# I know this is not going to go over well…but



## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

The last time I was on this site was in November…and I was depressed as Hell!!
I wrote about all of the thing I had been going through with my husband, and how frustrated
And emotionally lonely and I tired I was from his behavior…or should I say lack of behavior.

I sat down and had a talk with him after I sent the letter and told him I think he settled for me and just did not want to be alone and that’s why he married me. Surely…someone who loves you wants to have contact with you past a three peck kiss when you get home for work.

My husband said…”I don’t think I settled….but you’re right ….I didn’t want to be alone. 

When he said that…something snapped inside of me and all I could do was stare at him. I hope those that read this know how bad he messed up with that response kind of response….but if you don’t
I really don’t care anymore…because that was the last straw for me. My money, my time, and most importantly ….my love,……and he don’t think….He settled !

Revenge,….call it whatever you want…but I went out and found myself…a FBuddy.
I have had the best sex of my life between the time I last wrote on this website and today. As a matter of fact….I have had more sex in that same timespan….than I have had in the last three years. 
I know this approach might not be for everyone…but if he does not wants to not be alone no problem…I will live and contribute as always. I will still treat him with the same respect, and I’m not leaving because I like my house !….But ! 
I can no longer allow him to hold me as a celibacy hostage because he’s afraid to be alone. 
I know this will not go over will….but I don’t care..
What’s funny is he is walking around still keeping his PJ’s buttoned to his chin….and he does not even notice….that I am not even Trying….to get him to remove them. …Kool.
If you LD’s are reading this ….you need to know that enough is enough either you change….
Or…you just might put your HD in a position that forces them to make the change for you !


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

You'd rather cheat than leave?


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Is this an open marriage? Would you be willing to divorce? You both have a right to be happy, divorce may be the best solution.
Do not stay with him because it is comfortable for you otherwise you are doing the same thing he is.
You are settling as well.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Each to their own!

I would like to be able to do what you are doing but I know I couldn't. Two reasons:

1) I would feel too much guilt
2) I am sure I would fall in love with the FBuddy!

I will leave my marriage before finding someone else.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

holly crap

well tell your husband he might be ok with an open marriage


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

He doesn't think he settled, but you insist on taking it that way. Why? So you could justify cheating on him? You're right - your immaturity is not going over well.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

You seem very proud and vindicated about what you have done. 
Now while you still have your big girl pants on go and tell him.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You go girl. He deserves what he gets. He had to know that this was the eventual consequence of his choices.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

you've posted this in three different sections.Are you looking to stir up drama or just confused on how the site works?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

So does your husband know?


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I am sure there are some LD spouses who would not care whether their SO found a FBuddy. 

-Sounds like your guy is one of them.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You go girl. He deserves what he gets. He had to know that this was the eventual consequence of his choices.


Bam !


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

Perhaps you should tell him that you have found someone to satisfy that part of you and it may make him take notice and change. Just a thought.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

So the point of your post is to essentially say; if you're not getting enough sex from your spouse; it's okay to cheat on them, because they deserve it. Why bother with divorce?

I see.

Good luck with that.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes b/c being passive agressive and finding a f buddy behind your husbands back is something to be proud of. 

Just tell your husband you are sleeping with other men. Maybe he would enjoy an open marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'll side with you. As long as you have told him the truth. If not...not so much.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

If you don't care how anyone feels other than yourself.. why post?

Not being snarky.. but why bother? Is this some way of you making yourself feel better about contaminating your home?

You have deception in your relationship. I can guarantee you that will come back to bite YOU in the ass and THEN you will CARE...

But it will be too damn late.

It's one thing to cheat, it's another to post on marriage help forum and brag about it for no apparent reason.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

whataboutthis? said:


> Perhaps you should tell him that you have found someone to satisfy that part of you and it may make him take notice and change. Just a thought.


Sure, promiscuity just brings warm fuzzies to the table of every negotiation...


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

So when you sat him down to have a talk about why you guys weren't connecting, the poor guy would have been better off being dishonest with you. Because based on the honest response you got, instead of trying to work through the issues, something snapped and you decided to go f--k around. Poor guy. Can't imagine why he wouldn't feel a close bond to someone like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I've commented in 2/3 so I never know which one I'm opening when it shows up in my list...so exciting!! 

lol

seriously,OP,do your husband and yourself a favor and come clean.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So why don't you leave him, and enjoy a full relationship with a loving partner? You're hurting yourself as much as anyone else. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She loves her house.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Check this out.
I did not put this out for your approval or advice. I just looked back at this website and thought....LD need to know that they had a hand in the making of this. Now my LD can spend three to four years wondering, crying, overeating and all the stuff that goes along with being with someone who looks at you as simply a roommate. ....and yes I am going to live right where I am... No one told him to move because he didn't want to have sex with me ....right ? 
I had to under his LD reign.
Yes....I have gone straight up crazy....and it feels good !


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

soooo...the point of 3 threads would be??


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> soooo...the point of 3 threads would be??


the point of counting them...is ?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Well, at least there aren't any kids involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Leelan said:


> the point of counting them...is ?


bc it's f**king ridiculous. this is a marriage support site.Not a place for people to come and brag about going batsh*t crazy to the point of being a cheater instead of doing the honest thing and leaving the man.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Don't folks get it....This forum...made me !
I am you....I just got tired of crying.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

aww,you're so not me or most of the other ladies of this site.


take it to a place that supports cheating maybe?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

ScarletBegonias said:


> you've posted this in three different sections.Are you looking to stir up drama or just confused on how the site works?


All three threads have been merged in Coping with Infidelity which is where it belongs.

(Amp leaves the arena forgetting to feed the lions and not really caring)


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Leelan said:


> Don't folks get it....This forum...made me !
> I am you....I just got tired of crying.


If you want to have sex with someone who doesn't give a rats arse about your welfare, you ought to at least get paid for it.

Why not prostitute yourself out to a lot of guys so you can even get more sex and make some spending money at hte same time?


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> soooo...the point of 3 threads would be??


attention......The OP wants attention badly.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

I believe OP is hurting and just striking out. Seeking validation. I know how it feels to be rejected physically by my husband. Hurts like hell. Now I didn't react in the same way. I am 11 months into a separation. But I do know how painful it is to be rejected by your husband. Can do some crazy s#!t to a woman.


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

I'm putting this in the "Neither person in this relationship respects themselves" file.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Leelan said:


> Don't folks get it....This forum...made me!
> I am you....I just got tired of crying.


:rofl:

Come back and let us know when this all blows up and he leaves you.

fwiw, I am NOT condoning him not fulfilling his part of the marriage. I AM saying you chose the immoral path. I'm not talking about the sex. I'm talking about LYING to your husband.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> attention......The OP wants attention badly.


bingo.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

turnera said:


> fwiw, I am NOT condoning him not fulfilling his part of the marriage. I AM saying you chose the immoral path. I'm not talking about the sex. I'm talking about LYING to your husband.


:iagree:


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Leelan said:


> Don't folks get it....This forum...made me !
> I am you....I just got tired of crying.


Ahh so this forum = Batman, and you = the Joker! Got it.

Seriously though, I get it. I was in a sexless marriage for years. It's tough. But, I doubt this is really the path to happiness you imagine it to be. I know I wouldn't want to be married to one woman and getting my sexual and emotional needs met with another. I just don't see the point of that. Find a person who can be both things for you and be with them. That makes much more sense to me.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for posting. You're a perfect example of the non remorseful, cake eating, narcissistic, selfish entitled wayward. This post should be a sticky!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

So OP, tell us about all the crazy freaky monkey circus sex you're having. Leave out no detail. Positions, smells, controlled substances used. We'll critique you.

This forum made you and this forum demands you comply.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

So, it seems safe to assume that you've settled and are just staying with him because you don't want to be alone (or want your house, car, etc., which is actually much shallower than wanting companionship).


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> All three threads have been merged in Coping with Infidelity which is where it belongs.
> 
> (Amp leaves the arena forgetting to feed the lions and not really caring)


This thread tastes like...


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Leelan said:


> The last time I was on this site was in November…and I was depressed as Hell!!
> I wrote about all of the thing I had been going through with my husband, and how frustrated
> And emotionally lonely and I tired I was from his behavior…or should I say lack of behavior.
> 
> ...


I can see why you did...what you did...but this isn't going to get any better for either of you.
Was he always as LD as he is now?
Do you love your husband?
Does he know about your 'affair'?


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Thanks for posting. You're a perfect example of the non remorseful, cake eating, narcissistic, selfish entitled wayward. This post should be a sticky!


I was thinking more like:

Delete the thread. Ban the poster. There are forums elsewhere that are cheater friendly, right? This isn't a remorseful or introspective OP. There's nothing to be learned from this thread.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

whataboutthis? said:


> I believe OP is hurting and just striking out. Seeking validation. I know how it feels to be rejected physically by my husband. Hurts like hell. Now I didn't react in the same way. I am 11 months into a separation. But I do know how painful it is to be rejected by your husband. Can do some crazy s#!t to a woman.


most of us have been rejected by at LEAST one person in our lives at some point.What you do with that rejection is going to determine whether or not you get hit by the karma bus later in life. Ideally,you communicate and try to get it worked out.If the other person continues their rejection pattern you have to walk away to keep your good grace and dignity.This poster has lost that and wasn't mentally strong enough to rise above the issues of someone else. But instead of feeling remorseful for her part,she's bragging and lashing out like a child would do to a parent who isn't paying attention to her.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Leelan said:


> Check this out.
> I did not put this out for your approval or advice. I just looked back at this website and thought....LD need to know that they had a hand in the making of this. Now my LD can spend three to four years wondering, crying, overeating and all the stuff that goes along with being with someone who looks at you as simply a roommate. ....and yes I am going to live right where I am... No one told him to move because he didn't want to have sex with me ....right ?
> I had to under his LD reign.
> Yes....I have gone straight up crazy....and it feels good !


I hope it gets better for you. Rejection can make people do some wild and crazy things but to risk your sanity, body and peace of mind because you want revenge is just not healthy. But maybe you don't care about your self enough right now to care. No mans words or actions should make you want to degrade yourself ....


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> most of us have been rejected by at LEAST one person in our lives at some point.What you do with that rejection is going to determine whether or not you get hit by the karma bus later in life. Ideally,you communicate and try to get it worked out.If the other person continues their rejection pattern you have to walk away to keep your good grace and dignity.This poster has lost that and wasn't mentally strong enough to rise above the issues of someone else. But instead of feeling remorseful for her part,she's bragging and lashing out like a child would do to a parent who isn't paying attention to her.


True, there are a thousand dignified more ways to handle it. But like I said, constant physical rejection from your H can leave you not of sound mind. Best thing she can do now is come clean and get it all out in the open.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

whataboutthis? said:


> True, there are a thousand dignified ways to handle it. But like I said, constant physical rejection from your H can leave you not of sound mind. Best thing she can do now is come clean and get it all out in the open.


I think if her posts didn't sound so self indulgent and self righteous the tone of the responses would be way different. She's proud of her choice and that stinks.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think if her posts didn't sound so self indulgent and self righteous the tone of the responses would be way different. She's proud of her choice and that stinks.


:iagree:


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Leelan said:


> Don't folks get it....This forum...made me !
> I am you....I just got tired of crying.


Wrong, OP.

It's people like you that make this forum important for people like us.

You separated yourself from us by thumbing your nose at the one thing we hold most important of all. 

Honesty and faithfulness.

This equates to moral turpitude in the TAM community.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think if her posts didn't sound so self indulgent and self righteous the tone of the responses would be way different. She's proud of her choice and that stinks.


:iagree:

If she approached this with more humility she would get more help than anger. It just struck a chord with me because I've been there...rejected for 8 years from the moment I said "I do" while he contacted escorts and signed up on adult dating sites. So while I don't agree with her choices I am able to overlook the tone because I know the pain of rejection. But I do agree. The tone is very disrespectful to those of us who have been betrayed by adultery.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

You know I am lost. Where on this site does it say to cheat when you are not getting what you want in your relationship? 

Call me old fashioned but I guess if I am not happy in a relationship I try to work it out. If that fails then I am gone. 

Sorry you lost your way and missed the real message of taking care of you. 

Clay


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Leelan said:


> Don't folks get it....This forum...made me !
> I am you....I just got tired of crying.


I generally like to give a somewhat thought out response...but I'll go with this.


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

Should have taken your thread to bluelight, they welcome the whorish lifestyle over there with open arms.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Leelan said:


> ..LD need to know that they had a hand in the making of this. Now my LD can spend three to four years wondering, crying, overeating and all the stuff that goes along with being with someone who looks at you as simply a roommate. ....and yes I am going to live right where I am... No one told him to move because he didn't want to have sex with me ....right ?


Massively wrong assumption. You are expecting your husband to react how you think he should; Standard wayward script thinking.... Crying, destroyed, probably begging you and willing to do anything to get you back. Funny thing... you can’t control that. 

And if you’ve spent one ounce of time here reading.... BH’s might do that at first. But most, if not all, hit that anger stage. You will be treated like dirt, probably dumped, and he’ll start screwing some other girl. That’s how this works. He won’t tolerate a f’buddy. 

