# 2 years ago today...



## Almostrecovered

...my wife started her PA

strangely, I am calm in saying this and while there are still some small residues of anxiety (hence my name, I will be always be "almost recovered") I have finally come to a peaceful place.

In the next few days I will tell my story for a few reasons-

1) to get the damn thing off my chest, I've spilled my story on other boards but never in it's entirety. I am hoping for some catharsis through my past self.
2) to look back with hindsight vision and see what I did wrong and what I did right in order to help others not make the same mistakes or learn from what worked
3) to offer hope, I realize that what my wife and I have managed to accomplish in the wake of destruction is something that isn't easy to do but can offer a glimpse that if two people are willing that it can be done
4) to share and commiserate with others who have also exposed themselves and their story, it's only fair


I will post my story in bits and pieces as to be detailed and hopefully you won't find this to be too boring or self-indulgent.

Comments are always welcome


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 1-

Family history of infidelity

Winter of 1988- I'm 18 and it's my first year at college and I'm a 3 hour drive away from home. It's Thanksgiving break and I hop on a train and get picked up by my father who I just absolutely idolize and adore; we were very close at the time. On the 40 minute ride home, he's rambling about many things and seems quite excited about something. Eventually he starts to talk about how he understands how marriages fail and how people grow apart. He complains about my mother in a lot ways and while I was uncomfortable with the way the conversation was going, I sympathize with my Dad's situation because I identified with him more than my mother at the time.

Christmas of 1988- I'm home from college again and on the 27th my father announces he's taking a walk in the park near our house. This isn't odd behavior for him to do as he is very active with biking, canoeing and hiking. Though it was a bit strange considering the weather was cold and cloudy. I catch up with friends in the neighborhood and come home and notice that even though it's 8 hours later, my father isn't back. I ask my mother, "That's weird, 8 hours is really long for a hike isn't it?" I find out months later that my innocent inquiry was what set my Mother into looking at my father's activities closely.

February of 1989- I come home for a surprise visit. (more really to see my high school girlfriend at the time) Dad picks me up again and starts to tell me how glad he is that I came home because I'll be needed. He then drops the bomb that he's been having an affair and my mother found out. He has to consider everything that's happened and doesn't know if he wants to stay married. Thus he is taking a 4 day trip to Puerto Rico "by himself" to think things over. He also tells me to be nice to my mom and that they are having dinner out that night to talk before he leaves in the early morning. Needless to say I'm devastated by the news. My bubble has burst. I get home and my mom gives me a huge hug and cries. They soon go out to dinner and I have my girlfriend come over and lean on her. (interesting footnote- I lose my virginity that night)

The next morning at around 5am I wake up and see my mother standing over me shaking like a leaf and crying. She's clearly having a breakdown. I find out that my father wasn't going alone (he lied, dummy me) and was going to PR with his mistress. This moment changes my life as everything I knew has completely been set on its head. I get her to the doctors and she gets meds. It was a horrible weekend to say the least. I find out things about my father's lies and start to see her side of things very clearly. I do my best to take care of her and even missed a day of school and went back to college late.

My father comes back and says he ended it and will go to counseling with my mother. I think things will get better.

Think again.

Over the next three years I have to be the one who my mother relies on while my father continues to have on again off again affairs with the same woman. In a lot of ways, our roles reversed as I became parental to my mother in my early 20's. I began to despise my father as I watched my mother make many changes to make him happy (like losing a lot of weight and doing things he liked) yet he couldn't do the one thing to make her happy and stop seeing this other woman. I was really thrown in the middle in many ways. My mother even begged me to call my dad one night to get him to come home when she knew he was at her place.

Needless to say the stress was unbearable and that coupled with my blossoming bipolar disorder I eventually drop out of college.

The whole situation really made me hate both my parents in a lot of ways. My father for obvious reasons as I really admired him and modeled myself around him only to find out he was terribly flawed. Now while I didn't hate my mother, I hated the way she wouldn't stand up for her self and just leave the bastard. I also dreaded whenever I saw my home number on the caller ID at college because I was afraid I would have to deal with the same @#$!* all over again. I began to harbor feelings that she was pathetic to take him back over and over again. Understandably I feel horrible that I felt this way about my parents but looking back I see why I did.

I made myself a promise that I would never cheat on my girlfriend/future wife and would try to repair a relationship or get out before seeing another woman. I also promised to myself that I wouldn't forgive anyone who did the same to me.

A year back from dropping out of college I lived at home with my mother and my brother. Just when I thought they would get officially divorced they reconciled. I wasn't too happy with her decision but realized that it was her decision. I began to distance myself from them and stayed out late getting high or drunk and struggled with my bipolar disorder. I used any excuse to stay out of the house. I would often work 80 hours a week as a retail assistant manager getting extra shifts at other stores in an hour radius when other managers called out or were on vacation. (it was at this store where I met my now wife BTW)


----------



## Almostrecovered

It is end of winter in 1994 (February?) and my parents have been back together for almost year now. There are no signs of my father cheating on her, but I admit at this point I wasn't looking nor caring if he did, I just wanted nothing to do with it. One day, I come home from work and see my parents at the kitchen table looking woeful and they're asking me to sit down as they have something to tell me. I think to myself, "Oh great, here we go again!"

The news was far worse-

My mother was diagnosed with stage 5 colon cancer and it had already spread to her liver, where several inoperable tumors resided. Her chances of living past a year are not good.


I do have to give my father some credit as he really did take care of her that year and made her happy. She passed almost a year from her diagnosis. Fortunately it didn't get really painful or bad until the last 2 weeks of her life. We had her in our living room when she finally passed away early in the morning the day after my brother's birthday.

At this point I had patched things up with my father for the most part, especially having witnessed his care taking of my mother. We agreed to start a business together and I ran it while he funded it while he worked at his regular job.

It's November of 1995 and my mother has been dead since February, our business seems to be working and taking off (we're doing it out of the house and we started to look for warehouses in the area). My brother who is a math guy did the accounting on the side while he held his teaching job. He calls me up and tells me he forgot to pay the phone bill and if I could write the check and mail it. I can't find the bill in the bills due folder- I figure it must've been mixed in the house bills. I go downstairs and start looking through my father's bills. For whatever reason, my eye catches a glimpse of a weird charge on his credit card bill. It's from August (when he took a trip to Vegas for business) and the charge was for $72 for "The Chapel of Love".

"wait what?!!"

That's one of those quickie marriage places! My father has been secretly remarried less than 6 months from my mother's death! I start to scour his credit card bills and discover that he had dinner on Valentine's Day 3 days before my mother's death at an Indian restaurant. I know that the total of this bill is definitely a dinner for two. The bastard had dinner with his mistress and now wife while I sat next to her watching her die on Valentine's day. Back in February he had told me he needed a small break that day and went out to dinner- I thought nothing of it at the time and understood needing some time away after spending over a week at her side. Being Valentine's day wasn't even a consideration for me.

I packed my things, found a place to live with a friend and left the business (my brother took over, I became a car salesman of all things). I didn't speak to my father for 3 years. It wasn't until I went to get engaged and wanted my mother's stone for the ring that I spoke to him.

In some ways this was good for me- I finally started to control my bipolar disorder and I learned to support myself. I was just so angry at the lies of my father. Was I disappointed he got married so quickly after her death? yes But it was his life and he couldnt hurt my mother anymore. I just didn't want to be a part of his life for a period of time.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I should mention that my wife and I were getting serious during this horrible time period. She never shrank away from all of the stress during this time and that's when I knew she'd be a keeper.


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> It is end of winter in 1994 (February?) and my parents have been back together for almost year now. There are no signs of my father cheating on her, but I admit at this point I wasn't looking nor caring if he did, I just wanted nothing to do with it. I come home from work and see my parents at the kitchen table looking remorse and they're asking me to sit down as they have something to tell me. I think to myself, "Oh great, here we go again!"
> 
> The news was far worse-
> 
> My mother was diagnosed with stage 5 colon cancer and it had already spread to her liver, where several inoperable tumors resided. Her chances of living past a year are not good.
> 
> 
> I do have to give my father some credit as he really did take care of her that year and made her happy. She passed almost a year from her diagnosis. Fortunately it didn't get really painful or bad until the last 2 weeks of her life. We had her in our living room when finally passed early in the morning after my brother's birthday.
> 
> At this point I had patched things up with my father for the most part, especially having witnessed his care taking of my mother. We agreed to start a business together and I ran it while he funded it while he worked at his regular job.
> 
> It's November of 1995 and my mother has been dead since February, our business seems to be working and taking off (we're doing it out of the house and we started to look for warehouses in the area). My brother who is a math guy did the accounting on the side while he held his teaching job. He calls me up and tells me he forgot to pay the phone bill and if I could write the check and mail it. I can't find the bill in the bills due folder- I figure it must've been mixed in the house bills. I go downstairs and start looking through my father's bills. For whatever reason, my eye catches a glimpse of a weird charge on his credit card bill. It's from August (when he took a trip to Vegas for business) and the charge was for $72 for "The Chapel of Love".
> 
> "wait what?!!"
> 
> That's one of those quickie marriage places! My father has been secretly remarried less than 6 months from my mother's death! I start to scour his credit card bills and discover that he had dinner on Valentine's Day 3 days before my mother's death at an Indian restaurant. I know that the total of this bill is definitely a dinner for two. The bastard had dinner with his mistress and now wife while I sat next to her watching her die on Valentine's day. Back in February he had told me he needed a small break that day and went out to dinner- I thought nothing of it at the time and understood needing some time away after spending over a week at her side. Being Valentine's day wasn't even a consideration for me.
> 
> I packed my things, found a place to live with a friend and left the business (my brother took over, I became a car salesman of all things). I didn't speak to my father for 3 years. It wasn't until I went to get engaged and wanted my mother's stone for the ring that I spoke to him.
> 
> In some ways this was good for me- I finally started to control my bipolar disorder and I learned to support myself. I was just so angry at the lies of my father. Was I disappointed he got married so quickly after her death? yes But it was his life and he couldnt hurt my mother anymore. I just didn't want to be a part of his life for a period of time.


WOW a secret wedding in Vegas? BTW, my Dad has always been a cheater as well, ever since I was a little girl I knew of his mistresses.


----------



## Craggy456

I'm already starting to cry


----------



## Almostrecovered

really strange, isnt it? He actually married her and lived at home without her and never made any announcement or brought her home. (although she immediately shacked up much to my brother's chagrin after I exposed him)


----------



## Almostrecovered

Craggy456 said:


> I'm already starting to cry




and I havent even gotten to my wife's infidelity yet!!


----------



## HurtinginTN

Thanks for sharing. Already, it shows some of the normal symptoms we see. And this was years ago. It does show the taking it deeper underground has been a pattern for a long time. Dogs bark, cats meow, cheaters lie and try to cover up their affair.


----------



## Almostrecovered

HurtinginTN said:


> Thanks for sharing. Already, it shows some of the normal symptoms we see. And this was years ago. It does show the taking it deeper underground has been a pattern for a long time. Dogs bark, cats meow, cheaters lie and try to cover up their affair.


I definitely have a lot more perspective regarding my dad's affair after being on infidelity message boards for over a year now


----------



## better than before

My father was also a cheater. I was only 5, but I remember meeting the woman( mom went nuts over that)! My mother found out on Father's Day when mistress 1 came to tell her about mistress 2; devastating for my mother. They did manage to move past all this after almost divorce. It is so hard to witness these things, but I know my parents did really love each other. They were married 22 years before my father took his own life. His funeral was the day of their 23 anniversary. He had so many demons; told his friends he didn't deserve me or my mother. I miss him so much, but at least he is at peace. Life can throw crazy things at you. On a positive, dealing with suicide of my dad at 18 and my H's EA have shown me that I am a fighter, not a victim. I have derived a lot of confidence from this ability to accept these things, learn what I can, and pick up the pieces. I do believe that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger! I also understand my dad and my H better after being on this forum. Thanks to all who share their experiences.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 2-

My wife, our relationship and marriage

To this day my wife always says with a smile when we tell people how we met-
"I hated him at first, he was an egotistical ass!"

But, I tend to grow on people like a wart.

My wife was only 17 when we met and while I thought she was attractive I had no interest in dating a high school student as I was 24. Nevertheless, my wife was right in that I was indeed an egotistical ass as I was still trying to control the manic swings of my bipolar disorder. My wife was also a shy girl, not a social butterfly by any stretch of the imagination and I tend to gravitate towards those types of people. I hone in with my brashness and try to break these people of their shells.

We eventually became friends, would often go to diners or play billiards after late shifts or inventory at work, usually in groups. She graduated HS, and two months after her turning 18 we went to go see the Lion King in the theaters as friends. That night we found ourselves groping and kissing, etc.

Our relationship, founded in friendship grew quickly, there was no awkward stage as we already knew each other well. My wife having had only one boyfriend prior to our dating was still a virgin, I had the honor of taking that from her. Eventually she moved in my apartment with me (after Mom's death and me shunning Dad) as I helped support her during her attending college. I proposed during her senior year and we planned on having our wedding after her getting a job in 12-18 months. 

But as life usually does, it threw a curve ball at us.

She became pregnant with my first son. No biggie or real scandal as we already had plans to marry, we just moved up the schedule a bit. (she was just starting to show at the wedding) We had an offer by her parents to live with them for a period of time so we could save and have help with the baby and eventually get a house. The plan worked and before my son was 2 we had purchased the home we live in today. At this point my relationship with Dad became less strained and since the business was taking off and they needed help I was brought back into the fold.

side note- Early in our marriage I actually expressed concern to my wife (due to my dad and his excuses) that since she had next to no sexual experience that come midlife crisis time she would betray me and wish to experience someone else. She would always reassure me that she would never do that and loved me too much and I was stuck with her.

Soon after my second son was born (this one planned), we really were hitting our stride. Life was good, money was fine, two wonderful babies, sex life was good and frequent, we really enjoyed each other's company and most problems were minor. 

Looking back the one dynamic that was bad was the fact that we are both passive aggressive. When one would feel slighted or not get their needs/wants met instead of expressing them in a open way we would try to guilt the other one or make sarcastic comments.

How many Almostrecovereds does it take to screw in a light bulb?

"that's okay, I'll sit in the dark"

to be continued later


----------



## tess80

Wow. Sorry you have to be here. Can't wait to read the rest, please keep writing..


----------



## southern wife

tess80 said:


> Wow. Sorry you have to be here. Can't wait to read the rest, please keep writing..


Yep I'm waiting for more as well.


----------



## Almostrecovered

sorry been busier at work than usual, will try later


----------



## Almostrecovered

alas, after some really solid wonderful years of growth and happiness we ran into some bad luck

About 2 years after the birth of our second child my wife's legs kept feeling like they were asleep (pins and needles) and the feeling wouldn't go away. After several doctor's appointments, an MRI and a spinal tap (which she had a terrible reaction to), she was diagnosed with MS.

We both were stunned and scared of the future now. We were now looking at expensive drugs (even with insurance) to "maybe" help my wife's condition as she could look forward towards relapsing and remitting lesions on her neural network. Possible blindness, paralysis, wheelchairs etc

Fortunately, in the 8 years since her diagnosis, her condition is considered mild compared to some cases. Plus with new drug tests on the horizon my wife's outlook is much better now as it doesn't appear she will end up in a wheelchair or have anything too dibilatating. Nevertheless, we didn't know that then and it was something that weighed heavily on my wife. Even today, the facial tics and numbness in her fingertips drive her crazy.

And it weighed heavily on me as well. Yet because of my years of needing to suppress negative emotions due to my bipolar disorder I'm afraid I didn't address her the illness the way she needed me to. I know this now from after dday discussions but at the time I projected a apathetic attitude towards her MS, I felt that if I did this I can alleviate her stress if I made her think it wasn't a big deal.

Aside from the MS, my wife started to become unhappy in her job. Without going into detail, she worked a hospital job. She had the same amount of education and training as a nurse but her particular field never paid as well, never got recognition that others did and she had to deal with a lot of hospital bureaucracy. Add the fact that she is a wallflower type of personality she often felt left out of the group of coworkers.

Thus we decided together that while she was still young (almost 30 at this point), it would behoove her to go back to school to get a masters in another related field that would make her happy (sorry wont say what), get more money and more recognition. The problem was that in order to afford it and also have time for school and work at the same time she had to take the graveyard shift at a different hospital. (this also allowed us to pull the kids from day care when they werent in school)

This move proved to be a huge mistake, I believe it affected her MS negatively due to lack of sleep, it affected her emotional well being and we now spent a lot less time together and only slept in the same bed twice in a week. Thus our sex life dwindled to maybe twice a month as a result.


My wife and I viewed her night shift as a necessary evil that would eventually be over and something we would slog through to get to the golden ring.


Of course, having been lonely at night with the kids in bed and the wife at work I began to spend way too much time on facebook and playing dumb games like mafia wars and some online poker. I now started to divert my attention to reconnecting with old friends instead of where I should have focusing more.

I will say that even though I had reconnected with old female friends I purposely allowed my wife to view any and all emails/FB messages that she wanted to and if I ever met with them I always tried to get my wife to join us and never put myself in a spot where we would be alone that wasn't a public place (and no bars) and always tried to include husbands. Mind you I didn't go galavanting around too much either, I had maybe gone out about twice a month if that.

so as we near my wife's affair I can say that looking back we had problems that weren't being addressed. But I was complacent back then, I didn't think we had anything too earth shattering to deal with. 





I know now that complacency is your enemy


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> alas, after some really solid wonderful years of growth and happiness we ran into some bad luck
> 
> About 2 years after the birth of our second child my wife's legs kept feeling like they were asleep (pins and needles) and the feeling wouldn't go away. After several doctor's appointments, an MRI and a spinal tap (which she had a terrible reaction to), she was diagnosed with MS.
> 
> We both were stunned and scared of the future now. We were now looking at expensive drugs (even with insurance) to "maybe" help my wife's condition as she could look forward towards relapsing and remitting lesions on her neural network. Possible blindness, paralysis, wheelchairs etc
> 
> Fortunately, in the 8 years since her diagnosis, her condition is considered mild compared to some cases. Plus with new drug tests on the horizon my wife's outlook is much better now as it doesn't appear she will end up in a wheelchair or have anything too dibilatating. Nevertheless, we didn't know that then and it was something that weighed heavily on my wife. Even today, the facial tics and numbness in her fingertips drive her crazy.
> 
> And it weighed heavily on me as well. Yet because of my years of needing to suppress negative emotions due to my bipolar disorder I'm afraid I didn't address her the illness the way she needed me to. I know this now from after dday discussions but at the time I projected a apathetic attitude towards her MS, I felt that if I did this I can alleviate her stress if I made her think it wasn't a big deal.
> 
> Aside from the MS, my wife started to become unhappy in her job. Without going into detail, she worked a hospital job. She had the same amount of education and training as a nurse but her particular field never paid as well, never got recognition that others did and she had to deal with a lot of hospital bureaucracy. Add the fact that she is a wallflower type of personality she often felt left out of the group of coworkers.
> 
> Thus we decided together that while she was still young (almost 30 at this point), it would behoove her to go back to school to get a masters in another related field that would make her happy (sorry wont say what), get more money and more recognition. The problem was that in order to afford it and also have time for school and work at the same time she had to take the graveyard shift at a different hospital. (this also allowed us to pull the kids from day care when they werent in school)
> 
> This move proved to be a huge mistake, I believe it affected her MS negatively due to lack of sleep, it affected her emotional well being and we now spent a lot less time together and only slept in the same bed twice in a week. Thus our sex life dwindled to maybe twice a month as a result.
> 
> 
> My wife and I viewed her night shift as a necessary evil that would eventually be over and something we would slog through to get to the golden ring.
> 
> 
> Of course, having been lonely at night with the kids in bed and the wife at work I began to spend way too much time on facebook and playing dumb games like mafia wars and some online poker. I now started to divert my attention to reconnecting with old friends instead of where I should have focusing more.
> 
> I will say that even though I had reconnected with old female friends I purposely allowed my wife to view any and all emails/FB messages that she wanted to and if I ever met with them I always tried to get my wife to join us and never put myself in a spot where we would be alone that wasn't a public place (and no bars) and always tried to include husbands. Mind you I didn't go galavanting around too much either, I had maybe gone out about twice a month if that.
> 
> so as we near my wife's affair I can say that looking back we had problems that weren't being addressed. But I was complacent back then, I didn't think we had anything too earth shattering to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know now that complacency is your enemy


Have you ever considered writing a book?


----------



## Almostrecovered

thanks for the compliment 

before dropping out I was an English major and I have always enjoyed writing, prior to the affair I blogged regularly but stopped since I knew that all that would come pouring out of my blog would be crap about the affair


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> thanks for the compliment
> 
> before dropping out I was an English major and I have always enjoyed writing, prior to the affair I blogged regularly but stopped since I knew that all that would come pouring out of my blog would be crap about the affair


You're welcome.  You are a good writer for sure. This "book" is definitely hard to "put down". But I have no choice, because it's not finished. :rofl:


----------



## Almostrecovered

sorry for the spurts, I do have to work and doing this at home isnt an option as Id rather be playing with the kids, having sex with the wife or enjoying time with family.


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> sorry for the spurts, I do have to work and doing this at home isnt an option as Id rather be playing with the kids, having sex with the wife or enjoying time with family.


Oh no, don't be sorry at all. We completely understand. We'll all just go pop our popcorn and wait patiently for the next chapter.


----------



## better than before

I can't stop reading either  I think all our marriages got put to the side over the years; so good to reconnect with the one you love!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hijo

Thank you so much for writing. It is giving me the courage to consider telling my own tale of woe.

Fortunately, it appears your tale has a happy ending. Unfortunately, I don't know about mine yet.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 3- 

A-storms a-comin'

Since I always had the luxury of friends to talk to and do things with and my wife really hadn't, for years I always encouraged her to go out and have a break from the kids. Through our passive aggressive delivery system of sarcasm, I knew that she was jealous of my more forward approach socially and the ability to get out and about. Thus I encouraged her constantly, "Why don't you call up so and so and go have coffee for a bit?" But she never could muster up the nerve to do it. Her reasoning was that if people wanted to hang out with her they would call and since no one ever does this then why should she. (typical shy/lower self esteem think)

Thus when she started to talk about a group of people who she started having fun with during her dinner break (or whatever you call eating at 2am) I felt happy for her. As I stated before, she never felt "included" in her previous job so this was a good change for her I thought.

She shared with me the personalities of these people as they were a mix of hospital workers, techs, and security guards (both male and female). She talked about their gossip, they way they joked, etc and nothing seemed inappropriate. Sometimes they would as a group go out after work and get breakfast. She was always enthusiastic about talking about her new friends, so being the good and supportive husband I expressed happiness for her.

Over these months my wife started to lose weight. While she was never very fat and was always very attractive to me after the baby, she did start to look better than she ever had before. Due to her MS, she also had other neurologically related disorders including migraines and fibromyalgia so she was taking medicines like Topamax that also contributed to appetite suppression. Unfortunately for me, I was the heaviest I had ever been. After quitting smoking I gained 35 lbs and never took it off and I gained even more through poor habits and too much ice cream. 

