# Pornography and Masturbation



## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> Maybe I'll start a thread...


If only!

Since you haven't started a thread and are still threadjacking on about it, here you go.

As it turns out pornography, erotica, nudity and or masturbation won't make you go blind.


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## BioFury




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## uhtred

But they will kill you. Studies show that everyone who masturbates to porn eventually dies. 

Its quite possible that if you didn't masturbate, you would live forever, but how could you ever find out.....






Personal said:


> If only!
> 
> Since you haven't started a thread and are still threadjacking on about it, here you go.
> 
> As it turns out pornography, erotica, nudity and or masturbation won't make you go blind.


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## TheDudeLebowski

This thread is a disappointment. I thought I was going to find out about some new titles and new pornos to add to the collection. 

On an unrelated note, ive noticed my eye sight has been getting worse and worse, and for some reason my left forearm is massive and ripped compared to my right one.


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## Personal

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This thread is a disappointment. I thought I was going to find out about some new titles and new pornos to add to the collection.












Speaking of titles, the above pictured books live in our bedroom next to our bed, pending the purchase of another bookshelf.

They all feature nudity, erotica and some of them feature pornography as well.

Anyway it's cool stuff if you like that kind of thing.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> On an unrelated note, ive noticed my eye sight has been getting worse and worse, and for some reason my left forearm is massive and ripped compared to my right one.


My wife views less pornography than I do, yet her eyesight is worse than mine. Maybe I ought to encourage her to look at more porn. :wink2:


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## FieryHairedLady

He started a thread in the political section.

I haven't seen many post from him on it though. Maybe he is taking names to use against us later.


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## badsanta

@CatholicDad I think you have few problems that people perceive from your debates on porn. While you stand firm with A), perhaps you do not realize you are insulting everyone that falls into category B). Then you are also getting some folks C) all excited!

A) You feel porn is universally immoral and harmful to marriages.

B) You shame any alternate form of sexuality other than what you see as religiously faithful.

To many the idea of porn is synonymous with letting go of various forms of personal shame they might feel towards their own sexuality. It might be a process of self discovery in which someone discovers that their sexual desires are actually normal and common which in turn helps them to be a more loving husband or wife (because they are not ashamed of themselves). 


...then you have:

C) Some folks actually develop a sexual fetish for humiliation. 

Yes there are some people that get there jollies by being humiliated or watching others being humiliated. Tell them they will destroy their life by using porn, and now you have them all excited to NOT go and do exactly that or to NOT watch others doing so. These are the folks that might pull up to this thread with a bucket of popcorn and hope it gets exciting. Then afterwards they might go watch porn that is purposely censored because it is really exciting to not be able to see something forbidden.

...wait a minute... Badsanta are you telling us that there are entire cultures of people that enjoy being humiliated? ...YES! Shame can be a very powerful and enjoyable thing when done just right!



















Thus the problems with porn. Try and shame some folks, and you are only helping them to enjoy it that much more! Offer these people money and beg them to watch porn and suddenly there is no interest and all you will hear is crickets chirping. 

Just say'n @CatholicDad so you are now aware at what you are doing for some people! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## CharlieParker

A Japanese wiener, yum! You know there is thread for that, even uncensored.



badsanta said:


>


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## MaiChi

There should be some genuine research done on porn. There is a lot said about it but is any of it true? 

There are suggestions that it is harmful but is that true.?

Why do some people get addicted to it? 
Why is it interesting to some in the first place? 
Why do some hate it? 

Why do I not care either way? 

Who is going to do the research? What if they get addicted midway through and forget their terms of reference?


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## SunCMars

I agree. Porn is harmful.

It portrays sex without any cautions, without boundaries. 

It causes the spread of venereal disease.

It gives young people a biased view, that sex is just sex, that it has no special meaning.

It disinclines people to get married. Free love is good, commitment is bad.

In porn, everything is OK as long as it gives pleasure to at least one of the participants.

It lowers the value of women, making them sex objects, mere blow job queens.

It makes the average man and the average women feel insecure, that they cannot measure up. And compared to those people displayed on porn, few can compete.

It obligates women to act like porn stars to get, to keep a man.

Plus, those that see value in porn tend to emulate the actions in their bedroom. Or want to.
They push their spouse into sexual actions that the spouse is not comfortable with.

And lastly, it is very dangerous to young girls. Women are the gatekeepers on morality.
Once they become debauched, all of society will suffer.

I am far from a prude. I love sex and intimacy......a lot.
Oh, yeah!

I fear for our society. Porn will hasten its fall.
Marriages will be avoided.
Infidelity will mean nothing.

Drugs kill our bodies, our minds.
Porn kills our morals, our self respect and [with drugs] can kill our souls.

We are men and women, not leg humping dogs, not *****es in heat. 
Uh, not for long.

Look at Europe.


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## CatholicDad

Well said SunCMars.

It also hurts young men who get exposed to it, view it for years and lose the ability to have sex with an actual woman. This is apparently a real thing.

It's also just plain creepy. 

Finally, I do believe in hell and sadly I think people just blatantly enjoying it probably could doom themselves for eternal punishment there (I know, I'm a religious fanatic!).

I think it also interferes with the sacred marital relationship between a man and woman, naturally speaking. Men are supposed to have this deep desire that keeps them pursuing and seeking to love their wives... Think porn throws this out of sync dramatically. Wives lose when their husbands don't hotly and insanely pursue them throughout their marriage. Men on porn tend to lose the "fire" for their wives especially as they age and just basically reprogram their bodies/minds for porn.

Could go on...


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## CatholicDad

Personal said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is a disappointment. I thought I was going to find out about some new titles and new pornos to add to the collection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of titles, the above pictured books live in our bedroom next to our bed, pending the purchase of another bookshelf.
> 
> They all feature nudity, erotica and some of them feature pornography as well.
> 
> Anyway it's cool stuff if you like that kind of thing.
> 
> 
> 
> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> 
> On an unrelated note, ive noticed my eye sight has been getting worse and worse, and for some reason my left forearm is massive and ripped compared to my right one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My wife views less pornography than I do, yet her eyesight is worse than mine. Maybe I ought to encourage her to look at more porn. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
Click to expand...

I hope your kids or grandkids don't get to hangout or sleep in there.


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## TheDudeLebowski

CatholicDad said:


> I hope your kids or grandkids don't get to hangout or sleep in there.


Says a Catholic lol. You would rather our grandkids hang out with your priests? LMAO


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## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> I hope your kids or grandkids don't get to hangout or sleep in there.


I hope our kids don't get to sleep in our bedroom either. Since we weaned our kids off sleeping in our bedrooms, when they were toddlers many years ago.

That said our adult son has recently looked at a couple of those books, following getting permission to do so.

If it makes you feel any better, we have also had some nude non-pornographic paintings of different women as rendered by me. Framed on different walls in the homes we have lived in since 2006.

One of the nice things about my nude drawings and paintings, is that other people buy some of my work to put on their own walls.


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## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> Could go on...


Please do, I've got popcorn.


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## arbitrator

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This thread is a disappointment. I thought I was going to find out about some new titles and new pornos to add to the collection.
> 
> On an unrelated note, ive noticed my eye sight has been getting worse and worse, and for some reason my left forearm is massive and ripped compared to my right one.


*To that end, let's just say that I've been progressively going blind ever since my college and post-grad days!*


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## happyhusband0005

CatholicDad said:


> Well said SunCMars.
> 
> It also hurts young men who get exposed to it, view it for years and lose the ability to have sex with an actual woman. This is apparently a real thing.
> 
> It's also just plain creepy.
> 
> Finally, I do believe in hell and sadly I think people just blatantly enjoying it probably could doom themselves for eternal punishment there (I know, I'm a religious fanatic!).
> 
> I think it also interferes with the sacred marital relationship between a man and woman, naturally speaking. Men are supposed to have this deep desire that keeps them pursuing and seeking to love their wives... Think porn throws this out of sync dramatically. Wives lose when their husbands don't hotly and insanely pursue them throughout their marriage. Men on porn tend to lose the "fire" for their wives especially as they age and just basically reprogram their bodies/minds for porn.
> 
> Could go on...


CD I think were you lose people in these arguments is you speak as if the potential problems with porn are universal, and can be attributed to every man who watches porn. I can say for me I have been watching porn somewhat regularly since I was a teenager, and I love and desire my wife more today than I did 10 or 20 years ago, so while you assumptions are very likely true for some people who watch porn it is not true for all, and likely not true for the majority. It's like drinking, some people can go out have a few drinks and have no problem, others are nasty drunks and become someone else when drunk, these people have a problem and even though they might not be addicted they should avoid it, same goes for porn.

Also for me as my faith has led me to the personal belief that there is no heaven or hell so I'm not concerned with eternal damnation, I am comfortable with my faith in that.


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## Mr.Married

Better stop watching super hero movies because many of those can fly. By watching that many people will start jumping off buildings because they believe they can do the same. Maybe Marvel
should be on the zealot chopping block as well.

As a person that was raised catholic and an alter boy for many years with a mother that worked for the church ......... I can absolutely tell you that Catholicism and morals do not go hand in hand.
I've been done with "religion" for quite some time now.


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## CatholicDad

I think you guys all know that porn is wrong.... 

You all love to paint the entire Church as evil because of a few bad priests as I suppose then you can justify your own depravity.


