# Mr. and Mrs. Drerio's Journey



## Ikaika

At the request of SimplyAmorous, I will start a journal that chronicles things that we (my lovely bride and myself) find helps us in working towards a longterm successful marriage.

Let me first say that "successful" does not mean perfect. I don't think perfect could ever describe a healthy marriage. We are talking about two individuals that bring all their faults and idiosyncratic ways into a relationship. Add children and you often get complications that can either sever or build upon what is already there. 

Married December 24, 1994 at the time I was 34 and my wife was 32. So, yes I am Santa Claus married to Mrs. Claus . First marriage for both of us. At the time we were married I was finishing up graduate school and my wife had just started into graduate school.

We waited five years to have our first child, a son... he is now 13 and soon to be 14. He was diagnosed with Autism at age 3.5

Two years later we had a second child, another son... he is 11 and soon to be 12. He is very energetic and often operates on two speeds, "go" and "sleep". 

We both work full time, juggle finances with owning a home along with living in a very expensive part of the world. 

More to come. I hope you will join us. Next up, I will chronicle some of the early years then move toward recent and finally what is currently going on in our lives. Don't expect me to write something everyday... real life is rarely that exciting


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## Ikaika

Admittedly, when I first got married to my lovely wife, I probably was not ready as I should have been. In the beginning, I liked the idea of being married but felt at a loss for not being able to live life on my own terms.

I think there were times when tension built over my just doing things (going out with friends, etc) without saying anything to my wife. She would get furious and rightfully so. I never had any itchy desire to cheat, it was just that I liked hanging out with my friends and I was not used to this idea of letting someone know where I was or who I was hanging out with at the time. 

There were also issues in my past (childhood), that would cause me to be angry over issues that really should not have mattered to anyone. So, yes in the beginning I had some anger issues. If you had seen us in our early years, you would have said "I give that five years and it is over". 

Add to all this we were dirt poor. I was just out of graduate school and my first job barely paid for rent. We lived on beans and rice. My wife, was in graduate school and the stress there just added a lot to the whole situation. We couldn't even get away from each other living in a studio apartment (the size of our current bedroom).

So in our first three years... it was rough. Really rough. Somehow, deep down, along with my love for her, I knew that I needed to be better. I was resolute in being a better husband not just an occupant within the household. Years latter, my wife admitted that she made somewhat of the same decision on her own. Rough as it was, the word or thought of divorce never ever crept into our thought or conversation. 

The one thing we never ever stopped doing was communicate. Sure, the communications got loud at times, but we never stopped talking with each other. Never talking past each other. In the early years, I believe this is what was our salvation.


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## TBT

drerio said:


> Don't expect me to write something everyday... real life is rarely that exciting


Hey d,as I've gotten older I've started to appreciate much more how all the little things really constitute the majority of my life."Stop and smell the roses" is my mantra now.

Going to enjoy following your journey.Thanks for being willing to share.


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## 2ntnuf

Thanks for sharing your story, d.


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## LanieB

I'm so glad you're posting this, Drerio! I love a good story with a happy ending ---- well, actually in this case ---- *journey*.


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## Northern Monkey

Thanks for sharing D.

I'll definitely be following.


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## SimplyAmorous

So nice to see your taking the time to share your Marital Journey Drerio ...the hardships, blemishes, the trials of parenting an autistic son....both working full time, juggling finances in a high cost area ....in these things...this is where & what others can relate to...which can offer hope for their own journeys.... 

And here you are...still together, still kicking...on the verge of your 20th Anniversary. 



> *TBT said*: Hey d,as I've gotten older I've started to appreciate much more how all the little things really constitute the majority of my life."*Stop and smell the roses"* is my mantra now.


 I think we all miss it in our early years...somewhere .... Mid Life brought on that wake up call for me too....realizing...  where did all the TIME go!!

I read this in a children's book a long time ago......"Time slips through our fingers like sand.. .yesterday is gone, tomorrow may never come... but we have this moment TODAY".... 








Looking forward to hearing your continued Journey Drerio....


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## Ikaika

Trenton said:


> More! More! More!


patience this island boy says to the Jersey girl. I will give you more, but I always take just enough time to ensure satisfaction.


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## Lyris

Waiting impatiently for more too.


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## Ikaika

Years 3 - 10 we both settled in but a lot happened that could have really brought a lot to question:

1997
My wife finished her Masters in Speech and Language Pathology and got a job right away in the public school system

That same year I received my faculty appointment (same one I have now)

Both of these events brought a lot of stress. Starting a new job for both of us made adjusting to the idea of finally being grown up all that much harder. I know, in our 30s and finally we figure we have grown up.  

That same year we moved into an ohana house built by my FIL. My in-laws allowed us to stay there so that we could save enough money for a down payment on a house. Less than a year later my FIL was diagnosed with cancer and was given six months to live. We become part time caretakers while working full time (my MIL of course carried the largest burden of care). I did not mind it one bit. I felt honored to care for this man that took me into his family. 

A few months before he would die, my wife was pregnant with our first son. I still recall one early morning (about 3am) when I was changing my FIL's IV fluids he looked at me and said he liked the name "Kenji". What that meant is that he wanted our son's middle name to be Kenji. I still remember going back to bed in the Ohana unit and telling my wife... she cringed. I knew she did not like that name. But, I was not going to deny him that right to give our son his middle name. 

My FIL died Jan 1999. Almost six-months to that day, my oldest son was born. I was on cloud nine... I was sooooo happy. I was elated with the idea of holding this life in my arms. Ok, screeech... changing diapers, not so happy. But, I got used to it. I would say the two years that followed my sons birth were at that time the best years of our marriage. We were clicking along... I pulled my weight. My wife went to working half time and she loved being a mom. And, I loved her more at that moment than I had all the years prior. 

More to come... buying a home, second son and the news about our first son.


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## mablenc

Aww, I'm already hooked.


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## somethingelse

I like this story. I'm subscribing


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## Ikaika

When my FIL was bed bound during the later months of his cancer and he was still able to converse freely, he told my wife one day "you made the right decision". You have to realize, he was a man of few words, but what he did say he gave meaning to it. He was the kind of man that when he talked he got everybody's attention. In the world of some male TAM members he would be an alpha alpha (not that he had time to pay much attention to trying to be someone he wasn't). Anyway what he told my wife is that she made the right choice in marrying me. 

I can't tell you how much this meant to me. All my years growing up my own father pretty much dismissed me as a 'loser' and "good for nothing" (his words not mine). Here was a man I looked up to and I received affirmation. It made no difference he, my FIL, had barely graduated from HS, he was someone I could only wish to emulate. He worked hard all his life as a farmer and as a carpenter, helped (along with MIL) to raise five children to be wonderful adults and when he retired built the house my MIL is currently living in. I loved and respected the man. I know he was not perfect, but he was a good and decent person, a true patriarch of the family. A man with rough hands and a hard exterior, but a very loving man with a soft heart toward his family.

I saw time and time again how his own grown children would come to him when they were having difficulties in their life. He was the wise sage, the calming spirit and one who would speak the truth (love and tough love alike). 

So what does this have to do with my marriage. I learned a lot from spending time with him. He did not have to say much, I just watched and learned. And, I had much to learn and that is what I did... I was a sponge. I am forever grateful for my FIL and know that he gave me the gift of his daughter. 

I can say without doubt, willing to learn from my FIL has contributed a significant part to the success in this journey of marriage.


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## Ikaika

summarize two points that has worked for us thus far:

1. communication is important... but also the type of communication is what is even more important. We don't talk past each other (if this makes sense).

2. Family is important... not just our immediate family but your extended families. Feeling part of the tribe, I felt has made my marriage stronger


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## Northern Monkey

drerio said:


> summarize two points that has worked for us thus far:
> 
> 1. communication is important... but also the type of communication is what is even more important. We don't talk past each other (if this makes sense).



Me and stbx made an art of talking past each other. Makes perfect sense.

Something i've been saying to my brother in his marital strife (using my learnt loo late lessons heh), communication is only effective if your spouse hears the message being delivered in the way you intend. If they don't get it, you haven't communicated effectively.

For all the many problems my marriage had, I think many of them could have been headed off with effective communication from both of us.


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## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> When my FIL was bed bound during the later months of his cancer and he was still able to converse freely, *he told my wife one day "you made the right decision". You have to realize, he was a man of few words, but what he did say he gave meaning to it. * ....
> 
> *I can't tell you how much this meant to me. * All my years growing up my own father pretty much dismissed me as a 'loser' and "good for nothing" (his words not mine). Here was a man I looked up to and I received affirmation. It made no difference he, *my FIL, had barely graduated from HS, he was someone I could only wish to emulate. He worked hard all his life as a farmer and as a carpenter, helped (along with MIL) to raise five children to be wonderful adults and when he retired built the house my MIL is currently living in. I loved and respected the man.* I know he was not perfect, but he was a good and decent person, a true patriarch of the family. *A man with rough hands and a hard exterior, but a very loving man with a soft heart toward his family.
> 
> I saw time and time again how his own grown children would come to him when they were having difficulties in their life. He was the wise sage, the calming spirit and one who would speak the truth (love and tough love alike). *
> 
> So what does this have to do with my marriage. I learned a lot from spending time with him. He did not have to say much, I just watched and learned. And, I had much to learn and that is what I did... *I was a sponge. I am forever grateful for my FIL and know that he gave me the gift of his daughter.*
> 
> *I can say without doubt, willing to learn from my FIL has contributed a significant part to the success in this journey of marriage*.


I dearly love what you spoke about your Father in Law....what a wonderful man...I can see ..how his words...probably carried you in your darker hours over the years...so often we come back to things like that ....Just very touched by this relationship...and his influence over you ....to be a "sponge" to a man of wisdom... is very wise.


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## arbitrator

drerio said:


> s
> 
> 1. Communication is important... but also the type of communication is what is even more important. We don't talk past each other (if this makes sense).
> 
> 2. Family is important... not just our immediate family but your extended families. Feeling part of the tribe, I felt has made my marriage stronger


Greatly like you, the *family part* is what God has truly blessed me with. I absolutely woudn't trade my love and my steadfast relationship with my boys for all of the tea in China!

But Drerio, I would fastly trade that China tea for just 10% of those *marital communication skills* that you two have so lovingly honed together. And with absolutely no questions asked!


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## Ikaika

Before I continue with post #11:

So before I met my wife, I was an avid health "nut". I tried to eat as well as I could afford and I exercised as often as time would allow. I am primarily a swimmer and runner although more the former than the latter. I was part of the local Masters Swim Club and participated in a number of biathlons (swim and run events). 

I carried some of this lifestyle into our marriage, however as the years went on I waned from both my healthier eating habits and exercising. My wife followed suit and we both fell into bad habits. Life events happened (some I will discuss later), stress of children and work piled up and I started to drink a lot. I was not at the level of needing to join AA, but it was not good either. It was not only affecting my health (my weight was almost 190, my HR, BP and other parameters were bad) but my relationship with my children and my wife was deteriorating. I will admit there were days, weeks and possibly even months straight that I was so inebriated in the evenings I would pass out on the couch or in bed... neglecting my wife. It is not that I was angry at her or had no desire for sex, it was simply a bad habit that lead to these bad circumstances. 

As I continued to abuse my body with overindulgences, I also started to pay the price with health signals, kidney stones, a bout of jaundice, etc. I remember waking up one day and saying to myself this has to stop. If not I will not see my sons grow up. I got up, saw a half-full wine bottle and 9 beers in the fridge. I opened every bottle of beer and poured them all down the sink. Did the same with the wine bottle. That afternoon, I bought some running shoes. My wife's reaction  "and you are going to do what?" Since that day, I have continued to work toward getting back my mojo. And, although a number of other medical issues cropped up since then, I have been able to deal with everything now that I have made this lifestyle change once again. My health parameters are now close to what they were when I was 20... not only that my sexual mojo is close to that of a 20 year old as well :smthumbup: Now, I only drink if I go out to dinner and even then, I try to limit that amount. So far successful. Again, my wife followed suit and she too is on track with keeping up with exercise and eating right. Do we ever eat bad? Sure but these are truly considered treats now and not something that happens daily or even weekly. And, our sex life has improved from what was probably 5x/month to 3 - 4x/week. All spontaneous and wonderful...


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## 2ntnuf

So you are human?


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## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> So you are *human*?


I am... but not sure this story is very interesting. I think most people that come to TAM and stay here would rather get juicy gossip rather than my boring dribble. After all if reality TV were real, no one would watch. 

I have more to say, just not sure anyone really cares.


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## Lyris

I am really interested drerio. Just like I was in sandc's story. Please keep writing, you are very inspiring, whether you know it or not.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

drerio said:


> The one thing we never ever stopped doing was communicate. Sure, the communications got loud at times, but we never stopped talking with each other. *Never talking past each other. * In the early years, I believe this is what was our salvation.


I am not familiar with this term....what do you mean?


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## Northern Monkey

drerio said:


> I am... but not sure this story is very interesting. I think most people that come to TAM and stay here would rather get juicy gossip rather than my boring dribble. After all if reality TV were real, no one would watch.
> 
> I have more to say, just not sure anyone really cares.


I won't deny i am partial to the drama in some threads in a way. misery loves company afterall.

I really do appreciate tales of success though. It's easy to think omg we're all doomed to endless breakups. Its also easy to say well they are only still together and happy cos of blind luck. Especially when most of your time outside of social is spent in GTDS..

Truth is every "happy marriage" I have been blessed to read about here, has probably had as many issues as mine did. I find it inspiring that two people that love each other can overcome the difficult times.

I'd go so far as to say I NEED these reminders how amazing marriage/commitment can be.

No backing out now D.


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## 2ntnuf

drerio said:


> I am... but not sure this story is very interesting. I think most people that come to TAM and stay here would rather get juicy gossip rather than my boring dribble. After all if reality TV were real, no one would watch.
> 
> I have more to say, just not sure anyone really cares.


I care. Some will like it and read it. Some will not. It is true in many cases that folks really like drama. I'm enjoying reading that you had issues and worked through them. I am waiting to read the whole story, then I may have a few questions.


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I am not familiar with this term....what do you mean?


It is like when a politician is asked a question... you notice that they act as if they did not hear what was being asked and just rambled on with their own agenda and thoughts. 

In other words, a disregard and disrespect for the other persons thoughts, ideas and feelings. 

I can't say I am complete in this, but there have been times when my wife expressed things to me that I know bothered her (legitimate) and it was uncomfortable for me to listen to. I try not to say things like "I don't want to talk about it" then go on with something I wanted to discuss. 

Does this make sense?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Yep, I'm with the monkey brothers here drerio (Northern & 2). It makes me SAD for my own situation, but HAPPY for YOU and for the inspiration you can give others!!!!


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## LoriC

drerio said:


> I am... but not sure this story is very interesting. I think most people that come to TAM and stay here would rather get juicy gossip rather than my boring dribble. After all if reality TV were real, no one would watch.
> 
> I have more to say, just not sure anyone really cares.


I am enjoying your story!


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## 2ntnuf

drerio said:


> It is like when a politician is asked a question... you notice that they act as if they did not hear what was being asked and just rambled on with their own agenda and thoughts.
> 
> In other words, a disregard and disrespect for the other persons thoughts, ideas and feelings.
> 
> I can't say I am complete in this, but there have been times when my wife expressed things to me that I know bothered her (legitimate) and it was uncomfortable for me to listen to. I try not to say things like "I don't want to talk about it" then go on with something I wanted to discuss.
> 
> Does this make sense?


Makes perfect sense to me. I do it. I know it's wrong. I work toward changing that about myself. One thing I notice is, I do it quite a bit more when I am tired at the end of the day. I know it's part of the "fix it" mentality. 

It's something I thought I had beaten a long time ago. I realize I must still be vigilant. It's a really bad habit. It shows a lack of empathy. I am currently working on that issue. 

So many issues..........lowers head in shame..........


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## Northern Monkey

God i hope having issues isn't cause for shame, I've only just stopped being ashamed of myself and mine.

I think so long as you're willing to look for, acknowledge and work on them, they should be embraced. The issues and how we deal with them are a huge part of what makes us who we are.


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## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> Makes perfect sense to me. I do it. I know it's wrong. I work toward changing that about myself. One thing I notice is, I do it quite a bit more when I am tired at the end of the day. I know it's part of the "fix it" mentality.
> 
> It's something I thought I had beaten a long time ago. I realize I must still be vigilant. It's a really bad habit. It shows a lack of empathy. I am currently working on that issue.
> 
> So many issues..........lowers head in shame..........


I am not perfect, but respect given is respect earned, at least that is part of how I see communication.


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## 2ntnuf

drerio said:


> I am not perfect, but respect given is respect earned, at least that is part of how I see communication.


What's sad is, I know this. It's not that I don't. I just seem to get......not sure. I'm still working on it. I'm not sure if it's laziness or frustration? I'll figure it out and work on it or just accept it and work on it. Either way, LOL I am working on it.


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## Ikaika

Love, respect and commit: these are complicated verbs. My story is an attempt to weave these together in both my successes as well as presenting my vulnerabilities (failures). 

It is hard, because I don't want to sugar coat any of this... To do so would be rightfully criticized and serve no function. 

Partly this is why (to Trenton), I can't just put it all out there at once. I agonize at telling my story, because I begin to feel naked. So please be gentle. But don't ever forget, I will do all I can to defend my marriage against any and all attacks.


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## Caribbean Man

drerio said:


> But don't ever forget, I will do all I can to defend my marriage against any and all attacks.


:iagree:
My very own , personal credo too.
I've had to do it once here on TAM.
It did not go down very nice.....


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## Ikaika

Thought I would share this before I continue my story. Also I plan on interviewing my wife this weekend with recorder in hand. I know it is going to be tough to here some answers but I want her voice to be heard as well. 

Last day of school for my kiddos. My oldest (autistic) son apparently painted a self portrait of himself as a requirement for a grade. He did not want to bring it home. And, when I put it in the car, he wanted to destroy it. I have to hide it from him:


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## 2ntnuf

Holy Crap! I'm tongue tied. It's beautiful, d.


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## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> Holy Crap! I'm tongue tied. It's beautiful, d.


thank you... but not sure I will be able to hang up in the house anywhere. This is the life of an autistic mind.


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## Ikaika

Should make the point of saying... since that day I poured out the alcohol, I have consumed some beer and wine at home on occasion, but as of late (since last December), none. I hope to keep to the policy of drinking only when I go out and only a few.


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## somethingelse

Wow! He sure is gifted with art. What an amazing portrait


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## Ikaika

somethingelse said:


> Wow! He sure is gifted with art. What an amazing portrait


He hates it, I want to frame it and hang it up. If we did, sure he would find the opportunity to destroy it.


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## somethingelse

drerio said:


> He hates it, I want to frame it and hang it up. If we did, sure he would find the opportunity to destroy it.


Why would he want to destroy such a beautiful piece of art he made? That's so sad.


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## Ikaika

somethingelse said:


> Why would he want to destroy such a beautiful piece of art he made? That's so sad.


I wish I could give you an answer. The challenges of an ASD child.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Well, even if he can't see it or feel it, *WE* can all see Kenji's magnificent talent!

*In Japanese the meaning of the name Kenji is: Intelligent second son; strong and vigorous.*

He looks to be ALL of those things in his talented self-portrait!


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Well, even if he can't see it or feel it, *WE* can all see Kenji's magnificent talent!
> 
> *In Japanese the meaning of the name Kenji is: Intelligent second son; strong and vigorous.*
> 
> He looks to be ALL of those things in his talented self-portrait!


Thank you SGW


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## Caribbean Man

drerio said:


> Thought I would share this before I continue my story. Also I plan on interviewing my wife this weekend with recorder in hand. I know it is going to be tough to here some answers but I want her voice to be heard as well.
> 
> Last day of school for my kiddos. My oldest (autistic) son apparently painted a self portrait of himself as a requirement for a grade. He did not want to bring it home. And, when I put it in the car, he wanted to destroy it. I have to hide it from him:



First of all, please forgive my ignorance,I wasn't quite aware that you had a son who was Autistic. Maybe I don't spend much time on TAM,or I tend to focus on just the threads I am actively participating in. This is the first time I'm reading / participitating in a thread started by you.

That is a very interesting self portrait done by your son.

I am an amateur artist, I used to sketch and paint as a hobby.
[ lol, haven't done so in quite a while.]
Most artists work are a form of self expression.

whenever I look at art, I try to see it from the angle of the painter / artist.Maybe its just that old part of me.

I look at this portrait, some things are jumping out at me.

1] The background used. What he used was a background of abstract, continuous , asymmetrical lines , shapes and forms.The background commands my attention first.

2]The style / medium. The style he used is normally used by graphic artist in black & white format,which I think its called 
" contrasting." 
Interestingly he contrasts the portrait against an abstract background .

3] In the portrait ,the majority of it is black without much detail.
In the part of the portrait that is supposed to be white, there is a " _collage_ " along a monochrome colour scheme ,with asymmetrical shapes and lines. Interestingly enough, that part of the portrait is rich with details , including facial expression and the background.

In essence, it is a beautiful piece, even though it's supposed to be a black & white contrast, there is nothing simple about it.

My advice is to preserve it and save it.


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## 2ntnuf

drerio said:


> thank you... but not sure I will be able to hang up in the house anywhere. This is the life of an autistic mind.


I don't need or expect an explanation. I just wanted you to know I don't understand what you mean here. I must be looking at it differently. I truly think it's a talent. Maybe I am missing something?


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## 2ntnuf

Caribbean Man said:


> First of all, please forgive my ignorance,I wasn't quite aware that you had a son who was Autistic. Maybe I don't spend much time on TAM,or I tend to focus on just the threads I am actively participating in. This is the first time I'm reading / participitating in a thread started by you.
> 
> That is a very interesting self portrait done by your son.
> 
> I am an amateur artist, I used to sketch and paint as a hobby.
> [ lol, haven't done so in quite a while.]
> Most artists work are a form of self expression.
> 
> whenever I look at art, I try to see it from the angle of the painter / artist.Maybe its just that old part of me.
> 
> I look at this portrait, some things are jumping out at me.
> 
> 1] The background used. What he used was a background of abstract, continuous , asymmetrical lines , shapes and forms.The background commands my attention first.
> 
> 2]The style / medium. The style he used is normally used by graphic artist in black & white format,which I think its called
> " contrasting."
> Interestingly he contrasts the portrait against an abstract background .
> 
> 3] In the portrait ,the majority of it is black without much detail.
> In the part of the portrait that is supposed to be white, there is a " _collage_ " along a monochrome colour scheme ,with asymmetrical shapes and lines. Interestingly enough, that part of the portrait is rich with details , including facial expression and the background.
> 
> In essence, it is a beautiful piece, even though it's supposed to be a black & white contrast, there is nothing simple about it.
> 
> My advice is to preserve it and save it.


Not knowing all the terms. Yep, that's what I saw. He's a genius. His expression of his world shows how he looks at it, yes. It is not right or wrong. It is his world. It is a beautiful world in some ways. He has captured the beauty of his surroundings while showing the complexity of his world. The contrast between his world and ours is like living in a different dimension in time and space with his physical being trapped in this world that neither can communicate in an effective manner to create understanding. It seems as very frustrating to him as it might be to others. 

I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds, d. I am totally impressed with his self portrait.


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## Caribbean Man

2ntnuf said:


> Not knowing all the terms. Yep, that's what I saw. He's a genius. His expression of his world shows how he looks at it, yes. It is not right or wrong. It is his world. It is a beautiful world in some ways. He has captured the beauty of his surroundings while showing the complexity of his world. The contrast between his world and ours is like living in a different dimension in time and space with his physical being trapped in this world that neither can communicate in an effective manner to create understanding. It seems as very frustrating to him as it might be to others.
> 
> *I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds, d. I am totally impressed with his self portrait.*


YES! Me too!

Me too, I'm VERY impressed with his perception and how he choose to portray it!
He is a brilliant kid.


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## Ikaika

2n and CM... not offended by anything said... you did not overstep any boundaries. When we asked him how he came up with the concept about his self portrait he got angry... why? We have no idea. I guess some things are better left unsaid. 

Anyway we finally talked my son into allowing me to hanging it in the music room.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Well, if he's interested, you can tell him that everyone here who's seen it thinks it's BEAUTIFUL, STRIKING, CREATIVE, FULL OF TALENT!

I wish I had artistic talent like he so obviously does!


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Well, if he's interested, you can tell him that everyone here who's seen it thinks it's BEAUTIFUL, STRIKING, CREATIVE, FULL OF TALENT!
> 
> I wish I had artistic talent like he so obviously does!


I would love to let him know, but with his mind I fear that would make him more angry. I really wish I could explain it.

No doubt everyone likes it, along with my wife and I. 

I will put up more of our story (continuing page 11) later today and maybe explain a little bit about my son and how it has both positively and sometimes negatively affected our marriage. 

Thank you everyone.


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## Lyris

Drerio, that painting is wonderful. I'm glad he let you put it up.

On the anger part, I work with little kids and I have a policy of never displaying their art work unless they ask me to. That's because often an art piece is an expression of emotion which feels very private to the child, and they prefer not to be so exposed.

Please forgive me if I'm overstepping, but perhaps, as a person with autism, your son finds it very difficult to express and explain how he is feeling, but he clearly poured a lot of feeling into that painting. And then, trying to explain it verbally was too much to handle, maybe even just looking at it with all the visual evidence of his inexpressible feelings is too difficult for him.

Anyway, feel free to disregard this if it doesn't fit.


----------



## Ikaika

The two years from the time my first son was born until our second son was born were good years of our marriage. My wife says she was on cloud 9 as was I (described earlier). For a little more than the first year of Kenji’s life (born June 1999) we continued to live with my MIL. I painted my MIL’s house during that time, on my off days from work. I Installed a solar water heating system and essentially tried to make myself useful in the absence of my FIL (passed away by this time). It was a good year on the stock market and our investments were paying dividends that allowed us to make enough money to shop for our house.

In the Summer of 2000, we purchased our first home (only home really, since we are still here). We moved about eight miles away from MIL in August 30, 2000 to our new home. Work was putting new demands on my career and my wife returned to being a speech and language pathologist. This time she started her own company and got contracts through the state government. It allowed my wife to work hours that was a good fit for being a mom. We were cash poor after the purchase of our home and it needed some work. I held it together with the best of my abilities. My weekends started 7am on Saturday and ended 6pm on Sunday to make repairs and keep up with all the maintenance required. My wife was 38 and she felt the pressure to move on with trying to get pregnant. So toward the end of 2000 for a short period was a bit stressful on our marriage even though we were still riding high (new parents). 

Throughout the first eight months of 2001, my wife was pregnant with out second son. Surprisingly we were more intimate during her second pregnancy than through her first. I think, I was somewhat intimidated and scared the first time around. It seemed fine this time. Unfortunately during the entire month of July my wife started to react to the pregnancy by developing a non-threatening condition called PUPPS. A rash condition with no relief during the hot months of the summer. The only remedy was steroid treatment. For obvious reasons she could not be treated during her pregnancy. So on August 7, 2001, we drove down to Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children to have my wife put on Pitocin to induce her labor and delivery. At about 5pm, she went into labor and my second son was born. We gave him the middle name to honor my FIL (his middle name was derivative of FIL name), Ryo. I knew from the beginning this boy would be trouble. He started lifting his head almost immediately after the cord was cut. The first time I brought Kenji to meet his little brother, he wanted nothing to do with Ryo. 

The jealousy that started, put some stress on the whole family. Add to that, a second child was not just double the work; there was an exponential parenting workload that came the day we arrived home from the hospital. This added a lot of stress to the marriage. Our intimacy went from 60 - 0 in an instant. My wife was too tired. We never had a free moment to ourselves (when I got home from work) and at every chance I had I was either sleeping or now I was beginning to drink. My wife was resenting some of my poor choices and I was angry that she was always too tired to have sex. What I have come to realize is that this is not abnormal. It was never a reason to call it quits. We probably should have gone to counseling but we just worked through it. We would fight often and rarely found comfort in each other. However, I never for a moment questioned my marriage or stopped loving my wife. The one thing we did that helped was we continued to talk. Neither of us used silence to punish the other. Our one savior, in-laws. I would say, it would have been really hard if we did not have a place to bring our sons from time to time so that we could have some alone time. Sadly our alone time often resulted in more fighting or sleep. 

The year and half after Ryo was born, I could easily count the number of times we were intimate. No one ever told me to leave my wife and it never ever ever crossed my mind to contemplate. Regardless, I still was in love with my wife, Keiko, and she (told me last night) was still in love with me back then, but that she was angry sometimes. She could not always say why, but it was hard. She felt a bit overwhelmed being a mom of two young boys. 

I believe what got us through this was trying to have patience, continued communication and the in-laws. I am sure that without all three, our marriage would have suffered (probably even to the present day). I looked at my marriage like it was a marathon. This was essentially a steep hill to climb, but required both of us to just push through it. The single word that I could use to summarize this time in our marriage, fortitude. 

More to come... unless you are bored. If so, please tell me and I will quit.


----------



## Ikaika

Lyris said:


> Drerio, that painting is wonderful. I'm glad he let you put it up.
> 
> On the anger part, I work with little kids and I have a policy of never displaying their art work unless they ask me to. That's because often an art piece is an expression of emotion which feels very private to the child, and they prefer not to be so exposed.
> 
> Please forgive me if I'm overstepping, but perhaps, as a person with autism, your son finds it very difficult to express and explain how he is feeling, but he clearly poured a lot of feeling into that painting. And then, trying to explain it verbally was too much to handle, maybe even just looking at it with all the visual evidence of his inexpressible feelings is too difficult for him.
> 
> Anyway, feel free to disregard this if it doesn't fit.


Thank you... and no you are not overstepping on anything. Thank you for sharing your experiences. It helps. It does take a village to raise a child.


