# Found out my wife is bisexual after 15 years of marriage.



## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

After 15 years of marriage my wife has opened up to me and our oldest daughter about being bisexual. Although she has told me previously she felt attracted to women, it wasn't until she told our oldiest that she was bisexual that I took her serious. The reason she told our oldest (14) was because our daughter was questioning her own sexual preferences and her mother wanted to make sure she let her know the feelings were normal. Specifically being attracted to other women. 

A quick resolution to that talk for you guys, I don't think my daughter is gay or bisexual. She is young and wondering why boys don't ask her out, so I feel she thinks maybe she will only have girls like her, because that is all she socializes with. She will probably grow out of it. For her, feeling attracted to other girls scared her and she didn't want to feel that way. Anyway, too much for one thread on a marriage forum?

Since coming out we have had 3 seperate threesomes with 2 different women. Although my role is limited, with some penetration or oral from the others, I do not complete or orgasm in front of the women. It's something my wife isn't okay with. After they leave, we "reconnect." It's as if the threesome for me is foreplay, I am unsure of what it is for her. She has always been extremely jealous but wanted to be with women so much that she felt have a mutual threesome was better than spending intimate time with another person all by herself. She has urges but doesn't want to push our boundaries and just go out and have lesbian sex. I also do not want her to do this, because for me "wondering" is the worst part. 

The threesomes are stimulating and neat, because its something thats always been in the back of my mind, but I always prided myself in being extremely loyal to my wife. In fact, up until the threesome I bragged I had never even looked at another women, been to a bar or strip club, and have been as loyal as I think a man can be. Now I really don't have that.

Has anyone else went through this type of thing? Should I stop the threesomes or continue on and just enjoy the experiences? For for the record, I have made it clear I am not a cuckold, I do not have any desire to ever add a man to a threesome. For me, this is an absolute boundary and I am not okay with it.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

What exactly is your question?

Do you have concerns about the trajectory of your marriage?


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Wow. You definitely love your wife to let her explore her sexuality like this. While I'm not in your situation, if I was. I don't believe I would be comfortable with it evolving beyond where it is now. Only threesoms, with you present at all times. No emotional ties at all. And I would also require that your sex life apart from the threesomes improve significantly. And don't let her think she is doing you a favor by letting you be with another woman. This was what she wanted, not you (stick to that story). 

What ever you do. Tread lightly. There are a lot of ways this can go wrong and destroy your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> Wow. You definitely love your wife to let her explore her sexuality like this. While I'm not in your situation, if I was. I don't believe I would be comfortable with it evolving beyond where it is now. Only threesoms, with you present at all times. No emotional ties at all. And I would also require that your sex life apart from the threesomes improve significantly. And don't let her think she is doing you a favor by letting you be with another woman. This was what she wanted, not you (stick to that story).
> 
> What ever you do. Tread lightly. There are a lot of ways this can go wrong and destroy your marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's my biggest problem at this point. After it happened, she has suggested I should be grateful (which I am). However, I wasn't the reason it happened.

Deejo, what do you mean?



> In fact, up until the threesome I bragged I had never even looked at another women, been to a bar or strip club, and have been as loyal as I think a man can be. Now I really don't have that.
> 
> Has anyone else went through this type of thing? Should I stop the threesomes or continue on and just enjoy the experiences?


I'd also like to know if anyone else is dealing with finding out your spouses' sexuality isn't what you thought it was prior to marrying them and how it was dealt with. Sorry if my thread wasn't clear?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Coldie, I think you've handled the situation extraordinarily well, and have considered the real limits and boundaries that you can accept. Unless problems arise from the accomodations you've made for your wife, I think it would be fine to continue as you both seem okay with it so far. To end it without _good _reasons could create another set of problems now that she's opened up about her sexuality.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I think your being taken advantage of honestly. She's uncomfortable seeing you orgasm but she has no problem having one with you there so you tell me where the justification is.

Second. She lied to you for 15 years. She should have told you before you got married. How do you think she would handle it if you told her after 15 years that you were Bi?

What I don't understand is where she has the right to have sex with another woman just because she has the urge. 

When I was married and saw a good looking woman and thought about how it would be to have sex with her because I had the urge didn't give me the right to act on it. It's called self control and respect for my wife. Honestly I think your wife is selfish and IMO, if she wants to have threesomes then she should allow you to also be able to have an orgasm. If not then tell her that this stops now and it won't be open for any more discussion. 

It just blows my mind that there are people who think they have the right to feel their entitled because the have urges. IMO. your opening up a can of worms and are heading for trouble.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

"That's my biggest problem at this point. After it happened, she has suggested I should be grateful (which I am). However, I wasn't the reason it happened."

Seriously?


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

6301, she also doesn't orgasm. She has fake orgasms, which we call "mental" orgasms. If she is happy and excited and wants to let the other person know she is enjoying herself, she lets them think she orgasmed. She also does this with me at times during sex, when she can't get off but it feels good to her or she is in that mood. She let's me know what type of orgasm it was afterwards, as to not leave me in the dark. It's hard for her to really achieve an orgasm through penetration, although she has a few times. She also has small less intense ones through penetration, but not like her orgasms with oral sex or a toy (on her clit, not inside her). 

During the first threesome I kissed her and she whispered she was going to "cum for her." I could tell she meant "mentally." 

Usually, oral sex wise, I would be down on her for 30 minutes or longer before she has an orgasm. With a toy, much faster. The room has to be quiet, lights dim, no distractions. With a threesome, that environment isn't possible because the other girl isn't just going to lay there for 30 minutes eating her out (at least not in our experience).


What she enjoys is giving oral to women and kissing them. She loves to make them orgasm, even if they are also "mentally" having their own orgasms. That's what attracts her to women. I know that may sound unusual, but she also enjoys giving me oral sex and her biggest fantasy was to give me oral sex with another woman. I don't think a woman can be a "cuckold", especialy since she is extremely jealous but we are all wired different and a bit unique. This is what she enjoys.

If you read this comment, does any of this new information change your opinion at all? Thanks.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Sounds a little more fair now. But still no way of knowing for sure that she is faking an orgasm or not. 

I'm going to send you a PM with a link that might help you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

RClawson said:


> "That's my biggest problem at this point. After it happened, she has suggested I should be grateful (which I am). However, I wasn't the reason it happened."
> 
> Seriously?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

RClawson said:


> "That's my biggest problem at this point. After it happened, she has suggested I should be grateful (which I am). However, I wasn't the reason it happened."
> 
> Seriously?


Well, so far, that is the biggest issue we have had. Some minor insecurity things, but nothing major.

I prided myself in loyalty and feel I've lost that to a certain degree. When she suggests I should be grateful, which I am, I feel it disregards that we first brought up threesomes because of her bisexuality not because of some fantasy I had.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

6301 said:


> Second. She lied to you for 15 years. She should have told you before you got married. How do you think she would handle it if you told her after 15 years that you were Bi?
> 
> What I don't understand is where she has the right to have sex with another woman just because she has the urge.
> 
> When I was married and saw a good looking woman and thought about how it would be to have sex with her because I had the urge didn't give me the right to act on it. It's called self control and respect for my wife.


These are very good points and I agree with them.

I do not think she lied for 15 years though, as a recent death in our family made us both realise life is short. With that idea, we both asked each other what we would or wouldn't regret in our lives. For instance, the amount of times we are intimate, or working overtime and not spending time at home because we want a larger savings account. Which one is more important to us?

Since she had never been with a woman, I wouldn't consider her telling me she feels bisexual 15 years into our marriage (she actually first told me maybe 13 years into our marriage but I didn't take it serious) is a lie. She said she always thought women were attractive but that was it. My daughter felt the same way and she told my daughter she also has those thoughts. From there, I took her serious and we talked about what she was feeling.

The last point you made is my biggest concern. I agree completely. I don't just have sex with random women because I have an urge and feel women are beautiful. Why should my wife? Just because she is a female? I guess after talking and her asking if it would be offensive to me (which is isn't, as long as I am not in the dark and she is off being intimate without me there). It would be offensive if she was alone though. Or maybe I am greedy and just want to be there? So I share my wife with other women just to also enjoy myself? I don't have the answer to that question. I do agree with you though. I guess I wonder if its cheating or wrong when I don't disagree with it? I also wonder if she will regret "sharing" me when maybe the bisexual urges aren't as strong. 

That's why I am here.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

You have jumped right into the proverbial deep end with your opening post.

It's provocative, and doesn't tell us anything about the state of your relationship or marriage outside of the context of bringing other women into the bedroom.

So? How is/was the state of your relationship before deciding to bring a third (wo)man in?

Do you have concerns that you have just greenlit the end of your marriage?

Why on Earth would you let her completely set the ground rules?

She thinks you should be grateful? Really? She isn't grateful that you gave your blessing to this undertaking? 

Do you wonder what she would have done if you had said 'No.'? Wonder what she'll do if you try to put a stop to it now?

You asked about others with experience, I can tell you outright, the question you DID ask, is NOT what respondents are going to be focusing on.

Suggest you PM Faithful Wife, she is happily married and an open bisexual.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

I have a question for you:

Since you aren't allowed to cum, and she claims her orgasms with women are fake....and she is telling you you should be grateful, when it was her idea all along....

Tell her you also have a fantasy, that you want to make love to a beautiful woman while she watches. Tell her she's not allowed to get off while watching you do it either...maybe she can touch the chick a bit, but this is your fantasy, it all about you, just like her fantasy was all about her, her idea. Tell her you really just want to make another woman orgasm while she watches, but you'll only be having fake orgasms with the other woman.

Then tell her she should be grateful you let her watch. Try to be as convincing as possible and gauge her reaction.

I think your wife is being rather selfish here, and then pinning it on you like she's doing you a favor. It's common for woman to assume all men want a 3 way with 2 chicks, but not every guy wants to actually do this with his wife...it's more of a fantasy, like straight women who get-off watching lesbian porn. 

Bottom line is it doesn't feel fair to you, so you need to discuss it and or stop it altogether. She puts restrictions on what you do but expects you to be cool with whatever she wants? You should have never agreed to this in the first place...coulda just watched lesbian or 3some porn together, you didn't have to actually let her have sex with other women. 

Bringing other people into the marriage really complicates things.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm bi-sexual. There is no reason a bi-sexual person cannot be monogamous. If you are having fun with threesomes, then great. But just know that there's no reason that just because she is bi-sexual that this means she "must" sleep with women. She just wants to. I guess if you feel "lucky" that your wife wants to sleep with other people...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Deejo said: "Suggest you PM Faithful Wife, she is happily married and an open bisexual."

AND MONOGAMOUS WITH MY HUSBAND.


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## JohnSebastian (Dec 24, 2013)

My wife has told me she's bi-curious. I don't know the extent of it yet. But if she wants to sleep with men or women, I'll just end it. The idea of a threesome has crossed her mind and mine, but I want to "try" to be a good Christian, so I just can't.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> Deejo said: "Suggest you PM Faithful Wife, she is happily married and an open bisexual."


