# Husband cheated with strippers for 5 years



## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

My husband of 28 years recently admitted he frequented strip clubs while out of town for about 5 years. What started as an in club bj escalated to off site sex with the strippers. Of the many, 3 became regulars with his phone number. He was drunk every time, or so he says. He stopped on his own and came clean with me a year later. He said he has always loved me and never wanted a divorce. He just wanted attention and sex. I freely admit our marriage was not good, we had little sex and I was distant. I was distant because of his drinking (thats why I believe his always being drunk story). He was lonely but so was I. I was just comitted and committed to raising our 3 children. He felt that by keeping it out of town, I wouldnt get hurt as I probably wouldnt find out. He picked strippers because they were disposable. He did not want a relationship. Am I absolutely crazy for contemplating staying? He has a relieved conscience and I have a broken heart. Seeking advice because I can't seem think straight.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Have you obtained counseling?

I think you should probably run but I'm not you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

he's got to get himself treated before you should seriously consider staying.

he needs to join a support group for sex and alcohol abuse. they will hold him accountable, because the truth is, we can't do it on our own no matter what he says
or that he may temporarily seem ok.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

tdeck said:


> Am I absolutely crazy for contemplating staying? straight.


Not crazy...... but he risked giving you life threatening disease's cared not one iota for you or your children was self absorbed and 1001 other condemnations

He is a horrible ....male..will not say man as he isn't

Get STD checks immediately


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

That was the first thing done! Thank you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Have you both been thoroughly tested over the course of six months to a year for STD's?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
The choice to stay or leave is entirely yours. No one else can tell you how YOU should feel about this.

I think that someone who has cheated will likely do so again in the same circumstances. I think you should decide if you want to stay with a man who will likely continue to have sex with strippers. Its fine if you do - there are a lot of people in various forms of open relationships. In fact if you want to stay,that is probably the best way to do it - give him permission, agree on safety.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

I agree that he needs counseling. It's just hard because he is so remorseful that he is depressed and its sucking me in. In the meantime he has changed his job to a non-traveling one and he is home every night from now on. I do wonder if it is temporary.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

Yes. That was first.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Guess it all depends on what "little sex" and "distant" means. If he came to you for sex and affection but was regularly turned away I don't see how you can really complain about how he went about meeting basic human needs that you vowed to take care of. He didn't ask to have sexual or emotional needs and he has no switch to turn them off. He could have solved his rejection problem by leaving you and the kids or by nailing one of your friends and falling in love with her. If he had been constantly turning you away for sex and affection and you went elsewhere he wouldn't have anyone to blame but himself if you had made other arrangements. If I quit feeding my dog, I can't really fault her if she finds food elsewhere.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

That's exactly why I am hesitating. I go back to that I directly told him his drinking turned me off yet he didn' t recognize or care to fix. 6-12 beers a night, almost every night is a bit much.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

tdeck said:


> That's exactly why I am hesitating. I go back to that I directly told him his drinking turned me off yet he didn' t recognize or care to fix. 6-12 beers a night, almost every night is a bit much.


Hit the quote button beneath the post you are answering so we can more easily keep track.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Hit the quote button beneath the post you are answering so we can more easily keep track.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE
> 
> Crap. Sorry. I am new


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> The choice to stay or leave is entirely yours. No one else can tell you how YOU should feel about this.
> 
> I think that someone who has cheated will likely do so again in the same circumstances. I think you should decide if you want to stay with a man who will likely continue to have sex with strippers. Its fine if you do - there are a lot of people in various forms of open relationships. In fact if you want to stay,that is probably the best way to do it - give him permission, agree on safety.


He does recognize the circumstance he was putting himself in. Dinner and drinking with clients. When they left, drinking alone and when all reason was gone....strip club. He is ashamed and vows never to go again and is not travelling anymore to remove himself from the situation. But hes also scared of losing me right now......but then again, never wanted to leave. I am so confused. I did play a part in the breakdown. But he made a choice. Ugh!


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

I keep telling myself "I shouldn't even know" but does that make it ok? He has come completely clean and answered all questions. Some I wish I didn't have answers to. I've never been so confused in all my life.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

tdeck said:


> That's exactly why I am hesitating. I go back to that I directly told him his drinking turned me off yet he didn' t recognize or care to fix. 6-12 beers a night, almost every night is a bit much.


Not trying to be ugly, but there is a point where a husband or wife just quits being a husband or a wife. All that remains is a piece of paper. If things had deteriorated to the point that you were no longer his wife, who was he supposed to be faithful to and why? A piece of paper? I have no idea if he was drinking before you married him or not. If you married a guy who drank heavily, then that's who you picked. Either way, I know when I got married, my vows didn't mention "as long as she doesn't drink" or "as long as she doesn't gain weight" or "as long as she doesn't develop depression". 

If one or both of you quit being husband and wife, then who's the victim if there was some adultery back then? What would they be a victim of? One can't steal abandoned property. Did he give anything away back then that you wanted? 