The problem here: You looked for a f’buddy and found one. Woot! You husband looking for a relationship and grow old with...... and you just took yourself off the ‘candidate’ list. Your value is a f’buddy which is obviously not what he wants out of you. So you solved your sex problem. Grats! To bad you set your value so low that your veejayjay is your entire worth; something he isn’t interested in.

You are who you are. Sad really. Look in the mirror; You are a good lay, not a good wife. You made you that way. Is that image who you wanted to be?


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

I am able to understand the joy of revenge on an LD partner. 

I just couldn't bear to live with the person I 'broke free' from. 

It's a false freedom , the chains are still in place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Just ... OMG. Just threw up a little in my mouth. Poor guy.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

From victim to violator... great job! You've lost ANY moral high ground you might have had in leaving, and should now be nothing more than ashamed at yourself. On top of that, you'll happily continue to be a leech. ::SPIT::


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Leelan said:


> Check this out.
> I did not put this out for your approval or advice. I just looked back at this website and thought....LD need to know that they had a hand in the making of this.


In other words:

Blame the victim!

LD only had a hand in making a crummy marriage. You decided to escalate.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Leelan said:


> Don't folks get it....This forum...made me !
> I am you....I just got tired of crying.


Wow, I learned and confirmed two things from this thread.

This is the year of "TAM, it is your fault I am a wayward" threads.
Honesty is not the best or only policy, for a few posters.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

Wow, i've never seen someone go off the deep end so well here. Being the HD person dealing with a LD person who doesn't care to fix or work on things, I can empathize with the pain. 

For any HD person constantly rejected, of course your mind wanders off and you sometimes think "maybe ill look somewhere else". Unfortunately Leelan took this to the next level. I think the bolder mover, not easier, but bolder move would have been to slam divorce papers on the counter. The cheating accomplishes nothing, other than a mess that will eventually surface. Well..i guess it accomplishes some short term fun but.. still its like peeing down your leg to keep yourself warm. Good for for a little while, bad for a long while.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Did you guys run OP off already?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Leelan said:


> I will still treat him with the same respect, and I’m not leaving because I like my house!


In what world is deception and marital contamination the "same respect?"

Obnoxious behavior on your part aside, if you love your house, why would you risk losing it by disrespecting and deceiving, your husband?

You love your home, then don't put it at risk by cheating.

If I loved my home i would protect it, not put it on the poker table when I have no cards to play.

You are playing with fire and will lose that home you claim to love.



Leelan said:


> ….But !
> I can no longer allow him to hold me as a celibacy hostage because he’s afraid to be alone.


Then why not ask for an open marriage?

Have you even tried to negotiate? Did he tell you that you had to be a celibacy hostage, or is that your attitude doing that?

Do you know what viagra is?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Did you guys run OP off already?


I think she's run a lot of things off on her own.. including her marriage... 

When this infidelity comes to a head, she is gonna be on the other side of the door of that home she does not want to lose.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

He's a 63 years old dude with erectile dysfunction who went to marriage counseling, told his wife he loved her and didn't want a divorce. He has also cried and admitted he is embarrassed about the erections he does achieve. So, he has sex with her while she is sleep. Wrong, but he did go to counseling with you to work on all aspects of the marriage. He does everything you ask by popping pills, going to counseling and being honest, but he gets rejected because he also doesn't want to be alone? 

So, all of the work and comments don't matter?

I'll admit he sounds beta and approval seeking, but you wanted to cheat. Your cheating it has nothing to do with TAM or your husband.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Did you guys run OP off already?


Naah..I'm still here. 

I am enjoying all the colorful critique...

What I find funny is that when I first joined and before I took the route I currently am on....people were hostile and made about 31 replies calling me pretty much many of the same selfish type names....and after I have picked my course of action.....they still call me the same thing....except now....it's up to 61...and they include pictures....

I do want to apologize to those I have upset...it is rough when you have been the victim of a cheating spouse. Believe it or not...I have been there.

I won't be making anymore comments so don't worry about banning me.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

The hilarious (?) thing is that this woman is the type of person that posters come here to seek advice about!

Also, I've heard of staying together for the kids. But staying together for the HOUSE? Is that what's become of people these days? Possessions are more important than people? And honor?

This woman would rather grow old WITH A HOUSE, than with a human being!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He's a 63 years old dude with erectile dysfunction who went to marriage counseling, told his wife he loved her and didn't want a divorce. He has also cried and admitted he is embarrassed about the erections he does achieve. So, he has sex with her while she is sleep. Wrong, but he did go to counseling with you to work on all aspects of the marriage. He does everything you ask by popping pills, going to counseling and being honest, but he gets rejected because he also doesn't want to be alone?


Are you saying this is Leelan's husband?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Leelan said:


> When I first joined and before I took the route I currently am on....people were hostile and made about 31 replies calling me pretty much many of the same selfish type names....and after I have picked my course of action.....they still call me the same thing


You made selfish choices before, in the absence of some education you will make selfish choices the second time as well.

You are surprised that your choices are selfish?

You make selfish choices. Your next choice will be selfish as well.

You will likely die alone and miserable. That's what happens when people make selfish choices throughout their lives.

What I find interesting is that you think you are the only one deprived here.

Your husband is now deprived of an honest wife and a respectable marriage.

In order to get what you want, you take from him.

This isn't cheating, it's theft.

And you claim he gets your respect? Your lying, sneaking around, contaminating, cheating, and thieving is respectful is it?

God help me i don't want to know how you behave when you disrespect someone.

With all due respect that I can muster here ... 

Do you think that your current behavior is worthy of his affection???

Who would want to have sex with something that contaminates a household in secret?

That's like a walking disease. Who wants to bed that?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

The man is in the September of his years and this is how it goes down for him ... nobody deserves that. Really sad.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Wow, you must be following your heart.

Aren't you special.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> Are you saying this is Leelan's husband?


It is MY personal summary of what she typed about her husband. As we know, everyone will read it differently.


Leelan said:


> My husband and I have been married a little over 6 years, and we dated for two years before we got married. For the past year we have been in marriage counseling because well, …we basically stopped having sex. I tried to talk to him about it and the more I tried to talk to him the more closed up be seemed to become. He would get so upset that we decided that we needed someone to help us talk about what was going on between us. I tried to be the initiator because I understand that my husband is the shy reserved type. I think the turning point for me was during one incident in which I initiated, we were right in the middle of sex, he stopped, just stopped and said he was not feeling anything. That was not the case for me, my body was excited and on the verge…..and my husband just stopped.
> He say s he is finding it harder and harder to keep an erection, and when *I and the therapist suggested medication, he said he had been taking it. (I thought to myself….when? Because we hadn’t had sex) As I said we went to counseling and she assigned us different exercises to try. *She tried to address the fact that he does not seem to initiate sex with me. We did all of the exercises, sensate focus techniques, and even brought some porn videos, in addition to meeting with her faithfully every week. We had our last counseling session in June we had sex two times before that between January and May 2013. We have not had sex since then.
> *I have asked my husband does he love me, and he says yes. I have asked him does he want to be married, or maybe he just does not care for me in that way even though he says he loves me. I have even asked him if he wants to leave, he say no, and starts crying. *
> I am at a loss because I love my husband, but I want my husband to want me and to initiate having sex with me. Yes I can do the initiating, but I am a little gun shy now because he has stopped while we were being intimate more than once, and I don’t know if any of you have every experienced that but it is like having a bucket of ice water thrown on you after you come out of a sauna. It is traumatizing, and I feel my self-esteem has taken a severe hit because of it.
> ...


Read it yourself and draw your own conclusion. Basically, less than 3 months later, she decided to cheat and is blaming her decision on TAM members being mean.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Leelan,

You say your husband is in bad shape physically. You say he is LD.

What if it turns out he has a medical condition like low testosterone that is the underlying cause for his issues? Would that change your thinking at all about your actions? What if he is able to turn things around and decides that he should find himself a f buddy? How are you going to feel about that? You might be reveling in your sexual prowess right now but remember that things change and in your case they might not change for the better.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Basically, less than 3 months later, she decided to cheat and is blaming her decision on TAM members being mean.


Classic, isn't it?

I really hope she meant it when she said she won't be posting any more. It's people like this, sadly, that are the norm in the real world. I hope we DID run her off, because someone with the attitude she has doesn't belong on TAM.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This is a sad commentary on how some people interpret 'for better or worse.' Truly sad. Since when is compassion for sissies? Me? I think it's a strength. This OP has taken the weak path. Poor man.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

I know my wife has said many times she wishes she could bring herself to just have a revenge affair and get it over with. "But she just couldn't live with herself". The irony is that she has been having (at least) an EA for (at least) the past 3 years and just refuses to admit or discuss. She insists on keeping her phone locked and I know for fact she deletes some of the messages from this guy, but...just as an example...reporting from our wireless carrier shows in one week she sent 380 text messages to her 'man friend who is not an affair' and sent 55 to the next closest person. That next closest person was me. That's out of a total of 652 for the week. Show of hands? Affair or not an affair?


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Leelan said:


> Bam !


That was sarcasm, but you wouldn't get that without the tone of voice, would you? Have fun while it lasts, because it's costing you more than you know.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

He could have any number of problems including cancer.

I wonder if OM is going to be by HER bedside when she's old and wrinkled?

Not even a maybe there.

Good luck dying alone.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

thebadguy said:


> I know my wife has said many times she wishes she could bring herself to just have a revenge affair and get it over with. "But she just couldn't live with herself". The irony is that she has been having (at least) an EA for (at least) the past 3 years and just refuses to admit or discuss. She insists on keeping her phone locked and I know for fact she deletes some of the messages from this guy, but...just as an example...reporting from our wireless carrier shows in one week she sent 380 text messages to her 'man friend who is not an affair' and sent 55 to the next closest person. That next closest person was me. That's out of a total of 652 for the week. Show of hands? Affair or not an affair?


I call threadjack


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

wow, what cruelty, poor man loves his wife and like he can't perform for a physical problem she goes and f*ck with a man who only want her *ss.

she could had tried with books like "she comes first" where a man can learn to satisfy a woman just with oral, but no she opted to go a destroy the man in a way any other human would.

when I read this kind of OPs I can not help to think that those web pages of players are right, and I am quoting here:

*"getting married is for idiots, women are never satisfied, just look at them like f*ck toys, in the end the end they are selfish and they just want a stupid provider and then keep ****ing with whoever giveds them attention, they can help themselves is in their loose nature to keep looking for sexual partners to mate with different genes, they dream about love but crave for male attention."*

again this are not my thoughts but, I do accept that I have visted those web sites specially when I was Young and I had lost faith in humans and human relationships and had the idea to get pregnant a women to have sons but without marriage.

but looking at this OP and threads like x-beta man when if your body suffer a problema those women don't think twice in looking male attention in other place, make me trigger and think that those players that live under that ideology are right.

I am kind of depressed now, going outside to clear my head.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You go girl. He deserves what he gets. He had to know that this was the eventual consequence of his choices.


I hate that "you go girl" crap, and I'll admit up front I'm not reading all of these posts of people hammering the OP, but yeah. If you get roped into a marriage under false pretenses, then do what you need to do to get over it. You shouldn't have to so fatally disrupt the lives of you and your loved ones because your spouse turned selfish. 

One life. That's all you get. Do what you have to do to be happy. One more vote in favor of the OP.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

MrK said:


> You shouldn't have to so fatally disrupt the lives of you and your loved ones because *your spouse turned selfish. *
> One life. That's all you get. Do what you have to do to be happy. One more vote in favor of the OP.


explain to me how having ED and physical problems is selfish


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrK said:


> I'm not reading all of these posts of people hammering the OP, but yeah. One more vote in favor of the OP.


How dare someone get sick and older. :lol:


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MrK said:


> I'm not reading all of these posts of people hammering the OP, but yeah.


Methinks perhaps you should.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

MrK said:


> One more vote in favor of the OP.


Actually just one, not "one more". Perhaps I should have bolded my sarcasm font.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

How about some more pictures? Here's one...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Wow so... Since my wife doent give me enough sex i get to go cheat?

Uh huh.

You coulda just divorces him. Then again.  Drama drama drama.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Leelan said:


> Check this out.
> I did not put this out for your approval or advice. I just looked back at this website and thought....LD need to know that they had a hand in the making of this. Now my LD can spend three to four years wondering, crying, overeating and all the stuff that goes along with being with someone who looks at you as simply a roommate. ....and yes I am going to live right where I am... No one told him to move because he didn't want to have sex with me ....right ?
> I had to under his LD reign.
> Yes....I have gone straight up crazy....and it feels good !


I've said all along a woman with a high romantic interest in her husband typical doesn't cheat. I've said that bad treatment, (includes a bunch of stuff I'm too lazy to list) can be the impetus to cheating. Male or female, if you expect your spouse to roll over and play dead, because you decide youre not gonna put the effort in it and no longer interested, you may be in for a disappointment. He's a victim of his own neglect.
The only thing else my girl is its just a matter of time before you're gonna ditch your apathetic old man. You've already mentally left. When you get to a point where you hate the way he smells, and you will, I'll give it 48 hours before you walk.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

This thread really restores my faith in humanity.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> I will still treat him with the same respect


:wtf: Respect? Respect? *Respect*? *Respect*?

