# Is oral a given for most?



## southbound

I recently saw a few minutes of a female comedian, Nikki Glaser, and she was doing a stand-up routine about when females first discover that bj’s are something they will be doing in life. She said she first thought maybe it was something that not every woman does, but then you realize it’s something you’ll be doing as a woman. She even went into the choice of swallow or spit. 

This was all a comedy routine, but it did make me curious, are bj’s really something that is considered a normal act for women? This may sound strange coming from a guy, but I can honestly see where that wouldn’t be every woman’s cup of tea, just like bondage isn’t for everybody. Are bj’s considered a common practice among most couples who have a great relationship, and is it something most women don’t mind?


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## manwithnoname

Sometimes it's a given, sometimes it's a received.


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## RebuildingMe

For me, no bjs = no relationship. Ever.


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## Marduk

Even 20 years ago when I was dating, no enthusiastic BJs meant that we didn’t date.

Getting into a relationship with someone closed sexually is a slow death. Been there, done that.


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## CharlieParker

Intercourse is for making babies. What do BJs make? Careers.

Yes, it’s something that basic. Doesn’t have to happen every time. Doesn’t have to be to completion (spit or swallow, meh) every time. But it does have to happen from time to time.


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## Deejo

They are a given should you decide they are.

I dated a woman that made it clear she did not enjoy or provide oral.

I didnt question or challenge that position. Her choice.

My choice, was to no longer date her.

From my perspective, oral is a a pedestrian part of the sexual menu.


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## uhtred

I think of oral (women on men and men on women) as a standard sexual act. Doesn't mean its "required" in some global sense, but its something I enjoy so if I were dating, a woman who didn't enjoy it would be a cause for concern. 

Not about "right or wrong", just whether or not people are compatible.


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## HorseShowMom

In my rather limited experience, oral is 100% a given as far as ladies giving bjs. I’ve never been on the receiving end, so I’m thinking that’s probably less common. Im also realizing that I have questionable taste in men. Lol.

But, I have to point out there’s a definite convenience factor when it comes to bjs. Think about it..
Road trip? Out on the boat? At a party? Boring work thing? It’s waaaay easier to slip off for a quick oral servicing if you’re an outie vs. an innie. Plus, with the option to swallow, cleanup is a breeze. 

I’m a fan, in general. If he’s not too aggressive about it, I’m in! More for the fun and satisfaction of knowing I can get him off any old time I want to. (Not exactly speaking to my current situation... but there have been some fun times!)


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## MJJEAN

southbound said:


> Are bj’s considered a common practice among most couples who have a great relationship, and is it something most women don’t mind?


I can't speak for all women, but bj's are something I consider as standard common practice. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I didn't both give and receive oral as it's something I very much enjoy. That said, I did not perform oral on all of my partners. Some I just wasn't into that way. Others I could barely contain myself.


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## CharlieParker

HorseShowMom said:


> But, I have to point out there’s a definite convenience factor when it comes to bjs. Think about it..
> Road trip? Out on the boat? At a party? Boring work thing? It’s waaaay easier to slip off for a quick oral servicing if you’re an outie vs. an innie. Plus, with the option to swallow, cleanup is a breeze.


Our code phase for this is “shall we be hygienic?”, works both ways.


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## Faithful Wife

Yes, they have to give oral or I’m out.


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## notmyjamie

Based on the number of men who say that they stopped getting them after marriage I’d say it’s not a given that it will be in a woman’s life forever. 

As a woman I’d say that a man and woman’s bodies interlock in a limited number of ways and how boring would it be to take one of those ways completely off the table? Not to mention, I think it’s ridiculous to make a man believe you’re one way about it, then get that ring on your finger and say “ha ha...that wasn’t the real me!” No bueno. 

Just my humble opinion though.


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## Numb26

notmyjamie said:


> Based on the number of men who say that they stopped getting them after marriage I’d say it’s not a given that it will be in a woman’s life forever.
> 
> As a woman I’d say that a man and woman’s bodies interlock in a limited number of ways and how boring would it be to take one of those ways completely off the table? Not to mention, I think it’s ridiculous to make a man believe you’re one way about it, then get that ring on your finger and say “ha ha...that wasn’t the real me!” No bueno.
> 
> Just my humble opinion though.


Classic example of the "bait and switch".

Oral is a must for me (both giving and receiving). Have left previous relationships because of that


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Sounds like it's a given fir most humans. Apparently Yetis, not so much:frown2:


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## Diana7

Marduk said:


> Even 20 years ago when I was dating, no enthusiastic BJs meant that we didn’t date.
> 
> Getting into a relationship with someone closed sexually is a slow death. Been there, done that.


What makes you think that a woman who wont do blow jobs is closed sexually? She may well be happy to do all sorts of other things but not that.


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## Diana7

I am always amazed at how so many seem to base their choice of a partner on one or two things that they will or wont do sexually. For me my choice of partner is based on so many more things, oral sex or not oral sex is not something I would ever end a good relationship over.


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## Lila

Diana7 said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even 20 years ago when I was dating, no enthusiastic BJs meant that we didn’t date.
> 
> Getting into a relationship with someone closed sexually is a slow death. Been there, done that.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that a woman who wont do blow jobs is closed sexually? She may well be happy to do all sorts of other things but not that.
Click to expand...

Must be the full moon but I actually agree with you @Diana7. ;-D I too try to judge people based on the idea that the whole is greater that than the sum of their parts. 

As far as sexual acts go, I don't allow semen in my mouth. I don't hold it against anyone if they judge me as a sexual reject. To me it's a compatibility issue. If it means so much for them to have a woman who let's them cum in their mouth, then who am I to judge. They just won't get to enjoy the other 100 things I do enjoy doing.


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## Wolfman1968

Reminds me of an old joke:

Why is the bride smiling when she walks down the aisle?

Because she knows she's given her last BJ.


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## MaiChi

I like giving it when it is wanted and sometimes when it is not necessary wanted but I am in the mood to give it. But I do not like getting it regularly. I will have it now and then but not like it all the time. It is too intense and stops me giving back anything.


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## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> I am always amazed at how so many seem to base their choice of a partner on one or two things that they will or wont do sexually. For me my choice of partner is based on so many more things, oral sex or not oral sex is not something I would ever end a good relationship over.


Why are you amazed? Picking a partner based on how compatible they are with you (whether it be sexual or nonsexual), is probably the most important factor in a healthy relationship. Everyone is different and looks for different things in a relationship that are important. In my case, I learned a very important lesson, never settle for less then what you want/need. It leads to resentment and unhappiness.


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## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even 20 years ago when I was dating, no enthusiastic BJs meant that we didn’t date.
> 
> Getting into a relationship with someone closed sexually is a slow death. Been there, done that.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that a woman who wont do blow jobs is closed sexually? She may well be happy to do all sorts of other things but not that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must be the full moon but I actually agree with you @Diana7. ;-D I too try to judge people based on the idea that the whole is greater that than the sum of their parts.
> 
> As far as sexual acts go, I don't allow semen in my mouth. I don't hold it against anyone if they judge me as a sexual reject. To me it's a compatibility issue. If it means so much for them to have a woman who let's them cum in their mouth, then who am I to judge. They just won't get to enjoy the other 100 things I do enjoy doing.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don’t go there either. And in my experience most guys don’t “expect” it. They hope you will but it’s not a requirement. I haven’t had any complaints.


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## southbound

Diana7 said:


> I am always amazed at how so many seem to base their choice of a partner on one or two things that they will or wont do sexually. For me my choice of partner is based on so many more things, oral sex or not oral sex is not something I would ever end a good relationship over.


I must say, I have been enlightened. Honestly, I never realized a woman not giving bjs alone could be a dealbreaker. Well, I’m sure it could be for some, but I didn’t realize it was so common, especially when there might be 100 other things she would do.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> I am always amazed at how so many seem to base their choice of a partner on one or two things that they will or wont do sexually. For me my choice of partner is based on so many more things, oral sex or not oral sex is not something I would ever end a good relationship over.


I am always amazed when people accuse others of basing their choice of one or two things (and for some reason it always seems to be men and sex).

Judt because something is deemed important.... even important enough to be a deal breaker.... doesn't mean that's the ONLY thing under consideration.

Of course we take the whole package into account. But if ANY of a number of essential elements is missing, it's not going to be a match. That doesn't mean that was the ONLY essential element.

You have said that you would never be with a man who watches porn. Nobody would ever accuse you of thinking you ONLY choose a man based on his attitude toward pornography.

If a woman ends a relationship with a man because he refuses to work, we dont say she ONLY wanted him for his income. She just wants someone who is willing to be a partner and adequate contributor to the family finances.


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## Lila

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amazed at how so many seem to base their choice of a partner on one or two things that they will or wont do sexually. For me my choice of partner is based on so many more things, oral sex or not oral sex is not something I would ever end a good relationship over.
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amazed when people accuse others of basing their choice of one or two things (and for some reason it always seems to be men and sex).
> 
> Judt because something is deemed important.... even important enough to be a deal breaker.... doesn't mean that's the ONLY thing under consideration.
> 
> Of course we take the whole package into account. But if ANY of a number of essential elements is missing, it's not going to be a match. That doesn't mean that was the ONLY essential element.
> 
> You have said that you would never be with a man who watches porn. Nobody would ever accuse you of thinking you ONLY choose a man based on his attitude toward pornography.
> 
> *If a woman ends a relationship with a man because he refuses to work, we dont say she ONLY wanted him for his income. * She just wants someone who is willing to be a partner and adequate contributor to the family finances.
Click to expand...

To be fair, I think the equivalent comparison would be a woman who ends a relationship with a man ONLY because he refuses to do one specific task for employment (he works, brings home an income but refuses to do one specific task.... Restocking shelves for example).


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah I don’t go there either. And in my experience most guys don’t “expect” it. They hope you will but it’s not a requirement. I haven’t had any complaints.


No one has come out and told me "sorry, no swallowing no dating" but then again maybe that's what they were thinking when they chose not to see me again after discussing boundaries. 

I do know men for whom this is VERY important. They will willingly overlook huge (IMO massive) red flags to have a women who enjoys giving BJs, will gurgle their jizz, and swallow it like melted marshmallow. To each their own.


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## Numb26

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amazed at how so many seem to base their choice of a partner on one or two things that they will or wont do sexually. For me my choice of partner is based on so many more things, oral sex or not oral sex is not something I would ever end a good relationship over.
> 
> 
> 
> I am always amazed when people accuse others of basing their choice of one or two things (and for some reason it always seems to be men and sex).
> 
> Judt because something is deemed important.... even important enough to be a deal breaker.... doesn't mean that's the ONLY thing under consideration.
> 
> Of course we take the whole package into account. But if ANY of a number of essential elements is missing, it's not going to be a match. That doesn't mean that was the ONLY essential element.
> 
> You have said that you would never be with a man who watches porn. Nobody would ever accuse you of thinking you ONLY choose a man based on his attitude toward pornography.
> 
> If a woman ends a relationship with a man because he refuses to work, we dont say she ONLY wanted him for his income. She just wants someone who is willing to be a partner and adequate contributor to the family finances.
Click to expand...

I agree. Seems to me that if men have any specific sexual act that they enjoy and look for in a relationship to ensure compatibility it is automatically deemed a "character flaw". And yes, in my case it was just the last straw in other missing things in the relationship


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> To be fair, I think the equivalent comparison would be a woman who ends a relationship with a man ONLY because he refuses to do one specific task for employment (he works, brings home an income but refuses to do one specific task.... Restocking shelves for example).


Yeah, it's not a perfect analogy. Hopefully it still helps explain the idea that just because something's a deal breaker, doesn't mean it's the ONLY thing.


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## Lila

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yeah, it's not a perfect analogy. Hopefully it still helps explain the idea that just because something's a deal breaker, doesn't mean it's the ONLY thing.


It may not be for you but others on this thread have said that it IS a dealbreaker. That's who @Diana7's comment was directed to.


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## badsanta

southbound said:


> I recently saw a few minutes of a female comedian, Nikki Glaser...


I watched that on Netflix. The whole time I was thinking, perhaps I am that ONE guy that does not like BJs or something. Everything she said sounded so gross, disturbing, and down right abusive towards women. 

If a guy has to grab a woman's head... umm isn't that just jerking off with her face (as in assisted masturbation by using your wife's face as a toy or something)? Can't see how that is enjoyable for anyone involved... 

Regards,
Badsanta


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## BioFury

Diana7 said:


> What makes you think that a woman who wont do blow jobs is closed sexually? She may well be happy to do all sorts of other things but not that.


If a man screams at you when he gets angry while dating, it may not mean he'll become physically abusive later on. But it's a glimpse of his disposition. 

Similarly, a woman would be revealing that she is uncomfortable with a routine sexual act. Whatever the reason, the thought process, just as with man-who-screams, is "If he/she is doing this now when she's trying to impress me, what's she going to be doing in 5 years after we're married and have 2 kids? How will this pattern/behavior evolve and progress?"

Not favorably. At least, that's what a lot of people's experience has taught us.



Lila said:


> They will willingly overlook huge (IMO massive) red flags to have a women who enjoys giving BJs, will gurgle their jizz, and swallow it like melted marshmallow. To each their own.


Lol. If I may ask, is your distaste for the substance based on it's taste/consistency then?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> It may not be for you but others on this thread have said that it IS a dealbreaker. That's who @Diana7's comment was directed to.


Yes, I have seen the posts that say explicitly that that is a deal breaker. But that still in no way implies that it is the ONLY thing they're interested in. They're still interested in the totality of the package regarding any potential partner, and oral being a deal breaker in no way diminishes any other requirements or expectations. 

Here I speak in most cases. I dont disagree that there are some guys who will, as you say, ignore other massive red flags if they're getting that. What I object to is the automatic assumption that that is the case.


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## Lila

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may not be for you but others on this thread have said that it IS a dealbreaker. That's who @Diana7's comment was directed to.
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, I have seen the posts that say explicitly that that is a deal breaker. But that still in no way implies that it is the ONLY thing they're interested in. They're still interested in the totality of the package regarding any potential partner, and oral being a deal breaker in no way diminishes any other requirements or expectations. *
> 
> Here I speak in most cases. I dont disagree that there are some guys who will, as you say, ignore other massive red flags if they're getting that. What I object to is the automatic assumption that that is the case.
Click to expand...

Maybe I don't share the same definition of deal breaker that you have. Can you explain what a deal breaker means to you? A deal breaker to me means that there will be no deal unless that thing is on the table. So when I hear someone say "no oral sex, no relationship" I take that to mean if there's no oral sex then they won't proceed with the relationship, period.


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## Lila

BioFury said:


> Lol. If I may ask, is your distaste for the substance based on it's taste/consistency then?


All of the above 😄.


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## BioFury

Lila said:


> All of the above 😄.


So, hypothetically, you could wash it down with something and it'd be fine?

Not that you need to or anything. Guess I'm just thinking, if you know guys will find this off-putting, why make it an issue if it has a work-around?


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## TAMAT

Marduke wrote, *Getting into a relationship with someone closed sexually is a slow death*

And it's even slower when you find out it's something which really turns your W on, just not with you.


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## Wolfman1968

Lila said:


> To be fair, I think the equivalent comparison would be a woman who ends a relationship with a man ONLY because he refuses to do one specific task for employment (he works, brings home an income but refuses to do one specific task.... Restocking shelves for example).



I don't think that is an equivalent comparison, because sexual intimacy is key to a marriage. You can get friendship, emotional support, a companion for social activities, etc. from your family or friends, but sexual intimacy is reserved for your spouse/partner.

Your restocking shelves analogy would be more comparable to a man ending a relationship with a woman who won't cook. She may do other things, (assuming traditional roles) like be a great housekeeper, great mother, great wife and companion otherwise, but won't/can't cook. There are other options, such as the guy cooking, getting take-out, hiring a person for meal prep, store-bought convenience food, etc. But nothing compares to the irreplaceability of sexual intimacy.

A more analogous comparison would be a woman breaking off a relationship with a man because HE refused to do oral, and PIV sex doesn't bring her to orgasm. Or, perhaps a woman who breaks off with a man because his "equipment" doesn't measure up (the problem with that analogy, is that there is absolutely nothing a guy can do about his anatomy, whereas refusal to do oral may be less irremediable).


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## Lila

BioFury said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of the above 😄.
> 
> 
> 
> So, hypothetically, you could wash it down with something and it'd be fine?
> 
> Not that you need to or anything. Guess I'm just thinking, if you know guys will find this off-putting, why make it an issue if it has a work-around?
Click to expand...

Nope. Texture, volume, and taste are all a problem for me.


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## Lila

Wolfman1968 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, I think the equivalent comparison would be a woman who ends a relationship with a man ONLY because he refuses to do one specific task for employment (he works, brings home an income but refuses to do one specific task.... Restocking shelves for example).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that is an equivalent comparison, because sexual intimacy is key to a marriage. You can get friendship, emotional support, a companion for social activities, etc. from your family or friends, but sexual intimacy is reserved for your spouse/partner.
> 
> Your restocking shelves analogy would be more comparable to a man ending a relationship with a woman who won't cook. She may do other things, (assuming traditional roles) like be a great housekeeper, great mother, great wife and companion otherwise, but won't/can't cook. There are other options, such as the guy cooking, getting take-out, hiring a person for meal prep, store-bought convenience food, etc. But nothing compares to the irreplaceability of sexual intimacy.
> 
> A more analogous comparison would be a woman breaking off a relationship with a man because HE refused to do oral, and PIV sex doesn't bring her to orgasm. Or, perhaps a woman who breaks off with a man because his "equipment" doesn't measure up (the problem with that analogy, is that there is absolutely nothing a guy can do about his anatomy, whereas refusal to do oral may be less irremediable).
Click to expand...

I could sit here and debate which analogy is better but I won't. Suffice it to say, to some oral sex is a deal breaker. To others putting that much emphasis on one sexual act is near sighted. Those two worlds will never see eye to eye. There are pros and cons to both.


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## Wolfman1968

Lila said:


> I could sit here and debate which analogy is better but I won't. Suffice it to say, to some oral sex is a deal breaker. To others putting that much emphasis on one sexual act is near sighted. Those two worlds will never see eye to eye. There are pros and cons to both.



That's fine. It's not worth any back and forth debate.

I'd just point out that there is a special section for "Sex in Marriage" on TAM with lots of threads about oral sex, but not a "Failure to Restock Shelves" section. Maybe there's a reason for that?


(Note: I am not saying that oral sex is good or bad, or that people have to do anything they are not comfortable with. I am just saying that Sexual Intimacy is a HUGE component of marriage, and so some analogy with "stocking shelves" misses the point entirely.)


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> Maybe I don't share the same definition of deal breaker that you have. Can you explain what a deal breaker means to you? A deal breaker to me means that there will be no deal unless that thing is on the table. So when I hear someone say "no oral sex, no relationship" I take that to mean if there's no oral sex then they won't proceed with the relationship, period.


Looks like we have the same definition. Your statement here explains "deal breaker" perfectly.


My point is that having a deal breaker doesn't mean that that one thing is the only thing of importance or the only thing you're looking for in a relationship

Let's set bjs aside aside for a second and just say sex in general. You provably probably wouldn't accept a long term romantic relationship with a man who wouldnt have sex with. That would be a deal breaker. But that in no way implies that sex is the ONLY thing you want out of the relationship.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TAMAT said:


> Marduke wrote, *Getting into a relationship with someone closed sexually is a slow death*
> 
> And it's even slower when you find out it's something which really turns your W on, just not with you.


Wouldn't that make it faster? After all , if you find that to be the case, then it's clearly obvious you need to jettison the relationship and start fresh. It's when you think that's just the way she is that it drags on to the slow agonizing death until it's too late to revover.


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## BioFury

Lila said:


> Nope. Texture, volume, and taste are all a problem for me.


Sounds like a funny origin story? :grin2:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Wolfman1968 said:


> That's fine. It's not worth any back and forth debate.
> 
> I'd just point out that there is a special section for "Sex in Marriage" on TAM with lots of threads about oral sex, but not a "Failure to Restock Shelves" section. Maybe there's a reason for that?


Actually, the Sex in Marriage forum is for people seeking help on a specific sexual issue in their own relationship. General discussions like this are not allowed in that forum and get shut down whenever started.


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## arbitrator

Faithful Wife said:


> *Yes, they have to give oral or I’m out.*


*In my book, oral, in both giving and receiving, are mandatory prerequisites for a loving relationship! Outside of the presence of a verifiable medical malady, failure to perform oral, both in giving and receiving, is definitely grounds for a relationships dissolution!

All too often, people will use oral as bait to snare a mate, but soon after the nuptials, they seem to conveniently forget how to perform, as ravenously as they did when they were single, either out of indifference or fear!

And this usually goes for both genders!*


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## Lila

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I don't share the same definition of deal breaker that you have. Can you explain what a deal breaker means to you? A deal breaker to me means that there will be no deal unless that thing is on the table. So when I hear someone say "no oral sex, no relationship" I take that to mean if there's no oral sex then they won't proceed with the relationship, period.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like we have the same definition. Your statement here explains "deal breaker" perfectly.
> 
> 
> My point is that having a deal breaker doesn't mean that that one thing is the only thing of importance or the only thing you're looking for in a relationship
> 
> Let's set bjs aside aside for a second and just say sex in general. You provably probably wouldn't accept a long term romantic relationship with a man who wouldnt have sex with. That would be a deal breaker. But that in no way implies that sex is the ONLY thing you want out of the relationship.
Click to expand...

I get that but again, the thread topic is about oral sex. Some people have posted that it IS a deal breaker for a relationship. I am basing my opinion on what they posted. They didn't say no sex (in general) was a deal breaker. They said "no oral sex" is a deal breaker. I believe them when they say that. Even if they found someone who performed 101 other sexual acts, people who make "no oral sex" a deal breaker would not be compatible with people who do not like giving/receiving oral sex.


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## Lila

BioFury said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Texture, volume, and taste are all a problem for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a funny origin story? <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a>
Click to expand...

Not really. It's just like anything else in life. We're all unique creatures with different likes/dislikes.


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## arbitrator

Lila said:


> I get that but again, the thread topic is about oral sex. Some people have posted that it IS a deal breaker for a relationship. I am basing my opinion on what they posted. They didn't say no sex (in general) was a deal breaker. They said "no oral sex" is a deal breaker. I believe them when they say that. Even if they found someone who performed 101 other sexual acts, people who make "no oral sex" a deal breaker would not be compatible with people who do not like giving/receiving oral sex.


*But In all fairness, isn't oral sex, considered to be "sex?"

What is repugnant about it, other than for one's fear? *


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## Lila

arbitrator said:


> *But In all fairness, isn't oral sex, considered to be "sex?"
> 
> What is repugnant about it, other than for one's fear? *


Oral sex is form of sexual intercourse but there are lots of different types of sexual intercourse. 

I'm not sure why someone would find it repugnant but if they do, then I'm not going to try to convince them otherwise. That's their preference. I have my own.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> I get that but again, the thread topic is about oral sex. Some people have posted that it IS a deal breaker for a relationship. I am basing my opinion on what they posted. They didn't say no sex (in general) was a deal breaker. They said "no oral sex" is a deal breaker. I believe them when they say that. Even if they found someone who performed 101 other sexual acts, people who make "no oral sex" a deal breaker would not be compatible with people who do not like giving/receiving oral sex.


The thread topic is about oral sex... but that still doesn't mean that it's the ONLY thing these men be their relationships on. Even if it is a deal breaker, it is not the ONLY thing. My point in mentioning no sex is that if no sex can be a deal breaker without someone saying sex is the only thing, why can't someone say no bjs is a deal breaker without being accused of bjs being their only thing? 

Recall how this line of discussion started when Diana expressed dismay that men would base their relationships on "one or two things." My response is simply that a man may decide he's not going to live without bjs and that doesn't necessarily mean he's basing and relationship solely on bjs. He's obviously decided it's important, bu that in no way implies it's the only important thing.


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## Lila

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get that but again, the thread topic is about oral sex. Some people have posted that it IS a deal breaker for a relationship. I am basing my opinion on what they posted. They didn't say no sex (in general) was a deal breaker. They said "no oral sex" is a deal breaker. I believe them when they say that. Even if they found someone who performed 101 other sexual acts, people who make "no oral sex" a deal breaker would not be compatible with people who do not like giving/receiving oral sex.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread topic is about oral sex... but that still doesn't mean that it's the ONLY thing these men be their relationships on. Even if it is a deal breaker, it is not the ONLY thing. My point in mentioning no sex is that if no sex can be a deal breaker without someone saying sex is the only thing, why can't someone say no bjs is a deal breaker without being accused of bjs being their only thing?
> 
> Recall how this line of discussion started when Diana expressed dismay that men would base their relationships on "one or two things." My response is simply that a man may decide he's not going to live without bjs and that doesn't necessarily mean he's basing and relationship solely on bjs. He's obviously decided it's important, bu that in no way implies it's the only important thing.
Click to expand...

You and I disagree on deal breakers.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> You and I disagree on deal breakers.


