# Singles of TAM 2019



## Ynot

New year, new thread!

So I just got back from my vacation. I traveled all over Florida. I am positive that I missed more than a few places suggested by you guys. So I apologize.
But it was a fun trip. I put over 3000 miles on a rental care over 17 days of my trip. I started in Columbus Ohio. Traveled to Charlotte then to Vidalia Georgia. I went to Savannah one night and then went back two days later. Then I went to St Augustine. From there I went to Titusville. Then to Pompano Beach. I traveled thru the Everglades. Went Everglade City. Stayed in Fort Myers. Went to St Pete and then Gainesville and Jacksonville. Then I went to Charleston SC, before heading back to Charlotte and back home.


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## Andy1001

Ynot said:


> New year, new thread!
> 
> So I just got back from my vacation. I traveled all over Florida. I am positive that I missed more than a few places suggested by you guys. So I apologize.
> But it was a fun trip. I put over 3000 miles on a rental care over 17 days of my trip. I started in Columbus Ohio. Traveled to Charlotte then to Vidalia Georgia. I went to Savannah one night and then went back two days later. Then I went to St Augustine. From there I went to Titusville. Then to Pompano Beach. I traveled thru the Everglades. Went Everglade City. Stayed in Fort Myers. Went to St Pete and then Gainesville and Jacksonville. Then I went to Charleston SC, before heading back to Charlotte and back home.


What about Orlando dude?


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## bkyln309

Ynot said:


> New year, new thread!
> 
> So I just got back from my vacation. I traveled all over Florida. I am positive that I missed more than a few places suggested by you guys. So I apologize.
> But it was a fun trip. I put over 3000 miles on a rental care over 17 days of my trip. I started in Columbus Ohio. Traveled to Charlotte then to Vidalia Georgia. I went to Savannah one night and then went back two days later. Then I went to St Augustine. From there I went to Titusville. Then to Pompano Beach. I traveled thru the Everglades. Went Everglade City. Stayed in Fort Myers. Went to St Pete and then Gainesville and Jacksonville. Then I went to Charleston SC, before heading back to Charlotte and back home.



Sounds like an awesome trip. How lucky you are to have that type of vacation/flexibility. You are definitely living your best life.


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## Ynot

Andy1001 said:


> What about Orlando dude?


I was in that area once before. And I purposely avoided the places almost solely devotes to tourism. I was all around it though,


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## Ynot

bkyln309 said:


> Sounds like an awesome trip. How lucky you are to have that type of vacation/flexibility. You are definitely living your best life.


Thanks! I got to see and do so much.
I took the on/off trolley tours in Savannah and St Augustine. So if I saw something I liked I could jump off and then get back on to go to some place else I wanted to see. Both those areas are so full of history.
I stumbled into the oldest continuously operating bar in Florida on Amelia Island. Went to Kennedy Space Center. Took an airboat ride in the Everglades. Spent a day visiting the Edison/Ford Winter Estates. Went to PGA Golf HOF. Kayaked in a Manatee Preserve. Traveled through the entire lower panhandle, got to see a huge variety of plant/wild life. Visited at least 20 craft breweries. It was a good time.
One of the good things, for those of you who do not like to travel alone, is that I could walk into practically any restaurant, bar, museum, exhibit or event and just walk right in and get served. Another plus was that I got to do what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it, for as long as I wanted to do it. 
There were times it got lonely, but I met new people everyday and had lots of good conversations and heard lots of good stories.


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## 2&out

If you went to PGA thing did you stop by Daytona ? The track or beach ?


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## FeministInPink

In reference to my post from yesterday (https://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/409242-singles-tam-2018-a-95.html#post19762041), I was up all night working, and as I went to bed around 6 am, I had yet another epiphany... it's as if each realization and thought process is lighting up another room in my brain.

While both Real Estate and I were both trying to have a healthy relationship--and in many ways succeeded--it is now clear to me that our breakup/makeup pattern was an anxious-avoidant cycle. Our patterns, behaviors, and reactions are practically textbook, with him the avoidant and me the anxious. (Seriously. Reading the article, I'm written all over the left-hand columns and he is all over the right. At least we were both cognizant enough to avoid the seriously abusive behaviors on both sides.) I've only been able to see this because I finally recognized the role that my behavior played, and acknowledged that it wasn't just him. It's funny, I've known about this cycle and the pitfalls of an anxious-avoidant relationship for far longer than I've known Real Estate, but I couldn't see that we were stuck in it. I knew I was anxious and he was avoidant, but I also thought given that we talked together at length (on multiple occasions) about healthy behavior patterns, being aware and identifying unhealthy behaviors, and incorporating healthy behaviors in our relationships, that we would have avoided this cycle.

If one of us had seen this while we were together, we could have potentially changed the outcome, or at least the behavior pattern in favor of something more healthy and secure. Whether the outcome would have been different--if the relationship could have lasted--is less clear. It's possible we were only drawn to each other because of our opposing attachment styles, and once that problem was resolved, we might have found that there was very little else to keep us together. I think that's quite likely, in fact. We want very different things out of life, and this is taking us in very different directions.

So learning more about my attachment style and how to improve upon it will be another goal for the new year.

And things have not ended on as sour a note as I believed. We will be getting together for lunch tomorrow, and with this new knowledge I am no longer anxious about seeing him, or impatient, or worried about the outcome of us meeting. I look forward to sharing all of this with him, and I hope that he can use all this to help heal and move forward and grow, because I do want the best for him and I want him to find his happy. But what he does is his choice, and will have no impact on how I move forward.


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## BigToe

You might have enjoyed traveling another couple hours south and seeing the southern Everglades, and head down through the Keys. However, LOTS of traffic in the Keys over New Years so maybe a good idea that you stayed further north.


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## 2&out

FIP - maybe you are over-thinking this ? You broke up 2 months ago and your still spending all this time and energy living in the past and evaluating ? Maybe time move on ? Or is your real hope and plan to say what happened is your fault and twist his arm into getting back together ? I don't think your helping yourself or him trying to "understand" all the not solvable details of if, or, why, etc.. It just keeps the wound open - not heal. Guess I thought by after 25 or so all knew/know clean breaks are always best.


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## Ynot

BigToe said:


> You might have enjoyed traveling another couple hours south and seeing the southern Everglades, and head down through the Keys. However, LOTS of traffic in the Keys over New Years so maybe a good idea that you stayed further north.


Not sure where you meant. I traveled thru the Everglades on 41 not on 75. In fact upon leaving Savannah and heading south I think I traveled on less than 50 miles of interstate highway. I went to Everglade City for seafood. I took my airboat ride in the Everglades and got to see a lot of stuff.

I purposefully avoided the Keys. First of all because I had been to Key West once before, then there was the time element. I couldn't see spending a whole day going there and back and then finding some place remotely affordable to stay at. The further south I went along the Atlantic, the more expensive and seedier the hotels got. At one of them I though about going out for an 8Ball of Crack and a Hooker. Right around the corner there were at least 7 strip clubs, so I am sure a party could have been found. As it was I hit a couple of craft breweries and called it an early night. I wanted to get out of there before the neighborhood woke up.


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## Ynot

FIP, all of these epiphanies are good. I really do think, many of us never learn these lessons and so we continue to make the same mistakes over and over, again and again. That is why so many people jump out of one bad relationship right back into another. It is a new year, and it sounds like you found some REAL resolutions to make and keep.


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## hope4family

Peeks head in...…

Yup, i'm still single. Still dating people. 

Happy New Year. 

Sub post.


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## BigToe

Ynot said:


> Not sure where you meant. I traveled thru the Everglades on 41 not on 75. In fact upon leaving Savannah and heading south I think I traveled on less than 50 miles of interstate highway. I went to Everglade City for seafood. I took my airboat ride in the Everglades and got to see a lot of stuff.
> 
> I purposefully avoided the Keys. First of all because I had been to Key West once before, then there was the time element. I couldn't see spending a whole day going there and back and then finding some place remotely affordable to stay at. The further south I went along the Atlantic, the more expensive and seedier the hotels got. At one of them I though about going out for an 8Ball of Crack and a Hooker. Right around the corner there were at least 7 strip clubs, so I am sure a party could have been found. As it was I hit a couple of craft breweries and called it an early night. I wanted to get out of there before the neighborhood woke up.


Yes, 41 runs between Miami and Naples at the northern end of the Everglades. The southern entrance to Everglades is west of Florida City. I've been to both. The northern end is more commercial while the southern end is more national park"ish". Just a different experience.


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## 2&out

Ynot - GO BUCKEYES !


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## FeministInPink

2&out said:


> FIP - maybe you are over-thinking this ? You broke up 2 months ago and your still spending all this time and energy living in the past and evaluating ? Maybe time move on ? Or is your real hope and plan to say what happened is your fault and twist his arm into getting back together ? I don't think your helping yourself or him trying to "understand" all the not solvable details of if, or, why, etc.. It just keeps the wound open - not heal. Guess I thought by after 25 or so all knew/know clean breaks are always best.


I respectfully disagree. I am trying to learn from my failures and grow as a person, and that requires introspection. An eye towards oneself and the situation that is both critical and compassionate, which can identify the unhealthy behaviors so that I can make changes and do better in my next relationship. THIS is the healing.

What do you do after a big project at work? You sit down and debrief. Talk through the steps of the project, identify pain points and unanticipated problems, and discuss possible solutions and improvements so the next one will be better. This is the exact same thing, but I've been debriefing as a team of one.

I am finding all this incredibly helpful, and I think it will be helpful to him as well, if he wants to take advantage of it. You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem IS. I want him to be happy, and I want him to have the same opportunity to grow, if he wants it, and that is why I want to talk to him. And I also want to apologize in person for the ways that I've only recently realized that I hurt him. Because when you've hurt someone, you apologize. Guess I thought by after 25 or so all know that apologizing when you've hurt someone is best.

I never said this was all my fault, and I would never say that. He and I are equally responsible, but up until very recently I have been faulting him for everything, and that was unfair. And he has taken the blame for the whole thing whenever anyone asks him about it--even his friends and family--so no one would think less of me. That is the type of man who deserves a freaking apology and acknowledgement from me.

And no, I'm not going to twist his arm to get back together. That type of behavior would feed directly into the anxious-avoidant cycle, and would be bad for both of us, and would likely trigger both of us in different ways. When we broke up, I told him that I would be willing to reconcile if he would work on his issues, so he knows that already. So I feel no need to suggest it again.

AND SERIOUSLY, WHO THE **** gets over a 2.5 yr serious relationship with a person they loved very deeply in just a few months??? If you seriously believe that, then you sound like a pretty cold and heartless bastard. I have several friends who are therapists and 1) they all think that it will take me a year, and 2) they are proud of me for the emotional discoveries and progress that I have made.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> FIP, all of these epiphanies are good. I really do think, many of us never learn these lessons and so we continue to make the same mistakes over and over, again and again. That is why so many people jump out of one bad relationship right back into another. It is a new year, and it sounds like you found some REAL resolutions to make and keep.


Thank you! Which is precisely why I have no intention to jump into another relationship ANY time soon.


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Thank you! Which is precisely why I have no intention to jump into another relationship ANY time soon.


Yeah, I wish I had the prefect knowledge that some here seem to possess. But taking the time to really let a life lesson sink in so that you can apply it throughout your life is often the best course of action. As I said, too many people never do this. Bravos to you.


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## wilson

FeministInPink said:


> I respectfully disagree. I am trying to learn from my failures and grow as a person, and that requires introspection. An eye towards oneself and the situation that is both critical and compassionate, which can identify the unhealthy behaviors so that I can make changes and do better in my next relationship. THIS is the healing.


I think this can be healthy if you go into it not expecting any sort of satisfying resolution. Often, examining relationship issues can lead down a never-ending hole of more questions and issues. Sometimes it's 'why-why-why...' all the way down forever. If you're meeting expecting to finally have all the answers to the questions that have been bothering you, you will likely just end up with even more questions that bother you even more. 

And also keep in mind that the things that worked/failed with your ex might be unique to him and that relationship. Your next beau may like all the things that your ex didn't. You don't want to conform yourself to your ex. 

If you can go into the meeting more as a disinterested observer, it will probably be healthier in the long run.


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## FeministInPink

wilson said:


> I think this can be healthy if you go into it not expecting any sort of satisfying resolution. Often, examining relationship issues can lead down a never-ending hole of more questions and issues. Sometimes it's 'why-why-why...' all the way down forever. If you're meeting expecting to finally have all the answers to the questions that have been bothering you, you will likely just end up with even more questions that bother you even more.
> 
> And also keep in mind that the things that worked/failed with your ex might be unique to him and that relationship. Your next beau may like all the things that your ex didn't. You don't want to conform yourself to your ex.
> 
> If you can go into the meeting more as a disinterested observer, it will probably be healthier in the long run.


And that is the way I am approaching it. I'm not looking for any answers from him--I'm finding the answers I'm looking for on my own. 

This isn't about conforming to my ex. I learned long ago to not change who you are for another person. And that was something I never felt that I had to do with Real Estate, he always liked me exactly the way I am, and I never felt the need to be more or less of anything, or to change in any way to make him happy--and he never expected me to. In fact, he always encouraged me to be true to myself. I'm talking about identifying the unhealthy behavioral patterns that he and I both exhibited, which are directly tied to our attachment styles. This is the crux of the failure of our relationship. Everything else about our relationship was very good and in sync--we were on the same page with damn near everything. It is VERY likely that I will encounter these same problems in my next relationship, because avoidant attracts anxious, and vice versa... and I want to learn how I can have a more secure style (although I will never NOT be anxious, I can become more secure), be more mindful, and exhibit healthier behaviors for the future, whoever that is with. If anything, this exercise is directed at becoming my more authentic self, and being true to myself--not about conforming to another person.


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## Ynot

wilson said:


> I think this can be healthy if you go into it not expecting any sort of satisfying resolution. Often, examining relationship issues can lead down a never-ending hole of more questions and issues. Sometimes it's 'why-why-why...' all the way down forever. If you're meeting expecting to finally have all the answers to the questions that have been bothering you, you will likely just end up with even more questions that bother you even more.
> 
> And also keep in mind that the things that worked/failed with your ex might be unique to him and that relationship. Your next beau may like all the things that your ex didn't. You don't want to conform yourself to your ex.
> 
> If you can go into the meeting more as a disinterested observer, it will probably be healthier in the long run.


I disagree. Perhaps early on when one searches for answers about why a relationship failed you can fall into the trap of why-why-why. But as time progresses and you are able to take a less butt-hurt POV, looking into why something failed is a good thing, that can and does provide a lot of answers. Especially when one looks within. As FIP has said, it isn't about conforming your Ex or for that matter attempting to attract your next, it is more about learning about yourself and questioning some of the assumptions and conclusions you have used to guide your own actions moving forward.
As far as conforming to your ex or whether or not your next likes things, those are really not as important than whether or not YOU like them your self.


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## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> It is VERY likely that I will encounter these same problems in my next relationship, because avoidant attracts anxious, and vice versa... and I want to learn how I can have a more secure style (although I will never NOT be anxious, I can become more secure), be more mindful, and exhibit healthier behaviors for the future, whoever that is with


Reading about it, I have an anxious preoccupied relationship style too and am struggling to fix it. I have gone in the complete opposite direction of friend zoning everyone I meet even though I crave that emotionally intimate relationship.

How are you learning to have a more secure relationship style?


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## Lila

2019 started out really great. I hope that it's an symbolic of the type of year I'm going to have.

I am finding the single life interesting. 

After the separation last year, I joined a bunch of groups on Meetup and started attending events. I met some really cool people who have turned into good friends. The only issue is that most of the groups are comprised of either much older or much younger people. I still haven't found a social group for people in my life stage. 

So after much (too much) consternation, I decided to set up a dating profile online. It's been an interesting experience so far (day 5 and nothing awful to report). I have been on 4 first dates. All have looked like their profile pics (attractive) and all have been gentlemen but Im stumbling over their personalities. I can't tell you how difficult it is to have a conversation with some of these people. If this were a tennis match, I have been serving soft volleys only to watch the ball bounce away without a return. What's worse is that they want to see me again. I'm like "were we on the same date?". 

I did have a great connection with one guy (younger than me) but he lives too far away to even consider anything more than an occasional date.

For those wondering why I don't stick to meeting people IRL, I seem to attract married or non monogamous men. Don't ask me why. I can't figure it out. Unfortunately, these are also the men with whom I have had the best chemistry. Go figure. I now just assume that if a man is attractive, is chivalrous, and can hold a conversation then he must be non monogamous.


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> Reading about it, I have an anxious preoccupied relationship style too and am struggling to fix it. I have gone in the complete opposite direction of friend zoning everyone I meet even though I crave that emotionally intimate relationship.
> 
> How are you learning to have a more secure relationship style?


If you'll note, I said that I WANT to learn how to have a more secure attachment style. I'm not so far along yet. What I have been doing is reading more about attachment style on this page: https://kylebenson.net/ 

I've been thinking on my actions (and reactions) in past relationships, but mostly on how I engaged with Real Estate (since that is most recent and the most serious relationship I've had other than my former marriage), and identifying my own behavior patterns.

I'm going to get a copy of the book Attached, which seems to be the Bible of modern attachment theory. I've considered picking up a copy before because it sounded interesting, but now I think that I need it. It offers advice on how to work on yourself to create more secure attachment behaviors in oneself. I'll never not be anxious, but I can learn how to better manage it. I'm also going to work my way through several David Ricchio relationship books as well. 

Beyond that, there are a couple of general self-help books on my shelf that I'm going to work through. Improving self-love and self-acceptance is a big part of easing anxious attachment, and I think that will help immensely.


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## FeministInPink

I just finished lunch with Real Estate about 30 minutes ago. It went well. It was really nice to see him, and he's doing well.

Despite my acknowledgement of my role in our breakup, and apology for how my actions hurt him, he still insists on taking the lion's share of the blame for the failure of our relationship. Which, given the kind of man he is, I cannot say I am surprised.

When I started explaining the attachment theory stuff, and what I've learned, it kind of blew his mind. But as I was explaining the cycle to him in general terms, I could see the light bulbs going off in his head, and that he was seeing the same connections that I was.

The difference of opinion is that I believe this is something we could work on and improve, and we could have a better, healthier relationship if we both commit to making that change. He is skeptical. However, we both agree that getting back together right now would not be healthy, and we both need to focus on ourselves right now. 

Honestly, while I think this information was eye-opening for him, I don't think he will ever be able to bring himself to committing to trying to change these behaviors in order to try again with me. His defenses are too thick, and they feel safe to him, even if they are hurting him. Change is hard, and it is scary. Not to mention that moving in this direction would make him vulnerable. Even if he decides to make the effort to work on his attachment style and learn healthier behaviors, I don't think he will want to try again with me. Too much water under the bridge and all that. And I also understand that he feels like he has already hurt me and failed me too much, and to try again with additional potential of failure is too risky for him.

And I understand. Moving on to something else and someone else is easier.

But we are on good terms, and we will hang out on occasion and be friends. It's clear he still cares about me. But unless he wants to revisit this topic, I don't think there is anything else for he and I to discuss.


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## Hopeful Cynic

FeministInPink said:


> AND SERIOUSLY, WHO THE **** gets over a 2.5 yr serious relationship with a person they loved very deeply in just a few months??? If you seriously believe that, then you sound like a pretty cold and heartless bastard. I have several friends who are therapists and 1) they all think that it will take me a year, and 2) they are proud of me for the emotional discoveries and progress that I have made.


I'm nine years out of a twenty-year relationship now, and still single. The first few years were slow recovery, and since then it's been lack of opportunity. I like my single life too much to wreck it by trying to date in earnest. I confess that I did believe early on that I'd surely have found someone by now, in a more or less organic fashion, but oh well.


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## john117

I must be a cold heartless bastard then...


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## 2&out

I accept the accusation with no apology. If I f*** up I admit I f***ed up and move on. I do not evaluate and investigate why I or what f***cked up. I already usually know. I know it can't be changed and I think it is a total waste of time to evaluate and try to explain. Onward and Upward. That is the way I'm built. If that appalls some and makes me a cold hearted bastard then O-well. I'll leave that to the beta babies and *sensitive* types.

I'll stay off the singles thread. I'm not married but I'm not really single either so I'll just read and leave the being single experts to it.


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## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> I just finished lunch with Real Estate about 30 minutes ago. It went well. It was really nice to see him, and he's doing well.
> 
> Despite my acknowledgement of my role in our breakup, and apology for how my actions hurt him, he still insists on taking the lion's share of the blame for the failure of our relationship. Which, given the kind of man he is, I cannot say I am surprised.
> 
> When I started explaining the attachment theory stuff, and what I've learned, it kind of blew his mind. But as I was explaining the cycle to him in general terms, I could see the light bulbs going off in his head, and that he was seeing the same connections that I was.
> 
> The difference of opinion is that I believe this is something we could work on and improve, and we could have a better, healthier relationship if we both commit to making that change. He is skeptical. However, we both agree that getting back together right now would not be healthy, and we both need to focus on ourselves right now.
> 
> Honestly, while I think this information was eye-opening for him, I don't think he will ever be able to bring himself to committing to trying to change these behaviors in order to try again with me. His defenses are too thick, and they feel safe to him, even if they are hurting him. Change is hard, and it is scary. Not to mention that moving in this direction would make him vulnerable. Even if he decides to make the effort to work on his attachment style and learn healthier behaviors, I don't think he will want to try again with me. Too much water under the bridge and all that. And I also understand that he feels like he has already hurt me and failed me too much, and to try again with additional potential of failure is too risky for him.
> 
> 
> And I understand. Moving on to something else and someone else is easier.
> 
> But we are on good terms, and we will hang out on occasion and be friends. It's clear he still cares about me. But unless he wants to revisit this topic, I don't think there is anything else for he and I to discuss.


FIP: I dont think he grasped all that psychological stuff. Honestly, I cannot imagine meeting my ex and him pulling out his armchair amateur diagnosis of our relationship. I think he was just trying to be polite and get through it. All that is too much. Honestly, it probably confirmed to him why the relationship was overwhelming. Too much for a follow up meeting. 

And I think deep down you wanted to fix it so you had to figure out what went wrong and propose what you could do to change it. You cannot. Move on. Work on yourself. Real Estate and you simply dont work on many levels. 

You seem like a great person. Maybe go to a therapist and work our privately and professionally your issues to better your next relationship. Work out your issues with a professional and leave the dating to lighter topics.


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## RandomDude

Happy new year guys n gals 

Big year this year, lots of plans, two overseas trips, and planning a joint account and my girlfriend moving in with us during this year. She is very insistent on contributing, also spent over a thousand of her own money on my birthday last year when she could easily have avoided it and let me bacon bring. We still fight about it lol


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> FIP: I dont think he grasped all that psychological stuff. Honestly, I cannot imagine meeting my ex and him pulling out his armchair amateur diagnosis of our relationship. I think he was just trying to be polite and get through it. All that is too much. Honestly, it probably confirmed to him why the relationship was overwhelming. Too much for a follow up meeting.
> 
> And I think deep down you wanted to fix it so you had to figure out what went wrong and propose what you could do to change it. You cannot. Move on. Work on yourself. Real Estate and you simply dont work on many levels.
> 
> You seem like a great person. Maybe go to a therapist and work our privately and professionally your issues to better your next relationship. Work out your issues with a professional and leave the dating to lighter topics.


It may have been too much for him, and I think he grasped it. He's a smart guy who has the intellectual capacity for deep conversation. I've done a lot more reading and research on psychology over the years than he has, because I'm interested in what makes people tick and also because I want to be healthier, understand myself better, and be better in my relationships (all relationships, not just romantic). When it comes to relationships, he seems to have very little understanding of what he does or why he does it. He's said this outright on multiple occasions without any prompting. Not because he isn't capable of understanding, but because he hasn't taken the time to read and investigate psychology and relationship theory.

I don't think he was just being polite; during our relationship, he was proactive about wanting to be a better partner and learning healthier behaviors. His XW never gave him the chance to talk like this after she left him; she just disappeared and would only communicate through lawyers. So he gets it, and why I want to talk about things. He cares enough about my well-being to not shut me out, and hopefully he can learn something from this, too. If he was just being polite, he would have just sit through it, with his eyes glazed over, until I was finished, and wouldn't have engaged in the conversation. I KNOW him and all his behavioral patterns. But he was actively engaged in the conversation, was asking questions, etc.

And you're right. Deep down, I do want to fix this, especially now that I can see and understand exactly what our problem was and where it stems from. I'm not going to deny that. For me to move on and grow, I need to acknowledge how I really feel, rather than suppress my feelings. Wanting something and expecting something, however, are two very different things. I did not meet with Real Estate to make a case for us getting back together and working on fixing this, and I made that very clear to him. My intention was to share with him what I have learned, which I intend to guide me towards working on my own attachment style, because I want him to have access to the same information, or at least have a place to start, if he ever DOES decide to try working on himself. I know it's unlikely that he will. When we were together, while he made many efforts to create healthy (and healthier) behavior patterns, the prospect of change and growth beyond a certain point was something he simply wasn't willing to attempt, because it went against his self-preservation instincts and would force him to be more introspective than he was willing, and would push him too far outside his comfort zone.

And frankly, it he said to me, yes, I want to make a commitment to working on my issues, and I want to get back together and work on fixing our stuff, too... I would likely die of shock and surprise on the spot. Because I know him well enough to know that isn't going to happen. He doesn't love me enough to do this for him or for us. I'm not stupid or naive, or blind. He cares for me deeply. Just not enough. Whether that is because of his defense mechanisms, or because of the anxious-avoidant cycle, or simply because it just IS--the "why" in this case simply doesn't matter. He doesn't love me enough, period, and nothing I do or say will ever change that.

But someday, he is going to meet someone who knocks him off his feet. And when that happens, he's going to realize that he needs to make some changes, or he will lose out on her. I hope, when that happens, he recalls our conversation yesterday, and uses the information and knowledge I shared with him as a starting point to make changes in himself. If he understood the avoidant-anxious cycle from the way I explained it to him, then maybe he will be able to recognize it when it happens again with someone else, and break that old cycle.

I know I will be happy, because I am working on me, and I'm getting better all the time. I know I will meet someone else, and I will have better relationships down the road, and maybe even get married again. I'm not worried about that.

There is something, however, that a lot of the posters here don't seem to understand. My relationship with Real Estate changed me in a profound way, and for the better. I have learned to see myself in an entirely different (positive!) light, and he taught me to have higher expectations for men and relationships, and that I deserve more than the crap treatment I've received from men in the past. He taught me (and showed me how) to prioritize myself and my needs in a relationship, and to never accept someone who doesn't. Because of Real Estate, finally, for the first time in my life, I understand that I am beautiful and deserving of love.

Despite everything else that has happened between us, he gave me so much that I will be forever grateful for. And if I can give him just a little bit of the same, by giving him some insight and a starting point so that he can find his way forward, and so that he can love himself a little more and be able to love another person again, then I'm going to do that. That's what this is about. It's not about trying to get him back, or about convincing him to fix our old problems.

I will likely see a therapist at some point, but it's not financially feasible for me right now. Once I'm working in a salaried job again, I'm planning on seeing somebody. But in regards to dating... lady, I'm a deep, serious person. I love to have fun, and I'm a hoot to be around, but if a guy can't also take (and appreciate) my deep, serious side, then he's not for me.


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Happy new year guys n gals
> 
> Big year this year, lots of plans, two overseas trips, and planning a joint account and my girlfriend moving in with us during this year. She is very insistent on contributing, also spent over a thousand of her own money on my birthday last year when she could easily have avoided it and let me bacon bring. We still fight about it lol


OMG, RD! I can't believe this... a few years ago, I never would have pictured you actually being in love and moving in with someone. I'm so happy for you... and proud of you


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## lifeistooshort

FeministInPink said:


> OMG, RD! I can't believe this... a few years ago, I never would have pictured you actually being in love and moving in with someone. I'm so happy for you... and proud of you


I agree....RD has come a long way. 

I sense he's martured a lot... that's a good thing.


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## lifeistooshort

Happy 2019 everyone!

I know it sounds strange, but I really don't feel like I have any emotional attachment whatsoever to my ex. Our divorce was final in November.... I'd told him it was over in September, but I knew it was over long before that so I guess I'd done my grieving by then. 

Looking back I realize that I was really never all in emotionally because I didn't trust him and didn't feel safe with him, and that's probably a big part of the reason I've moved on so quickly. I really don't ever think about him.

I have been seeing someone.... the same guy I've mentioned in my thread. It's nice and we have a great time together, but I don't think either of us is in a rush. I like being able to do what i want to do and my kids are enjoying our laid back lifestyle.

We'll see what happens.


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> OMG, RD! I can't believe this... a few years ago, I never would have pictured you actually being in love and moving in with someone. I'm so happy for you... and proud of you


Never would have imagined it either lol



lifeistooshort said:


> I agree....RD has come a long way.
> 
> I sense he's martured a lot... that's a good thing.


Not sure about myself maturing, maybe more accurate to say ive met my much maturer other half


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## Faithful Wife

I finally had a great first date and a second date planned. Woot! He is tall, dark, handsome, has a cool important job, a cool ride, cool clothes. He was gentlemanly, but edgy. Our second date will be the private room karaoke place. 

I’m going to be so bad for a moment here....but this guy is so hot he made me want to bite my hand like Lenny from Laverne and Shirley. Or did Squiggy also do that? I remember being so confused about why they were doing that, when I was a kid. Now I’m like....no, FW, NO! Do NOT put your hand near your mouth and bite it! Stop it, put your damn hand on your lap and sit still.

By “finally”, I mean that I have had about 10 first dates, different guys, in the past 3 months or so. All of the dates were good. Only had chemistry with 2 of them but not enough to light a solid spark. A couple we talked about second dates but I knew it wasn’t gonna happen even when we were saying it. It’s always fun to meet someone and hear their story and then you’ll always wish them well and they are/were part of your dating history now.

I haven’t had anything close to a “bad date” for so long I can’t remember it. By bad date I mean when they are nothing like you thought (which could be because you are not in the right place to be dating healthy), or they are rude or obnoxious, or they have bad hygiene or manners like Al Bundy, or they ask you for a threesome on the first date. These are all random examples, not all mine. But I am just happy I seem to be picking really well lately, because all of these first dates were good picks. Just no or not enough chemistry.

But tonight, I got some chemistry (doing a little Snoopy dance). Whee!


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## Ynot

My new year is starting off with lots of options, some certainties and some possibilities. Life is good. I oftentimes wonder why I was so butt hurt about my divorce. My life is so much fuller and richer than it was before. Single life is much more enjoyable than what I had.


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## sunsetmist

Ynot said:


> My new year is starting off with lots of options, some certainties and some possibilities. Life is good. I oftentimes wonder why I was so butt hurt about my divorce. My life is so much fuller and richer than it was before. Single life is much more enjoyable than what I had.


When we've invested ourselves in a family and relationship and the relationship fails, we have a tendency to feel like we are failures when this is NOT true. It is hard to let go after so much is invested, I think.

I miss the feeling of wanting to be loved, valued, but actually, he told me he never loved me, so that sort of explains how he treated me. I held on too long for many reasons. My life is good--great, but there are voids, missing pieces, so adjustment to different is ongoing, but doable.

Glad your outlook glows.


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## FeministInPink

sunsetmist said:


> When we've invested ourselves in a family and relationship and the relationship fails, we have a tendency to feel like we are failures when this is NOT true. It is hard to let go after so much is invested, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> I miss the feeling of wanting to be loved, valued, but actually, he told me he never loved me, so that sort of explains how he treated me. I held on too long for many reasons. My life is good--great, but there are voids, missing pieces, so adjustment to different is ongoing, but doable.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad your outlook glows.


Even if he SAID he didn't love you, if when you were together, he made you FEEL loved and valued, that is something that can be very hard to let go of, and very easy to miss.

Myself? I sometimes wonder if I miss all of THAT more than I miss Real Estate himself. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Even if he SAID he didn't love you, if when you were together, he made you FEEL loved and valued, that is something that can be very hard to let go of, and very easy to miss.
> 
> Myself? I sometimes wonder if I miss all of THAT more than I miss Real Estate himself.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes there are times when I miss the illusion of a happy domestic life, of having some one else in the house (even if we weren't together) or knowing someone was home when I was cutting grass or working in the garage or even just knowing that some one would be coming home soon. 
But now I realize that those were only illusions I had accepted in place of true contentment. So when ever I start to pine for my past life, I start thinking about all of the good things I have now. 
I think about my freedom. My freedom to do what I want, when I want, for as long as I want and not having to comply with some one else's time frame or wants and needs.
My recent trip was exactly that. I didn't run myself ragged going to 15 different places and having to get from point A to point B because of some arbitrary schedule. I could linger as long as I wanted wherever I was and I could decide to see something tomorrow or skip it altogether if I wanted to.
Honestly at this point in my life the thing I missed most about when I was married is the house and property I had. I know I couldn't stay there, there were too many anchors there, but still I had a nice place and miss it. Now I just try to make the best with what I have.


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## sunsetmist

FeministInPink said:


> Even if he SAID he didn't love you, if when you were together, he made you FEEL loved and valued, that is something that can be very hard to let go of, and very easy to miss.
> 
> Myself? I sometimes wonder if I miss all of THAT more than I miss Real Estate himself.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Sadly, he made me feel loved before we married, but rarely after. Other family members have confirmed my observations. Sure there were splinters of hope, but realistically, he told me repeatedly in many ways he wanted 'out' but I refused to believe. (This was before I knew about NPD, passive- aggressive characteristics, etc.) I thought if I tried hard enough what I had seen before marriage would be restored.

You, on the other hand, miss the real relationship you had and all that accompanied it, I'm thinking. Your void is fresher, more deep and painful now. You have said how much you cared for him compared to other men. You are wiser than I, but I am sad for you.


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## FeministInPink

sunsetmist said:


> Sadly, he made me feel loved before we married, but rarely after. Other family members have confirmed my observations. Sure there were splinters of hope, but realistically, he told me repeatedly in many ways he wanted 'out' but I refused to believe. (This was before I knew about NPD, passive- aggressive characteristics, etc.) I thought if I tried hard enough what I had seen before marriage would be restored.
> 
> 
> 
> You, on the other hand, miss the real relationship you had and all that accompanied it, I'm thinking. Your void is fresher, more deep and painful now. You have said how much you cared for him compared to other men. You are wiser than I, but I am sad for you.


Your first comment reminds me of my former marriage.

Your second comment... you may be right. I have a lot of introspection going on right now, and I've been accused of overanalyzing on this thread, but that introspection is what helps me become more self-aware, and hopefully wiser.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Your first comment reminds me of my former marriage.
> 
> Your second comment... you may be right. I have a lot of introspection going on right now, and I've been accused of overanalyzing on this thread, but that introspection is what helps me become more self-aware, and hopefully wiser.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Regardless of what the nay-sayers say, introspection is a good thing. How else do you grow? I guess you can be closed minded like some of these guys and imagine you have nothing learn. As I said before, it would be great to be born with the perfect knowledge these people seem to possess, but alas we understand we are not perfect and simply strive to be better. That in itself would be a huge break through for some of these people.
As long as your introspection helps you grow and doesn't suck you into a black hole of despair you will be fine. Take your time, learn your lessons and grow into an even better person.


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## john117

Ynot said:


> My new year is starting off with lots of options, some certainties and some possibilities. Life is good. I oftentimes wonder why I was so butt hurt about my divorce. My life is so much fuller and richer than it was before. Single life is much more enjoyable than what I had.


The hardest part for me to overcome was not the pain - very little of that if any - but the feeling that given what I know I should have been able to "save" it. It's like the quarterback playing mind movies after screwing up a 3rd and goal from the 5 yard line... 

It took a year of separation to draw out all the options I thought I had and play out different scenarios. All of which came back to the same conclusion. I'm good but this is beyond my skills and beyond anybody else's skills too.

As for the new year... paperwork should be done by end of March or April... Then a big nothing. I don't see it as a big moral victory or ding dong the witch is dead type moment. 

I have learned to not let a single attribute define who I am. Like an ingrown toenail it's something you have to do. 

PM with any decent instant pot recipes


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## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Ynot said:
> 
> 
> 
> My new year is starting off with lots of options, some certainties and some possibilities. Life is good. I oftentimes wonder why I was so butt hurt about my divorce. My life is so much fuller and richer than it was before. Single life is much more enjoyable than what I had.
> 
> 
> 
> The hardest part for me to overcome was not the pain - very little of that if any - but the feeling that given what I know I should have been able to "save" it. It's like the quarterback playing mind movies after screwing up a 3rd and goal from the 5 yard line...
> 
> It took a year of separation to draw out all the options I thought I had and play out different scenarios. All of which came back to the same conclusion. I'm good but this is beyond my skills and beyond anybody else's skills too.
> 
> As for the new year... paperwork should be done by end of March or April... Then a big nothing. I don't see it as a big moral victory or ding dong the witch is dead type moment.
> 
> I have learned to not let a single attribute define who I am. Like an ingrown toenail it's something you have to do.
> 
> PM with any decent instant pot recipes
Click to expand...

John, we are actively listening with empathy and sending (((hugs))) and emojis of cats with heart eyes.


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## john117

Faithful Wife said:


> John, we are actively listening with empathy and sending (((hugs))) and emojis of cats with heart eyes.


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## FeministInPink

john117 said:


> The hardest part for me to overcome was not the pain - very little of that if any - but the feeling that given what I know I should have been able to "save" it. It's like the quarterback playing mind movies after screwing up a 3rd and goal from the 5 yard line...
> 
> It took a year of separation to draw out all the options I thought I had and play out different scenarios. All of which came back to the same conclusion. I'm good but this is beyond my skills and beyond anybody else's skills too.
> 
> As for the new year... paperwork should be done by end of March or April... Then a big nothing. I don't see it as a big moral victory or ding dong the witch is dead type moment.
> 
> I have learned to not let a single attribute define who I am. Like an ingrown toenail it's something you have to do.
> 
> PM with any decent instant pot recipes


This is why introspection is key in the wake of a breakup.

When I have some time and get to a computer, I'll PM you some Instant Pot recipes. I also recommend America's Test Kitchen multicooker cook book. It hadn't been released yet when I got my Instant Pot, but a friend of mine bought the book when she got her IP (after I raved about the ATK cookbooks), and she says it's fantastic. I don't recommend the cookbook I purchased for my IP (I haven't found it to be useful), and I've found my favorite recipes online.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> This is why introspection is key in the wake of a breakup.
> 
> When I have some time and get to a computer, I'll PM you some Instant Pot recipes. I also recommend America's Test Kitchen multicooker cook book. It hadn't been released yet when I got my Instant Pot, but a friend of mine bought the book when she got her IP (after I raved about the ATK cookbooks), and she says it's fantastic. I don't recommend the cookbook I purchased for my IP (I haven't found it to be useful), and I've found my favorite recipes online.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Omg, I actually thought @john117 was talking about edibles!


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## john117

Faithful Wife said:


> Omg, I actually thought @john117 was talking about edibles!


As part of my new status I depend on the charity of my daughters for home cooked meals... Until I learn to cook. The instant pot is actually quite convenient for us newly single. Both my daughters are good cooks, the older one an exceptional one. It's a slow process...


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## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> As part of my new status I depend on the charity of my daughters for home cooked meals... Until I learn to cook. The instant pot is actually quite convenient for us newly single. Both my daughters are good cooks, the older one an exceptional one. It's a slow process...


Can you make bacon and eggs, stuff like that? You can take that pretty far. Omelette, breakfast burrito, boiled eggs and bacon plus fresh ingredients to make a Cobb salad, a BLT or muffin breakfast sandwich with egg!

Also you have Trader Joe’s or better fancy grocery stores, right? I could literally live off of their deli, meats cheese sections, and delicious prepared meals (or components), frozen, fancy breads.....wow, I must be hungry.

Anyway, do you have this as a start? Do you want to learn to cook fancy meals so that you can attract a woman into your bower? :laugh:


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## FeministInPink

john117 said:


> As part of my new status I depend on the charity of my daughters for home cooked meals... Until I learn to cook. The instant pot is actually quite convenient for us newly single. Both my daughters are good cooks, the older one an exceptional one. It's a slow process...


If you want, I can recommend some some other books with simple stuff (non IP) to get you started.

The first is the America's Test Kitchen "The Best Simple Recipes" cookbook. I like their books because they have a section in the front that reviews the kitchen tools every cook should have, as well as staples you should have in your pantry. They also do a great job explaining techniques, and why/how a recipe works.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## john117

I do basic stuff like eggs, baked fish, etc. But decades of Dr J2's admittedly excellent food have spoiled me. I do a lot of my birth country's or similar stews on the Crock-Pot too. Deli eating is ok on occasion - we do have Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and Costco. 

I guess in the grand scheme of things it's one of those independence things. Just like she learned to put gas in her X3 and take it for service, I'm learning the lessons of life as well. For both of us it's the small moral victories that help us grow as individuals and not feel bitter towards each other. (Another life lesson)

If I get to a date situation I'll probably drive to a food rich city nearby (Cincinnati, Chicago, etc) and enjoy the offerings there.


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## sunsetmist

john117 said:


> I do basic stuff like eggs, baked fish, etc. But decades of Dr J2's admittedly excellent food have spoiled me. I do a lot of my birth country's or similar stews on the Crock-Pot too. Deli eating is ok on occasion - we do have Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and Costco.
> 
> I guess in the grand scheme of things it's one of those independence things. Just like she learned to put gas in her X3 and take it for service, I'm learning the lessons of life as well. For both of us it's the small moral victories that help us grow as individuals and not feel bitter towards each other. (Another life lesson)
> 
> If I get to a date situation I'll probably drive to a food rich city nearby (Cincinnati, Chicago, etc) and enjoy the offerings there.


Cooking classes are both good dating venues and opportunities to meet other folks. I know someone who took an IP class recently and he had a super evening--learned all sorts of skills and was hit on by female chef.


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## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> I do basic stuff like eggs, baked fish, etc. But decades of Dr J2's admittedly excellent food have spoiled me. I do a lot of my birth country's or similar stews on the Crock-Pot too. Deli eating is ok on occasion - we do have Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and Costco.
> 
> I guess in the grand scheme of things it's one of those independence things. Just like she learned to put gas in her X3 and take it for service, I'm learning the lessons of life as well. For both of us it's the small moral victories that help us grow as individuals and not feel bitter towards each other. (Another life lesson)
> 
> If I get to a date situation I'll probably drive to a food rich city nearby (Cincinnati, Chicago, etc) and enjoy the offerings there.


Ahhhh.....real love. It’s da best!

Just know that if she is an excellent cook, you may not ever achieve that level. It’s defin harder than learning to gas up the SUV and take it the shop once in awhile. It is quite an art, and I feel good when I can just be proud of what I made because it’s really good....but none of us around here can compete with our overload of excellence in restaurants and dining in our area. I swear to god, some people are cooking in the home less around here not because of fast junk food, but because the restaurants are so good and so cheap and so numerous you can’t make it yourself at home and come even close on most anything. 

Damn, I’m still hungry.


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## Faithful Wife

Have a second mini date lined up for tomorrow with Mr. Hotness. I might even get a little canoodling. I’m quite looking forward to getting my hands on him and getting his on me.

I am not sure right now if there will be much depth to this or it’s is going to be mostly physical between us. I’m good either way. If my first impression of him was correct, this could be a very nice thing for both of us. I’m not trying to find someone to fall madly in love with. Though if that happens, great. What works fine for me is just mutual fondness and respect and generally being totally into each other sexually. 

He deleted his bumble app (he told me right after our first date that he was going to and he did). I put mine on indefinite snooze. No need to keep swiping or talking to others when I’ve got something this good lined up.

We still have an evening date for karaoke on Monday or Tuesday. That should be fun too, though I’m not clear on if he will actually sing with me or not. I hope he does but I understand when people don’t want to. I’m gonna sing me some Diana Ross.


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## Ynot

Oh well live and learn. I probably should have cut her loose a while ago.
I went out with this women on Friday for a date. We had a met before and had had sex. I kind of picked up on some red flags, but I thought it might be nervousness or just me.
Wow! She turned out to be one of the most self absorbed persons I have ever met. At the same time she seemed completely un-self aware that she was even doing it. She was just an unhappy woman, who felt she was entitled and wasn't getting her expectations met and had no problem saying so.
She lived in the past. Always talked about her kids, and how great they are, while complaining they never see her. She hated where she lived and wanted to move back from where she came from. She was a walking talking contrast.
At the studio/bar we went to she started arguing with a guy about his wife (she didn't know them, but had her opinions on how he should treat her), how to make sauce (nobody from here knows how to make sauce), being Italian, etc. etc. She jumped all over the place in some sort of stream of (semi) consciousness way. She went to the rest room at one point. That guy told me she was nuts and I agreed. 
She was that way with me as well. If I touched her, it made her uncomfortable, but then she would grab me kiss me passionately at the bar. If I said one thing, she would say another. Sometimes in direct contrast to something else that she had just said.
I honestly couldn't wait for the date to end. I left when I got back to her place. I haven't heard from her since and honestly, if she does, while I am torn between telling her to get help or just ignoring her. I think I will just ignore her. She has some serious issues that go so deep that I don't even think she is aware of.


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## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> Oh well live and learn. I probably should have cut her loose a while ago.
> I went out with this women on Friday for a date. We had a met before and had had sex. I kind of picked up on some red flags, but I thought it might be nervousness or just me.
> Wow! She turned out to be one of the most self absorbed persons I have ever met. At the same time she seemed completely un-self aware that she was even doing it. She was just an unhappy woman, who felt she was entitled and wasn't getting her expectations met and had no problem saying so.
> She lived in the past. Always talked about her kids, and how great they are, while complaining they never see her. She hated where she lived and wanted to move back from where she came from. She was a walking talking contrast.
> At the studio/bar we went to she started arguing with a guy about his wife (she didn't know them, but had her opinions on how he should treat her), how to make sauce (nobody from here knows how to make sauce), being Italian, etc. etc. She jumped all over the place in some sort of stream of (semi) consciousness way. She went to the rest room at one point. That guy told me she was nuts and I agreed.
> She was that way with me as well. If I touched her, it made her uncomfortable, but then she would grab me kiss me passionately at the bar. If I said one thing, she would say another. Sometimes in direct contrast to something else that she had just said.
> I honestly couldn't wait for the date to end. I left when I got back to her place. I haven't heard from her since and honestly, if she does, while I am torn between telling her to get help or just ignoring her. I think I will just ignore her. She has some serious issues that go so deep that I don't even think she is aware of.


Yikes! Best to ghost in this type of case.


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> Oh well live and learn. I probably should have cut her loose a while ago.
> I went out with this women on Friday for a date. We had a met before and had had sex. I kind of picked up on some red flags, but I thought it might be nervousness or just me.
> Wow! She turned out to be one of the most self absorbed persons I have ever met. At the same time she seemed completely un-self aware that she was even doing it. She was just an unhappy woman, who felt she was entitled and wasn't getting her expectations met and had no problem saying so.
> She lived in the past. Always talked about her kids, and how great they are, while complaining they never see her. She hated where she lived and wanted to move back from where she came from. She was a walking talking contrast.
> At the studio/bar we went to she started arguing with a guy about his wife (she didn't know them, but had her opinions on how he should treat her), how to make sauce (nobody from here knows how to make sauce), being Italian, etc. etc. She jumped all over the place in some sort of stream of (semi) consciousness way. She went to the rest room at one point. That guy told me she was nuts and I agreed.
> She was that way with me as well. If I touched her, it made her uncomfortable, but then she would grab me kiss me passionately at the bar. If I said one thing, she would say another. Sometimes in direct contrast to something else that she had just said.
> I honestly couldn't wait for the date to end. I left when I got back to her place. I haven't heard from her since and honestly, if she does, while I am torn between telling her to get help or just ignoring her. I think I will just ignore her. She has some serious issues that go so deep that I don't even think she is aware of.


Run away! Run away!


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Run away! Run away!


Yea, I was just thinking about the conversation she had with the guy at the bar. She belittled his actions with his wife. She denigrated his college. He was trying to be nice to her and just have a conversation with us. 
When she went to the rest room, he told me, the same thing as you did. I should have left her there. But my car was at her house.


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## honcho

Ynot said:


> Yea, I was just thinking about the conversation she had with the guy at the bar. She belittled his actions with his wife. She denigrated his college. He was trying to be nice to her and just have a conversation with us.
> When she went to the rest room, he told me, the same thing as you did. I should have left her there. But my car was at her house.


That's why I always take my car! I've had too many dates just like yours.


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## john117

Faithful Wife said:


> Yikes! Best to ghost in this type of case.


Can I have her number? I like challenges 

Seriously, that's the fear of the unknown part in dating... The nabbing suspicion that there's something deeper going on. Younger people don't often pick up on such details but a few decades more make one veeeeery weary...


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> Yea, I was just thinking about the conversation she had with the guy at the bar. She belittled his actions with his wife. She denigrated his college. He was trying to be nice to her and just have a conversation with us.
> 
> When she went to the rest room, he told me, the same thing as you did. I should have left her there. But my car was at her house.


Like @honcho said, the possibility of needing to make a quick exit or getaway in the event of a date going badly is key. As a woman, I may be more aware of this need in terms of my personal safety--it may not occur to men as often.

For the first date (and potentially even for the second one third), I will only meet in a public place, and insist on having/providing my own transportation. Until I can feel comfortable and trust that a guy isn't crazy, he won't be picking me up or know where I live. If that's problem for him, that's a major red flag right there.

And the way someone treats/behaves with others is a huge indicator regarding their personality. I would have been out of there pretty quick, and if you could have, I bet you would have been, too.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Can I have her number? I like challenges
> 
> Seriously, that's the fear of the unknown part in dating... The nabbing suspicion that there's something deeper going on. Younger people don't often pick up on such details but a few decades more make one veeeeery weary...


You learn fast at our age, john. You see it quickly and know which way to run.

Also, some people are massively screwed up, but it’s not in a way that makes a relationship with them impossible.

Those ones can be, like you said, a fun challenge. My rebound boyfriend was really messed up in his head by several incredibly horrendous events that had occurred in his life. He definitely had PTSD, and maybe some other disorders. But these things caused issues in his life that I only had to respond to with empathy and support. It did not cause him to treat me badly, it did not cause him to be a crappy partner, it did not cause him to play weird emotional games with me. He was somewhat aware of how messed up he was but I would not call him self aware completely. He was mostly unaware of what his triggers were, for instance. Actually he probably doesn’t even know what a trigger is, he thinks that his triggered reactions to things are normal and logical (they aren’t).

He was sweet, kind, loving, affectionate, protective and admiring of me. Sometimes he was fatherly (in a cute way), and sometimes he would tell me that I was the wise, kind and nurturing earth mother who he admired. Our sex life was great.

So even totally messed up people can have good relationships.

Now if he was just a nasty person, like what Ynot described of his date, then I would not have even had a second/third date with my rebound guy. No matter how good he was to me, if he was a complete ass to everyone else, NEXT.


----------



## Ynot

john117 said:


> Can I have her number? I like challenges
> 
> Seriously, that's the fear of the unknown part in dating... The nabbing suspicion that there's something deeper going on. Younger people don't often pick up on such details but a few decades more make one veeeeery weary...


Unless you can prescribe some serious meds, I do not think there is any meeting this challenge. She was extremely self absorbed while being completely un aware as one can be. My non-trained analysis is that she is a bi-polar narcissistic alcoholic. I don't even know if a script or two would even begin to touch her issues.


----------



## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Like @honcho said, the possibility of needing to make a quick exit or getaway in the event of a date going badly is key. As a woman, I may be more aware of this need in terms of my personal safety--it may not occur to men as often.
> 
> For the first date (and potentially even for the second one third), I will only meet in a public place, and insist on having/providing my own transportation. Until I can feel comfortable and trust that a guy isn't crazy, he won't be picking me up or know where I live. If that's problem for him, that's a major red flag right there.
> 
> And the way someone treats/behaves with others is a huge indicator regarding their personality. I would have been out of there pretty quick, and if you could have, I bet you would have been, too.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I normally do drive. But as I said we had met before. This was what she considered a first date (I guess the first time didn't count since we both drove somewhere to meet). She told me she wanted to be treated like a lady. So I tried to oblige. Then she acted like a total witch with a capital B. Not just to me, but to almost every one she came in contact with. I keep remembering more stuff that happened and things she said. I am sure if I even attempted to tell her she would deny any of it ever happened. But not remembering stuff is another thing I realized she was good at.


----------



## AVR1962

Ynot said:


> Oh well live and learn. I probably should have cut her loose a while ago.
> I went out with this women on Friday for a date. We had a met before and had had sex. I kind of picked up on some red flags, but I thought it might be nervousness or just me.
> Wow! She turned out to be one of the most self absorbed persons I have ever met. At the same time she seemed completely un-self aware that she was even doing it. She was just an unhappy woman, who felt she was entitled and wasn't getting her expectations met and had no problem saying so.
> She lived in the past. Always talked about her kids, and how great they are, while complaining they never see her. She hated where she lived and wanted to move back from where she came from. She was a walking talking contrast.
> At the studio/bar we went to she started arguing with a guy about his wife (she didn't know them, but had her opinions on how he should treat her), how to make sauce (nobody from here knows how to make sauce), being Italian, etc. etc. She jumped all over the place in some sort of stream of (semi) consciousness way. She went to the rest room at one point. That guy told me she was nuts and I agreed.
> She was that way with me as well. If I touched her, it made her uncomfortable, but then she would grab me kiss me passionately at the bar. If I said one thing, she would say another. Sometimes in direct contrast to something else that she had just said.
> I honestly couldn't wait for the date to end. I left when I got back to her place. I haven't heard from her since and honestly, if she does, while I am torn between telling her to get help or just ignoring her. I think I will just ignore her. She has some serious issues that go so deep that I don't even think she is aware of.


I have a few lady friends like this, I have it to be the ones without children. Live and learn!! What do you do to weed out the ladies before you actually meet?


----------



## Ynot

AVR1962 said:


> I have a few lady friends like this, I have it to be the ones without children. Live and learn!! What do you do to weed out the ladies before you actually meet?


I have seen it in both women with or without children. Also in women in women who have never been married and also in divorced women. I do not think it all women or any particular subset of women, I think though that this type of thinking tends to include various types of women.
Usually before we meet, we talk. That was the case this time. We texted and talked for about 3 weeks before we ever met (I was on a trip, otherwise we would have met much sooner). As I said, I had sort of noticed some red flags, but ignored them as I assumed some nervousness on her part and also because I think sometimes I may be overly sensitive to them, that I can exaggerate them.
Anyways, the first time we met, she seemed OK. But, wow, going out on that date with her and seeing her in an that environment and dealing with her BS. That topped it off. I haven't heard from her since. So good riddance to bad rubbish. I am not going to be her KISA or an orbiter. I don't have the time, nor the patience for it anymore. There are many much more normal women out there in the world to spend time with.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Have a second mini date lined up for tomorrow with Mr. Hotness. I might even get a little canoodling. I’m quite looking forward to getting my hands on him and getting his on me.
> 
> I am not sure right now if there will be much depth to this or it’s is going to be mostly physical between us. I’m good either way. If my first impression of him was correct, this could be a very nice thing for both of us. I’m not trying to find someone to fall madly in love with. Though if that happens, great. What works fine for me is just mutual fondness and respect and generally being totally into each other sexually.
> 
> He deleted his bumble app (he told me right after our first date that he was going to and he did). I put mine on indefinite snooze. No need to keep swiping or talking to others when I’ve got something this good lined up.
> 
> We still have an evening date for karaoke on Monday or Tuesday. That should be fun too, though I’m not clear on if he will actually sing with me or not. I hope he does but I understand when people don’t want to. I’m gonna sing me some Diana Ross.


How did the date with Mr. hotness go FW?


----------



## Lila

I have a dilemma. 

Been chatting for about 10 days with someone I met online. He and I met in person almost immediately after we matched online. There was definite chemistry. Neither one of us go out while we have custody of our kids so we haven't seen each other except for that first date. He contacts me every day either by phone or text. So what's the problem? This is our week off from kids and he hasn't asked me out again. I've even dropped the hint that I'd like to go out again and he's said he's interested. Have I been friend zoned? I do seem to be getting friend zoned a lot which doesn't bother me at all but if I am getting friend zoned with this guy, I would like to know so that I can ask him to come out to my next meetup and be my wingman.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I have a dilemma.
> 
> Been chatting for about 10 days with someone I met online. He and I met in person almost immediately after we matched online. There was definite chemistry. Neither one of us go out while we have custody of our kids so we haven't seen each other except for that first date. He contacts me every day either by phone or text. So what's the problem? This is our week off from kids and he hasn't asked me out again. I've even dropped the hint that I'd like to go out again and he's said he's interested. Have I been friend zoned? I do seem to be getting friend zoned a lot which doesn't bother me at all but if I am getting friend zoned with this guy, I would like to know so that I can ask him to come out to my next meetup and be my wingman.


Are you saying there was definite chemistry, but you would be ok with being friend zoned, and actually want to make him your wingman? Just making sure I understand.

My date...all of my friends laughed about this...so I was supposed to go meet him on Sunday at about 8:30, but by 7:30 I was in my bed watching Netflix and I realized....eh, I don't really want to get out of bed and drive across town. Not even to get some canoodling! :laugh:

So I rain checked him and he has been busy since, so I think we have a date tomorrow or Thursday or both.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a dilemma.
> 
> Been chatting for about 10 days with someone I met online. He and I met in person almost immediately after we matched online. There was definite chemistry. Neither one of us go out while we have custody of our kids so we haven't seen each other except for that first date. He contacts me every day either by phone or text. So what's the problem? This is our week off from kids and he hasn't asked me out again. I've even dropped the hint that I'd like to go out again and he's said he's interested. Have I been friend zoned? I do seem to be getting friend zoned a lot which doesn't bother me at all but if I am getting friend zoned with this guy, I would like to know so that I can ask him to come out to my next meetup and be my wingman.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying there was definite chemistry, but you would be ok with being friend zoned, and actually want to make him your wingman? Just making sure I understand.
Click to expand...

That's what's I'm saying. I like him. He's told me (and thrown out enough innuendo to make me believe) he's interested in me. I'd like for him to ask me out for a second date but am okay if he just wants to stay friends. He's a good, stand up guy and you can never have enough of those around even as friends. 



> My date...all of my friends laughed about this...so I was supposed to go meet him on Sunday at about 8:30, but by 7:30 I was in my bed watching Netflix and I realized....eh, I don't really want to get out of bed and drive across town. Not even to get some canoodling! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>
> 
> So I rain checked him and he has been busy since, so I think we have a date tomorrow or Thursday or both.


Lol. That's funny FW but I'm glad you two were able to reschedule.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> I have a dilemma.
> 
> Been chatting for about 10 days with someone I met online. He and I met in person almost immediately after we matched online. There was definite chemistry. Neither one of us go out while we have custody of our kids so we haven't seen each other except for that first date. He contacts me every day either by phone or text. So what's the problem? This is our week off from kids and he hasn't asked me out again. I've even dropped the hint that I'd like to go out again and he's said he's interested. Have I been friend zoned? I do seem to be getting friend zoned a lot which doesn't bother me at all but if I am getting friend zoned with this guy, I would like to know so that I can ask him to come out to my next meetup and be my wingman.


Actually you only think you have a dilemma. The reality is that if this guy doesn't get the hint and/or just wants to be friends, there are always plenty of fish in the sea. Don't hang your hat on hopes for this guy. He who hesitates is lost. If it is meant to be, it will be. So if he is interested, but you have found something or someone better to occupy his time. It is his loss, not yours. Just keep living, being positive and putting yourself first.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Actually you only think you have a dilemma. The reality is that if this guy doesn't get the hint and/or just wants to be friends, there are always plenty of fish in the sea. Don't hang your hat on hopes for this guy. He who hesitates is lost. If it is meant to be, it will be. So if he is interested, but you have found something or someone better to occupy his time. It is his loss, not yours. Just keep living, being positive and putting yourself first.


I don't necessarily think there's more fish in the sea for me but you're right, I just gotta keep on keeping on. 

One positive...I am making lots of new friends who are willing to help me out. Now if I could just find a FWB, I could get all my needs met, just by different people.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> I don't necessarily think there's more fish in the sea for me but you're right, I just gotta keep on keeping on.
> 
> One positive...I am making lots of new friends who are willing to help me out. Now if I could just find a FWB, I could get all my needs met, just by different people.


Oh, there are always more fish in the sea. Think in terms of abundance, not scarcity. The universe will provide what ever you are looking for. As for getting all needs met by various people, that is a good thing. One that may grow on you. I have come to realize that I would rather have it that way, than ever labor under the expectations of a traditional relationship ever again.


----------



## Openminded

That's the great thing about being single -- options to do whatever you want and to make your life however you want it.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't necessarily think there's more fish in the sea for me but you're right, I just gotta keep on keeping on.
> 
> One positive...I am making lots of new friends who are willing to help me out. Now if I could just find a FWB, I could get all my needs met, just by different people.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, there are always more fish in the sea. Think in terms of abundance, not scarcity. The universe will provide what ever you are looking for.
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase, I don't necessarily think there's more of the type of fish I like to catch. 😉



> As for getting all needs met by various people, that is a good thing. One that may grow on you. I have come to realize that I would rather have it that way, than ever labor under the expectations of a traditional relationship ever again.


I'm starting to realize getting needs met by various people is good. The key for me is to accept the good things they offer at face value and not dig too deeply at what they don't.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> Let me rephrase, I don't necessarily think there's more of the type of fish I like to catch. 😉
> 
> 
> 
> I'm starting to realize getting needs met by various people is good. The key for me is to accept the good things they offer at face value and not dig too deeply at what they don't.


There are all sorts of the type of fish you would like to catch. One of the fun things about it is finding out how and where to catch them! Too many people look at this as chore and feel entitled to instant gratification. Then when they don't get it, they give up and say there is no one out there for me, so I am just going to stay home every night binge watching TV.
Also getting your needs met by various people is a very good thing. One that many people fail to see the value in. Instead they focus on one person. When that person is unavailable or moves on, they are left hanging with no one to satisfy any of their needs.


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## john117

Openminded said:


> That's the great thing about being single -- options to do whatever you want and to make your life however you want it.


I'm holding it wrong then... Singlehood is a lot of work


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> I'm holding it wrong then... Singlehood is a lot of work



Hey single pal, here’s my pep speech. :smile2:

It’s still early days for you. The D isn’t final, right? Also you are going through a D and an empty nest at once, right?

Yes, it is hard when we have to do all this readjusting and people are moving and so are you, blah blah blah. I’ve moved 3 times in 3 years. And I’m sure I have a lot more help than you do. So yah. Suckage.

But you do eventually get into this amazing groove with yourself, in your home, your work, the rest of your life. Once things settle for you and you move past the D crap (probably another year from now, but it will fly by), you end up enjoying the space and freedom. And anything that is still a lot of work, you find ways to make it less work or you realize you get to prioritize things as you wish. So if it’s just too much work, you chuck it. Hobbies, people (like bad friends who aren’t really friends), drama, old worn out things or never used things, or projects you beat yourself for not getting to...one day you wake up and go, why the hell am I requiring myself to do a project I don’t want to do and then beating myself for not doing it!? Project, chucked. 

You’ll know when you get there, a shift happens and you find this place. Ahhhhhhhh.....

After that you’ll want a girlfriend. :laugh: Or a ****ton of cats...


----------



## Ynot

john117 said:


> I'm holding it wrong then... Singlehood is a lot of work


Oh, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but the reward makes it all worth it. Yes it does require a lot of work. In fact I would say it requires much more work that simply ceding your personal sovereignty to another while in a relationship. Now that you are free of the burden of allowing your future to be determined by others, you have the opportunity to become the person you always had the potential to be. 
In many ways I have come to admire more, all the independent, self directed people who are living to their potentials than those who submit to the will of another.
But it takes time and doesn't happen over night. There are always reasons why people become or remain single, far too often they waste their opportunities pursuing relations with others while ignoring the relationship they can develop with them self.


----------



## Openminded

john117 said:


> I'm holding it wrong then... Singlehood is a lot of work


It can be an adjustment in the beginning. I moved three times in the first three years after my divorce before I settled in but I don't mind moving around so that was kind of fun. I also gave up most of the material things acquired during my long marriage but I don't miss them. The more I down-sized the better I felt and now I prefer life as a minimalist. But the greatest feeling for me was the freedom to choose among endless options for my new life. I married very young and never had that freedom before marriage or during my decades as a wife. I could never go back to my old life.


----------



## john117

Thanks, FW... I really needed that video... Hopefully the paperwork will be done by springs end....

I think what bothers me is that there's no next challenge. I've sort of challenged myself at work but not at the personal or interpersonal level. I'm seriously thinking about changing jobs, mostly into an R&D only environment... Maybe WPAFB if I can stomach living in Dayton. 

What bothers me is that I feel drained. Like, there are days I come home, make a ham and cheese sandwich, then lay down and read or play Angry Birds till bedtime. I wasn't like that. Not depressed, just not interested.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Thanks, FW... I really needed that video... Hopefully the paperwork will be done by springs end....
> 
> I think what bothers me is that there's no next challenge. I've sort of challenged myself at work but not at the personal or interpersonal level. I'm seriously thinking about changing jobs, mostly into an R&D only environment... Maybe WPAFB if I can stomach living in Dayton.
> 
> What bothers me is that I feel drained. Like, there are days I come home, make a ham and cheese sandwich, then lay down and read or play Angry Birds till bedtime. I wasn't like that. Not depressed, just not interested.


I know you are a 100% logically driven man.

But divorce and empty nesting are both times in life when grieving happens. That’s at least part of what you’re experiencing right now. 

It will pass. You can’t skip past it, sorry. But it passes. And along the way you will find things you want to get interested in again.

You will. I promise.


----------



## hope4family

Hey @john117

No matter the circumstance or reasoning. I am sorry you are going through your divorce. In my opinion, the details, if ever, rarely matter. I did a lot of Netflix bidge watching when going through my divorce. I also was a fresh single Father of a 1 year old to. So it didn't allow me to get out much either. The point if me mentioning that, is having time to yourself, just to burn the time so to speak. Is just necessary, and doesn't have much to do with circumstances. 

In time, it will pass and you will breathe air again.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> There are all sorts of the type of fish you would like to catch. One of the fun things about it is finding out how and where to catch them! Too many people look at this as chore and feel entitled to instant gratification. Then when they don't get it, they give up and say there is no one out there for me, so I am just going to stay home every night binge watching TV.


I'll admit I've given up, and no really there is no one out there for me, BUT I'm sure as **** not staying home and binge watching TV. I do like socializing and people watching. So I attend social events and watch interactions. It's fascinating.


----------



## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> I'll admit I've given up, and no really there is no one out there for me, BUT I'm sure as **** not staying home and binge watching TV. I do like socializing and people watching. So I attend social events and watch interactions. It's fascinating.


Lila, you've been single/newly divorced for, like, a minute. It's too soon to give up and say there is no one out there for you. It also may be too soon for you to start looking for someone else.

Take this time and focus on yourself. Once you've done that, and you adjust to your new reality, and you start to really love yourself and love life again... you'll start to notice men again, and they will come out of the woodwork.

There is only "no one for me" I'd you consciously decide there is no one for you. The universe (and other people) pick up on that energy, and potential partners stay away.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Lila

john117 said:


> Thanks, FW... I really needed that video... Hopefully the paperwork will be done by springs end....
> 
> I think what bothers me is that there's no next challenge. I've sort of challenged myself at work but not at the personal or interpersonal level. I'm seriously thinking about changing jobs, mostly into an R&D only environment... Maybe WPAFB if I can stomach living in Dayton.
> 
> *What bothers me is that I feel drained. Like, there are days I come home, make a ham and cheese sandwich, then lay down and read or play Angry Birds till bedtime. I wasn't like that. Not depressed, just not interested*.


I know that feeling well. You feel flat like you've lost your vibrancy. I can tell you that it gets better but I don't believe we'll ever be back to that same level of vibrancy we were before. More muted, possibly different hues, but never the same.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I know that feeling well. You feel flat like you've lost your vibrancy. I can tell you that it gets better but I don't believe we'll ever be back to that same level of vibrancy we were before. More muted, possibly different hues, but never the same.


I know you feel there is no one for you and that you will never feel the joy in life you once felt...and I felt something like that in my early days too, but it does pass. It takes time. I know we can’t convince you right now, but you’ll see it in your own eventually.

My update...no update or date. Mr. Hotness apparently misunderstood my parameters for a relationship or I misunderstood his. So no reason to go on any more dates with him (we only had one).

No harm, no foul. He’s still a great guy but not for me. Onwards!


----------



## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> I know you feel there is no one for you and that you will never feel the joy in life you once felt...and I felt something like that in my early days too, but it does pass. It takes time. I know we can’t convince you right now, but you’ll see it in your own eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> My update...no update or date. Mr. Hotness apparently misunderstood my parameters for a relationship or I misunderstood his. So no reason to go on any more dates with him (we only had one).
> 
> 
> 
> No harm, no foul. He’s still a great guy but not for me. Onwards!




Curiosity killed the cat...what did he misunderstand?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> Lila, you've been single/newly divorced for, like, a minute. It's too soon to give up and say there is no one out there for you. It also may be too soon for you to start looking for someone else.
> 
> Take this time and focus on yourself. Once you've done that, and you adjust to your new reality, and you start to really love yourself and love life again... you'll start to notice men again, and they will come out of the woodwork.
> 
> There is only "no one for me" I'd you consciously decide there is no one for you. The universe (and other people) pick up on that energy, and potential partners stay away.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


It does seem like it hasn't been long since I divorced but I've been "single", living entirely on my own for 6 months. Because of the suddenness of everything, I have had to adjust to my new reality really quick. The learning curve was veeery steep but I'm doing okay now. 

It's not in my personality to dwell on the past. I'm looking ahead and not seeing anything of real interest for me personally but I am still enjoying life. There is less naivety and more cautiousness in the way I experience life but it's not awful or painful. 

And it's not that I don't notice men, trust me I notice, but it's about finding mutual attraction (all of the way around). It has been a minefield for me IRL that's why I decided to try online dating, which has turned out to be a better experience than I would have hoped for even though none of the men I've dated have worked out beyond friends. It's still been fun but it reinforces to me that there's "no one for me".


----------



## Lila

Elizabeth001 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know you feel there is no one for you and that you will never feel the joy in life you once felt...and I felt something like that in my early days too, but it does pass. It takes time. I know we can’t convince you right now, but you’ll see it in your own eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> My update...no update or date. Mr. Hotness apparently misunderstood my parameters for a relationship or I misunderstood his. So no reason to go on any more dates with him (we only had one).
> 
> 
> 
> No harm, no foul. He’s still a great guy but not for me. Onwards!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curiosity killed the cat...what did he misunderstand?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah this ^^^


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> It does seem like it hasn't been long since I divorced but I've been "single", living entirely on my own for 6 months. Because of the suddenness of everything, I have had to adjust to my new reality really quick. The learning curve was veeery steep but I'm doing okay now.
> 
> It's not in my personality to dwell on the past. I'm looking ahead and not seeing anything of real interest for me personally but I am still enjoying life. There is less naivety and more cautiousness in the way I experience life but it's not awful or painful.
> 
> And it's not that I don't notice men, trust me I notice, but it's about finding mutual attraction (all of the way around). It has been a minefield for me IRL that's why I decided to try online dating, which has turned out to be a better experience than I would have hoped for even though none of the men I've dated have worked out beyond friends. It's still been fun but it reinforces to me that there's "no one for me".


Girl...wow. Exactly how many dates have you been on with different men? I’m thinking you must be under the impression that one or two guys come by and one of them is a good match? No way! That only happens once in awhile and when it does, it’s not because those two people are somehow better at dating or have more matches than anyone else. Most people have to date quite a few before they find a match. At this point in your process, you aren’t ready for a “forever” match right now anyway. Is that what you are hoping for? I can see that if you feel Mr. Next Big Thing in your life is going to appear this soon, you’ll be disappointed.

Re: Mr. Hotness. I think he believed we would be heading straight for sex, and then was annoyed when that’s not how it went. When I cancelled on him Sunday, the only thing we were going to do was that I was going to go to his place and had promised him a back massage. I just wanted to get my hands all over his body, and maybe some make out. So that’s the thing, when I cancelled, all I cancelled on was that I was going to drive to his place and give him a massage. It’s not like we had some kind of important plan, it would have just been an hour of body work and some play.

When I cancelled he said it was fine and we would rain check and he would also let me know what day this week he could go to karaoke with me. The last text I sent was yesterday and said “can’t wait to go to karaoke” and no response.

So I made the assumption that going to karaoke was not a thing he wanted to do after I didn’t go to his house and rub his back.

And that’s all good. Some people feel the need to rush things, to prove something to themselves maybe. Like oh, if she doesn’t just jump in bed with me immediately, she must not be very sexual.

*****, please.

Some of us just know that sex is part of an adult and there’s no rush. Even if it will be a mostly sexual relationship, I need to know you a bit first, jeez. And by that I mean, I need to know by being around you a bit if you do or say things that turn me off. It’s not like I need to know a guys full life or resume first. But I do need to feel we are on the same page.

The best sexual relationships I’ve had have always been with men who didn’t feel the need to rush, because they aren’t trying to prove they can nail someone, they instead actually want to observe me a bit and make sure I’m for real, that I’m balanced, that I have a good head on my shoulders.

I’m suspicious of men who want to rush, not because I think they are creeps, but because to me it means they are just trying to prove something to themselves or that they aren’t great lovers. Because great lovers are in no hurry, they want to know all about you and make informed decisions. Just being “hot” isn’t enough.


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## Ynot

@Lila and @john117, what both of you are feeling at this moment is completely natural and healthy. Both of you have lived lives dedicated to something aside from your selves for a long time. Now that source or sources of dedication are gone and you are wondering what to do next with your lives. I went through that, and I still go through it today, although not as often. As time passes you will begin to develop new interests, new goals, a new life. But it takes time.
The time it takes depends on how much you are willing to focus on your self. Do not focus on what you had. Do not focus on what you want (mainly because at this point you really don't have a clue). Instead focus on what you are and how you feel. Become curious. Explore your self and the world around you. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. In fact stop considering anything a mistake. Instead look at them as learning points. Take the Thomas Edison approach towards life, you didn't make 10,000 mistakes, you only discovered 10,000 ways not to do something. And if you are living in the present, you will discover multitudes of ways to do something else along the way. 
Everything in your life has brought you to this point. Now for the first time, in probably forever, you get to decide which way to go for your self, without the restrictions of a relationship, family, society or religion. Seize this time in your life and live up to your potential. The world is yours for the taking, take it!


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Girl...wow. Exactly how many dates have you been on with different men? I’m thinking you must be under the impression that one or two guys come by and one of them is a good match? No way! That only happens once in awhile and when it does, it’s not because those two people are somehow better at dating or have more matches than anyone else. Most people have to date quite a few before they find a match. At this point in your process, you aren’t ready for a “forever” match right now anyway. Is that what you are hoping for? I can see that if you feel Mr. Next Big Thing in your life is going to appear this soon, you’ll be disappointed.


I went on a quite a few dates with three guys I met IRL last year after ex moved out. All three were great except for the fact that one was married (told me after our 5th date?), one was polyamorous (told me after our 3rd date), and the last one was perpetually broke (went out a handful of times). 

Since joining online dating on 1/4/19, I have been on 5 first dates and 1 second date. I am not good at messaging and make it clear that I want to meet in person quickly. I have two more first dates scheduled this week, but neither are my type. We just happen to start up great conversations that are best had in person. 

I think that's the most disappointing thing of all. I'm not looking for Mr. Next Big Thing or Mr Forever, which makes it possible for me to overlook a lot of "must haves" I would otherwise need, and I'm still not finding someone with whom I share mutual attraction. The closest I got was the married guy I met last year. He was everything I wanted except he was married. So yeah, kind of given up on finding single men. 




> Re: Mr. Hotness. I think he believed we would be heading straight for sex, and then was annoyed when that’s not how it went. When I cancelled on him Sunday, the only thing we were going to do was that I was going to go to his place and had promised him a back massage. I just wanted to get my hands all over his body, and maybe some make out. So that’s the thing, when I cancelled, all I cancelled on was that I was going to drive to his place and give him a massage. It’s not like we had some kind of important plan, it would have just been an hour of body work and some play.
> 
> When I cancelled he said it was fine and we would rain check and he would also let me know what day this week he could go to karaoke with me. The last text I sent was yesterday and said “can’t wait to go to karaoke” and no response.
> 
> So I made the assumption that going to karaoke was not a thing he wanted to do after I didn’t go to his house and rub his back.
> 
> And that’s all good. Some people feel the need to rush things, to prove something to themselves maybe. Like oh, if she doesn’t just jump in bed with me immediately, she must not be very sexual.
> 
> *****, please.
> 
> Some of us just know that sex is part of an adult and there’s no rush. Even if it will be a mostly sexual relationship, I need to know you a bit first, jeez. And by that I mean, I need to know by being around you a bit if you do or say things that turn me off. It’s not like I need to know a guys full life or resume first. But I do need to feel we are on the same page.
> 
> The best sexual relationships I’ve had have always been with men who didn’t feel the need to rush, because they aren’t trying to prove they can nail someone, they instead actually want to observe me a bit and make sure I’m for real, that I’m balanced, that I have a good head on my shoulders.
> 
> I’m suspicious of men who want to rush, not because I think they are creeps, but because to me it means they are just trying to prove something to themselves or that they aren’t great lovers. Because great lovers are in no hurry, they want to know all about you and make informed decisions. Just being “hot” isn’t enough.


He hasn't responded to your message about karaoke?


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I went on a quite a few dates with three guys I met IRL last year after ex moved out. All three were great except for the fact that one was married (told me after our 5th date?), one was polyamorous (told me after our 3rd date), and the last one was perpetually broke (went out a handful of times).
> 
> Since joining online dating on 1/4/19, I have been on 5 first dates and 1 second date. I am not good at messaging and make it clear that I want to meet in person quickly. I have two more first dates scheduled this week, but neither are my type. We just happen to start up great conversations that are best had in person.
> 
> I think that's the most disappointing thing of all. I'm not looking for Mr. Next Big Thing or Mr Forever, which makes it possible for me to overlook a lot of "must haves" I would otherwise need, and I'm still not finding someone with whom I share mutual attraction. The closest I got was the married guy I met last year. He was everything I wanted except he was married. So yeah, kind of given up on finding single men.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He hasn't responded to your message about karaoke?


Ok...well, I do hear you. And I'm not saying at all that good matches are frequent and common, it takes some work to end up in the same place at the same time. If you want to be convinced there just aren't any matches out there for you, ok, you can be convinced of that. None of us will ever agree, though. We just know it takes time. 

Mr. Hotness...nope! We were texting on Sunday after I cancelled, about rescheduling for karaoke. He said he would have to check his schedule (his job sometimes requires evening meetings) for what night would work. I didn't hear anything from him Monday. On Tuesday morning I texted "good morning" and he replied almost immediately with "hey there". I then said "I can't wait to go to karaoke!" and nothing from him.

So I can only make assumptions. I'm guessing after we met, he wants to skip all other outings and just get cozy? But I don't know that either, since he did not say that. 

But things like this happen and there's no reason to wonder about it any further than that. One good date with chemistry is not anything to hang your hat on. Also, I always give people the benefit of the doubt. It may be nothing like what I assume, so I just drop it and wish them well (in my head) and move on.

I did get a couple of freaking incredibly hot pics of him (not his ****) and since all I knew about him was his hotness, this is my little souvenir. :grin2:


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## FeministInPink

@Lila and @john117, I want to say "ditto" to everything that @faithfulwife and @Ynot posted. You are both still very early in the stages of post-divorce. And it DOES get different and better, if you want it to. The first step if having a positive attitude. And @Lila... six months post divorce is like a minute. You haven't been out long at all.

I didn't start dating until 9 months post-divorce, and my XH had been separated for almost a year when our divorce had been finalized. It took 1.5 yrs of dating before I met Real Estate, who was the first person that was actually a good match for me, but he obviously wasn't the best match for me, because the relationship didn't last.

You may never be who you were before, but that's not a bad thing. You can be just as good as before, if not better than before. I am happier and better off (and emotionally healthier) than I was when I met my XH; while I miss Real Estate, I know that I am better than I was before I met him, and while I have my moments of sadness and melancholy now, I know they will pass, and I will find new happiness from within, and I will eventually meet someone else who is a better fit for me. And if I don't, that doesn't mean that with Real Estate I missed out on my only chance, it just means that I love myself enough not to accept less than I deserve.

Happiness comes from within, not from someone else.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

I don't care who you are or what your situation was, unless you were totally physically separated for an extended period of time before you divorce, you still have to go through a period of adjustment to your new reality. I see time again, hear it a lot as well from women I have dated, and said it myself, that the marriage had been over for a while before it legally ended. But it still doesn't change the fact that you have to develop new attitudes, new ideas and a new approach towards life.
Yes, you may not have been alone while you were married, but you were still married (whatever that idea meant to you). Post-divorce, you are suddenly free to make your world into whatever you want it to be. That doesn't happen over night (at least not to healthy people). Some may adjust sooner rather than later. Some never adjust at all. The either jump right back into another committed relationship or choose to close down and cower alone and defeated. 
How you choose to adjust is up to you. You may decide a series of FB or FWBs is all you need. You might eventually decide to make a go at another relationship. You might decide to engage with the world and take whatever comes. Or any number of other choices. But ultimately the choice is all yours to enjoy.


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## sunsetmist

The 'change is hard' phase is like riding a roller coaster blindfolded (front seat) with forward route unknown--since all paths differ. 'Tis sometimes exhilarating, sometimes scary, often with second guessing. I spent lots of time in my head too--not necessarily helpful.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> I don't care who you are or what your situation was, unless you were totally physically separated for an extended period of time before you divorce, you still have to go through a period of adjustment to your new reality. I see time again, hear it a lot as well from women I have dated, and said it myself, that the marriage had been over for a while before it legally ended. But it still doesn't change the fact that you have to develop new attitudes, new ideas and a new approach towards life.
> 
> Yes, you may not have been alone while you were married, but you were still married (whatever that idea meant to you). Post-divorce, you are suddenly free to make your world into whatever you want it to be. That doesn't happen over night (at least not to healthy people). Some may adjust sooner rather than later. Some never adjust at all. The either jump right back into another committed relationship or choose to close down and cower alone and defeated.
> 
> How you choose to adjust is up to you. You may decide a series of FB or FWBs is all you need. You might eventually decide to make a go at another relationship. You might decide to engage with the world and take whatever comes. Or any number of other choices. But ultimately the choice is all yours to enjoy.


I agree! I spent many years of my marriage living essentially like I was single, because the XH and I had opposing work schedules, which meant I only saw him on Sundays (the day we both had off work) and for a few hours on Saturday afternoons and Wednesday evenings. I basically never had someone to come home to, spend the evening with, or even share my life with. I had LOTS of time before he moved out to adjust to life without him. Despite that and the fact that we were separated for almost a year with almost entirely no contact, it still took me a long time after everything was final to adjust. It's an ongoing process which I've learned is never finished, and I find myself doing it again now that I'm single again.

There will always be endings in your life, whether it be jobs, loss of a loved one or a friendship, or the end of a romantic relationship. And these endings always leave in their wake a period of adjustment, change and growth. One can be resistant to them, making the process harder, or you can embrace the opportunity for growth and change, and take advantage to make the most of it. 

The choice is yours.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> I don't care who you are or what your situation was, unless you were totally physically separated for an extended period of time before you divorce, you still have to go through a period of adjustment to your new reality. I see time again, hear it a lot as well from women I have dated, and said it myself, that the marriage had been over for a while before it legally ended. But it still doesn't change the fact that you have to develop new attitudes, new ideas and a new approach towards life.
> 
> Yes, you may not have been alone while you were married, but you were still married (whatever that idea meant to you). Post-divorce, you are suddenly free to make your world into whatever you want it to be. That doesn't happen over night (at least not to healthy people). Some may adjust sooner rather than later. Some never adjust at all. The either jump right back into another committed relationship or choose to close down and cower alone and defeated.
> 
> How you choose to adjust is up to you. You may decide a series of FB or FWBs is all you need. You might eventually decide to make a go at another relationship. You might decide to engage with the world and take whatever comes. Or any number of other choices. But ultimately the choice is all yours to enjoy.




Or you could just tour Florida 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## john117

At this point I need motivation to unpack boxes... Connect the stereo... Etc. The place looks like a Costco (small surprise). 

The last time I felt like that was when I walked out of the psych department large lecture hall after having defended my dissertation. I loved academia and really felt a part of me stayed with the lecture hall... I mean, I went back to my employer as part of my fellowship so it's not that I had to find a job or something, but it's still moving on... A good and bad experience all in one. 

This feels like that.


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## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> Or you could just tour Florida
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That too!


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## Ynot

john117 said:


> At this point I need motivation to unpack boxes... Connect the stereo... Etc. The place looks like a Costco (small surprise).
> 
> The last time I felt like that was when I walked out of the psych department large lecture hall after having defended my dissertation. I loved academia and really felt a part of me stayed with the lecture hall... I mean, I went back to my employer as part of my fellowship so it's not that I had to find a job or something, but it's still moving on... A good and bad experience all in one.
> 
> This feels like that.


Hey 4 plus years later, I still need motivation some times. It is just an element of what you are going through. It will get better. But for now, it is apparent that you really don't need what ever is in those boxes, so don't sweat it. You are living for you now. In fact you might find yourself molting a few times like I have. As someone else said earlier today. I have found that I don't need all the stuff I had before. I am much more of a minimalist that I was when I was married.


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## john117

Ynot said:


> Hey 4 plus years later, I still need motivation some times. It is just an element of what you are going through. It will get better. But for now, it is apparent that you really don't need what ever is in those boxes, so don't sweat it. You are living for you now. In fact you might find yourself molting a few times like I have. As someone else said earlier today. I have found that I don't need all the stuff I had before. I am much more of a minimalist that I was when I was married.


I've always been a minimalist. That's why most furniture is in storage


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## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> At this point I need motivation to unpack boxes... Connect the stereo... Etc. The place looks like a Costco (small surprise).
> 
> The last time I felt like that was when I walked out of the psych department large lecture hall after having defended my dissertation. I loved academia and really felt a part of me stayed with the lecture hall... I mean, I went back to my employer as part of my fellowship so it's not that I had to find a job or something, but it's still moving on... A good and bad experience all in one.
> 
> This feels like that.


((((Hugs)))) and kitty cat emojis with heart eyes. TAM bro support, singles support, empathy, hearts, love, Care Bears. 

Do you watch Crazy Ex Girlfriend? You should! She’s the ****ton of cats lady. Let me find more....


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## Faithful Wife

Warning, some of these are very steamy! Ha ha!


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## Faithful Wife




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## Faithful Wife




----------



## honcho

john117 said:


> Thanks, FW... I really needed that video... Hopefully the paperwork will be done by springs end....
> 
> I think what bothers me is that there's no next challenge. I've sort of challenged myself at work but not at the personal or interpersonal level. I'm seriously thinking about changing jobs, mostly into an R&D only environment... Maybe WPAFB if I can stomach living in Dayton.
> 
> What bothers me is that I feel drained. Like, there are days I come home, make a ham and cheese sandwich, then lay down and read or play Angry Birds till bedtime. I wasn't like that. Not depressed, just not interested.


The not interested phase is common and it can become a rut if not careful. I got into the rut, had a hard time breaking out of it and still find myself at times slipping back in. Sometimes you just have to force interest to get motivated.


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## Faithful Wife

honcho said:


> The not interested phase is common and it can become a rut if not careful. I got into the rut, had a hard time breaking out of it and still find myself at times slipping back in. Sometimes you just have to force interest to get motivated.


Or just get more cats!


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## honcho

Faithful Wife said:


> Or just get more cats!


Last woman I dated broke up with me and went the cat route, she's now got 6 last I heard.....


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I’m suspicious of men who want to rush, not because I think they are creeps, but because to me it means they are just trying to prove something to themselves or that they aren’t great lovers. Because great lovers are in no hurry, they want to know all about you and make informed decisions. Just being “hot” isn’t enough.


This is one of those mutual attraction characteristics I mentioned earlier. I'm like you where I like to take it slowly but most men I've met assume the opposite. I'm naturally outgoing and touchy feely. Apparently that's code for "she is down to ****" so I've learned to tone it down a lot. Last night's date kept telling me I was "reserved". That cracked me up. I guess "reserved" was a nice way of saying "not easy". I'll take that.


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## Lila

@Ynot you said "_Do not focus on what you want (mainly because at this point you really don't have a clue_". 

I think some of us know exactly what we want. I think the better question is "How practical and achievable are your wants?".


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## Lila

sunsetmist said:


> The change is hard phase is like riding a roller coaster blindfolded (front seat) with forward route unknown--since all paths differ. 'Tis sometimes exhilarating, sometimes scary, often with second guessing.



That's a great description! Agreed


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## Lila

Just thought I'd share this. My date last night brought up some of the feedback @Ynot, @FeministInPink, and @faithfulwife have brought up here. He was not my type physically, somewhat obnoxious, but perceptive. 

He freely shared his opinions of me, which I appreciated, but then again it's kind of hard to take his advice seriously considering his intentions. For example, he was trying to encourage me to be selfish with regards to doing things that I want to do. This was in response to me saying that my actions and life decisions have to be considerate of my son. I understand there's some truth to what he said but then again it's hard to take his advice seriously when I know exactly what he had in mind. 

How do I balance doing for me with making sure my son is not impacted? I keep my personal life completely hidden from him.


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Just thought I'd share this. My date last night brought up some of the feedback @Ynot, @FeministInPink, and @faithfulwife have brought up here. He was not my type physically, somewhat obnoxious, but perceptive.
> 
> He freely shared his opinions of me, which I appreciated, but then again it's kind of hard to take his advice seriously considering his intentions. For example, he was trying to encourage me to be selfish with regards to doing things that I want to do. This was in response to me saying that my actions and life decisions have to be considerate of my son. I understand there's some truth to what he said but then again it's hard to take his advice seriously when I know exactly what he had in mind.
> 
> How do I balance doing for me with making sure my son is not impacted? I keep my personal life completely hidden from him.


Do you mean how to keep the knowledge that you are dating away from him?

It’s up to you, but for example, my daughter is going through an S and a D right now. She’s dating a bit, and found a guy she likes, “for now”. She doesn’t want her kids to know, so she uses an alibi (sometimes me) or she may leave the kids with me overnight so she can go on a date, which we have sleepovers anyway so the kids don’t think twice about it.

Her kids are well loved and supported and even if they caught her outright, they would be ok. She’s just trying to keep the transition as easy as it can be for them and not confuse them. Give them all a year or so and she will no longer hide the fact that she’s dating from them. And they will be happy for her, they know she’s awesome and they will know an awesome man will be in her life again one day.


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## john117

honcho said:


> Last woman I dated broke up with me and went the cat route, she's now got 6 last I heard.....


Can you PM me her contact info


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> This is one of those mutual attraction characteristics I mentioned earlier. I'm like you where I like to take it slowly but most men I've met assume the opposite. I'm naturally outgoing and touchy feely. Apparently that's code for "she is down to ****" so I've learned to tone it down a lot. Last night's date kept telling me I was "reserved". That cracked me up. I guess "reserved" was a nice way of saying "not easy". I'll take that.


I think this issue is one of compatibility, not mutual attraction. I’m attracted to all kinds of people I’m not compatible with.

Men generally want to rush to sex because (I believe) most of them feel constantly denied of sex. So they approach a date as if they might get a chance to eat after starving for weeks. Then they start doing a tap dance to get you into bed. But it’s all about them, and that they are hungry. It’s not really about liking you or how hot you may be, even though they will tell you that. 

Since this is a common thing with men, I don’t automatically next someone for it. I just know this is how a hungry man is on a date. If he can keep his jets cool enough to just talk about it and not get physically pushy about it, I’ll stay engaged. 

Plenty of women are willing and happy to go straight to sex, so I know these guys who also want to jump straight to sex will find someone compatible with them and I wish them well (in my head) and move on. No hard feelings. Just wanting to have sex with me without knowing me at all isn’t really an insult. It just means to me that the guy wouldn’t have cared about my feelings in bed anyway, since he would want to have sex with someone he doesn’t even know.

Wouldn’t it be funny to take a guy home and say sure let’s do it! Oh but I do have some ways I expect to be pleasured first. Obviously you do care about my pleasure, right? Well my only pleasure comes from pegging you. It’s my fetish and I am not into any other kind of sex. But you wanted to sleep with me immediately before even knowing this, so I assumed you are up for anything. Bend over, boyfriend!

(Would never do this, he might be into it anyway). :laugh: 

I read a convo on another thread where at least one guy was boasting about how if a woman has some arbitrary timeline for waiting before sex, he will walk away because he doesn’t play games like that. The irony was lost on him that he is playing the “prove to me that I can nail you or else my self esteem will suffer” game.

Adults don’t pressure each other for sex. When someone does, next. It doesn’t matter what reasons they say they have for wanting to jump into bed. The real reason is always because they are insecure.


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## Ynot

Lila said:


> @Ynot you said "_Do not focus on what you want (mainly because at this point you really don't have a clue_".
> 
> I think some of us know exactly what we want. I think the better question is "How practical and achievable are your wants?".


And I would say, that at this point you are not one of the people who know exactly what you want. You may think you know what you want, but as your own objections, raised above (how practical and achievable) and elsewhere (what about my son) show, you have not completely bought into your ideas yourself.
Right now, your ideas are simply fantasies, that you have not totally figured out how to achieve. And the reality is that in the end as you achieve them, you may find that they are not really what you want, for all of the reasons you have already mentioned (not practical, not achievable, not to your son's benefit) or for others.
There is no shame in changing your goals. In fact it is healthy to change them as you meet them or find them not satisfying. That is why I said do not focus on what you want. By all means, have goals and wants and desires, but always retain and embrace the flexibility to decide otherwise.
Far too often, especially when in a relationship, we tend to filter or alter or bend our desires to be more acceptable to another. Often times that leads us to hone in on a particular outcome. Sometimes, when we aren't in a relationship, we still feel we MUST meet our goals or achieve something to the point that we never stop to think about why we even want that in the first place.
The last point is one of the great failings that many people make when they become single. One of the great benefits of being single, is that now you really only have to make ONE person happy. That person is you. So do what makes you happy, even if it ends up being totally different than what you set out to do. That is why I said do not focus on what you want. Because what you want now, may end up being completely different than where you land. But as long as you seek happiness and not some ideal, you will be fine.
Personally, I already think you are miles ahead of many other people, myself included when I started off. You are asking the right questions, just don't assume you know all the right answers. I know I didn't and don't now.


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> And I would say, that at this point you are not one of the people who know exactly what you want. You may think you know what you want, but as your own objections, raised above (how practical and achievable) and elsewhere (what about my son) show, you have not completely bought into your ideas yourself.
> 
> Right now, your ideas are simply fantasies, that you have not totally figured out how to achieve. And the reality is that in the end as you achieve them, you may find that they are not really what you want, for all of the reasons you have already mentioned (not practical, not achievable, not to your son's benefit) or for others.
> 
> There is no shame in changing your goals. In fact it is healthy to change them as you meet them or find them not satisfying. That is why I said do not focus on what you want. By all means, have goals and wants and desires, but always retain and embrace the flexibility to decide otherwise.
> 
> Far too often, especially when in a relationship, we tend to filter or alter or bend our desires to be more acceptable to another. Often times that leads us to hone in on a particular outcome. Sometimes, when we aren't in a relationship, we still feel we MUST meet our goals or achieve something to the point that we never stop to think about why we even want that in the first place.
> 
> The last point is one of the great failings that many people make when they become single. One of the great benefits of being single, is that now you really only have to make ONE person happy. That person is you. So do what makes you happy, even if it ends up being totally different than what you set out to do. That is why I said do not focus on what you want. Because what you want now, may end up being completely different than where you land. But as long as you seek happiness and not some ideal, you will be fine.
> 
> Personally, I already think you are miles ahead of many other people, myself included when I started off. You are asking the right questions, just don't assume you know all the right answers. I know I didn't and don't now.


I wholeheartedly agree with @Ynot on this post!!!!

When I got out of my marriage and felt I was ready to date again, all I wanted was to find was someone who would love and appreciate me... that was the only thing that I wanted. (And sex, and someone who was kinky so I could explore that.)

Guess what? I did find that, with Real Estate... but it turns out, even though that was what I thought I wanted, I was still putting my life on the back burner by being with him. He made me very happy, but because of the relationship, and because I was so focused on HIM, I wasn't focused on me and making choices based on what I wanted.

He could see that, even if I couldn't, and I've come to realize that this was a big part of why he decided to end the relationship. He knew I would be happy with him, but I wouldn't really be living the life that I wanted. 

Since our breakup, I have, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE EVER, been able to think about what I really want out of my life without considering the wants/needs of another person(s), and what I want to do. That has been an amazing opportunity, and the greatest gift that Real Estate could have given me.

Because I never would have considered these options otherwise, and the choices I am making for myself and the direction I want to go in my life... sadly, there is no space for Real Estate in them. There is space for someone, perhaps, but not him.

As I move forward, I'm sure I will meet someone who will be more compatible with my life goals. But if I don't, I know I will be happy with my choices and living the life of my own making, because it will be more than I could have ever had if Real Estate and I stayed together.
@Lila, If you build a life that is true to your values and your personal goals, if you become an active agent for your own happiness and satisfaction, you will be happy no matter what happens in regards to relationships. And living THAT life will attract the type of partner you want and deserve.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Lila

Went on the 4 more first dates this week and 2 second dates, one with dilemma guy and the other with blunt honesty guy. Dilemma guy is fantastic but just logistically too far from me to even consider more than friendship and blunt honesty guy ended up friend zoning me. If anyone keeping track, with the exception of dilemma guy, I have been friend zoned by every single attractive and compatible single person I've met. 

When I asked blunt honesty guy about this he said I am a smart, sane, successful, respectable, charismatic (his words) woman but men in my age bracket don't care about any of that. They want fit and young. He pretty much said my only chance of finding someone in my age bracket was to lose 40 lbs, and even that was no guarantee. He offered to help me with that if I was open to his help (again, friend zoned gives me accessibility to a lot of help). He was genuinely offering help and I might take him up on the offer (we both work out at the same gym but different locations). 

Anyway, I have dumped my online profile. It was a waste of time and probably not the best way to go about meeting men. Beginning hermit mode.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> Went on the 4 more first dates this week and 2 second dates, one with dilemma guy and the other with blunt honesty guy. Dilemma guy is fantastic but just logistically too far from me to even consider more than friendship and blunt honesty guy ended up friend zoning me. If anyone keeping track, with the exception of dilemma guy, I have been friend zoned by every single attractive and compatible single person I've met.
> 
> When I asked blunt honesty guy about this he said I am a smart, sane, successful, respectable, charismatic (his words) woman but men in my age bracket don't care about any of that. They want fit and young. He pretty much said my only chance of finding someone in my age bracket was to lose 40 lbs, and even that was no guarantee. He offered to help me with that if I was open to his help (again, friend zoned gives me accessibility to a lot of help). He was genuinely offering help and I might take him up on the offer (we both work out at the same gym but different locations).
> 
> Anyway, I have dumped my online profile. It was a waste of time and probably not the best way to go about meeting men. Beginning hermit mode.


I wouldn't go into hermit mode, I would take blunt honest guys advice and loose 40 pounds if you need to. He was doing you a favor. I am not saying to go to his gym, but self improvement involves not only your mind but your body as well. Your body is the house you live in. Taking care of that, shows a lot about the type of person you are. No healthy person wants a whacko fitness buff, who spends 6 hours a day in the gym. But if he thought you could stand to lose 40 pounds, take him up on that advice and do that. Few people want a couch potato and few men (or women) are interested in some one who doesn't take care of themselves.


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## Lila

Ynot said:


> I wouldn't go into hermit mode, I would take blunt honest guys advice and loose 40 pounds if you need to. He was doing you a favor. I am not saying to go to his gym, but self improvement involves not only your mind but your body as well. Your body is the house you live in. Taking care of that, shows a lot about the type of person you are. No healthy person wants a whacko fitness buff, who spends 6 hours a day in the gym. But if he thought you could stand to lose 40 pounds, take him up on that advice and do that. Few people want a couch potato and few men (or women) are interested in some one who doesn't take care of themselves.


Lol I'm far from a couch potato or someone who doesn't take care of herself. 

I go to the gym now and workout 3-4 days a week. As far as fitness goes, I'm "fitter" than most of the thin women I know. It's strictly an aesthetic thing.


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## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> Anyway, I have dumped my online profile. It was a waste of time and probably not the best way to go about meeting men. Beginning hermit mode.




#metoo

!


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## john117

Lila said:


> Lol I'm far from a couch potato or someone who doesn't take care of herself.
> 
> I go to the gym now and workout 3-4 days a week. As far as fitness goes, I'm "fitter" than most of the thin women I know. It's strictly an aesthetic thing.


My soon to be dearly departed is a perfect size 4, despite 60 years and 2 kids. She looks very good and dresses the part. Having said that, she ain't online dating material...

There's more to life than pounds.


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## Lila

Elizabeth001 said:


> #metoo
> 
> !
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What happened to make you go hermit mode?


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## RandomDude

Lila said:


> Went on the 4 more first dates this week and 2 second dates, one with dilemma guy and the other with blunt honesty guy. Dilemma guy is fantastic but just logistically too far from me to even consider more than friendship and blunt honesty guy ended up friend zoning me. If anyone keeping track, with the exception of dilemma guy, I have been friend zoned by every single attractive and compatible single person I've met.
> 
> When I asked blunt honesty guy about this he said I am a smart, sane, successful, respectable, charismatic (his words) woman but men in my age bracket don't care about any of that. They want fit and young. He pretty much said my only chance of finding someone in my age bracket was to lose 40 lbs, and even that was no guarantee. He offered to help me with that if I was open to his help (again, friend zoned gives me accessibility to a lot of help). He was genuinely offering help and I might take him up on the offer (we both work out at the same gym but different locations).
> 
> Anyway, I have dumped my online profile. It was a waste of time and probably not the best way to go about meeting men. Beginning hermit mode.


Online dating is a pure meat market, but it's reflective of offline dating too.

Physical attraction is important. I told my girlfriend recently that if she was to be fat I'll be keeping my eyes on her neck up. I'll still love her because of who she is, but the penis operates separate from emotions and has a mind of its own. I can do my part to appreciate her if she's not a specific body type but can only go so far. For example, her current body type isn't fat but it wasn't really my type at the start as I preferred skinny: 










However over time I've come to love her toned and rather muscular body with curves in all the right places, which is sexy in a different way; aka, she's full figured, and is very fit with a sporty body. What most men actually want in the end, while I liked skinny.










However as much as I've come to love her body type I doubt I can bring myself to appreciate too many curves. I wish I can cause I feel shallow about it and I want to love her more than that, but it's biology it seems.


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## Ynot

Lila said:


> Lol I'm far from a couch potato or someone who doesn't take care of herself.
> 
> I go to the gym now and workout 3-4 days a week. As far as fitness goes, I'm "fitter" than most of the thin women I know. It's strictly an aesthetic thing.


I am not arguing with you. But you said he that he said "They want fit and young. He pretty much said my only chance of finding someone in my age bracket was to lose 40 lbs, and even that was no guarantee." Implying that you needed to loose 40 lbs. Why would he say that, if he didn't think you needed to that? 
Look some, men want young and in reality there are a lot of younger women that want older men and vice versa. But I don't understand why he would agree to go out with you and then say that unless he really felt you could stand to loose some weight. I don't know, I am just asking.
You may go to the gym 3-4 days a week. I see lot's of women that do that. But you might not be doing the right things to tone up. I see that a lot as well. They come in to the gym, but never break a sweat. They get on the treadmill and put in the highest incline then hold on to the front grips and are really doing nothing more than moving their feet. The purpose of the incline is to place greater resistance but that all disappears when they hold on to the front grips. Or they get on a machine and do 1 set of 10 reps with the lowest weight for months. 
Not trying to shame you or disrespect you, but he must have said that for a reason.
One other thing is to maybe look at the clothes you are wearing. I am 58, many of the women my age and older have a frumpy look to them, like they are a librarian or lunch room lady instead of trying to look stylish.
Anyways, just some ideas. If you think being a hermit should be your next step, all I am saying is don't do it. Stay active and engaged.


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## Lila

john117 said:


> My soon to be dearly departed is a perfect size 4, despite 60 years and 2 kids. She looks very good and dresses the part. Having said that, she ain't online dating material...
> 
> There's more to life than pounds.


You and I know that but 90% of the people online dating do not. 

One of the dates turned friend after date #2 showed me his online profile. I wanted to see what women out put on there profile. Match lists people based on their popularity based on the parameters searched so I asked him to search for my general age range (nothing else, i.e height, body type, etc). The most popular profiles (the ones with the highest number of likes and messages) were hot women. No surprise there but what was surprising was their profiles. Of the top three, one admitted she was bad with money, financially strapped, and looking for someone who was her opposite. The other admitted she had 3 kids with three different men so her custody schedules were all over the place. And the third had a requirement list longer than my entire profile. Men were still chasing them apparently so do not discount the power of size and looks.


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## Lila

Ynot said:


> I am not arguing with you. But you said he that he said "They want fit and young. He pretty much said my only chance of finding someone in my age bracket was to lose 40 lbs, and even that was no guarantee." Implying that you needed to loose 40 lbs. Why would he say that, if he didn't think you needed to that?
> Look some, men want young and in reality there are a lot of younger women that want older men and vice versa. But I don't understand why he would agree to go out with you and then say that unless he really felt you could stand to loose some weight. I don't know, I am just asking.


He said that because in order for a woman my age to attract someone else in my age bracket, I will have to look better than someone younger. So if I lose 40 lbs, I would be in the 10% of the women in my age group. 




> Anyways, just some ideas. If you think being a hermit should be your next step, all I am saying is don't do it. Stay active and engaged.


I don't plan on giving up the gym. It makes me feel good when I go. I also have my core group of married girlfriends who keep sane and engaged. I just don't think I need to be dating.


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## Faithful Wife

@Lila I agree, when dating seems to keep slamming you into a dead end, it’s time to focus on other things for awhile.


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## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> What happened to make you go hermit mode?




Uuuggghhhh...I was only running into either losers or guys that were in love at the end of our first date. 

I am currently focusing on my work, home and dogs. If something organic comes along, great. If not, I have plenty of things to stay busy with. 


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## Lila

Elizabeth001 said:


> Uuuggghhhh...I was only running into either losers or guys that were in love at the end of our first date.


That sounds unpleasant. Were you meeting these people online or in real life? And if online, what app were you using? 



> I am currently focusing on my work, home and dogs. If something organic comes along, great. If not, I have plenty of things to stay busy with.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for you. Do you have home improvement projects planned?


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## Ynot

Lila said:


> He said that because in order for a woman my age to attract someone else in my age bracket, I will have to look better than someone younger. So if I lose 40 lbs, I would be in the 10% of the women in my age group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't plan on giving up the gym. It makes me feel good when I go. I also have my core group of married girlfriends who keep sane and engaged. I just don't think I need to be dating.


Lila, I am confused. Why would you not want to be in the top 10%? If you are seeking to attract better into your life, you have to be better yourself. In this case you have gotten some IRL advice and you seem to be taking the easy way (being a hermit) out instead of listening to it. 
They say the best revenge is a life well lived. Not saying you should live for revenge, but why on earth if given this second chance to live would the life you want, would you choose to remain where you are instead of seeking out the best?


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## sunsetmist

Ynot said:


> Lila, I am confused. Why would you not want to be in the top 10%? If you are seeking to attract better into your life, you have to be better yourself. In this case you have gotten some IRL advice and you seem to be taking the easy way (being a hermit) out instead of listening to it.
> They say the best revenge is a life well lived. Not saying you should live for revenge, but why on earth if given this second chance to live would the life you want, would you choose to remain where you are instead of seeking out the best?


I'm not Lila, but I stewed about your question. Honestly. I would answer that I am happy as who I am and what I stand for. Not seeking a life that elevates fitness above other values, characteristics, etc. I am living my single life wonderfully well. Of course, I'm older and not seeking a partner. I'm interested to see Lila's and your answer.


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## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> That sounds unpleasant. Were you meeting these people online or in real life? And if online, what app were you using?
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you. Do you have home improvement projects planned?




Online...POF for about a year and a half off and on. Some folks advise to use a “better” service but a lot of folks will say that it really doesn’t matter. I’m of the latter opinion. 

As far as home improvement projects, all kinds all of the time. I bought an older house that had been used as a rental for quite a few years so it really needed some love. I’ll be much more motivated when the days get longer and warmer. I’m really feeling the Winter effect this year...no idea why. 

I am an introverted person and I have worked hard to make my home a place I want to be. Maybe I am a hermit...maybe I just love the personal space I have created for me and only me after all of these years. Not everyone “needs” to be continually up and out and on the go 


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## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> You and I know that but 90% of the people online dating do not.
> 
> One of the dates turned friend after date #2 showed me his online profile. I wanted to see what women out put on there profile. Match lists people based on their popularity based on the parameters searched so I asked him to search for my general age range (nothing else, i.e height, body type, etc). The most popular profiles (the ones with the highest number of likes and messages) were hot women. No surprise there but what was surprising was their profiles. Of the top three, one admitted she was bad with money, financially strapped, and looking for someone who was her opposite. The other admitted she had 3 kids with three different men so her custody schedules were all over the place. And the third had a requirement list longer than my entire profile. Men were still chasing them apparently so do not discount the power of size and looks.


They are chasing them for a hookup.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

sunsetmist said:


> i'm not Lila,but I stewed about your question. Honestly. I would answer that I am happy as who I am and what I stand for. Not seeking a life that elevates fitness above other values, characteristics, etc. I am living my single life wonderfully well. Of course, I'm older and not seeking a partner. I'm interested to see Lila's and your answer.


That is a good answer. For you. But Lila had suggested otherwise which is why I asked.


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## Lila

Ynot said:


> Lila, I am confused. Why would you not want to be in the top 10%? If you are seeking to attract better into your life, you have to be better yourself. In this case you have gotten some IRL advice and you seem to be taking the easy way (being a hermit) out instead of listening to it.


I won't be attracting better. It will take an enormous effort to become top 10% only to be able to attract the middle of the pack within my age bracket, at best. That's a whole lot of effort for so so rewards. 



> They say the best revenge is a life well lived. Not saying you should live for revenge, but why on earth if given this second chance to live would the life you want, would you choose to remain where you are instead of seeking out the best?


Attempting to out best my ex husband is a waste of time. He's top 1-3% compared to the single men I've seen online. I'm not seeking guys like him, a.k.a the best. I'm not asking for more than I can offer but even the ones that are equal to me in looks and lifestyle are out of my league. 

My choices for dating are do I put in enormous effort to hopefully attract a compatible guy I find passably attractive or do I do nothing and settle for someone I'm not attracted to or incompatible to me. 

Yes, I am getting a chance at a second life but it wasn't one that I asked for nor wanted. I am trying to make the best of it but I'm learning that the best this time around will never ever come close to what I had before.


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## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> I'm learning that the best this time around will never ever come close to what I had before.



You don’t know that...it may be something even better 



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## john117

Elizabeth001 said:


> You don’t know that...it may be something even better
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not unless the list of requirements is drastically changed... 

It's like HGTV. Most of the time it's fun watching and you can get some good ideas. But once you reach a certain age... It's WTF time. 

There's a couple at work from the same country I came from. Husband has literally torn down the first floor, for what started as replacing a stove, $2k to $50k.

Getting into a relationship should not be like that.


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I am trying to make the best of it but I'm learning that the best this time around *will never ever come close to what I had before*.


Lila, do you mean specifically in the looks department?


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## Ynot

Lila said:


> I won't be attracting better. It will take an enormous effort to become top 10% only to be able to attract the middle of the pack within my age bracket, at best. That's a whole lot of effort for so so rewards.
> 
> 
> 
> Attempting to out best my ex husband is a waste of time. He's top 1-3% compared to the single men I've seen online. I'm not seeking guys like him, a.k.a the best. I'm not asking for more than I can offer but even the ones that are equal to me in looks and lifestyle are out of my league.
> 
> My choices for dating are do I put in enormous effort to hopefully attract a compatible guy I find passably attractive or do I do nothing and settle for someone I'm not attracted to or incompatible to me.
> 
> Yes, I am getting a chance at a second life but it wasn't one that I asked for nor wanted. I am trying to make the best of it but I'm learning that the best this time around will never ever come close to what I had before.


OK, I am not saying this in spite, anger, disgust or in any other negative way. But you really need to look within. What you had was NOT the best that you will ever have. If it were, you would still be there. But you aren't. BUT, you do have the choice to make your future the best that you can ever imagine.
So for the present I agree with FW, you really need do need to take some time from dating. You need to focus on your self. Apparently that starts with an attitude adjustment, which apparently is really necessary. Let go of the past and stop imagining it as something great. There may have been good times, but on the whole it wasn't. Let go and start thinking about what you want. This is exactly what I meant when I told you earlier that you probably do not have a clue what it is that you really want. 
But I have to tell you that you will never find out if you wallow in the past and allow it to define you and your goals.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Lila, do you mean specifically in the looks department?


Looks, success, core family values, political views, etc..


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Looks, success, core family values, political views, etc..


Seems like looks is the only thing here that may not be "even close" to before. All the other things you've mentioned are not really things that people lose as they get older.


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## Ynot

Lila said:


> Looks, success, core family values, political views, etc..


These are the pedestals you need to tear down in order to build your new life. You cannot cling to the past.


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## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> *Attempting to out best my ex husband is a waste of time. He's top 1-3% compared to the single men I've seen online.* I'm not seeking guys like him, a.k.a the best. I'm not asking for more than I can offer but even the ones that are equal to me in looks and lifestyle are out of my league.
> 
> My choices for dating are do I put in enormous effort to hopefully attract a compatible guy I find passably attractive or do I do nothing and settle for someone I'm not attracted to or incompatible to me.
> 
> Yes, I am getting a chance at a second life but it wasn't one that I asked for nor wanted. I am trying to make the best of it but I'm learning that *the best this time around will never ever come close to what I had before*.


The man CHEATED ON YOU. You think you cant do better than a dirty rotten cheater? THIS is your bar? You should want way better for yourself than that! Pretty scary that you think this is what the best is! SMDH.

Do yourself a huge favor and stop dating for a while, I think you jumped into that pool WAY too fast. A good honest reality check about what you USED to have is in order. You deserve better than the POS who cheated on you, and the fact that you think he is the "best" shows that you are not in the right frame of mind to be seeking a new partner.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> OK, I am not saying this in spite, anger, disgust or in any other negative way. But you really need to look within. What you had was NOT the best that you will ever have. If it were, you would still be there. But you aren't. BUT, you do have the choice to make your future the best that you can ever imagine.


It was the best *I* will ever have. It wasn't the best *he* thought he could achieve. My marriage was not perfect but I fought for it really hard because I knew exactly what it was going to be like being single at my age. I saw other women get divorced and go through exactly what I'm dealing with now. I did not want that for me but like I said, no choice in the matter. He wanted out. 




> So for the present I agree with FW, you really need do need to take some time from dating. You need to focus on your self. Apparently that starts with an attitude adjustment, which apparently is really necessary. Let go of the past and stop imagining it as something great. There may have been good times, but on the whole it wasn't. Let go and start thinking about what you want. This is exactly what I meant when I told you earlier that you probably do not have a clue what it is that you really want.
> But I have to tell you that you will never find out if you wallow in the past and allow it to define you and your goals.


I agree that I shouldn't be dating and I'm not but it's not because I don't know what I want. I totally get that my marriage was not perfect but there was a lot of good to it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it was 90% great with 10% bad. I want to find the 90% great in my next relationship plus I want to find some of the missing 10%. It's finding that which will be impossible. 

I keep reading from you and others to work on me. That I need an attitude adjustment. That I need to be happy with who I am. I can change everything about me but it'll never get me what I truly want. It's not realistic. That's the part that bothers me the most.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Seems like looks is the only thing here that may not be "even close" to before. All the other things you've mentioned are not really things that people lose as they get older.


You're right, they don't. But the men who are successful, share my family values, political views, etc.. are hot commodities. Again, they have the pick of the litter. I'm not it.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> These are the pedestals you need to tear down in order to build your new life. You cannot cling to the past.


It's not about clinging to the past or pedestalizing my ex husband. I know his strengths and I absolutely know his faults. It's about knowing what I like, and the qualities I listed are the ones I like in man...just like the men in my age bracket who like fit and young. 

We are all entitled to like what we like even if the likelihood of finding someone who meets those qualities is likely slim to none.


----------



## Lila

3Xnocharm said:


> The man CHEATED ON YOU. You think you cant do better than a dirty rotten cheater? THIS is your bar? You should want way better for yourself than that! Pretty scary that you think this is what the best is! SMDH.
> 
> Do yourself a huge favor and stop dating for a while, I think you jumped into that pool WAY too fast. A good honest reality check about what you USED to have is in order. You deserve better than the POS who cheated on you, and the fact that you think he is the "best" shows that you are not in the right frame of mind to be seeking a new partner.


Not to defend him but looking back at my marriage, the cheating was an exit affair. Should he have done it? Absolutely not but looking back, I can now recognize he was checked out a long time before he got involved with someone else. He hedged his bet and set his soft landing before making the jump. 

Is he a spineless chicken ****? Yep. 

Is he an evil person? Nope. 

Does he have some amazing qualities? Yes. 

Are there some that he was lacking? Absolutely yes! 

Do I want someone just like him? Hell NO!!! I want someone with his good qualities and without his bad ones.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> It was the best *I* will ever have. It wasn't the best *he* thought he could achieve. My marriage was not perfect but I fought for it really hard because I knew exactly what it was going to be like being single at my age. I saw other women get divorced and go through exactly what I'm dealing with now. I did not want that for me but like I said, no choice in the matter. He wanted out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that I shouldn't be dating and I'm not but it's not because I don't know what I want. I totally get that my marriage was not perfect but there was a lot of good to it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it was 90% great with 10% bad. I want to find the 90% great in my next relationship plus I want to find some of the missing 10%. It's finding that which will be impossible.
> 
> I keep reading from you and others to work on me. That I need an attitude adjustment. That I need to be happy with who I am. I can change everything about me but it'll never get me what I truly want. It's not realistic. That's the part that bothers me the most.


Lila, when my marriage ended, I thought it was the end of the world. No one would want a divorced middle aged man. Guess what? I was wrong. I was so wrong I can't even believe that I even allowed my divorce and my ex to upset me.
What you are feeling is the raw nerve endings that came from your marriage ending so abruptly. You just wait, in a year you will have a different attitude, in two years an even different attitude and a few years later you will wonder what you even concerned about in the first place.
In many ways you should be glad you did NOT find what you are looking for (now). Because then you might have been trapped into a life that you will soon realize you never needed and don't want anymore.
My first relationship started about 6 months after my divorce. I was so desperate to rebuild what I had had, that I overlooked so many red flags. It didn't end well and then I spent another 6 months learning those lessons. I moved on from there. But I continue to learn lessons every single day.


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## Faithful Wife

@Lila I’m going to resist telling you to cheer up, things will change, etc.

I’m just listening. You are telling us what you are seeing and feeling. You are trying to make peace with it, and you are moving forward. You aren’t saying you’re going to give up and die, you’re just saying it like it is.

Whether things may look different or not later, this is how you feel now.

It’s really hard for us to hear it because we want to make you feel better. But you are trying to feel better by using acceptance. I get that. To you, this is what it is.

So instead of chin up, I’ll say bottoms up, here’s a toast to acceptance...and to moving forward. I have had to accept a lot of things I didn’t want, too. It sucked. And some things I’ll never get back. But bottoms up with whatever you’re drinking, because there’s no going back. Cheers! :toast:


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> @Lila I’m going to resist telling you to cheer up, things will change, etc.
> 
> I’m just listening. You are telling us what you are seeing and feeling. You are trying to make peace with it, and you are moving forward. You aren’t saying you’re going to give up and die, you’re just saying it like it is.


No definitely not going to give up and die. I have a child to get to adulthood. 



> Whether things may look different or not later, this is how you feel now.
> 
> It’s really hard for us to hear it because we want to make you feel better. But you are trying to feel better by using acceptance. I get that. To you, this is what it is.
> 
> So instead of chin up, I’ll say bottoms up, here’s a toast to acceptance...and to moving forward. I have had to accept a lot of things I didn’t want, too. It sucked. And some things I’ll never get back. But bottoms up with whatever you’re drinking, because there’s no going back. Cheers! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/toast.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Toast" ></a>


Thanks for trying to make me feel better @Faithful Wife. Yes on all accounts above. There's no going back no matter what. Bottoms up! 🍻


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## 3Xnocharm

Here, you guys can rough me up for a little bit lol...

I am pretty sure I need to end my current relationship. I am getting nothing from it, really. I haven't had sex in four years. I get no compliments, no flirting, no sweet nothings. I never get told "I love you" unless I say it first, and that's only been recent that I have even been getting it back. We don't spend very much time together any more despite living only about 12 miles apart. 

Anyway. 

What keeps me in this: He has been my best friend for the last four years... he is kind, gentle, respectful, good hearted, laid back... But, its the overwhelming thought that if we split, that within a matter of weeks he is going to be with someone else, and he is going to be the super boyfriend for her I have been begging him to be for me this whole time that REALLY keeps me in this! Stupid, right??? In his past, he was the one who always got cheated on, crapped on, used, hurt... was always the good boyfriend. But with me he is pretty checked out. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that he doesn't actually WANT me. Not the way you need your partner to want you, as in, desire, seeing/working toward a future together, spending as much time as possible together.... What I need help with is HOW to get past this worry about other women after me. I just don't know how to let go of that part. Of course I struggle with losing closeness with someone who has been the biggest part of my life for four years, our lives are so intertwined. And the fact that he hasn't turned into the ******* that all my past partners did after this much time... how do you let go of someone who is nice and kind?? I have never been in this position before. 

All this time I had honestly felt like we were supposed to be together... again, stupid, right?? Am I asking too much? Should I be content with what I have since it really "isn't" that bad??


----------



## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> Here, you guys can rough me up for a little bit lol...
> 
> I am pretty sure I need to end my current relationship. I am getting nothing from it, really. I haven't had sex in four years. I get no compliments, no flirting, no sweet nothings. I never get told "I love you" unless I say it first, and that's only been recent that I have even been getting it back. We don't spend very much time together any more despite living only about 12 miles apart.
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> What keeps me in this: He has been my best friend for the last four years... he is kind, gentle, respectful, good hearted, laid back... But, its the overwhelming thought that if we split, that within a matter of weeks he is going to be with someone else, and he is going to be the super boyfriend for her I have been begging him to be for me this whole time that REALLY keeps me in this! Stupid, right??? In his past, he was the one who always got cheated on, crapped on, used, hurt... was always the good boyfriend. But with me he is pretty checked out. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that he doesn't actually WANT me. Not the way you need your partner to want you, as in, desire, seeing/working toward a future together, spending as much time as possible together.... What I need help with is HOW to get past this worry about other women after me. I just don't know how to let go of that part. Of course I struggle with losing closeness with someone who has been the biggest part of my life for four years, our lives are so intertwined. And the fact that he hasn't turned into the ******* that all my past partners did after this much time... how do you let go of someone who is nice and kind?? I have never been in this position before.
> 
> All this time I had honestly felt like we were supposed to be together... again, stupid, right?? Am I asking too much? Should I be content with what I have since it really "isn't" that bad??


Ok, to paraphrase your own signature line - Life is too short to waste time on people who do not make you happy.
You do not owe anybody your happiness and they do not owe you yours. If this guy is not cutting it for you, there is no reason to settle for it. In fact you might be doing something he should have done himself. You might actually be doing him a favor. He might be stringing you along for the same reason.
When it comes to thinking about the women that come after you, if you care about this guy you should want him to be happy. If he makes some other woman happy and she makes him happy, be glad for him, because it wasn't working for you.


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## 3Xnocharm

Ynot said:


> When it comes to thinking about the women that come after you, if you care about this guy you should want him to be happy. If he makes some other woman happy and she makes him happy, be glad for him, because it wasn't working for you.


Ugh, I know... I wish I could say that I was this selfless and good...


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## Elizabeth001

3Xnocharm said:


> Ugh, I know... I wish I could say that I was this selfless and good...




No shat...I hope mine gets what’s coming to him. And her if she hasn’t figured it out by now...she needs a spankin’. 

Guess I’m still processing 


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## john117

Lila said:


> You're right, they don't. But the men who are successful, share my family values, political views, etc.. are hot commodities. Again, they have the pick of the litter. I'm not it.


My short list is "substantially educated, no skeletons, no young children, successful career, 50+, super liberal, 5+ look, doesn't take life seriously, likes adventure".

More skeletons than the Pirates of the Caribbean movies... and generally speaking, academia is full of single 50+ year olds who fit the list save for the skeletons.


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## Elizabeth001

john117 said:


> My short list is "substantially educated, no skeletons, no young children, successful career, 50+, super liberal, 5+ look, doesn't take life seriously, likes adventure".
> 
> More skeletons than the Pirates of the Caribbean movies... and generally speaking, academia is full of single 50+ year olds who fit the list save for the skeletons.




Well damn...can you forego the “substantially educated”? If so, beam me up Scotty! I do read a lot 

ETA: We could [not] get married at Costco! 


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## john117

My last Costco interaction with the opposite gender didn't end well... This late 40s diminutive and very pretty Asian woman asked me () for help loading "something" in her cart. 

Turns out it was (a) 4x something and (b) it was those damned foam mattress things in a box. Holy cow they were like 60 lb each and unwieldy... 

I obliged but hurt my back quite good... Didn't get her number, tho someone buying 4 mattresses at a time... Hmm.


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## Elizabeth001

john117 said:


> My last Costco interaction with the opposite gender didn't end well... This late 40s diminutive and very pretty Asian woman asked me () for help loading "something" in her cart.
> 
> Turns out it was (a) 4x something and (b) it was those damned foam mattress things in a box. Holy cow they were like 60 lb each and unwieldy...
> 
> I obliged but hurt my back quite good... Didn't get her number, tho someone buying 4 mattresses at a time... Hmm.




I got the visual!



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## Hopeful Cynic

3Xnocharm said:


> Here, you guys can rough me up for a little bit lol...
> 
> I am pretty sure I need to end my current relationship. I am getting nothing from it, really.* I haven't had sex in four years. I get no compliments, no flirting, no sweet nothings. I never get told "I love you" unless I say it first, and that's only been recent that I have even been getting it back.* We don't spend very much time together any more despite living only about 12 miles apart.
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> What keeps me in this: *He has been my best friend for the last four years... he is kind, gentle, respectful, good hearted, laid back..*. But, its the overwhelming thought that if we split, that within a matter of weeks he is going to be with someone else, and he is going to be the super boyfriend for her I have been begging him to be for me this whole time that REALLY keeps me in this! Stupid, right??? In his past, he was the one who always got cheated on, crapped on, used, hurt... was always the good boyfriend. But with me he is pretty checked out. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that he doesn't actually WANT me. Not the way you need your partner to want you, as in, desire, seeing/working toward a future together, spending as much time as possible together.... What I need help with is HOW to get past this worry about other women after me. I just don't know how to let go of that part. Of course I struggle with losing closeness with someone who has been the biggest part of my life for four years, our lives are so intertwined. And the fact that he hasn't turned into the ******* that all my past partners did after this much time... how do you let go of someone who is nice and kind?? I have never been in this position before.
> 
> All this time I had honestly felt like we were supposed to be together... again, stupid, right?? Am I asking too much? Should I be content with what I have since it really "isn't" that bad??


It already sounds like you are in a friendship, not a relationship. And if you hardly see the person, and have to beg for scraps of attention, it's not much of a friendship. Does he actually even think you guys have a relationship? Are you really a girlfriend or just a friend who is a girl? You've given him four years to treat you like a romantic partner, and it hasn't happened. Another X amount of time isn't going to make it happen either. This concept is called 'sunk costs' where you keep throwing money into a bad investment in the assumption that it will pay off some day if you just keep at it. You just end up broker.

What may or may not happen after you make the downgrade from relationship to friendship official (does it have to be a full break up?) isn't relevant. You guys obviously aren't right for each other, even if you are both good people. Don't let the fear that he'll find someone right for him hold you back from finding someone who is right for YOU.


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## Curse of Millhaven

Lila said:


> When I asked blunt honesty guy about this he said I am a smart, sane, successful, respectable, charismatic (his words) woman but men in my age bracket don't care about any of that. They want fit and young. He pretty much said my only chance of finding someone in my age bracket was to lose 40 lbs, and even that was no guarantee. He offered to help me with that if I was open to his help (again, friend zoned gives me accessibility to a lot of help). He was genuinely offering help and I might take him up on the offer (we both work out at the same gym but different locations).


I know I don’t belong here, but I like to follow along with everyone's adventures in singlesville. I’m a curious creeper I guess. 

Anyway, I hope this isn’t offensive to anyone, but I had a thought and wanted to share it. 

Are you sure Mr. “Honest” wasn’t trying to take you down a peg or two (or twenty) in order to make you amenable to selfish intentions he had for you? In other words, maybe he wanted to tell you how "out of your league" guys like him are in the hopes that he could setup a FWB situation to his advantage? 

He saw your profile pics, met you in person, and you were attractive enough for him to want to date more than once. It just doesn’t add up and seems kind of calculated to me. Especially with him now offering to “help” you, thereby keeping an "in" with you. People play games.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m just too distrustful and question ulterior motives too much. 

And the reason I am wondering about all of this is because I’ve seen the pics you’ve posted (the Halloween one and the fun filter one)…you’re gorgeous. 

And you do not have 40 lbs to lose, in my opinion. That's a significant amount of weight. In your pics you looked fit and healthy; if you lost 40 lbs you would probably be very thin and frail looking, which may be attractive to some, but not to most, I would imagine. 

I say all of this with zero agenda and not just to be “nice”. It is an objective observation from a stranger.

Add to that your obvious intelligence, strength, integrity, kindness, dignity, and sense of humor…you are already in the upper echelon of available single ladies. 

Anyway, sorry to intrude. I just wanted to offer an alternative view to this. 

No matter what…I wish you happiness, healing, and peace of mind. <3


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## 3Xnocharm

Hopeful Cynic said:


> It already sounds like you are in a friendship, not a relationship. And if you hardly see the person, and have to beg for scraps of attention, it's not much of a friendship. Does he actually even think you guys have a relationship? Are you really a girlfriend or just a friend who is a girl? You've given him four years to treat you like a romantic partner, and it hasn't happened. Another X amount of time isn't going to make it happen either. This concept is called 'sunk costs' where you keep throwing money into a bad investment in the assumption that it will pay off some day if you just keep at it. You just end up broker.


Thank you. Yes, I really AM the girlfriend lol, we became "official" a year ago December. I was hoping more would change between us, but it has stayed way more on the friendship side than I ever hoped. While I do feel partners should be best friends, this was NOT what I had in mind! 



Hopeful Cynic said:


> What may or may not happen after you make the downgrade from relationship to friendship official *(does it have to be a full break up?)* isn't relevant. You guys obviously aren't right for each other, even if you are both good people. Don't let the fear that he'll find someone right for him hold you back from finding someone who is right for YOU.


I think it would have to be a full breakup, because the thought of seeing him or knowing about him with someone else, or watching other women flirt with him, breaks my heart, so I dont think I could deal. I did give thought that maybe we could remain friends until one of us moves on to someone else, but man... I just cant see myself dealing well. I would not shut the door to the possibility of trying again in the future, but that would take him having some kind of epiphany or breakthrough about his feelings for me. I have never ended a relationship with someone I still love, so this is all new to me, and I am really not sure what to do with it all. 

I have had a lot of thoughts about what it would be like to be with someone who makes it clear that they really want to be with me, I can barely remember what that feels like. I have had nothing but crap luck with men since my divorce in 2012, I never in my life had these kinds of issues. I am hoping maybe its forcing me to choose better in the future.


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## Lila

Curse of Millhaven said:


> I know I don’t belong here, but I like to follow along with everyone's adventures in singlesville. I’m a curious creeper I guess.


 @Curse of Millhaven, you're awesome and insightful that's why I think you're welcome everywhere on TAM. I appreciate your feedback and thank you for bringing up good points. 



> Anyway, I hope this isn’t offensive to anyone, but I had a thought and wanted to share it.
> 
> Are you sure Mr. “Honest” wasn’t trying to take you down a peg or two (or twenty) in order to make you amenable to selfish intentions he had for you? In other words, maybe he wanted to tell you how "out of your league" guys like him are in the hopes that he could setup a FWB situation to his advantage?
> 
> He saw your profile pics, met you in person, and you were attractive enough for him to want to date more than once. It just doesn’t add up and seems kind of calculated to me. Especially with him now offering to “help” you, thereby keeping an "in" with you. People play games.
> 
> I don’t know. Maybe I’m just too distrustful and question ulterior motives too much.


You could be completely right about Mr. Blunt Honesty's intentions but I didn't get that vibe from him. We had a lovely first date and a nice, if platonic, second date. He was very up front about his intentions and so was I which pretty much sealed the deal for getting friend zoned. Soon after that I shared with him my issues with finding someone I liked to meet those intensions and he very bluntly let me know the reality of dating over 40. I don't think he was doing it to bring me down a peg but to give me a reality check. 

And trust me, if you think he was blunt about my situation he was twice as blunt about the average man over 40 too. In the same breath he was telling me I had to lose 40 lbs to get noticed by the average 40 something man, he was telling me the average 40 something man is chasing pipe dreams and (for the most part) failing miserably at dating. 

I don't think he intended to pick me apart but to make me understand the reality of dating over 40 in today's world. 

As to the 40 lbs.....no I don't need to lose that, I'd look emaciated (I think that was his point - men over 40 wanting the VS model) but I could lose 20 lbs and look freaking amazing. So that's what I'm doing. 

We've decided to stay friends. I actually met him at the gym yesterday and impressed him with my workout. He tells me it's all in the diet so I'm working on that now.


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## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> @Curse of Millhaven, you're awesome and insightful that's why I think you're welcome everywhere on TAM. I appreciate your feedback and thank you for bringing up good points.
> 
> 
> 
> You could be completely right about Mr. Blunt Honesty's intentions but I didn't get that vibe from him. We had a lovely first date and a nice, if platonic, second date. He was very up front about his intentions and so was I which pretty much sealed the deal for getting friend zoned. Soon after that I shared with him my issues with finding someone I liked to meet those intensions and he very bluntly let me know the reality of dating over 40. I don't think he was doing it to bring me down a peg but to give me a reality check.
> 
> And trust me, if you think he was blunt about my situation he was twice as blunt about the average man over 40 too. In the same breath he was telling me I had to lose 40 lbs to get noticed by the average 40 something man, he was telling me the average 40 something man is chasing pipe dreams and (for the most part) failing miserably at dating.
> 
> I don't think he intended to pick me apart but to make me understand the reality of dating over 40 in today's world.
> 
> As to the 40 lbs.....no I don't need to lose that, I'd look emaciated (I think that was his point - men over 40 wanting the VS model) but I could lose 20 lbs and look freaking amazing. So that's what I'm doing.
> 
> We've decided to stay friends. I actually met him at the gym yesterday and impressed him with my workout. He tells me it's all in the diet so I'm working on that now.


He is right.

Fitness is made in the gym.

Bodies are made in the kitchen.

When I don't eat right (like I have over the last 2 months), my weight increases, which hides tone. 

One can eat right and look good without the gym, but it makes the process much slower. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> Ugh, I know... I wish I could say that I was this selfless and good...


Ok having reread your initial post, I have to wonder if the reason this guy was cheated on etc, is precisely because he actually treated all of them just like he is treating you - no sex for 4 years?
I don't think anybody deserves to get cheated on, but if this is his MO then he probably just got what was coming to him due to his actions. Very few women would put up with that for that long, regardless of how nice he was. The reality is he hasn't been a good BF, he has just been a nice guy. He has made himself into the door mat that he is. 
If I were you I wouldn't be too concerned about any of the women that come after you. At least not in the way you originally spoke about.. Rather than him becoming the super BF you imagined he could become, it is more likely that he would continue to act in the same way as he did with you and probably all the others that came before you. So if I were you I would feel sorry for any woman that comes after you. In the meantime you owe it to yourself to get out there and find what you are looking for and not settle for this.


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## Blondilocks

@3Xnocharm, are you saying that you have never had sex with this guy?

It took 3 years to become "official" boyfriend/girlfriend. The only thing "official" is you have a guy who you call your best friend (even though he isn't because a best friend would be honest with you). He is NOT your boyfriend. He never was and never will be. Throw him back and start fishing again. Don't even worry about whatever woman he next withholds sex and affection from. Not your monkey.

Don't waste any more of your life hoping he'll jump your bones - he won't.


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## 3Xnocharm

Blondilocks said:


> @3Xnocharm, are you saying that you have never had sex with this guy?
> 
> It took 3 years to become "official" boyfriend/girlfriend. The only thing "official" is you have a guy who you call your best friend (even though he isn't because a best friend would be honest with you). He is NOT your boyfriend. He never was and never will be. Throw him back and start fishing again. Don't even worry about whatever woman he next withholds sex and affection from. Not your monkey.
> 
> Don't waste any more of your life hoping he'll jump your bones - he won't.


Not successfully, no. He has performance issues, and I could work with that but its made him just throw out the whole thing, at least with me. All those other women before me used to get it, and there would at least be "other" intimacy when things failed. This is why I'm pretty much convinced that he has ZERO desire for me, in particular.  I feel like I could maybe deal with the actual sex thing if the rest of the relationship was fulfilling, but in all honesty, it just isn't.


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## Lila

farsidejunky said:


> He is right.
> 
> Fitness is made in the gym.
> 
> Bodies are made in the kitchen.
> 
> When I don't eat right (like I have over the last 2 months), my weight increases, which hides tone.
> 
> One can eat right and look good without the gym, but it makes the process much slower.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk



The diet has been a problem for a few years. I don't eat horrible but I have to eat perfectly to achieve minimal results at best. No cheat days allowed ever. I'm not sure if it's a product of my genetics or the meds I take for my Interstitial Cystitis. It's much easier for me to just go to the gym and workout.


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> The diet has been a problem for a few years. I don't eat horrible but I have to eat perfectly to achieve minimal results at best. No cheat days allowed ever. I'm not sure if it's a product of my genetics or the meds I take for my Interstitial Cystitis. It's much easier for me to just go to the gym and workout.


Lila, I've maintained a good low body fat size and weight all of my adult life, strictly through diet. I know people tend to assume there is always genetics on the side of someone like me, but actually it has been just forcing myself to eat a certain way throughout my life. I have done intermittent fasting all of my life. Long before people called it that (and back then, people used to insist to me all the time that you cannot skip meals or else your body will just eat your muscles and keep storing the fat, I always knew that was nonsense and thankfully now it is shown to be nonsense).

If you want to talk more about it, we can. Also there was a thread about IF in the ladies lounge a while ago.

I do not ever work out. And if I slip off my IF for even a week, I will immediately gain a bunch of all fat weight. That is my real genetic code, it wants to be very plump and chubby. In order to over ride that code, I use IF consistently and nothing else works.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Lila, I've maintained a good low body fat size and weight all of my adult life, strictly through diet. I know people tend to assume there is always genetics on the side of someone like me, but actually it has been just forcing myself to eat a certain way throughout my life. I have done intermittent fasting all of my life. Long before people called it that (and back then, people used to insist to me all the time that you cannot skip meals or else your body will just eat your muscles and keep storing the fat, I always knew that was nonsense and thankfully now it is shown to be nonsense).
> 
> If you want to talk more about it, we can. Also there was a thread about IF in the ladies lounge a while ago.
> 
> I do not ever work out. And if I slip off my IF for even a week, I will immediately gain a bunch of all fat weight. That is my real genetic code, it wants to be very plump and chubby. In order to over ride that code, I use IF consistently and nothing else works.


I tried intermittent fasting (eat all the calories within 8 hours) about a year ago after I started in my IC meds. It worked really well when I stuck to 1,000 calories per day (<30 g sugar) and was working out regularly. When I went over those calories or my sugars were higher than 30g nothing changed so I figured it was the calories and not necessarily the IF. I might try that again and see if I can stick to it this time around. 

How do you do your IF?


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I tried intermittent fasting (eat all the calories within 8 hours) about a year ago after I started in my IC meds. It worked really well when I stuck to 1,000 calories per day (<30 g sugar) and was working out regularly. When I went over those calories or my sugars were higher than 30g nothing changed so I figured it was the calories and not necessarily the IF. I might try that again and see if I can stick to it this time around.
> 
> How do you do your IF?


It will sound harsh, but my body is just used to it, so don't apply how it would feel to your body, because you are (most likely) used to eating a lot more throughout the day.

I skip breakfast and lunch all together. I have coffee, tea or sometimes other caffeine. I may break down and have a snack at 3 pm or so but I will have to cut that out of my dinner later if I do that.

I eat all my calories at dinner (and for me that is typically around 7 pm). I may have seconds at dinner, if I feel I've been doing well that week. I sometimes eat 2,000 all at once. Usually it is more like 1700 and to be at my least fat weight it would have to be 1500 but I am never doing that anymore (no reason to be my skinniest weight, it doesn't look any better on me that 5 more pounds of fat on me does).

The point is that by the next evening, I am good and HUNGRY and it is that hunger, when you feel active hunger, that is when your body is metabolizing fat to use for fuel. The longer you can maintain that hunger (not starvation, no one is going to starve after 15 hours of not eating), the longer you are burning fat. For me it is sufficient to just feel it for a few hours before I eat dinner, which I feel every day. 

When you are used to this, when you do eat, it is so much more satisfying. I still eat pretty well, but I don't have a lot of restrictions. Mainly I try not to eat too much processed crap, but I do eat that sometimes, too. I love protein, so this is helpful on IF. I could eat steak, eggs, other meat, nuts and beans for every meal. It isn't as easy to stay leaner if you don't like proteins. I do also love veggies so that helps, too. I love bread and pasta, but I generally avoid them (not strictly).

So every day, I feel that hunger kick in, and I know that's my body using a bit of body fat to supplement what is in my digestive system, and it literally feels good to me now. Within a few hours, I'm eating what feels like the best meal of my life (every meal feels that way when you are so hungry). Then all happy and full, it takes another 12 - 15 hours before I feel that hunger again.

Day after day.

If I get in the habit of eating breakfast and or lunch, such as on vacations with people who do not IF and they want you to eat all day like they do....I quickly, and I mean almost over night, gain 5 - 10 pounds of fat.


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## Ynot

Lila said:


> I tried intermittent fasting (eat all the calories within 8 hours) about a year ago after I started in my IC meds. It worked really well when I stuck to 1,000 calories per day (<30 g sugar) and was working out regularly. When I went over those calories or my sugars were higher than 30g nothing changed so I figured it was the calories and not necessarily the IF. I might try that again and see if I can stick to it this time around.
> 
> How do you do your IF?


IF is not just the way you did it, but to vary how and what you eat to fool your body. So if you happen to go over on carbs for a day or a week, you just go off for a similar period. The idea is not to diet, but to change your eating habits. That way eventually you just eat less. The problem most people have is that they "diet" which is really just a fad thing. The key is to create new habits in the way you eat. So you cut out snacks, over a period of time until eventually you just don't have snacks. Then you eat more vegetables for a period of time until eventually you just eat more vegetables, You reduce your carbs over a period of time until eventually you just eat less carbs. I only work out so that I can cheat from time to time. Usually when I do, I realize that the reward wasn't worth it.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> It will sound harsh, but my body is just used to it, so don't apply how it would feel to your body, because you are (most likely) used to eating a lot more throughout the day.
> 
> I skip breakfast and lunch all together. I have coffee, tea or sometimes other caffeine. I may break down and have a snack at 3 pm or so but I will have to cut that out of my dinner later if I do that.
> 
> I eat all my calories at dinner (and for me that is typically around 7 pm). I may have seconds at dinner, if I feel I've been doing well that week. I sometimes eat 2,000 all at once. Usually it is more like 1700 and to be at my least fat weight it would have to be 1500 but I am never doing that anymore (no reason to be my skinniest weight, it doesn't look any better on me that 5 more pounds of fat on me does).
> 
> The point is that by the next evening, I am good and HUNGRY and it is that hunger, when you feel active hunger, that is when your body is metabolizing fat to use for fuel. The longer you can maintain that hunger (not starvation, no one is going to starve after 15 hours of not eating), the longer you are burning fat. For me it is sufficient to just feel it for a few hours before I eat dinner, which I feel every day.
> 
> When you are used to this, when you do eat, it is so much more satisfying. I still eat pretty well, but I don't have a lot of restrictions. Mainly I try not to eat too much processed crap, but I do eat that sometimes, too. I love protein, so this is helpful on IF. I could eat steak, eggs, other meat, nuts and beans for every meal. It isn't as easy to stay leaner if you don't like proteins. I do also love veggies so that helps, too. I love bread and pasta, but I generally avoid them (not strictly).
> 
> So every day, I feel that hunger kick in, and I know that's my body using a bit of body fat to supplement what is in my digestive system, and it literally feels good to me now. Within a few hours, I'm eating what feels like the best meal of my life (every meal feels that way when you are so hungry). Then all happy and full, it takes another 12 - 15 hours before I feel that hunger again.
> 
> Day after day.
> 
> If I get in the habit of eating breakfast and or lunch, such as on vacations with people who do not IF and they want you to eat all day like they do....I quickly, and I mean almost over night, gain 5 - 10 pounds of fat.


Do you not suffer from brain fog when you go without eating all day like that?

I tried to get all my calories in during a 3 hour period and was constantly in a fog. I couldn't think straight and was tired while I was experimenting with the 3 hour thing.


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## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> Do you not suffer from brain fog when you go without eating all day like that?
> 
> I tried to get all my calories in during a 3 hour period and was constantly in a fog. I couldn't think straight and was tired while I was experimenting with the 3 hour thing.


Pretty sure I would be homicidal... :wink2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Do you not suffer from brain fog when you go without eating all day like that?
> 
> I tried to get all my calories in during a 3 hour period and was constantly in a fog. I couldn't think straight and was tired while I was experimenting with the 3 hour thing.


I think this is something that happens when you just aren't used to it.

No, I don't get the brain fog.

I drink lots of water, some caffeine, I sometimes chew gum, or snack on something inconsequential like hard candies. 

So I think this is just a matter of me having done it like this for so long.

For example, I do not normally feel hunger in the morning at all. I'm not used to registering my hunger until around 3 pm.

But if I am on vacay with friends and we are all eating breakfast every day, then by the 3rd morning, I am very hungry in the morning.

I'm guessing I could switch my eating time so that I only ate breakfast and then nothing until the next morning except maybe a night time snack. I have never done it this way because I prefer the foods normally available for dinner over breakfast foods if it is going to be my only meal.

Another thing that is related: I have a lot of muscle that I have had all my life. I do not have to keep working it, it just does it's thing now. It is providing me with a lot of good balance with IF. There's more to the science there which I can't relate properly, but basically because I have so much muscle, all of the food I eat is better processed and metabolized.

So if others are going to IF but they are starting from a place without much muscle and tone, it is going to be much harder.

I know that isn't you, though. Was just pointing it out.

My guess is that you would have to just tough it out for the first week or so through the brain fog....and after that your body will adjust.

I personally now get a type of brain fog when I eat 3 meals a day. It feels like I'm a little bit on the edge of throwing up all the time and this affects my thinking and choices.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> IF is not just the way you did it, but to vary how and what you eat to fool your body. So if you happen to go over on carbs for a day or a week, you just go off for a similar period. The idea is not to diet, but to change your eating habits. That way eventually you just eat less. The problem most people have is that they "diet" which is really just a fad thing. The key is to create new habits in the way you eat. So you cut out snacks, over a period of time until eventually you just don't have snacks. Then you eat more vegetables for a period of time until eventually you just eat more vegetables, You reduce your carbs over a period of time until eventually you just eat less carbs. I only work out so that I can cheat from time to time. Usually when I do, I realize that the reward wasn't worth it.


I do understand and agree with you. I have to find ways to incorporate foods that are allowed having IC. On the IC diet there is no coffee or tea, no alcohol, no carbonated drinks, no citrus fruits or juices, no spicy spices, no cured meats, no soy, no artificial sweeteners, no pre-preserved foods (canned goods and meats), pretty much no condiments except herbs and garlic, no chocolate, no Indian food, no Mexican food, no tomato based foods, no Thai. 

I just have to get used to eating vegetable based meals with a side of grilled/baked protein.


----------



## Lila

3Xnocharm said:


> Pretty sure I would be homicidal...


Lol. I just wanted to sleep all of the time.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Lol. I just wanted to sleep all of the time.


Well, caffeine helps. I do make sure not to get overly dependent or addicted to it, as I don't want to deal with the headaches.

