# Dazed and Confused.. not sure how to move on



## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

Its taken me a while to reach out for help with my situation. I've read many posts on this site over the last few months and thought I should post my issues and hopefully recieve the same attention everyone else does.

Heres a brief rundown:

I am 30 yrs old, been married for almost 4 yrs, together for 7 yrs. We own our home, have a nutty 2 yr old.. pretty normal.

My wife is basically a stay at home mom, taking care of the house and child, and also works out of the house. I work at least 45-50 hrs a week, so I'm gone for most of the day and week.

Over the course of the relationship, my sex drive/libido has diminished, causing the root of our problems. I believe its a combo of the added stress of life (job, marriage, child, $$ issues) and for me, the fact that she really doesnt support my job (video,film and advertising field) because it is not the normal '9-5' job she was hoping her man would have (I frequently get stuck working later, or have to go in on the weekends) therefor there is resentment towards me, which I feel.. and then I don't feel the need to show her the affection she needs.

So because of all of this, and over the last 6 mos, even going back 3 yrs, she has stated that I love my job more then her or our marriage. I will agree I am passionate about my career, because I have the drive to provide for my family, and I will say I do not spend enough time with her as she needs.

All of this pretty much boiled over yesterday, as she told me she had plans to go out with her girlfriend. Turns out she was actually meeting up with an ex-bf of hers (from way back in 8th grade, but I know they were still good friends, even though I've never met him) I found out because she has left open facebook messages, mapquest driving directions.. and I put it together. 

When I brought this up to her, she lied and said she was going to see a different girlfriend, and I said I dont think so, I looked up the address and it was her friend. She didnt know what to say. I was pissed. She said she just needed to get out of the house and get some advice from an old friend. I somewhat trust her, but she LIED about it, hiding this from me. I let her know how much this hurt, and I took off, leaving her at home with our child.

She called and called me, and eventually her guy friend did to (hes married btw) he texted me and insisted nothing is going on, how he loves his wife and he would never disrespect another man.. I ignored it because I was too pissed to deal with.

I went to a friends house for a few hours, had a beer and calmed down. I ended up going back home because I wanted to talk. Once I got home, she grabbed her keys and left anyways.(at 11 at night) according to the phone records, she did call him, probably to see what bar he was at. I went to bed because i was tired.. I woke up at 3 and she wasnt home, I called and she was on her way back home. I checked the text records again, and it looks like she was with him, and/or his friends until almost 3, then there was several texts back and forth between them until she got home.

Now, I'm not sure what to do. I know she is craving attention, and I will give her that. But in her eyes, she didnt do anything wrong, and stated that we're DONE. 

How should I handle this? I am pretty confidant she isnt having a physical affair with this guy, but hiding it from me isnt good either. 

Any tips on how to talk her off the ledge would be great. Sorry for the long post but thats the situation!

And one more not, she has in the past packed up and left me and stayed at her moms (which i think is juvenile) and the last few days she said she wants separate beds.. so I've been on the floor in our office... Help!


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## Boker (Oct 13, 2010)

First off, here are just a few comments I had while reading this:



Lostatsea said:


> ...and I will say I do not spend enough time with her as she needs.


I think you've solved your problem right there.



Lostatsea said:


> ...and I took off, leaving her at home with our child.


Not a good move. Never walk out in the middle of an argument. Talk it out calmly. If you're angry, calm down--but still talk.



Lostatsea said:


> ...and eventually her guy friend did to (hes married btw) he texted me and insisted nothing is going on


Inappropriate of him, but there's nothing you can do about it.

She's feeling ignored. She needs time with you, plain and simple. She needs you to look at her, to listen to her, to touch her, to make her smile and laugh, to engage with her as an intelligent person. No job, no career, no amount of power or money can even come close to a woman's love. It's just not worth it. You can have a job and provide for the family, but never let it get in the way of her and your child. I've always been a little leery of people who talk about their career like it's a sentient being. So just be careful in that regard.

As to your present situation, I'd suggest not walking out on her again, even if she's getting angry. I believe going to her friend may have been her way of finding a sympathetic ear, maybe even some advice--very similar to what you're doing here on TAM. 

You should find/make an opportunity to talk to her, and the sooner the better. Start off with an apology for walking out on her, any yelling you may have done, and harsh comments you may have made. Use a soft voice and be calm. Don't be sarcastic, don't insinuate anything with your tone of voice, choice of words or body language.

When you talk to her, don't let what she says get you angry. I'm going to say that again: don't get angry. You need to give her an opportunity to express herself to you. She's going to say things you don't want to hear. She's going to say things that may sound like accusations. She's going to say things that may hurt. You need to give her the opportunity to vent her frustrations. No doubt they've been bottled up for a long time. It'll be nearly unbearable at first, but you have to keep calm and quiet and let her get it out. Some of the stuff she'll say at this point may even be exaggerated, maybe even a little nasty. At this initial point don't defend yourself or your actions and don't accuse her of anything as this will only break the process.

