# Can someone please help me understand?



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I just dont understan how you can have an EA and say you love your spouse??? He swears he loves me with all his heart, then why on earth would he put me through this?? Does it mean he doesnt love me or can he love me and still do this?:scratchhead:


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

I have a list for counseling today (I'm really not teasing about this-my H is laughing at me) and I have this Q on there....

I know we had problems and I'm sure I brushed them off as just "20 year slump" and assumed things would be normal and we would be old and grey sitting on a porch someday. BUT I WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD AN EA MYSELF BC I LOVE MY H AND MADE A VOW. I can't wrap my brain around this concept. If I ever got to that point I would put action to it either leave or say hey it's getting really really bad.

Oh also, for our situation, I kept thinking "he is going through early mid-life crisis and all his drinking & partying is because he wants/needs to feel young again and someday I too will go through my mid-life crises and he will have to support and be patient with me as I am him!" 

Well now...BS! *today I'm in anger mode, not crying or feeling sorry for myself as other days.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Affairs are perfectly selfish. The hard cold truth is that it wasn't about you - you weren't apart of it - you had nothing to do with it. It existed in a separate, parallel world to you and your marriage. 

I can't speak for your H but it is possible to love your spouse and do this - I did it. It's compartmentalization, denial, and again being totally and completely selfish.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Stop listening to his words, and focus on his actions. They will show you his true feelings.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Ingalls said:


> I have a list for counseling today (I'm really not teasing about this-my H is laughing at me) and I have this Q on there....
> 
> I know we had problems and I'm sure I brushed them off as just "20 year slump" and assumed things would be normal and we would be old and grey sitting on a porch someday. BUT I WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD AN EA MYSELF BC I LOVE MY H AND MADE A VOW. I can't wrap my brain around this concept. If I ever got to that point I would put action to it either leave or say hey it's getting really really bad.
> 
> ...


my H didnt go thru the partying thing. He was the perfect liar. I just didnt look hard enough for the truth. It was there if I had opened my eyes. But honestly, I swear you and I are dopplegangers. Let me know what the MC says about how/if they can love you and still do this....


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Affairs are perfectly selfish. The hard cold truth is that it wasn't about you - you weren't apart of it - you had nothing to do with it. It existed in a separate, parallel world to you and your marriage.
> 
> I can't speak for your H but it is possible to love your spouse and do this - I did it. It's compartmentalization, denial, and again being totally and completely selfish.


Sigma, thats EXACTLY what he said, that it was all about him. That he is selfish and thought basically "what she doesnt know, wont hurt her" to be sucinct. I just couldnt do it. I cant wrap my brain around it.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> my H didnt go thru the partying thing. He was the perfect liar. I just didnt look hard enough for the truth. It was there if I had opened my eyes. But honestly, I swear you and I are dopplegangers. Let me know what the MC says about how/if they can love you and still do this....


Will do...


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Sure they can love you while doing stuff like that. People love other people all the time while knowingly doing something they know the other person would not agree with. My hubby loved me the whole time he was acting out. He did what Sigma said - compartmentalized and denied. And acted completely selfishly.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Sigma, thats EXACTLY what he said, that it was all about him. That he is selfish and thought basically "what she doesnt know, wont hurt her" to be sucinct. I just couldnt do it. I cant wrap my brain around it.


I know it's hard to wrap your head around but it's the truth. When you're cheating you literally build a second world inside your head - compartmentalizing your affair world and your real world. Short of being completely sociopathic it's the only way most cheaters can cope with what they are doing. When you're in one world, the other just kind of goes on hold and leaves your consciousness. It's the only way to avoid having to reconcile what you are doing to someone you love. It's a large part of why so many cheaters start lying their pants off when confronted, when the compartments collapse and suddenly they do have to reconcile what they are doing they can't cope in that instant. So they start lying their pants off to get the immediate pressure off so they can stop the world from spinning.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I know it's hard to wrap your head around but it's the truth. When you're cheating you literally build a second world inside your head - compartmentalizing your affair world and your real world. Short of being completely sociopathic it's the only way most cheaters can cope with what they are doing. When you're in one world, the other just kind of goes on hold and leaves your consciousness. It's the only way to avoid having to reconcile what you are doing to someone you love. It's a large part of why so many cheaters start lying their pants off when confronted, when the compartments collapse and suddenly they do have to reconcile what they are doing they can't cope in that instant. So they start lying their pants off to get the immediate pressure off so they can stop the world from spinning.


