# Not your typical



## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

First post, Just looking for a outside perspective. Been married for 23 years, since we were 14 for her and 16 for me. We are each others first and only. We had our problems threw the years but never split or left each other. Last weekend we went camping with some good friends in our rv. My wife has had some health issues and is on a handfull of medications. Long story but drinkining involved and we went to bed. I woke up and went outside to find her with him. Not naked but not clothed either. I asked her what she was doing and she said going pee. I could see in her eyes she wasnt right in the head. We go into the rv and she said he went down on her. I threw her out the bedroom folloowed by a big fight. No sleep over the night. Next day we talked about it and she has no memory of what happened. We had sex the night before, she had no memory of it. She told me this earlier in the day of the fight,before it all happened. In my heart I know she would never do this any other time but I am having a very hard time coping with it. She has been on celexa,razopam, some other mood altering drugs as well as alchahol and ambien that night. We are not drug users , we have a nice house in a nice neighborhood. I would never leave her but I dont know how to move past this even though she has no memory of any of it. We have been physically sick since this happened, No sleep for 2 days as well as I dont really eat anymore. I dont know how to move past this.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

He said there was no actuall sex just oral on both parts. When I first found them she said he went down on her. She has no memory of any of it.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

No excuses. And this is up to you how you want to handle it. You have to choose to live with it and deal with it, or move on and deal with it.

Totally depends on how you feel about her. But if you stay you need to follow the typical advice given on every post on this forum simply to protect yourself.

Sorry that you are going through this. It is not an easy thing.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

She is not using it as a excuse, More so,I am. She is physically ill about what happened and how it happened. The only thing she knows is what was told to her. She told me she understood if I left but is with me 100% if I stay. She takes responsability for her end of it even if she doesnt know what happened becouse part of her let it happen. I would never leave her but also havent found a way to deal with it. She is very soft hearted and I wouldnt trade her for anything. As much a part of me as my arms or legs. We gre up together and will die together. I just need to figure out myself to help us get threw this.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Well, if you would never leave her, then you can sweep it under the carpet and forget about it. Oral isn't sex anyway. Since you say she was on mood altering drugs, she wasnt responsible for her actions. Forget about it.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

For starters, your "good friend" is not a good friend. Get him completely out of your life and if he is married tell his wife
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Do you believe this is a one off event? 

Are you prepared to treat this as a side effect of the drugs? 

I know you are hurting but right now make no big decisions. You need some sleep. Go see your Doctor and get something to help.

Go for a LONG walk. Run. You need to get rid of the toxins in your body from the massive adrenalin jolts you are getting 

Talk to her. Do not get angry.

Your good friend just stopped being a good friend.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

BTW- having sex with someone who is obviously mentally impaired is considered rape. (proving it will not be easy tho)

so you either have to believe your wife was raped or willingly went with it, in either case your friend is complete scum


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

So why was she drinking alcohol and taking ambien that night? Thats irresponsible and dangerous. Do you two often drink and take ambien?



When two central nervous system depressants like Ambien and alcohol are taken during the same day, the combination increases the risk of Ambien overdose. The individual may lapse into a coma, develop severe respiratory problems and low blood pressure or even die. The message from sanofi-aventis is clear: Don't drink while taking Ambien.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/244899-ambien-side-effects-with-alcohol/


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Ambien has some nasty side effects. Wandering and erratic behaivor are verry common, so I would have to believe mixed with alcohol she was not in the driver's seat so to speak. 
Just courious as to why someone who has been perscribed anti-depressants would be given a drug known to cause depression? You may wish to speak with her doctor about this. Also, why would she take a drug to help her fall asleep while drinking? They put these warnings on the labels for a reason.
So kick your friend's ass for doing this with her. Handle her with the knowlage that while the lights may have been on while she was with the OM, most likely nobody was home.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Almostrecovered said:


> BTW- having sex with someone who is obviously mentally impaired is considered rape. (proving it will not be easy tho)
> 
> so you either have to believe your wife was raped or willingly went with it, in either case your friend is complete scum


:iagree: as well as your buddy is not your buddy at all. You and your wife have a long history together and if there has never been infidelity issues before, then I would believe her 100% and find a way to work through this, but IMO you definitely need to get your so called friend out of your marriage circle... He took advantage of your wife in a bad way (aka rape in my opinion) as well as he took advantage of your friendship... What a scumbag! Good luck to y'all.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

23, drug interactions have been an issue within my family. I reccomend seeking out help from the medical community in regards to side effects of drug interaction, in addition to alcohol consumption. Without going into detail, ask if memory loss is possible. And definitely seek out help from more than the doctor who originally prescribed these meds.

Honestly, you have to seriously consider this was an on-going affair, NOT just one time that she "doesn't remember". Without warning her, I would place a Voice-Activiated Recorder in her car and somewhere in the home (wherever she is likely to make calls) and that she cannot find them. Also, place a keylogger on the computer. You should be able to get her email password, and although she has been busted now, you might be able to retrieve old emails that could give evidence of an affair. Or, you may not find anything. 

Meanwhile, these physical ills of hers, it could be stress, or drug interactions. Its up to you to determine if she is genuinely remorseful over what she has done to you. I find it odd that she seems to be okay with you simply divorcing her if you choose to. I'd imagine a genuinely remorseful cheater would be begging the betrayed spouse for a second chance.