Also, you can ALWAYS snack on high nutrient veggies - any time - any day. Or a handful of nuts. That will help with the fog and the energy levels. True, I do start to lag when I'm close to dinner time, but then just looking forward to eating pulls me through because food tastes SO GOOD when doing IF. I literally look forward to it everyday, no matter what I'm having. A home made turkey and cheese on artisan bread is like a gourmet meal. Nom nom nom.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I think this is something that happens when you just aren't used to it.
> 
> No, I don't get the brain fog.
> 
> I drink lots of water, some caffeine, I sometimes chew gum, or snack on something inconsequential like hard candies.
> 
> So I think this is just a matter of me having done it like this for so long.
> 
> For example, I do not normally feel hunger in the morning at all. I'm not used to registering my hunger until around 3 pm.
> 
> But if I am on vacay with friends and we are all eating breakfast every day, then by the 3rd morning, I am very hungry in the morning.
> 
> I'm guessing I could switch my eating time so that I only ate breakfast and then nothing until the next morning except maybe a night time snack. I have never done it this way because I prefer the foods normally available for dinner over breakfast foods if it is going to be my only meal.
> 
> Another thing that is related: I have a lot of muscle that I have had all my life. I do not have to keep working it, it just does it's thing now. It is providing me with a lot of good balance with IF. There's more to the science there which I can't relate properly, but basically because I have so much muscle, all of the food I eat is better processed and metabolized.
> 
> So if others are going to IF but they are starting from a place without much muscle and tone, it is going to be much harder.
> 
> I know that isn't you, though. Was just pointing it out.
> 
> My guess is that you would have to just tough it out for the first week or so through the brain fog....and after that your body will adjust.
> 
> I personally now get a type of brain fog when I eat 3 meals a day. It feels like I'm a little bit on the edge of throwing up all the time and this affects my thinking and choices.


 I'm sure it gets easier to do with time. 

Did you always IF or was this something you started doing as an adult?


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. I just wanted to sleep all of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, caffeine helps. I do make sure not to get overly dependent or addicted to it, as I don't want to deal with the headaches.
> 
> Also, you can ALWAYS snack on high nutrient veggies - any time - any day. Or a handful of nuts. True, I do start to lag when I'm close to dinner time, but then just looking forward to eating pulls me through because food tastes SO GOOD when doing IF. I literally look forward to it everyday, no matter what I'm having. A home made turkey and cheese on artisan bread is like a gourmet meal. Nom nom nom.
Click to expand...

Of all of the things that are not allowed on my IC diet, coffee is the only one I really miss. God the smell of it makes me want to cry sometimes.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I'm sure it gets easier to do with time.
> 
> Did you always IF or was this something you started doing as an adult?


I was a pretty chubby teenager. I had to have a surgery right after I graduated, and I found that during the healing, I just wasn't very hungry. When I lost about 10 pounds in just a couple of weeks just because I had barely eaten, I was like, ok I'm getting this. After I was all healed up, I just started eating much much less. That worked for awhile, but it quickly became obvious that if I kept eating early in the day, it made me hungrier all day and very hungry in the mornings. So I slowly worked out for myself that eating only dinner was best. At first I kept those dinner calories really low, but eventually I realized I could eat up to 2,000 for dinner (within that 3 hour time range) and still maintain a lower weight.

Then I only tweaked it if I wanted to get super skinny for some reason (which I never do anymore).

At the time again, everyone was telling me that "you can't skip meals, your body will think you are in a starvation period and will keep hold of your fat no matter what!" I could see this wasn't true, so I ignored them. Also I always reasoned, the earth never provided 3 meals a day to humans before current times. You had to be a scavenger and you had to hunt for food literally every day, almost all day. There was no time when you laid around full on meat unless you and your tribe got lucky a few times a year. Gorging is simply something that can't be done day after day with only naturally provided food. 

So it made sense to me that feeling hunger was a good thing. It was prompting my metabolism to use the fuel I have in storage. While also prompting me to eat.

I'm very in tune with my body now.


----------



## Red Sonja

Hmmm ... I have been doing IF my entire adult life and just didn't know it. I literally forget to eat, my family and friends always tease me about it.

I suppose it worked ... I was a very tall/skinny teenager, I slowly filled out some by my mid-20's (finally got boobs, LOL) and have been the same (+/-10lbs) ever since. I think some of it has to be genetic though because my mother was 6' tall and weighed about 110lbs for most of her adult life ... she looked like Olive Oil from Popeye.

I started lifting weights in my early university years and have been regular at it ever since. One of my baseball coaches suggested it as a way to "fill out".


----------



## Not

Soooo.... I joined a group on meetup for divorced people over 40 here in my hometown. I’ve been to about five of the meets and have a good time with them. I’m the baby of the group at 46. Most are in their early 50’s and up and most of us are women, so I’m finally making a few friends! One of the men seems to be interested and that’s not a bad thing. He’s a good looking guy and in great shape, just turned 52 but can pass for 40. 

I hope I’m reading his signals right otherwise I’ll feel like an ass lol! I catch him looking at me a lot and at the last meet he approached me a few times to chat then stayed with the same activity groups I was with. He also sent me a friend request on FB. He seems sort of an introverty type, which I am as well, and seems to want to talk more than he allows himself and of course I don’t know what the hell I’m doing so aren’t helping as far as moving things along to get to know him more. 

We’re all meeting at a restaurant soon and I’m going to try to pull my introvert panties up and be a bit more forward with conversation. I have such a hard time thinking of things to talk about though, that has always been a weak spot for me.

I usually end up being the first to leave the meetups because I have to get up so early for work but haven’t told anyone that’s why I leave and last night I got the impression that he took it as a negative signal from me. I feel like I need to fix that. I hope he goes out for dinner with the rest of us.


----------



## Ynot

Not said:


> Soooo.... I joined a group on meetup for divorced people over 40 here in my hometown. I’ve been to about five of the meets and have a good time with them. I’m the baby of the group at 46. Most are in their early 50’s and up and most of us are women, so I’m finally making a few friends! One of the men seems to be interested and that’s not a bad thing. He’s a good looking guy and in great shape, just turned 52 but can pass for 40.
> 
> I hope I’m reading his signals right otherwise I’ll feel like an ass lol! I catch him looking at me a lot and at the last meet he approached me a few times to chat then stayed with the same activity groups I was with. He also sent me a friend request on FB. He seems sort of an introverty type, which I am as well, and seems to want to talk more than he allows himself and of course I don’t know what the hell I’m doing so aren’t helping as far as moving things along to get to know him more.
> 
> We’re all meeting at a restaurant soon and I’m going to try to pull my introvert panties up and be a bit more forward with conversation. I have such a hard time thinking of things to talk about though, that has always been a weak spot for me.
> 
> I usually end up being the first to leave the meetups because I have to get up so early for work but haven’t told anyone that’s why I leave and last night I got the impression that he took it as a negative signal from me. I feel like I need to fix that. I hope he goes out for dinner with the rest of us.


So exactly what do you want this guy to do and more importantly what do you want to know. He has looked at you and caught your eye. He has approached you multiple times. He has talked to you. He has asked you out. He has sent you a friend request on FB. By your own description he is more than acceptable to you. So what exactly do you want him to do. You must have some expectation. So if you are wondering what to talk to him about, talk to him about whatever it is you want to know. 
From the sounds of it, you know exactly what you want and are anxious to see if he can meet that for you.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> So exactly what do you want this guy to do and more importantly what do you want to know. He has looked at you and caught your eye. He has approached you multiple times. He has talked to you. He has asked you out. He has sent you a friend request on FB. By your own description he is more than acceptable to you. So what exactly do you want him to do. You must have some expectation. So if you are wondering what to talk to him about, talk to him about whatever it is you want to know.
> From the sounds of it, you know exactly what you want and are anxious to see if he can meet that for you.


I didn’t see here he asked her out?
@Not Do you know how recently he is divorced or anything about his history? If not that can be good conversation. Or it can quickly reveal things you would want to know, like if his ex is still stalking him or if he is still in love with her. You could maybe end up friend zoning each other and have a new friend. It’s nice having a guy friend.


----------



## Not

Ynot said:


> So exactly what do you want this guy to do and more importantly what do you want to know. He has looked at you and caught your eye. He has approached you multiple times. He has talked to you. He has asked you out. He has sent you a friend request on FB. By your own description he is more than acceptable to you. So what exactly do you want him to do. You must have some expectation. So if you are wondering what to talk to him about, talk to him about whatever it is you want to know.
> From the sounds of it, you know exactly what you want and are anxious to see if he can meet that for you.


No, he hasn’t asked me out. I don’t think he’s to that point yet. So far it’s just been some light conversation with him seeming to observe me the rest of the time. You’re right though, he’s the one who’s made attempts and approached me. Looks like it’s my turn.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I didn’t see here he asked her out?
> 
> @Not Do you know how recently he is divorced or anything about his history? If not that can be good conversation. Or it can quickly reveal things you would want to know, like if his ex is still stalking him or if he is still in love with her. You could maybe end up friend zoning each other and have a new friend. It’s nice having a guy friend.


My bad, she said we'll. I assumed that met her and the guy, but I guess in the context she meant the social group she is in from the Meet Up. But, my point still stands, what does she want? If she wants this guy to ask her out, or to take her home, be a TV buddy, ravish her, join her at MeetUps, whatever - that is what she should talk about with him.


----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> I didn’t see here he asked her out?
> 
> @Not Do you know how recently he is divorced or anything about his history? If not that can be good conversation. Or it can quickly reveal things you would want to know, like if his ex is still stalking him or if he is still in love with her. You could maybe end up friend zoning each other and have a new friend. It’s nice having a guy friend.


All I know is that he bought his own place within the past year and he was drowning his sorrows in alcohol for a while ( I’m suspecting he didn’t want his divorce or was cheated on ) but has turned things around and is working out everyday and trying to start up his own side business but I don’t know yet what kind. He’s in marketing and loves photography so I suspect the business is related to photography. He seems to be a fan of art. This is what I’ve gathered from his FB. 

The friend zone thing would never be a bad thing, I don’t have many friends yet. 😊


----------



## Ynot

Not said:


> No, he hasn’t asked me out. I don’t think he’s to that point yet. So far it’s just been some light conversation with him seeming to observe me the rest of the time. You’re right though, he’s the one who’s made attempts and approached me. Looks like it’s my turn.


See my previous post, I misinterpreted what you had written. But kudos for asserting your own self interests. In today's world, for us, there really is no reason for anyone not too.


----------



## Not

Ynot said:


> My bad, she said we'll. I assumed that met her and the guy, but I guess in the context she meant the social group she is in from the Meet Up. But, my point still stands, what does she want? If she wants this guy to ask her out, or to take her home, be a TV buddy, ravish her, join her at MeetUps, whatever - that is what she should talk about with him.


I think for now I just want to get to know him and go from there. If I like who he is then...I don’t know after that. I’m hoping that whatever may be there will just naturally evolve on its own.


----------



## Ynot

Not said:


> All I know is that he bought his own place within the past year and he was drowning his sorrows in alcohol for a while ( I’m suspecting he didn’t want his divorce or was cheated on ) but has turned things around and is working out everyday and trying to start up his own side business but I don’t know yet what kind. He’s in marketing and loves photography so I suspect the business is related to photography. He seems to be a fan of art. This is what I’ve gathered from his FB.


THIS ^^^^^^^ is what you talk to him about. You said you didn't know what to talk about. That is if any of this interests you. People like talking about themselves, having an honest discussion with him will lead him to be more open with you. Most people are not honest when they first meet. Instead they try to be coy or act in whatever manner they assume the other may want them to act. They never just be themselves.


----------



## sunsetmist

Not said:


> All I know is that he bought his own place within the past year and he was drowning his sorrows in alcohol for a while ( I’m suspecting he didn’t want his divorce or was cheated on ) but has turned things around and is working out everyday and trying to start up his own side business but I don’t know yet what kind. He’s in marketing and loves photography so I suspect the business is related to photography. He seems to be a fan of art. This is what I’ve gathered from his FB.
> 
> The friend zone thing would never be a bad thing, I don’t have many friends yet. &#55357;&#56842;


Ask:
Has he seen recent photography exhibit? Art show? Does he paint? Is he artistic? What kind of camera does he have? Does he like his new place? His new neighbors? 

Tell me about your car, family, job, where you went to school, favorite movie, TV show?

Do you like to travel, cook, sports, hiking, music?????

Most important listen and care!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> All I know is that he bought his own place within the past year and he was drowning his sorrows in alcohol for a while ( I’m suspecting he didn’t want his divorce or was cheated on ) but has turned things around and is working out everyday and trying to start up his own side business but I don’t know yet what kind. He’s in marketing and loves photography so I suspect the business is related to photography. He seems to be a fan of art. This is what I’ve gathered from his FB.
> 
> The friend zone thing would never be a bad thing, I don’t have many friends yet. 😊


Yeah soooo....you could possibly find out that he has a history with alcohol. Or that it was a huge part of his marriage break up. And that’s when you are happy you’re still just friends! Quickly switch to friend mode and see how it goes. 

Or....as you said, you might just get to know him slowly, there won’t be any red flags, and you’ll both realize pretty quick that it feels romantic.

If you’re both introverted, it’s going to be a bit of a challenge for you both. But that’s ok too, as it sounds like you are easy going about it. Best place to be. :smile2:


----------



## FeministInPink

@3Xnocharm ... I know this is difficult for you. Even though you've only been his "girlfriend" for a year now, you've invested 4+ yrs in this man, and I've observed this the entire time. And I know you don't want to, but you are going to have to let him go. 

He's never going to be the partner that you want or need. Before you got together, you had three years to build up the fantasy in your head of how great this relationship would be when he finally came to his senses and realized he should be with you. Well, he's finally WITH you, and he is failing to meet your expectations... and honestly, I'm not surprised. You've put him on a bit of a pedestal, I'm afraid. (To anyone else reading, 3x and I have had many conversations off of TAM, so I have more context than many of you do.) I saw a number of red flags that you were ignoring, but I didn't say anything because I knew you had to see all of this through and figure it out for yourself. Now that you've spent a year with the man, do you see that he's not as great for you as you thought he would be?

I know this is tough, because he's also been your best friend all these years, and it's going to be really hard to get back to that, even if you ever can. I think you need to break it off with him and distance yourself from him as much as possible. You won't be able to be friends with him if you can't stand to see him move on and date other people; that's just going to hurt you even more. You need to find a way to get over him, because he's no good for you, and if that means cutting him out of your life entirely, that's what you'll have to do.

He inspires the caretaker in you, 3x. He's a mess, and you want to help him and fix him. Which is admirable to a certain extent, but it's not good for a relationship. And this may be affecting his ability to feel attraction for you and see you as a sexual being. From what you've told me, it sounds to me like you've been "mothering" him a bit... you've come to his rescue multiple times when he's really screwed up, when he should be manning up and taking responsibility for his mistakes.

You deserve a lot more than what this guy can offer, and it appears to me that he doesn't have much to offer in the first place. You've already spent 4 years of time and energy on him. Don't waste any more time on him.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> @3Xnocharm ... I know this is difficult for you. Even though you've only been his "girlfriend" for a year now, you've invested 4+ yrs in this man, and I've observed this the entire time. And I know you don't want to, but you are going to have to let him go.
> 
> He's never going to be the partner that you want or need. Before you got together, you had three years to build up the fantasy in your head of how great this relationship would be when he finally came to his senses and realized he should be with you. Well, he's finally WITH you, and he is failing to meet your expectations... and honestly, I'm not surprised. You've put him on a bit of a pedestal, I'm afraid. *(To anyone else reading, 3x and I have had many conversations off of TAM, so I have more context than many of you do.) *I saw a number of red flags that you were ignoring, but I didn't say anything because I knew you had to see all of this through and figure it out for yourself. Now that you've spent a year with the man, do you see that he's not as great for you as you thought he would be?


I can always count on you for honesty, FIP  I knew the advice I would get, that is why I never posted about all this until now, because I know myself what I need to do. Its just been a matter of building myself up to actually do it. I have always been aware of flags/flaws with him but chose to focus on the good. (brilliant, right?)



FeministInPink said:


> I know this is tough, because he's also been your best friend all these years, and it's going to be really hard to get back to that, even if you ever can. I think you need to break it off with him and distance yourself from him as much as possible. You won't be able to be friends with him if you can't stand to see him move on and date other people; that's just going to hurt you even more. You need to find a way to get over him, because he's no good for you, and if that means cutting him out of your life entirely, that's what you'll have to do.


This is the hardest part for me, I cant see staying his friend because of my feelings. 



FeministInPink said:


> He inspires the caretaker in you, 3x. He's a mess, and you want to help him and fix him. Which is admirable to a certain extent, but it's not good for a relationship. And this may be affecting his ability to feel attraction for you and see you as a sexual being. From what you've told me, it sounds to me like you've been "mothering" him a bit... you've come to his rescue multiple times when he's really screwed up, when he should be manning up and taking responsibility for his mistakes.


You are right, at least he used to. I don't rescue him any more, and in all honestly, I have been kind of a crappy girlfriend myself. I just have nothing else to give since I am getting nothing back. My tank is empty. I cant even initiate any intimacy because after you get turned down and let down so much, after a while it just DIES. He better not ever twist this to other people in the future and make it seem like it was MY fault, like I didn't want it.. I will lose my ****!



FeministInPink said:


> *You deserve a lot more than what this guy can offer, and it appears to me that he doesn't have much to offer in the first place.* You've already spent 4 years of time and energy on him. Don't waste any more time on him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You are 100% right on both. Thank you and I love ya, chic.


----------



## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I can always count on you for honesty, FIP  I knew the advice I would get, that is why I never posted about all this until now, because I know myself what I need to do. Its just been a matter of building myself up to actually do it. I have always been aware of flags/flaws with him but chose to focus on the good. (brilliant, right?)



Don't beat yourself up about doing this. Everyone in a relationship has to focus on the positive attributes and downplay the negatives in their partner in order to sustain love in a long-term relationship, because NO ONE is perfect. Even people in the most healthy, best relationships have to do this to a certain degree. The problem is when you do TOO MUCH of this, and when you're used to receiving and accepting less than you deserve (identified by past relationship patterns and FOO relationships), it's really hard to discern what are acceptable flaws and what should be dealbreakers.

It's like food... just the right amount and the right combination means you will be well-nourished and healthy. Too much and you become unhealthy and burdened by extra weight.





3Xnocharm said:


> This is the hardest part for me, I cant see staying his friend because of my feelings.


You may be able to be friends again someday, but that day is a long time from now, and only after your feelings have changed and you have moved on. Once you reach that point, you may realize that you have nothing in common and don't even want a friendship with him anymore.





3Xnocharm said:


> You are right, at least he used to. I don't rescue him any more, and in all honestly, I have been kind of a crappy girlfriend myself. I just have nothing else to give since I am getting nothing back. My tank is empty. I cant even initiate any intimacy because after you get turned down and let down so much, after a while it just DIES. He better not ever twist this to other people in the future and make it seem like it was MY fault, like I didn't want it.. I will lose my ****!


He may not need rescuing at this point in time, but you never know if/when he will again. And even if that isn't true in the present, you and he have already established that dynamic, and it will never entirely go away, and it is likely still having an impact on your present relationship.

In fact, there may even be some subconscious resentment towards you on his part, and this may be why he withholds affection. And I'm not surprised if you've become a crappy girlfriend... if he's not filling your love bank, how can you give back to him? In a healthy relationship, each person is regularly filling the other's bank by showing loving behavior, and that full bank gives you the strength, love, and energy to continue to engage in behavior to fill one another's bank. It's natural to become detached and less giving when your partner is neglectful of your needs.

It is frustrating to hear about the physical intimacy issue. Even if a man has ED problems, there are other ways he can engage in physical intimacy and satisfy his partner. The fact that he can't even be bothered to do that shows that he doesn't care about your satisfaction in the relationship, and causes me to lose any respect I had for the man. 

Unfortunately, you have no control over what he says or does, and it may be that he spins all of this to favor himself and make himself look better in the future. Just feel sorry for the next woman who hears his sob story about how you ruined everything, and feel sorry for him because you know the truth.





3Xnocharm said:


> You are 100% right on both. Thank you and I love ya, chic.


Girl, you know I have your back. Ping me off TAM if you need to talk.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## RandomDude

Lila said:


> I won't be attracting better. It will take an enormous effort to become top 10% only to be able to attract the middle of the pack within my age bracket, at best. That's a whole lot of effort for so so rewards.
> 
> 
> 
> Attempting to out best my ex husband is a waste of time. He's top 1-3% compared to the single men I've seen online. I'm not seeking guys like him, a.k.a the best. I'm not asking for more than I can offer but even the ones that are equal to me in looks and lifestyle are out of my league.
> 
> My choices for dating are do I put in enormous effort to hopefully attract a compatible guy I find passably attractive or do I do nothing and settle for someone I'm not attracted to or incompatible to me.
> 
> Yes, I am getting a chance at a second life but it wasn't one that I asked for nor wanted. I am trying to make the best of it but I'm learning that the best this time around will never ever come close to what I had before.


I used to think the same way, have a look at my posts before april last year. I had given up all hope actually. Then I fell in love with someone who is infinitely better than anyone I had ever met. You never know these things, it just happens when it wants to happen.

Im not the cream of the crop myself yet I found myself an angel of a woman who is stunningly beautiful both in and out who had (and still has) men salivating at her feet yet loves me in all entirety and I her.

I also used to think my ex was the top of the crop, i was also horribly mistaken. There is a very, VERY wide spectrum of quality with partners, just the spectrum is more a pyramid than a bar.


----------



## Lila

RandomDude said:


> I used to think the same way, have a look at my posts before april last year. I had given up all hope actually. Then I fell in love with someone who is infinitely better than anyone I had ever met. You never know these things, it just happens when it wants to happen.
> 
> Im not the cream of the crop myself yet I found myself an angel of a woman who is stunningly beautiful both in and out who had (and still has) men salivating at her feet yet loves me in all entirety and I her.
> 
> I also used to think my ex was the top of the crop, i was also horribly mistaken. There is a very, VERY wide spectrum of quality with partners, just the spectrum is more a pyramid than a bar.


Thanks for the encouraging words @RandomDude. I'm glad to hear that you've found a special lady to share your love. Your happiness comes through in your words 🙂. 

Can you explain what you meant by "the spectrum is more a pyramid than a bar"?


----------



## RandomDude

Lila said:


> Thanks for the encouraging words @RandomDude. I'm glad to hear that you've found a special lady to share your love. Your happiness comes through in your words 🙂.
> 
> Can you explain what you meant by "the spectrum is more a pyramid than a bar"?


What I mean by the spectrum of quality is that there are always going to be more people who are going to be simply incompatible, heck even those who you may think are the best occupy only a slightly higher "slot" on the pyramid.

Before I met my girlfriend I simply didnt know any better, I thought my exs were the best Ill ever find and well, gave up on being able to truly love someone. Thats what I mean by the pyramid, the compatible ones are out there, but its not a bar where you have equal numbers compatible and incompatible. You simply have to hold out for the top of the pyramid, which is rarer, but what I want for you is to not be discouraged by the vast numbers of incompatible souls but to hold onto hope.

I have several regrets from not holding onto hope myself, giving up on love led to some... Ugliness that I wouldnt have adopted if I kept my head held high. Hence I want to share why hope is worth it, even when all hope is lost.


----------



## RandomDude

Don't you just hate it when you're like, the last person to post on this thread.

It's like "I'm a thread killer!"

Anyway folks. I got a speeding ticket. Instead of learning my lesson, I downloaded a speed cam app. 

Carry on...


----------



## sunsetmist

Tell me more about speeding cam apps, please. I wanted to do damage to the person who passed me on the right speeding down the X-way and pulled in front of me. Then, he, after changing lanes repeatedly, still ended up right in front of me this morning. Do these apps have laser annihilators? 

Uhhh, hope it wasn't you cause I put a curse on him.


----------



## Ynot

sunsetmist said:


> Tell me more about speeding cam apps, please. I wanted to do damage to the person who passed me on the right speeding down the X-way and pulled in front of me. Then, he, after changing lanes repeatedly, still ended up right in front of me this morning. Do these apps have laser annihilators?
> 
> Uhhh, hope it wasn't you cause I put a curse on him.


I had a friend who wanted to design a disintegrator ray. I suggested that the bigger the a-hole they were the more spectacular the disintegration would be.


----------



## Not

He has asked me out. We haven’t decided what we’re doing yet though.

The dinner meet had us all crammed into a booth, about 9 of us, so conversation was all over the place with all of us participating so he and I didn’t get a chance to talk. Plus he had invited a new member to the group and spent a lot of time with her I think to help her feel welcome. You can’t exactly invite someone into a group they know nothing about and then abandon them. 

This morning I started a conversation online with other members of this divorce group asking questions about OLD. He jumped in with lots of tips and advice but then threw me off at the end of his last comment. He said I might meet someone good or realize I already have. I could think of no other way to interpret that other than that was him telling me he is interested.

He contacted me about two hours later via messenger and we talked for quite a while. His last relationship was actually a girlfriend who broke things off with him, he took it hard. He’s been divorced for years and has had a few long term relationships since but nothing serious enough to convince him to settle down. Not sure if that means anything, I’ll have to get to know him better. No kids.

The only thing that had my radar blipping was the way he would word some things. Like “I’m completely alone” or “Being alone freaks me out” and “I’m in the friend zone with a few women, not ideal, but better than nothing”. It’s hard to know how to take that without seeing the body language that goes with it. Thoughts?

So, I think I’ll message him back tomorrow and suggest....what? Help me out! 😃 Just coffee?


----------



## sunsetmist

Not said:


> He has asked me out. We haven’t decided what we’re doing yet though.....
> 
> This morning I started a conversation online with other members of this divorce group asking questions about OLD. He jumped in with lots of tips and advice but then threw me off at the end of his last comment. He said I might meet someone good or realize I already have. I could think of no other way to interpret that other than that was him telling me he is interested.....
> 
> He contacted me about two hours later via messenger and we talked for quite a while. ....
> The only thing that had my radar blipping was the way he would word some things. Like “I’m completely alone” or “Being alone freaks me out” and “I’m in the friend zone with a few women, not ideal, but better than nothing”. It’s hard to know how to take that without seeing the body language that goes with it. Thoughts?
> 
> So, I think I’ll message him back tomorrow and suggest....what? Help me out! 😃 Just coffee?


Don't expect too much and then good will be nice surprise. Body language is so important. Could he be letting you know he is not involved with someone, but looking for relationship? Is cofffffeeeee too short? Weather where you live? What would he suggest? I like that he sorta gave you a warning before he contacted you...


----------



## john117

Being alone freaks me out? 

Next!!


----------



## FeministInPink

john117 said:


> Being alone freaks me out?
> 
> Next!!


Yeah... that's a bit of a red flag. 
@Not You deserve someone who wants to be with you for YOU, not because they're scared to be alone.


----------



## FeministInPink

Not said:


> He has asked me out. We haven’t decided what we’re doing yet though.
> 
> The dinner meet had us all crammed into a booth, about 9 of us, so conversation was all over the place with all of us participating so he and I didn’t get a chance to talk. Plus he had invited a new member to the group and spent a lot of time with her I think to help her feel welcome. You can’t exactly invite someone into a group they know nothing about and then abandon them.
> 
> This morning I started a conversation online with other members of this divorce group asking questions about OLD. He jumped in with lots of tips and advice but then threw me off at the end of his last comment. He said I might meet someone good or realize I already have. I could think of no other way to interpret that other than that was him telling me he is interested.
> 
> He contacted me about two hours later via messenger and we talked for quite a while. His last relationship was actually a girlfriend who broke things off with him, he took it hard. He’s been divorced for years and has had a few long term relationships since but nothing serious enough to convince him to settle down. Not sure if that means anything, I’ll have to get to know him better. No kids.
> 
> The only thing that had my radar blipping was the way he would word some things. Like “I’m completely alone” or “Being alone freaks me out” and “I’m in the friend zone with a few women, not ideal, but better than nothing”. It’s hard to know how to take that without seeing the body language that goes with it. Thoughts?
> 
> So, I think I’ll message him back tomorrow and suggest....what? Help me out! 😃 Just coffee?


In addition to what I said above, the "friend zone" comment he made is weird. Being "friend zoned" is better than nothing? Seriously? That sounds to me like he would date any woman who was interested, because any woman is better than no woman at all! Is THAT who you want as a partner? Somebody who will "settle" for you because you're "better than nothing" is the type of person who will drop you in a minute when something better comes along.

Guuuurrrrllll, you deserve better than that!


----------



## RandomDude

And this is why it pays to be picky folks, besides your future spouse will appreciate it 
I always try to make my girlfriend feel like she's the only one, that I've been waiting for her my whole life, that I've messed up by settling in the past, and that there's no comparison. 

How does that make her feel compared to how it would be like if I actually just settled for her? One can imagine I'm sure!

Society has this mentality "beggars can't be choosers", meh we shouldn't be beggars in the first place! Love isn't something to beg for, love for yourself starts from within.


----------



## attheend02

FeministInPink said:


> In addition to what I said above, the "friend zone" comment he made is weird. Being "friend zoned" is better than nothing? Seriously? That sounds to me like he would date any woman who was interested, because any woman is better than no woman at all! Is THAT who you want as a partner? Somebody who will "settle" for you because you're "better than nothing" is the type of person who will drop you in a minute when something better comes along.
> 
> Guuuurrrrllll, you deserve better than that!



As someone new to dating after 28 years, I find some of these comments somewhat disconcerting. While I understand looking for red flags and all, *Not* hasn't even gone on a date with the guy yet.

I think if you ask someone about OLD and they give honest answers, maybe they should get the benefit of the doubt.

I've been on a couple of dates since separating and said some things that I wish I hadn't. Should they be looked at as Red Flags? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I was just nervous about meeting someone new and was inarticulate.

Any way, I hope my comment is taken in the spirit of discussion. I've been enjoying this thread as a new member and don't mean to offend anyone.


----------



## Lila

Not said:


> The only thing that had my radar blipping was the way he would word some things. *Like “I’m completely alone” or “Being alone freaks me out” and “I’m in the friend zone with a few women, not ideal, but better than nothing”.* It’s hard to know how to take that without seeing the body language that goes with it. Thoughts?


He sounds like a potential clinger. I would ask about the comments in bold. Find ways to get him to talk about his life. Ask him what he misses most about being partnered/what he likes most about being single and follow that line of conversation to get the answers you need. 

The last guy I dated during my time on Match turned out to be a class 10 clinger wearing sheep's clothing. Luckily I drilled down enough to get him to tell me what's really going on by the time the 3rd date rolled around. Nice guy but you know it's bad when *I* am the one telling him he needs therapy.


----------



## Lila

attheend02 said:


> As someone new to dating after 28 years, I find some of these comments somewhat disconcerting. While I understand looking for red flags and all, *Not* hasn't even gone on a date with the guy yet.
> 
> I think if you ask someone about OLD and they give honest answers, maybe they should get the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> I've been on a couple of dates since separating and said some things that I wish I hadn't. Should they be looked at as Red Flags? Maybe, maybe not.  Maybe I was just nervous about meeting someone new and was inarticulate.
> 
> Any way, I hope my comment is taken in the spirit of discussion. I've been enjoying this thread as a new member and don't mean to offend anyone.


The paradox of choice was studied in the famous Jam Experiment. Research showed that there can be too much choice; when there is, consumers are less likely to buy anything at all, and *if they do buy, they are less satisfied with their selection*. They found that more choice _requires increased time and effort and can lead to anxiety, regret, excessively high expectations, and self-blame if the choices don’t work out. _. Combine this with a perceived sense of abundance and you have OLD. 

People on OLD are going to be pickier given more choices. They are going to be hyper aware of anything they see as a red flag. Many are paralyzed by too many choices or keep turning down potential partners because "they can find better". Like it or not, that's what you get with OLD.


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## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> People on OLD are going to be pickier given more choices. They are going to be hyper aware of anything they see as a red flag. Many are paralyzed by too many choices or keep turning down potential partners because "they can find better". Like it or not, that's what you get with OLD.


I've always used the analogy with men on OLD that its like an all you can eat buffet. Even though they tried and enjoyed the most delicious dish presented, they still keep going back to the buffet table hoping that something even better was brought up just because they can, so they dont feel like they missed out.


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## Ynot

I think that a big problem many of us folks have with OLD is that we are attempting to understand it from the standpoint of our past. Before I got married, OLD didn't exist. Meeting people was done the old fashioned way - organically or thru friends and family or work. Your possibilities were for the most part limited to those within your sphere of contact.
Then 15-25 years later, we are thrown out into a different world. Suddenly our personal spheres of contact are much smaller. We have been married and lost contact. The people we knew are either married or no longer available. Some of them are more stuck in their own ways. So meeting someone organically is not always possible. 
Enter OLD, now your contacts have increased exponentially, beyond what ever you may have had in the past. Suddenly we are no longer competing against Bob or Susie in home room, or the accounting department or the next block over. Now there is also Jim and Jane from the next town over or across the state. 
But the reality is that in terms of numbers you are not really competing against more people. because now Bob or Susie are no longer competing against you. They may have given up, or they may be married or worse, dead. I really think that most people go into OLD with the scarcity mindset that there is one person out there for them. But the reality is that there are multitudes of choices out there for you. 
One difference is that when you were younger you had a network of contacts to help you vet someone you were interested in. So you could ask a friend about the person and get some feed back before deciding if they were someone you wanted to pursue. In OLD that is not often the case. You have to do more of the work yourself. So you may have to kiss a lot more frogs hoping to find your prince or you may have go on a lot of bad dates before you find someone you click with.
But life is an adventure, so go out and explore and find new things and meet new people. Be open to opportunities and look at the world as a source of abundance and not a place of limitations. If you meet someone and you don't click, don't be all butthurt about it. Learn a new lesson and continue on your journey.


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## Lila

3Xnocharm said:


> I've always used the analogy with men on OLD that its like an all you can eat buffet. Even though they tried and enjoyed the most delicious dish presented, they still keep going back to the buffet table hoping that something even better was brought up just because they can, so they dont feel like they missed out.


That's a great analogy and I do agree with one caveat... Women are like this as well.


----------



## Not

Thanks for the replies everyone. I didn’t like the comments because they seemed rather melodramatic to me. Lila, I had the same thought. I’ll meet with him and ask more on those specific comments.

I had mentioned in the past, in front of him, that I am alone here in my town. No family or friends and that it was something that scared me a little in that I have no one to help me in an emergency. So, with what I’ve had to deal with in the past, manipulation and lying, when this guy made those comments I instantly thought he may be using my fears of being alone as a tool to reel me in. I’m jaded in that way. 

So I’ll meet with him and hammer away at him on those points. I can’t think of any reasonable explanation as to why being alone would freak him out but I’ll give him a chance to elaborate. 

Now for an awesome side note! My sister and her husband and their two children are coming to visit me this spring because they’re seriously considering moving out here!!! My sister is already looking at houses and jobs out here! Please keep your fingers crossed for me because this would be a really great thing! I can think of nothing I want more than this.


----------



## Not

FeministInPink said:


> In addition to what I said above, the "friend zone" comment he made is weird. Being "friend zoned" is better than nothing? Seriously? That sounds to me like he would date any woman who was interested, because any woman is better than no woman at all! Is THAT who you want as a partner? Somebody who will "settle" for you because you're "better than nothing" is the type of person who will drop you in a minute when something better comes along.
> 
> Guuuurrrrllll, you deserve better than that!


Yeah, that comment was a little over the top for me. He seems different in person though, not like he was sounding during our chat. Which may be another red flag lol! Anyway, he gets one chance, over coffee, to impress me. I’m not feeling like he’s going to pass go and collect anything though.


----------



## Blondilocks

Not said:


> Yeah, that comment was a little over the top for me. He seems different in person though, not like he was sounding during our chat. Which may be another red flag lol! Anyway, he gets one chance, over coffee, to impress me. I’m not feeling like he’s going to pass go and collect anything though.


In stating he is alone, he may have been trying to connect with you after your statement. BTW, you are not alone & you do have family nearby - you have two daughters living with you. Yes, it would be great if your sister moves near you. 

Good luck with your date.


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I've always used the analogy with men on OLD that its like an all you can eat buffet. Even though they tried and enjoyed the most delicious dish presented, they still keep going back to the buffet table hoping that something even better was brought up just because they can, so they dont feel like they missed out.


And here's the thing about an all-you-can-eat buffet... in theory, it's a great thing, but most people eat far more than their body needs, and if you keep going back to that buffet and stuffing yourself full all the time, you get fat and you become insulin- resistant because you're eating too much and all the unhealthy food isn't actually that good, and it's bad for you, but you keep going back because it's cheap and not really that appetizing when you think about it, because it's actually all cheap, low-quality food, which has been sitting out on that buffet for hours, and everyone's been breathing on it, and it's getting dried out and mealy, and who knows, you might even get food poisoning.

It makes you wonder why any self-respecting person who actually cares about their health, and who cares about what they put into their bodies, would go to an all-you-can-eat buffet.

That's kind of where I am/how I feel about OLD. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> And here's the thing about an all-you-can-eat buffet... in theory, it's a great thing, but most people eat far more than their body needs, and if you keep going back to that buffet and stuffing yourself full all the time, you get fat and you become insulin- resistant because you're eating too much and all the unhealthy food isn't actually that good, and it's bad for you, but you keep going back because it's cheap and not really that appetizing when you think about it, because it's actually all cheap, low-quality food, which has been sitting out on that buffet for hours, and everyone's been breathing on it, and it's getting dried out and mealy, and who knows, you might even get food poisoning.
> 
> It makes you wonder why any self-respecting person who actually cares about their health, and who cares about what they put into their bodies, would go to an all-you-can-eat buffet.
> 
> That's kind of where I am/how I feel about OLD.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Omg I love this! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Omg I love this!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I love the validation 

Me? I know exactly what I want, and I'll find it on the menu at a sit-down restaurant. I'm not going to find it on an all-you-can-eat buffet. Because I don't like to eat crap.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> It makes you wonder why any self-respecting person who actually cares about their health, and who cares about what they put into their bodies, would go to an all-you-can-eat buffet.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


For the crab legs!


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## Faithful Wife

I guess I don’t know what the analogy of a sit down restaurant would be. If OLD is a buffet....then where or what is the sit down restaurant? Do you mean meeting people in real life? 

I’ve literally never been asked out in a random situation, never met a man in public who asked for my number. I don’t know where I would go to find a menu to order off of? It’s true, I’m not putting myself out there in places one might expect to meet people. But even if I did, where would those places be?

A guy I was talking to recently told me that it’s something to do with the guys around here. He said he is from Chicago and guys there don’t just sit around watching women walk by, they actually approach and talk to women and ask them out. He said people are very passive here in general. 

I can buy that, but it still leaves me with basically no options for meeting anyone in real life. It could still happen I suppose! It would be completely unexpected of course, but I would welcome it if it happens. 

In the meantime... I’m on OLD....


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## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> I’ve literally never been asked out in a random situation, never met a man in public who asked for my number. I don’t know where I would go to find a menu to order off of? It’s true, I’m not putting myself out there in places one might expect to meet people. But even if I did, where would those places be?



You really never know. There was one evening I was at the gas station putting air in all my truck tires, and this nice (and pretty damn attractive!) man came up and offered to do it for me. I let him help me, he was super friendly, and if I hadn’t had my heart elsewhere, I would have at least inquired about his current status, lol... So the universe is very random, it can happen at any point you aren’t expecting!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> You really never know. There was one evening I was at the gas station putting air in all my truck tires, and this nice (and pretty damn attractive!) man came up and offered to do it for me. I let him help me, he was super friendly, and if I hadn’t had my heart elsewhere, I would have at least inquired about his current status, lol... So the universe is very random, it can happen at any point you aren’t expecting!


You’re right! If it happens it will just be anywhere, it won’t have to be me going out trying to find someone.

I’ll always be open to it. :smile2:

It did happen to me once actually....and it was actually the most awesome romantic thing. I was on a beach in Florida in a cabana on vacation with my sister, and a group of guys several cabanas down were playing football and frisbee, and clearly trying to catch our attention. We were watching the guys play but my eye caught one guy who was still just sitting in the cabana. He seemed to be looking right at me and did a “hey” tip of his head to me and smiled. I smiled back.

A few hours later, his group seemed to be wrapping up their gear, and the guy walked down to our cabana to talk to me. He was all smiles and flirty and confident. But he said almost immediately that he was bummed because he and his crew were leaving the next day. He still wanted to exchange numbers and meet up later in town, me and my sis and his crew. We did all meet up out that night, and he and I went off to a corner to talk. 

We had a great evening, and when we were all walking back to our hotel, he and I slipped off down to the beach for a romantic walk. We ended up laying on one of the cabana beds (no cushions at night) and kissing passionately and looking at the stars.

As well as the fact that he was leaving the next morning, he also lived in Arizona, and I don’t. So no matter how nice of an evening it was, there wasn’t really any future for us. I met him at his car in the morning to say goodbye. We kissed more, and then parted, both really really bummed.

We kept in touch by text for a long time and even still occasionally check in. I call him my beach babe, the unfulfilled fantasy guy. It could have been one time wild monkey sex, I guess, but I have never and would never do that with someone I just met. He never pushed for it, either. 

Instead it is just a lovely memory of laying on that cabana and wishing the night would never end.


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## Faithful Wife

Oops, I guess I did meet my ex h in public, at random, and he asked for my number. It was so long ago, pre OLD, and was so magical that I never really think about it when I’m comparing my current life. And was still the only event of its kind. 

The beach babe wasn’t really the same....because there was always the fact that we don’t even live in the same city in order for him to ask me on a date.


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## Ynot

I was filling the gas tank on my motorcycle after taking a ride. A car pulled up beside me and a younger woman rolled down her window and said hello. I thought she was going to ask for directions. I went up to the car and she asked if I lived in the area. I told I did. She said she had just been driving by and saw this handsome man filling the tank on his motorcycle and just had to stop. Then she gave me her number and told me to call her. 
I never did call her. I was seeing someone at the time. But still! Talk about ego boosting!


----------



## Not

Blondilocks said:


> In stating he is alone, he may have been trying to connect with you after your statement. BTW, you are not alone & you do have family nearby - you have two daughters living with you. Yes, it would be great if your sister moves near you.
> 
> Good luck with your date.


Turns out he really is alone. It’s just him and one sister who lives out of state. They have no other family.

I know I have my girls but I do fear finding myself in a situation where I’m unable to support them. I have no one to fall back on to help me in a situation like that and that’s part of why I want my sister with me so badly. She’s family and would do anything for my girls, as I would for her and her kids.


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## Not

Update on the dude. 😁

By the time it was time for me to leave the house to meet with him I knew it would just be a friend thing. I didn’t really want to go even. His comments had become like a bucket of ice water on any interest I had. He is alone so that was legit. He has no family but one sister who lives down south, so very similar to me. The friend zone comment from the day before jived with more comments he made today that made him seem a little desperate. I think he thinks he doesn’t have any options and will take anyone who will have him. 

I’ve read the discussion about OLD from today, I’m gonna jump in. One of the tips I was given from my divorce group is to use a site where my profile can be private and I can then do the contacting and not be bombarded by all the wackos. We’ll see how it goes!


----------



## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> For the crab legs!


Literally the ONLY reason I go to a buffet. There's a place near me that does a brunch buffet with crab legs, and I love going there. The place is crazy busy and their food is SOOOOO good... better quality than most places, and everything on the buffet is fresh because it's constantly being refilled because they are so busy. Expensive AF, but so worth it.





Faithful Wife said:


> I guess I don’t know what the analogy of a sit down restaurant would be. If OLD is a buffet....then where or what is the sit down restaurant? Do you mean meeting people in real life?
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve literally never been asked out in a random situation, never met a man in public who asked for my number. I don’t know where I would go to find a menu to order off of? It’s true, I’m not putting myself out there in places one might expect to meet people. But even if I did, where would those places be?
> 
> 
> 
> A guy I was talking to recently told me that it’s something to do with the guys around here. He said he is from Chicago and guys there don’t just sit around watching women walk by, they actually approach and talk to women and ask them out. He said people are very passive here in general.
> 
> 
> 
> I can buy that, but it still leaves me with basically no options for meeting anyone in real life. It could still happen I suppose! It would be completely unexpected of course, but I would welcome it if it happens.
> 
> 
> 
> In the meantime... I’m on OLD....


It wasn't meant to be a direct analogy... I was actually writing my thoughts about buffets, since most of it seemed to fit. I have no idea what the dating equivalent of a sit-down restaurant would be 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Literally the ONLY reason I go to a buffet. There's a place near me that does a brunch buffet with crab legs, and I love going there. The place is crazy busy and their food is SOOOOO good... better quality than most places, and everything on the buffet is fresh because it's constantly being refilled because they are so busy. Expensive AF, but so worth it.


One year I went to Myrtle Beach with my BILs and a few friends to golf. We were trying to decide where to go to dinner. We all decided we wanted crab legs. We ended up with 2 choices - an all you can eat seafood buffet or a sit down restaurant. The prices for both was $29.99 for all you can eat crab legs. By one BIL kept insisting we go to the restaurant because the food was better.
We had to explain, for $29.99 you go to the sit down restaurant. First they pile on bread and hush puppies to snack on, while you are waiting for your meal. Then they serve you salad. 10-15 minutes later, when your crab legs finally arrive, they bring you one cluster. You devour those, meticulously picking and digging all the meat out. The waiter will come around 5 or 10 minutes later to see if you would like more. Then 5-10 minutes later bring you one more cluster. By that time you have perhaps a half hour invested and have had 2 clusters and had to really work hard to get the meat.
In the meantime, at the buffet, you load your plate down with as many clusters as you can fit. You go back to your table and dig in. When you snap a leg open, if the meat is not hanging out to grab, you toss that one to the side and dig into your next leg or cluster. Ten minutes later when you have destroyed those five cluster you go back and load up again. You can do that 4 or 5 times, if you want, in that same half hour.
All you can eat crab leg buffets are a testament to American prosperity. You can literally waste enough crab legs to feed a starving family in some third world nation. But at least you get your money's worth haha.


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## FeministInPink

Ynot said:


> One year I went to Myrtle Beach with my BILs and a few friends to golf. We were trying to decide where to go to dinner. We all decided we wanted crab legs. We ended up with 2 choices - an all you can eat seafood buffet or a sit down restaurant. The prices for both was $29.99 for all you can eat crab legs. By one BIL kept insisting we go to the restaurant because the food was better.
> 
> We had to explain, for $29.99 you go to the sit down restaurant. First they pile on bread and hush puppies to snack on, while you are waiting for your meal. Then they serve you salad. 10-15 minutes later, when your crab legs finally arrive, they bring you one cluster. You devour those, meticulously picking and digging all the meat out. The waiter will come around 5 or 10 minutes later to see if you would like more. Then 5-10 minutes later bring you one more cluster. By that time you have perhaps a half hour invested and have had 2 clusters and had to really work hard to get the meat.
> 
> In the meantime, at the buffet, you load your plate down with as many clusters as you can fit. You go back to your table and dig in. When you snap a leg open, if the meat is not hanging out to grab, you toss that one to the side and dig into your next leg or cluster. Ten minutes later when you have destroyed those five cluster you go back and load up again. You can do that 4 or 5 times, if you want, in that same half hour.
> 
> All you can eat crab leg buffets are a testament to American prosperity. You can literally waste enough crab legs to feed a starving family in some third world nation. But at least you get your money's worth haha.


Oh, I don't waste a single bit... I get every last bit of crab out. Crab is too delicious to waste 

I'm normally not a big eater. Most time I dine out, I'll eat half (or less) of my entree, and take the rest home for later, unless I'm super hungry. But when I go to the brunch buffet with crab legs... watch out! Because I'm going to eat my $40 worth, and then some, no doubt.

My ex-husband, before he was a bar manager, was the exec chef at a seafood restaurant. Whenever I stopped by his restaurant, I would always get my meal for free (obvs), but I would usually be conservative with what I ordered. I wasn't getting crab legs or lobster. But if we would go to Boston to visit his parents, where they had multiple locations, and we were using his corporate card, we would eat there every night, and then I would get the Alaskan King Crab legs EVERY NIGHT. I couldn't stand his parents, but the crab legs made up for it. Sort of.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

FeministInPink said:


> Oh, I don't waste a single bit... I get every last bit of crab out. Crab is too delicious to waste
> 
> I'm normally not a big eater. Most time I dine out, I'll eat half (or less) of my entree, and take the rest home for later, unless I'm super hungry. But when I go to the brunch buffet with crab legs... watch out! Because I'm going to eat my $40 worth, and then some, no doubt.
> 
> My ex-husband, before he was a bar manager, was the exec chef at a seafood restaurant. Whenever I stopped by his restaurant, I would always get my meal for free (obvs), but I would usually be conservative with what I ordered. I wasn't getting crab legs or lobster. But if we would go to Boston to visit his parents, where they had multiple locations, and we were using his corporate card, we would eat there every night, and then I would get the Alaskan King Crab legs EVERY NIGHT. I couldn't stand his parents, but the crab legs made up for it. Sort of.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


When I do a crab leg buffet, I don't mess around digging meat of a shell. If it doesn't fall out or requires more than minimal effort, I just toss it and move onto the next leg or cluster. If I am in some sit down place and I can only have as much as they want me to have, I don't waste. But if I can get more, I do.
Crap, now this does sound like dating LOL


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## Ynot

I went out on two dates with two different women this week.
The first woman was a little older than her pic showed. She was still attractive so I was still interested. We had a nice date. We talked about all sorts of things, including sex (I posted another thread about this). Anyways she seemed to be all on board. We discussed going out on Friday and she said she would text me her number. She never did, instead she would message me on the OLD site we had met on. She messaged me to see if I would be interested in just going out with no sex involved. I politely told her no.
The second woman seemed vaguely familiar. When she gave me her number, it came up on my phone with her name. So apparently we had texted before. Anyways it made me think, but I couldn't place her. Then when we met face to face, I still couldn't place her until she started telling me her story and then it came back to me. We had met this past summer and she had told me the same story. Turns out when I met her this summer, she was just coming off a break up. I mean like a week ago. She also was older than her pic showed her. Anyways, that break up turned out to be a temporary one and now they had broken up again. This time she had also just broken up, regardless still a no-go.
So 0 for 2 this week! Oh well, there are always more to choose from. I guess the moral of the story is, either you can allow someone else to be the gatekeeper for you, whether it be a potential partner or a waiter, or you can choose to be your own gate keeper and decide for yourself. I have decided I am going to be my own gatekeeper and if someone wants to decide for me, too bad for them because I am not playing that game.


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## Sue4473

@Ynot
Did you ever end up going out with the girl that was on a temporary break?


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## Faithful Wife

@Ynot

The woman who asked if you would be interested in going out without sex, did she just mean that she may have implied there would actually be sex on the second date, but she was asking if you would still be willing to go out on the date at all if there wouldn’t be sex?

Or did she mean that she wanted to date on going without sex?


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## Ynot

Sue4473 said:


> @Ynot
> Did you ever end up going out with the girl that was on a temporary break?


No, we met at a local bar for a meet and greet. Neither of us reached out to the other later. It was pretty much just enjoying a drink and conversation with a stranger. That is why I couldn't place where I had known her from. After meeting her last night again, I still couldn't place the face, but as she told her story it came back to me. I really don't think she even remembered meeting me before, probably because from the sounds of it, she was playing speed dating the first time while still pining for the guy she had just broken up with. Anyways, no thank you, next!


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## Sue4473

I agree! Ain’t nobody got time for that lol


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## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> @Ynot
> 
> The woman who asked if you would be interested in going out without sex, did she just mean that she may have implied there would actually be sex on the second date, but she was asking if you would still be willing to go out on the date at all if there wouldn’t be sex?
> 
> Or did she mean that she wanted to date on going without sex?


I don't know. Too me it sounded like she wanted to be in control. I told her that was fine, but I am not interested. Sex is supposed to be fun and spontaneous. We obviously have different expectations.
I don't know how you can have fun and spontaniety if one person claims to not be comfortable. When will they decide, if they ever decide. I am not interested in playing a game of control. Life is too short to invest time, money and effort into meeting someone else's expectations. Besides that, thinking back over our conversation when we were out, I was pretty clear about my needs and wants. She seemed OK with them then. Not so much later. Again, that is fine. I am not angry or upset. I just know that I don't want that.


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## Lila

Not said:


> Update on the dude. 😁
> 
> By the time it was time for me to leave the house to meet with him I knew it would just be a friend thing. I didn’t really want to go even. His comments had become like a bucket of ice water on any interest I had. He is alone so that was legit. He has no family but one sister who lives down south, so very similar to me. The friend zone comment from the day before jived with more comments he made today that made him seem a little desperate. I think he thinks he doesn’t have any options and will take anyone who will have him.


Sorry to hear dude was not what you expected but happy to hear you did not waste your time with someone who was not compatible. It wasn't months down the road to when things could potentially be more complicated. Kudos to you for finding out his intentions quickly. 



> I’ve read the discussion about OLD from today, I’m gonna jump in. One of the tips I was given from my divorce group is to use a site where my profile can be private and I can then do the contacting and not be bombarded by all the wackos. We’ll see how it goes!


Good luck out there. Please let us know how it goes for you.


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## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> I don't know. Too me it sounded like she wanted to be in control. I told her that was fine, but I am not interested. Sex is supposed to be fun and spontaneous. We obviously have different expectations.
> I don't know how you can have fun and spontaniety if one person claims to not be comfortable. When will they decide, if they ever decide. I am not interested in playing a game of control. Life is too short to invest time, money and effort into meeting someone else's expectations. Besides that, thinking back over our conversation when we were out, I was pretty clear about my needs and wants. She seemed OK with them then. Not so much later. Again, that is fine. I am not angry or upset. I just know that I don't want that.


I guess I get it, and you seem sure it wasn’t a match so I suppose the rest is irrelevant.

It’s just confusing to me why people think there should be an instant jump into the sack to “prove” that their date is fun and spontaneous.

Again, I’m not questioning your decision. Or even accusing you of what I’m talking about here.

But to me, if a guy thinks there is some kind of race to the finish line and literally expects me to screw him just to prove something to him (about his ability to bag someone, I assume?) then I already know it has nothing to do with me. I’m just a warm body he expects access to. And his thoughts and feelings about sex are obviously only about himself, not me or what I want.

I’m the more sexual person in every relationship I have. I’m usually also the more explorative one, the more kinky one, the one who is open to more things and will introduce new things. And I haven’t been with a bunch of inexperienced men. I’m just extremely sexual, usually more so than any man I date. I know that’s hard to believe, but all of the men I’ve had sex with have said this to me as well. While also admitting that they are no saint or virgin, I’m still more sexual than they are. 

Not every man can please me in bed. I know this from experience, and so in order to not have crappy sexual experiences, I make sure I know a bit about the person before I have sex with them. That includes talking about things we like, things we have in mind for each other’s bodies, limits and boundaries. These talks are no guarantee, they are part of the vetting process. There is nothing in my words that sound like a guarantee, and I make it clear that a few tests have to happen first, such as the make out test. 

On a second or third date I like to get to the make out test. If he can’t even pass that, there are no more dates.

If he does pass the make out test and I like him enough, sex usually occurs shortly after (if we have agreed to be exclusive, of course.)

Once sex actually occurs (assuming its good, but it always is if they pass the make out test), then I’m going to want sex at every opportunity. Every day or more, if we can manage it. If I can only see him a few times a week, then I will want it several times each time we see each other.

Men I have jived well with don’t push me. They don’t need me to prove anything to them. They are just enjoying getting to know me and deciding for themselves if they like me enough to continue.

If a guy literally doesn’t even know me but wants or expects sex from me, I know this means he has no discernment in having sex and that’s a red flag. There’s that old saying don’t stick your **** in crazy. If you stick your **** in someone on the first date, it means you don’t care if she’s crazy. I don’t want to have sex with someone like that. It means the sex was important to them but the person wasn’t.


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## Lila

Through a very strange set of circumstances, my match profile ended up visible again almost a week after I made it invisible. I didn't realize what had happened because none of my email notifications were coming through. I figured out something was off when I logged on a week ago Sunday to delete my pics and make sure the auto renewal was turned off. There were a bunch of messages in my "other" (non match) inbox even though they were initiated by guys who met my match criteria. It was a very weird glitch. Suffice it to say, I complained to Match and they refunded my money while letting me keep the account active for the remainder of my term period (3 months). 

I figured I'd make the best of the situation and changed my entire profile. Rewrote it to say looking for friends and if something develops so be it. I asked the guys who messaged me to reread my profile and let me know their interest. None responded so I didn't give it another thought. 

I was getting 100s of views but no messages until Thursday. I have no idea what the hell happened but my inbox blew up. I ended up on three first dates this week:. 1 coffee with a guy who was attractive but soooo not compatible, 1 lunch date with a mid 30s guy (we've got plans today for a 2nd date), and amazing date last night that went from "just a quick drink" because I had plans with friends to "join me and my friends". I really like #3. 

I also had lunch earlier in the week and a went out to the movies with two guys who I met in January but have transitioned into friends. They've been single and at the OLD game for a long time. They ground me when the **** gets to be too much. It's nice to have those kinds of friends.


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Through a very strange set of circumstances, my match profile ended up visible again almost a week after I made it invisible. I didn't realize what had happened because none of my email notifications were coming through. I figured out something was off when I logged on a week ago Sunday to delete my pics and make sure the auto renewal was turned off. There were a bunch of messages in my "other" (non match) inbox even though they were initiated by guys who met my match criteria. It was a very weird glitch. Suffice it to say, I complained to Match and they refunded my money while letting me keep the account active for the remainder of my term period (3 months).
> 
> I figured I'd make the best of the situation and changed my entire profile. Rewrote it to say looking for friends and if something develops so be it. I asked the guys who messaged me to reread my profile and let me know their interest. None responded so I didn't give it another thought.
> 
> I was getting 100s of views but no messages until Thursday. I have no idea what the hell happened but my inbox blew up. I ended up on three first dates this week:. 1 coffee with a guy who was attractive but soooo not compatible, 1 lunch date with a mid 30s guy (we've got plans today for a 2nd date), and amazing date last night that went from "just a quick drink" because I had plans with friends to "join me and my friends". I really like #3.
> 
> I also had lunch earlier in the week and a went out to the movies with two guys who I met in January but have transitioned into friends. They've been single and at the OLD game for a long time. They ground me when the **** gets to be too much. It's nice to have those kinds of friends.


Right on, sister! I love it!

Amy kisses on any of these dates? Need the kiss report!

I have a second date tonight. First date was very nice. He seems to be a reformed bad boy. But with many years of being reformed. These are my faves because they get it, they don’t need to pressure for sex. They know sex is part of an adult relationship and it will happen if we decide we like each other enough. They don’t fear that I will be asexual or whatever. They know by our conversation that I’m a sexual being and that I’m looking for a sexual relationship (and more but the sex part is very important to me).

This guy was an athlete in college and that’s another plus for me. He has retained his build and looks great. 

He is divorced and has custody of his kids who are teens. We didn’t talk a lot about that but it doesn’t worry me since they are not too young.

He is looking for “the one”. A relationship that will be his last one. He even still wants to be married again but that’s not in the cards for me. I told him though that if I was ready to enter a completely committed relationship I would have a wedding ceremony if it was important to my partner but there’s no way I’m getting legally married again.

He wasn’t saying I’m the one, we were just discussing what we are looking for.

We had a quick kiss at the end of the date. There were no fireworks but it was nice. I did not feel any electric chemistry but I did feel attracted and interested in him and felt there might be chemistry, enough to warrant a second date.

If there’s not any chemistry after tonight, there won’t be any more dates.

I have been talking to another guy and probably have a date with him this week. Unless my date tonight goes well, if it does I’ll tell the other guy that I’m going to give tonight guy a chance and see how things go. If it doesn’t go well, then hopefully date with other guy will go well this week.

So no exciting news yet! But maybe after tonight I’ll have a little sparkle. :laugh:


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I guess I get it, and you seem sure it wasn’t a match so I suppose the rest is irrelevant.
> 
> It’s just confusing to me why people think there should be an instant jump into the sack to “prove” that their date is fun and spontaneous.
> 
> Again, I’m not questioning your decision. Or even accusing you of what I’m talking about here.


I appreciate that. I am not looking for a one and done. In this case she seemed to be pushing the accelerator that night, then the next morning slamming on the brakes. Hot and cold, push and pull. Actually to me the whole thing sounded like a **** test. I have played those games before and I am not into playing them anymore.

I am not a rapist and I am not going to pressure anyone into doing anything they don't want to do. So whatever your timetable is, it OK with me, just be consistent so I know whether I am or am not interested. In this case there was no consistency and as I said it seemed more like a **** test than anything else. "I know what you said you wanted, but let's see if you will give into me here!" Then its do this and do that, if I am satisfied then maybe". No, no thanks! I played that game with my ex. Not going there again.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> I appreciate that. I am not looking for a one and done. In this case she seemed to be pushing the accelerator that night, then the next morning slamming on the brakes. Hot and cold, push and pull. Actually to me the whole thing sounded like a **** test. I have played those games before and I am not into playing them anymore.
> 
> I am not a rapist and I am not going to pressure anyone into doing anything they don't want to do. So whatever your timetable is, it OK with me, just be consistent so I know whether I am or am not interested. In this case there was no consistency and as I said it seemed more like a **** test than anything else. "I know what you said you wanted, but let's see if you will give into me here!" Then its do this and do that, if I am satisfied then maybe". No, no thanks! I played that game with my ex. Not going there again.


You should always go with your gut and if it seemed like a control maneuver, then you have to respond as if it was.

But from what you are describing, to me it just sounds like you too quickly projected upon her that she must be like your ex wife. It sounds like she may have gotten ahead of herself on the first date because she was attracted and interested, but in the morning she realized she still wants to know more about you before committing to having sex with you.

What exactly do you think she would have gotten out of “seeing if you will give in to me here”? Seems to me that if you wanted to see her again, just stating that she wasn’t going to have sex with you on the second date isn’t “getting” anything from you. 

Again, your gut said it was control so you went with that. I’m just honestly confused by what some men see as “control” and what they think a woman would be getting out of it. We are talking about a date, not a marriage. There is no “control” over another person in dating, there are no ties to each other that make control possible. Unless you simply feel that a woman not allowing you to have sex with her on a second date is “control”. That’s why I’m assuming it was projection about your ex wife.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> You should always go with your gut and if it seemed like a control maneuver, then you have to respond as if it was.
> 
> But from what you are describing, to me it just sounds like you too quickly projected upon her that she must be like your ex wife. It sounds like she may have gotten ahead of herself on the first date because she was attracted and interested, but in the morning she realized she still wants to know more about you before committing to having sex with you.
> 
> What exactly do you think she would have gotten out of “seeing if you will give in to me here”? Seems to me that if you wanted to see her again, just stating that she wasn’t going to have sex with you on the second date isn’t “getting” anything from you.
> 
> Again, your gut said it was control so you went with that. I’m just honestly confused by what some men see as “control” and what they think a woman would be getting out of it. We are talking about a date, not a marriage. There is no “control” over another person in dating, there are no ties to each other that make control possible. Unless you simply feel that a woman not allowing you to have sex with her on a second date is “control”. That’s why I’m assuming it was projection about your ex wife.


I did not see it as projecting anything. I looked at it as applying a lesson. Been there done that, not doing it again.
I enjoy being single and in control of who I see what I do with them. I do not enjoy having terms dictated to me and if someone wishes to, they are not someone I want to be around. In this case, the whole thing felt like a power struggle, where she was going to dictate terms and I needed to agree to them. After a first date, this type of response from someone, especially after hearing my expectations as well as hearing her own experiences and responding to her questions, did not make me comfortable.
As to what one could gain. You answered the question yourself - control, or at least the upper hand. I have no desire to become an orbiter, attempting to guess whatever (at that moment) would make her happy in hopes that she might eventually allow me to have sex with her. I am through with the entitled princess mentality. Either it is fun and spontaneous or I am out. My life. my choice. No projections, just application of a lesson learned. Simple as that.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I’m just honestly confused by what some men see as “control” and what they think a woman would be getting out of it. We are talking about a date, not a marriage. There is no “control” over another person in dating, there are no ties to each other that make control possible. Unless you simply feel that a woman not allowing you to have sex with her on a second date is “control”. That’s why I’m assuming it was projection about your ex wife.


This warranted a separate response. Yes, WE are just talking about dating. However, I got the impression that SHE was talking about a relationship (which could include marriage eventually). So by her setting the stage to get what she wanted. She was establishing what the relationship would be (non-sexual) and how it would develop (at her choice). 
I realize that we all do this to a degree. In my mind you agree to these things if they are agreeable to you. If they are not you simply move one. But when you ask another to comply with your own, you are not accepting who they already are. You are attempting to change them.
Some people agree to this, whether it succumbing to pressure to have sex too early for them to be comfortable or in accepting not having sex until some unknown future point. That, to me, is playing the game. As I said, I am not into that game.
Had we met and she had said she wanted to wait. I probably would have just moved on regardless. Sex is too important to me. But she didn't, so to me, the expectation was that she didn't want to wait either. Perhaps she did move to fast to early. She did grab my crotch while we were kissing good night. But that is on her, not me. So, if she had been uncomfortable with the idea, but still got ahead of herself. It says way more about her, than it does about me.


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## Faithful Wife

That whole post sounded like projection. 

But it still makes no difference. In that case, I think you did well to spin off, because she would have had to work through all your stuff just to make you feel safe, and there’s no reason she should have to do that. Your gut feeling was actually helpful for her.

Hopefully you’ll find more women who don’t trigger you to date. I guess that would be the ones who don’t need any autonomy of their own bodies on a second date.


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## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> That whole post sounded like projection.
> 
> But it still makes no difference. In that case, I think you did well to spin off, because she would have had to work through all your stuff just to make you feel safe, and there’s no reason she should have to do that. Your gut feeling was actually helpful for her.
> 
> Hopefully you’ll find more women who don’t trigger you to date. I guess that would be the ones who don’t need any autonomy of their own bodies on a second date.


I am still not getting where I am projecting. Unless you want to imagine that the outcome of every lesson is projection. As I said, I was honest and open, she was agreeable. Until she wasn't. That isn't projection, that was learning not to get sucked into a situation I have no interest in being in.
As to her autonomy, I have NEVER suggested she did not have that. How anyone chooses to exercise their personal sovereignty is up to them. But that doesn't mean I have to live with it or agree to live with that choice. 
In another thread the idea of acceptance was being discussed. It seems to me that you are of the mind that I need to live with her choice and forget my own. Acceptance does not mean that. Me deciding to walk away, is accepting her autonomy. She is free to wait, I am free to keep looking. Had I given into her and complied, that is me rejecting my own autonomy. Had I gone out and taken what I wanted, that would be rejecting hers. I haven't rejected anything. I have accepted her choice and decided to keep looking.
Otherwise, you are very confused on this matter of acceptance, autonomy.
PS upon rereading your post it appears that you may labor under a false sense of entitlement. How she would have needed to labor to overcome my "issues" is laughable. We weren't compatible. Many times no two people are. How is this my issue?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> This warranted a separate response. Yes, WE are just talking about dating. However, I got the impression that SHE was talking about a relationship (which could include marriage eventually). So by her setting the stage to get what she wanted. She was establishing what the relationship would be (non-sexual) and how it would develop (at her choice).
> I realize that we all do this to a degree. In my mind you agree to these things if they are agreeable to you. If they are not you simply move one. But when you ask another to comply with your own, you are not accepting who they already are. You are attempting to change them.
> Some people agree to this, whether it succumbing to pressure to have sex too early for them to be comfortable or in accepting not having sex until some unknown future point. That, to me, is playing the game. As I said, I am not into that game.
> Had we met and she had said she wanted to wait. I probably would have just moved on regardless. Sex is too important to me. But she didn't, so to me, the expectation was that she didn't want to wait either. Perhaps she did move to fast to early. She did grab my crotch while we were kissing good night. But that is on her, not me. So, if she had been uncomfortable with the idea, but still got ahead of herself. It says way more about her, than it does about me.


If you think that her grabbing your crotch but not wanting to commit to sex on a second date says anything about her other than that she was interested in you but wasn’t going to commit to sex on the second date, then I am afraid I don’t see it. You are making all kinds of assumptions about her reasons, and they seem to be the same reasons you are bitter about your ex wife. Thus, projection.

I recently had a similar experience. Had a good date on a Thursday, and had another one lined up for Monday. Over the weekend we were texting and being flirty. I was telling him that I couldn’t wait to get my hands on his muscles and wanted to give him a massage. He said come over, I need a massage. I said I would but then something came up at the last minute and I couldn’t go. He was disappointed but said no big deal and we will see each other Monday. The date we had planned was karaoke.

Monday morning I texted him with “good morning” and he responded immediately with “hey there”. Then I said “can’t wait for karaoke tonight” and I never heard anything else from him, and nothing since.

I can only assume he decided that my mentioning karaoke meant he didn’t want to see me again unless it was at his place. Of course, I was hoping to go back to his place after karaoke and get my hands on those muscles as I had been dreaming of that since we talked about it. (He’s built like an NBA player, yowza!). And to get past the make out test to see if that went well enough to proceed. If it did, I definitely would have had sex with him on the next date. 

But I guess since I didn’t go **** him over the weekend or suggest sex instead of karaoke, he decided it wasn’t worth his time.

Of course, I’m grateful now. Because I know a guy like that doesn’t care about the person, he just cares about the sex. Ew.

Even in a relationship that is primarily sexual, I need to give a rats ass about this person. I need to respect them and be fond of them. I can’t be fond of someone who just wants “the sex” and doesn’t realize I am a human being. I treat others how I want to be treated, which means I don’t use them for sex if I don’t give a crap about them as a person. Even men who would be ok with it if I used them for sex, I still would not because unattached sex is boring and not fulfilling. A warm body only. I respect myself and others much more than that.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> I am still not getting where I am projecting. Unless you want to imagine that the outcome of every lesson is projection. As I said, I was honest and open, she was agreeable. Until she wasn't. That isn't projection, that was learning not to get sucked into a situation I have no interest in being in.
> As to her autonomy, I have NEVER suggested she did not have that. How anyone chooses to exercise their personal sovereignty is up to them. But that doesn't mean I have to live with it or agree to live with that choice.
> In another thread the idea of acceptance was being discussed. It seems to me that you are of the mind that I need to live with her choice and forget my own. Acceptance does not mean that. Me deciding to walk away, is accepting her autonomy. She is free to wait, I am free to keep looking. Had I given into her and complied, that is me rejecting my own autonomy. Had I gone out and taken what I wanted, that would be rejecting hers. I haven't rejected anything. I have accepted her choice and decided to keep looking.
> Otherwise, you are very confused on this matter of acceptance, autonomy.
> PS upon rereading your post it appears that you may labor under a false sense of entitlement. How she would have needed to labor to overcome my "issues" is laughable. We weren't compatible. Many times no two people are. How is this my issue?


You could be totally right and she has control issues. 

If a woman isn’t going commit to having sex on a second date is considered control, then call me controlling.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> If you think that her grabbing your crotch but not wanting to commit to sex on a second date says anything about her other than that she was interested in you but wasn’t going to commit to sex on the second date, then I am afraid I don’t see it. You are making all kinds of assumptions about her reasons, and they seem to be the same reasons you are bitter about your ex wife. Thus, projection.
> 
> I recently had a similar experience. Had a good date on a Thursday, and had another one lined up for Monday. Over the weekend we were texting and being flirty. I was telling him that I couldn’t wait to get my hands on his muscles and wanted to give him a massage. He said come over, I need a massage. I said I would but then something came up at the last minute and I couldn’t go. He was disappointed but said no big deal and we will see each other Monday. The date we had planned was karaoke.
> 
> Monday morning I texted him with “good morning” and he responded immediately with “hey there”. Then I said “can’t wait for karaoke tonight” and I never heard anything else from him, and nothing since.
> 
> I can only assume he decided that my mentioning karaoke meant he didn’t want to see me again unless it was at his place. Of course, I was hoping to go back to his place after karaoke and get my hands on those muscles as I had been dreaming of that since we talked about it. (He’s built like an NBA player, yowza!). And to get past the make out test to see if that went well enough to proceed. If it did, I definitely would have had sex with him on the next date.
> 
> But I guess since I didn’t go **** him over the weekend or suggest sex instead of karaoke, he decided it wasn’t worth his time.
> 
> Of course, I’m grateful now. Because I know a guy like that doesn’t care about the person, he just cares about the sex. Ew.
> 
> Even in a relationship that is primarily sexual, I need to give a rats ass about this person. I need to respect them and be fond of them. I can’t be fond of someone who just wants “the sex” and doesn’t realize I am a human being. I treat others how I want to be treated, which means I don’t use them for sex if I don’t give a crap about them as a person. Even men who would be ok with it if I used them for sex, I still would not because unattached sex is boring and not fulfilling. A warm body only. I respect myself and others much more than that.



Again with the entitlement mentality. You keep imaging that she is entitled to have her ask, do, say whatever and I am obligated to comply. We would not have been discussing a second date had she NOT seemed in agreement to what I had openly and honestly already discussed with her.
So her changing the terms post facto, does NOT obligate me to comply. In anyway. She is not entitled to my compliance. not am I obligated to give it.
It is simply a matter of true acceptance of reality, rather than just going along to get along. My ex played those games. I have gone out with other women who have played those games. My refusal to play along is not projection, it is applying a lesson learned.
Just as you have learned lessons and apply them to your own situations, so have I. The one difference seems to be that I do not feel entitled to someone else's compliance, whereas you feel I am obliged to comply with another's. 
She changed her mind, I accepted that. I really do not understand how that is projection unless one has the POV that she is entitled and I am simply to comply.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> You could be totally right and she has control issues.
> 
> If a woman isn’t going commit to having sex on a second date is considered control, then call me controlling.


WTH are you talking about? It isn't about her committing, it is about her changing things post facto. Expecting me to accept her fickleness is where the control issue comes into play. Not her commitment or lack of commitment. Honestly, now I think you are just being obtuse. I never took you for someone willing to argue for the sake of argument. So I can only assume you are doing so from some sense of entitlement, that she is free to change her mind and I am obliged to agree and if I don't then I have issues. Good God woman think what you are saying.


----------



## Sue4473

@Ynot- I haven’t followed a lot of the posts on here, but was curious... what are your dating or relationship goals?
Are you looking for a girlfriend, companion, FWB etc?


----------



## Ynot

Sue4473 said:


> @Ynot- I haven’t followed a lot of the posts on here, but was curious... what are your dating or relationship goals?
> Are you looking for a girlfriend, companion, FWB etc?


Basically I am looking for FWB or short term relationships. While ultimately it would be nice to have either grow into a LTR, I realize that every LTR starts someplace. But if it does it has to be a natural development and not forced as many people try to do. I have had several of each and we have parted company as friends. 
As far as FWBs or STRs, I enjoy hanging out and doing things we both enjoy. But I also enjoy my freedom and independence. I have met many women who feel the same. So I am attracted to them. There have been times where either I or they may decide they want it be more. So far either myself or they have not wanted it and we have mutually agreed to move on. I like to be around mature adults, not starry eyed star crossed immature dreamers who still harbor the Disney fantasy of the way life should be.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> WTH are you talking about? It isn't about her committing, it is about her changing things post facto. Expecting me to accept her fickleness is where the control issue comes into play. Not her commitment or lack of commitment. Honestly, now I think you are just being obtuse. I never took you for someone willing to argue for the sake of argument. So I can only assume you are doing so from some sense of entitlement, that she is free to change her mind and I am obliged to agree and if I don't then I have issues. Good God woman think what you are saying.


So she said on date 1 that she was willing to have sex on date 2. In the morning, she felt differently and asked if you would be willing to go on the date if there would be no sex. You said no thank you.

If you consider her first date agreement to be set in stone, and that she cannot change her mind without seeming “fickle”, then you did her a favor by answering honestly.

The day someone calls me fickle because I won’t have sex with them is the last day I’ll ever speak to them.

Regardless of what you think, there are reasons other than game playing or control that make someone change their mind about something. But if you can’t see it any other way than control or “fickle” then yes, don’t waste any more of each other’s time.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> Again with the entitlement mentality. You keep imaging that she is entitled to have her ask, do, say whatever and I am obligated to comply. We would not have been discussing a second date had she NOT seemed in agreement to what I had openly and honestly already discussed with her.
> So her changing the terms post facto, does NOT obligate me to comply. In anyway. She is not entitled to my compliance. not am I obligated to give it.
> It is simply a matter of true acceptance of reality, rather than just going along to get along. My ex played those games. I have gone out with other women who have played those games. My refusal to play along is not projection, it is applying a lesson learned.
> Just as you have learned lessons and apply them to your own situations, so have I. The one difference seems to be that I do not feel entitled to someone else's compliance, whereas you feel I am obliged to comply with another's.
> She changed her mind, I accepted that. I really do not understand how that is projection unless one has the POV that she is entitled and I am simply to comply.


I don’t know what entitlement you are talking about. Entitlement to what? Is she or is she not entitled to not commit to sex on a second date? Is this the entitlement you speak of? 

Um yes, every person is entitled to not have sex on a date and no person is entitled to sex, even if on the first date it was discussed.

You are the one who sounds like you felt entitled to sex on a second date and without it you weren’t interested in seeing her. That’s your choice and right to say no you weren’t interested, but it’s clear you weren’t interested because you did feel entitled.

I don’t know what you think she thought she was entitled to, other than autonomy over her own body, and why you would have a problem with that is beyond me.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I don’t know what entitlement you are talking about. Entitlement to what? Is she or is she not entitled to not commit to sex on a second date? Is this the entitlement you speak of?
> 
> Um yes, every person is entitled to not have sex on a date and no person is entitled to sex, even if on the first date it was discussed.
> 
> You are the one who sounds like you felt entitled to sex on a second date and without it you weren’t interested in seeing her. That’s your choice and right to say no you weren’t interested, but it’s clear you weren’t interested because you did feel entitled.
> 
> I don’t know what you think she thought she was entitled to, other than autonomy over her own body, and why you would have a problem with that is beyond me.


Um, the sense of entitlement is YOURS not hers. And what you seem to imagine is that I am not allowed to change my mind as well. But in your mind that makes me entitled? For goodness sakes girl, try to think like a rational person and stop making your own projections here.
First off I have already said she is free to change her mind. I have also said that I do not have agree to go along, which is what you keep going on about that I should. Hence YOUR sense of entitlement
We had discussed sex OPENLY and HONESTLY, she had agreed. Which was why we were talking about a second date. Then she changed her mind, as she is allowed and has every right to do. I did not agree to her new terms so I declined to move forward which is I am allowed to do and also have every right to do.
I am not upset that she changed her mind, I merely commented that I withdrew my agreement to continuing to see her on the basis that she changed the terms and I decided to move on. That does not mean that I have issues, nor that I feel entitled nor anything else that YOU are projecting on me. It merely means that based on these new conditions that I am no longer interested. It is what healthy individuals do. You of all people should know that. So stop with the baseless accusations based on your own projections.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ynot said:


> Um, the sense of entitlement is YOURS not hers. And what you seem to imagine is that I am not allowed to change my mind as well. But in your mind that makes me entitled? For goodness sakes girl, try to think like a rational person and stop making your own projections here.
> First off I have already said she is free to change her mind. I have also said that I do not have agree to go along, which is what you keep going on about that I should. Hence YOUR sense of entitlement
> We had discussed sex OPENLY and HONESTLY, she had agreed. Which was why we were talking about a second date. Then she changed her mind, as she is allowed and has every right to do. I did not agree to her new terms so I declined to move forward which is I am allowed to do and also have every right to do.
> I am not upset that she changed her mind, I merely commented that I withdrew my agreement to continuing to see her on the basis that she changed the terms and had I decided to move on. That does not mean that I have issues, nor that I feel entitled nor anything else that YOU are projecting on me. It merely means that based on these new conditions that I am no longer interested. It is what healthy individuals do. You of all people should know that. So stop with the baseless accusations based on your own projections.


“Try to think like a rational person”.

It’s all good to disagree, but I have not insulted your intelligence or your motives in discussing this with me. Since you can’t be civil or not insult me, I’ll step out.

I have no clue still what you think I am entitled to or what I think I am entitled to. I was just responding to your post here. I’m entitled to an opinion, that’s all, and I have said nothing otherwise about being entitled to anything.


----------



## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> So she said on date 1 that she was willing to have sex on date 2. In the morning, she felt differently and asked if you would be willing to go on the date if there would be no sex. You said no thank you.
> 
> If you consider her first date agreement to be set in stone, and that she cannot change her mind without seeming “fickle”, then you did her a favor by answering honestly.
> 
> The day someone calls me fickle because I won’t have sex with them is the last day I’ll ever speak to them.
> 
> Regardless of what you think, there are reasons other than game playing or control that make someone change their mind about something. But if you can’t see it any other way than control or “fickle” then yes, don’t waste any more of each other’s time.


I guess since you weren't there for the five hour long date and therefore have no clue as to everything that was discussed, how it was discussed and the context of the discussion, you will just have to rely on your own projections and sense of entitlement. No one ever said she was fickle solely because she changed her mind. That conclusion was drawn from having spent five hours on a date with her as well as all of the other phone calls, texts and messages that we sent back and forth to each other. Otherwise, that is what I have already said - that we won't be wasting each other's time.
The issue I have with any of this discussion is your continued baseless accusations against me due to your own imagination. The really funny thing is that it is coming from you, who, in following your posts, have probably walked away from more guys for far less things that this, but who is now claiming some sort of moral high ground for doing something that you have done countless times.


----------



## Sue4473

@Ynot- thanks for replying. I totally get that, and totally respect it. 😊


----------



## Ynot

Sue4473 said:


> @Ynot- thanks for replying. I totally get that, and totally respect it. 😊


Thank you. I just wish more people were honest and not into playing the mating game.


----------



## john117

Ynot said:


> When I do a crab leg buffet, I don't mess around digging meat of a shell. If it doesn't fall out or requires more than minimal effort, I just toss it and move onto the next leg or cluster. If I am in some sit down place and I can only have as much as they want me to have, I don't waste. But if I can get more, I do.
> 
> Crap, now this does sound like dating LOL


We did a good number of cruises from 2000 to 2012 and watching the crab legs go from turkey leg size to shoestring fries size was heartbreaking


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Right on, sister! I love it!
> 
> Any kisses on any of these dates? Need the kiss report!


Of course. 😉😁. 

Both younger dude and guy #3 are phenomenal kissers but where one made me feel ultra sexy, the other made me feel beautiful. 

#3 was smooth; knew exactly how to initiate the kiss. There was this silent communication that happened between the two of us. I smiled when he looked at me with his "I want to eat you up" look. It was all he needed to pull me in for the kiss. He's 6'2 so I was literally enveloped in his arms. His kiss was soft but with purpose. Don't know if that makes sense. I am 100% sure this guy is a passionate lover. 

Younger dude's kiss was very sweet. He gave me his best cocky smirk and asked if I was going to kiss him. I rolled my eyes and pulled him down for the kiss (he's 6'0). He's a teaser and a slow gentle kisser (don't know how else to describe it); he's got all of the time in the world, no rush. He's also got the softest lips. Yummy! I can just tell he's a sensual lover. 



> I have a second date tonight. First date was very nice. He seems to be a reformed bad boy. But with many years of being reformed. These are my faves because they get it, they don’t need to pressure for sex. They know sex is part of an adult relationship and it will happen if we decide we like each other enough. They don’t fear that I will be asexual or whatever. They know by our conversation that I’m a sexual being and that I’m looking for a sexual relationship (and more but the sex part is very important to me).
> 
> This guy was an athlete in college and that’s another plus for me. He has retained his build and looks great.
> 
> He is divorced and has custody of his kids who are teens. We didn’t talk a lot about that but it doesn’t worry me since they are not too young.
> 
> He is looking for “the one”. A relationship that will be his last one. He even still wants to be married again but that’s not in the cards for me. I told him though that if I was ready to enter a completely committed relationship I would have a wedding ceremony if it was important to my partner but there’s no way I’m getting legally married again.
> 
> He wasn’t saying I’m the one, we were just discussing what we are looking for.
> 
> We had a quick kiss at the end of the date. There were no fireworks but it was nice. I did not feel any electric chemistry but I did feel attracted and interested in him and felt there might be chemistry, enough to warrant a second date.
> 
> If there’s not any chemistry after tonight, there won’t be any more dates.
> 
> I have been talking to another guy and probably have a date with him this week. Unless my date tonight goes well, if it does I’ll tell the other guy that I’m going to give tonight guy a chance and see how things go. If it doesn’t go well, then hopefully date with other guy will go well this week.
> 
> So no exciting news yet! But maybe after tonight I’ll have a little sparkle. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>


Good luck. This one sounds like a potential keeper especially as a reformed bad boy and former athlete. I'm actually talking to someone like that. He's a bit intimidating to me (I'm as goodie too sure as they come).

Let us know how that date goes for you. I want to hear about it.


----------



## Ynot

Whatever you do, don't either of you decide it isn't working out. Oh, wait, you are women, don't sweat it. Apparently it is up to the guy to just comply. Otherwise they have issues, that you have to deal with LMAO!


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Whatever you do, don't either of you decide it isn't working out. Oh, wait, you are women, don't sweat it. Apparently it is up to the guy to just comply. Otherwise they have issues, that you have to deal with LMAO!


Not sure if this was directed at me but for the record, I have had plenty of guys tell me either by action (ghosting) or words that I wasn't going to work out. The ones that let me know, I thanked for their honesty and wished them well. 

Some may disagree, but I make sure to communicate expectations almost immediately before even meeting in person. I don't waste my time, as such i weed out the guys looking for casual sex. At this point in my life, I'm not necessarily looking for a long term or sexual relationship but if a friendship flourishes into one, great. The guys I've gone out with recently know this. Regardless of whether we've kissed, made out, fondled each other, etc.... I'm not going to have sex until I feel like it. If they try to give me pushback, then yes, they have issues.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> Not sure if this was directed at me but for the record, I have had plenty of guys tell me either by action (ghosting) or words that I wasn't going to work out. The ones that let me know, I thanked for their honesty and wished them well.
> 
> Some may disagree, but I make sure to communicate expectations almost immediately before even meeting in person. I don't waste my time, as such i weed out the guys looking for casual sex. At this point in my life, I'm not necessarily looking for a long term or sexual relationship but if a friendship flourishes into one, great. The guys I've gone out with recently know this. Regardless of whether we've kissed, made out, fondled each other, etc.... I'm not going to have sex until I feel like it. If they try to give me pushback, then yes, they have issues.


No, not aimed at you. Just a general statement. But I basically said the exact same thing as you did and was told that I was projecting and had issues. Otherwise I agree with you. Each of us is free to choose for ourselves how to live our lives and what to accept. The only thing we owe one another is honesty in the form of respecting each other's decisions. Some people apparently feel otherwise.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Good luck. This one sounds like a potential keeper especially as a reformed bad boy and former athlete. I'm actually talking to someone like that. He's a bit intimidating to me (I'm as goodie too sure as they come).
> 
> Let us know how that date goes for you. I want to hear about it.


Date #2 was very nice. :smile2:

We are digging each other, the chemistry is bubbling up, we will definitely see each other again! We have the make out test date next. Ha ha! Can't wait.


----------



## minimalME

Faithful Wife said:


> ... why you would have a problem with that is beyond me.


This male attitude of entitlement to sex is exactly why I stopped dating. 

Over the past two years, both overt and covert communication has consistently been, 'You will have sex with me. You will have it on my timeline. Or I have no interest in knowing you.'

It's the tactic of bullies, and it's very, very manipulative - right alongside accusing women of playing games and perpetuating this nonsensical notion that promiscuous behavior is some sort of positive, evolutionary progress. 

Way too many middle aged, single/divorced men have now returned to an adolescent, immature state of looking for 'hot and fun'. That's become the priority, and women have encouraged it. 

The only way it will change, is for women to value and require delayed gratification. And it is on the shoulders of women to reverse this dynamic. Men won't. Why would they?


----------



## Faithful Wife

minimalME said:


> This male attitude of entitlement to sex is exactly why I stopped dating.
> 
> Over the past two years, both overt and covert communication has consistently been, 'You will have sex with me. You will have it on my timeline. Or I have no interest in knowing you.'
> 
> It's the tactic of bullies, and it's very, very manipulative - right alongside accusing women of playing games and perpetuating this nonsensical notion that promiscuous behavior is some sort of positive, evolutionary progress.
> 
> Way too many middle aged, single/divorced men have now returned to an adolescent, immature state of looking for 'hot and fun'. That's become the priority, and women have encouraged it.
> 
> The only way it will change, is for women to value and require delayed gratification. And it is on the shoulders of women to reverse this dynamic. *Men won't. Why would they?*


Some men are not that way, thankfully! In fact, there is a pretty stark line between those who are and those who aren't, so it ends up being a really easy way for me to see who is who.

If they are still so immature that they think they are supposed to "push" for sex, they aren't for me.

If they are confident and actually want to know me before they want to have sex with me, then I know there's a chance. Thankfully, there are actually a lot of men like this. As I said, these are always the ones who I end up in relationships with. They are confident and easy breezy about sex. They know it is just a normal natural thing, not a "prize" that men coerce out of women.

But I can see why enough bad experiences with the pushy types would make you want to stop dating, that's for sure.

My 2 date guy, he didn't even touch me on our first date. He walked me to the car and had a quick kiss on the lips.

Second date, he still did not touch me at all. But we did talk about sex, and talked about the progression of things that would have to occur before we had sex, if we did end up going there. One of those things is declaring exclusivity. But even before that, I need a good make out with him for a test drive. So we talked about where and when the make out date would be.

He walked me to the car, he put his hands on my waist, he pulled me in for a kiss. Then a couple more kisses. He slid his hands down my back a little, and asked permission to put his hands on my ass. Which I said yes to, and he squeezed it like a big muffin. Then I reached around and grabbed his too! 

Then we said we can't wait for the next date, and he texted me later with all kinds of "like you", "had a great time", "can't wait to see you again", etc. type messages.

At no time did he try to convince me to go to his place, go sit in his car, or go anywhere that we may have had more privacy for more touching or kissing. Because he was perfectly happy with what we were doing and there was no need to try to get "more" when you've already got what you wanted for that evening...he wanted my time, my presence, and some kisses, and that was it.

Of course many men will say "oh sure!" if you offer them sex immediately. But there are some who will not. Because they actually do want to know you at least a little bit before jumping in the sack.

I'm grateful for the ones like this.


----------



## Ynot

Ah, I knew it was only a matter of time before the bitter women showed up to whine about men who feel entitled to sex. For those of you unable to understand. I do not feel entitled to sex. I do not feel entitled to anything other than another's honesty. In my case the topic of sex was discussed honestly and openly. The woman in this case was in agreement and plans were made to move forward based on this agreement. Then she changed her mind (as is her right), which presented me with my own choice. Rather than pressuring her, as some of you seem to imagine. I politely and honestly told her I was not interested in moving forward then. THAT is my right as a human being, just as it was her right as a human being to change her mind. None of that involves entitlement (aside from those who imagine that a man must simply comply with the woman and has no choice of his own), none of it involves pressure, none of it involves projection. It is something that each and every human being does on a daily basis. So get over your bitterness and your own sense of entitlement and stop alluding to pressuring, because there was none.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Ynot said:


> Ah, I knew it was only a matter of time before the bitter women showed up to whine about men who feel entitled to sex. For those of you unable to understand. I do not feel entitled to sex. *I do not feel entitled to anything other than another's honesty. In my case the topic of sex was discussed honestly and openly. The woman in this case was in agreement and plans were made to move forward based on this agreement. Then she changed her mind (as is her right), which presented me with my own choice. Rather than pressuring her, as some of you seem to imagine. I politely and honestly told her I was not interested in moving forward then. *THAT is my right as a human being, just as it was her right as a human being to change her mind. None of that involves entitlement (aside from those who imagine that a man must simply comply with the woman and has no choice of his own), none of it involves pressure, none of it involves projection. It is something that each and every human being does on a daily basis. So get over your bitterness and your own sense of entitlement and stop alluding to pressuring, because there was none.


Personally I found it weird that sex was discussed and planned on for the second date, lol! But thats probably just me. I dont think you feel entitled, Y. If she had told you that she had second thoughts about the sex because, lets say, that isnt something she normally does that quick, but that she was still very interested and wanted to go on the date to see how things progressed between you... would you have gone ahead with the date? Just curious. I can see myself doing that, because I normally dont do sex that casually... talking about it and thinking, "oh yea, Im in!" but then as it gets closer going "weellll then again...."


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

minimalME said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... why you would have a problem with that is beyond me.
> 
> 
> 
> This male attitude of entitlement to sex is exactly why I stopped dating.
> 
> Over the past two years, both overt and covert communication has consistently been, 'You will have sex with me. You will have it on my timeline. Or I have no interest in knowing you.'
> 
> It's the tactic of bullies, and it's very, very manipulative - right alongside accusing women of playing games and perpetuating this nonsensical notion that promiscuous behavior is some sort of positive, evolutionary progress.
> 
> Way too many middle aged, single/divorced men have now returned to an adolescent, immature state of looking for 'hot and fun'. That's become the priority, and women have encouraged it.
> 
> The only way it will change, is for women to value and require delayed gratification. And it is on the shoulders of women to reverse this dynamic. Men won't. Why would they?
Click to expand...

There were consequences to the Sexual Revolution and the successive waves of feminism.

Even so, the old nugget of 'a key that opens many locks is valued, while a lock that is opened my many keys is just a sh!tty lock' truth still holds true. I always lost interest in women that gave it up too easily. Would I still try to get it, of course!


----------



## Ynot

3Xnocharm said:


> Personally I found it weird that sex was discussed and planned on for the second date, lol! But thats probably just me. I dont think you feel entitled, Y. If she had told you that she had second thoughts about the sex because, lets say, that isnt something she normally does that quick, but that she was still very interested and wanted to go on the date to see how things progressed between you... would you have gone ahead with the date? Just curious. I can see myself doing that, because I normally dont do sex that casually... talking about it and thinking, "oh yea, Im in!" but then as it gets closer going "weellll then again...."


The topic just came up, in fact she was the one who brought it up to begin with. Either way, it is something that I prefer to talk about sooner rather than later. As I told the other poster (who decided to ignore it) had this woman not brought it up or had not seemed to be in agreement, I MIGHT have decided to see how things developed. The fact that it was discussed and she was in agreement, then decided to change her mind seemed to me to be a **** test. Give in now, so I can see if you will keep giving in later. Been there, done that. I am no more interested in getting friend zoned out of the chute, than any of the women tossing insults at me.
Despite what some women think there are plenty of women who seek out and enjoy casual relationships. It is not just men with a preadolescent attitude. I am not really interested in a GF at this time. I am enjoying meeting people, doing my own thing, my independence, my freedom etc, to give it all away in order to have one. Maybe, if I meet the right woman, I might change my mind. There are lots of women who feel the same way.
So, I am honest and open. I discuss who I am, where I am at and what I am looking for. If I happen upon a woman who is seeking the same things, we move forward. If I meet someone who doesn't feel the same way, we part as friends and I wish them luck. Despite what some people think, I am not obligated to settle for less than I want because some woman doesn't want what I want.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There were consequences to the Sexual Revolution and the successive waves of feminism.
> 
> Even so, the old nugget of 'a key that opens many locks is valued, while a lock that is opened my many keys is just a sh!tty lock' truth still holds true. I always lost interest in women that gave it up too easily. Would I still try to get it, of course!


Thankfully, it’s very easy to avoid men like you.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> 3Xnocharm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I found it weird that sex was discussed and planned on for the second date, lol! But thats probably just me. I dont think you feel entitled, Y. If she had told you that she had second thoughts about the sex because, lets say, that isnt something she normally does that quick, but that she was still very interested and wanted to go on the date to see how things progressed between you... would you have gone ahead with the date? Just curious. I can see myself doing that, because I normally dont do sex that casually... talking about it and thinking, "oh yea, Im in!" but then as it gets closer going "weellll then again...."
> 
> 
> 
> The topic just came up, in fact she was the one who brought it up to begin with. Either way, it is something that I prefer to talk about sooner rather than later. As I told the other poster (who decided to ignore it) had this woman not brought it up or had not seemed to be in agreement, I MIGHT have decided to see how things developed. The fact that it was discussed and she was in agreement, then decided to change her mind seemed to me to be a **** test. Give in now, so I can see if you will keep giving in later. Been there, done that. I am no more interested in getting friend zoned out of the chute, than any of the women tossing insults at me.
> Despite what some women think there are plenty of women who seek out and enjoy casual relationships. It is not just men with a preadolescent attitude. I am not really interested in a GF at this time. I am enjoying meeting people, doing my own thing, my independence, my freedom etc, to give it all away in order to have one. Maybe, if I meet the right woman, I might change my mind. There are lots of women who feel the same way.
> So, I am honest and open. I discuss who I am, where I am at and what I am looking for. If I happen upon a woman who is seeking the same things, we move forward. If I meet someone who doesn't feel the same way, we part as friends and I wish them luck. Despite what some people think, I am not obligated to settle for less than I want because some woman doesn't want what I want.
Click to expand...

 @Ynot, I assume you are meeting these women through OLD? If so, do you state in your profile that are not interested in a relationship? That you are only interested in casual sex? If you do, then I want to thank you for doing so. My experience is that most men do not even when flat out asked "what type of relationship are you seeking?".


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

That's one thing; I never felt "entitled" to sex when dating. But I know some men did / do, and I recall thinking they're knuckleheads and really don't appreciate "the whole woman".

But, I did have many times the woman thought she was entitled to sex and although I mostly complied, I think that's a double standard. ☺ Now I'm not saying it's ok for a man to expect sex. Just saying there's a little of it on the other side of the fence.

Although when single I thought it was a livable double standard.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were consequences to the Sexual Revolution and the successive waves of feminism.
> 
> Even so, the old nugget of 'a key that opens many locks is valued, while a lock that is opened my many keys is just a sh!tty lock' truth still holds true. I always lost interest in women that gave it up too easily. Would I still try to get it, of course!
> 
> 
> 
> Thankfully, it’s very easy to avoid men like you.
Click to expand...

If he isnt gay, he is trying to get you in bed. Just lots of men are afraid to push the envelope this day and age...or just too shy.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> If he isnt gay, he is trying to get you in bed. Just lots of men are afraid to push the envelope this day and age...or just too shy.


How many men have you dated? How many men "in this day and age" have you dated? Oh you are straight so you don't date men. Therefore, you also don't know what it's like to date men and what they do on average on a date. You only know what you would do and what other men tell you. That is not the full picture. You have no idea what it's like, trust me.

Nope. They don't all try to get you in bed on the first date. Some men have emotional maturity and don't want to go there until or unless they actually like the PERSON, because they care about people more than they care about "getting sex". They don't want to just "get sex" from a person they don't even know. They understand that sex happens in adult relationships, so there is no reason to push for it or worry about whether it will happen when the time is right or not.

But I understand that all of this is meaningless and not understandable to you and men like you. So go on thinking what you think. That's what makes it so easy for us to weed you out.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he isnt gay, he is trying to get you in bed. Just lots of men are afraid to push the envelope this day and age...or just too shy.
> 
> 
> 
> How many men have you dated? How many men "in this day and age" have you dated? Oh you are straight so you don't date men. Therefore, you also don't know what it's like to date men and what they do on average on a date. You only know what you would do and what other men tell you. That is not the full picture. You have no idea what it's like, trust me.
> 
> Nope. They don't all try to get you in bed on the first date. Some men have emotional maturity and don't want to go there until or unless they actually like the PERSON, because they care about people more than they care about "getting sex". They don't want to just "get sex" from a person they don't even know. They understand that sex happens in adult relationships, so there is no reason to push for it or worry about whether it will happen when the time is right or not.
> 
> But I understand that all of this is meaningless and not understandable to you and men like you. So go on thinking what you think. That's what makes it so easy for us to weed you out.
Click to expand...

You are right, maybe he has Low T.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> You are right, maybe he has Low T.


So even though there are men here at TAM who are respected and worldly and not gay and don't have low T, who would tell you themselves that they don't want sex until they know someone a bit first, you still maintain that you speak for "all men"?

I notice that you don't ever go after those men and post things like you post to me. Things about how "men are" and how "they are gay if"...

Why don't you challenge men who say other than you say? It seems you need to convince them that they are like you, not me. They are the ones saying they are not. But you only challenge women and tell women how "men are". I wonder why.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> @Ynot, I assume you are meeting these women through OLD? If so, do you state in your profile that are not interested in a relationship? That you are only interested in casual sex? If you do, then I want to thank you for doing so. My experience is that most men do not even when flat out asked "what type of relationship are you seeking?".


Yes, yes and yes. Although there isn't a choice for "just looking for casual sex". But here is the thing, I am not just looking for casual sex. Sexual compatibility is the single most important element of almost every single relationship between a man and a woman. Openly and honestly discussing something this important is paramount to having a successful relationship. 
Way too many fumble their way into the bedroom after weeks or months "getting to know one another" only to find out too late, that they really don't. For some strange reason, people imagine it is more "mature" do not do what should be taking place naturally, because in their mind that is only what "immature" people do. To me it is a sign of blindly accepting the thoughts of others, and that is something I want no part of.
I think for myself, I act for myself. If someone wants to join me fine. If they don't fine. Because I always know eventually someone will.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are right, maybe he has Low T.
> 
> 
> 
> So even though there are men here at TAM who are respected and worldly and not gay and don't have low T, who would tell you themselves that they don't want sex until they know someone a bit first, you still maintain that you speak for "all men"?
> 
> I notice that you don't ever go after those men and post things like you post to me. Things about how "men are" and how "they are gay if"...
> 
> Why don't you challenge men who say other than you say? It seems you need to convince them that they are like you, not me. They are the ones saying they are not. But you only challenge women and tell women how "men are". I wonder why.
Click to expand...

You also shouldn't rule out the copious amounts of estrogen in drinking water. Normal to high testosterone = wants sex. 

But even if all checks out, Im not saying those men don't exist. I'm just saying they might have some Freudian issues that need further study. So be ready.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> You also shouldn't rule out the copious amounts of estrogen in drinking water. Normal to high testosterone = wants sex.
> 
> But even if all checks out, Im not saying those men don't exist. I'm just saying they might have some Freudian issues that need further study. So be ready.



Yes, you sure are the expert on men. I'm so glad you are kindly informing me of these factual facty facts.


----------



## john117

"Way too many middle aged, single/divorced men have now returned to an adolescent, immature state of looking for 'hot and fun'. "

Some of us never left the adolescent immature state 

It doesn't mean we don't know how to respect women tho.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's one thing; I never felt "entitled" to sex when dating. But I know some men did / do, and I recall thinking they're knuckleheads and really don't appreciate "the whole woman".
> 
> But, I did have many times the woman thought she was entitled to sex and although I mostly complied, I think that's a double standard. ☺ Now I'm not saying it's ok for a man to expect sex. Just saying there's a little of it on the other side of the fence.
> 
> Although when single I thought it was a livable double standard.


It isn't a double standard because she isn't entitled to sex, even if she goes for it. You are entitled to say no. If she gets butt hurt about hearing a no, then she's a jack ass.

Some men actually do say no because they don't trust a literal stranger trying to get into their pants.

Also some men don't feel that just any old sex offered to them by whoever is good enough.

I do kind of wish men understood other men more. Then they may understand women more. But straight men rarely understand what the experience of women dating straight men is like.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I assume you are meeting these women through OLD? If so, do you state in your profile that are not interested in a relationship? That you are only interested in casual sex? If you do, then I want to thank you for doing so. My experience is that most men do not even when flat out asked "what type of relationship are you seeking?".


Maybe it is just our liberal nature out here, but I see "casual only" and "FWB" checked or noted on profiles all the time. As well as couples who are looking for unicorns, poly people looking for triads and more, swingers, kinky freaks who are wearing vinyl head masks in their profile pictures.....I see everything.

But anyway, I do appreciate it when men let you know what they are really looking for. It is the ones who say "not sure yet" that I am leery of. Because I am sure, and I want to date someone who is sure of what they want.

I think you said you are on Match. On both bumble and okc there are settings in the profile that you pick and some of those settings are "casual" or "sex only" basically. I'm not sure how Match works on that part.

I really like bumble because the guys cannot even talk to you unless both you "like" each other first, and then you have to send the first message. And since plenty of these guys on bumble are marking that they are looking for casual only, I have to assume that there are women who are in the same camp. I know there are an awful lot of happy people screwing around here. 

Anyway, yeah it would suck if men didn't just say what they are looking for openly. I guess if at Match or in your area they are more likely to lie than be honest, you do have to do some weeding don't you. Yuck.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Also date update...last night's date, will call him R, just now texted me thanking me for last night, fully of sweet flirty compliments and confirming that he is checking his schedule to see if our next date will be Wednesday or Thursday.

We are going to a ping pong bar. If you have one of these in your city, it is so much fun! I love ping pong, even though I don't actually know how to score the game or serve....I mean I just love volleying the ball back and forth for fun. He said he is actually an expert player so he would take it easy on me. I said thank you, because I know I would not even be able to return his serve! 

I wish I was actually good at playing the game, but I am at least pretty good at volleying...and I just love every minute of it. Not sure why, but ping pong just makes me happy every time I do it.

Pips & Bounce Pong

I think it is good to pick a place for a date where you know you will be smiling the whole time. :grin2:


----------



## Elizabeth001

I’m glad @Ynot is not dating for a serious relationship. He isn’t ready for one. I do respect that he’s letting these women know up front though. 

I do wish we could all have a big group hug though  To each their own!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elizabeth001

I hate you. Really. 

I’m rolling in jealousy beotch!



Dang it! Forgot to include FW’s last post as a quote. Oh well...it’s wine  time!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ynot

Elizabeth001 said:


> I’m glad @Ynot is not dating for a serious relationship. He isn’t ready for one. I do respect that he’s letting these women know up front though.
> 
> I do wish we could all have a big group hug though  To each their own!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually it has nothing to do with being "ready" for one, whatever that really means. It just means I am not looking for one. I do not need a woman to make me happy, to complete me, or anything else. I have learned to be happy to be me and to be happy with who I am and what I want. People who wait until they are "ready" miss out on a whole bunch of life, because the reality is that no one is ever "ready". If they think they are, they are deluding others and even worse, themselves.
Believe it or not, not everyone (including many women) considers a relationship to be the epitome of existence, the holy grail to be pursued to the end of the world. Those who do usually end up bitter, lonely and disappointed or trapped in a bad relationship thinking there is no way out. If it happens, it happens.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Yes, yes and yes. Although there isn't a choice for "just looking for casual sex". But here is the thing, I am not just looking for casual sex. *Sexual compatibility is the single most important element of almost every single relationship between a man and a woman.* Openly and honestly discussing something this important is paramount to having a successful relationship.


 @Ynot, I think this is where some, including me, share a difference of opinion with you.  SOME people believe sexual compatibility is the single most important element between a man and a woman. A lot of people, especially in the 40+ age ranges, would tell you a different quality or a set of qualities are more important. 




Ynot said:


> Way too many fumble their way into the bedroom after weeks or months "getting to know one another" only to find out too late, that they really don't. For some strange reason, people imagine it is more "mature" do not do what should be taking place naturally, because in their mind that is only what "immature" people do. To me it is a sign of blindly accepting the thoughts of others, and that is something I want no part of.
> I think for myself, I act for myself. If someone wants to join me fine. If they don't fine. Because I always know eventually someone will.


I think it is great that you are bluntly honest about what you want with potential partners. You don't waste their time and they hopefully don't waste yours. 

I don't believe sex is the primary driver for a relationship based on my marital history where sex was plentiful yet our relationship still failed. For me, sex is a component but not the primary component. Emotional intimacy and vulnerability are more important factors to determining whether or not I want to pursue a relationship with a man than sexual compatibility. It has to come first.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Maybe it is just our liberal nature out here, but I see "casual only" and "FWB" checked or noted on profiles all the time. As well as couples who are looking for unicorns, poly people looking for triads and more, swingers, kinky freaks who are wearing vinyl head masks in their profile pictures.....I see everything.


Oh yeah, this must definitely be a regional thing. Here in the South, we don't see that kind of profile except on niche dating sites.



Faithful Wife said:


> But anyway, I do appreciate it when men let you know what they are really looking for. It is the ones who say "not sure yet" that I am leery of. Because I am sure, and I want to date someone who is sure of what they want.
> 
> I think you said you are on Match. On both bumble and okc there are settings in the profile that you pick and some of those settings are "casual" or "sex only" basically. I'm not sure how Match works on that part.
> 
> I really like bumble because the guys cannot even talk to you unless both you "like" each other first, and then you have to send the first message. And since plenty of these guys on bumble are marking that they are looking for casual only, I have to assume that there are women who are in the same camp. I know there are an awful lot of happy people screwing around here.
> 
> Anyway, yeah it would suck if men didn't just say what they are looking for openly. I guess if at Match or in your area they are more likely to lie than be honest, you do have to do some weeding don't you. Yuck.


Match let's you choose from 4 choices of relationships when you first set up your profile - Friends, Casual, Serious, and Long Term. You can only choose one. From talking to my guy friends, there aren't as many "casual" women to choose from than say "serious" or "long-term" and the ones in the casual category are usually inundated with attention. They have the pick of the litter so odds are that average Joe is not going to be noticed. A lot of the casual women are also "seeking arrangements" type women. Most men end up changing their search to include serious and long term women even though that's not really what they want. It's up to the women to weed out the guys looking for casual sex.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> @Ynot, I think this is where some, including me, share a difference of opinion with you.  SOME people believe sexual compatibility is the single most important element between a man and a woman. A lot of people, especially in the 40+ age ranges, would tell you a different quality or a set of qualities are more important.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is great that you are bluntly honest about what you want with potential partners. You don't waste their time and they hopefully don't waste yours.
> 
> I don't believe sex is the primary driver for a relationship based on my marital history where sex was plentiful yet our relationship still failed. For me, sex is a component but the primary component. Emotional intimacy and vulnerability are more important factors to determining whether or not I want to pursue a relationship with a man than sexual compatibility. It has to come first.


Perhaps 90% of the posts on TAM are concerning sex. Lack of sex, too much sex, extramarital sex, no sex, kinks, deviations, porn use etc. Granted this is a self selected group, but expand that to include all of the people you know. Heck, unless I have mistaken you for another member, the reason YOU are on TAM is because your ex cheated on you. So apparently, whatever sex there was, was not enough for him. 
People may try to tell themselves that they want to hold hands and stare into each others eyes, but in the end, the reason almost everybody gets into a relationship with someone is to have sex. It is basic human nature and a basic human need. Emotional intimacy and vulnerability are driven by having sex with each other. Afterall when are you more vulnerable or intimate than when you are lying naked together?


----------



## Red Sonja

Ynot said:


> Heck, unless I have mistaken you for another member, the reason YOU are on TAM is because your ex cheated on you. So apparently, whatever sex there was, was not enough for him.


This sounds like blaming the betrayed spouse and is a borderline-nasty statement when directed at Lila. Surely you realize that cheating is motivated by whatever is dishonorable and/or dysfunctional inside the cheater and has **** all to do with the betrayed spouse.


----------



## Ynot

Red Sonja said:


> This sounds like blaming the betrayed spouse and is a borderline-nasty statement when directed at Lila. Surely you realize that cheating is motivated by whatever is dishonorable and/or dysfunctional inside the cheater and has **** all to do with the betrayed spouse.


Not all. No one is blaming anybody. That is all in your head. Nothing nasty was meant by it. She was the one who said sex was not an issue. I pointed out that it was, even in her own marriage. You really need to take a chill pill and stop being so bitter yourself. NOTHING about that statement implies blame or nastiness. Get over yourself and stop imagining things that were never said.


----------



## ConanHub

Ynot said:


> Perhaps 90% of the posts on TAM are concerning sex. Lack of sex, too much sex, extramarital sex, no sex, kinks, deviations, porn use etc. Granted this is a self selected group, but expand that to include all of the people you know. Heck, unless I have mistaken you for another member, the reason YOU are on TAM is because your ex cheated on you. So apparently, whatever sex there was, was not enough for him.
> People may try to tell themselves that they want to hold hands and stare into each others eyes, but in the end, the reason almost everybody gets into a relationship with someone is to have sex. It is basic human nature and a basic human need. Emotional intimacy and vulnerability are driven by having sex with each other. Afterall when are you more vulnerable or intimate than when you are lying naked together?


Hey partner. I just want to back up what @Lila was saying.

I did not even come close to ending up with women who were sexually compatible with me.

Mrs. C beat the holy hell out of the competition because of other attributes. She gives her best in the bedroom, and it has gotten pretty good over the years, but I still compromise on that point.

I am extremely high drive and fairly uninhibited. Mrs. C has an average drive that is highly reactive so she isn't a total mismatch but no where near the animal I am.

I'm only telling you this so you understand the stark contrast. I can easily go 3x a day, every day and more on most days. I'm very adventurous as well.

Mrs. C is a bit shy, reserved and conservative in the bedroom.

She absolutely kills me with humor, is deserving of sainthood for her patience and generosity as well as handling one of the blackest tempers in existence in me.

Our basic values are nearly identical.

There were models, foxes, Amazon's and wild in bed bombshells that never appeared as more than a blip on my radar. Nothing at all wrong with them but Mrs. Conan had more than enough strength in other areas to grab my heart and never let go.

A lot of the sex problems on this site and IRL are also due to impasses in other areas of their relationships.

Many people have priorities and values like myself and @Lila .

Just sayin.


----------



## ConanHub

Ynot said:


> Not all. No one is blaming anybody. That is all in your head. Nothing nasty was meant by it. She was the one who said sex was not an issue. I pointed out that it was, even in her own marriage. You really need to take a chill pill and stop being so bitter yourself. NOTHING about that statement implies blame or nastiness. Get over yourself and stop imagining things that were never said.


Seriously dude, take a deep breathe.
@Red Sonja has shown herself to be far more grounded a poster than yourself.

It did look like you might have been blaming a betrayed spouse, even if that wasn't your intention, and it did look like a shot at her as well.

You also overreacted to Red's post and blatantly took a shot at her.

You could benefit from a skin thickener or ease off the caffeine.😉


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

ConanHub said:


> ]
> 
> Hey partner. I just want to back up what @Lila was saying.
> 
> I did not even come close to ending up with women who were sexually compatible with me.
> 
> Mrs. C beat the holy hell out of the competition because of other attributes. She gives her best in the bedroom, and it has gotten pretty good over the years, but I still compromise on that point.
> 
> I am extremely high drive and fairly uninhibited. Mrs. C has an average drive that is highly reactive so she isn't a total mismatch but no where near the animal I am.
> 
> I'm only telling you this so you understand the start contrast. I can easily go 3x a day, every day and more on most days. I'm very adventurous as well.
> 
> Mrs. C is a bit shy, reserved and conservative in the bedroom.
> 
> She absolutely kills me with humor, is deserving of sainthood for her patience and generosity as well as handling one of the blackest tempers in existence in me.
> 
> Our basic values are nearly identical.
> 
> There were models, foxes, Amazon's and wild in bed bombshells that never appeared as more than a blip on my radar. Nothing at all wrong with them but Mrs. Conan had more than enough strength in other areas to grab my heart and never let go.
> 
> A lot of the sex problems on this site and IRL are also due to impasses in other areas of their relationships.
> 
> Many people have priorities and values like myself and @Lila .Just sayin.


Yea, but unless you are one of those all too common 10x a year folks, then sex wouldnt be a priority for you. For the dead bedroom folks...the sex dies, the emotional intimacy dies and everything else rots away. Sex is the glue and without it everything falls apart. Cuz guess what, you dont marry to be roommates.


----------



## ConanHub

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yea, but unless you are one of those all too common 10x a year folks, then sex wouldnt be a priority for you. For the dead bedroom folks...the sex dies, the emotional intimacy dies and everything else rots away. Sex is the glue and without it everything falls apart. Cuz guess what, you dont marry to be roommates.


Those bizarre cases involve far more than sex infrequency.

They involve, animosity, lack of communication and lack of love and compassion.

When a wife really loves her husband and feels loved and fulfilled as well, she will walk through fire and kill orcs for her man.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

ConanHub said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, but unless you are one of those all too common 10x a year folks, then sex wouldnt be a priority for you. For the dead bedroom folks...the sex dies, the emotional intimacy dies and everything else rots away. Sex is the glue and without it everything falls apart. Cuz guess what, you dont marry to be roommates.
> 
> 
> 
> Those bizarre cases involve far more than sex infrequency.
> 
> They involve, animosity, lack of communication and lack of love and compassion.
> 
> When a wife really loves her husband and feels loved and fulfilled as well, she will walk through fire and kill orcs for her man.
Click to expand...

Is the sexless loveless marriage more bizarre than the one you describe? Haha.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Perhaps 90% of the posts on TAM are concerning sex. Lack of sex, too much sex, extramarital sex, no sex, kinks, deviations, porn use etc. Granted this is a self selected group, but expand that to include all of the people you know.


And when these people drill down most figure out that the lack of sex is due to some other issues in the marriage having nothing to do with sex. Others choose to treat the symptoms (sex) instead of addressing the problem (other non sexual martial issues). 



> *Heck, unless I have mistaken you for another member, the reason YOU are on TAM is because your ex cheated on you. So apparently, whatever sex there was, was not enough for him. *


You must have me confused with someone else. I came to TAM because my husband was treating me like an afterthought. Then he started having ED which I admit I handled poorly. I think the resentment from all that caused him to detach emotionally. We were still having sex (plenty of it) but it was just sex; very little emotional intimacy. His affair was an exit affair. 



> People may try to tell themselves that they want to hold hands and stare into each others eyes, but in the end, the reason almost everybody gets into a relationship with someone is to have sex. It is basic human nature and a basic human need. *Emotional intimacy and vulnerability are driven by having sex with each other. Afterall when are you more vulnerable or intimate than when you are lying naked together?*


Again, this is your opinion but no universal truth. 

No amount of sex was going to fix the lack of emotional intimacy and connection in my marriage. Trust me, I tried.


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> Those bizarre cases involve far more than sex infrequency.
> 
> They involve, animosity, lack of communication and lack of love and compassion.
> 
> When a wife really loves her husband and feels loved and fulfilled as well, she will walk through fire and kill orcs for her man.



Ding, ding, ding!!! You said it much better than I ever could. 

I would like to add resentment to the list of cases for sex infrequency. It's toxic and infects every part of a relationship.


----------



## bkyln309

Well as someone who was married to someone who was asexual, sex is one of the most important factors to me in a relationship. I want to know early that there is compatibility there. My ex's lack of desire had nothing to do with our relationship. He didnt want sex from the honeymoon on and we didnt engage in pre-marital sex.

I think most men on the market today are going to expect sex rather early on. Its just todays dating scene. Whether you engage or not is your choice. But it is the norm.


----------



## Ynot

Well, as Lila herself asked in "Another what women want" thread, "It's entitlement to have preferences?"

I have preferences, just like all of the rest of you. That does not make me "entitled" it simply means that I have my preferences. So all of you can stop with saying I am projecting, that I have issues or that I am flying off the handle.


----------



## bkyln309

Ynot said:


> Well, as Lila herself asked in "Another what women want" thread, "It's entitlement to have preferences?"
> 
> I have preferences, just like all of the rest of you. That does not make me "entitled" it simply means that I have my preferences. So all of you can stop with saying I am projecting, that I have issues or that I am flying off the handle.


Entitlement the favorite liberal buzzword to bring everyone into the same group think. I have no problem with anything you wrote. If two consenting adults agree to have casual sex, what is the big deal?


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Well, as Lila herself asked in "Another what women want" thread, "It's entitlement to have preferences?"
> 
> I have preferences, just like all of the rest of you. That does not make me "entitled" it simply means that I have my preferences. So all of you can stop with saying I am projecting, that I have issues or that I am flying off the handle.


I'm certainly not faulting your preferences. As you stated, we all have preferences. Yours are just as legitimate as mine. The problem I see is that you don't seem to grant the same allowance to others. You won't accept when others say they do not believe sex to be the primary driver for a relationship. Wanting a relationship to be based on something other than sex is just as much a personal preference as your preferences.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> I'm certainly not faulting your preferences. As you stated, we all have preferences. Yours are just as legitimate as mine. *The problem I see is that you don't seem to grant the same allowance to others. * You won't accept when others say they do not believe sex to be the primary driver for a relationship. Wanting a relationship to be based on something other than sex is just as much a personal preference as your preferences.


Again, I ask where in the heck you get the idea of what is bolded above. Where have I ever said anything which in any way implies that I don't? I totally accept whatever anyone else's choices are. But once again it does not mean that I am obliged to give up my own. 
I am honestly trying to understand where you get the idea that I haven't respected anyone wishes. Quite frankly I find it insulting that anyone would make the allegation that I haven't. 
She chose to not want to have sex. I chose to move on. How is that NOT granting her the right to choose? HOW?
I am not obligated to go along with her. I have the right to move on and pursue what I want. Had I forced her or pressured her you would have something to base your allegations on. But as it stands, you and anyone that agrees with you, are flat out wrong!


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Again, I ask where in the heck you get the idea of what is bolded above. Where have I ever said anything which in any way implies that I don't? I totally accept whatever anyone else's choices are. But once again it does not mean that I am obliged to give up my own.
> 
> I am honestly trying to understand where you get the idea that I haven't respected anyone wishes. Quite frankly I find it insulting that anyone would make the allegation that I haven't.


Well excluding the very insulting assumption you made about my marriage (which was incorrect btw), here are a few comments that come off as less than accepting of others preferences:

"People who wait until they are "ready" miss out on a whole bunch of life, because the reality is that no one is ever "ready". If they think they are, they are deluding others and even worse, themselves."

"People may try to tell themselves that they want to hold hands and stare into each others eyes, but in the end, the reason almost everybody gets into a relationship with someone is to have sex. It is basic human nature and a basic human need. Emotional intimacy and vulnerability are driven by having sex with each other. Afterall when are you more vulnerable or intimate than when you are lying naked together?"




> She chose to not want to have sex. I chose to move on. How is that NOT granting her the right to choose? HOW?
> I am not obligated to go along with her. I have the right to move on and pursue what I want. Had I forced her or pressured her you would have something to base your allegations on. But as it stands, you and anyone that agrees with you, are flat out wrong!


Please reread my comments to you. I have never said that I disagree with your choice not to date this woman. What I have said is that your disparaging language towards those who don't agree with your way of thinking makes you seem as less than accepting of others preferences.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Sex is extremely important to me in any relationship, and a relationship would end immediately without sex.

However, it’s sex that is good for ME that I’m interested in. I hope it’s good for him too but I trust he will leave if it isn’t. Whereas, sex that is good for me isn’t just available from any guy.

There are things I do to vet a person to see if there is a chance of them being a good lover for ME. The fact that we are mutually attracted to each other means nothing. I’ve had enough horrible kisses and enough bad lovers (thankfully far in the past at this point) AND enough awesome lovers and kisses to know that I can’t make any assumptions. I have to take a test drive by having a nice make out session at least once or twice before any clothes come off. 

If the make out is lack luster, there are no more dates.

I also have to have some conversations about sex. What are you into, what are you not into, what has your experience been so far (no explicit details), do you have any kinks, are you going to run away screaming if you hear about mine, how confident are you in your body and skills, are you a boob/ass/leg man (or all of the above). I also need to know what kind of things may be haunting someone, like having been cheated on, CSA, etc.

Just in having these conversations I can weed a lot of people out. It gets pretty obvious what a person’s attitudes about sex and what their confidence level is.

I also keep listening for things that are just a straight up turn off to me. For instance, if a guy asks “do you enjoy oral?” I’ll have a conversation with him about it, whereas if he asks “do you suck **** and swallow” I’m going to ask for the check. Although I love me some dirty talk and have a really naughty sense of humor, these are not things I’m going to be doing on a first or second date. I still don’t know this person and being crude about sex is, to me, in poor taste until you know a person better.

Then there is the fact that I need to be sexually exclusive with someone before having sex. So I have already asked questions about that before the first date usually. People who don’t want to be exclusive before having sex can just opt out, which they do and that clears the way for the rest of us who do want exclusivity. 

When all goes right, all of the above can usually happen within 3 dates. There are usually some texting and phone calls in there as well.

Since I have always gotten what I’m after, which is a good guy who is into me, we are exclusive and the sex is incredible, I figure my plan works well for me.

The whole thing is about making sure the sex will be good for ME. If have any hint that it won’t be, I’m gone. It takes me a minimal amount of time trying determine this. If a guy literally can’t wait it out a few dates so that I can make sure he’s not a dud in bed, then good riddance. Especially if he thinks I’m just trying to play games or whatever. It’s as if some men think that since they most likely will ejaculate with nearly any woman they stick their **** into, that this actually means it will also be good for her.

Sorry, no. I have to take responsibility for making sure any man I have sex with has a good chance of being a good lover for me. It’s not up to the man to decide this for both of us. A man I’ve just met on one date doesn’t know enough about me to have any clue what I’m going to need and want in bed.

Since all of my lovers have been supremely fulfilled and we have wild awesome monkey sex every single time, and not one of them ever complained that having to go on maybe 3 dates with me before having sex, I don’t see why other men seem to think that if I don’t put out on a first date that it means I’m a frigid cow. Every man I’ve ever been with has acknowledged that I’m the most sexual person they have ever met.

My date for tomorrow night, we had some really fun conversations so far. He is getting to know me a bit. He is seeing where I’m going with this. He has a glimpse now of what it might be like between us. 

I didn’t ask about his size, but he brought it up. They usually do. And as people at TAM know, peens are one of my favorite topics. So I lit up and couldn’t wait to hear more. Without saying anything crude, we had a long conversation about his and my pink parts and how well they may fit together. 

He has not sent me any pictures of it (thankfully as that is weird and makes me next them), but once we are lovers, I will want pictures of it all the time and will be taking many of them myself. He also hasn’t asked for any pictures, but in the same way, if we get to the next stage I’ll send him or take any pictures he wants. He is an ass man and I have a exquisite ass so ass pictures are actually pretty simple to get a good one that will throw him over the edge.

And if we don’t get to that stage....I’d be pretty surprised at this point because he is meeting all my hopes with flying colors so far. But if we don’t, I’ll be going on more dates looking for that all over again.

It’s worth it not to settle. And I will never ever have mediocre sex again in my life. Crappy sex IS settling. Even if it wasn’t crappy for him.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> There are things I do to vet a person to see if there is a chance of them being a good lover for ME. The fact that we are mutually attracted to each other means nothing. I’ve had enough horrible kisses and enough bad lovers (thankfully far in the past at this point) AND enough awesome lovers and kisses to know that I can’t make any assumptions. I have to take a test drive by having a nice make out session at least once or twice before any clothes come off.
> 
> *If the make out is lack luster, there are no more dates.*
> 
> I also have to have some conversations about sex. What are you into, what are you not into, what has your experience been so far (no explicit details), do you have any kinks, are you going to run away screaming if you hear about mine, how confident are you in your body and skills, are you a boob/ass/leg man (or all of the above). I also need to know what kind of things may be haunting someone, like having been cheated on, CSA, etc.
> 
> I also keep listening for things that are just a straight up turn off to me. For instance, if a guy asks “do you enjoy oral?” I’ll have a conversation with him about it, whereas if he asks “do you suck **** and swallow” I’m going to ask for the check. Although I love me some dirty talk and have a really naughty sense of humor, these are not things I’m going to be doing on a first or second date. I still don’t know this person and being crude about sex is, to me, in poor taste until you know a person better.
> 
> Then there is the fact that I need to be sexually exclusive with someone before having sex. So I have already asked questions about that before the first date usually. People who don’t want to be exclusive before having sex can just opt out, which they do and that clears the way for the rest of us who do want exclusivity.


Quoting these portions because you and I are the same here, especially the bolded part! I figure if you cant kiss well, you cant F well either, LOL! Immediate turnoff, interest gone. This is just who I am. I tried the casual, non exclusive thing and have had ONE, one night stand, and honestly they both left me feeling meh, like I wasnt being true to who I really am. I am NOT a prude, but do need a connection for me to be into intimacy. I have a good friend who gets into sex talk with men she chats with from OLD and I just cannot relate, I cant do that! Just hearing her talk about it feels squicky to me LOL...


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> Well excluding the very insulting assumption you made about my marriage (which was incorrect btw), here are a few comments that come off as less than accepting of others preferences:
> 
> "People who wait until they are "ready" miss out on a whole bunch of life, because the reality is that no one is ever "ready". If they think they are, they are deluding others and even worse, themselves."
> 
> "People may try to tell themselves that they want to hold hands and stare into each others eyes, but in the end, the reason almost everybody gets into a relationship with someone is to have sex. It is basic human nature and a basic human need. Emotional intimacy and vulnerability are driven by having sex with each other. Afterall when are you more vulnerable or intimate than when you are lying naked together?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please reread my comments to you. I have never said that I disagree with your choice not to date this woman. What I have said is that your disparaging language towards those who don't agree with your way of thinking makes you seem as less than accepting of others preferences.


So, let me see if I have this right - you are allowed to make up things to say about me, but I am not allowed to defend myself. If I do then I have issues or I am projecting? Do I have that right? Because that is all you are saying.
You and others have made up things about me that were never said, but then you want to quote my explanation as evidence that I am not willing to allow others to have their preferences? The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of the outright lies that you continue to perpetrate and defend.
At no point have I ever said anyone is not entitled to their opinion, I have merely stated my own. If someone has a different opinion or preference than I do, that is theirs to have, and I am allowed to opine that they are wrong. Especially when those opinions are aimed at me.


----------



## Ynot

This has been quite an enlightening discussion. So apparently, women are allowed to have preferences, opinions and options. Men are not allowed the same. If they do they have issues or are projecting or worse they feel entitled! This is all too funny, especially coming from the members who are claiming this.
I sincerely hope that some of you think about what you are saying and stop repeating this non-sense.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> So, let me see if I have this right - you are allowed to make up things to say about me, but I am not allowed to defend myself. If I do then I have issues or I am projecting? Do I have that right? Because that is all you are saying.
> You and others have made up things about me that were never said, but then you want to quote my explanation as evidence that I am not willing to allow others to have their preferences? *The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of the outright lies that you continue to perpetrate and defend*.


Show me where I am I said you were projecting or said you had issues? 

Show me where I perpetuated lies about you? 




> At no point have I ever said anyone is not entitled to their opinion, I have merely stated my own. If someone has a different opinion or preference than I do, that is theirs to have, and I am allowed to opine that they are wrong. Especially when those opinions are aimed at me.


There's a difference between "my opinion differs from yours" and "your opinion is wrong". One is open to genuine debate and mutual respect, the other is insulting.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> .
> 
> Then there is the fact that I need to be sexually exclusive with someone before having sex. So I have already asked questions about that before the first date usually. People who don’t want to be exclusive before having sex can just opt out, which they do and that clears the way for the rest of us who do want exclusivity.
> 
> When all goes right, all of the above can usually happen within 3 dates. There are usually some texting and phone calls in there as well.
> 
> Since I have always gotten what I’m after, which is a good guy who is into me, we are exclusive and the sex is incredible, I figure my plan works well for me.
> .


Exclusive after 3 dates? How would you know by 3 encounters if you aren't just another plate he is spinning? Unless you are tracking him or blowing up his phone, he could just be BS'ing you. I would never lie to women about my intent or status, I just don't care enough to, but Im sure others do for some relatively quick tail. And Im way too busy to get to know someone that well in that short a time. Id be worried about their mental state if they started talking exclusivity that early.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> Show me where I am I said you were projecting or said you had issues?
> 
> Show me where I perpetuated lies about you?
> 
> The lie you have told about me is that I do not accept the preferences of others. As I have pointed out numerous times, respecting the opinion of others, in this case the woman who changed her mind, was exactly why I walked away. And as I have pointed out numerous times, had I actually forced or pressured her into having sex that would have NOT been respecting her opinion. But that hasn't stopped anyone from perpetrating the lie that I did not respect her opinion.
> 
> 
> There's a difference between "my opinion differs from yours" and "your opinion is wrong". One is open to genuine debate and mutual respect, the other is insulting.


Yet, THAT is exactly what you have done to me! You only feel insulted because it was your opinion that I disagreed with and when I gave you my reasons why, you tried to use my reasons as "evidence" to support your continued assertions. Of course I never accused you of not respecting another person's opinion, which is a lot more than I can say for you.


----------



## Ynot

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Exclusive after 3 dates? How would you know by 3 encounters if you aren't just another plate he is spinning? Unless you are tracking him or blowing up his phone, he could just be BS'ing you. I would never lie to women about my intent or status, I just don't care enough to, but Im sure others do for some relatively quick tail. And Im way too busy to get to know someone that well in that short a time. Id be worried about their mental state if they started talking exclusivity that early.


It's easy. She has standards. Which no one else is allowed to have. If they do they have issues and are projecting.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Exclusive after 3 dates? How would you know by 3 encounters if you aren't just another plate he is spinning? Unless you are tracking him or blowing up his phone, he could just be BS'ing you. I would never lie to women about my intent or status, I just don't care enough to, but Im sure others do for some relatively quick tail. And Im way too busy to get to know someone that well in that short a time. Id be worried abouy their mental state if they started talking exclusivity that early.


Being that the last 4 men I've been in a sexual relationship with wanted exclusivity for themselves first, including the man I'm about to go on a 3rd date with, I'm guessing that not all men think like you.

As I keep saying, since I do get what I want, I don't really know why you would try to chime in and make it sound like I'm not doing things in a way that works well for myself.

Also, if you want to try to randomly insult the men I've been in relationships with just to for some reason I'm not clear about, tear me down...then why are you even talking to me?

You're just going to insist that no matter what I say, no matter what I do, it must be wrong, stupid, I must be not reading the guys right, they must be gay, they must be low T? 

I'm not sure you even read the things I say or just find some snippet from me to try to insult me with. Why you do this, I have no clue.

When talking about being exclusive, we are not saying "it has to be YOU I'm exclusive with". What we are saying is that what we are both looking for is a relationship where neither of us are screwing other people or dating and looking for sex, etc.

And for some reason, even though you are the one who is so afraid of how many ***** on the carousel a woman has been on, you still don't understand why some men would want exclusivity before becoming sexual with a woman? Really?

It's like, you change your story and direction on what is right and what is wrong just to try to insult me. But it never makes any sense, so I don't get why you keep trying.

I'm here, I'm getting what I want, I don't have a string of broken hearts behind me, nor have I been cheated on or mistreated. I've had loving highly sexual relationships.

But somehow, you can't handle that. You have to tell yourself that I must be wrong about all of it.

Why? Why are you so obsessed with me? It's weird.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> I hate you. Really.
> 
> I’m rolling in jealousy beotch!
> 
> 
> 
> Dang it! Forgot to include FW’s last post as a quote. Oh well...it’s wine  time!


Back on topic (actual dating, lol)....Elizabeth, jealous because you love ping pong? Or because you aren't dating right now (I thought I read that you are on a dating hiatus?)

I'm really stoked about tomorrow's date, as much to make out some more as I am to play ping pong! :grin2:


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Yet, THAT is exactly what you have done to me! You only feel insulted because it was your opinion that I disagreed with and when I gave you my reasons why, you tried to use my reasons as "evidence" to support your continued assertions. Of course I never accused you of not respecting another person's opinion, which is a lot more than I can say for you.


Actually, I have had my fair share of differences of opinions on this forum and I don't think many people would argue that I'm respectful of their opinions even if we disagree. But I do have a problem with people who'd rather tear down the other person's mental state for their preferences than actually defend their own opinion on merit. 

Let me give you an example you provided with the words changed a bit.

"People who push for sex right away miss out on loving relationships, because the reality is that sex to them is **** sport. If they think sex without an emotional connection creates intimacy, *they are deluding others and even worse, themselves.*"

No, people who have sex right away are no more "delusional" than those who wait for a relationship. That's what I mean about respect.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> Being that the last 4 men I've been in a sexual relationship with wanted exclusivity for themselves first, including the man I'm about to go on a 3rd date with, I'm guessing that not all men think like you.
> 
> As I keep saying, since I do get what I want, I don't really know why you would try to chime in and make it sound like I'm not doing things in a way that works well for myself.
> 
> Also, if you want to try to randomly insult the men I've been in relationships with just to for some reason I'm not clear about, tear me down...then why are you even talking to me?
> 
> You're just going to insist that no matter what I say, no matter what I do, it must be wrong, stupid, I must be not reading the guys right, they must be gay, they must be low T?
> 
> I'm not sure you even read the things I say or just find some snippet from me to try to insult me with. Why you do this, I have no clue.
> 
> When talking about being exclusive, we are not saying "it has to be YOU I'm exclusive with". What we are saying is that what we are both looking for is a relationship where neither of us are screwing other people or dating and looking for sex, etc.
> 
> And for some reason, even though you are the one who is so afraid of how many ***** on the carousel a woman has been on, you still don't understand why some men would want exclusivity before becoming sexual with a woman? Really?
> 
> It's like, you change your story and direction on what is right and what is wrong just to try to insult me. But it never makes any sense, so I don't get why you keep trying.
> 
> I'm here, I'm getting what I want, I don't have a string of broken hearts behind me, nor have I been cheated on or mistreated. I've had loving highly sexual relationships.
> 
> But somehow, you can't handle that. You have to tell yourself that I must be wrong about all of it.
> 
> Why? Why are you so obsessed with me? It's weird.


Why would I care about you? You are simply a case study to me. And since you are an open book on here, I can't help to question some of your assertions. If it works for you, then more power to you. I just don't get the exclusivity after 3 dates. Its not like I can't understand unofficially being exclusive with someone just because most people are busy with work and what have you to put a lot of time into dating. I just find the exclusive talk that early to be odd. But thats just me.

I dont change my story. I have standards. My standards are (or were) simple. Try to have sex with a date as quick as possible, if they comply I win. Then I ghost them. If they don't comply, but we hit it off and their 'mileage' is low, then they are LTR material. Thats where I am at now, I failed but I won.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Why would I care about you? You are simply a case study to me. And since you are an open book on here, I can't help to question some of your assertions. If it works for you, then more power to you. I just don't get the exclusivity after 3 dates. Its not like I can't understand unofficially being exclusive with someone just because most people are busy with work and what have you to put a lot of time into dating. I just find the exclusive talk that early to be odd. But thats just me.
> 
> I dont change my story. I have standards. My standards are (or were) simple. Try to have sex with a date as quick as possible, if they comply I win. Then I ghost them. If they don't comply, but we hit it off and their 'mileage' is low, then they are LTR material. Thats where I am at now, I failed but I won.


That's cool. Are you honest with women about yourself? Like after you try to get them to have sex right away and then they don't and it makes you see them as LTR potential, do you tell them later that if they had had sex with you, you would have hit it and run?

See it's things like this that make me think you aren't as healthy as you think you are. If you can't be honest about who you are in order to attract someone, if you have to hide your actual intentions and your real thoughts about women, then you are not actually attracting them to YOU, you are attracting them to a "fake" you who they will never truly know, it seems.

Just because you can't imagine being open and honest, doesn't mean others aren't able to do that.

See, we can say to each other "hey I don't screw people who are screwing other people, so that means I have to be exclusive with someone to take the next step". It doesn't mean that we have to have all the feels for each other first. It just means that we stop pursuing other dates with other people while we check each other out for a bit.

If you have sex that first time and it sucks, then you end the exclusive agreement, say thanks it was nice knowing you, and move on.

The way I do things, I never have to hide my actual intentions. Yes dude I'm on a date with, I'm vetting you to see if you will rock my world or not. No dude, we don't have to be in love with each other first. Yes dude I'm gonna rock your world, too. No dude, I don't need you to spend any more money or time on this once we have decided to be exclusive, let's get it on immediately after that. And yes dude, if the sex isn't awesome for me, I'll be gone after that.

I'm sorry but there are some men who don't have to hide what their real intentions are. And plenty of them have the same intentions that I do. I don't know why you keep coming back and trying to "pick on" men I've been talking about dates I've gone on. You are simply making things up. I'm being honest here and telling stories about my actual life, and you are making things up about my life (must be gay, must have low T, must have mental instability) and then seemingly trying to "warn" me about these things.

Dude....my life is awesome and especially my sex life.

Why on earth would I listen to you? Your views on all of this stuff do not match mine, and I don't run into the type of guys you keep trying to say are "everywhere". I have read all the books you claim are relevant. I disagree that your books are relevant, they do not apply to my dating life at all.

Contrary to the world picture you try to paint, we are not all out here trying to scam each other out of sex or into being controlled over sex. We are also not having to lie and hide our actual intentions. We can actually just be on the same page and get together and have a great time and no one gets screwed, cheated on, or controlled.

I'm sorry to tell you, there are people in the world who happily find partners.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> Actually, I have had my fair share of differences of opinions on this forum and I don't think many people would argue that I'm respectful of their opinions even if we disagree. But I do have a problem with people who'd rather tear down the other person's mental state for their preferences than actually defend their own opinion on merit.
> 
> Let me give you an example you provided with the words changed a bit.
> 
> "People who push for sex right away miss out on loving relationships, because the reality is that sex to them is **** sport. If they think sex without an emotional connection creates intimacy, *they are deluding others and even worse, themselves.*"
> 
> No, people who have sex right away are no more "delusional" than those who wait for a relationship. That's what I mean about respect.


That has NOTHING to do with respect. That has to do with differing opinions. Respect means that I allow you to hold whatever opinion you wish to have, it doesn't mean that I have to agree with it. If on the other had I pressured you or forced you to accept my opinion, again you would have a point. But since I haven't you are flat out wrong. Respecting another's opinion does NOT mean agreeing to that opinion. Respecting another's opinion means that you allow them to think whatever they want, even when you disagree with it.

But again, you have taken something that was said in defense of my opinion and attempted to use it as evidence to support your opinion. Which is a total lack of respect on your part. I do NOT have to agree with you, which is something you continue to push.


----------



## minimalME

Faithful Wife said:


> If you can't be honest about who you are in order to attract someone, if you have to hide your actual intentions and your real thoughts about women, then you are not actually attracting them to YOU, you are attracting them to a "fake" you who they will never truly know, it seems.


Exactly.

Everyone is free to have preferences. 

And there's an entire section on most dating profiles where one can list those specifics. Age, body type/weight, hair color, religion, etc. And there are at least two sites that I know of where you can put what type of relationship you're looking for - casual, friends, LTR, etc.

I've read many profile write-ups where the guys said they only wanted sex, and I appreciated those, because I never even had to communicate with them.

It becomes manipulation, when a person either provides information that's inaccurate, or he/she deliberately leaves out details that _they know_ will put them at a disadvantage - especially in regard to marital status and sexual expectations.

And when a person is willing to manipulate you to try and get their way, _they think they are entitled to do so_. They think they're special and deserve special treatment - as opposed to simply telling the truth and being accepted or rejected for who they really are.

If anyone thinks 'tweaking the facts' is fine, and 'just the way dating is these days', then they have no room to complain later when the other person's continued lack of integrity comes out in other areas.


----------



## Ynot

minimalME said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Everyone is free to have preferences.
> 
> And there's an entire section on most dating profiles where one can list those specifics. Age, body type/weight, hair color, religion, etc. And there are at least two sites that I know of where you can put what type of relationship you're looking for - casual, friends, LTR, etc.
> 
> I've read many profile write-ups where the guys said they only wanted sex, and I appreciated those, because I never even had to communicate with them.
> 
> It becomes manipulation, when a person either provides information that's inaccurate, or he/she deliberately leaves out details that _they know_ will put them at a disadvantage - especially in regard to marital status and sexual expectations.
> 
> And when a person is willing to manipulate you to try and get their way, _they think they are entitled to do so_. They think they're special and deserve special treatment - as opposed to simply telling the truth and being accepted or rejected for who they really are.
> 
> If anyone thinks 'tweeking the facts' is fine, and 'just the way dating is these days', then they have no room to complain later when the other person's continued lack of integrity comes out in other areas.


Wow, I am glad a woman said the exact same things that I have said over and over and over again, yet get accused of having issues, projecting and not respecting someone else's opinion as well as feeling entitled. Maybe now they will finally hear what I have been saying. Thank you.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I have had my fair share of differences of opinions on this forum and I don't think many people would argue that I'm respectful of their opinions even if we disagree. But I do have a problem with people who'd rather tear down the other person's mental state for their preferences than actually defend their own opinion on merit.
> 
> Let me give you an example you provided with the words changed a bit.
> 
> "People who push for sex right away miss out on loving relationships, because the reality is that sex to them is **** sport. If they think sex without an emotional connection creates intimacy, *they are deluding others and even worse, themselves.*"
> 
> No, people who have sex right away are no more "delusional" than those who wait for a relationship. That's what I mean about respect.
> 
> 
> 
> That has NOTHING to do with respect. That has to do with differing opinions. Respect means that I allow you to hold whatever opinion you wish to have, it doesn't mean that I have to agree with it. If on the other had I pressured you or forced you to accept my opinion, again you would have a point. But since I haven't you are flat out wrong. Respecting another's opinion does NOT mean agreeing to that opinion. Respecting another's opinion means that you allow them to think whatever they want, even when you disagree with it.
> 
> But again, you have taken something that was said in defense of my opinion and attempted to use it as evidence to support your opinion. Which is a total lack of respect on your part. I do NOT have to agree with you, which is something you continue to push.
Click to expand...

Lol, looks like we also dffer in opinions on the definition of respect. 

I'm not going to continue this exchange with you.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> That's cool. Are you honest with women about yourself? Like after you try to get them to have sex right away and then they don't and it makes you see them as LTR potential, do you tell them later that if they had had sex with you, you would have hit it and run?
> 
> See it's things like this that make me think you aren't as healthy as you think you are. If you can't be honest about who you are in order to attract someone, if you have to hide your actual intentions and your real thoughts about women, then you are not actually attracting them to YOU, you are attracting them to a "fake" you who they will never truly know, it seems.
> 
> Just because you can't imagine being open and honest, doesn't mean others aren't able to do that.
> 
> See, we can say to each other "hey I don't screw people who are screwing other people, so that means I have to be exclusive with someone to take the next step". It doesn't mean that we have to have all the feels for each other first. It just means that we stop pursuing other dates with other people while we check each other out for a bit.
> 
> If you have sex that first time and it sucks, then you end the exclusive agreement, say thanks it was nice knowing you, and move on.
> 
> The way I do things, I never have to hide my actual intentions. Yes dude I'm on a date with, I'm vetting you to see if you will rock my world or not. No dude, we don't have to be in love with each other first. Yes dude I'm gonna rock your world, too. No dude, I don't need you to spend any more money or time on this once we have decided to be exclusive, let's get it on immediately after that. And yes dude, if the sex isn't awesome for me, I'll be gone after that.
> 
> I'm sorry but there are some men who don't have to hide what their real intentions are. And plenty of them have the same intentions that I do. I don't know why you keep coming back and trying to "pick on" men I've been talking about dates I've gone on. You are simply making things up. I'm being honest here and telling stories about my actual life, and you are making things up about my life (must be gay, must have low T, must have mental instability) and then seemingly trying to "warn" me about these things.
> 
> Dude....my life is awesome and especially my sex life.
> 
> Why on earth would I listen to you? Your views on all of this stuff do not match mine, and I don't run into the type of guys you keep trying to say are "everywhere". I have read all the books you claim are relevant. I disagree that your books are relevant, they do not apply to my dating life at all.
> 
> Contrary to the world picture you try to paint, we are not all out here trying to scam each other out of sex or into being controlled over sex. We are also not having to lie and hide our actual intentions. We can actually just be on the same page and get together and have a great time and no one gets screwed, cheated on, or controlled.
> 
> I'm sorry to tell you, there are people in the world who happily find partners.


My girlfriend asked me exactly that if she would have had sex with me on the first or second date, would I have called her back and I told her no. Why would I lie?

And I didn't scam anyone for sex. I am who I am and was always honest. You use sexual cues to screen men for value and so did I for women.

And I never attacked your men. I'm sure they are alpha af and swing from chandeliers and $hit. Who cares. They still would have hit it if they knew it was on the table.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> Back on topic (actual dating, lol)....Elizabeth, jealous because you love ping pong? Or because you aren't dating right now (I thought I read that you are on a dating hiatus?)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really stoked about tomorrow's date, as much to make out some more as I am to play ping pong! :grin2:



Ping pong! Hahaaaa. Not really but it does sound fun. 

I suppose if I organically run into a nice fella that I feel attracted to that I would be overjoyed to date him. I have shut down all OLD however. 

I’m doing some installations at work so I’ve been out and about town more. Maybe that will be fruitful. Exposure has to at least up my chances. 

My two adult sons are very anxious for me to find a relationship. They’ve never witnessed me being single this long and they worry when I get lonely & down in the dumps sometimes. But I told them I won’t settle again. They seem to understand and provide tons of support. 

Gosh I did great raising those two 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## john117

Why does this thread feels a bit like the lost scripts from Game of Thrones...

Just a bit


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My girlfriend asked me exactly that if she would have had sex with me on the first or second date, would I have called her back and I told her no. Why would I lie?
> 
> And I didn't scam anyone for sex. I am who I am and was always honest. You use sexual cues to screen men for value and so did I for women.
> 
> And I never attacked your men. I'm sure they are alpha af and swing from chandeliers and $hit. Who cares. They still would have hit it if they knew it was on the table.


Awesome! So why don't you talk about yourself, your life, and your girlfriend more...instead of quoting me and talking about me, my life, and the men I've been dating?

You know about your life, not mine.

I'd be happy to hear about yours. I won't then quote you and try to turn everything into something it isn't, like you have done on mine. This is the singles thread. Please do share about your experience, and I'll share about mine.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> Ping pong! Hahaaaa. Not really but it does sound fun.
> 
> I suppose if I organically run into a nice fella that I feel attracted to that I would be overjoyed to date him. I have shut down all OLD however.
> 
> I’m doing some installations at work so I’ve been out and about town more. Maybe that will be fruitful. Exposure has to at least up my chances.
> 
> My two adult sons are very anxious for me to find a relationship. They’ve never witnessed me being single this long and they worry when I get lonely & down in the dumps sometimes. But I told them I won’t settle again. They seem to understand and provide tons of support.
> 
> Gosh I did great raising those two


There was a time when I really wanted my mom to get out there and date again. She was so vibrant and happy and deserved love to go on top of that. She had dated a few guys after divorce, one for several years, and then after that, she just stopped.

