# Does every cheater beg forgivness eventually?



## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

Ok, H has said he is sorry. It was a mistake, a foolish one, and it was stupid of him to do. 

I feel he is still in the fog after 17 mths of MC x 2. I have forgiven the act of EA/?PA, but not the hurt. Now I wonder if he is going to come out of the fog and what it will look like when he does.

When he finally forgives me for spending money foolishly, which is what he claims drove him to look for another woman, will he break down, get down on his knees and beg me to stay with him? 

Does every Man or Woman, who wants to reconcile, go through the begging to stay stage at some point when they realize everything.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

No, actually some like my wife skip that part of the script and go direct to saying that God has forgiven them so there is no need to beg from me, merely her husband. And since God has done it already, me (her husband) wanting answers, expression of remorse, and proof of a return to marriage connection? All that is just me being selfish.

Sorry, I'm in a bad mood today.

But really, only some cheaters beg for forgiveness. two types:

1. Truly regret screwing up and want to right things.

2. Regret getting caught and don't like the fall out of their cheating. and since they are good at lying, they act remorseful, but really are going into deep cover.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*Does every cheater beg forgivness eventually? *

No. Not all do. I think for any reconciliation to work, the cheater MUST ask for forgiveness and own what they did. He is still deflecting blame if he says he had the affair cause you spent $. Tell him he needs to own it fully.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

If he's still like this after more than year and a half after DDay, I would seriously have to question of the A is still ongoing or not. It also appears that you have been so desperate for R that you are the one who's been doing to the heavy lifting to R, not him. 

He obviously doesn't believe that you would even think about D, hence the reason he's been so unremorseful. You need to investigate to see if he's still in the A. And if he is, then you need to do the 180 and make preparations for D. If you want to save this, you have to be prepared to lose this. Because at this point in time, he does not respect you one bit. And if he's not in a current affair now, he will cheat again. Why? Because he knows that you will take him back again and again. 

And you need to stop accepting blame for his affair. Did you spend a lot of money? Maybe you did. That in no way justifies his cheating. 

He is nowhere near ready to R. A remorseful cheater will want to do ANYTHING to repair the marriage, ANYTHING to regain your trust. 

You want him to beg you forgiveness? Then kick his @ss to the curb and tell him you're done with his crap. If he begs to come back, fine, give your conditions and let him do the heavy lifting for R. If not, then you really will not have lost much because trying to R with him would be useless anyway.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

Well You have given me some deep thinking responses. I see exactly what points you are making too. 

I look constantly. He has nothing on his phone, the computer, in his wallet, the vehicles, his clothes. He is away from home at times for a week or two. I search suitcases, everything at the moment he gets home. Every thing is open for me to see. So I do believe what was happening is done. 
Will it happen again. Very possible, but the next time He will tell or I will see it coming, I'm sure. 

Won't be that trusting ever again.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

I may be giving too much to fix things. I'm not sure how to not work at making my marriage good again. 

Kicking him to the curb? I wish I knew how. I am unable to work right now, and I can't draw Disab. 
I have made statements about him staying away at his parents and not coming home. He's unemployed and work in his field (a plumber upper manag.) is hard to find in our area. So he travels to look further away in other areas. Staying with family is good because of the cost, no hotel. 
Do I trust him being away? Yes, but like a rattlesnake with missing teeth. I know they can grow back in. 

I have said I'm done. Started throwing his things out the door because he said he wasn't leaving. He didn't beg me to stay. I sat down after several trips and he came to me and wanted to talk. We talked, but there didn't seem to be any progress beyond the standard, "You have to quit spending money on things we don't need". "We are in trouble, bad." 

I am aware we are in trouble. Is that all my fault? Shouldn't be, but he makes me feel like he is blaming me and I have to ?fix it? to move on and make him happy so that the marriage is ok. I don't know how, or what to do.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

heartbroken1957 said:


> Well You have given me some deep thinking responses. I see exactly what points you are making too.
> 
> I look constantly. He has nothing on his phone, the computer, in his wallet, the vehicles, his clothes. He is away from home at times for a week or two. I search suitcases, everything at the moment he gets home. Every thing is open for me to see. So I do believe what was happening is done.
> Will it happen again. Very possible, but the next time He will tell or I will see it coming, I'm sure.
> ...


