# He wants a parade for everything



## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

3 of our 6 outside spigots have been broken for YEARS and I've lost track of how many times I've told my spouse about them. One of them keeps getting broken because he has ran it over 3 times. I love how he says "people need to stop hitting it." I keep the outside water valve shut off so the pressure tank doesn't working itself to death.

He is finally out fixing them. He started a garden and now realized how much of a pain it is to get stuff done, having to drag hoses all over God's creation. I can hear him cussing from inside the house, and I feel bad for his adult son, who is helping. He also makes it a point to come tell me when one is done with each one, and has complained about going to the local hardware store 2 times. 2 TIMES!! Its less than a 5 minute drive away. He is fixing the last one now.

I have refused to hire a plumber for such simple repairs, and I detest doing plumbing work myself. He can plumb a whole house if need be, and did replace the well recently with help. He is capable. But now that he needs a spigot for his beans, its super important to fix them.

I'm trying to be grateful, but I don't expect a parade when I do stuff (dump runs, replacing the sump pump, gutter work, caulking between the siding and foundation, cleaning the stove pipe, installing a new dishwasher, dryer vent, ect, ect). I also 99% of all domestic duties. We both work.

But he is going to come in like he just conquered Rome and expect a monument be built in his honor, as he always does when he does anything. I want so badly to scream "FINALLY!" but then he will huff, puff, and pout and not want to work on any of the other things that need done around here.

Do I really need to give him a bunch of gratitude when he should have done these things 2 years ago?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Well whatever you do just remember this. 
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Nope, you don't need to give him a parade. He's an adult and should take responsibility for his own home and property.

Have you ever sat him down and told him that all this is not ok?

I would be tempted to video him out there cursing and complaining. Then play it back to him so he could see what his actions look like. 

Have you ever told him that it's unacceptable for him to not do his share of housework & chores?

If he keeps running over the spigot, put a pile of bricks or logs in front of it. He's not going to run over something like that.

How long have the two of you been married?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Why not say something like "Thanks for doing that, but you didn't say much when I caulked the foundation."? Or "Thanks for fixing it, but to be fair, you're the one who drove over it."

Of course if he did thank you a whole bunch when you did those things, then he is being fair, he just has a different style.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> Well whatever you do just remember this.
> You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.


At least for fruit flies, apple cider vinegar is a superior bait to honey.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Nope, you don't need to give him a parade. He's an adult and should take responsibility for his own home and property.
> 
> Have you ever sat him down and told him that all this is not ok?
> 
> ...


10 years last August. And he has been notified of his laziness when it comes to housework. I have 3 choices (1) Just do it, (2) protest and live in filth, (3) listen to him whine and ***** or stomp around if he has to do something. I ignore it because I'm not going to endorse that behavior. He pays his mom to do his laundry because I don't anymore.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

SpinyNorman said:


> Of course if he did thank you a whole bunch when you did those things, then he is being fair, he just has a different style.


Nope. I got the satisfaction of knowing the house was maintained and that yellow jackets couldn't make a nest there anymore.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SpinyNorman said:


> Why not say something like "Thanks for doing that, but you didn't say much when I caulked the foundation."? Or "Thanks for fixing it, but to be fair, you're the one who drove over it."
> 
> Of course if he did thank you a whole bunch when you did those things, then he is being fair, he just has a different style.


I think that putting the 'but clause' in there would only widen the divide. Just thinking him but making no more out of it than that.

Unless of course she wants to rent some elephants, float and bands to give him a parade...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> 10 years last August. And he has been notified of his laziness when it comes to housework. I have 3 choices (1) Just do it, (2) protest and live in filth, (3) listen to him whine and *** or stomp around if he has to do something. I ignore it because I'm not going to endorse that behavior. He pays his mom to do his laundry because I don't anymore.


Good for you for not doing his laundry. Shame on his mother for doing it (unless she's so poor that she needs the money to pay rent and buy food.  )

Are you any where near thinking of divorce over this and/or other things in the relationship? You don't seem to be. Just wondering because your answer to this could make a difference in the input you get.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

My husband can be a shocking procrastinator. "Yep, I'll do it on the weekend". Great honey, which one?

Now, I tell him once what needs fixing/installing, I ask when he thinks he can do it and if it doesn't get done I pay someone to come do it. I've got enough on my plate already, he doesn't like paying people to do it so he's pretty good now, most of the time.

Or, I say "Hon, for 3,457th time this week, could you please..." lol.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

So he did something that you freely admit that you detest and refuse to do? I don't see your problem, at all.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> So he did something that you freely admit that you detest and refuse to do? I don't see your problem, at all.


Did you not read the thread?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Did you not read the thread?


yes and i stand by my reply.


Cup of Tea said:


> -snip-
> I have refused to hire a plumber for such simple repairs, and I detest doing plumbing work myself. He can plumb a whole house if need be, and did replace the well recently with help. He is capable. But now that he needs a spigot for his beans, its super important to fix them.
> -snip-
> Do I really need to give him a bunch of gratitude when he should have done these things 2 years ago?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

> I have refused to hire a plumber for such simple repairs, and I detest doing plumbing work myself.


Interesting.



> I want so badly to scream "FINALLY!"


Again, interesting.



> And he has been notified of his laziness when it comes to housework.


... And that’s where I think the dynamic has been confirmed.

Listen. You’re right that you work hard. It’s crazy that he pays his mom to do his laundry. But some of this other stuff... I’m not sure. You seem to be on a pretty high horse yourself, here.

When I do stuff I don’t want to do, I curse a mean streak. It’s part of my process. It’s how I work things out. And when I do something I probably should have already have known how to do, but I figured it out, I’m like a goofy kid showing off to his mom to my wife. I want her to be proud of me.

Sounds like you work hard. You clearly think he doesn’t. But you also clearly don’t respect your husband at all. Maybe you’re totally right and maybe he doesn’t deserve your respect. But unless you’re willing to divorce him, you might want to start by looking at your own role in this dynamic, too.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> So he did something that you freely admit that you detest and refuse to do? I don't see your problem, at all.





EleGirl said:


> Good for you for not doing his laundry. Shame on his mother for doing it (unless she's so poor that she needs the money to pay rent and buy food.  )
> 
> Are you any where near thinking of divorce over this and/or other things in the relationship? You don't seem to be. Just wondering because your answer to this could make a difference in the input you get.


