# I don't want to lose her but think I have?



## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

Background: Oct 2013, Wife says things are not good and we need to go to marriage counseling. This was out of the blue and I was not aware how bad things were. I told her I thought marriage counseling was a last resort (our only issue is we had grown apart over the last couple of years and our communication suffered). So things went okay until mid Jan. I found a phone number that was not recognized from a different state. So I started monitoring all communications (I have all password and put trackers on her phone). Come to find out it was a guy but he would only call her and very in-frequent. Like 5 times in a few months is all. So she get's caught and says she wants out. Then all of the bashing between her and her friends set in (she still didn't know I could read everything). She never had a nice thing to say, nor did her friends. Long story short we reconciled. At this time I said we should go to counseling now that I was aware of the issues in our marriage and she refused. She found out about the tracking and I told her I took it off, but never did. Nothing out of the ordinary until August when her friend was saying now get your roommate (referring to me) out of the house. Fast forward to Dec and somehow (she is not tech saavy AT ALL) she figured out the tracker and took it off her phone. Didn't say a word about it. Gut feeling right before Christmas that something was not right Asked her what's up and she brought up that I had been tracking her. Got through it (from what I thought) and I never put the tracker back on (I have never found anything in the last year that would dictate an affair). I could still track her phone with Android GPS, Phone call/text records, etc. So a few weeks ago was D-day. On my way to work and get a text saying she is not OK. Called her and it was a fight. She left the call saying she was done. We talked about divorce a little, both being the in heat of the moment for a week or so. We have 5 kids (2 together). For the last couple of weeks I have been doing 180, rollercoaster emotions, etc. 

Basically her heart has been hardened over the last couple years and she fits walk away wife syndrome perfectly! I don't want to lost this but not sure what I can do now. I have admitted and can fully understand where I went bad in the marriage (not helping around the house enough, with kids, dishes, supporting her, etc). I started IC a couple weeks back because I have a desire to change my life. I have not been the same (lost interest in things, depression, etc) the last couple of years. 

She is to the point that she says there is no hope. She says she has given me plenty of chances and just wants to love herself. She want's to be happy. She want's a better environment for the kids. She does not have any faith or trust that I can changed because I never have before. Even now she refuses MC. We are still in the same house and same bed (no extra rooms or anywhere else to sleep, except couch). We sleep on opposite ends of a huge bed and she has taken all physical contact away. Not even a hug, etc. She says she doesn't know if she could ever be intimate with me again (sex, emotional, etc). She basically snapped on D-day and I can't get anything from her. If I don't talk (which I don't much because of 180 and already have said everything I need to say) she won't talk at all either. Only about kids. 

I have read a lot about hardened hearts and WAW. Fit's our situation exactly to the tee. I can't rule out EA or PA but unless she got really good at hiding it (which I suppose she could have) I have no proof.

Any advice to save this?


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

Forgot: Been together 7 years, married 5 1/2.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Read this:

https://coachjackito.com/blog/i-changed-wife-come-back/

It does a great job explaining what's going on here. You should have been in counseling the minutes she asked for it.....when a woman asks for counseling it's a sign that all is not well. You blew it off and sent her the message that all was well for you so that's all that mattered. Read the article.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Sounds pretty far gone. Not sure there is much you can do now. 

I would suggest she has an underground EA and she is totally focussed on the green grass on the other side of the fence right now.

A healthy dose of reality might be your only action right now. And here's where you can make reality work for you.

She expects you just to move out and leave her the house right? WRONG! MAKE SURE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN. If she wants to go hit alone, fine, help her get to that space. Going it alone means supporting herself.

Here is my suggestion;
1. Sell the family house and any other major asset you have.
2. Buy yourself a small house or rent a place nearby.
3. Come to an agreement for sharing the kids. Before D, make sure you put aside enough time to have them 50% of the time. This may require a huge adjustment to your working times, but it is important that you do this as it is part of the 50/50 split deal.
4. Be a good dad. Spend time with your kids.
5. If she doesn't have a job, she will need to get one. I suggest topping up her finances to equivalent of half total incomes each.
6. If she has a job, again, top up her finances so you both earn the same.
7. Get fit again. See your friends more.
8. Take yourself and the kids on a holiday if you can afford it.

Once you have done that and she is out in the "real world", you might get lucky and she might just re-consider her decision to leave. Don't wait for her though. Keep moving on in your life.

Good luck.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Read this:
> 
> https://coachjackito.com/blog/i-changed-wife-come-back/
> 
> It does a great job explaining what's going on here. You should have been in counseling the minutes she asked for it.....when a woman asks for counseling it's a sign that all is not well. You blew it off and sent her the message that all was well for you so that's all that mattered. Read the article.


Good article. The only problem I see is how? Its says "To really connect with her emotionally and start to turn her feelings of love on for you again, you are going to have to get on her side". How the heck do I do that when the conversations are petty, kids etc. 

She has the biggest wall ever built up, kind of like the rest of the article says. I also think her support group like her sister is not helping. Basically encouraging her marriage to end with not even a consideration for our kids. Every now and then I get what seems like a sign she still wants us. She has also said she just goes back and forth. Like a lot of posts on TAM her attitude is basically I don't know about everything.

