# Need some advise please...



## clouded_3953 (Oct 30, 2013)

Last night I met my H and kids at our cities Christmas parade. I was being very distant, which is how I have been acting since discovering TAM and realizing I need to let him go. He tried touching my butt and I pushed his hand away and then he tried to put his arm around me and I moved. 
He was a little taken back and asked what was wrong. I just answered by saying nothing. 

After the parade he and the kids were going to dinner. He asked if I was coming and I said no and started walking to my car. He called and asked again what was wrong, I told him that I just didn’t like to be around him anymore and that I’m realizing I am better without him. That I was working on myself and each day I’m discovering I deserve more and that I wasn’t going to be his doormat anymore. I told him that the only thing we needed to discuss from now forward, was our divorce. He continued to want to talk and kept asking why. I told him he needed to get off the phone with me and enjoy dinner with the kids. 

Then, I got the good old...(my name), please don’t this...text.
I didn’t respond. 
A couple hours later I text him and apologized for screaming at him earlier and that it wasn’t necessary. 

He text me saying that he was sorry for everything and that honestly he doesnt want to be here but he has to for his babies...(i took this as a manipulation tactic)

He responded with a bunch more BS and said that all he wanted was his family and marriage. I didn’t respond until this morning when I said, I wont be miss treated anymore. 

Then he responded with this....


I understand that but (my name) I never ment to to do that.. just like PC(pastor Chuck) said when we first got married. "If I treat you as good as I do my shoes then we will be just fine." And Im sorry I have been treating you like some payless bogo's but I swear if you give me this one more chance you will be treated like a Limited Edition only one pair made signed by MJ himself. In other words you will be my prized possession that I will put no one (even my mom) or anything above! I want a new life and I want it with you. Yes we have a up hill battle to climb but I know we can do it together.. 


Im trying to be strong...It's sooooo hard right now! I dont know how to respond to this. And I don't even know if I am handeling anything correctly. I feel like I need someone (TAM) to hold my hand through this whole process.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Tell him you're actually a pair of Manolo Blahnik's from Saks and he simply can't afford you anymore.

Seriously, the guy is a serial cheater. Read up on 'hoovering.' This is what he is trying now. He promises to change. He sounds sincere. It's all part of the ritual.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm sorry you are struggling right now. I haven't read any of your story other than today's post but I will. 

What I did want to say is don't be pushed too hard into doing anything that you aren't ready for! If he loves you he won't do that. 

The line about the shoes was really bad. Did your pastor really say that? I love good shoes, handbags and jewelry. I don't want to be compared to any mass produced (even if its limited edition) thing you can grab at the mall or on eBay!


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## clouded_3953 (Oct 30, 2013)

Dame, can I find hoovering on TAM? If so, where?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He may well mean every word he says. At the moment. But does he have the strength of character to follow through?

Oh, look! I just found a picture of your husband!


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## clouded_3953 (Oct 30, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> I'm sorry you are struggling right now. I haven't read any of your story other than today's post but I will.
> 
> What I did want to say is don't be pushed too hard into doing anything that you aren't ready for! If he loves you he won't do that.
> 
> The line about the shoes was really bad. Did your pastor really say that? I love good shoes, handbags and jewelry. I don't want to be compared to any mass produced (even if its limited edition) thing you can grab at the mall or on eBay!


Kristin, my pastor did actually say that but it was when we were like 16. And he was saying is to be funny, but probably some truth in it. When we were younger my H was really into sneakers. He cared about his shoes more then anything. 

My H tends to make analogies for our marriage or the way he has treated me to things that are in way comparable. He still has a little boy mentality.


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## clouded_3953 (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks Matt!!! I so needed that laugh!!!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

"Hoovering is a metaphor used to explain how abusers, such as borderlines, histrionics and narcissists, try to suck their victims back into relationships by temporarily displaying improved or contrite behaviour and/or claiming to have “changed.” It is an umbrella term for the various ploys and lame excuses your abuser will use after you’ve gone no contact to try to suck you back in, and get you to respond to him/her.