Don't take this wrong, definitely not intended to be critical, but how do you "know" you won't do this again? the compartmentalizing that is.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Ingalls said:


> Don't take this wrong, definitely not intended to be critical, but how do you "know" you won't do this again? the compartmentalizing that is.


No worries - I don't take it as critical in the least - it's a fair question. Ultimately I don't. I know that I would rather be tarred and feathered and eat broken glass than do that again but do I know it as an absolute - no and IMO no one does. I know what my intentions are. I know what I've done and put in place to keep it from happening again. I know the prices I've paid and still pay for what I did. 

I can't begin to fathom doing that again. If I found myself tempted by another to the point of contemplating something like an affair I would tell my wife BEFORE it crossed the line and deal with the consequences - whatever they are - they would be less than the ones I've dealt with for my affair. I've just learned to never say never.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> No worries - I don't take it as critical in the least - it's a fair question. Ultimately I don't. I know that I would rather be tarred and feathered and eat broken glass than do that again but do I know it as an absolute - no and IMO no one does. I know what my intentions are. I know what I've done and put in place to keep it from happening again. I know the prices I've paid and still pay for what I did.
> 
> I can't begin to fathom doing that again. If I found myself tempted by another to the point of contemplating something like an affair I would tell my wife BEFORE it crossed the line and deal with the consequences - whatever they are - they would be less than the ones I've dealt with for my affair. I've just learned to never say never.


Thanks for honesty...after I posted I wish I hadn't of because I didn't want to piss you or anyone off! I think you sound very sincere in your posts. Thanks for all the advice and insight-it truly does help.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

When A starts, love for the spouse is dead.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> When A starts, love for the spouse is dead.


theres a part of me that sees it that way.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> No worries - I don't take it as critical in the least - it's a fair question. Ultimately I don't. I know that I would rather be tarred and feathered and eat broken glass than do that again but do I know it as an absolute - no and IMO no one does. I know what my intentions are. I know what I've done and put in place to keep it from happening again. I know the prices I've paid and still pay for what I did.
> 
> I can't begin to fathom doing that again. If I found myself tempted by another to the point of contemplating something like an affair I would tell my wife BEFORE it crossed the line and deal with the consequences - whatever they are - they would be less than the ones I've dealt with for my affair. I've just learned to never say never.


This is pretty much what my hubby says too.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I have not read your story. 

If you are into R, you need to focus on the other part of you that could say love is not yet dead!

In any case, the cheating is indelible.

He cant say he loved you when he had A. I don't think he means it when he says "love you". Probably he never knew what love is.

Stay strong. Focus on yourself. 180 is helpful.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> I have not read your story.
> 
> If you are into R, you need to focus on the other part of you that could say love is not yet dead!
> 
> ...


Au, Indelible indeed. Forgiveable is the question?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Au, Indelible indeed. Forgiveable is the question?


IMO, a personal choice. Some can, some cannot. You - and only you - know what is in your heart and mind, your entire situation.

It can be done (take that advice from one who can't do it).
But it takes time and work, from both of you, to discover/uncover 'why' it happened in the first place and what will need to happen to ensure that has been addressed.

Good luck to you.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Affairs are perfectly selfish. The hard cold truth is that it wasn't about you - you weren't apart of it - you had nothing to do with it. It existed in a separate, parallel world to you and your marriage.
> 
> I can't speak for your H but it is possible to love your spouse and do this - I did it. It's compartmentalization, denial, and again being totally and completely selfish.


That pretty much describes my wife during that time. A parallel world, of which I was not a part. Helps to understand that, but it still sucks.:scratchhead:


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

river rat said:


> That pretty much describes my wife during that time. A parallel world, of which I was not a part. Helps to understand that, but it still sucks.:scratchhead:


It does and it doesnt. I makes me feel like Im living with and have been living with a stranger. It sucks for sure. He tells me he loves me and I think in my head "do you?"