If you feel that you want to give it a go, ask for all passwords to emails, Facebook, cellphone, etc. (This decision may want to be done after you run a keylogger and a VAR)

She is completely transparent with you. Of course, if the Other Man is married, your wife exposes to her. If she agrees to inform your families, I'd take that as a sign of committment. 

And if you can determine she isn't lying to you about an ongoing affair and you both want to rebuild, marriage counseling.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Why is it that you don't seem mad at your "friend"? The story sounds a bit strange. Your so called friend get so readily engaged in sex with your wife right under your nose? I know Ambien is not something you want to take lightly, especially mixed with alcohol, but are you sure that is all she took? How did the two get hooked up in the middle of the night after you two went to bed? Do you suspect there was premeditation? Was it that she just stepped outside to pee and he took advantage of her as she seemed not all together? Or, was she the one that approached him inappropriately? 

BTW, oral is sex. Some may even claim it is more intimate than intercourse.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

I agree that you should check on her phone records and facebook messages. It is possible that it was not a one-time thing. Remember, you will be lied to when you catch someone cheating....even your true love and best friend will lie to you.

So whats up with the friend? I am curious about that as well. What is his excuse for all of this?


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Sad, those are some of the reasons that I suspect there is more to the story, that OM may have been trying to cover up other incidents - the tip of the iceberg.

I hope that 23 uses a VAR and keylogger to dig further. Its definitely possible that this was an ongoing affair, and that his wife and OM thought they had an opportunity, although I don't doubt the dangerous side effects of drug interaction.

23, you've made it very clear how important your wife is to you - please don't let those emotions cloud your judgment in how to proceed. Keep digging. There are tons of stories here of "He/She would never cheat" or "He/She would just divorce me if they wanted another"....It goes on and on.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't quite understand this. You catch her and she immediately confesses that he went down on her then later claims she does not remember anything. Well then how did she remember he went down on her?
What has been the consequences to your friend? He is married or has girlfriend and have you exposed it to them? Have you ended your friendship? What was his excuse?

Something just does not smell right with this story. I think that there is more to this story.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I'm really interested in how the OM explains this to.... I know from first hand experience that the mixture of alcohol and ambien can lead to complete memory loss, wasn't me but someone very close to me. This person was so out of it I actually thought they were having a stroke, paramedics, cops, the family doctor and a fire engine and this person has no memory of it - none - had no idea what had happened until they woke up the next morning and we all gave a funny look and filled them in. 

So, your wife having no memory is plausible, but this former friend of yours - what's his explanation????


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

"Oral isn't sex" is bs, pure and simple. Was your wife touched intimately by someone who shouldn't have (i.e. not you)? Then there's a problem.

23, I hope that, at the very least, you'll not be in contact with the friend again. Your wife was (supposedly) drugged up- what the hell was his excuse?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

couple of things need to go---your so called friend, who would have oral with his friends married wife---and the alcohol has to go completely---if you don't like deleting those 2 things, then obviously you ain't interested in fixing this

Your wife may not exactly know what went on---but somewhere inside of her she knew what she was doing---had you not come outside---what do you think would have happened

IMHO, your wife isn't quite the innocent you make her out to be


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## ZeroCool (Sep 23, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> BTW- having sex with someone who is obviously mentally impaired is considered rape. (proving it will not be easy tho)
> 
> so you either have to believe your wife was raped or willingly went with it, in either case your friend is complete scum


This is what hit my right out of the gate when I read the OP. 

I wouldn't touch Ambien with a ten foot poll. I had a friend who was prescribed it for insomnia who had to unplug her modem before bed every night because she was getting up and answering work e-mails without remembering. People do all kinds of things when taking Ambien.

She should get to her doctor and get a new sleep med.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Couple more things do not quite register

If I saw another man with his hands on/doing something with my wife, who was partially undressed---there would have been a confrontation/fight, THEN AND THERE, with the so called friend

Also Celexa, is a sexual repressant, so why would your wife be so hot to do oral if she was on anti-depressants


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

jnj express said:


> If I saw another man with his hands on/doing something with my wife, who was partially undressed---there would have been a confrontation/fight, THEN AND THERE, with the so called friend


Yeah - really. I can't imagine seeing that and saying, "gee honey - what is it you're doing there?" Even if I knew she was out of it I would have torn off after the now former friend right then.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

I'm almost in the same boat friend. Being each others one and only really ment something special to me in the 19 year relationship with my wife. It was always the load stone that I used to build past any problems we had in our marriage. It didn't mean as much to her. She had unprotected sex with someone 10 years our younger who worked out everyday. She was not on any drugs, it was a choice because of a fight we had and, She told me that as she's got older she's been curious as to what sex with someone else would be like. That she enjoyed our love making / sex life, but she wanted to know if it would be better or diffrent in some way. There is not a night I dont wake up in sweats from nightmares about what she did. It has been a little over two months and I can say that it is starting to get better. I almost make it through days without crying... (night time is the hardest) We are getting help, and we are both on meds for depression. I feel your pain and if you need to talk PM me.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