When I asked her about it at one point, long after her last date, she said she was fine by herself. She said unless a man literally walked himself into her front door, she wasn't going to look any more. She wasn't upset or sad about it, she was actually so very cool about it. And she never dated anyone since and is happy by herself now (she has me and other family, of course). She loved men in her lifetime and was done with that at a certain point.

Not saying that is you! Just saying that when she first said it to me, I felt bad/sad for her. But now, I don't. She knew what she was talking about.

Also, there was still at least the chance that a man might walk into her front door! Ha ha!


----------



## minimalME

john117 said:


> Why does this thread feels a bit like the lost scripts from Game of Thrones...
> 
> Just a bit


Love GOT!!!


----------



## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> There was a time when I really wanted my mom to get out there and date again. She was so vibrant and happy and deserved love to go on top of that. She had dated a few guys after divorce, one for several years, and then after that, she just stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> When I asked her about it at one point, long after her last date, she said she was fine by herself. She said unless a man literally walked himself into her front door, she wasn't going to look any more. She wasn't upset or sad about it, she was actually so very cool about it. And she never dated anyone since and is happy by herself now (she has me and other family, of course). She loved men in her lifetime and was done with that at a certain point.
> 
> 
> 
> Not saying that is you! Just saying that when she first said it to me, I felt bad/sad for her. But now, I don't. She knew what she was talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, there was still at least the chance that a man might walk into her front door! Ha ha!




She and I would get along quite well I’m sure 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> Quoting these portions because you and I are the same here, especially the bolded part! I figure if you cant kiss well, you cant F well either, LOL! Immediate turnoff, interest gone. This is just who I am. I tried the casual, non exclusive thing and have had ONE, one night stand, and honestly they both left me feeling meh, like I wasnt being true to who I really am. I am NOT a prude, but do need a connection for me to be into intimacy. I have a good friend who gets into sex talk with men she chats with from OLD and I just cannot relate, I cant do that! Just hearing her talk about it feels squicky to me LOL...


I was thinking a bit more about this.

I have a few girlfriends I’ve known over the years who would be up for a ONS (and had one or several of them in the time I knew her). I knew them well enough that I got the details about their adventures.

I’ve determined they had something in common with each other, and that something is different than me.

They fell into 2 groups. The ones who really didn’t care how the sex was for them (one of these women has never had an orgasm but just enjoys being sexual anyway).

And the ones who could have enjoyable sex (for her) with a virtual stranger. 

These women had a good amount of what they considered good sex, and they don’t seem to have regrets.

Maybe if I felt the same I would be DTF on a first date. But since I’m in neither group, I am forced to actually make sure a man will rock me before I go to bed with him. 

Since my way of going about finding such a man has always worked for me, I don’t see any reason to change it. I am sometimes jealous of my sisters who can get off from just any guy she’s attracted to. But I also have no complaints about my own experience (and quite a few of them are jealous of my sex life. They may **** strangers and find it exciting, but most of them have not experienced anything even close to the amazing sex I have, by their own account and their stated envy of my sex life).


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Faithful Wife said:


> Also date update...last night's date, will call him R, just now texted me thanking me for last night, fully of sweet flirty compliments and confirming that he is checking his schedule to see if our next date will be Wednesday or Thursday.
> 
> We are going to a ping pong bar. If you have one of these in your city, it is so much fun! I love ping pong, even though I don't actually know how to score the game or serve....I mean I just love volleying the ball back and forth for fun. He said he is actually an expert player so he would take it easy on me. I said thank you, because I know I would not even be able to return his serve!
> 
> I wish I was actually good at playing the game, but I am at least pretty good at volleying...and I just love every minute of it. Not sure why, but ping pong just makes me happy every time I do it.
> 
> Pips & Bounce Pong
> 
> I think it is good to pick a place for a date where you know you will be smiling the whole time. :grin2:


A ping pong bar? 
That's got to be great!

That brings back memories. 

Now, bear in mind, both my parents were considered almost pro in the 60s, and my family grew up having a pro table always set up in a spacious rec room. 

I mean we played all the time. My Mom was a great teacher in the fundamentals. My Dad was a great teacher on the aggressive smack down and the psychological aspect.

All us kids had the knack and experience to when we were very young appreciated different paddle styles, surfaces, grips, equipment. 

During my younger teen years I played with older teens and young men/women at our local swimming holes rec areas routinely topping the field. That's one reason I hung with older crowd some summers, besides being tall enough not to look like a kid among them.

To this day every now and then a friend or associate will have a table at an event and state they're the champs. 

I will sand bag just a bit, I never say well you know I've played a bit..
Dear W will just hang her head.

I just say all this to say I really like the game. 

If there's a table regularly at any locale it will draw out good players. 

A ping pong bar would be great!

:smile2:


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> I was thinking a bit more about this.
> 
> I have a few girlfriends I’ve known over the years who would be up for a ONS (and had one or several of them in the time I knew her). I knew them well enough that I got the details about their adventures.
> 
> I’ve determined they had something in common with each other, and that something is different than me.
> 
> They fell into 2 groups. The ones who really didn’t care how the sex was for them (one of these women has never had an orgasm but just enjoys being sexual anyway).
> 
> And the ones who could have enjoyable sex (for her) with a virtual stranger.
> 
> These women had a good amount of what they considered good sex, and they don’t seem to have regrets.
> 
> Maybe if I felt the same I would be DTF on a first date. But since I’m in neither group, I am forced to actually make sure a man will rock me before I go to bed with him.


My friend that I mentioned has met up with men who were pretty much complete strangers and had sex with them. Nothing else at all, no date, no drinks.. nothing. This after only fairly brief online messaging with them. She scares me honestly, to me this puts her in potential danger. But there is part of me that wishes I could be like this, and not so damn needy and emotional when it comes to sex. But then at the same time, I'm all "hell no!" no way, yuck! LOL!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I can say, if I had a daughter I'd be really concerned if she was sleeping with many men in ONS conditions. 

But if she was doing in a responsible way I'd be torn, but still think it's not best. 

On the third hand 😎 if I was not married and dating, and putting honesty out there, I likely would follow a couple /so paths:

1. There are women I'd date and desire to have sex with on the first date. They'd already be such women that I'd like to spend non-sex time with. If they don't have sex, I still may see them again. It's not all about their y/n to sex on first date. 

2. There are women I'd date, and they may turn out not to be keepers, but attractive, not terrible personalities but not my cup of permanent tea, I'd still try to have sex with them, and hey that may develop into more. The sexual aspect may be their top sales tool. At my age, not the best maybe for long term but overall package my be desirable. 

3. Women I'd date, attractive, knowing I'd never ever keep, but I'd still try and have sex. And if we just spend time mutually knowing it will never be forever, but we still have great times together I'd keep seeing her.

In all cases we'd have to spend time "making out" and they'd have to be good kissers, before we could go further.

I treated all three circumstances as no ltr possible when younger, because I wasn't looking for an ltr. 
Then my dear W showed up, I was surprised, and still going strong!

That way, when some filtered through, I knew they were more than casual. 

And, if happened today, I wouldn't be exclusive. I would be honest, courteous, kind, tasteful, and discreet but not exclusive. 

I'd be having a good time, and taking women along to share with, and be part of their world too, and see what develops. 

Some women today still feel offended and unattractive if a man doesn't at least try and kiss them, move towards sex, so the woman can say "not yet". 

I'd still be happy to play my part in that, even at my age. I get hit on often enough to believe I still have some great mileage left. 😍

I certainly don't have the answers on right/wrong, and don't believe there are iron clad right/wrong answers that are for all.

I do know that honesty, kindness, courtesy, affection, and empathy are all in every form of the "right answer".

Clear as mud. 😎😎


----------



## hope4family

As a Christian guy, I find a lot of this strange and foreign to me. Probably not the rock your world type. Hehe. 

It's good to have perspective as I read this though. In the dating world, saying that you are Christian, hopefully means that we share some common moral values. IE You aren't going to call me an idiot for praying before a meal. I am not saying that you aren't allowed to think I am or not though.

That being said, I definitely think I have repressed sexual desires, I really don't want to sleep around though. I see my heart as easily hurt and don't want to open myself up to the chemical high even if on paper I think I could handle it. 

I definitely agree on the risk aspect of meeting up just for sex. I can safely assume as risky as I think it would be for me I can see it being more risky for women to. They got needs though I guess. I just can't turn that short term risk analysis off for that though. 

I hope the SINGLES of TAM continue to keep the discussion going as SINGLES of TAM amongst ourselves.


----------



## Affaircare

@hope4family,

I am SOOOOO glad you said something! I've been reading along on this whole discussion and been a little gobsmacked, in that I am so not wired this way I can barely relate. 

I'm single and I like my own self and enjoy my own company, but I really do like sharing life too. I mean obviously-- @Emerging Buddhist and I just CLICKED, and I adore sharing life with him. In many ways it's like he is completely "who he is" and I am completely "who I am" and we just happen to be walking through life side-by-side. And I would say I'm no angel (after all, I have tattoos!  ) but I can count on my fingers the number of men I've slept with, and I like that fact. I'm far from a prude, but I am really selective who I share sexuality with, I'd say. 

When I date, I make it clear that I'm not there for sex...I'm there to get to know them as a person. Now, I'm not adverse to sex, and at some point that will be part of getting to know them because I truly believe there needs to be sexual compatibility. But to me, it is an ingredient in the entire mix, not the only ingredient (if that makes sense). Like...if someone was compatible in values and personality, but had no spirituality or wasn't sexually compatible, it would not be a match for me, in my opinion. Now, they may be a fine match for someone else...just not me! 

So I want to know about them first. I want to know their background a little, their values, their flaws and issues a little, their beliefs, their overall worldview....and based on some of that, I might feel attraction or not, and honestly for me, about 99% of attraction is being able to respect him. Let's be honest, looks are looks. There may be wrinkles, gray hair (or none  ), scars, etc. and not a lot of that matters if their love and kindness and patience radiates from their eyes to me! 

I go on the first date completely neutral, looking to find out about each other. Yeah I'd kiss but that's about it. Second date indicates some initial interest has been piqued, and I want to know more and would be willing to make out to some degree. Third date for me means I am interested in you, and then we get down to really sharing some deeper stuff. 

But I'll be honest, after Dear Hubby I sincerely thought he had ruined me for all other men! I had zero desire whatsoever to be interested in someone. Hey being in a relationship is work! LOL But like your mom, @Faithful Wife, I didn't look but figured if someone walked in my door, I wouldn't close the door. Lo and behold, that's pretty much exactly what happened! :grin2:


----------



## Ynot

I am so glad that others are allowed to engage in life their own way. I just wish that some of those same people allowed me the same option before saying I have issues or am just projecting and then accuse me of entitlement, when all I have done was explained, in the same patient manner as those other have.
Everybody has their own time table, their own methods, their own standards. None of us are obliged to comply with those and place theirs before our own. I wish others understood this.


----------



## hope4family

Affaircare said:


> @hope4family,
> 
> I am SOOOOO glad you said something! I've been reading along on this whole discussion and been a little gobsmacked, in that I am so not wired this way I can barely relate.
> 
> I'm single and I like my own self and enjoy my own company, but I really do like sharing life too. I mean obviously-- @Emerging Buddhist and I just CLICKED, and I adore sharing life with him. In many ways it's like he is completely "who he is" and I am completely "who I am" and we just happen to be walking through life side-by-side. And I would say I'm no angel (after all, I have tattoos!  ) but I can count on my fingers the number of men I've slept with, and I like that fact. I'm far from a prude, but I am really selective who I share sexuality with, I'd say.
> 
> When I date, I make it clear that I'm not there for sex...I'm there to get to know them as a person. Now, I'm not adverse to sex, and at some point that will be part of getting to know them because I truly believe there needs to be sexual compatibility. But to me, it is an ingredient in the entire mix, not the only ingredient (if that makes sense). Like...if someone was compatible in values and personality, but had no spirituality or wasn't sexually compatible, it would not be a match for me, in my opinion. Now, they may be a fine match for someone else...just not me!
> 
> So I want to know about them first. I want to know their background a little, their values, their flaws and issues a little, their beliefs, their overall worldview....and based on some of that, I might feel attraction or not, and honestly for me, about 99% of attraction is being able to respect him. Let's be honest, looks are looks. There may be wrinkles, gray hair (or none  ), scars, etc. and not a lot of that matters if their love and kindness and patience radiates from their eyes to me!
> 
> I go on the first date completely neutral, looking to find out about each other. Yeah I'd kiss but that's about it. Second date indicates some initial interest has been piqued, and I want to know more and would be willing to make out to some degree. Third date for me means I am interested in you, and then we get down to really sharing some deeper stuff.
> 
> But I'll be honest, after Dear Hubby I sincerely thought he had ruined me for all other men! I had zero desire whatsoever to be interested in someone. Hey being in a relationship is work! LOL But like your mom, @Faithful Wife, I didn't look but figured if someone walked in my door, I wouldn't close the door. Lo and behold, that's pretty much exactly what happened! :grin2:


Nothing wrong with a mindful tattoo IMHO. I could only decide on two, nobody would ever understand it. So I live by it instead. 

Any other tatts to me would just be a casual regret a few years later.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Affaircare said:


> But I'll be honest, after Dear Hubby I sincerely thought he had ruined me for all other men! I had zero desire whatsoever to be interested in someone. Hey being in a relationship is work! LOL But like your mom, @Faithful Wife, I didn't look but figured if someone walked in my door, I wouldn't close the door. *Lo and behold, that's pretty much exactly what happened!* :grin2:


Yes!!!! Actually my dear, your story is something like what I did think may happen for my mom one day! And frankly, it still could. :smile2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> My friend that I mentioned has met up with men who were pretty much complete strangers and had sex with them. Nothing else at all, no date, no drinks.. nothing. This after only fairly brief online messaging with them. She scares me honestly, to me this puts her in potential danger. But there is part of me that wishes I could be like this, and not so damn needy and emotional when it comes to sex. But then at the same time, I'm all "hell no!" no way, yuck! LOL!


Yes as much as I'm intrigued by the stories of my more liberal sisters....when I think of actually letting a stranger touch me.....ugh. I just almost gag. It doesn't matter how hot someone is. If I don't know them, they may as well be the grossest person I've ever met. Their touch would make me recoil. But to some of my lady friends, they are telling me the touch of a stranger is hot, fun, exciting. Color me confused!


----------



## Faithful Wife

hope4family said:


> As a Christian guy, I find a lot of this strange and foreign to me. Probably not the rock your world type. Hehe.
> 
> It's good to have perspective as I read this though. In the dating world, saying that you are Christian, hopefully means that we share some common moral values. IE You aren't going to call me an idiot for praying before a meal. I am not saying that you aren't allowed to think I am or not though.
> 
> That being said, I definitely think I have repressed sexual desires, I really don't want to sleep around though. *I see my heart as easily hurt and don't want to open myself up to the chemical high even if on paper I think I could handle it.*
> 
> I definitely agree on the risk aspect of meeting up just for sex. I can safely assume as risky as I think it would be for me I can see it being more risky for women to. They got needs though I guess. I just can't turn that short term risk analysis off for that though.
> 
> I hope the SINGLES of TAM continue to keep the discussion going as SINGLES of TAM amongst ourselves.


I do skip by profiles of men who say they are religious "and it matters" (or some version). Because I do not want to disrespect anything about their religion, and undoubtedly I would do so, even just by accident. I am not religious but I enjoy seeing and being around how others worship. I would go to church with someone, if they wanted me to. However, I avoid them because I do assume they will be a better match with someone of their faith. I would never make fun of anyone for praying at any time. 

Thank you for saying the bolded part.

It makes me sad that men who say honest things like the bolded are completely drowned out by the other men who are constantly telling us all "how men are". Except, I don't see how they would even know "how men are" since they do not go on dates with men.

Men are not the same. They do not all think and feel the same. Many men don't sleep around precisely because they have emotional needs and feelings beyond just getting their **** wet.

Anytime a man is telling me that "men are always going to go after sex or else he is gay" I just roll my eyes. It means the man speaking is always going to go after sex, and that he doesn't understand anything about what other men want and do.

Someone else mentioned they would always "try" for sex on a date.

I don't even know what that would look like. Sex is either mutually consented and is on the table, or it isn't. What would "trying to have sex with me" even consist of? It's absurd to me to think that a man would believe he could make me throw everything to the wind and say "oh my gosh you are such a stud that I am so turned on right now that yes yes yes, I must have sex with you this instant, on our very first date!"

I mean, really? It's just.....weird to me. Adults don't "try" to have sex with each other. They either do because they both consent and the time is right, or they don't.

Men I'm dating actually have hearts. They have integrity. They may be turned on by me but they also genuinely are interested in me. They don't have to "nail" me to prove something to themselves about their own insecurities. They actually want to know what I think, what I do, what I like and don't like, what my values are, where my heart lies. 

Thank you for also being a man like this (I am not trying to paint you or any man as a saint, I'm just saying that normal men have hearts, feelings, emotions and are not slavering dogs).


----------



## john117

"I hope the SINGLES of TAM continue to keep the discussion going as SINGLES of TAM amongst ourselves."

What I want to know is where do all these single older folk find the time, energy, money, and motivation to go on dates 3 and 4 times a week


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> "I hope the SINGLES of TAM continue to keep the discussion going as SINGLES of TAM amongst ourselves."
> 
> What I want to know is where do all these single older folk find the time, energy, money, and motivation to go on dates 3 and 4 times a week


John, when you live with your mother, you find reasons to get out of the house, at LEAST 3 times a week. :laugh:


----------



## Lila

john117 said:


> "I hope the SINGLES of TAM continue to keep the discussion going as SINGLES of TAM amongst ourselves."
> 
> What I want to know is where do all these single older folk find the time, energy, money, and motivation to go on dates 3 and 4 times a week


I try to schedule dates to fit in with my regularly scheduled program. For example coffee on the way to work, lunch during the work week, hiking when I'm already scheduled to do that with a group, etc. That way if the date falls through, I don't feel stood up. 

This happened Sunday. I had plans to attend a super bowl party at a bar with a Meetup group. Younger dude asked to be my date (#2) and I agreed. Unfortunately he forgot about an engagement he'd scheduled for his kids which he had to attend. No problem. I still went to the get together and met a new guy..... "mr. alma mater". 

You just gotta work them in when you can. I have a lunch date scheduled with Mr Alma Mater on Friday, I rescheduled young dude for tomorrow afternoon 
at the grocery store, and have date #2 with "passionate kisser" Saturday morning at my Saturday morning coffee stop.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

You youngsters and your energy...


----------



## Faithful Wife

@Lila, you are kicking ass at this.


----------



## Affaircare

john117 said:


> ... What I want to know is where do all these single older folk find the time, energy, money, and motivation to go on dates 3 and 4 times a week


Boy did you hit that nail on the head. Okay folks, I'm not shy--I'm 56yo and I can't imagine going on dates 3 or 4 times a week. I did try it once, and honestly I hated it! I have the energy I think--just don't want to spend it on 3-4 people at once. I have the time--we all have the same 24 hours after all. I have the money to go do stuff--I usually date by just doing what I like to do anyway and asking someone to come with me. But UGH! I have *no *motivation to date so many at once! 

I am DEFINITELY a "date one guy at a time" kind of gal. I date one, and if he's not a good match, I move to the next one. If he is a good match, well... I keep him! :x


----------



## Ynot

john117 said:


> "I hope the SINGLES of TAM continue to keep the discussion going as SINGLES of TAM amongst ourselves."
> 
> What I want to know is where do all these single older folk find the time, energy, money, and motivation to go on dates 3 and 4 times a week


Its easy - don't let work get in your way.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Affaircare said:


> Boy did you hit that nail on the head. Okay folks, I'm not shy--I'm 56yo and I can't imagine going on dates 3 or 4 times a week. I did try it once, and honestly I hated it! I have the energy I think--just don't want to spend it on 3-4 people at once. I have the time--we all have the same 24 hours after all. I have the money to go do stuff--I usually date by just doing what I like to do anyway and asking someone to come with me. But UGH! I have *no *motivation to date so many at once!
> 
> I am DEFINITELY a "date one guy at a time" kind of gal. I date one, and if he's not a good match, I move to the next one. If he is a good match, well... I keep him! :x


The most I have been able to handle is 2 at once. And that means literally just talking to 2 guys and lining up a meet with each of them. If I have a great meet with one before the other, I might decline meeting the 2nd one and keep going with the first one. That is what has happened with R, my ping pong date tonight. I was talking to another guy and planning to meet, but after my date with R I was much less interested, and then I just kind of dropped the conversation.

I can't do what @Lila is doing, that is for sure! I couldn't meet people for coffee on the way to work, or have them join me at a meet up, or meet me at the grocery store. I'm too introverted for that. I needs lots of down time and very little date time. So like tonight's date, I will be feeling very solitary up until I leave, because for me, it tugs at my introversion to even know I have a date later tonight. I already want to go home and get lots of alone time first. I have 4 hours at this point and I still have to work for an hour so that means only 3 hours before the date minus an hour for getting ready that means ONLY TWO HOURS TO MYSELF!!! And a tiny amount of panic sets in.

Also, after the date I will rush home and back to my alone space. I don't do the lingering around for half an hour, not wanting to let each other go, kind of thing. (Not on early dates like this, anyway). Nope, no matter how well the date went I always want to flee back to my space.

Then as I mentioned above, my mom lives there...so sometimes I have to flee my space because I don't feel my alone time. Usually I can even with her there, but sometimes I can't. 

I have the time and motivation to get a good balance of social/date/out of the house/away from mom time. But beyond a certain point I'm like, NO! I'm staying right damn here in my space, by mah-self! :laugh:


----------



## john117

Ynot said:


> Its easy - don't let work get in your way.


It is a lot more complicated than that. 

One of my favorite movies is G-Force, about guinea pigs as secret agents. 

In that movie there's a real unfriendly hamster that once the guinea pigs leave him alone in his habitat he's doing snow angels in his wood chips litter. He loves being alone.

That's me right now. Come back at 6, cook some awesomeness in the instant pot, slowly unpack a box or two, catch up with the daughters, go to the apartment gym for an hour, and that's it. 

I still need time to deal with the kids histrionics. Find a veterinary dermatologist because the cat scratched his ear. Determine if DD2's planned summer research location is safe . 

And lots of "executive time"


----------



## Ynot

john117 said:


> It is a lot more complicated than that.
> 
> One of my favorite movies is G-Force, about guinea pigs as secret agents.
> 
> In that movie there's a real unfriendly hamster that once the guinea pigs leave him alone in his habitat he's doing snow angels in his wood chips litter. He loves being alone.
> 
> That's me right now. Come back at 6, cook some awesomeness in the instant pot, slowly unpack a box or two, catch up with the daughters, go to the apartment gym for an hour, and that's it.
> 
> I still need time to deal with the kids histrionics. Find a veterinary dermatologist because the cat scratched his ear. Determine if DD2's planned summer research location is safe .
> 
> And lots of "executive time"


Nothing wrong with wanting to be alone. Just don't allow it to become a bad habit until you become a hermit.
When I first got divorced I fought that urge. I lived in an apartment right across the street from the gym, so that I didn't have any excuses. I got into some of the best shape of my life. I was lifting, spinning, road riding, running and doing yoga as well. I lost 45 pounds.
The complex's bar was right below the gym. So I started going there. I also started eating there, because I got tired of cooking and then cleaning.
My kids? They had already moved out and were living on their own. My input was only necessary when they requested it otherwise. I lived my life and they lived theirs. Today almost 5 years later, I have a great relationship with both my children and their spouses.
Now, I sometimes wish I didn't have so many friends. Every week I start off with the best of intentions, Be good, don't drink so much, don't stay out too late, don't smoke etc, etc. Almost every night, I end up going out to do something.
Just be patient and allow your new life to develop. In no time at all, you will have more things to do than you ever imagined. Much of the time needed to do the new things will have become available when you realize all of the crap that you no longer have to do to keep someone else happy.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> @Lila, you are kicking ass at this.


I think it's more that I'm not giving it much thought beyond treating everyone like a potential friend. They know my intentions from the get go. I am piss poor at texting and would rather talk on the phone (usually while I'm commuting) or make plans to meet. I would never get to know them otherwise. 

This week is a little crazy because I do not date on evenings or weekends when I have custody of my son. Unless it's on my way to work, during lunch, or while I'm running errands, it isn't going to happen except for every other week. 

So yeah, there's a reason for the madness. My guess is that all of the guys I'm dating/talking to will naturally fall away when they find someone better. It's the name of the game and the reason why I'm not really taking it very seriously beyond making new friends.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Great date #3! Ping ping was a blast. We played long and hard enough (just volleying) to get sweaty and our hearts were racing for sure. He could have creamed me over and over, but he was also pretty impressed with mah skillz. I legit smoked him many times. 

Then we walked across the street to a bar. We talked for a couple of hours about our mutual interest in each other. He said he looked up things about my sign in a dorky (his word) attempt to see if he could learn more about me. We talked about our signs and if we felt the descriptions of them are accurate to us, in our opinions. So we did actually learn a bit about each other as a result of his horoscope stalking me, hee hee!

We talked about where our lives are going and our long term plans and goals. We talked about dating, relationships, our divorces, our kids, our current goings on. Talked about sex in dating, potential sex with each other (technical things like where it would have to be...a little bit of a dilemma because he has his kids and I have my mom), our views and thoughts on sex. He stopped to just randomly express several times things like “I hope you’re feeling me, I’m really interested in you. I don’t just throw myself around with this stuff”.

By the end we had agreed to take down our profiles and just see how this goes. We don’t have a kid/mom free weekend yet. So we are going to try to meet up and um, find somewhere to go on a date that we can make out. Not too crazy like get the police called on us, but at least some nice mashing. We decided to go to a living room theater where we can have a nice big love seat and try to get a little snogging in. Besides that our goal is to keep talking. There are lots more things I want to discuss that we haven’t yet. Fun things. More specific sexual things I will want to talk about after we have made out some more.

He is a quality guy. He is looking for a quality woman. I’m in a great place in my life and am definitely in that category. I’m proud to say so. :laugh:

He walked me to my car and it was just too damn cold out (felt like 25 degrees or so) to stand there and kiss much. So we only got a bit of kissing in and no groping or fondling. That’s how cold it was! Ha!

Nice kisses though and I want more. Saturday is our next make out date, hopefully this time we will actually get to make out.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I looked back at this most recent dating adventure's numbers, just for fun.

My on-again-off-again boyfriend and I broke up in October. In November I got back on OLD. I would not be able to count the number of conversations I had with dudes on the apps, there were just too many. 

During November, December and January I went on 12 first dates with different guys. (Not including @ReformedHubby - he's in a class of his own, but also he's not from OLD  ).

Of those 12, I went on a second date with three of them. So nine of them either weren't into me, I wasn't into him, or we just immediately friend zoned each other.

On two of the second dates, the dates were nice but I discovered something about him that made me not want to continue (nothing big, just things I know aren't compatible for me).

Except the 3rd second date...he's the one (R) that then turned into a 3rd date last night and a 4th date this weekend. I'm pretty sure things are headed toward this one being my boyfriend. Woo hoo!

So it took me three months and meeting 12 guys to find a boyfriend. I have found that is about average. Or at least, that's about long and about how many dates it has taken for me to find my 2 post divorce boyfriends on OLD (met both of them on OK cupid, met this one on bumble).

I actually thought it had been longer when I was looking back at the calendar. Feels longer because I haven't had sex since October so naturally that feels like two years ago! :laugh:


----------



## Red Sonja

john117 said:


> What I want to know is where do all these single older folk find the time, energy, money, and motivation to go on dates 3 and 4 times a week


I hear you ... I have everything you mentioned except for the time. In my line of work I get emergency calls at least once a week where I may be out for hours at a time. Between that, recreational activities and volunteer work there is little time left.

@Faithful Wife lives with her Mom; I live with "crazy dogs" who are not good with human company. I always have 2 dogs living with me that are in various stages of behavior rehabilitation (before adoption) ... that's what I do these days.

And, I'm retired from my former career so I don't know how others go out on dates at that rate with scheduled work/careers.


----------



## ConanHub

Red Sonja said:


> I hear you ... I have everything you mentioned except for the time. In my line of work I get emergency calls at least once a week where I may be out for hours at a time. Between that, recreational activities and volunteer work there is little time left.
> 
> @Faithful Wife lives with her Mom; I live with "crazy dogs" who are not good with human company. I always have 2 dogs living with me that are in various stages of behavior rehabilitation (before adoption) ... that's what I do these days.
> 
> And, I'm retired from my former career so I don't know how others go out on dates at that rate with scheduled work/careers.


Crazy dog lady....:wink2:


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> So it took me three months and Feels longer because I haven't had sex since October so naturally that feels like two years ago! :laugh:


 
Three months?? Amateur!! 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> During November, December and January I went on 12 first dates with different guys. (Not including @ReformedHubby - he's in a class of his own, but also he's not from OLD  ).


You were in a class of your own too @faithfulwife! I very much enjoyed meeting you, and Portland is a happy place with happy people. If the new guy isn't treating you well, I have no issues taking that six hour flight to give him the appropriate attitude adjustment....Hmmmm....actually...you don't need my help. You can handle it on your own :wink2:. I think we all know that LoL.


----------



## Lila

Update:

So people don't think I'm having ALL of the fun, here's a couple of examples of what I meant by "guys will naturally fall away when they find someone better. It's the name of the game and the reason why I'm not really taking it very seriously beyond making new friends" using Younger Guy and Passionate Kisser as examples:

- Younger Guy: Based on today's shopping adventure, I will not be seeing him again. He has some form of OCD/cleanliness obsession. During Date #1, he made a point of looking inside my car and commenting on a gift card and ball that were left in the backseat. I wrote it off believing he was just looking for something to talk about. Today he freaked out at the equipment in the backseat which I was delivering to a project site. Then he sort of wilted when he saw the state of my camera. It was weird. 

- Mr. Passionate Kisser: He's slow faded, usually a sign they've found someone better. I doubt he will be meeting me for coffee Saturday morning.

No need to feel sorry for me. I'm talking to several other guys and have two first dates scheduled this weekend. I'm hopeful that I can get past the three date threshold I seem to be experiencing. Things either fizzle out (my end or his or both) or the deal breakers/incompatibilities start to show by then. I am wondering if that's normal.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I looked back at this most recent dating adventure's numbers, just for fun.
> 
> My on-again-off-again boyfriend and I broke up in October. In November I got back on OLD. I would not be able to count the number of conversations I had with dudes on the apps, there were just too many.
> 
> During November, December and January I went on 12 first dates with different guys. (Not including @ReformedHubby - he's in a class of his own, but also he's not from OLD  ).
> 
> Of those 12, I went on a second date with three of them. So nine of them either weren't into me, I wasn't into him, or we just immediately friend zoned each other.
> 
> On two of the second dates, the dates were nice but I discovered something about him that made me not want to continue (nothing big, just things I know aren't compatible for me).
> 
> Except the 3rd second date...he's the one (R) that then turned into a 3rd date last night and a 4th date this weekend. I'm pretty sure things are headed toward this one being my boyfriend. Woo hoo!
> 
> So it took me three months and meeting 12 guys to find a boyfriend. I have found that is about average. Or at least, that's about long and about how many dates it has taken for me to find my 2 post divorce boyfriends on OLD (met both of them on OK cupid, met this one on bumble).
> 
> I actually thought it had been longer when I was looking back at the calendar. Feels longer because I haven't had sex since October so naturally that feels like two years ago! :laugh:



LOL. I was typing my post while you were posting this one. We must be on the same wavelength. Thank you for sharing. I was beginning to wonder if my experiences were out of the norm.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> LOL. I was typing my post while you were posting this one. We must be on the same wavelength. Thank you for sharing. I was beginning to wonder if my experiences were out of the norm.


I say after a solid 6 months if you haven’t found anyone online that’s in the 5 to 10 date or boyfriend category, you give up and take a break. That’s 6 months from November or so for you, I think. You are totally on track to give no “reality” to a guy until he has been around for 3 to 5 dates.

My girlfriends and I used to have a rule. He doesn’t exist until after the 5th date. This was of course just my friends and myself who at that time were wanting an actual boyfriend. At other times, it didn’t really matter if the guy existed or not. For them especially (my ****tier girlfriends) but I’ve sewn some oats in my life, too (just not in the form of ****ing strangers on first or second dates).

So what that looks like in OLD for me is that I don’t take any guy seriously until I am organically feeling something between us, it’s not just attraction, not just chemistry, it’s more than that. I have to have a certain feeling I get when a man is a quality guy and is truly interested in me, who I am, what makes me tick. If he doesn’t care enough about me as a person to even have a glimmer of actual interest in me beyond sex, then just ew. But when he is actually into me and is a quality man who knows what he is looking for, he becomes even more attractive to me on each date.

I may kiss a guy on a first date and maybe touch each other a bit. But he still doesn’t really exist until after the 5th date. So he’s essentially a ghost until he actually exists. I assume all the ghosts will eventually ghost, and they always do (or I ghost them).

It’s all good, like you I always assume it just means they found a better match. Wish them well and move onward and upward. The more experience you get at all of this the better, and I’ll tell you why. Once you have a boyfriend, all of this stops and you will now have to think about being monogamous again yourself. No more making out with randos who don’t exist yet! Even though that is definitely not as fun as having a boyfriend, it’s still always a little anxiety provoking to take yourself off the market. There’s an ease and flow when no one exists yet.

Once they exist, real intimacy begins and that’s when you get to the good stuff, but also the important stuff. :grin2:


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I say after a solid 6 months if you haven’t found anyone online that’s in the 5 to 10 date or boyfriend category, you give up and take a break. That’s 6 months from November or so for you, I think. *You are totally on track to give no “reality” to a guy until he has been around for 3 to 5 dates.*
> 
> "No reality". I love that term. And 5 dates sounds right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what that looks like in OLD for me is that I don’t take any guy seriously until I am organically feeling something between us, it’s not just attraction, not just chemistry, it’s more than that. I have to have a certain feeling I get when a man is a quality guy and is truly interested in me, who I am, what makes me tick. If he doesn’t care enough about me as a person to even have a glimmer of actual interest in me beyond sex, then just ew. But when he is actually into me and is a quality man who knows what he is looking for, he becomes even more attractive to me on each date.
> 
> I may kiss a guy on a first date and maybe touch each other a bit. But he still doesn’t really exist until after the 5th date. So he’s essentially a ghost until he actually exists. I assume all the ghosts will eventually ghost, and they always do (or I ghost them).
> 
> It’s all good, like you I always assume it just means they found a better match. Wish them well and move onward and upward. The more experience you get at all of this the better, and I’ll tell you why. Once you have a boyfriend, all of this stops and you will now have to think about being monogamous again yourself. No more making out with randos who don’t exist yet! Even though that is definitely not as fun as having a boyfriend, it’s still always a little anxiety provoking to take yourself off the market. There’s an ease and flow when no one exists yet.
> 
> Once they exist, real intimacy begins and that’s when you get to the good stuff, but also the important stuff. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a>
> 
> 
> 
> I like all of this and agree completely.
> 
> I was listening to a dating podcast where the discussion topic was "when should you sleep with him". The answer was really simple, ""when you're doing it for you". He said you have to be ready to accept the possibility of the guy ghosting after sex.
Click to expand...


----------



## Faithful Wife

@Lila I’ve never had a guy ghost me after sex because those are only the guys who insist on having sex immediately. That’s why they are rushing it. Because they only care about “getting sex”, they don’t care about the person they are having sex with. So they want to rush to sex because that’s their only goal. Why date and get to know someone when sex is all they want from her?

But not all men are like that, and you’ll meet a man who wants to have sex but who isn’t in a rush because he actually wants to know you first. You’ll know by his actions and level of interest in you, and he will keep pursuing you, not flake off. He and you may be talking to other people, but he will lose interest in the others and focus on you. Then he will want you to stop talking to others and focus on him, and he will bring up exclusivity. 

Men like this are out there and there are actually plenty of them. It’s just that there are plenty who just want sex, too. The ones who just want sex reveal themselves almost immediately, yet they will try to use words and phrases to pretend that they are not just looking for sex. That’s another reveal. It’s different, but the sex only guys think they are acting like the boyfriend guys. They are not. Boyfriend guys will genuinely compliment you, whereas sex only guys will only flatter you. Sex only guys do not know what the difference is (since they can’t really appreciate the real you anyway). Boyfriend guys will not resort to flattery because instead they are learning things about you that actually interest them, and they will sincerely compliment you about things that make you who you are.

Every guy I’ve gone on an OLD date with, I’ve explained “what I’m looking for” enough in messaging on the app before our first meet and that I don’t have sex without an exclusive relationship. I explain what that looks like to me. They now know before date 1 that I’m not DTF, and if he “tried” (still chuckling trying to imagine what that would even look like) I would know immediately he’s a jack ass just trying to get his **** wet and prove to himself he could “change my mind”. It never happens though. My dates have all been great and are just wanting to know me to see if they want to proceed with more dates. 

There are men who understand and want for themselves what you want, and one guy in the near future will stand out above the rest, he will pursue you and you’ll be interested too. 

In another thread we were discussing the book Mars and Venus on a Date. This is not the original Mars Venus book which was mostly about married couples. The dating book covers a whole lot of things we are talking about here. It is old and out of date, and it assumes the woman’s goal is marriage. So for me I just have to listen past the marriage message and replace it with LTR in my head. But besides that, this book has gold in it, I highly recommend you get it on kindle. It’s a quick read (or audio book) but just packed with info. It’s like having a guidebook in the dark wilderness of dating. :laugh:


----------



## bkyln309

Well, I broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years. He was my first relationship post divorce. I think I am still in denial about the whole thing. I had been thinking about breaking it off due to concerns with my kids but we had a situation arise that forced the break up. 

It really hasnt hit me yet that he wont be around. I am waiting for the sadness to hit. Right now I just feel indifferent about the situation.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Wow @bkyln309, its hard to believe that its been four years! I know you had been unsure for a while. What finally forced your hand?
I'm sorry its ended up this way for you, its so hard to make this life change.


----------



## bkyln309

3Xnocharm said:


> Wow @bkyln309, its hard to believe that its been four years! I know you had been unsure for a while. What finally forced your hand?
> I'm sorry its ended up this way for you, its so hard to make this life change.


Was at home and just had a funny feeling. I got on my laptop, re-activated my Match profile and looked for his picture. Showed him currently online. I texted him about it and it denied being online or logging in. Then he switches up saying it must be from the automatic billing then saying he has never messaged anyone. Yada yada yada. Dont believe him.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bkyln309 said:


> Was at home and just had a funny feeling. I got on my laptop, re-activated my Match profile and looked for his picture. Showed him currently online. I texted him about it and it denied being online or logging in. Then he switches up saying it must be from the automatic billing then saying he has never messaged anyone. Yada yada yada. Dont believe him.




Right, the automatic billing puts you actively online. What a tool. Im so sorry!


----------



## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> Was at home and just had a funny feeling. I got on my laptop, re-activated my Match profile and looked for his picture. Showed him currently online. I texted him about it and it denied being online or logging in. Then he switches up saying it must be from the automatic billing then saying he has never messaged anyone. Yada yada yada. Dont believe him.


Oh no, that sucks! :frown2:

I do recall hearing before that match can make it look like you are online when you aren’t. At a dating forum I was on a long time ago, lots of people were having the same issue. They had disabled their profiles (or so they thought) but the program keeps them active anyway. Then if you are logged in to other things that are tied to your account somehow, it looks to others like you are logged into match. @Lila had something like this happen on her own account recently.

But...if he said it must be because of the automatic billing? Why would he still be paying for the service? Seems like he sunk himself with that comment.

Did he seem guilty....or innocent and accused?


----------



## wilson

bkyln309 said:


> I texted him about it and* it* denied being online or logging in.


It's a great sign that you're already using the impersonal pronoun of 'it' when talking about him. It shows you don't consider him as a person and you're moving on.


----------



## Laurentium

Faithful Wife said:


> I do recall hearing before that match can *make it look like you are online when you aren’t*. At a dating forum I was on a long time ago, lots of people were having the same issue. They had disabled their profiles (or so they thought) but the program keeps them active anyway.


This does especially happen with phone apps, which are quite hard to kill off!


----------



## bkyln309

Laurentium said:


> This does especially happen with phone apps, which are quite hard to kill off!


He says he doesnt have the app on his phone. He switched phones recently. We have been dating for 4 years.


----------



## bkyln309

wilson said:


> It's a great sign that you're already using the impersonal pronoun of 'it' when talking about him. It shows you don't consider him as a person and you're moving on.


That was a mistype.


----------



## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh no, that sucks! :frown2:
> 
> I do recall hearing before that match can make it look like you are online when you aren’t. At a dating forum I was on a long time ago, lots of people were having the same issue. They had disabled their profiles (or so they thought) but the program keeps them active anyway. Then if you are logged in to other things that are tied to your account somehow, it looks to others like you are logged into match. @Lila had something like this happen on her own account recently.
> 
> But...if he said it must be because of the automatic billing? Why would he still be paying for the service? Seems like he sunk himself with that comment.
> 
> Did he seem guilty....or innocent and accused?


his profile was active because I clicked on it. It was not hidden. However, it is hidden now which makes me think its impossible to be a glitch. I will say it was all the same information from 4 years ago but I find it impossible that after 4 years it still shows him active.


----------



## ReformedHubby

bkyln309 said:


> Was at home and just had a funny feeling. I got on my laptop, re-activated my Match profile and looked for his picture. Showed him currently online. I texted him about it and it denied being online or logging in. Then he switches up saying it must be from the automatic billing then saying he has never messaged anyone. Yada yada yada. Dont believe him.


Match is soooo hard to get rid of. I dropped out of OLD altogether and it made me look like a liar. It was especially bad because at the time I was pretty darn happy with whom I was dating. I eventually figured it out. Basically it tricks you into thinking you are out, but.....you're really still on there! There are few more screens/steps you need to go through to finally be done and quit permanently. With that said I don't know about the online indicator, I assume it is accurate. The issue I had was my profile was still up and searchable, and I really did think it was gone.


----------



## bkyln309

ReformedHubby said:


> Match is soooo hard to get rid of. I dropped out of OLD altogether and it made me look like a liar. It was especially bad because at the time I was pretty darn happy with whom I was dating. I eventually figured it out. Basically it tricks you into thinking you are out, but.....you're really still on there! There are few more screens/steps you need to go through to finally be done and quit permanently. With that said I don't know about the online indicator, I assume it is accurate. The issue I had was my profile was still up and searchable, and I really did think it was gone.


He admitted to being on there a few weeks ago. So its not like he wasnt ever on there while we were together. I am so disappointed. And the fact when i called him on it he made excuses.


----------



## minimalME

I find this very confusing. 

Although you can't delete a match account, you can do everything but.

When I decided to stop dating, I removed my photos, took down my write-up, changed all the preference setting to the baselines, and added a zip code that's in remote Alaska.

And I absolutely hate automatic renewals, so I always turned match's off right after I paid.

So when you say you truly thought your profile was gone, do you mean you just hid it and thought that was enough?




ReformedHubby said:


> Match is soooo hard to get rid of. I dropped out of OLD altogether and it made me look like a liar. It was especially bad because at the time I was pretty darn happy with whom I was dating. I eventually figured it out. Basically it tricks you into thinking you are out, but.....you're really still on there! There are few more screens/steps you need to go through to finally be done and quit permanently. With that said I don't know about the online indicator, I assume it is accurate. The issue I had was my profile was still up and searchable, and *I really did think it was gone.*


----------



## Ynot

bkyln309 said:


> He admitted to being on there a few weeks ago. So its not like he wasnt ever on there while we were together. I am so disappointed. And the fact when i called him on it he made excuses.


Not to excuse him in the least bit, but you were already feeling something was off. The profile just cemented a decision that you had seemed to already have made. Otherwise, you wouldn't have been looking for a reason. Don't be too bent out of shape, chalk it up to experience gained from your past and be glad you found out now instead of later.


----------



## ReformedHubby

minimalME said:


> I find this very confusing.
> 
> Although you can't delete a match account, you can do everything but.
> 
> When I decided to stop dating, I removed my photos, took down my write-up, changed all the preference setting to the baselines, and added a zip code that's in remote Alaska.
> 
> And I absolutely hate automatic renewals, so I always turned match's off right after I paid.
> 
> So when you say you truly thought your profile was gone, do you mean you just hid it and thought that was enough?


You were much more thorough than I am I guess, I believe I simply went for the option under settings to cancel/delete. It does do it, but there is one extra confirmation screen that you really need to read carefully. I took it as telling me my cancellation removal was completed, it was actually a confirmation form that I needed to accept in order to truly disappear from Match. 

With that said I definitely found it to be buggy. I had other issues as well. I could've sworn when I deactivated myself at times before I permanently left that I would go back in and find myself "active" again. Even though I never turned my profile back on, its like it would just automatically make it visible again. With that said my attention to detail on things like that isn't my strength. I barely remember the process, I do know I had issues getting out of it, and I also had issues with it activating me again when I didn't want it to.


----------



## bkyln309

Ynot said:


> Not to excuse him in the least bit, but you were already feeling something was off. The profile just cemented a decision that you had seemed to already have made. Otherwise, you wouldn't have been looking for a reason. Don't be too bent out of shape, chalk it up to experience gained from your past and be glad you found out now instead of later.



This is true.


----------



## Lila

@bkyln309, kudos for getting rid of your cheating boyfriend! He's trolling, no doubt about it. 

I did have issues with my account similar to what your ex is claiming, Match is glitchy, but anyone who wants off of there can get off. I made one phone call which took less than 5 minutes to fix the problem. If your ex were telling the truth, he would have gone to the ends of the Earth to prove he was innocent.


----------



## Lila

Duplicate


----------



## FeministInPink

@bkyln309 I'm sorry to hear this, as recovering from a failed relationship is never easy.

But I'll also say that I never felt he was the best fit for you, based on much of what you've posted here over the last four years. I believe there is someone out there who is better for you, and you deserve better.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

ReformedHubby said:


> You were much more thorough than I am I guess, I believe I simply went for the option under settings to cancel/delete. It does do it, but there is one extra confirmation screen that you really need to read carefully. I took it as telling me my cancellation removal was completed, it was actually a confirmation form that I needed to accept in order to truly disappear from Match.
> 
> With that said I definitely found it to be buggy. I had other issues as well. I could've sworn when I deactivated myself at times before I permanently left that I would go back in and find myself "active" again. Even though I never turned my profile back on, its like it would just automatically make it visible again. With that said my attention to detail on things like that isn't my strength. I barely remember the process, I do know I had issues getting out of it, and I also had issues with it activating me again when I didn't want it to.


It's made difficult and non-intuitive for a reason. It's still a business and they seem to try to do everything to get you to stay. I never enjoyed my time on it, and I always found it very suspicious it matches me with like a dozen hotties as soon as my subscription expires, and the same women disappeared as soon as I paid. 

From my experience with it the response rate on match.com I found was very low, like 12% or something but I can't remember, where as when I went on ******* the response rate was like 50% and was in contact quite easily with dates there.

Of course all of that just paled in comparison to simply walking up to a hottie and getting her number  First anniversary coming up too!


----------



## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> @bkyln309 I'm sorry to hear this, as recovering from a failed relationship is never easy.
> 
> But I'll also say that I never felt he was the best fit for you, based on much of what you've posted here over the last four years. I believe there is someone out there who is better for you, and you deserve better.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I loved him but there were concerns about a long term future. 

I am having a really emotional day today. I literally broke down in the store while helping my kids pick Vday gifts for their school crushes. Felt like an idiot bawling in aisle 4!

This is the first day I have really cried and felt very sad. Up until this point, I was pretty indifferent. He wanted to meet next week to talk but I am going no contact. I cannot handle seeing him right now.


----------



## Lila

bkyln309 said:


> I loved him but there were concerns about a long term future.
> 
> I am having a really emotional day today. I literally broke down in the store while helping my kids pick Vday gifts for their school crushes. Felt like an idiot bawling in aisle 4!
> 
> This is the first day I have really cried and felt very sad. Up until this point, I was pretty indifferent. He wanted to meet next week to talk but I am going no contact. I cannot handle seeing him right now.


I am so sorry you're going through this @bkyln309. My heart breaks for you but I applaud you on your strength even at your saddest moment. Your decision to go no contact is imo the correct one.


----------



## Lila

Question for the group.

Those of you that got divorced and dated afterwards.... Did you ever get sick of answering "why'd your marriage end?". 

I tried to keep my answer short and sweet so will to them "we drifted apart combined with lack of communication". Many think I'm minimizing the reasons or flat out lying ( some have accused me of being a WAW). I have started making stuff up like "he was bisexual and wanted to explore". THAT people believe but the real reasons, they don't.


----------



## Not

Lila said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Those of you that got divorced and dated afterwards.... Did you ever get sick of answering "why'd your marriage end?".
> 
> I tried to keep my answer short and sweet so will to them "we drifted apart combined with lack of communication". Many think I'm minimizing the reasons or flat out lying ( some have accused me of being a WAW). I have started making stuff up like "he was bisexual and wanted to explore". THAT people believe but the real reasons, they don't.


I would want more detail. I would want to know why it ended and the role the guy may have played in it. The information given is something I would take into consideration before I chose to move forward.

It’s a touchy subject and I’m not sure how I’m going to tackle that because things were bad and I don’t want to come off as someone who lays all the blame on the x. I’ve told a few people in my divorce group that things just simply died between us and that we hung on for the kids living as roommates for the past decade. That seemed to satisfy their curiosity.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Those of you that got divorced and dated afterwards.... Did you ever get sick of answering "why'd your marriage end?".
> 
> I tried to keep my answer short and sweet so will to them "we drifted apart combined with lack of communication". Many think I'm minimizing the reasons or flat out lying ( some have accused me of being a WAW). I have started making stuff up like "he was bisexual and wanted to explore". THAT people believe but the real reasons, they don't.


Why would you get sick of that question? It is an opportunity to tell your story. Be honest and tell the truth. How else do you possibly hope to expect to find someone who is compatible with you, if you start off making things up.
It really sounds as if you are not trying to live to your own expectations but to someone else's. If they don't like what you have to say, you are better off not wasting time with this person. Otherwise, if you make something up, you will always have to live with the fact that the person they are compatible with is the person you made up. 
Just be real, be honest and understand, they would not have asked if they didn't want to know. Why would you make something up if you truly wanted to attract who ever you feel you actually want.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Those of you that got divorced and dated afterwards.... Did you ever get sick of answering "why'd your marriage end?".
> 
> I tried to keep my answer short and sweet so will to them "we drifted apart combined with lack of communication". Many think I'm minimizing the reasons or flat out lying ( some have accused me of being a WAW). I have started making stuff up like "he was bisexual and wanted to explore". THAT people believe but the real reasons, they don't.




I think that is a very important question to know the answer to when you first start dating someone. If someone gave me the answer that you quoted here, I would definitely think they were hiding something, and would not be comfortable dating them further. Why don’t you want your dates to know the truth?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Those of you that got divorced and dated afterwards.... Did you ever get sick of answering "why'd your marriage end?".
> 
> I tried to keep my answer short and sweet so will to them "we drifted apart combined with lack of communication". Many think I'm minimizing the reasons or flat out lying ( some have accused me of being a WAW). I have started making stuff up like "he was bisexual and wanted to explore". THAT people believe but the real reasons, they don't.


I have a hard time describing the reasons my marriage broke up, for sure. But I manage to give enough information to make it understood. Sometimes this takes a few convos. 

My new guy R had quite a story about his divorce. Yikes. Just a straight up mid life crisis where his wife left him and their kids to chase down some youthful dreams or something. He was shaken by it, and is still bewildered by why this happened to her, but he did not want to chase her or change her mind once he realized she was truly going to abandon her own kids. He was done with her for doing that. He’s had custody ever since and she sees the kids every other weekend if she is around. 

What a **** show. But it was also at least pretty easy to describe what happened. There was a solid, definite reason to point to.


----------



## honcho

Lila said:


> Question for the group.
> 
> Those of you that got divorced and dated afterwards.... Did you ever get sick of answering "why'd your marriage end?".
> 
> I tried to keep my answer short and sweet so will to them "we drifted apart combined with lack of communication". Many think I'm minimizing the reasons or flat out lying ( some have accused me of being a WAW). I have started making stuff up like "he was bisexual and wanted to explore". THAT people believe but the real reasons, they don't.


The lines drifted apart and lack of communication only tell someone you don't want to talk about it. They are vague generalities and only make someone your interested in question the real reasons. Just be short, blunt and honest about it. If people don't believe your reasons it's irrelevant and they aren't a "long term prospect".

Making up a story only comes back to haunt you if you do get serious with someone and they learn the true reasons.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Date update: it went great! That’s all I’ll say tonight. I’m going to see him in the morning and then I’ll update after that.


----------



## Lila

3Xnocharm said:


> I think that is a very important question to know the answer to when you first start dating someone. If someone gave me the answer that you quoted here, I would definitely think they were hiding something, and would not be comfortable dating them further. Why don’t you want your dates to know the truth?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





honcho said:


> The lines drifted apart and lack of communication only tell someone you don't want to talk about it. They are vague generalities and only make someone your interested in question the real reasons. Just be short, blunt and honest about it. If people don't believe your reasons it's irrelevant and they aren't a "long term prospect".
> 
> Making up a story only comes back to haunt you if you do get serious with someone and they learn the true reasons.


But that's just it. I don't really know why my ex wanted a divorce so I go with what he has told me which is "we drifted apart over the years. We became too different to bridge the gap". I always follow up with "I think it was lack of communication". Over the years I tried everything to get him to tell me his concerns but failed". That doesn't seem to satisfy many people. They think it's a cop out answer and I'm hiding something. 

It's the simple truth. I can't tell them about the arguments because we had none. I can't tell them about abuse because there was none. I can't tell them about drug use or alcoholism because there was none. About the best I can do is tell them he checked out emotionally, had an exit affair, and asked for the divorce. But then they begin to wonder why he checked out which brings me back to drifting apart and lack of communication.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I have a hard time describing the reasons my marriage broke up, for sure. But I manage to give enough information to make it understood. Sometimes this takes a few convos.


It frustrates me to no end to know that the simple description of the truth is not good enough for most people. My ending didn't have fireworks, it slow burned. The idea of having to dissect it to come up with an explanation that will satisfy someone else's curiosity/anxiety is ridiculous IMHO. 



> My new guy R had quite a story about his divorce. Yikes. Just a straight up mid life crisis where his wife left him and their kids to chase down some youthful dreams or something. He was shaken by it, and is still bewildered by why this happened to her, but he did not want to chase her or change her mind once he realized she was truly going to abandon her own kids. He was done with her for doing that. He’s had custody ever since and she sees the kids every other weekend if she is around.
> 
> What a **** show. But it was also at least pretty easy to describe what happened. There was a solid, definite reason to point to.


Yikes! Most of the people I've met have had similar stories. Catastrophic endings to their marriages. Others were married young and didn't really know enough about life to make it last.


----------



## minimalME

Lila said:


> It frustrates me to no end to know that the simple description of the truth is not good enough for most people. My ending didn't have fireworks, it slow burned. The idea of having to dissect it to come up with an explanation that will satisfy someone else's curiosity/anxiety is ridiculous IMHO.


I completely agree with this.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> Why would you get sick of that question? It is an opportunity to tell your story. Be honest and tell the truth. How else do you possibly hope to expect to find someone who is compatible with you, if you start off making things up.
> It really sounds as if you are not trying to live to your own expectations but to someone else's. If they don't like what you have to say, you are better off not wasting time with this person. Otherwise, if you make something up, you will always have to live with the fact that the person they are compatible with is the person you made up.
> Just be real, be honest and understand, they would not have asked if they didn't want to know. Why would you make something up if you truly wanted to attract who ever you feel you actually want.


I have no issue telling the truth but it is frustrating when the truth is not salacious or spectacular enough to satisfy the audience's curiosity. 

Mine was not a dramatic marriage. I can't blame constant fighting, financial problems, bad parenting, lack of sex, emotional/physical abuse, abandonment, or drugs/alcohol use as the reason for the marriage ending. My ex did have an exit affair but I'm pragmatic enough to know he was already checked out by then and looking for a soft place to make his post-split landing. 

People seem to want a **** show a la Real Housewives of Atlanta. Mine is more like Masterpiece Theater.....bo-ring.


----------



## Lila

Not said:


> I would want more detail. I would want to know why it ended and the role the guy may have played in it. The information given is something I would take into consideration before I chose to move forward.
> 
> It’s a touchy subject and I’m not sure how I’m going to tackle that because things were bad and I don’t want to come off as someone who lays all the blame on the x. I’ve told a few people in my divorce group that things just simply died between us and that we hung on for the kids living as roommates for the past decade. That seemed to satisfy their curiosity.


 @Not, in a situation like mine where the real reason is drifting apart and lack of communication, what more information would I need to provide to make you comfortable? I'm only asking because maybe I'm not explaining myself well enough to the men in meeting. Maybe I'm not helping them understand and if I provide the right words, they would.


----------



## attheend02

Lila said:


> But that's just it. I don't really know why my ex wanted a divorce so I go with what he has told me which is "we drifted apart over the years. We became too different to bridge the gap". I always follow up with "I think it was lack of communication". Over the years I tried everything to get him to tell me his concerns but failed". That doesn't seem to satisfy many people. They think it's a cop out answer and I'm hiding something.



Is it possible that your answer above is giving the indication that you are still not over the relationship? That may prompt more questions.


----------



## Lila

attheend02 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> But that's just it. I don't really know why my ex wanted a divorce so I go with what he has told me which is "we drifted apart over the years. We became too different to bridge the gap". I always follow up with "I think it was lack of communication". Over the years I tried everything to get him to tell me his concerns but failed". That doesn't seem to satisfy many people. They think it's a cop out answer and I'm hiding something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible that your answer above is giving the indication that you are still not over the relationship? That may prompt more questions.
Click to expand...

It's possible. I make sure to preface this discussion by letting them know the marriage is over and I'm moving on but who knows. 

I'm not sure how to present the truth without it sounding like I'm hiding things, avoiding the question, or I'm still hung up on the ex.


----------



## attheend02

Lila said:


> It's possible. I make sure to preface this discussion by letting them know the marriage is over and I'm moving on but who knows.
> 
> I'm not sure how to present the truth without it sounding like I'm hiding things, avoiding the question, or I'm still hung up on the ex.


I'm with you... 

I went out on a date the other night and got rejected because I'm only separated. I really like the woman and had a great time on the date. When the reason discussion came up, she told me that she was divorced for 1 year and separated for two years before the divorce. She got teary eyed discussing it. I could tell that she wasn't really over the whole thing.... 

Its frustrating to have people project their experience and feelings on me... I guess I understand it, though.


----------



## minimalME

attheend02 said:


> I went out on a date the other night and got rejected because I'm only separated. I really like the woman and had a great time on the date. When the reason discussion came up, she told me that she was divorced for 1 year and separated for two years before the divorce. She got teary eyed discussing it. I could tell that she wasn't really over the whole thing....
> 
> Its frustrating to have people project their experience and feelings on me... I guess I understand it, though.


Are you saying that this woman was projecting and you were rejected because she hadn't yet healed from her divorce? 

As opposed to the very real possibility that she doesn't want to date a married man?


----------



## attheend02

minimalME said:


> Are you saying that this woman was projecting and you were rejected because she hadn't yet healed from her divorce?
> 
> As opposed to the very real possibility that she doesn't want to date a married man?


I think it was both. 

If I lived in another state, I would already be divorced, so to me its semantics.


I understand her reasons. I definitely do not want her to go outside her value system. That doesn't mean that I wasn't disappointed and frustrated by my own limbo situation.


----------



## Lila

attheend02 said:


> I'm with you...
> 
> I went out on a date the other night and got rejected because I'm only separated. I really like the woman and had a great time on the date. When the reason discussion came up, she told me that she was divorced for 1 year and separated for two years before the divorce. She got teary eyed discussing it. I could tell that she wasn't really over the whole thing....
> 
> *Its frustrating to have people project their experience and feelings on me... I guess I understand it, though*.


Agreed. 

I recently talked to a man on the telephone who was interested in meeting in person. He asked me about the end of my marriage to which I responded with my standard answer. He couldn't accept it at face value and kept asking more questions. He finally asked if ex had cheated to which I told him ex had had an exit affair. THAT was all he needed! He projected ALL of his serial cheating exwife's behavior onto my ex husband. He also told me that I was still processing the cheating and shouldn't be dating until I'm over it. WTF??? He couldn't accept that it wasn't the cheating that ended the marriage. There were other reasons having nothing to do with his exit affair. 

This dude was the one still processing the infidelity and divorce even though it ended over five years ago! It was pure projection. So glad I didn't waste time actually meeting this person.


----------



## minimalME

attheend02 said:


> I think it was both.
> 
> If I lived in another state, I would already be divorced, so to me its semantics.
> 
> 
> I understand her reasons. I definitely do not want her to go outside her value system. That doesn't mean that I wasn't disappointed and frustrated by my own limbo situation.


Ah. To some of us it's not semantics. You _are_ still married. 

I've been asked out by men who had 'divorced' on their profiles, only to discover on the first date that they were indeed still married. Any interest was completely shut down after that. It really pissed me off too - and took every ounce of effort to be civil till the end of the evening.

Actually, I'm not very good at pretending, so I'm sure it was quite obvious.


----------



## ConanHub

minimalME said:


> Ah. To some of us it's not semantics. You _are_ still married.
> 
> I've been asked out by men who had 'divorced' on their profiles, only to discover on the first date that they were indeed still married. Any interest was completely shut down after that. It really pissed me off too - and took every ounce of effort to be civil till the end of the evening.
> 
> Actually, I'm not very good at pretending, so I'm sure it was quite obvious.


So closed minded and prejudiced against dating married men....

What's the world coming to???:wink2:


----------



## attheend02

minimalME said:


> Ah. To some of us it's not semantics. You _are_ still married.
> 
> I've been asked out by men who had 'divorced' on their profiles, only to discover on the first date that they were indeed still married. Any interest was completely shut down after that. It really pissed me off too - and took every ounce of effort to be civil till the end of the evening.
> 
> Actually, I'm not very good at pretending, so I'm sure it was quite obvious.


Understood - On my online dating profile, I am listed as separated. I'm hoping that's why I don't get many responses... :smile2:

I met this woman at a singles meetup and we really hit it off. It was a generalized group, so I did not discuss my marital status... mistake I guess. 

I told her within 5 minutes of our date - We still had a good time, but it obviously changed the dynamic.


----------



## minimalME

ConanHub said:


> So closed minded and prejudiced against dating married men....
> 
> What's the world coming to???:wink2:


IKR???


----------



## 3Xnocharm

@Lila, no offense, but it seems like you are making excuses for your ex-husband. Why are you shouldering blame in this when he is the one who cheated and wanted out? While it is healthy to acknowledge your part in what was not working in your marriage, it’s not healthy to take the blame for someone else’s affair. It sounds like when you do tell someone about this, you for some reason are trying not to make your ex-husband out to be the bad guy. He WAS the bad guy! Are you afraid if you don’t justify his reasons for being unfaithful, that someone new is automatically going to blame you for what he did? I can pretty much guarantee that they aren’t going to. Whenever I hear about someone who was cheated on, my first thought is, what an ass, how could someone do that to you...I never think, well what did YOU do to MAKE them cheat. Your ex-husband deserves no defense or justification from you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lila

3Xnocharm said:


> @Lila, no offense, but it seems like you are making excuses for your ex-husband. Why are you shouldering blame in this when he is the one who cheated and wanted out? While it is healthy to acknowledge your part in what was not working in your marriage, it’s not healthy to take the blame for someone else’s affair. It sounds like when you do tell someone about this, you for some reason are trying not to make your ex-husband out to be the bad guy. He WAS the bad guy! Are you afraid if you don’t justify his reasons for being unfaithful, that someone new is automatically going to blame you for what he did? I can pretty much guarantee that they aren’t going to. Whenever I hear about someone who was cheated on, my first thought is, what an ass, how could someone do that to you...I never think, well what did YOU do to MAKE them cheat. Your ex-husband deserves no defense or justification from you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No offense taken @3Xnocharm. 

I've had time to reflect back on the marriage and now recognize that he'd been checked out for a long time. I do believe him when he says he'd been emotionally disconnecting for years. That's why I can't use his exit affair as the reason for the end. The lack of communication on his part, specifically his inability to communicate his needs and then his resentments, was the real reason. The cheating was just his cowardly way of getting out. 

Removing emotion from the equation, he is a weak, indecisive man with too much pride who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and therefore doesn't need help, but he's not a "bad" man. 

Talking to that guy with the serial cheating ex wife made me thankful I am not mired in the negativity. He was still holding on to the hurt from his divorce over 5 years ago. He came off as a very angry person. It was such a waste of energy and a huge turnoff. I don't want to be like that now, much less 5 years down the road.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> 3Xnocharm said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Lila, no offense, but it seems like you are making excuses for your ex-husband. Why are you shouldering blame in this when he is the one who cheated and wanted out? While it is healthy to acknowledge your part in what was not working in your marriage, it’s not healthy to take the blame for someone else’s affair. It sounds like when you do tell someone about this, you for some reason are trying not to make your ex-husband out to be the bad guy. He WAS the bad guy! Are you afraid if you don’t justify his reasons for being unfaithful, that someone new is automatically going to blame you for what he did? I can pretty much guarantee that they aren’t going to. Whenever I hear about someone who was cheated on, my first thought is, what an ass, how could someone do that to you...I never think, well what did YOU do to MAKE them cheat. Your ex-husband deserves no defense or justification from you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> No offense taken @3Xnocharm.
> 
> I've had time to reflect back on the marriage and now recognize that he'd been checked out for a long time. I do believe him when he says he'd been emotionally disconnecting for years. That's why I can't use his exit affair as the reason for the end. The lack of communication on his part, specifically his inability to communicate his needs and then his resentments, was the real reason. The cheating was just his cowardly way of getting out.
> 
> Removing emotion from the equation, he is a weak, indecisive man with too much pride who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and therefore doesn't need help, but he's not a "bad" man.
> 
> Talking to that guy with the serial cheating ex wife made me thankful I am not mired in the negativity. He was still holding on to the hurt from his divorce over 5 years ago. He came off as a very angry person. It was such a waste of energy and a huge turnoff. I don't want to be like that now, much less 5 years down the road.
Click to expand...

It’s really sad when you are dating and see all the broken hearts on the road. I mean the ones that never heal, like the guy you described. Some of them seem literally unable to move off their position and then they are just immobilized and sad forever.

My heart has been broken and I am dating others who have had theirs broken, but we aren’t broken people. Hearts do heal and sometimes you are better than new afterwards.

For other people, their misfortune becomes their new defining characteristic and they live through that pain forever. 

Very sad.

I think the angry ones are even sadder than the sullen ones. Because they drive good people away with their anger and so no one can help them past it.


----------



## Ynot

Lila said:


> I have no issue telling the truth but it is frustrating when the truth is not salacious or spectacular enough to satisfy the audience's curiosity.
> 
> Mine was not a dramatic marriage. I can't blame constant fighting, financial problems, bad parenting, lack of sex, emotional/physical abuse, abandonment, or drugs/alcohol use as the reason for the marriage ending. My ex did have an exit affair but I'm pragmatic enough to know he was already checked out by then and looking for a soft place to make his post-split landing.
> 
> People seem to want a **** show a la Real Housewives of Atlanta. Mine is more like Masterpiece Theater.....bo-ring.


Well, then too bad for them. The only thing you owe anybody is honesty, if they can't accept your honesty then you are better off without them. But you were the one who said you were sick of the question (since it is asked) and started making things up. Be yourself, everybody else is taken. If those were the reasons, then those were the reasons. Don't make someone else's problem yours.


----------



## Ynot

So on a related note, I went on two dates this weekend. I decided to dial back my expectations, based on the feedback I got from this group. Neither date went as well as I would have preferred, because I was not being myself. I was trying to be more "obliging" as some of you suggested. 
I doubt there will be a second date with either of them. So back to being myself and taking it from there, rather than laying back and not being myself.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s really sad when you are dating and see all the broken hearts on the road. I mean the ones that never heal, like the guy you described. Some of them seem literally unable to move off their position and then they are just immobilized and sad forever.
> 
> My heart has been broken and I am dating others who have had theirs broken, but we aren’t broken people. Hearts do heal and sometimes you are better than new afterwards.
> 
> For other people, their misfortune becomes their new defining characteristic and they live through that pain forever.
> 
> Very sad.
> 
> I think the angry ones are even sadder than the sullen ones. Because they drive good people away with their anger and so no one can help them past it.


Since I'm on the mobile site.... Here's a like. 

One of the unexpected benefits of getting back into dating is understanding what angry, sullen, or clingy looks like and avoiding those same behaviors in myself. It's a growing experience.


----------



## Lila

Ynot said:


> So on a related note, I went on two dates this weekend. I decided to dial back my expectations, based on the feedback I got from this group. Neither date went as well as I would have preferred, because I was not being myself. I was trying to be more "obliging" as some of you suggested.
> I doubt there will be a second date with either of them. So back to being myself and taking it from there, rather than laying back and not being myself.


Can you clarify...did these ladies enjoy the date with you? I'm trying to figure out if you're not going to ask for a second date because they didn't like your new self or because you didn't feel comfortable presenting as not the real you?

What do you mean by "obliging"?


----------



## Not

Lila said:


> @Not, in a situation like mine where the real reason is drifting apart and lack of communication, what more information would I need to provide to make you comfortable? I'm only asking because maybe I'm not explaining myself well enough to the men in meeting. Maybe I'm not helping them understand and if I provide the right words, they would.


There was a years long process that led up to the end correct? It couldn’t have been easy. Explaining what that process looked like and felt like to you over time is important information. What was done over those years in an effort to mend the relationship? Did your ex actively participate in the attempts at healing? State your reasons as to why you thought communication had become difficult. Did your ex check out long before the actual end? If so, why do you think he did? Who gave up and why? If you fought for the marriage till the bitter end that’s important information. Tell your story.

You can choose to preface the conversation with a comment about the death of your marriage being something that wasn’t explosive or very dramatic, that it was a long slow drawn out process that doesn’t make for a very dramatic story. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## notmyjamie

3Xnocharm said:


> @Lila, Are you afraid if you don’t justify his reasons for being unfaithful, that someone new is automatically going to blame you for what he did? I can pretty much guarantee that they aren’t going to. Whenever I hear about someone who was cheated on, my first thought is, what an ass, how could someone do that to you...I never think, well what did YOU do to MAKE them cheat. Your ex-husband deserves no defense or justification from you.


New to the forum and newly separated. Hope it's okay to jump into this thread. I think most people who have been cheated on worry that when other people learn of it they'll think they must be lacking in some way and that's why the spouse cheated. I felt that way when it happened to me. There must be something wrong with me or that I'm just not enough and here's the proof and now everyone knows it too. But, when I hear of others getting cheated on, I never think the BS is lacking, I think the cheater is lacking in integrity, morals, and is just a jerk.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> No offense taken @3Xnocharm.
> 
> I've had time to reflect back on the marriage and now recognize that he'd been checked out for a long time. I do believe him when he says he'd been emotionally disconnecting for years. That's why I can't use his exit affair as the reason for the end. The lack of communication on his part, specifically his inability to communicate his needs and then his resentments, was the real reason. The cheating was just his cowardly way of getting out
> .



But if he hadn’t had the affair, you’d still be there in the “marriage”, sludging through the drudgery day after day. He should have ended it instead of doing what he did, he knew his own unhappiness. It’s ok to present it to someone that your husband adding a third person to the marriage is what ended it. You can go into more detail about the decline of the relationship as things go along. 

Regarding my last marriage, when I get asked what happened I say, he dumped me to remarry his ex wife. That usually ends that conversation at that point. I will go into more detail about the mistake that was my last marriage when it comes back up, but being blunt about the end.. people get it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

notmyjamie said:


> New to the forum and newly separated. Hope it's okay to jump into this thread. I think most people who have been cheated on worry that when other people learn of it they'll think they must be lacking in some way and that's why the spouse cheated. I felt that way when it happened to me. There must be something wrong with me or that I'm just not enough and here's the proof and now everyone knows it too. But, when I hear of others getting cheated on, I never think the BS is lacking, I think the cheater is lacking in integrity, morals, and is just a jerk.



Normal people don’t think to blame the victim. If they do, there is your red flag to flap you out the door. 

Trust me I have felt like a failure. But realistically I should never have been in that marriage to begin with. Epic mistake of my life. But him being a sleaze ended it. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

Regardless of what happened and to who, the fact is that most people are looking to find out how you got here. And probably more importantly, what have you learned along the way.


----------



## Ynot

notmyjamie said:


> New to the forum and newly separated. Hope it's okay to jump into this thread. I think most people who have been cheated on worry that when other people learn of it they'll think they must be lacking in some way and that's why the spouse cheated. I felt that way when it happened to me. There must be something wrong with me or that I'm just not enough and here's the proof and now everyone knows it too. But, when I hear of others getting cheated on, I never think the BS is lacking, I think the cheater is lacking in integrity, morals, and is just a jerk.


It is absolutely okay to jump into this forum. 
But one thing I would like to comment on concerning your post is that it isn't just infidelity that makes one feel they may have been lacking and that is what caused it. It is also the simple fact that the marriage "failed" as that also causes this sort of blaming yourself and the resultant feelings of not being worthy or good enough.
It does take sometime to get over those feelings. It also takes time to realize that most healthy people don't really care about what happened, but more so about what you learned and how you have responded to what happened.


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## Faithful Wife

Update: I do officially have a boyfriend. Woot! 

We had a great, long date last night and then a breakfast date this morning. Lots of talking and making out and more. He’s definitely got the feels for me, and my feels are coming along nicely. 

This part tends to make me nervous, because what happens next is unknown. He is at the place in his life where he is able to do what he wants, move anywhere, and he doesn’t have any roots here. He’s been here for about 10 years but he hates the weather (which sucks 9 months out of the year, I hate it, too and I was raised here). He’s from Chicago and has also lived in Canada so he’s decided before he met me he is going to move to warmer weather. His kids are almost done with high school and I think he will have his next destination decided by the time his kids graduate. 

I can’t think of moving for at least 10 years. And even then, if I actually left my job at that point I wouldn’t have as much security for myself to feel comfortable moving, I pretty much have to finish out my career at my company to have the best possible retirement. So I get nervous because he is ready for his next adventure and wants a relationship to go with it...but that probably can’t be me. 

I have had a boyfriend for less than 24 hours and am already nervous about the future. Ha ha! We did talk about exactly that, though. About how I’m not able or ready for more than just a boyfriend right now and for a long time. He said he gets it and I think he does. But we will see going forward. 

We talked more (mostly he did) about not seeing others and not being on the apps. I assured him I have no interest in talking to anyone else and am just focused on him to see where it’s going. We talked about several other things that we have in common that we felt alignment with.

A funny part, he said when he first was checking out my profile, and I have the same pic on here, of me in a T-shirt next to the wing of a white 1970 Superbird, he said I looked like I might be a nascar fan and therefore, he was afraid I might be extremely conservative (I only recently actually have had any knowledge of nascar but suddenly have been immersed in that culture and it’s true that most are conservatives). Now that he’s met me, we had a good laugh about it, he said I’m probably the most liberal person he’s ever met. His profile actually says he is “moderate”. I’m not sure what that means to him but we seemed to line up nicely. 

He’s definitely not as liberal as I am in the sexual arena, but he is well within the ballpark to mesh well with me (and not be freaked out by me). He’s been naughty in his ways, different than mine. But we shared a few good stories and laughed at ourselves and each other. We are at the point of self awareness, which is the best place. I don’t foresee any problems there.

I will see him this week for dinner and then this weekend. On the weekend, I’m supposed to go to a car show out of town (with my car and my brother) which is a huge pain in the ass and I’m hoping the weather will make it not possible to go. But if we do go, R will come to the town where the show is and see me. He will also get to see the car that way, which he wouldn’t get to do for another several weeks if we don’t go to the show. Even better is when I can take him for a ride in the car, but seeing it displayed in a show first will still be incredible for him. Then also he would meet my brother and possibly one of my kids. 

If we can’t go to the car show, then I’ll go to his place next weekend. That would be preferable but not a disaster if we can’t make it happen. It would just mean we would have to wait another 2 weekends for him to have a kid free one. 

That’s my update! I feel good, kind of melty and swoony but I’ve got my feet on the ground.


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## Ynot

FW, maybe you shouldn't be worrying about what happens next and just enjoy the moment. People can and do change their minds all the time because of changes in circumstances in their life.
OTOH, enjoy watching left turns for four hours. Oh and the occasional pile up.


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## AVR1962

Ynot said:


> So on a related note, I went on two dates this weekend. I decided to dial back my expectations, based on the feedback I got from this group. Neither date went as well as I would have preferred, because I was not being myself. I was trying to be more "obliging" as some of you suggested.
> I doubt there will be a second date with either of them. So back to being myself and taking it from there, rather than laying back and not being myself.


Think of it this way....if there is not a spark or connection at least you had the company and the chance to converse which is something we are very much lacking today with everyone plugged into their phones. If neither materializes into anything it was experience and practice, something to work on as far as technique. That right person will come along and you will both feel it but you do have to keep putting yourself out there. I think what we have to tell ourselves is that the right person is out there, we just have to find them. When we are rejected or we are not feeling it from another person it is because it is not the right person. I have had so many lady friends just give up and then they are lonely. You can't give up, you have to keep up that search and in this time and age with everything being online and communicating thru text it makes it all alot harder to make a true connection.


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## Ynot

AVR1962 said:


> Think of it this way....if there is not a spark or connection at least you had the company and the chance to converse which is something we are very much lacking today with everyone plugged into their phones. If neither materializes into anything it was experience and practice, something to work on as far as technique. That right person will come along and you will both feel it but you do have to keep putting yourself out there. I think what we have to tell ourselves is that the right person is out there, we just have to find them. When we are rejected or we are not feeling it from another person it is because it is not the right person. I have had so many lady friends just give up and then they are lonely. You can't give up, you have to keep up that search and in this time and age with everything being online and communicating thru text it makes it all alot harder to make a true connection.


That is all true, but I am not really bothered one way or the other. I merely mentioned it, because it was topical to the subject being discussed (a member making things up) as well as to another recent discussion in which I accused of projecting, having issues or a sense of entitlement. At least when someone rejects me, I know it because of who I am and that they want something different. But when I try to be someone else, they aren't rejecting me, they are rejecting the some one else I am presenting to them. If nothing else, it just reinforced my own opinion to just be yourself. Just as you are not obliged to live with someone else's choices, no one is obliged to live by yours.


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## Faithful Wife

Tonight I have my first date with R as my boyfriend. Tee hee! He has been texting me regularly, telling me how happy he is that we met and how he can't wait to see me and other stuff. We are just going out to dinner, just happy to see each other and have some good food. It is a nice slow cooking yummy warm feeling with him so far. I know this weekend we will get some more intimate time, which is awesome but I'm also not feeling all antsy like I sometimes do. I look forward to it but I'm not bouncing off the walls for once. He has a nice, cool energy which I like and I think it works well with my more fiery energy, keeps us both warm, not too hot not too cold.


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## Faithful Wife

Hello?? Where are all my other singles??!

Ok had a great date with my new boyfriend. We met at this awesome Portland place I had never been to, which he picked. It was just perfect. So amazingly Portland. I am impressed that he found a place that was so great.

We sat and talked for 2 hours about lots of things. Race issues, our kids, our cities and culture (which is a bit different as he lives in the suburbs). Our philosophies, our history, our current situations. At one point we were talking about the future and how our kids were going to be able to survive and whether they are strong enough or not, and some guy who was playing pool near us was eavesdropping and at one point he said to us “hey I’m sorry I’m eavesdropping but I’m totally engrossed in your conversation right now and it’s making me wish I was part of it”. We chuckled and said he could join it if he wanted but he said no, what you two are saying is more interesting than what he would have to input.

Soon after we wrapped up our conversation and he walked me to my car. I’m going to his place on Friday for the first time and we are both looking forward to that. He doesn’t have his kids, and I hope I can spend the night with him but it depends on whether or not I have a friend who can stay with my mom. If I don’t, then I can go to his place but will have to come home around midnight. But if my friend can stay with mom then I’ll get to spend the night and wake up in his arms. I hope that works out...if it doesn’t it will be a couple more weeks until it can.

He walked me to my car with lots of kisses and we said we are happy about Friday even if I cant stay and we both expressed how much we look forward to it.

I know we have other date updates out here...where is everyone??


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## Ynot

Faithful Wife said:


> I know we have other date updates out here...where is everyone??


I would post some of mine, but I don't want to be accused of projection or having issues or feeling entitled. Otherwise I am happy for you.


----------



## lifeistooshort

3Xnocharm said:


> But if he hadn’t had the affair, you’d still be there in the “marriage”, sludging through the drudgery day after day. He should have ended it instead of doing what he did, he knew his own unhappiness. It’s ok to present it to someone that your husband adding a third person to the marriage is what ended it. You can go into more detail about the decline of the relationship as things go along.
> 
> Regarding my last marriage, when I get asked what happened I say, he dumped me to remarry his ex wife. That usually ends that conversation at that point. I will go into more detail about the mistake that was my last marriage when it comes back up, but being blunt about the end.. people get it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is how I feel about my ex. His communications with his ex gf and the way he handled my finding out was the last drop in the bucket.

There were many things I wasn't really happy with, but I needed that last drop to push me over the edge. 

Otherwise I'd still be chugging along, so he really did me a favor.

Lila, you may come to the same conclusion if you haven't already.


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## RandomDude

Well, this is just great! My f------ bed is broken. 

The whole frame collapsed while sleeping talk about a rude f------ awakening. Tried to fix it but it's still slanted on one corner and it feels weird to sleep on.

I don't have the patience for this >.< Like WTF

/end vent


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## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> Well, this is just great! My f------ bed is broken.
> 
> 
> 
> The whole frame collapsed while sleeping talk about a rude f------ awakening. Tried to fix it but it's still slanted on one corner and it feels weird to sleep on.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have the patience for this >.< Like WTF
> 
> 
> 
> /end vent




Dude...the glass is half-full. Have some kinky/angry slanted sex with your lady on it before you fix it. This actually happened to me one time. You’ll thank me later 


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## Ms. Hawaii

RandomDude said:


> Well, this is just great! My f------ bed is broken.
> 
> 
> 
> The whole frame collapsed while sleeping talk about a rude f------ awakening. Tried to fix it but it's still slanted on one corner and it feels weird to sleep on.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have the patience for this >.< Like WTF
> 
> 
> 
> /end vent




Are you sure you were JUST sleeping?


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## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Well, this is just great! My f------ bed is broken.
> 
> The whole frame collapsed while sleeping talk about a rude f------ awakening. Tried to fix it but it's still slanted on one corner and it feels weird to sleep on.
> 
> I don't have the patience for this >.< Like WTF
> 
> /end vent


I'm a tad confused.

You have money. You go to the bed store. You pick out a new bed. They deliver it to your house. In the meantime you pull the mattress onto the floor and take the broken bed out to the garage.

Not sure why this requires patience?


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## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm a tad confused.
> 
> 
> 
> You have money. You go to the bed store. You pick out a new bed. They deliver it to your house. In the meantime you pull the mattress onto the floor and take the broken bed out to the garage.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why this requires patience?




I can’t imagine why you left out the kinky sex on the broken bed first. And on Valentines Day no less. SMH




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> I can’t imagine why you left out the kinky sex on the broken bed first. And on Valentines Day no less. SMH


Just assumed that was what broke the bed and that it would be an ongoing problem.

So add in, need to research more durable beds. :laugh:


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## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> Just assumed that was what broke the bed and that it would be an ongoing problem.
> 
> 
> 
> So add in, need to research more durable beds. :laugh:




Box springs and mattress on the floor. Like way back when you couldn’t afford a frame. Best. Sex. Ever. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

Elizabeth001 said:


> Box springs and mattress on the floor. Like way back when you couldn’t afford a frame. Best. Sex. Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Wellll...there was that one time at band camp...

 I’m going to bed now

 cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

I can't do anything about the bed until this weekend, so it's the worst week for this to happen >.<!

As for more durable beds, metal and springs are noisy! I never liked it -_-

I had a nice stylish wooden frame I didn't expect it would snap like that! It's quite sad. Cause I had this frame for years! Also the more stable wooden frames are too low! Which... you know, cancels out some positions... for sleeping of course. BAH!

/end vent >.<


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## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> I can't do anything about the bed until this weekend, so it's the worst week for this to happen >.<!
> 
> As for more durable beds, metal and springs are noisy! I never liked it -_-
> 
> I had a nice stylish wooden frame I didn't expect it would snap like that! It's quite sad. Cause I had this frame for years! Also the more stable wooden frames are too low! Which... you know, cancels out some positions... for sleeping of course. BAH!
> 
> /end vent >.<


Sex problems.


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## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Sex problems.


Sleeping problems, thought I fixed it but then it slowly gave way and we slided to one corner of the bed and the slantness triggered her vertigo of all things -_-

Furniture shopping it is... *sigh*


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## Sue4473

No updates as of yet- 
May meet up with that guy who I’ve been chatting with. He’s not the type I usually go for and I think it’s because his look is more feminine instead of the bearded muscular man look that I typically go for lol.
He’s not ugly per say, but just has a softer look. But our convos are good, and I will try and see if we mesh if we meet today.


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## Faithful Wife

I went to R’s house for the first time on Friday night. It was a nice visit, his kids were at moms. We share a lot of the same spiritual beliefs, so we talked about that for a long time. It’s pretty obscure, what we are both into, so it was fascinating talking to anyone else about it. Someone who understands is hard to find.

I don’t see any red flags, and I do see and feel a lot of desire to keep following down this path to see where it goes.

We can only do once or twice a week for now. Once the weather is better, I will be out and around more often (which means more time available to drive out to his place). And I assume eventually I would meet his kids if we keep hanging out, which means I could maybe stay at his place even on weekends that they are there.

He talked again about moving in summer 2020. He doesn’t know where to yet. I asked if he moved far away, would he be willing to date me long distance? He said sure, yes, and that he knows I can’t move in the near future even though he may, and that he is interested in me anyway. I was just trying to gauge if he is looking for a girlfriend until then or a woman to take with him. I think he’s open to anything that feels right, and currently what we are having feels right. 

We talked a lot about space (!!). I love space and talking about it, and so does he! I’ve got no special education in anything space related, I just think it’s beautiful and endlessly fascinating. So does he! I have an app called Night Sky which shows you everything in space, near or far. I showed him my app and he was immediately fascinated by it and downloaded it. I showed him a little about how it works. I have been lost for hours and hours in space through this app, and it is so interesting, amazing and fascinating. When I left his place he texted me later saying he was lost in space at that time and would be for hours. 

Things like that make this feel like the right path to be on for now.

I’ll see him again this week for dinner. Not sure if we will be able to have any alone time this weekend but will be patient about it. We can at least go on a date and keep finding cool things to talk about.


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## Not

My dating adventures continue! I joined Plenty of Fish Friday night and went on my first date Sunday evening. I wasn’t super attracted to the guys pictures but he wasn’t ugly by any means so I told myself maybe he’d be ok in person and his personality seemed great during our messaging. So we meet and he looked better in his pictures but I told myself maybe his personality would be fantastic. Ugh. Nope. His personality was so dominating and controlling I literally couldn’t get a word in edge wise. He was literally cutting me off everytime I spoke. AND, twice he reached over and tried to rub my back. AND, he went into explicit details of some of his sexual escapades which included stories of STD’s!!! I have never in my life been so happy to be safe back in my own home. 

Major lesson learned! Be prepared for anything and never give to much info right away, which I did not do but for sure will not be doing from here on forward. I felt disgusted by the fact that he touched me! I wanted to shower and scrub myself clean of him and all day today as I drove around town I found myself looking for his car worried I would run into him. He messaged me this morning and I told him he should never ever touch a woman without her permission, that there was no better way to cause a women to feel fear, then I blocked him. 

This experience had me really questioning this whole OLD thing but then I got angry about the whole thing and decided I wouldn’t let this creep ruin it for me. 

I now have another date planned for this Saturday coming up. I spoke with this guy for about an hour and a half on the phone and he sounds so blessedly normal! And intelligent! And he’s funny as hell! When I first read his profile I was laughing out loud, his personality seems so great! He’s attractive in a rough and rugged kind of way. Think craggy Irish kind of looks and built like a bull. But looks, for me, come secondary to what’s inside anyway so with a personality like his, if he’s legit, he’s going to look great to me. 

It’s been a crazy couple of days dipping my toes into the world of OLD!


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## 3Xnocharm

Not, I hope your next date is better than that disaster first one! Wow, he sounds downright scary! Not a great intro into the already bizarre world of OLD lol... Good for you for getting out there!


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## AVR1962

I have been dating the same man for 1 1/2 years now, time flies!!!! What I can say after 24 years of marriage and now single & dating is that I am happy to have left my marriage and never anticipated what I have discovered in the single life of today. However, as different as it has been for me, I also see relationships in a different light. No longer do I feel I "need" someone in my life so I can appreciate my time with someone and leave it at that. If it develops into something more than it does and if not I can move. Valentine's day boyfriend sent me 2 dozen roses and a card that would make your heart melt. He came over Saturday when I was done with work and just relaxed, watched a movie and laughed. It feel nice after all the years of feeling rejected in my marriage.


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## 3Xnocharm

@AVR1962 I think thats fabulous! Im so happy for you!


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## Faithful Wife

I don't have much to update. But I do feel a need for a break from the board. 

I'll be back....


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## bkyln309

Was wondering what happened with Ynot since he hasnt been posting? Why did he get banned?


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## Elizabeth001

bkyln309 said:


> Was wondering what happened with Ynot since he hasnt been posting? Why did he get banned?




Check out the banned members thread. 


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## bkyln309

Elizabeth001 said:


> Check out the banned members thread.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Oh i forgot about that! Thanks!


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## sosotte

Hi everyone. Haven't been reading in a long time, had a lot to catch up on!
So I'm still single, and raising my son alone, he's almost 1.5 already now. After he was born, I couldn't find the time or energy to date, but I hired a nanny a few months back and started going out again with friends and went on a few OLD dates. Every person I meet seems to me so sad and depressed, needy and pathetic. I've only had had bad experiences and horrible dates (maybe 25 first dates in total, and only one 4 months relation). 
So after this fiasco, I've decided to do a IUI to have a second child and live my life as a single person for now. I don't want it to stop me from having more kids, since it's my dream, and I don't want to have a child with a random guy from a bar either. 
The only cool person I've been hanging out with is a FWB, but he already has two kids and doesn't wasn't anymore (even had a vasectomy), and on my side, I really want more, so we kind of agreed that it wasn't meant to be, although we decided this when I thought I would meet someone on OLD in no time. Now I'm thinking that I like him more than a friend, but I'm not sure if it's just because I'm desperate. I don't want to admit it to him anyway and lose him, as he's the one keeping me sane, but it sucks.


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## 3Xnocharm

sosotte said:


> So after this fiasco, I've decided to do a IUI to have a second child and live my life as a single person for now. I don't want it to stop me from having more kids, since it's my dream, and I don't want to have a child with a random guy from a bar either.
> The only cool person I've been hanging out with is a FWB, but he already has two kids and doesn't wasn't anymore (even had a vasectomy), and on my side, I really want more, so we kind of agreed that it wasn't meant to be, although we decided this when I thought I would meet someone on OLD in no time. Now I'm thinking that I like him more than a friend, but I'm not sure if it's just because I'm desperate. I don't want to admit it to him anyway and lose him, as he's the one keeping me sane, but it sucks.


Im not sure what an IUI is? 

If you think you are feeling anything for this FWB dude, you need to let him go. He cannot provide what you want for the future, which is another child, so this would be a complete waste of your time and emotion. I doubt these are real feelings, but as you mentioned, you feeling desperate. This would not be the man to cling to.


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## sosotte

IUI is intrauterine insemination, so it means I'm doing this baby alone with an anonymous sperm donor


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## 3Xnocharm

Thanks for clarifying!


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## bkyln309

Where is everyone? Missing our regulars and YNOT is banned. 

No new news here. Trying to make it work with my boyfriend. Not sure its going to make a difference. Other than that, work is crazy busy, kids are good.


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## 3Xnocharm

bkyln309 said:


> Where is everyone? Missing our regulars and YNOT is banned.
> 
> No new news here. Trying to make it work with my boyfriend. Not sure its going to make a difference. Other than that, work is crazy busy, kids are good.


Is this the one you just broke up with?? As long as you havent been happy in the relationship...I think you know how this is going to go...


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## Ms. Hawaii

bkyln309 said:


> No new news here. Trying to make it work with my boyfriend. M.




Jesus...,


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## bkyln309

3Xnocharm said:


> Is this the one you just broke up with?? As long as you havent been happy in the relationship...I think you know how this is going to go...


Yes, well, he is trying. We are on a wait and see type of relationship. He knows I am very unsure.


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## 3Xnocharm

bkyln309 said:


> Yes, well, he is trying. We are on a wait and see type of relationship. He knows I am very unsure.


But hasnt the majority of your relationship over the last couple years been "wait and see?" I was thrilled for you when you were finally free.


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## bkyln309

3Xnocharm said:


> But hasnt the majority of your relationship over the last couple years been "wait and see?" I was thrilled for you when you were finally free.




Me too honestly! He is traveling the next few weeks so hopefully I can have a clear mind


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2&out

He doesn't need to do much. He has proven experience that whatever he is doing is good enough to keep bkyln309 around. She may threaten to end the relationship but he knows she doesn't really mean it and he can get her back.


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## wilson

I was at the gym recently and overheard two women talking about one of the guys working out. They were saying he was cute, and one women told the other to go over and say hi. The woman replied, *"I don't date guys at the gym. If we break up, I don't want to have to give up this gym."*

How big of a concern is that? Does anyone else not date people from their favorite hangout (gym, bar, bookstore, etc) to avoid having custody disputes about who gets to keep going there after the breakup?


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## 3Xnocharm

wilson said:


> I was at the gym recently and overheard two women talking about one of the guys working out. They were saying he was cute, and one women told the other to go over and say hi. The woman replied, *"I don't date guys at the gym. If we break up, I don't want to have to give up this gym."*
> 
> How big of a concern is that? Does anyone else not date people from their favorite hangout (gym, bar, bookstore, etc) to avoid having custody disputes about who gets to keep going there after the breakup?


LOL I have never personally done this, but it is kind of a concern for me as I contemplate breaking up. I dont want to give up going to the places we go regularly together, but I also wouldnt want to chance seeing him there either! Do I go? Do I not? ACK.


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## Lila

Hey everybody, it's been a while since I'd dropped by. Thought I'd something that happened to me Friday night. 

Went to a Meetup at a local watering hole downtown with a group made up of predominantly 20-30 somethings. Even with the age difference, I have made some pretty good friends in this group. At the very least, the millennials drama is always entertaining. Hey, don't judge me... it was Friday night and I didn't have a date. 

About an hour into this shin dig, an attractive man in his mid 40s (he was 46) approaches my little group and starts making small talk. Even though he looked heavier than his profile pics, I recognized him right away as one of the two men who I reached out to first on Match. I was outside his desired age range (21-40 year olds) but figured I'd give it a shot anyways. He checked out my profile but never responded. No biggie.

Anyway, he immediately angles towards me and starts chatting me up. I found it hilarious that this guy thought I was much younger than I am. I guess the saying "you are the company you keep" is somewhat true. I didn't tell him his assumptions were wrong and just let him go on and on and on. He was so full of ****; I am surprised horse flies weren't circling him. He was laying it on thick and yes, I was totally encouraging it. About 30 minutes into it, I look up his profile on Match, show it to him, tell him I'm 44 and say that I'm way too old for him. 

The look on his face was priceless. He tried so hard to convince me that it was a glitch, and when that didn't work he tried to butter me up with compliments. By then my favorite 35 year old "friend" had shown up and was looking for my undivided attention. Apparently I like younger guys too. 


Aside from the Friday night fun times, I am still seeing Alma Mater and Big Country. Had a little bit of hiccup with Big Country over the weekend which made me realize that I don't want anything serious at this point in my life. I hope we can stay friends but understand if that's not possible.


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## bkyln309

Lila said:


> Hey everybody, it's been a while since I'd dropped by. Thought I'd something that happened to me Friday night.
> 
> Went to a Meetup at a local watering hole downtown with a group made up of predominantly 20-30 somethings. Even with the age difference, I have made some pretty good friends in this group. At the very least, the millennials drama is always entertaining. Hey, don't judge me... it was Friday night and I didn't have a date.
> 
> About an hour into this shin dig, an attractive man in his mid 40s (he was 46) approaches my little group and starts making small talk. Even though he looked heavier than his profile pics, I recognized him right away as one of the two men who I reached out to first on Match. I was outside his desired age range (21-40 year olds) but figured I'd give it a shot anyways. He checked out my profile but never responded. No biggie.
> 
> Anyway, he immediately angles towards me and starts chatting me up. I found it hilarious that this guy thought I was much younger than I am. I guess the saying "you are the company you keep" is somewhat true. I didn't tell him his assumptions were wrong and just let him go on and on and on. He was so full of ****; I am surprised horse flies weren't circling him. He was laying it on thick and yes, I was totally encouraging it. About 30 minutes into it, I look up his profile on Match, show it to him, tell him I'm 44 and say that I'm way too old for him.
> 
> The look on his face was priceless. He tried so hard to convince me that it was a glitch, and when that didn't work he tried to butter me up with compliments. By then my favorite 35 year old "friend" had shown up and was looking for my undivided attention. Apparently I like younger guys too.
> 
> 
> Aside from the Friday night fun times, I am still seeing Alma Mater and Big Country. Had a little bit of hiccup with Big Country over the weekend which made me realize that I don't want anything serious at this point in my life. I hope we can stay friends but understand if that's not possible.


Hilarious!! Good for you for knocking him down a few notches.


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## lifeistooshort

Lila, that's a funny story.

I know a lot of great people use OLD, but I've never liked the shopping nature of it. When you meet people you develop a human connection, but online you can basically shop for what you want....whether what you want is reasonable or not. 

But it does give you an interesting look into what people think they're entirely to and what they really want. 

This 46 year old imagines he's entitled to 20 somethings.... and that says a lot about him. Such a guy isn't good partner material.

But I'm admittedly biased by my ex seeking out much younger women as I had a front row seat to the issues behind it. 

If I saw such a big age range, I'd have no interest even if I fell in the top end of it because I'd assume he really wanted much younger but settled for me after he couldn't get much younger. 

At 44 I'm much more interested in an early 50 something year old man looking for women not less than 10 years his junior.


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## john117

What we need is OLD people reviews... 5 hearts, 4, 3... Extra sprinklers for 3rd base, 2nd, etc.


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## john117

lifeistooshort said:


> Lila, that's a funny story.
> 
> 
> 
> I know a lot of great people use OLD, but I've never liked the shopping nature of it. When you meet people you develop a human connection, but online you can basically shop for what you want....whether what you want is reasonable or not.
> 
> 
> 
> But it does give you an interesting look into what people think they're entirely to and what they really want.
> 
> 
> 
> This 46 year old imagines he's entitled to 20 somethings.... and that says a lot about him. Such a guy isn't good partner material.
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm admittedly biased by my ex seeking out much younger women as I had a front row seat to the issues behind it.
> 
> 
> 
> If I saw such a big age range, I'd have no interest even if I fell in the top end of it because I'd assume he really wanted much younger but settled for me after he couldn't get much younger.
> 
> 
> 
> At 44 I'm much more interested in an early 50 something year old man looking for women not less than 10 years his junior.


Way too young for me . 44 means energy, hope, and long term prospects. Plus expectations. 

Men aren't as realistic as they should be. 44 to 54 is a bigger gap than I would think.


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## minimalME

Ages ago, when I first tried OLD, you could do this on OKC. People could post who they went out with (link to the user), talk about what they did, and rating was an option.

It was actually a great site at first. There was a forum like this one where people could post and get to know one another. It had a lot of great features that the other sites I tried didn't have. 

Then slowly over time, they stripped each section away till it was of no interest anymore. I did make genuine friends on there though - men I still talk to.




john117 said:


> What we need is OLD people reviews... 5 hearts, 4, 3... Extra sprinklers for 3rd base, 2nd, etc.


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## john117

Darn. Think of the data mining we could do there...


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## Livvie

john117 said:


> lifeistooshort said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lila, that's a funny story.
> 
> 
> 
> I know a lot of great people use OLD, but I've never liked the shopping nature of it. When you meet people you develop a human connection, but online you can basically shop for what you want....whether what you want is reasonable or not.
> 
> 
> 
> But it does give you an interesting look into what people think they're entirely to and what they really want.
> 
> 
> 
> This 46 year old imagines he's entitled to 20 somethings.... and that says a lot about him. Such a guy isn't good partner material.
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm admittedly biased by my ex seeking out much younger women as I had a front row seat to the issues behind it.
> 
> 
> 
> If I saw such a big age range, I'd have no interest even if I fell in the top end of it because I'd assume he really wanted much younger but settled for me after he couldn't get much younger.
> 
> 
> 
> At 44 I'm much more interested in an early 50 something year old man looking for women not less than 10 years his junior.
> 
> 
> 
> Way too young for me . 44 means energy, hope, and long term prospects. Plus expectations.
> 
> Men aren't as realistic as they should be. 44 to 54 is a bigger gap than I would think.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with energy, hope, long term prospects and expectations? My boss recently got (re) married at 62. He and his wife are having a grand old time, living life together, moving in together, and making the house theirs, going on long trips. They had a great time planning their wedding. He was very excited about it. He's incredibly happy and having a ton of fun.


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## FeministInPink

@Lila Good on you!

I think @john117 hits the nail on the head when he says that many men have unrealistic expectations. When we first broke up, my XH was going after all these super hot 20-somethings (I was 34 at the time, he was an overweight, balding 39), which of course went nowhere. He eventually wised up and lowered his expectations to what he could actually attain.

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## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> @Lila Good on you!
> 
> I think @john117 hits the nail on the head when he says that many men have unrealistic expectations. When we first broke up, my XH was going after all these super hot 20-somethings (I was 34 at the time, he was an overweight, balding 39), which of course went nowhere. He eventually wised up and lowered his expectations to what he could actually attain.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 Most of my desirable single male friends are in their 50s and dating late 20s or early 30s. They wont even consider a woman pushing 50.


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## lifeistooshort

bkyln309 said:


> Most of my desirable single male friends are in their 50s and dating late 20s or early 30s. They wont even consider a woman pushing 50.


I don't know what circles you run in but most of the guys I know have comparatively aged partners.

My ex was 50 to my 31 when we got together, and I've since learned that a lot of people in the running community (we're both runners) who knew us thought it was weird (both men and women).

The guys you speak of aren't desirable if what you want is a partner. They don't want a partner.... they want an ego boost.

I'm dating a 53 year old and he seems quite happy with me being 44 (not that it matters much but I'm almost 45).

I've had pretty good interest from good, athletic men in their 40's and 50's. Some older then that but I'm never dating someone more then 10 years older again.


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## minimalME

Or in my situation, they'd push to have sex, and when they could see I was in no rush, they'd not contact me anymore.

The impression I consistently got from men my age was: (1.) How much BS are you willing to tolerate, and (2.) How long are you going to make me wait for sex?

First dates were basically to size me up and see if I looked my profile photos. And then once I was deemed tolerably ****able, the date suggestions became hotel rooms, trips, weekends at their home, etc.

So 'dating' didn't really exist for me toward the end. There was no relational aspect to it at all. It was purely transactional.




bkyln309 said:


> Most of my desirable single male friends are in their 50s and dating late 20s or early 30s. They wont even consider a woman pushing 50.


----------



## bkyln309

Educated, fit and wealthy professional men in my city are not dating at the same age. Wish it were different but no! Two have married the younger woman (Man is 52,wife 29 and man 70 married wife 35). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort

bkyln309 said:


> Educated, fit and wealthy professional men in my city are not dating at the same age. Wish it were different but no! Two have married the younger woman (Man is 52,wife 29 and man 70 married wife 35).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're not going to get mental or emotional partners from guys like that. They are emotionally stunted and like the power imbalance that comes with a much younger woman...it feeds their ego.


Went through it with the ex.....have the tshirt.

Men who want an actual partner are going to crave common experiences.

And the wives are stupid....I know because I was where they are. Right now they see dollar signs and stability, but eventually they'll realize just how stupid it was to marry these guys. They'll be in the prime of their lives and will be sleeping next to grandpa.


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## Lila

I really can't cast stones against the guy from Friday night. I think I have shamefully acquired a taste for younger men. They aren't exactly my ideal target age group but boy are they fun! and I'm not talking about sexy fun either (haven't gone there yet). 

Maybe I'm just immature and can relate better to 30 something year old guys. Who knows. Big Country is late 40s and Alma Mater is mid 50s and they say they are attracted to my fun loving personality. Makes them feel young. I just wish they could let the inner kid out more often.


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## 2&out

Interesting reading. Looks like Lila might be seeing some of why. Why do some guys prefer/want younger women ? Many reasons. But fun, macho hey see this babe ?, less pressure to impress, and the same age ones may poo poo but sometimes they seem happy/want to be with more prosperous experienced guy and happy to hang on our arm. Yes that makes us feel good. Why not do if can ? We can all lie to ourselves that our same age bodies are just as hot - but they are not. So sharing it with a better one is huge in the feel good about self/confidence IMO. Maybe vain - but real.


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## john117

bkyln309 said:


> Most of my desirable single male friends are in their 50s and dating late 20s or early 30s. They wont even consider a woman pushing 50.


I cringe to think that my older daughter would be targeted by 50 year olds... She's 26 now and her honorary fiance is 24.... 

The RIGHT 50 or 60 year old is as elusive as Nessie...


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## john117

minimalME said:


> Or in my situation, they'd push to have sex, and when they could see I was in no rush, they'd not contact me anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> The impression I consistently got from men my age was: (1.) How much BS are you willing to tolerate, and (2.) How long are you going to make me wait for sex?
> 
> 
> 
> First dates were basically to size me up and see if I looked my profile photos. And then once I was deemed tolerably ****able, the date suggestions became hotel rooms, trips, weekends at their home, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> So 'dating' didn't really exist for me toward the end. There was no relational aspect to it at all. It was purely transactional.


I knew I should have used the McMansion for all it was worth before we sold . I got more puns from my work people about that than anything else...


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## Lila

2&out said:


> Interesting reading. Looks like Lila might be seeing some of why. Why do some guys prefer/want younger women ? Many reasons. But fun, macho hey see this babe ?, less pressure to impress, and the same age ones may poo poo but sometimes they seem happy/want to be with more prosperous experienced guy and happy to hang on our arm. Yes that makes us feel good. Why not do if can ? We can all lie to ourselves that our same age bodies are just as hot - but they are not. So sharing it with a better one is huge in the feel good about self/confidence IMO. Maybe vain - but real.


I think the difference is that while I enjoy spending time with younger men, my preference is still to date and enter into a relationship with men my own age. Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats the emotional connection/intimacy that comes with being with someone who relates to my life experience. Someone who is at a similar place in life both physically and emotionally. 

IME, men who date younger women exclusively could really give a crap about emotionally connecting to these women. Yet they will gladly enter into relationships with them without having an ounce in common. 

MF35 (my favorite 35) is super fit, he's tall, he's got money, he's fun, he's sexy but he still can't make me feel vulnerable and safe like men my own age. MF35 is fun when we happen to run into each other at the same events. He would never be someone I'd consider dating seriously.


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## 2&out

Do you think that is maybe how Alma Mater maybe feels also ? He's like what - 10 or more years older than you ? Do you feel the same as you posted about him as a man as he is seeing/dating/hanging with a 10+ yr younger woman ?


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## Lila

2&out said:


> Do you think that is maybe how Alma Mater maybe feels also ? He's like what - 10 or more years older than you ? Do you feel the same as you posted about him as a man as he is seeing/dating/hanging with a 10+ yr younger woman ?


Yep. I know exactly why Alma Mater is dating me.


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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> Most of my desirable single male friends are in their 50s and dating late 20s or early 30s. They wont even consider a woman pushing 50.


Well, my XH didn't fall into the desirable single demographic, LOL!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> I think the difference is that while I enjoy spending time with younger men, my preference is still to date and enter into a relationship with men my own age. Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats the emotional connection/intimacy that comes with being with someone who relates to my life experience. Someone who is at a similar place in life both physically and emotionally.
> 
> IME, men who date younger women exclusively could really give a crap about emotionally connecting to these women. Yet they will gladly enter into relationships with them without having an ounce in common.
> 
> MF35 (my favorite 35) is super fit, he's tall, he's got money, he's fun, he's sexy but he still can't make me feel vulnerable and safe like men my own age. MF35 is fun when we happen to run into each other at the same events. He would never be someone I'd consider dating seriously.


Real Estate was 10/11 yrs my senior, and we were still able to establish a solid emotional connection. That being said, he never struck me as the type to intentionally/exclusively seek out younger women. Age never really presented much of a problem, except the stereotype that older men are much more set in their ways and less adaptable to change and this was certainly true of him. However, knowing him, I think this is more an attribute to his personality than his age.

I prefer dating someone closer to my own age; Real Estate was certainly the exception, and he had to earn it, definitely. When I retire, I want someone who will be able to travel and do fun things with me... I don't want to spend the good years of my retirement taking care of someone who is in failing health because he is so much older. 

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## Not

My date with Mr. Craggy Irish fell completely flat. He was super witty and fun over the phone but he completely froze up when we met in person. He did warn me before we met that he gets stage fright and boy did he ever. He keeps looking at my profile on POF but has stayed silent since our date. I’m not interested in playing counselor for him though to try and pull some reasons out of him. Onward and upward. 

Had a date with Mr. Harley Tattoo guy last weekend. He was attractive in his pictures and really friendly over the phone albeit a little needy for attention. So we meet for dinner and he looks quite a bit heavier in person. Come to find out he used to be 300 pounds and has battled his way down quite a bit and does look much better than when he was heavy. He showed me pictures. Needless to say I was miffed at the lack of honesty in his profile. He had a good personality though and will make someone else very happy someday! 

Tonight I’m going out with Mr. John Deer lol! He’s had a fascination with farming and tractors since he was little and farms a small piece of land he rents and this is in addition to working a full time job. He’s got spunk and a fiery personality and is the first one I’ll be meeting who isn’t religious or into politics, big plus. He told me to check him out on Facebook and his pics there match the pics on his profile, thank god! He’s a good looking guy for 48, he’s aged well. And he’s got a full head of hair lol! Yeah! My ex had the toilet bowl thing going on. I’m going into this with eyes wide open though and not getting myself worked up like I did with the last one.

My boss and I talk about online dating, he’s been single for about 15 years. We’ve decided it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack. There are lots of people out there so it’s easy to get dates but it’s not easy finding someone you want to go out with and even harder to find someone you click with but it’s even harder to meet people out in the wild so online dating it is, at least for now.


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## Lila

Dang @Not. How are you finding all these guys online? I could barely eek out the few I did meet when I was on Match.


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## Not

Lila said:


> Dang @Not. How are you finding all these guys online? I could barely eek out the few I did meet when I was on Match.


I’m on Plenty of Fish, maybe it’s busier than Match? Not sure because I haven’t tried Match yet but want to soon. I don’t know if the platforms are similar or possibly completely different. POF has a free version you can try out. I paid for two months of upgraded membership which has more perks than the free version.


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## Emerging Buddhist

Perhaps you are looking too hard?

A battle of ego and spirit.


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## RandomDude

Just came back from watching Captain Marvel, was alot of fun. 

It seems to be getting alot of hate for being a "feminist" film however. I can't even see that, like how what where why when? Normally I'm quite perceptive of these things but either I'm blind to it now or people are trolling.


----------



## Sue4473

Ok- I had a impromptu meeting with this guy that I’ve chatted with and met with couple years ago. We started chatting again, and met for a couple of drinks last night. 
The convo and laughs seem to flow as we have similar humor. 
I’m not sure I want to rip his clothes off, but maybe that will happen as I get to know him more? My experience has been that when the attraction is high, then the compatibility and more deep convos are at a low. At this point in my life, I’m wanting someone that I can have those interesting and deep conversations while going out and having fun with new experiences!
So we will see!
I have to admit- it’s been awhile since I’ve felt special, and he seemed real attentive and remembered some conversations that we had in the past.


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## john117

I somehow stumbled upon a dating site for people from my birth country... Let's pretend the 45 year old divorced physician in Florida that looks like Liza Minnelli is real 

Darn. I should go back to teaching college...


----------



## Not

This online dating thing is so many things all rolled up into one. Crazy because some guys have been anything but sane. Guys in bunny suits and care bear costumes, guys asking me if I’m into pegging, guys getting angry when I tell them they live to far away (one guy told me I must think I’m a bad ass and only date movie stars, wth? ), a guy showing up in my town after I told him he lived to far away. Online dating def has a dark side.

Then there’s the sad side. So many lonely people genuinely seeking a good partner. I hate that I have to tell these seemingly genuine people no. Men who’s sincerity and honesty really shows through but they don’t have what a lot of women are looking for, or at least what I’m looking for. I really hate that part of it, it drags me down.

There have been really good experiences too. I’ve had some great conversations with some of these men. Just really down to earth talks that show me OLD does have it’s good side, it takes some digging to find these guys though and then both sides feel let down because of distance but if there are good ones that are to far there have got to be good ones that are near too. Just gotta cross fingers that our paths will cross.


----------



## Wolf1974

Hey all,


So I have been gone awhile,busy with life and work after my promotion. So announcement time for me I am going to finally purpose to my GF of almost 6 years. Something happened recently that finally made me see some things clearly about me, her and about what I really want. For those of you I have shared more with you know that I have been back and forth on this for the last two years. It’s funny when you finally make the decision that has taken so much of your thought process you wonder why you just didn’t see it sooner, make the decision quicker. Oh well I guess what is important is that I got there and she waited until I did.

Next month we are going. To NYC and driving up to maine. I plan to purpose at a lighthouse which is her favorite thing. 

Now I am a mess trying to figure out rings. Ugh wish me luck everyone lol


----------



## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> This online dating thing is so many things all rolled up into one. Crazy because some guys have been anything but sane. Guys in bunny suits and care bear costumes, guys asking me if I’m into pegging, guys getting angry when I tell them they live to far away (one guy told me I must think I’m a bad ass and only date movie stars, wth? ), a guy showing up in my town after I told him he lived to far away. Online dating def has a dark side.
> 
> Then there’s the sad side. So many lonely people genuinely seeking a good partner. I hate that I have to tell these seemingly genuine people no. Men who’s sincerity and honesty really shows through but they don’t have what a lot of women are looking for, or at least what I’m looking for. I really hate that part of it, it drags me down.
> 
> There have been really good experiences too. I’ve had some great conversations with some of these men. Just really down to earth talks that show me OLD does have it’s good side, it takes some digging to find these guys though and then both sides feel let down because of distance but if there are good ones that are to far there have got to be good ones that are near too. Just gotta cross fingers that our paths will cross.




You’re making me remember why I shut my POF down. Thank you! lol


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----------



## wilson

Wolf1974 said:


> Next month we are going. To NYC and driving up to maine. I plan to purpose at a lighthouse which is her favorite thing.


Congratulations! That's great news. It's okay to take your time to come to the right conclusion. 

If you're going to propose at a lighthouse, is there a way you can interweave your relationship with that theme when you propose? For example, when you're at the lighthouse, say how she is like your beacon that keeps you from harm and always brings you home safely. Or something like that since you'll be at a romantic, memorable place and it will make it more impactful.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Congratulations Wolf, that’s so exciting! So happy for you!


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----------



## Wolf1974

wilson said:


> Congratulations! That's great news. It's okay to take your time to come to the right conclusion.
> 
> If you're going to propose at a lighthouse, is there a way you can interweave your relationship with that theme when you propose? For example, when you're at the lighthouse, say how she is like your beacon that keeps you from harm and always brings you home safely. Or something like that since you'll be at a romantic, memorable place and it will make it more impactful.


Yeah no that wouldn’t work for me. Good suggestion though but if I started talking like that she would call 911 thinking I was having a stroke or something lol :surprise:


----------



## Not

Elizabeth001 said:


> You’re making me remember why I shut my POF down. Thank you! lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Elizabeth, have you tried Match also? If so, are they comparable?


----------



## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> Elizabeth, have you tried Match also? If so, are they comparable?




Both owned by the same company 


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----------



## Not

Elizabeth001 said:


> Both owned by the same company
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well that’s not good news lol!


----------



## FeministInPink

@Wolf1974 Congrats! I'm so happy for you, she really sounds like a gem.

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----------



## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> @Wolf1974 Congrats! I'm so happy for you, she really sounds like a gem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Thank you. She really is !


----------



## Not

I’m going to try to form coherent sentences but may fail lol! I’m super excited! I just met the most awesome person ever! He’s freaking fabulous! He messaged me on POF last night, we texted a little off and on today and he asked me to dinner tonight. I’m so glad I said yes! I could sit and listen to this guy talk for hours. 

We talked a lot about fear and how life has a funny way of leading us to everything we need at each and every point in our lives. How things can seem so bad and make us so angry but those very things are always exactly what we need to lead us to where we’re going. How once you begin to see that’s how life works life then begins giving (gifting really) over and over. 

My jaw was in my lap because we share so many of the same thoughts on so many things. It felt surreal, like this couldn’t be happening but it was. 

I still feels like it’s to good to be true but damn if I’m not going to pursue this guy!


----------



## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> I’m going to try to form coherent sentences but may fail lol! I’m super excited! I just met the most awesome person ever! He’s freaking fabulous! He messaged me on POF last night, we texted a little off and on today and he asked me to dinner tonight. I’m so glad I said yes! I could sit and listen to this guy talk for hours.
> 
> 
> 
> We talked a lot about fear and how life has a funny way of leading us to everything we need at each and every point in our lives. How things can seem so bad and make us so angry but those very things are always exactly what we need to lead us to where we’re going. How once you begin to see that’s how life works life then begins giving (gifting really) over and over.
> 
> 
> 
> My jaw was in my lap because we share so many of the same thoughts on so many things. It felt surreal, like this couldn’t be happening but it was.
> 
> 
> 
> I still feels like it’s to good to be true but damn if I’m not going to pursue this guy!




Need follow up report!



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----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> I still feels like it’s to good to be true but damn if I’m not going to pursue this guy!


It usually is, so keep your wits about you as you pursue!  Exciting though that you feel you finally connected with someone!


----------



## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> It usually is, so keep your wits about you as you pursue!  Exciting though that you feel you finally connected with someone!


Oh yeah, I’ll be keeping my eyes wide open and observing him very closely.


----------



## FeministInPink

Not said:


> I’m going to try to form coherent sentences but may fail lol! I’m super excited! I just met the most awesome person ever! He’s freaking fabulous! He messaged me on POF last night, we texted a little off and on today and he asked me to dinner tonight. I’m so glad I said yes! I could sit and listen to this guy talk for hours.
> 
> 
> 
> We talked a lot about fear and how life has a funny way of leading us to everything we need at each and every point in our lives. How things can seem so bad and make us so angry but those very things are always exactly what we need to lead us to where we’re going. How once you begin to see that’s how life works life then begins giving (gifting really) over and over.
> 
> 
> 
> My jaw was in my lap because we share so many of the same thoughts on so many things. It felt surreal, like this couldn’t be happening but it was.
> 
> 
> 
> I still feels like it’s to good to be true but damn if I’m not going to pursue this guy!


Isn't that the best, when everything just seems to click click click? I hope this works out for you 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Not

Argh, super cool guy but I can’t give him what he wants. He decided, spur of the moment, to fly out of state this weekend for kicks and giggles and expects to find someone who can up and leave on a whim with him. He does this sort of thing a lot. He wants a relationship but with someone who’s not as tied down as I am. Poo.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> Argh, super cool guy but I can’t give him what he wants. He decided, spur of the moment, to fly out of state this weekend for kicks and giggles and expects to find someone who can up and leave on a whim with him. He does this sort of thing a lot. He wants a relationship but with someone who’s not as tied down as I am. Poo.




Bummer. I met a fella on POF that wanted me to spend the money I had saved to stabilize and reside my garage (the whole thing was in shambles) to accompany him to his yearly spring trip to the Bahamas. How foolish of an idea. That would have been so irresponsible of me. So yeah...that didn’t go anywhere  BUT...my garage is bangin’! Hahaaa 


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----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> Argh, super cool guy but I can’t give him what he wants. He decided, spur of the moment, to fly out of state this weekend for kicks and giggles and expects to find someone who can up and leave on a whim with him. He does this sort of thing a lot. He wants a relationship but with someone who’s not as tied down as I am. Poo.


Well crap. Yeah most of us are not able to do that. 

NEXT.


----------



## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Well crap. Yeah most of us are not able to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT.


Agreed. Most people have obligations and responsibilities... because they are adults.

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----------



## Not

So I’ve discovered something new about myself. I’m now talking with a new guy. He contacted me on POF. He’s wealthy. Owns a house on the beach, wines and dines clients for his employer for a living, fancy sports cars and all that. This bothers me. I think I’m discovering that I see myself as uncultured and/or less refined I guess. I can’t see myself in that world.

He seems down to earth and has been nothing but a gentleman but I’ve never been around that kind of lifestyle and feel like a bumpkin in comparison. I cuss and only wear jeans and t-shirts and know nothing about wine and listen to alternative metal. I drive a jeep.

I know wealthy people can be normal, down to earth great people too but this is really bothering me. I shouldn’t be this uncomfortable.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not, I am EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. I wouldn’t be comfortable either, that kind of lifestyle is no where near who I am. I think it’s why I’ve had such a struggle finding my match. 


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----------



## Lila

@Not don't feel bad. I think we all have our quirks and for some of us (cough, cough, me, cough) they aren't even logical. For example, one of the first people I met when I was online dating told me he got tested for STDs every quarter and in between sexual partners. I couldn't help but be totally turned off. On the one hand, it is great that he is so responsible. On the other, I couldn't help but think he was sticking it into everything with a pulse (which is completely illogical of course).


----------



## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> Not, I am EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. I wouldn’t be comfortable either, that kind of lifestyle is no where near who I am. I think it’s why I’ve had such a struggle finding my match.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s how I feel too, like it’s not who I am but then I ask myself why can’t I just be me within that? I don’t know if it’s me being self conscious or what.


----------



## Not

Lila said:


> @Not don't feel bad. I think we all have our quirks and for some of us (cough, cough, me, cough) they aren't even logical. For example, one of the first people I met when I was online dating told me he got tested for STDs every quarter and in between sexual partners. I couldn't help but be totally turned off. On the one hand, it is great that he is so responsible. On the other, I couldn't help but think he was sticking it into everything with a pulse (which is completely illogical of course).


Oh me me, I’ve got a pulse! Lol! Totally kidding! 😆 

Yeah, it’s illogical and I can’t figure it out. He’s a nice guy, kind of old fashioned actually, so what’s my problem? I dunno.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> That’s how I feel too, like it’s not who I am but then I ask myself why can’t I just be me within that? I don’t know if it’s me being self conscious or what.




Yes, I have that exact same thought myself! Material things just are not that important to me, and I find that the people who do put value on those things, their personalities don’t jive with mine. Don’t get me wrong, I do for example have a hobby collection that I would love to add to whenever I felt like it lol, but big houses, fancy cars, expensive restaurants… Those things just aren’t important to me. Being able to follow your passions would be nice. I don’t know, maybe it’s having struggled financially my entire adult life that makes me this way. My experience with men seems to be one end of the spectrum or the other… Either I find superficial and vain with money, or I find lazy and broke lol! Surely there are men out there in that happy medium!


----------



## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> Yes, I have that exact same thought myself! Material things just are not that important to me, and I find that the people who do put value on those things, their personalities don’t jive with mine. Don’t get me wrong, I do for example have a hobby collection that I would love to add to whenever I felt like it lol, but big houses, fancy cars, expensive restaurants… Those things just aren’t important to me. Being able to follow your passions would be nice. I don’t know, maybe it’s having struggled financially my entire adult life that makes me this way. My experience with men seems to be one end of the spectrum or the other… Either I find superficial and vain with money, or I find lazy and broke lol! Surely there are men out there in that happy medium!


Same. I can get by with very little and not feel like I’m missing out on anything. The wealthy lifestyle is so foreign, like it’s another planet altogether. I wonder though if I’m assuming some things.

I don’t know this guy very well but he does sound lonely and talks about how hard it is to meet people in our age range and seems genuine but at the same time there seems to maybe an almost unconscious privileged flavor to some of his statements. He drives a new corvette and says fast cars are one of his favorite things. I don’t know how to take that. I don’t know if it’s coming from a sense of privilege or if it’s something that just truly makes him giddy. Maybe he has a genuine appreciation and feels grateful for what he has. He has said it’s taken him 30 years to get where he’s at.

And is having that kind of money necessarily a bad thing? As in, does it automatically mean this guy is going to be a pretentious prick? I dunno. 

All I know is that I feel that I don’t belong in that club.

Oh, and I wouldn’t want to be seen inside that corvette. What the heck does *that* mean?


----------



## Blondilocks

Not said:


> Oh me me, I’ve got a pulse! Lol! Totally kidding! 😆
> 
> Yeah, it’s illogical and I can’t figure it out. He’s a nice guy, kind of old fashioned actually, so what’s my problem? I dunno.


Your problem may be that you are seeing a red flag. The guy put it all out there rather than meeting you first before revealing. It could be his insecurities or he's just way too proud of his monetary accomplishments. It smacks of bragging and is off-putting. Besides, crawling in and out of a corvette is just not dignified (nor, particularly comfortable) when you're in your fifties. He has a little maturing to do.


----------



## attheend02

Blondilocks said:


> Your problem may be that you are seeing a red flag. The guy put it all out there rather than meeting you first before revealing. It could be his insecurities or he's just way too proud of his monetary accomplishments. It smacks of bragging and is off-putting. * Besides, crawling in and out of a corvette is just not dignified (nor, particularly comfortable) when you're in your fifties. He has a little maturing to do.*


This is disappointing to hear... I've always dreamed of owning a Corvette 

But ... its good that there are woman out there that aren't overly impressed by the moneyed life. Looking forward to meeting one!


----------



## RandomDude

I'm having a midlife crisis and want me a car that puts me in a rollercoaster everytime I get off the lights. Like the new Tesla roadster that goes 0-100 in 1.9 seconds.










2 SECONDS AINT GOOD ENOUGH! 
I want more Gs than a space shuttle! 

BUT!
... with four doors!
... and four wheel steering!
... and all wheel drive!

... which doesn't exist 

Why can't they make a decent super-sedan?! I NEED da four doors


----------



## 2&out

RD - they do except for the 4 wheel steering. It's been tried, failed, so no one does and IMO never will. Tesla S P90 Ludicris has everything you asked for. If you want to downgrade in 0-60 performance Ferrari and Bentley make bad ass 4 door super sedans also. Maybe a dumb question but have you ever been in a car that does 0-60 MPH in under 4 seconds ? IMHO there is like zero reason anything faster would be wanted, desirable, usable unless it is strictly for the drag strip.

A personal opinion on bragging rich guy. That is odd and IMO pretty major red flag. Confident "normal" guys of means usually wait and try to get to know a potential romantic partner before exposing. If the relationship progresses in a satisfactory way the financial position reveals itself. It is something to keep quiet - not advertise. However... I don't know the online dating world. Never have done. So I could be totally off base. I do kind of enjoy reading about it though.


----------



## 2&out

Other... lol. IMO Corvettes are great. But lousy early date cars.


----------



## Laurentium

3Xnocharm said:


> Being able to follow your passions would be nice. ...
> My experience with men seems to be one end of the spectrum or the other… Either I find superficial and vain with money, or I find lazy and broke lol! Surely there are men out there in that happy medium!


Hmm. I am a different combination. I follow my passion. So, I am not superficial or vain; I don't have any money; I'm not lazy, I work hard; and I don't have any time to date. (And I don't have a car, or a television.) And I am happy.


----------



## Elizabeth001

RandomDude said:


> I'm having a midlife crisis and want me a car that puts me in a rollercoaster everytime I get off the lights. Like the new Tesla roadster that goes 0-100 in 1.9 seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 SECONDS AINT GOOD ENOUGH!
> I want more Gs than a space shuttle!
> 
> BUT!
> ... with four doors!
> ... and four wheel steering!
> ... and all wheel drive!
> 
> ... which doesn't exist
> 
> Why can't they make a decent super-sedan?! I NEED da four doors




Dang RD...the last time we heard much from you, I could have sworn you would be asking about minivans. 


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----------



## Not

2&out said:


> RD - they do except for the 4 wheel steering. It's been tried, failed, so no one does and IMO never will. Tesla S P90 Ludicris has everything you asked for. If you want to downgrade in 0-60 performance Ferrari and Bentley make bad ass 4 door super sedans also. Maybe a dumb question but have you ever been in a car that does 0-60 MPH in under 4 seconds ? IMHO there is like zero reason anything faster would be wanted, desirable, usable unless it is strictly for the drag strip.
> 
> *A personal opinion on bragging rich guy. That is odd and IMO pretty major red flag. Confident "normal" guys of means usually wait and try to get to know a potential romantic partner before exposing. If the relationship progresses in a satisfactory way the financial position reveals itself. It is something to keep quiet - not advertise. However... I don't know the online dating world. Never have done. So I could be totally off base. I do kind of enjoy reading about it though*.


To the bolded, yes, I think that’s it. You would think he’d keep the info to himself so as to avoid hooking up with a gold digger. So to me the advertising kind of reeks of attention seeking.


----------



## john117

2&out said:


> Other... lol. IMO Corvettes are great. But lousy early date cars.


I'll marry the woman who'll be impressed with my next car, next year hopefully... 2020 Mini Cooper JCW. Finally... 

Interestingly enough, the one woman I have in mind - but she swore off dating long ago - drives a Fiat 500. And she's not size 4... 

Oh well.


----------



## FeministInPink

john117 said:


> I'll marry the woman who'll be impressed with my next car, next year hopefully... 2020 Mini Cooper JCW. Finally...
> 
> Interestingly enough, the one woman I have in mind - but she swore off dating long ago - drives a Fiat 500. And she's not size 4...
> 
> Oh well.


I drive a Fiat 500, and I LOVE it! I like Mini Coopers, too. That would have been my alternate choice, except that I don't like the layout of the dash.

I've never been impressed by flashy cars. My best friend had to get a new car last year, when his [11-year-old] Infiniti was totaled. He got a brand new, top of the line Audi with all the bells and whistles. His monthly car payment is insane. And I'm like, who needs all this stuff? It has a built in GPS, but he still insists on plugging in his phone and using his phone GPS simultaneously. If you're gonna do that, then why get a car with a built in GPS? SMH.

I feel like there are better ways to use money. At least with my friend, I know he'll keep this car as long as possible. He would have kept the Infiniti at least another 5 years if someone hadn't hit him.

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----------



## RandomDude

2&out said:


> RD - they do except for the 4 wheel steering. It's been tried, failed, so no one does and IMO never will. Tesla S P90 Ludicris has everything you asked for. If you want to downgrade in 0-60 performance Ferrari and Bentley make bad ass 4 door super sedans also. Maybe a dumb question but have you ever been in a car that does 0-60 MPH in under 4 seconds ? IMHO there is like zero reason anything faster would be wanted, desirable, usable unless it is strictly for the drag strip.


Yes under 4 seconds in an Evo! Since my crisis I'm also considering getting the STI. Both quite cheap at ~50K, the Tesla S I'm looking at yes, because it's the sexiest sedan I can think of, more on the pricey range from ~100k to 150k and performance is similar to the Evo and STI already - I don't care about it being electric or auto-driving (which I will never support!). But if the roadster had 4 doors I'm getting it for ~200K which is insanely cheap for a supercar (Wait... it's not out yet, so I'm guessing 350-400K AUD? >.< But still!) Even McLarens do it in ~2.5 seconds not under 2!

I don't know what's happening to me and why I'm becoming an adrenaline monkey on the road, hang gliding isn't fast enough even, I want to start flying jets lol

I want Gs!




Silly title it's under 2 seconds not 15 -.- But that's the best quality video I've seen of the launch.

I wanna be on a ROLLER COASTER everytime I wake up on the way to work, even though likely I would be 0-60 KM only, as a "law-abiding citizen" hehe... but if I can accelerate in around 1 second it would make my commute much less dull hahaha. My dream car has 4 wheel steering too, because I like to do illegal U-turns and a small turning circle is a big plus for me  I've driven 3000GTs and Preludes with it so it does make a difference for me - I'm too much of a dreamer!

Maybe I need a custom car built lol


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> I drive a Fiat 500, and I LOVE it! I like Mini Coopers, too. That would have been my alternate choice, except that I don't like the layout of the dash.
> 
> I've never been impressed by flashy cars. My best friend had to get a new car last year, when his [11-year-old] Infiniti was totaled. He got a brand new, top of the line Audi with all the bells and whistles. *His monthly car payment is insane. And I'm like, who needs all this stuff?* It has a built in GPS, but he still insists on plugging in his phone and using his phone GPS simultaneously. If you're gonna do that, then why get a car with a built in GPS? SMH.
> 
> *I feel like there are better ways to use money. *At least with my friend, I know he'll keep this car as long as possible. He would have kept the Infiniti at least another 5 years if someone hadn't hit him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


That was my mentality for the majority of my life. This is why whatever is happening to me is definitely a mid-life crisis!


----------



## Blondilocks

RandomDude said:


> Yes under 4 seconds in an Evo! Since my crisis I'm also considering getting the STI. Both quite cheap at ~50K, the Tesla S I'm looking at yes, because it's the sexiest sedan I can think of, more on the pricey range from ~100k to 150k and performance is similar to the Evo and STI already - I don't care about it being electric or auto-driving (which I will never support!). But if the roadster had 4 doors I'm getting it for ~200K which is insanely cheap for a supercar (Wait... it's not out yet, so I'm guessing 350-400K AUD? >.< But still!) Even McLarens do it in ~2.5 seconds not under 2!
> 
> I don't know what's happening to me and why I'm becoming an adrenaline monkey on the road, hang gliding isn't fast enough even, I want to start flying jets lol
> 
> I want Gs!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7qkO0C10cw
> Silly title it's under 2 seconds not 15 -.- But that's the best quality video I've seen of the launch.
> 
> I wanna be on a ROLLER COASTER everytime I wake up on the way to work, even though likely I would be 0-60 KM only, as a "law-abiding citizen" hehe... but if I can accelerate in around 1 second it would make my commute much less dull hahaha. My dream car has 4 wheel steering too, because I like to do illegal U-turns and a small turning circle is a big plus for me  I've driven 3000GTs and Preludes with it so it does make a difference for me - I'm too much of a dreamer!
> 
> Maybe I need a custom car built lol


You're quite settled in with girlfriend and you're scared crapless. You are dreaming of escaping at break neck speed. haha


----------



## Blondilocks

3Xnocharm said:


> Yes, I have that exact same thought myself! Material things just are not that important to me, and I find that the people who do put value on those things, their personalities don’t jive with mine. Don’t get me wrong, I do for example have a hobby collection that I would love to add to whenever I felt like it lol, but big houses, fancy cars, expensive restaurants… Those things just aren’t important to me. Being able to follow your passions would be nice. I don’t know, maybe it’s having struggled financially my entire adult life that makes me this way. My experience with men seems to be one end of the spectrum or the other… Either I find superficial and vain with money, or I find lazy and broke lol! Surely there are men out there in that happy medium!


It looks like you haven't closed the chapter on your current wannabe love interest. You're not getting any younger, girl.:grin2:


----------



## ReformedHubby

2&out said:


> Other... lol. IMO Corvettes are great. But lousy early date cars.


I can relate to this. I didn't actually have a car that was a good "early" date car when I was dating. I picked up a woman I met via OLD and we went out for drinks and appetizers. We got along well, but for me the attraction level just wasn't there. But...we did have good conversation, so we were out for a while. When I dropped her off I gave her a hug and a quick kiss. She looked at me and said, "this is the nicest Chrysler I have ever been in". I smiled and thanked her for the compliment. It wasn't a Chrysler though. It was my Aston Martin. I got a chuckle out of that. Certainly wasn't offended or anything like that, I didn't even bother to clarify. I actually thought it was cool that she cared so little about cars. Definitely not a gold digger.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Blondilocks said:


> It looks like you haven't closed the chapter on your current wannabe love interest. You're not getting any younger, girl.:grin2:


The sad part of this statement is that my wannabe love interest is currently my boyfriend.  And yep, not getting any younger for sure, LOL... I know, I need to do something...


----------



## RandomDude

Blondilocks said:


> You're quite settled in with girlfriend and you're scared crapless. You are dreaming of escaping at break neck speed. haha


LOL hahahahahaaha :rofl:

Ok that's funny, but nah not escaping anytime soon lol


----------



## honcho

RandomDude said:


> Yes under 4 seconds in an Evo! Since my crisis I'm also considering getting the STI. Both quite cheap at ~50K, the Tesla S I'm looking at yes, because it's the sexiest sedan I can think of, more on the pricey range from ~100k to 150k and performance is similar to the Evo and STI already - I don't care about it being electric or auto-driving (which I will never support!). But if the roadster had 4 doors I'm getting it for ~200K which is insanely cheap for a supercar (Wait... it's not out yet, so I'm guessing 350-400K AUD? >.< But still!) Even McLarens do it in ~2.5 seconds not under 2!
> 
> I don't know what's happening to me and why I'm becoming an adrenaline monkey on the road, hang gliding isn't fast enough even, I want to start flying jets lol
> 
> I want Gs!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7qkO0C10cw
> Silly title it's under 2 seconds not 15 -.- But that's the best quality video I've seen of the launch.
> 
> I wanna be on a ROLLER COASTER everytime I wake up on the way to work, even though likely I would be 0-60 KM only, as a "law-abiding citizen" hehe... but if I can accelerate in around 1 second it would make my commute much less dull hahaha. My dream car has 4 wheel steering too, because I like to do illegal U-turns and a small turning circle is a big plus for me  I've driven 3000GTs and Preludes with it so it does make a difference for me - I'm too much of a dreamer!
> 
> Maybe I need a custom car built lol


Just get yourself a crotch rocket and have 2 wheel fun. A hayabusa or ninja will do sub 2 all day long and you'll scare yourself silly before you ever reach the top end.


----------



## RandomDude

honcho said:


> Just get yourself a crotch rocket and have 2 wheel fun. A hayabusa or ninja will do sub 2 all day long and you'll scare yourself silly before you ever reach the top end.


But... I like cars


----------



## Blondilocks

RandomDude said:


> LOL hahahahahaaha :rofl:
> 
> Ok that's funny, but nah not escaping anytime soon lol


Glad to hear it. Wonder what brought on your early onset mid-life crisis - could it be you're expecting to hear the pitter-patter of little feet in the not-so-distant future? You two will make beautiful babies.


----------



## RandomDude

Blondilocks said:


> Glad to hear it. Wonder what brought on your early onset mid-life crisis - could it be you're expecting to hear the pitter-patter of little feet in the not-so-distant future? You two will make beautiful babies.


Later! Much later for kids of our own lol

Right now trying to plan out living together, also planning our first property at a later date if it all goes well. Our anniversary coming soon as well


----------



## AVR1962

I love my Mercedes convertible!!!!!!


----------



## FeministInPink

Guys, I had the craziest night at the bookstore last night! Crazy in a good way.

I had not one, but THREE customers clearly flirting with me at work (different times, obvs), but the kicker is that they were all clearly in their mid-twenties, at least a decade younger than me, and all very attractive. 

The second was was definitely worth re-telling. It was towards the end of the night, and I was ringing him up, just making conversation like I always do. I commented that he must be really into econ and finance, because he was buying 4 books all on the topic. I finished the transaction, but he decided to stay to talk to me, and asked me what I had read recently that I enjoyed, so I started telling him about this book, "Less" by Andrew Sean Greer, and I was totally waxing poetic about it. I showed him where it was, and he was like, "I'll have to come back and get it and read it next." Then I had to help someone else, and so we said goodnight, and he left. AND THEN HE CAME BACK IN TO GET THE BOOK. He said he didn't want to forget about it, and while I was ringing him up, he said, "Has anyone ever told you that you have stunning eyes? I've never seen anything like them. They're so blue, and they just sparkle. Your eyes are really beautiful." I just about fell on the floor, I was so surprised. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN TO ME, Y'ALL. I'm pretty sure I turned beet red, but I managed to be gracefully say thank you. 

I was flustered, so I didn't get his name, and my manager was standing right there, waiting to close the register, but he definitely got mine, because he addressed me by name several times. I probably won't see him again, and besides, what would I do with a 25-year-old? But it was definitely a boost to my confidence and self-esteem, which TBH I really needed.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Not

I was at the grocery store a few days ago and I ran into XH’s best friend from high school. We chatted for several minutes and I found out this friend had run into XH the week before and when we said our goodbye’s as this friend was turning around to walk away he quickly turned back and told me to tell XH they need to get together soon. I did a double take, which he immediately noticed and cocked his head to the side with a questioning look.

I asked him if XH told him about the divorce and his jaw literally fell to the floor as he did a double take lol! He asked me when this had happened and I told him a year ago! XH never said a word, just made like everything was good and the wife and kids were swell. XH is a strange puppy lol!


----------



## Affaircare

Not;19828893... XH never said a word said:


>


----------



## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Guys, I had the craziest night at the bookstore last night! Crazy in a good way.
> 
> I had not one, but THREE customers clearly flirting with me at work (different times, obvs), but the kicker is that they were all clearly in their mid-twenties, at least a decade younger than me, and all very attractive.
> 
> The second was was definitely worth re-telling. It was towards the end of the night, and I was ringing him up, just making conversation like I always do. I commented that he must be really into econ and finance, because he was buying 4 books all on the topic. I finished the transaction, but he decided to stay to talk to me, and asked me what I had read recently that I enjoyed, so I started telling him about this book, "Less" by Andrew Sean Greer, and I was totally waxing poetic about it. I showed him where it was, and he was like, "I'll have to come back and get it and read it next." Then I had to help someone else, and so we said goodnight, and he left. AND THEN HE CAME BACK IN TO GET THE BOOK. He said he didn't want to forget about it, and while I was ringing him up, he said, "Has anyone ever told you that you have stunning eyes? I've never seen anything like them. They're so blue, and they just sparkle. Your eyes are really beautiful." I just about fell on the floor, I was so surprised. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN TO ME, Y'ALL. I'm pretty sure I turned beet red, but I managed to be gracefully say thank you.
> 
> I was flustered, so I didn't get his name, and my manager was standing right there, waiting to close the register, but he definitely got mine, because he addressed me by name several times. I probably won't see him again, and besides, what would I do with a 25-year-old? But it was definitely a boost to my confidence and self-esteem, which TBH I really needed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Careful... you may start getting love notes :grin2:


----------



## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> AND THEN HE CAME BACK IN TO GET THE BOOK. He said he didn't want to forget about it, and while I was ringing him up, he said, "Has anyone ever told you that you have stunning eyes? I've never seen anything like them. They're so blue, and they just sparkle. Your eyes are really beautiful." I just about fell on the floor, I was so surprised. THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN TO ME, Y'ALL. I'm pretty sure I turned beet red, but I managed to be gracefully say thank you.
> 
> I was flustered, so I didn't get his name, and my manager was standing right there, waiting to close the register, but he definitely got mine, because he addressed me by name several times. I probably won't see him again, and besides, what would I do with a 25-year-old? But it was definitely a boost to my confidence and self-esteem, which TBH I really needed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Aw, this is so cool!  Good for you! 

This kind of thing never happens to me either! Geez, I cant even remember the last time ANY man, my partner included, complimented me this way!


----------



## FeministInPink

I never had a man compliment me like this, either, except for Real Estate. He reminded me I was beautiful in different ways all the time. I never really BELIEVED I was beautiful until I met RE (for a variety of past relationship and FOO issues that I won't go into), and this is one of the positive ways I have permanently changed, thanks to RE. While I haven't forgotten that I am beautiful, and that my beauty and self-perception exists even without external validation... I had forgotten how good that external validation feels.

Also... for perhaps the first time ever, I was able to accept the compliment gracefully and without suspicion. My mother taught me (drilled into my head) that if someone compliments you or says something nice, it's only because they want something from you. It has taken me 39 freaking years to unlearn and un-internalize that crap... but I think I finally have.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> Careful... you may start getting love notes :grin2:


Last year, a guy brought me a collection of Wonder Woman [movie] promo posters. I wasn't at work when he brought them in, so he left them for me with a note. Does that count?

I never saw him again, though 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

FeministInPink said:


> Last year, a guy brought me a collection of Wonder Woman [movie] promo posters. I wasn't at work when he brought them in, so he left them for me with a note. Does that count?
> 
> I never saw him again, though


What was in the note? I would say that counts - though if he went through all that trouble and then didn't contact you then he must have been an idiot! -_-

My note was very simple to my girlfriend, just a handwritten note 

I couldn't even get a conversation in at the reception with angry guys behind me annoyed I was holding up the line lol


----------



## FeministInPink

RandomDude said:


> What was in the note? I would say that counts - though if he went through all that trouble and then didn't contact you then he must have been an idiot! -_-
> 
> My note was very simple to my girlfriend, just a handwritten note
> 
> I couldn't even get a conversation in at the reception with angry guys behind me annoyed I was holding up the line lol


The note was nothing special. We'd had a conversation about the posters when he had been in the store, and I mentioned that if he didn't want them, I'd love to have them. It was just something like, "These should belong to someone who appreciates them" with his name and his card. I emailed him to thank him, and he responded with a "You're welcome"email and that's all there was to it. I had told him to ask for me the next time he was in so I could thank him in person, but he never did.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

At this point, I don't even remember what he looks like. I remember the conversation, but not the face.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Not

Not happy.

One of the mechanics here at work asked me out for dinner. 

Back story. His wife left him in December. No warning, just left after 35 years but says she doesn't want a divorce. She says she just needs time to figure things out. Of course all of us here immediately gave him support and felt really bad for him. He stated from the beginning he wants her back and is willing to wait.

Then he starts visiting me more often asking for advise because he knows I had just gone through a divorce. He was really frustrated that he had no control over the situation and no say. I told him he did have control and could set his own terms and limits according to what he was willing to deal with. He could choose to wait or he could move on and he had every right to stand up for what he needs.

A couple of weeks later he tells me he saw my profile on POF! My first thought was what the **** are you doing on POF? You're married!! My second thought was that he's now playing games with his wife, fighting back by trying to make her jealous. He then goes into a tirade about how she has no right to expect him to go without sex like this and she better hurry up and make up her mind. My jaw was on the floor, red flags everywhere! I began to wonder for the first time maybe she has really good reason for leaving. 

So he's asked me to dinner. He waited until it was just him and I in the shop. This is awful for so many reasons. We have a such an awesome work dynamic here and as a team work flawlessly together. It really bothers me that he's willing to damage that and all because he's having trouble dealing with his personal life. I don't believe for a second his intentions are sincere. Even if he was sincere I wouldn't be interested and it bothers me so much that he's put me in this awful/awkward position.

I told him I'm seeing someone which isn't a total lie, I'm in the beginning stages. If I hadn't been so caught off guard and embarrassed I would have ripped into him. My main concern at this time is that I want this to NOT continue, I want to make sure this is permanently nipped in the bud and I don't know that keeping this to myself is the best idea??

My boss is very down to earth and easy to talk to you but I don't know that saying something will help me nip this. I DO NOT want to create any drama over this.

Should I keep it to myself?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I dont see a need for you to bring anyone else into this. He is going through a really screwed up time, it seems he isnt sure how to handle it. Maybe he asked you to dinner because he feels a camaraderie with you and just wants to have a chance to hang out. Maybe he has realized that his marriage is over and has decided its ok for him to start to date. To assume he has some kind of dark motive behind the request seems a bit harsh. You could have told him that you were not comfortable with you two spending time together outside of work, and I would bet he could accept that. I hope he realizes that he doesnt have to accept the ridiculous terms his wife has put on the marriage, he can go and file for divorce and doesnt need her permission or cooperation.


----------



## Not

Thanks 3x. Re: the assumption of a dark motive. Yeah, I do that. Partly because of my history of being with someone who was a completely different person inside the home and a great guy outside of the home. So I keep myself open to the fact that this guy may not be an innocent victim in all of this. Also, because it seemed that my co-workers focus on sex was so off balance because according to him they had a normal sex life up until the end, I assumed his focus on sex was what was fueling his actions with me. I get that lack of sex can be frustrating but I've gone without for over 8 years so he kind of sounds like a whiny brat to me. Three months? Pfft!

Also, he has had at least one affair that I know of, with someone here at work. This happened before my time here. I totally forgot to include that piece of info in my OP. So that has also played a role in how I see him. I don't know how that whole thing went over with his wife, he doesn't talk about it.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> Thanks 3x. Re: the assumption of a dark motive. Yeah, I do that. Partly because of my history of being with someone who was a completely different person inside the home and a great guy outside of the home. So I keep myself open to the fact that this guy may not be an innocent victim in all of this. Also, because it seemed that my co-workers focus on sex was so off balance because according to him they had a normal sex life up until the end, I assumed his focus on sex was what was fueling his actions with me. I* get that lack of sex can be frustrating but I've gone without for over 8 years so he kind of sounds like a whiny brat to me. Three months? Pfft!*


Right?? Pssht, AMATEUR! (4 years, here!)