His mother is a whole other story. 😜

There are days I think: if I provide and do most everything needed for the family what do I need a husband for? But then he chops a whole cord of wood or does something husbandly, and I think I may as well keep him. I do really love the guy..
But in all reality, if we listed out all the things we've done in the last year, my list would be miles long, and his would be quite short. I want for very little, and receive even less. I ask for simple things like a faucet without duct tape on it. (Fun fact... its had duct tape on it for a year now). I did get him to fix the bathroom fan recently. I did thank him sincerely, and I don't have to bleach the whole bathroom now!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Well I must admit that I've never paid my mother to do my laundry. But, then again, I'm better at it than she is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> Well I must admit that I've never paid my mother to do my laundry. But, then again, I'm better at it than she is.


LOL... .I'm a smart mother. I taught my children to do their own laundry when they were 10 years old. I never had to do it again.. .they are in their 30's now. Teach your children how to take care of themselves.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> His mother is a whole other story. 😜
> 
> There are days I think: if I provide and do most everything needed for the family what do I need a husband for? But then he chops a whole cord of wood or does something husbandly, and I think I may as well keep him. I do really love the guy..
> 
> But in all reality, if we listed out all the things we've done in the last year, my list would be miles long, and his would be quite short. I want for very little, and receive even less. I ask for simple things like a faucet without duct tape on it. (Fun fact... its had duct tape on it for a year now). I did get him to fix the bathroom fan recently. I did thank him sincerely, and I don't have to bleach the whole bathroom now!


I assume he has a full time job, is that right?

Do you also have a job (outside the home)?


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> I assume he has a full time job, is that right?
> 
> Do you also have a job (outside the home)?


We both work full time outside the home. Both management jobs sprinkled with labor tasks here and there


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> We both work full time outside the home. Both management jobs sprinkled with labor tasks here and there


So you both work full time, but you do the majority of household cores, etc. Is that right?

What percentage of chores around the house would you say he does?


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> LOL... .I'm a smart mother. I taught my children to do their own laundry when they were 10 years old. I never had to do it again.. .they are in their 30's now. Teach your children how to take care of themselves.





EleGirl said:


> So you both work full time, but you do the majority of household cores, etc. Is that right?
> 
> What percentage of chores around the house would you say he does?


Myself and our 16yo and 7yo daughters do 99%. His 1% is packing his own lunches, and sometimes taking his mountain of laundry to the laundry room. But most of the time his mom takes care of it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> Myself and our 16yo and 7yo daughters do 99%. His 1% is packing his own lunches, and sometimes taking his mountain of laundry to the laundry room. But most of the time his mom takes care of it.


Does his mom live with you?

Assuming he woks about as many hours a week as you do and he's not outside doing yard work when he's not at work, then his behavior is unacceptable.

What does he do while you are cooking, cleaning, etc?


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Does his mom live with you?
> 
> Assuming he woks about as many hours a week as you do and he's not outside doing yard work when he's not at work, then his behavior is unacceptable.
> 
> What does he do while you are cooking, cleaning, etc?


"The Clan" live about 2 miles away. His brothers and nephew live down there, too and there's lots of drama, so his mom and dad come for the peace, my cooking, and WiFi. 

Our hours are pretty steady. He will have the occasional long, hard day but they are predictable. He has a slightly longer commute, but I am on my feet most of the time..

He is typically watching TV and playing on his phone when he is home. I spend a fair amount of time goofing off on my phone, too, but still get things done. Its very rare that I don't make 10k steps/day.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> "The Clan" live about 2 miles away. His brothers and nephew live down there, too and there's lots of drama, so his mom and dad come for the peace, my cooking, and WiFi.
> 
> Our hours are pretty steady. He will have the occasional long, hard day but they are predictable. He has a slightly longer commute, but I am on my feet most of the time..
> 
> He is typically watching TV and playing on his phone when he is home. I spend a fair amount of time goofing off on my phone, too, but still get things done. Its very rare that I don't make 10k steps/day.


You know that him slacking off is unfair to you. But he gets away with it, so he has no motivation to change.

When i first married, I talked to my husband about dividing up chores. When it came to cleaning the toilet he said with indignation, "I do not do toilets". I said nothing and then did the only reasonable thing. I hired someone to clean the entire house weekly. He complained about the money spent but when I asked about splitting chores he stopped complaining. 

Just a thought.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> But he is going to come in like he just conquered Rome and expect a monument be built in his honor, as he always does when he does anything.


I gotta ask... did he come in and behave as predicted?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Quick side note: love your username... I need to put the kettle on.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

It seems like there's more to this situation than meets the eye.

Is he a good father, husband, the two teenage daughters well adjusted?
(as much as teenagers can be anyway).

Is he generally kind and courteous to you and the family as a whole? No glaring being a butthole to everyone all the time or over the line?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> When i first married, I talked to my husband about dividing up chores. When it came to cleaning the toilet he said with indignation, "I do not do toilets". I said nothing and then did the only reasonable thing. I hired someone to clean the entire house weekly. He complained about the money spent but when I asked about splitting chores he stopped complaining.


Chiming in with another experience, when Batman and I first moved in together, I left him a chores list. When I got home, he expressed that wasn't the way to be with him and that if I left a chores list for him again, he'd ignore it / throw it away. The gist was about him being an adult or something. And to-do lists in that sense, do not occur in the bat-cave, and the stuff gets done between us. A few days ago I had a 'moment' (ahem) as I couldn't find the bloody phone chargers anywhere; grumbling about him moving them and such. And like a kettle, the steam of my frustration emerged, then quickly dissipated. He did apply some humor to the situation. Maybe you could try that with your husband when he's grumbling. Granted, you gotta have the right delivery and with calm.

Anyway, I'd kinda forgotten about it until I got home from work and found he'd installed USB-wall sockets so that I wouldn't need to look for the plug-in chargers again... The other week, he was preparing to have a cigar outside and I suggested a certain chair, so that he wouldn't sit on the other seats where the dog had enjoyed her bone and made a right mess. I mentioned in passing that I needed to clean them... Well, he'd also washed the seat covers which I had yet to do... phone charger situation sorted, seat covers cleaned, dinner cooked... I admit that I absolutely threw him a verbal parade! He said it wasn't a big deal. To me, it actually was.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> But he is going to come in like he just conquered Rome and expect a monument be built in his honor, as he always does when he does anything. I want so badly to scream "FINALLY!" but then he will huff, puff, and pout and not want to work on any of the other things that need done around here.


