# HD vs. LD - Perception vs. Reality



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I was thinking about this yesterday, and a brief conversation I had with my W last night fit in perfectly, so I thought it would be a good topic for conversation. 

As an LD (Low Drive/Desire) or HD (High Drive/Desire) person, do you find that your SO (or maybe people in general) have a certain perception about you that may not be accurate?

Probably one of the biggest issues in relationships where there is a drive mismatch, it can be very difficult for each person to understand where the other is coming from (i.e if you have ever only been HD it is not easy to understand how someone who is LD could not want sex all the time, and vice versa). You would hope that the couple would be able to openly communicate to each other, and work on a solution that has them meeting somewhere in the middle, but it seems like (just from reading here) that isn't always the case. Naturally this is not taking into account bait n switches.

I will give a few examples that popped in my head in another post.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I was thinking about this yesterday, and a brief conversation I had with my W last night fit in perfectly, so I thought it would be a good topic for conversation.
> 
> As an LD (Low Drive/Desire) or HD (High Drive/Desire) person, do you find that your SO (*or maybe people in general*) have a certain perception about you that may not be accurate?


I've found that if I describe myself (accurately) as a highly sexual person, some people will automatically assume this also means promiscuous, or lacking discernment, or that I was a CSA victim, or that I need validation....blah blah blah. Some people can't seem to understand the difference between highly sexual and sexually desperate.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I've found that if I describe myself (accurately) as a highly sexual person, some people will automatically assume this also means promiscuous, or lacking discernment, or that I was a CSA victim, or that I need validation....blah blah blah. Some people can't seem to understand the difference between highly sexual and sexually desperate.


There is often a high degree of shame with having a higher drive than your spouse in my experience as well. Rarely is having a strong drive valued and cherished. I once explained to my wife that I would not trade anything in the world for the desire that I have for her, it was only at that time that she finally started to see it as something valuable. Before that she would shame me and insist that I had a problem. 

In my opinion individuals that are highly sexual not only understand and accept ourselves sexually, but we _encourage_ ourselves to embrace it. That "encouragement" from within is what tends to scare other people because they _fear_ it can not be kept under control and that it will lead to destructive behaviors. While in reality it can serve exclusively to strengthen and celebrate a union. 

Badsanta


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

badsanta said:


> In my opinion individuals that are highly sexual *and healthy and self-aware*, not only understand and accept ourselves sexually, but we _encourage_ ourselves to embrace it. That "encouragement" from within is what tends to scare other people because they _fear_ it can not be kept under control and that it will lead to destructive behaviors. While in reality it can serve exclusively to strengthen and celebrate a union.
> 
> Badsanta


I added the bolded to your post because it is definitely true that a highly sexual person may not be healthy or self-aware, in which case they may become destructive, to self or others. The self-awareness is key. Overcoming shame is also key, of course. Personally I've never been shamed so I never had to go through that part. Well I mean people have tried to shame me, but I'm a shameless hussy so it just rolled off my back.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

One thing I have encountered as being a higher drive person:

- The notion that if you want sex it must be because you are a walking hornball. There are plenty of times I want to have sex with my W not because I am rockin a ragin woody, but more because I crave the intimacy/closeness/connection. I think at times an LD person is unable to differentiate 
this, that there is more to sex then just trying to get your rocks off.

On the other side, I can say being a HD person, making the mistake of assuming that if you try hard enough, that should be enough to make an LD person less "LD".


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> One thing I have encountered as being a higher drive person:
> 
> - The notion that if you want sex it must be because you are a walking hornball. There are plenty of times I want to have sex with my W not because I am rockin a ragin woody, but more because I crave the intimacy/closeness/connection. I think at times an LD person is unable to differentiate
> this, that there is more to sex then just trying to get your rocks off.
> ...


Agree with the caveat that a LD person can develop if they desire to.

Mrs. Conan became LD about 10 years in and just told me that she didn't feel the same sexually as she use to.

I have always been HD and possibly getting more HD with middle age and working through my emotional issues.

After many heartfelt discussions and work by both of us, she has increased her libido drastically and altered her nature.

She is initiating sex every day, become far more confident in and out of the bedroom and is honestly starting to intimate me with her abilities.

I don't know if intimidate is the correct term, maybe overwhelmed or surpassed. Those terms are probably more accurate.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Agree with the caveat that a LD person can develop if they desire to.
> 
> Mrs. Conan became LD about 10 years in and just told me that she didn't feel the same sexually as she use to.
> 
> ...


I think the key here as well, is Mrs C and yourself understanding the differences, and working together to meet in some sort of middle ground. She could have easily said "This is who I am, deal with it", but you and your marriage were obviously important enough to work on. After all, with everything in a relationship, shouldn't that be the goal, to work as a team.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> I think the key here as well, is Mrs C and yourself understanding the differences, and working together to meet in some sort of middle ground. She could have easily said "This is who I am, deal with it", but you and your marriage were obviously important enough to work on. After all, with everything in a relationship, shouldn't that be the goal, to work as a team.


Teamwork is a must.

She never wrote me off with a "deal with it" or "get use to it" statement. She always expressed concern and was loving but I still laid it down that she didn't marry a LD male.

If she would have given me a trite reply, I would have started moving for separation and divorce.

Some folks might only have a bonfire where lust is concerned but I'm a nuclear reactor and she knew it going in.

I let her know that I didn't want to spend my passion on anyone else and my desire was for her but my passion would not be denied whatever choice she made.


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

There is also a difference between HD and being a sex addict. My husband insisted on sex almost daily unless I was menstruating. Sometimes even then although he knew it grossed me out. He WANTED sex about 3x daily but he knew he wasn't going to get that from me. So instead he whacked off in his morning shower, and usually got out of bed after he thought I was asleep and spent the next 2-3 hours whacking off to porn on the internet or cable. On top of that he had a "bit on the side," mostly oral from his students or coworker's, for the entire duration of our marriage not that I found that out until after we split. I know most men can't even do it but I'm guessing he was getting off anywhere from 3-5 times per day for a while there. Granted we were only in our 20s-early 30s at the time.

I honestly don't know if I am HD or LD. He made me LD with him by making sex unenjoyable for me. With another man I might have wanted it as much as I was forced to have it although I think 2-3x per week would probably have suited me more than every single day for the better part of 12 years unless one of us was away for work. And even then I'm guessing he probably got it somewhere.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@Hellomynameis

Ugh....

I have a drive that high but don't cheat, look at porn or make my wife uncomfortable like that.

Sorry for your bad experiences but what a story!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> One thing I have encountered as being a higher drive person:
> 
> - *The notion that if you want sex it must be because you are a walking hornball. There are plenty of times I want to have sex with my W not because I am rockin a ragin woody, but more because I crave the intimacy/closeness/connection. I think at times an LD person is unable to differentiate
> this, that there is more to sex then just trying to get your rocks off.
> *


Ellis,

First of all, I want to say that I am THRILLED that you started this thread! I'm hoping we can all learn a lot from it:smile2:

What I've bolded is very true. But there are reasons the LD thinks this about HD's. You wrote that there are "plenty of times" that you wanted sex because you were craving intimacy/closeness/connection. But that means that there are also probably "plenty of times" that you ARE just 'rockin' a ragin woody' trying to get your rocks off. And there isn't a reliable way for the LD to differentiate. 

Look at it this way: If you found yourself suddenly unmarried, would you suddenly become LD? Probably not. Would you be seeking out sex because you wanted the intimacy or because you were horny? To some LD's it would seem like you're trying to have it both ways, and expecting the LD to 'know' the difference. 



> On the other side, I can say being a HD person, making the mistake of assuming that if you try hard enough, that should be enough to make an LD person less "LD


ConanHub wrote something in the 'Relationships and Spirituality" forum the other day that I thought was absolutely _brilliant_ and is quite applicable to this thread. He wrote: 



ConanHub said:


> *People are not hardwired LD or HD*. People are malleable and can alter their sexual appetites and drive by working on it. ... I'm not talking theoretically at all. I know several people personally that have altered their appetites and drives.


Believe me, when I read this, I was shouting at the computer, "Yes! YES!! YEEEEEEEE-EEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!"

But if we're not hardwired to be either HD or LD, why do we hear more success stories of the LD bringing 'up' their libido than the HD reducing theirs?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Hellomynameis said:


> I honestly don't know if I am HD or LD. He made me LD with him by making sex unenjoyable for me. With another man I might have wanted it as much as I was forced to have it although I think 2-3x per week would probably have suited me more than every single day for the better part of 12 years unless one of us was away for work. And even then I'm guessing he probably got it somewhere.


I think it is possible for your drive to be situational. I know some others here have commented that they have been HD with some people and LD with others.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Hellomynameis said:


> There is also a difference between HD and being a sex addict. My husband insisted on sex almost daily unless I was menstruating. Sometimes even then although he knew it grossed me out. He WANTED sex about 3x daily but he knew he wasn't going to get that from me. So instead he whacked off in his morning shower, and usually got out of bed after he thought I was asleep and spent the next 2-3 hours whacking off to porn on the internet or cable. On top of that he had a "bit on the side," mostly oral from his students or coworker's, for the entire duration of our marriage not that I found that out until after we split. I know most men can't even do it but I'm guessing he was getting off anywhere from 3-5 times per day for a while there. Granted we were only in our 20s-early 30s at the time.
> 
> I honestly don't know if I am HD or LD. He made me LD with him by making sex unenjoyable for me. With another man I might have wanted it as much as I was forced to have it although I think 2-3x per week would probably have suited me more than every single day for the better part of 12 years unless one of us was away for work. And even then I'm guessing he probably got it somewhere.


You and I have had such similar experiences in this regard. I am so sorry...:crying:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I've found that if I describe myself (accurately) as a highly sexual person, *some people will automatically assume this also means promiscuous, or lacking discernment*, or that I was a CSA victim, or that I need validation....blah blah blah. Some people can't seem to understand the difference between highly sexual and sexually desperate.





badsanta said:


> *There is often a high degree of shame with having a higher drive than your spouse* in my experience as well. Rarely is having a strong drive valued and cherished. I once explained to my wife that I would not trade anything in the world for the desire that I have for her, it was only at that time that she finally started to see it as something valuable. Before that she would shame me and insist that I had a problem.


Yes and yes. I'm sure that when I was in college, there were people who called me a slvt behind my back. But I wouldn't sleep with just anybody; I was judicious about who I slept with. I actually kept a sort of "sexual bucket list" of guys that I knew when I was in high school--guys that I wanted to sleep with if I got the opportunity. Not many guys made it onto that list, and if you weren't on that list, you didn't stand a chance. I never got all the guys on the list, but I had a lot of fun while I tried 

My XH tried to shame me for being HD. He even called me a freak of nature once [or something along those lines, I can't remember exactly anymore], and he said I was insatiable, early on in our relationship. I didn't really think anything of it at the time, because he was having sex with me as often as I wanted it, and he seemed to be enjoying it. But as our relationship became sexless--and the way he responded to me when I brought up the issue of us not having enough sex, I realized that he really did think I was a freak.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> Ellis,
> 
> First of all, I want to say that I am THRILLED that you started this thread! I'm hoping we can all learn a lot from it:smile2:
> 
> ...


I'll address the last part.

Being high HD, I am aware that Mrs. Conan is not actually physically capable of having intercourse with me as often as my natural itch happens.

So I have worked on myself to redirect my energies and in effect lower my libido a bit.

I still masturbate to relieve tensions and occasionally take care of myself a lot but she has full knowledge and neither of us has bad feelings about the other concerning it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> You and I have had such similar experiences in this regard. I am so sorry...:crying:


I thought I was having a "senior" moment reading it because it was so similar to yours! LOL!:laugh:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> Ellis,
> 
> First of all, I want to say that I am THRILLED that you started this thread! I'm hoping we can all learn a lot from it:smile2:
> 
> ...


You know I was waiting for you to chime in @Vega :grin2:

I agree that it may not always be clear for an LD to differentiate. However, this is where I think having an open line of communication comes into play. To me it isn't really about differentiating each and every time you have sex whether it is for the connection or you are just a flat out hornball (also, it could very well be a combination of both). It is more the unwillingness to work with your SO (meaning both the HD and LD working together). 

That being said, and I think this could be very situational based on how the SO treats you, your drive vs SO, and a variety of other factors, what is wrong with being a hornball and wanting to have sex with your SO, well, simply b/c you are in a monogamous relationship (i.e. Sex with that one person only is hopefully a condition of that relationship lol). This of course doesn't mean that the SO has to be at your call whenever you want to get off, but I think it is healthy when both people in the relationship want to please one another.

To answer your other question, no I would not just seek out sex with anyone because I was horny (sounds like this could be an assumption an LD could make of an HD, could be true for some and untrue for others such as myself) :grin2:


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I'll address the last part.
> 
> Being high HD, I am aware that Mrs. Conan is not actually physically capable of having intercourse with me as often as my natural itch happens.
> 
> ...


I think this is the difference. I was also the HD in a few relationships. But I had no problem taking care of myself WITHOUT causing grief to my partner. If I approached my partner and he didn't want to have sex, I would ask him if he wanted a backrub/footrub instead. Sometimes he would accept. Others, he wouldn't. 

I guess I just never thought of sex as a huge part of whether or not I was "desirable", nor did I think of it as the ONLY way (or even the BEST way) to be intimate/close/connected with someone. Maybe that was the LD in me...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> I think this is the difference. I was also the HD in a few relationships. But I had no problem taking care of myself WITHOUT causing grief to my partner. If I approached my partner and he didn't want to have sex, I would ask him if he wanted a backrub/footrub instead. Sometimes he would accept. Others, he wouldn't.
> 
> I guess I just never thought of sex as a huge part of whether or not I was "desirable", nor did I think of it as the ONLY way (or even the BEST way) to be intimate/close/connected with someone. Maybe that was the LD in me...


Well it depends on how your partner interacts with you as well.

I have observed that most people have a set of seduction triggers or switches, that when tripped, especially in the right order, become almost mindless with lust and ravenously in need of sex/fvcking.

Sorry but sex is almost too tame of a term for what I am trying to describe.

I am a proponent of seduction skills and have developed them for a very long time.

I have been nearly raped by women that were considered frigid or untouchable by their friends and acquaintances.

I believe knowing your own seduction triggers and learning your partner's is amazing and maybe not practiced as much as it should be from the sounds of what many say on TAM and in real life.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> One thing I have encountered as being a higher drive person:
> 
> *- The notion that if you want sex it must be because you are a walking hornball.* There are plenty of times I want to have sex with my W not because I am rockin a ragin woody, *but more because I crave the intimacy/closeness/connection.* I think at times an LD person is unable to differentiate
> this, that there is more to sex then just trying to get your rocks off.
> ...