----------



## Blondilocks

Not said:


> Thanks 3x. Re: the assumption of a dark motive. Yeah, I do that. Partly because of my history of being with someone who was a completely different person inside the home and a great guy outside of the home. So I keep myself open to the fact that this guy may not be an innocent victim in all of this. Also, because it seemed that my co-workers focus on sex was so off balance because according to him they had a normal sex life up until the end, I assumed his focus on sex was what was fueling his actions with me. I get that lack of sex can be frustrating but I've gone without for over 8 years so he kind of sounds like a whiny brat to me. Three months? Pfft!
> 
> Also, he has had at least one affair that I know of, with someone here at work. This happened before my time here. I totally forgot to include that piece of info in my OP. So that has also played a role in how I see him. I don't know how that whole thing went over with his wife, he doesn't talk about it.


There is no need to be uncomfortable. Simply tell him that you don't think it's a good idea to socialize one on one outside of work. You don't date coworkers.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

8 yrs? 4 yrs?

That's a long time. I have questions but am not asking.


----------



## Not

Blondilocks said:


> There is no need to be uncomfortable. Simply tell him that you don't think it's a good idea to socialize one on one outside of work. You don't date coworkers.


If he approaches me again I definitely will.


----------



## Not

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> 8 yrs? 4 yrs?
> 
> That's a long time. I have questions but am not asking.


Ask away


----------



## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> Ask away




Well I’m “only” about 1 1/2 myself but I am curious as to what these questions might be.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 2&out

I guess I'll make a likely unpopular comment. A no sex "relationship" is simply an acquaintance / someone you know. Not anyone "special". Unless your maybe 13 yrs old or just met. 

Is semi sad and to me surprising, to see what appear to me like some smart nice ladies here have had no more than a hey - how's it going - man relationships for years. In the world I live in you are wanted and if you make yourself available/visible to suitors you'll be found/pursued for more than just an acquaintance. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## sunsetmist

Some of us are 'picky' and have conservative values when it comes to a sexual relationship. Then, again, sometimes time is not planned, but is result of life circumstances.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well I’m “only” about 1 1/2 myself but I am curious as to what these questions might be.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hope these questions are taken as tactful, they are intended to be.

These esteemed members seem well adjusted in not focusing striving for sexual liaisons as an issue so almost pre-qualified, so to speak.

Is abstinence totally by choice or a combination of physical limitations one has had to find a balance with?

Is abstinence because a DH has passed, and no one is likely to again be that "whole package" worth developing feelings for, that could lead to a physical relationship?

Is it because having a new man just deemed too much trouble?

Is it somewhat age related?

Is it because one is too happy as are, too set in one's ways?

Is it because other family members would disagree?

Is it because of just LD?

Would one re-start if a worthwhile partner came into one's life?

Is it not important at all, or just not important for now?

Are there any other questions I should have asked, or that one may want to share?

Pls feel free to tell me to be quiet, none of my business for any or all questions. 

Best,


----------



## Lila

2&out said:


> I guess I'll make a likely unpopular comment. A no sex "relationship" is simply an acquaintance / someone you know. Not anyone "special". Unless your maybe 13 yrs old or just met.


The other side of that coin is that an only sex "relationship" is just a **** buddy. 



> Is semi sad and to me surprising, to see what appear to me like some smart nice ladies here have had no more than a hey - how's it going - man relationships for years. *In the world I live in you are wanted and if you make yourself available/visible to suitors you'll be found/pursued for more than just an acquaintance*. Just my humble opinion.


In my experience and based on what many of the smart nice ladies here and elsewhere have said, many of the "suitors" who go after those women who are available/visible are looking for the sexual benefits without the investment of a relationship. 

I know that if I'm going to maintain a meaningless sexual "relationship" then I am going to do so with the hottest, sexiest, and most generous (time and resources) Playboy(s) I can nab. I mean, if it's meaningless then there's no need to worry about monogamy, being emotionally supportive, or anything else that goes with being a girlfriend, right? Its the human dildo experience. Might as well use the finest dildo that can get the job done. I know many women would rather abstain than use men in this capacity.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I hope these questions are taken as tactful, they are intended to be.
> 
> Pls feel free to tell me to be quiet, none of my business for any or all questions.


I dont mind the questions, I would have them too lol...


My situation, I am currently in a relationship, my bf just is not interested in intimacy with me. There are performance issues, but only in being with me, not in taking care of himself.. or with oral for that matter. But he refuses to do anything to try and work on it, and never shows any interest in being intimate in other ways either. I am just completely without, and it really doesnt seem to bother him. Any "discussions" are pretty much just me talking AT him because he doesnt engage. 

So what the hell am I still doing in this? I DONT KNOW. I guess I have been trying to be one of those women who doesnt need or care about sex, but if I am being honest with myself, that isnt me. He is a kind decent person and my best friend, so I am just having trouble letting go. He really isnt worth crap as a romantic partner. I know I can find someone out there who actually WANTS me, I am trying to work up the courage to end it so that I can free myself to find it.


----------



## Blondilocks

3Xnocharm said:


> I dont mind the questions, I would have them too lol...
> 
> 
> My situation, I am currently in a relationship, my bf just is not interested in intimacy with me. There are performance issues, but only in being with me, not in taking care of himself.. or with oral for that matter. But he refuses to do anything to try and work on it, and never shows any interest in being intimate in other ways either. I am just completely without, and it really doesnt seem to bother him. Any "discussions" are pretty much just me talking AT him because he doesnt engage.
> 
> So what the hell am I still doing in this? I DONT KNOW. I guess I have been trying to be one of those women who doesnt need or care about sex, but if I am being honest with myself, that isnt me. He is a *kind decent person and my best friend*, so I am just having trouble letting go. He really isnt worth crap as a romantic partner. I know I can find someone out there who actually WANTS me, I am trying to work up the courage to end it so that I can free myself to find it.


He is so kind and so decent that he happily accepts blowjobs from you but has no interest in reciprocating. What kind of best friend uses you? Please wake up. You won't find what you're looking for when you refuse to look up. The guy is an emotional vampire.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Blondilocks said:


> He is so kind and so decent that h*e happily accepts blowjobs from you but has no interest in reciprocating. * What kind of best friend uses you? Please wake up. You won't find what you're looking for when you refuse to look up. The guy is an emotional vampire.


Those have STOPPED, have been for quite some time now. Screw that. 

Thank you for the push though, I need it.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

@3Xnocharm 

Thanks for answering. 

It's a reality there are many facets to any relationship. Especially ltrs.

As in a navigational gimbal, as long as any one or related items don't pull ones "ship" into a truly intolerable direction or imminent crash heading it's sometimes preferable to ride it out.

The gimbal can spin, wobble, and will eventually right itself, until it won't. It may never fully crash.

It's up to the pilot to determine if the overall flight is still within reasonable trajectory, all things considered. 

Thanks for answering!

&#55357;&#56845;&#55357;&#56845;&#55357;&#56845;


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

3Xnocharm said:


> I dont mind the questions, I would have them too lol...
> 
> 
> My situation, I am currently in a relationship, my bf just is not interested in intimacy with me. There are performance issues, but only in being with me, not in taking care of himself.. or with oral for that matter. But he refuses to do anything to try and work on it, and never shows any interest in being intimate in other ways either. I am just completely without, and it really doesnt seem to bother him. Any "discussions" are pretty much just me talking AT him because he doesnt engage.
> 
> So what the hell am I still doing in this? I DONT KNOW. I guess I have been trying to be one of those women who doesnt need or care about sex, but if I am being honest with myself, that isnt me. He is a kind decent person and my best friend, so I am just having trouble letting go. He really isnt worth crap as a romantic partner. I know I can find someone out there who actually WANTS me, I am trying to work up the courage to end it so that I can free myself to find it.


It does sound like you want out.

Anything said after that is moot, putting lipstick on a pig.

Everyday do a little more to be prepared. 

You can do it if you choose to. It's not an easy thing.


----------



## FeministInPink

@3Xnocharm

As Dan Savage would say, DTMFA.

Seriously, you deserve better. Any more time you spend with him is time wasted when you could be with someone who wants to be WITH YOU, and who will do whatever he needs to to to keep you and keep you happy. Drummer boy clearly isn't up to task.

I know you've invested a lot of time and emotion into him and into this, long before he was ever on board. I think you built it up in your mind how great things with him would be, and you fell in love with an idealized version of him, and the real-life actual him is failing to meet your expectations. You don't want to feel like all of that was wasted time, and I think that's why you're hanging on... you want him to make all that time worth it. But he's not going to, and he never will. You can't get back the time you've already invested, but you can stop wasting your time moving forward.

If you have to convince and persuade someone to be with you, then they don't really want to be with you. You put a lot of time in convincing him he should be with you, and his behavior is making it clear that he doesn't really want to be with you.

Just rip off that band-aid already so you can start moving forward with your life and stop wasting your time.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I hope these questions are taken as tactful, they are intended to be.
> 
> 
> 
> These esteemed members seem well adjusted in not focusing striving for sexual liaisons as an issue so almost pre-qualified, so to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> Is abstinence totally by choice or a combination of physical limitations one has had to find a balance with?
> 
> 
> 
> Is abstinence because a DH has passed, and no one is likely to again be that "whole package" worth developing feelings for, that could lead to a physical relationship?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it because having a new man just deemed too much trouble?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it somewhat age related?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it because one is too happy as are, too set in one's ways?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it because other family members would disagree?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it because of just LD?
> 
> 
> 
> Would one re-start if a worthwhile partner came into one's life?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it not important at all, or just not important for now?
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any other questions I should have asked, or that one may want to share?
> 
> 
> 
> Pls feel free to tell me to be quiet, none of my business for any or all questions.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,


I know your question wasn't directed at me, but I'm going to respond anyway.

I've been out of my relationship with Real Estate for almost 8 months now, and that means I am 8 months celibate. While it wasn't my choice to end the relationship, 8 months celibacy has been my personal choice. Almost immediately after the breakup, I began receiving advances from men in the kink community. If I wanted to get laid, there was no shortage of volunteers. I declined all the advances, because I needed time to heal, and I knew casual sex wouldn't help me. I've decided to take this time to focus on me and building the life that I want, and if the right man comes along, he will fit into my life--not the other way around. I've spent too much of my life working myself around other people's dreams and expectations, and I'm not going to do that anymore. Right now, I don't want to be distracted from my goals, so I'm not actively looking for a partner, but if I meet someone organically and it seems like a good fit, I'm not going to pass him up. I hope the next time I have sex will be in a relationship with a worthwhile partner, but I've also decided that the next relationship I have, I'm going to wait a little longer for sex than I have in the past. I've always jumped into bed pretty quickly, which means I become attached too quickly--and usually to the wrong person. I don't want to do that anymore. I want to make sure he is worth getting attached to first, and if he's the right guy, he will appreciate that.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Lila

@3Xnocharm you are an incredible and worthy person. Only you can decide if what you are getting from your bf is enough. There is no shame in thinking it is just as there is none in saying it isn't. But in my humble opinion, I think you deserve more.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> Just rip off that band-aid already so you can start moving forward with your life and stop wasting your time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I know I know I know!


----------



## Not

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I hope these questions are taken as tactful, they are intended to be.
> 
> These esteemed members seem well adjusted in not focusing striving for sexual liaisons as an issue so almost pre-qualified, so to speak.
> 
> Is abstinence totally by choice or a combination of physical limitations one has had to find a balance with?
> 
> Is abstinence because a DH has passed, and no one is likely to again be that "whole package" worth developing feelings for, that could lead to a physical relationship?
> 
> Is it because having a new man just deemed too much trouble?
> 
> Is it somewhat age related?
> 
> Is it because one is too happy as are, too set in one's ways?
> 
> Is it because other family members would disagree?
> 
> Is it because of just LD?
> 
> *Would one re-start if a worthwhile partner came into one's life?*
> 
> Is it not important at all, or just not important for now?
> 
> Are there any other questions I should have asked, or that one may want to share?
> 
> Pls feel free to tell me to be quiet, none of my business for any or all questions.
> 
> Best,


My answers to all of the questions except the bolded are no. I would most definitely restart with a worthwhile partner.

I’ve been celibate for 8 years, divorced for one year, and the reasons are many but the last straw was the last time we had sex over eight years ago. It was so mechanical, awkward and awful that my X and I never approached each other again. 

I look forward to finding someone to be intimate with again, very much so.


----------



## Wolf1974

Bought the ring today and mapped out the location of the purposal. T minus 28 days


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Wolf1974 said:


> Bought the ring today and mapped out the location of the purposal. T minus 28 days




Exciting!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## frusdil

[/I]


Wolf1974 said:


> Bought the ring today and mapped out the location of the purposal. T minus 28 days


Omg omg omg!! That's so exciting!!! We won't tell her, don't worry :rofl:


----------



## AVR1962

I am back with the man I have been dating for 1 1/2 years. I broke up with him and 10 days later he asked to talk. I expressed my concerns, he told me that he loved me dearly. My heart did a pitter patter and we will go from here.


----------



## Wolf1974

AVR1962 said:


> I am back with the man I have been dating for 1 1/2 years. I broke up with him and 10 days later he asked to talk. I expressed my concerns, he told me that he loved me dearly. My heart did a pitter patter and we will go from here.


Has he made changes from when you broke up with him? Will things be different you think?


----------



## Wolf1974

frusdil said:


> [/I]
> 
> Omg omg omg!! That's so exciting!!! We won't tell her, don't worry :rofl:


appreciate that lol. That has been the hardest part. No one knows no one suspects. I was on my own to come up with ring type and size. Will see :surprise:


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## Livvie

AVR1962 said:


> I am back with the man I have been dating for 1 1/2 years. I broke up with him and 10 days later he asked to talk. I expressed my concerns, he told me that he loved me dearly. My heart did a pitter patter and we will go from here.


Oh my. Telling you he loves you doesn't tell you what behaviors he thinks we're detrimental to you, and why and how he wants to/plans to change them.

Did you discuss that aspect?


----------



## RandomDude

Wolf1974 said:


> Bought the ring today and mapped out the location of the purposal. T minus 28 days





Wolf1974 said:


> appreciate that lol. That has been the hardest part. No one knows no one suspects. I was on my own to come up with ring type and size. Will see :surprise:


Whao!

Did you measure her finger? lol


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## Wolf1974

RandomDude said:


> Whao!
> 
> Did you measure her finger? lol


No. I took a ring from her jewelry box I have seen her wear before and had that measured. What I wasn’t able to ask was If it was to comfortable or loose. The places I got it will resize for free so shouldn’t be s huge concern. :grin2:

I’m way more concerned I picked the right style


----------



## Blondilocks

AVR1962 said:


> I am back with the man I have been dating for 1 1/2 years. I broke up with him and 10 days later he asked to talk. I expressed my concerns, he told me that he loved me dearly. My heart did a pitter patter and we will go from here.


Will your heart go pitter patter when he keeps pulling the same ****?


----------



## Lila

Congratulations @Wolf1974!! So happy to hear that you are happy with this new chapter in your life.


----------



## AVR1962

I went to see my counselor to clear all the stuff from my head and try to understand my own thoughts and feelings. I realized, with the counselor's help, that I had a half foot out the door with this man, waiting for someone else to come back in my life. I know that sounds bizarre. When I broke things off with the man I had been dating for 1 1/2 years I was able to let go of the the man. Not sure how all that works. But I also realized too I needed to take a closer look at myself and my behavior that was not working in relationships. I decided to do NOTHING. I am normally the one that has to get the air clear. I am the one that spills my guts and everything is on the table. I am expressive. I have since the break up just let life happen and I have stepped back so this man could step up if he chose to. Livvie, to answer your question [Telling you he loves you doesn't tell you what behaviors he thinks we're detrimental to you, and why and how he wants to/plans to change them. Did you discuss that aspect?] Yes...and I am very aware of your statement. Right now I am him make the contact and feeling better about it. My counselor helped me to understand that right now I don't have to "give." I can receive and watch how he treats me. Not with a negative, watching eye but giving him space to show me who he is. 

Yesterday was my annual big event, something that takes me 3 months to prepare for (3 months of hard work that can be very stressful). He was there and was a wonderful presence and support. Afterwards he took me to dinner and we just laughed and enjoyed each other's company. I realized too with the help of my counselor that it is his values that I like about this man. I have not been able to share certain aspects of life with another man like I have with this man. My counselor told me to not just look at at what I like about him but to pay attention too to how he treats me, not everyone else, me. She felt I had made things clear to him how I felt. My ex would have been passive-aggressive and full of revenge which I prepared myself for. No sign of bitterness and since I backed off he has been more in the pursuit seat which I like.


----------



## attheend02

Well... some don't consider me single, but... as my father used to say... "scr#@w em if they can't take a joke"

Just moved into my new apartment - House closes on the 11th of April. Was a little nervous about laying out the money.
Boxes everywhere, but I took the time to make my new bed. Laying on it and reflecting... 

I have NEVER been on my own. Roommates in college (flunked out), lived with a girl and her child when I was 19, moved back home, then moved in with my future wife at 21.

Amazing to me that this is the first time that I have actually lived on my own at 51.

Of course I forgot all of my silverware, so I can't eat in my new apartment.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Welcome to the club! Being on your own can be intimidating, but really it’s awesome! You just have to get through the adjustment period. It’s so great being able to do everything your own way! In fact, the longer I am on my own, the more I question whether I would actually be able to live with a partner anymore lol!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandomDude

Wolf1974 said:


> No. I took a ring from her jewelry box I have seen her wear before and had that measured. What I wasn’t able to ask was If it was to comfortable or loose. The places I got it will resize for free so shouldn’t be s huge concern. :grin2:
> 
> I’m way more concerned I picked the right style


Lol nice, for our anniversary I got her a promise ring and I was struggling to measure her ring size myself and resorted having to recruit her sister. 

I got her this:









Of course it also means I'm wearing a ring too. Pre-engagement 

I'll propose after a year or so of living together lol


----------



## Wolf1974

RandomDude said:


> Lol nice, for our anniversary I got her a promise ring and I was struggling to measure her ring size myself and resorted having to recruit her sister.
> 
> I got her this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it also means I'm wearing a ring too. Pre-engagement
> 
> I'll propose after a year or so of living together lol


Very nice and congrats!

Here is mine


----------



## Not

I went a second date, my first. While I was out to dinner my son called and I told him I was out to dinner so I would call him back later.

When I called him later he asked if I had been out on a date, I told him yes. I hadn’t told him I was dating, just didn’t want to go there after my youngest got really upset about it and said if I brought anyone to the house while she’s here all hell will break loose. Ugh.

My son asked me if I didn’t think it was a little too soon and I said no, it’s been over a year. Then he asks if dad knows. More ugh. I told him I had no idea and it didn’t matter because we’re divorced. 

I have no plans on bringing anyone into my home for a while and planned on taking things really slow as far as my kids are concerned. Their reactions though have really brought me down. I’ve been alone for a long time. I haven’t been hugged or kissed or touched in any way in years and I need all of that. I don’t need serious commitment, just someone I like and trust to spend time with in that way and if it blossoms into something more later then wonderful. 

What I don’t want though is to drag someone into a situation where my kids make things hard for us to spend time together or get rude because they are not ready for mom to move on. My oldest says she’s ok with it, says it’s just the natural next step but I think it bothers her at the same time. She seems worried lately. 

I got a hug and a kiss on that second date, just a kiss on the cheek but it was so much more than I’ve had in almost a decade. 

Just need to semi vent and release some of this worry.


----------



## notmyjamie

Not said:


> I went a second date, my first. While I was out to dinner my son called and I told him I was out to dinner so I would call him back later.
> 
> I got a hug and a kiss on that second date, just a kiss on the cheek but it was so much more than I’ve had in almost a decade.
> 
> Just need to semi vent and release some of this worry.


I feel like if I ever do go on another date I'd be able to write this exact thing. I've had no physical attention for years, forget sex. My youngest 15yo recently made sure to tell me that "just because people break up it doesn't mean they need to go find someone else" so I know dating will not be something she'll accept easily. She is taking her anger on the separation out on just me and I'm getting no support from STBX even though the divorce is 100% his fault. 

You are doing nothing wrong. You're divorced and you have a right to see who you want. Keep your relationship to yourself for a while. Don't introduce your kids to anyone right away. It might go easier that way. I hope you get a third date to enjoy!!


----------



## Lila

@Not and @Notmyjane do your exes have any custody of the children? 

Have either of you tried family therapy? That might help your kids with the transition.


----------



## notmyjamie

Lila said:


> @Not and @Notmyjane do your exes have any custody of the children?
> 
> Have either of you tried family therapy? That might help your kids with the transition.


We do not have a formal custody arrangement yet. I moved into a separate apartment that is part of our existing house. So my kids can go back and forth between the apartments as much as they want. We will most likely settle on 50/50 custody since we'll be living like this until my 15yo graduates from school. Then we'll sell the house and move on. I never thought I'd want time to move faster to her graduation.

My daughter is in therapy and I know her therapist talks to her about the separation and how parents can still love you but not each other, etc, etc. I think my mistake was telling the kids we were separating when in reality I know we're divorcing. I thought proceeding slowly would be better and give them time to adjust but now I think she just needs to hear we're not getting back together. Any time I have her and her sister over for dinner she gets super mad at me for not inviting her father and accuses me of not trying to fix things with him. Of course, when he orders dinner out for himself and the kids and excludes me she doesn't get upset with him at all. When I tell him she's angry at me again he offers zero support to me at all despite the fact that I've done all I can to make sure he is not seen as a bad guy. He married me under extremely false pretenses and deceived me horribly. I have kept this info from my children and so he's protected from their anger and he does nothing to make sure I'm not the bad guy even though I did nothing wrong. I'm not sure if he's just lazy, clueless, emotionally unable to discuss the separation with his kids, or a selfish *******. I think it's a combination of all of them to be honest.


----------



## Not

Lila said:


> @Not and @Notmyjane do your exes have any custody of the children?
> 
> Have either of you tried family therapy? That might help your kids with the transition.


We have a 50/50 custody schedule and no family therapy but my youngest is in individual counseling. As far as I’m aware there has been no talk about my dating at her dads house.

I’m going to mention it to her one more time and see how she reacts. I may have just caught her off guard with something she honestly hadn’t given any thought to. She’s had a month to think about it so I’m curious to see what she has to say now. If the reaction is negative again I’m going to tell her she definitely needs to bring this up in counseling.


----------



## Lila

notmyjamie said:


> We do not have a formal custody arrangement yet. I moved into a separate apartment that is part of our existing house. So my kids can go back and forth between the apartments as much as they want. We will most likely settle on 50/50 custody since we'll be living like this until my 15yo graduates from school. Then we'll sell the house and move on. I never thought I'd want time to move faster to her graduation.
> 
> My daughter is in therapy and I know her therapist talks to her about the separation and how parents can still love you but not each other, etc, etc. I think my mistake was telling the kids we were separating when in reality I know we're divorcing. I thought proceeding slowly would be better and give them time to adjust but now I think she just needs to hear we're not getting back together. Any time I have her and her sister over for dinner she gets super mad at me for not inviting her father and accuses me of not trying to fix things with him. Of course, when he orders dinner out for himself and the kids and excludes me she doesn't get upset with him at all. When I tell him she's angry at me again he offers zero support to me at all despite the fact that I've done all I can to make sure he is not seen as a bad guy. He married me under extremely false pretenses and deceived me horribly. I have kept this info from my children and so he's protected from their anger and he does nothing to make sure I'm not the bad guy even though I did nothing wrong. I'm not sure if he's just lazy, clueless, emotionally unable to discuss the separation with his kids, or a selfish *******. I think it's a combination of all of them to be honest.


Has the therapist said anything to you on how to handle the situation with your daughter? I think she's old enough to be told the truth but the delivery can make or break you.


----------



## Lila

Not said:


> We have a 50/50 custody schedule and no family therapy but my youngest is in individual counseling. As far as I’m aware there has been no talk about my dating at her dads house.
> 
> I’m going to mention it to her one more time and see how she reacts. I may have just caught her off guard with something she honestly hadn’t given any thought to. She’s had a month to think about it so I’m curious to see what she has to say now. If the reaction is negative again I’m going to tell her she definitely needs to bring this up in counseling.


Do you only date on the weeks where you do not have custody? I only ask because I have 50/50 custody of my son and I make it know right away that I do not date on the weeknights/weekends when I have him. Strangely enough, it's the guys with grown kids who have been receptive to this arrangement. The ones with kids of their own usually tell me it's a no go.


----------



## Lila

I deleted my online dating profile back in February but not before going on about a dozen first dates. A handful of them turned into second dates and 3 (Big Country, Alma Mater, and IT) turned into "let's see where this goes". I have learned a lot from all of them and this post is to reflect on what I learned from IT. *Ariana Grande - Thank U, Next.*

IT is a tall, average looking guy whose profile pictures made him look less attractive than he actually turned out to be in real life. I ended up messaging with him after mistakenly "liking" him on Match and felt I owed him that. After a minimal number of back and forths, he asked to meet for a quick drink. I was bored so I agreed to go for one drink and 30 minutes tops. I made sure to pick a night where I had somewhere else to be later. What should have been a 30 minute drink stop turned into a 5 hour long first date complete with dinner, drinks, and dancing. It was unlike any other first date on which I'd been. There was definitely a lot of chemistry. He asked to meet me the next day but I had already made plans with someone else. Going in I knew it was going to be a while (8 days) before I could see him again.

Red Flag #1: A few days after our first date he calls to tell me he met a wonderful woman IRL and wanted to pursue that relationship. I was genuinely happy for him and thanked him for not ghosting. We ended it with "don't be a stranger". I went on to do my thing and didn't give him another thought. 

Six weeks later he messages me to see how I'm doing (it was the Sunday after Big Country's funeral and I wasn't doing well). IT was no longer dating the other woman and wanted to offer his support. We saw each other 4 times in about a week during which there was lots of kissing and heavy petting but no sex. 

Red Flag #2 - he kept telling me that the reason why he picked the other woman over me had nothing to do with physical appearance. He kept reiterating how much more physically attractive I was than her. It was weird since I never brought up the other woman or his reasons for pursuing that relationship. I just took him at his word - he felt a connection with her that he hadn't felt with me. 

Red Flag #3 - I will admit the last time we got together I was the one pushing for sex and he told me we needed to slow down. 

He let me know earlier this week that he was not ready for a serious relationship but that we could still "hangout". I am thankful he didn't have sex with me and then dump me. 

What I learned from IT: 1) never be someone's Plan B. The reason(s) I wasn't his first choice did not magically disappear; 2) run when a man continually compares me to his previous girlfriend. He's trying to rationalize settling; 3) a man who is genuinely attracted and interested won't turn down sex. 

The rejection stings my ego but I am not sad or disappointed. What does that say about me?


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Hey everyone, I have been MIA for awhile. I was just discharged from a 42-day inpatient hospital stay for double pneumonia and resultant kidney failure/dialysis. I wasn't supposed to live during the first 10 days in the ICU on a ventilator, so I'm very grateful to be here. I had to have physical and speech therapy rehab and re-learn to walk again.

All of this has made some of the other ridiculous stuff that went on in my life look really stupid.

I'm not seeing anyone right now. Living by myself and enjoying it with no interest in getting tied up in any more horrible relationships. I am alone but never lonely.

Hope everyone is doing well.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Wow Hope, how scary!! I am so glad you are here and recovering!


----------



## sunsetmist

Hope Shimmers said:


> Hey everyone, I have been MIA for awhile. I was just discharged from a 42-day inpatient hospital stay for double pneumonia and resultant kidney failure/dialysis. I wasn't supposed to live during the first 10 days in the ICU on a ventilator, so I'm very grateful to be here. I had to have physical and speech therapy rehab and re-learn to walk again.
> 
> All of this has made some of the other ridiculous stuff that went on in my life look really stupid.
> 
> I'm not seeing anyone right now. Living by myself and enjoying it with no interest in getting tied up in any more horrible relationships. I am alone but never lonely.
> 
> Hope everyone is doing well.


Wicked scary. One learns what is most important in life. Hope you have some support. You are tough in the best way!


----------



## notmyjamie

Lila said:


> Has the therapist said anything to you on how to handle the situation with your daughter? I think she's old enough to be told the truth but the delivery can make or break you.


When we first separated, she saw her therapist the next day and they worked through a lot of stuff. In general, she's doing well, it's just once in a while, something triggers her and I'm the one she gets angry at which I guess is a mother's lot in life. I do go with her to her therapy appointments and usually attend the last 10 minutes of the session so I think I'll bring this up at her next appt.

I agree that she needs to be told we are not reconciling. STBX is on a business trip right now. He texted me earlier today to tell me he's going to stay an extra night. He's most likely drinking with his work buddies and hitting a strip club which I honestly could care less about, but he hasn't contacted my kids at all while he's been away. I guess he's feeling single on this trip. Anyway, I can't do anything else until I discuss it with him and who knows when he'll meander on home. My only reason for being peeved is that I have plans tonight and now I have to scramble to get my kids fed. Grrr...


----------



## FeministInPink

@HopeShimmers WOW. I am really glad that you came through that and I'm glad to see you're back. That type of experience definitely changes your outlook on life, I bet.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Hope Shimmers

Thank you. It changed me in a huge way. I'm not the same person I was before.


----------



## Lila

@Hope Shimmers sounds like you've been through the ringer. Did you have anyone there to help you through it?


----------



## Not

notmyjamie said:


> I feel like if I ever do go on another date I'd be able to write this exact thing. I've had no physical attention for years, forget sex. My youngest 15yo recently made sure to tell me that "just because people break up it doesn't mean they need to go find someone else" so I know dating will not be something she'll accept easily. She is taking her anger on the separation out on just me and I'm getting no support from STBX even though the divorce is 100% his fault.
> 
> You are doing nothing wrong. You're divorced and you have a right to see who you want. Keep your relationship to yourself for a while. Don't introduce your kids to anyone right away. It might go easier that way. I hope you get a third date to enjoy!!


Thanks notmyjamie. He’s invited me to his boat this weekend, I’m more than a little excited about that. 😊

My youngest is a teen also and would probably agree with what your daughter said. I’m going to be firm on this though, gentle but firm. I don’t want to hide anything from her but I’m not going to expose her either. So I guess I’ll have to discover how to balance the two as I go.


----------



## Not

Lila said:


> Do you only date on the weeks where you do not have custody? I only ask because I have 50/50 custody of my son and I make it know right away that I do not date on the weeknights/weekends when I have him. Strangely enough, it's the guys with grown kids who have been receptive to this arrangement. The ones with kids of their own usually tell me it's a no go.


I do date on weekends when I have her but only on nights when she’s staying over at a friends house. During the week, no not usually but she’s got a busy social life so I can usually squeeze something in. I would be sitting at home alone otherwise. 

I haven’t dated anyone with younger kids. I stated on my POF profile I wouldn’t date anyone with kids under 15. I just don’t want to take that kind of situation on. I was horrible when my parents split up and my mom began dating. I don’t want to meet a mini me!


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Lila said:


> @Hope Shimmers sounds like you've been through the ringer. Did you have anyone there to help you through it?


My family and some friends were there. My three adult children (who live all over the country) were there too.

I don't remember much about the time in the ICU. I was really out of it, and hallucinating. Some of the things I remember didn't actually happen according to my family.


----------



## RandomDude

Wolf1974 said:


> Very nice and congrats!
> 
> Here is mine


Whao nice! Looks like you went all out lol

Let us know how it goes! :surprise:


----------



## Wolf1974

RandomDude said:


> Whao nice! Looks like you went all out lol
> 
> Let us know how it goes! :surprise:


Will do.


Second guessing the location picked. Will probably go back and forth a few more times lol


----------



## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> Will do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second guessing the location picked. Will probably go back and forth a few more times lol


Don't worry so much over the location. HOW you do it is much more important than WHERE. The one caveat to location is if she would prefer a private moment and you choose a very public location; that falls under HOW.

A lovely idea would be to propose to her in the location where you first realized that you were in love with her and could see spending the rest of your life with her. You could tell her the story of that moment, and tell her all the reasons you fell in love with her. And then pop the question.

But I'm sure you know how you want to do it, and don't need my suggestions 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Deejo

Lila said:


> The rejection stings my ego but I am not sad or disappointed. What does that say about me?


It says you recognize and understand the terrain upon which you find yourself deployed.

Nobody likes rejection. But being someone who trains themselves to detach or dispassionately acknowledge why a potential partner chooses to end a relationship without regarding it as a failure or rejection that reflects directly on themselves? That makes you a professional.


----------



## Lila

Deejo said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rejection stings my ego but I am not sad or disappointed. What does that say about me?
> 
> 
> 
> It says you recognize and understand the terrain upon which you find yourself deployed.
> 
> Nobody likes rejection. But being someone who trains themselves to detach or dispassionately acknowledge why a potential partner chooses to end a relationship without regarding it as a failure or rejection that reflects directly on themselves? That makes you a professional.
Click to expand...

 As much as I get rejected, I would go insane if I focused on the whys.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> As much as I get rejected, I would go insane if I focused on the whys.




Rejections are near misses! Good for you 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## notmyjamie

Hope Shimmers said:


> Hey everyone, I have been MIA for awhile. I was just discharged from a 42-day inpatient hospital stay for double pneumonia and resultant kidney failure/dialysis. I wasn't supposed to live during the first 10 days in the ICU on a ventilator, so I'm very grateful to be here. I had to have physical and speech therapy rehab and re-learn to walk again.
> 
> All of this has made some of the other ridiculous stuff that went on in my life look really stupid.
> 
> I'm not seeing anyone right now. Living by myself and enjoying it with no interest in getting tied up in any more horrible relationships. I am alone but never lonely.
> 
> Hope everyone is doing well.


I'm new here but wanted to comment anyway. Such a scary experience for you I'm sure. I hope physical and speech therapy go well and you're back to yourself quickly. 

And yes, an experience like that tends to put things into perspective. Heal yourself physically and emotionally from all this before you decide to take up dating again. You deserve to worry about you right now.

Sending you good healing vibes!!!


----------



## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> As much as I get rejected, I would go insane if I focused on the whys.


I learned a long time ago that rejection is more about the person doing the rejecting than it has to do with me. It was difficult to remember when I was going through my divorce, especially because the marriage itself and his emotional abuse had completely destroyed my self-esteem, so I had to keep reminding myself of all the reasons why he was a bad partner and that it was his personal limitations that made a successful relationship literally IMPOSSIBLE. Honestly, my therapist (and TAM!) helped a lot with this.

But that experience helped a lot with my break up from Real Estate. It didn't make it hurt any less, but I know that relationship ended because of RE's issues and limitations, not because there was something wrong with me. I'm not unlovable, but HE is unable to love (or unable to recognize what love really is), at least in the way that I deserve to be loved.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> Don't worry so much over the location. HOW you do it is much more important than WHERE. The one caveat to location is if she would prefer a private moment and you choose a very public location; that falls under HOW.
> 
> A lovely idea would be to propose to her in the location where you first realized that you were in love with her and could see spending the rest of your life with her. You could tell her the story of that moment, and tell her all the reasons you fell in love with her. And then pop the question.
> 
> But I'm sure you know how you want to do it, and don't need my suggestions
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Hmm not so great with words but I will do my best. She loves lighthouses so I am taking her to the most famous one, least the most photographed. Problem is that’s at the end on the 8 days so I need to keep the ring hidden and my mouth shut that long lol. I know we are going ontop the empire states building at night and that would be romantic. But like you say she is a private person so a crowd would bother her. But if it’s late enough no crowd....dunno


----------



## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> Hmm not so great with words but I will do my best. She loves lighthouses so I am taking her to the most famous one, least the most photographed. Problem is that’s at the end on the 8 days so I need to keep the ring hidden and my mouth shut that long lol. I know we are going ontop the empire states building at night and that would be romantic. But like you say she is a private person so a crowd would bother her. But if it’s late enough no crowd....dunno


Empire State building is so cliche for proposals. I love the lighthouse idea, especially since she loves lighthouses.

You've told me how she's always been steadfast and has stood by you... and that softened your heart, and it's one of the reasons you fell in love with her. So she's kind of like a lighthouse keeper, and she guided your ship to a safe harbor.

There you go, wrote the proposal for you 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Betrayedone

Lila said:


> I deleted my online dating profile back in February but not before going on about a dozen first dates. A handful of them turned into second dates and 3 (Big Country, Alma Mater, and IT) turned into "let's see where this goes". I have learned a lot from all of them and this post is to reflect on what I learned from IT. *Ariana Grande - Thank U, Next.*
> 
> IT is a tall, average looking guy whose profile pictures made him look less attractive than he actually turned out to be in real life. I ended up messaging with him after mistakenly "liking" him on Match and felt I owed him that. After a minimal number of back and forths, he asked to meet for a quick drink. I was bored so I agreed to go for one drink and 30 minutes tops. I made sure to pick a night where I had somewhere else to be later. What should have been a 30 minute drink stop turned into a 5 hour long first date complete with dinner, drinks, and dancing. It was unlike any other first date on which I'd been. There was definitely a lot of chemistry. He asked to meet me the next day but I had already made plans with someone else. Going in I knew it was going to be a while (8 days) before I could see him again.
> 
> Red Flag #1: A few days after our first date he calls to tell me he met a wonderful woman IRL and wanted to pursue that relationship. I was genuinely happy for him and thanked him for not ghosting. We ended it with "don't be a stranger". I went on to do my thing and didn't give him another thought.
> 
> Six weeks later he messages me to see how I'm doing (it was the Sunday after Big Country's funeral and I wasn't doing well). IT was no longer dating the other woman and wanted to offer his support. We saw each other 4 times in about a week during which there was lots of kissing and heavy petting but no sex.
> 
> Red Flag #2 - he kept telling me that the reason why he picked the other woman over me had nothing to do with physical appearance. He kept reiterating how much more physically attractive I was than her. It was weird since I never brought up the other woman or his reasons for pursuing that relationship. I just took him at his word - he felt a connection with her that he hadn't felt with me.
> 
> Red Flag #3 - I will admit the last time we got together I was the one pushing for sex and he told me we needed to slow down.
> 
> He let me know earlier this week that he was not ready for a serious relationship but that we could still "hangout". I am thankful he didn't have sex with me and then dump me.
> 
> What I learned from IT: 1) never be someone's Plan B. The reason(s) I wasn't his first choice did not magically disappear; 2) run when a man continually compares me to his previous girlfriend. He's trying to rationalize settling; 3) a man who is genuinely attracted and interested won't turn down sex.
> 
> The rejection stings my ego but I am not sad or disappointed. What does that say about me?


It says you're acting smartly and learning your lessons.......!


----------



## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> Empire State building is so cliche for proposals. I love the lighthouse idea, especially since she loves lighthouses.
> 
> You've told me how she's always been steadfast and has stood by you... and that softened your heart, and it's one of the reasons you fell in love with her. So she's kind of like a lighthouse keeper, and she guided your ship to a safe harbor.
> 
> There you go, wrote the proposal for you
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


lol yeah not going to say it that way but I’ll definitely keep the lighthouse purposal. :wink2:


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## Lila

Betrayedone said:


> It says you're acting smartly and learning your lessons.......!


I hope the lessons don't leave me a bitter, hardened, untrusting person.


----------



## Betrayedone

I doubt it.......


----------



## Lila

Betrayedone said:


> I doubt it.......


Lol, I don't know man. Some days.......


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## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> Lol, I don't know man. Some days.......




I’m with you sister. Maybe it just takes more time. I dunno...we aren’t getting any younger. Sigh. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lila

Elizabeth001 said:


> I’m with you sister. Maybe it just takes more time. I dunno...we aren’t getting any younger. Sigh.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's possible that time is what's needed. 

I had two interesting conversations yesterday. The first was with a very kind and attractive 60 something year old woman who struck up a conversation with me at a restaurant while we were waiting on our tables. She was on her third husband. Her advice was to focus on the core character traits of the man with whom I want to be in a relationship and you keep an open mind about everything else. The second was with a guy I dated a few times who turned into a good friend. He's having issues with a woman he's currently seeing and asked for my opinion. She's a single mother of 3 (last one with a baby daddy who is psycho) and has mental health issues she treats with meds. I gave him my thoughts and asked for his opinion on my dating life. He said the reason I have not found someone is because compared to most women out there, I have my **** together and very little baggage. He told me honestly that I come off as too independent, not easily wooed, and guarded. It's a cost benefit issue. So yeah, don't know what to do with that information.


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## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> He said the reason I have not found someone is because compared to most women out there, I have my **** together and very little baggage. He told me honestly that I come off as too independent, not easily wooed, and guarded. It's a cost benefit issue. So yeah, don't know what to do with that information.


This is not a negative thing. There are decent men out there who value an independent woman with her **** together, who's head is not turned easily. Many men dont want a helpless princess they have to constantly rescue or babysit. It just means you will have to be patient, because those men have to weed through the women who DONT have their crap together in order to get to you. :wink2:


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## Red Sonja

Lila said:


> He said the reason I have not found someone is because compared to most women out there, I have my **** together and very little baggage. He told me honestly that I come off as too independent, not easily wooed, and guarded. It's a cost benefit issue. So yeah, don't know what to do with that information.


I have been told the same many times. IMO it's a good thing because it repels most of the players and party-boys ... who needs them?


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## RandomDude

Lila said:


> It's possible that time is what's needed.
> 
> I had two interesting conversations yesterday. The first was with a very kind and attractive 60 something year old woman who struck up a conversation with me at a restaurant while we were waiting on our tables. She was on her third husband. Her advice was to focus on the core character traits of the man with whom I want to be in a relationship and you keep an open mind about everything else. The second was with a guy I dated a few times who turned into a good friend. He's having issues with a woman he's currently seeing and asked for my opinion. She's a single mother of 3 (last one with a baby daddy who is psycho) and has mental health issues she treats with meds. I gave him my thoughts and asked for his opinion on my dating life. He said the reason I have not found someone is because compared to most women out there, I have my **** together and very little baggage. He told me honestly that I come off as too independent, not easily wooed, and guarded. It's a cost benefit issue. So yeah, don't know what to do with that information.


Why would you want someone who doesn't appreciate these qualities? Put it this way, if I wanted to go for women easily wooed that's because I don't consider relationship material. And if they were relationship material I would reject them because I knew deep down I wasn't the one for them and I would be wasting their time and hurting them.

The man you want would love that you are his equal, not needing the attention of other men and not easy. Cost benefit issue? Pffft! I'd say you simply haven't found the right one and that is IT!


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## Lila

3Xnocharm said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> He said the reason I have not found someone is because compared to most women out there, I have my **** together and very little baggage. He told me honestly that I come off as too independent, not easily wooed, and guarded. It's a cost benefit issue. So yeah, don't know what to do with that information.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a negative thing. There are decent men out there who value an independent woman with her **** together, who's head is not turned easily. Many men dont want a helpless princess they dont have to constantly rescue or babysit. It just means you will have to be patient, because those men have to weed through the women who DONT have their crap together in order to get to you. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
Click to expand...


In all fairness, I am kind of a princess in that I want to be treated well. But I am looking for a guy to treat like a prince so, yeah. Anyways I'm having a hard time with "guarded". What does that mean exactly?


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## Lila

Red Sonja said:


> I have been told the same many times. IMO it's a good thing because it repels most of the players and party-boys ... who needs them?





RandomDude said:


> Why would you want someone who doesn't appreciate these qualities? Put it this way, if I wanted to go for women easily wooed that's because I don't consider relationship material. And if they were relationship material I would reject them because I knew deep down I wasn't the one for them and I would be wasting their time and hurting them.
> 
> The man you want would love that you are his equal, not needing the attention of other men and not easy. Cost benefit issue? Pffft! I'd say you simply haven't found the right one and that is IT!


I'm just wondering if what he was saying was that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze ykwim?


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## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> I'm just wondering if what he was saying was that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze ykwim?


What did he say when you asked him?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Lila

farsidejunky said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering if what he was saying was that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze ykwim?
> 
> 
> 
> What did he say when you asked him?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I didn't ask. Yeah I know...


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> I'm just wondering if what he was saying was that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze ykwim?


You know, men understand/recognize that a high-quality woman--a woman like Lila, who is independent and has her shiz in order--holds herself to a high standard, and that she's going to hold her man to a high standard as well. Getting (and keeping) a high-quality woman requires EFFORT. And the sad fact is that a lot of men out there are too lazy to put in that kind of effort. They don't want the "hassle." Or they are too afraid of rejection or failure to even try in the first place. You're the apple at the top of the tree, and they are too lazy or scared to climb the tree to be with you. They'll settle for the low-hanging fruit, or even the rotten apples that have fallen to the ground, simply because it's safer and easier.

There are men out there who are confident and strong enough to climb to the top of the tree, and who understand and appreciate that the best apples are at the top, and one will come along eventually. And he's the guy who won't see the climb as work or effort, but who actually enjoys the climb and revels in it.


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> You know, men understand/recognize that a high-quality woman--a woman like Lila, who is independent and has her shiz in order--holds herself to a high standard, and that she's going to hold her man to a high standard as well. Getting (and keeping) a high-quality woman requires EFFORT. And the sad fact is that a lot of men out there are too lazy to put in that kind of effort. They don't want the "hassle." Or they are too afraid of rejection or failure to even try in the first place. You're the apple at the top of the tree, and they are too lazy or scared to climb the tree to be with you. They'll settle for the low-hanging fruit, or even the rotten apples that have fallen to the ground, simply because it's safer and easier.
> 
> There are men out there who are confident and strong enough to climb to the top of the tree, and who understand and appreciate that the best apples are at the top, and one will come along eventually. And he's the guy who won't see the climb as work or effort, but who actually enjoys the climb and revels in it.




OMG fip. Most EXCELLENT post. I needed that, even if it wasn’t for me. You are right!



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## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> You know, men understand/recognize that a high-quality woman--a woman like Lila, who is independent and has her shiz in order--holds herself to a high standard, and that she's going to hold her man to a high standard as well. Getting (and keeping) a high-quality woman requires EFFORT. And the sad fact is that a lot of men out there are too lazy to put in that kind of effort. They don't want the "hassle." Or they are too afraid of rejection or failure to even try in the first place. You're the apple at the top of the tree, and they are too lazy or scared to climb the tree to be with you. They'll settle for the low-hanging fruit, or even the rotten apples that have fallen to the ground, simply because it's safer and easier.
> 
> There are men out there who are confident and strong enough to climb to the top of the tree, and who understand and appreciate that the best apples are at the top, and one will come along eventually. And he's the guy who won't see the climb as work or effort, but who actually enjoys the climb and revels in it.


I think the conversation with my friend has me thinking about the question what is a high quality woman? 

When I say I have my **** together, I mean I have a good career, am mentally and sexually healthy, have a pretty good co-parenting relationship with the ex, and a teenager who is honest to God a gift (I don't know how I got so lucky). I cook, I clean, I manage my financials pretty well, and do most of the other things that go along with normal day to day living. I lead a relatively uncomplicated and stable (see: boring) life. But I don't know if these things make a modern day high quality woman. 

Is it really high standards if I'm looking for the same in a man? Really?


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> I think the conversation with my friend has me thinking about the question what is a high quality woman?
> 
> When I say I have my **** together, I mean I have a good career, am mentally and sexually healthy, have a pretty good co-parenting relationship with the ex, and a teenager who is honest to God a gift (I don't know how I got so lucky). I cook, I clean, I manage my financials pretty well, and do most of the other things that go along with normal day to day living. I lead a relatively uncomplicated and stable (see: boring) life. But I don't know if these things make a modern day high quality woman.
> 
> Is it really high standards if I'm looking for the same in a man? Really?


Girl, you are the DEFINITION of a high quality woman. For real. Because beyond all that, I also see a woman who is smart, compassionate, and emotionally capable of love. You're mature (emotionally, I'm not calling you old, LOL), and you're not the type of woman who's going to cheat, jerk a guy around, or be a *****. You've got it all.

And yes, to a lot of men, those are high standards. Because you're also going to expect him to be your emotional and ethical equal, even though you didn't say it right there. You want him to be self-sufficient. You want a man to have good character. You want him to treat you well. All of that rolled into one person? Hell, yes, to a lot of men, those standards are too high. And those are the men who won't climb the tree.

Sadly, there are a lot of these shirkers on the dating market... because they were divorced by women who realized they married a man who wouldn't climb the tree for them.

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## FeministInPink

@Lila What I'm saying is, don't lower your standards to accept someone who won't climb the tree.

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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> OMG fip. Most EXCELLENT post. I needed that, even if it wasn’t for me. You are right!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Glad I could help a sister.

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## Blondilocks

Lila said:


> I'm just wondering if what he was saying was that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze ykwim?


What he was saying was that you don't need to be rescued. Consider the *source*: a guy who is now dating a woman with baby daddies and mental health problems. He is a knight in shining armor looking to rescue a damsel in distress so he can feel like a hero. Next.


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## FeministInPink

Blondilocks said:


> What he was saying was that you don't need to be rescued. Consider the *source*: a guy who is now dating a woman with baby daddies and mental health problems. He is a knight in shining armor looking to rescue a damsel in distress so he can feel like a hero. Next.


And a man who needs a damsel in order to identify as a hero (who feels the need to be a KISA) won't be a good partner for someone like you @Lila, because if his partner doesn't need saving, he'll always need someone to save. He will always want someone who is a hot mess, and will only STAY with someone who is a hot mess.

Quality men avoid hot mess women from the get-go.

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## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> Girl, you are the DEFINITION of a high quality woman. For real. Because beyond all that, I also see a woman who is smart, compassionate, and emotionally capable of love. You're mature (emotionally, I'm not calling you old, LOL), and you're not the type of woman who's going to cheat, jerk a guy around, or be a *****. You've got it all.
> 
> And yes, to a lot of men, those are high standards. Because you're also going to expect him to be your emotional and ethical equal, even though you didn't say it right there. You want him to be self-sufficient. You want a man to have good character. You want him to treat you well. All of that rolled into one person? Hell, yes, to a lot of men, those standards are too high. And those are the men who won't climb the tree.
> 
> Sadly, there are a lot of these shirkers on the dating market... because they were divorced by women who realized they married a man who wouldn't climb the tree for them.


Thanks for the encouragement FIP. 

By the way, you have a great gift for writing. You ever consider blogging? 



FeministInPink said:


> @Lila What I'm saying is, don't lower your standards to accept someone who won't climb the tree.


I won't only because I don't think I can. I have been blessed with bountiful harvest as far as "life" goes. I know not to ruin a good thing.


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## Lila

Blondilocks said:


> What he was saying was that you don't need to be rescued. Consider the *source*: a guy who is now dating a woman with baby daddies and mental health problems. He is a knight in shining armor looking to rescue a damsel in distress so he can feel like a hero. Next.





FeministInPink said:


> And a man who needs a damsel in order to identify as a hero (who feels the need to be a KISA) won't be a good partner for someone like you @Lila, because if his partner doesn't need saving, he'll always need someone to save. He will always want someone who is a hot mess, and will only STAY with someone who is a hot mess.
> 
> Quality men avoid hot mess women from the get-go.


He's a kind person and a good man but he craves the life he once had. That's why I couldn't date him. I have been separated less time than him but miles ahead of him with regards to healing. 

However I have met the KISA types and have yet to click with one. We repel each other lol.


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## Lila

@FeministInPink, I am going to start up a thread in general about Quality Woman characters. Your feedback would be welcome as well as it may open up some debate on the topic.


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> @FeministInPink, I am going to start up a thread in general about Quality Woman characters. Your feedback would be welcome as well as it may open up some debate on the topic.


Ok, I'll look for it.

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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> Thanks for the encouragement FIP.
> 
> By the way, you have a great gift for writing. You ever consider blogging?
> 
> 
> 
> I won't only because I don't think I can. I have been blessed with bountiful harvest as far as "life" goes. I know not to ruin a good thing.


You're welcome 

And thank you! Your praise made me chuckle. I've been a writer all my life, actually. A stage play I wrote in 8th grade won a national award, and I did both my undergrad and grad degrees in writing. I will write my great American novel someday, but for right now I'm focusing on other things.

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## Cynthia

@3Xnocharm, I'm sorry you are still with your boyfriend. I don't know why you think he's your best friend. He is making you feel bad about yourself. With friends like that, who needs enemies! Right? Am I right?  

You could find much better woman friends who would do more for you and be mutually satisfying relationships without any sexual pressure involved at all. 

What is holding you back from breaking up with him? What are you afraid of?

(I know this is the singles thread, but I've seen a couple of married folks post here and hope it's okay to chime in.)


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## 3Xnocharm

Cynthia, you are so sweet to come here and post for me.  

Two things keep holding me back from pulling that trigger. One is our social circle. This is probably going to sound stupid. But bf is a musician, and since we started our relationship/friendship/relationship, I got brought into this private public world with all kinds of awesome people and everyone has welcomed me. Yeah, you can go to shows, follow bands, hang out at the venues and they get to recognize and know you a little. But if you are brought into it with one of their own, then you become family. And even though I know I could still come around, should we split, it just wouldnt be the same. This has become such a large part of my life, I just have a hard time with the idea of it possibly going away. Yes I know, if they are REAL friends, they want you around no matter what.. and quite likely all this is my own projection from overthinking it. But, I feel like I need to get to a place where I feel ok with the possibility that this part of my life may be gone. (along with someone who has been a constant in my life for 4 1/2 years)

The other thing holding me back, lame as it sounds, is that he isnt a jerk. Usually this far into my past LTR's, my partner has either gone full blown angry narc, or is well on his way. Because, you know... I have this great man picker. He is laid back and lets me be me. He doesnt fly off the handle at nothing, or criticize or insult me or put me down. With what I have dealt with in the past, this is a pretty big deal to me. Sad, right?? I am very afraid of ending up with what I have always ended up with before, if I get back out there and start dating. And I do love him. 

Truth is though that I am not happy with what we have, and I havent been for a very long time. There are other issues, besides no sex, that I know are most likely NOT going to change. I dont want to give any more, and that's no way to be a partner. To be honest, the idea of possibly finally being able to get out there and find my real match excites me, and that should be enough to let me know that I need to change this up. I miss having a real relationship.


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## Cynthia

@3Xnocharm, I'm glad you can articulate it, because then you will be able to work through it. Do you think it's time to make a plan and prepare for ending this relationship that is giving you grief? I know there are no guarantees in finding a good match, but you won't know unless you try. And right now you are not available.

Have you developed friendships with any others in the musical social group that you have entered into? As in, do you connect with anyone separately from your boyfriend and do anything with them alone? Are there are any women in the group that you would like to deepen a friendship with? I realize that it would be awkward for at least a while, but that would eventually wear off, especially if you pursue real friendships with some of the people that particularly enjoy spending time with.


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## 3Xnocharm

CynthiaDe said:


> @3Xnocharm, I'm glad you can articulate it, because then you will be able to work through it. Do you think it's time to make a plan and prepare for ending this relationship that is giving you grief? I know there are no guarantees in finding a good match, but you won't know unless you try. And right now you are not available.


I think its past time honestly, its just taking that step... 



CynthiaDe said:


> Have you developed friendships with any others in the musical social group that you have entered into? As in, do you connect with anyone separately from your boyfriend and do anything with them alone? Are there are any women in the group that you would like to deepen a friendship with? I realize that it would be awkward for at least a while, but that would eventually wear off, especially if you pursue real friendships with some of the people that particularly enjoy spending time with.


I do have a few women that I have become close with, and I know they arent going anywhere. You're right, I would just need to get through that awkward period when going out. I guess this has been important to me because I have always been pretty introverted and havent had a real going out social life in the past.


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## Wolf1974

Well it came today. T minus 12 days till purposal


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## RandomDude

Wolf1974 said:


> Well it came today. T minus 12 days till purposal


*Salutes*


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## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> Well it came today. T minus 12 days till purposal


That is a beautiful ring! Simple and classic. She will love it.

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## Bluesclues

Wolf1974 said:


> Well it came today. T minus 12 days till purposal


The ring is gorgeous!


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## Wolf1974

Bluesclues said:


> The ring is gorgeous!


Thank you I hope she thinks so as well


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## Faithful Wife

Good luck Wolf!


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## Wolf1974

Faithful Wife said:


> Good luck Wolf!


Thank you! I am oddly nervous


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## FeministInPink

So, I had a rough day yesterday. It was a low point in dealing with the end of my relationship with RE. The man who claimed not to want a relationship at all has moved on far more quickly that I ever expected... he clearly has a new girlfriend, and from what I can gather they got together maybe two months after he and I broke up. He could have told me--we've spoken since then--but I found out on Facebook. And it made me so, so angry, because I have been in so much pain and he replaced me so quickly, and it makes me wonder if I ever meant anything to him at all.

Anyway, I had a chat with a [formerly] mutual friend tonight (she let the friendship go quite a few months ago in an unrelated matter), and she helped me process and reminded me of why the relationship didn't work and why I'm better off without RE. So I made this, and printed it and taped it next to my bedroom door to help me keep things in mind. I had to share, because.









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## ConanHub

@FeministInPink

For God's sake you certainly do deserve better!


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## Hopeful Cynic

He clearly thought of you as a placeholder, when you want a relationship where you are considered the rare boss.

It's sad when you see potential in someone, and it turns out they were either being deceptive, or didn't want to put in the work to realize it.

You feel like you wasted all that time and have to start over again. Maybe you didn't mean anything to him at all, maybe no one ever could, but that's his problem, so don't make it yours. If he's moved on so quickly, it means he's a user of people, and you are now off the hook.

As wiser people than I have said, learn from the experience, fix your picker, and stop wishing for a happier past.


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## Another Planet

Checking in. Will need to spend some time catching up with the Jones's. Hi to the new locals and seniors of the group


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## Another Planet

confriggin grats Randumdude!


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## john117

All done...

Only food for thought - it's amazing what material, emotional, intellectual, and even physical comforts we chucked in the altar of inflexibility.









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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> So, I had a rough day yesterday. It was a low point in dealing with the end of my relationship with RE. The man who claimed not to want a relationship at all has moved on far more quickly that I ever expected... he clearly has a new girlfriend, and from what I can gather they got together maybe two months after he and I broke up. He could have told me--we've spoken since then--but I found out on Facebook. And it made me so, so angry, because I have been in so much pain and he replaced me so quickly, and it makes me wonder if I ever meant anything to him at all.
> 
> Anyway, I had a chat with a [formerly] mutual friend tonight (she let the friendship go quite a few months ago in an unrelated matter), and she helped me process and reminded me of why the relationship didn't work and why I'm better off without RE. So I made this, and printed it and taped it next to my bedroom door to help me keep things in mind. I had to share, because.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Ouch.

But yes, your mantra is correct.

You need to look within to find out why you haven’t yet gotten rid of him in your heart, and find the inner guidance to do it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> All done...
> 
> Only food for thought - it's amazing what material, emotional, intellectual, and even physical comforts we chucked in the altar of inflexibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Also ouch.

John, it’s been a long journey for you. Take good care.

New things are lining up for you. In a bit.


----------



## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> @FeministInPink
> 
> 
> 
> For God's sake you certainly do deserve better!


One of the things I learned from this relationship!

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## Cynthia

FeministInPink said:


> One of the things I learned from this relationship!


I hope this gets embedded into your heart and soul. You are smart, beautiful, and worthy. Seek your own level.


----------



## FeministInPink

Hopeful Cynic said:


> He clearly thought of you as a placeholder, when you want a relationship where you are considered the rare boss.
> 
> 
> 
> It's sad when you see potential in someone, and it turns out they were either being deceptive, or didn't want to put in the work to realize it.
> 
> 
> 
> You feel like you wasted all that time and have to start over again. Maybe you didn't mean anything to him at all, maybe no one ever could, but that's his problem, so don't make it yours. If he's moved on so quickly, it means he's a user of people, and you are now off the hook.
> 
> 
> 
> As wiser people than I have said, learn from the experience, fix your picker, and stop wishing for a happier past.


Hit all the nails on the head with your comment.

Despite the heartache, I don't consider it wasted time. I learned so much from this relationship that I wouldn't have otherwise, and that was worth it, I think. I became better at speaking up for myself and my needs, and better at saying no and establishing boundaries. And I will do even better next time.

My friend and I had a very frank discussion about how he uses people. I couldn't see it while I was in it, but in hindsight, it's clear. (It's the reason they fell out, because she realized that he was using her.)

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## FeministInPink

Another Planet said:


> Checking in. Will need to spend some time catching up with the Jones's. Hi to the new locals and seniors of the group


AP! Give us an update!

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## FeministInPink

CynthiaDe said:


> I hope this gets embedded into your heart and soul. You are smart, beautiful, and worthy. Seek your own level.


Thank you 

This has been one of my biggest struggles in life. My mom basically taught me that I should accept whatevers scraps and crap other people might be gracious enough to give me, and that I didn't have the right to expect any better than that. That my expectations and standards were too high, and that I thought too highly of myself. She always made me feel ugly and unworthy of love, and nothing I did ever got her attention or praise, because she wanted to make sure I stayed humble. This has screwed with me my entire life.

I want to frame your comment and put it on my wall. It's not always easy to remember.

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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Ouch.
> 
> But yes, your mantra is correct.
> 
> You need to look within to find out why you haven’t yet gotten rid of him in your heart, and find the inner guidance to do it.


There is something about my brain that makes it very hard to let things go, and they keep coming back to me and the emotions are as fresh as the moment it happened. I don't know why.

When I was around 4 years old--young enough that I still believed in Santa, but I understood that the Santa at the mall was just an actor (we did a lot of theater in my family)--there was a holiday party for the kids at church. I saw my dad dressing up as Santa to come see the kids, which made total sense to me. So I'm there with the kids, and when he comes in, I decide I'm going to be like the emcee or something (I bet my parents had just let me watch Cabaret or something like that), and I jump up and announce, "And here is Papa Pink playing the role is Santa Claus for your amusement!" Or something like that. I got into so much trouble. And it took me TWENTY YEARS to stop replaying that scene in my mind and beating myself up for it. I was in my mid-twenties before I could let that go. I can tell the story now and laugh, but it haunted me for decades.

Some things, they just STICK.

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## FeministInPink

john117 said:


> All done...
> 
> Only food for thought - it's amazing what material, emotional, intellectual, and even physical comforts we chucked in the altar of inflexibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


So true.

Onward to better things!

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## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> So, I had a rough day yesterday. It was a low point in dealing with the end of my relationship with RE. The man who claimed not to want a relationship at all has moved on far more quickly that I ever expected... he clearly has a new girlfriend, and from what I can gather they got together maybe two months after he and I broke up. He could have told me--we've spoken since then--but I found out on Facebook. And it made me so, so angry, because I have been in so much pain and he replaced me so quickly, and it makes me wonder if I ever meant anything to him at all.
> 
> Anyway, I had a chat with a [formerly] mutual friend tonight (she let the friendship go quite a few months ago in an unrelated matter), and she helped me process and reminded me of why the relationship didn't work and why I'm better off without RE. So I made this, and printed it and taped it next to my bedroom door to help me keep things in mind. I had to share, because.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Oh my goodness, I love your meme! 

I’m sorry to hear he moved on so quickly, but hey, you know what she is in for. I am glad you had this friend that knows both of you, who was able to give you a good perspective on it all. 

Sending you love, my friend!


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## Cynthia

@FeministInPink. What you are dealing with can be described in one word: shame. Shame doesn't go away until it is resolved. If you can resolve your shame, you will be able to let go of these things. Have you been in therapy about this? I recommend you start doing some reading about shame and how to release it. It doesn't happen overnight, but there are things you can do to recognize shame when it rears its ugly head and you will be able to lessen the shame cycle considerably. This is deep work, but so worth it.


----------



## FeministInPink

CynthiaDe said:


> @FeministInPink. What you are dealing with can be described in one word: shame. Shame doesn't go away until it is resolved. If you can resolve your shame, you will be able to let go of these things. Have you been in therapy about this? I recommend you start doing some reading about shame and how to release it. It doesn't happen overnight, but there are things you can do to recognize shame when it rears its ugly head and you will be able to lessen the shame cycle considerably. This is deep work, but so worth it.


Well, that makes sense given that there was a lot of shaming in my house growing up. I haven't seen a therapist about it yet--it's not financially viable at this point in time. But once I'm working with a real salary again, I do want to start seeing a therapist to deal with all of this crap going on with me. But a book? I can do that right now.

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## Livvie

john117 said:


> All done...
> 
> Only food for thought - it's amazing what material, emotional, intellectual, and even physical comforts we chucked in the altar of inflexibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Congrats on being all done with the process! I know it was a long haul.


----------



## john117

Yeah. Let's hear it for collaborative divorce. . 

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## Cynthia

FeministInPink said:


> Well, that makes sense given that there was a lot of shaming in my house growing up. I haven't seen a therapist about it yet--it's not financially viable at this point in time. But once I'm working with a real salary again, I do want to start seeing a therapist to deal with all of this crap going on with me. But a book? I can do that right now.


https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame?language=en

I did a quick Google search and came up with this: https://healingshame.com/self-help


----------



## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> So, I had a rough day yesterday. It was a low point in dealing with the end of my relationship with RE. The man who claimed not to want a relationship at all has moved on far more quickly that I ever expected... he clearly has a new girlfriend, and from what I can gather they got together maybe two months after he and I broke up. He could have told me--we've spoken since then--but I found out on Facebook. And it made me so, so angry, because I have been in so much pain and he replaced me so quickly, and it makes me wonder if I ever meant anything to him at all.
> 
> Anyway, I had a chat with a [formerly] mutual friend tonight (she let the friendship go quite a few months ago in an unrelated matter), and she helped me process and reminded me of why the relationship didn't work and why I'm better off without RE. So I made this, and printed it and taped it next to my bedroom door to help me keep things in mind. I had to share, because.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Holy crap FIP.....that meme is AWESOME.

I am so sorry that you are struggling with issues of shame and your ex moving on but there is science behind creating a meme like that. Listen to this Ted Talk his recommendation on listing all of your ex's bad qualities. You've essentially done that with your meme.

https://www.ted.com/talks/guy_winch_how_to_fix_a_broken_heart/transcript?language=en


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## FeministInPink

CynthiaDe said:


> https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame?language=en
> 
> 
> 
> I did a quick Google search and came up with this: https://healingshame.com/self-help


Thank you! I've seen some of her videos, and have been meaning to start reading her books. The videos resonated with me.

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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> Holy crap FIP.....that meme is AWESOME.
> 
> 
> 
> I am so sorry that you are struggling with issues of shame and your ex moving on but there is science behind creating a meme like that. Listen to this Ted Talk his recommendation on listing all of your ex's bad qualities. You've essentially done that with your meme.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ted.com/talks/guy_winch_how_to_fix_a_broken_heart/transcript?language=en


Thank you! I've edited the meme it to add narcissistic and manipulative, based on the convo with my friend. It helps.

I did something like this with my XH, and it helped a lot. It took a little longer to do it with RE, because it took longer for me to recognize his faults, given the timing of our breakup. With my XH, I was unhappy and wanted the relationship to end. With RE, I was happy and didn't want the relationship to end. So processing each has been different.

I'll check out the video.

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## 3Xnocharm

Another Planet said:


> Checking in. Will need to spend some time catching up with the Jones's. Hi to the new locals and seniors of the group




AP! Welcome back!!


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## AVR1962

I have come to a very different point of view on relationships since my divorce. I used to think commitment meant two people vowing to be faithful. Now I realize that hormones in the beginning of relationships really cloud us from seeing clearly. We REALLY have to get past that hormonal stage. It is only then that you will see each other for who you each are and at that time can you get to know each other. If a relationship doesn't work out, my thought is it wasn't meant to be but don't let it stop you. We can learn from each of our experiences.


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## FeministInPink

AVR1962 said:


> I have come to a very different point of view on relationships since my divorce. I used to think commitment meant two people vowing to be faithful. Now I realize that hormones in the beginning of relationships really cloud us from seeing clearly. We REALLY have to get past that hormonal stage. It is only then that you will see each other for who you each are and at that time can you get to know each other. If a relationship doesn't work out, my thought is it wasn't meant to be but don't let it stop you. We can learn from each of our experiences.


What does commitment/remaining faithful have to do with the second part, in your opinion?

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## AVR1962

FeministInPink said:


> What does commitment/remaining faithful have to do with the second part, in your opinion?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I don't see it solely as "commitment". Two people can be committed and take their vows at 100% of what they promised but that does not insure happiness, it does not mean forever. I think too many times we become involved too quickly, acting on the hormonal feeling we are having and thinking this will last, not knowing the real person. It takes getting past those hormones and letting those masks fall so we see the true person and who they are. So to go back to commitment......personally, I do not feel a true, loving commitment can happen before this stage mentioned. There are alot of cheating spouses but I feel for someone to be fully committed cheating is not possible.


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## 3Xnocharm

AVR1962 said:


> I don't see it solely as "commitment". Two people can be committed and take their vows at 100% of what they promised but that does not insure happiness, it does not mean forever. I* think too many times we become involved too quickly, acting on the hormonal feeling we are having and thinking this will last, not knowing the real person. It takes getting past those hormones and letting those masks fall so we see the true person and who they are. *So to go back to commitment......personally, I do not feel a true, loving commitment can happen before this stage mentioned. There are alot of cheating spouses but I feel for someone to be fully committed cheating is not possible.


This has been an issue with me, for sure.


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## Wolf1974

So she said yes! Went off perfectly and she had no idea I was going to ask. She loves the ring, the size was right, and she loved that I picked a lighthouse to do it
Still in Maine then back home tomorrow

Very happy and great weight off my shoulder. Keeping this from everyone was hard!

Sorry tried to upload photos but it says the files are to big. :frown2:


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## Wolf1974

AVR1962 said:


> I don't see it solely as "commitment". Two people can be committed and take their vows at 100% of what they promised but that does not insure happiness, it does not mean forever. I think too many times we become involved too quickly, acting on the hormonal feeling we are having and thinking this will last, not knowing the real person. It takes getting past those hormones and letting those masks fall so we see the true person and who they are. So to go back to commitment......personally, I do not feel a true, loving commitment can happen before this stage mentioned. There are alot of cheating spouses but I feel for someone to be fully committed cheating is not possible.


I agree it takes years and years to finally understand the whole person. I would love to see a requirement for a couple to be together 5 years before being able to apply for a marriage license. Maybe live together at least 2 of those. I bet divorce would go way way down


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## 3Xnocharm

Wolf1974 said:


> So she said yes! Went off perfectly and she had no idea I was going to ask. She loves the ring, the size was right, and she loved that I picked a lighthouse to do it
> Still in Maine then back home tomorrow
> 
> Very happy and great weight off my shoulder. Keeping this from everyone was hard!
> 
> Sorry tried to upload photos but it says the files are to big. :frown2:


YAY!!!! Congrats to you both!! :woohoo:


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## Lila

Wolf1974 said:


> So she said yes! Went off perfectly and she had no idea I was going to ask. She loves the ring, the size was right, and she loved that I picked a lighthouse to do it
> Still in Maine then back home tomorrow
> 
> Very happy and great weight off my shoulder. Keeping this from everyone was hard!
> 
> Sorry tried to upload photos but it says the files are to big. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" ></a>


Big congratulations! This is fantastic news.


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## AVR1962

Wolf1974 said:


> So she said yes! Went off perfectly and she had no idea I was going to ask. She loves the ring, the size was right, and she loved that I picked a lighthouse to do it
> Still in Maine then back home tomorrow
> 
> Very happy and great weight off my shoulder. Keeping this from everyone was hard!
> 
> Sorry tried to upload photos but it says the files are to big. :frown2:


Wonderful!!!! Congratulations!!!!!! Best wishes to you!


----------



## Not

So I’ve found a really good guy that I’m not speaking to right now lol! Long story short, I made an ass out of myself, he stopped talking to me, I apologized and he forgave me and now I’m to ashamed to face him and so I’m not talking to him. SMDH!! I made a mess of things. Help me! 

We’ve been seeing each other since the end of March but I haven’t seen him for a couple of weeks. I miss him, he misses me, we both think we have some really good potential but I’m afraid I’ll break down if I see him. I really made an ass out of myself. No, I won’t say what I did, I’m humiliated to the Nth degree though. I don’t know if this is pride, or fear or what. I want to see him but I don’t want to see him. I’m a mess. Part of me never wants to have to face him again but he wants me to call him when I’m ready. 

I don’t know how to move past this humiliation. If I don’t move past this I could miss out on something really good. I’m stuck!


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## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> So I’ve found a really good guy that I’m not speaking to right now lol! Long story short, I made an ass out of myself, he stopped talking to me, I apologized and he forgave me and now I’m to ashamed to face him and so I’m not talking to him. SMDH!! I made a mess of things. Help me!
> 
> 
> 
> We’ve been seeing each other since the end of March but I haven’t seen him for a couple of weeks. I miss him, he misses me, we both think we have some really good potential but I’m afraid I’ll break down if I see him. I really made an ass out of myself. No, I won’t say what I did, I’m humiliated to the Nth degree though. I don’t know if this is pride, or fear or what. I want to see him but I don’t want to see him. I’m a mess. Part of me never wants to have to face him again but he wants me to call him when I’m ready.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t know how to move past this humiliation. If I don’t move past this I could miss out on something really good. I’m stuck!




I realize you are embarrassed, but we would be in a much better position to offer advice if we knew what happened...



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## FeministInPink

@Wolf1974 YAY!!!! CONGRATS!!!!

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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I realize you are embarrassed, but we would be in a much better position to offer advice if we knew what happened...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah... @Not, we need to know what happened if you want advice. And this is a safe space. No one's going to judge you.

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## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> I realize you are embarrassed, but we would be in a much better position to offer advice if we knew what happened...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





FeministInPink said:


> Yeah... @Not, we need to know what happened if you want advice. And this is a safe space. No one's going to judge you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


This is hard! Because it’s so out of character for me.

This is an extension to what I wrote on Lila’s thread. I had planned on sleeping with him, for the first time, on a Friday a couple of weeks ago. He didn’t know, I wanted it to be a surprise. It didn’t happen though because he had to work late that day. I was totally fine about it and had planned on trying again another day. The next morning I get a call from one of the girls in my divorce group asking if I’m no longer seeing him because she saw him logged onto the dating website that morning.

I fell apart and what happened was a sort of mini breakdown that’s described in Lila’s thread. I began texting him some crazy stuff, nothing psycho, just told him what happened and that I wasn’t sure that I’m cut out for the dating world but I did all of this in sort of a long drawn out way that really was just way to much. Instead of asking him about it I jumped straight into feeling like I’m probably just something to keep him occupied until he finds someone better and that fueled some texts that are now so humiliating. The whole thing was just so icky.

In regards to him logging on that morning he said he was laying in bed checking his email on his phone that morning and had a ton of junk messages from the website so he logged on to clear those out. That website will send a ton of messages via email if you don’t turn the settings for emails off. I do believe him.

I’m never like this but he’s seen it and now can’t unsee it. I did explain a lot of things to him when I apologized. My history and having so much trouble with stress over the last couple of years and apparently not coping as well as I thought I was. 

So there it is, the whole icky mess. During this episode I hadn’t made the connection to my breakdown in October yet so I didn’t realize why I was reacting so strongly or rather I thought I was justified in my reaction without realizing what I was reacting to wasn’t him, it was something else.

Now I’m hiding under my rock and don’t want to come out.


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## Hexagon

Not said:


> I wasn’t sure that I’m cut out for the dating world
> Now I’m hiding under my rock and don’t want to come out.



I'm not entirely sure this is a bad thing. Being single now seems completely different than being single years ago. 
I've told someone recently that if you value your own moral standards, then buckle up or get comfortable with droughts. This is especially true if you have a small dating pool to choose from or are just plain picky. Sorry for just jumping in your conversation but this stood out to me.


----------



## Not

Hexagon said:


> I'm not entirely sure this is a bad thing. Being single now seems completely different than being single years ago.
> I've told someone recently that if you value your own moral standards, then buckle up or get comfortable with droughts. This is especially true if you have a small dating pool to choose from or are just plain picky. Sorry for just jumping in your conversation but this stood out to me.


He and I have talked about that. Dating now is so weird, like unnatural. Instead of meeting someone out in the wild and things happening naturally over time it’s now more like a job interview with lots of pressure to perform correctly but you have no idea what correctly is! It’s like a weird guessing game. It’s so hard to relax and just be yourself and let things flow naturally. All of that added to my stress levels tremendously and I see now that dating will not work for me when I’m feeling like that. He hates dating too, says it sucks lol! 

I hear you about the dating pool. There are lots of people in my area but I’m extremely picky so meeting someone with the qualities that are important to me seemed impossible. I think I got lucky with this one, he seems to be looking for the same things I’m looking for. We’re both lonely but unwilling to settle and we both focus intently on what the other is saying. We had a conversation about how we were both observing each other and observing ourselves as we observed each other. The other guys I had gone out with wouldn’t have been interested in something like that. It’s that kind of thing that I’m looking for. 

Then I go and do what I did, which is not what either of us is looking for. He’s had to buckle up with me.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> This is hard! Because it’s so out of character for me.
> 
> 
> 
> This is an extension to what I wrote on Lila’s thread. I had planned on sleeping with him, for the first time, on a Friday a couple of weeks ago. He didn’t know, I wanted it to be a surprise. It didn’t happen though because he had to work late that day. I was totally fine about it and had planned on trying again another day. The next morning I get a call from one of the girls in my divorce group asking if I’m no longer seeing him because she saw him logged onto the dating website that morning.
> 
> 
> 
> I fell apart and what happened was a sort of mini breakdown that’s described in Lila’s thread. I began texting him some crazy stuff, nothing psycho, just told him what happened and that I wasn’t sure that I’m cut out for the dating world but I did all of this in sort of a long drawn out way that really was just way to much. Instead of asking him about it I jumped straight into feeling like I’m probably just something to keep him occupied until he finds someone better and that fueled some texts that are now so humiliating. The whole thing was just so icky.
> 
> 
> 
> In regards to him logging on that morning he said he was laying in bed checking his email on his phone that morning and had a ton of junk messages from the website so he logged on to clear those out. That website will send a ton of messages via email if you don’t turn the settings for emails off. I do believe him.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m never like this but he’s seen it and now can’t unsee it. I did explain a lot of things to him when I apologized. My history and having so much trouble with stress over the last couple of years and apparently not coping as well as I thought I was.
> 
> 
> 
> So there it is, the whole icky mess. During this episode I hadn’t made the connection to my breakdown in October yet so I didn’t realize why I was reacting so strongly or rather I thought I was justified in my reaction without realizing what I was reacting to wasn’t him, it was something else.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I’m hiding under my rock and don’t want to come out.




Ok I don’t think this is all that bad, as long as you didn’t get insulting or anything. And based on the fact he wants to see you I’d say that you didn’t and that nothing irreparable has happened. If you guys are on the same wavelength about the whole dating scene i think that’s positive. Go see him! 


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## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> Ok I don’t think this is all that bad, as long as you didn’t get insulting or anything. And based on the fact he wants to see you I’d say that you didn’t and that nothing irreparable has happened. If you guys are on the same wavelength about the whole dating scene i think that’s positive. Go see him!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m recovering from surgery so I’m using that as an excuse, to myself, to continue being a chicken for now. After recovery I guess I either face him or walk away and I don’t want to walk away. I don’t know why this is so hard.


----------



## honcho

Not said:


> I’m recovering from surgery so I’m using that as an excuse, to myself, to continue being a chicken for now. After recovery I guess I either face him or walk away and I don’t want to walk away. I don’t know why this is so hard.


Your making it hard. Nobody is perfect and obviously you didn't scare him off so relax and see where things lead. 

Dating is a much different beast than it was years ago. I hate all the games these days. 

On a different note I got a very revealing text about an hour ago only the text wasn't meant for me but some guy named alan. I've seen the woman in the picture attached to the text around town, had no idea she was pierced in some places....anyway looks like alan is in for a fun evening except she texted the wrong number.......

Life lesson, make sure the number when texting. >


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## AVR1962

You said what you did, he has accepted it, let it go and move on. I think ladies tend to be confident and thinking all men are players but we have to come down from all that and realize men are looking for relationships too. If we always suspect that a man is not sincere we keep our self on guard and cannot get close. If he is not sincere it will be apparent without you looking for it. I think they doubt we portray with all of our questioning to know their feelings can cause them to back away which I completely understand.....I have had men do this to me and it drives me crazy! So let it go, enjoy and congratulation!


----------



## Not

honcho said:


> Your making it hard. Nobody is perfect and obviously you didn't scare him off so relax and see where things lead.
> 
> Dating is a much different beast than it was years ago. I hate all the games these days.
> 
> On a different note I got a very revealing text about an hour ago only the text wasn't meant for me but some guy named alan. I've seen the woman in the picture attached to the text around town, had no idea she was pierced in some places....anyway looks like alan is in for a fun evening except she texted the wrong number.......
> 
> Life lesson, make sure the number when texting. >


I may be. It’s like neither side wants to come right out and say what they really want to say because then you’re left vulnerable and each side suffers not knowing what the other is thinking! It’s crazy and it sucks lol!

That text is hilarious! Did you let her know it was the wrong number? I totally would have lol! I got this a couple of months ago. Wrong number too, made my day. Showed it to everyone lol! The guy called about an hour later and I had to break the news that he was given the wrong number. :grin2:


----------



## Not

AVR1962 said:


> You said what you did, he has accepted it, let it go and move on. *I think ladies tend to be confident and thinking all men are players but we have to come down from all that and realize men are looking for relationships too. *If we always suspect that a man is not sincere we keep our self on guard and cannot get close. If he is not sincere it will be apparent without you looking for it. I think they doubt we portray with all of our questioning to know their feelings can cause them to back away which I completely understand.....I have had men do this to me and it drives me crazy! So let it go, enjoy and congratulation!


To the bolded, yes! I do think I went into the whole online dating thing with that attitude. And I think you’re right, insincerity will show itself. I’m not understanding what you mean about our questioning to know their feelings, can you elaborate a bit more?


----------



## AVR1962

Not said:


> To the bolded, yes! I do think I went into the whole online dating thing with that attitude. And I think you’re right, insincerity will show itself. I’m not understanding what you mean about our questioning to know their feelings, can you elaborate a bit more?


What I was trying to say is that when dating one person can continually push the questions of "What are your feelings towards me?" "Are you sincere?" "Are you happy with me?" the list goes on. I usually hear it from my male friends who are dating women but it does happen the other way around too. I dated this one guy briefly and he was always asking, "What do you like about me?" My thoughts are, enjoy your time together, let the relationship evolve naturally without all the questions. I feel the questions show insecurity. Make your statements on how you feel and allow the other person to reciprocate. 

Yes, I agree with you about dating nowadays, I do not care for the online dating scene. And I agree, there are men out there looking for relationships and I have found that they have been upfront in saying so.


----------



## FeministInPink

@Not So you owned it, and he seemed to be ok with it?

Let me ask you... when you had decided that you were going to sleep with him, had you already had the discussion about exclusivity? I'm thinking that you were hoping for exclusivity (and that he felt the same), and learning that he logged into the dating site represented a threat. (If you had discussed and agreed to exclusivity, this is even a bigger threat.)

Look... if this happened, and he still wants to see you, that means he is into you. Men will put up with a lot of batcrap crazy behavior from women they are into. (On the flip side of the coin, men can do things that trigger women's batcrap behavior, if we are not aware of ourselves.) And if you haven't been completely forthcoming with your feelings for him, in a weird way, he may have found your behavior flattering and confirmed for him that you were invested.

So swallow your pride, get together with him, forgive yourself and learn how to laugh about it. The longer you wait, the more likely it is that he will have moved on and you will have missed your chance with him. And for what, your pride? To have a successful relationship, you have to be willing to be vulnerable, and that is very brave. Be brave and move forward.

I also think that you may want to learn a little bit about attachment style theory. Find out what your attachment style is, and see if that helps you.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Not

AVR1962 said:


> What I was trying to say is that when dating one person can continually push the questions of "What are your feelings towards me?" "Are you sincere?" "Are you happy with me?" the list goes on. I usually hear it from my male friends who are dating women but it does happen the other way around too. I dated this one guy briefly and he was always asking, "What do you like about me?" My thoughts are, enjoy your time together, let the relationship evolve naturally without all the questions. I feel the questions show insecurity. Make your statements on how you feel and allow the other person to reciprocate.
> 
> Yes, I agree with you about dating nowadays, I do not care for the online dating scene. And I agree, there are men out there looking for relationships and I have found that they have been upfront in saying so.


Yes, I think you’re spot on. The funny part is that I think we both know that questions look like insecurity so neither of us has really asked those types of questions and that adds to the frustration as well. On my end, I’ve been watching his body language very closely in an attempt to try to read him but it’s so hard to read someone you just met and someone who seems to be just as nervous as I am lol! The nerves prevent you from relaxing. 

He’s had some really bad luck with online dating so he’s more leary than I am. He met someone online two years ago he fell for and it turned out she was married and totally playing him. She spun so many lies he got suspicious and looked into her background. So we’re both a little messy in our own ways right now.


----------



## Not

FeministInPink said:


> @Not So you owned it, and he seemed to be ok with it?
> 
> Let me ask you... when you had decided that you were going to sleep with him, had you already had the discussion about exclusivity? I'm thinking that you were hoping for exclusivity (and that he felt the same), and learning that he logged into the dating site represented a threat. (If you had discussed and agreed to exclusivity, this is even a bigger threat.)
> 
> Look... if this happened, and he still wants to see you, that means he is into you. Men will put up with a lot of batcrap crazy behavior from women they are into. (On the flip side of the coin, men can do things that trigger women's batcrap behavior, if we are not aware of ourselves.) And if you haven't been completely forthcoming with your feelings for him, in a weird way, he may have found your behavior flattering and confirmed for him that you were invested.
> 
> So swallow your pride, get together with him, forgive yourself and learn how to laugh about it. The longer you wait, the more likely it is that he will have moved on and you will have missed your chance with him. And for what, your pride? To have a successful relationship, you have to be willing to be vulnerable, and that is very brave. Be brave and move forward.
> 
> I also think that you may want to learn a little bit about attachment style theory. Find out what your attachment style is, and see if that helps you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You’ve read the situation correctly. The only thing you’ve missed is my issue with feeling discardable I mentioned in Lila’s thread, that’s where the crazy came from on my part. We had not had the exclusivity discussion in full per se, just some talk about sex in general. I think we both assumed exclusivity and after my melt down he did say he didn’t want to see anyone else. But the threat you mention is what fueled everything. I was like an instant kick to the stomach when I found out he had been logged on and my feelings of insecurity took full control from there.

I hadn’t thought about the whole thing as being something that confirmed for him that I am sincere! Not how I wanted that part to go but I can see that!

Thank you FIP! I’m off to research attachment style theory now.


----------



## Lila

Oh my gosh @Not have got to check out Brene Brown's Netflix special. She"s a psychologist who studies vulnerability and fear. I cried like a baby watching her special. It hit so close to home. 

She discusses how being brave is hard. 
It opens us up to failure and rejection but it also opens us to love, belonging, and creativity. If you have Netflix, I highly encourage you watch it.


----------



## Lila

honcho said:


> Your making it hard. Nobody is perfect and obviously you didn't scare him off so relax and see where things lead.
> 
> Dating is a much different beast than it was years ago. I hate all the games these days.
> 
> On a different note I got a very revealing text about an hour ago only the text wasn't meant for me but some guy named alan. I've seen the woman in the picture attached to the text around town, had no idea she was pierced in some places....anyway looks like alan is in for a fun evening except she texted the wrong number.......
> 
> Life lesson, make sure the number when texting. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a>


That's hilarious and also life lesson #236.... Never send out photos unless you don't care who will see them. 

On a similar note...I keep getting text messages from "J" asking me to come over to "smoke". I have no idea who this J is IRL but he can't seem to figure out he's texting the wrong number even after I respond to him telling him so. Could be a result of the "savage herb" (his words) he's looking to share. Anyway, about the fifth time he messaged me, I responded that he had the wrong number BUT since he was sooo adamant about inviting me over, that I was finally going to take him up on his offer. I did this thinking he'd finally get the feeling message to stop texting my number. Well it sort of worked. He thought it was funny and now "J" and I are pen pals. Couldn't make this **** up if I tried.


----------



## Lila

So I need some singles advice. I'm going to preface my post by saying that I have a very hard time "rejecting" (I hate that word) nice people. 

I attended a couple of events recently through one of social groups. One particular member is obviously interested in me but hasn't come out and said anything. He just sort of follows me around and tries to monopolize my attention. I honestly think it's because I'm nice to him but I'm nice to everyone. Anyways, I'm not interested in him beyond a friend. How does one go about extricating themselves from a situation like this without being mean? I don't want to hurt his feelings. 

2nd singles issue.... I have a reaaaallly hard time keeping eye contact with random men. For example, I was at an event and the guy at the table across from me was staring straight at me. I saw him come in and thought he was super attractive. I could NOT for the life of me force myself to look at his eyes while he was staring at me. I'd only look when he wasn't looking. I'm sure he thought I was not interested. Dammit I WAS interested. How do you ladies (and gents) do it?


----------



## attheend02

Lila said:


> 2nd singles issue.... I have a reaaaallly hard time keeping eye contact with random men. For example, I was at an event and the guy at the table across from me was staring straight at me. I saw him come in and thought he was super attractive. I could NOT for the life of me force myself to look at his eyes while he was staring at me. I'd only look when he wasn't looking. I'm sure he thought I was not interested. Dammit I WAS interested. How do you ladies (and gents) do it?



Go talk to him.. its really easy to keep eye contact while talking to someone.

I have NEVER been upset when a woman has approached me.


----------



## Lila

attheend02 said:


> Go talk to him.. its really easy to keep eye contact while talking to someone.
> 
> I have NEVER been upset when a woman has approached me.


Oh no, no, no, no.....{in the voice of Consuela (maid) on Family Guy}

Just the thought of doing that makes me start sweating. I wouldn't make it three steps without hyper ventilating. 

This guy was in a pack and I was with my girlfriend. I could have signaled him over (if I had the balls) but there was no way I was going to infiltrate the pack.


----------



## attheend02

Lila said:


> Oh no, no, no, no.....{in the voice of Consuela (maid) on Family Guy}
> 
> Just the thought of doing that makes me start sweating. I wouldn't make it three steps without hyper ventilating.
> 
> This guy was in a pack and I was with my girlfriend. I could have signaled him over (if I had the balls) but there was no way I was going to infiltrate the pack.


Don't worry, I know just how you feel... Beta that I am.


----------



## Lila

attheend02 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, no, no, no.....{in the voice of Consuela (maid) on Family Guy}
> 
> Just the thought of doing that makes me start sweating. I wouldn't make it three steps without hyper ventilating.
> 
> This guy was in a pack and I was with my girlfriend. I could have signaled him over (if I had the balls) but there was no way I was going to infiltrate the pack.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, I know just how you feel... Beta that I am. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
Click to expand...

Wait a minute.... You're telling me to throw myself out there but you won't do it?! This is one of those jump out of the airplane situations. You do it first and I'll follow, lol.


----------



## attheend02

Lila said:


> Wait a minute.... You're telling me to throw myself out there but you won't do it?! This is one of those jump out of the airplane situations. You do it first and I'll follow, lol.


I've been working on it... It doesn't seem to get any easier, though. 

At least you get to expect some one to approach you (said in my whiny beta voice).


----------



## 3Xnocharm

attheend02 said:


> I've been working on it... It doesn't seem to get any easier, though.
> 
> At least you get to expect some one to approach you (said in my whiny beta voice).


I swear I am never going to approach another man again lol... Men DO NOT APPROACH ME. I dont know why. Plenty of men I know have expressed to me that I am attractive and that I am someone that men are comfortable around. So what is the damn problem?? I would not have been in any of my long term relationships if I had not been the one to initiate, so that tells me right there that I seriously need to NOT. Worst picker ever! I guess its likely because I am introverted and that I assume comes across to men, so they figure why bother. 

Very frustrating, for sure.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> So I need some singles advice. I'm going to preface my post by saying that I have a very hard time "rejecting" (I hate that word) nice people.
> 
> I attended a couple of events recently through one of social groups. One particular member is obviously interested in me but hasn't come out and said anything. He just sort of follows me around and tries to monopolize my attention. I honestly think it's because I'm nice to him but I'm nice to everyone. Anyways, I'm not interested in him beyond a friend. How does one go about extricating themselves from a situation like this without being mean? I don't want to hurt his feelings.
> 
> 2nd singles issue.... I have a reaaaallly hard time keeping eye contact with random men. For example, I was at an event and the guy at the table across from me was staring straight at me. I saw him come in and thought he was super attractive. I could NOT for the life of me force myself to look at his eyes while he was staring at me. I'd only look when he wasn't looking. I'm sure he thought I was not interested. Dammit I WAS interested. How do you ladies (and gents) do it?


First issue, sorry babe. You gotta suck it up and just do it, gentle and easy. So far if the one you mentioned hasn't asked you out or for your number, you are still safe. When/if the time comes you have to let him down easy, you'll know what to do at the time.

Second issue. I'm sure you did fine. I don't think a guy expects or even necessarily wants us to lock eyes with him fervently. Glancing at him and then glancing away when he looks is perfectly fine, ladylike behavior, yet still shows interest. If you really think he did not see you checking him out at all, then glancing a bit longer until he does is all you need to do. Catching someone checking you out discreetly more than once is all we need to know. From there, it's on him if he wants to approach you. Or you can too, if you feel the right vibe going on. 

At lot of times, the checking each other out happens, and neither of you are in a place where you are free to have a conversation, like you said he was with a group of guys. When that happens, oh well, just think of the dreamy eyes all day. Sometimes that's all we get.


----------



## Lila

attheend02 said:


> I've been working on it... It doesn't seem to get any easier, though.
> 
> At least you get to expect some one to approach you (said in my whiny beta voice).


It is rare for me to get approached or hit on in public so much so that I looked over my shoulder to see if there was anyone standing behind me when the guy was staring. I even asked my girlfriend if I had lipstick on my teeth 😄 😄. 

I am also an extrovert and not shy around people but I can't seem to be like that around someone I am interested in AND who is interested in me. I have issues.


----------



## attheend02

3Xnocharm said:


> I swear I am never going to approach another man again lol... Men DO NOT APPROACH ME. I dont know why. Plenty of men I know have expressed to me that I am attractive and that I am someone that men are comfortable around. So what is the damn problem?? I would not have been in any of my long term relationships if I had not been the one to initiate, so that tells me right there that I seriously need to NOT. Worst picker ever! I guess its likely because I am introverted and that I assume comes across to men, so they figure why bother.
> 
> Very frustrating, for sure.


If I remember correctly, you like musicians. That's a picker problem right there.. Ego city... just looking to be fed. (Sorry musicians).


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> First issue, sorry babe. You gotta suck it up and just do it, gentle and easy. So far if the one you mentioned hasn't asked you out or for your number, you are still safe. When/if the time comes you have to let him down easy, you'll know what to do at the time.



I'm safe but he's sort of or orbiting. He's a sweet person but man can he talk....and talk.....and talk. I need someone to keep me calm not jack me up.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

attheend02 said:


> If I remember correctly, you like musicians. That's a picker problem right there.. Ego city... just looking to be fed. (Sorry musicians).




Honestly my current guy is the only musician I’ve ever been involved with! I wish my picker problem was that easy!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blondilocks

Lila said:


> Oh no, no, no, no.....{in the voice of Consuela (maid) on Family Guy}
> 
> Just the thought of doing that makes me start sweating. I wouldn't make it three steps without hyper ventilating.
> 
> This guy was in a pack and I was with my girlfriend. I could have signaled him over (if I had the balls) but there was no way I was going to infiltrate the pack.


A smile costs you nothing. Even if he was checking out a girl behind you, all you did was smile. 

Remember - no guts, no glory. Now, paste a smile on your face and practice tilting your head signaling a question. A raised eyebrow wouldn't hurt, if you're feeling bold.

You've got the goods - you just need to advertise they're available. Good luck, girl!


----------



## Lila

Blondilocks said:


> A smile costs you nothing. Even if he was checking out a girl behind you, all you did was smile.


I have the smile thing down pat. Now I gotta work on eye contact. And avoiding the deer in the headlights look. 😄 😄



> Remember - *no guts, no glory*. Now, paste a smile on your face and practice tilting your head signaling a question. A raised eyebrow wouldn't hurt, if you're feeling bold.
> 
> You've got the goods - you just need to advertise they're available. Good luck, girl!


If I wasn't such a chicken when it comes to pain I would tattoo that on my wrist as a constant reminder. 

My girlfriend is like that. We are both extroverts but she is super bold. I love watching her in action.


----------



## farsidejunky

Blondilocks said:


> A smile costs you nothing. Even if he was checking out a girl behind you, all you did was smile.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember - no guts, no glory. Now, paste a smile on your face and practice tilting your head signaling a question. A raised eyebrow wouldn't hurt, if you're feeling bold.
> 
> 
> 
> You've got the goods - you just need to advertise they're available. Good luck, girl!


A guy pack is not quite the same as a girl pack.

IME, guy packs are successful if they split by the end of the night due to them finding a lady to hang with.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> It is rare for me to get approached or hit on in public so much so that I looked over my shoulder to see if there was anyone standing behind me when the guy was staring. I even asked my girlfriend if I had lipstick on my teeth 😄 😄.
> 
> I am also an extrovert and not shy around people but I can't seem to be like that around someone I am interested in AND who is interested in me. I have issues.


Gurl, this is so me. If I'm not interested, then I have no problem approaching a stranger or chatting up a storm. But if I'm interested? I absolutely clam up.

For me, I'm certain it has to do with FOO issues, more specifically my mother and the "lessons" she taught me.

I've also learned recently that I am, apparently, intimidating. I think that was the word used by two separate people in two separate settings and circumstances. If this is the case, I imagine it would take a very confident man to approach me.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Blondilocks

farsidejunky said:


> A guy pack is not quite the same as a girl pack.
> 
> IME, guy packs are successful if they split by the end of the night due to them finding a lady to hang with.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Please explain the significance of the 'guy pack' to the actions I outlined for Lila.


----------



## farsidejunky

Blondilocks said:


> Please explain the significance of the 'guy pack' to the actions I outlined for Lila.


I have told been told by countless females that you never approach a female in a group of more than two, because they will frequently circle the wagons, even if there is interest.

Conversely, every 'guy pack' I have ever been a part of (while out at bars or nightclubs) was there to find a lady to talk to.

In fairness, maybe I was told this because I was not found to be attractive enough to make it past the group's gatekeeper, which every female pack has. My relative successes in dating suggest otherwise.

Significance? My money would have been on him welcoming your advances.

That sort of thing occasionally happened to me. If I found the female even remotely attractive, I would be more than happy to find a table for two to chat for a few minutes, if nothing else.


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> I'm safe but he's sort of or orbiting. He's a sweet person but man can he talk....and talk.....and talk. I need someone to keep me calm not jack me up.


He also might be blocking potential mates from approaching if he appears to always be in your orbit.

Practice a confident look with a fun smile for when you catch another hot guy looking your way.

You don't have to hold it long.


----------



## Blondilocks

farsidejunky said:


> I have told been told by countless females that you never approach a female in a group of more than two, because they will frequently circle the wagons, even if there is interest.
> 
> Conversely, every 'guy pack' I have ever been a part of (while out at bars or nightclubs) was there to find a lady to talk to.
> 
> In fairness, maybe I was told this because I was not found to be attractive enough to make it past the group's gatekeeper, which every female pack has. My relative successes in dating suggest otherwise.
> 
> Significance? My money would have been on him welcoming your advances.
> 
> That sort of thing occasionally happened to me. If I found the female even remotely attractive, I would be more than happy to find a table for two to chat for a few minutes, if nothing else.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Ah, I think I found my disconnect - you were responding to Lila's quote which I quoted. Totally agree about a guy welcoming a girl's advances when they are in a pack. Even if the guy isn't interested, he'll be getting some respect from his mates.


----------



## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> Gurl, this is so me. If I'm not interested, then I have no problem approaching a stranger or chatting up a storm. But if I'm interested? I absolutely clam up.
> 
> For me, I'm certain it has to do with FOO issues, more specifically my mother and the "lessons" she taught me.
> 
> *I've also learned recently that I am, apparently, intimidating. I think that was the word used by two separate people in two separate settings and circumstances. If this is the case, I imagine it would take a very confident man to approach me.
> *
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


 @3Xnocharm, have you ever been told you are intimidating? I wonder if there is something to this. 
@FeministInPink, do you normally do the approaching?


----------



## Lila

Code:







farsidejunky said:


> I have told been told by countless females that you never approach a female in a group of more than two, because they will frequently circle the wagons, even if there is interest.
> 
> Conversely, every 'guy pack' I have ever been a part of (while out at bars or nightclubs) was there to find a lady to talk to.
> 
> In fairness, maybe I was told this because I was not found to be attractive enough to make it past the group's gatekeeper, which every female pack has. My relative successes in dating suggest otherwise.
> 
> Significance? My money would have been on him welcoming your advances.
> 
> That sort of thing occasionally happened to me. If I found the female even remotely attractive, I would be more than happy to find a table for two to chat for a few minutes, if nothing else.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Baby steps. I need to work through not feeling like a toad if a I get rejected first. 

This all happened at an event in a museum. It would have been different if I had engaged him in conversation while strolling around but we were all standing at our respective highboys in the atrium. There is no chance of probable deniability.


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> He also might be blocking potential mates from approaching if he appears to always be in your orbit.
> 
> Practice a confident look with a fun smile for when you catch another hot guy looking your way.
> 
> You don't have to hold it long.


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


>


Oooo baby!:smthumbup:

You better take that down before your messages fill up!:grin2:


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> Oooo baby!:smthumbup:
> 
> You better take that down before your messages fill up!:grin2:


I have to practice it a bit more before I can go live :laugh:


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> @3Xnocharm, have you ever been told you are intimidating? I wonder if there is something to this.



I haven’t, not that I can remember. I have a feeling something about me comes off as unapproachable tho, I mentioned being an introvert... maybe that puts out a vibe of “stay away” that is unintentional?? I’m super awkward if I make any kind of effort to show interest, so not sure what the solution is there. Either way I don’t get approached!

The reality of me though is that I’m easy going and am like one of the guys, so guys are usually really comfortable with me once I get the chance. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 2&out

Interesting reading. I will ditto the no guts - no glory. And add. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Winners keep trying to win - until they do. Losers don't.


----------



## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> @FeministInPink, do you normally do the approaching?


When I was younger (in college, before I met my XH), hells yeah. I was always shy with boys in high school... and honestly, there weren't many boys whom I considered worth my time and energy in high school. But I came out of my shell in college. Part of it was because I found my people there, and I was well known and really popular, which was an absolute surprise to me! (I was even on the Homecoming Court my senior year, can you imagine???) I had no problem asking guys out on dates... My junior year, Mr. Billy Popular took me to the fall formal, and EVERYONE was asking me how I managed that, because he never dated anybody, and my answer was, "Simple, I JUST ASKED HIM." I landed the guys that everyone else had crushes on. A friend of mine once made a comment about me: "FiP is the only girl I know who can walk into a party, point, and say, 'I'm taking home that guy tonight,' and actually DO it. Every. Single. Time." And most of those guys pursued me hard for a relationship after that, and I would usually date them for a little while until I didn't want to anymore. 

Now, I don't. Partially because it's exhausting to always be the one doing the approaching, and I want a man who is confident enough to approach me. Also my self-confidence and -esteem took a big hit after my divorce, and I can't say that I've fully recovered from that, but I'm far better off than I was a few years ago. But my biggest reason for not approaching is that I've decided that I'm taking 2019 to focus on me, and to get my crap together and work on creating the life and the future that I want. I'm on a hiatus, and I'm not putting myself out there at all. I'm not on the apps, and I'm not approaching men or looking for men to approach me. I'm just doing my own thing. If an opportunity presents itself (himself), I'm not going to let it (him) pass me by, but he's got to seriously knock me off my feet if he wants my time and attention.

But it was easier in college. Most of the guys, I knew them peripherally in one way or another. None of the guys I "approached" was a complete stranger, and we already had something in common to talk about, because we went to the same school. Dating outside of that environment is very different.


----------



## Another Planet

FeministInPink said:


> AP! Give us an update!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I will when I have a weekend to talk about it cause its deep and will take me time to work through. But I have been thinking of you all this entire time how I wish I had some time to sit down and talk with you all cause I know you are all very knowledgeable and unbiased and straight forward...I am in trouble for sure lets just say...I have broken my rules and our rules we have set and practiced here in singles of TAM. It's not a post for singles of TAM though since I'm in a relationship so I will post in the commons section when I can maybe after this weekend cause we have a big party going on all weekend. Lets just say it's been rocky for a couple years of the 5yrs of relationship and there is another woman involved now. If anyone remembers anything about my story and women that are involved it's a redo of the scenario.

I do want to say to any newbies or anyone else lingering that the folks here especially the vets really do know what they are talking about so let them help you!


----------



## FeministInPink

Another Planet said:


> I will when I have a weekend to talk about it cause its deep and will take me time to work through. But I have been thinking of you all this entire time how I wish I had some time to sit down and talk with you all cause I know you are all very knowledgeable and unbiased and straight forward...I am in trouble for sure lets just say...I have broken my rules and our rules we have set and practiced here in singles of TAM. It's not a post for singles of TAM though since I'm in a relationship so I will post in the commons section when I can maybe after this weekend cause we have a big party going on all weekend. Lets just say it's been rocky for a couple years of the 5yrs of relationship and there is another woman involved now. If anyone remembers anything about my story and women that are involved it's a redo of the scenario.
> 
> I do want to say to any newbies or anyone else lingering that the folks here especially the vets really do know what they are talking about so let them help you!


When you start the thread, post a link here so we can find it. We want to help you any way we can.

Sending love and *hugs*


----------



## Lila

3Xnocharm said:


> I haven’t, not that I can remember. I have a feeling something about me comes off as unapproachable tho, I mentioned being an introvert... maybe that puts out a vibe of “stay away” that is unintentional?? *I’m super awkward if I make any kind of effort to show interest, so not sure what the solution is there. *Either way I don’t get approached!
> 
> The reality of me though is that I’m easy going and am like one of the guys, so guys are usually really comfortable with me once I get the chance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh I can relate to the awkwardness. I talk with my hands when I get excited. I tend to knock drinks off tables/hands whenever I'm approached by someone whose interested. It's embarrassing. 

You say you're comfortable with the guys but an introvert. Do you flirt?


----------



## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> When I was younger (in college, before I met my XH), hells yeah. I was always shy with boys in high school... and honestly, there weren't many boys whom I considered worth my time and energy in high school. But I came out of my shell in college. Part of it was because I found my people there, and I was well known and really popular, which was an absolute surprise to me! (I was even on the Homecoming Court my senior year, can you imagine???) I had no problem asking guys out on dates... My junior year, Mr. Billy Popular took me to the fall formal, and EVERYONE was asking me how I managed that, because he never dated anybody, and my answer was, "Simple, I JUST ASKED HIM." I landed the guys that everyone else had crushes on. A friend of mine once made a comment about me: "FiP is the only girl I know who can walk into a party, point, and say, 'I'm taking home that guy tonight,' and actually DO it. Every. Single. Time." And most of those guys pursued me hard for a relationship after that, and I would usually date them for a little while until I didn't want to anymore.


I'm sure you can feel my envy from where you're at. Lol



> Now, I don't. Partially because it's exhausting to always be the one doing the approaching, and I want a man who is confident enough to approach me. Also my self-confidence and -esteem took a big hit after my divorce, and I can't say that I've fully recovered from that, but I'm far better off than I was a few years ago. But my biggest reason for not approaching is that I've decided that I'm taking 2019 to focus on me, and to get my crap together and work on creating the life and the future that I want. I'm on a hiatus, and I'm not putting myself out there at all. I'm not on the apps, and I'm not approaching men or looking for men to approach me. I'm just doing my own thing. If an opportunity presents itself (himself), I'm not going to let it (him) pass me by, but he's got to seriously knock me off my feet if he wants my time and attention.


I'd like to ask what you are doing to work towards your goals but don't know if it's appropriate for this thread. Maybe I'll create a goals thread under social. 



> But it was easier in college. Most of the guys, I knew them peripherally in one way or another. None of the guys I "approached" was a complete stranger, and we already had something in common to talk about, because we went to the same school. Dating outside of that environment is very different.


Ain't that the truth. I liken it to cold calling in business.


----------



## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> I'm sure you can feel my envy from where you're at. Lol


Girl, that was a LONG time ago. I envy that girl myself.



Lila said:


> I'd like to ask what you are doing to work towards your goals but don't know if it's appropriate for this thread. Maybe I'll create a goals thread under social.


I'm perfectly happy to answer that here. I've contemplated posting about them, and since you've asked, I might as well.

Like I said, my overarching goal is to focus on ME, which is kind of nebulous, so I'll break it down into some smaller chunks.

First... figure out what I really want out of life. Where do I want to be, what do I want to do with my life, what kind of life do I envision for myself? I realized after Real Estate and I broke up, I had really never thought about any of that JUST FOR MYSELF. In the past, whenever considering these things, I was always prioritizing other people, their wants, and their expectations over my own. I made decisions for my future based on what my parents wanted, and then my XH, and then later, even for RE. But what about me? I realized for the first time in my life, I don't give a flying F what anyone else thinks or wants from me. All these other people who I was prioritizing NEVER gave me the priority or power I was giving them, so why was I giving away my power? Why was I giving away my choice? And when I started to think like that, it was like the sky opened up and all of a sudden I could have any life that I wanted, if I made that choice and worked towards it.

So, I started thinking... what really makes me happy? Because I want to be happy in my own skin and make my own happiness, rather than thinking that a relationship will finally make me complete and happy. I wanted that from my parents, and they failed at that, so I continued to seek it in other relationships, and all those men failed me, too. And I would rather be happy than alone than continually seeking relationships which never really make me happy, because if I can't be happy alone then I won't really be happy paired up, will I? 

So, what do I want? I am happiest when I am traveling and experiencing new things and places, and what I want more than anything is to see more of the world, and at any given time I've either lacked the money or the time to do it. But professionally, I also want to do something that is of service. After a lot of thought and consideration, I've decided that I want to become a foreign service officer. It's going to take a lot of studying and work on my own to make it all the way through the selection process, and it could take several years.

I need to find another job in the meantime. I'm tired of living with roommates and I want my own space again, and I also want more financial security than I have now. So, some other goals are:
- new job
- learn to better manage my money (read: change my relationship with money) so I can be more financially secure and save
- buy a condo two years after getting the new job

I also want to focus on my mental and emotional health to better take care of myself (hello, self love!). I recognize that I have an anxious attachment style, and I want to work on this; I also want to learn better coping strategies to manage my ADHD tendencies. (I haven't been diagnosed as having ADHD, but the more I learn, the more I recognize that I have many of these tendencies, even if I don't actually have ADHD.) 

I also want to get more organized just from a "stuff" perspective, and make my private space in the house more tidy and pleasant... I may not have my own place yet, but I want the space I do have to better reflect me and the person I mean to be. TBH, my space is a DISASTER, and I deserve better. The house that I grew up in was always a disaster, and my mom wasn't quite hoarder-level packrat, but it was still bad. We never had a clean house, EVER... and I think I internalized that I didn't deserve any better. And I need to remind myself (like with my meme about RE), I deserve better than this mess. I deserve a nice, relaxing space to live in. So, I'm going to Marie Kondo the crap out of my space.

I also want to focus on my physical health... working out, eating better. But I really think that is phase two. I need to get some of the above stuff accomplished before focusing on physical health. I can only do so much at once.

Basically, I thought... what kind of life do I want to have? What do I want to get out of this life? My goals all came from the picture I created in my mind of what I want for my life. Everything above directly relates to that.


----------



## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> I'm perfectly happy to answer that here. I've contemplated posting about them, and since you've asked, I might as well.
> 
> Like I said, my overarching goal is to focus on ME, which is kind of nebulous, so I'll break it down into some smaller chunks.
> 
> First... figure out what I really want out of life. Where do I want to be, what do I want to do with my life, what kind of life do I envision for myself? I realized after Real Estate and I broke up, I had really never thought about any of that JUST FOR MYSELF. In the past, whenever considering these things, I was always prioritizing other people, their wants, and their expectations over my own. I made decisions for my future based on what my parents wanted, and then my XH, and then later, even for RE. But what about me? I realized for the first time in my life, I don't give a flying F what anyone else thinks or wants from me. All these other people who I was prioritizing NEVER gave me the priority or power I was giving them, so why was I giving away my power? Why was I giving away my choice? And when I started to think like that, it was like the sky opened up and all of a sudden I could have any life that I wanted, if I made that choice and worked towards it.
> 
> So, I started thinking... what really makes me happy? Because I want to be happy in my own skin and make my own happiness, rather than thinking that a relationship will finally make me complete and happy. I wanted that from my parents, and they failed at that, so I continued to seek it in other relationships, and all those men failed me, too. And I would rather be happy than alone than continually seeking relationships which never really make me happy, because if I can't be happy alone then I won't really be happy paired up, will I?
> 
> So, what do I want? I am happiest when I am traveling and experiencing new things and places, and what I want more than anything is to see more of the world, and at any given time I've either lacked the money or the time to do it. But professionally, I also want to do something that is of service. After a lot of thought and consideration, I've decided that I want to become a foreign service officer. It's going to take a lot of studying and work on my own to make it all the way through the selection process, and it could take several years.
> 
> I need to find another job in the meantime. I'm tired of living with roommates and I want my own space again, and I also want more financial security than I have now. So, some other goals are:
> - new job
> - learn to better manage my money (read: change my relationship with money) so I can be more financially secure and save
> - buy a condo two years after getting the new job
> 
> I also want to focus on my mental and emotional health to better take care of myself (hello, self love!). I recognize that I have an anxious attachment style, and I want to work on this; I also want to learn better coping strategies to manage my ADHD tendencies. (I haven't been diagnosed as having ADHD, but the more I learn, the more I recognize that I have many of these tendencies, even if I don't actually have ADHD.)
> 
> I also want to get more organized just from a "stuff" perspective, and make my private space in the house more tidy and pleasant... I may not have my own place yet, but I want the space I do have to better reflect me and the person I mean to be. TBH, my space is a DISASTER, and I deserve better. The house that I grew up in was always a disaster, and my mom wasn't quite hoarder-level packrat, but it was still bad. We never had a clean house, EVER... and I think I internalized that I didn't deserve any better. And I need to remind myself (like with my meme about RE), I deserve better than this mess. I deserve a nice, relaxing space to live in. So, I'm going to Marie Kondo the crap out of my space.
> 
> I also want to focus on my physical health... working out, eating better. But I really think that is phase two. I need to get some of the above stuff accomplished before focusing on physical health. I can only do so much at once.


FIP you inspire me. Thank you for sharing. It takes vulnerability to lay it out there like that. 

You mentioned wanting to travel? Do you have any particular destinations in mind?





> Basically, I thought... what kind of life do I want to have? What do I want to get out of this life? My goals all came from the picture I created in my mind of what I want for my life. Everything above directly relates to that.



So these questions got me thinking about something my friend suggested I do. She said I should put together a Vision Board. I'm contemplating it. Have you tried doing that?


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## ne9907

hey AP! so nice to see you


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## john117

Lila said:


> I have to practice it a bit more before I can go live


Let the eyes do the talking. Smiling is overrated 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## AVR1962

Not said:


> Yes, I think you’re spot on. The funny part is that I think we both know that questions look like insecurity so neither of us has really asked those types of questions and that adds to the frustration as well. On my end, I’ve been watching his body language very closely in an attempt to try to read him but it’s so hard to read someone you just met and someone who seems to be just as nervous as I am lol! The nerves prevent you from relaxing.
> 
> He’s had some really bad luck with online dating so he’s more leary than I am. He met someone online two years ago he fell for and it turned out she was married and totally playing him. She spun so many lies he got suspicious and looked into her background. So we’re both a little messy in our own ways right now.


Online dating is crazy and it amazes me to hear the stories about these women. I have male friends who are dating and they tell me these horror stories. 

We cannot show out insecurities, we certainly have to be confident but at the same time I do feel we should be able to express ourselves. I think women have a very good sensor and men too have the same thing going on, so it is like this sensing game and no one is saying anything. He doesn't talk about relationship stuff, you know it so you avoid it but yet you are dying inside and just waiting for him to come forward. My guy has come forward with patience but boy oh boy, slow going!!!! I heard that women's emotional level compared to men's is 8 times higher which does make sense but it explains alot in relationships. I think women are emotionally driven and men are physically driven, I think there is no surprise there but that leaves us trying to adapt to the other in sincere relationships.


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## AliceA

FeministInPink said:


> Like I said, my overarching goal is to focus on ME, which is kind of nebulous, so I'll break it down into some smaller chunks.


Your goals make me think of a book I just read by Barbara Feldon (Agent 99 in Get Smart) called "Living Alone and Loving It". They are fantastic goals.

I feel like we're programmed to think that we have to have a partner to have deep connections in our lives. I'm learning to appreciate connections that I previously didn't value enough. 

I've been single for around 16 months. It's taken this long to realise how trapped I felt in my marriage, not necessarily because of his actions, but because of how I gave up on myself. That was what my mother did too. It felt like she existed for everyone else. I didn't ever think I would be the same, but then I was.

Now, the world has opened up to me, and it's scary, and amazing too.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

FIP, I can really relate to your "goals for me" post. I feel like I am just on the verge of... something...I cant really explain it. 

I am working on finally getting my impending break up out of the way, and that makes me feel some excitement at the freedom of being able to get out and date. (maybe even get laid???? omg) I feel like I am finally due my Mr Right. But... having a boyfriend who has given me so little of his time over this last year has taught me to live without him, basically. And I am liking doing whatever the hell I want, I even have trouble envisioning how a real relationship will fit into my life. Not because I am crazy busy or anything, but kind of the opposite... I have a lot of down time on my own, and kinda feel like a SO will be interrupting that! LOL! I dont know, maybe if someone comes along who actually makes me feel special it will make that less important to me and I will WANT to fit him in. 

Another something is my job. We got bought out and had big layoffs last May, and had smaller ones here and there since. So I feel the end is eventually coming. I really feel the need to get into a new line of work. I want to learn new skills. The problem with that is, in this day and age of these ridiculous online only job applications, how in the world can you possibly be considered if new is what you are looking for?? I dont know, I just know its time for me to do better for myself job wise, and I need to get it figured out. Its tough when you dont have a degree. 

I need to purge a lot of crap out of my house. I also want to repaint my living room and get some new furniture eventually. My kitchen is exactly as it was when I moved in 5 years ago because I cant decide how I want it to look. So that is another project. I have zero interior decorating/color coordinating skills, and my house is feeling very drab. I need to perk it up. I guess that is a purge too, yes? 

I have been trying to lose weight since early Jan. I am not a big person, I had 16 pounds to lose to get back to my good "me" weight. I have only been able to lose 9 so far, and it has only by fighting tooth and nail for every stinking pound. I dont know if thats due to my age?? (48) What I have done before is only barely working. I havent lost anything in the last month. If I kick into high gear on exercise, I may be able to drop it, but I will never keep up rigorous exercise, and I know this, thats just how I am. That would be a big personality shift, one I dont see happening, lol. I have been exercising some though, in addition to changing up how I eat. But I am very frustrated with it all at this point.


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## wilson

3Xnocharm said:


> but I will never keep up rigorous exercise, and I know this, thats just how I am. That would be a big personality shift, one I dont see happening, lol.


If you want to "kill two birds with one stone", join some sort of training group where you see the same people all the time. A class can make rigorous exercise more enjoyable than on your own. So many relationships start because there is so much time where you're working out side-by-side with someone and you get to talking. For example, join a boot camp and you'll likely become friends with the other members. Socialization after the class is very common with people going to grab a bite to eat, and friendships mean you do stuff like go to parties, support them when they do races, etc. Even if you don't meet someone in the class, the friends you make there may introduce you to someone that you like. And another great thing about people who exercise is that they are generally happy people. Exercise improves mood. So they are often a generally fun group to be around.


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## Cynthia

@3Xnocharm, I am 55. I lose weight by cutting carbs and upping the vegetables, plus moderate exercise that builds muscle. The body will burn fat to maintain muscle.


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## Faithful Wife

My update: my mom is moving into an independent living apartment of her own, which means I’m moving into my own apartment of my own!

Woooooot!!

I loves my mom but it does suck to be a care taker and also to have a roommate. In her new place she has more help and so many more opportunities. In my new place I’ll be able to only have to clean up after myself, walk naked throughout the place, and have guests overnight. 

Wheeeeee!!!! 

I’ve literally never had my “own” place.


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## AVR1962

Blondilocks said:


> Will your heart go pitter patter when he keeps pulling the same ****?


Good point....somehow I missed this previously. By pulling back and going into watch mode, allowing him to pursue me, I have noticed alot and now things seem to be making more sense. I think the man is a "loner." He does all these nice things for me....came over after his work shift recently (at 2 a.m.) just to change out my wiper blades on my car because he knew a storm was coming and I had complained about my wipers. He didn't take the money I left for them (he has the garage code, I was asleep). I could say more but he does have to have time for himself. I have checked on him a couple times and he just needs to chill. Once he has had that time he is recharged and good-to-go. This might be why he works nights, just so he doesn't have to deal with so many people. He doesn't eat out except when we go out, doesn't go out drinking, not the strip club type, doesn't spend alot of time with his family, not a social media person, does not like pictures of himself. Can read people, very perceptive. He can chat your leg off and has an abundant amount of knowledge on a variety of subjects. A self-learner, down-to-earth tell it like it is type.

I have realized I tend deal of anxiety and I have known this about myself for a very long time. My mother and my ex-husband would ignore people when they were angry with someone and I was ignore alot. So when I saw this need for alone time it freaked me out but when talking to him there was no connection to anger on his part. He assured me this was not about me, it was something he knew about himself. He has given me his phone to use, I have answered his phone when his daughter called and was expecting us. He does not appear to be hiding anything. he has been forth-coming with more about him than I have found most men to, some of it I would not have been as willing to share. He knows that he has done wrong in his past and has admitted to these things.

So far now, I am enjoying his company and yes, my heart goes pitter patter!!!


----------



## AliceA

AVR1962 said:


> Good point....somehow I missed this previously. By pulling back and going into watch mode, allowing him to pursue me, I have noticed alot and now things seem to be making more sense. I think the man is a "loner." He does all these nice things for me....came over after his work shift recently (at 2 a.m.) just to change out my wiper blades on my car because he knew a storm was coming and I had complained about my wipers. He didn't take the money I left for them (he has the garage code, I was asleep). I could say more but he does have to have time for himself. I have checked on him a couple times and he just needs to chill. Once he has had that time he is recharged and good-to-go. This might be why he works nights, just so he doesn't have to deal with so many people. He doesn't eat out except when we go out, doesn't go out drinking, not the strip club type, doesn't spend alot of time with his family, not a social media person, does not like pictures of himself. Can read people, very perceptive. He can chat your leg off and has an abundant amount of knowledge on a variety of subjects. A self-learner, down-to-earth tell it like it is type.
> 
> I have realized I tend deal of anxiety and I have known this about myself for a very long time. My mother and my ex-husband would ignore people when they were angry with someone and I was ignore alot. So when I saw this need for alone time it freaked me out but when talking to him there was no connection to anger on his part. He assured me this was not about me, it was something he knew about himself. He has given me his phone to use, I have answered his phone when his daughter called and was expecting us. He does not appear to be hiding anything. he has been forth-coming with more about him than I have found most men to, some of it I would not have been as willing to share. He knows that he has done wrong in his past and has admitted to these things.
> 
> So far now, I am enjoying his company and yes, my heart goes pitter patter!!!


I think it's great you've been able to talk about how this makes you feel without him withdrawing even further. That's a good sign IMO.

Sounds like you will need to spread yourself around a bit more with other friends and activities to soak up some of that alone time. I've been doing this lately. Probably went a little overboard tbh, but what the hell, you only live once! Just added a dance class (dances like the Jive and Rumba etc) to my week on one of the nights I don't have the kids. I had so much fun that I was smiling the whole way home. Can't wait until next week. :grin2:


----------



## ne9907

FIP inspired me too to post an update~

well, I have been in a roller coaster since I moved here! I feel as if I am finally able to purge myself of every bad memory, every bad event, and will come out stronger.
This is not happening overnight, Gosh.... I have felt very low and depressed for a while

I had a mini nervous breakdown at the beginning of the year that was caused by sexual harassment at work and unresolved past issues. One day I came into my work and told my boss... I am quitting right now. 
My boss pretty much said, "no, go to the VA, talk to them and ask for stress leave" I did.
Well, started everything and since I work with the military and state of california, they have chosen not to renew my orders at the end of June (I have CPTSD, depression, and anxiety and am a liability). This means, I will be out of a job. 
I am glad. This place was stressing me out a lot.

Now, I feel a sense of doom, ending... I am thinking of taking my life easy for as long as unemployment lasts. Then after that, either go back to school, find a part time job, or just retire.
My romantic life is a mess, I have an abusive partner, he gaslights me often. I have broken up with him many times, but since he has taken residence at my house I cannot kick him out.

I know it sounds awful but I have a plan. 
My mental health is not the best at the moment, so I need to chose my battles carefully.
Right now, I am the most important person. Right now, I am focusing on myself. Right now I am attending counseling and have resources to help. Right now I know I am in an emotionally abusive relationship, but I recognize it and not fooling myself. I called the cops on boyfriend but since he lives there and overthought the house is mine, under my name, I cannot kick him out. So he is an unwanted guest. 
I have been learning a lot about emotional abuse and I know my safety is the most important, even if I have to pretend things between boyfriend and I are okay. 

After June, i might move out of this city because there will be nothing left for me here. I will pack my stuff and leave boyfriend.
Where will I go? Not sure. I might try to buy a home in the mountains or move to Texas, but I am not staying with boyfriend. He might not even realize i am leaving until the very end
I might travel a bit, not sure yet.... I am accepting invitations.

I am very sad and depressed but hopeful. Always hopeful.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Ne, I am sorry you are feeling so low and having issues. You need to take legal action to get that ass-hole OUT of your house! ASAP!! Are you under a lease or do you own it? Why are you rolling over and just taking this crap? I hope you are renting so you can just let your lease term and leave him for the landlords to deal with. 

I am really sorry about your job. I know you are miserable with it, but its still a damn scary thing to lose. Going to school sounds like it would be a good thing for you, I hope you look into it. I'm glad to see you posting again, I sure wish it was under better circumstances. Hugs to you, girl....


----------



## ne9907

3Xnocharm said:


> Ne, I am sorry you are feeling so low and having issues. You need to take legal action to get that ass-hole OUT of your house! ASAP!! Are you under a lease or do you own it? Why are you rolling over and just taking this crap? I hope you are renting so you can just let your lease term and leave him for the landlords to deal with.
> 
> I am really sorry about your job. I know you are miserable with it, but its still a damn scary thing to lose. Going to school sounds like it would be a good thing for you, I hope you look into it. I'm glad to see you posting again, I sure wish it was under better circumstances. Hugs to you, girl....


I have explored all legal issues against this guy, I could have him evicted but the process is long (at least to me) and costly. I have no energy to deal with this problem right now. One issue at the time. 
As with every emotional abusive relationship, not every day is bad. Gosh he is one charming mother****er, but I know him now and I know who I am. I cannot compromise my mental health at the moment dealing with him. 
The home is mine. I have no mortgage, thankfully. 
Another thing working on my favor is that the house is not overly expensive, it is a trailer home did not pay a lot for i. If things get too ugly, I will cut off all utilities, and just take off. I am willing to leave the home uninhabited until it sells or I am even willing to donate the home. I am always running 

Which is another issue I must deal with, I need to come home (wherever home is).
Thank you!


----------



## AVR1962

AliceA said:


> I think it's great you've been able to talk about how this makes you feel without him withdrawing even further. That's a good sign IMO.
> 
> Sounds like you will need to spread yourself around a bit more with other friends and activities to soak up some of that alone time. I've been doing this lately. Probably went a little overboard tbh, but what the hell, you only live once! Just added a dance class (dances like the Jive and Rumba etc) to my week on one of the nights I don't have the kids. I had so much fun that I was smiling the whole way home. Can't wait until next week. :grin2:


Awesome!!!! I enjoy dancing too. I actually have been thinking about doing something as well. Enjoy


----------



## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> I have explored all legal issues against this guy, I could have him evicted but the process is long (at least to me) and costly. I have no energy to deal with this problem right now. One issue at the time.
> As with every emotional abusive relationship, not every day is bad. Gosh he is one charming mother****er, but I know him now and I know who I am. I cannot compromise my mental health at the moment dealing with him.
> The home is mine. I have no mortgage, thankfully.
> Another thing working on my favor is that the house is not overly expensive, it is a trailer home did not pay a lot for i. If things get too ugly, I will cut off all utilities, and just take off. I am willing to leave the home uninhabited until it sells or I am even willing to donate the home. I am always running
> 
> Which is another issue I must deal with, I need to come home (wherever home is).
> Thank you!


Ne, I think you should move and sell the house. Then he would have to leave. And then you can start over new somewhere else. With the sale, you'll have enough money for a down payment on a new, better place. You can literally go anywhere. You can choose to live wherever you've always wanted to live. Hell, you could move to Costa Rica, buy a little place on the beach and start a little beachside eatery and surfboard rental place.

Literally, the world is your oyster, girl. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

AliceA said:


> Your goals make me think of a book I just read by Barbara Feldon (Agent 99 in Get Smart) called "Living Alone and Loving It". They are fantastic goals.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like we're programmed to think that we have to have a partner to have deep connections in our lives. I'm learning to appreciate connections that I previously didn't value enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been single for around 16 months. It's taken this long to realise how trapped I felt in my marriage, not necessarily because of his actions, but because of how I gave up on myself. That was what my mother did too. It felt like she existed for everyone else. I didn't ever think I would be the same, but then I was.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, the world has opened up to me, and it's scary, and amazing too.


 @AliceA I think I'm finally getting to the point where I am content. Not loving it yet, but I think a big part of that is my present financial instability. Once I get a new job, my schedule normalizes, and my finances are stable, I will be in a much better place to be living the life I want and loving it.


----------



## FeministInPink

@3Xnocharm Purging physical stuff feels SOOOO amazing. I need to do some of that, too. I purged a lot when I moved out of my old place and in with my roommates, but I realize I've been accruing more since I've moved in here, and am feeling the need to purge some and lighten the load.

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----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> My update: my mom is moving into an independent living apartment of her own, which means I’m moving into my own apartment of my own!
> 
> Woooooot!!
> 
> I loves my mom but it does suck to be a care taker and also to have a roommate. In her new place she has more help and so many more opportunities. In my new place I’ll be able to only have to clean up after myself, walk naked throughout the place, and have guests overnight.
> 
> Wheeeeee!!!!
> 
> I’ve literally never had my “own” place.


SO EXCITING!!!

I am looking forward to when I can get my own place and no longer have a roommate situation. So many people are like, "You can buy a two-bedroom and rent out the second bedroom!" NO THANK YOU. I want a space that is all to myself again.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## ne9907

FeministInPink said:


> Ne, I think you should move and sell the house. Then he would have to leave. And then you can start over new somewhere else. With the sale, you'll have enough money for a down payment on a new, better place. You can literally go anywhere. You can choose to live wherever you've always wanted to live. Hell, you could move to Costa Rica, buy a little place on the beach and start a little beachside eatery and surfboard rental place.
> 
> Literally, the world is your oyster, girl.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



Saturday I had to come in to work, as i am driving the song "Africa" began on the radio. I was singing my lungs out, then began crying because the song is so beautiful and I want to go back to Africa....

I have actually been thinking of many things to do with my life, like become a missionary. Or perhaps I will study Physics or Archaeology. I want to learn more. I did not get to chose a major I loved in college because Archaeology was not offered in my small college. 

Maybe into to Physics and Intro to Archaeology this fall! If things are better, if not, next fall!


----------



## RandomDude

Wolf1974 said:


> So she said yes! Went off perfectly and she had no idea I was going to ask. She loves the ring, the size was right, and she loved that I picked a lighthouse to do it
> Still in Maine then back home tomorrow
> 
> Very happy and great weight off my shoulder. Keeping this from everyone was hard!
> 
> Sorry tried to upload photos but it says the files are to big. :frown2:


:surprise:










CONGRATS!


----------



## bkyln309

RandomDude said:


> :surprise:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CONGRATS!


Congratulations Wolf!


----------



## Lila

It's Friday night...... Any of you Singles of TAM have fun plans?

I am hanging out with my #1 favorite guy....... My son 😄. We're catching up on last week's Saturday Night Live episode.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> It's Friday night...... Any of you Singles of TAM have fun plans?
> 
> I am hanging out with my #1 favorite guy....... My son 😄. We're catching up on last week's Saturday Night Live episode.


My kid, my brother, my mom, all will be at my house tonight....fun but kind of a lot of work for me. Still always fun!

I started talking to a new guy today. Very cute. Very young. Don't know anything else yet but it's fun to have a new friend to be texting with and making plans to meet up soon. We are both busy for the next week so it may take awhile. In the meantime, fun picture exchange! Woot! That's my FUN Friday night :laugh:


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> My kid, my brother, my mom, all will be at my house tonight....fun but kind of a lot of work for me. Still always fun!


Are they staying over to sleep or just dropping by for dinner?



> I started talking to a new guy today. Very cute. Very young. Don't know anything else yet but it's fun to have a new friend to be texting with and making plans to meet up soon. We are both busy for the next week so it may take awhile. In the meantime, fun picture exchange! Woot! That's my FUN Friday night <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>


Ha! You are my hero.


----------



## Faithful Wife

@Lila.... well, mom still lives with me, kid may stay over (always possible) and brother also may stay over (always possible) but none plans to stay over at this time. 

I definitely have plans to be staring at hot pictures all night. Yeah baby!


----------



## Faithful Wife

You know it may be just as fun to flirt and text as it is to date. I love doing both with the same guy. But sometimes you never end up meeting or something and you just text forever and it’s always fun.

The guy I’m texting now, we are going to meet, but until then I’m having so much fun as it is that I’m not anxious about anything. 

Some guys are not texters and that’s ok too. I don’t push texting on people if they don’t do it. But when I meet one that loves having fun with it like I do, it’s great!

Yes we swap pics and flirt. But we are also just chatting, whatcha doing, how long have you been in that career, (his is truly fascinating, mine not so much), when did you realize you were into this or that, how has your experience on OLD been, and so on.

Do you like, love or hate texting in dating?

Do you flirt and get to know each other that way?

For clarification, I’m not really talking about texting randos, 10 at a time. Though that can be fun too. I’m talking about when you have met someone and you are moving towards meeting and are not really into anyone else. And also after you are dating, do you keep texting flirty fun stuff?


----------



## Not

I broke it off with the guy I was seeing for two months. Bummed. I so wanted to jump his bones lol! His face would light up a little to brightly when he spoke of his ex of ten years. He told me in the beginning they were friends, no problem. Then it was best friends. Ok I guess. Then it was her getting brought up in conversation, a lot. And his face, just a bit to happy at the mention of her. That and he’s so busy we saw each other once in two and a half weeks and I had to call off work in order to see him. Nope, not gonna work for me! 

Have a date with someone else for sometime this week! Another army guy! The guy above was retired army. I don’t know what’s up with me attracting military men.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Ugh! Nothing worse than someone stuck on their damn ex! Glad you caught on quickly and saved yourself a huge PITA down the line..
Kudos to you for ending things, I don’t know what’s wrong with me but I haven’t been able to bring myself to do the same! Had several opportunities but just can’t seem to get the words out of my mouth. 




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## Affaircare

It's my last weekend as a single woman, so I really whooped it up!

Friday night was Pizza-Movie Night, and we watched "Airplane!" Yep my last single weekend and I watched Leslie Nielson play a doctor in a movie about an airplane crash. "Surely you can't be serious?" I am serious, and stop calling me Shirley. Looks like I picked the wrong weekend to stop being single! LOL

Saturday was a CRAZY day. I started the day doing a 5k for a group called "Girls on the Run" which is like a running group for girls after school. Each girl gets an older "running buddy" who is kind of like her mentor, and my STB step-daughter, The Feather, is a running buddy so that's how I got involved. All I did was walk the race, but... I GOT THE SHIRT and got to meet her girl and some of her co-workers from the school she works at. It was GREAT fun...but we were done by noon. Took sandwiches and chips home to EB, and he decided he'd rather grill...so we had YUMMY burgers on the grill sort of afternoon-ish (what is that? Linner?). I watched "Bohemian Rhapsody" and was thrilled to see it because I remember Freddie. It was well done and tasteful--honest but not too 'Hollywood ized'. By that time it was getting later and @Emerging Buddhist was in a mood so we got WILD and watched "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." I'm sorry but I have to question his claim that he was not a virgin cuz he didn't know any of the lyrics to the opening song, no ducking under newspaper during the rain scene, doesn't know how to do the Time Warp.... Seriously, does that sounds like a cult member to you? 

In one week from this morning, I'll be waking up a married woman. So naturally there is only one thing to do, right? We took off on the motorcycle. I mean...we have tattoos you know! It was a lovely 4 hour ride in the northern part of the state, which is so scenic it struck me with awe. The weather was coolish 70's and partly sunny, so it couldn't have been better. And after spending the day hugging EB with an engine between my legs... I think I'm ready. 

BRING IT, next weekend. Let the wedding bells ring! Hey baby--I am going to marry you!


----------



## Sauvie Island

Congrats @Affaircare! 

I've not read anything from you in about over a year and a half when you were helping me through my mess (different screen name), so very glad for you!


----------



## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> Ugh! Nothing worse than someone stuck on their damn ex! Glad you caught on quickly and saved yourself a huge PITA down the line..
> Kudos to you for ending things, I don’t know what’s wrong with me but I haven’t been able to bring myself to do the same! Had several opportunities but just can’t seem to get the words out of my mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I realized that seeing him wasn’t bringing much happiness or lightness to my life. I spent most of my time waiting around for him and feeling let down a lot and decided that wasn’t where I wanted to be. Don’t really want to be alone anymore but being alone is better than what I was getting from him. He’s a good guy in a lot of respects but not in others, not where it really counts.


----------



## FeministInPink

Not said:


> I realized that seeing him wasn’t bringing much happiness or lightness to my life. I spent most of my time waiting around for him and feeling let down a lot and decided that wasn’t where I wanted to be. Don’t really want to be alone anymore but being alone is better than what I was getting from him. He’s a good guy in a lot of respects but not in others, not where it really counts.


I'm glad you realized this, and made the choice to end it with him. You don't want to miss out on the right person because you're wasting time with the wrong person!

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## FeministInPink

At work tonight, one of our regular customers asked me out on a date. I had a really strong feeling that he was going to ask me out at some point... I saw it coming as early as 9 months ago. But then I didn't see him for a while, and then last week, when I did see him, he didn't remember my name. So I thought that maybe my intuition was off. But then tonight, he approached me and asked me out.

I had to say no, though. He's a perfectly nice guy, but I also don't find him attractive or all that interesting. I'm also not really interested in dating anyone at this point. I'm single, but I'm also not looking for anyone right now--there are other things that I need to focus my time and energy on.

Still, it was very flattering. He told me that I'm very charming, which was a sweet thing to say.

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## Faithful Wife

Still texting with new, fun, sweet guy. He is out of town so we still haven't met in person yet...hopeful to do that next week. Me moving is making things difficult also, as in, I don't know for sure when I will be all done and free to do anything. But I'm guessing we will meet by next Wednesday.

In the meantime, it is so nice to just be playful and flirty via text. Also sweet things like a simple "good morning, hope you have a great day".

But my heart and spirits are already very, very high, just from being so stoked about moving! (Well...that and also from pot, but...)  (kidding)

I just can't wait to finally just slide into my own bed in my own place and then do whatever I want. The way things currently are, I can't ever count on just doing what I want at home. There is always something I have to do for my mom, want to or not. There's no moment that's just me in my house (she can't leave unless I take her somewhere). There's no moment when I can walk in my kitchen and have it be clean because I just cleaned it. No, it is always dirty, no matter when I cleaned it (mom isn't very clean at all, especially in the kitchen). I can clean it and walk away for 5 minutes and there will be yet another mess to clean up.

It is kind of like having a toddler with a 130 IQ but who has the same physical abilities as the toddler (exaggerating but not much). Kitchen messes are the least of it, there are a lot of other things I have to do for her that aren't so simple.

I can't wait to just hang out with her in one of our new places, and I won't have to worry at all about anything except visiting. She is one of my best friends, but I hate living with her so much that currently I can't really even hang out with her without getting annoyed.

We are moving her on Friday so.....almost done!!

And then finally when I get my own place, I can actually have a man come over. The holy grail of being single! A man in my place!!!

Has literally never happened in my life.


----------



## Not

This new army vet I’m talking to is a widower, of just 18 months. It never occurred to me that I might meet a widower so I’m totally unprepared for and am not sure exactly what unique circumstances this may bring into my life if I end up liking him. Not sure I want to go there, though he seems like a good guy so far.


----------



## AVR1962

My grand daughter's high school graduation was last weekend. I was not able to go but pictures were posted on social media. I saw my ex in the pictures, we have divorced for almost 3 years. He looks absolutely terrible!!! Seeing him in the pics made sick to my stomach. I woke up several times in the night thinking of the pictures of him. It was not a good night for sleep!


----------



## notmyjamie

Just made a "coffee date" with a guy I met via OLD. I haven't been on a date in 25 years. I literally have no idea what I'm doing. LOL

Anyone got any advice?


----------



## Not

notmyjamie said:


> Just made a "coffee date" with a guy I met via OLD. I haven't been on a date in 25 years. I literally have no idea what I'm doing. LOL
> 
> Anyone got any advice?


Just be yourself and go into it like you would if you were meeting a new co-worker for the first time, less pressure that way. Don’t be invested in any particular type of outcome, just go to relax and have some good conversation. Try to have fun!


----------



## attheend02

notmyjamie said:


> Just made a "coffee date" with a guy I met via OLD. I haven't been on a date in 25 years. I literally have no idea what I'm doing. LOL
> 
> Anyone got any advice?


Just have fun.... 

Remember, the fork is usually on the left...


----------



## lifeistooshort

Hey everyone, thought I'd drop in for a visit.

I'm still seeing the guy I met cycling that asked me out when he heard I'd split from my hb. We seem to click and get along really well.

We text daily, ride in a group together during the week, ride in another group Saturday morning, then spend Saturday nights together. After that we ride in another group Sunday morning and then spend most of Sunday together.

Sometimes we'll do something extra during the week.

It's nice.....I feel like I can be myself and it's very little effort to spend time with him.

I met his brother and elderly parents (they're super nice people and seemed happy to meet me) and he's going to meet my boys this weekend.


----------



## FeministInPink

notmyjamie said:


> Just made a "coffee date" with a guy I met via OLD. I haven't been on a date in 25 years. I literally have no idea what I'm doing. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone got any advice?


Don't think of this as a date. Think of this as a pre-date. You're meeting someone to see if he's someone you would actually want to go on a date with. It's like if you met someone cute in a bar, our out and about somewhere, you might talk for a bit to get to know them... and then maybe you decide to go on a date with them. Think of it like that. The post-coffee date is the real first date.

And remember, don't fret over what he thinks of you. Take this opportunity to suss out if HE is good enough for you! Remember, you're the prize 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

lifeistooshort said:


> Hey everyone, thought I'd drop in for a visit.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still seeing the guy I met cycling that asked me out when he heard I'd split from my hb. We seem to click and get along really well.
> 
> 
> 
> We text daily, ride in a group together during the week, ride in another group Saturday morning, then spend Saturday nights together. After that we ride in another group Sunday morning and then spend most of Sunday together.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes we'll do something extra during the week.
> 
> 
> 
> It's nice.....I feel like I can be myself and it's very little effort to spend time with him.
> 
> 
> 
> I met his brother and elderly parents (they're super nice people and seemed happy to meet me) and he's going to meet my boys this weekend.


Glad to hear this is going well for you 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## AVR1962

notmyjamie said:


> Just made a "coffee date" with a guy I met via OLD. I haven't been on a date in 25 years. I literally have no idea what I'm doing. LOL
> 
> Anyone got any advice?


I kind of see the date as a client. So I am friendly and respectful. There are a few things I look for....is there any physical attraction for me or I intrigued by the conversation, I also listen to see how he talks about his ex or his children....if he is angry at his ex still or if his life is all about his daughter then I probably won't see him again. Does he listen to you, can you both laugh in the conversation? Be you as this is the person you want him to know. No matter what your thoughts are in meeting this man, enjoy the company.


----------



## Not

notmyjamie said:


> Just made a "coffee date" with a guy I met via OLD. I haven't been on a date in 25 years. I literally have no idea what I'm doing. LOL
> 
> Anyone got any advice?


How did your coffee date go? Hopefully well!


----------



## Not

I’m breaking one of my rules and meeting a guy with young kids tonight. 9 and 11. 6’2, bald, goatee and green eyes...couldn’t say no lol! I’m 5’8 so meeting taller men has been an issue for me. I can’t wait to stand next to him! 😁


----------



## notmyjamie

Not said:


> How did your coffee date go? Hopefully well!


It went really well. Seems like a nice, normal guy. Didn't come on too strong but was very easy to talk to about a whole bunch of stuff. We have a lot in common, like the same types of movies, tv shows, books, etc. Have enough differences to make things interesting though. Definitely have similar parenting styles. I really enjoyed meeting him.

Told him I'm just getting back out there, need to go slow, etc. and he said that's the best way to do it. He texted a little bit ago saying he enjoyed our talk and asked for a date. I've never dated anyone I didn't know in person for a while beforehand so this is all strange to me. Plus I've been with my STBX for the last 25 years so it's definitely strange. But I'm very glad I went. 

But, still feel a bit guilty for moving on which is crazy because my ex did me so very wrong and I have nothing to feel guilty for, but I do. I'm hoping I'll get over that co dependent nonsense soon.

Thanks for asking!!!!


----------



## Not

notmyjamie said:


> It went really well. Seems like a nice, normal guy. Didn't come on too strong but was very easy to talk to about a whole bunch of stuff. We have a lot in common, like the same types of movies, tv shows, books, etc. Have enough differences to make things interesting though. Definitely have similar parenting styles. I really enjoyed meeting him.
> 
> Told him I'm just getting back out there, need to go slow, etc. and he said that's the best way to do it. He texted a little bit ago saying he enjoyed our talk and asked for a date. I've never dated anyone I didn't know in person for a while beforehand so this is all strange to me. Plus I've been with my STBX for the last 25 years so it's definitely strange. But I'm very glad I went.
> 
> But, still feel a bit guilty for moving on which is crazy because my ex did me so very wrong and I have nothing to feel guilty for, but I do. I'm hoping I'll get over that co dependent nonsense soon.
> 
> Thanks for asking!!!!


I get it, it was 25 years for me too and I think there’s a mindset we don’t realize we have until we first get out there. I felt guilty too but more toward my kids and the idea of what a good divorced mom does. No guilt toward me ex at all though lol! 

My first few dates were really awkward because I was just that nervous, I hadn’t done anything like that since 1992! But then I realized I wasn’t helping my cause any and needed to chill the heck out and just have fun! I’m glad yours went so well!


----------



## notmyjamie

Not said:


> I get it, it was 25 years for me too and I think there’s a mindset we don’t realize we have until we first get out there. I felt guilty too but more toward my kids and the idea of what a good divorced mom does. No guilt toward me ex at all though lol!
> 
> My first few dates were really awkward because I was just that nervous, I hadn’t done anything like that since 1992! But then I realized I wasn’t helping my cause any and needed to chill the heck out and just have fun! I’m glad yours went so well!



I know just what you mean about feeling guilty about the kids. That's a big part of it for me too. My kids are teenagers and I think they're going to have a hard time seeing me with someone else. I have no plans to introduce anyone to them until I'm sure it's a solid relationship so I have some time to worry about that though. I shouldn't have any guilt towards the ex...he married me under the most extreme false pretenses but on some weird level I know he does love me. It's so screwed up. I keep saying I should get some therapy but haven't taken that step yet.

I feel a big relief just having that first one done. I was never a big dater even when I was young. 2 of the 3 guys I've been with I was friends with first, one from high school and my STBX was part of my friend group for over a year before we got together. The other was a coworker so I had known him for a few weeks at least before he asked me out. 

I've also been WAY insecure about my ability to attract someone as I am struggling to lose some weight I gained during some health problems a few years ago. I had gained 55lbs (ugh, I know!) and I've lost 35 of it but it's very slow going and even when I lose that last 20, I'll still have another 15lbs I was carting around prior to becoming partially paralyzed that I need to lose. But he asked for a second date so I guess I'm not as gross as I thought LOL. I've been thinking I'd be alone forever but this gives me a little sense that there might be hope for me yet.

Even if nothing comes of it romantically, I've hopefully made a nice friend and I definitely need some of those that are separate from my STBX so it's all good.


----------



## AVR1962

notmyjamie said:


> It went really well. Seems like a nice, normal guy. Didn't come on too strong but was very easy to talk to about a whole bunch of stuff. We have a lot in common, like the same types of movies, tv shows, books, etc. Have enough differences to make things interesting though. Definitely have similar parenting styles. I really enjoyed meeting him.
> 
> Told him I'm just getting back out there, need to go slow, etc. and he said that's the best way to do it. He texted a little bit ago saying he enjoyed our talk and asked for a date. I've never dated anyone I didn't know in person for a while beforehand so this is all strange to me. Plus I've been with my STBX for the last 25 years so it's definitely strange. But I'm very glad I went.
> 
> But, still feel a bit guilty for moving on which is crazy because my ex did me so very wrong and I have nothing to feel guilty for, but I do. I'm hoping I'll get over that co dependent nonsense soon.
> 
> Thanks for asking!!!!