The imbalance has been created through you both. With just the above, personality plays a part... you mentioned that you're in management and no doubt experience people in your team who are motivated differently, and perhaps have different needs in terms of support and acknowledgement. So while your home-life is not work, my intention is to highlight that you and your husband are wired differently, perhaps with different motivations, different needs with support or acknowledgement - and each play a role within this dynamic.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

heartsbeating said:


> Chiming in with another experience, when Batman and I first moved in together, I left him a chores list. When I got home, he expressed that wasn't the way to be with him and that if I left a chores list for him again, he'd ignore it / throw it away. The gist was about him being an adult or something. And to-do lists in that sense, do not occur in the bat-cave, and the stuff gets done between us. A few days ago I had a 'moment' (ahem) as I couldn't find the bloody phone chargers anywhere; grumbling about him moving them and such. And like a kettle, the steam of my frustration emerged, then quickly dissipated. He did apply some humor to the situation. Maybe you could try that with your husband when he's grumbling. Granted, you gotta have the right delivery and with calm.
> 
> Anyway, I'd kinda forgotten about it until I got home from work and found he'd installed USB-wall sockets so that I wouldn't need to look for the plug-in chargers again... The other week, he was preparing to have a cigar outside and I suggested a certain chair, so that he wouldn't sit on the other seats where the dog had enjoyed her bone and made a right mess. I mentioned in passing that I needed to clean them... Well, he'd also washed the seat covers which I had yet to do... phone charger situation sorted, seat covers cleaned, dinner cooked... I admit that I absolutely threw him a verbal parade! He said it wasn't a big deal. To me, it actually was.


Yay! Bilateral chore negotiation, humor, volunteerism, appreciation. Sounds like you have a good thing going, thanks for sharing.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

heartsbeating said:


> I gotta ask... did he come in and behave as predicted?


Oh yea and I tried not to laugh. He reiterated the trips to the hardware store, how he had to dig huge holes, how much it all cost, and what a pain in the butt it all was. And of course his beans. After like half an hour, he got tired of talking and flopped on the couch for the rest of the evening. 

I did regard that its nice to have them all fixed. And now I need to find something nice-looking so to mark that one he keeps running over. Our driveway is huge, but that spigot is like a magnet.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Cup of Tea said:


> Oh yea and I tried not to laugh. He reiterated the trips to the hardware store, how he had to dig huge holes, how much it all cost, and what a pain in the butt it all was. And of course his beans. After like half an hour, he got tired of talking and flopped on the couch for the rest of the evening.
> 
> I did regard that its nice to have them all fixed. And now I need to find something nice-looking so to mark that one he keeps running over. Our driveway is huge, but that spigot is like a magnet.


Get a driveway marker and put it next to the spigot. Cheap and effective.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

SpinyNorman said:


> Yay! Bilateral chore negotiation, humor, volunteerism, appreciation. Sounds like you have a good thing going, thanks for sharing.


What we do is have "pink" jobs and "blue" jobs. We tried to optimize for the jobs that we don't hate.

The key is that we reached an agreement that was fair and equitable for us... and we didn't get to interfere. That last part is a really big deal for us - we're both naturally 'take charge' sort of people. So when I'm doing my blue jobs, they're mine. I'm doing them my way, according to my schedule, and they're done when I say they're done.

I can ask my wife for help with my blue jobs - and if she says yes, well, I'm still in charge. And vice versa, of course.

And we leave each other to them. We can ask each other to do something, or ask them to do it a certain way, but not both.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It seems like there's more to this situation than meets the eye.
> 
> Is he a good father, husband, the two teenage daughters well adjusted?
> (as much as teenagers can be anyway).
> ...


He is a good provider and a stellar, productice, respected employee. 

At home, he's a nop-notch couch potato, but will do big things every now and then. 

Most of his interactions with the teen are asking her to go get him stuff, and nagging her about chores, grades, and her horses. She does what she's told, but lets his nagging roll off her shoulders. She is an honor roll student, keeps the barn and her room spotless, and is the most non-dramamtic teenage girl I've ever met. She can't wait to drive her truck and get a part time job. He and the littler one get along like peanut butter and jelly. He tells them he loves them every night before bed. 

I wouldn't really describe Mister and kind or courteous. His "kindness" consists of ordering pizza occasionally, and asking what movie or show the girls want to watch. I can't think of anything courteous he has done in recent memory.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cup of Tea said:


> I'm trying to be grateful, but I don't expect a parade when I do stuff (dump runs, replacing the sump pump, gutter work, caulking between the siding and foundation, cleaning the stove pipe, installing a new dishwasher, dryer vent, ect, ect). I also 99% of all domestic duties. We both work.


Unless you are regaling him with your stories of life in the trenches, he has no way to appreciate your contributions. So, start being very, very detailed with your comments about your contributions (granted - for get'er done people, that is a pain in the butt). He may immediately recognize his own behavior or he may dismiss your contributions. But, you will find a way to work thru this.

I think he knows he's a slacker and that's why he carries on like a put-upon teen.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cup of Tea said:


> Myself and our 16yo and 7yo daughters do 99%. His 1% is packing his own lunches, and sometimes taking his mountain of laundry to the laundry room. But most of the time his mom takes care of it.


Does he think that's a fair assessment and a fair workload distribution?


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

Marduk said:


> Does he think that's a fair assessment and a fair workload distribution?


I've asked those kinds of questions before, but he will deflect and just bring up things I haven't done, or ask why the girls can't do it. When pushed, I get an attitude. 

Right after school was let out, he complained that the house wasn't clean when he got home and the girls should be doing more chores since they are home. I called a meeting, and the girls and I hashed out a simple chore list, complete with a sticker chart. I added my own daily stuff as well, plus some little things to do daily to accomplish my goals. All right in front of Mister, who stayed quiet for the rest of the night.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cup of Tea said:


> I've asked those kinds of questions before, but he will deflect and just bring up things I haven't done, or ask why the girls can't do it. When pushed, I get an attitude.
> 
> Right after school was let out, he complained that the house wasn't clean when he got home and the girls should be doing more chores since they are home. I called a meeting, and the girls and I hashed out a simple chore list, complete with a sticker chart. I added my own daily stuff as well, plus some little things to do daily to accomplish my goals. All right in front of Mister, who stayed quiet for the rest of the night.


What if you asked it in a yes/no closed way? "Do you think you do enough around here?"

If he says something like "Well, the girls could do more," you just say "that's not what I'm asking. Yes or no - do you think you do enough around here?"

I suspect he will eventually say that he thinks he does more than enough for whatever reason. And that's kind of the heart of the issue here, right? It's like quitting smoking - you don't really quit until you decide that you want to quit. He hasn't decided that he wants to do more.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

So he packs his own lunches, asks the girls what they want to watch on tv sometimes, doesn't ask you to do his laundry, kids have at least one or more horses, a truck, I'd think he helps his daughters now and then, is a good provider, stellar and productive employee.