Make sure you understand what she is saying. You're not there to defend yourself, you're there to understand how she feels and why. Tell her you understand. Tell her you understand her feelings and why she feels the way she does. Women love to hear the words "I love you", but their second-favorite thing to hear is "I understand", followed by "You're a great woman".

You may not want to reply right away when she's finished expressing herself. Most likely she'll be exhausted. Do something nice for her. Make a cup of tea/coffee, make lunch, go get dinner, something. Do something directly useful to her.

I would be hesitant to bring up her actions with the male friend for a day or two, maybe even a couple. She'll figure it out on her own that what she did was wrong, even if she isn't admitting it right now. Don't press the issue right away, there will be plenty of time later to _calmly_ discuss both of your actions. What there isn't time for is to let your present situation drag out any longer, so fix that now. When you do discuss her actions, don't be forceful and insist on your own interpretation.

Keep calm. Don't get angry. Tell her your sorry. Listen to her and don't interrupt. Don't get angry. Keep calm.


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## lovelieswithin (Apr 29, 2010)

So sorry for your situation but first of all your wife is being selfish and I don't think it's fair she puts you into the azz kissing position. With that said - I understand why you want this to work regardless: you love her! 
Now- what efforts have you made when you do have time available for her? did you ignore her cries for attention and practice avoidance? 
Somewhere along the line she forgot that its a luxury to be a stay at home wife (never had that myself!) but isn't reason enough to be denied attention/affection. She lost appreciation and respect for you because of the lacking. I've told my husband tons of times: you can tell me you love me and care but it doesn't replace the level of love & connection a woman feels from affection and desire. 
Honestly - I doubt she wants to hang out with this ex guy. Shes doing it out of necessity and despair because she doesn't know how else to fulfil her need for attention right now. 
Try acknowledging her sadness and lonliness without immediately following up with a defense comment like "Im sorry you've been neglected intimately but I have to work" all that your wife will cling to is the painful reminder that your work is the culprit & she will become immediately agitated. Express your care and remorse for her pain and talk about how you've spent a lot of time thinking about her & ask for forgiveness for not making more effort sooner to work as a team. Let her outpour on you and listen well but try not to get defensive. Let her feel your own pain by talking about how you feel when you're called away to work and the pressures of trying to balance home & work life. Tell her you think with her help that maybe you two could find a way to balance it all out. 
Gotta drop the resentment bags and talk about your abilities to forgive in hopes of rekinding your love again. 
Also- sounds corny but ask her if you can hold her - the gesture might break the wall shes got up and I am sure she needs affection right now. 
Again - she has to understand that you work to provide not to neglect. Talk about how you can make the most of your little time together. It doesn't matter how much you're home as much as how you manage to let her know through small gestures that you're always there for her and look forward to the little time you do have. 
Good luck! went through similar thing with my husband and his old job but I broke down when he broke down and expressed how much it bothered him to be in the situation. We both just needed help & understanding from one another and now make the most of our dates and little texts through our work days. =)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

Thank you for reading and posting truly greatful advice. We did manage to move past that.. and all has been great, but things have turned for the worse.

We talked about a lot of things, and the biggest issue between us is my affection towards her. I do spend time wither her, and go out of my way to do nice things for her. I've managed to get a hold on my work schedule and come home at a decent hour to spend time with her and our son.

But it seems my decreased libido has struck a negative cord again. 

Things have been better, and we have been somewhat trying to have a 2nd child.. but then I went to pay our cell phone bill and noticed she had a texting marathon with that previous ex bf/friend of hers, over 90 texts during the course of a day.

I will ad that after the initial issue with her lieing and going out with him, there has been little to no contact with him, so this struck me as very odd.

And even knowing that they went back and forth all day texting, I still came home (45min drive) to the rescue yesterday, as she got her car stuck in the snow at the end of the driveway (she was pissed, pretty much claiming it was my fault for not shoveling well, although I did, she just backed out at a funny angle and managed to get stuck ) and dug her car out.

I finally brought up the fact that I know she and him had a texting marathon, she somewhat denied but I could tell she was a bit pissed that I caught it. After a small discussion about how I was a bit pissed, she was trying to kiss me a bit, her way of smoothing it over.. i wasnt having it. Although I did kiss back, she grabbed her pillow and blanket and was off to the couch.

Fast forward to coming home today, and she was leaving to hang out with her girlfriend, and she left me a letter pretty much stating that I need to leave, that the amount of neglect she has faced has left her empty. She said that she tried to accept the fact that I dont have the crazy sex drive that she needs, but in the end it is either a divorce, or that I move out.. and we go from there.

