# Why so few reviews for Counselors/Therapists?



## Casual Observer

I finally got referred out to Magellan for couple counseling (my HMO only does IC). You have to jump through hoops to figure out how to find the therapists in your area that are part of the Magellan network, but when you finally do, what you get is... a list of names. Pretty much nothing more. Names and what their primary specialties are. You can select for marriage/family counseling, you can choose for male or female, and you can choose the area. And then you get a bunch of names.

So you google the names and discover that virtually nobody in their network gets any reviews whatsoever, even people who have been around for AGES. Why is this? How do you figure out who will be a good fit for you?

Another surprise... so few websites. You would think people would get a clue; websites have been around for over 20 years now, and at least 90% don't have a website. That's just nuts. 

Is there a secret doorway I don't know of? Thanks-


----------



## StarFires

I'm glad there aren't. I always recommend people interview a few counselors before going to one.


----------



## Casual Observer

StarFires said:


> I'm glad there aren't. I always recommend people interview a few counselors before going to one.


Interesting perspective. But some of us may have a shortage of both time and common sense. Plus, is it generally the case that first impressions are correct? That this isn't something where what appeals to you up front may be exactly the wrong thing to be looking for? 

Not trying to argue, just curious. Obviously this is new to me. It's especially tough since it's a decision for two people (myself and my wife), not just me. And if I go with my wife, do I really want to bring up the heavy stuff during the meet & greet, to see how the therapist plays?


----------



## StarFires

I usually suggest calling and talking with therapists to interview them. Ask questions that (loosely) pertain to problems in your marriage to see if they have dealt with that type of situation and if they have specific ways of addressing them to help you both overcome them.

You have to remember that you don't want in a marriage counselor what you expect in an individual counselor - someone to sit and listen and maybe give you feedback. A marriage counselor should have ways for you and your wife to address and overcome your issues, not let you sit there griping at and complaining about each other. They should teach you communication skills, conflict resolution, etc. and should have instructions, questionnaires, and worksheets for you both to go home and work on.

They shouldn't be bi!ch sessions, but the counselor shouldn't take sides either. It makes a person feel good for a counselor to tell them how right they are and tell your spouse how wrong they are. But that shouldn't happen. They should be able to teach you how to compromise. They are not your mommy to referee and settle your disagreements but should be able to teach you how to do that on your own.

I'm honestly a big proponent of MarriageBuilders.com. So many more resources there than most marriage counselors have in their arsenal. Save the money and travel time and do it yourself on that website. There's also the forum, you can contact a coach if you need help along the way, and there is Dr. Harley broadcast, plus seminar and home study courses.

I just remembered you mentioned your insurance but I don't think you can use that on the site, but the free stuff is better than most marriage counselors I've heard about, and I've heard about a lot durng the 16 or 17 years I've spent frequenting relationship sites. So I think you'll do well to at least begin there. You and your wife will get an awful lot of principles and concepts under your belt, and they help to strengthen your marriage.

If you're interested, let me know and I'll suggest how to get started and a schedule.


----------



## StarFires

I mentioned that a marriage counselor isn't your mommy and should be settle arguments, but I meant to add that it's what so many of them do because they think it's their job when their job is to teach you how to handle your problems, not solve your problems.

ETA: Oops I still said it wrong - the shouldn't be settling arguments.


----------



## Casual Observer

StarFires said:


> I usually suggest calling and talking with therapists to interview them. Ask questions that (loosely) pertain to problems in your marriage to see if they have dealt with that type of situation and if they have specific ways of addressing them to help you both overcome them.
> 
> You have to remember that you don't want in a marriage counselor what you expect in an individual counselor - someone to sit and listen and maybe give you feedback. A marriage counselor should have ways for you and your wife to address and overcome your issues, not let you sit there griping at and complaining about each other. They should teach you communication skills, conflict resolution, etc. and should have instructions, questionnaires, and worksheets for you both to go home and work on.
> 
> They shouldn't be bi!ch sessions, but the counselor shouldn't take sides either. It makes a person feel good for a counselor to tell them how right they are and tell your spouse how wrong they are. But that shouldn't happen. They should be able to teach you how to compromise. They are not your mommy to referee and settle your disagreements but should be able to teach you how to do that on your own.
> 
> I'm honestly a big proponent of MarriageBuilders.com. So many more resources there than most marriage counselors have in their arsenal. Save the money and travel time and do it yourself on that website. There's also the forum, you can contact a coach if you need help along the way, and there is Dr. Harley broadcast, plus seminar and home study courses.
> 
> I just remembered you mentioned your insurance but I don't think you can use that on the site, but the free stuff is better than most marriage counselors I've heard about, and I've heard about a lot durng the 16 or 17 years I've spent frequenting relationship sites. So I think you'll do well to at least begin there. You and your wife will get an awful lot of principles and concepts under your belt, and they help to strengthen your marriage.
> 
> If you're interested, let me know and I'll suggest how to get started and a schedule.