Do not feel guilty!!!!! You deserve a life, make the best of it and enjoy!!!!


----------



## notmyjamie

Not said:


> I’m breaking one of my rules and meeting a guy with young kids tonight. 9 and 11. 6’2, bald, goatee and green eyes...couldn’t say no lol! I’m 5’8 so meeting taller men has been an issue for me. I can’t wait to stand next to him! 😁


How did it go?? I hope you had fun :smile2:


----------



## Not

notmyjamie said:


> How did it go?? I hope you had fun :smile2:


It went good! We were going to meet at a restaurant but his roommate decided last minute to have a party at the house and he asked if I’d mind doing that instead. I thought it would be a good ice breaker situation and also so I could observe how he acts when he’s around people he knows and is comfortable with so off I went to his house. He was a total gentleman. And man can this guy cook! Made me the best grilled pork chop I’ve ever had! I guess he’s a big Foodie which is awesome in my book. You’d never know it by his looks. He’s a bit thinner than I expected but in great shape and he didn’t lie about his height! Guys will lie about this stuff online.

Then today he asked me to attend a party at a friends house with him, so off I went. It was nice, we literally just sat, relaxed and talked for about four hours. Tomorrow he’s taking me out for dinner then to the beach. And between last night and today I got a couple of quick but polite kisses. Those were nice lol! He’s also former military, Marines. Each guy that I’ve taken a close look at has been former military, except the very first one. So, strange but alright I guess.

I think he’s interested lol! Yay! because I’d like to move forward and get to know him better too. He lives an hour away but I figure we have all the time in the world to get to know each other and if it ever gets to that point we’ll figure it out then. I’m just going to enjoy life for now and not worry about what lies ahead. 

Did you and the coffee date guy set up a second date?


----------



## notmyjamie

Not said:


> It went good! We were going to meet at a restaurant but his roommate decided last minute to have a party at the house and he asked if I’d mind doing that instead. I thought it would be a good ice breaker situation and also so I could observe how he acts when he’s around people he knows and is comfortable with so off I went to his house. He was a total gentleman. And man can this guy cook! Made me the best grilled pork chop I’ve ever had! I guess he’s a big Foodie which is awesome in my book. You’d never know it by his looks. He’s a bit thinner than I expected but in great shape and he didn’t lie about his height! Guys will lie about this stuff online.
> 
> Then today he asked me to attend a party at a friends house with him, so off I went. It was nice, we literally just sat, relaxed and talked for about four hours. Tomorrow he’s taking me out for dinner then to the beach. And between last night and today I got a couple of quick but polite kisses. Those were nice lol! He’s also former military, Marines. Each guy that I’ve taken a close look at has been former military, except the very first one. So, strange but alright I guess.
> 
> I think he’s interested lol! Yay! because I’d like to move forward and get to know him better too. He lives an hour away but I figure we have all the time in the world to get to know each other and if it ever gets to that point we’ll figure it out then. I’m just going to enjoy life for now and not worry about what lies ahead.
> 
> Did you and the coffee date guy set up a second date?


That sounds great. A man who can cook is a good man to find. If he keeps asking you to stuff he's interested I'd say. Sounds like he is fun and respectful which is always a good combo in my book. When you mentioned kisses I will admit my stomach dropped a bit. I'm not sure I'll even know what to do when/if that time comes. Things with my STBX were pretty non existent for a number of years now so I'm way out of practice. Ugh...one more thing to be nervous about.

But, he did ask for another date so it is a possibility. We are going out to watch the hockey game tonight. I feel a little badly because he's a huge fan and I'm not (much prefer football) and it's a game I'm sure he really wants to focus on as it's the playoffs but with me there he might not be able to as much. But he's the one who asked, not me so I guess I shouldn't worry about it. I'm sure he'd love to watch it at home but as I just met him I don't think that's a good idea. 

We'll see what happens I guess.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Well my boyfriend finally met my kids.....he met us for pre graduation dinner Saturday night (older son graduated high school). That went well.

The boys dad and his gf also came to dinner....everyone talked and had a good time.

And I had a chance to chat with bf's elderly parents some more....they are super nice and welcoming.

So now both families are acquainted with our relationship and everyone seems fine.

It was a little nerve wracking for me because I married my ex hb when the boys were little so I've never actually introduced them to someone I'm dating before, and it's probably strange for them too. But they're not babies, and my 18 year old told me he knew this day was coming.


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## notmyjamie

lifeistooshort said:


> Well my boyfriend finally met my kids.....he met us for pre graduation dinner Saturday night (older son graduated high school). That went well.
> 
> The boys dad and his gf also came to dinner....everyone talked and had a good time.
> 
> And I had a chance to chat with bf's elderly parents some more....they are super nice and welcoming.
> 
> So now both families are acquainted with our relationship and everyone seems fine.
> 
> It was a little nerve wracking for me because I married my ex hb when the boys were little so I've never actually introduced them to someone I'm dating before, and it's probably strange for them too. But they're not babies, and my 18 year old told me he knew this day was coming.


Glad it went so well!!!! It must be a huge relief to have it behind you.


----------



## bobert

notmyjamie said:


> We are going out to watch the hockey game tonight. I feel a little badly because he's a huge fan and I'm not (much prefer football) and it's a game I'm sure he really wants to focus on as it's the playoffs but with me there he might not be able to as much. But he's the one who asked, not me so I guess I shouldn't worry about it. I'm sure he'd love to watch it at home but as I just met him I don't think that's a good idea.


As a hockey guy, I wouldn't worry about the game and being a distraction. Game 1 really isn't that important.


----------



## notmyjamie

bobert said:


> As a hockey guy, I wouldn't worry about the game and being a distraction. Game 1 really isn't that important.


Thanks, that makes me feel better. Although, our team is playing so that might make it a bit more interesting to him. I did offer to get together a different night and he declined so I guess we're good to go!! I know nothing about hockey except it's very fast. LOL


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## Deejo

lifeistooshort said:


> Well my boyfriend finally met my kids.....he met us for pre graduation dinner Saturday night (older son graduated high school). That went well.
> 
> The boys dad and his gf also came to dinner....everyone talked and had a good time.
> 
> And I had a chance to chat with bf's elderly parents some more....they are super nice and welcoming.
> 
> So now both families are acquainted with our relationship and everyone seems fine.
> 
> It was a little nerve wracking for me because I married my ex hb when the boys were little so I've never actually introduced them to someone I'm dating before, and it's probably strange for them too. But they're not babies, and my 18 year old told me he knew this day was coming.


Happy for you! My 16 year old started referring to us as his 'framily' (friends and family) when my ex and I started getting together for events with the kids and partners (now both spouses) a number of years ago. He was probably about 10 or 11.


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## AVR1962

Yesterday storms hit my town in TX. High winds did alot of damage. I was watching the storm on the news and then I lost power. We had a tornado warning in place at the time so at that point I went to my closet and just chilled til the power came back on. I was supposed to teach on the road yesterday but canceled my route. I contacted my daughter who lives a 1/2 hour away. I stayed home and got caught up but I felt so alone. The man I have been seeing texted me several times yesterday to check on me which I did appreciate. However, my parents and I are not close, my kids have their own lives and have struggled with me since I left my marriage, I have not made a great deal of friends since moving after the divorce. 

As I got ready for bed last night I received a call from my boyfriend. He told me that his daughter had called him asking if he had talked to me today. he let her know that we had texted. She told him to call me. I was so surprised to hear this. Of all people, it was my boyfriend's daughter who knew the importance of picking up that phone to make sure I was okay. It meant alot to me. I went to bed feeling thankful and realized too I need to get out a little more and perhaps start making some new friends and try to make more connections with people.


----------



## Blondilocks

AVR1962 said:


> Yesterday storms hit my town in TX. High winds did alot of damage. I was watching the storm on the news and then I lost power. We had a tornado warning in place at the time so at that point I went to my closet and just chilled til the power came back on. I was supposed to teach on the road yesterday but canceled my route. I contacted my daughter who lives a 1/2 hour away. I stayed home and got caught up but I felt so alone. The man I have been seeing texted me several times yesterday to check on me which I did appreciate. However, my parents and I are not close, my kids have their own lives and have struggled with me since I left my marriage, I have not made a great deal of friends since moving after the divorce.
> 
> As I got ready for bed last night I received a call from my boyfriend. He told me that his daughter had called him asking if he had talked to me today. he let her know that we had texted. She told him to call me. I was so surprised to hear this. Of all people, it was my boyfriend's daughter who knew the importance of picking up that phone to make sure I was okay. It meant alot to me. I went to bed feeling thankful and realized too I need to get out a little more and perhaps start making some new friends and try to make more connections with people.


Are your kids close to your ex-husband? Are they not the children by your first ex-husband?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Yeah, are your kids not being supportive that you divorced?? Because if ANYONE should have gotten divorced, its YOU, your ex was a POS, and your grown kids should realize that. 

I'm glad you made it through the storms ok, its been a rough spring, for sure. (midwest girl here)


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## 2&out

Glad to hear you did not have any damage. I didn't get quite as lucky. Or maybe I did ! I'll be getting a new garage as a tree came down on the corner of one of mine. The world is now down one '64 Vette. Car a lost cause/scrap but with the insurance I'll be getting a nice bigger new garage !


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## 3Xnocharm

2&out said:


> Glad to hear you did not have any damage. I didn't get quite as lucky. Or maybe I did ! I'll be getting a new garage as a tree came down on the corner of one of mine. The world is now down one '64 Vette. Car a lost cause/scrap but with the insurance I'll be getting a nice bigger new garage !


Oh no! :surprise: But good you have the consolation prize of a bigger garage!


----------



## lifeistooshort

Deejo said:


> Happy for you! My 16 year old started referring to us as his 'framily' (friends and family) when my ex and I started getting together for events with the kids and partners (now both spouses) a number of years ago. He was probably about 10 or 11.


Thank you 

My younger son sarcastically asked if dinner was really a double date.

I assured him that if it was I wouldn't be bringing him along to mess up our good time.

He said fair enough and we laughed......my boys and I joke with and give each other a hard time.


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## AVR1962

Blondilocks said:


> Are your kids close to your ex-husband? Are they not the children by your first ex-husband?


My two oldest are from my first marriage and youngest from my second. My second husband who I was married to for 24 years raised my oldest two daughters. They called him "dad" and my grandkids know him as their grandfather.


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## farsidejunky

Speaking as a moderator:

If any person feels they are being harassed via private message, it needs to be brought to the attention of the moderators via the report function, not in a n open, public forum.

There is zero tolerance for harassment. Conversely, airing this out in a public forum is inappropriate.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Not

Date number 5 with new guy coming this weekend! That’ll be 5 dates in seven days, such a difference from the previous guy I was seeing. I saw the previous guy maybe 6 times in two months and he lives closer! 

Things are moving a little fast but I haven’t picked up on any red flags yet. He’s intelligent, talks a lot which I love because I’m quiet, his sense of humor is slightly on the sarcastic side which I like, he loves his job which is awesome, he’s thoughtful and knows exactly what to say to get me to melt and damn is he good looking lol! And oh man does he know what he’s doing in the getting physical department. We haven’t gone there yet but I can tell he’ll be good! The way he kisses, just oh wow. 

He wants to introduce me to his boys this weekend and he’s invited me to visit his dad with him for 10 days in July. So, things are moving very fast but I’m keeping my head screwed on straight and my foot is applying slight pressure on the brake pedal. I don’t want to move so fast that we jump right past the getting to know each other part to quickly before things get super serious, which is where I think he wants to go. He did say he wants to roll the dice and take a chance with me. It’s so weird to think and even weirder to say I think I have my first official boyfriend. I feel giddy but strange at the same time.


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## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> Date number 5 with new guy coming this weekend! That’ll be 5 dates in seven days, such a difference from the previous guy I was seeing. I saw the previous guy maybe 6 times in two months and he lives closer!
> 
> 
> 
> Things are moving a little fast but I haven’t picked up on any red flags yet. He’s intelligent, talks a lot which I love because I’m quiet, his sense of humor is slightly on the sarcastic side which I like, he loves his job which is awesome, he’s thoughtful and knows exactly what to say to get me to melt and damn is he good looking lol! And oh man does he know what he’s doing in the getting physical department. We haven’t gone there yet but I can tell he’ll be good! The way he kisses, just oh wow.
> 
> 
> 
> He wants to introduce me to his boys this weekend and he’s invited me to visit his dad with him for 10 days in July. So, things are moving very fast but I’m keeping my head screwed on straight and my foot is applying slight pressure on the brake pedal. I don’t want to move so fast that we jump right past the getting to know each other part to quickly before things get super serious, which is where I think he wants to go. He did say he wants to roll the dice and take a chance with me. It’s so weird to think and even weirder to say I think I have my first official boyfriend. I feel giddy but strange at the same time.




Please be careful. Moving that fast IS a red flag. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## notmyjamie

Elizabeth001 said:


> Please be careful. Moving that fast IS a red flag.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed, 100%. Been there, done that. Didn't end well. Maybe he just really likes you but if he does, he'll wait for you to catch up. If he won't wait, he's not worth your time anyway.


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## Blondilocks

Not said:


> Date number 5 with new guy coming this weekend! That’ll be 5 dates in seven days, such a difference from the previous guy I was seeing. I saw the previous guy maybe 6 times in two months and he lives closer!
> 
> Things are moving a little fast but I haven’t picked up on any red flags yet. He’s intelligent, talks a lot which I love because I’m quiet, his sense of humor is slightly on the sarcastic side which I like, he loves his job which is awesome, he’s thoughtful and knows exactly what to say to get me to melt and damn is he good looking lol! And oh man does he know what he’s doing in the getting physical department. We haven’t gone there yet but I can tell he’ll be good! The way he kisses, just oh wow.
> 
> *He wants to introduce me to his boys this weekend *and he’s invited me to visit his dad with him for 10 days in July. So, things are moving very fast but I’m keeping my head screwed on straight and my foot is applying slight pressure on the brake pedal. I don’t want to move so fast that we jump right past the getting to know each other part to quickly before things get super serious, which is where I think he wants to go. He did say he wants to roll the dice and take a chance with me. It’s so weird to think and even weirder to say I think I have my first official boyfriend. I feel giddy but strange at the same time.


This is way, way too fast. Everything about this is too fast; but, leave the kids out of it for 6 months or so.


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## Not

I know, this is really fast for me. I’m the one with my foot on the brake pedal and I will take it slow. What I’m discovering is that, outside of this forum, the wait six months before introducing the kids thing is pretty foreign to a lot of people, at least to a lot of the men I’ve talked with. I do wonder if the fact that his ex moved her boyfriend in soon after they split plays a role in how he sees things. Apparently things with her boyfriend are good and the boys did well with it but I think that’s because new guy let his boys know that he himself was ok with it.

I’m being careful, promise! 👍


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## AVR1962

Not said:


> Date number 5 with new guy coming this weekend! That’ll be 5 dates in seven days, such a difference from the previous guy I was seeing. I saw the previous guy maybe 6 times in two months and he lives closer!
> 
> Things are moving a little fast but I haven’t picked up on any red flags yet. He’s intelligent, talks a lot which I love because I’m quiet, his sense of humor is slightly on the sarcastic side which I like, he loves his job which is awesome, he’s thoughtful and knows exactly what to say to get me to melt and damn is he good looking lol! And oh man does he know what he’s doing in the getting physical department. We haven’t gone there yet but I can tell he’ll be good! The way he kisses, just oh wow.
> 
> He wants to introduce me to his boys this weekend and he’s invited me to visit his dad with him for 10 days in July. So, things are moving very fast but I’m keeping my head screwed on straight and my foot is applying slight pressure on the brake pedal. I don’t want to move so fast that we jump right past the getting to know each other part to quickly before things get super serious, which is where I think he wants to go. He did say he wants to roll the dice and take a chance with me. It’s so weird to think and even weirder to say I think I have my first official boyfriend. I feel giddy but strange at the same time.


Date 5 and he wants you to meet family? I think his hormones are in over-drive right now and they might be for awhile. You need to slow this pony down. he is so ready for the physical aspect of getting to know you obviously. BUT what his brain isn't saying an your is, is "I don't know you!" Hold the reins and if he refuses to ease then you have a decision to make. Don't get involved too fast. Really get to know one another and if he cannot respect that move on.


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## Not

AVR1962 said:


> Date 5 and he wants you to meet family? I think his hormones are in over-drive right now and they might be for awhile. You need to slow this pony down. he is so ready for the physical aspect of getting to know you obviously. BUT what his brain isn't saying an your is, is "I don't know you!" Hold the reins and if he refuses to ease then you have a decision to make. Don't get involved too fast. Really get to know one another and if he cannot respect that move on.


Agree! I think he’s just super excited lol! It’s flattering but I’m kind of shrewd and a tad bit cynical from previous life experiences so I’m definitely keeping a tight hold on the reins but I definitely want to see where this goes!


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## Emerging Buddhist

Or he could be the love you have looked for your entire life...


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## Deejo

Not said:


> I know, this is really fast for me. I’m the one with my foot on the brake pedal and I will take it slow. What I’m discovering is that, outside of this forum, the wait six months before introducing the kids thing is pretty foreign to a lot of people, at least to a lot of the men I’ve talked with. I do wonder if the fact that his ex moved her boyfriend in soon after they split plays a role in how he sees things. Apparently things with her boyfriend are good and the boys did well with it but I think that’s because new guy let his boys know that he himself was ok with it.
> 
> I’m being careful, promise! 👍


What does your gut tell you?

Gut's usually right. Have fun. Be safe.

The important thing is to recognize whether or not your expectations and desires feel right for you. Can't manage or control his.

I had dating relationships that never moved beyond a hug or a peck on the cheek even after several weeks. Became apparent those who were just terrified, or those who were waiting for something more their style to come along in the dating pool.

I had others experiences that resulted in sex the night we met, and the relationship continued on for months.

I was fine with letting the relationship be whatever it was supposed to be. But ... I can also tell you that I didn't introduce my kids to anyone that I didn't see long term written on the wall. In about 7 years of dating ... and lots of dates. I introduced my children to 3 women. Two of them were only introduced one time as it was circumstantial, like a day event.


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## Not

Deejo said:


> What does your gut tell you?
> 
> Gut's usually right. Have fun. Be safe.
> 
> The important thing is to recognize whether or not your expectations and desires feel right for you. Can't manage or control his.
> 
> I had dating relationships that never moved beyond a hug or a peck on the cheek even after several weeks. Became apparent those who were just terrified, or those who were waiting for something more their style to come along in the dating pool.
> 
> I had others experiences that resulted in sex the night we met, and the relationship continued on for months.
> 
> I was fine with letting the relationship be whatever it was supposed to be. But ... I can also tell you that I didn't introduce my kids to anyone that I didn't see long term written on the wall. In about 7 years of dating ... and lots of dates. I introduced my children to 3 women. Two of them were only introduced one time as it was circumstantial, like a day event.


My gut is calm and says to keep looking at him, this could be really good. With the last guy I was seeing my gut was saying move on and so I did and I felt better right away. Moving on just simply felt right.

Re:the kids, he told me this morning this will be the first time in the two years he’s been dating he’s introduced his boys to anyone and wants to move in baby steps. He’ll be introducing me as a friend. This will be done with a bunch of other people around. I told him I thought this is the smart way to do things. I won’t be forcing myself on them, I’ll let them approach me if they’re curious which I don’t think they will be, they’ll be more interested in the swimming pool lol! 

I have sort of the same attitude as you in regards to what this relationship is going to be. It will be whatever it turns out to be. We have all the time in the world and I just want to enjoy it for as long as it lasts.


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## FeministInPink

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Or he could be the love you have looked for your entire life...


He could be, and if he is, he will respect her need to slow things down if she feels the need to.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Not said:


> My gut is calm and says to keep looking at him, this could be really good. With the last guy I was seeing my gut was saying move on and so I did and I felt better right away. Moving on just simply felt right.
> 
> 
> 
> Re:the kids, he told me this morning this will be the first time in the two years he’s been dating he’s introduced his boys to anyone and wants to move in baby steps. He’ll be introducing me as a friend. This will be done with a bunch of other people around. I told him I thought this is the smart way to do things. I won’t be forcing myself on them, I’ll let them approach me if they’re curious which I don’t think they will be, they’ll be more interested in the swimming pool lol!
> 
> 
> 
> I have sort of the same attitude as you in regards to what this relationship is going to be. It will be whatever it turns out to be. We have all the time in the world and I just want to enjoy it for as long as it lasts.


The things about going with your gut is... sometimes it's not always right. If someone has a history of choosing poorly, their gut instincts may be off and and need to be recalibrated. 
@Not I don't recall your back story--too many people here on TAM to keep straight in my mind--but if your history shows that your picker has made bad choices, then going via gut may not be the best decision, and you should proceed with caution.

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## Not

FeministInPink said:


> The things about going with your gut is... sometimes it's not always right. If someone has a history of choosing poorly, their gut instincts may be off and and need to be recalibrated.
> @Not I don't recall your back story--too many people here on TAM to keep straight in my mind--but if your history shows that your picker has made bad choices, then going via gut may not be the best decision, and you should proceed with caution.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



I made a bad pick and I was married to it for almost 26 years. I paid the price for the choice I made and learned a lot over those two plus decades. I’m definitely proceeding with caution. Those lust chemicals combined with the newness and excitement are intoxicating but I don’t ever want to get back into a situation like the one I had to pull myself out of. Nope and no thanks.


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## notmyjamie

FeministInPink said:


> The things about going with your gut is... sometimes it's not always right. If someone has a history of choosing poorly, their gut instincts may be off and and need to be recalibrated.
> @Not I don't recall your back story--too many people here on TAM to keep straight in my mind--but if your history shows that your picker has made bad choices, then going via gut may not be the best decision, and you should proceed with caution.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I don't trust my gut at all at this point. I've gone out with this guy 3 times now. He's a nice guy, easy to talk to, outgoing, fills in silences well which is good because I'm a bit quiet in person but there are some things about him that are very different from my STBX and the guy I almost married years ago who was very emotionally abusive (BPD) and sometimes I want to shy away from those differences which is my natural inclination and other times I say "screw it...I should go in this opposite direction as the other turned out bad both times" I just have no faith in myself at all.

He seems interested. Texts me after each date thanking me for a nice night and making sure I got home okay. Texts me just to say hello frequently, but not too frequently. Wants to make plans for when we'll get together again. But hasn't given me any indication he's looking for anything more than friendship. But even if that's all he's interested in, he's fun and I could use some new friends so it's all good. 

But I know nothing about dating. I barely dated at all when I was young. I was friends with both of my exes so we sort of fell into romance without the "dating" part. This is all new to me...I don't know the "rules" or ins and outs of it all. Hopefully I'm not screwing it up royally LOL


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## 3Xnocharm

Oh, my gut is THE WORST. You don’t end up divorced three times because you’re a wiz at picking men! I just hope once I end what I’m in currently that I have learned a thing or ten in the last five years. I think I have. I feel like I have my guard up. Hopefully it will serve me well but I guess we’ll see!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

notmyjamie said:


> I don't trust my gut at all at this point. I've gone out with this guy 3 times now. He's a nice guy, easy to talk to, outgoing, fills in silences well which is good because I'm a bit quiet in person but there are some things about him that are very different from my STBX and the guy I almost married years ago who was very emotionally abusive (BPD) and sometimes I want to shy away from those differences which is my natural inclination and other times I say "screw it...I should go in this opposite direction as the other turned out bad both times" I just have no faith in myself at all.
> 
> 
> 
> He seems interested. Texts me after each date thanking me for a nice night and making sure I got home okay. Texts me just to say hello frequently, but not too frequently. Wants to make plans for when we'll get together again. But hasn't given me any indication he's looking for anything more than friendship. But even if that's all he's interested in, he's fun and I could use some new friends so it's all good.
> 
> 
> 
> But I know nothing about dating. I barely dated at all when I was young. I was friends with both of my exes so we sort of fell into romance without the "dating" part. This is all new to me...I don't know the "rules" or ins and outs of it all. Hopefully I'm not screwing it up royally LOL


Sounds like he's into you, but he's taking it slow. You can always ask, there's no harm in that.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Oh, my gut is THE WORST. You don’t end up divorced three times because you’re a wiz at picking men! I just hope once I end what I’m in currently that I have learned a thing or ten in the last five years. I think I have. I feel like I have my guard up. Hopefully it will serve me well but I guess we’ll see!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Girl, BREAK UP WITH HIM ALREADY!

(Said with the utmost love and affection. You deserve so much better.)

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> Girl, BREAK UP WITH HIM ALREADY!
> 
> (Said with the utmost love and affection. You deserve so much better.)
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I know, I know! I'm working on it! I just cant seem to get the words out of my mouth when we are together. And I dont want to do it over text, like he did to me way back when. I mean, I DO, lol! But dont want to be that person.


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## Blondilocks

3Xnocharm said:


> I know, I know! I'm working on it! I just cant seem to get the words out of my mouth when we are together. And I dont want to do it over text, like he did to me way back when. I mean, I DO, lol! But dont want to be that person.


Hold the phone, at one time he broke up with you via text? How is it you're still quasi together? Have you considered just fading to black? No need to have an official breakup - just fade away. It's not like you'll have to return his condoms or anything.


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## 3Xnocharm

Blondilocks said:


> Hold the phone, at one time he broke up with you via text? How is it you're still quasi together? Have you considered just fading to black? No need to have an official breakup - just fade away. It's not like you'll have to return his condoms or anything.


Your last sentence cracked me the hell up! (one of those, its not funny but its funny, kinda things!) Yes, when we were first "together" back in 2014, he broke up with me after 3 months, by text. We stayed friends after that and I still had all the feelings. A lot of good its all done me...


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## Blondilocks

3Xnocharm said:


> *Your last sentence cracked me the hell up*! (one of those, its not funny but its funny, kinda things!) Yes, when we were first "together" back in 2014, he broke up with me after 3 months, by text. We stayed friends after that and I still had all the feelings. A lot of good its all done me...


I keep looking for a tongue-in-cheek emoticon - but, no luck. Glad you took it the way I meant it.:smile2:


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## Hexagon

Ok singles, I need perspective. I need to know if anyone has been or is in my position. 
Right around the time when my divorce became final about a year ago, I messed with/dated here and there. It has since tapered off to zero. This isn't by accident. 
However, with that being said, yesterday was probably one of the more lonely days I've had.
There are days when I crave a woman's touch (figuratively and literally). I do sometimes miss a date, wine tasting trips, movies, etc. When I do miss those days, it hits hard.
But....
They are fleeting.

After the lonely fades, I'm quite content being alone and prefer it. My mother tapped out 35 years ago and swears by not going back into the dating game. She will die alone (I suppose we all do) and I'm not sure I want that for myself. 

I don't have bad self-esteem, I'm fairly handsome for my age, a good dad, I'm intelligent, and anything but a controller. I guess my only real knock that women would find discouraging is that I'm poor. My hours and availability to my child keeps me where I am for the time being. When she starts kindergarten this fall, I'm moving on to a different job. The point of that is that i'm fairly positive I could find a woman if I really wanted.

I'm torn between wanting it and the logical worth/value/point of dating. Financially, dating really is about as cost-ineffective as you can get. My days of paying $70+ before hearing about, "like....Dave Matthews speaks to me" are over. I mean no offense to you ladies here. That is not my objective. But.....where the hell am I right now?
I'm fighting the MGTOW mentality. When I go home this afternoon, I'll go walk my dog, come home and make myself dinner, read a little, play my daughters Nintendo for a bit, then hit the sack. I won't speak to another human after I leave and I am absolutely fine with that.
But......
I do like the ladies.

I don't know where I am here. I can't see a conclusion to where I'm heading. It's quite confusing for me. I need to hear from someone that's been here.


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## 3Xnocharm

@Hexagon, I can relate to how you are feeling, being on your own can be so much easier than being entangled with someone. If you dont feel like dating, then dont. My suggestion would be to NOT go out of your way to purposely date, like getting on the dating sites, etc. If you organically meet someone who you connect with, then follow through with a date and see how things go. In other words, dont go looking, just let it happen if its meant to.


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## Lila

Hexagon said:


> Ok singles, I need perspective. I need to know if anyone has been or is in my position.
> Right around the time when my divorce became final about a year ago, I messed with/dated here and there. It has since tapered off to zero. This isn't by accident.
> However, with that being said, yesterday was probably one of the more lonely days I've had.
> There are days when I crave a woman's touch (figuratively and literally). I do sometimes miss a date, wine tasting trips, movies, etc. When I do miss those days, it hits hard.
> But....
> They are fleeting.
> 
> After the lonely fades, I'm quite content being alone and prefer it. My mother tapped out 35 years ago and swears by not going back into the dating game. She will die alone (I suppose we all do) and I'm not sure I want that for myself.
> 
> I don't have bad self-esteem, I'm fairly handsome for my age, a good dad, I'm intelligent, and anything but a controller. I guess my only real knock that women would find discouraging is that I'm poor. My hours and availability to my child keeps me where I am for the time being. When she starts kindergarten this fall, I'm moving on to a different job. The point of that is that i'm fairly positive I could find a woman if I really wanted.
> 
> I'm torn between wanting it and the logical worth/value/point of dating. Financially, dating really is about as cost-ineffective as you can get. My days of paying $70+ before hearing about, "like....Dave Matthews speaks to me" are over. I mean no offense to you ladies here. That is not my objective. But.....where the hell am I right now?
> I'm fighting the MGTOW mentality. When I go home this afternoon, I'll go walk my dog, come home and make myself dinner, read a little, play my daughters Nintendo for a bit, then hit the sack. I won't speak to another human after I leave and I am absolutely fine with that.
> But......
> I do like the ladies.
> 
> I don't know where I am here. I can't see a conclusion to where I'm heading. It's quite confusing for me. I need to hear from someone that's been here.



I am not a man. I "date" people but like your mom, I have accepted I will be alone for the rest of my life. 

I have learned that selfishness while single is not a bad thing as long as everyone is up front and honest about their intentions. 

I have also learned that with the exception of a serious relationship, I can absolutely find people who have similar intentions as me. The key is to keep my requirements for the other person relative to that which is most important to me relative to what I need from them. So first figure out what kind of relationship you want and then figure out the qualities of the women you'd like. Determine if those two things conflict and if they do, figure out what you can and can't live with. You'll know what you need to do to find the kind of relationship you want with the person who also wants the same thing. Does that make sense?


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## Hexagon

3Xnocharm said:


> @Hexagon, I can relate to how you are feeling, being on your own can be so much easier than being entangled with someone. If you dont feel like dating, then dont. My suggestion would be to NOT go out of your way to purposely date, like getting on the dating sites, etc. If you organically meet someone who you connect with, then follow through with a date and see how things go. In other words, dont go looking, just let it happen if its meant to.


How did you prevent yourself from becoming a bitter old recluse? Should I even fight that? Should I consider my own mental health? I'm worried about becoming too comfortable with my own isolation to the point it makes me weird or unhealthy. Well.....weirder.


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## FeministInPink

@Hexagon There's no rule that says you have only two options (you must be aggressively dating with the intention of finding a life partner or MGTOW stay single forever!). It's perfectly ok to choose to stay intentionally single in the short term and focus on other things, with the option of dating again when it does work for you emotionally, financially, time-wise, and/or whatever other reasons you might have for not dating in the present. And you always have the option to, if you meet someone amazing, say to yourself, "ok, I'm going to make an exception for this person, and if she as great as I think she is, then she will understand my limitations right now and appreciate that I'm making an exception for her."

Honestly, I think a lot of people would benefit from this approach. If you're focusing on yourself and being self-aware, you're not desperately searching for someone else, and as a result you will more readily recognize red flags and you will be less likely to overlook or dismiss them. When your time, money, and energy is precious and in limited supply, you're less likely to waste it on someone who doesn't deserve it.

And I'll say this: I absolutely understand where you are coming from this right now. My last relationship ended this past August, and I am still intentionally single right now. I'm emotionally ready to date again, and I do miss having a partner and all the things that go along with it, but most of the time I'm cool being alone--those moments are quite fleeting. And they really aren't bad moments or make me sad, because I know that I will date again and meet someone else at some point in the future. But right now, I have too much on my plate and other things I need to focus on, and dating/being in a relationship would be too distracting and use up too much of my time/energy/money.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

Hexagon said:


> How did you prevent yourself from becoming a bitter old recluse? Should I even fight that? Should I consider my own mental health? I'm worried about becoming too comfortable with my own isolation to the point it makes me weird or unhealthy. Well.....weirder.


LOL! Well I am not old yet, for one! :grin2: You can still go out and be social with your friends or family, not dating isnt a prison sentence where you are locked into your house! Enjoying your own company is not isolation, think of it more as solace. Isolation would be you avoiding other people at all costs. I mainly just remind myself that I can do whatever the hell I want and dont need anyone else's approval for it, or to consider what another person might want instead. And I know where all my money goes! Its all very zen, actually. 

Now an example of the bitter old recluse would be my second husband. He hates everybody. So after I left, he really did become a hermit. He even cut ties with his own family. He cant stand anyone thinking or doing or believing differently than him, so other than his work, he cut the rest of the world off. Does that sound like you? I dont think it does!


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## wilson

Hexagon said:


> How did you prevent yourself from becoming a bitter old recluse? Should I even fight that? Should I consider my own mental health? I'm worried about becoming too comfortable with my own isolation to the point it makes me weird or unhealthy. Well.....weirder.


I can understand not being interested in the hassles of dating, but that doesn't mean you have to be totally isolated. Do activities where lots of people come together to do something like take a class or or do a project. For example, take fitness classes or volunteer at a community playhouse. Those kinds of things provide plenty of opportunity for social interaction even if it's not at a dating level. And because you see the same people over and over, it's natural and easy for friendships and more to form.

The risk of isolating yourself is that the more you isolate yourself, the more you want to isolate yourself. It can make you feel detached from the world and can lead to depression. People who have more of a social life are generally happier and live longer. 

Since you have a young daughter, you may want to look into activities which include her. For example, volunteer to help with a school play or bake sale. This will allow you the opportunity for social interaction without worrying about getting a babysitter. I would strongly recommend you do *not* go into these activities with your daughter as a way to get dates, but it is possible that you may meet someone who you end up dating.


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## FeministInPink

Hexagon said:


> How did you prevent yourself from becoming a bitter old recluse? Should I even fight that? Should I consider my own mental health? I'm worried about becoming too comfortable with my own isolation to the point it makes me weird or unhealthy. Well.....weirder.


You maintain a social life. See friends and do things/activites that make you happy. Find joy in life without a relationship. If you don't want to become a recluse, make a point to get out of the house at least once or twice a week (not including work).

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Not

Hexagon said:


> Ok singles, I need perspective. I need to know if anyone has been or is in my position.
> Right around the time when my divorce became final about a year ago, I messed with/dated here and there. It has since tapered off to zero. This isn't by accident.
> However, with that being said, yesterday was probably one of the more lonely days I've had.
> There are days when I crave a woman's touch (figuratively and literally). I do sometimes miss a date, wine tasting trips, movies, etc. When I do miss those days, it hits hard.
> But....
> They are fleeting.
> 
> After the lonely fades, I'm quite content being alone and prefer it. My mother tapped out 35 years ago and swears by not going back into the dating game. She will die alone (I suppose we all do) and I'm not sure I want that for myself.
> 
> I don't have bad self-esteem, I'm fairly handsome for my age, a good dad, I'm intelligent, and anything but a controller. I guess my only real knock that women would find discouraging is that I'm poor. My hours and availability to my child keeps me where I am for the time being. When she starts kindergarten this fall, I'm moving on to a different job. The point of that is that i'm fairly positive I could find a woman if I really wanted.
> 
> I'm torn between wanting it and the logical worth/value/point of dating. Financially, dating really is about as cost-ineffective as you can get. My days of paying $70+ before hearing about, "like....Dave Matthews speaks to me" are over. I mean no offense to you ladies here. That is not my objective. But.....where the hell am I right now?
> I'm fighting the MGTOW mentality. When I go home this afternoon, I'll go walk my dog, come home and make myself dinner, read a little, play my daughters Nintendo for a bit, then hit the sack. I won't speak to another human after I leave and I am absolutely fine with that.
> But......
> I do like the ladies.
> 
> I don't know where I am here. I can't see a conclusion to where I'm heading. It's quite confusing for me. I need to hear from someone that's been here.


I’m not where you are but there have got to be women out there who feel the same as you, women who value their quality alone time just as much as you do. You won’t find them though if you aren’t out there actively looking. Also, I believe that it is possible to meet someone and have a relationship where there is an understanding that alone time is valuable, because it is, and for that to be mutually respected.

I’m the type who’s uncomfortable with men paying for my dinners and drinks, that’s not what I got into dating for and I can’t be the only female who feels this way. There are other options for dates that will cost next to nothing and I think provide better “get to know you” time than noisy restaurants and bars. Take advantage of the fact that it’s spring. Do something active and outside. I took my new guy downtown two days ago and we just walked, talked and window shopped and it was way better than sitting at a table somewhere for two hours. We stopped midway through and grabbed ice cream cones and ate them outside.


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## Not

I’ve spent quite a bit of time with new guy. 8 out of 12 days, yep I’m counting! He talks so much that it’s next to impossible for him to hide who he is lol! ( I actually wonder if he’s ADHD). Which is awesome, he’s an open book. He described himself as the class clown on his online profile and he most definitely is and I can so use that kind of fun in my life. He’s so active and tells me he’s going to get me out of the habit of being in the house and I can really use that in my life too. Sitting in the house is depressing. I’ll go to his place and hang out with him, his roommate and their friends and I enjoy every single minute. I can use so much of him in my life.

This morning he was texting me pictures of a project he’s working on at work showing me how the process looks at each stage. I thought it was really sweet that he wants me to see what he does. He’s so open and I’m not but he makes me want to be. He doesn’t seem to be inhibited in anyway and I admire that. 

I’ve decided to go on that trip with him. Ten days down on the gulf coast with him, his boys, his siblings/spouses and nieces and his dad. It’ll be a great opportunity to get to know him even better and give me a chance to get the hell out of dodge for some much needed R&R.


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## notmyjamie

Not said:


> I’m the type who’s uncomfortable with men paying for my dinners and drinks, that’s not what I got into dating for and I can’t be the only female who feels this way. There are other options for dates that will cost next to nothing and I think provide better “get to know you” time than noisy restaurants and bars. Take advantage of the fact that it’s spring. Do something active and outside. I took my new guy downtown two days ago and we just walked, talked and window shopped and it was way better than sitting at a table somewhere for two hours. We stopped midway through and grabbed ice cream cones and ate them outside.


You are definitely not the only woman who feels that way. I've gone out to dinner/drinks with the same guy a few times already. Very nice guy. I tried to split the check on the first date but he wouldn't hear of it. He tried to do that again on the second date and I wouldn't hear of it. We've been splitting things up fairly equally since then. 

The other day we went to a park near us and just walked around. There is a spot with a huge cliff and the view was spectacular. Then we went back to his apartment and watched the hockey game. It was a nice night. We had gotten appetizers before going to the park. The entire date cost $22 with tip. I know he is not rolling in dough. In fact, I'd venture to say I make a fair amount more than he does. My friend told me I should walk away because of that. Um...nope, that's not what I base my opinion of a guy on...I want someone who can have fun, listen, laugh, and wants to spend time with me too. He's a very nice guy and very respectful, knows I'm just starting to date after being with my STBX for 25 years so he's taking things slowly. I really appreciate that...much more than I'd ever appreciate money being spent on me. I have my own money, I don't need anyone else's.


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## Not

notmyjamie said:


> You are definitely not the only woman who feels that way. I've gone out to dinner/drinks with the same guy a few times already. Very nice guy. I tried to split the check on the first date but he wouldn't hear of it. He tried to do that again on the second date and I wouldn't hear of it. We've been splitting things up fairly equally since then.
> 
> The other day we went to a park near us and just walked around. There is a spot with a huge cliff and the view was spectacular. Then we went back to his apartment and watched the hockey game. It was a nice night. We had gotten appetizers before going to the park. The entire date cost $22 with tip. I know he is not rolling in dough. In fact, I'd venture to say I make a fair amount more than he does. My friend told me I should walk away because of that. Um...nope, that's not what I base my opinion of a guy on...I want someone who can have fun, listen, laugh, and wants to spend time with me too. He's a very nice guy and very respectful, knows I'm just starting to date after being with my STBX for 25 years so he's taking things slowly. I really appreciate that...much more than I'd ever appreciate money being spent on me. I have my own money, I don't need anyone else's.


Totally agree. The first time new guy and I went out for dinner, which was our third date, I paid the check when he left the table to go to the restroom. I wanted to set the tone for how things would be if we continued to do things like that. He did question me but had no problem when I told him I’m not in this for free dinners, I’m in this to get to know him. We’re equals looking for the same thing.


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## Betrayedone

2&out said:


> Glad to hear you did not have any damage. I didn't get quite as lucky. Or maybe I did ! I'll be getting a new garage as a tree came down on the corner of one of mine. The world is now down one '64 Vette. Car a lost cause/scrap but with the insurance I'll be getting a nice bigger new garage !


wow.....that's a killer....I also have a 64 vette in the garage......


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## Laurentium

Hexagon said:


> Ok singles, I need perspective. I need to know if anyone has been or is in my position.
> Right around the time when my divorce became final about a year ago, I messed with/dated here and there. It has since tapered off to zero. This isn't by accident.
> However, with that being said, yesterday was probably one of the more lonely days I've had.
> There are days when I crave a woman's touch (figuratively and literally). I do sometimes miss a date, wine tasting trips, movies, etc. When I do miss those days, it hits hard.
> But....
> They are fleeting.
> 
> After the lonely fades, I'm quite content being alone and prefer it.


Yeah, I could have written much of that. My situation is the same, except no children.


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## 3Xnocharm

Welp y’all, I did it. 


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## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> Welp y’all, I did it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How are you feeling?


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## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> How are you feeling?




I’m ok. He was understanding and was pretty much expecting it. He admitted he wasn’t feeding into the relationship, and got that that was why I was so empty. I did apologize for being a crappy girlfriend the last six months or so, only fair to own my part. He blames his current circumstances as to why he hasn’t been engaged like he should be. I mentioned that I didn’t feel like he’s really in love with me, and he denied that, said it wasn’t true. Eh... I just don’t feel it. He still made it all about him, just like everything always has been, but I just let that go, I didn’t feel that calling him out more was really warranted or beneficial. 




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## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> I’m ok. He was understanding and was pretty much expecting it. He admitted he wasn’t feeding into the relationship, and got that that was why I was so empty. I did apologize for being a crappy girlfriend the last six months or so, only fair to own my part. He blames his current circumstances as to why he hasn’t been engaged like he should be. I mentioned that I didn’t feel like he’s really in love with me, and he denied that, said it wasn’t true. Eh... I just don’t feel it. He still made it all about him, just like everything always has been, but I just let that go, I didn’t feel that calling him out more was really warranted or beneficial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So all in all it sounds like it went well. You must be feeling relieved it’s done.


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## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> So all in all it sounds like it went well. You must be feeling relieved it’s done.


I am. But I am bracing myself, its going to hit me soon.


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## frusdil

Wolf1974 said:


> So she said yes! Went off perfectly and she had no idea I was going to ask. She loves the ring, the size was right, and she loved that I picked a lighthouse to do it
> Still in Maine then back home tomorrow
> 
> Very happy and great weight off my shoulder. Keeping this from everyone was hard!
> 
> Sorry tried to upload photos but it says the files are to big. :frown2:


CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! This is wonderful news 

I was wondering if it had happened, had to go to your profile to search back to find out though...much quicker than going back through all the pages rofl.

Fabulous!!!


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## Cynthia

3Xnocharm said:


> I am. But I am bracing myself, its going to hit me soon.


You mean it's going to hit you that you're free to explore who may be out there that has the love to give and receive? :grin2:


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I am. But I am bracing myself, its going to hit me soon.


3x, I'm so proud of you for finally doing it! You deserve so much better than what you were getting from him.

And in your re-telling of how it went, I'm just hearing a lot of excuses on his part. He might actually love you, but of he won't put that into action and give you the relationship and be the partner you deserve, then that "love" isn't worth much. 

The first couple months are going to auck, but it will get better.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> 3x, I'm so proud of you for finally doing it! You deserve so much better than what you were getting from him.
> 
> And in your re-telling of how it went, I'm just hearing a lot of excuses on his part. He might actually love you, but of he won't put that into action and give you the relationship and be the partner you deserve, then that "love" isn't worth much.
> 
> The first couple months are going to auck, but it will get better.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Thanks FIP. He's known that he hasnt been being a real partner, and just keeps himself stuck in the crap situation he is in. Only he can fix it, talking about it accomplishes nothing. When I brought up how long its been since I've had sex, and how that wasnt fair to me, and how he didnt seem to be bothered by it like I was, he didnt say anything. WTF. Not even I'm sorry, which wouldn't have changed anything, but would have at least been nice to hear. While he was accepting of the end, I know it hurts him, and I feel bad that I hurt him. But it needed to be done. Not sure where to go from here, but I will just take it a day at a time I guess.


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## Blondilocks

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks FIP. He's known that he hasnt been being a real partner, and just keeps himself stuck in the crap situation he is in. Only he can fix it, talking about it accomplishes nothing*. When I brought up how long its been since I've had sex, and how that wasnt fair to me, and how he didnt seem to be bothered by it like I was, he didnt say anything. WTF. *Not even I'm sorry, which wouldn't have changed anything, but would have at least been nice to hear. While he was accepting of the end, I know it hurts him, and I feel bad that I hurt him. But it needed to be done. Not sure where to go from here, but I will just take it a day at a time I guess.


Of course, he didn't say anything because it had nothing to do with him! I don't understand why you felt the need to apologize for being a crap girlfriend for the past 6 months because you, girl, were not a girlfriend. You were a friend who happened to be female. Don't feel bad for hurting him - it's one more thing he can feel sorry for himself for.


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## 3Xnocharm

I've been saying for a while now that we are just friends who arent allowed to date. :|


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## lifeistooshort

3Xnocharm said:


> I've been saying for a while now that we are just friends who arent allowed to date. :|


Well done sister.

He isn't in love with you.....you'd feel it if he was.

Your future is bright!


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## 3Xnocharm

lifeistooshort said:


> Well done sister.
> 
> 
> 
> He isn't in love with you.....you'd feel it if he was.
> 
> 
> 
> Your future is bright!




Thank you! 


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks FIP. He's known that he hasnt been being a real partner, and just keeps himself stuck in the crap situation he is in. Only he can fix it, talking about it accomplishes nothing. When I brought up how long its been since I've had sex, and how that wasnt fair to me, and how he didnt seem to be bothered by it like I was, he didnt say anything. WTF. Not even I'm sorry, which wouldn't have changed anything, but would have at least been nice to hear. While he was accepting of the end, I know it hurts him, and I feel bad that I hurt him. But it needed to be done. Not sure where to go from here, but I will just take it a day at a time I guess.


Men who are invested in a woman and their relationship strive to actually FIX problems. They don't sit around and wallow in their crap situations. (There ARE men who do this, and they are not worthy partners).

As someone else said, don't feel bad that you hurt him.  He did this to himself. And, not to be unkind, if he wasn't invested in you or the relationship, he may not be as hurt as you would like to think he is. Regardless, you are not responsible for his feelings. If he feels hurt or guilty, he deserves it considering the crap he's put you through.


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## FeministInPink

lifeistooshort said:


> Well done sister.
> 
> He isn't in love with you.....you'd feel it if he was.
> 
> Your future is bright!


YES!!!! If a man is really in love with you, you don't have to wonder or ask, because you KNOW by his actions and behavior. You would feel it.


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## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> Men who are invested in a woman and their relationship strive to actually FIX problems. They don't sit around and wallow in their crap situations. (There ARE men who do this, and they are not worthy partners).
> 
> .



It’s funny you say this because I even mentioned to him, that having someone you are in love with and WANT to be with should motivate you into taking some kind of action. 

His staying in a crap job living with his folks, and not taking steps to fix his sexual issues says to me he isn’t in love. (I didn’t say this part but sharing here how I feel)



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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> It’s funny you say this because I even mentioned to him, that having someone you are in love with and WANT to be with should motivate you into taking some kind of action.
> 
> His staying in a crap job living with his folks, and not taking steps to fix his sexual issues says to me he isn’t in love. (I didn’t say this part but sharing here how I feel)
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wait, HE LIVES WITH HIS PARENTS?!?

Gurrrrrlllll. Seriously. Do not date a man who lives with his parents. NO.


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## 3Xnocharm

Yep. Was supposed to be a temporary thing... in 2014. 


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## notmyjamie

3Xnocharm said:


> Yep. Was supposed to be a temporary thing... in 2014.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm new enough to TAM that I don't really know your whole story but oh my..it sounds like he has inertia disease...can't do a damn thing to move himself forward. 

I'm glad you're free!!!


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Yep. Was supposed to be a temporary thing... in 2014.


WOW. 3x, I'm wondering what made him seem like a winner in the first place, why you started dating and hung around for all this time? Because the more I hear, the more he sounds like a L-O-S-E-R. And you deserve SOOOOO much better than that.


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## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> WOW. 3x, I'm wondering what made him seem like a winner in the first place, why you started dating and hung around for all this time? Because the more I hear, the more he sounds like a L-O-S-E-R. And you deserve SOOOOO much better than that.


Yeah, I know. We had a good time together, clicked pretty well personality wise. He was in a rough transitional position when we first started out, so I knew that there was going to be probably about a year, maybe year and a half, where he would be working to get himself back on track. HA, well THAT hasnt happened. Still. And between this and the no sex, there is NOTHING here.


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## Blondilocks

FeministInPink said:


> Wait, HE LIVES WITH HIS PARENTS?!?
> 
> Gurrrrrlllll. Seriously. Do not date a man who lives with his parents. NO.


Yeah, I read that and was WTH?

3X, if you hadn't hid this tidbit, we could have nagged (er,gotten) you out of this situation a LOT earlier!!! :grin2:


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## 3Xnocharm

Blondilocks said:


> Yeah, I read that and was WTH?
> 
> 3X, if you hadn't hid this tidbit, we could have nagged (er,gotten) you out of this situation a LOT earlier!!! :grin2:


Ah thus the reason it was hidden! LOL! Honestly it was just too embarrassing to put out there. I didnt put my situation out there in its entirety for a long time because I already knew what I needed to do, and knew I wouldnt take care of it until I felt ready. I felt crappy enough on my own, lol....


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Yeah, I know. *We had a good time together, clicked pretty well personality wise. * He was in a rough transitional position when we first started out, so I knew that there was going to be probably about a year, maybe year and a half, where he would be working to get himself back on track. HA, well THAT hasnt happened. Still. And between this and the no sex, there is NOTHING here.


It's funny how the bolded above gives us cause to get involve with men who don't deserve us. I had this with Real Estate, too, and it kind of blinded me to his faults and shortcomings. 

The bolded above is important, but I'm learning that when we have that with someone, it means we must be a little more vigilant and critical in regards to identifying traits that potentially make such a man a poor choice in partner.


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## farsidejunky

FeministInPink said:


> Men who are invested in a woman and their relationship strive to actually FIX problems. They don't sit around and wallow in their crap situations. (There ARE men who do this, and they are not worthy partners).
> 
> 
> 
> As someone else said, don't feel bad that you hurt him. He did this to himself. And, not to be unkind, if he wasn't invested in you or the relationship, he may not be as hurt as you would like to think he is. Regardless, you are not responsible for his feelings. If he feels hurt or guilty, he deserves it considering the crap he's put you through.


Yes and no, FIP.

I'm not in the business of fixing problems that are sourced primarily or from others. In that instance, it requires a boundary, lest one gets sucked into the codependent trap of trying to fix somebody else's problem.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

FeministInPink said:


> Wait, HE LIVES WITH HIS PARENTS?!?
> 
> Gurrrrrlllll. Seriously. Do not date a man who lives with his parents. NO.


Just breeze over my last post in regards to this particular situation...



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## blazer prophet

Faithful Wife said:


> My update: my mom is moving into an independent living apartment of her own, which means I’m moving into my own apartment of my own!
> 
> Woooooot!!
> 
> I loves my mom but it does suck to be a care taker and also to have a roommate. In her new place she has more help and so many more opportunities. In my new place I’ll be able to only have to clean up after myself, walk naked throughout the place, and have guests overnight.
> 
> Wheeeeee!!!!
> 
> I’ve literally never had my “own” place.


Now behave yourself.

NOT!


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## attheend02

3Xnocharm said:


> Welp y’all, I did it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good luck 3x! I'm sure you will find what you are looking for.


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## AVR1962

Hexagon said:


> Ok singles, I need perspective. I need to know if anyone has been or is in my position.
> Right around the time when my divorce became final about a year ago, I messed with/dated here and there. It has since tapered off to zero. This isn't by accident.
> However, with that being said, yesterday was probably one of the more lonely days I've had.
> There are days when I crave a woman's touch (figuratively and literally). I do sometimes miss a date, wine tasting trips, movies, etc. When I do miss those days, it hits hard.
> But....
> They are fleeting.
> 
> After the lonely fades, I'm quite content being alone and prefer it. My mother tapped out 35 years ago and swears by not going back into the dating game. She will die alone (I suppose we all do) and I'm not sure I want that for myself.
> 
> I don't have bad self-esteem, I'm fairly handsome for my age, a good dad, I'm intelligent, and anything but a controller. I guess my only real knock that women would find discouraging is that I'm poor. My hours and availability to my child keeps me where I am for the time being. When she starts kindergarten this fall, I'm moving on to a different job. The point of that is that i'm fairly positive I could find a woman if I really wanted.
> 
> I'm torn between wanting it and the logical worth/value/point of dating. Financially, dating really is about as cost-ineffective as you can get. My days of paying $70+ before hearing about, "like....Dave Matthews speaks to me" are over. I mean no offense to you ladies here. That is not my objective. But.....where the hell am I right now?
> I'm fighting the MGTOW mentality. When I go home this afternoon, I'll go walk my dog, come home and make myself dinner, read a little, play my daughters Nintendo for a bit, then hit the sack. I won't speak to another human after I leave and I am absolutely fine with that.
> But......
> I do like the ladies.
> 
> I don't know where I am here. I can't see a conclusion to where I'm heading. It's quite confusing for me. I need to hear from someone that's been here.


I feel much the same. The first two years I really tried and it just seemed I ran into brick wall after brick wall and even though I have met some wonderful men, I wonder if there is such a thing as Mr Right. I, personally, miss coming home and being able to vent my day and get it off my chest. I miss being able to cook for someone....I eat alot of frozen dinners now. I miss a companion. This living alone really stinks but I would rather have it than live with someone who ignores most of the time. I am hoping with time the path will be more clear for me and hopefully you find the same.


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## FeministInPink

farsidejunky said:


> Just breeze over my last post in regards to this particular situation...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Ha ha ha


----------



## FeministInPink

farsidejunky said:


> Yes and no, FIP.
> 
> I'm not in the business of fixing problems that are sourced primarily or from others. In that instance, it requires a boundary, lest one gets sucked into the codependent trap of trying to fix somebody else's problem.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


But in general, yes, you are right--no one should be responsible for fixing problems created by or belonging to someone else! But when in a situation like 3x, where the man is the source of the problem, he should seek to fix it. (And vice versa, if the woman is the source of the problem.)


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## FeministInPink

Guys! I don't have a new job yet, but I've had two interviews this week (one is definitely moving forward to the next stage), one next week and hopefully one more next! One of these jobs has to work out, right???

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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Guys! I don't have a new job yet, but I've had two interviews this week (one is definitely moving forward to the next stage), one next week and hopefully one more next! One of these jobs has to work out, right???
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Good luck FIP. I recently quit my job due to the owner being a total ass. Anger/rage issues to the point I didn’t feel safe at work. Have no idea how to explain THAT to potential new employers. I’ve been home for 3 weeks now. Not broke but getting really nervous. I thought about reaching out to you. 


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> Good luck FIP. I recently quit my job due to the owner being a total ass. Anger/rage issues to the point I didn’t feel safe at work. Have no idea how to explain THAT to potential new employers. I’ve been home for 3 weeks now. Not broke but getting really nervous. I thought about reaching out to you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This was the new job that you just got recently? That really sucks, I'm sorry 

And thanks! I'm hoping that one of these will work out, and I'm still applying for other jobs, too.

I also started delivering for InstaCart. (Tip your delivery person, we don't get paid much!) But it's helping. And I'm moving at the end of this month! So I have to deal with that, and trying to find someone to take my place in the house. It's crazy round here!

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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> This was the new job that you just got recently? That really sucks, I'm sorry
> 
> And thanks! I'm hoping that one of these will work out, and I'm still applying for other jobs, too.
> 
> I also started delivering for InstaCart. (Tip your delivery person, we don't get paid much!) But it's helping. And I'm moving at the end of this month! So I have to deal with that, and trying to find someone to take my place in the house. It's crazy round here!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk





Yes...it was the new(er) job. I had just gotten a raise but I had to fight tooth and nail to get it. Was supposed to get it in 90 days but it took over twice that and many arguments. Some things aren’t worth all the money in the world. 

I’ve been considering DoorDash myself but I’m going to give the search a little longer. My dogs do best when I have a steady schedule. 

I’ll be thinking about you. Hugs.


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## In Absentia

I guess I'm "officially" single too now... hello...


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## Elizabeth001

In Absentia said:


> I guess I'm "officially" single too now... hello...




Welcome to the singles thread!


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## In Absentia

Elizabeth001 said:


> Welcome to the singles thread!


Thanks! It's a bit weird, but there you go... :smile2:


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## notmyjamie

In Absentia said:


> I guess I'm "officially" single too now... hello...


Have you moved out? It’s definitely an adjustment. You’ll do ok...you might find that you feel much better about things. Being alone is way less lonely than being with someone who makes you feel alone. Welcome to the Singles thread!!!


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## 3Xnocharm

In Absentia said:


> I guess I'm "officially" single too now... hello...




High five my friend! Welcome to the other side!



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## FeministInPink

In Absentia said:


> I guess I'm "officially" single too now... hello...


It takes some getting used to, but the other side is a good place to be 

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## In Absentia

notmyjamie said:


> Have you moved out? It’s definitely an adjustment. You’ll do ok...you might find that you feel much better about things. Being alone is way less lonely than being with someone who makes you feel alone. Welcome to the Singles thread!!!


No, I haven't moved out... yet! Still a few things to sort out, for example telling the children officially when they are all back at home next month. After that, our separation will be in the open (some of my wife's family already know, but my family doesn't) and I will be able to tell the rest of the world... :smile2:

All in all it's very scary. And also upsetting, since my wife confirmed to me the other day that she hasn't loved me for a few years and stayed/faked it for the kids... :frown2: Hopefully, therapy will help.


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## notmyjamie

In Absentia said:


> All in all it's very scary. And also upsetting, since my wife confirmed to me the other day that she hasn't loved me for a few years and stayed/faked it for the kids... :frown2: Hopefully, therapy will help.


I'm sorry, I have no doubt that hurts a lot. I completely understand what it's like to find out the person you're with, who you thought loved you, has been faking it. It's a particularly cruel thing to do to a person. 

You probably don't believe me, but it is better to be out of that situation. Living a lie is hell. Being alone is much better than living a lie. Plus, now you're free to go find someone you can live an authentic life with and be happy.

I hope things go smoothly when you tell your children.


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## In Absentia

notmyjamie said:


> I'm sorry, I have no doubt that hurts a lot. I completely understand what it's like to find out the person you're with, who you thought loved you, has been faking it. It's a particularly cruel thing to do to a person.
> 
> You probably don't believe me, but it is better to be out of that situation. Living a lie is hell. Being alone is much better than living a lie. Plus, now you're free to go find someone you can live an authentic life with and be happy.
> 
> I hope things go smoothly when you tell your children.


Thank you... the last 10 years, at least, have been a lie, when I thought we got over the difficulties, we found common ground and we were getting somewhere... nope... she was waiting for the kids to be out of the house. I must admit I've been difficult to live with and carry a lot of resentment, but we were doing ok. I was working on it. Someone in my thread said she is using her issues to blame me. Probably correct. I need to stop being co-dependent and find someone who really loves me. Will that ever happen? Who knows and it's the last of my worries right now. Need to heal first.


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## notmyjamie

In Absentia said:


> Thank you... the last 10 years, at least, have been a lie, when I thought we got over the difficulties, we found common ground and we were getting somewhere... nope... she was waiting for the kids to be out of the house. I must admit I've been difficult to live with and carry a lot of resentment, but we were doing ok. I was working on it. Someone in my thread said she is using her issues to blame me. Probably correct. I need to stop being co-dependent and find someone who really loves me. Will that ever happen? Who knows and it's the last of my worries right now. Need to heal first.


That is such a huge betrayal and it won't be all that easy to get over. Once you detach from her it will get easier. Move into the other house NOW and start detaching. Things got SO much easier for me to accept once I moved into the second apartment. I can't tell you how important starting the detaching process is in starting to heal. Please, please, just move out already.


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## AVR1962

Well, some of you saw this coming, I broke up with my boyfriend of almost 2 years....the man that was invited to my house for Thanksgiving and said he had to work and then called an hour after he knew when we were eating to tell me he got a call that morning telling him he didn't have to work so he went back to bed. I broke up with him after that and 10 days later he asked if we could talk. He told me he loved me and I meant the world to him. He was making a real effort, he truly did. Fixed my windshield wipers in the middle of the night before we had a storm, was making sure he answered my calls. 

His daughter left her husband once again. She got beat up pretty good this time. She moved in with him and I know his focus was to get her back on her feet, I completely understand that. She had to find a job and a car which he helped with. he did try to find time for us but something happened and I don't know what exactly. I know he put the loan for her car in his name and she was supposed to pay for her insurance and for the payment, at least that is what he said. Perhaps he was paying it for a short time, I really don't know but he started working 7 days a week. 

He called me one night and said he was trying to figure out how we could spend more time together and was planning to take first 2 Saturdays of the month off. He said he knew we need to spend more time together. I told him I was relieved to hear him say this and told him I would like to do something fun that weekend. His response was, "I am unavailable this weekend." Unavailable? rather than, "I am working this weekend." I just got off the phone. I felt I was being fed BS. 10 days went by and he never sent a text or called so I texted him and told him that I needed to move on. He said he understood and in the first 24 hours of the break up I heard from him more than I have heard from him in some time. 

I figure the man has some serious commitment issues and the thought of a relationship makes him feel suffocated although I gave him plenty of room and time to himself. I know he works some crazy hours and I gave him alot of compassion but I feel he was not completely honest or sincere. It was just a feeling and as much as I liked the man I could not see us moving forward together as there always seemed to be a road block and I do believe it was because he was not the type to make a commitment. he told me a year ago that he had not seen anyone as long as he'd seen me since his marriage and he has been divorced over 25 years.

There were alot of warning signs I did not heed and I passed them up thinking that we were "friends" and I could move on any time but I became very attached.

I know I did the right thing and now it is just a matter of putting my feet one in front of the other and not letting this man pull on my heart strings.


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## notmyjamie

AVR1962 said:


> Well, some of you saw this coming, I broke up with my boyfriend of almost 2 years....


I'm sorry for the breakup but it does seem like it needed to happen. It still hurts though, I'm sure. 

*hugs*


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## 3Xnocharm

I’m sorry it didn’t work out AVR. Yes we may have seen it coming from our side of the internet, but you felt there was something here worth trying for, so it’s good you followed it through. Now you realize more of what you want and deserve, and are available to find it. 




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## Elizabeth001

I actually had a good....no GREAT date tonight! Who woulda thunk?

Decided to try POF again but with a different approach. No picture and basic info and bingo!

I’m so hyped I have no idea how I’ll get to sleep tonight. Excited!


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## In Absentia

notmyjamie said:


> That is such a huge betrayal and it won't be all that easy to get over. Once you detach from her it will get easier. Move into the other house NOW and start detaching. Things got SO much easier for me to accept once I moved into the second apartment. I can't tell you how important starting the detaching process is in starting to heal. Please, please, just move out already.


yes, I will start fixing the few things that need mending... look forward to it...


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## AVR1962

3Xnocharm said:


> I’m sorry it didn’t work out AVR. Yes we may have seen it coming from our side of the internet, but you felt there was something here worth trying for, so it’s good you followed it through. Now you realize more of what you want and deserve, and are available to find it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! he is now texting me how much he loves me with kisses and hearts, saying I am the sweetest, kindest person, telling me to be careful as there's lots of men who will take advantage of my kind side (as I felt he has). So I asked him if we could talk. His response, "I thought you were moving on. If I get a break today I will call you." Really? I do not understand men!


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## 3Xnocharm

You'd be better off to cut the contact. You know his game.


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## Cynthia

AVR1962 said:


> Thanks! he is now texting me how much he loves me with kisses and hearts, saying I am the sweetest, kindest person, telling me to be careful as there's lots of men who will take advantage of my kind side (as I felt he has). So I asked him if we could talk. His response, "I thought you were moving on. If I get a break today I will call you." Really? I do not understand men!


This is not about him being a man. This is about him being manipulative. Say good-bye and block him. He isn't doing you any good.


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## 3Xnocharm

CynthiaDe said:


> This is not about him being a man. This is about him being manipulative. Say good-bye and block him. He isn't doing you any good.


This. I cant figure out why you even asked if he wanted to talk...

But I do know letting go is hard...still in the thick of it myself.


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## AVR1962

CynthiaDe said:


> This is not about him being a man. This is about him being manipulative. Say good-bye and block him. He isn't doing you any good.


Yes, it is. The true colors have come out. I saw as he blocked his daughter.....refused to talk to her because she married a man he disapproved of. he could say nothing nice about his daughter. He was the same with one of his sisters, could not say anything nice. Said he never liked her. He told me that all the ladies he dated before got on his nerves and he had to get away and as he said all of this I knew I would not be the exception. So I pull away because he is obviously not interested and as soon as I do he is all nice and loving, making contact. So I played his game....my first husband was this way. he called Sunday night while I was sleeping and phone was turned off. I told him the next day if he would like to talk it might be good for us both to clear the air. His response after all the loving texts...."If I get a break in my schedule today I will call you." I knew that wasn't going to happen. He is angry just like he was angry at his daughter and his sister. I AM DONE!!!!!!!!! This is a man who has to have control, has to have everything his way and on his terms and on his schedule. There is nothing mutual here. I was nothing more than a mere inconvenience. The conversation was good and I think the core of the man has a good side but I am moving on.


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## 3Xnocharm

AVR1962 said:


> Yes, it is. The true colors have come out. I saw as he blocked his daughter.....refused to talk to her because she married a man he disapproved of. he could say nothing nice about his daughter. He was the same with one of his sisters, could not say anything nice. Said he never liked her. He told me that all the ladies he dated before got on his nerves and he had to get away and as he said all of this I knew I would not be the exception. So I pull away because he is obviously not interested and as soon as I do he is all nice and loving, making contact.


Wow, so he really does have some serious issues! Reminds me a lot of my second husband, who ended up hating everyone. I am very glad you have seen the reality of who he is. Trying to stay in a relationship with him would have mentally exhausted you, and he would have ended up treating you like all the other women in his life before you. He needs to become a hermit like my ex did, leave people the hell alone.


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## Blondilocks

AVR1962 said:


> Thanks! *he is now texting me how much he loves me with kisses and hearts, saying I am the sweetest, kindest person, telling me to be careful as there's lots of men who will take advantage of my kind side *(as I felt he has). So I asked him if we could talk. His response, "*I thought you were moving on. If I get a break today I will call you." *Really? I do not understand men!


First bolded translation: I'm a prick and I know it but I want you to think I'm actually a good guy.

Second translation: Oops, I just tripped on my ****. Gotta get my silver tongue under control. I know - I'll just back out the door with some meaningless nonsense. Hopefully, she won't bother me any more.


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## AVR1962

blondilocks said:


> first bolded translation: I'm a prick and i know it but i want you to think i'm actually a good guy.
> 
> Second translation: Oops, i just tripped on my ****. Gotta get my silver tongue under control. I know - i'll just back out the door with some meaningless nonsense. Hopefully, she won't bother me any more.


exactly!!!!!!!


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## notmyjamie

Got my first taste of the downside of being a single, working mother trying to have her own social life. I just finished a long stretch of days at work. Friday night I went out with some friends after work and Sunday, also after work, I went out on a date. 

Friday night as it turns out, my daughter's boyfriend broke up with her. She didn't tell me. I found out from my other daughter today. When I asked why she didn't tell me she said, very sadly, "I kept trying to find you but you were never around and I didn't know where you were" :crying:

Basically told her that she should always just call or text me if she needs me...I'll drop whatever I'm doing for her. I know I'm allowed to have a social life but this girl is SO independent so to hear she needed me and couldn't find me is like a knife to my gut. 

Ugh. Just ugh.


----------



## Cynthia

notmyjamie said:


> Basically told her that she should always just call or text me if she needs me...I'll drop whatever I'm doing for her. I know I'm allowed to have a social life but this girl is SO independent so to hear she needed me and couldn't find me is like a knife to my gut.


I can certainly understand your sorrow, but it wasn't because you were busy. It's because your daughter was not proactive. Instead she sat around waiting for you to magically appear. The problem wasn't you being unavailable. The problem was that she didn't contact you.

This is a new dimension, but you will all get used to it and everything will function fine in a new way.

Hugs.


----------



## notmyjamie

CynthiaDe said:


> I can certainly understand your sorrow, but it wasn't because you were busy. It's because your daughter was not proactive. Instead she sat around waiting for you to magically appear. The problem wasn't you being unavailable. The problem was that she didn't contact you.
> 
> This is a new dimension, but you will all get used to it and everything will function fine in a new way.
> 
> Hugs.


That's very true. My kids are just used to me being around in the evenings. But it gets pretty lonely hanging out inside my apartment alone every night. And the friends that STBX and I shared seem to have decided he's the one they want to keep so I have been branching out and finding new companions. I'm liking it but this just made me feel sad. Not guilty, just sad. 

I guess I will have a talk with all three of my kids to make sure they know I might not always be home but to call or text me if they need something. All new territory for me and them. Being teenagers, I rarely see them as it is, but when they want you, they want you. It won't always be like this I'm sure.


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## 3Xnocharm

You probably want to give them a heads up when you are going to be out. Its just me and my 22yr old daughter in my house, and we ALWAYS know where the other is at all times. When she was younger I used to even let her know what I was doing, as much as I could, when she was at her dad's house. It was a security thing for her, there were a couple times she couldnt get ahold of me and completely wigged out.


----------



## notmyjamie

3Xnocharm said:


> You probably want to give them a heads up when you are going to be out. Its just me and my 22yr old daughter in my house, and we ALWAYS know where the other is at all times. When she was younger I used to even let her know what I was doing, as much as I could, when she was at her dad's house. It was a security thing for her, there were a couple times she couldnt get ahold of me and completely wigged out.




I do usually text the three of them to let them know but for some reason my texts to this particular daughter have not been going through lately. I'll be honest though, I'm not ready for them to know I'm starting to date. I just say I'm out with a friend, which is true I guess.


----------



## Lila

Any of the singles here find themselves as the perpetual "fun friend" but never viewed as potential significant other material to opposite sex members of their social groups?


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Any of the singles here find themselves as the perpetual "fun friend" but never viewed as potential significant other material to opposite sex members of their social groups?


Interesting. Yes, when I have been in social groups, although there were eligible people, I never dated them. Or should say was never asked out. It felt like somehow it was off limits, like the group connection was more important to them than any romantic connection would be. There were some who did have romantic couplings but they never worked out. 

I began to see the wisdom of not getting involved with any of them. I was never sure why though. Just almost seemed like there was bad luck attached to comingling within certain groups.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Interesting. Yes, when I have been in social groups, although there were eligible people, I never dated them. Or should say was never asked out. It felt like somehow it was off limits, like the group connection was more important to them than any romantic connection would be. There were some who did have romantic couplings but they never worked out.
> 
> I began to see the wisdom of not getting involved with any of them. I was never sure why though. Just almost seemed like there was bad luck attached to comingling within certain groups.


Did you have any interest in anyone you met through your social network?

In the last couple of weeks, I have been told by a couple of guys that they don't see me as SO material. One told me I'm like his little sister and the other calls me his mirror image (we are very alike). The funny thing is that although I do find these guys attractive, I'm not interested in dating them. But it's made me think that hoping to meet people to date while doing what I enjoy is not going to work either. 

Online dating didn't work and social groups haven't worked. I have the bar scene left.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Yes, when I have been in social groups, although there were eligible people, I never dated them. Or should say was never asked out. It felt like somehow it was off limits, like the group connection was more important to them than any romantic connection would be. There were some who did have romantic couplings but they never worked out.
> 
> I began to see the wisdom of not getting involved with any of them. I was never sure why though. Just almost seemed like there was bad luck attached to comingling within certain groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you have any interest in anyone you met through your social network?
> 
> In the last couple of weeks, I have been told by a couple of guys that they don't see me as SO material. One told me I'm like his little sister and the other calls me his mirror image (we are very alike). The funny thing is that although I do find these guys attractive, I'm not interested in dating them. But it's made me think that hoping to meet people to date while doing what I enjoy is not going to work either.
> 
> Online dating didn't work and social groups haven't worked. I have the bar scene left.
Click to expand...

That’s how it went for me too. Not really interested per se in any of them but was attracted. Always had the sibling vibe from all of them. It may be that when we enter social groups it is automatically kind of a familial vibe.

Also, I don’t see “going to Portland so FW
can hook me up with 100 hotties” on your list so the bar scene is not the only option left.


----------



## Faithful Wife

My update....

A year or so ago I went on a handful of dates with a guy I met on bumble. His nickname was The Rock, because his bod is literally like The Rock but he also has that sweet/cute personality like The Rock. He’s like a gentle giant in his normal outward personality. But is a special ops military security dude, so I know he’s also an extremely dangerous person in the name of his profession. 

Last year when we dated, I liked him a lot but he ended up getting sent out of town after those handful of dates and during that time I met my other boyfriend I had last summer (The Rock and I had not become exclusive yet or anything). The Rock was totally cool about it when I said I had met someone else but said to call him if I ever wanted to hang out.

I have texted him a few times over the year, just because I really liked him and would have even moved into a friendship with him. I also felt if he was seeing anyone, it just didn’t even register with me so I figured he and I must have already friend zoned each other because there was no sexual or romantic tension between us, it seemed. He did always text that we should hang out but I never got around to it.

I was bored and hopped back on bumble last week and saw his profile again...and was like, why don’t I just call or text him? I know we like each other and we just didn’t get a chance to take it further last time.

So I did that and he was excited to hear from me and immediately asked me out. The date was last night.

This is not my usual way of doing things, but I just invited him to my place. I wasn’t planning on just jumping in bed with him but knew it was likely. Honestly I was just so jazzed to have a man in MY place, something I’ve never been able to do because I’ve always lived with someone.

So he came over and we kissed and hugged and immediately felt so comfortable with him again. We caught up. We used the hot tub. Then we had some rocking good sex. In my bed in my own place! 

I knew it would be great already, but damn he’s so HOT. He’s actually even hotter than The Rock (and is not a shredded mess like a competition body builder. He’s just huge, 6’5” and built with little body fat, he’s also black and has incredible tattoos on his amazing arms, and such a cute face). I’ve mentioned elsewhere that I’m a short gal but I’ve got ice skaters thighs and it bugs me when I’m with a guy and my legs are bigger than his (because it makes me feel like I’m huge, but I’m not!) Well, one of this guy’s thighs are as big as my entire body. In fact, we are ridiculously mismatched in size and if I wasn’t also strong, it would be hard to make it work. When tab A is supposed to fit into slot B but the two are not close enough to each other if your faces are also close to each other...it takes some skills and consideration.

Anyway...I don’t necessarily want to say this is a boyfriend. I’m not positive if that’s where this is going. He’s great and we really like each other. I’m not sure if I feel anything deeper than fondness and affection for him. But that’s plenty for me at this time. Not sure how he is feeling, I’m sure I will find out. I know we will see each other again soon and will go from there.

Such a great night! I totally wish I had pictures of what he looked like naked in my bed. Yummmmm


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> Did you have any interest in anyone you met through your social network?
> 
> In the last couple of weeks, I have been told by a couple of guys that they don't see me as SO material. One told me I'm like his little sister and the other calls me his mirror image (we are very alike). The funny thing is that although I do find these guys attractive, I'm not interested in dating them. But it's made me think that hoping to meet people to hdate while doing what I enjoy is not going to work either.
> 
> Online dating didn't work and social groups haven't worked. I have the bar scene left.


Just my two cents..... Bar the bar scene. It is usually a crap shoot at best.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> That’s how it went for me too. Not really interested per se in any of them but was attracted. Always had the sibling vibe from all of them. It may be that when we enter social groups it is automatically kind of a familial vibe.
> 
> Also, I don’t see “going to Portland so FW
> can hook me up with 100 hotties” on your list so the bar scene is not the only option left.


Lol FW. I think a visit to Portland might be good for me, not necessarily for a hook up (I haven't provided an update but my FWB from all of late last year through early this year is back in the picture) but for girl time fun. 

My question was based on just an observation. I am the "social director" for many of my networks. I figure I could stay home and do nothing or I can organize get-togethers. It's amazing how many people want to get out but have to be encouraged to do so. I'm good at that and I enjoy socializing so win-win. 

On a separate note but related, I'm not a tee-totaler but I rarely drink alcohol. As such, I do not take anything anyone tells me while drinking seriously. I was told recently that I am too uptight because i wouldn't take a compliment from someone who was drinking seriously. WTF? That one pissed me off. It's called beer goggles for a reason.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Well the guy I met fizzled out. Dude is just too thin and his favorite word is “exhausted”. Uhhhh...no...just no. I also warned him that he was being far too nice and a lot of women in the OLD community would really take advantage of him. His response was that he didn’t care. Seriously? He doesn’t seem interested in being intimate even though he had opportunity right in his lap basically. Seems a repeat of XH so I guess my picker is still broke. 

Went dark on POF again and haven’t went back since meeting this guy. I don’t think I will feel comfortable dating until I land a new job anyway. 

BUT...very happy for yous guys that are having luck lately 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lila

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well the guy I met fizzled out. Dude is just too thin and his favorite word is “exhausted”. Uhhhh...no...just no. I also warned him that he was being far too nice and a lot of women in the OLD community would really take advantage of him. His response was that he didn’t care. Seriously? He doesn’t seem interested in being intimate even though he had opportunity right in his lap basically. Seems a repeat of XH so I guess my picker is still broke.
> 
> Went dark on POF again and haven’t went back since meeting this guy. I don’t think I will feel comfortable dating until I land a new job anyway.
> 
> BUT...very happy for yous guys that are having luck lately <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That sucks Elizabeth. How long did you two date?


----------



## Cynthia

Lila said:


> LI was told recently that I am too uptight because i wouldn't take a compliment from someone who was drinking seriously. WTF? That one pissed me off. It's called beer goggles for a reason.


What do you mean by "I wouldn't take a compliment"? What happened and what did you say?


----------



## notmyjamie

The last time I dated a guy from my friend group I married him, had three kids, and then found out he was gay. So probably not gonna go there again. LOL!!!!


----------



## Lila

CynthiaDe said:


> What do you mean by "I wouldn't take a compliment"? What happened and what did you say?


I didn't say i wouldn't take the compliment. I said I wouldn't take it seriously. He was drunk when he made it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Lol FW. I think a visit to Portland might be good for me, not necessarily for a hook up (I haven't provided an update but my FWB from all of late last year through early this year is back in the picture) but for girl time fun.
> 
> My question was based on just an observation. I am the "social director" for many of my networks. I figure I could stay home and do nothing or I can organize get-togethers. It's amazing how many people want to get out but have to be encouraged to do so. I'm good at that and I enjoy socializing so win-win.
> 
> On a separate note but related, I'm not a tee-totaler but I rarely drink alcohol. As such, I do not take anything anyone tells me while drinking seriously. I was told recently that I am too uptight because i wouldn't take a compliment from someone who was drinking seriously. WTF? That one pissed me off. It's called beer goggles for a reason.


Wow, I don’t know who said that to you, but screw them. Geez.

I’ve been present with female friends who were drunk and hitting on a dude, only to talk to them the next day and find out that they either don’t even remember it, or that they were disgusted at themselves because they were not actually attracted to him at all. 

Of course it’s not good to believe what drunk people say. Sheesh.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well the guy I met fizzled out. Dude is just too thin and his favorite word is “exhausted”. Uhhhh...no...just no. I also warned him that he was being far too nice and a lot of women in the OLD community would really take advantage of him. His response was that he didn’t care. Seriously? He doesn’t seem interested in being intimate even though he had opportunity right in his lap basically. Seems a repeat of XH so I guess my picker is still broke.
> 
> Went dark on POF again and haven’t went back since meeting this guy. I don’t think I will feel comfortable dating until I land a new job anyway.
> 
> BUT...very happy for yous guys that are having luck lately
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It seems like you said something about him lacking energy from the get go. Is that the same guy?

Good on you for just moving on instead of trying to make it work. 

When you are ready to try again, try bumble!


----------



## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> That sucks Elizabeth. How long did you two date?




We were just a couple of dates in so no biggs. I hadn’t been dating at all and now this.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReformedHubby

Lila said:


> I was told recently that I am too uptight because i wouldn't take a compliment from someone who was drinking seriously. WTF? That one pissed me off. It's called beer goggles for a reason.


It should have pissed you off. Based on my experience its really weird and passive aggressive when men expect a woman to act like their compliment is the best thing they ever heard. It shows who they really are. How does one shift in an instant, from "You look good tonight". To being offended that their compliment wasn't treated as super special :scratchhead:? The bottom line is they expected to get much further with the compliment, and honestly some guys do compliment in a weird way, that is very off putting, creepy even. I have seen men do ridiculously passive aggressive things, that honestly make me say WTF. A female employee was asked out by a guy she wasn't interested in, she declined. The guy proceeds to go out to eat alone and texts her pics of all this sushi he ordered. As if she was supposed to feel bad about it. We actually all sat around and laughed at his messages. People who try to guilt you into feeling a certain way simply aren't worth your time. They should respect your feelings. Just the thoughts of an old man...


----------



## Andy1001

ReformedHubby said:


> It should have pissed you off. Based on my experience its really weird and passive aggressive when men expect a woman to act like their compliment is the best thing they ever heard. It shows who they really are. How does one shift in an instant, from "You look good tonight". To being offended that their compliment wasn't treated as super special :scratchhead:? The bottom line is they expected to get much further with the compliment, and honestly some guys do compliment in a weird way, that is very off putting, creepy even.


“ For a fat girl you don’t sweat much”
This has to be the best compliment ever:surprise:


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> “ For a fat girl you don’t sweat much”
> This has to be the best compliment ever:surprise:


On the level of Napoleon Dynamite.>


----------



## ReformedHubby

Andy1001 said:


> “ For a fat girl you don’t sweat much”
> This has to be the best compliment ever:surprise:


LoL, we live in a very non PC world, but yet...I still find that line hilarious, thank you for the levity.


----------



## ConanHub

ReformedHubby said:


> LoL, we live in a very non PC world, but yet...I still find that line hilarious, thank you for the levity.


How is life treating you?


----------



## Blondilocks

Andy1001 said:


> “ For a fat girl you don’t sweat much”
> This has to be the best compliment ever:surprise:


My husband (then boyfriend) pulled that line on me when we were first dating back in the dark ages (c1967-68). Let's just say he got an ear bleed by the time I was through. And, no, I wasn't fat at 5'4" and 105 lbs.

The only thing I can figure out is people who think this is funny must be fans of the Three Stooges. It's just a stupid thing to say to anyone.


----------



## ReformedHubby

ConanHub said:


> How is life treating you?


Actually...pretty darn good. Looking back I think I struggled a lot after my marriage because of guilt. I found it hard to be happy, because I honestly didn't feel like I deserved it, after three years I think I am finally in a good place. There is someone in my life now, we had dated previously, but honestly even though I was a lot of fun as a boyfriend, I wasn't exactly someone you wanted to bank your future on or commit to. In retrospect I never really gave her a fair shot, so we have rekindled things, and we'll see how it goes, but so far, so good. So much of who you are in a relationship varies greatly depending on the head space you're in.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Blondilocks said:


> The only thing I can figure out is people who think this is funny must be fans of the Three Stooges. It's just a stupid thing to say to anyone.


I think most men still have that inner twelve year old boy in them somewhere. I also don't think most would admit they find this funny, and I agree its offensive in many ways....but...that twelve year old boy in me doesn't care. He likes fart jokes and a lot of other non PC stuff too. I would never say that line...but yet...still find it funny.


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> My husband (then boyfriend) pulled that line on me when we were first dating back in the dark ages (c1967-68). Let's just say he got an ear bleed by the time I was through. And, no, I wasn't fat at 5'4" and 105 lbs.
> 
> The only thing I can figure out is people who think this is funny must be fans of the Three Stooges. It's just a stupid thing to say to anyone.


It ranks pretty close to small penis comments for men.

Mood killing much?>


----------



## Andy1001

ConanHub said:


> It ranks pretty close to small penis comments for men.
> 
> Mood killing much?>


You know you have a small penis if you run into a wall while having an erection and break your nose. :rofl::banghead:


----------



## Andy1001

Blondilocks said:


> My husband (then boyfriend) pulled that line on me when we were first dating back in the dark ages (c1967-68). Let's just say he got an ear bleed by the time I was through. And, no, I wasn't fat at 5'4" and 105 lbs.
> 
> The only thing I can figure out is people who think this is funny must be fans of the Three Stooges. It's just a stupid thing to say to anyone.


I’ve just remembered I told this silly joke before and you commented on it similarly to today. 
Do you remember what I told you lol.🤔


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> You know you have a small penis if you run into a wall while having an erection and break your nose. :rofl::banghead:


Nope. Just means my nose is AMAZING!:grin2:

Cyrano de Bergerac has nothing on me!:wink2:


----------



## In Absentia

Not looking forward to this dating mystery world... :laugh:


----------



## Blondilocks

Andy1001 said:


> I’ve just remembered I told this silly joke before and you commented on it similarly to today.
> *Do you remember what I told you lol.🤔*




Nope. Then again, I don't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. Refresh my memory, please.


----------



## Andy1001

Blondilocks said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve just remembered I told this silly joke before and you commented on it similarly to today.
> *Do you remember what I told you lol.🤔*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Then again, I don't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. Refresh my memory, please.
Click to expand...

I told you that for such an old person you have a good memory. 
😜


----------



## Faithful Wife

In Absentia said:


> Not looking forward to this dating mystery world... :laugh:


Stick with us, we will help you navigate.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Sideways compliments...

When I met my first husband, I think the first verbal compliment he ever gave me was “your eyelashes are so long...like a cow.”

We both burst out laughing as soon as he said it, and I was like “what, like a cow?” And he was immediately saying through his laughter “I don’t even know where that came from”.


----------



## Andy1001

Faithful Wife said:


> Sideways compliments...
> 
> When I met my first husband, I think the first verbal compliment he ever gave me was “your eyelashes are so long...like a cow.”
> 
> We both burst out laughing as soon as he said it, and I was like “what, like a cow?” And he was immediately saying through his laughter “I don’t even know where that came from”.


Were you deeply mooooved.


----------



## Blondilocks

Andy1001 said:


> I told you that for such an old person you have a good memory.
> 😜


LOL. I'll have to try to remember to get you for that, my pretty one.>


----------



## Not

I’m still seeing new guy. It’s been a month and things are still going very well. I just got home from spending Friday and Saturday night at his place, I had a blast! I’m not a big drinker but I let my hair down last night and discovered I’m a very happy drunk lol! 

We always have music playing, usually stuff from the 70’s on up to current so there are always songs coming on that bring back memories for everybody. Well, every time a song came on that was an obvious emotional trigger for lots of us in our age range I’d start lecturing everybody about not getting sad or dragged down and how they better not start telling the sad stories these songs bring to mind lol! So then every time one of these songs would come on we’d all stop and look at each other to do a sad check and there’d be at least one sad drunk face every time and we’d all bust out laughing lol! It was a hoot!

I discovered I have a love for Sambuca and have no problem knocking those shots down lol! Man that stuff is like liquid candy, delicious! 

New guy is still a total gentleman slash fun guy with no filter and a zest for life that other guys I dated had seemed to have lost somewhere along the way. They all seemed old in mind and spirit. He’s got a great attitude. He went old school on Monday and asked me to be his girlfriend, so I gotz me a man and a good one at that!


----------



## Lila

ReformedHubby said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was told recently that I am too uptight because i wouldn't take a compliment from someone who was drinking seriously. WTF? That one pissed me off. It's called beer goggles for a reason.
> 
> 
> 
> It should have pissed you off. Based on my experience its really weird and passive aggressive when men expect a woman to act like their compliment is the best thing they ever heard. It shows who they really are. How does one shift in an instant, from "You look good tonight". To being offended that their compliment wasn't treated as super special <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/scratchhead.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Scratchhead" ></a>? The bottom line is they expected to get much further with the compliment, and honestly some guys do compliment in a weird way, that is very off putting, creepy even. I have seen men do ridiculously passive aggressive things, that honestly make me say WTF. A female employee was asked out by a guy she wasn't interested in, she declined. The guy proceeds to go out to eat alone and texts her pics of all this sushi he ordered. As if she was supposed to feel bad about it. We actually all sat around and laughed at his messages. People who try to guilt you into feeling a certain way simply aren't worth your time. They should respect your feelings. Just the thoughts of an old man...
Click to expand...

Okay, I am going to defend the guy a little...he wasn't the one that suggested I should be flattered by his compliment. It was someone else in the group. My response was to tell him to call me tomorrow if he remembered the compliment. Haven't heard from him, lol. 

So no, not taking anything a person under the influence says to me.


----------



## Lila

Not said:


> I’m still seeing new guy. It’s been a month and things are still going very well. I just got home from spending Friday and Saturday night at his place, I had a blast! I’m not a big drinker but I let my hair down last night and discovered I’m a very happy drunk lol!
> 
> We always have music playing, usually stuff from the 70’s on up to current so there are always songs coming on that bring back memories for everybody. Well, every time a song came on that was an obvious emotional trigger for lots of us in our age range I’d start lecturing everybody about not getting sad or dragged down and how they better not start telling the sad stories these songs bring to mind lol! So then every time one of these songs would come on we’d all stop and look at each other to do a sad check and there’d be at least one sad drunk face every time and we’d all bust out laughing lol! It was a hoot!
> 
> I discovered I have a love for Sambuca and have no problem knocking those shots down lol! Man that stuff is like liquid candy, delicious!
> 
> New guy is still a total gentleman slash fun guy with no filter and a zest for life that other guys I dated had seemed to have lost somewhere along the way. They all seemed old in mind and spirit. He’s got a great attitude. He went old school on Monday and asked me to be his girlfriend, so I gotz me a man and a good one at that!


He asked you to be his girlfriend?! That's awesome. So glad to hear some good news on this thread.


----------



## Not

Lila said:


> He asked you to be his girlfriend?! That's awesome. So glad to hear some good news on this thread.


He sure did!

On a side note we spent yesterday afternoon with his brother and his girlfriend of two years. She’s awesome. At one point new guy took a sip of her wine and she asked him if he’d care to know where her lips had been that morning and his brother burst out laughing lol! They were kidding but both have a wicked sense of humor! So I have this great new boyfriend and two potential very good very down to earth and funny new friends. Life is good.


----------



## Blondilocks

Not said:


> He sure did!
> 
> On a side note we spent yesterday afternoon with his brother and his girlfriend of two years. She’s awesome. At one point new guy took a sip of her wine and she asked him if he’d care to know where her lips had been that morning and his brother burst out laughing lol! They were kidding but both have a wicked sense of humor! So I have this great new boyfriend and two potential very good very down to earth and funny new friends. Life is good.


You gotz you a man. So happy for you.:smile2:


----------



## notmyjamie

Speaking of horrible compliments...I once overheard a guy telling the clerk in CVS that "you're not one of those unattractive redheads, you're like actually attractive" like he was shocked she was pretty. The worst part is that his girlfriend was standing next to him the entire time. The clerk just said "Um..ok, that will $10.95" 

And good for you @Not, glad things are going so well.


----------



## ConanHub

notmyjamie said:


> Speaking of horrible compliments...I once overheard a guy telling the clerk in CVS that "you're not one of those unattractive redheads, you're like actually attractive" like he was shocked she was pretty. The worst part is that his girlfriend was standing next to him the entire time. The clerk just said "Um..ok, that will $10.95"
> 
> And good for you @Not, glad things are going so well.


He must have had stupid tattooed on his forehead and do not reproduce with me under his belly button!

I would have looked at the girlfriend and said "Nice chimp? What zoo did you rescue him from?">


----------



## 2&out

I'm considering doing something life altering. Been horizontal bopping the same beotch for almost 4 years. She's pretty sweet. We seem to jive well. Maybe she should move in if she wants ?? Arg... I don't know... I really like living by myself - like REALLY like it. I don't get the lonely - never have had any issue or wants living alone. But she is getting antsy - wondering if there is more and are we going to last. I feel it. Rather not lose her but this is as far as I go. No wedding bells in my future. She knows that. Will this be enough ? Her lease is coming due. Seems like only one way to find out. I want to... but I also don't want to.

Why can't things just stay status quo ? Why does it seem like there has to be more ? Why change what we have ? I'm totally happy now ! Going on a 17 day vacation together this coming weekend. Will wait towards end and if all is well guess I will bring up. In many ways it feels/seems like it could be great. Why does it also feel like I'm losing part of my life ? Crap - I want my cake and to eat it also !


----------



## 3Xnocharm

@2&out, the idea of moving someone in with you who you are not in love with is absurd. She is your F-buddy. If she wants more, dont be a selfish ass, and let her go so she can find someone who will love her.


----------



## 2&out

What do you mean by let her go ? I'm not "holding" her or in any sort of "possession" of her. I'm pretty surprised she's stuck around with me so long. In my defense I think I treat her pretty well and think it is unlikely anyone else will better. I think I am there for her when she needs or wants. I think I do love her - it is one of the things I am struggling some with. What is enough ?? 

I've followed/read most of Lila's posts. I think she is right/correct about some things like the "deep emotional connection" stuff. It isn't likely. I'm not sure I'm capable of it anymore. I'm now in my mid/late 50's. I have no desire for that "can't live without you" fairy tale stuff. If even possible it's too hard to achieve - a lot of work - that frankly I have little desire to do. IMHO it is not worth all the work/paying attention/others needs first/ blah,blah,blah. The reward is elusive, fleeting, and IMHO on/off/on/off - temporary. I know other guys my age that feel the same. Lets have fun and enjoy life together. It's all I need/want. I'm over even wanting that movie dream romance soul mate stuff/lie. 

if what I can offer is not enough for her she is free to go. Always has been.


----------



## Blondilocks

2&out said:


> I'm considering doing something life altering. *Been horizontal bopping the same beotch for almost 4 years. *She's pretty sweet. We seem to jive well. Maybe she should move in if she wants ?? Arg... I don't know... I really like living by myself - like REALLY like it. I don't get the lonely - never have had any issue or wants living alone. But she is getting antsy - wondering if there is more and are we going to last. I feel it. Rather not lose her but this is as far as I go. No wedding bells in my future. She knows that. Will this be enough ? Her lease is coming due. Seems like only one way to find out. I want to... but I also don't want to.
> 
> Why can't things just stay status quo ? Why does it seem like there has to be more ? Why change what we have ? I'm totally happy now ! Going on a 17 day vacation together this coming weekend. Will wait towards end and if all is well guess I will bring up. In many ways it feels/seems like it could be great. Why does it also feel like I'm losing part of my life ? Crap - I want my cake and to eat it also !


Well, okey dokey. Maybe she feels that horizontal bopping of the same bastard for 4 years is long enough. If it isn't leading to anything, she'll just take her fine ass elsewhere.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

2&out said:


> What do you mean by let her go ? I'm not "holding" her or in any sort of "possession" of her. I'm pretty surprised she's stuck around with me so long. In my defense I think I treat her pretty well and think it is unlikely anyone else will better. I think I am there for her when she needs or wants. I think I do love her - it is one of the things I am struggling some with. What is enough ??
> 
> I've followed/read most of Lila's posts. I think she is right/correct about some things like the "deep emotional connection" stuff. It isn't likely. I'm not sure I'm capable of it anymore. I'm now in my mid/late 50's. I have no desire for that "can't live without you" fairy tale stuff. If even possible it's too hard to achieve - a lot of work - that frankly I have little desire to do. IMHO it is not worth all the work/paying attention/others needs first/ blah,blah,blah. The reward is elusive, fleeting, and IMHO on/off/on/off - temporary. I know other guys my age that feel the same. Lets have fun and enjoy life together. It's all I need/want. I'm over even wanting that movie dream romance soul mate stuff/lie.
> 
> if what I can offer is not enough for her she is free to go. Always has been.


The problem I can see with this is that she may have a much deeper emotional connection to you than you realize, and if you open to it and allow the two of you to cohabitate, she might take you up on that offer even if she knows your feelings are not as deep. She may do that hoping that you eventually come around. And while the decision is hers to make, I can tell you first hand that we dont always do what is best for ourselves when we are listening to our (stupid) hearts. So if she lets you know that she has these feelings and wants something deeper, the compassionate thing for you to do is to not allow things to go further than they have.


----------



## 2&out

LOL - yea - probably could have used some softer sweeter language - LOL. What do you mean isn't leading to anything ? Is marriage the only acceptable goal to women ? Really ? I find that sad. She does have a fine ass  I've thought for a long time she'd take it elsewhere. But so far she hasn't.


----------



## Andy1001

2&out said:


> LOL - yea - probably could have used some softer sweeter language - LOL. What do you mean isn't leading to anything ? Is marriage the only acceptable goal to women ? Really ? I find that sad. She does have a fine ass  I've thought for a long time she'd take it elsewhere. But so far she hasn't.


You are such a smooth talker I can’t believe that you haven’t been snatched up.


----------



## notmyjamie

2&out said:


> LOL - yea - probably could have used some softer sweeter language - LOL. What do you mean isn't leading to anything ? Is marriage the only acceptable goal to women ? Really ? I find that sad. She does have a fine ass  I've thought for a long time she'd take it elsewhere. But so far she hasn't.


She is probably hoping it will lead to some type of lasting commitment that you wouldn't describe as "Been horizontal bopping the same beotch for almost 4 years." Now, I am the last person anyone would accuse of being a romantic. I don't buy into any of that soul mate, love at first sight, can't live without you stuff. But if a guy I was dating referred to me in this way and it wasn't just a joke, I'd be long gone. She wants to know you love her, value her in your life, want to make a commitment to her, and respect her. It doesn't sound like you respect her or love her very much. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## FeministInPink

2&out said:


> LOL - yea - probably could have used some softer sweeter language - LOL. What do you mean isn't leading to anything ? Is marriage the only acceptable goal to women ? Really ? I find that sad. She does have a fine ass  I've thought for a long time she'd take it elsewhere. But so far she hasn't.


It's not about softer, sweeter language. It's about respect. 

And the language you use to describe her is intensely disrespectful, not just to her, but to all women. She's clearly not a person to you, she's just a warm, moist place to stick your ****.

You clearly don't see this going anywhere or making a commitment to her, you just don't want to cut off your steady supply of *****.

Don't ask this woman to move in with you. Asking her to move in sends the message that you DO want more, and moving in together implies that your relationship is moving towards something more, and you clearly have no intention of that. So if you can't respect the fact that she is an actual human being with feelings and a life of her own--which you are impacting by keeping her around for the "fine ass"--have the decency to not lead her on about where this relationship is going.

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## FeministInPink

notmyjamie said:


> She is probably hoping it will lead to some type of lasting commitment that you wouldn't describe as "Been horizontal bopping the same beotch for almost 4 years." Now, I am the last person anyone would accuse of being a romantic. I don't buy into any of that soul mate, love at first sight, can't live without you stuff. But if a guy I was dating referred to me in this way and it wasn't just a joke, I'd be long gone. She wants to know you love her, value her in your life, want to make a commitment to her, and respect her. It doesn't sound like you respect her or love her very much. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.


Hit the nail on the head. If she knew you were referring to her this way, she would be out the door.

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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> The problem I can see with this is that she may have a much deeper emotional connection to you than you realize, and if you open to it and allow the two of you to cohabitate, she might take you up on that offer even if she knows your feelings are not as deep. She may do that hoping that you eventually come around. And while the decision is hers to make, I can tell you first hand that we dont always do what is best for ourselves when we are listening to our (stupid) hearts. So if she lets you know that she has these feelings and wants something deeper, the compassionate thing for you to do is to not allow things to go further than they have.


Based on previous posts by @2&out here and on other threads, I doubt that he is capable of that minimal level of empathy and compassion.

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## 2&out

Yea - I used a poor choice of words in that beginning. I do respect her very much. One of the things about internet posting is it is able to be interpreted many different ways. I have been honest with her from day 1. I care about her a lot and am pretty sure she knows that. One thing that I think is a considerable difference than many/most single thread posters is that finding a life partner is not a priority in my life. I've had my kids, made my career. I'm maybe overly happy and comfortable with myself. I totally do not care if I "die by myself". I've asked my kids to throw me in the ocean to be fish food and have a party.

I am kind to her and nice to her. One of the things she says she likes about me is I hardly ever get upset or angry. I'm stable. I'm probably worrying about nothing. She's chosen to hang with me this long, maybe she will forever. Personally I think (and I bet a bunch here will agree  ) she can do better than me. But I'm not so bad...


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## Blondilocks

2&out said:


> Yea - I used a poor choice of words in that beginning. I do respect her very much. One of the things about internet posting is it is able to be interpreted many different ways. I have been honest with her from day 1. I care about her a lot and am pretty sure she knows that. One thing that I think is a considerable difference than many/most single thread posters is that finding a life partner is not a priority in my life. I've had my kids, made my career. I'm maybe overly happy and comfortable with myself. I totally do not care if I "die by myself". I've asked my kids to throw me in the ocean to be fish food and have a party.
> 
> I am kind to her and nice to her. One of the things she says she likes about me is I hardly ever get upset or angry. I'm stable. I'm probably worrying about nothing. She's chosen to hang with me this long, maybe she will forever. Personally I think (and I bet a bunch here will agree  ) she can do better than me. But I'm not so bad...


It would be wise to remember that it's hard to be hip when you're wearing orthopedic shoes.:grin2:


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## 3Xnocharm

Ok, Singles hive mind, help a sister out. 

So as everyone knows, I ended things with the now XBF earlier this month. I thought we left things decently, then he flipped out on me a few days later, blocking me on FB, some angry texts, etc. Now he is over the angry phase, and realized and admitted his mistakes in our relationship. The problem is now he is realizing what he lost and now is essentially love bombing me, begging for a chance to show me that he really does love me and to prove that he can be what I need. He has ramped up looking for a "real" job, and is even trying to quit smoking. He keeps calling me beautiful, and his love. He wants us to spend time together as friends so that he can show me. I mean he is really going over the top with all the messaging, etc.

So my issue is this. It doesnt feel sincere to me. And that makes me feel like a real B, because who the hell am I to say what he does or doesnt feel? But it just doesnt. I went all this time with ZERO compliments from him, almost no I love you's, no sex, no emotion from him for us to make a real emotional connection, non participation when I would make attempts to draw him out and talk about it. And NOW I am supposed to believe that he felt all of this all this time but just chose to keep in inside and sit on it?? WHY would anyone do that?? I mean we are talking YEARS, here. He is rewriting our history, making it sound like he always had these feelings, but I WAS THERE, and he DIDNT. He may have had some feelings growing toward the end, but all those years we spent time together, he did NOT have the same feelings that I did. I think his effort toward the end was him picking up on the fact that I was on my way out. 

When I broke things off, I had wanted us to remain friends, and I honestly thought that it would not be a big deal, because our entire relationship was really just a friendship anyway. So I thought it would be an easy transition for him. (and me) But now that all this has come out, I just dont know how to handle it, and how are we supposed to do that when he has these feelings?? This is what I always wanted from him! It took a lot of time and a lot out of me to end this, and I was ready to move forward. Now, I feel like I am obligated to give it another chance since he is openly offering what I always wanted. I want us to be able to be at the same places and be able to be civil and talk or whatever. I'm frustrated. I dont know what to do. I dont want to hurt him again. I just dont know if I want to do this again. I feel damned either way.


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## bkyln309

3Xnocharm said:


> Ok, Singles hive mind, help a sister out.
> 
> So as everyone knows, I ended things with the now XBF earlier this month. I thought we left things decently, then he flipped out on me a few days later, blocking me on FB, some angry texts, etc. Now he is over the angry phase, and realized and admitted his mistakes in our relationship. The problem is now he is realizing what he lost and now is essentially love bombing me, begging for a chance to show me that he really does love me and to prove that he can be what I need. He has ramped up looking for a "real" job, and is even trying to quit smoking. He keeps calling me beautiful, and his love. He wants us to spend time together as friends so that he can show me. I mean he is really going over the top with all the messaging, etc.
> 
> So my issue is this. It doesnt feel sincere to me. And that makes me feel like a real B, because who the hell am I to say what he does or doesnt feel? But it just doesnt. I went all this time with ZERO compliments from him, almost no I love you's, no sex, no emotion from him for us to make a real emotional connection, non participation when I would make attempts to draw him out and talk about it. And NOW I am supposed to believe that he felt all of this all this time but just chose to keep in inside and it on it?? WHY would anyone do that?? I mean we are talking YEARS, here. He is rewriting our history, making it sound like he always had these feelings, but I WAS THERE, and he DIDNT. He may have had some feelings growing toward the end, but all those years we spent time together, he did NOT have the same feelings that I did. I think his effort toward the end was him picking up on the fact that I was on my way out.
> 
> When I broke things off, I had wanted us to remain friends, and I honestly thought that it would not be a big deal, because our entire relationship was really just a friendship anyway. So I thought it would be an easy transition for him. (and me) But now that all this has come out, I just dont know how to handle it, and how are we supposed to do that when he has these feelings?? This is what I always wanted from him! It took a lot of time and a lot out of me to end this, and I was ready to move forward. Now, I feel like I am obligated to give it another chance since he is openly offering what I always wanted. I want us to be able to be at the same places and be able to be civil and talk or whatever. I'm frustrated. I dont know what to do. I dont want to hurt him again. I just dont know if I want to do this again. I feel damned either way.


Just block him and go full No Contact. its too late. Dont believe the facade.


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## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> Ok, Singles hive mind, help a sister out.
> 
> So as everyone knows, I ended things with the now XBF earlier this month. I thought we left things decently, then he flipped out on me a few days later, blocking me on FB, some angry texts, etc. Now he is over the angry phase, and realized and admitted his mistakes in our relationship. The problem is now he is realizing what he lost and now is essentially love bombing me, begging for a chance to show me that he really does love me and to prove that he can be what I need. He has ramped up looking for a "real" job, and is even trying to quit smoking. He keeps calling me beautiful, and his love. He wants us to spend time together as friends so that he can show me. I mean he is really going over the top with all the messaging, etc.
> 
> So my issue is this. It doesnt feel sincere to me. And that makes me feel like a real B, because who the hell am I to say what he does or doesnt feel? But it just doesnt. I went all this time with ZERO compliments from him, almost no I love you's, no sex, no emotion from him for us to make a real emotional connection, non participation when I would make attempts to draw him out and talk about it. And NOW I am supposed to believe that he felt all of this all this time but just chose to keep in inside and it on it?? WHY would anyone do that?? I mean we are talking YEARS, here. He is rewriting our history, making it sound like he always had these feelings, but I WAS THERE, and he DIDNT. He may have had some feelings growing toward the end, but all those years we spent time together, he did NOT have the same feelings that I did. I think his effort toward the end was him picking up on the fact that I was on my way out.
> 
> When I broke things off, I had wanted us to remain friends, and I honestly thought that it would not be a big deal, because our entire relationship was really just a friendship anyway. So I thought it would be an easy transition for him. (and me) But now that all this has come out, I just dont know how to handle it, and how are we supposed to do that when he has these feelings?? This is what I always wanted from him! It took a lot of time and a lot out of me to end this, and I was ready to move forward. Now, I feel like I am obligated to give it another chance since he is openly offering what I always wanted. I want us to be able to be at the same places and be able to be civil and talk or whatever. I'm frustrated. I dont know what to do. I dont want to hurt him again. I just dont know if I want to do this again. I feel damned either way.


I’m sorry sister, you need to go no contact with him so he can’t drag you into this pit.

That’s it. There is no reason to consider anything he is saying. When he gets over it and stops acting like this, maybe you can be his friend. But since he is acting this way he does not deserve to even speak to you.

This is not a drill honey. What you do right now will either help you move on, or trap you for several more years into this.

Don’t look back. Go no contact.


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## In Absentia

3Xnocharm said:


> I dont know what to do.


Run... he's clearly a psycho... :laugh:


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## 3Xnocharm

Man, going no contact just sounds really harsh to me...


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## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> Man, going no contact just sounds really harsh to me...


He is manipulating you.

Sure he might have had a change of heart finally. But this is not how that would look.

What he’s going through now probably has little to do with you. He just doesn’t like facing this particular failure of his.

You should only speak to him if he acts like an actual friend to you, and what you are describing is him trying to make you absorb his feelings of failure.


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## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> He is manipulating you.
> 
> Sure he might have had a change of heart finally. But this is not how that would look.
> 
> *What he’s going through now probably has little to do with you. He just doesn’t like facing this particular failure of his.*
> 
> You should only speak to him if he acts like an actual friend to you, and what you are describing is him trying to make you absorb his feelings of failure.


This makes a lot of sense.


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## In Absentia

3Xnocharm said:


> I went all this time with ZERO compliments from him, almost no I love you's, no sex, no emotion from him for us to make a real emotional connection, non participation when I would make attempts to draw him out and talk about it.


What more do you need? He is behaving in a very childish way. Not good in the long term. I think blocking him _is_ a bit harsh... just don't answer. He will get the message.


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## wilson

3Xnocharm said:


> Now he is over the angry phase, and realized and admitted his mistakes in our relationship. The problem is now he is realizing what he lost and now is essentially love bombing me, begging for a chance to show me that he really does love me and to prove that he can be what I need.


You are a long-time member on TAM and always have excellent advice to give. What would you tell someone who came here with this same situation?


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## In Absentia

wilson said:


> You are a long-time member on TAM and always have excellent advice to give. What would you tell someone who came here with this same situation?


Excellent question!


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## 3Xnocharm

wilson said:


> You are a long-time member on TAM and always have excellent advice to give. What would you tell someone who came here with this same situation?


Thank you, wilson. 

Sigh. I was afraid I would get this question, lol...* I would advise that if you know you are done, then you dont let them rope you into trying again. *I think part of my issue may be that I never had that moment of DONE clarity like I have in the past, that switch that flips and your feelings are gone. This has been more like a slow realization that this just wasnt going to work out for the long haul. That I deserved better, more. I guess the hope of friendship has been selfish on my part... when someone has been your constant for almost five years, it isnt easy to see how you go about doing things without them there. (well, my constant when it came to things like going out, and holidays... we really didnt spend hardly any time together otherwise, which was a big part of the issues)


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## uhtred

Not a single here, but I'll weigh in anyway. 

You don't own him anything at all. It is almost certain he is saying these things to get you back, but hasn't really changed. But - even in the incredibly unlikely event he means them - you STILL don't owe him anything.

He had plenty of time to be a good person when you were together. It it wasn't worth it to him then, why is it now????


Find someone who makes you happy. If your XBF really does turn his life around, then great - he will find someone who appreciates him and be happy too. Seems extremely improbable to me.


BTW - I tend to view relationships as sort of simple: Does your partner make you happy?? That is the key question. 





3Xnocharm said:


> Ok, Singles hive mind, help a sister out.
> 
> So as everyone knows, I ended things with the now XBF earlier this month. I thought we left things decently, then he flipped out on me a few days later, blocking me on FB, some angry texts, etc. Now he is over the angry phase, and realized and admitted his mistakes in our relationship. The problem is now he is realizing what he lost and now is essentially love bombing me, begging for a chance to show me that he really does love me and to prove that he can be what I need. He has ramped up looking for a "real" job, and is even trying to quit smoking. He keeps calling me beautiful, and his love. He wants us to spend time together as friends so that he can show me. I mean he is really going over the top with all the messaging, etc.
> 
> So my issue is this. It doesnt feel sincere to me. And that makes me feel like a real B, because who the hell am I to say what he does or doesnt feel? But it just doesnt. I went all this time with ZERO compliments from him, almost no I love you's, no sex, no emotion from him for us to make a real emotional connection, non participation when I would make attempts to draw him out and talk about it. And NOW I am supposed to believe that he felt all of this all this time but just chose to keep in inside and sit on it?? WHY would anyone do that?? I mean we are talking YEARS, here. He is rewriting our history, making it sound like he always had these feelings, but I WAS THERE, and he DIDNT. He may have had some feelings growing toward the end, but all those years we spent time together, he did NOT have the same feelings that I did. I think his effort toward the end was him picking up on the fact that I was on my way out.
> 
> When I broke things off, I had wanted us to remain friends, and I honestly thought that it would not be a big deal, because our entire relationship was really just a friendship anyway. So I thought it would be an easy transition for him. (and me) But now that all this has come out, I just dont know how to handle it, and how are we supposed to do that when he has these feelings?? This is what I always wanted from him! It took a lot of time and a lot out of me to end this, and I was ready to move forward. Now, I feel like I am obligated to give it another chance since he is openly offering what I always wanted. I want us to be able to be at the same places and be able to be civil and talk or whatever. I'm frustrated. I dont know what to do. I dont want to hurt him again. I just dont know if I want to do this again. I feel damned either way.


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## 3Xnocharm

uhtred said:


> *He had plenty of time to be a good person when you were together. It it wasn't worth it to him then, why is it now????
> *


This has been prevalent in my thought process about all this. Almost FIVE YEARS. 

I have owned up to my part about setting myself up to be taken for granted, I stuck around despite no reciprocation for a very long time. Doesnt reflect very well on me.


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## Openminded

3X, you're thinking with your heart and not your head. You've been off/on with him for too many years and it's never really worked. He had numerous opportunities to fix this. If you take him back you'll be in this situation again at some point because permanent change after years of having things his way will be hard-to-impossible. Why is he doing this now? Because he was comfortable wth his life and you changed that. 

Do yourself a favor and stop talking/texting and just move on.


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## uhtred

It does not reflect badly on you, just on him. But now you've given him far more than a reasonable chance. 



3Xnocharm said:


> This has been prevalent in my thought process about all this. Almost FIVE YEARS.
> 
> I have owned up to my part about setting myself up to be taken for granted, I stuck around despite no reciprocation for a very long time. Doesnt reflect very well on me.


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## wilson

3Xnocharm said:


> * I would advise that if you know you are done, then you dont let them rope you into trying again. *I think part of my issue may be that I never had that moment of DONE clarity like I have in the past, that switch that flips and your feelings are gone. This has been more like a slow realization that this just wasnt going to work out for the long haul. That I deserved better, more. I guess the hope of friendship has been selfish on my part... when someone has been your constant for almost five years, it isnt easy to see how you go about doing things without them there.


Yeah, it looks like you're dealing with the conflict between your intellectual and emotional sides. After a while, a romantic relationship can start to feel like a familial relationship. They are hard to cut off for the same reasons it's hard to cut a relative out of your life. They occupy some part of your personal identity and you don't feel whole if they aren't a part of your life. 

Who knows what the future holds, but certainly right now both of you are in too much of an emotional state to make good decisions. You guys need to go no-contact for a while just to let things settle down. Date other people. See what life is like without each other. Maybe he'll use the time to learn about himself and become a better person, or maybe he won't change at all. I suspect that you'll both feel very differently after a few months apart.


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## Affaircare

@3Xnocharm, 

I'm also no longer a single, but just for one month so I want to comment, if you don't mind. 

My exH used to do this to me every so often--he'd cheat, I'd catch him, he'd swear up one side and down the other that he had CHANGED, he'd act somewhat different for a little while, and then he'd say something like: "You aren't going to throw this all away just when I'm starting to change. Give me time." The idea was that he wouldn't actually do all that much differently--just enough to make me doubt--and then he'd blameshift it onto me as the one who was breaking up the marriage. 

I realize you and your BF were not married, but it was exclusive and committed, and he is doing to you something very similar to what my exH did to me. When a person has a true inner change of heart, they are no longer the same person. They don't beg and promise and try to manipulate, they just LIVE DIFFERENTLY. Usually (not always, but very often) that kind of true inner change requires therapy, or a support group, or some sort of fairly noticable major event. So in the absence of seeing him go to several months of counseling and having a personal breakthrough--I'd say he's trying to get back what he is now realiziing he lost. In other words, the consequences of his choices are painful and he doesn't like paying the price.

ETA: I agree with the folks saying to go no contact, because it will be a clean break and help both him and you to accept the end. It may feel a little harsh, and after a while you two may be able to be civil, but right now, in order to move on, I think you both need to time and space. If/When he tries to say "You're not going to give me time to change?" and blameshift you, just remember that it was his INACTION that actually caused the break, not the fact that you acted on what was already happening. Okay?


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## Faithful Wife

3x....I know it does feel good to hear him trying to win you back. He’s finally saying words and doing things you have inwardly prayed for for so long.

But even if his words are true, there is something wrong with him that will not allow him to say the right words to you IF you are in a relationship with him.

He has severe emotional intimacy issues or unavailability or whatever. But whatever it is, you already know what it’s going to look like again if you start to cave.

He will hurt you worse than ever by just repeating the same cycle.

You can walk away knowing he does love you but can’t give you what you need. You KNOW that for sure.


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## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> 3x....I know it does feel good to hear him trying to win you back. He’s finally saying words and doing things you have inwardly prayed for for so long.


My prevailing thought regarding this is WHERE TF WAS ALL THIS FOR THE LAST 4+ YEARS?? I dont like that its making me feel some kind of obligation now. I know there isnt one, but it feels like it. Given history, I know things wouldnt change for very long. 

I appreciate all the TAM wisdom!


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## Elizabeth001

One emoji for you:

 


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## FeministInPink

@3Xnocharm I know I'm a little late to the conversation today, but I wanted to add to the choir here, and say I agree with them. 

His behavior right now has to do with him failing, not his actual feelings about you. It doesn't really have anything to do with YOU. He doesn't like the fact that he has been dumped.

Now, his feelings may be real. He may really love you. But you need to look at this rationally. He may really love you, but his actions have shown that he lacks the ability to act on that in the way that you need, and he lacks the ability to be a good partner to you. He may be genuine in his intentions, but I doubt he has the wherewithal to follow through on those intentions.

He had you, but he lost you and that was all his own doing. At this point, if he wants you back, and he really means what he is saying, HE NEEDS TO EARN YOU BACK. Don't believe his words; as someone else pointed out, his words are manipulation. Believe his actions. If he can make these changes and be a better person and a better potential partner on his own, then maybe you guys have a chance. But for that to work, you need to stay away from him. After you've been apart for a year, you can revisit if he is really someone you want to be with--and if he's made the changes (and is consistent) to be the partner you deserve. I have a feeling that after a year, you will feel very differently than you do now.

You've said that going no contact sounds mean. 1) Going no contact is for YOU and to give you the space to process and to heal, and is not intended as a way to hurt him. It is for YOU. 2) His feelings are NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. If he is so immature as to think that going no contact is an attempt on your part to hurt him, and if he is butt hurt over that, so what? That is not your problem. HE HURT YOU AND HAS SHOWN NO CONCERN FOR YOUR FEELINGS. He has done the bull**** Facebook blocking and blah blah blah... which was all about him. Maybe he wanted to punish you, and if so, that is very childish... is that someone whom you should waste energy worrying over their feelings? Screw that. 

Focus on YOU and what is best for you.

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## attheend02

3Xnocharm said:


> My prevailing thought regarding this is WHERE TF WAS ALL THIS FOR THE LAST 4+ YEARS?? I dont like that its making me feel some kind of obligation now. I know there isnt one, but it feels like it. Given history, I know things wouldnt change for very long.
> 
> I appreciate all the TAM wisdom!


I tend to agree with most of the comments on this...

But I don't recall if you ever laid it on the line prior to this. Did he know you were unhappy with his behavior before cutting it off?


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## Not

3x- I don’t mean this in a crass way but he’s a day late and a dollar short. He may genuinely be feeling remorse/regret but it’s way past the point where that should be an influencing factor in any way. He had his chance, for years.


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## FeministInPink

YES!!!! THIS!!!!

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## Blondilocks

Four little words to emblazon on your heart and in your mind: TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE


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## In Absentia

Didn't realise I would find so difficult to let go... it's happened and I feel sad, depressed, empty, despite the many desperate years in my marriage. I guess I still love her and I wish we could go back to the beginning. But we can't. This is never going to happen. How do I find closure? I don't really know what my wife really thinks and I'll probably never know the real reason... depression, empty nest, menopause, old problems I thought we managed to put behind us... is this real? How can you progress without being able to process the facts, the real reasons in your head?


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## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> Didn't realise I would find so difficult to let go... it's happened and I feel sad, depressed, empty, despite the many desperate years in my marriage. I guess I still love her and I wish we could go back to the beginning. But we can't. This is never going to happen. How do I find closure? I don't really know what my wife really thinks and I'll probably never know the real reason... depression, empty nest, menopause, old problems I thought we managed to put behind us... is this real? How can you progress without being able to process the facts, the real reasons in your head?


Honestly, the real reason is that she just didn't love you/isn't in love with you. It's the base and pared down reason. It doesn't mean you did anything wrong or that you are unloveable. It's just that she didn't want to be with you, as a wife in a healthy and complete kind of marriage. I'd take it from there and just move on! Don't get stuck.


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## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> Honestly, the real reason is that she just didn't love you/isn't in love with you. It's the base and pared down reason. It doesn't mean you did anything wrong or that you are unloveable. It's just that she didn't want to be with you, as a wife in a healthy and complete kind of marriage. I'd take it from there and just move on! Don't get stuck.


You are probably correct... still a lot to process... glad I'm seeing a therapist. I think there is a lot of rebuilding to do in terms of self-esteem.


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## FeministInPink

In Absentia said:


> Didn't realise I would find so difficult to let go... it's happened and I feel sad, depressed, empty, despite the many desperate years in my marriage. I guess I still love her and I wish we could go back to the beginning. But we can't. This is never going to happen. How do I find closure? I don't really know what my wife really thinks and I'll probably never know the real reason... depression, empty nest, menopause, old problems I thought we managed to put behind us... is this real? How can you progress without being able to process the facts, the real reasons in your head?


I think one of the hardest things to accept is that for many things in life, we will never get answers or closure. It's in our nature to want to have everything neatly tied up on a complete package, with clear answers and endings. We get that in books, movies, TV series finales, etc., and we want that in real life. 

But real life doesn't work like that, and when we most want closure and answers is when we are most likely not to get them. If you can learn to accept this, and be ok with not having answers, then it will be easier to move forward.

Because whatever the answers are, they likely have nothing to do with you specifically (unless you were a cheating bastard, in which case you would know that was the reason). The answers have everything to do with her, and that's also... not your business anymore. 

Instead, focus on YOU. Figure out who you want to be, now that "husband" isn't part of your identity anymore. Figure out what you want your life to look like, and start working towards that. Stop dwelling on the past--which cannot be changed--and focus on the present and the future, which can be molded into what you want. Decide what you want our of your life, and works towards that.

Someone recently (I believe it was here on TAM, actually) told me, when I brought up my own personal difficulties in letting certain things and people go, that a difficulty in letting things go and replaying those things over an over in our minds trying to figure out what went wrong, it all really comes back to shame. Internalizing shame for not having been good enough, for having done something wrong, for not having been perfect. And this shame has a debilitating effect, preventing us from moving beyond our past and our trauma into a life in which we are truly happy, meeting our own needs, and really living up to our own potential.

If you haven't read any of Brene Brown's work, I would highly recommend it for you. Google her TED Talk first and watch it. If it resonates with you, pick up her book, "The Gifts of Imperfection." If that is helpful, she has other books as well, which you can use for follow-up.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia

FeministInPink said:


> I think one of the hardest things to accept is that for many things in life, we will never get answers or closure. It's in our nature to want to have everything neatly tied up on a complete package, with clear answers and endings. We get that in books, movies, TV series finales, etc., and we want that in real life.
> 
> But real life doesn't work like that, and when we most want closure and answers is when we are most likely not to get them. If you can learn to accept this, and be ok with not having answers, then it will be easier to move forward.
> 
> Because whatever the answers are, they likely have nothing to do with you specifically (unless you were a cheating bastard, in which case you would know that was the reason). The answers have everything to do with her, and that's also... not your business anymore.
> 
> Instead, focus on YOU. Figure out who you want to be, now that "husband" isn't part of your identity anymore. Figure out what you want your life to look like, and start working towards that. Stop dwelling on the past--which cannot be changed--and focus on the present and the future, which can be molded into what you want. Decide what you want our of your life, and works towards that.
> 
> Someone recently (I believe it was here on TAM, actually) told me, when I brought up my own personal difficulties in letting certain things and people go, that a difficulty in letting things go and replaying those things over an over in our minds trying to figure out what went wrong, it all really comes back to shame. Internalizing shame for not having been good enough, for having done something wrong, for not having been perfect. And this shame has a debilitating effect, preventing us from moving beyond our past and our trauma into a life in which we are truly happy, meeting our own needs, and really living up to our own potential.
> 
> If you haven't read any of Brene Brown's work, I would highly recommend it for you. Google her TED Talk first and watch it. If it resonates with you, pick up her book, "The Gifts of Imperfection." If that is helpful, she has other books as well, which you can use for follow-up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



I think I'm going to frame this.... 

Regarding the shame... maybe subconsciously it is that, but I don't quite know what I feel. I think I still feel anger. Not towards my wife, but towards my life. My therapist keeps asking me if I feel any guilt, but I don't, because I've done all I could. I feel regret for certain things and behaviours. I only feel guilty about my kids, for isolating myself and not being able to be strong enough to be there for them when things got bad. But I will have to pick my self up. The feeling of emptiness and rejection is immense. I know it's not my problem and her issues are not my problem now, but it's difficult to let go when you have spent most of your life with one person.

I will have to sit down and decide where I go from here and what kind of life I really want for myself. Wish me luck!


----------



## FeministInPink

In Absentia said:


> I think I'm going to frame this....
> 
> Regarding the shame... maybe subconsciously it is that, but I don't quite know what I feel. I think I still feel anger. Not towards my wife, but towards my life. My therapist keeps asking me if I feel any guilt, but I don't, because I've done all I could. I feel regret for certain things and behaviours. I only feel guilty about my kids, for isolating myself and not being able to be strong enough to be there for them when things got bad. But I will have to pick my self up. The feeling of emptiness and rejection is immense. I know it's not my problem and her issues are not my problem now, but it's difficult to let go when you have spent most of your life with one person.
> 
> I will have to sit down and decide where I go from here and what kind of life I really want for myself. Wish me luck!


The end of a relationship brings all kinds of emotions, so it's not surprising that you don't know how you feel. But there are some indicators in your post that shame IS playing a big role, and yes, it's totally subconscious. Check out the Brene Brown stuff. Trust me, you won't regret it. You need help moving forward, and her books will help.

There's also a book titled "Rebuilding After Your Relationship Ends." (Different author.) You might want to check that one out.

Your therapist keeps asking if you feel any guilt. There's a reason behind that. You say that you feel a lot of anger. Anger is pretty much always a surrogate for another deeper, more difficult emotion, and men in particular have a harder time identifying those deeper emotions, because they are not socially conditioned to be in touch with their emotions the way that women are.

For example, you are angry with a friend for blowing off an activity with you. The anger is a surrogate for the disappointment you feel in your friend, your pain at the broken trust (he lied to you when he said he was going to be there), pain of being devalued by your friend (something else was more important than honoring his word to do this thing with you), and also the embarassment/shame of having been stood up and potentially embarrassed that your friend didn't show. (The shame here refers to the feeling that you're not good enough for your friend. Shame comes up/is relevant far more than people realize.)

Anger is never just anger. And anger at yourself is indicative of strong negative feelings toward yourself, and your therapist wants to get to the root of those and work on those, because that is most likely the root of whatever is holding you back.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

I have a date tonight! Cross fingers. Will update. (It is not with The Rock).


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## Lila

In Absentia said:


> I think I'm going to frame this....
> 
> Regarding the shame... maybe subconsciously it is that, but I don't quite know what I feel. I think I still feel anger. Not towards my wife, but towards my life. My therapist keeps asking me if I feel any guilt, but I don't, because I've done all I could. I feel regret for certain things and behaviours. I only feel guilty about my kids, for isolating myself and not being able to be strong enough to be there for them when things got bad. But I will have to pick my self up. The feeling of emptiness and rejection is immense. I know it's not my problem and her issues are not my problem now, but it's difficult to let go when you have spent most of your life with one person.
> 
> I will have to sit down and decide where I go from here and what kind of life I really want for myself. Wish me luck!


Just wanted to tell you you are not alone. There are days I feel just like you describe above. With me those feelings have gotten worse over time. I am being reassured by everyone that has gone through similar that this is normal and it'll get better.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I have a date tonight! Cross fingers. Will update. (It is not with The Rock). <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>


So exciting! Hope it goes great.


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## Lila

Does anyone else have the problem where the people who are attracted to you are not the ones who you are attracted to? I'm batting a big fat 0 when it comes to mutual attraction. I'm keeping an open mind when it comes to preferences but even then, I'm not attracting the guys I am interested in attracting.


----------



## Blondilocks

Faithful Wife said:


> I have a date tonight! Cross fingers. Will update. (It is not with The Rock).


'Tis a pity. Duane Johnson is so cute - I'm fascinated, weirded out and jealous when he does that thing with his pecs. Me? I'd have some pasties with tassels on.:grin2:


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## Faithful Wife

Blondilocks said:


> 'Tis a pity. Duane Johnson is so cute - I'm fascinated, weirded out and jealous when he does that thing with his pecs. Me? I'd have some pasties with tassels on.:grin2:


I did not ask my Rock to do the boobie dance. Though I know he could do it if he wanted to. I did shove my face into his chest and motorboat him, though. :grin2:


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## Elizabeth001

Blondilocks said:


> 'Tis a pity. Duane Johnson is so cute - I'm fascinated, weirded out and jealous when he does that thing with his pecs. Me? I'd have some pasties with tassels on.:grin2:




I can’t wear those any more. My knees are too ticklish. 




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## Faithful Wife

Date had to cancel so we rescheduled for a lunch date tomorrow. Dang I was hoping for some kisses tonight. 

I told him he would have to come pick me up at work to prove to my co workers that he exists. He said he would.

Actually my coworkers just want to creep on him. Lolz


----------



## honcho

Lila said:


> Does anyone else have the problem where the people who are attracted to you are not the ones who you are attracted to? I'm batting a big fat 0 when it comes to mutual attraction. I'm keeping an open mind when it comes to preferences but even then, I'm not attracting the guys I am interested in attracting.


Yes, yes and yes.


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> Does anyone else have the problem where the people who are attracted to you are not the ones who you are attracted to? I'm batting a big fat 0 when it comes to mutual attraction. I'm keeping an open mind when it comes to preferences but even then, I'm not attracting the guys I am interested in attracting.


Yup! I've been asked out by customers at the bookstore on a regular basis--but never anyone I would be remotely interested in going out with.

That being said, I'm not even trying right now. If I was actually trying, I don't know if it would be the same.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia

FeministInPink said:


> Anger is never just anger. And anger at yourself is indicative of strong negative feelings toward yourself, and your therapist wants to get to the root of those and work on those, because that is most likely the root of whatever is holding you back.



Thank you for your post... I'm not quoting the whole thing so not to make my answer difficult to read, although it will be short... 

Now that the separation is for real, I will be able to start exploring my many "buried" issues more deeply with the therapist. She was still a bit hell-bent on trying to re-establish the relationship by trying all sort of non sexual intimacy stuff when I knew my wife wouldn't want that. I was 100% sure. So, the focus will now shift on me, hopefully.


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## notmyjamie

In Absentia said:


> Now that the separation is for real, I will be able to start exploring my many "buried" issues more deeply with the therapist. She was still a bit hell-bent on trying to re-establish the relationship by trying all sort of non sexual intimacy stuff when I knew my wife wouldn't want that. I was 100% sure. So, the focus will now shift on me, hopefully.


If it doesn't you need to find a new therapist. One who wants to focus on you and your own personal issues, not your wife's issues.


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## In Absentia

notmyjamie said:


> If it doesn't you need to find a new therapist. One who wants to focus on you and your own personal issues, not your wife's issues.


yes, I'm a bit on the fence with her... I've just been and told her that our separation is decided and a sure thing. So, now it's time to focus on me. She is very understanding and sympathetic... let's see how it goes next week. It's the 6th session so we will have the chance to re-valuate and take it from there. I understand we had to talk about my relationship with my wife, but since she is out of the window now (metaphorically speaking :laugh, I need to understand my behaviour in all of this.


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## ReformedHubby

FeministInPink said:


> Yup! I've been asked out by customers at the bookstore on a regular basis--but never anyone I would be remotely interested in going out with.
> 
> That being said, I'm not even trying right now. *If I was actually trying, I don't know if it would be the same.*
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


This...I think it must be some sort of weird constant in the universe. I think we all attract more when we aren't thinking about it. But if we are thinking about it....nothing:scratchhead:


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## FeministInPink

In Absentia said:


> yes, I'm a bit on the fence with her... I've just been and told her that our separation is decided and a sure thing. So, now it's time to focus on me. She is very understanding and sympathetic... let's see how it goes next week. It's the 6th session so we will have the chance to re-valuate and take it from there. I understand we had to talk about my relationship with my wife, but since she is out of the window now (metaphorically speaking ), I need to understand my behaviour in all of this.


Yeah, I agree, if she doesn't focus on you and moving forward and dealing with your issues, you may need to find a new therapist.

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## Faithful Wife

Lunch date was great! And yes, my co-workers got to creep him through the windows.

Very cute, very smart, very sexy, very sweet guy. I have actually been texting with this guy for over a month, trying to set up a date. Then when we actually set one, that day he started passing a kidney stone. Ugh, wtf? So that can take a week or more, which it did, and we kept putting off meeting until it was done. Then shortly after it was actually done, his father died unexpectedly and he had to fly to the east coast to take care of the funeral.

Finally after that dust had settled, he is back and we were able to meet at last. When he had to cancel last night I was like ugh, is this ever going to actually happen? But it did happen, today at lunch, finally.

No making out but a very nice kiss at the end and a great conversation and we will see each other again this weekend. Woot!


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## Livvie

Went out with some friends after work yesterday. A male friend of one of my friends was there. Guy is about 50. Not attractive at all physically, and more importantly, not attractive personality wise either. He seems like a plodder. Low energy. No spark. A physically unattractive man can be sexy and desirable-- if he's got a great personality.

My point is that this was a below average in both looks and personality guy. 

He was saying how he's newly dating a woman. He's excited about her because she has "big tits" and she's in her 30s and he "likes them young". 

That's it. Big tits and younger than him were the only qualities he was excited about and was mentioning.

It made me understand why many people are discouraged with dating if this is a lot of what's out there.

My second thought was that maybe this woman has no other redeeming qualities he could have talked about... because a much younger, attractive, quality woman would most likely not be be interested in this guy.


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## Blondilocks

Livvie said:


> Went out with some friends after work yesterday. A male friend of one of my friends was there. Guy is about 50. Not attractive at all physically, and more importantly, not attractive personality wise either. He seems like a plodder. Low energy. No spark. A physically unattractive man can be sexy and desirable-- if he's got a great personality.
> 
> My point is that this was a below average in both looks and personality guy.
> 
> He was saying how he's newly dating a woman. He's excited about her because she has "big tits" and she's in her 30s and he "likes them young".
> 
> That's it. Big tits and younger than him were the only qualities he was excited about and was mentioning.
> 
> It made me understand why many people are discouraged with dating if this is a lot of what's out there.
> 
> My second thought was that maybe this woman has no other redeeming qualities he could have talked about... because a much younger, attractive, quality woman would most likely not be be interested in this guy.


I think you missed the part where he said "he* dreamed*....".


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## Faithful Wife

Livvie said:


> Went out with some friends after work yesterday. A male friend of one of my friends was there. Guy is about 50. Not attractive at all physically, and more importantly, not attractive personality wise either. He seems like a plodder. Low energy. No spark. A physically unattractive man can be sexy and desirable-- if he's got a great personality.
> 
> My point is that this was a below average in both looks and personality guy.
> 
> He was saying how he's newly dating a woman. He's excited about her because she has "big tits" and she's in her 30s and he "likes them young".
> 
> That's it. Big tits and younger than him were the only qualities he was excited about and was mentioning.
> 
> It made me understand why many people are discouraged with dating if this is a lot of what's out there.
> 
> My second thought was that maybe this woman has no other redeeming qualities he could have talked about... because a much younger, attractive, quality woman would most likely not be be interested in this guy.


I began a match making service a few years ago. I would counsel people about dating, online dating profiles, and would also work with them discussing what they are looking for. Then I would also help them look for matches, through a few different avenues.

What I found was the same every time.

Women that needed my help, it was because they were psychologically unable to navigate relationships. Which ultimately meant that no matter what kind match I could find them, the relationship could not possibly last and we would be in the same spot again soon enough.

Men that needed my help, it was because they were average or so type guys, but would literally not even consider dating a woman who was not above average and most of them also said she had to be younger as well.

Eventually, I just did not know how to tell any of them the truth. Either you are not relationship material and need a lot of self work, or you have completely unrealistic expectations and you will never attract what you are seeking.

A few times when I presented a woman’s profile or introduced someone to one of these guys, they literally looked like they thought I must be crazy. Like how in the world could I have thought HE would ever go out with HER? 

I gave up because I could not see myself being direct enough to help any of them. It felt cruel. They could not see themselves as the outside world or the opposite sex sees them. They all thought it was the world who had it wrong, not them.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Men that needed my help, it was because they were average or so type guys, but would literally not even consider dating a woman who was not above average and most of them also said she had to be younger as well.
> 
> Eventually, I just did not know how to tell any of them the truth. Either you are not relationship material and need a lot of self work, or you have completely unrealistic expectations and you will never attract what you are seeking.


I really do not get the insistence that some men have on preferring younger women...I suppose if a man wants kids it makes sense...but to me older is better. I simply did not feel the same chemistry with women in their late 20s when dating, I also felt they wanted a life that didn't interest me. Getting remarried and having a baby? I've already done that...I decided to pretty much ignore everyone below the age of 35. Also....speaking frankly...sex is better with older women to me.


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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> I really do not get the insistence that some men have on preferring younger women...I suppose if a man wants kids it makes sense...but to me older is better. I simply did not feel the same chemistry with women in their late 20s when dating, I also felt they wanted a life that didn't interest me. Getting remarried and having a baby? I've already done that...I decided to pretty much ignore everyone below the age of 35. Also....speaking frankly...sex is better with older women to me.


I have 2 female friends who sort of act like getting a younger dude is some kind of accomplishment, the same way some guys will boast about bagging a younger woman.

It has something to do with them feeling like there must be something “special” about them that these younger guys like them. Or it just makes them feel special, or whatever.

I don’t think there’s anything really special about older or middle or younger people. 

I mean, if anything, wouldn’t we feel that if younger people always like us it may mean we are a bit immature? I mean some younger people are amazing but some are just still very much finding their way. So if they are always the ones who like us maybe we can’t quite find our way yet either.

The 2 women I know do have some immature issues and don’t completely have their **** together. They do in some areas of their lives but not others. And it seems like men who have their **** together in all areas don’t have as much interest in them. So these younger guys they attract, in a way also reflect my friends’ “not quite there in life yet” vibe. But they feel it is because there is something special about them.

I never know what to say when I’m looking at this young dude she is dating and all I can think is yeah, ok, he’s still learning relationship basics that are really going to set you back with this guy. But you feel like he is a prize simply because he is young. If he was your age, and was in the same position he is now would he be a prize? Because ****wittage is the same no matter how old they are, them being younger doesn’t to me make it any easier to deal with nonsense.

Hotness is not diminished by age, so my friends insistence on youth didn’t make sense in that realm either. Guys our age who were true physical specimens were not rare. 

The one thing they said I could not dispute was the amazing sex you get with a young man and those awesome endless erections. 

Even that isn’t enough to make me want to spend breakfast the next morning with a guy who was just “young”. 

OTOH, lots of young men and women are not immature, are interesting and have lived full lives and have robust experience, both relationship and other experiences. This not a bash young people post. It’s just a questioning of those who insist on dating younger. It just always comes across as chasing your own fleeting youth. Why else would it be so important to them and make them feel so special?


----------



## Livvie

Interesting! I think the matchmaking experience was truly an insight into people! Not just a casual observation.... But real knowledge about what was going on with people in the dating world! 

It doesn't annoy me if someone just happens to be with someone much younger, but I will admit the attitude of (mainly) men that they are *entitled* to only date younger women (no matter what they have to offer) and that women their age aren't worth anything-- is a real disappointment.


----------



## Livvie

.... adding.....youth isn't anything special. Everyone, everyone is born with it. Looked at from way afar, it's strange that it's valued the way it is by some daters.


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## Faithful Wife

Livvie said:


> .... adding.....youth isn't anything special. Everyone, everyone is born with it. Looked at from way afar, it's strange that it's valued the way it is by some daters.


Ha ha, yes! Youth is something we all get to experience. It is lovely and fleeting and you will be happier later if you enjoyed yourself. But it’s nothing special, it’s also like being a child. A phase of life that every adult got to have. Not something they feel was the only important time in their lives.

It is weird to chase it for its own sake.

I love some young people and they love me. But it’s not their youth it is what they have as an individual that makes me love or have interest in them. And same with attraction, I’m not just automatically going to be more attracted to a younger person, not by a long shot. People of all ages are really hot, and those who can’t see this are a mystery to me.


----------



## Lila

honcho said:


> Yes, yes and yes.


LOL, I'm glad I'm not alone. 



FeministInPink said:


> Yup! I've been asked out by customers at the bookstore on a regular basis--but never anyone I would be remotely interested in going out with.
> 
> That being said, I'm not even trying right now. If I was actually trying, I don't know if it would be the same.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk





ReformedHubby said:


> This...I think it must be some sort of weird constant in the universe. I think we all attract more when we aren't thinking about it. But if we are thinking about it....nothing:scratchhead:



I think my issue is more in line with what @FeministInPink and @ReformedHubby posted. I was out with a group of friends recently. There's one "older" guy (he's almost 15 years older than me) in this group who I find incredibly attractive. He's the not the handsomest, or wealthiest, or smartest, but there's just something about him that makes him very attractive to me. There's a calm about him that I can't describe. Well...HE'S not interested in me "that way" but his much hotter friend seemed to be. So what's the problem? His friend is a complete a**hole. 

I have to laugh.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I began a match making service a few years ago. I would counsel people about dating, online dating profiles, and would also work with them discussing what they are looking for. Then I would also help them look for matches, through a few different avenues.
> 
> What I found was the same every time.
> 
> Women that needed my help, it was because they were psychologically unable to navigate relationships. Which ultimately meant that no matter what kind match I could find them, the relationship could not possibly last and we would be in the same spot again soon enough.
> 
> Men that needed my help, it was because they were average or so type guys, but would literally not even consider dating a woman who was not above average and most of them also said she had to be younger as well.
> 
> Eventually, I just did not know how to tell any of them the truth. Either you are not relationship material and need a lot of self work, or you have completely unrealistic expectations and you will never attract what you are seeking.
> 
> A few times when I presented a woman’s profile or introduced someone to one of these guys, they literally looked like they thought I must be crazy. Like how in the world could I have thought HE would ever go out with HER?
> 
> I gave up because I could not see myself being direct enough to help any of them. It felt cruel. They could not see themselves as the outside world or the opposite sex sees them. They all thought it was the world who had it wrong, not them.


Have you considered Life Coaching? Sort of similar but with a broader scope. I have an appointment with one next week who specializes in post divorce life rebuilding. She's been there, done it, and has some success helping other women.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I began a match making service a few years ago. I would counsel people about dating, online dating profiles, and would also work with them discussing what they are looking for. Then I would also help them look for matches, through a few different avenues.
> 
> What I found was the same every time.
> 
> Women that needed my help, it was because they were psychologically unable to navigate relationships. Which ultimately meant that no matter what kind match I could find them, the relationship could not possibly last and we would be in the same spot again soon enough.
> 
> Men that needed my help, it was because they were average or so type guys, but would literally not even consider dating a woman who was not above average and most of them also said she had to be younger as well.
> 
> Eventually, I just did not know how to tell any of them the truth. Either you are not relationship material and need a lot of self work, or you have completely unrealistic expectations and you will never attract what you are seeking.
> 
> A few times when I presented a woman’s profile or introduced someone to one of these guys, they literally looked like they thought I must be crazy. Like how in the world could I have thought HE would ever go out with HER?
> 
> I gave up because I could not see myself being direct enough to help any of them. It felt cruel. They could not see themselves as the outside world or the opposite sex sees them. They all thought it was the world who had it wrong, not them.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered Life Coaching? Sort of similar but with a broader scope. I have an appointment with one next week who specializes in post divorce life rebuilding. She's been there, done it, and has some success helping other women.
Click to expand...

I don’t have the energy for a side gig I once had. It’s just easier to have a job. I have considered being a sex coach, however.

My meaning of that word doesn’t include anyone getting naked, just sincere coaching. That would be fun enough maybe to inspire me.

But when you want your side gig to be to drive a race car around, I feel I’m not being philanthropic enough. Hee!


----------



## honcho

Faithful Wife said:


> I have 2 female friends who sort of act like getting a younger dude is some kind of accomplishment, the same way some guys will boast about bagging a younger woman.
> 
> It has something to do with them feeling like there must be something “special” about them that these younger guys like them. Or it just makes them feel special, or whatever.
> 
> I don’t think there’s anything really special about older or middle or younger people.
> 
> I mean, if anything, wouldn’t we feel that if younger people always like us it may mean we are a bit immature? I mean some younger people are amazing but some are just still very much finding their way. So if they are always the ones who like us maybe we can’t quite find our way yet either.
> 
> The 2 women I know do have some immature issues and don’t completely have their **** together. They do in some areas of their lives but not others. And it seems like men who have their **** together in all areas don’t have as much interest in them. So these younger guys they attract, in a way also reflect my friends’ “not quite there in life yet” vibe. But they feel it is because there is something special about them.
> 
> I never know what to say when I’m looking at this young dude she is dating and all I can think is yeah, ok, he’s still learning relationship basics that are really going to set you back with this guy. But you feel like he is a prize simply because he is young. If he was your age, and was in the same position he is now would he be a prize? Because ****wittage is the same no matter how old they are, them being younger doesn’t to me make it any easier to deal with nonsense.
> 
> Hotness is not diminished by age, so my friends insistence on youth didn’t make sense in that realm either. Guys our age who were true physical specimens were not rare.
> 
> The one thing they said I could not dispute was the amazing sex you get with a young man and those awesome endless erections.
> 
> Even that isn’t enough to make me want to spend breakfast the next morning with a guy who was just “young”.
> 
> OTOH, lots of young men and women are not immature, are interesting and have lived full lives and have robust experience, both relationship and other experiences. This not a bash young people post. It’s just a questioning of those who insist on dating younger. It just always comes across as chasing your own fleeting youth. Why else would it be so important to them and make them feel so special?


I've got near zero desire to date much younger than me. I was set up once with a person 12 years younger than me and I felt like grandpa and she had "daddy issues". One date was enough. Most guys who want younger want eye candy, not a relationship and they can buy that by the hour haha.


----------



## Elizabeth001

XH was 9 years older than me and I thought then, as I do now that it was just enough to miss each other’s generation. I would love to find someone serious to date that is my age or within a year or two. It’s always so much more fun and familiar talking about things you experienced when your timelines match up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## honcho

Lila said:


> Have you considered Life Coaching? Sort of similar but with a broader scope. I have an appointment with one next week who specializes in post divorce life rebuilding. She's been there, done it, and has some success helping other women.


Looks like Lila got a promotion and the keys to the magical land of Tam moderator. Or you getting punished> depends on your view haha


----------



## Lila

honcho said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered Life Coaching? Sort of similar but with a broader scope. I have an appointment with one next week who specializes in post divorce life rebuilding. She's been there, done it, and has some success helping other women.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Lila got a promotion and the keys to the magical land of Tam moderator. Or you getting punished<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a> depends on your view haha
Click to expand...

Lol, I'll let you know in a month which way the pendulum swung on whether I was rewarded or punished. 

I changed my avatar to show I'm watching. 😉.


----------



## Blondilocks

Lila said:


> Lol, I'll let you know in a month which way the pendulum swung on whether I was rewarded or punished.
> 
> *I changed my avatar to show I'm watching*. 😉.


Gotta say - that's a little bit creepy (beautiful eyes, though).:grin2:


----------



## Lila

Blondilocks said:


> Gotta say - that's a little bit creepy (beautiful eyes, though).:grin2:


You should have seen how creepy it was when I turned them into a gif where the eyes track left and right. I thought that was just too weird. :laugh:

(And thank you)


----------



## ReformedHubby

Lila said:


> You should have seen how creepy it was when I turned them into a gif where the eyes track left and right. I thought that was just too weird. :laugh:
> 
> (And thank you)


Ha, ha... i'd like to see the shifty eye one. A bit jealous that you were one of the "chosen". Perhaps if I keep posting and avoid getting banned....maybe one day. A guy can dream.....sigh....