But @EllisRedding if it is just the intimacy/closeness/connection you crave, then there should be plenty of other ways to express that other than by just getting your rocks off together! It sounds as though your rocks are confused!

Why can't you just enjoy a simple snuggle while you comfort your wife by allowing her to talk about all the things in the day that really stressed her out really bad? Why do you have to pressure her to suddenly switch gears and jolt her into trying to enjoy your penis being inside of her? WTF is wrong with you...
*
...that is my impression of an LD wife by the way. *As you said they are unable to differentiate our need to connect with them and enjoy making each other feel good after a stressful day. Often for an LD, instead of sex being something that helps one relax and unwind, it becomes a source of anxiety that his/her partner is in need of attention. Much like a baby crying to be held so it can calm down. The LD is exhausted and simply wants to be held and comforted while they let go of all their negative energy from the day. 

*In reality both the HD and LD are seeking ways to calm anxiety*, but just need different things from one another.


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## Changeseeker1 (Jan 31, 2017)

I'm currently LD but have been HD most of my adult life, with dips depending on the strength of the relationship. I'm HD while single, just for the irony.
In my experience pushing a LD into it when they don't want it makes the situation worse.

Sent from my HUAWEI Y360-U31 using Tapatalk


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

badsanta said:


> But @EllisRedding if it is just the intimacy/closeness/connection you crave, then there should be plenty of other ways to express that other than by just getting your rocks off together! It sounds as though your rocks are confused!
> 
> Why can't you just enjoy a simple snuggle while you comfort your wife by allowing her to talk about all the things in the day that really stressed her out really bad? Why do you have to pressure her to suddenly switch gears and jolt her into trying to enjoy your penis being inside of her? WTF is wrong with you...
> *
> ...


:scratchhead:

Hmmm...

I never thought of sex as a way to "relax and unwind after a stressful day". Bubble bath, yes. Reading, yes. Enjoying a nice dinner out, yes. Watching comedy on t.v., yes. 

But sex tends to wake me up! :grin2:

As for a day being "stressful", I think we overuse that term. Seems that so many people these days are "stressed out" over the smallest things.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Agree with the caveat that a LD person can develop if they desire to.
> 
> Mrs. Conan became LD about 10 years in and just told me that she didn't feel the same sexually as she use to.
> 
> ...


It's good to know that being LD can be temporary although her change in desire may have alot to do with where she is in the marriage. If the two of you are always at odds, the LD state may stay that way.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There is a lot of range. Some HD people might better be described as sex addicts - wanting sex >1/day as a purely physical thing, not caring about their partners. Some LDs want sex less than once a month, no matter what the circumstances are, even if their partners are the most wonderful people in the world. 

Then there are relatively LD and HD people where the HD may prefer sex daily, and the LD weekly. 

In these discussions, the LDs who are posting are typically of the second sort, wanting sex maybe a bit more often than weekly, but paired with a HD of the first sort who insists on sex all the time.

The HDs posting typically are the second sort, wanting sex a few times a week, but paired with LDs of the first sort who essentially never want sex.

This makes the discussion difficult. 


One thing that applies to me, and I think other (moderatly) HD people is that I do not separate sex from other forms of intimacy. I view it as a natural part of everyday intimacy, hugs, kisses, touches - not as a separate activity. Its clear on the other hand that my LD wife views it as an entirely separate activity.


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

Regarding truly LD people - it would be interesting to do a study to see how many of them have symptoms that would put them on the ASD spectrum. I've read a lot on high functioning autism because my son is borderline, and one thing I have come across more than once is that people on the spectrum tend to run very LD. #1 because they have a hard time connecting emotionally and #2 because many of them can't handle intense physical sensations. And many of the ones who do have higher sex drives often end up coming across as "horndogs" as it was put earlier, because they don't engage their emotions during sex and often come across as selfish regarding their partners' needs. I have often wondered if this was my husband's problem.


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## Changeseeker1 (Jan 31, 2017)

Hellomynameis said:


> Regarding truly LD people - it would be interesting to do a study to see how many of them have symptoms that would put them on the ASD spectrum. I've read a lot on high functioning autism because my son is borderline, and one thing I have come across more than once is that people on the spectrum tend to run very LD. #1 because they have a hard time connecting emotionally and #2 because many of them can't handle intense physical sensations. And many of the ones who do have higher sex drives often end up coming across as "horndogs" as it was put earlier, because they don't engage their emotions during sex and often come across as selfish regarding their partners' needs. I have often wondered if this was my husband's problem.


I have a ASD son also and would argue that they're just as capable being HD. craving and obsessing over release. Also breaking routine etc having difficulty if partner refuses sex on a Friday when that always do it on a Friday. I'd say ASD could go either way.

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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> You know I was waiting for you to chime in @Vega :grin2:


:lol::rofl:

Yeah, you KNEW that I couldn't resist! 

As for the rest of your post below, I DO want to respond to it. But because of what a few posters have written after your post, I have to re-think what I wanted to say. I'll have to come back to this later. 



> I agree that it may not always be clear for an LD to differentiate. However, this is where I think having an open line of communication comes into play. To me it isn't really about differentiating each and every time you have sex whether it is for the connection or you are just a flat out hornball (also, it could very well be a combination of both). It is more the unwillingness to work with your SO (meaning both the HD and LD working together).
> 
> That being said, and I think this could be very situational based on how the SO treats you, your drive vs SO, and a variety of other factors, what is wrong with being a hornball and wanting to have sex with your SO, well, simply b/c you are in a monogamous relationship (i.e. Sex with that one person only is hopefully a condition of that relationship lol). This of course doesn't mean that the SO has to be at your call whenever you want to get off, but I think it is healthy when both people in the relationship want to please one another.
> 
> To answer your other question, no I would not just seek out sex with anyone because I was horny (sounds like this could be an assumption an LD could make of an HD, could be true for some and untrue for others such as myself) :grin2


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

uhtred said:


> There is a lot of range. Some HD people might better be described as sex addicts - wanting sex >1/day as a purely physical thing, not caring about their partners. Some LDs want sex less than once a month, no matter what the circumstances are, even if their partners are the most wonderful people in the world.
> 
> Then there are relatively LD and HD people where the HD may prefer sex daily, and the LD weekly.
> 
> ...



I think this is very true. My ex-husband was approaching me for sex so often that I was probably turning him down 75% of the time. And yet, we were having sex usually 5+ times per week, sometimes a good bit more. He would - and did - absolutely describe me as frigid and told both of our MCs that I just didn't like sex. The gulf between my preference for 2-3 times a week and his preference for 2-3 times a day was just so large that one of us was bound to be at least somewhat unhappy. And, yet, I'm not sure I could objectively be described as LD. Nor, I imagine, would his drive be an issue for someone with a drive similar to his own. Our respective drives were simply not compatible.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Vega said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> Hmmm...
> 
> ...


Sex is THE BEST way to relieve stress!!! For me, anyway--I'm always relaxed and dreamy after.

Don't discount how "stressed" people are. It's our culture now, unfortunately. And those little, daily stressors can add up and seriously impact people's health.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

That is VERY interesting. I'd never connected it before, but my wife does have a tendency in the ASD direction. (not at all serous, but its there, she clearly has trouble reading people).




Hellomynameis said:


> Regarding truly LD people - it would be interesting to do a study to see how many of them have symptoms that would put them on the ASD spectrum. I've read a lot on high functioning autism because my son is borderline, and one thing I have come across more than once is that people on the spectrum tend to run very LD. #1 because they have a hard time connecting emotionally and #2 because many of them can't handle intense physical sensations. And many of the ones who do have higher sex drives often end up coming across as "horndogs" as it was put earlier, because they don't engage their emotions during sex and often come across as selfish regarding their partners' needs. I have often wondered if this was my husband's problem.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

These discussions may become clearer if people are more specific about frequencies. Rather than just LD/HD, your husband wanted ~20times/week, you wanted 2-3

In my case I woud like 3-5X/week, my wife approx 1/4 weeks (with a lot of variation). 




Rowan said:


> I think this is very true. My ex-husband was approaching me for sex so often that I was probably turning him down 75% of the time. And yet, we were having sex usually 5+ times per week, sometimes a good bit more. He would - and did - absolutely describe me as frigid and told both of our MCs that I just didn't like sex. The gulf between my preference for 2-3 times a week and his preference for 2-3 times a day was just so large that one of us was bound to be at least somewhat unhappy. And, yet, I'm not sure I could objectively be described as LD. Nor, I imagine, would his drive be an issue for someone with a drive similar to his own. Our respective drives were simply not compatible.


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

uhtred said:


> That is VERY interesting. I'd never connected it before, but my wife does have a tendency in the ASD direction. (not at all serous, but its there, she clearly has trouble reading people).


Does she suffer from sensory overload in other areas? If this is the case orgasms may actually be TOO intense for her.

Google Asperger's syndrome and sex drive. There's some interesting material out there.


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## 247769 (May 18, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> One thing I have encountered as being a higher drive person:
> 
> - The notion that if you want sex it must be because you are a walking hornball. There are plenty of times I want to have sex with my W not because I am rockin a ragin woody, but more because I crave the intimacy/closeness/connection. I think at times an LD person is unable to differentiate
> this, that there is more to sex then just trying to get your rocks off.
> ...


Well spoken, I wholeheartedly agree with you

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> Ellis,
> 
> First of all, I want to say that I am THRILLED that you started this thread! I'm hoping we can all learn a lot from it:smile2:
> 
> ...


Because HD love sex. It feels good. I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like maybe some LD haven't had great experiences with sex or that maybe they don't orgasm as much\easily? Or maybe that they aren't sexually liberated as some HD people. Perhaps some LD people rewire their brains because they begin to explore more and create positive associations with sex. 

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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> You and I have had such similar experiences in this regard. I am so sorry...:crying:


I agree, there is a huge difference between sex addiction and being HD. I think a lot of people would be LD towards an unfaithful partner. I'm sorry you had to go through that. 

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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

badsanta said:


> But @EllisRedding if it is just the intimacy/closeness/connection you crave, then there should be plenty of other ways to express that other than by just getting your rocks off together! It sounds as though your rocks are confused!
> 
> Why can't you just enjoy a simple snuggle while you comfort your wife by allowing her to talk about all the things in the day that really stressed her out really bad? Why do you have to pressure her to suddenly switch gears and jolt her into trying to enjoy your penis being inside of her? WTF is wrong with you...
> *
> ...


I like your perspective of each trying to calm anxiety. I still don't understand how forgoing sex helps anyone though. I try to understand but it's hard. Being sexual is such a huge part of who I am that it causes me great discomfort having such a huge piece of me missing in my marriage. I love my husband so much though. I suppose we all have to make sacrifices somewhere. 

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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> Because HD love sex. It feels good. I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like maybe some LD haven't had great experiences with sex or that maybe they don't orgasm as much\easily? Or maybe that they aren't sexually liberated as some HD people. Perhaps some LD people rewire their brains because they begin to explore more and create positive associations with sex.


There's a lot to unpack in here.

I think there are probably many LD people who are that way because they haven't had good experiences with sex. Maybe their partners have been clueless, or selfish, or physically incompatible. The LD person may actually have a healthy drive, but just doesn't enjoy sex with the partner they have, so they don't see the point.

When I hear of HD/LD conflict, I always suggest that the HD person first try to focus on the LD partner's pleasure, making sex all about them to the extent of refusing their own climax. Do that for long enough to rewire the LD person's enjoyment.

But ultimately, compromise doesn't really work. When one person wants it every day, but their partner wants it weekly, you can't say to meet in the middle at every other day. The HD person is still deprived of half the sex they want, while the LD person is enduring triple what they would prefer, and neither of them are any happier. I'd say they both feel worse, in fact, because now they each feel that they are trying so hard and sacrificing so much, but their partner is still not happy.

And LD will always win, because being forced or coerced to have sex when you don't want to is rape.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> There's a lot to unpack in here.
> 
> I think there are probably many LD people who are that way because they haven't had good experiences with sex. Maybe their partners have been clueless, or selfish, or physically incompatible. The LD person may actually have a healthy drive, but just doesn't enjoy sex with the partner they have, so they don't see the point.
> 
> ...


Wow that's a good point. I've experienced what it's like a few times to feel like my husband is just doing it to please me. I hadn't considered that it is technically rape. Ughhh. It's hard being an HD with an LD person because I really do want my spouse to enjoy it anf love it as much as I do. It takes all the fun and emotion out of sex when it feels like the other person is just going through the motions. 

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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> Because HD love sex. It feels good. I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like maybe some LD haven't had great experiences with sex or that maybe they don't orgasm as much\easily? Or maybe that they aren't sexually liberated as some HD people. Perhaps some LD people rewire their brains because they begin to explore more and create positive associations with sex.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


While all of what you write it's true, sometimes it's none of the above. 

An LD can enjoy sex and think it's wonderful if it's _in moderation_. It's just not something they want to do often because there are other things to do/experience. And some things they like doing even MORE than sex. 

They don't want it to be a 'routine', either. Must-have-sex-X-amount-of-times-per-week is too predictable, even if it's done on different days of the week. And if it's done every day, it's no different than brushing your teeth. Doing it too often kind of takes the 'specialness' away from it. It would be like celebrating Christmas every day. Or eating chicken every day. No matter how much you dress it up, in the end, it's still _chicken_. 

For the HD, there seems to be a goal: Orgasm. Sex isn't sex without it. The orgasm is part of that routine. It's like reading the same story over and over again, knowing how it's going to end. Boring. 

Some LD's see sex as more of a journey WITHOUT always having to have a destination. Did you ever get into a car just to go for a drive? You don't have a destination in mind. You just drive and enjoy the scenery. The music. The conversation. The laughter. The touching for the sake of touching without it having to lead anywhere. (One of the biggest complaints that the LD has is that they can't show their partner non-sexual affection without the HD wanting to have sex!) One of the perceptions of the HD is that the HD wants sex and orgasms (the destination) while the LD wants _intimacy_ (the journey). 

Also, many LD's are looking for _quality_ over_ quantity_, whereas the HD seems to seek quantity over quality. 

This thread is about perceptions, so I'm throwing these out to show the perceptions the LD may have of the HD, and of sex _period_.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> While all of what you write it's true, sometimes it's none of the above.
> 
> An LD can enjoy sex and think it's wonderful if it's _in moderation_. It's just not something they want to do often because there are other things to do/experience. And some things they like doing even MORE than sex.
> 
> ...