That's why I thought your advice and perspective was warranted. You've never posted anything remotely like this scenario.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sometimes I think when people say something like "hey, you know, what if we tried some non-monogamy" what they are really saying is "I'm bored in bed with just you and I'm not sexually mature enough to figure it out for myself, so I figure hey why not add a third (or more) persons". Which then makes the third or more person into nothing more than a prop. How nice for them.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Deejo said:


> You have jumped right into the proverbial deep end with your opening post.
> 
> It's provocative, and doesn't tell us anything about the state of your relationship or marriage outside of the context of bringing other women into the bedroom.
> 
> So? How is/was the state of your relationship before deciding to bring a third (wo)man in?


For the first few years of our marriage we were best friends and newlyweds. It was great. For the next decade I became less attentive and sex became emotionless and robotic. Although we had sex probably every other day, afterwards I felt totally guilty. Guilty enough that the next day I wouldn't ask. It was her "day off." And in her case, when I did ask, she never said no. Although during sex she would moan, immediately afterwards, she would wash off, not talk, and mentally make me feel guilty. Maybe it was my own insecurities that made me feel this way because I knew I didn't deserve to have sex with her after ignoring her all day. I don't know. I just know we lived as "best friends" who were really just roommates that had sex. 

Then there was a death in the family and a health issue with myself. After talking, we both realised that we would rather spend time with other friends than each other and my lack of attention for her made her resent me after sex. This really hurt me. So a little more than 2 years ago I decided to drop a few hobbies and be more attentive. In return she became more sexual. This made me feel less guilty so I wanted to spend more time with her. This is all she ever wanted. 

And then came the talk with my daughter.



> Do you have concerns that you have just greenlit the end of your marriage?


I do have concerns that I have given her reason to resent me later. Even now, what's done is done. It will be hard to explain to my family that having threesomes was something I did because of her. 

If this was all a test of my loyalty, I failed horribly. I'm still failing. However, theses concerns do not erase both of us enjoying the experiences we are having. Every friend I have talked with off of this board has said "You are lucky but just know this usually won't end well." So yes, I am worried about the marriage not ending well. And so far, I haven't seen signs of that, but it's what everyone tells me. 



> Why on Earth would you let her completely set the ground rules?


Well, I set the ground rule of I didn't want her out on her own experiencing women. I immediately told her that I would be totally hurt if she had intimate time, even if it's a woman, while I am at home with the kids. She had her ground rules of watching or what she'd be okay with as far as my participation. Because she was the one bringing in someone of the same sex, I didn't want her experience to be uncomfortable or totally on my terms. It was a 50/50 thing, but I had my own "hidden" motives. As loyal as I was, I felt like it was lifting this huge weight off my shoulders. I wouldn't even look at another woman, even when my wife wasn't around. I forced myself to be loyal, not because of her, but because of my moral compass. The idea of her being happy with me, not because she sexually has had me to herself, but because mentally she has me all to herself, turned me on. I think being in love with me because she loves me, not because she is the only girl that has touched me in 15 years, almost liberated me. Dumb right? Either way, I wasn't against the threesome, I just felt it was wrong on the inside. Like, am I knowing making the worst decision of my marriage?



> She thinks you should be grateful? Really? She isn't grateful that you gave your blessing to this undertaking?


Our only arguement so far has been about this. I guess because I am stubborn and do not want to feel like I 'owe" her anything. Maybe my fear of being told that eventually she will want to bring a man into the bedroom, or just the fear of her feeling resentment. I wanted to pretend it was just her, but it wasn't. So we argued. Yes, she feels I should be just as grateful as she is. She may be right?



> Do you wonder what she would have done if you had said 'No.'? Wonder what she'll do if you try to put a stop to it no?


If I wouldn't have been open, she would have never told me what she felt to begin with. It was something she was embarrassed about. Like our daughter, she had the same mixed feelings, even as an adult. It's funny, how sometimes talks as a kid just confuse you more, and that kid inside you never dies. Well, I didn't make her feel embarrassed or ashamed. However, if I would have said no, which really isn't my personality, then nothing would have happened. I think my wife would have had that regret, and the death in our family kind of showed us life is too short to regret things. Maybe living out one thing to not regret it, creates new regrets? I hope not.



> You asked about others with experience, I can tell you outright, the question you DID ask, is NOT what respondents are going to be focusing on.


I thought they would focus on my daughter for some reason, so I tried to nip that. What will the focus be on? The threesome?



> Suggest you PM Faithful Wife, she is happily married and an open bisexual.


That would be great if she contributed to the discussion.

Hopefully the proverbial deep end doesn't mean I broke forum rules. Not my intentions. 

*I typed this response the first time and for whatever reason my browser errored and I lost it. I then typed it again but quickly. I am sure I made mistakes because I was retyping the same thing twice.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Coldie,

I'm pretty blunt but I do try to be polite. You are now in a one sided open relationship. You have given your wife permission to have sex with someone other than you while married. Relationships do not exist in a bubble. Relationships change and evolve. Do you honestly think that your marriage is going to stay just as it is? Do you honestly believe that after you have opened Pandora's box things will not spiral out of your control? I have seen relationships like yours and this never ends well.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

tulsy said:


> I have a question for you:
> 
> Since you aren't allowed to cum, and she claims her orgasms with women are fake....and she is telling you you should be grateful, when it was her idea all along....
> 
> ...


It absolutely complicates things. 

It really feels like outside opinions on the negative implications have affected us more than what we are actually going through though? That's what confuses me. I over analyse everything, including this. So I am looking into my situation trying to dissect and find all the things bad that people warn me about, but so far, that idea has ruined my experience the most.

Maybe we should just stop listening to people?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Coldie said:


> What will the focus be on? The threesome?


Roger that.




Coldie said:


> Hopefully the proverbial deep end doesn't mean I broke forum rules. Not my intentions.
> 
> *I typed this response the first time and for whatever reason my browser errored and I lost it. I then typed it again but quickly. I am sure I made mistakes because I was retyping the same thing twice.


No. You have not broken any forum rules. The absolutely most wonderful thing about our board is that you get contributions from many people with many perspectives. Oddly enough, this also happens to be one of the least wonderful things about the board as well.

Just wanted a notion of what your relationship with your wife was like, outside of the context of sex.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

bfree said:


> Coldie,
> 
> I'm pretty blunt but I do try to be polite. You are now in a one sided open relationship. You have given your wife permission to have sex with someone other than you while married. Relationships do not exist in a bubble. Relationships change and evolve. Do you honestly think that your marriage is going to stay just as it is? Do you honestly believe that after you have opened Pandora's box things will not spiral out of your control? I have seen relationships like yours and this never ends well.



That's my thinking as well.......


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm bi-sexual. There is no reason a bi-sexual person cannot be monogamous. If you are having fun with threesomes, then great. But just know that there's no reason that just because she is bi-sexual that this means she "must" sleep with women. She just wants to. I guess if you feel "lucky" that your wife wants to sleep with other people...


I agree with this completely, and so does my wife.

I do not think there was ever an issue of she must be with other women just because she feels attracted to them. She expressed her bisexuality and we discussed the possibilities. 

Faithful, are threesomes with your husband and another woman just a bad idea in your opinion? And if you could be honest, I'd love to get your input. My wife's biggest concern, which kept her from really opening up was, if she expressed to me she was bi, I would want to have a threesome. Basically, her worse fear came to fruitation. Are you against having a threesome married because you are possessive of your husband and do not want him to experience another woman with you (I understand this feeling)? Or he is possessive of you and is totally against sharing you with "people" ( -- another woman). Or are you panasexual? You do not like a man or woman, you like the person. Panasexual is a bit different, as you fall in love with the person, not the sex. 

Please take into consideration, if you were bisexual, yet you never had that experience. This is important and I understand this is a marriage forum, but how would you feel if you realised you were bisexual during your marriage. It's not really an urge to have sex with other "people" but to try something you have never done. Huge difference, especially if you are speaking from experience and you met your husband after you had multiple experiences with women. You knew what it was like, you do not have questions about your sexuality and were happy with your choice. Things change.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

JohnSebastian said:


> My wife has told me she's bi-curious. I don't know the extent of it yet. But if she wants to sleep with men or women, I'll just end it. The idea of a threesome has crossed her mind and mine, but I want to "try" to be a good Christian, so I just can't.


I feel like my moral compass is so strong, yet I totally failed here. Maybe it's a sex addiction thing.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Sometimes I think when people say something like "hey, you know, what if we tried some non-monogamy" what they are really saying is "I'm bored in bed with just you and I'm not sexually mature enough to figure it out for myself, so I figure hey why not add a third (or more) persons". Which then makes the third or more person into nothing more than a prop. How nice for them.


The third person is absolutely a prop... in every sense of the word. A sex toy. This thought process actually makes it easy to handle, because it's true. I understand you are feeling compassion for the third person, but that's their choice, you know? As a married couple, we definitely discussed multiple times that the third person is nothing more than a tool for foreplay. But I don't see that as a negative? Maybe its a sociapath thing for us both (trying to make it totally a negative thing -- but I'd disagree).

We've talked about poly as well, where there is no "prop", but I do not think this would be a good topic for this forum (the real proverbial deep end). 

I learn something new about myself a lot, I wish I could say each day but that would be a lie. Either way, I am constantly maturing, so I would agree with it being a maturity issue. However, you hit the nail on the head with the third person being a prop. 

I think I may discuss with her tonight that we should put a stop to adding a third person again until we discuss what we are feeling. Maybe put a little time behind us to see if our feelings change or we develop resentment?

For the record, I do not consider using "props" as sexual immature. It's quite the contrary. Using toys, props, and anything to spark things in the bedroom, without insecurities, is extremely mature. Immaturity is the opposite. But that's just my humble opinion. I am constantly learning so I feel everyone is maturing in some way, but I just don't agree with using "props" as being immature.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> That's my thinking as well.......



Id echo that statement too. It sounds very one sided for her. 
Although to be honest I'm not sure what id do if my wife came out like this. I find two women making love very erotic so it would be tough for me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

coldie...I've never had a threesome or moresome. Being bi-sexual doesn't mean "group sex is my thing, baby". And people can be into group sex without being bi. They are two separate things, IMO.

Then there is the poly lifestyle. I was in that lifestyle for a time, long before meeting my current husband. And yet still, that didn't mean group sex, for me.

I am sorry, I just don't have any relevant experience for you on the threesome stuff. It just isn't something I would want to do. 

I do wish that the typical vision of a bi-sexual woman didn't include the idea that she also wants groups sex.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: Found out my wife is bisexual after 15 years of marriage.*



Faithful Wife said:


> I do wish that the typical vision of a bi-sexual woman didn't include the idea that she also wants groups sex.


Well, coldie can correct me if I'm wrong, but upon reading several of his posts it appears thst the 3some was his idea and not his wife's. This would also explain her position that he should be grateful.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> coldie...I've never had a threesome or moresome. Being bi-sexual doesn't mean "group sex is my thing, baby". And people can be into group sex without being bi. They are two separate things, IMO.
> 
> Then there is the poly lifestyle. I was in that lifestyle for a time, long before meeting my current husband. And yet still, that didn't mean group sex, for me.
> 
> ...



My issue is a regarding threesomes, not so much how people view bisexuality. 