Again, for me, it would depend on just how much rejection was going on. Making a spouse twist for a week or two might be reasonable. Pushing your wife or husband away for 6 months or a year basically means you have already divorced yourself but just haven't bothered to involve a judge. My wife has turned me down so consistently and for so long I would have not the slightest tinge of guilt if I nailed her own sister right in front of her. She has long ago lost any reasonable expectation of marital faithfulness. I haven't "cheated" on her and don't plan on doing so but in my mind, she quit being a wife long ago and became a dependent, entirely of her own choice. 

Drinking six-12 beers a night isn't nice and it's certainly not helpful to a marriage but it's not worse or more damaging than nailing some unwillingly sexual being to a cross of celibacy, expecting them to be something less than human for all eternity. 

If the guy is an unrepentant alcoholic and just refuses to get help, I'd think that'd be a much better reason for leaving than over some encounter he had with some prostitute several years ago (I imagine the stripper was compensated in some way). If the man is an alcoholic, he's cheating on you and the whole family with booze. An alcoholic owes his family his time, affection, and attention but he gives that to a bottle instead. That's where his heart is. That's who controls his affections. He probably doesn't give those old strippers from years ago a second thought but I bet he can't say the same about booze.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry I'm with unbelievable a bit here.

Both of you sound like you have some positive feelings toward each other coupled with a whole lot of resentment. You both would make terrible partners for someone else right now anyway. Sorry but TTH.

If you love him, I don't think it's wrong to defer deciding what you wJt to do while you work in yourself. Let him know that you NOT leaving doesn't mean you're staying. But there are things you need to do as a woman, mom and wife and figure out how to be a better partner. Then get IC

Encourage him to get IC too.

Work in your communication. Make healthy decisions.

6 beers a night is probably common among traveling business people - sorry but I saw a lot of that. I also saw a lot of guys with angry spouses and they were resentful. Travel sucks.

It's in no way right - and though I travelled almost a decade and frequented strip clubs - I never once considered sex outside my marriage. Then again W and I talked all the time and bonded sexually and emotionally the whole time I was home. Without that? Who knows.

Don't feel pressured to decide just because he was an a55hole. Fix yourself and then decide. You'll be a better person and happier regardless of who you end up with.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Not trying to be ugly, but there is a point where a husband or wife just quits being a husband or a wife. All that remains is a piece of paper. If things had deteriorated to the point that you were no longer his wife, who was he supposed to be faithful to and why? A piece of paper? I have no idea if he was drinking before you married him or not. If you married a guy who drank heavily, then that's who you picked. Either way, I know when I got married, my vows didn't mention "as long as she doesn't drink" or "as long as she doesn't gain weight" or "as long as she doesn't develop depression".
> 
> If one or both of you quit being husband and wife, then who's the victim if there was some adultery back then? What would they be a victim of? One can't steal abandoned property. Did he give anything away back then that you wanted?
> 
> ...


Idk, 6 to 12 drinks a night sounds like alcoholism. And it's perfectly normal to not want sex with someone who is *that* drunk. Its a turn off for most people. The OP advised her husband of such and he took no action.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

unbelievable said:


> Not trying to be ugly, but there is a point where a husband or wife just quits being a husband or a wife. All that remains is a piece of paper. If things had deteriorated to the point that you were no longer his wife, who was he supposed to be faithful to and why? A piece of paper? I have no idea if he was drinking before you married him or not. If you married a guy who drank heavily, then that's who you picked. Either way, I know when I got married, my vows didn't mention "as long as she doesn't drink" or "as long as she doesn't gain weight" or "as long as she doesn't develop depression".
> 
> If one or both of you quit being husband and wife, then who's the victim if there was some adultery back then? What would they be a victim of? One can't steal abandoned property. Did he give anything away back then that you wanted?
> 
> ...


Thank you for the thought and time you put in to this response. It was very insightful. He did not drink like he does when we got married. When it escalated and I asked him to cut back, not stop, he admitted he didn't like being told what to do. We were in a no win situation. It was a big circle jerk. Only differnce is I didn't turn to anyone else.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Sorry I'm with unbelievable a bit here.
> 
> Both of you sound like you have some positive feelings toward each other coupled with a whole lot of resentment. You both would make terrible partners for someone else right now anyway. Sorry but TTH.
> 
> ...


That was helpful. I am thinking of fi ding a retreat to examine myself and what I want.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He ruined your sex life with his drinking and then ruined your trust with his cheating. In my opinion, this starts and ends with him.

In my opinion, you should give yourself some time to see how your opinion of him settles out. People married to cheaters who cheat with prostitutes often lose respect for their spouses and this issue becomes more important with time.

For starters, he should stop the drinking completely. Then, have him read 'How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair':

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

Go to counseling for yourself. No marriage counseling until he has begun his own work.

