# My defensiveness is serioulsy hurting us...



## needtochange (Oct 5, 2008)

My wife and I have been married for 9 months now. Over the course of the year when we get into an argument I tend to get defensive and instead apologizing begin endlessly explaining why I did something. There have been times when my wife came to me with concerns about a comment I had made about job searching and location (I am nearing the end of an assignment and trying to consider job opportunities in the same company as part of a forced move developmental program) but instead of apologizing right away for my insensitivity to the stress associated with moving and job hunting (not to mention my wife is graduating from grad school in Dec at the time of the move) I try to explain why I did that and that just backfires. 

I know for sure my wife wants me to stop being defensive (and have known for a long time) and I have made promises to change that behaviour but have made myself a liar since I have not been able to change. I want to change that behaviour very badly. Now my wife doesn't believe that I will change and in fact says she hates me, doesn't love me, wants someone else...I don't know what to do...i am going to talk to a marriage councelor but wanted to see if anyone had advice on how to overcome defensiveness.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

The next time you have an argument, SHUT UP. Don't say anything. Stop and consider. Why is she upset? I found these "rules" in another forum and they make a lot of sense: 1) only respond to a question, not a statement. 2) answer a direct question but do not elaborate. Period. 3) if 1&2 don't work, then rule 3) ask: "What would you like me to do right now?" That's it. No extraneous conversation, no discussion, no defensive attitude or response. She only says she hates you and wants someone else only to get to you. Don't let her. Call her bluff, ask if she wants a divorce. But do it CALMLY! Do NOT have an attitude. That's what infuriates her (or anyone).


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

dcrim said:


> The next time you have an argument, SHUT UP. Don't say anything. Stop and consider. Why is she upset? I found these "rules" in another forum and they make a lot of sense: 1) only respond to a question, not a statement. 2) answer a direct question but do not elaborate. Period. 3) if 1&2 don't work, then rule 3) ask: "What would you like me to do right now?" That's it. No extraneous conversation, no discussion, no defensive attitude or response. She only says she hates you and wants someone else only to get to you. Don't let her. Call her bluff, ask if she wants a divorce. But do it CALMLY! Do NOT have an attitude. That's what infuriates her (or anyone).


:iagree:

draconis


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## needtochange (Oct 5, 2008)

Thanks. I will try this out and see what happens.


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## needtochange (Oct 5, 2008)

I have used # 3 before but that seems make things worse. SHe might say something like, "What I want you to do is go pack up all your stuff and leave and don't come back."
I might also add that I have moved into the guest bedroom at her request. 
Marriage is much more difficult than I thought it would be.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

needtochange said:


> I have used # 3 before but that seems make things worse. SHe might say something like, "What I want you to do is go pack up all your stuff and leave and don't come back."
> I might also add that I have moved into the guest bedroom at her request.
> Marriage is much more difficult than I thought it would be.


Look at some of the long term success stories on the forums and how people have made marriage work.

draconis


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

needtochange said:


> I have used # 3 before but that seems make things worse. SHe might say something like, "What I want you to do is go pack up all your stuff and leave and don't come back."
> I might also add that I have moved into the guest bedroom at her request.
> Marriage is much more difficult than I thought it would be.


Tell her only if she'll sign the divorce papers without contest (I GUARANTEE that'll make her think twice!!). Otherwise, the only choice is to have the both of you grow together. Communicate. Calmly. No shouting or screaming. Rationally. Calmly (did I say that before?).


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

My H used to be extremely defensive when id come to him with concerns. I realized it was because he couldnt handle the guilt. he thought i was telling him to make him feel bad. and he felt helpless because i shot down everything he said. I especially hated it when he asked me what I wanted him to do.

so i told him was to act like it wasnt him that offended me. I told him to pretend i was complaining about someone else. So when you talk to her pretend it wasnt you that hurt her, pretend it was some other guy. 

Also, try not to think of it as she's blaming you. she just wants you to understand her. ask her how she is feeling. every time she brings up something you did ask her to keep elaborating on how that made her feel. Then just hug her and tell her you are sorry. Saying sorry doesnt mean you think you are wrong or guilty. it means you are sorry she feels that way and you wish she didnt. But keep asking her to elaborate. 

She could be completely wrong in what happened and what you did. but thats not the point. the point is getting her to think you understand how she feels.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

I know exactly how you feel, and what is MOST frustrating is when your "reasons" are perfectly legitimate, but she only hears them as "excuses" and gets madder. It feels like to her, it doesn't matter that you were late because the bank was being robbed and you were held at gunpoint. The net result is that you were late, and you were not accepting responsibility.

Sometimes I find that at least making an effort to take responsibility goes quite far, especially if thats what she wants anyway. The great tragedy of this approach though is that she's so convinced you won't take responsibility that when you do, she'll assume you are just telling her what she wants to hear.

I also want to know why it is that you have gone so far to placate her. Why did you move into the spare bedroom because she asked you to. It sounds though like you are too eager to defend yourself all the time, and that you feel you are always wrong. What is YOUR side of the story?