Despite my weight gain, the other change I noticed during this time period was that my wife was really starting to come around sexually. She became bolder in initiating and expressed the willingness to try new positions, clothes/undies, watching porn with me and uh.... new orifices. I figured since she just turned 33 that she was hitting her sexual peak, so I was not going to complain about this in the slightest bit. It was enjoyable yet at times I felt as though I couldn't keep up with her desire and started to fear my performance levels weren't up to snuff. 

August comes and I notice that she was starting to talk about how cool a certain male member of the group was. His sense of humor was similar to mine, he liked to cook like me and my wife (a foodie), he was expecting a baby in September and she was excited for him, and he owned a humidor and knew all sorts of things about cigars. Despite being a smoker for most of my life (I was quit at this point), I never enjoyed the heavy flavor of cigars but my wife would on rare occasions enjoy smoking one. Thus it was something he could talk to her about that I couldn't. I started to feel a twinge of jealousy as his name kept popping up. She became facebook friends with him and started to interact with him more on the same stupid games I was playing like Mafia Wars. Note, that in my usual passive aggressive manner, after seeing his picture and noticing that he sure did look a lot like me, I made joke to my wife that she was a chubby chaser.

At the end of August, my wife asked if I would mind if she and a group of friends went over to his house after work to try some of his premium cigars. I started to feel really jealous at this but held my tongue as I felt that if I was going to go out with friends then she could and I shouldn't be controlling. It was with a group, the guy was having a baby any day now and thus I shouldn't worry. I felt I was being silly for feeling jealous and dismissed it. I guess my gut was screaming at me and it was well founded. 

The day she went over to his house was August 31, 2009.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 4- 

The affair and D-day

That morning before she went to bed she called and told me that it was fun and that everyone had a good time. During the next 2 weeks, I heard hardly any mention of Mr. Cigar guy and felt relieved and started to get comfortable that my jealousy was for naught and patted myself on the back for doing the right thing by allowing myself to trust her in that situation.

I believe it was a Wednesday when I was at work one afternoon and our son's teachers knew to call me instead of my wife for any issues since she slept during the day. The teacher called and was asking me what dates were best for my son's next IEP meeting (he has ADD). I told her that I thought my wife emailed her (as she told me she did) and I would check with her and get back to her the next morning. I went into my wife's email to see if the date was discussed in any emails with the teacher. I saw nothing in the inbox so I looked at the outbox. That's when I saw a few emails from my wife to Mr Cigar Guy.



My wife isn't the most tech savvy person in the world and it was obvious that she didn't realize that she needed to delete outbox emails if she wanted to hide something from me. (she clearly deleted inbox emails that corresponded) These emails had clearly shown that he was coming over to my house 2-3 times a week the past 2 weeks. While nothing overtly sexual was being said, there was certainly a flirty playfulness to them as they called their meetings "appointments".

At this point I could feel my face flush with blood, my heart started pounding so much you could see my shirt pulsate, my mind raced the same way as it does when I get manic and all I wanted to do was to react. I lost control of all logic and all I wanted to was get home. 

I printed out the emails, and then ran out the door, shouting to my brother as I left "I have a personal emergency, I can't tell you why but I have to get home!!" I rushed home in a tizzy, the drive usually takes 25 minutes but it only took 17 minutes and I'm shocked to this day I didn't get pulled over for doing 70 in a 35mph zone.


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> Part 4-
> 
> The affair and D-day
> 
> That morning before she went to bed she called and told me that it was fun and that everyone had a good time. During the next 2 weeks, I heard hardly any mention of Mr. Cigar guy and felt relieved and started to get comfortable that my jealousy was for naught and patted myself on the back for doing the right thing by allowing myself to trust her in that situation.
> 
> I believe it was a Wednesday when I was at work one afternoon and our son's teachers knew to call me instead of my wife for any issues since she slept during the day. The teacher called and was asking me what dates were best for my son's next IEP meeting (he has ADD). I told her that I thought my wife emailed her (as she told me she did) and I would check with her and get back to her the next morning. I went into my wife's email to see if the date was discussed in any emails with the teacher. I saw nothing in the inbox so I looked at the outbox. That's when I saw a few emails from my wife to Mr Cigar Guy.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife isn't the most tech savvy person in the world and it was obvious that she didn't realize that she needed to delete outbox emails if she wanted to hide something from me. (she clearly deleted inbox emails that corresponded) These emails had clearly shown that he was coming over to my house 2-3 times a week the past 2 weeks. While nothing overtly sexual was being said, there was certainly a flirty playfulness to them as they called their meetings "appointments".
> 
> At this point I could feel my face flush with blood, my heart started pounding so much you could see my shirt pulsate, my mind raced the same way as it does when I get manic and all I wanted to do was to react. I lost control of all logic and all I wanted to was get home.
> 
> I printed out the emails, and then ran out the door, shouting to my brother as I left "I have a personal emergency, I can't tell you why but I have to get home!!" I rushed home in a tizzy, the drive usually takes 25 minutes but it only took 17 minutes and I'm shocked to this day I didn't get pulled over for doing 70 in a 35mph zone.


My god, this is a nail biter. I'm on the edge of my seat!!


----------



## Almostrecovered

As anyone who goes through trauma knows, often certain memories get burned into the brain despite the fact that we are so worked up at the time that we aren't thinking clearly. It's an odd occurrence that while the event is happening that our brain makes our senses so heightened that we take in so much of our surroundings yet often get frozen in action or just merely react instead of thinking. It's obviously a survival instinct when the flight or fight part of brains gets activated.

I stormed through the house and up the stairs to our bedroom. I can still remember the smell of the beef stew that was in the crock pot simmering in the kitchen. I can tell you that it was a nice sunny day of around 76 degrees. I can even tell you the fact that my wife was sleeping on my side of the bed when I came to confront. Why I remember such a weird and inconsequential detail is beyond me, but I can still picture what the scene was like in all aspects as I flipped the light switch on (we had room darkening shades for obvious reasons).

The dog laying on the bed at my wife's feet got startled and barked for about 3 seconds, waking her up before I had the chance-

Her (groggily) - What are you doing here so early?

Me- Could you please explain to me why the [email protected] you are having a man over to our place without me knowing about it?!!!

Her (woke up real fast here)- W-w-what do you mean?

Me- Guess you don't realize that you need to delete outgoing message, now answer me!!

At this point she got the old deer in the headlights look and there was silence for maybe 5 seconds.

Me- Well maybe when you have the answer, I will come home!!

I stormed out and shot off in my car, picked up some smokes and went straight to a nearby bar. My hands trembling so much I couldn't hardly light the first cigarette I had in 2 years.


----------



## useable

southern wife said:


> My god, this is a nail biter. I'm on the edge of my seat!!


me too


----------



## Almostrecovered

It was a truly weird scene at the bar, there were maybe 5-6 other guys and one middle aged woman sitting around the bar. Each one had at least a chair in between the next person as to not invade personal space. No one was talking to one another and everyone seemed to have had their faces buried in their drinks or phones. The bar was so quiet that only the TV's with ESPN highlights flickering made any noise. I didn't mind this at all as I was looking to do the same, yet I couldn't help but wonder if I would end up like these poor souls. Always sitting in a bar in the middle of the afternoon alone yet surrounded by others.

I ordered a beer and despite it being really frosty cold, I managed to hork that sucker down in 3 gulps. I nursed the next one in maybe twice the amount of gulps. This time in between gulps I was pausing to think that I was now "one of those guys who got cheated on" or "a loser divorcee who watches his love of his life get everything she wants while I die lonely." Just as the 3rd beer arrived in 10 minutes time since arriving, my phone rang in a silly ring tone that was assigned so I'd know it was my wife calling.


----------



## Almostrecovered

okay guys, sorry to say I will likely take a break until Tuesday (unless I get some time in the morning tomorrow)

obviously, you can see how much I was doing wrong at this point but I can promise I eventually wised up 

have a great weekend folks


----------



## useable

Almostrecovered said:


> okay guys, sorry to say I will likely take a break until Tuesday (unless I get some time in the morning tomorrow)
> 
> obviously, you can see how much I was doing wrong at this point but I can promise I eventually wised up
> 
> have a great weekend folks


so you just want us to be curious of your story. well you got it.
but i do not like the half made job.


----------



## southern wife

useable said:


> so you just want us to be curious of your story. well you got it.
> but i do not like the half made job.


:lol::lol::lol:

I think he's writing this as he's working, so he'll get back to us when he can. And we'll be here for him with much shorter fingernails.


----------



## Almostrecovered

imagine the detail if I wasnt multitasking


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> okay guys, sorry to say I will likely take a break until Tuesday (unless I get some time in the morning tomorrow)
> 
> obviously, you can see how much I was doing wrong at this point but I can promise I eventually wised up
> 
> have a great weekend folks


You enjoy your weekend as well. I won't be back on here until Tuesday as well. 

But as a side note: It is odd the things we do recall in such situations...


----------



## useable

Almostrecovered said:


> imagine the detail if I wasnt multitasking


ok buddy, enjoy your weekend. God Bless you and family.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I answered the phone in a monotone fashion as if I didn't know who it was.

"Can you come home please?"

I replied "give me 10 minutes"

I took a sip of the beer and left it unfinished and headed home, this time I drove slower than usual, not wanting to hear the "truth"- that I was a failure and my wife would leave me for another man. (just to show what sort of toxic thinking one goes through during this period)

The kids had already arrived home from school when I entered the house, they ran to give me their usual hello hugs and expressed surprise at how early I was home. My wife then told them to go into the other room to do their homework. They complied after a few whiny protestations. My wife then approached me with a softness and totally unexpected look of sadness rather than what I had expected prior. As she touched my cheek she frowned and said, "Oh no, you've been smoking, haven't you?"

I nodded trying to look impatient as I wanted answers.

She then went on to explain that she didn't tell me that he was coming over because I had previously exhibited jealousy and didn't wish to get me worked up over nothing and that they were just good friends- especially considering what I had gone through with my parents. (side note- the fact that she used one of the most painful time periods in my life to lie still haunts me to this day)

The last time I had cried wasn't even at my mother's funeral. (putting aside shedding a tear of joy or two for the kids' births and my wedding) It was actually 2 weeks prior to her death, she was sitting on the den sofa and I decided to sit next to her and watch the OJ trial coverage together. I reached over and held her hand. The hand felt like a skeleton and was bony. Mom was always plump but now was skinny except for her distended belly due to her liver being over thrice its normal size. Her breathing labored and you can see that she was in general discomfort. A wave of emotion hit me as I knew that the end was near. I excused myself and walked to the next room where I just lost it. The warm tears streaming down my face, my stomach clenching as I tried to muffle my howls of grief so she wouldn't hear them. I couldn't hold back.

Over 14 years later I found myself having the same involuntary reaction as I buried my sobbing face into my wife's shoulder. "I thought I was going to lose you", I cried.


----------



## Almostrecovered

After regaining my composure I tried my best to "scold" her and informed her that she can longer lie about this stuff. That I was uncomfortable about him being alone in the house with her and that would stop and she would have to tell me what's going when she sees him or others as it's only right that married people know where their spouses are and what they are doing. She didn't fight with it and apologized some more and agreed that she would do as such. he also let me know that it was likely that she won't see much of him any more soon since his baby was due that week and would be attending to his wife and family more instead of going out. I felt relieved.

However, the momentary sense of relief didn't last long. My wife was right in one thing- I had gone through this before by proxy with my mother. I knew that someone who I looked up to and trusted could lie and betray you. I knew that she could be lying to me and that I had to find out. I wouldn't bury my head in the sand like my mother, it was time to learn from her mistakes.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 5- 

My second wind and second d-day


I knew nothing of infidelity support boards, VARs, keyloggers and such. Looking back, I am somewhat shocked that I didn't think to google these things right away. But I still possessed the wherewithal to figure out to uncover some answers I needed. I started by signing up online for the cell phone account. Until then we had received paper bills (and phone was in my name btw) and I knew I would be a month behind in phone records had I relied on that. I also have VOIP for our landline and checking phone records would be easy. I soon identified his numbers (both home and cell) saw that her calls to him and vice-a-versa were aplenty. It really irked me that she was obviously losing sleep to talk to him and be with him when we hardly had time for each other. I also checked her facebook account (I had her password) and gained as much info as I could on the OM. There were no messages between them in the mail system. (facebook didn't save chat at this time) Of course I monitored the email but they stopped using it for obvious reasons.


----------



## Almostrecovered

okay, wife is up after sleeping late - will continue tomorrow


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> okay, wife is up after sleeping late - will continue tomorrow


Patiently waiting.....but I have to ask: Are you going through the emotions all over again as you write this?


----------



## Almostrecovered

not really, I am definitely detached a good deal by this point, almost as if I saw it in a movie


we even talked about it last night- I asked her if she was aware what date range we are in right now and she answered that she was thinking about it and how much regret she has over it. I then told her that this year didn't sting so much and that we should use this time period to for a martial check up of sorts and we then had a half hour convo on what was good and what we could tweak, etc


----------



## sigma1299

Almostrecovered said:


> not really, I am definitely detached a good deal by this point, almost as if I saw it in a movie
> 
> 
> we even talked about it last night- I asked her if she was aware what date range we are in right now and she answered that she was thinking about it and how much regret she has over it. I then told her that this year didn't sting so much and that we should use this time period to for a martial check up of sorts and we then had a half hour convo on what was good and what we could tweak, etc


Awesome that the two of you are still using such a bad thing to improve your marriage!!


----------



## Almostrecovered

The best part was when I asked if she still finds our sex life satisfying, she grinned wide and said "oh yeah!"


----------



## sigma1299

Almostrecovered said:


> The best part was when I asked if she still finds our sex life satisfying, she grinned wide and said "oh yeah!"


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## Almostrecovered

One of the first things I noticed by perusing the cell phone records that night was that she placed a call to him on her drive into work the previous night (when I confronted her). This to me looked very suspicious, as if she couldn't even wait to get to work to let him know that I was onto them. That night I was dumb enough to confront again, this time I was a bit more sneaky at least.

Me- "So, any more time with OM (real name used of course)?"

her- "Nope"

me- "You been calling him a lot?"

her- "No, not really, in fact I haven't even spoken to him except dinner break."

"Oh really? Well, I know you're lying to me yet again now. I have phone records that you placed a call to him on your way to work last night. I really can't take this lying anymore and it has to stop! WTF is going on here, just be honest and tell me if you're having an affair so we can move on."

I was sitting in my "Archie Bunker" chair at the time. (the chair I would always sit in, my wife would sit on the couch usually with a table in between us, it was like that scene in Citizen Kane where Orson Wells and his wife get further apart at the dining room table) She came over to me and straddled me with her knees on both side of my thighs. She grabbed my cheeks with her hands to get me to look straight into her eyes. This moment is another one that is burned into my brain.

"I am sorry, I forgot about that call, I was just inviting him to our Octoberfest party. I promise you that I am not having an affair and I love you too much to do that to you."

She was so convincing, I felt like a fool for questioning her. I really wanted to believe her and thus I did for that moment.

We then had sex on the chair (the kids were already in bed) in the same position as she told me that lie.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Post coitus I did the last dumb thing in regards to uncovering her affair. (well really dumb that is) -I apologized for snooping and promised I would stop and trust her

not only did I apologize, I actually pulled out the VAR that I purchased earlier that day from Staples and said I was ashamed I was going to use it.

I was truly in a state of denial and she worked it to her advantage.

I went off to bed, she said she would be up in a few minutes as she had to finish something up for school. (I learned two days later she was having a facebook chat with him about how they just dodged a bullet.)

Fortunately for me my mistake wouldn't matter for long.

The next day at work in the morning I just got off the phone with the wife as she said she had to get to her physical therapy appointment. So, after hanging up I went to log onto facebook to see what stupid new gifts there were in Mafia Wars. I had forgotten that I still was logged in as my wife (since i had been checking out OM the day before).

And there it was

Back then, facebook had a glitch.
and what it wonderful glitch it was for me!!

You could log into the same account from another computer at the same time. And if one user was having a chat- you could witness it live.

There it was- the two of them chatting and it was obvious she was chatting while she was talking with me-

Her-Okay, I'm off the phone now

Him- What time are you back from your PT appt?

Her- 10am, I only have 2 more appointments but I'll tell Almostrecovered that I have 6 more left so we can keep up the charade

Him- 

Her: With AR getting edgy I think we should just watch a movie or something since he still could be hiding that recorder.

Him: Yeah, my wife seems to be on edge as well, could just be pregnancy nerves. 

Her- gotta go

him: okay on movie, maybe just a quickie instead
him: bye

at that point the chat went blank as she must've deleted the record.


I lost it
I was back to reacting again
but this time I had the smoking gun

I called home- no answer
I called her cell- she answered almost angrily-

Her- "What?! Why are you calling the home line, I told you I am on my way to PT?! I'm trying to get out the door, I am late!"

me- "Wow, you are something! You sat there and looked me straight in the eye and lied! So you only have 2 more appointments, eh?"

There was some silence and when she answered her tone turned snide as if she was proud

her- "yeah well"

What I said next I can't recall, but I started on a tirade until I heard the phone click.

I thought to myself, "That f***ing ***** just hung up on me!"

After 2 failed attempts at reaching her (I thought she turned her phone off as voice mail picked up on one ring) I immediately went to the number I had written down and called the OM.


----------



## Rob774

Okay at this point... what has she admitted to???

An EA, or does she describe whats gone on just as a big misunderstanding by you???

Because to me, while she might not be having a full blown affair (EA or PA), what she has done is raise some HUGE Red Flags. NO man comes into my house when i'm not there that i don't know about. Its as simple as that, because i'm going to assume the worst happened...

Especially when you are texting this person all the time. Especially when you all of a sudden are into losing weight, especially if you are into new tricky stuff in the bedroom.There are usually are you tell-tale signs of a PA. I'm not saying she is definately having one, but to me, its more on her to prove she isn't than me to prove she is. I know you want this to work out, but don't let your guard down. Don't let all this great s3x overwhelm you, because even this... is a sign of something going on.


----------



## Almostrecovered

uhhhh...this is a recap of what happened 2 years ago

she did have a PA


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> uhhhh...this is a recap of what happened 2 years ago


If I get any closer to the edge of my seat, I'm going to be on the floor!  You're doing a great job and I love how you remembered things in such detail. :smthumbup:


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Frankly, I'm stunned that there will be something close to a happy ending to this saga.

You're a strong cat, AR. Best to you.


----------



## Almostrecovered

After the OM answered the phone, I didn't take the time to introduce myself. I felt that my demand would be more than sufficient to let him know who I was.


"You have 24 hours to tell your wife"

(cue the Jack Bauer clock)

Him- "Dude, you're overreacting- we're just friends!"

Me- "Hard to overreact to a quickie, eh?"

Him- "C,mon, that was just a joke!"

Me- "I'm done talking with you, I have more evidence than that- you have 24 hours."

and I hung up

It was the one and only time I ever spoke to the man. To this day I've never met him physically, I'm not sure what I would do if I did.


After hanging up I went to into my brother's office and told him the short version of what had happened and told him I'm not sure what I'm going to do but to keep it quiet for now. This time when I left work I wasn't rushing out of there.

In fact, this time on my drive home, I started to feel a calmness wash over me. Sure, I was jittery to an extent but I started to think clearer. I knew what had to be done. The path ahead of me was certain and there's something to be said for certainty, even if it's not a good thing. This time I knew I would NOT be my mother, I would NOT allow my wife to walk all over me anymore like my father had done to my mother 20 years prior. 

I knew in my mind what needed to be done and the only road that lay before me- I was going to get a divorce.


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> (cue the Jack Bauer clock)


:smthumbup: :smthumbup: :whip:


----------



## Almostrecovered

On the way home I stopped at the physical therapy clinic to verify that she did indeed go there. I saw her car in the parking lot. There was maybe 10 minutes left in her session so I knew if she didn't arrive home in 15-20 minutes then I knew where she would have gone. Had she chose to do that, I would have hit the buzzer on OM's timer and called the OMW at her work, which I had the info for after my diligent research gathering from the day prior.

Instead, I got home, greeted the dogs and went to the computer desk and sat in the swivel chair. I started to google info on my state's divorce laws. 5 minutes passed and she walked in the door.

As she came in I turned in my swivel chair to meet her, if only I had a cat in my lap to stroke. (I even had just shaved my head recently)









Before I even had the chance to say anything, she immediately started prattling on about how her phone battery died and she did not hang up on me. She even showed that the phone was dead and hooked it up to the charger as she spoke. It might have been the first ounce of truth I had received from her in 17 days.

Me-"That doesn't matter, we should calmly discuss how we are going to proceed with a divorce. I am willing to have an amicable split to spare the children more grief than they will already experience from all of this."

Tears welled up in her eyes as she initially tried to shift blame. "I know having an affair was wrong BUT..." and she yelled that I was inattentive for years and how she tried to make things works, blah blah blah...."AND YOU PROMISED YOU'D STOP SNOOPING!"

My face made a wrinkled incredulous look as I said in a sarcastic tone, "Do you really want to go there?"

Her body slumped, and then she grabbed my cigarettes off of the table and walked to the back door as she muttered, "Yeah, you're right"

I sat in the chair stewing for what seemed like 10 minutes (it was maybe 2?) and went outside to get my own smoke. I wasn't going to let her take control of this conversation.

She was sitting on the back porch steps that led to the patio, her head was buried in her hands as one hand held her cigarette. The cigarette had a long cylinder of ash barely hanging on that indicated that she wasn't even paying attention to it. She was sobbing uncontrollably like I had just done two days prior. She heard me light up my own smoke and cried, "I dont want a divorce!"

"I'll do anything!"


----------



## it-guy

This is great. Inspired to tell my own story from start to finish one day. Good idea to wait a couple of years to do so. Heck I'm not even sure yet if my story is really over. I'm sure the affair is, but the aftermath takes a while to sort out..... I want a happy ending to my story


----------



## Almostrecovered

"I'll do anything"

If anything was going to surprise me it was these three words

I was expecting a fight, more denials, or more blaming.

Not that I believed her when she said it at first, But this clearly wasn't my father talking. This was another person. My father never said such things and was difficult through the whole affair mess. I was confused and taken aback.

Me- "I honestly don't know if I can ever forgive you and continue in this marriage, but if you're serious and you really mean 'anything' then let's start with the truth."

Over the course of probably 8 chained smoked cigarettes she told me of the affair. That it started when she went to his house and was surprised that no one else ended up coming over but her. (bastard planned it that way and had his buddies say they were coming over but not go) They were having fun and he leaned into kiss her and she didn't stop him and they had oral sex.

At this point I warned her that she's not Bill Clinton and BJ's do count. I also reminded her of the fact of how very good I am at finding things out and if she is just saying that she had oral sex to soften the blow when in fact she did more then she'd better pony up now. 

She continued and said that they met at our house from that point on maybe 6 times over the course of the 17 day affair. She said he never brought condoms so they never had intercourse, although she admitted she would have. The sex had always taken place on the living room couch and the bed was never used. (that couch has since been donated to charity) 

The thing that struck me as odd was how she described the affair as "just sex". It was almost as if it was a man talking. She even brought up the fact how I joked that the fact that she never had been intimate with anyone other than me that she would have an affair sometime. (see page 1, talk about having ESP!) She also said that "her plan" was to stop when his baby was born. Today I've gotten her to admit now that if it continued without me uncovering it that "her plan" surely wouldn't have seen its end and she would have still continued to cheat and she would have developed more of an emotional attachment.