I dont see how. You gave a definition of a deal breaker and I agreed with your definition completely. We are in 100% agreement on that.


----------



## badsanta

Lila said:


> As far as sexual acts go, I don't allow semen in my mouth. I don't hold it against anyone if they judge me as a sexual reject. To me it's a compatibility issue. If it means so much for them to have a woman who let's them cum in their mouth, then who am I to judge. They just won't get to enjoy the other 100 things I do enjoy doing.


According to Schnarch, men that seek other-partner validation for their sense of self are the one's that struggle with a partner that do not want his semen in her mouth. 

There are multiple chapters in this new book I am reading on oral sex. For example many women struggle with transitioning from PIV to giving oral on a partner simply because she does not want to taste her own vagina. Schnarch suggests that women need to get over this, but in parallel he also suggests that men should also have no problems with a women that wants to put some of his own semen in his mouth. 

Touché Schnarch! 

Thought you might like this in case you ever need to use it in a debate!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## southbound

badsanta said:


> There are multiple chapters in this new book I am reading on oral sex. For example many women struggle with transitioning from PIV to giving oral on a partner simply because she does not want to taste her own vagina. Schnarch suggests that women need to get over this, but in parallel he also suggests that men should also have no problems with a women that wants to put some of his own semen in his mouth.
> 
> Touché Schnarch!
> 
> Thought you might like this in case you ever need to use it in a debate!
> 
> Cheers,
> Badsanta


I will pass on oral after piv myself. Not my cup of tea. Oral has always come first.


----------



## pastasauce79

Lila said:


> Not really. It's just like anything else in life. We're all unique creatures with different likes/dislikes.


I feel the same way. I don't like it in my mouth and won't swallow it either. 

I would do anything for love, but I won't do that...0


----------



## badsanta

southbound said:


> I will pass on oral after piv myself. Not my cup of tea. *Oral has always come first.*


Regarding someone not wanting to taste themself... I am guessing if oral is done before PIV and everyone participates and reciprocates, then no more kissing each another passionately during intercourse? 

Now that beings me back to college days! Guy happily goes down on his lady and then later when he goes to give her a kiss, she recoils and gives him a wince. Then she points next to the bed.... 

_Is that why all the female college dorm rooms had a mirror and sink right next to the bed? So that the ladies could easily tell us guys to brush our teeth and wash our face in between foreplay and piv? _



Badsanta

PS: I can see the college engineering and architectural department now.... "yes, put that sink right next to her bed! She will need it as close as possible!"


----------



## RebuildingMe

I’m upstate with the in laws this weekend. No alone time with my wife. Just her and I head into town last night to pick up a few things. On the way she tells me to pull over and gives me a bj in the car. No mess, no clean up. We go back to the cabin. Despite our other “issues”, it’s treatment like that, her satisfying a need that keeps us rocking. Did I mention I can home from work earlier this week with flowers for her? Maybe there was a connection between the two?


----------



## CharlieParker

southbound said:


> I will pass on oral after piv myself. Not my cup of tea. Oral has always come first.


The way I see it, if it’s OK for her to take it in her mouth then I certainly can’t say no. She’s a bit weirded out by it so she tries to clean up as much as possible.


----------



## arbitrator

*Oral is off limits to me post sex, only after ejaculation has occurred or while my lady is on her period! Other than that, it's fine! 

And by the way, at least for me, anal is definitely off the table ~ no way!

Remembering one gal back in grad school who wanted to continue post-coital, cleaned herself up with tissues right afterward, but I just had absolutely no real desire to go back down there once I was in the afterglow of orgasmic ecstasy!

Never really had a problem, however, with either of us wanting to kiss each other during oral sex or during intercourse! *


----------



## uhtred

Men giving women oral is very common as well - and should be balanced in a relationship (if both want it). Maybe since its often quicker for women to do it for men, that might happen more often, but men doing it for women should last longer. Roughly the same amount of time doing both seems reasonably fair to me. 

BTW - your husband so much DOES NOT DESERVE YOU. With all the other horrible ways he treats you, he doesn't even do this for you? 

When you find someone else, you will discover that there are many men who *really* enjoy pleasing their partners. 






HorseShowMom said:


> In my rather limited experience, oral is 100% a given as far as ladies giving bjs. I’ve never been on the receiving end, so I’m thinking that’s probably less common. Im also realizing that I have questionable taste in men. Lol.
> snip


----------



## Marduk

Diana7 said:


> What makes you think that a woman who wont do blow jobs is closed sexually? She may well be happy to do all sorts of other things but not that.


Sure, but it’s something I like, and after being married to someone very closed, I knew what I didn’t want.

And I personally have never met a woman closed to BJs but open to much else. But maybe that’s just me.


----------



## Marduk

Faithful Wife said:


> Yeah I don’t go there either. And in my experience most guys don’t “expect” it. They hope you will but it’s not a requirement. I haven’t had any complaints.


Yep.


----------



## uhtred

I think its all about compatibility. Its fine for people to want what they want, and not do what they don't want. Hopefully they learn early on if there is enough overlap for them to be happy together. 

So I agree with you - but there may be a fair number of people for whom oral is so fundamental to sex that they won't give it up, even for those 100 other things. 




Lila said:


> Must be the full moon but I actually agree with you @Diana7. ;-D I too try to judge people based on the idea that the whole is greater that than the sum of their parts.
> 
> As far as sexual acts go, I don't allow semen in my mouth. I don't hold it against anyone if they judge me as a sexual reject. To me it's a compatibility issue. If it means so much for them to have a woman who let's them cum in their mouth, then who am I to judge. They just won't get to enjoy the other 100 things I do enjoy doing.


----------



## uhtred

Think of a chain of many links. No one link is the "most important" but all are needed. For some people oral sex is one of those links. Most people have many links that they need in order to have a happy relationship.

But I think "deal breaker" means a link in the chain - something that you need in order to be happy in a relationship. (but not the most important thing). 

No judgement - its just about compatibility. 





Lila said:


> Maybe I don't share the same definition of deal breaker that you have. Can you explain what a deal breaker means to you? A deal breaker to me means that there will be no deal unless that thing is on the table. So when I hear someone say "no oral sex, no relationship" I take that to mean if there's no oral sex then they won't proceed with the relationship, period.


----------



## Personal

southbound said:


> Are bj’s considered a common practice among most couples who have a great relationship, and is it something most women don’t mind?


Throughout all of my longer sexual relationships, it has always been a frequent thing including oral for my partners as well.

That said I don't know how common it is for others.


----------



## Personal

Marduk said:


> Even 20 years ago when I was dating, no enthusiastic BJs meant that we didn’t date.


Same.


----------



## Personal

MJJEAN said:


> I can't speak for all women, but bj's are something I consider as standard common practice. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I didn't both give and receive oral as it's something I very much enjoy.


That's how I feel about it.


----------



## Marduk

TAMAT said:


> Marduke wrote, *Getting into a relationship with someone closed sexually is a slow death*
> 
> And it's even slower when you find out it's something which really turns your W on, just not with you.


For me, this would mean that she wasn’t that into me and I’d likely move on. Unless it was something I didn’t really care about or want, and she used to be into it and now isn’t. That kind of thing. People can change.

But if she still liked it but not with me... I’d probably head for the hills.


----------



## Numb26

Marduk said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that a woman who wont do blow jobs is closed sexually? She may well be happy to do all sorts of other things but not that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, but it’s something I like, and after being married to someone very closed, I knew what I didn’t want.
> 
> And I personally have never met a woman closed to BJs but open to much else. But maybe that’s just me.
Click to expand...

I agree. If a woman is so opposed to oral I find it hard to believe she would do "100's of other acts".


----------



## Personal

Lila said:


> As far as sexual acts go, I don't allow semen in my mouth. I don't hold it against anyone if they judge me as a sexual reject. To me it's a compatibility issue. If it means so much for them to have a woman who let's them cum in their mouth, then who am I to judge. They just won't get to enjoy the other 100 things I do enjoy doing.


If my wife didn't enthusiastically give me oral sex, take cum facials, swallow my sperm, or hold it in her mouth, drool it onto her boobs etc. Amongst many other sexual and non-sexual wants. We wouldn't have gotten married, let alone dated for very long.

That said from the age of 17 onward, I've been use to all of that being standard stuff.


----------



## Personal

Wolfman1968 said:


> Reminds me of an old joke:
> 
> Why is the bride smiling when she walks down the aisle?
> 
> Because she knows she's given her last BJ.


Is that really very common?

I've been married twice, and I never lacked for frequent blowjobs in either of those relationships.


----------



## Personal

badsanta said:


> According to Schnarch, men that seek other-partner validation for their sense of self are the one's that struggle with a partner that do not want his semen in her mouth.


Lucky for me then, that I don't have sex to get other-partner validation for my sense of self. Which must be why I don't struggle at all, with a partner who doesn't want semen in their mouth.



> There are multiple chapters in this new book I am reading on oral sex. For example many women struggle with transitioning from PIV to giving oral on a partner simply because she does not want to taste her own vagina. *Schnarch suggests that women need to get over this, but in parallel he also suggests that men should also have no problems with a women that wants to put some of his own semen in his mouth. *


If that's the case then Shnarch is a bell end.

No one needs to get over anything sexually. that they don't want to do.


----------



## Personal

badsanta said:


> Regarding someone not wanting to taste themself... I am guessing if oral is done before PIV and everyone participates and reciprocates, then no more kissing each another passionately during intercourse?


It's so much easier, having sexual partners who have no problem with this.

Fortunately my wife and I are fine with her taking my penis in her mouth wherever it has been inside her. We're also both fine kissing each other throughout sex with no order required for oral or any other activity. Likewise I will go down on her orally after I have cum inside of her etc.

My wife and I also both agree that sex is icky and gross. Yet it feels so good to us, that all that's icky it doesn't bother us in the moment.


----------



## Marduk

Personal said:


> It's so much easier, having sexual partners who have no problem with this.
> 
> Fortunately my wife and I are fine with her taking my penis in her mouth wherever it has been inside her. We're also both fine kissing each other throughout sex with no order required for oral or any other activity. Likewise I will go down on her orally after I have cum inside of her etc.
> 
> My wife and I also both agree that sex is icky and gross. Yet it feels so good to us, that all that's icky it doesn't bother us in the moment.


All of biological existence is icky and gross if you think about it. We’re meat that flaps its meat to talk to other meat. We’re meat that gets squeezed out of other meet in a ball of goo to be born. We’re meat that rots into dirt when we die.

Might as well have some fun being meat along the way and just get over ourselves. At least that’s the way I think about it.


----------



## Affaircare

southbound said:


> ... are bj’s really something that is considered a normal act for women? This may sound strange coming from a guy, but I can honestly see where that wouldn’t be every woman’s cup of tea, just like bondage isn’t for everybody. Are bj’s considered a common practice among most couples who have a great relationship, and is it something most women don’t mind?


I have two answers to these questions. 

Answer #1: I have a VERY close friend who I went to HS and college with, who absolutely, positively does not like and will not do BJ's. Period. Not for birthday sex, not for begging, nothing. Somehow or another it just completely grosses her out and over the 40 years I've known her she has tried a couple times and literally it makes her throw up. So for her, it is not only not her cup of tea, she doesn't do it, doesn't swallow, doesn't do it after PIV...nothing. In all fairness, for her to have a loving partner who demanded that she do an act that makes her physically ill would be just horrifying. So a partner who would be a great fit for her would be one who valued her for who she is and is willing to accept that she will make love, but not give BJ's. I will also say, though, that if one were to look at "what she's willing to do sexually" compared to me (and I'm not vanilla, but I'm not a freak either), I believe one might consider her fairly closed. She is pretty vanilla. 

Answer #2: I am not like my friend at all. I love BJ's and even enjoy swallowing and after PIV and kissing after someone ate at the Y and everything. I am pretty open-minded and came to find out that at first it was "Oh, that tastes different" and it took some getting used to, but after a couple times, I found all those tastes and textures to be downright sexy! So for me, a loving partner who didn't like some oral activity in some way would be disappointing and possibly not a good fit for me. A good partner for me would be someone who valued me for who I am and is willing to both give and receive some oral. I will also say that I do have a tattoo or two, but I do not consider myself freaky. I like sex...in the sense that I actually enjoy all aspects of it...but I also don't like some fetish-type activities that others might. I like making love, intimately, with one other person in private. Soooo... not vanilla but maybe just a decent "smooth chocolate" LOL!

ETA: I think it is important to note that whilst I do enjoy oral both giving and receiving, there is one line I won't cross, and that is grabbing my head or hair and sort of forcing. That's too triggery for me, so the buck stops there.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Ha, ha...not sure why but out of all the threads its this one that bought me back from my self imposed exile. I don't think most guys have a hard line on the whole swallowing thing. Its more of a nice to have I guess. I had experienced oral sex to completion, yet I married someone that didn't want semen in her mouth. It wasn't that big of a deal because she would still do oral, and she was amazing at hand jobs. With that said I can admit that it is something I missed, so when the marriage ended I did really have an appreciation for it when in a relationship with someone that enjoyed doing that for me. While not a deal breaker...now that I'm used to it as a regular thing that is no big deal...I really don't know how I'd feel about it...I think it would vary on how satisfying the sexual intimacy was in other areas.

On another note, this may sound odd and contradictory, but it doesn't really turn me on to see a women playing with it in her mouth, or loving it all over her face. I did have one lover that this was one of her particular kinks, but it kind of always grossed me out when she would do things like that. But it was obvious it was a turn on for her. I would say she is rare though. I don't think most women that swallow do it because they love it. I think its more out of love for their partner (not saying those that don't aren't in love!).


----------



## CharlieParker

ReformedHubby said:


> Ha, ha...not sure why but out of all the threads its this one that bought me back from my self imposed exile.


Hi! * waves madly *

More on topic, now I’m laughing, remembering your opinions on her slipping a finger up your butt during a BJ. Oh oh, I think I need to be exiled.


----------



## Personal

CharlieParker said:


> slipping a finger up your butt during a BJ.


I often get a finger or two, and she also sticks her tongue up there as well.

Plus when I've removed the hair, she also puts my testicles in her mouth.

None of the above mentioned things are deal breakers (like swallowing it and taking facials etc) for me, although they are nice to have and I do enjoy them.

One thing I don't like though is stand alone hand jobs, even expertly done I find them to be so lame.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

uhtred said:


> When you find someone else, you will discover that there are many men who *really* enjoy pleasing their partners.


HSM, This bears repeating.... over and over and over... until you understand that this is part of what love looks like and have the strength to accept nothing less.


----------



## samyeagar

Numb26 said:


> I agree. If a woman is so opposed to oral I find it hard to believe she would do "100's of other acts".


Sort of like a person who won't touch alcohol or pot, yet is all about meth, heroin and xanax. And not an unreasonable conclusion to draw if someone says they don't drink, to figure they probably don't do hard drugs either. Possible I suppose, but very unlikely.


----------



## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> Why are you amazed? Picking a partner based on how compatible they are with you (whether it be sexual or nonsexual), is probably the most important factor in a healthy relationship. Everyone is different and looks for different things in a relationship that are important. In my case, I learned a very important lesson, never settle for less then what you want/need. It leads to resentment and unhappiness.


Being compatible sexually is but one of many important things in a good marriage. Also of course there is compromise. We really don't have to always get what WE want all the time in life. Its also about giving and respecting the person we love. 
If having to have a BJ is so vital, then what happens if your wife gets ill, or is badly disabled say? Will people leave their wives because they are no longer getting their own selfish needs met? Or is marriage far more important than that?

I am amazed at what I read here. The selfishness and self centeredness that is so apparent. :frown2:
How about we go into marriage with what we can do for our partner and not for what WE can get out of it.


----------



## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> I agree. If a woman is so opposed to oral I find it hard to believe she would do "100's of other acts".


Then you don't know many women.


----------



## ReformedHubby

CharlieParker said:


> ReformedHubby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, ha...not sure why but out of all the threads its this one that bought me back from my self imposed exile.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi! * waves madly *
> 
> More on topic, now I’m laughing, remembering your opinions on her slipping a finger up your butt during a BJ. Oh oh, I think I need to be exiled.
Click to expand...

You know...sometimes we forget how much we share on here LoL...yeah...that was surprise. I guess it was a good thing for me that it wasnt a deal breaker for her that i didnt want her fingers in certain places.


----------



## Diana7

BioFury said:


> If a man screams at you when he gets angry while dating, it may not mean he'll become physically abusive later on. But it's a glimpse of his disposition.
> 
> Similarly, a woman would be revealing that she is uncomfortable with a routine sexual act. Whatever the reason, the thought process, just as with man-who-screams, is "If he/she is doing this now when she's trying to impress me, what's she going to be doing in 5 years after we're married and have 2 kids? How will this pattern/behavior evolve and progress?"
> 
> Not favorably. At least, that's what a lot of people's experience has taught us.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. If I may ask, is your distaste for the substance based on it's taste/consistency then?


To be honest, some men seem so obsessed by just this one thing when there are so many other good things that sex can bring. To me that shows a pretty narrow way of thinking.


----------



## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> Numb26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. If a woman is so opposed to oral I find it hard to believe she would do "100's of other acts".
> 
> 
> 
> Then you don't know many women.
Click to expand...

I've known plenty of women, alot like you also. Who think that men need to sacrifice just to keep them happy. Was married to one. And a still stand by my original statement, if you have such an issue with something a common as oral there is no way you could possibly been into "100's of other things". For you to call people selfish and self centered because they want something that YOU are so opposed too is just ridiculous.


----------



## arbitrator

*With regard to oral sex, I feel that the best time to make a decision about a future mate is how they choose to behave in this area during the dating relationship! But respect and love for their partner should be the primary reasons for participation in this type of sexual activity with them!

After marriage, it should go without saying that if a verifiable medical or physical malady occurs and prohibits the performance of oral, either giving or receiving, then one just has to accept it, try to comfort them, and summarily roll with the punches!*


----------



## BioFury

Diana7 said:


> To be honest, some men seem so obsessed by just this one thing when there are so many other good things that sex can bring. To me that shows a pretty narrow way of thinking.


Yes, there are lots of enjoyable sexual experiences, just as there are lots of tasty food groups.

But if a woman were to tell me "you can't eat gluten if you're with me, I'm deathly allergic", then I likely wouldn't date her. Because while there are plenty of other things to eat, I love bread, bread products, and want to be able to enjoy those things with the woman I'm dating. Rather than feel like our dietary lives are being regulated by the gluten police.


----------



## Numb26

BioFury said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, some men seem so obsessed by just this one thing when there are so many other good things that sex can bring. To me that shows a pretty narrow way of thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there are lots of enjoyable sexual experiences, just as there are lots of tasty foods groups.
> 
> But if a woman were to tell me "you can't eat gluten if you're with me, I'm deathly allergic", then I likely wouldn't date her. Because while there are plenty of other things to eat, I love bread, and bread products, and want to share that enjoyment with the woman I'm dating.
Click to expand...

She seems to think it's a character flaw in a man if he enjoys oral and wants it in his relationship. Men are learning that they don't have sacrifice and "just take" whatever their partner decide to give them. I think it's funny that if the tables were turned they would be the first ones telling their friends to leave a relationship if they weren't getting what they wanted from their bfs/husbands.


----------



## Girl_power

BioFury said:


> Yes, there are lots of enjoyable sexual experiences, just as there are lots of tasty foods groups.
> 
> But if a woman were to tell me "you can't eat gluten if you're with me, I'm deathly allergic", then I likely wouldn't date her. Because while there are plenty of other things to eat, I love bread, bread products, and want to be able to enjoy those things with the woman I'm dating. Rather than feel like our dietary lives are being regulated by the gluten police.




The problem is when they become gluten free after the marriage.


----------



## Girl_power

I think that people do assume oral is on the table. I don’t know why, people don’t assume anal is on the table. But all you have to do is make your boundaries clear. I like it, but I don’t love it. I don’t like it at all. I like it under certain conditions etc.


----------



## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> I've known plenty of women, alot like you also. Who think that men need to sacrifice just to keep them happy. Was married to one. And a still stand by my original statement, if you have such an issue with something a common as oral there is no way you could possibly been into "100's of other things". For you to call people selfish and self centered because they want something that YOU are so opposed too is just ridiculous.




Both partners need to sometimes make sacrifices to make the other happy. I went into marriage knowing that. That's what marriage is all about. People's sex lives are very varied, you have no idea of what a couple may or may not like, and it just may or may not include oral sex. There are so many things that a couple can do, why does it always have to be the few things that you and others here think are vital?

My comments about men who would reject someone just because of this one thing has nothing to do with me being against oral sex(because I am not as long as both agree). Its the fact that people would leave their partner if they didn't do this one thing. I find that weird. My love for my husband is far more important than whether he does one thing for me that I demand/expect. Its all about compromise.


----------



## notmyjamie

Marduk said:


> But if she still liked it but not with me... I’d probably head for the hills.


If I had a guy that said he really likes something but not with me, I'd ask what I can do to make it so that he does like with with me. Maybe I'm just not doing it the way he likes. Now if the reason is a physical one that I can't help I'd ask if he can live without that particular thing. If he said yes, I'd take him at his word. 




BioFury said:


> Yes, there are lots of enjoyable sexual experiences, just as there are lots of tasty foods groups.
> 
> But if a woman were to tell me "you can't eat gluten if you're with me, I'm deathly allergic", then I likely wouldn't date her. Because while there are plenty of other things to eat, I love bread, bread products, and want to be able to enjoy those things with the woman I'm dating. Rather than feel like our dietary lives are being regulated by the gluten police.


My STBX can't eat dairy at all. When I left him I was excited about being able to cook whatever I like and not having to always research dairy free stuff. I've spent years rejecting really good looking foods/recipes because of the dairy content. Guess what? My new guy can't have dairy either. Doh!!!!


----------



## CharlieParker

notmyjamie said:


> Guess what? My new guy can't have dairy either. Doh!!!!


Ouch, sorry. But let me guess, if he’s still your guy he must be really good at or... er, um, ordering separate pizzas. Yes I’m sticking with that.


----------



## notmyjamie

CharlieParker said:


> Ouch, sorry. But let me guess, if he’s still your guy he must be really good at or... er, um, ordering separate pizzas. Yes I’m sticking with that.




He is very generous when ordering pizzas. Very generous. >


----------



## uhtred

I see it differently. I see sex as an important part of relationships - it is one of the main reasons most people prefer a relationship with some particular gender (for those who like both - that's fine). A big part of sex is trying to please your partner while they do the same for you. There are of course always tradeoffs. No one should have to do thinks that they find unpleasant - so that leads to issues of sexual compatibility. I see no reason to push a relationship that is not compatible, why not let each find someone who is better matched. (so find out early in the relationship). 

I think some people value oral because it is a sign of being willing to go to effort to sexually please your partner. There are some sexually selfish people out there and being in a relationship with them is not fun. Certainly there are some people who do not like performing oral but who are still happy to find other ways to please their partners, but it is not uncommon that a lack of willingness to do oral is associated with general sexual selfishness. 







Diana7 said:


> Being compatible sexually is but one of many important things in a good marriage. Also of course there is compromise. We really don't have to always get what WE want all the time in life. Its also about giving and respecting the person we love.
> If having to have a BJ is so vital, then what happens if your wife gets ill, or is badly disabled say? Will people leave their wives because they are no longer getting their own selfish needs met? Or is marriage far more important than that?
> 
> I am amazed at what I read here. The selfishness and self centeredness that is so apparent. :frown2:
> How about we go into marriage with what we can do for our partner and not for what WE can get out of it.


----------



## Deejo

Diana7 said:


> Being compatible sexually is but one of many important things in a good marriage. Also of course there is compromise. We really don't have to always get what WE want all the time in life. Its also about giving and respecting the person we love.
> If having to have a BJ is so vital, then what happens if your wife gets ill, or is badly disabled say? Will people leave their wives because they are no longer getting their own selfish needs met? Or is marriage far more important than that?
> 
> I am amazed at what I read here. The selfishness and self centeredness that is so apparent. :frown2:
> How about we go into marriage with what we can do for our partner and not for what WE can get out of it.


You're confusing self awareness with selfishness.

Am I mistaken or aren't you remarried following divorce? I generally presume anyone that decides to take the plunge after a failed marriage is painfully familiar with the outcomes of NOT having ones needs met.

You're a Christian. Presumably you decided that another strong person of faith was a requirement, no? Would you call that being selfish?

Or more to the point, how would you feel if your husband woke up tomorrow and indicated he's no longer interested in being a person of faith?

Sexual self awareness, and sexual reciprocity are ABSOLUTELY a bellweather for a relationship.


----------



## heartsbeating

southbound said:


> I recently saw a few minutes of a female comedian, Nikki Glaser, and she was doing a stand-up routine about when females first discover that bj’s are something they will be doing in life. She said she first thought maybe it was something that not every woman does, but then you realize it’s something you’ll be doing as a woman. She even went into the choice of swallow or spit.
> 
> This was all a comedy routine, but it did make me curious, are bj’s really something that is considered a normal act for women? This may sound strange coming from a guy, but I can honestly see where that wouldn’t be every woman’s cup of tea, just like bondage isn’t for everybody. Are bj’s considered a common practice among most couples who have a great relationship, and is it something most women don’t mind?


