# I love sex...just not with her...



## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

I told my story on another thread. Briefly, I am the HD in the all too common HD/LD mismatch. Married 26 years. My frustration surfaced 5 months ago. Had the "talk" with my wife. Overwhelmed her with my revelation. Demanded some change. Learned a lot about sex. Came to understand that she does not need sex like I do. Understand that she does not desire me. That physical appearance is not important to her as it is to me.

Over the past 5 months, I progressed from

I THOUGHT I wanted sex more often. We had it a little more often. That didn't satisfy me.

I THOUGHT it was because it wasn't sexy; it was stale. We bought a toy. That didn't satisfy me.

I THOUGHT it was because she didn't desire sex. I asked her to consider this and look into how to improve her mood, decrease her stress, increase her libido. She was prescribed an SSRI. She took it one week and stopped. Still not satisfied.

I now THINK that I don't DESIRE HER. I am realizing through all of this that I don't find her attractive. I no longer crave to have sex with her. I do so because it is my only option. But, I am obsessed with the idea of having sex with someone who does crave sex.

I wonder if before we had the talk, when I was routinely rejected 29 out of 30 days, if I craved her more because I knew it was a rare event.

What can I do to try to become "Shallow Hal" and convince myself that she is desirable? 

(From what I am learning on these boards, the alternatives to that are far more devastating, life changing and hurtful to more than me).


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

What specifically do you find undesirable about her?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I now THINK that I don't DESIRE HER. I am realizing through all of this that I don't find her attractive. I no longer crave to have sex with her. I do so because it is my only option. But, I *am obsessed with the idea of having sex with someone who does crave sex.*
> 
> I wonder if before we had the talk, when I was routinely rejected 29 out of 30 days, if I craved her more because I knew it was a rare event.
> .


The bolded is the real problem. If your wife could show desire for you, your attraction to her would most likely return. You've spent years being rejected and having your feelings go unreturned. Love cannot exist in a vacuum, it must be fed.

And now you're angry, which is probably not the best approach.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Do you want to stay married? Why?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You forgot to mention that the woman you ARE obsessed with having sex with is your much younger female subordinate at work.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

While this may or may not be relevant to this thread you should be aware that women in professional porn "appear" to have a high desire for sex because:


They are getting paid!
They have a fetish for being exhibitionistic.
They crave attention from men.

In the case of amateur porn most women "appear" to have a desire for sex because:


They do so to please thier lovers.
They may not be aware the video will be publicly shared and are putting on an act for the camera in private to be playful for their lovers.
They have a fetish for being exihibitionistic.
The content is created to facilitate a husband breaking a bad porn habit, so that he can instead watch videos of his spouse and not porn. The wife in this case is imitating what she has seen in porn videos.

*NONE OF THE ABOVE* are situations in which a women actually has a high desire for sex. While there are probably some exceptions, the above seem to be the most common. 

Otherwise I could go get in a van and women walking along the street would be ready to jump in at a moments notice and straddle me. I would find out that they were not even wearing any underwear because somehow they knew I would be driving by! :scratchhead:

Probably the only situation in which a random woman has high desire is in a rebound and she is just using sex to dull the pain from a recent breakup.

I would advise you to take some time to explore how to make your wife's desire respond to yours. Doing so will require time and patience, as well as taking the focus off of arousal and more towards an emotional connection during love making.

Badsanta


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> You forgot to mention that the woman you ARE obsessed with having sex with is your much younger female subordinate at work.



Well damn! That certainly makes a huge difference.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> ...Married 26 years.
> 
> ...Had the "talk" with my wife. *Overwhelmed her* with my revelation. *Demanded some change*. Learned a lot about sex. Came to understand that she does not need sex like I do. Understand that *she does not desire me*. That *physical appearance is *not *important* to her as it is *to me.*
> 
> ...


A few thoughts. I was in a Sex Starved Marriage and my wife and I worked our way into a more loving relationship. You need to decide how much you value your marriage. If you value it and your vows to your wife you will at least try to fix things. You may or may not succeed but you should probably try.

Now as to specifics. From what I have read and experienced, it takes TWO to wreck or fix a marriage. It is usually not something that is done in total isolation by one partner. It is usually a joint responsibility.

You have been sexually rejected, a lot. That hurts. You are probably angry about that at either a subconscious or conscious level. If you want your marriage to succeed, you need to drop the anger; forgive your wife and above all forgive yourself for doing things that hurt her. She is your wife. She can tell by body language, by tone of voice, by facian exprressions when you are angry with her. She doesn't want to have sex with someone who is angrey with her. Think about that for a while.

Your wife has put up with a lot. He have overwhelmed her, demanded changes, and made her get medications. She has at least briefly complied with your requests. If you were training a puppy, you would probably praise the poor creature when it did what you wanted so that it would feel comfortable in doing it again and maybe doing more for you. Have you praised your wife for all that she has tried and the little changes she has made?



> What can I do to try to become "Shallow Hal" and convince myself that she is desirable?


In my opinion to convince yourself that she is desirable, you first need to loose your attitude, loose your feeling of entitlement to her affection, and build up her feeling of confidence and self-worth.

For me in curing my SSM, I had to first realize that I was a big part of the problem. I had to first for many many months supply my wife with unconditional love and make her feel loved and cherrished for each day. This was all without any sex or her providing any emotional love to me. Ultimately, with the help of a great sex therapist, my wife finaly understood that if she wanted to remain married and wanted to have a happy marriage, she needed to engage in regular sex with her husband as that was an important part of marriage.

I also learned that I can not force my wife to love me, she is the only one who can decide if she wants to emotionally love me or not.


Good luck.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I don't think you will find your wife sexually attractive as long as you are obsessed with your coworker. Not after the "hot" conversations you had with her. 

So, how are you going to fix this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> What specifically do you find undesirable about her?


I don't find her physically attractive. She doesn't work at herself. She has never regularly exercised or dieted. She gained weight with pregnancy and has never lost it (20 years later). She won't wear makeup or perfume. She has low energy. She falls asleep at 8pm. I could go on, but I think that's part of the problem...I am looking for reasons.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> The bolded is the real problem. If your wife could show desire for you, your attraction to her would most likely return. You've spent years being rejected and having your feelings go unreturned. Love cannot exist in a vacuum, it must be fed.
> 
> And now you're angry, which is probably not the best approach.


YES, Agree. But, I don't know which has to come first; me finding a way to desire her or me doing things for her to desire me.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> Do you want to stay married? Why?


Good question.
Because we have been together for 30 years. We are linked through each other, our families, our friends, our history, our possessions, OUR KIDS. 
Because that's what people expect.
Because a long marriage is an accomplishment.
Because I don't want to hurt her.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> You forgot to mention that the woman you ARE obsessed with having sex with is your much younger female subordinate at work.


I didn't forget to mention it. I left it out intentionally because I have taken much of the advice from the previous thread and recognize that my obsession with her is a fantasy and can not be a reality. None-the-less, I continue to obsess about the idea of any woman who desires sex (with me). I question if that is only a fantasy or if it could be a reality. 

I left it out because I wanted this thread to focus on how I can find my wife desirable. 

It's a shame that I don't, but right now, I don't (find her desirable). I am trying to do what I think is the right thing. Ask for advice to help me regain my desire for her.

Maybe I should be asking 
"How do I make myself desirable to her?"


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I don't find her physically attractive. She doesn't work at herself. She has never regularly exercised or dieted. She gained weight with pregnancy and has never lost it (20 years later). She won't wear makeup or perfume. She has low energy. She falls asleep at 8pm. I could go on, but I think that's part of the problem...I am looking for reasons.


Ok, I agree. You're not attracted to your lazy, non-active, overweight wife. She won't put on makeup for fix herself up for YOU. She could care less that her body is a total turn-off for you. I agree with you; spouses should take care of their bodies for themselves and for EACH OTHER. Bummer that she didn't get the memo.