After the truth finally came out (and more details eventually emerged later but nothing was proven to be wrong from her initial statement), I said, "You're going to call OM right now, you're going to put him on speaker phone, you're going to tell him that he is never to talk to you again and that I will tell his wife if he doesn't."

She did it without blinking. Hearing the fear in his voice was nice to say the least. He even asked if I was there as I'm guessing he wanted to say something else if I wasn't.

After the call, I told my wife that IF she expects me to consider reconciliation that she has to allow me to snoop to my heart's content and she can't say a word about it. I told her that her privacy is now null and void. And that she needed to always tell where she is going what she is doing, etc etc. 

She needed to get to sleep as she had a shift that night, she swallowed some pills and went off to bed. I sat there with a buzz in my brain wondering if I could do this. The thing that worried me the most was that OM worked at the same place and I had no way of verifying if they were to have any contact. I didn't know whether to demand that she quit prematurely (she would graduate in 3 months) and suffer financial problems or just bite the bullet. 


Looking back and knowing what I know now, I really do have to pat myself on the back a bit here. Once I finally got the nerve to do what I needed to do, I did indeed do a lot of things right. I had no self-help books, I wasn't reading message boards at the time, yet in the span of 1 hour I managed to do the following intuitively:

1) Confront with the threat of divorce and not having it be an empty threat. While this wasn't intended, it was the crucial difference between me and my mom, my mother begged and pleaded and got shat on again and again. I was able break her out of the fog by showing that her that her actions had very real consequences.
2) Got a no contact agreement. While I didn't do a letter or anything like that I made it very clear that they were'nt to be friends or even talk to one another again and if she did then I would leave. (more on this later regarding her work and the one attempt she made)
3) Got complete transparency. I also made sure she wasn't going to try to make me feel bad for verifying.
4) Had her answer any question I asked and had her answer them repeatedly. To me this showed me that she had true remorse. It took a while obviously (more later), but by doing this I was able to not rug sweep.

Which isn't to say I didn't make mistakes either....


next..Part 6 The road to reconciliation


----------



## Almostrecovered

it-guy said:


> I want a happy ending to my story



I have learned that there are things that we can't control. It's how we control ourselves in these situations that give us a happy ending or not. In all honesty, my wife could not have been a willing partner in R. Had that been the case I'm positive I still would have had a happy ending, I just would have done things differently.


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> ."
> 
> next..Part 6 The road to reconciliation


Now I'm on the floor; I fell off my seat!


----------



## useable

not a good stories, the ending is cliche. work on the marriage when cs remorseful and want to work on things.

you do not have brave to left the cheating spouse.. awful


----------



## it-guy

useable, are you reading the same threads that you post on?


----------



## Almostrecovered

useable said:


> not a good stories, the ending is cliche. work on the marriage when cs remorseful and want to work on things.
> 
> you do not have brave to left the cheating spouse.. awful



for starters I haven't come close to finishing this and you have no idea where this went. 

secondly, this is what happened, it's not like I can go back and fix anything. I admit to lots of mistakes on the way but ultimately I was able to come out of this a happier man. I also realize that I was fortunate enough to have someone who was actually willing to work on the marriage and do the right things. Had she not, I would be divorced right now. 

thirdly, I am not a fan of your posts in other threads for the most part. You are a very judgmental person and tend to project your own strong feelings onto others. I fully realize that some people can't get over infidelity, I also fully realize that some people let themselves get walked all over by infidelity and choose to bury their heads in the sand or rug sweep. However, what you fail to realize is that some people are capable of recovering from infidelity with certain factors involved.


----------



## Craggy456

useable said:


> not a good stories, the ending is cliche. work on the marriage when cs remorseful and want to work on things.
> 
> you do not have brave to left the cheating spouse.. awful


Is this even english?


----------



## southern wife

Craggy456 said:


> Is this even english?


:lol:


----------



## useable

ok almost

just go on, i will not post anymore. mods can delete all my post in here.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 6

To R or not to R? that is the question
D-day 2 to 2 weeks


As vivid as my memories were of D-day, my recollection of the 2 weeks that followed are a big blur. Aside from the huge stress ball of infidelity and deciding whether or not to attempt reconciliation life just had to throw in some more problems to complicate things.

My company was involved in a BS product liability suit and we were screwed from the get-go. The plaintiff was an all American girl who was already blind in one eye and the injury caused damage to her other eye. The weird thing is that they didn't even have the "defective" product for evidence in their law suit. (they threw it out) Add the fact that we have no way of proving if she had even used the product correctly. Yet just days after d-day I had to be deposed for 9 hours. Their scumbag money grubbing lawyer grilled me for hours and twisted my words and put me through a really grueling session. I sometimes wonder which was worse, going through the infidelity discovery or having to deal with Mr. Asshat Lawyer.

THEN add in the fact that auto-immune disorders tend to get bad during times of stress. So my wife ended up with tingling hands and a new lesion on her spine. She was put on a steroid drip for 5 days. The steroids didn't help her mood much as it made her very edgy, as if she wasn't edgy enough already.

During that time period, I just remember spending a lot of hours on the back porch steps with my wife talking and smoking, our hands always shaking. We talked about lots of things, my parents' affair, her affair, whether or not I would stay with her, problems that led up to the affair, etc etc. At least I was dropping weight in record time. I know it's not the way you should lose weight but I lost close to 22 lbs during those 2 weeks. I eventually used the stress to kick start a diet and keep losing weight on purpose and lost over 50lbs in 7 months.

The subject of marriage counseling kept coming up. My wife was bringing it up more so than me. For starters I wasn't even sure if I wanted to work things out. I left my wife in a limbo of sorts for 2 weeks. I never quite made the commitment to stay or go and hung it over her head, all the while making her do the things for proper R. (it was the least I could do-LOL) My hesitation on MC was also predicated by the fact that I had been dealing with therapists for over 20 years. I knew that shopping for one was a pain in the ass, insurance only covers so many sessions, and having been to countless therapy session with 10 different shrinks, I was aware of how they operate and felt that the service could have been done by ourselves with setting some ground rules during our talks. (more on this later)

My poor kids during this time were being neglected by the both of us to an extent. Well, at least, they were being fed, clothed and made sure they did homework, but we certainly didn't give them the attention they needed. Thankfully, they were at an age that they didn't require constant monitoring.

The one big regret other than the kids that I have at this time period was not requiring that my wife quit her job. I became a super sleuth during those two weeks and was able to monitor everything from computers to phones to the house to her car. The one thing I had no access to was her work. Which was even dumber when you consider that she was only going to be there for 3 more months. I did, however, get OM's schedule and would actually have my wife call me at 2 am on those nights and have her talk to me during her dinner break (she now stayed in the break room instead of the cafeteria and brought her food). I lost sleep, yes, but gained peace of mind.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Though I wasn't aware of it at the time, I was in full hyperbonding mode with the wife. Even with all of the nerves, stress, depression and lack of sleep, we were having sex more than we ever did, even during our courtship. I even found her g-spot a week after d-day (she didn't ask me to, I was just experimenting during oral) and was giving her mind-bowing multiple orgasms. The one thing that made me feel weird was when she would go to give me a BJ as I knew that was "their" thing. I would often stop her and move onto something else as a result. (I've since gotten over this). I know there's a split camp on whether this was a good thing for us, but at least it was fun and pleasuring each other certainly helped the healing process in my opinion. The main caveat being was that I felt pressure to perform. In some ways I attaching my sexual prowess with "keeping her". Thus on the occasions that I either came too soon or was too tired to have sex I felt nervous and jittery about it.

The last thing about this period was that I was conflicted about telling the OMW. I didn't discuss with the wife what I wanted to do but decided that since the poor woman was due to give birth in a week, it might be best to not say anything in case the shock or stress would complicate her delivery and harm the baby's health. I had no idea if OM said anything to his wife that night of D-day and my threats. My wife claimed she didn't know either since she was purposely avoiding him and no one at work mentioned anything. (she only heard about when the baby was born and he was off a few days as a result so we figured he didn't say anything)
Instead of exposure I hoped the threat of exposure would work to keeping OM away from my wife. This would eat away at me, however and I will get to what happened in the next part.

As the 2 week period ended I finally told my wife that "I'd give the marriage a shot". I reiterated the ground rules about her affair (NC, transparency, etc) and then added that we would try the following instead of MC-

Spend 30 minutes a day of just us talking alone.
We would talk calmly
It would be a blame free zone, when someone expresses something we would not argue with those feelings but rather listen and react with our own feelings
We could not get defensive and rather try to understand the other's point of view of why they are upset
We would offer constructive solutions to the problems brought forth
Most importantly we would NOT hold any truth back- even if that meant it would hurt the other

I said if we couldn't pull this off, then we would give MC a shot

Her "Does this mean you forgive me?"

Me- "Not yet, I need you to forgive yourself first"


which brings us to the next part...


(continued tomorrow- very busy day at work)


----------



## it-guy

Still looking forward to this


----------



## southern wife

it-guy said:


> Still looking forward to this


Me too!


----------



## Almostrecovered

sorry guys, had a big obstacle at work to get thru


----------



## loveiswhereiamnot

I hope more people do this, it's really compelling, honest writing.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Many thanks for the compliments


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 7-

The fight, the mulligan, plotting revenge and telling OMW
2 weeks to 5 weeks post Dday


In this time period both of our fogs started to lift. Before us lay a mountain of rocks and these rocks required lots of heavy lifting. To my wife's credit, she did a lot of it. 

After 2-3 days of trying our own little MC sessions, she started to open up about everything, and so did I. It's not an easy thing to do, to open yourself up like that after suppressing feelings for so many years. Aside from learning more details of the affair, we delved into the reasons why. I learned some details that to this day I kinda wish I didn't know, but nonetheless I felt if we were to get past it the truth needed to be known. 

As a side note here, I learned that OM had an interesting sexual desire that certainly made it easy to belittle him in my eyes. He told my wife that a "friend" mentioned that a male can have an intense orgasm by being penetrated by a dildo in his ass. My wife wasn't necessarily turned on by this but didn't say much about it, thus OM continued to bring it up and even mentioned that he a strap on which he might bring one day. (they never did) As much as I am the type of guy who believes people have the right to their own sexual proclivities and fantasies as long as it doesn't involve rape or children, I couldn't help but laugh at his attempts. And anytime you can feel superior to OM is a good thing because my confidence was shot.

One of the things that kept popping up in our discussions was whether or not to tell friends and family. Of course the wife was felling shame and regret and was truly afraid of exposure. Me, I wanted an outlet to at least one or two people to talk things over as I was more social. Up til this point, my brother was the only person outside me, my wife, and OM who knew. (if you recall I told him the short story of what was happening to get out of work) As much as I love my brother, he and I are opposites in many ways. He never married or ever had a long term girl friend and was very private. I didn't think he was capable of providing me the emotional support I needed as much as he would have wanted to provide it.

We decided that telling family and everyone would probably be a mistake as too many people will judge. (mind you, had she not stopped the affair I would have exposed to everyone in a heartbeat) But I did press on the issue and we agreed that not only would I talk to a very close friend, she would also confess to one of her sisters and talk. I'm glad I pushed for this as her sister was able to provide perspective and actually help us in finding forgiveness without looking to sweep it under a rug like some people would look to do. My friend also was very helpful to me and helped me recognize that the affair wasn't my fault, and while yes I could work on improving the marriage, I shouldn't take any blame for the affair itself.


While we certainly were starting to make great strides to reconciliation, healing and recovery during this period, we also had our biggest fall backs during this time period. 

Looking back, I now view recovery from trauma as non-linear. In other words, imagine one of those line graphs that looks like a mountain range. 








The graph has lots of ups and downs but the general trend is one that eventually reaches its peak.
Recovery for me was like that. We would have some great days and then hit a bad day but would eventually keep trudging along and things improved.


----------



## Almostrecovered

We both were also feeling PTSD and the nerves and depression were starting to affect me in my daily life. I was worried I might soon swing into a manic phase and thus went to see my GP to have him proscribe some medication. At the doctor's appoint I was amazed at how much weight I was losing and we ended up having a 45 minute appointment. (guess I made the other patients wait for their sniffles) He gave me a new drug for my depression/bipolar disorder (Abilify) and some Ativan for the anxiety. He scheduled me for STD testing and told me my wife should also come in. (she was also his patient) 

I told my wife that I made an appointment for her to not only get some anti-depressants/anxiety pills herself but also for STD testing.

We then had our first fight since d-day

Instead of the calm manner in which we were discussing issues, she got emotional and got angry that I would even imply that STD testing was needed. 

Her-"It was only oral to begin with and OM has only been with his wife in the past 10 years."

Me (sarcastically)- "well forgive me if I don't trust OM, and neither should you"

After a heated exchange, she grudgingly agreed to get tested but the fight got refueled when she complained that she will forever be put in spots like this where she will be the bad guy.

Me-"Stop the self-pity, you aren't the bad guy, but you certainly did a bad thing. It's time to atone for it"


----------



## Almostrecovered

will continue later folks


----------



## Almostrecovered

To make things worse, she had a previous engagement to attend that night with her work friends. (she said OM would not be attending) They were to go to a bar in honor of a coworker who had passed 3 months prior to cancer (it was his favorite hangout). Since this coworker was not in the same department as the OM and didn't hang out at dinner break I was fairly confident that he wouldn't be there. Despite all of that, her going out so soon after d-day really triggered me and I got angrier at her during the fight over the std testing and said a bunch of nasty things. (probably the first time I had let my anger come out in full force.)

She stormed out to go to the bar and I stewed at home with the kids and got impatient as to when she would get back home. I called her cell in a stern tone telling her that her time there is done and to come home. Of course, she flipped out and we had a fight that ended in her hanging up. At that point I was really questioning whether reconciliation and accepting her back was truly worth the work.
She came back home in about an hour from hanging up and tried apologizing before even coming into the room. I cut her off and said, "I don't want you to answer this right away and really think about your answer- Do you want to stay married because you truly love me or because you're afraid of being divorced?"

There was maybe a silent pause of 10 seconds.

It's cliche to say that time gets longer in such moments but it really did seem like the second hand was rusty and had to make a momentous effort to get to the next second.

Her eyes filled with tears, and she replied that while she was indeed of afraid of divorce and everything that comes with it that fact she truly loved me was the main motivation for staying. She then went on to how she keeps hurting me and perhaps that I would be better off without her. I wasn't certain if she was looking for pity again or she truly meant that, it turns out that she said it because of what she was about to tell me.

Her-"I think you should know, after I hung up on you, my friend went to the ladies room and left her phone behind. I took it and called OM."


----------



## it-guy

You sir.....are becoming an expert at cliffhangers...lol


----------



## it-guy

Its like commercials during american idol


----------



## Almostrecovered

it-guy said:


> You sir.....are becoming an expert at cliffhangers...lol



:allhail:


----------



## Almostrecovered

I tried to remain calm at her confession.

For starters if I was going to get the truth from her then yelling would likely result in her hiding things again. The reality is that the wind just got sucked out of my lungs and I was speechless.

Her-"He didn't answer, but I left a message saying where we were and perhaps he could join us."

Me- "and did he show up?"

Her- "not in the first 20 minutes, by that point I was scared that he would and left."

Me-"You realize that by trying to contact him is a deal breaker? I'm on the edge of giving up here and as much as I appreciate the honesty, it is only giving me reason to leave you."

Her (full blown cry by now)- "I know, I just have this overwhelming urge to have some closure with him."

Me- "Let me make this clear to you- if you continue to get _closure _with him, then you will most definitely be having _closure_ with me as well." (I kept emphasizing the word closure)

At this point I had no idea what to think-

the upside was that she was willing to tell me what she had done and in a weird sense was asking for help. I would have never known had she not told me.

the downside was that she still deep down was drawn to the OM

It was clear that I had to reiterate that it was him or me.

Me-"I just don't what to say, and you're tipsy so let's go to bed. You're going to have to prove to me that I'm the one who needs answers more right now."

The next morning she was up before me and as I came downstairs she had already typed up her letter of resignation to the hospital. 

This "offering" was probably the one thing that saved her. I told her that she would get this one mulligan (to this day I still can't believe I used that word) and anymore would result in getting a lawyer. That night I knew what I had to do, it was now 5 weeks past d-day and I knew the task before me was going to be a hard pill to swallow.

I had to contact the OMW


----------



## lordmayhem

Awesome story Almostrecovered! The classic affair, the male friend who she suddenly stopped talking about, the "Just Friends" line, etc. And like you, at the time, I also didn't know about keyloggers, VARs, etc, and I didn't even think about looking at forums like this for some odd reason. All I had was a buddy who had no experience in situations like this. 

Your initial confrontation went just like mine also, with me begging and crying. And you instinctively set about the correct conditions for R: NC letter, Full Transparency, Trust but Verify, etc. 

Can't wait to read more!


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> Awesome story Almostrecovered! The classic affair, the male friend who she suddenly stopped talking about, the "Just Friends" line, etc. And like you, at the time, I also didn't know about keyloggers, VARs, etc, and I didn't even think about looking at forums like this for some odd reason. All I had was a buddy who had no experience in situations like this.
> 
> Your initial confrontation went just like mine also, with me begging and crying. And you instinctively set about the correct conditions for R: NC letter, Full Transparency, Trust but Verify, etc.
> 
> Can't wait to read more!



The hard truth is that the majority of people end up flying blind in dealing with affairs. I guess that's why it's so damn frustrating on the boards that when you can actually offer your experience to help someone else and they still make the same damn mistakes. (and equally satisfying when you can actually help someone willing to listen like Sham for instance)


----------



## Almostrecovered

There was maybe one thing I did correctly in telling the OMW about her husband's affair- I didn't tell my wife I was going to do it.

Perhaps I was afraid that she would try to talk me out of it so I never gave her the chance. She expressed fear that she would come after her violently and didn't want a confrontation at all. The fear and shame were obviously still present and facing what she had done to this woman wasn't something she would like to do. I doubt she would have warned OM, but it was possible so I wasn't going to take any chances either. 

While I will always state on the board that the main reason to expose an affair to the SO of the OM/OW is for the basic reason that they have a right to know, I wanted to do as such badly for pure revenge motives. I wanted that f**ker to pay for his crimes badly. It ate away at me knowing he likely didn't tell his wife anything and would get away with it with no consequence. As much as I didn't want to hurt his wife, I felt she needed to know what kind of man she was married to and envisioned all sorts of nasty things being thrown at him as a result.

This would lead to my downfall, I was assuming too much.

I first contacted her on facebook as you are able to send messages to people who aren't friends. I gave a detailed account of what I knew and how I knew and this was also a mistake. I called the next day to verify that she received my message.

I was dumbfounded as to her reaction

In a rage she vociferously defended her husband and told me that my wife was crazy from her MS and using her husband as a tool to strengthen our marriage and to get me jealous. (I mean really, she believed my wife risked divorce with a machiavellian and convoluted plan?) I was so caught off guard by her reaction that I couldn't even think of the 20 things that shot holes in this excuse. My wife heard my raised voice at this point and knew what I was doing, she could gleam from the conversation that OMW didn't believe me and did what I never thought she'd ever do she spoke to the OMW-

She told her of his fetish of wanting to get f'd in the a with a dildo hoping she'd recognize it (unfortunately she never knew) so when she wasn't buying it she then described his penis and the birthmark on his pubis. 

The OMW hung up.


----------



## lordmayhem

I'm guessing here, but maybe it was because of this?



Almostrecovered said:


> After the OM answered the phone, I didn't take the time to introduce myself. I felt that my demand would be more than sufficient to let him know who I was.
> 
> 
> "You have 24 hours to tell your wife"
> 
> (cue the Jack Bauer clock)
> 
> Him- "Dude, you're overreacting- we're just friends!"
> 
> Me- "Hard to overreact to a quickie, eh?"
> 
> Him- "C,mon, that was just a joke!"
> 
> Me- "I'm done talking with you, I have more evidence than that- you have 24 hours."
> 
> and I hung up


Perhaps OM was able to spin the story to his betrayed wife, labeling you and your WW as crazy? That's what I've read often enough when the OM/OW are alerted to the BS exposing the affair to their own BS.


----------



## Almostrecovered

The next morning I took all of the evidence (phone records, emails, facebook messages, etc) and mailed it by registered mail to her work with a note about the call my wife made to her husband ending it and how I heard for myself on speakerphone how he was sorry for making a mess of things. (I wasn't the one lying in her eyes after all)

I never heard from her since the phone call

At this point I felt like I did all I could do with OMW, I gave her the info and what she chose to do with it was her business. I have no idea if she ever opened her eyes to the situation, at the time she was in full blown nesting mode with the new baby and likely wanted to believe her husband so badly she chose to ignore the obvious.

The good thing to come of this is that the hold OM had on my wife was gone in one fell swoop. The fresh tire tracks that say "Greyhound" left on her forehead had made her despise OM. I almost think she hates him more than I do at times. Also, the fact that my wife saw what was happening on the phone and refused to protect the affair went a long way in our recovery. From this point forward I can say that my wife has done everything asked and needed. Things started to get better.



tomorrow- part 8- 5 weeks to 6 months of post Dday


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> I'm guessing here, but maybe it was because of this?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps OM was able to spin the story to his betrayed wife, labeling you and your WW as crazy? That's what I've read often enough when the OM/OW are alerted to the BS exposing the affair to their own BS.



I agree it's possible due to the convo, but the story she gave included disputing facts from my email to OMW. IOW, he likely defended himself based on those particular allegations at that time. Besides I'd like to think he was a true coward and never told his wife anything until he had to.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Whoops-

I almost forgot

Add this part in before I had the fight and tried to expose to OMW (in fact it probably added friction to the fight) I had planned on writing about this but skipped it by accident (freudian?)


This isn't something I'm proud of either. In my attempts of understanding my wife's motivations and feelings of excitement she experienced I actually took steps to have an affair of my own for a short lived 3 hour period. 

Well, maybe those reasons aren't truthful and perhaps were lies that I told myself, I was more likely looking for revenge and perhaps hurt someone who hurt me to show them what it feels like.

I started my search on craigslist and found an ad for a dating website devoted to cheaters (which can't be named here as it's filtered). I even created a profile with no pic so I could peruse the ads. 

Luckily for me I can recognize a rip-off when I see one.

I quickly learned you'd have to spend some serious money to even interact with people and get details. I also figured there were likely 8 times more men than women on these sites. And after reading some of the pathetic intros to profiles of the women I realized what I was doing was so wrong. 

I came to my senses.

Even if I wanted to hurt my wife in such a manner, how could I be the one to hurt someone else's spouse after knowing what it feels like.

I deleted the profile.

I even confessed to my wife during one of our talking "sessions"
You could physically see how nervous that made her and I felt sick for even thinking of doing it. She made the comment of understanding why and expressed relief it went nowhere but I'm sure it shook her badly and added to the building tension.

But if I am going to be honest here I may as well tell everything that happened. In some ways I am a cheater as well, there was no excuse for what I did as short lived as it was. We didn't sweep it under the rug either, I have always remained transparent and reciprocated with giving her my own passwords and such. While she never brings it up in our talks, I have on occasion and always express my true remorse for that.