Really? You call that respect? 

Just divorce him. That might show at least a modicum of respect.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

MrK said:


> If you get roped into a marriage under false pretenses, then do what you need to do to get over it.


He's twelve years older than her. In what world is that a false pretense?

Does he have to show her his drivers license every morning to remind her?

The only thing selfish here is ignorance.

The amount of selective fact assessment here is staggering.

He is getting old and has health issues.

What would she do if he got cancer? Bang a football team?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Leelan, due to heath issues that afflict my wife, we rarely have sex.

Did I take a lover? No. I take care of myself, instead.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actually just one, not "one more". Perhaps I should have bolded my sarcasm font.


I read the sarcasm perfectly, maybe MrK needs to twiddle some knobs on his monitor.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Leelan, due to heath issues that afflict my wife, we rarely have sex.
> 
> Did I take a lover? No. I take care of myself, instead.


Wow your hits JUST KEEP ON COMING. Dont they. Dorry dude. Mucho respecto!


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Lady Leelan,

Ignore these bitter angry losers. You and your wonderful husband deserve each other. Stay married FOREVER!

No one in the general public could ever deserve the true and untouched love you two so clearly share.

Stay in that palace of pleasure called your house, and continue to ignore the reality of the outside world. 

Who needs the world when your love is that deep, anyway?

Tonight, as i will do, UNTIL MY DYING DAY, l shall pray to the good lord above, for your continued success in love.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> If you don't care how anyone feels other than yourself.. why post?
> 
> Not being snarky.. but why bother?


Exactly. Makes you wonder.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

What happened to "in sickness and in health..." ???

I guess that has now become : 

_In sickness, and in health.. unless I don't get banged enough, in which case I will lie, disrespect you, and collude with strangers behind your back, exposing you to STD's without your knowledge or consent...

And when I slip up so clumsily that i get caught... I will just blame YOU...
_

What wonderful sentiments to share with one another.. I am touched...


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

Leelan said:


> I hope those that read this know how bad he messed up with that response kind of response….but if you don’t
> I really don’t care anymore…because that was the last straw for me.


Then why post about it? 

-ol' 2long


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

When I read OP's posts all I see is pain. She wants her hb and her self esteem is in the toilet; why haven't they explored other ways to satisfy her if he can't keep an erection? I think all of the posts insulting her aren't helpful; true the path she's chosen isn't the honorable thing to do and is not going to end well for her but calling her names accomplishes nothing. I do think she should tell him, or at least ask him how he'd feel if she discreetly got her needs met elsewhere; based on what I've read of her posts I don't know that he'd care. If he's walking around with his pajamas up to his neck so she won't come on to him he might be relieved. .He doesn't want to be alone and he's not alone, and it sounds like at this point he prefers a roommate situation; sure he's taken pills to try but it's not because he wants to. I don't think the path she's chosen is ultimately going to work out well for her but I understand how she got there. OP, why wouldn't you just file for divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Leelan said:


> Don't folks get it....This forum...made me !
> I am you....I just got tired of crying.


sadly Leelan you are crying. All over TAM.

I hope you get over your anger and sadness.

And when you do you tell your LD Husband all the truth.

Then hand him the D papers.

But until then keep living the lie.

HM


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I understand Leelan's in pain and got a raw deal. But we know, SHE knows, that she chose the wrong path. She's not mad at us or her H. She's mad at herself. And until she can come to grips with that, she won't be in good shape.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I find it interesting how confident people can be in their convictions while being obnoxiously deceitful at the same time.

They are so sure they are in the right, but they don't have the guts to be honest about it.

What kind of conviction is that when you have to hide it?

Just sounds criminal to me.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> lifeistooshort said:
> 
> 
> > When I read OP's posts all I see is pain. She wants her hb and her self esteem is in the toilet; why haven't they explored other ways to satisfy her if he can't keep an erection? I think all of the posts insulting her aren't helpful; true the path she's chosen isn't the honorable thing to do and is not going to end well for her but calling her names accomplishes nothing. I do think she should tell him, or at least ask him how he'd feel if she discreetly got her needs met elsewhere; based on what I've read of her posts I don't know that he'd care. If he's walking around with his pajamas up to his neck so she won't come on to him he might be relieved. .He doesn't want to be alone and he's not alone, and it sounds like at this point he prefers a roommate situation; sure he's taken pills to try but it's not because he wants to. I don't think the path she's chosen is ultimately going to work out well for her but I understand how she got there. OP, why wouldn't you just file for divorce?
> ...


What we know here is that she is cheating on her husband without his knowledge and feels completely justified. She seems to feel he is getting what he deserves. If he won't care then just tell him.

I guarantee that I have endured a longer period of a sexless marriage than she has. I've felt all the anger, loss of self-esteem, loneliness that she has and then some. It wasn't what I signed up for. My choices are to fix it, accept it or end it. She does NOT deserve to be betrayed just so I can selfishly get my rocks off.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Leelan, while I get that you're in pain, have been shafted in your marriage, I also know that you are choosing the wrong path. That you will NOT be happy in the long run if you don't come clean to your H about your on-the-side activities or, at the very least, divorce him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Also, am I understanding correctly that your H is much older and that he is having to use meds to get an erection?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

turnera said:


> I understand Leelan's in pain and got a raw deal. But we know, SHE knows, that she chose the wrong path. She's not mad at us or her H. She's mad at herself. And until she can come to grips with that, she won't be in good shape.


You said it loud and clear!!...but will add, she's probably still mad at that raw deal. 


~ sammy


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Just because he can't get an erection does not make it OK to ignore her desire for intimacy, or her desire to talk about it.. Him choosing to not give a **** about his wife is better than her choosing not to live with it? I don't understand that.

And it's not just about the sex. Sure, I can get off all I want with internet porn. But that doesn't help my need to feel wanted. What I wouldn't give to find a woman who desires me. And I shouldn't feel forced to abandon my home, kids and life just because she doesn't give a crap.

Yes, the OP is uncomfortably "in your face" and callous about it, but pent up anger will do that. But I have no problem with her decision.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Leelan said:


> The last time I was on this site was in November…and I was depressed as Hell!!
> I wrote about all of the thing I had been going through with my husband, and how frustrated
> And emotionally lonely and I tired I was from his behavior…or should I say lack of behavior.
> 
> ...



I totally sympathize for you. You are a high drive sexy woman who only wanted her hubby to love her back the same way. Doing fun sexy things together, spicing it up, surprises, romance, basically your hubby taking care of your needs. He didn't do this because he is LD and didn't change much at all. This took its toll on you and you are sexually starved. He still didn't change much, yet he is supposed to take care of your needs as his own. You then had enough and found a fbuddy. You're having the best sex in your entire life in a short time compared to 3+ years of being married to hubby. I sympathize.

When getting married, the LD spouse is to take care of their HD spouses needs as their own, out of love and not duty. A 50 / 50 balance must be must by the LD spouse at all times or they shouldn't of got married in the first place because it's selfish and destructive to any marriage.

Your hubby is to take care of himself, being fit, muscular, sexy, for you. He is to rock your world and if he is having issues getting it up, he goes to the Dr., get meds, or buys you the best vibrators out there to rock your world, gives you oral all the time and he could even wear a strap on. He has to take care of business in the bedroom.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

MrK said:


> Just because he can't get an erection does not make it OK to ignore her desire for intimacy, or her desire to talk about it.. Him choosing to not give a **** about his wife is better than her choosing not to live with it? I don't understand that.
> 
> And it's not just about the sex. Sure, I can get off all I want with internet porn. But that doesn't help my need to feel wanted. What I wouldn't give to find a woman who desires me. And I shouldn't feel forced to abandon my home, kids and life just because she doesn't give a crap.
> 
> Yes, the OP is uncomfortably "in your face" and callous about it, but pent up anger will do that. But I have no problem with her decision.


You have spoke with her husband to get his opinion on what's going on their home have you?

You make a decision for a woman to cheat on her husband without even hearing what HE has to say?

You think she's perfect and just getting neglected? You just bought her victim story hook, line, and sinker.

You "don't understand it" because you can't. You don't have the whole story here. All you have is one cheating woman's victim-laced explanation of what's happening in their home. And you smile and sign off on it as a legitimate response to her version of the situation.

What the heck kind of fair reasoning is that?

When her husband arrives here for support after he catches her in bed with another man I guess we send him to you for an explanation then?

If she will lie to her husband, she will LIE to YOU.

Don't buy her sorry-arse victim story. Promiscuous behavior is not a legitimate response. She may have legitimate complaints but cheating her husband is not a solution. You really need to smarten up.

You say you "love [your] house" Leelan? Then EARN it. Right now you are STEALING your home and you should be ashamed of yourself. Earn it by being honest and monogamous. If you can't be monogamous, then leave the home and have your sleazy sex someplace else. You have already taken your husband's commitment and dashed it to pieces. You can at least leave him with some dignity and stop humiliating him. Leave the home and your husband and go have your sex someplace else.

:rant:


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

MrK said:


> Just because he can't get an erection does not make it OK to ignore her desire for intimacy, or her desire to talk about it.. Him choosing to not give a **** about his wife is better than her choosing not to live with it? I don't understand that.
> 
> And it's not just about the sex. Sure, I can get off all I want with internet porn. But that doesn't help my need to feel wanted. What I wouldn't give to find a woman who desires me. And I shouldn't feel forced to abandon my home, kids and life just because she doesn't give a crap.
> 
> Yes, the OP is uncomfortably "in your face" and callous about it, but pent up anger will do that. But I have no problem with her decision.


I think that people are just pointing out other options that are available to the OP. The particular option she has chosen has very high costs attached to it. When it comes out, the fall out will likely be massive. Both for her partner, and for her. She can do what ever mental sleight of hand she wants, but that won't change the fact that no one deserves that kind of betray. that level of dishonesty from their spouse. It's a ****ty way to treat someone, no matter how you look at it. And it will come back to her, because it is her choice.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Why did your previous marriages end? Are you happy with the impermanence of these significant relationships? So you think any mistakes you are making contribute to these failures?


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

MrK said:


> Just because he can't get an erection does not make it OK to ignore her desire for intimacy, or her desire to talk about it.. Him choosing to not give a **** about his wife is better than her choosing not to live with it? I don't understand that.
> 
> And it's not just about the sex. Sure, I can get off all I want with internet porn. But that doesn't help my need to feel wanted. What I wouldn't give to find a woman who desires me. And I shouldn't feel forced to abandon my home, kids and life just because she doesn't give a crap.
> 
> Yes, the OP is uncomfortably "in your face" and callous about it, but pent up anger will do that. But I have no problem with her decision.


I find myself in agreement with MrK. The problem is the H. What do we normally tell wives who have totally lost any desire for sex?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrK said:


> Just because he can't get an erection does not make it OK to ignore her desire for intimacy, or her desire to talk about it.. Him choosing to not give a **** about his wife is better than her choosing not to live with it? I don't understand that.
> 
> And it's not just about the sex. Sure, I can get off all I want with internet porn. But that doesn't help my need to feel wanted. What I wouldn't give to find a woman who desires me. And I shouldn't feel forced to abandon my home, kids and life just because she doesn't give a crap.
> 
> Yes, the OP is uncomfortably "in your face" and callous about it, but pent up anger will do that. But I have no problem with her decision.


Then why doesn't Leelan divorce her husband and find a man more "suited" to her? Could it be because he provides her with a lifestyle that she desires and she's not willing to give that up in order to satisfy her carnal urges? Isn't that the definition of a cake eater?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> I find myself in agreement with MrK. The problem is the H. What do we normally tell wives who have totally lost any desire for sex?


Really???!!! She's remorselessly cheating on her husband and you think the HUSBAND is the problem?

Have you been on Kameron's thread???!!!

Do the math. The selfishness and deceitful behavior is their problem now. A much bigger problem than they had before.

And you are enabling the cheating to continue signing off on it like that.

The cheating, the big problem right now is not going to end well for either of them.

And people are here worried about his sex drive????!!!


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

bfree said:


> Then why doesn't Leelan divorce her husband and find a man more "suited" to her? Could it be because he provides her with a lifestyle that she desires and she's not willing to give that up in order to satisfy her carnal urges? Isn't that the definition of a cake eater?


I call them thieves.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Allen_A said:


> You have spoke with her husband to get his opinion on what's going on their home have you?
> 
> You make a decision for a woman to cheat on her husband without even hearing what HE has to say?
> 
> You think she's perfect and just getting neglected? You just bought her victim story hook, line, and sinker.


Seriously? This is the first thread in the history of this forum where I'm not able to make a decision based soley on what the poster says? 

:scratchhead:

We do that ALL THE TIME here dude. There's nothing else we CAN do.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: I know this is not going to go over well…but*



MrK said:


> Seriously? This is the first thread in the history of this forum where I'm not able to make a decision based soley on what the poster says?
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> We do that ALL THE TIME here dude. There's nothing else we CAN do.


