# The Big Announcement



## angelpixie

So today, less than an hour before I have to leave work, bike up to the repair shop, dump more than a paycheck on repairs and then race to pick up DS from camp, all within a half hour, I get a text from Chinless. 'Please read your email. If there's anything I can do to help you get DS from camp because of your car, let me know.' 

First of all, a little backstory. When I first moved out (the two-year anniversary of which is today), there was a period of time when I dreaded the phrase 'Can I talk to you a minute?' It never turned out well. Never. That's kind of the way I'm feeling about 'Please check/read your email.' And he's only ever nice when he's about to do something crappy.

I checked. It was to tell me that he and posGF are getting married. In a few years. That they already talked to DS about it, and he had a few concerns. 

1. He doesn't want any siblings. No problem. She never wants kids, and Ex was done after DS and got a V. 

2. He doesn't want to have to call her mom or step-mom. No problem. She told him her role, as she sees it, is Caregiver/Friend. She doesn't want to be a step-mom, and he can just introduce the two of them as Dad and [posGF]. 

3. He's worried about me. This, dear reader, is the heart of the matter. Of course I don't want to burden my son with any residual feelings that come up with this. Obviously. But I'd have to be a stone for them not to come up. And I really don't feel like I owe them my blessing. No fvcking way. But the way the email was written made it clear that DS would only be OK with it if I could keep my sh!t together, and if I could do that, they could all live happily ever after. DS is worried about me being hurt if they have fun together, that I'll worry that he's replacing me with posGF. And yeah, that crosses my mind from time to time, I'll be honest. 

He then wrote some blather about how he and posGF respect my role as DS' mom and are not trying to do anything to usurp that. W/E Yeah. Respect is totally what I feel from them.   

Then he ended it by telling me I would do a lot to relieve DS' anxiety by telling him I'm OK and that our relationship will be OK. And btw, when can Ex pick him up from me?

Wow. Thanks for giving me some time to process this. While I'm at work. On the schedule I outlined above. 

I had a wobble. But thankfully, had my close friends skyping me through it. By the time I picked DS up, I was very calm. Ex texted that they were in town and we could meet at a nearby drug store. They weren't in the car, so I thought I could avoid them. But as I was walking DS to the door, they came out. I could tell they were watching me very closely. I told Ex I finally found out how late I'd be able to watch DS for him on Saturday, apologized for it taking so long to get the info. Gave DS more hugs and kisses, he and I cracked a couple jokes and I walked away. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw them looking at each other like 'WTF?' Maybe he thought I didn't read it yet. I gave him no indication that I did.

I don't want to prolong any distress that DS is going through, but honestly, I didn't see any. We chatted about his first day at camp, we talked about what was fixed on the car, and that was all we had time for. When I called to tell him good-night, we did the whole conversation in silly accents. Totally relaxed.

It feels weird. Immediately after reading about it, I started to get mind movies, wondering how this decision to marry came about -- was it as romantic as when he proposed to me? But it's like the movies never came into focus. They were dim and far away. My mind just isn't going there. 

He told me, DS, and his mom that he was not remarrying ever. Even after he started dating the Trampire. It's puzzling to me. Why the big announcement when it's not even supposedly happening for a few years? Why tell DS when his life isn't going to be changing in any way due to this? She's already living there as if she's mistress (fnar fnar) of the house, so it's only a matter of legal recognition at this point. 

It just feels very manipulative. Like something's up. He's a drama queen, anyone who's followed my story knows that. And he himself called her an attention wh0re, before she became god's gift to the world. I know he loves doing things to get a reaction from me. I even saw that when my dad was in town last month.

My own lack of reaction kind of surprises me. Aside from that wobble immediately upon reading the email, I haven't felt much of anything the rest of the day. I'm not envious of her. Hellz no. Just kind of shaking my head. I don't wish them success. I don't wish them failure. I just don't wish them anything. I owe them nothing. I want DS to be happy, loved and well-cared-for when he's there. That's my only concern. 

As it so happened, I read one of my old, old threads last night. I saw how awful he was and how manipulative, particularly when it came to posGF. I was in bad shape then. I can tell that a lot of growth has come about since then. I feel like I want to take control of how and when I talk to DS about it. I don't want to be forced into a quick discussion in the car on the way to drop him off. This is important. I want to give it the time it deserves. He's back with me starting tomorrow, so we'll probably talk then. And if it's true that DS is only really worried about my reaction, he won't be the worse for putting off the talk, as long as he sees I'm OK. Which I am. 

So is this what healing feels like? Near indifference? I guess that's what we all tell ourselves and each other that we're shooting for. It just feels very weird.


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## mablenc

In sorry  sending viral hugs and icecream your way, unless you want real ones. PM me if you do.

Also, how old is your son? I think it's ok that they see emotion in us occasionally. Your not made out of stone.


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## Dollystanford

You know angelface, if this actually happens I'll eat my hat. 

And you know as well as I do (actually more ha ha) that marriage to Chinless ain't all it's cracked up to be. Which is probably why you're fairly indifferent about it. All the same old behaviours will be there but they'll be focused on her now and she'll get the shock of her life the first time she really comes up against Mr Narcissistic and his mememe bullsh*t. They are still in happy honeymoon mode - that can even last a few years so maybe it will happen. But then it's all downhill from there and you know it

I mean she's hooked herself such a catch! Unemployed, on disability for a fake illness, not much earning potential and an emotionally retarded drama queen. Way to go trampire!

They clearly expected a reaction out of you and you didn't give them what they wanted. So I thumb my nose and flick a v-sign in their general direction and thank god someone else has to deal with him now. You can watch amused from the sidelines as it all implodes.


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## Holland

Why did they tell your son now if they aren't planning on marrying for a few years? I know you can't answer for your ex but my oh my that is an odd thing to do.


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## 2ntnuf

I just want to say that you are one of the most wonderful women deserving utmost respect that I know. Any man would be well blessed to have your love. 

He sucks, period. 

You don't know how good I would feel to know you found deep satisfying love again. You deserve it. 

He sucks. Wait, did I say that already? That's okay. It's worth repeating.


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## angelpixie

Thanks for the nice words, all. Mablenc -- my son is 10. He has seen me be emotional, but I don't want him taking it on himself.


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## hope4family

Before my then wife left "our home". She asked if I would be upset if she remarried within 2 years. (But she wasn't cheating on me.) I fully expect it to happen within that frame of time if not sooner. 

That's my way of saying I empathize with you. The life you have now, I think is still better then the life you had while married.


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## LovesHerMan

You handled this beautifully, Angel! You are right to discuss this with your son when things are calm and on your own terms. It will be a process, and not a single discussion. Chinless loves playing amateur psychologist, and I am so glad that you refused to be sucked into his little game.


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## vi_bride04

Pfffffffft. 

What a jerk. Why tell DS at all if its not for a few years? 

I think he was just trying to get some sort of reaction out of you and nothing more. Some sort of power/control thing maybe. You know him well enough to know his motives and intentions are not what they seem. 

Indifference is nice though, isn't it?


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## SadSamIAm

I feel bad for you, but I think you handled it beautifully. I bet your 'lack' of reaction is playing mind movies with your ex. He was expecting your anger and devastation and you gave him nothing. Exactly what he deserves.

The only reason I could think that he would tell your son that he is getting married is if he is somewhat ashamed of being 'shacked up'. Even in this day of age, it is more appropriate to be engaged and living together instead of just being 'shacked up'.


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## jpr

I agree with VI....

Chinless is always stirring up something. ...total Drama Queen. 

He is probably jealous because you just bought a new house and are moving forward in a positive direction, while he remains the same worthless sack of poo he always has been. He hasn't accomplished anything since you guys split up....whereas you have grown so much.

Chinless is pathetic. 

So what? So you are planning on getting married in 2 years, Chinless. Big whoop.  Who gives a flyin' flubnub??? 

Keep on keepin' on, Angel.


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## hope4family

Well put jpr. 

To me, a grown adult saying that they are getting married in two years is the same as saying were doing a trial separation. 

Relationship suicide IMO. 1 year is one thing.... But in my mind, engagement should be something you wanna get over with. I'm weird though.


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## vi_bride04

Just one quick question - are they actually engaged or just saying they are getting married in a few years...like a "oh we are going to get married someday!!!" teenager babble speak...?


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## Mavash.

He so saw this going differently in his head. LMAO!


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## angelpixie

I don't know if it's an official 'engagement,' Vi. I was so intent on just being blasé when I saw them yesterday, that I didn't look for a ring. He talked about it in the email like it's a definite thing, not just something they're thinking about. I wouldn't be surprised if they refer to each other as 'engaged' and 'fiance'/'fiancee'. She's never been married before, so she may go for the whole shebang. OTOH, she's a bit of a hipster, so she may be too bored by all of that, who knows? Maybe if she wears a dress made of recycled fiber and they eat vegan at the reception, she'll be into it.  

