# I don't know what to do



## swimmer05 (May 31, 2016)

Hello, I'm here hoping to find some advice and guidance in my marriage. My name is Andrew, I'm 29 y/o and have been married for 3 years. My wife and I have been together since high school, ~11yrs. Over the past couple years I have felt myself becoming increasingly more emotionally/physically distant with my wife, so much so that I've been contemplating the idea of divorce. 

We started dating back in high school, made it through college......anything we've done since we were 16 has been done together. I finally proposed to her about 4 years ago after finding a stable job and we moved in with each other after getting married 1 year later. 

Less than a year into our marriage I suffered a severe injury while undergoing training at the police academy which took me almost 9-months to recover/rehabilitate from. During that time our sex life dropped off precipitously due to me dealing with what I now know was depression that resulted from the injury and having to resign from a dream job. Since then our relationship with each other has progressively gotten more distant. Our sex life now remains limited to say the least (1x/week on average) and when we do spend time with each other I feel uncomfortable like I'm just "tagging along". Basically, being around her just creates this feeling of "sadness" in me most of the time (don't know how else to explain it). I do still try to regularly show my affection (kissing/hugging/etc...), but she often says she "just doesn't want to be touched".
I always feel like I'm trying to make up for something I've done wrong, but she won't communicate with me as to what that may or may not be.

A big part of why I feel the way I do is because of how cruel (verbally and physically) she can be to me when she is upset. I finally drew the line about 10-months ago when she hit me multiple times during an argument........she had thrown things at me before, but never anything like that. I ended up leaving for several days, but obviously returned. She hasn't hit me since then, but can still be quite cruel with words.

Obviously there are always 2-sides to everything and I'm probably leaving a lot out. I'm just not sure what to do anymore. I do love her very much. She's the only one who I've ever been with, but it hurts so much to see how others that are in love/getting married treat each other and then have to ask myself why that isn't us anymore. 

Basically, I'm just looking for some advice as to what I should do or how I should feel? I just know that I don't want to live the rest of my life feeling like I have the past couple years. Thank you all for taking the time to read through my wall of text.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi Andrew......I am glad that you have decided to reach out and seek advice here. It is a good place. .....Helped me get through the tough times. The first thing that strikes me about your situation is that you two have been together so long. You have no depth of experience and that's not something that weighs in your favor. She seems to be pulling away from the marriage. The fact that she is lashing out and even HITTING you is totally unsatisfactory. You need to draw the line on this behavior. I would advise asking her if she would be willing to attend marriage counseling. If she refuses there is not much you can do except to begin preparing for what may come down the line. Let's start with that for now and see what others have to say and if you have further questions. Your feelings are what they are.....Don't worry about how you think you should feel. You feel how you feel and that's ok. Just go with it because your feelings will change over time as your perspective changes. Keep us informed.....


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

Do you really love her very much or is she simply the only female you know?

If you have no kids I see no reason to continue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

What's the injury?
Do you have a job?
Could there be a reason she is upset with you all the time?

Yeah, see a pro
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## swimmer05 (May 31, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> What's the injury?
> Do you have a job?
> Could there be a reason she is upset with you all the time?
> 
> ...


-It was a shoulder injury that rendered my left arm disabled for quite a few months.
-I do have a job, and make substantially more than she does.
-I'm sure there is, I'm not perfect by any measure. I definitely could help out around the house more through cleaning, etc... 

The other things that has really been aggravating me lately is that I'm an active guy.....I love exercising, hiking, etc. However, for the past few years she hasn't wanted much to do with any of that stuff and it shows, she has put on probably 80lbs. I've already conveyed my feelings about her weight to her and she hasn't made any effort to join me at the gym or even work out on our own. As an aside to that I also feel like she doesn't really "try" to look good anymore, whereas I still make an effort daily.

My problem is I can't really put a finger on what the issue is.......it seems like there are a lot.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Andrew the only path I see for you two right now is counseling. Read some of the other hundreds of similar posts on this site and you will find advice that you can use. Pay particular attention to the "180" Learn what it is but put it in your hip pocket for now. You need to get into counseling asap.


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## swimmer05 (May 31, 2016)

Counseling is a scary step for me, but if it's what needs to be done then so be it. I guess that will at least force us both to acknowledge that there are very real problems with "us" right now. I just have to figure out what and how to bring this up to her without it turning into another shout-fest or multi-day silent treatment.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Go ahead and start doing more around the house just be sure that both of you know that the reason you are doing more is so that you will be ready to handle everything alone if that ends up being the future. 

Depression is hard to live with and it has changed her emotionally and physically. I am glad to see that you are now active and ahead of that. It appears that she is still suffering from it.

Abuse is a serious situation. Especially in your case as no one will believe you. Read up on it. Go into arguments with your hands in your pockets. Get medical treatment for any injuries you receive. Don't lie about how you were hurt. 

Being active and having hobbies is attractive, Keep it up. 

The weight is her problem. Let her deal with it (or not) on her own terms. Your complements will do more good than your criticism.

