a drink tonight....


What were you planning on addressing?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> What were you planning on addressing?


The texting game..

In any event, last night one of the girls canceled (which Honestly I thought the other was going to cancel as she was a bit flaky since I started talking to her)

turns out she was like that because she had just started dating a guy and didnt think it would be fair to hang out with me and him at the same time (bs perhaps, we will see)

Lets call her Wood...

Anyway, things went really well. Im becoming the king of closing restaurants. Was with her 5 hours, shes a social worker. Gets alot of the concepts here. We got along great, fluid convo...joked around. Flirty the whole night (her mostly). 

I went in with a air of confidence excepting nothing and it was eaten up...she even commented how confident I was. 

Night ended on a city street corner with a kiss...we will see each other again.

I am seeing Monto tonight, have a great night planned. Last night relived a ton of pressure from this. Very much looking forward to it...


----------



## ReturntoZero

One of the under-reported virtues of TAM regulars is their mastery of speaking "relationship"

This is a fascinating subject for any woman with an active mind.

I cannot tell you how many times I got a "Wow... how do you come to know these things?"

Even better... you "may" get the PC-laden attempt at shaming for being such a "Sexist" or stereotyping.

Best strategy? Stand your ground. No attempting to convince, but stand by your statements with gentle examples of why you see what others don't - and how it applies to real life, your past, her past, etc.

Quite often, you get the gleam of recognition and then the body language of interest and attraction.

Of course, this provides opportunity for intimacy. If you keep a healthy distance for awhile, this morphs into white hot attraction - from her.

She'll say you're "well read" or that you "get things" others don't.

How you proceed from that point depends on what you want - because all becomes possible.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> One of the under-reported virtues of TAM regulars is their mastery of speaking "relationship"
> 
> This is a fascinating subject for any woman with an active mind.
> 
> I cannot tell you how many times I got a "Wow... how do you come to know these things?"
> 
> Even better... you "may" get the PC-laden attempt at shaming for being such a "Sexist" or stereotyping.
> 
> Best strategy? Stand your ground. No attempting to convince, but stand by your statements with gentle examples of why you see what others don't - and how it applies to real life, your past, her past, etc.
> 
> Quite often, you get the gleam of recognition and then the body language of interest and attraction.
> 
> Of course, this provides opportunity for intimacy. If you keep a healthy distance for awhile, this morphs into white hot attraction - from her.
> 
> She'll say you're "well read" or that you "get things" others don't.
> 
> How you proceed from that point depends on what you want - because all becomes possible.


rtz,

this came out in full force on Thursday when I was out with wood. she made numerous comments how I was enlightened and how comofrtable she was talking to me. How she felt she new me forever and she was even asking me for advice.

On a side note, I asked wood to go out again sunday night and she said she had plans this weekend at her parents. I told her to let me know when she is free...(prob not a good move). Any tips on this going forward?

Lets get to last night....

Monto is a introvert (like me). She is not co dependent what so ever!

We met a little adversity in the beginning of the night, we had missed a train which would have enabled us to have dinner prior to our plans (Broadway show). We laughed it off and continued our car ride in. 2 hour car ride talking about music, travel (small talk). She was nervous, still couldn't get a real vibe if shes into me. 

Arrive in the city around an hour before the show, went to a bar grabbed a drink and an app. As walking through the city she interlocked my arm and walked close, starting to feel more comfortable (as was I). Our first date we did kiss goodnight but I felt I may have come on strong and didn't want to do that again, so I wanted her at least make the first move. 

Went to to show, amazing! We had a great time. Laughed during the funny parts, held hands during the sappy parts. Perfect!

Afterwards we walked around the city for a while, im not a big walker (and my legs are killing me today) but I wanted an excuse to walk arm and arm with her (mission accomplished!)

Went to a pizza bar, shared a pizza. Couple glasses of wine more conversation, more small talk. 

Walking through the theater district on the corner of 7th we are waiting for the light, I make a move and kiss her. I can tell now shes into me...the guard is down.

Car ride home, we are both shot! Listen to some good country, arrive at her house. I walk her to her door and we say goodnight for 30 minutes! 

Needless to say it was a great night and I am looking forward to the next time we see each other.


----------



## farsidejunky

Call me when you are free?

Stop putting the ball in her court.

How about: Have fun!

Nothing more, nothing less.

Unbe, it is clear as day that you are seeking validation from the women you are dating. Where my concern lies is if this insecurity is cause or effect... Were you insecure prior to this marriage?

Speaking from experience on this one; the weight of your insecurity on someone else shoulders is heavy. It causes them to avoid you. 

You need to take a close look at why you don't truly love and believe in yourself. When you do, you don't need to be fed ego kibbles anymore.

Find your worth, Unbe.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

"Call me when you are free" ............ what did we tell you.... what.... a week ago?

After the Sunday thing........ "Okay.... have a great time! I'll get back with you later in the week."

Look.... if she likes you... I bet dollars to doughnuts she will text you by..... Sunday night.

She wants you to pursue.... and she will leave hints if she is interested in you. Trust me....

This is the mating ritual in 2015, 1995, and I'm sure it was in 1975.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> Call me when you are free?
> 
> Stop putting the ball in her court.
> 
> How about: Have fun!
> 
> Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Unbe, it is clear as day that you are seeking validation from the women you are dating. Where my concern lies is if this insecurity is cause or effect... Were you insecure prior to this marriage?
> 
> Speaking from experience on this one; the weight of your insecurity on someone else shoulders is heavy. It causes them to avoid you.
> 
> You need to take a close look at why you don't truly love and believe in yourself. When you do, you don't need to be fed ego kibbles anymore.
> 
> Find your worth, Unbe.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I was insecure prior to the marriage, still am obv. I am finding my self worth but its coming slowly and I feel casualties will be made long the way. It wasn't a thought out response and I knew it plus I was a little buzzed when sending it :scratchhead:

I feel my only play now is to cut off communication and take a wait and see approach until Monday. Then, send a text out trying to set something up for Thursday.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> "Call me when you are free" ............ what did we tell you.... what.... a week ago?
> 
> After the Sunday thing........ "Okay.... have a great time! I'll get back with you later in the week."
> 
> Look.... if she likes you... I bet dollars to doughnuts she will text you by..... Sunday night.
> 
> She wants you to pursue.... and she will leave hints if she is interested in you. Trust me....
> 
> This is the mating ritual in 2015, 1995, and I'm sure it was in 1975.


Chuck, I have no doubt that she likes me. She was very forthcoming during our date. Was making multiple advances, extremely flirty and even said she was attracted to me. I will sit back and see how it plays out....

Thats the last time I mutter that phrase! (call me when your free)


----------



## Marc878

Confidence is attractive. Read up

Also you may have this but a definite read for your future.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=6WznXSjLCtbILCCCiPF9O0rrhPc-


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> I was insecure prior to the marriage, still am obv. I am finding my self worth but its coming slowly and I feel casualties will be made long the way. It wasn't a thought out response and I knew it plus I was a little buzzed when sending it :scratchhead:
> 
> I feel my only play now is to cut off communication and take a wait and see approach until Monday. Then, send a text out trying to set something up for Thursday.


Still focusing on the paint while the foundation is crumbling.

Unbe, what are you really running from? What is so painful inside of you that you can't be still with yourself?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

There was a guy AFPhoenix... he started here when you did back in early '14. Conrad spoke to him too till

the banhammer got him. AFP was approaching dates just like you are... he had a gal, BOFA.

Anyway.... Conrad told him "Stop worrying Francis... be a man.... take the lead."

I followed this with an example of when UG (this was spring '14) had a 1/2 day off. I told her to dress

casual and nothing else. I packed a PB n J picnic and chips. UG had no clue what or where we were going.

I took her on a scenic drive through the mountains. She loved it!

To her.... I took the initiative to plan things.

To me... if I had let her choose, we'd be at the mall and I'd have a "please shoot me" look on my face.

Unbe.... if a gal really likes you.... they WILL let you know


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> Still focusing on the paint while the foundation is crumbling.
> 
> Unbe, what are you really running from? What is so painful inside of you that you can't be still with yourself?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Ok...let me put it all on the table. I have a fear of being alone. I do not lack self confidence in the way I look or the way that I choose to treat people. I do go over the top but I have always been that way and I honestly don't see it as a flaw, its how I am. I like to do nice things and I like to have people to do them with and share that experience with. This however does send a message of desperation and I can see that (this is what im working on currently)

I was born into a loveless household. There was no family unit, just 5 roommates that had dinner together. I have done everything I can to try and create the opposite of this in my life as an adult. 0-2 so far...

This isnt about Wood, Monto, MB....they are/were just actors in the play. They can and will be cycled out and new actors brought in.

The play starts off great...but gets old real quick. Sometimes the first act lasts a little longer but eventually the second act comes and the play falls apart.

It isn't so much validation from women that im seeking, its validation in GENERAL that I look for. Friends, women, bosses, pastor!

I have read every thread on here and seen progression. I have experience some progression myself (only to fall back into cd). 

I don't want to feel like this. I'm basically the best first date guy ever...but for some reason cant sustain it. 

Chuck eluded to this earlier, this approach does work on some women. However, I do not want to attract those women anymore. Monto isnt one of them...she is very happy with herself, being alone, doesnt need anyone to validate her. So far, I am still first date guy and have played it perfectly. I do not want the old UNBE to surface here. Id like to give this and future relationships and chance to be healthy....Not me just scrambling to keep up an image that is impossible for me to maintain in my current state.


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Ok...let me put it all on the table. I have a fear of being alone. I do not lack self confidence in the way I look or the way that I choose to treat people. I do go over the top but I have always been that way and I honestly don't see it as a flaw, its how I am. I like to do nice things and I like to have people to do them with and share that experience with. This however does send a message of desperation and I can see that (this is what im working on currently)
> 
> I was born into a loveless household. There was no family unit, just 5 roommates that had dinner together. I have done everything I can to try and create the opposite of this in my life as an adult. 0-2 so far...
> 
> This isnt about Wood, Monto, MB....they are/were just actors in the play. They can and will be cycled out and new actors brought in.
> 
> The play starts off great...but gets old real quick. Sometimes the first act lasts a little longer but eventually the second act comes and the play falls apart.
> 
> It isn't so much validation from women that im seeking, its validation in GENERAL that I look for. Friends, women, bosses, pastor!
> 
> I have read every thread on here and seen progression. I have experience some progression myself (only to fall back into cd).
> 
> I don't want to feel like this. I'm basically the best first date guy ever...but for some reason cant sustain it.
> 
> Chuck eluded to this earlier, this approach does work on some women. However, I do not want to attract those women anymore. Monto isnt one of them...she is very happy with herself, being alone, doesnt need anyone to validate her. So far, I am still first date guy and have played it perfectly. I do not want the old UNBE to surface here. Id like to give this and future relationships and chance to be healthy....Not me just scrambling to keep up an image that is impossible for me to maintain in my current state.


How is that working for you?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Ok...let me put it all on the table. I have a fear of being alone. I do not lack self confidence in the way I look or the way that I choose to treat people. I do go over the top but I have always been that way and I honestly don't see it as a flaw, its how I am. I like to do nice things and I like to have people to do them with and share that experience with. This however does send a message of desperation and I can see that (this is what im working on currently)
> 
> 
> 
> I was born into a loveless household. There was no family unit, just 5 roommates that had dinner together. I have done everything I can to try and create the opposite of this in my life as an adult. 0-2 so far...
> 
> 
> 
> This isnt about Wood, Monto, MB....they are/were just actors in the play. They can and will be cycled out and new actors brought in.
> 
> 
> 
> The play starts off great...but gets old real quick. Sometimes the first act lasts a little longer but eventually the second act comes and the play falls apart.
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't so much validation from women that im seeking, its validation in GENERAL that I look for. Friends, women, bosses, pastor!
> 
> 
> 
> I have read every thread on here and seen progression. I have experience some progression myself (only to fall back into cd).
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to feel like this. I'm basically the best first date guy ever...but for some reason cant sustain it.
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck eluded to this earlier, this approach does work on some women. However, I do not want to attract those women anymore. Monto isnt one of them...she is very happy with herself, being alone, doesnt need anyone to validate her. So far, I am still first date guy and have played it perfectly. I do not want the old UNBE to surface here. Id like to give this and future relationships and chance to be healthy....Not me just scrambling to keep up an image that is impossible for me to maintain in my current state.



I need $100 per hour to continue following this thread. 

Just kidding Unbe, this is a pretty insightful post. 

IMHO, you should not be dating yet. 

If I were you I would proceed in the same order as your post. 

Starting with learning how to be happy alone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

Unbe..... I partially can agree. I NEVER had lived alone in my life. I commuted to college.... preferred

free rent, working, strong $ base. Plus no cafeteria could match mom's cooking. Minus crashing at 

friend's house after college, I still "lived at home" because that's where all my schit was. Then I met WC....

was with her until late 2012. UG wasn't moved in in spring '13 but she stayed over many a night.

Technically... I did not live alone. After Fall '14.... I have lived alone. It's different. It took getting

used to. There's something nice about seeing a female's car in the driveway when you come home from 

work.... I can't deny that. 

There is so much more room now, no clutter, no pink "ladies choice" razors, no curling iron, no frilly schit.

It's a guy's bathroom. I can watch a baseball game from the West Coast until 1AM.... crank Floyd, drink

beer, Coke from a two-liter, sort cards on the bed, take up the whole bed, eat a pizza in my underwear

on the back deck. But ya know...... it's not something I plan to do forever. Yes I would like to meet someone

and see it go LT. But I'm in no hurry. I have met four females since late '14 that danced around being 

"potential," but it was, to me, only short term. Another "18 month bandage job" .... don't want that.

If I was 28... who knows. I know what I don't want. AKA not settling.... if it takes another year or so....

so be it. I'll enjoy my "man home" until then.

So I get the fear of being alone. It's a fear until you conquer it as Yoda says. Trust me... there are many perks

to having just overnight guests compared to live-ins. I'm sure there are females reading your posts that can say

the same thing about them living without a guy there. When you get used to being alone, you learn

about who you really are. Even some of your bad habits that maybe no one ever griped about.

I do have one non-negotiable.... I will never change bed sheets. Hmmmm... maybe that's why I do like 

overnight guests..... LOL


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> How is that working for you?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


0-2


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> I need $100 per hour to continue following this thread.
> 
> Just kidding Unbe, this is a pretty insightful post.
> 
> IMHO, you should not be dating yet.
> 
> If I were you I would proceed in the same order as your post.
> 
> Starting with learning how to be happy alone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While I agree its too early there is one benefit that far outweighs any negatives at this time in my life. Dating has put blinders on me to drive the D home with MB and get her out of my life for good. If nothing else comes from dating, at least it will close the chapter on MB.


----------



## farsidejunky

Unbe, you are right in the middle of repeating your mistakes.

Ceegee is right in that you need to be okay alone. The way you are doing it now is basing your life on someone else. You don't seem to see a problem with it, but the person on the receiving end does.

This leads to one of two things happening. If the person is emotionally healthy, they will dump you or just sort of drift away.

If they are emotionally unhealthy, they will welcome the intrusion...for a while. Then they will do any number of things that we see on TAM daily, such as infidelity, etc.

If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## unbe

Ceegee said:


> I need $100 per hour to continue following this thread.
> 
> Just kidding Unbe, this is a pretty insightful post.
> 
> IMHO, you should not be dating yet.
> 
> If I were you I would proceed in the same order as your post.
> 
> Starting with learning how to be happy alone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dude id pay you but dating is expensive lol (still cheaper that MB's habits lol)


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> Unbe, you are right in the middle of repeating your mistakes.
> 
> Ceegee is right in that you need to be okay alone. The way you are doing it now is basing your life on someone else. You don't seem to see a problem with it, but the person on the receiving end does.
> 
> This leads to one of two things happening. If the person is emotionally healthy, they will dump you or just sort of drift away.
> 
> If they are emotionally unhealthy, they will welcome the intrusion...for a while. Then they will do any number of things that we see on TAM daily, such as infidelity, etc.
> 
> If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I do not disagree with you. I just dont know how to get to this point ....


----------



## Chuck71

If you date to avoid the pain.... when you stop dating, the pain will still be there.

I was 99% over WC when I started dating.... yes it was before the D final. Like I said... I hang on maybe 

longer than most would.... but when I say it's done..... it's done.

I may take a few more "hits to the gut" but as far as being over the other person.... I'm kinda the first to be there.


----------



## farsidejunky

You must learn to love and find happiness in yourself first. Sometimes that requires seeing the world is larger than your problems.

Unbe, what have you done in the last year that could be considered charitable? Examples would be delivering food to a needy family, feeding homeless at a shelter, helping Habitat For Humanity improve a home, etc.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> You must learn to love and find happiness in yourself first. Sometimes that requires seeing the world is larger than your problems.
> 
> Unbe, what have you done in the last year that could be considered charitable? Examples would be delivering food to a needy family, feeding homeless at a shelter, helping Habitat For Humanity improve a home, etc.


Other than donate money to the church, nothing. I see where you are going with this...


----------



## Chuck71

The focusing on #1s AND #2s.......


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Other than donate money to the church, nothing. I see where you are going with this...


You have problems. Just like ALL OF US.

But you are marinating in those problems, while doing nothing to fix them, for two reasons.

1. They appear too large or too daunting to fix
2. You accepted the illusion that they are larger than they are

Don't just tithe. Serve. Be the hands and feet.

Go to a soup kitchen after service tomorrow, and tell me your problems are large in the grand scheme of things.


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## Chuck71

I went visiting with a church group.... I was a peer tutor to the younger teens (scary huh LOL) but

I was still a teen, 18. Met a girl.... liked her.... she was seeing someone. But she had a friend......

Well... long story short, it was 2nd love. Three solid year, two off n on.... not bad


----------



## ReturntoZero

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence.html


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> I do not disagree with you. I just dont know how to get to this point ....


That's easy. 

STOP DATING.


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> Other than donate money to the church, nothing. I see where you are going with this...


Volunteering is THE first thing I recommend to spouses losing their partner. Even above exercise. Why? Because you have to shove in time in your head about OTHER PEOPLE (or animals, or trees...), amidst all your inner chatter about you, her, other women, your worth...all that crap.

Plus, volunteering makes you FEEL GOOD.

And it lets you ACCOMPLISH something. 

And IME, the #1 way to feel good about yourself - is to accomplish something.

That's why boot camps work for teenagers. Most of them have spent NO time building anything, fixing anything, helping anyone, or taking orders from anyone. As soon as they get into a situation where they have to respect another's authority, where they see they DO have skills, they CAN help someone else...they feel a little bit better about themselves.

Find some place to volunteer at. I go to a place that fixes up the exterior of poor people's houses - double bonus: I help them and I help the city become just a little bit more viable, raise house values, bring in more investment...


----------



## unbe

And just went you thought it was safe to get back into the water....


MB: "hey not sure if you blocked my number but I need to talk to you"

Any response?


----------



## farsidejunky

"Anything you need to communicate can be done by text"


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## Chuck71

MB? if so..... NO CONTACT

let her figure it out


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## turnera

Any discussion that is NOT aimed toward manipulating you can be done via text.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> And just went you thought it was safe to get back into the water....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MB: "hey not sure if you blocked my number but I need to talk to you"
> 
> 
> 
> Any response?



Ignore. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## unbe

Update:

Unbe: I did not block you
MB: I had a seizure and need to talk to you.
Unbe: I will meet you for coffee to discuss what you need to discuss.

Ok, I know where this is leading which is why I agreed to meet. I also am feeling really good and was ready to face vader. It was time...

So we meet.

I pick her up at her moms, we grab a cup of coffee. Var in pocket.

I ask her how she has been, showing nothing but confidence. She says she's been ok but her lack of sleep due to her commute caused her to have a seizure. My response, well how has things bee otherwise? She says good (with tears in her eyes)

She then starts to ask for an amicable divorce. Why she doesn't udnerstNd why we can't just sit down and have HER lawyer (who she is sleeping with) represent both of us. It would ave such much money, blah blah blah.

My response: we are past that point. We no longer have an uncontested divorce. I'm not ok with you lawyer representing me in a mediation. My answer is no.

Needless to say she's shocked.

Her next statement " well I know you don't want this"

I stop her right ther and say. " what makes you think I don't want this? This marriage has been a sham since the beginning and its poisonous, it needs to die."

I then ask her, what is it do you really want?

Her comment "I was hoping to move home, the commute is killing me"

Unbe: I never asked you to move out. That was your choice, now you live with the consequences. 

MB starts to try and rewrite history, blame shift. I squash it immediately and put it back into reality. 

I ask if we are done, did she want to say anything else. 

MB: My therapist says you are manipulative. 

Unbe: thank you for that feedback. I won't say my therapist said about you.

MB: I am not good for you, someone else wil make you much happier

Unbe: I know.

We start to head back, she starts telling me that the reason she was leaving was she didn't feel financially secure with me and she needs that. (The last time she threatened to leave was right after I got laid off and took another job making less)

Unbe: the reason you left the last two times was because you were cheating on me. 

Mb: denial

Unbe: I saw emails form xxx during this time, I saw text from Yyyy during this time. I am sure the only reason we got back was because they both ended. 

Mb: that doesn't mean I was cheating. 

Unbe: even if you never slept with them which I'm sure you did. That is still cheating!

Mb: do you thing that's why I left now?

Unbe: it doesn't matter any more

We head back and get to her house

Mb: i wish you the best. I'm sorry

Unbe: everything happens for a reason. The only thing to be sorry about would be not learning from this.

We hug, she goes in the house.

Unbe: I would have taken care of you till the day you die.

Mb: I know you would have

summary:

I feel I handled this meeting well...

I feel I failed by meeting her...

I got the closure I needed. MB will never be in my life again!


----------



## farsidejunky

I grade it an A-.

That means well done with just a couple of criticisms... But hell, that is playing Monday Morning Quarterback.

You did well. You mostly did not engage in her madness, you stated your points. You stuck mostly to the script. The only criticism I have was at the end bickering over her affairs and the spot about taking care of her.

And Unbe? 

You are free. Let that sink in.

Good job, brother.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## synthetic

A- in my book too. Really a B+ but hey, I'm feeling generous!

- No need to bring up cheating
- No need to claim you'd take care of her forever (what does that even mean dude?)
- No need to meet in the first place

Other than that, I guess you told her what you could have easily told her in an email, but I know how it feels to want to meet. I've done it myself and regretted it after.

The truth is, the less she knows about you, the more empowered you will feel. No one really knows why that is the case, but it applies to all humans.

Go completely dark on her. She's not your friend. She lost that status a long time ago.


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## ThreeStrikes

All future communication with her should be email or text only. And download an app that auto-saves them to the cloud. Mine saves them to my Google account. Its great.

I'm not going to grade you. As long as you got the sense of closure you need, then that works.

I'd like to see the focus shift to you. Not your dates. Not your STBX. You.


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## ReturntoZero

ThreeStrikes said:


> All future communication with her should be email or text only. And download an app that auto-saves them to the cloud. Mine saves them to my Google account. Its great.
> 
> I'm not going to grade you. As long as you got the sense of closure you need, then that works.
> 
> I'd like to see the focus shift to you. Not your dates. Not your STBX. You.


I could pick it apart in spots. But, overall, it was what you wanted and apparently needed to do. Damn, she's ridiculous. Blaming the commute SHE chose to have on her health problems and expecting you (the guy she's cheating on) to upend your life to fix it.

Typical Matchbox. Typical cheater.

Look unbe, no more of this stuff. All business. After all this time, she's still the same and sees no reason to change if she still thinks she can get what she wants with the old ways.

As the divorce comes into focus, she'll have many chances to reflect, but she'll likely not take them.

My story is now classified as a "success" story. The amount of pure hell involved in it boggles my mind, as I'd have no desire to repeat anything similar, But, as ReGroup and I discussed so long ago, my wife and I are attracted to each other and always have been.

We've largely found that is the key to stories that end like mine and stories that end like yours boils down to the "reason" the woman married you in the first place.

Matchbox sees men as security blankets. If you hit the lottery, she'll be back in a heartbeat. Is that what you want?


----------



## ReturntoZero

For you see, your brothers here are worried about you.

Wanting "someone to be with you" is a formula for Matchbox II.


----------



## Chuck71

The last two times she run her bottom lip out and batted dem eyelashes.... what happened? Compare to now.

I call it progress. Can't add anything, they pretty much covered everything.

The I'll take care of you till you die.... I am playing Ozzys Revelation / Mother Earth while I type...

I have a vision.... last night would usually get you back under her spell.... two years ago.... you posted how

she did, clockwork. MB will be attracted to this, you never stood your turf like this before.

Her reaches are far from done.... bet MY farm. Yet this is the third time this has happened in two years.

She will never change.... mainly because I don't think she wants to.

Now.... Unbe, if you were not dating anyone..... how would you have reacted to her actions last night?

As with ReGroup... there are many lessons you should learn this time around. For your future.....


----------



## ReturntoZero

Sadly, since you agreed to meet and listen with her, this little tempest is not over.

She will now be blaming you for anything and everything associated with her commute (health problems, money issues, mechanical breakdowns, etc.) because YOU could have "fixed it".

Being disordered is never having to be responsible for your own choices.

Chuck's last question is a good one. Please search yourself and answer it.


----------



## Chuck71

A few other things to ponder.... I get you are dating, 110% get that. If you are set on returning to FL before

or just after the D.... you seem to be placing a great deal of importance on dating. Just me..... but if I 

had intentions of relocating to Ft. Myers within a year, I would not be dating seriously. Would I date just to 

pi$$ my STBXW off.... probably.... I'm a sociopath when you cut me.

Also.... Unbe... what if you met Matchbox II in NY before you moved? There are, I think, more women out there

who are seeking a needy / clingy man.... as they are too.... needy / clingy.

Guess how 95% of those LTRs end up...


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Well, a quality woman likely won't date a guy who is still married. So Unbe's dates are basically practice, I suppose.

But does he trust himself enough to not get attached? 

Hopefully MatchBox replaces Unbe's role, soon. Best thing that could happen to him. 

For that to happen, he's going to have to go 100% no contact. He's got a lawyer. Let the lawyer work.

100% detachment and no contact. 

Stay on the path

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...wYCrNaFjNRumdMlVg&sig2=n-PKmYPCzkoLbjK8SKWlFw


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe..... here is a post I made in a LaD thread dealing with dating women when guy is 40+.



Geography always plays a pivotal role. After my break-up with post-D gf in late 2014, I dated a lot. A great deal of first contact to me were females exactly my age to early 50s. 42-51. They usually fell into four categories.... unresolved issues, never wanting to get serious again, utterly bitter, and healthy.

Unresolved issues... usually trust. I don't work well with these. If they have unresolved conflicts from previous relationships, I want no part of it. They should work on themselves THEN start dating. These show their red flags quickly... if you are not paying attention, they vagina bomb you and within six months, they want M. They want M first so they can finally unlock that closet full of her skeletons and hope you are a KISA / Mr. Fixer. Once you see these flags early on.... RUN. My last post in LaD Crossroads II gives a perfect example of one.

Never wanting to be serious... now if the woman has kids, most grown or in HS.... near fresh out of a M, I can see why she wouldn't. These want 2-3 nights a week and nothing more. No "where were you on nights you were not with her." Perfectooooo ..... wait about six weeks. Women must have that emotional connection. Maybe not at first, maybe it was just wild kinky sex. Then she wants a LTR, not M mind you, just LTR. Then.... they mix into the unresolved issues and bitterness. Well guys... this comes with most R. Guys..... if you don't want anything more than LTR or hot sex FWB.... this may be worth a try. LT for me.... no, I want kids.

The bitter ones.... fortunately these are spotted easily. Not a day goes by without her going on a tirade about her XH. You can have great sex and be laying in bed, "John never would finish.... he would get his jollies and roll over. He never held me after sex, he would get up and go to the den and watch ESPN or MLB." For some reason guys... you see why John did. These keep scorecards.... "You did more for me in the last month than John did the last three years." But..... when they drink and get nostalgic.... all those great memories she had with John. These are worse than the unresolved issues ones... at least the unresolved can maybe, get past things. These can't and truth be told.... don't want to.

Now the healthy ones... they're hard to find. They worked on themselves and freely admit they played a part in the crumbling of their M. They co-parent healthy and the kid's dad is happy his XW has met someone or at least, does not stir schit. But... this is from a guy's POV dating women. I am fully aware women dating D men has it's own challenges. Most of these are very approachable in terms of talking to. They understand, in my case, I would like to have children. They harbor no ill-will and will say up front.... if you can't see anything down the road because I am too old to have children, I'd love to date you but it can only go so far and.... I want more. Or they still want to date you.... granted both know going forward the other's wants.

From my early 20s to my mid-20s... I dated women in their 30s and even early 40s. I loved the maturity, no drama, no games, no BS. I had a blast! It did stop when I met my future XW.... I was 25, she was 32.

I see an astounding difference in say.... women 10-15 years older than I, circa 1996 and women 10-15 years younger than me today. Their values were so different, growing up in the late 60s, the 70s. Young adulthood in the early 80s.

Today... I feel like I am "dating the children of the women I used to date."


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> A- in my book too. Really a B+ but hey, I'm feeling generous!
> 
> - No need to bring up cheating
> - No need to claim you'd take care of her forever (what does that even mean dude?)
> - No need to meet in the first place
> 
> Other than that, I guess you told her what you could have easily told her in an email, but I know how it feels to want to meet. I've done it myself and regretted it after.
> 
> The truth is, the less she knows about you, the more empowered you will feel. No one really knows why that is the case, but it applies to all humans.
> 
> Go completely dark on her. She's not your friend. She lost that status a long time ago.


At the end of the night I really felt I had to get the cheating off my chest, its been buried for to long in fear of me losing her. Now that that fears gone, it was time to be said IMO.

There is no more reason for me to communicate with her. I know she is not my friend nor am I hers. Its in the lawyers hands now. 

Ive never slept as good as I slept last night!


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> I could pick it apart in spots. But, overall, it was what you wanted and apparently needed to do. Damn, she's ridiculous. Blaming the commute SHE chose to have on her health problems and expecting you (the guy she's cheating on) to upend your life to fix it.
> 
> Typical Matchbox. Typical cheater.
> 
> Look unbe, no more of this stuff. All business. After all this time, she's still the same and sees no reason to change if she still thinks she can get what she wants with the old ways.
> 
> As the divorce comes into focus, she'll have many chances to reflect, but she'll likely not take them.
> 
> My story is now classified as a "success" story. The amount of pure hell involved in it boggles my mind, as I'd have no desire to repeat anything similar, But, as ReGroup and I discussed so long ago, my wife and I are attracted to each other and always have been.
> 
> We've largely found that is the key to stories that end like mine and stories that end like yours boils down to the "reason" the woman married you in the first place.
> 
> Matchbox sees men as security blankets. If you hit the lottery, she'll be back in a heartbeat. Is that what you want?



Rtz,

I see this as clear as day now. Once I lost my great paying job and had to take something less, the safe guy disappeared and MB started to look for another landing spot. 

When I saw her I felt no attraction what so ever. My main feeling was pity (95%) followed by anger (5%).

I needed to close this out. Last night accomplished that for me. 

It was ALL about me last night. She may have tried to make it about her, I wouldn't allow it.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> The last two times she run her bottom lip out and batted dem eyelashes.... what happened? Compare to now.
> 
> I call it progress. Can't add anything, they pretty much covered everything.
> 
> The I'll take care of you till you die.... I am playing Ozzys Revelation / Mother Earth while I type...
> 
> I have a vision.... last night would usually get you back under her spell.... two years ago.... you posted how
> 
> she did, clockwork. MB will be attracted to this, you never stood your turf like this before.
> 
> Her reaches are far from done.... bet MY farm. Yet this is the third time this has happened in two years.
> 
> She will never change.... mainly because I don't think she wants to.
> 
> Now.... Unbe, if you were not dating anyone..... how would you have reacted to her actions last night?
> 
> As with ReGroup... there are many lessons you should learn this time around. For your future.....


Chuck,

I am aware that last night will bring along a full court press from MB. She has never seen unbe in that light.

Im not going to lie, the comment that I made about taking care of her was an attempted twist of the knife and now see should have been avoided. That was selfish of me and the only part of the night I wish didn't happen.

To be brutally honest, if I wasn't dating other people I wouldn't have met up with her. Like I said before, it may be too soon to date. However, if what I get out of this is the strength to keep driving this D home then that is enough for me. The fact that I do have other women interested gave me the extra bit of confidence and courage to close MB out for good. I know this line of thinking is flawed, but this is where I am right now in my rediscovery.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Sadly, since you agreed to meet and listen with her, this little tempest is not over.
> 
> She will now be blaming you for anything and everything associated with her commute (health problems, money issues, mechanical breakdowns, etc.) because YOU could have "fixed it".
> 
> Being disordered is never having to be responsible for your own choices.
> 
> Chuck's last question is a good one. Please search yourself and answer it.


Agreed. I continuously attempted to drive home the fact that her issues are a direct result of her actions and hers alone. I am not here to save, help nor provide advice in any way. My job is done with her. 

Now did she hear it is another story...


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> A few other things to ponder.... I get you are dating, 110% get that. If you are set on returning to FL before
> 
> or just after the D.... you seem to be placing a great deal of importance on dating. Just me..... but if I
> 
> had intentions of relocating to Ft. Myers within a year, I would not be dating seriously. Would I date just to
> 
> pi$$ my STBXW off.... probably.... I'm a sociopath when you cut me.
> 
> Also.... Unbe... what if you met Matchbox II in NY before you moved? There are, I think, more women out there
> 
> who are seeking a needy / clingy man.... as they are too.... needy / clingy.
> 
> Guess how 95% of those LTRs end up...


Chuck,

FLA fell through about a month ago. Ill be here in NY for a while....IF i was considering leaving I would not be dating


----------



## unbe

Oh forgot to say, she stated at the end that she wants to be friends after all this is over.

I respectfully declined....


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Agreed. I continuously attempted to drive home the fact that her issues are a direct result of her actions and hers alone. I am not here to save, help nor provide advice in any way. My job is done with her.
> 
> Now did she hear it is another story...


And also NOT YOUR CONCERN.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Chuck,
> 
> I am aware that last night will bring along a full court press from MB. She has never seen unbe in that light.
> 
> Im not going to lie, the comment that I made about taking care of her was an attempted twist of the knife and now see should have been avoided. That was selfish of me and the only part of the night I wish didn't happen.
> 
> To be brutally honest, if I wasn't dating other people I wouldn't have met up with her. Like I said before, it may be too soon to date. However, if what I get out of this is the strength to keep driving this D home then that is enough for me. The fact that I do have other women interested gave me the extra bit of confidence and courage to close MB out for good. I know this line of thinking is flawed, but this is where I am right now in my rediscovery.


Here's a compromise - and it's what I did.

I would ask women out on dates. I would explain I was separated and NOT looking for sex. I was looking for entertaining conversation, good food, and a good time.

I had several chats that lasted until the sun came up. Several long motorcycle rides to wineries all over my home state. Many delicious dinners and heard some great music.

I always felt better afterwards.

The funny thing is, if I had to do it over again, I'd likely stay home and work on my interests. Either way is ok. I could have avoided some unpleasantness had I not been "as social" as I was.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Chuck,
> 
> 
> 
> FLA fell through about a month ago. Ill be here in NY for a while....IF i was considering leaving I would not be dating



So you're dating for long term?

You're looking to replace MB. As you said, just replacing characters. 

You're going to get same results. 

Why put yourself and the women through this?


----------



## unbe

TO be clear:

I have been upfront with all of the women I met and my intentions. Sex isnt even on the radar at the moment. Just good company....

I am not dating to find a LTR. I am dating to have fun

However, I am not apposed to getting into something thats feels right.

With that said, I wouldn't have even bothered to date if I was leaving next month.


----------



## Ceegee

Ok, I'll be clear. 

I really don't care what you do. You're a grown man. The women you meet are grown women. Each of you are responsible for yourselves. 

The problem I see is that your actions don't jive with your words. 

Your backstory is affecting your game. 

Btw, this is 2016. Sex is always on the radar. 

Ponder this for a moment. Many of the women you meet OLDing are just wanting sex. 

Crazy as it may seem sex is always on the radar when men and women meet. 

So what. 

Also, how sure are you that "what feels right" is right for you? 

I think you should question what feels right given your past. 

Question everything and look at things in a new light. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> TO be clear:
> 
> I have been upfront with all of the women I met and my intentions. Sex isnt even on the radar at the moment. Just good company....
> 
> I am not dating to find a LTR. I am dating to have fun
> 
> However, I am not apposed to getting into something thats feels right.
> 
> With that said, I wouldn't have even bothered to date if I was leaving next month.


Are you feeling defensive? Hit the pause button before you answer.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Are you feeling defensive? Hit the pause button before you answer.


Yes, I am feeling that way


----------



## unbe

Update:

Things are calming down in my life. The conversation on Saturday was exactly when I needed to close out MB and get 100% apathetic towards the D. All business from here on out and I am shrewd when it comes to business.