My wife views women who have sex with women alone as closet lesbians, not bisexual. Regardless of if they like men, they are never having "true bisexual experiences." A bisexual experience is not a lesbian experience. She uses the example of lesbian and bisexual pornograhy. You will not find a female on female alone in bisexual porn, because that is a not a bisexual experience or porn, it's a lesbian experience. She enjoys the idea of experiencing what she likes together and calls it a true bisexual experience. I'd argue she wishes the typical view of bisexual women in the lifestyle, would stop saying they are bisexual when they are looking for lesbian relationships. So, that is all perspective and preference. 

Not my issue either way.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Deejo - Yes, I didn't necessarily mean Coldie's view on bi-sexual women....just "in general" people tend to think that bi-sexual people "have to" have a partner of each gender and group sex/threesomes.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Coldie....I would argue your wife isn't bi-sexual, she is just bored in bed.

Especially since she apparently considers porn to be "how things are" for different sexual orientations. That couldn't be more insulting to actual bi-sexual people. But have fun with it, I guess.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Deejo said:


> Well, coldie can correct me if I'm wrong, but upon reading several of his posts it appears thst the 3some was his idea and not his wife's. This would also explain her position that he should be grateful.


Our decision was 50/50, but I did indeed let her know I was not okay with her ever meeting up with some random girl and they have sex alone together. This is an absolute boundary. I feel that would a lead to my wife feeling inimate moments alone and opening the door to threesomes with another couple or just outright cheating with a guy. Under no circumstances am I okay with her having any sexual or intimate moments without me invovled in her experiences. 

We discussed her sexuality and the only way she would be able to explore it further within our marriage was to have me watch or join in a limited role. Which is why she is able to lay the ground rules. However, I'd say the threesome was a mutual idea. I had never brought it up in our entire marriage and prided myself in being 100% loyal. It would have been an insult to my own morals if I would have suggested otherwise.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Coldie....I would argue your wife isn't bi-sexual, she is just bored in bed.
> 
> Especially since she apparently considers porn to be "how things are" for different sexual orientations. That couldn't be more insulting to actual bi-sexual people. But have fun with it, I guess.


That would be an argument for you and her. She isn't _that_ bored in bed because she isn't here on the sex forums arguing with me, you know? She may be bored but not _especially_ because of her analogy. I also do not consider using porn genres as an example or analogy is the same as "considers porn to be how things are." Her point is valid regardless, a bisexual experience is not a lesbian or hetero experience. This is probably why so many people consider bisexuality a group thing. So your problem is more with the porn industry than me, her, or anyone else on this forum. 

You sound very interesting and I commend you for being in a committed relationship with a man, monogamous, that hopefully lasts forever. Your bisexuality, if that was what it was (sounds more like pansexual), is no longer an issue in your life. I don't really want to argue about it. 

If your contribution to the discussion is that my wife sounds bored in bed and isn't bisexual at all, I will accept that. She may be. However, that has nothing to do with her distinction between women that claim they are bisexual but want only lesbian experiences, or her analogy to porn genres. That sounds more like bitterness.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Not bitter, just proud of my sexual orientation. The way it really is, not the way others "think" it is.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not bitter, just proud of my sexual orientation. The way it really is, not the way others "think" it is.


Okay, I understand that. 

My biggest goal is to keep my marriage successful. That's why I am here. What would you suggest I do to make my wife less bored in bed and stop thinking about using women as props? 

I'm curious, how long have you been married? If it is under 15 years, do you think it's possible you could change or open up prior to your 15th year? If you have been married beyond 15 years, some advice on how you have kept your mind off women. I'd pass along to my wife and I'm sure she'd appreciate it.

Thanks.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

so let me get this straoght.

shes bisexual and held it from you for 15yrs
shes told your 14 yr old daughter this.
now you guys have threesomes with other women.(did she also tell your daughter this?)
during these threesomes she fakes her orgasms(really) and you have to hold yours in.

hmmm, this would not be acceptable to me as her husband. Sorry but I don't see what you get out of this arrangement. 

I would bet the house if shes not already having a lesbian affair it will be shortly forthcomming. 


get your ducks in a row...........just in case.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Been together 10 years, happily and sexually satisfied with the same man. I've had my experiences with women in the past, and if I hadn't, I would probably be wondering about it for the rest of my life and that could be a problem...but we're lucky in that we've both had time before we met to sow our oats (this is a 2nd marriage for us both). My husband has quite the colorful sexual past before meeting me too, and I'm happy for him. 

Did your wife have any bi experiences before you met her?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> so let me get this straoght.
> 
> shes bisexual and held it from you for 15yrs
> shes told your 14 yr old daughter this.
> ...


He gets to recieve oral and penetration from other ladies in his wife's presense, she gets to do the same gender sex acts that she wants to do.

He may not have needed sex acts with another person other than his wife, but once she realize that life is short and this is a part of her she does not want to let fully go of, it's a way for both of them to enjoy it and no sneaking around.

I too, do see the day where her desire for the ladies pushes him out of the picture. That taste, that hunger grows as it is fed. She will fall in love with one of her female lovers, and husband will have same lack of connection as a man who was cuckholded by his wife.

Dangerous dangerous stuff.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

treyvion said:


> He gets to recieve oral and penetration from other ladies in his wife's presense, she gets to do the same gender sex acts that she wants to do.
> 
> He may not have needed sex acts with another person other than his wife, but once she realize that life is short and this is a part of her she does not want to let fully go of, it's a way for both of them to enjoy it and no sneaking around.
> 
> ...


sounds like hes getting the short end of the stick in this arrangement.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Coldie...look, here's my stance.

"I want to have sex with someone else" is what your wife is saying, and it doesn't really matter that "bi-sexuality" is behind that statement.

The "reason" she wants to have sex with someone else is kinda irrelevant...she just does.

Now if you are OK with that because it means you get to have sex with someone else, too...then that's where you're at with it.

Just know that there are many people who use the "bi-curious" line just to be able to screw around. I can't say about your wife one way or the other, but people who say that porn is any depiction of sexual orientation (when it comes to girl on girl stuff) are usually very far off base. If you would read up on some LBGT literature you would see why that is.

Do you or don't you want to have sex with other people? Because that's really all that is going on here. If you do, then figure out how to make it work out for you both.

But please do understand that people are not props, even if you want them to be.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> sounds like hes getting the short end of the stick in this arrangement.


Wife is still expirmenting with it. At least he isn't being cucked, and have his wife pleasure and be pleasured in the room while husband can do nothing.

However, you know these things grow, and progress. I see her progressing into the same sex sexual relations if she likes it and keep doing it. 

She may end up liking loving and being loved on by females more than a male and he becomes displaced.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> so let me get this straoght.
> 
> shes bisexual and held it from you for 15yrs
> shes told your 14 yr old daughter this.
> ...


She is bisexual and just came to this revelation a few years ago. She told me a few years ago and I didn't take her serious. My daughter then discussed with her that she felt gay and my wife explained to her that those feelings are normal. After that discussion I took my wife a bit more serious. She had never experienced a woman in her life but was very interested in trying. We have been married for 15 years, monogamous. A month after our 15th anniversary we had our first threesome (3 months ago).

No, we do not talk to our daughter about our exploits. We do treat our daughter like an adult and hopefully when she gets older she respect that.

I am also scared of the lesbian thing, but like I discussed with Faithful, my wife finds it insulting women claim to be bisexual yet are looking for lesbian relationships/experiences. She is extremely educated, so she isn't sitting in a trailer park somewhere watching porn and making up her mind about who she is or how the world is. She has her beliefs on what a bisexual person is, and like you guys can see, all bisexual women don't believe the same things. That's fine with me.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

treyvion said:


> Wife is still expirmenting with it. At least he isn't being cucked, and have his wife pleasure and be pleasured in the room while husband can do nothing.
> 
> However, you know these things grow, and progress. I see her progressing into the same sex sexual relations if she likes it and keep doing it.
> 
> She may end up liking loving and being loved on by females more than a male and he becomes displaced.


This is how I feel treyvion. Finally someone that may get what I am feeling. I am scared it will grow and progress. I see her progressing as well but in it's current state I see none of the things I am being warned about. 

Is it possible to maintain?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> This is how I feel treyvion. Finally someone that may get what I am feeling. I am scared it will grow and progress. I see her progressing as well but in it's current state I see none of the things I am being warned about.
> 
> Is it possible to maintain?


I guess if she remembers she's "bi-sexual" you'll be ok. It's interesting that she has such strong feelings that "bi-sexual" doesn't mean "lesbian".

You could be fine. But you know it's always a risk to open a relation. 

If you guys can keep doing it in front of each other and be transparent, you may just end up fine.

Also she could put an end to it eventually, after having tried her kink enough.

You'll tell us how to handle these situations


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

coldie said: "She has her beliefs on what a bisexual person is, and like you guys can see, all bisexual women don't believe the same things."

The problem with this is that she can only decide what being bi-sexual means for HERSELF, not other people.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

treyvion said:


> He gets to recieve oral and penetration from other ladies in his wife's presense, she gets to do the same gender sex acts that she wants to do.
> 
> He may not have needed sex acts with another person other than his wife, but once she realize that life is short and this is a part of her she does not want to let fully go of, it's a way for both of them to enjoy it and no sneaking around.
> 
> ...


Fire indeed.

I absolutely have no desire to have sex with women at all. In all 3 experiences I have not achieved a full erection until later than night with my wife. Obviously my wife is there, so she sees it herself. Whether it be oral or her pushing my penis inside the other women, then pulling it out to taste the woman off my penis, I have at most been 50% erect. I am sorry if that is too many details, but I want to clarify that although its flattering to see a woman okay with me penetrating them or being into me enough to want to have oral sex with me, while my wife helps, I only have eyes for my wife. The "prop" thing Faithful mentioned, is exactly right. She was using it as a way to explain how crappy the third woman would feel, but that isn't something I care about. That's the third woman's choice, I will not kiss her or lead her to believe otherwise. But the "prop" idealogy is accurate. She has probably at some point in her life felt that or discussed that with a previous partner, becaue it's very unique insight from someone who has lived that lifestyle. And that isn't an insult Faithful, it was a compliment. As much as we have bickered, there have been some things you've said that were very accurate.

And the bored in bed also has a bit of truth to it. We do use toys, we do get creative, role play, have long sessions, etc. It wouldn't be the first time we got bored and tried to spice things up.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LOL! No, dear coldie....I've never been someone's prop, and neither have I ever used someone as a prop.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Fire indeed.
> 
> I absolutely have no desire to have sex with women at all. In all 3 experiences I have not achieved a full erection until later than night with my wife. Obviously my wife is there, so she sees it herself. Whether it be oral or her pushing my penis inside the other women, then pulling it out to taste the woman off my penis, I have at most been 50% erect. I am sorry if that is too many details, but I want to clarify that although its flattering to see a woman okay with me penetrating them or being into me enough to want to have oral sex with me, while my wife helps, I only have eyes for my wife. The "prop" thing Faithful mentioned, is exactly right. She was using it as a way to explain how crappy the third woman would feel, but that isn't something I care about. That's the third woman's choice, I will not kiss her or lead her to believe otherwise. But the "prop" idealogy is accurate. She has probably at some point in her life felt that or discussed that with a previous partner, becaue it's very unique insight from someone who has lived that lifestyle. And that isn't an insult Faithful, it was a compliment. As much as we have bickered, there have been some things you've said that were very accurate.
> 
> And the bored in bed also has a bit of truth to it. We do use toys, we do get creative, role play, have long sessions, etc. It wouldn't be the first time we got bored and tried to spice things up.