There have actually been soooooo many dramas with Chinless that I'd forgotten about the entire homeschooling drama, that came before the 'showing up at my house to introduce gf to my dad' drama. I think that, even though we're divorced, I'm still the main person for him to mindfvck with, and someone with his issues has to have someone. She doesn't have an ex around -- he left town, and when he did come back for a while, was trying to be friends with them and just looked weak and pathetic, considering she was cheating on him when she and Chinless first started their EA, and Chinless was supposedly helping him when she broke up with him rather callously. I lost all respect for him at that point. So, better that it's put on me than on DS. 

I told one of my best friends (who's also a co-worker) today, and she was reminding me of how many times he's done this. (She's known us since we moved here 12 years ago as newlyweds) It's kind of amazing how much I'd forgotten. For example, when he was in finishing his undergrad degree, and then in grad school, right up to the time I moved out, _every two weeks_ he had a mini-breakdown and wanted to drop out. Literally a mental breakdown. And there were breakdowns about other things in-between those, like his relationships with his friends, or every time he had to write a paper. And I pulled him out of it every single time. Living with him was so incredibly toxic. Part of it was my co-dependence, I know, but part of it really was a lack of knowledge of what was really wrong with him. I thought it was just depression and that he might try to hurt himself if he went too far down. I kept thinking that if we stuck it out, and he kept going to doctors and IC, we'd eventually find THE pill or THE therapy. Now I know that's not even possible for him, unless he makes a huge change in direction.

That's one of the reasons I always recommend people research and read up on what's going on with their situations. The knowledge of what's REALLY behind what he does has been immeasurably helpful.

My gratitude at not living in that nightmare anymore is just bottomless.


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## TBT

You're handling things well Angel.Your mention of all the drama Chinless has caused has me thinking about when you start a relationship with a decent and caring man,and believe me you will meet someone.How much drama will he cause when he has to deal with an actual real man? I don't think he will be able to handle things near as well as you.You-positve growth and change.:smthumbup: Him-not so much,if at all.


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## CEL

I'm not a nice guy in fact I am probably a bad man. I am okay with this. That being said I will give you how I would feel.

1. Anger the he is still screwing with me.

2. Hope that the relationship dies a painful death with her cheating on him and nasty things happening to his genitals.

3. Pissed that he is using my son to manipulate me.

4. A side order of loathing for the fact that he is till the same pond scum that I married.


My hopes are with you sounds like the marriage was a nasty piece of work. You are most assuredly better without him in your life. You are right you owe him nothing and your son will be fine with whatever you feel. Just be honest with yourself if you don't like the idea of them getting married be honest with your son. One of the worst things my parents ever did to me "that's saying a lot by the way" was the constant lies, honestly breeds love and understanding I would not go along to get along in this situation. My hopes are with ya.


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## angelpixie

Thanks again, everybody. It's so great knowing you all have my back. And, CEL, between your avi and what you said, you sound like my avenging angel. The remark about his genitals totally made me lol. :smthumbup: 

For those who don't already know, Tuesday night is when DS and I go to our YWCA for DV support groups (the kids' one is mainly just playing and learning problem solving, how to solve disputes, etc.). Ex dropped him off there and I met up with him after I got off work. We all eat dinner together before group, so we didn't have much time to talk. But after the women's group was done, I went up to the kids' area to get him. They'd gotten a wooden dollhouse donated, it had some damage. Last week, he worked hard trying to fix it, and was very proud of it, and this week wanted to show me his work. For a 10 year old, he did a great job.  Above the door was spelled out a name. It happens to be the street his school is on. He pointed at it and said "See that? That's Trampire's last name. I put that up there for her!" *big smile* I was a bit taken aback, and blurted out "No, that's not her name, it's [Slagwh0re], remember?" "Oh, yeah, that's right, she used to live on this _street_." (and gives her address from before she went to France) Sheezus. I don't want to be bombarded by her all the damned time. WTF, DS? Why are you naming things after her?

So, as we're getting into the car, he excitedly asks if I've heard that Chinless and Trampire are engaged. I told him that his dad emailed me yesterday and told me. DS told me that he gave her a ring. An amethyst, so not an expensive diamond, and perhaps wouldn't even have looked like an engagement ring if I'd seen it yesterday, I don't know. (Angelpixie and Trampire Fun Facts: our birthdays are two days apart, so we share the same birthstone -- and her last name is the English translation of my Polish maiden name. Neat, huh?) I told him his dad told me they weren't getting married for a few years, and he said that that's what Chinless told him: 2015 or 2016. He asked me how I felt about it - was I happy for Dad? Crap. He doesn't understand the concept of indifference, so I'm either happy, sad, or angry. I just said "I'm not angry, I'm not sad, I'm..." "You just don't feel much of anything about it?" "Yeah" (whew) 

I told DS that in his email, his dad relayed DS' worry about how I'd take it. I told him he didn't have to worry about me, I'm fine, and that I knew he worried that I'd feel like he was replacing me with Trampire (and how do you think I feel after the dollhouse incident just several minutes before?!). He immediately started to get a little upset and said "But I'm not!" I told him I knew he _worried_ about that. but that I knew Trampire wasn't going to be a mom to him. Honestly, I don't really feel better. I feel like I was being tested somehow. And I felt kind of disappointed in DS, too. I know he's only 10, but by the time I was 10, I was aware and empathetic enough to realize that it would hurt one of my parents a whole hell of a lot to see the other one set up a household with another person, and pull the kids into it, too. DS doesn't seem to get that. He worries that I'll be hurt...but it's like it's because there's something wrong with _me_, not because I was treated shabbily by my (now former) spouse -- which is exactly how Chinless has treated me through this entire split.

I just know I'm going to be constantly getting this 'engagement' stuff shoved down my throat. And as several of us have discussed before, we as BS's are not allowed to speak of what happened to _make_ us BS's without being threatened with violating the parenting agreement clause regarding bad-mouthing the WS. So, when asked if I'm happy for his Dad, I'm not allowed to say that I'd have been happier if his father hadn't cheated on me and had instead worked on keeping DS' family together. That's just not done, you see. 

Sorry, I'm venting.


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## CEL

angelpixie said:


> Thanks again, everybody. It's so great knowing you all have my back. And, CEL, between your avi and what you said, you sound like my avenging angel. The remark about his genitals totally made me lol. :smthumbup:
> 
> For those who don't already know, Tuesday night is when DS and I go to our YWCA for DV support groups (the kids' one is mainly just playing and learning problem solving, how to solve disputes, etc.). Ex dropped him off there and I met up with him after I got off work. We all eat dinner together before group, so we didn't have much time to talk. But after the women's group was done, I went up to the kids' area to get him. They'd gotten a wooden dollhouse donated, it had some damage. Last week, he worked hard trying to fix it, and was very proud of it, and this week wanted to show me his work. For a 10 year old, he did a great job.  Above the door was spelled out a name. It happens to be the street his school is on. He pointed at it and said "See that? That's Trampire's last name. I put that up there for her!" *big smile* I was a bit taken aback, and blurted out "No, that's not her name, it's [Slagwh0re], remember?" "Oh, yeah, that's right, she used to live on this _street_." (and gives her address from before she went to France) Sheezus. I don't want to be bombarded by her all the damned time. WTF, DS? Why are you naming things after her?
> 
> So, as we're getting into the car, he excitedly asks if I've heard that Chinless and Trampire are engaged. I told him that his dad emailed me yesterday and told me. DS told me that he gave her a ring. An amethyst, so not an expensive diamond, and perhaps wouldn't even have looked like an engagement ring if I'd seen it yesterday, I don't know. (Angelpixie and Trampire Fun Facts: our birthdays are two days apart, so we share the same birthstone -- and her last name is the English translation of my Polish maiden name. Neat, huh?) I told him his dad told me they weren't getting married for a few years, and he said that that's what Chinless told him: 2015 or 2016. He asked me how I felt about it - was I happy for Dad? Crap. He doesn't understand the concept of indifference, so I'm either happy, sad, or angry. I just said "I'm not angry, I'm not sad, I'm..." "You just don't feel much of anything about it?" "Yeah" (whew)
> 
> I told DS that in his email, his dad relayed DS' worry about how I'd take it. I told him he didn't have to worry about me, I'm fine, and that I knew he worried that I'd feel like he was replacing me with Trampire (and how do you think I feel after the dollhouse incident just several minutes before?!). He immediately started to get a little upset and said "But I'm not!" I told him I knew he _worried_ about that. but that I knew Trampire wasn't going to be a mom to him. Honestly, I don't really feel better. I feel like I was being tested somehow. And I felt kind of disappointed in DS, too. I know he's only 10, but by the time I was 10, I was aware and empathetic enough to realize that it would hurt one of my parents a whole hell of a lot to see the other one set up a household with another person, and pull the kids into it, too. DS doesn't seem to get that. He worries that I'll be hurt...but it's like it's because there's something wrong with _me_, not because I was treated shabbily by my (now former) spouse -- which is exactly how Chinless has treated me through this entire split.
> 
> I just know I'm going to be constantly getting this 'engagement' stuff shoved down my throat. And as several of us have discussed before, we as BS's are not allowed to speak of what happened to _make_ us BS's without being threatened with violating the parenting agreement clause regarding bad-mouthing the WS. So, when asked if I'm happy for his Dad, I'm not allowed to say that I'd have been happier if his father hadn't cheated on me and had instead worked on keeping DS' family together. That's just not done, you see.
> 
> Sorry, I'm venting.