Any advice to get on her side?


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Read this:
> 
> https://coachjackito.com/blog/i-changed-wife-come-back/
> 
> It does a great job explaining what's going on here. You should have been in counseling the minutes she asked for it.....when a woman asks for counseling it's a sign that all is not well. You blew it off and sent her the message that all was well for you so that's all that mattered. Read the article.


Good article. The only problem I see is how? Its says "To really connect with her emotionally and start to turn her feelings of love on for you again, you are going to have to get on her side". How the heck do I do that when the conversations are petty, kids etc. 

She has the biggest wall ever built up, kind of like the rest of the article says. I also think her support group like her sister is not helping. Basically encouraging her marriage to end with not even a consideration for our kids. Every now and then I get what seems like a sign she still wants us. She has also said she just goes back and forth. Like a lot of posts on TAM her attitude is basically I don't know about everything.

Any advice to get on her side?


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## SingleDadof2 (Mar 9, 2015)

From my experience, it is best to define what is going on with your relationship. Are you actively working on being together or separated? If you are unsure you are in limbo. This is not a healthy place to be in. I was in limbo for months! It kept me guessing and the roller coaster of emotions was never ending. She slept in bed next to me, much like yours, and it was painful because all I wanted to do was hold her. It wasn't until we both stated we were ending our relationship when the real healing began. I think you need to define your relationship first and then go from there. 

Side note, whatever you do don't peg, plead, promise, ect. This will only annoy her and push her further way. Cry behind closed doors if you must, but be strong in front of her. If you can show you are capable with or without her, it could be beneficial to winning her back.


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

She probably has checked out of the relationship a while ago and has been treading water for months. Sorry to say but when she says it's over, she means it. Trust me, I know, I have been there. It is hard to say this but, she envisions a life better without you. 

Now having said that, take a few deep breaths and try to calm your self down. Breath in. Breath out. OK? Calm yourself. 

Now your question was, is there any chance at saving this relationship? 

In football terminology it's a Hail Mary Play, there is no guarantee it will work AND it will take a lot of internal strength on your part because all you want to hear  from HER is that you guys will be OK, but she does not want that right now. Most people on here will not agree with what I am about to write because they will advise you to bail out on this relationship. And maybe you should, but you asked if it can be saved, so here it goes:

1. *Calm down and get your emotions under control*

2. *DO NOT ask her for reassurances that your relationship will be OK or Another Chance*

3. *Buy yourself some time and stay in the house* - In the next few days or weeks, she may tell you it's over and ask you to leave the house. Don't be argumentative, just say "I understand it is over, I just need some more time to sort this all out in my head." Buying yourself some time will delay the separation and ultimately delay the divorce. Keep delaying and put time on your side right now. If you separate too soon your spouse will not see the things you are doing (the 180). Remember, say "I just need some more time to sort this out in my head."

4. * DO NOT cry or beg for another chance.* If you cry or beg, it will upset her and turn her off. I know you want to hear her say "OK, let's give it another shot." But sorry that won't be said by her right now. If your anxiety is stating to get the best of you, say: "I'm going down to the grocery store to pick up a few things." Or "I'm going to look at tires." Just any bs excuse to get out of the house for a few minutes so you can compose yourself.

5. *Now is not the time for who is right and who is wrong. * Yes, it looks like she has been up to no good, but right now she wants out of this marriage. If you try to point out what she has done right now, she will run. You need to get this relationship to a point where she wants back in, then you can deal with her wrongdoing.

6. *Refrain from taking to family members. * They will want the best for you and want you to stop hurting, so they will advise you to move out and file for divorce asap. They will tell you this because they love you and they want this limbo turmoil to end for you. Further, if you do reconcile, and you talk to family, well now you have awkward holidays that will cause a whole new type of stress for your marriage.

7. *Act like you are happy and keeping busy.* Don't sleep in and act depressed. Don't follow her around the house. If you have to put a fake smile on your face. Start a household project. Repaint a room, etc.

8. *DO NOT say "I love you" to her. * No matter what. It will be awkward for her and it will make her think of why she is unhappy.

9. Keep conversations short and pleasant.

10. Take up fishing. It will teach you how to have patience. Because you will need it for the time it will take for this to play out.

11. Don't go too fast. You may see signs from her that seem like she is softening up to you. Don't try to set that hook to soon. Let her think a little more about how life can be better with you.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Read this:
> 
> https://coachjackito.com/blog/i-changed-wife-come-back/
> 
> It does a great job explaining what's going on here. You should have been in counseling the minutes she asked for it.....when a woman asks for counseling it's a sign that all is not well. You blew it off and sent her the message that all was well for you so that's all that mattered. Read the article.


Good article. The only problem I see is how? Its says "To really connect with her emotionally and start to turn her feelings of love on for you again, you are going to have to get on her side". How the heck do I do that when the conversations are petty, kids etc.

She has the biggest wall ever built up, kind of like the rest of the article says. I also think her support group like her sister is not helping. Basically encouraging her marriage to end with not even a consideration for our kids. Every now and then I get what seems like a sign she still wants us. She has also said she just goes back and forth. Like a lot of posts on TAM her attitude is basically I don't know about everything.