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## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> I think you guys all know that porn is wrong....


Are you part of a marketing campaign trying to encourage more pornography consumption?

Many people really don't care either way, yet here you are always carrying on about it.

Seriously if you PM me a postal address I can send you some porn DVDs, since we haven't watched them in circa 15 years. Otherwise they're just going to waste in my possession, whereas for you it might take the edge off of your pornography obsession if you watch them.


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## PigglyWiggly

Personal said:


> Are you part of a marketing campaign trying to encourage more pornography consumption?
> 
> Many people really don't care either way, yet here you are always carrying on about it.
> 
> Seriously if you PM me a postal address I can send you some porn DVDs, since we haven't watched them in circa 15 years. Otherwise they're just going to waste in my possession, whereas for you it might take the edge off of your *pornography obsession* if you watch them.


You know by his rants that he watches more porn than anyone here. Hopefully, he will starting giving us links to stay away from.


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## Andy1001

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This thread is a disappointment. I thought I was going to find out about some new titles and new pornos to add to the collection.
> 
> On an unrelated note, ive noticed my eye sight has been getting worse and worse, and for some reason my left forearm is massive and ripped compared to my right one.


Try changing hands.


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## She'sStillGotIt

CatholicDad said:


> You all love to paint the entire Church as evil because of a few bad priests as I suppose then you can justify your own depravity.


 Just as _you_ continually paint *ALL* human beings who occasionally indulge in porn as weak, depraved, sexual deviant degenerates who no longer have the capacity to know the difference between right and wrong and will all end up dying in a homeless shelter or out on the streets - homeless, addicted to porn, and all alone in the world. 

It's kind of comical that you keep pushing the fact that everyone should engage in the "passionate pursuit of one's spouse" into old age, but aren't *you* the guy who can't get any action at home because you've got more kids than a Romanian orphanage?


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## Fozzy

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Just as _you_ continually paint *ALL* human beings who occasionally indulge in porn as weak, depraved, sexual deviant degenerates who no longer have the capacity to know the difference between right and wrong and will all end up dying in a homeless shelter or out on the streets - homeless, addicted to porn, and all alone in the world.
> 
> It's kind of comical that you keep pushing the fact that everyone should engage in the "passionate pursuit of one's spouse" into old age, but aren't *you* the guy who can't get any action at home because you've got *more kids than a Romanian orphanage*?


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm stealing this.


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## SunCMars

Personal said:


> Please do, I've got popcorn.


Yes, you got pop corn, and you are giving us pop culture answers to an age old problem of morality and a better way of living.

You are expecting Catholic Dad to take on the sins of the Catholic Church.

That is above his pay grade. 

He loves the theology and the teachings derived from the Bible.

He is faithful, even though some in the flock, including some priests are not.

I think Catholic Priests should be able to marry, if they choose to.
The same with Nuns, if they choose to. 

The Church does have married laymen and lay women who assist the priests and nuns but are limited in the religious duties they can deliver.
While helpful, it is not working.

Disparage the sinner, not his innocent faithful brother.


Just Sayin'



[THRD]


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## SunCMars

Oh, and another thing.....

We need opposing opinions.
We need those who believe in God, not just in men, in women, exclusively.

Men are flawed, purposely.

Flawed is a concept without an adequate definition.

Being flawed allows competing beings to work their talents, or lack of it.
Mankind needs diversity to face life's adversity.

The strongest pass on their life, the weak die out.


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## Ynot

SunCMars said:


> Oh, and another thing.....
> 
> We need opposing opinions.
> We need those who believe in God, not just in men, in women, exclusively.
> 
> Men are flawed, purposely.
> 
> Flawed is a concept without an adequate definition.
> 
> Being flawed allows competing beings to work their talents, or lack of it.
> Mankind needs diversity to face life's adversity.
> 
> The strongest pass on their life, the weak die out.


I may have missed it. Where has anyone on this thread claimed to believe in God? I have seen a lot of sputum about religion, but nothing about God.
OTOH, how on earth did Rome survive for all those years, what with all the porn the festooned their walls with, Heck they even did more than just a few drawings. The actually made mosaics, permanently affixed to the walls, so that us sinners were able to find them centuries later. 

Heck for that matter, what about the Egyptians, Greeks, Indus, Chinese etc.


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## SunCMars

Ynot said:


> I may have missed it. Where has anyone on this thread claimed to believe in God? I have seen a lot of sputum about religion, but nothing about God.
> OTOH, how on earth did Rome survive for all those years, what with all the porn the festooned their walls with, Heck they even did more than just a few drawings. The actually made mosaics, permanently affixed to the walls, so that us sinners were able to find them centuries later.
> 
> Heck for that matter, what about the Egyptians, Greeks, Indus, Chinese etc.


Sure, they did survive a long time.
They finally died out.

Why?

*Many causes*, one being massive corruption, 
The collapse of any form of cohesive civilization.
From lack of faith in anything, save gold.

They got weak, the 'other' Barbarians finished them off.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

I do believe I've said I believe in God.

If haven't been clear, I whole heartedly believe in God.

Tx,


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## threelittlestars

Masturbation: 

So, I have leaned all over the board on this subject, but now I am firmly that masturbation though (NATURAL) it is not healthy. (Gluttony) Natural also, but healthy? (Selfishness) NATURAL...healthy? 

So Masturbation is a fun thing. Hell, i done it too! But there is something that it supports, (SELF GRATIFICATION, AND INSTANT GRATIFICATION) not all instant gratification things are good for us. It is a GATE way DRUG so to speak. LOL. 

If you masturbate compulsively then you could possibly do MANY other things compulsively out of habit. Well jacking off felt good and it didnt hurt me, so what is the harm in snorting this line of cocaine, eating this entire bag of chips, sleep with this stranger...etc. 

I know these are extreme jumps in many peoples minds but if you are a CHRONIC masturbator, are there other avenues in life that you perhaps should not do and are unhealthy for us in the long run? Really evaluate what good things masturbation has brought to your life OTHER that the brief and instantaneous good feels you got in that three min period of time. 

I don't really believe that it is a terrible thing to masturbate, but to just ALLOW ones self do do it because you cant seem to see any harm in it is sorta short sighted. 

I now dont masturbate. I have also not had sex in almost three months... Long story. I feel tense...but I will live.


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## peacem

Personal said:


> Speaking of titles, the above pictured books live in our bedroom next to our bed, pending the purchase of another bookshelf.
> 
> They all feature nudity, erotica and some of them feature pornography as well.
> 
> Anyway it's cool stuff if you like that kind of thing.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife views less pornography than I do, yet her eyesight is worse than mine. Maybe I ought to encourage her to look at more porn. :wink2:


I tried to send my collection of sex books (mostly educational) to a charity shop but they would not allow them!?? A few months later they were advertising for 'women's' books. I thought that was a bit sexist so I enquired what 'women's books' meant. The lady said Fifty Shades of Grey kind of books. There is clearly a dichotomy of opinion of what is 'good' sexual literature and what is not. A double standard does exist. I mean who gets to say what is OK and what is not? Bizarre. Anyway..my teenage daughter was totally aware of our collection but knew the meaning of privacy. Now that she is sexually active I know to respect her privacy i.e I know my boundaries.


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## Personal

SunCMars said:


> Yes, you got pop corn, and you are giving us pop culture answers to an age old problem of morality and a better way of living.
> 
> You are expecting Catholic Dad to take on the sins of the Catholic Church.
> 
> That is above his pay grade.
> 
> He loves the theology and the teachings derived from the Bible.
> 
> He is faithful, even though some in the flock, including some priests are not.
> 
> I think Catholic Priests should be able to marry, if they choose to.
> The same with Nuns, if they choose to.
> 
> The Church does have married laymen and lay women who assist the priests and nuns but are limited in the religious duties they can deliver.
> While helpful, it is not working.
> 
> Disparage the sinner, not his innocent faithful brother.
> 
> 
> Just Sayin'
> 
> 
> 
> [THRD]


At no point in this discussion have I mentioned Catholicism, or it's imagined deity, or a perhaps possible though not likely deity

You are evidently mistaking me for someone else, or are instead choosing to misrepresent me.

Of course since you want to go there, let's...

Raping children is a problem that is far greater than the Roman Catholic Church. That said the before mentioned church has at a high level, a considerable record of protecting the perpetrators of those heinous crimes. While affording them many opportunities to continue to indulge in their vile conduct, even when their crimes were known.

While I am on a roll, let's go into Godwin's Law territory.

Now there were some people who for all their flaws like Schindler amongst others, were members of the NSDAP (Nazi Party). Yet they helped to save some people's lives from the ovens of Nazi excess. Yet one should make no mistake, when an organisation indulges in heinous crimes. The choice to still identify as a member of that organisation, without working strenuously to stop such depravity is an endorsement of that depravity.

Incidentally the Catholic Priest that married my ex-wife and I, eventually went to jail for sexually abusing children. Oh and my wife has just told me that the Catholic Priest that married her brother, also went to jail for raping children.

As to lay people in the church, I think their participation and acceptance of what the Roman Catholic Church has done and is still doing. Is hardly an endorsement of their moral underpinnings.

Onto the disparage the sinner Schtick. I am an (agnostic) atheist, so absent any repeatedly testable and verifiable evidence that proves the existence of a deity or deities. I will continue to presume there are no gods. So this sin nonsense means nothing to me, because I don't think people are by default sinners.