Part of what I do when I view a thread is to try to discern whether the information posted is based in reality. I analyze and apply my own experiences in order to try to understand the situation so that I can give the poster helpful advice. We all have perceptions and I might be able to offer the OP a different perception than the one they came to TAM with. So I don't believe we immediately make decisions based solely on the information posted. We ask questions and offer dissenting viewpoints in order to bring the ultimate truth to light. Based on your post above I'm assuming that you don't do that. All I can say is that I would much rather use a critical eye and offer helpful advice than stand around on the sidelines like a cheerleader. But to each his/her own I guess.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

What a load of crap. But it was fun reading, kept me busy on the bus lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Poster ain't coming back.
3 posts out of 9 pages.

Time to close this one I think?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

She said she wasn't coming back a few pages ago.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Update: 
I just read one of the threads where a guy admitted he cheated but because it wasn’t that good he felt a little guilty. My crime was my tone, and anger and frustration, and the fact that I enjoyed the release of it. 

No one jumped on him the way they did my post. Yes I am angry and in pain….but the forum says… and I quote…………. *“The Coping With Infidelity forum is an area for both betrayed and wayward spouses to post about, and discuss the circumstances and very powerful emotions surrounding infidelity. For those that choose to participate in or contribute to these discussions, it is very important to be aware of your own circumstances in relation to, or how they differ from others”. *

Me now being categorized as the wayward spouse… The anger many of you have shown me is for the person that has victimized you…but I am not that person. I don’t know if that person tried to get you to change before they went out and did whatever they did…only you can answer that. 

That might even be a good thread to start…..what were you thinking when your spouse begged you to change and be intimate with them….before they cheated…. Lord knows I sure could use and would appreciate the insight. 

I know that cheating is wrong and goes against our wedding vows…but my husband took those same vows as well and he vowed to look after me and my EMOTIONAL/PHYSICAL needs….after we joined…..I moved away from everything …invested everything……to be with him.

He changed the rules….without even consulting me or considering how it would affect me….left me alone…..while standing right next to me. 
Yet I am the one expected to rip away everything I have established based on his deception…I am the immoral one…because I ..DESIRE and grew so weak and tired from it until I acted on it…..because excuse me pretending to enjoy intimacy , bonding with your spouse ..and sex and then turning around reveling yourself as apathetic and fridge is deception as well. 

He is not sick….so kill the noise on that one…had a checkup and all levels are normal. Won’t take pills because they give him a headache and won’t read any suggested material…(even suggested from this website)…because it’s not in the library and would cost him to purchase a “New Book”. 

By all accounts he's the picture of a nice guy….and some people would and will say ahw….your wife cheated on you poor guy…she must be a ****….but the emotional torture, lack of attention and affection, with no intimacy that my victimized betrayed spouse actually shows me is something that needs to be exposed…and talked about. Hurt animals don't strike out in pain for nothing. 

The only time he may be ready to talk and I mean truly talk is after he has been embarrassed and ashamed that his wife went to find comfort in another man’s arms….because he would not let her into his…..when I have begged, pleaded, cried, asked him to learn, read, join in anything and everything to make the marriage work. Being rejected again and again, night after night by your spouse is also embarrassing and shameful. 

My husband will never come here at least not until something major forces him to come here…he won’t change. I’ve decided that I’m not telling him anything about the 3X I met up with someone….He lied about his level of passion and intimacy for me….maneuvered me into marrying him, distant, closed mouthed and apathetic about changing his behavior and has barely had sex with me in the last 3 or so years ………….I had sex 3 times with someone else…matrimonial vows broken on both sides….so were even. 

I do know I have to leave…So that is what I will be working on next, and maybe divorce papers may motivate him...

I know I said I would not comment, but a couple of your comments help me come to this conclusion about what I need to do for myself .

To live like this for another 10 or 15 years just because I’m over 50 does not mean I am dead….I’m not. 
I had high hopes for this one because they say the third time is the charm. I know I still sound angry…and that’s because I am…and I am sure I will be angry for a while…..this is not the life with my husband I wanted or planned and I am pissed about it. But continuing on this way will make me continue to do things I don’t really want to do. 

Ps…Someone asked what happened to my other marriages.
My first husband was murdered and my second died of stomach cancer....I don't think I had anything to do with those outcomes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm sorry for your losses. That's terrible.

And Leelan, it WAS because of your tone that you got jumped on. I hope you can see that. If someone comes here and shows humility and willingness to learn or understand, they get treated better than when someone comes and *****es us out before we even comment. You get more with honey...


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You seem a bit torn about it now. You imply your actions were that of someone worn down, weak and tired. You don't need an excuse here. You don't need our approval, you will probably never get it from a betrayed, nobody deserves that. You didn't deserve the betrayal you felt. You make your own choices, you live with the consequences. You make mistakes, you learn, you move on, you try again. You don't have to justify it to us. It's not us staring back at you in the mirror.


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## Catfish1986 (Oct 26, 2013)

LeeLan,


It's called Emotional Abuse. I know because I did it. 

I had LowT for years. It caused many of the same things you see from your Husband, Low Drive, Depression, lack of Passion. It was like I was in a Fog.

Has your Husband been tested for LowT?

FYI, I posted this on your other thread.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Leelan said:


> Me now being categorized as the wayward spouse… The anger many of you have shown me is for the person that has victimized you…*but I am not that person.*


No, you are not "that" person, but you personify that person.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

You start a thread called "I know this is not going to go over well but..." and then you act surprised at the responses you get.

Who are you arguing with? Who are you trying to convince? Is this your way of rationalizing something that you deep down don't feel is right? 

Yes, you have a right to want sex. No, you don't have a right to get it behind your spouse's back, and your rationalization about giving him what he "wants" since he "doesn't want to be alone" is pure B.S.. Yes, you have a right to leave your spouse if you're unhappy. So leave your spouse. I don't know what you're looking for here.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

I am looking for the right to talk about and vent and share my confusion and frustration just as you do.

As I said...and whether you agree or not...this focus forum is for Betrayed and Wayward to discuss what they need to in the evolution of their relationships...You do not have the right to silence my pain. 

I know I am not an anomaly....even though your type of rancor tries to make me feel so.

You don't agree...fine. You step back....
Let someone who has been where I am at in this point of my relationship and gotten thru it speak to me instead of you.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Catfish1986 said:


> LeeLan,
> 
> 
> It's called Emotional Abuse. I know because I did it.
> ...



He said he has gone to the doctor and all of his test and levels are within normal range for a man his age. He said.....they said there is no reason they can find...for him not to be able to perform sexually...that he could take things like Viagra if he felt he needed it. My husband says Those pills give him headaches...so he doesn't take anything.

If you give him an option he gives you and excuse...as to why he cannot do something.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

badmemory said:


> No, you are not "that" person, but you personify that person.


As do you by not understanding that you are not the only one with hurt angry feelings or the right to express them.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Without bashing you I would just recommend you end your marriage. If your husband can not meet your needs it is your right to move on with your life and be happy. 

I understand it might be difficult to do that but cheating is not really making things better. 

I hope you can see that. 

Clay


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> Without bashing you I would just recommend you end your marriage. If your husband can not meet your needs it is your right to move on with your life and be happy.
> 
> I understand it might be difficult to do that but cheating is not really making things better.
> 
> ...


Yes I do.


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## Catfish1986 (Oct 26, 2013)

Did he go to Urologist? 

Regular GP Docs are sometimes not up on LowT treatments.

What was his a Testosterone number?


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Sorry if this has already been asked, as I don't have time to read through all of the threads right now... But what about your AP? 

While I realize the commitment you made was with your H, you are messing with the heart and feelings now of two people instead of working on yourself. 

Maybe right now he is just a FBuddy, but what if either of you get attached? You are opening your H up for a world of hurt, and putting your FB in a position where he could get hurt as well. 

You are incredibly selfish. You are not the only one with feelings, but yours are the only ones that you are thinking about.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Yes definitely D. It may give him the kick in the butt he needs to make himself ready for the next woman in his life.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

Leelan,

I'm glad you are back. As I said in one of my earlier posts, I understand the pain and the frustration of being turned down by your husband (for me it was for 8 years). I believe you were at a point of rage and you acted upon it. Now you are coming down off of that. But it sounds like its done and over with and you are on the other side looking for better solutions. 

Now it's about doing the right thing for you and for him. I think you have come to that conclusion. The right thing for you both may very well be divorce. In the end its about changing your circumstances in the direction of peace and happiness. Those things don't happen over night. 

You are brave. Not many people would face this group head on with a post like yours. Don't underestimate your strength...just harness it to bring yourself joy versus pain, peace versus turmoil, and love versus hate.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I think you mean being non-abusive. She doesn't need to do anything else for him. The divorce is for her. She chose to stray. It was her decision. She is/was very unhappy and abused. She was angry and vengeful. She has gotten even in her mind. It's time to end it on an even field.
> 
> Do the right, just and lawful things. Get the divorce and work on yourself.


Yes, that's what I meant. The right thing for both is most likely divorce.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: I know this is not going to go over well…but*



Catfish1986 said:


> Did he go to Urologist?
> 
> Regular GP Docs are sometimes not up on LowT treatments.
> 
> What was his a Testosterone number?


He needs to go to an endocrinologist.

Leelan, normal testosterone doesn't exist. Each man has his own normal level. One man may be a 300 another man may be a 700. Both are in the normal range. If the man who had a normal level of 700 tests at 400 the doctor will say it's normal but for him it is not and he won't be able to get an erection. I guarantee that this is probably what is going on with your husband. He needs to follow up with a more qualified doctor.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't know. Seems to me that OP's H was not who she expected him to be, gets mad and cheats. Seems like a poor justification for cheating if you ask me, and no this post is going over well with me. It does seem like a valid reason for D, but not for cheating. I do understand. I have seen people turn to sex, drugs, booze, etc. But it is a self destructive path and really has no redeeming quality at all.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> She needs to get a divorce. Helping him now is just patronizing and degrading. It will harm him more. Please don't do that. I'm asking nicely.
> 
> Work on yourself. Let him be, now. You did the damage. Accept your responsibility and move forward to heal yourself and live happily without him in your life. Please be kind to yourself and focus on you and not him.


I agree with that...the therapist wanted me to call him to get him back into the sessions with me. 

I told her no...enough. The sessions are about me now, if he chooses to see her on his own...fine.

So last week I started my sessions.


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## Catfish1986 (Oct 26, 2013)

I couldn't have said it better.

Your quote from saying he's Normal and could take Viagra just does not make sense. It sounds like denial. I was in denial also. 

If you love him and want the old him back, take him to the Dr yourself! Make him go. Make him show you the results.

After he gets treated he will be a Different person. 

Is your marriage worth trying this? Only you can answer.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Catfish1986 said:


> I couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Your quote from saying he's Normal and could take Viagra just does not make sense. It sounds like denial. I was in denial also.
> 
> ...


If you're a guy do you know how hard it is to convince one to go the doctor. I wanted to go with him, especially since he finds every excuse in the book as to why he cannot do something. He told me he was a grown man and could get to the doctor on his on....I am not a hard a**, just a frustrated one...so I stepped back and let my husband tell me what happened when he came home. 
Everything I have said is what has been reported to me from him.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Leelan said:


> That might even be a good thread to start…..what were you thinking when your spouse begged you to change and be intimate with them….before they cheated…. Lord knows I sure could use and would appreciate the insight.


I'll respond and leave my snarky remarks at the door this time.

I'll give you my take but from a different perspective. 

I am the BS. I was also the HD spouse in a sexless marriage. For, several years our sex life was reduced to once a month, or every other month. The only time it happened was when she was drinking.... heavily. I never cheated on my wife, never even considered it. (But oddly enough she was the one that had the affair.) Instead, I checked out of the marriage emotionally. I didn't meet her needs emotionally, was unsupportive and disengaged. I had no clue as to how much damage I was doing to the relationship and just how far it would push her. The obvious happened, she disconnected also and found emotional support from another man. A very serious EA developed that nearly tanked the marriage. At the time of discovery, everything collapsed and the marriage went completely sexless for 2 years. The last time I approached her for sex she said, "The thought of you touching my that way repulses me." My, didn't that make for a very special Father's Day! A two year drought followed with no more than a peck on the cheek or the lips if it suited her. Again, I never considered having sex with another woman unless the marriage failed in divorce.

While there are valid arguments that you/he might address several factors, low-T, general health, medical.... The one that fixed us was attending to each other's needs. We quit doing that and the two core issues, sexual needs, emotional need snowballed enough to completely engulf all aspects of the marriage. Enough that we both were able to rationalize our poor behavior. And this is what you have done, rationalized something that is almost always a death sentence for a marriage. I won't give you a pass for that, but I do understand your thought process. It's quite common.

My wife and I recovered with several years of R. We are now very happy in our marriage as she gets the emotional support from me she desires and our sex life is greatly improved. My advice to you is to read up on concepts like "His needs, her needs", and the five love languages and see if there is something missing between the two of you that is causing a unhealthy chain of events. The marriage you describe is a classic example of what happens when a couple loses track or just doesn't care about each others needs.