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> Au, Indelible indeed. Forgiveable is the question?


From your start of the thread, I understand that you are not yet into forgiving. Thats why you should start 180 soon.

How does he say i love you, now? 

There are cases of hysterical bonding after an A. In some cases, WS say these things to deter BS to take revenge or other drastic measures. You need to be vigilant. Dont take things on face value.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I just dont understan how you can have an EA and say you love your spouse??? He swears he loves me with all his heart, then why on earth would he put me through this?? Does it mean he doesnt love me or can he love me and still do this?:scratchhead:


It's not about you, your feelings or the damage done. That's the hard part. I love my wife very much but "our" relationship had been primed for an EA or PA for some time. I think the "itch" that most people wouldn't scratch gets very real when your needs aren't met and you're starving, whatever those unmet needs are. I felt like the starving children with a protruding belly surrounded by flies on the save the children commercials. I resisted going out and looking for what I needed elsewhere but I had very serious thoughts about doing it because I didn't see any hope. Things were "too comfortable" to change and everything I had tried to do to communicate my needs fell on deaf ears or things didn't get better. We didn't understand each other and were out of sync in a very major way. 

Had a woman one come my way, I'm pretty sure I would have had an EA or PA in spite of me being a very loyal and faithful man. I've never done that before but I knew I was on the edge. A starving man is going to eat, a woman with unmet needs is going to cheat. It's an equal opportunity problem for both men and women. I'm sorry for you that whatever the cause wasn't figured out before things went further. I know what that's like. 

In my situation, had I gone through with it, I would have been responsible for the damage but I also believe that spouses have a role to play in fidelity. We may or may not understand what we need to do, stop doing what worked or put our energy in the things that don't matter. I can't blame her for everything. My original reasoning was if she just gave me "x", I'd be happy and everything would be perfect. I came to a more mature understanding that I was causing some (not all) of the issues that made me unhappy. It took two to get our relationship in a ditch and it takes two to get out. 

For me, I'm very glad I didn't cross a line when I felt as vulnerable as I did. Having been on the other side as the one cheated on, I did not want to do that to my wife which is part of what stopped me, how I found myself here and found out I'm not the only one who had these issues.

The "180" approach works in my experience and it's good because it takes the focus off of what you think is wrong (which is or may be the problem) and puts your focus on you. You stop wasting energy on things you can't control and start putting energy into yourself. You become better and hopefully the marriage comes along for the ride.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> It's not about you, your feelings or the damage done. That's the hard part. I love my wife very much but "our" relationship had been primed for an EA or PA for some time. I think the "itch" that most people wouldn't scratch gets very real when your needs aren't met and you're starving, whatever those unmet needs are. I felt like the starving children with a protruding belly surrounded by flies on the save the children commercials. I resisted going out and looking for what I needed elsewhere but I had very serious thoughts about doing it because I didn't see any hope. Things were "too comfortable" to change and everything I had tried to do to communicate my needs fell on deaf ears or things didn't get better. We didn't understand each other and were out of sync in a very major way.
> 
> Had a woman one come my way, I'm pretty sure I would have had an EA or PA in spite of me being a very loyal and faithful man. I've never done that before but I knew I was on the edge. A starving man is going to eat, a woman with unmet needs is going to cheat. It's an equal opportunity problem for both men and women. I'm sorry for you that whatever the cause wasn't figured out before things went further. I know what that's like.
> 
> ...


He shouldnt be starving. We had ALOT of sex, conversation and spent alot of time together.I think it was about his ego(?)
I did the 180 for 3 weeks. I am still fence sitting. He is doing things to show remorse(IC, NC w/OW unless I see it, he works with her (from home),he had to tell our adult children, Given all passwords etc and is talking alot). My problem is that when I ask him why he really doesnt give a decent answer. Says we had a good marriage and it was about him being selfish, but I just dont get that answer. It doesnt make any sense. If your marriage is fulfulling why stray and risk it all? And if its not, why fight so hard to save it?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I agree with you. It makes you think the grass wasn't greener on the other side so they "settled", we in a sense are their safety net. It makes you feel incredibly worthless.

If you're truly in love with someone then you wouldn't logically tell another you love them too? 