Your insight is definitely something to consider. However, being an HD person myself I know that for me kissing and hugging does not always need to lead to sex. I really like being kissed hello and goodbye by my spouse every day. For myself physical intimacy goes far beyond only having sex. When you refer to other forms of intimacy are you referring to them taking place sporadically throughout the day or are you referring to the big 'fireworks' event. Personally I would find it very difficult to lay in bed making out with my husband without having sex with him. I feel like he would feel a little underwhelmed too. I definitely like sex to include an orgasm. I can see how can conceive that orgasms are a goal of sex. I agree, but honestly I quite like that goal. The journey there ain't too bad either. I feel like a quite a few LD people may be LD because their partners neglect their needs in bed leaving them sexually frustrated. If I were with a selfish spouce like that I think I would easily become LD in the relationship.

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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> Your insight is definitely something to consider. However, being an HD person myself I know that for me kissing and hugging does not always need to lead to sex. I really like being kissed hello and goodbye by my spouse every day. For myself physical intimacy goes far beyond only having sex. *When you refer to other forms of intimacy are you referring to them taking place sporadically throughout the day or are you referring to the big 'fireworks' event. Personally I would find it very difficult to lay in bed making out with my husband without having sex with him.* I feel like he would feel a little underwhelmed too. I definitely like sex to include an orgasm. I can see how can conceive that orgasms are a goal of sex. I agree, but honestly I quite like that goal. The journey there ain't too bad either.


The other forms of intimacy _can_ be throughout the day. But again, it depends on what kind of 'intimacy' we're talking about. Giving me long hug can be very intimate. Giving me a hug and putting *your* hand up my shirt or down my pants, not so much. The first signals 'affection'. The latter, sex. 

As for laying in bed making out with my husband (when I was married, that is), I could have done that for HOURS _without_ having sex with him. Him, not so much. 



> I feel like a quite a few LD people may be LD because their partners neglect their needs in bed leaving them sexually frustrated.


Oh, absolutely! Like I've mentioned before, it seems like many HD's seek quantity, while the LD seeks quality. There isn't always that much time to have sex in such a way that would benefit the LD. Rinse and repeat a number of times, and the LD can easily become ND. Plus, it isn't only neglecting their needs IN bed, but out of bed as well. Intimacy is on going throughout the day. Non-sexual intimacy can lead to sexual intimacy. Maybe not all the time, but perhaps more than 'before'. 



> If I were with a selfish spouce like that I think I would easily become LD in the relationship


BTDT.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> I like your perspective of each trying to calm anxiety. *I still don't understand how forgoing sex helps anyone though.* I try to understand but it's hard. Being sexual is such a huge part of who I am that it causes me great discomfort having such a huge piece of me missing in my marriage. I love my husband so much though. I suppose we all have to make sacrifices somewhere.


Someone here at TAM once explained this. Try to recall how you feel shortly after having an orgasm. Rested. Relaxed. Satisfied. Calm. Do you feel like you 'need' sex again RIGHT AFTER you've had sex? Probably not. 

The LD often feels that way MOST OF THE TIME _without_ having sex. Even if they DO feel a bit 'stressed' from time to time, the idea of sex can make them MORE stressed because it usually isn't what they need. The HD may use sex as a sort of Valium and can't understand WHY *you* (the HD) wants the LD to take Valium _too_, when the LD doesn't feel 'stressed'. 

Personally, if I have a headache, I would go to the medicine chest and pop a couple of Advil. I would NOT expect my partner to pop a few, too. If there was no Advil available, perhaps I'd make myself a cup of tea. Again, I wouldn't expect my partner to drink tea _with _me. 

Perhaps the LD's are a bit more independent of their partner and feel annoyed that their partner isn't as independent... of that the HD is bit..."needy"?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> Perhaps the LD's are a bit more independent of their partner and feel annoyed that their partner isn't as independent... of that the HD is bit..."needy"?


Could very well be if the HD is constantly asking or begging for sex. However, not sure I would equate HD as not being independent. If anything, it could be the opposite. I am very independent. It is very easy for me to do my own thing. Sex with my W helps build that connection with her. Without it, it is very easy for me to just go about and do my own thing. 

I think a few others here pointed out their own situations where their LD spouse still wanted a form of physical intimacy, just not necessarily the sex aspect (which still shows some form of codependence). 

I think the challenge, and could go along with how we perceive things, my guess we probably all have slightly different definitions of what we believe constitutes a high drive and low drive person.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

uhtred said:


> These discussions may become clearer if people are more specific about frequencies. Rather than just LD/HD, your husband wanted ~20times/week, you wanted 2-3
> 
> In my case I woud like 3-5X/week, my wife approx 1/4 weeks (with a lot of variation).


Great point.

I would consider myself high HD. Could easily go 3x a day.

Mrs. Conan could be considered HD now. 1x daily.

She did hit a point many years ago where it was maybe 1x a month and no initiation by her. She now initiates daily.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> Someone here at TAM once explained this. Try to recall how you feel shortly after having an orgasm. Rested. Relaxed. Satisfied. Calm. Do you feel like you 'need' sex again RIGHT AFTER you've had sex? Probably not.
> 
> The LD often feels that way MOST OF THE TIME _without_ having sex. Even if they DO feel a bit 'stressed' from time to time, the idea of sex can make them MORE stressed because it usually isn't what they need. The HD may use sex as a sort of Valium and can't understand WHY *you* (the HD) wants the LD to take Valium _too_, when the LD doesn't feel 'stressed'.
> 
> ...


Your thought process has been developed in a different direction than mine for sure.

Being more HD than Mrs. Conan for our entire marriage, I can honestly say she is not close to as independent as me. HD and dependency aren't correlating factors of each other.

An HD can be more needy but often the LD is.

There is nothing wrong with having your libido subdued. It is a choice to develop yourself in certain fashion unless medical.

The problem arises when you want to mate with someone who hasn't decided along the same lines as you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Great point.
> 
> I would consider myself high HD. Could easily go 3x a day.
> 
> ...


I suppose I'd be considered LD by many here.....I'm usually good for 2-3X per week. Fortunately that seems to be good for my husband too as he's a little older now. 

I could probably manage a little more if it was important to him as I really enjoy it, but too much would limit my enjoyment for any of it since I'd never get to recover and would never have time to think about it and miss it.

Then I would become resentful because I would have less enjoyment so he could get more sex; I think a balance needs to be found there.

Does your wife genuinely enjoy daily sex or does she initiate so you don't get cranky? Hopefully it's the former and that's great for both of you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I suppose I'd be considered LD by many here.....I'm usually good for 2-3X per week. Fortunately that seems to be good for my husband too as he's a little older now.
> 
> I could probably manage a little more if it was important to him as I really enjoy it, but too much would limit my enjoyment for any of it since I'd never get to recover and would never have time to think about it and miss it.
> 
> ...


She literally upped her.libido, sexuality and confidence.

She developed a hunger for sex and turned the table on me.

She basically hunts me sexually and her aggression and skill in the bedroom is borderline frightening compared to how she use to be.

She is undergoing transformations in other areas as well.

I took her dancing before Christmas. We have literally only danced a handful of times in 25 years and it wasn't very good. I loved to dance when I was single BTW.

So anyway, we go to a casino with my coworkers and she looks like dynamite. I get her on the floor and an amazingly sexy, confident woman stepped out of her and started dancing, WELL!

It was soon evident that I was the weaker partner and barely keeping up! We looked fantastic, mostly her and absolutely owned the floor.

I got tired after 4 dances but she was still ready to rock.

I finally led her off the floor while she was still going.

A younger woman in our group leaned over and told us "You guys really broke it down out there!" she had a huge smile and wide eyes. I don't think they were expecting the show us middle aged folks put on.

I believe that Mrs. Conan, and probably many people, had untapped potential that she didn't trust to let out.

The things she does to me in and out of the bedroom are changing our dynamic.

I've always felt loved by her but now I feel consumed.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. @lifeistooshort

I certainly wouldn't consider you LD. You seem to be very healthy with your frequency.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

One other perception, which I think FW was alluding to, is trying to draw a correlation between ones drive and how promiscuous they are. Just because you are HD doesn't mean you engage in frequent casual sex, or are always on the hunt to get laid at all costs with whoever is willing and able. You can be very sexual and have a healthy sex drive, all contained within a relationship. On the other hand, just b/c you have run up a large body count doesn't necessarily mean you are high drive. I did know several women who had a "large" count, but the reality was they had low self esteem and engaged in casual sex b/c that is what they thought they needed to do to get the guy to like them. You run into issues here, where a guy sees this, figures that she must love sex so expect this non stop once they get into a relationship, only to find out that it really isn't the case for her (maybe a bait & switch, not necessarily).


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The LD may have a predetermined SLA (frequency) and they may be reluctant to go over it because of fear of more sex expectations if they go along. Likewise if they enjoy too much, etc they fear that may trigger higher expectations from their partners.

I am not generalizing but it's something to consider. They come to see intimacy not as an integral part of a marriage but as a vacation or expensive eating out experience of sorts. 

Once they're in this mindset it's not easy - often possible - to change their attitude. Culture and FOO play into this as well.


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## 247769 (May 18, 2016)

I wonder how much of today's culture causes us HD people to think about sex more. Are we more sensitive to being aroused by things we see and hear vs our LD spouses? Does this exacerbate our situations?

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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

So here's a question. If I'm LD with my partner but masturbate frequently, am I truly LD? Or just situationally LD?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think that is likely true in many cases, but there are also cases where the LD is able to physically enjoy sex, or at least orgasm. My wife does O almost every time (or has been faking for 30 years??) and claims to enjoy sex, but only wants it very rarely. 

OTOH, there are postings from some LD's here who appear to have been with selfish lovers who didn't care at all about their pleasure. 




Mollymolz said:


> Because HD love sex. It feels good. I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like maybe some LD haven't had great experiences with sex or that maybe they don't orgasm as much\easily? Or maybe that they aren't sexually liberated as some HD people. Perhaps some LD people rewire their brains because they begin to explore more and create positive associations with sex.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think there really are three different situations when there is sex that the LD doesn't want.

The LD can actively enjoy pleasing their partner, even if they are not in the mood themselves - I see no trouble with this. 

The LD can be going along with sex that they don't particularly want. This is unfortunate, maybe OK once in a while.

The LD can feel they *must* have sex that they actively don't want, and this can easily blend into rape. I'd still keep the clear boundary that its only really rape if it is made clear to the partner that they want sex to stop. (Its an entirely different discussion, but I think in a marriage, the assumptions about consent when nothing specific has been said are different). ((note the "nothing has been said" - consent is still consent).




Mollymolz said:


> Wow that's a good point. I've experienced what it's like a few times to feel like my husband is just doing it to please me. I hadn't considered that it is technically rape. Ughhh. It's hard being an HD with an LD person because I really do want my spouse to enjoy it anf love it as much as I do. It takes all the fun and emotion out of sex when it feels like the other person is just going through the motions.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think it depends on why you masturbate but don't want sex.

If your partner is a poor or selfish lover, then you are not LD, you just have a bad partner. 

If you might enjoy sex with other people of your partner's gender, then you may just have no attraction for your partner.

If you might enjoy sex with someone of a different gender than your partner, then your orientation doesn't match your relationship.

If you enjoy masturbation but not sex with anyone, then this may be sort of like an "orientation:. Since there are people attracted to men, attracted to women, or attracted to both, I don't see why there can't be people who are attracted to neither, but still enjoy O's. 




Hellomynameis said:


> So here's a question. If I'm LD with my partner but masturbate frequently, am I truly LD? Or just situationally LD?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think in a lot of cases this is true. 
In milder cases the HD can imagine this, and the LD can imagine how they felt the last time that they *really* wanted sex, since that may be how the HD feels all the time.

In more extreme cases, the LD may never have felt as much desire as the HD has all the time, and the HD never as little as the LD has all the time.

I know that when we do have sex, after I've finoshed I'm always happy to do whatever my wife wants to please her. That suggests that even when I'm at my lowest levels of interest, they are higher than her typical levels.




Vega said:


> Someone here at TAM once explained this. Try to recall how you feel shortly after having an orgasm. Rested. Relaxed. Satisfied. Calm. Do you feel like you 'need' sex again RIGHT AFTER you've had sex? Probably not.
> 
> The LD often feels that way MOST OF THE TIME _without_ having sex. Even if they DO feel a bit 'stressed' from time to time, the idea of sex can make them MORE stressed because it usually isn't what they need. The HD may use sex as a sort of Valium and can't understand WHY *you* (the HD) wants the LD to take Valium _too_, when the LD doesn't feel 'stressed'.
> 
> snip


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hellomynameis said:


> So here's a question. If I'm LD with my partner but masturbate frequently, am I truly LD? Or just situationally LD?


Doesn't sound LD at all just not into your partner.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Doesn't sound LD at all just not into your partner.


I'm curious about this, Conan. 

_Why _do we HAVE to direct ALL or ALMOST ALL of our sexual 'energy' toward (a) partner?

The reason I'm asking is because I used to believe this. But after reading/research, I'm not so sure anymore...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> I'm curious about this, Conan.
> 
> _Why _do we HAVE to direct ALL or ALMOST ALL of our sexual 'energy' toward (a) partner?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is because I used to believe this. But after reading/research, I'm not so sure anymore...


I think for some/many the issue is more when the partner replaces the sexual energy. Perfect example, H wants to have sex with W. W rejects him because she already serviced herself and is now not in the mood.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> I think for some/many the issue is more when the partner replaces the sexual energy. Perfect example, H wants to have sex with W. W rejects him because she already serviced herself and is now not in the mood.


But when she was servicing _herself_ she wasn't in the mood for sex, either! 

Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through _sex._. 

So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> But when she was servicing _herself_ she wasn't in the mood for sex, either!
> 
> Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through _sex._.
> 
> So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?


Like I said, I don't see it wrong necessarily. I see it wrong if it means that the SO shows less interest in having sex with the partner. At a minimum it should be something discussed between both people. Why bother being in a monogamous relationship where the sexual interest your SO directs towards you may be very dependent on whether or not they rather take care of themselves? The answer to that may very well hinge on how much you value sex as part of the relationship.

IMO, if things are going fine with my W in terms of sex and she wants to go solo as need be, I am fine with. If things aren't going fine (which is more often the case) and her solo count is greater then our time together, I view it as a problem (the problem not necessarily being the solo sessions unless that is the reason for the fewer partnered encounters). Now keep in mind, just in my situation, it is not like I want sex every day or multiple times a day but we are only having it 1x a week. I am at the other end, where it is not uncommon we go a month or longer without (until a few days ago we had gone nearly 2 months, but in all fairness a decent amount of that was due to reasonable circumstances).