LOL they are just so many good sarcastic comments I just HAVE to take it apart. I am the child of a women who has had 7 marriages and many many boyfriends so I will give my two cents.



angelpixie said:


> For those who don't already know, Tuesday night is when DS and I go to our YWCA for DV support groups (the kids' one is mainly just playing and learning problem solving, how to solve disputes, etc.). Ex dropped him off there and I met up with him after I got off work. We all eat dinner together before group, so we didn't have much time to talk. But after the women's group was done, I went up to the kids' area to get him. They'd gotten a wooden dollhouse donated, it had some damage. Last week, he worked hard trying to fix it, and was very proud of it, and this week wanted to show me his work. For a 10 year old, he did a great job.  Above the door was spelled out a name. It happens to be the street his school is on. He pointed at it and said "See that? That's Trampire's last name. I put that up there for her!" *big smile* I was a bit taken aback, and blurted out "No, that's not her name, it's [Slagwh0re], remember?" "Oh, yeah, that's right, she used to live on this _street_." (and gives her address from before she went to France) Sheezus. I don't want to be bombarded by her all the damned time. WTF, DS? Why are you naming things after her?


Wow what a kick in the teeth that had to be. Well look at it this way I have always thought dentures were sexy . My guess he slvtty mc hotpants is busy trying to win him over and this is residual stuff. He thinks of her as a cool friend at that age it will go away soon and probably not develop beyond that. You are mom therefore you don't' get things named after you instead you get the need stuff. When he is scared he wants you. When he is hurt he wants you. When school is hard he wants you. When he is in need he will may talk about her but like most cool friends they are not really relevant at that age. Still had to hurt like hell tho. Sorry about that my guess is that because you can't express your anger at them he things you are cool about it and so well you are supposed to be nice to friends of the family plus you know king slime is working overtime on that.



angelpixie said:


> So, as we're getting into the car, he excitedly asks if I've heard that Chinless and Trampire are engaged. I told him that his dad emailed me yesterday and told me. DS told me that he gave her a ring. An amethyst, so not an expensive diamond, and perhaps wouldn't even have looked like an engagement ring if I'd seen it yesterday, I don't know. (Angelpixie and Trampire Fun Facts: our birthdays are two days apart, so we share the same birthstone -- and her last name is the English translation of my Polish maiden name. Neat, huh?) I told him his dad told me they weren't getting married for a few years, and he said that that's what Chinless told him: 2015 or 2016. He asked me how I felt about it - was I happy for Dad? Crap. He doesn't understand the concept of indifference, so I'm either happy, sad, or angry. I just said "I'm not angry, I'm not sad, I'm..." "You just don't feel much of anything about it?" "Yeah" (whew)


This is just kids being excited because he thinks that is what he is supposed to be plus thinking he has juicy gossip. And the birthday thing is weird sounds like your pea brain ex decided to make sure that way he could remember the right day and stone. Hey my sister who has been married 4 times well 3 of them were named Jeff. I think it was so she did not yell a weird name in bed but yeah I am weird. I think you did great with the whole I don't care sounds much better than I hope she gets a nasty and sometimes contagious socially unacceptable disease where she has to be shipped to an island with only broccoli to eat "I hate broccoli".



angelpixie said:


> I told DS that in his email, his dad relayed DS' worry about how I'd take it. I told him he didn't have to worry about me, I'm fine, and that I knew he worried that I'd feel like he was replacing me with Trampire (and how do you think I feel after the dollhouse incident just several minutes before?!). He immediately started to get a little upset and said "But I'm not!" I told him I knew he _worried_ about that. but that I knew Trampire wasn't going to be a mom to him. Honestly, I don't really feel better. I feel like I was being tested somehow. And I felt kind of disappointed in DS, too. I know he's only 10, but by the time I was 10, I was aware and empathetic enough to realize that it would hurt one of my parents a whole hell of a lot to see the other one set up a household with another person, and pull the kids into it, too. DS doesn't seem to get that. He worries that I'll be hurt...but it's like it's because there's something wrong with _me_, not because I was treated shabbily by my (now former) spouse -- which is exactly how Chinless has treated me through this entire split.


I think you are thinking this thing to much. He knows you are hurting maybe he does not know why but he knows. I knew when my parents where at odds and that my mom was upset but I was too young to understand that her husband was beating her or that she was sad because his son was beating me. So I was just upset. His brain does not yet really reach those connections of complexity he can draw a relationship between his actions and you being upset or even a simple action his dads but you are talking really really complex emotional interaction dealing with many emotions he does not have yet. He knows he would not like to be replaced so he gets that. But the fact that he your ex may marry again and that this causes you pain he is just not there yet. Which is no bad thing kids mature at different rates in these things. You were being tested he was testing to see if you would get upset about the engagement for him it is a puzzle of why does mom seem sad or angry sometimes. So he will push it and then back off he will go between wanting to know and just not wanting to talk about it.



angelpixie said:


> I just know I'm going to be constantly getting this 'engagement' stuff shoved down my throat. And as several of us have discussed before, we as BS's are not allowed to speak of what happened to _make_ us BS's without being threatened with violating the parenting agreement clause regarding bad-mouthing the WS. So, when asked if I'm happy for his Dad, I'm not allowed to say that I'd have been happier if his father hadn't cheated on me and had instead worked on keeping DS' family together. That's just not done, you see.
> 
> Sorry, I'm venting.


You will only have as much of it as you want to deal with. When it comes up from your son just change the subject if you don't want to talk about it. It is 2 YEARS away your son is going to lose interest in a week. As for you scum swilling ex and his nasty mc nasty you don't need to deal with anything from them unless it is to you or your sons benefit. So ignore them they are worthless sacks of flesh who do no doubt deserve each other and she will no doubt get something even the clinic can't cure  You on the other hand are a beautiful women with the rest of your life ahead of you and many many handsome prospects competing for you precious attention.  Keep venting we got your back and friends like talking errr writing to friends.


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## angelpixie

Thank you, those comments were totally worth the sidebars. :smthumbup:

"slvtty mc hotpants" 

OK, this may be the Old Rasputin talking, but I'm seriously crushing on you right now. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



I know I shouldn't really blame DS for not understanding. My IC keeps reminding me that I was put in a position I shouldn't have been in when I was DS' age, so it's hard for me to know what 'normal' 10 year old kids know and don't know. I'm aware of this, so I don't ever criticize DS when he does things like this that bother me.


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## Pbartender

Have you considered...

All the exciting things you've been doing with DS renovating and decorating a new home... Setting a brand new bedroom for him in his own style... Taking him out on trips for dancing and protests and festivals... And all sorts of other things, big and small, as you start a new life for you and him.

Imagine the exciting stories he's been telling to Chinless and Chinstrap about the adventures you and he have been having. And I'm sure they've been humoring him and feigning interest and excitement over those stories... to get information on what you and DS have been up to and how you are doing, if nothing else. He likely doesn't realize it may just be an act, thinking that are genuinely friendly with you.

Consider that if they react that way to what he tells them about you, he may expect you to be equally interested and excited to hear about them.

Consider that kids almost always go through a phase when they try to keep the family together. DS may be past that phase, but he may still be trying... hoping? ...to get the three adults in family to like each other and be friends, at least.


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## EnjoliWoman

Aw AP - Sorry it's been a rough week. Ex is still seeing the same woman he started dating about a year into our separation. I found out they were engaged when DD age 6 came home and announced "I'm gonna get to be a flower girl!!!!!" with the biggest grin ever.

About 2-3 years later she tells me coming back from vacation with both of them that ex yelled at GF because she "didn't pack right" and that they didn't speak the whole way home. To GF: Welcome to the world of narcissism. The engagement was broken off because apparently (another treat from DD) they decided they are better off just dating.

Anyway, this is about you. Pb and CEL make great points. I'll just add one. You said when you were 10 you would be aware of hurting feelings... remember even the most empathetic boy isn't as in touch with others feelings as girls are. Females are better at reading facial expressions and emotions genetically. He may just be glad the dust is settling and life will take on a steady normalcy.