Thing is he's been busted once already. So he knows what to to do not to get caught and may have taken it underground now. I don't know if you know this yet, but the two biggest tools that cheaters use is the secret email account and the secret cell phone that anyone can buy for cash at most stores now. It just takes an ATM withdrawal to buy the phone and or buy cards for talk time refills. What keyloggers are you using for the computer? Anyone can clear their internet history. Are you using a VAR to see if he has an extra phone you don't know about? One place that cheaters feel safe to talk in is their vehicle. Have you tried placing a VAR under his seat in his vehicle? I'll paste some posts from a thread in a forum for OW, and they talk about the secret cell phone.

_"That's why he has a pay as you go phone! No bills for W to find - but if ever she got hold of the phone...........! We will be soooooo busted!!!"

"same here...he has several hiding places he keeps it& he'll move it around every so often but really it's only home w/ him on sunday-tuesday. then he's off on the road and doesn't have to worry about it. Except one time he was on his regular phone w/ her..and I called him (normally he has it on vibrate) and it started ringing and she was like "who's phone is that?" and OMG he almost got seriously busted a while back. She was talkin to him on the phone and he had "our' phone laying on his chest..he was lyain down in his bunk on the bus. She said "XX (the kid) wants you to take a picture and send it to him"..so he took a picture of himself...and she calls back and was like "who's phone is that in the pic?" he was like "huh?" looks at it and realizes like an idiot he left the phone on his chest. He said "oh that is XX (band mate), he had to use my charger and I told him it was charged and was waitin for him to get it.." surprisingly she believed him ha! that was a close one..."

"I am sorry you are going through this....be VERY careful....even if you get a call from his mobile or home nunber...let him speak 1st (tell him that this is what you are doing so he does speak) as she may do a redial or something from HIS phone"

"Dont contact him 1st at any time.... she will be on red alert....and there are so many gadgets out there now to help someone who wants to spy on another person...like putting key loggers on the computer"

"Him phoning you from work on a work line should be a safe way to chat...but for awhile be REALLY careful with texts...if you do send any...keep them 'normal' no love or sexual texts" 

"Good luck I hope it all blows over"

"It may be a good idea for him to have you listed on his phone in a male name not under your name"

"My MM's W went through his old phone and found photos, e-mails and VMs going back years - before me and after me." 

"He has also had my picture as caller ID - and it was seen a few times before this final phone d-day. Now he has a fingerprint scan locking application on his new phone." 

"He had no choice but to fess up to everything. *We are riding it out - and he is finally being more careful*."_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ Geez @ that post. Where did you copy that from?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I didn't because I didn't want it if I had to beg for it. I owned up to what I did, sincerely apologized - thousands of times, and did all the things a cheating spouse is supposed to do - all of them. But I did not beg. If she couldn't find it in herself to forgive me we would have been better off to know that and deal with it. Begging is just selling in desperation and I didn't want to sell her back into the marriage.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Not all cheaters beg forgiveness, not all "cheating" needs forgiveness. Not all begging sounds involve genuine remorse. There is overspending and then there is overspending. I was married once to a seriously chronic overspender who essentially sold me into slavery for years. I had to work 3 jobs and cash in every day of vacation time just to keep our heads above water. it was either divorce her or commit financial suicide. I could have cheated on her or cut her up into tiny pieces without the slightest hint of remorse. A slave doesn't feel remorse when he escapes. Your "overspending" might have been much less serious. Mine freaked out if I went anywhere near the finances or mentioned budget. She opened and hid lines of credit from me, forged my signature on applications, etc, etc, etc. Yeah, I didn't cheat on her but I could have done that and much worse without the slightest hint of guilt.


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## msmith (Jun 7, 2011)

michzz said:


> No, actually some like my wife skip that part of the script and go direct to saying that God has forgiven them so there is no need to beg from me, merely her husband. And since God has done it already, me (her husband) wanting answers, expression of remorse, and proof of a return to marriage connection? All that is just me being selfish.


I don't know who imparts such idea to your wife (or the like mind). Jesus said very clearly that if anyone wants to worship God and remembered he had offended a brother, he had to make amend to the brother first.


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## RestlessInGeorgia (Dec 3, 2008)

michzz said:


> No, actually some like my wife skip that part of the script and go direct to saying that God has forgiven them so there is no need to beg from me, merely her husband. And since God has done it already, me (her husband) wanting answers, expression of remorse, and proof of a return to marriage connection? All that is just me being selfish.
> 
> Sorry, I'm in a bad mood today.
> 
> ...


That's truly sad that your wife feels she only needs to ask forgiveness from God. It seems like she is still in the fog. She must have missed the part where she not only wronged God for breaking your vows, but wronged you just as much and then some. Some Christians are thick and it's really quite sad. They think that hiding behind God is always the answer and when they are told they are hiding behind God, they claim they are leaning on him as he told them to in his word. Sheesh. :scratchhead:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

michzz said:


> No, actually some like my wife skip that part of the script and go direct to saying that God has forgiven them so there is no need to beg from me, merely her husband. And since God has done it already, me (her husband) wanting answers, expression of remorse, and proof of a return to marriage connection? All that is just me being selfish.