I can honestly say I would trust her today. With that said it has been since last friday this happened. She doesnt remember even telling me what happened. The only thing she knows is what was told to her. She was on ambien along with anti depressents. Ambien was not prescribed to her it was to me. I gave it to her so she would sleep good. You can see this is a night of all around poor choices. I aint perfect, I have flirted around but I have never had sex with any other women or girl when we met. As far as kicking his ass I didnt know even what I was looking at. I honestly didnt know what they were doing as this was in the middle of the desert at midnight. She told me what happened, Got into a physical confrontation. The next day she only knows bits and pieces and just what we told her she said. She doesnt remember even telling us that. She swore off all alcahol and quit taking all of her prescriptions. Very dangerous to do with everything she was on. She is phsically ill that she let someone else even touch her. She wont even get a message from a male. When she gave birth no men were allowed into the room. She has a female gyno. I do believe this is a 1 time fluke but that doesnt make it any easier. Also, His wife was sleeping in our rv as well. They have been married 17 years. I do agree if this was a 20 year old girl that drank to much at a club and a guy had sex with her it is called rape. If a girl is to messed up to consent its the mans duty to walk away. I guess I just need to vent to someone, no one in my family or anybody else will know about it so the forum is the only way to talk about it.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

23: Did you inform the OM's wife? I assume that you'll never be around this guy again.

Please do not discount entirely the possibility that this was an ongoing thing. I understand what you've written about your wife, but its a possibility. I still reccomend the VAR and keylogger.

Whats the plan regarding transparency and counseling?


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

She was there and full well knows what went down. We are pretty much distancing ourselfs from everybody. We will never talk to or hang around these people again. I have to add she told me at a friends party he tried to kiss her but again alcahol was involved and I let it go. A lot of bad decisions on my part.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

23, I think its good you're recoginizing misakes on your part. But for now, your wife is the one that f*cked up here big time.

So now you know that he tried to kiss her once before, and you all STILL went camping together, in such a confined space. 23 thats definitely a red flag. Please tell me that you're going to get that VAR and keylogger. You have to be prepared!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Wow! With friends like that who needs an enema?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

In my social group, if a guy tries to kiss with another man's wife, he would be ostricized immediately. I don't understand why you decided to hang around with this friend of yours after you know he tried to kiss your wife. This whole situation sounds weird !

What kind of people are you, really?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

:redcard:

Challenge flag.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> In my social group, if a guy tries to kiss with another man's wife, he would be ostricized immediately. I don't understand why you decided to hang around with this friend of yours after you know he tried to kiss your wife. This whole situation sounds weird !
> 
> What kind of people are you, really?


:iagree:

Yeah, not invite on an RV trip and drug the wife too.
Sounds more like a soft swing fantasy.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

I can see your point. To trusting on my part. Far from swingers but we had a group of 3 couples who hang out on the weekends. One is my neighbor and our kids go back and fourth from house to house. My house was always open to his and his to mine. His dog would come over and greet me at the door when I got home. Kind of became a extended family. My wife would give them both a hug and kiss when we hung out but nothing with passion.Bad couple comes into play here and yes this is weird I know. The wife of the bad couple was married to my neighbor. They all hung out together. we met them and thought this was very strange but to each there own. So we all became close friends over years of seeing each other since the one lives behind us. Fast forward a few years and my wife is having anger issues becouse of her job and stress. Her docter prescribes her anti depressents and then prescribes her a very heavy anti depresent to go along with it. She was never pescribed ambien. Thats my prescription. A year goes by and she is having issues with focus. I talk to her about it and she will get mad so I let it go. I should have stood up sooner but didnt want the fight. We were drinking a little every night then a lot on the weekend. She throws me a b day party where she drinks heavily and actually went around and was hugging and kissing on people. we git into a fight about it the next day and she says she doesnt remember any of it. Fast forward a month and we are at it again with the alcahol and dinner. We come back here with friends and watch a movie. She disappears and I find her on the bathroom floor talking about work to herself. I get her to come down and she falls asleep sitting up. next brings us to a friends party that was mentioned earlier. He kissed her but with more then a friend kiss. She tells me about it before we even leave the driveway. A few weeks later We have sex after yet another weekend of drinking and the next day she asks why is she so sore. I told her we had sex and she says she does remember any of it what so ever. 2 days later it all erupted. Lots of poor choices made but we are better for it. I told her about his forum and showed her all the posts. We talk about it every day. We are closer then ever but I dont know how to be myself again. I guess given the history that may not be a bad thing. We are not swingers nor would ever be swingers. Also, His wife cam onto me a few times and I walked away, Chalked it up to alcahol. Maybe just to trusting on my part in people.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

I've seen the scary side effects of drugs and some interactions - can be crazy!however things that 23 has posted don't add up.

This guy already made a move on his wife, yet his wife who avoids other men, went on a camping trip with this guy.
Camping trips = close proximity to others. 

2 + 2 does not equal 5. Something isnt right here, 23.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I still want to know what your former friends explanation is???

Your wife needs to get medical help. Between drugs, alcohol and behavior she is out of control and it needs to be addressed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

They werent invited, We went with my wifes sisters family and our family. Bad couple texts and asks if they can go but they dont have anything to stay in. We ride atvs as a group and family. We went to the desert for a weekend of family time. I will send a open invite to friends on facebook to anyone that wants to ride with us to come out. Bad couple finds out and wants to go becouse they ride also. They usually stay in the neighbor behind us rv. Yes weird again becouse they were married. They werent coming out till the next day so they needed a place to sleep for one night. I said ok.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

Like I said in the intro. Not your typical. As far as my wifes phones,e mails,facebook account. All are open to me since before this happened as are mine. She is more then welcome to go threw all my stuff as well. 
I still take ambien or I would get no sleep, as it is I wake up even with taking it hence the posts at 5am my time this morning. She has swore off everything and has stuck to it as of so far.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