I wouldn't try to do anything to stay with him if hasn't been sober for a reasonable amount of time. That's condition #1, in my opinion.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

tdeck said:


> Thank you for the thought and time you put in to this response. It was very insightful. He did not drink like he does when we got married. When it escalated and I asked him to cut back, not stop, he admitted he didn't like being told what to do. We were in a no win situation. It was a big circle jerk. Only differnce is I didn't turn to anyone else.


I get that but I also get that anyone can justify anything. I expect in his mind he had justification for his excessive alcohol use and for the hookers. When it comes to adultery, I really don't see the difference between going outside the marriage for sex or withholding sex. Both leave someone cheated out of something they were promised. I would actually argue that withholding is worse. I could theoretically have 50 affairs and my wife not even know. I can't reject her without her knowing each and every time. If my wife doesn't want sex with me and I go elsewhere, she has lost nothing she values. If she comes to me for affection and/or sex and I shove her away, I am deliberately taking something from her that I know she desperately wants. 

It's just a terribly sad situation all around, especially with kids involved. I guess in the end it doesn't matter who gets to be the bad guy in a marriage. A marriage works and both win or it doesn't and everybody loses. It would be great if y'all could both end up with a marriage you both could win in with each other. Divorce is tough on kids (a fact I'm sure you've tormented yourself over enough).


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Unbelievable I don't think this was a sexless marriage. But definitely not a healthy one. And H should have laid down the consequences BEFORE stepping be outside the marriage; OP should have done the same. I get that things gradually change so neither probably intended the downward spiral at the start. Anyway - sex with a bunch of strippers over a period of time is way worse than some withholding of sex and affection. Anyway it's not really a competition as to who can behave worse (though he wins IMO)


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I believe that he really wants to never do that again. I even believe that he believes it. Its just that the temptation will be available again, and there is no reason he will do better at resisting it the next tie.





tdeck said:


> He does recognize the circumstance he was putting himself in. Dinner and drinking with clients. When they left, drinking alone and when all reason was gone....strip club. He is ashamed and vows never to go again and is not travelling anymore to remove himself from the situation. But hes also scared of losing me right now......but then again, never wanted to leave. I am so confused. I did play a part in the breakdown. But he made a choice. Ugh!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

tdeck said:


> I agree that he needs counseling. It's just hard because he is so remorseful that he is depressed and its sucking me in. In the meantime he has changed his job to a non-traveling one and he is home every night from now on. I do wonder if it is temporary.


Please take care of yourself first! I am a sucker for forgiveness and reconciliation if you can bear it but please do remember that cheaters are not the same as non cheaters. To do something like your WH did says alot about the nature of his character.
As the chump lady says they will use charm, anger and self pity to get what they want. And true to form, the alcoholic sucks you in and has you being sorry for him :| Please do not fall for this.

You have to think of your future. If you let him back into your life, it probably will happen again esp if he is not getting professional help. You many really want to consider cutting your losses and moving on, starting afresh without all the pain of his alcoholism and his ability to cheat.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Has he given you a full accounting of how much he has spent on banging all these "many" strippers. They don't perform for free. That's the downside of them being disposable. I can see one or two possibly giving it up for free after hours, but not many. And I suspect strippers is his let you down easy way of saying what he really did- prostitutes.

This is money that should have gone to the house and your three kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The strippers thing does not matter. 

The cheated for five years thing? 

THAT is what matters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Normally, I'll hammer down on cheaters. But in this case, I'm afraid I have to say that I think this is fixable and that BOTH of you need to look really hard at how you let the marriage get to this state. IME, most men don't marry expecting to be replaced by kids. They (perhaps mistakenly) believe that the wife will raise the kids, yes, but that the wife will STILL want to have fun with them, have sex with them, and admire them. And it sounds like that all went out the window in your marriage. He was a drunk, miserable, had no great plans left in life, and just skated along, co-existing, and doing what he did just seemed like a way to manage living in this dead marriage, since he wasn't getting these needs met by you. I don't think he ever wanted to leave you; he just wanted some semblance of what he expected to have.

Read His Needs Her Needs. Together. You'll see what I'm talking about. 

Stay in therapy. Get him to come to grips with the enormity of his lying to you and the sex. Not to mention the family money he wasted on them.

And above all, start talking. A LOT. Without fighting.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> The strippers thing does not matter.
> 
> The cheated for five years thing?
> 
> ...


No, I disagree. it DOES matter. How much money. Especially if she splits from him.

Full disclosure means full disclosure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Do you feel like you can ever trust your H again? If he travels frequently for work, is this something that will always be in the back of your head? Do you think you can honestly have sex with him again and not be thinking about him with other women?


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

If I was your father or brother I would want you to be happy

I wouldn't like you staying with him but I would support what ever decision you choose

If you stayed i would have to have the mother of all talks with him and tell him I would be watching for the rest of his life on his actions


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> No, I disagree. it DOES matter. How much money. Especially if she splits from him.
> 
> Full disclosure means full disclosure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To me if he cheated with strippers or nurses, it's still cheating.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> To me if he cheated with strippers or nurses, it's still cheating.