He's NOT; a mean spirited, vengeful, rude and ugly, harsh, wife beater, screamer, yeller, or axe-murderer, philanderer, gambler, troublemaking 24hrs a day guy. And he's quite a few years of being known to not being an axe-murderer .

Now I'm on your side, bearing in mind we are hearing but one side of things but, being a H myself, I do know there are two sides every time.

I'm on your side. Just throwing out there it sounds like a better relationship than many, and there seems to be no shortage of fertile ground for either of you to plant seeds of marriage improvements, starting from a reasonably good position.

You may have to plant them but it sounds like he's not too bad of an old field mule to be hitched in a harness with. It sounds like he's alway pulling in the general right direction to help the farm, maybe as an analogy.

Or if he gets it in his head that he's pulling in circles he just may stop.

My point being you said you can't remember the last time he was courteous. 

That might be a little untrue or ?


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Unless you are regaling him with your stories of life in the trenches, he has no way to appreciate your contributions. So, start being very, very detailed with your comments about your contributions (granted - for get'er done people, that is a pain in the butt). He may immediately recognize his own behavior or he may dismiss your contributions. But, you will find a way to work thru this.
> 
> I think he knows he's a slacker and that's why he carries on like a put-upon teen.


 Blondilocks, you are absolutely right. I am a get'er done kind of person 100%. Things need done, I do them, then its off to the next thing. 
I know he knows. Its not rocket science, but maybe I need to get some techniques on dealing with stubborn teen boys!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cup of Tea said:


> Blondilocks, you are absolutely right. I am a get'er done kind of person 100%. Things need done, I do them, then its off to the next thing.
> I know he knows. Its not rocket science, but maybe I need to get some techniques on dealing with stubborn teen boys!


The most common argument I have with my wife is that she's never satisfied with anything. Meaning she'll want me to do something, I'll go do it, then bam, she'll want something else.

It frustrates me to no end, because I don't exist just to give her things or do things for her.

It gets amplified, because in addition to telling me what she wants me to do, she'll tell me how she wants it done, how good I've done it in the past, and how I can improve doing it in the future.

We're past all that now by agreeing to each have our own 'domains' - but what it took was a recognition that she was that way. And I'm that way, too. We're both type A driven kind of people. And organized. And know what we want.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> Chiming in with another experience, when Batman and I first moved in together, I left him a chores list. When I got home, he expressed that wasn't the way to be with him and that if I left a chores list for him again, he'd ignore it / throw it away. The gist was about him being an adult or something. And to-do lists in that sense, do not occur in the bat-cave, and the stuff gets done between us. A few days ago I had a 'moment' (ahem) as I couldn't find the bloody phone chargers anywhere; grumbling about him moving them and such. And like a kettle, the steam of my frustration emerged, then quickly dissipated. He did apply some humor to the situation. Maybe you could try that with your husband when he's grumbling. Granted, you gotta have the right delivery and with calm.
> 
> Anyway, I'd kinda forgotten about it until I got home from work and found he'd installed USB-wall sockets so that I wouldn't need to look for the plug-in chargers again... The other week, he was preparing to have a cigar outside and I suggested a certain chair, so that he wouldn't sit on the other seats where the dog had enjoyed her bone and made a right mess. I mentioned in passing that I needed to clean them... Well, he'd also washed the seat covers which I had yet to do... phone charger situation sorted, seat covers cleaned, dinner cooked... I admit that I absolutely threw him a verbal parade! He said it wasn't a big deal. To me, it actually was.


Your husband sounds like a wonderful man.

Sadly, my husband did not have reacted in such a good manner. He actually refused to do any household chores. Once in a blue moon he'd so some yard work. I was doing all of the housework and yard work. We both had full time jobs that were very similar. The only reason I had the 'lets split chores' talk with him was because I was spending weekends cleaning house, doing yard work, and shopping. He spent his weekends out with friends, taking fun trips, etc.

Very different situations.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SpinyNorman said:


> Yay! Bilateral chore negotiation, humor, volunteerism, appreciation. Sounds like you have a good thing going, thanks for sharing.


Keep in mind that bilateral chore negotiation only works when both parties are willing to negotiate. It does not work with some.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Keep in mind that bilateral chore negotiation only works when both parties are willing to negotiate. It does not work with some.


I think it starts with getting on the same page regarding equality and expectations. He won't negotiate in good faith for something he just doesn't want to do.

And I have a sneaking suspicion here that he may either feel like he's doing more in ways she doesn't recognize, or that he feels he can never succeed no matter what he does, so he's given up. Not that either of those are necessarily true, but perception is reality.

And until you solve that, you'll be in a stalemate.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Marduk said:


> I think it starts with getting on the same page regarding equality and expectations. He won't negotiate in good faith for something he just doesn't want to do.
> 
> And I have a sneaking suspicion here that he may either feel like he's doing more in ways she doesn't recognize, or that he feels he can never succeed no matter what he does, so he's given up. Not that either of those are necessarily true, but perception is reality.
> 
> And until you solve that, you'll be in a stalemate.


Without him coming here with his side of things, we don't really know.

However, we should probably recognize that while the scenarios you suggest, here actually are people (both male and female) who feel entitled and are more than willing to push most home chore responsibilities onto their spouse. It's often done in a way that is not confrontational at all. They are just happy to not do much around the house/yard, etc.

ETA: How does one get on the same page regarding equality and expectations with someone who does not believe that equality in a relationship is something they care about?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Without him coming here with his side of things, we don't really know.
> 
> However, we should probably recognize that while the scenarios you suggest, here actually are people (both male and female) who feel entitled and are more than willing to push most home chore responsibilities onto their spouse. It's often done in a way that is not confrontational at all. They are just happy to not do much around the house/yard, etc.
> 
> ETA: How does one get on the same page regarding equality and expectations with someone who does not believe that equality in a relationship is something they care about?


Maybe he doesn't care about equality - and if so that's something that they can at least come to an 'agree to disagree' situation about.

My point is he seems lazy and entitled. On the flip side she seems like she wants to be the boss. Those two things don't really go together.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Marduk said:


> Maybe he doesn't care about equality - and if so that's something that they can at least come to an 'agree to disagree' situation about.
> 
> My point is he seems lazy and entitled. On the flip side she seems like she wants to be the boss. Those two things don't really go together.


No, they don't go together unless she she goes on being boss and he goes on being his lazy self and neither really care about that.