I like the "prop" designation, because it insinuates that the primary relationship will not be diminished.

Later on, your wife can prepare your erection for what she wants you to do with it. I can understand how right now your a bit nervous.

I think your wise that if your going to go down this path, that you will have to always be in the picture. If she starts up stuff on the sly, your going to have to treat the situation like she cheated on you.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> coldie said: "She has her beliefs on what a bisexual person is, and like you guys can see, all bisexual women don't believe the same things."
> 
> The problem with this is that she can only decide what being bi-sexual means for HERSELF, not other people.


There is no problem.

She isn't here discussing her beliefs on a message board, I am. She says what she feels privately to me. She feels what she feels. She will also say that if a woman wants to be bisexual or say they are bisexual and only have lesbian experiences, then that woman can do that. She isn't telling women they aren't bisexual and she thinks the world should change. She is saying she is bisexual because she has bisexual experiences, not because she has sex with a man, then sex with a woman. 

Like I said, there is no problem.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

sounds like your not really ok with her sexuality.and thats ok!

if your not tell her and if she leaves then you know she wanted women over men and I call that homosexuality.

would you ever chose to be in this situation or would you prefer not to.

if its the latter then .......make it a boundrie and be true to yourself.

or compromise you beliefs so she can sow her wild oats and maybe leave because she was confused about her orientation sexually.

if you treat your 14yr old as an adult(I don't know why shes 14 and not an adult) then tell her.

I think your wife has been gay her whole life and supressed it because it was not thought of acceptable when she was growing up but now that its more acceptable and her daughter is asking she felt obligated to suport her so she doesn't make the same mistake she made by marring someone of a sex she isn't really attracted too.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

All I am saying is that just because she says "other women this or that" doesn't mean she gets to decide what bi-sexual means for anyone but herself.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

treyvion said:


> I like the "prop" designation, because it insinuates that the primary relationship will not be diminished.
> 
> Later on, your wife can prepare your erection for what she wants you to do with it. I can understand how right now your a bit nervous.
> 
> I think your wise that if your going to go down this path, that you will have to always be in the picture. If she starts up stuff on the sly, your going to have to treat the situation like she cheated on you.


I'm unsure if I like you because you are telling me what I want to here, or because you are speaking to me logically. 

This scares me a bit. I do agree with what you said earlier. This is a dangerous situation. It actually is very good to see that I am not alone with all my concerns. My friends have said things, but it's good to see how other people would react.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> All I am saying is that just because she says "other women this or that" doesn't mean she gets to decide what bi-sexual means for anyone but herself.


This all started with you saying the following:



> I do wish that the typical vision of a bi-sexual woman didn't include the idea that she also wants groups sex.


I simply wrote out that she feels the exact opposite. She wishes bisexual women would not have the typical vision that just because she says she is bisexual doesn't mean she wants to have lesbian relationship/experience. She wanted a bisexual experience. That was her point. That was also my point. 

This back and forth really isn't going anywhere, you can either agree to disagree or claim my wife is wrong for doing exactly what you did. Either way, I can't speak for her any longer regarding her beliefs, as I may have mispoke. She isn't on the forums.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> LOL! No, dear coldie....I've never been someone's prop, and neither have I ever used someone as a prop.


Unforunately, I have.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> I'm unsure if I like you because you are telling me what I want to here, or because you are speaking to me logically.
> 
> This scares me a bit. I do agree with what you said earlier. This is a dangerous situation. It actually is very good to see that I am not alone with all my concerns. My friends have said things, but it's good to see how other people would react.


Well you are in it now, I don't think she's going to close this door yet. So i'm just giving my opinion with respect to the situation.

She needs to know if she's doing anything on the sly that you will have to treat the situation like she cheated on you. That under no circumstances will you allow it, because you will be gone.

She may close up this chapter later on if you are having too much fun with the lady or the lady is having too much fun with you.

She can close it up, and be angry with you. Resentment.

I guess thinking about it, I would try to change nothing at all and hope for the best.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

coldie said: "She wishes bisexual women would not have the typical vision that just because she says she is bisexual doesn't mean she wants to have lesbian relationship/experience. She wanted a bisexual experience. That was her point. That was also my point."

*She wishes OTHER bi-sexual women didn't feel authentic in their sexual orientation and instead "watched porn" to understand themselves?*

Oh please.

Hey, guess what? I learned from porn that men have an average sized penis of 10 inches! Whoop!

(sorry...couldn't resist)

coldie...I worry that you are being bamboozled. Take care.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Been together 10 years, happily and sexually satisfied with the same man. I've had my experiences with women in the past, and if I hadn't, I would probably be wondering about it for the rest of my life and that could be a problem...but we're lucky in that we've both had time before we met to sow our oats (this is a 2nd marriage for us both). My husband has quite the colorful sexual past before meeting me too, and I'm happy for him.
> 
> Did your wife have any bi experiences before you met her?






Faithful Wife said:


> Coldie...look, here's my stance.
> 
> "I want to have sex with someone else" is what your wife is saying, and it doesn't really matter that "bi-sexuality" is behind that statement.
> 
> ...


These posts are actually very good. I like the honesty of your first post, where you admit to it possibly being an issue if you hadn't already experienced women. 

And the second reply is accurate. Maybe I am compartmentalizing, but I do tell myself that I am not having sex with the other girl, but sometimes I am used as a "prop" so they both enjoy their bisexual experience. Either way, I am glad I got those responses out of you, because for me, they are much more helpful.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Like FW said, bi-sexuality is not by definition a desire nor the act of having group sex.

In my mind, bi-sexuality is the experience of having had sex partners or the desire to have sex partners of both genders, but not necessarily at the same time.

I'm not sure how I would respond to my wife telling me she wanted to have sex with another woman. First of all, that is well outside of previously established boundaries in our marriage. I think if I was in your shoes, I would have suggested some sort of formal separation while she went to explore her need to be sexual with another woman, and I would be prepared to have the marriage end because she was being unfaithful to me. Not to mention that she may find that she prefers sex with a female to having sex with me.

Anyway, the situation that you have described makes the lines very blurry. If you and she are both enjoying yourselves, then that is A-OK I reckon. But be prepared for her to want more (i.e. her wanting to be with another woman all by herself, her wanting to bring a man into the picture, or her deciding that sex with another - man or woman - is preferable to having sex with you).

I agree with other posters that this has much more to do with sexual boredom than with her exploring her bi-sexuality. What you have now is by all accounts an "open marriage" with a handful of restrictions.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> coldie said: "She wishes bisexual women would not have the typical vision that just because she says she is bisexual doesn't mean she wants to have lesbian relationship/experience. She wanted a bisexual experience. That was her point. That was also my point."
> 
> *She wishes OTHER bi-sexual women didn't feel authentic in their sexual orientation and instead "watched porn" to understand themselves?*
> 
> ...


Wish I had that issue LOL!!!!!
I'm about 7.5'' so not bad I guess.
Coldie, tread carefully here. Is this sex with the same woman or are there multiple partners? That could be a major issue.
Does she want an open relationship??


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> Like FW said, bi-sexuality is not by definition a desire nor the act of having group sex.
> 
> In my mind, bi-sexuality is the experience of having had sex partners or the desire to have sex partners of both genders, but not necessarily at the same time.
> 
> I'm not sure how I would respond to my wife telling me she wanted to have sex with another woman. First of all, that is well outside of previously established boundaries in our marriage. I think if I was in your shoes, I would have suggested some sort of formal separation while she went to explore her need to be sexual with another woman, and I would be prepared to have the marriage end because she was being unfaithful to me. Not to mention that she may find that she prefers sex with a female to having sex with me.


This happens on TAM and other marriage/infidelity forums all the time in this situation. It's one way the progression can go, it's a pretty common direction...



keeper63 said:


> Anyway, the situation that you have described makes the lines very blurry. If you and she are both enjoying yourselves, then that is A-OK I reckon. But be prepared for her to want more (i.e. her wanting to be with another woman all by herself, her wanting to bring a man into the picture, or her deciding that sex with another - man or woman - is preferable to having sex with you).
> 
> I agree with other posters that this has much more to do with sexual boredom than with her exploring her bi-sexuality. What you have now is by all accounts an "open marriage" with a handful of restrictions.


Of course she may want more. He is going to have to be firm in his boundary, that there is going to be no other men in this situation. Also if she goes sneaking around on him with women behind his back then it's over, he cannot do it.

Like I said, when one of the ladies likes the husband more or the husband looks like he is having too much fun with the lady, the wife may lose interest.

I still count on her taste for women to grow as long as she continues on the path.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> coldie said: "She wishes bisexual women would not have the typical vision that just because she says she is bisexual doesn't mean she wants to have lesbian relationship/experience. She wanted a bisexual experience. That was her point. That was also my point."
> 
> *She wishes OTHER bi-sexual women didn't feel authentic in their sexual orientation and instead "watched porn" to understand themselves?*
> 
> ...


Again, the porn analogy was simply an analogy. That seems to be the focus of what you want to mention because it's easy to ridicule the porn industry. Oh the silly porn industry influences the weak! The truth is, and you are right, bisexuality really is about married women wanting to have lesbian relationships on the side, not with their husbands or boyfriends involved. Your typical "bisexual" housewife wants to have a relationship on the side and totally exclude her husband or the idea of "group" sex, because she is against that. We both know it's not "authentic" when it's actually the majority. 

That's the truth. So, you're right, the typical view of bisexuality for women who say they are bisexual isn't accurate. It's not the version men watch on their disgusting weakminded porn. For my wife, it is. The typical view is accurate to what she likes. That is just something you want to shrug off as, "she watched too much porn and thinks that is what she wants". 'She just wants a guy and a girl together so she can share his penis like she saw in a video." Your way is because its real and sincere, hers is because she is bored in bed. And it really seems like you want me to accept that. 

I won't. 

Your bisexuality is no more real than hers. You can't label your version as the way bisexuality is, because the simple fact remains, a bisexual experience is not a lesbian experience. That will never change.

Also, if I watch porn, it's usually amateur. The average size seems to be about 6 inches or so. We are from totally different worlds... and that's okay.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

First off, BOTH of you should read my reply. I also think you are being taken advantage of. In addition, the lying for 15 years is HUGE!

That being said, I don't think you guys should throw the baby out with the bath water.

I realize things probably aren't as simple as my above reply suggests. So here is some serious advice for the BOTH of you:

Stop doing things for a while and talk. Then talk some more. Then talk some more. And to many guys: this may sound great, but when it involves a loved one, things aren't so simple. And to women: if the tables were turned you too could begin to fathom how unsimple this is. That being said, the pandora's box is already opened. It can either destroy your relationship, or take you to new and great levels you don't even know yet.

Communicate. Talk. Communicate some more. Talk, talk Talk!

1. Can you live with the fact that she is attracted to someone of the same sex? (This is not a tolerance thing, or being old fashioned. We are talking about your mate.

2. To her: could she live if the tables were turned and YOU were bisexual.

3. Have you considered all of those boundaries that you as a man shouldn't cross with a woman? Of COURSE, she shouldn't cross those boundaries with a man either. Now consider this: shouldn't those boundaries (at least as an ideal starting point), be the same for her and other women too? 