I'll have to check on the comedy routine. Thinking back to my youth, I was listening to the song lyrics, _'I'll give you head, till you're burning up, head, till you get enough, head, till your love is red, head, love you till you're dead... you married me instead... now morning, noon, and night, I give you head...'_ 

Around aged 15, two of my friends gave head to a guy we each had a crush on. Innocently, it surprised me this was how they were trying to gain his time and affection, and yet he told me I was the only one out of our group he still respected. Somewhere in this micro-story, a couple of world views start to form. Among those views, was a somewhat normalized view among my peers, while observing how they were shunned afterwards. Simultaneously, even before I'd experienced giving or receiving, I considered oral would be freeing and for sharing. I grew up in an uptight, British house-hold, so I joke that I learned it's rude to spit. As an adult, it's only been discussed a couple of times among married friends, and those engaging in (and enjoying) oral were in the minority. I'll admit that naively that surprised me. To me, receiving oral is aligned with ecstasy, and therefore it's sexy and exciting to give that ecstasy to my man. 

But hey, each to their own!


----------



## ReformedHubby

Diana7 said:


> Being compatible sexually is but one of many important things in a good marriage. Also of course there is compromise. We really don't have to always get what WE want all the time in life. Its also about giving and respecting the person we love.
> If having to have a BJ is so vital, then what happens if your wife gets ill, or is badly disabled say? Will people leave their wives because they are no longer getting their own selfish needs met? Or is marriage far more important than that?
> 
> I am amazed at what I read here. The selfishness and self centeredness that is so apparent. :frown2:
> How about we go into marriage with what we can do for our partner and not for what WE can get out of it.


Thats a huge leap. I don't think anyone on here would prioritize a blowjob over their partner's health and well being. Probably stating the obvious but I think the original post is meant to gage how important that specific sex act is in your priorities when selecting a partner. Luckily there are enough people in the world who enjoy it so that people don't have to settle.


----------



## Lila

heartsbeating said:


> To me, receiving oral is aligned with ecstasy, and therefore it's sexy and exciting to give that ecstasy to my man.


I hadn't thought about it like this but I think you've hit on an important point. I wonder how many people (men or women) would enjoy giving oral sex if their partner was just "meh" about it.


----------



## 2&out

No oral is a 98+% guarantee of boring in bed. They can say that they make up for it in other ways trying to convince themselves of the lie that they do, but it is only them that believes that. 

Swallow and other erotic basically moves them to the highly desired category for many men. We don't care if you like that fact or not - it's still a fact.


----------



## Numb26

2&out said:


> No oral is a 98+% guarantee of boring in bed. They can say that they make up for it in other ways trying to convince themselves of the lie that they do, but it is only them that believes that.
> 
> Swallow and other erotic basically moves them to the highly desired category for many men. We don't care if you like that fact or not - it's still a fact.


This!


----------



## Lila

southbound said:


> I recently saw a few minutes of a female comedian, Nikki Glaser, and she was doing a stand-up routine about when females first discover that bj’s are something they will be doing in life. She said she first thought maybe it was something that not every woman does, but then you realize it’s something you’ll be doing as a woman. She even went into the choice of swallow or spit.
> 
> This was all a comedy routine, but it did make me curious, are bj’s really something that is considered a normal act for women? This may sound strange coming from a guy, but I can honestly see where that wouldn’t be every woman’s cup of tea, just like bondage isn’t for everybody. Are bj’s considered a common practice among most couples who have a great relationship, and is it something most women don’t mind?


I posted on your thread but never answered your questions @southbound. I think oral sex, specifically BJ's, is assumed in sexual relationships.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> I hadn't thought about it like this but I think you've hit on an important point. I wonder how many people (men or women) would enjoy giving oral sex if their partner was just "meh" about it.


Being ready, let alone enthusiastic, about receiving is a rare occurrence for my wife. That has definitely dampened my once very profound enthusiasm for giving, and in turn (along with her aversion to giving) kind of squelches my desire to be on the receiving end as well.


----------



## RebuildingMe

“100’s of other things” is usually code for vanilla starfish sex every other Tuesday


----------



## uhtred

I like giving oral only because of my partner's reaction. It would be completely uninteresting if they didn't enjoy it. I do enjoy it - because at least for me driving my partner wild is one of the most fun things about sex





Lila said:


> I hadn't thought about it like this but I think you've hit on an important point. I wonder how many people (men or women) would enjoy giving oral sex if their partner was just "meh" about it.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Standard, both ways. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## leftfield

Lila said:


> I wonder how many people (men or women) would enjoy giving oral sex if their partner was just "meh" about it.


I still enjoy doing it for her. It just does not happen very often.


----------



## Marduk

notmyjamie said:


> If I had a guy that said he really likes something but not with me, I'd ask what I can do to make it so that he does like with with me. Maybe I'm just not doing it the way he likes. Now if the reason is a physical one that I can't help I'd ask if he can live without that particular thing. If he said yes, I'd take him at his word.


Let me give you an example from my own dating life.

I was once dating a girl that I was pretty meh about physically but I thought she was awesome. Very much an artist, very much a free thinker, very outspoken and intelligent. She challenged me a lot, and I liked that.

But she once remarked that I never ask her to wear anything sexy, and if I just wasn’t into that sort of thing. I very much was, but that wasn’t what we were really about and I had no real desire for that sort of thing with her.

The relationship fizzled for many reasons, but one of them was a growing realization on both sides that I just wasn’t that physically attracted to her.

There wasn’t anything she or I could have done to make me want something with her that I wanted with others, because of attraction. And that sucks but that’s what it was.


----------



## southbound

ReformedHubby said:


> On another note, this may sound odd and contradictory, but it doesn't really turn me on to see a women playing with it in her mouth, or loving it all over her face. I did have one lover that this was one of her particular kinks, but it kind of always grossed me out when she would do things like that. But it was obvious it was a turn on for her. I would say she is rare though. I don't think most women that swallow do it because they love it. I think its more out of love for their partner (not saying those that don't aren't in love!).


I’m with you on this, but I assumed
It seemed weird coming from a guy. Bjs are great, and I’ll take it if that’s her thing, but it’s just never been a big must for me, so if it’s not a woman’s thing, I’m good. You mentioned hand jobs; my x could roll my eyes back and turn me into a drooling demon with her hand jobs, but I know some guys put hand jobs as scraping the bottom of the barrel, so, I guess “to each his own.”


----------



## MarriedTex

Diana7 said:


> Both partners need to sometimes make sacrifices to make the other happy. I went into marriage knowing that. That's what marriage is all about. People's sex lives are very varied, you have no idea of what a couple may or may not like, and it just may or may not include oral sex. There are so many things that a couple can do, why does it always have to be the few things that you and others here think are vital?
> 
> My comments about men who would reject someone just because of this one thing has nothing to do with me being against oral sex(because I am not as long as both agree). Its the fact that people would leave their partner if they didn't do this one thing. I find that weird. My love for my husband is far more important than whether he does one thing for me that I demand/expect. Its all about compromise.


Compromise sounds very sensible and those that argue against compromise in a text-based forum automatically look like ogres.

I've been married almost 30 years. I compromised on the lack of oral from almost the outset of the relationship, focusing on the other positive attributes of my wife - including a healthy frequency of PIV. I clearly communicated that I very much enjoy BJs and would like to have them on a regular basis but that they were not a dealbreaker in my book. For the first 10 years of marriage, I would ask every month or two and typically get rejected on the BJ front. I can't say it was bait-and-switch, because she was doing nothing different from when we dated. Nevertheless, it was demoralizing to be rejected in this way. I'm a damn good husband and put a lot of effort into the relationship, and I came to view her reluctance to engage in this manner as evidence in that she really wasn't interested in trying too hard to make me happy.

After about a decade, I finally decided that I wasn't going to put myself in a position to be rejected anymore on this particular issue. Told her I still liked them, still wanted them but that they would have to be given on her terms when she felt the desire to do so. (I still to this day try to perform oral on her, but she pushes me away after a minute or two - I suspect mostly in fear that I might demand reciprocation on the oral side.) From there on she would make half-hearted attempts every year or two. Usually on hotel getaways or other special occasions. But mostly as foreplay, never to completion. 

It's been a good five or six years since she's even tried. I pretty much figure that ship has sailed. I accept it, I guess. But I'm still resentful. I provide a pretty good lifestyle. Empty nest, she doesn't work, house paid off, somewhat regular European travel. I'm still busting my butt at work to provide this lifestyle and will probably be doing so for another decade.. She knows I like BJs and you would think she would be hunting for things that would make her husband happy. (I fully recognize the No More Mr. Nice Guy covert contract that I've invoked. I continually work on my NMMNG failings but still have a ways to go, obviously.) 

It either never crosses her mind anymore, or I'm just not worth the effort. And I've vowed to myself that I would never again subject myself to being rejected in asking/begging for something that should IMHO be given freely. It's not a dealbreaker on my side. It's not bait and switch on her side. It's just the result of a bad compromise I made long ago. So, no, "compromise" is not always the right answer.


----------



## minimalME

I swallow in order to keep my mouth where it is.

For me, it's not about the semen or being loving. It's about following through.

The orgasm itself and the period right after are both part of the experience, and it's much more intense and fluid (no pun intended) when each phase is controlled with my mouth than say a hand or a toy.

It's a completely different way of having a blowjob. 

Bringing someone to the edge and finishing any other way is not the same at all.



ReformedHubby said:


> I don't think most women that swallow do it because they love it. I think its more out of love for their partner (not saying those that don't aren't in love!).


----------



## notmyjamie

Marduk said:


> Let me give you an example from my own dating life.
> 
> I was once dating a girl that I was pretty meh about physically but I thought she was awesome. Very much an artist, very much a free thinker, very outspoken and intelligent. She challenged me a lot, and I liked that.
> 
> But she once remarked that I never ask her to wear anything sexy, and if I just wasn’t into that sort of thing. I very much was, but that wasn’t what we were really about and I had no real desire for that sort of thing with her.
> 
> The relationship fizzled for many reasons, but one of them was a growing realization on both sides that I just wasn’t that physically attracted to her.
> 
> There wasn’t anything she or I could have done to make me want something with her that I wanted with others, because of attraction. And that sucks but that’s what it was.


I took your original post to mean more of a committed relationship. You're describing something a bit different here. I'd bail on this too.


----------



## notmyjamie

Lila said:


> I hadn't thought about it like this but I think you've hit on an important point. I wonder how many people (men or women) would enjoy giving oral sex if their partner was just "meh" about it.


That would definitely affect my enjoyment of the act. I like to do things for my partner because he enjoys them. If I finished and he said he could take it or leave it, I'd probably leave it next time. My goal is to wow him, not underwhelm him.

Having said that, in my limited experience of men, I've yet to meet one that didn't thoroughly appreciate a good bj. :laugh:


----------



## Marduk

notmyjamie said:


> I took your original post to mean more of a committed relationship. You're describing something a bit different here. I'd bail on this too.


I highly recommend figuring most of this stuff out before you get too committed.


----------



## notmyjamie

Marduk said:


> I highly recommend figuring most of this stuff out before you get too committed.


Not going to argue with that. It's quite sound advice. Unfortunately, a lot of couples don't figure this stuff out ahead of time. They assume things will change for the better and they usually don't.


----------



## BioFury

Lila said:


> I hadn't thought about it like this but I think you've hit on an important point. I wonder how many people (men or women) would enjoy giving oral sex if their partner was just "meh" about it.


If a girl I was dating wasn't excited about the prospect of receiving oral, that would be the end of the line. That's one of the primary things I'm looking forward to.

There's no guarantee she'll love it, but if she's excited (in more ways than one) about the idea of it, then I dare say that's a favorable indication.



minimalME said:


> I swallow in order to keep my mouth where it is.
> 
> For me, it's not about the semen or being loving. It's about following through.
> 
> The orgasm itself and the period right after are both part of the experience, and it's much more intense and fluid (no pun intended) when each phase is controlled with my mouth than say a hand or a toy.
> 
> It's a completely different way of having a blowjob.
> 
> Bringing someone to the edge and finishing any other way is not the same at all.


Someone give this woman a medal >


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MarriedTex said:


> Compromise sounds very sensible and those that argue against compromise in a text-based forum automatically look like ogres.
> 
> I've been married almost 30 years. I compromised on the lack of oral from almost the outset of the relationship, focusing on the other positive attributes of my wife - including a healthy frequency of PIV. I clearly communicated that I very much enjoy BJs and would like to have them on a regular basis but that they were not a dealbreaker in my book. For the first 10 years of marriage, I would ask every month or two and typically get rejected on the BJ front. I can't say it was bait-and-switch, because she was doing nothing different from when we dated. Nevertheless, it was demoralizing to be rejected in this way. I'm a damn good husband and put a lot of effort into the relationship, and I came to view her reluctance to engage in this manner as evidence in that she really wasn't interested in trying too hard to make me happy.
> 
> After about a decade, I finally decided that I wasn't going to put myself in a position to be rejected anymore on this particular issue. Told her I still liked them, still wanted them but that they would have to be given on her terms when she felt the desire to do so. (I still to this day try to perform oral on her, but she pushes me away after a minute or two - I suspect mostly in fear that I might demand reciprocation on the oral side.) From there on she would make half-hearted attempts every year or two. Usually on hotel getaways or other special occasions. But mostly as foreplay, never to completion.
> 
> It's been a good five or six years since she's even tried. I pretty much figure that ship has sailed. I accept it, I guess. But I'm still resentful. I provide a pretty good lifestyle. Empty nest, she doesn't work, house paid off, somewhat regular European travel. I'm still busting my butt at work to provide this lifestyle and will probably be doing so for another decade.. She knows I like BJs and you would think she would be hunting for things that would make her husband happy. (I fully recognize the No More Mr. Nice Guy covert contract that I've invoked. I continually work on my NMMNG failings but still have a ways to go, obviously.)
> 
> It either never crosses her mind anymore, or I'm just not worth the effort. And I've vowed to myself that I would never again subject myself to being rejected in asking/begging for something that should IMHO be given freely. It's not a dealbreaker on my side. It's not bait and switch on her side. It's just the result of a bad compromise I made long ago. So, no, "compromise" is not always the right answer.


Very impressive post and undoubtedly speaks for more than just yourself.


----------



## Lila

BioFury said:


> If a girl I was dating wasn't excited about the prospect of receiving oral, that would be the end of the line. That's one of the primary things I'm looking forward to.
> 
> There's no guarantee she'll love it, but if she's excited (in more ways than one) about the idea of it, then I dare say that's a favorable indication.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone give this woman a medal >


 @BioFury, please don't take this the wrong way but could it be that you are setting yourself up for failure by having all of these expectations about sex when you also have a lot of other significant deal breakers relating to your religion?


----------



## Numb26

RebuildingMe said:


> “100’s of other things” is usually code for vanilla starfish sex every other Tuesday


I have a couple of friends that got trapped into this kind of relationship. Its sad


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Lila said:


> @BioFury, please don't take this the wrong way but could it be that you are setting yourself up for failure by having all of these expectations about sex when you also have a lot of other significant deal breakers relating to your religion?


The problem is that, with the religious restrictions, there is no opportunity to explore the deal breakers. 

You can _talk about _sex and and all the things _you think_ it should entail all you want before marriage, but if both parties have no practical experience going in, they have no idea what they _really _want. 

Expectations based on zero actual personal experience are no foundation for moving forward with a lifetime commitment.


----------



## BioFury

Lila said:


> @BioFury, please don't take this the wrong way but could it be that you are setting yourself up for failure by having all of these expectations about sex when you also have a lot of other significant deal breakers relating to your religion?


The implication being, those of a conservative religious background are less likely to be sexually relaxed and adventurous?

Perhaps. All of the girls I've been in a relationship with have had a very naughty side to them, and weren't afraid to express their sexuality once we got to know each other. And that's a huge reason why I liked them. None of those relationships worked out, but for unrelated reasons.

I wasn't spontaneous and "live-for-the-moment" enough for one, and wasn't "manly" enough for the other (cause I don't drive a truck, and don't know how to butcher animals. No joke.).

So yes, pickings are slim. But hopefully there's a super naughty one out there waiting for me.


----------



## Lila

BioFury said:


> The implication being, *those of a conservative religious background are less likely to be sexually relaxed and adventurous*?
> 
> Perhaps. All of the girls I've been in a relationship with have had a very naughty side to them, and weren't afraid to express their sexuality once we got to know each other. And that's a huge reason why I liked them. None of those relationships worked out, but for unrelated reasons.
> 
> I wasn't spontaneous and "live-for-the-moment" enough for one, and wasn't manly enough for the other (cause I don't drive a truck, and don't know how to butcher animals. No joke.).
> 
> So yes, pickings are slim. But hopefully there's a super naughty one out there waiting for me.


That's not what I was implying at all. What I am saying is that based on your post history here on TAM, my understanding is that you have a very limited sexual experience history. How can you say this or that is a deal breaker when you haven't even gotten a taste of what you may or may not be calling a deal breaker? And this isn't to say that deal breakers are bad but just know what you are calling a deal breaker before you do make those kinds of decisions. You may find out in the long run that they weren't that big of a deal after all. 

I'd also like to add that you are fishing in a very, very small pond. The women in that pond have their own set of expectations. You may be shooting yourself in the foot by not relaxing those deal breakers a bit. You might lose the battle but you can win the war.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> The problem is that, with the religious restrictions, there is no opportunity to explore the deal breakers.
> 
> You can _talk about _sex and and all the things _you think_ it should entail all you want before marriage, but if both parties have no practical experience going in, they have no idea what they _really _want.
> 
> Expectations based on zero actual personal experience are no foundation for moving forward with a lifetime commitment.


]

Good communication about future sex can be very helpful. You really don't need to have sex before marriage to know what you would and wouldn't want.


----------



## Diana7

RebuildingMe said:


> “100’s of other things” is usually code for vanilla starfish sex every other Tuesday


As usual those who assume this are totally wrong. Interesting how you and others assume you know all about others sex lives when you know nothing.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Diana7 said:


> ]
> 
> 
> 
> Good communication about future sex can be very helpful. You really don't need to have sex before marriage to know what you would and wouldn't want.




Disagree.. I think not having sex before marriage, no matter how much you may talk about it, is setting majority up for failure. You can have an outstanding relationship and the sex still be crappy. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

2&out said:


> No oral is a 98+% guarantee of boring in bed. They can say that they make up for it in other ways trying to convince themselves of the lie that they do, but it is only them that believes that.
> 
> Swallow and other erotic basically moves them to the highly desired category for many men. We don't care if you like that fact or not - it's still a fact.


Again you are making assumptions about people who you know nothing about.


----------



## Marduk

notmyjamie said:


> Not going to argue with that. It's quite sound advice. Unfortunately, a lot of couples don't figure this stuff out ahead of time. They assume things will change for the better and they usually don't.


Or, once committed, they change the terms of the relationship. That happens quite often as well.

“After being married 10 years and having 2 kids, I’ve realized I’m actually asexual. You wouldn’t break our family up over something as trivial as sex, would you?”


----------



## Diana7

3Xnocharm said:


> Disagree.. I think not having sex before marriage, no matter how much you may talk about it, is setting majority up for failure. You can have an outstanding relationship and the sex still be crappy.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The best and happiest marriages I know are between those who didn't have sex before marriage. Most of those who come here with serious marriage issues had sex before marriage, so what does that say? It guarantees nothing.


----------



## Marduk

Diana7 said:


> The best and happiest marriages I know are between those who didn't have sex before marriage. Most of those who come here with serious marriage issues had sex before marriage, so what does that say? It guarantees nothing.


So did you, though. You were previously married. Has that harmed your current marriage?


----------



## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> She seems to think it's a character flaw in a man if he enjoys oral and wants it in his relationship. Men are learning that they don't have sacrifice and "just take" whatever their partner decide to give them. I think it's funny that if the tables were turned they would be the first ones telling their friends to leave a relationship if they weren't getting what they wanted from their bfs/husbands.


You have clearly not understood at all, I don't see it as a character flaw to want one specific sexual act like oral, but to base your choice on partner on whether she does that or not is crazy.
Honestly when I married I made a decision to ensure that he had a happy marriage and good sex life. I honestly am not bothered if he does or doesnt want to do this or that, he and my marriage are far more important than one thing.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> ]
> 
> Good communication about future sex can be very helpful. You really don't need to have sex before marriage to know what you would and wouldn't want.


Good communication can indeed be very helpful, indeed essential. But you can only communicate effectively to what you actually know. And you don't really know anything until you have some experience. When you have two virgins marrying, it's the blind leading the blind, sexually speaking and both are likely to fall in the sexual ditch as a result. 
People who choose to wait just need to be aware of this limitation.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> You have clearly not understood at all, I don't see it as a character flaw to want one specific sexual act like oral, but to base your choice on partner on whether she does that or not is crazy.
> *Honestly when I married I made a decision to ensure that he had a happy marriage and good sex life. *I honestly am not bothered if he does or doesnt want to do this or that, he and my marriage are far more important than one thing.


That is something we should all aspire to. Now--what if "a good sex life" includes oral?


----------



## uhtred

I wonder if people categorize sex acts differently and that is part of the difference of opinion. 

One cold divide sex into: PIV , hand, anal and oral. In that case we are talking about roughly 1/4 of sexual activities

Or one could divide into: romantic, role playing, bondage etc etc. in which case oral is seen as just one act that when removed doesn't really make a big difference.

I don't have an opinion - but am starting to think that there may be a sort of disconnect. When people talk about doing "lots of other things" but not oral, what sorts of "other things" are they considering?


----------



## Lila

@southbound since you are the thread originator, did you get the answers you are looking for? I don't want to close a thread where there's a good discussion however I see a trend where your thread is devolving into insults and jokes.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> The best and happiest marriages I know are between those who didn't have sex before marriage. Most of those who come here with serious marriage issues had sex before marriage, so what does that say? It guarantees nothing.


My wife is the only one I've had sex with. I was determined to save myself for her when I met her. 

We are very committed to each other and by any possible measure, people would all say we have put our marriage first and not let anything intrude into that. 

Every other aspect of our marriage has, and has always had, a solid gold A+ rating.

The sex... not so much. And that does diminish the marriage overall. 

Setting aside emotions and religious baggage, the logic of the situation is undeniable, that if I had even a hint of knowledge of what I wanted out of a sexual relationship, and further some ability to determine if she was a good fit for that, then I could have made a better decision. 

And no, I'm not particularly wild by most anybody's measure... I have no interest in some of the "common" acts discussed on this site, let alone the really far out ones.


----------



## uhtred

As are some of the saddest. 

Often sexual mismatches are completely hidden from anyone but the people themselves. There is not a single person in real life who realizes the problems my wife and I have - to everyone we have the most perfect marriage imaginable. 





Diana7 said:


> The best and happiest marriages I know are between those who didn't have sex before marriage. Most of those who come here with serious marriage issues had sex before marriage, so what does that say? It guarantees nothing.


----------



## moon7

southbound said:


> I recently saw a few minutes of a female comedian, Nikki Glaser, and she was doing a stand-up routine about when females first discover that bj’s are something they will be doing in life. She said she first thought maybe it was something that not every woman does, but then you realize it’s something you’ll be doing as a woman. She even went into the choice of swallow or spit.
> 
> This was all a comedy routine, but it did make me curious, are bj’s really something that is considered a normal act for women? This may sound strange coming from a guy, but I can honestly see where that wouldn’t be every woman’s cup of tea, just like bondage isn’t for everybody. Are bj’s considered a common practice among most couples who have a great relationship, and is it something most women don’t mind?


I'm not crazy for bj but I came to the conclusion it would be expected from me (for the amount of it in porn and porn influencing the sexual norm) way before I gave my first bj. BUT I though receiving oral sex was suposed to happen to me too, at least as a "thank you" gift, but it just never happened. I guess that as I was shy about receiving and never asked that became a pattern and as I started to complain was a little too late and hubby wouldnt do no matter what.

The infuriating part was when I asked if he did for other girlfriends and he said yes.


----------



## moon7

uhtred said:


> As are some of the saddest.
> 
> Often sexual mismatches are completely hidden from anyone but the people themselves. There is not a single person in real life who realizes the problems my wife and I have - to everyone we have the most perfect marriage imaginable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The best and happiest marriages I know are between those who didn't have sex before marriage. Most of those who come here with serious marriage issues had sex before marriage, so what does that say? It guarantees nothing.
Click to expand...

Both are true in some ways. But from my own experience, the sexual mismatched thing is the root, not by itself, but by egotism and cluelessness. I guess every couple is sexually mismatched in one way or another, but both put some effort on their sides so they reach a middle. The problem arises when only one side is doing all the job alone while the other only want his/her fun, not compromising nor caring for the minimal sexual needs of the other half (assuming thry are reasonable, of course). Both need to give and meet in the middle.