5 minutes before my SO gets home from work, I dash to the bathroom and freshen up. That includes lipstick, brushing my hair, swiping my "girly parts" with a wet-wipe, and applying softly scented powder to my girly parts. (One never knows what might happen when he walks through that door )

You are missing the excitement, the adventure, the thrill of a partner who DESIRES you, who CRAVES your touch, who can't keep their hands off of you. And don't let anyone convince you that this all "dies" after a long marriage. I call BS. I divorced my hubs after a 20 year low/no sex marriage, found the partner of my dreams, and we're still going strong almost 5 years later.

If anything, we are stronger as a couple, and more attracted to each other, than ever.

You are in a marital and sexual mismatch.

BUT...... and this is a BIG but....

Get out of your marriage first, before you pursue this co-worker, or any other woman. Your wife (and YOU) deserve FAR better than a tawdry office affair that breaks up your marriage and likely costs you your job and your career.

So own it. Accept it. You made the wrong choice.

Now fix it, honorably.

Tell your wife the truth. This is over. I want a divorce.

And then file.

Then, you are free to do whatever the h*ll you want with your coworker (which I would strongly advise against lest you want a sexual harassment suit). Join Tinder instead...


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Well damn! That certainly makes a huge difference.


Well, I am not sure it does. Or at least, I am now trying to understand the root of the issues. You are assuming that I don't want to have sex with my wife because I am obsessed with a coworker.

Perhaps, I am obsessed with the coworker because I don't find my wife desirable. 
My point is, that I am not acting on my obsession. I am acting on my lack of desire for my wife. I am asking for advise on how to find her more desirable, or how I can make myself more desirable to her.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> A few thoughts. I was in a Sex Starved Marriage and my wife and I worked our way into a more loving relationship. You need to decide how much you value your marriage. If you value it and your vows to your wife you will at least try to fix things. You may or may not succeed but you should probably try.
> 
> Now as to specifics. From what I have read and experienced, it takes TWO to wreck or fix a marriage. It is usually not something that is done in total isolation by one partner. It is usually a joint responsibility.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the response. I feel that what you are suggesting I do, is what I have been doing for 26 years. Unconditional love. I have not complained about the little sex. I have not told her I was dissatisfied with her or with her body or with anything. I have loved her, supported her, cared for her, raised a family with her, dreamed with her. 

Now, after 26 years, I am at my limits and looking for change. I don't want to go back to unconditional love. I want conditional love. I will love you, if you meet my conditions. I do feel entitled. Entitled to someone who understands what I want, and wants that too. I want to fix it. 

But, other than on these boards, most advice seems to leave it up to the man to fix it.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I don't find her physically attractive. She doesn't work at herself. She has never regularly exercised or dieted. She gained weight with pregnancy and has never lost it (20 years later). She won't wear makeup or perfume. She has low energy. She falls asleep at 8pm. I could go on, but I think that's part of the problem...I am looking for reasons.


If you keep up your appearance and your spouse does not, to me that indicates that your spouse takes you for granted and does not respect you.

Before anyone takes my head off, I feel the same way about men who are slobs who have hot wives.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> But, other than on these boards, most advice seems to leave it up to the man to fix it.


The tough part is that it's probably still up to you to fix it.

Maybe the fix is to divorce her though.

I'm still not sure why you want to be married to her.

What is preventing you from divorce other than inertia?


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> I don't think you will find your wife sexually attractive as long as you are obsessed with your coworker. Not after the "hot" conversations you had with her.
> 
> So, how are you going to fix this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks to advice from the previous thread, I recognize the inappropriateness of the obsession with the coworker and have been working to eliminate it.

The point of this thread is that I have come to realize that my lack of desire for my wife is perhaps the origin of my problem, not the result. I now suspect that I have not found her desirable for a long time. 

It hurts me to write this. How do I tell her that I don't find her desirable?

I have been wondering, lately, if that is why some guys cheat. No, not because they don't find their wife desirable. That's too obvious. I mean, do they cheat because then they would be the bad guy. If a husband told his wife he didn't find her desirable, that would crush her self-esteem. If he cheated, then she could keep her pride knowing he was the one that did something wrong.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> But, other than on these boards, most advice seems to leave it up to the man to fix it.


Taking a more practical bent. YOU posted. Whom else would we give advice to? Your wife is not here. You are.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

If I were you, I would try to put the co-worker thing to the side at this point. You've (1) told your wife about it and (2) have resolved to figure out a way to manage the co-worker and stop the inappropriate interactions. You screwed up, but you are fixing it and that is all you can do at this point. So try to move on.

Regarding your wife, I think you have to decide if you even want to want her again. What is the point of resurrecting this desire you've lost? There might be a great reason, but I think you need a reason.

Until you decide this preliminary question, thinking about other women is a total waste of energy.

Believe me, I know it's an awesome fantasy (when you're in the situation you are in now) to look at other women and think, damn, that would be nice.

But you know what? You can LIVE that reality right now if that is what you want to do. 

Why sit here and fantasize about it if that is what you really want?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Anon1111 said:


> If you keep up your appearance and your spouse does not, to me that indicates that your spouse takes you for granted and does not respect you.


I wouldn't say that just yet.

What we know about OP's wife is that she has no desire for sex, and doesn't view him (or apparently anybody else) in that way. I'm married to somebody like that.

So when you take out the sex factor (ie. she does not realize she has to be attractive to him, because there's no value in it for her - ie. sex) then she's letting herself go without comprehending what it's doing to her husband.

I keep up my appearance, for the most part, in order to be attractive not just to my wife (who does notice) but also for myself. And yes, others. Not in the hopes that I will get hit on, but because I don't want to be out and about, 100lbs overweight, wearing sweats. This is why most people maintain some semblance of attractiveness and appearance in the first place - for their partner, for themselves, and for others.

OP's wife, like my own, does not compute the value of being attractive to her husband, because her husband's appearance likely doesn't matter one lick to HER. She's just as sexually attracted to him (or anybody else) if he's 400lbs or 175lbs, looks like Brad Pitt, or Danny Devito. Has pecs and a 6-pack, or moobs and a keg.

OP needs to communicate this to his wife, first and foremost. "Please be attractive for me. I understand you will still have no interest in me in that way, but trust me, you don't want me to have no interest in YOU that way."


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, I agree. You're not attracted to your lazy, non-active, overweight, slothful wife. She won't put on makeup for fix herself up for YOU. She could care less that her body is a total turn-off for you. I agree with you; spouses should take care of their bodies for themselves and for EACH OTHER. Bummer that she didn't get the memo.
> 
> 5 minutes before my SO gets home from work, I dash to the bathroom and freshen up. That includes lipstick, brushing my hair, swiping my "girly parts" with a wet-wipe, and applying softly scented powder to my girly parts. (One never knows what might happen when he walks through that door )
> 
> ...


Yes, I wish she did this. She definitely does not crave my touch. We have been in bed getting started on nights when she is expecting it, or has agreed to it, and then she stops to go freshen up. I think "really you couldn't have done that before".


> You are in a marital and sexual mismatch.
> 
> BUT...... and this is a BIG but....
> 
> ...


Again...there will be no PURSUIT of the coworker. I can not stress this enough...SHE HAS NEVER SHOWN INTEREST. SHE SEES ME AS HER BOSS, AS A FATHERLY FIGURE. I am dealing with that component of my mid-life crisis.

I need to figure out if I can fix the other part...the lack of desire by me for her and her for sex.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Good for not pursuing the coworker.



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I need to figure out if I can fix the other part...the lack of desire by me for her and her for sex.


As someone who lived in a 20-year marriage, low/no sex with a sexual mismatch, I'm just gonna tell you upfront -- it's unlikely you can "fix the other part."

It was only after I met my SO, realized there's WAY more to life than the pile of sh*t I was living, divorced my husband, and moved on with my life, that I realized ALL I had lost in two decades of a terrible mismatch.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

alexm said:


> I wouldn't say that just yet.
> 
> What we know about OP's wife is that she has no desire for sex, and doesn't view him (or apparently anybody else) in that way. I'm married to somebody like that.
> 
> ...