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The sense that it is a negotiation and that giving ground will just result in more requests is a big problem. 

If the HD wants 3x/week and the LD 1/month, then if the LD "agrees" to 1/week, they may feel that they will still be pressured for more. The problem is that the natural affection the HD feels from some increase in sex life may be perceived as "pressure" by the LD. 




john117 said:


> The LD may have a predetermined SLA (frequency) and they may be reluctant to go over it because of fear of more sex expectations if they go along. Likewise if they enjoy too much, etc they fear that may trigger higher expectations from their partners.
> 
> I am not generalizing but it's something to consider. They come to see intimacy not as an integral part of a marriage but as a vacation or expensive eating out experience of sorts.
> 
> Once they're in this mindset it's not easy - often possible - to change their attitude. Culture and FOO play into this as well.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Nothing wrong with servicing yourself in addition to having sex with a partner. 

I think the problem is when it seems that self-service is "replacing" sex with a partner. This gets to the tricky problem that for some people an O is not what is desired, "sex" is what is desired.

To the LD it feels reasonable to take care of themselves, and to have their partner do the same. 

To the HD it can feel that sex is being "replaced" by masturbation. That can feel the same as having sex replaced by porn. 


Of course we have to be careful about the definition of "sex". A woman might want an orgasm but not PIV. In that case the question is whether her partner would be happy with other mutual sexual activities, or only wants PIV. That will depend on the person. 

In general, trying to apply general rules is difficult - there is just so much variation.








Vega said:


> But when she was servicing _herself_ she wasn't in the mood for sex, either!
> 
> Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through _sex._.
> 
> So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> But when she was servicing _herself_ she wasn't in the mood for sex, either!
> 
> Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through _sex._.
> 
> So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?


Ok. I understand this.

I really understand this.

I love orgasms. I love them so much I am probably an addict. I have, at times, masturbated so much in a day that I was sore the next.

Sex with a partner takes far more effort and is far less selfish.

That is really the bottom line. I understand selfish, lazy behavior that gives an easy reward.

It doesn't, however, help in anyway connect me with my wife. Too much and the opposite occurs.

I have learned that pouring my lust and passion into Mrs C bonds us both closer.

I am now of the view, that if she could physically take it, I would never masturbate again unless it was part of our play time.

Realistically though, there just aren't many women, much less in middle age, that can engage in intercourse 3-4 times a day and sometimes more.

She is at a place where she absolutely would do more if she wasn't sore. She genuinely desires it but at most, 2x in a couple hours and she is sore for a while.

Your view isn't bad for single person or someone in an unimportant, or light relationship.


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Of course we have to be careful about the definition of "sex". A woman might want an orgasm but not PIV. In that case the question is whether her partner would be happy with other mutual sexual activities, or only wants PIV. That will depend on the person.
> 
> In general, trying to apply general rules is difficult - there is just so much variation.


This is exactly it for me. I masturbate because I can't orgasm through PIV but PIV is the only sexual activity my husband was willing to engage in. I doubt it would have bothered him that I masturbated because he was getting PIV on average 1x daily from me. And considering how often HE masturbated (1-3x daily) he would have been one heck of a hypocrite to be upset that I did.

I had a boyfriend in high school who loved doing mutual oral. I found it highly enjoyable. I think if my husband had been willing to substitute PIV for oral even just once a week I might have been able to maintain my desire for him. But although oral was frequent before we married, I don't think it happened more than once a year after we married.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Hellomynameis said:


> So here's a question. If I'm LD with my partner but masturbate frequently, am I truly LD? Or just situationally LD?


It depends. Why do you chose to fly solo instead of have sex? 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> It depends. Why do you chose to fly solo instead of have sex?
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Why do you HAVE to choose sex instead of flying solo?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Ok. I understand this.
> 
> I really understand this.
> 
> ...


And "addict" is the way a lot of LD's see the HD. Talk about "perception", lol! 

In all honesty, even though I have had a bunch of orgasm through oral/PIV (late husband withstanding), I never, ever, EVER felt like if I didn't have sex/orgasms, I would absolutely perish...or just "die"...or be so "miserable" that I couldn't function or...."other" some depressing negative feeling that I would carry with me for who-knows-how-long. 




> Sex with a partner takes far more effort and is far less selfish.


Sez WHO?! I'll tell ya Conan...I'm a very "accommodating" "service-oriented" person. I agree that sex takes far more effort, but NOT that it's "less selfish". In fact, I see sex "with ourselves" as LESS selfish than putting the "burden" on our partner. 

And while your wife may not want to "connect physically" with you at that moment, do you think that means that she has less love for you? (understanding that we're talking about _perceptions_ on this thread...)




> Your view isn't bad for single person or someone in an unimportant, or light relationship


Everything I've been posting isn't necessarily *my* view. I have admitted before---and still do---that I'm LEARNING. I have so many questions and what gets me the most is the gross contradictions of so many people who talk about sex. 

Trust me when I tell you that the extremes in viewpoints on this forum have really helped me to form my own new "sexual self".

....for the next unexpected "victim" of mine...muahahahahahahah!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It requires less selfishness to have good sex with a partner because you consider their desires for a good experience that is.

Masturbation is purely self serving and no consideration is needed for another.

I love orgasms but I love a lot of things about life. 

I'm passionate and any partner wanting to pursue me knows it.

No deceit going in.

A woman that didn't want to be regularly ravaged and sent to bed bowlegged need not apply! LOL!

I'm not into false advertising so someone who wanted far less sex and more masturbation would have avoided me.

Sex is very bonding. I am personally convinced of the superiority of regular and frequent sexual intercourse, foreplay and oral too please, over self gratification for the health of couples and their interaction on many levels.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Vega said:


> Someone here at TAM once explained this. Try to recall how you feel shortly after having an orgasm. Rested. Relaxed. Satisfied. Calm. Do you feel like you 'need' sex again RIGHT AFTER you've had sex? Probably not.
> 
> The LD often feels that way MOST OF THE TIME _without_ having sex. Even if they DO feel a bit 'stressed' from time to time, the idea of sex can make them MORE stressed because it usually isn't what they need. The HD may use sex as a sort of Valium and can't understand WHY *you* (the HD) wants the LD to take Valium _too_, when the LD doesn't feel 'stressed'.
> 
> Personally, if I have a headache, I would go to the medicine chest and pop a couple of Advil. I would NOT expect my partner to pop a few, too. If there was no Advil available, perhaps I'd make myself a cup of tea. Again, I wouldn't expect my partner to drink tea _with _me.


That's really thought-provoking. But I don't think your analogy is quite right. The HD person isn't expecting the LD person to also take a pill, or also drink the tea. The HD person is treating the LD partner LIKE a pill or tea.

If the LD partner feels like the HD partner wants sex for the relaxing Valium effect, then the LD partner would feel no more loved and cared for than the pill is.

Using sex as a coping tool to deal with stress seems pretty harmful to a partner.

Also, I'm just thinking that the HD/LD divide is a lot like the extrovert/introvert one. Some people recharge with a party and crowds, some people find that hugely stressful and can only do it rarely and for a limited amount of time, preferring to recharge by being alone with a book. An introvert may enjoy the occasional party, but still doesn't want to do it very often.

Now try telling the extrovert they aren't allowed to go out without their partner.


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## Saibasu (Nov 3, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> I was thinking about this yesterday, and a brief conversation I had with my W last night fit in perfectly, so I thought it would be a good topic for conversation.
> 
> As an LD (Low Drive/Desire) or HD (High Drive/Desire) person, do you find that your SO (or maybe people in general) have a certain perception about you that may not be accurate?
> 
> ...


When I first met my husband his drive was much higher than my own and his experience vastly outweighed mine. It was intimidating to be honest, but I fell hard and fast (no pun intended) for him. I was quite shy and more reserved sexually and the word "prude" had been used to describe me before. I honestly just accepted that I'm LD and my husband was HD and he would always be frustrated with me. But boyyyyy was I wrong. Once I learned some new tricks and felt reassured by my husband that he's crazy about me, I honestly WORKED HARD on raising my drive. We were so mismatched before, thinking back I can imagine how hard it must have been for him (again no pun intended). But his happiness was important to me. I went from a sexual noob who fumbled her way through it and felt like a fool doing so, to a confident lover who's pretty much his sex slave. Now ten years later we are both HD people and we are intimate pretty much daily (kids and life can interfere) and NOTHING (except other people) is out of bounds.

I firmly believe people can alter their drives AND their likes. Often either one or both of these things can cause marital or LTR turmoil. Look at me, I went from LD my whole adult life with zero interest in anything other than vanilla sex, who though BJ's were "grosse" *prude alert* to a woman with a VERY VERY VERY high drive that LOVES to experiment and cannot get enough of my husband in any way I can have him. 

LD's I'm telling you, you are missing out! I know, trust me! 

Once that whole drive mismatch is taken care of, tensions lower and you no longer bicker as much, there isn't as much hurt feelings/feelings of neglect or under appreciation, your whole relationship can improve greatly!


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> But when she was servicing _herself_ she wasn't in the mood for sex, either!
> 
> Sometimes I have wanted an orgasm, but I didn't want to achieve it through _sex._.
> 
> So I guess what I'm asking is, why is it so 'wrong' to want an orgasm but not through partnered sex, even if you have a partner?


It's not that it's wrong. It's perfectly healthy to want to masterbate. For me the issue is when the masterbation happens after it's been a while since sex. I feel rejected and not good enough. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Saibasu said:


> When I first met my husband his drive was much higher than my own and his experience vastly outweighed mine. It was intimidating to be honest, but I fell hard and fast (no pun intended) for him. I was quite shy and more reserved sexually and the word "prude" had been used to describe me before. I honestly just accepted that I'm LD and my husband was HD and he would always be frustrated with me. But boyyyyy was I wrong. Once I learned some new tricks and felt reassured by my husband that he's crazy about me, I honestly WORKED HARD on raising my drive. We were so mismatched before, thinking back I can imagine how hard it must have been for him (again no pun intended). But his happiness was important to me. I went from a sexual noob who fumbled her way through it and felt like a fool doing so, to a confident lover who's pretty much his sex slave. Now ten years later we are both HD people and we are intimate pretty much daily (kids and life can interfere) and NOTHING (except other people) is out of bounds.
> 
> I firmly believe people can alter their drives AND their likes. Often either one or both of these things can cause marital or LTR turmoil. Look at me, I went from LD my whole adult life with zero interest in anything other than vanilla sex, who though BJ's were "grosse" *prude alert* to a woman with a VERY VERY VERY high drive that LOVES to experiment and cannot get enough of my husband in any way I can have him.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree with your post, probably because in many ways it does relate to my marriage. My W is somewhere in the "lower" drive, but more towards responsive desire (always ready and willing to go ... as long as I am the one making the effort to initiate). 

The interesting thing, my W will be the first one to acknowledge how much better our relationship is when we have an active sex life. It is clear she is happier, in a better mood, etc... So this begs the question, if she realizes this, why does she make very little effort to help maintain our sex life (i.e. it is just as likely we go a month or longer without sex as it is us having sex multiple times in a month)? I think in part, it requires work (i.e. between working long hours, raising a young family , etc...). Waiting for the "right time" is not the best approach, especially given our situation (her perception is that, "ok, maybe tomorrow it will work out", and then tomorrow comes and goes, rinse and repeat).

So this got me thinking, and I think this relates more to a couple where they are in an otherwise healthy relationship (aside from a drive mismatch). I actually saw another member here post something similar. I think between an HD person and LD person, there might be a different mindset. The HD person will look for reasons why they *should* have sex, whereas the LD person will look for reasons why they *shouldn't* have sex. So in the case of my W, she definitely likes the idea of having more frequent sex, but falls back frequently on the reasons why we can't at that point (i.e. kids, etc...). I am the opposite where I see the challenges we face managing work, family life, etc.. and instead look for ways to work around it (trying to schedule days off when the kids are in school. early morning sex, etc...).


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For me, if I go a long time without sex with my wife, the relationship starts to feel distant. We still do things together, but it feels like I'm hanging out with a friend, not a lover. I may enjoy doing things with her, but simply being in her company isn't particularly desirable anymore. I give her hugs and kisses, but its sort of mechanical - done because I feel it is part of a "romantic" relationship, but it doesn't mean much to me.

When sex is frequent, I find I want to spend time with her. I want to put my arms around her, want to see her smile. 






Vega said:


> And "addict" is the way a lot of LD's see the HD. Talk about "perception", lol!
> 
> In all honesty, even though I have had a bunch of orgasm through oral/PIV (late husband withstanding), I never, ever, EVER felt like if I didn't have sex/orgasms, I would absolutely perish...or just "die"...or be so "miserable" that I couldn't function or...."other" some depressing negative feeling that I would carry with me for who-knows-how-long.
> 
> ...


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

The problem is maybe one of perception:


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

Mollymolz said:


> It depends. Why do you chose to fly solo instead of have sex?
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Because my husband was a selfish lover who didn't care if I had an orgasm or not as long as he got his. And I didn't not have sex with him. I simply didn't want it or enjoy it. Most of the time it left me either sexually frustrated or else in pain. So it wasn't a question of flying solo vs having sex. It was a question of having sex for his pleasure and flying solo for my own.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> It requires less selfishness to have good sex with a partner because you consider their desires for a good experience that is.


Absolutely agree :smile2:



> Masturbation is purely self serving and no consideration is needed for another.


I also agree. In part. Masturbation *is* self-serving. However... *sex* can also be self-serving! 

Some HD's may approach their spouse for sex. The spouse isn't interested in sex. The HD (not all, but some) THEN ask, "Well, can I get a bj or a handjob instead?" The LD then thinks that (s)he JUST _wants the orgasm_! If (s)he just wants the orgasm, why can't (s) do it him/herself LIKE *I* JUST DID AN HOUR AGO?! The LD might give you that handjob/blowjob, and in many cases, (s)he is also going to feel used....which would cause the LD to become MORE LD. 



> I love orgasms but I love a lot of things about life.


The LD can also love orgasms. Just not as many. Too many and it becomes mundane. I understand that the HD typically thinks, "If you love sex, then why don't you want it MORE OFTEN?" The answer is an answer that *you've* all heard before. Too much (for the LD) and sex becomes routine. It loses it's 'specialness'. I absolutely LOVE sushi, but if I HAD to eat it every day, several times a day, it would quickly lose it's appeal. It would become boring. 



> I'm passionate and any partner wanting to pursue me knows it.
> 
> No deceit going in.
> 
> ...