It's safe to assume that you're scepticism is justifiable. Assurances mean nothing to be honest, EA's and the pain they inflict ironically make you question whether you can truly love your cheating spouse again, given everything about them has proved to be a façade. Take your time with the fence sitting, see how hard he fights for you then you'd know for sure if those words mean anything.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I agree with you. It makes you think the grass wasn't greener on the other side so they "settled", we in a sense are their safety net. It makes you feel incredibly worthless.
> 
> If you're truly in love with someone then you wouldn't logically tell another you love them too?
> 
> It's safe to assume that you're scepticism is justifiable. Assurances mean nothing to be honest, EA's and the pain they inflict ironically make you question whether you can truly love your cheating spouse again, given everything about them has proved to be a façade. Take your time with the fence sitting, see how hard he fights for you then you'd know for sure if those words mean anything.


The part you say about everything about them being a facade is the part that is killing me. I keep wondering what is real and what has been bullsh*t. How far and how deep does it go? How good of a liar he was just scares me to death.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Opportunity! Could it just be that he had the door open for him and went in thinking only of him self. If there can be crimes of opportunity then there sure can be of cheating.

For a long time my husband could not give me reason. There was no rhyme to his EA and one day he said that it was an opportunity and he took it selfishly. He did not think about me at all. It was fun in a dangerous way and a boost to his ego. My husband also said it had nothing to do with me at all I was not even in his mind at the time and when he was with me not talking to her she was not in his mind.

I actually found that something I could wrap my mind around. People do things all the time based off of selfish wants that in the moment out rule good thinking, like impulse shopping. (I am not trying to minimize the act because it is a big deal) But they do things and regret them later. Well that is just my opinion but I did not start getting through it and all the fall out it caused until I had that understanding take place in my head.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

sigma1299 said:


> Affairs are perfectly selfish. The hard cold truth is that it wasn't about you - you weren't apart of it - you had nothing to do with it. It existed in a separate, parallel world to you and your marriage.
> 
> I can't speak for your H but it is possible to love your spouse and do this - I did it. It's compartmentalization, denial, and again being totally and completely selfish.


*10000% *
Yep, that is exactly it!! Compartmentalization to the max........it's like a video game!! The problem is it's not, but I can totally relate to that!


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> I just dont understan how you can have an EA and say you love your spouse??? He swears he loves me with all his heart, then why on earth would he put me through this?? Does it mean he doesnt love me or can he love me and still do this?:scratchhead:


It means he wants to be with the other woman but he doesn't want to go through the mental anguish and the financial devastation of a divorce, along with the inconvenience and adjustment of having to move somewhere else. 

He could conceivably love you but not with all his heart, because part of his heart is now reserved for the woman he's having the affair with. 

A better question might be why would you put up with this even for a second?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

AAAHHH, EGO. How I hate that word. I have heard alot about it lately. "she stroked my ego"....etc. Which totally hacks me off b/c I would tell him how impressed I was w/him, how much I appreciated all that he did for us,what a great dad he is and so on. But his answer at least in part is "she stroked my ego and I liked it" So that makes me think "wow, everytime a chick comes along and gives you a compliment youre gonna forget youre married?" I think in part he simply did it b/c he could, there were no consequences and his head had gotten WAY too big for his shoulders. So thats the part I understand but I just dont understand driving over me with a mac truck over and over then coming home and acting like mr. wonderful. Just leaves me questioning my own judgement about everything. I should have seen this and acted WAY sooner but I just argued with him about a few times(having no real proof, just suspicion based on my gut) but I should have REALLY stepped in the way of this way sooner. For that I am having trouble forgiving myself. With him I am having trouble recognizing the guy standing in front of me.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> AAAHHH, EGO. How I hate that word. I have heard alot about it lately. "she stroked my ego"....etc. Which totally hacks me off b/c I would tell him how impressed I was w/him, how much I appreciated all that he did for us,what a great dad he is and so on. But his answer at least in part is "she stroked my ego and I liked it" So that makes me think "wow, everytime a chick comes along and gives you a compliment youre gonna forget youre married?" I think in part he simply did it b/c he could, there were no consequences and his head had gotten WAY too big for his shoulders. So thats the part I understand but I just dont understand driving over me with a mac truck over and over then coming home and acting like mr. wonderful. Just leaves me questioning my own judgement about everything. I should have seen this and acted WAY sooner but I just argued with him about a few times(having no real proof, just suspicion based on my gut) but I should have REALLY stepped in the way of this way sooner. For that I am having trouble forgiving myself. With him I am having trouble recognizing the guy standing in front of me.