That is nuts. And sad.


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## incognitoman (Oct 22, 2009)

Forgiveness is really for yourself. By forgiving you are letting it go. That does not mean that the pain is gone. Imagine that someone hit you with their car and broke your leg. You can forgive them and let the offense go, but the pain is still there, and it will take time to heal. To assume that forgiveness will make it all better is foolish.

Forgiveness allows us to let go and not let it build inside us causing bitterness to grow. Who is the beneficiary of forgiveness? I think that its obvious that it is for ourselves as we can not make another person feel better about something they have done. Forgiving them does not make it "okay" and it does not excuse them. To think that we have any control over how another person CHOOSES to FEEL is arrogant.


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

my wifes therapist tells her that my wife needs to learn how to forgive herself...

not me,though we are separating, 

but to forgive herself???? my wife is going to move out to "find herself" and that she ha to learn how to become her own person....the therapist is basically enabling more selfish behavior,

but the forgiving herself kills me....

she commited the most heineous crime against someone shes supposed to know and love and trust, and she has to forgive her self...

i guess my input on the matter doesnt count. separating or now, there has to be accountability or shell do it again..

f'n stupid..

and my wife loves her therapist( probably one of the reasons why)


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## incognitoman (Oct 22, 2009)

elph said:


> my wifes therapist tells her that my wife needs to learn how to forgive herself...
> 
> not me,though we are separating,
> 
> ...


Forgiving yourself is a huge part of healing. I'm sure you feel resentment and want to sit there and have her continue to feel nothing but remorse for the rest of her life ... for now. She wounded herself too when she betrayed you. She has to forgive so that she can grow and move on too. Moving on doesn't mean moving out tho. It means not dwelling on things that she can't change, would you really want her to just be in the same spot? If you want your marriage to work you need to accept her human faults, and she needs to accept those too. It doesn't sound like the therapist is saying for her to move out, only that she needs to forgive herself. It will accomplish nothing for her to try and make you forgive her. You need to do that on your own if you choose to. I can tell you tho, holding onto that pain will only ruin you. Let it go for your own peace of mind.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Let's back up a minute. You guys have had 17 months of counseling and nothing seems to be resolved. Was your overspending a factor? If so, have you apologized for that? What have you done to correct that? Do you and your husband prepare a budget together?

I also agree with some of the other posters who wonder if an affair still may be in progress. These trips sound suspicious. Are you sure he is actually looking for work?

Just for the record, my cheating husband never apologized for his many affairs, his money spending, nor the fact he destroyed a very prosperous business. It has been five years since the nightmare began. He has two judges on his back, bill collectors all over the place, and he still can't see what he did. But then, he is still in that dang fog (or Never Never Land as I now call it). That makes me wonder if your husband's activities are still going on.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

Well yes I was spending money. I didn't think it was unneccesary things but then what would he need a new spatula, new dish, pan. Fabric to make quilts for my children as heirlooms, yarn for knitting, makeup, bathsoaps that smell good, ect. 

To him even some food products were un-needed items. Thing is I gave shopping over to him several years before. I would make a list and there were times he would come home without things from my list that he felt were wrong, but instead he would buy things that were for him in basicly the same catagory. IE I would ask for choco chips to make cookies, but he would buy a cake from the bakery instead. 
He would argue with me over silly things. I would buy a new whisk, he would ask why. Because the old one is broken. Well you don't need one. Take it back. 

Believe me. He has no shortage of tools in the garage. In fact he went out and bought a whole new set to replace everything that was lost over the years. Blaming the kids that they lost them. Not replacing just the lost ones, A WHOLE NEW SET. What was left of the old set was put in a bucket and on a shelf. These were put in fancy drawers with liners and such. We are talking metric complete and standard, mechanic, etc. In fact just this weekend he had to get a new shovel because he didn't like the one we had. He has major wood working tools, bits galore, in fact one set of 6 specialty router bits were $280 just to make cabinet doors. He has yet to make them. 