Do you assert yourself when you ARE right? I mean, do you call her out when SHE is wrong? If you always let her get away with it, she is NEVER going to accept any responsibility for her actions.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

I was thinking about this while i was cleaning out the garage...

Many times, it seems like she has already made up her mind long before the first word of discussion has been uttered. Sometimes you'll just have to think of it like miranda rights (anything you say can and will be used against you).

For me, the worst was when any defense out of my mouth resulted in one of 3 things.

1) Dismissal: doesn't matter if my excuse was rushing to the hospital to see a relative's dying breath; NOTHING justifies me being late.

2) Deflection: whatever you said seemed iron clad in your brain, yet somehow she's countered, and is even madder as the justification you thought was your salvation lies gasping on the floor. You are left wondering "how did I not anticipate that".

3) Extrapolation: my LEAST favorite here... whatever you say in your defense reminds her of other wrongdoings. Your being late today over traffic reminds her of the time a year ago when you didn't get her to her interview in time because you were playing video games and how you said that would never happen again, but now you've done it again and now you are a liar, and (the bomb here...) what ELSE are you lying about and what can't she trust you about? Now you are on the hook for two things and counting.

All of these come about because we men are like deers in headlights grasping at straws. We panic, and say anything to try and calm the storm, usually to no avail.

As has been said, only a few things can help avoid the above pitfalls. Asking "what do you want me to do" shifts the thinking FORWARD rather than backward. If she suggests something, at least she is acknowledging that amends can be made. Trying to fix the past usually ends up with you worst off. Accepting responsibility (since thats what she believes anyway) can help too.

To avoid making things worse, the advice earlier about only responding to questions, not getting bent about statements can help you too. Remember when you were younger and you figured out how to get your mom off your back? You're right, I shouldn't have put a spider on my sister. Yes it was mean. You're right, I was thoughtless. I'm sorry, I won't do it again.

The more fuel you throw on a fire, the hotter it burns. Professional firefighters know that if you deny a fire one of the fuels it needs to burn, it will extinguish.


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## NeverRight (Feb 26, 2012)

Chopblock et. al, great insight. I especially love the extrapolation bit -- I have far too frequently dealt with that one. There is nothing worse than arguing about something that never actually happened or that is perceived to have possibly happened. 

Blanca -- you word things exactly as I perceive my wife wants them to go down. I guess my problem is that I have a need to try to understand a problem before I can fix it. Let's face it, critical thinking doesn't apply to relationships and you are effectively working to fix the symptom rather than the problem...because there very well could not be a problem defined that she is willing to look at that involves her. It's quite a helpless feeling though...

I have one to throw at everyone: women instinctively want men to understand how they feel and respond without being told and, in that way, they feel loved. My wife gets very upset about the intent that the was communicating that apparently I didn't understand -- but she NEVER EVER acknowledges my intent when I am trying to right the ship an find out what she needs to feel better. She casts my efforts aside while, in the same breath, tells me that I am not doing anything to make the situation better. 

I guess all of the tips in these threads come down to the same thing: the man has to adjust AND be OK with adjusting. Never at any point should he expect to be recognized for his efforts, he should readily accept the blame by responding to her feelings at the time. Despite the fact that she may be not "blaming" you for something, she really is. I can almost guarantee that the next time a situation comes up and it is similar, it will become part of her ammunition in a battery that will surely annihilate. In that way, is ANY problem EVER actually solved? If you don't solve the problem and you placate for the sake of peace, don't you really only end up with a bunch of unresolved conflict that, like a volcano, is destined to erupt unannounced?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

NeverRight said:


> the man has to adjust AND be OK with adjusting. Never at any point should he expect to be recognized for his efforts, he should readily accept the blame by responding to her feelings at the time.


Be loving when you feel unloved, be respectful when you feel disrespected. Lead by example


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

needtochange said:


> I have made promises to change that behaviour but have made myself a liar since I have not been able to change. I want to change that behaviour very badly....I don't know what to do...i am going to talk to a marriage councelor but wanted to see if anyone had advice on how to overcome


You might want to consider going to church


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

NeverRight said:


> Chopblock et. al, great insight. I especially love the extrapolation bit -- I have far too frequently dealt with that one. There is nothing worse than arguing about something that never actually happened or that is perceived to have possibly happened.
> 
> Blanca -- you word things exactly as I perceive my wife wants them to go down. I guess my problem is that I have a need to try to understand a problem before I can fix it. Let's face it, critical thinking doesn't apply to relationships and you are effectively working to fix the symptom rather than the problem...because there very well could not be a problem defined that she is willing to look at that involves her. It's quite a helpless feeling though...
> 
> ...


You resurrect a thread from 4 years ago to make sweeping generalizations about women wanting men to read our minds? No I don't. I want you to actually listen when I am telling you what I want. I don't want to be placated and given a cookie. I want a man who actually hears what I am saying and acts accordingly. 

I am using "I" here because I don't speak for all women. I only speak for me.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

All you can do is show her through ACTIONS you are committed to stopping/changing the behavior.

Be proactive. Tell her you want to get marriage counselling to learn how to communicate better. It will be beneficial to both of you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh wow. I see this was from 2008. Mmmkay.


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