She may not get to be last; she for sure gets to be 'next'. Not the greatest position for POSGF to be in.


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## angelpixie

You make great points, Pb and Enjoli. No, I actually haven't thought about what DS tells them. I guess I've always figured they don't talk about what we do together. I've assumed that the dismissive way they treat me in person (and DS is there when they do it) is the same way I'm treated if he brings me up. It's subtle, to be sure, so maybe he doesn't pick up on it. I just honestly have no way of knowing. 

I had a long response written out, but it boils down to this. She's there, and whether or not there's anything official, she more or less is his step-mom. She fulfills a role in his home, including things that bring them closer. I've heard about them. He has feelings for her. He's already slipped and called her Mom and referred to them as his parents. She makes his dad happy and they have formed a family. This is what hurts so much. Having that meant more to me than anything.

I can't give him the kind of home that they can. I'm just one person. I work a full-time job. They're two people who are home all day and are free to take him on cool day trips, etc. I'm not sure how much difference he sees between her and me. I honestly don't think it's much. As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that this is the biggest thing about the whole remarriage issue that hurts. Deep down, I've always felt that aside from giving birth to him, there's really truly nothing I give DS that another woman couldn't. My brother is adopted, and my mother loved him as much as me, her biological child -- more, in fact. She could just as easily be the person he goes to when he's sad or hurting or sick or want to share some great news he has. I know that's possible. I feel like this remarriage makes official the thing I've feared more than anything. The total and complete loss of what has always been most important to me. 

I know it hasn't happened yet, and may very well never happen at all. But it's making me face this. I'm not sure what the answer is or how to deal with it. But those feelings are there, and I can't deny them. I don't think Chinless would feel these same feelings if I were to get involved with someone, especially if he's got his own person and they have already established their family together. I don't think Chinless sees me ever being with anyone else, either.


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## Morgiana

Ah AP, I hear you. I think the thing to remember though is that you will never stop being his mama. He is gaining someone else in his life who will be there for him, but she can never get the 10 years that you've already had with him. She is new, and probably catering a bit to him, he may be excited; after all it's a new friend that is probably paying a lot of positive attention to him. But when he's sick or got his feelings hurt or unsure, you are the one he will turn to.

You have nothing to prove to either chinless, her or even your son. You are there for your son and will continue to be. You are a rock for him to rest upon in the turmoil of his little world.

Hugs,
-M


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## nice777guy

angelpixie said:


> You make great points, Pb and Enjoli. No, I actually haven't thought about what DS tells them. I guess I've always figured they don't talk about what we do together. I've assumed that the dismissive way they treat me in person (and DS is there when they do it) is the same way I'm treated if he brings me up. It's subtle, to be sure, so maybe he doesn't pick up on it. I just honestly have no way of knowing.
> 
> I had a long response written out, but it boils down to this. She's there, and whether or not there's anything official, she more or less is his step-mom. She fulfills a role in his home, including things that bring them closer. I've heard about them. He has feelings for her. He's already slipped and called her Mom and referred to them as his parents. She makes his dad happy and they have formed a family. This is what hurts so much. Having that meant more to me than anything.
> 
> I can't give him the kind of home that they can. I'm just one person. I work a full-time job. They're two people who are home all day and are free to take him on cool day trips, etc. I'm not sure how much difference he sees between her and me. I honestly don't think it's much. As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that this is the biggest thing about the whole remarriage issue that hurts. Deep down, I've always felt that aside from giving birth to him, there's really truly nothing I give DS that another woman couldn't. My brother is adopted, and my mother loved him as much as me, her biological child -- more, in fact. She could just as easily be the person he goes to when he's sad or hurting or sick or want to share some great news he has. I know that's possible. I feel like this remarriage makes official the thing I've feared more than anything. The total and complete loss of what has always been most important to me.
> 
> I know it hasn't happened yet, and may very well never happen at all. But it's making me face this. I'm not sure what the answer is or how to deal with it. But those feelings are there, and I can't deny them. I don't think Chinless would feel these same feelings if I were to get involved with someone, especially if he's got his own person and they have already established their family together. I don't think Chinless sees me ever being with anyone else, either.


I really don't like the negative self-talk here, missy. You are his mother. There is a bond there that no one else - regardless of time or money - can EVER come close to matching.

Also - these people are NOT stable. Bottom line - plain and simple. They may at times be able to do more things with DS - but this instability will be more and more of a problem as he gets older. Your job - above all else - is to be the STABLE parent. To have the house he knows will be calm and peaceful when the honeymoon between Chinless and Trampire ends.

One last thing - if they do actually pull this off and end up happy -that's ultimately a good thing for your son. Lousy for you (kind of) - but good for him. That's what I always think about. My Ex's failures or successes still have a big impact on the kids - so I really don't wish her any harm.


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## EnjoliWoman

AP... (HUGS)

You have been there for DS through all of this. A new, interesting person will pique his interest for a bit and will seem fun. I bet if he has a serious problem/conundrum where he needs parental guidance, you will be the one he comes to.

You have, and are, creating memories that are special to the two of you and I believe you do have a bond that is just for the two of you. Yes, he can love her. But it will not be the same love he has for you.


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## angelpixie

I know I will always be DS' mom, but nothing is a certainty for me anymore. I know that feelings change. What if Trampire said she did want to be his step-mom? What if it wasn't Trampire, but a different, better woman? I won't have any choice but to just keep going, right? 

No, I don't wish them failure or turmoil -- for DS' sake. If it wasn't for sharing DS, I would not care if they succeeded or failed, truly. And there's the rub -- to give DS a stable household with them, I have to actually go beyond indifference and wish them success in a relationship built on lies, betrayal, and the death of one of my two most cherished dreams. Granted, the odds of that happening are small, but theoretically, it's what I'm expected to do. 

It all just hurts. I don't want to lose anymore. I want to give DS what he needs to live a happy life, but I wish it didn't hurt so damned much.


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## muskrat

Just reading this thread brings pain to my heart. 
I know this is difficult AP, but DS knows you are his mom. No woman can ever take that from you. One day he will be all grown up and it is you that he will have a bond with. Just keep doing your best for him and he will one day understand your struggles and the sacrifices you made for him. I have yet to meet a person whose mother was an active part of their life and they remembered their step mom more fondly. No woman can ever replace you!!!!


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## CEL

Okay Angel "you okay if I call you that?" Let me tell you a little about myself. My parents divorced when I was a little younger than your son maybe I was about 8. I was able to see my dad on weekends if I was lucky and my mom had a long succession of husbands and boyfriends that came through the door some where nice some where abusive to both me and my mom "she really can pick um". In that time we moved around a lot so I did not always get to see my dad sometimes months would go by before I would see him. My sister would call them dad or some crazy crap like that but I think that was mostly because she had a different dad then me and was always looking for one. So that is some of my stuff now that you have made it through my crap let me give you my opinion of what you have written.



angelpixie said:


> You make great points, Pb and Enjoli. No, I actually haven't thought about what DS tells them. I guess I've always figured they don't talk about what we do together. I've assumed that the dismissive way they treat me in person (and DS is there when they do it) is the same way I'm treated if he brings me up. It's subtle, to be sure, so maybe he doesn't pick up on it. I just honestly have no way of knowing.


You know growing up I can't remember one time that my dad met any of my mom's husbands or boyfriends. My dad would show up and I would go out to his car, then it was our time I rarely ever brought up my moms boy toys as it just did not matter to me. My guess is your son is the same way it probably just does not really matter to him when he is with you maybe he thinks of it but mostly at that age you are so in the moment it just never crosses your mind even now I just never picked up that my dad never wanted or needed to meet the boy toys. At that age I would not of picked up on it either and even if I had it would of just been very momentary and not really accurate. As for scum sucker and the bottom feeding sea slug that he sleeps with that they treat you that way just shows how wackadoodle they are. They have to think badly of you because if they actually face the situation they will have to admit that they have the moral authority of spider crabs in heat and her case probably the facial features.



angelpixie said:


> I had a long response written out, but it boils down to this. She's there, and whether or not there's anything official, she more or less is his step-mom. She fulfills a role in his home, including things that bring them closer. I've heard about them. He has feelings for her. He's already slipped and called her Mom and referred to them as his parents. She makes his dad happy and they have formed a family. This is what hurts so much. Having that meant more to me than anything.