----------



## 2ntnuf

drerio said:


> The two years from the time my first son was born until our second son was born were good years of our marriage. My wife says she was on cloud 9 as was I (described earlier). For a little more than the first year of Kenji’s life (born June 1999) we continued to live with my MIL. I painted my MIL’s house during that time, on my off days from work. I Installed a solar water heating system and essentially tried to make myself useful in the absence of my FIL (passed away by this time). It was a good year on the stock market and our investments were paying dividends that allowed us to make enough money to shop for our house.
> 
> In the Summer of 2000, we purchased our first home (only home really, since we are still here). We moved about eight miles away from MIL in August 30, 2000 to our new home. Work was putting new demands on my career and my wife returned to being a speech and language pathologist. This time she started her own company and got contracts through the state government. It allowed my wife to work hours that was a good fit for being a mom. We were cash poor after the purchase of our home and it needed some work. I held it together with the best of my abilities. My weekends started 7am on Saturday and ended 6pm on Sunday to make repairs and keep up with all the maintenance required. My wife was 38 and she felt the pressure to move on with trying to get pregnant. So toward the end of 2000 for a short period was a bit stressful on our marriage even though we were still riding high (new parents).
> 
> Throughout the first eight months of 2001, my wife was pregnant with out second son. Surprisingly we were more intimate during her second pregnancy than through her first. I think, I was somewhat intimidated and scared the first time around. It seemed fine this time. Unfortunately during the entire month of July my wife started to react to the pregnancy by developing a non-threatening condition called PUPPS. A rash condition with no relief during the hot months of the summer. The only remedy was steroid treatment. For obvious reasons she could not be treated during her pregnancy. So on August 7, 2001, we drove down to Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children to have my wife put on Pitocin to induce her labor and delivery. At about 5pm, she went into labor and my second son was born. We gave him the middle name to honor my FIL (his middle name was derivative of FIL name), Ryo. I knew from the beginning this boy would be trouble. He started lifting his head almost immediately after the cord was cut. The first time I brought Kenji to meet his little brother, he wanted nothing to do with Ryo.
> 
> The jealousy that started, put some stress on the whole family. Add to that, a second child was not just double the work; there was an exponential parenting workload that came the day we arrived home from the hospital. This added a lot of stress to the marriage. Our intimacy went from 60 - 0 in an instant. My wife was too tired. We never had a free moment to ourselves (when I got home from work) and at every chance I had I was either sleeping or now I was beginning to drink. My wife was resenting some of my poor choices and I was angry that she was always too tired to have sex. What I have come to realize is that this is not abnormal. It was never a reason to call it quits. We probably should have gone to counseling but we just worked through it. We would fight often and rarely found comfort in each other. However, I never for a moment questioned my marriage or stopped loving my wife. *The one thing we did that helped was we continued to talk.* Neither of us used silence to punish the other. Our one savior, in-laws. I would say, it would have been really hard if we did not have a place to bring our sons from time to time so that we could have some alone time. Sadly our alone time often resulted in more fighting or sleep.
> 
> *The year and half after Ryo was born, I could easily count the number of times we were intimate. No one ever told me to leave my wife and it never ever ever crossed my mind to contemplate. *Regardless, I still was in love with my wife, Keiko, and she (told me last night) that she was still in love with me back then, but that she was angry sometimes. She could not always say why, but it was hard. She felt a bit overwhelmed being a mom of two young boys.
> 
> I believe what got us through this was trying to* have patience, continued communication and the in-laws. * I am sure that without all three, our marriage would have suffered (probably even to the present day). *I looked at my marriage like it was a marathon. * This was essentially a steep hill to climb, but required both of us to just push through it. The single word that I could use to summarize this time in our marriage, fortitude.
> 
> More to come... unless you are bored. If so, please tell me and I will quit.


It's a journey. Isn't it? You both deserve credit for your patience, faithfulness and commitment to your marriage, each other and your children throughout those difficult times.


----------



## Ikaika

Thanks 2n... it is a journey. And, as you can see the last 18+ years were not paved with honey and gold. 

As I said in the beginning, success ≠ perfect. I will eventually get to the point where my marriage now is better than it ever was. And, how I got there? Stay tuned.


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## Coffee Amore

drerio - your son is both artistic and autistic. I'm glad he gave you permission to hang it in the music room. It's a gorgeous piece of artwork. 

You're a good storyteller. Please keep going with the story of your marriage. I'm eager to read the rest of it.


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## Ikaika

Before I continue with post #53, I want to talk about being with my wife (physically)

Keiko when we first met



I met her April 1990 and we knew each other for four years prior to finally getting married. We dated off and on. I was bit of a scoundrel. I didn't really have a girlfriend and continued to go out with other women during those four years. But, time and time again, I couldn't get my mind off of Keiko. I guess you could say as those years went on, the "fog" of love was getting thicker and thicker. 

She was different. Some might say she was playing hard and harder to get, but she says she was being cautious. I think in some ways she hooked me rather than the other way around. I finally asked her to marry me, March 4, 1994. Her response and pretty typical of Keiko: "I will make your life miserable <pregnant pause> Ok, I will marry you." I looked befuddled and happy all at the same time.

I couldn't get enough of Keiko... I wanted to be with her as often as I could. When we first got married, I couldn't keep my hands off of her. 

As you have read above with time passing and children in our lives that was not always the case. However, what seemed apparent is whenever she was not in my presence (not necessarily visually, but at least under the same roof), I was lost. To this day, it is still the same. If you go back and look at how little I posted during my recent trip to Eugene, OR... it was because, I was talking with my wife on the phone or texting with her. As I may have described, I felt like a lost puppy. Even as I write this my wife is making healthy chocolate chip cookies downstairs while I am upstairs in the music room. I may not have to see her, but I feel her presence. The thick fog of love may have lifted but it has been replaced with a love that is hard to describe but is certainly stronger and gives more meaning and clarity to life.

I will continue the story either Monday or Tuesday. Tomorrow is a day with the family.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Enjoying the journey!

Have a fun SUNDAY with the family! Everyone else have a great Sunday, too!


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## LanieB

I'm so happy you're posting your story, Drerio! I had to catch up on it this morning. Your wife is absolutely beautiful!


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## Ikaika

LanieB said:


> I'm so happy you're posting your story, Drerio! I had to catch up on it this morning. Your wife is absolutely beautiful!


Thank you and you too SGW, 2n, TBT, CM and CA... I am not so sure my story is that interesting. I waiver as to whether it is worth the byte space. I am not sure given what I read in other threads, it has any real meaning. 

I am grateful for my wife's love, patience and forgiveness (especially during some of the harder years). 

I have said it before and I mean it... I would die for my family. 

I see the tombstones on all the threads in the forum only after 3 - 5 pages.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Not a sprint, padawan, a marathon...as YOU pointed out! 

If the purpose is to tell your story, honor your wife and extended family, and show a true portrayal of the ups/downs of a long-term relationship and life in general, then it's DEFINITELY worth the byte space.

If the purpose is to have the MOST POPULAR thread at TAM, you'd be better served with a spit/swallow thread.

It has "REAL MEANING" if it has real meaning to YOU. And to your BUDDIES (who are all here reading, enjoying, and telling you we would like more when you get the chance). And to potential future readers who are newlyweds or trying to rekindle or resurrect marriage that has gone off the tracks.

It does not have "REAL MEANING" to people who are miserable and would like company, or who view others' marital woes as a spectator sport! That doesn't seem like a great loss to me!

...just my opinion (of which I have MANY  )


ETA: Sometimes it is EASIER to say you will 'die' for your family than to say you will 'LIVE' for them! Glad you made the choice you did last month! You have chosen to live, TRULY LIVE, in the moment!

.


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## Ikaika

thank you SGW, I understand. You are right, I am too old to worry about a popularity contest. I guess I was just looking and wondering if it made any difference. 

It does to me... If it does help anyone else, as I hope a small part can, all the better.


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## TBT

drerio said:


> I am not sure given what I read in other threads, it has any real meaning.
> 
> 
> I see the tombstones on all the threads in the forum only after 3 - 5 pages.


I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence,but just remember that for every person posting there are many more looking on.People need to see that after the honeymoon phase, comes the real meat and potatoes of a marriage;the problems faced,how they're overcome and that they can be overcome.

You have a marriage that works.Someone will come on here,I have no doubt and though you may never know it,read this and leave with some renewed hope that they can find the way themselves.So worth the effort in my humble opinion.


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## Ikaika

Thank you TBT... I was referring the tombstone of threads in the "successful long term marriage" thread. But, you and SGW are right. This is definitely not a popularity contest. Nor is this an example of perfection. 

I don't have a perfect marriage, but I would call it successful in my mind. I can say after all this time I am still madly in-love with my wife. Maybe not the same love (more infatuation in the beginning) as when we first met or got married, but a love that runs very deep. 

After interviewing my wife she has said the same, she is still in-love with me. I asked that question and I was ready to cry... I did cry but more for the right reasons. I promise I will continue my story either tomorrow or Tuesday.


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## 2ntnuf

Nothing is perfect. Success is the love you describe. Success is the devotion to your wife and family. Success is working through, around or over the challenges of living, and doing it together. Perfection would be boring. It's good to read about couples working together toward the same goal. It's good to know that it is possible. It's good to read the gratitude with which you look at your wife and children. I think that is something for all to make note of. Thank you for continuing to share your life, drerio.


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## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> Nothing is perfect. Success is the love you describe. Success is the devotion to your wife and family. Success is working through, around or over the challenges of living, and doing it together. Perfection would be boring. It's good to read about couples working together toward the same goal. It's good to know that it is possible. It's good to read the gratitude with which you look at your wife and children. I think that is something for all to make note of. Thank you for continuing to share your life, drerio.


Thank you


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## SimplyAmorous

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> If the purpose is to tell your story, honor your wife and extended family, and show a true portrayal of the ups/downs of a long-term relationship and life in general, then it's DEFINITELY worth the byte space.
> 
> *If the purpose is to have the MOST POPULAR thread at TAM, you'd be better served with a spit/swallow thread*.


 This is so very true, some of the threads I see take off here...I just shake my head.... 

SGW is so right on... in her words.......it's in the portrayal of the human ups & downs on this Marital Train that can derail at times....and that hard work/ discipline/ resolve to keep giving ...forgiving....as you get the wheels back on track....this others can *relate* to...such stories are inspiring ...it speaks something to them as hope can be found in the ashes. ..

...Ya know I have entertained putting our Love story in this section...What stops me is this >> It would come off like too much of a Fairy Tale. 

For us...Our most difficult times was *BEFORE WE MET*....I've have more tears







, anger, feeling alone & unwanted ...from age 9 to 15 than I have in 31 yrs with this man by my side....he's forever been my daily sunshine.... 

Very few could relate to our struggles (Secondary Infertility, Men who love so much they are passive to their own needs (only in the bedroom).....I can't say our wheels ever left the track...even in my tears over feeling I'll never realize the family we have today...he still made it all so bearable..... Even when we fought, it was over in a few hours...couldn't ask for more.... ...then we found a renewed passion in Mid life - my focus off all those arrows we were blessed with...and solely onto HIM..... 

Too much of this ... will bring out this response in others >> ...as it needs more DRAMA somehow....

So just keep it Real Drerio...I think the rule goes something like this....the further you fall away...hitting those gutters in life...those Prodigal son journeys (or wayward husbands)....generally the more depth to your story....having experienced both sides....this is what life is all about. 
...and have a great Family Sunday...


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## diwali123

Thanks for posting this Drerio. I really enjoy reading about your story. 
I wish that I were able to post about a long marriage journey and I'm jealous of people who can. You are lucky.


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> Thanks for posting this Drerio. I really enjoy reading about your story.
> I wish that I were able to post about a long marriage journey and I'm jealous of people who can. You are lucky.


Thank you.


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## Ikaika

Getting ready to go to my youngest son's flag football game. Then a bbq/pot luck after the game. Later this evening, to the beach so our dog can run and play. 

So yes my wife goes a little overboard. 10 kids on the team and their parents. You would think we were feeding the troops. But, I love her for her dedication.

Spam and hot dog musubi










Healthy, but tasty, Chocolate Chip cookies










Individually packed baked tortilla chips










Salsa to go with it. 










Cut up watermelon


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## Ikaika

I forgot, corn to be grilled


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## SimplyAmorous

Sounds like a whole lotta good food & fun for the kids...Your wife goes all out :smthumbup:... Even the dog gets to enjoy the beach !


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## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> Sounds like a whole lotta good food & fun for the kids...Your wife goes all out :smthumbup:... Even the dog gets to enjoy the beach !


She does... although, a little change in plans. Dog gets to go to the beach tomorrow. Later this afternoon before dinner we are going to put flowers on "grandpas" (FIL) grave. He too was a veteran.


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## Coffee Amore

That's part of the local culture too, isn't it drerio? You can't show up to these games (or parties) with just chips and sandwiches. Unless people can't have thirds, it's not really a meal.
Your wife definitely made a feast for everyone.


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## FormerSelf

The SPAM reminds when when I lived on Guam....


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## dsGrazzl3D

drerio said:


> I am not sure this story is very interesting. I think most people that come to TAM and stay here would rather get juicy gossip rather than my boring dribble. After all if reality TV were real, no one would watch.
> 
> I have more to say, just not sure anyone really cares.


Ummm..... Look at Seinfield, or Everybody Loves Raymond. I TOTALLY Dissagree with you. I'm in similar situation. I'm motivated to start similar thread in SXnMrg section though as I've got a few issues still yet resolved, but looking up.

Thank you for your story here.


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## Ikaika

Went to visit FIL's final resting place


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> That's part of the local culture too, isn't it drerio? You can't show up to these games (or parties) with just chips and sandwiches. Unless people can't have thirds, it's not really a meal.
> Your wife definitely made a feast for everyone.


This is true... typical outing at the beach or with your son's sports team when there is a pot luck is no small affair. Food made for 50 when only 20 are there. 

Today was a good day. Our son's flag football team won 21 - 7. My son scored a touchdown on a long pass. We went to pay our respects to "grandpa" (FIL).


----------



## Ikaika

My oldest son, wife, dog and myself went for a hike just down the street from our house. At the end of the trail, two old WWII bunkers. One with a panoramic view of the Windward side of O'ahu
































































As you can see some people have no respect and the bunkers are full of opala (rubbish) and graffiti. 



















Part way along the trail you can get a clear view of coconut island (Gilligan's Island from the old sitcom)


----------



## Ikaika

I will continue our story tomorrow picking up year 2003... a lot happen that year, some just personal, some did affect our marriage. I think it is time however to address those things we do that irritates each other. But, more importantly how we deal with them. 

What I do that irritates Keiko: Great example was like today. We went hiking and typical me, I walked way ahead of my wife and son on the way up to the bunkers. She gets irritated when I just walk too far ahead as if I am in a rush all the time. Her mechanism to deal with it, is to let me know about it right away (verbally). I normally will register it at that moment and try to be conscious about it. She says I procrastinate on some things (not fix it items, paperwork item) and she essentially feels like she just needs to do it if I don't. I have missed deadlines to register the boys in activities for that reason. In this case she just tells me I need to the one to let the boys know what they will not be doing.  She admits that I have been getting better. She says there is more, but most things she says is too small to worry about. It is true she could just do it rather than ask me, but these are usually things I say I will do. I could use the excuse that life got busy, but we have talked and I know I need to be more conscious about just doing it right away. 

What Keiko does that irritates me: She opens kitchen cabinets and does not close them... 'bonk' my head hurts. Sometimes I say something other times I will just close them as soon as I go to the kitchen (still irritates me but not a deal breaker). In her attempt to not clog the shower drain with her hair she flicks her hair out onto the bathroom floor. We clean the bathroom on Saturdays. That means I get to stare at her hair on the floor throughout the week. After she takes a shower the floor is full of her hair and water. My remedy, I let her clean the master bathroom every week. I tell her I will clean other parts of the house, but the bathroom is hers. 

All in all we live with it. It does cause fights from time to time but never so much that it would cause us to question our marriage or withhold intimacy. Our marriage is not perfect, but we survive. We both laughed about this as I interviewed her. Her response to what irritates her "Where do you want me to start?" I set the grounds rules... two items only


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## LanieB

I love your story, Drerio! It's so sweet. And it is amazing how you and your wife are not only in love, but so respectful of each other. 

Also, your pictures are so beautiful!! I wish I lived somewhere pretty too!


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## Ikaika

LanieB said:


> I love your story, Drerio! It's so sweet. And it is amazing how you and your wife are not only in love, but so respectful of each other.
> 
> Also, your pictures are so beautiful!! I wish I lived somewhere pretty too!


thank you


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## Ikaika

The real romance comes this Friday... my wife drives me to my colonoscopy on Friday and I drive her to her colonoscopy on Monday. Feel free to let the jokes flow


----------



## TBT

drerio said:


> The real romance comes this Friday... my wife drives me to my colonoscopy on Friday and I drive her to her colonoscopy on Monday. Feel free to let the jokes flow


:rofl: Sorry d.but the way you presented that was so funny. I don't envy you,but isn't there a song with the line "what we did for love"? Seriously though,I hope this isn't out of immediate necessity for either one of you.


----------



## Ikaika

TBT said:


> :rofl: Sorry d.but the way you presented that was so funny. I don't envy you,but isn't there a song with the line "what we did for love"? Seriously though,I hope this isn't out of immediate necessity for either one of you.


No, just routine screening for us old folks.


----------



## Lyris

I do that thing with the cupboard doors too! 

*swoon* at Gilligan's Island. I think I assumed that was all filmed in a studio.


----------



## Ikaika

Lyris said:


> I do that thing with the cupboard doors too!
> 
> *swoon* at Gilligan's Island. I think I assumed that was all filmed in a studio.


Parts were filmed there parts were filmed in a studio. The island now is a reef research center.


----------



## Ikaika

Lyris said:


> I do that thing with the cupboard doors too!
> 
> *swoon* at Gilligan's Island. I think I assumed that was all filmed in a studio.


oh and my wife read your comment... "see other people are like us... our story is boring we should stop". 

I told her when people stop reading, and I will know... I will stop. I do agree, we are not that unique and pretty boring


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## Lyris

Tell her, wow, other people as fascinating as Lyris are like us! We should keep telling our story forever.


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## LoriC

drerio said:


> The real romance comes this Friday... my wife drives me to my colonoscopy on Friday and I drive her to her colonoscopy on Monday. Feel free to let the jokes flow


I've been in the medical field for years. Yes my boss is a GI doc. We have spouses come on the same day for their colonoscopies. Of course they have someone else drive them. Just another romantic day in the world of Gastroenterology for me.


----------



## Northern Monkey

Drerio its far from boring.

My marriage and now separation followed the pattern of my earlier life.

Reading more and more tales of woe like my own is what is boring. Yours is the first new thread I have started following for a while.

Why? Because I have a huge amount of respect for you and because this story is exactly what I find interesting.

So a cupboard door open isn't the big drama we see in other threads? You know what though, I am convinced cupboard doors got left open in their tales too. Only they didn't deal with them until they escalated into bigger things.

A bad marriage can be death by a thousand papercuts. If I can take away from your story how to deal with an individual papercut there and then, you will have my gratitude.

I'm glad you're continuing your tale.


----------



## 2ntnuf

My ex had a problem with her hair falling out. She was always worried about what I thought. I told her, "If it gets that bad, get a wig. I'd still love you." 

The trouble is, she would take a huge wad of hair and leave it on the inside front corner of the tub after taking a shower. I would let it go. Sometimes I picked it up and threw it away. It all depended on my mood and how much of a hurry I thought I was in. I really hated it when it stayed there for more than a couple days. 

I would just ask her if she would please throw it in the garbage can. I would do that with mine. Over time, I grew bitter and left mine there as well. It's sad and I'm not proud of that. I just got tired of asking after 5 years or so. She didn't do it in the beginning. I never understood what changed?

It wasn't a dealbreaker, just unnecessary added stress. It could easily have been fixed. Little things like that can build over time. They slowly ruin the relationship, chipping away at it piece by piece. 

I'm enjoying reading and I think it will be interesting to hear a couple of things that you and your wife have dealt with. 

Thank you.


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## LanieB

Northern Monkey said:


> *A bad marriage can be death by a thousand papercuts.*


THAT is an awesome statement, NM!! And so, so true.


----------



## CharlieParker

drerio said:


> Spam and hot dog musubi


I had to google that, as if HI wasn't cool enough.


----------



## CharlieParker

drerio said:


> other times I will just close them as soon as I go to the kitchen (still irritates me but not a deal breaker).


Letting go of the little things is what we call it. It sounds so simple but is in fact so very important. Building resentment over little things is a killer and just plain dumb. I ain't the brightest, it took about 15 years to figure that out but has made a huge difference.

d, thanks for posting.


----------



## Thound

drerio said:


> Thought I would share this before I continue my story. Also I plan on interviewing my wife this weekend with recorder in hand. I know it is going to be tough to here some answers but I want her voice to be heard as well.
> 
> Last day of school for my kiddos. My oldest (autistic) son apparently painted a self portrait of himself as a requirement for a grade. He did not want to bring it home. And, when I put it in the car, he wanted to destroy it. I have to hide it from him:


Wow! I'm not an art guy, but I do recognize talent, and that young man has tons of talent!


----------



## Ikaika

LoriC said:


> I've been in the medical field for years. Yes my boss is a GI doc. We have spouses come on the same day for their colonoscopies. Of course they have someone else drive them. Just another romantic day in the world of Gastroenterology for me.


So much better if both get the medical ruffy at the same time


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## Ikaika

NM, 2n and Charlie, that is just it.. no sense in allowing those little "paper cuts" which can heel so quickly; "I can just do it myself" is easier than letting it ruin the bigger picture. 

When I see the little things (we listed two) that annoy me in point of view of the bigger things that she "does and is", great mom, great wife, dependable, faithful, committed, etc... what would be the point of letting those things grind away at our marriage. That was the reason for including this into our journey. 

As I said in the beginning any time two people with their faults and idiosyncratic ways decide to live their lives together, things will come up. We communicate with each and also decide what is important and what is not. 

Thank you all for allowing me to bore you.


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## Ikaika

CharlieParker said:


> I had to google that, as if HI wasn't cool enough.


Question is, if you came to visit would you eat it


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## Ikaika

Thound said:


> Wow! I'm not an art guy, but I do recognize talent, and that young man has tons of talent!


thank you.


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## LovesHerMan

Why do you think that your story is boring? So many people assume that being in love is all that is required to stay married, but they do not have a clue about how to do it.

While your story may be common, it is not boring. Each marriage is different, and we are all here to learn about how ornery, selfish, prideful, strong-willed humans manage to live together, overcome the power struggles, and still want to be intimate and vulnerable with each other.

Thank you for sharing your beautiful love story with us.


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## CharlieParker

drerio said:


> Question is, if you came to visit would you eat it


Oh yes, but only if it's homemade.


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## Ikaika

lovesherman said:


> Why do you think that your story is boring? So many people assume that being in love is all that is required to stay married, but they do not have a clue about how to do it.
> 
> While your story may be common, it is not boring. Each marriage is different, and we are all here to learn about how ornery, selfish, prideful, strong-willed humans manage to live together, overcome the power struggles, and still want to be intimate and vulnerable with each other.
> 
> Thank you for sharing your beautiful love story with us.


My wife's response, AMEN... she agrees with this 100%


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## Ikaika

A short follow up to what irritates us:

My wife reminded me about those little paper cuts and how they can easily creep into fights. In other words as you guess we try to address the little annoyances as quickly or in ways that does not build up a score card.

Yes, early in our marriage when we had fights, the score card would come out on both sides. Meaning we would each bring up totally unrelated annoying facts about the other just to win the fight. 

We try to keep the score card(s) out of fights now and stick to the important idea(s) of the argument.


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## 2ntnuf

So, drerio, did you and your wife overlook things? Did you talk about those small things? Did you both just take it upon yourselves to "clean up" after the other? Did you make lists of each others responsibilities and stick to them? What/how did you do what needed to be done? How did you move forward to the more important issues?


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## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> So, drerio, did you and your wife overlook things? Did you talk about those small things? Did you both just take it upon yourselves to "clean up" after the other? Did you make lists of each others responsibilities and stick to them? What/how did you do what needed to be done? How did you move forward to the more important issues?


We overlook things that we consider easy to deal with, that is it takes less time for me to close a cupboard door than to look for my wife to tell her to close it. The idea of picking your battles is what comes to mind. 

We have talked about the cleaning duties. Often on the weekends when it is time to clean up, it also is a matter of just understanding efficiency. If my wife goes upstairs to start cleaning, I will just stay downstairs and start there. One thing we do as a practice (as I may have mentioned before) is that if I cook she cleans the kitchen and vis versa. If we both share in the cooking we both share in the clean up. So some list are just logical, but yes we have communicated about each other responsibilities. 

On yet another note as our sons are getting older, we are expecting them to pull more of their weight and do clean up. 

On think on the last question, I will try to answer as I continue this "boring" look at our lives. Those issues have and will come up and I will address our struggles and possible solutions. Some have worked well others continue to be a work in progress.


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## 2ntnuf

Thanks, drerio. I know it was a concern in my marriage. Little things kept adding on to the list. I talked with her about it and suggested a list of some sort because she would do the cleaning mostly when I was at work. I told her we should make a list so I could do more and she wouldn't feel slighted. In other words, I understood. She poo-pooed the idea of a list. It was another nail in the coffin. Communication, compromise and more compromise and communication................That's what I was trying to do. I never saw an issue with a list. I guess she did.


----------



## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> Thanks, drerio. I know it was a concern in my marriage. Little things kept adding on to the list. I talked with her about it and suggested a list of some sort because she would do the cleaning mostly when I was at work. I told her we should make a list so I could do more and she wouldn't feel slighted. In other words, I understood. She poo-pooed the idea of a list. It was another nail in the coffin. Communication, compromise and more compromise and communication................That's what I was trying to do. I never saw an issue with a list. I guess she did.


I hear where you are coming to... a matter of agreeing on ground rules and a list can be an important issue, whether spoken or unspoken. I just think it is important that a couple be careful with keeping these as score cards and bring them up when totally unrelated. We have not always been perfect, but that is why this is a journey and not a final chapter. 

Our journey works for us, it may not be what works for everyone. Thank you for opening up your painful past. And, feel free to share. My intention is to help someone else, and by no means do we have all the answers.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Yeah, if there's a list, it can be used as a score card. If you don't use one, you can't be certain where you stand, you can always be behind the eight ball. It's a matter of just do it and forget it, but do it for yourself. Thank you. I appreciate you addressing my question. I think you have opened my eyes more about how to have a better relationship. Little things can become huge problems if not put behind us.


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## RoseAglow

drerio, thanks so much for putting up this thread! My DH have only been married a few years; I am very interested in you and your wife's story! I think it is awesome.


----------



## Ikaika

2003 was a year of personal and family trials. A month or so following our oldest son’s third birthday, almost over night he nearly went mute on us. His behaviors seemed to have regressed to younger age, than his young 3-years of age. What vocalization he did was repetitive echolalia. Kenji also started to react in peculiar ways to auditory stimuli. You may expect a 1 year old to cry at his birthday party when everyone is singing “happy birthday” but at three this behavior should be gone. Not for Kenji. After his third birthday party, his presents sat for nearly four months up-opened. He refused to open them and he cried if we tried to open them for him. My SIL and MIL recognized something different about Kenji nearly six months prior, but we assumed it was just immaturity. Finally my wife took time off from her business and enrolled in an early education program with him. The teachers recognized right away that Kenji had some serious socialization issues. He refused to join on circle time even with my wife. Exacerbated, we took him to a Pediatric Neurologist, February 2003, and within 10 minutes of our visit he was diagnosed with autism. My wife and I were stunned. You have so much hope and expectations for your children and to be told that your child will have a lifetime of limitations is hard to swallow. It is hard enough when you come to a marriage with your own thoughts and cultural beliefs on how to raise a child, add a disability and it makes the complications that much greater. 

Side note: for any young couple reading, I would like to lend caution that you build a strong relationship with your spouse prior to having children. Discuss prior to having that young one about your expectations and raising this precious life. Leave no stone unturned, religion, schooling, etc. Being proactive will make this journey a little smoother (never smooth, but a little is better than nothing). Raising a child to become an adult will test your patience and can have the tendency to divert your attention in the early years. By this, I mean moving your focus away from your spouse to this new life. It can leave you drained and your spouse feeling neglected. It does not have to be that way. If you can live close to trusted family members this will pay dividends or making trusted friends can be nearly as beneficial. You need to take advantage to allow grandma, aunty or a trusted friend to watch your child if even for a couple of hours so you can be a couple again. It is too important. It is too important for you and for your child. 

In March 2003 Kenji was enrolled in an early intervention program in the Public School system in our state. And, thus began his many years in a Fully Self Contained Classroom setting. I watched how it affected my wife. As a professional (Speech and Language Pathologist), she felt ashamed. As a mom she felt guilt. I felt guilty. We both wondered “what did we do wrong?” “What could we have done to prevent this?” We know a lot of other parents went through the same, so this was not unique. But, doing so also tested our marriage. We had a lot of anger in those early years, not toward each other but it seemed to put a strain on our relationship. And, we knew the statistics were against us: “While the national divorce/separation rate for first marriages hovers at 40 to 50 percent, divorce rates for parents of children with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) specifically, is said to be as high as 80 percent. Eighty percent!” I know why this is the case... it can drain you daily. The energy level has be that much greater. Planning aspect of every event in life, anticipating every meltdown, understanding challenges for your child are always going to be 10 fold greater. This can also draw a lot of attention away from your spouse and from younger sibling(s). It does. And, yet more guilt. Personally it gave us great challenges and continues to but not as much as it did in the beginning. Neither of us spoke of divorce, but it created some deep riffs at times. There were times when I recall sleeping on the couch for one whole week. When I reflect back I think how immature of me. At one point, during that year we both concluded that for Kenji to have any chance, we needed to have a stronger marriage. We began to take advantage of our in-laws and reconnected as a couple. We needed to rekindle and re-ignite our love and commitment. It was awkward at first, but like anything the more you practice the better you will get. You just need to start. 

Toward the end of that year, my parents as they got older wanted to reconnect with me. I was a bit uncomfortable to find out that they decided to sell their house on Kauai to move within a mile of us. My father was showing early signs of dementia and wanted to make amends for all those years growing up under his roof. My mother wanted to connect with her grandchildren. We slowly allowed them into our lives. However, December 2003, my mother suffered a major stroke, hemiplegic on the left side and wheel chair bound. So now my parents pretty much had to change their plans of how they were going to relate to me an my young family given their own challenges. And, they made demands and challenges on us for help. 

To be continued.... Just tell me when you want me to stop. I will not be offended.


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## Ikaika

RoseAglow said:


> drerio, thanks so much for putting up this thread! My DH have only been married a few years; I am very interested in you and your wife's story! I think it is awesome.


you are welcome. I hope you can take a little from it... Not every experience will fit yours, but maybe there is a little something. 

Take Care


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## Anonymous07

"And, we knew the statistics were against us: “While the national divorce/separation rate for first marriages hovers at 40 to 50 percent, divorce rates for parents of children with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) specifically, is said to be as high as 80 percent. Eighty percent!” I know why this is the case... it can drain you daily."