Great info, thanks. Initially I need to let the HMO-provided scenario play out; it's what my wife expects, and I don't want to be seeming to force something different. But I'm definitely going to look into it! I think, for her, it's going to work a lot better hearing from an MC in person, with both of us hearing the same message at the same time. I think. Others have a lot more experience at this stuff than me though; we'll have been married 40 years in two weeks and never been through any sort of counseling prior to this. We had problems, but they were under the surface, gaining momentum without making themselves strongly visible. In the long run, the thing that set everything off, me reading her diary, may have saved our marriage. She had a ton of built-up resentment that she wasn't voicing. I had no idea. Things are so much better off now than before.


----------



## StarFires

oooooohh you read your wife's diaryyyyy. 
She didn't clobber you with a frying pan? LOL

But great that you did, as it turns out. She's probably grateful.

Good luck with the counseling, and don't forget to interview a few to get an idea of their methods. I just want to suggest that you pay attention during the sessions to make sure it's working for BOTH of you. You shouldn't allow that your wife is being put down or that you are being put down either. Believe it or not, I've heard of some counselors doing that, and it's awful for that spouse to be in or leave sessions feeling like they and their feelings were eroded or diminished.

And even though you're not going the do-it-yourself route, the MarriageBuilders site is still extremely helpful and a great addendum to counseling. If I may suggest just that you and your wife read a couple or three of the articles and apply those concepts. If you're not comfortable introducing her to the site yet, then these first two you can read and apply on your own. She will notice the difference and probably join you.

The Love Bank
Love Busters
Policy of Joint Agreement


----------



## StillSearching

"Why so few reviews for Counselors/Therapists?"
MC's...Because most of them sell pipe dreams under the guise of help.
They gotta eat too.....

I went to 4 different MC over the course of 15 years.

In the end, it's always a do-it-yourself route.....
I highly recommend IC. And ask for homework.


----------



## wilson

As to the general question, maybe it's just not something that people feel like leaving reviews for. There are plenty of sites which allow people to leave reviews that the doctor doesn't have any involvement with. Sites like google, yelp, doctor finder websites, etc. allow people to leave reviews. So if there aren't reviews, it's because people don't write them. It's not because the doctor didn't enable reviews or have a website.


----------



## Casual Observer

wilson said:


> As to the general question, maybe it's just not something that people feel like leaving reviews for. There are plenty of sites which allow people to leave reviews that the doctor doesn't have any involvement with. Sites like google, yelp, doctor finder websites, etc. allow people to leave reviews. So if there aren't reviews, it's because people don't write them. It's not because the doctor didn't enable reviews or have a website.


Agreed the lack of reviews has nothing to do with the doctors/therapists. Just a curious thing that patients don't write anything. The lack of websites remains curious though; unless there's a real excess of clients/shortage of therapists, doing something that costs virtually nothing and dramatically increases your visibility, not to mention likely improves the comfort a patient has in selecting you, seems like a no-brainer.


----------



## Casual Observer

StarFires said:


> oooooohh you read your wife's diaryyyyy.
> She didn't clobber you with a frying pan? LOL
> 
> But great that you did, as it turns out. She's probably grateful.
> 
> Good luck with the counseling, and don't forget to interview a few to get an idea of their methods. I just want to suggest that you pay attention during the sessions to make sure it's working for BOTH of you. You shouldn't allow that your wife is being put down or that you are being put down either. Believe it or not, I've heard of some counselors doing that, and it's awful for that spouse to be in or leave sessions feeling like they and their feelings were eroded or diminished.
> 
> And even though you're not going the do-it-yourself route, the MarriageBuilders site is still extremely helpful and a great addendum to counseling. If I may suggest just that you and your wife read a couple or three of the articles and apply those concepts. If you're not comfortable introducing her to the site yet, then these first two you can read and apply on your own. She will notice the difference and probably join you.
> 
> The Love Bank
> Love Busters
> Policy of Joint Agreement


Yes, I would much rather it work best for my wife than me, because I plan to continue living with my wife for the rest of my days and if she feels better, it's better for me. I would much rather see her mental health not dependent upon anti-depressants that stunt her ability to be empathetic and understanding where others are coming from, than continue as things are. The most painful part of reading that diary was seeing how exciting things were for her back then. It's pretty clear she chose me as a "safe" path for the future. Need to bring back some excitement. 