Yep she is his step mom I have had 7 step dads all were worthless as a bucket with a hole in it. The title step mom can mean a lot or it can mean nothing in this case that would be nothing. She does fulfill a role in hid DADS home not his home as your SONS home is with YOU. Of course she makes hid dad happy she is walking talking Barbie doll oh a vegetarian Barbie doll at that. LOL. That is the kind of women he wants not one like you who is not only beautiful but also smart and strong. He wants a young, pretty yes women for a wife. Not a young beautiful women who is able and wiling to stand up for herself and not be a servant or an ornament on his arm. You are worth 20 of her. It was his shallowness and lack of taste that made him choose her after all when you are a bottom feeder and you want to feel superior to someone you need to look pretty far down to do that. With you he could never BE superior and he knew it. You would always have more integrity than him, more honor and more character. You will have a family again with a man who TRULY loves you and is more importantly WORTH your love, he never was.



angelpixie said:


> I can't give him the kind of home that they can. I'm just one person. I work a full-time job. They're two people who are home all day and are free to take him on cool day trips, etc. I'm not sure how much difference he sees between her and me. I honestly don't think it's much. As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that this is the biggest thing about the whole remarriage issue that hurts. Deep down, I've always felt that aside from giving birth to him, there's really truly nothing I give DS that another woman couldn't. My brother is adopted, and my mother loved him as much as me, her biological child -- more, in fact. She could just as easily be the person he goes to when he's sad or hurting or sick or want to share some great news he has. I know that's possible. I feel like this remarriage makes official the thing I've feared more than anything. The total and complete loss of what has always been most important to me.


You know the happiest times in my life where with my mom and dad when they were single. True story. You know why because I had them all to myself "well outside the alcohol and blackouts". You want to know what you give him that she can't? YOUR LOVE she can give him HER love but it will not be YOUR love. You want to know something else when he looks at you he sees a future with you. You will always be there for him. You will see him graduate. You will see him fall in love. You will see him broken hearted. You will see him have kids. With her she is a fancy shiny piece of tinsel that is nice to have around but soon you see that is is cheap and worthless with you he has NO DOUBT that you will always be there for him. He never worries that you will leave him. He never worries that you will not take care of him. He never worries that you don't love him. He never has to be ON for you unless he want to be. As he grows up you will BE there she may or may not but she will NEVER have the depth of character, the insight, the intelligence that you do making you FAR superior to some tinsel coated made in Taiwan Barbie doll with twitchy legs that you have to rubber band shut... Adoption is different has you do not often have the biological in the picture you are comparing apples to lug nuts they just don't mix. It is a credit to your mom that she did that but this situation is not that.

Let me say that HE was never what was important to you. Who he was and who you thought him to be were just to far apart for those gaps to ever be bridged. So I think what is important to you is this. You son's love. A mans love. A strong loving family. To feel treasured. To feel priceless to someone. To feel wanted. To feel needed. To feel as if you mans world revolves around YOU. To feel like your family is strong, healthy and loving that it is a secure place to grow old and to confront the world together. Am I right? Him leaving did not kill any of this for you. This is still your dream if you dream to win a race but fail does that mean you never run again? The only true failure is stopping to try. These things are still out there for you to grab. The only thing you have lost is some shyte on your shoe "that would be him". With that no longer weighing you down you can fly now. 



angelpixie said:


> I know it hasn't happened yet, and may very well never happen at all. But it's making me face this. I'm not sure what the answer is or how to deal with it. But those feelings are there, and I can't deny them. I don't think Chinless would feel these same feelings if I were to get involved with someone, especially if he's got his own person and they have already established their family together. I don't think Chinless sees me ever being with anyone else, either.


It will never happen this is a only a groundless fear if I could I would reach inside you and take this fear for myself my own demons would eat it alive with a chuckle. But I can't to my sorrow what I can tell you is that in this you mind is not your friend instead trust those you do care about you that this is an illusion much like the bottom feeder character and her good looks both when you look underneath it you will find disgusting things that even Cthulu would cringe at. Not proper monsters at all in my opinion. You can feel them but when you do I want you to remember that those people who care about you those people who have been where your son is, those people with experience are telling you that the feeling you are having is false. That you are so magnificent that your son will always love you as HIS one and only true MOM. As for you ex having any feeling if you moved on well listen when you are and ugly naked rat mole rat and look like one it is damn hard to have any good feelings for a beautiful intelligent women you are just to consumed with your own dank dark tunnels not to mention you epic ugliness.  You will be with someone again never fear that as long as you WANT to be with someone. There are guys out there who go to sleep at night and dream of being with a women like you and when they wake they feel utter disappointment that is was only a dream. You don't see the admiring looks guys give you or the longing in their hearts to have the courage to approach you but the fear of talking to a women that is beautiful can cripple lesser men.


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## CEL

angelpixie said:


> I know I will always be DS' mom, but nothing is a certainty for me anymore. I know that feelings change. What if Trampire said she did want to be his step-mom? What if it wasn't Trampire, but a different, better woman? I won't have any choice but to just keep going, right?
> 
> No, I don't wish them failure or turmoil -- for DS' sake. If it wasn't for sharing DS, I would not care if they succeeded or failed, truly. And there's the rub -- to give DS a stable household with them, I have to actually go beyond indifference and wish them success in a relationship built on lies, betrayal, and the death of one of my two most cherished dreams. Granted, the odds of that happening are small, but theoretically, it's what I'm expected to do.
> 
> It all just hurts. I don't want to lose anymore. I want to give DS what he needs to live a happy life, but I wish it didn't hurt so damned much.





angelpixie said:


> I know I will always be DS' mom, but nothing is a certainty for me anymore. I know that feelings change. What if Trampire said she did want to be his step-mom? What if it wasn't Trampire, but a different, better woman? I won't have any choice but to just keep going, right?


A better women than you? A better mom than you? Bite your tongue to speak such falsehoods. NO ONE will ever be what you are to your son. EVER. So what if she wants to be a step mom hey second place is just first to lose right? She will always be just a cheap tart who needs hours and a Spackle spade to put on her face in the morning. Yes you will have to keep going but not with this to worry about no matter who the bottom feeder screws in the future they will never be YOU and that is what your son WANTS you. Not someone else. You count yourself far to lowly you are so much more than you think you are. You are so much more magnificent than you give yourself credit for.



angelpixie said:


> No, I don't wish them failure or turmoil -- for DS' sake. If it wasn't for sharing DS, I would not care if they succeeded or failed, truly. And there's the rub -- to give DS a stable household with them, I have to actually go beyond indifference and wish them success in a relationship built on lies, betrayal, and the death of one of my two most cherished dreams. Granted, the odds of that happening are small, but theoretically, it's what I'm expected to do.


Why not wish for their failure? I would with a burning almost religious intensity I do vengeance thinking very well want me to do some for you? That way you don't have to be a bad person I am cool being that person for you  He has a stable household with YOU. His dad will have a stable household even if he is alone. What is better to be in a mom and dad marriage with a dad that hits the son or to have the parents separated? Yep this was me many of the husband my mom married where physically abusive my dad never really knew but do you think that was stable? Hell no it was not. Single parents can be AWESOME and I think you ARE awesome so as long as you are stable feel free to hate all you want or just ask me to I am good with that just one of the many services I provide "see not just a sarcasm machine I also do petty vengeance " Again you are not expected to do that as that is an unrealistic and just plain masochistic expectation. You want to know what every kid expects of his separated parents? The same thing that they expect in a married parent. Love, honesty, trust, discipline, empathy, compassion, loyalty, forethought NONE of these have to do with you putting wounds on your psyche. You are worth more than that. Even if you think you should hurt yourself I will say NO YOU SHOULD NOT. I can't stop you but I will NEVER endorse you being in pain.



angelpixie said:


> It all just hurts. I don't want to lose anymore. I want to give DS what he needs to live a happy life, but I wish it didn't hurt so damned much.


I know is does Angel I do and it hurts me to see you hurting again if I could take it away I would but I can't. You won't lose your son. He loves you. You will have him for YEARS, DECADES you will see him grow old and have kids and he will always love you. Yes you will have tough times and he may slip now and then but have faith in YOUR love and have faith in HIS love. You are part of him and that is his shining light.


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## Dollystanford

Hey Angel, you may not want to wish them success or failure but I have enough hatred for that f*cking muppet and and his tart for both of us

So yeah I wish them failure. With f*cking bells on


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## catcalls

angelpixie said:


> Thanks for the nice words, all. Mablenc -- my son is 10. He has seen me be emotional, but I don't want him taking it on himself.



but he has seen you recover as well. he is growing older and he sees and understands more.