I am writing this from an air mattress in the basement, totally clueless has to what to do. My initial response was total anger, mainly at myself, and to be honest, thoughts of suicide came in.. But my sons face ended that thought quickly.. and now all i know is that I have failed as a husband, and I am lost at sea once again.

Do i spend some time at a friends house to give her room? I do plan on calling the therapist I/we used to see and schedule an appt.. but it may be too little too late. I want to seek help for my lack of libido as well, but I dont know where to turn.. any suggestions? :scratchhead:


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## naturalist (Feb 10, 2011)

She may be feeling like you've been pushing her away. If her heart and emotions have been open, and she's been reaching out to you to share and exchange emotions, intimacy--herself essentially, then not getting that in return can seem like rejection. After enough moments of rejection, she may be asking 'why am I pursuing having an intimate emotional relationship with someone who doesn't want it.' So, to her, it may seem like you're the one shutting her out, although its been a long process of accumulation.

Don't dwell on the old bf or the texts or the lies even. People do things they wouldn't normally under great stress and it seems like she had the best intentions to find relief and advice for herself.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Wow its been awhile since you last posted. I think I just read my marraige through your 1st post.

Do not give her room 13 years ago I gave her room it was the worst misstake. See when you take your career over your marraige you start to think she diserves a break. and you dont want to be so controlling so you let her.

Well 20 lovers later I decide I had enough girls night outs. I had enough of the morning show ups, it got so bad I had enough of the midnight booty calls "I had to help a girl friend out".
There is nothing worse then waking up in the middle of the night when you know you went to bed together but she is gone.

Stop tolorating this, come on just b/c we were bad H.. we now have to share our wifes..... B*ll sh*t. get you respect back, enough is enough.

You can not control her but you can control what you will tolorate. stop being a doormat and your wife will start respecting you. Start reading up on how to repair this marriage 

The first thing I did was get the hard evidence of her cheating that gave me the leverage from being a neglectful husband to a betrayed spouse. Get it in black in white.
Then once you got her back peddling you can start to find out how much she want to work on the marrage.

Sex is what holds this together, the thing is its hard to make love to someone who treats you like sh*t. 

I'm sorry I'm all over the place and my spelling and sentences are crazy, your story is hitting so close to home, 13 years ago and all the thing we did wrong. The things I see the both of you doing right now. Let me settle down and I'll get back to you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Do it.

Read all the links.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

LAS, Im alittle calmer.
Stay in you bed to not leave, Let her know that you want to work on the marriage and that your family is important. 
She will want you to leave but reinforce that you want to work on the marraige and that this is you maritail bed. You have provided for her and your kid and that you acnkolodge that you have been neglectful but you have always been faithful in your vows.. you will not sleep any were else but in bed with my wife that I took vow with and for better or for worse you will be there for her. This is your maritail bed and you want to share it with the women I love, this is nonegotionable. If she still refuses let her know that if she feels differantly and does not want to work on the marriage then it is her discision to leave the marital bed and sleep some were else.

Her double talk has got you second quessing your self. Show some confidence, stay calm do not show anger or the cops will have you out and the other man will be in your bed by this time tonight.

Do not let her push you button, calmly tell her what I just said and go to bed on a nice soft mattress. Dont forget to tell her you love her and you want this marraige to work.

For now that will be your 1st boundry=sleeping in your marital bed, you have done noth wrong.

What your wife is doing is called gaslighting I think.

Stop letting her turn things around on you. Shes having an affair.


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks again for the responses.. and looks like I have some reading to do!

The hardest part of all of this is that I'm not sure how to open up the conversation, because if I say 'give me one more chance, I want this to work' she wont want to hear it. We've gone there before, where I am a lot more affectionate, byt for her, affection and attention is pure SEX.. plain and simple. But now if we dont have sex every other day, she gets pissed and labels me 'less of a man' and that I need to put out or leave. 

We've had this issue several times in the past, but to be honest, a part of me wants to say suck it up, EVERYTHING cant be perfect. We've known friends of ours that have been through worse, and they're still together (cheating, drug and alcohol abuse, in fact one of her friends husbands even broke his wifes arm in an arguement, and they're STILL together) meanwhile, I guess I have played the nice guy 'provider' role.. I've done everything: held a job, I dont spend anything excessively for myself, I come home everyday to her and our home. I've busted my tail to keep our house together, enough so she can stay at home, and work on her own business (cutting hair from the home) its not like I make a lot, but enough to make ends meet.

Interesting thing to note is the fact that she WANTED to work from home, she WANTS to raise our child and not rely on day care, yet she complains that being at home is making her crazy, i labeled it desperate housewife syndrome.. so add a little bit of neglect, and plenty of time for her to stir it over , and BOOM, you have my wife, who basically regrets our relationship, even though she pushed and pursued me, moved in with me, talked about engagement, marriage, house and a baby before me.. now she realizes that she tried to change me to her ideal man,(her words) and since she doesn't like the outcome, we've come to the crossroads.. and all the while I've gone along with it, being the same guy I was 7 years ago that attracted her in the first place.