Any advice to get on her side?


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> It does a great job explaining what's going on here. You should have been in counseling the minutes she asked for it.....when a woman asks for counseling it's a sign that all is not well. You blew it off and sent her the message that all was well for you so that's all that mattered. Read the article.


Good article. The only problem I see is how? Its says "To really connect with her emotionally and start to turn her feelings of love on for you again, you are going to have to get on her side". How the heck do I do that when the conversations are petty, kids etc.

She has the biggest wall ever built up, kind of like the rest of the article says. I also think her support group like her sister is not helping. Basically encouraging her marriage to end with not even a consideration for our kids. Every now and then I get what seems like a sign she still wants us. She has also said she just goes back and forth. Like a lot of posts on TAM her attitude is basically I don't know about everything.

Any advice to get on her side?


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

poida said:


> Sounds pretty far gone. Not sure there is much you can do now.
> 
> I would suggest she has an underground EA and she is totally focussed on the green grass on the other side of the fence right now.
> 
> ...


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

SingleDadof2 said:


> From my experience, it is best to define what is going on with your relationship. Are you actively working on being together or separated? If you are unsure you are in limbo. This is not a healthy place to be in. I was in limbo for months! It kept me guessing and the roller coaster of emotions was never ending. She slept in bed next to me, much like yours, and it was painful because all I wanted to do was hold her. It wasn't until we both stated we were ending our relationship when the real healing began. I think you need to define your relationship first and then go from there.
> 
> Side note, whatever you do don't peg, plead, promise, ect. This will only annoy her and push her further way. Cry behind closed doors if you must, but be strong in front of her. If you can show you are capable with or without her, it could be beneficial to winning her back.


We are in limbo. I think this is because neither of us are willing to leave our home at this point. I am definitely taking guesses on everything and emotions are a rollercoaster. I am actually getting a little better with the ups/downs. She work's weekends so I have the kids all weekend. Which is kind of hard because I never have a minute to just think. Weekends at this point are hard. 

How can we define the relationship? I feel if I push the issue she will just say fine were done (which she hasn't exactly said. She has basically said we are over but never absolute). If I don't say anything then she won't say anything at this point either. Limbo sucks! I no longer beg, plead, say I love you, etc. I surely do not cry in front of her.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

legaleagle said:


> She probably has checked out of the relationship a while ago and has been treading water for months. Sorry to say but when she says it's over, she means it. Trust me, I know, I have been there. It is hard to say this but, she envisions a life better without you.
> 
> Now having said that, take a few deep breaths and try to calm your self down. Breath in. Breath out. OK? Calm yourself.
> 
> ...


*Thanks for the advice. It is hard to hang in there but it's what I want to do. I don't want to give up until the end. I just don't really know how to act or what to say. She basically says I disconnected from our family awhile ago. I feel by not talking, etc, it just re-enforces her thoughts. *


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## legaleagle (Dec 29, 2014)

Trust me brother, I have been where you have been. And I am praying for you. In 2011 my wife threw me out and I tried everything and I did go back. And it was misery. And recently, we separated and it looks like it is a done deal now. Every situation in different, but it seems that once a spouse has decided they are done and you keep trying, it may work for a while but it will ultimately fail. That being said, if you are not ready to give up, HANG IN THERE! 

It must be very difficult when you are in a lot of pain and hurting. And you want nothing more than the pain to end as soon as possible. But you are where you are at now, and you there is no magic wand to fix it immediately. You will have to be calm and patient. You can't expect to go from this sad state your marriage is in to full blown love again. Not realistic.

Try to set some SMALL goals for your marriage right now. Like:

1. Take talk of divorce off the table
2. Start doing social things with your wife again

Now what you have been doing in the past has not been working. So you need to do something different. And maybe you are right some of the things in the 180 may shut her out and may grow farther from you so I'm not saying ignore her, just do things differently. 

Right now she has decided that her life will be better without you. In order for her to check back into this marriage, she needs to feel that her life will be better with you! You need to figure out in your head how that needs to happen. Nobody on an internet board can tell you. You need to figure it out for yourself.

And once you see that things are getting better, don't take pressure of this wound! (that was my mistake)

I wish you all the best!


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

legaleagle said:


> Trust me brother, I have been where you have been. And I am praying for you. In 2011 my wife threw me out and I tried everything and I did go back. And it was misery. And recently, we separated and it looks like it is a done deal now. Every situation in different, but it seems that once a spouse has decided they are done and you keep trying, it may work for a while but it will ultimately fail. That being said, if you are not ready to give up, HANG IN THERE!
> 
> It must be very difficult when you are in a lot of pain and hurting. And you want nothing more than the pain to end as soon as possible. But you are where you are at now, and you there is no magic wand to fix it immediately. You will have to be calm and patient. You can't expect to go from this sad state your marriage is in to full blown love again. Not realistic.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice and thank you!

I already took divorce off the table and even though she has said she is done and all the other crap she has said, she has never point blank asked for a divorce. She goes back and forth if she wants to be together. 