----------



## NickyT

Well, my husband never wanted me to perform oral even when I wanted to. He only performed oral on me a handful of times in our marriage and as it turned out, it was because he was all worked up over another woman. so...yeah....my life sucks.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Yes. It is a pretty standard sexual act. I’m in my 40s and I’ve never had an adult relationship that didn’t involve oral. Never even thought to question it .


----------



## moon7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Good communication can indeed be very helpful, indeed essential. But you can only communicate effectively to what you actually know. And you don't really know anything until you have some experience. When you have two virgins marrying, it's the blind leading the blind, sexually speaking and both are likely to fall in the sexual ditch as a result.
> People who choose to wait just need to be aware of this limitation.


I was actually a virgin and if I waited for my husband, who had at least 5 partners before me (i know its more, but he is prohibited of talking about it), I would have only learned to lay there on my side and look at the wall. 

So everything I learned from reading, watching, talking and throught IMAGINATION and applied to my relationship. 

So, by my "real life" experience, it ^^^^ isnt true at all.

Ps: imagination doesnt seem like it but is a pretty good source, btw.

The thing is, he tasted some stuff and didnt like and set for the most confortable to him, his "young and fun phase" (post-20's) was gonne and now that I came into the picture and everything for me was a novelty I wanted to experience, well, too bad for me.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

moon7 said:


> I was actually a virgin and if I waited for my husband, who had at least 5 partners before me (i know its more, but he is prohibited of talking about it), I would have only learned to lay there on my side and look at the wall.
> 
> So everything I learned from reading, watching, talking and throught IMAGINATION and applied to my relationship.
> 
> So, by my "real life" experience, it ^^^^ isnt true at all.
> 
> Ps: imagination doesnt seem like it but is a pretty good source, btw.


Glad it worked for you. But that is as much luck of the draw as it is anything you did. 

It doesn't work for everyone. 

I also did a lot of reading, watching, talking and I had quite the imagination. I suppose I was probably quite accurate with what I'd like or at least was game to try. But here's where the breakdown occurred... while I thought "yeah, I'd like to try X with my lifetime mate," I also though "no biggie if she's not into that." That's where I was wrong. Decades of same ol' same ol' had me really wanting more. So I was completely wrong in thinking I'd always be okay with the absolute basics. I want to share more with a partner and that is very important to me. 

So in the end, my ignorance about myself, based on my lack of experience, has been my undoing, and has been a strain on the marriage. 

So what I said is absolutely true--because I was saying it may or may not work depending on the specific couple involved.


----------



## BioFury

Lila said:


> That's not what I was implying at all. What I am saying is that based on your post history here on TAM, my understanding is that you have a very limited sexual experience history. How can you say this or that is a deal breaker when you haven't even gotten a taste of what you may or may not be calling a deal breaker? And this isn't to say that deal breakers are bad but just know what you are calling a deal breaker before you do make those kinds of decisions. You may find out in the long run that they weren't that big of a deal after all.
> 
> I'd also like to add that you are fishing in a very, very small pond. The women in that pond have their own set of expectations. You may be shooting yourself in the foot by not relaxing those deal breakers a bit. You might lose the battle but you can win the war.


Sure, I don't know 100%. But I can only make decisions with the knowledge I have. And what I know right now, is that sex and girls are my favorite things, and always have been. So it isn't something I'm going to compromise on going into marriage.

But that does give rise to a question if I may ask? You don't like having semen in your mouth, but was that something had really wanted, previous to trying it? Was the thought of a man ejaculating into your mouth a turn on, was it "meh", or even slightly repulsive?

I compromise anywhere I can, but I don't think marrying someone who thinks oral sex is gross, wrong, or unenjoyable, would be me winning at anything.


----------



## Lila

BioFury said:


> Sure, I don't know 100%. But I can only make decisions with the knowledge I have. And what I know right now, is that sex and girls are my favorite things, and always have been. So it isn't something I'm going to compromise on going into marriage.
> 
> I compromise anywhere I can, but I don't think marrying someone who thinks oral sex is gross, wrong, or unenjoyable, would be me winning at anything.


I'm very curious. How will you make sure that the person woman you marry will not think oral sex is gross, wrong, or unenjoyable unless you try it beforehand? Have you considered that she may just not be good at it? If I'm not mistaken, you will not be partaking in sex prior to marriage, correct?



BioFury said:


> But that does give rise to a question if I may ask? You don't like having semen in your mouth, but was that something had really wanted, previous to trying it? Was the thought of a man ejaculating into your mouth a turn on, was it "meh", or even slightly repulsive?


I had no idea what semen tasted like or it's texture prior to my first experience with it. I found it quite distasteful. I tried it a few more times with my 1st sexual boyfriend and then a couple of times with my husband, it never got better. 

I do enjoy giving oral sex under certain conditions. I haven't had any one of my lovers leave me because of my conditions. It could be that it wasn't a fetish for them or it could be that what I was willing to bring to the table was more than enough to make up for what I wasn't willing to bring.


----------



## uhtred

I think some mismatches are fundamental - as unchangeable as sexual orientation. That isn't always the case, but when it is, compromise is almost impossible. 




moon7 said:


> Both are true in some ways. But from my own experience, the sexual mismatched thing is the root, not by itself, but by egotism and cluelessness. I guess every couple is sexually mismatched in one way or another, but both put some effort on their sides so they reach a middle. The problem arises when only one side is doing all the job alone while the other only want his/her fun, not compromising nor caring for the minimal sexual needs of the other half (assuming thry are reasonable, of course). Both need to give and meet in the middle.


----------



## moon7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> moon7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was actually a virgin and if I waited for my husband, who had at least 5 partners before me (i know its more, but he is prohibited of talking about it), I would have only learned to lay there on my side and look at the wall.
> 
> So everything I learned from reading, watching, talking and throught IMAGINATION and applied to my relationship.
> 
> So, by my "real life" experience, it ^^^^ isnt true at all.
> 
> Ps: imagination doesnt seem like it but is a pretty good source, btw.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad it worked for you. But that is as much luck of the draw as it is anything you did.
> 
> It doesn't work for everyone.
> 
> I also did a lot of reading, watching, talking and I had quite the imagination. I suppose I was probably quite accurate with what I'd like or at least was game to try. But here's where the breakdown occurred... while I thought "yeah, I'd like to try X with my lifetime mate," I also though "no biggie if she's not into that." That's where I was wrong. Decades of same ol' same ol' had me really wanting more. So I was completely wrong in thinking I'd always be okay with the absolute basics. I want to share more with a partner and that is very important to me.
> 
> So in the end, my ignorance about myself, based on my lack of experience, has been my undoing, and has been a strain on the marriage.
> 
> So what I said is absolutely true--because I was saying it may or may not work depending on the specific couple involved.
Click to expand...

True then.


----------



## MarriedTex

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Glad it worked for you. But that is as much luck of the draw as it is anything you did.
> 
> It doesn't work for everyone.
> 
> I also did a lot of reading, watching, talking and I had quite the imagination. I suppose I was probably quite accurate with what I'd like or at least was game to try. But here's where the breakdown occurred... while I thought "yeah, I'd like to try X with my lifetime mate," I also though "no biggie if she's not into that." That's where I was wrong. Decades of same ol' same ol' had me really wanting more. So I was completely wrong in thinking I'd always be okay with the absolute basics. I want to share more with a partner and that is very important to me.
> 
> So in the end, my ignorance about myself, based on my lack of experience, has been my undoing, and has been a strain on the marriage.
> 
> So what I said is absolutely true--because I was saying it may or may not work depending on the specific couple involved.


This is absolutely the case for me as well. Lack of experience (coupled with a good case of low self-esteem) made me more willing to compromise than should have been the case. On the whole, things have turned out fine, but - on this particular issue - I do feel somewhat shortchanged.


----------



## BioFury

Lila said:


> I'm very curious. How will you make sure that the person woman you marry will not think oral sex is gross, wrong, or unenjoyable unless you try it beforehand? Have you considered that she may just not be good at it? If I'm not mistaken, you will not be partaking in sex prior to marriage, correct?
> 
> I had no idea what semen tasted like or it's texture prior to my first experience with it. I found it quite distasteful. I tried it a few more times with my 1st sexual boyfriend and then a couple of times with my husband, it never got better.
> 
> I do enjoy giving oral sex under certain conditions. I haven't had any one of my lovers leave me because of my conditions. It could be that it wasn't a fetish for them or it could be that what I was willing to bring to the table was more than enough to make up for what I wasn't willing to bring.


I'll talk to her about it. It's not a guarantee, but if she's aroused by the idea, and is eager to try it, then that's all I can ask for. A girl with that outlook would be more likely to enjoy it, than one who reacts with trepidation, or some level of disgust.

But what were your expectations? The first time you did it, you presumably knew what would eventually happen? Did the thought of his semen in your mouth worry you, or arouse you?

Yes, but I recall you mentioning that some men had elected not to pursue a relationship with you, after you explained that you thought their semen was disgusting (I'm teasing :laugh: ). I'd be willing to accept if she didn't want to swallow it, but not letting it in her mouth at all... That really wouldn't be cool. An interruption, or change in the type of stimulation during or right before orgasm is not gratifying.

Aside from the fact that I want her to be a part of my orgasms. How would you feel if your partner got you 99% there, then backed up so he didn't get your orgasm cooties all over him?


----------



## Lila

BioFury said:


> I'll talk to her about it. It's not a guarantee, but if she's aroused by the idea, and is eager to try it, then that's all I can ask for. A girl with that outlook would be more likely to enjoy it, than one who reacts with trepidation, or some level of disgust.
> 
> But what were your expectations? The first time you did it, you presumably knew what would eventually happen? Did the thought of his semen in your mouth worry you, or arouse you?
> 
> Yes, but I recall you mentioning that some men had elected not to pursue a relationship with you, after you explained that you thought their semen was disgusting (I'm teasing :laugh: ). I'd be willing to accept if she didn't want to swallow it, but not letting it in her mouth at all... That really wouldn't be cool. An interruption, or change in the type of stimulation during or right before orgasm is not gratifying.


I honestly can't recall what I was thinking when it was happening. It was a very long time ago. 




BioFury said:


> Aside from the fact that I want her to be a part of my orgasms. How would you feel if your partner got you 99% there, then backed up so he didn't get your orgasm cooties all over him?


:laugh: That's why I don't make it anyone else's responsibility to bring me to orgasm. If I want one, I get it one way or another. But to specifically answer your question, I have had plenty of partners and that's never happened to me nor have I done it them. Why? Because I've made sure that we understand each other's boundaries and expectations. 

My only advice to you is to make sure that you and whomever you're interested in share your boundaries and expectations.


----------



## BioFury

Lila said:


> I honestly can't recall what I was thinking when it was happening. It was a very long time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :laugh: That's why I don't make it anyone else's responsibility to bring me to orgasm. If I want one, I get it one way or another. But to specifically answer your question, I have had plenty of partners and that's never happened to me nor have I done it them. Why? Because I've made sure that we understand each other's boundaries and expectations.
> 
> My only advice to you is to make sure that you and whomever you're interested in share your boundaries and expectations.


Alrighty. I would have been curious to know whether your current disposition was a product of your perceptions previous to the experience. Or whether you were excited about it happening, but then did a 180 when you experienced the taste.

That is very wise advice. I love talking about sex, so it tends to happen regardless of whether I intend to "discuss it" or not > Though, it doesn't come up when girls are closed off to the subject. Some don't allow conversations to go in that direction, and those are the ones I usually don't pursue. While the ones I go after are typically the ones who throw flirty comments and the occasional innuendo my way.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That is something we should all aspire to. Now--what if "a good sex life" includes oral?


That should be something that people talk about before marriage. If a man said to me that unless I did this, or unless I did that he wouldn't marry me, I would know that he wasn't the man for me. I wouldn't lay down conditions either, nor ever pressure anyone into anything.


----------



## Diana7

moon7 said:


> Both are true in some ways. But from my own experience, the sexual mismatched thing is the root, not by itself, but by egotism and cluelessness. I guess every couple is sexually mismatched in one way or another, but both put some effort on their sides so they reach a middle. The problem arises when only one side is doing all the job alone while the other only want his/her fun, not compromising nor caring for the minimal sexual needs of the other half (assuming thry are reasonable, of course). Both need to give and meet in the middle.


This is what I have said on this forum many times, that compromise is vital in a marriage and that includes sex.
Also if both go into marriage with the idea that they want to please the other, and not that they are looking to please themselves, things will be very different.


----------



## Diana7

moon7 said:


> I'm not crazy for bj but I came to the conclusion it would be expected from me (for the amount of it in porn and porn influencing the sexual norm) way before I gave my first bj. BUT I though receiving oral sex was suposed to happen to me too, at least as a "thank you" gift, but it just never happened. I guess that as I was shy about receiving and never asked that became a pattern and as I started to complain was a little too late and hubby wouldnt do no matter what.
> 
> The infuriating part was when I asked if he did for other girlfriends and he said yes.


You are a wise young lady, you are right in that porn use has had a massive influence on what people want in their sex lives with real people in real life.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Diana7 said:


> That should be something that people talk about before marriage. If a man said to me that unless I did this, or unless I did that he wouldn't marry me, I would know that he wasn't the man for me. I wouldn't lay down conditions either, nor ever pressure anyone into anything.


Makes sense. 

The only problem is that if inexperienced and not really knowing what one is or isn't willing to do, one might say "yeah, I'd like to do that with you" but then after the knot is tied and the knickers come off, one realizes they cant bring themself to do it. 

Intentional or not, it becomes a bait and switch. Not good for the union.


----------



## Diana7

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> The only problem is that if inexperienced and not really knowing what one is or isn't willing to do, one might say "yeah, I'd like to do that with you" but then after the knot is tied and the knickers come off, one realizes they cant bring themself to do it.
> 
> Intentional or not, it becomes a bait and switch. Not good for the union.


Yes I get your point, but I think that most people would have a pretty good idea of what they would be willing to do. 
Just to give an example, I would know that if a man wanted to use porn or for us both to watch porn as part of sex, he wouldn't be the man for me.


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> What makes you think that a woman who wont do blow jobs is closed sexually? She may well be happy to do all sorts of other things but not that.


Experience.

I remember being with one woman (older than me and divorced) who was unwilling to give or receive oral sex. At the same time she also insisted on having sex with the lights out. While she just lay there "missionary" doing not much at all. All while she was the one who asked me out on a date, paid for it, took me home to her place and initiated the sex.

So to her surprise and disappointment (which I cannot fathom since the sex was so lame), I sensibly dumped her the following day.

Of which I really like the "missionary" position and variations for penetrative sex. Since it affords great mutual intimacy, for face to face stuff like looking at each other, kissing and breast play etc. Plus the position also makes getting a woman to orgasm via PIV sex, pretty easy to achieve as well.

It's one thing not to swallow, and a completely different thing not to do oral sex at all.

Especially since oral sex is such an integral part of human sexuality, being practiced throughout our history, prehistory and by our primate cousins as well.

Onto the other things?

Are you talking about different sex positions for penetrative sex? Since if that's all there is, then boring! Plus different positions, end up being variations of a limited number of things.

On the other hand (pun intended) if its hand jobs, no thanks! If I want a hand job, I can do that myself.

Other than that, what then?

Fisting for her and or him.
Anal sex.
Public sex.
Pegging.
Foot fisting.
Prostate massage.
Golden showers.
Gang bangs.
Group sex.
Erotic spanking.
Erotic lactation.
Dogging.
Bondage.
Double penetration.

Seriously I'm at a loss, as to what those many other things might be.

Since removing oral sex, removes so many options. Of which even with the limited list above, most/all of those things are extremely likely to be off limits with someone who won't do oral sex.

That said I think there's nothing wrong with being more closed or open sexually.

Yet let us not pretend that someone who has a limited range of sexual practices, isn't more closed sexually than someone who has a broad range.


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> Being compatible sexually is but one of many important things in a good marriage. Also of course there is compromise. We really don't have to always get what WE want all the time in life. Its also about giving and respecting the person we love.


Of which applying your logic, a wife should then give her husband whatever he wants sexually. Including oral sex to completion (even if she doesn't want to), in order to compromise and to be giving to the husband they love.



> If having to have a BJ is so vital, then what happens if your wife gets ill, or is badly disabled say? Will people leave their wives because they are no longer getting their own selfish needs met? Or is marriage far more important than that?


Not being able to fulfil a spouses sexual desires does not always see an end to a marital relationship.

If I was no longer able to meet my wife's sexual desires through illness or injury, my wife already knows that I am fine with her satiating her desires through seeking sex with others.



> I am amazed at what I read here. The selfishness and self centeredness that is so apparent. :frown2:


Indeed, withholding blowjobs is such extraordinary selfish behaviour.



> How about we go into marriage with what we can do for our partner and not for what WE can get out of it.


If you insist.

So if a man or woman doesn't want to give their partner oral sex. Should they just do it, to ensure they aren't being selfish and self centred?


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> You really don't need to have sex before marriage to know what you would and wouldn't want.


Well that may apply to you, yet that certainly isn't a universal given.

If one remains a virgin until marriage, they may have no idea what they will actually like and dislike in practice having never experienced it beforehand. One can discuss such things all they like, yet hypothesising what one is into, is largely meaningless absent actually testing such things through practice.

For example there was a time I thought 69 oral sex might be fun. Yet following plenty of experience in it with a few different women including my wife (being game). Despite enjoying giving oral sex and receiving it. I learned through experience that I don't really like both of them together, so I don't do that anymore.


----------



## Marduk

Diana7 said:


> You are a wise young lady, you are right in that porn use has had a massive influence on what people want in their sex lives with real people in real life.


This might happen, but BJs and going down on girls have been part of even my early sex life in the mid 80s when porn usually meant playboys, penthouse magazines, and the occasional dirty movie somebody's dad had. So I'm kinda not buying that one. 

Other things like anal and stuff becoming more prevalent I'd buy porn being a big factor. But not oral.


----------



## Personal

moon7 said:


> The infuriating part was when I asked if he did for other girlfriends and he said yes.


If you settle for less, you are certain to get what you settled for.


----------



## moon7

Personal said:


> moon7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The infuriating part was when I asked if he did for other girlfriends and he said yes.
> 
> 
> 
> If you settle for less, you are certain to get what you settled for.
Click to expand...

I know. I just had this idea of asking way later and tried to nag, complain or whatever, but it didnt work. And separate after me changing my whole life and city 
house and kids over oral sex seems pointless. He is aware i think our sex life is boring af, but just wont meet me halfway.


----------



## Personal

moon7 said:


> He is aware i think our sex life is boring af, *but just wont meet me halfway*.


If he won't meet you, there are other options.


----------



## heartsbeating

...so I put on the comedy special, starts with the bj stuff and I wasn't finding it funny (only got a few mins in), so being an impatient home-viewer, switched over to Deon Cole's stand up instead. 

Spoiler alert... his special ends with bj-talk.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Marduk said:


> Other things like anal and stuff becoming more prevalent I'd buy porn being a big factor. But not oral.


I agree with this....I do think it can influence unhealthy behaviors as well as set unrealistic expectations. I think it plants the idea of fantasies in some people's minds that lead to the end of their relationship. Specifically when people become obsessed with things like wife sharing, or the really rough stuff. Truth be told I don't really like most modern day porn. It all seems so mechanical. I also feel like no one being filmed is even enjoying themselves. I guess I feel like the much older stuff was much closer to what actually happens in real bedrooms.


----------



## uhtred

I agree that is infuriating. While I'm a great fan or oral, I see it as a "gift" for one's partner and a gift that should be reciprocated if desired. Ses should be balanced with each doing their best to please the other



moon7 said:


> I'm not crazy for bj but I came to the conclusion it would be expected from me (for the amount of it in porn and porn influencing the sexual norm) way before I gave my first bj. BUT I though receiving oral sex was suposed to happen to me too, at least as a "thank you" gift, but it just never happened. I guess that as I was shy about receiving and never asked that became a pattern and as I started to complain was a little too late and hubby wouldnt do no matter what.
> 
> The infuriating part was when I asked if he did for other girlfriends and he said yes.


----------



## uhtred

I don't see anything wrong with having specific expectations, and I don't see anything wrong with not marrying someone who has expectations that don't work for you. As long as everyone is honest from the outset, it seems fine. 




Diana7 said:


> That should be something that people talk about before marriage. If a man said to me that unless I did this, or unless I did that he wouldn't marry me, I would know that he wasn't the man for me. I wouldn't lay down conditions either, nor ever pressure anyone into anything.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

moon7 said:


> I know. I just had this idea of asking way later and tried to nag, complain or whatever, but it didnt work. And separate after me changing my whole life and city
> house and kids over oral sex seems pointless. He is aware i think our sex life is boring af, but just wont meet me halfway.


He should do oral for you first, before you do (if you choose to) do oral for him.

That imho should be an insistence on your part. Most definitely insist on it.

It may be he's not that experienced at it, opposite from what he wants you to think.

Perhaps telling specifically how to ho about it, what you like etc, in a playful but serious way, will help. Or some variation of communicating same.


----------



## notmyjamie

Marduk said:


> Or, once committed, they change the terms of the relationship. That happens quite often as well.
> 
> “After being married 10 years and having 2 kids, I’ve realized I’m actually asexual. You wouldn’t break our family up over something as trivial as sex, would you?”


That is just cruel to do to a person and I've been a victim of it. My STBX is gay...if that's not a bait and switch I don't know what is. He absolutely wants to stay married and I know he can't believe I'm leaving him over something as trivial as sex. 

My neighbor is dealing with the exact scenario you described...his wife if now coming out at asexual, 20 years into their marriage. She's "willing" to lay there once in a while to satisfy him but tells him outright that she hates it so he feels like if he takes her up on it it's like raping her which he wants no part of...he told her recently he wants a divorce. I know he hasn't gotten oral in over 20 years. 

I think even if you discuss things and try to find someone compatible, if they are hiding who they really are, it will all fall apart eventually.


----------



## uhtred

Agreed. Its really a mean thing to trap someone in a marriage where they are unhappy. Its especially bad to intentionally deceive someone to trap them. 





notmyjamie said:


> That is just cruel to do to a person and I've been a victim of it. My STBX is gay...if that's not a bait and switch I don't know what is. He absolutely wants to stay married and I know he can't believe I'm leaving him over something as trivial as sex.
> 
> My neighbor is dealing with the exact scenario you described...his wife if now coming out at asexual, 20 years into their marriage. She's "willing" to lay there once in a while to satisfy him but tells him outright that she hates it so he feels like if he takes her up on it it's like raping her which he wants no part of...he told her recently he wants a divorce. I know he hasn't gotten oral in over 20 years.
> 
> I think even if you discuss things and try to find someone compatible, if they are hiding who they really are, it will all fall apart eventually.


----------



## minimalME

I don't believe that the majority of people are maliciously baiting and switching and intentionally trapping others. 

We do seem to enjoy thinking the worst though.

I trust that most are doing the best they can, and I try to remind myself of that when I feel hurt by someone else's behavior. 

We tend to be very forgiving of our own faults, yet have unrealistic/unreasonable expectations of those around us.

No one knows what a marriage (or any relationship) holds. It doesn't matter how many questions you ask or how prepared you think you are. Life simply isn't that nice and neat.




notmyjamie said:


> I think even if you discuss things and try to find someone compatible, if they are hiding who they really are, it will all fall apart eventually.





uhtred said:


> Agreed. Its really a mean thing to trap someone in a marriage where they are unhappy. Its especially bad to intentionally deceive someone to trap them.


----------



## Marduk

notmyjamie said:


> That is just cruel to do to a person and I've been a victim of it. My STBX is gay...if that's not a bait and switch I don't know what is. He absolutely wants to stay married and I know he can't believe I'm leaving him over something as trivial as sex.
> 
> My neighbor is dealing with the exact scenario you described...his wife if now coming out at asexual, 20 years into their marriage. She's "willing" to lay there once in a while to satisfy him but tells him outright that she hates it so he feels like if he takes her up on it it's like raping her which he wants no part of...he told her recently he wants a divorce. I know he hasn't gotten oral in over 20 years.
> 
> I think even if you discuss things and try to find someone compatible, if they are hiding who they really are, it will all fall apart eventually.


The funny thing is... I know a few people that have claimed to ‘discover’ that they were asexual after being married for a while and having kids. So they divorce...

And turns out they’re not asexual after all. They just didn’t want to have sex with their spouse. They’re super randy and **** everyone they can as often as they can as long as it’s not the person they were married to. Go figure.

I’m not saying asexuality isn’t a thing, but I do regard sudden discoveries of asexuality later in life and especially while in committed relationships rather suspicious.


----------



## Marduk

minimalME said:


> I don't believe that the majority of people are maliciously baiting and switching and intentionally trapping others.
> 
> We do seem to enjoy thinking the worst though.
> 
> I trust that most are doing the best they can, and I try to remind myself of that when I feel hurt by someone else's behavior.
> 
> We tend to be very forgiving of our own faults, yet have unrealistic/unreasonable expectations of those around us.
> 
> No one knows what a marriage (or any relationship) holds. It doesn't matter how many questions you ask or how prepared you think you are. Life simply isn't that nice and neat.