Having said that being someone who is inclined by personality, to be somewhat judgemental. I find almost everything that CatholicDad proclaims here, to be morally repugnant.

Of which having known many Catholics in person I haven't met anyone who has carried on about pornography at all.

Now back to pornogrpahy and masturbation.

If you want to masturbate, feel free to masturbate. Likewise if you don't want to masturbate, feel free not to. Likewise if you want to look at porn, look at it. If you don't want to look at it, then don't.


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## Fozzy

threelittlestars said:


> Masturbation:
> 
> So, I have leaned all over the board on this subject, but now I am firmly that masturbation though (NATURAL) it is not healthy. (Gluttony) Natural also, but healthy? (Selfishness) NATURAL...healthy?
> 
> So Masturbation is a fun thing. Hell, i done it too! But there is something that it supports, (SELF GRATIFICATION, AND INSTANT GRATIFICATION) not all instant gratification things are good for us. It is a GATE way DRUG so to speak. LOL.
> 
> If you masturbate compulsively then you could possibly do MANY other things compulsively out of habit. Well jacking off felt good and it didnt hurt me, so what is the harm in snorting this line of cocaine, eating this entire bag of chips, sleep with this stranger...etc.
> 
> I know these are extreme jumps in many peoples minds but if you are a CHRONIC masturbator, are there other avenues in life that you perhaps should not do and are unhealthy for us in the long run? Really evaluate what good things masturbation has brought to your life OTHER that the brief and instantaneous good feels you got in that three min period of time.
> 
> I don't really believe that it is a terrible thing to masturbate, but to just ALLOW ones self do do it because you cant seem to see any harm in it is sorta short sighted.
> 
> I now dont masturbate. I have also not had sex in almost three months... Long story. I feel tense...but I will live.


Serious question... how would you say your life has been made better by not masturbating?


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## Handy

Some people are extremely over weight, so is food bad OR can food be used to excess? 

Apply masturbation and erotica=what many people call porn in a similar fashion to food.

A little AA, Hi my name is Handy, I am a recovering (denomination_____ ) from the shame based teaching I received, based on religious beliefs as I was growing up.

There are billions of stars in the Mikey Way Galaxy and the Earth is the only place God made people to live on? Then how many galaxies are out there?

* While estimates among different experts vary, an acceptable range is between 100 billion and 200 billion galaxies, said Mario Livio, an astrophysicist at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland.*
https://www.space.com/25303-how-many-galaxies-are-in-the-universe.html

So we have a billion times a billion stars for an estimate and many stars have planets orbiting the star and God came to these Jewish people and made them sort of special messengers so they could spread the gospel and enlighten people to try to live a sinless life.

What about the billion times a billion, times some of the potential planets. What! they don't count?

Most religions are based on believing the story, what ever the story is for that religion. Physics is based on observable and measurable data.


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## Luminous

Fozzy said:


> Serious question... how would you say your life has been made better by not masturbating?


I'd say life has been pretty hard


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## Mr.Married

threelittlestars said:


> Masturbation:
> 
> So, I have leaned all over the board on this subject, but now I am firmly that masturbation though (NATURAL) it is not healthy. (Gluttony) Natural also, but healthy? (Selfishness) NATURAL...healthy?
> 
> So Masturbation is a fun thing. Hell, i done it too! But there is something that it supports, (SELF GRATIFICATION, AND INSTANT GRATIFICATION) not all instant gratification things are good for us. It is a GATE way DRUG so to speak. LOL.
> 
> If you masturbate compulsively then you could possibly do MANY other things compulsively out of habit. Well jacking off felt good and it didnt hurt me, so what is the harm in snorting this line of cocaine, eating this entire bag of chips, sleep with this stranger...etc.
> 
> I know these are extreme jumps in many peoples minds but if you are a CHRONIC masturbator, are there other avenues in life that you perhaps should not do and are unhealthy for us in the long run? Really evaluate what good things masturbation has brought to your life OTHER that the brief and instantaneous good feels you got in that three min period of time.
> 
> I don't really believe that it is a terrible thing to masturbate, but to just ALLOW ones self do do it because you cant seem to see any harm in it is sorta short sighted.
> 
> I now dont masturbate. I have also not had sex in almost three months... Long story. I feel tense...but I will live.


Odd .....because I've never snorted coke, ate a whole bag of chips, or slept with a stranger. I'm also not tense....get laid on the regular.....and I'll live too !!!


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## threelittlestars

Fozzy said:


> Serious question... how would you say your life has been made better by not masturbating?


Good question. Since not doing it, I have eaten less and when I'm tense I work it out differently which has led to healthier choices over all. Life is not magically PERFECT but the choice to not masturbate has let to other wiser choices over all. So I can hope it will snow ball more. 

Im WAY less impulsive right now. i dont know if it can ALL be attributed to not masturbating, but I certainly am not being NEARLY as impulsive.


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## threelittlestars

Mr.Married said:


> Odd .....because I've never snorted coke, ate a whole bag of chips, or slept with a stranger. I'm also not tense....get laid on the regular.....and I'll live too !!!


i dont care what you do. Your realizations on life are your own. The choices you make in your life are your own. But I'm not buying into it ALWAYS being healthy.


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## Elizabeth001

@threelittlestars ...if not masturbating works for you then great. Please do not assume that everyone should follow suit nor insinuate in your posts that they should. Your POV sets women and their power back a generation or two. When your bladder is full, do you wait to pee? Good God woman...get some help. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## threelittlestars

Elizabeth001 said:


> @threelittlestars ...if not masturbating works for you then great. Please do not assume that everyone should follow suit nor insinuate in your posts that they should. Your POV sets women and their power back a generation or two. When your bladder is full, do you wait to pee? Good God woman...get some help.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No it does not. I mentioned NO religious reasoning. But I did mention PSYCHOLOGICAL reasoning. I am pretty feminist. i DID NOT insinuate that one should not do it. ALL i said was it is NOT inherently healthy and it can lead to unhealthy perspectives. 

Not sinful, not guilty ridden... Just plain REASONING. 

good god elizabeth, you dont have a clue who you are talking to.


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## personofinterest

Threelittle, I know you've been going through a lot. It's easy to be extremely reactive when in crisis. I just want to make sure you are okay.


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## CatholicDad

Wow, people attack if you simply say you aren't masturbating. Very open minded.

Personal, the abuses in the church are so exceptionally rare it would be similar to you not wanting to be Canadian if an official there was found to be guilty of the same. I've been in the church most of my life and never even met a bad priest. I think you exaggerate because you personally hate the church.

I'd say you are more judgemental than I am. I may hate porn, but you hate the largest charitable organization in the world. You share more in common with abusing priests than I do (they're also atheistic church haters).


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## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> Personal, the abuses in the church are so exceptionally rare it would be similar to you not wanting to be Canadian if an official there was found to be guilty of the same.


Wake Up!



> The Pennsylvania Supreme Court made public one of the broadest-ever investigations into Catholic clerical sex abuse of minors in the United States in August. The document, a 1,400-page grand jury report, is the result of an 18-month probe by Pennsylvania state Attorney General Josh Shapiro, and names at least 300 priests accused of child sex abuse by more than 1,000 victims throughout the state.


Here is a link to the above mentioned report: http://media-downloads.pacourts.us/InterimRedactedReportandResponses.pdf?cb=42148



> Of all Catholic priests included in the survey who ministered between 1950 and 2010, taking into account the duration of ministry, 7 per cent were alleged perpetrators.
> 
> The weighted proportion of alleged perpetrators in specific Catholic Church authorities included: the St John of God Brothers (40.4 per cent); the Christian Brothers (22.0 per cent); the Benedictine Community of New Norcia (21.5 per cent); the Salesians of Don Bosco (20.9 per cent); the Marist Brothers (20.4 per cent); the Diocese of Sale in Victoria (15.1 per cent); the De La Salle Brothers (13.8 per cent) and the Archdiocese of Adelaide in South Australia (2.4 per cent).





> Complaints of child sexual abuse were not reported to police or other civil authorities, contributing to the Catholic Church being able to keep such matters ‘in-house’ and out of the public gaze. Had Catholic Church authorities reported all complaints to police, they could have prevented further sexual abuse of children.
> In some cases, leaders of Catholic Church authorities were reluctant to remove alleged perpetrators from positions that involved contact with children. Some alleged perpetrators were allowed to remain in religious ministry in the same positions and locations for extended periods of time after allegations of child sexual abuse were raised; in some cases there were further allegations of the sexual abuse of children. If appropriate protective steps had been taken, subsequent abuse may have been avoided.


Here is a link to the part of the Australian Royal Commission Report findings that the above quotes are drawn from: https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/final_report_-_volume_16_religious_institutions_book_1.pdf

https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/religious-institutions

All of those official documents detailing those investigations aren't pleasant reading.

Let's not forget Ireland, Boston and many other places.

*What man looks the other way?*


----------



## Mr.Married

Personal said:


> Wake Up!
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to the above mentioned report: http://media-downloads.pacourts.us/InterimRedactedReportandResponses.pdf?cb=42148
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to the part of the Australian Royal Commission Report findings that the above quotes are drawn from: https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/final_report_-_volume_16_religious_institutions_book_1.pdf
> 
> https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/religious-institutions
> 
> All of those official documents detailing those investigations aren't pleasant reading.
> 
> Let's not forget Ireland, Boston and many other places.
> 
> *What man looks the other way?*



I've seen all the "in house" I needed to see.......