Shes convinced there is some reason why my libido and drive has dropped, and yet I've told her over the years there isnt one issue, that sometimes its stress, or that I'm tired.. She has accused me of being gay as well.. and the funny thing is she found some porn links on the computer and got PISSED.. I said at least it proves I'm not gay.. I have seeked medical help. My T levels are a bit low, and I did try some topical gels which helped a bit, but the costs were too high to maintain.

So how do I man up, yet convince her that I'm here to stay? I want this to work, and cannot face the fact of losing her or our family.

And on the note of leaving, do I really hold my ground and stay in our bed? Or in the least in our house but in a different room for awhile? I can see why I would (basically because legally she cant kick me out of my own house, and that she needs to see that I'm no puppy dog that will roll over) but I dont want to add to the hostility that is already in our home either.. time apart may be good... but yet I want to prove to her for REAL, that I am HER man, and she doesn't need anyone else to fill her emotional needs.. as well as physical.

I did read that if she really wants time apart, then SHE should be the one to leave.. which she has in passed.. running away to her parents house, which I think is a bit juvenile. But I dont want her to leave either..

[email protected]*K, I cant stand it!!:cussing:


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

I had a few more thoughts/questions.

After reading more and more in this site, I want to know how do I spread some of this knowledge to her?

One of them being not leaving during an arguement, or abandoning the house.. She did that yesterday.. She wrote me the 'i've tried everything and now you need to leave' letter.. then said she was going out.

wait a minute... i've read on here that thats the last thing to do, and she did it!

also, would it be a good idea to get a 3rd party involved in this? She has reached out to several people, be it that old guy friend of hers, or girlfriends and probably her mom, but I have NO ONE to reach out to.. but I also want someone involved that may be able to shed light on her behavior, because i'm sure with her circle of friends they've all said 'leave him, f him! you can do better' but they haven't heard anything from me. She cant see that shes not completely innocent. She even called me a winey ***** over nothing.. I never call her that, I respect her. And 2 days ago she told me to go **** myself.. because I blocked that dudes phone number that she was texting.. looking back maybe I shouldnt have, but I had to make a statement somehow.

I almost left last night with our son to go over to her parents, but I decided against it.. But she has no problem getting advice from others.. part of me thinks that if I talked to her parents (whom I have a good relationship with) they may be able to give a neutral perspective on the situation (or at least one that says stay with him, hes a good guy)

good idea or not? we did do therapy for a bit.. most of it was focused on the therapist helping her to understand my issues.. which surfaced as having ADHD.. which is known to complicate sex.. it was as if she didnt believe it.. she WANTS to believe i'm not attracted to her, not that I actually have a medical condition.. One of the last sessions the she went to solo she mentioned that the doc said I may have a sex phobia.. not sure what kind as I didnt go back because we were doing better.. I already called the doc to get a new appt because I need to fix this!

thank you all for this! sorry for the long responses/explanations, but I haven't clued anyone in on any of this... this site is one of the only support groups I have!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

LAS,
You can't control the way she communicates, but you can control your self in how you speak, you have the choice to either act hostile or be calm and collected. You can control how you have a conversation and the tone you use when talking. So by making a discision to stay calm and not raising your voice you have manned up and made an effort to be in control in how you talk to others no matter how much they push your buttons. So you have manned up in not yelling at your wife when she goes off/acts hostile.
She has the same choice, but it sound like she has decided to get mad and start in with maybe some name calling and some yelling. She has made the choice in getting angry and hostile...she sound imature. You can't control that, but again you can control how you respond to her tone and the remarks she makes towards you.

She has ran off a number of times instead of facing the issue. You can't control her actions, but you can control yours and the way you hold your self together. You can stamb around and slam doors, or you can man up and sit down and control how want to stay calm, take a step out side to cool off or calmly sit at the table.

In my opinion you have the same choice in what you will tolorate, if and eployee is contineously late you can except his excuss or sent him home for the day. Granted you will be short handed but if you tolorate that employees tardies he will continue to be late. So you man up and reppremand the employee and sacrifice the lack of man power for the day.

So when wife goes out and comes home the next morning "with girl friends" you have boundries and that you will not tolorate her actions. You can sacrifice losing you wife by packing her things up and driving them over to her parents home. Or you can except that behavior and she will continue to act out.
Remember you are not controlling her you are controlling what you will tolorate. You are so concerned about being "short handed you are letting her come in late" 

Face it we were both bad husbands, the point is we WERE, but not any more. My wife continues to throw thing in my face with regards to the past. I man up and control how I respond to her comments. In a calm and rational way. I'm not the smartest man but I do know what love is. Some times I need to walk away until I can figure out what the best response is to her irrational remark.