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## catcalls

angelpixie said:


> You make great points, Pb and Enjoli. No, I actually haven't thought about what DS tells them. I guess I've always figured they don't talk about what we do together. I've assumed that the dismissive way they treat me in person (and DS is there when they do it) is the same way I'm treated if he brings me up. It's subtle, to be sure, so maybe he doesn't pick up on it. I just honestly have no way of knowing.
> 
> I had a long response written out, but it boils down to this. She's there, and whether or not there's anything official, she more or less is his step-mom. She fulfills a role in his home, including things that bring them closer. I've heard about them. He has feelings for her. He's already slipped and called her Mom and referred to them as his parents. She makes his dad happy and they have formed a family. This is what hurts so much. Having that meant more to me than anything.
> 
> I can't give him the kind of home that they can. I'm just one person. I work a full-time job. They're two people who are home all day and are free to take him on cool day trips, etc. I'm not sure how much difference he sees between her and me. I honestly don't think it's much. As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that this is the biggest thing about the whole remarriage issue that hurts. Deep down, I've always felt that aside from giving birth to him, there's really truly nothing I give DS that another woman couldn't. My brother is adopted, and my mother loved him as much as me, her biological child -- more, in fact. She could just as easily be the person he goes to when he's sad or hurting or sick or want to share some great news he has. I know that's possible. I feel like this remarriage makes official the thing I've feared more than anything. The total and complete loss of what has always been most important to me.
> 
> I know it hasn't happened yet, and may very well never happen at all. But it's making me face this. I'm not sure what the answer is or how to deal with it. But those feelings are there, and I can't deny them. I don't think Chinless would feel these same feelings if I were to get involved with someone, especially if he's got his own person and they have already established their family together. I don't think Chinless sees me ever being with anyone else, either.


you cant give him the 'bohemian' home that chinless and GF do. but does a child/need want two such homes. also, i remember you mentioning a few weeks ago that DS did not want to go and see his dad and he did not want to spend time there as he never gets his dad to listen etc. so it is not as if everything is like a disney movie there. 

I think chinless sees how well you are doing and you are not paying him attention. he decides (consciously or otherwise) to pay more attention to DS and woo him as a way to show him that he is a great parent too. he cant keep up the fun stuff for long. he has to up the stakes, tell him about their proposed marriage, all to keep up the excitement and drama factor high. i dont understand why people who are shacked up and happy dont marry immediately but stay engaged for years. what is the point?

as for your reaction, you should not bother replying at all. if he asks again, pretend as though it is at the back of your mind, say congratulations. if he persists, tell him that DS is excited , no problem with him. If he keeps asking and wants you to tell him that you are ok with it, you reply by saying that we are way past the point of caring what the other one does.

dont say too much. dont 'reassure' him that you are fine. show indifference not speak it out.


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## whitehawk

l can't believe he told ds so soon when it's years away anyway. Years away hell it could not even happen then anyway yet, why even worry him with it ?


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## nice777guy

whitehawk said:


> l can't believe he told ds so soon when it's years away anyway. Years away hell it could not even happen then anyway yet, why even worry him with it ?


Drama!


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## Dollystanford

Because it's what they do. They get a dumbass idea in their heads and suddenly it's the biggest and bestest idea ever. And rather than actually sit for a nanosecond and think about what the implications might be for all concerned they have to shout it immediately from the rooftops like a couple of small children with ADD

And then aren't embarrassed when it all goes tits up


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## Unique Username

Dollystanford said:


> Because it's what they do. They get a dumbass idea in their heads and suddenly it's the biggest and bestest idea ever. And rather than actually sit for a nanosecond and think about what the implications might be for all concerned they have to shout it immediately from the rooftops like a couple of small children with ADD
> 
> And then aren't embarrassed when it all goes tits up


OMGoodness!! You could be describing my EH & PA now wife.

During the divorce, the OW had won the Nigerian Lottery...she and my X told my son...explained all they were going to do and buy with it ...even TRIED to use it as a tool to gain joint custody to avoid child support..hahahahahahahaha can you imagine what the judge thought when they talked of their newfound wealth?!!

(I have full legal and physical custody, and I allow my son to see his Father whenever m0y Son wants) 
My son is now 13 and has figured out on his own to take all posturing by his Father as just that, expect nothing and you are less likely to be disappointed.


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## angelpixie

Unique Username said:


> During the divorce, the OW had won the Nigerian Lottery...she and my X told my son...explained all they were going to do and buy with it ...even TRIED to use it as a tool to gain joint custody to avoid child support..hahahahahahahaha can you imagine what the judge thought when they talked of their newfound wealth?!!


O.M.G. that takes the cake. I'm surprised the judge didn't make them turn in their driver's licenses and require them to both have adult guardians to protect themselves...from themselves. :rofl:


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## nice777guy

Unique Username said:


> OMGoodness!! You could be describing my EH & PA now wife.
> 
> During the divorce, the OW had won the Nigerian Lottery...she and my X told my son...explained all they were going to do and buy with it ...even TRIED to use it as a tool to gain joint custody to avoid child support..hahahahahahahaha can you imagine what the judge thought when they talked of their newfound wealth?!!
> 
> (I have full legal and physical custody, and I allow my son to see his Father whenever m0y Son wants)
> My son is now 13 and has figured out on his own to take all posturing by his Father as just that, expect nothing and you are less likely to be disappointed.


The Nigerian Lottery???


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## Unique Username

yep....internet scam...been around since the internet began.

IKR?!!! like Um there is no Nigerian Lottery. It is similar to the emails you get from folks saying I am the executor of the estate of whomever and I need your help accessing the cash before my govt takes it all etc etc lotsa scams

My EH and his wife (AP) are really gullible and stupid. Small consolation for me lol


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## angelpixie

Unique Username said:


> yep....internet scam...been around since the internet began.
> 
> IKR?!!! like Um there is no Nigerian Lottery. It is similar to the emails you get from folks saying I am the executor of the estate of whomever and I need your help accessing the cash before my govt takes it all etc etc lotsa scams
> 
> *My EH and his wife (AP) are really gullible and stupid. *Small consolation for me lol


And just to clarify, in this case, AP means 'affair partner,' not 'angelpixie.'


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## Unique Username

angelpixie said:


> And just to clarify, in this case, AP means 'affair partner,' not 'angelpixie.'


Hahahaha thanks for clarification..of course I didn't mean You Angel Pixie..I don't think you are stupid or gullible!!


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## angelpixie

Found out something interesting. Ex has never met any of the women in my Y group, but he has met DS' friend from there (he was at DS' birthday party). DS has never had this friend over when he's been with Ex. Well, this past Sunday, he wanted to go to the local water park with this friend, so Ex arranged it. I didn't know about it until DS made a quick surprise visit to look for his swim goggles. I wondered how that meeting between Ex and my friend (the boy's mom) would go. Well, she didn't spill a lot (she's pretty introverted, even with friends), but she did tell me she was very uncomfortable because he was staring at her the whole time. In a way that was more like ogling than just watching someone you've just met to see what they're about. Hmmm.

And when I was watching DS a little later than usual on Sunday because they were photographing out of town, I was going to print up and fill out the forms for camp and give them to Ex, since he was taking DS up there in the morning (but I had registered and paid, so I had to sign). I had to run up to work to do it, and had computer problems so just beat them back to my place. I was hurriedly filling them out at the kitchen table while Ex waited in the LR with DS. After a mere 2 minute, she came in. I heard muttering regarding why he was waiting, and she said the phrase, "I trust you." :rofl:


Now, tell me, are these the actions and words of two people on the verge of announcing their engagement?


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## Dollystanford

Angel are you laughing at the formation of a new 'Trust Circle'?


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## angelpixie

Since she had to come in after two minutes and check on him, I think it's more akin to a Cold War 'Trust, but Verify' attitude. And yes, I'm laughing at that.


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## whitehawk

Dollystanford said:


> Because it's what they do. They get a dumbass idea in their heads and suddenly it's the biggest and bestest idea ever. And rather than actually sit for a nanosecond and think about what the implications might be for all concerned they have to shout it immediately from the rooftops like a couple of small children with ADD
> 
> And then aren't embarrassed when it all goes tits up



Yeah , l just can't believe some people in this stuff !


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## Dollystanford




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## angelpixie

Had to get DS from the Ex today after work. We didn't coordinate ahead of time whether I was driving out to Ex's to pick him up, or if Ex was dropping him off with me. As I was leaving work, I texted, then called. No reply and had to leave voicemail. I was late due to my annual review running over, so I just drove out to the old house. Nobody was home.  Finally he texted that their photoshoot ran late and he was on his way to my place. So glad I texted AND left a voicemail, lol.  So we eventually decided to meet up at a halfway point. We arrived at the exact same time. DS got out and ran to my car. She was dressed in a sleeveless skintight black mini-dress, with crocheted lace from the neckline to the top of the bust. Hair put up, and wearing a hugemongous silver cross on a chain (totally didn't match the dress, btw). And she looked pissed. Frozen smile, but pissed. I thought she looked kind of dressed-up for a Monday afternoon. Ex had on a nice white button-down with jeans. Exchanged a minimum of pleasantries, then started to get in the car with DS as they turned to walk away. Suddenly I hear Ex say loudly from several feet away "GOOD BYE, TRAMPIRE" I was startled and looked back at them, and so did DS. He was looking firmly at DS, and she had that same frozen pissed-off smile. DS breezily says "Oh, bye Trampire" and gets in the car. I kind of gave a little "Kids - what are ya gonna do?" smile to them and walked to my door. 