Monto- 50k view, I am working to hard at this without much reciprocation. Time to turn the tables to see where it takes me. I had tried to set plans with her for Tuesday, she had told me she really doesn't do things during the week due to her work schedule (teacher) but wanted to keep it tentative. Going to cancel these tentative plans and resc for the weekend. Once that's worked out, going dark to see if she starts to initiate some sort of interest. Its wayyyy to much chasing going on right now by me.


----------



## Chuck71

If you are scheduled to get half equity in the house (how long lived there?).... roughly how much

will that be?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> If you are scheduled to get half equity in the house (how long lived there?).... roughly how much
> 
> will that be?


The agreement is we are to split any equity in the home. It should be close to 80k which we would split


----------



## Chuck71

She may change her mind on that...... since you aren't under her spell


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Ok, I'll be clear.
> 
> I really don't care what you do. You're a grown man. The women you meet are grown women. Each of you are responsible for yourselves.
> 
> The problem I see is that your actions don't jive with your words.
> 
> Your backstory is affecting your game.
> 
> Btw, this is 2016. Sex is always on the radar.
> 
> Ponder this for a moment. Many of the women you meet OLDing are just wanting sex.
> 
> Crazy as it may seem sex is always on the radar when men and women meet.
> 
> So what.
> 
> Also, how sure are you that "what feels right" is right for you?
> 
> I think you should question what feels right given your past.
> 
> Question everything and look at things in a new light.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cee,

Powerful stuff here. Your questioning of what feels right is spot on. Maybe I should be handling this like that episode of Seinfeld and go against all my instincts.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Cee,
> 
> Powerful stuff here. Your questioning of what feels right is spot on. Maybe I should be handling this like that episode of Seinfeld and go against all my instincts.


I wouldn't suggest going against your instincts.

Nor would I suggest you do the opposite of everything you were taught growing up. Maybe I took that too literally.

I'm only suggesting you slow down a little bit and question things a little bit.

Conrad used to always tell me to "be still". 

You know the "get to 50k feet".

It's all about awareness.


----------



## Chuck71

People like MB.... can't stand still. They grew up in chaos and..... that's all they know.

That is why she wants your life to be in a spin cycle too. In the past... you let it.

Lil story.... pop had a friend, mean as he!! but you had to cross him to see that side. He met a woman, D..... three kids.

They were dirt poor and I mean dirt. They M.... gave her n kids a nice home, not fancy but nice.

Granted.... pop said she was a good woman but couldn't take care of anything. New carpet.... badly 

stained within three months, would go through vacuum cleaners every year, new couch torn within six months.

She never had anything to "keep up" and..... her kids were just as bad.

The kids were good kids..... she was a good mom / W .... but she wasn't taught.

Neither has MB. Neither has MBs mother. I'd bet MBs grandmother fit right in that mold.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> I wouldn't suggest going against your instincts.
> 
> Nor would I suggest you do the opposite of everything you were taught growing up. Maybe I took that too literally.
> 
> I'm only suggesting you slow down a little bit and question things a little bit.
> 
> Conrad used to always tell me to "be still".
> 
> You know the "get to 50k feet".
> 
> It's all about awareness.


Think im starting to get there...

Monto- 50k view, I am working to hard at this without much reciprocation. Time to turn the tables to see where it takes me. I had tried to set plans with her for Tuesday, she had told me she really doesn't do things during the week due to her work schedule (teacher) but wanted to keep it tentative. Going to cancel these tentative plans and resc for the weekend. Once that's worked out, going dark to see if she starts to initiate some sort of interest. Its wayyyy to much chasing going on right now by me.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> People like MB.... can't stand still. They grew up in chaos and..... that's all they know.
> 
> That is why she wants your life to be in a spin cycle too. In the past... you let it.
> 
> Lil story.... pop had a friend, mean as he!! but you had to cross him to see that side. He met a woman, D..... three kids.
> 
> They were dirt poor and I mean dirt. They M.... gave her n kids a nice home, not fancy but nice.
> 
> Granted.... pop said she was a good woman but couldn't take care of anything. New carpet.... badly
> 
> stained within three months, would go through vacuum cleaners every year, new couch torn within six months.
> 
> She never had anything to "keep up" and..... her kids were just as bad.
> 
> The kids were good kids..... she was a good mom / W .... but she wasn't taught.
> 
> Neither has MB. Neither has MBs mother. I'd bet MBs grandmother fit right in that mold.


Chuck,

You hit it. MB childhood was a travesty. Mother treated her like her toy/friend would bring her to bars and have her sit on the side while she partied.

Numerous guys in and out of her life (mom remarried 3 times)

Father is Bi Polar, kidnapped her. Beat her. Very sad

Mb had a great relationship with her Grandmother. She passed before I knew her. Her grandmothers children all hated her. From what I have heard she was a very tough women.


----------



## Chuck71

Pop knew I drank beer with the guys in high school. He knew I was going to so preaching not to... was futile.

He preached "use good judgment," he knew I knew better than drive drunk but he added 'don't get into

a car with a friend who is drunk.' But pop would not allow me to drink beer around him until I was older.

I respected that. I would have to sneak beer in the house. Did he know? Most times, bet he did.

He rarely caught me.... but he could have more if he wanted to.

MB never saw boundaries, she is a sad product of pi$$ poor parenting. It's not her fault.... what is her fault 

is not trying to improve herself. MBs first two b/fs are replicas of who her mom dated. MB knew.... just knew.....

this was not a healthy lifestyle. Along came Unbe. MB thought maybe she could cycle out her childhood

trauma. As we have seen.... she can't. If she is near her mid-30s.... VERY slim chance she will change. 

Old habits die a slow death.... even if they are bad ones. I can't recall whose thread I posted it on.... but

I mentioned disordered people usually destroy at least three generations (maybe I compared it to a D)....

MBs grandmother by your account was a good woman. MBs mom was a basket case. Now you have MB.

Chances are... if MB had a child.... she would do poorly as a mother. That child would grow up in chaos.

That's three generations.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Pop knew I drank beer with the guys in high school. He knew I was going to so preaching not to... was futile.
> 
> He preached "use good judgment," he knew I knew better than drive drunk but he added 'don't get into
> 
> a car with a friend who is drunk.' But pop would not allow me to drink beer around him until I was older.
> 
> I respected that. I would have to sneak beer in the house. Did he know? Most times, bet he did.
> 
> He rarely caught me.... but he could have more if he wanted to.
> 
> MB never saw boundaries, she is a sad product of pi$$ poor parenting. It's not her fault.... what is her fault
> 
> is not trying to improve herself. MBs first two b/fs are replicas of who her mom dated. MB knew.... just knew.....
> 
> this was not a healthy lifestyle. Along came Unbe. MB thought maybe she could cycle out her childhood
> 
> trauma. As we have seen.... she can't. If she is near her mid-30s.... VERY slim chance she will change.
> 
> Old habits die a slow death.... even if they are bad ones. I can't recall whose thread I posted it on.... but
> 
> I mentioned disordered people usually destroy at least three generations (maybe I compared it to a D)....
> 
> MBs grandmother by your account was a good woman. MBs mom was a basket case. Now you have MB.
> 
> Chances are... if MB had a child.... she would do poorly as a mother. That child would grow up in chaos.
> 
> That's three generations.


Heres the problem Chuck, MB doesn't feel anything IS wrong with her therefore she will not change. She is 32

Her Mom will never tell her although she sees it. She is deathly afraid of MB

Her step dad sees it but is afraid to say anything. He is afraid of STBXMIL


----------



## unbe

Monto update:

Monto: Hope your having a good day 

Unbe: Hey, crazy day today. Its typically very busy at the end of the month. Hope your day is going well. I was thinking lets reschedule tomorrow. I don't want you to stress about rearranging your schedule (she expressed how she normally didnt go out during the week due to work) so lets shoot for the weekends. 

Monto: Hmm. Tuesday may actually be better. This weekend is turning out to be kinda busy

Unbe: Ok. Tuesday I can meet up after 8:30. Also, im off Thursday so if you wanted to hook up earlier that day may be better. 



50k view...Im plan B


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Heres the problem Chuck, MB doesn't feel anything IS wrong with her therefore she will not change.
> *They never do*
> 
> She is 32
> 
> Her Mom will never tell her although she sees it. She is deathly afraid of MB
> 
> 
> 
> Her step dad sees it but is afraid to say anything. He is afraid of STBXMIL


MB is re-living her mom's life. Maybe her mom knows it is a tortured life. Doesn't mean she will do anything about it.

The step dad...... you were expected to follow in his footsteps


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> MB is re-living her mom's life. Maybe her mom knows it is a tortured life. Doesn't mean she will do anything about it.
> 
> The step dad...... you were expected to follow in his footsteps


hes more spineless than a jelly fish...even me at my worst I was never that bad!


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> hes more spineless than a jelly fish...ever me at my worst I was never that bad!


By the time you were his age.... yes you would have. MB had you "in training" to take his place


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Think im starting to get there...
> 
> Monto- 50k view, I am working to hard at this without much reciprocation. Time to turn the tables to see where it takes me. I had tried to set plans with her for Tuesday, she had told me she really doesn't do things during the week due to her work schedule (teacher) but wanted to keep it tentative. Going to cancel these tentative plans and resc for the weekend. Once that's worked out, going dark to see if she starts to initiate some sort of interest. Its wayyyy to much chasing going on right now by me.


Why turn the tables at all? Just forget about her.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Chuck71 said:


> MB is re-living her mom's life. Maybe her mom knows it is a tortured life. Doesn't mean she will do anything about it.
> 
> The step dad...... you were expected to follow in his footsteps


The poison gets passed from generation to generation.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Monto update:
> 
> Monto: Hope your having a good day
> 
> Unbe: Hey, crazy day today. Its typically very busy at the end of the month. Hope your day is going well. I was thinking lets reschedule tomorrow. I don't want you to stress about rearranging your schedule (she expressed how she normally didnt go out during the week due to work) so lets shoot for the weekends.
> 
> Monto: Hmm. Tuesday may actually be better. This weekend is turning out to be kinda busy
> 
> Unbe: Ok. Tuesday I can meet up after 8:30. Also, im off Thursday so if you wanted to hook up earlier that day may be better.
> 
> 
> 
> 50k view...Im plan B


Like I've said - forget about her.


----------



## Chuck71

Healthy men are busy men. Asking Tuesday and opening yourself up for Thursday and mentioning 

the weekend as well..... She sees needy.... trust me 

A potential date or a first few dates woman does not merit your open time. Make her earn your time,

just as she expects you to earn her time.

This ain't high school or college..... love at first sight disappears in the adult world


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Healthy men are busy men. Asking Tuesday and opening yourself up for Thursday and mentioning
> 
> the weekend as well..... She sees needy.... trust me
> 
> A potential date or a first few dates woman does not merit your open time. Make her earn your time,
> 
> just as she expects you to earn her time.
> 
> This ain't high school or college..... love at first sight disappears in the adult world


Chuck,

This makes a lot of sense. How do I flip it now?


----------



## Chuck71

You don't..........


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> You don't..........


knew you were going to say that.

Like Rtz said, I just forget her


----------



## Chuck71

I get you want to date.... totally get it. You are just placing WAY too much importance on it.

Turnera can expand on this more than I.... but a healthy woman will not wish to date a man who

has yet to file for D. Clingy / needy / warped / disordered / BSC / disturbed ones..... will welcome you.

Just more chaos.... YAY! I know you would scoff at making the mistake of meeting Matchbox II but......

remember how well she bandaged herself up? They're great at that.... if not, WTF would be interested.

It's like selling a house.... show off the great points and put pictures over the holes in the wall, chairs over 

nasty carpet stains, satellite dishes over poor roofing.

These bandaged people sell themselves just like a realtor tries to sell a house....


----------



## turnera

Dating shouldn't be taking up more than 5% of your effort or time at this stage. You're not even divorced yet, right? My brother refused to date at all while he waited on the divorce, and he had women lining up to date him BECAUSE of that. Morals, not needing a quick fix, ok with himself...attractive stuff.


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> Dating shouldn't be taking up more than 5% of your effort or time at this stage. You're not even divorced yet, right? My brother refused to date at all while he waited on the divorce, and he had women lining up to date him BECAUSE of that. Morals, not needing a quick fix, ok with himself...attractive stuff.


Legally we are not divorced although the paperwork is with the lawyers.

Separated 3 months

Dead marriage for over 18 months


----------



## ThreeStrikes

I started dating 3-4 months after my D was final.

Lived alone for 3 years post D, but maintained a relationship with my SO for 2.5 of those years. We just recently moved in together.

Unbe doesn't have kids to focus on. Not much baggage.

I don't have an issue with him dating, per se. As long as he doesn't get attached, and focus too much attention on it.

I like the idea of casually dating multiple women at this phase. Don't get too hooked on one. Explore different women's personalities. Find out what you like and don't like. (Z should've done this)

But don't forget IC. Don't forget hobbies. Don't forget the gym. Don't forget your bank account. Don't forget your guy friends. Have a life.


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> Legally we are not divorced although the paperwork is with the lawyers.
> 
> Separated 3 months
> 
> Dead marriage for over 18 months


So...married.


----------



## turnera

ThreeStrikes said:


> I started dating 3-4 months after my D was final.
> 
> Lived alone for 3 years post D, but maintained a relationship with my SO for 2.5 of those years. We just recently moved in together.
> 
> Unbe doesn't have kids to focus on. Not much baggage.
> 
> I don't have an issue with him dating, per se. As long as he doesn't get attached, and focus too much attention on it.
> 
> I like the idea of casually dating multiple women at this phase. Don't get too hooked on one. Explore different women's personalities. Find out what you like and don't like. (Z should've done this)
> 
> But don't forget IC. Don't forget hobbies. Don't forget the gym. Don't forget your bank account. Don't forget your guy friends. Have a life.


In some cases, I'd agree with this. But unbe clearly has a bigger need for therapy and self worth work and is WAY too wrapped up in does this girl like me and when should I contact that girl...


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> knew you were going to say that.
> 
> Like Rtz said, I just forget her


Yes you do.

But, what everyone here is attempting to tell you is that you have "finally" stopped your obsessive focus on Matchbox. That's "good".

What have you been posting about lately? Your revelations in therapy? Conversations with your safe man? Insights from your childhood as to why you behave this way with women?

No, this has become "Unbe's Dating Life"

All the focus appears to be on these women.

That won't get you there.


----------



## ReturntoZero

I'll be more blunt (if possible)

What does your day look like tomorrow?

What are you doing for UNBE tomorrow?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

ReturntoZero said:


> No, this has become "Unbe's Dating Life"
> 
> All the focus appears to be on these women.
> 
> That won't get you there.


Agreed. It's becoming a rewrite of Carlton's old thread.

'Let's talk about my dates, so I don't have to talk about me.'

Unbe, tell us how much of an ass you are.

We want to know if there's more to you than the woman you are involved with.

Actually, *we* know there is. But do *you*?


----------



## unbe

All....

I am an IDIOT!!!

After speaking with my safe man (I have two actually) I have come to realize something.

I am repeating my patterns again. Putting to much emphasis on what others think of me in order to have a sense of validation. Dating to find the next MB (which will ultimately happen if I continue this path)

I wasn't dating for fun, I was dating to find the next 'ONE'

It is stopping now....

All I did was replace anguish from MB with anguish in dating. Again, I am an IDIOT!

I am an ASS and its time to wake up. 

I have a feeling these next few days will be the roughest days of my life. Fortunately I have friends, my fellow TAMers and a good IC to help me. Its time to get to work


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> All....
> 
> I am an IDIOT!!!
> 
> After speaking with my safe man (I have two actually) I have come to realize something.
> 
> I am repeating my patterns again. Putting to much emphasis on what others think of me in order to have a sense of validation. Dating to find the next MB (which will ultimately happen if I continue this path)
> 
> I wasn't dating for fun, I was dating to find the next 'ONE'
> 
> It is stopping now....
> 
> All I did was replace anguish from MB with anguish in dating. Again, I am an IDIOT!
> 
> I am an ASS and its time to wake up.
> 
> I have a feeling these next few days will be the roughest days of my life. Fortunately I have friends, my fellow TAMers and a good IC to help me. Its time to get to work


You're not an idiot. 

That kind of thinking is part of your problem.

Where do you think threestrikes and I got our avatars?


----------



## ReturntoZero

Change your avatar Unbe.

The mule twins wish to become the Three Amigos


----------



## unbe

Done...!


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe.......


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe.......


I was working at Pizza hut when that first came out. Use to eat the cheese sticks all the time..YUM


----------



## Chuck71

I used to flip burgers back in the late 80s at a joint. Funny I say joint.... I knew about everyone that 

worked there. We were the metal heads, stoners, heII raisers. The girls were just as bad LOL.

The owner knew we would drink / burn on the job but if it did not impede upon work, he was cool with it.

He was a 70s heII raiser himself. When you were not on the clock... came by the joint (which was often),

your food was 50% off. While you were working, anything was free. Burgers, fries, coke, bow-wows, etc.

If you worked there.... you were never hungry. In fact... everyone there always tipped scales at more

leaving than when they came. Really miss those times.....


----------



## farsidejunky

ReturntoZero said:


> Change your avatar Unbe.
> 
> The mule twins wish to become the Three Amigos


...and amigos forever they'll be.

Now which one of yall shot the invisible swordsman?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Ceegee

farsidejunky said:


> ...and amigos forever they'll be.
> 
> Now which one of yall shot the invisible swordsman?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


How was I supposed to know where he was?


----------



## Tall

unbe said:


> Please do!


Sorry, dropped off for a few days. Work is like that - some periods, I don't have time for much else.

I wasn't even going to respond (since it's been so long), but with Season 1 of Unbe: The (non-)Bachelor starting up, I thought I'd finish up the post I started last week. See in particular points 3 and 4 below.

Now, first of all; I'm not in the US, and in one particular aspect there is a cultural difference: You appear to have a much greater reliance on outside counselling than what I'm used to. There is some MC, and some IC - but mostly this is reserved for more extreme cases, where there is a definite psychological illness at play.

Having said that; I did briefly consider an appointment with a psychologist when this all went down. Other factors at the time made me decide to not go forward with that.

Instead, this is how I dealt with it:

1) On D-day, I reacted as expected. Shock, disbelief, and an utter inability to think straight. The shock was actually spread over 3 days: Day 1, she told me she wanted to leave as she no longer loved me. Cue the disbelief. I spent 3 days concluding that something this drastic doesn't "just happen" and I asked her straight out if there was someone else. Yes, there was. Enter more shock. (And I learned why people are told to sit down before being told bad news. When she told me, I was standing up, and my knees physically buckled and I ended up on the floor).

2) I concluded the next day that a) I wasn't sure I wanted to keep her and b) in the event that I should want to keep her, begging her to stay wasn't going to help so we arranged for her to move out pretty much immediately.
Over the next couple of weeks, I went into problem-solving mode. Pretty much saturated by brain with everything I could get my hands on in terms of relationship literature, forums, blogs, you name it. Goal: Figure out how to get better asap. (That is: Not feel like a gorilla was doing jumping squats on my chest every day when I woke up)

I made a plan!

3) Plan was: 
Grieving phase A: I learned from reading that for the first few weeks after the initial shock, I was incompetent at making decisions. So I made a rule for myself, to not make any stupid decisions. No drinking-rule enforced. No dating. Also; focus on making time pass. Time allocated: 4 weeks.
Phase B: Subsequently, it was about getting all my ducks in order at the same time as laying the groundwork for the future. That meant: Grieving. Getting over the past. Crying when I needed to, being pathetic when I had to (but only when alone). Divide up equity with ex-wife, arranged for 50/50-split with the kids every other week. Week without kids: Worked like hell to make time pass (as many hours as my body could cope with). Regular stops in the bathroom to have a cry, then power through the next few hours.
NO Dating-rule still in effect, although I did start browsing on dating sites just to have a look.
Time allocated: 5 months.

4) Phase C begins on January 1st 2012. At that point, I granted myself back the competency to make dating-decisions, work decisions, major financial decisions. That also meant I had to stop whining like a little girl, so I stopped with the cries on December 31st. Started dating. Met a few girls. Worked less. Got involved in activities. Going out with friends. 
Still felt like crap at times, but it was familiar crap that I could handle.

Since then, it's only gotten better. 

I know this stuff reads like a project plan. And it was. I didn't have the Gantt-charts created, but I had (and still have) a document that I created a few days after D-day that became my plan to win back my sanity. 

Because the first thing I learned when I started my research back then - and the most important thing: When we are undergoing major transitions with massive emotional impact, we are not capable of making good, rational long-term decisions. 

When the CEO of your company is on sick leave and his temp is a Maniac Clown, that's not when you make important decisions that will impact the business long term. That's when you let the machinery take over and cross your fingers that the CEO is back soon.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Tall said:


> Sorry, dropped off for a few days. Work is like that - some periods, I don't have time for much else.
> 
> I wasn't even going to respond (since it's been so long), but with Season 1 of Unbe: The (non-)Bachelor starting up, I thought I'd finish up the post I started last week. See in particular points 3 and 4 below.
> 
> Now, first of all; I'm not in the US, and in one particular aspect there is a cultural difference: You appear to have a much greater reliance on outside counselling than what I'm used to. There is some MC, and some IC - but mostly this is reserved for more extreme cases, where there is a definite psychological illness at play.
> 
> Having said that; I did briefly consider an appointment with a psychologist when this all went down. Other factors at the time made me decide to not go forward with that.
> 
> Instead, this is how I dealt with it:
> 
> 1) On D-day, I reacted as expected. Shock, disbelief, and an utter inability to think straight. The shock was actually spread over 3 days: Day 1, she told me she wanted to leave as she no longer loved me. Cue the disbelief. I spent 3 days concluding that something this drastic doesn't "just happen" and I asked her straight out if there was someone else. Yes, there was. Enter more shock. (And I learned why people are told to sit down before being told bad news. When she told me, I was standing up, and my knees physically buckled and I ended up on the floor).
> 
> 2) I concluded the next day that a) I wasn't sure I wanted to keep her and b) in the event that I should want to keep her, begging her to stay wasn't going to help so we arranged for her to move out pretty much immediately.
> Over the next couple of weeks, I went into problem-solving mode. Pretty much saturated by brain with everything I could get my hands on in terms of relationship literature, forums, blogs, you name it. Goal: Figure out how to get better asap. (That is: Not feel like a gorilla was doing jumping squats on my chest every day when I woke up)
> 
> I made a plan!
> 
> 3) Plan was:
> Grieving phase A: I learned from reading that for the first few weeks after the initial shock, I was incompetent at making decisions. So I made a rule for myself, to not make any stupid decisions. No drinking-rule enforced. No dating. Also; focus on making time pass. Time allocated: 4 weeks.
> Phase B: Subsequently, it was about getting all my ducks in order at the same time as laying the groundwork for the future. That meant: Grieving. Getting over the past. Crying when I needed to, being pathetic when I had to (but only when alone). Divide up equity with ex-wife, arranged for 50/50-split with the kids every other week. Week without kids: Worked like hell to make time pass (as many hours as my body could cope with). Regular stops in the bathroom to have a cry, then power through the next few hours.
> NO Dating-rule still in effect, although I did start browsing on dating sites just to have a look.
> Time allocated: 5 months.
> 
> 4) Phase C begins on January 1st 2012. At that point, I granted myself back the competency to make dating-decisions, work decisions, major financial decisions. That also meant I had to stop whining like a little girl, so I stopped with the cries on December 31st. Started dating. Met a few girls. Worked less. Got involved in activities. Going out with friends.
> Still felt like crap at times, but it was familiar crap that I could handle.
> 
> Since then, it's only gotten better.
> 
> I know this stuff reads like a project plan. And it was. I didn't have the Gantt-charts created, but I had (and still have) a document that I created a few days after D-day that became my plan to win back my sanity.
> 
> Because the first thing I learned when I started my research back then - and the most important thing: When we are undergoing major transitions with massive emotional impact, we are not capable of making good, rational long-term decisions.
> 
> When the CEO of your company is on sick leave and his temp is a Maniac Clown, that's not when you make important decisions that will impact the business long term. That's when you let the machinery take over and cross your fingers that the CEO is back soon.


Were you able to analyze what happened in the relationship? Did you learn anything significant about yourself?


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> ...and amigos forever they'll be.
> 
> Now which one of yall shot the invisible swordsman?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Im definitely dusty bottoms...lol

Update:

Settlement offer was received from MB attorney. Shes asking for around 10k on top of our original agreement (which was half the proceeds of the sale of the home). Keep in mind she told me when we meet up that her lawyers did this to see what they can squeeze out.

Part of me wants to say FU and fight it, part of me wants to just sign it and move forward.


----------



## Chuck71

Accept, counter offer, reject. What does Unbe want?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Depends how much it will cost you to fight it.

Counter with 2.5K. Settle for 5K. 

That's what I'd do, anyways.


----------



## Chuck71

Yet if the agreement was for 10k less and her f-toy wants the extra 10k.... why? Trip with MB to Acapulco after D?

If you want to go fire makes steel.... counter with extra 10k yourself from agreement.

It's up to you. In the end.... the lawyers get the $$$

Whatever you can live with....


----------



## unbe

Unbe wants to counter with she gets nothing, no part of home, no money at all, she gets the D that she so desperately looked for and that's it. Plus she pays for my lawyer fees. 

Also, I wont press charges for animal cruelty. She can have that as a going away present. 

Not sure if that's logical UNBE to emotional UNBE


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Im definitely dusty bottoms...lol
> 
> Update:
> 
> Settlement offer was received from MB attorney. Shes asking for around 10k on top of our original agreement (which was half the proceeds of the sale of the home). Keep in mind she told me when we meet up that her lawyers did this to see what they can squeeze out.
> 
> Part of me wants to say FU and fight it, part of me wants to just sign it and move forward.


"Oh, ok then when I reject you tell your attorneys what we already aggreed to?"

See what she says.


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> Yet if the agreement was for 10k less and her f-toy wants the extra 10k.... why? Trip with MB to Acapulco after D?
> 
> If you want to go fire makes steel.... counter with extra 10k yourself from agreement.
> 
> It's up to you. In the end.... the lawyers get the $$$
> 
> Whatever you can live with....


Why Acapulco Chuck?


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## Chuck71

You can't "have it all" but..... neither should she


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## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> Why Acapulco Chuck?


Rio has the Zika virus...... was 1st choice for MB and F-toy


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## ThreeStrikes

Lawyers love drawn out cases.

If you can get out quick and easy for a few grand, do it.

Peace of mind can be bought, sometimes.


----------



## farsidejunky

ThreeStrikes said:


> Lawyers love drawn out cases.
> 
> If you can get out quick and easy for a few grand, do it.
> 
> Peace of mind can be bought, sometimes.


This.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

If you seek vengeance, you are barking up the wrong tree

You said yourself she thinks not a damn thing is wrong with her

Battles won are fine.... but eye the GDamn war


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## Chuck71

Play dumb...... until hearing.... play the old Unbe

at hearing.... bring up ethics violations 

Not a great move to have a plaintiff fvcking her legal counsel


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## ReturntoZero

ThreeStrikes said:


> Lawyers love drawn out cases.
> 
> If you can get out quick and easy for a few grand, do it.
> 
> Peace of mind can be bought, sometimes.


If she'll sign, I'd offer the 2.5k and settle @5 grand.

Just get it over with. Think about it. The last dollar you'll ever give her.


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## Chuck71

After the D is finalized..... make sure to utilize the 30 days to depart the home in her name.

Oh.... the last month there..... don't pay the mortgage.


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## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> After the D is finalized..... make sure to utilize the 30 days to depart the home in her name.
> 
> Oh.... the last month there..... don't pay the mortgage.


We are selling the home and spitting the proceeds. I am living here until that happens. 

Last night was dark...thanks to my safe man for your help!

Woke up feeling better today, been running around getting some stuff done. 

Reading right now, getting back to 50k


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## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> Rio has the Zika virus...... was 1st choice for MB and F-toy



Acapulco is where my XW went with POSOM while we were D'ing. 

Posted lots of pics by herself and told the kids she went alone. 

When POSOM got back from "business trip" his wife saw my wife's name on the luggage tags. 

Oops!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> Acapulco is where my XW went with POSOM while we were D'ing.
> 
> Posted lots of pics by herself and told the kids she went alone.
> 
> When POSOM got back from "business trip" his wife saw my wife's name on the luggage tags.
> 
> Oops!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd say posOM wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed.


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## Ceegee

ReturntoZero said:


> I'd say posOM wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed.



No these guys never are. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> No these guys never are.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I trust Mrs. posOM got a large settlement.


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## Ceegee

ReturntoZero said:


> I trust Mrs. posOM got a large settlement.



Three years of spousal plus half of his bonuses for a couple of years on top of child support. 

She's getting married in a couple of months though so spousal may be ending. Don't think she really cares. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## unbe

Been struggling to stay dark with MB....had a whole letter typed up but didn't send it.

This sucks....


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## Chuck71

Don't send......

post it here if you can't delete it


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## ThreeStrikes

One of the best benefits of being alone is that you learn to control your thoughts.

I suggest reviewing this topic in IC to learn some strategies.

You're obsessing about her, and it's damaging you.

Turn your mind to better things.


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## unbe

God, I just read what I was about to send and I wanna kick my own arse...I should post it here so you guys can pummel me with 2X4s


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## Chuck71

unbe said:


> God, I just read what I was about to send and I wanna kick my own arse...I should post it here so you guys can pummel me with 2X4s


You mean these???


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## synthetic

Post it here. I posted many of mine and it's hilarious to read now!


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## Chuck71

A flu / polio / etc. shot hurts a bit when you get it...... then you see the benefits.


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## Thound

Chuck71 said:


> You mean these???


Those look like 2X6s. Kind of hard to swing.


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## farsidejunky

Thound said:


> Those look like 2X6s. Kind of hard to swing.


Dafuq Chuck?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee

unbe said:


> God, I just read what I was about to send and I wanna kick my own arse...I should post it here so you guys can pummel me with 2X4s



Bro, please don't send her anything. 

Nothing. 

Dark. 

Think to yourself, "what would TAM say?"




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## unbe

I haven't sent her anything. its scary what loneliness can do to you. This is a scary email:



I have been thinking a lot about our meeting. I don't want you getting sick and potentially hurting yourself. Even after all this bickering and negativity I still want us to try and make our marriage work. 

Please read this and I ask God to help you consider it:

I would like for you to move back home. We can find a impartial meditator and file our divorce and split up whatever. List the house. Put that part behind us. 

As this is going on we go to marriage counseling every week. We also attend this: Marriage Help Program For Couples

I really want to know in my heart that I did everything possible to make this work. I married you with intentions on taking care of you until I had no air left in my lungs. Last time I checked, I'm still breathing!

When you agreed to marry me it was because you believed I would make you feel cherished for the rest of your life. You were sure your heart would be safe with me, so you gave it to me, but after we got married I left you feeling neglected and insignificant. I did whatever I wanted and gave little thought to what you wanted or needed. Everyday you wanted to discuss your work day I treated it as an annoyance rather than a chance to offer support and love. How awful that must have been for you, the very man you entrusted your life to, was the biggest threat to your self worth and security. You married me because I made you feel valuable yet my self-centeredness left you feeling worthless. You are an amazing woman who deserves to be cherished, but you were made to feel so unimportant. Now that I see you for who you are, I can only regret all my missed opportunities to treat you like a treasure. It is no surprise you want to keep your heart from someone who has shown himself to be unsafe.

As I look back over our marriage I realize now that all those times you tried to share your heart with me I would respond like you were attacking me. What a fool I was! I didn't see it then, but i see it now, you made yourself vulnerable every time you tried to talk to me. You were revealing your concerns about my spending habits. You were afraid your shoulders weren't broad enough to carry the load of our home. You were afraid for our future as a couple. You took a risk and bared yourself to me over and over until you finally couldn't bear the pain anymore. How awful that must have been for you. Please know this, no matter what happens to us in the future, I will always try and be safe with your heart. I am ready to take responsibility for my previous actions and build a safe and bright future no matter the cost. 

If at the end of that time we both don't agree that it's salvageable, we sign the divorce papers and I will leave the home and your will never have to hear from me again. I will put this in writing to show I'm being honorable. 

I always felt I've tried so hard to make you happy. Until recently, I didn't realize I was applying that effort incorrectly. Imagine what I can do if I apply it to making you feel safe, helping you grow, the way you need it. Not the way I thought you wanted it. 


You've given me 8 years MB to prove that I could be a man that can take care of your heart and I failed you. I've been selfish with your feelings and I'm sorry for that. I'm asking for 4 more months(the time it will take for our divorce to be final), to show you that I'm capable of being that man. I am asking during that time that you to open up your heart and allow our marriage a chance at survival. 

We really have nothing to lose and only a loving, supportive marriage to gain. 4 more months for a lifetime of no regrets. 

https://youtu.be/XpVtPSlUr3I- this man wrote this song for me


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## Chuck71

1-Hobbies. Collect ball cards, buy a full run of Married w/Children and watch it in your underwear drinking beer.

2-HER preacher said RUN. That's like her mom telling you she is beyond damaged.

If you want to date her AFTER the D.... do so.

Some people drink at the end of a M.... MB drinks in a new relationship..... the outcome remains the same.

I think ThreeX said it best.... her script will always remain the same. The only changes are the actors.


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## synthetic

unbe,

I promise in 2 years (probably less), you will read that email and absolutely want to roll on the floor laughing!

It won't be sad or even nostalgic. It will actually make you a bit angry with yourself (again) and then you will laugh at your own misguided feelings.

There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do. It's completely normal. It's even normal for you to send her that email and get the normal response which essentially translates to "I tried hard, but couldn't find any f**ks to give Unbe".

The smart thing to do is to break that cycle of "normal", because normal in your world is a source of hurt and anguish. If you realize and accept the fact that *your normal* is bad, then you'll change your criteria for normal. This is called growth.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> unbe,
> 
> I promise in 2 years (probably less), you will read that email and absolutely want to roll on the floor laughing!
> 
> It won't be sad or even nostalgic. It will actually make you a bit angry with yourself (again) and then you will laugh at your own misguided feelings.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do. It's completely normal. It's even normal for you to send her that email and get the normal response which essentially translates to "I tried hard, but couldn't find any f**ks to give Unbe".
> 
> The smart thing to do is to break that cycle of "normal", because normal in your world is a source of hurt and anguish. If you realize and accept the fact that *your normal* is bad, then you'll change your criteria for normal. This is called growth.



Heres the thing...90% of the email is BS. I dont believe in most of it.

Also, I KNOW MB isnt good for me or anyone for that matter. Shes not even good for herself TBH. Even though my logical self knows this, all my friends tell me this and are adamet about saying it to me daily. I still sometimes let me emotions get the best of me and allow myself to wallow.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Heres the thing...90% of the email is BS. I dont believe in most of it.



So why would you write it?

Give an answer that doesn't include MB. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ThreeStrikes

Take your shining armor off, throw away your sword.

Now re-read your email, and feel free to puke in your helmet. Throw that away too.

Put on some Wranglers, zip them up IN THE FRONT, and go live your life like a man.

You think Pitt, Clooney, Eastwood, or Redford would write such drvel?

Synth is correct. In the not-too-distant future you will be laughing at yourself. Cuz you're an ass.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> .
> 2-HER preacher said RUN. That's like her mom telling you she is beyond damaged.


Chuck,

Its funny you say this. When I asked stbxmil for her permission to marry MB she of course gave me her blessing however it came with an apology. That apology was "I'm sorry for the way I raised her"

How telling is that apology is now??!!


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## Chuck71

You were a KISA / Mr. Fixer. Wanna know how to change that?

Keep "were" .... as in past tense


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## unbe

Ceegee said:


> So why would you write it?
> 
> Give an answer that doesn't include MB.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


because im an ass....thats the only reason i can come up with!


----------



## synthetic

unbe said:


> because im an ass....thats the only reason i can come up with!


Here's the real reason:

Your parents taught you to overstate your positive intentions in order to get rewarded. This behavior could simply start from innocent moments in your infancy all the way to adolescence. 

It's used in training dogs all the time, but humans don't behave like dogs in their adulthood. Their imagination, vocabulary and creativity expands and results in fvcked-up acts of over-exaggeration and deceit like the letter you wrote.

It's basically encouraged dishonesty and is very much advocated by society, mainstream media and schools.


----------



## unbe

On a lighter note:


So last night I did end up seeing Monto. This was after a week of near darkness (not me initiating but responding, small talk) I had mentioned I was going snowboarding for the first time this weekend and if she was free friday that may be her last chance to see me upright, that got it done.

Picked her up and we went for sushi (my first time trying that) and left afterwards open. When I was driving there she called me to see how far out I was. She had mentioned when I got there to call her and she would come out. She did this the first time I picked her up as well. She is clearly embarrassed by her living situation however the calling/honking/texting is not something I'm cool with. So I just went to the door and rang the bell.

She answered and immediately apologized for the way her house looked (shes been living at home ever since her D which was 5 years ago, she lives with her dad).

I told her there is no need for that at all. She then invited me in to meet her father. We exchanged pleasantries and 15 minutes later where on our way. When we got outside she kissed me hello. Things i noticed, she still has furniture wrapped up from her old home and old marriage. Her D ended poorly, he was a drug abuser and cheater. She had mentioned she tried to work it out but it was all one sided. After seeing the furniture and remebering that conversation it led me to this conclusion: She is very, very guarded! However, she is slowly becoming more comfortable with me which is good because this needs to progress very very very slowly. 

