# Sell or rent?



## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

We can make a tiny profit (<$5000) on the house, short term... Sell now. Or we can build a small nest egg over time. Our mortgage is manageable, and we will be able to rent it out for about $400 profit a month. 

Any nightmare stories about renting? Our house was a rental nightmare, thats how it ended up on the market 4 years ago when we bought it. But is it really that common a thing, to have bad renters? Can you minimize the risk... Background check I know... What else? 

The realtor just left.. just trying to get some thoughts. We're leaning towards renting it, at least trying it for a year. What's the worst that can happen in that year? I don't know.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

The financial experts say unless you have the cash reserves to offset the risk of renting you should sell.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

All the wealthiest people I know got there in large part on rental revenue, but of course it was the inflating housing economy that made it worth it. What is the housing market like there?


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## Jersey86 (Jul 4, 2012)

Renting is big all over because so many in foreclosure. If you have some saving for the nightmares. It happens. 400 a month would be what 4800 a year that is not bad. One nightmare could eat up 4 to 5 x that in a heart beet.


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

I don't know where you are, but where I am, houses have been sitting around for about a year before they're sold. You might as well rent. You have the right to draw up your own contract with the renter and can include regular inspection of the facility and clauses for eviction in case of property destruction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

I have just left property management after 8 years in it. I imagine people are the same in most of the world so if you do decide to rent please detach from the property. It is a building, not a part of you!
Landlords who lived in their property are the worst for thinking that a tenant with just a little bit of stuff on the floor are destroying their house. It would be best to get an agent to manage it at arms length for you and I imagine they do checks on prospective tenants.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Lon said:


> What is the housing market like there?


That's just it. I know we can rent it out for that little profit/monthly. And we know we can sell it and break even at least. But if we can hold on to it for a few, we could make a killing off of it. We put way too much work into it for our neighborhood and for the market, we know that, but it was for the intention of us living in it for life too  Oh well, things change. 

Certainly food for thought, thanks!


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Jersey86 said:


> Renting is big all over because so many in foreclosure. If you have some saving for the nightmares. It happens. 400 a month would be what 4800 a year that is not bad. One nightmare could eat up 4 to 5 x that in a heart beet.


So this is what I've been worried about... and I honestly think the worst thing that can go, and the most expensive, is the HVAC ($3400 is what we've been quoted should it go, but it's only 7 years old). Everything else is pretty solid... No carpet to get damaged, hardwood and tile throughout, all new appliances, new roof, new windows, etc. My H is Mr. Fix It, so should the hardwoods or tile or drywall or whatever get damaged, he can fix it up with a trip back here. Any other major mishap should be covered under insurance (renters and homeowner), I would imagine. Are there other expenses related to renting to someone that I'm not aware of?

Bella - I've already thought of having someone manage it, how much is that, roughly? Oh and I've detached from the property, the opportunity we've been given with this relocation overshadows this particular home


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

In this market, I'd probably rent. I know there is a risk of damage, so a background check is almost necessary. Make the potential renters pay for the background check!

I'd love to sell the house and move on a farm nearby. However, we'd be taking a huge cut in equity. 

Hopefully the housing market will pick up in a few years. We put at least 20% down on our house and right now i bet we wouldn't get 1/2 that back.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

My experience with renting is to use an agent and s*ck up to paying their percentage as they can do the dirty work of being firm when your renters have 'sob stories' that somehow should excuse them from the rental papers they signed, because they are 'nice' and so you should be too. 

You should also consider the amount of time you will have to spend keeping up with paperwork and also maintenance and repairs and then risk of flood, wind storms, etc. 

$5000 is a sure thing if you sell...
If you had $5000 in your pocket RIGHT NOW would you choose to invest in real estate assuming that you could, without any barriers or costs to entering such an investment, or would you choose to invest it elsewhere?