Dude, that just shows her lack of empathy.

She doesn't care about looks (which I highly doubt), so nobody else should either.

If she was out on the dating market tomorrow, guaranteed she would be getting in shape, dressing better, wearing makeup, etc.

She takes him for granted because she believes he's not going anywhere.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Taking a more practical bent. YOU posted. Whom else would we give advice to? Your wife is not here. You are.


My point was that generally in a sexual mismatch, most social media seems to portray the HD as a pervert, rather than suggest that a strong sexual desire is healthy and that the LD partner can also do things to improve the relationship and sexual satisfaction. 

I have been pleased that much of the advice on these boards considers the feeling of both the LD and HD partner. The advice often suggest that the HD partner is not at fault.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> The tough part is that it's probably still up to you to fix it.
> 
> Maybe the fix is to divorce her though.
> 
> ...


It's a whole lot of inertia...and fear of the unknown...and hurting her...and letting others down...and not doing what others expect...and hurting the kids...OK, there is a whole lot of reasons. Just beginning to explore this. Can't even imagine thinking of D word.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

alexm said:


> I wouldn't say that just yet.
> 
> What we know about OP's wife is that she has no desire for sex, and doesn't view him (or apparently anybody else) in that way. I'm married to somebody like that.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. This is something that I never would have thought before we had "the talks" a few months ago. When I asked her about my personal appearance, she did explain it didn't matter. I have always thought that she was being very loyal and loving me unconditionally, but I do think that my appearance really doesn't matter to her. So, she doesn't really understand how important her personal appearance is to me. I have tried to talk to her about this, but she shuts me out when it comes to ME suggesting anything to her about her appearance, i.e. like suggestions on how to loose weight more effectively.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Look... take my word for it. You're done. You've checked out. She no longer "floats your boat" and likely never will.

Don't drag this out any longer than it needs to be. People waste 5, 10 years trying to "fix" things that are unfixable.

God knows, I did. What a waste of a decade (or two).


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Again...there will be no PURSUIT of the coworker. I can not stress this enough...SHE HAS NEVER SHOWN INTEREST. SHE SEES ME AS HER BOSS, AS A FATHERLY FIGURE. I am dealing with that component of my mid-life crisis.
> 
> I need to figure out if I can fix the other part...the lack of desire by me for her and her for sex.


You need to quit portraying this woman as an innocent. I can say with all assurance that I have NEVER discussed any aspects of my sex life with any boss and most definitely not my father. She is probably not interested in her aging boss, but she most likely enjoys having the hold over you that she has gained by her inappropriate discussions. 

What was the inappropriate response that you once had with her that you mentioned before?

And you are currently cheating on your wife. You are having an emotional affair! Not convinced? Just ask yourself if you would feel right having these sex discussions that you have had with your young employee in front of your wife. No? Well, that says it all! 

In the 8 days you have posted here, you are already rewriting your marital history it seems. Your description of your wife is shifting to more and more negative. You first said she loved you unconditionally. Now she is a fat, ugly, sloth of a wife! 

And your initial description of the pretty young thing you are hung up on: "I have become totally obsessed with the employee. She has grown more and more attractive to me as I get to know her better. And now that I know she craves sex and is not satisfied either, I am fearful of acting on my obsession and embarrassing myself. Every day, I look at her and want to tell her everything that I have been thinking, pondering and wondering."

You think that type of obsession hasn't changed your view of your wife?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> It's a whole lot of inertia...and fear of the unknown...and hurting her...and letting others down...and not doing what others expect...and hurting the kids...OK, there is a whole lot of reasons. Just beginning to explore this. Can't even imagine thinking of D word.


Get out from under that rock.

Figure out what it would take TODAY for her to earn your commitment.

Also, don't forget what you think you owe her. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that she's got reasons to be skeptical of you. I would focus on this first (if you believe there is enough remaining today to salvage).

The past is gone. Focus on right now.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Lila said:


> How do you expect things to change when your wife has no idea about your complaints or concerns? You mentioned overwhelming your wife when you unloaded 26 years of pent up resentment due to lack of sex. For all of her faults, at least she took your concerns seriously and has made an effort to fix the issues, no?
> 
> According to this post on your other thread, she is making some strides in meeting your sexual needs but the problem now is that you don't find her _physically attractive_......but she has no clue because you've never mentioned it in 26 years of marriage.
> 
> ...


In 26 years of marriage and a 30 year relationship, we have certainly raised many concerns toward each other and addressed them. We wouldn't have survived this long if we didn't. 

This isn't the first time I have expressed concerns with her physique. Over the years, I have tried various tactics to get her to loose weight, to exercise, to eat healthier. I have at times asked her to do so. I have lead her to do so, by example, by encouraging her to join me in the gym, by discarding junk food, by buying healthy food, by subscribing to magazines (those are an old form of media with words on paper: you younguns might not have seen those; . At times I have backed off, feeling that she had more important things to do than take care of appearance.

Now, I am recognizing that nothing is more important than for her to take care of her appearance...not for me but for her. For her self-esteem, her body image, her health. As we age and are loosing our parents, siblings and friends to cancer, heart disease and other causes, I am trying to get her to buy into taking control of her life. Or, at least to take control of the things that she can control; what she eats, how she deals with stress, exercise. To get her to stop making excuses for not loosing weight, for not taking time for herself, for not enjoying life, for not having energy, for not being happy.

She did take my concerns seriously and has made efforts. She is currently trying to loose weight. She has lost 1 pound in 2 months. That saddens and concerns me. She will not allow me to talk to her about it. She is doing it her way. One pound in 2 months is not very effective. 

I also want to add, that although this thread and this forum is 'all about me' since I am on here posting, my efforts have not been one-sided. When we talk, I tell her what I would like, what I want, what I need. 

BUT, I am also asking her what she wants, what she is expecting, what she is hoping for, what she wants me to do (not sexually; in general). And I listen. I reflect. I take action. I do those things. I am trying.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Look... take my word for it. You're done. You've checked out. She no longer "floats your boat" and likely never will.
> 
> Don't drag this out any longer than it needs to be. People waste 5, 10 years trying to "fix" things that are unfixable.
> 
> God knows, I did. What a waste of a decade (or two).


But what reasons did you have to NOT leave? Do you value your happiness above everything else? I am not sure I do. There is much "inertia" at stake here. 
Perhaps concealing my feelings for the greater good is the right choice, no?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> But what reasons did you have to *NOT* leave?


My children.
My personal failure.
An affluent lifestyle, married to a doctor who earned tons of money.
My Catholic upbringing.
Disappointing my family and friends.
My home, my two vacation homes, and my oceanfront property.
My 4 cars, my boat, my vacations, my shopping sprees. (Shallow? Maybe, but truthful.)

Too many people stay for the wrong reasons. What is missing in my list? *My happiness. Not to mention my kids' happiness. They knew the marriage was a sham and were miserable too.*

They are FAR happier now that we are apart. And they would tell you this.



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Do you value your happiness above everything else?


Pretty much. If you're miserable, how can you be any good to anyone else? Including your spouse, your kids, your employer.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Dude, I don't think you want to lead with, "Honey, you have a weight problem" if you actually want to fix this.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

What height and weight is your wife? 

What are your ages? How old are your kids? 

Did you say your wife is going through menopause?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> She did take my concerns seriously and has made efforts. She is currently trying to loose weight. *She has lost 1 pound in 2 months.* That saddens and concerns me. She will not allow me to talk to her about it. She is doing it her way. One pound in 2 months is not very effective.


This is a joke.

That's not even likely fat loss, more like water fluctuation/bloating.

I have a very important event to attend in May. I'm already in great shape, exercise daily, eat super-healthy. But like all women, I want to look especially "on my game" that day.