Very often, when someone like the OP looks like they want to be the boss is because their partner was very happy to let them do all the work. So they become 'in charge' of everything. It's a self-feeding cycle. There is a way to break out of it, but it would take some cleaver moves on her part and of course once again, she would have to put in all the effort.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I just wish that there was some place on TAM where men could talk about Life's dilemmas without being harangued about chores. The club a man house is a deceptive trap.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> I've asked those kinds of questions before, but he will deflect and just bring up things I haven't done, or ask why the girls can't do it. When pushed, I get an attitude.
> 
> Right after school was let out, he complained that the house wasn't clean when he got home and the girls should be doing more chores since they are home. I called a meeting, and the girls and I hashed out a simple chore list, complete with a sticker chart. I added my own daily stuff as well, plus some little things to do daily to accomplish my goals. All right in front of Mister, who stayed quiet for the rest of the night.


I am really curious about this... all right in front of Mister, who stayed quiet for the rest of the night. So the one making the complaint was not involved, included, requested to help with the solution? 'Hey, how about you be part of this?'


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> Oh yea and I tried not to laugh. He reiterated the trips to the hardware store, how he had to dig huge holes, how much it all cost, and what a pain in the butt it all was. And of course his beans. After like half an hour, he got tired of talking and flopped on the couch for the rest of the evening.
> 
> I did regard that its nice to have them all fixed. And now I need to find something nice-looking so to mark that one he keeps running over. Our driveway is huge, but that spigot is like a magnet.


Given that he's the one that keeps running it over, could this not be something he finds a solution for?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Marduk said:


> And we leave each other to them. We can ask each other to do something, or ask them to do it a certain way, but not both.


Ahh yes, good call. 

On occasion, if I suggest how something is to be done and it's not really needed Batman's response to me is, 'Well, you're welcome to do it yourself next time..' My reaction is then, 'I'll leave you to it.'

If he explains how something ought to be done, my response is 'Can you show me how?' He then continues with the task as I cheekily start walking away, sometimes chuckling, until I hear the 'Oye, get back here!' Or he might say, 'No, you're good..' and leaves me to it.

No doubt there are times when suggestions are welcomed and needed.
That's separate to those interactions.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> No, they don't go together unless she goes on being boss and he goes on being his lazy self and neither really care about that.
> 
> Very often, when someone like the OP looks like they want to be the boss is because their partner was very happy to let them do all the work. So they become 'in charge' of everything. It's a self-feeding cycle. There is a way to break out of it, but it would take some cleaver moves on her part and of course once again, she would have to put in all the effort.


She is also the only one here, and hence the only one that we can give advice to.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Keep in mind that bilateral chore negotiation only works when both parties are willing to negotiate. It does not work with some.


Sure, that is what bilateral means. When I told her "you have a good thing", I meant she and her husband had a good thing. In English, "you" meaning either singular or plural leads to confusion sometimes, this being one.

I've known women who thought their gender made them foreman of the home project scene, and I don't think men ought to put up w/ this any more than women ought to let their husbands order them to cook/sew/clean. It needs to be an bilateral partnership, and a little appreciation on both sides makes it SO much more pleasant.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> Sure, that is what bilateral means. When I told her "you have a good thing", I meant she and her husband had a good thing. In English, "you" meaning either singular or plural leads to confusion sometimes, this being one.
> 
> I've known women who thought their gender made them foreman of the home project scene, and I don't think men ought to put up w/ this any more than women ought to let their husbands order them to cook/sew/clean. It needs to be an bilateral partnership, and a little appreciation on both sides makes it SO much more pleasant.


Stereotypically things “go a certain way”. Many of us have perceived expectations of ourselves and our partners. A lot of it is pushed on us by society, a lot of it was what we saw growing up. 
It’s hard to wipe the slate clean and start fresh with no expectations.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

Marduk said:


> Maybe he doesn't care about equality - and if so that's something that they can at least come to an 'agree to disagree' situation about.
> 
> My point is he seems lazy and entitled. On the flip side she seems like she wants to be the boss. Those two things don't really go together.


I don't mean to be the boss, nor do I really push for thr alpha position. But jeez, somebody has to take care of bills, credit, yellow jacket nests, livestock, trash, insurances, and on and on. Some things I can ignore, but most things need attention before there are consequences. And his refusal to deal with these things forces me to take care of them. I'm kind of stuck.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Stereotypically things “go a certain way”. Many of us have perceived expectations of ourselves and our partners. A lot of it is pushed on us by society, a lot of it was what we saw growing up.
> It’s hard to wipe the slate clean and start fresh with no expectations.


Most of us don't come into marriage perfect, but if you are marriage material you will listen to a spouse who politely challenges your not-so-reasonable expectations.


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## Vanicky (Jul 22, 2020)

Cup of Tea said:


> 3 of our 6 outside spigots have been broken for YEARS and I've lost track of how many times I've told my spouse about them. One of them keeps getting broken because he has ran it over 3 times. I love how he says "people need to stop hitting it." I keep the outside water valve shut off so the pressure tank doesn't working itself to death.
> 
> He is finally out fixing them. He started a garden and now realized how much of a pain it is to get stuff done, having to drag hoses all over God's creation. I can hear him cussing from inside the house, and I feel bad for his adult son, who is helping. He also makes it a point to come tell me when one is done with each one, and has complained about going to the local hardware store 2 times. 2 TIMES!! Its less than a 5 minute drive away. He is fixing the last one now.
> 
> ...


My ex was great at fixing things around the house, but spent an enormous amount of money on his ego. He work a book (it was okay) and self published it for thousands of dollars and sold maybe 25 copies. Then he self published a CD for thousands of dollars. He sold maybe 20 copies. He’s planning on doing it again. Our home needed upgraded...painting, new floorin, etc., Our cars were falling apart, our furniture was old, I had clothes that were decades old. As a family we rarely took any kind of vacation, and the one we did he complained for a year and a half about paying for it, but had no problem taking himself on 2 expensive golf trips with work buddies.

His social media is full of bragging on himself and expecting praise from others. He told me that I didn’t brag on him enough or like his Facebook posts enough. I felt like I was married to a 13 year old. He bought himself an art piece for his bathroom that says “Hello there Handsome.”