Good luck.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And Leelan

If sex in your relationship is so important to you then stop taking his "NO" for an answer.

Stop using infidelity to medicate your emotions or physical needs.

I was ED problems two years back. My wife got tired of my LD and attention to her in the bedroom.

She confronted me by asking if I was no longer attracted to her anymore.

I said. No. 

She then asked me what my problem was and I said I cannot get hard. I was embarrassed. I also mentioned a few other physical things that were happening to my body.

She did not go out and bang some other dude Leelan.

What she did was force me to call in sick and take me to the Doctor like some little kid the very next day. I deserved to be treated that way.

Turns out I was a full blown diabetic.

Thank God she did not take no for an answer.

And fortunately my health and our sex life is on the mend.

Stop running from the issues and stop taking no for an answer.

HM


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: I know this is not going to go over well…but*



Catfish1986 said:


> I couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Your quote from saying he's Normal and could take Viagra just does not make sense. It sounds like denial. I was in denial also.
> 
> ...


EI's husband B1 went through the same thing. Low testosterone absolutely destroys a man and kills his soul. Then it affects all those around him.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

I am really confused as to how....he is abused. Yes I did the deed 3X..but he...is the one withholding and not living up to his matrimonial responsibility for over 4 1/2 years. He is the one who pretended to be someone he was not....then said....surprise....I don't really like sex and so were not going to have it....leaving me blinking and confused as to how WE came to that decision.....I never agreed to that....I would not have said yes to marrying him. 


I accept what I did ....and I've decided about the course of action I am going to take..... but please stop making him a saint in this....you may be the saint in *your scenario*.....I acknowledge your pain at being hurt.....but stop confusing our story.....


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

Leelan,

I notice you are not focusing on the positive comments. You are focusing on the negative ones. This forum is like life. If you look at the positive you will see hope. If you look at only the negative you will feel hopeless.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Yes. Absolutely, positively, he was mean nasty, deceptive, an ass, he fooled you, etc. I do not deny that in the least from your point of view. It is all true and abuse is defined by the one receiving not the one giving. In the least, it's emotional abuse.
> 
> If you asked him if the betrayal made him feel like he had no choice, it hurt him, it harmed his pride, manhood, took away his marital right to you exclusively in direct opposite of what you claim, and you did it on your own and he said yes, would you agree that it was abusive, to him?
> 
> ...


I too am having a tough time understanding exactly how he's being harmed. He's getting everything he wants without the inconvenience of sex; I'm genuinely trying to understand this so help me out. I get how a guy that wants sex with his wife would be upset that she's getting it elsewhere, but why would one that's not interested care? It's not a bond that he wishes to share with his wife. I also feel this way about men; if your wife has zero interest and her hb discreetly gets his needs met elsewhere how is she being harmed? Sex is not something they value. The issue will come in when you have to look at yourself in the mirror, so in a case like this it's actually HER that's being harmed.
Now if she was withholding things that mattered to him one could argue he's being harmed but ironically that's what he's doing to her. you can argue this from a moralistic viewpoint and that argument would have merit, but I don't see where he's being harmed.
I think she should divorce him because what she's doing is not a good solution for her and will likely not end well. And if he happens to divorce her over it, which I find unlikely since what he really wants is to not be alone, she hasn't lost anything.
My ex hb never wanted to talk to me about anything, but then got upset if I talked to anyone else, even my family. .I never understood why he cared, since it wasn't a bond he wished to share with me. In a way I see this the same way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I read the beginning and the last few pages, so if I missed this, I apologize.

Can you give a better description of how he hasn't met your needs.

We can just look at sexually if you want.

What happens if you flirt with him, try to turn him on, etc?
What do you typically do to get sex from him?
How does he respond?

Also are you saying you NEVER have sex with your husband? If you have some sex, how often and what is the dynamics when it happens?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> None of this even matters. It's over. She doesn't love him. The proof is in the affair. He doesn't love her. The proof is in his non-action.
> 
> She found happiness away from him. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> ...


No, I did not have an affair. I ended up meeting someone else but did not get involved with him while still married. I filed for divorce with the full understanding that said person might amount to absolutely nothing, and that was ok because either way the marriage was over.
The reason I didn't carry on while married is because for me there is no sex without an emotional connection, and I'm just not capable of having more than one man in my life. I'm either in or out.....It would have felt sleazy to me, as I suspect it also does to Leelan. But abuse can make you do things; how many men on here have admitted to emotional abuse of their wives because she withheld sex and it made them crazy? So they're somehow better because they didn't have affairs? Not in my view, but I understand because abuse makes people crazy. Some people handle it better than others. We both agree this marriage is over, I just wanted to answer your question. His emotional abuse has made her a little crazy, and while her path isn't honorable she doesn't deserve the vitriol that's been spewed at her. Your posts have been more reasonable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

We're getting close to a thread jack here. Please keep posts directed towards the OP as much as possible. Thanks.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

Leelan said:


> Update:
> 
> Me now being categorized as the wayward spouse… The anger many of you have shown me is for the person that has victimized you…but I am not that person.


No, you're not that person. She was very much like you are now at the time, though.



> I don’t know if that person tried to get you to change before they went out and did whatever they did…only you can answer that.


My W tried 2 get me 2 "change" - i.e., pay her more attention, by telling me she was attracted 2 someone else. Shock of my life 2 hear that news, as unlike you we had a very active sex life. She even asked me "what consti2tes and affair?" Not having ever heard of the term "emotional affair" at the time, I thought I was being helpful when I said "so long as there's no sex..." She may have already gone physical by that point, but she certainly did shortly after that. Her excuse, when I found out 11 years later, was that she thought I didn't care about her. WTF?

You can't change other people, but you might be surprised at what they might do if you're truthful with them. Tell your H about your affair.



> That might even be a good thread to start…..what were you thinking when your spouse begged you to change and be intimate with them….before they cheated…. Lord knows I sure could use and would appreciate the insight.


I was trying 2 be helpful, and like I said, her complaint wasn't about sex, but she had a PA with Rat Meat anyway. Again, her mistake was thinking that she could keep secrets and just hope that I would "change" in2 someone better for her. And since she was keeping this huge secret, I had no reason 2 believe my marriage wasn't just mediocre. If I had known about the affair early on, I would have done something about it. My *perspective* would have changed, even though *I* probably wouldn't have.



> I know that cheating is wrong and goes against our wedding vows…but my husband took those same vows as well and he vowed to look after me and my EMOTIONAL/PHYSICAL needs….after we joined…..I moved away from everything …invested everything……to be with him.


But he doesn't know how bad you think it got, since you haven't told him what you've done. Please don't hold him responsible for what he's not aware of.



> He changed the rules….without even consulting me or considering how it would affect me….left me alone…..while standing right next to me.


I'm sure you can anticipate what I and others might say about this, as BSs. I bet, in his view, he hasn't changed any rules. I'd be willing 2 bet that he's never said 2 you "I'm changing the rules". So, how much of this interpretation of yours is just your perspective, based on your hiding the important act that you've strayed from him?



> Yet I am the one expected to rip away everything I have established based on his deception…I am the immoral one…because I ..DESIRE and grew so weak and tired from it until I acted on it…..because excuse me pretending to enjoy intimacy , bonding with your spouse ..and sex and then turning around reveling yourself as apathetic and fridge is deception as well.


Until he knows the truth, he can't possibly be expected 2 understand the extent of your pain. I agree that you should have the right 2 pursue your desire for a more intimate relationship, but you should have ended this one before starting another one. 



> He is not sick….so kill the noise on that one…had a checkup and all levels are normal. Won’t take pills because they give him a headache and won’t read any suggested material…(even suggested from this website)…because it’s not in the library and would cost him to purchase a “New Book”.


Again, I think he's likely 2 surprise you if you're honest with him. I know i learned more about relationships in the first few months after d-day than I had in the 48 years of my life prior. 



> By all accounts he's the picture of a nice guy….and some people would and will say ahw….your wife cheated on you poor guy…she must be a ****….but the emotional torture, lack of attention and affection, with no intimacy that my victimized betrayed spouse actually shows me is something that needs to be exposed…and talked about. Hurt animals don't strike out in pain for nothing.


Tell him the truth.



> The only time he may be ready to talk and I mean truly talk is after he has been embarrassed and ashamed that his wife went to find comfort in another man’s arms….because he would not let her into his…..when I have begged, pleaded, cried, asked him to learn, read, join in anything and everything to make the marriage work. Being rejected again and again, night after night by your spouse is also embarrassing and shameful.


He very likely will react this way at first. But when he realizes that you harmed yourself more than you did him by your choice 2 have an affair, will you be prepared for THAT rejection? My wife wasn't, even though it was about 8 years after d-day.



> My husband will never come here at least not until something major forces him to come here…he won’t change.


Tell him the truth. And stop expecting other people 2 change FOR YOU. Let them decide what they want and act accordingly. 



> I’ve decided that I’m not telling him anything about the 3X I met up with someone….He lied about his level of passion and intimacy for me….maneuvered me into marrying him, distant, closed mouthed and apathetic about changing his behavior and has barely had sex with me in the last 3 or so years ………….I had sex 3 times with someone else…matrimonial vows broken on both sides….so were even.


Why would you want 2 continue 2 live like this? Tell him the truth, and see what he decides. He may surprise you in a good way. Or: Divorce. But tell him the truth anyway.



> I do know I have to leave…So that is what I will be working on next, and maybe divorce papers may motivate him...


To do what? sign? If you want him 2 respond 2 your issues, tell him the truth so he knows what he's dealing with.



> I know I still sound angry…and that’s because I am…and I am sure I will be angry for a while…


Yes, you do because you are. I see.



> ..this is not the life with my husband I wanted or planned and I am pissed about it.


Okay, so stop blaming him for your current misery and start making healthy choices for your fu2re.

-ol' 2long


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I said it would feel sleazy to me, because I'm allowed to set my own boundaries, just as Leelan can decide what's working for her. I say it feels wrong to her because based on the pain of her posts I can see it's not working for her, and I'm not surprised. She wants a relationship with her husband, and when that is your goal no f!ck buddy is going to fill that void. At the same time I completely understand how she got here, I'm just arguing that the inured party is in fact her. I'm not sure our viewpoints are that far apart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catfish1986 (Oct 26, 2013)

I would suggest that you follow my wife's example. She gave me a clear and blunt ultimatum. She let me know that things had to change quickly or our marriage was going to end.

Men with LowT are in a fog. They are not good at hints or ready situations.

Be clear and blunt!


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Leelan*
> Let someone who has been where I am at in this point of my relationship and gotten thru it speak to me instead of you.


Have you read the thread on this forum titled RECONCILIATION? There is a woman on there named EI that did pretty much the same thing you did because her husband did some of what your husband did. The thread reconciliation was started by EI’s husband B1. They are coming up on 2 years of R and their marriage has made a remarkable come back so far. *She has been where you are and gotten through the point where you are and a LOT more!*

*Even if you do not want too R with your husband EI is a wealth of information and fully understands you.*


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## Dontknowhow2love (Aug 13, 2010)

I am not here to judge. If I was in your situation I can't say what I would do. Have you considered or asked your husband if he is impotent (no pun intended) or have other medical conditions that prevents him from having sex. Have you tried counseling? Men sometimes are embarrassed about these things. Do you think he is cheating?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

You could try this:

Hand him a letter stating,in writing, what you have been telling him for years. Do it as you walk out the door, suitcase in hand. "Sorry this had to end. I tried to fix it. You refused to help. No, sorry, I don't feel it can be fixed. I love you always and will miss you, but I need to move on. I get only one chance at life and I need to make it count. This isn't working. Bye". Then, just to REALLY make your point, have the divorce papers under the letter.

I heard EVERYTHING my wife was telling me about what she hated about me. But there were never any negative consequences. Our lives went on. But I remember the day, THE MOMENT I realized that she didn't love me, hadn't for some time, and was never coming back. AND IT WAS MY FAULT!!!! All of that hit me in a FLASH when I finally forced her to explain why she didn't seem to be trying. I call it my kick in the gut. I changed IMMEDIATELY. No way was I going to be the kind of person who would drive away his bet friend, his life partner, his EVERYTHING. I lost it all in that one terrible moment. Something like that gets your attention. 

He knows what the problems are. He just has NO CLUE that it has driven you away. I have no idea what his reaction will be. But it will get his attention. I GUARANTEE it. And you need to have him FREAK OUT for 6 months or more before you will even ENTERTAIN the idea of returning to him.

He needs to wake up, and a little nudge won't do it. He needs a sledgehammer. I have ZERO doubt of this.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Dontknowhow2love said:


> I am not here to judge. If I was in your situation I can't say what I would do. Have you considered or asked your husband if he is impotent (no pun intended) or have other medical conditions that prevents him from having sex. Have you tried counseling? Men sometimes are embarrassed about these things.


Here's where a lot of the disconnect is happening. It's not that he may be impotent. It's not that he's old. It's not that he's sick. It's not that he may have a legitimate reason for not wanting sex with her. Read my lips:

He.