----------



## Lila

So.....what do the singles of TAM have planned for the weekend?

I'm binge watching Season 3 of Stranger Things. Just started on episode 1 of Season 3. So excited!!:bounce:


----------



## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> So.....what do the singles of TAM have planned for the weekend?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm binge watching Season 3 of Stranger Things. Just started on episode 1 of Season 3. So excited!!:bounce:




Same but not too impressed so far. On episode 3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lila

Elizabeth001 said:


> Same but not too impressed so far. On episode 3.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh noo! I wasn't crazy about Season 2 and was hoping 3 would bounce it back. We'll have to compare notes.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> Oh noo! I wasn't crazy about Season 2 and was hoping 3 would bounce it back. We'll have to compare notes.




Well it’s all a cool trip down memory lane if nothing else 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> So.....what do the singles of TAM have planned for the weekend?
> 
> I'm binge watching Season 3 of Stranger Things. Just started on episode 1 of Season 3. So excited!!<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/bounce.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Bounce" ></a>


I just watched the first 2 episodes but I’m forcing myself to wait until Sunday to watch more!


----------



## Faithful Wife

I’m loving it so far! I’m on the edge of my seat.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I just watched the first 2 episodes but I’m forcing myself to wait until Sunday to watch more!


You have much more will power than I do. I am falling asleep but can't because of this show.


----------



## FeministInPink

I'm working all weekend. Fun *rolls eyes*

I haven't seen a single episode of Stranger Things. I might have to start.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> I'm working all weekend. Fun *rolls eyes*
> 
> I haven't seen a single episode of Stranger Things. I might have to start.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


If you like thrillers and horror flicks, you almost certainly will like it.

I don’t usually like that type of genre, but I did love the excellent ones like Poltergeist and Sixth Sense.

Stranger Things is as good or better than those to me. It has so many good things, the cast, the writing, the music, suspense, and you will never know what is about to happen. If you do start I would recommend not reading too much about it before you start. To allow no spoilers!


----------



## In Absentia

Working all weekend and watching the British police drama "Line of Duty"... 5th series... gripping stuff! Might go to the pub for a quick drink... but I can't drink much these days...


----------



## Hexagon

Lila said:


> Does anyone else have the problem where the people who are attracted to you are not the ones who you are attracted to? I'm batting a big fat 0 when it comes to mutual attraction. I'm keeping an open mind when it comes to preferences but even then, I'm not attracting the guys I am interested in attracting.


Consistently. But with that being said, I'm aggressive when it comes to approaching those I find attractive. I don't know if I've lost my finesse' or that I simply don't give a ****. 
I will admit to gaining weight so that has something to do with it as well. I cut out all sugar and started drinking more water but I do that for me however, I know the real culprit. I drink super strong craft beer once or twice a week before bed. Not thinking about women has led to me letting myself go a little. 
Like I said a month or so ago, I crave it once every couple of weeks and I tell myself, "get it together man. Get out there"!
Then something in my head goes, "do you really want the hassle?"
So now, when I see a woman that's attractive, I approach and cut out all of the BS semantics. (I've never had the tact for small talk) She either bites or she doesn't. I don't care which. 

I often wonder how much my age has to do with what I attract now.


----------



## Lila

Hexagon said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have the problem where the people who are attracted to you are not the ones who you are attracted to? I'm batting a big fat 0 when it comes to mutual attraction. I'm keeping an open mind when it comes to preferences but even then, I'm not attracting the guys I am interested in attracting.
> 
> 
> 
> Consistently. But with that being said, I'm aggressive when it comes to approaching those I find attractive. I don't know if I've lost my finesse' or that I simply don't give a ****.
> I will admit to gaining weight so that has something to do with it as well. I cut out all sugar and started drinking more water but I do that for me however, I know the real culprit. I drink super strong craft beer once or twice a week before bed. Not thinking about women has led to me letting myself go a little.
> Like I said a month or so ago, I crave it once every couple of weeks and I tell myself, "get it together man. Get out there"!
> Then something in my head goes, "do you really want the hassle?"
> So now, when I see a woman that's attractive, I approach and cut out all of the BS semantics. (I've never had the tact for small talk) She either bites or she doesn't. I don't care which.
> 
> *I often wonder how much my age has to do with what I attract now.*
Click to expand...

How old are you and what kind of woman are you hoping to attract?


----------



## Lila

I was reading an article about Hinge and decided to check it out. It's different in that there is no profile to fill out. It can link to Instagram or Facebook to complete a personality profile.

Set up was easy. They have 2 requirements: upload 6 photos or videos, and answer three questions. 

Users get 10 free likes every day. Have to pay the monthly fee to get unlimited likes. 

So my review so far... I have a feeling most of the profiles on there are fake. The people they show are just too perfect. Every man in Atlanta with a profile on there between 40-55 is apparently a gym rat. Haven't seen one out of shape guy yet, lmao. 

Anyways for statistical purposes, have liked 20 profiles (all of my free likes for yesterday and today), and matched with 2. I've had 14 people like mine without prompting from me of which I matched with 5.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I was reading an article about Hinge and decided to check it out. It's different in that there is no profile to fill out. It can link to Instagram or Facebook to complete a personality profile.
> 
> Set up was easy. They have 2 requirements: upload 6 photos or videos, and answer three questions.
> 
> Users get 10 free likes every day. Have to pay the monthly fee to get unlimited likes.
> 
> So my review so far... I have a feeling most of the profiles on there are fake. The people they show are just too perfect. Every man in Atlanta with a profile on there between 40-55 is apparently a gym rat. Haven't seen one out of shape guy yet, lmao.
> 
> Anyways for statistical purposes, have liked 20 profiles (all of my free likes for yesterday and today), and matched with 2. I've had 14 people like mine without prompting from me of which I matched with 5.


If the app is new it does likely have a lot of fake profiles.

Having said that, we never know if any profile on any app is real until we match with someone and the. Check them out.

Will be interested to hear if any of your matches do check out! 

Also to me it’s just fun beginning that process and flirting with people until one turns into a date.


----------



## AVR1962

Had a few dates the last couple weeks. Met a doctor, not realizing he was a doctor until we met. My height and weight which was kind of different...I just happen to show up in heels for our first date! He is asked me out 4 times now and we have done some real fun things....comedy club, music and fireworks, went out for cheesecake, he asked me to an amusement park but I had to work. He is 3 years younger, we both are regulars at the gym and work at our diet, good conversation, seems like a mutual attraction but here is the kicker....he has 3 children ages 9-16. I am ready to have fun and his time will be precious with his children so I am not giving much to this. 

Went out for a drink with another man a few years old, much better looking in person than online but he hardly spoke. In his profile he said he was shy but to give him a chance to get to know him. Hum! I am getting out though. seeing more of my girlfriends and have been traveling a little so life is good!


----------



## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> Had a few dates the last couple weeks. Met a doctor, not realizing he was a doctor until we met. My height and weight which was kind of different...I just happen to show up in heels for our first date! He is asked me out 4 times now and we have done some real fun things....comedy club, music and fireworks, went out for cheesecake, he asked me to an amusement park but I had to work. He is 3 years younger, we both are regulars at the gym and work at our diet, good conversation, seems like a mutual attraction but here is the kicker....he has 3 children ages 9-16. I am ready to have fun and his time will be precious with his children so I am not giving much to this.
> 
> Went out for a drink with another man a few years old, much better looking in person than online but he hardly spoke. In his profile he said he was shy but to give him a chance to get to know him. Hum! I am getting out though. seeing more of my girlfriends and have been traveling a little so life is good!


I’m super happy you are dating and having a good time. Break out the MV dating book and watch as things unfold just like so many examples in the book.

I especially loved how that book helped me understand how men act on early dates. And then how to know if a man is pursuing you or if he is only luke warm.


----------



## notmyjamie

Lila said:


> So.....what do the singles of TAM have planned for the weekend?
> 
> I'm binge watching Season 3 of Stranger Things. Just started on episode 1 of Season 3. So excited!!:bounce:


I spent last night and today with the guy I've been dating. We've been eating out so much so last night I showed up at his place with everything I needed to make a full dinner. This morning he made me breakfast and tonight he made dinner. We had a great day together, hanging out, cooking, did some shopping, and started watching Weeds. (I know, we're way behind!) I'm finding it so easy to spend time with him. We have SO much in common that it almost feels like I've known him for years and not just 2 months.

Tomorrow I'm spending the day with my daughter and doing some planning for our vacation on Cape Cod that starts on Wednesday. Also need to start filling out my mediation paperwork for the divorce. Can't wait to get that done and have the papers filed. Our appointment is Wednesday!!!


----------



## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> I’m super happy you are dating and having a good time. Break out the MV dating book and watch as things unfold just like so many examples in the book.
> 
> I especially loved how that book helped me understand how men act on early dates. And then how to know if a man is pursuing you or if he is only luke warm.


I read it, it does explain alot of the behavior for sure. I can see it more since I read the book.


----------



## notmyjamie

AVR1962 said:


> I read it, it does explain alot of the behavior for sure. I can see it more since I read the book.


What book is this? I'm curious!


----------



## Andy1001

AVR1962 said:


> Had a few dates the last couple weeks. Met a doctor, not realizing he was a doctor until we met. My height and weight which was kind of different...I just happen to show up in heels for our first date! He is asked me out 4 times now and we have done some real fun things....comedy club, music and fireworks, went out for cheesecake, he asked me to an amusement park but I had to work. He is 3 years younger, we both are regulars at the gym and work at our diet, good conversation, seems like a mutual attraction but here is the kicker....he has 3 children ages 9-16. I am ready to have fun and his time will be precious with his children so I am not giving much to this.
> 
> Went out for a drink with another man a few years old, much better looking in person than online but he hardly spoke. In his profile he said he was shy but to give him a chance to get to know him. Hum! I am getting out though. seeing more of my girlfriends and have been traveling a little so life is good!


Andy’s second rule of dating. 
No doctors!


----------



## ReformedHubby

Andy1001 said:


> Andy’s second rule of dating.
> No doctors!


I assume you are mostly joking, but why no doctors? I totally get why no lawyers though...kidding...kind of...


----------



## Andy1001

ReformedHubby said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Andy’s second rule of dating.
> No doctors!
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you are mostly joking, but why no doctors? I totally get why no lawyers though...kidding...kind of...
Click to expand...

I’m not joking at all. 
Doctors are bad news, they are promiscuous with a god complex. 
And as for nurses........,


----------



## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> I’m not joking at all.
> Doctors are bad news, they are promiscuous with a god complex.
> And as for nurses........,


HEY!!!!!!!!!!! :surprise:


----------



## ReformedHubby

Andy1001 said:


> I’m not joking at all.
> Doctors are bad news, they are promiscuous with a god complex.
> And as for nurses........,


Not to be contrarian...but my ex-wife was a nurse before we got married and for a few years afterwards. I met a few of the doctors she worked with...honestly not to be mean...but it made me feel like the handsome doctor is a myth. It didn't make me uncomfortable or insecure at all for her to be around them. The nurses were not the least bit interested in them. If anything the nurses thought they were all jerks because of how the doctors treated them. Ironically my current girlfriend is also a nurse (do I have a thing?) She on the other hand had multiple EAs when married but I can't judge her because I had PAs. None of her EAs were with doctors though.


----------



## notmyjamie

ReformedHubby said:


> Not to be contrarian...but my ex-wife was a nurse before we got married and for a few years afterwards. I met a few of the doctors she worked with...honestly not to be mean...but it made me feel like the handsome doctor is a myth. It didn't make me uncomfortable or insecure at all for her to be around them. The nurses were not the least bit interested in them. If anything the nurses thought they were all jerks because of how the doctors treated them. Ironically my current girlfriend is also a nurse (do I have a thing?) She on the other hand had multiple EAs when married but I can't judge her because I had PAs. None of her EAs were with doctors though.


I've been a nurse for over 20 years. In that time I've seen exactly ONE instance of a nurse having an affair with a doctor. All of us were shocked. I think it was more a case of he was just as weird as she is and so they clicked. They both ended their prior relationships and ended up living together for a few years. There was a doctor who left his wife to marry the secretary. She was his 4th wife. But hey, fourth time was the charm...they were married for 15 years and she got his entire estate, which was a lot, when he died last year.

I've worked with a lot of doctors over the years. Some I've hated and some I've loved. But I've never felt the need to have an affair with any of them. The idea never even occurred to me.


----------



## Andy1001

ReformedHubby said:


> Not to be contrarian...but my ex-wife was a nurse before we got married and for a few years afterwards. I met a few of the doctors she worked with...honestly not to be mean...but it made me feel like the handsome doctor is a myth. It didn't make me uncomfortable or insecure at all for her to be around them. The nurses were not the least bit interested in them. If anything the nurses thought they were all jerks because of how the doctors treated them. Ironically my current girlfriend is also a nurse (do I have a thing?) She on the other hand had multiple EAs when married but I can't judge her because I had PAs. None of her EAs were with doctors though.


When I first moved from NY I bought an apartment in Boston very near a large hospital. The company who owned the hospital also owned a good few of the apartments. Their was a large contingent of hospital staff living there,everything from surgeons to student nurses. 
I have never seen a more promiscuous group of people. 
The surgeons thought that they were god and most of the nurses agreed with them. Some of the shenanigans going on were unbelievable and I joined in enthusiastically lol. A few of the staff were married but they were spending a few nights each week away from home,they were as bad as anyone else. 
That’s why I made my personal rule about medical staff. Their ok for sex but not for anything serious. 
I should say that this was a private hospital, mostly selective surgery etc. It didn’t have an emergency room or anything like that.


----------



## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> That’s why I made my personal rule about medical staff. Their ok for sex but not for anything serious.



Ouch. 

I thought a smart guy like you would realize that you can't take such a small sample of the medical community and extrapolate that out to ALL medical people. Even in a small hospital, only a fraction of the staff would have access to the situation you describe so that sample didn't even include that entire hospital. 

In any group of people you'll find some who sleep around, cheat, etc. That doesn't mean ALL people in that group behave that way. I could say the same of business owners, CEO's etc that you say about medical people. And I'm sure it would be just as untrue.

I became a nurse to help people. My sex life doesn't enter into it at all except that I am occasionally asked to dress in my scrubs as some men find them sexy for some reason. LOL


----------



## Andy1001

notmyjamie said:


> Ouch.
> 
> I thought a smart guy like you would realize that you can't take such a small sample of the medical community and extrapolate that out to ALL medical people. Even in a small hospital, only a fraction of the staff would have access to the situation you describe so that sample didn't even include that entire hospital.
> 
> In any group of people you'll find some who sleep around, cheat, etc. That doesn't mean ALL people in that group behave that way. I could say the same of business owners, CEO's etc that you say about medical people. And I'm sure it would be just as untrue.
> 
> I became a nurse to help people. My sex life doesn't enter into it at all except that I am occasionally asked to dress in my scrubs as some men find them sexy for some reason. LOL


I made my decision and I never regretted it. >


----------



## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> I made my decision and I never regretted it. >


Fair enough.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Certain groups of people who end up working in the same place will end up behaving like animals. I’ve worked in 2 places like that. One a restaurant and one a manufacturing company. Both were just like some weird Love Island show. It was just the mix of certain employees personalities when they got together. Yes I was part of Love Island, lol.

But I can see how it was just a perfect storm and said little about these industries.

In fact I always heard the worst industry was health clubs.


----------



## Andy1001

Faithful Wife said:


> Certain groups of people who end up working in the same place will end up behaving like animals. I’ve worked in 2 places like that. One a restaurant and one a manufacturing company. Both were just like some weird Love Island show. It was just the mix of certain employees personalities when they got together. Yes I was part of Love Island, lol.
> 
> But I can see how it was just a perfect storm and said little about these industries.
> 
> In fact I always heard the worst industry was health clubs.


Hey! Don’t go getting personal. 😇


----------



## Elizabeth001

I’ve heard tales from a lot of my OLD connections that a good number of nurses they met were pill addicts. Not by any means saying that is the norm, but they are out there. I personally had an older sister that was banned from the profession due to addiction. 

OTOH...I had a friend a few years ago who was a nurse that complained that “everyone” who showed up in pain was someone looking for a “fix”. That scared the crap out of me. 

I once had a panic attack years ago and had failed to refill my Ativan script. That sent me to the ER which led me to a full on mental evaluation and I ended up agreeing to a voluntary stay at a psych ward before they would give me a friggin Ativan to calm down. Some random GYN had put me on birth control that was messing with my whole body and mind and I kept trying to tell anyone who was listening what the problem was. Stopped the BC and got my period on day 2 at the facility. Finally got a meeting with the shrink who told me plainly that my problem was physical and not mental. Nice!

So...in short, I would not date anyone from the medical field either. We all have our reason and if you are one of the good guys, thank GOD. We need you there!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

Andy1001 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Certain groups of people who end up working in the same place will end up behaving like animals. I’ve worked in 2 places like that. One a restaurant and one a manufacturing company. Both were just like some weird Love Island show. It was just the mix of certain employees personalities when they got together. Yes I was part of Love Island, lol.
> 
> But I can see how it was just a perfect storm and said little about these industries.
> 
> In fact I always heard the worst industry was health clubs.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Don’t go getting personal. 😇
Click to expand...

It’s just what I’ve heard. Wasn’t something I had any experience with. What have you heard? Lol

Actually I had a really weird thing happen at a gym once. I was in the hot tub with my exh which was by the pool. I got out to go in the women’s shower room and use the bathroom. When I was standing back up I happened to turn and look up, and above me one of the ceiling tiles drops all of a sudden from a position where it was propped open to suddenly being dropped back down into place.

There was clearly someone up there creeping me using the bathroom!

I grabbed my towel and went straight to the front desk and told them what happened. A staff person went in with me and I showed them which tile above the toilets, and then I went back out to the front desk. My ex was looking at me through the glass windows from the tub wondering what the heck was going on. I motioned for him to come out and join me. He grabbed his towel and did. I told him what happened.

By now the manager and some others were in the shower room going through it and poking their heads up in the tiles or whatever.

They eventually told me they didn’t see anything and they didn’t know how anyone could have gotten up there. I know what I saw and just told them hey, you do have a creep here whether you found out how he got up there or not.

We left that gym after that.


----------



## Andy1001

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s just what I’ve heard. Wasn’t something I had any experience with. What have you heard? Lol
> 
> Actually I had a really weird thing happen at a gym once. I was in the hot tub with my exh which was by the pool. I got out to go in the women’s shower room and use the bathroom. When I was standing back up I happened to turn and look up, and above me one of the ceiling tiles drops all of a sudden from a position where it was propped open to suddenly being dropped back down into place.
> 
> There was clearly someone up there creeping me using the bathroom!
> 
> I grabbed my towel and went straight to the front desk and told them what happened. A staff person went in with me and I showed them which tile above the toilets, and then I went back out to the front desk. My ex was looking at me through the glass windows from the tub wondering what the heck was going on. I motioned for him to come out and join me. He grabbed his towel and did. I told him what happened.
> 
> By now the manager and some others were in the shower room going through it and poking their heads up in the tiles or whatever.
> 
> They eventually told me they didn’t see anything and they didn’t know how anyone could have gotten up there. I know what I saw and just told them hey, you do have a creep here whether you found out how he got up there or not.
> 
> We left that gym after that.


I own a health studio.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Andy1001 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s just what I’ve heard. Wasn’t something I had any experience with. What have you heard? Lol
> 
> Actually I had a really weird thing happen at a gym once. I was in the hot tub with my exh which was by the pool. I got out to go in the women’s shower room and use the bathroom. When I was standing back up I happened to turn and look up, and above me one of the ceiling tiles drops all of a sudden from a position where it was propped open to suddenly being dropped back down into place.
> 
> There was clearly someone up there creeping me using the bathroom!
> 
> I grabbed my towel and went straight to the front desk and told them what happened. A staff person went in with me and I showed them which tile above the toilets, and then I went back out to the front desk. My ex was looking at me through the glass windows from the tub wondering what the heck was going on. I motioned for him to come out and join me. He grabbed his towel and did. I told him what happened.
> 
> By now the manager and some others were in the shower room going through it and poking their heads up in the tiles or whatever.
> 
> They eventually told me they didn’t see anything and they didn’t know how anyone could have gotten up there. I know what I saw and just told them hey, you do have a creep here whether you found out how he got up there or not.
> 
> We left that gym after that.
> 
> 
> 
> I own a health studio.
Click to expand...

1. Yes. I know. You’ve mentioned it a few times.

2. It’s called guy talk. Or ball busting, depending on who you ask.

3. These things still really happened.

4. Cheers! Your turn.


----------



## Red Sonja

Andy1001 said:


> Andy’s second rule of dating.
> No doctors!


I agree, except I will say no surgeons. My rule #1 is no actors ... bad news all around.


----------



## Andy1001

Red Sonja said:


> I agree, except I will say no surgeons. My rule #1 is no actors ... bad news all around.


My number one rule is no tattoos. I don’t care if Rosie Huntington, the three previous Miss Worlds along with the Dallas Cowboys cheerleading squad are waiting for me by the pool, if any of them have a tattoo I’m sending them home.


----------



## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> My number one rule is no tattoos. I don’t care if Rosie Huntington, the three previous Miss Worlds along with the Dallas Cowboys cheerleading squad are waiting for me by the pool, if any of them have a tattoo I’m sending them home.


I almost got a tattoo years ago. I was in the shop, waiting for my turn. I turned and asked my boyfriend at the time what he thought and he said "well, since you're asking, I despise the idea, I hate tattoos, but especially on a woman" That made me stop and think about it more. I ended up leaving without the tattoo. 

I'm now divorcing that guy and am dating yet another guy who hates tattoos. I guess I should thank my STBX. LOL


----------



## Andy1001

notmyjamie said:


> I almost got a tattoo years ago. I was in the shop, waiting for my turn. I turned and asked my boyfriend at the time what he thought and he said "well, since you're asking, I despise the idea, I hate tattoos, but especially on a woman" That made me stop and think about it more. I ended up leaving without the tattoo.
> 
> I'm now divorcing that guy and am dating yet another guy who hates tattoos. I guess I should thank my STBX. LOL


I canceled my wedding over a tattoo.


----------



## bkyln309

Andy1001 said:


> My number one rule is no tattoos. I don’t care if Rosie Huntington, the three previous Miss Worlds along with the Dallas Cowboys cheerleading squad are waiting for me by the pool, if any of them have a tattoo I’m sending them home.




I’m not a fan either! Yuck


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## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> I canceled my wedding over a tattoo.


Yikes. I guess you really hate them. My STBX would never have stopped me but since I opened the door to his opinion he gave it. It just made me think more about it and as I was on the fence it helped me see that I wasn't really ready. My friends were all getting them and I got swept up into it. My sister ended up getting one that day and it's ridiculous. It's of a cartoon character that nobody even knows today. Stupid. 

I almost got one again when I decided to leave the STBX. I think it was a "**** you" type thing. But honestly, I don't think tattoos are for me so I gave it some time and the urge went away. Started dating this new guy and somehow the topic came up. He asked me if I had one and got a huge grin when I said no. I think he feels about them just how you feel about them.


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## Andy1001

notmyjamie said:


> Yikes. I guess you really hate them. My STBX would never have stopped me but since I opened the door to his opinion he gave it. It just made me think more about it and as I was on the fence it helped me see that I wasn't really ready. My friends were all getting them and I got swept up into it. My sister ended up getting one that day and it's ridiculous. It's of a cartoon character that nobody even knows today. Stupid.
> 
> I almost got one again when I decided to leave the STBX. I think it was a "**** you" type thing. But honestly, I don't think tattoos are for me so I gave it some time and the urge went away. Started dating this new guy and somehow the topic came up. He asked me if I had one and got a huge grin when I said no. I think he feels about them just how you feel about them.


I own a health studio and sometimes if I call in I see these beautiful elegant young women with what looks like graffiti all over their bodies. I think that it’s a crying shame what these young women are doing to themselves just because it’s “hip”.
One of my staff has told me that the latest craze is a tattoo between the breasts which is supposedly the new “tramp stamp”.


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## Lila

Question to single people pertaining criminal records.... 

What is your cutoff for ignoring a man or woman's criminal history assuming they have lived an exemplary life since? 10 years? 20 years? 

For the ladies, would you overlook a first degree aggravated rape conviction over 25 years old?


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## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> For the ladies, would you overlook a first degree aggravated rape conviction over 25 years old?



Nope. No way would I ignore that. 



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## bkyln309

Lila said:


> Question to single people pertaining criminal records....
> 
> What is your cutoff for ignoring a man or woman's criminal history assuming they have lived an exemplary life since? 10 years? 20 years?
> 
> For the ladies, would you overlook a first degree aggravated rape conviction over 25 years old?




A record is a dealbreaker! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## notmyjamie

3Xnocharm said:


> Nope. No way would I ignore that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not in a million years would I ignore that. Rape is VERY hard to prosecute. So if it went so far as to result in a conviction there was something there. 

If he didn't do it, I feel sorry for him but no, I could not ignore that.


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## In Absentia

Red Sonja said:


> My rule #1 is no actors ... bad news all around.



Why? You can't tell if they are acting with you? :laugh:


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## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> I own a health studio and sometimes if I call in I see these beautiful elegant young women with what looks like graffiti all over their bodies. I think that it’s a crying shame what these young women are doing to themselves just because it’s “hip”.
> One of my staff has told me that the latest craze is a tattoo between the breasts which is supposedly the new “tramp stamp”.


My younger half sister is covered in them. She has a sleeve down one arm and her entire right thigh is also covered. It looks hideous to me. To each his own of course, but I hate the look. She's always begging for money on Facebook for rent or for her medications as she's walking around with at least $10K in ink on her body.

My daughter's friends all seem to be getting the side boob tattoos. Pick a saying and tattoo it along the side of your boob. Very sexy supposedly. Again, to each his own I guess. One of her friends tattoo'd the name and death date of a guy she barely knew. I'm sure her future partners will love looking down on her during sex and seeing another man's name tattoo'd on her boob. :surprise:


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## Blondilocks

notmyjamie said:


> My younger half sister is covered in them. She has a sleeve down one arm and her entire right thigh is also covered. It looks hideous to me. To each his own of course, but I hate the look. She's always begging for money on Facebook for rent or her medications as she's walking around with at least $10K in ink on her body.
> 
> My daughter's friends all seem to be getting the side boob tattoos. Pick a saying and tattoo it along the side of your boob. Very sexy supposedly. Again, to each his own I guess. One of her friends tattoo'd the name and death date of a guy she barely knew. I'm sure her future partners will love looking down on her during sex and seeing another man's name tattoo'd on her boob. :surprise:


Can kids get tattoos without their parents' permission? I'm thinking your daughter is under 18.


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## notmyjamie

Blondilocks said:


> Can kids get tattoos without their parents' permission? I'm thinking your daughter is under 18.


I'm not sure about other states, but where I live, you need your parent's permission prior to age 18. My oldest daughter is 19 so a lot of her friends have gotten tattoos already. My daughter has talked about it occasionally and I think she likes the idea of doing something that is so "in" right now but she can't make herself do it. I know her boyfriend doesn't like them so that is holding her back a bit and she also has a pretty bad needle phobia so that contributes as well. She will actually draw her own temporary tattoos sometimes. She's very talented and they look completely real. I freaked the first time she did it age 17. 

My 15yo asked me if I'd take her recently. Um, nope. You are not permanently marking your body at age 15. Not gonna happen on my watch. But a fair amount of her friends have one already!! Same thing with piercings. :surprise:


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## lifeistooshort

Andy1001 said:


> I own a health studio and sometimes if I call in I see these beautiful elegant young women with what looks like graffiti all over their bodies. I think that it’s a crying shame what these young women are doing to themselves just because it’s “hip”.
> One of my staff has told me that the latest craze is a tattoo between the breasts which is supposedly the new “tramp stamp”.


The guy I'm seeing says the same thing.....that he sees beautiful young women all tattooed up and he doesn't like it.

He did say a couple of small ones wouldn't be a deal breaker for him but he prefers none.

Neither of us have any.

I'm ok with a few meaningful ones on men....like military symbols (if they're well done and you've actually served), but I prefer none.


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## FeministInPink

I've dated several guys that have just one tattoo, and I might be the minority here, but to me, it was quite sexy. I wouldn't like full sleeves or a massive number of tattoos... just one or two. I think the only way I would be cool with that many tattoos is if it was a cultural thing, like for certain indigenous groups, tattoos are part of their culture. 

But I probably wouldn't end up dating a Maori dude from New Zealand, anyway!

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## notmyjamie

FeministInPink said:


> I've dated several guys that have just one tattoo, and I might be the minority here, but to me, it was quite sexy. I wouldn't like full sleeves or a massive number of tattoos... just one or two. I think the only way I would be cool with that many tattoos is if it was a cultural thing, like for certain indigenous groups, tattoos are part of their culture.
> 
> But I probably wouldn't end up dating a Maori dude from New Zealand, anyway!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I don't mind one or two regular sized tattoos on a guy if they're tasteful, military or family symbol or something. But once you get into the sleeve, or the entire chest or back being inked up I tap out. No thanks. I just don't like the look. As I said, to each his own...there are women who love that!


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## 3Xnocharm

I for one love tattoos on men, even heavily done like full sleeves. I don’t care much for them on the neck, and on the face is a no. I have four myself, technically five but one is covered. 



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## Andy1001

Tattoos are a permanent reminder of a temporary feeling.


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## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> Tattoos are a permanent reminder of a temporary feeling.


Perfect way to describe it. How I was feeling right after I left my husband was very temporary so I'm very glad I don't have that reminder on my skin to deal with daily for the rest of my life.


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## Faithful Wife

The Rock has beautiful tattoos on his beautiful huge arms. They look incredible on him. He is fairly light skinned black so the colors show up really well on him.

He would be just as hot without them but with them he’s just sexier. 

I don’t always like tatts. Some are great some not so much. I don’t think I would auto next anyone for tatts unless I simply did not like the tatts. Like something huge and dumb I would have to look at all the time.

There is a show called Bad Ink where they make horrible (or regrettable) tatts into something new. It’s really cool to see some old tatt that’s faded and was of something really dumb or ugly turn into something amazing.

My daughter is an artist, went to art school, but then recently changed directions with her type of art and became a tattoo artist. In our state there are quite a bit of rules and school compared to other states. She’s been licensed for about a year now and she is sooo good. She is raking in money too.

She now has a bunch of tatts and I don’t like some of them. But they are her deal, it’s her body and I will never say anything.

My son got his first tatt from his sister, so that was a sweet moment. I don’t know if he will get more or not but he loves his. I’m meh about his, I like it but it’s not my favorite. But them having that moment together was really great. I just felt good I convinced them both to wait until they were late 20’s before they picked something. 

My daughter won’t do tatts she thinks are dumb or ugly. She doesn’t do skulls and roses for instance. She will refer them to a colleague who does more of that kind of work. She doesn’t do tribal tatts, but if someone had an actual connection to a tribal design she will help them find an artist who will treat it respectfully and authentically.

A high school boyfriend of mine got a horrible tatt long ago on his arm of the Chevy emblem shape. It was mishaped and not centered. Then years later he tried to fix it by adding some dumb looking tribal type designs around it. Looks even worse. He sent me a picture of it and I didn’t say it but I honestly did not think it could have been made worse than it was but there it is, worse than it was before.

I have one small tatt on my ass which I’ve never regretted getting. No one sees it except lovers and I’ve had no complaints. It hurt so bad that I will never get another one. I had mine brightened up a few years ago which only took about 20 minutes and I could barely make it. I don’t really understand how people sit there for 8 hours in that much pain but apparently it hurt me more than it hurts them because wow. No way.


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## 3Xnocharm

My biggest one took about 4 1/2 hours... I did good until the last hour!


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## Andy1001

I was over at my gym today and I saw a woman with a tattoo that stopped me in my tracks. It was a large portrait of the Blessed Virgin. 
She had it on her ass/thigh and if she hadn’t been wearing short shorts you wouldn’t have seen the full tattoo. 
Now I could use a lot of words to describe this woman but virginal wouldn’t be one of them.


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## honcho

Faithful Wife said:


> The Rock has beautiful tattoos on his beautiful huge arms. They look incredible on him. He is fairly light skinned black so the colors show up really well on him.
> 
> He would be just as hot without them but with them he’s just sexier.
> 
> I don’t always like tatts. Some are great some not so much. I don’t think I would auto next anyone for tatts unless I simply did not like the tatts. Like something huge and dumb I would have to look at all the time.
> 
> There is a show called Bad Ink where they make horrible (or regrettable) tatts into something new. It’s really cool to see some old tatt that’s faded and was of something really dumb or ugly turn into something amazing.
> 
> My daughter is an artist, went to art school, but then recently changed directions with her type of art and became a tattoo artist. In our state there are quite a bit of rules and school compared to other states. She’s been licensed for about a year now and she is sooo good. She is raking in money too.
> 
> She now has a bunch of tatts and I don’t like some of them. But they are her deal, it’s her body and I will never say anything.
> 
> My son got his first tatt from his sister, so that was a sweet moment. I don’t know if he will get more or not but he loves his. I’m meh about his, I like it but it’s not my favorite. But them having that moment together was really great. I just felt good I convinced them both to wait until they were late 20’s before they picked something.
> 
> My daughter won’t do tatts she thinks are dumb or ugly. She doesn’t do skulls and roses for instance. She will refer them to a colleague who does more of that kind of work. She doesn’t do tribal tatts, but if someone had an actual connection to a tribal design she will help them find an artist who will treat it respectfully and authentically.
> 
> A high school boyfriend of mine got a horrible tatt long ago on his arm of the Chevy emblem shape. It was mishaped and not centered. Then years later he tried to fix it by adding some dumb looking tribal type designs around it. Looks even worse. He sent me a picture of it and I didn’t say it but I honestly did not think it could have been made worse than it was but there it is, worse than it was before.
> 
> I have one small tatt on my ass which I’ve never regretted getting. No one sees it except lovers and I’ve had no complaints. It hurt so bad that I will never get another one. I had mine brightened up a few years ago which only took about 20 minutes and I could barely make it. I don’t really understand how people sit there for 8 hours in that much pain but apparently it hurt me more than it hurts them because wow. No way.


I dated on woman who had tattoo on her ass, I knew she had it but didn't know what it was till the bedroom fun were about to begin, a heart with her ex''s name in it :frown2: it just killed the moment so to speak for me. She later got the heart filled in to cover the name but it looked terrible.


----------



## notmyjamie

honcho said:


> I dated on woman who had tattoo on her ass, I knew she had it but didn't know what it was till the bedroom fun were about to begin, a heart with her ex''s name in it :frown2: it just killed the moment so to speak for me. She later got the heart filled in to cover the name but it looked terrible.


And that is why one should never get a name tattoo'd on themselves unless it was of their kids' names. But even that can be risky. I worked with a woman who had a nice anklet type tattoo done of her 3 kids' names and some flowers. It actually looked really pretty. Too bad she unexpectedly got pregnant again a year later...whoops! No way to add the 4th name to the anklet.


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## Faithful Wife

honcho said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Rock has beautiful tattoos on his beautiful huge arms. They look incredible on him. He is fairly light skinned black so the colors show up really well on him.
> 
> He would be just as hot without them but with them he’s just sexier.
> 
> I don’t always like tatts. Some are great some not so much. I don’t think I would auto next anyone for tatts unless I simply did not like the tatts. Like something huge and dumb I would have to look at all the time.
> 
> There is a show called Bad Ink where they make horrible (or regrettable) tatts into something new. It’s really cool to see some old tatt that’s faded and was of something really dumb or ugly turn into something amazing.
> 
> My daughter is an artist, went to art school, but then recently changed directions with her type of art and became a tattoo artist. In our state there are quite a bit of rules and school compared to other states. She’s been licensed for about a year now and she is sooo good. She is raking in money too.
> 
> She now has a bunch of tatts and I don’t like some of them. But they are her deal, it’s her body and I will never say anything.
> 
> My son got his first tatt from his sister, so that was a sweet moment. I don’t know if he will get more or not but he loves his. I’m meh about his, I like it but it’s not my favorite. But them having that moment together was really great. I just felt good I convinced them both to wait until they were late 20’s before they picked something.
> 
> My daughter won’t do tatts she thinks are dumb or ugly. She doesn’t do skulls and roses for instance. She will refer them to a colleague who does more of that kind of work. She doesn’t do tribal tatts, but if someone had an actual connection to a tribal design she will help them find an artist who will treat it respectfully and authentically.
> 
> A high school boyfriend of mine got a horrible tatt long ago on his arm of the Chevy emblem shape. It was mishaped and not centered. Then years later he tried to fix it by adding some dumb looking tribal type designs around it. Looks even worse. He sent me a picture of it and I didn’t say it but I honestly did not think it could have been made worse than it was but there it is, worse than it was before.
> 
> I have one small tatt on my ass which I’ve never regretted getting. No one sees it except lovers and I’ve had no complaints. It hurt so bad that I will never get another one. I had mine brightened up a few years ago which only took about 20 minutes and I could barely make it. I don’t really understand how people sit there for 8 hours in that much pain but apparently it hurt me more than it hurts them because wow. No way.
> 
> 
> 
> I dated on woman who had tattoo on her ass, I knew she had it but didn't know what it was till the bedroom fun were about to begin, a heart with her ex''s name in it <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" ></a> it just killed the moment so to speak for me. She later got the heart filled in to cover the name but it looked terrible.
Click to expand...

Oh dear! Yeah no, I will never have the issue of anyone seeing another lovers name on my body. That would be so awful for all involved.

On the Bad Ink snow, there are just as many men as women who sadly make that same mistake, and there are always new girlfriends on the show saying “change that thing or I’m not gonna marry him” or whatever.

My tatt is never going to make anyone feel that it has any relevance to any other person or event in my life. It’s obviously just about me.


----------



## AVR1962

Andy1001 said:


> Andy’s second rule of dating.
> No doctors!


Dated a dentist for several months a few years ago...my how time flies! I really enjoyed his company. He did not push any physical on me, he truly got to know me. Looking back however, I think probably there was already another lady in the picture, more than likely a long distance lover. Every month he was flying "home" for a funeral. At the time I was thinking I had never known anyone who had so many friends and acquaintances who died in a such a short time. While I didn't pick up on that, I did pick up on him not introducing me to his family and when I asked him about it everything changed. He adored everything I did up until this point, sent me this loving texts several times a day and like a flash it all turned. No doubt I was groomed, he was narcissistic, a manipulative liar.

So tell me why Andy's second rule is no doctors. We have a 5th date planned for this week. I actually have just been having fun getting out and enjoying his company. I am not really putting alot of weight in this one. He has 3 kiddos ages 9-16 and after 36 years of having children under my roof I really do not want to go back to that. 

I had a second date with another gentleman, probably won't see him again. After a very enjoyable dinner and conversation he texted me and said he wanted to go home with me. I received the text when I got home. That creeped me out!


----------



## AVR1962

Andy1001 said:


> I’m not joking at all.
> Doctors are bad news, they are promiscuous with a god complex.
> And as for nurses........,


I see you answered my question.....yeah, I can see that.


----------



## AVR1962

Elizabeth001 said:


> I’ve heard tales from a lot of my OLD connections that a good number of nurses they met were pill addicts. Not by any means saying that is the norm, but they are out there. I personally had an older sister that was banned from the profession due to addiction.
> 
> OTOH...I had a friend a few years ago who was a nurse that complained that “everyone” who showed up in pain was someone looking for a “fix”. That scared the crap out of me.
> 
> I once had a panic attack years ago and had failed to refill my Ativan script. That sent me to the ER which led me to a full on mental evaluation and I ended up agreeing to a voluntary stay at a psych ward before they would give me a friggin Ativan to calm down. Some random GYN had put me on birth control that was messing with my whole body and mind and I kept trying to tell anyone who was listening what the problem was. Stopped the BC and got my period on day 2 at the facility. Finally got a meeting with the shrink who told me plainly that my problem was physical and not mental. Nice!
> 
> So...in short, I would not date anyone from the medical field either. We all have our reason and if you are one of the good guys, thank GOD. We need you there!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know someone who lost her nursing license because she got caught taking meds from the hospital she worked in. She was an addict.


----------



## AVR1962

notmyjamie said:


> What book is this? I'm curious!


Mars and Venus on a Date


----------



## Blondilocks

AVR1962 said:


> Dated a dentist for several months a few years ago...my how time flies! I really enjoyed his company. He did not push any physical on me, he truly got to know me. Looking back however, I think probably there was already another lady in the picture, more than likely a long distance lover. Every month he was flying "home" for a funeral. At the time I was thinking I had never known anyone who had so many friends and acquaintances who died in a such a short time. While I didn't pick up on that, I did pick up on him not introducing me to his family and when I asked him about it everything changed. He adored everything I did up until this point, sent me this loving texts several times a day and like a flash it all turned. No doubt I was groomed, he was narcissistic, a manipulative liar.
> 
> So tell me why Andy's second rule is no doctors. We have a 5th date planned for this week. I actually have just been having fun getting out and enjoying his company. I am not really putting alot of weight in this one. He has 3 kiddos ages 9-16 and after 36 years of having children under my roof I really do not want to go back to that.
> 
> I had a second date with another gentleman, probably won't see him again. After a very enjoyable dinner and conversation he texted me and said he wanted to go home with me. I received the text when I got home. That creeped me out!


IIRC, the other lady in the picture was his mommy. He was also ashamed of dating a white woman. There were red flags from the get-go with that one.


----------



## Andy1001

notmyjamie said:


> And that is why one should never get a name tattoo'd on themselves unless it was of their kids' names. But even that can be risky. I worked with a woman who had a nice anklet type tattoo done of her 3 kids' names and some flowers. It actually looked really pretty. Too bad she unexpectedly got pregnant again a year later...whoops! No way to add the 4th name to the anklet.


This woman was dating a guy call Billy Bonds. She got a tattoo on her ass to surprise him, a “B” on each cheek. 
They went to bed one night and she bent over in front of him to show the tattoo. To her surprise he stormed out of the bedroom and left her house. 
She rang him the next day and asked him what the problem was and did he not like the tattoo. 
“Who the hell is Bob” he said.


----------



## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> This woman was dating a guy call Billy Bonds. She got a tattoo on her ass to surprise him, a “B” on each cheek.
> They went to bed one night and she bent over in front of him to show the tattoo. To her surprise he stormed out of the bedroom and left her house.
> She rang him the next day and asked him what the problem was and did he not like the tattoo.
> “Who the hell is Bob” he said.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And now I need my inhaler!!!! :laugh:


----------



## Hexagon

Lila said:


> How old are you and what kind of woman are you hoping to attract?


45 and I have no idea.


----------



## Lila

Hexagon said:


> 45 and *I have no idea*.


That's probably the problem If you don't know what you are attracted to then you won't know how to attract it. Figure out what kind of fish you'd like to catch and then you'll know where to find it and what to use for lure.:wink2:


----------



## Not

Hexagon said:


> 45 and I have no idea.


I bet you know what you don’t want. Use that as your yard stick.


----------



## AVR1962

I feel beyond DONE!!!!!! I have followed the advise from the Mars and Venus book on dating and while I see some of that that works just tonight something happened that made me rethink this. I had received several texts from a man who I had met. He went on vacation to another state and was sending me pics of his vacation. We agreed when he got back that we'd do a wine tasting. I had not heard from him to I text him to see if he got back. In the text he tells me that he is dating someone. Really? Wow! I was not thinking this one was going to go anywhere but I guess I don't get it. He sent me these pics and texts, I replied but did not initiate. He was out of town this whole time and now that he is back he is officially dating someone? How does that happen?


----------



## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> I feel beyond DONE!!!!!! I have followed the advise from the Mars and Venus book on dating and while I see some of that that works just tonight something happened that made me rethink this. I had received several texts from a man who I had met. He went on vacation to another state and was sending me pics of his vacation. We agreed when he got back that we'd do a wine tasting. I had not heard from him to I text him to see if he got back. In the text he tells me that he is dating someone. Really? Wow! I was not thinking this one was going to go anywhere but I guess I don't get it. He sent me these pics and texts, I replied but did not initiate. He was out of town this whole time and now that he is back he is officially dating someone? How does that happen?


Lady, dear lady...


So the book would advise you that unless you have had a few dates (that were clearly dates and not just knowing each other or meeting once in person) then this guy should not even be on your radar.

I mean you can think about the what if’s and be happy, but until you are actually on a real, planned date with him, this is all just a light fantasy.

My single friends and I used to have a rule.

He doesn’t exist until after 5 dates.

This was because he may disappear after the first date. Or we may change our stance after the second date and not be sure of our feelings. Or he may go back to his ex unexpectedly after the 3rd date. And so on.

The point was that until enough dates have passed that we declared exclusivity with this guy, he simply should not take up any bandwidth in our thoughts other than “I wonder if this guy will exist” (end up on 5 or more dates with me).

By viewing it this way, we did not invest emotionally in people who would not be around long enough to be worth any investment.


----------



## Not

AVR1962 said:


> I feel beyond DONE!!!!!! I have followed the advise from the Mars and Venus book on dating and while I see some of that that works just tonight something happened that made me rethink this. I had received several texts from a man who I had met. He went on vacation to another state and was sending me pics of his vacation. We agreed when he got back that we'd do a wine tasting. I had not heard from him to I text him to see if he got back. In the text he tells me that he is dating someone. Really? Wow! I was not thinking this one was going to go anywhere but I guess I don't get it. He sent me these pics and texts, I replied but did not initiate. He was out of town this whole time and now that he is back he is officially dating someone? How does that happen?


I believe this happens often. My boyfriend was talking to two other women before he met me and broke it off with them after we had had a few dates. He had to be sure about me first. The reasons he gave for talking to two at once were that he just wasn't sure about either of them and they both seemed to have a touch of the crazy. 

And maybe, since you weren't initiating and only responding, he got the impression you weren't all that interested. You do say that you didn't think this one would go anywhere. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that.


----------



## Not

The trip with boyfriend was great, had a lot of fun and met/stayed with his family for ten days. We were in New Orleans last week Wednesday morning when the flooding happened. We made it out of the city before we got stuck. Expressways and roads were closed all over the place.

I've learned so much about relationships since I began dating. I was stuck in a marriage with a man who was very immature and couldn't cope with so many things. I'm learning there are some really great people out there who tackle life head on and who don't automatically assume the worst of others. I see now that I've adopted some similar negative views of people but those views have all been based on my experience with just one person and what has resulted is me not being able to fully open up to someone and trust them with my heart.

I've been thinking a lot lately about one of my opinions in particular. I'm constantly telling myself it takes a very long time to really get to know someone and I'm seeing that that perspective is based on my distrust of others but I'm rethinking all of this. There will always be people who lie and cheat but there are just as many who don't. There are others who are totally open from the get go and hide nothing. How do I want to live my life? Never trusting anyone until years have passed? Or do I trust myself to know that I recognize honesty/integrity when I see it and not second guess myself because I'm afraid they'll turn on me later? 

One night during vacation boyfriend tried hard to say something, sat there thinking about it for a few minutes like he was trying to find the right words. He finally said, I've got him 100%. I could list off so many things about him that are just awesome and a few that aren't but what matters most is that he's totally honest with me at all times and even more important he *wants* to be that open with me, even if it's something that isn't very flattering. He's seen me at my best and worst physically and mentally speaking (don't ask lol!) and he still gives me 100%. That intent, that's what I'm looking for.

I've found a really good one.


----------



## Blondilocks

@Not, how many times has he been married and why did his previous relationships fail?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

@Not, that is such a great update, thanks for sharing! I hope things continue to be positive for you!


----------



## Not

Blondilocks said:


> @Not, how many times has he been married and why did his previous relationships fail?


He's been married once, for ten years, and he's not positive as to why his wife left. He didn't want to divorce but she wouldn't do counseling. He thinks the strain of having a special needs child was part of it and the fact that his x is very religious and he isn't as much and also she became what he calls a 100 percenter, she gave every last bit of herself to the kids and home and they never did anything together and she never did anything for herself either. There are other smaller details that put a strain on the marriage but those are the big ones. 

His marriage was his first serious relationship and he didn't marry until he was 30.


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## 2&out

My vacation went great  I will not be having a house mate for at least a while longer. She is happy with the way things are and says while she wants to move in, she doesn't want to because she doesn't want things to change between us. We had this conversation early so it wasn't hanging over me/us during the vacation which made it especially fun and relaxing. She sure has a lot of energy. I can see the possibility of our 11 year span having an impact down the road. My adult kids think she's terrific. Their right. 

Nice to hear Not. You've been together about 3 months ? Try to keep your wits about you.


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## Lila

@Not so happy to hear your good news!!! So glad you have found a sweet and kind man that enhances your happiness. Cheers!
@2&out also glad to hear things are still going good with your girlfriend and that you are keeping a positive outlook on things.


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## Lila

I have to share an experience which is typical of my life. I was working out this afternoon and noticed an attractive guy looking straight at me. He sort of looked familiar but I couldn't place him exactly. So here I am trying to be really sneaky and stare at the guy without him noticing that I am staring. It was freaking hilarious because he had no such reservations. 

About 15 minutes into this I get a message on my dating app that said someone liked me. It was the gym guy! He recognized me from my profile photo and sent me a message that said "Hi" :laugh:. I started cracking up and responded with a "hi" back all the while shaking my head at him. I could not stop giggling like an idiot. I told him i was impressed he could connect the "cute" profile pics with the sweat drenched person standing in front of him. I gave him my number and we've been messaging for the last hour. Momma might have a date this weekend after all. :grin2:


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I have to share an experience which is typical of my life. I was working out this afternoon and noticed an attractive guy looking straight at me. He sort of looked familiar but I couldn't place him exactly. So here I am trying to be really sneaky and stare at the guy without him noticing that I am staring. It was freaking hilarious because he had no such reservations.
> 
> About 15 minutes into this I get a message on my dating app that said someone liked me. It was the gym guy! He recognized me from my profile photo and sent me a message that said "Hi" :laugh:. I started cracking up and responded with a "hi" back all the while shaking my head at him. I could not stop giggling like an idiot. I told him i was impressed he could connect the "cute" profile pics with the sweat drenched person standing in front of him. I gave him my number and we've been messaging for the last hour. Momma might have a date this weekend after all. :grin2:


Oh girl! That's like an IN PERSON and an online meet up - - at the same time!! Fun! :grin2:


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh girl! That's like an IN PERSON and an online meet up - - at the same time!! Fun! :grin2:


I wish online dating could work more like that. I could have sworn there was an app out there that did that. it would show up the profiles of people within a certain distance from you?

ETA: FW if you'd been there you would have been peeing your pants. It's one of those "oh crap, oh crap, he saw me staring.....is he looking away.....okay, now it's safe to stare"


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## Blondilocks

Not said:


> He's been married once, for ten years, and he's not positive as to why his wife left. He didn't want to divorce but she wouldn't do counseling. He thinks the strain of having a special needs child was part of it and the fact that his x is very religious and he isn't as much and also she became what he calls a 100 percenter, she gave every last bit of herself to the kids and home and they never did anything together and she never did anything for herself either. There are other smaller details that put a strain on the marriage but those are the big ones.
> 
> His marriage was his first serious relationship and he didn't marry until he was 30.


Is this the guy who has two kids who are 9 & 11? How active is he in their lives? Are you prepared to co-parent a special needs child?


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## ConanHub

Lila said:


> I have to share an experience which is typical of my life. I was working out this afternoon and noticed an attractive guy looking straight at me. He sort of looked familiar but I couldn't place him exactly. So here I am trying to be really sneaky and stare at the guy without him noticing that I am staring. It was freaking hilarious because he had no such reservations.
> 
> About 15 minutes into this I get a message on my dating app that said someone liked me. It was the gym guy! He recognized me from my profile photo and sent me a message that said "Hi" :laugh:. I started cracking up and responded with a "hi" back all the while shaking my head at him. I could not stop giggling like an idiot. I told him i was impressed he could connect the "cute" profile pics with the sweat drenched person standing in front of him. I gave him my number and we've been messaging for the last hour. Momma might have a date this weekend after all. :grin2:


That was a fun story! Good as a movie scene and very charming.:smile2:


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## Blondilocks

Lila said:


> I wish online dating could work more like that. I could have sworn there was an app out there that did that. it would show up the profiles of people within a certain distance from you?
> 
> ETA: FW if you'd been there you would have been peeing your pants. It's one of those "oh crap, oh crap, he saw me staring.....is he looking away.....okay, now it's safe to stare"


The next time you see a guy staring at you: open your arms wide and say "You want some of this?" while shaking your bootay.:grin2:

Hope you get lucky.>


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> I wish online dating could work more like that. I could have sworn there was an app out there that did that. it would show up the profiles of people within a certain distance from you?
> 
> ETA: FW if you'd been there you would have been peeing your pants. It's one of those "oh crap, oh crap, he saw me staring.....is he looking away.....okay, now it's safe to stare"


The app you're thinking of is Happn.

Good for you. I hope you get the date

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> Lady, dear lady...
> 
> 
> So the book would advise you that unless you have had a few dates (that were clearly dates and not just knowing each other or meeting once in person) then this guy should not even be on your radar.
> 
> I mean you can think about the what if’s and be happy, but until you are actually on a real, planned date with him, this is all just a light fantasy.
> 
> My single friends and I used to have a rule.
> 
> He doesn’t exist until after 5 dates.
> 
> This was because he may disappear after the first date. Or we may change our stance after the second date and not be sure of our feelings. Or he may go back to his ex unexpectedly after the 3rd date. And so on.
> 
> The point was that until enough dates have passed that we declared exclusivity with this guy, he simply should not take up any bandwidth in our thoughts other than “I wonder if this guy will exist” (end up on 5 or more dates with me).
> 
> By viewing it this way, we did not invest emotionally in people who would not be around long enough to be worth any investment.


I understand all of that. I do get it. Just tired of all the BS.


----------



## AVR1962

Not said:


> I believe this happens often. My boyfriend was talking to two other women before he met me and broke it off with them after we had had a few dates. He had to be sure about me first. The reasons he gave for talking to two at once were that he just wasn't sure about either of them and they both seemed to have a touch of the crazy.
> 
> And maybe, since you weren't initiating and only responding, he got the impression you weren't all that interested. You do say that you didn't think this one would go anywhere. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that.


Well, I think I am going to start making some contact rather than just responding. I wasn't interested in this particular man. I just thought it was strange that he said we'd go out when he got back in town, said he'd never been to a wine tasting and thought it sounded like fun. Like you said, he was probably texting with other women and because I really was interested I was not relying with much. I have a date tomorrow night with another gentleman that I have talked to a couple times and we got along over the phone so we'll see how that one goes.


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## Not

Blondilocks said:


> Is this the guy who has two kids who are 9 & 11? How active is he in their lives? Are you prepared to co-parent a special needs child?


Yes, he's got a 9 and 11 year old. He has them three days a week right now until he gets his own place. The divorce went on for two years and wasn't finalized until last month so he moved in with a friend of his until everything was finalized and he could then buy a house. He's kind of in limbo right now in a few places in his life and isn't sure that he wants to buy a house any time soon but I'm not concerned, there's no rush and I'm not ready to move in with anyone any time soon anyway. I like my place too much! 

His special needs child is the 11 year old and he's very high functioning. The strain on the marriage started during the time before there was a diagnosis and his boy began receiving therapy and medication to treat his condition. I'm not worried about that part, I'm more concerned with any future tantrums and being told "You're not my mom!" lol!


----------



## Not

AVR1962 said:


> Well, I think I am going to start making some contact rather than just responding. I wasn't interested in this particular man. I just thought it was strange that he said we'd go out when he got back in town, said he'd never been to a wine tasting and thought it sounded like fun. Like you said, he was probably texting with other women and because I really was interested I was not relying with much. I have a date tomorrow night with another gentleman that I have talked to a couple times and we got along over the phone so we'll see how that one goes.


That's the part about dating I didn't like. There are no rules and sometimes not even common courtesy. People can do whatever they want and it won't matter one bit whether or not we agree with how things are done. 

I hope your date with the new gentleman went well!


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## AVR1962

Not said:


> That's the part about dating I didn't like. There are no rules and sometimes not even common courtesy. People can do whatever they want and it won't matter one bit whether or not we agree with how things are done.
> 
> I hope your date with the new gentleman went well!


Over the weekend I had a talk with a gentleman and as I listened to him I realized that things I say are not interpreted the way I mean the words to come out of my mouth. I also found myself interpreting and assuming improperly as well and this really made me think. The Mars and Venus books talk about this and I do try to keep my mind open but I realize there is NO specific GUIDELINE that applies to ALL. We go to friends, counselors, family, and places like this trying to understand our current partner but none of these outsiders knows the other person or the dynamic between you and the partner. Some people are seriously in bad situations and cannot see it, they just know something is not "right." Honest communication between two people is so vital and we have to be careful with our interpretations and assumptions. We have to go the extra mile to understand where that other person is in their life and understand what they are dealing with.

I actually cancelled my date Saturday night as I was not feeling well.


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## Faithful Wife

@Lila we need an update!!!

Here is mine. Went on a couple more dates with the last one I mentioned here a couple weeks ago, and realized he was not for me. A good guy but he would have annoyed me after some time. He did not like my decision and is still trying to get some more of my time but I just know it’s not going anywhere so I will not waste either of our time.

It’s confusing for him because I can’t say exactly why. It’s just that I know his personality will eventually annoy me and there is no nice way to say such a thing. Especially since there is nothing wrong with him, it’s just a mix of our two personalities that won’t be a good mix. But since he can’t see that yet he is just confused.

In the interim, my exh was out of town for several weeks but just returned yesterday. Now that he is back I don’t really want to go on any new date for a bit because he and I will hang out together a lot over the next few weeks. 

And I have The Rock to keep my motor revved up.

Actually this might be all I need for a bit. Good company with the ex and good sex with the Rock. Unless a really amazing guy swooped in, I am not in any hurry to change things.


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## Lila

@Faithful Wife, It's been a busy couple of weeks for me. I spent last weekend with "August" at the lake on his boat. He's such a gorgeous, wonderful, loving man who I genuinely feel a lot of affection for but his life is complicated. Nevertheless, I do enjoy every minute I spend with him. 

I did go on several 1st meets with three guys from the app and agreed to a second date with one. I don't think there will be a third date unless it's as friends. 

"Salt and Pepper" (aka gym guy) came and went relatively quickly. He was looking for a FWB situation. At this point in my life  "August" is filling that role and he offers many more benefits than just sex. "Salt and Pepper" and I decided we could try being workout partners on occasion. 

I have been chatting with some other guys from the app but I am thinking about shutting it down again. Great guys with lots to offer but my heart just isn't into investing a whole lot energy into the process. 

On a different note.... I just finished reading "The Ugly Woman's Guide to Online Dating. What I Learned from 70 First Dates". Don't let the title fool you. It's an autobiographical account of the author's dating experience in her mid 40s following her divorce. That book hit home. I cried when she talked about her broken marriage and yearning for intimacy. I laughed at her descriptions of each of her 70 first dates. I "watched" her evolution from insecure person to the woman who had the balls to tell her 70th date (her future husband) that he was either going to be getting to know her exclusively or not at all. It's an amazing transformation story. I have decided to keep a dating journal like the author. Maybe I'll write my own book someday. At my rate, it'll be more like 150 first dates 😄.


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> @Faithful Wife, It's been a busy couple of weeks for me. I spent last weekend with "August" at the lake on his boat. He's such a gorgeous, wonderful, loving man who I genuinely feel a lot of affection for but his life is complicated. Nevertheless, I do enjoy every minute I spend with him.
> 
> I did go on several 1st meets with three guys from the app and agreed to a second date with one. I don't think there will be a third date unless it's as friends.
> 
> "Salt and Pepper" (aka gym guy) came and went relatively quickly. He was looking for a FWB situation. At this point in my life "August" is filling that role and he offers many more benefits than just sex. "Salt and Pepper" and I decided we could try being workout partners on occasion.
> 
> I have been chatting with some other guys from the app but I am thinking about shutting it down again. Great guys with lots to offer but my heart just isn't into investing a whole lot energy into the process.
> 
> On a different note.... I just finished reading "The Ugly Woman's Guide to Online Dating. What I Learned from 70 First Dates". Don't let the title fool you. It's an autobiographical account of the author's dating experience in her mid 40s following her divorce. That book hit home. I cried when she talked about her broken marriage and yearning for intimacy. I laughed at her descriptions of each of her 70 first dates. I "watched" her evolution from insecure person to the woman who had the balls to tell her 70th date (her future husband) that he was either going to be getting to know her exclusively or not at all. It's an amazing transformation story. I have decided to keep a dating journal like the author. Maybe I'll write my own book someday. At my rate, it'll be more like 150 first dates 😄.


I totally get it. I go on the apps for a week or two at a time. Some dates usually come from that and lots of fun chatting. If none of the dates turn into a thing I usually turn the app back off for weeks. Then I’ll get inspired or bored and hop back on.

Eventually I always turn up a good boyfriend. But it does take time and energy that sometimes I’m not willing to put in. I’m happy in my life right now for other reasons so that makes it easier.

I never get “lonely” anymore in that way that makes you wish you had someone right then and there. Which is cool. I’m still so happy to just be alone in my own place. 

I feel that I know somehow inside myself, that my Mr Right is coming for sure so I don’t have to stress it. It will happen so when it happens is less important. My time is so precious too that I know I will lose a lot of it once I meet him so in some ways I’m delaying it (or just not chasing it).

It still might be my ex h. Don’t know yet.

Random question, how do you feel about phone calls? I have realized I don’t like talking on the phone to a stranger so I don’t call them ever before meeting. But once in awhile I meet a guy who likes a phone call first. I will do it but it makes me uncomfortable due to being introverted, I guess. By the end of the call I’m always fine but I always start off a little panicked.

Then once dating, I don’t really want to talk on the phone much either. One of the things I could not get into with this last guy was that he would call me almost every day. I ignored most of the calls and then he would text me. He never seemed to mind that I didn’t want to talk but he still called the next day. I felt pressured to talk when I didn’t want to and this was one of the things that annoyed me that I couldn’t say to him. Because “you call too much for my liking” is just sort of mean, and for some girl who longs to have more phone communication he will be a great match. So it was not a bad thing, just doesn’t work for me.

Ideally I would talk on the phone for a short call maybe once a week, but see each other 3 days a week and lots of texting (which can ebb and flow too, it doesn’t have to be constant).


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally get it. I go on the apps for a week or two at a time. Some dates usually come from that and lots of fun chatting. If none of the dates turn into a thing I usually turn the app back off for weeks. Then I’ll get inspired or bored and hop back on.
> 
> Eventually I always turn up a good boyfriend. But it does take time and energy that sometimes I’m not willing to put in. I’m happy in my life right now for other reasons so that makes it easier.


I think that's why I'm over the app. I signed up for it on a day I was bored just to see what it was all about. It takes a lot more energy than I'm willing to invest right now. I have found various ways to get my needs met so looking for Mr. Right is not as important as it once was. 



> I never get “lonely” anymore in that way that makes you wish you had someone right then and there. Which is cool. I’m still so happy to just be alone in my own place.
> 
> I feel that I know somehow inside myself, that my Mr Right is coming for sure so I don’t have to stress it. It will happen so when it happens is less important. My time is so precious too that I know I will lose a lot of it once I meet him so in some ways I’m delaying it (or just not chasing it).
> 
> It still might be my ex h. Don’t know yet.


"Not chasing it" is exactly the right words. 



> Random question, how do you feel about phone calls? I have realized I don’t like talking on the phone to a stranger so I don’t call them ever before meeting. But once in awhile I meet a guy who likes a phone call first. I will do it but it makes me uncomfortable due to being introverted, I guess. By the end of the call I’m always fine but I always start off a little panicked.
> 
> Then once dating, I don’t really want to talk on the phone much either. One of the things I could not get into with this last guy was that he would call me almost every day. I ignored most of the calls and then he would text me. He never seemed to mind that I didn’t want to talk but he still called the next day. I felt pressured to talk when I didn’t want to and this was one of the things that annoyed me that I couldn’t say to him. Because “you call too much for my liking” is just sort of mean, and for some girl who longs to have more phone communication he will be a great match. So it was not a bad thing, just doesn’t work for me.
> 
> Ideally I would talk on the phone for a short call maybe once a week, but see each other 3 days a week and lots of texting (which can ebb and flow too, it doesn’t have to be constant).


I prefer telephone conversations to texting. It's just easier for me to talk than text. I can multitask while on the telephone (driving in traffic, cooking dinner, gardening, working out) whereas I can't do much else while messaging on the phone. Plus I can get a really good feel for someone over the phone. Those pauses in the conversation when asked a direct question are priceless. So are their tone of voice and cadence.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I hopped on bumble (out of boredom) and something I see sometimes is conservative men's profiles complaining that women won't date them. Today a guy had this as his entire profile description:

"Don't understand closed minded people on here. I see so many that don't want anything to do with you if you don't see things their way. So as for me I don't care who you vote for and what you believe. Your (sic) entitled to your opinion and my job is to respect it as you do mine. Not here to change people".

Ha! Yeah, no.

What I don't understand is why a man like this does not understand why a woman like me doesn't want to date him. 

If the same guy, or ALL OF the conservative guys in my area all said "sorry ladies, I don't date liberals" myself and all of the liberal women would be fine with that. We are not butt hurt by that. We don't want to be with someone of completely opposite values, so if you next us due to our political views, WE ARE GOOD WITH THAT. Why do they then get all whiny about it? Ok so you don't care who I vote for, but that does not mean I don't care who you vote for. If that makes you a more open minded person than I am, I'm good with that too! You win, you are so much more open minded than me, here is your trophy.

Now as for a date with you? Nope. I'm good with being closed minded and only dating people who I share aligned values with. I have never once thought "oh he is so hot, wish he wasn't a conservative!" Quite the opposite. I go straight to their political section, read that first, if he's conservative I don't even bother looking at the pictures. Next.

Thankfully for me, the majority of daters in my pool are liberal so there is no shortage of guys to date based on political stuff. 

It's funny, some guys have taken to saying they are "moderate" rather than conservative, apparently hoping some of the liberal women will accept that. Personally, if they indicate they are moderate I immediately assume they are conservative and are just hoping to get a date in this liberal mecca. I next them immediately, too.


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## 3Xnocharm

I dont understand the mindset of men (or women) who make the choice to complain openly like that on a dating profile... NO ONE is going to want to date you when you do that! Whether your views line up or not! Blatant stupidity is unattractive to other people, PERIOD. Morons.


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## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> I dont understand the mindset of men (or women) who make the choice to complain openly like that on a dating profile... NO ONE is going to want to date you when you do that! Whether your views line up or not! Blatant stupidity is unattractive to other people, PERIOD. Morons.


I'm not sure....I'm guessing that possibly the (relatively few) conservative women around here feel somewhat the same as that guy, and one might jump on that guy's band wagon because she agrees with the rant he made and has experienced the same herself.


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## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not sure....I'm guessing that possibly the (relatively few) conservative women around here feel somewhat the same as that guy, and one might jump on that guy's band wagon because she agrees with the rant he made and has experienced the same herself.


LOL even if I experienced the same, this makes him a NOPE. :laugh:


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## bkyln309

I am a conservative libertarian and would state it openly on the sites because most liberals are intolerant of dating outside their radical ideology. I voted for Trump and will again with no apologies.

As someone whose family was in the political realm for years, I don’t discount the rarer more moderate Democratic base for dating purposes. My family represents diverse sides of the aisles and we get along great. But debate has been replaced with name calling and most can not respect and accept the viewpoint of those who think differently than them. It’s a sad state but it is what it is.
.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> I hopped on bumble (out of boredom) and something I see sometimes is conservative men's profiles complaining that women won't date them. Today a guy had this as his entire profile description:
> 
> 
> 
> "Don't understand closed minded people on here. I see so many that don't want anything to do with you if you don't see things their way. So as for me I don't care who you vote for and what you believe. Your (sic) entitled to your opinion and my job is to respect it as you do mine. Not here to change people".
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! Yeah, no.
> 
> 
> 
> What I don't understand is why a man like this does not understand why a woman like me doesn't want to date him.
> 
> 
> 
> If the same guy, or ALL OF the conservative guys in my area all said "sorry ladies, I don't date liberals" myself and all of the liberal women would be fine with that. We are not butt hurt by that. We don't want to be with someone of completely opposite values, so if you next us due to our political views, WE ARE GOOD WITH THAT. Why do they then get all whiny about it? Ok so you don't care who I vote for, but that does not mean I don't care who you vote for. If that makes you a more open minded person than I am, I'm good with that too! You win, you are so much more open minded than me, here is your trophy.
> 
> 
> 
> Now as for a date with you? Nope. I'm good with being closed minded and only dating people who I share aligned values with. I have never once thought "oh he is so hot, wish he wasn't a conservative!" Quite the opposite. I go straight to their political section, read that first, if he's conservative I don't even bother looking at the pictures. Next.
> 
> 
> 
> Thankfully for me, the majority of daters in my pool are liberal so there is no shortage of guys to date based on political stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny, some guys have taken to saying they are "moderate" rather than conservative, apparently hoping some of the liberal women will accept that. Personally, if they indicate they are moderate I immediately assume they are conservative and are just hoping to get a date in this liberal mecca. I next them immediately, too.


If someone lists conservative or clearly is a Trump supporter, I will next them as well. I know I will never be compatible with someone whose beliefs are so antithetical to my own... especially if they are voting for politicians who are hacking away at my rights and freedom as a woman. My biggest problem with conservative men, when it comes to dating, is that in my experience, they are hell bent on convincing me that my belief system is wrong and in need of correction. I don't want to be with someone who wants to convert me, because that is someone who can't accept and love me for who I am. That is someone who wants to change me--he doesn't want to encourage me to be true to myself, he wants to mold me into his image.

That being said, where I live, there is a huge divide right now, and there is NO middle ground. I would be ok with dating a moderate, depending on how he defines moderate. Moderate conservatism can be logical, and tends to be more open to compromise and bipartisan cooperation (unlike the present administration). I've had some great conversations and exchange of ideas with moderate conservatives, because in my experience, they've actually listened to what I've had to say, and therefore I am much more open to what they have to say as well.

Oddly enough, while some people view libertarians as ultra conservative, on some level, I think I could connect with a libertarian, because at least a libertarian isn't trying to police my sexuality and restrict my reproductive freedom. There are other libertarian ideas that I can't get behind, but at least there is SOME common ground.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## UpsideDownWorld11

I doubt there are many Men that will put up with feminist drivel for very long. Maybe some effeminate millenial types. They are still so recently removed from government think tanks to believe such nonsense. In fact, if your political views come first, then just take yourself off the market and spend some time thinking of yourself as a human first.


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> If someone lists conservative or clearly is a Trump supporter, I will next them as well. I know I will never be compatible with someone whose beliefs are so antithetical to my own... especially if they are voting for politicians who are hacking away at my rights and freedom as a woman. My biggest problem with conservative men, when it comes to dating, is that in my experience, they are hell bent on convincing me that my belief system is wrong and in need of correction. I don't want to be with someone who wants to convert me, because that is someone who can't accept and love me for who I am. That is someone who wants to change me--he doesn't want to encourage me to be true to myself, he wants to mold me into his image.
> 
> That being said, where I live, there is a huge divide right now, and there is NO middle ground. I would be ok with dating a moderate, depending on how he defines moderate. Moderate conservatism can be logical, and tends to be more open to compromise and bipartisan cooperation (unlike the present administration). I've had some great conversations and exchange of ideas with moderate conservatives, because in my experience, they've actually listened to what I've had to say, and therefore I am much more open to what they have to say as well.
> 
> Oddly enough, while some people view libertarians as ultra conservative, on some level, I think I could connect with a libertarian, because at least a libertarian isn't trying to police my sexuality and restrict my reproductive freedom. There are other libertarian ideas that I can't get behind, but at least there is SOME common ground.


I guess I have not ever gone on a date with one, now that I think about it! Because as you were describing how they would want to change your mind, I realized I have never heard any kind of words to that effect from a guy. I have successfully avoided dating any of them, hurrah!

However, the politics section here shows me quite clearly what most conservatives would think of my ideals. They bash liberals constantly over there. So much that I can't quite understand how the board is so heavily weighted to conservatives (unless like me, the liberals just don't bother posting in politics because it is basically just a lib bash every day). When some of the guys on the dating apps are saying "hey I don't care who you voted for and am not trying to change you" all I can do is hear all the conservative posters in politics in my head and then imagine some dude saying that crap to my face.....UGH. They say they don't want to change you but that's just because they want to mock you. And the dudes can't figure out why a lib woman wouldn't be down for some fresh mocking? Give me a break.

One of my ex's was very political, but mostly left leaning. He would watch all the news, all the channels, all day long, then read everything too, then want to discuss every thing every day. I really didn't enjoy that, so eventually I just told him that talking about politics is boring to me, let's just stay on other subjects. He considered me a beatnik peace loving hippie and thought that was why I didn't want to discuss that stuff. Um no dude, it's because you are filling your mind with what all these stupid talking heads say all day and it is not exciting for me to hear their words regurgitated, whether what they were saying was aligned with my ideals or not.

I am fine with the divide and no middle ground. It did not used to be this way. But here we are. I'll stay on my side of the line, thanks.

I actually would date a conservative or republican, as long as he was not for Trump and could see him for what he is. There are a few of those out there. I likely will not ever meet one around here anyway.

Also since lately I've been dating mostly black guys, it doesn't come up as much because they are mostly liberals around here (not sure about elsewhere). The funny thing about straight black guys is that they are a little bit more homophobic than straight white guys. Which I find hilarious. I schooled one the other day because he used the word "***" in a derogatory way. I said you know, that's kind of like the N word now, it isn't really acceptable. Then he said "well a guy tried to corner me once and would have sexually assaulted me but I got away". I said "well that's the same as saying a black guy tried to rape me once so I have the right to call all black people *******". He literally took a step back and said "omg, you are right, that is the same!" He thanked me later for pointing that out and said he would try to soften his fear of gay men and re-examine it. I don't wear my pride badge on my sleeve, so a lot of guys will shoot from the hip with their actual thoughts on LGBT issues and they won't think twice about whether it would offend me or not. Which is good, because I want to see people's actual behavior not their "pretend to be what you are not to impress the girl" behavior.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I doubt there are many Men that will put up with feminist drivel for very long. Maybe some effeminate millenial types. They are still so recently removed from government think tanks to believe such nonsense. In fact, if your political views come first, then just take yourself off the market and spend some time thinking of yourself as a human first.


Your words are the perfect example of why I don't want to date anyone like you. Thanks.


----------



## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> I dont understand the mindset of men (or women) who make the choice to complain openly like that on a dating profile... NO ONE is going to want to date you when you do that! Whether your views line up or not! Blatant stupidity is unattractive to other people, PERIOD. Morons.


By the way Miss 3X....do we have an update from you? I was almost afraid to ask because I fear that since you haven't posted one, maybe you are back with him. Please tell us you are not.  Or do you have an update elsewhere?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt there are many Men that will put up with feminist drivel for very long. Maybe some effeminate millenial types. They are still so recently removed from government think tanks to believe such nonsense. In fact, if your political views come first, then just take yourself off the market and spend some time thinking of yourself as a human first.
> 
> 
> 
> Your words are the perfect example of why I don't want to date anyone like you. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Cool. I prefer humans than walking party platforms, regardless of their affilition. Feminists are just an example. They just seem like sad people looking for something to whine about no matter what the reality of the situation is.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Cool. I prefer humans than walking party platforms, regardless of their affilition. Feminists are just an example. They just seem like sad people looking for something to whine about no matter what the reality of the situation is.


Another great example of words that have no purpose other than to mock others. Thanks again.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. I prefer humans than walking party platforms, regardless of their affilition. Feminists are just an example. They just seem like sad people looking for something to whine about no matter what the reality of the situation is.
> 
> 
> 
> Another great example of words that have no purpose other than to mock others. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Your welcome as always.


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt there are many Men that will put up with feminist drivel for very long. Maybe some effeminate millenial types. They are still so recently removed from government think tanks to believe such nonsense. In fact, if your political views come first, then just take yourself off the market and spend some time thinking of yourself as a human first.
> 
> 
> 
> Your words are the perfect example of why I don't want to date anyone like you. Thanks.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY.

(Oh, and BTW, @UpsideDownWorld11 I'm a feminist because I believe the radical concept that I am a human.)

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

FeministInPink said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt there are many Men that will put up with feminist drivel for very long. Maybe some effeminate millenial types. They are still so recently removed from government think tanks to believe such nonsense. In fact, if your political views come first, then just take yourself off the market and spend some time thinking of yourself as a human first.
> 
> 
> 
> Your words are the perfect example of why I don't want to date anyone like you. Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> EXACTLY.
> 
> (Oh, and BTW, @UpsideDownWorld11 I'm a feminist because I believe the radical concept that I am a human.)
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Having a vagina doesn't make you human. Past abuses suffered by others doesn't make you a victim. What do you hope to gain for feminism when there is already equality? Tell me about your inequities. Unless you live in Iran or some other 3rd world country, equality of rights, equality of work and yes equality of pay have been realized. You can't gain 'more equality' without impeding on others rights. Unless you wish to breed hostility. This is why groups like MRA were formed.


----------



## FeministInPink

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Cool. I prefer humans than walking party platforms, regardless of their affilition. Feminists are just an example. They just seem like sad people looking for something to whine about no matter what the reality of the situation is.


Why don't you practice what you preach, and get to know one of these "walking political platforms" as a human being, rather than stuffing them into a box of preconceived notions?

Ask them why they are a feminist, and really listen to their answers. Listen to their stories of their experiences, and believe them. If you really listen and understand what they have experienced as human beings, maybe you'll come to see that feminism isn't drivel. It comes from a very personal place.

Of course, you might have a difficult time accomplishing this, because of your present attitude.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

FeministInPink said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. I prefer humans than walking party platforms, regardless of their affilition. Feminists are just an example. They just seem like sad people looking for something to whine about no matter what the reality of the situation is.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you practice what you preach, and get to know one of these "walking political platforms" as a human being, rather than stuffing them into a box of preconceived notions?
> 
> Ask them why they are a feminist, and really listen to their answers. Listen to their stories of their experiences, and believe them. If you really listen and understand what they have experienced as human beings, maybe you'll come to see that feminism isn't drivel. It comes from a very personal place.
> 
> Of course, you might have a difficult time accomplishing this, because of your present attitude.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What do you want from feminism? Like what problem do you see and what is the solution to the problem?

I'm not trying to be provacative, I really am curious.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What do you want from feminism? Like what problem do you see and what is the solution to the problem?
> 
> I'm not trying to be provacative, I really am curious.


FIP and upside....can we open a new thread for that discussion? Otherwise what will happen is that we (the actual single and dating people on this thread) will get in trouble for thread jacking.


----------



## In Absentia

How did you start dating again? Dating websites/apps? Going out with old friends? Joining activities? I'm lost. I must say I'm not very keen on dating websites... having said that, it's probably too early for me, since I just started detaching, which I'm finding a lot harder than I though... :frown2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

In Absentia said:


> How did you start dating again? Dating websites/apps? Going out with old friends? Joining activities? I'm lost. I must say I'm not very keen on dating websites... having said that, it's probably too early for me, since I just started detaching, which I'm finding a lot harder than I though... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" ></a>


It’s too soon. But when you are actually ready we will be here to guide and help! Don’t worry about it for now just trust that when you are ready, it will be a fun thing.


----------



## In Absentia

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s too soon. But when you are actually ready we will be here to guide and help! Don’t worry about it for now just trust that when you are ready, it will be a fun thing.


Yes, I'm aware it's too early. I'm just thinking about the future. It's a way of detaching... :smile2:


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

In Absentia said:


> How did you start dating again? Dating websites/apps? Going out with old friends? Joining activities? I'm lost. I must say I'm not very keen on dating websites... having said that, it's probably too early for me, since I just started detaching, which I'm finding a lot harder than I though... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" ></a>


How old are you?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

In Absentia said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s too soon. But when you are actually ready we will be here to guide and help! Don’t worry about it for now just trust that when you are ready, it will be a fun thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm aware it's too early. I'm just thinking about the future. It's a way of detaching... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
Click to expand...

Sex with other women helps you to detach. Just avoid relationships for awhile or forever 🙂.


----------



## Faithful Wife

In Absentia said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s too soon. But when you are actually ready we will be here to guide and help! Don’t worry about it for now just trust that when you are ready, it will be a fun thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm aware it's too early. I'm just thinking about the future. It's a way of detaching... <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
Click to expand...

Cool to think about the future, but try not to worry about the steps needed to get there. For now just picture a future where you get to meet some nice women and go on some adventures. It’s too overwhelming to try to imagine everything between now and then but yes, be looking forward to a better future.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> By the way Miss 3X....do we have an update from you? I was almost afraid to ask because I fear that since you haven't posted one, maybe you are back with him. Please tell us you are not.  Or do you have an update elsewhere?


I figured one of you would poke me sooner or later LOL! 

No, we are not back together. BUT.. we have been spending time together, going out once or twice a week, and we went to a concert together. (planned long ago) I have only had him over one time since the split. He is doing a good job getting himself together, I think the break up was a good kick in the butt to get him motivated for himself. He has quit smoking completely, and he has started a new job that he seems to really like. Its more money than before.. still not a lot, but a step up at least. He is keeping his hair cut and just looks nicer and healthier in general. He is still making an effort towards me, and I am just not sure how I am feeling about everything. For the first time I think ever, I cant understand or describe how I am feeling. I love him, and the thought of him with someone else still hurts me. I am still attracted to him, but honestly there doesnt seem to be any passion or desire on my side at this point. He is finally being loving and affectionate like I have always wanted (expected) but I am having a bit of a hard time reciprocating right now. I am going along to see where this goes for the time being. This is all new for me, to be so unsure of how I feel.


----------



## minimalME

Yes, by all means, go out into the world and use as many women as possible to get over your failed marriage. :loser:



UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Sex with other women helps you to detach. Just avoid relationships for awhile or forever.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

minimalME said:


> Yes, by all means, go out into the world and use as many women as possible to get over your failed marriage. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/loser.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Loser" ></a>
> 
> 
> 
> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sex with other women helps you to detach. Just avoid relationships for awhile or forever.
Click to expand...

Can't use those who want to be used.


----------



## Blondilocks

3Xnocharm said:


> I figured one of you would poke me sooner or later LOL!
> 
> No, we are not back together. BUT.. we have been spending time together, going out once or twice a week, and we went to a concert together. (planned long ago) I have only had him over one time since the split. He is doing a good job getting himself together, I think the break up was a good kick in the butt to get him motivated for himself. He has quit smoking completely, and he has started a new job that he seems to really like. Its more money than before.. still not a lot, but a step up at least. He is keeping his hair cut and just looks nicer and healthier in general. He is still making an effort towards me, and I am just not sure how I am feeling about everything. For the first time I think ever, I cant understand or describe how I am feeling. I love him, and the thought of him with someone else still hurts me. I am still attracted to him, but honestly there doesnt seem to be any passion or desire on my side at this point. He is finally being loving and affectionate like I have always wanted (expected) but I am having a bit of a hard time reciprocating right now. I am going along to see where this goes for the time being. This is all new for me, to be so unsure of how I feel.


So, how is this different from before (other than the haircut and new job)? You're still in limbo. It took you kicking him in the nuts for him to make a minimal effort. That sounds like fun for the rest of your life (not).


----------



## In Absentia

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> How old are you?


A young 56... :laugh:


----------



## In Absentia

minimalME said:


> to get over your failed marriage. :loser:


I wouldn't call it a "failed marriage"... ok, it did fail, but it died of natural causes, so to speak... :smile2: although not quite a conscious uncoupling... more unconscious... :laugh:


----------



## In Absentia

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Sex with other women helps you to detach.



Sex? :surprise: I'll have to learn that thing all over again... :|


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

In Absentia said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How old are you?
> 
> 
> 
> A young 56...
Click to expand...

Well I had most of my success on Tinder but was in my mid 30's. Not sure the success rate on there for those in their 50's. If you are an extrovert you probably will do good in more social situations. But then you run the risk of getting into relationships unless you frequent seedy bars 🙂, so might want to avoid those avenues for now.


----------



## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I figured one of you would poke me sooner or later LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> No, we are not back together. BUT.. we have been spending time together, going out once or twice a week, and we went to a concert together. (planned long ago) I have only had him over one time since the split. He is doing a good job getting himself together, I think the break up was a good kick in the butt to get him motivated for himself. He has quit smoking completely, and he has started a new job that he seems to really like. Its more money than before.. still not a lot, but a step up at least. He is keeping his hair cut and just looks nicer and healthier in general. He is still making an effort towards me, and I am just not sure how I am feeling about everything. For the first time I think ever, I cant understand or describe how I am feeling. I love him, and the thought of him with someone else still hurts me. I am still attracted to him, but honestly there doesnt seem to be any passion or desire on my side at this point. He is finally being loving and affectionate like I have always wanted (expected) but I am having a bit of a hard time reciprocating right now. I am going along to see where this goes for the time being. This is all new for me, to be so unsure of how I feel.


He's the same guy, just with a different haircut and a different job. It takes more than a makeover to really change.

Remember that.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well I had most of my success on Tinder but was in my mid 30's. Not sure the success rate on there for those in their 50's. If you are an extrovert you probably will do good in more social situations. But then you run the risk of getting into relationships unless you frequent seedy bars 🙂, so might want to avoid those avenues for now.


Thanks for the advice! :grin2:


----------



## Elizabeth001

3Xnocharm said:


> I figured one of you would poke me sooner or later LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> No, we are not back together. BUT.. we have been spending time together, going out once or twice a week, and we went to a concert together. (planned long ago) I have only had him over one time since the split. He is doing a good job getting himself together, I think the break up was a good kick in the butt to get him motivated for himself. He has quit smoking completely, and he has started a new job that he seems to really like. Its more money than before.. still not a lot, but a step up at least. He is keeping his hair cut and just looks nicer and healthier in general. He is still making an effort towards me, and I am just not sure how I am feeling about everything. For the first time I think ever, I cant understand or describe how I am feeling. I love him, and the thought of him with someone else still hurts me. I am still attracted to him, but honestly there doesnt seem to be any passion or desire on my side at this point. He is finally being loving and affectionate like I have always wanted (expected) but I am having a bit of a hard time reciprocating right now. I am going along to see where this goes for the time being. This is all new for me, to be so unsure of how I feel.




You’re looping the circle again. 

Too little too late. You know he’ll be a good boy for a while. Rinse and repeat. 

He ain’t the one and you know it. Aren’t we too old to waste time girl? I know I am!

 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

Had a really great date last night! Best one in a long time! @FeministInPink will probably understand when I say, this guy is a special gem because he is "into" my very private and personal kink, one which very few people are into (therefore I cannot just date any random kinkster and be fulfilled in that way.) In fact, he is into it but hasn't tried it yet so I get to pop his cherry. Whee!!!

Please don't ask, I can't share what it is. But it is fun and no, it is probably not what you think (no matter what you think it's probably not that). 

We are definitely into each other besides this fun thing though, because we just wouldn't get into this thing together unless we were really into someone to begin with. Like if I was luke warm about him as a person or date, I would not have even discussed any of this with him. During the date we were having so much fun talking about the future ways we can play with this, we stopped in the middle of our drink and got in my car and I took him to a sexy store and we went through all of the options and discussed what items we would need for this fun adventure.

He says he has plenty of disposable income for this fun ride, which is great because all my disposable income goes to my race car habit and I don't have extra for expensive sex stuff at this time. 0

I had a Fetlife profile a few years ago which was inactive. We started talking about profiles, he has one too, I suddenly realized.....you know what? I think we are/were already friends on FL!!! I popped my profile back open right then and there and sure enough, we are friends. We friended each other 3 years ago, but we did not PM each other or have any other interaction than that. I don't know how I possibly remembered his profile and he doesn't remember mine after he looked again. We don't remember friending each other or how that happened but we have 1 mutual friend (who neither of us knows personally). That was so cool!

Can't wait for more of this!

on a separate note....

I stalked my ex-boyfriend the other day on Facebook, which I had not done for several months. We are not friends on FB since we broke up, so I can't really see much. But it did say he changed his status to "in a relationship" in April this year. So in the comments on that update, someone asked "with who?" and he tagged his new lady. So I was able to go stalk her page, and she seemed really cool. I was immediately very happy for him and her and I hope she is as cool as she looks. He was/is an awesome guy and I do not want to get back together with him, but I do wish I could just know about his life. Anyway, based on appearances, they look great and if things are going well I know he will want to marry her soon. He wants to be married again, which was the main reason we could not forge a future together (I'll never get married again). Super happy for him and her too!


----------



## 2&out

The no way A-hole guy update 

Had what was almost first *real* fight with GF last weekend. One of the things that being with me pretty much requires is a love for cars - or very high tolerance for hearing about. She has the first. She's got great taste - of course - she's with me ! LOL. This car had a for sale sign on it at a car show we were at. I saw/observed how she looked at it. I talked to the owner. I drove. I had her drive "just for fun". Her look doing so said it all. I asked if she liked it (even though I knew). I pulled her aside and told her if the price is right I am going to buy for her. And then... NO !! You can't do that! I won't accept it ! NONONO. Ummm... excuse me ? Are you telling me what I can / can't do ? Are you telling me I can't buy something for you if I want to ? Do you want to go there ??. Make me feel married/get permission ? I reminded her that when I give something that is what I do - no strings attached. She has seen/knows that is true. I told her I don't think it will be as expensive as she might think.

And I then bought - for IMHO really cheap for such a bit**in car. We went and titled transferred in her name yesterday. I may suck in most/all TAM women opinion but maybe I'm not a bad boyfriend to have.


----------



## Cynthia

Wow! That is quite a gift. I can see both your points. I hope she enjoys it tremendously. And I hope you enjoy her enjoying it.


----------



## Blondilocks

2&out said:


> The no way A-hole guy update
> 
> Had what was almost first *real* fight with GF last weekend. One of the things that being with me pretty much requires is a love for cars - or very high tolerance for hearing about. She has the first. She's got great taste - of course - she's with me ! LOL. This car had a for sale sign on it at a car show we were at. I saw/observed how she looked at it. I talked to the owner. I drove. I had her drive "just for fun". Her look doing so said it all. I asked if she liked it (even though I knew). I pulled her aside and told her if the price is right I am going to buy for her. And then... NO !! You can't do that! I won't accept it ! NONONO. Ummm... excuse me ? Are you telling me what I can / can't do ? Are you telling me I can't buy something for you if I want to ? Do you want to go there ??. Make me feel married/get permission ? I reminded her that when I give something that is what I do - no strings attached. She has seen/knows that is true. I told her I don't think it will be as expensive as she might think.
> 
> And I then bought - for IMHO really cheap for such a bit**in car. We went and titled transferred in her name yesterday. I may suck in most/all TAM women opinion but maybe I'm not a bad boyfriend to have.


Are we suppose to guess or are you going to tell us what it is?


----------



## Andy1001

Blondilocks said:


> Are we suppose to guess or are you going to tell us what it is?


It’s an Aston Martin. Probably a V8.


----------



## Blondilocks

Andy1001 said:


> It’s an Aston Martin. Probably a V8.


Somehow, I don't think that will ever be confused with a Chrysler:wink2:. lol


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> It’s an Aston Martin. Probably a V8.


Nothing says loaded like giving your girlfriend a handmade car.:surprise:


----------



## Cynthia

ConanHub said:


> Nothing says loaded like giving your girlfriend a handmade car.:surprise:


But...it wasn't that expensive. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

CynthiaDe said:


> But...it wasn't that expensive.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Couldn't help researching. Those cars still can't be had for chump change and are still very impressive gifts.

Difficult to maintain however.


----------



## Lila

2&out said:


> The no way A-hole guy update <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
> 
> Had what was almost first *real* fight with GF last weekend. One of the things that being with me pretty much requires is a love for cars - or very high tolerance for hearing about. She has the first. She's got great taste - of course - she's with me ! LOL. This car had a for sale sign on it at a car show we were at. I saw/observed how she looked at it. I talked to the owner. I drove. I had her drive "just for fun". Her look doing so said it all. I asked if she liked it (even though I knew). I pulled her aside and told her if the price is right I am going to buy for her. And then... NO !! You can't do that! I won't accept it ! NONONO. Ummm... excuse me ? Are you telling me what I can / can't do ? Are you telling me I can't buy something for you if I want to ? Do you want to go there ??. Make me feel married/get permission ? I reminded her that when I give something that is what I do - no strings attached. She has seen/knows that is true. I told her I don't think it will be as expensive as she might think.
> 
> And I then bought - for IMHO really cheap for such a bit**in car. We went and titled transferred in her name yesterday. I may suck in most/all TAM women opinion but maybe I'm not a bad boyfriend to have.


That's great! 

I too would have probably tried to reject the car. Unfortunately, high dollar gifts like cars tend to be used as choke collars to manipulate behavior. Giver will keep bringing up buying the receiver the car whenever he/she wants something from the receiver. I'm not saying you would do this just giving you an idea why she might have rejected the idea in the first place.


----------



## In Absentia

Andy1001 said:


> It’s an Aston Martin. Probably a V8.


yes, Aston Martin Vantage... the early models (2005 >) have a V8 engine...


----------



## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> That's great!
> 
> I too would have probably tried to reject the car. Unfortunately, high dollar gifts like cars tend to be used as choke collars to manipulate behavior. Giver will keep bringing up buying the receiver the car whenever he/she wants something from the receiver. I'm not saying you would do this just giving you an idea why she might have rejected the idea in the first place.




Bingo. I would not have accepted such an expensive gift. No way, no how. 


ETA: If I want something of that magnitude, I would get it myself or go without.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Woke up with a cute boyfriend in my bed! Haven’t had that happen in a couple of years. Of course that is mainly because my mom was living with me so I never had men over night (or over at all really). 

He came over last night and we played with our fun kinky game for hours, smoked a joint, then ravaged each other for a couple more hours. We were wanting to go for more but we both were passed out. When I woke up in the middle of the night and realized hey, there’s a man asleep in my bed! I then thought hey that’s right, people actually spend the night with each other. Lolz

He was a great snuggler all night too. The only minor thing was that he is so big and my bed is a Queen size and we were pretty crammed in it as far as sleeping. I forgot what it’s like to sleep with a big man in your bed.

Loved it but can’t do it every night. 

Wheeeee!!!

In the morning he was sweet and we snuggled for a long time and we talked about the night before and how excited we are to have more nights like that.


----------



## Andy1001

ConanHub said:


> Couldn't help researching. Those cars still can't be had for chump change and are still very impressive gifts.
> 
> Difficult to maintain however.


All British made cars come with a free pair of gloves. 
For pushing on a cold morning.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Woke up with a cute boyfriend in my bed! Haven’t had that happen in a couple of years. Of course that is mainly because my mom was living with me so I never had men over night (or over at all really).
> 
> He came over last night and we played with our fun kinky game for hours, smoked a joint, then ravaged each other for a couple more hours. We were wanting to go for more but we both were passed out. When I woke up in the middle of the night and realized hey, there’s a man asleep in my bed! I then thought hey that’s right, people actually spend the night with each other. Lolz
> 
> He was a great snuggler all night too. The only minor thing was that he is so big and my bed is a Queen size and we were pretty crammed in it as far as sleeping. I forgot what it’s like to sleep with a big man in your bed.
> 
> Loved it but can’t do it every night.
> 
> Wheeeee!!!
> 
> In the morning he was sweet and we snuggled for a long time and we talked about the night before and how excited we are to have more nights like that.


Yeay! Glad you enjoyed a lovely evening and night with your main squeeze.


----------



## Lila

Review of dating app Hinge

As I mentioned earlier this month, I joined Hinge on a lark first week in July. I just deleted it. 

Pros: 

-The profile was easy to set up and requires minimal information - upload six photos/videos, answer three conversation starter questions from a list, and include basic info (location, height, smoke, drink, drugs, and children have/wants). 
- The site will limit who views your profile to only those people who meet your preferences and who's preferences you meet. 

Cons: 
-Hinge does not include a preference filter for relationship type sought - friend, casual, short term, or long term. That was something that I had to ask of the men with whom I matched. Lots of unmatch after that. 
-Online dating is window shopping. In my experience, if the connection is not made within the first day of messaging, there won't be a connection. Without an actual profile, everything has to be gleaned through texting/conversation. This takes way too long and most either get bored with the process or move on to the shinier profile. I know I did. 
-because of the above, the app is littered with either folks looking to chat ad nauseum or those looking to meet right away knowing zero about the other person. 

Overall, I wouldn't recommend this app. It is trying to combine the ease of tinder with the slow, get to know you pace of e Harmony but without the compatibility questionnaire.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Review of dating app Hinge
> 
> As I mentioned earlier this month, I joined Hinge on a lark first week in July. I just deleted it.
> 
> Pros:
> 
> -The profile was easy to set up and requires minimal information - upload six photos/videos, answer three conversation starter questions from a list, and include basic info (location, height, smoke, drink, drugs, and children have/wants).
> - The site will limit who views your profile to only those people who meet your preferences and who's preferences you meet.
> 
> Cons:
> -Hinge does not include a preference filter for relationship type sought - friend, casual, short term, or long term. That was something that I had to ask of the men with whom I matched. Lots of unmatch after that.
> -Online dating is window shopping. In my experience, if the connection is not made within the first day of messaging, there won't be a connection. Without an actual profile, everything has to be gleaned through texting/conversation. This takes way too long and most either get bored with the process or move on to the shinier profile. I know I did.
> -because of the above, the app is littered with either folks looking to chat ad nauseum or those looking to meet right away knowing zero about the other person.
> 
> Overall, I wouldn't recommend this app. It is trying to combine the ease of tinder with the slow, get to know you pace of e Harmony but without the compatibility questionnaire.


That sounds basically like bumble. Just that the woman has to initiate a convo after a match.

I agree there’s no app better than another. It ends up being chance. Was this guy I ended up dating on the app at the same time as I was or not?


----------



## Andy1001

Lila said:


> Review of dating app Hinge
> 
> As I mentioned earlier this month, I joined Hinge on a lark first week in July. I just deleted it.
> 
> Pros:
> 
> -The profile was easy to set up and requires minimal information - upload six photos/videos, answer three conversation starter questions from a list, and include basic info (location, height, smoke, drink, drugs, and children have/wants).
> - The site will limit who views your profile to only those people who meet your preferences and who's preferences you meet.
> 
> Cons:
> -Hinge does not include a preference filter for relationship type sought - friend, casual, short term, or long term. That was something that I had to ask of the men with whom I matched. Lots of unmatch after that.
> -Online dating is window shopping. In my experience, if the connection is not made within the first day of messaging, there won't be a connection. Without an actual profile, everything has to be gleaned through texting/conversation. This takes way too long and most either get bored with the process or move on to the shinier profile. I know I did.
> -because of the above, the app is littered with either folks looking to chat ad nauseum or those looking to meet right away knowing zero about the other person.
> 
> Overall, I wouldn't recommend this app. It is trying to combine the ease of tinder with the slow, get to know you pace of e Harmony but without the compatibility questionnaire.


Does this mean that you’re “Unhinged”.


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> That sounds basically like bumble. Just that the woman has to initiate a convo after a match.
> 
> I agree there’s no app better than another. It ends up being chance. *Was this guy I ended up dating on the app at the same time as I was or not?*


 I don't quite understand your last line FW. Did you meet your guy on an app?


----------



## Lila

Andy1001 said:


> Does this mean that you’re “Unhinged”.


Lol I've always been unhinged. Didn't need an app to tell me that. 😄


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds basically like bumble. Just that the woman has to initiate a convo after a match.
> 
> I agree there’s no app better than another. It ends up being chance. *Was this guy I ended up dating on the app at the same time as I was or not?*
> 
> 
> 
> I don't quite understand your last line FW. Did you meet your guy on an app?
Click to expand...

Sorry I didn’t word that very well.

I always end up feeling that a guy I meet was some kind of fate. If it ends up being a little thing or a long time friendship or real boyfriend, I feel there was fate involved but that fate makes some things look like chance. So wherever I meet someone is irrelevant, I’m going to meet that person. 

So any app has no better or worse chance for me to meet someone. Is the next guy I date going to show up on an app or in person or through friends? That part seems like chance so you can’t say which is the right way to meet someone. You can’t even focus on just one method to meet someone because they may turn up in some other way.

Yes this one was from bumble. But the law of attraction brought us together. The way we met seemed like chance but the moment we connected we knew it was something meant to be.

That doesn’t mean it’s meant to be forever.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Elizabeth001 said:


> Bingo. I would not have accepted such an expensive gift. No way, no how.
> 
> 
> ETA: If I want something of that magnitude, I would get it myself or go without.




Not to mention the attitude that took place with him when she wanted to refuse was gross and out of line. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes this one was from bumble. But the law of attraction brought us together. The way we met seemed like chance but the moment we connected we knew it was something meant to be.
> 
> That doesn’t mean it’s meant to be forever.


Ultimately is this what you are looking for though?


----------



## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes this one was from bumble. But the law of attraction brought us together. The way we met seemed like chance but the moment we connected we knew it was something meant to be.
> 
> That doesn’t mean it’s meant to be forever.
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately is this what you are looking for though?
Click to expand...

Yes because I wasn’t looking for Mr Right. I was looking for a really nice boyfriend. 

That doesn’t mean he can’t turn out to be Mr Right. 

He may. I doubt it but I don’t know him that well yet. Neither of us are looking for marriage or moving in together.

But a very deep nice relationship can develop even without trying to go further with it.


----------



## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes because I wasn’t looking for Mr Right. I was looking for a really nice boyfriend.
> 
> That doesn’t mean he can’t turn out to be Mr Right.
> 
> He may. I doubt it but I don’t know him that well yet. Neither of us are looking for marriage or moving in together.
> 
> But a very deep nice relationship can develop even without trying to go further with it.


I hear ya! I am kind of in that same boat with you. I have been married twice and while I would like to think that I just messed up both times and know better now. Here I am 3 years after my divorce, 56 years old, have had two relationships with men since my divorce and really liked both and it just did not work out. So right now I don't have my hopes too high. If it happens, it does and in the meantime I am going to enjoy the company of the person I am with.


----------



## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> I hear ya! I am kind of in that same boat with you. I have been married twice and while I would like to think that I just messed up both times and know better now. Here I am 3 years after my divorce, 56 years old, have had two relationships with men since my divorce and really liked both and it just did not work out. So right now I don't have my hopes too high. If it happens, it does and in the meantime I am going to enjoy the company of the person I am with.


I'm 3.5 years out now and I am NOT ready for another completely committed relationship yet.

But I am totally ready for some fun, some adventure, some close feelings, companionship, sex, etc!

I know that someday I will be ready again, I'm just not there yet. I'm having a lot of fun just getting to do my own thing and loving myself. 

I would not word it that I don't have my hopes up. I would say that I know there is love and relationships available in the world and that when I'm ready for a deeper one, that person will be ready for me, too.


----------



## In Absentia

Faithful Wife said:


> I know that someday I will be ready again, I'm just not there yet.



I don't think I will ever be able to do that again at 56...


----------



## Faithful Wife

In Absentia said:


> I don't think I will ever be able to do that again at 56...


It feels like that now. But you aren’t even ready to date yet! After that, you will start to feel your way toward a different future.


----------



## In Absentia

Faithful Wife said:


> It feels like that now. But you aren’t even ready to date yet! After that, you will start to feel your way toward a different future.


Hopefully... 33 years with the same woman are an eternity... :smile2:


----------



## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> It feels like that now. But you aren’t even ready to date yet! After that, you will start to feel your way toward a different future.




Not necessarily. The more time that passes, the more I appreciate being by myself. I’ve had some fwbs here and there but even that becomes less appealing as time goes by. I’ve always been codependent in my past and have had a terrible picker. I’m past due for a change!

I’m feeling more fulfilled right now than I ever have being completely independent. If something should come along, then cool. If not, I’m good with that. It’s a great place to be 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> Not necessarily. The more time that passes, the more I appreciate being by myself. I’ve had some fwbs here and there but even that becomes less appealing as time goes by. I’ve always been codependent in my past and have had a terrible picker. I’m past due for a change!
> 
> I’m feeling more fulfilled right now than I ever have being completely independent. If something should come along, then cool. If not, I’m good with that. It’s a great place to be
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s why I said he would feel his way to a new future. He doesn’t know what exactly he will want by then. Only way for him to know is to wait it out and see how he feels. :laugh:


----------



## lovelygirl

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm 3.5 years out now and I am NOT ready for another completely committed relationship yet.
> 
> But I am totally ready for some fun, some adventure, some close feelings, companionship, sex, etc!
> 
> I know that someday I will be ready again, I'm just not there yet. I'm having a lot of fun just getting to do my own thing and loving myself.
> 
> I would not word it that I don't have my hopes up. I would say that I know there is love and relationships available in the world and that when I'm ready for a deeper one, that person will be ready for me, too.


I expected to read "I got back with my ex-hubby again". You know how much I adored you and your hubby as a couple, by just reading your posts. 


Also, hi there again TAM.


----------



## Faithful Wife

lovelygirl said:


> I expected to read "I got back with my ex-hubby again". You know how much I adored you and your hubby as a couple, by just reading your posts.
> 
> 
> Also, hi there again TAM.


Hello Lovely!

It still might happen. In the meantime, we are very close friends and neither of us are any hurry to find someone else who seems like a forever type of thing. We don’t say it out loud because we don’t want to jinx anything or write our story out before we have all the data, but we both have the draft of the surprise reunion ending written on our hearts.


----------



## lovelygirl

Faithful Wife said:


> Hello Lovely!
> 
> It still might happen. In the meantime, we are very close friends and neither of us are any hurry to find someone else who seems like a forever type of thing. We don’t say it out loud because we don’t want to jinx anything or write our story out before we have all the data, but we both have the draft of the surprise reunion ending written on our hearts.


oh, some lil'hope then!! ray:

You just warmed my heart! :x


----------



## In Absentia

Faithful Wife said:


> That’s why I said he would feel his way to a new future. He doesn’t know what exactly he will want by then. Only way for him to know is to wait it out and see how he feels. :laugh:


It's really depressing right now... I'm in limbo for the next couple of months and I can't stand it anymore...


----------



## Faithful Wife

In Absentia said:


> It's really depressing right now... I'm in limbo for the next couple of months and I can't stand it anymore...


I understand.

Pleas know you are in the worst of it right now and it will last a bit longer. There is no short cut out. It takes time.

You will know when this particular fog starts to lift.

Until then, self care is the only thing you can do to get through it.

Do you have friends, a brother or uncle, sisters, anyone you can lean on for a bit while you pass this time? People who support you and aren’t rushing you to do anything. 

And if you don’t youll just have to lean on us here at TAM.


----------



## In Absentia

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you have friends, a brother or uncle, sisters, anyone you can lean on for a bit while you pass this time? People who support you and aren’t rushing you to do anything.
> 
> And if you don’t youll just have to lean on us here at TAM.


Only one friend knows... but I rarely see him. I speak to him on the phone from time to time. In the meantime, my wife can talk to her sisters. And I haven't told my family yet. It's too depressing and they are in a different country. I have the therapist I can talk to, but I only see her once a week and she's been on holiday... I guess I'll ride it out, but this stuff is driving me crazy.


----------



## Faithful Wife

In Absentia said:


> Only one friend knows... but I rarely see him. I speak to him on the phone from time to time. In the meantime, my wife can talk to her sisters. And I haven't told my family yet. It's too depressing and they are in a different country. I have the therapist I can talk to, but I only see her once a week and she's been on holiday... I guess I'll ride it out, but this stuff is driving me crazy.


What part is the “stuff” that is driving you the most crazy? Talk to us.


----------



## In Absentia

Faithful Wife said:


> What part is the “stuff” that is driving you the most crazy? Talk to us.


Lots... the fact that I'm in limbo and I can't detach properly. The fact that I don't want this separation and the fact that I can't go back and change things. But also the fact that I feel rejected by the woman I love. Finally, the fact that she pretended to be ok for the last 10 years, that she said she loved me but it was all a lie. That hurts a lot.


----------



## Faithful Wife

In Absentia said:


> Lots... the fact that I'm in limbo and I can't detach properly. The fact that I don't want this separation and the fact that I can't go back and change things. But also the fact that I feel rejected by the woman I love. Finally, the fact that she pretended to be ok for the last 10 years, that she said she loved me but it was all a lie. That hurts a lot.


Sigh....yes. The actual heart break of it all is the worst. And is something no one can really help with. But we can at least be here for you.

I’m finally over my broken heart now, but when I was where you are, I literally never thought it would mend. 

I so sad for you, 

But we will help you. Stay with us and let us help by at least hearing you.


----------



## In Absentia

Faithful Wife said:


> But we will help you. Stay with us and let us help by at least hearing you.


Thanks... some days are better than others! Seeing the therapist tomorrow... it's good to let it out, occasionally...


----------



## Hexagon

2&out said:


> The no way A-hole guy update
> 
> Had what was almost first *real* fight with GF last weekend. One of the things that being with me pretty much requires is a love for cars - or very high tolerance for hearing about. She has the first. She's got great taste - of course - she's with me ! LOL. This car had a for sale sign on it at a car show we were at. I saw/observed how she looked at it. I talked to the owner. I drove. I had her drive "just for fun". Her look doing so said it all. I asked if she liked it (even though I knew). I pulled her aside and told her if the price is right I am going to buy for her. And then... NO !! You can't do that! I won't accept it ! NONONO. Ummm... excuse me ? Are you telling me what I can / can't do ? Are you telling me I can't buy something for you if I want to ? Do you want to go there ??. Make me feel married/get permission ? I reminded her that when I give something that is what I do - no strings attached. She has seen/knows that is true. I told her I don't think it will be as expensive as she might think.
> 
> And I then bought - for IMHO really cheap for such a bit**in car. We went and titled transferred in her name yesterday. I may suck in most/all TAM women opinion but maybe I'm not a bad boyfriend to have.


No strings attached? Wow. 
So uh....i'll go ahead and make some requests.....
GT350
Scat pack shaker
Raptor
Green gladiator
WRX Sti
Stage 3 Golf R
....basically any variant of the shelby name with a F-150 badge. 
:grin2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

Still have a boyfriend! Went to his place for the first time last night. He has a great bachelor pad, a cool apartment with a view and lots of manly vibe throughout. It was cool to be in a true man pad like this. I have lived with only feminine energy for so long now. His place felt comfortable and inviting but not girly at all. 

We ate and had sex and then talked all night. We made plans for the weekend and then talked more about how excited we are to see each other some more.

He is fun and sweet and cute and sexy. I’m super happy about where we are right now. I can’t see any red flags (of the kind that let me know it’s not going to keep working). 

The main thing that is so great is that we have a compatible sense of humor so we are laughing and smiling all the time when we are together.


----------



## 2&out

Been busy/running ~! 2007 Aston Martin Vantage V8. Stupid expensive to fix when they need... but these have VG reputation of being pretty reliable. Most are afraid of them because of what it is, so resale of this $100k car new, is low. 43k miles so "high" miles.. but not. This motor/drivetrain is like a Porsche 928 one - built to last - 150k do nothing but change oil/brakes/tires normal all cars unless abuse. This one cared for and near mint. $29.5K bend arm cash. That's about same as a new mid level Camry or Accord. But not even close to the same. Those are great cars but this one is another level - truly beautiful both inside and out - like she is.

I want nothing but her to enjoy it. I know she likes it and if she dumps me I'll be forever remembered for something special. That works for me.


----------



## 2&out

Hexagon... are you female ? Been busy... nice list ! But a Raptor ? You really that hard core to use as intended ? I actually did/drove/rode BAHA like 25 years ago. What a brutal, turned into not the fun I hoped, experience. WRX Sti as is AWD thumbs up for winter car ! Put the right tires on it for summer and same/better than GolfR.


----------



## AVR1962

In Absentia said:


> I don't think I will ever be able to do that again at 56...


33 years is a long time to be with a partner. My ex and I were together 27 years total and for me there was nothing left by the time I left so leaving was more a relief. The only thing I missed was companionship but that was all we were in the end, roommates....we were both there but we'd sit at the dinner table together and hardly speak. He did his thing, I did mine, so there was not much to miss. I think the hardest part of the whole dating scene for me has been knowing who to trust. Men come on really strong with all kinds of enduring words and promises. The men that tell me they are looking for a committed relationship on date one scare me.

Personally I have grown very tired of the whole dating process. I have a piece of paper I write the men's names on that I have dated.....33 in 3 years and a majority did not make it past date 1. On top of that texts or phone conversations that never got to the point of meeting. It's been me...certain things said, certain mannerisms, appearance are immediate turn-offs. Just this past couple weeks I went on 3 dates with this man....he couldn't smile or laugh, his face was stone-like and almost looked sad. He pulled out his phone and on the screen he had a cartoon nude woman (there is an actual name for this art), and then he told me he was a Trump fan and that sealed it for me- DONE! I ask myself if I am being too picky or not accepting but I know these things are things I could not be comfortable with.

I think part of it is a process of letting go of the past, learning to open your heart and trust again but then too finding that connection that feels good. I have had 2 relationships with men I really did enjoy so it can happen.


----------



## AVR1962

2&out said:


> The no way A-hole guy update
> 
> Had what was almost first *real* fight with GF last weekend. One of the things that being with me pretty much requires is a love for cars - or very high tolerance for hearing about. She has the first. She's got great taste - of course - she's with me ! LOL. This car had a for sale sign on it at a car show we were at. I saw/observed how she looked at it. I talked to the owner. I drove. I had her drive "just for fun". Her look doing so said it all. I asked if she liked it (even though I knew). I pulled her aside and told her if the price is right I am going to buy for her. And then... NO !! You can't do that! I won't accept it ! NONONO. Ummm... excuse me ? Are you telling me what I can / can't do ? Are you telling me I can't buy something for you if I want to ? Do you want to go there ??. Make me feel married/get permission ? I reminded her that when I give something that is what I do - no strings attached. She has seen/knows that is true. I told her I don't think it will be as expensive as she might think.
> 
> And I then bought - for IMHO really cheap for such a bit**in car. We went and titled transferred in her name yesterday. I may suck in most/all TAM women opinion but maybe I'm not a bad boyfriend to have.


My reaction would be that of your girlfriend. That is a huge gift. I did not read her telling you what to do in her saying "no." I think it was probably more of shock and feeling that this is such a big gift and wondering what obligations you would expect in return. Good for you to be able to explain yourself though.


----------



## In Absentia

AVR1962 said:


> I think part of it is a process of letting go of the past, learning to open your heart and trust again but then too finding that connection that feels good. I have had 2 relationships with men I really did enjoy so it can happen.


This was my first serious relationship, where I was completely committed and thought it would last my entire life. So, I don't know what to do, what to expect, how to trust again, how to be in a relationship with another woman. This is all so weird. My wife just asked me if I have told my mother yet. I haven't. I can't bear the thought of it...


----------



## AVR1962

Last night I told my "fun" guy (the tiger, the doctor) that as much as I enjoyed his company I wanted more than just a fun time. With his career, kids still in school and coming out of a lengthy marriage I felt what I was looking for was something he didn't have to give and I needed to move on. It went well, no remorse. I knew I did the right thing for me.

The night before I met with a man that I have been talking to on the phone. I no longer expect men to look like their online pictures and repair myself for anything. Just last weekend I met a man who was so freakin' arrogant. I knew from the first sentence out of his mouth the date was over but not to be rude I sat and talked with him for an hour. I guess people cannot see themselves. Nice looking, dressed well but extremely controlling and full of himself, ready to question me in a demeaning manner- NO! (back to the new guy) I really liked this guy. We sat and laughed, showed each other family pics on our phones. At the end of the night he told me he had something for me and we walked to his car en-route to mine and he gave me a single rose and kissed me on the cheek. I was really surprised, no one has ever done that. We have talked since and he knows that I have been multi-dating, I have been honest. He simply told me he won't multi-date himself, that he is interested in getting to know one lady at a time and that when I feel I could do the same with him to let him know. He said it didn't make him feel easy knowing I am seeing other men but that I had to do what was best for me. I told him I cannot say he is "the one" after just one date and thanked him for telling me how he felt. When I got off the phone I had to process the past 3 years of dating, it has been a journey to say the very least! I have met and talked to so many very interesting men. I am not willing to close my online dating account after one date but I can give this man a one-on-one chance and see how things go.


----------



## AVR1962

In Absentia said:


> This was my first serious relationship, where I was completely committed and thought it would last my entire life. So, I don't know what to do, what to expect, how to trust again, how to be in a relationship with another woman. This is all so weird. My wife just asked me if I have told my mother yet. I haven't. I can't bear the thought of it...


Oh wow, I feel or you. Telling your mom will be a big step to moving forward. My parents are older and I did not want to bother them with my life so have also not told them everything. My dad picks up on things though and if he asks me a question then we will talk. I didn't know if they would support me leaving my ex but they did and since my dad has given me advise without asking. I don't lean on him but I know he is in my back pocket as my cheerleader and wants what is best for me. I would encourage you getting the strength to talk to your mom, she deserves the truth and it might very well help you too.


----------



## In Absentia

AVR1962 said:


> I would encourage you getting the strength to talk to your mom, she deserves the truth and it might very well help you too.


It's not just my mother... it's my brother, my sister, all my relatives. They live in a different country, so I don't really want to tell them over Skype... but I won't be able to go back until late September... my dad passed away 3 years ago with lung cancer... not a great time in my life right now... :frown2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

In Absentia said:


> It's not just my mother... it's my brother, my sister, all my relatives. They live in a different country, so I don't really want to tell them over Skype... but I won't be able to go back until late September... my dad passed away 3 years ago with lung cancer... not a great time in my life right now... :frown2:


I want to encourage you to tell them, even if by Skype, or email.

Start with one, and maybe ask them to tell the rest. Ask them for their support. 

They can’t support you until they know. I know it’s heartbreaking all over again to tell them. But you need their support right now, just like they need yours for other things. You need to lean on them and be there for each other. Please try.


----------



## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> Last night I told my "fun" guy (the tiger, the doctor) that as much as I enjoyed his company I wanted more than just a fun time. With his career, kids still in school and coming out of a lengthy marriage I felt what I was looking for was something he didn't have to give and I needed to move on. It went well, no remorse. I knew I did the right thing for me.
> 
> The night before I met with a man that I have been talking to on the phone. I no longer expect men to look like their online pictures and repair myself for anything. Just last weekend I met a man who was so freakin' arrogant. I knew from the first sentence out of his mouth the date was over but not to be rude I sat and talked with him for an hour. I guess people cannot see themselves. Nice looking, dressed well but extremely controlling and full of himself, ready to question me in a demeaning manner- NO! (back to the new guy) I really liked this guy. We sat and laughed, showed each other family pics on our phones. At the end of the night he told me he had something for me and we walked to his car en-route to mine and he gave me a single rose and kissed me on the cheek. I was really surprised, no one has ever done that. We have talked since and he knows that I have been multi-dating, I have been honest. He simply told me he won't multi-date himself, that he is interested in getting to know one lady at a time and that when I feel I could do the same with him to let him know. He said it didn't make him feel easy knowing I am seeing other men but that I had to do what was best for me. I told him I cannot say he is "the one" after just one date and thanked him for telling me how he felt. When I got off the phone I had to process the past 3 years of dating, it has been a journey to say the very least! I have met and talked to so many very interesting men. I am not willing to close my online dating account after one date but I can give this man a one-on-one chance and see how things go.


That’s perfect MV in a date pacing. We are supposed to keep our options open, and ideally one of them will rise above and only want to pursue us. Then we can decide if he is worth taking ourselves off the market for.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Was supposed to have new boyfriend over last night but his sister was rushed to the hospital at the last minute. 

I’m still hoping and praying she is ok. I have not had an update since last night. I texted this morning asking for one but no word after 2 hours.

It could all be ok. I just don’t know so it’s very anxiety provoking. I’m trying not to imagine bad things.


----------



## Cynthia

Faithful Wife said:


> Was supposed to have new boyfriend over last night but his sister was rushed to the hospital at the last minute.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m still hoping and praying she is ok. I have not had an update since last night. I texted this morning asking for one but no word after 2 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> It could all be ok. I just don’t know so it’s very anxiety provoking. I’m trying not to imagine bad things.


I hope your sister is okay. That sounds scary.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

CynthiaDe said:


> I hope your sister is okay. That sounds scary.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


It is actually his sister, he went to the hospital with the rest of his family because it looks pretty serious.

This sister is also a young widow with young kids. 

I still don’t have an update.


----------



## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> That’s perfect MV in a date pacing. We are supposed to keep our options open, and ideally one of them will rise above and only want to pursue us. Then we can decide if he is worth taking ourselves off the market for.


The guy with the rose sent me a text asking me if I could meet with him when he gets off work tonight at 10 pm. I text back "10 pm?" His reply, "I am trying to balance work, family and you but maybe I don't mean enough to you." SKID MARKS in my head!!!! I cannot believe this BS! I texted him back and told him I had decided last night that I was only going to date him but his last text is making me question that decision. I don't think I can do this. To me this feels like control. Am I not understanding men? I am used to the whole infatuation thing and men wanting to jump in with both feet. They will praise and adore, go out of their way while those hormones are pumping. 6 months later they need their space, calls drop off and I am left wondering what just happened. Ugh!!!!!!!


----------



## Faithful Wife

AVR1962 said:


> The guy with the rose sent me a text asking me if I could meet with him when he gets off work tonight at 10 pm. I text back "10 pm?" His reply, "I am trying to balance work, family and you but maybe I don't mean enough to you." SKID MARKS in my head!!!! I cannot believe this BS! I texted him back and told him I had decided last night that I was only going to date him but his last text is making me question that decision. I don't think I can do this. To me this feels like control. Am I not understanding men? I am used to the whole infatuation thing and men wanting to jump in with both feet. They will praise and adore, go out of their way while those hormones are pumping. 6 months later they need their space, calls drop off and I am left wondering what just happened. Ugh!!!!!!!


I understand your reaction. How dare he try to make some comment that implies I owe him anything! I don’t even know you!

But there’s another way to respond. You could say “wow, after only one date you feel you need to balance your life just to make time for me. I’m flattered! However, I don’t know how I feel about you yet, and no I don’t think that making time at 10 pm at the last minute to see you would indicate that you “mean enough” to me. I show how much people mean to me by planning in advance in advance with them because I value their schedules and don’t expect them to run to me when I have time”.

Then see if the snark actually makes him apologize.

Because what he was actually trying to say to you was that he is into you and is trying to move his schedule around to make more time to get to know you.

I’m not excusing his word choice and maybe he is a controlling jerk. 

But he also maybe just likes you and is trying to make more time for dates so he can get you off the market.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Just got a really sad update, and not out of the woods.

His sister had an injury on her foot which included a laceration. She got an infection. They had her on antibiotics. Those stopped working and she developed a much worse infection. She was feverish and vomiting so they took her in.

They are trying to stabilize the infection (it’s really bad now) and decided they must amputate part of her foot.

They hope this will end the infection throughout her body but aren’t sure.

It’s all so very sad. My poor boyfriend and his sister and family. Like I already said, this sister lost her husband a few years ago and is a young widow with kids. My boyfriend has the kids right now. I can’t imagine how scared they must be. And him too.


----------



## farsidejunky

Faithful Wife said:


> Just got a really sad update, and not out of the woods.
> 
> 
> 
> His sister had an injury on her foot which included a laceration. She got an infection. They had her on antibiotics. Those stopped working and she developed a much worse infection. She was feverish and vomiting so they took her in.
> 
> 
> 
> They are trying to stabilize the infection (it’s really bad now) and decided they must amputate part of her foot.
> 
> 
> 
> They hope this will end the infection throughout her body but aren’t sure.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s all so very sad. My poor boyfriend and his sister and family. Like I already said, this sister lost her husband a few years ago and is a young widow with kids. My boyfriend has the kids right now. I can’t imagine how scared they must be. And him too.


Wow. That is crazy. Prayers for her and his family.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> I understand your reaction. How dare he try to make some comment that implies I owe him anything! I don’t even know you!
> 
> But there’s another way to respond. You could say “wow, after only one date you feel you need to balance your life just to make time for me. I’m flattered! However, I don’t know how I feel about you yet, and no I don’t think that making time at 10 pm at the last minute to see you would indicate that you “mean enough” to me. I show how much people mean to me by planning in advance in advance with them because I value their schedules and don’t expect them to run to me when I have time”.
> 
> Then see if the snark actually makes him apologize.
> 
> Because what he was actually trying to say to you was that he is into you and is trying to move his schedule around to make more time to get to know you.
> 
> I’m not excusing his word choice and maybe he is a controlling jerk.
> 
> But he also maybe just likes you and is trying to make more time for dates so he can get you off the market.


I think he does like me and he did send a text apologizing and told me he just wants to see me. BUT hold on here......no joke, I heard back from my "fun" guy (the tiger- the doctor) who I broke things off with yesterday. He took a picture of a necklace he bought me while he was in Hawaii last week on a conference. He asked me if he could send it to me. I had no idea the man even had feelings for me as he was not expressing it and that was my reply. He said he had been enjoying my company, that he does like me and he liked not having a relationship hinging on expectations which is pretty much how I had been feeling too. I just didn't want to be a notch on his bedpost. He said he would not have made contact with me had that been the case. Yikes! What have I got myself into?


----------



## AVR1962

Faithful Wife said:


> Just got a really sad update, and not out of the woods.
> 
> His sister had an injury on her foot which included a laceration. She got an infection. They had her on antibiotics. Those stopped working and she developed a much worse infection. She was feverish and vomiting so they took her in.
> 
> They are trying to stabilize the infection (it’s really bad now) and decided they must amputate part of her foot.
> 
> They hope this will end the infection throughout her body but aren’t sure.
> 
> It’s all so very sad. My poor boyfriend and his sister and family. Like I already said, this sister lost her husband a few years ago and is a young widow with kids. My boyfriend has the kids right now. I can’t imagine how scared they must be. And him too.


Amputation of part of her foot? Wow! That is scary stuff!!!!


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## OnTheFly

Diabetes related?


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## Faithful Wife

OnTheFly said:


> Diabetes related?


No, it was just an injury. But there was a laceration. That developed a minor infection which has turned into now a life threatening one. 

They hope by removing part of her foot it will stop the infection but they don’t know for sure. It’s just the only thing they can try at this point. :frown2:

And even if it does stop the infection, she has a long road of recovery ahead.


----------



## OnTheFly

Faithful Wife said:


> No, it was just an injury. But there was a laceration. That developed a minor infection which has turned into now a life threatening one.
> 
> They hope by removing part of her foot it will stop the infection but they don’t know for sure. It’s just the only thing they can try at this point. :frown2:


Yikes, hope it works!


----------



## wilson

AVR1962 said:


> I think he does like me and he did send a text apologizing and told me he just wants to see me.


Speaking as a guy, I think you should cut it off with him. He's just trying to do damage control and hang onto you. It's a red flag how he got way too attached after just one casual date. Of course, none of us are surprised since we know how awesome you are, but that's because we've known you for a while  In addition, he's expecting you to be just as committed as he is. He shouldn't be trying to control or complain about how you feel about him. Whatever underlying problem he has will show up often and in many different ways.


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## honcho

Faithful Wife said:


> I understand your reaction. How dare he try to make some comment that implies I owe him anything! I don’t even know you!
> 
> But there’s another way to respond. You could say “wow, after only one date you feel you need to balance your life just to make time for me. I’m flattered! However, I don’t know how I feel about you yet, and no I don’t think that making time at 10 pm at the last minute to see you would indicate that you “mean enough” to me. I show how much people mean to me by planning in advance in advance with them because I value their schedules and don’t expect them to run to me when I have time”.
> 
> Then see if the snark actually makes him apologize.
> 
> Because what he was actually trying to say to you was that he is into you and is trying to move his schedule around to make more time to get to know you.
> 
> I’m not excusing his word choice and maybe he is a controlling jerk.
> 
> But he also maybe just likes you and is trying to make more time for dates so he can get you off the market.


I'll go with controlling jerk. He may be trying schedule time but giving that response this early in a potential relationship is all about a control game for him, either she plays on his terms or not.


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## Blondilocks

10:00 pm isn't a date - it's a booty call. Next.


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## Elizabeth001

Blondilocks said:


> 10:00 pm isn't a date - it's a booty call. Next.




Damned straight. Eff going out that late. Sounds disrespectful to me. HUGE red flag. 


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> Damned straight. Eff going out that late. Sounds disrespectful to me. HUGE red flag.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


THIS and all the comments preceding. It's co trolling and manipulative.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

Well the update on boyfriend's sister is ok, in that surgery was successful and they feel the infection is not life threatening now. But now she has a really long rehabilitation to make. The poor thing, ugh.

Boyfriend has still been at the hospital most of the time, or watching her kids. He said he can probably see me tomorrow night so I said I'd be free if he is. He thanked me for being so supportive (which has been nothing except by text, but he knows energetically that all my prayers are all over him and his family).

I think we are out of the woods as far as the immediate emergency. So I think boyfriend will be able to sort of settle into his usual life at some point soon. But that recovery his sister has to make will be a long road.


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## AVR1962

wilson said:


> Speaking as a guy, I think you should cut it off with him. He's just trying to do damage control and hang onto you. It's a red flag how he got way too attached after just one casual date. Of course, none of us are surprised since we know how awesome you are, but that's because we've known you for a while  In addition, he's expecting you to be just as committed as he is. He shouldn't be trying to control or complain about how you feel about him. Whatever underlying problem he has will show up often and in many different ways.


Thank you for the insight. I was flatted but honestly I was thinking he was just too much too fast. Skip the details but just a couple days after I posted this he told me he was not sure about this new age dating, he just didn't have the time for it with his work schedule. I told him he had to do what was best for him and I had to do what was best for me and I have not heard from him since. It was actually a relief.


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## Lila

Hey all. I am going on a dinner tonight with someone I met last night. This is a big deal because it's the first "real"(someone who seems interested in me as more than a friend) date I've had since "Big Country" passed away. If any of you are counting, that's five months. Wish me luck. 

Also, today marks my 1 year anniversary of living as a single person. I'll take pics of the celebration ;-D


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## Lila

Lila said:


> Hey all. I am going on a dinner tonight with someone I met last night. This is a big deal because it's the first "real"(someone who seems interested in me as more than a friend) date I've had since "Big Country" passed away. If any of you are counting, that's five months. Wish me luck.
> 
> Also, today marks my 1 year anniversary of living as a single person. I'll take pics of the celebration ;-D


OM freaking G! I haven't left the house yet and things are going to crap. I had a freaking CROWN just fall off my back tooth!!!! WTF!! But I'm not going to let that stop me going on this date. I put crazy glue on it and slapped that sucker back on. I'll get to the dentist monday.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Lila said:


> OM freaking G! I haven't left the house yet and things are going to crap. I had a freaking CROWN just fall off my back tooth!!!! WTF!! But I'm not going to let that stop me going on this date. I put crazy glue on it and slapped that sucker back on. I'll get to the dentist monday.




Bahahaaaa! You go girl!! 


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## AVR1962

Is it a full moon tonight??? I am a regular at the local Pappadeaux and always sit at the bar to eat. Tonight I parked myself, ordered and one man came to my right and one man came to my left to sit and chat. Hysterical! No connection with either man but it was a fun evening chatting.


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## Spotthedeaddog

Lila said:


> For those wondering why I don't stick to meeting people IRL, I seem to attract married or non monogamous men. Don't ask me why. I can't figure it out. Unfortunately, these are also the men with whom I have had the best chemistry. Go figure. I now just assume that if a man is attractive, is chivalrous, and can hold a conversation then he must be non monogamous.


As we all get older, the chivalrous etc end up with a partner, so for them to still be quality and looking, it would make sense that they are non-monogamous. Otherwise why haven't they got a partner yet.

Same as looking those dating sites with all the hot babes pictures on the advertising - if anyone looks like that and has to resort to general public dating site to prospect potential mates (vs hanging out at country clubs or inviting themselves to events) then they must be truly screwy somewhere to still be available.


----------



## Lila

spotthedeaddog said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those wondering why I don't stick to meeting people IRL, I seem to attract married or non monogamous men. Don't ask me why. I can't figure it out. Unfortunately, these are also the men with whom I have had the best chemistry. Go figure. I now just assume that if a man is attractive, is chivalrous, and can hold a conversation then he must be non monogamous.
> 
> 
> 
> As we all get older, the chivalrous etc end up with a partner, so for them to still be quality and looking, it would make sense that they are non-monogamous. Otherwise why haven't they got a partner yet.
Click to expand...

Lol, is "quality" now a euphemism for "cheater" because that's what I meet most IRL. Chivalrous, attractive, charismatic men WITH WIVES. Wives who are totally unaware of their husbands activities outside the boundaries of their marriage. 



> Same as looking those dating sites with all the hot babes pictures on the advertising - if anyone looks like that and has to resort to general public dating site to prospect potential mates (vs hanging out at country clubs or inviting themselves to events) then they must be truly screwy somewhere to still be available.


I have my own opinions on this but suffice it to say, everyone has a reason for online dating.


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## Lila

I had a great time on my date last night. He was a gentleman throughout the evening and the conversation flowed freely. Good time overall with one snag at the end. I gave him a kiss goodnight and it was a lot rougher and he was way more aggressive than I anticipated. I asked him to be more gentle but I don't think that's possible for him. I might have to throw this one back. Such a shame too. We get along great.


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## attheend02

Lila said:


> I had a great time on my date last night. He was a gentleman throughout the evening and the conversation flowed freely. Good time overall with one snag at the end. I gave him a kiss goodnight and it was a lot rougher and he was way more aggressive than I anticipated. I asked him to be more gentle but I don't think that's possible for him. I might have to throw this one back. Such a shame too. We get along great.



I wasn't there of course, but it sounds like you really liked the guy and are ruling him out on an awkward kiss...

maybe try again?


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## AVR1962

Lila said:


> I had a great time on my date last night. He was a gentleman throughout the evening and the conversation flowed freely. Good time overall with one snag at the end. I gave him a kiss goodnight and it was a lot rougher and he was way more aggressive than I anticipated. I asked him to be more gentle but I don't think that's possible for him. I might have to throw this one back. Such a shame too. We get along great.


Is your heart open? What I am asking is you are being receptive, have an open mind? Sometimes when we are not ready emotionally we find everything wrong with a person. Not saying this is your situation. When you say he was aggressive with the good-bye kiss I am assuming you became uncomfortable with what happened in that instant. What did his actions say/mean to you? What is your fear or concern?


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## Lila

attheend02 said:


> I wasn't there of course, but it sounds like you really liked the guy and are ruling him out on an awkward kiss...
> 
> maybe try again?


It wasn't the kiss...it was what he was trying to do with his hands that was the problem.


----------



## Lila

AVR1962 said:


> Is your heart open? What I am asking is you are being receptive, have an open mind? Sometimes when we are not ready emotionally we find everything wrong with a person. Not saying this is your situation. When you say he was aggressive with the good-bye kiss *I am assuming you became uncomfortable with what happened in that instant*. What did his actions say/mean to you? What is your fear or concern?


I think I'm open and receptive to meeting someone but I did become uncomfortable with what happened. It was one of those situations where he was testing my "No".


----------



## Andy1001

Lila said:


> It wasn't the kiss...it was what he was trying to do with his hands that was the problem.


More importantly is how did he react when you stopped him?
I think some men who have been out of the dating scene for a long time are kinda overwhelmed when it comes to dating again. The read about how women are much more sexually attuned than when he started dating. They may overcompensate to cover up their fears of inadequacy.


----------



## Lila

Andy1001 said:


> More importantly is how did he react when you stopped him?
> I think some men who have been out of the dating scene for a long time are kinda overwhelmed when it comes to dating again. The read about how women are much more sexually attuned than when he started dating. They may overcompensate to cover up their fears of inadequacy.


He's been dating for a while. I think my discomfort was how quickly he escalated. I've been out of it for a while but of the guys I have dated, this is the first time something like this has happened to me. I'm not going to completely write him off but this is one of those things I am going to bring up for discussion.


----------



## attheend02

Lila said:


> It wasn't the kiss...it was what he was trying to do with his hands that was the problem.


Oh... yeah... seems pretty forward on a first date.

I'm just starting a relationship with an awesome woman. I'm glad she ignored my awkward attempt at a first kiss.
I was respectful to her, though, it was just awkward.


----------



## Lila

attheend02 said:


> Oh... yeah... seems pretty forward on a first date.
> 
> I'm just starting a relationship with an awesome woman. I'm glad she ignored my awkward attempt at a first kiss.
> I was respectful to her, though, it was just awkward.


Awkward first kisses are pretty normal, I think. 

I am big on kissing but I am a gentle sensual kisser. I have only met one man who I meshed with from the get go. I learned to "fix" that awkwardness by telling my partners to "sit back, relax, and let me kiss you, show you what I like, and then you can kiss me and show me what you like". Hopefully, there's some common ground after it's all said and done.


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## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> OM freaking G! I haven't left the house yet and things are going to crap. I had a freaking CROWN just fall off my back tooth!!!! WTF!! But I'm not going to let that stop me going on this date. I put crazy glue on it and slapped that sucker back on. I'll get to the dentist monday.


Soldier on!

:-D

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm

Lila said:


> It wasn't the kiss...it was what he was trying to do with his hands that was the problem.




Yeah, not cool. Next. 


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## bkyln309

Well an update from me: I broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years about a month ago now. My brother was tragically killed in a car accident and we saw tons of outpouring from neighbors, friends, coworkers and the community in which he lived. My now ex boyfriend didnt offer to fly out to the funeral, didnt offer to watch my dog or my house, did not contribute to the gofundme. Nada. So the day I got on the plane to go to the funeral, I dumped him. 
We had other issues but this was the straw that broke the camels back. He wants to get back together even offering to pay for couples counseling but I have declined. I just cannot get over it.


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## 3Xnocharm

OMG @bkyln309, I am so, so sorry to hear about your brother! What a terrible tragedy for you and your family. 

As for the now XBF, I am not surprised in the least by his actions, and I hope you are finally done with him for good. He proved he wasnt worth a crap as a BF, what a heartless, selfish jerk.


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## Lila

bkyln309 said:


> Well an update from me: I broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years about a month ago now. My brother was tragically killed in a car accident and we saw tons of outpouring from neighbors, friends, coworkers and the community in which he lived. My now ex boyfriend didnt offer to fly out to the funeral, didnt offer to watch my dog or my house, did not contribute to the gofundme. Nada. So the day I got on the plane to go to the funeral, I dumped him.
> We had other issues but this was the straw that broke the camels back. He wants to get back together even offering to pay for couples counseling but I have declined. I just cannot get over it.


My deepest condolences on the passing of your brother @bklyn309. I don't know your history with your ex bf but if his lack of emotional support after the death of your brother is par for the course with him, then good riddance. Most importantly, how are you doing?


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## Affaircare

bkyln309 said:


> Well an update from me: I broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years about a month ago now. My brother was tragically killed in a car accident and we saw tons of outpouring from neighbors, friends, coworkers and the community in which he lived. My now ex boyfriend didnt offer to fly out to the funeral, didnt offer to watch my dog or my house, did not contribute to the gofundme. Nada. So the day I got on the plane to go to the funeral, I dumped him.
> We had other issues but this was the straw that broke the camels back. He wants to get back together even offering to pay for couples counseling but I have declined. I just cannot get over it.


----------



## AVR1962

bkyln309 said:


> Well an update from me: I broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years about a month ago now. My brother was tragically killed in a car accident and we saw tons of outpouring from neighbors, friends, coworkers and the community in which he lived. My now ex boyfriend didnt offer to fly out to the funeral, didnt offer to watch my dog or my house, did not contribute to the gofundme. Nada. So the day I got on the plane to go to the funeral, I dumped him.
> We had other issues but this was the straw that broke the camels back. He wants to get back together even offering to pay for couples counseling but I have declined. I just cannot get over it.


It stinks to see it clear as day that someone isn't there to support you and has no compassion for what you are dealing with. You made the right choice.


----------



## bkyln309

Lila said:


> My deepest condolences on the passing of your brother @bklyn309. I don't know your history with your ex bf but if his lack of emotional support after the death of your brother is par for the course with him, then good riddance. Most importantly, how are you doing?


I am seeing a therapist. I have had alot of loss in the past 3-6 years. I never thought my grief was piling up on the inside but my brother's death has triggered a ton of grief.


----------



## AVR1962

My full moon has continued....I swear! Taking LOTS of deep breaths today. So I put myself back on Match several months ago when I broke up with my boyfriend who chose to watch football instead of coming to Thanksgiving dinner. He and I did this back and forth thing for awhile but I kept my profile on Match and have been actively dating, not him. I never said anything to him that I was back on Match but we also have not had contact. I got a text from him today saying he saw I put myself back on Match and wished me luck. I responded and told him that I had and why, in my opinion, how we fell apart.....what I needed from him was not being met. He would blow in a be sweet, tell me we'd have time together and then not call and if I called and didn't get him he wouldn't return my call. How was I supposed to feel a connection. I don't feel bad. It's just I don't understand the male brain. I was to cater to his work schedule and him being tired and I was just supposed to wait around forever?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

@AVR1962, you should have ignored his text. All you are doing is encouraging him to keep contacting you, and you know there is no point to that.


----------



## Lila

bkyln309 said:


> I am seeing a therapist. I have had alot of loss in the past 3-6 years. I never thought my grief was piling up on the inside but my brother's death has triggered a ton of grief.


I am so so sorry @bklyn309. You have hit your threshold but it's great that you are seeing a therapist to help you through it.


----------



## Affaircare

AVR1962 said:


> My full moon has continued....I swear! Taking LOTS of deep breaths today. So I put myself back on Match several months ago when I broke up with my boyfriend who chose to watch football instead of coming to Thanksgiving dinner. He and I did this back and forth thing for awhile but I kept my profile on Match and have been actively dating, not him. I never said anything to him that I was back on Match but we also have not had contact. I got a text from him today saying he saw I put myself back on Match and wished me luck. I responded and told him that I had and why, in my opinion, how we fell apart.....what I needed from him was not being met. He would blow in a be sweet, tell me we'd have time together and then not call and if I called and didn't get him he wouldn't return my call. How was I supposed to feel a connection. I don't feel bad. It's just I don't understand the male brain. I was to cater to his work schedule and him being tired and I was just supposed to wait around forever?


 @AVR1962, here's an example of how this could go:

AVR1962: (put profile back on Match--actively dating)
RatherWatchFootball: (watching football--not dating--still trying to reel you in)

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: Deletes text--blocks unwanted texter

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: Deletes text without reading it...

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: Ignores text--carries on with day

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: Responds to text with "I do not want contact from you in any form. Stop right now."

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: Replies "Do I know you?" >

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: "None of your business. Leave me alone."

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: "Are you stalking me? I asked for no contact."

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: "Yes I did. Now leave me alone."

RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
AVR1962: "I've had a lot of luck, thanks. Please stop texting me." >

I'm sure you can see, there must be 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover, and NOT ONE of them involve replying to his (obvious) phishing text with why you two fell apart, how he didn't meet your needs, how he'd push and pull (and still is!), how you didn't believe he could emotionally connection, and how you felt like he expected you to cater to him. 

A) I'm a positive that what's going through his mind today is "Whew! Dodged a bullet on that one!"
B) You 100% sound like you still aren't over him and hold resentment. If you truly didn't give a rip, you'd just have deleted that and ignored it. If you respond like you did, even if it's angry, that means that you still care. 

@AVR1962, where you want to aim at is to get to that point where he'd text you, and what would go through your mind almost on a sub-conscious level is "So?." If my exH texted me and said "I see you put yourself on Match.com" I wouldn't reply to him...I'd think "Yeah...so?" and wonder what the heck he was thinking! I think I'd laugh, honestly, because I don't give a rip what he thinks. Now, I don't wish him any ill will, but I don't care what the milkman thinks, I don't care what the auto mechanic thinks, I don't care what the teacher at my kid's school thinks...and I don't care what exH thinks. He'd just another of the faceless billions I don't consider. 

Get what I mean?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Affaircare said:


> @AVR1962, here's an example of how this could go:
> 
> AVR1962: (put profile back on Match--actively dating)
> RatherWatchFootball: (watching football--not dating--still trying to reel you in)
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Deletes text--blocks unwanted texter
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Deletes text without reading it...
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Ignores text--carries on with day
> 
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Responds to text with "I do not want contact from you in any form. Stop right now."
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Replies "Do I know you?" >
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: "None of your business. Leave me alone."
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: "Are you stalking me? I asked for no contact."
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: "Yes I did. Now leave me alone."
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: "I've had a lot of luck, thanks. Please stop texting me." >
> 
> *BLOCK#*
> 
> I'm sure you can see, there must be 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover, and NOT ONE of them involve replying to his (obvious) phishing text with why you two fell apart, how he didn't meet your needs, how he'd push and pull (and still is!), how you didn't believe he could emotionally connection, and how you felt like he expected you to cater to him.


Made a few adjustments! :grin2:


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## Wolf1974

Hi all,


Sorry been away so long it’s been a whirlwind summer. Everything with the engagement is good. We finally settled on a date and location (March 2021) but it’s further out than we hoped. Still things are good...meshed all our financials and accounts together. She is starting a new business and my work, well that never changes. Hope all is well with you all.


----------



## AVR1962

Affaircare said:


> @AVR1962, here's an example of how this could go:
> 
> AVR1962: (put profile back on Match--actively dating)
> RatherWatchFootball: (watching football--not dating--still trying to reel you in)
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Deletes text--blocks unwanted texter
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Deletes text without reading it...
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Ignores text--carries on with day
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Responds to text with "I do not want contact from you in any form. Stop right now."
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: Replies "Do I know you?" >
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: "None of your business. Leave me alone."
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: "Are you stalking me? I asked for no contact."
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: "Yes I did. Now leave me alone."
> 
> RatherWatchFootball: "I see you put yourself back on Match. Good luck with that.
> AVR1962: "I've had a lot of luck, thanks. Please stop texting me." >
> 
> I'm sure you can see, there must be 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover, and NOT ONE of them involve replying to his (obvious) phishing text with why you two fell apart, how he didn't meet your needs, how he'd push and pull (and still is!), how you didn't believe he could emotionally connection, and how you felt like he expected you to cater to him.
> 
> A) I'm a positive that what's going through his mind today is "Whew! Dodged a bullet on that one!"
> B) You 100% sound like you still aren't over him and hold resentment. If you truly didn't give a rip, you'd just have deleted that and ignored it. If you respond like you did, even if it's angry, that means that you still care.
> 
> @AVR1962, where you want to aim at is to get to that point where he'd text you, and what would go through your mind almost on a sub-conscious level is "So?." If my exH texted me and said "I see you put yourself on Match.com" I wouldn't reply to him...I'd think "Yeah...so?" and wonder what the heck he was thinking! I think I'd laugh, honestly, because I don't give a rip what he thinks. Now, I don't wish him any ill will, but I don't care what the milkman thinks, I don't care what the auto mechanic thinks, I don't care what the teacher at my kid's school thinks...and I don't care what exH thinks. He'd just another of the faceless billions I don't consider.
> 
> Get what I mean?


Yep!!! Live and learn. I like to try to be the nice guy but there are some people in this world that do not deserve it. I owe him NOTHING!!!!!


----------



## notmyjamie

bkyln309 said:


> Well an update from me: I broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years about a month ago now. My brother was tragically killed in a car accident and we saw tons of outpouring from neighbors, friends, coworkers and the community in which he lived. My now ex boyfriend didnt offer to fly out to the funeral, didnt offer to watch my dog or my house, did not contribute to the gofundme. Nada. So the day I got on the plane to go to the funeral, I dumped him.
> We had other issues but this was the straw that broke the camels back. He wants to get back together even offering to pay for couples counseling but I have declined. I just cannot get over it.


I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine having to deal with such a tragedy and have the person who is supposed to love you not be there for you at all. I couldn't get over that either. Couples counseling probably won't help what's wrong with him.


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## FeministInPink

@bklyn309 I am so sorry to hear about your brother. I hope that you are getting the support that you need now that you are with your family.

I'm also sorry to hear about everything with the boyfriend, but TBH, I'm not surprised. He was never really willing to give you anything real and he made that clear. You were willing to let that slide because you never really asked him for anything real. But the problem with that is when you actually need something real, he doesn't show up for you.

I'm glad that you've finally realized that you deserve more than what he's been giving you. I just wish it wasn't while you're dealing with this loss.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Not

I guess I’ll add my depressing news to the mix too. A little over a week ago I broke it off with the guy I’ve been seeing for three months. His living situation became something that began to wear me down. He lives in a room at the back of a friends house and he’s basically stuck there. His credit got shot during the divorce, his truck got repossessed last month (I loaned him the money to get it back so he could go to work) so now his credit is totally shot and he won’t be able to get his own place anytime soon, possibly a couple of years. His attitude toward it all right now is like someone who just doesn’t care anymore. He cares for me and didn’t want things to end but I couldn’t take it anymore. I know he’s down right now but he was dragging me down with him. On top of all that his friend is a raging alcoholic who’s constantly throwing parties and some of his friends are just the type I don’t want to be around, the females are absolutely trashy. 

Sigh. I’m depressed and miss him a lot but he needs to get his **** together and can’t. He needs to fix his own mess. He left a bottle of his body spray here at my place, I need to stop spraying my pillow with it before bed every night, but I miss him.