The "regular" and "frequent" part is the off-putting part. It almost seems...unnatural. 

Badsanta wrote something a few weeks/months ago on another thread that got me thinking. He said something like (I'm paraphrasing here Badsanta, so don't shoot me yet, lol!) that he put his wife 'on notice' that he was going to want to ravage her the following day. But then he added that he wasn't even _aroused_ when he told her that! And, that once he told her that, he _became_ aroused. The first thing I thought was, "'Gee Badsanta. Can you actually schedule your horniness?!" :scratchhead: It just seemed _unnatural_. 

Maybe part of the problem is that perception of the LD is that the HD as "always horny", and would rather have the sexual experience NOT because the HD is horny...?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Nothing wrong with servicing yourself in addition to having sex with a partner.
> 
> I think the problem is when it seems that self-service is "replacing" sex with a partner. This gets to the tricky problem that *for some people an O is not what is desired, "sex" is what is desired*.


Having been and LD, I can absolutely see this to be true. The LD can have sex WITHOUT an orgasm and feel just as 'close' to his or her partner. But can the HD have sex with his or her partner WITHOUT orgasm as well?

To the (some) LD, the HD seems (we're talking about _perception_ here) to be almost on a 'manic' _quest_ for _*orgasms*_. They can't seem have sex WITHOUT them. Sex MUST lead to orgasms, otherwise it's not "really" sex. 

As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Vega said:


> Having been and LD, I can absolutely see this to be true. The LD can have sex WITHOUT an orgasm and feel just as 'close' to his or her partner. But can the HD have sex with his or her partner WITHOUT orgasm as well?
> 
> To the (some) LD, the HD seems (we're talking about _perception_ here) to be almost on a 'manic' _quest_ for _*orgasms*_. They can't seem have sex WITHOUT them. Sex MUST lead to orgasms, otherwise it's not "really" sex.
> 
> *As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?*


Maybe, sometimes she may fake . 

On rare occasions I've had sex and not orgasm-ed. Generally that would be on the rare round 2. I can't really think of a 1 round session where I didn't, why bother? But I'm not a delayed ejaculator, it doesn't take all that long so again - why bother? If I was and it was going to take some huge time and effort commitment I'd be fine with not from time to time. 

On the other hand, there may be several non-naked interactions a day that result in arousal and no orgasm for me - take that into account in your score card :smile2: When these are >90% of your 'sex life' should it be a surprise when the clothes finally come off and there is a 'manic quest' >


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> Absolutely agree :smile2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely very different mindsets working here. I actually never ask for a standalone hand job or BJ.

I never have sex without giving pleasure, orgasms, as well as receiving.

Sexuality is overwhelmingly mental. So I can absolutely determine if I get worked up or not.

Mrs. Conan changed her thought process and became sexually more aggressive, curious, higher drive, etc.

Everyone trains there thoughts whether they realize it or not.

I'm also skilled at seduction. I can get Mrs. Conan hotter than a stovetop a number of ways so that she might not be aroused when I start but after some form of seduction is going on for a while, she will grab me and initiate.

But like I have said in another post, I don't believe in hardwired sexual behavior. The more you think about and practice anything, the better you get at it. Sex builds in desire as well.

I read everyday. I never get tired of it. Same with sex.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

anonmd said:


> Maybe, sometimes she may fake .
> 
> On rare occasions I've had sex and not orgasm-ed. Generally that would be on the rare round 2. I can't really think of a 1 round session where I didn't, why bother? But I'm not a delayed ejaculator, it doesn't take all that long so again - why bother? If I was and it was going to take some huge time and effort commitment I'd be fine with not from time to time.
> 
> On the other hand, there may be several non-naked interactions a day that result in arousal and no orgasm for me - take that into account in your score card :smile2: When these are >90% of your 'sex life' should it be a surprise when the clothes finally come off and there is a 'manic quest' >


Faking? Well...in all honesty.. BTDT. 

But I'm not talking about faking. I'm talking about the whole physical/psychological 'act' of sex without the goal of an orgasm. Like you've said, "Why bother?" 

Because to a number of LD's, sex isn't about orgasm. 

My late husband and I had a conversation one time. He said that orgasm wasn't the "goal" but the "result". 

I then asked him, "Why don't you stop short of the "result"?" 

He had no answer. 

The "result" signaled the 'end of sex' for him, no matter how *I* felt...

Can you have sex with your spouse short of the orgasm?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Definitely very different mindsets working here. I actually never ask for a standalone hand job or BJ.
> 
> I never have sex without giving pleasure, orgasms, as well as receiving.
> 
> ...


I agree that desire can change. One can 'up' their libido.

But can one 'DOWN' their libido?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> I agree that desire can change. One can 'up' their libido.
> 
> But can one 'DOWN' their libido?


Absolutely!

I think everyone probably has a working range that they are currently in.

My high range is several times a day but I can lower that right down to around 2 or 3x a month.

All it takes is me redirecting my thoughts towards other interests and wala!, far lower drive.

Now if I had to, I could lower it even more but it would take work and discipline.

I also think it would not be healthy to lower it past 2-3x a month.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

If sex without orgasm is good for you why don't you do it anytime a partner wants? 

If the HD wants it every day, NEVER gets that, mostly gets it once or twice a month - 6.7% 'success rate' - LOL, don't expect him or her to be happy with a non-completion. 

If it makes you feel better to deprive your partner of an easily achievable orgasm you could discuss that. I might go along with brief daily no completion sex for 80% of the encounters for instance. But hardly any sex with even fewer orgasms is not going to fly...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I'm also skilled at seduction. I can get Mrs. Conan hotter than a stovetop a number of ways so that she might not be aroused when I start but after some form of seduction is going on for a while, she will grab me and initiate.


Have mercy Conan, I am hot & bothered just from reading this post >












Vega said:


> I agree that desire can change. One can 'up' their libido.
> 
> But can one 'DOWN' their libido?





ConanHub said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> I think everyone probably has a working range that they are currently in.
> 
> ...


I agree with Conan here. Redirecting thoughts/energy is an "easy" way to down the libido.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Vega said:


> Can you have sex with your spouse short of the orgasm?


If neither of us has orgasm? No, not enjoyable for me. 

To me, that is not sex. That is sharing affection. Sharing affection is, to me, different than sex. I am happy to share affection without sex. I gave back rubs and foot rubs often. I take great pleasure in doing so. No orgasms involved. She rarely reciprocates. And it has been decades since it ever lead to sex. So there is no implication when I offer to give her a foot rub that it is a veiled attempt on my part to get her to have sex with me.

But if she started touching my penis and it felt nice and then she stopped prior to my orgasm? To me that would be teasing and cruel and unpleasant. Now, if she did that right before we went out for date night, and we had a wonderful time together, and then we made mad passionate love when we got home, well in that case the touching and teasing prior to the date would be welcome and enjoyable. A taste of things to come, so to speak. But if she touched me and got me hard and then stopped and we didn't have sex for several weeks? No, not fun or enjoyable or welcome in any way.



> can one DOWN their libido?


Yes. I can and did. Could I turn it down without having it impact (negatively) my feelings toward my partner? No.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> I think everyone probably has a working range that they are currently in.
> 
> ...


And here is where the LD dilemma is also. Why is there a "range"? Why isn't sex more 'fluid' instead of a "constant'?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

anonmd said:


> If sex without orgasm is good for you why don't you do it anytime a partner wants?


Because MOST of the time, the partner WANTS the orgasm! The LD feels "used" for the orgasm.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Holdingontoit said:


> If neither of us has orgasm? No, not enjoyable for me.
> 
> To me, that is not sex. That is sharing affection. Sharing affection is, to me, different than sex. I am happy to share affection without sex. I gave back rubs and foot rubs often. I take great pleasure in doing so. No orgasms involved. She rarely reciprocates. And it has been decades since it ever lead to sex. So there is no implication when I offer to give her a foot rub that it is a veiled attempt on my part to get her to have sex with me.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from. 

But can YOU see where the LD might be coming from?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Vega said:


> Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from.
> 
> But can YOU see where the LD might be coming from?


Yes, which is why these days I suggest couples who can't resolve the mismatch within 3 to 6 months save each other much future pain and break up sooner rather than later.

This is not about right or wrong. Both are right for themselves. Both are wrong for the other. The sooner they split, the sooner each / both can find someone more suitable. Hence Hold's Two Rules.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If I was a therapist, I'd assign my HD/LD patients the following homework:

1. The HD patient needs to eat their favorite food to the point where they are totally nauseated - repeatedly
2. The LD patient needs to go to bed hungry every night for a week knowing their partner is well fed

This - lack of comprehension - of how the other feels - is largely a lack of making a good faith effort to do so.





Vega said:


> Absolutely agree :smile2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

MEM2020 said:


> 1. The HD patient needs to eat their favorite food to the point where they are totally nauseated - repeatedly
> .


I have been eating some of the same food every day for decades, challenge accepted >


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I have been eating some of the same food every day for decades


I've had pretty much the exact same thing for lunch almost every work day for the last 30 years or so.

Top that!


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> As an LD (Low Drive/Desire) or HD (High Drive/Desire) person, do you find that your SO (or maybe people in general) have a certain perception about you that may not be accurate?


Perception can be dangerous because people can often by incorrect in their perception about anyone. Remember the old cliché, "perception is reality?" Well it's true!

When I have gone out in public with my wife she will put on an act and take me by the hand as she walks with me down the street. She will even have the audacity to call me "honey" in front of people. Yet, when she is at home she can be the most autocratic, cold unloving woman you would every want to meet.

Now say people see me with a frown on my face as my petite wife walks with me hand in hand down the street. They could very well think I was some lug not wanting to me with his wife, when in reality she's the cold one who is withholding love and sex.


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## Saibasu (Nov 3, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> I definitely agree with your post, probably because in many ways it does relate to my marriage. My W is somewhere in the "lower" drive, but more towards responsive desire (always ready and willing to go ... as long as I am the one making the effort to initiate).
> 
> The interesting thing, my W will be the first one to acknowledge how much better our relationship is when we have an active sex life. It is clear she is happier, in a better mood, etc... So this begs the question, if she realizes this, why does she make very little effort to help maintain our sex life (i.e. it is just as likely we go a month or longer without sex as it is us having sex multiple times in a month)? I think in part, it requires work (i.e. between working long hours, raising a young family , etc...). Waiting for the "right time" is not the best approach, especially given our situation (her perception is that, "ok, maybe tomorrow it will work out", and then tomorrow comes and goes, rinse and repeat).
> 
> So this got me thinking, and I think this relates more to a couple where they are in an otherwise healthy relationship (aside from a drive mismatch). I actually saw another member here post something similar. I think between an HD person and LD person, there might be a different mindset. The HD person will look for reasons why they *should* have sex, whereas the LD person will look for reasons why they *shouldn't* have sex. So in the case of my W, she definitely likes the idea of having more frequent sex, but falls back frequently on the reasons why we can't at that point (i.e. kids, etc...). I am the opposite where I see the challenges we face managing work, family life, etc.. and instead look for ways to work around it (trying to schedule days off when the kids are in school. early morning sex, etc...).


I definitely think LD people see obstacles in finding time for sex, where as everything needs to happen just so in order for it to just occur. But that's just not likely with a full family in tow. For us there is work, a 7 year old, a 1 year old, and I'm a university student as well, not to mention taking care of our home, helping daughter with homework, and the fact that our sons crib is in OUR room. But you know what? We STILL have sex, or oral or whatever at a minimum of 4-5 times a week. Just as our kids, and school, and home, and work are priorities, for us so is sex. With our baby in our room it's been a little more challenging for some of our more expressive acts, but we make it work. There are PLENTY of other places to have some fun  hell we are buying a pull out couch JUST for sex until we get the money together to renovate our sons drafty room. We shall not be stopped haha! 

But in all seriousness, it's easy to come up with excuses not to have sex. Life is crazy. But dealing with the marital consequences of unfulfilled needs over the long-term will NOT be so easy to rectify. People are creatures of habit, if you get into the habit of not having sex, it will be harder to motivate yourself later when sh#t hits the fan. Yah know?

Everyone can find time to have some sex in there life. If you can find an hour a day for cleaning or social media or browsing or favorite TV shows or movies... Blah blah blah, then I find it hard to believe people can't find time for sex too! 

I don't know how you guys and gals do it, gives me lady blue balls just thinking about it. *Shivers* 

I've cried Wolf to my parent saying I really need to do some shopping and just want to go without kids fighting for things then just stay home and have an hour or longer session. 

By any means necessary right?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vega said:


> And here is where the LD dilemma is also. Why is there a "range"? Why isn't sex more 'fluid' instead of a "constant'?


Sex is fluid. I'm giving average numbers that give a limited understanding of my reality.

Besides all that, I get a funny read on you.

You are hiding behind the LD label to maybe justify your feelings.

You don't have to do that. Your feelings are important and have little if nothing to do with a LD label.

You were not treated in a compassionate or considerate manner and, I believe, you justifiably feel disrespected and unloved.

I don't believe it is directly related to HD and LD issues.

I know for certain that a woman, regardless of current drive level, that is genuinely, selflessly loved and cherished, will be far more open and comfortable for approach for sex.

Add a skillful and seductive lover to the previous mix and you have a man that you probably won't be LD with.

Maybe not a classification of HD, but I doubt you would even consider yourself LD with him.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> I have been eating some of the same food every day for decades, challenge accepted >


69, reverse cowgirl, missionary, doggie, umpteen oral combinations, toys, role play, etc...

Food can have different ingredients and recipes just like sex.

Same thing over and over my ass.

Learning to "cook" those "recipes" is definitely fun.:grin2:


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Sex is fluid. I'm giving average numbers that give a limited understanding of my reality.
> 
> Besides all that, I get a funny read on you.
> 
> ...


Right now, I'm ND (*N*o Drive). The last orgasm I had was a few weeks ago. Before that was several months ago. I'm not interested in having sex right now, nor do I want an intimate relationship right now. 

In all honesty, I don't consider myself LD OR HD. My "drive" is situational. It's not consistent. Some relationships I've been HD in the beginning and LD toward end. Some I started out at LD and became HD...to become LD to become HD again. 

But the difference between *me* and other HD's seems to be about the _orgasm_. I could want my partner's hands on me daily, several times a day, yet only 'crave' an orgasm occasionally. If I was with a partner and we _couldn't_ have sex for the rest of our lives, _I could still be happy with him_, provided there was plenty of _affection and respect for each other_ both in bed and out. Hugging, kissing, spooning, caressing, holding, stroking, whether naked or fully clothed. I don't need the orgasm in order to feel passion or immensely close and intimate with a partner. Heck, I could 'bond' with my partner over a game of Parcheesi (played in the buff! :grin2 just as easily as I could 'bond' with him during a roll in the hay. And I want a partner who wants the same thing. One who doesn't constantly focus on the (especially his own) orgasm as the goal of lovemaking. It may be difficult for me to find, but...