Catholicism ...... man made ritualistic programming setup for power, control, wealth, and secrecy 

Christianity ...... not the same as above

I never saw in the Bible where it dictated the requirement of Catholicism .... or a priest needing to be director to God.


----------



## Personal

Mr.Married said:


> Christianity ...... not the same as above


This problem is larger than the Roman Catholic Church and religion. Although they are likely to be the greatest per capita perpetrators and protectors of such crimes, as far as any organisations are concerned.

They have significant company amongst other Christian denominations, religions and non religious organisations and individuals as well.

The Australian Royal Commission also examined child sexual abuse allegations against the Anglican Church, The Salvation Army, Jehovah's Witnesses, Australian Christian Churches and affiliated Pentecostal Churches, Yeshiva Bondi and Melbourne.

They also looked at; historical residential institutions, contemporary out-of-home care, schools, sport, recreation, arts, culture, community and hobby groups, plus the contemporary detention environment.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

threelittlestars said:


> No it does not. I mentioned NO religious reasoning. But I did mention PSYCHOLOGICAL reasoning. I am pretty feminist. i DID NOT insinuate that one should not do it. ALL i said was *it is NOT inherently healthy *and it can lead to unhealthy perspectives.
> 
> Not sinful, not guilty ridden... Just plain REASONING.
> 
> good god elizabeth, you dont have a clue who you are talking to.


Actually, it does have inherently healthy aspects. Every study I know of... and reasoning.... indicate that there are inherently healthy outcomes (within bounds of course... it most certainly can lead to unhealthy perspectives, which is no different than anything else in life if taken to excess). 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-12-masturbation-healthbenefits.html


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Luminous said:


> I'd say life has been pretty hard


Why not make it a little easier? 

Take the pressure off a bit, so to speak.

The do a couple lines of (your choice) (I'm not promoting drug use) or smoke a little, then have a night of wild monkey porn sex!!???

If you're a responsible adult, what's wrong with a mental health couple vacation days?

Semi humor, semi serious here.


----------



## Where there's a will

Religion is mans attempt to reach God. Christianity is not a religion, it is Gods attempt to reach man. There are no hard rules but encouragement and forgiveness when it is asked for both by God and people.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Mast can be a way not to further brief thoughts of fooling around with others outside of marriage, just by resetting the urge for sex a couple more days if a couple is in a funk about something or another.


----------



## CatholicDad

Personal, you defend porn solely by attacking the church without even knowing all the good the church has brought to mankind and our culture (healthcare, education, social services, and more).

Evil men will continue to infiltrate it and wreak havoc but Jesus promised "the gates of hell will not prevail against it". Also, there are like 50,000 priests active today so 300 complaints over 20 years (Penn) doesn't change anything.

But we get it, you love porn and hate religion.


----------



## 269370

CatholicDad said:


> Personal, the abuses in the church are so exceptionally rare it would be similar to you not wanting to be Canadian if an official there was found to be guilty of the same. I've been in the church most of my life and never even met a bad priest.



You were probably already too old for them.



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## 269370

Where there's a will said:


> Religion is mans attempt to reach God. Christianity is not a religion, it is Gods attempt to reach man. There are no hard rules but encouragement and forgiveness when it is asked for both by God and people.




Why does God find it difficult to reach people?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

God reaches people. Just sometimes they don't reach back.

😁


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## 269370

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> God reaches people. Just sometimes they don't reach back.



I would love to be reached. But nobody is reaching out or if they are, I cannot tell 


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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I would love to be reached. But nobody is reaching out or if they are, I cannot tell
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is no ball of fire, just chat to Him. He is there and can hear you already.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> There is no ball of fire, just chat to Him. He is there and can hear you already.



What if there’s nobody there and I would just sound like an insane person talking to myself?
Why not just send down a couple of balls, just to be sure someone’s actually listening.


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## jorgegene

inmyprime said:


> What if there’s nobody there and I would just sound like an insane person talking to myself?
> Why not just send down a couple of balls, just to be sure someone’s actually listening.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


if they will not listen to the prophets then even if one were to rise from the dead then would not listen.


----------



## 269370

jorgegene said:


> if they will not listen to the prophets then even if one were to rise from the dead then would not listen.




If I told you I was a prophet, would you listen to me?


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## happyhusband0005

CatholicDad said:


> Wow, people attack if you simply say you aren't masturbating. Very open minded.
> 
> Personal, the abuses in the church are so exceptionally rare it would be similar to you not wanting to be Canadian if an official there was found to be guilty of the same. I've been in the church most of my life and never even met a bad priest. I think you exaggerate because you personally hate the church.
> 
> I'd say you are more judgemental than I am. I may hate porn, but you hate the largest charitable organization in the world. You share more in common with abusing priests than I do (they're also atheistic church haters).


I think the problem people have relating to the numerous abuse scandals in the church is not the shear numbers, thousands of victims, and not the fact they continue to come out, but that the cover up and the protection of the abusers go all the way to the top. Thats the problem, the Vatican is implicated in the abuse by hiding it and not taking action to stop it. Child sexual abuse is just about the worst crime imaginable so the fact that the church's specific actions have enabled it lend many to believe the church itself is evil. And people involved in the church who do not stand up and demand change and accountability are guilty of enabling it also. 

The majority of churchgoing people as well as the majority of the clergy are good people who are as disgusted as the rest of us at the actions of the powerful few bad apples but haw many are demanding change. Not Many.


----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> What if there’s nobody there and I would just sound like an insane person talking to myself?
> Why not just send down a couple of balls, just to be sure someone’s actually listening.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why worry what others think? I don't.


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## Red Sonja

Where there's a will said:


> *Religion is mans attempt to reach God*. Christianity is not a religion, it is Gods attempt to reach man. There are no hard rules but encouragement and forgiveness when it is asked for both by God and people.


No, religion is mans attempt to control groups of people ... control property, behavior, governments ... all sorts of things. The evidence is in all of recorded history.


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## Elizabeth001

Red Sonja said:


> No, religion is mans attempt to control groups of people ... control property, behavior, governments ... all sorts of things. The evidence is in all of recorded history.




QFT!


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## threelittlestars

personofinterest said:


> Threelittle, I know you've been going through a lot. It's easy to be extremely reactive when in crisis. I just want to make sure you are okay.


Hey, Yup, i'm fine. Not reactive.  Things are coasting right along in my life and I am chillin'. Thanks for asking. :nerd:


----------



## Diana7

Red Sonja said:


> No, religion is mans attempt to control groups of people ... control property, behavior, governments ... all sorts of things. The evidence is in all of recorded history.


Christianity is God reaching out to us through Jesus Christ. Christians are far less controlled as they are walking a different way from the majority.


----------



## Red Sonja

Diana7 said:


> Christianity is God reaching out to us through Jesus Christ. Christians are far less controlled as they are walking a different way from the majority.


Okay, however I did not say christianity, I said _religion_ ... they are not the same thing.


----------



## Diana7

Red Sonja said:


> Okay, however I did not say christianity, I said _religion_ ... they are not the same thing.


Well many would say that Christianity is a religion.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Well many would say that Christianity is a religion.



What about Islam or Buddhism? Are these people completely wrong about everything and going to hell? Or do they still get to enjoy some kind of paradise type thing?



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## Red Sonja

Diana7 said:


> Well many would say that Christianity is a religion.


As would I, religion is a word that includes every variety of belief system that is or ever was. In other words christianity is a single entity in the larger collection of belief systems known as religion.

From a historical perspective _all_ religions have the same purpose and function, as I have previously stated on this thread.


----------



## Personal

I haven't looked at any pornography for ages, that said when I have the time and inclination I will.

Has anyone else had the time and desire to look at any recently?


----------



## Luminous

I am throwing a random one out there, but if people believe pornography is bad/damaging, what about violent films/TV shows. Are the people that watch those branded psychopaths/evil for allowing themselves to watch such content.

Awareness of what you are doing and being responsible for yourself is the key... in my opinion


----------



## SpinyNorman

Red Sonja said:


> No, religion is mans attempt to control groups of people ... control property, behavior, governments ... all sorts of things. The evidence is in all of recorded history.


If I privately pray to some entity for enlightenment, I think I am trying to reach god, as opposed to trying to control anyone/anything. Of course history contains plenty of examples of attempts to control under the guise of religion. 

To use a comparison, there is such a thing as love, and there is such a thing as people trying to manipulate others under the guise of love. I would not define either love or religion as manipulation, but would be aware either can be a vehicle for manipulation.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Luminous said:


> I am throwing a random one out there, but if people believe pornography is bad/damaging, what about violent films/TV shows. Are the people that watch those branded psychopaths/evil for allowing themselves to watch such content.


Well, in defense of porn, I have to say that I don't recall any nut-job who ever shot up a school, a movie theater, or a McDonalds or set off a bomb in a building or killed someone famous to get someone else's attention ever saying that they *got* the idea from watching "Welcome to My Face" on the porn channel.

Just sayin'.