The guys wife has text me and said he is so sorry and cried for 2 days about it.She said he drank way to much and isnt entirely sure how they got to where they were. But does remember some of what happened. I feel she got up to go outside in a sleep walk and he persued and instigated. Thats my gut feeling and really the only thing that makes sense. 
With her not there it got out of hand. He should have been a man and stepped away. She feels becouse she didnt say no its her fault, She doesnt know what she said.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

Side note, I told the guys wife there is only one thing he can do for me, and you dont want to know what that is. She text back she was mad that I would go there and she wouldnt wish that for my wife. Well she aint me and I will help him caulk it and load it.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Alright 23, I can understand how something like that could have happened (meaning the invite). If you feel that she is genuine through actions that she is remorseful (besides being sick), marriage counseling will help both of you, certainly in establishing boundaries.

She needs to see her doctor to explain the effects of the medicines she consumed. If she still needs help, the dr will help her with prescriptions. But she needs to be honest of the side effects of interactions. And no alcohol already, that's definitely a good start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I now have a better understanding of how things are there. So, this OM must have known for a while that your wife gets kind of sexually reckless without remembering much afterwards time to time due to her drug use. It would not be difficult to pick up on such things and he just took advantage of it. Also, because of her such history, you are not 100% sure how much to blame the OM even for the makeout session they had that night. 

You know, this kind of blackout of memory loss during drinking with or without drug, once it starts, tend to get worse and worse. I used to drink, I used to have my memory intact even while heavily toxicated, but once I experienced blackout, it started to occur more and more readily everytime I drank. And, it is a scary experience not remembering what I said or did the next morning. So, I stopped drinking altogether, except some wine and beer once in a while. 

First of all, your wife must stop drinking. She cannot trust herself let alone you as her husband. Secondly, the OM couple must be cut off from your social network. He knew how your wife was and he took advantage of her. Although she may have been influenced by the drug and alcohol and lost her inhibition, but he certainly was fully aware of what he was doing. Actually, I have suspicion, he was kind of looking for something with your wife all along. They might have talked about sneaking together to do something like this before you guys went to bed. 

The weird thing is that although you cannot remember things said and done during blackout the next day, while in blackout you do sort of talk, scheme, and act out with awareness of surroundings, although drunk. Although she may not remember the next day, she and OM could have schemed together this secret midnight rendezvous before she even went to bed with you. People often become this total different persona while in this blackout period. As if drug-induced split personality of some kind.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

My wife is a nurse practicioner. Means that she sees patients and prescribes medications, mostly for emergency care. She's not an expert, but she recently told me that there seems to be one thing with ambien use that is more common than actual sleepwalking sexual behaviors: that's people using a small dose of ambien as an excuse for putting theirselves in a sexual situation.

Taking high doses of ambien can cause the more wild episodes of behaviors we hear about on the internet. Consuming large quantities of alcohol can only make this worse.

Lets face it - everybody has heard the stories. Who in their right mind would allow themselves to mix such a ****tail when sleeping in the same RV as a guy who once kissed her? You should ask a doctor if her dosage of ambien, mixed with alcohol, is enough to even realistically cause such behaviors. Very few, if any, will call the police about sharing medications. This whole thing just sounds contrived. Sorry for the honesty, but that's just an opinion.

If she did this intentionally, she still might have talked herself into it by using the easy out of bailing out if she changed her mind. The tears and remorse, and even the excuse of forgetting could easily be remorse for just getting caught. 

Sorry, but I really am a guy who is also very naive. Still, even if my wife started down a path of drinking, then I offered her an ambien in the company of a man who had kissed her in the past, she would have told me that I was crazy for drugging her to the point of craziness. Your wife didn't. Of course, if the guy kissed her drunkenly in the past, many women would not allow themselves to stay in the same RV even if no such ****tail was consumed, fearing that it might have been some intent behind it. You are blaming yourself for being naive, but just how naive is she?


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Halien, all valid points that 23 should consider in installing a keylogger and vARs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

This is the wife- I have read through all the posts here. Some of you have some very valid points. I am not a victim in this incident at all and don't claim to be. I love my husband with all my heart and have since we were "kids". We married at 16 and 18 not because we were pregnant, but because we loved each other. There is nothing in this world that is going to make this go away or erase this from our minds. I have very little memory of that night. most of it is what has been filled in to me from other people. This, I do not feel was planned as someone posted earlier. I remember being in bed. I don't know how I got outside at all. I agree with earlier post of no more alcohol. At this point is ever, may be eventually will be an occasional drink with dinner on a special evening or something of that nature. I am almost a week into being completely off all meds and alcohol. my thoughts are clearier then they have been in a long time. I actually feel smart again, however, my anger issues at work are back. I deal with the public in customer service and if anyone has ever done that for a living knows how challenging that is and how someone can make you feel. People in general can be very mean and uncaring about how they make other people feel. I am a kind, soft hearted person and am good at what I do because I care about my customers and that there things are broken and I am there to try to help them get them fixed.
**as posted earlier someone said that the black outs start coming more often once they start. I agree, this scares me. I have set my mind to no more mind altering substances in my body and I am sticking to it. I have hurt my husband more than I care to ever do and will ever do in the future. It breaks my heart to see him hurting and stumbling through his day not knowing which way to turn. I can't change what has happened, but I can prevent it from happening. I am fighting for my marriage and my family with all my aching heart.....


