# Intro - W's depression/anxiety/hormones...possibly BPD?



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

My 1st post here...I feel like I'm reaching the end of my rope in this marriage. Married nearly 20 years, dated a few years before that, both mid-40's, two kids at home, both under 11 yo. W admits to having severe depression and anxiety, hormone (she had a miscarriage between our two kids) issues, and she thinks she may be in perimenopause. I am not a pro, but I suspect she be may be a HF Borderline (BPD). I have read a lot on it, and a lot fits. BUT...I know that her other conditions may be causing her BPD-like behaviors. She has been a SAHM since we had our first kid. The kids are both in school, but she says she can't go back to work due to her multiple issues. In a nutshell, she is miserable/anxious/depressed, which of course, is not good for her, me or the kids. She refuses any pro help like drugs/therapy. She has actually gone on an AD from time to time, but she either stops when she doesn't think she needs it, or she takes it inconsistently. Her preferred treatment is alcohol. She isn't getting drunk or passing out, but she generally knocks back 2 or more beers + a glass of wine every night. I would like to keep my family together, and I want to be there to support the mother of my children. But, I'm wondering if this is the best environment for my kids. And I'm wondering at one point do you stop propping up and/or enabling someone who refuses to get the help they need?

Little more background on her...she has had two suicides in her family, including her dad when she a little kid. I know that can't be a good thing, and probably shaped her. I reached a point about a year ago in which I thought I had reached my limit, and told her in anger that I had to walk. She threatened suicide, which of course I took seriously. I simply backed off, and I now feel like a hostage in some ways due to this. I have read here and in other sites that I should call 911, which is what I plan to do the next this happens. 

I have never cheated, and I don't THINK she has. She does, however, have weak boundaries when it comes to male "friends." That was what started my wake-up journey 3+ years ago. She was getting too cozy on FB with a married male friend from 20+ years ago. I don't know what all happened (he's 500+ miles away), but I do know that he was coming on to her, and she kept the conversations going. His wife saw something she didn't like at some point, and had the ballz to stomp out all contact. My gut was screaming the whole time this was going, but I didn't know what to do. A month or so after that happened, while on vacation, I picked up her phone and saw a text to her gf - "I don't love H any longer." I was floored, but I said nothing.

I realized that me and/or my marriage were in serious trouble, so I started reading marriage books, and then stumbled on the Nice Guy book. Read it, and then read it again...it was me in many ways. I realized that I had been distant in my marriage for probably 10+ years. I didn't lead in the marriage. I did passive aggressive garbage. I was a freakin "Nice Guy." I went on a mission, devouring books about men, boundaries, relationships, etc. I believe my head is now pulled out of my azz. I think in many ways I have fixed myself. My wife notices the changes. She likes a lot of it, but at the same time, the new me (confidant, outgoing, leading, etc.) makes her even more anxious. I never told her about the Nice Guy book, but I did attempt to share books like 5LL and His Needs, Her Needs with her. She thinks it's all BS, and refused to take part. She has no desire to work on this marriage at all, usually just replying, "I have depression. You need to just deal with it." 

At some point early in my work on me a couple of years ago (after the 1st male friend thing), she asked me if it was okay if she "friended" her HS BF (600+ miles away) on FB. My gut screamed, but I figured she'd do it (or some other form of commo) anyway, so I let it go. I saw a chat between them a few months later. He was coming on to her. She wasn't doing it in return, but she wasn't ending the conversation. She also wrote that I was a "good guy, just not for her." Also saw this beauty - "It's not if, but when I'll divorce him." I confronted her, she claimed she was drunk and didn't mean it. I knew this was BS. I got angry, pouted, made weak threats, etc. I was still in the early stages of working on myself when all of this happened, so again, I didn't know what to do. After thinking about it for a week, I told my wife to cut all contact, or she could pack her shyte. I wrote the ex-bf, and gave him a choice - go no contact today, or he will see what a complete a-hole I can be. He's married with kids, and apparently wants his marriage, so he took the NC option...as far as I know. 

I can think of about 20 more pages of stuff to write, but I'll stop here for now. Give me your brutally honest opinions/feedback. I'm a big boy, and I can take whatever's coming.