I wonder what are some ways to get her to do social things again? I highly doubt she would accept if I asked her to go on a date. Should I be strong about it, like let's go bowling tonight? Any ideas on what would be some good social things to do, that wouldn't scare her away? I think dinner might turn her off because then we would be forced to talk and it's more intimate.

My 180 is just like a 180 is. I know alot of it talks about not initiating conversations, etc. That kind of stuff is why I am where we are today. Checking out. So my 180 is doing things differently that what I have done up to this point.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Read this:
> 
> https://coachjackito.com/blog/i-changed-wife-come-back/
> 
> It does a great job explaining what's going on here. You should have been in counseling the minutes she asked for it.....when a woman asks for counseling it's a sign that all is not well. You blew it off and sent her the message that all was well for you so that's all that mattered. Read the article.


So when a woman says she wants something you better freeken give it to her. If a man wants something...who cares. Sounds about right.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

Update: Last night I got to talk to her for about 10 minutes, not long at all. I brought up being in limbo and she basically said no green light (obviously) and that we might be in limbo for another week or two. She doesn't know how long it will take, which was then followed up with she doesn't know if she will ever have feeling for me again like she used to. 

I asked if she would like to go hang out some time this week and she basically said no without saying no. She uses the words "doesn't feel comfortable". Same words for just about everything. 

What really struck me was her seeming like she slipped when she said a week or two being in limbo. Of course she then corrected fast and said she doesn't know how long it will take. I don't know why (except that I can read her really well) but my gut feeling or intuition is telling me something is wrong still. She has a plan and I will know in a week or two, that's what it seems like. Forgive me if you will but I just feel like there is an EA or something else going on here. I could be reading into all of this to, I tend to do that. 

VAR in the car time? If she finds it were over, if she doesn't find it that is where all her talking takes place. I would pretty much know what her TRUE feelings are, possibly discover EA or more, and at least I think I would have a better heads up if she was using a different phone, maybe talking to lawyers? I have already had some consultations so I can be prepared there. She really doesn't have the money and has always said she doesn't want to use a lawyer, just do it ourselves, but at this point I don't really trust anything.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Don't trust anything she says. Act now. Investigate. follow the advice you have been given here. it sounds like she has somebody else on the side or is thinking of somebody else on the side. Usually people don't leave low conflicts M unless they have hope of something better out there, and EA could be. Do not confront her until you have solid proof.

Listen carefully to what she says, be attentive and recpetive of everything that goes on around her.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Investigate and follow your guts. 
Toxic friends? New Beau? Dreaming of the Greener Grass?


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Investigate and follow your guts.
> Toxic friends? New Beau? Dreaming of the Greener Grass?


All of the above most likely.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

SamuraiJack said:


> Investigate and follow your guts.
> Toxic friends? New Beau? Dreaming of the Greener Grass?


Yes her friends on toxic. She has surrounded herself with single mothers. Only way for me to find out if it's OM would probably be VAR that will go into the car today. She is definitely dreaming of greener grass hence the walk away wife syndrome to the tee.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> So when a woman says she wants something you better freeken give it to her. If a man wants something...who cares. Sounds about right.



You can foot stomp about the message all up want but it is what it is, and your comment is unhelpful for the OP precisely because it is foot stomping.

And assuming you actually looked at the article if that's what you got I feel bad for you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> You can foot stomp about the message all up want but it is what it is, and your comment is unhelpful for the OP precisely because it is foot stomping.
> 
> And assuming you actually looked at the article if that's what you got I feel bad for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Women are different tha us men. See women need more out of life, men mostly are content with less. us men want sex, companionship, meals served, clothes washed and we are pretty much "content".

Women want and need companionship, somebody to care and listen to them, be there for them, someone they can trust and be their rock, financial stability and yeah sex too.

men need less check marks on their list than women. Took me a while to figure that out. But it is what it is.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

fastmonza said:


> Yes her friends on toxic. She has surrounded herself with single mothers. Only way for me to find out if it's OM would probably be VAR that will go into the car today. She is definitely dreaming of greener grass hence the walk away wife syndrome to the tee.


Well there you go, she's following example and listening to her 2single" mother friends. "you can do better", "you deserve to be happy", "you deserve someone who doesn0't take you for granted"...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

fastmonza said:


> Yes her friends on toxic. She has surrounded herself with single mothers. Only way for me to find out if it's OM would probably be VAR that will go into the car today. She is definitely dreaming of greener grass hence the walk away wife syndrome to the tee.


She is NOT a WAW. She has given more than enough chances to you, and YOU chose to not pay attention. She ASKED YOU to go to counseling, and you did the same thing that MY ex did...blew it off, stating that things are not THAT BAD. You dismissed her concerns UNTIL NOW. So no, she is not a walk-away. You might as well face the fact that she is DONE, she is being wishy washy about moving forward because she doesnt want to be the b!tch. But she is going to have to be in order to end things, and then she is the bad guy for that too. She needs to put on her big girl panties and get on with ending this, and YOU need to detach, man up and let it end with your dignity intact. (Who knows, maybe when she sees you being strong and moving on with things, she may find a new respect or attraction for you.)