I've learned a lot from TAM since I've been here. What I've learned most of all is two things:

#1. I have been settling in my life because I didn't realize that I was "allowed" to want certain things from my relationships. Now I know better AND, 

#2. I will no longer settle. 

And if that means that I'll be single for the rest of my life, never having sex again, I'm o.k. with that. I would rather be that way then to be in a bad relationship with a man who has NO CLUE about how to play Parcheesi!:grin2:


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

My wife feels frustrated if she gets aroused without having an orgasm, so if we start I pretty much always make sure she has one - we use vibrators as part of our play so it pretty much always works. 

I have many times offered to do things for her with nothing in return. She has only taken me up on it a couple of times. 

I don't see the point of not having an orgasm though - it just seems like a normal and very nice way end active intimacy and switch to cuddling. 



Vega said:


> snip
> 
> As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

uhtred said:


> I don't see the point of not having an orgasm though - .


How about the emotional closeness that sex provides? 

As a woman, I can have sex without having an orgasm and feel _just as satisfied_ and just as close to my partner. After all, women do this all the time. 

But most men don't. 

Let me ask you a question, just out of curiosity. If you caught your wife in bed with another man and your wife said, "But neither one of us had orgasms so it really wasn't sex!", and you somehow knew it to be TRUE that they didn't, would you BUY that it wasn't really "sex"?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Vega said:


> How about the emotional closeness that sex provides?
> 
> As a woman, I can have sex without having an orgasm and feel _just as satisfied_ and just as close to my partner. After all, women do this all the time.
> 
> But most men don't.


I can and do have sex without an orgasm often and still love every minute of it. I/we also have lots of cuddling, touching, kissing, etc. None of that has to lead to sex and most times doesn't but sometimes does.

I have met men in my life who aren't so hung up on orgasms, thankfully. I mean, I actually love it when my partner O's, but I love the whole act and the intimacy more....and at our age, sometimes O's just kind of get lost in the shuffle. It gets picked up next time, or whatever, no worries. There's no stress about it, they either happen or not but the sex is always good regardless....because it is passionate, fun, exciting, intimate, and oh so yummy!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I can and do have sex without an orgasm often and still love every minute of it. I/we also have lots of cuddling, touching, kissing, etc. None of that has to lead to sex and most times doesn't but sometimes does.
> 
> I have met men in my life who aren't so hung up on orgasms, thankfully. I mean, I actually love it when my partner O's, but I love the whole act and the intimacy more....and at our age, sometimes O's just kind of get lost in the shuffle. It gets picked up next time, or whatever, no worries. There's no stress about it, they either happen or not but the sex is always good regardless....because it is passionate, fun, exciting, intimate, and oh so yummy!



yyyyyyYYYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSS! 

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! Focus. Not. Always. On. Orgasms! 

Heck, I can give *myself* an orgasm almost anytime I want one. And I DO enjoy it when my partner O's. But for me, it's not the 'goal' of sex. To me, the goal of sex is _intimacy_. 

If my partner can _ONLY_ feel intimacy with me during that 3 second orgasm, and not again until his next orgasm, he's NOT the partner for me! 

Thanks again, FW. You ROCK! Whoot! Whoot! Whoot! :smthumbup:


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I think orgasms are ~50% of sex, personally. When one orgasms, there's a rush of endorphins and other chemicals that increase bonding and provide euphoric feelings, and other sciency hoopla.

That said, I've had sex with my wife before in which I did not orgasm, and it was mutually satisfying. It is still a goal, however - for both of us. However it does not severely impact the level of emotional closeness either one of us achieves if it doesn't happen. I am actually not sure she's ever had sex with me and not orgasmed, though, so she might not be a good example for this. She's one of those lucky (?) women who achieves orgasm quickly and easily and with little effort. It has little, if anything, to do with me.

What I see here, like it or not, are _women_ who view the orgasm as not being the goal. Most, if not all, women have had partners, or at least encounters, in which orgasm appears to be, or outright IS, the goal - for him. Sex for the sake of sex. Women typically want more (not 100% of the time, of course).

Ideally, one would want both. In reality, it's not so, I don't think. If a woman could only choose intimacy OR orgasm, many (most?) would choose intimacy. Men? Orgasm.

That doesn't mean either sex doesn't _want_ both.

Regardless, my point was that many, if not all women have experienced a male partner who seems only focused on orgasm, with minimal (or no) attention to intimacy. Not all men have experienced the same in reverse - a female partner who only wants to get off, our satisfaction be damned. If that happened to me regularly, I, too, would probably feel the same way.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Interesting. 
Both my wife and I consider an O to be a normal part of sex. On the rare occasions where she doesn't get one, she feels frustrated. On the more common occasions where I don't, I'm left a little frustrated. I find being very aroused but not getting an orgasm to be unpleasant - so I have to go take care of myself later. 

Arousal must be different for you if you can get sexually aroused but not want an O. 

Cheating is cheating whether or not someone O's, but then I'm one of the people who considers an O to be a natural part of sex, not really optional. 






Vega said:


> How about the emotional closeness that sex provides?
> 
> As a woman, I can have sex without having an orgasm and feel _just as satisfied_ and just as close to my partner. After all, women do this all the time.
> 
> ...


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Vega said:


> Having been and LD, I can absolutely see this to be true. The LD can have sex WITHOUT an orgasm and feel just as 'close' to his or her partner. * But can the HD have sex with his or her partner WITHOUT orgasm as well?
> *
> To the (some) LD, the HD seems (we're talking about _perception_ here) to be almost on a 'manic' _quest_ for _*orgasms*_. They can't seem have sex WITHOUT them. Sex MUST lead to orgasms, otherwise it's not "really" sex.
> 
> As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?


YES, WE CAN!

My partner and I are both HD. Sometimes I don't orgasm from sex, but I still LOVE the sex. That doesn't happen much with my current partner, I will admit, because he takes a lot of pleasure in making sure that I have not just one, but multiple orgasms. Even if he isn't feeling horny but I am, he will spend sometimes an hour or more on me, just to make sure that I am satisfied.

My partner can't orgasm during sex--or, at least, it is very rare, and it hasn't happened with me yet (we've only been together about 10 months). He's come close a few times, and he's hopeful that it will happen with me eventually. I know he wants it to happen, and I would like that as well, but I don't put any pressure on him to get there. If he wants to orgasm, he has to finish himself off--but I'm always involved in some way. Usually he does a cuddling/masturbation combo, but sometimes I just watch him, or he'll ask that we mutually masturbate, but whatever it is, he wants me there with him, so it's still a shared experience. 

This would upset a lot of women. In fact, he says that I handle this reality far better than anyone else he's ever been with. Despite the unusual nature of our sex life, we are both very happy with our sex life, and we get it on as much as possible.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Vega said:


> yyyyyyYYYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSS!
> 
> Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! Focus. Not. Always. On. Orgasms!
> 
> ...


Try flipping this on its head for a second.

What if it's not your partner's orgasm that makes him feel close to you?

What if the reason a partner feels intimate with you in that moment is instead because you are the one _giving_ him the orgasm?

If I just want an orgasm, and that's all I'm after, I can play with myself. But I prefer that it be with my partner, because that fact that he is focused on me and is giving of himself to me, and because in that moment, I am laying myself bare and vulnerable in such a raw state, and he takes that as a gift of myself to him, and treats it with the tenderness (or sometimes roughness!), attention, and care that it deserves.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Like others here have stated, it is possible to have sex and completely enjoy it without orgasm. That being said, I would guess if that became frequent (no orgasm) the sex would become less desirable, nothing wrong with that as the O still does play a very important role.
@FeministInPink hits an important point as well. Giving (or receiving) an orgasm with your partner takes it to another level versus taking care of yourself (I am sure this doesn't apply to everyone, but I share the same sentiments as FIP). 

Falling back on the "feeling used solely for an orgasm" helps shift the focus IMO to the partner. If you tell yourself that you are nothing more than an object to your partner, it is easy to deflect and make it their problem (in some cases, I am sure this is in fact accurate, so not completely dismissing). However, in the instance where you are not responsive to your partner and can't fall back on the "I am just an object to him/her" view, then I think it forces you to have to look at yourself and maybe ask yourself some uncomfortable questions (i.e. why am I not into him/her, etc...).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LOL!

Some interesting processes going on out there.

My wife and I enjoy many levels and forms of intimacy.

It isn't an either or when it comes to orgasms.

Sex always includes at least one for her and me, sometimes more.

We always take our time and enjoy because our kids are gone.

We don't like Parcheesi but word games.😁


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> Because MOST of the time, the partner WANTS the orgasm! The LD feels "used" for the orgasm.


A lot of us really want the orgasm from sex with our partners, but we also want tjenro enjoy sex. It's like sharing your passions with your partner. My husband loves watches. He tells me all about them. He wants me to be interested in them as he is. I'm not but I listen and engage in the conversation. Relationship are give and take. Sex too, is also sometimes give and take. At the end of the it is somewhat that I as an HD want to share with my husband, not something that I want to force from him. That takes the joy away from it

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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> How about the emotional closeness that sex provides?
> 
> As a woman, I can have sex without having an orgasm and feel _just as satisfied_ and just as close to my partner. After all, women do this all the time.
> 
> ...


I dunno, I'm also a woman and of I don't orgasm juring sex I'm not happy about it. I don't care how I get it. If he let's go too soon I'm quite happy to finish myself off. Emotional closeness and a great end to sex. 

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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Interesting.
> Both my wife and I consider an O to be a normal part of sex. On the rare occasions where she doesn't get one, she feels frustrated. On the more common occasions where I don't, I'm left a little frustrated. I find being very aroused but not getting an orgasm to be unpleasant - so I have to go take care of myself later.
> 
> Arousal must be different for you if you can get sexually aroused but not want an O.
> ...


Yup, getting aroused without orgasm is uncomfortable. It makes me very agitated. 

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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> YES, WE CAN!
> 
> My partner and I are both HD. Sometimes I don't orgasm from sex, but I still LOVE the sex. That doesn't happen much with my current partner, I will admit, because he takes a lot of pleasure in making sure that I have not just one, but multiple orgasms. Even if he isn't feeling horny but I am, he will spend sometimes an hour or more on me, just to make sure that I am satisfied.
> 
> ...


That's awsome that you're so ok with it. There are so many different variation of sex and you guys have your own. 

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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Try flipping this on its head for a second.
> 
> What if it's not your partner's orgasm that makes him feel close to you?
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said that better. Masterbation and self love are great but the achievements of orgasm though that vs. sex is totally different. It's my husband making me feel good and vise versa that makes sex so great. Why not enjoy the orgasm at the end. I love watching my spouse O because it's something only I get to see. It's a piece of him that is all mine. 

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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I wonder if this is related to the LD/HD issue. Maybe people experience orgasms differently? Some people seem to think sex without an O is frustrating, others don't. Maybe the build-up feels different?

One way to put it: To me, sex without orgasm is like listening to a great piece of music, which is cut off just before the end - left on a hanging note. Its not that the previous music wasn't good, but missing the end leaves you feeling like something important isn't there.



Mollymolz said:


> I dunno, I'm also a woman and of I don't orgasm juring sex I'm not happy about it. I don't care how I get it. If he let's go too soon I'm quite happy to finish myself off. Emotional closeness and a great end to sex.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

uhtred said:


> I wonder if this is related to the LD/HD issue. Maybe people experience orgasms differently? Some people seem to think sex without an O is frustrating, others don't. Maybe the build-up feels different?
> 
> One way to put it: To me, sex without orgasm is like listening to a great piece of music, which is cut off just before the end - left on a hanging note. Its not that the previous music wasn't good, but missing the end leaves you feeling like something important isn't there.


That's exactly it. Something is missing, and for me that something gnaws at me like a word I can't remember. My husband is LD, but still I think he'd be unhappy if sex didn't result in an orgasm, or at least a little confused. 

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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Vega said:


> Having been and LD, I can absolutely see this to be true. The LD can have sex WITHOUT an orgasm and feel just as 'close' to his or her partner. But can the HD have sex with his or her partner WITHOUT orgasm as well?


Of course they can, it's not like such things have never happened.



Vega said:


> To the (some) LD, the HD seems (we're talking about _perception_ here) to be almost on a 'manic' _quest_ for _*orgasms*_. They can't seem have sex WITHOUT them. Sex MUST lead to orgasms, otherwise it's not "really" sex.


Except for your musings here, I've never heard of the silly idea that sex doesn't qualify as sex, absent having an orgasm.



Vega said:


> As an HD, have you ever had sex with your partner WITHOUT an orgasm for either of you?


I've had sex with a few womens, without either of us reaching orgasm.

Sometimes things happens that require you to stop. Like someone interrupts you, or something else happens that needs your immediate attention.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Vega said:


> As a woman, I can have sex without having an orgasm and feel _just as satisfied_ and just as close to my partner. After all, women do this all the time.
> 
> But most men don't.


Actually women as a monolithic collective, don't do this all of the time. Of course some may do this all of the time or some of the time, yet it is a misnomer to claim that your experience is universal.

Your claim regarding men is equally flawed.

Funnily enough you're not like any woman I have ever shared sex with. In my experience, most of the time when a woman hasn't had an orgasm (especially when one has been close) while having sex, she often feels disappointed and or somewhat frustrated by the experience.

None of my sexual partners have ever expressed equal satisfaction on the occasions they don't get to have an orgasm, in fact the norm has been for them to admit disappointment when it happens.

For example my wife and I are fine with not getting an orgasm, if we have had to stop having sex because someone turns up at our door. Cause you know, other things...

Whereas at other times without interruption, my wife and I can be very frustrated when we don't orgasm during sex, especially when either of us are particularly close to having an orgasm.

I also sometimes edge, while having penetrative sex with my wife. So that I can ensure I can sustain the right stimulation for her to usually orgasm through penetration, and so that she can sometimes have more orgasms before I do.

Yet there have been times when I have done this, to the point that I lose it. As in I still have an erection, yet I can't tip over to orgasm, because I have become over stimulated. So when that happens she gets an orgasm, while to my frustration I don't.

Likewise I have also sometimes done the same thing to my wife, where I get her close to orgasm, then back off, then work her up again and then back off and maybe do it again before working her to a finish. Yet there have been some occasions doing that, when she has frustratingly lost that approaching orgasm through overstimulation as well.