Everyone will have their ego stoked when someone of the opposite sex pays attention to you. Compartmentalizing does explain some of it. It could be a character flaw, weakness on his part or the things you did that you thought fulfilled his needs were not doing the job, maybe the perfect storm of circumstances and opportunity. Really those answers need to come from him and he needs to give you those answers no matter what they are if you are going to have a future together. He needs to rebuild the trust and should be working very hard to make things right. When my ex serial cheater told me her reasons, I did what she said I didn't do, and of course the cheating continued. That's a possibility that you have to face. Pandora's box is open and the EA can't be taken back. I do believe someone can make a mistake. Mistakes can be worked with I think. A pattern of behavior is a different story.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> Everyone will have their ego stoked when someone of the opposite sex pays attention to you. Compartmentalizing does explain some of it. It could be a character flaw, weakness on his part or the things you did that you thought fulfilled his needs were not doing the job, maybe the perfect storm of circumstances and opportunity. Really those answers need to come from him and he needs to give you those answers no matter what they are if you are going to have a future together. He needs to rebuild the trust and should be working very hard to make things right. When my ex serial cheater told me her reasons, I did what she said I didn't do, and of course the cheating continued. That's a possibility that you have to face. Pandora's box is open and the EA can't be taken back. I do believe someone can make a mistake. Mistakes can be worked with I think. A pattern of behavior is a different story.


He has admitted to it being a character flaw. Being addicted to the attention I guess. No he cant take it back and I dont know if I will ever feel as deeply for him as I did before. I have some serious doubt that that is possible. It is a flirtatous pattern for sure. But this one just got way out of hand. I know the answers have to come from him, that s the worst part, I dont think he has them. My personal opinion is that he did it b/c he could. B/c it made him feel good in the moment. I get that but my problem comes in the fact that he lied so much to me about alot of things.(flirtatious emails, lunches(in the office)but he intentionally didnt tell me about lunch w her b/c he knew that would make it more difficult to continue. He didnt want me to 'get in the way'. In essence his ego came before his feelings for me.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> In essence his ego came before his feelings for me.


That's not "in essence" that's in reality. Like I said "perfectly selfish."


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> He has admitted to it being a character flaw. Being addicted to the attention I guess. No he cant take it back and I dont know if I will ever feel as deeply for him as I did before. I have some serious doubt that that is possible. It is a flirtatous pattern for sure. But this one just got way out of hand. I know the answers have to come from him, that s the worst part, I dont think he has them. My personal opinion is that he did it b/c he could. B/c it made him feel good in the moment. I get that but my problem comes in the fact that he lied so much to me about alot of things.(flirtatious emails, lunches(in the office)but he intentionally didnt tell me about lunch w her b/c he knew that would make it more difficult to continue. He didnt want me to 'get in the way'. In essence his ego came before his feelings for me.


It may be possible to restore what was lost BUT it can't when the root causes aren't dealt with. The doors to the EA have to be closed. If those aren't, I wouldn't give my spouse the time of day to be quite honest. That would be non-negotiable as far as I'm concerned. If that wasn't his immediate action when the EA came out, you have every right to be concerned and questioning his commitment/feelings for you. 

I work with a lot of women and on occasion, I do go out with groups of people to lunch or out for a drink after work. I don't cross the line of setting up lunch or dinner dates alone with another woman. It's just not right. If I did that, I would feel guilty. It's not uncommon to "flirt" with people you work with either. There's a big difference between saying "that's what she said" and "what color panties do you have on" or "what's your favorite position".


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> What is your story and why are you on TAM?


I'm divorced 6 years now, 2 daughters, a grand daughter and I'm currently in a relationship that is going on 2 months.

I'm here because giving advice and support is therapeutic to me and I find some of the stories to be somewhat entertaining while at the same time, educational and informative. 