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Regretf said:


> Well there you go, she's following example and listening to her 2single" mother friends. "you can do better", "you deserve to be happy", "you deserve someone who doesn0't take you for granted"...


Are they TOXIC or are they RIGHT?


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> She is NOT a WAW. She has given more than enough chances to you, and YOU chose to not pay attention. She ASKED YOU to go to counseling, and you did the same thing that MY ex did...blew it off, stating that things are not THAT BAD. You dismissed her concerns UNTIL NOW. So no, she is not a walk-away. You might as well face the fact that she is DONE, she is being wishy washy about moving forward because she doesnt want to be the b!tch. But she is going to have to be in order to end things, and then she is the bad guy for that too. She needs to put on her big girl panties and get on with ending this, and YOU need to detach, man up and let it end with your dignity intact. (Who knows, maybe when she sees you being strong and moving on with things, she may find a new respect or attraction for you.)


Not to argue but it seems as though your not fully read up on WAW? If you were you would understand what men do in that situation when out of nowhere they are presented with something that their marriage is going down. I admit my mistakes and what I did wrong. You seem very bitter in your post. Care to share?


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> She is NOT a WAW. She has given more than enough chances to you, and YOU chose to not pay attention. She ASKED YOU to go to counseling, and you did the same thing that MY ex did...blew it off, stating that things are not THAT BAD. You dismissed her concerns UNTIL NOW. So no, she is not a walk-away. You might as well face the fact that she is DONE, she is being wishy washy about moving forward because she doesnt want to be the b!tch. But she is going to have to be in order to end things, and then she is the bad guy for that too. She needs to put on her big girl panties and get on with ending this, and YOU need to detach, man up and let it end with your dignity intact. (Who knows, maybe when she sees you being strong and moving on with things, she may find a new respect or attraction for you.)


Also if you read my org post you would know I didn't dismiss her feelings until now. A year ago when I found out about everything I then said we need to go to counseling. Even after she said she was still in this 100%. She refused!


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> Are they TOXIC or are they RIGHT?


His W is right in a lot of things. Yes he should have gone to counseling when she mentioned it. yes he should have listented to her. Yes he should have been more attentive and comunícate better what was happening to him regarding depression. But for one of her "friends" to say "get your roomate out", i mean come on. Things can be as bad as they are, but he's still her husband and father of her kids, you don't talk about the father of her kids like that, that to me is toxic.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

Regretf said:


> His W is right in a lot of things. Yes he should have gone to counseling when she mentioned it. yes he should have listented to her. Yes he should have been more attentive and comunícate better what was happening to him regarding depression. But for one of her "friends" to say "get your roomate out", i mean come on. Things can be as bad as they are, but he's still her husband and father of her kids, you don't talk about the father of her kids like that, that to me is toxic.


Thank you! I have my faults and if by some chance I get another chance here I would work everyday on my marriage! I just didn't know what I was doing and now with everything I have read I know exactly what I did. We all have our faults. Should I have went to counseling? Yes. Should she have had an EA? No. Did I contribute to that? Yes.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

fastmonza said:


> Thank you! I have my faults and if by some chance I get another chance here I would work everyday on my marriage! I just didn't know what I was doing and now with everything I have read I know exactly what I did. We all have our faults. Should I have went to counseling? Yes. Should she have had an EA? No. Did I contribute to that? Yes.


You don't know for shure if your W had an EA, she might as well had one and yes you did things that contributed to that, if it happend.

My sister told me something intersting yesterday because i was complaining about my M situation and downfall saying i should have done this, i should't have done that and she said "honey, M doesn't come with a guide to tell you what to do or not do in x or y situation". "you did the best you could with what you had"


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Read DayOne's thread. He is succeeding in winning his WAW back.

Read Kolors' thread. His WAW wanted to have sex with other men. Afterwards she claimed she didn't want D, but she did. She's the one who insisted on separation and the right to have sex without being accused of adultery. Kolors wanted to save his marriage. In the end he found an old girlfriend who was divorced and had kids. He is very happy with her now. His ex is angry that he didn't just let her have space.

Bagdon won his wife back. Very good thread.

I would VAR the car. Read about how to do it so you don't get caught.

Stop initiating relationship discussion. If she wants to divorce, get the do it yourself papers and get them all filled out. Better to hand them to her than sit and wait. But physically moving out. Don't do it.

Go to the gym and build yourself up. Dress well. Get new clothes. Do those projects around the house. Be active with the kids. Don't be sullen or depressed. Smile as if you were certain that your life is going to turn out well.

Stand up straight. Don't be wordy when you speak to her.

If you want to socialize with her, arrange for some activity, even if its a walk to get ice cream with the kids or rock climbing. Just tell you are going and that she is welcome. Something fun is going to happen with or without her.

Do you smoke? Drink?

How many times a week do you workout?


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

fastmonza said:


> Update: Last night I got to talk to her for about 10 minutes, not long at all. I brought up being in limbo and she basically said no green light (obviously) and that we might be in limbo for another week or two. She doesn't know how long it will take, which was then followed up with she doesn't know if she will ever have feeling for me again like she used to.
> 
> I asked if she would like to go hang out some time this week and she basically said no without saying no. She uses the words "doesn't feel comfortable". Same words for just about everything.
> 
> ...