I think it’s quite common for LD people to pretend to be HD or at least someone medium-desire long enough to get married and to ‘settle down.’ I think it’s not that different than people that stay in shape while dating, then let it all go after they get married, or people that are quite self-sufficient until they get married, and then want their spouse to do all the work. 

People hide their perceived faults to be attractive until they feel safe and locked in, then they let themselves be who they naturally are.


----------



## notmyjamie

minimalME said:


> I don't believe that the majority of people are maliciously baiting and switching and intentionally trapping others.
> 
> Agreed. I think a lot of the "hiding" I mention is the person actually hiding something from themselves.
> 
> We do seem to enjoy thinking the worst though.
> 
> I don't. I prefer to think more positively to be honest. I do feel I got the ultimate bait and switch from my husband but I don't think he did it just to be a bastard. He was confused and scared and couldn't accept who he really is. I would have preferred he left me out of it but it is what it is. I know he loved/loves me but that's just not enough unfortunately.
> 
> I trust that most are doing the best they can, and I try to remind myself of that when I feel hurt by someone else's behavior.
> 
> There are people who do hurt others intentionally and those people I do not feel kindly to, but others, who make human mistakes, I do feel sympathy and compassion for, even if I ended up hurt. I feel great sympathy for my STBX and what he's been going through, I still wish he hadn't pulled me into his dysfunction.
> 
> We tend to be very forgiving of our own faults, yet have unrealistic/unreasonable expectations of those around us.
> 
> I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to be honest about their sexuality before they marry you. I think that's common sense. I get why he did it, I really do, but I still think he should have told me the truth and let me decide from there.
> 
> No one knows what a marriage (or any relationship) holds. It doesn't matter how many questions you ask or how prepared you think you are. Life simply isn't that nice and neat.
> 
> On this I agree. My boyfriend's marriage is a good example. He says they had a good, loving marriage for many years. The last 5 years changed everything for various reasons that nobody could have predicted. If life were nice and neat all the time there would be a lot less broken hearts but it would also be pretty damn boring at times.


----------



## notmyjamie

Marduk said:


> The funny thing is... I know a few people that have claimed to ‘discover’ that they were asexual after being married for a while and having kids. So they divorce...
> 
> And turns out they’re not asexual after all. They just didn’t want to have sex with their spouse. They’re super randy and **** everyone they can as often as they can as long as it’s not the person they were married to. Go figure.
> 
> I’m not saying asexuality isn’t a thing, but I do regard sudden discoveries of asexuality later in life and especially while in committed relationships rather suspicious.


I'm sure this happens a lot. I think in my neighbor's case though she truly is asexual. She has never enjoyed sex with anyone and sex is just not something she thinks about, ever. Double entendres are always lost on her. Everyone else in the room is always laughing and she's just lost. And although she's never told him flat out before that she doesn't want sex, she has always acted like it's a giant chore for her. I feel badly for him but I wonder why he married her in the first place. He says she has always been this way.


----------



## minimalME

How does one pretend to have a high drive?

I think it's more reasonable that initial attraction is much more filled with lust than many years of married life to another imperfect person - plus bills, children and the other general stresses of life.

And all people hide their imperfections. Every single one of us. 

We hide from God, we hide from ourselves, and we hide from one another.

As I said before, I don't believe the intentions of most people are malicious - as in, 'I'm gonna walk down the aisle with this person, and then cut them off sexually for the next 20 years'. I don't think my ex-husband said that to himself.

What I do think is that when we make other people monsters, we abdicate personal responsibility. What do we read more of on this site? How the poster failed? Or how it was someone else's fault?

It's so much more comfortable to tell ourselves, 'I was a great spouse, and then this villain ruined everything'.




Marduk said:


> I think it’s quite common for LD people to pretend to be HD or at least someone medium-desire long enough to get married and to ‘settle down.’ I think it’s not that different than people that stay in shape while dating, then let it all go after they get married, or people that are quite self-sufficient until they get married, and then want their spouse to do all the work.
> 
> People hide their perceived faults to be attractive until they feel safe and locked in, then they let themselves be who they naturally are.


----------



## Numb26

notmyjamie said:


> minimalME said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that the majority of people are maliciously baiting and switching and intentionally trapping others.
> 
> Agreed. I think a lot of the "hiding" I mention is the person actually hiding something from themselves.
> 
> We do seem to enjoy thinking the worst though.
> 
> I don't. I prefer to think more positively to be honest. I do feel I got the ultimate bait and switch from my husband but I don't think he did it just to be a bastard. He was confused and scared and couldn't accept who he really is. I would have preferred he left me out of it but it is what it is. I know he loved/loves me but that's just not enough unfortunately.
> 
> I trust that most are doing the best they can, and I try to remind myself of that when I feel hurt by someone else's behavior.
> 
> There are people who do hurt others intentionally and those people I do not feel kindly to, but others, who make human mistakes, I do feel sympathy and compassion for, even if I ended up hurt. I feel great sympathy for my STBX and what he's been going through, I still wish he hadn't pulled me into his dysfunction.
> 
> We tend to be very forgiving of our own faults, yet have unrealistic/unreasonable expectations of those around us.
> 
> I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to be honest about their sexuality before they marry you. I think that's common sense. I get why he did it, I really do, but I still think he should have told me the truth and let me decide from there.
> 
> No one knows what a marriage (or any relationship) holds. It doesn't matter how many questions you ask or how prepared you think you are. Life simply isn't that nice and neat.
> 
> On this I agree. My boyfriend's marriage is a good example. He says they had a good, loving marriage for many years. The last 5 years changed everything for various reasons that nobody could have predicted. If life were nice and neat all the time there would be a lot less broken hearts but it would also be pretty damn boring at times.
Click to expand...

Since we are in somewhat of the same situation I can honestly say that you are a lot more forgiving towards your X then I am towards mine. 
Thinking back, I can now see that I absolutely got "bait and switched". I was just to blind or to nice of a guy to notice or complain. That won't happen again!


----------



## Marduk

minimalME said:


> How does one pretend to have a high drive?
> 
> I think it's more reasonable that initial attraction is much more filled with lust than many years of married life to another imperfect person - plus bills, children and the other general stresses of life.
> 
> And all people hide their imperfections. Every single one of us.
> 
> We hide from God, we hide from ourselves, and we hide from one another.
> 
> As I said before, I don't believe the intentions of most people are malicious - as in, 'I'm gonna walk down the aisle with this person, and then cut them off sexually for the next 20 years'. I don't think my ex-husband said that to himself.
> 
> What I do think is that when we make other people monsters, we abdicate personal responsibility. What do we read more of on this site? How the poster failed? Or how it was someone else's fault?
> 
> It's so much more comfortable to tell ourselves, 'I was a great spouse, and then this villian ruined everything'.


I’ve had it happen to me. 

My ex wife has done it to other guys after me, apparently. 

I’ve overheard many wives talk about it to each other. Hell, one of them laughed about not giving her husband a BJ for more than a decade and what a relief it is. They’re separating, and she’s giving them out like candy to other guys, often on the first date. 

I know a guy that stopped having sex with his wife because he’s depressed. Now divorced, he’s suddenly very interested in sex. 

People portray themselves as attractively as possible when they’re trying to attract mates. They can only keep it up so long, though. 

Plus, attraction in LTRs can be a complex problem.


----------



## notmyjamie

Numb26 said:


> Since we are in somewhat of the same situation I can honestly say that you are a lot more forgiving towards your X then I am towards mine.
> Thinking back, I can now see that I absolutely got "bait and switched". I was just to blind or to nice of a guy to notice or complain. That won't happen again!


I think the big difference is the way your STBX acts towards you and the way mine acts towards me. My STBX still loves me, still wants to stay married. I know, for absolute certainty that he loves me. That alone tells me he didn't bait and switch on purpose. He was honest with me about what happened with his family when he first started showing signs that he might be gay. All hell broke loose. I can completely understand why he went so deep into the closet that he even fooled himself for many years. He truly thought that wanting and having sex with men didn't necessarily mean he was gay because after all, he loves me, how can he be gay? Denial is a very strong thing...I know because I denied it for years myself. So I can understand how he fooled even himself. When I finally called him out on it he still vehemently denied that he was gay despite LOTS of proof to the contrary. 

And although he's never apologized and has done things to delay the divorce proceedings, he does, in fact, give me just about everything I ask for in this separation/divorce sometimes to his own detriment. I know he's sorry for everything but just can't bring himself to admit it. Someday maybe he'll get there. Right now he's having to see that I've moved on, I'm dating someone new, and I know that's bothering him. He can be selfish about some things (mostly involving the kids though) and I've read that can happen when a person finally comes out later in life. It pisses me off to see but I'm hoping as he settles into his new life he won't be so bad. But, he's been trending towards a new selfishness over the last 5 years or so anyway. He also has NO idea of what he's done to me. He just 
can't comprehend the damage he caused. I think that's a case of him not wanting to face it. We all have our faults, I'm sure he can list some of mine too.

Your STBX on the other hand is being a total ***** about everything. She has the audacity to be angry at YOU because she got caught doing something she probably wanted to pretend she didn't. She could have had this great secret homosexual sex on the side and kept her white picket fence life if you had just left it alone. How ****ing dare you???? She's now forced to confront something she never wanted to confront and she is blaming you for it. She might settle down as she grows to accept herself. 

Maybe she, too, hid this from herself. Maybe she does really love you the way my STBX loves me. She may have thought you were enough to overcome those hidden desires she wanted to pretend didn't exist. I know my STBX thought I was...people who knew us back when we first got together are shocked we are divorcing. He seemed to be absolutely crazy about me back then...and he honestly was I think, but I turned out not to be enough. But even if this is how it was for her, you can't see it because she's just being such a ***** about everything as if her infidelity and sexual dishonesty is your fault, not hers. And it is her fault. None of this is your fault and don't ever let her make you think it is.

You've probably figured out that I'm a pretty empathetic and forgiving person by nature. But, don't forget that I've also had a lot more time to come to where I am now. If you want back to some of my original posts on this topic I didn't sound so understanding and forgiving. I've known about my STBX for more than half of my marriage. I pretended it wasn't true for many years but even so, I've mourned the loss of what I thought my marriage was for about 2 1/2 years now. You might get there too in that time if she stops blaming you for her issues and shows some remorse for what she's done.

Either way, stay strong. And keep reminding yourself that none of this is on you. None of it. You didn't cause her to be gay or bi or whatever she is...it just is what it is and she handled it all the wrong way.

*hugs*

ETA: I've made a very concerted effort not to make my new guy "pay" for the sins of my STBX...please make sure you do the same or you'll ruin your next relationship.


----------



## Numb26

notmyjamie said:


> Numb26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since we are in somewhat of the same situation I can honestly say that you are a lot more forgiving towards your X then I am towards mine.
> Thinking back, I can now see that I absolutely got "bait and switched". I was just to blind or to nice of a guy to notice or complain. That won't happen again!
> 
> 
> 
> I think the big difference is the way your STBX acts towards you and the way mine acts towards me. My STBX still loves me, still wants to stay married. I know, for absolute certainty that he loves me. That alone tells me he didn't bait and switch on purpose. He was honest with me about what happened with his family when he first started showing signs that he might be gay. All hell broke loose. I can completely understand why he went so deep into the closet that he even fooled himself for many years. He truly thought that wanting and having sex with men didn't necessarily mean he was gay because after all, he loves me, how can he be gay? Denial is a very strong thing...I know because I denied it for years myself. So I can understand how he fooled even himself. When I finally called him out on it he still vehemently denied that he was gay despite LOTS of proof to the contrary.
> 
> And although he's never apologized and has done things to delay the divorce proceedings, he does, in fact, give me just about everything I ask for in this separation/divorce sometimes to his own detriment. I know he's sorry for everything but just can't bring himself to admit it. Someday maybe he'll get there. Right now he's having to see that I've moved on, I'm dating someone new, and I know that's bothering him. He can be selfish about some things (mostly involving the kids though) and I've read that can happen when a person finally comes out later in life. It pisses me off to see but I'm hoping as he settles into his new life he won't be so bad. But, he's been trending towards a new selfishness over the last 5 years or so anyway. He also has NO idea of what he's done to me. He just
> can't comprehend the damage he caused. I think that's a case of him not wanting to face it. We all have our faults, I'm sure he can list some of mine too.
> 
> Your STBX on the other hand is being a total ***** about everything. She has the audacity to be angry at YOU because she got caught doing something she probably wanted to pretend she didn't. She could have had this great secret homosexual sex on the side and kept her white picket fence life if you had just left it alone. How ****ing dare you???? She's now forced to confront something she never wanted to confront and she is blaming you for it. She might settle down as she grows to accept herself.
> 
> Maybe she, too, hid this from herself. Maybe she does really love you the way my STBX loves me. She may have thought you were enough to overcome those hidden desires she wanted to pretend didn't exist. I know my STBX thought I was...people who knew us back when we first got together are shocked we are divorcing. He seemed to be absolutely crazy about me back then...and he honestly was I think, but I turned out not to be enough. But even if this is how it was for her, you can't see it because she's just being such a ***** about everything as if her infidelity and sexual dishonesty is your fault, not hers. And it is her fault. None of this is your fault and don't ever let her make you think it is.
> 
> You've probably figured out that I'm a pretty empathetic and forgiving person by nature. But, don't forget that I've also had a lot more time to come to where I am now. If you want back to some of my original posts on this topic I didn't sound so understanding and forgiving. I've known about my STBX for more than half of my marriage. I pretended it wasn't true for many years but even so, I've mourned the loss of what I thought my marriage was for about 2 1/2 years now. You might get there too in that time if she stops blaming you for her issues and shows some remorse for what she's done.
> 
> Either way, stay strong. And keep reminding yourself that none of this is on you. None of it. You didn't cause her to be gay or bi or whatever she is...it just is what it is and she handled it all the wrong way.
> 
> *hugs*
> 
> ETA: I've made a very concerted effort not to make my new guy "pay" for the sins of my STBX...please make sure you do the same or you'll ruin your next relationship.
Click to expand...

Thanks for those words. You made me a little emotional. LOL I know it isn't my fault. I will NEVER believe that anything I did or didn't do warranted what she did.

And as for punishing the person in my next relationship....I don't think that will be a problem. I plan on flying solo for now, maybe date casually, but I don't think I will be in a LTR again. To many things I want to do that I never had the chance to when I was married


----------



## notmyjamie

Numb26 said:


> Thanks for those words. You made me a little emotional. LOL I know it isn't my fault. I will NEVER believe that anything I did or didn't do warranted what she did.
> 
> And as for punishing the person in my next relationship....I don't think that will be a problem. I plan on flying solo for now, maybe date casually, but I don't think I will be in a LTR again. To many things I want to do that I never had the chance to when I was married


Sorry to get you emotional...but it's par for the course when dealing with what we're dealing with I think. :frown2:

And that's a great goal...do the things you didn't get to do before. I'm doing some of that, sort of. I never lived alone before and I sort of live alone now. I have my own apartment which I'm very much enjoying. Granted, my kids can come and go in it as they please, but it's still all my space. If I take out my complete lack of privacy from my STBX and my kids it's the best of both worlds. 

But don't be surprised if you find yourself with someone new long before you thought you would be. I swore up and down that I would never find anyone and that I wasn't looking just two weeks before I met my boyfriend. I'm having a blast with him...we have the same taste in music, books, tv, movies, food, etc. He's a musician and so I'm learning so much with him and experiencing a lot of new things too. I have no idea where it will go so I'm just enjoying it for what it is right now...something else I've never done.


----------



## moon7

notmyjamie said:


> Marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or, once committed, they change the terms of the relationship. That happens quite often as well.
> 
> “After being married 10 years and having 2 kids, I’ve realized I’m actually asexual. You wouldn’t break our family up over something as trivial as sex, would you?”
> 
> 
> 
> That is just cruel to do to a person and I've been a victim of it. My STBX is gay...if that's not a bait and switch I don't know what is. He absolutely wants to stay married and I know he can't believe I'm leaving him over something as trivial as sex.
> 
> My neighbor is dealing with the exact scenario you described...his wife if now coming out at asexual, 20 years into their marriage. She's "willing" to lay there once in a while to satisfy him but tells him outright that she hates it so he feels like if he takes her up on it it's like raping her which he wants no part of...he told her recently he wants a divorce. I know he hasn't gotten oral in over 20 years.
> 
> I think even if you discuss things and try to find someone compatible, if they are hiding who they really are, it will all fall apart eventually.
Click to expand...

Im so sorry, notmyjamie. S2


----------



## moon7

minimalME said:


> We hide from God, we hide from ourselves, and we hide from one another.


This!!! And the rest too. But we mostly hide from ourselves and blameshift. It will always come to this. Me doing it, my partner doing it, doesnt matter.


----------



## moon7

uhtred said:


> I agree that is infuriating. While I'm a great fan or oral, I see it as a "gift" for one's partner and a gift that should be reciprocated if desired. Ses should be balanced with each doing their best to please the other
> 
> 
> 
> moon7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not crazy for bj but I came to the conclusion it would be expected from me (for the amount of it in porn and porn influencing the sexual norm) way before I gave my first bj. BUT I though receiving oral sex was suposed to happen to me too, at least as a "thank you" gift, but it just never happened. I guess that as I was shy about receiving and never asked that became a pattern and as I started to complain was a little too late and hubby wouldnt do no matter what.
> 
> The infuriating part was when I asked if he did for other girlfriends and he said yes.
Click to expand...

True. Like every little thing is a gift (or no) we give each other in a relationship. I'm sure he thinks I'm a ***** in other areas of our relationship but just swallow the pill. Im just almost 9 month pregnant and feeling like conplaining of everything. It didnt afect me so much before, but now hormones and stuff made me feel pissed off and unloved with our mismatch. Hahhaha. Dont take me too serious until after I give birth.


----------



## notmyjamie

moon7 said:


> Im so sorry, notmyjamie. S2


Thank you. I'm moving forward and things are looking better and better for me every day. :smile2:


----------



## moon7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> He should do oral for you first, before you do (if you choose to) do oral for him.
> 
> That imho should be an insistence on your part. Most definitely insist on it.


I tried a lot, but he just doesnt. And I know if I stop and wait until he does it will escalate to that passive agressive area that kills the excitment.

But I will start trying again. I have nothing to lose, after all.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It may be he's not that experienced at it, opposite from what he wants you to think.


I'm pretty sure he is kinda lame at it, because if I assume that if he were good he would feel some kind of pride about it.

I get a feeling he doesnt like my genital area at all. Mine or female in general, whatever.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Perhaps telling specifically how to ho about it, what you like etc, in a playful but serious way, will help. Or some variation of communicating same.


I dont know what I like, is more that I want the fun of descovering. I tried, didnt work. But I'll try again NON STOP. Thank you.


----------



## uhtred

Perhaps he needs.... training. >

Seriously thought its really too bad that he isn't willing to do his best to do something you would enjoy 






moon7 said:


> I tried a lot, but he just doesnt. And I know if I stop and wait until he does it will escalate to that passive agressive area that kills the excitment.
> 
> But I will start trying again. I have nothing to lose, after all.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure he is kinda lame at it, because if I assume that if he were good he would feel some kind of pride about it.
> 
> I get a feeling he doesnt like my genital area at all. Mine or female in general, whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know what I like, is more that I want the fun of descovering. I tried, didnt work. But I'll try again NON STOP. Thank you.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Moon7, you should stop doing for him if he isn’t doing for you. That’s crap. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CharlieParker

3Xnocharm said:


> Moon7, you should stop doing for him if he isn’t doing for you. That’s crap.


Yup.

Tangential, no strings attached sex is not a thing in marriage, I expect sex in return. Doesn’t have to be right now, but I expect reciprocation, with equal enthusiasm, we’re married FFS. (Not calling for score keeping, just not one sidedness.)


----------



## moon7

3Xnocharm said:


> Moon7, you should stop doing for him if he isn’t doing for you. That’s crap.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 @CharlieParker @3Xnocharm

You think this could work?

I mean, nowdays i do it way less then i used to. But stoping altogether?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

moon7 said:


> @CharlieParker @3Xnocharm
> 
> You think this could work?
> 
> I mean, nowdays i do it way less then i used to. But stoping altogether?




It may, it may not. But from my perspective, it puts you on more equal ground, where you aren’t the only one doing the giving. How would it make him feel if you stopped? Has he expressed that this important to him? Why are his needs more important than yours? I would be resentful if I were in your shoes. Receiving oral isn’t even that important to me, but someone flat out refusing to give it, while expecting me to give it to them would kill my desire to be with them. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CharlieParker

moon7 said:


> @CharlieParker @3Xnocharm
> 
> You think this could work?
> 
> I mean, nowdays i do it way less then i used to. But stoping altogether?


Maybe, probably not. But it’s not about getting laid, at least initially. Love thyself first, the rest may (or may not) fall into place. That’s hard I know.

BTW how old are you two? And is the gender public knowledge?


----------



## moon7

CharlieParker said:


> BTW how old are you two? And is the gender public knowledge?


Me 30.
Him 34.
Gender yes and male.


----------



## Tex X

moon7 said:


> I'm pretty sure he is kinda lame at it, because if I assume that if he were good he would feel some kind of pride about it.


Buy a copy of 'She Comes First' by Ian Kerner and give it to him. If that doesn't improve his skills then he is just a lazy uninterested lover.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

moon7 said:


> @CharlieParker @3Xnocharm
> 
> You think this could work?
> 
> I mean, nowdays i do it way less then i used to. But stoping altogether?


Oh this will work. It will bring out any reasoning he has as to why he isn't enthusiastically doing it already, I'd be surprised if stopping didn't work.

Hang in there!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

moon7 said:


> I tried a lot, but he just doesnt. And I know if I stop and wait until he does it will escalate to that passive agressive area that kills the excitment.
> 
> But I will start trying again. I have nothing to lose, after all.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure he is kinda lame at it, because if I assume that if he were good he would feel some kind of pride about it.
> 
> I get a feeling he doesnt like my genital area at all. Mine or female in general, whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> *I dont know what I like, is more that I want the fun of descovering.* I tried, didnt work. But I'll try again NON STOP. Thank you.


This is the fun part. And there are articles and resources you could peruse to see what other women like, that may be helpful to you if desired. 

Like certain areas up and down the clitoral sheath, hood, sides, the clitoris itself, yet not always focused on those areas. Without going into too much graphic detail etc.


----------



## moon7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> moon7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @CharlieParker @3Xnocharm
> 
> You think this could work?
> 
> I mean, nowdays i do it way less then i used to. But stoping altogether?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh this will work. It will bring out any reasoning he has as to why he isn't enthusiastically doing it already, I'd be surprised if stopping didn't work.
> 
> Hang in there!
Click to expand...

I so hope it does!!! Im just an acomodating person and because of that he doesnt feel like trying to please me in general. I will feel real guilty trying this aproach haha


----------



## moon7

Tex X said:


> moon7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure he is kinda lame at it, because if I assume that if he were good he would feel some kind of pride about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Buy a copy of 'She Comes First' by Ian Kerner and give it to him. If that doesn't improve his skills then he is just a lazy uninterested lover.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I will look for it, but I can easily say he wont read it. Since we met Ive never seen him finish a book not related to our field (and we actually speak Portuguese).


----------



## Tex X

moon7 said:


> Thank you. I will look for it, but I can easily say he wont read it. Since we met Ive never seen him finish a book not related to our field (and we actually speak Portuguese).


You seem pretty fluent in English. If your husband is fluent in English I don't see what the problem is. It's not like it's a dry technical read either. Who doesn't like reading about sex? If he's not willing to put any effort into making your sex life better I don't know what to tell you. I hate to hear about guys like this.


----------



## badsanta

moon7 said:


> I'm pretty sure he is kinda lame at it, because if I assume that if he were good he would feel some kind of pride about it.
> 
> I get a feeling he doesnt like my genital area at all. Mine or female in general, whatever.


Regarding your husband giving you oral sex you also just mentioned:



moon7 said:


> Im just almost 9 month pregnant and feeling like conplaining of everything.


Many men feel uncomfortable with sex during pregnancy. If this is the case talk to your doctor and advise your husband accordingly about any safety and or health concerns. Otherwise he may err on the side of being too cautious as a way to protect you during the pregnancy.


----------



## southbound

Lila said:


> @southbound since you are the thread originator, did you get the answers you are looking for? I don't want to close a thread where there's a good discussion however I see a trend where your thread is devolving into insults and jokes.


Yes, I got my answer. I basically just wondered how common it was. Personally, I never considered it something that every woman felt obligated to do, so I wanted other’s experiences. Thanks.


----------



## Spicy

I asked my H if it was always a given in his relationships with women while dating. He said yes, never had a relationship without BJs.

My H has never given me oral sex and it is BIG sore spot with me. My XH was great at it, and I miss it. Current H had bad experiences with it, and he says it makes him gag.