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> You should also consider the amount of time you will have to spend keeping up with paperwork and also maintenance and repairs and then risk of flood, wind storms, etc.
> 
> $5000 is a sure thing if you sell...
> If you had $5000 in your pocket RIGHT NOW would you choose to invest in real estate assuming that you could, without any barriers or costs to entering such an investment, or would you choose to invest it elsewhere?


Our area was hit hard by the worst flood in our city history back in 2010... Our neighbors across the street didn't fare so well.. Our home was untouched. Right up the street, the interstate was under water with buildings floating down it. But I'm not so worried about all that -- Our insurance is $500/deductible for any kind of disaster situation.

To be honest, while we could use the $5000, it would go towards living... Nothing special we would need to use that for. And I think that's why I'm not too excited about that selling, when I know we could get that amount by renting it out for at least a year anyway and should the housing market come back up, our house would easily go for $20K more... In fact, it's fluctuated on Zillow for the past few years by $10K here and there. 

I'm really leaning towards renting with an agent at this point.


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2012)

My $.02 - sell it quickly! I have 2 rental properties, and I'm looking at selling both of them. I hate being a landlord.

Florida 5 acre horse ranch rental - property manager handles everything. Let's just say it's not all that great.
Local duplex rental - we manage it. upstairs unit has great tenant, pays on time. downstairs tenant is on track I think. previous tenants in both units - downstairs moved out without notice, and upstairs we had to evict. upstairs tenant had used it as brothel - neighbors called to tell me people were having sex in driveway.

Bottom line - both of my rentals have turned into a nightmare. I've been late paying the mortgage a couple of times, cause I'm waiting for them to pay me.

On the flip side - friends of ours used their house as a rental. Found a great military family to move in for 2 years with no issues.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Cherry, I deal with large scale rental properties from a gov't oversight perspective. Feel free to PM me if you'd like.

A few things to consider:

How far away are you going to be living from the house that you'll be renting? Will you be able to spot check your renters to make sure that they aren't damaging your property? Read up on the rental laws for your state, and what you can/can't put into a lease. You'll likely want an attorney to review your lease to make sure that you are protected and to make sure that you aren't violating any lease/rental laws.

In terms of prospective renters... credit check, personal references, employment references, and prior landlord references are pretty much a must. You'll also want to know that your prospective tenant can afford to pay the rent that you are asking, typically housing expense of 30% of income is the accepted norm, though it's a guideline in terms of personal rentals. 

I'll hush up now, but like I said, feel free to PM me if you have questions that I might be able to help you with.


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

Cherry said:


> So this is what I've been worried about... and I honestly think the worst thing that can go, and the most expensive, is the HVAC ($3400 is what we've been quoted should it go, but it's only 7 years old). Everything else is pretty solid... No carpet to get damaged, hardwood and tile throughout, all new appliances, new roof, new windows, etc. My H is Mr. Fix It, so should the hardwoods or tile or drywall or whatever get damaged, he can fix it up with a trip back here. Any other major mishap should be covered under insurance (renters and homeowner), I would imagine. Are there other expenses related to renting to someone that I'm not aware of?
> 
> Bella - I've already thought of having someone manage it, how much is that, roughly? Oh and I've detached from the property, the opportunity we've been given with this relocation overshadows this particular home


Sorry Cherry, I am in Australia so I imagine it is different in the US. I know you can negotiate the percentage charged here so you probably can there as well.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

One other thing to think about is that the $400 "profit" a month isn't always profit. You need to have a chunk put away for things like the mortgage for months the house is unoccupied, new appliances/repairs should they break down, cleaning, painting and other general maintenance. Your husband may be able to do the work but materials needed for getting a house rental-ready quickly between tenants can be quite a chunk to spend all at once. Also, I don't know where you live, but you may need to absorb other costs like lawn care, snow removal and general utilities either to ensure that your lawn/trees are killed or to maintain the property from a distance when it's not occupied. The security deposit can help offset things like that, but you can't count on it covering every potential expense. 