In just 2 weeks, I've lost 4-1/2 pounds by eating clean, upping my exercise, and avoiding junk food.

She is lazy and will never reach her goals at 6 pounds per year. Overweight people generally lose 6 pounds the first week!! (mostly water of course, but STILL.)


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Abc123wife said:


> You need to quit portraying this woman as an innocent. I can say with all assurance that I have NEVER discussed any aspects of my sex life with any boss and most definitely not my father. She is probably not interested in her aging boss, but she most likely enjoys having the hold over you that she has gained by her inappropriate discussions.


Well, I was trying to put this part of the discussion to rest, but I can see this is the most polarizing component. She does openly talk about her sex life with other colleagues and with her father. That is one of the eyeopening things to me. That, if she can discuss these things with her father, I should be able to discuss them with my wife.



> What was the inappropriate response that you once had with her that you mentioned before?


First, remember, we have known each other for three years. We work together daily. We have taken business trips together. We have had a lot of benign conversations.

When she was explaining that her husband rarely wanted to have sex. I asked for clarification on "rarely". She said she wanted it at least several times a week and maybe twice per day. I said "really? Women want sex?". She continued and described many of her friends who also desired sex frequently. I was dumbfounded. I guess I was just that naive. If she had told me they proved that aliens existed I would have been no less surprised. 

I said "what about sex with me?" She immediately said "you're my boss and..." I cut her off. I was tongue tied. I was embarrassed. I didn't even know how to finish my thoughts. I stumbled out the conversation. I later realized I had to clarify. I explained that I was not meaning to proposition her. She heard me say "would you have sex with me?". I was trying to say "why would women not want to have sex with me?" In my mind I was saying "why do you think my wife is not interested in sex with me?". Words have meaning. I was not careful in what I said. 



> And you are currently cheating on your wife. You are having an emotional affair! Not convinced? Just ask yourself if you would feel right having these sex discussions that you have had with your young employee in front of your wife. No? Well, that says it all!


Not currently. Have not had any of "these" discussions since.
I feel I am cheating on her now. Just by typing this... and talking to you. But, I am recognizing the sound advice and sorting out the rubbish.



> In the 8 days you have posted here, you are already rewriting your marital history it seems. Your description of your wife is shifting to more and more negative. You first said she loved you unconditionally. Now she is a fat, ugly, sloth of a wife!


Your words, not mine. I have tried to be fair and objective.



> And your initial description of the pretty young thing you are hung up on: "I have become totally obsessed with the employee. She has grown more and more attractive to me as I get to know her better. And now that I know she craves sex and is not satisfied either, I am fearful of acting on my obsession and embarrassing myself. Every day, I look at her and want to tell her everything that I have been thinking, pondering and wondering."
> 
> You think that type of obsession hasn't changed your view of your wife?


I think you are correct. That it has changed my view of my wife. That's why I am asking for advice. You have pointed out my mistakes. I look forward to your advice. Do you have any?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Well, I was trying to put this part of the discussion to rest, but I can see this is the most polarizing component...
> 
> I said *"what about sex with me?" *  She immediately said "you're my boss and..." I cut her off.


Are you serious???? You asked this of your subordinate, female coworker? I don't care HOW long you've known her.

Concealed, what are you thinking??


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Abc123wife said:


> What height and weight is your wife?
> 
> What are your ages? How old are your kids?
> 
> Did you say your wife is going through menopause?


She is 5'2" and I can only guess that she is about 140 lb. I know, that is not obese. But, again, it's not slim. She has a slight (ectomorph) frame. She would look good at 110 lb. She was 90lb when we met. 

I am 50 she is 49. Kids are 20 and 17. Yes, she is early menopause.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> She is 5'2" and I can only guess that she is about 140 lb. I know, that is not obese. But, again, it's not slim. She has a slight (ectomorph) frame. She would look good at 110 lb. She was 90lb when we met.
> 
> I am 50 she is 49. Kids are 20 and 17. Yes, she is early menopause.


Your wife falls into a normal weight range. She is not even considered to be overweight. And if she is going through menopause and able to lose a pound a month, that is actually good. Better than packing on the pounds that can occur with menopause!

What is your height and weight?

Are you willing to be honest with her and disclose your infidelity? She needs to know about your emotional affair and all of what has been going on with your discussions with your subordinate. And to fully recover, you need to go completely No Contact with this women. That means her moving onto a different job or you finding a new job. This women's husband should also know how she is betraying him in her complaints about him to everyone at work.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
One part: When you love someone they are attractive to you. I still lust after my wife. She is in her 50s. One breast had a partial mastectomy. Graying hair. By a rational standard, not especially attractive. To me - very attractive. I don't mean that I put up with her appearance, I mean that I am very strongly physically attracted to her.

You no longer desire your wife, and perhaps no longer love her.

Another part: This younger fantasy woman. It is easy to get infatuated with someone if you are not careful. Its not just that she is young, but she is relatively unknown - your mind can fill in all the blanks with what you most desire. You end up with a fantasy to compare with the real world. To her, you may be the same. 

Which is cause and effect? Its difficult to tell. I expect that you can't rationally think about how you feel about your wife while there is this fantasy woman in your mind. 

So, what are your options:

1) Stay with your wife. Only do this if you can fall in love with her again. You will need to avoid the other woman.

2) Divorce. Tell her you have fallen out of love. Then pursue other interests. 

3) Affair. Maybe you will discover you really are meant for each other. Maybe you will find that the reality is not nearly as appealing as the fantasy. Maybe you can keep it hidden, maybe not. Only you know how you feel about it morally.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

If OP is not attracted to his wife, he's not attracted.

It doesn't matter if he "should" be attracted to her. He's not. It's not a choice.

Let's just take OPs statements at face value for a minute. His wife doesn't watch her diet, she doesn't exercise at all and she doesn't dress well. 

If this is true, to me this means she puts ZERO effort into her appearance.

Who cares if 5'2"/140lbs is "normal" (which in itself is questionable outside of obese America)?

Do you want your spouse to say, well, she's normal!

Or do you want your spouse to think you're hot and lust after you?

The answer is obvious!


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Conceal

In your other thread you said you told your wife about your EA with your young co-worker. What was her response to that betrayal?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

CDF-- lest you think I am wholly on your team, please do not start harping on your wife to lose weight right now!

Get her to do something fun and active with you (biking, playing tennis, whatever).

Volunteer to do the grocery shopping and get only healthy food.

There are lots of ways to gently encourage better health.

She is going to think you're an ogre if you start talking about how her weight is the issue.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You must consider that your quest for advice may be futile. You have asked for someone here to, in essence, give you a magic potion. A potion that can make someone love (desire) you and/or you them. If such a concoction existed it would be marketed and be the hottest selling commodity in existence. The old adage, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, is not only quite accurate but also very applicable to your situation. Consequently, I believe your waning attraction for your wife is due in large part to her lack of interest in you and in her disregard for your desire and subsequent lack of presentation. If she truly relished your desire for her then she would be highly motivated to present irresistible as opposed to blase and you would respond in kind.

To that end, you are limited to implementing whatever physical improvements you are able to do along with offering your wife whatever psychological manipulation you can present. Beyond that, you are powerless to effect change. Sadly, the severity of your desire to do so is inconsequential save for whatever motivation it may provide you. I know whereof I speak and, like you, I simply have too much invested in a thirty plus year marriage to discard it and attempt another relationship. I haven't the desire nor the inclination.

Many here will advocate divorcing your wife and seeking your happiness and that is certainly your prerogative. However, for me at least, happiness is inexorably tied to too many other aspects of life in an intricate interplay of experiences and not limited to the act of sex alone, life is simply far too multifaceted for me to realize such a concept. I find that my frustration mounts as I exaggeratedly contemplate my misfortune so I force my mind elsewhere. That is the only advice I have found to work for me.