Doesn't.

Care.

He won't listen to her. He won't try to help her. He broke the vows first. F-him.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Catfish1986 said:


> I couldn't have said it better.
> 
> Your quote from saying he's Normal and could take Viagra just does not make sense. It sounds like denial. I was in denial also.
> 
> ...


His explanations don't make sense to me either, and I agree that he needs to see more qualified doctors. Which has been a part of my frustration with him, when I tried to get him to see another doctor or find other approaches he starts closing down on me saying he has already seen one, or he's already got enough information. It really frustrates me because as you can see when I relay what he has said to me it doesn't make sense to you either.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

Leelan said:


> It really frustrates me because as you can see when I relay what he has said to me it doesn't make sense to you either.


It may be as simple as the fact that he doesn't have a clue how serious an issue this is for you. Don't assume that because you've told him you're frustrated with lack of sex that he understands how frustrated you are.

Tell him the truth. If he knew 2 what lengths you've gone 2 'meet your need' for sex, he might be a lot more willing 2 do something about it. Of course, he might choose 2 leave you. But you're planning on leaving him anyway, so what do you have 2 lose? Your frustration, perhaps?

-ol' 2long


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

whataboutthis? said:


> Leelan,
> 
> I notice you are not focusing on the positive comments. You are focusing on the negative ones. This forum is like life. If you look at the positive you will see hope. If you look at only the negative you will feel hopeless.


Thank you, and you're right..which is why I started writing, again. 
Some of you have been great and given me a lot of helpful advice and suggestions from perspectives that let me know YOU DO UNDERSTAND ....how and why I am in the place I am currently in and that is what I have started to focus on.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> Have you read the thread on this forum titled RECONCILIATION? There is a woman on there named EI that did pretty much the same thing you did because her husband did some of what your husband did. The thread reconciliation was started by EI’s husband B1. They are coming up on 2 years of R and their marriage has made a remarkable come back so far. *She has been where you are and gotten through the point where you are and a LOT more!*
> 
> *Even if you do not want too R with your husband EI is a wealth of information and fully understands you.*


Thank you. I will go and check that tread out.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Dontknowhow2love said:


> I am not here to judge. If I was in your situation I can't say what I would do. Have you considered or asked your husband if he is impotent (no pun intended) or have other medical conditions that prevents him from having sex. Have you tried counseling? Men sometimes are embarrassed about these things. Do you think he is cheating?


Yes I have asked all of those questions, and more even down to wondering if he ...might be in denial about which gender he prefers. I do not think he is cheating, and a part of me wishes he was....it would indicate to me he does have an interest...and I can work from there. I have asked him if he was into porn or something.....he got very upset and said he doesn't watch that stuff. We even looked at if maybe he was suffering from depression...
The bottom line seems to be he is unwilling to address whatever may be wrong. I am the one who reads, and looks for ideas and ways to fix whatever is going on between us....I have taken the Love Signs test as one of you suggested...He said he'll get to it. I suggested the married men's sexual manual I found out about from this site. He said he will see what other books they have in the library because he did want to purchase a new book. 
Catfish spoke of a fog...and that is how he behaves...like he's in a fog....but he seems determined to stay there, and snaps at all of my attempts and suggestions. I have even gone so far as to ask him if he even likes me.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

Leelan said:


> Yes I have asked all of those questions, and more even down to wondering if he ...might be in denial about which gender he prefers. I do not think he is cheating, and a part of me wishes he was....it would indicate to me he does have an interest...and I can work from there. I have asked him if he was into porn or something.....he got very upset and said he doesn't watch that stuff. We even looked at if maybe he was suffering from depression...
> The bottom line seems to be he is unwilling to address whatever may be wrong. I am the one who reads, and looks for ideas and ways to fix whatever is going on between us....I have taken the Love Signs test as one of you suggested...He said he'll get to it. I suggested the married men's sexual manual I found out about from this site. He said he will see what other books they have in the library because he did want to purchase a new book.
> Catfish spoke of a fog...and that is how he behaves...like he's in a fog....but he seems determined to stay there, and snaps at all of my attempts and suggestions. I have even gone so far as to ask him if he even likes me.


Not defending everything in this post, but I can really empathize with the first two paragraphs.

My wife is disinterested in sex 90% of the time with me. See my thread I started in the sex in marriage section. Anyways, i have asked her to open up about her perspective of it and I have expressed the hurt from rejection. Her response is "i dont know, im just dont need sex as often". crappy answer. too vague. Like you Leelan, I read the books, I'm working out harder, I'm holding my end of the bargain in the house, etc etc.. for the life of me I cant figure out what she is doing to help resolve the situation. And when I try to talk to her about it every few months, it seems to annoy her. 

Same thing here, I've asked if she likes me and or if shes still in love with me. I've asked if she is even attracted to me. I've since stopped asking these things, as they are likely unnattractive behaviors. 

So the point is, you say your husband is in the fog. I actually think you and I are in a fog, meaning that we dont know what the hell the reason is. We just know that one side of the party has no interest in exploring/fixing/empathizing with it.


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## davecarter (Aug 15, 2013)

Catfish1986 said:


> I would suggest that you follow my wife's example. She gave me a clear and blunt ultimatum. She let me know that things had to change quickly or our marriage was going to end.
> 
> Men with LowT are in a fog. They are not good at hints or ready situations.
> 
> Be clear and blunt!


Cat - what action did you subsequently take to changes things?
And what were the results?


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

MrK said:


> Here's where a lot of the disconnect is happening. It's not that he may be impotent. It's not that he's old. It's not that he's sick. It's not that he may have a legitimate reason for not wanting sex with her. Read my lips:
> 
> He.
> 
> ...


That was brutal honest reality I have been fighting not to acknowledge....I could not have said it better.
I'm going to go dig my car out of the snow.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MrK said:


> Here's where a lot of the disconnect is happening. It's not that he may be impotent. It's not that he's old. It's not that he's sick. It's not that he may have a legitimate reason for not wanting sex with her. Read my lips:
> 
> He.
> 
> ...



Ha, Mr. K and I can see eye to eye on something. This about sums it up.
As long as you don't leave he could give a rats arse, and that leaves you nothing to work with.
The most ironic part is that he probably will be shocked when you leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrK said:


> Here's where a lot of the disconnect is happening. It's not that he may be impotent. It's not that he's old. It's not that he's sick. It's not that he may have a legitimate reason for not wanting sex with her. Read my lips:
> 
> He.
> 
> ...


This is a complete load of crap. You have absolutely no idea how low T affects men. Would you advocate infidelity or divorce if a woman was going through menopause?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Around 1997 I was put on a medication that completely took my libido away. I mean completely overnight. I not only did not care about sex, it was not on my mind at all. I was a very sexually active male up to that point. My wife tried to initiate sex and got p*ssed at me, because I was typically all over her. I had no responce. None, nada. My wife made me get out of bed, get dressed and took me down stairs to look at my meds. We got on the internet and found out that in a low percentage of males, the one med. killed libido. I worked in the health industry and the next day asked a doctor about this med. Without hesitation he mentioned the exact percentage of males that the website stated are affected by this med. He told me to go off it and that within four days everything will return back to normal and to ask my doctor for a different med. I did as he suggested and everything came back to normal.

As I look back on that time, I can still remember that my libido was dead. I had no sexual thoughts, no arousal, nothing.

When my wife got p*ssed, i can say that I did not understand, nor did I really care. My sex drive just went away.

It lasted about 5 days, but I will say that when your sex drive is gone, it is very difficult to think about the needs of the other person. But I did take corrective action. Had I not had a wife who wanted sex, I would not have. It is a weird thing.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bfree said:


> This is a complete load of crap. You have absolutely no idea how low T affects men. Would you advocate infidelity or divorce if a woman was going through menopause?



I would if she was behaving like this guy, and I'm a woman. Besides, we've seen instances of such women on this site and while the husband is always told to be patient because menopause sucks he's also told that he has needs and she can do other things for him, like oral. Which is true. Then factor in that he admitted he didn't want to be alone; if woman said that the board would go crazy because it would imply he's just a paycheck. 
If this guy showed any interest at all in his wife or her needs he'd deserve lots of consideration for his low T. But he has shown zero.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> Around 1997 I was put on a medication that completely took my libido away. I mean completely overnight. I not only did not care about sex, it was not on my mind at all. I was a very sexually active male up to that point. My wife tried to initiate sex and got p*ssed at me, because I was typically all over her. I had no responce. None, nada. My wife made me get out of bed, get dressed and took me down stairs to look at my meds. We got on the internet and found out that in a low percentage of males, the one med. killed libido. I worked in the health industry and the next day asked a doctor about this med. Without hesitation he mentioned the exact percentage of males that the website stated are affected by this med. He told me to go off it and that within four days everything will return back to normal and to ask my doctor for a different med. I did as he suggested and everything came back to normal.
> 
> As I look back on that time, I can still remember that my libido was dead. I had no sexual thoughts, no arousal, nothing.
> 
> ...



Totally get it. But this woman does want sex, and he's still done nothing. You did something when she pushed the issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Leelan,

Boy, I really do understand your frustration. I was in a sexless marriage for 21 years. We maybe had sex 10 times in all those years.

I have two children and it is a total miracle that I have any children.

After the first seven sexless years, I began to wake up and think of divorce. I became pregnant so I stayed.

I too thought my husband must be gay but ashamed so I tried to get the truth out of him. Nothing.

My husband checked out and so did I. I was raising two kids by then.

My husband was mild mannered and home every night. He texted a lot but has nine brothers and sisters, all out of state, so that was normal to us. I always felt bad we didn't live closer to some of his siblings.

Looooong story long, he was cheating on me like crazy. Tons of women off dating websites and prostitutes too.

I was so mad at him for making me jump through hoops trying to help him with his LD or gayness or whatever, when all the while he was most likely laughing behind my back. Reality was, he never cared. He was having a great life while I was miserable.

Because he was checked out of the marriage early, I did the household duties and child raising. It took years, but I created a beautiful home. I loved my home very much. 

When I discovered my husband's affairs, I was beyond devastated and very angry. I knew there could never be a reconciliation. I still have triggers that cause me to mourn the loss of all those years taken from me.

I was in an accident and now in a wheelchair part-time.n I could have had a different life if my husband would have divorced me and set me free to find a true partner.

I've moved on now and no longer live in my beautiful home. I will tell you, I am light years happier than I was. I had a very nicely decorated prison cell. It was very pretty but it was so lonely.

I don't have the beautiful house or the money but I have my old self back. My self esteem and clarity of reality. It's much much better.

I can walk a little bit and I'm not always in need of a wheelchair but I may not attract many guys with my terrible limp. But at least I have the chance now.

I never cheated on my husband even though I had no respect for him. I had respect for myself and cheating wasn't who I was. My fault was staying in an unhealthy marriage for too long.

Give yourself peace. Let go of your anger by letting go of your husband. He doesn't sound like a great guy and it's making you crazy.

You have a chance to have a great life. None of can get those years back. None of us. We can have a future though. A good future!

Get a new house or affordable condo. with clean air and no tension. I love my new place. It's all mine. No weird husband texting in the corner. No conversations ignored. No more feeling like something is wrong with me. No more loneliness!!!! My own rules!! Love it!!

Upon a lot of reflection, I think my husband liked the control of seeing me frustrated. Twisted, I know, but control comes in many forms. 

No harsh words here. Just a plea to let you know I understand the anger and frustration. Find peace and love for yourself. Get out of this unhealthy lifestyle that is taking you nowhere.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Leelan said:


> That was brutal honest reality I have been fighting not to acknowledge....I could not have said it better.
> I'm going to go dig my car out of the snow.


:iagree: I don't think he cares.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I would if she was behaving like this guy, and I'm a woman. Besides, we've seen instances of such women on this site and while the husband is always told to be patient because menopause sucks he's also told that he has needs and she can do other things for him, like oral. Which is true. Then factor in that he admitted he didn't want to be alone; if woman said that the board would go crazy because it would imply he's just a paycheck.
> If this guy showed any interest at all in his wife or her needs he'd deserve lots of consideration for his low T. But he has shown zero.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Low T in a man does not just affect his sex drive. It affect his emotions, his energy levels and his overall attitude toward life. It is a fog that well and truly screws up the thought process. Add to that the embarrassment of having to admit you are not really a man any longer (this is what they believe) and it is no wonder that so many men avoid having their low T treated. My very good friend went though this. He became a completely different person. Once he started treatment he changed back overnight. But it was hell to try to get him to go to the doctor and even then his primary care doctor had no idea how to treat low T and told him he was normal. It was only when we all pressured him over a period of months (almost a year) that he finally relented and went to an endocrinologist. After he started taking testosterone supplements he was back to his normal self within a week. My friend's experience mirrors what EI's husband B1 went through. EI ended up having an affair because of the disconnect she was feeling due to B1's low T. They have now reconciled and are doing fantastic but it took almost destroying the marriage to get him to seek out treatment.