BTW you screen name seems to indicate that you are regularly swimming. That shoulder must be doing very well.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Verbal abuse and physical abuse is not to be tolerated by either gender in a loving relationship. Leave. She is likely to not get better. I don't care what her reasons are - she's a hot-headed bully and whether or not you were going through a rough patch, she has no excuse to act like that. You have a duty to take care of yourself mentally and so yes, the depression is on you. But she is the only one responsible for verbal abuse and hitting.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Unless she's 6'5", 80 pounds is quite a lot of weight to put on. I'd venture to say that is why you're not having sex. I don't feel sexy when I need to lose weight (like right now). Makes me pretty turned off to sex, actually.

Sorry she's being abusive to you .


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

swimmer05 said:


> A big part of why I feel the way I do is because of how cruel (verbally and physically) she can be to me when she is upset. I finally drew the line about 10-months ago when she hit me multiple times during an argument........she had thrown things at me before, but never anything like that.


Andrew, an important issue is whether this verbal and physical abuse has been persistent over many years or, rather, has started occurring only in the past two years. If I understand you correctly, your W's verbal abuse and "throwing things" started shortly after your wedding three years ago (before you were injured 9 months later). Is that correct? Did you see signs of such abusive behavior prior to the wedding? 

What I'm trying to understand is whether you saw signs early on in your 11-year relationship that she has anger issues and has difficulty regulating her own emotions, e.g., lacks the ability to do self soothing to calm herself down (a skill that most of us learn in childhood).


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## swimmer05 (May 31, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> Go ahead and start doing more around the house just be sure that both of you know that the reason you are doing more is so that you will be ready to handle everything alone if that ends up being the future.
> 
> Depression is hard to live with and it has changed her emotionally and physically. I am glad to see that you are now active and ahead of that. It appears that she is still suffering from it.
> 
> ...


I own the mistakes I made dealing with my own issues, neither of us knew how to identify or deal with them properly. I still struggle sometimes knowing that path is no longer in the cards, but I'm moving forward with the new doors that were opened to me.

As far as the injury goes, I'm for the most part back in to the physical shape I used to be beforehand. My desk job makes it more difficult these days though lol.



SecondTime'Round said:


> Unless she's 6'5", 80 pounds is quite a lot of weight to put on. I'd venture to say that is why you're not having sex. I don't feel sexy when I need to lose weight (like right now). Makes me pretty turned off to sex, actually.
> 
> Sorry she's being abusive to you .


She's not that tall! Probably 5'5" or so. She used to be a swimmer with me, that's how we met, but not so much anymore sadly. She is still very pretty........but I will admit that it's very frustrating to me that she did this to herself. She knows how important being healthy is to me since I have a brother who is morbidly obese and is suffering from many medical conditions before 30 that most wouldn't see until 60+. 

I also try to be as supportive as I can........I've continued a gym membership for us both and always invite her to come with me at times when I know there won't be many people there. She will no longer swim with me anywhere because she doesn't want to be in a suit. Yet, when I suggest healthier snacks such as apples instead of oreos she quickly gives me attitude and ends the shopping trip.



Uptown said:


> Andrew, an important issue is whether this verbal and physical abuse has been persistent over many years or, rather, has started occurring only in the past two years. If I understand you correctly, your W's verbal abuse and "throwing things" started shortly after your wedding three years ago (before you were injured 9 months later). Is that correct? Did you see signs of such abusive behavior prior to the wedding?
> 
> What I'm trying to understand is whether you saw signs early on in your 11-year relationship that she has anger issues and has difficulty regulating her own emotions, e.g., lacks the ability to do self soothing to calm herself down (a skill that most of us learn in childhood).


If I'm being honest with myself, the verbal side of things has been present for while............I tended to shake it off, people say things they don't always mean. The frequency and intensity of it increased markedly since moving into together however. I don't believe she respects or trusts me, nor do I believe she has for a while. She says quite often that she resents me, but for what I'm not quite clear about. 

There were probably quite a few signs before we got married. She's always had a short temper with some people, particularly me, but I will admit that I can get annoying sometimes. It was never enough to drive us apart though. In fact the only time we separated was when my father passed away 5 years, and that was only for a few months.

----
Processing these feelings I have now hurts very much. She has been a part of me for so long that I do not want to be without her, but I also don't see how I can continue with the way things are. I struggle with saying that she is not the same person I fell in love with, but the truth is I'm not sure who she is anymore.

We haven't had a real discussion about our future in over a year. She says it would be nice to move and get a house, yet she makes no attempts to improve her 13k/year salary or complete her bachelors so that she can move into a full-time teaching position, knowing full well my career in social services cannot support us both in the level which she seeks.

I suppose I need to take a piece of my own advice that I give everyday and just take this 1 step at a time..........there's no sense in trying to figure out the answer to step 5 when I haven't even gotten to 1 yet. I'm going to look into counseling and once I have more information I'll present the option to her.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

Just remember, once and if you start counseling if something seems not quite right with that particular counselor, find another. You may not find the ideal match right out of the gate. Go with your gut. It's ok to change.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

swimmer05 said:


> The verbal side of things has been present for while.....The frequency and intensity of it increased markedly since moving into together however. I don't believe she respects or trusts me.... She says quite often that she resents me.... There were probably quite a few signs before we got married. She's always had a short temper with some people, particularly me.