*I am not suggesting an answer to these questions but you two will HAVE to deal with them somehow.

I will tell you what worked for us. And it took THOUSANDS of hours and many heated, sleepless nights of misunderstanding, love, understanding, empathy, anger, love, etc. to get to where we are now. And where exactly is that for us?

She doesn't NEED a woman. She COULD be with a woman in a hypothetical scenario that she was single and not with me. For us, that is HUGE! That means that, even though she is bisexual, I still get the same benefits that other heterosexual couples take for granted: that their significant other can give them all they need.

In addition, through very close talking, she realized that if *I* was the one that was bisexual, she would have the exact same issues as I had. Notice I said HAD. We no longer have issues here.

Another piece of this puzzle that makes this works for us is our very deep, close emotional connection. In addition, we have an amazing sex life that removes all shadow of doubt that both of us are totally INTO each other. Together, both of these things have created a sincere, loving, emotional, SPIRITUAL, sex life that makes us enjoy making the other partner feel good: makes us enjoy seeing the other partner FEEL good.

With those set ingredients, it made the most difficult task possible to be discussed. The bold honest truth it took me far too long to admit? Sexually, I LOVED the idea. I couldn't stop thinking about it. In addition, I felt a sense of jealousy, and a sense of ironic cruelty, a sense of wrongness in the universe that I could be placed with a totally hot bisexual woman that has no interest in exploring those possibilities with me. I felt ashamed for feeling that way. But it was the truth.

What we came to realize was that we had the potential for a sort of beautiful perfection. She had never fully understood or fully realized the potential for same sex activities. In addition, because of our deep conversation, I truly began to realize just how totally important this is for me (not just some dumb guy thing). 

We are also both EXTREMELY jealous.

No, you don't understand. VERY, VERY jealous.

Once we established all of the above, some serious ground rules were placed. No friends from the past. Yet we don't want some reckless one night stand. We have to gradually develop a friendship TOGETHER. The friendship must be balanced and equal. No one should feel like a third wheel. Lastly, but MOST importantly, everything is ultimately about us two, and enjoying each other.

With all of those difficult factors in place after much time and talk, we were able to start working in baby steps.

Baby steps.

Did I say baby steps?

You have no idea how you will react when you WANT her to flirt with a woman somewhere, so she does what you tell her, and then you get hurt! Why were you hurt? Because you didn't trust that she was doing for you guys but only for herself. And when that happens, you have to talk about it. Learn from the mistakes, and continue in baby steps.

This is very, very tricky. Move slowly and cautiously. With a little luck, all the talking, and close emotional bonds (that are necessary) will make your relationship stronger regardless of the outcome.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Fords, 3 experiences, 2 different women.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

LoveLonely said:


> First off, BOTH of you should read my reply. I also think you are being taken advantage of. In addition, the lying for 15 years is HUGE!
> 
> That being said, I don't think you guys should throw the baby out with the bath water.
> 
> ...


This is gold. I will print this off for her. Thank you.

If I suggested she lied to me for 15 years anywhere in my OP, that was inaccurate. She was never with a woman prior and never kissed a girl let alone felt she was bisexual. She said when she was a teenager she was attracted to girls but she knew it would shame her parents and suppressed it. She told me a few years ago and I thought she was playing with me. It wasn't until she talked with my daughter having the same issues she had at the same age, that I realized she was serious.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

treyvion said:


> As long as he ensures she doesn't "cheat" on him, he could be fine. He still has opened a pandoras box which will progress to some more mature point in it. Hey may not like the results, or she could lose her interest which will be the best thing to happen.


This is my biggest concern, but as of now, no signs. She is shy and quiet, and very reserved. She insists that she is not interested in guys at all, and she isn't turned on by lesbian experiences. The guy thing I want to believe, but the lesbian thing, I don't. I saw her with a woman, and she didn't seem like my shy wife. She was all over the girls.

I think that is our test. Just because she is bi doesn't mean she can have sex with a woman on the side. That to me, would be cheating and I wouldn't be able to trust her again. Girl or guy, no difference to me.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Coldie said:


> Fords, 3 experiences, 2 different women.


Ok so what was your take?
-too nervous to get a full erection
-feel the relationship is threatened
-your boundaries are threatened
-are you being left out in the cold??


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Coldie said:


> This is gold. I will print this off for her. Thank you.
> 
> If I suggested she lied to me for 15 years anywhere in my OP, that was inaccurate. She was never with a woman prior and never kissed a girl let alone felt she was bisexual. She said when she was a teenager she was attracted to girls but she knew it would shame her parents and suppressed it. She told me a few years ago and I thought she was playing with me. It wasn't until she talked with my daughter having the same issues she had at the same age, that I realized she was serious.


she lied to herself about her orientation. because her parents would be upset.

now why would she give up the cash cow(you) now that she can experiance it without anybody finding out.

how would you fair if say in three years or five years she said I think I am truly gay.

would your mind be fvcked up knowing you footed the bill and all for a woman who wasn't strong enough to realsize that she was gay and your whole life was kinda wasted. trying to love someone who never really desired you in the first place. 

shes selfish and need to be all in with desiring you as her husband or be free to be gay.

and you need to be strong enough to know what your boundries are and hold her too them or walk.

good luck.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> This is my biggest concern, but as of now, no signs. She is shy and quiet, and very reserved. She insists that she is not interested in guys at all, and she isn't turned on by lesbian experiences. The guy thing I want to believe, but the lesbian thing, I don't. I saw her with a woman, and she didn't seem like my shy wife. She was all over the girls.
> 
> I think that is our test. Just because she is bi doesn't mean she can have sex with a woman on the side. That to me, would be cheating and I wouldn't be able to trust her again. Girl or guy, no difference to me.


You HAVE to look at it this way. Man or woman, if she starts up something on the side, it can grow to displace you and you will be CUCKED! CUCKED by a woman, lol. I guess that wouldn't hurt as bad, but it would still hurt.

I figured she'd be all over the girls, probably hungry and THIRSTY for them, and it will grow as she feeds it.

Just make sure she remembers that no other guys.

And cheating on you is not a possibility.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Fordsvt said:


> Ok so what was your take?
> -too nervous to get a full erection
> -feel the relationship is threatened
> -your boundaries are threatened
> -are you being left out in the cold??


Prior to meeting my wife, I had I believe, 3 somewhat serious girlfriends. This is in high school so I am not talking about experiences that are extremely sexual. However, there were chances with these three girls where sex was involved, and with each, I had trouble maintaining my erection. Whether it was grabbing a condom, nervous, or just the pressure from friends to do what they were doing. At the time, although I knew I wasn't in to them, I could leave that room and tell my friends, "yea, we did it." 

Again, I didn't orgasm with any of them. 

And then I met my wife. Whatever it was, our connection, me feeling totally confortable, or just what she does to me, I've never had any erection issues and obviously I orgasmed with her. Now, this isn't just something I am telling you, this is also something my wife knows and holds onto. Whether I was young, scared, intimidated, I will never know, but my wife prided herself in being THAT girl. Now, with the threesomes, she sees it with her own eyes. As stupid as that sounds, she is turned on seeing me 50% erect. It verifies what I told her from the beginning, and I have no idea what it is. I am the type that believes in soulmates, I watch girl movies, and I really don't enjoy sex unless I know I am loved? However, as a kid, I was satisfied "being" with a woman, enough to say I did, but not go all the way with them. I think that has carried over into my adult life.

Again, I am extremely analytical and this has nothing to do with the topic. An introvert totally.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Prior to meeting my wife, I had I believe, 3 somewhat serious girlfriends. This is in high school so I am not talking about experiences that are extremely sexual. However, there were chances with these three girls where sex was involved, and with each, I had trouble maintaining my erection. Whether it was grabbing a condom, nervous, or just the pressure from friends to do what they were doing. At the time, although I knew I wasn't in to them, I could leave that room and tell my friends, "yea, we did it."
> 
> Again, I didn't orgasm with any of them.
> 
> ...


I'm the same way where my private part has "loyalty" to the spouse or long term girlfriend and will not act as strongly to someone new or an outside situation.

The 50% is a good thing for the wife to see you aren't super hot for these other women, it's more for her.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> she lied to herself about her orientation. because her parents would be upset.
> 
> now why would she give up the cash cow(you) now that she can experiance it without anybody finding out.
> 
> ...


Like, what are you saying? Leave her? Stop the threesomes? Make her understand that being bisexual doesn't mean we have sex with women? I think if I said lets stop, I think we'd transition back into our old life, yet without that "thrill." Is she bicurious now? No, she is absolutely bi. She has definitely confirmed it is not something she just thought would be fun, she loves feeling a woman. But does she love it enough to keep doing it? I don't think so. The fact I am with her keeps her very level headed because she can't have her cake and eat it too, she has always been very jealous. I've never even been to a strip club.... and now I see nude women in my bed? There are cons to her pros, and I absolutely will not allow her to have a relationship without me around. She insists she has no desire to have a lesbian relationship, and it literally turns her off to not be able to share and have me with her.

That's where I'm at.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Like, what are you saying? Leave her? Stop the threesomes? Make her understand that being bisexual doesn't mean we have sex with women? I think if I said lets stop, I think we'd transition back into our old life, yet without that "thrill." Is she bicurious now? No, she is absolutely bi. She has definitely confirmed it is not something she just thought would be fun, she loves feeling a woman. But does she love it enough to keep doing it? I don't think so. The fact I am with her keeps her very level headed because she can't have her cake and eat it too, she has always been very jealous. I've never even been to a strip club.... and now I see nude women in my bed? There are cons to her pros, and I absolutely will not allow her to have a relationship without me around. She insists she has no desire to have a lesbian relationship, and it literally turns her off to not be able to share and have me with her.
> 
> That's where I'm at.


Keep us fed with updates, this is an interesting situation.


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

Coldie said:


> This is gold. I will print this off for her. Thank you.
> 
> If I suggested she lied to me for 15 years anywhere in my OP, that was inaccurate. She was never with a woman prior and never kissed a girl let alone felt she was bisexual. She said when she was a teenager she was attracted to girls but she knew it would shame her parents and suppressed it. She told me a few years ago and I thought she was playing with me. It wasn't until she talked with my daughter having the same issues she had at the same age, that I realized she was serious.


I wish I had HOURS to talk more. We have been through it all. And it is great! PLEASE, BOTH of you, feel FREE to send me private messages. I will get to them when I can. I may miss something on this forum.

Also, I have read more of the entire thread and I was a bit too harsh in the accusations. It seems to me that you guys are more fair about this.

You guys need to talk. You guys need to be prepared for lots of desires and feelings to come out that you are ashamed to admit. It HAS to come out. It just has to. Every bit of it. However long it takes.

If this is what you TRULY BOTH want, and your relationship is good in other ways, I feel confidant that it is reasonably possible for this to work out well for both of you. You guys can end up cuddling in tears of having thousands of pounds of weight you don't even know you have lifted off your chest, and (here is the magic part): Your partner is the only one who truly understands and gets it.

Whatever it takes. Totally open and honest. Passwords. Texts. Emails. Everything. There shouldn't have been secrets. If there are, then both of you stop now. You are going to need an even HIGHER level of openess. To BOTH of you: Never, ever, ever, ever, do or say, or even think anything you would not want the other to do. Demand it from each other.