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> Whoops-
> 
> I almost forgot
> 
> I started my search on craigslist and found an ad for a dating website devoted to cheaters (which can't be named here as it's filtered). I even created a profile with no pic so I could peruse the ads.
> 
> 
> I came to my senses.


I guess it's natural to want to hurt those that hurt you. I can see how you would want to get revenge on the situation, but glad you "pulled the plug" on it, so to speak. Just from reading about you and your life experiences, this doesn't seem to be something that is in your nature. Just my thoughts...


----------



## Almostrecovered

I appreciate that you said that southern, but I refuse to ignore the fact that I was all but a credit card number away from doing something horrible


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> I appreciate that you said that southern, but I refuse to ignore the fact that I was all but a credit card number away from doing something horrible


I understand, but you seemed to have been in your own "fog" and about to do something very regrettable. And good for you for including this detail in your story.


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> the upside was that she was willing to tell me what she had done and in a weird sense was asking for help. I would have never known had she not told me.


That was a good sign, one that the fog was beginning to lift. Even though she fished for renewed contact with OM, she admitted to it.



Almostrecovered said:


> This "offering" was probably the one thing that saved her. I told her that she would get this one mulligan (to this day I still can't believe I used that word) and anymore would result in getting a lawyer.


Great job on setting consequences and her showing remorse by putting in her resignation. From what I've seen, a workplace affair is one of the most difficult affairs to kill, AND the BS can never truly heal or have any peace of mind because of the chance of renewed contact, after all, you can't watch them at work unless you actually work with them. 

I'm curious, did your WW also go NC with that group of friends too? Because they are definitely not friends of the marriage, and most likely enabled the affair. The friend even possibly facilitated your WW calling the OM by lending her cell phone. It's hard to believe that the so-called friend would unintentionally leave her cell phone for your WW to use.

One of the things that really annoys me is when coworkers have these after hours get togethers at bars/clubs, and actually enable coworker affairs when they know one or both of them are married. My own fWW would tell me that her coworkers invite her out all the time for their get togethers at bars and she would refuse or make up some excuse to get out of it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> I'm curious, did your WW also go NC with that group of friends too? Because they are definitely not friends of the marriage, and most likely enabled the affair. The friend even possibly facilitated your WW calling the OM by lending her cell phone. It's hard to believe that the so-called friend would unintentionally leave her cell phone for your WW to use.
> 
> One of the things that really annoys me is when coworkers have these after hours get togethers at bars/clubs, and actually enable coworker affairs when they know one or both of them are married. My own fWW would tell me that her coworkers invite her out all the time for their get togethers at bars and she would refuse or make up some excuse to get out of it.



I was going to get to that, but I'm fairly confident that the only people who knew of the affair at the time weren't at the bar. The people in my wife's department were mostly women and not all of them could eat at the same dinner break. The only one who was indeed was part of that dinner break group was the one she took the phone from. However, she was a recent divorcee who was a BS and my wife had no intentions of telling her due to the shame involved in that. In fact, two weeks after she left work she was defriended by this woman on facebook, so it was apparent that the rumor mill got back to her at that point My wife hasn't spoken to anyone at her work since then and after she got defriended she then defriended the 3-4 co-workers left still on her facebook account.

I'm sure that OM's buddies (like the ones who were "supposed" to go his house that 1st day) knew what was happening and were probably the gossipers.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 8-
The rebirth
5 weeks-6month post dday

After trying to expose the affair to OMW, we had no more drama or surprises or any signs or indications of the affair continuing. (and believe me when I say that I was obsessively checking) I will have to give my wife heaps of credit for this time period. If she went out for a 10 minute excursion to the store to get milk she would call and tell me. If she hit traffic and would be 4 minutes late, she would call. While she was out of work she would get on IM and chat with me a good chunk of the day while I worked at the computer. As I stated to Lord Mayhem in the post above, my wife even excised herself from all of her work friends (and was cut out by one first). 

It was a truly confusing time as much as real solid improvements were being made I had a hard time coming to terms with everything. For starters my confidence was shot to hell. 

I consider myself an educated and intelligent person. I've always have been able to process and learn things quickly. Yet I had this very strange duality occurring in my own head. 

Emotionally, I felt I was to blame. I kept wondering, "What was wrong with me?" "Why would my wife choose another man to lose sleep with, confide in and have sex? Was I that bad or unattractive, was the OM a better lover, do I satisfy my wife, etc etc etc etc etc etc?"

Logically, I knew that the affair was her fault. It had little to do with me and my behavior and mostly to do with her poor choices. I knew this and understood it.

It was reconciling the two sides that I had trouble with.

It took an incredible amount of mental effort to cease being so passive aggressive and walking on eggshells in fear of losing her. I think the thing that helped me the most was seeing and hearing about her fear of the same. 

Yet through all of her tears as she cried that she was sorry that she hurt me and wish she could undo everything, etc, there was that part in the back of brain screaming, "IF YOU FEEL SO BAD AND SAY THAT YOU LOVE ME THEN WHY DID YOU DO IT?!!!" "WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY?!!!"

And then there was the paper thin level of trust that I had for her.
I must've asked the same questions at least 50 times, waiting to see if the story would change and she had intercourse as well or had plans to leave me for good, waiting to see if the other hammer would drop, waiting to hear that there were other affairs prior to this, waiting to hear that she did this because she hated me or that OM was a better lover/person, waiting for the worst. (the worst never came)

When you have expectations of the worst, it becomes increasingly difficult to trust despite their efforts of being completely transparent and never finding anything to contradict what they say.

The best healing factor in all of this was time-

and I don't mean time to forget, because it's obviously still fresh in my mind or else I couldn't recall all of this with such detail.

I mean time as in...

time spent with each other- we were spending more time with each than ever before
time spent talking- putting aside our half hour sessions, we really talked about a lot of things and as a result we really had a better way of understanding one another and our needs
time bonding physically- sex was amazing and out of this world and we would have sex 6-8 times a week during this period. ( I even started to get sore down there, LOL)
time doing things together that we both enjoyed- as weird as this sounds, I think stumbling across a band we never heard before really helped us bond. My wife likes prog rock/alternative music and I like jam band/improv rock (ie. phish). While the other will listen to the other's music and be fine (IOW it was not like we hated each other's music but wouldn't go out of the way to listen to it) we never had much of a commonality in music tatses. Then we came across a band that was a weird mix of prog rock, alternative and improv. This band became our favorite band together and we have seen them in concert now 4 times. The band being a hybrid of what my wife and I liked in music became a symbol of our new marriage.


sorry for digressing so much here, getting back to my point- what was happening was that we essentially falling in love all over again in a new light and that damn affair probably gave us that jump start that we needed. I was really enjoying our marriage again. 

But like I said it was a confusing time of polar opposites-

That damn affair was still hanging over our heads and just as I thought we were getting past it and things had improved greatly, I hit the wall around the 6 month part.


next up- Part 9- the backlash


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> That damn affair was still hanging over our heads and just as I thought we were getting past it and things had improved greatly, I hit the wall around the 6 month part.
> 
> 
> next up- Part 9- the backlash


I need another hit! I'm addicted.


----------



## Almostrecovered

sorry, I'm drained

besides I'm trying to get this to end on a certain date


----------



## pidge70

Honestly, this is like getting a book a chapter at a time. I may die from anticipation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

outline of what I have planned-

tomorrow- part 9 6months to one year
wednesday & thursday- one year til now focusing on a particular topic that will come from right field (and will be very uncomfortable talking about and no I didn't have an affair)
friday- a reflection of what I learned, what I should have done differently, and the 2 year anniversary of dday


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> sorry, I'm drained
> 
> besides I'm trying to get this to end on a certain date


Don't be sorry. I know it's draining mentally and physically from all the typing. You're doing a great job! :smthumbup:


----------



## it-guy

Almostrecovered said:


> particular topic that will come from right field (and will be very uncomfortable talking about


Let me guess, I bet this is how your sex life has been affected post affair. Take a few months to realize that you are different in more ways than you thought.


----------



## better than before

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

better than before said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_



you don't say!


----------



## better than before

Didn't mean to post anything- oops! I am glued to your story- so glad you and w so good almost 2 years out! I know my H and I are on the right track. I still feel myself questioning how could he if I was good enough, but only on bad days, which are luckily now few and far between 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> The hard truth is that the majority of people end up flying blind in dealing with affairs. I guess that's why it's so damn frustrating on the boards that when *you can actually offer your experience to help someone else and they still make the same damn mistakes*. (and equally satisfying when you can actually help someone willing to listen like Sham for instance)


:iagree:

It is frustrating for sure.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 9
Echoes aren't supposed to come back stronger
6 months to 1 year post Dday


From a logical perspective, things were looking really good by this point. There was no signs whatsoever that the wife had continued her affair or contacted OM and no signs OM tried to contact her, the wife got her masters and was also out of the house doing her internship during the day and getting proper sleep finally. (her being at home during the day while she was doing her final semester was a trigger for me as her and OM met at my house during the day while I was at work) Our talks were very fruitful and communication was at its best ever in the marriage, sex was also still truly amazing. I was having lots of fun with the wife and our love seemed stronger than before.

Yet I was in a deep depression and dealing with obsessive behavior and an ever growing sense of paranoia.

I mean WTF? Why was this happening to me? Why can't the right side of the brain catch up to the left side? I felt so unbalanced up there that I was probably wandering around in circles since my head tilted to one side. (okay so this a weak attempt at a metaphor)

The paranoia was overwhelming at times and I use that term because the fear was never founded in anything and often twisted to fit my ideas of how she could work around the "checkpoint system" I had set up with VAR's, keyloggers, etc. I truly believe that I ever wish to have an affair that I probably could get away with it. I have thought of so many ways and scenarios that my wife could have used to avoid detection. From burner phones, to codes, to fake facebook accounts, from phone cards hiding numbers, and I even thought that some spam she received in her email looked suspicious and began scouring her spam messages for possible communication.

To give a good example of my behavior and obsessive thinking at that time- one morning I went to grab a new tube of toothpaste. We keep the unused hygiene items in the linen closet that's in our bathroom that's located right next to the shower. I noticed that the panel on the wall adjacent to the shower that opens up to allow access to the pipes was slightly ajar. I was so hypersensitive to anything that seemed out of place that I immediately thought to myself, "Hmmmm...that would be a perfect hiding spot. I wonder if my wife did have a pay as you go phone if she would hide it in there." I then grabbed the flashlight and did a 3 minute detailed search of that 2ft x 2ft area that was reachable from the closet and found nothing but schmutz and an old 7up can that was probably left there when the house was built.

And that would actually be considered somewhat "normal" behavior- but I obsessively checked that damn cobwebby and dusty nook each morning for close to a month.

Each time I found nothing at any of my convoluted theories I would then feel relief and shortly after feel horrible and depressed. The only time I would feel good when was I around my wife and I held back on telling her how bad I got in my searches and paranoia. The paranoid side to me said to hold it back because IF she was still cheating then you need to stay quiet.


I inherently knew this wasn't good and at first I tried to blame my behavior on my bipolarism and tried switching meds. But that didn't work and I started to google for help and found an infidelity support board.


----------



## Almostrecovered

While the people who visit both this board and the board I initially found and started to post on will easily recognize who I am (and I know of at least two people based on the same screen name) I prefer to keep it separate and will not name that board. Both boards have their niches and strengths and weaknesses. I will admit to using this board much more frequently recently as there are more posters and responses are more frequent as a result. I found this board due to something said about this place on the other board.


When I first encountered the other forum I read for a bit and saw the stories of betrayed spouses and quite honestly, most of the stories seemed much worse than mine. I also noticed the success rate seemed low, there were maybe 3-4 posters claiming they had repaired their marriage and lots and lots of sob stories. There was one thread that seemed to go on forever and the poor guy just seemed frozen and never acted. In my mind I called this guy Hamlet but I soon realized that there were a lot more Hamlets out there (both men and women). 

In a way, seeing how these Hamlets were just destroying their souls by not putting their foot down because of the fear of divorce I gained some confidence in knowing that I did some things right. I also was able to look back on the affair and see the same patterns and the fog that my wife exhibited. It also put my own story in a good light compared to most. I felt that my problems weren't so bad compared to what was going with these betrayed spouses dealing with serial cheaters and compulsive liars. I also gained a lot of information on the psychology of affairs and general stats that I wanted to know.

The one thing it lacked was that I didn't see anyone posting about what I was going through during this time. So, I butched up and made my first post.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Just now, I actually went back and read my first post

Not only did I hold back from wife about how truly awful my paranoia was I held back on the forum too. My post mostly talks about my fantasy of traveling back in time to cause more havok, and I was so hurt at that time that I wanted to hurt her more back then.

This last part of the post is interesting however-

_Frankly, I'm tired of being the victim. I want the relationship to be equal again and I want the trust back. Complete and utter trust is the only real thing missing right now and let's face it, that's still a big cog in the machinery of a successful marriage. Maybe I'm just being impatient, maybe I'm in a downswing of my manic-depression, maybe these feelings are what a normal person feels. I have no idea really and I sense I'm rambling now so I'll stop for now_.


This really speaks to the dichotomy of my feelings. I was reaching everywhere for answers.

Over the next few months I was able to get some help from the other posters not only by their responses but by also being able to help others and interacting with the endless parade of betrayed spouses.

As the months flew by I calmed and stopped looking for the boogeyman. I also came to the realization that my new founded paranoia was rooted in the fact that things were indeed improving and that was a scary thing to me. Back when I first uncovered my wife's affair I was fully prepared to divorce her. Our marriage at that point was stale. Now that the marriage was going so well I then became deathly afraid of losing it. After all, losing her was a much more real possibility in my mind than it was 7 months prior-my wife was a cheater. During this time on the forums, I learned about what it takes to heal from infidelity and I utilized it to strengthen my own resolve and marriage and for that I am grateful.


----------



## lordmayhem

Like you, I went through the *Hypervigilance* stage. I thought I would be like this forever, eventually after months of not finding anything, and her completely remorseful behavior, it began to wear off. I began to feel safe again, and trust was slowly being rebuilt. 

Gotta love that *hysterical bonding* sex! Too bad it didn't last.


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> Like you, I went through the *Hypervigilance* stage. I thought I would be like this forever, eventually after months of not finding anything, and her completely remorseful behavior, it began to wear off. I began to feel safe again, and trust was slowly being rebuilt.
> 
> Gotta love that *hysterical bonding* sex! Too bad it didn't last.



oh goody!! my condition has a name


and actually the sex is still very strong right now although tapered just a touch (4-5 times a week still and very satisfying)


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> and actually the sex is still very strong right now although tapered just a touch (4-5 times a week still and very satisfying)


Ok, you got me jealous now! :smthumbup:


----------



## it-guy

Just past the 10 months anniversary. I have been texting my wife a lot lately. Today, she did not answer me for a couple of hours. I took the kids to school and went to the gym before work (I can come and go at work).

So after 2 hours of waiting on a responce I freaked out and went back to my house. I wanted to see if she was still there or not. I knew what her plans for the day were afterall.

She was there. And, I felt like an a$$ for checking on her.

Good news is that she did not take it too hard. Had some good mid-day, no kids home, get your freak on, hysterical bonding sex.

I didn't feel so bad for checking on her after that. I may check again tomorrow


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 10- 

Where did THAT come from?

1 year post d-day to today



I couldn't pinpoint the moment that I finally started to ease off the hypervigilence (as Lord Mayhem put it), it just sort of happened. In the last year I have had moments here and there of either dwelling on the affair (and wanting my time machine) or getting spooked. But the intensity is always less than before and the frequency would stretch from days to weeks and now months apart.

I would frequent the infidelity forums for periods of time and then take a break for a while and come back here and there. It felt good to help others (or try) and I still learn more about myself, my wife, and what she did through reading about others. They say we all follow a script, yet that script seems to get clearer as time goes by reading more on the forums as if there were lines that were mumbled and are now subtitled for clarity.

While we had no real drama or anything too bad to report on I will come out and say that we had a weird moment there.

As I stated before I am almost embarrassed to bring the following up knowing that some of you will judge and throw the usual shaming words at me. Yet I am what I am and it what it is. If I'm going to be honest here I will put it out there for discussion. I've only seen this topic broached once on infidelity forums so far. Of course it met with some derision that it was even being bandied about.

To preface- 

I never suffered too much from the mind movies that many betrayed spouses talk of. The worst moments regarding those were fleeting thoughts during sex with my wife that I managed to wipe from my mind in order to enjoy what I was doing. I never really had them otherwise. My mind movies were more of imagining what I could have done to stop the affair or make it worse for OM and even my wife.


And I can't quite pinpoint when this happened to me either, it just sort of did as well, maybe somewhere around the 11-12 month mark.

I started to fantasize sexually about my wife being with other men and even more specifically with me joining in. So I'm clear, there was never gay contact in these fantasies and let me also make it clear that OM was NEVER involved in any of this, I never pictured him in these fantasies.


Sure I always had the standard guy fantasy of having a women in a threesome with the wife. But for some reason this fantasy started to creep into my thinking. I even started to watch porn that had group sex in this manner (and even watched with the wife on many occasions) 

Since sex was an easy topic to discuss with the wife, we always shared ideas and new things to try. After a few months of noticing she also enjoyed the MMF porn we ended trying a few things sexually (without going into much detail, let me just say we used a toy during intercourse) that both of us seemed to enjoy. 

This led me to actually bring up the subject with my wife of something I always thought might be fun to try-




I asked my wife if she would consider same room swinging




more in a bit


----------



## LovesHerMan

Fascinating. I wonder why your brain would go in that direction? Thanks so much for posting your story.


----------



## Almostrecovered

lovesherman said:


> Fascinating. I wonder why your brain would go in that direction? Thanks so much for posting your story.



good question- and I'll get to what happened later today (nothing bad fortunately and nothing really came of it) 

But I will say this- based on the discussion in the other forum- I'm not the only one that this happened to. I'm not saying it's common either. And I hope it doesn't imply that I am a cuckold, because it was a fantasy based more in orgy sex than purely watching my wife with another man. So be it if people would rather throw that label on me anyways.

I can only guess that somehow my brain in an attempt to accept my wife's infidelity got some wires crossed.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Now bear in mind that I was the one asking, not my wife. She never hinted other than enjoying the porn fantasies.


She said that it intrigued her but was afraid if I would get too jealous and it would remind me too much of the affair.

We ultimately ended up talking about that IF we did indeed decide to go down this road that we would set up very defined boundaries.
And there's no real point as to stating to what they were as we never went through with anything other than meeting a couple at a bar (god they were awful, you could tell right away that they should NOT be swingers) and being voyeurs at a sex club once.

We eventually realized a few things-

This is something where the fantasy is much better than the reality

It was indeed too soon after the affair as it would take rock solid trust for this to happen successfully

Finding the right couple to do this with seemed largely impossible

Our sex life is just fine and thus any enhancement that is more trouble than it's worth is not where we should go




so my swinging career petered out in less than a month with nary a touch


and that was for the best 




next part 11- where we are now and some reflection


----------



## Almostrecovered

it-guy said:


> Let me guess, I bet this is how your sex life has been affected post affair. Take a few months to realize that you are different in more ways than you thought.



good call btw


----------



## it-guy

Almostrecovered said:


> good call btw



Lol....well...

You are right that this happens to some people. As for how common…I have no clue. I’m willing to bet that this thread may bring a couple people out…like myself.

The day after D-Day I discovered the pictures that my wife had taken for the OM. There were lots of them. The majority of them being more explicit that even I had ever seen of her before….in pics or even in person. The word “close-up” does not even come close. It was more like a gynecology lesson.

Just like everyone else in that situation, I was crushed. My mind was all messed up. I was just a wreck. But, even in that painful moment I found myself VERY aroused by those pictures. As a matter of fact I did “take care of business” so to speak, soon after finding them. Now I know a lot of you are like…WTF??? I don’t care. This is my wife we are talking about and it’s safe to say that I am very attracted to her. Add to that, these were freak nasty pics of my wife. Add to that even more that I have always had voyeuristic tendencies, and these were pics that I should not have seen. So I don’t care what you think. I was turned on. Was I also mad and disgusted??? Yep, and even more confused about myself than I have ever been in my entire life. After the fact I even said WTF to myself a few times.

Within months of the affair, during the crazy bonding period, we did share fantasy’s involving both other women and other men. This turned us both on, but I suspect my wife got into it a little more than me. To this day I’m not sure how serious she was (still confused a little). But for me, it was just a fantasy. I know that I could not handle seeing her with anyone else. I would most certainly have long term issues and I believe it would eventually destroy our marriage.

I attribute some of this to the fact that we were both pretty inexperienced when we married. She was a virgin. I guess you could say that I look at her a little differently now. She’s been with another man in a sense (no intercourse), and she will never be that “pure” wife that she once was. I know that is a very selfish thing for me to say, but it is a very real thing to me.

My wife and I have talked in detail about both of these issues above. And as of this date, there are no lingering issues, and we really don’t talk about it anymore. We are not going to swing or have a threesome. We can however have some fun on our own, share fantasies a little (as long as she doesn’t trigger me too much), and watch some movies.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Part 11-

Trial by fire
Today and beyond



So where are we today?


As I explained in the beginning, the affair events are almost like watching a movie now. There isn't much of an emotional connection rehashing this as there once was one so strongly. Don't get me wrong, there are twinges still, faint echos of doubt and I sure do still want that time machine.

But overall the marriage is good, even great in some areas. We really enjoy each other in many, many ways. I miss her when I'm at work and thinking about her now brings a smile on my face. The sex tapered just slightly from insane hyperbonding 8 times a week or more to a nice clip of 4-5 times a week and even that strange fantasy of mine has faded quite a bit. We both love listening to our band together. The kids are now old enough to leave by themselves for short periods of time so we even get out and see comedy shows and concerts and movies. We laugh a lot at the same stupid inside jokes we have and other couple friends have remarked how great we are together recently and express some jealousy over it. We hold hands all the time even if we're just watching TV together and we're playful-like teens smacking each other's butts when one is making dinner or just walking by. 

While it ain't perfect, we can diffuse our disagreements quickly since we now know how to communicate in a positive manner. There's little brooding or passive aggressive bull and when either of us wants something we aren't afraid to simply ask for it.


Yet there is that little issue of trust.


Can I trust her 100%?


Nope


Will I live my life in fear that she will cheat on me again?


Nope- I'm having too much fun. While I will never discount the fact that it could happen again, I have taken the plunge. I refuse to let this hang over my head any longer. We went through our trial by fire and we both came out better people. While she poured the gasoline and lit the match, she certainly grabbed as many buckets of water as she could to put it out. She now knows that she has all the strikes I'm ever going to allow her and if she strikes again she is gone. 


Will she ever cheat on me again?

I have no idea, and neither does anyone ever know really. I'm in the same state as anyone married. None of us thought this could happen to us. So really the difference is that I now know that it can happen. My 99% of trust is some ways better than a blissful 100% of trust that people who haven't dealt with infidelity yet have .


----------



## Almostrecovered

it-guy said:


> My wife and I have talked in detail about both of these issues above. And as of this date, there are no lingering issues, and we really don’t talk about it anymore. We are not going to swing or have a threesome. We can however have some fun on our own, share fantasies a little (as long as she doesn’t trigger me too much), and watch some movies.