I asked DS how his day went, and if he had fun. He said he helped Dad and Trampire take their engagement photos. So THAT was why she was all dressed up. But wouldn't you think one would be happy to be so in love and engaged and commemorating it all digitally to share with everyone (via newspaper and online, I can only surmise)? And the huge cross was a great touch, because God obviously approves of this whole debacle. And Ex is an atheist, which I assume she knows. That all just made me laugh. 

And again -- WHY are they doing this when they are not supposedly getting married for at least 2 more years??!?!?! Do people really do that? Take photos for a wedding that won't happen for 2-3 years? Ex and I didn't do the engagement photo/announcement in the paper thing. Our divorce was the only thing related to our marriage that appeared in the paper, lol.

And I still have not acknowledged it to either of them.


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## Dollystanford

Why would you dress up for engagement photos in a black crocheted minidress plus cross unless you have gone goth? Has she gone goth?

And if you have lace from neckline to bust you shouldn't wear any form of necklace surely


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## EnjoliWoman

Only pearls are suitable against black lace. Even then not necessary. Ah, young goth... what can you do?


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## angelpixie

Dollystanford said:


> Why would you dress up for engagement photos in a black crocheted minidress plus cross unless you have gone goth? Has she gone goth?


No, she hasn't gone goth. With the way she wore her hair, I definitely thing she was trying to go 'elegant.' 



Dollystanford said:


> And if you have lace from neckline to bust you shouldn't wear any form of necklace surely


My thought exactly. The lace was too busy and chunky and the neck too high for anything else. Only jewelry should have been earrings. And not big honking cross ones in those, either.  Pearls would have been a great choice there, Enjoli.

But then, that's why we have class and they don't.


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## Dollystanford

Minidress generally does not = elegant
Unless you are a willowy supermodel and it has a high neckline
Legs or cleavage, never both - silly trampire!


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## angelpixie

Well, she is actually willowy, and the dress wasn't showing cleavage (as she doesn't have any to show). So, she was OK there.


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## vi_bride04

Sounds like she is really trying to overcompensate their engagement by dressing so "elegantly" for the pics. 

If they were truly happy she wouldn't feel the need to "go all out" like that. Engagement pics are probably the most relaxed/casual formal pictures you can take, lol


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## angelpixie

And this morning, while taking him to Ex's, DS was asking me if I saw his dad's engagement photos on FB (already!). He was excited about them. I told him his dad and I don't share things on FB anymore, that it's not something we do anymore. That we don't really share things about our lives with each other anymore. Rather than that ending things, he took that as an invitation to fill me in on what I missed.  All the different poses, how much fun they were all having, etc. 

I'm trying really hard not to put a wall up between DS and me regarding things to do with his dad and his life with him. But this is getting to be a bit much. If DS isn't intuitively picking up on my lack of interest, and not picking up on clues I'm giving about his dad and I no longer sharing things with each other, I'm being left with no choice but to say "Please don't talk to me this." Which drives a wedge between DS and me. I can't go into details as to why I don't want to talk about this with him. So, how does he interpret that? I don't want it to play into this fear he spoke of to his dad, that I will be upset about them having fun together. And to his mind, I'm sure that's what it will sound like. 

I think for the time being, I will have to perfect my fake "That's nice, dear" kind of answer and then change the subject right away.

Oh, I just thought of something. I really hope they didn't include DS in their photos. Like as a 'family' shot.   

Geez, this sucks.


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## doubletrouble

angelpixie said:


> So is this what healing feels like? Near indifference? I guess that's what we all tell ourselves and each other that we're shooting for. It just feels very weird.


This is from your original post. Remember it. *Indifference*, yes, it IS what you're looking for. 

I read the rest of this thread and I think that although you have a few (normal, quiet) hiccups (because you're human), you're doing really well. You're treating DS properly, respectufully, maturely and despite his youthful enthusiasm for their "imminent celebration" (partly imbued by Chinless and Gutter Slvt), he sounds like an enthusiatic, loves-his-Mom kinda kid. 

You're more blessed than you probably know at this point. Keep going, hit the gas, you're headed in all the right directions. 

:smthumbup:


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## EnjoliWoman

It does suck. And you can't put up a wall. Some day you may be the only person he can talk to when his Dad and Trampire do something that hurts his feelings. He needs to be able to tell you.

Boys are NOT going to be intuitive enough to pick up on your emotions. Remember, they don't "get" subtle.

Just keep reminding yourself this will likely implode some day. As he's describing stuff, imagine her with a knife in her back... like the one she put in yours. Or imagine chinless sobbing as she drives away. Whatever works for you to fight the sad with vengeful thoughts instead.


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## CEL

angelpixie said:


> Well, she is actually willowy, and the dress wasn't showing cleavage (as she doesn't have any to show). So, she was OK there.


No cleavage......What would be the point? He leaves YOU for HER the man needs his brain examined. I mean come on YOU for some little stick figure with twitchy legs? NO CONTEST.


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## CEL

Okay I don't get this crap it is 2 YEARS away I mean who does pictures 2 YEARS away. Oh wait she has plans to become a guy and this way the photos will still look good. Does your boy toy like a little on the other side? Really my guess is mc twitchy legs is coming to realize what a complete waste of flesh he is and is starting to get into I need to marry him so that I he won't cheat on ME. It is only a matter of time. Dogs sleep, cats fight and cheaters cheat "with some exceptions". She has to know he lacks the moral fortitude of a hairless mole rat. I see a bunch of pushing from her and him going along with it to keep her around. Be prepared for the marriage date to come a lot sooner than 2 years. She is fast tracking it to hide the fact that he is garbage.


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## CEL

angelpixie said:


> And this morning, while taking him to Ex's, DS was asking me if I saw his dad's engagement photos on FB (already!). He was excited about them. I told him his dad and I don't share things on FB anymore, that it's not something we do anymore. That we don't really share things about our lives with each other anymore. Rather than that ending things, he took that as an invitation to fill me in on what I missed.  All the different poses, how much fun they were all having, etc.
> 
> I'm trying really hard not to put a wall up between DS and me regarding things to do with his dad and his life with him. But this is getting to be a bit much. If DS isn't intuitively picking up on my lack of interest, and not picking up on clues I'm giving about his dad and I no longer sharing things with each other, I'm being left with no choice but to say "Please don't talk to me this." Which drives a wedge between DS and me. I can't go into details as to why I don't want to talk about this with him. So, how does he interpret that? I don't want it to play into this fear he spoke of to his dad, that I will be upset about them having fun together. And to his mind, I'm sure that's what it will sound like.
> 
> I think for the time being, I will have to perfect my fake "That's nice, dear" kind of answer and then change the subject right away.
> 
> Oh, I just thought of something. I really hope they didn't include DS in their photos. Like as a 'family' shot.
> 
> Geez, this sucks.



How old is you son again? In these situations I would be honest you are never to young to have someone be honest with you. I would just say that mommy and daddy have different lives and that they agreed to not get involved in each other lives anymore. When he wants to show you something like that be honest and say no thank you. DON'T let others hurt you. Your son is young not stupid you can say no to him with out it being about HIM. Just be honest that you do not want to see the pictures then move the topic along. I know every mother never want to say no to their son but in this case the result is that you could of said no thanks and move on instead you went along and feel resentment. See the difference? Don't do things you will resent just be polite and honest if he asks you why just tell him that you have two separate lives right now and that works for you or that you just don't want to. Again saying no or feeling resentment then no is better.

This does bring up the subject of proper boundaries with your son. I am not saying have a whole conversation with as that is not necessary but when these things come up being prepared with a simple explanation is best. This is not just for you but really seeing you hurting hurts me too so I would love for you to not hurt. But is also for him showing him through your actions how to make and keep boundaries is SUPER important for his growth. My mom was a person who could never say no to someone so a lot of bad crap happened and I have that trait as well so showing your son that good boundaries make for good relationships is a good idea. Just be loving and polite about it understand you don't have to explain why you don't want to do something you can just say you don't. If pushed then move onto a generalization and change the subject. Hoping for you


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## angelpixie

So, something odd happened last night when I took DS to Chinless' place to start his week with him. For the first time in months, DS wanted to take some big bins of legos to his dad's. He carried the smaller one up to the door, and I carried the larger one for him. He went in while I stayed just outside the door (I don't go where I'm not specifically invited, unlike other certain people. *cough*Trampire*cough*) I could see into the house enough to see that they were both there. Ex kind of walked over and waved, and I could see he was talking on the phone. He walked back into the room. After he got the bigger bin from me and set it down, DS came over to give me a good-bye hug and kiss, like usual. But this time, it was a very big warm hug, and it was extra long. He gave me extra kisses, and told me that he loved me, and that I was his favorite mom, and his _only_ mom. That just made me internally say "Whoa, where did _that_ come from all of a sudden?" I've told him he's my favorite boy since he was born, and he's said I was his favorite mom since he was old enough to say it, lol. But obviously, now, the 'my only mom' part was extra pointed, and he obviously meant it that way, by the way he looked me directly in the face when he said that part. He just said it in a normal voice, so I wasn't sure they heard it, esp with Ex on the phone. But I wondered if I'd hear about it. We said our goodbyes.