Baby steps in action. Be prepared for minor setbacks. When they come, all of that strong talking, turning the tables, empathy, etc. will be needed so that you can both talk through them. 

Lastly, and this is my OPINION, take it for what it is worth: No double standards. Ever. No one is EVER allowed to do something the other isn't. Period. No exceptions. This should always, 100% be about you two enjoying each other, and being able to come together in a new way that many couldn't understand. It isn't their business. It is yours.

Best of luck to both of you. Be fair to each other. Treat each other as equals. And for GOD SAKE'S, slow down!


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

LoveLonely, what types of desires would I be ashamed of? I ask because you have already been there and I have no idea what else will pop in my head. I wish it would just stay like it is, and even that seems dangerous.

The best part is the reconnection afterwards. The weeks of talking about it with each other like newlyweds. I think there is a bit of boredom, because it's hard to sit there for hours and talk about your sex life when there isn't anything to talk about. Either way, the reconnection feels like a desperate bond for me. Like, I want to totally take her back and make her all mine. Her talk to me afterwards, about me being just hers and noone satisfies her the same.... only makes me want the thrill again. The actual experience doesn't compare to the reconnection. But that may be an insecurity issue or something.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Trey, I tried to like your posts, but my browser isn't compatible or something. Either way, I will try to update if something negative happens. Maybe this is a trainwreck waiting to happen.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Trey, I tried to like your posts, but my browser isn't compatible or something. Either way, I will try to update if something negative happens. Maybe this is a trainwreck waiting to happen.


Yeah, you see what we are talking about! Your doing good as far as playing with fire. Stick to your boundaries. I suspect if you keep doing it, her taste and thirst for the ladies will continue to grow. If you can somehow manage to keep it a thing that the both of you share, then you have done the best you could considering the situation.

The "reconnection" phase sounds hot!


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

Coldie said:


> LoveLonely, what types of desires would I be ashamed of? I ask because you have already been there and I have no idea what else will pop in my head. I wish it would just stay like it is, and even that seems dangerous.


I will only respond to the part of this post I feel confidant in fully understanding and answering. As to answer part of your question: I don't know, and neither do you. But whatever feelings come up, you HAVE to examine them. Her too, btw. And realize, that, no matter what the feelings are, in the abstract they are no different that what every single rational, healthy couple must deal with in everything else:

You are both free individuals. You must respect each others' right to want whatever they want out of a partner. If you sincerely need something, you have a right to demand it in a relationship. BUT, (big but here) you don't have a right to expect it from the other person. It is negotiation. An ungly word but the truth. If the two can agree in the negotiation, then all is well. The demand or need was met, and no one's rights were violated. Same goes for her. If she NEEDS something, she needs it. You are not obligated to provide it. But if you WANT to provide it, then again, two agreed in the negotiation, then all is well. The demand or need was met, and no one's rights were violated. In a nutshell, this is the template for EVERYTHING in a relationship: careers, chores, sex, dishes, choice of clothes, hobbies, etc. everything.

For me, AS AN INDIVIDUAL (not saying everyone is the same way), I will tell you the most difficult, and shame full (at least early on) part of all of this was: in this unique relationship with the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, I realized that I could not deal with the feelings of jealousy, wonder, worry, pain, etc. ...the ironic cruelty...the wrongfulness of the ubniverse punishing me, etc.. of her having any hypothetical potential interest in women, and know that she would not be interested in pursuing that with me. That doesn't make me a bad person. That doesn't make me a tyrant. That makes me human. THAT, in and of itself, was yet ANOTHER pandoras box. I now had my needs and demands (that I didn't even know I had until being put in this situation). I have a right to demand whatever I need in a relationship. She too has rights and demands. Negotiation. Like I said, this can either DESTROY you two, or make you even stronger than you thought possible. 

For us? It made us even stronger than I thought possible. But, that was just ONE issue. There could be thousands. And neither of you know what those issues will be until you:

1. Have time to let feelings come out
2. Talk about them
3. Talk about the OTHER feelings that come up from talking
4. Let all NEW feelings come out later
5. Talk about them TOO.
6. Start to feel like issues won't stop coming up.
7. Talk about them too.
8. Etc.

And the entire time, examine what bothers the both of you. Talk about it. Figure it out. Help the other empathize. Turn the tables.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

In other words, talk about marriage.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm sorry, but some of these responses on this forum are frankly so hostile and judgmental I can't help wondering if they are really directed at the OP, or themselves. Just because YOU wouldn't like to do something, doesn't mean that other people shouldn't.

I also can't understand why people would be convert to Islam, change their gender, or be Yankees fans, but to each his own. It should be the same with threesomes.



6301 said:


> Second. She lied to you for 15 years. She should have told you before you got married. How do you think she would handle it if you told her after 15 years that you were Bi?


The OP already responded to that, but I am curious why so many people want that to be a "lie" even though Coldie didn't say anything of the sort. 



> _What I don't understand is where she has the right to have sex with another woman just because she has the urge._


She has every right to do anything that her and her husband mutually agree to. Isn't that enough? Maybe it offends your religion or something, but they might not follow your particular religion. 



tulsy said:


> I think your wife is being rather selfish here, and then pinning it on you like she's doing you a favor. It's common for woman to assume all men want a 3 way with 2 chicks, but not every guy wants to actually do this with his wife...


True, not every guy wants to do this with his wife. But a huge amount of them do. In fact, I'm fairly confident that *most* of them would like to, at least once. But all that is irrelevant because the only thing that's important is if the OP wants to do it or not. It should be as simple as that.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Fire indeed.
> 
> I absolutely have no desire to have sex with women at all. In all 3 experiences I have not achieved a full erection until later than night with my wife. Obviously my wife is there, so she sees it herself. Whether it be oral or her pushing my penis inside the other women, then pulling it out to taste the woman off my penis, I have at most been 50% erect. I am sorry if that is too many details, but I want to clarify that .


 No doubt you only at half staff because you aren't allowed to have an orgasm. I got a feeling that your wife does have them with the OW but doesn't tell you.

So let me ask this. What's the sense in having a threesome when no one is allowed to cum? Your not allowed and she fake hers as she claims.

It's like having a veggie garden and you throw out the plants and tend to the weeds. 

If I were you I would fake an orgasm the next time your in a threesome and see how your wife reacts. If she gets pissed, tell her isn't that what were supposed to do?

Your asking for more problems that you could handle and I got news for you. You have a 14 year old daughter who is only going to be a kid just once in her life just like all of us so how about cooling it with her and let her at least believe that she comes from a normal family because the way you two are going, sooner or later that poor kid is going to find out and your going to have to do some serious explaining.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I usually dislike it when people start replies with something along the lines of "my ex wife did something similar", so I apologize in advance...

About 3-4 years before my ex left me, our sex life had devolved into once a week duty sex. Nothing I did did anything for her. We brought toys into the equation for the first time, and she enjoyed that. A little too much. After while, I was being used as the prop, not the toys. She had the urge to get off, but probably didn't want to get caught while I was in the house, so she'd involve me. But it was all about her, and her toys, and I still got duty sex, while she got off multiple times. She told me I was lucky her libido had increased, if I ever remarked about how into her toys she was. 

Not much longer after this started, she mentioned to me, out of the blue, that she would be okay if I were to get BJ's from other women. This was completely out of left field. She did not give me BJ's, and hadn't for probably about 4 years by that point.

I told a close female friend of mine what she had said to me, and she replied "she's just not that into you". BAM.

This was the true beginning of the end for us, but I hung on until she was the one who left (for another man). I stuck around because I loved her, and she loved me, though the attraction was no longer there for her. I accepted it, realized we likely wouldn't be together into old age, but we had a good life outside of the bedroom.

I'm seeing an awful lot of similarities here, OP. As Faithful, and several others here, have suggested, "she's just not that into you" anymore. Bisexuality, I believe, is her "out", and making it a 3-some (to start...) is also convenient. She gets to be with somebody else, which she obviously wants desperately, but probably couldn't live with the guilt of cheating, so she involves you. And tells you should feel lucky. I'm sure my ex wife probably thought the same thing, about how lucky I should be to have a wife who lets me get BJ's from other women.

Her "rules" of you not being able to finish are ludicrous, if you ask me. How one person would be okay with her husband penetrating another woman, then taking it out and TASTING HER JUICES, but not allowing you to finish? Whaaaaaa? THAT is what crosses the line at intimacy with another person?

I just don't get where she's coming from. As Faithful said, she's bisexual, yet is completely monogamous. Granted, she had her experiences in the past, as your wife apparently did not, but so what? I never had sex with a redhead, an Amazon woman, or another guy, and that certainly doesn't give me the right to announce after x-number years of marriage that I would like to explore any of that.

"Honey, I've always been attracted to Asian midgets who smoke pipes, and it's killing me. I'd really like to explore that, would you be okay if I had sex with a pipe-smoking Asian midget if you were there? I'd rather you didn't orgasm, though. That's for US, baby."





Coldie said:


> Fire indeed.
> 
> I absolutely have no desire to have sex with women at all. In all 3 experiences I have not achieved a full erection until later than night with my wife. Obviously my wife is there, so she sees it herself. Whether it be oral or her pushing my penis inside the other women, then pulling it out to taste the woman off my penis, I have at most been 50% erect. I am sorry if that is too many details, but I want to clarify that although its flattering to see a woman okay with me penetrating them or being into me enough to want to have oral sex with me, while my wife helps, I only have eyes for my wife. The "prop" thing Faithful mentioned, is exactly right. She was using it as a way to explain how crappy the third woman would feel, but that isn't something I care about. That's the third woman's choice, I will not kiss her or lead her to believe otherwise. But the "prop" idealogy is accurate. She has probably at some point in her life felt that or discussed that with a previous partner, becaue it's very unique insight from someone who has lived that lifestyle. And that isn't an insult Faithful, it was a compliment. As much as we have bickered, there have been some things you've said that were very accurate.
> 
> And the bored in bed also has a bit of truth to it. We do use toys, we do get creative, role play, have long sessions, etc. It wouldn't be the first time we got bored and tried to spice things up.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

My head hurts.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

alexm said:


> I usually dislike it when people start replies with something along the lines of "my ex wife did something similar", so I apologize in advance...
> 
> About 3-4 years before my ex left me, our sex life had devolved into once a week duty sex. Nothing I did did anything for her. We brought toys into the equation for the first time, and she enjoyed that. A little too much. After while, I was being used as the prop, not the toys. She had the urge to get off, but probably didn't want to get caught while I was in the house, so she'd involve me. But it was all about her, and her toys, and I still got duty sex, while she got off multiple times. She told me I was lucky her libido had increased, if I ever remarked about how into her toys she was.
> 
> ...


So you think her being bisexual is an "out"? I don't see the signs yet.

As far as the multiple people saying that me not being able to orgasm is a big deal, I just don't feel that. I had girlfriends prior to my wife and did the exact same thing. I honestly do not want to share that moment with random strange women, or even women I am just dating. Maybe that's why my wife is okay with this? If I was only interested in having sex with random women and cumming all over the place, she wouldn't feel secure enough to share me to begin with?