I came to the same conclusion but just took a few more steps before coming to that. I'm happy we didn't go any more further than we did.


----------



## it-guy

Almostrecovered said:


> My 99% of trust is some ways better than a blissful 100% of trust that people who haven't dealt with infidelity yet have .


This is a good one. Thanks.


----------



## Almostrecovered

and thanks for not leaving me alone on this, I was certain I was not the only one but it helps that you're willing to out yourself at the same time


----------



## lordmayhem

Thanks for the sharing your story here and I've learned from it and I hope others have too. 



Almostrecovered said:


> I have no idea, and neither does anyone ever know really. I'm in the same state as anyone married. None of us thought this could happen to us. So really the difference is that I now know that it can happen. My 99% of trust is some ways better than a blissful 100% of trust that people who haven't dealt with infidelity yet have .


I feel the exact same way bro. Now I know my fWW can betray me, but at least I know what signs to look for and not live in ignorant bliss. Keeps me on my toes. I'm only 15 months out from DDay, and I feel my trust level is around 96%. I think I checked on her about a week ago.....I think. I'm not sure. The keyloggers and VARs never show anything anyway, and her behavior has reverted to pre-affair.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I simply got bored of checking, I now use the keylogger to check to see if my sons are doing things on the computer that they shouldnt be doing.


so.....no terminology for my freakiness?


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> I simply got bored of checking, I now use the keylogger to check to see if my sons are doing things on the computer that they shouldnt be doing.
> 
> 
> so.....no terminology for my freakiness?


Nope. The hysterical bonding and the affair only opened you to new ideas and desires.


----------



## it-guy

I consider it more of a mind ****
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Epilogue-

2 years ago today.....


.....I started to find out my wife was having an affair



I've decided to take this day to look back and see what worked and why I was able to reconcile with my wife. 

You take a look around the forum and you will see that there aren't many of us who have done this- so why am I in this small handful of people?


1) First and foremost- My wayward spouse was willing to work on the marriage and atone for the affair by being remorseful, being transparent and stopped the affair completely through no contact. She was willing to do the heavy lifting as it is said here.

Your first step if you want to R is to find out if your spouse is willing to do this- if they don't then you have lost them anyways and are merely putting yourself through a tortuous process of continued cheating or going underground. You need to make a stand and find out whether or R or D is in the cards. If you recall, I was ready to divorce and my threat was far from empty. This put her to the decision that needed to made then and there- "Him or me?" It could have been him and if it was then there was no point in me staying.

2) My wayward spouse had to prove herself through actions and not words.

You can go through my story and see where she did that. I will reiterate the big three- 
No contact
Transparency
Remorse

3) After the affair was addressed, we opened the doors of communication to work on the problems of the marriage prior to the affair.

I like to say that dealing with an affair is like triage in a hospital If a guy comes in with a broken leg and a heart attack, well the doctors treat the heart attack first and then start to work setting the bone after the man is stable. The affair is the heart attack and the leg is the problems in the marriage.

We swung open the doors of communication wide and were able to overcome the majority of our preaffair problems (and new ones that came up afterwards) by having the 30 minutes session I talked about. I do wish to add a big old "don't try this at home" warning. I had almost 2 decades of therapy and knew how to structure these talks and get my wife to open up and feel safe in doing as such. I highly recommend that MC be used for most everyone who have gone through steps 1&2. (I think MC is next to worthless if an affair is continuing)

NOTE: While we explored the reasons that led up to affair I never let her justify the affair.


4) Although I was late and did a poor job of doing so, I exposed the affair to the OMW.

I really wish to stress this-

a) they deserve to know
b) affairs are like vampires, shining a light on them takes away their powers
c) you may get an ally or extra pair of eyes
d) the OM/OW may throw your spouse under the bus and then help snap them out of the fog (as was the case for me)

5) We rekindled our passion for each through intense bonding


and I'm not talking about just sex (though that helps), I also mean spending quality time together. We started to find commonality again and did things we enjoyed together. This really went a long way. We have fun together and truly enjoy each other's company.




so that's it in a nutshell, I supposed I missed some things along the way but I'm sure I covered all of the important stuff


I hope my story has helped and judging by my PM box I have reached a few people. I know I can't save everyone and I am certainly no expert but I hope by relaying what I went through can be of some help here.


Wish me a happy anniversary everyone- I no longer wish to view this as the anniversary of worst day of my life, I view it as the first day of my rebirth.


----------



## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> Wish me a happy anniversary everyone- I no longer wish to view this as the anniversary of worst day of my life, I view it as the first day of my rebirth.


HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, AR!! :smthumbup:

And thanks for sharing your story. It is truly inspiring and you're a great writer. You know how to keep the audience on the edge of our seats.


----------



## lordmayhem

Great wrap up AR! Happy Anniversary! Textbook response to the affair that your "former" WW (yes, it looks like she earned the f = fWW) did. It looks fairly straightforward, but we all know how difficult in real life it truly was. The lesson here is that there ARE tools that we, as BSs have to expose the affair, kill the affair, and either R or D, depending on the situation. 

You and I are truly fortunate that our fWSs were not so very deep in the affair fog yet, and it saddening to see the BSs who come here whose WSs are so deep in the affair fog and unremorseful, that there is no hope of R for them. Those unfortunate BSs have no choice but to initiate D. That's what happened to me in my first marriage, and my heart goes out to those BSs who are also in that situation.


----------



## Almostrecovered

The short length of time until I stumbled across the affair was definitely a factor as it made the fog easier to lift. I always do wonder if the wife was more careful to hide her tracks (she really didn't know to delete outgoing messages) what would have happened and I think I'd be divorced right now.


----------



## better than before

Thanks for sharing your entire story! I too am grateful my WS has done all he has to be open and totally honest. He is still my best friend, and a wonderful person who temporarily had his head up his a$$. He has shown remorse and worked to rebuild trust. We are communicating so much better; our intimacy is amazing, and sex is great! I feel like we have a new better marriage which is a gift. It is great to read about success stories; everyone needs to see the light!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

So I actually had a dream last night about d-day part 2. Except this time OM was there and I got to beat the sh!t out of him.

It's not that time machine I wanted but it'll do for now

Woke up feeling pretty good. :smthumbup:


----------



## pidge70

Waking up and feeling good is a choice I make every day now. Some days I fare better than others. Today is most definitely a good one for me as well! Here's to both of us continuing that good feeling!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sigma1299

Almostrecovered said:


> You take a look around the forum and you will see that there aren't many of us who have done this- so why am I in this small handful of people?
> 
> 
> 1) First and foremost- My wayward spouse was willing to work on the marriage and atone for the affair by being remorseful, being transparent and stopped the affair completely through no contact. She was willing to do the heavy lifting as it is said here.
> 
> Your first step if you want to R is to find out if your spouse is willing to do this- if they don't then you have lost them anyways and are merely putting yourself through a tortuous process of continued cheating or going underground. You need to make a stand and find out whether or R or D is in the cards. If you recall, I was ready to divorce and my threat was far from empty. This put her to the decision that needed to made then and there- "Him or me?" It could have been him and if it was then there was no point in me staying.
> 
> 2) My wayward spouse had to prove herself through actions and not words.
> 
> You can go through my story and see where she did that. I will reiterate the big three-
> No contact
> Transparency
> Remorse
> 
> 3) After the affair was addressed, we opened the doors of communication to work on the problems of the marriage prior to the affair.
> 
> I like to say that dealing with an affair is like triage in a hospital If a guy comes in with a broken leg and a heart attack, well the doctors treat the heart attack first and then start to work setting the bone after the man is stable. The affair is the heart attack and the leg is the problems in the marriage.
> 
> We swung open the doors of communication wide and were able to overcome the majority of our preaffair problems (and new ones that came up afterwards) by having the 30 minutes session I talked about. I do wish to add a big old "don't try this at home" warning. I had almost 2 decades of therapy and knew how to structure these talks and get my wife to open up and feel safe in doing as such. I highly recommend that MC be used for most everyone who have gone through steps 1&2. (I think MC is next to worthless if an affair is continuing)
> 
> NOTE: While we explored the reasons that led up to affair I never let her justify the affair.
> 
> 
> 4) Although I was late and did a poor job of doing so, I exposed the affair to the OMW.
> 
> I really wish to stress this-
> 
> a) they deserve to know
> b) affairs are like vampires, shining a light on them takes away their powers
> c) you may get an ally or extra pair of eyes
> d) the OM/OW may throw your spouse under the bus and then help snap them out of the fog (as was the case for me)
> 
> 5) We rekindled our passion for each through intense bonding
> 
> 
> and I'm not talking about just sex (though that helps), I also mean spending quality time together. We started to find commonality again and did things we enjoyed together. This really went a long way. We have fun together and truly enjoy each other's company.


Almost - you need to amend your post to newbies here in CWI and add this as the primer for waywards. Great story - glad y'all are doing so well!!


----------



## Almostrecovered

thanks, but I do have this in my signature and prefer to keep actual advice separate from that thread


----------



## the guy

A-
Wow, the simularities are over whelming...just freakishly over whelming.
From start to finish. My father, my wife, and the R, the big difference was my behavior and how I treaded my wife your part 2 or 3 but everything else was so simular.

A very interesting read thank you for sharing.


----------



## sadcalifornian

Almostrecovered said:


> The short length of time until I stumbled across the affair was definitely a factor as it made the fog easier to lift. I always do wonder if the wife was more careful to hide her tracks (she really didn't know to delete outgoing messages) what would have happened and I think I'd be divorced right now.


I think this is so true. Early intervention makes R so much easier for both parties. In order to protect M, one has to be always vigilant to any threat to the M.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Except I wasn't vigilant, just lucky
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

postscript-


Okay, I'm having my worst major trigger/anxiety since almost a year ago.

As it states in my story I didn't use monitoring software right away. I think I finally installed the keylogger by the 2-3 month post d-day period. At that time I also found a program called fchat that was able to restore some deleted chat files but not most since those files were overwritten by that time. (it was in temp memory) I figured there was no way to retrieve those files and gave up on it a long time ago.


....and then I just read this interesting nugget of info an hour ago-



Hijo said:


> Log into the account. In the upper right corner, click the little down arrow and go to "Account Settings".
> 
> On the account page, at the bottom is a link to download an archive. You may be asked to re-enter the password for the account. Depending upon the amount of data on the account, Facebook may take a while to collect the data and zip it up.
> 
> Between the time you request the archive and the time you actually download it, you need to watch the email account associated to the facebook account like a hawk.
> 
> FACEBOOK WILL EMAIL A NOTIFICATION TO THAT EMAIL THAT "YOUR ARCHIVE IS READY FOR DOWNLOAD" WHEN IT COMPLETES THE ZIP FILE. Be ready to kill that email and remove it from trash immediately.
> 
> So, before you snag an archive from facebook, make sure you have full, uninterrupted access to the associated email and your WS is not monitoring the email. (Asleep, at work, etc).
> 
> Our ISP runs our email system through google. Google (gmail) has this neat thing called filters. I did the following:
> 
> set up a filter for all facebook mail to be forwarded to my account and then deleted from my wifes account (this happens as it arrives)
> hide the "Trash" folder from her IMAP connections. She doesn't go to the website to read her email, she uses IMAP on the iphone and via outlook. The above deleted messages have a copy in "Trash", but she doesn't see them.
> I've turned on maximum email notifications in her facebook setup so every little notification she gets (new comment, post, message, etc) is emailed to her email account (and then forwarded and deleted).
> 
> If your spouse is one to go in and mess with her facebook notification settings, this last may be a bit harder for you to do. If she is one that is expecting to get email notifications from facebook, you can do without deletion, just forward em. (no, it will not appear in "sent items" when it is done via a filter rule).
> 
> If your spouse is IT saavy, all bets are off. Good luck with that!


(btw- we really need more stickies here)

So now I know I can get those chat logs and I'm feeling just as anxious as over a year ago as a result.

I know myself, I will be compelled to do this no matter what. I will likely do this tomorrow morning while the wife is at work as I have access to both her FB account and email. (so here I stew for the night, ugh) 

what's triggering me about it

1) While I hope I won't find anything that I don't already know about, it is definitely a real fear/concern that I will.

2) While I know the "details", I will actually get to see the "details". Not exactly a fun thing to do.

3) I now have the onus of informing OMW all over again, 2 years later, as I will have more proof to show her. I was hoping to keep them out of my life. (unless you guys have a good reason for me not to do this)


ah....crap

....time to find that old stash of Ativan.


----------



## golfergirl

I wouldn't. What's important is what happened from R day forward not the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

golfergirl said:


> I wouldn't. What's important is what happened from R day forward not the past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


nope, I can't help it, I will end up doing it


----------



## golfergirl

Almostrecovered said:


> nope, I can't help it, I will end up doing it


Hey, I tried! That said, um, I'd look too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Just started the process...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

well that was a bust

facebook started saving your chat sessions in with your message folder back in April or May of this year, so any chats done before then weren't in the archive. (they never did message each other facebook and only used chat)


----------



## Almostrecovered

got off the phone with wife not too long ago and I told her what I just did this morning, she was fine with it and never showed any umbrage and just expressed remorse yet again.

On a side note we started to talk more about TAM since that's where I found out how to do it. She knew I visited support boards but never asked much about them. I relayed some stories that I've read here (Sham and CB) and told her about posting ours. So I guess there's a chance she might be reading this now. If that's the case, Hi hunny!


----------



## it-guy

That was bad....

Like you, I saw those facebook instructions for the first time yesterday and totally snapped. I started the download and agonizing 1.5 hour wait for the file to be created. During that time I had mentally prepared myself as to what was going to or not going to happen that evening. My heart was beating out of my chest. I was physically sick….probably white as a ghost. I was not strong enough to keep from doing it.

I got the file and then found that due to the volume of messaging my wife has had, the message file only went back to 4 days post D-Day. So I saw nothing. Only saw that she has not contacted him via facebook since D-Day, which is a good thing actually.

I also immediately called my wife and told her what I had done. I don’t want to keep things from her. There is no excuse for me to do these things 10 months out. We are recovering and I have not snooped for a long time. It was just too much for me. And, I hurt her yesterday by doing that.

I got a lot out of this forum and especially this thread. I have a lot of respect for the people on this board. But this shows me that I need to take a break from TAM. I just don’t need to see things like I did yesterday. Yesterday was destructive to me. I’ll be around….but I just need to back waaaay off for a while.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I've taken breaks as well so I understand it-guy.


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> well that was a bust
> 
> facebook started saving your chat sessions in with your message folder back in April or May of this year, so any chats done before then weren't in the archive. (they never did message each other facebook and only used chat)


I did that twice already, once last year, and another one yesterday. The archive data is still very limited. Just like your fWW, mine only chatted and talked on the phone, they didn't PM each other except for the initial PMs. No wonder she was saying that I could check her messages, because there weren't any. I know for sure they mainly chatted and use the phone because on DDay, I logged into my fWWs account and OM started chatting with me, assuming he was chatting with my fWW. 

Also, it sure as hell doesn't have any deleted PMs either, only those that are still in the PM folder that haven't been deleted. Neither does it show who was on the friends list and who has been deleted. It only shows current friends.

The only thing I think the data download is good for is IF the WS has not had a chance to delete any evidence and they don't know that you have their password.


----------



## Almostrecovered

today is the 2 year anniversary of my feeble attempt at exposing to the OMW- I hope people can learn from my mistakes here and do it quicker and with more preparedness


----------



## Mrs1980

Thanks AR. I did my OW contact not the best way but I do think it made things very awkward at work for the 2 so it helped in stopping contact.

I just read your whole story today and I want to comment on the sex part. Since I busted my h (he still denies and he's a computer expert so I can't run the same keyloggers ect on him to prove) on his poss EA, I have changed completely sexually. Of course entering my early 30's I have noticed myself wanting more and initiating more but since I found all the texts ect involving my H-I find myself hyper sexualized. I find myself wanting a MFM, I started looking on craigslist (partly to see if I could bust him on any posts he created but partly to see if any man would be interested in me) I made a fake gmail account and chated with men about how crappy I felt about myself (nothing sexual-I quit after one sent me a pix of his new baby). 

I am not proud of what I have become  My H and I are doing much better but I feel completely changed as a person. I don't like how high and twisted my sex desire has become. My guess is I am trying to treat my self esteem in this manner? Any advice? Ideas? My h and I have been having a lot more sex which is great but I want my old self back.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I swear something happens to some women when they hit their 30's

as far as your sexuality goes, you can't change yourself- just keep the line clear between fantasy and reality. I actually just had an email exchange with another TAM member who was considering doing the whole MFM thing and when I outlined just how much goes into it she realized that it is much better left as a fantasy than actually trying to implement it. Do other things to simulate with your husband what you like about the MFM scenario (like using toys for DP) instead.
The one thing that no one ever says about swinging is how much it can be a huge waste of time. Putting aside the risk of STD's, running into dangerous possibilities and crossing boundaries, it just isn't worth it in my opinion.


----------



## Almostrecovered

BTW- if you husband is high tech then go low tech- use VAR's and have him followed


----------



## Mrs1980

dumb question: Does radio interfere with VARs? My h listens a lot in the car and loudly.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Well it will pick it up, but it won't stop the recording, I would also assume he would turn down the radio to talk on the phone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> Well it will pick it up, but it won't stop the recording, I would also assume he would turn down the radio to talk on the phone
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Yep. My WW always turns down the radio to talk, fortunately, its to call me or the kids.


----------



## Just Tired Of It All

AlostRecovered:

I must say... wow... i just found this site few days ago.. posted then stumbled accross your post/story and I have been glued every since.. goodness I just cant wait to get home to get back on here to read your writing... I am gaining alot of useful information to deal with my own drama.. yes at this time in my life it is just considered drama to me.. But you writing this is just so informative but so much shall I say the best Novel IV read in awhile.. wow you should write a book Sir, if most self/help on infedelity was as interesting and well writen as yours, well maybe people like myself wouldnt be surfing the net trying to find some kind of metal, emotional self help recovery system.. Ok I got to get back to reading... I just wanted to say that this is very good.. I wish I could write as well as you because my story would be a expressive one. but I am not a great writer.. you have managed to express your story and keep me coming back to read more.. And you was so strong through it.. it gives me courage that I may be that strong one day... Thank you for writing this....


----------



## Almostrecovered

Just Tired Of It All said:


> AlostRecovered:
> 
> I must say... wow... i just found this site few days ago.. posted then stumbled accross your post/story and I have been glued every since.. goodness I just cant wait to get home to get back on here to read your writing... I am gaining alot of useful information to deal with my own drama.. yes at this time in my life it is just considered drama to me.. But you writing this is just so informative but so much shall I say the best Novel IV read in awhile.. wow you should write a book Sir, if most self/help on infedelity was as interesting and well writen as yours, well maybe people like myself wouldnt be surfing the net trying to find some kind of metal, emotional self help recovery system.. Ok I got to get back to reading... I just wanted to say that this is very good.. I wish I could write as well as you because my story would be a expressive one. but I am not a great writer.. you have managed to express your story and keep me coming back to read more.. And you was so strong through it.. it gives me courage that I may be that strong one day... Thank you for writing this....


----------



## I Know

Thanks for posting AR. Your story is BRUTAL. I'm 25 yr happily married so I don't need your blueprint for dealing w/ cheating. But who ever really thinks they would need something like this?


----------



## lordmayhem

I Know said:


> Thanks for posting AR. Your story is BRUTAL. I'm 25 yr happily married so I don't need your blueprint for dealing w/ cheating. But who ever really thinks they would need something like this?


Nobody. And not me, that's for sure. Here I thought after a long military career of shift work, many deployments, constant moving around and 21 years, that I thought we were home free and safe and could cruise into our mid life and golden years. Now that its happened to me, I've learned:


It does not matter how long you've been married. It could be less than a year to a 40 year marriage. Your spouse can cheat at ANY point in the marriage. There is no safe period.
It does not matter how many children you have or how old they are. Your spouse can cheat on you during pregnancy, or when the children are young, or in their teens, or grown up. It doesn't matter if you have disabled children or not either. It doesn't matter if you have no kids or 8 kids. They can and will cheat.
It doesn't matter their level of education
It doesn't matter at what age you marry.
It doesn't matter if you were their first, or if they had many partners before you
It doesn't matter if they have enabling, toxic friends or not. But it is more likely if the do.
It doesn't matter if they come from a dysfunctional family or normal family
It doesn't matter if they're skinny or fat
It doesn't matter if you have a good marriage or a bad marriage
It doesn't matter if you had good communication or poor communication with each other.
It doesn't matter if you've been a good husband/wife

I've learned that ANY marriage is vulnerable if the other spouse compromises their boundaries or is looking to cheat. It's a MYTH that cheating only occurs in bad marriages or if someone's needs are not being fulfilled.


----------



## morituri

lordmayhem said:


> Nobody. And not me, that's for sure. Here I thought after a long military career of shift work, many deployments, constant moving around and 21 years, that I thought we were home free and safe and could cruise into our mid life and golden years. Now that its happened to me, I've learned:
> 
> 
> It does not matter how long you've been married. It could be less than a year to a 40 year marriage. Your spouse can cheat at ANY point in the marriage. There is no safe period.
> It does not matter how many children you have or how old they are. Your spouse can cheat on you during pregnancy, or when the children are young, or in their teens, or grown up. It doesn't matter if you have disabled children or not either. It doesn't matter if you have no kids or 8 kids. They can and will cheat.
> It doesn't matter their level of education
> It doesn't matter at what age you marry.
> It doesn't matter if you were their first, or if they had many partners before you
> It doesn't matter if they have enabling, toxic friends or not. But it is more likely if the do.
> It doesn't matter if they come from a dysfunctional family or normal family
> It doesn't matter if they're skinny or fat
> It doesn't matter if you have a good marriage or a bad marriage
> It doesn't matter if you had good communication or poor communication with each other.
> It doesn't matter if you've been a good husband/wife
> 
> I've learned that ANY marriage is vulnerable if the other spouse compromises their boundaries or is looking to cheat. It's a MYTH that cheating only occurs in bad marriages or if someone's needs are not being fulfilled.


:iagree:

This should be must read for everybody coming to TAM


----------



## Almostrecovered

I Know said:


> Thanks for posting AR. Your story is BRUTAL. I'm 25 yr happily married so I don't need your blueprint for dealing w/ cheating. But who ever really thinks they would need something like this?



as I stated before I wish I had the help back then because I would have liked to do some things differently, even with the experience of what my parents went through I felt lost and alone in many aspects. 
I won't pretend to know the real stats of infidelity but they're high enough that everyone should know what to look for and how to approach it. I truly hope you never have to go through anything similar to what I or what any of us on CWI go through and if my story can help in any way it it makes me proud to have helped people.


----------



## sigma1299

morituri said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This should be must read for everybody coming to TAM


No it should be a must read printed on the back of all marriage licenses. By the time they get here it's too late.


----------



## FourtyPlus

What a page turner and I feel bad because I caught myself wondering about the next chapter as if it were a well written fictional book when it was in fact a real story. Quit your day job and write! What a talent!
Besides that, I learned a lot while reading it and I'm going to read it again a few times. Thank you so much for sharing this!