I get it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I agree with Ele. I've heard stories like this my whole life, and it's always men. Sit down and talk with him seriously about his attitude about this stuff and how you feel like he's asking for a big show of appreciation for something you've been fuming about for 3 years already and putting up with and that while you appreciate him overall, this household doesn't hand out trophies for everything or else your mantle would be overflowing.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

Vanicky said:


> My ex was great at fixing things around the house, but spent an enormous amount of money on his ego. He work a book (it was okay) and self published it for thousands of dollars and sold maybe 25 copies. Then he self published a CD for thousands of dollars. He sold maybe 20 copies. He’s planning on doing it again. Our home needed upgraded...painting, new floorin, etc., Our cars were falling apart, our furniture was old, I had clothes that were decades old. As a family we rarely took any kind of vacation, and the one we did he complained for a year and a half about paying for it, but had no problem taking himself on 2 expensive golf trips with work buddies.
> 
> His social media is full of bragging on himself and expecting praise from others. He told me that I didn’t brag on him enough or like his Facebook posts enough. I felt like I was married to a 13 year old. He bought himself an art piece for his bathroom that says “Hello there Handsome.”
> 
> I get it.


Does he ever wonder why he's your EX?? He sounds like a good candidate for the Dr. Phil show!! I recall more than one guest who acted JUST like him..


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I agree with Ele. I've heard stories like this my whole life, and it's always men. Sit down and talk with him seriously about his attitude about this stuff and how you feel like he's asking for a big show of appreciation for something you've been fuming about for 3 years already and putting up with and that while you appreciate him overall, this household doesn't hand out trophies for everything or else your mantle would be overflowing.


Oh I have. But communicating anything: weather good, bad, or indifferent I get one of 3 responses
1) I am outright ignored. He is either glued to his phone or the tv. Then I have to repeat myself or yell, which makes him mad. 
2) Extreme defensiveness and deflection. He was yelling about not having matched socks, and I asked why he doesn't match socks while watching TV, and he stated "Nobody else does, why should I??" 
3) He will regard what I say, then immediately "forget." Recently, I told him I was getting a tire fixed after work. The next day he asked why I wad late home. _facepalm_


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi cup of tea,
Good to see you are still posting. I've got to laugh about the matching socks. My wife who hates folding laundry, hates socks the most. We have a box for orphans (socks that survive the laundry process without a partner). The idea is that in the future the partners will meet up in the box and be returned to service. You won't believe (well actually you probably will) how often I find three or more pairs in the box. Your husband (still STBX?) should do what I have done and buy socks in quantity, like 5 or 6 matching pairs. It increases the odds of getting pairs back.
Honestly I'm just fine with Mrs Nail just leaving the socks for me. It takes ten minutes to do a weeks worth of socks, and I'm wearing 2 pair a day when i exercise.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I never give up finding my other sock. I keep the strays just in case. Also, it made me start trying to buy multiple pairs of the same sock when I found a good sock, which hasn't happened lately.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I never give up finding my other sock. I keep the strays just in case. Also, it made me start trying to buy multiple pairs of the same sock when I found a good sock, which hasn't happened lately.


"For every sock that goes missing, it comes back as a tupperware lid"
~Housewife Proverb~ 

😆


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Cup of Tea said:


> "For every sock that goes missing, it comes back as a tupperware lid"
> ~Housewife Proverb~
> 
> 😆


That's it! I'm giving up socks. Seriously DD and i are plotting to disappear an entire tote of lids.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

I would just give him the parade. It’ll puff him up and make him feel like a real man. When they feel like a real man, their **** gets harder. Win/win.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Cup of Tea said:


> "For every sock that goes missing, it comes back as a tupperware lid"
> ~Housewife Proverb~
> 
> 😆


If only!


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

C.C. says ... said:


> I would just give him the parade. It’ll puff him up and make him feel like a real man. When they feel like a real man, their **** gets harder. Win/win.


I would normally agree with this, but the problem is she is the real man in the relationship and is working so hard. So much harder than him.


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## SportingChance (Dec 7, 2013)

_“I want her to be proud of me.

Sounds like you work hard. You clearly think he doesn’t. But you also clearly don’t respect your husband at all. Maybe you’re totally right and maybe he doesn’t deserve your respect. But unless you’re willing to divorce him, you might want to start by looking at your own role in this dynamic, too.”
[/QUOTE]_

Spot on. I’ve known many guys that just can’t take the perceived disappointment of always being criticized or made to feel they were in competition for something irrelevant like there was a real life-death struggle for power, that they stop trying to make the situation better and eventually leave with few regrets. I’ve seen the exact opposite too from both parties and their marriages really seem to thrive and go places. It’s my belief when people start tearing each other down, it is really trying to justify ending the relationship (or build themselves as the Saint when things do go south publicly) & don’t have the courage to say they want it to end out loud.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

C.C. says ... said:


> I would just give him the parade. It’ll puff him up and make him feel like a real man. When they feel like a real man, their **** gets harder. Win/win.


I wish it were that simple!!


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

SportingChance said:


> _“I want her to be proud of me.
> 
> Sounds like you work hard. You clearly think he doesn’t. But you also clearly don’t respect your husband at all. Maybe you’re totally right and maybe he doesn’t deserve your respect. But unless you’re willing to divorce him, you might want to start by looking at your own role in this dynamic, too.”_
> 
> Spot on. I’ve known many guys that just can’t take the perceived disappointment of always being criticized or made to feel they were in competition for something irrelevant like there was a real life-death struggle for power, that they stop trying to make the situation better and eventually leave with few regrets. I’ve seen the exact opposite too from both parties and their marriages really seem to thrive and go places. It’s my belief when people start tearing each other down, it is really trying to justify ending the relationship (or build themselves as the Saint when things do go south publicly) & don’t have the courage to say they want it to end out loud.


You are right. I'm not proud of him. Not at all. I have no energy to put into building him up because I'm doing all the work that both of us should be doing. I am exhausted.

He used to do stuff. But over the years, he started slacking and pretty much forced me to do everything. I cannot let the garbage pile up, or let the yard turn into a hayfield. He now only works hard at work, and occasionally on projects at home, but I do 99% of the daily work. We both work.

I am seeking a divorce. I'm on the hunt for a part time job in addition to my full time. I'm looking pretty good to keep the house, which is all I want. I'll admit, I'm scared to pull the trigger mostly because all the burdens he puts on me will shift to his mom: truck payment, paying bills, ect. He refuses to have anything to do with any of that. And I'm concerned for the house's and maybe my safety when he gets served.

It can't be good for his self esteem either, to have a wife who is more capable than him. I'm aware of that when I'm cleaning the stove pipe, or fixing stuff.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I was going to say I could "smell the divorce in your typing" but sounds like you are on it. 
I was also going to make a recommendation for your yard hydrant problem by moving towards stab-loks which are flush with the ground, but I think that is a moot subject now.......