Or maybe this is her out. But what should I do, stop her from having an out and force her to love me? Should I ride it out and see if it really is an out? I love my wife more than anything in the world but I am not going to force any person to be with me, or father them and make their decisions. I feel that will only delay her "out" correct? I am still fairly young and decent enough looking to find my real soulmate who doesn't want an out. Or am I just being totally naive. I read your story and I don't feel any of the things you felt. There are absolutely some similarities but we have hung out more and talked in the last 3 months than we have in the last 3 years.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

coldie...what do YOU really want? It is unclear from your messages.

If I had to make a guess, I would say you want your wife to only want you, as you really only want her. 

But since you fear she might leave you if you don't go along with her on the threesomes, you do it to appease her.

If that is accurate, then what you REALLY want is not what is currently happening.

I would say your best move now is to tell her what you REALLY want without fear that shutting down her threesomes will make her leave you.

Because if it would make her leave you if you shut it down, then you have your answer anyway.

You sound like a spouse who has been coerced into group sex by your spouse's selfishness.

There really is no difference between her saying "I want to have sex with other women" than there is in her saying "I want to have sex with other men".

And I don't think YOU want to have sex with other people. So it is simply a selfish act on her part and she is likely quite fine with being that selfish.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Coldie said:


> So you think her being bisexual is an "out"? I don't see the signs yet.
> 
> *I mean, it's a (legitimate) excuse for her to use because she wants sex with other people.
> 
> ...


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Coldie said:


> Like, what are you saying? Leave her? Stop the threesomes? Make her understand that being bisexual doesn't mean we have sex with women? I think if I said lets stop, I think we'd transition back into our old life, yet without that "thrill." Is she bicurious now? No, she is absolutely bi. She has definitely confirmed it is not something she just thought would be fun, she loves feeling a woman. But does she love it enough to keep doing it? I don't think so. The fact I am with her keeps her very level headed because she can't have her cake and eat it too, she has always been very jealous. I've never even been to a strip club.... and now I see nude women in my bed? There are cons to her pros, and I absolutely will not allow her to have a relationship without me around. She insists she has no desire to have a lesbian relationship, and it literally turns her off to not be able to share and have me with her.
> 
> That's where I'm at.


I don't understand this. I've been married to my wife for over 20 years. If you stopped the threesomes you would lose that "thrill?" I haven't lost that "thrill" for my wife and she hasn't lost it for me because we continually keep our relationship fresh. We keep growing and evolving TOGETHER. We don't need to bring a third person into our relationship in order to have a thrill. You said that you see no signs of your wife using this as an out? I think you just flashed a huge sign right there. Bisexuality does not equal promiscuity.

I also find it very interesting that you continually state what your wife has said she is feeling and are using it to reassure yourself. What you need to understand is that this is how she feels TODAY. It is not how she is going to feel TOMORROW or a month from now or three months from now. Is what she is feeling the same as what she felt yesterday? Or a month ago? Or a year ago? Her feelings are changing and therefore her attitudes will change as well. Relationships can not survive on just love no matter what the Hollywood movie producers say. You also have to have trust and respect. Do you trust her? It doesn't seem so based on your posts. Do you respect her? I'd say its more like you fear her, well at least you fear that she might leave you. Does she trust you? Based on what you've written I'm not confident of that. Does she respect you. My answer would be absolutely not. In general women cannot respect their partner if their partner shares them with someone else. 

I have known couples that "experimented with others in their sex lives. Most relationships fell apart before too long for one reason or another. The one couple that stayed together (as far as I know) had no children and were both financially well off enough to have comfortable separate lives. They also had a very strong relationship and sex life before they started experimenting and both were extremely confident self assured individuals. I'm not seeing that from either you or your wife. Tread carefully.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

bfree said:


> If you stopped the threesomes you would lose that "thrill?" I haven't lost that "thrill" for my wife and she hasn't lost it for me because we continually keep our relationship fresh. We keep growing and evolving TOGETHER. We don't need to bring a third person into our relationship in order to have a thrill.


That's great for you two, but that doesn't mean that everyone else will only be happy if they follow your standards. 



> I have known couples that "experimented with others in their sex lives. Most relationships fell apart before too long for one reason or another.


That's certainly true since most relationships fail *period*, whether they are monogamous, polyamorous, or anything in between.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Thesus....your last point is a great one. But that is exactly why people, if they want to stay married, should avoid *additional* risks to marriage. This husband wasn't sure how he was feeling about all of this and wanted to hear some feedback. He was ambiguous at best, and feeling hurt and lost at worst. Other posters confirmed they would be feeling this way also. What exactly do you think the harm has been in the advice he has been given here? Are you saying there is harm in the advice "yeah, sounds like you aren't really down for this and therefore, maybe stop the threesomes?"


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## loving1 (Aug 5, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm bi-sexual. There is no reason a bi-sexual person cannot be monogamous. If you are having fun with threesomes, then great. But just know that there's no reason that just because she is bi-sexual that this means she "must" sleep with women. She just wants to. I guess if you feel "lucky" that your wife wants to sleep with other people...


Ditto for me. It really irks me when I hear about women making these grand announcements that they are bisexual and simply must sleep with other women now. It's like a socially acceptable way for women that have checked out to find someone new and their husbands are expected to be "happy" about it because it's so "hot".

Blaugh.

My husband and I have discussed getting into the mix with another, but if this ever happened (and it most likely won't) it would be as partners and not purely my fantasy fulfillment while I reassure him that I'm faking it and he gets lucky enough to rub up against someone for a while. This whole situation seems really off to me.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Theseus said:


> That's great for you two, but that doesn't mean that everyone else will only be happy if they follow your standards.
> 
> *I echo the sentiments that have been expressed by many experts, relationship professionals and my first hand experience working with couples. I welcome your input and ask that you disclose your experience as well.*
> 
> ...


Theseus, your proclivities are well documented. You have already stated that you are interested in sharing your wife with another man or men. I believe that does tend to influence your advice and the OP should be made aware of your "inclinations."


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

Coldie said:


> Has anyone else went through this type of thing? Should I stop the threesomes or continue on and just enjoy the experiences? For for the record, I have made it clear I am not a cuckold, I do not have any desire to ever add a man to a threesome. For me, this is an absolute boundary and I am not okay with it.


I read through this and let it sink in for a while before I trusted my response...

Your wife is taking advantage of you. She wants to indulge in her sexual dalliances by 'buying' you off with a fantasy of getting to "play" with another woman. 

So, she wanted to indulge fantasies and find some new excitement. As if you can EVER put the genie back in the bottle. You can't. 

You were true to her. She was true to you. Now neither of you are. And she got you to be untrue at her urging, just so you didn't have any "high moral ground". She could have (and maybe did or will) have her own affairs you know nothing about, and maybe she thinks it's now "ok", since you've been in bed with another (more than one) woman. 

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. That one is clear. You can't unspeak a word, you can't unsee what you've seen, and you can't unact history. But for now, I think it's time you and her had this "where do we go" conversation. Obviously, she wanted to stray off into her own fantasyland and she got you to not object and not complain by imposing restrictions that have no real meaning. So, I think she thinks she's in the clear. She gets to have you, be supported, get affection, get her home and life and family AND get to indulge her fantasies. If it were another man, you'd probably have been out the door - but there is no actual difference just because it's a woman, other than you might find the woman exciting. And it seems to me you've recognized that, after the fact. 

What's the next boundary to break, if there are any?


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## pinotnoir (Jul 13, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Has anyone else went through this type of thing?


I could only wish...


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

bfree said:


> I disagree with this statement. Statistically many quote the approx. 50% divorce rate however that is debatable on several fronts. I do not agree that most long term relationships fail


I didn't say marriage, I said relationships. Few people end up marrying the very first person they have a relationship with (much less stay together for life, so, by the numbers, most relationships do fail. An overwhelming number do. 



> _Theseus, your proclivities are well documented. You have already stated that you are interested in sharing your wife with another man or men. I believe that does tend to influence your advice and the OP should be made aware of your "inclinations."_


Wow, more gutter tactics. Someone else who decides to attack me instead of my arguments (and "well documented"? lol!!! Are we in court?). So does Faithful Wife's inclincations toward bisexuality taint her advice as well? And BTW, you do realize there is a difference between fantasy and reality right?

So much for your statement "I welcome your input and ask that you disclose your experience as well."


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

So, I spoke with my wife. Not only did I speak with her, I let her browse this entire thread so she could also take in what has been said about her, us, and our situation. She laughed a lot.

In going back through the thread I noticed that maybe I wasn't clear about certain issues. The most important being, my wife is shy and passive. Does that mean she sits at home in a corner and listens to whatever she is told? Absolutely not, she is a professor in sociology and teaches at the local university. In other words, she isn't some uneducated woman that sits at home watchng porn and decides she is bisexual for fun (she laughed at that idea). She also is a pleaser and the least manipulative person I have ever met. 

Since we both know her sexual situation (she isn't easy to make orgasm -- even when she plays with herself) and that at times it will take her 30 minutes to orgasm from oral, with no tv, no noise, nothing that throws her mind off at all. There are times she doesn't want to even feel my head move back and forth because it takes her mind off the orgasm. During the threesomes, the women are doing everything that she wouldn't want done, from head movement to fingering hard, to stop giving attention to the clit and licking inside her hole (because unlike her husband, they haven't talked about what they enjoy most for the last 15 years). She doesn't orgasm like this, but she does appreciate them trying. If I whisper to her to orgasm so the other woman feels good about herself, on cue, she will orgasm. Or vice versa. We both know better. She laughed at the idea of people assuming she was really orgasming, because if you can't take the husband's (mine) words at face value, then all your advice is based off your own assumptions, rather than what you are being told. She found that funny. She also wanted me to mention that her getting oral is cute, but she is bisexual because she enjoys the pleasing, especially to another beautiful woman. Does she have to please other women just because she is bisexual? No. But our decision was mutual. I also wouldn't mind in the least if she actually orgasmed with another woman, it doesn't threaten me. However, being that the other women do not communicate or know exactly what my wife wants, I don't see it as possible. If it was, I wouldn't mind. Anyone assuming she is lying about faking it, is basing that assumption off their own experience and not from what they are gathering from the information I have given them. If she really had an orgasm, my wife and I would both be okay with that.

My wife didn't lie for 15 years, which keeps being mentioned. My wife was normal, she thought. As a young girl she was attracted to women but knew that was taboo. She told herself she would finish school, find a husband, have kids, and live happily ever after. It wasn't until a few years ago she mentioned she may feel bi-curious at times, but since she never had any real experiences with women, I felt it was more of how an artist appreciates the beauty of a person, non sexual. She didn't use her bisexuality to have sex with another person, because she told me years prior to having the talk with my daughter, and neither I nor her, brought up threesomes. It was something I didn't take serious. After the conversation with my daughter, years later, I realized it wasn't something she was just saying, but it was something she felt serious enough about that she would console my daughter by letting her know she also had feelings of being bisexual. I took that very serious. At that point, we both sat down and discussed what we would and wouldn't be okay with. At no point did she force the issue of threesomes on me, or did I sit back and suck my thumb while she talked about forcing me to let another woman in our bedroom. We talked and communicated and both decided what was best for us. 

Now, does that mean I didn't second guess my own decision? Of course I did, that's why I was here. I wanted to hear what other couples, possibly in my situation had done themselves. Why did I second guess? It wasn't because anything I experienced, it was because of everything I was hearing, from local friends, whose relationships they were in were much worse off than mine. Divorced friends telling me this won't end well. So I decided to come to a place where I thought I would possibly get advice from someone more in my situation.