I get that but at least with nurses it doesn't cost $500 $1000 a pop or however much it costs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> No, I disagree. it DOES matter. How much money. Especially if she splits from him.
> 
> Full disclosure means full disclosure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do know how much. I have told him I would actually prefer prostiutes over the 3 (regulars) he had. I have seen all bank statements that show cash withdrawal s at the clubs. 

I read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your affair and asked him too as well. He was already permorming most acts of a "successful rebuilder". It brought a great deal of clarity to both of us. He was hesitant to go back to or stay in therapy but he gets it now and has set appointments. Im still just trying to figure out if I'm crazy. Sometimes in life you make choices you have to live with. No matter how distant our parallel lives becames, he had choices/options. I need to make a good choice here.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I get that but at least with nurses it doesn't cost $500 $1000 a pop or however much it costs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It depends, as a nurse they may be able to bring some pharmaceuticals into the mix, tab could run up very quick. :grin2:


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

G.J. said:


> If I was your father or brother I would want you to be happy
> 
> I wouldn't like you staying with him but I would support what ever decision you choose
> 
> If you stayed i would have to have the mother of all talks with him and tell him I would be watching for the rest of his life on his actions


Thank you. He does accept me questioning everything as his reality. He doesnt travel much now and has agreed he will do so only if I can go. The question to myself is do I really want to babysit someone the rest of my life?


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

turnera said:


> Normally, I'll hammer down on cheaters. But in this case, I'm afraid I have to say that I think this is fixable and that BOTH of you need to look really hard at how you let the marriage get to this state. IME, most men don't marry expecting to be replaced by kids. They (perhaps mistakenly) believe that the wife will raise the kids, yes, but that the wife will STILL want to have fun with them, have sex with them, and admire them. And it sounds like that all went out the window in your marriage. He was a drunk, miserable, had no great plans left in life, and just skated along, co-existing, and doing what he did just seemed like a way to manage living in this dead marriage, since he wasn't getting these needs met by you. I don't think he ever wanted to leave you; he just wanted some semblance of what he expected to have.
> 
> Read His Needs Her Needs. Together. You'll see what I'm talking about. Ft
> 
> ...


I think you are so close to the truth of it all thats why I am so conflicted. He never wanted an emotional relationship with these ppl. In fact he told me one regular got too closeand invited him to something and he cut her off immediately. He truly felt he was doing our marriage a favor rather than fighting he solved his problem. Cowardly and selfishly.


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## strow (Feb 22, 2016)

tdeck said:


> He truly felt he was doing our marriage a favor rather than fighting he solved his problem. Cowardly and selfishly.


That's some favor. 

It's like saying "oh your car isn't running well, here let me drive it off a cliff".


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

strow said:


> tdeck said:
> 
> 
> > He truly felt he was doing our marriage a favor rather than fighting he solved his problem. Cowardly and selfishly.
> ...


Ha ha that was funny sorry OP but humor is important


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Maybe he was drunk once when he cheated,but this was going on for months. Dont listen to his excuses,just Divorce him.

Stay strong


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what are you two doing to take a look at the marriage?


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## sixbravebulls (Aug 18, 2015)

After 28 years why leave? You're not crazy at all. I think it's crazy to get a divorce after 28 years. Alot of women don't care what their H does out of town.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

If I was your brother the body would never be found.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

turnera said:


> So what are you two doing to take a look at the marriage?


We are both in therapy. Spening a lot of time in brutally honest talks. He's absoltely disgusted with himself. He somehow compartmentalized that part of his life and didn't see it for what it was. Thats for him and his therapist to figure out. I am trying to decide what I want.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

tdeck-28 years is a long marriage. You don't have to make ANY decision that lasts forever right now. You can stay while you see if you want to stay. It sounds like it may be possible through building this "new" marriage that you can both become better partners. It sounds like you are finally getting some vulnerability and intimacy from him. Certainly you are getting some truth. I would decide not to decide…. yet. Wait and see how things go. Can he cut the drinking down/out? Is he able to continue to make a living with less travelling? Can he keep doing all those other things right to help you heal? If he can - then you can decide if you are in or out.

The cheating is all on him. If you had stopped wanting to have sex with him he could have worked with you to figure out how to make that desire come back. He could have told you no sex was a deal breaker and separated. There were always other choices. 