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## 3Xnocharm

Not, I feel ya sis. It’s tough to love someone in this kind of situation. My now ex bf just had his car repo’d about two weeks ago. There was no hardship that came up, he just decided not to pay. Ugh. If he’s looking at years until he gets out of there... that’s crazy. 

I know it’s hard but it sounds like you did the right thing for yourself. 



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## FeministInPink

@Not I hear your hurt, but I think you did the best thing for you. You need someone who is going to bring you up, not down. 

TBH, if he's in this bad of shape in terms of his finances and his living situation, it strikes me that he wasn't that better off before the divorce, or if he was better off before, his now XW might have been carrying him, if you know what I mean. And the quality of people a man chooses as friends says a lot about his character, and I'm not impressed by what you've told me about his friends. I think you may have dodged a bullet.

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## Blondilocks

@Not, when he told you that he didn't know why his wife divorced him, I figured there was a whole lot more to his story. Hope he repays you the loan (don't do that, again:nono:).


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## Lila

@Not I am so sorry that you are hurting now. I know you were head over heels with this guy and it's all relatively early in the break up. Do you have family and friends you can turn to for support? I hope you are but going through this alone.


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## Not

Thank you ladies. In his defense the repo was due to a major miscommunication. His truck is tied to a business and the owner and himself miscommunicated how the funds for payment would be handled and me loaning him the money was the fastest solution as I had the cash on hand. So the whole ordeal was taken care of in about three hours. It is going to further damage his already damaged credit. Also, the unsavory people mentioned are all friends of his roommate, not his. I didn’t make that very clear. 

If he had had his own place when we met none of this would be happening. That’s the sad part. He’s stuck where he is. He has no family here and no other friends with space for him and his boys and moving in with me is not an option. It just couldn’t be clearer that this wasn’t meant to be.


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## ne9907

all is well in the land of NE, I am redecorating my place and love it! I had hardwood floors installed, HVAC system installed, and am focusing on the kitchen. I wake up every morning, do a bit of meditation at the garden, paint or garden hard, or get bored, or go to appointments etc etc. I like my life very much right now. 
I am single, I am happy, I am healing, I am on instagram! me... on instagram... ahhhh....

Oh and thanks to the Veterans affairs and intense therapy, i have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Apparently, I am high functioning, it is all weird to me but learning. I am on the right medication and do feel better. Really good.

I love catching up with you all.


----------



## FeministInPink

ne9907 said:


> all is well in the land of NE, I am redecorating my place and love it! I had hardwood floors installed, HVAC system installed, and am focusing on the kitchen. I wake up every morning, do a bit of meditation at the garden, paint or garden hard, or get bored, or go to appointments etc etc. I like my life very much right now.
> 
> I am single, I am happy, I am healing, I am on instagram! me... on instagram... ahhhh....
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and thanks to the Veterans affairs and intense therapy, i have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Apparently, I am high functioning, it is all weird to me but learning. I am on the right medication and do feel better. Really good.
> 
> 
> 
> I love catching up with you all.


Ne, this is fantastic news, all of it. And I'm happy to hear about the diagnosis, and that treatment is working well for you. I had suspected something along these lines, but also didn't want to make any armchair diagnosis. I hope this means you will make better choices regarding partners in the future <3

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## ne9907

FeministInPink said:


> Ne, this is fantastic news, all of it. And I'm happy to hear about the diagnosis, and that treatment is working well for you. I had suspected something along these lines, but also didn't want to make any armchair diagnosis. I hope this means you will make better choices regarding partners in the future <3
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You were so right!  Seriously, it is like I am waking up and seeing the world in whole different light. I wondered and am so amazed at me, like... dude you were able to do ALL of that despite how I felt all the time? I feel validated somehow.


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## FeministInPink

Hey, everyone. So, I have some really big news. For those of you who have been on here for a while and who have been following my posts, you will definitely appreciate this.

I GOT A JOB!

I will be recruiting for a medical school. I've been in talks most of the summer, with multiple phone interviews, and they flew me in for my final in-person interview last week. I'm really excited to finally have a full-time gig again, and I have gotten really positive vibes from everyone I've met regarding the work-life balance, and everyone there seems really happy, and I think this will be a great fit for me.

I will be working remotely, so this will definitely be a big change. I obviously have a supervisor, but I will be managing my own schedule and will have a lot more autonomy. They offered me a good salary (better than at my old "real" job, even though this job is easier and has less responsibility) and good benefits.

So... YAY FOR ME!!!

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## Blondilocks

YAY for you! Go get 'em, tiger.


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## Elizabeth001

YOU GO GIRL!

So happy for you!!!




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## 3Xnocharm

:toast::woohoo:

I am so stinkin happy for you FIP!!


----------



## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> Hey, everyone. So, I have some really big news. For those of you who have been on here for a while and who have been following my posts, you will definitely appreciate this.
> 
> I GOT A JOB!
> 
> I will be recruiting for a medical school. I've been in talks most of the summer, with multiple phone interviews, and they flew me in for my final in-person interview last week. I'm really excited to finally have a full-time gig again, and I have gotten really positive vibes from everyone I've met regarding the work-life balance, and everyone there seems really happy, and I think this will be a great fit for me.
> 
> I will be working remotely, so this will definitely be a big change. I obviously have a supervisor, but I will be managing my own schedule and will have a lot more autonomy. They offered me a good salary (better than at my old "real" job, even though this job is easier and has less responsibility) and good benefits.
> 
> So... YAY FOR ME!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yeay FIP. I'm super happy for you. It sounds like your patience and positive attitude during this frustrating time has paid off well. Congratulations!!


----------



## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> Hey, everyone. So, I have some really big news. For those of you who have been on here for a while and who have been following my posts, you will definitely appreciate this.
> 
> I GOT A JOB!
> 
> I will be recruiting for a medical school. I've been in talks most of the summer, with multiple phone interviews, and they flew me in for my final in-person interview last week. I'm really excited to finally have a full-time gig again, and I have gotten really positive vibes from everyone I've met regarding the work-life balance, and everyone there seems really happy, and I think this will be a great fit for me.
> 
> I will be working remotely, so this will definitely be a big change. I obviously have a supervisor, but I will be managing my own schedule and will have a lot more autonomy. They offered me a good salary (better than at my old "real" job, even though this job is easier and has less responsibility) and good benefits.
> 
> So... YAY FOR ME!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Of course. Par for the course for Wonder Woman.:wink2:


----------



## Cynthia

@FeministInPink, Yay! That sounds fantastic. I'm very happy for you. I hope you absolutely love this job as you get into it.


----------



## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> Hey, everyone. So, I have some really big news. For those of you who have been on here for a while and who have been following my posts, you will definitely appreciate this.
> 
> I GOT A JOB!
> 
> I will be recruiting for a medical school. I've been in talks most of the summer, with multiple phone interviews, and they flew me in for my final in-person interview last week. I'm really excited to finally have a full-time gig again, and I have gotten really positive vibes from everyone I've met regarding the work-life balance, and everyone there seems really happy, and I think this will be a great fit for me.
> 
> I will be working remotely, so this will definitely be a big change. I obviously have a supervisor, but I will be managing my own schedule and will have a lot more autonomy. They offered me a good salary (better than at my old "real" job, even though this job is easier and has less responsibility) and good benefits.
> 
> So... YAY FOR ME!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Awesome! Congratulations!


----------



## Wolf1974

Congrats @FeministInPink


----------



## PieceOfSky

AVR1962 said:


> I don't understand the male brain. I was to cater to his work schedule and him being tired and I was just supposed to wait around forever?


It’s self-defeating and self-distracting to view this as a “male brain” thing. Your chances improve if you fully expect to be able to find someone available and compatible, and see this one particular male as part of the process of learning to better filter out the bad matches from the good.

Kudos for recognizing and choosing to do what was best for you here.

I know what it’s like to wait around forever. From my own experience and IMHO, it’s not the sex of the brain that’s the problem.


----------



## AVR1962

PieceOfSky said:


> It’s self-defeating and self-distracting to view this as a “male brain” thing. Your chances improve if you fully expect to be able to find someone available and compatible, and see this one particular male as part of the process of learning to better filter out the bad matches from the good.
> 
> Kudos for recognizing and choosing to do what was best for you here.
> 
> I know what it’s like to wait around forever. From my own experience and IMHO, it’s not the sex of the brain that’s the problem.


As I have put this all behind me what I focus on this the red flags I missed and how important it is to heed them. I was joking with a friend that I need to stop praying for wisdom as he keeps sending me situations that I can grow and learn from. While growth in ourselves is all good I do hope one day to have a relationship that has less challenges.


----------



## FeministInPink

AVR1962 said:


> As I have put this all behind me what I focus on this the red flags I missed and how important it is to heed them. I was joking with a friend that I need to stop praying for wisdom as he keeps sending me situations that I can grow and learn from. While growth in ourselves is all good I do hope one day to have a relationship that has less challenges.


Every relationship has challenges, because no one is perfect and no couple can agree on everything all the time and sometimes life just throws you crap and external things can impact the relationship.

The problem I have, and I'm probably not alone in this, is knowing the difference between normal relationship challenges and what is unacceptable. Growing up with a mother who was emotionally abusive conditioned me to believe that dysfunctional, [emotionally] abusive behavior was normal and acceptable, basically a "normal relationship challenge." (Not to mention all the other BS she filled my head with.) 

That kind of stuff is hard to unlearn, and in the process, I find myself questioning everything. Not necessarily second-guessing myself, but looking at nearly every interaction in every relationship--romantic, familial, friendship, professional--and asking myself, is this a healthy behavior? It can be exhausting, but without hypervigilance it can be very easy to slip back into unhealthy patterns/behaviors, because the healthy ones aren't ingrained yet.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Every relationship has challenges, because no one is perfect and no couple can agree on everything all the time and sometimes life just throws you crap and external things can impact the relationship.
> 
> The problem I have, and I'm probably not alone in this, is knowing the difference between normal relationship challenges and what is unacceptable. Growing up with a mother who was emotionally abusive conditioned me to believe that dysfunctional, [emotionally] abusive behavior was normal and acceptable, basically a "normal relationship challenge." (Not to mention all the other BS she filled my head with.)
> 
> That kind of stuff is hard to unlearn, and in the process, I find myself questioning everything. Not necessarily second-guessing myself, but looking at nearly every interaction in every relationship--romantic, familial, friendship, professional--and asking myself, is this a healthy behavior? It can be exhausting, but without hypervigilance it can be very easy to slip back into unhealthy patterns/behaviors, because the healthy ones aren't ingrained yet.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




OMG...are we sisters and I didn’t realize it? 


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----------



## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> OMG...are we sisters and I didn’t realize it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Uh, I actually do have a sister with the same name! LOL

But I think my thought process isn't uncommon to people who have come from dysfunctional FOOs, and who are trying to grow and learn healthier behaviors.

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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> Uh, I actually do have a sister with the same name! LOL
> 
> But I think my thought process isn't uncommon to people who have come from dysfunctional FOOs, and who are trying to grow and learn healthier behaviors.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




No doubt. 


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## rockon

Ynot seems to have abandoned TAM. This thread is still going strong!


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## Not

The last couple of months have been very stressful. I keep posting and running and I apologize for not responding to those leaving me responses. The break up did not go well at all. I got to see a side of him that I had not seen and it broke my heart. I crushed this man and it’s been very difficult as he kept trying to reach out to me. The hurt did finally turn to anger though and I think he’s finally accepted it. It’s been five weeks of hell with him texting me at all hours, I haven’t cried so much in years and got little to no sleep. It feels awful to be the cause of someone else’s pain. I think he thought I was the one.

The most difficult part was that I kept wanting to fix it for him, to try to help him feel better and then trying to be gentle with him and I think that wound up prolonging everything and even making things worse. God it was awful. I’m just not the 180 type and can’t be when the other person did nothing wrong to me. 

WOW has this sucked bad but I think we’ve finally turned a corner with moving on. We’re both back on POF again though my account is hidden and his is not. He bought two puppies and has pics of them on his profile. It was a dumb move because he works all day and doesn’t have his own place but he seems to make bad decisions and that’s why I left. If we were still together he’d be trying to get me to take them during the day all the time.

God, lessons were certainly learned. I fall hard and fast. (But I kept my head on straight at least!) Beware of men who fall so hard so fast, they crash hard! When you break up with someone make it a clean break with no loose ends for him to tug and pull on or you’re just begging for pain. Don’t jump into another relationship right away, take some time to make sure all the gunk from the first one has cleared the system first. Then, don’t do that again!


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## Elizabeth001

rockon said:


> Ynot seems to have abandoned TAM. This thread is still going strong!




I don’t miss him. Negative Nancy with a HUGE chip on his shoulder acting like he’s over his heartbreak but clearly is in major denial. 


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## FeministInPink

Not said:


> The last couple of months have been very stressful. I keep posting and running and I apologize for not responding to those leaving me responses. The break up did not go well at all. I got to see a side of him that I had not seen and it broke my heart. I crushed this man and it’s been very difficult as he kept trying to reach out to me. The hurt did finally turn to anger though and I think he’s finally accepted it. It’s been five weeks of hell with him texting me at all hours, I haven’t cried so much in years and got little to no sleep. It feels awful to be the cause of someone else’s pain. I think he thought I was the one.
> 
> 
> 
> The most difficult part was that I kept wanting to fix it for him, to try to help him feel better and then trying to be gentle with him and I think that wound up prolonging everything and even making things worse. God it was awful. I’m just not the 180 type and can’t be when the other person did nothing wrong to me.
> 
> 
> 
> WOW has this sucked bad but I think we’ve finally turned a corner with moving on. We’re both back on POF again though my account is hidden and his is not. He bought two puppies and has pics of them on his profile. It was a dumb move because he works all day and doesn’t have his own place but he seems to make bad decisions and that’s why I left. If we were still together he’d be trying to get me to take them during the day all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> God, lessons were certainly learned. I fall hard and fast with the right guy. (But I kept my head on straight at least!) Beware of men who fall so hard so fast, they crash hard! When you break up with someone make it a clean break with no loose ends for him to tug and pull on or you’re just begging for pain. Don’t jump into another relationship right away, take some time to make sure all the gunk from the first one has cleared the system first. Then, don’t do that again!


I'm glad you're holding firm with this. That wasn't a good fit for you, and now you can look for the right fit.

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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I don’t miss him. Negative Nancy with a HUGE chip on his shoulder acting like he’s over his heartbreak but clearly is in major denial.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe that's so, but it's also why he SHOULD be here. This thread can help people work through that kind of crap.

He and I quite a few PMs and had exchanges here and on other threads. He's not that bad 

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## Faithful Wife

Ok finally time to update this thread!!

I have a new boyfriend. He was introduced to me by a friend, she knows him because they work together.

As I said on another thread, we did 3 dates in 3 days and therefore, hit the 3 rule mark, so we had sex on the 3rd date, which was last night.

Hot damn, he's a keeper! 

This was a joke, we did not actually have a 3 date rule, but we both laughed about it.

Next date, Friday, and we will probably spend a good part of the weekend together.

He's super fun and sexy. He loves golf so I asked him to take me to the range to hit a bucket of balls soon, something I enjoy doing but I'm really horrible at it. Last night at his place, we watched part of his favorite movie which is Tin Cup. (Didn't finish it because we had to get it on for the second time, hee!). Anyway I think I saw that movie long ago but I didn't really remember it. It was cute. We can finish it on Friday. I have to see if Tin Cup wins the US Open or not.

The reason I feel ok moving this fast is because neither of us want to get remarried, live together, or be committed to the extent that we have to rearrange our lives or anything. We both just want someone to eat, drink, have sex and watch movies with basically! I mean, I don't need or want to go on elaborate dates (would rather stay in and have sex and cook together). We can travel together if we want to, but can travel alone if we want. He has 2 kids who are 11 - 13, so he has several more years of parenting to do. That works for me because I will love that there will be some weekends he has with his kids when I will have all my time to myself.

He's really sweet and very attentive. Texts me all day, but not too much. We are very smitten and smitten is exactly how I want to feel right now!! Squeeeee!!

PS....now that I've met this guy, who I will call Silver Fox, I'm less sad about the last short term boyfriend who had to break up because of his family tragedy. Looking back at it, this one and I have more in common. Just goes to show, what seems like a loss at first might make way for something better around the corner.

PSS....tonight is kareoke Wednesday, so I'll be singing my heart out alllll the love songs!!


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## RandomDude

My girlfriend shared with me that one of her best friends, who had been cheated on repeatedly by her boyfriend and is a complete doormat finally took a stand... after a year.

For a year now I've been telling my girlfriend to tell her that it's her own fault she's a doormat, to tell her to stop calling my girlfriend and wasting her time if she isn't going to do anything about womaning up, and to tell her that I'm laughing at how weak and pathetic she is and that the reason it's all happening to her is because she allows it. Of course... my girlfriend was much more tactful and never allowed me to speak my mind with this... (if only!)

But FINALLY, she decided to stand up for herself. And what did it take? For him to do emotional blackmail by cutting himself on skype if she didn't forgive him and get back with him :rofl:

My girlfriend and I ended up laughing, and I told my girlfriend to tell her friend to just call the police on him so his attempt at emotional blackmail just gets him locked up overnight in a mental ward for suicide prevention lol... sadly it didn't happen like that. But seriously, people have no standards sometimes. And the reason she says? Fear - of not finding someone else.

Now she's traumatised, and STILL calling my girlfriend.


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## notmyjamie

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok finally time to update this thread!!
> 
> I have a new boyfriend. He was introduced to me by a friend, she knows him because they work together.
> 
> As I said on another thread, we did 3 dates in 3 days and therefore, hit the 3 rule mark, so we had sex on the 3rd date, which was last night.
> 
> Hot damn, he's a keeper!


Sounds great!!! I love that you love that he will not be free and looking to spend time with you every weekend. I work every other weekend and because of that, I have 2 days off during the week each week. I could never give up that alone time!!! Some people act like I'm crazy for liking my time to myself.

Have fun with all the squeeing!!!


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## notmyjamie

RandomDude said:


> But FINALLY, she decided to stand up for herself. And what did it take? For him to do emotional blackmail by cutting himself on skype if she didn't forgive him and get back with him :rofl:
> 
> Now she's traumatised, and STILL calling my girlfriend.


Ugh...my ex from many years ago used to threaten to kill himself if I left him. It was horrible. For one person to put that much responsibility on another is just a very cruel thing to do. In the end, I did leave and he did not kill himself. And I bet this guy has no plans to kill himself either...it's just pure manipulation to get her to do what he wants. Asshat.


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## EmeryB

Just gonna pop in here and check out the Singles thread and say "hello".... so HELLO!!

Faithful Wife - that sounds like the perfect relationship to me. I LOVE alone time. No way do I ever want to be around a man constantly. I have good friends and want to be able to do my own thing. My current boyfriend understands that so our relationship is working out. I had so many fights about this with my previous boyfriend ----- which is why he became my "previous boyfriend"!! LOL!! 


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## Faithful Wife

Had a great weekend full of sex and grilled steaks. Yummm!

Something hilarious came up. Somehow we got to talking about porn and I just kind of stopped in my tracks. I knew where it was going to go and it did. I tried to avert it but was unsuccessful.

Basically it came down to me saying that we should probably keep our solo habits private for now. He followed up with “oh so what do you like to watch? Are you afraid I’ll judge you or something? I promise I won’t.”

Sigh....

The reason I don’t want to tell him is that it will freak him out and make him feel inadequate and insecure.

But he thinks I’m just “shy” and that I probably watch something vanilla and am too embarrassed to say I watch it at all.

I finally told him I’m not going to tell him and that’s that. He said ok, but he is in his mind thinking “oh how cute she likes a little bit of porn now and then but is too much of a lady to admit it” while he probably imagines I’m watching some lame garden variety threesome crap and that I think this is too shocking to admit or something.

Lol. He will just have to wonder forever. The truth would not be what he wants to hear and I don’t want to scare him off yet!


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## Andy1001

Faithful Wife said:


> Had a great weekend full of sex and grilled steaks. Yummm!
> 
> Something hilarious came up. Somehow we got to talking about porn and I just kind of stopped in my tracks. I knew where it was going to go and it did. I tried to avert it but was unsuccessful.
> 
> Basically it came down to me saying that we should probably keep our solo habits private for now. He followed up with “oh so what do you like to watch? Are you afraid I’ll judge you or something? I promise I won’t.”
> 
> Sigh....
> 
> The reason I don’t want to tell him is that it will freak him out and make him feel inadequate and insecure.
> 
> But he thinks I’m just “shy” and that I probably watch something vanilla and am too embarrassed to say I watch it at all.
> 
> I finally told him I’m not going to tell him and that’s that. He said ok, but he is in his mind thinking “oh how cute she likes a little bit of porn now and then but is too much of a lady to admit it” while he probably imagines I’m watching some lame garden variety threesome crap and that I think this is too shocking to admit or something.
> 
> Lol. He will just have to wonder forever. The truth would not be what he wants to hear and I don’t want to scare him off yet!


MJJean wrote once about seeing a porn movie where the “star” was a clown. 
When he “came” he ejaculated popcorn!
I think I’d like to see that one.


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## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> Had a great weekend full of sex and grilled steaks. Yummm!
> 
> Something hilarious came up. Somehow we got to talking about porn and I just kind of stopped in my tracks. I knew where it was going to go and it did. I tried to avert it but was unsuccessful.
> 
> Basically it came down to me saying that we should probably keep our solo habits private for now. He followed up with “oh so what do you like to watch? Are you afraid I’ll judge you or something? I promise I won’t.”
> 
> Sigh....
> 
> The reason I don’t want to tell him is that it will freak him out and make him feel inadequate and insecure.
> 
> But he thinks I’m just “shy” and that I probably watch something vanilla and am too embarrassed to say I watch it at all.
> 
> I finally told him I’m not going to tell him and that’s that. He said ok, but he is in his mind thinking “oh how cute she likes a little bit of porn now and then but is too much of a lady to admit it” while he probably imagines I’m watching some lame garden variety threesome crap and that I think this is too shocking to admit or something.
> 
> Lol. He will just have to wonder forever. The truth would not be what he wants to hear and I don’t want to scare him off yet!




Had a sex chat with the fella I met and he acted like an embarrassed 13 year old. How ridiculous at our age. Also a call yesterday where he spoke to me like I was the naggy wife asking him to stop for milk and bread on the way home. I called it quits today. I don’t have time for that BS. 


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## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> MJJean wrote once about seeing a porn movie where the “star” was a clown.
> 
> When he “came” he ejaculated popcorn!
> 
> I think I’d like to see that one.




This would scar me for life. Clowns are ****ing scary! The first nightmare I ever had was about a clown...


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## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> Had a sex chat with the fella I met and he acted like an embarrassed 13 year old. How ridiculous at our age. Also a call yesterday where he spoke to me like I was the naggy wife asking him to stop for milk and bread on the way home. I called it quits today. I don’t have time for that BS.


Uh oh! Yep, red flags, do not pass go, go directly to NEXT!

Better to move on quicker than slower.

I am not sure how long I'll keep mine around either. I figure they are good for a few months before something about them annoys me. If they make it that long, then I consider a few more months.


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## Faithful Wife

Andy1001 said:


> MJJean wrote once about seeing a porn movie where the “star” was a clown.
> When he “came” he ejaculated popcorn!
> I think I’d like to see that one.


I actually know some clowns. Like, actual ones, where that is their fetish. They get along well with furries (and other clowns and clown lovers, of course). It's a thing. Not my thing but definitely is a thing.


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## Faithful Wife

Saw my beau last night, but won't get to see him until next Monday now, boo! I had a few reservations about him here and there, but the more time I spend with him, the fewer I have, and the more I like him.

And along those lines, I have to post this song, one of my favorites from one of my favorite shows. This song is not 100% me (because I don't have the feels quite in the same way) but similar to how I'm feeling in general. Plus, it's hilarious.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Saw my beau last night, but won't get to see him until next Monday now, boo! I had a few reservations about him here and there, but the more time I spend with him, the fewer I have, and the more I like him.


I'm being nosey....what reservations did you have? And what has made you reconsider them?


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saw my beau last night, but won't get to see him until next Monday now, boo! I had a few reservations about him here and there, but the more time I spend with him, the fewer I have, and the more I like him.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm being nosey....what reservations did you have? And what has made you reconsider them?
Click to expand...

Well it may sound so silly, but I have an issue with people who drive aggressively. I don’t like them on the road, but I also can’t stand to be their passenger. I am afraid of car accidents due to my brother’s accident years ago which left him a paraplegic. I can’t handle sitting there with a driver who doesn’t seem to understand how quickly you can hurt yourself and others. 

So anyway I was in the truck with him briefly on Saturday and he made a few moves that set me on edge. I judged a bit too hard based on that and then later in his truck he did not drive too aggressive, IMO.

But I also now have the sense that if he is driving that way in the future, I can just ask him not to do that and he will just say “oh sure babe, no problem”. Whereas I’ve been with other dudes who drove aggressively, I asked them to please not do that, and they ended up almost doing it MORE because of what appeared to be a “don’t tell me what to do you’re not my mother” vibe.

That’s essentially what I was afraid of but I feel different now.

The other thing was another “me” thing that I was projecting about because of previous relationships. Which is, I am introverted and I can’t stand it when I’m with people who are extroverted and they talk to EVERYONE. It’s not that they are talking to everyone, it’s that because I’m also there they will try to force me into the conversation too. If they can just talk to whoever but pretend I’m not even there while I wander off so that I don’t have to talk also, I’m fine. But a lot of extroverts don’t understand this and just insist on including me in the conversation too.

So new guy stopped to talk to a couple of strangers and I immediately began to worry about this. 

After a few more dates, I can see that he doesn’t do this all the time and that if he does he doesn’t try to force the conversation on me also. And I also now have the sense that even if he did do that, I can explain to him later that I prefer not to have random conversation with strangers and he would respect that.

Other guys I’ve tried to explain this to immediately think I’m trying to make an issue of their talking to anyone, so they just acted like oh don’t be silly I’m just talking. Instead of saying oh I get it, you are introverted, I will be sensitive to that in the future.

So in other words, my overall sense of him now is that if I express displeasure about little things like this he will just accommodate me instead of dig his heels in. And that’s all I need really. To be accommodated rather than mocked.


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## Faithful Wife

Leaning in a bit more on this topic. Warning, what follows is totally woo woo.

So I’ve learned now that everything and everyone I attract is because of my own law of attraction. And I have been strongly attracted to the same type of man for a long time, and every time that man just happens to also exhibit the kinds of things that have caused problems in my previous relationships.

But he also turns me on endlessly. So I keep going for that type of man, and he keeps showing up. That’s law of attraction in a nutshell.

What I’m trying to do now that is different is to not hold those old images of the negative aspects of those past relationships in my head, and instead focus on the things that worked for me in previous relationships.

And law of attraction brings me more of those things the more I focus on them. This guy is a good guy who is totally into me and it’s mutual. And the sex rocks. If I focus on the best stuff, the other stuff seems to sort itself out.

Caveat: law of attraction will also snap them away quickly if they really aren’t good for me. Because my honest desire right now is to find a great boyfriend. And if he won’t be that for me, he’s gone. That has happened so many times now that I just trust the process. So I know if it’s not right, it won’t last and I’ll have to assume the LOA did me another favor. So far, every time, that has proved to be true. 

End of woo woo rant!


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## 2&out

Thanks for posting the song FW. In my sheltered world I had never heard of her or the TV show. (I watch little TV and follow no shows) She's great ! After sharing this one with my lady friend we then binge watched her videos on Utube and had lots of laughs. Some great stuff. Thx.


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## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> Thanks for posting the song FW. In my sheltered world I had never heard of her or the TV show. (I watch little TV and follow no shows) She's great ! After sharing this one with my lady friend we then binge watched her videos on Utube and had lots of laughs. Some great stuff. Thx.


Oh good I’m so glad to share her stuff, she is so good and hilarious!


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## 2&out

FW. Yes - she is VERY good IMO, and the direct approach is very cool/funny - and refreshing !. 

A drift that 0 care. This thread seams to be pretty dead lately anyway  We had the "normal" Thurs. night get together. She warned me she was in a crappy mood with work/life. Told her I saw a video you might like. Made dinner. We watched. She laughed. I immediately played again. I could almost see the tension run out of her body as she watched again. I did the search thing on TV for more. What good/honest/funny/great stuff. 

Crazy part is my she looks pretty close. Her music "attitude" is close to also. My girlfriend is over my head. I know it - and she knows it. Pretty clear from the beginning. She can find a better looking guy, bigger *ick (I'm average) than me. On our second date she asked me a very pertinent direct question. "Why would I want more than a free dinner from you ?". My because you'll be missing something special, answer - passed. She challenges my big ego while I tell her I'll just buy another. LOL. 

I did married twice. I failed. I really don't want to do again. 2&out. It doesn't mean I don't/can't love. It means I don't want to add the idea of failure to our relationship. But watching these with her... damn you !


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## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> FW. Yes - she is VERY good IMO, and the direct approach is very cool/funny - and refreshing !.
> 
> A drift that 0 care. This thread seams to be pretty dead lately anyway  We had the "normal" Thurs. night get together. She warned me she was in a crappy mood with work/life. Told her I saw a video you might like. Made dinner. We watched. She laughed. I immediately played again. I could almost see the tension run out of her body as she watched again. I did the search thing on TV for more. What good/honest/funny/great stuff.
> 
> Crazy part is my she looks pretty close. Her music "attitude" is close to also. My girlfriend is over my head. I know it - and she knows it. Pretty clear from the beginning. She can find a better looking guy, bigger *ick (I'm average) than me. On our second date she asked me a very pertinent direct question. "Why would I want more than a free dinner from you ?". My because you'll be missing something special, answer - passed. She challenges my big ego while I tell her I'll just buy another. LOL.
> 
> I did married twice. I failed. I really don't want to do again. 2&out. It doesn't mean I don't/can't love. It means I don't want to add the idea of failure to our relationship. But watching these with her... damn you !


Ha ha! That’s awesome!

Did you catch this one? One of my faves. For anyone who can’t relate, this probably isn’t funny. But if you can relate...omg hysterical.


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## FeministInPink

I love Rachel Bloom's stuff. I was lucky enough to see her in a small private performance before she got her show with CW. I thought Crazy Ex-Girlfriend was a great show, and they did a masterful job at presenting mental illness.

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## FeministInPink

So, in Lila's thread, @badsanta wrote something that struck me, and I wanted to respond in regards to myself, but I didn't want to jack Lila's thread. I'm also interested in hearing what others have to say.

I've deleted/edited for any specific reference to Lila's thread, so I shouldn't be violating any forum rules by posting this here.



badsanta said:


> In reading recently there are certain people that go through life and get manipulated and punished because the people around them use what they want as a means to accomplish that. A very good friend of mine is a gourmet chef. The one thing about me that strikes me as so awkward is that he cooks great deserts but yet never eats them. When I asked him why, he said it was because his mother would alway punish him and take away his desert. So out of rebellion he enjoyed learning to NOT enjoy desert. This was his way to punish his mother for punishing him throughout his childhood. She could no longer control him. He is now an older man, his mom long since passed, and to this day he refuses to eat desert because he says, "I've learned not to like it!"
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> The book I am reading has a chapter called "wanted to be wanted but not wanting to want." It is about people that have been hurt very badly throughout their lives for wanting something. So they in turn try to learn how to just learn how to not want to want anything as a means to defend themself. When confronted with the idea that they might want something, they are overcome with an overwhelming fear and do whatever it takes to get away from it by not allowing themselves to want.


I kind of feel like this right now. I have pretty much zero interest in a relationship and the opposite sex right now. (It's not completely zero, but it's close enough.) And I think that the passage above describes me pretty accurately... I've been hurt so badly in the relationships where I allowed myself to be vulnerable, and even when I didn't allow myself to be completely vulnerable, the men were still jerks who ****ed with my head.

I'm kind of at the point where I don't want a man or a relationship, because I see it as a source of pain and frustration, and something that gets in the way of me living the life that I want. So, what's the point?

I can't do casual sex, because I just get attached. And even casual sex... a guy who I had a casual thing with before Real Estate has been sniffing around lately. And the sex with this guy was GOOD, and I didn't get attached to him, and it's been over a year since I've gotten laid. But I'm not jumping at the opportunity... I'm more just like, "Meh." Not interested in returning his texts. I'm more irritated than anything, because he texts me and asks me to come over LATE, and I'm like, Dude, I have a job. I need sleep.

It may be because I have a lot going on right now. I just started my new job, and I'm traveling a LOT for training right now. Like, I'm home on Saturday and Sunday only, otherwise I'm on a plane, in a car, or at a hotel. And when I AM home... I'm doing laundry, packing for my next trip, and STILL trying to finish unpacking/organizing from my move in July. So, when would I even have time for another person? All I can think about, besides my job is how much I need/want to get done and the fact that I don't have the time to do it.

There is one guy I'm kind of interested in... I met him through my trivia team (he's a friend of a teammate). I think he might be interested, but he just had a difficult breakup (broken engagement, moving out of their shared apt). The last time I saw him (3 wks ago), we hung out together one-on-one after trivia, and we ended up comparing schedules to determine when we might see each other again. (Why we didn't exchange info and make actual plans, I have no idea.) I did message him on Facebook the following day, and point blank told him that I was interested, but I don't think he has seen/read the message. At any rate, he hasn't responded or contacted me.

He seems like a really good guy. And my interest in him is literally the only exception to "100% not interested in men or a relationship" right now.

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## Faithful Wife

I don't know for sure FIP, but I kind of think that after our bodies cool down for a year of no sex, we start to go a bit dormant. But that can be a really good thing, it means we do not feel the urge to go chasing after people or sex. But still, if someone comes across your radar and you feel a mutual ping, I think you'll wake right back up.

It's great to go dormant for awhile! You can get so much done!!! Ha!


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't know for sure FIP, but I kind of think that after our bodies cool down for a year of no sex, we start to go a bit dormant. But that can be a really good thing, it means we do not feel the urge to go chasing after people or sex. But still, if someone comes across your radar and you feel a mutual ping, I think you'll wake right back up.
> 
> 
> 
> It's great to go dormant for awhile! You can get so much done!!! Ha!


Yeah... I remember when I was married, and my XH had pretty much stopped having sex with me. For the first year, it drove me crazy... but after that, yeah, my sex drive went dormant. He certainly encouraged it by his decline in personal hygiene.

The first few months after Real Estate and I broke up, I felt like I was going nuts for lack of sex. I went from 4-8 times a week to nothing, cold turkey. But the last six months or so, I've had no drive at all. Like I said, I could have picked it up again with that guy I had a casual thing with before, but I just have no interest at all.

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## lifeistooshort

I think many women are as excited as their most exciting option. We've seen many threads where a hb says his wife isn't into sex and he's told she's actually just not into him, and I think that's true (for the most part). If she met a guy who did it for her she'd get crazy. 

I know I'm this way. I was into sex with my ex until he refused to deal with his ED, which made me feel undesirable. Then I found out about the ex gf and how he had no integrity and my desire shut off.

Right now I think about it because I like sex with the guy I'm seeing.....we have fabulous chemistry and he makes me feel wanted. But if this wasn't the case my sex drive would shut down.


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## Not

I’ve lost interest in dating also. After everything that happened with B, and is actually still ongoing because of new developments, my enthusiasm has bottomed out. My get up and go got up and left.

I remember a conversation I had with him back in May. He wanted to know how some chicks like myself could be so calm and others have so much crazy. I told him I thought it was probably due to how they had been treated by men in the past. Crazy chicks have a bad rap but it’s because jerk men know just what to do to push buttons and some seem to thrive on pushing those buttons and upset the chicks. 

B wasn’t doing any of that button pushing with me, not until we broke up. The change in his behavior was so sudden and so obvious after we broke up that he proved the point I had made to him about crazy chicks. B tried so very hard to get me crack after we broke up. It was so obvious he was doing it to prove I was the messed up one. I did end up losing it with him as I told him to once again leave me the hell alone. Not the begging and pleading to get back together he was expecting though.

All of that combined with his ex wife now contacting me to ask for help with some things he’s done has left me feeling like dating just isn’t worth it. But is this the right attitude? Yes, I do need time to recover but why let him stop me from finding someone to be happy with? I deserve some happiness but damn if I can’t work up any enthusiasm for it. It’s easy to sit here using simple logic and tell myself I should get back out there but I sort of feel like the dessert guy, like some part of me is trying to prove I don’t need to date.....because.....why? I don’t know.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not, you need to purge him and his ex (??wtf??) out of your life, completely. If you dont, then you wont get the recovery time you need in order to get back into the dating game down the line. 

I am kinda curious though what in the world she would possibly have the nerve to be contacting you about.


----------



## FeministInPink

Not said:


> I’ve lost interest in dating also. After everything that happened with B, and is actually still ongoing because of new developments, my enthusiasm has bottomed out. My get up and go got up and left.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember a conversation I had with him back in May. He wanted to know how some chicks like myself could be so calm and others have so much crazy. I told him I thought it was probably due to how they had been treated by men in the past. Crazy chicks have a bad rap but it’s because jerk men know just what to do to push buttons and some seem to thrive on pushing those buttons and upset the chicks.
> 
> 
> 
> B wasn’t doing any of that button pushing with me, not until we broke up. The change in his behavior was so sudden and so obvious after we broke up that he proved the point I had made to him about crazy chicks. B tried so very hard to get me crack after we broke up. It was so obvious he was doing it to prove I was the messed up one. I did end up losing it with him as I told him to once again leave me the hell alone. Not the begging and pleading to get back together he was expecting though.
> 
> 
> 
> All of that combined with his ex wife now contacting me to ask for help with some things he’s done has left me feeling like dating just isn’t worth it. But is this the right attitude? Yes, I do need time to recover but why let him stop me from finding someone to be happy with? I deserve some happiness but damn if I can’t work up any enthusiasm for it. It’s easy to sit here using simple logic and tell myself I should get back out there but I sort of feel like the dessert guy, like some part of me is trying to prove I don’t need to date.....because.....why? I don’t know.


Not, you owe NOTHING to his XW. (WTF? SERIOUSLY???) Repeat after me:

Not my circus, not my monkeys.

Her problems are HERS, not yours.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Not

3x and FIP, I know and believe me I want to wash my hands of him and everything related to him. It’s ironic the amount of drama he’s brought into my life when he seemed so happy to meet a drama free chick!

The latest is bizarre. It involves nude photos taken without consent, an $11k wedding ring, blackmail and now a lawsuit lol! I couldn’t make this stuff up! I saw the photos in B’s phone thinking they were a stroll down memory lane type of thing but nope. She’s asking me to sign a legal document stating I saw them in his possession. I feel for his ex because those photos may be going public but he’s her mistake and she’ll have to clean that up herself. 

I do feel guilty about it a little.

My boss asked me what I would do if it were me and I told him I wouldn’t care. I’m not ashamed or embarrassed by my body, bring on the photos lol! The ex has a fantastic body! If she were to take this attitude the whole thing would blow over and take the wind out of B’s sails.

This all started just in the past couple of days and I’ve yet to tell her I won’t be helping. I’m not very good at stuff like that.


----------



## Blondilocks

Not said:


> 3x and FIP, I know and believe me I want to wash my hands of him and everything related to him. It’s ironic the amount of drama he’s brought into my life when he seemed so happy to meet a drama free chick!
> 
> The latest is bizarre. It involves nude photos taken without consent, an $11k wedding ring, blackmail and now a lawsuit lol! I couldn’t make this stuff up! I saw the photos in B’s phone thinking they were a stroll down memory lane type of thing but nope. She’s asking me to sign a legal document stating I saw them in his possession. I feel for his ex because those photos may be going public but he’s her mistake and she’ll have to clean that up herself.
> 
> I do feel guilty about it a little.
> 
> My boss asked me what I would do if it were me and I told him I wouldn’t care. I’m not ashamed or embarrassed by my body, bring on the photos lol! The ex has a fantastic body! If she were to take this attitude the whole thing would blow over and take the wind out of B’s sails.
> 
> This all started just in the past couple of days and I’ve yet to tell her I won’t be helping. I’m not very good at stuff like that.


So, when you find out he took nude photos of you without your permission, you'll be ok with it?


----------



## notmyjamie

Not said:


> 3x and FIP, I know and believe me I want to wash my hands of him and everything related to him. It’s ironic the amount of drama he’s brought into my life when he seemed so happy to meet a drama free chick!
> 
> 
> Of course he was...if you were tied up with your own drama you'd have no time for his.
> 
> 
> The latest is bizarre. It involves nude photos taken without consent, an $11k wedding ring, blackmail and now a lawsuit lol! I couldn’t make this stuff up! I saw the photos in B’s phone thinking they were a stroll down memory lane type of thing but nope. She’s asking me to sign a legal document stating I saw them in his possession. I feel for his ex because those photos may be going public but he’s her mistake and she’ll have to clean that up herself.
> 
> That's a tough one to be honest. She's another human being and he has done something despicable to her. If she let him take them I'd say it's on her but knowing he did it on the sly and plans to make them public is actually a crime. I feel bad for her.
> 
> I do feel guilty about it a little.
> 
> My boss asked me what I would do if it were me and I told him I wouldn’t care. I’m not ashamed or embarrassed by my body, bring on the photos lol! The ex has a fantastic body! If she were to take this attitude the whole thing would blow over and take the wind out of B’s sails.
> 
> Even if I had the hottest body on the planet I'd feel violated to have someone show it to the world without my consent.
> 
> 
> This all started just in the past couple of days and I’ve yet to tell her I won’t be helping. I’m not very good at stuff like that.
> 
> I'd tell her quickly as she's probably banking on you to help stop it and she needs to know she's gonna have to change her game plan. That's the very least you could do as another woman.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I don't know your story, @Not, but wow, that's some drama! I hope you're doing ok.


----------



## Not

Blondilocks said:


> So, when you find out he took nude photos of you without your permission, you'll be ok with it?


I answered that in my post you quoted.


----------



## Not

notmyjamie-

I felt just like you about it at first but have since changed my mind. She dragged their divorce out for two years and tried pulling some things that were just wrong in the process. She’s not a weak person, she’s angry and a tad vindictive. If I knew for sure that just signing a paper is all that would be asked of me I’d do it but I’m not willing to get involved in something that could drag on and on and on. And come to find out she knew about the pictures already and didn’t approach me about it until she knew he had cashed out his divorce settlement. I don’t trust that she’s got my best interest in mind.


----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't know your story, @Not, but wow, that's some drama! I hope you're doing ok.



Thanks FW. I’m actually still up and down. The feelings I had for him were strong and still sneak up on me. I’m hanging in there though! :smile2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

For all of us but especially @Ms.Hawaii tonight....(hope you smile)...


----------



## FeministInPink

Not said:


> notmyjamie-
> 
> I felt just like you about it at first but have since changed my mind. She dragged their divorce out for two years and tried pulling some things that were just wrong in the process. She’s not a weak person, she’s angry and a tad vindictive. If I knew for sure that just signing a paper is all that would be asked of me I’d do it but I’m not willing to get involved in something that could drag on and on and on. And come to find out she knew about the pictures already and didn’t approach me about it until she knew he had cashed out his divorce settlement. I don’t trust that she’s got my best interest in mind.


Yeah, I would be suspicious of her motives as well, given what you know of their history. I have a feeling that when you tell her "no," she may try to manipulate you if she can.

It's a difficult line. On one hand, I feel we have an obligation to help one another in putting an end to rape culture and stopping violence against women, especially if we possess information or proof that will put a predator behind bars.

But some women do take advantage and make false claims, and that small percentage make it harder for the rest of us to be taken seriously when we have legitimate claims against predators. Her previous behavior clearly calls her motives into question. How are you, an outsider, expected to know who to believe?

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## Ms. Hawaii

Faithful Wife said:


> For all of us but especially @Ms.Hawaii tonight....(hope you smile)...
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_QtMf6alU




I LOVED IT!! Thank you! It made me feel better lol!


----------



## Not

FeministInPink said:


> Yeah, I would be suspicious of her motives as well, given what you know of their history. I have a feeling that when you tell her "no," she may try to manipulate you if she can.
> 
> It's a difficult line. On one hand, I feel we have an obligation to help one another in putting an end to rape culture and stopping violence against women, especially if we possess information or proof that will put a predator behind bars.
> 
> But some women do take advantage and make false claims, and that small percentage make it harder for the rest of us to be taken seriously when we have legitimate claims against predators. Her previous behavior clearly calls her motives into question. How are you, an outsider, expected to know who to believe?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Exactly, I honestly don’t know what to believe. They were both at each other’s throats during their divorce. Better if I step away I think. They’ve both told me some whopper stories about each other and all of the stories have been pathetic.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> Exactly, I honestly don’t know what to believe. They were both at each other’s throats during their divorce. Better if I step away I think. They’ve both told me some whopper stories about each other and all of the stories have been pathetic.


Block them both and give yourself peace.


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## Cynthia

3Xnocharm said:


> Block them both and give yourself peace.


Normally I would say that you should testify, but you are right, this is not your problem and it's better to get out of their whirlwind to safety. It sounds like they are abusing each other and escalating. Getting into the middle of that is dangerous.


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## Not

Focusing on other things is what I need and am doing now. D17 and I are going today to join a local gym. I’d like to focus on just simply building stamina, I’m too tired and worn out everyday and I shouldn’t be because I never do anything. I don’t want to lose weight or build muscle, I just want try to feel better physically. 

I’m also taking her in to take her permit test this afternoon. I got her a job where her sister used to work before she moved and that has given her the incentive she needed to get this done. She’s been studying for the test for a few weeks and thinks she’s ready. Fingers crossed! 

I’m also thinking of buying a gun and taking classes. As a female living alone with another younger female with me I’d like to have that protection in my home. I actually think I’d really like joining a female gun club. I’ve fired weapons many times and am a decent shot. I’m also toying with the idea of self defense classes, after I build some strength and endurance from the gym. 

If I’m going to be alone I want to feel confident that I can take care of my own. And these things will get me out of the house and maybe I can make some friends along the way.


----------



## wilson

Not said:


> D17 and I are going today to join a local gym. I’d like to focus on just simply building stamina, I’m too tired and worn out everyday and I shouldn’t be because I never do anything. I don’t want to lose weight or build muscle, I just want try to feel better physically.


Join a gym that has lots of classes. Many classes are fun in their own right, and you'll get a great workout as a bonus. Dance-based classes are usually the most fun. Everyone leaves with a smile on their face. Zumba is usually one of the simplest, but there all different classes with different music and something for everyone. If you're looking for something with a bit more oomph, take a kickboxing class. And yoga classes are great for a more calming and relaxing experience. 

If you're an exercise newbie, stay away from treadmills and such. Although they are fine for what they do, they aren't really the most enjoyable way to workout. If you already have the internal motivation to exercise they can be a great way to workout, but they aren't the most motivating on their own.


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## AVR1962

In previous posts I mentioned the man I have been dating, referring to him as my "tiger." We met in June. I have let him do the chasing and the planning of our dates. He has paid for everything. We have gone to a couple concerts, a movie, dinner, comedy club, BBQ and walk in the park, he took me out for cheesecake, bowling. We have opened up to each other about our past relationships and what we felt went wrong in our marriage. Last Sunday he told me he had a dream about me which told me he is thinking of me. We have talked on all kinds of topics and we mesh in conversation. This man is alot of fun and cracks me up. Our last date as I am cracking up over a story he just told me he says, "You like my stories, don't you?" So he understands without words. 

I am actually starting to have feelings for him. I am trying to keep my head straight and tell myself to just keep the emotions out of this and get to know him. I have been very careful to not involve myself in his day to day life. He will tell me things and I lend support. I have not asked him to my house. I have just let him pursue. However, I am thinking of actually asking him to go do something. I know it should not be so hard but all the advise out there is to let the man do the pursuing. Thoughts??


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## Andy1001

If he’s interested in a particular type of music or theater or even something like rodeo or car shows just tell him you’re going to a particular event and would he like to join you. 
This way there’s no pressure and you’re making it clear that you’re going anyway.


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## FeministInPink

Andy1001 said:


> If he’s interested in a particular type of music or theater or even something like rodeo or car shows just tell him you’re going to a particular event and would he like to join you.
> 
> This way there’s no pressure and you’re making it clear that you’re going anyway.


 @AVR1962 I like Andy's approach here. It shows that you have your own life, and you do your own thing, but your are welcoming him to become a part of that.

Honestly, if you've been seeing him for almost six months now, I think it's ok if you're starting to develop feelings for him. It might be time to ask yourself, what do you want from this relationship? From what you say, it's clear you both like each other a lot. It might time to let down your guard a bit and let him in, emotionally.

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## Faithful Wife

Ok after a few great weeks with Mr. Silver Fox....I broke it off with him yesterday.

Long story short, he just has limited time because his kids are still tweens. Add that to his job and his hobbies, he just doesn't have a lot of free time. At least, not the amount of time that I want/require in order to stay interested.

It just made me feel bad to take his time away from the rest of his life, because if I did that it would mean he never ever got a moment to himself or to do things for himself and not someone else. 

I have all of my time to myself and lots of time to devote to a relationship, even a casual one. Meaning, I can easily hang out two or three times every week and even some weekend nights, too, and that would still leave me plenty of time for my own hobbies/friends/family. He would have to be stretching it to spend two evenings with me and then I felt guilty because he didn't get to do anything else.

So even though he protested, I set him free. No hard feelings (except the good kind, heh heh).

Onward and upward. I will know better next time, they really need to have at least close to the same amount of free time that I do, because what I'm looking for does require some regular in person attendance. 0


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok after a few great weeks with Mr. Silver Fox....I broke it off with him yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> Long story short, he just has limited time because his kids are still tweens. Add that to his job and his hobbies, he just doesn't have a lot of free time. At least, not the amount of time that I want/require in order to stay interested.
> 
> 
> 
> It just made me feel bad to take his time away from the rest of his life, because if I did that it would mean he never ever got a moment to himself or to do things for himself and not someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> I have all of my time to myself and lots of time to devote to a relationship, even a casual one. Meaning, I can easily hang out two or three times every week and even some weekend nights, too, and that would still leave me plenty of time for my own hobbies/friends/family. He would have to be stretching it to spend two evenings with me and then I felt guilty because he didn't get to do anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> So even though he protested, I set him free. No hard feelings (except the good kind, heh heh).
> 
> 
> 
> Onward and upward. I will know better next time, they really need to have at least close to the same amount of free time that I do, because what I'm looking for does require some regular in person attendance. 0


This is the main reason, aside from the fact that I don't want kids, why I won't date someone with kids. 

I'm sorry to hear this, FW. But if it wasn't a good fit for you, it wasn't a good fit.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok after a few great weeks with Mr. Silver Fox....I broke it off with him yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> Long story short, he just has limited time because his kids are still tweens. Add that to his job and his hobbies, he just doesn't have a lot of free time. At least, not the amount of time that I want/require in order to stay interested.
> 
> 
> 
> It just made me feel bad to take his time away from the rest of his life, because if I did that it would mean he never ever got a moment to himself or to do things for himself and not someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> I have all of my time to myself and lots of time to devote to a relationship, even a casual one. Meaning, I can easily hang out two or three times every week and even some weekend nights, too, and that would still leave me plenty of time for my own hobbies/friends/family. He would have to be stretching it to spend two evenings with me and then I felt guilty because he didn't get to do anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> So even though he protested, I set him free. No hard feelings (except the good kind, heh heh).
> 
> 
> 
> Onward and upward. I will know better next time, they really need to have at least close to the same amount of free time that I do, because what I'm looking for does require some regular in person attendance. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_angel.png" border="0" alt="" title="Angel" ></a>
> 
> 
> 
> This is the main reason, aside from the fact that I don't want kids, why I won't date someone with kids.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear this, FW. But if it wasn't a good fit for you, it wasn't a good fit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It’s all good. He wanted to keep seeing me but I just couldn’t let him use up all of his free time on me. It made me feel bad like I would run him into the ground eventually.

I normally also avoid guys with young-ish kids. But I gave this one a shot because we met through a common friend so I knew more about him than meeting someone from OLD. And because we live so close to each other. But no more exceptions for kids going forward. 

No regrets though! He totally rocked my world for a couple of weeks and it was worth every minute of it.


----------



## Blondilocks

FW, if spending time with a woman twice a week would be too much for him, then he doesn't need a girlfriend - he needs a fwb. There are seven evenings in a week - it isn't too difficult to devote 2 to a girlfriend.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Blondilocks said:


> FW, if spending time with a woman twice a week would be too much for him, then he doesn't need a girlfriend - he needs a fwb. There are seven evenings in a week - it isn't too difficult to devote 2 to a girlfriend.


Yes that’s exactly what he needs. While I need a real boyfriend.


----------



## curious2

Is a “boyfriend” what you really want? It sounds to me like you want an exclusive sexual relationship. You want frequent sex but without complications or commitment beyond that. That’s my impression from some of the things you’ve said. I may be wrong...


----------



## Faithful Wife

curious2 said:


> Is a “boyfriend” what you really want? It sounds to me like you want an exclusive sexual relationship. You want frequent sex but without complications or commitment beyond that. That’s my impression from some of the things you’ve said. I may be wrong...


I also want to be really into each other, have great conversation, companionship, etc.

The fact that I don’t want complications or commitment doesn’t mean that I don’t want to care deeply and have feelings for them also.

That’s why I don’t just look for a FWB. The sex has to be there and it has to be great, but that can’t be the only thing there or I will lose interest very quickly.

I have to feel mutual respect and fondness with them. 

I call that a boyfriend because I don’t know what else to call it. It’s ok if we fall in love too, I’m not ruling that out. It’s just not my main goal.


----------



## notmyjamie

Sorry things didn't work out FW...glad you enjoyed the 2 weeks you had together though.

I got a text from my boyfriend this morning that today is his 25th anniversary. :surprise: Not quite sure how to help him through the day. He said he wants to do something special with me so I guess I'll let him guide the evening. I feel sad for him even knowing that I wouldn't even know him if he were still happily married. Strange.


----------



## curious2

Faithful Wife said:


> curious2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is a “boyfriend” what you really want? It sounds to me like you want an exclusive sexual relationship. You want frequent sex but without complications or commitment beyond that. That’s my impression from some of the things you’ve said. I may be wrong...
> 
> 
> 
> I also want to be really into each other, have great conversation, companionship, etc.
> 
> The fact that I don’t want complications or commitment doesn’t mean that I don’t want to care deeply and have feelings for them also.
> 
> That’s why I don’t just look for a FWB. The sex has to be there and it has to be great, but that can’t be the only thing there or I will lose interest very quickly.
> 
> I have to feel mutual respect and fondness with them.
> 
> I call that a boyfriend because I don’t know what else to call it. It’s ok if we fall in love too, I’m not ruling that out. It’s just not my main goal.
Click to expand...

How do you care deeply yet stay unattached?


----------



## curious2

notmyjamie said:


> Sorry things didn't work out FW...glad you enjoyed the 2 weeks you had together though.
> 
> I got a text from my boyfriend this morning that today is his 25th anniversary.  Not quite sure how to help him through the day. He said he wants to do something special with me so I guess I'll let him guide the evening. I feel sad for him even knowing that I wouldn't even know him if he were still happily married. Strange.


It’s nice that you are empathetic but why would want to help your current boyfriend through this day? It would mean to me he wasn’t ready to be a boyfriend. Just trying to wrap my head around how this ok for you. I would guess you are not looking for a real relationship? Just companionship?


----------



## Faithful Wife

curious2 said:


> How do you care deeply yet stay unattached?


I never said unattached, I said not committed. To me that means, not committed to a future together. I will be very attached to him for the duration of the relationship.

You may be reading too much into certain words I'm using and ignoring other ones.

Most guys I'm dating feel the same. They are divorced, they don't want to be married again, they want to feel close and connected to a person without it having to be full on "love" and all those bells and whistles. They don't want to live with anyone or share finances.

I'm not sure how old you are but this is pretty common at my age.


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## Faithful Wife

I wish I could say certain things on my OLD profile but I dislike profiles that say too many things about what someone doesn’t want. So I never do this. But if I could be totally honest I would say...

Deal breakers:

Kids who are still dependent on you.

No earrings on white guys. Ok sometimes on others but still not my fave.

No dead fish pics.

If the house in the background of your pics looks disheveled.

If it looks like you cropped your ex out of your pictures. 

If all of your pics are of you in athletic wear or camping.

If you are making a hang ten sign with your hand. Might make an exception if you are actually Hawaiian.

If you have pets, probably a deal breaker because I’m allergic to some and won’t sleep or have sex in a bed that pets have been on.

If you have no full body pictures.

Too many pics of cars and boats (not impressed).

Bad tattoos. Good ones are ok.

Guns in pics. I don’t actually care if you have them but if you think they are “cool” in a profile pic, no thanks.

If you don’t know what you are looking for or if you want “something casual”.

Must be a certain height. If your profile doesn’t specify I will assume you don’t meet my minimum requirements.

No musicians unless you are financially stable and it’s just your hobby (or if it’s a lucrative career).

If you are so ripped its obvious your entire life is about the gym.

.....

I’m so picky! I can’t say those things though. I just left swipe and move along.

And that doesn’t even include my requirements for political leanings, age range and no poly people, and generally doesn’t come across as a douche.

ETA: I forgot to add...

No weird jewelry.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> I wish I could say certain things on my OLD profile but I dislike profiles that say too many things about what someone doesn’t want. So I never do this. But if I could be totally honest I would say...
> 
> Deal breakers:
> 
> Kids who are still dependent on you.
> 
> No earrings on white guys. Ok sometimes on others but still not my fave.
> 
> No dead fish pics.
> 
> If the house in the background of your pics looks disheveled.
> 
> If it looks like you cropped your ex out of your pictures.
> 
> If all of your pics are of you in athletic wear or camping.
> 
> If you are making a hang ten sign with your hand. Might make an exception if you are actually Hawaiian.
> 
> If you have pets, probably a deal breaker because I’m allergic to some and won’t sleep or have sex in a bed that pets have been on.
> 
> If you have no full body pictures.
> 
> Too many pics of cars and boats (not impressed).
> 
> Bad tattoos. Good ones are ok.
> 
> Guns in pics. I don’t actually care if you have them but if you think they are “cool” in a profile pic, no thanks.
> 
> If you don’t know what you are looking for or if you want “something casual”.
> 
> Must be a certain height. If your profile doesn’t specify I will assume you don’t meet my minimum requirements.
> 
> No musicians unless you are financially stable and it’s just your hobby (or if it’s a lucrative career).
> 
> If you are so ripped its obvious your entire life is about the gym.
> 
> .....
> 
> I’m so picky! I can’t say those things though. I just left swipe and move along.
> 
> And that doesn’t even include my requirements for political leanings, age range and no poly people, and generally doesn’t come across as a douche.
> 
> ETA: I forgot to add...
> 
> No weird jewelry.




lol

I tried that on my profile once. Got some pretty nasty messages 


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## sunsetmist

@Faithful Wife. I am more sad than you (I think) about the demise of your silver fox. It is good to be picky, so it is not that. There was something about the way you talked about him that gave such good vibes. And he sounded really into you.


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## Faithful Wife

sunsetmist said:


> @Faithful Wife. I am more sad than you (I think) about the demise of your silver fox. It is good to be picky, so it is not that. There was something about the way you talked about him that gave such good vibes. And he sounded really into you.


Yeah, I’m a little bummed too, but honestly, I just need someone who has more time. So I can’t really compromise on what I really need or I’ll just be resentful and that wouldn’t be fair to either of us.

I’m free and clear and ready to go out or hang out or stay in or travel with someone or decide on a whim to drive to the beach together for the weekend. Silver fox has lots more years of parenting to do before he can do any of that.

At first I thought we could both compromise but we just can’t. He can’t create more time in his schedule and I can’t pretend I don’t want more time when I actually do.

And to be honest....even though the sex was great and we were totally into each other, we didn’t really have much in common besides that mutual into-each-other-ness. He’s into football, golf, fishing and beer. I’m into swing dancing, Hawaii, my muscle car and documentaries. I knew that eventually that lack of common interests would catch up to us and be a bummer on a relationship.

I can’t give up on what I’m really looking for. It wouldn’t work out or feel good. Even if breaking up feels bad for a minute, its not as bad as breaking up later because I want to have stimulating conversation and can’t get it from him.


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## notmyjamie

curious2 said:


> It’s nice that you are empathetic but why would want to help your current boyfriend through this day? It would mean to me he wasn’t ready to be a boyfriend. Just trying to wrap my head around how this ok for you. I would guess you are not looking for a real relationship? Just companionship?


Because I'm confident enough to know that even though he cares about me and is moving forward with his life he is still going to feel something about the day and that it's not a reflection on how he feels about me. It's bittersweet. 25 years is a big anniversary. He loved his ex for many years and feels that they had a very good marriage for a long time. From that marriage came his children and a family. I know that he misses having his family (kids really) right there. Now they live elsewhere. From that marriage came the 3 most important people in his life so he would never go back and change it but it's not something to celebrate anymore...ie. bittersweet. 

We spent the evening together and he talked a bit about how he wouldn't go back and not marry her but that he is so much happier now. We've only been together for 5 months so I don't expect a huge commitment from him yet, nor am I ready to give him one. But we talked about future plans for us, vacations, living together at some point, etc. Then we had dinner and watched a movie and never talked about the date again. I think I was worried for nothing.


----------



## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> I also want to be really into each other, have great conversation, companionship, etc.
> 
> The fact that I don’t want complications or commitment doesn’t mean that I don’t want to care deeply and have feelings for them also.
> 
> That’s why I don’t just look for a FWB. The sex has to be there and it has to be great, but that can’t be the only thing there or I will lose interest very quickly.
> 
> I have to feel mutual respect and fondness with them.
> 
> I call that a boyfriend because I don’t know what else to call it. It’s ok if we fall in love too, I’m not ruling that out. It’s just not my main goal.



Deep feelings usually go hand in hand with complications and commitment. There really isnt much between a FWB and a boyfriend. Sounds like you want the benefits of commitment without committing. Thats going to be tough if you want to keep the person long term.

I do applaud you for realizing the kids were a deal breaker. Silver fox needs someone willing to be involved. You deserve the freedom not to be.


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## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> Deep feelings usually go hand in hand with complications and commitment. There really isnt much between a FWB and a boyfriend. Sounds like you want the benefits of commitment without committing. Thats going to be tough if you want to keep the person long term.
> 
> I do applaud you for realizing the kids were a deal breaker. *Silver fox needs someone willing to be involved*. You deserve the freedom not to be.


To the bolded, actually no. He doesn't introduce anyone he is dating to his kids (nor should he, IMO).


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## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> Deep feelings usually go hand in hand with complications and commitment. There really isnt much between a FWB and a boyfriend. Sounds like you want the benefits of commitment without committing. *Thats going to be tough if you want to keep the person long term*.


And to the bolded on this one, long term is not my goal. If I meet someone who it ends up so amazing between us that we develop into an LTR, that's great. Otherwise, I'm fine with a few months to a year or so. I've had a couple like that already in my 4 years since divorce, and that length of time works well for me. No hard feelings, we just both weren't looking for LTR's to begin with so it is easy to step back out. Still friends with most of them. Once in awhile one of them may want to hook up but I don't do that so always say no thanks.


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## EmeryB

Faithful Wife, I can definitely relate to you! LOL! I also applaud you for knowing what you want and not accepting anything different. I will never marry again, and I make this known right up front to all the men I've gone out with. However, you wouldn't believe how many men hear this and think it's a CHALLENGE!! They're like, "Challenge accepted!" and then I'm like, "NO. No-no-no-no-NOOOOOO!" They all think they can change my mind, and then get upset when they realize it ain't gonna happen! :rofl: 

After everything I've been through (probably the same as many here have been through), I absolutely will not accept any bull****. I don't want a man with young kids because I've already raised mine, and I am definitely not interested AT ALL in helping to raise someone else's kids. At the same time, I basically don't have any family, so there is never any family drama coming from my side, and I don't want to deal with family drama from a man's side either. I also have a really good job, and sometimes it's hard to find men who also have a good job (comparable, at least). Geez, there are just soooooo many things I'm picky about! I am currently dating a much younger man, but he is basically "Mr. Right Now" even though we have been together for a while. He is way more into me than I am into him, and I actually need to cut him loose - - but that's a whole "'nother" story!

I want a committed relationship with someone, but I don't want to live with anyone, and I don't want to be around him 24/7 or even every day. I have good friends and we are always doing something, and I also love alone-time. Basically I want someone who adores me, but will also leave me the hell alone! Is that too much to ask?!!


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## Faithful Wife

EmeryB said:


> Faithful Wife, I can definitely relate to you! LOL! I also applaud you for knowing what you want and not accepting anything different. I will never marry again, and I make this known right up front to all the men I've gone out with. However, you wouldn't believe how many men hear this and think it's a CHALLENGE!! They're like, "Challenge accepted!" and then I'm like, "NO. No-no-no-no-NOOOOOO!" They all think they can change my mind, and then get upset when they realize it ain't gonna happen! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/rofl.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Rofl" ></a>
> 
> After everything I've been through (probably the same as many here have been through), I absolutely will not accept any bull****. I don't want a man with young kids because I've already raised mine, and I am definitely not interested AT ALL in helping to raise someone else's kids. At the same time, I basically don't have any family, so there is never any family drama coming from my side, and I don't want to deal with family drama from a man's side either. I also have a really good job, and sometimes it's hard to find men who also have a good job (comparable, at least). Geez, there are just soooooo many things I'm picky about! I am currently dating a much younger man, but he is basically "Mr. Right Now" even though we have been together for a while. He is way more into me than I am into him, and I actually need to cut him loose - - but that's a whole "'nother" story!
> 
> I want a committed relationship with someone, but I don't want to live with anyone, and I don't want to be around him 24/7 or even every day. I have good friends and we are always doing something, and I also love alone-time. Basically I want someone who adores me, but will also leave me the hell alone! Is that too much to ask?!!


Yes! You get it.

On bumble which is my main OLD site, the guys are pretty open about if they are looking for something serious or leads to marriage. So I just avoid them altogether. I understand their position and they should not compromise on what they want, either. Some people just really want that type of relationship so hopefully they match up with others who do too.

I haven’t had any trouble narrowing down the guys who want what I want also. There are lots of us. People who do want an exclusive connection but do not want a future commitment. We have our reasons. 

I’m not going this direction because I want to keep my options open for someone better to come along. When I have a boyfriend, I’m all about him and all my girlfriend energy is all his. I just don’t have any wife energy anymore. 

In my experience, a boyfriend is so much better than a husband anyway. I mean they are different things, but a boyfriend is all about the sweet stuff, none of the difficult stuff. I don’t bring my difficult stuff to them either. I have plenty of support in my life for the difficult things and don’t need a boyfriend to take any of that on.


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## 3Xnocharm

@EmeryB, I am relating to you pretty hard over here, lol... I didnt even realize I felt some of these things!


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## EmeryB

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes! You get it.
> 
> On bumble which is my main OLD site, the guys are pretty open about if they are looking for something serious or leads to marriage. So I just avoid them altogether. I understand their position and they should not compromise on what they want, either. Some people just really want that type of relationship so hopefully they match up with others who do too.
> 
> I haven’t had any trouble narrowing down the guys who want what I want also. There are lots of us. People who do want an exclusive connection but do not want a future commitment. We have our reasons.
> 
> I’m not going this direction because I want to keep my options open for someone better to come along. When I have a boyfriend, I’m all about him and all my girlfriend energy is all his. I just don’t have any wife energy anymore.
> 
> In my experience, a boyfriend is so much better than a husband anyway. I mean they are different things, but a boyfriend is all about the sweet stuff, none of the difficult stuff. I don’t bring my difficult stuff to them either. I have plenty of support in my life for the difficult things and don’t need a boyfriend to take any of that on.



Is it weird that I have never tried OLD??? LOL! However, Facebook is bad enough! Men seem to think it's an OLD site!

I can see where it would be so much easier to be able to put all your requirements out there and be able to read the requirements of others beforehand. Pretty sure no man would ever want to date me if I did that! Like you, I would have way too many requirements!


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## EmeryB

3Xnocharm said:


> @EmeryB, I am relating to you pretty hard over here, lol... I didnt even realize I felt some of these things!


Oh, I could go on and on and on about what I want and don't want in a relationship! I seriously doubt my "perfect man" exists! And that's OK with me if I never find him. I'm very happy with my life - - with or without a man in it.


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## wilson

EmeryB said:


> I seriously doubt my "perfect man" exists! And that's OK with me if I never find him. I'm very happy with my life - - with or without a man in it.


Challenge accepted!!!


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## Faithful Wife

EmeryB said:


> Is it weird that I have never tried OLD??? LOL! However, Facebook is bad enough! Men seem to think it's an OLD site!
> 
> I can see where it would be so much easier to be able to put all your requirements out there and be able to read the requirements of others beforehand. Pretty sure no man would ever want to date me if I did that! Like you, I would have way too many requirements!


Oh I don't list all of mine. The list above was just for fun for me to write them out. Ha ha!

My profile literally just says "I'm looking for a nice boyfriend". 

Then I weed through their profiles based on what is directly or indirectly implied about what they want.

When we match and then first chat, they always ask me what I mean by a boyfriend. I explain pretty much everything I said here. Most of them get it and are wanting the same, because by that point I've narrowed them down pretty well.

By the time we have begun chatting, they have already met my height requirements, age requirements, distance requirements (won't date someone I have to drive 30 minutes to see), and attraction requirements.

How do you even meet people in person these days? I don't even know where that would happen. But then again I don't really go anywhere other than maybe to a restaurant with a friend, the grocery store, gas station, work, convenience store, visit my mom (retirement community). That's about it. No one has ever approached me in a grocery store or any of the other mentioned places to get my number or anything. How does that even work? :laugh:


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## EmeryB

wilson said:


> Challenge accepted!!!




Wait, who dis??!! So, Wilson, are you named after the volleyball in that Tom Hanks movie? And are you single? Cuz I love me some volleyball! 

I mean, I wouldn't marry a volleyball . . . I'm just looking for a semi-serious relationship. . . 


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> I wish I could say certain things on my OLD profile but I dislike profiles that say too many things about what someone doesn’t want. So I never do this. But if I could be totally honest I would say...
> 
> Deal breakers:
> 
> Kids who are still dependent on you.
> 
> No earrings on white guys. Ok sometimes on others but still not my fave.
> 
> No dead fish pics.
> 
> If the house in the background of your pics looks disheveled.
> 
> If it looks like you cropped your ex out of your pictures.
> 
> If all of your pics are of you in athletic wear or camping.
> 
> If you are making a hang ten sign with your hand. Might make an exception if you are actually Hawaiian.
> 
> If you have pets, probably a deal breaker because I’m allergic to some and won’t sleep or have sex in a bed that pets have been on.
> 
> If you have no full body pictures.
> 
> Too many pics of cars and boats (not impressed).
> 
> Bad tattoos. Good ones are ok.
> 
> Guns in pics. I don’t actually care if you have them but if you think they are “cool” in a profile pic, no thanks.
> 
> If you don’t know what you are looking for or if you want “something casual”.
> 
> Must be a certain height. If your profile doesn’t specify I will assume you don’t meet my minimum requirements.
> 
> No musicians unless you are financially stable and it’s just your hobby (or if it’s a lucrative career).
> 
> If you are so ripped its obvious your entire life is about the gym.
> 
> .....
> 
> I’m so picky! I can’t say those things though. I just left swipe and move along.
> 
> And that doesn’t even include my requirements for political leanings, age range and no poly people, and generally doesn’t come across as a douche.
> 
> ETA: I forgot to add...
> 
> No weird jewelry.


I think that's a pretty good list. I generally adhere to the same. I'm not allergic to pets, but I'm not a fan of pets in the bed. I don't want to share a bed with an animal. I also don't like the limitations of a pet, but this is more specific to dogs. You can't be gone for more than a couple of hours before you have to go home to let the dog out, and that puts a damper on things... and essentially eliminates the possiblity of an impromptu weekend away or long day trip. Or the dog has to come with you.

The one thing I do specifically have on my profile is no guys who are poly or are in open relationships. I don't know why I bother, though, because it's pretty clear that most of the men who match/message me aren't reading it, judging by the number of poly guys and guys in open relationships who contact me.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## EmeryB

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh I don't list all of mine. The list above was just for fun for me to write them out. Ha ha!
> 
> 
> 
> My profile literally just says "I'm looking for a nice boyfriend".
> 
> 
> 
> Then I weed through their profiles based on what is directly or indirectly implied about what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> When we match and then first chat, they always ask me what I mean by a boyfriend. I explain pretty much everything I said here. Most of them get it and are wanting the same, because by that point I've narrowed them down pretty well.
> 
> 
> 
> By the time we have begun chatting, they have already met my height requirements, age requirements, distance requirements (won't date someone I have to drive 30 minutes to see), and attraction requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you even meet people in person these days? I don't even know where that would happen. But then again I don't really go anywhere other than maybe to a restaurant with a friend, the grocery store, gas station, work, convenience store, visit my mom (retirement community). That's about it. No one has ever approached me in a grocery store or any of the other mentioned places to get my number or anything. How does that even work? :laugh:




I'm from a rural area, and lots of people know me. Even more people know/knew my husband and know that he had an affair.... so meeting people probably isn't as hard as if I lived in a big city. Based on where I live now, there is no way in hell I would try OLD! I have actually looked at the available dudes on some of the free sites, and knew quite a few men on there. And, of course, their pics looked way better and their info sounded way better than they actually are! 

And also, is there a Walmart where you live? Men have discovered there are lots of women to meet there! LOL! 


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## Faithful Wife

EmeryB said:


> I'm from a rural area, and lots of people know me. Even more people know/knew my husband and know that he had an affair.... so meeting people probably isn't as hard as if I lived in a big city. Based on where I live now, there is no way in hell I would try OLD! I have actually looked at the available dudes on some of the free sites, and knew quite a few men on there. And, of course, their pics looked way better and their info sounded way better than they actually are!
> 
> And also, is there a Walmart where you live? Men have discovered there are lots of women to meet there! LOL!


Ah, I get it. Yes, I grew up in a small country town and for sure if I still lived there, dates would be easy. Just go to the local bar, someone you went to high school with will be there, chat them up, go on dates, and so on. Or go to a house party, one or more people you know and may be interested in will be there. In fact, I avoid going back to my home town at all because I don't want to run into any of them at this point. I see a few of them on Facebook and that's good enough for me.

Also I can see how OLD in a small rural area would not really present you any options that you didn't know about already.

Re: Walmart, are you referring to the horrible sites dedicated to "people of Walmart" and pictures of strange looking people who were seen there? Wasn't sure, but I think that's what you meant.

Yes there is a Walmart here but I don't actually go there for anything....strangely, it is in a part of town that isn't really that safe. I don't feel safe walking from the parking lot to the front door at all. And lots of times there are creepy people hanging out front, look like druggies.

I'm not sure why they hang out there, but it is just in the middle of a really weird area with lots of meth heads. :surprise:


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## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> To the bolded, actually no. He doesn't introduce anyone he is dating to his kids (nor should he, IMO).



Actually if he dates someone long term, they are going to have to know the children. I have children the same age. Wouldnt introduce them too soon but my partner would have to be in their lives as my kids are a huge part of my life.


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## bkyln309

My dealbreakers:

1. Drug use or 420 friendly partners
2. History of prolonged mental illness 
3. Jail or Prison time
4. Men with kids younger than mine. Prefer men without kids or grown kids
5. Men who are overweight as I am really into fitness. My ex was morbidly obese and I missed out on having a partner to do things with. Rarely a day goes by that I am not doing something active.
6. A man without a very good job and savings. 
7. Men with a large amount of debt (excludes mortgage)

OLD Dealbreakers:
no dead animals in your profile
No open relationships
No cowboy hats or boots or buckles
No shirtless pics/bathroom pics
no separated men


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## Faithful Wife

bkyln309 said:


> Actually if he dates someone long term, they are going to have to know the children. I have children the same age. Wouldnt introduce them too soon but my partner would have to be in their lives as my kids are a huge part of my life.


Ok you know him better than I do, I guess.


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## bkyln309

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok you know him better than I do, I guess.




No maybe you are right but I’m a parent and I would be shocked if he felt that way long term if he is an involved dad.


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## Faithful Wife

​


bkyln309 said:


> No maybe you are right but I’m a parent and I would be shocked if he felt that way long term if he is an involved dad.


What we discussed was:

A. neither of us is looking for LTR

B. he does not want to dilute his time with them by having anyone he is dating around while he has them

C. I agreed that kids need their parents and don't need to meet people dad is dating until or unless there is going to be a deeper commitment, which we already agreed neither of us were looking for


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## 2&out

Very interesting turn lately. I say very similar and as a man get attacked/slammed. Just another A-hole man who just wants sex and fun. Interesting that when it's the other sex it is some how OK/justified. I especially have to laugh at the lists - that they are "better than" and want/expect/deserve more. But very past hot/prime for the unicorn that might qualify.


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## Faithful Wife

2&out said:


> Very interesting turn lately. I say very similar and as a man get attacked/slammed. Just another A-hole man who just wants sex and fun. Interesting that when it's the other sex it is some how OK/justified. I especially have to laugh at the lists - that they are "better than" and want/expect/deserve more. But very past hot/prime for the unicorn that might qualify.


The lists do come across so weird I know. It even sounds weird to read my own list. And when guys have long lists of “don’ts” on their profiles I don’t like it then either.

Yet we do all have these lists don’t we?

I mean I can’t date a dude with huge ear gauges. I don’t think that makes me entitled it’s just a very specific preference.

Also... I want more than sex and I said that a few times. And aren’t you the one who bought your girlfriend a car because you’re totally into her? Which is a lot more than just sex. Right? Maybe I have you confused with someone else.


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## Faithful Wife

duplicate


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## FeministInPink

2&out said:


> Very interesting turn lately. I say very similar and as a man get attacked/slammed. Just another A-hole man who just wants sex and fun. Interesting that when it's the other sex it is some how OK/justified. I especially have to laugh at the lists - that they are "better than" and want/expect/deserve more. But very past hot/prime for the unicorn that might qualify.


Men's "lists" get slammed because they are usually superficial and tend to be insulting towards women, and tends to be diametrically opposed, like "I want a woman who is a size two, but with J Lo's ass and Christina Hendricks' boobs, but I also want her to eat real food and not salads." Women like that literally DO. NOT. EXIST. Or they think they deserve to date supermodel type women, and won't accept or even consider anything less than a 10.

The lists here posted by the women can be distilled down to very simply, "have your **** together and don't be an *******." That's all it takes. Be a stable person and don't be a jerk, and most women will give you a chance. 

Luckily for us, the men who make THOSE types of list generally fail at least one of these two criteria.

But these lists that TAM woman have posted here are also for screening for compatibility, and that's not superficial. Honestly, I have yet to see a man's list that isn't completely superficial. I'm not saying that all men are superficial, not by a long shot. It's just that the non-superficial men I've known either don't have lists, or haven't shared them.

ETA: the men's lists that get slammed also tend to objectify and dehumanize woman. That's what we object to. We don't object to a man having criteria in terms of who he will or won't be compatible with. We object to lists that treat us like cuts of meat instead of people.


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## Not

That’s pretty much what I would say in my profiles. The guy needs to have his **** together, not need to be the center of attention and not be materialistic. In other words, an average joe who’s comfortable and content being an average joe. 

I messaged one guy simply to ask him why his profile was so negative. It was so so negative. He replied saying he was tired of being turned down by chicks who were nothing special to look at. He was looking for a FWB situation. He had no pictures on his profile. I replied back that guys who’re looking for that kind of situation need to be pretty damn good looking in order to hook a better than average looking woman for FWB. So he sent me a picture. Not attractive, at all. Out of shape, older, double chin and sort of frumpy.

That was an eye opener for me. He obviously saw himself as someone who has what it takes to snag a hot woman, but why? How can someone be so out of touch? He was genuinely angry about the fact that he was having no success. And if he’s like that what are the seriously good looking guys going to be like? That’s a scary thought.


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## Faithful Wife

I sometimes see a guy with a long list and feel that the things on the list are totally reasonable. Like don’t be a drama queen, spend hours in the mirror just to go out for lunch, don’t still be dependent on your parents or ex, don’t be on social media constantly. And I can’t argue with any of those. But the fact that the list is so specific just makes me think they are talking about one or more specific women in their past. So it’s still kind of a turn off to read such a list because it makes me think he’s been burned by someone and is bitter about it.

That’s why I never put a list up because I’m sure it will just make me come across in the same way. Like I’m just listing everything I hate about my ex or something.

I do like when guys have positive lists, like good qualities they are looking for, especially if it’s cute and witty.


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## Laurentium

This is really interesting. I think we maybe lack a language to describe these different things.
(Or maybe it is out there and I just don't know it). 

To borrow some of your words, I would be looking for "serious", whatever that means, but not "marriage". Certainly "exclusive" and monogamous. Emotional. Love. (Maybe that's what "serious" means). But probably not living together, I am too settled in my ways. 

With an expectation that this goes on for ever, unless there is some good reason to stop. Which is the opposite I guess to when you say "not a future commitment" and "I’m not going this direction because I want to keep my options open for someone better to come along". My guess is, correct me if wrong, while you wait for "someone better", you still want to be dating. What am I going to do while I wait for the right person? In my case, not date, which may seem like a bad idea, but I don't want to be sleeping with someone who seems temporary. I can't do that. It's complicated isn't it. 

I would expect to be thought of, in public, as "a couple", get invited to things as a couple. I think "how it looks to the world" is one of the variables. 

*So there isn't, as far as I know, a good one word expression for all the above!! *It takes too much explaining.

I can't think of myself as a BOYfriend at my age. 

Mind you I know a guy who's doing well on OLD, and he's nearly 80. Maybe it gets easier again at that age, no competition. 



Faithful Wife said:


> On bumble which is my main OLD site, the guys are pretty open about if they are looking for something serious or leads to marriage. So I just avoid them altogether. I understand their position and they should not compromise on what they want, either. Some people just really want that type of relationship so hopefully they match up with others who do too.
> 
> I haven’t had any trouble narrowing down the guys who want what I want also. There are lots of us. People who do want an exclusive connection but do not want a future commitment. We have our reasons.
> 
> I’m not going this direction because I want to keep my options open for someone better to come along. When I have a boyfriend, I’m all about him and all my girlfriend energy is all his. I just don’t have any wife energy anymore.
> 
> In my experience, a boyfriend is so much better than a husband anyway. I mean they are different things, but a boyfriend is all about the sweet stuff, none of the difficult stuff. I don’t bring my difficult stuff to them either. I have plenty of support in my life for the difficult things and don’t need a boyfriend to take any of that on.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Laurentium said:


> This is really interesting. I think we maybe lack a language to describe these different things.
> (Or maybe it is out there and I just don't know it).
> 
> To borrow some of your words, I would be looking for "serious", whatever that means, but not "marriage". Certainly "exclusive" and monogamous. Emotional. Love. (Maybe that's what "serious" means). But probably not living together, I am too settled in my ways.
> 
> With an expectation that this goes on for ever, unless there is some good reason to stop. Which is the opposite I guess to when you say "not a future commitment" and "I’m not going this direction because I want to keep my options open for someone better to come along".
> 
> I would expect to be thought of, in public, as "a couple", get invited to things as a couple. I think "how it looks to the world" is one of the variables.
> 
> So there isn't, as far as I know, a good one word expression for all the above!! It takes too much explaining.
> 
> I can't think of myself as a BOYfriend at my age.
> 
> Mind you I know a guy who's doing well on OLD, and he's nearly 80. Maybe it gets easier again at that age, no competition.
> 
> 
> 
> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> On bumble which is my main OLD site, the guys are pretty open about if they are looking for something serious or leads to marriage. So I just avoid them altogether. I understand their position and they should not compromise on what they want, either. Some people just really want that type of relationship so hopefully they match up with others who do too.
> 
> I haven’t had any trouble narrowing down the guys who want what I want also. There are lots of us. People who do want an exclusive connection but do not want a future commitment. We have our reasons.
> 
> I’m not going this direction because I want to keep my options open for someone better to come along. When I have a boyfriend, I’m all about him and all my girlfriend energy is all his. I just don’t have any wife energy anymore.
> 
> In my experience, a boyfriend is so much better than a husband anyway. I mean they are different things, but a boyfriend is all about the sweet stuff, none of the difficult stuff. I don’t bring my difficult stuff to them either. I have plenty of support in my life for the difficult things and don’t need a boyfriend to take any of that on.
Click to expand...

Yeah boyfriend is not the right word, I just don’t have another one.

Some people say partner in crime. Which is cute I guess but doesn’t really work for me either.

Just “partner” is good, but could imply living together so I don’t use it.

To me, a boyfriend is someone you are seeing regularly and exclusively and you are very fond of (and maybe in love with). You feel sparkly about your boyfriend. He is good to you but doesn’t financially support you. He’s there for you but isn’t your only source of emotional support. He dates you and is proud to be with you. He looks forward to seeing you because you don’t live together and the time you are not together helps keep that desire to see each other alive. He brings his best positive energy and any negative energy gets left behind to be dealt with on our own. We get to be the bright spot in each other’s lives.

I guess you could call that “seeing each other” or “someone I’m dating”. It’s just that for me I am more invested in a boyfriend than someone I would say I’m just seeing or dating. That’s what I call someone before we get exclusive.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> I sometimes see a guy with a long list and feel that the things on the list are totally reasonable. Like don’t be a drama queen, spend hours in the mirror just to go out for lunch, don’t still be dependent on your parents or ex, don’t be on social media constantly. And I can’t argue with any of those. But the fact that the list is so specific just makes me think they are talking about one or more specific women in their past. So it’s still kind of a turn off to read such a list because it makes me think he’s been burned by someone and is bitter about it.
> 
> That’s why I never put a list up because I’m sure it will just make me come across in the same way. Like I’m just listing everything I hate about my ex or something.


Who wants to read a long list about what someone DOESN'T want? That is so off-putting. Stating one or two specific things is fine (no smokers... no drugs...) but a long list of things like you stated here is so negative. For one thing I would feel like I was applying for a job, instead of trying to get to know someone for a relationship. For another, this smacks of a high maintenance personality or of a LOT of emotional baggage. It does not reflect well on the person posting them.


----------



## Faithful Wife

3Xnocharm said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I sometimes see a guy with a long list and feel that the things on the list are totally reasonable. Like don’t be a drama queen, spend hours in the mirror just to go out for lunch, don’t still be dependent on your parents or ex, don’t be on social media constantly. And I can’t argue with any of those. But the fact that the list is so specific just makes me think they are talking about one or more specific women in their past. So it’s still kind of a turn off to read such a list because it makes me think he’s been burned by someone and is bitter about it.
> 
> That’s why I never put a list up because I’m sure it will just make me come across in the same way. Like I’m just listing everything I hate about my ex or something.
> 
> 
> 
> Who wants to read a long list about what someone DOESN'T want? That is so off-putting. Stating one or two specific things is fine (no smokers... no drugs...) but a long list of things like you stated here is so negative. For one thing I would feel like I was applying for a job, instead of trying to get to know someone for a relationship. For another, this smacks of a high maintenance personality or of a LOT of emotional baggage. It does not reflect well on the person posting them.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is why I don’t write them and don’t like profiles that have them. Was just sharing mine here, because this is a friendly place where we can have a laugh, even at ourselves.

Lots of men seem to have these lists on their profiles. I don’t know if women do or not. My list here was just things I think in my head while I’m scrolling through pictures on profiles. Whether we like it or not, women are primarily only looked at for their physical attributes. It’s all about that for the most part. All their lists about not being drama queens or whatever are only relevant if you already meet their physical standards, which statistics have shown over and over that men only reach out to the women they deem to be 8 - 10’s. So yes it sometime feels like a job interview, where you are interviewing to be their personal stripper or something, but you also must have a heart of gold, lots of money, and no baggage (regardless of whether they have baggage or not).


----------



## Lila

I didn't "list" any dealbreakers on my profile but I did state who I was and ended it with "looking for similar". For example, "I have shared custody of a junior high School aged son and I'm looking for someone with similar, or older aged kids". 

About the only deal breaker I specifically called out was "only interested in men with no more than one divorce under their belts". And I only had to specify that because I seemed to attract the 50+ year olds who ended long term marriages only to hook up and marry their 28 year old, party-girl, rebound. IME, those guys were NEVER a good match for me.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, that is why I don’t write them and don’t like profiles that have them. Was just sharing mine here, because this is a friendly place where we can have a laugh, even at ourselves.


Right, the list in my head is pretty lengthy now, I wouldnt put it out there on OLD for sure! :grin2: Honestly we all NEED to have some criteria and expectations. I do like seeing others' here to compare to my own!


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I didn't "list" any dealbreakers on my profile but I did state who I was and ended it with "looking for similar". For example, "I have shared custody of a junior high School aged son and I'm looking for someone with similar, or older aged kids".
> 
> About the only deal breaker I specifically called out was "only interested in men with no more than one divorce under their belts". And I only had to specify that because I seemed to attract the 50+ year olds who ended long term marriages only to hook up and marry their 28 year old, party-girl, rebound. IME, those guys were NEVER a good match for me.


I saw a guys profile the other day that said he was looking for marriage and was only interested in women whose parents were still together because that was sort of a marker for someone who knew what a good long term marriage is. It made sense but, wow! I was thinking what if her parents are still together but they hate each other and are just praying for the end of time.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I saw a guys profile the other day that said he was looking for marriage and was only interested in women whose parents were still together because that was sort of a marker for someone who knew what a good long term marriage is. It made sense but, wow! I was thinking what if her parents are still together but they hate each other and are just praying for the end of time.


He could have just stated "only interested in women whose parents are happily married" or something similar. No need to get into the whys.


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## Lila

Relative to the conversation about "deal breaker lists"..... do you have a "type" of person that you date? And by "type" I mean in general. 

This question was prompted by an interaction I had this week with someone I met online and went on one date with a while back. This guy let me know his 2nd marriage ended because of his ex wife's drinking. He and his ex wife were "lake people" and enjoyed partying (a.k.a drinking) with friends at the lake. It was a mutual "the chemistry is not there". I ran into him on Wednesday night at an event. His new girlfriend was lots of fun but drunk by the time I arrived 45 minutes late.


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Relative to the conversation about "deal breaker lists"..... do you have a "type" of person that you date? And by "type" I mean in general.
> 
> This question was prompted by an interaction I had this week with someone I met online and went on one date with a while back. This guy let me know his 2nd marriage ended because of his ex wife's drinking. He and his ex wife were "lake people" and enjoyed partying (a.k.a drinking) with friends at the lake. It was a mutual "the chemistry is not there". I ran into him on Wednesday night at an event. His new girlfriend was lots of fun but drunk by the time I arrived 45 minutes late.


Excellent observation! He attracted another alcoholic. I do believe this happens over and over until we ourselves make some kind of inner change and then are able to attract a different type.

I don’t think we always know we are “going for” that same type when we are still doing it. Like your guy, he thinks that dating another drinker is coincidental. But in reality he will keep attracting the same type until he deals with whatever is in him that is attracting that. It may be his own drinking/partying that is attracting it. And maybe that is who he should keep matching with. Maybe this girlfriend can party without making it go bad. 

For me, I keep attracting men who are in some way not totally available. Which per all the self help books and authors and psychologists I’ve read, means that I’m actually the one who is not totally available.

It’s possible that until I become available myself I won’t be able to find someone else who is.

I continue working on this.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Excellent observation! He attracted another alcoholic. I do believe this happens over and over until we ourselves make some kind of inner change and then are able to attract a different type.
> 
> I don’t think we always know we are “going for” that same type when we are still doing it. Like your guy, he thinks that dating another drinker is coincidental. But in reality he will keep attracting the same type until he deals with whatever is in him that is attracting that. It may be his own drinking/partying that is attracting it. And maybe that is who he should keep matching with. Maybe this girlfriend can party without making it go bad.
> 
> For me, I keep attracting men who are in some way not totally available. Which per all the self help books and authors and psychologists I’ve read, means that I’m actually the one who is not totally available.
> 
> It’s possible that until I become available myself I won’t be able to find someone else who is.
> 
> I continue working on this.


I think you're on to something but I think it's less what we attract and more what we chase. 

He attracted me and I'm no alcoholic party girl but all of his talk of how much he enjoys partying made me know immediately that we'd never be a match. He "likes" the party girl alcoholic type because she's fun but doesn't like the negatives that comes with keeping one. 

Do you think you "like" men who are in some way not totally available because it gives you plenty of time to be alone when you want to?


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## minimalME

This is definitely true for me. It doesn't take much to feel suffocated.



Lila said:


> Do you think you "like" men who are in some way not totally available because it gives you plenty of time to be alone when you want to?


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I think you're on to something but I think it's less what we attract and more what we chase.
> 
> He attracted me and I'm no alcoholic party girl but all of his talk of how much he enjoys partying made me know immediately that we'd never be a match. He "likes" the party girl alcoholic type because she's fun but doesn't like the negatives that comes with keeping one.
> 
> Do you think you "like" men who are in some way not totally available because it gives you plenty of time to be alone when you want to?


But he only attracted you to a date and not further. That’s why there wasn’t a match - you aren’t attracting party people but he is, so it didn’t stick. It’s not always obvious at first. But when there’s a date but not a match, it’s usually because of some underlying thing that is missing but we don’t always see it at first.

And similarly sometimes there is a match for one of these subconscious reasons and that’s not always obvious either. Mr Silver Fox seemed like a match for certain reasons (like great sex, my main need) but then later it turned out that he, again, was another somewhat unavailable guy. Part of why I broke it off is because I’m trying to stop going down that road.

I think I attract them because it’s still something I’m working on myself. It isn’t really that I need more alone time, it’s that I’m still just barely recovered from my divorce. But in facing the fact that I’m only barely recovered I’m also working towards more recovery. Hopefully the next guy I meet I can make a few more baby steps with in the right direction.


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## Laurentium

Faithful Wife said:


> I think I attract them because it’s still something I’m working on myself. It isn’t really that I need more alone time, it’s that I’m still just barely recovered from my divorce. But in facing the fact that I’m only barely recovered I’m also working towards more recovery. Hopefully the next guy I meet I can make a few more baby steps with in the right direction.


Do you think dating helps with that recovery?


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## Faithful Wife

Laurentium said:


> Do you think dating helps with that recovery?


Yes. The more good experiences I have, which includes having good breakups, the more I move along in it. Good breakups, meaning being adults who can just accept it is for the best and let go lovingly without regret or drama. In my past breakups were always messy and stupid, so it has been a goal of mine to do that whole bit much better. And the more good experiences I have like really getting into someone without it making me feel unbalanced helps a lot too. Silver Fox was actually a great experience in both ways. It tells me I’m getting closer to my goal.

There are times I pull myself off the market and just relax, too. Those times also help because I can reflect and keep working on me.


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## FeministInPink

@Faithful Wife I swear you were channeling me when you wrote your last several posts. I've come to realize that I attract/ am attracted to emotionally unavailable men because I'm probably the unavailable one. Like you, I'm trying to work through it and get better. 

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## As'laDain

Faithful Wife said:


> I saw a guys profile the other day that said he was looking for marriage and was only interested in women whose parents were still together because that was sort of a marker for someone who knew what a good long term marriage is. It made sense but, wow! I was thinking what if her parents are still together but they hate each other and are* just praying for the end of time.*








I had to do it!


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## Faithful Wife

So I was talking to a good friend on the phone about this earlier tonight.

I have a date tonight. And for me it is pretty easy to screen for certain things, like political leanings. People have been honest with me and if we aren’t a match that way, we just come forward and say it. Not too much problem there. 

But how to screen for subtler things, like....I can’t date someone who is a racist, who is sexist, or is a homophobe.

You can’t ask people this, because no one who actually is any of these things will just come out and say it. Many times people who hold attitudes of these things don’t even realize themselves that others would consider them a racist, sexist, or homophobe.

Kind of like how men are “all for” women who have sex with each other, but men who have sex with each other or trans persons are the butt of their jokes and worse. These people consider themselves open and accepting but are actually homophobes in my book. They don’t even realize that women who have sex with each other don’t actually want a man around, or a man fantasizing about them. Many men seem to think that any woman on woman action is actually for their benefit. (Insert gag emoji).

This is something it takes time to discover. You have to know someone in several settings and know what kinds of things they say and think before you realize they are racist, sexist or homophobe.

So I’m slowly working through certain issues like this, and having to be very aware and listen very carefully to what people are really saying. Also I have to pay attention to what they are really saying, under the words. The attitudes and actual belief system is very important that me.

Even in a relationship that is mostly about sex, I can’t get down with a racist, sexist or homophobe. That type of person turns me off viscerally. And I need to know. It’s not negotiable.


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## FeministInPink

@Faithful Wife I know what you mean. Those traits can be difficult to suss out, unless you're in a specific situation that allows or forces him to show that side... so you have to look for subtle clues sometimes.

My XH was racist, but I didn't really see it until after we were married. (Granted, he was putting on an act for the entire 5 yrs we were together before getting married, but still!) This was about ten years ago. There was this radio shock jock who created all this controversy when he referred to a [black] female basketball team as "nappy hoes" or something like that, subsequently was fired, and then sued on the basis of free speech. Do you guys remember that? [Tangent: I recently read a really interesting article about the origination of the term "you guys" as second person plural, I recommend it.] Anyway, my XH made some comment that just about made my brain fall out of my head, and we argued about it, and all I could think was, WHO ARE YOU? He had always said that he didn't want to be like his dad, and one of the things he disliked the most about his father was that his father was a horrible racist. I'll never know if that was an intentional lie, or if he was just fooling himself, but when I think back over our relationship, there were clues and hints that he was racist, but they were easy to miss.


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## Cynthia

People of good intentions are usually looking for someone who shares their values. If you are concerned about what someone's values are, why not ask? Of course you're not going to ask someone if they are a racist or whatever, but you can bring up subjects where they can express their views on these matters and you can gain understanding. There are plenty of ways to bring these subjects up to determine whether or not you are compatible.


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## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> @Faithful Wife I swear you were channeling me when you wrote your last several posts. I've come to realize that I attract/ am attracted to emotionally unavailable men because I'm probably the unavailable one. Like you, I'm trying to work through it and get better.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I did this most of my life. I went after broken women because honestly dealing with their **** was easier than dealing with my own. I’m 45 this week and for the first time in what I would define as an adult Healthy relationship


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## minimalME

That's wonderful, and I'm very happy for you! 



Wolf1974 said:


> I’m 45 this week and for the first time in what I would define as an adult Healthy relationship


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## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> I did this most of my life. I went after broken women because honestly dealing with their **** was easier than dealing with my own. I’m 45 this week and for the first time in what I would define as an adult Healthy relationship


I would give this a "love" if the platform allowed.

This is part of the reason I'm not actively dating right now--not seeking it out, at least. I'm focusing on myself and my own ****, because I want the next one to be healthy. With someone who is emotionally available. 

There is a Person of Interest (POI) at the moment, on the periphery. But he recently went through a bad breakup, so he's not ready. (POI is the guy I mentioned in post #1315.) Since I posted that, he responded to my message... he apologized for not responding, because he didn't see my message earlier. He thanked me for understanding the "place" that he is in right now, and that he thinks he might be ready in a few weeks, and if so, he would like to go out with me. 

I think, if anything were to happen with POI, we would need to take it slow, and that would probably be a good thing for both of us. 

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## In Absentia

Looks like I'm not single anymore, but I'm still single... :frown2:


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## FeministInPink

In Absentia said:


> Looks like I'm not single anymore, but I'm still single... :frown2:


Are you in a Schrodinger's relationship?

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## In Absentia

FeministInPink said:


> Are you in a Schrodinger's relationship?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


ah ah... no, my wife had a massive mental breakdown and I had to "cancel" the separation... so, I'm still married, but not really married because it's a roommate relationship, the reason why we separated. It really sucks (no pun intended)... :frown2:


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## Faithful Wife

Well my date Thursday night was a weird disaster.

The date went absolutely great! We had lots of chemistry, good conversation, and shared a few great kisses. We talked about the need for exclusivity before sex, and that we were both willing to take down our profiles and declare exclusivity so we could move towards that. We had been texting and talking on the phone all week so we had already established some good ground that way.

He asked me to come home with him that night and I declined but said hey, I’m free this weekend and we could probably work it out and have a great time. 

He walked me to my car, we kissed some more, and we said we would see each other soon, possibly even Friday night.

I got home and texted him that it was great to meet him and was glad he was how he presented himself in pictures and in communication.

He texted me back and said that I’m “wonderful” but after thinking about it, he doesn’t think we are a match because he “doesn’t like games”. 

Um...what??

He said that I shouldn’t talk about sex if I wasn’t going to have sex.

I guess since I didn’t sleep with him on the first date I was “playing games”???

I just said wow, I don’t even know what to say but ok.

He texted a bit more and I didn’t reply. Then he texted the next night and said I’m sorry I didn’t mean to be a **** I just don’t like games.

Phew! Bullet dodged! Holy crap I am so glad he actually WAS a **** to me with those texts so I knew not to see him again. Next!!!

Have a date with a new guy tonight. I don’t know much about him yet so don’t have any high hopes or anything, just will be a nice meet up and get to know him. No expectations.

Meanwhile my boyfriend who had the family tragedy that broke us up contacted me because he had been thinking of me. We both left things at each other’s place when we were dating so we are going to meet up tomorrow and swap the stuff. It will be nice to see him but there’s no boyfriend feelings for him anymore, it will just be friendly. He was a good guy so it will be nice to see him again. I would totally be friends with him, if I had more time for friends. It’s nice at least when you can have a amicable break up and be able to have only good feelings for someone.


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## FeministInPink

@Faithful Wife You absolutely dodged a bullet with this guy.

I mean, SERIOUSLY??? He decides to be a jackass to you because you didn't sleep with him on the FIRST DATE.

He is the personification of rape culture, thinking that he deserves sex simply because you talked about it. In an abstract sense. What a douche canoe.

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## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Well my date Thursday night was a weird disaster.
> 
> The date went absolutely great! We had lots of chemistry, good conversation, and shared a few great kisses. We talked about the need for exclusivity before sex, and that we were both willing to take down our profiles and declare exclusivity so we could move towards that. We had been texting and talking on the phone all week so we had already established some good ground that way.
> 
> He asked me to come home with him that night and I declined but said hey, I’m free this weekend and we could probably work it out and have a great time.
> 
> He walked me to my car, we kissed some more, and we said we would see each other soon, possibly even Friday night.
> 
> I got home and texted him that it was great to meet him and was glad he was how he presented himself in pictures and in communication.
> 
> He texted me back and said that I’m “wonderful” but after thinking about it, he doesn’t think we are a match because he “doesn’t like games”.
> 
> Um...what??
> 
> He said that I shouldn’t talk about sex if I wasn’t going to have sex.
> 
> I guess since I didn’t sleep with him on the first date I was “playing games”???
> 
> I just said wow, I don’t even know what to say but ok.
> 
> He texted a bit more and I didn’t reply. Then he texted the next night and said I’m sorry I didn’t mean to be a **** I just don’t like games.
> 
> Phew! Bullet dodged! Holy crap I am so glad he actually WAS a **** to me with those texts so I knew not to see him again. Next!!!


He sounds like a horrible human being. Bye Felicia! Honestly with the way he approached you...I find it highly unlikely he gets laid much or has much luck in dating. That type of entitled attitude pretty much guarantees it won't happen. I am sure he will probably update his profile now to say "no games" LoL. I often wonder if the people that say "no games" or "no drama" in their profile....are actually the problem themselves :scratchhead:? They probably are!


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## ConanHub

ReformedHubby said:


> He sounds like a horrible human being. Bye Felicia! Honestly with the way he approached you...I find it highly unlikely he gets laid much or has much luck in dating. That type of entitled attitude pretty much guarantees it won't happen. I am sure he will probably update his profile now to say "no games" LoL. I often wonder if the people that say "no games" or "no drama" in their profile....are actually the problem themselves :scratchhead:? They probably are!


How are you doing RH?

I'm wondering if it was a communication gap. Maybe in his experience, women who talk about sex are indicating they want it?

Regardless, he blew a good lead up with his poor behavior.

If I'm ever single again, I'm thinking about just staying that way. It seems really rough out there.


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## Elizabeth001

ReformedHubby said:


> He sounds like a horrible human being. Bye Felicia! Honestly with the way he approached you...I find it highly unlikely he gets laid much or has much luck in dating. That type of entitled attitude pretty much guarantees it won't happen. I am sure he will probably update his profile now to say "no games" LoL. I often wonder if the people that say "no games" or "no drama" in their profile....are actually the problem themselves :scratchhead:? They probably are!




BINGO!


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## In Absentia

Elizabeth001 said:


> BINGO!



The game? :laugh:


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## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> How are you doing RH?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if it was a communication gap. Maybe in his experience, women who talk about sex are indicating they want it?
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless, he blew a good lead up with his poor behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> If I'm ever single again, I'm thinking about just staying that way. It seems really rough out there.


I always said that if Real Estate and I broke up, I was going to stay single and not date again. And since he and I broke up, that's kind of been true. Not because I'm pining over him, but because I like being single and not having another person to consider.

That being said, I'm not totally against dating, and if I meet someone with whom I have a spark, I'll go for it. But I'm not actively engaging in dating apps, or actively looking for someone right now.

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## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> He sounds like a horrible human being. Bye Felicia! Honestly with the way he approached you...I find it highly unlikely he gets laid much or has much luck in dating. That type of entitled attitude pretty much guarantees it won't happen. I am sure he will probably update his profile now to say "no games" LoL. I often wonder if the people that say "no games" or "no drama" in their profile....are actually the problem themselves :scratchhead:? They probably are!


I don’t know what to make of any of it but I’m not going to try to figure this weirdo out. 

It’s hard though because a lot of guys actually do expect sex on the first date but don’t say it upfront. There’s even a famous TAM poster (not you, lol) who claimed that every woman he met was rushing him into bed immediately and that he would laugh at any woman who didn’t and he wasn’t interested in them. So when you hear stories like that as a woman, you realize there really are a lot of men who feel entitled to sex on a first date. And they seem to think a woman is defective if she doesn’t beg him to **** her immediately. Then other men even try to **** you on a first date and if you say yes, they consider you a **** and don’t call again (a different poster here has claimed that several times).

Meanwhile, I’m just trying to find a decent man, get exclusive, and then I will then screw his brains out regularly, but I don’t have expectations. He doesn’t have to pass weird tests or act a certain way to make my ego swell up first. He just has to be sexy and a decent human being. I don’t expect him to jump through hoops first, buy me things, or promise me the moon. That’s what I consider the equivalent of what these men are doing.

My self esteem is pretty high. I’m guessing that regardless of bragging about banging every woman they can, men who try to do this are actually just trying to patch and paste up their self esteem. It’s not even the sex they are after, it’s that they tell themselves that they must be so worthy and awesome since all these women will have sex with them on a first date. Somehow they think this means they are special. 

I know I’m special and awesome without that being dependent on how men relate to me. I go on my fair share of dates, but even if I go on one per week, that’s really only a few hours out of the entire week. All of the other hours in the week, I’m happy with who I am and I am not looking for other validation all the time.

Also, all of the women I know who are DTF on a first date don’t have great self esteem and so when they do it, I think they and the guy both are just using the situation to make themselves feel special. They aren’t actually connecting, they are trying to feel better about themselves.

I don’t use sex for anything except to have a great mutual experience. It doesn’t make my self esteem go up. It just means I love sex and am good at it. I don’t really understand the mindset of doing it for self esteem but it’s obvious many people do.

Anyway....onward and upward!


----------



## Cynthia

ReformedHubby said:


> He sounds like a horrible human being. Bye Felicia! Honestly with the way he approached you...I find it highly unlikely he gets laid much or has much luck in dating. That type of entitled attitude pretty much guarantees it won't happen. I am sure he will probably update his profile now to say "no games" LoL. I often wonder if the people that say "no games" or "no drama" in their profile....are actually the problem themselves :scratchhead:? They probably are!


I would consider "no games " or " no drama" to be red flags on a dating profile. It obviously shows that games and drama have been a problem and usually that person isn't taking responsibility. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Cynthia said:


> I would consider "no games " or " no drama" to be red flags on a dating profile. It obviously shows that games and drama have been a problem and usually that person isn't taking responsibility.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Yes! In my experience, the men who say they want "no drama" are usually responsible for the drama, and incur it because of their crappy behavior. "No drama" is usually code for "no consequences for or being called out on my crappy behavior; I'm going to act like a douche and I'm looking for a woman who will put up with it."

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist

Cynthia said:


> I would consider "no games " or " no drama" to be red flags on a dating profile. It obviously shows that games and drama have been a problem and usually that person isn't taking responsibility.


When I hear "No Drama", I hear mixed things.

Ego (never my fault) -a "my way" kind of person

Effort (little) -on the low effort side to put the work into settling differences and conflict in a relationship because conflict will come in all aspects of life and love.

Openness (picker) my vetting has been poor in the past and I haven't figured it out yet.

Pretty hard to work on a relationship when the work on self is not balanced...


----------



## Not

Cynthia said:


> I would consider "no games " or " no drama" to be red flags on a dating profile. It obviously shows that games and drama have been a problem and usually that person isn't taking responsibility.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I so agree. A few weeks after I broke it off with the guy I was seeing over the summer he told me I had acted crazy when what he was calling crazy was me getting upset and reacting to all of his crazy lol! Funny how that works. I know to this day he would claim his life is and has been totally drama free.


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## Elizabeth001

IMHO...drama attracts drama. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

Elizabeth001 said:


> IMHO...drama attracts drama.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is frequently true. 

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## Elizabeth001

Cynthia said:


> This is frequently true.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk




Yep...if you’re complaining about it, you’re probably gravitating towards it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReformedHubby

ConanHub said:


> How are you doing RH?


Doing great...although I did almost die about six weeks ago. All from a small cut in my foot that became very badly infected when I returned from vacation. I was septic. But, I am good now, and in a weird way getting sick kind of showed me how much my current girlfriend really cares about me. Not that I doubted it, but she was really there for me during that time. Of course staying by my bedside led to her meeting my mother...yeah that was interesting LoL, but I was probably going to introduce her sometime soon anyway. Just glad my mother didn't chase her away. I was worried about that!


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> There’s even a famous TAM poster (not you, lol) who claimed that every woman he met was rushing him into bed immediately and that he would laugh at any woman who didn’t and he wasn’t interested in them. So when you hear stories like that as a woman, you realize there really are a lot of men who feel entitled to sex on a first date. And they seem to think a woman is defective if she doesn’t beg him to **** her immediately. Then other men even try to **** you on a first date and if you say yes, they consider you a **** and don’t call again (a different poster here has claimed that several times).


Who is this poster? Was it Machiavelli?....Just curious. I can't say that I have ever "expected" sex from anyone. I can say that first date sex in most cases didn't lead to anything positive in my life LoL. But there are exceptions. Sometimes you actually talk a lot with someone before the first date, so it doesn't really feel like a first date if that makes sense. In any case....good riddens to your "friend", and I have zero doubt that you will find what you're looking for.


----------



## ConanHub

ReformedHubby said:


> Doing great...although I did almost die about six weeks ago. All from a small cut in my foot that became very badly infected when I returned from vacation. I was septic. But, I am good now, and in a weird way getting sick kind of showed me how much my current girlfriend really cares about me. Not that I doubted it, but she was really there for me during that time. Of course staying by my bedside led to her meeting my mother...yeah that was interesting LoL, but I was probably going to introduce her sometime soon anyway. Just glad my mother didn't chase her away. I was worried about that!


WOW! Good to hear you're ok! I'm glad your girlfriend was really there for you.

Why does your mom scare off girlfriends? :smile2:


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## ReformedHubby

ConanHub said:


> Why does your mom scare off girlfriends? :smile2:


Well its complicated....I'll stop short of saying my mother is a racist, but...she is definitely prejudiced. To me there is a distinction between what those two words mean, its not like my mom hates ALL white people just because they are white, but she does have some views and preconceived notions that she probably will never shake at this point in her life. Meaning if one of her kids is dating outside of their race I've noticed that she seems to hold that person to a higher standard. Its so weird, its like they need to be really attractive AND very accomplished in order for her to like them. She used to tell me in high school, "If she can't use my comb, don't bring her home!". In short thats southern for leave the white girls alone.

However that was long ago. These days my mom actually has a lot of white friends, so people do evolve, but I think she has changed about as much as she can at this point. What am I going to do? I mean she is my mother....also...its not like she is going to be mean to whomever I am dating....she will be nice, and eventually they will become family like my brother's wife...but at first be prepared to hear all her stereotypes in private...it is what it is. I did place a pic of myself and my SO in my photo album on here, hard to believe that just days after that pic I was on my deathbed LoL. I wish I could say I gained some profound knowledge from that experience....but nope...I did not.


----------



## ConanHub

@ReformedHubby

I get it. Mrs. C might have had a darker tinge if a couple of ladies could have stood up to their families and friends to openly date a white boy.


----------



## FeministInPink

@ReformedHubby add me to your friends list--I want to see a pic of your lady! 

And, uh, why are we not already friends on TAM???


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## FeministInPink

FeministInPink said:


> @ReformedHubby add me to your friends list--I want to see a pic of your lady!
> 
> And, uh, why are we not already friends on TAM???


PS @ReformedHubby I'm glad you're ok and you didn't die.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> @ReformedHubby add me to your friends list--I want to see a pic of your lady!
> 
> And, uh, why are we not already friends on TAM???


Ditto!!


----------



## ReformedHubby

FeministInPink said:


> PS @ReformedHubby I'm glad you're ok and you didn't die.


LoL, Thanks. I am really glad I didn't die too!


----------



## notmyjamie

ReformedHubby said:


> In short thats southern for leave the white girls alone.


Oh boy can I relate. The guy I almost married years ago is not white. His parents are each Asian, just a different type. As I was getting it from my mother that I should be careful not to date/marry a black guy (again, he's not black!) his mother was calling me the "white *****" something she still calls me to this day, some 30 years later.

Glad you're better. Sepsis is no joke. I had it myself a few weeks ago...doesn't sound as bad as yours but it was bad enough. A week in the hospital is no fun.

ETA: I found it immensely frustrating that my mother kept focusing on his race and couldn't even get it right. How important can it be if you can't even get it right after being told multiple times he's Asian, not African American? She should have been worrying about how abusive he was not the color of his skin.


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## ReformedHubby

notmyjamie said:


> Oh boy can I relate. The guy I almost married years ago is not white. His parents are each Asian, just a different type. As I was getting it from my mother that I should be careful not to date/marry a black guy (again, he's not black!) his mother was calling me the "white *****" something she still calls me to this day, some 30 years later.
> 
> ETA: I found it immensely frustrating that my mother kept focusing on his race and couldn't even get it right. How important can it be if you can't even get it right after being told multiple times he's Asian, not African American? She should have been worrying about how abusive he was not the color of his skin.


Not to jack the intent of this thread, but it is fascinating that people will take the behavior of one person and apply it to a group. My girlfriends mother does generally like me, but she has it in her head that black men always cheat, and warned her that if she was going to be with me at some point it would happen. Based on my history, I can't take issue with what she said...but...her mother didn't know my history and was basing it off of generalizations.


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## FeministInPink

Hive mind, I need your input. I've been chatting with this guy on Facebook Dating for a couple of days. See the following most recent exchange:



> HIM: What do you like to do outside of work?
> ME: I love to read. I like to write, but I've taken a hiatus from that as of late. I love music... I like going to karaoke. I like traveling, but I haven't done enough of that lately, something I hope to remedy soon. What about you?
> HIM: Aside from karaoke, did you just recite the top three from the basic girl girl manual? [LOL crying emoji]
> HIM: Where do you go to karaoke?


So my question is, is this guy negging me? If so, how do I respond?

You guys know me, I'm pretty far from being basic. My skills/abilities in these hobbies borders on professional.

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## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> Hive mind, I need your input. I've been chatting with this guy on Facebook Dating for a couple of days. See the following most recent exchange:
> 
> 
> 
> So my question is, is this guy negging me? If so, how do I respond?
> 
> You guys know me, I'm pretty far from being basic. My skills/abilities in these hobbies borders on professional.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Might just be a sharp sense of humor. Without knowing him, it is hard to tell.

How long have you known him?


----------



## Elizabeth001

I dunno Fip...maybe a little more convo to see where he’s coming from? Perhaps he was trying to be funny but I don’t understand the punchline if he was. That doesn’t sound like the usual response to me and you were being honest (but we know you better). 

Speaking of Facebook dating...I had a couple glasses of wine one night and quickly (but not very seriously) filled out a profile too. After a couple of days, this fella pops up who I had 3 mutual friends with. Huh? Who is this? His place of employment was the same as my 2 sons and DIL. Sweet guy & not bad looking for our age group. I sent his pic to son #1 and asked if he knew him and what he thought. Got rave reviews so I reached out. I “liked” him and the next day he “liked” me back. Long story short, we’ve been talking and seeing each other pretty much non-stop since then and things are going great!! Who woulda thunk? lol 

Funny thing is that I worked there for about 10 months a year or so ago and our paths never crossed. I wasn’t really ready for it then though. I had some more processing to do, ya know?

The Facebook dating thing still seems superficial to me because it’s mostly photos like the others but the shared friends thing changed everything in this instance. 

Anyway...I think I’m FINALLY on to something here. Wish me luck!!


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## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> Might just be a sharp sense of humor. Without knowing him, it is hard to tell.
> 
> 
> 
> How long have you known him?


Exactly, hard to tell... especially when we haven't met or spoken in person.

We've only been chatting on the app for a few days, intermittently.

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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> I dunno Fip...maybe a little more convo to see where he’s coming from? Perhaps he was trying to be funny but I don’t understand the punchline if he was. That doesn’t sound like the usual response to me and you were being honest (but we know you better).
> 
> Speaking of Facebook dating...I had a couple glasses of wine one night and quickly (but not very seriously) filled out a profile too. After a couple of days, this fella pops up who I had 3 mutual friends with. Huh? Who is this? His place of employment was the same as my 2 sons and DIL. Sweet guy & not bad looking for our age group. I sent his pic to son #1 and asked if he knew him and what he thought. Got rave reviews so I reached out. I “liked” him and the next day he “liked” me back. Long story short, we’ve been talking and seeing each other pretty much non-stop since then and things are going great!! Who woulda thunk? lol
> 
> Funny thing is that I worked there for about 10 months a year or so ago and our paths never crossed. I wasn’t really ready for it then though. I had some more processing to do, ya know?
> 
> The Facebook dating thing still seems superficial to me because it’s mostly photos like the others but the shared friends thing changed everything in this instance.
> 
> Anyway...I think I’m FINALLY on to something here. Wish me luck!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for you! I do think that maybe he was trying to be funny, though obviously I don't find it all that funny. However... when you are trying to impress someone with humor, that's when your jokes tend to fall flat, so it may be an attempt to impress me.

If I continue the conversation, I think I may ignore the comment. He will loom soon enough what I'm really about.

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----------



## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> Exactly, hard to tell... especially when we haven't met or spoken in person.
> 
> We've only been chatting on the app for a few days, intermittently.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I guess my first impression of it isn't all that favorable because I don't behave that way unless I know someone better.

I don't mind a jab in my direction from someone I know well and I know they have my back but not someone I'm just getting to know.


----------



## Blondilocks

FeministInPink said:


> Good for you! I do think that maybe he was trying to be funny, though obviously I don't find it all that funny. However... when you are trying to impress someone with humor, that's when your jokes tend to fall flat, so it may be an attempt to impress me.
> 
> If I continue the conversation, I think I may ignore the comment. He will loom soon enough what I'm really about.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You can test his sense of humor by telling him that you were saving sharing your favorite hobby 'til you knew him better - carving the hearts out of cheating bastards. See if he laughs or blocks you.>


----------



## Not

FeministInPink said:


> Hive mind, I need your input. I've been chatting with this guy on Facebook Dating for a couple of days. See the following most recent exchange:
> 
> 
> 
> So my question is, is this guy negging me? If so, how do I respond?
> 
> You guys know me, I'm pretty far from being basic. My skills/abilities in these hobbies borders on professional.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I think mentioning that your skills border on professional would be the way to go and could lead to more good conversation.


----------



## Not

So what's this Facebook dating thing? This is the first I've heard of it. Is this something fairly new?


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## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> I guess my first impression of it isn't all that favorable because I don't behave that way unless I know someone better.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mind a jab in my direction from someone I know well and I know they have my back but not someone I'm just getting to know.


Right? That is exactly how I feel about it. It's making a poor impression on me.

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## bkyln309

Sounds like a joke! I tend to be sarcastic so I would not write him off for that! I think he was trying to be corny!


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## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> So what's this Facebook dating thing? This is the first I've heard of it. Is this something fairly new?




Yes...relatively new. 

It’s under menu. 


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----------



## FeministInPink

Blondilocks said:


> You can test his sense of humor by telling him that you were saving sharing your favorite hobby 'til you knew him better - carving the hearts out of cheating bastards. See if he laughs or blocks you.>


I could, but responding that way... doesn't feel like me. It would feel like I was putting on an act. I am nothing if noth authentic and real.


Not said:


> I think mentioning that your skills border on professional would be the way to go and could lead to more good conversation.


I thought about that... but it feels like I'm buying into the neg and trying to impress him and get his approval. Which is the whole point/the psychology of the neg.

My thought is just ignore it for now, and wait, watch, and listen. When he actually realizes how good I am at these things, and inevitably comments on it... I will bring up the basic comment. "Really? Because if I recall correctly, you said my interest in music was BASIC." And see how he responds. 

I don't mind letting people underestimate me. I don't need to correct them, because eventually the offender is proven wrong, or someone else corrects them.

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## FeministInPink

bkyln309 said:


> Sounds like a joke! I tend to be sarcastic so I would not write him off for that! I think he was trying to be corny!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Meh... I clearly didn't find it funny. And I do have a sense of humor.

I have never liked sarcasm, and frankly I sometimes find it triggering. True sarcasm can be brilliant, but is very rare. Most people pass off *******ry as sarcasm. I find such people mean, insulting, thoughtless, and lacking in empathy--and totally disconnected and uninterested in how their words might make others feel.

I am a very literal person. Someone who uses sarcasm (poorly) without really knowing how I might react... a definite error on his part.

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## Faithful Wife

Yeah that did sound a little neggy, FIP!! Dang, it's so hard to know via PM/text. Without nuance and tone, we just don't know sometimes.

But if you assume it was neggy and say something, and if it actually wasn't, then he is likely to think you are too sensitive. However, if it WAS meant to be neggy he would ALSO accuse you of being too sensitive! Ugh! We can't win sometimes.

The only thing I can say in his defense is that I sometimes say/type something that just pops in my head without filtering first, and then later realize oh wow, that probably didn't come out right. So maybe he is just a dumbass like me.

You will know soon enough though. Because if he's neggy or just a jerk, he will say something unmistakeably jerk-ish soon.


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah that did sound a little neggy, FIP!! Dang, it's so hard to know via PM/text. Without nuance and tone, we just don't know sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> But if you assume it was neggy and say something, and if it actually wasn't, then he is likely to think you are too sensitive. However, if it WAS meant to be neggy he would ALSO accuse you of being too sensitive! Ugh! We can't win sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing I can say in his defense is that I sometimes say/type something that just pops in my head without filtering first, and then later realize oh wow, that probably didn't come out right. So maybe he is just a dumbass like me.
> 
> 
> 
> You will know soon enough though. Because if he's neggy or just a jerk, he will say something unmistakeably jerk-ish soon.


You so get me 

Ok, so I have decided that I will ignore the potentially neggy comment and continue the conversation and see what happens.

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## FeministInPink

BTW, thanks for the input, guys. I feel better knowing that my reading of that wasn't way out in left field.

I'm working on recognizing bad/unhealthy behaviors on my own part as well as on the part of others. I'm getting better.

Something that I have realized as I've been considering negging specifically in the last few months... Real Estate negged me on multiple occasions, and thinking back on it, I can see exactly how it worked and created the effect that he wanted. 

It would appear that my entire life is one big learning process.


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----------



## Mr.Married

Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah that did sound a little neggy, FIP!! Dang, it's so hard to know via PM/text. Without nuance and tone, we just don't know sometimes.
> 
> But if you assume it was neggy and say something, and if it actually wasn't, then he is likely to think you are too sensitive. However, if it WAS meant to be neggy he would ALSO accuse you of being too sensitive! Ugh! We can't win sometimes.
> 
> The only thing I can say in his defense is that I sometimes say/type something that just pops in my head without filtering first, and then later realize oh wow, that probably didn't come out right. So maybe he is just a dumbass like me.
> 
> You will know soon enough though. Because if he's neggy or just a jerk, he will say something unmistakeably jerk-ish soon.


Lots of truth in there.

I look back at my own post often and realize they may have been very easy to misinterpret. 

Type/Text just doesn’t carry that inflection that can totally change the meaning


----------



## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> I dunno Fip...maybe a little more convo to see where he’s coming from? Perhaps he was trying to be funny but I don’t understand the punchline if he was. That doesn’t sound like the usual response to me and you were being honest (but we know you better).
> 
> Speaking of Facebook dating...I had a couple glasses of wine one night and quickly (but not very seriously) filled out a profile too. After a couple of days, this fella pops up who I had 3 mutual friends with. Huh? Who is this? His place of employment was the same as my 2 sons and DIL. Sweet guy & not bad looking for our age group. I sent his pic to son #1 and asked if he knew him and what he thought. Got rave reviews so I reached out. I “liked” him and the next day he “liked” me back. Long story short, we’ve been talking and seeing each other pretty much non-stop since then and things are going great!! Who woulda thunk? lol
> 
> Funny thing is that I worked there for about 10 months a year or so ago and our paths never crossed. I wasn’t really ready for it then though. I had some more processing to do, ya know?
> 
> The Facebook dating thing still seems superficial to me because it’s mostly photos like the others but the shared friends thing changed everything in this instance.
> 
> Anyway...I think I’m FINALLY on to something here. Wish me luck!!


That's awesome, girl!! Keep us posted!!! :grin2:


----------



## FeministInPink

So I went out for Halloween Karaoke tonight. A friend of mine organizes a Halloween Karaoke Meetup with a costume contest with our favorite KJ at one of his regular shows every year, and this year it was actually on Halloween. She usually does it on a Saturday, but that didn't work out this year. I came up with the idea to do Jessica Rabbit about a month ago, and I've been pulling all the pieces together, practicing with my wig, and making sure I got the makeup just how I wanted.

I participate in the contest, but I never expect to win, because some of my friends really go ALL OUT with movie special effect makeup and intricate costumes... some of them cosplay, I think. But I really like dressing up and doing something for ME, because my XH hated Halloween and refused to do anything for the holiday. So after we split, I decided that I'm going to splurge on myself and do whatever costume I want to do, and I go out, and I have fun.

Well...

I WON THE COSTUME CONTEST!

They do it by audience applause/cheers, and they do a couple rounds until it's down to the final two, who introduce themselves before people vote. So the other girl introduced her costume, saying she was Lady Gaga, and she was born this way (she had just sung the song), and she got a lot of cheers. They came to me, and I said in my best husky voice, "I'm Jessica Rabbit. I'm not bad, I'm just drawn this way." And the audience went NUTS, just crazy cheering and everything... I totally didn't expect it!

Anyway, that was just a blast. And it was made even better by a friend who, when he found out about my costume, begged to be my Roger Rabbit, and put together a costume in a couple of days.

And the male attention because of this costume was off. the. hook. I have never had so many guys talk to me in one night at a bar. Crazy.


----------



## Faithful Wife

That is so freaking awesome FIP!!!

Love it!!

Wish I was there, so happy you had a great night. Swoon!!


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> That is so freaking awesome FIP!!!
> 
> Love it!!
> 
> Wish I was there, so happy you had a great night. Swoon!!


Thank you! 

I love this costume, I would love to have another opportunity to wear it. I felt so beautiful and confident in it. (Except my heels were too tight. But they made my ass look great, LOL)


----------



## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is so freaking awesome FIP!!!
> 
> Love it!!
> 
> Wish I was there, so happy you had a great night. Swoon!!
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> I love this costume, I would love to have another opportunity to wear it. I felt so beautiful and confident in it. (Except my heels were too tight. But they made my ass look great, LOL)
Click to expand...

What a great single gal night....the best!!! Freaking Jessica Rabbit and you killed it. 

Again...swoon!


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## Elizabeth001

Love it Fip! You go girl! 


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## Lila

@FeministInPink You deserved the win. 
You owned that costume! 

What did you sing in your costume?


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## ReformedHubby

You looked amazing in that costume @FeministInPink!


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## Laurentium

For some reason that costume makes me think "baby just cares for me" as performed by Nina Simone.


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## ConanHub

@FeministInPink

WOW!!


----------



## bkyln309

FeministInPink said:


> Meh... I clearly didn't find it funny. And I do have a sense of humor.
> 
> I have never liked sarcasm, and frankly I sometimes find it triggering. True sarcasm can be brilliant, but is very rare. Most people pass off *******ry as sarcasm. I find such people mean, insulting, thoughtless, and lacking in empathy--and totally disconnected and uninterested in how their words might make others feel.
> 
> I am a very literal person. Someone who uses sarcasm (poorly) without really knowing how I might react... a definite error on his part.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I agree without knowing you he should keep it 100. But my bet is he was nervous. 

For me, I appreciate sarcasm and directness but I am not thin skinned at all and hardly ever get offended. I think it goes back to my family of origin. Growing up with Italians didnt really make one overly sensitive. And I could never be with someone who overthought my every gesture or word and didnt give me the benefit of the doubt. But as the old saying goes, Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## In Absentia

Sounds like a creep to me... :laugh:


----------



## Andy1001

FeministInPink said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I love this costume, I would love to have another opportunity to wear it. I felt so beautiful and confident in it. (Except my heels were too tight. But they made my ass look great, LOL)


It will soon be Christmas and I can picture you in that dress singing “Santa Baby” to some lucky dude.


----------



## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> Love it Fip! You go girl!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Lila said:


> @FeministInPink You deserved the win.
> You owned that costume!
> 
> What did you sing in your costume?





ReformedHubby said:


> You looked amazing in that costume @FeministInPink!





ConanHub said:


> @FeministInPink
> 
> WOW!!





Andy1001 said:


> It will soon be Christmas and I can picture you in that dress singing “Santa Baby” to some lucky dude.


Thanks, everybody!
@Lila I sang "Because The Night" by 10,000 Maniacs. I wanted to do something sultry and sexy... Amy Winehouse songs have the right musical sound for the era that I wanted, but they are very dark lyrically, but "Because the Night" seemed to hit the right tone. (It went over very well.)
@Andy1001 OMG, that is brilliant. I could get a Santa hat... the same friend will likely arrange a Christmas karaoke party. Even if there isn't a special guy in my life by Christmas time, I could definitely do that.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

Laurentium said:


> For some reason that costume makes me think "baby just cares for me" as performed by Nina Simone.


I didn't know this song, so I had to look it up. I can totally see why you would make that association!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

In Absentia said:


> Sounds like a creep to me...


Other than this blip, he's seemed ok so far. I'm going to let this play out and see what (if anything) happens.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

FeministInPink said:


> Hive mind, I need your input. I've been chatting with this guy on Facebook Dating for a couple of days. See the following most recent exchange:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HIM: What do you like to do outside of work?
> ME: I love to read. I like to write, but I've taken a hiatus from that as of late. I love music... I like going to karaoke. I like traveling, but I haven't done enough of that lately, something I hope to remedy soon. What about you?
> HIM: Aside from karaoke, did you just recite the top three from the basic girl girl manual? [LOL crying emoji]
> HIM: Where do you go to karaoke?
> 
> 
> 
> So my question is, is this guy negging me? If so, how do I respond?
> 
> You guys know me, I'm pretty far from being basic. My skills/abilities in these hobbies borders on professional.
Click to expand...

There's a basic girl manual? I definitely need a copy then, because my three guesses for basic girl activities would be things like shopping, makeup, and watching reality TV.

I wouldn't respond to the comment, and it seemed rhetorical as he went right on to ask a proper question. But it's good you're aware of it.


----------



## Cynthia

@FeministInPink, I wouldn't make too much of his comment. It seems more awkward than rude. You seem to be playing it by ear and learning more about this person. You'll know soon enough whether he just has trouble communicating over that channel or if he is a pass.


----------



## ConanHub

Mrs. Conan and I need to be in D.C. next Halloween!

Way more fun than what we did!:smile2:


----------



## notmyjamie

Hopeful Cynic said:


> There's a basic girl manual? I definitely need a copy then, because my three guesses for basic girl activities would be things like shopping, makeup, and watching reality TV.


Oh God...more proof that I'm not a real girl. I do none of those things!!!! :surprise:

ETA: FIP...you look amazing!! I think you won Halloween this year!!!!


----------



## Laurentium

FeministInPink said:


> I didn't know this song, so I had to look it up. I can totally see why you would make that association!


IN that case, try this video....


----------



## FeministInPink

Laurentium said:


> IN that case, try this video....
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2AHuRvvHR4


That's the video I watched!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> That's the video I watched!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


How did you post so many pictures? Are they attachments? TAM will barely let me post one.


----------



## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> How did you post so many pictures? Are they attachments? TAM will barely let me post one.


I don't know, maybe the file sizes of my pics are small? I only just discovered how to do it on the app. 

The only thing I can think of is that I didn't take these pictures. My friend took them and then texted them to me, and I saved them to my phone. Her phone must have compressed the files so the file size was small enough to text.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> I don't know, maybe the file sizes of my pics are small? I only just discovered how to do it on the app.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is that I didn't take these pictures. My friend took them and then texted them to me, and I saved them to my phone. Her phone must have compressed the files so the file size was small enough to text.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Thanks!:smile2:

That did the trick!


----------



## Blondilocks

Did Ynot, the OP, ask to be banned? Someone had inquired on the ban thread back in early October and the question was deleted without being answered.


----------



## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> Did Ynot, the OP, ask to be banned? Someone had inquired on the ban thread back in early October and the question was deleted without being answered.


Hmmm.

I guess when they ban any question about you, you are unquestionably finito.

For some while, rather short lived, certainly now, long gone.

........................................................................................................................

Or, shhh, they were answered privately, using PM. The answer not being fit for public consumption. :surprise:

Anytime you need an unanswered question answered, ask a Leprechaun. :laugh:

Your' welcome!



King Brian-

If I ever disappear, question THRD. If/when the old boy returns. I told him not to bother.


----------



## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> Did Ynot, the OP, ask to be banned? Someone had inquired on the ban thread back in early October and the question was deleted without being answered.


It may be hurtful personal problems, not needing any erring remarks, nor any fresh airing out.


Lilith-


----------



## rockon

Blondilocks said:


> Did Ynot, the OP, ask to be banned? Someone had inquired on the ban thread back in early October and the question was deleted without being answered.


That was me. No idea why it was deleted.


----------



## heartsbeating

FeministInPink said:


> @Andy1001 OMG, that is brilliant. I could get a Santa hat... the same friend will likely arrange a Christmas karaoke party. Even if there isn't a special guy in my life by Christmas time, I could definitely do that.


YES!! This is a fantastic idea... santa hat with that costume, singing 'Santa baby'... oooh that would be a great combo!

Well done!


----------



## FeministInPink

So, funny thing happened tonight... I'm having a low-key evening because I went out the last two nights, and I have Sunday plans. I went to the bookstore, and then I went to a local restaurant to get some carry out because I had some gift cards I wanted to use. 

Anyway, while waiting for my food, a young guy next to me started telling the bartender about this issue he was having with a young lady in his friend group (they hooked up a couple of times, he doesn't want more but she does, it's causing problems with the friend group). I made a comment, and the bartender was like, I think you need to be asking her for advice instead of me. So the young man and I started chatting about his situation for a few minutes until my food arrived, and he asked if he could buy me a drink because he wanted to keep picking my brain, so I agreed. 

By the end of the conversation, he's like, you're amazing and brilliant and I need to introduce you to my friend Sean, he is single and I think you guys would hit it off. The guy sitting on the other side of me and the bartender both chimed in, and they were like, you should go for it!

I have agreed to be set up on a blind date by a random millennial I met while waiting for my carry out. So that happened.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> So, funny thing happened tonight... I'm having a low-key evening because I went out the last two nights, and I have Sunday plans. I went to the bookstore, and then I went to a local restaurant to get some carry out because I had some gift cards I wanted to use.
> 
> Anyway, while waiting for my food, a young guy next to me started telling the bartender about this issue he was having with a young lady in his friend group (they hooked up a couple of times, he doesn't want more but she does, it's causing problems with the friend group). I made a comment, and the bartender was like, I think you need to be asking her for advice instead of me. So the young man and I started chatting about his situation for a few minutes until my food arrived, and he asked if he could buy me a drink because he wanted to keep picking my brain, so I agreed.
> 
> By the end of the conversation, he's like, you're amazing and brilliant and I need to introduce you to my friend Sean, he is single and I think you guys would hit it off. The guy sitting on the other side of me and the bartender both chimed in, and they were like, you should go for it!
> 
> I have agreed to be set up on a blind date by a random millennial I met while waiting for my carry out. So that happened.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Awesome story Wonder Woman!


----------



## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> Awesome story Wonder Woman!


I'm still kind of like, what just happened?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> I'm still kind of like, what just happened?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yeah, but regardless of the outcome, interactions like that between people are pretty cool!


----------



## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> Yeah, but regardless of the outcome, interactions like that between people are pretty cool!


It was pretty cool! And I think I helped him a bit, so that makes me feel good.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## ReformedHubby

I ended up hurting my girlfriend pretty badly on Sunday, and its all my fault. Ultimately I think we will be fine, but something careless really put a damper on what otherwise was a great weekend. I wouldn't say that my past is all that checkered, but it could be better, I haven't really cleaned up my phone the way that I should have when in a serious relationship. I don't really do social media so that was unnecessary. Although very rare, sometimes someone from long ago reaches out to check in, or just to say hi. Sometimes it could be someone you only went on one date with, but sometimes its a person you had a fling with. I gave my girlfriend my phone on Sunday to show her a house I wanted to look at. When she gave me my phone back, her demeanor had completely changed. He hands were shaking, and she ordered a very strong drink after that, which was unusual for Sunday Afternoon. I asked her what was wrong, she said don't ever give me your phone again. I looked at my phone and I got an incoming message from a previous flame right when I handed her the phone. It wasn't a super sexual message or anything, but it was along the lines of "whats up sexy what you been up to these days, we should catch up". The only good thing is the message indicated it had been a while since she had seen me in person. If it hadn't. I might have gotten dumped.

I don't even really care for this person all that much because looking back I feel like she was a bit of a user. I love being generous, but only to those I feel aren't expecting it. But....I never deleted this woman...and I never really deleted anyone truth be told. Looking back at why I never cleaned ghosts out of my phone, I could say because I wasn't thinking about it. But if I am being honest with myself. I do get a kick out of how sometimes people you barely knew popping back up. I haven't taken anyone up on invitations since dating.... I am just nice and then casually mention that I am dating someone and usually you don't hear from them again....but sometimes they pop back up again in a few months. Or in this persons case I really don't think she cares if I am dating someone or not. 

Pretty upset with myself right now. I can't believe I let something like this hurt my girlfriend, so I've began the process of blocking and deleting pretty much every female in my phone except relatives and co-workers. I don't want her to look at me the way she did on Sunday ever again. Whatever ego boost I got from the occasional pop ups wasn't worth it, and boy do I regret it. Dumb...its not realistic to think that being friends with someone you used to bang can work...especially if that person isn't interested so much in just being friends. Lesson learned...and I've got a lot to make up for now. But I refuse to become the person I used to be. My girl means too much to me. Not really expecting any responses. Just sharing...which is what this thread is for.


----------



## Lila

@ReformedHubby sorry you are dealing with this with your girlfriend. I hope she will see the effort you are putting forth to clear your life of the clutter, so to speak.


----------



## Lila

On a slightly different note.... I think I'm on my way to becoming the crazy cat lady. I had a friend just call to ask if I'd be interested in taking a stray kitten that ended up on her front stoop last night. I'm actually considering it. This could be the first of many 😄


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> On a slightly different note.... I think I'm on my way to becoming the crazy cat lady. I had a friend just call to ask if I'd be interested in taking a stray kitten that ended up on her front stoop last night. I'm actually considering it. This could be the first of many 😄


Nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh:


----------



## Affaircare

...sometimes life opens doors


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a slightly different note.... I think I'm on my way to becoming the crazy cat lady. I had a friend just call to ask if I'd be interested in taking a stray kitten that ended up on her front stoop last night. I'm actually considering it. This could be the first of many 😄
> 
> 
> 
> Nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!<a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile_big.png" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" ></a>
Click to expand...

And I'm super allergic to them. This will be interesting. 




Affaircare said:


> ...sometimes life opens doors


I think God is sending me the universal signal that I need to hang it up. Lol


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Affaircare said:


> ...sometimes life opens doors


AC is a "cat lady" person...


----------



## Lila

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Affaircare said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...sometimes life opens doors
> 
> 
> 
> AC is a "cat lady" person...
Click to expand...

Why do I get the feeling that there is a double entendre in there somewhere? 😄


----------



## Affaircare

Lila said:


> Why do I get the feeling that there is a double entendre in there somewhere? 😄


As I said...life opens doors...


----------



## Cynthia

Affaircare said:


> As I said...life opens doors...


I see you found yourself a tiger. :grin2:


----------



## Lila

Lila said:


> On a slightly different note.... I think I'm on my way to becoming the crazy cat lady. I had a friend just call to ask if I'd be interested in taking a stray kitten that ended up on her front stoop last night. I'm actually considering it. This could be the first of many 😄


An update to my potential cat adoption....

My friend ended up keeping her. It was for the best. As sweet as kitty is, I had a sneezing fit when I met her today. Had to break out the Benadryl. 

Maybe some stray puppy will show up at my door (Now just watch it's a Mastiff/Dane mix, lol).


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> An update to my potential cat adoption....
> 
> My friend ended up keeping her. It was for the best. As sweet as kitty is, I had a sneezing fit when I met her today. Had to break out the Benadryl.
> 
> Maybe some stray puppy will show up at my door (Now just watch it's a Mastiff/Dane mix, lol).


NOOOOOooooooooo!!! Don't get a dog!!!!

If you do, then you will end up getting a boyfriend right after that and he will want to whisk you away on a romantic vacation and THEN you'll have to figure out what to do with the dog in your absence!!! And even if you do find someone to watch the dog, the dog usually gets traumatized by the whole ordeal, kind of like leaving a very small child with unknown relatives for a week!


----------



## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> An update to my potential cat adoption....
> 
> My friend ended up keeping her. It was for the best. As sweet as kitty is, I had a sneezing fit when I met her today. Had to break out the Benadryl.
> 
> Maybe some stray puppy will show up at my door (Now just watch it's a Mastiff/Dane mix, lol).
> 
> 
> 
> NOOOOOooooooooo!!! Don't get a dog!!!!
> 
> If you do, then you will end up getting a boyfriend right after that and he will want to whisk you away on a romantic vacation and THEN you'll have to figure out what to do with the dog in your absence!!! And even if you do find someone to watch the dog, the dog usually gets traumatized by the whole ordeal, kind of like leaving a very small child with unknown relatives for a week!
Click to expand...

Lol. All of that from a puppy? 

But seriously, my mini dachshund was never kenneled. Frankly she was spoiled. She traveled with me everywhere or I took her to Grandma's in South Beach for a vacation (she loved loved loved that). Heck she didn't even jump on sofas. She'd come over, scratch my leg with her paw, and I'd _lift[/] her onto the sofa. She was a princess but was loyal to the very end. My shadow. Any new dog will be just as spoiled._


----------



## lifeistooshort

Ha ha.....I have 3 cats and it hasn't deterred anyone.
@ReformedHubby, if my ex hb had taken your attitude when I found his message history with his ex gf we might still be married.

But he decided that his pathetic ego kibbles and conflict avoidance were worth more than my hurt.

I'm better off without him so it all worked out....just saying that it could have been handled if he'd reacted like you.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Lol. All of that from a puppy?
> 
> But seriously, my mini dachshund was never kenneled. Frankly she was spoiled. She traveled with me everywhere or I took her to Grandma's in South Beach for a vacation (she loved loved loved that). Heck she didn't even jump on sofas. She'd come over, scratch my leg with her paw, and I'd _lift[/] her onto the sofa. She was a princess but was loyal to the very end. My shadow. Any new dog will be just as spoiled._


_

I understand and I love dogs also. And cats!

But they are sometimes a deterrent in the dating world.

Just saying.

Personally when I see a profile of a person who has pets, I’m turned off. No matter how cute the animal is, I can’t help but assume the owner may have different levels of hygiene standards than I do and will have animals in their bed, which automatically makes me adverse to them (because I will not sleep or have sex in a bed that has animals in it).

Having said that...last weekend I was out on my deck which is on the ground floor, and the sweetest little cat just came wandering onto my deck and made herself at home with me. She was so vocal, wanted to be pet and get on my lap, purring and meowing, and spent a good hour with me out there. It was so nice to feel that affection coming from a sweet animal. It’s so tempting to invite them in or feed them. 

But I did not, because I know the moment you let them inside they will crap and pee on everything and then dart under the bed where you can’t reach them! :surprise:

The cat meowed for a long time outside my sliding door, looking in and begging me to adopt her. I just can’t do that to myself no matter how lonely I am. Poor kitty, I hope she found her way home._


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> But I did not, because I know the moment you let them inside they will crap and pee on everything and then dart under the bed where you can’t reach them! :surprise:
> 
> The cat meowed for a long time outside my sliding door, looking in and begging me to adopt her. I just can’t do that to myself no matter how lonely I am. Poor kitty, I hope she found her way home.












The fatter and fluffier they are, the more my heart would melt.


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Personally when I see a profile of a person who has pets, I’m turned off. No matter how cute the animal is, I can’t help but assume the owner may have different levels of hygiene standards than I do and will have animals in their bed, which automatically makes me adverse to them (because I will not sleep or have sex in a bed that has animals in it).


Preach, sister. We got two cats because my XH wanted them SO BADLY, and then guess who had to take care of them? It didn't matter how much I vacuumed, there was still cat hair all over the place. And the cats tracked litter EVERYWHERE, and it was impossible to keep them off the bed. Every once in a while I think that I would like a pet again, but then I remember all of that....

But it's more than just the cleanliness issue. Having a pet puts a real cramp in plans, especially if you have a dog. You can't go out for more than a couple of hours, because you have to get home to let the dog out. You can't decide to take a weekend trip at the last minute because you'd have to figure out what to do with the dog, and if you want to go on a longer trip, you need to find a dog sitter, or board the dog. 

And I know this is probably atypical, but it's something I'm wary of: Real Estate was overly attached, emotionally, to his dog, and he would have really bad separation anxiety. It would make him grumpy, and he would keep saying how he missed his dog and he couldn't wait to get home to see her. He would say this even when we were just away for a few hours. I know that's not every dog owner, but it is something that I am wary of.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Ms. Hawaii

I decided to delete ******* and tinder. I don’t know what I want, so I decided to take a step back. 

Besides, most men are so weird online.


----------



## Lila

I went hiking with a social group this weekend and spent a good part of the hike chatting with an attractive 51 year old guy. We were hitting it off great when we started talking about our kids. He said he had 4 kids and went on and on about the oldest 2 ( in their 20s). He talked about how difficult it was to date to which I agreed. Then we talked about why we felt we were having a hard time finding others and I mentioned my penchant for meeting men with very young children. He busted out laughing and let me know he also has a 6 and 3 year old. I started laughing as well. At that point he said "I take it you're not interested in going on a date with me" to which I responded "no but I would welcome a new friend" and left it at that. And that was that. 

Sigh, why do I attract the oopsie daddies?


----------



## 2&out

No more raising kids is why I am not making my situation more permanent. Mine are out. She has 16 yr old. My home is and will stay kid free. I like and am pretty great with kids. They are welcome to visit and even stay short term anytime - but not permanently.


----------



## notmyjamie

ReformedHubby said:


> I ended up hurting my girlfriend pretty badly on Sunday, and its all my fault. Ultimately I think we will be fine, but something careless really put a damper on what otherwise was a great weekend. I wouldn't say that my past is all that checkered, but it could be better, I haven't really cleaned up my phone the way that I should have when in a serious relationship.


I hope your girlfriend is feeling better about things. It's possible you forgot to clean up your phone because being with your girl has made you forget about those other woman and so it didn't even come into your brain to clean up your phone. They were out of your mind.


----------



## ReformedHubby

notmyjamie said:


> I hope your girlfriend is feeling better about things. It's possible you forgot to clean up your phone because being with your girl has made you forget about those other woman and so it didn't even come into your brain to clean up your phone. They were out of your mind.


Things are better, back to our normal. For about a day or so though I could tell she was bothered by it, so I just did my best to be understanding. Regarding the explanation I really can't give myself a pass. I never bothered to do it, and thats on me. Its something I should have done. She did a lot of cleaning of her facebook page when we became serious, changed her status etc. I owed her the same courtesy and respect on my phone. I still feel bad about it, but I am glad its something that I can learn from without losing her altogether.


----------



## notmyjamie

ReformedHubby said:


> Things are better, back to our normal. For about a day or so though I could tell she was bothered by it, so I just did my best to be understanding. Regarding the explanation I really can't give myself a pass. I never bothered to do it, and thats on me. Its something I should have done. She did a lot of cleaning of her facebook page when we became serious, changed her status etc. I owed her the same courtesy and respect on my phone. I still feel bad about it, but I am glad its something that I can learn from without losing her altogether.