Another tid bit of information that may help those making assumptions about our relationship or bedroom spark. My first reply on this forum was to the thread, "How many times did you have sex in 2013." I guess it was an end of the year thread. I honestly answered, 775. We have both set aside 20 to 30 minutes when we wake up and go to bed, to make sure we stop and appreciate each other. Like waking up in the morning to jog so your heart is healthy, we wake up and spend time together, so our marriage is healthy. We do the same before bed. The number is a bit higher than twice a day because there have been times where we sneak a midday, or .... in the last few months, had a threesome. 

If none of the new information changes anything, I will take heed to your advice and talk with my wife about possibly slowing down some. Although I do not feel we moved fast, I don't want to keep making bad decisions.

Thanks everyone.


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Coldie said:


> So, I spoke with my wife. Not only did I speak with her, I let her browse this entire thread so she could also take in what has been said about her, us, and our situation. She laughed a lot.
> 
> In going back through the thread I noticed that maybe I wasn't clear about certain issues. The most important being, my wife is shy and passive. Does that mean she sits at home in a corner and listens to whatever she is told? Absolutely not, she is a professor in sociology and teaches at the local university. In other words, she isn't some uneducated woman that sits at home watchng porn and decides she is bisexual for fun (she laughed at that idea). She also is a pleaser and the least manipulative person I have ever met.
> 
> ...


I am not sure if this situation could have been handled any better.

Open communication.

Obviously you did not do this because your sex life was failing and you were trying to create something better (775?? Are you kidding me??)

You did this so she could explore, actually you could explore together, her sexuality.

Your relationship will be stronger because of it. And the memories created....well I can only imagine.

Cheers to you both


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Cyclist said:


> I am not sure if this situation could have been handled any better.
> 
> Open communication.
> 
> ...


This is the thought process that lead me to where I am at now, almost exactly. But I have never seen or heard this from anyone surrounding us, so I came here. I didn't realize people would read my experience and conclude that my wife was using me. I never expected that response at all.

The neat part is, her seeing that people feel she is the one using me, made her feel better about the idea of experiencing a threesome and me not orgasming. She didn't realize that people would consider that pointless to even have a threesome if I couldn't orgasm. This makes her appreciate me more, and also calmed her own insecurities a bit. So, technically, the advice helped her, rather than me. She thought she would be seen as a cuckold, someone sharing her husband, and weak minded to share her husband so she can experience a female and see how it made her feel. Although we talked about it together, we both have our own minor insecurities, hers was, how the world will view her for letting another woman in her bedroom. Mine was, will this lead to her wanting a man in the bedroom. This thread helped with hers a lot. Mine is more of a boundary issue, if the man thing comes up, she will know my boundary and I also do not feel I should be "grateful."

Correct?


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Coldie said:


> This is the thought process that lead me to where I am at now, almost exactly. But I have never seen or heard this from anyone surrounding us, so I came here. I didn't realize people would read my experience and conclude that my wife was using me. I never expected that response at all.
> 
> The neat part is, her seeing that people feel she is the one using me, made her feel better about the idea of experiencing a threesome and me not orgasming. She didn't realize that people would consider that pointless to even have a threesome if I couldn't orgasm. This makes her appreciate me more, and also calmed her own insecurities a bit. So, technically, the advice helped her, rather than me. She thought she would be seen as a cuckold, someone sharing her husband, and weak minded to share her husband so she can experience a female and see how it made her feel. Although we talked about it together, we both have our own minor insecurities, hers was, how the world will view her for letting another woman in her bedroom. Mine was, will this lead to her wanting a man in the bedroom. This thread helped with hers a lot. Mine is more of a boundary issue, if the man thing comes up, she will know my boundary and I also do not feel I should be "grateful."
> 
> Correct?


I think your handling it well.

Of course you both have insecurities. Its a new situation. The communication you have is admirable.

Ive been in multiple 3 somes and rarely had an orgasm also. People do not realize there is a lot going on. Especially when its new. There is a lot to handle mentally. 

keep the hard boundaries set and continue to communicate and you will be fine. As you get more comfortable the sex will get better. Especially if you continue with the same partner.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

You can only ever get feedback based upon what you have to say, and how you go about saying it.

And often, therein lies the problem.

It isn't clear that you have one, a problem I mean ... and that was the premise most of the respondents were posting under.

What I've gathered based on your posts is that your marriage wasn't terribly exciting ... and now it is ... and both of you are happy and more dialed into one another.

Win/win as I see it. No?

So ... tread carefully and keep talking.

Boom! Another satisfied customer.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Just make sure you get a BJ from one of the other women once in a while. Okay?

P.S. Actually, get a double BJ from your wife and the OW.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Deejo said:


> You can only ever get feedback based upon what you have to say, and how you go about saying it.
> 
> And often, therein lies the problem.
> 
> ...


Thank you Deejo. I still have those insecurities and the grateful thing was our only real argument. I think because I feel it makes me feel "guilty" for my boundary.

Either way, the perspective of her using me has actually changed her own thought process. That was totally an accident.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

pinotnoir said:


> I could only wish...


Definately better than the multi-year sexless option.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Coldie said:


> Thank you Deejo. I still have those insecurities and the grateful thing was our only real argument. I think because I feel it makes me feel "guilty" for my boundary.
> 
> Either way, the perspective of her using me has actually changed her own thought process. That was totally an accident.


You have definately Alpha'd up your position, considering this walk over in the fires of Hades!

Be careful, she can still submit painfully in a cuckhold position.

Just joking. Sounds like currently you guys are having fun, and there is a way of going about it, which should minimize much of the dangers of it.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

pinotnoir said:


> I could only wish...


Be careful what you wish for.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> Be careful what you wish for.


Well, If she just HAS to cheat on you, this has to be one of the least damaging options, up front.


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## *needaunderstand* (Jun 11, 2012)

all I'm getting is that coldie is so in love with his wife, he doesn't care about what their doing, as long as they do it together. I think he is just worried that one day he wont be included in it. Which is sad for him. Truth is, if she likes tasting a woman off of your penis, then she's more into women. I think she includes you because she feels obligated but limits your involvement because she is very self absorbed, and what's hers is hers. I wouldn't doubt that she has an openly dominant personality. I think you fear that if you give her an ultimatum then you will lose this person you love so much. Sadly it has gone to far. I hope things turn out good for you in the end. Because the only one if feeling hanging above the fire is you. She's getting what she wants and the third knows what their getting into with a married couple. Really worry is she brings up swinging with couples and adding a fourth
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

*needaunderstand* said:


> all I'm getting is that coldie is so in love with his wife, he doesn't care about what their doing, as long as they do it together. I think he is just worried that one day he wont be included in it. Which is sad for him. Truth is, if she likes tasting a woman off of your penis, then she's more into women. I think she includes you because she feels obligated but limits your involvement because she is very self absorbed, and what's hers is hers. I wouldn't doubt that she has an openly dominant personality. I think you fear that if you give her an ultimatum then you will lose this person you love so much. Sadly it has gone to far. I hope things turn out good for you in the end. Because the only one if feeling hanging above the fire is you. She's getting what she wants and the third knows what their getting into with a married couple. Really worry is she brings up swinging with couples and adding a fourth
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A lot of this is pretty accurate but she has an openly passive personality. I am worried that it's very possible one day I wouldn't be included or that she will feel I owe her, and in return, I will offer to balance the situation by having a threesome with a guy (but like you have noticed, her eating the girls juices off my penis, she seems to really like women -- not men). Not because she asks, but because she is smart and knows how to make me feel guilty. Although I would never offer that, the thought scares me. Not because of anything I am experiencing, but because of what people tell me.

At this point I do not want to give anything up or give her any ultimatums because the damage is done. If later she wanted me to feel guilty, she already has the ammunition. For now, we will continue to move slow and talk about our hard boundaries after each experience.


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

Not sure how relevant you will find my experience, but here goes.

My first marriage was to my "high school sweetheart", together since the beginning of our sophomore year, married shortly out of high school and pregnant with my first son. At just about 7 years together (7 year itch, eh?), she revealed that she was "suddenly" bi-curious. This after years of her cringing and being dramatically "sick" anytime lesbians were shown on tv, etc. 

I struggled with it for some time, but much as you say, I wasn't in her life to father her or keep her from doing things. However, in our situation, she wanted to experience a woman by herself, and "maybe" we'd do something all together. I was in the Navy at the time, and you can imagine what all my sailor "buddies" gave for helpful advice on the situation. After about a month, I took off my ring, told her it was over but I wasn't terribly interested in rushing paperwork or getting away from her.

She continued pursuing women, with no success (to my knowledge). When I started the paperwork process, and started dating on my own (a bit more complicated here, but for the purposes of our discussion irrelevant), she suddenly wanted what we had back, and tried very hard to keep me. In the end, it was no deal. 

She now lives a 100% exclusive lesbian lifestyle, for the better part of the past decade. She has tried to have additional children with a partner (the relationship failed), and her current partner just had a baby last year. She now says she was "born" a lesbian and just didn't know it fully.

Contrast that with my current wife of 10+ years now (together 11). She told me from the outset that she liked women, but never wanted to be with JUST women. After about 5years together we had a single threesome that barely amounted to more than some petting and kissing. Some insecurities cropped up out of it (from both of us), and we haven't duplicated the experience. I don't, however, feel that it is a black mark, just an experience we had that wasn't all that great. 

My advice to you: stop. One thing that seems to be prevalent on this board is the advice that if something feels off, it's because IT IS. By dint of the fact you've come here, you feel something isn't right with the situation. It sounds like you've got a great life, with a great wife, and a fairly vigorous/satisfying sex life WITHOUT the 3rd parties. You risk ALL of that by bringing other people into your intimate times. That is not to say that it HAS to end badly, just that YOU are introducing a significant risk. Sexual experiences have lasting hormonal, therefore emotional impacts, not just on your wife, but YOU as well. While neither of you may be orgasming, you ARE bonding with people outside the marriage. Consider the relatively meager "gains" to your life; and the relative risks that you are taking. This cost/reward profile doesn't seem to add up to the choices you are making?


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

No real issues so far. Things have slowed down and our experiences seemed to bond us more than we ever have been. Even the bad experiences (the third turned us off --- learning that some women actually do smell like all the jokes I've heard my whole life) have brought us closer together. She is getting more picky and is learning things about women she didn't know. She has now said she would rather lick my *ss than most of these girls areas. She didn't realize how groomed and cleaned I really was. That's a plus, because I take good care of myself, and women, who are supposed to be totally taken care of, have smell issues, while my *ss doesn't. 

Man +1

She did say for the first time that she feels at this point in her life she isn't with me because of me being a guy, it's who I am and how I make her feel. She is attracted to the person, not the gender. 

So far no regrets and we've narrowed down who we play with. The communication has also dropped, as we both now see the third strictly as a sex toy.


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## hippiechick441 (Feb 19, 2014)

I am a married bisexual woman and I think you guys are inspirational :smthumbup: I think it is so great and strengthening and loving that you let your wife explore her sexuality and that you are there to experience and let it work for both of yall also This is one admirable hubby right here!


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