Off to the restaurant, conversation was easy, funny and refreshing. I told her to order whatever she liked and I would try everything, I have no idea what I was eating lol.

We were there for around 2 hours, had a few laughs, she was showing me pics on her phone and a text string that she thought was funny. Had a nice time.

I asked her if she would like to go home or contniue the night, she suggested a movie and that she insitied on paying. I agreed (I had paid for everything so far, this was our 3rd date) and off we went.

We get into the theater, I lean in a kiss her and say "its great to see you again" she smiles and sighs...

We get comfortable (may hand and arm in her leg, her hand on top of my hand, other arm on my forearm. The movie starts..

I look over to her about 20 minutes later, she is out like a light! lol

I stroke her face and she wakes up:

Unbe: good morning!
Monto: OMG I am so embarrassed. Im so sorry
Unbe: Please dont be. You looked adorable sleeping. Do you want to call it a night
Monto: No, lets stay and finish the movie.

During the movie I can tell she is getting more and more comfortable with me, she stroked my face. Rubbed my back after the movie ended, all very good signs. We are obviously connecting.

I drive her home after the movie, walk her to her door. We kiss goodnight for about 10 minutes, she thanks me for dinner. My response: "anytime"

She asks me to text her when i get home (about an hour drive)

So I do, my text "Just got in. I absolutely love spending my time with you. Get some rest. BTW you falling asleep was one of the cutest things I have ever seen"- I wanted to take away her insecurities about that. 

Her response: "So embarrassing. lol. but thank you  I had a great time too despite how passing out may seem. Sleep well. You have a big day tomorrow. Have fun and be careful 

IMO couldn't have gone better.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Sigh


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Sigh


Is it really that bad?


----------



## Tron

Damn 3X, you are giving the poor man a complex.

You both had a good time. Sounds like a nice date.

Just don't read too much into it or get all mushy.


----------



## Ceegee

ThreeStrikes said:


> Sigh



Lol. 

This one in and of itself isn't that bad. 

How you handled the falling asleep thing wasn't alpha. 

Fellas, help me explain this...you complimented bad behavior. And, true to form, in over the top fashion. 

Nitpicky, sure. 

Just coaching. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Lol.
> 
> This one in and of itself isn't that bad.
> 
> How you handled the falling asleep thing wasn't alpha.
> 
> Fellas, help me explain this...you complimented bad behavior. And, true to form, in over the top fashion.
> 
> Nitpicky, sure.
> 
> Just coaching.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Should I have pimp slapped her lol...poor girl was exhausted and still trouped it out with me. Maybe it wasn't ALPHA but why do I have to handle EVERY situation that way? Shouldn't there be some wiggle room?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

There was an opportunity to explore your reason for writing that email. Synth gave you an insightful response.

Rather than discuss it, you changed the subject back to another 'date night recap.'

3 words regarding the date with this woman you are pursuing:

She. Fell. Asleep.

You write your cheater wife a desperate email, begging her to give you another chance.

Shortly after, you date a gal who falls asleep in your company, and you came to her rescue and said it was cute.

What is little a Unbe afraid of?

Are you attempting to prove something to us?


----------



## Tron

If I was dating, going out to movies would not be the first thing on my list of things to do.

Closer to the last, because it certainly doesnt help you get to know the person you are dating.

All that said, if current plans go through I am taking my wife out to dinner and a movie tonight. &#55357;&#56836;. 

I hope I don't fall asleep in it. It has happened before.

The alpha thing to say btw when she fell asleep would have been "I have a real nice bed at my place, let's go!"


----------



## Ceegee

The question I had for you about the letter and the comment about your date are related. 

Can you piece them together?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> There was an opportunity to explore your reason for writing that email. Synth gave you an insightful response.
> 
> Rather than discuss it, you changed the subject back to another 'date anothe recap.
> 
> 3 words regarding the date with this woman you are pursuing:
> 
> She. Fell. Asleep.
> 
> You write your cheater wife a desperate email, begging her to give you another chance.
> 
> Shortly after, you date a gal who falls asleep in your company, and you came to her rescue and said it was cute.
> 
> What is little a Unbe afraid of?
> 
> Are you attempting to prove something to us?


Honestly I didn't know how to respond to synths post, still don't. 

I cant just post all negative thoughts and feelings, its exhausting. 

With that being said...Your right!


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> The question I had for you about the letter and the comment about your date are related.
> 
> Can you piece them together?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Common theme...

I am not confident enough in myself to be alone. Therefore I am willing to accept poor behavior and even reward it

Trons comment is right, I am not even close to that thought process nor have I ever been


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## Chuck71

Dates are a bit harder to plan I guess... being where you are it is still colder than a well digger's arse.

But you have much more variety. Where I live... anything "showy" is about 40 miles away. That's what most

like to do on a first date. I'm not most people.

Book stores are good. Coffee shops. Hiking in nearby Nat'l Park. The historic district.

Looks are important but I'm looking for much more than that. 

Unbe.... you should not be dating seriously this soon. You miss this "connectivity" and that is normal.

You can't force it or expect this overnight. 

These are just dates.... plan these around things you enjoy. If she doesn't have a good time.... WGAS....

If a female likes you... she don't give two schist where you go, as long as you make it interesting.

You over-analyze dates. You remind me of Poida. It's a guy's thing to break down the winning drive 

with two minutes to go. It's her job to break the date down and analyze it with her g/fs while they 

sit in a circle, in their panties, eating yogurt. You are not on a game show where if you don't find a LTR 

in ten tries they banish you to the South Sandwich Islands. Pull up the group Winger.... song Easy Come, Easy Go. 

....... D five years and her schit is still packed up? Something is up..... medium to large red flag.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> Common theme...
> 
> I am not confident enough in myself to be alone. Therefore I am willing to accept poor behavior and even reward it
> 
> Trons comment is right, I am not even close to that thought process nor have I ever been


That's part of it.

What many of us codependents and KISAs have had to overcome is this:

Not only did we accept being treated poorly, and reward it....we owned it! We made it 'our issue'.

How much emotional energy have we spent covering up the sh!tty behavior of our partner? "Oh, it must be because of me" or "It's true, like she says, it's my fault" blah blah.

Take, for example, your email. Here's a woman that has cheated on you, and continues to treat you poorly. Yet, in your email you take all the responsibility for her behavior and beg for another chance...to prove you changed!

Now your date: She falls asleep, which is a blatant slap in the face..a sign that she's not into you. Yet, you own it and gave her a pass. KISA behavior. (Imagine if *you *had fallen asleep. Think she'd go out with you again?)

Overcoming this way of thinking and behaving will be your biggest challenge, because it is rooted in FOO. Sometimes I wonder if we did/do this because we can't take the pain of rejection. Which parent rejected us? Who are we trying to impress?

Unbe, you are not defined by your woman. You are You. If a woman rejects you, with words or actions, see it for what it is. It's HER issue, not yours. *She's* not into you. Don't own it. You don't have to cover for her, or make excuses. You have no idea what she's looking for in a man. (But you can bet it's based on her FOO, too.)


----------



## Chuck71

If a female I am going out with..... who is a day shifter M/F..... and we go out on a Friday evening....

to a movie..... and she goes to sleep.... oh he!! no. Usually women going on a post-1st date with a guy would be

perky..... vibrant. Now if she was a night shifter.... there's wiggle room there.

ThreeX hit the nail on head.... she fell asleep and you ended up apologizing. 

A guy from TAM.... I was his safe man last year. He had gotten his live-in a sweater. Ended up being one size

too small. "You got this for me to let me know I need to lose weight, you just won't come out and tell me."

Guess what he did..... he began apologizing.

Me? Return it for correct size or trash it if it offends you. Notice I never addressed what she wanted me to


----------



## turnera

Female here. I think the way you handled her falling asleep was adorable. You showed her you are safe to be around, given how guarded she is. 

And I want to step in and say people fall asleep at movies all the time. Just last night, a guy next to me snored all the way through London Is Falling. Something about relaxing, being comfy, in the dark...sleep ensues.

That said, if something like that happens again, it would be a good time to say 'I'm beginning to think we have an incompatibility problem' and pull things back.


----------



## farsidejunky

I don't see her falling asleep as a slap in the face. I see it as her being tired in a poorly lit room in a moderately comfortable seat.

When one goes looking for disrespect, one should not be surprised when they find it, whether it actually exists or not.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## synthetic

> Sometimes I wonder if we did/do this because we can't take the pain of rejection. Which parent rejected us? Who are we trying to impress?


Based on years of struggling I have endured, and lots of research that I have done, I would say, for the vast majority of men, it's the father who owns the blame for this.

My own father openly and actively still rejects me and even at 34 years old, I still feel like a toddler with a spoiled diaper when I'm around him. That assh0le has pretty much ruined me forever with his subtle, but powerful maltreatment.

I know why I accept and even own bad behavior by others. To avoid rejection. To prevent my father's prophecy of "Son, you're a failure" from gaining truth. 

2 weeks ago, that f**ker bluntly said the following to me in front of my fiance:

"You idiot, I told you 6 years ago that your marriage to your ex-wife would fail. I was right ha? Now you're going to fail again because you still haven't grown up. The only reason I'm letting you in this house is because of your fiance whom I love very much"

I immediately got up and left (with my fiance), but haven't been able to get over the pain yet. He has done this dozens of times to me and it still continues to get more painful.


----------



## Chuck71

Yo pop..... you here to help or hinder me? Get up n leave.

My pop was an old school "by God"

We faced off first when I was 16.... many times after. 

Funny thing.... most of what I use here today..... was from his teachings. Go figure


----------



## ThreeStrikes

turnera said:


> Female here. I think the way you handled her falling asleep was adorable. You showed her you are safe to be around, given how guarded she is.
> 
> And I want to step in and say people fall asleep at movies all the time. Just last night, a guy next to me snored all the way through London Is Falling. Something about relaxing, being comfy, in the dark...sleep ensues.
> 
> That said, if something like that happens again, it would be a good time to say 'I'm beginning to think we have an incompatibility problem' and pull things back.


I suppose if you're married or in a LTR its something to laugh about.

But date #2(3?)? Not cool. Maybe its just me, but when I was in the early phases of dating, I was looking for that gal to be into me. To impress me. 

Slow responder to texts? Uh, no
Lives with Dad for 5 years? Uh, no
Fell asleep on date? Strike 3

But then, I can be an a$$ at times....


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Heres the thing...90% of the email is BS. I dont believe in most of it.


Do you think manipulative people are jackasses?

Think about what you just said.


----------



## ReturntoZero

ThreeStrikes said:


> That's part of it.
> 
> What many of us codependents and KISAs have had to overcome is this:
> 
> Not only did we accept being treated poorly, and reward it....we owned it! We made it 'our issue'.
> 
> How much emotional energy have we spent covering up the sh!tty behavior of our partner? "Oh, it must be because of me" or "It's true, like she says, it's my fault" blah blah.
> 
> Take, for example, your email. Here's a woman that has cheated on you, and continues to treat you poorly. Yet, in your email you take all the responsibility for her behavior and beg for another chance...to prove you changed!
> 
> Now your date: She falls asleep, which is a blatant slap in the face..a sign that she's not into you. Yet, you own it and gave her a pass. KISA behavior. (Imagine if *you *had fallen asleep. Think she'd go out with you again?)
> 
> Overcoming this way of thinking and behaving will be your biggest challenge, because it is rooted in FOO. Sometimes I wonder if we did/do this because we can't take the pain of rejection. Which parent rejected us? Who are we trying to impress?
> 
> Unbe, you are not defined by your woman. You are You. If a woman rejects you, with words or actions, see it for what it is. It's HER issue, not yours. *She's* not into you. Don't own it. You don't have to cover for her, or make excuses. You have no idea what she's looking for in a man. (But you can bet it's based on her FOO, too.)


This is suitable for a frame.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> I don't see her falling asleep as a slap in the face. I see it as her being tired in a poorly lit room in a moderately comfortable seat.
> 
> When one goes looking for disrespect, one should not be surprised when they find it, whether it actually exists or not.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I honestly didn't see it as a sign of disrespect either but can see how others may.

I took it as she was tired and felt comfortable enough around me to fall asleep.


----------



## unbe

synthetic said:


> Based on years of struggling I have endured, and lots of research that I have done, I would say, for the vast majority of men, it's the father who owns the blame for this.
> 
> My own father openly and actively still rejects me and even at 34 years old, I still feel like a toddler with a spoiled diaper when I'm around him. That assh0le has pretty much ruined me forever with his subtle, but powerful maltreatment.
> 
> I know why I accept and even own bad behavior by others. To avoid rejection. To prevent my father's prophecy of "Son, you're a failure" from gaining truth.
> 
> 2 weeks ago, that f**ker bluntly said the following to me in front of my fiance:
> 
> "You idiot, I told you 6 years ago that your marriage to your ex-wife would fail. I was right ha? Now you're going to fail again because you still haven't grown up. The only reason I'm letting you in this house is because of your fiance whom I love very much"
> 
> I immediately got up and left (with my fiance), but haven't been able to get over the pain yet. He has done this dozens of times to me and it still continues to get more painful.


I have no relationship with my pop whatsoever. We didn't talk for years until about 2 years ago when I was going through this with MB the first time, I reached out and tried to establish some sort of relationships with him. We have seen each other a few times and holidays but not much else.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> I suppose if you're married or in a LTR its something to laugh about.
> 
> But date #2(3?)? Not cool. Maybe its just me, but when I was in the early phases of dating, I was looking for that gal to be into me. To impress me.
> 
> Slow responder to texts? Uh, no
> Lives with Dad for 5 years? Uh, no
> Fell asleep on date? Strike 3
> 
> But then, I can be an a$$ at times....


I can see your side of this also. I agree with most of what you wrote as well. In any event I will just move on and see where the chips may fall, no expectations.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Do you think manipulative people are jackasses?
> 
> Think about what you just said.


I am clearly a jackass and notice this POS tendency in me as well as in MB.

Manipulate to get what we want...I say MB shows signs of BPD and Im convinced she is and perhaps even Bi-polar. 

Guess what...I have signs of BPD as well.

Also a sign of how bad my co-dependency really is...


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> That's part of it.
> 
> What many of us codependents and KISAs have had to overcome is this:
> 
> Not only did we accept being treated poorly, and reward it....we owned it! We made it 'our issue'.
> 
> How much emotional energy have we spent covering up the sh!tty behavior of our partner? "Oh, it must be because of me" or "It's true, like she says, it's my fault" blah blah.
> 
> Take, for example, your email. Here's a woman that has cheated on you, and continues to treat you poorly. Yet, in your email you take all the responsibility for her behavior and beg for another chance...to prove you changed!
> 
> Now your date: She falls asleep, which is a blatant slap in the face..a sign that she's not into you. Yet, you own it and gave her a pass. KISA behavior. (Imagine if *you *had fallen asleep. Think she'd go out with you again?)
> 
> Overcoming this way of thinking and behaving will be your biggest challenge, because it is rooted in FOO. Sometimes I wonder if we did/do this because we can't take the pain of rejection. Which parent rejected us? Who are we trying to impress?
> 
> Unbe, you are not defined by your woman. You are You. If a woman rejects you, with words or actions, see it for what it is. It's HER issue, not yours. *She's* not into you. Don't own it. You don't have to cover for her, or make excuses. You have no idea what she's looking for in a man. (But you can bet it's based on her FOO, too.)


Perhaps your right, while I believe some of your points are spot on I also feel others may not be. I am not defined by a women, 1000% correct.

This women made her intentions clear and admitted to being unable to really make plans and respond to text in a manner in which most people do well before we even met. Now she clearly has some issues that are still yet to uncover themselves however I don't necessarily think shes not into me.

If we believe what she is saying (which I dont feel it would be fair to not, at least until proven otherwise). She is spending most of her free time with me, shows signs of affection and has initiated kissing a few times. These are not signs of a girl who is not into you...

Enough about this...lets get back to talking about how screwed up I am and how we can get passed the MB drawbacks


----------



## unbe

Update:

Nothing to report, worked yesterday, working today. Days are getting shorter (which is good). Been looking in a few states for a new job, well see if anything comes of that. 

Considering Houston, Nashville, San Diego and Vegas. If I find something that knocks my socks off I will make the move. 

Momma Unbe ripped into me yesterday. She had asked if I was mentally ready for the D where I admitted I wasn't. Practically its happening and I'm prepared, I wont get taken advantage of. However, emotionally I am not ready. She was not happy with this and tried to make me see all the bad MB has done to me. She cant understand why I am not passed it. 

I cant either....


----------



## synthetic

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Momma Unbe ripped into me yesterday. She had asked if I was mentally ready for the D where I admitted I wasn't. Practically its happening and I'm prepared, I wont get taken advantage of. However, emotionally I am not ready. She was not happy with this and tried to make me see all the bad MB has done to me. She cant understand why I am not passed it.
> 
> I cant either....


At least your mom is on the right side. Value it.

My mom kept asking me if I was sure about it and didn't want to attempt yet another reconciliation. Insane I know!

Not having a relationship with your father is a huge lead into what needs fixing in you. Always remember: You are subconsciously always seeking your father's approval. The reason you don't have a good relationship with him is your inability to get that approval on a desired basis.

In other words, your father is a d1ck. Not as bad as mine (no one is), but still, not good either.

Dive into that with a therapist or on your own and start understanding why you are the way you are.


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Nothing to report, worked yesterday, working today. Days are getting shorter (which is good). Been looking in a few states for a new job, well see if anything comes of that.
> 
> Considering Houston, Nashville, San Diego and Vegas. If I find something that knocks my socks off I will make the move. .


Houston's a great place to live. What's your industry?


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe.... I'd like to delve into your issues with your father. But not on this thread. This month makes 20 years

since he passed, my pop. I loved him but I also hated him. I touched on it a bit back in 2013-14 on my old

Crossroads II thread. But this time... I'd like to go deeper. I'd like you to contribute.

I'll PM you the thread when I open it.

What Synth said is correct. I can give several examples. I can say.... things were better between us the last few years

but it was "at arm's length" 

Sometimes mom.... in her diminished state, will look at me and, to a degree see pop. Yeah... weird.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Tell us more about Momma Unbe.

What did she say... exactly?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe.... I'd like to delve into your issues with your father. But not on this thread. This month makes 20 years
> 
> since he passed, my pop. I loved him but I also hated him. I touched on it a bit back in 2013-14 on my old
> 
> Crossroads II thread. But this time... I'd like to go deeper. I'd like you to contribute.
> 
> I'll PM you the thread when I open it.
> 
> What Synth said is correct. I can give several examples. I can say.... things were better between us the last few years
> 
> but it was "at arm's length"
> 
> Sometimes mom.... in her diminished state, will look at me and, to a degree see pop. Yeah... weird.


sounds good chuck...got lots to add im sure


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Tell us more about Momma Unbe.
> 
> What did she say... exactly?


She wants me to be past MB emotionally already and doesn't understand why I am not. She is fearful that even if the D is final, in 6 months if MB tries to come back that I will entertain it and she doesn't want me to at all. 

She tried to pound home the cheating and one sided-ness of our relationship and how its bad for me. Even offered to give me money to help with the lawyer fees (the is the first time she has offered me money for anything in over 20 years!)

She even is on board with me moving away for a few years in order to get away from MB.

She sees her as clearly toxic!


----------



## Chuck71

When you hear Pink Floyd's "Mother" ..... where does it take you?

Did you know you mom' parents much?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Sounds like your mom has had some experience with disordered people/spouses.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Sounds like your mom has had some experience with disordered people/spouses.


She went though a rough D with my dad. He cheated, left, came back was still seeing OW, then lived in the basement for a year. Finally moved out, wound up marrying OW.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> She wants me to be past MB emotionally already and doesn't understand why I am not. She is fearful that even if the D is final, in 6 months if MB tries to come back that I will entertain it and she doesn't want me to at all.
> 
> She tried to pound home the cheating and one sided-ness of our relationship and how its bad for me. Even offered to give me money to help with the lawyer fees (the is the first time she has offered me money for anything in over 20 years!)
> 
> She even is on board with me moving away for a few years in order to get away from MB.
> 
> She sees her as clearly toxic!


Yet, she's off the mark.

She's ignoring your role in this.

MB isn't your biggest problem. You are.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> She wants me to be past MB emotionally already and doesn't understand why I am not. She is fearful that even if the D is final, in 6 months if MB tries to come back that I will entertain it and she doesn't want me to at all.
> 
> 
> 
> She tried to pound home the cheating and one sided-ness of our relationship and how its bad for me. Even offered to give me money to help with the lawyer fees (the is the first time she has offered me money for anything in over 20 years!)
> 
> 
> 
> She even is on board with me moving away for a few years in order to get away from MB.
> 
> 
> 
> She sees her as clearly toxic!



It's not that she doesn't understand why you're not past MB. 

She wants you to be able to do what she couldn't.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> It's not that she doesn't understand why you're not past MB.
> 
> She wants you to be able to do what she couldn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are to do as she said, not as she did.

Break the cycle. For the benefit of you and your descendants.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Wisdom= learning from others' mistakes.


----------



## unbe

unbe said:


> Perhaps your right, while I believe some of your points are spot on I also feel others may not be. I am not defined by a women, 1000% correct.
> 
> This women made her intentions clear and admitted to being unable to really make plans and respond to text in a manner in which most people do well before we even met. Now she clearly has some issues that are still yet to uncover themselves however I don't necessarily think shes not into me.
> 
> If we believe what she is saying (which I dont feel it would be fair to not, at least until proven otherwise). She is spending most of her free time with me, shows signs of affection and has initiated kissing a few times. These are not signs of a girl who is not into you...
> 
> Enough about this...lets get back to talking about how screwed up I am and how we can get passed the MB drawbacks


well, it appears you may have been correct. I haven't heard from her in 2 days (I haven't reached out either). She was the last I was holding onto during the 5 week Unbe dating parade. Now that they are all done, its time to focus on myself!

Going to put all my energy on finding a new job, I hate it here. I need to move on...


----------



## turnera

What kind of work do you do?


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> What kind of work do you do?


I have been working as a sales manager at a car dealer for the last year. I worked for a company previously that assisted people relocate get acclimated in the US. I was in that industry for 15 years so that's my main focus. 

Houston is a booming city for relocations!


----------



## unbe

Update:

Cant seem to get out of my own head today. Just thinking a lot about the past, the future, whats in store for me. All relationship related. It has to stop!!!!

Turns out I did hear back from Monto today (no less than 5 minutes after I posted). I don't know what to say if anything TBH. In my world its not ok to take 2 days to respond to someone on text message. I don't even want to get into it with her.

I just need to stand still for a few and sort through everything in my head. 

Im exhausted every day from this crap! I really just want to push forward, forget about everyone and just focus on myself. I am just having a really hard time getting there.

I need to kick the job search into hi gear and set a short term goal to shift my focus onto something else....

These are the days where I feel my weakest....most vulnerable to an MB strike.


----------



## turnera

Well, we still have the medical industry here in Houston with The Medical Center, so you might be able to find work in that industry. Just don't expect much from the oil & gas industry. Great place to live, though.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I have been working as a sales manager at a car dealer for the last year. I worked for a company previously that assisted people relocate get acclimated in the US. I was in that industry for 15 years so that's my main focus.
> 
> Houston is a booming city for relocations!


They can always use another ass.


----------



## Tron

ReturntoZero said:


> They can always use another ass.


Not sure how I feel about this...especially coming from someone from Missouri.

Aren't mules and asses the same thing? :scratchhead:


----------



## Ceegee

Meh, we're all asses here.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe...... you shield yourself from fear through relationships. How's that worked out for ya?

Going through the pain is hard. We are hardwired to try our damn best to avoid it. Which is why so many

people don't "wake up." I was over my XW PFQ... and avoided the schit out of anything new / serious.

UG just kept on hammering away.... over and over. Until..... yeah. That lasted a year.... then I saw bandages drop.

It is instinctual to find a mate. If people didn't lose retirements, homes, have to pay alimony...

I'd be an advocate more for M.... ain't that way, least not for guys. Just grab your stuff n leave.... kinda like a 

live-in. I had NO idea about one year waits to file D, until I came here. Even with kids.... six months is plenty.

No kids...... 30 days GTFO.

A damaged Unbe will attract damaged MB II. A healthy female will run from you. Now a healthy Unbe...

whole different story.


----------



## Chuck71

We must now assume

ass/u/me


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe...... you shield yourself from fear through relationships. How's that worked out for ya?
> 
> Going through the pain is hard. We are hardwired to try our damn best to avoid it. Which is why so many
> 
> people don't "wake up." I was over my XW PFQ... and avoided the schit out of anything new / serious.
> 
> UG just kept on hammering away.... over and over. Until..... yeah. That lasted a year.... then I saw bandages drop.
> 
> It is instinctual to find a mate. If people didn't lose retirements, homes, have to pay alimony...
> 
> I'd be an advocate more for M.... ain't that way, least not for guys. Just grab your stuff n leave.... kinda like a
> 
> live-in. I had NO idea about one year waits to file D, until I came here. Even with kids.... six months is plenty.
> 
> No kids...... 30 days GTFO.
> 
> A damaged Unbe will attract damaged MB II. A healthy female will run from you. Now a healthy Unbe...
> 
> whole different story.


I hear this and am starting to see it...

I had an absolute amazing night last night. It was all attributed to being myself. Not putting on an act on what I think people wanna see. I was myself for the first time in a really long time. Turned out to be one of the most incredible nights of my life and I did not involve sex.

I woke up feeling strong and confident. I woke up realizing that the world doesn't revolve around anyone except ME. I am my #1 priority and I will make decisions that impact ME first. If anyone wants to stick around during this, great. If not, they can GTFO!

Last night was a turning point for me!!!


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I hear this and am starting to see it...
> 
> I had an absolute amazing night last night. It was all attributed to being myself. Not putting on an act on what I think people wanna see. I was myself for the first time in a really long time. Turned out to be one of the most incredible nights of my life and I did not involve sex.
> 
> I woke up feeling strong and confident. I woke up realizing that the world doesn't revolve around anyone except ME. I am my #1 priority and I will make decisions that impact ME first. If anyone wants to stick around during this, great. If not, they can GTFO!
> 
> Last night was a turning point for me!!!


It's the new avatar.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

ReturntoZero said:


> It's the new avatar.


Where's yours?


----------



## Chuck71

Is everything in place for the D countdown? 

If she is laying up with her lawyer, keep in mind.... s/he may get tired of each other.

If so.... MB will want "her" house back either way

MB runs but historically returns..... be aware


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Is everything in place for the D countdown?
> 
> If she is laying up with her lawyer, keep in mind.... s/he may get tired of each other.
> 
> If so.... MB will want "her" house back either way
> 
> MB runs but historically returns..... be aware


Its all in the hands of the lawyers now, mine knows my interest and is fighting for it. They are close and working out final deets

I think she was on rocky ground with her future mistake which is why she reached out a few weeks ago. I am not sure where they are these days nor do I even give it a thought.


----------



## unbe

I am sure the time is coming for a return tour soon, I am also certain I am ready to dodge it like barry sanders


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Its all in the hands of the lawyers now, mine knows my interest and is fighting for it. They are close and working out final deets
> 
> I think she was on rocky ground with her future mistake which is why she reached out a few weeks ago. I am not sure where they are these days nor do I even give it a thought.


Of the three episodes that you have mentioned.... did any of those last into May?

Or were they usually around the holidays / early spring?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Of the three episodes that you have mentioned.... did any of those last into May?
> 
> Or were they usually around the holidays / early spring?


They did not last till may, both seemed to end just after valentines day. 


However, one of the 'talks' happened in late may but nothing ever came of it (this was the lead up to the most current D-Day). Maybe it was an attempted lead in to having her summer free from me and work to spend time with POSOM. 

She does like spending Xmas with me, guess I gave better gifts lol

Its been reallllly quite on that end though. The storms a brewing


----------



## unbe

Update:

Nothing to report really. Things are quite, life is in progress. Starting to adapt to my new 'normal'

Still looking for a new job, no luck yet.

Curbed the dating for now although Monto and Wood are still in the picture, just not sweating it anymore. It is was it is and that's all it should be.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> They did not last till may, both seemed to end just after valentines day.
> 
> 
> However, *one of the 'talks' happened in late may* but nothing ever came of it (this was the lead up to the most current D-Day). Maybe it was an attempted lead in to having her summer free from me and work to spend time with POSOM.
> 
> She does like spending Xmas with me, guess I gave better gifts lol
> 
> Its been reallllly quite on that end though. The storms a brewing


Was that when you tried to come back as Unbe20 and got banned? LOL right after you admitted 

to being the same person but lost email / password? Somebody upstairs wanted an ego boost.....

She always liked the summers with you.... just saying. Be aware.... when you least expect it..... yeah.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Was that when you tried to come back as Unbe20 and got banned? LOL right after you admitted
> 
> to being the same person but lost email / password? Somebody upstairs wanted an ego boost.....
> 
> She always liked the summers with you.... just saying. Be aware.... when you least expect it..... yeah.


exactly chuck, that was it.

She always did enjoy the summers, who can blame her. She enjoyed the fruits on my labors while relaxing in the sun doing god knows what while I was at work...

Im such an ass....


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> exactly chuck, that was it.
> 
> She always did enjoy the summers, who can blame her. She enjoyed the fruits on my labors while relaxing in the sun doing god knows what while I was at work...
> 
> Im such an ass....


Getting a tan for Unbe..... or her next "interest" 

I used to be a slave to the public school system.... summers were counted down in early January

During the summer.... did she help out more around the house.... chores, cooking, etc?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Getting a tan for Unbe..... or her next "interest"
> 
> I used to be a slave to the public school system.... summers were counted down in early January
> 
> During the summer.... did she help out more around the house.... chores, cooking, etc?


Not at all chuck, she was supposingly "working" some weeks at training classes for most of the summer.


----------



## Chuck71

Working was true..... on what...... different story


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> exactly chuck, that was it.
> 
> 
> 
> She always did enjoy the summers, who can blame her. She enjoyed the fruits on my labors while relaxing in the sun doing god knows what while I was at work...
> 
> 
> 
> Im such an ass....



You are an ass. 

I can see it in your profile pic. 

I've seen better looking asses. 

The one on current GF comes to mind; as well as the one in my avatar. 

Much better looking. 

But don't think for a second that your an ass for expecting your wife to be truthful and honest as well as honorable. 

You did what you were supposed to do. She didn't. 

Now you know. 

Move on. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> You are an ass.
> 
> I can see it in your profile pic.
> 
> I've seen better looking asses.
> 
> The one on current GF comes to mind; as well as the one in my avatar.
> 
> Much better looking.
> 
> But don't think for a second that your an ass for expecting your wife to be truthful and honest as well as honorable.
> 
> You did what you were supposed to do. She didn't.
> 
> Now you know.
> 
> Move on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The part that makes unbe an ass is refusing to acknowledge what Matchbox so clearly is - no matter how many times she shows him.


----------



## Chuck71

You can't fix other people..... he!! most people can't fix themselves so WTF try others?

You think if you fix them..... then they'll fix you?? LOL 

Too much Little House on the Prairie


----------



## Ceegee

ReturntoZero said:


> The part that makes unbe an ass is refusing to acknowledge what Matchbox so clearly is - no matter how many times she shows him.



That's on her. 

He needs to learn who he is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> That's on her.
> 
> He needs to learn who he is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Unbe needs to learn that when people clearly show him who they are, he must believe them.


----------



## Chuck71

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe needs to learn that when people clearly show him who they are, he must believe them.


Believe Unbe will.... only after enough suffering


----------



## unbe

It's not that I don't believe what I see...its that I attempted to manipulate and mold MB into what I wanted.

I'm
An
Ass


----------



## unbe

I can also see this trait being an issue in future relationships...

The only way I see addressing it for the future is recognizing when its happening and either accepting the flaw/non unbeism or moving on. I tend to believe moving on will be my default...


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> It's not that I don't believe what I see...its that I attempted to manipulate and mold MB into what I wanted.
> 
> I'm
> An
> Ass


As a teenager does...... she rebels.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> It's not that I don't believe what I see...its that I attempted to manipulate and mold MB into what I wanted.
> 
> I'm
> An
> Ass


Nice guys aren't nice at all.

They're manipulative jackasses who overestimate the factors they control.

They end up bitter, angry, and alone - with no personal power.

All because those #3's seemed like such great ideas at the time.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Chuck71 said:


> Believe Unbe will.... only after enough suffering


Is Unbe sick and tired of being sick and tired?

Only Unbe knows.


----------



## unbe

Update:

As sure as the days are long, MB strikes again.

As far as I last knew, MB was living around 45 miles away back at her parents home. 

This morning I was getting coffee at a DD around the corner from my home, as I am leaving I see MB's car pull up been driven by OM (not the lawyer). Im pretty sure its an old boyfriend (the same I caught her emailing very early on in our relationship). Anyway he walks into DD and I approvach the passeneger window.

knock knock- mb looks like shes seen a ghost

Unbe: Hi there! How are you
MB: Good (cowering)
Unbe: Thats great, whos that, a friend?
MB: Yes
Unbe: Lol, dont worry its ok. Good luck!
MB: Thank you

OM comes back out

Unbe: Hey buddy, nice to meet you. Good luck! (with a smirk on my face)
OM: I dont know you..Fck this, Fck that as hes walking away
Unbe: Smile ear to ear as he walks back to his car

So far my count is Unbe 2- MB 0

My concern is this:

Why is she in my neighborhood. She knows I work on Sundays and was most likely heading to the house for something which I am not cool with, especially with OM in tow.

I did change the locks but still...Is it time for an RO?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Is Unbe sick and tired of being sick and tired?
> 
> Only Unbe knows.


YES!


----------



## turnera

If she can't get in, she can't get in. If she breaks a window or something, go for the RO. Or press charges.


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> If she can't get in, she can't get in. If she breaks a window or something, go for the RO. Or press charges.


Ok, apparently all is well. Had by pop run over to check on things. I was more worried about the dog being kidnapped again, I had my dog sitter go get him.


----------



## Chuck71

LOL ....... as Cyndi Lauper sang back in the mid-80s.... "True Colors"

Guy hugs up north to you Unbe.... keep this episode in back of your mind when she slithers back.....

And Unbe...... from your 2014 and 2015 posts you were losing someone special.....

Must've been someone else.....


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> LOL ....... as Cyndi Lauper sang back in the mid-80s.... "True Colors"
> 
> Guy hugs up north to you Unbe.... keep this episode in back of your mind when she slithers back.....
> 
> And Unbe...... from your 2014 and 2015 posts you were losing someone special.....
> 
> Must've been someone else.....


Chuck,

Explains why I haven't heard from her yet. I give it 3 months, then the show will begin. Need to drive home the D now while the new fog has blown over.

Hopefully, the D will be final by then.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71;15190609
And Unbe...... from your 2014 and 2015 posts you were losing someone special.....
Must've been someone else.....[/QUOTE said:


> Clearly, it was my perception of what I wanted MB to be, not who she is.
> 
> When people show you who they are, believe them!


----------



## Chuck71

Who knows when but.... it's when.... not "if"

You did something that I would do..... I'd prolly laugh more and.... be a tad sarcastic.... but that's me.

She will wonder.... WTF does my Mr. Fixer Unbe seem like he's having a great time... WITHOUT me.....

The more mysterious and c0cksure you are.... the more she becomes attracted to you.

Your goal is to get the D done ASAP.... what's done after the D is..... well not here yet


----------



## ReturntoZero

Chuck71 said:


> Who knows when but.... it's when.... not "if"
> 
> You did something that I would do..... I'd prolly laugh more and.... be a tad sarcastic.... but that's me.
> 
> She will wonder.... WTF does my Mr. Fixer Unbe seem like he's having a great time... WITHOUT me.....
> 
> The more mysterious and c0cksure you are.... the more she becomes attracted to you.
> 
> Your goal is to get the D done ASAP.... what's done after the D is..... well not here yet


Live in THIS moment.

Make the most of it.

What is Unbe going to do for Unbe today?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Who knows when but.... it's when.... not "if"
> 
> You did something that I would do..... I'd prolly laugh more and.... be a tad sarcastic.... but that's me.
> 
> She will wonder.... WTF does my Mr. Fixer Unbe seem like he's having a great time... WITHOUT me.....
> 
> The more mysterious and c0cksure you are.... the more she becomes attracted to you.
> 
> Your goal is to get the D done ASAP.... what's done after the D is..... well not here yet


I have one goal in mind...push this through and get the most I can while the fog is there!


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Live in THIS moment.
> 
> Make the most of it.
> 
> What is Unbe going to do for Unbe today?


Well, Unbe has plans to see Monto tonight. She asked me yesterday. 

Seems like today will be another banner day in Unbe's world.

Alot of banner days lately in my world...


----------



## Chuck71

Remember..... Unbe is not free every time she asks. You will be tied up this Thurs-Sunday.

It's the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament. Aka.... guy time.....