Even as bad of husband as we were do we diserve to except our wives going out all night with "the girl friend" ? Are we going to tolorate that behavior just so we don't loose our wifes? 

I did for years and once she lost all respect for me she just started leaving after I went to bed, she came and went as she pleased. See, I didn't want to loose my wife so I tolorated it. Well 12 month ago I manned up and confronted her I controlled what I was going to say and I controled how I was going to say it, it was her discision on how she was going to respond. 

She could have left for the OM but that was the chance I had to take or I could have kept my mouth shut and continued sharing my wife.

Back to your point, you are afraid of losing her, she knows that, see what happens when she see that you are not affriad of loosing her and that you are confident in being a better man with or with out her. 
This may push her away further...yes but doing nothing is not bring her any closer either.
I think right now she is in the fog and talk is cheap. You have to show her by controling your time so that with time management you will be able to spend more time with the kids, taking them out, playing, just talking with them.

Clean your self up a bit, excirses, some body wash or cologne. throw on some clean clothes right of way instead of waiting.

The point I'm trying to make is work on your self be better then you were yesterday and keep doing it for you and your kids, it is up to her to notice and deside to come along.


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks man,

The biggest issue with my lady is that she cant see the fault in her own actions.. so although you and I know that running off to mommys isnt a grand idea, she sees it as an escape. And in the past when we've had conversions or even arguements she tends to tighten up and not say anything, which usually leads to an email from her to me, or a letter.

I just texted her saying yes I realize I havent always held up my half of the relationship, but facing the thought of TRULY losing our relationship frightens me to the core.. I wont go into more details to keep this short, but she responded with 'Thank you for saying that but I cant go back on what i said this time. I cant handle another temporary fix and I just dont believe you can change this.'

So for now I should stand strong, and try and let her know that I may be better off without her as well? reverse psychology if you will? I will say that part of me does agree with that.. But I cant see myself losing our son.. losing our house.. moving into an apt and seeing him only on the weekends. I've worked so hard to get where I'm at, and although I'm only 30, I dont want to start over.

What I dont understand is the fact that she cant comprehend that I may have an issue preventing me from being a sex crazed manimal she needs.. some people are the way they are.. what if i had an accident, leaving me unable to perform.. would she leave?

I've had to put up with and dance around her anger issues, but she cant handle me having issues.. i view that as NOT FAIR at all..

So the question is do I stay at home? Do I leave for a bit to think things over, perhaps present it in a way that maybe I need to figure out what I want to do, not give in to her and follow her instructions. 

What steps can I take to start to warm her heart again?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I strongly and I mean strongly suggest you stay!

The last thing you want...if she goes side ways on you and a divorce happens she will nail you with ABANDONMENT!

The second thing that is just a little better then that is the other man moves in to your home.

At best, if you leave ..... there is no at best. 

Please stay in your home, you already see that she is look at OM and it will be a few days before his visits become over nighters.

She want space to figure things out, well let her get a taste of the world with out lostatsea. She can have the taste of living in an apartment, paying the utilities, and fending for her self. 

The reality is a divorce will banckrupt you and it will be a matter of time before she feels the effects. So she my as well feel the effect sooner then later.

Bottom line she is given up on the vows she took and breaking the contract that you both signed. So she should be the one to leave the marital home. As long as you take the stance that you want the marriage and she doesn't then she leaves.

She is so in the fog right now, all she sees is how bad it was and is and she has rewritten history so that when she is talking to her boyfriend it doesn't feel so bad for her, in her mind she has less guilt when she believes the marriage is over.

She is blaming you and in her mind she see you as being in the wrong and if you leave that will only validate her actions by letting her boyfriend out in the open. Letting the world know the my H left me and I would like to introduce my new man friend.

See if you stay she has to continue with this hidding and sneaking around thing, you know the :girl night out" .
It just won't look good if you are still around and she also has a boy friend. 

She will continue to fight you as long as she has another man that she is connected with. If you move out the connection will get stronger, hell they may even break up ands she will want you back, but man that could be f*cking month before that occurrs. 

Dude she wants you gone for all the wrong reason, so please stay.

You cant warm her up, remember stop tring to control her feelings. What you can do is warm your self up, be the better father, be the better man with clean teeth and fresh smelling hair, an attitude that lets people know that hey this guys is going to make it. 
Let her stomp her feet and let her call you names, she can yell all she wants, but now that you have manned up you can let her negitive energy rool off your back b/c she has decided to act that way, were you you have changed and you will be a better father, providing for his kids both emetionally and spending time with them. You can control your anger and how you deal with her.