I really want to thank you, again, for your thoughts. At 63 I'm supposed to have everything figured out, right? At 63 I'm supposed to think it's OK for sex to be on the decline, right? At 63 I'm supposed to be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and I am. But it's an oncoming train. 

I think what I want most from counseling is for each of us to be able to see things through the other's eyes and mind. I would like to see discussion (OK, I think I understand why you feel that way...) instead of argument (Why do you think that???!!!) (And the "why" is rhetorical because she really has no interest in why, she just thinks I'm wrong to think it).


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

StillSearching said:


> "Why so few reviews for Counselors/Therapists?"
> MC's...Because most of them sell pipe dreams under the guise of help.
> They gotta eat too.....
> 
> I went to 4 different MC over the course of 15 years.
> 
> In the end, it's always a do-it-yourself route.....
> I highly recommend IC. And ask for homework.


Interesting. 

It would seem that one would decide all counselors are selling pipe dreams or all can be of use. 

Curious why you think ICers are useful while MCers aren't.


----------



## StillSearching

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Interesting.
> 
> It would seem that one would decide all counselors are selling pipe dreams or all can be of use.
> 
> Curious why you think ICers are useful while MCers aren't.


From my experience a MC seems to settle into a side that will perpetuate visits.
The last MC I went to swore my wife was being honest, I asked the MC..."Does not the absolute truth matter?" She said "Your truth or her truth.." 
Like The Truth was inside the marriage somewhere...The truth I was asking about was "Was/is she having another affair" This went on for a year plus, while she was still seeing OM.

With my IC The Truth was all I had to work with. 
It was inside me...


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

StillSearching said:


> From my experience a MC seems to settle into a side that will perpetuate visits.
> The last MC I went to swore my wife was being honest, I asked the MC..."Does not the absolute truth matter?" She said "Your truth or her truth.."
> Like The Truth was inside the marriage somewhere...The truth I was asking about was "Was/is she having another affair" This went on for a year plus, while she was still seeing OM.
> 
> With my IC The Truth was all I had to work with.
> It was inside me...


Thanks for the explanation.

I will say that our MC was quite helpful. We also used him for IC for each of us and while some will say that creates a conflict of interest, it worked best for us. His knowing each of us individually really helped him work with us as a couple. 

Now full disclosure, we never really arrived at any real "answers" but rather we got a lot better at framing the questions, understanding our own feelings, and explaining our needs so that we can better approach answers ourselves. But while there was a lot of our own DIY in the end, the MC was still very helpful in getting us to the point we could DIY.


----------



## StillSearching

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> I will say that our MC was quite helpful. We also used him for IC for each of us and while some will say that creates a conflict of interest, it worked best for us. His knowing each of us individually really helped him work with us as a couple.
> 
> Now full disclosure, we never really arrived at any real "answers" but rather we got a lot better at framing the questions, understanding our own feelings, and explaining our needs so that we can better approach answers ourselves. But while there was a lot of our own DIY in the end, the MC was still very helpful in getting us to the point we could DIY.


Thanks for your explanation.
I will NEVER recommend MC after my experiences, unless it's just an end to get to IC and not to fix a marriage.
MC is worthless.....on it's own merits.


----------



## StarFires

StillSearching said:


> She said "Your truth or her truth.."
> Like The Truth was inside the marriage somewhere...The truth I was asking about was "Was/is she having another affair" This went on for a year plus, while she was still seeing OM.


And so I can only imagine how that probably made you feel, like you didn't matter and wanting information (the truth) didn't matter. That's the kind of thing I was trying to warn Casual Observer about. If people don't know the types of things to look out for, then they keep going back.