The “Hoover manoeuvre” is named after the famous vacuum cleaner and occurs most often when you threaten to leave, or actually leave, a relationship. The intent of the hoover is to get the you back into the relationship. This behaviour has its roots in the intense fear of being alone or being abandoned. It can also occur when she has left the relationship, and is feeling frightened and alone. Since he knows which ’buttons or triggers’ to push in you, it is far too often successful."

Source: http://www.escapingabuse.org.uk/emotional-abuser-her/abuser-breakup-hoovering/


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Dear clouded,

FYI - It's helpful for people who don't remember all the details of your situation if you post questions like this on your original thread; they can go back on the same thread and find out what your situation is before they reply.

But I went over to your other thread and was reminded that he's a serial cheater, and you're now separated. 

You wrote this here:



> He tried touching my butt and I pushed his hand away and then he tried to put his arm around me and I moved. He was a little taken back and asked what was wrong.


Excuse me while I barf. 

He behaved like a pig and had the nerve to act as if you've hurt HIS feelings by rejecting him??? (It WAS an act, by the way.)

If he's treated you like shoes, it's more like you were the bottoms - like you were the soles of his shoes, and he walked all over them, and the odds are really high that no matter what he smarmy words he says he will walk all over you again. You have no good reason to believe him when he says he'll behave differently going forward. NONE. Sad, but true.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

> He tried touching my butt and I pushed his hand away and then he tried to put his arm around me and I moved. He was a little taken back and asked what was wrong.


You are separated and he did that? And he was surprised at your reaction? Are you kidding me? It shows shows that even now he feels he owns you. What a chauvinistic jerk. UGH!

You had the courage to separate. Don't let yourself slide now. He is a SERIAL cheater​ Write that on a piece of paper and put it on your bathroom mirror to remind you. 

What to do?

In case you are tempted to weaken because serial cheaters are VERY good at reeling BS back in which is why they are serial cheaters, cut off all physical contact with him and refuse to talk about ANYTHING other than the kids. How?
Use only email and text to correspond. 
Take it in turns to go to the kids school things. You go to one. He goes to the next. I know many parents who do this because they can't even be in the same room. 
When he comes by to pick the kids up, send them out to him, close the door and look through the window. 
If he does try and talk to you about getting back together have a mantra and use it every time. Soon he will get the message and shut up. 

*"Mr Clouded, I am not interested in getting back with you."
*​
That's is ALL you have to say. Repeat your mantra if he says it again. If you cut off all physical contact you won't even have to do that. You can simply ignore it and talk about the kids only in emails & texts. 

You need to do this to protect yourself as I do feel you are weakening somewhat. STAY AWAY FROM HIM UNTIL YOU ARE SURE YOU ARE 100% DECIDED. 95% IS'NT ENOUGH. Good that you posted. Keep posting and do ask the moderators to add this thread to your previous one if they can. 

*"Mr Clouded, I am not interested in getting back with you."
*
​


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## DoveEnigma13 (Oct 31, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> "Hoovering is a metaphor used to explain how abusers, such as borderlines, histrionics and narcissists, try to suck their victims back into relationships by temporarily displaying improved or contrite behaviour and/or claiming to have “changed.” It is an umbrella term for the various ploys and lame excuses your abuser will use after you’ve gone no contact to try to suck you back in, and get you to respond to him/her.
> 
> The “Hoover manoeuvre” is named after the famous vacuum cleaner and occurs most often when you threaten to leave, or actually leave, a relationship. The intent of the hoover is to get the you back into the relationship. This behaviour has its roots in the intense fear of being alone or being abandoned. It can also occur when she has left the relationship, and is feeling frightened and alone. Since he knows which ’buttons or triggers’ to push in you, it is far too often successful."
> 
> Source: http://www.escapingabuse.org.uk/emotional-abuser-her/abuser-breakup-hoovering/


It is far too successful. In my case I was always so emotionally abused that it would work on me. There were several times I could have gotten out, but she made me feel horrible about it.