Let your wife choose to be the angry person she wants to be, you on the other hand know that what you are doing is rightous and positive in protecting your family.

If you leave the protection leaves.

Sooner or later your wife will make the discision to either stay and work through this or leave the family and the marraige. That is her choice. Your choice is to stay and protect the family, your choice is to keep the promise and the vows you made. Even if your wife doesn't..no one in the world can say you bailed, you left, you didn't try......no one!


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

Well I'm not truly concerned about the other guy.. a little yes, but he is married, (i know that doesnt mean much) and I don't see him dumping is W and going after mine.. theres always that chance, but i doubt it. Plus I hear he doenst have his license, so driving over our house isnt going to happen.. I will say I stepped over a boundary and contacted his wife to clue her in on to what is going. My thought was that if this guy feels its ok to interfere with my marriage, then its only fair that his wife knows whats going on as well...

So when I hold my ground and tell her im not leaving, and that if she wants out, or needs some time apart SHE needs to leave.. what happens when she does leave? Do I go running back over there and rescue her, or let her chill for a bit?

Actually, thinking about it, I dont think she would. She baby sits our niece twice a week, so with her going to her parents house would be letting the cat out of the bag.. and im sure she only wants to paint ME the bad guy, because if I leave i'm admitting guilt.. but if she leaves its as if she is admitting guilt, and wants out. 

But If she leaves, shes taking our son with her, no doubt about that.. which leaves me at home alone, which is virtually the same as leaving, but at least I didnt leave our home.

I'll have to ask her later why she wants me gone.. and I wonder what she'll do when I say I'm not, I dont have to leave the COPS cant even make me leave, as I dont pose a threat to anyone. I want this to work

The one thing that I dont get is to her, our issue is SO MAGNIFIED.. she cant take life in strides, it is DAY BY DAY.. one day is good, and if the next day is bad then her whole LIFE is bad.. I've mentioned to her that plenty of couples have issues, and ours is very similar, but she doesnt want to hear it.. in her mind, somewhere out there is the perfect mate she is looking for, which is basically a copy of her brothers or father (more manly, handy guy.. hell she likes my facial hair very similar to her brothers.. almost creepy)

she even takes advice and listens to everyone else BUT me.. its like I've screwed up soo bad that nothing I say has weight..

thanks again, this helps a lot.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Call it tough love, expect her to leave, figure on her leaving. You can't control that, but make sure she knows that when she wants to rebuild the marraige and take the steps to repair the relationship you will be there. 
This is still her home and and you will be there when she is ready to recommit to the marraige. 

As a superviser, when an employee is late all the time I will send him home for the day. I sucks b/c I'm now short man power, but if I let him work that day the employee will continue to be late day in and day out. I need the employee he's a great worker, but always late. So I have to sacrifice loosing my man power for the day so he understands that I will not tolorate him being late.

I hope you get my meaning?

Remember she is rewriting history so that she doesn't look bad or feel guilty for her actions. 

Granted some times we just have to let it go and she may not want the marraige and can not make her love you.

I had to fire the employee, he didn't learn from that day off with out pay that I gave him. He came back looking for work a few month later but his position was filled. He was, I mean was a better worker but some times you can only tolorate so much from someone.


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

Yes I get your drift.. after so many warnings and chances, sometimes it just has to end.. hopefully im not there yet.

I just talked briefly, and she asked me where I was going. I said I am not leaving, I will not abandon my family. She simply said we're going to live together during a divorce? 

We then got into a discussion where she stated that the reason I am not real intimate enough with her is that I'm either gay, or just not attracted to her.

How can she think so simply? I said its defenitalty not the gay thing, that it can be several things. I then tried to tell her how I know I have been neglectful, but I know that I can make it right.

She got up said it doesnt matter because we're done. We put our son to bed, and now shes in the basement cleaning or something..

wow, my stomach hurts.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

yes it does but its normal, she wants her way, she doesn't know it but you have support here and her cuts and snide remarks are now expected, and you are better off ....your perpared for them.
No reaction, no hostile remarks, a stong and confident guy that can take it, you take for the sake that you are working towards an end to a means.
you have controled your anger and you are also hurting, she knows that and continues to dig the knife in hoping you will weaken and leave so she can have her way.
Little does she know that you are protecting her family and we can only hope that one day she will see that and not some fantisy she has in her mind in what life could be like.


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks to you I have been keeping my calm. Although when I have tried to talk to her, she says that it doesnt matter what I say.. that shes tired of trying.

Its an eerie feeling.. she just went upstairs to bed, and to watch some tv.. I want to go up there and be with her, but I feel that its a waste of energy at the moment. Part of me feels that even though she says she is done, part of her wants me to go upstairs and talk to her. I think I may let her be though.