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

the wife: our rv is not as small as most of you might think in your minds. It is a 32 ft toyhauler with seperate front bedroom. My husband and I sleep in the front and our guests as well as the children,\ (that were in there asleep) stay. I honestly thought the "kiss" was a one time **ck up of the OM and he would never try anything again. I was not chacing anyone. My hugging and kissing on people was purely innocent and meant nothing sexual. Everyone that we hang around with is married and love there spouses very much. I must add that I hugged and kissed on the wives also -- you all have in your mind that this kissing was sexual. Let me clear your minds. This is the kind of kissing that family members do ( on the cheek or a peck on the lips. not tongue down your throat pure make out session)


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

23's wife - to add a little levity to a rough situation - I work in retail to - everyone should have to for some period of their lives - I completely understand what you mean by that. You just have to let the crazy customers roll off your back. 

Hang on - you're likely to get a few rough responses from some of the betrayed spouses here. They understandably have very little patience with those of us on the wayward side. Just be sure you do whatever you have to make sure you are never ever anywhere near another situation like this again. And if that OM steps off the curb in front of you - run him over with that Karma bus of Appleducklings!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Eh. Sorry. I am not buying the thing about the kiss and the story about her not knowing how/why she ended up outside but she did know the guy went down on her and the guy says she went down on him. 

Seems there is more to this story. 

23, I feel bad for you. I hope you guys can recover from this but do know, you have GOT to stop hanging out with these toxic friends and especially the a$$hole other man, who had no problems doing oral with your wife while you slept nearby and so did his WIFE (WTF is his excuse??? I am guessing he wasn't on Ambien or drinking heavily). Dude is bad news and especially sinec he kissed on your wife previously. Did she ever tell you about that incident? 

Get testd for STDs, both of you. Stop hanging with these couples. Go to marriage counselling. be open/transparent/honest. Your wife needs to stop mixing Ambien & alcohol and more importantly, learn when to walk away from someone completely after they have tried to kiss her so that these types of things don't happen...


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

JB, I totally understand the craziness possible from drug interaction. However, it was a bad situation to be in, and she absolutely should have stopped, but didn't. Keylogger and VARs were advised to dig deeper. Pointless now that he has shown her everything. 

Drug interactions are tough stuff to deal with, if 23 feels that that's all there is to it, his mind won't be chandd. But he has gotten good advice about seeking medical care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

You say you're not drug users??..What do you think alcohol is? I'm no doctor, but I really can't see the reason to take all that crap in the first place....some of the s#$t the FDA approves is not only worthless but dangerous...
She really needs to detox herself and then the both of you need to get some counseling..and get rid of that so-called "friend".


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> Pointless now that he has shown her everything.


Sigh.

Yep.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> 23's wife - to add a little levity to a rough situation - I work in retail to - everyone should have to for some period of their lives - I completely understand what you mean by that. You just have to let the crazy customers roll off your back.
> 
> Hang on - you're likely to get a few rough responses from some of the betrayed spouses here. They understandably have very little patience with those of us on the wayward side. Just be sure you do whatever you have to make sure you are never ever anywhere near another situation like this again. And if that OM steps off the curb in front of you - run him over with that Karma bus of Appleducklings!!


Sigma,
I hope I wasn't coming across as one of the rough ones. I'm not a betrayed spouse. I was only trying to show that some critical stops that most people put in place were bypassed. I'm not a prude, but just saying that if you take a step away from the situation, most people realize that heavy alcohol consumption, ambien, and a person of the opposite sex is a pretty good recipe for infidelity. Try it enough times, and somebody's private parts are going to end up in the wrong place.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Halien said:


> Sigma,
> I hope I wasn't coming across as one of the rough ones. I'm not a betrayed spouse. I was only trying to show that some critical stops that most people put in place were bypassed. I'm not a prude, but just saying that if you take a step away from the situation, most people realize that heavy alcohol consumption, ambien, and a person of the opposite sex is a pretty good recipe for infidelity. Try it enough times, and somebody's private parts are going to end up in the wrong place.


I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular or any post prior to 23's wife posting. Personally I thought your response was a good one. I was more thinking of my experience as a wayward and some of the responses I've seen other waywards get. I understand those responses and generally I agree with them, but they can be daunting. Personally I appreciated the really tough ones I got as much as any of them.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Sigh.
> 
> Yep.


She might not remember this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ha ha ha


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

We dont even know what all the secretive spy stuff is. I honestly feel if you have to go to these depths your relationship is done. Like she said We have a 32ft 5th wheel we sleep in. Its by no meens cramped. or close courters. I guess when you go threw the older posts on here its always the same old met a guy and they snuck off. History between my wife and I goes somthing like this. She is the one and only girl I have ever slept with as well as her with me. Met at 14 and 16, married at 16 and 18. worked in the same place all our lives. We work together all day and spend our evenings together. I had a hiccup myself with a girl 15 years ago. Never slept with her or kissed her but let myself get to close. The wife knows about it and we moved on. We are literally together all day and night. We have only spent 2 nights apart since we were married as I had training for work and that was 5 years ago. We are pretty much attached at the hip. I showed her this thread becouse I take everything that was said on here and use it to get threw this weather it be good or bad. I want outsiders opinions as they may see things diffrently.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I think you have a strong marraige, and this is just an unfortunate "hiccup" you guys had to deal with. Just throw away the bottle and your marraige will be fine, I think. There are posters who might still suspect there is more to the story, and I guess you do have to watch for the signs. However, from reading your wife's posts, I really did not sense any reason to suspect. 