The strain of having a child with any medical condition puts a lot of strain on relationships. I know my parents struggled with me, going to the hospital each year for all of my surgeries. I saw this "letter" as an adult and wish my parents could have seen it when I was a child, but I'll share it here:

Welcome to Holland

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm hoping my husband and I can learn how to be a better couple and improve our marriage.


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## Ikaika

Anonymous07 said:


> "And, we knew the statistics were against us: “While the national divorce/separation rate for first marriages hovers at 40 to 50 percent, divorce rates for parents of children with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) specifically, is said to be as high as 80 percent. Eighty percent!” I know why this is the case... it can drain you daily."
> 
> The strain of having a child with any medical condition puts a lot of strain on relationships. I know my parents struggled with me, going to the hospital each year for all of my surgeries. I saw this "letter" as an adult and wish my parents could have seen it when I was a child, but I'll share it here:
> 
> Welcome to Holland
> 
> Thank you for sharing your story. I'm hoping my husband and I can learn how to be a better couple and improve our marriage.


Thank you A07, that is a beautiful letter and so true.


----------



## Coffee Amore

You need to stop asking us to tell you to stop if it's boring. It's not boring at all! Next time you ask I'm going to make fun of you in the Inappropriate Jokes thread so consider yourself warned. 

I could really relate to your post about the struggles with special needs. Been there, done that and have the souvenir. 

Please keep going. I check this thread regularly.


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> You need to stop asking us to tell you to stop if it's boring. It's not boring at all! *Next time you ask I'm going to make fun of you in the Innappropriate Jokes thread so consider yourself warned.*
> 
> I could really relate to your post about the struggles with special needs. Been there, done that and have the souvenir.
> 
> Please keep going. I check this thread regularly.


point taken 

ETA: I know you spelled it correctly but had to fix it for AR's sake


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## LanieB

And THEN what happened, Drerio?! We're waiting for more story here!!


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## 2ntnuf

From the free online dictionary

cliff·hang·er (klfhngr)
n.
1. A melodramatic serial in which each episode ends in suspense.
2. A suspenseful situation occurring at the end of a chapter, scene, or episode.
3. A contest so closely matched that the outcome is uncertain until the end.


You're not dramatic at all, d.


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## Ikaika

LanieB and 2n, 

My wife asked me if I was writing a TV series... not intentional, but I guess it feels that way. Not intentional, it really has more to do with trying to put a meaningful voice to the past rather than just stating facts. 

The Kardashians we are not


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## 2ntnuf

drerio said:


> LanieB and 2n,
> 
> My wife asked me if I was writing a TV series... not intentional, but I guess it feels that way. Not intentional, it really has more to do with trying to put a meaningful voice to the past rather than just stating facts.
> 
> The Kardashians we are not


Yeah, sure, sure. :lol:


----------



## Ikaika

A little about my father and the relationship I had with him. Yes, it was complicated. Some might suggest abusive (him toward me) but I tend to look at it with a sense of complication. 

Growing up, I never starved or lived on the streets or had to go to school with dirty clothes. However, my father never hugged me. He never told me he loved me. He did tell me on occasion that I was a loser, "good for nothing", etc. On several occasions he referenced that maybe I should never have been born or that I will likely end up incarcerated. In the early years I somewhat lived up to his expectations... hanging out with people who would someday amount to very little. He, my father, was at times cruel, so I tend not to classify it as abusive. There are plenty of examples that are far worse than mine and those I would put into the abusive category. So complicated is the best way for me to characterize our relationship. I'm not going to say it has not affected me... and I am currently receiving some therapy to heal any hurts associated with this time in my life. Hopefully this too will strengthen my own marriage and help me be a better father. 

As he grew older and I think I exceeded his expectations of me (though he never said as much), he tried on several occasions to mend the hurt. I will admit that I rebuffed him more than I should have. As he moved into an advance age, he began to look more pathetic than monstrous and I started to allow him into my life. I always kept caution, but he was my father, and on that principle alone I decided to show him the respect and love he deserved. 

When he and my mom moved close to us in 2003, I was a bit taken back. I knew they wanted to simplify their life. Living on a 1/2 acre of land on a house that had survived two hurricanes was becoming too much for two elderly people to manage. They bought a townhouse close by and made an effort to connect with us (myself and my family). I allowed this to happen, though I was always cautious. I actually allowed Ryo, my youngest son, to be watched by them when Keiko and myself were at work. I took great care in wondering if Ryo would be safe there. I saw no reason after a time to suspect anything wrong or any abuse. Unfortunately for my mom this was short lived seen as she suffered a massive stroke in December of 2003. She was unable to watch my son and my father's dementia was limiting his ability to care for himself. It placed a burden on my me and my siblings (two older brothers and an older sister, I am the youngest).

To my parents good fortune, being raised during the Great Depression, they saved and had a sizable nest egg. My mother needed near round the clock care. She and my father spent time bouncing around from home care to nursing care facilities. I am grateful for my oldest Brother, John, he took the lead in ensuring that they were cared for managing their remaining years. 

My father's dementia advanced quickly, by 2005 he needed to be moved into a nursing facility that specialized in "memory care". Almost a year to the day he was moved into the facility he died, July 26, 2006. 

We held a beach memorial service for him... many of his golfing buddies and family attended. We paddled off shore on our surfboards and scattered his ashes. 

He was born Oct 16, 1924
2nd oldest of four siblings
WWII and Korean War vet
Worked for the same company for nearly 33 years
Married my mother May 17, 1948 and they were married up to his death, July 2006
Father of four children

His marriage to my mother was complicated, but it lasted the test of time.


----------



## LovesHerMan

I am struck by the contrast between your relationship with your father, and the picture of your wife lovingly tending the grave of her father. Do you know what his demons were? Did your mother try to intervene and provide the love that he could not? 

It is a great tribute to you that you have achieved so much, given that you were not encouraged and supported as a child.


----------



## Ikaika

lovesherman said:


> I am struck by the contrast between your relationship with your father, and the picture of your wife lovingly tending the grave of her father. Do you know what his demons were? Did your mother try to intervene and provide the love that he could not?
> 
> It is a great tribute to you that you have achieved so much, given that you were not encouraged and supported as a child.


We call them the greatest generation... and they are just that for all that they did and achieved. I suspect though having grown up during the Great Depression had some serious drawbacks, mentally. My grandfather was an alcoholic and who knows how he treated my father. Then my father fought in two wars. I can only imagine that only so much can be asked of an individual before they break. Understanding this made me forgive him.

My mother was the stereotypical wife of the 1950s. Obedient, submissive and not one to cross her husband. Did she provide me with love missing from my father? Some. She gave what she could to four children. I admire her for having lived the life she did with the dignity that she did it in. She wore a lot of hats and did so with that same expression and fortitude to carry on with her mission as mom and wife. I will talk more about her later.

My sister provided a lot of love to me where my mom could not. Again, more about her later as well. 

Like 2n says, I am giving my story in cliffhanger fashion.


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## LanieB

I think there are many people who can relate to the story of your parents, Drerio. I know I can - only it was my mother who let me down. And oddly enough, she also ended up dying (somewhat young) of an early-onset dementia disease, and I was responsible for her care. It was so tough to watch her go through it, and I resented having to take care of everything for her, because I had so much past resentment for how she'd treated my sister and me. Yet, watching this disease progress, watching her become more pitiful by the day . . . when that happens, you can't help but let go of all the past hurts for the most part.

What I have discovered is that sometimes the people with less than happy childhoods, somehow grow up to become amazing adults. I don't know you "IRL", but I know you by your thoughts that you write on the page, and you are one of those amazing people, Drerio.


----------



## Ikaika

LanieB said:


> I think there are many people who can relate to the story of your parents, Drerio. I know I can - only it was my mother who let me down. And oddly enough, she also ended up dying (somewhat young) of an early-onset dementia disease, and I was responsible for her care. It was so tough to watch her go through it, and I resented having to take care of everything for her, because I had so much past resentment for how she'd treated my sister and me. Yet, watching this disease progress, watching her become more pitiful by the day . . . when that happens, you can't help but let go of all the past hurts for the most part.
> 
> What I have discovered is that sometimes the people with less than happy childhoods, somehow grow up to become amazing adults. I don't know you "IRL", but I know you by your thoughts that you write on the page, and you are one of those amazing people, Drerio.


Thank you.


----------



## southern wife

Ok, I finally had some time to start reading your journey!  So far, I LOVE IT! The good times, the hard times, and all the times in between. 

I wanted to comment on a few things:

1. I love the way you love your wife and describe her. Her picture is truly beautiful and she looks like a porcelain doll, preserved in her beauty. I'm sure that's how you see her as well.

2. I really love your son's self-portrait painting. Everyone is right: that kid is a genius! I would love to have a copy of it on the wall in my office. I know that won't happen, but wanted you to know that. The colors, the shapes, the contrast...............simply amazing!

3. As for the hair on the bathroom floor, why not put a small trash can by the shower that she can toss her hair balls into? That's what I did. 

4. And the opened cabinet doors...my hubs does that, too.  Every morning when I walk into the kitchen, he'll have every cabinet door open from searching for a midnight snack. :slap: I think I'm going to just take the doors off the hinges. :rofl:


Not really, but


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## Ikaika

southern wife said:


> Ok, I finally had some time to start reading your journey!  So far, I LOVE IT! The good times, the hard times, and all the times in between.
> 
> I wanted to comment on a few things:
> 
> 1. I love the way you love your wife and describe her. Her picture is truly beautiful and she looks like a porcelain doll, preserved in her beauty. I'm sure that's how you see her as well.
> 
> 2. I really love your son's self-portrait painting. Everyone is right: that kid is a genius! I would love to have a copy of it on the wall in my office. I know that won't happen, but wanted you to know that. The colors, the shapes, the contrast...............simply amazing!
> 
> 3. As for the hair on the bathroom floor, why not put a small trash can by the shower that she can toss her hair balls into? That's what I did.
> 
> 4. And the opened cabinet doors...my hubs does that, too.  Every morning when I walk into the kitchen, he'll have every cabinet door open from searching for a midnight snack. :slap: I think I'm going to just take the doors off the hinges. :rofl:
> 
> 
> Not really, but


thank you SW, we are learning (our journey)... yes after 18 years I am still madly in love with my wife. 

I almost did take the doors off the hinges 

I have learned to live with the hair on the floor, she does clean it on Saturdays. I also remind myself I don't have to clean out the trap as often. 

Thank you for the compliment about my son's painting. I wish he could hear the comments in a positive way, but if I were to tell him what others were saying he probably would get mad. Why? I don't know.


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## southern wife

So no trash can by the shower? :scratchhead:


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## Ikaika

southern wife said:


> So no trash can by the shower? :scratchhead:


We have a trash can in the bathroom, and I request it, but if she forgets... I don't want that to be a source of a fight. I will inquire.


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## Ikaika

BTW, SW I am sure you and Mr. Southern could write a similar story someday. 

I may have to write today seen as tomorrow I will probably not want to after I get home.


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## EleGirl

Drerio, I love that you are sharing your story. TAM needs more examples of couples who have made it through the good times and the hard times as you and your beautiful wife have. You both have the type of character that pulls through. 

It is so good to hear a man speaking to lovingly about his wife. The love you describe is not the heady, ‘in-love’ infatuation that one has when they first meet. When I read of someone who says that they love their spouse by they are not ‘in-love’ with them I just want to scream. They miss the point that their love for their spouse will change from that initial infatuation to a much deeper love that keeps a marriage together. Instead they go off in search of the heady infatuation and get into an affair, looking for that high.

Another thing that really sticks out to me is that you both understand that your marriage is not an isolated entity. You two and your children are part of an extended family. This is something that seems to be lost on many today who try to live a married and family life with little to no involvement with the extended family. To me this is sad because there can be so much help and love brought into your lives this from the entire extended family.

Keep on posting, we need more of this type of threads here.


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## Ikaika

thank you EleGirl, it is hard to explain sometimes other than through my stories how much I love my wife and how are marriage continues. 

I am hoping our humble story can reach someone. Thank you again.


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## Ikaika

I had just finished submitting my grades the day before (2005) and my phones rings. It was my mom. She was able to talk after her stroke but with little to no affect, so I was still getting used to her new voice. I thought right away it must be something to do with my dad. Since they had moved to O’ahu, he twice side swiped parked cars. His advanced age and dementia clouded his judgment. The last time he did it he left the scene, but someone reported him. I had to take him to court. He was not nice to me as a kid and now I had to be the adult. But, I refused to take any revenge out on him. So, I took it all in stride. My mom on the other side of the phone asked “have you heard from Jacque (my sister)?” I am confused and respond by simply just saying “no” a pause and then I ask “should I have heard from her?” “She called us from the Emergency room at Kona Hospital” my mom tells me.

My sister, Jacque, had been living in Kona, Hawai’i for well over 15 years. Prior to that she lived for short periods of time on O’ahu, Maui and Atlantic City, New Jersey. She was the second oldest and only girl among four siblings. We were not gentle brothers so she grew up knowing she had to compete like the boys in the family. In doing so, she surpassed us in so many things: She earned a black belt in judo (I only got to purple) at a time and in a dojo where earning a belt was hard to come by. Jacque, was one of the few female big wave surfers at the time, growing up on Kauai in the late 60s and 70s. She started life as a stutterer compounded with learning difficulties, but proved us all wrong in her academic prowess. She was accepted to Cornell Law School, but opted to postpone to save up enough money. Sadly, she never reapplied. Although, she did find her passion working in the hotel industry (management). She excelled in everything she did with the competitiveness of an olympic athlete, and yet she was a tender soul deep down. She took a lot of grief from my father as the only girl. And, her relationship with mom was sometimes strained. When I reflect back, she really had it harder than me or my brothers. Jacque was my big sister, my protector at times, the one who could console and touch my spirit. And, she could command respect from the hotel staff by working harder than any of them but still being fair minded and understanding of how to get the best out of them (not just push for the most). She pushed her body; exercise was a bit of her religion. While Jacque was intense about a lot of her life, she also knew how to enjoy herself and very easy to be relaxed around. Five years after she moved to Kona, she met G, who became her long-time boy friend. We never asked about whether they would ever get married. Jacque and G both seemed happy with what looked in every way like a marriage. In 2002, she changed employment to manage several different Time-Share properties. Although she spent six-months caring for my parents after my mom’s stroke, nothing appeared to unusual.

This is the first I had heard my sister was having any medical issues and my mom tells me that Jacque called from the ER in Kona. For almost 24-hours no word, I was finding it hard to sleep. I got a call the next day, it is mom again. “Jacque was taken by medevac helicopter from Kona to Honolulu.” I stood there stunned. I called the hospital and they refused to give me any information over the phone. Later, after my wife got home, I drove down to the hospital and inquired about my sister. After I proved to the hospital that I was her brother they allowed me access. I walked into her ICU room and G was there talking with the on-call physician. I had a lot of questions but the doc is moving onto the next room. She was hooked up to a ventilator and IV. She was conscious but couldn’t talk. The first time I had ever seen my sister looking helpless. She was normally the take charge first one up the hill and she laid there making eye contact but not able to move or communicate. I had time off, so I was able to visit her every day. Days later when I was able to talk with the Neurologist they said they could not give a definitive diagnosis but she had a obvious lesion in her brain stem. She could not maintain consciousness for long periods at a time, unable to walk, swallow and breath on her own. I will say the hospital staff worked heroically and they tried a lot of different therapies. At about week four post ICU, I was scheduled to go on a road trip to do some research at Washington University in St. Louis, MO. The day I left my sister appeared to be doing better. They had her up walking using a walker. I felt better about leaving. I called everyday and my brother and other relatives said very little. My wife and boys picked me up at the airport and we went straight to the hospital. My sister looked progressively worse. She could not even make eye contact. I was angry and upset. I felt helpless. None of this really had a major affect on my marriage other than I was moodier than usual but my wife was gracious through it all. 

I was back at work in the lab but every evening and every weekend I was there in my sister’s ICU room. I would hold her hand talk to her and sometimes sing to her. I cried a lot, but always just treated her as if she could hear, feel and see me. She was totally unconscious at this point. What really throw me was suddenly G went from being there to completely absent. G, owned his own restaurant in Kona, but did not need to be there full time. He had a good manager in charge. He also had a friend on O’ahu who allowed him to stay there as long as needed. But, G was absent. I called him on the phone to inquire about why he was not with my sister. He told me “what is the point she is unconscious all the time, I am told she can’t see, hear or feel me.” I thought WTF, you are practically married to her and you abandon her now? Really? It wasn’t just me, it was my brothers, relatives, and friends who were scratching their heads in anger. To make matters worse G had the primary Power of Attorney over both her health and financial decisions. I had secondary on her health and my oldest brother on her financial affairs. At the end of week six, the head physician wanted a meeting with us, but required by law G had to be present. We set up the meeting G was there. The lead physician essentially told us they could not do anything more for my sister and we had to think about getting her affairs in order. 

At 8am the morning of July 6th 2005, we were all there except G. We all looked at each other including the physician and he, the physician asked if we knew where G was or if we had heard from him. No one had any contact in the week since the meeting. The hospital called his (G’s) phone, he answered and immediately hung up. This happened three more times. At that point they were legally able to ask me as the secondary as to the decision to take my sister off of life support. It was the hardest decision I ever had to make. I said yes, with tears rolling down my cheeks. I did not want to see my sister die, but she really was not there anymore. I still remember the moment they removed the ventilator. I held my sisters hand tight and talked to her in a broken soothing voice (I was crying). Her body bucked and she fought to breath. Soon the life of my sister was gone. I looked over at my father and wanted to tell him it was his fault, but he looked lost and pathetic. Anyway, I knew it was not his fault. I had so many emotions raging through my body. What I took away from this experience was what that phrase meant. The one some of us say in our marriage vows. I said and some of you said it - “in sickness and in health, till death do us part.” G may not have been married to Jacque, but he practically was and was not there for her in her sickness and death. Why? I don’t know. I came home to hug my wife and realized that the phrase gave me so much more meaning than just those passive words we say because we are infatuated with our groom or bride. 

In the final epilogue, G never showed up to her funeral service. A few weeks later family and friends convened at a hotel in Kona for a beautiful ceremony. The conclusion of which my two brothers and I paddled an outrigger canoe offshore with her ashes, flower petals, a bottle of her favorite wine and some Kona coffee beans. I threw the petals into the air as the Kahuna (priestess) chanted from shore and my brothers scattered her ashes. We said our final goodbye, poured the wine and coffee beans into the water. Aloha Jacque. I love you always my big sister.


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## Ikaika

Jacque

Born Nov 14, 1956
Died July 6, 2005


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

drerio said:


> *The Kardashians we are not*


...I dunno! We've seen your naked arse....you might be Kim! 










:rofl:

.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Really LOVE the pix of Jacque!


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Really LOVE the pix of Jacque!


Sorry my story is a bit long-winded.


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## Lyris

She is so beautiful, Drerio. Amazing eyes.


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## Coffee Amore

drerio said:


> Sorry my story is a bit long-winded.


Oh no you didn't go there again....stop apologizing. :nono: But we will excuse you since being without food for so many days must have made you lightheaded or something.


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## Anon Pink

drerio said:


> Thought I would share this before I continue my story. Also I plan on interviewing my wife this weekend with recorder in hand. I know it is going to be tough to here some answers but I want her voice to be heard as well.
> 
> Last day of school for my kiddos. My oldest (autistic) son apparently painted a self portrait of himself as a requirement for a grade. He did not want to bring it home. And, when I put it in the car, he wanted to destroy it. I have to hide it from him:


I'm getting caught up on your thread but had to stop with this and say OMG WOW! That is excellent work!


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## Anon Pink

Oh Dreio, I'm so sorry about your beautiful sister! I know the gut wrenching pain of caring for a sibling and watching them die. I know the pain of caring for a formerly abusive parent with dementia. Your thread parallels several things with my life... Except I still drink once a week!

My brother's oldest son reacted much like your sisters BF, G, did. It is terribly upsetting and perplexing how some people are so compelled to just stick their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. I know it happens, but I just can't how this could possibly work for them, it only creates more hurt and guilt.

My mother has had dementia for the past 6 years, physically, she is perfectly fine but mentally she is 70% delusional now. It's so draining. I'm glad you've been able to make peace with the past.

It doesn't seem appropriate to say I'm enjoying your story, but I am interested. How has your wife supported you through these trying family times? How have you been able to split your focus away from that pain and rejuvenate with your wife?


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## Ikaika

Anon Pink said:


> Oh Dreio, I'm so sorry about your beautiful sister! I know the gut wrenching pain of caring for a sibling and watching them die. I know the pain of caring for a formerly abusive parent with dementia. Your thread parallels several things with my life... Except I still drink once a week!
> 
> My brother's oldest son reacted much like your sisters BF, G, did. It is terribly upsetting and perplexing how some people are so compelled to just stick their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. I know it happens, but I just can't how this could possibly work for them, it only creates more hurt and guilt.
> 
> My mother has had dementia for the past 6 years, physically, she is perfectly fine but mentally she is 70% delusional now. It's so draining. I'm glad you've been able to make peace with the past.
> 
> It doesn't seem appropriate to say I'm enjoying your story, but I am interested. How has your wife supported you through these trying family times? How have you been able to split your focus away from that pain and rejuvenate with your wife?


It is Ok to say you enjoy our story, even under the circumstances. I do thank you for your support and comment of my thread. 

To answer your questions: My wife was very supportive during that time. It also made me appreciate my wife more; realizing how fragile life can be. I feel through all these major events we both made the conscious choice to draw closer rather than it creating rifts. It is too easy to withdraw, but we were determined that it was important to stay strong. 

I am sorry to hear about your mother. I know how difficult it can be to care for our parents when their mental state diminishes. I also understand the sundowning affect that happens about 5pm, and can relate to how the draining moments can come in waves and sometimes not always at the most convenient time... I hope you can find some respite time. Take Care. Aloha. 

Our motivation really is to give others (especially younger couples), encouragement and hope in their marriage. It can be done, regardless of what life brings your way. Ours is not that out of the ordinary or as difficult as most. So by all means you can enjoy the story for its long term effects: My wife and I love each other very much and work toward strengthening our marriage, I hope that can be enjoyed.


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## CharlieParker

I had to think of you (I hope his comment is not out of place here) this morning when I noticed we both keep the cabinets open, doesn't seem to bother us. For other things we do have a saying "it's OK, it my OCD, not yours", or the other way around. Like when I have to rearrange the dishwasher she just loaded, it's a way of saying she didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't be offended. We have tons of little ticks or habits that could drive each other nuts, the saying is a way to laugh about them and not take them too seriously. We say it a lot.


(I'm not taking away from people with real OCD, but is what we call it).


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## LoriC

CharlieParker said:


> I had to think of you (I hope his comment is not out of place here) this morning when I noticed we both keep the cabinets open, doesn't seem to bother us. For other things we do have a saying "it's OK, it my OCD, not yours", or the other way around. Like when I have to rearrange the dishwasher she just loaded, it's a way of saying she didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't be offended. We have tons of little ticks or habits that could drive each other nuts, the saying is a way to laugh about them and not take them too seriously. We say it a lot.
> 
> 
> (I'm not taking away from people with real OCD, but is what we call it).


That's funny Charlie every time I load the dishwasher, my husband also comes and rearranges the whole thing. In no way does this offend me. My 18 and 21-year-old boys leave the cabinets open and it drives me nuts, I am a little OCD!


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## Ikaika

As for the dishwasher, that is our oldest son's job to load and unload. Does he do it correctly? He does pretty good at it. The thing with some ASD children, you teach them right the first time and they can memorize the arrangement. He does not do well, if he has to envision a novel situation, that is we have used some pots, pans and or dishes that does not fit some memorized scheme. Unfortunately, he gets frustrated and tantrums. At that point, one of us has to help guide him.


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## Coffee Amore

drerio - I like the new avatar. It's a Hawaiian...er...tool of some kind? Hopefully, they didn't use something like that during your colon procedure.


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> drerio - I like the new avatar. It's a Hawaiian...er...tool of some kind? Hopefully, they didn't use something like that during your colon procedure.


ouch!!! my wife gets her colon probed on Monday  So romantic when you reach your 50s.


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## Ikaika

tomorrow evening HST, I will continue our journey


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## Affaircare




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## Ikaika

Affaircare said:


>


My wife saw this pic and she rolled her eyes at me (not you)... She thinks I am a bit of a drama king 

All true stuff, I just don't want it to be Uncle Ed showing his 35mm slides of their latest vacation.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

...all depends on how INTERESTING and ENTERTAINING Uncle Ed is!

You're very interesting...and apparently your former students think so, too, cuz I've read some of their reviews on those 'rate your teacher' sites (I'm nosey like that!). They think you're INTERESTING and good at EXPLANATIONS!

...so I'm with CoffeeAmore, NO MORE APOLOGIES. Or we'll ask K to please "Gibbs-slap" you for US! *wink*

ETA: oops....that whole 'reading the reviews' things should have probably been hidden in the TAM confessions thread which moves so quickly no-one would have seen it!


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## Affaircare

See, I've always found Uncle Ed rather interesting because I can experience the vacation vicariously through the slides. 

Then again, I also own a tin foil hat and do not read romantic novels, so I'm somewhat "odd"


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## Ikaika

Affaircare said:


> See, I've always found Uncle Ed rather interesting because I can experience the vacation vicariously through the slides.
> 
> Then again, I also own a tin foil hat and do not read romantic novels, so I'm somewhat "odd"


thank you for your vote of confidence

Sincerely, 

Uncle Ed


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## Coffee Amore

Well better Uncle Ed than Mr. Ed!


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## Ikaika

I need to take a really long long long break from TAM... I will leave my incomplete story up for now. I guess I knew all along that TAM really was not a place for me. I always felt out of place and recently too many threads have helped to convince me. But, this one really did it for me.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/showpost.php?p=2273602


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## Northern Monkey

That's a massive shame D.

I've always enjoyed your posts and despite my shambolic marriage, have loved your story. It's an inspiration to me that it can be done.

Personally i'd love you to reconsider but you have to do what's best for you.

Respect and best wishes.


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## Dollystanford

I don't think you should allow one post by one person to stop you sharing your story

Far more people have been positively affected by hearing about a success


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## 2ntnuf

When someone's whole world crashes down around them and there is little visible hope, they can become so cynical that they are not able to see anything as possible. You cannot convince everyone. Ultimately, your story will be misunderstood or misrepresented by some. If you can, write for yourself and rest in the hope that others may gain something from it.


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## LanieB

Stop that, Drerio! So one new poster can bring your thread to a crashing halt? What about the rest of us? Don't we count?


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## SomedayDig

D...people can't see past their own noses to know any f'ng better, brah.

Have some tea, center yourself and shake that chump comment off.

Aloha!


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## RoseAglow

I just caught up, am in tears reading a about your dad and your sister. 

Please re-consider! One of the things I love about you and your wife's story is that you got past the times of arguments and discontent between you. You got past periods of too much drinking and nights sleeping on the couch. In other words, you aren't posting a "picture perfect" marriage! But you guys stick together and are happy! 

My gosh, what would "talking about marriage" be without discussions of folks who are making it work? I think you DEFINITELY belong here! We need your side of the conversation, IMHO.


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## CharlieParker

drerio said:


> I need to take a really long long long break from TAM... I will leave my incomplete story up *for now*.


We all know about long breaks, they are needed. 

The "for now" part has me a bit concerned. Look at the stats, thread counts LTSIM - 275, CWI - 10,016. Your story is needed here. You've inspired me to write something up, just not a fan of writing.


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## Ikaika

thank you everyone... I am very touched. Give a a few days, I just need some time to re-set my bearings. 

I will continue my story, which most of you can see is not a perfect marriage, but I never for a moment ever feel I made a mistake marrying my bride. We are a work in progress, a journey. Probably not one of bliss, but one of the hope of lasting love. And, not that love of infatuation but one that is hard to describe (folding between the lines of what I write). 

At some point I need to tell my MIL's story in this journey. A person who taught me what real love was when her husband, my FIL, was dying. I saw and experienced true love. My life, our marriage is successful because of others as well as due to our own commitment. 

Again thank you all for your kindness. Aloha


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## Coffee Amore

drerio - I'm glad you're not letting a thread like that drive you away. Let me share with you two of my favorite quotes. It has helped me through some dark times. 

"Stop letting people who do so little for you control so much of your mind,feelings and emotions."

"Don't let the behavior of others destroy your inner peace." ~ Dalai Lama


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## LovesHerMan

I have been very moved by your story, Drerio, and I am sorry that an angry, bitter poster could have derailed your interest in finishing it. Every mature adult understands that there is no such thing as a "perfect marriage." Please know that there are many of us who appreciate your posts.


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## Ikaika

I will continue with years 2007 and 2008 later. I am not going to worry about the colored attitude of other members. I guess it caught me off guard. 

My wife had her colonoscopy today... yes she had to endure the same preparatory procedures. I was worried, because unlike me, she opted to go completely under. I know this is an additional risk. Thus last night I woke up twice, worried, thinking the worse would happen. 

I may not kiss my wife every day I leave the house or hold her hand every time we walk the beach or stroll through the Mall. But, if I lost her, I don't know how I would manage. I know I would have to, but it would be hard, very hard. 

So does that sicken some people and create suspicion? I don't know. I guess I was upset, as my marriage seems to represent an issue for some TAM members. I will not apologize for that, it is not my issue. I am sorry for what some people have had to go through in their marriage, but I know it does not represent every marriage. 

Anyway, my wife did well... happy to report she had no polyps and she seems to be recovering quite well. I helped her to the car, came home and made her her first meal. It felt like a date.  So, I don't care what some people think, I do love my wife, in sickness and in health. 

This weekend we will celebrate our health with a gastronomic bbq feast of grass feed non-gh, and non-antibiotic free range hamburgers. Wish all of you were close by, I would insist you stop by to enjoy.


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## 2ntnuf

Glad to read that your wife is fine. 

Now my mouth is watering for grass fed beef.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

drerio said:


> thank you everyone... I am very touched. Give a a few days, I just need some time to re-set my bearings.
> 
> I will continue my story, which most of you can see is not a perfect marriage, but I never for a moment ever feel I made a mistake marrying my bride. We are a work in progress, a journey. Probably not one of bliss, but one of the hope of lasting love. And, not that love of infatuation but one that is hard to describe (folding between the lines of what I write).
> 
> At some point I need to tell my MIL's story in this journey. A person who taught me what real love was when her husband, my FIL, was dying. I saw and experienced true love. *My life, our marriage is successful because of others* as well as due to our own commitment.
> 
> Again thank you all for your kindness. Aloha


Then justice and logic would demand that you pay it forward, no?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Will happily await the next part of the tale after the storyteller is well-rested and well-fed.