Then there are the rare occasions when she or I alternately just haven't get there at all for a myriad of reasons. When that happens and we've been very close, we both find that particularly frustrating. Whereas when we haven't been that close, we haven't minded at all.

Orgasm or otherwise my wife and I both enjoy the sex we share. That said on the very rare occasion through close to 21 years of sharing sex, that the sex has been flat, we've both had no problem telling each other it was lame.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Personal said:


> Actually women as a monolithic collective, don't do this all of the time. Of course some may do this all of the time or some of the time, yet it is a misnomer to claim that your experience is universal.
> 
> Your claim regarding men is equally flawed.
> 
> ...


You make a good point. I truely believe most women like orgasms too and are disappointed when they don't get them. If a woman can achieve them every time she masterbates then there is no reason she cannot achieve them just as reliably through sex. That is, unless she has a selfish partner. I'd be moving on at that point though. 

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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In an interesting twist, my wife gets unhappy if *I* don't get an O. When we do have sex she feels like things have gone wrong if she doesn't get me off.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

uhtred said:


> I wonder if this is related to the LD/HD issue. Maybe people experience orgasms differently? Some people seem to think sex without an O is frustrating, others don't. Maybe the build-up feels different?
> 
> *One way to put it: To me, sex without orgasm is like listening to a great piece of music, which is cut off just before the end - left on a hanging note. Its not that the previous music wasn't good, but missing the end leaves you feeling like something important isn't there*.


I feel this way, but at the same time.. there is "satisfaction" he got his.. I love giving too...I know another romp is just around the corner... I rarely miss my O.. if I was especially "randy" and he slipped before me....I've gotten aggressive (but in a playful manner) saying .... "NO NO NO ..da** it - I needed that [email protected]#" .. then tell him he's going to do it again... 

I consider myself very sexual, there is no subject more fascinating, exciting, or passionate I am about.... Physical touch, amorous anything makes me feel alive / fulfilled like nothing else.. my dopamine of choice.... but I need the emotional component, feeling deeply loved/ cared for with the strings of commitment, trust, exclusivity... I very much dislike the fact many would assume such a woman is not very sexual, or a prude if she doesn't put out early in a relationship.. as difficult as it may be to restrain our hormones... I find great value in taking it slow when getting to know someone... that's just how I am wired. When I sleep with a man.. I expect an "after glow". lying in his arms, that he's MY MAN and I am his.. nothing less would satisfy my soul.. if I could put it this way.. 

My husband is introverted, on the quiet side, not your average Testosterone fueled Stud type of male...he once said to me His "touch" should be worth a thousand words.. I'll never forget that comment as it's true... he's not a sex addict but sure loves the act... would never turn it down unless he's too tired. Like me... he ties his intimacy with his emotions, it's never just "getting off" to him, it's so much more.. 

It's hard to box people, we may be surprised what goes on behind closed doors.....it's so much about the chemistry between a given couple... my drive has lessened in the past few years, that antsy "Gotta have it NOW and can't get enough" is gone... I kinda miss it !! .... though still one thing has remained... I crave our intimacy, getting caught up in each other.. this never gets old...it's emotionally fulfilling as much as deeply pleasurable...


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I was thinking about this yesterday, and a brief conversation I had with my W last night fit in perfectly, so I thought it would be a good topic for conversation.
> 
> As an LD (Low Drive/Desire) or HD (High Drive/Desire) person, do you find that your SO (or maybe people in general) have a certain perception about you that may not be accurate?
> 
> ...




I am HD adventurous 
Mrs.CuddleBug is LD conservative

I could have sex every day, sometimes multiple times
She could have sex 1x month and is happy and clueless

I used to initiative but having sex 1x week was almost too much for her, so I stopped initiating altogether.

When she initiates, her usual 1x month, I am not in the mood, nope, no thanks.

1x week or more to Mrs.CuddleBug, in her mind, all I want is sex sex sex. Yet the average for a healthy sex drive is 3x week or more.

I just use my sex toy when I get really in the mood and no longer pester Mrs.CuddleBug for intimacy. She has her almost sexless marriage, eats chips, watches tv, on her laptop, talks with her sister and parents and reads.

She also knows her weight is a serious issue, meaning she can loose 80+ lbs and she is getting bigger. She knows she needs to do something but never gets around to it.......that type of woman.

Yet today, the ladies are taking care of themselves and are just as sexual as the men. I guess I wasn't as fortunate....


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

CuddleBug said:


> I am HD adventurous
> Mrs.CuddleBug is LD conservative
> 
> I could have sex every day, sometimes multiple times
> ...


That's how I feel except my husband isn't overweight. He does not take care of himself though. He has a job that involves him sitting around. I go for walks. I'm no fitness buff by any means, but I make an attempt. I get tired of initiating too because it isn't well recieved. I try not to pressure him. If he says he's tired, not feeling well, etc., I don't even try. It's too bad he feels like that regularly. What burns me up is that he seems content to masterbate a few times a week. Why not come to me when he knows I'm willing and waiting? Sometimes I don't feel like being faithful, even though I am 100% because it feels like he's happier expending his 'energy' somewhere else. I crave sex. It makes me feel wanted and loved if it is with my SO. 

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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Mollymolz said:


> That's how I feel except my husband isn't overweight. He does not take care of himself though. He has a job that involves him sitting around. I go for walks. I'm no fitness buff by any means, but I make an attempt. I get tired of initiating too because it isn't well recieved. I try not to pressure him. If he says he's tired, not feeling well, etc., I don't even try. It's too bad he feels like that regularly. What burns me up is that he seems content to masterbate a few times a week. Why not come to me when he knows I'm willing and waiting? Sometimes I don't feel like being faithful, even though I am 100% because it feels like he's happier expending his 'energy' somewhere else. I crave sex. It makes me feel wanted and loved if it is with my SO.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk




Heh. My wife and your hubby should get together. You and I should do the same.:grin2:


We are in sexual mismatch marriages, which is all too common.

A woman that's in great shape and has a high sex drive, can't get sex from her hubby? Wow.

If I had a woman that was in great shape with a high adventurous sex drive, I would be the happiest guy out there. Result for her would be random flowers in the bathroom before she gets up for work, surprise dinners, lots of cuddling on the couch, going for walks, out to dinner and a movie, etc, etc., etc. It would just flow and happen because my man needs are being met.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

CuddleBug said:


> Heh. My wife and your hubby should get together. You and I should do the same.:grin2:
> 
> 
> We are in sexual mismatch marriages, which is all too common.
> ...


I wouldn't say I'm in great shape lol. I like cookies too much. Why is it that people with high sex drives wind up with low drive spouses. It seems very unfair. 

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## 1lonelyguy (Oct 5, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> I wouldn't say I'm in great shape lol. I like cookies too much. Why is it that people with high sex drives wind up with low drive spouses. It seems very unfair.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


That is a great question! And there seems to be no way of knowing in advance what anyone is really like because LD's seem to either intentionally or unintentionally hide things so well before marriage. My wife and I were constantly physically touching before marriage. Hugging, holding hands, kissing. We would spend several hours every night being intimate: cuddling, making out, etc... Now I'm lucky to get an hour of sexual intimacy a month.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

1lonelyguy said:


> That is a great question! And there seems to be no way of knowing in advance what anyone is really like because LD's seem to either intentionally or unintentionally hide things so well before marriage. My wife and I were constantly physically touching before marriage. Hugging, holding hands, kissing. We would spend several hours every night being intimate: cuddling, making out, etc... Now I'm lucky to get an hour of sexual intimacy a month.


Maybe LD's enjoy the honeymoon phase. That's just it though. It's a phase and it leaves us HD's high and dry. It's disappointing to say the least. I find I start pulling away emotionally when sex isn't happening. I feel like I live with a roommate. It's funny because my husband says the same thing, yet never attempts to up the sex. It leaves me taking the lack of sex very personally. 

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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

1lonelyguy said:


> That is a great question! And there seems to be no way of knowing in advance what anyone is really like because LD's seem to either intentionally or unintentionally hide things so well before marriage. My wife and I were constantly physically touching before marriage. Hugging, holding hands, kissing. We would spend several hours every night being intimate: cuddling, making out, etc... Now I'm lucky to get an hour of sexual intimacy a month.


I think part of the issue, the LD doesn't quite have the drive. If there are minimal distractions this is something that is a little easier to work with. However, add on a bunch of distractions and stress (raising a family, work, finances, etc...) and the thing that has a minimal drive for now becomes that much more less important.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> I am HD adventurous
> Mrs.CuddleBug is LD conservative
> 
> I could have sex every day, sometimes multiple times
> ...


Per the bolded, been there. I get to the point where honestly I rather not have sex then just have sex that 1 time to then not doing anything for a prolonged period.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

EllisRedding said:


> I think part of the issue, the LD doesn't quite have the drive. If there are minimal distractions this is something that is a little easier to work with. However, add on a bunch of distractions and stress (raising a family, work, finances, etc...) and the thing that has a minimal drive for now becomes that much more less important.


And in my opinion this is where it becomes necessary to make it a priority. It's an important aspect of marriage. 

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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Per the bolded, been there. I get to the point where honestly I rather not have sex then just have sex that 1 time to then not doing anything for a prolonged period.



I hear yah and that's why I bought my sex toy instead of going out to meet ladies who want only friends with benefits........


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Mollymolz said:


> I wouldn't say I'm in great shape lol. I like cookies too much. Why is it that people with high sex drives wind up with low drive spouses. It seems very unfair.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk




See, I was skinny with thick coke bottle glasses. Not women bait at all.:grin2:

Then I made the choice to weight train and got laser eye surgery. I went from ~175 lbs to 230+ lbs ish.

My vision is close to 20 / 20.

Mrs.CuddleBug was a bigger girl back then, probably the same weight as myself at the time. Today, we are about the same. I am 6 ft 2 and she is 5ft 9.

All you have to do, is go to a local gym, weights and cardio, meet new people, get help from a trainer with goals, buys their supplements and change your diet accordingly. The weight will come off and you will feel better about yourself, be in good shape, dress sexier, etc. But doing nothing, eating cookies, we'll, fate is what you make and you get what you put into the relationship.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

CuddleBug said:


> See, I was skinny with thick coke bottle glasses. Not women bait at all.:grin2:
> 
> Then I made the choice to weight train and got laser eye surgery. I went from ~175 lbs to 230+ lbs ish.
> 
> ...


Is your wife's self esteem shot because of her weight or was she always LD? I could see how gaining a lot of weight would make it difficult to want to have sex a). due to self esteem and b). because of the energy it takes. I love cookies but they aren't the only food I eat and getting out walking my puppies helps a bit. I think if someone is taking care of their cardio at least a bit, regardless of weight, that they will have more energy and a higher libido. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> I think if someone is taking care of their cardio at least a bit, regardless of weight, that they will have more energy and a higher libido.


Actually exercise for some will minimize the libido. If I am very aroused and it is not a good time for my wife, I'll go for a walk / jog and then by the time I get back home my desire for sex is gone. This may not be the same for all.

So sometimes a high libido may be the result of not getting enough exercise and the body is trying to find a way to burn some calories. The result can be for the libido to ramp up.

Badsanta


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Speaking as a fellow citizen and not a mod.

I am very binary on this topic. 

1. M2 and I have a LOT of non sexual touch every day. We hug, we spoon we lie in a tangle watching tv. Sometimes we hold hands in our sleep. I prize this and do not sexualize it. 

2. When we have sex: I always make it as good for M2 as I can. Unless she specifically says she cannot rapture - I'm trying to get her there. This is not boring to either of us. If M2 didn't make an effort to get me there - I would consider that to be a form of indifference. I won't speak for anyone else, but indifference and sex do DO NOT blend well in our sexual routine. 





FeministInPink said:


> Try flipping this on its head for a second.
> 
> What if it's not your partner's orgasm that makes him feel close to you?
> 
> ...


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

MEM2020 said:


> Speaking as a fellow citizen and not a mod.
> 
> I am very binary on this topic.
> 
> ...


Agreed! 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This is what is so intensely frustrating. There are women here who are passionate and adventurous but who are paired with men who are selfish lovers on the rare occasions where they want sex at all. There are men who are romantic and loving, and who are happy to do anything their partner could as for in bed paired with women who have no interest.

It just seems that so many people could be so much happier if we could all just get the right partners. 

i know its not that simple but sometimes it seems like it. 

The temptation to cheat can be so high when it seems that there are women who would appreciate me and whom I would appreciate. Again, I know that there is a lot more to life than sex, but the desire remains.




CuddleBug said:


> Heh. My wife and your hubby should get together. You and I should do the same.:grin2:
> snip
> .


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

uhtred said:


> It just seems that so many people could be so much happier if we could all just get the right partners.


OR,--to bring this topic full circle-- if we changed our _perceptions_...



> The temptation to cheat can be so high when it seems that there are women who would appreciate me and whom I would appreciate. Again, I know that there is a lot more to life than sex, but the desire remains


Part of the appeal of an affair is that the affair partners focus on _each other_. No kids fighting, no diapers to change, no pets to care for, no bills to worry about (with the affair partner, that is), no in-laws. None of those everyday "distractions" of married life.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> Part of the appeal of an affair is that the affair partners focus on _each other_. No kids fighting, no diapers to change, no pets to care for, no bills to worry about (with the affair partner, that is), no in-laws. None of those everyday "distractions" of married life.


Completely agreed. I seriously doubt when someone is even just fantasizing about an affair or another partner they are picturing family vacations with that person. This brings up an interesting point as well, and I am sure different for each person, but how much of an affair is driven by wanting to escape reality vs it being is driven by the hormonal drive to be with someone else.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

uhtred said:


> This is what is so intensely frustrating. There are women here who are passionate and adventurous but who are paired with men who are selfish lovers on the rare occasions where they want sex at all. There are men who are romantic and loving, and who are happy to do anything their partner could as for in bed paired with women who have no interest.
> 
> It just seems that so many people could be so much happier if we could all just get the right partners.
> 
> ...