He wants me to take full credit for a credit card that is at 11,000. We only have that one. THAT's ENOUGH. I agree. 
But I do not remember ever having the card in my wallet. It is a card he had before we married. It's always had a high amount on it. We pay it down and then it's up again. He wants to claim I charged groceries, school clothes, school suppies, and things like that and that it was $10,000 worth. Of course he also thinks you can buy $10 shoes that will last the boys a yr, and $200 in clothes for school is toooo much. This was for 2 boys mind you.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

It sounds like the shopping is a smoke screen. He's using that as an excuse. Do you ever see this itemized credit card bill? That sounds suspicious as well. If you don't have the credit card, it makes me wonder what the charges are--and how he can even blame you.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm about as frugal as a man can get, but if someone tried to sell me $10.00 shoes, I'd wonder which dead body they were stolen from. $11K in credit card debt doesn't sound all that outrageous. That would have been a drop in my ex's very large bucket.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

The trips are legit. He is not fooling around. I have my spys there too. He does some work when it is available for his brother or someone else that has something to bring in extra money to pay for what unemployment doesn't. It's not a lot but it seems to come like a blessing when a medical bill or unplanned bill happens. 

As for looking for work actively. He has contacts that have dryed up here. He sends out resumes weekly to newspaper ads, Union contacts, etc. The choices he is looking at are not pretty. Even if he were to get one of the jobs he applies for, the money will not be what it was. We could live on it, tightly, but it would mean we would not be able to put away for retirement. That kills him most of all. He is rather phobic about having money for old age. 
I have always said we are insurance poor. Life ins, car ins, health ins, house ins. We made sure we had the best and were well covered. We still have all these, thank God. But he fears being without them. Being without his funds, and retirement funds. 
In order to ease his worries, I cashed in one of my funds to pay things off when he was let go. That was like pulling teeth to get him to let me do it. I finally had to call the company and just do it. It payed off my car, his truck, payed mortgage ahead and got everything current, or ahead. We figured it would only be a few weeks till he had a job again. 
That was Jan 2010.
Now don't go thinking the affair happened because of the job. 
He ended the affair in Aug of 09. 5 mths before the job loss. So we had a few months which we were doing good on getting things on track. At that time the money thing wasn't an issue. 
It's just been lately that he has brought up the money as an issue for causing our marriage to fall apart.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

I am still trying to get ahold of an itemized list for the card. He claims I started going nuts with it, right after my mother died. I am trying to get ahold of the bank it is with and see if I can get something to tell us where it went. Even then if it says a place name, you really don't know what was purchased and sometimes you wonder who was the one that bought it. You may both frequent that store. I'm trying to remember if he charged our son's truck repair on that card. The kid was responsible for paying for it but I was not the one keeping track. Yes I think he is just using the card as a blaming things to keep me off his back with what is really not happening. He doesn't seem to be putting any effort into working things out, except going to the MC.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

827Aug said:


> It sounds like the shopping is a smoke screen. He's using that as an excuse. Do you ever see this itemized credit card bill? That sounds suspicious as well. If you don't have the credit card, it makes me wonder what the charges are--and how he can even blame you.


Exactly. That is the biggest line of bs I have heard in a long time. I cheated because you spent too much? Wow. 
A dear friend of mine who is now divorced (thank God) got this "reason" for why her husband cheated: "You spent $700 on the dog". A dog who was vomiting blood. He spent $36k on a motorcycle but yeah, $700 to save the family pet was the reason he cheated. Idiot.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I don't know, NZ, it sounds like if she "corrected" the spending, he'd just find something ELSE to b***h about.

My dad's the same way.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

NZ that is exactly what I am doing now. Yesterday I started a normal/usual list of what I need to restock, macaroni, spaghetti, soups, etc. Things you keep on hand to make almost anything. Would probably spend $100 with milk, eggs, bread, veggies. 

Then I decided to make a 4 or 5 day menu, trying to use what I have and buy only the neccesary items to get thru those days. 
I will try it that way and see if it works. Problem is that if someone gets a hunger pain they grab things without thinking and then I don't have complete meals. I would rather they grab a handful of veggies or nuts instead. Out of habit of never having to budget what they eat, they don't think about what they are doing to the grocery bill. 

This should make him think about it, plus he gets to do the shopping and I don't handle money and get the blame for overspending. smiles


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

heartbroken1957 said:


> NZ that is exactly what I am doing now. Yesterday I started a normal/usual list of what I need to restock, macaroni, spaghetti, soups, etc. Things you keep on hand to make almost anything. Would probably spend $100 with milk, eggs, bread, veggies.
> 
> Then I decided to make a 4 or 5 day menu, trying to use what I have and buy only the neccesary items to get thru those days.
> I will try it that way and see if it works. Problem is that if someone gets a hunger pain they grab things without thinking and then I don't have complete meals. I would rather they grab a handful of veggies or nuts instead. Out of habit of never having to budget what they eat, they don't think about what they are doing to the grocery bill.
> ...