IMO going to strippers without having sex with them is a form of cheating. Would he like it if you frequently had guys strip down in front of you and had their johnson bar in your face? My H used to go to strippers and quit when I used that analogy. He decided he didn't want me to use some guys prop to stir my drink. But thats just me.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

nursejackie said:


> tdeck-28 years is a long marriage. You don't have to make ANY decision that lasts forever right now. You can stay while you see if you want to stay. It sounds like it may be possible through building this "new" marriage that you can both become better partners. It sounds like you are finally getting some vulnerability and intimacy from him. Certainly you are getting some truth. I would decide not to decide…. yet. Wait and see how things go. Can he cut the drinking down/out? Is he able to continue to make a living with less travelling? Can he keep doing all those other things right to help you heal? If he can - then you can decide if you are in or out.
> 
> The cheating is all on him. If you had stopped wanting to have sex with him he could have worked with you to figure out how to make that desire come back. He could have told you no sex was a deal breaker and separated. There were always other choices.
> 
> IMO going to strippers without having sex with them is a form of cheating. Would he like it if you frequently had guys strip down in front of you and had their johnson bar in your face? My H used to go to strippers and quit when I used that analogy. He decided he didn't want me to use some guys prop to stir my drink. But thats just me.


Thank you. We have a daughter that worked extrememly hard to get into CRNA school and it is such a rigorous program students cannot work. She has 2 years left. I cannot put the stress of divorce on her. She needs to focus. I cannot be selfish. I wake up EVERY morning thinking of my husband with other ppl. I cannot escape it. I've decided that if after 2 years I am still waking up with that on my mind, I have to go. I have told my husband this. He understands and still wants to try every day to show that this was a watershed moment in his life and he has changed. Whether I stay or not he is committed to not being a part of that disgusting lifestyle. After reading the book, he felt relieved knowing he was on the track of wanting to heal me....and I was too. It gave me some sort of relief that he is repentent not from fear of the messiness of divorce, he really wants to be here and cares about me healing. He takes his verbal beatings daily, answers questions daily without defense. Whether I can stay or not is to be decided. I am not waking up everyday for the rest of my life with my first thought being a depressing one. Im sure there is someone out there that can change that first morning thought.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Tdeck you might want to PM Lonely Husband 42301. He is in R to his WW and the mental images are the toughest part of his recovery. But he is devoted to trying. 

Those are very person things - you might feel more comfortable being specific with him and vice versa in the privacy of a PM and find out what he is doing to provide relief from the mind movies.

He has said he's staying away from TAM for a while at the request of his IC but maybe you'll catch him before he goes.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My husband attends a 5 step program for sex addiction and cheated on me with a hooker, and we are in R. Doing very well too - you can read more thru my sig link if you want. But it wouldn't be happening if he hadn't done a HUGE amount of work on himself.

It was about 4 months after I kicked him out that I decided I wanted to try to R, and only that soon because I had some really helpful IC sessions.

You need to do a LOT of reading and soul searching, and know that no matter what you decide it's going to be brutally hard.

And it will never work unless he is willing to chop his left nut off upon demand. He needs to be remorseful - TRULY remorseful. There used to be a definition of true remorse around here somewhere.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> My husband attends a 5 step program for sex addiction and cheated on me with a hooker, and we are in R. Doing very well too - you can read more thru my sig link if you want. But it wouldn't be happening if he hadn't done a HUGE amount of work on himself.
> 
> It was about 4 months after I kicked him out that I decided I wanted to try to R, and only that soon because I had some really helpful IC sessions.
> 
> ...


I hear you. So far he's willing to chop off both nuts but I am not falling for it and we are 4 mos since admission. I don't want to punish him but he will be tested. Some ppl may think I'm weak waiting two years but I'vealways been the unselfish one (clearly) and I refuse to jeapordize everything my daughter has worked for. So what if he knows the time frame is two years. Either his watershed moment was legit or not. It doesn't change my plans.

I do believe in second chances if ppl have truly changed. I watched my mom be an alcoholic and be sober the last 20 years. I've watched a coke addict of 20 years turn their life around and find God. Either he has changed or he hasn't. He was/is sick. Why would I offer others kindness and not him


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

sixbravebulls said:


> After 28 years why leave? You're not crazy at all. I think it's crazy to get a divorce after 28 years. Alot of women don't care what their H does out of town.


This is the biggest reason why I get sick of TAM. If I get banned, that's fine. Love all the regulars here and you will always be an inspiration but damn, too much of this **** all the time here.

To the OP, yes you neglected your husband for some time. But having children is a huge investment and many many MANY people fail to balance things with their partner in the beginning. 

He could have talked with you about his needs instead of immediately running out and having sex with strippers.

Once you own up to your mistakes, you are going to see that his excuses for why he did what he did are going to be lamer and much more selfish even though he is reconciliation right now because he doesn't want to lose you. I am afraid that you are getting a lot of ****ty advice here because there is a large pack of husbands who are sex-starved to the point where they are willing to overlook a cheater just because he wasn't getting sex all the time with his wife. Yeah, not the greatest foundation for a marriage. Never an excuse for cheating.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

tdeck said:


> I hear you. So far he's willing to chop off both nuts but I am not falling for it and we are 4 mos since admission. I don't want to punish him but he will be tested. Some ppl may think I'm weak waiting two years but I'vealways been the unselfish one (clearly) and I refuse to jeapordize everything my daughter has worked for. So what if he knows the time frame is two years. Either his watershed moment was legit or not. It doesn't change my plans.
> 
> I do believe in second chances if ppl have truly changed. I watched my mom be an alcoholic and be sober the last 20 years. I've watched a coke addict of 20 years turn their life around and find God. Either he has changed or he hasn't. He was/is sick. Why would I offer others kindness and not him


I have had alchoholics in my family. One of the greatest things you can do is to stop rescuing and enabling behavior. What does that mean? Let them feel the consequences. They only truly examine their behavior once they MUST take responsibility. 