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Remember..... Unbe is not free every time she asks. You will be tied up this Thurs-Sunday.
> 
> It's the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament. Aka.... guy time.....


this goes without saying! plus i run a pool that i hand score lol


----------



## unbe

Damn, today really messed me up. I'm acknowledging it and feeling the pain. I was hoping I was passed this, guess I was wrong.

I have no desire to reach out and I have no doubt I handled the meeting perfectly. I still can't seem to get it out of my mind.

Had dinner with monto and that was a great distraction. The second that was over thought it crept back in.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Damn, today really messed me up. I'm acknowledging it and feeling the pain. I was hoping I was passed this, guess I was wrong.
> 
> I have no desire to reach out and I have no doubt I handled the meeting perfectly. I still can't seem to get it out of my mind.
> 
> Had dinner with monto and that was a great distraction. The second that was over thought it crept back in.


Did Monto pay her own way?


----------



## Ceegee

ReturntoZero said:


> Did Monto pay her own way?



Yeah right. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Damn, today really messed me up. I'm acknowledging it and feeling the pain. I was hoping I was passed this, guess I was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no desire to reach out and I have no doubt I handled the meeting perfectly. I still can't seem to get it out of my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Had dinner with monto and that was a great distraction. The second that was over thought it crept back in.



Dude, sometimes we don't get passed it. 

But that's just a part of us. 

Parts of us want to remember and that's ok. 

Acknowledge that part of yourself. 

Love that part of yourself. 

It's just a part of you. 

Do you recognize "parts" of yourself?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

A D is like a war.... most of the time, one side wins, one side loses.

Sometimes it's a draw. But every single time... you will have casualties.

I've been D three years.... I was flipping through channels other day,

there it was..... SNL 11/3/12. I never missed Seth Myers Weekend Update.

That night I did.... it was my DDay. Well it was on the tele where I was that

night but I was not paying any attention. I did catch it on re-runs couple

months later. But even the other day.... it still triggered me. Three years 

later. Again..... every war has casualties. You just try to minimize.

I even saw the Christmas episode with Martin Short. Another trigger, just 

not as bad. Course I did see the one with Timberlake a few months later.....

March 2013.... the one UG and I watched after pinning her ears behind her 

head. Always darkest before the dawn.....


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Did Monto pay her own way?


No sir, she did not. She has offered in the past to pay one of which I did take her up on. Tonight she did not


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> Yeah right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## unbe

Feeling a little better than yesterday. 

Woke up to see that MB changed all the log ins for the mortgage for some reason. Our agreement was I was to make the payments on the mortgage while living in the house until we sold it. No quite sure how I will be able to do this now without being able to log in (reminder her name is on the mortgage only, we are both on the deed). Was tempted to reach out and ask why but will continue to stay dark.

I find this no coincidence that this happens the day after I see her around the block from the house. 

Whats brewing guys???

I'm awaiting a call back from my lawyer...The troops are lining up at the gate. I sense a war a brewing


----------



## Chuck71

Stand still and observe..... it won't be long....

I know this breaks your heart, not being able to pay the mortgage LOL

What day is the mortgage due?


----------



## AVR1962

How long after your divorce did you meet your second wife? How about her? Could she have rebounded and thought she was in love with all the hormones rushing and then woke up and realized she had been blind to love? This is typical of a rebound. If this is the case on her part she is probably trying but just does not have the feelings for you like she did when those hormones were racing.

Don't feel like a failure for going thru a second divorce. Seek healing and counseling for yourself to put your life back together and perhaps figure out what it was that went wrong, how you can prevent that in the future.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Stand still and observe..... it won't be long....
> 
> I know this breaks your heart, not being able to pay the mortgage LOL
> 
> What day is the mortgage due?


Its due the 10th of every month. I just made the payment.

What I am concerned with is her showing up with her sht expecting me to get out. Which I suspect is coming soon....


----------



## Chuck71

Well..... I guess the OM wouldn't be stopping by with you there!!!

You have as much right to be in that house as she does.

If you have personal items there.... may need to store them someplace else J/I/C

Let her make the next move..... you know she will


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Well..... I guess the OM wouldn't be stopping by with you there!!!
> 
> You have as much right to be in that house as she does.
> 
> If you have personal items there.... may need to store them someplace else J/I/C
> 
> Let her make the next move..... you know she will


Indeed Chuck. As of now, she has no access to the house because I changed the locks. She most likely found that fact out yesterday on her attempt to get something (perhaps the journal or the dog).

Should be an interesting upcoming week...


----------



## Chuck71

Watch out for broken window to gain access. Granted... if she wanted in, you would have to let her.

Sound crazy? 1-MB knows you will clean up the broken glass
2-Cold weather and broken glass make for chilly nights

God forbid she break a window to gain access and you just happen to conk her in the head with a fireplace poker LMAO


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Watch out for broken window to gain access. Granted... if she wanted in, you would have to let her.
> 
> Sound crazy? 1-MB knows you will clean up the broken glass
> 2-Cold weather and broken glass make for chilly nights
> 
> God forbid she break a window to gain access and you just happen to conk her in the head with a fireplace poker LMAO


Think it may be time for cameras....


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> Our agreement was I was to make the payments on the mortgage while living in the house until we sold it.


Written or verbal?


----------



## Chuck71

Buy a couple pair of panties at the mall

wash them.... leave them neatly folded on the W/D.....

Oh.... duck LOL


----------



## Chuck71

ThreeStrikes said:


> Written or verbal?


Written


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Better pay it the old fashioned way, then. With a check in the mail.

Or pay it with your bank's online bill-pay.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Written or verbal?


It was written and agreed upon through email. I have it all documented and it is with my lawyer.

It is also stated on the settlement papers however we are still going back and forth on them so they aren't firmed up yet.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Better pay it the old fashioned way, then. With a check in the mail.
> 
> Or pay it with your bank's online bill-pay.


I can call and make phone payments but that's not the point really. 

Why change the passwords, email and log in information to begin with?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> It was written and agreed upon through email. I have it all documented and it is with my lawyer.
> 
> It is also stated on the settlement papers however we are still going back and forth on them so they aren't firmed up yet.


Always live up to your end of the deal.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> I can call and make phone payments but that's not the point really.
> 
> Why change the passwords, email and log in information to begin with?


Payback for changing the locks.

Pretend it never happened, and don't bring it up with her.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Payback for changing the locks.
> 
> Pretend it never happened, and don't bring it up with her.


wasn't planning on it...she will not get a direct reaction out of me

Now my lawyer may be another story


----------



## Chuck71

Asking her why would result in a 2x4 drop


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Asking her why would result in a 2x4 drop


Ive wised up to the MB attention attempts. I wont be fooled


----------



## Chuck71

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgubG-MOPT4


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I can call and make phone payments but that's not the point really.
> 
> Why change the passwords, email and log in information to begin with?


Unbe,

Remember the golden rule

People do that which they want to do.

They don't do that which they do not wish to do.

It's no more complicated than that, but we codependents ALWAYS want to play Captain Obvious.


----------



## unbe

so i was shaking yesterday for hours after the encounter...felt emotions of anger, anxiousness and betrayal

Today I am still feeling anger but have gone into survival mode. Still awaiting call back from lawyer. 

I'm pretty sure I could have gone my whole life without ever having to see that....I haven't processed why God put that on me as of yet. Hoping the answer comes soon...


----------



## turnera

When's your next therapy appointment?


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> When's your next therapy appointment?


Had a phone session today, next appt is Sunday


----------



## Chuck71

Invite your IC over... watch Round 2 of NCAAs. Nothing like beer, pizza and IC.

There will come a day..... you will see MB and whoever in a pic.... on FB or whatever... and you will laugh.

One of the guys who helped me when I came here said he did... and said I would too someday.

Now Unbe.... I'm telling you the same thing.


----------



## unbe

Update:

From the begning I could tell things were kinda off with Monto, was quite distant, trust issues..something. Well today I found out what it was.

We had been out around 6 times and were planning to go skiing this weekend. Well yesterday she disappeared again and wasn't communicating. Texted me late last night saying she was busy and we would talk today.

Turns out she is getting back together with an X bf that she must have dated after her D. My guess, she reconnected with him about 3 weeks ago altough she claims it was a phone call yesterday that brought this on. I was born at night, not last night!

While I appreciate not being strung along and second guessing myself, it still hurts to be rejected again.

50k view:

1- Among-st other reasons why I shouldnt be getting serious or even having the thought of being serious is I am not prepared for ANY pain that may be associated with a relationship. Leaves me very vulnerable to a possible MB strike.

2- Monto tried to show me who she was several times and I kept making EXCUSES for her. This lesson must get learned sooner rather than later and ingrained in my DNA prior to me considering dating again.

Positive take aways:

Monto gave me my confidence back in regards to being able to pick up girls again.

Indirectly provided me with the strength to meet with MB a few weeks ago and show a strong UNBE.

She came into my life for a reason, I believe those where the reasons. 


Back to the D...

Installed video cameras yesterday at the home. Team Unbe did not return my calls yesterday, I need to get him on the phone.


----------



## Chuck71

Good observation! The furniture she still had wrapped up at her dad's house.... that wasn't from the D.

That was her recently moving to her dad's after living with her post-D b/f. Now they're back together.

Be glad that is not you.


----------



## unbe

Ladies and Gents, I am ready...

I am ready to stop hurting

I am ready to start growing

I am ready to stop being a doormat

I have officially hit bottom....

Its time to stat listening to everything be said here, not just pieces of what I want.

TAMers, help me!

I ask you show me the way once again...


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Ladies and Gents, I am ready...
> 
> I am ready to stop hurting
> 
> I am ready to start growing
> 
> I am ready to stop being a doormat
> 
> I have officially hit bottom....
> 
> Its time to stat listening to everything be said here, not just pieces of what I want.
> 
> TAMers, help me!
> 
> I ask you show me the way once again...


No. 

You know the way, and have been shown the way.

Then you have slipped your toe towards going the way, while trying to convince TAM you are all in.

Lying to yourself is a terrible thing, Unbe.

The funny thing is, going the way does not involve anything more than honestly and truly loving yourself.

I asked you this once before, Unbe. I am asking again.

Why do you not love yourself?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

The reason we guys..... and Turnera kept saying slow the F down on the dating.

You wanted to replace MB with.... another MB. Good bet Monto would have been ripe for a MB II casting.

You'd get D in a year, M in the three months after D. Same movie.... different actress.

There are too many things a guy can do to not involve women. Volunteer, sports bar, car show,

gym. No you don't have to be ripped to go to a gym, nor a car expert to attend a car show, nor a sports

nut to attend a sports bar. Define YOU. Do not define yourself by OLD. OLD is a crap shoot.

If you want to continue OLD.... try this.... let the women come to you. Far less games and BS.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> No.
> 
> You know the way, and have been shown the way.
> 
> Then you have slipped your toe towards going the way, while trying to convince TAM you are all in.
> 
> Lying to yourself is a terrible thing, Unbe.
> 
> The funny thing is, going the way does not involve anything more than honestly and truly loving yourself.
> 
> I asked you this once before, Unbe. I am asking again.
> 
> Why do you not love yourself?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I took pieces of what I thought I needed from TAM and continued with other parts of me not realizing it was all in or all out.

I have never loved myself, always thought I wasn't good enough. Not quite good enough in sports, not quite good enough in school. Always a #2 guy in business (although successful). I haven't been happy in my job, marriage, life, ever. I over extend myself, try and act like a high roller with all extravagant things while in the background barely hanging on. I am currently wearing a fake rolex, this is what Im about. Its all fake. Its all a front. 

I do have really great friends who support me and see the real me, those are the only people I can truly be myself around. Everyone else, its a show.

Not loving myself can stem back from the way I was raised, in a non loving environment. Parents never showed love, had no relationship with my bro and sis. Even now its a very damaged and limited relationship will all of them. 

I ran to outlets such as gambling to find some sort of control and rush. I have gambled in years but now it seems I may be turning to drinking during this time (something of which I never did prior, ever).

Its dangerous territory for me right now, I recognize this.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> The reason we guys..... and Turnera kept saying slow the F down on the dating.
> 
> You wanted to replace MB with.... another MB. Good bet Monto would have been ripe for a MB II casting.
> 
> You'd get D in a year, M in the three months after D. Same movie.... different actress.
> 
> There are too many things a guy can do to not involve women. Volunteer, sports bar, car show,
> 
> gym. No you don't have to be ripped to go to a gym, nor a car expert to attend a car show, nor a sports
> 
> nut to attend a sports bar. Define YOU. Do not define yourself by OLD. OLD is a crap shoot.
> 
> If you want to continue OLD.... try this.... let the women come to you. Far less games and BS.


Chuck,

My main problem is this. I have never been alone...I dont know how to act accordingly. All dating needs to stop and this point. I can not present the best Unbe now, I dont even know what that should look like. Also, I can not handle any more rejection in my life. 

Doesn't really matter why Monto left, could be X bf, could be me smothering, could be both. She very easily could have been the next MB and I would have been back here in 10 years. If that happens again I fear that I could never rebound again. 

My focus now needs to be on getting past this D and not weakening during this time. The OLD was supposed to provide a distraction for me while keeping me focused on this purpose, not provide setbacks which may prevent me from pushing it forward. Thats exactly how I feel now and its not good...What is good is that I recognize that's why I'm feeling this way and I wont allow it to stop the progress or allow myself to run back to a situations where I know its only going to damage me further. 

The saying the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know applies here however I don't want to be involved with ANY devils. Thats the mindset I need to keep....


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> I took pieces of what I thought I needed from TAM and continued with other parts of me not realizing it was all in or all out.
> 
> I have never loved myself, always thought I wasn't good enough. Not quite good enough in sports, not quite good enough in school. Always a #2 guy in business (although successful). I haven't been happy in my job, marriage, life, ever. I over extend myself, try and act like a high roller with all extravagant things while in the background barely hanging on. I am currently wearing a fake rolex, this is what Im about. Its all fake. Its all a front.
> 
> I do have really great friends who support me and see the real me, those are the only people I can truly be myself around. Everyone else, its a show.
> 
> Not loving myself can stem back from the way I was raised, in a non loving environment. Parents never showed love, had no relationship with my bro and sis. Even now its a very damaged and limited relationship will all of them.
> 
> I ran to outlets such as gambling to find some sort of control and rush. I have gambled in years but now it seems I may be turning to drinking during this time (something of which I never did prior, ever).
> 
> Its dangerous territory for me right now, I recognize this.


Who's expectations are you falling short of?

Who is this mystical person in the sky that makes the finish line one inch farther than Unbe is actually achieving?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> Who's expectations are you falling short of?
> 
> Who is this mystical person in the sky that makes the finish line one inch farther than Unbe is actually achieving?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I think once I find the answer to that will be the day I can finally be set free.


----------



## synthetic

> Not loving myself can stem back from the way I was raised, in a non loving environment. Parents never showed love, had no relationship with my bro and sis. Even now its a very damaged and limited relationship will all of them.


Print this and put it on your fridge.

Then read this again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again

http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> I think once I find the answer to that will be the day I can finally be set free.


You.

You are the one setting the unrealistic expectations.

And why?

Confirmation bias. To confirm your feelings of being inadequate, you are deliberately setting the bar just out of reach.

Because you are comfortable there. 

Because this is what you have felt you deserve for so long that you have forgotten how to do anything else.

Unbe, God has given all of us gifts. Now is the time to find your gift, and hone it. You likely already know what that gift is. 

You don't have to be the best in the world to let it fill you with joy. Put that gift to work. See the joy it brings in others.

Every morning when you wake up, say to yourself while looking in the mirror:

I am a good person. I deserve good things. I have value.

In fact, tape it to the mirror you use for shaving.

When I get home tonight, I will post the things I have had on my mirror for the last 18 months.

It sounds corny. But they help.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> Not loving myself can stem back from the way I was raised, in a non loving environment. Parents never showed love, had no relationship with my bro and sis. Even now its a very damaged and limited relationship will all of them.


Well, here it is. The SOLE source of all the problems in your life. It's going to take YEARS of consistent therapy with a good IC to strip away everything you've done in your life, until nothing is left of you except "my parents didn't love me, thus I am unloveable" - at which point you will have to FIGHT that false notion (even if it's true that they didn't love you, it does NOT mean you are unloveABLE).

And that fight is going to take you YEARS, to rewire your brain, to learn that it has nothing to do with whether you are unloveable or loveable. Maybe religion will help you; it's helped a lot of people find acceptance and worth. Maybe something else will be needed. Awareness is a great book to be reading. For rewiring your brain, I recommend Emotional Alchemy.

The first thing I always recommend people in your place is to start volunteering somewhere. It takes your mind off of YOU, it opens your eyes to other people and their plights, it gives you some self-worth, it helps the world, and it passes the time as you work on yourself.

Most of all, you need to learn to be ok BY YOURSELF. Sitting in a room, with nothing to do, nobody to talk to, nothing to do to brag about. Start going on hikes. Start camping out and fishing. Ride a bike. Start doing things that require you being alone and learning to enjoy it. When you start getting scared about sitting at home at night all alone and feel pressured to call your ex or go see friends, or go to a bar...FIGHT THAT URGE. Just sit. With a book, with a craft, a jigsaw puzzle, a chess board...learn to be ok alone.

IMO, THAT is what you need the most right now.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Have you read Siddartha?

By the way, your life isn't so bad. You're still young, have your health, and have a steady income.

Stop seeking happiness in things and people. You will always be let down.

Instead, seek contentment.

Regarding the rejection: As I stated in an earlier post, you have NO IDEA what the other gal is looking for in a guy, but you can be sure it is rooted in her FOO. Don't take it personally when a fledgeling relationship doesn't work out.


----------



## turnera

farsidejunky said:


> You don't have to be the best in the world to let it fill you with joy. Put that gift to work. See the joy it brings in others.
> 
> Every morning when you wake up, say to yourself while looking in the mirror:
> 
> I am a good person. I deserve good things. I have value.
> 
> In fact, tape it to the mirror you use for shaving.
> 
> It sounds corny. But they help.


That's exactly the advice my IC gave me: tape your positive mantras to your bathroom mirror, and say them out loud to yourself every single day.

It really helps.

And you don't have to be 'great' at anything. You just have to love life, enjoy life, and do only things that make you happy. (with the exception of your job, maybe, you know, cos you have to eat)


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe.... did you ever collect ball cards? Those are my go-to. Even after 30+ years. No you don't have to get a card / set worth $1500 to get a rush. I get nearly the same rush from a $5 card / set as I do one worth $500.

You were born in 1976? 1977? Check out sets from Topps made the year you were born. When I bought the 1971 Topps baseball set... that meant something. These were cards which were made when I was a mustard pooping baby!

I made it a point to build some sets from boxes back in 2013, soon after my D. I already had the sets but I built these to occupy my mind. I had a blast. I would say I had $500 in the cards and sold them for $600. But Chuck.... you made $100 but how many hours did you put in? Lord... plenty! So it was not financially feasible. True BUT it occupied my mind and I received a rush from it (yes huge dopamine rush).

Try animal shelters... you're a dog lover. Soup kitchen.... tutor kids in subjects you are skilled at. If there are elderly people in your area, offer to help. Mow their yard, trim bushes. You'd be shocked at what it means to those who are up in years. BTW... them women CAN cook! Part of reason I need to lose 15 @#$%^%$ pounds.

Lastly.... volunteer with disabled children / adults. I know first hand about this being a (once) special education teacher. I was in special ed before my botched brain surgery. Cognitive... no, behavior... ohhh yeah!

I draw from the botched surgery to this day. Controlled rage. Guess what... sometimes it doesn't come out as controlled. Ever get so mad you think you can smell yourself? Watching those kids / adults give it their all, 110%, reminds me..... you are here for a #$%^ reason. A hug can make their day.

Yes there have been a handful of females that led me to drop a few tears.... but nothing compared to these children / adults. I almost want to beat the schit out of myself for thinking I have gotten a raw deal at life.

Or.... you could always become a writer. Course then you go through a psychoanalysis of yourself you never realized. Why do you think most of the great writers have drinking issues?


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> Well, here it is. The SOLE source of all the problems in your life. It's going to take YEARS of consistent therapy with a good IC to strip away everything you've done in your life, until nothing is left of you except "my parents didn't love me, thus I am unloveable" - at which point you will have to FIGHT that false notion (even if it's true that they didn't love you, it does NOT mean you are unloveABLE).
> 
> And that fight is going to take you YEARS, to rewire your brain, to learn that it has nothing to do with whether you are unloveable or loveable. Maybe religion will help you; it's helped a lot of people find acceptance and worth. Maybe something else will be needed. Awareness is a great book to be reading. For rewiring your brain, I recommend Emotional Alchemy.
> 
> The first thing I always recommend people in your place is to start volunteering somewhere. It takes your mind off of YOU, it opens your eyes to other people and their plights, it gives you some self-worth, it helps the world, and it passes the time as you work on yourself.
> 
> Most of all, you need to learn to be ok BY YOURSELF. Sitting in a room, with nothing to do, nobody to talk to, nothing to do to brag about. Start going on hikes. Start camping out and fishing. Ride a bike. Start doing things that require you being alone and learning to enjoy it. When you start getting scared about sitting at home at night all alone and feel pressured to call your ex or go see friends, or go to a bar...FIGHT THAT URGE. Just sit. With a book, with a craft, a jigsaw puzzle, a chess board...learn to be ok alone.
> 
> IMO, THAT is what you need the most right now.


Tunera,

I am ordering that book today. While I agree with you and everyone I encounter, everyone says the same thing. I need to be alone. 

I think I need to change my screen name to Jerry McGuire. The thought of being alone scares the S outta me. 

Getting involved in public service does sound like a great idea. Im researching it now. I would volunteer for my Pastor the only draw back is that its MB's church and there would be a strong possibility of me running into her so thats out.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Have you read Siddartha?
> 
> By the way, your life isn't so bad. You're still young, have your health, and have a steady income.
> 
> Stop seeking happiness in things and people. You will always be let down.
> 
> Instead, seek contentment.
> 
> Regarding the rejection: As I stated in an earlier post, you have NO IDEA what the other gal is looking for in a guy, but you can be sure it is rooted in her FOO. Don't take it personally when a fledgeling relationship doesn't work out.


Thanks 3x, some good advice and great encouragement here. 

I see FOO refereed to alot, what does this mean?


----------



## turnera

It means family of origin. Meaning what happened to you growing up IS why you became who you are. It's impossible for it not to. So you have to address that in IC. For example, I told my IC my first memories and her reply was 'So you were taught not to complain, to make sure everyone else was happy, and you didn't matter.' Yep, about sums up my life - and who I thus became.

I volunteer at a place that spruces up poor peoples' houses in our city - painting, clearing out trash, gardening...things that many poor people have just given up on. It helps them get a leg up, but it also improves the value of my city. (plus I love to garden, lol)

Another favorite of mine is Habitat for Humanity. If you don't know, poor people sign up, work to build houses for other people and rack up 'points.' Once they've put in enough hours, they are due for a new house of their own. And of course other people like you and I volunteer to help build them.


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Tunera,
> 
> I am ordering that book today. While I agree with you and everyone I encounter, everyone says the same thing. I need to be alone.
> 
> I think I need to change my screen name to Jerry McGuire. The thought of being alone scares the S outta me.
> 
> Getting involved in public service does sound like a great idea. Im researching it now. I would volunteer for my Pastor the only draw back is that its MB's church and there would be a strong possibility of me running into her so thats out.


Find a new church. Stop making excuses.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## ThreeStrikes

farsidejunky said:


> Find a new church. Stop making excuses.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Yeah. Don't go to the same church.

Cut her out of your life in every way possible.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> . I would volunteer for my Pastor the only draw back is that its MB's church and there would be a strong possibility of me running into her so thats out.


Wow.... not too many things I won't do but being M and laying up with someone else AND attending my church

IS one. Your pastor needs 15 Mother Teresa's. 

The humor you can pull out of this is..... MB will never think she id anything wrong.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Yeah. Don't go to the same church.
> 
> Cut her out of your life in every way possible.


I dont attend the church, I do have a relationship with the pastor though. We talk, go to lunch, etc...


----------



## Chuck71

Then keep him with you. He understands. He's already told you how she is.

He may can help you in ways an IC can not.


----------



## ReturntoZero

ThreeStrikes said:


> Yeah. Don't go to the same church.
> 
> Cut her out of your life in every way possible.


Only a masochist would go to the same church with so many other options available.


----------



## Ceegee

ReturntoZero said:


> Only a masochist would go to the same church with so many other options available.



Or someone still playing the "pick me" game. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

Usually.... the one who attended longest, gets the cross.

2nd love asked me to go back in '91..... she already was going there. When we split....

I left. Only fair. Yes I kept in touch with pastor. He had a 8-4 job through the week.

Talk about being "called" ...... yeah


----------



## unbe

Neither truly attended tbh...I kept the relationship with him...MB doesn't need anyones help remember lol


----------



## unbe

Update:

Been a busy few days just running around living life...

Heard from the lawyer today, Mb wants me to move out and she wants to come back. Obv thats not happening so well see where this takes us. 

This is the last piece holding back the agreement...Once the temp living situation is settled we can process everything, list the home and get this over with. 

Ncaa will keep me busy for the next few weeks which is good. I will be signed up to volunteer somewhere by 4/1. I am reviewing whats out there to get a feel for what I could help with and actually be good at.


----------



## Chuck71

If the home is to be sold..... WTF she wanting to move back into it?

What may be unfolding is she wants back into the home, will put it on market for 150% home's value....

it never sells.... D is done n over. And Unbe doesn't get his 50%

You take her to court for your 50% shared equity.... this can drag out until 2030.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> If the home is to be sold..... WTF she wanting to move back into it?
> 
> What may be unfolding is she wants back into the home, will put it on market for 150% home's value....
> 
> it never sells.... D is done n over. And Unbe doesn't get his 50%
> 
> You take her to court for your 50% shared equity.... this can drag out until 2030.


Its putting a strain on her health commuting so far...poor MB. 

I am not moving out!


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Its putting a strain on her health commuting so far...poor MB.
> 
> I am not moving out!


Ahhh...... fvck her! Let her flavor of the week rub her feet.

By staying at the house...... you gave yourself a huge leverage. God knows you need it in court.

Has she done the most minute thing in regards to putting it up for sale?

How is her credit? You had her driving a car in your name couple years ago......

One more thing..... she might not care to put it up for sale IF she gets ALL the equity.

She doesn't want you to get $2.31 from it. Unlike the last two times.... it's time to schit in

her playhouse.


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> Ncaa will keep me busy for the next few weeks which is good. I will be signed up to volunteer somewhere by 4/1. I am reviewing whats out there to get a feel for what I could help with and actually be good at.


You know what else is REALLY needed and few people volunteer for? Tutoring kids - junior high and high school. I've done it off and on and I truly think that helping kids learn that learning is fun and ok to do---the most important thing in the world.

Schools are ALWAYS looking for volunteer tutors. Never enough around.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Ahhh...... fvck her! Let her flavor of the week rub her feet.
> 
> By staying at the house...... you gave yourself a huge leverage. God knows you need it in court.
> 
> Has she done the most minute thing in regards to putting it up for sale?
> 
> How is her credit? You had her driving a car in your name couple years ago......
> 
> One more thing..... she might not care to put it up for sale IF she gets ALL the equity.
> 
> She doesn't want you to get $2.31 from it. Unlike the last two times.... it's time to schit in
> 
> her playhouse.


Chuck,

I think you are overestimating MB

She doesn't know the first thing about being an adult!

This will be 10000% on me to get this house sold. The second I have an agreement in place with MB in regards to the debt, living arrangement, etc....it's going up.

The equity isn't in question...its being split. 

I will list it at FMV based on comps in the area, we have a very good realtor. 

In no way, shape or form will I allow myself to be taken advantage of financially. Work too damn hard for that!


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> You know what else is REALLY needed and few people volunteer for? Tutoring kids - junior high and high school. I've done it off and on and I truly think that helping kids learn that learning is fun and ok to do---the most important thing in the world.
> 
> Schools are ALWAYS looking for volunteer tutors. Never enough around.


I was thinking that...maybe MBs school can use a hand lol


----------



## unbe

Todays update:

Im missing being married....

Met a girl last night, one thing led to another and we wound up back at her place. I couldnt go through with it however....

Ive got alot to work through....ALOT


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Ok. So get to work.

What book are you reading? 

How are you filling your down time?

Why hasn't your IC discussed your FOO issues? (How did you not know what that is????)

Are you reading any other threads here? Do you give advice?

There comes a point when we start to wonder if you are really here to grow, or just vent.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Ok. So get to work.
> 
> What book are you reading?
> 
> How are you filling your down time?
> 
> Why hasn't your IC discussed your FOO issues? (How did you not know what that is????)
> 
> Are you reading any other threads here? Do you give advice?
> 
> There comes a point when we start to wonder if you are really here to grow, or just vent.



Im reading co dependent no more, I read the "Do you love to be needed or need to be loved" article nightly as well.

I am in the middle of a few threads and I do comment on new ones that open up frequently (i find this helps tremendously)

I do discuss FOO issues with my threapist (i just didn't know what the acronym meant, but the issues are discussed)


What Im failing at is filling my down time...I mean I clean the house, do laundry, run errands, spend time with the dog but not much else.
I do go to my best friends house often just to sit around and be around people who care about me. Probably do that once a week.

I have no motivation to find a hobby. I am immersed in trying to find a new job right now. I really feel I need to completely reboot. I am however concerned if I leave now there will be no one driving the home sale and it will just stay in limbo forever. 

I do use this forum to vent, no question. However that doesn't mean I do not WANT to grow. I certainly want to become a better man from this. The only thing worse than going through this would be to go through it and not grow from it.

I am sad, I am hurting. I do not want to be either!

I know its all up to me to get out of this rut...If i can only put as much effort into myself as I did trying to win over MB.


----------



## turnera

For downtime, set up a jigsaw puzzle near your tv, and work on it when you have nothing to do. Get some crossword puzzle books. Set up a chess set. Do online gaming with other people for that connection. Start learning how to do something; one guy here learned how to make knives, and now he's selling them!


----------



## Chuck71

Man rule #14,792.... never make a first date when the NCAA tournament is on!

First dates can be anytime.... the 2016 March Madness happens only one time!

Invite GUYS over.... drink, fart, burp, scratch yourself.... (why women can't enjoy this is beyond me LOL)

or hit a sports bar. Drink... fine, get a taxi. Or get a room nearby.


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> Man rule #14,792.... never make a first date when the NCAA tournament is on!
> 
> 
> 
> First dates can be anytime.... the 2016 March Madness happens only one time!
> 
> 
> 
> Invite GUYS over.... drink, fart, burp, scratch yourself.... (why women can't enjoy this is beyond me LOL)
> 
> 
> 
> or hit a sports bar. Drink... fine, get a taxi. Or get a room nearby.



My Ags just came back from 12 down with 44 seconds left to send it into overtime. Won in 2OT. 

Whoop!

Drank beer. 

Spurs beat up GS. 

Drank wine. 

Worked in the yard today. Cut grass, trimmed bushes, pulled weed, fertilized. 

Then grilled dinner for my family. 

Very satisfying weekend. 

Unbe, what was your relationship with your old man?

Do you have many male friends?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> My Ags just came back from 12 down with 44 seconds left to send it into overtime. Won in 2OT.
> 
> Whoop!
> 
> Drank beer.
> 
> Spurs beat up GS.
> 
> Drank wine.
> 
> Worked in the yard today. Cut grass, trimmed bushes, pulled weed, fertilized.
> 
> Then grilled dinner for my family.
> 
> Very satisfying weekend.
> 
> Unbe, what was your relationship with your old man?
> 
> Do you have many male friends?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Male friends OTHER than us.


----------



## Chuck71

Back in March 1990.... 1st love and I broke up.... scale 1-10... she was a 14. But something happened....

UNLV steam rolled everyone (fav team), Bo Kimble became a hero to me forever (see Hank Gathers death on court),

I watched Major Leagues for the first time..... I hung out with my running buddy from HS, I talked cars with

the guys at the burger joint I used to work at, tinkered with pop on the Corvette. I was ok with life w/o 1st love,

I was ok with fact I may "never love again" .... yes I was still a teen.

Regrouped and moved on.... suddenly I was a chic magnet. Sometimes had three dates in one day.

I would not make any female a priority unless they gave me a reason to. Oh... the "14 bombshell" 1st love....

who? Oh.... hope she's happy where ever she is. Oh... she came storming back. Guess she was afraid I was 

having too much fun. Unbe.... who defined me during this time? And I thought back in March '90.. me life was over.

But Chuck you were a kid back then... yeah... pain is pain. But it did not define me. Ok... late '14.... when I

called it with UG.... I spoke to a few people who are posting on your thread.

Did it hurt.... yeah.... admitted that.... but the way things were going, I never regretted breaking things off.

Unbe..... everyone gets chained to the fence at times..... but the key is ALWAYS within reach.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> My Ags just came back from 12 down with 44 seconds left to send it into overtime. Won in 2OT.
> 
> Whoop!
> 
> Drank beer.
> 
> Spurs beat up GS.
> 
> Drank wine.
> 
> Worked in the yard today. Cut grass, trimmed bushes, pulled weed, fertilized.
> 
> Then grilled dinner for my family.
> 
> Very satisfying weekend.
> 
> Unbe, what was your relationship with your old man?
> 
> Do you have many male friends?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Old man not much of one...http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...red-twelve-thousand-minutes.html#post15141905

I have many male friends however...Stick to a core 5 though. We get together as much as there schedules allow.


----------



## Chuck71

CG...... hope SA Spurs get #6 for Duncan. Yes he should have 7. 2013 Game 6... I rest my case.

MJ had 6.... 3 and 3.... Kobe had 3 and 2.... blame that on 2008 Finals. Shoulda, coulda 

Duncan.... should have 6 already.... let's make it official this year.... against the DEthroned "king"

James is great but he never won a title with his "own" team. Whaddya mean.... ask MJ, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Kobe....


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> CG...... hope SA Spurs get #6 for Duncan. Yes he should have 7. 2013 Game 6... I rest my case.
> 
> MJ had 6.... 3 and 3.... Kobe had 3 and 2.... blame that on 2008 Finals. Shoulda, coulda
> 
> Duncan.... should have 6 already.... let's make it official this year.... against the DEthroned "king"
> 
> James is great but he never won a title with his "own" team. Whaddya mean.... ask MJ, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Kobe....


Don't forget Manu's fould on Nowitski in '06 West Finals.

Should have won that year too.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Old man not much of one...http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...red-twelve-thousand-minutes.html#post15141905
> 
> I have many male friends however...Stick to a core 5 though. We get together as much as there schedules allow.


What does that mean?


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> Don't forget Manu's fould on Nowitski in '06 West Finals.
> 
> Should have won that year too.


I can't recall that one..... but wasn't that Shaq / D Wade's year in Miami? Plus it wasn't an odd numbered year LOL

The Admiral got a bad rap in 1995... yes awesome year but who was going to stop Hakeem / Drexler?

The NBA was funny for awhile.... most of the 80s was Lakers / Celtics, Lakers won two in row, then Pistons two,

then Bulls three, Rockets two, Bulls three. Toss out the strike year of '99 and you had Lakers three.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> What does that mean?


A you lost me Rtz...


----------



## turnera

You guys speaking English?


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> You guys speaking English?


I was for the most part...lol

Anyway nothing really to update...

MB reached out with the new log in for the mortgage online payment (not sure why she changed it to being with...) and signed off the email "I hope you are doing well"

What was funny though was in the address line in the email she had changed my contact info to assho*e lol (i guess she didnt think I would see it)

Kinda funny that she portrays me in that light lol. Also, why would you wish an assho#e well? 

Anyway my response was


Thanks for the heads up

Sincerely,

Assho*e


I got a good laugh out of it


----------



## Chuck71

This is now your theme song............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs


----------



## ReturntoZero

ReturntoZero said:


> What does that mean?


How much do "schedules" allow?

Once a month?

Once a week?

Once a year?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> How much do "schedules" allow?
> 
> Once a month?
> 
> Once a week?
> 
> Once a year?


I make it a point to see one of them once a week. It will be a different one however


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> I make it a point to see one of them once a week. It will be a different one however



Not enough. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I make it a point to see one of them once a week. It will be a different one however


That won't even rate an invite to the Mule Convention in Mexico.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> I have no motivation to find a hobby.


You don't have any hobbies, or activities, or side-interests that you enjoy? (besides work)

Jeez.

Guess that means you focus pretty much on one thing.

HER.

Whomever "her" happens to be at the moment.

Time to get a life.


----------



## turnera

And some antidepressants.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> You don't have any hobbies, or activities, or side-interests that you enjoy? (besides work)
> 
> Jeez.
> 
> Guess that means you focus pretty much on one thing.
> 
> HER.
> 
> Whomever "her" happens to be at the moment.
> 
> Time to get a life.


Couldn't agree more! 

My hobbies were all centered around gambling which I haven't done in two years. Since then I find it hard to hold any interests other than playing softball and basketball once a week.

I am setting up a 6 month plan which involves me moving out of state. I am going to finally start up my own business which I have been talking about doing for years, now is the time. 

At least I will be able to immerse myself in this and not have so much free time on my hands to obsess over whomever.

It seems that I am not even close to being ready to basically grow up. 