Tonight, I saw DS after work for a while, and again drove him out to Ex's. I don't always walk DS to the door, but I did today because, if I could without too many rolling-eyed sighs or frozen smiles, I wanted to confirm a change in plans for Friday that we'd previously discussed. Well, he answered the door. As DS was going in the house, I talked to Ex over his head. I thought we settled everything. I hugged DS and turned to go. Ex walked out the door and pulled it shut partway. "Um, the other night, when you dropped him off, he said something at the door about you being his only mom...?" So they _did_ hear it.  Uh oh. I told him that it surprised me, too. I reminded him about the 'favorite mom/boy' thing, and he nodded, remembering. I went straight to the point and told him I didn't tell him to say that, nor did I even specifically talk to him about Trampire and the her 'role' since last week. He acted genuinely surprised and said that he never thought I would have done that, as that would have been 'a really horrible thing to do' (really?! a little dramatic, no?) - he just wondered if it came as a result of some other discussion or something. He was a little rattled and spilled that at times, when DS transitions to being with them for the week, he is not very comfortable or warm towards Trampire. Hmmm. First time I've heard that from him. He asked if there had been any 'issues' from DS. Oddly, never mentioned the engagement specifically. I told him no - that DS was telling me about the photos, etc., and seemed happy. He nodded his head, but was still very puzzled. He thanked me for talking to him, and we said good-bye.

I made a few observations. First of which was again -- how in the world was I looking him in the eye, when I'm 5' 4.5", and he's 6' tall. Yes, I was wearing heels, but they weren't _that_ high, lol. It's like he is slumping again. Also, I would never have been able to handle this conversation a year ago at this time. Right about this time a year ago, I looked at a photo shoot the two of them did together, dressed in vintage clothes as a boss and secretary. He posted a few on FB, and one was even her FB avatar, and then linked to his studio's website for the rest. I thought I could handle them, and shared a few with TAM friends, but it was much harder than I thought. They were shot in 'our' living room, using things that we'd bought together for 'our' home as props. I thought I was used to seeing them together by then, but I wasn't. Seeing them in that setting, posed to look like what they were -- cheaters, was a bit jarring.

A year later, I stood there, looking him in the eye the entire time. Standing straight, confident, smiling. As it happened, today I had channeled my inner 'sexy librarian' and I knew I looked good.  I _felt_ good about myself. And even though I _knew_ the initial purpose of him talking to me was to accuse me of doing something to make DS say that, to (I'm guessing) 'send a message' to Trampire, he ended up flustered and backtracking, and saying he knew I'd "never" do something like that. Right. 

And in the end, I still didn't directly mention or show any feelings about their engagement. As far as he knows, I am completely over every and anything to do with _him_. As recently as the day before our D (the last time we really talked), he told me he was hoping I could move on (as if I hadn't). Now I think he knows.


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## whitehawk

Spose you know this Angel but just encase. The poor little man was just making an announcement to you, his mum.
He was saying to hell with their crap and her , your always gonna be my mum not her and he loves you very very much.

He feels far far more than what l think they realize and the poor little fellas still struggling like hell with this but he's doing he's duty and his best and would wanna see his dad too . He sure doesn't care for trampire though .
l dunno how people get through this stuff , l see so many struggles in my d still.
X says she does but acts as if it's all good , makes me sick !


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## whitehawk

PS , isn't it insulting when they just take it for granted we're still just moping and depressed.
l realized x was doing that to so l've started saying -when l get home , or if l'm home , or when someone crashed on the couch the other night, or they were over or l was over there the other wk.

Strange , her ears have been pricking up since and she's even started asking now, if l have time , or if l'm going to be home.

That's better , bit of respect . But hey truth is l have no life , zero , zilch , nada , but she doesn't have to know that


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## EnjoliWoman

He's slumping because he's been beaten down by Trampire. I bet SHE heard what DS said and made chinless talk to you about it.  He's whipped.

I bet your hips had a bit more swing to them as you walked to the car.


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## angelpixie

EnjoliWoman said:


> I bet your hips had a bit more swing to them as you walked to the car.


And the pencil skirt I was wearing with those heels helped that right along.


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## Pbartender

angelpixie said:


> And the pencil skirt I was wearing with those heels helped that right along.


This post is useless without pictures.


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## vi_bride04

angelpixie said:


> And the pencil skirt I was wearing with those heels helped that right along.


OH SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!! 

And you know that Trampire saw that sexy booty walking away not giving a flying sheeeeeeeeeeet about them and their life. You might as well have just slapped that attention wh0re in the face and it would have given the same effect 

And I love how he is so whipped by her. She still dresses him, right? ROFLMAO


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## CEL

angelpixie said:


> Tonight, I saw DS after work for a while, and again drove him out to Ex's. I don't always walk DS to the door, but I did today because, if I could without too many rolling-eyed sighs or frozen smiles, I wanted to confirm a change in plans for Friday that we'd previously discussed. Well, he answered the door. As DS was going in the house, I talked to Ex over his head. I thought we settled everything. I hugged DS and turned to go. Ex walked out the door and pulled it shut partway. "Um, the other night, when you dropped him off, he said something at the door about you being his only mom...?" So they _did_ hear it.  Uh oh. I told him that it surprised me, too. I reminded him about the 'favorite mom/boy' thing, and he nodded, remembering. I went straight to the point and told him I didn't tell him to say that, nor did I even specifically talk to him about Trampire and the her 'role' since last week. He acted genuinely surprised and said that he never thought I would have done that, as that would have been 'a really horrible thing to do' (really?! a little dramatic, no?) - he just wondered if it came as a result of some other discussion or something. He was a little rattled and spilled that at times, when DS transitions to being with them for the week, he is not very comfortable or warm towards Trampire. Hmmm. First time I've heard that from him. He asked if there had been any 'issues' from DS. Oddly, never mentioned the engagement specifically. I told him no - that DS was telling me about the photos, etc., and seemed happy. He nodded his head, but was still very puzzled. He thanked me for talking to him, and we said good-bye.


Something is off about this I applaud your son for what he did but it comes down to two reasons. 

1. He noticed you where having a hard time with all this and wanted to stake his claim. I hope this the case but I fear it is number 2.

2. That your ex is pressuring him to accept mc twitchy legs to be nice to her, that she is really a good person, hey she will go buy you ice cream. That kind of crap now I don't think you have to worry. Frist off you are a great mom and NO SON is going to choose mc twitchy over your gorgeous self and also because you son has part of you in him and you are a wonderful person so you should be good to go.




angelpixie said:


> A year later, I stood there, looking him in the eye the entire time. Standing straight, confident, smiling. As it happened, today I had channeled my inner 'sexy librarian' and I knew I looked good.  I _felt_ good about myself. And even though I _knew_ the initial purpose of him talking to me was to accuse me of doing something to make DS say that, to (I'm guessing) 'send a message' to Trampire, he ended up flustered and backtracking, and saying he knew I'd "never" do something like that. Right.
> 
> And in the end, I still didn't directly mention or show any feelings about their engagement. As far as he knows, I am completely over every and anything to do with _him_. As recently as the day before our D (the last time we really talked), he told me he was hoping I could move on (as if I hadn't). Now I think he knows.


You have come a long way far far more growth than he has every experienced. I wanted to touch on a scene you brought up in the other thread when mc twitchy felt she had to check on him. You are truly a beautiful women with many outstanding qualities honor, integrity, compassion, intelligence not to mention that you have an attractive outside as well. To ANY women you are a threat and should be taken that way. What she did reminds me of a dung beetle they collect all this crap and roll it around and they protect it thinking it actually means something to others. That is her she is the dung beetle she things someone would actually want that piece of shyte. LOL. And she want to MARRY him. LOL. If I was in her shoes looking at you I would be on him like white on rice you are worth ten times what she is. You got an amazing personality with a knock out body and come on sexy librarian wowzza. What does she have? No morals, twitchy legs and a doubtful body. No brainer for me and many other men I am sure.


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## BWBill

Your son knows which mom loves him.


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