.


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Then justice and logic would demand that you pay it forward, no?


Duly noted... and I will.


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## Anon Pink

Mmmm Hawaiian burgers!!!!


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

drerio said:


> duly noted... And i will.


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## Anonymous07

drerio said:


> My wife had her colonoscopy today... yes she had to endure the same preparatory procedures. I was worried, because unlike me, she opted to go completely under. I know this is an additional risk. Thus last night I woke up twice, worried, thinking the worse would happen.
> 
> I may not kiss my wife every day I leave the house or hold her hand every time we walk the beach or stroll through the Mall. But, if I lost her, I don't know how I would manage. I know I would have to, but it would be hard, very hard.
> 
> Anyway, my wife did well... happy to report she had no polyps and she seems to be recovering quite well.


Glad to hear your wife is doing well.  

This post kind of set off a "light bulb" moment for me, remembering what my husband said the other night. We were talking about the upcoming due date/birth of our son and I now realize he's scared of something happening during delivery. He tends to worry a lot about all possibilities, and said he doesn't know what he'd do if anything happened to me. I think I was too sleep deprived to realize what he said that night, but it's stuck in my head now.


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## Ikaika

Anonymous07 said:


> Glad to hear your wife is doing well.
> 
> This post kind of set off a "light bulb" moment for me, remembering what my husband said the other night. We were talking about the upcoming due date/birth of our son and I now realize he's scared of something happening during delivery. He tends to worry a lot about all possibilities, and said he doesn't know what he'd do if anything happened to me. I think I was too sleep deprived to realize what he said that night, but it's stuck in my head now.


Tells me he truly loves you. I know it has been rough for you guys lately, but as you can see from our story you can make it. I am sure that your marriage can survive and I believe it will thrive once again.


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## EnjoliWoman

I completely believe there are couples who are "perfect" - that doesn't mean there are never disagreements and they are always attracted to each other and never have problems. It means their marriage and their spouse is the most important thing in the world to them and they treat it that way.

I take pity on that poor soul who thinks that doesn't exist or wants it to fall apart. It must be awful to feel such bitterness and hopelessness. It was thoughtless to post it but in the end it was really sad because obviously since he is convinced this is a fantasy, he will never have it. Even if he comes close it will be tainted with suspicion and will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Thanks for your story.


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## Ikaika

"Passengers that have a confirmed seat for flight 1152 Delta Airlines departing at gate 51 bound for San Francisco please be ready for board soon. All first class passengers and passengers requiring assistance please line up on the right side of the gate and have your boarding pass ready." The year was 2007 and we were heading to the Child Study Center at Yale in Connecticut to see Dr. Volkmar and his team. Although our oldest son already had a confirmed diagnosis of ASD, we wanted to gain more information. Mostly we wanted to get recommendations from the leading experts in the country on what strategies would work best for Kenji. This was both a trip of business for our son as well as a mini-vacation. 

It was the start of Fall break for our sons who are on a year round schedule (first week in October) and we knew it would be cool but manageable from our stand point, coming from a tropical climate. The first time we had taken our boys on a plane that would last more than a half-hour. All previous trips were inter-island and at most would take only about 20 minutes in the air to reach our destination. The flight alone was an adventure; 18-hours of traveling through two very busy airports, San Francisco and Atlanta to finally reach the Bradley Field in CT with an eight and six year old. Our oldest at the time was still a 'runner'. This meant keeping him close so he would not take off and disappear into the crowd of people. It would never be a relaxing moment of letting our guard down and trying to decompress during our sojourn. Ryo, even at his young age provided an extra set of eyes on his brother. Even without prompting, he (Ryo) was ready to alert us if his brother tried to drift too far away from the family group. 

We landed at the airport in Atlanta nearly 40 minutes late. Arriving at concourse E made it all the more interesting as the plane to CT was 15 minutes from boarding in concourse A. I grabbed Kenji's hand as we ran through the airport to the underground subway. Exiting the subway we were nearly six gates away. Still holding on tightly to my son's hand we raced to the gate. Thirty seconds later they announced the first boarding call. Relieved, I realized I momentarily lost track of Kenji. We frantically looked up and down the concourse; Ryo spotted him 50 yards away. I told my wife and youngest son to board the plane. I ran down to get Kenji and we made it back to the gate as the final passengers to board. Nearly 2-hours later we landed at Bradley Field, exhausted but still an hour and half of driving till we reached the bed and breakfast. 

The next morning when we arrived at the clinic we were greeted by the admin assistant and Dr. Jamie. Dr. Jamie, right away tried engaged my son. He, Dr. Jamie, asked my son "what is your name?" My son's response, "call me piggly". It has always been a mystery to us (and still is) where he comes up with these answers. I recall one day when I was driving him to school he told me on more than on occasion that he felt "brown". I did not know what to make of it till I got a call around lunch time from Keiko asking me if I could pick up Kenji. The school told us he was running a 101F temp. So feeling brown meant he was sick. To this day he still has no good way to just directly expressing how he feels or what he wants. He uses his own awkward language or expects us to just know what he is thinking. 

The two-day assessment involved a series of different clinicians engaging my son and several different interviews my wife and I. Each of the two days ended by 1pm which gave us time to do some exploration. The one challenge that Keiko and I still deal with is the pilot and navigator scenario when we drive into unknown territories. This not to suggest that my wife is not a good navigator, but the combination of my impatience and that sometimes she loses track of where she is even with a GPS, can make for unnecessary tension. We have tried to device a system lately where we try to plan out our routes before we start out on the road. A few times we had some interesting adventures while in CT, nevertheless we actually spent very little time arguing about her navigation and my driving. 

The hardest point of this trip was the final meeting with Dr. Volkmar's team. They had a group of graduate students entertain our children while we were given a sober assessment of my son. They outlined several major interventions recommended. Don't get me wrong, we knew Kenji's limitations but to listen to this yet again was painful. Yet even more painful was the realization that while they were well intentioned in their recommendations we also knew back home, the school system was not equipped to deal with these new remediations. That became so jarring that my wife just stood outside on the sidewalk crying. I tried to console her, but knew there really was only so much I could do. As men, we like to feel as if we can solve even these complex problems but it may not always be the case. She cried harder when I tried to suggest some of the things we could do to make the school carryout the recommendations. I realized quickly she just wanted me to hug her. We stood there hugging each other for about 15 minutes before going to get our sons. 

Lessons learned from this travel: Although men are by nature or through some learned process problem solvers, at time don't. Sometimes, it is better to just hold your wife and provide her with loving support rather than trying to figure out and solve every problem. The problem you need to solve are the immediate ones facing you; a son who has drifted 50 yards away when we need to get going. Not complex, but that is what she needs you to do. Patience, patience, patience... this is something I need to practice everyday. It is the equivalent to being an athlete, practice to perfect yourself and especially work on the areas you are weakest on. Traveling a long way from home especially with two young ones in tow can test the limits of ones marriage, but I would say don't let that deter you from making the adventure. In the long run it is becomes a mini story of success. 

.... Next up, how to survive a major home renovation. Let me tell you, this can challenge a marriage and stretch you personally on so many levels.


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## 2ntnuf

drerio said:


> Lessons learned from this travel: Although men are by nature or through some learned process problem solvers, at time don't. Sometimes, it is better to just hold your wife and provide her with loving support rather than trying to figure out and solve every problem. The problem you need to solve are the immediate ones facing you; a son who has drifted 50 yards away when we need to get going. Not complex, but that is what she needs you to do. Patience, patience, patience... this is something I need to practice everyday. It is the equivalent to being an athlete, practice to perfect yourself and especially work on the areas you are weakest on. Traveling a long way from home especially with two young ones in tow can test the limits of ones marriage, but I would say don't let that deter you from making the adventure. In the long run it is becomes a mini story of success.
> 
> .... Next up,* how to survive a major home renovation*. Let me tell you, this can challenge a marriage and stretch you personally on so many levels.


:lol: Been there. woo hoo Can't wait. 

And by the way, thank you.


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## Coffee Amore

Thanks for updating. The opening was quite memorable. How did you teach Kenji not to be a runner? Was it a specific program, just the passage of time, maturity? 

You and Mrs. Drerio are wonderful parents. Your younger son, Ryo, sounds like a great sibling to Kenji. 

Home renovation..been there, done that, never want to do it again!


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> Thanks for updating. The opening was quite memorable. How did you teach Kenji not to be a runner? Was it a specific program, just the passage of time, maturity?
> 
> You and Mrs. Drerio are wonderful parents. Your younger son, Ryo, sounds like a great sibling to Kenji.
> 
> Home renovation..been there, done that, never want to do it again!


He out grew (maturity) being a runner. Ryo is a peer "therapist" but is also the typical little brother at times. The latter can be a problem. But, still better with him than without him. We have talked several times and convinced that Kenji is further along because of his brother. 

I am with you on the home renovations. Small projects, I am ok with, but I don't want to do the big ones again.


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## Lyris

I love that you realised what your wife needed was a hug. And then gave it to her.


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## committed4ever

Drerio your blog is awesome. I've been reading thru it slowly. It such an inspiration to a young couple. We need examples!


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## Ikaika

committed4ever said:


> Drerio your blog is awesome. I've been reading thru it slowly. It such an inspiration to a young couple. We need examples!


Thank you... I truly believe my story could be multiplied a 100x by other posters. BTW, again congratulations to your and your H. And, wish your H a Happy Fathers Day from me.


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## Ikaika

Mother in law

I have mentioned this before and I will say it again, a whole book could be dedicated to my mother-in-law. She was born in Okinawa 1930 to a mother (お婆さん) who was the equivalent of a sharecropper and a father who worked as an official for the local government. My MIL's father was by her own admission a bit a PUA. I asked on one occasion (to the shock and horror of my wife and SIL) if she had any half-siblings back in Okinawa. In a matter of a fact tone of voice she told me that she does have a half-sister there. Out of respect for her own mother she never made contact or developed a relationship with this other woman who is 10 years her junior. A not too unfamiliar TAM story. However, my MIL's story was far more complex than having to deal with her father's affairs. At a moment that she was coming to age, war broke out. Okinawa was and continues to be under Japanese annexation. At the start of the Pacific War with the US, their share of food was reduced in order to feed the Japanese imperial army. Taxation and rationing made austere living a fact of life. Then war reached their shores in one of the bloodiest battles of WWII, the battle of Okinawa. As a civilians, unarmed and scared of both armies most citizens had little choice but to abandon their villages. My MIL never says much of her personal experience, although when pressed says they had to live in the caves carved out in the mountain side. Food was rationed by elders based on what they were able to carry with them or gather in the early morning hours when the fighting would wane a bit. As the war raged on most men (including her father) were conscripted into service. Shortly after the battle of Okinawa, the conclusion of WWII became inevitable. But, the harsh living conditions were going to remain for years and decades. 

Post war and during the American occupation to assist in rebuilding, my FIL (second generation Japanese American from Hawai'i) was employed by US government, a contractor to help in the effort. He fit right into what was needed, a skilled carpenter who could speak fluent Japanese. He was assigned to the Prefecture Naha, Okinawa, where he was able to work as carpenter and foreman. On a daily basis he would hire local workers into service as labors and office workers. He also did the payroll at the end of every workday. According to my MIL, she came to the office that he worked out of looking for work herself. She, my MIL, asked who was in-charge a fellow villager pointed to the man the who would someday be her future husband. She inquired about work and told him she could type and had some accounting skills to help with payroll. When she asked him his name, he feigned his identity by giving her a last name (H_) that sounded more like an Okinawan native than of purely Japanese decent. He also told her to come back tomorrow and he may have a job for her. When she came back the next day she asked the clerk in the front office for the man named Mr. H_. The woman said no one by that name works here. When my FIL emerged from the back office, my MIL pointed and said him. He tried hard to duck back into his office. I think he was hoping that he did not have to see her again (not sure why). She was persistent in wanting a job. He gave in and found a employment for her at another site under a different manager. In time however, my FIL, began to realize that she was different than many of the other locals. He fell hard for her and began courting her. My FIL, was not a PUA, but he was a bit of a scoundrel. Needless to say through all of that he had a soft interior that my MIL could see. He, my FIL, won favor with my MIL's family and within the year they were married. They remained in Okinawa until 1958, when my FIL's contracts was over. They decided to seek a better life outside of what was still a war torn country. With three children in tow, they headed back to Hawai'i. They had saved up enough money so when they came back to the home country of my FIL, they were able to buy farm land from an elderly couple. My MIL, still owns that land to this day although it sits under a shopping mall that she leases out to them. An old two bedroom 800 sq.ft. termite eaten house on 3/4 acres of land was home until the early 1980s. Two more children were born including my wife the youngest of five. My FIL did not farm the land, and continued his trade as a carpenter up to his retirement. And, though my MIL has money now, back then they lived paycheck to paycheck. As an added complication my MIL, when coming to the US, could not speak the language, had no familiarity with the culture and never learned how to drive. Yet another struggle for her, but as always she never looked at it with anything other than a conviction to forge ahead. She would often have to walk 1/2 mile or more to the grocery story with two young children towed in a red rider wagon only to bring them back home with the additional weight of groceries. She farmed the land for their own food. She became an accomplished cook and after the last child (my wife) got old enough to start school as a 4th grader, she took up employment at different restaurants around town. All the while she attended classes to learn English and also Citizenship classes. She eventually took the test and oath to become an American citizen. Back in those days it was not automatic that marrying an American citizen guaranteed you anything. She worked hard as a wife, mother and employee. Yet, she never ever complained or showed any dissatisfaction for the life lived. When I say she worked hard as a wife, one has to understand that my FIL came from a very traditional background (the Samurai type). Though she may have been working all day, it was expected that when he sat at the table she would serve him his meal (example). She could have easily felt sorry for herself, wondered "what if", or any other sort of "why me" thoughts. But, never did I ever see this in her spirit. She was and continues to be a shining example of endurance in all situations. 

In late January 1998 when my FIL was diagnosed with cancer and given six-months to live, for a brief moment my MIL took it hard. Then she pulled herself together and dedicated herself to caring for this man, her husband. I saw love, played out like I had never experienced before. She rarely left his side. She barely stood, 4'9", but she was (and still is) strong. She could easily help him move around as he became weaker and more frail. When he was finally bed ridden, she would give him a sponge bath every day, singing to him as she did this thankless task. Even my FIL recognized what a wonderful woman she is. When I would go to change his IV in the middle of the night, my MIL would be sleeping on the floor next to his bed; always ready to care for him. And, yet as her (MIL) grown children and their children (grandchildren) came to visit she would always be ready whip up some wonderful meal in the kitchen. January 1999, when my BIL (wife's oldest brother) and his wife came over to visit, my MIL went to the kitchen (moment away from her husband) to make meal for them. My wife replaced my mom and sat by my FIL's bedside. By this time my FIL could no longer communicate and he really was in his last days. As my MIL was preparing a meal, my wife sitting by her father's bedside notice his breathing stopping and starting again. Finally, it stopped and did not start up again. She came to her mom in the kitchen and told her "daddy is not with us any longer". She ran to the bedroom to see her H, still and quiet (peaceful). She weeped loudly and expressed her guilt for not being there at the moment he passed. But, everyone assured her that it was ok and they she did more than anyone could have asked her to do. 

My MIL has became the matriarch of the family and truly took on the role as only she could. She has both a gentle and kind spirit but also one that provides an example of surviving all that life can present. She is getting older and a little less of that role is playing out as she is beginning to show some early signs of dementia. Needless to say, even as of last night we all talked about what our role would be to see to it that her final days would be one of love and care for this woman who has endured and left an enduring legacy of love and hope to every life she has touched. I can say that I saw marriage (FIL and MIL) that was not perfect, but through it all was enduring and successful


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## CharlieParker

Thanks.



drerio said:


> She weeped loudly and expressed her guilt for not being there at the moment he passed.


Got me misty.


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## 2ntnuf

I wish you could give her(MIL) a hug for me. Thank you, drerio. That was lovely. Made me miss my mum.


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## Coffee Amore

That's a lovely tribute to your MIL. It's clear you love and respect your MIL so much and are grateful she moved to the US where raised your wife (and the rest of the family) so that you're now able to be a part of it all.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Just wanted to say that you're doing a great job on your story. It's helping to get more people interested in the LTSIM forum plus you are providing some positive examples that could help others with their marriages.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

So happy I popped in just in time to catch the latest update!

Great update, as always!


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## Lyris

I loved reading that.


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## Ikaika

Thank you everyone for you kind comments about my MIL's story... She would be the last person in the world to think of herself as anyone deserving of respect and a story. She does not like the spot light at all, but I think she is certainly deserving of a story. And, though she may appear to be from another generation (truly old school), I think she could easily be a hero to many women of many generations. 

I don't know that I could have done what she accomplished.


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## Northern Monkey

That she is so humble is only the more incredible.

I am amazed and honestly a little jealous at your ability to find and buy into positive rolemodels. When one of the typical rolemodels in your life fails, its all too easy to be unresponsive to the good influences.

Thanks again for sharing.


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## Ikaika

Renovations, the challenge of not just rebuilding a home but a marriage

We knew when we moved into our home in 2000, that this was a fixer-upper house. We got it for a good price for that very reason. The use of 2x4 lumber to keep the kitchen cabinets from collapsing could only go on so long. And, that horrible popcorn ceiling, ugh. The lighting straight out of the 1970s that made you feel like you were living in dark cave. A few years prior, we were able to get the help from my BIL, who took up his father's trade as a carpenter, to completely gut all three bathrooms and rebuild them from the ground up: new tile, new vanities, new and durable countertops. But so much more needed to be done; the galley kitchen with its limited countertop space old sagging cabinets and dim lighting. The interior had not been painted in decades. We had saved up a significant amount of the money needed but now that we were in better financial shape we felt comfortable to borrow the rest to get the work done. That in itself is a stressor on any marriage, stretching our financing back to that point of when we first bought this home. It was like starting from ground zero all over again. 

Love, that gushy feeling you had in the beginning, is not enough to build a successful marriage. Decisions of buying a house, which one and can you manage to fix the wear and tear items can be so important. If you ask me or my wife if we could go back in time to buying a turnkey home or this fixer-upper - hands down you would get a symphonic response of turnkey home. If you ask the reason why? Be ready to pull up a chair and stay for dinner. Where do I start? Is it cheaper to own the fixer-upper? I would say in terms of the long-term finances it is about the same, just that all your money will be spread out over a longer period of time. But, more than that, you need to look at the fixer-upper like a single empty canvas with two artist contending for power over what the final picture should look like. I sometimes use the analogy of long-term marriage like a marathon and it is. But it is a marathon that requires riding a tandem bicycle. To get where you are going you need to both be willing to pedal in unison and be willing to travel in the same direction. Sometimes this is not hard and sometimes it is near impossible. In the latter of these two, a time like that comes when you want to renovate that empty canvas. It is ok to fight, but it is also important to always communicate and compromise when necessary. And, it is bad enough to fight with each other now you have deal with a third party, the contractor, ugh, ugh, ugh... 

We started mentally thinking about this process January of 2008. Brilliant me after reading books thought, I got it. We (wife and I) will separately list things that were important to us in the renovation project and also put together a crude drawing of the final project after it is done. We would then come back together and compare our list. The hope was to see all the items that overlapped and rank them. Sounds great! Problem, we almost had nothing in common. Stupid books that suggested we start there. In the meantime it was time to start interviewing potential contractors. Of course every time a contractor would come over and asked what we wanted done, a new fight would happen and the contractor would quickly finish making notes and say something like "well, I am really busy right now with other projects, but here is my contact number. Give me call and I can give you a possible ballpark figure." They would usually leave quickly. Finally my wife suggested we hire a kitchen designer for the kitchen and an architect to design our master bedroom extension. "I'm a man, and I know about these things (wife rolling eyes again), they are way too expensive. Let me just think about what I want." That last line, big mistake. Not the last stupid thing out of my mouth but certainly a big one. She let me stew over ideas and drawings for a week and half. In reality, I had nothing. This was definitely beyond my level of understanding. "Keiko, I think we should hire an architect/kitchen designer." My wife's casual response "Oh, I think that is a great idea." She did not give me the I told you so or try to interject it was her idea to begin with, she just let it go. I so love her for that, that she allowed me to just be an idiot without condemnation for a short period of time. It is not always important to win, such a vital lesson I learned in that moment. We found both (kitchen designer and architect) in the same building and if we used the firms architect and bought cabinets through their contact, the kitchen design would come free of charge. Of course nothing is free, but free of anymore headaches is a price worth it. Since we put the whole project through the city conveyances (permitted project), having professionals work on the design made the cost worth it in the long haul. The only thing that was left to us (and my wife let me do this one ) was the lighting design/layout. Once we settled on a kitchen design, I took the drawings and put in the lighting scheme. I took the lighting design to my wife and asked her what she thought. It was that simple act of me asking her opinion, I got nearly a complete approval. She tweaked one thing and I was Ok with it. Wow, we were finally clicking on the same page. We got our three contract bids. I had the popcorn ceiling tested, no asbestos. That last point was such a relief. It was already flaking off even before we started renovations. 

Given the amount of work we were going to do, we moved out. It was going to be messy, really messy. I remember signing the contract and handing over the first of three checks to the contract at same time his workers were taking sledge hammers to the kitchen cabinets and countertops... The actual project will require a whole new entry, more to come in the next episode.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Ugh!

I've told people, "If you think you want to marry him/her, work on ONE home renovation project together. If you're STILL SPEAKING to each other at the end of it, you've got a pretty good chance of making your marriage work!" 

Am happy that you and Keiko managed to still be speaking! Can't wait to hear/read the rest!


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Ugh!
> 
> I've told people, "If you think you want to marry him/her, work on ONE home renovation project together. If you're STILL SPEAKING to each other at the end of it, you've got a pretty good chance of making your marriage work!"
> 
> Am happy that you and Keiko managed to still be speaking! Can't wait to hear/read the rest!


So true. To go a step further, we still love each other after all of that  

We do love our kitchen and extended bedroom now, so it was worth it. It works so much better for entertaining, so anytime you are in town you have to stop by.


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## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> So true. To go a step further, we still love each other after all of that
> 
> We do love our kitchen and extended bedroom now, so it was worth it. It works so much better for entertaining, so anytime you are in town you have to stop by.


I remember seeing some of your Kitchen pics in one of those threads in social .. VERY NICE ... envious of all that counter space your wife has to work with. 

We buy the fixer uppers & muddle through it together.....may take years to get to something... we try to be our own Red-Neck contractors...so things don't get done as beautiful as it should.. Broke down & hired a couple over the years where we could have had the house collapse if we didn't do it right. 

Where is your area again Drerio ? I know it's far, but if we ever was..we'd stop in !


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## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> I remember seeing some of your Kitchen pics in one of those threads in social .. VERY NICE ... envious of all that counter space your wife has to work with.
> 
> We buy the fixer uppers & muddle through it together.....may take years to get to something... we try to be our own Red-Neck contractors...so things don't get done as beautiful as it should.. Broke down & hired a couple over the years where we could have had the house collapse if we didn't do it right.
> 
> Where is your area again Drerio ? I know it's far, but if we ever was..we'd stop in !


Windward side of O'ahu, Kaneohe. 

We did somethings ourself. I don't want to give too much away but when you have to move pluming and and 220 for the oven/range, this was beyond our expertise. Oh the joy.


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## Ikaika

One thing Keiko chose and it was a great choice for anyone looking at doing a kitchen remodel, a deep sink. I put a large stock pot in the sink to give you an idea



















love our built into the counter top range and stove top.










One of the best features. All the drawers are full extension drawers (meaning no hidden blind spots in the back. And they are all soft close. 










Hidden trash receptacle










Hidden (wood panel) dishwasher










Still a relative small kitchen space but is far more functional than it used to be. I originally had it set for five pendant lights. However each pendant light was hand made (hand blown glass) and the three pendant lights were more than half of total price of all the light fixtures. My wife said we can settle for three. I agreed. 










ETA: we have actually cleaned it up a bit from this picture. I built a bit more storage under the stairway closet so we have even more counter top space than the pic shown above.


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## Coffee Amore

SGW is so right about a remodel being a good test of whether two people can stay together or not. We remodeled our home several years ago. We used a design/build firm. The remodel took about 4 months. While the results are lovely, I don't think I want to remodel for at least another 20 years, if ever!

Your home is lovely, drerio. This is like reading a good book. Each chapter has something new and interesting about you and Mrs. Drerio. How exactly do you say that anyway? I say it like dreary-oh.


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> SGW is so right about a remodel being a good test of whether two people can stay together or not. We remodeled our home several years ago. We used a design/build firm. The remodel took about 4 months. While the results are lovely, I don't think I want to remodel for at least another 20 years, if ever!
> 
> Your home is lovely, drerio. This is like reading a good book. Each chapter has something new and interesting about you and Mrs. Drerio. How exactly do you say that anyway? I say it like *dreary-oh*.


Sounds right to me  don't know that running genus species of zebrafish together can be pronounced properly.


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## 2ntnuf

After we got married, we wanted a bigger apartment. We had to remodel it before we could move. It was a test of mettle. It was a test of our marriage. We came through with flying colors. 

We did the design and the work ourselves. At some point, I had my brother helping. When he could no longer help, my ex took over and we worked well together. 

I thought the same thing. It is a good test. Just one of many. 

I'm so glad you saw that you did not have to control everything, just be open and compromise. We used to say, "Pick your battles."

Thank you for your story, drerio.


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## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> After we got married, we wanted a bigger apartment. We had to remodel it before we could move. It was a test of mettle. It was a test of our marriage. We came through with flying colors.
> 
> We did the design and the work ourselves. At some point, I had my brother helping. When he could no longer help, my ex took over and we worked well together.
> 
> I thought the same thing. It is a good test. Just one of many.
> 
> I'm so glad you saw that you did not have to control everything, just be open and compromise. We used to say, "Pick your battles."
> 
> Thank you for your story, drerio.


thank you for your comments.


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## Ikaika

A short note for today:

I try to be a good father to my sons. I care about them very much. Thus, I know that to be a father, I need to show love for my wife. We are in this together as parents. So, though this is Father's Day, I am blessed to have a wife who is caring to both me and my sons. 

This day is as much about her as it is about me.


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## Ikaika

I will continue *the construction story part two* tomorrow. However, more on a family and personal note:

So my youngest son participated in his first season (Spring) of Flag Football. It is well organized league that does keep score. They have a playoff and championship series. But, it comes with a coach and parent pledge to keep it all under control. I like the philosophy - all kids play, emphasize fundamentals and fun. The kids do learn to compete, but never to the expense of good sportsmanship. 

The coach is not coming back this summer because his son is aging out. So the remaining players wanted to stay together. So yes, I volunteered to take over the reigns as head coach. 

Wish me luck. I will post little victories (not necessarily always wins) on my thread. But, don't worry, this is still about our LTSiM. But, I figure it is also a chance to be a positive influence in some kids life.

I think I am also able to change the name... current name "Knights". It does not really thrill me. I was thinking more like:

Fightin' Mongoose
Tiger Sharks
Five-0's (my wife's suggestion as a play on Hawaii Five-0)

Any other suggestions are welcome.


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## Ikaika

Trenton said:


> I like Five-O's!


It actually works quite well since it is a five on five flag football. 

I like that every parent has to sign a pledge (essentially that they will behave and emphasize the better nature of participating in a team sport) - required by the league for their child to participate.


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## Coffee Amore

I like your wife's suggestion for the Five-O's. 

The NBA Finals between the Spurs and the Miami Heat made me think of "Hawaiian Heat" as a possibility for your younger son's team.

The parent pledge is a great idea. About time!


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I like 

'Tsunami' or
the Hawaiian word for 'lightning'

(Have to admit, I have a soft spot for "Knight"; my dad served on a destroyer, the USS Knight, in WWII; love to hear his stories!)


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## Coffee Amore

I know you think we've forgotten about your story, but we haven't. Don't think you can get away from updating us with the next installment.


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> I know you think we've forgotten about your story, but we haven't. Don't think you can get away from updating us with the next installment.


No, I did not forget... I have been enjoying reading everyone else story lately. I also had to make some corrections on a grant, so I got behind on my story offline. 

Also putting in a little planning time to coaching. I know it is just volunteer work, but I want to give these kids my best. Mainly I want them to have fun. So the teacher in me has my first three practices "lesson planned" out, 

I will have time tomorrow.

ETA: the team name: Kailua "five-0s"


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## EnjoliWoman

A'hem.


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## Ikaika

EnjoliWoman said:


> A'hem.


:embarrassed: Didn't think (hoping no one) anyone was paying attention. I promise I will post part two of construction and so many other stories.


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## 4sakenallothers

I am a newbie and found your stories very inspirational. Cant wait for you to post more.


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## Ikaika

I may return to tell the rest of my story someday, but for now I am taking a very long break (possibly a permanent break) from TAM. My marriage is still strong. I still love my wife and she has expressed her love for me. I hope even my unfinished story for now, can inspire someone to realize possibilities for their own long-term marriage. 

Ours may not be perfect, but I can say with confidence, that I made the correct decision in my marriage. I truly love my wife.


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## angelpixie

D- I was looking to see what happened to you as I hadn't seen you posting for a few days. I"m sorry I didn't get a chance to say good-bye, but I hope everything goes well in the coaching department and that you all have fun. You've been a good friend to many of us here on TAM. I'll miss you. Keep in touch.


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## Ikaika

I will continue soon, sorry about being so down. It is not anyone, it just me. Things I sometimes have to get over. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2


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## CharlieParker

Stay safe.


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## Ikaika

CharlieParker said:


> Stay safe.


We will, it has taken a slightly northern track as it bears down on the Big Island. This is not surprising as Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea both present problems for any storm. While shift north weakens the storm it also means it is a dead aim for both Maui and you guessed it, for the Windward coast of O'ahu where we live. Oh well, life is just what it is. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2


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## angelpixie

Keep us posted when you can, so we know you're all OK. Keeping you in my thoughts, D.