Every girl that I have met post MB that was remotely interested in me I wind up pushing away. Starts off great, dies out really quickly. This is no doubt due to my insecurities, not having any interests other than work, and just general co-dependency. 

Anyway, I have dropped the online dating. I did have one that was straggling and she still is, clearly shes all screwed up also if shes sticking around. Obv Im not thinking anything here.

6 month plan is as follows:

Sign, seal, deliver the D- ETA 2 weeks into the courts

List the house for sale- 4/15

Start looking at condos online for possible moves, either Nashville, Houston or SD- ongoing

Looking for new IC- ongoing am getting close. Hoping to start with new IC after easter.

Look for inital employment in new location- will start once I find residence

Finish up and settle law suit with prev employer- 5/1


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> And some antidepressants.


Not sure how I feel about this...can you recommend anything natural?


----------



## ThreeStrikes

unbe said:


> Not sure how I feel about this...can you recommend anything natural?


Steer clear of them. I don't see anything in what you post here that would warrant needing them. Side effects can be rough.

With that being said, I'd take any medical recommendations from non-physicians on this forum with a grain of salt. (I am one, btw)

IC yes. Drugs no.

Exercise, good nutrition/diet, meditation, immersing yourself in an interest, and controlling your thoughts. Work on that.


----------



## ReturntoZero

ThreeStrikes said:


> You don't have any hobbies, or activities, or side-interests that you enjoy? (besides work)
> 
> Jeez.
> 
> Guess that means you focus pretty much on one thing.
> 
> HER.
> 
> Whomever "her" happens to be at the moment.
> 
> Time to get a life.


Mules know best.


----------



## unbe

A question I have been struggling with the past couple of days....

Did MB ever really love me?

I think I know the answer to this but based on what you have read what's your opinion?

My answer is two fold

1- how can someone love you if you never loved yourself?

2- how can someone love you if THEY never loved themselves?


----------



## farsidejunky

Add the word "properly" to each statement, e.g.

"How can someone love you PROPERLY if they never loved themselves?"

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> A question I have been struggling with the past couple of days....
> 
> Did MB ever really love me?
> 
> I think I know the answer to this but based on what you have read what's your opinion?
> 
> My answer is two fold
> 
> 1- how can someone love you if you never loved yourself?
> 
> 2- how can someone love you if THEY never loved themselves?


If you never loved you, she never had a chance to do it.

She has no idea who you really are.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Couldn't agree more!
> 
> My hobbies were all centered around gambling which I haven't done in two years. Since then I find it hard to hold any interests other than playing softball and basketball once a week.
> 
> I am setting up a 6 month plan which involves me moving out of state. I am going to finally start up my own business which I have been talking about doing for years, now is the time.
> 
> At least I will be able to immerse myself in this and not have so much free time on my hands to obsess over whomever.
> 
> It seems that I am not even close to being ready to basically grow up.
> 
> Every girl that I have met post MB that was remotely interested in me I wind up pushing away. Starts off great, dies out really quickly. This is no doubt due to my insecurities, not having any interests other than work, and just general co-dependency.
> 
> Anyway, I have dropped the online dating. I did have one that was straggling and she still is, clearly shes all screwed up also if shes sticking around. Obv Im not thinking anything here.
> 
> 6 month plan is as follows:
> 
> Sign, seal, deliver the D- ETA 2 weeks into the courts
> 
> List the house for sale- 4/15
> 
> Start looking at condos online for possible moves, either Nashville, Houston or SD- ongoing
> 
> Looking for new IC- ongoing am getting close. Hoping to start with new IC after easter.
> 
> Look for inital employment in new location- will start once I find residence
> 
> Finish up and settle law suit with prev employer- 5/1


NOW we're talking. Stay the course.

Stay THIS course.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> A question I have been struggling with the past couple of days....
> 
> 
> 
> Did MB ever really love me?
> 
> 
> 
> I think I know the answer to this but based on what you have read what's your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> My answer is two fold
> 
> 
> 
> 1- how can someone love you if you never loved yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> 2- how can someone love you if THEY never loved themselves?




Good question. 

But if you never loved yourself how can you blame her?

This is the root you need to get to. 

It's the FOO issues you should be discussing in IC. 

Yeah, MB was a b1tch. But you chose her. Why?


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> Good question.
> 
> But if you never loved yourself how can you blame her?
> 
> This is the root you need to get to.
> 
> It's the FOO issues you should be discussing in IC.
> 
> Yeah, MB was a b1tch. But you chose her. Why?


And.. more importantly... you need to be ready for the rest of your life. IF you don't fix you, you won't be.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Good question.
> 
> But if you never loved yourself how can you blame her?
> 
> This is the root you need to get to.
> 
> It's the FOO issues you should be discussing in IC.
> 
> Yeah, MB was a b1tch. But you chose her. Why?


I cant blame her because she never had a road map on how. 

However....

Even if she did, would she have been the one to follow the map? Im going with no chance in he!!

Why did I choose her? I only wish I knew that answer


----------



## Tron

unbe said:


> Why did I choose her? I only wish I knew that answer


This is something to ponder on Unbe.

Sometimes they reflect unmet needs,

Sometimes the pull is that they remind us of someone, mom or dad etc. 

Sometimes, there is a desire to change or mold them into someone else

Sometimes it's just sex appeal

What was it that appealed to you about her early on? 

It really is key information that you need to grow.


----------



## unbe

Tron said:


> This is something to ponder on Unbe.
> 
> Sometimes they reflect unmet needs,
> 
> Sometimes the pull is that they remind us of someone, mom or dad etc.
> 
> Sometimes, there is a desire to change or mold them into someone else
> 
> Sometimes it's just sex appeal
> 
> What was it that appealed to you about her early on?
> 
> It really is key information that you need to grow.



The inital appeal was clearly attraction. I couldnt believe she was interested in me....

Then, she would write letters and hours upon hours of conversations on how she would care for me until the day I died. I had always been the one taking care of people, it felt really good to hear that- Thats what sucked me in for good!!!


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> The inital appeal was clearly attraction. I couldnt believe she was interested in me....


For anyone reading, such thoughts spell DOOM for your relationship.

It reflects placing an extremely low value on YOU. If you don't value you, who in God's name will?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> For anyone reading, such thoughts spell DOOM for your relationship.
> 
> It reflects placing an extremely low value on YOU. If you don't value you, who in God's name will?


To add to this, once your partner figures out that you feel that way. You will be a chasing a following your partner around like a lapdog just looking for scraps of validation.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> To add to this, once your partner figures out that you feel that way. You will be a chasing a following your partner around like a lapdog just looking for scraps of validation.


And, "reassurance sex" is the worst kind of sex in the world.


----------



## unbe

I think I need to change my screen name to Sam Rothstein...

Looking back my relationship seems to mirror that of Sam Rothstein and Ginger from the movie Casino.

Update:

Working on my plan daily. Applying for jobs, hounding my lawyers, looking at condos. Keeping busy

Still looking for a new IC. I haven't found anyone yet so in the mean time will continue going to the co pay collector. 

Once it warms up over here Ill be heading to the dog park with regularity. Thats when the real fun begins..lol.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I think I need to change my screen name to Sam Rothstein...
> 
> Looking back my relationship seems to mirror that of Sam Rothstein and Ginger from the movie Casino.
> 
> Update:
> 
> Working on my plan daily. Applying for jobs, hounding my lawyers, looking at condos. Keeping busy
> 
> Still looking for a new IC. I haven't found anyone yet so in the mean time will continue going to the co pay collector.
> 
> Once it warms up over here Ill be heading to the dog park with regularity. Thats when the real fun begins..lol.


Unbe,

Have you ever read Athol Kay's Married Man's Sex Life? (The book)


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe,
> 
> Have you ever read Athol Kay's Married Man's Sex Life? (The book)


2 years ago...I just finished CDNM. Think its time to give this one another whirl


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> 2 years ago...I just finished CDNM. Think its time to give this one another whirl


Get after it.

It will likely really resonate this time.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Having trouble sleeping through the night. Been waking up at 3am the last 4 days and laying awake for about an hour. Having some weird dreams also.

Job is causing a ton of stress again. They basically forced me into a role 2 months ago that has no chance of success and I'm making about half what I was. I have been looking for a new job but haven't found anything yet.

I need SOMETHING to level off. SOMETHING to go on cruise control while I sort the rest of my life out. 

I have tabled dating as you know but not for the reasons why I SHOULD. Its more of:

1- I cant really afford it right now
2- I am not prepared emotionally to deal with the ups and downs

Positives:

MB is the furthest from my mind. I may think about her for a total of 10-15 minutes every other day now. When I do get weak I instantly remember who she really is.


----------



## turnera

Your low points in life are what you use to push you to greatness, unbe. Look for ways to achieve that.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> I need SOMETHING to level off. SOMETHING to go on cruise control while I sort the rest of my life out.




If you haven't read Awareness, read it. 

If you have, read it again.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> If you haven't read Awareness, read it.
> 
> If you have, read it again.


Mules know best.


----------



## Ceegee

http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Re-read it again...Going to give a read once a week for the next 3 months.

Update: Nothing to report really. Things have been wayyyyyyyy to quite, typically we know what that means. A strike is coming!

I do have a date tonight, it is with a girl whom I have been talking to for about 2 months. We started talking early on in the OLD experience and just recently met for the first time on Tuesday. Had a lot of fun and laughed all night. For now, that's good enough for me and I'm looking forward to much of the same tonight.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Wait a minute....

A few days ago, you said you "tabled" dating.

So, you met the gal on Tuesday, "tabled" dating on Thursday, and have a date today.



Edit: from one a$$ to another: I'm bowing out of your thread. I've decided you're full of it, and are feeding us a line of BS, IMO.

Good luck.


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Wait a minute....
> 
> A few days ago, you said you "tabled" dating.
> 
> So, you met the gal on Tuesday, "tabled" dating on Thursday, and have a date today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: from one a$$ to another: I'm bowing out of your thread. I've decided you're full of it, and are feeding us a line of BS, IMO.
> 
> Good luck.


Yes I have tabled OLD as I am not online looking anymore. Sorry if I wasn't clear 

In any event, thanks for your feedback up to now. I appreciated it!


----------



## Ceegee

ThreeStrikes said:


> Wait a minute....
> 
> A few days ago, you said you "tabled" dating.
> 
> So, you met the gal on Tuesday, "tabled" dating on Thursday, and have a date today.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: from one a$$ to another: I'm bowing out of your thread. I've decided you're full of it, and are feeding us a line of BS, IMO.
> 
> Good luck.




Sorry Unbe, I have to agree with 3x. 

I don't understand what you are trying to get from your thread. 

You seem to rotate in tightly wound circles. 

I don't know how we can help you.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Sorry Unbe, I have to agree with 3x.
> 
> I don't understand what you are trying to get from your thread.
> 
> You seem to rotate in tightly wound circles.
> 
> I don't know how we can help you.


Look you guys are 10000% correct. I am all over the place with this dating thing. I did stop looking for new people, this one just happened to be lingering around and I acted on it...I'm not perfect nor is anyone on this site.

Bottom line, if I f-up and slip up while dating it's a million times better than slipping up and screwing with the D or MB. I'll take that trade off for now....

My lawyer got the paperwork with MB, he is reviewing it and we will speak soon.

I settled my suit, should be signing that shortly.

Things are starting to settle in....


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Look you guys are 10000% correct. I am all over the place with this dating thing. I did stop looking for new people, this one just happened to be lingering around and I acted on it...I'm not perfect nor is anyone on this site.
> 
> Bottom line, if I f-up and slip up while dating it's a million times better than slipping up and screwing with the D or MB. I'll take that trade off for now....
> 
> My lawyer got the paperwork with MB, he is reviewing it and we will speak soon.
> 
> I settled my suit, should be signing that shortly.
> 
> Things are starting to settle in....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O42Vu_GnSc

"Except this time I know exactly what I'm doing"


----------



## Tron

ReturntoZero said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O42Vu_GnSc


:lol: :lol: :lol:

That was perfect. Nice find!


----------



## unbe

Great Update:

D paperwork to be signed Monday- Done

Settlement paperwork to be signed next week- Done

It feels good to start knocking some sht off the list...

Still looking for a new job and new location. I am leaning towards San Diego at this point...


----------



## unbe

Weekend update:

Starting to feel a little weak. With Monday looming I am getting nostalgic and questioning whether or not I did everything I could to try and save this marriage.

Its making me question my position on this whole thing. Even knowing what I know....


----------



## turnera

Even if you wanted to stay married, your partner didn't. And you can't make someone else do what you want.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Weekend update:
> 
> Starting to feel a little weak. With Monday looming I am getting nostalgic and questioning whether or not I did everything I could to try and save this marriage.
> 
> Its making me question my position on this whole thing. Even knowing what I know....


When is the last time you reached out to your safe man?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> When is the last time you reached out to your safe man?


Its been a looong time...thing tonight would be a good time to do that!


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Its been a looong time...thing tonight would be a good time to do that!


That's what they're there for.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Not much going on...life is in progress.

Waiting to resign D paperwork, slight change that MB and I overlooked but had normal lawyer jurgen in it. 

Lawsuit is wrapping up, should be signing next week

House is being listed next week

Did have a brief email discussion with MB last week. I had to log into the mortgage account online but was blocked. She needs to call to unblock it ( I cant, im not on it).

Unbe: The mortgage account is locked, you will need to call and have it unlocked. Also, I think we should talk about the house.

MB: Thanks for letting me know. I will call tomorrow. What do you want to talk about? To be honest, I have some logistical loose ends to tie up and I'm curious to know why you haven't signed the paperwork yet, but other than that I don't feel as if we have anything else to talk about. I tried to talk to you a few months ago and you were very curt. I do not wish to have a similar discussion again. So, unless you have logistical things to discuss with me, or you wish to let me know why you haven't signed the divorce agreement yet, then I don't have anything else to say to you.

Unbe: Nothing logistical to discuss. We just got the paperwork from your end last Monday, I am going tomorrow to sign. Wanted to have a discussion about how were going to handle the house sale but based on the tone of your email, forget it. I will communicate through Paula and my lawyer. You left me thinking you'd be happier, ever stop to ask yourself if you really are? You sound very bitter

MB: I am not bitter, just very angry for the financial mess that you have put me in , and I think you knew very well what you were doing the entire time. But despite that, yes, I am much happier because I am much more myself. Thanks for considering my feelings. (I literally spit my water out reading this...lol)

Unbe: I didn't put you in any financial mess. YOU DID THIS, THIS WAS ALL YOUR CHOICE. Grow up and own it already



Sigh.....


----------



## farsidejunky

Stop f****** engaging.

Just stop. You know better.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Not much going on...life is in progress.
> 
> Waiting to resign D paperwork, slight change that MB and I overlooked but had normal lawyer jurgen in it.
> 
> Lawsuit is wrapping up, should be signing next week
> 
> House is being listed next week
> 
> Did have a brief email discussion with MB last week. I had to log into the mortgage account online but was blocked. She needs to call to unblock it ( I cant, im not on it).
> 
> Unbe: The mortgage account is locked, you will need to call and have it unlocked. Also, I think we should talk about the house.
> 
> MB: Thanks for letting me know. I will call tomorrow. What do you want to talk about? To be honest, I have some logistical loose ends to tie up and I'm curious to know why you haven't signed the paperwork yet, but other than that I don't feel as if we have anything else to talk about. I tried to talk to you a few months ago and you were very curt. I do not wish to have a similar discussion again. So, unless you have logistical things to discuss with me, or you wish to let me know why you haven't signed the divorce agreement yet, then I don't have anything else to say to you.
> 
> Unbe: Nothing logistical to discuss. We just got the paperwork from your end last Monday, I am going tomorrow to sign. Wanted to have a discussion about how were going to handle the house sale but based on the tone of your email, forget it. I will communicate through Paula and my lawyer. You left me thinking you'd be happier, ever stop to ask yourself if you really are? You sound very bitter
> 
> MB: I am not bitter, just very angry for the financial mess that you have put me in , and I think you knew very well what you were doing the entire time. But despite that, yes, I am much happier because I am much more myself. Thanks for considering my feelings. (I literally spit my water out reading this...lol)
> 
> Unbe: I didn't put you in any financial mess. YOU DID THIS, THIS WAS ALL YOUR CHOICE. Grow up and own it already
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.....


Unbe,

Do you unterstand how this conversation reads?

You're in denial.

It's not just this last post. It goes back for months.


----------



## Tron

unbe said:


> Unbe: The mortgage account is locked, you will need to call and have it unlocked.


You were doing great up to here.

Then this started:



unbe said:


> Unbe: Also, I think we should talk about the house.
> 
> MB: Thanks for letting me know. I will call tomorrow. What do you want to talk about? To be honest, I have some logistical loose ends to tie up and I'm curious to know why you haven't signed the paperwork yet, but other than that I don't feel as if we have anything else to talk about. I tried to talk to you a few months ago and you were very curt. I do not wish to have a similar discussion again. So, unless you have logistical things to discuss with me, or you wish to let me know why you haven't signed the divorce agreement yet, then I don't have anything else to say to you.
> 
> Unbe: Nothing logistical to discuss. We just got the paperwork from your end last Monday, I am going tomorrow to sign. Wanted to have a discussion about how were going to handle the house sale but based on the tone of your email, forget it. I will communicate through Paula and my lawyer. You left me thinking you'd be happier, ever stop to ask yourself if you really are? You sound very bitter
> 
> MB: I am not bitter, just very angry for the financial mess that you have put me in , and I think you knew very well what you were doing the entire time. But despite that, yes, I am much happier because I am much more myself. Thanks for considering my feelings. (I literally spit my water out reading this...lol)
> 
> Unbe: I didn't put you in any financial mess. YOU DID THIS, THIS WAS ALL YOUR CHOICE. Grow up and own it already
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.....


:slap: :slap: :slap:


----------



## Ceegee

Tron said:


> You were doing great up to here.
> 
> 
> 
> Then this started:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :slap: :slap: :slap:




Lol, no the first part is bad too.


----------



## Chuck71

Reason why you hear people talking about Yoda from Star Wars and Myagi from Karate Kid is because they 

do not seek engagements. From your post it is hard to tell who wanted to engage more, you or MB


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> Reason why you hear people talking about Yoda from Star Wars and Myagi from Karate Kid is because they
> 
> 
> 
> do not seek engagements. From your post it is hard to tell who wanted to engage more, you or MB




The Devils in the details. 

Who wants to engage?

They both do. 

Why?

Because its instinctual.

He might think it means more. 

It doesn't. 

So, be the one who ends it. 

Move the F on.


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> The Devils in the details.
> 
> Who wants to engage?
> 
> They both do.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because its instinctual.
> 
> He might think it means more.
> 
> It doesn't.
> 
> So, be the one who ends it.
> 
> Move the F on.



I realized it was a epic fail....thats why sighed

I do not feel however that I am in denial... The feeling I have been experiencing is more anger.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Been feeling down lately....mainly due to life in general not so much MB or the D.

Trying to get a new routine but im struggling finding something that will keep my interest.

Been exhausted lately.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe...... since last summer I have had major issues with my mom. After

triple by-pass and two mini strokes (these were the catalysts), she is in 

no way the person she once was. I have to keep that in mind because she 

was a great mom for 40+ years. Today.... she has flashes of her old self

but they are decreasing. You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere or

you will be consumed by the chaos. Mom's B-day was tax day... we had a

blow-up about a month prior and I had not seen her since then. No matter if

we were into it or not, I was going to see her.... being I strongly feel it will be

her last B-day. 

She called to let me know she was awake and I said I will be leaving in about 

thirty minutes. I told her anything she want to eat, I will go get. When I arrived,

mom informed me she called and asked her sister (my ex aunt, have no use for 

her) to run by and bring her something. "I will catch you later, I will not be here

when she arrives." Mom got pizzed I was leaving. I told her she knew 110% how

I felt about her sister, Why did she do it? I have no clue.... she may not either.

I gave her a kiss, hugged her, wished her a happy birthday.... those were the 

important things. Mom was slinging things onto the floor when I left. Did I want to

leave things as this, no..... but I had to. You have to draw a line with everyone.

Sometimes it hurts but nowhere near as bad as being absorbed into the chaos

machine. I'm reminded daily of how mom used to be.... and what she has turned

into. Go to my LaD thread Crossroads II and start reading from about a year ago

for more backstory.

There are repercussions for everything we do. I didn't want to drop the D on my XW....

but I did. Never regretted it and so glad I did early on. I didn't want to take this stance

with mom.... but I did. I have been much more at peace since I did. I can sleep at night.

See Unbe.... my ex aunt is a perfect example of a Co-D.... mom can anger dump on her

and she takes it, comes back for more. Honestly..... I think my ex aunt enjoys it.

I don't allow it.... so guess who her aligences are with. I'm fine with that.... because

the mom I knew "died" with the mini strokes.

Like I tell people (guys), you had her at her best, now she is a shell of her former self.

Same applies here. You can't get back what no longer exists..........


----------



## ReturntoZero

Ceegee said:


> The Devils in the details.
> 
> Who wants to engage?
> 
> They both do.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because its instinctual.
> 
> He might think it means more.
> 
> It doesn't.
> 
> So, be the one who ends it.
> 
> Move the F on.


Victim Puke is never pretty.

We exit the Drama Triangle as the prosecutor - by letting THEM experience natural consequences.

There is no other exit.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Its been a loooooong week. My dog was hit by a car (thank god hes ok), work has been insane and Ive been teetering on insanity. Been reading alot to try and stay grounded.

Then this morning:

MB: "Hi, I just wanted to apologize for that email correspondence. You caught me at a really bad time and I'm sorry if I took it out on you. Anyway, I would feel better if you and I discussed/handled that terms of the sale of the house moving forward bc im so tired of dealing with lawyers. But, if you prefer to handle it this way just let me know and we can proceed to do so."



My take: Alot of "I" "Me" in this text. Typical.

Haven't responded yet....should I?


----------



## farsidejunky

This is a microcosm of your marriage.

"Unbe, let your guard and your boundaries down because our current situation is not working for me."

That said, if it were me, I would have a one line response:

"I am not okay with leaving lawyers out of it."

She has shown herself to be only after her own self interest. Clearly it benefits her to do this. Usually that means you lose. 

So, how can her leaving lawyers out make you lose and her win?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> This is a microcosm of your marriage.
> 
> "Unbe, let your guard and your boundaries down because our current situation is not working for me."
> 
> That said, if it were me, I would have a one line response:
> 
> "I am not okay with leaving lawyers out of it."
> 
> She has shown herself to be only after her own self interest. Clearly it benefits her to do this. Usually that means you lose.
> 
> So, how can her leaving lawyers out make you lose and her win?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Decided to go with no repsonse...Today she reached out again bashing me and reconfirming how this was the best decision she made. Then telling me she was coming to the house this week to get some more stuff.

My response:

"I am not ok with leaving the lawyers out of it. Anything you need from the house can be shipped to you at your expense. Let me know what you want sent"


----------



## Chuck71

When she shows up...... in a trench coat...... ahhhh


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> When she shows up...... in a trench coat...... ahhhh


Last time I saw her she looked like sht...better be a big coat!


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Its been a loooooong week. My dog was hit by a car (thank god hes ok), work has been insane and Ive been teetering on insanity. Been reading alot to try and stay grounded.
> 
> Then this morning:
> 
> MB: "Hi, I just wanted to apologize for that email correspondence. You caught me at a really bad time and I'm sorry if I took it out on you. Anyway, I would feel better if you and I discussed/handled that terms of the sale of the house moving forward bc im so tired of dealing with lawyers. But, if you prefer to handle it this way just let me know and we can proceed to do so."












Unbe - let's go around the Triangle AGAIN!


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Unbe - let's go around the Triangle AGAIN!


Im too tired to continue to run on this treadmill. Im off it for good!

Got an IFS therapist FINALLY...Start with him Wednesday


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Im too tired to continue to run on this treadmill. Im off it for good!
> 
> Got an IFS therapist FINALLY...Start with him Wednesday


I want you to post about it - or call. Your choice.


----------



## Chuck71

ReturntoZero said:


> I want you to post about it - or call. Your choice.


Yeah this is hair band but listen to the damn words

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skr282j-Cn4

We ain't here to convict you..............

but we will call your arse out 

and applaud when necessary 

Up 2 U


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Yeah this is hair band but listen to the damn words
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skr282j-Cn4
> 
> We ain't here to convict you..............
> 
> but we will call your arse out
> 
> and applaud when necessary
> 
> Up 2 U


Met with him today actually...good first session. Recommended two books for me and wants me to look into myself and find "my purpose" for our next meeting to discuss. Is happy with where I am as far as being aware and noticing when my codep rears up. Hes confident he can help me execute a correct game plan when the time comes.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Met with him today actually...good first session. Recommended two books for me and wants me to look into myself and find "my purpose" for our next meeting to discuss. Is happy with where I am as far as being aware and noticing when my codep rears up. Hes confident he can help me execute a correct game plan when the time comes.


Night and day difference than your last copay collector, no?


----------



## Chuck71

Most Co-Ds have good intentions...... but past issues disallow this.

To a certain degree everyone could pinpoint a certain degree of Co-D.

Just like the 74 y / o Baptist preacher who drank whiskey once in 1961.

Is he a drunk.... no. There's a difference.

Be nice to see you experience your "parting of the clouds" moment.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Papers are signed, should be executed in 60 days.

House is being listed next week, this could take some time. There is a ton of construction ongoing on my block, it looks like a war zone. Needless to say, this isnt very appealing to a prospective buyers. Until I get a buyer, moving plans are on hold as well as the new job search. 

Winding down the law suit with the prev employer, hoping this is wrapped up today or Monday.

Excited to be working with a new IC....ready for the challenge.

Weather should be getting nice soon, time to take the wingman (aka my 1 year old Bulldog) to some dog parks and let him work is magic!


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Night and day difference than your last copay collector, no?


Couldnt be more different...This guy is going to make me a better man


----------



## farsidejunky

Only if you choose to allow him to do so.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> Only if you choose to allow him to do so.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


? should i be following all of his advice blindly at this point? even if i dont agree with it?

I feel that my decision making at this time may not be the best and perhaps I just need to let go of it for a while.


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> ? should i be following all of his advice blindly at this point? even if i dont agree with it?
> 
> I feel that my decision making at this time may not be the best and perhaps I just need to let go of it for a while.


Never follow anything blindly. Take in what he advises. Bounce it against your safe man. Bring it here if you need to.

But be open to doing things different. That was all I was trying to say in that last post.


----------



## Chuck71

It is healthy to listen to as many opinions / strategies as possible. But it is your choice to weed out

the ones you do not feel align with your principles. Some you will fully disregard, some you fully accept.

Most you will take parts of and dismiss the other. 

Similar to how a prudent GM builds a baseball team. Ever see a 40 y / o baseball player who is well past his

prime still in the game? It's not his bat or glove.... it's the leadership.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> ? should i be following all of his advice blindly at this point? even if i dont agree with it?
> 
> I feel that my decision making at this time may not be the best and perhaps I just need to let go of it for a while.


Be specific - tell us what's going on.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Be specific - tell us what's going on.


Just finished our session today.

I started a thread in the clubhouse reg dating as it was well received here. Its clear that the hobby I choose to take up right now is in fact that. As unhealthy as that may be, thats where I wound up.

He is ok with it as long as I am aware that I am not ready to pick a life partner and to use this time to regain self confidence and to look for what I like/dislike.

We started the session by him asking me about some women who i have been seeing for about a month now. We hang out quite a bit and enioy each others company. No sex (he is advising me to stay away from this for now).

This women has been hinting at us being b/f and g/f and she did so again this week, I called her out on it. To be clear we are NOT exclusively dating, I just called her out on the fact that she keeps bringing it up. My IC advised that was a big step for me. I also approached a women this weekend and gave her my number. That may be the first time I have done that ever in my life. 

He advised both of those things this past week were huge steps and I'm getting closer to finding my purpose. 

We talked about my co-dep towards women and hes stating I am not showing it right now but fears if any of these R's progress I may fall back into the trap, hence the advise to hold off on sex.



Other than this I really have nothing to report...D is done. House is going to get done but it may take some time. I havent even thought about MB and I honestly have 0 feelings for her anymore.

Been sleeping alot better

My R with my friends have gotten stronger

Life is progressing


----------



## Mr The Other

@unbe , it is the people who come on this board with self-awareness that really make it worthwhile. Thank you.


----------



## Chuck71

That is progress Unbe. To learn, you have to stop running for awhile.

Yeah you will "get behind" the road when you stop but it is to learn, examine.

Once you reach the level we have told you of... you will fly by the old Unbe on the road. 

Smiling and waving at him as he disappears in the distance.

Just because you meet a female and she is single, likes you, finds you attractive..... it doesn't mean you

HAVE to date her. The reason why some men are told it is best not to have sex with a female....

some fall in love as a by-product of the sex. Just because you have sex with a female.... does not mean you

are bound to date her / have LTR with. Same goes for the females as well...


----------



## unbe

Of course I get put to the test immediately last night. The girl I have been seeing comes over for dinner, we have some wine and she decides to stay over. 

This is the first girl I have had in my bed since MB...

Had to do everything in my power to not sleep with her and it was incredibly difficult to do but I managed....

I did have to turn in my man card this morning though which kinda sucks...lol


----------



## Chuck71

Women who get mad you decline sex.... usually have ulterior motives being.... if she knows your situation

with MB, the D, this tells you she disrespected your boundaries. She pushed them.... and well, by 

your man card statement....... What do you plan on doing to re-set your boundaries?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Women who get mad you decline sex.... usually have ulterior motives being.... if she knows your situation
> 
> with MB, the D, this tells you she disrespected your boundaries. She pushed them.... and well, by
> 
> your man card statement....... What do you plan on doing to re-set your boundaries?


Chuck, to be clear she wasn't mad or upset at all. I was just saying it was difficult for me to follow through on my IC's advice.

She actually told me she had a great night and loved being at my place for the night.


----------



## ButtPunch

unbe said:


> Had to do everything in my power to not sleep with her and it was incredibly difficult to do but I managed....


Boy this goes against everything MMSLP teaches.

Not saying you are wrong....just an observation.


----------



## Tron

ButtPunch said:


> Boy this goes against everything MMSLP teaches.
> 
> Not saying you are wrong....just an observation.


Perhaps. But I don't know BP, if done once or twice at the beginning, the woman might find his self control pretty damn attractive.

Let it go on too long though and it could be a turnoff or an indicator of 'other' issues.


----------



## ButtPunch

Tron said:


> Perhaps. But I don't know BP, if done once or twice at the beginning, the woman might find his self control pretty damn attractive.
> 
> Let it go on too long though and it could be a turnoff or an indicator of 'other' issues.


I agree.....MMSLP intended for husbands and wives.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Chuck, to be clear she wasn't mad or upset at all. I was just saying it was difficult for me to follow through on my IC's advice.
> 
> She actually told me she had a great night and loved being at my place for the night.


Let me re-state...... who is driving the car in the house?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Let me re-state...... who is driving the car in the house?


I am sir...but her laying next to me in her underwear..GD

Goes against every primal instinct I have


----------



## unbe

Tron said:


> Perhaps. But I don't know BP, if done once or twice at the beginning, the woman might find his self control pretty damn attractive.
> 
> Let it go on too long though and it could be a turnoff or an indicator of 'other' issues.


Agreed 1000%...Its a very fine line im walking here. I doubt very highly that this girl has spent the night in bed with a guy before and it hasnt happened. If anything shes wondering WTF..lol


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I am sir...but her laying next to me in her underwear..GD
> 
> Goes against every primal instinct I have


And how has those ended up in your past?


----------



## farsidejunky

Tron said:


> Perhaps. But I don't know BP, if done once or twice at the beginning, the woman might find his self control pretty damn attractive.
> 
> Let it go on too long though and it could be a turnoff or an indicator of 'other' issues.


Remember the "women respect restraint" quote? I know I have read that a time or two from someone...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> And how has those ended up in your past?


Touche


----------



## Chuck71

But this time would be different.... you thought? 

Question.... your dating thread.... would you want my thoughts there, here, or not at all?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> But this time would be different.... you thought?
> 
> Question.... your dating thread.... would you want my thoughts there, here, or not at all?


Always value your thoughts Chuck...Perhaps post on there though.


----------



## ReturntoZero

There are no shortcuts to working on oneself.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Been without internet for a few days which is a good thing.

Ive been working on the house, had to get some things done for the dog. Life is progressing...

Havent been out with anyone, taking a little time to myself. Im targeting a month for now but am taking this day by day.

Of course the second I make this decision I have numerous women contacting me to hang out...im sure they will be there later on

Softball started this week, excited to get back out and active.

I am be starting a new job June 1. I am being presented with an offer this week, just need to make the money work and its full steam ahead.

IC has been going great....he has a strange way of challenging me but seems to get the result hes looking for each time he does it.


----------



## unbe

Again, not much to report which I guess is a good thing. Continuing to work on myself and slowly changing my co-dep mindset. This is going to take some time for sure...

Had dinner with my mother last night, she brought up MB. The thought of her does not trigger me any longer so I am fine with discussing her.

I questioned to her why I kept fighting for something that was so obviously broken.

She answered that when we first met I was the happiest she has ever seen me...for 2 months. Then it all went down hill.

The next time she saw me happy like that was during my first separation from MB...Telling to say the least.

Dont think I ever told you guys this nut a few years ago my sis got married in PR, MB was in the wedding party of course.

The trip was 2 nights, 3 days. MB wound up leaving early and flying to California for a job interview. (So she says)- First separation took place shortly after

My mom was done with her from that point forward. Honestly, my sis was also. 

Anyway, my mom is fully expecting that MB isnt quite done yet, I tend to agree with her although I think it wont come for some time. Only prob for MB is, I am fully done!

Mom asked what changed about her, I told her she showed us who she really was. She was never that person the first two months of our R, that was . That statement floored mom.


----------



## Chuck71

Lives in NY.... wedding in Puerto Rico..... job interview in CA? Let me guess.... training was to be 

in Sao Paulo.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Chuck71 said:


> Lives in NY.... wedding in Puerto Rico..... job interview in CA? Let me guess.... training was to be
> 
> in Sao Paulo.


Or at Larry Flynt's place


----------



## unbe

Update:

The house is to be listed however there is a ton of construction going on and I feel it isnt prudent to list right now. Unfortunately I will have to get MB to agree to this.

I expressed my concerns to the realtor as she is acting as the go between. 

The realtor mentioned to me the MB wants to come to the house to get some stuff. Last time she was there I told her to get whatever she needed and whatever she left behind would be thrown out. ( I didn't throw anything out yet, its mostly nonsense left behind)

My first emotional reaction was bitterness, I do not want her around my home. Although we both own it, I pay the bills, I maintain it and I have been living there alone now for 6 months. I told the realtor to get a list of things MB wants and I will have them shipped to her at her expense (MBs). 

Was I wrong with this response?


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> 
> 
> The house is to be listed however there is a ton of construction going on and I feel it isnt prudent to list right now. Unfortunately I will have to get MB to agree to this.
> 
> 
> 
> I expressed my concerns to the realtor as she is acting as the go between.
> 
> 
> 
> The realtor mentioned to me the MB wants to come to the house to get some stuff. Last time she was there I told her to get whatever she needed and whatever she left behind would be thrown out. ( I didn't throw anything out yet, its mostly nonsense left behind)
> 
> 
> 
> My first emotional reaction was bitterness, I do not want her around my home. Although we both own it, I pay the bills, I maintain it and I have been living there alone now for 6 months. I told the realtor to get a list of things MB wants and I will have them shipped to her at her expense (MBs).
> 
> 
> 
> Was I wrong with this response?




Ship her crap to her and be done. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Either set it out by the road and let her know (sunny day although it is tempting to during a rainstorm)

or take it to a storage unit, pay 1st month, mail her the key and paperwork on when next month is due.

I doubt she will even make a list or come get it at the road. WC's stuff was left under my carport....

She came 2-3x for dog swap and didn't say a word about it. Photos of her parents, siblings, her son's 

baby pictures (never knew a mom to give those up, ever), his fav fire truck he played with a whole summer.

I took everything to the dump. It filled up the entire bed of a Ford F150. That's how bad WC was re-writing history....

just like MB is


----------



## unbe

My main question was am I wrong with the feeling that im having not so much that act itself.

The bitterness, anger and hatred I have towards her. Should I be getting past this already?


----------



## Chuck71

It takes time.... every one is wired differently.

Chances are you will be over her.... before you even realize it.

Don't push it or rush it. Let it run it's own course.


----------



## unbe

Update:

Things have been great! IC is really helping...calling me out on my BS and making me work towards being a better man.

Received a letter from my XMIL....My initial reaction is what I went with.

Opened it, look for a check hoping to be reimbursed for all the money I wasted on MB (nothing there lol) then tore it up and didn't think twice to read it.

My view, there is nothing in there I want to know. Nothing she can say will change anything at this point. I don't care to know anything about MB, I would never respond to it so whats the point of reading it?

D is signed off and filed with thew courts. My Lawyer says we should be official by Aug.