Anyone who has not been through it or been close to someone who has really has no idea how debilitating it is. It is not that he doesn't care as Mr K hypothesizes. It is that his low T makes him almost incapable of caring because his entire thought process is restricted. Low T is extremely misunderstood and it is comments like that that continue to cause damage.

I sympathize with Leelan's plight. I do NOT condone her adultery. But I do think Leelan should begin pursuing divorce. I think her husband needs a huge wakeup call and hopefully he will take action before his marriage is completely destroyed. But don't you (or anyone else) dare minimize the damage that low T causes to men. It is one of the worst things a man can go through especially considering how easy it is to treat. We need to remove the stigma attached to low T treatments so that men AND WOMEN will be happier in their lives and relationships.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Only one side of this story is represented in this thread. It was started by the OP, and seemed to take a self congratulatory tone about engaging in incredibly destructive behavior, having an affair, in a forum full of people coping with the damage that the destructive behavior being celebrated here leaves in its wake.

It is difficult to sympathize with the OP on the issues in question because of the OPs seemingly flippant attitude about her behavior. Given that so many people here understand how complex communication in relationships can sometimes be, is it really that difficult to imagine that the OPs husband is completely oblivious to the gravity of her dissatisfaction in the marriage? If he was asked to read this thread would he know it was about him? Or would he be totally oblivious to the fact that this is such an important topic for her?

The tit for tat approach being advocated by some people here really blows my mind. I would love to see some of them post links to threads where revenge affairs, exit affairs, affairs of any kind, are ever justified and appropriate and have positive outcomes.

When did it become ok to justify crappy behavior by citing the crappy behaviors of others? 

Even if we accept the fact that the OPs husband is not suffering from any kind of sexual disorder, but is simply an a-sexual person, how on earth does it make it ok for the OP to act in this way? 

I've seen the word abuse used frequently in this thread, at any point in time did the OPs husband hold a gun to her head and told her she was not allowed to leave him? If the answer is no, wouldn't this thread be more appropriate for a place like 'asinine maddison' or the former incarnation of 'Dr. un-cool?' 

Affairs are never justifiable, I really thought there was some consensus on that point here on TAM. So what is being discussed here? The OP has been told to come clean to her husband, but has yet to acknowledge the fact that she plans to do so. I may be wrong on this, but what is really left to discuss here? While the OP paints a picture of a man that doesnt respect or care about his vows, her behavior demonstrates that she obviously does not either. So without getting his side of it, can we really figure out who checked out first? My answer is no, and further discussion of this issue seems pointless.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Paladin said:


> Only one side of this story is represented in this thread. It was started by the OP, and seemed to take a self congratulatory tone about engaging in incredibly destructive behavior, having an affair, in a forum full of people coping with the damage that the destructive behavior being celebrated here leaves in its wake.
> 
> It is difficult to sympathize with the OP on the issues in question because of the OPs seemingly flippant attitude about her behavior. Given that so many people here understand how complex communication in relationships can sometimes be, is it really that difficult to imagine that the OPs husband is completely oblivious to the gravity of her dissatisfaction in the marriage? If he was asked to read this thread would he know it was about him? Or would he be totally oblivious to the fact that this is such an important topic for her?
> 
> ...


Are you saying that when you came to this site for whatever reason you had your spouse or partner tell their side of the issue to TAM and you presented yours...and you let TAM decide which story was your actual reality....whether your pain or experience was real. Or if they did not like your story you did not deserved to be helped to find answers. 

Again this area if for both the BS and WS and as much as it may hurt there are two sides....and I get to tell mine too ! No one is condoning adultery...but we are discussing things that go into it, and surround it....and help you get past it ..as outlined by forum rules.

I hope my husband comes to this site because it would mean that he his actually seeking ways to vent, talk and learn...but he won't. Oh....and yes....he would recognize himself in an instant.....down to the crown molding.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Leave.......Yes.......Affair............No.......I think it's as simple as that. I know it's more complicated. This thread, however, I thought was about helping Leelan to get through her issues?
> 
> One of which is, I think, she has to tell her husband she had an affair and why and all the details and let him make an informed decision about whether he wants to stay with her. Isn't it?
> 
> ...


No worries...I appreciate your perspective.
My life and feelings at this point are what they are and
your beliefs and views are where they are


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Leelan said:


> Are you saying that when you came to this site for whatever reason you had your spouse or partner tell their side of the issue to TAM and you presented yours....


No, I was a BS and was searching for how to cope with infidelity. I posted my situation, got advice, discussed said advice with a counselor and acted on the advice that was relevant to me. Once my partner came out of the fog, committed to 100% transparency, NC, and invested some time into our reconciliation, she made an account on this forum and posted. 



Leelan said:


> Again this area if for both the BS and WS and as much as it may hurt there are two sides....and I get to tell mine too !


I dont disagree with you, I simply pointed out that only your version of events has been presented, and the way in which you presented the information left me questioning your ability to objectively reflect on what happened. We dont live with you two, but if I asked him to rate what he thought the importance of physical intimacy and sex was to you on a scale of 1 to 10 where would he rate it? Would it even be the same ballpark as your actual number?



Leelan said:


> No one is condoning adultery...but we are discussing things that go into it, and surround it....and help you get past it ..as outlined by forum rules.


Is there a word other than "condoning" that can be used to describe the following quote?



LeeLan said:


> Revenge,….call it whatever you want…but I went out and found myself…a FBuddy.
> I have had the best sex of my life between the time I last wrote on this website and today. As a matter of fact….I have had more sex in that same timespan….than I have had in the last three years.
> I know this approach might not be for everyone…but if he does not wants to not be alone no problem…I will live and contribute as always. I will still treat him with the same respect, and I’m not leaving because I like my house !….But !
> I can no longer allow him to hold me as a celibacy hostage because he’s afraid to be alone.
> ...


I dunno, maybe I somehow misread that. There have been subsequent replies to your comments that are along the same line of thinking "F-him, he deserves what he gets, you go girl..etc" I can quote those people directly but I'm sure I do not need to. His crime is not wanting to be alone? Ok, even if I take the most shallow and uncharitable interpretation of that statement into account and assume his sole reason for being with you is "fear" of being alone, what are the actual chances that he knows his reply to you on that day offended you to the degree that it did? 




LeeLan said:


> I hope my husband comes to this site because it would mean that he his actually seeking ways to vent, talk and learn...but he won't. Oh....and yes....he would recognize himself in an instant.....down to the crown molding.


In project management, we had to learn that sometimes an idea or task needs to be explained in 4 or 5 different ways because of how dynamically different people are at picking up and absorbing information, and that assumes they are healthy enough to actually process what is being said to them. 

The same ideas are expressed in books like "the five love languages" and illustrate that sometimes couples literally do not understand each other because of how they learned to interpret information.

You say he would recognize that this thread was about him, I wonder what he would say if I asked him to rate what he thinks the importance of sex and physical contact is _to you_ on a scale of 1 to 10.

You use the term "celibacy hostage," what has he done specifically to prevent you from filing for divorce and leaving? I will spare you having to waste your time coming up with an answer and say "absolutely nothing."

Any credibility your plight had ceased to exist the second you willfully chose to step out on him instead of facing the issues head on, and leaving after giving it your best shot.

I will address this point one last time, you said that it is your belief that this forum is for both WS and BS, and the purpose of it is to help people deal with infidelity. You have been told on countless occasions by many people in this thread that your only real option is telling him the truth. If you think this is bad advice, run it by your counselor, I would like to hear what response you would get. 

As far as I understand your point of view, you do not currently plan on telling him anything, so I fail to see how this community could be of further use to you.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Leelan said:


> Are you saying that when you came to this site for whatever reason you had your spouse or partner tell their side of the issue to TAM and you presented yours...and you let TAM decide which story was your actual reality....whether your pain or experience was real. Or if they did not like your story you did not deserved to be helped to find answers.
> 
> Again this area if for both the BS and WS and as much as it may hurt there are two sides....and I get to tell mine too ! No one is condoning adultery...but we are discussing things that go into it, and surround it....and help you get past it ..as outlined by forum rules.
> 
> I hope my husband comes to this site because it would mean that he his actually seeking ways to vent, talk and learn...but he won't. Oh....and yes....he would recognize himself in an instant.....down to the crown molding.


I agree with Paladin. I don't see where he is saying we need both sides, he is simply stating what many have said on TAM for quite a while when we have a WS here telling their story, and that is often a rewrite of the marriage history. We have seen it many times here on TAM. In fact just last week there was a couple on here (she deleted her post). She was the WS and described a horrible M. When he (the BS) responded he stated that the M was not as she described it. 

What I will never understand is how one decides that cheating is the way to go.

I get the fact that your H misrepresented himself. You got M and found out that he was something different and had a "I don't care attitude". You have made that very plain to us. You have made it plain to us that you have tried to get him to do things to fix this issue.

What I don't understand is the cheating. I really don't. Look my wife cheated on me several times in our M, in 1999, then from 2010 till 2013. Honestly, I believe that gives me more a of a right to cheat on her then what you are describing in your M. I would not resort to that.

I have said it before that there is no redeeming quality to cheating.

When a person is frustrated in a M, there are several options, and you chose a poor one. 

I think you did a heck of a lot to try to fix the M. I hear what you wrote and what you did.

IMO, you need to stop the sex outside the M and D your husband. I think you did more then enough to try to salvage the M, but going outside the M was over the top.

There seems to be in your posts a desire for you to have your H discover your A, as revenge for a bad M and for justification of your A's. IMO it just shows poor judgement.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I think if a spouse doesn't have the love and scrooples enough to know that their husband or wife needs sex on a regular basis than they deserve what they get.

And I'm one of those that is sick and tired (pun) of all bad behaviour being blamed on afflictions. ADD ADHD Bi-polar, BPD, co-dependency, etc etc etc. Enough is enough! Treat your spouse like a spouse and not a roomate. If you dont think about sex you have to know something is wrong with you. And if you don't that's on you too. Ever commercial, every movie, every tv program, every book every magazine, every billboard and radio add mentions sex constantly. You'd have to be in a coma not to remember that your spouse needs it.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Paladin said:


> I will address this point one last time, you said that it is your belief that this forum is for both WS and BS, and the purpose of it is to help people deal with infidelity. You have been told on countless occasions by many people in this thread that your only real option is telling him the truth. If you think this is bad advice, run it by your counselor, I would like to hear what response you would get.
> 
> As far as I understand your point of view, you do not currently plan on telling him anything, so I fail to see how this community could be of further use to you.


Actually ...the people on TAM have been very supportive, and understand that sometimes people make mistakes and do ill advised things that need to be corrected. 

Not everyone thinks when you confess something you should be burned at the stake, flogged, walk the plank and walk out into the noon day sun.

I absolutely understand that you will be addressing this point for the last time.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Leelan, what is your rationale for not telling your husband? If you cheated for revenge as you originally stated then telling him will get you that revenge. If you did want to try to save the marriage telling him might be the wake-up call he needs to take action on his marital failures. Frankly the only reason I can see for not telling him is because you are afraid he will divorce you. But if you are that exasperated with your husband and the marriage isn't divorce what you want/need? Is the only reason you aren't telling him so that you can continue to stay in a comfortable marriage and have your "f-buddy" on the side? Please answer as I'm trying to understand.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bfree said:


> Leelan, what is your rationale for not telling your husband?


This. 

The only thing that really matters at this point.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I guess the big question is where to from here?

Leelan, you say you're in therapy and thinking about or making plans to divorce. Have you thought about telling your husband about the affair? How do you think he will respond to that? Do you think either telling him the truth of packing your bags might wake him up and prompt him to actually seek the help he so clearly needs?

What do you want to happen?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

bfree said:


> Leelan, what is your rationale for not telling your husband? If you cheated for revenge as you originally stated then telling him will get you that revenge. If you did want to try to save the marriage telling him might be the wake-up call he needs to take action on his marital failures. Frankly the only reason I can see for not telling him is because you are afraid he will divorce you. But if you are that exasperated with your husband and the marriage isn't divorce what you want/need? Is the only reason you aren't telling him so that you can continue to stay in a comfortable marriage and have your "f-buddy" on the side? Please answer as I'm trying to understand.


:iagree:

Yes please answer this.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I think if a spouse doesn't have the love and scrooples enough to know that their husband or wife needs sex on a regular basis than they deserve what they get.
> 
> And I'm one of those that is sick and tired (pun) of all bad behaviour being blamed on afflictions. ADD ADHD Bi-polar, BPD, co-dependency, etc etc etc. Enough is enough! Treat your spouse like a spouse and not a roomate. If you dont think about sex you have to know something is wrong with you. And if you don't that's on you too. Ever commercial, every movie, every tv program, every book every magazine, every billboard and radio add mentions sex constantly. You'd have to be in a coma not to remember that your spouse needs it.


Yes, yes, all mental illness is made up bullcrap by whiners who "deserve" what they get. Thank goodness for rational compassionate thinking like this. Hormonal imbalance/deficiency, and the physical inability to actually have sex, or process the social ques required to understand that sex is wanted/needed from you, are all made up excuses too. I mean wow, who wants to go through all that trouble of fulfilling their genetic imperative through intercourse and have an orgasm anyway? Show of hands? It is such a grueling act of self torture, that obviously any and every excuse will be used to avoid doing it at all costs. Everyone knows sex is awful, its totally understandable that they would make up non existent ailments to avoid doing it. If you happen to be one of those freaks that actually wants sex, well just go out and get a fckbuddy and problem solved. No muss no fuss, and a nice income to use for renting hotel rooms to have that awful sex in.