I think it's the underlying feelings surrounding sex that create the problem. Sex is an act. One that for me, with the right partner, involves feeling loved, desired, and needed. Sex with just anyone, or the wrong person does not result in those feelings. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Actually exercise for some will minimize the libido. If I am very aroused and it is not a good time for my wife, I'll go for a walk / jog and then by the time I get back home my desire for sex is gone. This may not be the same for all.
> 
> So sometimes a high libido may be the result of not getting enough exercise and the body is trying to find a way to burn some calories. The result can be for the libido to ramp up.
> 
> Badsanta


I think exercise can be used either way. I can definitely see how exercising can quell the immediate desire for sex. I am saying that in general the more a person exercises the higher their libedo may be, not that going for a run will get you all hot and ready right away. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> OR,--to bring this topic full circle-- if we changed our _perceptions_...
> 
> 
> 
> Part of the appeal of an affair is that the affair partners focus on _each other_. No kids fighting, no diapers to change, no pets to care for, no bills to worry about (with the affair partner, that is), no in-laws. None of those everyday "distractions" of married life.


That's not true in all cases though. Personally when I watch my husband taking care of our kids it is one of my biggest turn ons. For me it is the feelings of acceptance and love from my family unit that make sex great with my husband. I wish him and I had more. I find when we don't we end up bickering and arguing a lot more. My happy, loving family becomes a little less so. My desire is not to have an emotionally unattached affair. I want love, closeness, and intimacy. People cheat for all kinds of reasons. I'll bet more then a lot of reasons have an emotional reason behind them. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Actually exercise for some will minimize the libido. If I am very aroused and it is not a good time for my wife, I'll go for a walk / jog and then by the time I get back home my desire for sex is gone. This may not be the same for all.
> 
> So sometimes a high libido may be the result of not getting enough exercise and the body is trying to find a way to burn some calories. The result can be for the libido to ramp up.
> 
> Badsanta


I think they have actually shown exercise (too much) actually could suppress your drive and lead to lower t levels (in the same way it could lead to a reduced immune system). Maybe that is in part why I haven't had much of a drive of late and been sick a lot lol.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Mollymolz said:


> And in my opinion this is where it becomes necessary to make it a priority. It's an important aspect of marriage.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Agreed. The problem is of course when one person views it as a a priority and the other doesn't. Naturally you would think meeting in the middle would be in the best interest of both, but whether it be pride, selfishness, or other ... it all too often seems to not be the case.

Funny enough as well, when I try to make it more of a priority it is like there is a higher power out there saying "Not so fast, Skippy!" lol.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

EllisRedding said:


> I think they have actually shown exercise (too much) actually could suppress your drive and lead to lower t levels (in the same way it could lead to a reduced immune system). Maybe that is in part why I haven't had much of a drive of late and been sick a lot lol.


Really? That's interesting. Did it say how much exercise causes this? I thought more exercise increased t levels. Like anything, too much isn't good.

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## 1lonelyguy (Oct 5, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> Maybe LD's enjoy the honeymoon phase. That's just it though. It's a phase and it leaves us HD's high and dry. It's disappointing to say the least. I find I start pulling away emotionally when sex isn't happening. I feel like I live with a roommate. It's funny because my husband says the same thing, yet never attempts to up the sex. It leaves me taking the lack of sex very personally.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


I do the same thing. It's hard to stay emotionally connected when the intimacy is lacking. I think what's hard for me, too, is the fact that I can tell she is actively avoiding other kinds of intimacy because it might lead to sex. I often feel like I'm the butler. It's not a great feeling, and it certainly doesn't do much for my feelings of being loved and desired. Also, I find myself worrying after sex, "How long am I going to be sidelined this time?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> I wouldn't say I'm in great shape lol. I like cookies too much. Why is it that people with high sex drives wind up with low drive spouses. It seems very unfair.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


The law of large numbers, as well as the self selecting nature of forums like this.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> Agreed!
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


The majority, or a good percentage, of the 1x a month or less types would not want even non sexual touch for fear of it escalating...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed, but the temptation comes from the (usually incorrect) belief that the person you don't know well IS the "right" partner, that all the missing information is filled in from fantasy. Its not true, but its easy for the mind to go that way.



Mollymolz said:


> I think it's the underlying feelings surrounding sex that create the problem. Sex is an act. One that for me, with the right partner, involves feeling loved, desired, and needed. Sex with just anyone, or the wrong person does not result in those feelings.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> I think it's the underlying feelings surrounding sex that create the problem. Sex is an act. One that for me, with the right partner, involves feeling loved, desired, and needed. Sex with just anyone, or the wrong person does not result in those feelings.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


And you know your marriage is toast when sex with your partner - when it happens and regardless of quality - feels like case #2.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If we could change perceptions, I'd agree, but it can be difficult. I think for some people interest in sex is a pretty basic part of their personality.

In my case, in my marriage, there already are basically none of the problems you mention below. 



Vega said:


> OR,--to bring this topic full circle-- if we changed our _perceptions_...
> 
> 
> 
> Part of the appeal of an affair is that the affair partners focus on _each other_. No kids fighting, no diapers to change, no pets to care for, no bills to worry about (with the affair partner, that is), no in-laws. None of those everyday "distractions" of married life.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

john117 said:


> And you know your marriage is toast when sex with your partner - when it happens and regardless of quality - feels like case #2.


I'll say. That's a huge problem. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

john117 said:


> The majority, or a good percentage, of the 1x a month or less types would not want even non sexual touch for fear of it escalating...


I can't imagine living life like that. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Agreed, but the temptation comes from the (usually incorrect) belief that the person you don't know well IS the "right" partner, that all the missing information is filled in from fantasy. Its not true, but its easy for the mind to go that way.


Until the next morning you're kicked out the door without even having a morning coffee first. It depends on the situation I suppose. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> If I had a woman that was in great shape with a high adventurous sex drive, I would be the happiest guy out there. Result for her would be random flowers in the bathroom before she gets up for work, surprise dinners, lots of cuddling on the couch, going for walks, out to dinner and a movie, etc, etc., etc. *It would just flow and happen because my man needs are being met.*





Mollymolz said:


> Maybe LD's enjoy the honeymoon phase. That's just it though. It's a phase and it leaves us HD's high and dry. It's disappointing to say the least. I find I start pulling away emotionally when sex isn't happening. I feel like I live with a roommate. * It's funny because my husband says the same thing, yet never attempts to up the sex*. It leaves me taking the lack of sex very personally.


Put these two ideas together and you have demonstrated the classic mismatch dilemma.

The LD doesn't want sex because they don't feel emotionally connected to their HD partner. The HD doesn't feel emotionally connected to their LD partner because of lack of sex.

Bringing it back to perception vs reality: The LD person doesn't feel loved (via emotional connection), so sex is not desirable but feels like an obligation. The HD person doesn't feel loved (via sex) so feels no urge to provide emotional connection.

Nobody wants to have to be the one to act first to break the cycle. Why should THEY be the one to do something they aren't interested in?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> I can't imagine living life like that.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Actually it's a lot better than following your partner around like a puppy... 

I'm a big advocate of marital warfare for this very reason. Pseudo-intimacy tends to cloud the mind.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Put these two ideas together and you have demonstrated the classic mismatch dilemma.
> 
> The LD doesn't want sex because they don't feel emotionally connected to their HD partner. The HD doesn't feel emotionally connected to their LD partner because of lack of sex.
> 
> ...



I have to disagree with you.

Mrs.CuddleBug and I are emotionally close, talk about our day, texting, emoticons, some sexting from me to her, cuddling on the couch and she falls asleep in my arms, etc, etc, etc.

Her emotional needs are being met.

She is LD because of her size and insecurity. She can lose about 80+ lbs at this point. She knows she needs to lose a lot of weight, doesn't want me to see her naked or touch her. Because of this, we have never been in the shower together ever. Only sex we have is oral and doggy.

If Mrs.CuddleBug got motivated, made that life long change for her health, go to a gym, trainer, supplements, smaller healthier meals, no skipping meals and then eating chips, the weight would come off. It would take many years but then she could wear those sexy clothes she's always wanted to wear, model them for me and be confident. Her sex drive would follow.

If I was obese, I wouldn't want Mrs.CuddleBug to see me naked and I would minimize the sex because of my insecurity.

That's it in a nutshell.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

john117 said:


> Actually it's a lot better than following your partner around like a puppy...
> 
> I'm a big advocate of marital warfare for this very reason. Pseudo-intimacy tends to cloud the mind.


I'm sorry I'm not following your point. How is wanting intimacy, both sexual and emotional, like following a partner around like a puppy. If someone needed hugs and touching all day that would be an issue. I'm referring to sporadic moments during the day, maybe not even every day. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

CuddleBug said:


> I have to disagree with you.
> 
> Mrs.CuddleBug and I are emotionally close, talk about our day, texting, emoticons, some sexting from me to her, cuddling on the couch and she falls asleep in my arms, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


Are you attracted to her at her current size? If you are do you make sure she knows how much you are attracted to her? I knew a bigger girl before who said she didn't want sex from her husband because she always felt like she needed to shower first or something. She was insecure. The husband on the other hand absolutely thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world but was hurt that she turned him down all the time. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In a lot of mismatched drives the non low desire partner may simply hope for scraps of intimacy that rarely lead to anything. There always seems to be some reason that things don't - at least some of the time - take their natural path.

So, the non zero desire partner goes into hope springs eternal mode... 

It's once again a numbers issue. I don't think anyone expects insta-intercourse for every non sexual touch, but if one is batting .000 or close to it in, ehem, 2 point conversions... Then they go ummm.

A healthy relationship involves both types. Either extreme ain't healthy.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

CuddleBug said:


> If Mrs.CuddleBug got motivated, made that life long change for her health, go to a gym, trainer, supplements, smaller healthier meals, no skipping meals and then eating chips, the weight would come off. It would take many years but then she could wear those sexy clothes she's always wanted to wear, model them for me and be confident. Her sex drive would follow.


I think, in a nutshell, that the effort, discomfort and loss of perceived crutches (e.g. junk food) involved in the life-long changes are in no way outweighed by the potential benefits of wearing sexy clothes and having sex she isn't interested in. You might possibly sell the discomfort and so on in terms of "if you continue with this lifestyle it will kill you", but not based on the benefit of more sex. With her libido this low, you're trying to sell her something she isn't interested in buying.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Completely agreed. I seriously doubt when someone is even just fantasizing about an affair or another partner they are picturing family vacations with that person. This brings up an interesting point as well, and I am sure different for each person, *but how much of an affair is driven by wanting to escape reality vs it being is driven by the hormonal drive to be with someone else*.


Hmmm...

...and maybe (some of) the LD's feel almost 'overwhelmed' with reality, thus no real time/interest regarding sex. Maybe (s)he sees sex as 'fun' and that responsibilities come before "fun"...?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Manufactured responsibilities. We had a lot more sex 20 years ago with two toddlers and preparing our dissertations than we do now when said toddlers are in college.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> ...and maybe (some of) the LD's feel almost 'overwhelmed' with reality, thus no real time/interest regarding sex. Maybe (s)he sees sex as 'fun' and that responsibilities come before "fun"...?


I think if the drive/priority isn't quite there, it makes a lot of sense that something like sex would get pushed to the side if the person gets consumed with "reality" and its stresses. This is also an area where drive can be situational. Perfect example being my W when we are away by ourselves vs. when we are home dealing with family life, etc... Two completely different drives for her.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Mollymolz said:


> Are you attracted to her at her current size? If you are do you make sure she knows how much you are attracted to her? I knew a bigger girl before who said she didn't want sex from her husband because she always felt like she needed to shower first or something. She was insecure. The husband on the other hand absolutely thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world but was hurt that she turned him down all the time.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk



No, I am not attracted to Mrs.CuddleBug at her current size.

Do I find obese women sexy? Let me think about that......NOPE!!!

To lose the insecurity, you get in shape, lose the fat, you'll love what you see in mirror, confidence goes way up and watch what happens to the sex drive....it goes way up.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sometimes true, but sometimes not. I've made many attempts to break that cycle if it existed. Wife is happy with general physical attention and love / romance but still has no interest in sex. 





Hopeful Cynic said:


> Put these two ideas together and you have demonstrated the classic mismatch dilemma.
> 
> The LD doesn't want sex because they don't feel emotionally connected to their HD partner. The HD doesn't feel emotionally connected to their LD partner because of lack of sex.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Uhtred,

Totally agree with this. 

The notion that the HD spouse must be deficient somehow - is simply not true. 





uhtred said:


> If we could change perceptions, I'd agree, but it can be difficult. I think for some people interest in sex is a pretty basic part of their personality.
> 
> In my case, in my marriage, there already are basically none of the problems you mention below.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

MEM2020 said:


> Uhtred,
> 
> Totally agree with this.
> 
> The notion that the HD spouse must be deficient somehow - is simply not true.


And the notion that the LD spouse must be deficient somehow - is simply not true, either.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its possible that neither the LD or HD are deficient, that one or the other is, or that both are. 

Lots of different situations.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

I think that we're forgetting that HD and LD is also often dependent on the level physical attraction. Take two HD people, put them together, and there is a good chance that one of the HD's would become an LD in that new relationship.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Of course that is true. 

Because ultimately time and tide take their toll on all of us. In the final stretch everyone is low drive. 

As for the folks who get there a lot earlier than their partners, it is sort of like any other challenge. 

Being low or high drive has no polarity to it. No good or bad. It just 'is'. 





Vega said:


> And the notion that the LD spouse must be deficient somehow - is simply not true, either.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

uhtred said:


> This is what is so intensely frustrating. There are women here who are passionate and adventurous but who are paired with men who are selfish lovers on the rare occasions where they want sex at all. There are men who are romantic and loving, and who are happy to do anything their partner could as for in bed paired with women who have no interest.
> 
> It just seems that so many people could be so much happier if we could all just get the right partners.


I'm convinced that this happens because the two are drawn to each other (regardless of gender).

Givers are attracted to takers (givers need someone to give things to).

Takers are attracted to givers (takers want people to give them stuff).

Ideally, givers should be looking for givers but I don't think it works that way.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It may not be that givers are attracted to takers, but that takers identify and snap up givers when they find them. 





Buddy400 said:


> I'm convinced that this happens because the two are drawn to each other (regardless of gender).
> 
> Givers are attracted to takers (givers need someone to give things to).
> 
> ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I think it works both ways. Givers like dealing with Takers, because Givers get a big reward from being appreciated and many Givers are not good at taking. So when a Giver is with a Giver, there is a tension. Both want to give and neither wants to take. So neither feels appreciated for what they are giving. And both feel uncomfortable taking as much as their partner wants to give. Takers, on the other hand, are very appreciative of giving and allow their Giver partner to feel very fulfilled. At first. The problem comes later when the Giver feel empty and dares to make a request for some reciprocation. That is when the Taker shows their true colors. By that time, the Giver is invested in the relationship and doesn't want to dump the Taker for being selfish. Givers are not comfortable labeling their partner as selfish. And Givers tend not to be good at boundaries or taking decisive action to protect themselves.


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