Thank you to EVERYONE for getting me to this point.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> update:
> 
> Things have been great! Ic is really helping...calling me out on my bs and making me work towards being a better man.
> 
> Received a letter from my xmil....my initial reaction is what i went with.
> 
> Opened it, look for a check hoping to be reimbursed for all the money i wasted on mb (nothing there lol) then tore it up and didn't think twice to read it.
> 
> My view, there is nothing in there i want to know. Nothing she can say will change anything at this point. I don't care to know anything about mb, i would never respond to it so whats the point of reading it?
> 
> D is signed off and filed with thew courts. My lawyer says we should be official by aug.
> 
> Thank you to everyone for getting me to this point.


better!


----------



## unbe

Update:

So here we go. Im getting ready for work this morning and a knock on the door occurs. I figured it was the construction guys needing me to move my car. I get dressed and answer the door and low and behold..MB is standing in the door way.

Unbe: What are you doing here?
Mb: We need to talk
Unbe: OK. What are you doing here?

She walks in...

Starts talking to me about her insurance changing and she will get me the new info. She has my spare key too my truck (which she doesnt give back to me) and something else about her taxes.

Unbe: I am still confused why you are here. You are not supposed to be here. 

Mb: Well this is my house still. 

As per our signed agreement she is no longer allowed to be there.

Unbe: Did you not read the paperwork you signed, you are not allowed to be here. You have to go.

Mb: I want my stuff (there is nothing left here expect boxes of books and a mirror). Half of everything in here is mine.

Unbe: You can have everything in here, I don't want any of it. When we sell the house. Until then everything stays. You can take your books and mirror now if you want.

Mb: Why cant we talk about this civilly. We have to sell the house.

Unbe: Im still confused why you are here. We cant sell the house know, did you see what was going on outside.

Anyway this went back and forth for about 5 minutes. She then said well I need to go through the house and see what I need to take, when can I do this. To which I said Ill get back to you.

She then leaves, I dont say goodbye and continue to get ready for work.

I then text her: You are not to come back here again. Anything that you need send me a list and I will make sure you get it.

HEr response: I need to go through the house I dont even know whats there.

Unbe: The obviously its not that important and you don't NEED it. When we sell the house, you can come collect everything.

MB: Look, I dont care that your living there with someone (not true). I can legally come back with the cops to get my things (not anymore). Which is what my layer told me to do. I dont want to do that because it seems unnecessary and I think it would be embarrassing for you. I will do it for I have to. Let me know what you want to do.

I did not respond to this and put a call into my lawyer. Waiting on a call back.

What should be next step be? Im think RO?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> So here we go. Im getting ready for work this morning and a knock on the door occurs. I figured it was the construction guys needing me to move my car. I get dressed and answer the door and low and behold..MB is standing in the door way.
> 
> Unbe: What are you doing here?
> Mb: We need to talk
> Unbe: OK. What are you doing here?
> 
> She walks in...
> 
> Starts talking to me about her insurance changing and she will get me the new info. She has my spare key too my truck (which she doesnt give back to me) and something else about her taxes.
> 
> Unbe: I am still confused why you are here. You are not supposed to be here.
> 
> Mb: Well this is my house still.
> 
> As per our signed agreement she is no longer allowed to be there.
> 
> Unbe: Did you not read the paperwork you signed, you are not allowed to be here. You have to go.
> 
> Mb: I want my stuff (there is nothing left here expect boxes of books and a mirror). Half of everything in here is mine.
> 
> Unbe: You can have everything in here, I don't want any of it. When we sell the house. Until then everything stays. You can take your books and mirror now if you want.
> 
> Mb: Why cant we talk about this civilly. We have to sell the house.
> 
> Unbe: Im still confused why you are here. We cant sell the house know, did you see what was going on outside.
> 
> Anyway this went back and forth for about 5 minutes. She then said well I need to go through the house and see what I need to take, when can I do this. To which I said Ill get back to you.
> 
> She then leaves, I dont say goodbye and continue to get ready for work.
> 
> I then text her: You are not to come back here again. Anything that you need send me a list and I will make sure you get it.
> 
> HEr response: I need to go through the house I dont even know whats there.
> 
> Unbe: The obviously its not that important and you don't NEED it. When we sell the house, you can come collect everything.
> 
> MB: Look, I dont care that your living there with someone (not true). I can legally come back with the cops to get my things (not anymore). Which is what my layer told me to do. I dont want to do that because it seems unnecessary and I think it would be embarrassing for you. I will do it for I have to. Let me know what you want to do.
> 
> I did not respond to this and put a call into my lawyer. Waiting on a call back.
> 
> What should be next step be? Im think RO?


Get your truck re-keyed.


----------



## Chuck71

If you haven't ...... change the locks.

What RTZ said about truck.

File report..... see if you can get a RO / OOP until house is sold.

MB did not expect this..... this is a blow to her emotional ego.

Her 2nd visit... will either be the trench coat one I mentioned three months back or.... possibly a set-up.

MB has lost her control over you.... she doesn't like that.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> If you haven't ...... change the locks.
> 
> What RTZ said about truck.
> 
> File report..... see if you can get a RO / OOP until house is sold.
> 
> MB did not expect this..... this is a blow to her emotional ego.
> 
> Her 2nd visit... will either be the trench coat one I mentioned three months back or.... possibly a set-up.
> 
> MB has lost her control over you.... she doesn't like that.



Locks changed months ago...

There will not be a second visit.

I spoke to my layer, as per our agreement that she signed I have exclusive rights to the house and all contents until it is sold. She is not allowed to take anything out or show up.

My lawyer is drafting a letter to her stating she is to refrain from ever showing up again and if she does we will take legal action against her.

Game. Set. Match


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Who opens the door without first looking to see who's knocking?


----------



## unbe

ThreeStrikes said:


> Who opens the door without first looking to see who's knocking?


I cant see through the door unfortunately, no peep hole. I do get knocks frequently from the construction guys about moving my car so I figured that's what it was.


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Locks changed months ago...
> 
> There will not be a second visit.
> 
> I spoke to my layer, as per our agreement that she signed I have exclusive rights to the house and all contents until it is sold. She is not allowed to take anything out or show up.
> 
> My lawyer is drafting a letter to her stating she is to refrain from ever showing up again and if she does we will take legal action against her.
> 
> Game. Set. Match


No, it is not.

Right now, you are at set.

Match is her cuffed and stuffed in a local police car en route to a court appearance because you took the precautionary steps of a VAR, video, etc. before she showed up the second time.

This is FAR from over. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Locks changed months ago...
> 
> There will not be a second visit.
> 
> I spoke to my layer, as per our agreement that she signed I have exclusive rights to the house and all contents until it is sold. She is not allowed to take anything out or show up.
> 
> My lawyer is drafting a letter to her stating she is to refrain from ever showing up again and if she does we will take legal action against her.
> 
> Game. Set. Match


MB: Unbe... can we talk? Whatever happened to our love? Can I just hold you in my arms one more time?

As she sits outside the house in the road.... wearing a teddy.

Luke may very well have a final showdown. 

Vader was over-confident with OB-1 in SW III, and with Luke in VI. Each time.... he lost.

Don't be Vader, that's MBs job


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> No, it is not.
> 
> Right now, you are at set.
> 
> Match is her cuffed and stuffed in a local police car en route to a court appearance because you took the precautionary steps of a VAR, video, etc. before she showed up the second time.
> 
> This is FAR from over.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


We are there my friend. Video is already installed and has been for months. Var was in the car unfortunately, I will need to be more diligent with that going forward.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> MB: Unbe... can we talk? Whatever happened to our love? Can I just hold you in my arms one more time?
> 
> As she sits outside the house in the road.... wearing a teddy.
> 
> Luke may very well have a final showdown.
> 
> Vader was over-confident with OB-1 in SW III, and with Luke in VI. Each time.... he lost.
> 
> Don't be Vader, that's MBs job


This may very well come, but it wont be anytime soon. 

The longer the gap, the stronger I get.


----------



## Ceegee

Put me down for "do nothing".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe.... the whole point of everything we have said since the holidays is for you to get to where

you can "stand still." That is where you are in control of YOU. MB lost that control and is 

bouncing off the walls not knowing what to do. This is "new" to her.

Remember the Queen Lizard and little sister comment? That's why we want you to be still but

also "be ready"


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe.... the whole point of everything we have said since the holidays is for you to get to where
> 
> you can "stand still." That is where you are in control of YOU. MB lost that control and is
> 
> bouncing off the walls not knowing what to do. This is "new" to her.
> 
> Remember the Queen Lizard and little sister comment? That's why we want you to be still but
> 
> also "be ready"


My reality is I will be ready for anything in the future. I have no intention on responding to her last text and will let my lawyer do his job. 

I have bigger fish to fry, starting a new job in two weeks!


----------



## unbe

Oh forgot one last piece of info, she showed up in a black dress. hair and makeup done at 9:00am. no where to go....


----------



## Chuck71

LMFAO............ how "churchy" of her

Next up.... the Hot for Teacher at 9PM .... 

All ya need is a fat guy saying "Ten.... a fvcking teyun" 

You've got this covered..... IF... y'know... you will laugh about it down the road


----------



## unbe

Update:

Team Unbe sent a letter stating as per our signed agreement MB is to refrain from showing up at the martial home and attempting to take anything out of it without my permission and that as of now she does not have my permission to take anything.

MB responded asking when she can remove personal property (her books and a mirror) as holding them hostage is both unreasonaable and baseless (awe...)

my response to my lawyer which will be sent along:

"I offered her to provide me with a list of the things she wants and I will then make sure she gets them(that wasn't good enough for her). However I am not removing any furniture at this time. We can decide who gets what once we sell. Keep in mind the only "personal property" she has in the home is her books and the mirror. Everything else is martial property. 

She mentioned wanting her books and a mirror and a mixing bowl. I'm fine with that. If there's anything else she wants that's not furniture she can provide a list and I will send it (within reason of course). 

I can arrange to put anything requested in a storage unit for a month which I will pay for and provide her the key too. After a month I will stop paying for it.

Again I stress she is not to come back to the home unannounced again. Ever. "


good?


----------



## Chuck71

How horrible of you not giving her her books. I'm certain she would spend all summer reading.... LOL


----------



## farsidejunky

Good.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Update:

Hi Guys and Gals. Its been a few weeks since I have last been on. Lots going on since last update.

1- Started a new job, quit it for another job, quit that for another job which Im currently at now. 

2- MB has canceled health insurance which she agreed to keep in tact till all was processed. Also canceled tv service which was in her name again what she agreed to keep until all was final (all signed and documented)

3- Started dating a girl towards the end of June. Still dating today.

I have to admit I still do think of Mb from time to time. I will remaness in my mind however I can never remember any good times. I did love her however so that's what I miss. It maybe happens now once or twice a week for about 10 minutes then I remember what she did and who she really is and I fall back into reality. 

Her canceling the Health insurance really didn't trigger me, it made me angry and I will recoup and expenses I incurred when we close on the sale of the home (as per my lawyer). That's all I can really do now. I am already on my company's health plan. Again, she shows who she is.

Anyway, I finally landed in a good sport career wise and will ride this out. Its been 18 months since I felt like that, feels good.

Girl I met is fun, laid back and smart. Shes loves my dog which is a big plus!! Doesn't hurt that shes a knock out also!

All and all things are good, progressing well on all fronts. Life is going on the way its supposed to I guess.


----------



## Chuck71

MB had good qualities (everyone does) but made poor choices. Her problem now, not yours.


----------



## ReturntoZero

No more pop-in appearances with black dresses and the like?


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> No more pop-in appearances with black dresses and the like?


Nothing...been quite which is a bit scary from her. Maybe her boy toy came back for a second (or third or fifth) go around...either way my life is more peaceful for the time being


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> MB had good qualities (everyone does) but made poor choices. Her problem now, not yours.


MB's qualities are only good on the surface. Deep down shes manipulative, narsaccistic and only looks out for herself in EVERY interaction. That includes with her own family!

She did have a real tough childhood, I sympathize for her in that aspect however she has made no effort to improve. That's on her!


----------



## unbe

Lets keep in mind her "books" are still here. No word since....guess they weren't that important lol


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Lets keep in mind her "books" are still here. No word since....guess they weren't that important lol


Nah..... new school year starting up. Was just a ploy to get a reaction out of you.

Guess she bandaged herself up for someone else.... who knows, who cares.

You will hear from her a couple more times when the bandages fall off. As long as you are @ 50k

won't even phase you. You never stood up to her as you did this time......

Good bet MB schit her pants.... then felt an attraction.

MBs loss


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Good bet MB schit her pants.... then felt an attraction.
> 
> MBs loss


No doubt. Hence the canceling of the tv service to get 'back at me' for not falling for the trap.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> No doubt. Hence the canceling of the tv service to get 'back at me' for not falling for the trap.


Now you're on it.

It all makes "sense" from 50k

Of course, it's "non"sense, but you knew that.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> No doubt. Hence the canceling of the tv service to get 'back at me' for not falling for the trap.


By schit I'll show that damn Unbe to pay attention to me when I release all my anger dumps on him.

I'll turn his tv off.... ha ha ha ha ha! Then he will HAVE to talk to me! He better listen to me!!

What you just heard is Queen Lizard's little sister 

Unbe .... now if you re-read Group's thread, you will LYAO!

Always remember the soda machine analogy .......


----------



## farsidejunky

The soda machine is one I wont ever forget.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> The soda machine is one I wont ever forget.


I agree...makes total sense now.

Chances her she will find a new soda machine and exaust the contents of that for a while. Good thing now, I don't havwe to worry about filling it up ever again

Looks like the house will have to wait to be sold for about a year. MB was pushing so hard for that too...oh well lol

Perhaps she will get desperate for money and ask me to buy her out at which time I will offer her 10% of what she would be entitled too if we waited. You never know......

On a side note, Ive lost about 35 pounds and feel great (down to 175 now was close to 210), im 6'0

Summers been good, chilling on my deck overlooking Jamaica bay (I live on a canal) with a cold corona and my pupp by my side. My girl comes by, cleans the house, plays with my dog (amongst other things . We have fun...that's what lifes about. Work to live and enjoy my free time however I choose to. 

Side note: I thought the sex with MB was good...all I can say is WOW with this one. 

Guys, you know I was deep into it earlier this year. Taking June off to be myself did wonders. I have established my self worth and wont let anyone tell me otherwise.

My bro is getting married next year, my sis is due with twins any day now. Life is in progress and its filled with great things as long as your willing to look for them. 

The new girl (need a nickname here fellas) is strong willed which I like. We spar back and forth and I enjoy her witty-ness. She tries and genuinely wants to make me happy (she still doesn't know how to just yet and that's ok. She's trying and until she asks, I wont be volunteering that info. Let her work at it for a bit :wink2:

Seriously though, she's a good girl. We've introduced the friends into the frey and everyone seems to like everyone. Ive asked my crew to be brutally honest with me to make sure I don't run into the same prob I did with MB (everyone say it early on, I ignored it)

Enough about her....Ive gotta get to work. Enjoy the day fellas....


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> The new girl (need a nickname here fellas)



Hot Wheels?


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> Hot Wheels?


Sold! She drives a BMW...very fitting lol


----------



## unbe

So far all's quite on the MB front. 

Question about Hot wheels...I feel my first fitness test is upon me (7 weeks in)

HW loves her car...takes care of it very well. Feels it provides her a sense of accomplishment in her life.

There is construction on my street and she was hesitant at first to bring her car around by me but has been doing so for about 3 weeks now. 

Woke up this morning and apparently she had a flat but was able to drive 15 miles to work (obv not flat but a leak). I am sure it has to do with the construction around my nehigborhood.

Anyway I wake up to a text (she leaves for work before me) saying she got a flat. then 20 minutes later another text saying she has an apt to get it fixed at 5pm.

Now...my savior complex is ready to jump in and save the day here. I slipped up and said if she wanted to I could swap cars with her and get it taken care of during the day ( I work at a dealership).

The second I sent the text I recognized what I did...

She didn't respond to that text so I sent another in like an hour saying "Sucks you got a flat"

She responded " Im so pissed, I hate queens (where I live)"

Now, Im pissed I feel right back into saving the day the first chance I got!!! I need to work on this still obv and take a damn breath before I act.

My question is now that I am in this spot, how (if at all) do I respond to this text?


----------



## oneMOreguy

It's always OK to help someone who is deserving of your help, especially someone who is not always expecting and waiting for you to fix things. 

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

"Why do you hate Queens?"


----------



## Ceegee

Why respond at all?

She made a statement based on emotion. 

Leave it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

Why respond to your partner when she states a feeling?


----------



## Chuck71

"Me too..... queens are high maintenance."


----------



## Ceegee

turnera said:


> Why respond to your partner when she states a feeling?




I'm an ass. What can I say?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

Ceegee said:


> I'm an ass. What can I say?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The avatar says it all.


----------



## unbe

I went with saying nothing....not easy for me lol

Anyway, I did see her later on and we had dinner (yes in queens lol). It wasn't brought up at all on either end. When she got home I got this text

"Hi Honey Im home safe thank you for everything you do for me and caring so much xo"

My response:

"Your welcome, have a great night"

Winning!


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I went with saying nothing....not easy for me lol
> 
> Anyway, I did see her later on and we had dinner (yes in queens lol). It wasn't brought up at all on either end. When she got home I got this text
> 
> "Hi Honey Im home safe thank you for everything you do for me and caring so much xo"
> 
> My response:
> 
> "Your welcome, have a great night"
> 
> Winning!


Time for you to re-read Conrad's fitness test. This may have been the first but defiantly not the last.

I'm getting them now..... but @ 50k, they're somewhat humorous. 

Keep in mind, you are an ass too.... asses follow the lead of other asses.

You're in good "ass hands"


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Time for you to re-read Conrad's fitness test. This may have been the first but defiantly not the last.
> 
> I'm getting them now..... but @ 50k, they're somewhat humorous.
> 
> Keep in mind, you are an ass too.... asses follow the lead of other asses.
> 
> You're in good "ass hands"


I need to thank MB for allowing me to get out of the life fog I was in and get me to this point of clarity. 

Its so simple to see these test now its scary. When they come its almost humorous and I want to get to a point that not only will I overcome the challenge but then in turn start dropping some of my own.

That its Empire strikes back I believe...lol


----------



## unbe

Its MB's birthday Friday. Perhaps a action figure of Yoda sent to her house with a thank you note unsigned is fitting..

Thoughts?


----------



## Chuck71

He!! no............. send her the matchbox you intended to back in 2014. To: Matchbox

From: Padawan Un-be-1

On your anniversary, 1st one as D, send her a dildo shaped like a light sabre... one that lights up in dark


----------



## unbe

So I was feelin saucy this weekend and decided to send my thank you letter to MB.

MB,

First off I want to wish you a happy birthday, hope you are doing well. 

I wanted to thank you for having the strength to see us through this divorce. After much reflection I can see how this will be better for both of us in the long run. I also want to apologize for any immature decision I have made during this process, I have no excuse.

Things are going incredibly well for me. Id love to tell you about all this.....one day.

Any, I do wish you a happy birthday and thank you again for setting me free.

-Unbe.


I want your guys thoughts first before I tell you her response.


----------



## farsidejunky

I wouldn't have sent it. It is clearly a baited hook.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> I wouldn't have sent it. It is clearly a baited hook.


that's a fair statement


----------



## Chuck71

Before you unveil what MB replied with.......... what type of response were you "expecting"


----------



## Ceegee

What did HotWheels think about your letter?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Before you unveil what MB replied with.......... what type of response were you "expecting"


wasn't excepting a response at all....


----------



## unbe

Ceegee said:


> What did HotWheels think about your letter?


didn't even think to cross my mind to ask her opinion about it. Shes not the jealous type so I doubt she would care.


----------



## unbe

Her response:

Thank you for reaching out to me, that meant so much to me. I really would love to see you. I am so sorry for everything and I wish I could go back in time and make it never happen. 

My response:

I don't think my girlfriend would like that very much, take care of yourself.

She then proceeded to call and text me on Monday. I told her I couldn't talk at work and didn't respond to any texts.


----------



## Ceegee

unbe said:


> My response:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think my girlfriend would like that very much, take care of yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> She then proceeded to call and text me on Monday. I told her I couldn't talk at work and didn't respond to any texts.



Hence my question about what HW thought about your message. 

You come across as playing games. 

Your GF wouldn't like you meeting up with XW. Would she like you sending that message?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Sending this letter benefited you in what way?


----------



## farsidejunky

Unbe, this is sort of like a high school move TBH. 

It is understandable to want some retribution. But this?

"Oooooooooooo, gotcha!"

Totally 9th grade...


----------



## unbe

Ill admit, I sent this letter to ruin her birthday. Childish, yes. If this is all she gets out of this, shes gotten off scott free.

It did make me feel better though. Thinking back, I would send it again.


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Ill admit, I sent this letter to ruin her birthday. Childish, yes. If this is all she gets out of this, shes gotten off scott free.
> 
> It did make me feel better though. Thinking back, I would send it again.


Then you still have a hell of a long way to go.

Good luck.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> Then you still have a hell of a long way to go.
> 
> Good luck.


Actually I completely disagree. The old UNBE would have jumped at the opportunity to meet up and plead for forgiveness. The new UNBE scoffs at the thought.


----------



## farsidejunky

The new Unbe may not be as codependent on her, but he still has a hell of a lot of growing up to do.

The victim chair is causing you to justify the unjustifiable.


----------



## ButtPunch

That letter tells me you are far from detaching.


----------



## unbe

It really angers me that I still care for this women....there are times I wake up and wonder.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Ill admit, I sent this letter to ruin her birthday. Childish, yes. If this is all she gets out of this, shes gotten off scott free.
> 
> It did make me feel better though. Thinking back, I would send it again.


We work through things.

If this is a part of that process, great.

Make certain that's ALL it is.

Be honest with yourself. No more of this.


----------



## Chuck71

Was I bitter, angry and pizzed off almost four years ago? Bet your arse I was.

But Chucky... didn't you kind of want out too? Yes I did. But would you have fought for it if

she came to you and said "let's fight for this," I would have. Once M, always M, fight it out.

Dunno if she cheated, really didn't matter when she just walked out. I was forced to step into the light.

So very glad I did. All the anger and bitterness washed away. Two months after DDay... she made more reaches

for me than a Roman bathhouse on dime beer night. The point is......

I waited and just as I expected.... she fell into the exact holes I anticipated. Did I get satisfaction and 

laughs out of it, yes I did. But she fell into those holes on..... her...... own. No help from no one.

Unbe... the vindication you seek..... can be felt by you moving forward.

My closure / final vindication came a year after D when Window Cork met me at my favorite bistro,

paid for dinner, and asked if we could start dating again. Had that happened a month after our D, I'd like to

say I would have rebuffed her attempts. A year after D... cool, firm, dispassionate to the core.

Humans tend to want certain things without investigating the pitfalls... then they have buyer's remorse.

Reason we all say give defiant people what they want, it rarely ever turns out as they had planned.

Unbe... will you get the chance for vindication with MB? No one knows but I will say this.... I think

you will, strongly certain. But here's the deal... you have to work on yourself, improve, discover the real Unbe...

to even notice her feeble arse attempts to re-enter your life. Either way it goes, you HAVE to work

on YOURSELF. If MB never tries to come back... you have improved yourself for the next LTR.

Read my 1st signature below. But if she does... by improving YOU, you will have the clear 110% upper hand.

And you can tell MB, what I told WC.... the book on us has been completed a long time ago.

Unbe... if you really like this girl... date her. If you are using her to get over MB... it's not fair to her

or yourself. That would just be band-aiding the cut. A cut needs air to heal.


----------



## farsidejunky

Chuck71 said:


> Two months after DDay... she made more reaches
> 
> for me than a Roman bathhouse on dime beer night.


:rofl:


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Was I bitter, angry and pizzed off almost four years ago? Bet your arse I was.
> 
> But Chucky... didn't you kind of want out too? Yes I did. But would you have fought for it if
> 
> she came to you and said "let's fight for this," I would have. Once M, always M, fight it out.
> 
> Dunno if she cheated, really didn't matter when she just walked out. I was forced to step into the light.
> 
> So very glad I did. All the anger and bitterness washed away. Two months after DDay... she made more reaches
> 
> for me than a Roman bathhouse on dime beer night. The point is......
> 
> I waited and just as I expected.... she fell into the exact holes I anticipated. Did I get satisfaction and
> 
> laughs out of it, yes I did. But she fell into those holes on..... her...... own. No help from no one.
> 
> Unbe... the vindication you seek..... can be felt by you moving forward.
> 
> My closure / final vindication came a year after D when Window Cork met me at my favorite bistro,
> 
> paid for dinner, and asked if we could start dating again. Had that happened a month after our D, I'd like to
> 
> say I would have rebuffed her attempts. A year after D... cool, firm, dispassionate to the core.
> 
> Humans tend to want certain things without investigating the pitfalls... then they have buyer's remorse.
> 
> Reason we all say give defiant people what they want, it rarely ever turns out as they had planned.
> 
> Unbe... will you get the chance for vindication with MB? No one knows but I will say this.... I think
> 
> you will, strongly certain. But here's the deal... you have to work on yourself, improve, discover the real Unbe...
> 
> to even notice her feeble arse attempts to re-enter your life. Either way it goes, you HAVE to work
> 
> on YOURSELF. If MB never tries to come back... you have improved yourself for the next LTR.
> 
> Read my 1st signature below. But if she does... by improving YOU, you will have the clear 110% upper hand.
> 
> And you can tell MB, what I told WC.... the book on us has been completed a long time ago.
> 
> Unbe... if you really like this girl... date her. If you are using her to get over MB... it's not fair to her
> 
> or yourself. That would just be band-aiding the cut. A cut needs air to heal.


chuck,

this really hit home...thank you. I do like hw but my guard is up which I feel may not be fair for her...


----------



## Chuck71

HW has already asked a bit about MB. I'm not asking what you said.... but was it truthful?

I don't think you are pining for MB, you are just having trouble letting go.

Completely normal...

By her words... you may never get the full disclosure

but her actions will tell volumes.


----------



## ReturntoZero

If "having your guard up" means you won't jump directly into the Weeds of Codependence, that's a good thing.


----------



## unbe

Update:

MB reached out again today. Sent me a new insurance card? 

I have my own insurance so Im not sure why she sent this. I haven't responded nor do I plan on doing so.

My sis gave birth yesterday to twins. The first grandkids for my mom. I was overwhelmed with emotion, happy for her and my mom. Excited to have two new additions to the family. Honestly, sadness that I wasn't able to give my mother the first grand kids (I am the oldest). Also, a strong feeling like I haven't accomplished a gd thing in life.


----------



## turnera

unbe, all parents want is to have happy, healthy children who can overcome adversity. They don't keep tabs on who does what, and when. You're making your family proud. Believe it.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> MB reached out again today. Sent me a new insurance card?
> 
> I have my own insurance so Im not sure why she sent this. I haven't responded nor do I plan on doing so.
> 
> My sis gave birth yesterday to twins. The first grandkids for my mom. I was overwhelmed with emotion, happy for her and my mom. Excited to have two new additions to the family. *Honestly, sadness that I wasn't able to give my mother the first grand kids (I am the oldest). Also, a strong feeling like I haven't accomplished a gd thing in life*.


Turnera is 110% correct BUT........ I know EXACTLY how you feel... and I'm about a decade older.

Society has this odd perception that if you don't marry and reproduce, your life was a waste.

Not as bad as 50-75-100 years ago but it's still "mainstream."

One thing I have concluded is... my pop was the bad boy / black sheep / he!! raiser. Not exactly the type

you'd want to have kids with. Mom... the 60's hot drama queen. They mixed like oil n water.

They were the couple that really never should have kids.... but we all know how that goes.

I do now acknowledge ... if I envision myself choosing someone with mom's characteristics.....

and me being way too similar to pop.... I'd rather never have a child. History will not repeat itself.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Turnera is 110% correct BUT........ I know EXACTLY how you feel... and I'm about a decade older.
> 
> Society has this odd perception that if you don't marry and reproduce, your life was a waste.
> 
> Not as bad as 50-75-100 years ago but it's still "mainstream."
> 
> One thing I have concluded is... my pop was the bad boy / black sheep / he!! raiser. Not exactly the type
> 
> you'd want to have kids with. Mom... the 60's hot drama queen. They mixed like oil n water.
> 
> They were the couple that really never should have kids.... but we all know how that goes.
> 
> I do now acknowledge ... if I envision myself choosing someone with mom's characteristics.....
> 
> and me being way too similar to pop.... I'd rather never have a child. History will not repeat itself.


Ive always been on the fence about children. With my first wife I could have seen it, MB never! Now I feel I would be too old to start a family even if I wanted to which if you asked me today I couldn't give you an honest answer either way.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Ive always been on the fence about children. With my first wife I could have seen it, MB never! Now I feel I would be *too old to start a family *even if I wanted to which if you asked me today I couldn't give you an honest answer either way.


Hear that too.... even heard it from.... mom. Yes the one who held out to 27 to get preggy in an

age where you were considered a spinster for not having kids by the age of 22.

You hear... when your kids graduate HS, you'll be.... Ever notice you hear a lot of this schit from

people who had five kids by age 25? Ironic ain't it! Would I do a better job raising a child at age 45

than 25? Oh yeah.... no question. At 25 I closed bars, drag raced, went fishing almost daily.

Yeah... great father material huh! Then you hear about the age gap, then ......, then...... etc.

Most white collar guys M between 25-32. Rocky M, hesitant to have kids... after the dust clears... 35-42,

no kids. Then you find yourself dating girls who may have a blue collar dad.... you went to HS with.

Life isn't that complicated, humans just make it such. Do what you feel is right for YOU....

and apologize to no f'ing body.


----------



## unbe

question for the masses:

So HW is a good girl. She is 35 and has never been married (was engaged for 4 years but never went through with it, that was 4 years ago). She doesn't have much motivation, she is a pot head. Now, I smoke weed also but not like her. She is clearly addicted to it and has been for quite some time. The fact that she smokes weed doesn't bother me. However, the fact that she doesn't have much to say and we have log periods of silence is kind of unsettling. 

My mom says its normal to have periods of silence like this and perhaps it is. MB never shut up so that's kind of what I am use too, she was an extreme however.

Hw and I get along great, we have a lot in common, shes very easy going, loves animals which is important to me and a non negotiable. We have amazing sex and our friends rave about us. 

The fact that we do have these periods of silence isn't a deal breaker obv, just a concern I have. My question is, is it a valid concern?


----------



## Tron

Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who is checked out most of the time?

What is she trying to escape?


----------



## unbe

Tron said:


> Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who is checked out most of the time?
> 
> What is she trying to escape?


I don't think shes trying to escape anything, she just likes being stoned. I like it too, just not everday...all day


----------



## Chuck71

No addiction ever ends well.... pot, booze, cigarettes, eating, starving, nasal spray.. etc.

Taking a toke before.... sex, I get that. But around a qt. bag a day? That's $$ in NY.

When she is silent, is it that "DUH" stare? That's also the best time to ask her....

What happened to her to make her rely so much on pot?

People drink to either celebrate, remember, or to forget. Pot is no different in excess...


----------



## Tron

Chuck71 said:


> When she is silent, is it that "DUH" stare? That's also the best time to ask her....
> 
> What happened to her to make her rely so much on pot?
> 
> People drink to either celebrate, remember, or to forget. Pot is no different in excess...



That is a helluva lot of celebratin'. Methinks it is one of the others.

Either way, that doesn't bode well. It sounds like most of what you have in common is that you like to get stoned together and F!.

Is that acceptable to you or are you looking for something a more meaningful? She sounds like she may not be capable of much more.

And are you interested in ever having kids? Because if you are, you might just accept that this one might be fun for a little while, but eventually you will need to move on.


----------



## Chuck71

Tron said:


> That is a helluva lot of celebratin'. Methinks it is one of the others.
> 
> Either way, that doesn't bode well. It sounds like most of what you have in common is that you like to get stoned together and F!.
> 
> Is that acceptable to you or are you looking for something a more meaningful? She sounds like she may not be capable of much more.
> 
> And are you interested in ever having kids? Because if you are, you might just accept that this one might be fun for a little while, but eventually you will need to move on.


A ball card buyer I have has been sober almost ten years. He said he drank to celebrate his team's win,

drank after a loss to forget. Either way... he drank. Then he said, "I once drank from the bottle, 

then the bottle drank from me." That statement hit me.... it was exactly how pop ended up.

Unbe.... this type of rebound gal isn't meant for the long haul.... but you will not realize this until later.

A qt bag might last me around a year. Smoke it to just smoke it.... nah....

But some do it and are very creative.... but not the DUH ones.... that's more Bevis n Butthead....

The crowd I hung with in HS and college. Them.... the ones I still keep in contact with, they're

the same person now... they were in 1991, except one.


----------



## unbe

Tron said:


> That is a helluva lot of celebratin'. Methinks it is one of the others.
> 
> Either way, that doesn't bode well. It sounds like most of what you have in common is that you like to get stoned together and F!.
> 
> Is that acceptable to you or are you looking for something a more meaningful? She sounds like she may not be capable of much more.
> 
> And are you interested in ever having kids? Because if you are, you might just accept that this one might be fun for a little while, but eventually you will need to move on.


This! 

Part of me breaking co-dep is recognizing this and having the strength to move on. 

Its clear I don't have it yet


----------



## Chuck71

You may not like them.... but if they like you more...... you just can't leave her.

That would make you a cold person...... sound familiar????


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Ive always been on the fence about children. With my first wife I could have seen it, MB never! Now I feel I would be too old to start a family even if I wanted to which if you asked me today I couldn't give you an honest answer either way.


My father sired me when he was 42.

He never seemed old to me.

Pull your head out Unbe


----------



## Tron

I had my youngest at 41...I don't think I'm too old to hang with him. At least right now. We have a pretty good time together.


----------



## unbe

So had a talk with HW yesterday. I wasn't happy about her not wanting to go to the hospital and decided to voice my opinon. This turned into a complain fest about how she is under so much stress because she has to pack and unpack every weekend (she stays by my house usually thurs night till mon night then goes back to her dads). Shes saying its too stressful to have to pick outfits out for this time. Also, she doesn't have time to clean her house or update her resume. I told her she can use my computer, she obv wasn't looking for any solutions just to complain.

My response was, 

unbe: "your right. I don't know what its like to pack and unpack every week. You have to decide whats best for you. I am done trying to solve other peoples problems"

Hw: maybe I will just come on the weekends and stay home more. 

unbe: you need to do whats best for you

Hw: I love you and love what we have. (First time she has said she loves me). I am just too stressed out about all of this.

unbe: Ok. So lets take this week by week. Don't come thursday night (she was planning too) and Ill see you Friday. Maybe next weekend you don't stay by me at all.

Hw: ok

Later on last night we are saying goodnight. She says: "Ok, so Ill see you tomorrow night"

Another sh$t test perhaps?


----------



## farsidejunky

It says a lot about how you value yourself when you're considering somebody who stays high all day, lives with her father in her thirties, and won't get a job, as a possible keeper.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> It says a lot about how you value yourself when you're considering somebody who stays high all day, lives with her father in her thirties, and won't get a job, as a possible keeper.


She has a job




your not wrong.....


----------



## Tron

unbe said:


> Later on last night we are saying goodnight. She says: "Ok, so Ill see you tomorrow night"
> 
> Another sh$t test perhaps?


Or, more likely, she's high and doesn't remember what she says one minute to the next.


----------



## turnera

unbe said:


> Shes saying its too stressful to have to pick outfits out for this time.


 Typical stoner response. Anything is too much trouble when you're stoned all the time. That's what pot does to you. There's a reason for the description about the 40 year old pothead living in his mom's basement.



> Don't come thursday night (she was planning too) and Ill see you Friday. Maybe next weekend you don't stay by me at all.
> 
> Hw: ok
> 
> Later on last night we are saying goodnight. She says: "Ok, so Ill see you tomorrow night"
> 
> Another sh$t test perhaps?


No, just typical stoner response; too numb to remember what they've even been thinking.

You're with her, I think, because she's easy. Not sexually, just she makes for an easy relationship. You don't have to actually do any work on changing, yourself, by keeping her around. You don't have to learn to be ok alone.

But you can do better.


----------



## unbe

turnera said:


> Typical stoner response. Anything is too much trouble when you're stoned all the time. That's what pot does to you. There's a reason for the description about the 40 year old pothead living in his mom's basement.
> 
> No, just typical stoner response; too numb to remember what they've even been thinking.
> 
> You're with her, I think, because she's easy. Not sexually, just she makes for an easy relationship. You don't have to actually do any work on changing, yourself, by keeping her around. You don't have to learn to be ok alone.
> 
> But you can do better.


Your not the only one saying this. Pretty much my friends response to any question I ask is she is a stoner.

Is it impossible to hane a long term R with someone like this?


----------



## unbe

She does have very good qualities, many of which I would be looking for in a partner.


----------



## Tron

Such as?

So far the picture you've painted isn't good and that is all we have to go on.


----------



## Chuck71

I can go on all day about my pop and his deekhead behavior but... he was there to teach as well.

"There are some women... you just date, hang out with, take them in the back seat but you don't marry

them or bring them home to meet your momma." Wha... What happens to them?