You'd be amazed at the stuff people can break....my ex-MIL has rental properties and one time the tenants took off all the doors in all the rooms and closets. No idea why, but they stored them out on the patio by the carport and by the time they moved out the doors were pretty much ruined by heat, snow and knocking around. So not only did she deep clean the place and re-paint, but she had to buy new doors for every interior doorway. Or another time the kitchen counters had to be redone completely because apparently the people cooked A LOT and put the pans directly on the countertop with no hot pad or cutting board or anything. Looked like hollow polka dots all over the place. On the other hand though, she's had several tenants that were great, paid on time, kept up the place. But it seems like when something goes wrong, it goes freakishly wrong. Or maybe those are just the stories that get told, right? 

Rentals can be an excellent investment, but you have to be aware that they aren't pure profit.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

^^^ Definitely food for thought, thanks CO. We will be 8 hours away, which is something for us to consider. For about a year, we'll have family here that can check on the place and we have nosy neighbors... lol... And thank goodness for marble countertops  But the door thing, that's messed up and expensive. We put all new doors in this place when we moved in... hate to see them on the back patio


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Yeah, it was only once in 20-some odd years she has had these places, but isn't it bizarre??

Some people's children, I swear!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

yeah like COGypsy suggests, don't look at the rent revenue at all as profit, it is merely a figure that helps you reduce your cost of ownership of the property. The trade off of all your hard work being a landlord is that you are investing in real estate, not necessarily looking for additional income.


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## Jersey86 (Jul 4, 2012)

Cherry said:


> So this is what I've been worried about... and I honestly think the worst thing that can go, and the most expensive, is the HVAC ($3400 is what we've been quoted should it go, but it's only 7 years old). Everything else is pretty solid... No carpet to get damaged, hardwood and tile throughout, all new appliances, new roof, new windows, etc. My H is Mr. Fix It, so should the hardwoods or tile or drywall or whatever get damaged, he can fix it up with a trip back here. Any other major mishap should be covered under insurance (renters and homeowner), I would imagine. Are there other expenses related to renting to someone that I'm not aware of?
> 
> Bella - I've already thought of having someone manage it, how much is that, roughly? Oh and I've detached from the property, the opportunity we've been given with this relocation overshadows this particular home


I live in TX most of the plumbing is in the foundation. I am situation right now where is the renters did not water the foundation. I just spent 8000 on plumbing repairs and I'm still looking at about 10 to fix the foundation.
Try going after them. They don't own anything, have you heard the expression getting blood from a stone


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Jersey86 said:


> I live in TX most of the plumbing is in the foundation. I am situation right now where is the renters did not water the foundation. I just spent 8000 on plumbing repairs and I'm still looking at about 10 to fix the foundation.
> Try going after them. They don't own anything, have you heard the expression getting blood from a stone


Ouch. This house is a former meth lab, thanks to renters. The owner in 2006 had had to leave quickly for a job transfer, so they did what they did and rented it out... Within 6 months this house was a meth lab and seized by the state for investigation and had to be professionally remediated by an environmental agency, to the tune of $15K. The house dropped a third in value, before the housing crisis we're in today. And subsequently the housing crisis has kept the value down, regardless of the improvements and it getting off the quarantine list . lol

Yeah... Background and reference checks a must... But even then, you just never know.


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

Yeah, I was just at a rental unit this morning doing a quote for repairs & cleaning after the tenants shot through.
They did a real number on it, smashed door frames, timber blind slats snapped, grotty etc.
Thankfully, the majority of tenants are good, it is just that the bad ones stick in our minds.
Most of the time, with a rental, you do well to break even with the costs. You hang onto the property as a long term investment, but be aware that sometimes the revolving door of tenants can cause greater wear & tear on a property so you have to weigh that up as well.