[/sarcasm]


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why did Allen_A get banned?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Leeland


If I did tgis right the link to the RECONCILIATION thread is below. Read the posts by B1 and EI they realte to you
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Why did Allen_A get banned?


Not the first time. Not sure what he did or said.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

bfree said:


> This is a complete load of crap. You have absolutely no idea how low T affects men.


My T levels are at record lows. Don't tell me what I know or don't know.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Yes! This is going to end well!


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MrK said:


> My T levels are at record lows. Don't tell me what I know or don't know.


Then that explains your chronic grouchiness.

Seriously, if you have low T then your comment makes even less sense.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

bfree said:


> Then that explains your chronic grouchiness.
> 
> Seriously, if you have low T then your comment makes even less sense.


You had it covered from the beginning, didn't you? Normal T I'm wrong, low T I'm even more wrong. So I guess I'm just wrong. I'll bug out now and leave this to you experts.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Actually, I think Mr. K's comments have been very applicable to what Leelan feels. This is the thread in which his anger and ire is matched by what the OP describes.

However, BFree, that was one funny comment. Come on Mr. k, you have to admit that.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: I know this is not going to go over well…but*



MrK said:


> You had it covered from the beginning, didn't you? Normal T I'm wrong, low T I'm even more wrong. So I guess I'm just wrong. I'll bug out now and leave this to you experts.


Well, I'm not an endocrinologist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bfree said:


> Leelan, what is your rationale for not telling your husband? If you cheated for revenge as you originally stated then telling him will get you that revenge. If you did want to try to save the marriage telling him might be the wake-up call he needs to take action on his marital failures. Frankly the only reason I can see for not telling him is because you are afraid he will divorce you. But if you are that exasperated with your husband and the marriage isn't divorce what you want/need? Is the only reason you aren't telling him so that you can continue to stay in a comfortable marriage and have your "f-buddy" on the side? Please answer as I'm trying to understand.


Wasn't there a TV show called "I Have a Secret?" 

Leelan, is this what helps you to cope? The knowledge that you know something your husband doesn't know? A really, really big secret?:scratchhead:


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Totally get it. But this woman does want sex, and he's still done nothing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And she's STILL not told him the truth.

Try it, I believe you'll be surprised at his reaction.

-ol' 2long


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

(either that, or quit complaining about him)


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

2long said:


> And she's STILL not told him the truth.
> 
> Try it, I believe you'll be surprised at his reaction.
> 
> -ol' 2long


Fundamental difference in our viewpoints here. I don't want my hb to all of a sudden give a sh!t about me because I might leave or I might have someone else. At that point it means nothing to me; why do you think it's so hard to get a checked out wife back? I want him to give a sh!t because I'm his wife and my happiness is important to him, just as his is to me. He knows she's unhappy and still does nothing. But I agree she should tell him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Meanwhile, why is divorce not an option again?


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Fundamental difference in our viewpoints here. I don't want my hb to all of a sudden give a sh!t about me because I might leave or I might have someone else. At that point it means nothing to me; why do you think it's so hard to get a checked out wife back? I want him to give a sh!t because I'm his wife and my happiness is important to him, just as his is to me. He knows she's unhappy and still does nothing. But I agree she should tell him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm speaking from my own experience, of course. It 2k me 11 years 2 discover my wife's affair, after she "tried" 2 get me 2 change. I can say for certain that I would have changed if I really knew how bad off she was, because I did when I found out.

The other very real possibility with disclosure, of course, is that he'll give less of a **** about her after she tells him the truth than he does now. But, once again, what's she got 2 lose whatever he decides? 

In retrospect, the main reasons I didn't end my marriage is I had a lot on my plate when d-day happened (rebuilding our historic home after a major fire and keeping our family intact), she never left me 2 be with Rat Meat, and Rat Meat lived 2 states away, so they only saw each other a handful of times.

But I wish I'd known about the affair when it started while they were in grad school 2gether. I could have divorced her and had another family with someone else.

-ol' 2long


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

MrK said:


> My T levels are at record lows. Don't tell me what I know or don't know.


Record low, eh? So your doctor told you the same thing my husband's told him? "How the hell did we miss that??" 

So... by reading your responses, it would have been perfectly ok for me to get a FB because of my husband's low T, and lack of interest in having sex before it was discovered? Sorry, that's a load of garbage.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

bfree said:


> Well, I'm not an endocrinologist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


OMG!......:rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

2long said:


> I'm speaking from my own experience, of course. It 2k me 11 years 2 discover my wife's affair, after she "tried" 2 get me 2 change. I can say for certain that I would have changed if I really knew how bad off she was, because I did when I found out.
> 
> The other very real possibility with disclosure, of course, is that he'll give less of a **** about her after she tells him the truth than he does now. But, once again, what's she got 2 lose whatever he decides?
> 
> ...



I'm sorry that your situation turned out so poorly and that you didn't have the opportunity for a happier relationship. I think we're touching on a big difference between men and women here though that's worthy of discussion. When men don't bother to address issues until one foot is out the door, most women will view it as phony; in our mind you really don't care about us, you care about you since you wait until it costs you (ie wife has an affair or you get dumped). Your wife could be miserable but as long as she's still there so many men will claim they had no idea. What should your wife have done to get you to understand, before she gave up and detached? This is the position a lot of women find themselves in and we honestly don't know what else to do. We aren't ready to leave until we detach and once we do we generally don't come back. But men need us to walk before they get it. So how do we resolve this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm sorry that your situation turned out so poorly and that you didn't have the opportunity for a happier relationship. I think we're touching on a big difference between men and women here though that's worthy of discussion. When men don't bother to address issues until one foot is out the door, most women will view it as phony; in our mind you really don't care about us, you care about you since you wait until it costs you (ie wife has an affair or you get dumped). Your wife could be miserable but as long as she's still there so many men will claim they had no idea. What should your wife have done to get you to understand, before she gave up and detached? This is the position a lot of women find themselves in and we honestly don't know what else to do. We aren't ready to leave until we detach and once we do we generally don't come back. But men need us to walk before they get it. So how do we resolve this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree that there is a communication gap between the sexes and it is sometimes almost impossible to bridge. I think the main problem is that women sometimes attempt to communicate with men the same way they communicate with other women. The problem is that the message is only effective if it is received. For example and without getting too heavily into biomechanics women are infinitely better at reading facial expressions and detecting non verbal emotional responses than men. It is hypothesized that because women are primarily nurturers these traits have evolved over time in order to assist with childrearing. Women also use these abilities to augment their communication with each other. But men are much less likely to notice these non verbal cues and body language. So when a women feels that she has communicated a particular message in her mind it couldn't be more clear. But a man is not going to be able to detect the urgency of the message simply because we don't have the same level of that ability. Hence the message that is so important was lost in translation.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

For instance lifeistooshort, if you are trying to tell me something you will invariably augment your words with a slightly raised eyebrow, an almost undetectable curl of the lip, an inflection in your voice. These added cues give context and depth to the message. They might communicate a certain understanding or urgency that is absolutely necessary in order to put the message in perspective. But I may not pick up on those additions. All I will hear is the words. Worse yet, I may misinterpret your verbal cues and body language and completely misconstrue the context you are trying to communicate.

Its something like this:

A woman without her man is nothing.

The sentence can be interpreted in different ways depending on the punctuation.

A woman, without her man, is nothing.

or

A woman: without her, man is nothing.

The same words but completely different meanings. That is what verbal communication is without the correct interpretation of verbal cues and body language.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Fundamental difference in our viewpoints here. I don't want my hb to all of a sudden give a sh!t about me because I might leave or I might have someone else. At that point it means nothing to me; why do you think it's so hard to get a checked out wife back? I want him to give a sh!t because I'm his wife and my happiness is important to him, just as his is to me. He knows she's unhappy and still does nothing. But I agree she should tell him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The goal is either to make something better, or remove yourself from a situation you dont like. Its frustrating to read comments like this one because they highlight a very real and very major problem in logic. What is the real difference to you about the point in time your spouse actually understands the gravity of an issue, and makes the changes necessary to resolve it?

You want the issue resolved, yet at the same time say that you would still walk if the attempt to work on that issue only occurred because you actually took the steps necessary to make the importance of the issue understood by your partner?

If you set people up for failure, guess what happens? They fail. This line of thinking sometimes reminds me of a thread in another section of TAM about a woman who was married to a man that had a terrible time remembering important dates. She spent several years in a row crying on her anniversary date because the husband did not remember it was that day. When she was asked why she didnt just remind him that the date was approaching, or program the date into his calendars on her own, her response was similar to yours. "If I have to do X to get my husband to do Y it is not the same as my husband doing Y without me doing X." So instead of enjoying a nice dinner and some good physical intimacy at the end of the night, she continued crying. Lose/Lose situation, no?

If your goal is to have something change, why deny the possibility of accepting that change once it actually has a chance to happen? Unless its one of those self fulfilling prophecies and the actual desire was to have an excuse to leave the relationship with the "moral high ground."


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> Leeland
> 
> 
> If I did tgis right the link to the RECONCILIATION thread is below. Read the posts by B1 and EI they realte to you
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html


Yes it did work and I have been checking it out.
Thank you.


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## Leelan (Oct 10, 2013)

Paladin said:


> No, I was a BS and was searching for how to cope with infidelity. I posted my situation, got advice, discussed said advice with a counselor and acted on the advice that was relevant to me.


What you said above says it nicely and is the exact place I now find myself.....in instead of BS, for me it should say WS, that is the only difference. My plans are as I stated earlier, and I will discuss all of them with my counselor and decide from there. 

I am going to take a break from writing for a few days.
while it was good to talk about this it has been exhausting to talk about this constantly and I am starting to feel like I'm beating a dead horse.

I have a lot to think about, but I'll check in


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

bfree said:


> .....They might communicate a certain understanding or urgency that is absolutely necessary in order to put the message in perspective. But I may not pick up on those additions. All I will hear is the words. Worse yet, I may misinterpret your verbal cues and body language and completely misconstrue the context you are trying to communicate.
> 
> Its something like this:
> 
> ...


Communicating among healthy people who are open and willing is tricky, but trying to communicate with someone who is not open and not willing to hear is almost too much to ask.

I spend the bulk of my time here at TAM on SIM. What I always see are the sexless marriage threads, most commonly from men. Sometimes a tweak or two in communicating is all that is needed. Sometimes the man has a lot of work to do and sometimes, he has no choice but to put his marriage on this line and be prepared to walk out. It rarely happens that he can get to that point. He doesn't want to lose contact with his kids daily, he doesn't want to fail at marriage, he really does love his wife, he can't afford a divorce. If a divorce is off the table in order to instigate change, we typically never hear from him again and I assume he has either found another outlet, or he has accepted the unacceptable; a sexless marriage.

Leelan came here to try to change her marriage, with a husband who would not hear her, would not open himself to discussion, would not seek help for his serious sexual issues. She tried many different ways to get through to him and none of them worked.

I don't understand the term "cake eater." Seems silly to me. If I had a cake of COURSE I'm gonna eat it too! You don't get a cake to just look at it!

Leelan chose a path that might lead to the destruction of her marriage, or it might be a temporary fix giving her the ability to continue to work with her husband.

We all know it's not a wise course of action but what's done is done.

So, where to from here? Given the constraint of her marriage and her husband, how can this forum best support her to make wise decisions that are healthy for her?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

I don't know Leelan's full story but you're correct, it is probably very much like many of the stories we read on TAM. I'm sure Leelan has tried to communicate with her husband many times. I'm sure she feels she has communicated effectively. But obviously the message got lost somehow.

I know you know who EI and B1 are. B1 loves his wife. B1 would do anything for his wife. B1 is a devoted husband and father. And B1 is a heck of a good guy. B1 had low T. EI tried to communicate to him her growing unhappiness. She desperately tried to have his issue taken care of. She communicated the best way she knew how and tried for years. All to no avail. B1 heard her. He knew there was a problem. But for personal reasons he chose to ignore it. They had so much going on that he kept procrastinating. He always put kids, job, finances, etc first. Finally EI felt so disconnected she had an affair. That was his wake-up call. He never stopped loving his wife. He just didn't realize the seriousness of the issue or underestimated the effect it was having on her. When you have low T you walk around in a fog, always tired. Maybe it took something as serious as infidelity to break through that fog. The point is that Leelan's husband probably does love her very much. But in spite of all her desperate pleas he may not realize how much she is truly effected. This is why I find it so tragic that she committed infidelity. I think presenting him with divorce papers would have had the same effect. It could have been the wake-up call that was needed to spur him on to action. Now it might be the death knell for their relationship. I think the best thing she can do now is to tell her husband what she did and pray that he uses the information to work on his issue and not dissolve their union.


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