----------



## 269370

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well, in defense of porn, I have to say that I don't recall any nut-job who ever shot up a school, a movie theater, or a McDonalds or set off a bomb in a building or killed someone famous to get someone else's attention ever saying that they *got* the idea from watching "Welcome to My Face" on the porn channel.
> 
> Just sayin'.



Yet I can say with confidence that porn gave some tremendous ideas to improve things in the bedroom (wife can’t confirm this right now as she has a mouthful...).


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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> What about Islam or Buddhism? Are these people completely wrong about everything and going to hell? Or do they still get to enjoy some kind of paradise type thing?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well many of them do find Jesus. I have a friend who was bought up as hindu, she is now a Christian.


----------



## Diana7

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well, in defense of porn, I have to say that I don't recall any nut-job who ever shot up a school, a movie theater, or a McDonalds or set off a bomb in a building or killed someone famous to get someone else's attention ever saying that they *got* the idea from watching "Welcome to My Face" on the porn channel.
> 
> Just sayin'.



Umm you do realise that many sex offenders and rapists are avid porn users? Also many child abusers?


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Umm you do realise that many sex offenders and rapists are avid porn users? Also many child abusers?



As porn use hs gone up, sex crimes have proportionately declined. This is an incontestable fact. Countries that have little/no access to open, have also more sexual crimes/rapes. Catholic priests on the other hand...


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----------



## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> As porn use hs gone up, sex crimes have proportionately declined. This is an incontestable fact. Countries that have little/no access to open, have also more sexual crimes/rapes. Catholic priests on the other hand...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not so. https://fightthenewdrug.org/the-disturbing-link-between-porn-and-sex-crimes/


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Not so. https://fightthenewdrug.org/the-disturbing-link-between-porn-and-sex-crimes/



I see. So that’s the connection between porn and crimes that ‘proves’ porn is at the heart of sex crimes:

“Did you know there’s a connection between porn and sex crimes?

According to one report, “in spite of the lack of formal research, though, the FBI’s own statistics show that pornography is found at 80% of the scenes of violent sex crimes, or in the homes of the perpetrators.” Now we think that’s kind of tough to ignore”

It’s kind of tough to take this seriously....


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

inmyprime said:


> I see. So that’s the connection between porn and crimes that ‘proves’ porn is at the heart of sex crimes:
> 
> “Did you know there’s a connection between porn and sex crimes?
> 
> According to one report, “in spite of the lack of formal research, though, the FBI’s own statistics show that pornography is found at 80% of the scenes of violent sex crimes, or in the homes of the perpetrators.” Now we think that’s kind of tough to ignore”
> 
> It’s kind of tough to take this seriously....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


80% of the perpetrators of sex crimes have pornography?

It'd be interesting to see what percentage of men who do not commit sex crimes have pornography (including internet searches). Bet it's not too different, which would make this statistic irrelevant.


----------



## 269370

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> 80% of the perpetrators of sex crimes have pornography?
> 
> 
> 
> It'd be interesting to see what percentage of men who do not commit sex crimes have pornography (including internet searches). Bet it's not too different, which would make this statistic irrelevant.



If 99% of men use pornography to masturbate but only 80% of perpetrators use pornography then it is quite clear that not enough perpetrators use pornography to relieve whatever urges they have.

Have they also found food in the fridge? Because I read that there is a 100% correlation between frozen foods and violent sex crimes.


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## SpinyNorman

inmyprime said:


> Because I read that there is a 100% *correlation* between frozen foods and violent sex crimes.


I don't think that word means what you think it means.


----------



## 269370

SpinyNorman said:


> I don't think that word means what you think it means.



 what do you think I think it means?


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----------



## Edo Edo

CatholicDad said:


> I think you guys all know that porn is wrong....
> 
> You all love to paint the entire Church as evil because of a few bad priests as I suppose then you can justify your own depravity.



People don’t paint the entire church as evil because of a few bad priests. People paint the entire church as evil because church leadership all the way up to the Pope does everything possible to keep those priests from facing true justice. Priests that are guilty should be put in jail. Period. Church money should not go towards defending pedophiles. Period. Church money should not go towards paying victims to keep quiet so priests don't get in trouble. Period. 

If you give money to the Catholic Church in offering or you in any way disagree with what I typed above, then in part you are supporting pedophilia and child rape. Period. If you don’t understand the connection, then no one can really help you in this…

You like to paint things as “black and white,” well there’s a black and white issue you can’t seem to get on the moral side of.

And you tell me: What is really more harmful here? A young man that views a porn video or the Catholic Priest that forces him to act in one? Give me a break...


----------



## SpinyNorman

inmyprime said:


> what do you think I think it means?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That a two independent values can have a coefficient other than zero.


----------



## 269370

SpinyNorman said:


> That a two independent values can have a coefficient other than zero.




You must be a statistical anal-yst. Tell me, can finding frozen pizzas and violent sex crimes not have a positive correlation of 1? 


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## She'sStillGotIt

Diana7 said:


> Not so. https://fightthenewdrug.org/the-disturbing-link-between-porn-and-sex-crimes/


 With all due respect, this is an ANTI-PORN website, *not* a non-partisan website reporting scientific facts without prejudice. That's quite the little crusade they have going on over there - their whole agenda is very clear, especially with that corny URL, "Fight The New Drug." 

Hell, I'd be willing to bet CahtolicDad is likely on their Administrative Staff. Pfffft.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

I find it interesting that the most religious areas in the US have the most porn viewing. It's also interesting that LESBIAN porn is the most searched for porn in the US. i think I'll go view some lesbian porn now.


----------



## 269370

PigglyWiggly said:


> I find it interesting that the most religious areas in the US have the most porn viewing. It's also interesting that LESBIAN porn is the most searched for porn in the US. i think I'll go view some lesbian porn now.



What’s the least viewed? I think I’m going to be contrarian tonight...All that violence inside needs to be ejaculated somehow.


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----------



## PigglyWiggly

inmyprime said:


> What’s the least viewed? I think I’m going to be contrarian tonight...All that violence inside needs to be ejaculated somehow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.thecut.com/2017/06/pornhub-data-sexual-habits.html

Fun stuff.


----------



## CatholicDad

Porn is a lie, because users break their wedding vows to "forsake all others". It requires full consent of your will to click or search it out.

In a Christian sense it is akin to adultery per Jesus' own words (Matt-5). 

It leads to all sorts of sexual depravity and "kinks". You can verify that be reading on TAM.

It hurts women and contributes to worldwide sex trafficking (I know, you only watch ethically made porn-but how can you be sure?) Google "sex trafficking"

It is sited as a cause in most divorces.

It rewires young men's brains such that they lose the ability to have sex with an actual woman. They are warning young people about this on college campuses.

Sex is beautiful and produces new human beings (immortal souls). Young men, put away the porn and go find and woo an actual flesh and blood young woman and learn about actual love and sex and fill your lives with the children that result! First step, free yourself from the lie and slavery of porn!


----------



## peacem

Edo Edo said:


> People don’t paint the entire church as evil because of a few bad priests. People paint the entire church as evil because church leadership all the way up to the Pope does everything possible to keep those priests from facing true justice. Priests that are guilty should be put in jail. Period. Church money should not go towards defending pedophiles. Period. Church money should not go towards paying victims to keep quiet so priests don't get in trouble. Period.
> 
> If you give money to the Catholic Church in offering or you in any way disagree with what I typed above, then in part you are supporting pedophilia and child rape. Period. If you don’t understand the connection, then no one can really help you in this…
> 
> You like to paint things as “black and white,” well there’s a black and white issue you can’t seem to get on the moral side of.
> 
> And you tell me: What is really more harmful here? A young man that views a porn video or the Catholic Priest that forces him to act in one? Give me a break...


You beat me to it....


----------



## CatholicDad

There will always be evil people who masquerade as Christians and wreak havoc. I prefer to focus on the lives of the martyrs and saints who gave their lives making our church and world better. 

Edo, Peacem suppose you would tell Mother Theresa that she supported pedophilia.


----------



## Edo Edo

CatholicDad said:


> In a Christian sense it is akin to adultery per Jesus' own words (Matt-5).


People can use the Bible to justify anything. See? This one proves that people like to watch, and it's ok:

"So they spread Absalom a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom went in unto his father’s concubines in the sight of all Israel." 2 Samuel 16:22


----------



## Edo Edo

CatholicDad said:


> There will always be evil people who masquerade as Christians and wreak havoc. I prefer to focus on the lives of the martyrs and saints who gave their lives making our church and world better.
> 
> Edo, Peacem suppose you would tell Mother Theresa that she supported pedophilia.




If she was made fully aware of the situation and continued to follow as blindly as before, you are 100% correct. In the black and white world in which you live, I would label her a supporter of pedophilia and child rape. Period.


----------



## Edo Edo

CatholicDad said:


> There will always be evil people who masquerade as Christians and wreak havoc. I prefer to focus on the lives of the martyrs and saints who gave their lives making our church and world better.


So you'd just prefer to focus on the nice things about the Catholic Church, ignore all the bad, and still argue with the rest of us with a "black and white" agenda about porn? What kind of flippin' hypocrite are you? Own your crazy, Catholic Dad. If you want to put us porn watchers in a black and white cage, then you have to defend your church from the same position.