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## Ikaika

angelpixie said:


> Keep us posted when you can, so we know you're all OK. Keeping you in my thoughts, D.


http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/category/198303/livestream

Thank you
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2


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## CharlieParker

drerio said:


> LIVE STREAM - Hawaii News Now - KGMB and KHNL
> 
> Thank you
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2


I read the link and was :scratchhead: what's up with Hawaii New Snow :rofl:


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## meson

drerio said:


> We will, it has taken a slightly northern track as it bears down on the Big Island. This is not surprising as Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea both present problems for any storm. While shift north weakens the storm it also means it is a dead aim for both Maui and you guessed it, for the Windward coast of O'ahu where we live. Oh well, life is just what it is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2


Yes, the storms center is headed straight for somewhere between Kaneohe and Waimanalo. That's right in your neighborhood. Hopefully the flooding won't be bad. Good Luck!!!


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## Ikaika

So the work started and we settled into a small condo for the next few months while our house was being renovated. The original builder had put popcorn ceiling texture (non-asbestos) and we wanted that removed. I came over to see how things were going later that afternoon (day one) and one of the workers came out of our house covered in white from the popcorn ceiling. I wish I had taken pictures before, during and after. When the workers left on the first day, I hardly recognized our house. Bare floors, the ceiling was stripped bare, the kitchen had nothing but wires and pipes sticking up and out from the walls. Our master bedroom had huge hole knocked outward (covered with blue plastic tarp) where the extension would eventually go. At the end of every work day, I would go and see the progress. Our living room eventually turned into a work/transition station, large saw units set up, etc. When the electricians came onboard, more wires and more holes where light fixtures would go. My wife was too scared to look at what had become of our house at this point. 

First stressful event: the contractor had patched and re-textured the ceiling. They painted the downstairs area and they were ready to hang the cabinets. The cabinets did not arrive on island yet. They are custom built in a plant in South Dakota. They had just left the factory at that point and en-route to California to be loaded on a barge for Hawai'i. And, the barge would still be a week out. The contractor started in on another job close by. This gave me the opportunity to take some time off from work and paint the upstairs common way and each bedroom. It was not intentional but eventually we had a theme. My oldest son wanted his bedroom a light burnt orange color (Autumn), the youngest wanted light blue (Summer), what is now the music room my wife chose a lavender color (Spring) and our bedroom was an icy blue color (Winter). Ummm, lets just say we do melt any hints of cold in our room . My wife would bring lunch to me on her lunch break as I was patching, priming and painting the upstairs. Under the stress of remodeling this was a memory I cherish. It really was quite nice. Did we run into problems oh yes. I would say at least once a week the contractor was questioning something about the kitchen plans. It was bearing a toll on me and my wife. We fought more during this time than any other time in our marriage. Even though most everything was moving along much smoother than I anticipated it still weighed on us. At some stage we just wanted the whole thing to be done but it just seemed to drag on and on and on. Our kids hated not living back at home and they got on our nerves more than usual. Finally the flooring contractor was trying to schedule their work. Fine, no not fine. I had the mediate between my main contractor and the flooring people. They nearly came fist to cuffs with trying to figure our who was to do what and when. This was almost the same with the countertop contractor. Really? We are almost done and I have to be the grown up. I am tired of this and just want these people out of my house. Then I look over what has been done and notice it is the wrong stove and range that was installed. Great, now we have to argue with the supplier. Come to find out the one we originally ordered was discontinued but did cost a little more. After I checked out what was installed, I was pretty happy with the alternative and we did not have to pay the difference. 

How stressful was this whole thing? In the three-months during this ordeal, I can recall on one hand the number of times we made love. We fought more than we had sex. Finally the walk through with the contractor followed by the final payment. The punch list was only about 20 items (trust me that is short for anyone who knows based on the size of the project). Move back in day. Was it all worth it? It was. First day back in our house, we did not move anything back in and thus we all slept on folding mattresses downstair and ate take-out pizza. Best night ever in our house 

In the long-term assessment, this did not damage our marriage as I had heard it could from others. It did challenge us, but in the end we survived. I can't say it made us stronger but it certainly did not make us any less of a married couple. Just another challenge, a new hill to climb and finally we made it. Would I undertake a project like this again? We would and probably will do some more renovations in the future, but nothing on this scale. No, never again on this level of work. Smaller projects. In the next series I want to address a little more about my drinking issues and how it both affected my health and our relationship. As a preview, if there was ever an issue that brought us close to divorce this was it. It was me, I needed to tackle this issue.


----------



## Coffee Amore

Good to see you update this story, drerio. Now everyone can get their drerio fix. 



drerio said:


> In the long-term assessment, this did not damage our marriage as I had heard it could from others. It did challenge us, but in the end we survived. I can't say it made us stronger but it certainly did not make us any less of a married couple. Just another challenge, a new hill to climb and finally we made it. Would I undertake a project like this again? We would and probably will do some more renovations in the future, but nothing on this scale. No, never again on this level of work. Smaller projects. In the next series I want to address a little more about my drinking issues and how it both affected my health and our relationship. As a preview, if there was ever an issue that brought us close to divorce this was it. It was me, I needed to tackle this issue.


I can relate. We did a huge remodel a few years ago. It took about 5 months. It even rained heavily during construction, which affected the schedule. Plus the tarp they used to cover things wasn't enough cover. I vowed never to do a remodel on that scale ever again.


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## Ikaika

Pics taken down


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## angelpixie

Thank you for sharing those, D.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

GREAT pix, drerio!

In the drumming pic, your son's facial features look VERY MUCH LIKE YOURS. 

Thanks for the heads-up, d!


I haven't been on TAM a lot lately, and I was afraid I was SO FAR behind on your story...but, I'm all caught up now! Will sit patiently and await more (as I know you're coaching, working on grants, and school will start up shortly!)


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> GREAT pix, drerio!
> 
> In the drumming pic, your son's facial features look VERY MUCH LIKE YOURS.
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up, d!
> 
> 
> I haven't been on TAM a lot lately, and I was afraid I was SO FAR behind on your story...but, I'm all caught up now! Will sit patiently and await more (as I know you're coaching, working on grants, and school will start up shortly!)


I think your inbox maybe full


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## diwali123

Why do I always miss pics of you and your wife?


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> Why do I always miss pics of you and your wife?


I promise I will put some up latter. I will send you a PM when I do.


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## diwali123

Cool!


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## meson

Nice shots! Seeing the local boys makes me homesick. Can't wait to hear more of your story.


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## EnjoliWoman

You're doing something right, Drerio - just look at how happy the face in your family photos always are.  Maybe you should think about that and look at some photos when you doubt yourself because of your father's negativity.


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> Cool!


Pics taken down


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## diwali123

Does your oldest purposely look away when a camera comes out?


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> Does your oldest purposely look away when a camera comes out?


He does... he is my autistic child. He claims it steals his inner person to look into the camera. Just who he is.


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## SimplyAmorous

Love your dog Kaia's eyes... some nice shots of your young man and his best friend. I bet he guards your family well...

I grew up with 3 Shepherds .. one was so mean when my dad got him...he couldn't handle him...it was the craziest thing...Our garage was robbed...and he purposely looked for the meanest beast of a shepherd he could find......I was terrified of that dog...He named him "Smoke" and he carried Logs in his mouth.... eventually he and I got used to each other.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

My grandmother, who lived in the country, had some German Shepherds. The male, Smokey, scared me; the female, Foxy, was okay. Their male puppy, Barney, (born in a barn) was adorable. But I NEVER trusted those dogs.


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## BrokenVows

Drerio, I just caught up on your journey & must say you have a great writing technique. I could feel your emotions & actually teared up more than once. Thanks for sharing your success tips!


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## FrenchFry

Welcome Back Drerio!


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## Ikaika

FrenchFry said:


> Welcome Back Drerio!


Thank you. Aloha


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## Ikaika

I want to say to everyone who had followed my story and then saw it disappear, I apologize. I will try not to be so childish in the future. I believe in telling what I feel at present is still a long-term successful story may provide some lesson to someone (at least I hope it does). This is not to take away or exacerbate anyone else pain that they may be going through in their own relationship. It is simply our (mine and my wife) story. I will continue it as long as I can and at some point, I will just leave it for others to simply read and take away what they feel they can from it. 

I will say that even after what will be 19 years of marriage this coming December and beyond our peak years, I still think my wife is the most beautiful and sexy woman I know. I truly am a lucky man.


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## Coffee Amore

I'm glad your thread is back, drerio. So anyway, when is the next update? If it takes too long, I might have to post that drill sargeant picture you posted for SGW.


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## CharlieParker

I'm glad, it was getting kinda lonely here.


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## meson

Yes, Welcome back! I've been waiting to see your updates as well so I'm glad you brought back the thread.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

He's baaaaaaaaack!

(and more fun than Jack Nicholson!)


*SMILE*


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## Ikaika

Compromise:

I titled this very short chapter compromise because there are times when both parties (husband and wife) have to understand that some battles are best won when neither completely wins. This is not to suggest everything is a compromise and I personally think that trying to compromise on every issue is unhealthy for the marriage and for each of the individuals involved. However, the art of compromsing is tough but sometimes necessary. 

I am not a professional musician but it definitely helped to know how to play music well enough to get gigs with bands during my college years. It help offset expenses. After I graduated (undergraduate and later graduate school), I kept my original bass, but did not find the time to play gigs. During my years working and in graduate school there were long periods of time where I would play very little. Moving from place to place, I feared losing my original bass and even stored it at my parent's house for period at a time. And, during these times, it was the bass in my head that I played. 

Music defines part of my soul. My wife understands this, and thus understands that my need to be connected to music is important. To this end, playing music in my in-home studio or with friends cannot be compromised, least it takes away from who I am. However, in recent years I have managed to acquire some relatively high end basses (mostly used). At first my wife said nothing. She then asked on several occasions as to whether I needed to crowd my small studio with so many instruments. "Do you really play them all that often to warrant having them?" I was defensive and not wanting to hear what she was suggesting. Each instrument, while seemingly similar, had their own personality and tone that I could hear and feel. She did not press hard but would ask nicely and inquire from time to time. I soon realized it was a small compromise I needed to make. The compromise to pare down my quill of instruments. However, my wife also knows that another part of my soul is based on my fervent need to exercise on a near religious basis. I have been slowly building up my in-home space. 

So we came to the compromise. I would unload a couple of my basses (I just unloaded my double acoustic bass last weekend) and in return I would acquire a new (used) weight bench that is more conducive to my needs. It is a win in one way. We are trying to get our autistic son to build up more of his muscle tone. So I engage my son in working out with me when I am lifting weights. He is not always agreeable to it. But once engaged in the workout, he will go from beginning to end on a given workout.

Bass I recently sold (Bertha):



Original Bass (1973 Fender Precision Fretless - "Kalena")



The other bass I will likely keep (German made Warwick Corvette4 $$- "Gloria"):



Just a couple more to unload... don't want to their picture.


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## CharlieParker

Have you considered getting a Steinberger for space reasons


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## Ikaika

CharlieParker said:


> Have you considered getting a Steinberger for space reasons


Too old school, I just like the feel of those full length body and necks. Anyway, what I have (in my quiver), I like and works for me.


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## Coffee Amore

"Bertha" is a beauty. I used to play the piano, but gave it away. It was taking up too much room and I'm much happier with the two bookshelves that replaced it.

Did you name those instruments or did they come with those names?


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> "Bertha" is a beauty. I used to play the piano, but gave it away. It was taking up too much room and I'm much happier with the two bookshelves that replaced it.
> 
> Did you name those instruments or did they come with those names?


I named them. I name all of my instruments


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## Ikaika

I know, nothing really to do with this journey. In our final game of the Summer season flag football we won in exciting fashion. We were down 18 - 6 at half time. My players (6 boys and 1 girl) were all hanging their heads. Two of the scores came when they picked off two balls (interceptions) and ran all the way back. Neither side was good at extra points, hence the score. 

I told the team, don't get down on yourself and don't quit yet. We just need to just keep pushing the ball down the field. Be patient and just move the ball. I said once we make positive yards, run back to the huddle for a the call. We moved the ball, and were able to stop them on every possession in the second half. On our second possession we scored but failed to covert the extra point. We had five minutes and needed to march the ball down the field from one end to the other. This was our final possession. With 1:03 we converted on our third touchdown play to tie the game at 18 - 18. The clock was stopped at :55 and we set the play and converted on our only extra point of the day that put us ahead 18 - 19. They had :40 seconds to push the ball down the field. We held them and won.


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## angelpixie

Great job, Coach!! :smthumbup:

And I know you must be kind of sad to see Bertha go. She is a beautiful instrument. But it's great that you're replacing it with something else that is important to you -- and that lets you do something together with your son.  

And I understand that you and Mrs. D sometimes have to make these compromises. After all, you live on an island -- space is at a premium.


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## Ikaika

angelpixie said:


> Great job, Coach!! :smthumbup:
> 
> And I know you must be kind of sad to see Bertha go. She is a beautiful instrument. But it's great that you're replacing it with something else that is important to you -- and that lets you do something together with your son.
> 
> And I understand that you and Mrs. D sometimes have to make these compromises. After all, you live on an island -- space is at a premium.


Thank you Angel... Link to "our" (wife said she will use it, just worried I will turn drill sergeant on her ) workout space

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/social-spot/104977-workout-non-bodybuilding-thread-15.html#post3884514


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## meson

drerio said:


> Compromise:
> 
> I titled this very short chapter compromise because there are times when both parties (husband and wife) have to understand that some battles are best won when neither completely wins. This is not to suggest everything is a compromise and I personally think that trying to compromise on every issue is unhealthy for the marriage and for each of the individuals involved. However, the art of compromsing is tough but sometimes necessary.


Well said and I agree. Not everything can or should go the way you want while keeping your spouses needs met. Sometimes the compromise is that this time it's her way and not the middle way. Not everything can be diluted.


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## Northern Monkey

Good to see you keeping the thread going D.

Sounds like a great result. Well played.


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## Ikaika

Today is my beautiful bride's birthday. Though we are both getting older, I still see her same as when I first met her only better 

We will celebrate it our boys tonight as we enjoy a meal out a The Fat Greek http://thefatgreek.net/index.html


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## angelpixie

:birthday: to Mrs D!


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## diwali123

drerio said:


> Today is my beautiful bride's birthday. Though we are both getting older, I still see her same as when I first met her only better
> 
> We will celebrate it our boys tonight as we enjoy a meal out a The Fat Greek http://thefatgreek.net/index.html


Tell her happy birthday and it's my birthday too!!!!


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> Tell her happy birthday and it's my birthday too!!!!


Happy Birthday diwali123


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## diwali123

How old is she?


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> How old is she?


Pretty sure she won't mind, a beautiful and youthful 51


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## diwali123

drerio said:


> Pretty sure she won't mind, a beautiful and youthful 51


Only nine years difference!


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## CharlieParker

drerio said:


> Pretty sure she won't mind, a beautiful and youthful 51


51 is a good age. 

Again, best wishes.


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## diwali123

Thanks!
42 feels good. I'm finally over the 40 blues.


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## diwali123

Ask her how to prepare for 50. I think I'm going to need shock therapy.


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> Ask her how to prepare for 50. I think I'm going to need shock therapy.


We are making a bigger deal out of this year than last year. Maybe just playing it low key helped.


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## Ikaika

Doing some cleaning today and I ran across this and thought I would share it. It is from my youngest son from about a year ago. You have to remember he is dyslexic (currently enrolled in a private school to address this issue). The context of the letter is that he kept begging me to sign him up for flag football. I finally did and he spontaneously just wrote this letter. I know it is hard to read in some areas. I tried to fix it as best I could. The picture I understand, if you want to ask questions, feel free


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## angelpixie

That choked me up, D. I want you to _always_ remember that letter, especially if you ever start feeling down on yourself again. You can't get a better validation of how you're doing as a dad. And the fact that he just did it all spontaneously speaks to what a special young man he is, too. You and Mrs. D are doing a great job.


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## Ikaika

angelpixie said:


> That choked me up, D. I want you to _always_ remember that letter, especially if you ever start feeling down on yourself again. You can't get a better validation of how you're doing as a dad. And the fact that he just did it all spontaneously speaks to what a special young man he is, too. You and Mrs. D are doing a great job.


Thank you. It is true that it is all too easy to become self absorbed and feel pity for self.


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## angelpixie

Oh, I'm sorry, D, that's not at all what I meant! I don't think you're feeling self-pity.


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## Ikaika

angelpixie said:


> Oh, I'm sorry, D, that's not at all what I meant! I don't think you're feeling self-pity.


I know it is not what you meant. I just think sometimes if I could have someone shake me and tell me to snap out of it, everything would be better. 

Thank you


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## Coffee Amore

You should frame it and keep it in your office at work or maybe in your bedroom. It's a very sweet letter. 

I wrote a letter like that in 3rd grade for Father's Day. My dad framed it and had it in his office. I didn't know. Years later, in college when I came to his office for something, I saw the old Father's Day letter I had written in elementary school. I was so touched he kept it all those years. 

And if you ever need someone to slap you across the computer when you get down yourself, SGW and I are here.


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## Thewife

Thank you for sharing this beautiful story Drerio. The road you and your wife have travelled is not an easy one but you two have made it work so well. What you have gone through in 2003 is not something couples come out of easily but to come out stronger speaks of the strong marriage you have.


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## Thewife

“The flower that blooms in adversity is the rarest and most beautiful of all.”


― Walt Disney Company


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## RedRose14

That's beautiful Drerio, Coffee Amore is right, have the letter and picture framed and put them in a prominent place, letting your son know how much it means to you. Kids always tell it like it is, and your son has just expressed in the most eloquent and articulate way that you are actually the best dad in the world .... it doesn't get any better than that


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## diwali123

I couldn't read it because some video kept playing. Weird. 

Anytime you want a slap let me know. You know I have first hand experience with autism and I know you are doing the best you can. He is lucky to have you two as parents!


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> I couldn't read it because some video kept playing. Weird.
> 
> Anytime you want a slap let me know. You know I have first hand experience with autism and I know you are doing the best you can. He is lucky to have you two as parents!


I think if you clear your cache you can probably see it. Thank you.


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## diwali123

I'm on my phone. How do you do that on your phone?


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## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> I'm on my phone. How do you do that on your phone?


If you are using the tapatalk app you would have to exit TAM, go to the main tapatalk menu setting and there should be a "clear cache" option.

If you are going using a browser app, you need to go to the setting or system setting on your phone to find the clear history and/or cache there.


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## diwali123

Awwwwww.....he is so happy with you. That's wonderful. How can you doubt yourself?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Great letter, d! Really wonderful and I understood all of it. Agree with everyone else that that is 'frame-worthy'. I think it would be something wonderful for BOTH of you!

Great son!
Great dad!

When you get down, then take just ONE sentence and contemplate it for the WHOLE DAY. If you're down again, choose another sentence from the letter and contemplate it for a day! That ought to make you feel perked up right away!

Happy Labor Day to everyone on TAM!


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## meson

drerio said:


> I know it is not what you meant. I just think sometimes if I could have someone shake me and tell me to snap out of it, everything would be better.
> 
> Thank you


The letter is such a touching sentiment! You are super lucky Drerio! 

I'm not sure what you need to be shaken out of but in times like that for me (when everything seems to be a downer) I remember the saying "lucky you live Hawaii". I didn't know how lucky I was. I was spoiled and didn't even know what spring fever really was until much later. It is way too easy to think its just another sh*ty day in paradise. But I see you and your family filled with so much Aloha. Think what it would be like if you didn't have that and hopefully that does the trick. Out here on the East coast we could use a super dose of Aloha... The same problems would be worse without the Aloha of family, friends and strangers.


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## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> Doing some cleaning today and I ran across this and thought I would share it. It is from my youngest son from about a year ago. You have to remember he is dyslexic (currently enrolled in a private school to address this issue). The context of the letter is that he kept begging me to sign him up for flag football. I finally did and he spontaneously just wrote this letter. I know it is hard to read in some areas. I tried to fix it as best I could. The picture I understand, if you want to ask questions, feel free


Oh I can just imagine how that made you feel... we were driving today and "*Cats and The Cradle"* came on the radio... I wanted to turn it ... but instead I let the words penetrate and the faucet flow ... cried like a baby...

This letter ....priceless....straight from the heart of your son....even in his struggle .... he wanted so bad to express to you....that YOU dear DAD...have taken THAT SWEET TIME with him...He knows you care.


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## Ikaika

Facing Demons:

If one had only looked at a still photograph where I grew up you would have said "you grew up in paradise and nothing to worry or complain about". Hidden behind photographs and smiling of faces are demons unknown. As I had mentioned before, my relationship with my parents could best be described as complicated. My reactions to that relationship shaped some of my lifestyle, past and present. In my early years I kept it all close to the vest and probably spoke a total of maybe 10 words each year in school until about seventh grade. Typical of any prepubescent and early puberty boys, I pulled further away from my parents. I found the company of "friends" a better fit than home life. But, I also drew away to the extremes away from my biological family toward my "crew" as family. 

It is hard to describe a surf culture to a lot of people, but it is similar in many ways to an inner city gang. You build what feels like undying loyalties and protection of surf (turf) wars. It comes with both the beauty and freedom of battling against nature and undercurrents of behavior that does not lift one up to their greatest potential, lots of drugs and even violence. 

By age 15 I am not sure I could even think of a day I was not getting "high", pot, magic mushrooms and when my brother and I could sell enough of what we grew other drugs. It deadened the pain and I did not have to cower in silence any longer. I can remember feeling as if this is all I wanted, acceptance. I was too stoned to be a silent frightened child any longer, I had arrived or so I assumed. And, this further solidified my father's abhorrence toward my second oldest brother and I and would often tell us we were a waste of humanity and jails were built for delinquents like us. 

Being one of the younger members of the "crew", I begin to feel abandon and all alone again as I reached 18 years of age and many of our members were taking off for a different life. The toll was costly as well, two had died, and another two were incarcerated (one still is to this day). I was lost. Without the protection of my crew I begin to feel scared again. But, with age and maturity I also had this hunger to prove my father wrong at every step of the way. So drugs did not completely dull every sense of who I was it just took the edge off of thinking too much of what I was or so I thought, a loser. That pretty much had been engrained in my thoughts, that I really could not amount to much even though I wanted to prove otherwise. I also knew I had to extract myself away from the drug aspect of the surf culture. It meant moving far away, making a new life where I could forge a new me. 

September 1980, I enlisted in the US Navy. Most of my drug indulgences were not necessarily to any real addicting substances so leaving it behind was not as hard as I thought. That first year was tough and I took to drinking. Over the course of decades this proved to be a darker demon (trying to extract myself from the bottle) than any other. My second year into the Navy, I felt the need to stay active and started finding ways to of pushing my body. I would exercise as religiously as I used to get high. And, yet again always find it hard to seek any middle ground, always pushing those boundaries. Six months before my four year commitment was up, I took the US Navy SEAL preliminary qualifiers and passed. I was two weeks away from BUDs training before I decided to use money saved and go to college.

Fast forward, to many of the early and mid years of marriage: In the very early years, I was confused. I had a crew back as teenager, but this felt different. A wife someone who lived a very different life than me. I had some underlying anger issues and my reaction often to fights and resentment toward issues with Keiko would be to drink. Sometimes very heavy. I still managed to work hard and study at the things I needed to do, but drinking felt like something I even thought about at work. At this point it was hard to make the excuse that alcohol was deadening any pain in my life. I just did not know. And, then I would go a year without drinking and go back to pushing my body again, exercising to replace something. I played this ping pong match many times during our marriage. There were times my wife could and should have just left me when I would drink heavy. She did not. How could I not love this woman. She has seen me at my worst and loved me through so much. She really deserves someone better than me. 

I struggled off and on with my drinking and yet I don't know if I could call myself an alcoholic based on what I have read. Needless to say I have pretty much decided it was a battle that I did not need to have and have said I will not drink any longer. I have replaced this habit with going back to my healthy lifestyle. Because, there is no substance to take the edge off, I get a bit depressed in thoughts a bit more often nowadays, but I feel more energetic, more love toward my family and life on most days truly worth living. My only regret is that I have not always been the father I should have been to my sons. I would be a liar if I said I did not have regrets, I do. I know I should not look in the rear view mirror. I still do and see my father, but I am getting better.


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## Coffee Amore

A really personal post, drerio. Thanks for sharing that frank and very honest post.

So when you say you were two weeks away from BUDS training does that mean you passed the crazy wake up early, lie down in the freezing water while holding a log type of stuff?


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> A really personal post, drerio. Thanks for sharing that frank and very honest post.
> 
> So when you say you were two weeks away from BUDS training does that mean you passed the crazy wake up early, lie down in the freezing water while holding a log type of stuff?


I did not actually enter BUDs training so I was never a trainee. There are preliminaries one has to go through to check for physical preparedness. The training is costly and you can imagine that the Navy does not want to waste money on someone who can't even make the first hour of training. This does is not suggest I would have even made it. The drop out rate is very high and not necessarily even based on physical attributes, it is a mental challenge as well. 

But yes, part of the pre-qualifiers involved some pretty harsh stuff. One advantage I had was my comfort level in the water that others did not have but I never regret the decision. 

So the log stuff, that is actual BUDs training, I did not enter that phase.


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## Ikaika

One quick note on my own experience in fatherhood:

I worry every day about my sons, a lot. It may not even be healthy, but like everyone knows making a life for yourself and independent living at just the basic level can be hard. 

For my oldest, Kenji, it is especially worrisome given his disability with autism. I see him struggle in so many ways, socially, behaviorally and academically. It leaves me to believe he may never get to a point of independent living. I feel like I have failed him, and I sometimes wake up at night and just cry (I don't mean figuratively, literally). I just don't know what his future holds and I know that there are not too many who would have compassion for him as I would. I have said this to some in life and I sometimes mean it - I would hope that Kenji would die one day before myself and/or my wife. I guess, I don't hold out hope that anyone else will care for him the way we would. If you want to understand true love, love a child with autism. They do not reciprocate as your average person. They are often not likable given their deficits with socializing. I love him, I truly do, but I fear very few would and then what will happen when I am gone. I cry. 

For my youngest, Ryo, his major issue is with his dyslexia. He functions two grade levels above in math but four and half grades below in reading. We have him in a Private school to sort through this issue. It straps up financially (the school is nearly $20K/year) but it is well worth it in our minds. I will move mountains and sacrifice to see him blossom. He can, he has the potential. But, I worry more about the temptations life offers kids these days (I am not even sure it is any different than when I was a kid, but my perception still prevails) and can he find the power to withstand these pressures. My worries for him are like those of other parents for their children. But, again I also feel so many times that I have failed him as well. He is behind (reading) and what have I done to help him? I have tried but failed.

I know it is somewhat unfounded but I consider myself an utter failure as a father.


----------



## diwali123

Drerio have you considered taking an antidepressant? You sound so depressed and like you have a long history of self medicating.


----------



## CharlieParker

drerio said:


> I worry every day about my sons, a lot.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I know it is somewhat unfounded but I consider myself an utter failure as a father.


Your first and last sentences don't compute.


----------



## Ikaika

diwali123 said:


> Drerio have you considered taking an antidepressant? You sound so depressed and like you have a long history of self medicating.


I do see a professional therapist once every two weeks at current. His take is try non-medicinal approach right now.


----------



## Ikaika

CharlieParker said:


> Your first and last sentences don't compute.


It does look foolish in that context. I know there are things beyond my control but I want to assume I have powers beyond my means. Only thing I can assume for the oxymoron in juxtaposing those statements.


----------



## angelpixie

D, you outlined so many things you are doing for your boys. DOING, not just paying lip service. You are helping them. Things that we try don't always work, but that doesn't mean that YOU have failed. You are making sacrifices to put Ryo in the private school, you have shown Kenji love and compassion that most parents would have run out of long ago. I have friends with autistic kids, and I truly admire them and you. It is not an easy road. 

But you will NEVER be a failure because you have loved, and tried, and sacrificed. ACTS of love, not just words of love. I'm sorry that Kenji cannot show you his love and appreciation, but go back and read Ryo's letter. He doesn't think you are a failure. Far from it.


----------



## Ikaika

Thank you everyone, gawd I have to regain some composure... have a lecture to give in ten minutes. A little hard to do with swollen eyes.


----------



## Ikaika

Poor Ryo, starts his day on the bus at 6:50am and does not get off the but till 4:30pm. Long day for a kid his age. I told him get used to it, work days can be longer. Fortunately he made a friend on the bus (same class) and they do their homework together. I check it, seems mostly correct. And, I drill him to make sure he did not just copy the other kids work.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Great posts, drerio!

Re: Keiko...luckily *you* don't get to decide what she "deserves". She does. And she's decided she deserves YOU (and vice versa).

RE: Kenji...I can truly understand how it must hurt to worry that no-one will love/care about him like you and Keiko do when you're both gone. Part of it will be on Ryo and, as for the rest of it, all you can do is plan financially as much as possible and look for housing/work/lifestyle opportunities for him. I'm sure you're both doing as much as ANYBODY could to ensure a safe, happy future for him.

Re: Ryo...He'll get there! MANY people have overcome dyslexia to achieve GREATLY. Whether he lives an ordinary, quiet life or goes on to extraordinary heights, he'll make his own way like so many others with dyslexia. He'll find ways to cope and having loving parents who help him learn to cope NOW will only make him stronger!

Peace to all the drerio family! Have a WONDERFUL joy-filled weekend!


----------



## meson

Drerio, your facing demons post was very insightful. The baggage of our previous lives will impact our marriages greatly. If we have not resolve who we are and integrated ourselves with our spouses there will be significant conflict. This was true in my marriage as well.

Your depiction of the surf subculture is spot on from what I knew growing up ther as well. People don't realize how accessible that stuff is to everyone on the islands. The field next to my Elementary School had magic mushrooms for the picking if you could outrun the bulls. The accessibility drags down so many with it. One of my childhood friends is still in jail as well. His parents and grandparents owned the land they had and subsistence fished. His longtime girfriend was killed in a car accident and like you to cope he turned to drugs. He took to dealing for extra cash because he didn't want to work and dealing was easy. He nearly caused the loss of the family home by it and his grief. Their house is one of the houses shown in my profile picture.

Hawaii does not isolate you from the tragedies of life and it exposes you to some better left alone. You have done well to have self motivated yourself to escape what is a common fate for many on the islands. My hat is off to you Drerio.