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## Mr.D.E.B.T. (Jul 19, 2012)

IMHO...You have to do your research first. What are the requirements in your state to be a landlord and what type of coverage do you need? I also agree with many posters about the risk versus reward. Unless you have a good sized nest eggs, it will be difficult to offset the unexpected expenses that come with being a landlord.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Keep in mind once you convert to a rental, if you later sell, you will have capital gains profit rather than profit from sale of your primary home. Depending on your tax bracket, it can bite. Unless you think you will be able to move back in and make it your primary home prior to selling. I made enough of a profit on a primary home I rented out for many years, then I sold in March 2005, I had a feeling the market was going to crash and I got out, at a time when I had doubled my money. Even after the income tax in a state that purportedly has no income tax, and Federal capital gains tax I was sitting pretty and treated myself to two years with no working just single-parenting my kids, a 4 year old with a disability and an 11 month old and my teen ager who was starting high school at the time, playing hockey, etc. It was awesome, so that's the upside of the risk, sometimes you get a reward. But it's all about luck, getting a good rental agent who could really stick it to problemmatic tenants was key.


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## Jersey86 (Jul 4, 2012)

Cherry said:


> Ouch. This house is a former meth lab, thanks to renters. The owner in 2006 had had to leave quickly for a job transfer, so they did what they did and rented it out... Within 6 months this house was a meth lab and seized by the state for investigation and had to be professionally remediated by an environmental agency, to the tune of $15K. The house dropped a third in value, before the housing crisis we're in today. And subsequently the housing crisis has kept the value down, regardless of the improvements and it getting off the quarantine list . lol
> 
> Yeah... Background and reference checks a must... But even then, you just never know.


Ouch 
No way you will recouping that


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## Jersey86 (Jul 4, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Keep in mind once you convert to a rental, if you later sell, you will have capital gains profit rather than profit from sale of your primary home. Depending on your tax bracket, it can bite. Unless you think you will be able to move back in and make it your primary home prior to selling. I made enough of a profit on a primary home I rented out for many years, then I sold in March 2005, I had a feeling the market was going to crash and I got out, at a time when I had doubled my money. Even after the income tax in a state that purportedly has no income tax, and Federal capital gains tax I was sitting pretty and treated myself to two years with no working .


very good. I am not a tax account and dont give tax advice But if you did not deprciate the house it would not have been capital Gaines


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Jersey86 said:


> Ouch
> No way you will recouping that


We already did... buying the house $50K below it's appraised value at that time, just before the housing bust. As you can imagine, not too many people were interested in a house freshly off the quarantine list 

I have been reading about what it takes to turn a property into a rental in our state and I've also been considering for sale by owner for more money in our pocket. <--- That might be the less stressful route. Decisions, decisions. I certainly appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Capital gains, if house was bought at 70K and sold at 140K even without depreciation that is a capital gain. Plus many states have a real estate sales tax that must be paid on the total of the sale, makes no difference as to capital gains or not. Even if you lose money there is still that tax, if it exists, on the sales price.


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

Here's 2 questions------would you buy it today to use as a rental property? is it so special/unique and you plan on moving back to it in the near future? no answers= sell it.
27+ years of real estate/property investment experience.
one more thing to consider.....with you being 8 hours away how are you going to feel when you get a 2am call "my toilet is plugged" or when you or a friend visits the property and you hear dogs barking (even if you said no pets) and/or twice as many people move in.
True stories.
If you really want to be a landlord, save up and buy a 3+ unit multi.
Just my thoughts!


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Good questions. Yes, we would buy it today to use as rental, if that's what we did for a living  Yes, it is a special house, my first house in a nice city, but I've detached from it already (due to the benefits of moving). We would move back to it should everything backfire where we are going, highly unlikely though. 

If we get a 2 am call that the toilet is plugged, I will direct them to one of the other 2 toilets in the home until our plumber buddy can get there in the morning  Just made me think of something though... Too bad 2nd isn't on this thread... Hardwood flooring in the bathroom coming back to bite me in the azz... Ugh.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Cherry said:


> Just made me think of something though... Too bad 2nd isn't on this thread...