Dude. You are PLAN B and you are supporting that. You are only serving to build her a bridge to her next life right now.

When a woman gets an idea in her head about where her future is, you can be sure she is going to be on that path for months or even years until reality sets in.

I think your ONLY only chance here to gain any respect from her (and respect yourself for goodness sakes) is to push her out into the REAL world and see what that looks like for a while.

Encourage her that is she wants to start a new life she should move out and get a job.

Being a single mum and working isn't much fun. That might be the only thing that will snap her out of the dream she is living in.

Be tough bro.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Read DayOne's thread. He is succeeding in winning his WAW back.
> 
> Read Kolors' thread. His WAW wanted to have sex with other men. Afterwards she claimed she didn't want D, but she did. She's the one who insisted on separation and the right to have sex without being accused of adultery. Kolors wanted to save his marriage. In the end he found an old girlfriend who was divorced and had kids. He is very happy with her now. His ex is angry that he didn't just let her have space.
> 
> ...


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

poida said:


> Dude. You are PLAN B and you are supporting that. You are only serving to build her a bridge to her next life right now.
> 
> *This is kind of how I feel. She can't do much right now between her job (weekends part time) and school. This summer will be much easier for her until Fall when school starts back up again.*
> 
> ...


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

Last night was kind of rough. I did go and get a SONY var and put it in the car. All setup. Won't get any data coming in until tomorrow though because she is home all day with the kids and I take the car. Tomorrow the data should start to flow if I setup everything correctly. 

Her mom put on pyramid scheme party (MLM) at our house last night. Her best friend came and at one point asked me how I was. GRRRR. Like you don't know, since your helping to cause this mess!! By the end of the night when everyone left, I just had to go compose myself. Told her I was going to get some air outside, went to the car, turned on some music, and cried my eyes out! It felt good because it has been a couple of weeks. Then went back in, told her goodnight, hit the sack, and was pretty much up all night after that because I had a horrible dream of her telling me she was having sex with another guy. Although just a dream it has me in a funk this morning. First time a negative dream about our marriage has presented itself. It's horrible. Feel's so real. It kind of confirms my gut feeling something is going on. I just feel that I am waiting around for her to figure something out and then she will drop the over completely, with no chance bomb. Instead of being vague and in limbo like right now.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

MLM is for losers.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> MLM is for losers.


Totally! I hate her mom wanted to try to get my neighbors to do this health crap. Nobody showed.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Originally Posted by poida View Post
Dude. You are PLAN B and you are supporting that. You are only serving to build her a bridge to her next life right now.

*This is kind of how I feel. She can't do much right now between her job (weekends part time) and school. This summer will be much easier for her until Fall when school starts back up again.*

_Seriously. Why do you even give a s**t!!! She treats you like a total piece of cr*p and you let her walk all over you. I'm not a harsh person at all. You really need to sack up. She wants a man with sack and the only respect you are going to get from here is if you look after YOUR needs and push hers aside. trust me, this is one situation where PUSHING HER away is going to help you no matter what. _

When a woman gets an idea in her head about where her future is, you can be sure she is going to be on that path for months or even years until reality sets in.

I think your ONLY only chance here to gain any respect from her (and respect yourself for goodness sakes) is to push her out into the REAL world and see what that looks like for a while.

*While this sounds good I don't think it will work in my case. First she not I will leave the house. She has a job and get's a lot of child support from previous marriage. She is pretty much in the same position as me. Whoever get's the house, wins. She does not want to sell no matter what at this point. The other reason this won't work is because this is why she want's to leave. Doesn't think I support her enough with the kids, duties, school, etc. I admit I have not excelled her. My wife has a very strong work ethic which is hard to match and over the years I kind of gave up trying to match her. Which lead to me pretty much shutting down. The last few weeks however, I have done almost everything around the house after working 9+ hours a day. I am helping with everything. Next is to start some more projects. *

_Again, why are you making excuses for her? Tough sh*t. Who cares what she wants. Who cares if she wants the house. SHE ISN'T GOING TO GET IT. You need to stop this rubbish before you get walked all over in a divorce. Take action now. Tell her that if she doesn't want to be with you, then it is OVER, hit her with divorce papers and tell her to move out. Tell her that you are selling the house effective immediately. You need to take drastic action. She is used to getting her way and she is blo*dy well expecting to get EXACTLY her way this time. Have NO DOUBT, you will find she is screwing another guy and planning another life. It has been proven over and over and over on this web site. _

Encourage her that is she wants to start a new life she should move out and get a job.

Being a single mum and working isn't much fun. That might be the only thing that will snap her out of the dream she is living in.

*Again, she think's it will be much better. Since she doesn't feel like I contribute at all her mindset is that her life will be no different without me.*

_Again, WHO CARES!!! She doesn't want to be with you because you are SOFT. If she thinks her life will be no different, then show her you are a man, serve papers, kick her out, sell all assets and go get on with your life. You can't "nice" her back. Doing this is the ONLY chance you have of snapping her out of her stupid dream land and gaining some respect. I am telling you, being kicked out and living alone is a serious change and no matter what she says, it will change her perspective. 
And by the way, do you know why she thinks her life will be no different, because it won't. She is expecting to keep the house and expecting you to chase her for years. _

Tough love brother. You have to take action and take it RIGHT NOW. Get on with it.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

I guess by your lack of response that tough love was too much to handle? 