You may not want to go to secret gadget of sort to monitor your wife, but a little vigilance to guard your marraige is considered a "healthy" practice anyway. In your case, you may not need to go overboard with it.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

23yearmarriage said:


> I want outsiders opinions as they may see things diffrently.


You've been getting outside opinions. You haven't liked what you've heard (understandable, of course). Doesn't mean they're not bad opinions to be discarded, though. I understand how close you two are, but she wasn't exactly considering all that when she continued to abuse drugs mixed with alcohol in certain situations. 

It is drug abuse. She has taken a huge first step in stopping. But I strongly urge you to get her back to her doctor. This history she has needs to be known to her doctor so the pre-existing medicial condition (if i recall correctly that she had something going on) can be treated.

I get now that you're not going to pursue the possibility of an affair further. While I think its a mistake (especially now that common investigating tools have been discussed here, which she has read), I wish you well.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

My eyes will be a bit wider open for sure. I dont take it oit of the relm of possibility. I suppose I will be looking for clues for a while even if I find nothing more. Its the nature of what happened. The friends list was cut off the day it happened. They text me today and I told them I want nothing more to do with them. On a side note, when I talked to the other wife in this the next day she said we should go get even with them, I was like are you freaken nuts. Friends are gone, prescription drugs are gone. we are moving forward 1 day at a time. We are closer then we have been in a while and more open with our feelings. The daily talks help me clear my head and move forward. If this was any diffrent then what it was it would be another story. By the way, After I found them the fight turned phsical, Pushed her hit her she hit me, all out brawl. She is bruised up pretty good and I have a few as well. Kind of par for the course in this situation though.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

23yearmarriage said:


> My eyes will be a bit wider open for sure. I dont take it oit of the relm of possibility. I suppose I will be looking for clues for a while even if I find nothing more. Its the nature of what happened. The friends list was cut off the day it happened. They text me today and I told them I want nothing more to do with them. On a side note, when I talked to the other wife in this the next day she said we should go get even with them, I was like are you freaken nuts. Friends are gone, prescription drugs are gone. we are moving forward 1 day at a time. We are closer then we have been in a while and more open with our feelings. The daily talks help me clear my head and move forward. If this was any diffrent then what it was it would be another story. By the way, After I found them the fight turned phsical, Pushed her hit her she hit me, all out brawl. She is bruised up pretty good and I have a few as well. Kind of par for the course in this situation though.


So, you had a violent confrontation with your wife afterwards, eh? Wow! Who needs soap opera when we hear all this? :rofl:


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

23yearmarriage said:


> On a side note, when I talked to the other wife in this the next day she said we should go get even with them


2 possibilities about these people here-

1) they are swingers and are trying to turn you two into their play pals. Some swingers have the fantasy of being able to convince couples or individuals into their bidding instead of dealing with people who already agree to the lifestyle. This is some sick sh!t, if that's the case.

2) Husband has done this before and wife is looking for revenge affairs.

either case their dynamic is toxic and poisonous and cutting them out of your life is certainly the best thing to do.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> You've been getting outside opinions. You haven't liked what you've heard (understandable, of course).


Word.



23yearmarriage said:


> On a side note, when I talked to the other wife in this the next day she said we should go get even with them


Oh boy. 

What did your wife say about this?


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

She just shook her head in disbelief. SHe has came onto me before but I walked away and attributed it to alchahol. As far as not liking what was saidI dont agree, I am taking evrything into consideration. The pre metated theory bothered me untill this morning. If I was going to sneek out to have sex I dont think I would take ambien before doing so. I watched her take it so I know this is the case. They may very well be swingers I dont know. I do know his wife offered to go upstairs with me on more then a few ocassions. She pulled out her boobs and showed them to me as well. I wont lie I looked and walked away. Told my wife about it later, All of it. This kind of stuff just started happening within the last 4 months, we have known them for 4 years. I guess when you look at it from a outsiders perspective there was a lot of red flags where we should have stopped and chose to ignore the self destructive behaior and continue to party. Our partys consisted of playing guitar hero and hanging out in the garage BS ing. Nothing to crazy till this event. My wife is very modest all the time untill she started the anti depression pills and mixed them with alchahol. Gradually got worse with every party. When she was at her worst she wouldnt remember the next day what happened. We are talking maybe 4-5 times here in the past year. I talked to her the night of and I can tell you for a fact there was nobody home. Doesnt make it right and it sure as hell doesnt make me feel better but the women I married was not this women. There is no contact between us and the other couple and it will stay that way. We are pulling back and re evaluating our lives and family and setting the goals for the future. Side note, Havent slept a full nights sleep or eaten much of anything now for going on 7 days. My minds pretty [email protected]@@ at this point. Not really sure how to be normal again.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

23yearmarriage said:


> My minds pretty [email protected]@@ at this point. Not really sure how to be normal again


To make a start, the wife has stopped alcohol and drug consumption. Good.

Marriage counseling is a must, in my opinion. You both have to figure out why such destructive behaviors were allowed in your marriage and develop communication to stop it.

Your boundaries were non existant, and your wife continued to take prescription drugs and alcohol KNOWING what it did to her, and that she did it in situations with other people. No bueno. 

The drug interactions and side effects are what drew me to this thread, because I have seen such nasty results. I hope you two can work together to keep them away. And tell her doctor!