I have started trying to withhold BJs as all my friends on here are advising @moon7. Biggest problem is I love his dong, and I love doing them...so it is really hard (pun acknowledged) to resist it. We have talked it to death, and we shall see where it ends up. I hope to hear if you get good results withholding Moon...update is, ok? I also bought him the book “She comes first”, but like you said I have NEVER seen him read a book since I’ve known him, and he didn’t read that one either, and that has hurt my feelings. 

In regard to the discussion of not knowing if you will like it without experiencing it before marriage...here is my personal experience with that. YMMV. XH and I were each other’s first, and we did discuss oral sex before marriage and were both game to try it, and both fortunately liked it, and had a blast learning how to do everything together. It was a much healthier sexual relationship for most of the marriage than my second marriage is...and my current H had tons of partners. It is the one piece I struggle with in our marriage, as all the regular posters know.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Spicy said:


> I asked my H if it was always a given in his relationships with women while dating. He said yes, never had a relationship without BJs.
> 
> My H has never given me oral sex and it is BIG sore spot with me. My XH was great at it, and I miss it. Current H had bad experiences with it, and he says it makes him gag.
> 
> I have started trying to withhold BJs as all my friends on here are advising @moon7. Biggest problem is I love his dong, and I love doing them...so it is really hard (pun acknowledged) to resist it. We have talked it to death, and we shall see where it ends up. I hope to hear if you get good results withholding Moon...update is, ok? I also bought him the book “She comes first”, but like you said I have NEVER seen him read a book since I’ve known him, and he didn’t read that one either, and that has hurt my feelings.
> 
> In regard to the discussion of not knowing if you will like it without experiencing it before marriage...here is my personal experience with that. YMMV. XH and I were each other’s first, and we did discuss oral sex before marriage and were both game to try it, and both fortunately liked it, and had a blast learning how to do everything together. It was a much healthier sexual relationship for most of the marriage than my second marriage is...and my current H had tons of partners. It is the one piece I struggle with in our marriage, as all the regular posters know.


???????

So he thinks it's a given that women should and will blow men..... but he can't be troubled to eat out?!?!?

And you indulge that?

There's a world full of good men who would love to get... and love to give. This kind of injustice in life is what drives so many to believe in an afterlife.


----------



## BioFury

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> ???????
> 
> So he thinks it's a given that women should and will blow men..... but he can't be troubled to eat out?!?!?
> 
> And you indulge that?
> 
> There's a world full of good men who would love to get... and love to give. This kind of injustice in life is what drives so many to believe in an afterlife.


QFT.

@Spicy, you need to drop the hammer on this guy!

"Your ___y can be sicky, till my _____ gets a licky"

Sorry, I was inspired by Curse of Milhaven's rhymes. Don't mind me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Spicy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked my H if it was always a given in his relationships with women while dating. He said yes, never had a relationship without BJs.
> 
> My H has never given me oral sex and it is BIG sore spot with me. My XH was great at it, and I miss it. Current H had bad experiences with it, and he says it makes him gag.
> 
> I have started trying to withhold BJs as all my friends on here are advising @moon7. Biggest problem is I love his dong, and I love doing them...so it is really hard (pun acknowledged) to resist it. We have talked it to death, and we shall see where it ends up. I hope to hear if you get good results withholding Moon...update is, ok? I also bought him the book “She comes first”, but like you said I have NEVER seen him read a book since I’ve known him, and he didn’t read that one either, and that has hurt my feelings.
> 
> In regard to the discussion of not knowing if you will like it without experiencing it before marriage...here is my personal experience with that. YMMV. XH and I were each other’s first, and we did discuss oral sex before marriage and were both game to try it, and both fortunately liked it, and had a blast learning how to do everything together. It was a much healthier sexual relationship for most of the marriage than my second marriage is...and my current H had tons of partners. It is the one piece I struggle with in our marriage, as all the regular posters know.
> 
> 
> 
> ???????
> 
> So he thinks it's a given that women should and will blow men..... but he can't be troubled to eat out?!?!?
> 
> And you indulge that?
> 
> There's a world full of good men who would love to get... and love to give. This kind of injustice in life is what drives so many to believe in an afterlife.
Click to expand...

But isn’t her situation a lot like yours? She is staying because she loves him. And because the rest of their marriage is great for them both.

She’s not getting all she wants sexually, but the other parts of their marriage are keeping her in love with him. So she sacrifices something in order to keep something better.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Spicy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked my H if it was always a given in his relationships with women while dating. He said yes, never had a relationship without BJs.
> 
> My H has never given me oral sex and it is BIG sore spot with me. My XH was great at it, and I miss it. Current H had bad experiences with it, and he says it makes him gag.
> 
> I have started trying to withhold BJs as all my friends on here are advising @moon7. Biggest problem is I love his dong, and I love doing them...so it is really hard (pun acknowledged) to resist it. We have talked it to death, and we shall see where it ends up. I hope to hear if you get good results withholding Moon...update is, ok? I also bought him the book “She comes first”, but like you said I have NEVER seen him read a book since I’ve known him, and he didn’t read that one either, and that has hurt my feelings.
> 
> In regard to the discussion of not knowing if you will like it without experiencing it before marriage...here is my personal experience with that. YMMV. XH and I were each other’s first, and we did discuss oral sex before marriage and were both game to try it, and both fortunately liked it, and had a blast learning how to do everything together. It was a much healthier sexual relationship for most of the marriage than my second marriage is...and my current H had tons of partners. It is the one piece I struggle with in our marriage, as all the regular posters know.
> 
> 
> 
> ???????
> 
> So he thinks it's a given that women should and will blow men..... but he can't be troubled to eat out?!?!?
> 
> And you indulge that?
> 
> There's a world full of good men who would love to get... and love to give. This kind of injustice in life is what drives so many to believe in an afterlife.
Click to expand...

Also, can you expand on the afterlife comment?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> But isn’t her situation a lot like yours? She is staying because she loves him. And because the rest of their marriage is great for them both.
> 
> She’s not getting all she wants sexually, but the other parts of their marriage are keeping her in love with him. So she sacrifices something in order to keep something better.


Oh, yeah, I see the parallel, but it breaks down pretty fast when you look deeper. My wife isn't keen on receiving oral, so she doesn't have a firsthand understanding of why it would be important to someone else. It's one thing to deny something you have no core understanding of the importance of and something else entirely to deny somthing you know full well _and expect for yourself_. This guy obviously knows better. 

And to be clear, I wasn't saying she shouldn't stay with him, just pointing out the injustice of the situation. Whether that injustice is tolerable in light of other thing is entirely up to Spicy. And I really wasn't even talking about the specific injustice that exists within that particular marriage, but rather the broader injustice that exists by virtue of all the giving partners who don't get.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> Also, can you expand on the afterlife comment?


I was just referencing the phenomenon that many people find solace the belief in a better afterlife because there is no justice in this world. The comment was mostly tongue in cheek and a deliberate exaggeration of the gravity of the situation.

From "Freewill" by Rush:
_Kicked in the face
You can pray for place
In haven's unearthly estate._


----------



## DieCastRN

Marduk said:


> Even 20 years ago when I was dating, no enthusiastic BJs meant that we didn’t date.
> 
> Getting into a relationship with someone closed sexually is a slow death. Been there, done that.


I cannot agree with this more. My ex and I divorced because of sexual incompatibility. Even when she worked on frequency, it got to the point where it was basically the same each time, even the position in which we kissed. Oral sex was very infrequent, never to completion, and very unenthusiastic. It's not that she didn't try, it's that she didn't try hard enough. She was a lazy lover and lazy in other aspects of our marriage as well (affection, non-sexual touch, intellectual compatibility, etc...). But the nail in the coffin was the terrible sex life we had. I stayed in that marriage longer than I really should have.


----------



## Wolf1974

It’s a given for my relationship. I only ever met one woman who was against it. She claimed that it was a texture issue and that the head of the penis was mushroom like and giving BJs brought on an instant gag reflex. Course she always wanted me to go down on her lol. Needless to say that didn’t last long. 

I also know of a guy who hates bjs. Maybe I should have tried to hook them up??


----------



## Spicy

*Re: Is oral a given for most?l*

@Rocky Mountain Yeti @Faithful Wife  @BioFury

Boys, I share your annoyance...I will say, from knowing my H, I highly doubt he ever asked for a BJ, but I think they were just given. He’s a handsome guy, and so nice that it is easy to want to “please” him. I think he checks _most_ of the boxes women in my age group find appealing. 

That being said, I must say, I have definitely wondered how much of him not being willing to go down (among other General lack of sexual skills) affected him keeping a good woman. He says most of the girls he dated told him they didn’t like sex. I think it might mean a lot of them didn’t like sex _with him_.

FW nailed it for me in her post. I’m madly in love with him, and this is the thing I settled on. Even if I could never have sex again, I still want to be with him every second, and I love the rest of our life. I’m not perfect, and neither is he. Overall we are really great together though.


----------



## BioFury

*Re: Is oral a given for most?l*



Spicy said:


> Boys, I share your annoyance...I will say, from knowing my H, I highly doubt he ever asked for a BJ, but I think they were just given. He’s a handsome guy, and so nice that it is easy to want to “please” him. I think he checks _most_ of the boxes women in my age group find appealing.
> 
> That being said, I must say, I have definitely wondered how much of him not being willing to go down (among other General lack of sexual skills) affected him keeping a good woman. He says most of the girls he dated told him they didn’t like sex. I think it might mean a lot of them didn’t like sex _with him_.
> 
> FW nailed it for me in her post. I’m madly in love with him, and this is the thing I settled on. Even if I could never have sex again, I still want to be with him every second, and I love the rest of our life. I’m not perfect, and neither is he. Overall we are really great together though.


Right on, I get that. But, if the situation can be improved, why not go for it?

It sounds like he had a bad experience once, with particular woman, and he's just never put in the effort to get over it. So with a little prodding, encouragement, lack of blowjobs, and therapy, he might come around :grin2:


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

*Re: Is oral a given for most?l*



Spicy said:


> @Rocky Mountain Yeti
> @Faithful Wife
> @BioFury
> 
> Boys, I share your annoyance...I will say, from knowing my H, I highly doubt he ever asked for a BJ, but I think they were just given. He’s a handsome guy, and so nice that it is easy to want to “please” him. I think he checks _most_ of the boxes women in my age group find appealing.
> 
> That being said, I must say, I have definitely wondered how much of him not being willing to go down (among other General lack of sexual skills) affected him keeping a good woman. He says most of the girls he dated told him they didn’t like sex. I think it might mean a lot of them didn’t like sex _with him_.
> 
> FW nailed it for me in her post. I’m madly in love with him, and this is the thing I settled on. Even if I could never have sex again, I still want to be with him every second, and I love the rest of our life. I’m not perfect, and neither is he. Overall we are really great together though.


Oh, to have that kind of love....

....sigh....


----------



## CharlieParker

*Re: Is oral a given for most?l*



Spicy said:


> Even if I could never have sex again, I still want to be with him every second, and I love the rest of our life. I’m not perfect, and neither is he. Overall we are really great together though.


Define sex. We were close to taking PiV off the menu for physical reasons. I could do that. Not having sex in broader sense or at least naked time wouldn’t work for me/us. 

We were always a bit “lazy” when the PiV was good/reliable, we didn’t often bother with anything else. Ever since she stopped being able to O from PiV the oral on her has gone up. As the PiV has been reduced (it’s still on the menu as a special) the number of BJs has gone up.


----------



## MartinBeck

A serious blowjob is both a signal of attraction and a signal of willingness to make an effort. 

A refusal is a signal of the inverse. Ignore this at your peril. 

It’s strong indication of attraction. It’s well documented that feelings of disgust go away when aroused - meeting if you’re feeling horny and attracted to your partner, a penis or semen or vaginal fluids are gong to not be disgusting.

An unwillingness to go down is a sign they’re likely just not that attracted to you.
It’s also a marker for conservative sexual attitudes, laziness, anxiety, etc., etc, all of which are reasons to move along when evaluating a new partner. 

Fundamentally, why would you want to invest time and energy into a new relationship where you’ve been given a clear sign they are just not that into you? 

And even if maybe they’re not super into it, but if you’re asking and so they know it’s important to you, so then... why couldn’t they just do it, right? 

Why would you want to invest in someone who won’t got out of their comfort zone and make an effort at something that’s important to you? 

People who can’t get out of their comfort zone and make a effort? Next!


----------



## heartsbeating

Lila said:


> I hadn't thought about it like this but I think you've hit on an important point. I wonder how many people (men or women) would enjoy giving oral sex if their partner was just "meh" about it.


It's more than the act itself, it's also the playfulness between us. If my husband was 'meh' about receiving oral (...appropriate pause to consider this; it's really hard to imagine), then yeah, it would affect my enjoyment of giving to him. I'd rather take the cues and focus on something that was, in a sense, _replenishing_ for him and mutually connecting.


----------



## heartsbeating

Wolf1974 said:


> It’s a given for my relationship. I only ever met one woman who was against it. She claimed that it was a texture issue and that the head of the penis was mushroom like and giving BJs brought on an instant gag reflex. Course she always wanted me to go down on her lol. Needless to say that didn’t last long.


Oh dear... the mention of mushrooms... with Southbound asking if this was common, well, I thought swallowing would be more common among my peers. Turns out, not so much. Out to dinner with friends some time ago, I ordered grilled mushrooms. One friend shuddered at the thought/taste of mushrooms, sharing what they remind her of and how she wouldn't go there. Which meant the conversation jovially spiraled to that topic. With immaturity and laughter, another friend and I licked our lips and enjoyed those grilled mushrooms.


----------



## heartsbeating

Lila said:


> No one has come out and told me "sorry, no swallowing no dating" but then again maybe that's what they were thinking when they chose not to see me again after discussing boundaries.
> 
> I do know men for whom this is VERY important. *They will willingly overlook huge (IMO massive) red flags* to have a women who enjoys giving BJs, will gurgle their jizz, and swallow it like melted marshmallow. To each their own.


You have a point... I rarely/don't cook. 

I don't know about this gurgling business! And swallowing isn't every time; depends on the vibe. Towards the beginning of this thread were a few back-and-forth about what we look for, well, even though Batman and I met young, he initiated going down on me after a short time of dating. We were sharing in oral sex in various incarnations before we'd had intercourse. And for me, it's a mind-blowing pleasure. My reality is that I could not be with a man who was unwilling (but able) to share in this with me as part of our sexuality.


----------



## uhtred

I think there is a lot of variation in what men like for oral. Some don't like it at all. Some like getting a BJ, don't care where they finish. Others have a thing for finishing on her face or in her mouth. Some care about swallowing. 

Just various preferences - which may be quite strong. Probably helpful to know what a particular partner likes. 

Similarly I assume women like different things as well. I know my wife enjoys oral early on, but usually doesn't want me to give her an O that way.


----------



## JustTheWife

I haven't read all of the responses but I thought the OP was interesting - I mean the moment you learned that "you'll be doing this." Those words really struck me because that's kind of how it felt for me. I mean knew what it was before I did it but I guess I didn't really understand how important it is to guys. And, well, that's it's just something that you're expected to do. In the back seat - head pushed down. Kind of gross but I just thought that's what you were supposed to be doing for guys. It was like all guys just expected me to do it. No big deal, just got used to doing it. 

My husband does not want it but I'd like to do it for him.


----------



## Diana7

MartinBeck said:


> A serious blowjob is both a signal of attraction and a signal of willingness to make an effort.
> 
> A refusal is a signal of the inverse. Ignore this at your peril.
> 
> It’s strong indication of attraction. It’s well documented that feelings of disgust go away when aroused - meeting if you’re feeling horny and attracted to your partner, a penis or semen or vaginal fluids are gong to not be disgusting.
> 
> An unwillingness to go down is a sign they’re likely just not that attracted to you.
> It’s also a marker for conservative sexual attitudes, laziness, anxiety, etc., etc, all of which are reasons to move along when evaluating a new partner.
> 
> Fundamentally, why would you want to invest time and energy into a new relationship where you’ve been given a clear sign they are just not that into you?
> 
> And even if maybe they’re not super into it, but if you’re asking and so they know it’s important to you, so then... why couldn’t they just do it, right?
> 
> Why would you want to invest in someone who won’t got out of their comfort zone and make an effort at something that’s important to you?
> 
> People who can’t get out of their comfort zone and make a effort? Next!


I dont see it as 'not making an effort' or that you are 'not attracted to them enough' if there are things that you know that are not for you. I am sure that many of us have things that we wouldn't do in sex that some others think are ok. 
After all you could relate what you said to anything. How about a partner who wants to half strangle you during sex, or bring another person into your sex life. If you say no are you then not 'making an effort' or 'not that attracted to them enough?' Where do you draw the line? 

For example for both my husband and I anal sex is a total no no. It has nothing to do with not being attracted enough to each other or that we are not prepared to make an effort. Its just a place that we won't go. We all must be able to say no to things that we are very uncomfortable with without being pressured in anyway. 

If I wanted something and my husband didn't, I really couldn't care less and I wouldn't bring it up again. There are plenty of other things we can do and its not all about me anyway, its about loving and respecting your partner and compromise.


----------



## Girl_power

Diana7 said:


> I dont see it as 'not making an effort' or that you are 'not attracted to them enough' if there are things that you know that are not for you. I am sure that many of us have things that we wouldn't do in sex that some others think are ok.
> 
> After all you could relate what you said to anything. How about a partner who wants to half strangle you during sex, or bring another person into your sex life. If you say no are you then not 'making an effort' or 'not that attracted to them enough?' Where do you draw the line?
> 
> 
> 
> For example for both my husband and I anal sex is a total no no. It has nothing to do with not being attracted enough to each other or that we are not prepared to make an effort. Its just a place that we won't go. We all must be able to say no to things that we are very uncomfortable with without being pressured in anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> If I wanted something and my husband didn't, I really couldn't care less and I wouldn't bring it up again. There are plenty of other things we can do and its not all about me anyway, its about loving and respecting your partner and compromise.



I do agree with you but it is a little sad when you want certain things and your partner refuses. Especially if what you want is mainstream and popular, and If you had it before and loved it.


----------



## minimalME

Although I understand what you're saying, I do have a problem with this.

My private sex life does not need to reflect what's mainstream and popular. That that's even a consideration is offensive. (And to clarify - I don't find your post offensive - just the idea of having to conform to what others view as normal and expected.)

My sex life is to be sorted out between God, me and my significant other. NOT the community.

It's one of the many problems associated with pornography and promiscuous societies.



Girl_power said:


> I do agree with you but it is a little sad when you want certain things and your partner refuses. Especially if what you want is mainstream and popular, and If you had it before and loved it.


----------



## Girl_power

minimalME said:


> Although I understand what you're saying, I do have a problem with this.
> 
> 
> 
> My private sex life does not need to reflect what's mainstream and popular. That that's even a consideration is offensive. (And to clarify - I don't find your post offensive - just the idea of having to conform to what others view as normal and expected.)
> 
> 
> 
> My sex life is to be sorted out between God, me and my significant other. NOT the community.
> 
> 
> 
> It's one of the many problems associated with pornography and promiscuous societies.




I don’t disagree with you. No one can tell me what to do with my body except me. I’m not trying to make you feel bad. I’m speaking of the point of view of wanting something I love from my significant other and them saying no. And I mean that from a hug, a kiss, a massage, or oral sex. The act of wanting and being shut down is never pleasant. And the want never goes away.


----------



## Diana7

Girl_power said:


> I do agree with you but it is a little sad when you want certain things and your partner refuses. Especially if what you want is mainstream and popular, and If you had it before and loved it.


To be honest I am not at all worried what is considered mainstream and popular. Porn is mainstream and apparently popular, but for us its total no no. Many things that people want now has come from porn use. 

I have no issues if my husband said no to something because I would know that there would be a good reason for him to say that, and I respect him enough not to pressure him. The same for me, if I said no, he wouldn't pressure me. Marriage should be far more important than one thing that one may want in sex that the other doesn't. If someone ends a relationship just for that one thing, then they are not worth having in my opinion.


----------



## Diana7

Girl_power said:


> I don’t disagree with you. No one can tell me what to do with my body except me. I’m not trying to make you feel bad. I’m speaking of the point of view of wanting something I love from my significant other and them saying no. And I mean that from a hug, a kiss, a massage, or oral sex. The act of wanting and being shut down is never pleasant. And the want never goes away.



If your spouse wont even give you a hug or kiss then that probably shows all is not well in the marriage. However when you get to things like oral sex, anal sex, S & M, bondage, etc, its far more a question of what sits right with us as individuals and what doesn't. I know that for me anal sex for example is something I would never do for many reasons, and that's not going to change. I know its not right for me or us.


----------



## Personal

@Diana7 I hope you get oral sex, plus hugs and kisses from your husband. Likewise I also hope that your husband gets the same from you.


----------



## aquarius1

So, back to your original question. Is oral a given for most?

YES.

The end.

(Mic drop)


----------



## Diana7

Personal said:


> @Diana7 I hope you get oral sex, plus hugs and kisses from your husband. Likewise I also hope that your husband gets the same from you.


Neither has ever said no to anything the other asked for, but we also tend to do our own thing and not go by what others think is 'normal' or 'expected'. :grin2:


----------



## Diana7

aquarius1 said:


> So, back to your original question. Is oral a given for most?
> 
> YES.
> 
> The end.
> 
> (Mic drop)


OF course you or I have no way of knowing that for sure.


----------



## aquarius1

Diana7 said:


> OF course you or I have no way of knowing that for sure.


Um. it was supposed to be funny. :wink2: And the post said "most" not "all"


----------



## CharlieParker

Diana7 said:


> Neither has ever said no to anything the other asked for


And that’s a good thing. :smile2:


----------



## MartinBeck

Diana7 said:


> I dont see it as 'not making an effort' or that you are 'not attracted to them enough' if there are things that you know that are not for you. I am sure that many of us have things that we wouldn't do in sex that some others think are ok.
> 
> After all you could relate what you said to anything. How about a partner who wants to half strangle you during sex, or bring another person into your sex life. If you say no are you then not 'making an effort' or 'not that attracted to them enough?' Where do you draw the line?
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> If I wanted something and my husband didn't, I really couldn't care less and I wouldn't bring it up again. There are plenty of other things we can do and its not all about me anyway, its about loving and respecting your partner and compromise.




If I felt that some act or attitude from a prospective partner was important for me to be happy and in a successful long-term relationship with them, and there was a hesitancy and an unwillingness demonstrated, then yeah I’m going to next them.

I definitely believe that a woman who early in a relationship demonstrates a dislike of and refusal to perform a blowjob is signaling a lack of attraction and likely a high level of general anxiety, conservative religious beliefs, etc, and so is good leading indicator of other future problems around sex in the relationship.


----------



## Mr.Married

Not much to add to these 16 pages worth except that it is a normal thing for us .....


----------



## EllisRedding

Didn't read all the responses but my answer to the OPs question is most definitely yes. Always been a part of the routine with my Wife and I. We have been doing some more research based on stuff we have read / listened to from Susan Bratton (Expanded orgasms, etc...) and implemented some new techniques which have been well received


----------



## ShawnDmi

By me every couple should practice Bj, it is connecting you somehow, and those that don't do because it is gross, you never tried and say that. I am happy in my marriage, we do that very often and we are happy.


----------



## Diana7

ShawnDmi said:


> By me every couple should practice Bj, it is connecting you somehow, and those that don't do because it is gross, you never tried and say that. I am happy in my marriage, we do that very often and we are happy.


I am interested that you think that every couple must do as you do or they wont be happy. Its sex itself that connects us, not any one specific thing. 
How do you know that people haven't tried? People are allowed to not like something surely?


----------



## thefam

I didn't read that many responses but wanted to add my experience. My husband was my first everything. For the first several years of our marriage there were no BJs. Surprisingly my H did not press the issue. But it was actually TAM that made me want to try it! Don't laugh...I read articles, watched a video or 2 (couldn't really stomach those) and bought cucumbers to practice. 

Before that we had a very active but rather vanilla sex life. Adding BJs awoke my freaky side and we haven't looked back. I still think its amazing that my usually aggressive and take-charge hubby was willing to wait until I "evolved". LOL


----------



## RebuildingMe

thefam said:


> I didn't read that many responses but wanted to add my experience. My husband was my first everything. For the first several years of our marriage there were no BJs. Surprisingly my H did not press the issue. But it was actually TAM that made me want to try it! Don't laugh...I read articles, watched a video or 2 (couldn't really stomach those) and bought cucumbers to practice.
> 
> Before that we had a very active but rather vanilla sex life. Adding BJs awoke my freaky side and we haven't looked back. I still think its amazing that my usually aggressive and take-charge hubby was willing to wait until I "evolved". LOL


Great story fam! Good to know that people are learning things from TAM and not just plowing ahead with the same "oral sex is not important to my husband and I, therefore I'm not doing it".


----------



## Mr.Married

A wife with dentures will be one of the opportunities of the golden years ...... can't wait !!!


----------



## notmyjamie

Mr.Married said:


> A wife with dentures will be one of the opportunities of the golden years ...... can't wait !!!