I've been there bro. It takes time to put your own needs first again.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

How are you holding up?


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

poida said:


> I guess by your lack of response that tough love was too much to handle?
> 
> I've been there bro. It takes time to put your own needs first again.


No I got busy yesterday. 

Update: VAR worked but I think the mic is too sensitive (default is medium) because when driving it picked up to much road noise or engine, or something. She talked to her brother and was telling him crap saying she is frustrated that now I am helping out more and doing things around the house and want to be involved. She says she doesn't understand why she has to come to divorce to wake me up (she has never outright told me she want's a divorce but uses the word with him). She did try to make a couple other calls but nobody answered so she listened to music. Will gather more data this weekend as she goes to work. Need to figure out the mic issue cause at times I couldn't make out what she was saying. Also going to play with Audacity today to see if I can clean it up a bit.

I am holding up ok I guess. Day by day. After listening to her conversation with her brother it really pissed me off. I really think she has a problem lying. Telling me one thing and tells everyone else something else. It just makes me go why? Why am I even trying? 



> Again, why are you making excuses for her? Tough sh*t. Who cares what she wants. Who cares if she wants the house. SHE ISN'T GOING TO GET IT. You need to stop this rubbish before you get walked all over in a divorce. Take action now. Tell her that if she doesn't want to be with you, then it is OVER, hit her with divorce papers and tell her to move out. Tell her that you are selling the house effective immediately. You need to take drastic action. She is used to getting her way and she is blo*dy well expecting to get EXACTLY her way this time. Have NO DOUBT, you will find she is screwing another guy and planning another life. It has been proven over and over and over on this web site.


The only thing stopping me from this, is the fact that this is exactly what she wants. She wants me to do everything, and by doing the opposite of what she thinks I am going to do is getting to her. Also it is 100% clear that she will not move out, and same goes for me. 



> Again, WHO CARES!!! She doesn't want to be with you because you are SOFT. If she thinks her life will be no different, then show her you are a man, serve papers, kick her out, sell all assets and go get on with your life. You can't "nice" her back. Doing this is the ONLY chance you have of snapping her out of her stupid dream land and gaining some respect. I am telling you, being kicked out and living alone is a serious change and no matter what she says, it will change her perspective.
> And by the way, do you know why she thinks her life will be no different, because it won't. She is expecting to keep the house and expecting you to chase her for years.


Your right. I am beginning to think I can't nice her back even though helping out and doing things I have never done are bugging her. I am not chasing her. She is frustrated that I choose to change now. Honestly I am just going to keep it up because if or when were done I will have to do dishes, clean up, watch kids, work on projects, get a life, etc. So I am doing those things NOW to better myself! I wish I could kick her out or she would go at this point but since that's not going to happen I am going to show her, whether it helps or not, that I am going to be a better person and have a better life. It's all for me. I hope she chooses to come along the ride again, but I really don't think she will. 

Other than that I am hitting the gym again tonight after work. 3rd time this week. It feels really good and just feels like an outlet. 

I was going to buy a new motorcycle this spring (upgrade to bigger bike) and still want to. Thoughts on that? I have been saving up for the past year and just feel like it would be a confidence builder since it was already my plan. Not worried about losing it in a divorce or anything like that.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

fastmonza said:


> No I got busy yesterday.
> 
> Update: VAR worked but I think the mic is too sensitive (default is medium) because when driving it picked up to much road noise or engine, or something. She talked to her brother and was telling him crap saying she is frustrated that now I am helping out more and doing things around the house and want to be involved. She says she doesn't understand why she has to come to divorce to wake me up (she has never outright told me she want's a divorce but uses the word with him). She did try to make a couple other calls but nobody answered so she listened to music. Will gather more data this weekend as she goes to work. Need to figure out the mic issue cause at times I couldn't make out what she was saying. Also going to play with Audacity today to see if I can clean it up a bit.
> 
> ...


About the bike, go for it. it's your life and you deserve it.

You have been given great advice here. Be tough but don't be an a$$hole. one person gave me an advice as i'm sort of in your situation but out of the house. "be the best versión of yourself that you can be, make it hard for her to leave a man like you".

No you can't nice her back, if that happens she has to decide to do that on her own. You can't fix her, you can only fix yourself for you and your kids, in the long run you'll end up being a better man,if she comes around or not, you'll still have you, always. And your kids of course.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You already have a bike.

Put your time into working out. That will change your life more that a new machine.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

>>get the bike!!<<


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you read mmslp yet linked to below?


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> You already have a bike.
> 
> Put your time into working out. That will change your life more that a new machine.


Already doing this.



> >>get the bike!!<<


BIKE it is! In summer I actually ride everyday to work because I live far away so the bike for me is not just a toy. The bike I have now is underpowered and kind of draining on the freeway, hence I have been saving up to replace it. I was just wondering if this is something I talk to her about now? Money is still the same accounts, no change there yet. 