I was wondering how old you guys are? Just wondering if your guy is fighting health problems he doesn't want to face. My dad is going through this "lack of drive" right now but the guy has literally been an azz kicker his whole life.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

bobsmith said:


> I was going to say I could "smell the divorce in your typing" but sounds like you are on it.
> I was also going to make a recommendation for your yard hydrant problem by moving towards stab-loks which are flush with the ground, but I think that is a moot subject now.......


I Googled Stab Loks, but all that pulls up is circuit panel stuff. I've always wanted a windmill... Or maybe a big hose hanger made of an old tire rim... 



bobsmith said:


> I was wondering how old you guys are? Just wondering if your guy is fighting health problems he doesn't want to face. My dad is going through this "lack of drive" right now but the guy has literally been an azz kicker his whole life.


I'm 35, and he is 42. He has health issues: slipping discs, and a repaired knee (the tendon that keeps the patella in place), diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol, which are all worstened by that 200# stomach. He has always been a model employee whose crews have always outpaced others, but flips off the switch when he is home.
It makes my heart hurt to know he likely isn't going to live a long life. But losing that belly would be a huge relief for his joints. But he simply doesn't want to, and likely never will unless he has a major event like a heart attack.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He’s getting to the age where a heart attack is a possibility (depends a lot on his genetics). Better to get out soon — if that’s your plan.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Cup of Tea said:


> I Googled Stab Loks, but all that pulls up is circuit panel stuff. I've always wanted a windmill... Or maybe a big hose hanger made of an old tire rim...
> 
> 
> I'm 35, and he is 42. He has health issues: slipping discs, and a repaired knee (the tendon that keeps the patella in place), diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol, which are all worstened by that 200# stomach. He has always been a model employee whose crews have always outpaced others, but flips off the switch when he is home.
> It makes my heart hurt to know he likely isn't going to live a long life. But losing that belly would be a huge relief for his joints. But he simply doesn't want to, and likely never will unless he has a major event like a heart attack.


What I suspect is you have a chain of freezeless hydrants in the yard? What we do (been around golf/premium landscape a lot) is dump the hydrants and go to a socket that is in the ground. When you want water, you use a special "stab" device. Just push down, 1/4 turn and you have water. Some may remember the old school sprinkler days where you would insert a RainBird head like this. It's the same socket but Lowes people won't have a clue. I recommend using 6-8" round valve boxes around them and set the sockets a bit deep. This prevents tire pressure damage and any freeze concerns. Been doing it for 30yrs. 

On ur dude, I am sorry for both of you because I am pushing his age and have none of those issues, but my dad has most of them, so I can relate. I can tell you that a LOT of his behaviors are related to his health but what sickens me (looking at my dad) is people seldom want to face the health crisis until it is too late, in which I say "too late now, give er a full send"..... Like smokers that push until they are on O2, then say "I have to quit".....LOL Like, hell no, you just keep on because you done burned the building down. 

My dad was also a serious ass kicker and I am not giving up on him. Honestly sounds like you are out so I won't bother trying to help on the health side, but the guy needs to understand, at his age, DAMN, you have time to turn the corner. I can tell you are repulsed by him but I guarantee his health is slowing him down and HE doesn't even realize, and probably thinks it is just age. 

May I ask, how long has he been over weight and by how much? height and weight? The reality is if someone has been overweight for most of their life, the body takes TIME to reset, and we are talking YEARS. People that drop tons of weight fast, almost always gain it back because of many factors, but what I try to help people with is not a "diet" but a total lifestyle change. I have challenged people to eat just as much Chicken breast and greens as they can manage to eat. What shocks people is they are usually in a caloric DEFICIT, which is good. It can prove to people that you don't have to starve to get healthy.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

Openminded said:


> He’s getting to the age where a heart attack is a possibility (depends a lot on his genetics). Better to get out soon — if that’s your plan.


42 isn't old at all!! But I didn't get into this to become a nurse. Yes I know, in sickness and in health, but that doesn't count when its self inflicted 😞


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

bobsmith said:


> What I suspect is you have a chain of freezeless hydrants in the yard? What we do (been around golf/premium landscape a lot) is dump the hydrants and go to a socket that is in the ground. When you want water, you use a special "stab" device. Just push down, 1/4 turn and you have water. Some may remember the old school sprinkler days where you would insert a RainBird head like this. It's the same socket but Lowes people won't have a clue. I recommend using 6-8" round valve boxes around them and set the sockets a bit deep. This prevents tire pressure damage and any freeze concerns. Been doing it for 30yrs.


They're just regular hoses on a network of 1" pipes. With just regular valves. 



bobsmith said:


> On ur dude, I am sorry for both of you because I am pushing his age and have none of those issues, but my dad has most of them, so I can relate. I can tell you that a LOT of his behaviors are related to his health but what sickens me (looking at my dad) is people seldom want to face the health crisis until it is too late, in which I say "too late now, give er a full send"..... Like smokers that push until they are on O2, then say "I have to quit".....LOL Like, hell no, you just keep on because you done burned the building down.


Its hard to watch someone you love destroy destroy themselves. It happened one Pepsi at a time. Its hard to say if the damage is permanent, but he is the only one who can make the change for the better, or not. 



bobsmith said:


> dad was also a serious ass kicker and I am not giving up on him. Honestly sounds like you are out so I won't bother trying to help on the health side, but the guy needs to understand, at his age, DAMN, you have time to turn the corner. I can tell you are repulsed by him but I guarantee his health is slowing him down and HE doesn't even realize, and probably thinks it is just age.


I'm not repulsed as much as just sad. One day I realized i couldn't wrap my arms around him, and had to stand on my tip toes to kiss him. 



bobsmith said:


> May I ask, how long has he been over weight and by how much? height and weight? The reality is if someone has been overweight for most of their life, the body takes TIME to reset, and we are talking YEARS. People that drop tons of weight fast, almost always gain it back because of many factors, but what I try to help people with is not a "diet" but a total lifestyle change. I have challenged people to eat just as much Chicken breast and greens as they can manage to eat. What shocks people is they are usually in a caloric DEFICIT, which is good. It can prove to people that you don't have to starve to get healthy.