The evil you refer to exists all the way to the top of this organization that you revere so much. The Vatican keeps the rapists of children out of jail and uses YOUR offering money to do so. If you cannot acknowledge that this is WRONG, then there is absolutely a special place in hell waiting for you too, because you are helping to keep child rapists out of jail through your donations. Prove. Me. Wrong.


----------



## CatholicDad

CatholicDad said:


> Porn is a lie, because users break their wedding vows to "forsake all others". It requires full consent of your will to click or search it out.
> 
> In a Christian sense it is akin to adultery per Jesus' own words (Matt-5).
> 
> It leads to all sorts of sexual depravity and "kinks". You can verify that be reading on TAM.
> 
> It hurts women and contributes to worldwide sex trafficking (I know, you only watch ethically made porn-but how can you be sure?) Google "sex trafficking"
> 
> It is sited as a cause in most divorces.
> 
> It rewires young men's brains such that they lose the ability to have sex with an actual woman. They are warning young people about this on college campuses.
> 
> Sex is beautiful and produces new human beings (immortal souls). Young men, put away the porn and go find and woo an actual flesh and blood young woman and learn about actual love and sex and fill your lives with the children that result! First step, free yourself from the lie and slavery of porn!


Back to topic. Porn lovers love to attack the church when they lose the argument.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

CatholicDad said:


> There will always be evil people who masquerade as Christians and wreak havoc. I prefer to focus on the lives of the martyrs and saints who gave their lives making our church and world better.
> 
> Edo, Peacem suppose you would tell Mother Theresa that she supported pedophilia.


So for decades (at least), the entire hierarchy of the Catholic Church, who actively deceived, covered up, and enabled pedophiles, were therefore "evil people who masquerade as Christians and wreak havoc."

And yet, with your whole leadership structure as such, you continue to use that as the basis for your argument.

We don't attack your faith, only your dogma. And that blind adherence to things known counter to your own professed belief destroys your credibility.


----------



## PigglyWiggly

CatholicDad said:


> Back to topic. Porn lovers love to attack the church when they lose the argument.


CatholicDad loves to attack porn when it comes out that his church has been caught making porn. It comes across as a guilty conscience. The kind of porn that he might feel guilty for watching is what concerns me....I mean he is a Catholic......black and white thinking here.


----------



## Edo Edo

(And you like to avoid responses that you don't have an answer to. But fine, back on topic...)




CatholicDad said:


> Porn is a lie, because users break their wedding vows to "forsake all others". It requires full consent of your will to click or search it out.


No physical touching of another person is occurring. No two-way communication is occurring. No money is changing hands. All others are being forsaken when a porn video is being watched. We've been over this before.



> In a Christian sense it is akin to adultery per Jesus' own words (Matt-5).


(Again) People can use the Bible to justify anything. See? This one proves that people like to watch, and it's ok:

"So they spread Absalom a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom went in unto his father’s concubines in the sight of all Israel." 2 Samuel 16:22 





> It leads to all sorts of sexual depravity and "kinks". You can verify that be reading on TAM.



One person's "depravity" is another person's "Tuesday afternoon." Normal varies from person to person. There's more to a sex life than just missionary. Try it sometime...




> It hurts women and contributes to worldwide sex trafficking (I know, you only watch ethically made porn-but how can you be sure?) Google "sex trafficking"



So avoid the porn that looks questionable or seems seedy like it could have been produced from sex trafficking. What's your point...?




> It is sited as a cause in most divorces.


Because the person using the porn wasn't responsible with it. Many others use porn and are in healthy marriages. We've been over not punishing EVERYONE because A FEW can't handle something...




> It rewires young men's brains such that they lose the ability to have sex with an actual woman. They are warning young people about this on college campuses.



Porn is meant for grown-ups, not kids or teens. Please leave the fear mongering about kids finding a porn stash/website somewhere else with the all the other "what about the children" fear mongering arguments that have been tried and failed over the years (cigarettes, alcohol, cannabis, guns, sex education...).




> Sex is beautiful


Agreed.



> and produces new human beings (immortal souls).



FYI - Not everybody shares your view of religion.




> Young men, put away the porn and go find and woo an actual flesh and blood young woman and learn about actual love and sex and fill your lives with the children that result!



That is the ideal goal. However, there are times that a "Plan B" is desirable, if all the "Plan A's" they talk to shoot them down that night...




> First step, free yourself from the lie and slavery of porn!



But only is you like limiting your options...


----------



## Edo Edo

CatholicDad said:


> Back to topic. Porn lovers love to attack the church when they lose the argument.



...Says the man who keeps building his house upon the sand... 0


----------



## CatholicDad

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> There will always be evil people who masquerade as Christians and wreak havoc. I prefer to focus on the lives of the martyrs and saints who gave their lives making our church and world better.
> 
> Edo, Peacem suppose you would tell Mother Theresa that she supported pedophilia.
> 
> 
> 
> So for decades (at least), the entire hierarchy of the Catholic Church, who actively deceived, covered up, and enabled pedophiles, were therefore "evil people who masquerade as Christians and wreak havoc."
> 
> And yet, with your whole leadership structure as such, you continue to use that as the basis for your argument.
> 
> We don't attack your faith, only your dogma. And that blind adherence to things known counter to your own professed belief destroys your credibility.
Click to expand...

RMY, you're exaggerating to a ridiculous level. The church stands for truth and only a few evil bishops defend otherwise. You mentioned previously that you have Catholic friends.. guess they're pedophiles too huh?

So again, you defend porn but claim yourself above it. So you're a better man than Edo because he uses it and you don't.


----------



## CatholicDad

Edo, your arguments for porn are like a childs. Actually my children are more logical.

I mean, you actually think the Bible encourages pornography. Just ask anyone that's actually read it if they agree. I suppose one obscure reference trumps Jesus' own words?

It sounds like you couldn't care less about women and children since you quickly gloss over the damage done to them (by the porn industry). 

If you Catholic haters came to my community you'd see actual tangible good works being done. We run a center for crises pregnancies and give away formula, diapers, baby clothes, we raise money for the disabled (I donated time this weekend and brought in hundreds of dollars), we help families in need due to job loss, offer free meals at funerals, fund raise to help families with medical expenses, our priest offers sacraments and counseling to nearby prison.... the list goes on and on and has been going on for the last century here.

But, I guess you'll all continue hating and defending your sad little porn habit while decrying the "evils of the church hierarchy", ridiculous fools you all are.


----------



## peacem

CatholicDad said:


> There will always be evil people who masquerade as Christians and wreak havoc. I prefer to focus on the lives of the martyrs and saints who gave their lives making our church and world better.
> 
> Edo, Peacem suppose you would tell Mother Theresa that she supported pedophilia.


If you have a moment you may want to look at this documentary made by the late great Christopher Hitchens. He claims Mother Teresa was the most evil woman in history. I also think the way she behaved in the middle of the AIDS crisis makes her fairly deplorable. She was good at PR I will give her that. Nothing wrong with having people who you greatly admire but beware of those who over advertise their charitable and Christian attributes...they are the ones to watch.


----------



## CatholicDad

Hitchens also called Christianity, Judaism, and Islam the "axis of evil" whereas Mother Teresa was beatified in 2003, canonized in 2016.


----------



## jorgegene

"If you give money to the Catholic Church in offering or you in any way disagree with what I typed above, then in part you are supporting pedophilia and child rape. Period. If you don’t understand the connection, then no one can really help you in this…"

By this logic, then we are all guilty and complicit with the evils of local, state and federal government. Every crime committed by corrupt officials is supported by us taxpayers, so we are complicit and
we are thieves even rapists and frauds because a percentage of civil servants are corrupt do evil, and government actually is sometimes involved in cover-up too. And the excuse that we have to pay taxes doesn't work because you actually don't have to pay taxes. you will pay the consequences if you don't. but if that's really your conviction, then live with the consequences.

actually some of the radical islamic terrorists have used this as justification for their terrorism against u.s and european civilians. We are complicit in the sufferings of the middle east because of our
collusion with zionists and other anti-islamic forces. we are citizens of the u.s. after all, pay taxes and we are guilty and justified in being terrorized.

not to mention if all stop giving to catholic charities, then churches shut down, hospitals, outreach for the poor, foreign relief, primary, secondary schools, university's shut down and more. Yah, that's a real good idea.

btw, i think you're just making a point to OP, but just wondering.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

CatholicDad said:


> RMY, you're exaggerating to a ridiculous level. The church stands for truth and only a few evil bishops defend otherwise. *You mentioned previously that you have Catholic friends.. guess they're pedophiles too huh?*
> 
> So again, you defend porn but claim yourself above it. So you're a better man than Edo because he uses it and you don't.


It wasn't "just a few bishops." It was an entire chain of command. Members at every step of the hierarchy and in multiple locations. That is fact, not exaggeration. 

You are minimizing, pure and simple. 

The bolded is clear evidence you miss my point and are not interested in rational argument. Remember.... I said I take no issue with your faith, just your blind devotion to its dogma and leadership. You extrapolate things not said or implied to support your narrow, and quite frankly rather blind, view. You also project: since you want to paint all porn with the same evil brush, it only makes sense to you that I would paint all Catholics with the same evil brush. But I don't. That's the difference here. 

My Catholic friends are nothing like you... they can distinguish between the Word and the dogma, they understand and admit the failings of their leadership, and most importantly, they don't feel the compulsion to judge others, knowing that task is saved for their Lord and Savior, a key point you seem to have missed. 