But right before she went upstairs I was helping her setup an account on FB for her home business, and she was still snapping at me to click this, click that.. meanwhile I kept cool.. shes still hostile.

Also, when I got home and went up on the pc, her email was open and i saw an email she wrote to her mom that said 'Thank you very much. (in response to an Ecard which said move forward and forget the past, you need to be free of guilt and pain....)he sent me a text today and even though it was a text it was very heart felt. He said some things that I have never heard from him before. I'm very confused now.'

at least she acknowledged that it was heartfelt.. of course her mom responded with the way i thought she would, basically saying that i have a 'secret', and that she needs to stand her ground and mean what she says.. i thought maybe she would give some words of encouragement, like 'there are always tough times, stick with him, give him some room hes a great father....' but NOPE.. in a nutshell she is being her mother, but yet empowering my W to leave my ass.

I've been nothing but wonderful to my wife and her family (accept for my libido issues) and WHY THE HELL CANT THEY REALIZE THAT IT MAY BE A MEDICAL CONDITION.. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE THAT IM GAY OR THAT IM CHEATING? 

am I surrounded by shortsided morons? are all women this crazy? My wife did say that almost all of the women she talked to said that I am defiantly gay.. there isnt a gay frickin bone in my body!

I am going to pursue medical help.. i need to get a grip on this and show her again that I am going to make a difference.


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## Isabelle (Feb 11, 2011)

First I want to say my heart goes out to you. You have been through so much and you still want to try to salvage this marriage and I commend you for that. It is truly admirable. I personally have to remind myself everyday that all everyone wants is to be loved, they want to receive it and they want to give it back. There is nothing more important than that in life. It sounds so simple and idealistic, but when it really comes down to it, that is all we really have. Losing loved ones makes that really clear and sets all things in perspective. We as humans complicate things so much and hurt does a real number on our judgment and clouds our perspective. That hurt and fear can convince you of unthinkable things and have you behaving like someone you would not even recognize in the mirror. Your wife sounds like she has let that hurt cloud the love she has for you and your life together. Words and promises tend to come up empty in life and we put our guard up to them. Sometimes wanting to run away feels like a real escape from the pain we don’t want to face. Actions speak a lot louder than words. Telling her you how you feel is great, but showing her through your actions sends powerful meaning. Tell her you want to show her how things can be different for both of you and your son then tell her how you want to do this together... then show it through action, even if she doesn’t join you at first... she may follow your lead when she sees that your intentions are real. When my own marriage feels weakened by life’s pressures I let my mind wander back to that euphoric time when we first fell for each other, those memories remind me of why I wanted to be with this person in the first place.... Think of those times and let her know why you fell in love with her and why you still want to love her now even after everything has happened. Making someone feel truly important, needed, special and loved is your greatest chances to receive that in return. I am a big believer that all things happen for a reason. You can only try your best and if she doesn’t reciprocate your efforts then know life maybe has another plan for you. Be patient and have forgiveness for yourself. You sound like a kind man who only wants the best for his family. Be well ~ Isabelle


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

Thank you, Isabelle.

Yes I agree that it is true human nature to want to be with someone else, and give and receive love. For some that amount of love varies.. I've read on here about couples that go years without sex, only crossing paths in the bathroom. I've also read about open marriages, swinging, etc. truly interesting to see the differences in peoples emotions.

I have realized that I have neglected her, but perhaps I am clouded into thinking 'it really isnt that bad, why is she so upset?' 

its not like I dont come home, and I'm out with the guys.. I'm home everyday.. but she needs more then the once a week romp and watching a tv show together in the evening.. but some of the time its how she treats me that turns me off.. i think over the years of her harboring this hatred towards me has caused her to become snappy and cold to me.. and most of that comes out over the smallest of issues.. like not pushing the grocery cart fast enough, or being 10 min late at home, etc.. 

so when she snaps, I think to myself, if she really loves me, how can she treat me like this? I dont snap at her.. I dont tell her to F$*K off like she does me.. she has even called me 'less then a man' because of my lack of sex drive.. how can I turn all the off and be affectionate?

This morning she told me that I am disrespecting her by not moving out, or at least leaving.. I was very calm yet assertive, and I said this is our home, nothing can make me leave. If you want out of this marriage, then you leave. I will not abandon this family.

She just went on about how hard this will be, living together through a divorce.. and she insisted again that I have to be gay, and that I'll never admit to that because i was raised a certain way.. its VERY frustrating hearing this.. so shallow. I did mention to her that if we go through with this, we will be broke.. no money.. nothing.. Our house (like everyone else) is upside down.. we have a few grand in the account, and I own my truck.. that is all we have. and I said you really want to live in your parents basement? (she works from our house as a hair dresser, and all of her clients are in our sub.. so if she moves, she will have 0 income)

she said its worth it for her to start over, and not to live on a life of unfulfillment.. and going out from our marriage to have random sex because I'm not giving it up enough..