----------



## FourtyPlus

sigma1299 said:


> No it should be a must read printed on the back of all marriage licenses. By the time they get here it's too late.


I was thinking about this the other day: what am I going to tell our daugther when she gets married one day? What can I do to prevent this from happening to her or the man she marries?

How many spouses would have thought twice had they known the full extend of the damage they were about to cause and all the consequences associated with it?

How many marriages could have been saved?


----------



## Almostrecovered

even if you educate people you still can't stop infidelity

now that doesnt mean you should stop trying

I think a marital check up every so often is a good thing to do (like what I'm using my DDay anniversary for now). I would recommend that first and foremost. The ability to keep open and honest communication at the forefront will help keep complacency and resentment at arm's length.


----------



## sigma1299

I've been wondering if I could turn what I did into a teachable experience for my kids or not. I think I can, but fortunately I have a while to figure it out as our oldest is 8. 

Even if I can though everyone has to get their own scars and bruises in life. I'd love to help my kids avoid this particular set of experiences but you can't keep life from happening. I think all you can really do is use it to reiterate to them how it can happen to anyone under any set of circumstances and to always have and maintain good solid boundaries.


----------



## FourtyPlus

sigma1299 said:


> I've been wondering if I could turn what I did into a teachable experience for my kids or not. I think I can, but fortunately I have a while to figure it out as our oldest is 8.
> 
> Even if I can though everyone has to get their own scars and bruises in life. I'd love to help my kids avoid this particular set of experiences but you can't keep life from happening. I think all you can really do is use it to reiterate to them how it can happen to anyone under any set of circumstances and to always have and maintain good solid boundaries.


I'm a strong believer that no matter how bad the experience there is always something to be learned. Our daugther was 11 at the time and she was RIGHT THERE. She has matured immensely through this, which I wish I could have spared her but I believe she came out taking something away from it that she otherwise wouldn't have:
She's 14 now and has had a boyfriend for almost 2 years. It's only a text message type of relationship. Some of her girlfriends told her she needed a "satellite boy friend" because she goes to a different school than her boyfriend. This upset her very much because she knows it leads to a lot of hurt. She knows this because that's what Mommy did and she doesn't want to go down that road. She hasn't been able to tell me "I don't want to be like you and cheat", but she knows that I know that's what she wanted to say and she knows that I understand.


----------



## I Know

Almostrecovered said:


> I think a marital check up every so often is a good thing to do (like what I'm using my DDay anniversary for now). I would recommend that first and foremost. .


Almost: What do you have in mind for this marital checkup? 

I just got back from a few days at my inlaws. I did this to make wife happy. I hated every minute of it but did not let that show at all. I think the marriage is good. 

But is it? How do YOU go about checking on your marriage health?


----------



## Almostrecovered

I Know said:


> Almost: What do you have in mind for this marital checkup?
> 
> I just got back from a few days at my inlaws. I did this to make wife happy. I hated every minute of it but did not let that show at all. I think the marriage is good.
> 
> But is it? How do YOU go about checking on your marriage health?


sorry for the late reply as I have been enjoying my Xmas time with family lately and haven't been on here much this week.


as to how I check on the marriage?

My wife and I are at a point where we can communicate about issues in a straight forward manner without throwing up defensive walls or casting blame. (well most of the time anyways, it's impossible to be perfect on this...) It also helps that we better understand how the other communicates. Thus, we put aside some time to address concerns, issues and go over the major points of a marriage and see if either one of us are happy. (sex, children, money, time, etc)


----------



## I Know

Almostrecovered said:


> sorry for the late reply as I have been enjoying my Xmas time with family lately and haven't been on here much this week.
> 
> 
> as to how I check on the marriage?
> 
> My wife and I are at a point where we can communicate about issues in a straight forward manner without throwing up defensive walls or casting blame. (well most of the time anyways, it's impossible to be perfect on this...) It also helps that we better understand how the other communicates. Thus, we put aside some time to address concerns, issues and go over the major points of a marriage and see if either one of us are happy. (sex, children, money, time, etc)


No problem. it is good to relax a bit. 

What you say makes sense on a theoretical level. What I find in my personal and professional life is that unless we make a specific commitment to timing and agenda, that these things that would in theory be great to do, just get pushed aside in the hubbubb of everyday life. So, I was not very clear w/ my question. 

What I mean is... 
How often do you have the checkup? 
is it scheduled every day? Every week? or do you just kind of wing it? 

And what is the agenda when you do these? Do you just ask each other about improvements to the marriage? Ask about what is on each others minds? 

I like the idea of a checkup. I am just looking for ideas on how it might actually work in practice. 

Your ability to overcome the challenges in your marriage is inspiring. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## CantePe

This thread made me cry. Not in a bad way either.


----------



## Almostrecovered

so why are you copying bits from this and posting them?


----------



## Sindo

He stopped at 30. That just so happens to be the post count needed for the private members section.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Sindo said:


> He stopped at 30. That just so happens to be the post count needed for the private members section.


good catch


----------



## budda

I like your style I did similiar things but time will tell if it works out. I am so happy to read your story it has given me so many insights into my problem and some ideas to try. Thankyou


----------



## Complexity

Amazing story, my biggest fear was her emotional attachment with the OM so I'm glad you both worked through it. Though one thing I never understood with many betrayed spouses is the proceeding arousal they get picturing their wives with other men. I get a COMPLETELY different reaction.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Complexity said:


> Amazing story, my biggest fear was her emotional attachment with the OM so I'm glad you both worked through it. Though one thing I never understood with many betrayed spouses is the proceeding arousal they get picturing their wives with other men. I get a COMPLETELY different reaction.


damned if I know but the desire has passed (and apparently I am not the only one based on some PM's)


----------



## Almostrecovered

heishine said:


> I'm also waiting.



If you want I can make up a story about the OM stalking me in prison


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> If you want I can make up a story about the OM stalking me in prison


Is that piss of **** stalking you too?


----------



## myelw316

I really appreciated reading your story. Gives me a lot to think about.


----------



## Almostrecovered

it faded thankfully, we both look back at that period and say to ourselves, wtf were we thinking?

it didnt go any further than meeting other couples- I think it made us realize it was a bad idea (so many couples trying to throw on a swinging band aid)


----------



## Almostrecovered

my thoughts on swinging now are the same as communism- looks good on paper, doesn't work in practice


----------



## Honeystly

Almostrecovered, thanks for sharing your story. It makes me glad that some of these tragedies do have a happy ending. I keep thinking how much I wish my husband felt sorry for what he did.... It's his birthday today (we're a week apart) and he's most likely out with OW. I'm glad that people like your wife see the err of their ways and do not sacrifice a family for their own selfish reasons. Congratulations on your effort, it obviously paid off


----------



## Almostrecovered

Thanks honey

after watching The Descendants together yesterday I was able to watch my wife's facial expressions on certain events, you could actually see her wincing at the trickle truth and gaslighting and other such common things that waywards do. It was comforting knowing she understands completely how fvcked up she once was and how wrong it was and how she has changed since then.


----------



## AngryandUsed

buddy, I envy you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

AR,

I never read your story in its entirety before. Must be because I hate miniseries'. Kidding.

While our stories have much different events one thing they share is that we both did what we had to in order to achieve real reconciliation without having access to sites like TAM or some of the books out there now. That's one of the things I find interesting is how some can trudge through and do things relatively correctly and yet others can receive proper advice and muck it up anyway.

I'm glad things are still going well for you and your W. The 99% comment was really perfect btw.


----------



## Almostrecovered

dammit I'm making this into a book


(beer bravado, don't take me seriously)


----------



## lovemylife26

AR, I must say thank you for sharing your story. I cried in a good way, it was very touching. 
BTW reading your story I did figure out what you were talking about FB now. I haven't snapped yet but almost there to do it, more for clouser, if that makes sense. And I plan on telling him that I'm going to do this as we have been so opened about everything.


----------



## Mavash.

AR upon recommendation of a friend I read your story and it was very touching. While infidelity wasn't part of my bad marriage equation the trauma that follows is similar. I got a lot out of your story because while I didn't cheat I was the one that caused hurt to my husband and sometimes I forget how deep those wounds go. He doesn't share that with me but I see evidence that it's there. We are healing but it's a slow process.

Anyway just letting you know that there is purpose behind you putting this out there for people like me to read.

Thank you.


----------



## Almostrecovered

many thanks for the kind words


----------



## lovelygirl

I read your story within 2 nights [because it was a bit long lol]

I was impressed by the way you had described it. 
I loved all the details you included, all what you went through and how you felt... everything touched me! 


You have been very strong though. I don't know if I could handle it if I were you.

Thanx for sharing it and it's good to hear that you and her are on good terms again!


----------



## lovelygirl

I read your story within 2 nights [because it was a bit long lol]

I was impressed by the way you had described it. 
I loved all the details you included, all what you went through and how you felt... everything touched me! 


You have been very strong though. I don't know if I could handle it if I were you.

Thanx for sharing it and it's good to hear that you and her are on good terms again!


----------



## Almostrecovered

so nice you said it twice


----------



## lovelygirl

haha. 
oops double post!


----------



## happymrs

Thank you for sharing your story, I'm glad it ended well. 
I have a long marriage, which recently has kicked into high gear, things are better than they've ever been, more in love, etc. Recently my husband and I have each worked to improve ourselves and made great strides. I've been nervous that other women would take notice of him, and he's scoffed at the notion...until this past weekend when he had a woman come on to him(she didn't know I was in the car). I know human is human and poor judgement can take over, and I've seen too much infidelity around me with friends, the hurt and pain. I don't want that. Thanks for the information. I'm opening my eyes a little more. I'm going to have to be a bit proactive...but not sure exactly how.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Start with talking about boundaries and what each other finds to be appropriate, be specific


----------



## ArabianKnight

Just read your story. 
- I feel sorry for your mother may god give her the peace she didnt have.
- you crtisized your mother for trying to get back to your father and here you are doing the same. your wife lied then lied then lied and made you look like crazy or its in your head, even she graped your head many times and looked you in eyes and still said lies. 
- may be and I say may you didnt get the full story from the whole thing.
- may be and just may be she regret and hate that you found out
- dont give no credit to her for whatever she did to fix marriage, when you buy a house with broken foundation it will always have crack or marks of the broken foundation even if you fix it. 
- the reason she defended you or defended her marriage because she didnt have an emotional affair, she only wanted the physical part of it by tell her self its ok since she never had it with others before and may be comparing her number to yours. 
- is she going to cheat in future, Ummmmm May be there is a great chance. 
- women can make any creature on earth believe what ever he likes by manipulating and crying and some tears here and there and act all nice and sweet. 
- Lets imagine just imagine that this week your wife traveling in airplane and she survive a crash on an island by herself and for some stupid reason the other man or may be different man was living in that island also. with some drinks and smokes, do you think your wife would cheat on you?

- lets assume you get sick or your bipolar came back... later i will continue


----------



## Almostrecovered

ArabianKnight said:


> later i will continue


please don't


----------



## pidge70

ArabianKnight said:


> Just read your story.
> - I feel sorry for your mother may god give her the peace she didnt have.
> - you crtisized your mother for trying to get back to your father and here you are doing the same. your wife lied then lied then lied and made you look like crazy or its in your head, even she graped your head many times and looked you in eyes and still said lies.
> - may be and I say may you didnt get the full story from the whole thing.
> - may be and just may be she regret and hate that you found out
> - dont give no credit to her for whatever she did to fix marriage, when you buy a house with broken foundation it will always have crack or marks of the broken foundation even if you fix it.
> - the reason she defended you or defended her marriage because she didnt have an emotional affair, she only wanted the physical part of it by tell her self its ok since she never had it with others before and may be comparing her number to yours.
> - is she going to cheat in future, Ummmmm May be there is a great chance.
> - women can make any creature on earth believe what ever he likes by manipulating and crying and some tears here and there and act all nice and sweet.
> - Lets imagine just imagine that this week your wife traveling in airplane and she survive a crash on an island by herself and for some stupid reason the other man or may be different man was living in that island also. with some drinks and smokes, do you think your wife would cheat on you?
> 
> - lets assume you get sick or your bipolar came back... later i will continue


Why would you even post such tripe when AR and his wife are doing so well?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Verushkita

thanks for sharing, what the other posters said, you did an amazing job sharing your story and i hope it helps many.

maybe me too, i'm suspicious that i have a WH. i have no concrete proof. but i have good reason to be suspicious, condom in traveling bag, texts with an old HS friend, in those texts both referred to themselves as "mutual crushes with bad timing", OW calling him "BABE" in discovered texts, staying out til the next day and coming home drunk to oblivion, and an overnight stay at a hotel for a class 40 minutes from our home.

hmmmm, paranoid much? i have a bad feeling.

but thank you for sharing your experience, i hope you and your wife are continuing with much success.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Wow you have some major red flags, please start your own thread so we can help


----------



## Verushkita

AlmostRecovered, I'm guessing your last post was directed at. Believe me, I've tried to start writing it all up, and then I end up deleting what I've wrote. I'm all over the place right now, I tend to go off on tangents. I started to post on BC (babycenter.com); I use to go there a lot while I was pregnant and during IVF. I ran across someone's post where this site was mentioned and it has helped me so much already.

I see some classic signs and behaviours both on my part and my H.

Funny, on BC everyone refers to their husbands as DH - Darling Husband, even me, but know I'm educating myself with TAM's alphabet soup.

I will share my story, probably on a separate thread, not on yours (this one). I'm following your thread though and I'm rooting for you!


----------



## Verushkita

oh, i just saw Arabain Knight was banned, i didn't like what he said to you, but he did peak my interest, he must have gotten burned big time. i would have wanted to know his story.

again, i didn't like what he said or how he said it. obviously, there was no happy ending for him.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Verushkita said:


> oh, i just saw Arabain Knight was banned, i didn't like what he said to you, but he did peak my interest, he must have gotten burned big time. i would have wanted to know his story.
> 
> again, i didn't like what he said or how he said it. obviously, there was no happy ending for him.



he was banned for other reasons I'm guessing, he was somewhat rough around the edges so to speak


----------



## chillymorn

Thanks , nice post 

quite the story and I think it took some courage to post it so candidily.

I think it take an extreamily strong individual to be able to weather that sh*t storm.

impressive fortatuide


----------



## Almostrecovered

just saying hi to Lost in Indiana who has been reading this thread and leaving likes on every post...

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Lost in Indiana

Thanks for your story AR, as others have said your writing is amazing. I joined the forum after reading the first couple of pages, because I was so impressed with emotions involved, the similarities, and the wonderful responses of not only you but the other forum members.

I stumbled onto the forum through a Google search. Read some of posts and was stumped by the "alphabet soup" that was being used, and looked to figure out what all of the OMW, VAR, BS, and so on meant.. During this search I found your story.

Of course I know not all stories are the same, some are similar, others opposites. What struck me about your story, besides the wonderful way you tell it, was the emotions I felt as I read it. It is good to know there are others out there feeling what I feel. Your clues in the beginning that you two are still together was another reason to keep reading. I guess I needed to find a success story. Success I mean as in recovering, one way or the other. (So happy yours is turning out as it is.)

Thank you for sharing, thank you for your advice, thank you for knowledge. But most of all thank you for planting the seed in my mind to stay and figure out how I can find my way out of Limbo.


----------



## Almostrecovered

thanks for the thanks 

why dont you start a new thread and see what we can do to help?


----------



## Lost in Indiana

Trust me AR, I have thought about that especially since reading this post. As you know it takes thought, and time. The thoughts and time to think are there, the time to put them all down, isn't as easy to come up with. I will however think more about doing it though. Thanks for encouraging me to do it though.


----------



## Almostrecovered

well you dont have to write a novel like I have, you can start with a few paragraphs and answer questions as the thread progresses

most normal people do it that way anyways, lol


----------



## Lost in Indiana

I wish I could just start with a few paragraphs. Honestly don't know where to begin. Do I start a d-day and fill in details of other things later? The "things" that led up to my discovery? Or start with our life together? Hmmm more to think about...

I do realize just by thinking about it has opened my mind to things I missed in the past. Things you wrote about have done this also.


----------



## Almostrecovered

most people just say things like- Ive known wife for x years, married for x, have x kids, dday was on blank, breif history of attempts to R, etc


----------



## Almostrecovered

If shamwow gets off his ass maybe we will write a two part book


----------



## morituri

AR I don't know about shamwow but bandit.45 is doing a pretty good job of recovery over by the Going through divorce forum. Check it out.

Trenton, I know that this forum may not be your cup of tea but it nevertheless it is essential for every spouse to learn how to, at the very least, look for signs to MAYBE save his/her marriage.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I am reading Bandit's story, but I'm not sure if I want to include that orgy he is planning


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> If shamwow gets off his ass maybe we will write a two part book


You, shamwow and little red writing hood


----------



## lordmayhem

June 10 will be my 2 year antiversary, and I'm still feeling pretty badly off. Its my own fault though, I shouldn't have opened up those old emails and messages from her affair. It set me back almost 2 years. 

But at least I know just about everything now.


----------



## Retribution

I have a few questions for Almost that are relating to the past few years in review, and what his opinions are on certain subjects. I have hard questions because it's the hard questions that nobody seems to be able to answer successfully. I'm in limbo with my own marriage, and quite frankly I don't know if I want to keep it after my wife's affair. 

My history and your history share a ton of similarities by the way.

1. Is there a day that goes by where you don't think about or get reminded of the affair in some way?

2. Would your life have been better had the affair never happened? Why or why not? I ask because I really hate hearing the whole, "My wife's/husband's affair was the best thing that happened to our marriage." I really feel that even if my ideas of reconciliation are possible that the marriage would ultimately have been better without the infidelity. People can and do make marriages better without some awful experience to kick start it.

3. How exactly has staying married helped you? How has it been rewarding in any way? Do you feel that it was better than any other alternative? My question is related to keeping the source of your pain close, and how you feel it has affected your recovery.

4. By staying married how have your feelings towards your wife changed? Do you look at her positively the way you did before any knowledge of the affair? Can you be around her, have sex with her, experience life with her without experiencing the pain of the affair in any way? Do you hold her in a positive loving light, or is it the idea of marriage itself that you love? I'm really curious as to how a person can cheat and thus change the concept of who the are forever, and still be seen in a positive way by their spouse. Even building a "new marriage" just seems like the parties involved are lying to themselves about who they are and what they've done to each other, and yes, I'm suggesting that the past does matter. Maybe I'm wrong here, and if I am, then maybe, just maybe, there is hope for my marriage.

5. I believe "recovery" should include a full feeling of happiness and joy, something that was hopefully experienced before the affair. Something like that feeling that you are with somebody who loves you, and always has loved you as long as they've known you. How is this kind of recovery possible while memory persists? How can memory and emotion be completely seperated in this way? Is my concept of recovery even possible, or do I need to settle for recovery as something else? If recovery is something less than what I expect, then wouldn't it be better to divorce and find a new relationship with somebody who hasn't cheated on me? Somebody who I can have that feeling of a clean history and an untarnished love with? After writing this I see again why you call yourself AlmostRecovered.

6. How have your feelings towards your wife's lover changed over the years? Do you feel that justice is needed in any way? Despite the fact that your wife was the one who made the choice to hurt you, was he not party in the act as well? Did he not also cause harm by fooling around with a married woman? Is he not accountable for the pain he helped cause? I say this because I believe that justice can be a huge part of those being wronged finding peace. 

I have to add for those who are reading that Hysterical Bonding isn't always positive. My wife and I went throught the same process, and it was absolutely awful for me. I was plagued by thoughts of her being with him during EVERY instance of sex with her, yet I needed the physical contact to keep the feelings of rejection for her affair away. I eventually started watching porn and masturbating just so I had a way to kill my libido, to keep her from touching me so much, and to keep the feelings of craziness away. That was hell too. Talk about a mess of triggers and no percievable way out. I hate this. Suicide has often crossed my mind as a way to just relieve this awful pain, though it's not as often now that I'm 1 1/2 years out. I often wonder if she's worth putting up with this pain for. I'm leaning towards no.

I commend you, Almost, for the work you've done on your marriage, your honesty here on the forums, your ability to write a complete and comprehensive sentence, and your help you've given others. Please note that I've done a similar post elsewhere because I really want answers to these questions by those who claim recovery, and I invite anyone who has such claims to respond as well.


----------



## Almostrecovered

thank you for taking the time to write out such a detailed response and I will be happy to answer those questions 

your timing is a bad however, as I have a ton of orders to do from the 3 day weekend today


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> June 10 will be my 2 year antiversary, and I'm still feeling pretty badly off. Its my own fault though, I shouldn't have opened up those old emails and messages from her affair. It set me back almost 2 years.
> 
> But at least I know just about everything now.


LM

You have helped so many here and I truly wish you will start a thread for YOU, even though you are an "expert" like the rest of us regulars, I think having outside opinion may be of great benefit to you.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I will answer one question at a time as I have the time to do it



Retribution said:


> 1. Is there a day that goes by where you don't think about or get reminded of the affair in some way?








no there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about it

but then again there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think of my mother and she's been dead for 17 years now. But it's not like I break down crying thinking about it. 

of course, I visit TAM every day to help others so in a sense I keep the affair to the forefront of my mind by my own doing. But as I stated at the beginning of the thread, there is a "healthy detachment" about it. I'm not wrought with emotions when I reflect upon it. 

That said, I still have that occasion moment of of either anger or depression or fear or what have you. I still have that fantasy of going back to change things. But they don't last long and have become less and less frequent.

But frankly, I don't want to "forget it"

I respect myself too much to let that happen and become ignorant


----------



## Almostrecovered

Retribution said:


> 2. Would your life have been better had the affair never happened? Why or why not? I ask because I really hate hearing the whole, "My wife's/husband's affair was the best thing that happened to our marriage." I really feel that even if my ideas of reconciliation are possible that the marriage would ultimately have been better without the infidelity. People can and do make marriages better without some awful experience to kick start it.


well just like I dont have a time machine, I also dont have the Silders portal (crappy scifi show from the 90's where people traveled to parallel universes

but I can tell you that things would be different, some better some worse


1) I think our sex life would still have improved- my wife was hitting her sexual peak and if she chose to get freaky solely with me instead of having the affair I think would have been receptive and just as bold in trying new things

2) I can't say if I would have lost the weight, I somewhat doubt it

3) I probably wouldn't be smoking now

4) But I just can't say if we would be communicating as well or as much or connecting emotionally like we can now. I suppose if she wanted a D or wanted MC or something along those lines I bet we could have had something similar but I just don't see that happening in that alternative universe. Things were blah but not terrible so I'm not sure if either one of us would have gotten the drive to put that into effect.


but ultimately I will never know, will I?

and to dwell on such possibilities is a fun exercise at times but mainly fruitless speculation

what happened happened and there's nothing I can do to change it, I made the best of a horrible situation


----------



## Almostrecovered

Retribution said:


> 3. How exactly has staying married helped you? How has it been rewarding in any way?