Even though I've pretty much got my life back together after a high conflict and expensive divorce, I've still got my share of healing to do and sometimes when I read all the crap that others are going through I think to myself "wow things could have been a heck of a lot worse" and that makes me feel better.

Posting to forums is the same thing as journeling, it gets it out of a persons head and helps with the healing process, while at the same time you can get feedback on others that helps give you perspective and coping mechanisms that you might not have considered.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> It may be possible to restore what was lost BUT it can't when the root causes aren't dealt with. The doors to the EA have to be closed. If those aren't, I wouldn't give my spouse the time of day to be quite honest. That would be non-negotiable as far as I'm concerned. If that wasn't his immediate action when the EA came out, you have every right to be concerned and questioning his commitment/feelings for you.
> 
> I work with a lot of women and on occasion, I do go out with groups of people to lunch or out for a drink after work. I don't cross the line of setting up lunch or dinner dates alone with another woman. It's just not right. If I did that, I would feel guilty. It's not uncommon to "flirt" with people you work with either. There's a big difference between saying "that's what she said" and "what color panties do you have on" or "what's your favorite position".


He closed it as soon as he knew he was caught. Alot of it was done via email.(he has given me the password to his work email)He took a 'work from home leave'. Since she is in the office right next to him, that was the quickest way away from her. He still has to get email from her but I have seen them they are completely work related, no editorial. He has a second interview with a new company so he is doing his best to get away from there all together. THe emails were never as specific as "what color are your underwear etc" kinda comments it was alot of "you are awesome" "lets rule the world together" crap. He had lunch w/a different girl in the office(they stayed in)but he had also flirted with her on email(though it was pretty mild). He said they did some work and flirted some. When recounting his day he intentionally omitted that part. Its been a while since that happened.That was a crappy thing to hear but truthful. And he didnt have to tell me at all. So she's really just about the pattern of being flirtatious. The OW who is actually causing the real problem was/is his superior. What a cluster,huh? They never had lunch or any real alone time just ALOT of flirting in person and over email. I caught him by reading his email.
He has made alot of changes since Dday but still stumbles when talking about it. He is in IC and did have to confess to both of our grown children. I just dont know how I feel about him. I am mad as hell, I feel deceived, betrayed and hurt but thats how I feel about the situation. How do I feel about this stranger in my house? Thats what keeps going through my head.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> He closed it as soon as he knew he was caught. Alot of it was done via email.(he has given me the password to his work email)He took a 'work from home leave'. Since she is in the office right next to him, that was the quickest way away from her. He still has to get email from her but I have seen them they are completely work related, no editorial. He has a second interview with a new company so he is doing his best to get away from there all together. THe emails were never as specific as "what color are your underwear etc" kinda comments it was alot of "you are awesome" "lets rule the world together" crap. He had lunch w/a different girl in the office(they stayed in)but he had also flirted with her on email(though it was pretty mild). He said they did some work and flirted some. When recounting his day he intentionally omitted that part. Its been a while since that happened.That was a crappy thing to hear but truthful. And he didnt have to tell me at all. So she's really just about the pattern of being flirtatious. The OW who is actually causing the real problem was/is his superior. What a cluster,huh? They never had lunch or any real alone time just ALOT of flirting in person and over email. I caught him by reading his email.
> He has made alot of changes since Dday but still stumbles when talking about it. He is in IC and did have to confess to both of our grown children. I just dont know how I feel about him. I am mad as hell, I feel deceived, betrayed and hurt but thats how I feel about the situation. How do I feel about this stranger in my house? Thats what keeps going through my head.


All of what you feel is normal. At least it sounds like he's taking the right steps. IC is also a positive. You and him probably need some joint sessions and maybe some IC for yourself too. I know its not much comfort, but at least he didn't sleep with her. the EA is just as devastating but I think when an EA crosses into PA its worse. Again knowing that one from personal experiences. My ex never came clean about her's unless I had concrete proof in my hands like love notes and condoms in MY CAR. Yeah it could be worse...


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

phantomfan said:


> All of what you feel is normal. At least it sounds like he's taking the right steps. IC is also a positive. You and him probably need some joint sessions and maybe some IC for yourself too. I know its not much comfort, but at least he didn't sleep with her. the EA is just as devastating but I think when an EA crosses into PA its worse. Again knowing that one from personal experiences. My ex never came clean about her's unless I had concrete proof in my hands like love notes and condoms in MY CAR. Yeah it could be worse...