Look, this is not about you overspending. This is merely an excuse he uses to blame you with. If it wasn't this, it would be something else. This is typical cheater behavior and comes out of the cheating script. This is to justify the cheating to himself by blaming you and to keep you blaming yourself. Why are you putting up with this?


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

lordmayhem said:


> Look, this is not about you overspending. This is merely an excuse he uses to blame you with. If it wasn't this, it would be something else. This is typical cheater behavior and comes out of the cheating script. This is to justify the cheating to himself by blaming you and to keep you blaming yourself. Why are you putting up with this?


:iagree: It's called a smoke screen. Those of us on the outside looking in can see this. Focus on that mysterious credit card with the big balance--the one you haven't used. The one you haven't seen an itemized list on. There's the answer to the real spending.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

Mayhem, I don't see it as putting up with it. What I'm doing is putting more and more responsability in his lap. When He gets out there in the store and sees what things cost then perhaps he will see for himself that todays $20 doesn't get much. 

I am not or will not accept ANY excuse for the affair. He weakly thought "poor me" "I need some affection" He discovered that playng the Poor baby act got his ego stroked, so he stepped a little further and bam got knocked on his a**. 

What I dislike the most is that the common consensous is that the LS got complacent/lazy about keeping the marriage hot. 
Well I don't accept that. 
We had a talk Weds morning. He actually did appoligize the way I have been wanting to hear. With tightness in his throat and hurt in his eyes. It said I really did hurt you and I am soooo sorry. 
I told him I was not accepting fault for the marriage prior to the affair. He agreed he could have spoke up instead of spending 3 yrs pushing me and kids away.


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## EmeraldEyez (Jun 17, 2011)

No, after 5yrs of the original d-day of multiple A's, mine to this day has never begged for forgiveness, showed remorse, in fact he gets mad at me when I have the "audacity" to express that I'm still hurt. His comments range from "oh, you and your drama", "here we go again", "I can't change the past, so what the H*ll do you want me to do?", "I'm not going to deal with this anymore, if you don't just get over it, we're done" and on and on. He's never, ever said he was sorry, he's never comforted me when I'm hurting. ... Yeah, I know...I'm a stupid fool...but what else is new.


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

incognitoman said:


> Forgiving yourself is a huge part of healing. I'm sure you feel resentment and want to sit there and have her continue to feel nothing but remorse for the rest of her life ... for now. She wounded herself too when she betrayed you. She has to forgive so that she can grow and move on too. Moving on doesn't mean moving out tho. It means not dwelling on things that she can't change, would you really want her to just be in the same spot? If you want your marriage to work you need to accept her human faults, and she needs to accept those too. It doesn't sound like the therapist is saying for her to move out, only that she needs to forgive herself. It will accomplish nothing for her to try and make you forgive her. You need to do that on your own if you choose to. I can tell you tho, holding onto that pain will only ruin you. Let it go for your own peace of mind.


i asked my therapist about what hers had said.
she said, if my wife learns what it is to forgive herself, then she recognizes that she truly did wrong. it and the emtions and guilt become real. right now shes just regurgitating the words with out real meaning behind them, but when she truyly understands what they mean, all the other emotions and feeling will come into play.

that is to say, shen she learns to forgive herself, shell learn what she actually did.

then a chance at reconcilliation can happen, then it can become remorse, not just guilt.

now that i understand it that way, it can make it easier for me.


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## lala1978 (Jul 21, 2011)

I am still waiting for mine to breakdown.. It has been 15 months. We have been in MC for a year, we have not talked about it there because emotions still running too high. I did not get it at first, why we were not talkign about it, but now i can see it would turn so ugly so fast. 

i use to beg him to read books, go to websites, anything to jump start his thinking about what he did.. no such luck. My IC said I was managing him and I needed to stop. He was going to either fail or succeed but i had to let him do it on his own.

He has such anger issues from other stuff in his past. I feel like the affair has been put on the back burner...


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## Sparkles422 (Jun 3, 2011)

I never got an apology and never expected one. X rarely apologized for anything, he could do no wrong. It was all me and that is why he had an EA.

The morning of the divorce, I told him why I was divorcing him: Because of the EA., because you used my pain and sense of betrayal to fuel the lust, because you lied and lied, because you are now untrustworthy and because of your callousness about my pain. This is why I am divorcing you.

I admire all of you who stayed with it. I, myself, could never trust this person again because he never owned up to it and tried to make me believe it was my imagination and all of my fault anyway. 

Good luck both paths are painful.


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