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

There is nothing you said that I can argue. The consumption of alcahol came with the job we are in now. We lost our way in the past 5 years. I have thought about a marriage couselor but I dont know if it really helps or is it just what you are supposed to do. I think you said it best about the boundaries being non existant. It was pushed to the breaking point.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Being a desert rat my self, I can understand how those trip can get out of hand. Through out the years we have learned to pick certain groups we go with. 
In your case I see that it was a snowball that just got so big it all went down on the last trip. 
Point is it wasn't just the trip "what happens at Glamis stays at Glamis" it was unhealthy behaviors that happened at home and it seems you have some what of a handle on it. 

Sometimes you just have to force those mind movies out with the positive and healthy thing your wife is now doing to make things better.

When ever I get these ughly mental pictures of my WW, I just tell my self I diserve good things and I refuse to let her past behavior define who I want to be.

Good luck the both of you will get through this with time.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

I talked to the couple that lives behind me. They are still in contact with the bad couple. They said he doesnt know what happened and just went along with what my wife said becouse his wife told him if he didnt say what happened she would leave him. My wife has no memory of what she said so she can not confirm or deny if its accurate. So at this point I am not sure what actually happened. I know she had a hiccy on her neck but thats all I know for sure. I play it back in my mind non stop to see if I can pick out a new detail but I have fought it for seven days now I am not sure whats real or made up in my head. I know what was said. I dont know what I saw behind the camper. I dont suppose I ever will. It could make things better it could make them worse. Not knowing what I should be dealing with is a killer.


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## onthefence16 (Aug 21, 2011)

This is to lordmayhem....you posted an oxymoron statement
oral sex isn't sex.....HELLO what is the word after oral...ummm....sex!!!You must be the offender......


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

I forgot to mention couple I talked to said he doesnt function without the little blue pill. So I am unsure how far things could have gone. No full on sex but where did it stop. 
Last night was th first night sleep in 7 days. Average of 2-3 a night. Havent eaten as food doesnt sound good. I had a piece of fruit and a slice of cheese today becouse I was getting a little out of it. Trying to get the wife threw her medication with draws as well as fighting my own demons. I blame myself for not stepping up when I should have.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

23yearmarriage said:


> I blame myself for not stepping up when I should have.


What exactly are you blaming yourself for in this? You did not push her to stop the medication?


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

This is a strange case...I know it has been mentioned before but if a woman got taken advantage of while under the effect of a drug...wouldn't she feel violated?? Most women would call the cops and have the man arrested in a situation like this...your wife didn't do that, she simply said "she does not remember" and started "working on the marriage"...now if you guys want to remain together that's your choice alone to make and i see nothing wrong with it...but i think you guys should try to be honest with one another about what happened that night, if he did all that without her knowledge your wife would be freaked out and would want to see the man in jail...the fact that she feels guilty means that it was somewhat if not totally consensual otherwise this situation would be treated as a rape case, that much is self evident, in a situation like this medication cannot be viewed as the culprit, either she did it voluntarily or he did it against her will. So if you guys want to stay then you should at least confront this simple truth.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

She feels she put her self into that situation by not saying no. She participated even if she wasnt there mentally and she should have stopped it. She blames herself foe not seeing the warning sighns and getting a hold sooner. We have been very open with each other threw the whole thing. I have talked to her about some of the wilder sexual things between the two of us and come to find out she had no clue she even did them. She is a lot freaked out by the whole thing as we have devoted our whole lives to our marriage and this definately is the hardest thing we have gone threw, At least for me. I have not always treated her the best but have tried to do better the last 10 years. She has always been good to me with the exception of her moody days.Here it is 7am day 8 after and I dont really feel any better, Just kind of numb to everything.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> What exactly are you blaming yourself for in this? You did not push her to stop the medication?


 For putting us into this position. I knew he tried to kiss her. I said yes when they wanted to stay in our RV. I guess that can show how much I believed in her but didnt factor in the medications she was on. I could have stopped it by saying no, you tried kissing her and thats the end. I really believed she would never let anything like this happen no matter how messed up or medicated up she would be. Thats part of whats ripping me apart,,,, a big part.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

23yearmarriage said:


> For putting us into this position. I knew he tried to kiss her. I said yes when they wanted to stay in our RV. I guess that can show how much I believed in her but didnt factor in the medications she was on. I could have stopped it by saying no, you tried kissing her and thats the end. I really believed she would never let anything like this happen no matter how messed up or medicated up she would be. Thats part of whats ripping me apart,,,, a big part.


That kissing incident confused me a little. At first I thought that was a huge red flag and I couldn't believe why you even considered going camping with this guy. But, according to your W's account, it was something very insignificant. She compared it to light kisses and pecks she readily give out to her families and friends all the time. So, I understood why you decided to dismiss it.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

You're in a weird gray area- was it rape or cheating? Either case has to be treated in VERY different ways. (after all, one is your wife's fault and the other is not her fault at all) I just don't know how you can determine which is the case with 100% certainty. I am at a loss here to say what to do and I'm sure you are as well. I would recommend finding some counselor that has experience in both marriage/infidelity and substance abuse or rape and go from there.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

She blames herself for not saying no no matter what shape she was in. She blames herself becouse her body was paticipating even though in any other case she would have never been in that sceneriur current problems is her coming off the mind altering drugs and the high blood pressure and the birth control and the thyroid medication. We talked this morning about her taking the health issue drugs,,High blood pressure and thyroid and starting a excersize program to get off the last of them. She is so upset with herself she said she doesnt want anything in her as far as prescription drugs. I want her back and healthy for the next 23 years.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

How about this :

Stop blaming the drugs, alcohol and everything else. You stood by and invited a wolf into the RV with you. She in turn willing had sex with another man.