You need 2nd to tell you how pretty your feet are??? :rofl:


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

StatusQuo said:


> You need 2nd to tell you how pretty your feet are??? :rofl:


Nah, I need him to tell me how bad of an idea it was to put down that bamboo after I reassured him that it was gonna be okay  But if he wants to compliment my feet too, that's awesome!


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Cherry said:


> Nah, I need him to tell me how bad of an idea it was to put down that bamboo after I reassured him that it was gonna be okay  But if he wants to compliment my feet too, that's awesome!


i tried 

dont go by zillow for what you think you can sell for.
after my divorce we tried to sell.
zillow showed a value of $118,000 still.
couldnt even get anyone to look at it for $80,000.
Realtor wanted to relist for $70,000.
thats what i paid to have it built in 1991.
needless to say, me and exw still have it jointly.


oh, and i can do that, but i need to see them first of course


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> i tried
> 
> dont go by zillow for what you think you can sell for.
> after my divorce we tried to sell.
> ...


The Realtor has already told us it'd go in less than a month if we listed it for what Zillow says it's valued for, in fact he says he'd list it $20K over what Zillow says, not to mention the house next door just sold for not much lower than asking price and it's not near as updated as ours. 

So in your case, is someone living in it? Your exw? Or are y'all renting it out?


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Cherry said:


> The Realtor has already told us it'd go in less than a month if we listed it for what Zillow says it's valued for, in fact he says he'd list it $20K over what Zillow says, not to mention the house next door just sold for not much lower than asking price and it's not near as updated as ours.
> 
> So in your case, is someone living in it? Your exw? Or are y'all renting it out?


our divorce decree says we hold the house until at least 2 years after the divorce.

we have our oldest daughter and her herd living there. 

well, good luck to you.
hope you have better luck than we.

why the sudden urge to move after just finishing the upgrades?


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> our divorce decree says we hold the house until at least 2 years after the divorce.
> 
> *we have our oldest daughter and her herd living there*.
> 
> ...


:rofl: cute. 

My hours got cut and we were offered a better deal down there.. plus it's closer to the beach!!

We completed everything we wanted to in that house, well ahead of schedule and for a fraction of the price and yes, now we're going to leave it. At least we had fun doing it  

Thanks 2nd.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Cherry said:


> ^^^ Definitely food for thought, thanks CO. We will be 8 hours away, which is something for us to consider. For about a year, we'll have family here that can check on the place and we have nosy neighbors... lol... And thank goodness for marble countertops  But the door thing, that's messed up and expensive. We put all new doors in this place when we moved in... hate to see them on the back patio


Since you are looking for some examples of people who rented, I'll mention a few. Several of my employees left GM during the bankrupcy, and couldn't sell their homes. They rented, plus bought new homes hours away, close to the new job. My brother also relocated with his company, but without a relo contract offer, so he had to become a landlord when he moved.

The biggest challenge for all of them were the emergency repairs. Like a furnace that would not start during a very cold snap. A hot water heater that broke, air conditioner that began to leak freon.

Between leases, if renters changed, they also had to spend quite a bit of their vacation time in setting up contractors for painting and cleaning, along with repairs before renting again.

The ones who found renters who preferred managing their own maintenance, swapping it for rent, definately had it easier. My brother went through a management agent, and never had to worry about maintenance, but it was pricey. 

My opinion? It seemed to be worth it for the ones who brought in significant monthly rent. Not so much for the ones who didn't yield significant monthly income from it.

My wife and I have relocated four times, and we are starting up the process again. Our relo package guarantees the home sell, but the process has forced us to become better about selecting the most cost-effective upgrades for a future sale. That said, I noticed that you mentioned bamboo flooring. I'n not an expert, but I'm wondering if this might be good for selling, but not so good for renters. If it is softer than hardwood, I'm just wondering how good it will stand up to renters who don't take the same precautions in daily wear as owners?