The important thing is that you did learn from it and it must help that you have taken responsibility for your screw up. Instead of blaming her for being upset by it you validated her feelings and apologized. That's something a lot of people could learn from...good job. 

I'm glad things are back to normal. She's lucky to have you.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I went hiking with a social group this weekend and spent a good part of the hike chatting with an attractive 51 year old guy. We were hitting it off great when we started talking about our kids. He said he had 4 kids and went on and on about the oldest 2 ( in their 20s). He talked about how difficult it was to date to which I agreed. Then we talked about why we felt we were having a hard time finding others and I mentioned my penchant for meeting men with very young children. He busted out laughing and let me know he also has a 6 and 3 year old. I started laughing as well. At that point he said "I take it you're not interested in going on a date with me" to which I responded "no but I would welcome a new friend" and left it at that. And that was that.
> 
> Sigh, why do I attract the oopsie daddies?


That's crazy!! For this to happen yet AGAIN!!! Gotta wonder what's up with that. For me, I keep attracting younger black guys. Not that I am complaining, but it just seems odd that this happens over and over. For the past couple of days, I'm doing an experiment where I am only "liking" or swiping white guys around my own age to see what happens. I mean, I have had plenty of that kind of matches in the past and lots of dates with middle aged white guys. But for some reason the past 6 months to a year, it has been mostly the younger black guys. So for an experiment I'm just not swiping them to see what happens. Actually the best boyfriend I've ever had was a younger black guy and I'd love to have something like that again. However it wasn't his age or color that made it so great, it was our awesome spirited conversations.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ms. Hawaii said:


> I decided to delete ******* and tinder. I don’t know what I want, so I decided to take a step back.
> 
> Besides, most men are so weird online.


Ms. H....yes, time to take a break. Wait until you know a bit better what you actually want, and work towards being that type of person yourself (the type you would want to date). And pamper yourself and hang out with your sisters, girlfriends, mom, and other friends in the meantime!


----------



## Andy1001

Lila said:


> I went hiking with a social group this weekend and spent a good part of the hike chatting with an attractive 51 year old guy. We were hitting it off great when we started talking about our kids. He said he had 4 kids and went on and on about the oldest 2 ( in their 20s). He talked about how difficult it was to date to which I agreed. Then we talked about why we felt we were having a hard time finding others and I mentioned my penchant for meeting men with very young children. He busted out laughing and let me know he also has a 6 and 3 year old. I started laughing as well. At that point he said "I take it you're not interested in going on a date with me" to which I responded "no but I would welcome a new friend" and left it at that. And that was that.
> 
> Sigh, why do I attract the oopsie daddies?


Holy crap. He’s forty eight years older than his youngest child. 
When she’s eighteen and heading out into the world he’s going to be retired. 
He’l soon get tired of people mistaking him for Grandpa.


----------



## Lila

Andy1001 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went hiking with a social group this weekend and spent a good part of the hike chatting with an attractive 51 year old guy. We were hitting it off great when we started talking about our kids. He said he had 4 kids and went on and on about the oldest 2 ( in their 20s). He talked about how difficult it was to date to which I agreed. Then we talked about why we felt we were having a hard time finding others and I mentioned my penchant for meeting men with very young children. He busted out laughing and let me know he also has a 6 and 3 year old. I started laughing as well. At that point he said "I take it you're not interested in going on a date with me" to which I responded "no but I would welcome a new friend" and left it at that. And that was that.
> 
> Sigh, why do I attract the oopsie daddies?
> 
> 
> 
> Holy crap. He’s forty eight years older than his youngest child.
> When she’s eighteen and heading out into the world he’s going to be retired.
> He’l soon get tired of people mistaking him for Grandpa.
Click to expand...

 @Andy1001 I'm either a magnet for these types of men or there really are a lot of them out there. 

I have been contacted by many men in their 40s and 50s who after leaving their long term marriages with practically grown kids, found "younger and hotter" and had what I call "oopsie babies". They are now on the hook for another 18 years + of child rearing well into their golden years. 

I actually did give someone with young kids a shot. Went out on a four dates with a 50 year old who had kids later in life. He had shared custody of a 9 year old and a 4 year old. As nice and kind as he was, I wasn't going to waste his time. My kid is about to turn 14. I'm in a very different (and awesome) stage in child development with no desire to go back to the pre-teen ages.


----------



## Faithful Wife

A quick date update...went on a date weekend before last. It was actually fun and I did like the guy, however....

He had gained _at least 70 pounds_ since the last full body photo in his profile. Sigh....

Do people actually think we just won't care? Even though he (at least in part) choose me because he was attracted to my figure *in the way it was presented in my pictures*? I kind of wonder what he would have said or thought if I had also gained 70 pounds since my profile pictures? I'm guessing he would have felt duped. Right? Do people just tell themselves oh it's only a few pounds and I can lose that really fast? I don't understand.

A 10 pound weight gain, I likely would not even notice. But 70? It may have even been more than that, I'm being generous.

So partly my bad, his one full body pic did look old and when I went back to look at his profile again I was like oh yeah, I should not have missed that fact. It is a red flag if there are no full body pics or if there are only old looking ones. I should not have overlooked this.

Anyway, so we are chatting and having an ok time anyway and I'm trying to look past the weight and see him and get to know him. Things are going fine. Then we walk from inside a bar to the outside patio, and the FIRST thing he does the moment we are outside is rush over and talk to an entire table full of total strangers. As some of you might remember, being introverted, I don't like it when this happens. I had one boyfriend who insisted on talking to EVERYONE and not only that, he insisted on trying to force me into the conversation as well. It drove me crazy and was one of the main reasons I knew he and I could never be together long term (because he refused to accommodate me at all by just letting me drift away while he had his conversations).

My date talked to the strangers for well over 5 minutes while I drifted away and played on my phone. Good that he did not try to force me into the conversation. But bad that he also didn't really notice where I had gone.

Extroverts who do this seem to be wanting to let you know that they are "so friendly" and they seem to think it is a good selling point for them to prove this to you. Sigh...

So after he's done talking to the table full of strangers and comes to find me, we walk along and he starts telling me how he talks to everyone and has great energy and people just love talking to him (like I said, a selling point, in his mind).

I spoke up and said well I am actually introverted and dislike talking to strangers. That's why I bolted when you went to talk to them.

I could see his mind trying to work this out. Like I had surprised him by not saying "oh how cool that you want to talk to total strangers while on your first date with me!" Being introverted, it is also hard for me to work out that logic. Do you want to get to know me, or do you want to talk to total strangers who you will never see again? But being with several extroverts now, I get it.

It's just that they don't seem to get me/us (introverts).

So I knew it was doomed from that moment. The 70 pounds was not the ultimate deal breaker, the immediate need to talk to those strangers was (he continued to speak to other strangers throughout the night, as extroverts do).

We still proceeded with the date and I did have a good time. But I texted the next morning and said I'm sorry but I don't think we are a match. He was gracious, said "it's all good, I wish you the best" and I said I did, too. I'm glad he did not ask for a reason because I would have told the truth about the weight.

Onward and upward!


----------



## Elizabeth001

Well my new fella fell through. Had a great week and received notification for an interview with a company I’ve been trying to get on with over the last year. I’m in a great mood and it’s Friday. My guy is coming over to party with me and spend the night. What could go wrong? lol 

After we’re pretty toasted, he brings up politics and specifically Trump. Lost my lady boner and pretty much my whole mood. We talk about differences in political beliefs here a lot and I have had some relationships where my stance was the opposite but those worked out because we steered clear of the subject. You damned sure don’t go there when I’m in my cups. GRRRR Screwed up the whole night & by then, he was too tipsy to leave.

My whole marital PTSD kicked in. It was terrible. 

The next morning he asked if we could talk about it and I told him I wasn’t sure if things could proceed with him cheering Trump on every time the news came on. He gave me my house key back and asked for his so that is the end of that. 

I feel relieved. I saw a few red flags but was letting things play out. Now I feel like I dodged another bullet. 


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## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well my new fella fell through. Had a great week and received notification for an interview with a company I’ve been trying to get on with over the last year. I’m in a great mood and it’s Friday. My guy is coming over to party with me and spend the night. What could go wrong? lol
> 
> After we’re pretty toasted, he brings up politics and specifically Trump. Lost my lady boner and pretty much my whole mood. We talk about differences in political beliefs here a lot and I have had some relationships where my stance was the opposite but those worked out because we steered clear of the subject. You damned sure don’t go there when I’m in my cups. GRRRR Screwed up the whole night & by then, he was too tipsy to leave.
> 
> My whole marital PTSD kicked in. It was terrible.
> 
> The next morning he asked if we could talk about it and I told him I wasn’t sure if things could proceed with him cheering Trump on every time the news came on. He gave me my house key back and asked for his so that is the end of that.
> 
> I feel relieved. I saw a few red flags but was letting things play out. Now I feel like I dodged another bullet.


Aw crap! But still.....better sooner than later to find out. Make sure to ask upfront from now on! I know it is hard and awkward to ask, but I'm getting used to it now. It has to be done in order to avoid this scenario.

Can you explain why your martial PTSD kicked in?


----------



## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> Aw crap! But still.....better sooner than later to find out. Make sure to ask upfront from now on! I know it is hard and awkward to ask, but I'm getting used to it now. It has to be done in order to avoid this scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain why your martial PTSD kicked in?




So XH and I had this thing with Fridays towards the end of our marriage too. I would pick up our favorite cocktails and a nice dinner from one of our favorite restaurants so we didn’t have to cook. My feeling is that we work our arses off all week. Let’s celebrate and have fun together. His idea of fun together was me watching him watch tv (unlike in the beginning when we used to have real fun together). So...end the end, Fridays usually turned out to be very disappointing and typically led to arguments over the entire weekend. And then I would find myself dragging back in on Monday mornings wondering what it was all for. 

Maybe I haven’t processed enough but maybe I just don’t want to end up where I’ve been before.


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## Faithful Wife

Oh now I get it.


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## Elizabeth001

Yeah so why would anyone with half a brain bring up a prickly subject when you’re celebrating, having fun and anticipating some yummy morning sex?

Uhhhh...one I have no desire to be in a relationship with 


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## Faithful Wife

Next!


----------



## Not

I’m meeting someone new Friday night. I lost my mojo a little while back but forced myself back online. I don’t want to sit in the house alone all winter, even though I’m not totally sure I want to date lol! Not sure what I really want, I flip flop on this topic in my head constantly. 

This new guy lives in the same town as B so I’m already familiar with the area. We share the same birthdate but one year apart, we both thought that was a hoot. He’s not redneckified thank god, most men in my immediate area are and it’s just not attractive to me. He’s got more city in him. He’s not tall like I prefer but his body is just incredible. He’s in excellent shape for his age! Big plus for me because I want to get healthier and he could teach me a lot. The only thing, at this point, that could ruin it is if he has lied about his height. Please be that inch and a half taller than me lol! I am not holding my breath!

He’s also never been married, has never wanted kids and has never been in a relationship over a year. He keeps saying he’s always been independent and never gotten deeply involved but now he’s looking for something deep and long term. I’m not so sure I believe someone like that can truly change what seems to be a deeply rooted way of being. So yeah, I’ll be asking a lot questions when we meet. Ironic that I meet someone like this at a time when I’ve been questioning myself on those very things. I’ve gotten to where I like my independence and I’m not entirely turned on by the idea of living with someone again but I don’t know what a relationship would look like between two people like that. It’s all totally new and foreign to me.


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## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> I’m meeting someone new Friday night. I lost my mojo a little while back but forced myself back online. I don’t want to sit in the house alone all winter, even though I’m not totally sure I want to date lol! Not sure what I really want, I flip flop on this topic in my head constantly.
> 
> This new guy lives in the same town as B so I’m already familiar with the area. We share the same birthdate but one year apart, we both thought that was a hoot. He’s not redneckified thank god, most men in my immediate area are and it’s just not attractive to me. He’s got more city in him. He’s not tall like I prefer but his body is just incredible. He’s in excellent shape for his age! Big plus for me because I want to get healthier and he could teach me a lot. The only thing, at this point, that could ruin it is if he has lied about his height. Please be that inch and a half taller than me lol! I am not holding my breath!
> 
> He’s also never been married, has never wanted kids and has never been in a relationship over a year. He keeps saying he’s always been independent and never gotten deeply involved but now he’s looking for something deep and long term. I’m not so sure I believe someone like that can truly change what seems to be a deeply rooted way of being. So yeah, I’ll be asking a lot questions when we meet. Ironic that I meet someone like this at a time when I’ve been questioning myself on those very things. I’ve gotten to where I like my independence and I’m not entirely turned on by the idea of living with someone again but I don’t know what a relationship would look like between two people like that. It’s all totally new and foreign to me.


Good luck!! 

Yeah the height thing. That’s touchy. They do usually add an inch or two to their height so...good luck I hope he didn’t but...

The boyfriend I had this past summer who had to take on his sisters kids after a family tragedy and we broke up due to that...he did add inches to his height on his profile. However, he had such an amazing physique that it didn’t bother me in the least that he wasn’t as tall as he said. He was also much cuter in person than his pics even though his pics were totally cute. Hope yours works out that way too! 

Keep us posted!


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## As'laDain

Faithful Wife said:


> Good luck!!
> 
> *Yeah the height thing. That’s touchy. They do usually add an inch or two to their height so...good luck I hope he didn’t but...*
> 
> The boyfriend I had this past summer who had to take on his sisters kids after a family tragedy and we broke up due to that...he did add inches to his height on his profile. However, he had such an amazing physique that it didn’t bother me in the least that he wasn’t as tall as he said. He was also much cuter in person than his pics even though his pics were totally cute. Hope yours works out that way too!
> 
> Keep us posted!


is that a common thing that guys do? that makes absolutely no sense to me... why would someone lie about that? its not like the person they are talking to will never find out... 

WTF?


----------



## Livvie

To the above, I hear people do that with pictures (age and weight), as well, put out a picture from years ago or when they were at a significantly different weight. These things will be discovered upon meeting!


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## Elizabeth001

Livvie said:


> To the above, I hear people do that with pictures (age and weight), as well, put out a picture from years ago or when they were at a significantly different weight. These things will be discovered upon meeting!




The thing that bothers me about this is the dishonesty and also the low confidence they have that caused them to lie about it in the first place. I can’t stand liars!
@Not ...be careful. I would think that someone who has never had at least a long term relationship might be a pretty bad sign just as someone who has been married multiple times (like me...lol). Glad you are having fun dating though  Keep us posted!


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## notmyjamie

Faithful Wife said:


> Extroverts who do this seem to be wanting to let you know that they are "so friendly" and they seem to think it is a good selling point for them to prove this to you. Sigh...


My guy is an extrovert as well. He will talk to anybody. One day we were sitting at the bar of a nice restaurant and the guy next to him struck up a conversation. They both kept trying to draw me into it which was nice and polite, but I don't really like talking to strangers all that much. I played on my phone a bit until they were done and then we had a nice meal together and the other guy left us alone. It took a couple more instances like this for my guy to realize I'm just not going to want to talk to strangers all that much while we're out. He can do his thing for a few minutes but don't try to make me do it too. He's learned and so it's all good now. I don't mind if he does it and he doesn't mind if I don't. That's the kind of extrovert you need to find if you're going to date an extrovert.

I agree that extroverts think it's a selling point. "I can talk to anybody!" Well good for you...I have no interest. LOL



Elizabeth001 said:


> Well my new fella fell through.
> 
> The next morning he asked if we could talk about it and I told him I wasn’t sure if things could proceed with him cheering Trump on every time the news came on. He gave me my house key back and asked for his so that is the end of that.
> 
> I feel relieved. I saw a few red flags but was letting things play out. Now I feel like I dodged another bullet.



Ugh...I'm not one to talk lots of politics anyway but if someone started spouting the exact opposite of how I feel about things, especially Trump, I'd have a very hard time continuing that relationship. My STBXH is a republican and we learned very early on not to discuss politics. New guy is much more in line with me politically although he can get all worked up about stuff sometimes and I think he wonders why I don't get worked up. LOL



Andy1001 said:


> Holy crap. He’s forty eight years older than his youngest child.
> When she’s eighteen and heading out into the world he’s going to be retired.
> He’l soon get tired of people mistaking him for Grandpa.


I am 51...I can't even imagine having a 3 year old right now. My grandmother had my mother at 48. I'm always well aware of how fertile my family has been up until the mid 50's. I had a patient last week who was older than me. Kill.me.now fast or slow...I wouldn't care. Ugh.

My doctor tried to make me take my IUD out early as she thought "you won't need it anymore" I was like "you'll have to rip it from my cold, dead uterus." :grin2:


----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> Good luck!!
> 
> Yeah the height thing. That’s touchy. They do usually add an inch or two to their height so...good luck I hope he didn’t but...
> 
> The boyfriend I had this past summer who had to take on his sisters kids after a family tragedy and we broke up due to that...he did add inches to his height on his profile. However, he had such an amazing physique that it didn’t bother me in the least that he wasn’t as tall as he said. He was also much cuter in person than his pics even though his pics were totally cute. Hope yours works out that way too!
> 
> Keep us posted!


I’ve met to many already that lied about height so I’m not holding out hope lol! The last guy I met claimed to be 5 foot 11 but he turned out to be shorter than me and I’m 5 foot 8. Instant turn off for me. I suspect when a man lists his height as say under 5 foot 10 then he’s probably being honest, unless he’s 5 foot 5 lol! 

This guy’s body is something else, hubba!. :grin2:


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## Not

Elizabeth001 said:


> The thing that bothers me about this is the dishonesty and also the low confidence they have that caused them to lie about it in the first place. I can’t stand liars!
> @Not ...be careful. I would think that someone who has never had at least a long term relationship might be a pretty bad sign just as someone who has been married multiple times (like me...lol). Glad you are having fun dating though  Keep us posted!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We talked over the phone last night and I did ask him quite a few questions. He does not want to cohabitate and definitely never wants to marry, which is fine for where I’m at right now. He says he wants to meet someone to enjoy life with and have fun but he wants it to be long term. Maybe this is a bachelors way of settling down. 

I’ve been entertaining the idea of something very similar to what he’s looking for. I need more time to figure out what I want and hanging out with someone who leads this kind of lifestyle will show me up close and personal what that’s really like and maybe help me decide if that’s what I really want. And I will know going in that there is no chance for anything long-term so there’s not a whole lot of risk involved but there is the potential for a lot of fun and I’ll have a warm body next to me when I want. This will also tell me if I’m capable of doing something like this without getting wrapped up in someone emotionally, so some risk is still present. Decisions decisions!


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## Faithful Wife

As'laDain said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck!!
> 
> *Yeah the height thing. That’s touchy. They do usually add an inch or two to their height so...good luck I hope he didn’t but...*
> 
> The boyfriend I had this past summer who had to take on his sisters kids after a family tragedy and we broke up due to that...he did add inches to his height on his profile. However, he had such an amazing physique that it didn’t bother me in the least that he wasn’t as tall as he said. He was also much cuter in person than his pics even though his pics were totally cute. Hope yours works out that way too!
> 
> Keep us posted!
> 
> 
> 
> is that a common thing that guys do? that makes absolutely no sense to me... why would someone lie about that? its not like the person they are talking to will never find out...
> 
> WTF?
Click to expand...

With height, guys add an inch or two and I believe they don’t think you will notice. Because there won’t be a measuring stick around obviously. But they also under estimate how good we are at knowing height without a measure. We know very easily because we can compare against our own height and we have stood by men of all heights many times before.

They do it because they know women prefer taller men so they are just trying to get more swipes on the dating apps.

I’ve found that men under 6 foot are more likely to add an inch. Taller than 6 are usually honest.

The guy I dated who had the body to die for, he claimed to be 6 foot but was barely 5’10. I believe they also consider their height to be what they are in shoes, not stocking feet so they think they can pass for their exaggerated height because they will be wearing shoes when they meet you. They forget we will be wearing shoes also and most likely a heel of more than an inch. 

My preference is 6’3 to 6’5. Taller than that gets a little ridiculous next to me. Between 6 and 6’2 I’m still attracted but I don’t feel that wow factor. Unless of course he’s a brick house like the guy I mentioned in which case I can go as low as 5’10. But I’d still prefer a 6’5 brick house. Schwing!!


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## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> Elizabeth001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing that bothers me about this is the dishonesty and also the low confidence they have that caused them to lie about it in the first place. I can’t stand liars!
> @Not ...be careful. I would think that someone who has never had at least a long term relationship might be a pretty bad sign just as someone who has been married multiple times (like me...lol). Glad you are having fun dating though <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a> Keep us posted!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> We talked over the phone last night and I did ask him quite a few questions. He does not want to cohabitate and definitely never wants to marry, which is fine for where I’m at right now. He says he wants to meet someone to enjoy life with and have fun but he wants it to be long term. Maybe this is a bachelors way of settling down.
> 
> I’ve been entertaining the idea of something very similar to what he’s looking for. I need more time to figure out what I want and hanging out with someone who leads this kind of lifestyle will show me up close and personal what that’s really like and maybe help me decide if that’s what I really want. And I will know going in that there is no chance for anything long-term so there’s not a whole lot of risk involved but there is the potential for a lot of fun and I’ll have a warm body next to me when I want. This will also tell me if I’m capable of doing something like this without getting wrapped up in someone emotionally, so some risk is still present. Decisions decisions!
Click to expand...

But he says he does want long term. Why do you feel going in there is no chance for long term? 

What he described sounds perfect for me actually. Like a long term exclusive and great connection but just living near each other, not with each other.


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## Faithful Wife

Livvie said:


> To the above, I hear people do that with pictures (age and weight), as well, put out a picture from years ago or when they were at a significantly different weight. These things will be discovered upon meeting!


Yes this just happened to me with the guy who was at least 70 pounds more than his only full body shot on his profile. But when I went back and looked at it again, I realized it was obviously an old picture and not a current one. You can tell by the clarity of old versus new pics. Older ones never have the incredible detail and focus that our newer devices can take.

So I used that as a lesson not to ever over look that kind of detail again. It’s actually an easy thing to look for and I just didn’t that time. I will forever now.

I don’t know why people do that but I do see men’s profiles saying “please have current pics” a lot so I assume women do this too.


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## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck!!
> 
> Yeah the height thing. That’s touchy. They do usually add an inch or two to their height so...good luck I hope he didn’t but...
> 
> The boyfriend I had this past summer who had to take on his sisters kids after a family tragedy and we broke up due to that...he did add inches to his height on his profile. However, he had such an amazing physique that it didn’t bother me in the least that he wasn’t as tall as he said. He was also much cuter in person than his pics even though his pics were totally cute. Hope yours works out that way too!
> 
> Keep us posted!
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve met to many already that lied about height so I’m not holding out hope lol! The last guy I met claimed to be 5 foot 11 but he turned out to be shorter than me and I’m 5 foot 8. Instant turn off for me. I suspect when a man lists his height as say under 5 foot 10 then he’s probably being honest, unless he’s 5 foot 5 lol!
> 
> This guy’s body is something else, hubba!. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a>
Click to expand...

No actually the shorter ones do it more often. If he really is 5’5 he will say he is 5’7. I actually had a guy friend who showed me his profile once for feedback. He was in reality about 5’4 and listed himself as 5’7. I didn’t say anything about that but had to giggle to myself.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> The thing that bothers me about this is the dishonesty and also the low confidence they have that caused them to lie about it in the first place. I can’t stand liars!


Because I've encountered this so many times (mostly via stories of other people's dating experiences) and also have had a few friends and others I know do it themselves (such as my own mother! Long ago she had a profile and was using a pic at least 15 years old!!!), I see it as something a bit different than straight up lying. I think people have a vision of themselves that they want to project, even if that vision is not what anyone else sees. And their self vision is so strong to themselves that they actually believe it. Sometimes this can be a good thing, like a person who is maybe only minimally attractive but who sees themselves as very worthy and attractive, and then others DO actually see that better version due to his or her confidence and chutzpah. The opposite can happen too of course, a very attractive person can seem unattractive because they hate themselves or project an air of negativity all the time.

So anyway just saying that I see this situation as different than "lying" or being a liar. More like a delusion, where the person really wants to believe it so bad that they end up bending their brain around a corner in order to do so. The problem of course is that when it comes to something objective like height, no one else will ever believe in their delusion.


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## Elizabeth001

Faithful Wife said:


> But he says he does want long term. Why do you feel going in there is no chance for long term?
> 
> What he described sounds perfect for me actually. Like a long term exclusive and great connection but just living near each other, not with each other.




Not saying there’s no chance...just proceed with caution 


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----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> But he says he does want long term. Why do you feel going in there is no chance for long term?
> 
> What he described sounds perfect for me actually. Like a long term exclusive and great connection but just living near each other, not with each other.


I guess I'm being skeptical. For someone who's never been in a relationship that made it to the one year mark it seems unlikely he could actually know that he wants long term. He's never done it. That's a major lifestyle change for someone like him.


----------



## Not

When I first met B he told me he was so glad I wasn't 5'5 one day as we were hugging. He's 6'2. His exwife is 5'11. I hadn't thought about that until reading the height comments here today. Makes me wonder if tall men prefer taller women?? It does seem like it would be a little bit of a hassle for a 6'2 man to constantly have to stoop down to kiss a 5'5 SO.


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## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> When I first met B he told me he was so glad I wasn't 5'5 one day as we were hugging. He's 6'2. His exwife is 5'11. I hadn't thought about that until reading the height comments here today. Makes me wonder if tall men prefer taller women?? It does seem like it would be a little bit of a hassle for a 6'2 man to constantly have to stoop down to kiss a 5'5 SO.


I have had a couple of tall guys reject me for being short as they preferred a taller woman. Most don't seem to have a strong preference like that but some definitely do. My exh was tall and did say that being with a taller woman was cool in it's way because certain things line up better. But he always made me feel he was perfectly happy with my short ass.


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## As'laDain

eh, im only 5 feet 8 inches tall. im also really skinny. i only weigh about 130 pounds. I typically ignore anyones profile that states they wont date anyone as short as i am. to each their own i guess. 

i see no reason to lie about my physical measurements... just doesn't make sense.


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## Faithful Wife

As'laDain said:


> eh, im only 5 feet 8 inches tall. im also really skinny. i only weigh about 130 pounds. I typically ignore anyone profile that states they wont date anyone as short as i am. to each their own i guess.
> 
> i see no reason to lie about my physical measurements... just doesn't make sense.


I agree, though lots of people apparently do it.

I also don't put on my profile I'm looking for any specific physical attributes because I don't really see the point there, either. I just don't consider the ones who don't meet my parameters and they never know the difference because there was no match or correspondence.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> I guess I'm being skeptical. For someone who's never been in a relationship that made it to the one year mark it seems unlikely he could actually know that he wants long term. He's never done it. That's a major lifestyle change for someone like him.




Good girl! To reiterate, proceed with caution & enjoy the challenge 


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----------



## As'laDain

Faithful Wife said:


> I agree, though lots of people apparently do it.
> 
> I also don't put on my profile I'm looking for any specific physical attributes because I don't really see the point there, either. I just don't consider the ones who don't meet my parameters and they never know the difference because there was no match or correspondence.


ultimately, i guess it doesnt really matter for me. i stopped using online dating apps when i realized just how shallow people tend to be on them. even if they aren't shallow in real life, they are often shallow on dating apps.

i have had MUCH better success meeting people the old fashioned way... through mutual interests. hobbies, etc. im currently packing to go visit my girlfriend over the weekend. even if we weren't romantically interested in each other, i would still probably visit her as often as i could. we share a LOT of common interests.


----------



## Faithful Wife

As'laDain said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, though lots of people apparently do it.
> 
> I also don't put on my profile I'm looking for any specific physical attributes because I don't really see the point there, either. I just don't consider the ones who don't meet my parameters and they never know the difference because there was no match or correspondence.
> 
> 
> 
> ultimately, i guess it doesnt really matter for me. i stopped using online dating apps when i realized just how shallow people tend to be on them. even if they aren't shallow in real life, they are often shallow on dating apps.
> 
> i have had MUCH better success meeting people the old fashioned way... through mutual interests. hobbies, etc. im currently packing to go visit my girlfriend over the weekend. even if we weren't romantically interested in each other, i would still probably visit her as often as i could. we share a LOT of common interests.
Click to expand...

I mean, I do agree with you that we are shallow. In that we are all just looking at the pictures to make our evaluations. And that means we may swipe right on someone who looks good but who is a horrible person. We do take our chances that way.

But if you are a solid person yourself, you won’t keep dating someone like that even though they look good. 

For me I have a very wide range of who I find attractive even though I have my shallow parameters. There are lot of guys I find attractive that my friends and family do not understand why I see them that way. But if he passes the initial first dates, my people do end up liking him and eventually understand what I saw in him that made him attractive to me. Sometimes I can see into a person deeper than what their pictures are showing me.


----------



## Not

Mr. Never Been Married was a dud. Nice guy but flat personality, no fire or spunk at all. Onward and upward.

Now reporting what will hopefully be the last update on B lol! I wound up having to sue him. I loaned him money back in July when his truck got repo’d and he said he’d pay me back when he got his divorce settlement. I knew he was getting a large amount so I honestly wasn’t worried about it, even after we first broke up I wasn’t worried. 

I found out in September he had bought a corvette so I knew he had gotten the money but he told me he didn’t. Long story short he continued to lie, I warned him three times I’d sue him, he apparently didn’t believe me and I sued him lol! I was in court with him Friday morning. He paid me what he owed before our court date and asked me to drop the charges but refused to reimburse me my court costs so I took him to court. The judge made him pay my court costs. He is my online dating horror story! 

On a funny note, I was contacted by three TV shows asking to air my case against B lol! Judge Judy, The People’s Court and Judge Mathis. I took a picture of the letter from Judge Judy and sent it to B asking him “Wanna be on TV?” I know! Mean, but he deserved it lol! 

Friday was kind of a bummer for me because I was feeling like the whole thing had been so stupid and so unnecessary and none of it felt good. So I was happy to win and that it was over but disappointed that any of it happened. Just a complete waste of everyone’s time and energy. Then I got a text Friday night, from the guy I was seeing back in the spring, while I was on my date with Mr. Never Been Married lol! I‘ll call him Sky. He works on small engine aircraft. I broke things off with him because he never had any free time so we never saw each other and it was depressing. 

He said my words had been at the back of his mind for a long time and he realized I was right. He was working too much and had no life. So he hired two more guys to take some of the load off. Another long story short we chatted all evening and caught up then went out last night. I had a blast. Slot machines and rum and cokes and good chemistry! One positive thing I took away from dating B is that being around someone fun like him helped me loosen up and come out of my shell and so I’m way more relaxed now. I also had to stand up for myself against B so I must be giving off a new take no sh** vibe because Sky noticed the difference and kept commenting about it. He seemed kind of excited about my changes lol! So Friday turned out to be not so bad after all and Saturday was so much fun. We’ll see how things go, baby steps.


----------



## Not

Double post


----------



## Faithful Wife

Wow @Not what an update!!!


----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> Wow @Not what an update!!!


Yeah the whole situation with B has been so bizarre and almost unbelievable. It’s also part of why I haven’t been dating. I didn’t want to drag anyone else into this mess.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow @Not what an update!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the whole situation with B has been so bizarre and almost unbelievable. It’s also part of why I haven’t been dating. I didn’t want to drag anyone else into this mess.
Click to expand...

I’m so impressed that you followed through and won your case against him for the court costs and everything. What a tool! 

Also so cute that the man from the past has been rearranging his life based on your feelings and reached out to you again. Can’t wait for more updates on him!


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Faithful Wife said:


> Also so cute that the man from the past has been rearranging his life based on your feelings and reached out to you again. Can’t wait for more updates on him!


I agree! It's a sign of good character when people can take criticism fairly, analyze themselves, and make lasting changes.

Many people refuse to recognize that they could ever be wrong and would never change. I divorced one.


----------



## FeministInPink

Not said:


> When I first met B he told me he was so glad I wasn't 5'5 one day as we were hugging. He's 6'2. His exwife is 5'11. I hadn't thought about that until reading the height comments here today. Makes me wonder if tall men prefer taller women?? It does seem like it would be a little bit of a hassle for a 6'2 man to constantly have to stoop down to kiss a 5'5 SO.


I think it's funny that you mention this, because all the men in my family are tall. My dad, at 6' is the shortest in the family, and I have cousins who are in the 6'8" range or taller. 

AND THEY ARE ALL MARRIED TO SHORT WOMEN!!!

Our family photos are RIDICULOUS. All the women born into the family are taller than average by several inches at least, except my sister. All the women who married into the family are 5'4" or shorter. But the tall genes win out, because they still end up having children who grow into giants.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> I think it's funny that you mention this, because all the men in my family are tall. My dad, at 6' is the shortest in the family, and I have cousins who are in the 6'8" range or taller.
> 
> AND THEY ARE ALL MARRIED TO SHORT WOMEN!!!
> 
> Our family photos are RIDICULOUS. All the women born into the family are taller than average by several inches at least, except my sister. All the women who married into the family are 5'4" or shorter. But the tall genes win out, because they still end up having children who grow into giants.


Interesting! Maybe the guys in your family went for shorter women because going for taller women seemed too much like dating their sisters? I have heard people say before that they tended to go for the opposite coloring and other physical attributes than their siblings.


----------



## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Interesting! Maybe the guys in your family went for shorter women because going for taller women seemed too much like dating their sisters? I have heard people say before that they tended to go for the opposite coloring and other physical attributes than their siblings.


Maybe. My grandfather's generation (he was the oldest of 5 siblings, 4 boys and 1 girl). All the brothers were tall, at least 6', but the sister wasn't quite that tall. I'm going to say that she was at least 5'6", but I only knew here when she was much older and stooped a bit, so she might have been taller... but definitely not as tall as the women her brothers married. All 4 brothers married tall women, or at least taller than average. The tallest of my great-aunts was 5'10" or 5'11", and her husband was 6'1" or 6'2". Their offspring and descendants are the ones who are most freakishly tall.

But here's what I think: when you're really tall, you're taller than EVERYONE, so there isn't really much of a difference between one woman being 5'6" and the other being 5'0" (even if the woman who is 5'6" is considered above average), because compared to you, they're both SHORT. (Vice versa for the really short person when looking at two men of similarly disparate heights.) But here's the thing: the woman who is 5'6" may see the height difference as too big, because she notices it more... for the shorter woman, EVERYONE is taller that she is, so even if there is more than a 12" height difference, what does it matter? Because there will ALWAYS be a height difference, no matter who she is with. I feel like people on the extreme ends on the bell curve of height don't care as much about height difference as those who are close the the mean height in the bell curve.

It's just a theory. Some of the younger "kids" in the third generation are getting married now, and many of the guys are getting married to tall gals again, so my theory probably holds no water whatsoever.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating

I'm popping in here, with twitching whiskers, wondering if our very own Jessica Rabbit had been on that blind-date set up yet? Curious cats want to know..! (or maybe I missed the post?)


----------



## FeministInPink

heartsbeating said:


> I'm popping in here, with twitching whiskers, wondering if our very own Jessica Rabbit had been on that blind-date set up yet? Curious cats want to know..! (or maybe I missed the post?)


Nothing ever happened with the blind date set-up. I never heard anything from the guy I met in the bar, or from the friend he wanted to set me up with.

Trust me, if it ever happens, there will be an update here.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Not

Sky and I have pretty much started over right where we left off. I thought things might start off a little awkward at first but that hasn't been the case. I forgot how well we had learned each others schedules and habits. We haven't been able to get together during this week so far but the weekend is coming!

Just before I broke things off there had been lots of flirty talk and we're right back at it! There is NO way I'm waiting two months this time lol! He has assured me has no bedroom issues and is ready whenever I am, yay!

One thing that has kind of thrown me off is that he's invited me to Florida with him this winter. Reminds me of when B invited me so soon on his trip with him but I've known Sky previously sooooo...... I'm not superstitious but it sort of feels like a jinx in a way. That may just be me feeling cautious.

Something I've remembered that I liked about Sky is that he reminds me of retired bad boy lol! That bad boy spunk seems to be ingrained and just part of who he is but he's also an older bad boy so he has a sweetness about him too. I think he is going to be a lot of very mature fun lol!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> Sky and I have pretty much started over right where we left off. I thought things might start off a little awkward at first but that hasn't been the case. I forgot how well we had learned each others schedules and habits. We haven't been able to get together during this week so far but the weekend is coming!
> 
> Just before I broke things off there had been lots of flirty talk and we're right back at it! There is NO way I'm waiting two months this time lol! He has assured me has no bedroom issues and is ready whenever I am, yay!
> 
> One thing that has kind of thrown me off is that he's invited me to Florida with him this winter. Reminds me of when B invited me so soon on his trip with him but I've known Sky previously sooooo...... I'm not superstitious but it sort of feels like a jinx in a way. That may just be me feeling cautious.
> 
> Something I've remembered that I liked about Sky is that he reminds me of retired bad boy lol! That bad boy spunk seems to be ingrained and just part of who he is but he's also an older bad boy so he has a sweetness about him too. I think he is going to be a lot of very mature fun lol!


Can't wait for more updates!!

How long is the Florida thing? Like did he invite you for a week's vacay, or for a few months or what? Possibly a red flag but could also just show how into you he is and is sure about it.


----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> Can't wait for more updates!!
> 
> How long is the Florida thing? Like did he invite you for a week's vacay, or for a few months or what? Possibly a red flag but could also just show how into you he is and is sure about it.


It's just for a week so nothing crazy and he already had it planned with friends of his, I'll be tagging along. I'm comfortable with it but the fact that he asked me so soon made me a bit nervous.


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> I agree, though lots of people apparently do it.
> 
> I also don't put on my profile I'm looking for any specific physical attributes because I don't really see the point there, either. I just don't consider the ones who don't meet my parameters and they never know the difference because there was no match or correspondence.


Have to admit I am pretty shallow, still am.

Long legs are the sole trigger of my libido. I also dated taller and had no issues when some felt I was too short and they preferred a taller guy. Most didn't and I applaud honesty.

I reckon preferences are very important and everyone should be specific and even shallow, you want to make sure who you go for can satisfy your desires otherwise it's an inevitably painful waste of time for both parties.


----------



## Faithful Wife

RandomDude said:


> Have to admit I am pretty shallow, still am.
> 
> Long legs are the sole trigger of my libido. I also dated taller and had no issues when some felt I was too short and they preferred a taller guy. Most didn't and I applaud honesty.
> 
> I reckon preferences are very important and everyone should be specific and even shallow, you want to make sure who you go for can satisfy your desires otherwise it's an inevitably painful waste of time for both parties.


Agree! Just like you can't help it that long legs are your kryptonite, I can't help it that men who are 6'3" or taller is mine! And if that makes me shallow, oh well. Can't help it. I want to feel strong attraction to a guy physically.

I also don't want to be with anyone who doesn't feel I am their kryptonite. So I would want a man to next me immediately if he had a strong preference for a blonde or a tall chick or anything else that is important to him. I would not want to be settled for.

Things like hair color don't really make much difference to me but if they do to him, yes please next me.

Other things that make me emotionally and mentally attracted to a guy will come later, the first thing I will notice is the physical. So of course he may do it for me physically but still get nexted because I am not attracted to who he is as a person. I can't be into someone who has no integrity, for instance.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> It's just for a week so nothing crazy and he already had it planned with friends of his, I'll be tagging along. I'm comfortable with it but the fact that he asked me so soon made me a bit nervous.


Do you have to buy a plane ticket?


----------



## RandomDude

Faithful Wife said:


> Agree! Just like you can't help it that long legs are your kryptonite, I can't help it that men who are 6'3" or taller is mine! And if that makes me shallow, oh well. Can't help it. I want to feel strong attraction to a guy physically.
> 
> I also don't want to be with anyone who doesn't feel I am their kryptonite. So I would want a man to next me immediately if he had a strong preference for a blonde or a tall chick or anything else that is important to him. I would not want to be settled for.
> 
> Things like hair color don't really make much difference to me but if they do to him, yes please next me.
> 
> Other things that make me emotionally and mentally attracted to a guy will come later, the first thing I will notice is the physical. So of course he may do it for me physically but still get nexted because I am not attracted to who he is as a person. I can't be into someone who has no integrity, for instance.


Aye, never settle, nowadays when I hear people say stuff like "give that person a chance", "don't be so picky", I'm like facepalming because I've been there and it led to nothing but lots of wasted time, money, and heartaches for everyone involved. 

While long legs are my kryptonite for others it could be the bewbies, or the butt, or the petiteness, or the cuddliness, whatever, to settle is to not only rob yourself of what you truly want but also to rob someone else of it as well! Not just looks and personality but morality, lifestyle, interests, beliefs, compatibility requires a lot of factors but the stars DO align.

Quite frankly I don't know where this "settling" mentality comes from, and it's a flawed philosophy I reckon we should be actively discouraging, and thankfully many here are!


----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you have to buy a plane ticket?


That is something I’ll insist on when the time comes. He knows from the past I wouldn’t be comfortable otherwise.


----------



## Not

Totally bummed. I had to cancel my dinner/movie date with Sky tonight. I’ve been getting these episodes of severe upper stomach pain for years that come on randomly once in a blue moon. I can go any where from months to a couple of years without one. Two weeks ago it came back but so much worse than usual so I went to my doc. She thinks H. Pylori/Peptic Ulcer.

I had an attack last night and for the first time ever had vomiting. More attacks off and on today as well. I can’t eat so I’m absolutely starving! Horrible timing lol! We were going to have sushi lol! 

And I was all clean shaven, shower gelled, perfumed and ready to go! Ironic that I broke things off with him for having no time for me then I have to cancel on him. SMH lol!


----------



## Andy1001

Not said:


> Totally bummed. I had to cancel my dinner/movie date with Sky tonight. I’ve been getting these episodes of severe upper stomach pain for years that come on randomly once in a blue moon. I can go any where from months to a couple of years without one. Two weeks ago it came back but so much worse than usual so I went to my doc. She thinks H. Pylori/Peptic Ulcer.
> 
> I had an attack last night and for the first time ever had vomiting. More attacks off and on today as well. I can’t eat so I’m absolutely starving! Horrible timing lol! We were going to have sushi lol!
> 
> And I was all clean shaven, shower gelled, perfumed and ready to go! Ironic that I broke things off with him for having no time for me then I have to cancel on him. SMH lol!


Does SMH mean sex might help. :grin2:


----------



## Not

Andy1001 said:


> Does SMH mean sex might help. :grin2:


LOL!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> Totally bummed. I had to cancel my dinner/movie date with Sky tonight. I’ve been getting these episodes of severe upper stomach pain for years that come on randomly once in a blue moon. I can go any where from months to a couple of years without one. Two weeks ago it came back but so much worse than usual so I went to my doc. She thinks H. Pylori/Peptic Ulcer.
> 
> I had an attack last night and for the first time ever had vomiting. More attacks off and on today as well. I can’t eat so I’m absolutely starving! Horrible timing lol! We were going to have sushi lol!
> 
> And I was all clean shaven, shower gelled, perfumed and ready to go! Ironic that I broke things off with him for having no time for me then I have to cancel on him. SMH lol!


Total bummer!! Rain check I assume?


----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> Total bummer!! Rain check I assume?


Yes, rain check! He was really good about it. Hopefully I’ll be back up on my feet again very soon!


----------



## RandomDude

Been looking at diamonds lately, my girlfriend isn't materialistic but she has childhood dreams I would like to forfill, problem is also her mother, who is a diamond/jewellery enthusiast, who can spot the price and quality of diamonds from even a photo. We tried to trick her once... and she frightens me...

However, even with her childhood dream; "diamond the width of my finger"... thats 5-10 carat, D-F color, at least VS2 clarity (anything less I'm gonna be a cheapskate among her mother's side of the family)... min ~$320K!!! After she told me her childhood dream, she regreted it, and told me she wont accept anything more than $20K, but with $20K I can't get anything decent without some compromise on the color, clarity, or size.

I know I can get away with a cheap $2-5K ring because that's just her, she doesn't care, she'd rather we invest in properties, but as my first true love doesn't seem right to cheap out. Any hints on what to do?


----------



## wilson

RandomDude said:


> I know I can get away with a cheap $2-5K ring because that's just her, she doesn't care, she'd rather we invest in properties, but as my first true love doesn't seem right to cheap out. Any hints on what to do?


What do the married women in your social circle wear? I would go with something a little nicer than what is typical. The dream diamond sounds like it could be crazy big, which might make the other women think she's trying to be a showoff. If instead it's a nicer version of what most of the other women wear, they will more likely just view it with admiration.


----------



## RandomDude

wilson said:


> What do the married women in your social circle wear? I would go with something a little nicer than what is typical. The dream diamond sounds like it could be crazy big, which might make the other women think she's trying to be a showoff. If instead it's a nicer version of what most of the other women wear, they will more likely just view it with admiration.


I never even bothered to look to be honest! I see a ring and I'm like, oh ok, a ring. lol

Our inner circle don't care, except for her mum, but her social circle... quite materialistic actually, she's not influenced by them and in fact now that you mention it she will hate a crazy big ring as she's always lecturing them against it lol. Hell when she entered a store they even stereotyped her as materialistic and said she can't wear anything less than blah blah blah...

Maybe this design...








Might forfill the "width of the finger" stuff...

Is there a way to find cheaper ways to procure quality diamonds and rings? A friend suggested an independent actual jeweller who can import a diamond and make it etc - which is how he got a ring for his wife but still waiting for him to track him down after like 15 years lol

Personally I reckon big diamonds ugly on the hand but that's just me... *sigh*:


----------



## Cynthia

You could check estate sales. Diamonds don't wear out, so you could put an "old" diamond into a new setting.

Do you think you might be overly concerned about her mother? Who is the ring actually for?


----------



## Faithful Wife

@RandomDude Congrats! I assume this means you’ve proposed or that you two are getting ready to be engaged.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Stop giving a damn what her mother may think about the ring, it has nothing to do with her at all. Would love to see what you finally decide on!


----------



## Faithful Wife

So the boyfriend I had this summer who's family had a tragedy that basically broke us up...we have texted a little bit and are going to see each other Friday. The big issue was, his sister who has 2 small children had to have her leg amputated. This is a very long process for recovery and her health was still very much in danger even after the surgery. So their whole family had to rally and come up with a way for her to have round the clock care and for her 2 kids to have care since she cannot care for them much right now. My bf took on a lot of the care of the kids and ended up having them 4 days per week (staying with him also so he could take them to school).

He just let me know that his sister was approved for a round the clock care giver through insurance or state assistance. That means he and his family will have to do a whole lot less care giving, and my bf can go from 4 days a week to maybe 1 day a week, because now his other sisters who were doing more sister care and less child care can split up the child care with him.

He said he'd love to talk more and that he has missed me. He said his life has been really overloaded this whole time and he wanted to call me many times just to unload on a friend but he didn't because he knew that would be unfair to me. But now that his life may return to a better place soon, he wants to see me and talk.

I'm open to talking with him. To be honest I have to see him to know if it's too late for me or not. I really cared for him but the momentum is gone now, and we had only been dating about 6 weeks when we had to break up so I just dropped it and moved on at the time.

I've been on a dating break recently and then this popped up. For sure I will be happy to talk to him and see how it goes. I had told him when we broke up to let me know if things change for him and that I would be open to re-visiting us if things did. 

His TAM nickname was Viking, so I'll refer to him like that going forward (have to have some way of keeping them all straight, lol)


----------



## Not

Wow FP, that’s pretty cool. I hear you on the momentum thing though. As far as communication and getting along goes things have flowed fairly easily but I definitely don’t feel the same as I did months ago and I think it’s because we lost that momentum. I think with time I might be able to. I guess I need to make the decision as to whether or not to invest the time to find out. 

And now I’m sitting here thinking to myself why not go for it? What’s there to loose but time? I’ve got lots of it lol!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Random single person stuff....

Do you cook for yourself? I can cook pretty well but I don't really enjoy it. So I really almost never cook anything for myself beyond bacon and eggs. But I'm very fortunate and am surrounded by all these lovely ladies who love to feed me! I really appreciate good home cooking, and so my friends and family and co workers all know this. So they all go out of their way to make extra of whatever they are making for dinner and bring it to me if they are going to see me soon. I have two co workers who do this several times a week and another friend I see weekly. In the past week or two I have been brought ribs, pho, curry rice, thai noodles, tacos, navy bean soup, chili and cabbage salad...all home made with love and deliberately making extra for me. I'm so blessed! Also my family (some of us anyway) will be having thanksgiving at my mom's retirement community and they are doing the meal for everyone. Which is great, none of us will have to cook or clean up, but we also aren't allowed to take leftovers. So one of my ladies at work is literally roasting a turkey so she can bring me leftovers. She wasn't going to do turkey this year as she and her son are all she has to cook for and they sometimes pick some other kind of meat, but when she heard I won't have any home made leftovers she decided to do a turkey just so I could get some. She is a freaking EXCELLENT cook and I can't wait to eat her tgiving leftovers, yum!!


----------



## Cynthia

@RandomDude, Something I noticed about this ring situation is that you are giving your future mother in law a lot of control over your decision making on something that in the whole scheme of things is not that important. You seem more concerned about pleasing her than about pleasing your wife. At least that is how you appear. That would scare me if I were either you or your soon to be fiancee. 

What are you going to do when it comes to naming your children? She may have some strong opinions on that.


----------



## Blondilocks

@RandomDude, buy her a cheap ring with a humongous cheap stone (citrine or cz) and have her wear it 24/7 for a week to see how she likes it. Once she realizes just how impractical it is, she'll come around to a more sensible size. 

How is it her mom and her friends are so materialistic and she isn't? Birds of a feather and all that.

If you're buying 18kt, buy with six prongs for the diamond. The stone will be more secure.


----------



## RandomDude

Cynthia said:


> @RandomDude, Something I noticed about this ring situation is that you are giving your future mother in law a lot of control over your decision making on something that in the whole scheme of things is not that important. You seem more concerned about pleasing her than about pleasing your wife. At least that is how you appear. That would scare me if I were either you or your soon to be fiancee.
> What are you going to do when it comes to naming your children? She may have some strong opinions on that.





3Xnocharm said:


> Stop giving a damn what her mother may think about the ring, it has nothing to do with her at all. Would love to see what you finally decide on!


I reckon it's because in my last marriage we did it without the approval of ex's family, and it was constant drama. I want it to be right this time with my girlfriend's family's approval.

So far I managed to win the approval of her family as well as her grandfather and grandmother which I'm quite relieved about (her grandparents actually warned her mother against marrying her father - which their marriage is quite strained - yet they approved of me! so yay!)

I don't think my potential future mother in law will really disapprove if I got a $5-$10K ring, but she won't exactly approve heartily either.

I'm not looking to spend too big, but if there's a way I can get value for money with jewellery I'm all ears lol



Faithful Wife said:


> @RandomDude Congrats! I assume this means you’ve proposed or that you two are getting ready to be engaged.


Planning it, not proposed yet... need the ring first lol!



Blondilocks said:


> @RandomDude, buy her a cheap ring with a humongous cheap stone (citrine or cz) and have her wear it 24/7 for a week to see how she likes it. Once she realizes just how impractical it is, she'll come around to a more sensible size.


Well if I did that she'll just get mad that I did that to prove a point especially considering she explicitly told me not to get a ring that size already lol - but then at the same time she tells me when she was young she wanted a ring with a diamond the width of her finger, that's why I'm looking for one.

You know... because I like to impress 



> How is it her mom and her friends are so materialistic and she isn't? Birds of a feather and all that.


She's an oddity actually, she's never influenced by her surroundings. She lectures her parents and friends (and me) half the time, if not all the time. We argue alot as well but not in a bad way, we challenge each other.



> If you're buying 18kt, buy with six prongs for the diamond. The stone will be more secure.


Yes six prongs is essential, her promise ring is of that design as well. She loves it.


----------



## Affaircare

@RandomDude, 

I have a couple thoughts:

1) Tension setting or bezel setting. I personally have a pretty small hand, and I can not stand large stones set with prongs. They are clunky, they roll around, they get stuck on stuff...it's awful. But I do like tension settings and bezel setting, because there's no prongs, and the rings look bigger and more solid without necessarily having a huge "stone. 

Here is a tension setting example * Here is a bezel setting example

This leads me to my next point:

2) 3 smaller stones rather than one big one. Nowadays, it is medium popular to have three stones for the past, present, and future...rather than one big one. So you could do something like this: Modern Leaf Bypass Ring

3) Other stones/unique ring. What EB and I did for our rings is that we had already been married before and didn't really want to spend on a ring what we could use for a cool honeymoon trip! LOL Also, I hate diamonds. So we made went to StagHead Designs and made custom rings with rose gold and blue opal. I ADORE opal and blue opal looked girly enough for me and manly enough for him. In addition, we had neither had ROSE gold for a ring before--yellow gold and white gold were not exciting, and we wanted something nicer than silver. So we made something completely CUSTOM, completely US...and we're happy. Does she like some other center stone? Like...me I have always loved opal and moonstone...both would have been a great ring for me, and here's an idea of a Bezel Set Pear Shaped Opal Ring would look like.


----------



## Andy1001

@RandomDude if you really need an expensive engagement ring then I have a solution. 
There’s a lake near Weston in Massachusetts. The first engagement ring that I bought for my wife is in that lake.


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> @RandomDude if you really need an expensive engagement ring then I have a solution.
> There’s a lake near Weston in Massachusetts. The first engagement ring that I bought for my wife is in that lake.


:lol:


----------



## Elizabeth001

Andy1001 said:


> @RandomDude if you really need an expensive engagement ring then I have a solution.
> 
> There’s a lake near Weston in Massachusetts. The first engagement ring that I bought for my wife is in that lake.




There’s a gold wedding band somewhere on the 9th tee at a golf course in Williamsburg too! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Hopeful Cynic

RandomDude said:


> I don't think my potential future mother in law will really disapprove if I got a $5-$10K ring, but she won't exactly approve heartily either.
> 
> I'm not looking to spend too big, but if there's a way I can get value for money with jewellery I'm all ears lol


It sounds like size and cost are going to end up being wrong no matter what you pick.

So you have to go with STORY.

Take a trip with her to a place where diamonds come from, and get one from the source.

Visit auction houses and estate sales, and stumble across a treasure.

Take up treasure diving as a hobby, clean up local rivers and lakes, and see what you can find.

Go metal detecting on the beach.

Whichever method you choose, propose on the spot as though you were overcome with emotion and hadn't planned this at all.


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## Robbie1234

Andy1001 said:


> @RandomDude if you really need an expensive engagement ring then I have a solution.
> There’s a lake near Weston in Massachusetts. The first engagement ring that I bought for my wife is in that lake.


I remember you telling me how much that ring cost you. 
Could you be a bit more specific about what lake it's in.
Asking for a friend.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Went roller skating with a girlfriend last night. It was soooo fun! I can't really skate well but I can stay up and it is fun exercise. She on the other hand is an excellent skater, used to be on a roller derby team. It was adult skate night so no kids and they played modern music. The place was packed which we did not expect! There were all of these really good skaters there and it is so fun to watch them. A couple of totally hot guys, too! There is something really sexy about seeing a guy skate well. It is so athletic and impressive. It makes me think hey if he can move like that he's got moves in the bedroom too, ha!

I had texted with my Viking about my plans and he said he was jealous and missed skating. Turns out he played hockey which I didn't know before. So we said we would go sometime, which I can't wait to see his sexy ass skating like that. Swoon!


----------



## Not

This might be long. I’ve never told this part of my story and feel the need to “get it out”.

So...my sexual history for the last 27 years has been quite pathetic, sad actually! I was married to someone who had PE for the duration of our 25 year marriage. Sex would last, at a max, roughly 10-15 seconds and sometimes be over before that. On bad days all it took was simply entering me and it was over. He would’ve had sex every single day a few times a day if he’d had his way, and it was like that in the beginning, but after so many years of never receiving any pleasure on my side I gave up. By year 15 sex was just a couple of times a year then by year 17 sex was completely absent. I spent years sexually frustrated but hung in there for the sake of the family unit. I filed for divorce just under two years ago.

We did talk about it here and there over the years but his idea of solving the problem was to do things like buy a penis pump to try to make himself larger, like that would give me more pleasure for 10 seconds. His size was actually very good, above average, but he wouldn’t listen when I told him size wasn’t the issue. He also tried Viagra a few times and did so much better with that but wouldn’t go in and get a prescription for himself. A friend of his gave him the few Viagra. I never understood that.

Then I met B online after my divorce. I had told him my history before we slept together and must’ve made him nervous about his ability to perform because he saw his doctor and got a prescription for Cialis. I have never in my life put a man down for lack of endowment and never plan on it because smaller men can still give a woman pleasure but the situation with B falls outside the norm. He was what I can only describe as possibly deformed. The curvature and small size created instant issues and his reliance on the Cialis did as well. Sex was a total disaster. He did have some good days but mostly it was a struggle to get things to work down there and combined with his low sex drive I was sexually frustrated within weeks. 

I feel for him. He’s only 43 and he’s going to have a lot of trouble finding someone long term who’s willing to live with that in the bedroom. He does makes up for it in the romance department, he’s so seductive outside the bedroom. He would create these evenings with just the two of us with just the right music and atmosphere and it would seduce any woman in her right mind but when things got moved to the bedroom everything fell apart. It was those times of tenderness and connection outside the bedroom that kept me from breaking things off for almost three months. If he had no issues down under he’d be every woman’s dream come true, seriously. 

I fully believe he tries so hard with the romance part because he’s well aware of the issues he has, it was that romantic side of him that had me falling for him so hard. I still to this day miss that. He did give of himself 110%. And I do wonder if all of this played a role in how he turned so nasty toward me after I broke things off. He kept saying he had given me all of himself and that I had crushed him. I honestly felt a lot of guilt about that and fell into a depression because of it. I felt like I had ruined his chance of having something very good with someone he tried so hard to win over. I don’t want to experience that ever again, it was awful.

So, after B I was convinced that I had done *something* in a previous life that was dooming me to a sexually frustrating life forever lol! Kidding but kinda sorta not lol! My sister was stunned after I told her the details about B, like what are the chances?! Two men in a row who both have serious issues? Not typical at all and how did I manage to find probably the one guy on POF who had such issues? Karma, has to be lol! 

With all of that said.....I’m very happy to announce I’ve broken my 27 year long curse lol! Sky is 49 and performed like someone twenty years younger, yay! I asked him afterward if that was “all him” or if he had used assistance in pill form lol! That made his night! Nope, no assistance! We both happily wore each out! And man, we’re both really out of shape lol! For the first time in years I was walking funny the day after and he slept like a rock the night of. He has issues with sleep so he was soooo happy to get a good nights sleep lol! 

I still can’t believe it. I found someone I’m sexually compatible with. Now to see how everything else goes! In the meantime, I’m going to be a busy girl lol!


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## 3Xnocharm

Not, I am so happy for you! You were cheated for so many years, how awesome you finally found something that rocks your world!

After five years of no sex, I am having doubts myself if it’s ever going to happen for me again. I barely even think about it any more at this point. I feel completely dysfunctional. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia

3Xnocharm said:


> After five years of no sex, I am having doubts myself if it’s ever going to happen for me again. I barely even think about it any more at this point. I feel completely dysfunctional.


Approaching 2 years... I don't think about it anymore... well, with my skin condition I can completely forget about it now! Although it's probably better than a bendy little penis... :laugh:


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## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> Not, I am so happy for you! You were cheated for so many years, how awesome you finally found something that rocks your world!
> 
> After five years of no sex, I am having doubts myself if it’s ever going to happen for me again. I barely even think about it any more at this point. I feel completely dysfunctional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks 3x’s! I definitely feel like I’ve earned this lol! I felt dysfunctional too but more in the sense of maybe because of my history I was going to have a hard time finding a normal/good sex life because I didn’t really know what that was like anymore and I would end up accepting a poor sex life with someone just so I can have sex at all. I almost did just that with B because he treated me so much better than exH did. 

I hope you don’t give up 3x’s. I encourage you to do something/anything to get that sexual energy flowing. There are lots of assistive devices out there to help with that! I did just that and my mood/attitude/energy improved so much! I began to feel positive/gung ho that finding someone could happen. I feel that helping myself in that way was a definite positive step. Attitude is everything!


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## Faithful Wife

@Not That’s an incredible awesome ending to that sad story!! I’m super happy for you. I’ve known a couple other women with similar stories in that they were with someone for a long time with no sex or horrible sex, then ended up with another dud or two, and then finally found someone who rocked their world. They all basically turned into different people after that! Happier, more optimistic, bolder, and physically healthier, too. Thanks for sharing!


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## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> @Not That’s an incredible awesome ending to that sad story!! I’m super happy for you. I’ve known a couple other women with similar stories in that they were with someone for a long time with no sex or horrible sex, then ended up with another dud or two, and then finally found someone who rocked their world. They all basically turned into different people after that! Happier, more optimistic, bolder, and physically healthier, too. Thanks for sharing!



I’m happy too lol! Even if things don’t work out in other areas at least I can say I broke the evil spell lol!

I can see how something like this would lead to sort of a blossoming, or opening, for people. When an important part of life gets shut down like that it affects more than just sex life itself. I certainly feel a bit more confident and a teeny bit sexier. Now if I can just get over being bashful and be a little more in charge I’d be super happy!


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## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> I’m happy too lol! Even if things don’t work out in other areas at least I can say I broke the evil spell lol!
> 
> I can see how something like this would lead to sort of a blossoming, or opening, for people. When an important part of life gets shut down like that it affects more than just sex life itself. I certainly feel a bit more confident and a teeny bit sexier. Now if I can just get over being bashful and be a little more in charge I’d be super happy!


Things are still new, you will keep expanding and have more sexual confidence the more great sex you have. Best kind of practice!


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## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> Things are still new, you will keep expanding and have more sexual confidence the more great sex you have. Best kind of practice!


That’s what Sky said, practice practice practice! It had been three years for him so he’s happy to oblige lol!


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## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> That’s what Sky said, practice practice practice! It had been three years for him so he’s happy to oblige lol!


Great sex includes the dynamic of two people who are totally into each other. And you are also exploring each other and finding the most minute action of the other to be enticing and sexy. You gaze at each other’s bodies in wonderment.

If just allow each other to express how amazing everything feels to them, and you each allow yourselves to understand that you are an incredible piece of art (just like they are to you), your sexual confidence soars.


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## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> Great sex includes the dynamic of two people who are totally into each other. And you are also exploring each other and finding the most minute action of the other to be enticing and sexy. You gaze at each other’s bodies in wonderment.
> 
> If just allow each other to express how amazing everything feels to them, and you each allow yourselves to understand that you are an incredible piece of art (just like they are to you), your sexual confidence soars.


I don’t know that we’re going to make it to that point. It would be very nice if we did. Sky has a great personality but I’m just not as into him as I was before but I’m giving it a chance. Also, I’ve got a small hurdle I’m trying to make it over with him that’s not due to anything he’s done. I keep comparing his body to B’s and that’s not working out to well for me but I keep telling myself to give it more time. So the physical attraction isn’t quite where I’d like it to be because B was so damn hot. The kind of hot that ruins it for other men. I’m determined to try and move past that but I don’t know if I’ll be successful.


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## 3Xnocharm

Not said:


> I don’t know that we’re going to make it to that point. It would be very nice if we did. Sky has a great personality but I’m just not as into him as I was before but I’m giving it a chance. Also, I’ve got a small hurdle I’m trying to make it over with him that’s not due to anything he’s done. I keep comparing his body to B’s and that’s not working out to well for me but I keep telling myself to give it more time. So the physical attraction isn’t quite where I’d like it to be because B was so damn hot. The kind of hot that ruins it for other men. I’m determined to try and move past that but I don’t know if I’ll be successful.



Eh, just remind yourself of the teeny peeny that was attached to that bod!  Also the more chemistry you have with someone, the more attraction you feel, seems to just happen naturally. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

Not said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great sex includes the dynamic of two people who are totally into each other. And you are also exploring each other and finding the most minute action of the other to be enticing and sexy. You gaze at each other’s bodies in wonderment.
> 
> If just allow each other to express how amazing everything feels to them, and you each allow yourselves to understand that you are an incredible piece of art (just like they are to you), your sexual confidence soars.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t know that we’re going to make it to that point. It would be very nice if we did. Sky has a great personality but I’m just not as into him as I was before but I’m giving it a chance. Also, I’ve got a small hurdle I’m trying to make it over with him that’s not due to anything he’s done. I keep comparing his body to B’s and that’s not working out to well for me but I keep telling myself to give it more time. So the physical attraction isn’t quite where I’d like it to be because B was so damn hot. The kind of hot that ruins it for other men. I’m determined to try and move past that but I don’t know if I’ll be successful.
Click to expand...

I get that. Time will tell!


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## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> Eh, just remind yourself of the teeny peeny that was attached to that bod!  Also the more chemistry you have with someone, the more attraction you feel, seems to just happen naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s what I’m hoping for! I’ll let nature take it’s course and see where it takes us.


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## notmyjamie

Andy1001 said:


> @RandomDude if you really need an expensive engagement ring then I have a solution.
> There’s a lake near Weston in Massachusetts. The first engagement ring that I bought for my wife is in that lake.


Hmmm...I don't live too far from there...

*makes a mental note to try out the swimming in Weston, MA this summer*

:grin2:


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## notmyjamie

Not said:


> I don’t know that we’re going to make it to that point. It would be very nice if we did. Sky has a great personality but I’m just not as into him as I was before but I’m giving it a chance. Also, I’ve got a small hurdle I’m trying to make it over with him that’s not due to anything he’s done. I keep comparing his body to B’s and that’s not working out to well for me but I keep telling myself to give it more time. So the physical attraction isn’t quite where I’d like it to be because B was so damn hot. The kind of hot that ruins it for other men. I’m determined to try and move past that but I don’t know if I’ll be successful.


I would think his ability to rock your world in bed would make him infinitely more hot than anyone else. My guy is handsome but he is sporting some extra weight (so am I so I'm not complaining at all) and he is amazing. The more time I spend the more attracted I became. I had gone a long time without any really good sex and now, it's like a whole new world has opened up for me. That alone has made me way more attracted to him.

Unless there is something he's doing outside the bedroom that is a huge turn off I say give it more time.


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## Faithful Wife

notmyjamie said:


> Not said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t know that we’re going to make it to that point. It would be very nice if we did. Sky has a great personality but I’m just not as into him as I was before but I’m giving it a chance. Also, I’ve got a small hurdle I’m trying to make it over with him that’s not due to anything he’s done. I keep comparing his body to B’s and that’s not working out to well for me but I keep telling myself to give it more time. So the physical attraction isn’t quite where I’d like it to be because B was so damn hot. The kind of hot that ruins it for other men. I’m determined to try and move past that but I don’t know if I’ll be successful.
> 
> 
> 
> I would think his ability to rock your world in bed would make him infinitely more hot than anyone else. My guy is handsome but he is sporting some extra weight (so am I so I'm not complaining at all) and he is amazing. The more time I spend the more attracted I became. I had gone a long time without any really good sex and now, it's like a whole new world has opened up for me. That alone has made me way more attracted to him.
> 
> Unless there is something he's doing outside the bedroom that is a huge turn off I say give it more time.
Click to expand...

I agree, great sex makes me see a guy differently. I’m always much more physically attracted to a guy after great sex. Sometimes it takes a little while though. Especially if I had a recent ex with a banging body.

My rebound boyfriend after my break up with love of my life exh, he had a very different type of body than my exh. My exh is tall and muscular but lean. My rebound was tall and muscular but thick, and when we met he was also carrying 15 extra pounds or so. At first I had a little trouble looking past his imperfections as I was so used to admiring my exh.

I remember once rebound and I were cooking together in the summertime, and he was stark naked in the kitchen preparing food.

A few times I was looking at him and thinking like wow, he is not entirely attractive to me right now but I sure admire his confidence. Plus he was being silly and we were having so much fun.

After a few weeks of awesome sex with him, I began seeing him in my mind cooking naked, and suddenly found myself greatly attracted to that memory. After that I always saw him as ultra hot. And eventually I did not want anything else. My exh’s body no longer seemed like the ultimate and now my rebound guys bod was all I thought about.

After a few months I did also convince my rebound to lose a few pounds, which he knew he needed to do anyway. He did it very easily (he was mostly muscle anyway so all he had to do was not over eat and he quickly lost at least 10 pounds). Then he ended up being just amazing in my eyes and his thickness (again, mostly muscle) became so attractive to me that later when I would see my exh, he seemed too thin to me!!

It’s interesting how this works. It takes a little time and a lot of great sex, but when you get there, you’ll be surprised how different your new/old guy can appear to you @Not.

I’ve since that time been with some men who literally could be on covers of magazines, in porn, or the lead in movies normally played by The Rock. I’ve learned to appreciate the differences. Super hot guys are always incredible to look at. But less perfect guys can be just as hot (or more) in my eyes if they rock my world.


----------



## Faithful Wife

So tonight I’m seeing my Viking ex boyfriend. He has been texting me all week and saying sweet things. That he missed me and has been thinking a lot about me and that he wants to tell me things he has realized since we split.

We split because of his family situation, but also at the end he was just in a really weird place and I know he felt bad that he did not treat me with as much care as he should have.

I did not see it that way because I knew his whole life had just turned upside down. When we split there were no hard feelings, I just knew he did not have the extra energy for a girlfriend at that time. So I forgave him even without him asking for it for not being the best boyfriend at the end.

But I guess for him, he has been really thinking about that and has missed me this whole time and has done some self reflection that he wants to share with me. He says that the way I cared for him and treated him has made him realize he wants to be with someone who has that ability and he wants to be a person like that himself.

So I’m pretty sure the talk tonight will be him also asking me to get back together with him and that he wants to be deeper into this with me than we were before even.

I am a little nervous because I basically just let go and moved on when we broke up, and have not explored my feelings for him since then. This week texting each other has felt really nice and I’m looking forward to seeing him. But it’s more like a first date all over again for me so that means I’m not feeling quite the way he is (he seems ready to jump back in). I like that he is ready to tell me things and pursue me like that because if he wasn’t this would probably go flat. Because I’m not into chasing guys or trying to make something happen. If it was up to me to drive this, I would probably just leave it in neutral. 

He seems ready to put it in gear and drive.

So I’m nervous but also excited to see where this ride goes.

I might even get laid tonight. Yay!! But it’s an unknown for the moment because I am not sure how I feel until I see him and hear him out.


----------



## Not

notmyjamie said:


> I would think his ability to rock your world in bed would make him infinitely more hot than anyone else. My guy is handsome but he is sporting some extra weight (so am I so I'm not complaining at all) and he is amazing. The more time I spend the more attracted I became. I had gone a long time without any really good sex and now, it's like a whole new world has opened up for me. That alone has made me way more attracted to him.
> 
> Unless there is something he's doing outside the bedroom that is a huge turn off I say give it more time.


That’s exactly what I’m hoping for. 

I’m in decent shape but definitely have problem areas, like my “never gonna make it back to pre-pregnancy tummy”! So I definitely feel more comfortable around Sky as far as my body goes and I like that a lot. He’s not in the best shape so definitely isn’t going to be judging me. I’m trying to not compare them but it seems my mind is determined lol! I keep thinking I wish I could put Sky’s mind and peen on B’s body! Build a Bae lol! 

Sky and I have slept together just once so I’m definitely willing to give this more time and I want to put effort into making that part of our relationship as great as possible. I want to know just how good it can get.


----------



## Not

Faithful Wife said:


> I agree, great sex makes me see a guy differently. I’m always much more physically attracted to a guy after great sex. Sometimes it takes a little while though. Especially if I had a recent ex with a banging body.
> 
> My rebound boyfriend after my break up with love of my life exh, he had a very different type of body than my exh. My exh is tall and muscular but lean. My rebound was tall and muscular but thick, and when we met he was also carrying 15 extra pounds or so. At first I had a little trouble looking past his imperfections as I was so used to admiring my exh.
> 
> I remember once rebound and I were cooking together in the summertime, and he was stark naked in the kitchen preparing food.
> 
> A few times I was looking at him and thinking like wow, he is not entirely attractive to me right now but I sure admire his confidence. Plus he was being silly and we were having so much fun.
> 
> After a few weeks of awesome sex with him, I began seeing him in my mind cooking naked, and suddenly found myself greatly attracted to that memory. After that I always saw him as ultra hot. And eventually I did not want anything else. My exh’s body no longer seemed like the ultimate and now my rebound guys bod was all I thought about.
> 
> After a few months I did also convince my rebound to lose a few pounds, which he knew he needed to do anyway. He did it very easily (he was mostly muscle anyway so all he had to do was not over eat and he quickly lost at least 10 pounds). Then he ended up being just amazing in my eyes and his thickness (again, mostly muscle) became so attractive to me that later when I would see my exh, he seemed too thin to me!!
> 
> It’s interesting how this works. It takes a little time and a lot of great sex, but when you get there, you’ll be surprised how different your new/old guy can appear to you @Not.
> 
> I’ve since that time been with some men who literally could be on covers of magazines, in porn, or the lead in movies normally played by The Rock. I’ve learned to appreciate the differences. Super hot guys are always incredible to look at. But less perfect guys can be just as hot (or more) in my eyes if they rock my world.


Funny how our minds work. I used to work with a college aged kid about 10 years ago who just wasn’t a very cute kid. Big ears, skin problems and tall and awkward looking. We both worked in the same department and spent a lot of time working on the same projects so we talked a lot over about a three-year period. By the time I left for another job my view of his physical appearance had completely changed because he came off as so intelligent and mature for his age that it actually made him quite attractive in a way.

I need to get reacquainted with Sky and try to rediscover what had me so attracted to him 6 months ago. I am experiencing the same thing you are experiencing with Viking. After I broke things off with Sky I met B a week and a half later then never gave Sky much thought. So I detached and have to restart from square one. Which I think is a good thing at this point because I’ve actually changed quite a bit since I last knew him. I think I’m better equipped to make better/smarter decisions in regards to men and relationships now than I was when I first met him.


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## Elizabeth001

I dunno girls. Enjoy it for what it is but don’t get hung up on thinking long term. If it was all that and a bag of chips, you would have made it work out the first time, no matter the obstacle. Just one old ladies perspective 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife

Elizabeth001 said:


> I dunno girls. Enjoy it for what it is but don’t get hung up on thinking long term. If it was all that and a bag of chips, you would have made it work out the first time, no matter the obstacle. Just one old ladies perspective <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I know mine is not a long term thing, for my own reasons. But short term for me could be a year or two, and I’m down for that.


----------



## Not

Elizabeth001 said:


> I dunno girls. Enjoy it for what it is but don’t get hung up on thinking long term. If it was all that and a bag of chips, you would have made it work out the first time, no matter the obstacle. Just one old ladies perspective
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I don’t even know if we’ll make it to next week at this point lol!


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## AVR1962

I agree with all the resent posts. The chemistry between two people speaks volumes. If you are having the best sex of your life and you think about each other thru the day that is special. The way I see it from my own experiences is those first 6 months are hormones in high drive. Once you get past the hormonal stage then comes in reality, that's what we term as taking off the rose colored glasses. I have been with my "tiger" now for 5 months and we are intense. Christmas time will bring us to the 6 month mark and I am preparing myself for the possibilities of his emotional withdrawal. For now though I am enjoying it thoroughly.


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## Not

I was sitting here tonight doing some thinking when I realized it’s been two years since I dropped the bomb on my miserable marriage. I remember wondering what it would be like when I got to this point lol! Holy cow I’m here lol! Where I wanted to be! I sometimes still can’t believe I did it.

I’m the same person but totally not. I’m better, so much better. My sons deceased girlfriend had a favorite saying, “You do you baby”. I feel like that. I’m doing me without all that gunk and depression smothering me. I’m just me. Feels so good! Her death was what energized me to finally leave. Thank you A. 

Gratitude.


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## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> I was sitting here tonight doing some thinking when I realized it’s been two years since I dropped the bomb on my miserable marriage. I remember wondering what it would be like when I got to this point lol! Holy cow I’m here lol! Where I wanted to be! I sometimes still can’t believe I did it.
> 
> I’m the same person but totally not. I’m better, so much better. My sons deceased girlfriend had a favorite saying, “You do you baby”. I feel like that. I’m doing me without all that gunk and depression smothering me. I’m just me. Feels so good! Her death was what energized me to finally leave. Thank you A.
> 
> Gratitude.




x2!


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## FeministInPink

Not said:


> I was sitting here tonight doing some thinking when I realized it’s been two years since I dropped the bomb on my miserable marriage. I remember wondering what it would be like when I got to this point lol! Holy cow I’m here lol! Where I wanted to be! I sometimes still can’t believe I did it.
> 
> I’m the same person but totally not. I’m better, so much better. My sons deceased girlfriend had a favorite saying, “You do you baby”. I feel like that. I’m doing me without all that gunk and depression smothering me. I’m just me. Feels so good! Her death was what energized me to finally leave. Thank you A.
> 
> Gratitude.


Isn't that the best feeling??? Knowing you've come so far, and that you're so much better now than you ever thought you could be... it makes the struggle and the pain of the divorce worth it.

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## fto0293

Have nothing at the moment to add but just wanted to express my appreciation for this thread since I guess I am single and am on TAM too.


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## SunCMars

It just seems so cruel.....

Relationships all boil down to blood flow.

To both heads.


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## SunCMars

I suspect...

Some many older single men, say.. past 50; let themselves go to seed, for a reason.

They do not shave.
They do not bathe often enough.
They let their hair grow wild and get oily.

Some let their waistlines get monstrous, some let their waistlines get withered, with the waist smaller than those small hips.

They let themselves go for a reason.

No women will bother them, bother with them. 

They are left alone with their sloven appearances.

Left alone with their manhood untested. 

With their unknown, not known, not diagnosed, undiscovered, their shameful ED.

The blood flow problem bleeds, bloody sad men.

A failing woman can add coconut oil to make herself a viable partner, that failing man views himself having a soft balloon for a head.

They just give up and sag away.


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## In Absentia

Faithful Wife said:


> I might even get laid tonight.



Did you get laid at the end? :laugh:


----------



## Blondilocks

Elizabeth001 said:


> x2!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I wish I knew what the little emoji is - it looks like a KitchenAid mixer on my computer.


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## Lila

SunCMars said:


> I suspect...
> 
> Some many older single men, say.. past 50; let themselves go to seed, for a reason.
> 
> They do not shave.
> They do not bathe often enough.
> They let their hair grow wild and get oily.
> 
> Some let their waistlines get monstrous, some let their waistlines get withered, with the waist smaller than those small hips.
> 
> They let themselves go for a reason.
> 
> No women will bother them, bother with them.
> 
> They are left alone with their sloven appearances.
> 
> Left alone with their manhood untested.
> 
> With their unknown, not known, not diagnosed, undiscovered, their shameful ED.
> 
> The blood flow problem bleeds, bloody sad men.
> 
> A failing woman can add coconut oil to make herself a viable partner, that failing man views himself having a soft balloon for a head.
> 
> They just give up and sag away.


That's what Viagra, Levitra, and Cialis is for. Why would someone let themselves go over something that can be fixed with a pill?


----------



## Not

SunCMars said:


> I suspect...
> 
> Some many older single men, say.. past 50; let themselves go to seed, for a reason.
> 
> They do not shave.
> They do not bathe often enough.
> They let their hair grow wild and get oily.
> 
> Some let their waistlines get monstrous, some let their waistlines get withered, with the waist smaller than those small hips.
> 
> They let themselves go for a reason.
> 
> No women will bother them, bother with them.
> 
> They are left alone with their sloven appearances.
> 
> Left alone with their manhood untested.
> 
> With their unknown, not known, not diagnosed, undiscovered, their shameful ED.
> 
> The blood flow problem bleeds, bloody sad men.
> 
> A failing woman can add coconut oil to make herself a viable partner, that failing man views himself having a soft balloon for a head.
> 
> They just give up and sag away.


It is sad and that’s why I would never say the things I said here to B. I’m not into tearing men down, especially in that way. I feel for him and what he’s facing.


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## SunCMars

Lila said:


> That's what Viagra, Levitra, and Cialis is for. Why would someone let themselves go over something that can be fixed with a pill?


I agree....

The pills simply do not work with every man. They don't.

For some, the side effects are not worth the ten minutes of iffy-jiffy pleasure.

Or, so it seems.

'Most' of these issues have a fix, a fix. 

Maybe a surgical one. 
Very expensive, and not covered by insurance.

Hmm..

Both the man and his lover must agree to the soft cure.
Much that is ad-hyped is just another disappointment waiting to happen.

Sometimes, it is only anger, even rage, that keeps such men from giving up and taking of their own lives.


----------



## Lila

SunCMars said:


> I agree....
> 
> The pills simply do not work with every man. They don't.
> 
> For some, the side effects are not worth the ten minutes of iffy-jiffy pleasure.
> 
> Or, so it seems.
> 
> 'Most' of these issues have a fix, a fix.
> 
> Maybe a surgical one.
> Very expensive, and not covered by insurance.
> 
> Hmm..
> 
> Both the man and his lover must agree to the soft cure.
> Much that is ad-hyped is just another disappointment waiting to happen.
> 
> *Sometimes, it is only anger, even rage, that keeps such men from giving up and taking of their own lives.*


That's really sad especially since there are lots of 50 something women who for one reason or another have no need or desire for sex. They would be overjoyed to find a good man to share companionship, emotional support, and affection.


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## SunCMars

Lila said:


> That's really sad especially since there are lots of 50 something women who for one reason or another have no need or desire for sex. They would be overjoyed to find a good man to share companionship, emotional support, and affection.


One would think, one would think and be wrong.

The lady makes this choice by choosing this celibacy.

The man has no choice. Ah, feels he has....none. No choice.

When he views her breasts and her hips, her soft bottom, he cries out in vain.
Curses his situation.

He remembers what he had at one time, had of many times.

He does, some do.
Many do.

Many men take to drink and become these/those obnoxious bores.


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## AVR1962

In response to the poem above and the last reply from SunCMars......I was in a marriage for 24 years. I was very attracted to be ex when we were first dating and for years afterwards. He was military and had to keep himself at a certain weight, he did his gym time. Life was certainly not perfect for us, we were a stepfamily and had 4 children from our previous marriages that we each had custody of and we had one of our own so we were a very busy household and there is alot in a stepfamily that can be very tricky to handle. There were a few things that were flags that I was too young to see at the time we started dating.....his resistance to talk to his ex at all about any issue, his drinking habits, the anger and resentment he held for certain people. I did see his porn use as a problem and we spoke about it. I also could see his lack of involvement with his children and in general everyone in his life which we also talked about. I would later learn that he had not been truthful as to the split of his marriage and I would learn that he had created rendezvous with women while married. All of these things became problems in our marriage. We talked, had counseling, nothing was able to change. He was a drunken passive-aggressive who had to have control covertly. 

Once he retired from the military he truly let himself go, gained a bunch of weight. He seemed happy just to be in his own world, he blocked everyone out....everyone with the exception of his drinking buddies. The whole marriage until I got myself into counseling was spent with me chasing him, me seeking him, me going to him which worked well with his passive personality. He did not try to create time for us, he did not pursue me, he was not one to show affection or express any kind of feelings towards me. When I finally learned about passive-aggressive behavior I stepped away from what I had been doing to initiate anything between us, basically I stopped playing the game and when I did a slow burning rage came out of him and of course I was all at fault. It was a combination of everything that happened that I lost interest, respect, and love for my husband. Walking away at the end was a relief and I have had no regrets. I stayed too long and I did so for my kids. I did not want to split up my family. 

It has been over 3 years now since I left and my adult children are starting to accept. They probably will never fully understand what happened between their dad/stepdad and I. The girls all favor him like I did him wrong but I can only imagine what they have been told by his family too.

So when I read things like above, I know that my experience does not apply to everyone as each couple's situation is unique but there are women who were the seekers, like myself, and we were the ones going without. Not all women choose celibacy which I understand men have a hard time accepting when they heard that. Taking to drinking is a choice that each person makes for themself. You can easily choose another route like becoming healthier and making the choice not to drink and start going to the gym, among many. Since my divorce I have chose to be with men who do not drink and who are active. I am 56 and the man I am seeing is 54....he is active, does not drink, he is far from boring....wide variety of interests which we have enjoyed exploring together. Couples get into ruts and the only way to dig out of these ruts is to change habits that have formed, renew life together.

Now, seeing the man I have labeled as my "tiger" I can say he has sought me out and I am loving the attention. I do give back and I can still initiate but I have made sure he is the one chasing.


----------



## FeministInPink

@AVR1962 My XH was a lot like yours after your XH left the army--he drank way too much, let himself go, and wouldn't touch me or pay any attention to me at all. I was doing all the chasing. It was heartbreaking and horrible... I had to do so much work to repair the damage he did to me.

The only guy I've been with seriously since my divorce had a substance abuse issue with alcohol and weed, and this too played a huge part in his emotional and physical shortcomings.

This has brought me to the decision that I will not get involved with anyone who uses any substance more than I do, which is to say almost never, 1-2x a month at most. I don't need that crap in my life. I've also spent enough time in bars (XH was a bar manager, so I used to hang out there a lot even though I didn't really drink; now I go to bars for the karaoke, even though I don't really drink) to come to the conclusion that people who drink a lot are generally boring and hold very little appeal for me. Perhaps this is why they drink a lot... or they don't go and do interesting things because that would require them to go to places and do things without alcohol.

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## AVR1962

FeministInPink said:


> @AVR1962 My XH was a lot like yours after your XH left the army--he drank way too much, let himself go, and wouldn't touch me or pay any attention to me at all. I was doing all the chasing. It was heartbreaking and horrible... I had to do so much work to repair the damage he did to me.
> 
> The only guy I've been with seriously since my divorce had a substance abuse issue with alcohol and weed, and this too played a huge part in his emotional and physical shortcomings.
> 
> This has brought me to the decision that I will not get involved with anyone who uses any substance more than I do, which is to say almost never, 1-2x a month at most. I don't need that crap in my life. I've also spent enough time in bars (XH was a bar manager, so I used to hang out there a lot even though I didn't really drink; now I go to bars for the karaoke, even though I don't really drink) to come to the conclusion that people who drink a lot are generally boring and hold very little appeal for me. Perhaps this is why they drink a lot... or they don't go and do interesting things because that would require them to go to places and do things without alcohol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Good for you! It feels good to be with someone who feels life, who embraces life, deals with life. Drinking in my book is a waste of time and money and yes, being with someone who does is boring. 

Was with my "tiger" last night and right now everything is in high gear with hormones pumping but it is so nice to be with this man. He is real, grounded, responsible. We have talked on all subjects. The energy and positive attitude that he has makes me want to pinch myself. My ex was like a brick...heavy, didn't move, didn't talk, wasn't interested in me or anything else, just sat and drank his way into his own little world every night. Sex was boring with my ex, he didn't want to experiment so things were more routine. Last night with my tiger he asked me if I always had a high sex drive....I just had to laugh. Oh my goodness! At least he sees it and he can please it. I told him that I enjoy sex alot as long as it doesn't become routine...new places, new things, new positions, experiment to keep it alive. I have my limits, not going to do any 3-somes and I am not into porn. Right now I am just enjoying every minute of it!!!!!!


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## Lila

My company's holiday party is coming up and I'm kind of pissed. I'm thinking about not going this year. 

In the past, holiday parties were weekday lunch or dinner after work at a nice venue. Only employees were invited. 

This year, the company is hosting an evening dinner on Saturday night at a swanky restaurant. I was looking forward to it until they announced that we each could bring a +1. Guess who's the only one without a +1? None of my girlfriends are available and my kid will be with his dad. This sucks.


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> My company's holiday party is coming up and I'm kind of pissed. I'm thinking about not going this year.
> 
> In the past, holiday parties were weekday lunch or dinner after work at a nice venue. Only employees were invited.
> 
> This year, the company is hosting an evening dinner on Saturday night at a swanky restaurant. I was looking forward to it until they announced that we each could bring a +1. Guess who's the only one without a +1? None of my girlfriends are available and my kid will be with his dad. This sucks.


I can see why that would be a drag. 

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## Not

Lila said:


> My company's holiday party is coming up and I'm kind of pissed. I'm thinking about not going this year.
> 
> In the past, holiday parties were weekday lunch or dinner after work at a nice venue. Only employees were invited.
> 
> This year, the company is hosting an evening dinner on Saturday night at a swanky restaurant. I was looking forward to it until they announced that we each could bring a +1. Guess who's the only one without a +1? None of my girlfriends are available and my kid will be with his dad. This sucks.


I would go alone. There is no rule that you *have* to take someone, right? Be the rebel lol!


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## 2&out

Ours is a +1 but that doesn't mean anyone/everyone has to bring the plus 1. I've done it both ways. Plenty of people both male and female show up solo including every year a few married ones - the spouse has a conflict or doesn't want to go. No kids period. No difference at all and I am not aware of anyone caring or "counting". Why would they ?


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## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> I can see why that would be a drag.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk





Not said:


> I would go alone. There is no rule that you *have* to take someone, right? Be the rebel lol!


Yeah, I'm not happy about it but I got told by my boss that I have to go even if it's just for a pre dinner drink. I am going to be positive and enjoy a free steak dinner and a martini. I'll bolt as soon as they ask if anyone is interested in dessert.


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## Lila

2&out said:


> Ours is a +1 but that doesn't mean anyone/everyone has to bring the plus 1. I've done it both ways. Plenty of people both male and female show up solo including every year a few married ones - the spouse has a conflict or doesn't want to go. No kids period. No difference at all and I am not aware of anyone caring or "counting". Why would they ?


I don't think anyone will care that I'm there alone but it does feel like I'm a fifth wheel. 

My boss told me that I had to come for at least a pre dinner drink. He wants upper management to represent.


----------



## Not

Lila said:


> Yeah, I'm not happy about it but I got told by my boss that I have to go even if it's just for a pre dinner drink. I am going to be positive and enjoy a free steak dinner and a martini. I'll bolt as soon as they ask if anyone is interested in dessert.


That's what I was thinking, stay for a really good (free) dinner. I, personally, would have to stay for dessert too, that's my favorite part!


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## Elizabeth001

Not said:


> That's what I was thinking, stay for a really good (free) dinner. I, personally, would have to stay for dessert too, that's my favorite part!




Or get it boxed to go!!!


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## Not

Not much to report from the frontlines! Things with Sky are moving very sloooooowly. He’s got a lot going on with his daughter, some mental health issues that have him worried so we haven’t seen each other much. He’s just not in the right frame of mind I think. She’s 18 and sounds like a good kid from what he’s told me but she’s an over-achiever and I think the pressure to achieve, and not let mom and dad down, have taken its toll. It’s kind of a mess so I’m trying not to add any pressure from my side of things but it has taken us back to having no time together. Not sure what I want to do about it.


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## 3Xnocharm

Well boys and girls, I did it. I’m finally free from my dead weight relationship. We tried again, after splitting, again, and really missing each other. He was making so much effort, was being so sweet and lovey. And I just couldn’t respond to it. There was an added issue regarding the non existent sex life that he had hidden from me since last year and that just added to that growing list of why I needed to end this. And in the long run, despite his effort, he is who he is and that isn’t going to change. You’re supposed to be able to accept someone for who they are, as they are, and after a while I just couldn’t any more, which isn’t fair for him or sustaining for me. He will always be a man child, I can foresee the same things repeating forever. And I have wasted entirely too much time with this. 

I am doing really good this time. I’m not obsessing. It’s going to hurt when he starts seeing someone but I feel that this time I would be able to deal with it. I felt weak before. Right now I just want to be by myself. I am being a total homebody and loving just being in my space with no one else to worry about. I kinda feel like I never want to get into another relationship and this is something I’ve never felt before. I am also going through a lot of crap at work, looking at the possibility of losing my job early in the new year. So I am stressed about that and have no energy to put towards anyone anyway. 

So anyway. I’m proud of myself. 




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## RebuildingMe

‘‘Tis the season for breakups!


----------



## Not

3Xnocharm said:


> Well boys and girls, I did it. I’m finally free from my dead weight relationship. We tried again, after splitting, again, and really missing each other. He was making so much effort, was being so sweet and lovey. And I just couldn’t respond to it. There was an added issue regarding the non existent sex life that he had hidden from me since last year and that just added to that growing list of why I needed to end this. And in the long run, despite his effort, he is who he is and that isn’t going to change. You’re supposed to be able to accept someone for who they are, as they are, and after a while I just couldn’t any more, which isn’t fair for him or sustaining for me. He will always be a man child, I can foresee the same things repeating forever. And I have wasted entirely too much time with this.
> 
> I am doing really good this time. I’m not obsessing. It’s going to hurt when he starts seeing someone but I feel that this time I would be able to deal with it. I felt weak before. Right now I just want to be by myself. I am being a total homebody and loving just being in my space with no one else to worry about. I kinda feel like I never want to get into another relationship and this is something I’ve never felt before. I am also going through a lot of crap at work, looking at the possibility of losing my job early in the new year. So I am stressed about that and have no energy to put towards anyone anyway.
> 
> So anyway. I’m proud of myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What you’ve written reminds me of something I read recently....paraphrasing....

“I wanted to keep you forever but I let you go. That is my strength. I love deeply and unconditionally but I will let go if that’s what needs to happen.”


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> Well boys and girls, I did it. I’m finally free from my dead weight relationship. We tried again, after splitting, again, and really missing each other. He was making so much effort, was being so sweet and lovey. And I just couldn’t respond to it. There was an added issue regarding the non existent sex life that he had hidden from me since last year and that just added to that growing list of why I needed to end this. And in the long run, despite his effort, he is who he is and that isn’t going to change. You’re supposed to be able to accept someone for who they are, as they are, and after a while I just couldn’t any more, which isn’t fair for him or sustaining for me. He will always be a man child, I can foresee the same things repeating forever. And I have wasted entirely too much time with this.
> 
> I am doing really good this time. I’m not obsessing. It’s going to hurt when he starts seeing someone but I feel that this time I would be able to deal with it. I felt weak before. Right now I just want to be by myself. I am being a total homebody and loving just being in my space with no one else to worry about. I kinda feel like I never want to get into another relationship and this is something I’ve never felt before. I am also going through a lot of crap at work, looking at the possibility of losing my job early in the new year. So I am stressed about that and have no energy to put towards anyone anyway.
> 
> So anyway. I’m proud of myself.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for you. I'm not surprised that you tried one more time, because you really didn't want to break up with him last time. I'm also not surprised that you didn't tell us here, because you definitely would have gotten a lot of crap from everyone here if we knew you guys had gotten back together. But it looks like that is what you needed in order to be sure that it was time for you to move on.

I'm very curious... what was the new/extra issue regarding the non-existent sex life, which you allude to but do not specify? 

You wrote, "I kinda feel like I never want to get into another relationship and this is something I’ve never felt before." This really hit home for me. I've felt this way ever since Real Estate and I broke up. And it's not an angry reaction, it's more like a resigned reality check. I'm at the point where I realize that it's not just my picker that gets me bad men, but I attract them. Decent men, secure men, they simply overlook me. I'm not being down on myself, I'm just being realistic. And it occurs to me that all the time and energy that I invest in a relationship--of which the men never seems to make the same investment--is time and energy I would rather invest in myself. All that time and energy spent in the past... so much wasted on guys while I was neglecting myself. Well, screw that. I'm focusing on me. I'd rather have the life I want and be single.

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----------



## Cynthia

FeministInPink said:


> And it occurs to me that all the time and energy that I invest in a relationship--of which the men never seems to make the same investment--is time and energy I would rather invest in myself. All that time and energy spent in the past... so much wasted on guys while I was neglecting myself. Well, screw that. I'm focusing on me. I'd rather have the life I want and be single.


 I have a feeling that this new investment in yourself and the thinking behind really caring for yourself may have an impact on the kind of people you attract. Not only romantically, but relationships in general. When you value yourself and you show it, people recognize that. In the past, men who want to be taken care of saw that you would take care of them and they don't really have to do anything. If you stick to this new lifestyle, it will show in your attitude and demeanor; and you will be more likely to recognize threats to your personal well-being and move away from them.


----------



## FeministInPink

Cynthia said:


> I have a feeling that this new investment in yourself and the thinking behind really caring for yourself may have an impact on the kind of people you attract. Not only romantically, but relationships in general. When you value yourself and you show it, people recognize that. In the past, men who want to be taken care of saw that you would take care of them and they don't really have to do anything. If you stick to this new lifestyle, it will show in your attitude and demeanor; and you will be more likely to recognize threats to your personal well-being and move away from them.


I hope you're right. There have been a few men in recent months that expressed clear interest, and I recognized them as the "bad/wrong type" for me. I was very proud of myself for passing on those opportunities.

Even if you're not right, this is still better for me, because I will be living the life that is best for me and true to what I want out of life.

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----------



## Cynthia

FeministInPink said:


> I hope you're right. There have been a few men in recent months that expressed clear interest, and I recognized them as the "bad/wrong type" for me. I was very proud of myself for passing on those opportunities.
> 
> Even if you're not right, this is still better for me, because I will be living the life that is best for me and true to what I want out of life.


People respond to who you are as a person.

Are you a martyr? They will respond to that.

Are you a secure woman who knows what she wants, takes excellent care of herself, and has expectations for how others treat her? People will respond to that too.

The question is which attributes do you want people to respond to.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

FeministInPink said:


> You wrote, "I kinda feel like I never want to get into another relationship and this is something I’ve never felt before." This really hit home for me. I've felt this way ever since Real Estate and I broke up. And it's not an angry reaction, it's more like a resigned reality check. I'm at the point where I realize that it's not just my picker that gets me bad men, but I attract them. Decent men, secure men, they simply overlook me. I'm not being down on myself, I'm just being realistic.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



Yes! Agree that it’s not an angry reaction. Yeah there is some feeling of defeat, and it’s like you mentioned here... it’s both my picker and what I attract. I also feel like there are so many people out there with traits I just can’t deal with now... how in the hell do you find anyone good? Someone who maintains the good stuff you fall in love with because they are just.. good? I had a hard time giving up on my now ex because he is the ONLY man I ever had in my life this long who didn’t turn into an ass-hole who treated me like crap. Pretty sad eh?? I know they are out there but other women seem to already have them.

So I am just focusing on me. I have started job hunting for real. I have plans to purge my house, and there are some things around here that need some fixing up. I need to drop some weight and get into a little better shape. Maybe eventually I will be putting a different vibe out into the universe and maybe that will draw my person into my life, who knows. I’m just disgusted that I allowed myself to stay in something that was so unfulfilling for so damn long. This was all so... abnormal. I don’t know how to even do a relationship any more. 



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## lifeistooshort

3Xnocharm said:


> Yes! Agree that it’s not an angry reaction. Yeah there is some feeling of defeat, and it’s like you mentioned here... it’s both my picker and what I attract. I also feel like there are so many people out there with traits I just can’t deal with now... how in the hell do you find anyone good? Someone who maintains the good stuff you fall in love with because they are just.. good? I had a hard time giving up on my now ex because he is the ONLY man I ever had in my life this long who didn’t turn into an ass-hole who treated me like crap. Pretty sad eh?? I know they are out there but other women seem to already have them.
> 
> So I am just focusing on me. I have started job hunting for real. I have plans to purge my house, and there are some things around here that need some fixing up. I need to drop some weight and get into a little better shape. Maybe eventually I will be putting a different vibe out into the universe and maybe that will draw my person into my life, who knows. I’m just disgusted that I allowed myself to stay in something that was so unfulfilling for so damn long. This was all so... abnormal. I don’t know how to even do a relationship any more.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




It seems to me that you ended up with your ex for the same reasons I ended up with my phony, shady ex. My first hb was a nasty *******, so I was open to anyone who wasn't openly an *******. And that meant I ignored red flags because he was basically nice to me.

Except that he wasn't nice. ..he was phony, passive aggressive, and dishonest. And he was petty and controlling through his PA tactics. I too am disgusted that I put up with his **** as long as i did. Live and learn i suppose.

What I learned is that while you have to be willing to take a risk you also need to be open and clear about your needs and expectations. And if you haven't had counseling I highly recommend it. I had it for 2 1/2 years and it was so valuable.....I learned that have to be honest about who I am and what I need. I've not always been good at this but am doing much better. I think if I'd had good counseling after my first marriage I wouldn't have married the ex.

As for my current guy....you might remember that I just ran into him. Otherwise I really don't care about being partnered. Fill your time with things that make you happy and see what happens.


----------



## Not

So I'm doing a thing. D24 moved to Portland back in September and it's not working out. It's just to expensive out there. She has roommates but they aren't getting along and she can't afford to live on her own. Soooo...I'm driving out to go get her. I leave in the morning.

I live in the Great Lakes area so it's just over 2000 miles one way. After I pick her up we're driving down to the Tahoe/Reno area to spend Christmas with my family. I've taken cross country trips before but this one will be the mother of all cross country trips for me lol! By the time it's over I'll have put right around 5000 miles on my car.

I won't be around so......Merry Christmas to you all!


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## 3Xnocharm

Not, that sounds exciting! Safe travels to you!


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## sunsetmist

@Not Safe travels! Enjoy your family. Daughter is fortunate to have you... Merry Christmas and a Blessed New Year...


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## lifeistooshort

Hey @Not, safe travels and enjoy the scenery!

The western US is spectacular to see...as an AZ girl I've seen much of it.

Talk to you next year!


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## Andy1001

Not said:


> So I'm doing a thing. D24 moved to Portland back in September and it's not working out. It's just to expensive out there. She has roommates but they aren't getting along and she can't afford to live on her own. Soooo...I'm driving out to go get her. I leave in the morning.
> 
> I live in the Great Lakes area so it's just over 2000 miles one way. After I pick her up we're driving down to the Tahoe/Reno area to spend Christmas with my family. I've taken cross country trips before but this one will be the mother of all cross country trips for me lol! By the time it's over I'll have put right around 5000 miles on my car.
> 
> I won't be around so......Merry Christmas to you all!


I wouldn’t drive two thousand miles even if I had Charlize Theron along for the ride with a guaranteed “rest stop” every four hours. 😏
But @Not if you’re determined to do this trip why not check out how much a rental will cost. You could hire a van with more space for your daughters stuff and save putting five thousand miles on your own vehicle.


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## FeministInPink

So, guess what I bought myself for Christmas?

...
...
...

I bought myself a piano!!! Well, I made the first payment on a digital piano... I stopped in at a music store near my house, and they had a floor model of a Yamaha Arius that was just discontinued, which they were offering at 20% off. I fell in love with this piano, but I made myself sleep on it for a few days before making a decision. I put it on layaway instead of financing, so I don't have to pay any interest, and I should have it paid off before my birthday, and they are going to deliver it for free.

I'M SO EXCITED!!!!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

FeministInPink said:


> So, guess what I bought myself for Christmas?
> 
> ...
> ...
> ...
> 
> I bought myself a piano!!! Well, I made the first payment on a digital piano... I stopped in at a music store near my house, and they had a floor model of a Yamaha Arius that was just discontinued, which they were offering at 20% off. I fell in love with this piano, but I made myself sleep on it for a few days before making a decision. I put it on layaway instead of financing, so I don't have to pay any interest, and I should have it paid off before my birthday, and they are going to deliver it for free.
> 
> I'M SO EXCITED!!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I hope you can play it. 
Otherwise it will be a yamahahahahaha. 
Sorry,my bad. It’s very early (or late) and I didn’t get any sleep last night.


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## Elizabeth001

FeministInPink said:


> I fell in love with this piano, but I made myself sleep on it for a few days before making a decision.



Dang...I bet that was uncomfortable!

I think the diversion will be great for you FIP. Congrats 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> As for my current guy....you might remember that I just ran into him. Otherwise I really don't care about being partnered. Fill your time with things that make you happy and see what happens.


I can't agree with this more. 

It really works.:smile2:


----------



## lifeistooshort

ConanHub said:


> I can't agree with this more.
> 
> It really works.:smile2:


Strangely enough, people become more interested when its clear you don't care. It's like showing the back of your ass, figuratively speaking, is an aphrodisiac :rofl:

Desperation emits a stink.


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## Andy1001

lifeistooshort said:


> Strangely enough, people become more interested when its clear you don't care. It's like showing the back of your ass, figuratively speaking, is an aphrodisiac :rofl:
> 
> Desperation emits a stink.


If someone sees you as a challenge instead of seeing themselves as a prize then you are in control of your relationship. 
In my dating days I used this technique with great success.


----------



## FeministInPink

Andy1001 said:


> I hope you can play it.
> 
> Otherwise it will be a yamahahahahaha.
> 
> Sorry,my bad. It’s very early (or late) and I didn’t get any sleep last night.


Ha ha ha ha!!!

Yes, I play. I studied piano for 10 years. I've done my best to keep up with it, because I love playing. It hasn't always been easy, since I haven't always had ready access to a piano.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Andy1001 said:


> If someone sees you as a challenge instead of seeing themselves as a prize then you are in control of your relationship.
> 
> In my dating days I used this technique with great success.


I need coaching in this area.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort

I want to throw this out there for alternate opinions.

Many of you know I've been seeing another cyclist for a little over a year now. I started seeing him while we were waiting for the judge to sign my divorce papers. I had turned down his date offer before that (he hadn't realized I was married) even though I knew I was going to file because it didn't seem right. When he realized the ex and I had split he offered again and I accepted.

Honestly it was probably a little soon, but I'd been emotionally split from my ex for close to a year and I enjoyed spending time with this guy.

As it turns out this has been a really good thing for me. He's a great guy....we spend weekends together riding and hanging out, and will often see each other once or twice during the week.

We get along really well and are exclusive.....we are sexually active (rocking chemistry) and have had the disease talk. Neither of us wants to be exposed to anything, and frankly I just don't think he's the type to get around much (nor am i). He's a little odd and I could see how he might not mesh well with many women, but we seem to get each other. In truth we're really both guarded nerdy introverts. We talk astrophysics and argue about weather DC or Marvel is better, if that puts it in perspective. We had quite a long text exchange yesterday about whether Superman snapping Zod's neck or Tony Stark snapping his fingers and eliminating Thanos was a more iconic scene.

I feel lots if affection from him and I feel affectionate towards him. BUT....neither one of us has used the L word. I'm good with that....but my best friend can't understand this. In her mind we should have already professed undying love for each other.

On my end, I'm quite comfortable with what we have. I couldn't even contemplate a future with anyone until my youngest is at least in college, and he's a high school junior. And I feel like my ex love bombed me which interfered with my ability to digest red flags. This guy treats me well, doesn't see anyone else, and makes me happy....but doesn't love bomb me or ask for anything I'm not comfortable with. I feel like it allows me to see things more clearly.

I suppose its possible that I may come to a point where I want more than him, or maybe he'll get to that point and I won't be there. Or maybe we'll both get there. If we ultimately diverge in our paths that's ok ...I'll have enjoyed this very much. He's met my boys and I've met his parents and brothers.....they all love me. He says his parents light up when I come around. Hell, I spent Thanksgiving with them (they invited my boys but they went to their dad's house) and will be over there for Christmas as the boys will be with dad again. They're older so custody doesn't factor in, and their dad's gf has a big family dinner planned. So it's no problem for me to cook for them tonight and then they can share in that dinner.

So is it weird that we're not proclaiming undying love for each other after a year? My best friend seems to think so but she and I are different in this regard, but I have another close friend who thinks this setup sounds amazing. I feel like this kind of setup is exactly what I need.


----------



## Andy1001

lifeistooshort said:


> I want to throw this out there for alternate opinions.
> 
> Many of you know I've been seeing another cyclist for a little over a year now. I started seeing him while we were waiting for the judge to sign my divorce papers. I had turned down his date offer before that (he hadn't realized I was married) even though I knew I was going to file because it didn't seem right. When he realized the ex and I had split he offered again and I accepted.
> 
> Honestly it was probably a little soon, but I'd been emotionally split from my ex for close to a year and I enjoyed spending time with this guy.
> 
> As it turns out this has been a really good thing for me. He's a great guy....we spend weekends together riding and hanging out, and will often see each other once or twice during the week.
> 
> We get along really well and are exclusive.....we are sexually active (rocking chemistry) and have had the disease talk. Neither of us wants to be exposed to anything, and frankly I just don't think he's the type to get around much (nor am i). He's a little odd and I could see how he might not mesh well with many women, but we seem to get each other. In truth we're really both guarded nerdy introverts. We talk astrophysics and argue about weather DC or Marvel is better, if that puts it in perspective. We had quite a long text exchange yesterday about whether Superman snapping Zod's neck or Tony Stark snapping his fingers and eliminating Thanos was a more iconic scene.
> 
> I feel lots if affection from him and I feel affectionate towards him. BUT....neither one of us has used the L word. I'm good with that....but my best friend can't understand this. In her mind we should have already professed undying love for each other.
> 
> On my end, I'm quite comfortable with what we have. I couldn't even contemplate a future with anyone until my youngest is at least in college, and he's a high school junior. And I feel like my ex love bombed me which interfered with my ability to digest red flags. This guy treats me well, doesn't see anyone else, and makes me happy....but doesn't love bomb me or ask for anything I'm not comfortable with. I feel like it allows me to see things more clearly.
> 
> I suppose its possible that I may come to a point where I want more than him, or maybe he'll get to that point and I won't be there. Or maybe we'll both get there. If we ultimately diverge in our paths that's ok ...I'll have enjoyed this very much. He's met my boys and I've met his parents and brothers.....they all love me. He says his parents light up when I come around. Hell, I spent Thanksgiving with them (they invited my boys but they went to their dad's house) and will be over there for Christmas as the boys will be with dad again. They're older so custody doesn't factor in, and their dad's gf has a big family dinner planned. So it's no problem for me to cook for them tonight and then they can share in that dinner.
> 
> So is it weird that we're not proclaiming undying love for each other after a year? My best friend seems to think so but she and I are different in this regard, but I have another close friend who thinks this setup sounds amazing. I feel like this kind of setup is exactly what I need.


You say you’ve met his parents and brothers but you don’t mention any kids. Was he married before?
I only ever told one woman in my life that I loved her and it took about three years of dating to say it. (Her answer was “I know”)
Maybe he only wants to say it to one woman too, so he’s not rushing into anything.


----------



## jorgegene

my 2c is: don't say you love someone unless and until you really mean it. don't fake love. don't force it. don't even say it until you get what it really means. love is forever. you can't take it back.

as far as your situation; i would rather someone i was with withhold the L word until they are really sure of it than throw it out at the first tingly feelings.

in other words, no, not an issue.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Andy1001 said:


> You say you’ve met his parents and brothers but you don’t mention any kids. Was he married before?
> I only ever told one woman in my life that I loved her and it took about three years of dating to say it. (Her answer was “I know”)
> Maybe he only wants to say it to one woman too, so he’s not rushing into anything.


Never been married and no kids.

Says he never met the right person.


----------



## sunsetmist

Y'all get to decide what you are comfortable with and it sounds pretty good right now. I would not discuss this with your girlfriend as she has no investment. That is, her choices are hers and yours are yours. 

You know what you want by now and are good about following that plan. We should all be so fortunate!.


----------



## lifeistooshort

jorgegene said:


> my 2c is: don't say you love someone unless and until you really mean it. don't fake love. don't force it. don't even say it until you get what it really means. love is forever. you can't take it back.
> 
> as far as your situation; i would rather someone i was with withhold the L word until they are really sure of it than throw it out at the first tingly feelings.
> 
> in other words, no, not an issue.


Yeah....I agree. Also, I get the feeling that he has trouble expressing himself where feelings are concerned. I'm kind of like that too and am not particularly needy or touchy feely.

But I feel a connection even if neither of us are good with words.

My ex was great about telling me how much he loved me, but as he threw me under the bus repeatedly to avoid discomfort and kept his ex on the side our entire relationship what good were his proclamations of love?

I actually just got a text telling me his dad had fallen and was in the hospital and did I want to join him for a visit, so apparently I'm important enough for that. I'm happy to go.....I love his dad.


----------



## TBT

lifeistooshort said:


> Never been married and no kids.
> 
> Says he never met the right person.


This is my first post on this thread and it is more about curiosity with regards to the above. Sorry in advance if I'm out of line.

Anyway,I'm just wondering whether or not you see yourself as the right person? Also,how old is he and what is his criteria for the right person.if you know?


----------



## lifeistooshort

TBT said:


> This is my first post on this thread and it is more about curiosity with regards to the above. Sorry in advance if I'm out of line.
> 
> Anyway,I'm just wondering whether or not you see yourself as the right person? Also,how old is he and what is his criteria for the right person.if you know?


It's fine....they're fair questions if you don't know my backstory.

The answer is I don't know and right now I don't care. I'm 45, twice divorced, 2 teenage sons, and am not having more kids.

He's 54 and it's clear kids are not in his future, so right now we just like each other's company and have many shared interests. 

I'm unsure if I want to be married again. I haven't shut the door on it but right now I feel like I'd be fine without it. I have a good income and my own assets so I'd have to think about what's in it for me.


----------



## TBT

Thanks for the reply. Very understandable and reasonable. I get it as I've been in similar situations,


----------



## Andy1001

FeministInPink said:


> I need coaching in this area.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


You have the ingredients. 
All you need is the recipe.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

lifeistooshort said:


> I want to throw this out there for alternate opinions.
> 
> Many of you know I've been seeing another cyclist for a little over a year now. I started seeing him while we were waiting for the judge to sign my divorce papers. I had turned down his date offer before that (he hadn't realized I was married) even though I knew I was going to file because it didn't seem right. When he realized the ex and I had split he offered again and I accepted.
> 
> Honestly it was probably a little soon, but I'd been emotionally split from my ex for close to a year and I enjoyed spending time with this guy.
> 
> As it turns out this has been a really good thing for me. He's a great guy....we spend weekends together riding and hanging out, and will often see each other once or twice during the week.
> 
> We get along really well and are exclusive.....we are sexually active (rocking chemistry) and have had the disease talk. Neither of us wants to be exposed to anything, and frankly I just don't think he's the type to get around much (nor am i). He's a little odd and I could see how he might not mesh well with many women, but we seem to get each other. In truth we're really both guarded nerdy introverts. We talk astrophysics and argue about weather DC or Marvel is better, if that puts it in perspective. We had quite a long text exchange yesterday about whether Superman snapping Zod's neck or Tony Stark snapping his fingers and eliminating Thanos was a more iconic scene.
> 
> I feel lots if affection from him and I feel affectionate towards him. BUT....neither one of us has used the L word. I'm good with that....but my best friend can't understand this. In her mind we should have already professed undying love for each other.
> 
> On my end, I'm quite comfortable with what we have. I couldn't even contemplate a future with anyone until my youngest is at least in college, and he's a high school junior. And I feel like my ex love bombed me which interfered with my ability to digest red flags. This guy treats me well, doesn't see anyone else, and makes me happy....but doesn't love bomb me or ask for anything I'm not comfortable with. I feel like it allows me to see things more clearly.
> 
> I suppose its possible that I may come to a point where I want more than him, or maybe he'll get to that point and I won't be there. Or maybe we'll both get there. If we ultimately diverge in our paths that's ok ...I'll have enjoyed this very much. He's met my boys and I've met his parents and brothers.....they all love me. He says his parents light up when I come around. Hell, I spent Thanksgiving with them (they invited my boys but they went to their dad's house) and will be over there for Christmas as the boys will be with dad again. They're older so custody doesn't factor in, and their dad's gf has a big family dinner planned. So it's no problem for me to cook for them tonight and then they can share in that dinner.
> 
> So is it weird that we're not proclaiming undying love for each other after a year? My best friend seems to think so but she and I are different in this regard, but I have another close friend who thinks this setup sounds amazing. I feel like this kind of setup is exactly what I need.


What I read sounds like what exclusive dating should be... and it does have a love involved because of the kindness and consideration, the communication and effort, the balance of giving and taking you show toward another whether you express it with "I love you" or not.

Romantic love is nice, but it can also be superficial without the foundation of true love's steadiness... true love needs loving kindness, compassion, joy, and inclusiveness.

If you are happy and your exclusive partner is happy, and all this a year later, you may be further along in your proclamation than is thought.

Just enjoy it... 0


----------



## lifeistooshort

Emerging Buddhist said:


> What I read sounds like what exclusive dating should be... and it does have a love involved because of the kindness and consideration, the communication and effort, the balance of giving and taking you show toward another whether you express it with "I love you" or not.
> 
> Romantic love is nice, but it can also be superficial without the foundation of true love's steadiness... true love needs loving kindness, compassion, joy, and inclusiveness.
> 
> If you are happy and your exclusive partner is happy, and all this a year later, you may be further along in your proclamation than is thought.
> 
> Just enjoy it... 0


Thanks EM, you might be right about being further along then I realize sometimes. As for romantic love, to me this is romantic love. We have great chemistry and look forward to sex with each other, have many things in common, have much to talk about, and look forward to seeing each other even when sex will not be involved. What's missing for romantic love?

I think that the over the top proclamations can mask incompatibilities, which is part of what happened with my ex.

If you feel loved what else matters? My ex proclaimed love often but I hadn't felt loved for a long time.


----------



## AVR1962

FeministInPink said:


> So, guess what I bought myself for Christmas?
> 
> ...
> ...
> ...
> 
> I bought myself a piano!!! Well, I made the first payment on a digital piano... I stopped in at a music store near my house, and they had a floor model of a Yamaha Arius that was just discontinued, which they were offering at 20% off. I fell in love with this piano, but I made myself sleep on it for a few days before making a decision. I put it on layaway instead of financing, so I don't have to pay any interest, and I should have it paid off before my birthday, and they are going to deliver it for free.
> 
> I'M SO EXCITED!!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Do you play, or are you planning on taking lessons? I have been an instructor for 38 years. I have a Pearl Baby Grand myself and love it!!! Worked off a digital for 10 years before I bought the baby grand. Digitals are nice in that you don't have to tune them and they have a nice sound and feel. I hope you enjoy it!


----------



## Lila

I decided to do something crazy last week and it turned out to be a great gamble. I went to an event where I was completely out of my element and didn't know a soul. I was enjoying people watching when lo and behold I ran into someone I've known professionally for 20 years. We had a great time. I threw caution to the wind and flirted outrageously, and WOW did that feel good. It was totally out of character for me but he made me feel safe doing so. I can't tell if he's interested in me in "that way" (we share a common hobby and he's asked me out next week to go do it) but regardless, I feel like a million bucks. I let down my guard and didn't let the prospect of rejection prevent me from being open to someone else. I was me - fun and flirty. I hadn't done that in a looooong time. Here's hoping this is a small taste of things to come in 2020.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Lila said:


> I decided to do something crazy last week and it turned out to be a great gamble. I went to an event where I was completely out of my element and didn't know a soul. I was enjoying people watching when lo and behold I ran into someone I've known professionally for 20 years. We had a great time. I threw caution to the wind and flirted outrageously, and WOW did that feel good. It was totally out of character for me but he made me feel safe doing so. I can't tell if he's interested in me in "that way" (we share a common hobby and he's asked me out next week to go do it) but regardless, I feel like a million bucks. I let down my guard and didn't let the prospect of rejection prevent me from being open to someone else. I was me - fun and flirty. I hadn't done that in a looooong time. Here's hoping this is a small taste of things to come in 2020.




That's a great idea! People are most attractive when they're doing things they enjoy. Others who share the things you enjoy will be drawn to that.

You don't have to worry so much about rejection because you're there primarily to do these things you enjoy. If one doesn't work you make friends. I have so many friends that I treasure.from my running and cycling activities.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Lila said:


> I decided to do something crazy last week and it turned out to be a great gamble. I went to an event where I was completely out of my element and didn't know a soul. I was enjoying people watching when lo and behold I ran into someone I've known professionally for 20 years. We had a great time. I threw caution to the wind and flirted outrageously, and WOW did that feel good. It was totally out of character for me but he made me feel safe doing so. I can't tell if he's interested in me in "that way" (we share a common hobby and he's asked me out next week to go do it) but regardless, I feel like a million bucks. I let down my guard and didn't let the prospect of rejection prevent me from being open to someone else. I was me - fun and flirty. I hadn't done that in a looooong time. Here's hoping this is a small taste of things to come in 2020.


This
is
so 
cool...

Here's to being "you".

Pretty sweet, isn't it?

Namaste :grin2:


----------



## Lila

lifeistooshort said:


> That's a great idea! People are most attractive when they're doing things they enjoy. Others who share the things you enjoy will be drawn to that.
> 
> You don't have to worry so much about rejection because you're there primarily to do these things you enjoy. If one doesn't work you make friends. I have so many friends that I treasure.from my running and cycling activities.


You're absolutely right. After chatting with him some more he's definitely not attracted to me in a romantic sense but he can still be a good friend and that's good with me. 



Emerging Buddhist said:


> This
> is
> so
> cool...
> 
> Here's to being "you".
> 
> Pretty sweet, isn't it?
> 
> Namaste :grin2:



It does feel good to be me. It may not help me attract a partner but that's ok. At least I can keep my friends entertained with my adventures. :smile2:


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Lila said:


> It does feel good to be me. *It may not help me attract a partner* but that's ok. At least I can keep my friends entertained with my adventures. :smile2:


It will help you attract the RIGHT partner.

Ask me how I know... :wink2:


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## lifeistooshort

Emerging Buddhist said:


> It will help you attract the RIGHT partner.
> 
> Ask me how I know... :wink2:


Exactly what I was going to say!

You beat me to it


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## FeministInPink

AVR1962 said:


> Do you play, or are you planning on taking lessons? I have been an instructor for 38 years. I have a Pearl Baby Grand myself and love it!!! Worked off a digital for 10 years before I bought the baby grand. Digitals are nice in that you don't have to tune them and they have a nice sound and feel. I hope you enjoy it!


Yes, I play. I took lessons for 10 years. I did my best to keep it up after I left for college, but I haven't always had ready access to a piano, so I'm a little rusty now. I'm looking forward to remedying that. I used to be able to play for hours from memory... I can't do that anymore.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

@lifeistooshort What compels a lot of people to say "I love you" early on is limerance, and not necessarily real love. Real love grows over time, coming from shared experiences, shared memories, shared goals for the future, etc. For some people, that grows naturally put of the limerance phase for some it doesn't. 

So I think it's ok that you haven't said you love each other yet. And given that you're not sure if you want to hey married again, your subconscious may be keeping you from fully engaging in a way that would open yourself to the possibility of falling in love. In the same vein, at 54, he may be hesitant to open himself up to that possibility, because that represents a major change for him that he may not welcome. 

But this seems to be working for both of you right now, and that's great. Not every relationship has to be a long-term love match. If it's right for right now, that's ok, too.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## AVR1962

FeministInPink said:


> Yes, I play. I took lessons for 10 years. I did my best to keep it up after I left for college, but I haven't always had ready access to a piano, so I'm a little rusty now. I'm looking forward to remedying that. I used to be able to play for hours from memory... I can't do that anymore.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


It will come back to you...enjoy!


----------



## lifeistooshort

FeministInPink said:


> @lifeistooshort What compels a lot of people to say "I love you" early on is limerance, and not necessarily real love. Real love grows over time, coming from shared experiences, shared memories, shared goals for the future, etc. For some people, that grows naturally put of the limerance phase for some it doesn't.
> 
> So I think it's ok that you haven't said you love each other yet. And given that you're not sure if you want to hey married again, your subconscious may be keeping you from fully engaging in a way that would open yourself to the possibility of falling in love. In the same vein, at 54, he may be hesitant to open himself up to that possibility, because that represents a major change for him that he may not welcome.
> 
> But this seems to be working for both of you right now, and that's great. Not every relationship has to be a long-term love match. If it's right for right now, that's ok, too.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



That's an interesting take I hadn't considered. If that's the case then I like this because it makes me happy without pressure, so I can better evaluate compatibility. It ties in with my thinking about this limerance interfering with good judgement. At this point there's nothing to make me think I couldn't be with him long term.....the marriage thing may well be a non issue as we're clearly not going to have kids together and we both work and support ourselves. I suppose I'd consider it if it turned out to be something he really wanted but I don't care that much. I'd be just as happy to have a compatible, supportive partner to keep me company.

I'm not suited to big declarations of love anyway. It's always made me uncomfortable.


----------



## Elizabeth001

lifeistooshort said:


> That's an interesting take I hadn't considered. If that's the case then I like this because it makes me happy without pressure, so I can better evaluate compatibility. It ties in with my thinking about this limerance interfering with good judgement. At this point there's nothing to make me think I couldn't be with him long term.....the marriage thing may well be a non issue as we're clearly not going to have kids together and we both work and support ourselves. I suppose I'd consider it if it turned out to be something he really wanted but I don't care that much. I'd be just as happy to have a compatible, supportive partner to keep me company.
> 
> I'm not suited to big declarations of love anyway. It's always made me uncomfortable.




Me too! That last guy was dying to tell me that after 2 weeks! Wth? He kept stopping short...saying he was REALLY falling for me  That screams emotionally needy to me. Pass. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort

Elizabeth001 said:


> Me too! That last guy was dying to tell me that after 2 weeks! Wth? He kept stopping short...saying he was REALLY falling for me  That screams emotionally needy to me. Pass.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ewwww....creepy.

It's not based on anything beyond hormones after 2 weeks. 
You couldn't evaluate someone if you wanted to at that point because it's likely you haven't yet seen the real person. At that point you're still getting the representative who wants to impress you.

Time is required to see who someone really is.


----------



## Elizabeth001

lifeistooshort said:


> Ewwww....creepy.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not based on anything beyond hormones after 2 weeks.
> 
> You couldn't evaluate someone if you wanted to at that point because it's likely you haven't yet seen the real person. At that point you're still getting the representative who wants to impress you.
> 
> 
> 
> Time is required to see who someone really is.




Yep...tried to tell him that to no avail. Can’t believe a 59 year old man acting like a luv sick teenager. PAlease. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

Elizabeth001 said:


> Me too! That last guy was dying to tell me that after 2 weeks! Wth? He kept stopping short...saying he was REALLY falling for me  That screams emotionally needy to me. Pass.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, I would seriously question the emotional and mental health of someone who was saying that after only two weeks! Can you say "love bombing?" Seriously!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

lifeistooshort said:


> That's an interesting take I hadn't considered. If that's the case then I like this because it makes me happy without pressure, so I can better evaluate compatibility. It ties in with my thinking about this limerance interfering with good judgement. At this point there's nothing to make me think I couldn't be with him long term.....the marriage thing may well be a non issue as we're clearly not going to have kids together and we both work and support ourselves. I suppose I'd consider it if it turned out to be something he really wanted but I don't care that much. I'd be just as happy to have a compatible, supportive partner to keep me company.
> 
> I'm not suited to big declarations of love anyway. It's always made me uncomfortable.


My feeling is that as long as you're happy--and not engaging in any actions that are unhealthy or harmful--then that is great, and keep doing what you're doing.

If you want more, you're not getting the more that you want, and your partner isn't willing to give it to you... well, then you need to consider if you want to keep on with the present relationship, or end it to seek out what you want. 

It sounds to me like you're happy with the relationship. That's all the matters. Your friend, the one who is casting doubt because you guys haven't exchanged ILY yet? She's just projecting her relationship goals/expectations onto your relationship. That's what SHE wants/expects on a relationship, and that's great--for her. Don't let her cause you to question what you know to be right for you.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Hopeful Cynic

FeministInPink said:


> Elizabeth001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me too! That last guy was dying to tell me that after 2 weeks! Wth? He kept stopping short...saying he was REALLY falling for me  That screams emotionally needy to me. Pass.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I would seriously question the emotional and mental health of someone who was saying that after only two weeks! Can you say "love bombing?" Seriously!
Click to expand...

That is someone who doesn't know the difference between lust/limerence and love.

In other words, the kind of man who would profess undying devotion, but then when another woman came along who triggered that lust, he would tell you he loved you but was not in love with you. Probably AFTER starting an affair.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Hopeful Cynic said:


> That is someone who doesn't know the difference between lust/limerence and love.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, the kind of man who would profess undying devotion, but then when another woman came along who triggered that lust, he would tell you he loved you but was not in love with you. Probably AFTER starting an affair.




Naaa...this guy was married for over 30 years and she took care of everything. I think he’s looking for a new mommy. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lila

One of my New Year's Resolutions this year is to live in the moment. In that vein, I had another great night last night. I went out with the guy I met last week at the impromptu event. I was my flirty self again and actually ramped it up to "seductive tease" mode. 

I'm still not sure of his level of interest. He responded to my flirtatiousness but he didn't initiate. I even initiated "the kiss" (a very sensual soft kiss) which he reciprocated but didn't escalate. The only time this has happened to me in the past, the guy wasn't interested and just forcing himself to give me the "3 date trial period". 

Any insight would be appreciated. For reference, he is quite a bit older than me.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> You're absolutely right. After chatting with him some more he's definitely not attracted to me in a romantic sense but he can still be a good friend and that's good with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does feel good to be me. It may not help me attract a partner but that's ok. At least I can keep my friends entertained with my adventures. :smile2:


Letting people see that playful side of you will do far more to attract the right person than most other things you could do.

KEEP...DOING...IT...

Be UNAPOLOGETICALLY you.

That 'you' is a fun person to be around. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist

Lila said:


> One of my New Year's Resolutions this year is to live in the moment. In that vein, I had another great night last night. I went out with the guy I met last week at the impromptu event. I was my flirty self again and actually ramped it up to "seductive tease" mode.
> 
> I'm still not sure of his level of interest. He responded to my flirtatiousness but he didn't initiate. I even initiated "the kiss" (a very sensual soft kiss) which he reciprocated but didn't escalate. The only time this has happened to me in the past, the guy wasn't interested and just forcing himself to give me the "3 date trial period".
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated. For reference, he is quite a bit older than me.


How old is "quite a bit"?


----------



## Blondilocks

Lila said:


> One of my New Year's Resolutions this year is to live in the moment. In that vein, I had another great night last night. I went out with the guy I met last week at the impromptu event. I was my flirty self again and actually ramped it up to "seductive tease" mode.
> 
> I'm still not sure of his level of interest. He responded to my flirtatiousness but he didn't initiate. I even initiated "the kiss" (a very sensual soft kiss) which he reciprocated but didn't escalate. The only time this has happened to me in the past, the guy wasn't interested and just forcing himself to give me the "3 date trial period".
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated. For reference, he is quite a bit older than me.


Are you really interested in him or are you just having fun? Depending on his age, he may be of the mind that men make the moves. Or, he may be wary and protecting his heart.


----------



## Lila

farsidejunky said:


> Letting people see that playful side of you will do far more to attract the right person than most other things you could do.
> 
> KEEP...DOING...IT...
> 
> Be UNAPOLOGETICALLY you.
> 
> *That 'you' is a fun person to be around. *
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I know I'm the fun friend. I just wish I could be the fun _ girlfriend _. 

I feel like that saying "always the bridesmaid, never the bride" fits me. 



Emerging Buddhist said:


> How old is "quite a bit"?


He's in his early 60s. 



Blondilocks said:


> Are you really interested in him or are you just having fun? Depending on his age, he may be of the mind that men make the moves. Or, he may be wary and protecting his heart.


I'm definitely interested (he's very attractive and we share a lot in common) but I wouldn't risk a friendship with him if he's not interested.


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## Blondilocks

Sorry, @Lila, he's too old for you. He probably has grandkids your son's age. And, you know that myth that men age better than women? Don't you believe it. Just don't believe it. By age 70, they all (ok, most *< that was only to mollify the ones who hate generalizations*) start to look like that portrait in the attic.


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## lifeistooshort

Lila, look elsewhere.

As someone who just got rid of a 19 years older guy i can tell you it ain't worth it.


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## Elizabeth001

@Lila

I third those opinions. 


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## Lila

Blondilocks said:


> Sorry, @Lila, he's too old for you. He probably has grandkids your son's age. And, you know that myth that men age better than women? Don't you believe it. Just don't believe it. By age 70, they all (ok, most *< that was only to mollify the ones who hate generalizations*) start to look like that portrait in the attic.


Luckily his kids are in their late 20s, unmarried and no grandkids but I do understand what you're saying. I absolutely know that men do not age better than women. IME, most age worse because they stop taking care of themselves. 

I lol'd at the "portrait in the Attic". Hahaha. Have to agree. 



lifeistooshort said:


> Lila, look elsewhere.
> 
> As someone who just got rid of a 19 years older guy i can tell you it ain't worth it.


I know you're right but the question is where do I look?. Trust me, I've been looking. Just last night I went out to a singles event. Almost everyone there was around my age and relatively attractive. I sat at a table with 4 men and 5 women (me included). I literally kept the group laughing and the conversation going with stories. By all accounts, everyone was having a good time. The four men paired up with the four other women and I ended trading numbers with the women because, ya know, women like having a funny friend. That's my life.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Lila said:


> Luckily his kids are in their late 20s, unmarried and no grandkids but I do understand what you're saying. I absolutely know that men do not age better than women. IME, most age worse because they stop taking care of themselves.
> 
> I lol'd at the "portrait in the Attic". Hahaha. Have to agree.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you're right but the question is where do I look?. Trust me, I've been looking. Just last night I went out to a singles event. Almost everyone there was around my age and relatively attractive. I sat at a table with 4 men and 5 women (me included). I literally kept the group laughing and the conversation going with stories. By all accounts, everyone was having a good time. The four men paired up with the four other women and I ended trading numbers with the women because, ya know, women like having a funny friend. That's my life.




Take up cycling and join a club. I'm serious....it's 90 percent men and all of the single ones are looking. I know a lot of couples who met that way, and a shocking number are comparatively aged. It draws a predominantly 40 and up crowd with a few 30 somethings. I don't know anyone in the bike club with a large age difference.

It's a blast, but also a time consuming hobby and it's a lot of time to spend together. I met my guy the 1st day I showed up to a club, and a few more had expressed interest before the guy I'm seeing made clear he was there 

Plus, all athletic hobbies are good for you.

I have a running buddy who is 51 and met his 53 year old gf through a meetup group. He says it saved him after his divorce.....says he would've been home on his couch every night. They still go to the group together.


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## ConanHub

Elizabeth001 said:


> Yep...tried to tell him that to no avail. Can’t believe a 59 year old man acting like a luv sick teenager. PAlease.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Come on. Give the guy a break.

I can barely resist you and your only an anonymous, if cute, doggy avatar on the internet!:wink2::grin2:


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## Elizabeth001

ConanHub said:


> Come on. Give the guy a break.
> 
> 
> 
> I can barely resist you and your only an anonymous, if cute, doggy avatar on the internet!:wink2::grin2:




 @Lila is my sister from another mister. We are in the same place. 

Lila... STOP LOOKING. That’s your answer. Live your life and feel your best. If it was meant to be, it will find you!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

@ConanHub... he’s my special child. Not the brightest crayon in the box but is so loving and loyal to me. He’s curled up right beside me as I type on this warm, rainy day in VA. 

My favorite puppy picture of him although he turned 7 on the 27th of December:










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## ConanHub

Elizabeth001 said:


> @ConanHub... he’s my special child. Not the brightest crayon in the box but is so loving and loyal to me. He’s curled up right beside me as I type on this warm, rainy day in VA.
> 
> My favorite puppy picture of him although he turned 7 on the 27th of December:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm a sucker for cute puppy eyes.

Great picture!


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## Andy1001

Lila said:


> Luckily his kids are in their late 20s, unmarried and no grandkids but I do understand what you're saying. I absolutely know that men do not age better than women. IME, most age worse because they stop taking care of themselves.
> 
> I lol'd at the "portrait in the Attic". Hahaha. Have to agree.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you're right but the question is where do I look?. Trust me, I've been looking. Just last night I went out to a singles event. Almost everyone there was around my age and relatively attractive. I sat at a table with 4 men and 5 women (me included). I literally kept the group laughing and the conversation going with stories. By all accounts, everyone was having a good time. The four men paired up with the four other women and I ended trading numbers with the women because, ya know, women like having a funny friend. That's my life.


Lila I say this gently. Stop trying so hard. 
Again gently, while you are being the “funny one” at a meet up, the people who you are meeting are nervous and cautious and you are coming on too strong.


----------



## Cynthia

Andy1001 said:


> Lila I say this gently. Stop trying so hard.
> Again gently, while you are being the “funny one” at a meet up, the people who you are meeting are nervous and cautious and you are coming on too strong.


This makes sense, Lila. When people are unsure of themselves and trying to acclimate to a situation, they may feel intimidated by how bright and sure of yourself you appear to be.


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## Lila

lifeistooshort said:


> Take up cycling and join a club. I'm serious....it's 90 percent men and all of the single ones are looking. I know a lot of couples who met that way, and a shocking number are comparatively aged. It draws a predominantly 40 and up crowd with a few 30 somethings. I don't know anyone in the bike club with a large age difference.
> 
> It's a blast, but also a time consuming hobby and it's a lot of time to spend together. I met my guy the 1st day I showed up to a club, and a few more had expressed interest before the guy I'm seeing made clear he was there <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
> 
> Plus, all athletic hobbies are good for you.
> 
> I have a running buddy who is 51 and met his 53 year old gf through a meetup group. He says it saved him after his divorce.....says he would've been home on his couch every night. They still go to the group together.


I know you are totally right about the athletic activities being a hot bed for single guys. We have a huge biking group where I live. Unfortunately I have orhopaedic issues that prevent me from doing that sort of biking. I can take leisurely bike rides on my vintage cruiser (think 1960s beach bike) but that's about it. Dang my back. 




Elizabeth001 said:


> @Lila is my sister from another mister. We are in the same place.
> 
> Lila... STOP LOOKING. That’s your answer. Live your life and feel your best. If it was meant to be, it will find you!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Looking is probably a bit of a misnomer. I'm not actively looking but I am putting myself in environments where there could be potential, if that makes sense. 




Andy1001 said:


> Lila I say this gently. Stop trying so hard.
> Again gently, while you are being the “funny one” at a meet up, the people who you are meeting are nervous and cautious and you are coming on too strong.





Cynthia said:


> This makes sense, Lila. When people are unsure of themselves and trying to acclimate to a situation, they may feel intimidated by how bright and sure of yourself you appear to be.


 @Cynthia and @Andy1001. Please clarify. I get told to be me but when I am, I get told to "stop trying too hard".


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## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> Lila I say this gently. Stop trying so hard.
> Again gently, while you are being the “funny one” at a meet up, the people who you are meeting are nervous and cautious and you are coming on too strong.


The problem with being amazing and having a scientific mind is, how to be yourself?


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> I know you are totally right about the athletic activities being a hot bed for single guys. We have a huge biking group where I live. Unfortunately I have orhopaedic issues that prevent me from doing that sort of biking. I can take leisurely bike rides on my vintage cruiser (think 1960s beach bike) but that's about it. Dang my back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking is probably a bit of a misnomer. I'm not actively looking but I am putting myself in environments where there could be potential, if that makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Cynthia and @Andy1001. Please clarify. I get told to be me but when I am, I get told to "stop trying too hard".





ConanHub said:


> The problem with being amazing and having a scientific mind is, how to be yourself?


Yup.


----------



## Lila

ConanHub said:


> The problem with being amazing and having a scientific mind is, how to be yourself?


What does this mean?


----------



## Cynthia

Lila said:


> @Cynthia and @Andy1001. Please clarify. I get told to be me but when I am, I get told to "stop trying too hard".


Of course you need to be yourself, but there are many aspects to your personality. You don't need to let them all out in the first meeting(s). Spend more time listening and asking questions to get to know people and less time being the entertainer. There is nothing wrong with that part of your personality, but there is a time and place for the kind of enthusiasm that you are telling us about; an initial meeting or even the first few times you meet with someone will seem that you are coming on too strong. Seek connection by asking questions and sharing about the same amount that the other person shared. If the conversation/interaction is unbalanced, people will seek balance either by retreating or by meeting your energy. So far it doesn't look like people are meeting your energy, so it may be time to back off a bit and put less energy into the encounters and to seek to draw people out more.


----------



## Lila

Cynthia said:


> Of course you need to be yourself, but there are many aspects to your personality. You don't need to let them all out in the first meeting(s). Spend more time listening and asking questions to get to know people and less time being the entertainer. There is nothing wrong with that part of your personality, but there is a time and place for the kind of enthusiasm that you are telling us about; an initial meeting or even the first few times you meet with someone will seem that you are coming on too strong. Seek connection by asking questions and sharing about the same amount that the other person shared. If the conversation/interaction is unbalanced, people will seek balance either by retreating or by meeting your energy. So far it doesn't look like people are meeting your energy, so it may be time to back off a bit and put less energy into the encounters and to seek to draw people out more.


Okay just to be clear, I said I kept the conversations going. I asked questions but when someone asked me a question, I answered in my normal fun way. Yes, my "stories" (people asked me about my travels, my kid, my crazy work) can be entertaining but I don't see myself as an entertainer. I just find some of the **** that happens to me to be funny. 

You are probably right about bringing down the energy levels to the environment and my surroundings.


----------



## Cynthia

Lila said:


> Okay just to be clear, I said I kept the conversations going. I asked questions but when someone asked me a question, I answered in my normal fun way. Yes, my "stories" (people asked me about my travels, my kid, my crazy work) can be entertaining but I don't see myself as an entertainer. I just find some of the **** that happens to me to be funny.
> 
> You are probably right about bringing down the energy levels to the environment and my surroundings.


You sound very entertaining to me. 
The conversation doesn't have to keep rolling. Can you think about how the other people at the table of five were interacting with each other? Rather than thinking about why you didn't connect, can you see how the others did connect? What was their interaction like?

Was a there a particular man that you were interested in that was at your table? If you were not particularly interested in either man, but were hoping that someone would connect with you, that could also hinder connection.


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## Andy1001

@Lila I feel very uncomfortable giving dating advice to women. The reason for this is when I was dating it was with the sole purpose of getting my date into bed, and I know that this behavior is frowned upon by a lot of people, especially the female members of tam.I also know that you refuse to sleep with anyone unless you’re in an exclusive relationship.
However, I’ll try and explain this situation that you found yourself in like this. 
You’ve probably heard the term “wingman” before. I have often been approached by women asking me would I be interested in meeting one or other of their friends, this would usually but not always be in nightclubs or bars. I was never interested but sometimes I would find the wingman very attractive and between that and her confidence in approaching me in the first place I might find her irresistible. So I would make my play on her. 
However the guys who you are meeting at these events are not as confident as young Andy was, and being the one who’s getting the most laughs and keeping the conversation flowing can backfire as what happened here imo. 
They don’t understand why someone as confident, funny and (I’ve seen the photos lol) downright sexy is doing at one of these shindigs. 
Be as funny as you want while on a date or in a one on one situation but in the initial group meeting environment try and tone it down a little.


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> What does this mean?





Andy1001 said:


> @Lila I feel very uncomfortable giving dating advice to women. The reason for this is when I was dating it was with the sole purpose of getting my date into bed, and I know that this behavior is frowned upon by a lot of people, especially the female members of tam.I also know that you refuse to sleep with anyone unless you’re in an exclusive relationship.
> However, I’ll try and explain this situation that you found yourself in like this.
> You’ve probably heard the term “wingman” before. I have often been approached by women asking me would I be interested in meeting one or other of their friends, this would usually but not always be in nightclubs or bars. I was never interested but sometimes I would find the wingman very attractive and between that and her confidence in approaching me in the first place I might find her irresistible. So I would make my play on her.
> However the guys who you are meeting at these events are not as confident as young Andy was, and being the one who’s getting the most laughs and keeping the conversation flowing can backfire as what happened here imo.
> They don’t understand why someone as confident, funny and (I’ve seen the photos lol) downright sexy is doing at one of these shindigs.
> Be as funny as you want while on a date or in a one on one situation but in the initial group meeting environment try and tone it down a little.


Some of this. I also think you might be a little high calibre/quality compared to the group you were with.

I think your amazing attitude would probably render different results in an activity/hobby group like the cyclist group that lifeistooshort mentioned.

I also believe you should be you for your own satisfaction alone. You can't help but take note of results because you have a scientific mind. Regardless, your only goal in being unapologetically, unrestrained and fully you should be simply for your own satisfaction.

I attract a lot of people just by being me and I piss off a lot as well.

Sometimes I do both and the pissed off folks are attracted as well.

Unfortunately or maybe wonderfully, living as big as you are is messy with some unpredictable results.

I know from other conversations here that you have a very core desire for a mate/partner/lover.

I think that is good and solid but that desire needs to be kept in a safe place inside until a man has won enough trust and respect from you to feel safe enough with that treasure to be revealed to him in any way.

I think you should live as openly and strongly as you are. There is no reason to be smaller than the amazing person you are capable of being. You should be that person simply because that is you. Don't have any thought about what being you might result in besides the freedom from restraint and living smaller than you are capable of.

You don't fit in possibly any of the little boxes you have been looking in, that sections of society seem successful and content with. I think you are too much good to try and compromise yourself to fit so be you and enjoy the hell out of it!

I don't know for certain, but I highly suspect, being unapologetically you will eventually lead to a worthy mate and immediately be satisfying to you on a personal level.

I don't fit in boxes and have always disconcerted and pissed people off.

Everytime I have tried to play like the other kids, life hasn't gone good for me or anyone else around me.

I might be off but you might be similar.

Maybe I'm blathering. Anyway, it seems you are growing.:smile2:


----------



## Cynthia

In interpersonal communication, we can communicate differently depending upon the situation. We should always be true to ourselves, but that doesn't mean expressing ourselves the same way in all situations. In order to communicate effectively, we must be aware of the circumstances, the people we are communicating with, and be self aware. I find that I tend to be spontaneous in my communication, but sometimes it is better to slow down and think before I speak; making sure to communicate exactly what I want the other person to understand and presenting myself in the manner I want to be perceived.

People may misinterpret actions and words, so it's important to consider exactly what we are saying and presenting so we are not misunderstood. Taking a more relaxed approach while assessing a situation can be helpful in understanding others and situations as well as expressing oneself in a manner that will be properly understood.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

What I loved about Cindy was I was never in a position that I had to guess who she was... she was herself from the first time we met and I loved the honesty that was presented in her incredibly outgoing way (I'm the more quiet one if you haven't guessed). :wink2:

It was a trust I needed to confirm the love that was healthy for us both.

Cynthia has a point about knowing your audience, but there has to be some consistency with each group as well... this is where it becomes important to be you naturally each time.

Try not to second-guess yourself, don't be afraid of these missed connections, they are doing you a favor by identifying the right friendship groups, weeding out the casuals, and vetting honesty (for and in yourself) at the same time... keep on keepin' on being who you are.

Somebody out there is paying attention... consistency of your natural spirit is your friend.

Be you without fear.


----------



## Lila

For those wondering, the 60 year old and I are not dating. He's not interested (his girlfriends / ex wife are all beautiful) and I accept that.

It's been a fun social holiday season but it's back to normal. I'm in hibernation mode. Maybe I'll take up scrapbooking again. I keep saying I'm going to get all of my digital pictures printed but that usually lasts a day and I'm bored.


----------



## Cynthia

Lila said:


> For those wondering, the 60 year old and I are not dating. He's not interested (his girlfriends / ex wife are all beautiful) and I accept that.


What on earth? Are you saying that you aren't beautiful enough? Did he tell you that?


----------



## FeministInPink

Cynthia said:


> What on earth? Are you saying that you aren't beautiful enough? Did he tell you that?


 @Lila

And if he DID say this, 1) he's a boor, and 2) you can do SOOO much better.

Any man who says he won't date a woman because she isn't beautiful enough is a walking piece of human excrement. He's not attracted to you, or you're not his type? Fine, we all have our physical preferences. But to tell you that you are not beautiful enough is a real **** move, and no guy who says that is worth your time.


----------



## Blondilocks

Cynthia said:


> What on earth? Are you saying that you aren't beautiful enough? Did he tell you that?


I doubt that is what he said. I think Lila went there in her head.

BUT; if he did say that, I'm filing my nails to a point and taking off my earrings! No one disses our Lila!!


----------



## Lila

Cynthia said:


> What on earth? Are you saying that you aren't beautiful enough? Did he tell you that?





FeministInPink said:


> @Lila
> 
> And if he DID say this, 1) he's a boor, and 2) you can do SOOO much better.
> 
> Any man who says he won't date a woman because she isn't beautiful enough is a walking piece of human excrement. He's not attracted to you, or you're not his type? Fine, we all have our physical preferences. But to tell you that you are not beautiful enough is a real **** move, and no guy who says that is worth your time.


Oh no, no, no. Let me clear the confusion up. He never said anything like that. He's a VERY kind and polite person. I do think he's somewhat of a player and he's dating around (perfectly acceptable). I know someone who's known him for years. He told me about the beautiful exes.


----------



## Lila

Blondilocks said:


> Cynthia said:
> 
> 
> 
> What on earth? Are you saying that you aren't beautiful enough? Did he tell you that?
> 
> 
> 
> *I doubt that is what he said. I think Lila went there in her head.*
> 
> BUT; if he did say that, I'm filing my nails to a point and taking off my earrings! No one disses our Lila!!
Click to expand...

Yes to the bolded. I'm sure I don't fit his standard type physically based on what I know about him. But he does seem to enjoy my company. That's why I said we are staying friends.


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## FeministInPink

Hey, y'all, I started a new thread for 2020, if y'all want to take the convo over there.

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-...ew-singles-tam-2020-edition.html#post20061045
@Lila, you want to close this thread to new posts so we don't have simultaneous threads going?


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## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> Hey, y'all, I started a new thread for 2020, if y'all want to take the convo over there.
> 
> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-...ew-singles-tam-2020-edition.html#post20061045
> 
> @Lila, you want to close this thread to new posts so we don't have simultaneous threads going?


Sure. I'll take care of it now.


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