You know why women have teeth, right? So men will understand she’s always gonna be in charge >


----------



## Mr.Married

notmyjamie said:


> You know why women have teeth, right? So men will understand she’s always gonna be in charge >


Ya know what you tell a woman with two black eyes ? Nothing ....ya already told her twice !!!!


Obviously the above is only a joke ...... except with redheads ......


----------



## CharlieParker

Mr.Married said:


> A wife with dentures will be one of the opportunities of the golden years ...... can't wait !!!


BTDT. Wife had to wear dentures before getting full implants. It sucked, and not it a good way. She couldn't get any traction.


----------



## Diana7

RebuildingMe said:


> Great story fam! Good to know that people are learning things from TAM and not just plowing ahead with the same "oral sex is not important to my husband and I, therefore I'm not doing it".


who has said that?
If they have then why not believe them? Not every man or women likes oral believe it or not.


----------



## Mr.Married

Diana7 said:


> RebuildingMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great story fam! Good to know that people are learning things from TAM and not just plowing ahead with the same "oral sex is not important to my husband and I, therefore I'm not doing it".
> 
> 
> 
> who has said that?
> If they have then why not believe them? Not every man or women likes oral believe it or not.
Click to expand...

I guess if you can make some men believe there are 40 virgins waiting for them in the afterlife then you can also make some people believe oral sex doesn’t feel nice.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Diana7 said:


> Not every man or women likes oral believe it or not.


I am sure there are some out there that don't. I do think there are probably more women uncomfortable with the idea of someone performing oral on them than there are men. I guess I base that on the number of posts over the years in the sex in marriage forum. Actually, I can honestly say I haven't met a single man that doesn't like receiving oral. But quite a few men that don't like giving! Which to me is selfish.


----------



## CharlieParker

ReformedHubby said:


> I do think there are probably more women uncomfortable with the idea of someone performing oral on them than there are men.


For our first 15 years my wife was opposed (she had some guys that were really bad at it). I’m into it but everything else was good so no biggie. I still recall the afternoon in Munich where she realized she does like it. As we’ve got older I’m glad we’ve expanded the repertoire.


----------



## bkyln309

ReformedHubby said:


> I am sure there are some out there that don't. I do think there are probably more women uncomfortable with the idea of someone performing oral on them than there are men. I guess I base that on the number of posts over the years in the sex in marriage forum. Actually, I can honestly say I haven't met a single man that doesn't like receiving oral. But quite a few men that don't like giving! Which to me is selfish.


I said it before, my ex boyfriend didnt like oral. First man I knew that always went soft during oral. It just isnt his preference. Other than that, he was fantastic. Though I did miss the excitement of performing oral on him.


----------



## Diana7

Mr.Married said:


> I guess if you can make some men believe there are 40 virgins waiting for them in the afterlife then you can also make some people believe oral sex doesn’t feel nice.




Its not about 'making' people believe 'oral sex isn't nice', its about some actually preferring other things. About some actually not liking oral. I find it really weird that many here seem to think that everyone must like and do what they like and do. 
Seems pretty odd to me. :surprise:


----------



## Diana7

bkyln309 said:


> I said it before, my ex boyfriend didnt like oral. First man I knew that always went soft during oral. It just isnt his preference. Other than that, he was fantastic. Though I did miss the excitement of performing oral on him.


Like your ex boyfriend, there are men and women who don't like oral and prefer other things, that seems to be a big sin here for some reason. :|


----------



## Diana7

ReformedHubby said:


> I am sure there are some out there that don't. I do think there are probably more women uncomfortable with the idea of someone performing oral on them than there are men. I guess I base that on the number of posts over the years in the sex in marriage forum. Actually, I can honestly say I haven't met a single man that doesn't like receiving oral. But quite a few men that don't like giving! Which to me is selfish.


I know men who don't, and I suspect that not all men are honest about this anyway. Going by this thread, some may feel 
there is something wrong with them if they don't like it, there isn't of course, but they may stay quiet because they feel there is.


----------



## Mr.Married

Diana7 said:


> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess if you can make some men believe there are 40 virgins waiting for them in the afterlife then you can also make some people believe oral sex doesn’t feel nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not about 'making' people believe 'oral sex isn't nice', its about some actually preferring other things. About some actually not liking oral. I find it really weird that many here seem to think that everyone must like and do what they like and do.
> Seems pretty odd to me. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png" border="0" alt="" title="EEK! Surprise!" ></a>
Click to expand...

My sarcasm skills are in the dumpster lately.....

Ya know I just can’t help picking on you. 🙂


----------



## lessthennone

Diana7 said:


> Like your ex boyfriend, there are men and women who don't like oral and prefer other things, that seems to be a big sin here for some reason. :|


There are certainly men who don't like oral sex. I've yet to meet one, but I'm sure they are out there. I'll bet it's around 99% in favor, but there is the 1%. 

People here aren't considering it a sin, but it's uncommon. So when you speak to people you know little about on a random internet forum, you tend to generalize. I think guys enjoying BJ's is a fairly safe assumption. 

I am curious... what made your husband not like oral? You made a strong point that it was both of your choices. How did you two come to that conclusion?


----------



## Lila

bkyln309 said:


> I said it before, my ex boyfriend didnt like oral. First man I knew that always went soft during oral. It just isnt his preference. Other than that, he was fantastic. Though I did miss the excitement of performing oral on him.


My last sexual partner didn't hate it but it was not his favorite. He really only enjoyed it when he was super horny otherwise he'd go soft. The good news is I didn't have to do much to get him excited other ways.


----------



## notmyjamie

Mr.Married said:


> Ya know what you tell a woman with two black eyes ? Nothing ....ya already told her twice !!!!
> 
> 
> Obviously the above is only a joke ...... except with redheads ......


LOL...I’d love to see a guy try that on this redhead!!! The stereotype exists for a reason...just sayin!! :grin2:


----------



## Mr.Married

lessthennone said:


> I am curious... what made your husband not like oral? You made a strong point that it was both of your choices. How did you two come to that conclusion?



I’m betting that most of the time the woman comes to the conclusion for him !!!


Disclaimer: not directed directly at Diane7


----------



## Lila

Mr.Married said:


> lessthennone said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious... what made your husband not like oral? You made a strong point that it was both of your choices. How did you two come to that conclusion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m betting that most of the time the woman comes to the conclusion for him !!!
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: not directed directly at Diane7
Click to expand...

In my case, his **** made the conclusion for him.


----------



## lessthennone

Lila said:


> In my case, his **** made the conclusion for him.


I can accept that. But you both tried it before you came to that conclusion. 

If I were to say my wife and I agreed we didn't like lobster, it implies we both tried lobster and didn't like it.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I don't discount those that have met men that don't like receiving oral or are indifferent to it. I think most men prefer PIV to it, and as long as that is on the menu they won't complain. With that said I think maybe we are focusing on the ridiculously small percentage of men that don't like it a bit too much. I mean as black dude I am not pro Klan, but...I am fairly certain I could find another black guy somewhere that is an avid Klan supporter. But....I wouldn't use him as an example to say that black people are fine with the Klan :rofl:. Generally speaking most men like blow jobs; if nothing else at least as part of foreplay. If they don't like them I don't think its weird, to each their own, but I don't think men like that are common at all. 

Regarding pressure to like something or at least say they do when asked I do agree that men do feel that sometimes too. As far as anal sex goes I can take it or leave it, and I do know other guys that it isn't really their favorite either.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Diana7 said:


> who has said that?
> If they have then why not believe them? Not every man or women likes oral believe it or not.


My post wasn't specifically directed towards you, but you seem to be defending your 'no oral in my house' position, so I'll bite. If you husband asked for a BJ to completion, would you give him one? Second question, did your Ex like oral, or was that a no go also? Honest answers only...If you tell me to go F myself, that's cool also.


----------



## Lila

ReformedHubby said:


> Generally speaking most men like blow jobs; if nothing else at least as part of foreplay. If they don't like them I don't think its weird, to each their own, but I don't think men like that are common at all.


I agree with you the BJ's for foreplay but I dont think there is a larger percentage of men than you think who enjoys BJ's to completion. They prefer face ****ing which in my book is completely different. My ex husband could not orgasm from just a BJ. He had to face ****. If he couldn't do that, he passed on the bj.


----------



## lessthennone

Lila said:


> I agree with you the BJ's for foreplay but I dont think there is a larger percentage of men than you think who enjoys BJ's to completion. They prefer face ****ing which in my book is completely different. My ex husband could not orgasm from just a BJ. He had to face ****. If he couldn't do that, he passed on the bj.


I've tended to not finish from a BJ alone. I would need hand help. That said, I've had too much respect for my partners to face **** them. I don't think I'd be compatible with someone who enjoyed being demeaned. 

Or in other words... "There will be no face ****ing in my house."


----------



## ReformedHubby

Lila said:


> I agree with you the BJ's for foreplay but I dont think there is a larger percentage of men than you think who enjoys BJ's to completion. They prefer face ****ing which in my book is completely different. My ex husband could not orgasm from just a BJ. He had to face ****. If he couldn't do that, he passed on the bj.


:scratchhead: I thought they were different variations of the same thing, although one is arguably more aggressive than the other, with that said it doesn't have to be.


----------



## Lila

ReformedHubby said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you the BJ's for foreplay but I dont think there is a larger percentage of men than you think who enjoys BJ's to completion. They prefer face ****ing which in my book is completely different. My ex husband could not orgasm from just a BJ. He had to face ****. If he couldn't do that, he passed on the bj.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they were different variations of the same thing, although one is arguably more aggressive than the other, with that said it doesn't have to be.
Click to expand...

That's true, but you can understand why some women might not want to have their faces ****ed. Having been married to someone who needed that, if a guy can't enjoy a regular ol' gentle bj, then he's not going to getting one from me.


----------



## Mr.Married

> That's true, but you can understand why some women might not want to have their faces ****ed. Having been married to someone who needed that, if a guy can't enjoy a regular ol' gentle bj, then he's not going to getting one from me.


I have suddenly developed a little empathy for the BJ non-givers.

I thought that stuff was only in porn

Sounds like a really rough job ....pun intended

I understand how a little pain/pleasure/ discomfort type thing can work out nice but it never crossed my mind to get that rough.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Mr.Married said:


> I thought that stuff was only in porn
> 
> Sounds like a really rough job ....pun intended
> 
> I understand how a little pain/pleasure/ discomfort type thing can work out nice but it never crossed my mind to get that rough.


Yeah...believe it or not there are quite a few people regardless of gender or even sexual orientation that like it really rough. Some also really like being degraded. Dominatrixes do a lot of business for a reason. Its something people want. When I was younger its not something I was exposed to, but as I got older and I met women that knew what they wanted sexually, I was taken aback by some of the things they were turned on by. I won't even repeat in here some of those things. I will just say that some people truly have no limits.


----------



## Lila

Mr.Married said:


> That's true, but you can understand why some women might not want to have their faces ****ed. Having been married to someone who needed that, if a guy can't enjoy a regular ol' gentle bj, then he's not going to getting one from me.
> 
> 
> 
> I have suddenly developed a little empathy for the BJ non-givers.
> 
> I thought that stuff was only in porn
> 
> Sounds like a really rough job ....pun intended
> 
> I understand how a little pain/pleasure/ discomfort type thing can work out nice but it never crossed my mind to get that rough.
Click to expand...

Everybody is different. Some men like a lot of hands with just a touch of mouth. Some like all mouth and a touch of hands. Some like their testicles or butts or both fondled during the bj. Some like gentle sucking. Others have to have it rough. 

My ex husband didn't like me to use my hands and it had to be fast and hard continuously. Even if it was for "only" five minutes....it was not pleasant for me. Interestingly enough, he didn't start off that way but the older he got, the more stimulus he needed.


----------



## CharlieParker

Lila said:


> My ex husband didn't like me to use my hands and it had to be fast and hard continuously. Even if it was for "only" five minutes....it was not pleasant for me. Interestingly enough, he didn't start off that way but the older he got, the more stimulus he needed.


Sounds pretty awful. Did he move or hold your head? My wife’s hard no from always is no touching her head.


----------



## Lila

CharlieParker said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> My ex husband didn't like me to use my hands and it had to be fast and hard continuously. Even if it was for "only" five minutes....it was not pleasant for me. Interestingly enough, he didn't start off that way but the older he got, the more stimulus he needed.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds pretty awful. Did he move or hold your head? My wife’s hard no from always is no touching her head.
Click to expand...

I didn't let him move my head (I too have a hard no on that) but he did verbally tell me what he wanted. It wasn't that he was choking me or anything (he is on the smaller side of average) but the inside of my lips would get torn up from rubbing against my teeth.


----------



## redwingpentagon

Not a given wife used to do oral on me not often but i cant remember the last time we did it. Funny thing i lately Ive been thinking we both need to give oral a shot again lol it can be fun.


----------



## CharlieParker

redwingpentagon said:


> Not a given wife used to do oral on me not often but i cant remember the last time we did it. Funny thing i lately Ive been thinking we both need to give oral a shot again lol it can be fun.


* Wonders * with a username name like that...

And sigh, winter is coming, oral on her decreases, something about it being cold (I respect that but we do have central heat, just sayin').


----------



## Mr.Married

CharlieParker said:


> * Wonders * with a username name like that...
> 
> And sigh, winter is coming, oral on her decreases, something about it being cold (I respect that but we do have central heat, just sayin').


Ya have to light the right "fireplace" >

I read somewhere that woman have better O's if they have socks on. Anything is worth a try !!!


----------



## notmyjamie

Mr.Married said:


> Ya have to light the right "fireplace" >
> 
> I read somewhere that woman have better O's if they have socks on. Anything is worth a try !!!


I'd imagine it's because the feet stay warm and so there is less of a need for blood flow to the feet thereby freeing the blood to flow to other places. This is probably true of men too.


----------



## redwingpentagon

CharlieParker said:


> * Wonders * with a username name like that...
> 
> And sigh, winter is coming, oral on her decreases, something about it being cold (I respect that but we do have central heat, just sayin').


User name is random generation from a computer lol. 
Plus like i said we are both not really into oral.


----------



## redwingpentagon

Still no oral with us in ages . Funny how she not into it. She says it’s something she was in to when she was younger . I have not done oral on her for years either more to do with her giving birth .


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> Its not about 'making' people believe 'oral sex isn't nice', its about some actually preferring other things. About some actually not liking oral. I find it really weird that many here seem to think that everyone must like and do what they like and do.
> Seems pretty odd to me. :surprise:


Kindly, I didn't get that impression from others. 

Just, imho accurate, stating it's very much more common that indeed most men do like to receive good oral sex and most women do like to receive good oral sex.

Certainly oral isn't the only tool in a complete sexual too kit but saying it's not the only tool doesn't diminish the fact it's an extremely popular tool.

Some say an essential tool. Some say not essential but just very, very popular tool. 

Few say it is never needed if it's in the go to kit.


----------



## Anastasia6

BioFury said:


> So, hypothetically, you could wash it down with something and it'd be fine?
> 
> Not that you need to or anything. Guess I'm just thinking, if you know guys will find this off-putting, why make it an issue if it has a work-around?


Why bother dating a guy who thinks I"m just a sex toy?

I mean I like sex and I like sex with my guy but there are many things one can do without BJ's or swallowing. I personally swallow (didn't when I was younger) but if a guy told me he wouldn't date me or it was a must that I swallow I'd be dropping him like a hot potato.

Call it incompatibility.


----------



## Anastasia6

Wolfman1968 said:


> I don't think that is an equivalent comparison, because sexual intimacy is key to a marriage.
> 
> A more analogous comparison would be a woman breaking off a relationship with a man because HE refused to do oral, and PIV sex doesn't bring her to orgasm. Or, perhaps a woman who breaks off with a man because his "equipment" doesn't measure up (the problem with that analogy, is that there is absolutely nothing a guy can do about his anatomy, whereas refusal to do oral may be less irremediable).


You just describe many many wives situation. Some leave some don't.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ouch-80-percent-of-women-faking-orgasms-says-study/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201602/why-so-many-women-don-t-have-orgasms

Here's an excerpt. Men orgasm 96% of the time. Women 50%. I think that is also a high rate for women based on my talks with my married friends. 

For men, rates of orgasm varied only slightly based on how many of these three actions they’d reported:

One (just intercourse): 96 percent of the men had orgasms.
Two (hand massage and intercourse): 95 percent.
Three (hand massage, fellatio, and intercourse): 98 percent.
But for women, rates of orgasm varied considerably based on the number of actions:

One (just intercourse): 50 percent of the women reported orgasms.
Two (hand massage and intercourse): 71 percent.
Three (hand massage, cunnilingus, and intercourse): 86 percent.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Anastasia6 said:


> Why bother dating a guy who thinks I"m just a sex toy?
> 
> I mean I like sex and I like sex with my guy but there are many things one can do without BJ's or swallowing. I personally swallow (didn't when I was younger) but if a guy told me he wouldn't date me or it was a must that I swallow I'd be dropping him like a hot potato.
> 
> Call it incompatibility.


As long as it's not only a sex toy. 

A woman must have much, much more than that. And being a sex toy is one if the parts. A sex partner if you will, but some women in the great variations of good sex, sometimes like to be a sex toy during some encounters.


----------



## ConanHub

Mrs C is my sex toy. I just keep her batteries charged.:wink2:


----------



## Married but Happy

Oral is a given in our relationship, and was in every past relationship either of us has had. If it wasn't an option at least occasionally, I didn't continue dating those people due to incompatibility - obviously, no relationship developed. However, it's an occasional thing for us, just one of many techniques and variations depending on the mood and circumstances, but it is one of my favorite things. Last night was one of those times! Clearly, other couples may have different preferences ranging from no oral for one or both, to it being a routine part of every encounter (esp. for women who can't get aroused or orgasm from PIV or manual techniques).


----------



## pastasauce79

Oral is a yes in our relationship as well.

The guys I dated before my husband liked oral too.


----------



## talesofthe-twofoldmother

I think it all depends on the relationship and the woman in general...

Some women find it repulsive, others enjoy it! 

As far as being a normal part of a relationship... I think when you love someone and enjoy other parts of your sex life.. you won't necessarily worry if BJ's are regular or not especially if she satisfies you elsewhere.


----------



## CatholicDad

I think oral is perhaps directly related to how attracted you are to someone. If you’re highly attracted then you literally want to “taste” too. Is it really any different than a passionate kiss? In some ways it is perhaps more intimate than PIV because you are experiencing them in such a personal way. Although PIV is on another level because you can make a baby!

I can’t imagine not wanting to experience my wife like that.

Sadly, I think some of this is fallout from prevalent porn. Men have been so conditioned to visual stimuli they ignore their God given senses such as taste, touch, and smell which can be perhaps more erotic.

When I was on porn I was focused on visuals... decades later there is nothing like the taste/smell of my wife’s hair, skin, and more personal areas.


----------



## frusdil

I'd cry if my husband didn't want to give me oral anymore, he's so darn good at it!!! Lol!

I love giving it to him too. I always like it, but sometimes, especially at the moment while in peri-menopause, and my hormones are all over the place, I can barely contain myself, I HAVE to have him.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

CatholicDad said:


> I think oral is perhaps directly related to how attracted you are to someone. If you’re highly attracted then you literally want to “taste” too. Is it really any different than a passionate kiss? In some ways it is perhaps more intimate than PIV because you are experiencing them in such a personal way.


It is different if you aren't in a monogamous relationship. As a man, I would never give oral to a woman that I was just messing around with. Who knows what you might find in her vagina??


----------



## arbitrator

frusdil said:


> *I'd cry if my husband didn't want to give me oral anymore, he's so darn good at it!!! Lol!
> 
> I love giving it to him too. I always like it, but sometimes, especially at the moment while in peri-menopause, and my hormones are all over the place, I can barely contain myself, I HAVE to have him.*


*You're a simply beautiful lady, Fruse! 

Your hubby should be so proud! *


----------



## Livvie

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think oral is perhaps directly related to how attracted you are to someone. If you’re highly attracted then you literally want to “taste” too. Is it really any different than a passionate kiss? In some ways it is perhaps more intimate than PIV because you are experiencing them in such a personal way.
> 
> 
> 
> It is different if you aren't in a monogamous relationship. As a man, I would never give oral to a woman that I was just messing around with. Who knows what you might find in her vagina??
Click to expand...

Eww really, what you might find IN her vagina? Gross terminology. Guess you can say that about a guy too, though. Who knows what you might find coming out of his ****?

A nicer way of saying that is, I'd like testing results before I'm sexually involved with someone new.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Livvie said:


> Eww really, what you might find IN her vagina? Gross terminology. Guess you can say that about a guy too, though. Who knows what you might find coming out of his ****?
> 
> A nicer way of saying that is, I'd like testing results before I'm sexually involved with someone new.


What I'm saying is suppose this woman was with another man earlier that day or even the day before. You could be licking up another man's semen. 

That stuff stays in a woman for 5 days. 

Not to mention all the diseases out there. Your mouth can't wear a condom! It's making me gag thinking about it.

I'd have to be in a monogamous relationship. But with the infidelity rates these days I guess there is no safety.


----------



## Cletus

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It is different if you aren't in a monogamous relationship. As a man, I would never give oral to a woman that I was just messing around with. Who knows what you might find in her vagina??


Your tongue, for instance.


----------



## DownButNotOut

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What I'm saying is suppose this woman was with another man earlier that day or even the day before. You could be licking up another man's semen.
> 
> That stuff stays in a woman for 5 days.
> 
> Not to mention all the diseases out there. Your mouth can't wear a condom! It's making me gag thinking about it.
> 
> I'd have to be in a monogamous relationship. But with the infidelity rates these days I guess there is no safety.


Dental Dams:

https://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/Dental-dam-use.html


----------



## notmyjamie

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It is different if you aren't in a monogamous relationship. As a man, I would never give oral to a woman that I was just messing around with. Who knows what you might find in her vagina??


I'm curious, do you expect oral sex for yourself in a non-monogamous encounter?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

notmyjamie said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is different if you aren't in a monogamous relationship. As a man, I would never give oral to a woman that I was just messing around with. Who knows what you might find in her vagina??
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, do you expect oral sex for yourself in a non-monogamous encounter?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to expect something you are unwilling to give. So, no. But I'm not single, nor would I ever date again if I were to become single, so I have no skin in the game.


----------



## Hiner112

Link between oral sex and mouth and throat cancer



> *Some types of cancer are linked to human papillomavirus (HPV) infection in the mouth and throat. It's likely that some types of HPV are spread by oral sex.*
> 
> Cancers in the mouth and throat are sometimes called head and neck cancers, and include cancers of the:
> 
> 
> mouth
> lip
> tongue
> voice box (larynx)
> area that connects the nose and throat (nasopharynx)


----------



## Trident

Ok well sure if she's blowing a guy with HPV she might be increasing her risk.


----------



## DesertRat1978

Im the exception to the rule. As a man, I prefer giving oral to receiving by a whopping margin. Have some issues from the past that make receiving not my cup of tea. However, from what I have read and observed it seems that bj's happen in more marriages than not.


----------



## Cletus

Trident said:


> Ok well sure if she's blowing a guy with HPV she might be increasing her risk.


According to the CDC, and I quote "HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get the virus at some point their lives".


----------



## notmyjamie

Cletus said:


> According to the CDC, and I quote "HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get the virus at some point their lives".


As a women's health nurse I can attest that it is rampant. Last time I checked the stats it was about 85% of sexually active people but that was about 8 years ago, might even be higher now. Almost every patient I admit into labor and delivery has a history of HPV.


----------



## Trident

Cletus said:


> According to the CDC, and I quote "HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active men and women get the virus at some point their lives".


I hope my girlfriend never finds out.


----------



## Cletus

Trident said:


> I hope my girlfriend never finds out.


She has probably already had it.


----------



## notmyjamie

Unless you've only been with one person in your lifetime it's impossible to know who you got it from as it can lay dormant for years. I've had to tell woman in their 70's that they had it and they had only ever been with their husband. One woman's husband had died 20 years earlier!! 

A simple but not totally reliable for men to check themselves is to wrap the penis in a cloth soaked in white vinegar. HPV turns white. You could miss some spots this way but it's a simple at home test. LOL


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Just speaking from personal experience and gossiping with friends, young women seem to be more likely to do BJs whether they like them or not just because they're eager for acceptance and believe it's expected. I only know one woman who said she liked it, and that was because, she said, it was the only time she felt she had any power over her controlling boyfriend at the time. 

I'm older, and growing up, the key phrase was they were for "special," not routine. But in my personal experience they were mostly expected by men. In the older generations like me, BJs were never something you did before you'd already had intercourse for the first time with a man. In future (disease restricted) generations, it became an excuse to get BJs from women you were barely even intimate with. I think it still is.