Having kindness and empathy for them does not you have to take them back without them feeling the consequences. By taking him back he isn't understanding the gravity of the situation. He will cheat on you again. Am I being blunt? Yes. Do I want you to lose him forever? No. 

But I have been through the alcoholic and cheating cycle and feeling like I just needed to FEEL and EMPATHIZE more by accepting and forgiving instead of realizing that I could feel and empathize while allowing them to have their consequences.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

VirgenTecate said:


> This is the biggest reason why I get sick of TAM. If I get banned, that's fine. Love all the regulars here and you will always be an inspiration but damn, too much of this **** all the time here.
> 
> To the OP, yes you neglected your husband for some time. But having children is a huge investment and many many MANY people fail to balance things with their partner in the beginning.
> 
> ...


Agree 100% - if you see enough and read enough about infidelity EVERY cheater, every fvcking one has their laundry list of excuses why they decided to destroy another human being. Along with physical abuse - infidelity is the most EVIL thing you can do to your spouse but yet they sit there with a straight face trying to justify it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I am not a BS. But I do understand why your H did what he did. This understanding is not "cheering him on". 

I understand that some TAM members have experience with addiction - sex, drugs, alcohol. That experience is very valuable, but if is only equal to - and not better then - the experienced of the BS and sex starved spouses.

What one must do to stop enabling an addict can inform your actions. But that is not the complete and final answer in YOUR situation.

Yours is very interesting... Long marriage, needs not being met, travel, physical and emotional distance, alcohol, communication issues that almost always happen slowly over time in a long marriage.

BUT - I see a lot of love, caring, compassion. That stuff is gold and is missing in one part of most TAM threads. Yet I see these characteristics in you and in your Hs contortions in both trying to meet his needs, abate his guilt and shame, and treat you gently as his wife.

Dies the behavior suck? Was it a huge hit to the marriage? Will it have long term costs to BOTH of you and your kids? Yes yes and yes.

I don't have to evaluate the "goodness" or "badness" of his actions and intentions, nor yours. That's your job and your Hs job alone. People on TAM have strong opinions on this but they don't really matter in the long run.

What I DO know is that your H probably had his #1 need in the whole marriage unmet by you. That probably makes you feel like sh#t and probably loves you too much to show his emptiness and hurt that this would happen to him for so many years from his love. I'll go ahead and assume your #1 or #2 needs were equally ignored by him, leaving you hurt and lonely in the marriage.

TAM members who haven't read His Needs Her Needs and think sex is a selfish, optional act by men should read that book. It will be an eye opener. 

A man without sex in their marriage is like a woman in a marriage with a H who can't hold a job, continually gets evicted from apartments and doesn't have enough money to maintain a household. Or a woman who never gets her text messages and phone calls returned by her H, whose H is too tired to even talk when he gets home, and doesn't want to waste time talking about her unimportant issues.

These things happen all the time in marriage because men and women don't understand what the other NEEDS as opposed to wants or enjoys.

Your H made terrible choices. But I see hope there in the willingness of both of you to reach each other. I see kindness and consideration. That is what you need to lock onto while you consider your options.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

It is true that at the end of the day my opinion means nothing to the OP.

What I am worried about is not that they will reconcile. if they do, I am happy. 


What it seems to me is that there is a lot of wish to just move on because he seems remorseful. She needs to not just get advice about how remorseful he seems. She needs to get advice on how to judge and gauge that remorse and how reconciliation works if that is where she is headed. 

Yes, not having sex with someone you are married to is not great. But, why was there no empathy from him about her having a child? having her body go through that pain? having new responsibilities? Do we know how much he helped her with? Did he expect her to keep on having sex with him at the same rate but did not even give her an hour break from the kids to go from being touched by kids to being touched by her husband? He seemed to have a lot of time to go from work, to dinners to hundreds spent on strippers. How much responsibility was she left with and then expected to meet his needs?

He admits he made a mistake. Good. A good first step to reconciliation but warning her that that is not all there is to it is not rooting for them to divoce. I still feel that he has not met consequences. As said before, my feelings are irrelevant compared to the OP.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

One last thing.

I would be more willing to agree with the reconciliation if it was not for 5 years. The amount lack of remorse for all that time and the amount of lies means that you shouldn't trust a man just because for a few days, weeks, months he seems remorseful. This is a LONG process with a lot of checkmarks on the way. 

This is what the OP is in for.

Not...well you didn't have sex so what did you expect and he seems remorseful so it seems all good.