I am very aware that it could be worse and have my eyes wide open. He is taking some steps, its gonna be a long road. I think its possible I wont be able to feel the same for him again. Right now when I try to access feelings for him I feel.....numb.
And yes I am glad it wasnt PA. I know that would be my dealbreaker. The EA is breaking my heart as it is. Its a very hollow feeling. Its ironic though, I spent years giving him my all and he apparently didnt care. Now I am numb and he's busting a$$. WTF?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

The hardest part for anyone to grasp is that it simply wasn't about you. It should have been of course, but it wasn't. You could have been dancing nude on the table with sparklers twirling while preparing him his very favorite meal, folding his laundry and getting him a beer and it wouldn't have made any difference. It wasn't about the OW either thought. It was about him, him and him alone. Just like any other really self destructive behavior it makes no sense, no one making good decisions would do those things. He wasn't and didn't make good decisions. His decision making tree was only what made him feel good right then, at that moment, his process went no further than that. His decisions never got to you, they never made it past him. 

That does nothing to alleviate the pain he has wrought upon you. I guess the only solace, if there is any, is that your pain was an unintended consequence. Don't take that as I mean it was an unknown consequence, he knew it full well, but it wasn't his motivation or desire to hurt you I'll bet. He's got a lot of work to do to rebuild your feelings for him - that's only fair and reasonable - he crushed them now he's got the hard work to do to put it back together - if you're willing and able to let him.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> The hardest part for anyone to grasp is that it simply wasn't about you. It should have been of course, but it wasn't. You could have been dancing nude on the table with sparklers twirling while preparing him his very favorite meal, folding his laundry and getting him a beer and it wouldn't have made any difference. It wasn't about the OW either thought. It was about him, him and him alone. Just like any other really self destructive behavior it makes no sense, no one making good decisions would do those things. He wasn't and didn't make good decisions. His decision making tree was only what made him feel good right then, at that moment, his process went no further than that. His decisions never got to you, they never made it past him.
> 
> That does nothing to alleviate the pain he has wrought upon you. I guess the only solace, if there is any, is that your pain was an unintended consequence. Don't take that as I mean it was an unknown consequence, he knew it full well, but it wasn't his motivation or desire to hurt you I'll bet. He's got a lot of work to do to rebuild your feelings for him - that's only fair and reasonable - he crushed them now he's got the hard work to do to put it back together - if you're willing and able to let him.


Thats it. I dont know if Im able to let him. I dont know if I can forgive him. I have lost respect and admiration for him. I just dont FEEL for him what I did six months ago. When I try to access that I get rage from within myself. I am wondering if its truly gone or just a defensive mechanism.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Not sure how far past D Day you are but that's totally normal - for a while. At some point you've got to move forward, together or not, eventually you have to move. 

One thing you may need to accept is that the marriage you had is over. You can't recreate it and you can't get back to it. The marriage in front of you can be better, worse, or disolved - that's up to the two of you. Reconciliation is hard work and it requires a huge leap of faith by the betrayed spouse. You'll just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other until the right path presents itself.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Not sure how far past D Day you are but that's totally normal - for a while. At some point you've got to move forward, together or not, eventually you have to move.
> 
> One thing you may need to accept is that the marriage you had is over. You can't recreate it and you can't get back to it. The marriage in front of you can be better, worse, or disolved - that's up to the two of you. Reconciliation is hard work and it requires a huge leap of faith by the betrayed spouse. You'll just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other until the right path presents itself.


I put concrete proof in front of him and he owned up in early March. I have suspected it since summer. But got busy 'finding out' and when I had enough evidence and after trying to get him to do it himself w/o really addressing it I put it all on the table. "Its her or me." Period. So here we are. I know our marriage of then is over and I guess Im glad b/c apparently it was an illusion so its good that I have my head out of the sand and he knows I know. Either way you look at it it gets better from here. THe lying stops. I wont ignore my gut ever again. In my dream world we would get past this and be better for it. I just hope I can do that.


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