"They're Fups and they marry other Fups and have baby Fups and you see them in the jail dockets,

flop houses or if they're lucky, a relative gives them a place to stay where they sit around and

get wasted, playing records backwards and die."

Unbe.... why is she still living with her dad? Remember the teacher you dated six months back....

had all her schit at her dad's place when you dropped her off? For all we know, she moved back in with her

dad temporary after the broken engagement. Or she could be a 20 year veteran of bong making who

never accepted responsibility for anything and will live at home with her parent(s).

If she drank 36 beers a day, would that bother you? That's about the same as a qt. a day.

Go back and check out my post around 7/1/2015... Crossroads II. When I met the older woman, she got

wasted and went all DUH on me, and cared for her lil brother who was drinking 32 oz. beers like it was water.

Took me one night to say oh he!! no. But Chuck 1987 would have loved to hang like that! Just not Chuck 2015.

Unbe 1996 would have loved to date HW. Might have dated a few years... maybe she'd clean up her act and

be responsible, who knows, that's 1996. Unbe 2016 may still want to date a female as HW... schit

Chuck 2016 might too... but it's just a FWB.... no way could I take her seriously.

HW has virtually "moved in" with you.... she answers your two basic needs.... Am I hungry? Am I horny?

Your 1st W wanted a bad boy, MB wanted a savior, HW wants a daddy / provider. 

You're spinning your damn wheels Unbe....


----------



## turnera

Why don't you just picture your dream girl in your head, write down THOSE qualities and start looking for someone who meets most of them and rejecting those who don't.


----------



## ReturntoZero

turnera said:


> Why don't you just picture your dream girl in your head, write down THOSE qualities and start looking for someone who meets most of them and rejecting those who don't.


Or, better yet, start living your life with vigor and drive and let her find you.


----------



## MJJEAN

unbe said:


> question for the masses:
> 
> So HW is a good girl. She is 35 and has never been married (was engaged for 4 years but never went through with it, that was 4 years ago). She doesn't have much motivation, she is a pot head. Now, I smoke weed also but not like her. She is clearly addicted to it and has been for quite some time. The fact that she smokes weed doesn't bother me. However, the fact that she doesn't have much to say and we have log periods of silence is kind of unsettling.
> 
> My mom says its normal to have periods of silence like this and perhaps it is. MB never shut up so that's kind of what I am use too, she was an extreme however.
> 
> Hw and I get along great, we have a lot in common, shes very easy going, loves animals which is important to me and a non negotiable. We have amazing sex and our friends rave about us.
> 
> The fact that we do have these periods of silence isn't a deal breaker obv, just a concern I have. My question is, is it a valid concern?


DH and I spend a LOT of time together. We have periods of intense conversation and periods of comfortable silence. I am a talker that came from a large and loud family. DH was youngest child by many years in a much more WASP family. It took me some time to realize silence did not mean something amiss and to find silence comfortable. Now I enjoy his presence without feeling obligated to talk or listen. Silence can be very relaxing and peaceful.

Is this relationship right for you? Maybe, maybe not. Silences here and there shouldn't be a dealbreaker in a relationship, though. They're quite normal.


----------



## unbe

When am I going to get past the settling for things I know aren't for me?

Full disclosure

I knew my first wife wasn't the one 2 years prior to getting married, did it anyway

I new MB wasn't the one and I couldn't trust her, married her anyway

I know HW isn't the one, still cant manage the strength to break free

WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME??


----------



## Chuck71

Marriage of convenience? Got tired of chasing tail and thought as long as I get tail from W, I'll be happy?

You're certainly not alone. Anytime I hear "I'd just like to meet a girl and settle down, I'm so so tired

of the games." I shake my head, smile, say -You truly do not know games until your marry-


----------



## unbe

Got word, its done! Finalized and im officially a free man


----------



## Chuck71

Congratulations!!!!! How did you circumvent the one year waiting period?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Congratulations!!!!! How did you circumvent the one year waiting period?


Basically, we lied!

Speak of the devil, just got off the phone with MB.

She had asked some questions reg the house sale and arranging pick up of some things (the infamous books lol). I told her my offer still stands to let me know what she needs and I will arrange getting it to her however she is not to come to the house. 

Then she started complaining about how her life was so hard. I didn't indulged in this. I did ask how her family was doing though, afterall I did like them.

She mentioned how her mom kicked her out and she had no where to live. She wss sleeping on peoples couches. (no doubt it was around one of the times she tried to reach out, looking to be saved)

Also mentioned how she cant afford pots and pans for her place and she cant afford her car anymore can I help her out of it. 

I said have it repoed...

Stay tuned lol....


----------



## Chuck71

Awwww and wittle MB tought she was getting EXACTLY what she wanted. Sucks don't it!

I couldn't pass up the chance to say -I'm glad you got what you wanted in the end- but that's me.

She was defiant, you gave her her wish.

It ain't over with MB yet..... but you can see the finish line on the horizon now.

How ya feel? Relieved? Excited? Bit nostalgic? BTW I was all three


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Awwww and wittle MB tought she was getting EXACTLY what she wanted. Sucks don't it!
> 
> I couldn't pass up the chance to say -I'm glad you got what you wanted in the end- but that's me.
> 
> She was defiant, you gave her her wish.
> 
> It ain't over with MB yet..... but you can see the finish line on the horizon now.
> 
> How ya feel? Relieved? Excited? Bit nostalgic? BTW I was all three


Now the the D is final- I feel settled.

After I heard how her life is- I feel satisfied

I have been a little nostalgic over the last month. 

I feel bad for her, I also am relieved its no longer my problem!


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Basically, we lied!
> 
> Speak of the devil, just got off the phone with MB.
> 
> She had asked some questions reg the house sale and arranging pick up of some things (the infamous books lol). I told her my offer still stands to let me know what she needs and I will arrange getting it to her however she is not to come to the house.
> 
> Then she started complaining about how her life was so hard. I didn't indulged in this. I did ask how her family was doing though, afterall I did like them.
> 
> She mentioned how her mom kicked her out and she had no where to live. She wss sleeping on peoples couches. (no doubt it was around one of the times she tried to reach out, looking to be saved)
> 
> Also mentioned how she cant afford pots and pans for her place and she cant afford her car anymore can I help her out of it.
> 
> I said have it repoed...
> 
> Stay tuned lol....


Well done, sir.


----------



## ReturntoZero

Chuck71 said:


> Marriage of convenience? Got tired of chasing tail and thought as long as I get tail from W, I'll be happy?
> 
> You're certainly not alone. Anytime I hear "I'd just like to meet a girl and settle down, I'm so so tired
> 
> of the games." I shake my head, smile, say -You truly do not know games until your marry-


Wise man.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Basically, we lied!
> 
> Speak of the devil, just got off the phone with MB.
> 
> She had asked some questions reg the house sale and arranging pick up of some things (the infamous books lol). I told her my offer still stands to let me know what she needs and I will arrange getting it to her however she is not to come to the house.
> 
> Then she started complaining about how her life was so hard. I didn't indulged in this. I did ask how her family was doing though, afterall I did like them.
> 
> She mentioned how her mom kicked her out and she had no where to live. She wss sleeping on peoples couches. (no doubt it was around one of the times she tried to reach out, looking to be saved)
> 
> Also mentioned how she cant afford pots and pans for her place and she cant afford her car anymore can I help her out of it.
> 
> I said have it repoed...
> 
> Stay tuned lol....


Do you still have the MatchBox car we told you to get?


----------



## Lifescript

turnera said:


> Why don't you just picture your dream girl in your head, write down THOSE qualities and start looking for someone who meets most of them and rejecting those who don't.


There's no dream girl or anything T. 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifescript

Good job unbe. I know the feeling of being relieved. My D took years to be over. Ugh ... get rid of HW. You deserve better man. You truly do. 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> Good job unbe. I know the feeling of being relieved. My D took years to be over. Ugh ... get rid of HW. You deserve better man. You truly do.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


I know I do and I will, when im ready.

For now, nothing wrong with some good sex and having my house/laundry clean


----------



## Chuck71

WHAT? WHAT? No breakfast in bed with her in a French maid? C'mon now Unbe......


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> WHAT? WHAT? No breakfast in bed with her in a French maid? C'mon now Unbe......


She doesn't like to wear clothes at my house.....who am I to argue that?


----------



## Chuck71

Role play..... realtor and buyer. Just sayin......


----------



## Lifescript

unbe said:


> I know I do and I will, when im ready.
> 
> For now, nothing wrong with some good sex and having my house/laundry clean


If you don't get too attached is all good but in my experience that's not an easy thing to do especially if she's pretty and sex is hot. 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


----------



## unbe

Lifescript said:


> If you don't get too attached is all good but in my experience that's not an easy thing to do especially if she's pretty and sex is hot.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


So MB reached out...Supposed to meet up to give her some stuff from the house. I told her id get back to her with a date last week, I haven't yet. My thoughts are to buy a storage unit for one month starting Oct 1. get the stuff in there and send her the key. I haven't shared this with her yet.

MB: Hey good morning. So tomorrow Im have some free time do you think we can meet up and you can give me whatever you can fit in your car. 

Unbe: Tomorrow doesn't work. I will get back to you next week with a date.

MB: Ok. The XXX payment didn't go though this month, I am not sure why. (she was making this payment as per our agreement until the D was official. I take it over as of Oct). I was unable to log into the account to resubmit it. Can you make this payment? 

Unbe: I will not make this payment. I was able to log in using the same login credentials you provided to me last month. Do you want me to resubmit it for you?

Mb: I no longer have a bank account attached to it. I will call and make the payment.


Mb: I was able to make the payment over the phone. Sorry for being a pain in the a$$ and an inconvenience. 

LOL....Really????


----------



## farsidejunky

"Please fix it for me, @unbe!"


----------



## unbe

Guys, what am I in store for here? This seems to be following a script. Whats the time line?


----------



## farsidejunky

Timeline for what?


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> Timeline for what?


What to expect I guess in the future with MB

Is there a standard timeline that waywards follow in these cases? Just trying to prepare myself.


----------



## Chuck71

Even though your D is final..... MB will continue to expect you to be her de facto H.

Get the unit, send her the key. The more you relinquish yourself from her, quicker the recovery.

MB will leave you alone when she snags another guy.


----------



## farsidejunky

Until you stop responding to her.

Going dark is the only way to deal with her.


----------



## Chuck71

Are there any type of bills you and MB are still tied to?

If not.... drop her like a Mormon smokes a ham after sex.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Are there any type of bills you and MB are still tied to?
> 
> If not.... drop her like a Mormon smokes a ham after sex.


We still have the house....that wont disappear until next year.

I am paying all the bills until then associated to the home (living their obvs)

Worked out a deal though, any mortgage payments I make during this time I get back when we sell...then we split whats left over  So basically imn living here for free and by the time we sell it will be almost 18 months of it.

LOVE the fog...LOVE IT


----------



## Chuck71

Do you get the full payment or.... just the principle?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Do you get the full payment or.... just the principle?


Full! ..fog is strong my friend


----------



## Chuck71

You are best to market that GD fog. You'll own Manhattan by 2032


----------



## unbe

Update:

Now that its official I have been finding myself being nostalgic about the good times and expeiricng moments of weakness in wanting to reach out. I will not act on these however I feel it is important to acknowledge these feelings.

Although I understand my marriage was a fraud, it sill hurts just the same to get rejected by a person whom I felt so strongly over.

In any event life goes on...

HW is still around, she has followed through on her word of being home more to take care of things that are overwhelming to her however would be considered normal day to day tasks to others. I feel her pulling away is more that she feels she's losing her independence and wants to hold onto it. Fine by me...I'm not looking for anything more anyway. I will end this at some point, but why now? No real reason too so I wont....


----------



## Chuck71

Yeah..... I get it. He!! I still and will love who WC "was" many years ago. Right now... as I type, WC is 

mounting a full court press on me. Doesn't matter... WC is a dreamer. Huge difference in a 

dreamer and an innovator. MB is a dreamer as well. Wouldn't surprise me if she came to your

door and asked to move back in tomorrow. THAT is how they think. 

Did I miss a lot of WCs great qualities after the D.... yes I did. Enough to accept her reaches? Oh he!! no!

I sat down and wrote a short story about our first few years... aka The High Cotton Years.

Helped a great deal in moving on from the part of her I did miss. But there were a great deal more

I didn't miss at all. Y'know.... kinda like how you feel about MB. 

Don't remember who she WAS, notice who she IS.

As for HW.... hang out, get kinky, enjoy it. She is your FWB... like the one I had from Jan. 2015 until

this spring. Just don't lead her on.... promise the moon.... map out your future together.

There's a really good chance HW already knows this, females are very keen on knowing where

the relationship is going. She don't bring it up, you don't either. It's a ride at Six Flags... fun, exciting...

but eventually you get off the ride. What you don't do is feel an obligation to her if this lasts

nine months-year- or more. "Well HW has been with me awhile... guess I have to M her"

That is when HW will turn into MB II


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOU4TWGSxZM


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Don't remember who she WAS, notice who she IS.


This is KEY!!!! Time gets me to this. Until then I need to navigate carefully


----------



## Chuck71

Anytime you get reminiscing and nostalgic... just remember, if this last go around had ended like the 

first two... you'd be right back with her.... while she vagina bombs you... so you quit asking all the 

important questions which should be asked during a separation. Just think... the holidays aren't that far off....

that's usually when MB spins out. You'd just be over the third time and a fourth would be upcoming. 

You've been devastated a lot this year but.... look how far you've came.

You don't realize it yet.... completely normal. But we do...... 

I didn't realize mine either.... but others did....


----------



## unbe

Update on HW:

Ok so a few weeks back I had wrote about how HW had a breakdown about not being at her house enough and that shes been spending too much time at my place. She has followed through with her plan of only coming on the weekends, this has been going on for about two weeks now. 

So like the previous weeks, she was supposed to come by tonight.

Just got a text which seems like a sh$t test to me, wondering your thoughts.

Hey good morning. FYI I'm gonna watch the kids (her sisters kids) tonight at 7ish. Your welcome to join.

Response?


----------



## Tron

Doing a favor for her sister, obligated herself to look after her niece/nephew and would like your company. 

Only a fitness test to the extent that maybe she wants to see how well you relate to kids...


----------



## unbe

Tron said:


> Doing a favor for her sister, obligated herself to look after her niece/nephew and would like your company.
> 
> Only a fitness test to the extent that maybe she wants to see how well you relate to kids...


She does LOVE these kids...she loves all kids actually


----------



## ButtPunch

I don't see the fitness test here at all. 

Looks like an invite to me.


----------



## Tron

unbe said:


> She does LOVE these kids...she loves all kids actually


So why doesn't she have any of her own?


----------



## unbe

Tron said:


> So why doesn't she have any of her own?


Damn good question. I think its because she loves her independence just a little more.


----------



## unbe

ButtPunch said:


> I don't see the fitness test here at all.
> 
> Looks like an invite to me.


Just feel its strange that she didn't even mention the plans we had tonight and basically just said FU to them


----------



## Chuck71

If you had prior plans and she accepted her sister's offer and offered you to come over with her......

Tells me a lot about how she values the plans you made for you and her.

"Unbe.... I know you may be upset but I have to cancel our plans tonight. My sister xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

but I'd love for yo to come over." 

The plans.... were they important or just to "hang out"


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> If you had prior plans and she accepted her sister's offer and offered you to come over with her......
> 
> Tells me a lot about how she values the plans you made for you and her.
> 
> "Unbe.... I know you may be upset but I have to cancel our plans tonight. My sister xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> but I'd love for yo to come over."
> 
> The plans.... were they important or just to "hang out"


plans where not important chuck...


----------



## ButtPunch

unbe said:


> plans where not important chuck...


Then what do you want to do?

Either go out and have some fun without her or join her babysitting.


----------



## unbe

ButtPunch said:


> Then what do you want to do?
> 
> Either go out and have some fun without her or join her babysitting.


Heres my feelings and I acknowledge they are wrong.

I don't want to go with her just to spite her for breaking plans with me without any regard. Its a childish way to think I know this.

Im glad I didn't respond right away and talked it out first.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Heres my feelings and I acknowledge they are wrong.
> 
> I don't want to go with her just to spite her for breaking plans with me without any regard. Its a childish way to think I know this.
> 
> Im glad I didn't respond right away and talked it out first.


And you're the one who is "tired of the games'?

LOL


----------



## unbe

Update:

I feel like im stuck in a rut lately. In a sort of limbo. I cant sell the house for a few more months, work is eh at best (its not challenging work, pay is ok at best) 

I feel my life needs a total reboot. Job, living situation, HW. 

I am OK with everything but why settle for just OK? 

Im thinking about going back to school to get a degree. Been a sales person my whole life, if I want to make a career change a degree is going to be necessary. IC is pushing for me to get back into school.

The time is coming closer and closer to cutting HW loose. I already told my family not go get too attached. Her pulling back is forcing me to learn to fend for myself. 

I firmly believe people come into your life to teach you something. Once you learn that lesson, they leave it.

First wife taught me compassion.

Mb taught me to trust my instincts (my initial instinct with her was to run away)

HW is teaching me how to be independent.


----------



## Chuck71

Life is all about shuffling the deck and taking the top card. Always the 

best card? Nah... But maybe a 10-of-clubs will be all you need. Everyone

wants to draw an ace... 1/13 chance. Get a 4-of-diamonds, reshuffle. Mike

Thomas shuffled, got Angie, reshuffled, got Cara, reshuffled, got Nikki, reshuffled,

Cara again. Maybe MT shuffles the deck... one more time.

You have to be content with what you do. Find that medium between burned-out

and being complacent. ALWAYS put focusing on YOU above all. I get the

fact you want that connection again with a certain female. Been what... 3-4 years

since you felt that way with MB? Stop searching.... when it's time... they will

find you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXd-CF_D7UY


----------



## unbe

Update:

So operation book drop took place yesterday. I packed up the car, went to a storage facility, paid my $1 for the month and dropped of the books.

emailed mb:

"Your books are located XXXX and the code to get into the building is xxxx. You have until 10/28 to pick them up. If you do not get them by 10/28 they will be disposed of. There is no lock on the unit so I suggest you go asap.

I then receive a response from MB a few hours later

Mb-"There are only books here, where is the rest of my stuff?"

Unbe- "There is nothing else at the house"

MB- "Then we have a problem because my stuff has been stolen"

Unbe- "We? What stuff are you referring too?"

MB- "From a legal perspective half of the contents of the house, the house and the dog still belong to me (not true)

According to the terms of the d agreement the current items are outstanding

-paying off the XXX account (as per the agreement this will be paid once the house sells)
-putting up the house for sale within 10 days of signing the agreement (again not the case, 10 days would have been 5 months ago)
-gathering me belonging (as per our d agreement nothing is to leave the home until it is sold)

Please advise if you intend to proceed on meeting these legal commitments"


Clearly we signed separate agreements as the one I have doesn't state these timeliness and is pretty clear.

I did not respond to this... Thoughts on if I should and if so what should it say?

Im sure its clear to some of you what her intentions on here. Id love to hear your perspective.

P.S just when I start to feel weak and nostalgic I get re-awoken to the truth. TY God!


----------



## Chuck71

If they were "so important and valuable" WTF didn't she get them a year ago when she left?

MB just wants to reel you in for an anger dump. Ignore.... as if it were never said.

The items are now her problem, not yours. Well done Unbe!


----------



## Ms. GP

Don't take the bait. Give her your attorney's number, and if she has any questions she can call him/her. Then go dark. You guys divorced for a reason. No need to communicate any more.


----------



## unbe

Ms. GP said:


> Don't take the bait. Give her your attorney's number, and if she has any questions she can call him/her. Then go dark. You guys divorced for a reason. No need to communicate any more.


I don't even want to be bothered, im going with no response and going dark.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> I don't even want to be bothered, im going with no response and going dark.


I would follow Mrs. GP's advice. Refer her to your attorney. Makes it much easier to hang-up when she inevitably calls.


----------



## Chuck71

Did you ever send her a bottle of cheap wine and a block of cheese? Set the MB car on top of cheese


----------



## unbe

Update:

Mb is spiraling our of control (not surprising). She is being audited, had her license suspended and is depressed. I fear what she may do to herself and I hope she has a support system around her. She reached out to me for money which of course I rejected. She then proceeded to tell me all her problems. I did not offer any help nor advice. I just said Im sorry to hear shes having such a tough time. She said she thought id be happy.

WOW


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Mb is spiraling our of control (not surprising). She is being audited, had her license suspended and is depressed. I fear what she may do to herself and I hope she has a support system around her. She reached out to me for money which of course I rejected. She then proceeded to tell me all her problems. I did not offer any help nor advice. I just said Im sorry to hear shes having such a tough time. She said she thought id be happy.
> 
> WOW


WC did the exact thing.... The farther away from her I got, healthier I felt.

No way I would return.....sounds like you are traveling the path I was, almost four years ago.

Why was her teaching license suspended? If she was with the NEA it had to be something bad.

MB is projecting guilt upon you. The old Unbe would have mounted his horse and rode to the rescue.

WC did same thing...... "WC I am sorry things did not turn out the way you anticipated" 

Cool, firm, dispassionate. Every time you face "Vader" now, gets easier and easier.


----------



## Openminded

She still thinks you'll rescue her so she keeps reminding you how bad her life is. She's not likely going to stop so you should mentally prepare yourself to listen to lots more of that. 

Not responding in any way to her complaints about her life would be the better course to take.


----------



## Chuck71

Openminded said:


> She still thinks you'll rescue her so she keeps reminding you how bad her life is. She's not likely going to stop so you should mentally prepare yourself to listen to lots more of that.
> 
> Not responding in any way to her complaints about her life would be the better course to take.


Unbe... When I read what WC told me about her downward spiral, I felt pity but I also LMFAO

I also pity stray dogs but you don't see me taking them all home trying to play savior... that was WC.

If it still bothers you any.... cut out communication 100%. I know you are smiling at her

devolving but you still.... feel something for her. As time, it will pass.


----------



## farsidejunky

Well done, Unbe.

You didn't engage, nor did you spike the ball. 50K indeed.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Update:
> 
> Mb is spiraling our of control (not surprising). She is being audited, had her license suspended and is depressed. I fear what she may do to herself and I hope she has a support system around her. She reached out to me for money which of course I rejected. She then proceeded to tell me all her problems. I did not offer any help nor advice. I just said Im sorry to hear shes having such a tough time. She said she thought id be happy.
> 
> WOW


I'm certain it's still all your fault.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> I'm certain it's still all your fault.


Of course, she mentioned she doesn't trust me after all shes learned post D day...

She. doesn't. trust. me. ....yea


----------



## Tron

Rest assured that if you helped her out financially, she would trust you then...

NOT!


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Of course, she mentioned she doesn't trust me after all shes learned post D day...
> 
> She. doesn't. trust. me. ....yea


Isn't dysfunction a whole lot more entertaining from 50000 feet?


----------



## Chuck71

You are seeing her without the mask she wore. But if you look back, she took it off several times, you

just didn't notice. Since she had to take that mask off, she blames you for every ill she faces.

Smile and move on with your life, she already monopolized what, 7-8 years?

Her problems are.... her problems. She fired you as a H. Go enjoy your FWB....

but in the meantime, learn about yourself, explore YOU. But always remember.... when you are not

getting what you need out of a relationship, it's time to go. I did this with DC, and I felt schit

with her I hadn't felt in 20 years. We're still communicating, meeting but I stated what I wanted

and if I don't get it, I'm out the door. And each time that door closes, it's harder to re-open.

Just be true to yourself Unbe.....


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> You are seeing her without the mask she wore. But if you look back, she took it off several times, you
> 
> just didn't notice. Since she had to take that mask off, she blames you for every ill she faces.
> 
> Smile and move on with your life, she already monopolized what, 7-8 years?
> 
> Her problems are.... her problems. She fired you as a H. Go enjoy your FWB....
> 
> but in the meantime, learn about yourself, explore YOU. But always remember.... when you are not
> 
> getting what you need out of a relationship, it's time to go. I did this with DC, and I felt schit
> 
> with her I hadn't felt in 20 years. We're still communicating, meeting but I stated what I wanted
> 
> and if I don't get it, I'm out the door. And each time that door closes, it's harder to re-open.
> 
> Just be true to yourself Unbe.....



Things in my life are starting to come into perspective. HW is around still. She spends the weekends at my house, we see each other maybe once during the week and im good with that. At first it felt weird to not be progressing this further but now I'm not so sure I want it going any further than this. It was lonely at night at first, now I like my freedom. I don't know if I will want that constant contact again...maybe I will but just not with HW. 

Still think about MB...Its hard for me to let go I guess. I know shes struggling and in the past Id do anything I can to make it stop. The problem was it was at my own peril... I see that now. 

I wont ever help her again unless I am directly benefitting from it. It seems wrong to me initially but that's the decision ive made and im sticking with it.

HW is fun. She is who she is, she is not the next Mrs Unbe.


----------



## Chuck71

It's hard to just, stop caring... we all get that. But put yourself before her. You admit you still care BUT

you are addressing it. Battle already half won. You're progressing well Unbe.

I understand the HW deal. She's your rebound. Nothing more. Had a close friend date a recently D female.

Had even admitted to her, he would be her rebound. They dated, she fell, then he fell....

she got scared and he pulled the plug. Way things go. HW is not your future, could she be

if you linked up couple years later, who knows. Just bad timing...


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> meeting but I stated what I wanted
> 
> and if I don't get it, I'm out the door. And each time that door closes, it's harder to re-open.
> 
> Just be true to yourself Unbe.....


This scares me to no end...at some point its going to be impossible to re-open that door.


----------



## Chuck71

It is always the disillusion of the illusion...... every.........damn..........time


----------



## ReturntoZero

farsidejunky said:


> Isn't dysfunction a whole lot more entertaining from 50000 feet?


It can even be entertaining from the next room.


----------



## unbe

ReturntoZero said:


> Not certain what you mean here.


Basically I feel that the more I get burned the harder it will be to allow people into my life and at some point, I just wont allow anyone in anymore.

On a side note,

Still thinking a lot about MB. She really made a dent in my psyche. I do not reach out to her but she still dips are paws in every now and again with random updates about the house. I feel I will be unable to get past her until the house is over and done with...

Things with HW are going prefect... We are in a holding pattern, which is literally exactly where I want to be

Doing well at work, started a new job about 4 months ago and have been killing it. 

Overall things are good..


----------



## Chuck71

Your HW was my UG. Completely understand. Being alone is weird..... Had I been tied to UG

when DC and I clicked.... wouldn't happened. No regrets.... best 6 months of my life 

(well... maybe tied with a few other) but that never comes when you settle 

The dark path.... is not always dark.... trust me


----------



## unbe

Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water....

Heard from MB. Her grandfather passed (he was basically like her father, her real dad is MIA). She told me after all the services were done (I would have paid my respects had I known). In any event, she calls to tell me this then starts to talk about her life. Small chat mainly however at the end she suggests that we meet up to "catch up"

I said I have to get back to her and check my schedule so I have not given an answer yet, this conversation was on Saturday.

Whats up gents??


----------



## ButtPunch

unbe said:


> Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water....
> 
> Heard from MB. Her grandfather passed (he was basically like her father, her real dad is MIA). She told me after all the services were done (I would have paid my respects had I known). In any event, she calls to tell me this then starts to talk about her life. Small chat mainly however at the end she suggests that we meet up to "catch up"
> 
> I said I have to get back to her and check my schedule so I have not given an answer yet, this conversation was on Saturday.
> 
> Whats up gents??


You still haven't let go......that's what's up.


----------



## Chuck71

Is she aware of HW? If not, inform her. IF you do..... catch up, make sure you do not accept any of her advances. We all know what MB is about to do.

Bet the farm. This can speed up your recovery or... may set you back. Only you know that. Or... just do nothing. Tell her you are tied up at the moment.

This reach is what we have told you about. Are you now prepared to face Vader?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Is she aware of HW? If not, inform her. IF you do..... catch up, make sure you do not accept any of her advances. We all know what MB is about to do.
> 
> Bet the farm. This can speed up your recovery or... may set you back. Only you know that. Or... just do nothing. Tell her you are tied up at the moment.
> 
> This reach is what we have told you about. Are you now prepared to face Vader?


She knows im dating, she has mentioned it. 

Full disclosure, I am not ready for this. Especially if she puts the full court press on. That's why I haven't immediately accepted it, I feel this may be detrimental to my well being.


----------



## unbe

ButtPunch said:


> You still haven't let go......that's what's up.


I am still healing from this, no doubt of that. I have however accepted it is over


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> She knows im dating, she has mentioned it.
> 
> Full disclosure, I am not ready for this. Especially if she puts the full court press on. That's why I haven't immediately accepted it, I feel this may be detrimental to my well being.


Then put her off. Tell her maybe next week, you're busy. Or check back in a couple weeks.

Do not do anything you are uncomfortable with. 

Or.... lol.... show up with HW for the catch up


----------



## ButtPunch

unbe said:


> I am still healing from this, no doubt of that. I have however accepted it is over


Nothing good can come of this meeting unless of course you are dreaming to get her back.

It concerns me that you did not shut it down immediately.


----------



## Chuck71

"Sure we could catch up, via text"


----------



## farsidejunky

"Please accept my condolences for the passing of your grandfather. Beyond that, there's little else for us to catch up on. Take care."


----------



## Openminded

What is she doing? Trying to reel you back in because her life's not working. 

There's no reason for the two of you to "catch up" so don't.


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> "Please accept my condolences for the passing of your grandfather. Beyond that, there's little else for us to catch up on. Take care."


Im going with this....the more I think about it the more I can see it just winding up bad for me.

It would have been nice to have one more go around in the sack though! lol


----------



## farsidejunky

That's because crazy is ALWAYS good in the sack.

Another roll would be enough to poison your resolve.

Also, any response from her following that message should go unanswered.

There is literally nothing left to discuss with her.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> It would have been nice to have one more go around in the sack though! lol


She's not through trying..... far from it. She will wait until HW is not there, stop by, cry, say how sorry she was and

before you know it.... you will have the go-around. Then..... will Unbe fall backwards? Or can it justify why you

moved on? I've been there.... with 1st love last year, 2nd love last year (granted these were from the 80s / 90s),

and the XW recently. Just because you can feel the electricity from years back.... does not mean it is healthy for you.

Yes... I was with my XW, a good 50+ lbs. lighter.... it reminded me of the emotional connection "we had" but that's it.

But Chuck... thought you said you never would with your XW.... well I told Tom67 I would sleep with her when the Cubs

win the World Series. Well.... they did and she just moved back into town.... lol what can I say?


----------



## Tron

Chuck71 said:


> ...and the XW recently. Just because you can feel the electricity from years back.... does not mean it is healthy for you.
> 
> Yes... I was with my XW, a good 50+ lbs. lighter.... it reminded me of the emotional connection "we had" but that's it.
> 
> But Chuck... thought you said you never would with your XW.... well I told Tom67 I would sleep with her when the Cubs
> 
> win the World Series. Well.... they did and she just moved back into town.... lol what can I say?


----------



## Chuck71

OMFG....... don't read into it, seriously! I had to break down about mom's death to someone.... I wanted it to be DC but we all 

know how that ended. WC was my 2nd option.... she knew mom more than anyone. -I know you Chuck you will hold all that in

and not talk about it- Years ago she was exactly right.... just not in our four years apart. I have TAM, friends from TAM in other places.

Yoda did chuckle about pinning her legs behind her ears. I had to break down with someone.... I have no family, it was virtually a no-brainer.

My BFF / former IC has kids, M.... very limited time. Plus I no longer hold her thoughts in as high regard as I once did. Walked away from DC 

a 2nd time so she was out. She was definatly my 1st option but she failed to fulfill the requirements of being a LTR g/f. So who was left?

Sometimes a man needs a female's touch and compassion..... this was one. One mom, one death.... not like it will re-occur....


----------



## unbe

Yea I hear you guys. Im sure its a my life sucks and I need a sucker to dump on, why not unbe.

Theres always that thought that it could be the I made a mistake, I have changed and I want to try to make everything great again speach. I guess that's why it wasn't an immediate no from me.

The old unbe jumps into this with both feet, offers to save the day and prob gets back into it with MB until she decides to risne and repeat.

The new unbe took a step back, assessed the situation and realized it can only end bad for unbe. Its not worth the dip in the sex pool.

It took a long time, but eventually I got to the point where its time to make decisions based on what's best for me!


----------



## Tron

Chuck71 said:


> OMFG....... don't read into it, seriously! I had to break down about mom's death to someone.... I wanted it to be DC but we all know how that ended. WC was my 2nd option.... she knew mom more than anyone. -I know you Chuck you will hold all that in and not talk about it- Years ago she was exactly right.... just not in our four years apart. I have TAM, friends from TAM in other places.


I was really just ribbing you a bit...:wink2: 



Chuck71 said:


> Yoda did chuckle about pinning her legs behind her ears. I had to break down with someone.... I have no family, it was virtually a no-brainer.
> 
> My BFF / former IC has kids, M.... very limited time. Plus I no longer hold her thoughts in as high regard as I once did. Walked away from DC a 2nd time so she was out. She was definatly my 1st option but she failed to fulfill the requirements of being a LTR g/f. So who was left?
> 
> Sometimes a man needs a female's touch and compassion..... this was one. One mom, one death.... not like it will re-occur....


I'll bet Yoda had a chuckle...I did too you ole Tennessee horn dawg.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Yea I hear you guys. Im sure its a my life sucks and I need a sucker to dump on, why not unbe.
> 
> Theres always that thought that it could be the I made a mistake, I have changed and I want to try to make everything great again speach. I guess that's why it wasn't an immediate no from me.
> 
> The old unbe jumps into this with both feet, offers to save the day and prob gets back into it with MB until she decides to risne and repeat.
> 
> The new unbe took a step back, assessed the situation and realized it can only end bad for unbe. Its not worth the dip in the sex pool.
> 
> It took a long time, but eventually I got to the point where its time to make decisions based on what's best for me!


One of the best posts you have made. You are not ready. One of my worst flaws is sticking with something well beyond

it's expiration date. On the flip side, when I reach the IDGAF stage, ice cold. Call me weird.

I was 110% knowing what would happen with 1st and 2nd love, especially 1st. Anytime they contacted me after a break up,

sex was on the table and initiated by them. XW was same way.... she knows me, I know her. Unwritten knowledge.

The difference is we have been apart longer, I knew no road led home anymore. It was for my benefit and mine only.

$1,000 says she knew it too. I was there for her mom's death.... maybe she just wanted to pay back the favor.

The difference was... I was beyond Episode VI of Luke vs. Vader. Vader and the Emperor were defeated without a sabre,

while I was making homemade chili, surfing EBay for ball cards and listening to hair bands from the 80s.

You'll get there..... give it time.


----------



## Chuck71

Tron said:


> I was really just ribbing you a bit...:wink2:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll bet Yoda had a chuckle...I did too you ole Tennessee horn dawg.


Egh .... No Apologies. Knew going in..... even had the Keith Urban CD in the car, just in case. Funny 'ol Mike Thomas had the same

"years ago." Course MT never had a DC.... given the fact he did.... he would shut the door in her face. He wouldn't be ready yet


----------



## ReturntoZero

Chuck71 said:


> She's not through trying..... far from it. She will wait until HW is not there, stop by, cry, say how sorry she was and
> 
> before you know it.... you will have the go-around. Then..... will Unbe fall backwards? Or can it justify why you
> 
> moved on? I've been there.... with 1st love last year, 2nd love last year (granted these were from the 80s / 90s),
> 
> and the XW recently. Just because you can feel the electricity from years back.... does not mean it is healthy for you.
> 
> Yes... I was with my XW, a good 50+ lbs. lighter.... it reminded me of the emotional connection "we had" but that's it.
> 
> But Chuck... thought you said you never would with your XW.... well I told Tom67 I would sleep with her when the Cubs
> 
> win the World Series. Well.... they did and she just moved back into town.... lol what can I say?


She fits through the window now?


----------



## unbe

So deciding not to meet MB was a good move. She quickly showed her colors after me turning her down.

In any event I wanted to thank everyone who provided advise and guidance during this ordeal. It took a long time to get to this point but I finally feel content in my life. Things are really good in all aspects and Im looking forward to an exciting 2016.

Special thanks goes to Chuck, RTZ, Conrad and Farside. Telling it like it is, always speaking the truth regardless of feelings. I salute you!

BTW Chuck, that song you recommended got me through a lot. Bon Jovi, Someday Ill be Sat night. Thank you sir


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> So deciding not to meet MB was a good move. She quickly showed her colors after me turning her down.
> 
> In any event I wanted to thank everyone who provided advise and guidance during this ordeal. It took a long time to get to this point but I finally feel content in my life. Things are really good in all aspects and Im looking forward to an exciting 2016.
> 
> Special thanks goes to Chuck, RTZ, Conrad and Farside. Telling it like it is, always speaking the truth regardless of feelings. I salute you!
> 
> BTW Chuck, that song you recommended got me through a lot. Bon Jovi, Someday Ill be Sat night. Thank you sir


Unbe,

Let's not re-live 2016.