She was crying and blaming me for breaking up our family as she was signing the lease for her and the OM's new apartment.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

kristin2349 said:


> That's a perfect term "Hoovering".
> 
> I have a relative that is/has Borderline Personality Disorder, every time she screams she's changed, she's usually worse than before. The only way I've avoided her madness/drama, is by keeping to my stock reply: Don't tell me you've changed. If you have in the ways that matter to me I will see it. When I feel safe enough maybe we can have some sort of relationship.


Clouded, this is a good thought for your situation. The way you are feeling, we see it all the time here. Same scenario for your husband. He desperately wants to salvage the marriage, but you've been hurt and burned so many times that he's coming off as needy, desperate, and you can't really believe him anyway. It's a sad situation. As Kristin points out above in how she handled her relative however is one way you can approach your husband.

Could you say something similar to him? Like, "Don't ask me for another chance, not now. You've been given more chances than you have deserved. Don't make more promises to me or tell me you've changed. I'm going to do exactly what I said I am going to do and I'm asking you to respect that. I'm going to take time for myself and figure out what I want and how I feel about our relationship. If you really mean the things you keep trying to tell me, then I suggest that you focus on proving it with actions, because I've heard enough of your words."

It shows you're still frustrated, while challenging him to respect your wishes and gives him the tiniest bit of hope to motivate him to actually show you that he is willing and capable of changing, without making any promises. Just a thought!


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

He may have a personality disorder. But I think it's more accurate to think of him as having a "character disorder" - a similar term often used. A grown man changing his character is a remote possibility. He's not Just making a series of "mistakes" -- it's his way of life. He is simply not marriage material.
So yes you are heading in the right direction if you are moving toward divorce, but you should not look back.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

You said something important... He will now treat you as his prized "possession"...

That and the "shoe" comparison (no matter how much he loves and values shoes). They are things, meant to be used and tossed away, maybe tossed in the Goodwill box or heck sold off on eBay.

I've got some nice things. I'd never I take care of them. They aren't people. My dog gets treated better than my possessions. I'd grab him before any "thing" in a fire. 

It shows a bigger problem with maturity and values. It may have been cute and funny at one time. Until he treated you like you weren't worth even that. Sorry, if he doesn't get that. Move on to an adult who is above thinking sneakers are worth something but his wife isn't.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> I know that Biblically I can divorce but emotionally its extremely difficult for my to think about...I wish more then anything that I felt ok about going through with it!
> 
> after leaving last year I have become angry at God. I know that H's actions are not Gods fault but I sought out his direction in trying to help my H
> 
> But I realized a while back that while he may say he wants to be different, he doesn't want it enough to actually do anything about it.


Clouded
God is not going to overrule your husband’s free will; He can but He won’t. Now put on your seat belt! Your husband has not wanted to change enough to do the hard work to change but has continued his damaging actions. *You getting mad at God is because you are too weak to do your part in getting stronger so that you are not so dependant on your wayward husband.* Your husband has proven for years that he is not going to please you or God; and he has pleased himself at your expense.


It is understandable that you are so dependant on your husband but you will have to become much more self reliant and self sufficient if you are to get better. *God will help you but your fears or your husband cannot interfere with your total dedication to God and yourself.*


*Millions of women have recovered from being in your situation and so can you.*

By you not taking strong actions and allowing him to not suffer his consequences you are an enabler. If you want to know about God imposing consequences in the Bible read about Hophni and Phinehas whom God killed for stealing and committing fornication; then read about King David that was a murdered and an adulterer and God killed his child or Ananias and Sapphira that God killed for lying. I am not suggesting that your husband be killed it is just that so many people have this idea that God is only love and does not impose consequences. God supports forgiveness, mercy , grace, and consequences so do not think that you are to just be a door mat that does not allow or impose consequence?


> I just have been in an emotionally destructive marriage for ALL of my teenage/adult life!
> Exactly!!! Always being second and unimportant for so long has done a number on me!



Clouded
You have been beaten down for YEARS and you are very weak. You have not been able to get on a path that is going forward for very long. You need to desperately and diligently seek help everywhere that you can. Seek out family, friends, spiritual helps and any others. Do not quit because you get some bogus advice and help from some people. One very good place to start is to find a woman that has been through what you have and is not recovered. She will be very valuable t your recovery.

*Do your part and God will do His part*!


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