Lastly, I can tell you this with certainty. If your wife does not come to the place on her own where she desires you then it will always seem unrealistic and premeditated as opposed to natural and effortless, which is what you desire it to be.I wish you and all those in your predicament good fortune.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some here have managed to turn their marriages around. Many have not. Of those who have not, some have eventually ended the marriage while others have stayed. At some point, you'll have to decide where you stand. In the meantime, while you can encourage your wife to lose weight obviously you can't make her do it. It's her choice and many women at some point give the struggle up. It doesn't matter what she weighed 30 years ago because she very likely wouldn't look the same at that weight now. The look of youth lasts for a brief time and if you are very thin at 49 you'll likely be carrying a lot more wrinkles than you did at 19. Many women prefer a little extra weight to wrinkles. She may be happy as she is. Or, if not happy, at least resigned at this point and it's possible nothing you say will make much of a difference. Then it comes down to leave or stay. And you're the only one who knows what is best for your situation. So you can try to motivate her (if her weight is truly the real problem). Just be prepared in case it doesn't work.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> You must consider that your quest for advice may be futile. You have asked for someone here to, in essence, give you a magic potion. A potion that can make someone love (desire) you and/or you them. If such a concoction existed it would be marketed and be the hottest selling commodity in existence. The old adage, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, is not only quite accurate but also very applicable to your situation. Consequently, I believe your waning attraction for your wife is due in large part to her lack of interest in you and in her disregard for your desire and subsequent lack of presentation. If she truly relished your desire for her then she would be highly motivated to present irresistible as opposed to blase and you would respond in kind.
> 
> To that end, you are limited to implementing whatever physical improvements you are able to do along with offering your wife whatever psychological manipulation you can present. Beyond that, you are powerless to effect change. Sadly, the severity of your desire to do so is inconsequential save for whatever motivation it may provide you. I know whereof I speak and, like you, I simply have too much invested in a thirty plus year marriage to discard it and attempt another relationship. I haven't the desire nor the inclination.
> ...


I don't mean to ignore any of the prior posts. I am reading them all and absorbing as much as I can. If I don't respond specifically to some, I just don't have the time.

NoChoice, your message is exactly how I feel.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Zanne said:


> Oh, CDF, I knew you would be back! You see, you've been bitten by the MLC bug and now your world is turned upside down. The concerns you have today would not have bothered you ten years ago, at least not nearly as much.
> 
> I also think you are a people pleaser and therein lies your biggest problem because you will rationalize with yourself that the happiness of the people around you matter more and so you will keep up with that charade, meanwhile starting to rebel as you realize that nobody seems concerned for your own happiness. Perhaps you will start to act and think selfishly (think teenager-like). It's a tumultuous time in one's life, although for some it's hardly a bump in the road on their journey of life. This is probably because they are emotionally mature.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you said. 
But I don't think being a "people pleaser" is a problem. We all make sacrifices for each other. I think that is an admirable quality in people.

I am considering this a "phase", a mid-life crisis, empty nest syndrome. I do think I am hypersensitive to this issue, right now. I realize that to quench my thirst, I have to change my thought path. I see no other option. That's what I am trying to do. That's what I think is the best choice for me (and those I love).

The consistent morally appropriate and thoughtful responses from TAM are helping remind me of whom I am.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

C.D.F. 

There are some good books on Mid Life Crisis. One is Listening To Midlife by Mark Gerzon


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I don't find her physically attractive. She doesn't work at herself. She has never regularly exercised or dieted. She gained weight with pregnancy and has never lost it (20 years later). She won't wear makeup or perfume. She has low energy. She falls asleep at 8pm. I could go on, but I think that's part of the problem...I am looking for reasons.


Just divorce her then and let her meet someone else who does find her desirable, someone that wants, loves, and needs her, its obvious that you do not love her anymore, well it sounds it by what you have said.

She deserves to find someone who wants her, and only her. I feel sorry for her.....

You should not be looking for answers from other people to help you find how to love and find your wife attractive, its something you should know....

I cant see things improving by the way that you feel... sorry.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

melw74 said:


> Just divorce her then and let her meet someone else who does find her desirable, someone that wants, loves, and needs her, its obvious that you do not love her anymore, well it sounds it by what you have said.
> 
> She deserves to find someone who wants her, and only her. I feel sorry for her.....
> 
> ...


This is a very good response. I would feel really bad if my husband made a thread like this. I hope his wife doesn't see this thread.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> Who cares if 5'2"/140lbs is "normal" (which in itself is *questionable outside of obese America*)?


:iagree:



Abc123wife said:


> Your wife falls into a normal weight range. She is not even considered to be overweight.


Sorry, but I disagree.

At 5'2", I would say 140 pounds is definitely packing a few extra pounds.

Just for reference, ladies clothing is all "vanity" sized now just to make overweight women feel better about themselves and buy more clothes. Today's size 6 is our mothers' generation size 10 .


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Brigit said:


> This is a very good response. I would feel really bad if my husband made a thread like this. I hope his wife doesn't see this thread.


Cor god, me too. I thought my response was a little harsh at first, but then i thought how i would feel if he was my husband and how hurt i would feel, if it was me he felt this way about, and then i thought what i said was justified.

Also a lot worse if you have your eyes on a younger co worker?.. Very sad.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Regarding the weight thing. Being someone that has struggled with her weight through the years, its not as easy as just losing it. His wife probably knows, like me that shes put it on... but its doing something about it that is hard.

I think losing weight and keeping it off is one of the hardest things there is. I think it would be really hurtful knowing deep down that your partner does not find you attractive anymore and thinks your overweight and frumpy... even if you are.

I am really grateful for the fact that even when i was a size 18-20 my husband still loved me the same as he did when he first met me as a 12-14. He never changed towards me in anyway.

I have often asked him how he still found me attractive and still wanted me when i was overweight.... he just told me he never really noticed that i put it on... It was only from a photo when i was at my heaviest that he saw just how big i got.... I still have that photo:smthumbup:...

But he says i was still me, I was still the same person, the same person he took his vows with and he always loved me and always will.... That is true love for you, well its what i think anyway..... I count myself lucky.

Not going to deny tho that i am happy now being a size 10-12... because i am, but it does get really hard for me.


All i am saying is its not easy losing it all, people fall into a rut, I know i did.... I just hope OP does not give up on her, as his wife could be battling her own personal demons.. Like me.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

melw74 said:


> Cor god, me too. I thought my response was a little harsh at first, but then i thought how i would feel if he was my husband and how hurt i would feel, if it was me he felt this way about, and then i thought what i said was justified.
> 
> Also a lot worse if you have your eyes on a younger co worker?.. Very sad.


I'm also not a fan of bashing other people on the site when they come with their problems. If someone comes here and shares something personal then we owe it to them to answer empathically. 

I don't think the poster is a bad person but it seems like he no longer wants to be with his wife and wants to move on. Divorce seems like a very scary process so maybe he doesn't want to deal with it at this time. IDK.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Brigit said:


> I'm also not a fan of bashing other people on the site when they come with their problems. If someone comes here and shares something personal then we owe it to them to answer empathically.
> 
> I don't think the poster is a bad person but it seems like he no longer wants to be with his wife and wants to move on. Divorce seems like a very scary process so maybe he doesn't want to deal with it at this time. IDK.


I agree with you, but i just cant see him changing the way he feels about her tbh..... I could be wrong, but maybe moving on is the best way forward even if it is daunting.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

happy as a clam said:


> *Ok, I agree. You're not attracted to your lazy, non-active, overweight wife. She won't put on makeup for fix herself up for YOU. She could care less that her body is a total turn-off for you. I agree with you; spouses should take care of their bodies for themselves and for EACH OTHER. Bummer that she didn't get the memo.*
> 
> 5 minutes before my SO gets home from work, I dash to the bathroom and freshen up. That includes lipstick, brushing my hair, swiping my "girly parts" with a wet-wipe, and applying softly scented powder to my girly parts. (One never knows what might happen when he walks through that door )
> 
> ...