I remember a lady telling about going to MC for a year or whatever and the counselor asking her "Well, do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?" But under no circumstances should there ever a moment arrise that someone has to be asked that kind of question. She had complaints about her husband and instead of teaching them how to work through their differences, he had no better resources at his disposal than to make one of his clients feel like she had nothing to be unhappy about and no right to complain.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> But while there was a lot of our own DIY in the end, the MC was still very helpful in getting us to the point we could DIY.


And that's what marriage counseling should be - giving the couple the tools and techniques to work things out on their own and how prevent things from getting out of control. It should never be about playing mommy or daddy to resolve the couple's arguments, and then send them on their way to play nice together. Bravo to your therapist!


----------



## StillSearching

StarFires said:


> And so I can only imagine how that probably made you feel, like you didn't matter and wanting information (the truth) didn't matter. That's the kind of thing I was trying to warn Casual Observer about. If people don't know the types of things to look out for, then they keep going back.


Yup...
How it made me feel? Like she was after money and had no business in counseling couples. 
I wasn't asking because I wanted info, I knew about the affair, I was asking to see if The ACTUAL truth was important to the MC.
It wasn't.
The truth is paramount to repair a broken relationship and MUST contain it.
A manipulation of the truth, or an omission of it is counterproductive and frivolous. 
It's the foundation of the universe.

BTW she was an excellent IC.


----------



## Laurentium

MC is a very different skill-set from IC. 



StillSearching said:


> The last MC I went to swore my wife was being honest, I asked the MC..."Does not the absolute truth matter?" She said "Your truth or her truth.."
> Like The Truth was inside the marriage somewhere...The truth I was asking about was "Was/is she having another affair" This went on for a year plus, while she was still seeing OM.


That's appalling. 

All I can say is not all MCs are as bad as that.


----------



## personofinterest

I think a good marriage counselor will understand what the problem actually is. For example, I know one of the common focus areas for marriage counselors is communication. That is fine and dandy, but if you are going to see a marriage counselor because 1 of you cheated, communication is not what you need. There needs to be guidance about healing and honesty and other things. Too many marriage counselors just go through a litany of prefab tools in my opinion.


I think individual counseling can be even tougher to figure out. It is my experience that most people who pooh pooh the idea of counseling at all are people who just don't want to have to change anything. However, I would have some ground rules if my spouse were going to individual counseling for something like an affair. For example, if I were a betrayed husband, I would not want my wife to have a female individual counselor. Or if she did, I would want it understood that I had access to what they were discussing. I don't want my wife going to counseling because she cheated and have it turn into an eat, pray, love girl power session.


----------



## Laurentium

personofinterest said:


> It is my experience that most people who pooh pooh the idea of counseling at all are people who just don't want to have to change anything.


QFT


----------



## personofinterest

At the risk of getting George Hamilton all riled up, I do think that many of the marriage builders books and materials are good. I would advise against going to the forum.


----------



## StarFires

personofinterest said:


> I think a good marriage counselor will understand what the problem actually is. For example, I know one of the common focus areas for marriage counselors is communication. That is fine and dandy, but if you are going to see a marriage counselor because 1 of you cheated, communication is not what you need. There needs to be guidance about healing and honesty and other things. Too many marriage counselors just go through a litany of prefab tools in my opinion.
> 
> I think individual counseling can be even tougher to figure out. It is my experience that most people who pooh pooh the idea of counseling at all are people who just don't want to have to change anything. However, I would have some ground rules if my spouse were going to individual counseling for something like an affair. For example, if I were a betrayed husband, I would not want my wife to have a female individual counselor. Or if she did, I would want it understood that I had access to what they were discussing. I don't want my wife going to counseling because she cheated and have it turn into an eat, pray, love girl power session.


I have to disagree just a little bit because communication is important no matter what the problem is, and teaching effective communication skills is the counselor's job. But in addition to that, how could someone like StillSearching, as the prime example, ever get at the truth without his wife communicating it and their counselor insisting on it? As it were, it didn't matter to the counselor, as StillSearching discovered. It was their counselor who was avoiding it, so counseling wasn't helpful to him at all regarding it.

That's the pretty high thinking to assume you know what goes on in counseling sessions, that you should control them in any way, and dictate who your wife can see. Honestly, that's the kind of narcissist's disposition that sends people into marriage counseling.


----------



## StarFires

personofinterest said:


> At the risk of getting George Hamilton all riled up, I do think that many of the marriage builders books and materials are good. I would advise against going to the forum.


Yep, I don't really care for the forum either. 
I don't get the George Hamilton reference.


----------