Serial Cheating comes from a sense of entitlement.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

VirgenTacate have you read His Needs Her Needs? Because by your posts it seems you haven't.

Yes she should have had sex when she was pregnant, caring for the kids, etc. yes absolutely. Yes times ten thousand.

Sex doesn't have to mean PIV. It can be touching, hugging, kissing, HJ, BJ.

But when a woman doesn't feel like it for a long period of time - even for a valid reason - she is not meeting his #1 need and is a roommate for that period of time.

Your not liking that doesn't make it not true.

Men want their woman's touch and crave their attention. Kids push that away and amplify the problem. Good men try to find workarounds. OP's H had an interesting one that I would not have chosen. His being 1000% wrong doesn't make her wrongs any less. OP knows this and is examining herself along the way - which is great.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

TheTruthHurts,

Yes I have read that book and I have done the quizzes multiple times with my partner.

I understand what you are saying about needs being met

But a mantra here is that just because needs aren't being met doesn't mean that cheating is justified.

Sex is extremely important to a relationship.

But so is trust.

So how are they going to reconcile? By just saying its all ok? Or are they going to have a plan of accountability? That is what I am focusing on. If your posts do not focus on that aspect I will not respond to them as that is what I am focusing on.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What the he!! difference does it make that they had 'little' sex? My husband tried to play that card. Claimed that every two weeks or so wasn't enough. Meanwhile I was complaining about the same thing. He dropped that attitude after about 2 seconds let me tell you. It's ridiculous.

HNHN assumes two people who want to work on the marriage. It's fine to read for information and understanding, but if your partner doesn't go for it and work on things with you there's not much sense, really, because why stay married then?

In this case she ABSOLUTELY needs to evaluate his remorse over a period of time, and she needs to be ready to pull the plug at any time in the future if he acts out again or even if he starts acting unremorseful. Part of him acting remorseful should definitely be for them to attend MC, for him to attend IC and possible be evaluated by a certified sex addictions therapist and/or attend a 12 step program (for some reason I put 5 step above - duh), and for them to work on things like HNHN together.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

Thank you all for the food for thought. It is why I reached out. Everyone has said something of substance and truth. I am absolutley taking my time and am honest to myself when I say it's about my daughter. I absolutely admit he was sex deprived and we are both at fault for the distance. Did he make the wrong choice....absolutely. More has come to light and I am looking for ppl with more experience with this....this all started 5 years ago with him viewing porn and master**ing to fill his needs, he said about 3 times a week. If we were having sex once a month it was lucky. The porn led to visiting a strip club while on the road as he was not getting what he wanted from that. He still kept watching the porn and after visiting strip clubs a while, it led to BJ's. When that did not seem to give him what he was chasing AND still watching porn becoming desensitized to it, it eventually led to sex for about 2 of the years. There he didn't find what he was chasing, claims it was even becoming tedious. Looking back now he feels like he was play acting (porn scenes) and wasn't getting the release he was looking for. He tried one stripper for awhile and she became cumbersome so that wasn't what he was looking for. The last year of it was strip clubs with no sex. He had confronted me about that time about his unhappiness and we were working on better communication. I had no idea what he had done. When he wasn't finding what he was looking for in sex with strippers, he had looked into that cheaters website that got busted. He talked to a few women but realized they were looking for something emotional and left the site. (Showed me the fee he paid to get off the site so timeline has been verified-it was prior to the hack) Then they got hacked. So four months ago, he recieved a blackmail letter and brought it to me right away and came clean. Would he have come clean without that letter? Probably not but he had also considered not telling me and waiting to see what happened as he figured it was a scammer (and we have heard nothing). He just couldnt take living with it all anymore and was/is fully prepared for me to divorce him. He does not want a divorce and is giving me the extreme ugly so that I know exactly what I am dealing with. He says if I choose to stay he wants no secrets and that I am staying despite knowing everything. He is in therapy. I am concerned he developed a porn addiction but know nothing about them. Anyone?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

'Porn addiction' is a misnomer - it's actually Sex Addiction, or a form of it.

Your husband is the one who needs to address this, though, not you. Try reading Mending a Shattered Heart by Stephanie Carnes. Patrick Carnes, her ex, wrote In The Shadows of the Net about cybersex addiction, which my husband swore he had for a time, until he found himself getting a BJ from a hooker and realized it was far more. He's attended a 12 step program for sex addicts for 5 1/2 years now. I know way more about this crap than I EVER wanted to.

What kind of 'therapy' is your husband in? Because run of the mill counselors can often do more harm than good with a sex addict.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> 'Porn addiction' is a misnomer - it's actually Sex Addiction, or a form of it.
> 
> Your husband is the one who needs to address this, though, not you. Try reading Mending a Shattered Heart by Stephanie Carnes. Patrick Carnes, her ex, wrote In The Shadows of the Net about cybersex addiction, which my husband swore he had for a time, until he found himself getting a BJ from a hooker and realized it was far more. He's attended a 12 step program for sex addicts for 5 1/2 years now. I know way more about this crap than I EVER wanted to.
> 
> What kind of 'therapy' is your husband in? Because run of the mill counselors can often do more harm than good with a sex addict.