So hard going through this, but I have made strides to SHOW her I am trying to improve myself.

I went out today and picked up Ginseng and L-Arginine as a start to help me get revved up again.(natural supplements that have been known to get the blood goin) I also called my doctor and had him write a script again for an MRI (he wrote me one almost a year ago and I never got it, wants to make sure nothing is wrong in my brain, as I tested low for testosterone) and i tried to have him right me a script for a testosterone topical gel, but he wants to wait for the MRI results. 

progress I guess.. but its a hard sell.. she has pretty much made her mind..

QUESTION.. the last 2 nights I have slept apart from her, but I feel i need to show her I want her.. do I let her come to me, or should I try to massage her, or rub her feet, etc.. ?

thank you!


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## Isabelle (Feb 11, 2011)

You are in such a hard situation. She sounds so angry and bitter and wont even bend a little to compromise and try to make a go of it. All you can do is try your best. The hardest lesson I ever learned in relationships, intimate, friendships, or workplace is that I can only control my behavior... I cant control what someone else does and I am not a mind reader. You sound like you are doing a great job at keeping your cool and with some of those comments not many people could. You can only take so much abuse from someone. You should not have to leave your home or your bed just because someone is upset with you and you have not done anything wrong.

The only thing that comes to my mind about her gay comments is that if a married woman thought her husband was gay (when he really isnt) would that maybe be because her ego has taken it very personally when her husbands sex drive has reduced...as if she was viewed as undesirable so if he didnt want her then he must be gay? I could see how those comments are a major turn off to you! If you flat out told her that you were not being forced out of your house and marriage and then asked her... "Are you willing to even try to repair and salvage this relationship for the sake of the family you built together?" what do you think she would say? Because if she wont even try what else can you do? 

About your question, not sure because every woman can want something different in this case... first do you think she would come to you after a period of time? And would she let you give her a massage being so mad right now? This sounds harsh so forgive me... not that she deserves this pampering with her behavior towards you... BUT Do you think she would go away with you for a weekend to a nice hotel? Maybe a romantic dinner, couples massages etc. that might let her guard down long enough to feel like she can let you in a little to show her you still want her. 

Lastly please know there are so many woman out there that would kill to have their husbands care as much as you are about saving their relationship... hang in there.


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## Lostatsea (Oct 17, 2010)

I am really focusing on controlling just my actions.. and trying not to control hers or point out what she has done. Her guard is up and she as made it clear that she does love me, and that she is sorry for pushing me into marriage..

which is an interesting point.. I have mentioned how in the past she made the majority of the big moves: wanting to move in together, the L word, engagement etc.. and she knows that she is faulted in being the driving force in pushing us forward..

well, now its mainly on me to fix it.. Yes I have asked her to give this a try.. and she is holding her ground in saying NO.. I've tried to change but you havent.. she says she has given me the love a wife should, but I havent returned in the matter SHE wants it.

But there is a little progress.. i think she is realizing that she has to improve her own image/body a bit.. she put on a few lbs after our son, lost some of it, but not all.. I have never stated that the reason I have lost my drive is that she needs to trim up, we have only joked about it... it may have added to the issue between us, but I am not that shallow..

She fired up some yoda last night, which she hasnt done in almost 10 mos.. and I did a workout with her... afterwards we watched a little tv (i sat by her) and then she went up to bed.. I quickly followed, and when to OUR bed.. she said calmly 'this is my bed'.. to which I responded 'you are my wife and I love you, I want to be near you..' she was ok.. and somewhat cuddled near me.. and off to sleep..

she let me sleep in today as well.. (she got up with our little one) and when I got up I gave her a hug.. and when I went to let she didnt.. a good thing!

baby steps.. but I'm trying.. and another note.. she left her email open again ( i dont think its on purpose) and I saw another email from her mom to a link about abandonment laws.. how do I handle a mother in law that clearly wants us to split up? As far as I know.. she hasnt tried to give any POSTIVE advice to my wife as to why to stay in the marriage.. do I call the mother in law out? or let mother in law be the mother in law?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ask your self what will be the benifits and the consequences of talking to MIL. In my opinion leave alone b/c cause #1 you will want to maintain this access to the emails, if you bring that out, that avenue will be shut down. #2 You are a different person that is changing for the better, is this something that the old lostatsea would do?

You handled the bed perfectly and it payed off, something tells me that approaching the MIL will be a step back. Keep an eye on the emails for evidence that the changes you are making for your self are being witnesed by your wife.

Make no mistake you are making changes for your self not for her, but it is nice to have some acknowlodgement that it is paying off by your W mentioning the positive things your are doing when she writes to her Mom.
So leave that avenue open, she will be more cautious when signing off on her emails if you approach MIL.


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