----------



## Ikaika

Felt I needed to do a complementary blog in order to address the particulars in raising a son with ASD. If you are interested, come and join us. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/showthread.php?t=117489

I will keep both blogs as active as I can. Sometimes it will feel like a blend but will do my best to differentiate the topics.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

angelpixie said:


> D, you outlined so many things you are doing for your boys. DOING, not just paying lip service. You are helping them. Things that we try don't always work, but that doesn't mean that YOU have failed. You are making sacrifices to put Ryo in the private school, you have shown Kenji love and compassion that most parents would have run out of long ago. I have friends with autistic kids, and I truly admire them and you. It is not an easy road.
> 
> But you will NEVER be a failure because you have loved, and tried, and sacrificed. ACTS of love, not just words of love. I'm sorry that Kenji cannot show you his love and appreciation, but go back and read Ryo's letter. He doesn't think you are a failure. Far from it.


I love this post :smthumbup:.. 

Really Drerio , please hear me....hard as it may be at times, it is so easy to focus on the negative, I do wonder if you have a primarily Melancholy temperament, this is one of the weaknesses (I am secondary so I should know, I can be very pessimistic when I am down)...

Even if you have to write snippets of praiseworthy things around your house... do it ! FOCUS on the good... I realize this is no comparison for you... but in my younger years in the DESERT of infertility (no walk has been harder on me)... find inspirational sayings if you have to, type them up, place them in various places around the house - to read on a daily basis... 

I did this with scriptures years ago - to keep my HOPE alive.....so I would not drown in negativity...which only caused me to be grouchy with my husband....

Don't slap me cyberspace wise for this scripture (I know you are an Atheist)... but still...there is emotional healing if we focus our minds on the whatever is Good, Praiseworthy ...it has the power to lift our spirits...










I am in awe of your deep love for your sons, with all the challenges you face on a daily basis with your oldest son .... You ARE a very special father ....who has planted his feet come hell or high water to take care of his son... your love is so strong it hurts to imagine you not being there for him.... I get this from your words...where many would have taken flight...and never looked back... to weak, too selfish to deal with the reality of his issues .....it being TOO MUCH for them.... You didn't do this... sure you might have gotten caught up in some addictions, drinking, drowning your sorrows (I can sure see someone wanting to run from all that!)... 

But you are THERE, you take the *time*, sure you get angry now & then & miss it ... we all do ! Is anything more important at the end of the day...... not $$ we throw at our kids, not how successful we are.. but the *time* we put into them, TIME SPENT....(hint hint, I need to listen to myself here)...

....You are a Great Father Drerio...keep the spirits up !


----------



## Ikaika

Don't worry SA, I am not militant about being a non-believer. Thank you, your response was heartfelt.


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## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> Don't worry SA, I am not militant about being a non-believer. Thank you, your response was heartfelt.


I know you are not, always graceful, have always appreciated this from you.... As some of the attitudes I read on this forum against any form of belief - makes me want to defend the religious minded...even though I am (now) a "Free thinker" pretty much... don't like either view slashed with a broad brush. It's good to meet in the middle somewhere -if at all possible... acknowledge the good instead of rushing to burn it all to the ground -without listening.


----------



## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> I know you are not, always graceful, have always appreciated this from you.... As some of the attitudes I read on this forum against any form of belief - makes me want to defend the religious minded...even though I am (now) a "Free thinker" pretty much... don't like either view slashed with a broad brush. It's good to meet in the middle somewhere -if at all possible... acknowledge the good instead of rushing to burn it all to the ground -without listening.


My sense has always, if a person is real in their convictions, I have respect for them and their views. After all who am I to judge another person. And, I see you as one with those convictions. I have nothing but respect for you. Again, thank you, it means a lot.

I learned a lot about love from my oldest son. To love and hardly feel reciprocation. This is not to pat myself on the back, because it is still a learning process.


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## Ikaika

Sometimes my worst enemy is just sitting and thinking. Nothing on TAM or at work or at home, just sitting here in pain. No reason to be, just that nagging internal pain. I nearly got up just a moment ago to head down to the store and buy me something to drink to take the edge off. I know no one is up and listening, it is after all an ungodly hour. I just wish these moments would leave. 

Sometimes I wonder what is the point.


----------



## RedRose14

drerio said:


> Sometimes my worst enemy is just sitting and thinking. Nothing on TAM or at work or at home, just sitting here in pain. No reason to be, just that nagging internal pain. I nearly got up just a moment ago to head down to the store and buy me something to drink to take the edge off. I know no one is up and listening, it is after all an ungodly hour. I just wish these moments would leave.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder what is the point.


I'm here Drerio, it's 10 am in the morning here, I don't know what time it is there ... hopefully you are fast asleep now and having peaceful sweet dreams.

Well done for resisting the urge to get some drink. You do sound so down and I'm sorry you feel this way, I know it's easier said than done, but just remind yourself that "this moment will pass" when you feel down, try not to dwell on it.

You know what the point is ... it's your wonderful family, your lovely wife and your fabulous children .... you are a special family unit Drerio!

Big hugs to you from across the pond x


----------



## CharlieParker

Not exactly the same thing but when we quit smoking there were naturally moments of weakness. One more than one occasion I said "look, I can go to store right, do you want that? Is that going to make it better?" 

I hope today is better for you. Back from your run yet?


----------



## meson

drerio said:


> Sometimes my worst enemy is just sitting and thinking. Nothing on TAM or at work or at home, just sitting here in pain. No reason to be, just that nagging internal pain. I nearly got up just a moment ago to head down to the store and buy me something to drink to take the edge off. I know no one is up and listening, it is after all an ungodly hour. I just wish these moments would leave.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder what is the point.


This is not productive. A better position to take is for you to decide what the point will be for you. You are doing well by your son as the above letter indicates.. This is a lot more than many can achieve. I don't know what your pain is from but it sounds like its causing some depression. The last time I had depression, I asked for help from my wife and she was there and made it easier to get over by adding some enjoyment. Find some enjoyment. I hear the surf is up, try going out and catching a few. Nothing like being in the water to put perspective on things.


----------



## angelpixie

D, go back and look at those articles and links I sent you. I really think it describes these times that you have. It doesn't have to continue like this and, most importantly, you don't have to keep hurting like this. Talk to your IC about it, please.


----------



## Ikaika

angelpixie said:


> D, go back and look at those articles and links I sent you. I really think it describes these times that you have. It doesn't have to continue like this and, most importantly, you don't have to keep hurting like this. Talk to your IC about it, please.


You are right. I am just stupid and tend to fall back onto bad "temptations", "thinking processes", etc whatever you want to call it. Came home from work early today, to collect my thoughts. I need to not let this affect my family. Will definitely workout with my oldest son later, that usually is good for both of us.


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## Ikaika

My wife stopped by on her way to see her final client of the day. She gave me this



















 I feel much better


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

YAY! Smart wife there, drerio, but you already KNEW that!


----------



## meson

Super nice present from your wife Drerio! I'm glad it helped. You are very lucky!


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## diwali123

That's sweet!


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## angelpixie

And an excellent choice, too, I might add, not that I would know anything about chocolate...


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## Coffee Amore

Me neither. I have no expertise in chocolate, but weirdly I know their toffee and almonds in milk chocolate flavor shown in the yellow wrapper is delicious too.


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## Ikaika

I got it, everyone wants me to share. You can all have a virtual piece 

BTW, it was really good.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Well, then, you're virtually thanked.


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## angelpixie

It was virtually yummy, and I especially appreciate that it only has virtual calories.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

....um, unfortunately it made ME go get some less-virtual dark chocolate which had REAL calories (but real taste, too!)


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> ....um, unfortunately it made ME go get some less-virtual dark chocolate which had REAL calories (but real taste, too!)


Of course this also means I need to filter all future pics on this thread since they could have too much influence over others


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

yes, apparently we're weak-minded individuals........


...or lemmings!


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## Ikaika

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> yes, apparently we're weak-minded individuals........
> 
> 
> ...or lemmings!


:rofl:


----------



## Ikaika

On serious note. All of you know how much I love my wife, but I just want to tell all of you as my friends, how much I really appreciate you. 

Thank you very much and to you much Aloha. 

Don't worry, another chapter will be uploaded soon


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## diwali123

Thanks. It's hard for me to read what you write because I can feel the depression and it's really hard.


----------



## 2ntnuf

drerio said:


> One quick note on my own experience in fatherhood:
> 
> I worry every day about my sons, a lot. It may not even be healthy, but like everyone knows making a life for yourself and independent living at just the basic level can be hard.
> 
> For my oldest, Kenji, it is especially worrisome given his disability with autism. I see him struggle in so many ways, socially, behaviorally and academically. It leaves me to believe he may never get to a point of independent living. I feel like I have failed him, and I sometimes wake up at night and just cry (I don't mean figuratively, literally). I just don't know what his future holds and I know that there are not too many who would have compassion for him as I would. I have said this to some in life and I sometimes mean it - I would hope that Kenji would die one day before myself and/or my wife. I guess, I don't hold out hope that anyone else will care for him the way we would. If you want to understand true love, love a child with autism. They do not reciprocate as your average person. They are often not likable given their deficits with socializing. I love him, I truly do, but I fear very few would and then what will happen when I am gone. I cry.
> 
> For my youngest, Ryo, his major issue is with his dyslexia. He functions two grade levels above in math but four and half grades below in reading. We have him in a Private school to sort through this issue. It straps up financially (the school is nearly $20K/year) but it is well worth it in our minds. I will move mountains and sacrifice to see him blossom. He can, he has the potential. But, I worry more about the temptations life offers kids these days (I am not even sure it is any different than when I was a kid, but my perception still prevails) and can he find the power to withstand these pressures. My worries for him are like those of other parents for their children. But, again I also feel so many times that I have failed him as well. He is behind (reading) and what have I done to help him? I have tried but failed.
> 
> *I know it is somewhat unfounded but I consider myself an utter failure as a father.*


No way. You are playing a hand of cards you have been dealt. You make the decision to hold or draw. You make the decision to bet or not and how much. What happens next is out of your control. It depends on what cards are left in the deck and what cards other players have. You cannot know all. No, sorry, I won't believe it. I refuse.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Sometimes, when quitting a habit or addiction, it is helpful to replace it with something else. *Edit:* Like when quitting smoking, it helps to do something like read for a few minutes at critical times after having a meal or early in the morning when you first awake. Those times which are most difficult. I don't mean replace with another bad habit. hahaha

Hopefully, when you get to the point that you feel like you have too much time to think, you will be able to recognize it early and fill that space in time with something meaningful like making something with your hands to relieve some stress. Just a thought. I have best wishes at heart.


----------



## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> Sometimes, when quitting a habit or addiction, it is helpful to replace it with something else. *Edit:* Like when quitting smoking, it helps to do something like read for a few minutes at critical times after having a meal or early in the morning when you first awake. Those times which are most difficult. I don't mean replace with another bad habit. hahaha
> 
> Hopefully, when you get to the point that you feel like you have too much time to think, you will be able to recognize it early and fill that space in time with something meaningful like making something with your hands to relieve some stress. Just a thought. I have best wishes at heart.


Fortunately I have been able to replace drinking with exercise. So, I have not had any drink for almost a year now and I plan to keep it that way for decades to come. 

Thank you


----------



## Ikaika

I listened to the first story listed here, the one title "I remember counting the beer bottles". And, I cried, literally cried, I could hear myself in this man's voice. I want to be as strong as him. I want to be as good a father as he is given his background. I cried.

http://storycorps.org/listen/?show=featured


----------



## meson

drerio said:


> I listened to the first story listed here, the one title "I remember counting the beer bottles". And, I cried, literally cried, I could hear myself in this man's voice. I want to be as strong as him. I want to be as good a father as he is given his background. I cried.
> 
> StoryCorps | Listen to Stories


Hele on braddah, you're there!


----------



## 2ntnuf

You are way too hard on yourself. Seems like you look at everything as if it has to be a difficult extremely dedicated pursuit. If you accidentally run into some fun along the way, it's all good, but you seem to have to make everything a chore. I don't think everything should be taken lightly, but I think letting things be fun and not so serious all the time would give you much less stress. 

My hope for you is that you will see that because life is so short, we all need to have some fun and enjoy it as well as be the best we can. I think you've gotten the second part down pretty well. I think you need a little relaxation and fun for yourself. 

I hope I'm wrong about this.


----------



## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> You are way too hard on yourself. Seems like you look at everything as if it has to be a difficult extremely dedicated pursuit. If you accidentally run into some fun along the way, it's all good, but you seem to have to make everything a chore. I don't think everything should be taken lightly, but I think letting things be fun and not so serious all the time would give you much less stress.
> 
> My hope for you is that you will see that because life is so short, we all need to have some fun and enjoy it as well as be the best we can. I think you've gotten the second part down pretty well. I think you need a little relaxation and fun for yourself.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong about this.


Let's just say, I grew up living, always, on the edge of my seat. It was not healthy and at times continues to be the yolk around my kneck. 

I am working on it and I'm conscious not to burden my wife and sons with it. I don't want them to think they have to walk on eggshells and not enjoy life. It is part of the journey.


----------



## 2galsmom

Well Mr. and Mrs. dreio thank you for your pleasant thread of marriage success and chocolate. It is a breath of fresh air.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I didn't get any chocolate. Just a craving. Why are you thanking him for having a craving with no chocolate? hahahaha Teasing you drerio.


----------



## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> I didn't get any chocolate. Just a craving. Why are you thanking him for having a craving with no chocolate? hahahaha Teasing you drerio.


I gave everyone a virtual bite, ask Angel. It even came with virtual calories.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> I listened to the first story listed here, the one title "I remember counting the beer bottles". And, I cried, literally cried, I could hear myself in this man's voice. I want to be as strong as him. I want to be as good a father as he is given his background. I cried.
> 
> StoryCorps | Listen to Stories


I listened .....you know what they say, it's not how the story begins... but what you learn along the way...how it affects your life for change...and really...how you exit - will you have fought "the good fight"...leaving those around you missing you terribly because you have been "an anchor" in there lives.









Excuse me for all of these quotes... I got a thing for looking stuff up when I have a thought in my head..... I liked this one real well ...for you... as no matter your struggle, you are determined to conquer these demons...you keep pushing on...

I'm sure writing about it so openly has helped you even...and having your wife by your side throughout ALL......she had & still has great faith in you...


----------



## sandc

Enjoy your happily-ever-after. Your story is what that is. Loving each other even through the hard times IS happily-ever-after.

Aloha.


----------



## Coffee Amore

You're going to update this soon, aren't you?


----------



## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> You're going to update this soon, aren't you?


I will. In fact, Monday I was working on the next draft (offline). Got a bit sidetracked by work and other things. But, I will update


----------



## Coffee Amore

You must be updating this on Hawaiian Time, drerio!


----------



## LanieB

Drerio is too busy with Mrs. Drerio to update the thread!


----------



## Ikaika

Ok, today I have some time.


----------



## TikiKeen

I was sent here by another member and will spend my afternoon gaining hope from you drerio. Our stories are similar.


----------



## Ikaika

TikiKeen said:


> I was sent here by another member and will spend my afternoon gaining hope from you drerio. Our stories are similar.


Please feel free to give inserts. I certainly don't have all the answers and it is still a journey for us.


----------



## Ikaika

The Quiet Years (short update)

Since 2008, our years of marriage have been quiet but meaningful. There have been no major projects, no earth shattering news and things seemed and continue to be moving in very positive ways. In no way does this suggest boredom or loss of intimacy or loss of interest in each other - quite the opposite. Most of our issues have focused on our son, Kenji and the challenges of raising a son with ASD. 

It is not as if things have not happened in these previous years that could have brought our marriage down. My future updates to this journey will be thematic. Picking issues that we seem as common place in marriage. Using our marriage as a microcosm to the issue and how we have or continue to work on things.

ETA: and yes my Avatar resembles our marriage, the Neanderthal tamed by the civilized human woman.


----------



## Coffee Amore

I was about to ask you if that was a Neanderthal in your avatar.

To what do you attribute all the good years you've had since 2008?


----------



## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> I was about to ask you if that was a Neanderthal in your avatar.
> 
> To what do you attribute all the good years you've had since 2008?


That will be the themes.


----------



## Ikaika

Feel bad. I kind of blew my top at my wife this morning. She sometimes has difficulty sleeping so I know she tired and made a comment, I followed up with way more fire power than was appropriate to her initial comment. 

In hind site, I just need to temper my responses. I'm not as smart as some may assume. I have so much more to learn.


----------



## Ikaika

Follow up, lunch together. Smooch and make up. I of course need to apologize.


----------



## meson

We all make mistakes and have our bad days. I'm sure that she will understand once you let her know how unintended it was. I'm guilty of doing the same every once in awhile.


----------



## RedRose14

I'm guilty of the odd inappropriate fiery response too Drerio (only very very rarely of course), it's normal, but a nice cuddle and an apology and all is forgiven pretty quickly.

I sympathise with Mrs Drerio, I have phases where my sleep is inadequate too, and when it goes on for too long it's not nice.

Still looking forward to hearing more of your journey .... thanking you in anticipation


----------



## Coffee Amore

I think by Christmas drerio will gift us with an update to this thread. I just know it.


----------



## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> I think by Christmas drerio will gift us with an update to this thread. I just know it.


I will, it is just the final weeks of every semester is always busy, busy busy. I will be done by at least the 17th. Then I will have time to deal with new chapters


----------



## Ikaika

*Anniversary is today:*

I am a little reluctant to post this and by no means am I trying rub any salt in any wounds (fresh or old). So, 19 years ago today at almost this very moment (as I write this), I exchanged my wedding vows with my wife at Turtle Bay Hilton, on the North Shore of O'ahu. The day was beautiful the setting was gorgeous; a simple ceremony and reception that still hold strong and special memories for both of us. And, though this is a busy time and a busy day, we have always set aside time for each other on this day. We may not have always celebrated with huge fan fare, but even just a simple evening after the boys are asleep wrapping presents and lying under the tree. Other times we spent quiet dinners together. And, we have even done family dinning with the boys. Last year, my wife surprised me: we went back out to Turtle Bay to their fine dinning restaurant to enjoy a relaxing meal together. Tonight, my turn to surprise her and take her to place she has always wanted to go, 3660 On the Rise. For me, this is my Christmas more than Christmas Day itself. Christmas Day is important but that is about family, today is about us as a couple. 

The scene for our wedding was something. An open chapel and where the audience was situated, they had a view of us and the surf in the distance. And, on that day there was a North Swell. Even my oldest brother admitted he spent more time checking out the surf and surfers than "the couple" front and center. At one point during the exchanging of vows, the official conducting the ceremony even goofed a bit and asked my wife if she would "take me to be her lawfully wedded wife". Some heard it in the front row and there was a bit of chuckle but it is always something we remember with a smile and laugh. During the reception we chose not to put on some elaborate program, we really just wanted our guest to feel relaxed. Our table was not on the stage but near the front center on the same level as everyone else. We had no interest in being the center of attention; it was just chance to share in on our special day without any big fuss. I hope to be able to renew our vows at the same location six years from now on our 25th anniversary. And like that original ceremony, we will stay the in a room (boys will have to go home with my SIL ). Unfortunately we will never have the opportunity to stay at the Hotel in Kona where we spent our Honeymoon, it has since been torn down. That is Ok, we might even relive the Honeymoon, only we will take the boys along with us. 



*Humor:*

I won't say that this is something magical or "the thing" that can make a marriage last, but it can go a long way in facilitating the lasting of marriage. It is humor. The one thing we have always been able to do even today, is make each other laugh. The laughter can be focused around a number of things and at times we laugh at each other, but never in a mean-spirited manner. What goes along with this is even the ability to laugh at shared experiences in our lives. While we never knew each other growing up we are about the same age and both grew up in Hawai'i. That share experience can be a source of laughter itself. Laughter, like storytelling and food is a rich shared experience that to me is just as important as intimacy. And, in all of these we share so much in common. Today, I count myself as a very lucky man.


----------



## sandc

Happy Anniversary!


----------



## Coffee Amore

Lovely! Happy anniversary to you both. 



drerio said:


> *Humor:*
> 
> I won't say that this is something magical or "the thing" that can make a marriage last, but it can go a long way in facilitating the lasting of marriage. It is humor. The one thing we have always been able to do even today, is make each other laugh. The laughter can be focused around a number of things and at times we laugh at each other, but never in a mean-spirited manner. What goes along with this is even the ability to laugh at shared experiences in our lives. While we never knew each other growing up we are about the same age and both grew up in Hawai'i. That share experience can be a source of laughter itself. Laughter, like storytelling and food is a rich shared experience that to me is just as important as intimacy. And, in all of these we share so much in common. Today, I count myself as a very lucky man.


I agree. Laughter is a key factor in a good marriage. The ability to not take yourself too seriously goes a long way in life.


----------



## rush

Happy Anniversary! I just found this thread,,,,,fantastic journey!


----------



## Ikaika

Tonight's Christmas Eve Menu at 3660 On The Rise:

Christmas Eve Dinner Buffet

Tuesday, December 24 - 5:00 - 8:00 pm

Menu Highlights

Mesclun of Greens, Lemon Miso Dressing
Oysters on the Half Shell
Tofu Bar
Asian Slaw with Char Siu
Broccoli & Imitation Crab Salad
Greek Style Salad
Assorted Poke

Szechuan Pork with Vegetables
Pan Seared Salmon with Black Bean Sauce
Braised Boneless Beef Ribs with Truffle Jus
White Beans & Smoked Sausage

Carving:
Roast Prime Rib of Beef

Holiday Dessert Delights

I will upload pics of the meal


----------



## rush

wow, a meal to remember


----------



## angelpixie

I'm glad you posted this, D. Don't ever feel bad about your marriage because of the other experiences people have shared here. Those of us who are your friends will feel nothing but joy for you and Mrs. D. It is lovely to see a couple who have made it through the trials and tribulations of life, still in love, and still standing by each other. 

Merry Christmas to you, Mrs. D, and the little D's!! and Happy Anniversary, too.


----------



## CharlieParker

Happy anniversary!!! Merry Christmas. Thank you.



drerio said:


> I will upload pics of the meal


----------



## TBT

Happy anniversary Mr.and Mrs.D.:smthumbup:


----------



## 2ntnuf

happy anniversary mr. And mrs. Drerio!

and many more!


----------



## Ikaika

Forgot to take a pic of my salad plate.


----------



## Ikaika

Slowing down, my third plate.


----------



## Ikaika

Always room for sweets


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Belated Happy Anniversary, Mr. & Mrs. drerio!

Hope you had a WONDERFUL day and evening! Enjoy the work-break and the New Year festivities!

~SGW & BG


----------



## CharlieParker

How was the tofu bar?


----------



## Ikaika

CharlieParker said:


> How was the tofu bar?



It was good. Forgot to take a pic. It was tofu with different toppings, seasoned seaweed, fish flakes, ginger, etc, and two different sauces. 

The meal was fantastic with first class service.


----------



## Ikaika

The best part was the company I shared the evening with.


----------



## jld

Happy Anniversary! And thanks for posting the pictures!


----------



## angelpixie

Wow, everything sure looked yummy! (I knew I picked a bad week to start dieting...)


----------



## LanieB

Congratulations, and happy anniversary, Drerio!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Well this is belated...as I just noticed this...










Oh that food looks so healthy and nourishing for your bodies :smthumbup:... .. I want to thank you Drerio for taking the time with me... my health posts ...I need to get back there sometime, you have probably responded & I've been slacking...... been pigging out.. badly ....too many cookies, chocolate kisses in this house.... Holidays are too much food temptation.



> *Drerio said: **It was tofu with different toppings, seasoned seaweed, fish flakes, ginger, etc, and two different sauces.*


 I've never eaten seaweed...what does this taste like - endive in wedding soup or something...you guys ought to live forever...


----------



## Ikaika

Thank you everyone for well wishes and blessings. 

Oh and SA, seaweed, it is not just pure seaweed it is seasoned with salt and chili pepper; it is dried so it has a crunch to it. I don't think I could describe the taste, but it really is good. And, yes it is healthy.


----------



## Mzflower

Looks like a wonderful night. Happy Anniversary.


----------



## 2ntnuf

All this time off and I was expecting a flurry of activity here. Guess all those sweets took their toll on you? Maybe it was Mrs. Drerio? Either way, it's not fair to those of us waiting semi-patiently for more.


----------



## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> All this time off and I was expecting a flurry of activity here. Guess all those sweets took their toll on you? Maybe it was Mrs. Drerio? Either way, it's not fair to those of us waiting semi-patiently for more.


There will be more. After I finished grading, the flurry of Christmas hit. Now it is slowing down.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Thinking Incomplete rubber stamp with ink blotter............hahahaha just kidding I don't mean to start a riot.


----------



## Coffee Amore

I'm sure the grades must be turned in by now, right? Even if you are working on Hawaiian Time. lol


----------



## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> I'm sure the grades must be turned in by now, right? Even if you are working on Hawaiian Time. lol



I wrote a new chapter. I Guess I should read through it edit and post.


----------



## Coffee Amore

Sounds good. Post it by next Saturday...


----------



## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> Sounds good. Post it by next Saturday...



Yes ma'am


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Your paper is tardy, Professor Drerio!

(we'll be deducting 10 points for each day it's late!)


----------



## Coffee Amore

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Your paper is tardy, Professor Drerio!
> 
> (we'll be deducting 10 points for each day it's late!)


We should make him do about 50 push-ups too. And not the modified type either.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I wonder how many red markers he goes through in a year? hmm.....maybe that's a good investment opportunity?..........nah


----------



## Ikaika

Just in a down spot right now. It is not with our marriage, it is with Kenji. I just need time to regroup. He is regressing in a bad way and just need time to collect my thoughts at the moment.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Thank you. I'm sorry for you, Kenji and your family. My thoughts, and prayers, whether you believe or not, are with you and your family. It's all I can give.


----------



## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> Thank you. I'm sorry for you, Kenji and your family. My thoughts, and prayers, whether you believe or not, are with you and your family. It's all I can give.



I appreciated it very much, thank you.


----------



## sandc

Sorry to read this. Just said a prayer for you and your famly.


----------



## Coffee Amore

drerio said:


> Just in a down spot right now. It is not with our marriage, it is with Kenji. I just need time to regroup. He is regressing in a bad way and just need time to collect my thoughts at the moment.


I'm sorry to hear it. Sometimes love alone isn't enough, is it? Your family will get through this. I know it. I hope it happens very soon.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Drerio....There are no words..so hard when it's your child....I can not imagine what you emotionally carry on a day to day, hourly to hourly basis... caring for your son as you do.... during these difficult times that come.....my heart goes out to you, Kenji , your family..


----------



## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> Drerio....There are no words..so hard when it's your child....I can not imagine what you emotionally carry on a day to day, hourly to hourly basis... caring for your son as you do.... during these difficult times that come.....my heart goes out to you, Kenji , your family..


Thank you


----------



## CharlieParker

Think of you. I can't even imagine.


----------



## sandc

Feel free to come to the Autism Monster Bar and Grill thread to vent and have a drink.


----------



## Ikaika

sandc said:


> Feel free to come to the Autism Monster Bar and Grill thread to vent and have a drink.


I will, although I do have an ongoing Kenji Journey thread in the same sub-forum.

Thank you all for your support and kind words.


----------



## Mzflower

Drerio, 

You, Kenji and your family are in our prayers. Sending you all strength and hugs.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Hugs all around! And don't forget to get some from Mrs D. Sounds like you could all use them!


*HUGS*


----------



## heartsbeating

Thinking of you drerio.


----------



## Ikaika

heartsbeating said:


> Thinking of you drerio.


Thank you guys so much


----------



## Ikaika

I could bought some chocolate covered strawberries. I'm sure they would have looked nicer, but made these with my own hands.


----------



## 2galsmom

Well they look lovely! 

I came to this thread due to your shameless self-promotion in the Singles Thread (which I completely admire and approve of) and so viola! Happy Valentine's Day Mr. and Mrs. Drerio!


----------



## Ikaika

So my youngest son woke up early this morning. He decided to set up a romantic breakfast for his mom and dad (us), this morning:





It looks dark because he turned down the lighting (dimmer switch).


----------



## Coffee Amore

Nutella and toast...yum!


----------



## Jellybeans

That is so sweet your youngest did that!!!

How nice!

Hope you and Mrs. Drerio had a beautiful Valentine's Day


----------



## CharlieParker

So sweet. 







Activia :rofl:, yup he is your son.


----------



## Ikaika

Jellybeans said:


> That is so sweet your youngest did that!!!
> 
> How nice!
> 
> Hope you and Mrs. Drerio had a beautiful Valentine's Day



He is training to be a thoughtful husband someday


----------



## Jellybeans

Yeah he is! He is learning from the best! 

Lol about it being Nutella. I saw chocolate and thought--that is odd that drerio would have some chocolate in his house. Hahaha.


----------



## Ikaika

Oh yea, and the song was playing while we enjoyed breakfast

http://youtu.be/COiIC3A0ROM


----------



## Jellybeans

I love Al Green! That is a great song!


----------



## 2ntnuf

Couple of questions, that I don't need answers for. 

1. Is he alright? Not that I don't think it was nice and sweet. It was wonderful. It could just be me, but I remember you talking about him not getting as much attention as he would like due to circumstances beyond your control. 

2. Is he reaching out to you two for love and attention?

3. Are you and Mrs. drerio doing alright? Do you need a vacation, alone, together, fun, relaxing, romantic, etc? 

It could just be me, but I would feel bad if I didn't bring up what I thought. Might be from being here so long, too.


----------



## Ikaika

2ntnuf said:


> Couple of questions, that I don't need answers for.
> 
> 1. Is he alright? Not that I don't think it was nice and sweet. It was wonderful. It could just be me, but I remember you talking about him not getting as much attention as he would like due to circumstances beyond your control.
> 
> 2. Is he reaching out to you two for love and attention?
> 
> 3. Are you and Mrs. drerio doing alright? Do you need a vacation, alone, together, fun, relaxing, romantic, etc?
> 
> It could just be me, but I would feel bad if I didn't bring up what I thought. Might be from being here so long, too.


1 & 2. he is fine, he is a sensitive kid and senses things. We have had some issues dealing with our older son and my yougner son sees the stress and I just wanted to do something for us.

3. We would love to have more time together. And, sometimes we do get a reprieve when my SIL comes over to watch the boys. 

Thank you for asking.


----------



## 2galsmom

What a beautiful gesture from your son! Well done happy family.


----------



## angelpixie

That is awesome, drerio! To me, one of the things I'd hoped my husband (whoever he would be) would do would be to act as a good model of a man/husband/father to any children we might have. The fact that your son made the choice to do _anything_ for you and his mom _at all_, much less something so sweet and thoughtful, right down to the awesome song, is a testament to him and to you as a father. He is learning from the best!