Your comparison of Edo and Me is completely meaningless. He may actually be a better person than I am! You have but one data point which doesn't mean a damn thing in the overall assessment of one's character. 

Funny how you gave up porn yet it remains the single most all-consuming element of your existence.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Edo Edo said:


> So you'd just prefer to focus on the nice things about the Catholic Church, ignore all the bad, and still argue with the rest of us with a "black and white" agenda about porn? What kind of flippin' hypocrite are you? Own your crazy, Catholic Dad. If you want to put us porn watchers in a black and white cage, then you have to defend your church from the same position.
> 
> The evil you refer to exists all the way to the top of this organization that you revere so much. *The Vatican keeps the rapists of children out of jail and uses YOUR offering money to do so.* If you cannot acknowledge that this is WRONG, then there is absolutely a special place in hell waiting for you too, because you are helping to keep child rapists out of jail through your donations. Prove. Me. Wrong.


Its far worse than that Edo, they most often simply reassign these priests to other places enabling them a fresh start to groom new victims.


----------



## peacem

CatholicDad said:


> Hitchens also called Christianity, Judaism, and Islam the "axis of evil" whereas Mother Teresa was beatified in 2003, canonized in 2016.


..yes he did, and yes they did. 

Back to porn. Put simplistically, for some porn can be self-destructive and damaging to relationships. For others it is a very healthy response to sexual frustration or sexual fantasy. 

So just as you may take umbridge at being told ALL religion is hypocritical mind-control, those who choose to view pornography may also take offense by sweeping generalizations. Sometimes you and another poster seem to lack empathy for anyone who doesn't live their lives exactly as you do. Its OK to not be OK with porn, but for some it is not only a healthy form of release, but also aids sexual enjoyment. 

I did titter at the divorce non-statistic. Who on earth rocks up to their solicitors to discuss their husband's pornographic habits at the point of separation?! I think 'we have drifted apart' would be a more apt discussion to have.


----------



## happyhusband0005

CatholicDad said:


> Edo, your arguments for porn are like a childs. Actually my children are more logical.
> 
> I mean, you actually think the Bible encourages pornography. Just ask anyone that's actually read it if they agree. I suppose one obscure reference trumps Jesus' own words?
> 
> It sounds like you couldn't care less about women and children since you quickly gloss over the damage done to them (by the porn industry).
> 
> If you Catholic haters came to my community you'd see actual tangible good works being done. We run a center for crises pregnancies and give away formula, diapers, baby clothes, we raise money for the disabled (I donated time this weekend and brought in hundreds of dollars), we help families in need due to job loss, offer free meals at funerals, fund raise to help families with medical expenses, our priest offers sacraments and counseling to nearby prison.... the list goes on and on and has been going on for the last century here.
> 
> But, I guess you'll all continue hating and defending your sad little porn habit while decrying the "evils of the church hierarchy", ridiculous fools you all are.


CD you're missing the point he's making. If the church protects and defends these abusers from prosecution, and in fact enables them, then people who stand by and support the leadership of the church are by way of their continued support are also enabling this behavior. This problem is worldwide and the protection and enabling goes all the way to the top. 

Yes the vast majority of churchgoers are good and decent people, in many of the places where these scandals have hit hard (Boston, Brazil and on) many many people have left the catholic church and turned to other churches. Until the entire catholic community stands up and forces change you will continue to see these scandals. If even 1% of priests are pedophiles or have pedophile tendencies (general population is about 2-2.5%) that would be about 4,140 potential pedophile priests. The fact they know the church will protect them makes it so much more likely they will act on their sick desires. 

That is the part you fail to recognize as a huge problem in the church, in the general population if Joe the pedo has thoughts he might not act on them because he fears harsh punishment, while Father Joe knows one of the most powerful organizations on earth has his back. With the average victim count in these scandals being around 10 per priest we're looking at a potential victim pool of 40k+ worldwide unless the church does something to catch these guys themselves rather than waiting until the lawsuits are filed years later. 

For the sake of the church itself all catholics need to demand this, the change is not going to come from the leadership in any form other than words until they do.


----------



## Ynot

Where there's a will said:


> Religion is mans attempt to reach God. Christianity is not a religion, it is Gods attempt to reach man. There are no hard rules but encouragement and forgiveness when it is asked for both by God and people.


I have read the entire thread. There are real zingers in there. But this one ^ takes the cake.

Religion is man's attempt to control others' attempt to reach God. I do not need anyone else to tell me what I can and cannot enjoy (which would include porn), because to do so is the real sin against God. If one believes in a God, then one must understand that mankind, unique amongst animals on this earth has the ability to reason and attempt to understand the world they live in. To forgo reason and accept faith is the worst sin against God I can think of. And for the record - Christianity is most definitely a religion based on some man's interpretation of how they believe things are, complete with all sorts of rules while being very much lacking in encouragement (except to believe more and have more faith) and forgiveness (unless you accept the tripe they are spewing).


----------



## Ynot

"With the average victim count in these scandals being around 10 per priest we're looking at a potential victim pool of 40k+ worldwide unless the church does something to catch these guys themselves rather than waiting until the lawsuits are filed years later. "


My brother wants to sue the Cathoholic Church. Because he wasn't abused. He thinks the priest discriminated against big Polish boys in favor of the small Italians and Irish ones.


----------



## Edo Edo

jorgegene said:


> "If you give money to the Catholic Church in offering or you in any way disagree with what I typed above, then in part you are supporting pedophilia and child rape. Period. If you don’t understand the connection, then no one can really help you in this…"
> 
> By this logic, then we are all guilty and complicit with the evils of local, state and federal government. Every crime committed by corrupt officials is supported by us taxpayers, so we are complicit and
> we are thieves even rapists and frauds because a percentage of civil servants are corrupt do evil, and government actually is sometimes involved in cover-up too. And the excuse that we have to pay taxes doesn't work because you actually don't have to pay taxes. you will pay the consequences if you don't. but if that's really your conviction, then live with the consequences.
> 
> actually some of the radical islamic terrorists have used this as justification for their terrorism against u.s and european civilians. We are complicit in the sufferings of the middle east because of our
> collusion with zionists and other anti-islamic forces. we are citizens of the u.s. after all, pay taxes and we are guilty and justified in being terrorized.
> 
> not to mention if all stop giving to catholic charities, then churches shut down, hospitals, outreach for the poor, foreign relief, primary, secondary schools, university's shut down and more. Yah, that's a real good idea.
> 
> btw, i think you're just making a point to OP, but just wondering.



jorgegene, you are correct. My intention is to make the point to @CatholicDad that no topic, including porn use, is black and white, as he would like to believe. This is simply not the world in which we live. I love the fact that there are many shades of gray in this world. Life would be boring without them... 

However, any time this comes up, CD wants to argue from a "black and white" philosophy, but he can't ever handle a dose of his own medicine. When he likes to take the moral high ground and go on the offensive, anyone that disagrees with him is wrong in his mind. However, when he is faced with a position in which he cannot defend, he'll lash out at people, call them names, etc. because he knows he cannot produce any argument in a "black and white" scenario in which he can defend the church. 

The only real difference between my example of church offering helping pedophiles vs. your example of taxation and gov corruption is that if you stop paying your taxes, you go to jail. There's no tangible consequence to withholding offering money from the church to the person withholding that money. You're right that the church does many good things - and in a world that supports many shades of gray, I could foresee a possibility in which I'd donate to support one of those causes. However, in the black and white world that CD lives in, I absolutely could not...


----------



## jorgegene

Edo Edo said:


> jorgegene, you are correct. My intention is to make the point to @CatholicDad that no topic, including porn use, is black and white, as he would like to believe. This is simply not the world in which we live. I love the fact that there are many shades of gray in this world. Life would be boring without them...
> 
> However, any time this comes up, CD wants to argue from a "black and white" philosophy, but he can't ever handle a dose of his own medicine. When he likes to take the moral high ground and go on the offensive, anyone that disagrees with him is wrong in his mind. However, when he is faced with a position in which he cannot defend, he'll lash out at people, call them names, etc. because he knows he cannot produce any argument in a "black and white" scenario in which he can defend the church.
> 
> The only real difference between my example of church offering helping pedophiles vs. your example of taxation and gov corruption is that if you stop paying your taxes, you go to jail. There's no tangible consequence to withholding offering money from the church to the person withholding that money. You're right that the church does many good things - and in a world that supports many shades of gray, I could foresee a possibility in which I'd donate to support one of those causes. However, in the black and white world that CD lives in, I absolutely could not...


Yes, I agree that serious and even potentially crippling pressures need to come to bear to the hierarchy including hitting them where it hurts to get them
to take action. The problem is like a roach infestation, you're not sure exactly where the nest is. it is hidden and what you think, might not be. it is a much simpler to say 'stop their funding!' 

my point was just to say that the Catholic Church is so vast, it's infrastructure so far reaching and it's apparatus reaches people in every Country in the world from people lying in hospital beds
where there would otherwise be none to providing education around the third world where the state run systems are pathetic or non-existent. People who contribute to these causes cannot be lumped in with the perpetrators any more than contributing to your local mosque knowing that maybe some of that money might go to where you don't want it to go.


----------



## Edo Edo

CatholicDad said:


> Edo, your arguments for porn are like a childs. Actually my children are more logical.