Excellent post..







couldn't have said it better... I'd be thinking over the fence too if I was met with a spouse like that...with no oomph or desire....this would zap our spirit & zest for life... what a turn off... best to just GET OUT ...before you find yourself in the arms of another...and *>> * http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21172-never-say-never.html


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## Sakmeht (Oct 14, 2013)

I haven't read the whole thread - but would your wife be willing to try to make herself more desirable to you by actually desiring to have sex with you more often? Would that turn you on if she were coming up to you all hot and horny?

I ask because I am in a 16 year marriage where, although I love my husband, I don't have that desire for sex anymore. When I realized how unloved he was feeling about my lack of initiation in the sex department (as well as the overall lack of sex) I decided to start edging during the day periodically. I heard about it from a kinky friend and decided to give it a shot. 

I edge almost to the point of orgasm several times a day, and keep that up for a couple or few days and my libido rises dramatically. I'm in a constant state of arousal. Not so much that I can't concentrate to get my house chores done, but enough so that my husband can come home and get me immediately ready for sex just by stroking my tit or ass. 

It's really saved us. I rarely have an orgasm, which is fine with me, because when I do have one, my sex drive dies way down and I get into another cold spell unless I immediately start up the edging again. 

Anyway, all this is contingent upon your wife actually wanting to try this. It may take a bit to get started, but who wouldn't enjoy going up and just worshipping their body a few times a day? LOL Heck, even once or twice a day would probably dramatically improve things.


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## MarriedToTheOne (Apr 22, 2015)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I told my story on another thread. Briefly, I am the HD in the all too common HD/LD mismatch. Married 26 years. My frustration surfaced 5 months ago. Had the "talk" with my wife. Overwhelmed her with my revelation. Demanded some change. Learned a lot about sex. Came to understand that she does not need sex like I do. Understand that she does not desire me. That physical appearance is not important to her as it is to me.
> 
> Over the past 5 months, I progressed from
> 
> ...




Just as a side point - and believe me, I see a lot more issues that need to be addressed - but SSRIs are for PSYCHOLOGICAL depression problems, not for creating desire - and in fact, most SSRIs have a strong side effect of INHIBITING libido. If con earned with lighting a fire, throwing buckets of water on it isn't going to help much!


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## MarriedToTheOne (Apr 22, 2015)

Sakmeht said:


> I haven't read the whole thread - but would your wife be willing to try to make herself more desirable to you by actually desiring to have sex with you more often? Would that turn you on if she were coming up to you all hot and horny?
> 
> I ask because I am in a 16 year marriage where, although I love my husband, I don't have that desire for sex anymore. When I realized how unloved he was feeling about my lack of initiation in the sex department (as well as the overall lack of sex) I decided to start edging during the day periodically. I heard about it from a kinky friend and decided to give it a shot.
> 
> ...



Very interesting.

My SO is like this also... as far as not having very much desire - and even less AFTER having an orgasm.

I had never heard of this "edging" technique.

Sounds interesting.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

melw74 said:


> Just divorce her then and let her meet someone else who does find her desirable, someone that wants, loves, and needs her, its obvious that you do not love her anymore, well it sounds it by what you have said.
> 
> She deserves to find someone who wants her, and only her. I feel sorry for her.....
> 
> ...


This is a very harsh response. But, I respect your opinion and I am not saying you are not correct. Your response may be the truth. Please remember, I am struggling with this. I hesitated to allow this to come out of me for what I am now thinking may go back over 20 years. I am reluctant to even discuss this on what I hope is an anonymous forum.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Zanne said:


> Based on his description, I would hardly call it an Emotional Affair. It seemed entirely one-sided. I would say it was an infatuation. Still dangerous to his marriage. Although he is using the situation as a wake up call.
> 
> 
> Why do you feel sorry for his wife? He obviously cares enough about her to seek help for his marriage. He feels what he feels - it is neither right nor wrong and certainly not for any one of us to judge.
> ...


Thank you for your support.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Brigit said:


> I'm also not a fan of bashing other people on the site when they come with their problems. If someone comes here and shares something personal then we owe it to them to answer empathically.
> 
> I don't think the poster is a bad person but it seems like he no longer wants to be with his wife and wants to move on. Divorce seems like a very scary process so maybe he doesn't want to deal with it at this time. IDK.


Thank you. I would like to think I am not a bad person. 

But, I do recognize that what I am openly discussing already condemns me to some. 

If I were the perfect husband, I would love her unconditionally.

But, for whatever reason (MLC, EA, empty nest syndrome, obsession, infatuation, immature emotionally or any of the other causes that have been speculated or proposed) I am struggling to do so at this point in my life.

I have come here, after months or perhaps years, of agony over this to put my thoughts to paper and see what the opinion is of others. Ideally, the opinion of those who have experienced similar situations and have either made mistakes or have found a solution. But, I am absorbing the opinion of all responders and appreciate the thoughtfullness.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Sakmeht said:


> I haven't read the whole thread - but would your wife be willing to try to make herself more desirable to you by actually desiring to have sex with you more often? Would that turn you on if she were coming up to you all hot and horny?
> 
> I ask because I am in a 16 year marriage where, although I love my husband, I don't have that desire for sex anymore. When I realized how unloved he was feeling about my lack of initiation in the sex department (as well as the overall lack of sex) I decided to start edging during the day periodically. I heard about it from a kinky friend and decided to give it a shot.
> 
> ...


This is a fascinating response. I am very intrigued by this. 

Mostly by the fact that although you say you don't desire sex anymore, you also say who wouldn't enjoy going up and just worshipping their body a few times a day.

My wife has never masturbated. I have asked her to try. She did try once at my continually insistence, months ago (with a new toy we bought). I have read where in women, masturbating does tend to maintain a higher level of sex drive, as opposed to in men where masturbating causes an immediate plummet. I tried to sell her on that. Let me back up...

Several months ago, as part of our talks and long drives, I presented a great deal of information and research to her. Part of my revelation was that for the first time I understood and had supporting evidence that my high sex drive was not unusual. I was elated by this. I was normal. I shouldn't be ashamed to want sex a few times per week. 

Conversations on these TAM forums further supported that I should feel justified in discussing her low sex drive and seeing if WE could do something about it. 

I asked her to not take my word for it, but to do some research on things like HD/LD mismatch and consider meeting me in the middle. But, I also wanted her to consider the bigger picture. To look at her lack of energy, stress level, low desire to exercise and even the fact that she stopped working 5 years ago and consider how all of these things are connected.

She listened to me. She didn't criticize me. She said she would look into it. I sent links to interesting studies, journal articles, websites etc. I waited weeks for her response. Nothing.

I also asked her to discuss with her Ob/Gyn to see what she could do to increase libido. She very reluctantly went to the Ob/Gyn. I had to go with her for emotional support. The result was the Rx of the SSRI. She couldn't bring herself to discuss low libido. She instead discussed stress, low energy etc.

So, after that long digression, to answer your question, YES. I would love it if my wife actually DESIRED to have sex with me more. She has tried to HAVE sex with me more. But, that is not the same thing, I have learned.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> This is a very harsh response. But, I respect your opinion and I am not saying you are not correct. Your response may be the truth. Please remember, I am struggling with this. I hesitated to allow this to come out of me for what I am now thinking may go back over 20 years. I am reluctant to even discuss this on what I hope is an anonymous forum.


Sorry if i was, but reading your post i just felt sad for your wife as i was reading. I was just being honest.

I just feel if you have to look for answers on how to find your wife desirable, then you have pretty much reached the end. However from your posts you sound like an ok person, so if you feel you want to work on things good luck to you...

I hope you can work things out. Good luck.


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## whitecat (May 17, 2013)

Forgive me if this has been addressed, but I just quickly skimmed this thread.

Perhaps the problem is with your technique? I mean, are you a good lover, do you take your time to stimulate her and get her aroused. Perhaps she's not experienced good sex with you or anyone for that matter and therefore is not interested. 