----------



## Ikaika

Thank you Angel for the kind words.


----------



## meson

drerio said:


> I could bought some chocolate covered strawberries. I'm sure they would have looked nicer, but made these with my own hands.


Very nice!


----------



## Mzflower

Awww! What a sweetie . can just imagine how proud he was...love it!! And GREAT job on the chocolate covered strawberries! 




drerio said:


> So my youngest son woke up early this morning. He decided to set up a romantic breakfast for his mom and dad (us), this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks dark because he turned down the lighting (dimmer switch).


----------



## Ikaika

Keiko and I were sitting around talking and realized just how important her family has been to the success of our marriage. One of the biggest favors my SIL and MIL do is to watch our autistic child from time to time to give us respite time. A time we can both share to keep our marriage strong. So this is dedicated to them, our support. I don't believe we could be boasting about a long-term successful marriage without my in-laws. Ohana, so important and I can't begin to sing their praises enough. 

They care for our sons without judgement and with love.


----------



## Coffee Amore

March is here...maybe a March update..?


----------



## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> March is here...maybe a March update..?


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Still here, still waiting patiently. Can imagine how many irons you have in the fire!

Hope all is well with the drerio family!

.


----------



## Ikaika

I will update this again soon, just had a lot on my plate lately. In the meantime this is a dedication to my lovely wife:

Honey Baby- Three Plus - YouTube

For those who have never seen my honey baby she is in my album (profile).


----------



## Ikaika

This could easily be places in either of the journey threads I have active:

So an interesting update in our lives may be coming soon. No my wife of nearly 52 (Sarah) is not pregnant :rofl: I am seriously and I mean seriously considering a career change from higher ed educator/researcher to entrepreneur. Part of the business plan would be to employ individuals like my son Kenji, but also to provide a quality product and service that the public will want to purchase. I don't want to give away too much right now, so more to come as I develop my business plan.


----------



## heartsbeating

Fantastic update... look forward to hearing more if you decide to follow that path!


----------



## LongWalk

I don't see any album?


----------



## Coffee Amore

drerio said:


> This could easily be places in either of the journey threads I have active:
> 
> So an interesting update in our lives may be coming soon. No my wife of nearly 52 (Sarah) is not pregnant :rofl: I am seriously and I mean seriously considering a career change from higher ed educator/researcher to entrepreneur. Part of the business plan would be to employ individuals like my son Kenji, but also to provide a quality product and service that the public will want to purchase. I don't want to give away too much right now, so more to come as I develop my business plan.


That's wonderful! You have the right disposition (kindness, patience and humility) to work with individuals who have special needs. What a great thing you're doing. There's such a shortage of people who create quality services for the disabled community. It's not a money-making endeavor, but a calling.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> This could easily be places in either of the journey threads I have active:
> 
> So an interesting update in our lives may be coming soon. No my wife of nearly 52 (Sarah) is not pregnant :rofl: I am seriously and I mean seriously considering a career change from higher ed educator/researcher to entrepreneur. Part of the business plan would be to employ individuals like my son Kenji, but also to provide a quality product and service that the public will want to purchase. I don't want to give away too much right now, so more to come as I develop my business plan.


That's wonderful Drerio!....I remember you talking about this -like a vision on one of your threads....sounds like a heart / Life calling for you... if it's meant to be....with your passion for this, I really believe it IS... it will all work itself out... with your determination and focus...the pieces, the people , the ideas...and the product...:smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

drerio said:


> I will update this again soon, just had a lot on my plate lately. In the meantime this is a dedication to my lovely wife:
> 
> Honey Baby- Three Plus - YouTube


What a sweet song to dedicate to your wife. It's a cute song.!


----------



## LongWalk

You're a good hearted fellow. One thing to remember in business ventures is that you can have 95% of the necessary attributes for success but the 5% that is off can sink the venture. This doesn't mean that you should not take a risk. Still, be very careful in getting getting critiques of your business plan before you commit.


----------



## Anonymous07

Any updates?


----------



## Ikaika

Anonymous07 said:


> Any updates?



Not yet, but soon, vey soon.


----------



## Ikaika

Sometimes I often wonder why I stick around on TAM. I know I should be doing more updates on this thread rather than sticking my nose into issues totally unrelated to the topic of my marriage. I don't mind staying connected with those of shared interest, Healthy Living group, and should get back there. But reading so many other post, it is dis-heartening. The prevailing winds are based on divorce/separation followed up by never to enter marriage again for all sorts of reasons. 

My marriage is far from perfect and has been through many downs and ups, struggles and joys, but for me and my wife it has never been a regret or question as to ever getting married. My heart breaks even when I read angry post by those opposing any aspect of marriage or truly struggling to define their marriage with the option of divorce. I know sometimes that the option of divorce is all that there is left and I don't ever judge or disagree with those who have had to exercise it. I also know some have been through storms far worse than my wife and me and have survived its wrath. 

We all have a story, it is our story, no one else's and it deserves to be told. I will continue mine if only to provide a level of balance to the larger forum of TAM. 

A small side note: yesterday, my wife was feeling sick. We had just come back from a scheduled parent teacher conference for my younger son. She was resting got up and threw up in the toilet. But, there was streaks of blood. I immediately said we are going to the ER. They ran a series of test and kept her there till the evening hours. Everything pretty much came back with no significant findings. Still don't know but she feels fine today. She even went back to work this morning against my advice, but I have to trust she feels well enough to do her job. These are moments you realize just how important your spouse is to you.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> Sometimes I often wonder why I stick around on TAM. I know I should be doing more updates on this thread rather than sticking my nose into issues totally unrelated to the topic of my marriage. I don't mind staying connected with those of shared interest, Healthy Living group, and should get back there. But reading so many other post, it is dis-heartening. The prevailing winds are based on divorce/separation followed up by never to enter marriage again for all sorts of reasons.


I am disheartened by it too.. a new thread today about not enough "marriageable men" ....which honesty I have to agree.. not much incentive for men anymore..... I've read so many articles on this.. and I can see it...

Why wouldn't people be down on it.. that's all we get fed anymore in society...the negative messages, the statistics..... just read this article today.. if you have a flood of relationships that end in a break up, the older you grow....you also tend to loose hope...when A + B always = C (end of relationship after a given time).. they fear it.. then once someone has been through a messy divorce.. even friends of mine.. that's it.. NEVER again... where there was once Hope.. there is now NONE..."won't touch that!"... it really changes one's perceptions I guess..

I am only here because I am addicted pretty much.. why I still enjoy this addiction...I need hit on the head...still missing my friend JLD and her presence on here ...She had the will power to put the keyboard away.. Good for her! 



> My marriage is far from perfect and has been through many downs and ups, struggles and joys, but for me and my wife it has never been a regret or question as to ever getting married.


 Need more stories likes yours shared here.. how to get through the hardest of times...

Though it seems to me ...the more difficult stories... if one fell into infidelity at one time .. a spouse is automatically crucified EVEN IF their marriage came back together and they are HAPPY today.. I don't think we should scarlet letter anyone here & run them off ....... but listen to how it happened and how it was overcome.. so others won't make those mistakes.. but most are not willing to be THIS vulnerable or have paid a heavy price sharing....then going & deleting their story .. I know some of those stories.. and I find that a shame...



> We all have a story, it is our story, no one else's and it deserves to be told. I will continue mine if only to provide a level of balance to the larger forum of TAM.


 glad to hear it !



> A small side note: yesterday, my wife was feeling sick. We had just come back from a scheduled parent teacher conference for my younger son. She was resting got up and threw up in the toilet. But, there was streaks of blood. I immediately said we are going to the ER. They ran a series of test and kept her there till the evening hours. Everything pretty much came back with no significant findings. Still don't know but she feels fine today. She even went back to work this morning against my advice, but I have to trust she feels well enough to do her job. *These are moments you realize just how important your spouse is to you*.


 So true!


----------



## LongWalk

Hope it's nothing serious. TAM fascinates. But then people vanish and that creates a kind of sorrow.


----------



## Coffee Amore

You and mrs. drerio make a great team. Supporting each other when one needs some TLC or help. I'm glad the results didn't show anything significant. 

This place needs more people who can speak to the peaks and troughs of a long marriage. You certainly belong here. Bring mrs. drerio here too! ;-)


----------



## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> You and mrs. drerio make a great team. Supporting each other when one needs some TLC or help. I'm glad the results didn't show anything significant.
> 
> This place needs more people who can speak to the peaks and troughs of a long marriage. You certainly belong here. *Bring mrs. drerio here too!* ;-)


I have tried to get her to join, she just see it as gossip and she loathes that sort of stuff. I have tried to convince her otherwise. A very no nonsense person, even more stoic than I can be at times, except when it comes to our oldest son. 

But, I will say, when I post on this thread, she reads the draft before I the actually hit the "post" button. She has at times, given me some verbal edit suggestions. So, in a way this is more "our" contribution rather than mine alone.


----------



## meson

drerio said:


> Sometimes I often wonder why I stick around on TAM. I know I should be doing more updates on this thread rather than sticking my nose into issues totally unrelated to the topic of my marriage. I don't mind staying connected with those of shared interest, Healthy Living group, and should get back there. But reading so many other post, it is dis-heartening. The prevailing winds are based on divorce/separation followed up by never to enter marriage again for all sorts of reasons.


Drerio, you're valuable to TAM and you do provide a balance. You have been helpful to me and I'm sure to many others. To me you provide TAM with a feeling of Ohana that counter balances some of the anger and pain. 



> My marriage is far from perfect and has been through many downs and ups, struggles and joys, but for me and my wife it has never been a regret or question as to ever getting married. My heart breaks even when I read angry post by those opposing any aspect of marriage or truly struggling to define their marriage with the option of divorce. I know sometimes that the option of divorce is all that there is left and I don't ever judge or disagree with those who have had to exercise it. I also know some have been through storms far worse than my wife and me and have survived its wrath.
> 
> We all have a story, it is our story, no one else's and it deserves to be told. I will continue mine if only to provide a level of balance to the larger forum of TAM.


Yes, please continue with your story. Hearing other people's experiences frequently helps those that have similar situations. There are plenty of people that browse TAM with smaller issues they are trying to address. Just because others have significantly more challenging and heartbreaking stories does not remove the relevance of your story. You have much to add to the forum. 



> A small side note: yesterday, my wife was feeling sick. We had just come back from a scheduled parent teacher conference for my younger son. She was resting got up and threw up in the toilet. But, there was streaks of blood. I immediately said we are going to the ER. They ran a series of test and kept her there till the evening hours. Everything pretty much came back with no significant findings. Still don't know but she feels fine today. She even went back to work this morning against my advice, but I have to trust she feels well enough to do her job. These are moments you realize just how important your spouse is to you.


I'm glad she is feeling better and the results don't show anything significant. I had a similar internal bleeding that was unexplained and went away with no consequence a few years ago. Hopefully it is similar for your wife.


----------



## meson

drerio said:


> I have tried to get her to join, she just see it as gossip and she loathes that sort of stuff. I have tried to convince her otherwise. A very no nonsense person, even more stoic than I can be at times, except when it comes to our oldest son.
> 
> But, I will say, when I post on this thread, she reads the draft before I the actually hit the "post" button. She has at times, given me some verbal edit suggestions. So, in a way this is more "our" contribution rather than mine alone.


That's cool that she helps you with your posts! TAM (and other forums) isn't for everyone. My wife is not interested in TAM either and will only rarely be interested in something I mention in a post I've read. So I envy her participation with you.


----------



## heartsbeating

My husband isn't into forums at all. He accepts that I enjoy posting - even though he doesn't understand it.

It's wonderful to read of stories such as yours, SA, meson and others - although for me, it's not simply that you are married and how you navigate through life together - rather it's the positivity, perspective and self-awareness that I value and my guess is that may well be a reflection of the husbands/wives you're married to as well. Granted, there are folks here who are going through rough patches or have even been through divorce who also offer such posts. Maybe I seek those out to read more than others? Anyway, thank you.


----------



## Ikaika

Still wondering if I should continue my story. I'm not so sure TAM is for people like me. I don't know about this place. There are people whose friendship I cherish, but there are some people I think dominate the conversations and decided TAM is a place for them to vent their own trenchant style of discussion. I want to understand but it is hard.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> Still wondering if I should continue my story. I'm not so sure TAM is for people like me. I don't know about this place. There are people whose friendship I cherish, but there are some people I think dominate the conversations and decided TAM is a place for them to vent their own trenchant style of discussion. I want to understand but it is hard.


It sounds like, because of some posters here that you question continuing your own story ...(I think upon reading that, many will wonder -does he mean me? -you got ME thinking it! ).... 

I can tell you from speaking to a few people here who started their story, then took it down, they struggled with similar feelings...wondering if it made any difference?... should I bother?... do I belong here?...is anyone reading this?...am I wasting my time?...

It's a very vulnerable thing TO PUT OUT THERE....it makes sense these thoughts would come in.....it helps getting some feedback or it feels like we're talking to the wind...

I didn't know what "Trenchant" meant so I looked it up >> "vigorously effective and articulate, sharp "...

This is how I feel...people aren't going to be moved or tuned in more to any certain writing style, or even how dominate another is in a discussion if it's not relateable or helpful to them in some way...



> *Coffee Amore said: *This place needs more people who can speak to the peaks and troughs of a long marriage. You certainly belong here.


 :iagree:

Continue on !


----------



## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> It sounds like, because of some posters here that you question continuing your own story ...(I think upon reading that, many will wonder -does he mean me? -you got ME thinking it! )....
> 
> I can tell you from speaking to a few people here who started their story, then took it down, they struggled with similar feelings...wondering if it made any difference?... should I bother?... do I belong here?...is anyone reading this?...am I wasting my time?...
> 
> It's a very vulnerable thing TO PUT OUT THERE....it makes sense these thoughts would come in.....it helps getting some feedback or it feels like we're talking to the wind...
> 
> I didn't know what "Trenchant" meant so I looked it up >> "vigorously effective and articulate, sharp "...
> 
> This is how I feel...people aren't going to be moved or tuned in more to any certain writing style, or even how dominate another is in a discussion if it's not relateable or helpful to them in some way...
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> Continue on !



I will, I just get discouraged by attitudes of the few very vocal (not you) wanting to dominate the conversations on TAM in general. I guess I could just as easily be accused of doing the same. It is hard to have a clear understanding on these asynchronous types of conversation, which is why I often say I do better IRL situations. I think I am better able to understand the other person's position when I can look them in the eye.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> I will, I just get discouraged by attitudes of the few very vocal (not you) wanting to dominate the conversations on TAM in general. I guess I could just as easily be accused of doing the same. It is hard to have a clear understanding on these asynchronous types of conversation, which is why I often say I do better IRL situations. I think I am better able to understand the other person's position when I can look them in the eye.


Ok..some of the heated debates here...I think I know what thread you mean...it's on it's 36th page...I seen some of your posts yesterday with another..

I have nothing to add to that conversation...I guess I am not really worried our kids will get caught up in a mess like that...but I'll be sure to tell them all about the new "consent app" when they go off to college -just in case!...What is our world coming to!

Those type threads remind me how archaic my thinking is in this day & age...then I start questioning just like you are.. but for different reasons.. You work in that atmosphere so you should have something to say about it. so I feel.

Talking face to face would have many "tone it down" some over what goes on in posts here... what can you do.. but grow a harder shell.. and continue on .. The varied opinions are GOOD..


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## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ok..some of the heated debates here...I think I know what thread you mean...it's on it's 36th page...I seen some of your posts yesterday with another..
> 
> I have nothing to add to that conversation...I guess I am not really worried our kids will get caught up in a mess like that...but I'll be sure to tell them all about the new "consent app" when they go off to college -just in case!...What is our world coming to!
> 
> Those type threads remind me how archaic my thinking is in this day & age...then I start questioning just like you are.. but for different reasons.. You work in that atmosphere so you should have something to say about it. so I feel.
> 
> Talking face to face would have many "tone it down" some over what goes on in posts here... what can you do.. but grow a harder shell.. and continue on .. The varied opinions are GOOD..



It is that and a few other threads in which you have the likes of some genuine folks being run off given the nature of how others wish to push their own hurts and anger toward total strangers. 

As for that thread, I just think one really has to take their parenting skills much more seriously and bring up a generation of people respectful of each other. Parenting is by far the hardest profession in life and takes a skill set that goes beyond any degree or other training. It is the one profession that gives me sleepless nights, ages me faster and yet also gives me the most satisfaction in really affecting change for the positive.


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## SimplyAmorous

drerio said:


> *As for that thread, I just think one really has to take their parenting skills much more seriously and bring up a generation of people respectful of each other. Parenting is by far the hardest profession in life and takes a skill set that goes beyond any degree or other training. It is the one profession that gives me sleepless nights, ages me faster and yet also gives me the most satisfaction in really affecting change for the positive*.


Love what you said here !!! 

Do you know how ridiculous it is that if/when I speak on things like responsibility, respect -it almost seems like with teens, we are the crazy ones to expect our children to NOT go crazy wild..that's all I hear on this forum , that they're all brainless till their mid 20's so they're gonna ____ , party & get drunk and lie to you anyway.. Is this the truth ?? If so, society has went to hell. Yeah.. we need more voices of courage and belief for a better world, starting with us parents being a better example to them for one, and not bowing to peer pressured A-holes in high school. 

It's almost like --might as well leave your parenting at the door - with some of the things I read here.. it's just not always the case. I've felt belittled here for expecting better from our own kids. There is my little rant for the day !


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## heartsbeating

I generally don't bother debating here or venturing into certain threads because that's something I value greater, and am more comfortable with, in person. It also seems that certain threads require more time suckage as a result. In person though, I can enjoy and am stimulated by lively discussions and differing opinions in a mutually respectful way. That's just me though. Each to their own. 

When threads take a journey about a relationship or learning, that's of more interest to me. Sometimes I wonder what the hell I'm doing here - despite some of the things I've learned. The more threads like this, the better. And when feeling too caught up, maybe that's the time to take a breath from here... but TAM needs voices like yours drerio.


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## heartsbeating

...but does drerio need TAM, is perhaps more to the point.


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## Ikaika

heartsbeating said:


> I generally don't bother debating here or venturing into certain threads because that's something I value greater, and am more comfortable with, in person. It also seems that certain threads require more time suckage as a result. In person though, I can enjoy and am stimulated by lively discussions and differing opinions in a mutually respectful way. That's just me though. Each to their own.
> 
> When threads take a journey about a relationship or learning, that's of more interest to me. Sometimes I wonder what the hell I'm doing here - despite some of the things I've learned. The more threads like this, the better. And when feeling too caught up, maybe that's the time to take a breath from here... but TAM needs voices like yours drerio.



I totally understand. I guess I never could understand those that take every opportunity to gin up the gender wars. I simply think respect for the other person and we should never have to worry these odd assumptions.


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## angelpixie

I haven't been on TAM for quite a while, so maybe this sounds disingenuous, but I don't think you should let others tell you whether you should be here or not. Certainly there are people here who have been made bitter by their own experiences, in their relationships and elsewhere. But, you know, there are people like that in real life, too. I think they feel bolder here because nobody knows who they really are. They aren't held accountable. There are people who feed off of discord, too. That's different from just enjoying a lively discussion. 

Don't leave because of them. They aren't the totality of TAM, remember. If you still get something out of it, whether it's the camaraderie, or support, or journaling your experience, or feeling of helping out others by telling your story, then don't let the others make your decision for you. 

Remember, things do ebb and flow, and posters come and go, so TAM might not always be the way it is now. Hang in there, D.


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## SimplyAmorous

Angelpixie spoke it all ...and so very well..:smthumbup:


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## meson

Drerio, I was one of the people who posted my story and took it down because of its details led someone to recognize who I was and started spreading rumors about my marriage. 

Even though I took my thread down I still feel its good to contribute to the positive side of marriage. I am more guarded with personal info posted publicly but i still contribute. You don't need to continue your story but you can still provide the insight you have learned through your marriage. Don't let the bitter attitudes of some dictate the entire feeling of the board. I along with many appreciate your experience and think its beneficial to the lurkers and other less vocal members.


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## RedRose14

Drerio, I don't come to TAM so much any more, but when I do I pop into the Long Term Marriage Section, Social, and if I see you've posted more about Kenji's journey, I go and have a look in the hope that you have posted an update. I enjoy reading your stories Drerio. Like you I have a good marriage, there are some of us around. TAM stands for Talk About Marriage, not Talk About Affairs, Talk About Divorce, Talk About Mismatched Libidos, Talk About Staying Together Even Though You Are Miserable. It is for all aspects of marriage. Sometimes, thankfully marriage is a good thing and a happy thing, and I think it is wonderful for people, whether they are regular posters or lurkers to be able to read about the positive aspects of marriage. Your stories are full of the positive aspects of marriage, because you and your wife, in my opinion, do everything the right way, you make an effort with each other, you work together and as a result your marriage is strong. It is a great advertisement for marriage, it gives hope and inspiration to others. 

I understand Drerio if you no longer want to post your story, but if you do decide to post your story, I will continue to relish reading it!


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## LongWalk

Drerio,

I am afraid that I am one of the offending posters. But in truth, you must remember that you win people over by your expository skills. We read, think and learn.

If you were referring to the CA legislation, I think that you made many good points. Some things we cannot know. And there are not necessarily black and white truths. It is possible that some institutions will succeed in using this initiative to better protect students while upholding the rule of law. Others may backslide because they apply in correctly.

After you left the thread I posted copies of a Columbia woman student's experience facing what she judged a failed disciplinary board. I hope you will read it.

TAM has lost many voices. People come and go. It is sad to Mach, Mavash, Dig, Conrad and others vanish. I would count you as one of TAMs top posters, in terms of thoughtful content, but you are especially distinguished when it comes to civility.


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## Ikaika

LongWalk said:


> Drerio,
> 
> I am afraid that I am one of the offending posters. But in truth, you must remember that you win people over by your expository skills. We read, think and learn.
> 
> If you were referring to the CA legislation, I think that you made many good points. Some things we cannot know. And there are not necessarily black and white truths. It is possible that some institutions will succeed in using this initiative to better protect students while upholding the rule of law. Others may backslide because they apply in correctly.
> 
> After you left the thread I posted copies of a Columbia woman student's experience facing what she judged a failed disciplinary board. I hope you will read it.
> 
> TAM has lost many voices. People come and go. It is sad to Mach, Mavash, Dig, Conrad and others vanish. I would count you as one of TAMs top posters, in terms of thoughtful content,* but you are especially distinguished when it comes to civility*.


It is called living in Aloha. Though I am not a religious person, I would insult my own ancestors if I did not live with Aloha and to Malama pono my fellow "traveler" here. 

I do tell folks, don't ever mistake Aloha as a form of weakness but it is one of knowing how to treat others, even one's you may not agree with least you fall to your own arrogance and disgrace.


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## Ikaika

My wife lately has been down, she has the "I'm fat, old and ugly" piano playing blues. I know that these are no win situations to respond with mere words. Times like these means to be creative in actions and how I respond to otherwise mundane conversations. She is still hot to me. So, when I look at my wife, I see beauty and not that of a 20 year old. Sure a 20 something is sexy, but I can't explain the beauty I see. I guess it can only be seen through the eyes of experience and maybe love. I don't want to say love is blind because that would imply her greatest fears, but there is some level of myopia that goes with long deep seeded love. After all neither of us are in our prime and neither of us will ever look better as the years go on, but I will always see beauty. 

I don't gush everyday over her, that would be unrealistic, but there are the moments, those moments that tells me this was right. 

Last week we did have a huge blowout, and while lots of blame could go around, we survived. We spent one whole evening talking followed by ********. Long term success, is about the little things and knowing we can survive the big stuff. I have no regrets, none. 

This December will be 20 years. Two decades is hard to imagine.


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## Jellybeans

Twenty years is awesome!


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## Ikaika

Jellybeans said:


> Twenty years is awesome!



And, she still is hot and sexy


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## Coffee Amore

Beautiful post, drerio. You have much to be thankful for.


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## Ikaika

I told folks (probably in poor taste and for that I apologize) that I was going on a permanent strict TAM diet. I will still be here, but my presence outside of a few threads like this one will be extremely sparse. It has nothing to do with being annoyed or any huge conflict or explosion with a fellow member(s). I simply need more time dealing with real life and sometimes TAM can be a distraction. 

I want my time here to be productive. And, while it may be helpful to respond to another person's thread, for me personally I feel I can serve the community better on threads such as this one. A place where I can simply give my take on what has worked for us in our marriage. It may not fit every persons situation, but I will continue to blog on as I feel the urge to put our thoughts here. 

Now that grades are in I will work offline on a post for this and my other journey thread.


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## Coffee Amore

I hope like all diets this one fails too, dre...I mean Ikaika.

But you have to do what works for you.


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## Ikaika

The evolution of marriage

As my wife and I are about to celebrate our 20th anniversary, I often think that like my own life our marriage has gone through its evolution. A bit cyclical but more linear. There were the early years, childless years and the years of moving a mindset of single independence to one of a cooperative union. I think those years were harder for me than they were for Keiko (my wife). I believe this is relatively common theme, where one party needs to make more adjustments than the other. Was I even mentally ready to be married? Did I get married because I saw it as a standard of society? Did I truly love this women to suggest I could live with one person for the rest of my life? Honestly, I started to ask these questions, not before but only after I got married. It was probably not the time for philosophical pondering of an issue that I was already committed to. 

Early years

So, it was a huge adjustment for me but less so for Keiko. While she was in her late 20s when I met her, she was back living with her parents. And, though she was independent in many ways she had a better foundation for family and relationships than I had fostered in my 30 years. We struggled often with what seemed like trivial issues, things like whether to back the car into a parking stall or headlights first. I came into the marriage fiercely independent and saw little value in compromises. I did on a couple of occasions storm out of the apartment to end up sleeping in my office. I would call to say what I was doing, "needing time and space" or some kind of bullsh!t along those lines. Why my wife stayed with me in those early years still puzzles me. Although through it all I was determined not to quit, just bail and run out on the marriage. If TAM had been around in those early days, wow my wife could have easily made an account only to paint me as a monster. I can't say my wife changed me or chiseled me into who I am now. I would never assume that anyone can marry in the hopes of changing the other person. I am also pretty sure she must have seen something in me, it is not as if I turned some bait and switch on her. I knew better, I knew what was the right way to be as a husband and partner. It just took a bit more time for me to get my own thinking around on the process. 

Up to the son:

We had both agreed that we wanted to wait five years before having children. It was both a financial decision as well as understanding we both should figure this marriage thing out before we got kids involved. For us, this was the wisest thing we ever did. My inner mustang needed to be tamed and even after the arrival of Kenji, Keiko and I still had things to work through.

I will continue with more later, but I just want to suggest for me and my wife, going through these things to make our marriage work has been well worth it. I know some may have different bend or break points. And, others have stories that have no reflection on our experience but this is our journey. In coming reflections, I can tell you that at this point, I am happier and more content than in those early years.


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## meson

We didn't have kids until after our fourth year. In retrospect I think it's good we had that time to bond early on. We may not have made it through if we went straight to kids. Good observation Drerio, I mean Ikaika.


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## Ikaika

Ok, be kind and remember we are both practical. Plus I bought her some jewelry a few years back for our anniversary. And, this for both of us since we will both use it. 

Bought a pro model mixer from kitchen aide 

Happy anniversary Keiko (12/24/1994)


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## LongWalk

I understand the TAM diet.

For a while now I've been thinking I should cut back.


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## Ikaika

20 years and going strong. Married this day 1994, 10am HST at http://www.turtlebayresort.com


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## meson

Congratulations!!!! What a nice place to start a marriage. But to me it will always be known as the Kuilima much the same way as the HIC.


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## Ikaika

Date night, no kiddos


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## Threetimesalady

Ikaika said:


> Date night, no kiddos


Enjoy....:smthumbup:....You earned it...My best to you, your wife and those handsome young boys....Regards...


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## Coffee Amore

Ikaika said:


> Date night, no kiddos


Sounds fun. If you don't mind telling us, where did you go?


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## Ikaika

Coffee Amore said:


> Sounds fun. If you don't mind telling us, where did you go?


Champa Thai of Kailua, then we went to the new Kailua Target... I know, we are not that exciting


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Hey, Fun is Fun...who are we to judge!


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## Ikaika

Maybe we just got lucky, but I do believe we have a pretty good marriage heading into our 21st year. I don't think I can really give advice on how to make a marriage last but it is sometimes the little things. We can still make each other laugh and that to me this is important.


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## SimplyAmorous

It took my Brother in law half of his life to find the Love of his life... went to their wedding yesterday.. "the Little things" were Mentioned in the ceremony.. they are the BIG THINGS....laughter in like medicine...congrats on your up & coming 21st Ikaika & wife !


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## CharlieParker

As I like to say, if you're not having fun (ie laughing) you're doing it wrong and really need to talk. 

Anniversary dinner pics, again, please.


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## Ikaika

I spend too much time on the P&R sub forum on TAM and that is not the focus of TAM. I know part of my reason of me being here is more of my personal issues and those issues do affect our marriage. It's baggage left over from a less optimal upbringing. Yes, I still get moody and depressed. However, I have gone through some professional counseling (still do) to deal with these issues. Life is getting better. I stopped drinking my life away, and replaced it with a lifestyle of fitness. I play my bass everyday, talk to my wife everyday (ok that order is messed up) and working everyday to be a better father. A far better accomplishment than any career goal I had or attained. 

It is not that I'm leaving TAM, that is just too much drama for me to even handle, but I will likely scale back a bit (or at least I will attempt to do scale back). 

I don't know that I have provided any value here, just another wandering soul.


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## CharlieParker

Ikaika said:


> (or at least I will attempt to do scale back).


Good luck with that! :grin2: :wink2:



Ikaika said:


> I don't know that I have provided any value here


:whip: stop that, even without a threeway involving clowns you have provided a great deal here simply by sharing your everyday. Thank you.


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## Ikaika

I'm all good, Kenji is presenting new challenges that I need to focus on plus, my youngest, Ryo, is moving past the conditioning part of football to the actual football phase of practice (two a day). The season is short but starts soon. His school starts mid August.


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## Ikaika

I sit in this echo chamber looking out and seeing folks that I know around me, here on TAM, destructing... I wonder if anything I say has any real meaning in this thread? 