When we first met, he had a little beer gut and moobs, but was able to walk long distances and we'd go for bike rides. And hanky-panky was awesome. Then he got bigger after we got married, and continied to gain and gain. The diabetes diagnosis wasn't much of a shock.. I'm pretty tubby right now and realized that I've been using food to cope. But I'm super active, and could run a very slow 5k tomorrow. He talks about getting in shape, but I can't even get him to walk laps around the driveway, or walk on the treadmill. At all.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Cup of Tea said:


> 42 isn't old at all!! But I didn't get into this to become a nurse. Yes I know, in sickness and in health, but that doesn't count when its self inflicted 😞


No, it definitely isn’t old but the consequences of lifestyle choices can start showing up at any age. My ex-husband was close to 50 when he had his first heart attack. It seriously impacted his life going forward. I’m sure if he could have gone back at that point and changed some of the choices he had made in the past he would have but — too late. The clock is ticking on your husband. If you plan to get out, don’t wait too long.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

CupofTea, I have spent a lot of time in this sector and regardless of outcome, diet MUST change before exercise. If the guy is so over weight, he would likely be doing damage to his joints by trying to walk let alone run. I HIGHLY recommend ANYTHING but running. A treadmill would work perfect as it reduces the weight related stress on the knees and hips.
Rule #1, NO SUGAR!!!! That includes honey, Agave, etc, etc, etc. They ALL are just a combo of Fructose and Glucose. Alternatives I like are Stevia. ZERO glycemic response. Some people say "it doesn't taste just like sugar".... I say, "yes, but it also doesn't taste like diabetes". 
Rule #2, Move towards a protein dominant diet. It is nearly impossible to get fat by only eating lean protein, and that is a fact.
Rule #3, only complex carbs and not a lot of them. Replace white/wheat bread with real whole grain bread, no white rice (useless), no cereal, etc.
Rule #4, 2 meals a day, that is IT. I actually only 1x/day but baby steps. You can absolutely tune your Ghrelin (hunger hormone) with different food choices. As I mention, lean turkey and chicken work very well here!

Understand this, eating fat does NOT make you fat, and the goal with above is to reduce the glycemic response and increase the body's natural insulin sensitivity. Insulin causes the body to store extra energy as FAT and when your body loses sensitivity to it (diabetes), it pumps in more, then you start injecting it. This is why so few every climb out of diabetes......They don't make radical food changes and understand it. You will never be healthy if you are injecting insulin.
The body cranks up the insulin when you eat. This is why it is very important to space meals. This "eat every few hours" is total nonsense unless you are an athlete that needs that for muscle repairs.


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## Imagirl (Aug 17, 2020)

If my man wanted hoopla I'd give him hoopla. Who cares if I need the same? I need affection way more than he does and he always gives it without complaint.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

bobsmith said:


> CupofTea, I have spent a lot of time in this sector and regardless of outcome, diet MUST change before exercise. If the guy is so over weight, he would likely be doing damage to his joints by trying to walk let alone run. I HIGHLY recommend ANYTHING but running. A treadmill would work perfect as it reduces the weight related stress on the knees and hips.
> Rule #1, NO SUGAR!!!! That includes honey, Agave, etc, etc, etc. They ALL are just a combo of Fructose and Glucose. Alternatives I like are Stevia. ZERO glycemic response. Some people say "it doesn't taste just like sugar".... I say, "yes, but it also doesn't taste like diabetes".
> Rule #2, Move towards a protein dominant diet. It is nearly impossible to get fat by only eating lean protein, and that is a fact.
> Rule #3, only complex carbs and not a lot of them. Replace white/wheat bread with real whole grain bread, no white rice (useless), no cereal, etc.
> ...


He isn't to the point where he's injecting insulin. (Yet) But when he first had his blood sugar tested, it was 312. 😳 After giving up pop for a few months and eating very few carbs, it was hovering around 150-180. But that was last year and I've only seen him check his blood sugar a few times. His A1C is down to 6 from 11, so he did make some effort for a time. And dropped 25lbs in a month.

I cook pretty healthy, but he constantly requests potatoes and pastas, and I've seen lots of fast food wrappers in his truck. All I can do is cook good meals. 

I cannot mother/nag/force him to do better for himself.


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## Cup of Tea (Apr 15, 2020)

Imagirl said:


> If my man wanted hoopla I'd give him hoopla. Who cares if I need the same? I need affection way more than he does and he always gives it without complaint.


Well good for you and your fella.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

An a1c of 6 is pretty much the definition of managed. If he were to get his stuff together and lose weight to a healthy body fat percentage, he could avoid every complication of diabetes that I currently live with. You are absolutely right that you can't make him do it. The best thing he could do for his life is exactly what Matt Matt is doing. Go for a long walk with his wife every day. To bad he isn't here looking for the answers he needs.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Cup of Tea said:


> He isn't to the point where he's injecting insulin. (Yet) But when he first had his blood sugar tested, it was 312. 😳 After giving up pop for a few months and eating very few carbs, it was hovering around 150-180. But that was last year and I've only seen him check his blood sugar a few times. His A1C is down to 6 from 11, so he did make some effort for a time. And dropped 25lbs in a month.
> 
> I cook pretty healthy, but he constantly requests potatoes and pastas, and I've seen lots of fast food wrappers in his truck. All I can do is cook good meals.
> 
> I cannot mother/nag/force him to do better for himself.


I hear ya. I don't want to add too much 'help' where it is not wanted but sounds like you are on the right track, if he would just follow along. I really do think having to eat on the go is one of the biggest issues facing America. Unhealthy is cheaper and faster than healthy, and there is just something wrong with that. U can PM me if you want any thoughts to advice. 

To be straight, people that have packed on a ton of weight usually eat a lot, and the wrong foods. I try to first give them a 'free for all' on decent stuff. Hunger causes bad choices. I don't know a fat vegetarian, but I eat meat. Protein kills hunger, takes more calories to break down, and is usually loaded with other good stuff. 

So much stuff.... I might at least offer the teachings of Dr Fung. He is a doc that specializes in serious obesity and diabetes. I personally don't think you have to follow something 'to the letter' but have to figure out what the 'absolutely nots' are. 

Dr Gundry is another, and he has some very interesting insight on certain foods, which my brain appreciates. Lectins, phenols, probiotics, etc. 

Also, I try to empower people with the use of herbs!!! Almost all herbs are good for you, packed with flavor, low in calories, etc!!! You can turn up plain old chicken into some serious flavor with a little creativity. One of my power house meals is my 'guac chicken'. Grilled chicken breast topped with basically fresh guac dip. Avocados are very good for you and the combo makes for one hell of a good tasting and nutrient rich meal. 

Just a thought but if you leave, maybe get him a book or two by the Dr. above and tell him to he needs to help himself before he case more issues. High blood sugar leads to amputations.


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