I do know though that pressuring her to lose weight and give you more sex isn't going to magically make her crave and desire your body.

For women, generally, wanting sex starts in the mind. She has to feel loved and desired and safe. Telling her she's not attractive does not make her feel safe and wanted.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Conceal...

I'm glad you're still here, as evidenced by your responses today. *Phew*... was afraid we (or ME) might have driven you off.

Buddy (and I am a woman), trust me, I have walked a mile (*or a hundred, or a thousand miles*) in your shoes.

I know what it means to be stuck in a mismatch marriage for DECADES.

Please keep posting, be honest, keep an open mind, and I promise, you will find some direction here.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

It's not a gender thing. I would call a man out for being a slob too.

I get it that women are particularly sensitive about the weight thing.

Men are particularly sensitive about other stuff. 

But just because someone doesn't want to face his/her own insecurities does not mean that the world stops caring about this stuff.

People can't really help who they are attracted to. It's not a decision.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> She is 5'2" and I can only guess that she is about 140 lb. I know, that is not obese. But, again, it's not slim. She has a slight (ectomorph) frame. She would look good at 110 lb. She was 90lb when we met.
> 
> I am 50 she is 49. Kids are 20 and 17. Yes, she is early menopause.


TBH she doesn't sound all that heavy. I'm 46, 5'2 and 128 pounds. Recently, my weight dropped to 125 and I looked too thin. I was 26 when I met my husband and I was 100 pounds which looked good on me at that time. As a woman gets older she looks better with a little more weight. 

I think you just want out.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

alexm said:


> I wouldn't say that just yet.
> 
> What we know about OP's wife is that she has no desire for sex, and doesn't view him (or apparently anybody else) in that way. *I'm married to somebody like that.*
> 
> ...


Since your first wife was also 'like that', having no interest in sex, I wonder if you do get attracted to women who do not have a sexual interest in you....

Maybe because you are giving them the wrong impression, that fits to their own image/life situation. Then you get passive agressive about not having a real sex life?


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Conceal...
> 
> I'm glad you're still here, as evidenced by your responses today. *Phew*... was afraid we (or ME) might have driven you off.
> 
> ...


Yup. Still here. Not scared away, yet. 
It is difficult to fully explain my position. I understand why I am criticized by some.

I wish this were easy. I have said before, I wish I could just be Shallow Hal and see only her as the beautiful person she truly is. But, I have opened a Pandora's Box. I am now analyzing, evaluating and thinking about many things.

I don't know if my lessened desires for her are my fault or hers. Whether it's physical or mental. Temporary or permanent. Fixable or not.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Brigit said:


> TBH she doesn't sound all that heavy. I'm 46, 5'2 and 128 pounds. Recently, my weight dropped to 125 and I looked too thin. I was 26 when I met my husband and I was 100 pounds which looked good on me at that time. As a woman gets older she looks better with a little more weight.
> 
> I think you just want out.


I think I want change, more than I want out. I think that is why I was willing to risk a lot by having the talk, by trying to get her to have sex more often, then by wanting her to want sex, to try new things like a toy, and maybe now my quest for change is to have her loose weight. I am not sure.

My issue with her weight is not that she has just put on weight recently. She put on weight decades ago and always had an excuse for not working to lose it. She would say "when I get my life back". Work, kids, stress, house, car, etc. always got in the way. Recently, I have reached my limit. I am trying to now, make her take control of her life.

I have had an issue with her weight for decades. I want her to be skinny. I like skinny. I met skinny, I married skinny. I ignored my true love of skinny (for better or for worse). 

I don't want to ignore it anymore. That's why I posted.

I hope that her losing weight makes a difference to me...because I know that I am a very visual person. Physical attractiveness is important to me. And yes, I know that makes me selfish and shallow...that's why I am posting here. Most of the posts on these threads are selfish. 

But I also want her to take back control of her life. Her having the determination to loose weight would also be exciting. I have tried to impress upon her the need for her to not just loose weight, but to eat healthier, exercise, reduce stress, take time for herself. To take control of her life for her own sake. She has high blood pressure, Hashimoto's disease, is lactose intolerant, allergic to many things, sinus issues, chronic neck and back pain. She needs to get serious about her health.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

whitecat said:


> Forgive me if this has been addressed, but I just quickly skimmed this thread.
> 
> Perhaps the problem is with your technique? I mean, are you a good lover, do you take your time to stimulate her and get her aroused. Perhaps she's not experienced good sex with you or anyone for that matter and therefore is not interested.


I don't know if I am a good lover. She and I met as virgins. 
I do take time to relax her and stimulate her. Always. There is no other way for her. We have never had a "quickie". She needs everything to be just right. That's often a big problem. Things are rarely "just right". When they are, she does O through oral stimulation.



> I do know though that pressuring her to lose weight and give you more sex isn't going to magically make her crave and desire your body.


Yes, I understand this. At times, I do think I have made her feel pressured. I certainly try to avoid this. But, based on our talks of late, she not only doesn't desire my body, she doesn't DESIRE any BODY.



> For women, generally, wanting sex starts in the mind. She has to feel loved and desired and safe. Telling her she's not attractive does not make her feel safe and wanted.


I have initiated sex through her mind for decades. That's a big part of this. But, I am now learning that not all women are that way.
Part of my recent discovery is that I am just so tired of making her feel loved, desired and safe. I am ready for her to make me feel loved, desired and sexed.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I personally don't think you should diminish what you find attractive by saying it's shallow or selfish. Taking that view just invites your wife to ignore what's important to you.

I think you make a sincere effort to meet her needs to the best of your ability and expect that she does the same.

Losing 10 lbs I'm sure would go a long way with you as a signal.

I think if you are being a great partner for her and she isn't willing to address something that is so critical to your attraction for her, then it is a signal that she doesn't really care whether you're attracted to her or not (which is in itself very unattractive).

I don't get the sense that you are the All Star husband at this point (neither am I), so this is not meant as an invitation to say the ball is 100% in your wife's court.

Just that your needs are not unreasonable and you should be OK with owning them.


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## whitecat (May 17, 2013)

Conceal,

Your wife has a myriad of health problems. Hashimoto's disease is a thyroid disease which really affects one's metabolism. I can understand why she would have a difficult (if not impossible) time losing weight. It causes severe fatigue, depression, allergies. All kinds of really nasty health issues. I feel for her. It can be really overwhelming. 

You seem to be a little lost right now. First, you were resentful that your wife was not HD like yourself. Now, you realize that even if she is HD, you are not really interested.

Not to trivialize your angst, but perhaps you are going through a mid-life crisis? (Your thread reminds me of the movie "American Beauty" with Kevin Spacey fantasizing about his daughter's hot friend)

Are these issues you bring up truly THE issues that need to be addressed. I question this because you have been together for 26 years. I wonder if you would have lasted this long in this marriage if sex and physical attractiveness were really such high needs for you. But I can be wrong in this respect, I suppose that I should not underestimate the amount of suffering and unhappiness one can endure over decades.

To summarize: 1. You are unhappy. 2. You do not desire your wife. 3. Divorce is not an option for you (at least for now)

You have many options:

1. Your wife and yourself seek counseling in the hopes of igniting passion back into your marriage. (Yes!)

2. Continue your life together as is. No changes. (too painful?)

3. Separate for a while and see if that helps clear up your thinking. (sometimes this is helpful)

4. Have an affair, devastate your wife, bring dishonor to yourself (don't do this)

5. Read marriage books, continue to post, do some deep inner work to find yourself. Find out what you need and want. Find out who your true authentic self is. Engage your wife in this. Encourage her to do it with you. This can bring about deep intimacy between two people. (sounds good to me)

6. Nag and pressure your wife to lose weight and make herself look attractive in the hopes that maybe you will start to desire her again. (Can cause deep resentment)

7. Accept your wife just the way she is. Accept that you cannot change her. Accept that this is unacceptable to you and leave her.