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## muttgirl (Mar 23, 2012)

Im glad you are working on your issues. Your w needs to work on hers as well. She said she wasnt interested in working on marriage, fine, but she needs to work on her depression. 1. talk therapy to discuss suicides and her hiding out from life. 2.depressed parents suck==kids dont get the wonderful parent they could have if she would work on digging out from or managing her depression. I think some of my self esteem issues come from family depression.3.alcoholic parents suck==in both these scenarios, the kids know they come in second compared to drinking, or emotional cheating, or constant fighting between parents and they cannot wait to get out of the house and find peace and quiet and people who want to be with them.4. change makes all of us anxious and people unprepared to deal w/the world dont have the tools to make even good change easy. Instead of struggle to make things better, depression makes you want to rot in your little rut even if a little effort would improve things greatly. You are not a prisoner and she is not helpless. Change is good and you need to get help for depression.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

mutt - thanks. What to do though, when your depressed spouse flat-out refuses to get the help they need? I'm thinking my only option is to threaten to file or actually file to get her to do something.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> What to do though, when your depressed spouse flat-out refuses to get the help they need? I'm thinking my only option is to threaten to file or actually file to get her to do something.


You can't make anyone seek help if they don't want it. The only way is for the pain of their life to be worse than the pain of treatment.

I was a depressed/anxiety/hormonal spouse and I sought help for me because my life had become unliveable. My husband refused to enable me so I was on my own. He avoided me as much as humanly possible during those years and I hated it. I wanted him back but he wanted nothing to do with me while in that state.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Mavash - then what? I've done some avoiding, and W tells me she carries resentment about that. After you got the help you needed, did your marriage get better?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Mavash - then what? I've done some avoiding, and W tells me she carries resentment about that. After you got the help you needed, did your marriage get better?


'Some' avoiding won't work. Depressed people are toxic and what you need are some strong boundaries. Her resentment is on her not you. I don't resent my husband for what he did. He was only protecting himself from me. I was quite mean and yes toxic.

It's been a long road but yes my marriage got better after I got the help I needed. This isn't a quick fix but my husband stood by me once he saw I was committed to health. I wanted it for me and for us.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Mavash - I think I can only avoid so much, since we have two kids at home. I try to do my own thing now and then, and/or take the kids away to do something fun. Yes, she is a mean and toxic person, and I exhaust myself between dealing with her + being the buffer between W and the kids. I had a poor understanding of boundaries years ago. I've since read a lot on it, and I believe the changes I've made have helped.

I'm glad that you had the strength to get the help you needed.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

We didn't have kids when I was depressed. My husband was free to stay gone as much as he needed to.

Kids do complicate matters.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Thunder, I agree with you that "other conditions" may be causing your W's BPD-like behaviors. If she were a HF BPDer -- as my exW is -- you would have been seeing such strong traits periodically all through your 20-year marriage, starting right after the infatuation period ended. Because BPD arises from emotional damage occurring in early childhood, the traits typically start showing full bloom in early adolescence. Significantly, they do not disappear for several years and then reappear at the end of your marriage.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

W refuses any form of counseling, so I told her I was going to go to MC myself. She blew up - "You will not go to someone else and talk about me!" I heard her out, and then made the appointment without telling her. Went yesterday for the first time. It was good to simply speak to someone about this...we'll see where this goes.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

My W was just recently diagnosed with Bipolar I after a severe manic episode with severe psychosis. She's gotten stable very quickly, but the problem i now face is that now that she's stable she feels fine and therefore thinks there's nothing wrong with her. So, while she's agreed to take them for now she's trying to get off her meds. Of course who would continue taking meds for very long if they really think they don't need them, so I'm facing trying desperately to convince her she is in fact BP (of which there's is basically no doubt) before she decides to go off the meds. If it was just me, I'd just deal with it. But we have 2 small children who I have to put first. Like you I just went to my own counselor last week.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Reading your post, we could be married to the same person except for the drinking. We're same age, same issues with children, etc. Dealing with a lot of the same stuff. It sucks.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Drover - sorry to hear. I assume by BP, you mean bi-polar vs. Borderline (BPD)? Seems to be a common thing, the meds make them feel "okay" so after a while they see no need to take them. In my case, W self-medicates with beer/wine. 