He is in counseling one on one right now. I will look more at his credentials. And oh yes, this is his problem and the first step is admitting it. Thank you.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

tdeck said:


> He is in counseling one on one right now. I will look more at his credentials. And oh yes, this is his problem and the first step is admitting it. Thank you.


BTW does the 12 srep process have meetings like AA and what are they called?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Heavens yes - there are several. My husband attends SAA.

Sex Addiction Centers, Clinics, & Programs, 12 Step Recovery Programs for Sex Addiction

They differ in their philosophy, and some require a 90 day abstinence period that includes not having sex with a spouse.

The services of a CSAT are also highly recommended

Sex Addiction Therapist Directory, Find a Sex Addiction Therapist


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

tdeck said:


> Thank you. We have a daughter that worked extrememly hard to get into CRNA school and it is such a rigorous program students cannot work. She has 2 years left. I cannot put the stress of divorce on her. She needs to focus. I cannot be selfish. I wake up EVERY morning thinking of my husband with other ppl. I cannot escape it. I've decided that if after 2 years I am still waking up with that on my mind, I have to go. I have told my husband this. He understands and still wants to try every day to show that this was a watershed moment in his life and he has changed. Whether I stay or not he is committed to not being a part of that disgusting lifestyle. After reading the book, he felt relieved knowing he was on the track of wanting to heal me....and I was too. It gave me some sort of relief that he is repentent not from fear of the messiness of divorce, he really wants to be here and cares about me healing. He takes his verbal beatings daily, answers questions daily without defense. Whether I can stay or not is to be decided. I am not waking up everyday for the rest of my life with my first thought being a depressing one. Im sure there is someone out there that can change that first morning thought.


I'm in awe of you right now, tbh.  It takes a lot of strength to leave a relationship that had infidelity, but it takes perhaps greater strength to forgive as you have. I have tears in my eyes reading this, Idk why. I normally would suggest to leave...no questions asked, but this paragraph, Idk. You seem strong, in a different way, and it's inspiring, for what it's worth.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Really glad you're staying at 40,000 feet and assessing this as objectively as possible. Pretty amazing, actually.

I'm not so convinced he's a sex addict.

Had a friend in college - good looking, a player, super nice, but definitely could look into a girls eyes and she knew she was naked doing nasty things with him. I dont mean he was creepy - I mean he looked at them like raw meat and they responded. He had tons of amazingly beautiful girls... It was unbelievable. I assumed he was just a successful player. But his dad had murdered his mom recently, he didn't get along with his stepdad, his sister was hospitalized with schizophrenia and he was only 19. That look in his eye - it probably was hunger and yearning... and that animal attraction was a deeply wounded guy seeking some sort of release. I bet that would classify as a sex addiction.

Your H, however, might not have found what he was looking for if it was your love and affection. Could be that simple. That unfulfilled need coupled with bad judgement could be all it was.

The only time I really have access to my true emotions is during and after sex with my wife. I didn't know this until I saw a sex therapist - thought I just wanted sex - and I too watched a lot of porn but found it unfulfilling. I still like porn because we are not where I think i need to be sexually and I don't want to pressure my wife. But I now know my angst and sexual obsession was really a need for my Ws affection.

You probably don't feel too affectionate toward H now so IDK how this gets resolved. Maybe affectionate touches - even hands - with reassurance you love him even if you don't know what you will decide. I bet he just craves your affection.

And the porn and strippers won't provide that.

It still sucks that he made the choices he did. IDK what you should do. It's amazing you've been this understanding.


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Really glad you're staying at 40,000 feet and assessing this as objectively as possible. Pretty amazing, actually.
> 
> I'm not so convinced he's a sex addict.
> 
> ...


Thank you for weighing in. It may have started as you are suggesting but it did grow into an addiction. Even he admits it. He could not stop himself from going to a strip club even with no sex involved and continued with porn. He sees it and unfortunately he had to hurt me to save himself by coming clean and he feels awful about that realization. He admits that without that blackmail letter, he very well could still be going to clubs and probably resume having sex. His therapist has told him he can NEVER view porn and never step in a strip club again.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Wow sorry. sounds like you are being the strong one now. Do you have a good support network of your own?


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## tdeck (Feb 21, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Wow sorry. sounds like you are being the strong one now. Do you have a good support network of your own?


Not really but its because I don't want anyone to know. I need to have it digested. Daily I still have to remind myself it was not my fault. You all on this site are currently my support group. I have gone to a therapist 3 times....I think I need a different one. Looking into a weekend retreat for myself. I'm also waiting to see how his counseling goes. He needs to go first. If he can't do this, why would I waste my time with S-anon or the like. I would need to focus on a "moving on" support group.


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