I came here by accident, stuck around, met some great folks, but I don't know anymore. Too many of my conversations are unrelated to me and I find myself going off the rails for no real reason. Maybe the dinner thread, this and Kenji's thread are all that have meaning for me here, it is safe.


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## Coffee Amore

I think seeing folks who have happy solid marriages is valuable. If only people with marital problems posted on TAM what a sad place this would be. It helps to take short breaks from TAM. But ultimately you have to use TAM the way it suits you. Take what you like and stay out of those areas you don't find suits you.


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## Ikaika

Lately I've been a bit moody and I've taken a lot of my sour temperament out on my boys and my wife. When I get this way (which is not a lot, but does happen more frequently as I'm getting older) I try to steer clear of any confrontations with my wife as I know they will not end well. My wife is not doormat and I don't expect her to be one when I'm acting like a complete ass. Thus our battles can get pretty heated. 

One result that comes from these times, is that in the aftermath we can go a couple of days with only a few words. Most of it is in the way of text to deal with the logistics concerning our sons. Although I tend to recover quicker and would like to regain normalcy in our family at my pace this does not happen. I know I should not expect my wife to just move to my beat, but I will admit I wish she did (I know that sounds selfish). Sometimes, I think I should just dig deep and pretend all is ok with me when it is not. This is one part of our relationship I (or we have not mastered). 

In a day or two we will be ok... More updates here, so stay tuned.


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## heartsbeating

That was put so simply. I wonder if your wife would appreciate knowing that's how you feel at these times... if she doesn't already? 

As for providing value here? Yes, you matter.


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## Ikaika

I don't know what it is, age, the years married, the roads I and we have traveled, but I want to lend hope for those struggling early in their marriage, it can get, and be better if you just hang in there. But, you also have to be willing to put in the hard work. I'm not starry eyed to assume this is true of all marriages, but if you build it in on something strong, something worthwhile, even through the toughest times as the years go on, it can and it will get better. I cannot say that I have ever been a perfect husband. In fact, I would say I got the better part of the deal in this marriage. I look at myself as damage goods that is always in need to constant repair and maintenance. That old car that you have to drive but swear at it every trip you take it on. It will get you there, but the ride is rough and there are luxuries. You sometimes worry if it will breakdown and you have to just get out and abandon it walking the rest of the way home without it. 

In December we will be making 21 years, I guess that means our marriage is old enough to be called adult. Of course neither of us drink so I guess we will raise our tea cups and say "cheers". It was not always easy and we struggled at times through some things my wife would prefer I not share on here, but needless to say, we have grown closer together now than ever before. We have even taken to holding hands in public again. No more do I leave the house without out kissing her goodbye. We try as much as we can to never go to bed angry at each other. We have truly grown together like well tuned motor. I did not always feel this way, but now more than ever I would fear the day if she were to die before me. I really don't think I could live on without her. I still have my hobbies and I don't follow her around like a puppy dog mind you, it is just something I have grown so much used to that without her I would be empty. It is hard to explain. Let us just say in many of the previous years/decade I was more moody and grouchy and often maybe even a bastard in my attitude. My wife had every reason to kick me to the curb and back then I probably would have been dumb enough to leave. I have mellowed a lot, probably because I don't drink any longer, I don't live unhealthy and I generally feel better about me which makes me feel better about my whole family. 

And, for those men out there who are not the best of fathers, I include myself. I think to be a better father, you first have to be a better husband. Love your wife first and foremost, this will be the greatest gift you can give your children. Do not neglect her, she is after all the woman you vowed your love to and she is the mother of your children. What a gift. I love my boys very much, but my wife comes first. If not, then there really is not core to this family. Men, it starts with us, really it does, we have to be the anchor for our wife and children. This is not some call to alpha, rather this is a call to act like an adult, a mature man willing to understand his role as husband and father. I will be the first to tell you I have failed far too many times in the past on both of these counts but here to tell you hang in there, work to be a better person and hopefully you married someone willing to hang in there with you as you grow. I found a gem.


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## TBT

You probably don't know this Ikaika,but I read your posts quite often for a little bit of sanity. To me,I see a real clarity and evenhandedness in your posts that brings a realistic view to marriage as well as the various other topics on here. Have to admit though,being Canadian,that the whole Politics forum leaves me dazed and confused and I suspect a few Americans as well,lol. 

In my humble opinion,you've been a constant positive addition to this forum since you first signed on. No doubt whatsoever.


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## Ikaika

TBT said:


> You probably don't know this Ikaika,but I read your posts quite often for a little bit of sanity. To me,I see a real clarity and evenhandedness in your posts that brings a realistic view to marriage as well as the various other topics on here. Have to admit though,being Canadian,that the whole Politics forum leaves me dazed and confused and I suspect a few Americans as well,lol.
> 
> 
> 
> In my humble opinion,you've been a constant positive addition to this forum since you first signed on. No doubt whatsoever.



Thank you for the words of encouragement, however I don't think most folks who haunt TAM nowadays are particularly interested in stories like mine. It seems too many are fascinated with the drama like that seen on reality TV; this is the society we have become. Oh well, I think I may have burned past the wick with my time here.


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## heartsbeating

Ikaika said:


> Thank you for the words of encouragement, however I don't think most folks who haunt TAM nowadays are particularly interested in stories like mine. It seems too many are fascinated with the drama like that seen on reality TV; this is the society we have become. Oh well, I think I may have burned past the wick with my time here.


'Most' folks. How many people need to appreciate you to have you feeling valued? I see a few of us on this page alone expressing our appreciation for your voice here. None of us are chopped liver haha. Still, if you feel disenchanted I can't really dispute that.


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## Ikaika

heartsbeating said:


> 'Most' folks. How many people need to appreciate you to have you feeling valued? I see a few of us on this page alone expressing our appreciation for your voice here. None of us are chopped liver haha. Still, if you feel disenchanted I can't really dispute that.



I know there are still valuable folks here, or at least ones whose opinion I value. I do thank you for the words of appreciation. I think remaining in a few thread of equal value will be best for me.


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## LongWalk

Some of TAM is drama. Some philosophy. The former is meaningless if there is no search for values.

Your thread and your postings are mostly certainly esteemed.

Treat it as a journal.


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## Ikaika

21st anniversary today, I guess our marriage has come of age. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SimplyAmorous

Got plans to do something special today -to surprise the wife Ikaika?


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## Mr.Fisty

Congrats on making it that long, you deserve a reward. 21 years is almost my entire life, so it is hard for me to imagine.

Someone is getting lucky tonight, I hope you enjoy steak!


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## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> Got plans to do something special today -to surprise the wife Ikaika?



In the past when the boys were younger we used to go out to eat (always expensive but worth it) after dropping boys off at grandmas. The boys now want to be part of the celebration. So, I order up some grass-fed steaks from a local rancher. I spend the day cooking and we will, all four, celebrate with meal cooked at home. Later we will walk around the neighborhood looking at all the Christmas lights. Boys will probably stay up way past their bedtime and my wife and I retreat to our room. Time for us. 

I have a full course meal planned. I need to get started soon. Maybe I will post a pic later. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SimplyAmorous

Ikaika said:


> In the past when the boys were younger we used to go out to eat (always expensive but worth it) after dropping boys off at grandmas. The boys now want to be part of the celebration. So, I order up some grass-fed steaks from a local rancher. I spend the day cooking and we will, all four, celebrate with meal cooked at home. Later we will walk around the neighborhood looking at all the Christmas lights. Boys will probably stay up way past their bedtime and my wife and I retreat to our room. Time for us.
> 
> I have a full course meal planned. I need to get started soon. Maybe I will post a pic later.


 Would love to see a pic ...sounds like a nice homey tradition you have kept alive.... there is nothing better than steak ! 

It's a wonder your wife is not cooking all day for Christmas (I am !).. though not everyone celebrates.. I know. Have a good one !


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## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> Would love to see a pic ...sounds like a nice homey tradition you have kept alive.... there is nothing better than steak !
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wonder your wife is not cooking all day for Christmas (I am !).. though not everyone celebrates.. I know. Have a good one !



I'm cooking because:

1. She works half day today and I have time off
2. My gift to her
3. Cooking is a bit of a cathartic hobby for me. 

Thank you. And wishing you and yours a very merry Christmas 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ikaika

Menu:

Manoa lettuce and baby spinach salad tossed in a light red wine vinaigrette virgin olive oil dressing 

Top quality tenderloin from Kualoa Ranch with a creamy red wine sauce

Patatas Bravas with a spicy dipping sauce

Roasted vegetables

For desert: I'm making a sponge cake Yule Log. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ikaika

Not on the nicest plate (I could not find Christmas platter) but here is my Yule Log. I had to make it in advanced. 




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ikaika

Sorry I forgot to post a sample plate pic of our anniversary dinner. It was gobbled down, so it must have been good. I got high praise on the taste (not just the presentation) of the Yule log. So, I guess it was somewhat of a success. 

More important we made a successful 21 years. It is not a perfect marriage, but it is one we both agreed is one worth working at. 

New Year's Eve, will be smaller get together this year as we leave the next day for Maui (attending nieces wedding on January 2nd). It will be simply our immediate family, grandma (MIL), SIL and her family along with wife's oldest brother and his family. I will try to post a menu and pics on this one. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating

Congratulations. Enjoy your New Years together.

You seem to have a real connection on what matters most in life. This is something I respect in your posts. You and your wife are fortunate to have one another and to continue growing side by side. It's special... you're special together.


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## Ikaika

I think TAM is for folks who have some serious marital issues. This is not to minimize them or to ever suggest I'm better because I don't have these same issues. To the contrary, I truly feel saddened by many of the stories, many of which are not the fault of some of the OPs. I know I have said as much before, but it apparent more now, that I really have little to contribute given the experiences I have had. So, unless there are issues with dealing with a:

Past paternal problems (childhood upbringing) - complicated to explain,
Dealing day to day with a mentally challenged child
Or past addictions 

I have little to contribute. It is not that this is some sort of farewell speech, but it is one where I will be weaning away from most threads. I really just see myself providing updates here and on my Kenji's journey thread from time to time. 

I wish some folks had not left the Healthy Living group, however I wish many of them healthier living in the days, years and decades to come. 

Happy New Year everyone, wishing you all a healthy and prosperous 2016.


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## Ikaika

Maybe my humble post here can be my contribution.


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## Mr The Other

Ikaika said:


> I think TAM is for folks who have some serious marital issues. This is not to minimize them or to ever suggest I'm better because I don't have these same issues. To the contrary, I truly feel saddened by many of the stories, many of which are not the fault of some of the OPs. I know I have said as much before, but it apparent more now, that I really have little to contribute given the experiences I have had. So, unless there are issues with dealing with a:
> 
> Past paternal problems (childhood upbringing) - complicated to explain,
> Dealing day to day with a mentally challenged child
> Or past addictions
> 
> I have little to contribute. It is not that this is some sort of farewell speech, but it is one where I will be weaning away from most threads. I really just see myself providing updates here and on my Kenji's journey thread from time to time.
> 
> I wish some folks had not left the Healthy Living group, however I wish many of them healthier living in the days, years and decades to come.
> 
> Happy New Year everyone, wishing you all a healthy and prosperous 2016.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That is a very kind post. 

When I had marital problems, I quickly found that the men who had good advice and delivered it sensitively were men in bad relationships. Men used to good relationships tended to not be able to give good advice (e.g. "try being considerate"), while smug men and women tended to give the worst advice (stop being a douche the entire time). 

One advantage of TAM was it generally had an understanding that marriage really did take two people and that having a penis and being at fault were not the same. Much of the time, posters have one issue, but there is an appreciation that the struggle is real. As you have that understanding it makes you a valuable poster.


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## Ikaika

One thing that certainly helps our marriage is laughter. This is not laughing at each other but with each other about things we remembered long ago. Even last night we were laughing so loud recalling stories, our oldest calls from down the hall, "what's going on?" And, often laughter does end in intimacy for us 

Laughter - not necessarily the magic bullet for a successful marriage but it helps. 


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## SimplyAmorous

Ikaika said:


> I think TAM is for folks who have some serious marital issues. This is not to minimize them or to ever suggest I'm better because I don't have these same issues. To the contrary, *I truly feel saddened by many of the stories, many of which are not the fault of some of the OPs. I know I have said as much before, but it apparent more now, that I really have little to contribute given the experiences I have had.* So, unless there are issues with dealing with a:
> 
> Past paternal problems (childhood upbringing) - complicated to explain,
> Dealing day to day with a mentally challenged child
> Or past addictions
> 
> *I have little to contribute. It is not that this is some sort of farewell speech, but it is one where I will be weaning away from most threads. * I really just see myself providing updates here and on my Kenji's journey thread from time to time.


 @Mr The Other's words are very true- that IF you can appreciate the marital struggles you read here.. (we can relate in a variety of ways, can't we?)....not coming off "smug" or a know it all....this makes you a valuable poster... 

We don't have to walk in all these shoes we read.. if just an eight of a mile in some of them.. or know others close to us who've "been there".. the diversity of experience/ opinions is good for a marriage forum. 

I feel like this now & then... then I go down that rabbit hole that I have to be utterly worthless here... then someone else shares they feel like that too... then I feel better ! Not so alone.. funny how that works...

I used to spend my days watching soap operas & listening to "talk radio"... Can't say that was very productive !... then I got the net & discovered forums.. It was a learning ground for many things.. I sought out a forum like this -due to something I was dealing with..even then I felt it might be too Small to post.. like I was just complaining.. but darn it.. I still was struggling with something...

I so appreciated all that feedback!! 

Oh it can be a TIME SUCKER -- that we could be doing something more valuable.. I guess today I am feeling confident that I have a place here too.... all of us do! 

The worst thing is.. like you say...A LOT of heartbreak here.... ... I think of this old thread - many feel as you* >>* http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/39436-so-sad.html ... just shows you are empathetic ... a plus!


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## Ikaika

When I first came to TAM I believe I was sleep walking through my marriage. I think I was living in denial, that all was well when in reality I was kind of going through the motions. It was too easy to suggest on the surface to everyone, "yea, sure, I love my wife" but how convinced was I? It's an answer that in my moments alone I could not always answer right away. 

Family has always been important to me, my sons and even my wife. However, I guess I got to a point where this importance and love for my wife, as a wife (friend and lover) seemed separated at the heart and mind. I did a lot of soul searching in my moments alone. 

I saw a lot of marriages around me, where I observed couples just seeming to be two people who shared a home but simply two people rather than two people married. It was me looking into a mirror. And, again the heart and mind thought and felt two different things. I did not want to question my own marriage, but I was pulled internally to confront my own feelings versus my intellectual view of my marriage, of my role has husband and father. The question, did I truly love my wife as my wife? Again, a couple of years ago when I first came here, I could say it, but inside I was not sure I meant it. 

So, what about now, what about after 21 years marriage and these last few years to reflect. I'm not sure what has been made things different. I can't even say it was some singular event. I can say in truth, without any bs or trying to struggle internally, I found a renewed love. I have felt in the last 10 months as if I fell in love with my wife again. I think about her when she is not around and love how she smells, and feels when she is close. I can't leave for work now without at least feeling her warmth against me. I wish I could share some nuggets of wisdom as to what changed, but something has stirred within me and I have found my love again. I know there is the possibility of sleep walking again, but I also know that there is possibility of renewed love, again. 


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## Ikaika

There is a part two:

Yes, I have fallen back "in love" with my wife. And, this is not just in words but in deed as well. However, I am not sure my wife is still in love with me. So, today this question will be posed to her. I expect some verbal affirmation but words are cheap. I will challenge that she show me and know that the clock is ticking. If you ask me what happens when time on the clock expires, then I really don't know yet. I do know if she can't demonstrate that she loves me I will be deeply hurt. But, then what? I don't know, I really don't know. There will be more parts to come. I am open to marriage counseling if necessary. But, can marriage counseling really change the heart? Again, I don't know. Can a marriage be successful if only one party is "in love" while the other party simply says they love the other person? 

I do know that the alternative would devastate my sons, so I will tread lightly in making rash decisions. My love for them has and always will be there. 

This is not what some of you have wanted to read, but in my awakening to my new attraction to my wife, I want to see my life with my wife, our marriage, in the same light.


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## heartsbeating

Reading this did surprise me because it's the first I've read of you feeling this way with your wife/marriage... the feeling uncertain if she reciprocates and needing for that to be demonstrated. Perhaps ignorantly, I had surmised through the way you have written of your marriage that there was mutual reciprocation. Even just a few posts ago, you write of laughing together, old memories and leading to further intimacy. Is that not a demonstration of love between you?


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## Ikaika

heartsbeating said:


> Reading this did surprise me because it's the first I've read of you feeling this way with your wife/marriage... the feeling uncertain if she reciprocates and needing for that to be demonstrated. Perhaps ignorantly, I had surmised through the way you have written of your marriage that there was mutual reciprocation. Even just a few posts ago, you write of laughing together, old memories and leading to further intimacy. Is that not a demonstration of love between you?



This is more my paranoia. We have had some rocky issues lately and it just felt to me as if my wife was pulling back. This from my perceptive caused more anger, impatient behavior and arguing more than usual (last month or so). 

Last night we closed the door and had talk, no arguing no talking about the boys. Just a talk about us and rebuilding little pieces that have been broken in our marriage. We stayed up late, but was well worth it. We both love each other deeply and decided that at least once a week, we need to close our door and not talk about work or the kids or about household chores. Just talk about us. I don't know how long this will last, but it really is a good thing for us. I don't want our marriage to be based just on some inertia. I suggested to my wife if I want to be a better father to my sons I have to first be a better husband. 

As always we are moving ahead on this journey, a journey I once again feel good about in terms of our direction. 

Thank you for your concern. 


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## heartsbeating

It's good to hear that you both talked, discovering what you need together as a couple... temporarily stepping off the merry-go-round of life and closing the door to reconnect with each other.


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## ReturntoZero

Observing long enough proves to you that people are what they are. Someone who hasn't reciprocated through the past 10 years is unlikely to ever do it. We can't change others, only ourselves.

My wife and I had a rather loud discussion the other morning our business partnership and what's working for us.

I steadfastly refuse to be contrite about not being considerate in areas where she refuses to reciprocate. Some would call it a pissing match. I'd call it avoiding doormat behavior.

She actually sees what I bring to our partnership and isn't willing to do without it. We've proven this over the years - by trial and error. When your wife initiates a power struggle, a man has no choice but to win it - or be miserable. Figuring out "how" to win it is the rub.

Emotional communication is the language of marriage. If you don't master it, you're lost.


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## Ikaika

One thing we both decided on was to move out of our comfort zone as a couple, stretch ourselves, allow us to lean on each other. We signed up for salsa dancing lessons. This is a stretch for both of us who have two left feet. But, the young couple teaching it assured us that even an old uncoordinated couple like us can do it. Needless to say it worth the fun and laughs. 

I don't think I will be uploading any videos, unless you folks need the comedy. 


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## SimplyAmorous

Ikaika said:


> One thing we both decided on was to move out of our comfort zone as a couple, stretch ourselves, allow us to lean on each other. *We signed up for salsa dancing lessons. This is a stretch for both of us who have two left feet. * But, the young couple teaching it assured us that even an old uncoordinated couple like us can do it. Needless to say it worth the fun and laughs.
> 
> I don't think I will be uploading any videos, unless you folks need the comedy.


 This sounds like a great plan ...with the fumbling....there will be many laughs along the way.. it will be great for you both.. 

So I hear that "Dancing with the Stars" is a really popular show..I've only seen small segments of it... 

I looked up a Salsa dancing... this popped up.. WOW ! A great way to revive that "loving feeling".... is laughing, reminiscing what brought you together, get physical and make some new memories!


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## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> This sounds like a great plan ...with the fumbling....there will be many laughs along the way.. it will be great for you both..
> 
> So I hear that "Dancing with the Stars" is a really popular show..I've only seen small segments of it...
> 
> I looked up a Salsa dancing... this popped up.. WOW ! A great way to revive that "loving feeling".... is laughing, reminiscing what brought you together, get physical and make some new memories!



It will be fun and possibly worth some laughs. 

http://www.hawaiisalsa101.com


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## Ikaika

My wife says I go at it too hard working out in the gym. I pair up with twenty and thirty year old studs. And, me just broken down old man. Anyway I've been nursing tendonitis for a few weeks. Today, I finally feel like I can get back in the gym. 

Anyway 4:30 my time, we will see how this goes. I just don't know the down shifted speed. Wish me luck. 


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## 225985

Ikaika said:


> My wife says I go at it too hard working out in the gym. I pair up with twenty and thirty year old studs. And, me just broken down old man. Anyway I've been nursing tendonitis for a few weeks. Today, I finally feel like I can get back in the gym.
> 
> Anyway 4:30 my time, we will see how this goes. I just don't know the down shifted speed. Wish me luck.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




Do you take any supplements, powders etc.? I am not quite your age but close and looking for something legal to help with muscle growth.


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## Ikaika

blueinbr said:


> Do you take any supplements, powders etc.? I am not quite your age but close and looking for something legal to help with muscle growth.




Protein powder and creatine. I try to eat well. 


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## Ikaika

It is rare nowadays when my wife and I part for our respective jobs or other activities to *not* kiss and tell each other have safe day (or something to that affect). 

Anyway, we sort of had a blow out fight this morning. The issue is not as important as that we did not resolve the anger and we parted with no words or physical contact. I really hate these days. Ugh. 


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## SimplyAmorous

Ikaika said:


> It is rare nowadays when my wife and I part for our respective jobs or other activities to *not* kiss and tell each other have safe day (or something to that affect).
> 
> Anyway, we sort of had a blow out fight this morning. The issue is not as important as that we did not resolve the anger and we parted with no words or physical contact. I really hate these days. Ugh.


 The fact that you HATE it.. helps bring you back together quicker though, doesn't it? .. If you were numb to it..or just plain stubborn...then it could go on longer, where you & she slip into just roommates.. 

Who generally brings the Olive branch ?? Hopefully you both do... thought I'd ask..


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## Ikaika

SimplyAmorous said:


> The fact that you HATE it.. helps bring you back together quicker though, doesn't it? .. If you were numb to it..or just plain stubborn...then it could go on longer, where you & she slip into just roommates..
> 
> 
> 
> Who generally brings the Olive branch ?? Hopefully you both do... thought I'd ask..




I will admit I can often be more stubborn, but I think this time I should be the one with the olive branch. 


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## CharlieParker

BTDT, not nice but we usually cool off while apart, then naturally fall back into our happier routine (a rat/maze thing), and then work on the issue. Hope it's similar for you.


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## Ikaika

CharlieParker said:


> BTDT, not nice but we usually cool off while apart, then naturally fall back into our happier routine (a rat/maze thing), and then work on the issue. Hope it's similar for you.




I pretty sure it will be. Making up for us can be exciting. 


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## Ikaika

We are good 


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## SimplyAmorous

CharlieParker said:


> BTDT, not nice but we usually cool off while apart, then naturally fall back into our happier routine (a rat/maze thing), and then work on the issue. Hope it's similar for you.


I am thinking the majority is more like this...what you describe here CharlieParker...

We're a little different.. There have been times I'd slam a door in a huff... (frustrated) but then... I come crawling back as *I can't stay away.*...

All in all.. our fighting style is rather humorous... I open the crack of the door telling him I am so pathetic that I can't stay away from him.... .never fails.. he gets this corner smile on his face .. he likes that !! 

Truth is.. we're both kinda worthless, feeling the weight of the world ...just miserable when we're at odds... we both hate it.. this keeps our fights very short lived.. it's like we have to just wade through it ...finding our peace.. He listens to me.. I listen to him. we unload..

I am more the hot head for sure.. but he handles me so well...it's hard to stay mad at the man.. I know it's ME who needs to bring that dang olive branch... though he's done it even when it was my place.... Just gotta love him for putting up with me - at times.. 

I am betting you feel this way about your wife @Ikaika , as you said you can be stubborn, probably more your place to bring the olive branch...



Ikaika said:


> I pretty sure it will be. Making up for us can be exciting.


Making up can be very passionate. I've said this before... Mine's accused me of fighting - just for make up sex a # of times over the past 8 yrs... I swear it's not true.. but yet.. I sure don't mind it either!


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## Ikaika

It's my wife's birthday today. 


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## CharlieParker

Hau`oli Lā Hānau


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## Blondilocks

Happy Birthday I2!


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## Ikaika

I know I did not finish this story (back when I had a different login name) and maybe someday I will. Long story short, years before I came to TAM, my marriage was a mess, my family was a mess and generally both of us were disconnected with each other. 

It is not as if everything is perfect, but we are far more connected and less dysfunctional in marriage and family, today. We both made changes, but for me it really boiled down to - stop drinking and making healthy changes. I feel better about myself, my wife and my sons. Our biggest challenge still remains our oldest son who has lifelong mental disability. But, even there I get less depressed and upset about and take it one day at a time. He still has some promise to at least live a life independent from us. Our hope and continued working with him goes on. 

This is not necessarily a happy ever after ending, it is just a message that even after many years of working at it (continually) and even at our age we can be a better "us". We still have our challenges but we know we can work through them. 

The only thing I can say I do not look forward to is the day when one of us becomes a primary caregiver for the other. Of course, we try to fight our age with a healthier lifestyle. That will be a continuation of the struggles we live. Is it (was it) worth it? Simply put, yes. 




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## Blondilocks

The day you become the primary caregiver for your spouse is the day you realize the full depth of your love for that person. It is an honor and a blessing.


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## wild jade

I admit I haven't read your whole thread, but I still wanted to thank you for posting it. I find your words inspiring, much more so than if it were all about happily ever after. 

I too worry about the primary caregiver thing. I fear it will happen too soon, too young, and frankly I'm not very good at looking after people. It's amazing to me that you've already put so much into care-giving and can face more with equanimity.


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## Ikaika

wild jade said:


> I admit I haven't read your whole thread, but I still wanted to thank you for posting it. I find your words inspiring, much more so than if it were all about happily ever after.
> 
> 
> 
> I too worry about the primary caregiver thing. I fear it will happen too soon, too young, and frankly I'm not very good at looking after people. It's amazing to me that you've already put so much into care-giving and can face more with equanimity.




The entire thread is something to read when you are experiencing insomnia but have a busy day the next day. :grin2:

I appreciate the compliment. I continue to view our marriage as a journey, a journey filled with lots of things, challenges, joy, etc... I had hoped that my journey could help someone else in any small manner but I never know who reads threads in this particular forum. 


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## CharlieParker

First they get masturbated, now they get themselves high, Development of an opioid self-administration assay to study drug seeking in zebrafish, what's next?


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## heartsbeating

Blondilocks said:


> The day you become the primary caregiver for your spouse is the day you realize the full depth of your love for that person. It is an honor and a blessing.


Beautifully expressed. 

And all part of a journey.

Ikaika, consider yourself read!


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## aine

Ikaika said:


> summarize two points that has worked for us thus far:
> 
> 1. communication is important... but also the type of communication is what is even more important. We don't talk past each other (if this makes sense).
> 
> 2. Family is important... not just our immediate family but your extended families. Feeling part of the tribe, I felt has made my marriage stronger


This is so true.

Communication was never our strong point, just lots of arguing and sticking to our guns, now as we are getting older, there is less inclination to resort to arguing and more listening I think, maybe we have mellowed, maybe there is less at stake, but I listen more I think.

Extended family is very important especially when mine is so far away, however I am not close to his family and now that my kids are away I notice it even more.

Ikaika, thank you for this thread, it is inspiring. I am married 25 years this year, many times I have wanted to walk away from my marriage, we have been through so much but my H is turning himself around, no more drinking, more attentive since I got back, said he likes to spend time with me, maybe we both are beginning a new chapter after almost closing the book. Marriage is definitely not easy, it is never perfect.


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## Ikaika

Mr and Mrs Claus (i.e., Mr & Mrs Drerio or also known as Mr & Mrs. Ikaika) celebrate 23 years today. 


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## farsidejunky

Congrats!


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## CharlieParker

Happy anniversary! 🥂🍾


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## Affaircare

One Claus to another--congratulations and many, many more, ʻOhana.


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## Ikaika

Too busy after today, a week from today we make 25 years. It is far from a perfect marriage, but it is our marriage. 


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## Adelais

Early Congratulations, Ikaika!

How is your oldest son doing these days? I don't mean to ignore your other child(ren) I just remember how emotionally challenging he was for you for a while.


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## TBT

Ikaika said:


> Too busy after today, a week from today we make 25 years. It is far from a perfect marriage, but it is our marriage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


It takes work,sometimes very hard work,to endure. I may not be around later on,so I want to say congratulations to you and the mrs.,Ikaika on 25 years! Wishing you both many,many more my friend.


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## Ikaika

Adelais said:


> Early Congratulations, Ikaika!
> 
> 
> 
> How is your oldest son doing these days? I don't mean to ignore your other child(ren) I just remember how emotionally challenging he was for you for a while.




Thank you. My son is good, he is managing the best he can. 


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## Ikaika

TBT said:


> It takes work,sometimes very hard work,to endure. I may not be around later on,so I want to say congratulations to you and the mrs.,Ikaika on 25 years! Wishing you both many,many more my friend.




Thank you. I’m not sure I’ll live long enough to see 25 more. 


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## jane jasmine

amazing read


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## Ikaika

Celebrating 26 years of marriage, today.


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## Laurentium

Congratulations!


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## TBT

Hey, congratulations to you both!


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## heartsbeating

Ikaika said:


> Too busy after today, a week from today we make 25 years. It is far from a perfect marriage, but it is our marriage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Awww ... 🥰


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## BrokenVows

Happy Belated Anniversary! Hope you and Mrs. Ikaika enjoyed your special day!


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## Ikaika

Tomorrow we say goodbye to a trusted and loved member of our family. I will miss her dearly, my heart breaks. But, it is time. 

I truly believe she saved my life. I was drinking heavily, obese and just not in a good place, then she came into our lives. She is my son’s dog, but I walked her twice a day and in the beginning she forced me to run. I lost weight, and helped me to no longer be selfish. I will miss my Kaia.


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## Ikaika

We have had her for nearly 12 years and my youngest son was just eight years old at the time. My son is this strong (football player type), but he is balling his eyes out. It is hard.


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## CharlieParker

💐


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## heartsbeating




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## blahfridge

It is so hard to lose a beloved pet; they are family. Sorry for your loss, @Ikaika. 💐


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## Blondilocks




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## Ikaika

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## farsidejunky

There is no easy way to do this, brother. As you have already done, all you can do is cherish the now, and honor the memory afterwards. 

I hate it for you guys. 

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