Tough sitch with the kids at home...I can relate. You HAVE to take care of YOURSELF, or you'll go nuts. You will have to the rock for those kids, and probably, your wife. I feel like I'm the dad of three kids (adding my wife in there) at times. Get regular exercise, do things for you now and then, keep in touch with good friends/family.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> I have never cheated, and I don't THINK she has. She does, however, have weak boundaries when it comes to male "friends." That was what started my wake-up journey 3+ years ago. She was getting too cozy on FB with a married male friend from 20+ years ago. I don't know what all happened (he's 500+ miles away), but I do know that he was coming on to her, and she kept the conversations going. His wife saw something she didn't like at some point, and had the ballz to stomp out all contact. My gut was screaming the whole time this was going, but I didn't know what to do. A month or so after that happened, while on vacation, I picked up her phone and saw a text to her gf - "I don't love H any longer." I was floored, but I said nothing.
> 
> At some point early in my work on me a couple of years ago (after the 1st male friend thing), she asked me if it was okay if she "friended" her HS BF (600+ miles away) on FB. My gut screamed, but I figured she'd do it (or some other form of commo) anyway, so I let it go. I saw a chat between them a few months later. He was coming on to her. She wasn't doing it in return, but she wasn't ending the conversation. She also wrote that I was a "good guy, just not for her." Also saw this beauty - "It's not if, but when I'll divorce him." I confronted her, she claimed she was drunk and didn't mean it. I knew this was BS. I got angry, pouted, made weak threats, etc. I was still in the early stages of working on myself when all of this happened, so again, I didn't know what to do. After thinking about it for a week, I told my wife to cut all contact, or she could pack her shyte. I wrote the ex-bf, and gave him a choice - go no contact today, or he will see what a complete a-hole I can be. He's married with kids, and apparently wants his marriage, so he took the NC option...as far as I know.


Uhhhh, thunder... This is why she's accusing you, dear. She's feeling guilty about these actions, and perhaps other similar actions, and she's projecting by accusing you.  

That's my two cents, relating this back to your other thread.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> Uhhhh, thunder... This is why she's accusing you, dear. She's feeling guilty about these actions, and perhaps other similar actions, and she's projecting by accusing you.
> 
> That's my two cents, relating this back to your other thread.


Yes, I believe you are correct here. Now...what...that's the question, and I know I'm the one who has to answer it.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Yes, I believe you are correct here. Now...what...that's the question, and I know I'm the one who has to answer it.


Yeah, I don't have the answer to that. I'm guessing that confronting her about it would just result in denial, and if these were the only instances (which I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on, since I don't know otherwise) then I would expect that she would be over the guilt of you calling her out on it since it was something that she saw as innocent... Tough call.

Again, I lack answers.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> I'm guessing that confronting her about it would just result in denial...


If you mean confronting her on present (vs. past) cheating, yes, I'm sure she would deny. She is a habitual liar. It should have raised red flags back when we were dating. She'd involve me in elaborate lies to her family and close friends. Just another thing I chose to accept/ignore.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Yeah, I was referring to whatever may be happening in the present. Ack, a habitual liar?


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## riptapart (Jul 11, 2012)

My first post here but I am going through something a bit different. My wife doesn't want me home. We just seperated. The one thing I do not like is WHY DO YOU HAVE TO STOP BEING A NICE GUY.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

riptapart said:


> My first post here but I am going through something a bit different. My wife doesn't want me home. We just seperated. The one thing I do not like is WHY DO YOU HAVE TO STOP BEING A NICE GUY.


First of all, welcome to TAM. You may not find all the answers you're looking for, but you'll find people to listen to you and attempt to help you. 

As for the not being a Nice Guy... I think thunder can answer better than I can, but I believe the logic behind not being a NG is to help you focus on you, and not so much about focusing on making everyone else around you happy.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

riptapart said:


> My first post here but I am going through something a bit different. My wife doesn't want me home. We just seperated. The one thing I do not like is WHY DO YOU HAVE TO STOP BEING A NICE GUY.


Get the _No More Mr. Nice Guy_ book if you want that answer. There are nice guys and then there are Nice Guys. "Nice Guys" as described in the book aren't really nice...it's a facade to hide the hurt little boy inside. The "Nice Guy" facade may attract women to you, but they eventually get tired of your BS. SQ's post above about Nice Guys is accurate.

I'm sorry you're going through this. You may want to start your own thread with more details, and then the experts here can help you out.


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