> Have you read mmslp yet linked to below?


How will this help at this point? I can't even put an arm on her. All physical contact has been removed completely. I have tried to just touch her arm in a natural conversation motion a couple times and she didn't even like that. At this point I don't think anything will work to re-introduce any physical contact. Funny thing the physical contact stopped on d-day when she decided she doesn't want this anymore. Then she immediately stopped all the physical contact. Even though a lot of signs point to an AFFAIR I really don't think it's happening. I think emotionally (she has never been an emotional person) and mentally she is just gone and can't come back.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She needs to see that you are ready to move on.

Cool about the bike. Don't ask her permission.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

UPDATE: So Friday night came around and after she took a shower something just came about me.

MAN UP!

I sat her down and told her that I am not going to go through indefinite limbo. That we need to be working toward something. Either fixing our marriage or not. Basically laid out if she want's the greener grass then theres the door and she can go for it. She basically said she still doesn't want us even though she can see some changes in me. I said fine then suck it up and get on with your life! I made it very clear I would like to continue a life with her, and then I told her by no means will I let her treat me like crap anymore. I will not be a doormat. I told her she will have my respect as a husband and I will do whatever work it takes to make things right but that I will not do it myself. I told her even baby steps at this point would be ok, but she is going to have to give something. I told her that I am not going to sleep in the same bed and not even be able to touch her, or touch her arm if we are close and talking. Told her that I will not help build her bridge to a new life and theres the door to get started on it. She obviously refused. It was not a MEAN conversation and I was not being and [email protected] 

We had to cut off the conversation cause she needed to get up early for school (clinical at a hospital). An amazing thing happened when we went to bed. SHE CRIED! Oh my heck, there is a human in there?? EMOTION?

On her way to school she text me and said all she ever wanted to feel was loved and important to me. That she mattered. She didn't feel those things so she shutdown. She said inside she hoped I would have said something when she was crying. What am I supposed to say? I can't talk to you and you won't let me touch you! She said she doesn't want freedom as much as respect, partnership, understanding, and feeling love. She says that I am right her heart is hardened and that it has taken a long time for that to happen and cant change in 2 weeks. She says she made a baby step last week by sitting in limbo and see how things went. She feels like I don't see that. Well duh! You can see how things go or if things will get better when you give nothing in return at all. Makes me feel like I am being used. She says sometimes she has a lot to say but doesn't feel like the way we communicate facilitates that. Yeah no crap. All of our problems stem from bad communication. She said this is why she shut's down. 

I was amazed at these messages. Nowhere did she say she want's out, yet the night before she basically said nothing has changed for her. I messaged her back and just said thank you for the messages and that we can talk about it later (stuff like this imo needs to be in person cause text is so impersonal). Hope your having a good day at clinical. 

When she got home last night she was very tired from a 13 hour day (non paid in our state). She basically feel asleep after the kids went to bed so I was not able to address the text from the morning. Then this morning she had to get up and go to work. 

By the way all of where she has been is verified with GPS and VAR to this point, and has uncovered nothing, except the fact she talks to everyone else about our relationship.

My guess is when we talk about this text tonight after kids go to bed, she will have another change of heart and say she is still done with this. I am getting to the point that I just don't care. The more I work on myself, the better I feel. My feelings are strong that I want a life with her but I am started to get it, that I will not compromise myself for her. Especially right now when she won't let me in at all.

Also she forgot something for work that she will need later today. She text me (not asking if I would bring it) that she did. I told her I am taking the kids to church this morning and her response was that I have never done that. Which is true but today will be the first of a lot of things in my life!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Both of you were at fault in the past, poor communication

the difference in long term M that make it is, the past has

to be put there.... in the past. They have to be brought up

to do so. Always keep the line of communication open but

keep working on you. The first step to "walking into the light"

is to admit and accept you had POS tendencies. Work on those

and correct them. Two outcomes.... W sees you are making 

strides to improve or you are improving yourself for someone 

you have yet to meet. Personally.... I hope you and her work things out.


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## fastmonza (Mar 15, 2015)

Chuck71 said:


> Both of you were at fault in the past, poor communication
> 
> the difference in long term M that make it is, the past has
> 
> ...


I hope so too!

As far as an update, my last post pretty much still stands. Kind of right back to limbo. She is talking to me a little bit more about herself, well school that is. I don't read much into it. Communication from me is open and I listen to her. 

It's hard because while patience is important, I just don't know if she will come around someday. Wish I could crack her wall a little bit.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Patience brings more to you than you realize

work on YOU. the rest fall where they may


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## SingleDadof2 (Mar 9, 2015)

fastmonza said:


> UPDATE: So Friday night came around and after she took a shower something just came about me.
> 
> MAN UP!
> 
> ...



I'm proud of you Fast! This was the type of conversation that was needed. I know a later post indicates you still feel in limbo, but according to this it seems pretty clear. I wouldn't say jump to divorce but a separation could be good for the both of you. Give you space to figure out if you really want her, and give her space to figure out if she truly wants out. If you're not moving forward being at a standstill is just as bad as moving backward.


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