----------



## bobert

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just speaking from personal experience and gossiping with friends, young women seem to be more likely to do BJs whether they like them or not just because they're eager for acceptance and believe it's expected. I only know one woman who said she liked it, and that was because, she said, it was the only time she felt she had any power over her controlling boyfriend at the time.
> 
> I'm older, and growing up, the key phrase was they were for "special," not routine. But in my personal experience they were mostly expected by men. In the older generations like me, BJs were never something you did before you'd already had intercourse for the first time with a man. In future (disease restricted) generations, it became an excuse to get BJs from women you were barely even intimate with. I think it still is.


In my experience, 20 years ago teenage girls handed out BJ's no problem. It wasn't seen as sex or part of the "partner count", and was given regardless of being in a relationship or not. 

Based on "friends" of mine who still sleep with teenagers, that hasn't changed.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

BioFury said:


> If a man screams at you when he gets angry while dating, it may not mean he'll become physically abusive later on. But it's a glimpse of his disposition.
> 
> Similarly, a woman would be revealing that she is uncomfortable with a routine sexual act. Whatever the reason, the thought process, just as with man-who-screams, is "If he/she is doing this now when she's trying to impress me, what's she going to be doing in 5 years after we're married and have 2 kids? How will this pattern/behavior evolve and progress?"
> 
> Not favorably. At least, that's what a lot of people's experience has taught us.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. If I may ask, is your distaste for the substance based on it's taste/consistency then?


It can be okay with some men and disgusting with others. Men who shoot in the woman's mouth are often not favorably received. Men who leak are a big turnoff. Men who shoot onto someone may not be favorably received by some. Men who shove a woman's head down instead of waiting to see if she voluntarily wants to give a BJ at some point convenient to her, like when she's not trying to get off herself, are not doing themselves any favors, and I can't tell you how many women I've heard complain about how rude that is. And if you've got one hair coming out of the tip of your penis, FFS, snip it. 

Some men just don't taste or smell good, and may not be any fault of their own, but you can't expect some woman to be turned on by having a BJ ruin her pleasure during sex.

I don't know any women who were genuinely enthusiastic about giving head, and I'm from a generation in the 70s who experimented a lot sexually, many with quite a few partners. 

But there are some guys it's okay with, nothing to put you off. I do think as someone is with someone for quite a while, don't be surprised if she gets tired of doing BJs and if you keep demanding it, don't be surprised if she just starts to avoid sex altogether. Because it's not really fair to have something a woman doesn't enjoy always be there to make sex a chore. 

It's even possible things may start out okay when young and with body changes, etc, things go sour, so to speak. 

I have met women on forums who say they are turned on by giving BJs and might be enthusiastic about it. Never met one in real life and my girlfriends were no prudes. I think like myself, a lot of young women were just enthusiastic in general and eager to please, but that doesn't last forever. That hinges on a lot of things.....


----------



## DownByTheRiver

bobert said:


> In my experience, 20 years ago teenage girls handed out BJ's no problem. It wasn't seen as sex or part of the "partner count", and was given regardless of being in a relationship or not.
> 
> Based on "friends" of mine who still sleep with teenagers, that hasn't changed.


I know. Things changed. It was considered beyond sex before the deadly diseases. And it does count. It's more intimate than intercourse, but hey, if people want to delude themselves because they're doing something they don't actually approve of themselves, having partners, whatever. I never had that holding me back. And BJs don't keep you from getting diseases either, but that's how it all turned around. I mean, you don't get pregnant, but also it's not for the woman's enjoyment, so there's better foreplay that also doesn't get you pregnant from a woman's point of view.


----------



## bobert

DownByTheRiver said:


> Men who shoot in the woman's mouth are often not favorably received.


Like at all, or just without warning? If "at all", well that's no fun. A swallower is a keeper  I'm just kidding... sort of.



DownByTheRiver said:


> I know. Things changed. It was considered beyond sex before the deadly diseases. And it does count. It's more intimate than intercourse, but hey, if people want to delude themselves because they're doing something they don't actually approve of themselves, having partners, whatever. I never had that holding me back. And BJs don't keep you from getting diseases either, but that's how it all turned around. I mean, you don't get pregnant, but also it's not for the woman's enjoyment, so there's better foreplay that also doesn't get you pregnant from a woman's point of view.


I'll be honest, it still doesn't really count for me. If someone asked how many people I've slept with, my answer would be who I've had PIV sex with, not the number or oral partners (giving or receiving). I still don't see it the same way, and could only give a guesstimate because I didn't keep track. Giving was pretty much the same though, aside from ease of doing it, so the women weren't getting totally ripped off.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

bobert said:


> Like at all, or just without warning? If "at all", well that's no fun. A swallower is a keeper  I'm just kidding... sort of.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be honest, it still doesn't really count for me. If someone asked how many people I've slept with, my answer would be who I've had PIV sex with, not the number or oral partners (giving or receiving). I still don't see it the same way, and could only give a guesstimate because I didn't keep track. Giving was pretty much the same though, aside from ease of doing it, so the women weren't getting totally ripped off.


I never just gave a guy a blow job and then never had sex. If I was going to do a BJ, then I was either going to or had already had sex. I don't like just servicing someone like a hooker. 

Interesting, when I was hanging around the touring bands on business, it was well known that the ones who were "committed" had this rule that they made up and didn't have agreement on with their so-called partners that BJs didn't count as infidelity. That's where they would draw the line if they were committed. You'd be surprised how openly they'd talk about it. And if there was a woman they actually liked, had gotten to know some, they would never just ask her for a BJ. It was either full monte or nothing. They knew how disrespectful it was to treat women like that. They just did it that way hoping not to get caught or knock someone up. I have seen men on tour buses looking in the mouths of strippers with a flashlight before closing the lounge doors for the three-way. 

As far as the shooting in the mouth, ask if they mind it and don't ever just do it. And again, with some guys, this may go better than with others. Taste and volume and texture are everything. Thin and unflavored and small amount, good. Taste and texture like a loogie and too much of it, bad.


----------



## bobert

Even just playing as a teenager/early 20's I heard and saw plenty of stuff. So I'm not shocked how many guys had that view on BJ's and infidelity, but it's BS to me. People justify all sorts of things.



DownByTheRiver said:


> Taste and texture like a loogie




Ok, that's disgusting. 

For the record, I'd never assume it was okay to do. Even in my marriage where I know the rules of what I can and cannot do I still give a warning and time to choose what she wants to do, bail or go deeper.


----------



## ccpowerslave

I much prefer PIV to BJ. I would say if I am in a stretch where I am getting only PIV for a while I will crave a BJ but other than that would much rather have PIV. 

One small wrinkle is if my wife actually wants to attempt to have an orgasm or not. Generally I can tell if after foreplay she immediately wants to be on top or wants me to use my hands. I’d say 70-30 chance of that but I am trying to up my foreplay game.

In those cases I can have performance pressure two ways:

1. No drinking; need to last for undetermined amount of time.

2. Drinking; need to finish as close to her as possible or risk not finishing and she maybe feels angry. I‘s say her limit is about 5 minutes after.

so it is mildly anxiety causing versus other things so I intend to not enjoy it until she has hers.


----------



## Divinely Favored

BioFury said:


> If a man screams at you when he gets angry while dating, it may not mean he'll become physically abusive later on. But it's a glimpse of his disposition.
> 
> Similarly, a woman would be revealing that she is uncomfortable with a routine sexual act. Whatever the reason, the thought process, just as with man-who-screams, is "If he/she is doing this now when she's trying to impress me, what's she going to be doing in 5 years after we're married and have 2 kids? How will this pattern/behavior evolve and progress?"
> 
> Not favorably. At least, that's what a lot of people's experience has taught us.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. If I may ask, is your distaste for the substance based on it's taste/consistency then?


My wife has acid reflux and said if she swallows it causes her acid reflux to act up. I assume the protein causes increased acid production in the stomach. Sux to be in middle of something and she has to sit up due to reflux. 

Feel better knowing why instead having the feeling she rejects part of me on some level due to spitting vs. swallowing. I think swallowing is sexy as hell but i understand her situation. Besides i would rather go when locked up like 2 dogs.


----------



## Girl_power

ccpowerslave said:


> I much prefer PIV to BJ. I would say if I am in a stretch where I am getting only PIV for a while I will crave a BJ but other than that would much rather have PIV.
> 
> One small wrinkle is if my wife actually wants to attempt to have an orgasm or not. Generally I can tell if after foreplay she immediately wants to be on top or wants me to use my hands. I’d say 70-30 chance of that but I am trying to up my foreplay game.
> 
> In those cases I can have performance pressure two ways:
> 
> 1. No drinking; need to last for undetermined amount of time.
> 
> 2. Drinking; need to finish as close to her as possible or risk not finishing and she maybe feels angry. I‘s say her limit is about 5 minutes after.
> 
> so it is mildly anxiety causing versus other things so I intend to not enjoy it until she has hers.


Is sex less enjoyable or more work for you when she decides she wants to have an orgasm?


----------



## ccpowerslave

Girl_power said:


> Is sex less enjoyable or more work for you when she decides she wants to have an orgasm?


It depends. If she wants to be on top she’s doing 90% of the work and I enjoy it a lot as long as I can last long enough. If I can’t then generally I do not as I have to think of things like drowning puppies and/or cause myself physical pain to avoid finishing too quick. After she finishes in those cases right back to enjoying it!

I want her to want to have an orgasm every time in any case whether I enjoy it or not because I think she’s more likely to want to go in the future that way.

Also it’s a damn shame she doesn’t like oral or just straight up fingering because if she didn’t stop me on that I’d take her to completion 100% of the time that way before PIV. She wants the D though what can I say...


----------



## RebuildingMe

ccpowerslave said:


> I want her to want to have an orgasm every time in any case whether I enjoy it or not because I think she’s more likely to want to go in the future that way.


It’s why pet owners give their dogs treats.


----------



## Girl_power

ccpowerslave said:


> It depends. If she wants to be on top she’s doing 90% of the work and I enjoy it a lot as long as I can last long enough. If I can’t then generally I do not as I have to think of things like drowning puppies and/or cause myself physical pain to avoid finishing too quick. After she finishes in those cases right back to enjoying it!
> 
> I want her to want to have an orgasm every time in any case whether I enjoy it or not because I think she’s more likely to want to go in the future that way.
> 
> Also it’s a damn shame she doesn’t like oral or just straight up fingering because if she didn’t stop me on that I’d take her to completion 100% of the time that way before PIV. She wants the D though what can I say...


I appreciate this Insight. I think one of the reasons why my ex didn’t have more sex with me is because it’s a lot of work/effort when I wanted to orgasm. 

It kind of sucks to be the women in this case.

If your wife wanted an orgasm every time, and she wanted you on top would you have sex with her less frequently?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Lila said:


> I'm very curious. How will you make sure that the person woman you marry will not think oral sex is gross, wrong, or unenjoyable unless you try it beforehand? Have you considered that she may just not be good at it? If I'm not mistaken, you will not be partaking in sex prior to marriage, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> I had no idea what semen tasted like or it's texture prior to my first experience with it. I found it quite distasteful. I tried it a few more times with my 1st sexual boyfriend and then a couple of times with my husband, it never got better.
> 
> I do enjoy giving oral sex under certain conditions. I haven't had any one of my lovers leave me because of my conditions. It could be that it wasn't a fetish for them or it could be that what I was willing to bring to the table was more than enough to make up for what I wasn't willing to bring.


One can change their diet and there by change the taste of their semen. Supposedly eating or drinking pineapple/juice makes it sweet. Coffee and the like makes it bitter.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Girl_power said:


> If your wife wanted an orgasm every time, and she wanted you on top would you have sex with her less frequently?


No. I think even if her thing was kicking me in the balls it wouldn’t stop me. It would make things harder though. 

She likes to control the depth, angle, speed, etc... which she can’t do if I am on top. 

She can kind of do it if I am on the side but in that case I always use my hands as well. Since in that position I have to concentrate on how she wants the pressure (where, how firm or fast which changes depending on how close she is) generally I am focused on that which is good because I don’t have issues lasting that way even if she takes a long time.


----------



## Divinely Favored

BioFury said:


> *Re: Is oral a given for most?l*
> 
> 
> 
> Right on, I get that. But, if the situation can be improved, why not go for it?
> 
> It sounds like he had a bad experience once, with particular woman, and he's just never put in the effort to get over it. So with a little prodding, encouragement, lack of blowjobs, and therapy, he might come around :grin2:


My first time GF in HS had used vinegar. For a long time i had an aversion to smell of vinegar.


----------



## Personal

Divinely Favored said:


> My first time GF in HS had used vinegar.


For what?


----------



## Divinely Favored

CharlieParker said:


> And that’s a good thing. :smile2:


My wife recently told me, "I'll do what ever you want, i trust you"


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> I know. Things changed. It was considered beyond sex before the deadly diseases. And it does count. It's more intimate than intercourse, but hey, if people want to delude themselves because they're doing something they don't actually approve of themselves, having partners, whatever. I never had that holding me back. And BJs don't keep you from getting diseases either, but that's how it all turned around. I mean, you don't get pregnant, but also it's not for the woman's enjoyment, so there's better foreplay that also doesn't get you pregnant from a woman's point of view.


Dont get how you feel its more intimate that intercourse. BJ does not create a child together.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Divinely Favored said:


> Dont get how you feel its more intimate that intercourse. BJ does not create a child together.


So for you the only reason to have sex is so you can have a child? Are you a fundamentalist?


----------



## Divinely Favored

bobert said:


> A swallower is a keeper  I'm just kidding... sort of.


A BJ to completion with cleanup is very memorable. And sexy hot as crap! I would rather have PIV though with eye contact.


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> So for you the only reason to have sex is so you can have a child? Are you a fundamentalist?


Where did that come from? SMH. Is someone talking baseball? Just said a BJ does not lead to a child. Possibility of creating a child together seems more intimate to me.


----------



## southbound

Personal said:


> For what?


I was wondering the same thing. Vinegar for what?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Divinely Favored said:


> Where did that come from? SMH. Is someone talking baseball? Just said a BJ does not lead to a child. Possibility of creating a child together seems more intimate to me.


Not if you're not trying to.


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not if you're not trying to.


My wife got pregnant 3x while on BC pills. One is 21 and another just turned 16.


----------



## Divinely Favored

southbound said:


> I was wondering the same thing. Vinegar for what?


Douche


----------



## Personal

Divinely Favored said:


> Douche


I had no idea that some people used vinegar to do that. That said I wouldn't like the smell of vinegar either.


----------



## Casual Observer

Divinely Favored said:


> Where did that come from? SMH. Is someone talking baseball? Just said a BJ does not lead to a child. Possibility of creating a child together seems more intimate to me.





DownByTheRiver said:


> Not if you're not trying to.


I think, looking back on things, that the possibility of pregnancy made sex a bit more exciting, something beyond "just" intimacy. Even if you were going out of your way to keep that from happening. Just the possibility, the recognition that you're still of an age where it could happen, adds something to it. 

We assume that it's all about hormones, but I think it's more than that.

Oral sex may be pleasurable and intimate, but at no time did it involve fear of pregnancy. OK, perhaps that's not quite right. Oral sex was often an alternative to something that could result in pregnancy, so maybe it carries enduring "exciting" memories for some.


----------



## moon7

Doesnt matter if a woman likes it or not, if she doesnt and try not doing or she ends up single or is bullied into doing.

I believe only a real hot woman (who the man cant afford to say no to) can MAYBE chose.

Other than that only some exceptions of women with real strong will and a backbone.

The oposite (a man not giving oral) seems to be more common. I mean, i received once in my life. Only once and for like 30seconds.


----------



## Cletus

moon7 said:


> Doesnt matter if a woman likes it or not, if she doesnt and try not doing or she ends up single or is bullied into doing.


My wife made it pretty clear 35 years ago that she was not going to do that. 

She never has, and she has never been bullied into it. We don't all drag our knuckles into the bedroom.


----------



## moon7

Cletus said:


> My wife made it pretty clear 35 years ago that she was not going to do that.
> 
> She never has, and she has never been bullied into it. We don't all drag our knuckles into the bedroom.


You made me notice i didnt put "most women".

But idk any woman who doesnt do it, actually. Ive heard on the internet, but never met them.

NOW im trying to be one of those too, not bc i dont like, but just being a passive agressive ***** xD

Im sorry, i should have writen "most women" up there.


----------



## bobert

moon7 said:


> Doesnt matter if a woman likes it or not, if she doesnt and try not doing or she ends up single or is bullied into doing.
> 
> I believe only a real hot woman (who the man cant afford to say no to) can MAYBE chose.
> 
> Other than that only some exceptions of women with real strong will and a backbone.
> 
> The oposite (a man not giving oral) seems to be more common. I mean, i received once in my life. Only once and for like 30seconds.


You must date some real assholes.


----------



## Numb26

Not to stir up the pot but my experience when it comes to women and oral can be summed up in a statement from a friend of mine, "I don't mean that I don't suck **, I meant I don't suck his **"


----------



## Divinely Favored

moon7 said:


> Doesnt matter if a woman likes it or not, if she doesnt and try not doing or she ends up single or is bullied into doing.
> 
> I believe only a real hot woman (who the man cant afford to say no to) can MAYBE chose.
> 
> Other than that only some exceptions of women with real strong will and a backbone.
> 
> The oposite (a man not giving oral) seems to be more common. I mean, i received once in my life. Only once and for like 30seconds.


That is totally atrocious. On behalf of all the men who absolutely love to give, im sorry. You evidently have chosen some asses for partners.

I think a percentage of women have this idea that it is degrading and submissive to perform oral.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Divinely Favored said:


> That is totally atrocious. On behalf of all the men who absolutely love to give, im sorry. You evidently have chosen some asses for partners.
> 
> I think a percentage of women have this idea that it is degrading and submissive to perform oral.


Some yes; however some women think sex is a burden, some think sex is unnecessary, all of those groups obviously say oral is bad.

To be more accurate, let's have a poll.

Of women that enjoy sex with their SO, let's do a poll, who thinks performing oral is degrading and submissive ie bad, just very bad?

(Who knows how to do a poll here, would someone kindly volunteer)?

Let's just see.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

moon7 said:


> Doesnt matter if a woman likes it or not, if she doesnt and try not doing or she ends up single or is bullied into doing.
> 
> I believe only a real hot woman (who the man cant afford to say no to) can MAYBE chose.
> 
> Other than that only some exceptions of women with real strong will and a backbone.
> 
> The oposite (a man not giving oral) seems to be more common. I mean, i received once in my life. Only once and for like 30seconds.


Once, and only for 30 seconds? Seriously, you are missing out.

You have GOT to find someone you like, care for, and instruct them on how to give you oral.


----------



## Lila

Divinely Favored said:


> One can change their diet and there by change the taste of their semen. Supposedly eating or drinking pineapple/juice makes it sweet. Coffee and the like makes it bitter.


I have heard that to be true but haven't experienced it for myself. Nothing my ex husband did fixed the issues with texture and taste. Call me the outlier 🙂. 

At this point in my life, I'm really not interested in "training" my taste receptors to accept semen. I enjoy giving oral sex but if the man I'm with HAS to ejaculate in the mouth, then we're not compatible. Thankfully this hasn't been an issue with anyone I've either been or wanted to become sexually active with. It's probably because they were all more interested in my pleasure than theirs.


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> I have heard that to be true but haven't experienced it for myself. Nothing my ex husband did fixed the issues with texture and taste. Call me the outlier 🙂.
> 
> At this point in my life, I'm really not interested in "training" my taste receptors to accept semen. I enjoy giving oral sex but if the man I'm with HAS to ejaculate in the mouth, then we're not compatible. Thankfully this hasn't been an issue with anyone I've either been or wanted to become sexually active with. It's probably because they were all more interested in my pleasure than theirs.


Celery, pineapple juice and lots of water usually work


----------



## ccpowerslave

My wife hated giving oral. Found some organic flavored condoms and now she’s a demon. I even asked her if she read or watched something to get her technique refined. Bought a 100 pack of em haha...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife hated giving oral. Found some organic flavored condoms and now she’s a demon. I even asked her if she read or watched something to get her technique refined. Bought a 100 pack of em haha...


Only a hundred? 🙂🙂🙂


----------



## ccpowerslave

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Only a hundred? 🙂🙂🙂


It’s a start


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> It’s a start


Ever the optimist!


----------



## DownByTheRiver

moon7 said:


> Doesnt matter if a woman likes it or not, if she doesnt and try not doing or she ends up single or is bullied into doing.
> 
> I believe only a real hot woman (who the man cant afford to say no to) can MAYBE chose.
> 
> Other than that only some exceptions of women with real strong will and a backbone.
> 
> The oposite (a man not giving oral) seems to be more common. I mean, i received once in my life. Only once and for like 30seconds.


Moon, I did quite a bit of, um, field research when young, and I can count on one hand the number of guys who did oral, but then the whole lot of them except one expected regular oral. And yes, it was nearly always briefly, not that I blame them. I never wanted them to do anything that was a turnoff for them, and apparently it was for most. The small percentage of guys who were good in bed, it wasn't because of oral anyway. It was a variety of other things, including attitude, aptitude, and being sexually fluid to a degree.


----------



## Numb26

DownByTheRiver said:


> Moon, I did quite a bit of, um, field research when young, and I can count on one hand the number of guys who did oral, but then the whole lot of them except one expected regular oral. And yes, it was nearly always briefly, not that I blame them. I never wanted them to do anything that was a turnoff for them, and apparently it was for most. The small percentage of guys who were good in bed, it wasn't because of oral anyway. It was a variety of other things, including attitude, aptitude, and being sexually fluid to a degree.


Reading this posts makes me think that I am an oddball for liking giving oral. Hahaha


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Numb26 said:


> Reading this posts makes me think that I am an oddball for liking giving oral. Hahaha


No. I think the guys who really like it really like it! Because with few exceptions, women aren't going to be that pushy about it. I imagine just like with BJs, it depends on so many things.


----------



## Torninhalf

Numb26 said:


> Reading this posts makes me think that I am an oddball for liking giving oral. Hahaha


Reading these posts made me realize that BJ’s were optional. Who knew 😂🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## ccpowerslave

I like giving head. My wife used to tolerate it and would orgasm from it but over time she backed away from it for unknown reasons. Won’t let me do it now even if she is really turned on, it could be terrible at it who knows. If you believe Reddit it is every woman’s dream to have a man who will happily go down for however long she needs multiple times a day but not her...

Now she greatly prefers PIV with or without hands or toys but she always wants PIV combined with those for the whole duration. I’m not going to fight against what someone wants if that’s what she likes then that’s what she gets!


----------



## Numb26

Torninhalf said:


> Reading these posts made me realize that BJ’s were optional. Who knew 😂🤷🏼‍♀️


They are optional???? Who knew?


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## heartsbeating

When I was fairly young and immature, a close female friend told me the taste (of who she experienced) was disgusting and through listening to her stories, concluded that I wouldn't do this. But I overlooked the fact that she hated giving head, and really, not a fan of the sex shared with her man in general. That's not to suggest the two aspects are related; each to their own.

I then recognized that her view on sex and how she interacted with her man was completely different to me. So the first time I whispered for Batman to release in my mouth, which was a first generally for me, took him by surprise (in the best possible way) and I had no problem with tasting him. Granted, it's not every time.


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## Divinely Favored

Numb26 said:


> Reading this posts makes me think that I am an oddball for liking giving oral. Hahaha


We can both be odd balls. My wife is very, VERY well taken care of.


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## HLSRMI

southbound said:


> I recently saw a few minutes of a female comedian, Nikki Glaser, and she was doing a stand-up routine about when females first discover that bj’s are something they will be doing in life. She said she first thought maybe it was something that not every woman does, but then you realize it’s something you’ll be doing as a woman. She even went into the choice of swallow or spit.
> 
> This was all a comedy routine, but it did make me curious, are bj’s really something that is considered a normal act for women? This may sound strange coming from a guy, but I can honestly see where that wouldn’t be every woman’s cup of tea, just like bondage isn’t for everybody. Are bj’s considered a common practice among most couples who have a great relationship, and is it something most women don’t mind?


Yes.


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## PreRaph

Diana7 said:


> I am always amazed at how so many seem to base their choice of a partner on one or two things that they will or wont do sexually. For me my choice of partner is based on so many more things, oral sex or not oral sex is not something I would ever end a good relationship over.


Do I ever agree with this. Some partners of mine gave me BJs, some did not. The sex was fine either way. Likewise, some women I've been with liked for me to give them oral, others did not want it at all. It didn't feel good to them, didn't feel right some how, and for many of them, it made them feel like a piece of meat that you could activate by pressing some buttons. It was the opposite of intimacy. There is no rule for good sex. Good sex is so much more than (pardon the vulgarity) coming like a horse because this babe is so hawt. Even as a man I have to want to be with the woman I'm making love to or I am left feeling far more alone when it's over. And that's not a good feeling.


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## PreRaph

Wolfman1968 said:


> Reminds me of an old joke:
> 
> Why is the bride smiling when she walks down the aisle?
> 
> Because she knows she's given her last BJ.


 Haha, good one


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## MattMatt

Zombie Cat says time this zombie thread about blow football was put to bed. (I think Zombie Cat has misunderstood the purpose of this thread. But I, for one, am not going to correct his misimpression.)


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