Good cheer for 2017.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> So deciding not to meet MB was a good move. She quickly showed her colors after me turning her down.
> 
> In any event I wanted to thank everyone who provided advise and guidance during this ordeal. It took a long time to get to this point but I finally feel content in my life. Things are really good in all aspects and Im looking forward to an exciting 2016.
> 
> Special thanks goes to Chuck, RTZ, Conrad and Farside. Telling it like it is, always speaking the truth regardless of feelings. I salute you!
> 
> BTW Chuck, that song you recommended got me through a lot. Bon Jovi, Someday Ill be Sat night. Thank you sir


Anytime Padawan, anytime. We all traveled what you just did. She's not through with you BTW.

But you know..... you not only see her, you see through her.... just as I did WC.

Your training wasn't complete when you left back in '14 to try a R. Think Luke vs. Vader Empire Strikes Back.

We knew you'd be back, you did. You're on the path to becoming a Jedi. MB will throw it out there several more

times, bet the farm. She wants old Unbe back. You too will reach a day....you can do what I did with WC recently.

And not feel a thing "in the present," only "in the past."

Enjoy your time with HW.... just don't lead her on with promises. She's not your next "The One" but I think you know that.


----------



## unbe

So I'm sitting with my mom today before work and reminiscing over the past year. She starts to tell me how she saw way back when MB's true colors. How she was a manipulator and even her mother was part of this elaborate plan to suck me in. How they both saw me as a safe option for her daughter and that Mb molded into the person who I wanted to be with but all along she really never was. 

She also told me that the things that made me fall for MB NEVER really existed. The traits that I listed that I saw in MB were fabricated in my mind. That's really scary...

My mom claims to have seen this prior to us getting married but neglected to share it with me. She states she didn't want to come in-between us. This kinda pissed me off.

Makes me wonder, how many of us that end of the path of divorce had similar signs early on but for one reason or another failed to recognize them. Even though they were so glaring to everyone around them....

How do I make sure this doesn't happen again???


----------



## turnera

Write out a list of characteristics you want in a partner and then under each, write out real-life examples of how you'd see those acted out. And do the same for the characteristics you DON'T want in a partner and do the same. So when you're dating, look for both, and if you don't see the former, or do see the latter, run.


----------



## golfpanther

unbe said:


> So I'm sitting with my mom today before work and reminiscing over the past year. She starts to tell me how she saw way back when MB's true colors. How she was a manipulator and even her mother was part of this elaborate plan to suck me in. How they both saw me as a safe option for her daughter and that Mb molded into the person who I wanted to be with but all along she really never was.
> 
> She also told me that the things that made me fall for MB NEVER really existed. The traits that I listed that I saw in MB were fabricated in my mind. That's really scary...
> 
> My mom claims to have seen this prior to us getting married but neglected to share it with me. She states she didn't want to come in-between us. This kinda pissed me off.
> 
> Makes me wonder, how many of us that end of the path of divorce had similar signs early on but for one reason or another failed to recognize them. Even though they were so glaring to everyone around them....
> 
> How do I make sure this doesn't happen again???


I think everyone that's ever fallen in love creates a version of that person that others don't see. In hindsight, we might be able to separate the signals our brains were sending us from reality, but when you're in it... that's a very tough thing to do.

Also, when things end it's only natural that we start to see those signs (that we probably tolerated during the marriage) and for others to speak up about them. I wouldn't hold it against your mom; she was only trying to be happy for you and your marriage while you were in it. Everyone has things they need to work on.

In terms of making sure it doesn't happen again... try to identify those traits that you want in a partner and those you've learned you definitely do not want and be as objective as possible when you meet someone new. It's really tough though, part of falling in love tends to blind us to those negative traits until we're pretty deep into the relationship. Hopefully, after this experience you can separate some of the alchemy of love from objective reality.

Hope you come to peace with what's happened and can move on to something better.


----------



## Sammy64

unbe said:


> So I'm sitting with my mom today before work and reminiscing over the past year. She starts to tell me how she saw way back when MB's true colors. How she was a manipulator and even her mother was part of this elaborate plan to suck me in. How they both saw me as a safe option for her daughter and that Mb molded into the person who I wanted to be with but all along she really never was.
> 
> She also told me that the things that made me fall for MB NEVER really existed. The traits that I listed that I saw in MB were fabricated in my mind. That's really scary...
> 
> My mom claims to have seen this prior to us getting married but neglected to share it with me. She states she didn't want to come in-between us. This kinda pissed me off.
> 
> Makes me wonder, how many of us that end of the path of divorce had similar signs early on but for one reason or another failed to recognize them. Even though they were so glaring to everyone around them....
> 
> How do I make sure this doesn't happen again???



Everyone in my family told me after i divorced the Ew... and they all said the same thing, You were happy ! did not want to get in between !


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe..... Who she WAS and who she IS are vastly different. "Bandaged people...."

MB will repeat the exact same form with next guy.

Eyes wide open.... 50k... observe without emotion....... Then you see everything.

Just as I had to do with DC...... 

Hurt to walk away... yes it was. But what if I put blinders on?

Yeah.... those rarely ever end well


----------



## Openminded

unbe said:


> So I'm sitting with my mom today before work and reminiscing over the past year. She starts to tell me how she saw way back when MB's true colors. How she was a manipulator and even her mother was part of this elaborate plan to suck me in. How they both saw me as a safe option for her daughter and that Mb molded into the person who I wanted to be with but all along she really never was.
> 
> She also told me that the things that made me fall for MB NEVER really existed. The traits that I listed that I saw in MB were fabricated in my mind. That's really scary...
> 
> My mom claims to have seen this prior to us getting married but neglected to share it with me. She states she didn't want to come in-between us. This kinda pissed me off.
> 
> Makes me wonder, how many of us that end of the path of divorce had similar signs early on but for one reason or another failed to recognize them. Even though they were so glaring to everyone around them....
> 
> How do I make sure this doesn't happen again???


Just as men see through other men, women see through other women -- especially when sons are concerned. Odds are excellent if she had tried to tell you those things you would have been annoyed (at the very least) and not believed her. You wouldn't have broken up with your gf and your mom knew that -- so, to keep the peace, she remained quiet. 

Yes, you got played. Happens all the time. Next time, wait awhile -- a very long while (and be cautious) -- but know that no matter what you do there's always the risk of being played. And love goggles are strong. People want to believe the person they're with really is that wonderful. That just goes with relationships. At least now you know what can go wrong and you're much more aware than you used to be.


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe...... have you ever "watched" the 1st Matrix?


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Unbe...... have you ever "watched" the 1st Matrix?


I have Chuck, numerous times. Whats the reference?

Also, I cant seem to get her out of my mind. I am annoyed by it TBH


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish

unbe said:


> I have Chuck, numerous times. Whats the reference?
> 
> Also, I cant seem to get her out of my mind. I am annoyed by it TBH


You see things as you want to see them. Not as they truly are.


----------



## Chuck71

Watch it from right after they catch Morpheus and everyone tries to escape.

Listen to what they're saying...... especially when Neo turns to fight Smith at the train station.

Do you recall when Morph said -everytime a human has stood their ground against an agent, they have died.-

Neo.... you mean I can dodge bullets?

Morph...... -when you're ready, you won't have to-


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> I have Chuck, numerous times. Whats the reference?
> 
> Also, I cant seem to get her out of my mind. I am annoyed by it TBH


Time....... the ultimate equalizer. No one said you were a computer chip and could erase 

everything from your memory. I know MB did many great things for you... but whaddabowt the bad stuff?

MB is no longer your future.....by your own admission, neither is HW. But you're frozen.... in this state

The state you are in.... was it similar to how you felt after your 1st D? Does HW remind you of MB

when you 1st met? Think about it. 

You have never been alone....... I get that, we spoke on it several times. Unless I am honest to God....

in love with a woman, I don't want them at my place every night. 2-3 nights, cool....but you have to

have "it" to stay more. I love my freedom and will not give it up without just cause......

I'm sure you loved it when HW was "all up your arse" showing you attention..... that's one place where

male and females are alike...... But now, it "annoys" you, but it never annoyed you with MB, did it?

MB never gave you much after the -I do- part..... Would MB if you went back with her, yeah BUT

for what, six months? Then it's the "same 'ol, same 'ol" MB lied to you, deceived you, strung you along...

She showed you who she really was, FOUR times.... 

Unbe.... would it be nice to see DC at my front door in tears tonight? Yes it would, being honest 

but here's the deal.... I can't trust her anymore. I give trust openly but if anyone abuses it,

it's gone.... I can't love with out trust, simple as that. I still love DC and will for a good while.... BUT

I would turn her away, at the door. 

Read my threads..... HW is a mirror to my FWB from 2015-16. HW is similar to my 4th love / UG.

MB is my WC..... our situations are pretty damn similar. My heart wanted WC back when she reached in

2013 and even 2014. My heart wanted UG back in 2015 when she came "'a knockin"

Neither time did I listen to my heart.... there was nothing to go back to. No trust, can't love.

And with those two, the love had died.... but my heart knew how great it was at one time.

I can feel a DC return, not very soon but, soon. Unlike WC where I did not even need a light sabre.....

with DC, I'll need it. Her pull was that strong.... but I know better now. MB is strong, but YOU know better now


----------



## VFW

There are many of us that have done the same as you, we say what we want to see. We knew that our ex's had the potential to be so much better, they just didn't have the desire. You have to take off the rose colored glasses, take advice from those who have your best interest at heart and I highly advise premarital counseling the next time around.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> So I'm sitting with my mom today before work and reminiscing over the past year. She starts to tell me how she saw way back when MB's true colors. How she was a manipulator and even her mother was part of this elaborate plan to suck me in. How they both saw me as a safe option for her daughter and that Mb molded into the person who I wanted to be with but all along she really never was.
> 
> She also told me that the things that made me fall for MB NEVER really existed. The traits that I listed that I saw in MB were fabricated in my mind. That's really scary...
> 
> My mom claims to have seen this prior to us getting married but neglected to share it with me. She states she didn't want to come in-between us. This kinda pissed me off.
> 
> Makes me wonder, how many of us that end of the path of divorce had similar signs early on but for one reason or another failed to recognize them. Even though they were so glaring to everyone around them....
> 
> How do I make sure this doesn't happen again???


The urge to blame someone else is called "blameshifting"

It's not a pretty trait.


----------



## unbe

Sup party people...

Just checking in with an update.

13 mo post DDay #2, still think about MB but not in the way you think. Its more of why couldn't she just have been a decent human being, things could have been so much different. At this point I hold almost no blame nor remorse. There are still days I think of her though. I think I have to delete some of the songs on my playlist, mainly that's the trigger at this point. However, the tiger last less than 5 min and back to my day I go.

HW is still around, things are actually progressing pretty well. I may have jumped the gun too soon on my assessment of her, time will tell. There is NO rush on either end for anything here.

The job is going well. been here 6 months, have been #1 in me region every month. Cant ask for more.

Would like to travel more but with the pending home sale and purchase this year, I have decided to curb that till all is finalized.

Gents going through this, all I can say is TIME WILL GET YOU THROUGH. You need to put in the TIME and trust the process.

Speak to you guys again soon....


----------



## Chuck71

Unbe..... triggers are there. You know how I feel about Window Cork.... it was early 2015, two

years after D.... I was watching old SNL on VH-1. The one came on that was playing in the 

background of my DDay. Just that... triggered me... for a couple minutes. First time I had 

triggered since seeing her a year after D final and she asked if we could date again.

Completely normal.... HW is a "fun girl," and you are recently D.... live it up a little. 2-3 overnights is

cool but don't allow her to move in and for God's sake don't marry her.

I'll leave you with what a friend told me back in HS...... NGPP... never get potheads pregnant.


----------



## Davidmidwest

Hi
It's a zero sum game. You can suggest marital therapy. Try it it. May work good luck!


----------



## GusPolinski

unbe said:


> Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water....
> 
> Heard from MB. Her grandfather passed (he was basically like her father, her real dad is MIA). She told me after all the services were done (I would have paid my respects had I known). In any event, she calls to tell me this then starts to talk about her life. Small chat mainly however at the end she suggests that we meet up to "catch up"
> 
> I said I have to get back to her and check my schedule so I have not given an answer yet, this conversation was on Saturday.
> 
> Whats up gents??


I get that I'm responding to a comment that is several weeks old, but I've just got to say it...

Change.

Your. 

F*ck. 

Ing. 

Phone. 

Num. 

Bers.


----------



## unbe

Sup ya'll...feeling country today.

Update:

House is being listed this weekend, this chapter is finally closing. Mb tried to reach out during the week to initiate some sort of contact, I immediately squashed it.

MB: Hey, hope you are well. Do you have a few minutes to talk?
Unbe: No I do not.
MB: It will only take a few minutes,
Unbe: If this is regarding the house redirect all you questions through the relator. Anything else, please contact my lawyer. (This is what we agreed on during the signing, not sure why anything would change)
MB: But it will only take a few minutes.
Unbe: Please read last response, this is the last text I am responding too.

I have no reason to discuss anything with her, ever. Damn does that feel good!!!

HW is still hanging around, shes getting more and more comfortable and as she does more and more flags come out. That's fine, we all know shes not the future but she is damn fun to hang around with now.

Be good guys, im sure Ill have much to talk about as we go through the sale process.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Sup ya'll...feeling country today.
> 
> Update:
> 
> House is being listed this weekend, this chapter is finally closing. Mb tried to reach out during the week to initiate some sort of contact, I immediately squashed it.
> 
> MB: Hey, hope you are well. Do you have a few minutes to talk?
> Unbe: No I do not.
> MB: It will only take a few minutes,
> Unbe: If this is regarding the house redirect all you questions through the relator. Anything else, please contact my lawyer. (This is what we agreed on during the signing, not sure why anything would change)
> MB: But it will only take a few minutes.
> Unbe: Please read last response, this is the last text I am responding too.
> 
> I have no reason to discuss anything with her, ever. Damn does that feel good!!!
> 
> HW is still hanging around, shes getting more and more comfortable and as she does more and more flags come out. That's fine, we all know shes not the future but she is damn fun to hang around with now.
> 
> Be good guys, im sure Ill have much to talk about as we go through the sale process.


The easier it becomes for you to turn her advances away, the more she tries.

Funny how things work out, ain't it! Just treat HW with kindness as she does you.

If she starts to mistreat you, act accordingly. Do NOT get her pregnant! 

Everything Conrad, CG, ThreeStrikes, RTZ, FSJ, Turnera, Tron, BP said.... turned out exactly as planned didn't it?


----------



## farsidejunky

unbe said:


> Sup ya'll...feeling country today.
> 
> Update:
> 
> House is being listed this weekend, this chapter is finally closing. Mb tried to reach out during the week to initiate some sort of contact, I immediately squashed it.
> 
> MB: Hey, hope you are well. Do you have a few minutes to talk?
> Unbe: No I do not.
> MB: It will only take a few minutes,
> Unbe: If this is regarding the house redirect all you questions through the relator. Anything else, please contact my lawyer. (This is what we agreed on during the signing, not sure why anything would change)
> MB: But it will only take a few minutes.
> Unbe: Please read last response, this is the last text I am responding too.
> 
> I have no reason to discuss anything with her, ever. Damn does that feel good!!!
> 
> HW is still hanging around, shes getting more and more comfortable and as she does more and more flags come out. That's fine, we all know shes not the future but she is damn fun to hang around with now.
> 
> Be good guys, im sure Ill have much to talk about as we go through the sale process.


Who are you and what have you done with Unbe?!?

Dang, dude. You might just earn that avatar yet!


----------



## Ceegee

He he. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ZedZ

Good luck with the sale....


----------



## unbe

So I think I got sh&T tested from HW....

My iphone broke the other day and I was off yesterday so I was waiting for fedex to drop it off. Unfortuanltey I have to be there to sign for it and the window they gave me was anytime before 8. We have dinner plans for tonight.

Supposed to have dinner with HW. Below is the correspondence:

10:00am
HW- Hey, did you get your phone.
Unbe: No not yet. I was thinking of swinging by you around 7.
HW: You can come earlier if you want.
Unbe: Ok, if the phone comes earlier sure. Ill let you know.

5:30am
Hw: Hey did your phone come yet.
unbe: No, ive been waiting around like a jack a$$ all day. Nothing yet.
Hw: Ok well I don't want to sit around for hours so im just going to have dinner and go to sleep.
Unbe: ok
Hw: I am so pissed.

This is where I stopped responding. Later on she called and apologized for being *****y...not sure I should have just responding.

Thoughts?


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> So I think I got sh&T tested from HW....
> 
> My iphone broke the other day and I was off yesterday so I was waiting for fedex to drop it off. Unfortuanltey I have to be there to sign for it and the window they gave me was anytime before 8. We have dinner plans for tonight.
> 
> Supposed to have dinner with HW. Below is the correspondence:
> 
> 10:00am
> HW- Hey, did you get your phone.
> Unbe: No not yet. I was thinking of swinging by you around 7.
> HW: You can come earlier if you want.
> Unbe: Ok, if the phone comes earlier sure. Ill let you know.
> 
> 5:30am
> Hw: Hey did your phone come yet.
> unbe: No, ive been waiting around like a jack a$$ all day. Nothing yet.
> Hw: Ok well I don't want to sit around for hours so im just going to have dinner and go to sleep.
> Unbe: ok
> Hw: I am so pissed.
> 
> This is where I stopped responding. Later on she called and apologized for being *****y...not sure I should have just responding.
> 
> Thoughts?


HER problem......... not yours.

Eyes wide open GD you.....you're seeing reality....


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Sup ya'll...feeling country today.
> 
> Update:
> 
> House is being listed this weekend, this chapter is finally closing. Mb tried to reach out during the week to initiate some sort of contact, I immediately squashed it.
> 
> MB: Hey, hope you are well. Do you have a few minutes to talk?
> Unbe: No I do not.
> MB: It will only take a few minutes,
> Unbe: If this is regarding the house redirect all you questions through the relator. Anything else, please contact my lawyer. (This is what we agreed on during the signing, not sure why anything would change)
> MB: But it will only take a few minutes.
> Unbe: Please read last response, this is the last text I am responding too.
> 
> I have no reason to discuss anything with her, ever. Damn does that feel good!!!
> 
> HW is still hanging around, shes getting more and more comfortable and as she does more and more flags come out. That's fine, we all know shes not the future but she is damn fun to hang around with now.
> 
> Be good guys, im sure Ill have much to talk about as we go through the sale process.


Still having fun? What red flags are appearing? Or.... what bandages are falling off?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> So I think I got sh&T tested from HW....
> 
> My iphone broke the other day and I was off yesterday so I was waiting for fedex to drop it off. Unfortuanltey I have to be there to sign for it and the window they gave me was anytime before 8. We have dinner plans for tonight.
> 
> Supposed to have dinner with HW. Below is the correspondence:
> 
> 10:00am
> HW- Hey, did you get your phone.
> Unbe: No not yet. I was thinking of swinging by you around 7.
> HW: You can come earlier if you want.
> Unbe: Ok, if the phone comes earlier sure. Ill let you know.
> 
> 5:30am
> Hw: Hey did your phone come yet.
> unbe: No, ive been waiting around like a jack a$$ all day. Nothing yet.
> Hw: Ok well I don't want to sit around for hours so im just going to have dinner and go to sleep.
> Unbe: ok
> Hw: I am so pissed.
> 
> This is where I stopped responding. Later on she called and apologized for being *****y...not sure I should have just responding.
> 
> Thoughts?


Big smiles here.

That was simply a **** test. Absolutely no reason to put up with those.


----------



## laststraw

I do not know why but it seems a lot of people change once there is a marriage license. It is like that think it is a license to treat the other person as if they don't have feelings or matter. I read through a lot of the post and noticed a theme of it being woman that did this but please keep in mind it happens the other way too. In awful situation myself but since in preceding cannot and will not disclose. Biggest thing to try and keep in mind is even in marriage each person has their own perspective and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Not saying you are not being truthful just in her mind it is another way and emotions make it hard for us to separate ourselves from the situation and see completely clearly.
It is extremely sad that it seems that in this day and time more and more people (both men and women) just don't take marriage vows seriously or think they should have to put any effort into the marriage. It takes work on both parts and compromises but people have gotten so self centered and looking for instant gratification.
I am sorry for what you have had to go through and hope it gets better. Everyone is right to say get out, it takes two to make it work and you are doing all the work which is not fair. Don't look for someone just live your life and eventually the right person will come along. Good luck


----------



## Chuck71

laststraw said:


> I do not know why but it seems a lot of people change once there is a marriage license. It is like that think it is a license to treat the other person as if they don't have feelings or matter. I read through a lot of the post and noticed a theme of it being woman that did this but please keep in mind it happens the other way too. In awful situation myself but since in preceding cannot and will not disclose. Biggest thing to try and keep in mind is even in marriage each person has their own perspective and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Not saying you are not being truthful just in her mind it is another way and emotions make it hard for us to separate ourselves from the situation and see completely clearly.
> It is extremely sad that it seems that in this day and time more and more people (both men and women) just don't take marriage vows seriously or think they should have to put any effort into the marriage. It takes work on both parts and compromises but people have gotten so self centered and looking for instant gratification.
> I am sorry for what you have had to go through and hope it gets better. Everyone is right to say get out, it takes two to make it work and you are doing all the work which is not fair. Don't look for someone just live your life and eventually the right person will come along. Good luck


One trains others how to treat them.


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> Still having fun? What red flags are appearing? Or.... what bandages are falling off?


Sure its fun. She unstable to say the least. Flies off the handle and starts screaming at the workers outside when they interrupt her sleep...its pretty funny but nothing I would tolerate if it directed at me. Like I said, its fine for now.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Sure its fun. She unstable to say the least. Flies off the handle and starts screaming at the workers outside when they interrupt her sleep...its pretty funny but nothing I would tolerate if it directed at me. Like I said, its fine for now.


This is a trailer to the actual movie, soon to come.


----------



## farsidejunky

Chuck71 said:


> This is a trailer to the actual movie, soon to come.


:rofl:


----------



## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> This is a trailer to the actual movie, soon to come.


Lets not forget this conversation the other day lol

HW: My car was hit while parked. Theres a crack in the bumper
Unbe: Well, that could happen anywhere. Your work at a mall.
HW: No it happened while parked by you
Unbe: Ok
HW: I am not driving my car there any more.
Unbe: OK

SH$$T test flying, we are at the 6 mo mark with HW so I guess she waited lol. Don't they usually come around the 90 day mark?


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Lets not forget this conversation the other day lol
> 
> HW: My car was hit while parked. Theres a crack in the bumper
> Unbe: Well, that could happen anywhere. Your work at a mall.
> HW: No it happened while parked by you
> Unbe: Ok
> HW: I am not driving my car there any more.
> Unbe: OK
> 
> SH$$T test flying, we are at the 6 mo mark with HW so I guess she waited lol. Don't they usually come around the 90 day mark?


Always 3-6 months.

She's just a little late.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Lets not forget this conversation the other day lol
> 
> HW: My car was hit while parked. Theres a crack in the bumper
> Unbe: Well, that could happen anywhere. Your work at a mall.
> HW: No it happened while parked by you
> Unbe: Ok
> HW: I am not driving my car there any more.
> Unbe: OK
> 
> SH$$T test flying, we are at the 6 mo mark with HW so I guess she waited lol. Don't they usually come around the 90 day mark?


Schit tests will come as soon as you advance her from an option... to a priority.

My FWB for 18 months.... was never a priority. I made that 110% clear. Zero schit tests.

Closest she got was -aren't you glad I'm not like most girls who (insert schit test)- I always responded

with you would not be here if you did. Unbe.... I do hope you do not see HW as "The One"

as you "thought" you did your 1st W and MB. You said yourself recently you have trouble 

getting attached and can't let go.


----------



## laststraw

Chuck71 said:


> One trains others how to treat them.


The people being "trained" as you put it have to allow themselves to be trained and the one doing the training does it because they have the mind set that it is their right to treat people like that and will continue to do so until someone stands up to them or they may just move on to someone who will allow themselves to be trained. It still boils down to not allowing someone else to "train" them. Be true to yourself and treat others as you wanted to be treated. If the person you are with does not fit into that way of thinking then chances are you don't want to be with them. You may find out they believe they should be treated better than you or anyone else and that spells trouble.


----------



## Chuck71

laststraw said:


> The people being "trained" as you put it have to allow themselves to be trained and the one doing the training does it because they have the mind set that it is their right to treat people like that and will continue to do so until someone stands up to them or they may just move on to someone who will allow themselves to be trained. It still boils down to not allowing someone else to "train" them. Be true to yourself and treat others as you wanted to be treated. If the person you are with does not fit into that way of thinking then chances are you don't want to be with them. You may find out they believe they should be treated better than you or anyone else and that spells trouble.


Allowing someone to mistreat you.... sets a precedence. A very unhealthy one.


----------



## laststraw

Chuck71 said:


> One trains others how to treat them.


ok guess I just think different. I feel they should treat you the way they did before the marriage. I don't want to train someone how to treat me, I want someone who already treats me in a way that is acceptable to me otherwise why even be with them. I don't want to change the other person I want to find a person that is themselves and understands how to treat others especially someone they want to spend their life with. I have heard too many of my friends make comments about training their husband is like training a puppy and I just don't agree. You love a person for who they are and that would include how they treat others. That being said you can discuss boundaries that accidentally get crossed (given it isn't a trust breaking boundary) but hopefully all that happens prior to marriage. That way all the cards are on the table going into the marriage. Maybe I am just hopeless romantic or optimistic but it just makes things better.:smile2:


----------



## Chuck71

laststraw said:


> ok guess I just think different. I feel they should treat you the way they did before the marriage. I don't want to train someone how to treat me, I want someone who already treats me in a way that is acceptable to me otherwise why even be with them. I don't want to change the other person I want to find a person that is themselves and understands how to treat others especially someone they want to spend their life with. I have heard too many of my friends make comments about training their husband is like training a puppy and I just don't agree. You love a person for who they are and that would include how they treat others. That being said you can discuss boundaries that accidentally get crossed (given it isn't a trust breaking boundary) but hopefully all that happens prior to marriage. That way all the cards are on the table going into the marriage. Maybe I am just hopeless romantic or optimistic but it just makes things better.:smile2:


The steak is juicy.

There is juice amidst the steak.


----------



## laststraw

Chuck71 said:


> The steak is juicy.
> 
> There is juice amidst the steak.


LOL you sound just like a .... I don't know how to quantify him I guess an longtime friend with mutual past but you definitely sound just like him


----------



## Chuck71

laststraw said:


> LOL you sound just like a .... I don't know how to quantify him I guess an longtime friend with mutual past but you definitely sound just like him


----------



## Ceegee

Unbe, stick with this one. 

She's going to be fun and teach you a lot. 

Don't listen to that Zero guy. He don't know sh1t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrcXYn6HqX8




How'd you get footage of my wedding night Chuck?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> Unbe, stick with this one.
> 
> She's going to be fun and teach you a lot.
> 
> Don't listen to that Zero guy. He don't know sh1t.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She works retail, smokes weed daily, verbally abuses those who interrupt her sleep.

When's the wedding?


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> How'd you get footage of my wedding night Chuck?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was in Window Cork's baggage she failed to pick up.

Right between her Richard Simmons "Get Thin with a Grin" and the book pop read to me as a kid,

A Streetwalker named Desire.


----------



## Ceegee

Chuck71 said:


> She works retail, smokes weed daily, verbally abuses those who interrupt her sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> When's the wedding?




Wedding?

If she'll keep driving her car over to your hood let her. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chuck71

Ceegee said:


> Wedding?
> 
> If she'll keep driving her car over to your hood let her.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


00:43 in.... that was me, in 1977


----------



## laststraw

Chuck71 said:


> 00:43 in.... that was me, in 1977
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eht9YOoD0v0


and that is just the beginning LOL. Hope they all went uphill from there


----------



## unbe

Ok fellas need some advise:

So two weeks ago I met with realtor to list the house. She took pics and drafted an agreement. Mb and I initially (last year) agreed on a listing price were we thought we should be. I listed AT that price.

I e-signed the form and then it went over to MB. Well, im sure you can guess what's happened. She hasn't signed it yet.

Now a something you should know..I am making the mortgage payments as I am the one living in the house. However, in our d-agreement it states I recoup any principal paid during this time when we go to closing. I have been making the payments alone since last Jan.

So basically delays caused by her are only costing HER money. I am in no rush to sell and any delay only costs HER money.

What's my course of action here? Im sure shes just delaying to get me to react. I haven't reacted at all and have been just advising the relator to keep following up with her. Should I stay this course?


----------



## farsidejunky

How long ago was it sent to MB?


----------



## Chuck71

Stay the course.........


----------



## unbe

farsidejunky said:


> How long ago was it sent to MB?


2 weeks ago


----------



## unbe

Gents update from bizarre world...

So needless to say, the house listing has not been signed by MB.

Lets forget for a second she was the one pushing for it to sell as well as every month its not listed I get to recoup $500 based on our d-agreement.

I have broken off all communication with MB, in my eyes there is nothing further to discuss. We are signed, sealed and delivered.

So two weeks into the delay my realtor advises that MB 'NEEDS' to speak with me. I communicated to the realtor that anything regarding the house can be relayed as the realtor working as a 3rd party. Mainly to just have a 3rd set of ears in case anything goes down.

I hear nothing for about a week until my lawyer reaches out to me saying we have an offer from MB. She has offered to buy my interest out of the home for roughly half of what its worth. I decline the offer and counter (through my laywer) for 95%. I also specifically advise I will not go back and forth and if she doesn't accept I want to list.

A week goes by, nothing.

My realtor reaches out again, MB still needs to speak with me. Wont say why. Gives me a 1 hour window to call her on Friday.

I took that one hour window to go to my lawyer and file a motion with the court to execute the divorce agreement as specified.

The reason for me providing this update is for anyone who is weak right now and in the beginning stages. I was so weak to MB and all her so called moves. I would have jumped at the chance to talk to her. Now I am looking for ways to avoid her.

YOU WILL GET PAST THIS. YOU CAN GET YOUR BALL$ BACK. LISTEN TO THESE GUYS, THEY WILL GET YOU THERE!

You guys want to know what I worry about now....what meat I want to grill tonight, lime or lemon in my corona and doggie or reverse cowgirl with my girlfriend!

STAY STRONG MY FRIENDS


----------



## farsidejunky

Well done, Unbe.


----------



## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Gents update from bizarre world...
> 
> So needless to say, the house listing has not been signed by MB.
> 
> Lets forget for a second she was the one pushing for it to sell as well as every month its not listed I get to recoup $500 based on our d-agreement.
> 
> I have broken off all communication with MB, in my eyes there is nothing further to discuss. We are signed, sealed and delivered.
> 
> So two weeks into the delay my realtor advises that MB 'NEEDS' to speak with me. I communicated to the realtor that anything regarding the house can be relayed as the realtor working as a 3rd party. Mainly to just have a 3rd set of ears in case anything goes down.
> 
> I hear nothing for about a week until my lawyer reaches out to me saying we have an offer from MB. She has offered to buy my interest out of the home for roughly half of what its worth. I decline the offer and counter (through my laywer) for 95%. I also specifically advise I will not go back and forth and if she doesn't accept I want to list.
> 
> A week goes by, nothing.
> 
> My realtor reaches out again, MB still needs to speak with me. Wont say why. Gives me a 1 hour window to call her on Friday.
> 
> I took that one hour window to go to my lawyer and file a motion with the court to execute the divorce agreement as specified.
> 
> The reason for me providing this update is for anyone who is weak right now and in the beginning stages. I was so weak to MB and all her so called moves. I would have jumped at the chance to talk to her. Now I am looking for ways to avoid her.
> 
> YOU WILL GET PAST THIS. YOU CAN GET YOUR BALL$ BACK. LISTEN TO THESE GUYS, THEY WILL GET YOU THERE!
> 
> You guys want to know what I worry about now....what meat I want to grill tonight, lime or lemon in my corona and doggie or reverse cowgirl with my girlfriend!
> 
> STAY STRONG MY FRIENDS


YES!


----------



## Chuck71

Whole point Unbe is this..... she could have taken you to the cleaners on the house.... be honest.

At one time..... yeah, yeah. This was a part of her leverage, and it went up in smoke.

This is a long game, even dating back to 2013..... now with your eyes @ 50k.... nice ain't it?

See..... we guys see what you can't....and now.......

Use that knowledge Luke....


----------



## ReturntoZero

Chuck71 said:


> Whole point Unbe is this..... she could have taken you to the cleaners on the house.... be honest.
> 
> At one time..... yeah, yeah. This was a part of her leverage, and it went up in smoke.
> 
> This is a long game, even dating back to 2013..... now with your eyes @ 50k.... nice ain't it?
> 
> See..... we guys see what you can't....and now.......
> 
> Use that knowledge Luke....


She thought you would fold Unbe.

How's that working out for her?


----------



## Marc878

unbe said:


> You guys want to know what I worry about now....what meat I want to grill tonight, lime or lemon in my corona and doggie or reverse cowgirl with my girlfriend!
> 
> STAY STRONG MY FRIENDS


I like NY strips, lime, I prefer girl on top face to face, love the expressions (you shouldn't have to do all the work)

>


----------



## Chuck71

How's life Unbe?


----------



## unbe

Hellllllllloooooooooooo All,


Its been quite some time since I posted. Let me catch everyone up....

There has been no contact between myself and MB. Its been about as year since any communication. The house is currently in contract and should close by end of Nov. This chapter is finally coming to a close. Since I have gone into contract I have been having some weird dreams about MB, not surprising. 

Still with HW, we are going to be moving into a rental house together. Been dating for a little over a year now so its time. She still puffs on the magic dragon but has gotten her sh$T together and has a good job and some stability. Sex life is still like we first met, HIGH FIVE

Not falling into any old habits which is good. I do need to develop my own life/interest and moving back near my friends and family will certainly help that. 

I cant say i dont think of MB from time to time, more so lately with the house now selling. Fleeting thgouths however and they come and go within a moments notice. 

HW metnioned something that I have heard in the past that needs work on my part. I am somewhat dillusional about money. I am making about half what I was a few years ago and have had a hard time adjusting. Any advise here would certinaly be appreciated and helpful.

Otherwise all is well in UNBE world. I have come out of this stronger and more importantly much more SELF AWARE.


----------



## Chuck71

unbe said:


> Hellllllllloooooooooooo All,
> 
> 
> Its been quite some time since I posted. Let me catch everyone up....
> 
> There has been no contact between myself and MB. Its been about as year since any communication. The house is currently in contract and should close by end of Nov. This chapter is finally coming to a close. Since I have gone into contract I have been having some weird dreams about MB, not surprising.
> 
> Still with HW, we are going to be moving into a rental house together. Been dating for a little over a year now so its time. She still puffs on the magic dragon but has gotten her sh$T together and has a good job and some stability. Sex life is still like we first met, HIGH FIVE
> 
> Not falling into any old habits which is good. I do need to develop my own life/interest and moving back near my friends and family will certainly help that.
> 
> I cant say i dont think of MB from time to time, more so lately with the house now selling. Fleeting thgouths however and they come and go within a moments notice.
> 
> HW metnioned something that I have heard in the past that needs work on my part. I am somewhat dillusional about money. I am making about half what I was a few years ago and have had a hard time adjusting. Any advise here would certinaly be appreciated and helpful.
> 
> Otherwise all is well in UNBE world. I have come out of this stronger and more importantly much more SELF AWARE.


You sound like you are trying to convince yourself of something........ (this applies to your other thread too)


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## unbe

Chuck71 said:


> You sound like you are trying to convince yourself of something........ (this applies to your other thread too)


I don't see it, talk to me goose


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## turnera

In terms of money, I experienced this too. Took a $10K pay cut to take my current job. So I've been thinking about reinventing myself to the new reality. Become a person who takes my hard-earned wisdom and charts a new path. Using the library again. Cutting out alcohol. Bartering for stuff. It's better economically but it's also exciting to have new things going on.


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## unbe

Hi All,

Wanted to wish everyone a happy holiday. Things have been real good. Got a promotion at work that starts 1/1, still with HW and having a blast.

Haven't spoken to MB in forever it seems (honestly cant remember the last time). Have been in contract to sell the house for about 3 months and any day I should be closing. Will most likely run into her at the closing. That should certainly spark up some interesting updates...stay tuned!


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## Chuck71

MB is a person you used to know. Who she is now.... is a stranger. Treat her as such. Did you ever get to

move or are you still sticking your ass in the snow in NY?


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## ReturntoZero

unbe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Wanted to wish everyone a happy holiday. Things have been real good. Got a promotion at work that starts 1/1, still with HW and having a blast.
> 
> Haven't spoken to MB in forever it seems (honestly cant remember the last time). Have been in contract to sell the house for about 3 months and any day I should be closing. Will most likely run into her at the closing. That should certainly spark up some interesting updates...stay tuned!


Since you have to have an attorney anyway (NY law), simply sign a power of attorney and let him close - so he can deal with her.


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## Chuck71

ReturntoZero said:


> Since you have to have an attorney anyway (NY law), simply sign a power of attorney and let him close - so he can deal with her.


Or are you ready to face Vader without a sabre.....? 

There's something to be said about "closing arguments" ...... even when not vocalized......

Choice is entirely yours......


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