It's helped my kids for starters and as much as I don't think staying for the kids is a good reason by itself, it is most certainly a factor
It's been rewarding because we have something great
we "get" each other
we laugh at the same sh!t
we truly enjoy hanging out together
I look forward to seeing her after work and the weekends and she does for me
I ache for that body of hers and the sex is great not because of the frequency but because we know each others bodies' so well that we are experts on pleasing each other and it's truly a wonderful experience having someone who you can't keep your hands off of





Retribution said:


> Do you feel that it was better than any other alternative? My question is related to keeping the source of your pain close, and how you feel it has affected your recovery.



from my viewpoint I feel I am better off having R'd under the correct circumstances than to have D

would I have "healed" faster if I chose D?

yes, I think so
and I will never know if I would have found love again like I have now, and I won't claim it isn't possible because I believe we all have a chance to find to what we need/want/love but it wouldn't have been easy.

Not that I am choosing my wife for an easier path because in some ways it wasn't easier

but ultimately I think you are asking me- "was/is it worth it?"

I can answer yes, it was. BUT only because she made it worth it. 99% of the time she did the right things by me post Dday 
Not every WS does that, in fact, I think my wife is an exception rather than a rule.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Retribution said:


> 4. By staying married how have your feelings towards your wife changed? Do you look at her positively the way you did before any knowledge of the affair?


I don't trust her blindly anymore

which some would view as a bad thing, but I don't
and my view of her is positive in almost every aspect currently, it's almost as if she was possessed for a month and understanding the chemistry of an affair helps me realize that in many ways she was indeed a different person, but ultimately I do have to live with the knowledge that she chose to cross that line and cheat



Retribution said:


> Can you be around her, have sex with her, experience life with her without experiencing the pain of the affair in any way?


I don't get the pain so much anymore, I used to quite a lot and it took a while to let go of the fear and just enjoy myself and enjoy being with her sexually or just eating dinner or watching TV

I'm not blind to the fact that it all can go away, but I'm at a place now where I know I can't do anything about certain things in life and if something bad happens then well, at least I had some fun, had love and tried my best



Retribution said:


> Do you hold her in a positive loving light, or is it the idea of marriage itself that you love?


I prefer being happy over being married anyday, If I wasn't happy being married then I would get a D. I love being with her not the idea of marriage by itself. If she does something else to change that feeling I will not hesitate to file.



Retribution said:


> I'm really curious as to how a person can cheat and thus change the concept of who the are forever, and still be seen in a positive way by their spouse. Even building a "new marriage" just seems like the parties involved are lying to themselves about who they are and what they've done to each other, and yes, I'm suggesting that the past does matter. Maybe I'm wrong here, and if I am, then maybe, just maybe, there is hope for my marriage.



of course the past matters
of she did horrible things
she slept with a man whose wife was 38 weeks pregnant
she nearly destroyed our marriage 
she nearly destroyed our children's sense of security and well being
she nearly destroyed me


all in the name of selfishness
because she thought she needed more attention

and instead of asking me she went and got it elsewhere


if you're asking me if I can forget that, well I can't and I HATE the things she did and she chose to do 

but I don't hate her

why?

I also see she what she has done since
and I see what changes she has made to not only being a better person and wife but also to help me become someone better 

I'm not saying I was an awful person who did horrible things, nothing I did was nearly as devastating or horrible, but who the hell am I to hold myself in a better light when I have my own issues to be concerned about? Everyone one of us needs to focus on ourselves in what we need do to improve ourselves. We don't elevate ourselves by putting others down.

My wife IS a different person now
I am also a different person
It IS a new marriage
AND neither one of us will ever forget and we will learn from our prior decisions


----------



## Retribution

Thank you, Almost. You have some really good answers, and I really appreciate your responses. It's helping me put my marriage and situation into some perspective. 

I really don't want to waste my time with somebody I'll never be happy with, and I don't want to regret the time I spent in hell only to discover it wasn't going to end well for me anyways. You and I agree differently (not suggesting that one of us is more right than the other) on what is and isn't necessary for a happy relationship. I see now that I'll likely never be happy because I do miss that trust that I had for my wife. I miss the way I felt about my wife, she was my virgin bride and I her virgin husband. We were to live the rest of our lives, never experiencing another person sexually for as long as we were married. I loved her so much that other women lost their appeal. I haven't seen her that way for over 1 1/2 years, and I miss her desperately. I suppose it doesn't matter to me how she or I can/have changed for the better since the affair. The affair itself is too much for me. The betrayal too great. You, Almost, are certainly the acception and not the rule. I commend you and congratulate you for that.


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> LM
> 
> You have helped so many here and I truly wish you will start a thread for YOU, even though you are an "expert" like the rest of us regulars, I think having outside opinion may be of great benefit to you.


I've never started a thread on my situation because my situation is nothing compared to the heartbreaking horror stories here. They need the help much more than I and my heart goes out to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> I've never started a thread on my situation because my situation is nothing compared to the heartbreaking horror stories here. They need the help much more than I and my heart goes out to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


cut the crap my friend, your situation deserves just as much as attention as the rest of us


----------



## Almostrecovered

Retribution said:


> You and I agree differently (not suggesting that one of us is more right than the other) on what is and isn't necessary for a happy relationship.


funny you say this because it relates to my answer of number 5



Retribution said:


> 5. I believe "recovery" should include a full feeling of happiness and joy, something that was hopefully experienced before the affair. Something like that feeling that you are with somebody who loves you, and always has loved you as long as they've known you. How is this kind of recovery possible while memory persists? How can memory and emotion be completely seperated in this way? Is my concept of recovery even possible, or do I need to settle for recovery as something else? If recovery is something less than what I expect, then wouldn't it be better to divorce and find a new relationship with somebody who hasn't cheated on me? Somebody who I can have that feeling of a clean history and an untarnished love with? After writing this I see again why you call yourself AlmostRecovered.


To answer this I think we need to agree that we have fundamental differences in the way we view love and relationships

I'm a realist, I value logic and sensibility over romantic notions 

I don't believe in unconditional love
perhaps our children deserve that type of love and I can see having that love for God if you believe in that sort of thing

My favorite Shakespeare sonnet is number 130 as it describes how I feel about love:

_My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damask'd, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground:
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare. _

I don't glorify my wife
I don't make my relationship with her to be anything more than what it is

To me love is not static, it is dynamic and it changes

Sure I had those "ooey gooey" feelings like the rest of us do at the beginning, but a real relationship cannot survive solely on those feelings. It has to grow into something more tangible, more real and more malleable in order to last.

In fact those affair feelings that cheaters experience are very similar to those romantic notions of a new relationship. In a sense they aren't as "real" as an established relationship. There is no shared history, no strife that both of you have gone through together, affair partners don't see each other at their worst. They probably don't even hear each other fart.

As silly as the last statement seems, it is a truth. Real relationships are comfortable. Real relationships are so comfortable that one person feels safe enough to hurt the other. Think about a casual friend, if they do something that annoys you, you will usually stay reserved and be polite. In a comfortable relationship you don't go for such niceties and will argue or have spats or do things that you regret. 

So when you ask me if I can achieve full happiness and joy in a relationship post affair, I say that I don't think you can achieve that in any relationship.

Which isn't to say you shouldn't strive towards it or look to get what you want or need in a relationship or be happy most of the time.


----------



## Retribution

Almostrecovered said:


> cut the crap my friend, your situation deserves just as much as attention as the rest of us


Agreed.


----------



## Retribution

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm a realist, I value logic and sensibility over romantic notions


I too see myself as a realist. I believe in logic and sensibility. I also know that we as human-beings are inherently emotional creatures. It's part of who we are, barring sociopaths of course. Accepting our emotional nature is part of what I veiw as being "realistic". Too often I see realism bandied about as cold, unfeeling, Vulcan-like logic. If we always made the logical choice then I don't think any of us would stay in a coupling that has hurt us beyond the worth of the relationship. Affairs tend to hurt us in that way. I believe an affair is near the top of the list for bad-things-people-do-to-seriously-hurt-others. Our emotions for our wives, our marriage, our children, our faith, our whatever keep us and so many others put.



Almostrecovered said:


> To me love is not static, it is dynamic and it changes
> 
> Sure I had those "ooey gooey" feelings like the rest of us do at the beginning, but a real relationship cannot survive solely on those feelings.


I agree. I've been married for 12 years, and my marriage has had it's ups and downs. I'm not suggesting that recovery has the "ooey gooey" feelings. I'm talking about the deeper love that comes from being with your best friend for years. My love for my wife grew and changed in those years. I had come to appreciate her for who she was and I REALLY loved her faithfulness to me, for reasons too long to get into. Now that's gone, and I don't see how I can ever have that back as long as I'm with her. Perhaps our philosophy isn't so different as what we each value/valued about our marriages.



Almostrecovered said:


> So when you ask me if I can achieve full happiness and joy in a relationship post affair, I say that I don't think you can achieve that in any relationship.
> 
> Which isn't to say you shouldn't strive towards it or look to get what you want or need in a relationship or be happy most of the time.


I'm sure I should have written the "full happiness" part differently. I'm not suggesting a perfect happiness. I too believe that's impossible. I'm talking about being happy that I made the choice to stay, being happy that I have a good relationship, and an affair has made me question how real that was. I don't think that affairs happen just because there's some deficiency in the marriage. Deficiencies are present in every marriage yet every marriage isn't plagued with adultery. I think there are far more reasons for affairs than that. I believe my marriage was good before the affair, and that I had achieved a happiness worth having while I was there. How my wife and I change and grow through the aftermath of this tragedy is irrelevant for any future happiness because the pain I've experienced is too great to justify any "reward" I might get from this. Unlike you, I'm certain that my life would have been better had the affair never happened.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I never said my life/marriage would have been worse if the affair didn't happen

I said it would be different

and look, I'm not trying to convince you of anything or to feel what I feel. I'm just relaying what I went through so others can see that it is possible to get through such a painful episode in their lives and come out stronger. I fully understand that some people just aren't capable of having R even if the R is being done in a proper manner and it's nothing to be ashamed of if that is the case for you just as I have nothing to be ashamed of for choosing R.


----------



## Retribution

You're absolutely right.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Retribution said:


> 6. How have your feelings towards your wife's lover changed over the years? Do you feel that justice is needed in any way? Despite the fact that your wife was the one who made the choice to hurt you, was he not party in the act as well? Did he not also cause harm by fooling around with a married woman? Is he not accountable for the pain he helped cause? I say this because I believe that justice can be a huge part of those being wronged finding peace.


no change about how I feel about OM, I still think he's a fvckhead

that said, I may have changed about wanting to slash his tires, then kidnap him the parking lot when he goes to change the tire, drive him out to the woods to a pre-dug ditch where I can watch him beg for his life before I torture him, castrate him and then bury him alive ala the movie Casino when Joe Pesci is buried. I think I only want to slash his tires now.

If anything you've touched upon my biggest shame in the handling of the affair- botching the exposure to his wife. It's the one part where I have a bias on the board, I find myself pushing for exposure and having it done right as I screwed my own up royally. And it burns my butt OM likely got away with it. It ticks me off his wife just buried her head in the sand.


----------



## Retribution

You're absolutely right.

I suppose I'm just trying to wrap my head around how you're defining and accomplishing recovery.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Retribution said:


> You're absolutely right.
> 
> I suppose I'm just trying to wrap my head around how you're defining and accomplishing recovery.


It's like the Supreme court and obscenity

it's difficult to define, but you know it when you see it


----------



## Almostrecovered

Retribution said:


> I have to add for those who are reading that Hysterical Bonding isn't always positive. My wife and I went throught the same process, and it was absolutely awful for me. I was plagued by thoughts of her being with him during EVERY instance of sex with her, yet I needed the physical contact to keep the feelings of rejection for her affair away. I eventually started watching porn and masturbating just so I had a way to kill my libido, to keep her from touching me so much, and to keep the feelings of craziness away. That was hell too. Talk about a mess of triggers and no percievable way out. I hate this. Suicide has often crossed my mind as a way to just relieve this awful pain, though it's not as often now that I'm 1 1/2 years out. I often wonder if she's worth putting up with this pain for. I'm leaning towards no.


you remind me of a conversation I had with another poster by PM in regards to the mind fvck he had with sex and the fear he was experiencing as a result

For me I had some problems as well with mind movies during sex, particularly with oral since that was their thing, but I just pushed through it somehow. I just kept at it. Maybe it's that part of my psyche that I have (and share with others) that you and others don't have.

A lot of what is makes sex great stems from confidence. My confidence was shot but somehow I got to a point where I said to myself- "fvck this! I'm enjoying myself and dammit I'm better than OM!" Maybe I faked it til I made it, but my sexual confidence is sky high now. Maybe that's the element you are missing, that swagger. Maybe you won't get it back unless it is with someone else. I don't know, I wish I did.

But for pete's sake, if you are truly suicidal seek help now.


----------



## BigLiam

Glad you were able to push through the oral deal, AR.:allhail:


----------



## Retribution

Almostrecovered said:


> no change about how I feel about OM, I still think he's a fvckhead
> 
> that said, I may have changed about wanting to slash his tires, then kidnap him the parking lot when he goes to change the tire, drive him out to the woods to a pre-dug ditch where I can watch him beg for his life before I torture him, castrate him and then bury him alive ala the movie Casino when Joe Pesci is buried. I think I only want to slash his tires now.
> 
> If anything you've touched upon my biggest shame in the handling of the affair- botching the exposure to his wife. It's the one part where I have a bias on the board, I find myself pushing for exposure and having it done right as I screwed my own up royally. And it burns my butt OM likely got away with it. It ticks me off his wife just buried her head in the sand.


Your imagery here made me laugh. Thanks. :lol:

I'm not sure how you can do better when the person you're talking to doesn't believe a lick of what you're saying. Strong physical evidence often won't even budge some people. I guess I'm saying that you shouldn't beat yourself up too much here. Maybe you could have done better, maybe the d0uchebag's wife wouldn't have listened regardless what you showed/told her.

Also, I don't think I'm truly suicidal. I haven't made any actual attempts, and it's been about 6 months since I've put a loaded gun in my mouth. It just sounds so nice and peaceful sometimes. Thing is, I've got this belief that no matter what I do here it'll be the wrong choice. If I stay, then I'm staying with a cheating wh0re. If I leave, then I'm leaving my best choice for happiness. If I kill myself, then God is real and I'll burn in hell for it. If I don't, then I'm choosing a life of misery and woe with no reward when I'm done.


----------



## Almostrecovered

That's the very definition of depression- when you cant see a realistic future

Aside from suicide all of those futures can be happy ones, it's what you make of them

Get some help


----------



## Retribution

I wish I could. Help costs money. I've got none to spare. Hence I'm doomed to work this out on my own. You guys here have been a big help so far...barring the one thread I created, where I was being told that everything my wife and our former therapist now tell me is a lie, that I had to delete.

Thank you.


----------



## Almostrecovered

You give up too easy which I suppose is part of your depression 

Google free services in your area


----------



## snap

There must be a hotline where you live. They could provide some directions.


----------



## Encore DT

Almostrecovered - you really should write a novel. Your story is incredible...


----------



## Retribution

Almostrecovered said:


> You give up too easy which I suppose is part of your depression
> 
> Google free services in your area


A year and a half of hell is not giving up too easy. I'm still searching, or I wouldn't be here either.

Good advice though. I was unaware of anything free being possible.


----------



## Almostrecovered

No i mean giving up too easy on getting help for the depression


----------



## Retribution

You know. I've been told, by my therapist last year, and now here that I'm depressed. Interesting how I've tried to deny it. I don't know how that denial has served me, but it's what I've done. I've gone and made an appointment with my family doctor finally too. Yay for depression meds!


----------



## BigLiam

Retribution said:


> I wish I could. Help costs money. I've got none to spare. Hence I'm doomed to work this out on my own. You guys here have been a big help so far...barring the one thread I created, where I was being told that everything my wife and our former therapist now tell me is a lie, that I had to delete.
> 
> Thank you.



I was there 5 -6 years ago. Really, really down. So broke I slept on my firend's couch for two years while I dug out financlally. Cried on breaks while trying cases. It was horrendous.
But, you just keep fighting and inch by inch dig out. Many times I felt like just ending it.
You can beat this , retribution.My life is really nice now, I have a condo, two cats, a nice girlfriend and my kids love me.
One guy on the internet read my stuff and we started talking on the phone a lot. He really helped me and we are great frineds.
You'll meet some great folks on these sites, folks who care and who know what this feels like.
My XW has never confessed or apologized and never will. I don't care anymore. She is dead to me.
See your doc and take care of you. Progress is slow but it hapens.


----------



## GTA06

Almostrecovered: 
Sitting in my room I can't imagine how difficult it was for you to overcome this aspect .I have been following your story very closely and I really like the way you have turned things around for yourself.


----------



## kruppmart

Almostrecovered said:


> Originally Posted by Hijo
> Log into the account. In the upper right corner, click the little down arrow and go to "Account Settings".
> 
> On the account page, at the bottom is a link to download an archive. You may be asked to re-enter the password for the account. Depending upon the amount of data on the account, Facebook may take a while to collect the data and zip it up.
> 
> Between the time you request the archive and the time you actually download it, you need to watch the email account associated to the facebook account like a hawk.
> 
> FACEBOOK WILL EMAIL A NOTIFICATION TO THAT EMAIL THAT "YOUR ARCHIVE IS READY FOR DOWNLOAD" WHEN IT COMPLETES THE ZIP FILE. Be ready to kill that email and remove it from trash immediately.
> 
> So, before you snag an archive from facebook, make sure you have full, uninterrupted access to the associated email and your WS is not monitoring the email. (Asleep, at work, etc).


I did that with my STBXW FB account, but the archive is only a snapshot of the actual data ... I hoped it would have also deleted messages


----------



## Chaparral

Retribution said:


> You know. I've been told, by my therapist last year, and now here that I'm depressed. Interesting how I've tried to deny it. I don't know how that denial has served me, but it's what I've done. I've gone and made an appointment with my family doctor finally too. Yay for depression meds!


Great idea looking for free help. It is certainly available in my area.

Divorce works best if your wife wants to reconcile and you want to punish her. Whether or not you divorce you still have to deal with the pain. As a matter of fact I think the feelings of anger towards your spouse can be worse because then you also have a divorce to blame on them.

Statsitically, 35% of couples recover from infidelity. More if the husband cheats than the wife. However, 80% of couples that divorce wish they had stayed together and worked it out. The downside to divorce is devastating for most couples, financialy, emotionaly, devastated kids, etc.

There is much you can do for your self to improve your life whatever you decide to do.

In addition to meds. Excercise is the single greatest thing you can do. Weight lifting (not in excess) for me is like taking a be happy pill. Mentally, it stops almost all negative thoughts for awhile and litterally makes me feel good the next day too. It is just an attitude adjustment and a set of weights is relatively cheap. When you are straining and counting, balancing , trying not to get crushed(LOL) its hard to dwell on negative thoughts.

Books you need to read:

His Needs Her Needs, Five Love Languages, No More Mister Nice Guy,, Married Man Sex Life (Most Important)

You can be strong and lead your family out of this mess. If it were easy the girl scouts could do it. ( Just an old construction saying so lay off any political correctness)

Good luck and prayers


----------



## Almostrecovered

I dunno chap, Girls Scouts can sell overpriced cookies


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> I dunno chap, Girls Scouts can sell overpriced cookies


LOL I was really irate when I found out my daughters troop only got $.50 per box. We sold the hell out of those cookies though.


----------



## Almostrecovered

it's a racket but they are delicious


----------



## Retribution

Girl Scout cookies are quite delicious. I rather enjoy them. Think I'll have to put this one off as you guys have convinced me to turn over a new leaf on my health.

I feel bad putting all this on Almost's thread. Maybe I should start my own. Just give the word, Almost, and I'm outta here.

chapparal, thank you for the suggestions and the statistics. Where did you find those, by the way? I've tried looking for stuff like that and most of what I find seems unreliable at best, and it's never consistent with the stats I found previous. Stats are almost an obsession with me right now. I really want to know what my chances are. From those stats, it's looking grim.

The one stat I don't understand is the 80% who divorced and wished they hadn't. I don't get that impression from the divorcees here, or the ones I know, but I'm no statistician either.

I did try exercise in the beginning of this whole mess. It was always with my wife. I was so dependent on her that I couldn't be seperated from her for almost any reason. I was like a little puppy dog that needed attention. Pathetic. I quickly let depression and apathy stop that for me though. Now I'm 20 pounds heavier than when I started this whole mess, and the soda addiction's not helping there either. It really is time to get the ol' ticker beating again.

While my wife does want reconciliation, she's been awesome (if you can call an adulterer awesome), I don't love her anymore. Not after what she did to our formerly good marriage. I've seen far too many people in my life stay after an affair, and it just doesn't work out. Sure they claim happiness and a good marriage. One that's "better and more fulfilling than before the affair", but it never works out like that in the end. Most of those couples I've seen end up divorcing years later. One couple I recall, as I was growing up, seemed so happy. Despite that outward happiness I had no clue why, as a child, I felt severe wierdness with this couple until I found out their "first" child was really just the result of adultery with another man. Then out of the blue one day, 20+ years after her first adultery, former-adulterating-wife runs off and starts slvtting around with more strange men. The husband was devastated. She ended up commiting suiced 3 years later and he died of a heart attack 5 years later. I saw how the past 20-30 years of his life were wasted in an instant. "Happy" memories with no real current basis for them to flourish on. He went on to marry a wonderful woman, but that only lasted for 3 years before death took him. He was in his late 40's. I don't want that. I saw my wife's grandparents go through something similar, and I'm now watching similar problems distance my wife's parents from each other as well. I suppose this is the biggest reason I'm so sceptical of any real recovery from an affair.

On the books, maybe they'll help me with my future relationships, though I'm not even sure I want another relationship. Five Love Languages was good. My wife and I read it a few year before the affair. I just wish it had done more to stop an affair. Women just have a knack for making me feel lower than I ever had before. Before my wife, it was a girlfriend who led me on and then told me that she owed her abusive ex another chance. Talk about feeling low when you lose your love to somebody who hits, yells, and treats women poorly. 

Enough of my problems though. Time to end them and get on with making a happy life.