Andrew, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., event-triggered irrational anger, controlling behavior, inability to trust you, verbal and physical abuse, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot -- especially after you've been living with a woman for 3 years -- because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Indeed, nobody on the planet can truly diagnose BPD because nobody has yet proven what it is that actually CAUSES this disorder. The main reason for learning these red flags, then -- like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack -- is to help you avoid a very painful situation -- and help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money seeking a professional opinion.



> She hit me multiple times during an argument........she had thrown things at me before, but never anything like that.


The repeated physical battering of a partner or spouse is strongly associated with having strong traits of a personality disorder, particularly BPD. This is why "intense, inappropriate anger" is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. 

If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent BPD traits), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

For these reasons, the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at *50% of Batterers are BPDers*. Similarly, a *2008 study* and a *2012 study* find a strong association between violence and BPD. 



> She has put on probably 80lbs.


Likewise, my BPDer exW gained about 80 pounds in the two years following our wedding. Because BPDers have a weak fragile self identity, they quickly develop a frightening feeling of being engulfed during intimacy -- which they oftentimes experience (at a conscious level) as being controlled or taken over by your strong personality. This fear is not triggered during the courtship period because her infatuation over you holds her fears at bay.

It therefore is common, with BPDers, for the sexual frequency to go off a cliff right after the wedding, if not before. Of course, one easy way of pushing the spouse away is to simply gain weight and become physically unattractive. And, because a substantial share of BPDers were sexually abused during childhood, those BPDers have an added incentive to gain weight so as to feel safe around their husbands and other men.



> I don't believe she respects or trusts me.


If she is a BPDer, that lack of trust is to be expected. Because BPDers are emotionally unstable and have a weak sense of self identity, they are unable to trust themselves. Until they learn how to do that, they are incapable of trusting anyone else.



> I'm just looking for some advice as to what I should do


My advice, Andrew, is to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if most seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Andrew.


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## swimmer05 (May 31, 2016)

My mother is actually a social worker...........she and my wife do not get along for various reasons, but she has mentioned in the past about the possibility of my wife being BPD. I definitely need some time to process everything, it's not something I've really ever taken the opportunity to do. Talking about the situation has helped put parts of it into perspective.


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## swimmer05 (May 31, 2016)

Well.....I tried to talk with her about things tonight and seeing a counselor. She was disinterested in the idea and talking with me in general. She blames our relationship status on my mother and "how I act like mr. perfect". I tried to tell her again how I feel about us and that I don't want to give up but can't keep the hamster wheel going. She basically told me to do whatever I wanted, but didn't know why I wanted to see a counselor and once again referred back to me as the problem. Another night of us in separate rooms, but at least I've spoke my piece to her............hopefully she comes around.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

No Andrew.....I don't see a positive resolution here with her being so hostile. You need to take control of this situation as she seems to be dictating the tone and you are in a reactionary mode. You need to choose the path of your future and head for it....she either joins you or you cut her loose. Any other course of action will drive you nuts and be very painful for a very long time.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

swimmer05 said:


> She basically told me to do whatever I wanted, but didn't know why I wanted to see a counselor and once again referred back to me as the problem.


Andrew, if she really does exhibit strong and persistent BPD traits, it is extremely unlikely that she has the self awareness and ego strength necessary to remain in therapy long enough to make a real difference. I would be surprised if any more than 1% of high functioning BPDers ever accomplish that in IT (individual therapy) with a psychologist.

If by "counselor" you are referring to a MC (marriage counselor), my experience is that MC is a total waste of time until the high functioning BPDer has had at least several years of IT to address the more serious underlying issues. Although MCs are good at teaching communication skills, a BPDer's issues are far more serious than that. 

With my exW, for example, I spent a small fortune taking her to weekly visits -- for 15 years -- to three different MCs and 6 psychologists. None of them made a dent -- not one dent -- in her BPD symptoms.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You've known her for a while so....

- did something trigger this on her (not you or your sequence of events)

- how's her family mental health wise?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

swimmer05 said:


> She hasn't hit me since then, but can still be quite cruel with words.




So she's still verbally abusive. And the physical abuse sounded rare enough that she just hasn't felt the rage in a while. But don't worry, she will. That's what abuse victims do. They look for silver linings like that. "It's not so bad, it could have been BOTH eyes..."




swimmer05 said:


> I ended up leaving for several days, but obviously returned.



Yes, obviously. And that's why she's still....

You came home too soon. She NEVER bought it. And now you're just the whinny little pi$$-ant that can't even fire a proper warning shot.

*****.

And I'd better not EVER see dirty dishes in the sink again when I come home or I'll give you something to cry about...!!!

She's still in control. And she likes it. She needs to HEAR you next time.


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