8. Accept your wife just the way she is. Explore the possibility that you can desire her again by focusing on her lovable qualities and see where that leads you.

9. ?

Sex is important. But I wanted to stress that it is just one aspect, and for me at least, it is more of a side-effect rather than a thing by itself. I have to be deeply in love, deeply intimate with his mind, feel safe and loved and desired before I can have sex. Sex then becomes an extension of that inner passion expressing itself outwardly and it cannot be repressed. It is not automatic, or a duty, or a physical release. It is passionate intimacy played out physically. I also understand that it can work the other way, physical intimacy can lead to deeper feelings of love.

I commend you for seeking advice, and for doing some deep soul searching. It's a good start.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

alexm said:


> I wouldn't say that just yet.
> 
> What we know about OP's wife is that *she has no desire for sex, *and doesn't view him (or apparently anybody else) in that way. I'm married to somebody like that.
> 
> ...


Her having no desire for sex and constantly rejecting her husband is probably the reason he doesn't desire her anymore.

If things were going great and they were having sex regularly. He more then likely wouldn't be obsessing over another woman. And not thinking about what if.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

I think the problem is "accumulated resentment". 

She's been rejecting you for a while and you've be bottling it. Now she's all yours and the feeling prevents you from getting complete satisfaction. I think you need to heal that: forgive her. You may want to start by talking about it with her. Tell her how her rejection has made you feel. Also tell her the effect on you right now. 

You both need to work on past hurts. Forgive and appreciate each other. sooner or later, love will blossom again.


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## Brigit (Apr 28, 2015)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I have had an issue with her weight for decades. I want her to be skinny. I like skinny. I met skinny, I married skinny. I ignored my true love of skinny (for better or for worse).
> 
> I don't want to ignore it anymore. That's why I posted.
> 
> I hope that her losing weight makes a difference to me...because I know that I am a very visual person. Physical attractiveness is important to me. And yes, I know that makes me selfish and shallow...that's why I am posting here. Most of the posts on these threads are selfish.


I understand you like what you like. Both men and women are visual; some more than others. I don't think it makes you shallow. I'm saying that your wife doesn't sound that heavy but if you have a thing for really skinny then you do. Most men like some curves, not all. 

Weight loss isn't easy. You have to be very motivated to take it off because it takes a lot of work. Most of it is diet. I think 75%. She'll need to watch everything she eats. Forever. It takes a certain mindset to live like that. If she's not motivated then it's not going to happen.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> She is 5'2" and I can only guess that she is about 140 lb. I know, that is not obese. But, again, it's not slim. She has a slight (ectomorph) frame. She would look good at 110 lb. She was 90lb when we met.
> 
> I am 50 she is 49. Kids are 20 and 17. Yes, she is early menopause.


I haven't gotten any further than this in this thread, so this has probably already been said...

You are talking about health risks, and obesity, and this and that.

5'2" and 140lbs is not obese, especially for 49, having had 2 kids.

With all due respect, this is an excuse. You may not actually find her body all that attractive - fine, but love tends to supersede things like that. My wife has fluctuated her weight over the years, and there have been times where I'm less physically attracted to her than before. But I'm still attracted to HER.

Physicality is often the scapegoat for other things. I'm not saying it's not legit - it is - but it's never the ONLY reason for being unattracted to your partner. Especially when they're within the normal or average range as your wife is.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

alexm said:


> 5'2" and 140lbs is not obese, especially for 49, having had 2 kids.
> 
> Physicality is often the scapegoat for other things. I'm not saying it's not legit - it is - but it's never the ONLY reason for being unattracted to your partner. *Especially when they're within the normal or average range as your wife is.*


I hate to focus solely on the weight issue...

The thing is, she has gained FIFTY pounds since they first met. That's nearly *half her original body weight.* Someone gaining half-again their body weight would be a pretty drastic change in appearance.

I'm sure OP feels like it's a bit of the old bait-and-switch. Or she "let herself go" and this is not what he thought he was getting.

I agree that the thyroid issues can be a major contributor to her weight issues. She should be evaluated to make sure she is ont the right thyroid meds and correct dose. But even more than losing weight, I think OP would start to find her more attractive if she showed some effort towards living a healthier lifestyle -- better diet, more exercise, at least an effort. And a better diet might lead to fewer allergies as I'm guessing much of her allergies are food-related.

One more thing... Americans are one of the fattest people on the planet so we tend to "accept" much higher weight ranges as "normal". 140 lbs at 5'2" is pretty chunky in my opinion. I'm 5'5" and I start to feel chunky when I hit the 135 mark. So it's hard for me to imagine being 3" shorter with all that weight. Not to mention, carrying around all the extra weight is contributing to her feeling lethargic, low energy, fatigued. And it's incredibly taxing on your joints.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I agree that the thyroid issues can be a major contributor to her weight issues. She should be evaluated to make sure she is ont the right thyroid meds and correct dose.


Ah the thyroid....

Never hear about that in Europe... and meds involved... so people earn on this.

How is it possible.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

See_Listen_Love said:


> ...*so people earn on this.*


:scratchhead:

Not sure I get your meaning...


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

I really think your desire for her would rise dramatically if YOU FELT SHE DESIRED YOU!

These really is nothing more attractive sexually for a man than a woman who is acting (feeling being) sexual, in the mood, or whatever word you want to use for it.

With wife #1 (LD) I craved that so badly.....but when it happened 20 years after marriage, it shocked me so much..and was so rare still...that it led to the end of the marriage.


With wife #2 (HD) Im only interested in sex with her when she is interested in sex. SPECIFICALLY IM INTERESTED IN HER WHEN SHE IS H*&^y. Although she happens to be a young knockout anyway.....if she is not in the mood for some reason (usually when full after eating, on her period, exausted or whatever)..Im much less interested myself.

If your wife is not interested in sex, she is just not going to be that attractive and its natural for you to get a crush/desire someone else.

We all want to be desired...one of the biggies that led me to divorce was NOT feeling that my wife was sexual, sexy, desiring sex, h**^Y, etc.

Its NOT just YOU. If she actually cares, and wants you to be attracted to her, she has to actually act sexy.









Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Yup. Still here. Not scared away, yet.
> It is difficult to fully explain my position. I understand why I am criticized by some.
> 
> I wish this were easy. I have said before, I wish I could just be Shallow Hal and see only her as the beautiful person she truly is. But, I have opened a Pandora's Box. I am now analyzing, evaluating and thinking about many things.
> ...


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> Not sure I get your meaning...


Companies in the medical sector earn on the medicine, maybe that explains the occurrence of thyroid problems in the US...


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> You forgot to mention that the woman you ARE obsessed with having sex with is your much younger female subordinate at work.


Your being unkind in your assumption here, perhaps! 

After being treated like sh*t since the kids came long, I just long to be treated like a human being once more. By someone from the opposite sex. (If they treat me as a sexual human being, so much the better, and I can feel the testosterone rush. But even without that is fine.)

I often find myself attract to older women, who are more generous with their affections (perhaps because they find less takers in a man-centric age-biased world). Most of all, they just treat you human!


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

My suspicion is that you would start wanting her terribly if she shut up to you, and offer you zero or almost-zero sex!

It's often a demand-and-supply thing. The more we get, the less we want it.

I think the advantage of our older sexual partners is that we know and understand each other's bodies very well. Of course, we might not get the high from a new partner. And familiarity sometimes breeds contempt. But, given the chance, I'd always go along with the known partner than strike out for someone wholly new...

I'm not a use-and-throw consumerist in my (sexual) relationships.



Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I told my story on another thread. Briefly, I am the HD in the all too common HD/LD mismatch. Married 26 years. My frustration surfaced 5 months ago. Had the "talk" with my wife. Overwhelmed her with my revelation. Demanded some change. Learned a lot about sex. Came to understand that she does not need sex like I do. Understand that she does not desire me. That physical appearance is not important to her as it is to me.
> 
> Over the past 5 months, I progressed from
> 
> ...


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