----------



## Almostrecovered

well I do charge a rental fee for camping in my thread


----------



## Complexity

Retribution said:


> Girl Scout cookies are quite delicious. I rather enjoy them. Think I'll have to put this one off as you guys have convinced me to turn over a new leaf on my health.
> 
> I feel bad putting all this on Almost's thread. Maybe I should start my own. Just give the word, Almost, and I'm outta here.
> 
> chapparal, thank you for the suggestions and the statistics. Where did you find those, by the way? I've tried looking for stuff like that and most of what I find seems unreliable at best, and it's never consistent with the stats I found previous. Stats are almost an obsession with me right now. I really want to know what my chances are. From those stats, it's looking grim.
> 
> The one stat I don't understand is the 80% who divorced and wished they hadn't. I don't get that impression from the divorcees here, or the ones I know, but I'm no statistician either.
> 
> I did try exercise in the beginning of this whole mess. It was always with my wife. I was so dependent on her that I couldn't be seperated from her for almost any reason. I was like a little puppy dog that needed attention. Pathetic. I quickly let depression and apathy stop that for me though. Now I'm 20 pounds heavier than when I started this whole mess, and the soda addiction's not helping there either. It really is time to get the ol' ticker beating again.
> 
> While my wife does want reconciliation, she's been awesome (if you can call an adulterer awesome), I don't love her anymore. Not after what she did to our formerly good marriage. I've seen far too many people in my life stay after an affair, and it just doesn't work out. Sure they claim happiness and a good marriage. One that's "better and more fulfilling than before the affair", but it never works out like that in the end. Most of those couples I've seen end up divorcing years later. One couple I recall, as I was growing up, seemed so happy. Despite that outward happiness I had no clue why, as a child, I felt severe wierdness with this couple until I found out their "first" child was really just the result of adultery with another man. Then out of the blue one day, 20+ years after her first adultery, former-adulterating-wife runs off and starts slvtting around with more strange men. The husband was devastated. She ended up commiting suiced 3 years later and he died of a heart attack 5 years later. I saw how the past 20-30 years of his life were wasted in an instant. "Happy" memories with no real current basis for them to flourish on. He went on to marry a wonderful woman, but that only lasted for 3 years before death took him. He was in his late 40's. I don't want that. I saw my wife's grandparents go through something similar, and I'm now watching similar problems distance my wife's parents from each other as well. I suppose this is the biggest reason I'm so sceptical of any real recovery from an affair.
> 
> On the books, maybe they'll help me with my future relationships, though I'm not even sure I want another relationship. Five Love Languages was good. My wife and I read it a few year before the affair. I just wish it had done more to stop an affair. Women just have a knack for making me feel lower than I ever had before. Before my wife, it was a girlfriend who led me on and then told me that she owed her abusive ex another chance. Talk about feeling low when you lose your love to somebody who hits, yells, and treats women poorly.
> 
> Enough of my problems though. Time to end them and get on with making a happy life.


I'm so sorry ret  

whether you stay married or divorce I pray you find happiness again.


----------



## AMU

Almostrecovered: Thanks for taking the time to tell your story - I found it inspirational. As a WW seeking reconciliation, it lifts my heart to see your story and where you are today. Thank you.


----------



## Almostrecovered

you're welcome

recently someone asked me privately, "how my R was going"

I answered that it's going so well that I don't even think of it as "being in R" anymore

weird to feel "normal" again


----------



## AngryandUsed

If normalcy is weird, why aren't we normal?


----------



## Almostrecovered




----------



## Almostrecovered

well, I'll be damned!!

3 year anniversary of the affair came and went yesterday and I completely forgot about it until this morning


----------



## jh52

Congrats AR !!


----------



## Almostrecovered

well now because I am making a big deal of it I certainly won't forget 3 year anniversary of Dday 

which is fine because we use it as our "marital tune up day"


----------



## AngryandUsed

Almostrecovered said:


> well now because I am making a big deal of it I certainly won't forget 3 year anniversary of Dday
> 
> which is fine because we use it as our "marital tune up day"


Is it?:smthumbup:


----------



## Affaircare

WAIT! There was an affair?? 

LOL I know I was asked recently when my affair was, and I had to dig up a calendar to figure it out. Even though I write on forums like this every day, I don't really "think about it." So ... congrats (I think) :ezpi_wink1:


----------



## iheartlife

Now that's what I call R! :smthumbup:


----------



## carpenoctem

Hello, *Almostremarried.*


----------



## Almostrecovered

okay I am a complete and utter idiot

I'm off by a month, it was 8/31 not 7/31


how freakin embarrassing


----------



## dymo

When the real anniversary comes around, a writeup on year 3 would be nice.


----------



## iheartlife

I stick to what I said


----------



## carpenoctem

Almostrecovered said:


> okay I am a complete and utter idiot
> 
> I'm off by a month, it was 8/31 not 7/31
> 
> 
> how freakin embarrassing




*WRONG* memory of that *date *can be equated to mostly overcoming that* issue,
RIGHT?*


----------



## Almostrecovered

[B]carpenoctem[/B] said:


> *WRONG* memory of that *date *can be equated to mostly overcoming that* issue,
> RIGHT?*


Yes I suppose youre all correct, was just hopeful that the date came and went without a trigger but now it's still pending


I think I'll be fine anyways


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> okay I am a complete and utter idiot
> 
> I'm off by a month, it was 8/31 not 7/31
> 
> 
> how freakin embarrassing


Alright, we'll do the Picard facepalm without the epic fail. 










Anyway, congrats on your progress!


----------



## Almostrecovered

so this past week I've noticed that my wife was extra clingy, been cuddling up to me a lot, lots of verbal love affirmations on the phone, longer hugs than usual, etc

Then yesterday afternoon after I was home for 10 minutes and we're sitting on the patio she was just staring at me with a silly grin and says, "I just want to say that I am truly lucky to have such a wonderful and great husband like you, you truly make me happy and I love you so much."

I was taken aback a bit and as much as I wanted to accept the compliment gracefully after saying "thanks honey I love you too" I asked why the rush of sentimentality?

"Because I know the 3 year mark is coming up and I just want you to know that you are the only one for me and I don't ever want to do something so stupid and hurtful like that again."


As much as my wife has been pro-active during our recovery and as much as she has done the heavy lifting, this may have been the 1st time she has broached the subject by herself in over 2 years. Mind you, she is never shy or defensive over talking about it when I need to talk about it or bring it up but after the year of hell, you could tell it wasn't on her mind as much as it is on mine. 

So, for her to be proactively affectionate knowing that I might be triggering due to the date coming up AND the fact that I really am not triggering about the date says a lot about where we are.


I have been asking myself all day, "Am I healed?"

I think I am


----------



## SomedayDig

A million likes AR!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

SomedayDig said:


> A million likes AR!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


that will make southernwife so jealous


----------



## SomedayDig

LMAO!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

Almostrecovered said:


> so this past week I've noticed that my wife was extra clingy, been cuddling up to me a lot, lots of verbal love affirmations on the phone, longer hugs than usual, etc
> 
> Then yesterday afternoon after I was home for 10 minutes and we're sitting on the patio she was just staring at me with a silly grin and says, "I just want to say that I am truly lucky to have such a wonderful and great husband like you, you truly make me happy and I love you so much."
> 
> I was taken aback a bit and as much as I wanted to accept the compliment gracefully after saying "thanks honey I love you too" I asked why the rush of sentimentality?
> 
> "Because I know the 3 year mark is coming up and I just want you to know that you are the only one for me and I don't ever want to do something so stupid and hurtful like that again."
> 
> 
> As much as my wife has been pro-active during our recovery and as much as she has done the heavy lifting, this may have been the 1st time she has broached the subject by herself in over 2 years. Mind you, she is never shy or defensive over talking about it when I need to talk about it or bring it up but after the year of hell, you could tell it wasn't on her mind as much as it is on mine.
> 
> So, for her to be proactively affectionate knowing that I might be triggering due to the date coming up AND the fact that I really am not triggering about the date says a lot about where we are.
> 
> 
> I have been asking myself all day, "Am I healed?"
> 
> I think I am


^^^^^^
This made me cry...happy tears!!!


----------



## BjornFree

I think it takes a brave man to reconcile. I wish you the best for the future ,friend.


----------



## WyshIknew

From page 7.

I must've asked the same questions at least 50 times, waiting to see if the story would change and she had intercourse as well.




From page 5

Instead of the calm manner in which we were discussing issues, she got emotional and got angry that I would even imply that STD testing was needed. 

Her-"It was only oral to begin with and OM has only been with his wife in the past 10 years."


Don't know if this is a typo Almost but 'only oral to begin with' implies to me that something else came after.

I probably shouldn't mention it but it just puzzled me.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Just bad syntax


----------



## that_girl

Time to change the name!


----------



## WyshIknew

Almostrecovered said:


> Just bad syntax


Cool.

Again, sorry for bringing it up but I was confused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Dday part 1 anniversary today 

Been mostly tired due my son having a sleepover party last night and somewhat tipsy while watching the Eagles somehow win again


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Question by AlmostRecovered*
> 
> I have been asking myself all day, "Am I healed?"


If your reply below is still occurring you are recovering very nicely and your marriage is better than a lot of marriages that I know that never had infidelity to deal with.

for only three years you are way ahead of the game. Three years down and 30-40 years to go.







> *Reply by Almostrecovered:*
> 
> It's helped my kids for starters and as much as I don't think staying for the kids is a good reason by itself, it is most certainly a factor
> 
> It's been rewarding because we have something great
> we "get" each other
> 
> we laugh at the same sh!t
> 
> we truly enjoy hanging out together
> 
> I look forward to seeing her after work and the weekends and she does for me
> I ache for that body of hers and the sex is great not because of the frequency but because we know each others bodies' so well that we are experts on pleasing each other and it's truly a wonderful experience having someone who you can't keep your hands off of


----------



## Almostrecovered

taking an extended break guys, not sure if and when I will be back-

my goodbye - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/social-spot/57181-just-cant-seem-hit-reply-button-anymore.html


----------



## HappyKaty

AR,

A friend suggested I read your thread, and I am enthralled that I opted to do so.

Thank you, so much, for sharing your beautifully written, and detailed, account of problems in your marriage. Every post spoke volumes to me.

Best wishes to you and the Mrs.


----------



## LongWalk

Great story AR! You're a good writer. Hope you are still at it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

So... for my 10,000th post!
(altho, it's probably closer to 12K when you consider how many threads get deleted)

Tomorrow is my 15th anniversary -or as I like to call it, "11 years of wedded bliss"

My wife and I are still in a "good place" and we still love each other very much. We even still hold hands just watching TV and laugh together a lot. The memory of the affair and 2 years after are starting to fade but they will never be fully forgotten. I just don't wake up thinking it about first thing nor do I dwell anymore. I can't recall the last time I triggered.

Successful R is possible as long as both the WS and BS have what it takes. I hope I continue to be an example of this.


----------



## alte Dame

I just finished reading this, AR, and have to say that it has been quite a journey for you and your wife. The human condition is filled with tragedy and joy and everything in between, and if we are very lucky, the joy carries us through. How wonderful to see that you have managed to find so much of it for yourself and to help so many people here with all you have learned.


----------



## Almostrecovered

It took you THAT long to read my masterpiece?!!

Harrummphh!!


but thanks for the kind words


----------



## alte Dame

Sorry  I'm slow....


----------



## Almostrecovered

alte Dame said:


> I'm slow.


but very kind and insightful

so I'll let this one offense pass


----------



## alte Dame

I'll say three Hail Marys. Hope that's OK. (I always get the Our Fathers mixed up.)


----------



## Almostrecovered

no self flagellation?


----------



## alte Dame

Hair shirt? I can do that. It's a bit tough with the hump back, but I'll manage.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Deal!


----------



## Chaparral

Bumping this thread


----------



## thummper

Hi AR, I read your "masterpiece" a few months back. Your writing does keep a person on the edge of their seat. lol But, I've not seen any updates on you and the mrs. How have things been going for you? I seem to remember that she had been having "closure" issues, and you put a quick stop to that. Is she being a good girl? (Sorry. I have a few granddaughters and I'm used to using that expression. ) I hope that everything is going well for you two. I developed a real appreciation for your love and patience with her. I don't think I could have done it. Lots of luck.


----------



## southern wife

Chaparral said:


> Bumping this thread


AR has been MIA for many months now. Not sure if he's coming back, but why "bump" a 7 month old thread? :scratchhead:


Just curious....


----------



## convert

wow a great read.
I wish that avatar would sit still.


----------



## 86857

Chaparral said:


> Bumping this thread


Glad you bumped it Chaparral. Hadn't seen it. 
What a writer you are AR but I suppose you've been told so often it's a yawn by now.
And what a great insight into R and the whole business of affairs. 
What was oddest for me though is that from the first chapter you described your W as very quiet socially, she was a virgin when you met and so on. From your description I found it VERY hard to get my head around the fact that as you revealed your story she would turn out to be a WS. She just didn't strike me as the type. Just shows - you can't generalise about affairs or anything else in life, or assume anything, or judge a book by its cover. I'm reminded of the expression, "It's the quiet ones you have to look out for."
Turns out my WS was the quiet type too. :scratchhead:

Geez I'm all over these boards today. Having an 'addicted to TAM day' - better sign off. 

Thank you AR.


----------



## Wolf9

OP is very good writer, Honest & excellent read


----------



## Almostrecovered

was doing a drive by look see and saw this got bumped

(to answer SW's question- please do bump it whenever you wish as people may learn from my experience)


just figured I'd update since I don't come here very often at all anymore (just found hanging out in this sort of forum got depressing, no offense)

coming up on 16 years of marriage next weekend, doing as well as ever for the most part
communication between us is still very open and the passive aggression has all but halted (just a little guilt trips here and there)
spend most of our free time together and we have a very active and fun summer planned
My wife's MS has reared its ugly head recently and she's developed double vision as a result but she's trudging through the effects as best as she can but as you can figure it can be rough dealing with such a condition
personally-I'm at the lowest weight that I have been in close to 20 years and am feeling very energetic 

I just turned 44 this past week and when I look at my friend's marriages I can just sense that we have something better in most cases. Theirs often seem cold and stale on the exterior, which if it looks like that on the outside then you know it is worse on the inside. We do get comments to "get a room" just because my wife will kiss me or hold hands when we visit with other married couples. I feel sorry for them but I do get a mild kick of flaunting the fact that we still dig each other as much as we do.


so that's the update in a nutshell

the affair hardly crosses my mind now, it's helpful that I don't frequent here I think, It was just time to move on.


best of luck to all of you, even Amp, maybe I'll stop by again next year


----------



## tom67

Almostrecovered said:


> was doing a drive by look see and saw this got bumped
> 
> (to answer SW's question- please do bump it whenever you wish as people may learn from my experience)
> 
> 
> just figured I'd update since I don't come here very often at all anymore (just found hanging out in this sort of forum got depressing, no offense)
> 
> coming up on 16 years of marriage next weekend, doing as well as ever for the most part
> communication between us is still very open and the passive aggression has all but halted (just a little guilt trips here and there)
> spend most of our free time together and we have a very active and fun summer planned
> My wife's MS has reared its ugly head recently and she's developed double vision as a result but she's trudging through the effects as best as she can but as you can figure it can be rough dealing with such a condition
> personally-I'm at the lowest weight that I have been in close to 20 years and am feeling very energetic
> 
> I just turned 44 this past week and when I look at my friend's marriages I can just sense that we have something better in most cases. Theirs often seem cold and stale on the exterior, which if it looks like that on the outside then you know it is worse on the inside. We do get comments to "get a room" just because my wife will kiss me or hold hands when we visit with other married couples. I feel sorry for them but I do get a mild kick of flaunting the fact that we still dig each other as much as we do.
> 
> 
> so that's the update in a nutshell
> 
> the affair hardly crosses my mind now, it's helpful that I don't frequent here I think, It was just time to move on.
> 
> 
> best of luck to all of you, even Amp, maybe I'll stop by again next year


Good news is a commodity here.
That's great, sorry about the MS.


----------



## carpenoctem

AR:

Admit it: you now successfully write erotica under a pseudonym, and make lots of money.


----------



## southern wife

AR, thanks so much for the update. Glad to hear things are going so well in your marriage.


----------



## workindad

Great update. I am very happy for you and your wife. 

Thanks for the update.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## StandingInQuicksand

AR helped me so much 3 years ago when disaster struck in my life. I am just thrilled to pieces to hear he is doing well, and that he's no longer on here as much. It just isn't healthy. As much as he's surely helped many many people, he needs to take care of himself first and foremost and it seems he is doing just that. Bravo and best wishes, Almostrecovered!


----------



## Almostrecovered

StandingInQuicksand said:


> AR helped me so much 3 years ago when disaster struck in my life. I am just thrilled to pieces to hear he is doing well, and that he's no longer on here as much. It just isn't healthy. As much as he's surely helped many many people, he needs to take care of himself first and foremost and it seems he is doing just that. Bravo and best wishes, Almostrecovered!


yes, well I found myself on here a little more recently, but mainly to screw with some old friends



and HEY! It's you! How are you SiQ? Always wondered how things turned out for you.


----------



## Almostrecovered

5 year anniversary passed a few days ago without my noticing it until now

nice to no longer be a slave to the date


----------



## thummper

So happy to hear that you and your lovey lady are doing well. It's nice to hear good news from someone here. So many sad and depressing stories. Sometimes I wonder why I read them. Maybe to reassure myself of how good I really have it.


----------



## thummper

And I REALLY wish your wife the best in dealing with her struggles. She's so lucky to have you there to stand by her and help her. I was always impressed at what a good man you were to keep your marriage going in spite of everything.


----------



## Sports Fan

Very strange. Sad story


----------



## Almostrecovered

sad? It has a happy ending


----------



## larry.gray

Almostrecovered said:


> taking an extended break guys, not sure if and when I will be back-
> 
> my goodbye - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/social-spot/57181-just-cant-seem-hit-reply-button-anymore.html


Invalid thread specified


----------



## Almostrecovered

Deleted over a year ago


----------



## aug

Almostrecovered said:


> 5 year anniversary passed a few days ago without my noticing it until now
> 
> nice to no longer be a slave to the date



I bet the dancing turtle helps.


----------



## Almostrecovered

More than you'll ever know


----------



## weightlifter

I am NOT doubting but curious.

Did you get any independent evidence that i was 'only' oral?

This one kind of reminds me of the blew the hairdresser thread for some reason.

Remember. The most important opinion of R or D. Belongs to the betrayed. We are all wired differently.


----------



## Almostrecovered

No but I couldn't find that it was more either and the story never changed under repeated questioning for a long time

I do know that pregnancy was a major concern of hers so unless he brought condoms (which supposedly he couldn't perform using them) then she wouldn't have done it
But hey she offered anal so honestly that intent was there regardless so it was never an important issue to me as the type of sex as I view BJ=PIV=Anal as far as level of offense. It was always a matter if she was lying or covering up that was the issue that was important to me. 

No regrets in my choice and she worked her ass off to atone and we are very happy now


----------



## thummper

Oh. I guess I wasn't aware that she had offered him anal. Don't understand why he didn't take her up on that. Anal is the holy grail of sex to a lot of guys. Makes ya wonder what kind of guy this was?! I'm glad he didn't except the offer.


----------



## Almostrecovered

He did want to but couldn't get it up
Or so she says
She even admitted she felt unwanted/undesirable about that at the time
So ultimately...she wanted it, was upset that it didn't happen so why on earth would it matter had he did do it? The infractions are all the same to me

I've made my peace with the fact that I would never know with 100% certainty years ago
I truly get if others can't but my gut wasn't screaming otherwise and in order to be happy I had to let it go at some point


----------



## thummper

Geeze, what a putz! Be interesting to see how his life is going now. Wonder if his dumba$$ wife ever tossed him. Probably not. She'd lose her meal ticket. Be nice to find out he lost everything in a divorce. I'll bet you and your lady are doing better than him.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Matters naught I'll always be a better man in mine and my wife's eyes. I think my wife hates him more than I do now


----------



## the guy

I stopped reading on page 4.....our talk was not on the back porch but in my office in the basement and very familiar.

Very similar conversation between me and the old lady...in fact very similar to how you and I went through this days before that "talk"...that phucking lying just killed me before the real talk...if you know what I mean lol.

The only difference between you and me....my old lady told me she was with 20 other men when I asked if there were more OM...and when I asked her how long she's been screwing around.... "for the last 13 years" (I ment with the guy she was currently banging)!!!! At least I found out my old lady is a one at a time kind of girl, no GB's and not into carpet munching.

On a side note I didn't have to get rid of any furniture.. since I worked at home so screwing around at the house was never an option. so I have that going for me 

Any way it will be 5yrs this Feb.....and you just brought it back home.

I thank...I thank you cuz my new marriage with the same old lady needs some tweeking and some adjustments..nothing major..just need to be addressed thats all....Its not like I started slapping her around again or she started phucking other guys again....actually we are empty nesters and instead of walking around the house naked we need to go out more...more date night out instead of around the pool evening after evening

Again you really brought it home for me on page 4 of this thread.


----------



## larry.gray

Almostrecovered said:


> I've made my peace with the fact that I would never know with 100% certainty years ago
> I truly get if others can't but my gut wasn't screaming otherwise and *in order to be happy I had to let it go at some point*


If you can come up with the magic way to do that for other BSs, you're going to help many others.


----------



## Almostrecovered

larry.gray said:


> If you can come up with the magic way to do that for other BSs, you're going to help many others.



in hindsight the magic was a combo of both of us

her-
1) didn't trickle truth very long or very much of it
2) told me stuff that I had no proof on or any idea happened, had she really wanted to minimize her actions she could have left all sorts of stuff out
3) was as transparent as possible and went out of her way for a long time to demonstrate where she was and what she was doing for my benefit

me-
1) worked through an obsessive/paranoid period through spying and learned that she wasn't hiding anything any longer and actually led a boring life without me post-affair
2) understood that affair sex no matter how it's conducted is equally destructive and the intent is just as bad the action itself. This helped me let go in the sense that I was forgiving for the same levels of infractions no matter what happened.
3) learned that moving forward and enjoying myself and my life with my wife was a worthwhile risk and brooding on the past after a certain point wasn't doing me any good


----------



## the guy

Almostrecovered said:


> No but I couldn't find that it was more either and the story never changed under repeated questioning for a long time
> 
> I do know that pregnancy was a major concern of hers so unless he brought condoms (which supposedly he couldn't perform using them) then she wouldn't have done it
> But hey she offered anal so honestly that intent was there regardless so it was never an important issue to me as the type of sex as I view BJ=PIV=Anal as far as level of offense. It was always a matter if she was lying or covering up that was the issue that was important to me.
> 
> No regrets in my choice and she worked her ass off to atone and we are very happy now


Geez I think our chicks are cut from the same cloth. I swear my old lady told me the same sh1t.


----------



## the guy

Almostrecovered said:


> in hindsight the magic was a combo of both of us
> 
> her-
> 1) didn't trickle truth very long or very much of it
> 2) told me stuff that I had no proof on or any idea happened, had she really wanted to minimize her actions she could have left all sorts of stuff out
> 3) was as transparent as possible and went out of her way for a long time to demonstrate where she was and what she was doing for my benefit
> 
> me-
> 1) worked through an obsessive/paranoid period through spying and learned that she wasn't hiding anything any longer and actually led a boring life without me post-affair
> 2) understood that affair sex no matter how it's conducted is equally destructive and the intent is just as bad the action itself. This helped me let go in the sense that I was forgiving for the same levels of infractions no matter what happened.
> 3) learned that moving forward and enjoying myself and my life with my wife was a worthwhile risk and brooding on the past after a certain point wasn't doing me any good


Again this is so familar for me!


----------



## the guy

BTW I skipped most of the thread...from page 4 straight over to page 22...
I have a feeling I already been there and lived it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

That's me and Nikoled too.. her story and mine are eerily similar.


----------



## j1974

well i finally got around to reading your story and truly amazing and so happy for both of you .. it truly is inspiring for the two of you to be where you are today!

gives hope to the hopeless!


----------



## Calibre1212

4 Years ago [email protected] 5:15am - AP: "I am here".


----------



## Booklovers

Thank you for this post... I found out about my H affair 3 weeks after it started & I had no clue about this forum, but like you most of the steps I took were the right ones...

Now working in R I'm happy I found this post bc it truly gives me hope that I can be happy again.


----------



## mgleckler74

Thank you for sharing...


----------



## Marc878

Zombie land. Geeze


----------