Set very clear boundaries , the first is for you to stop making excuses for her , both of you go dry , change her medication , change your friends and the way you socialise. The " he cannot function without a little blue pill " comment is a load of rubbish . Your trying to sift though logic , the lies you are being fed and your inherent belief that your wife could never do this willingly .

The real truth is going to be desperately buried and I suspect you will never find out what happened or it will only come out over the years to come. 

What do you want to do now? If you want to sort your marriage out, help yourself and your wife , I strongly suggest you get some personal one to one help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

23yearmarriage said:


> She blames herself for not saying no no matter what shape she was in. .


Your wife seems to have rationalised this better than you, accept it and together work out a way forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

Actually she hasnt. I wont get into details becouse she may read this but its to the point we are fighting for our lives. She knows she should have stopped the booz and prescription drugs before this but didnt. I agree she was as willing as a girl in the club or bar that was messed up on crap and eneded up in the sack. I know they did not have full on sex. I am pretty sure it would have if I didnt walk out when I did and she would have not known the next day. I know how it sounds from the outside espacially when you read threw all the posts. I am mostly just needing to express myself and I am trying to keep it under wraps as well. Nobody knows except who was there. She is as disgraced as I am and our marriage


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi 23.
You have been together a very long time, since you were quiet young. I tend to believe that this was one off. I want to I suppose.. My 25 year marriage is down the toilet and a good news story is long overdue here!

This is a very, very serious wake up call. You should both do some marriage counseling to try and sort out all the things that have remained unsaid. All the little resentments that have built up over the years. 
Put it all on the table. Do this now. LISTEN to each other. 
In the time you have been together there have been so many changes in the world and you have grown up together. 
Think of it as a time to re-evaluate what you both want out of life. 

MC will help you get beyond all the barriers that you build. 
Good luck to you both. Be OPEN. Be HONEST. 
Stay in Love.


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## TwyztedChyck (Sep 11, 2010)

Let go of the guilt already. You both agree it was a horrible experience, you both agree to never let it happen again, now agree to move on. It's like the Serenity Prayer. Change what you can (the behaviours that led up to it), accept what you cannot change (that it happened) and just walk away. It is what it is. If you only had a limited time left with each other in this world, woud you want it spent in the throes of bellyaching guilt? Mistakes are for teaching us. Learn the lesson and move forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

I had another semi disaster last night with the kid. This kind of woke me up. As far as getting things out in the open we are talking couple times a day but trying to let it go. I feel I am getting up but far from standing.prescription drug and alcahol free for over a week now. We went for a mountain bike ride last night with the family.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

The kid knows about mom's indescretion?


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

She knows about the fight and what she has overheard. She doesnt know what exactly is going on.


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## 23yearmarriage (Sep 28, 2011)

Its been about a month and a half since D Day. I wish I could say it was all great but its not. Nightmares everynight except the last 2. Still plays in my head daily and gets worse as evening comes. I have withdrawn from all friends and family and pretty much go to work and come home. She still doesnt know what happened, Just what has been told to her. 4 days no sleep or eating after and still no real wanting to eat now. I have lost about 25-30 pounds since this happened. She is handeling it ok but very moody off all meds. She says I should be better then I am and part of me agrees but I dont know the date I will be me again if ever. My mind is pretty much fu"d. I am in a self imposed exile as I have pretty much adopted a f-you to the world. Not really looking for awnsers anymore just venting. I have all her emails and text messages from the past as well as all her passwords. Nothing anywhere that suggests this was a planned or wanted event but this still gives little if any comfort. I would like to have a fairy tale ending but not sure how to make that happen yet.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Look, you seriously need some outside individual therapy to teach you how to cope with this agony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Look, you seriously need some outside individual therapy to teach you how to cope with this agony.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Find a good IC or MC.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

23, go to a counselor, NOW. You are reacting as if she was still screwing multiple men and rubbing your face in it. Time to step back a bit, and get some help. Don't worry about the cost - this is costing you much more.

And to onthefence - you didn't think Lord Mayhem was being serious, did you? He is one of the most epic posters on this entire website, and has helped dozens of people. That was him being VERY sarcastic.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

My daughter has a male friend who suffered from PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) as a consequence having been a soldier in Afghanistan. He underwent EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing Therapy) and no longer has PTSD. 

You might want to check it out to see if you can benefit from it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Come on man, shake this crap off. 
I will not let my W behavior define who I want to be. You can to the same. Fake it until you make it. No matter how hard be positive...force it and you will find positve things will come your way and soon it will come natural.

Shake this funk off and enjoy the fact you had a nice bike ride with the fam and look forward to more of them in the future.

Please stop letting this bs define you. Do not let this evil win, take control and beat this crap. You diserve to be happy and diserve good things make it happen. Make it happen by stop letting it control you....you control it.

Its not what knocks us down that counts, its how we get back up that matters!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Definitely go to counseling. Both of you, immediately, while there is still something left to counsel......very bad situation but its getting worse rather than better. Prayer for your family and good luck. Don't let your family down, get help.


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