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

make sure you get atleast one more price opinion/proposal from an agent-------and do not even hint at what you want for it. let them tell you.


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

not that you have to agree----but it will be an honest 2nd opinion.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Halien said:


> Since you are looking for some examples of people who rented, I'll mention a few. Several of my employees left GM during the bankrupcy, and couldn't sell their homes. They rented, plus bought new homes hours away, close to the new job. My brother also relocated with his company, but without a relo contract offer, so he had to become a landlord when he moved.
> 
> The biggest challenge for all of them were the emergency repairs. Like a furnace that would not start during a very cold snap. A hot water heater that broke, air conditioner that began to leak freon.
> 
> ...


All good points. I like the idea of swapping maintenance for rent. Could be good for small maintenance situations. The big stuff should be okay... New roof (5 years old) and new hot water heater this year and the HVAC unit was just serviced, but it could go I know and all the appliances are new (< 4 years old). And yes, the bamboo floor that I just couldn't resist... Not a good rental perk and we might go ahead and replace it with tile if we choose to rent it out, it's only in one of the bathrooms. 

This is such a difficult decision. Our neighborhood could go either way at this point... it's so hard to tell. A part of me just wants to dump it and be done with it. I just don't know and the clock is ticking.

Thank you for your thoughts!


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Why Not Be Happy? said:


> make sure you get atleast one more price opinion/proposal from an agent-------and do not even hint at what you want for it. let them tell you.


The comps are hurting us, that's why I think it'd be better to hold onto it for a little bit at least, to see what way it goes.. But it's worth a try.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

It is a really hard decision. As others said, try to research local laws related to renting. One friend lived in an area where he could be choosy about selecting renters, and he had plenty of people trying to rent it. He was able to rent it very selectively, wanting someone who was real meticulous about checking out the place for cleanliness, and asked outright if he could apply his work credentials to doing maintenance. But I've lived in places where local laws are much more intrusive into the renting process.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Selling. Found out our upfront profit on the sell is more than expected. We got two months.

That said, anyone have any thoughts on for sale by owner vs. realtor? My thoughts are we only have two months and there are a lot of logistics I know nothing about and not sure I can learn in this timeframe with everything else related to the move. If anyone has any experience with for sale by owner I'd like to hear about it.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

There are pros/cons to both options.

Given that you want to sell quickly, I'd probably opt for a realtor. They have the means of marketing to the masses, and your property is more likely to be seen by potential buyers. However, when you go with a realtor, you'll end up paying commission on the sale (typically 6% [3% for your realtor, and 3% for the buyer's agent], though it may be different in your area).

FSBO - you'd save half the commission by representing yourself in the sale. The Buyer's agent would still expect their side of the commission (3%). You'd have to pay for your own marketing, and it may take longer to sell. 

The realtor takes care of the marketing, the showing of your house, and the paperwork side of things. If you're comfortable doing those things, and have the time to put into it, than you could do it yourself. If you'd be more comfortable having someone else take on those tasks, then go with a realtor. In most cases the 3% commission is more than worth it to get the property sold quickly.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

StatusQuo said:


> There are pros/cons to both options.
> 
> Given that you want to sell quickly, I'd probably opt for a realtor. They have the means of marketing to the masses, and your property is more likely to be seen by potential buyers. However, when you go with a realtor, you'll end up paying commission on the sale (typically 6% [3% for your realtor, and 3% for the buyer's agent], though it may be different in your area).
> 
> ...


Thanks, and that's exactly what I was reading about! I think it's worth it to turn it over to a Realtor to get it done with everything else that's going on  He says if we price it aggressively enough, it will go in a few weeks... I'll go with that!


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Good luck!! Keep us posted!!


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

StatusQuo said:


> Good luck!! Keep us posted!!


Where I live they have a company that showcases your house on a website and gives you the paperwork and advice on how to do it. They give you signage all for 250.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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