You can call me whatever names you want to. I don't know your kids, and certainly won't allow myself to be baited by you into drawing them into this debate. I do, however, feel sorry for them.




> I mean, you actually think the Bible encourages pornography. Just ask anyone that's actually read it if they agree. I suppose one obscure reference trumps Jesus' own words?



My exact words were, "People can use the Bible to justify anything." And it's the truth. 




> It sounds like you couldn't care less about women and children since you quickly gloss over the damage done to them (by the porn industry).



Are you really proud of this comment you made? 




> If you Catholic haters came to my community you'd see actual tangible good works being done. We run a center for crises pregnancies and give away formula, diapers, baby clothes, we raise money for the disabled (I donated time this weekend and brought in hundreds of dollars), we help families in need due to job loss, offer free meals at funerals, fund raise to help families with medical expenses, our priest offers sacraments and counseling to nearby prison.... the list goes on and on and has been going on for the last century here.



That's very nice of you. No one is saying this part of church work isn't great. But this does not give you free reign to judge other people just because they like to engage in an activity that you don't approve of.




> But, I guess you'll all continue hating and defending your sad little porn habit while decrying the "evils of the church hierarchy", ridiculous fools you all are.





You've never actually answered the question. Do you believe church leadership wrong for keeping priests guilty of child rape out of prison?


----------



## Edo Edo

jorgegene said:


> Yes, I agree that serious and even potentially crippling pressures need to come to bear to the hierarchy including hitting them where it hurts to get them
> to take action. The problem is like a roach infestation, you're not sure exactly where the nest is. it is hidden and what you think, might not be. it is a much simpler to say 'stop their funding!'
> 
> my point was just to say that the Catholic Church is so vast, it's infrastructure so far reaching and it's apparatus reaches people in every Country in the world from people lying in hospital beds
> where there would otherwise be none to providing education around the third world where the state run systems are pathetic or non-existent. People who contribute to these causes cannot be lumped in with the perpetrators any more than contributing to your local mosque knowing that maybe some of that money might go to where you don't want it to go.



I understand, and agree with most of it. I just don't know what kind of crippling pressures could be brought to bear that don't directly involve cash flow. Maybe when Trump leaves office, the media will make this their new hot button topic again. Pedophiles thrive on secrecy (which is abundant in the church). A lot of unwanted media attention could put an axe in this...


----------



## SpinyNorman

inmyprime said:


> You must be a statistical anal-yst. Tell me, can finding frozen pizzas and violent sex crimes not have a positive correlation of 1?


I'll just recommend refraining from using words you don't understand, and point out you have "correlation" all wrong.


----------



## 269370

SpinyNorman said:


> I'll just recommend refraining from using words you don't understand, and point out you have "correlation" all wrong.




I really don’t understand what it is you have a problem with or why you think I use words I don’t understand.

“correlation: a mutual relationship of interdependence between two or more things”

More violent crimes equal more frozen pizzas.
And I meant it sarcastically. 

I read that there may be a negative correlation between reading forums for a prolonged period of time and being able to comprehend sarcasm.

Would you like me to make a drawing or perhaps even a pie chart for you to shed any doubts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## peacem

I have heard that a very high percentage of violent sexual offenders also like cheese....


----------



## CatholicDad

The Pennsylvania report above calls out 300 priests, and Boston was another 50. However I think there are about 50k priests in the U.S. Probably a few bad bishops. This is hardly the entire church hierarchy! 

You guys attack the church because it's straight out of the defend porn playbook.... Attack the church, discredit anyone who cares to speak against porn. You say we're judgemental despite that we admit to being tainted by it.

I'd never defend a pedophile but will defend the priesthood. My priests are the best men I've ever known. Would I defend a priest who's a confessed pedophile, hell no! I'd beat their a$$, tell everyone and send them to prison or hell.

We're back to square one. You like porn (Edo) cause it feels, oh so good. That's all you really got. You don't care if it hurts women or children.

Edo, you say things aren't black and white but they are. Pedophilia is always wrong, and so is porn. There isn't anything "wonderfully gray" about either.

I know, you and the other creeps will keep your porn and decry the evils of religion.. meanwhile the the rest of us will keep taking action to make the world a better place. You guys can have your porn!!! Feel better?


----------



## peacem

CatholicDad said:


> T
> 
> I know, you and the other creeps will keep your porn and decry the evils of religion.. meanwhile the the rest of us will keep taking action to make the world a better place. You guys can have your porn!!! Feel better?


What are you trying to achieve?

I actually think porn is very boring and I much prefer having real sex. At the same time I don't expect everyone's experience to be the same as mine. And people on TAM don't need your permission to have free choice in doing legal things. Its a private thing.


----------



## Elizabeth001

peacem said:


> What are you trying to achieve?
> 
> I actually think porn is very boring and I much prefer having real sex. At the same time I don't expect everyone's experience to be the same as mine. And people on TAM don't need your permission to have free choice in doing legal things. Its a private thing.




Amen!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhusband0005

CatholicDad said:


> The Pennsylvania report above calls out 300 priests, and Boston was another 50. However I think there are about 50k priests in the U.S. Probably a few bad bishops. This is hardly the entire church hierarchy!
> 
> You guys attack the church because it's straight out of the defend porn playbook.... Attack the church, discredit anyone who cares to speak against porn. You say we're judgemental despite that we admit to being tainted by it.
> 
> I'd never defend a pedophile but will defend the priesthood. My priests are the best men I've ever known. Would I defend a priest who's a confessed pedophile, hell no! I'd beat their a$$, tell everyone and send them to prison or hell.
> 
> We're back to square one. You like porn (Edo) cause it feels, oh so good. That's all you really got. You don't care if it hurts women or children.
> 
> Edo, you say things aren't black and white but they are. Pedophilia is always wrong, and so is porn. There isn't anything "wonderfully gray" about either.
> 
> I know, you and the other creeps will keep your porn and decry the evils of religion.. meanwhile the the rest of us will keep taking action to make the world a better place. You guys can have your porn!!! Feel better?


Is it hard to breath with your head stuffed in the sand. There is evidence that these coverups included not bishops but cardinals and all the way to the vatican. That is the primary sin of the church as a whole, yes it is a sin by the church itself. 

Now I am a guy who has extensive experience with bad priests and other clergy. I was tossed down a flight of stairs by the head of my parish when I was in classes to become an alter boy. I went to a catholic high schools where two Brothers were accused and one admitted to sexual abuse of students. I am a guy who was threatened with expulsion from my elementry school because when a nun took a swing at me for not doing my math homework I ducked and she broke a finger on the bookcase next to me. SO please don't try and tell me how all the clergy and church leaders are the greatest people you've ever known. I can guaranty you the priests you hols in such high regard are guilty of either participating in these acts or turning a blind eye to them. 

Now me I recently got a bitter sweet revenge. My grandfather died a week and a half ago. And who was the priest who presided over the funeral mass, the POS who tossed me down a flight of concrete stairs. And as me and my male cousins stood there in the back of the church with him waiting to enter the mass, I asked him if he remembered me and went on to remind him of our little encounter in the basement of the very church we were standing in. Why did I do this just before my grandfathers funeral, because if my grandfather had known of this when I was a kid, as much of a devote catholic and church supporter as he was, he would have beat that priest to within an inch of his life. 

No I am not a believer, I have my own reasons for this. Do I look down on the faithful? absolutely not. I think true believers are lucky. I think the church has given great leadership and provided great service to the world. But the church has become rotten. The leadership has become more concerned with power and expanding the churches reach, power and influence than spreading the teachings of Jesus. The reality for me is the people in the pews are most often far better human beings then those preaching from the altar. I lived in the church for 18 years, I attended catholic schools from kindergarten through high school. My kids are not baptized and have only stepped foot in a church for my fathers and more recently my grandfathers funerals. The closest they have ever come to a catholic school is when they go to play the local catholic school team in soccer. We won 13-0 god must have been on our side. 

As far as the basis of this thread, porn I watch it, my wife watches it we watch it together. The percentage of girls involved in the commercial porn industry that are victims of human trafficking is far less than percentage of clergy that use their position to abuse and control the innocent. Human trafficking lends itself to the sex work trade not the porn industry. And one thing history has shown is that no one will ever control the sex industry, that business is much older than any organized religion. 

CD am I wrong or are you a self described former porn addict. Your obsessive crusade against anyone who watches porn is like an alcoholic who believes if they can't handle booze, no one can. Not everyone falls under the control of vices. Most people can have some drinks and be fine, just like most people can watch some porn and still have no problem having a full sex life with their spouses. 

If porn is your crusade I say go for it. Start a group in your church and spread the word. Teach people how Jesus saved Mary Magdalene from the sex trade and it is your mission to save people the same way. But again I lived the church for far too long to see your judgement and hatred as anything less than the normal hatred and judgement that has lead religion to become the justification for the greatest crimes against humanity in history. 

Learn to separate your faith from your blind support for the corrupt institution the church has become. Purely statistically speaking, supporting the catholic church has a higher percentage of likelihood of supporting child abuse than a porn watcher has of supporting human trafficking.


----------



## personofinterest

I have yet to talk to ANY Catholic who will just come out and say "this is horrible and inexcusable" without a "but" or a deflection.

Not. One.


----------



## Deejo

Respectfully, this thread ISN'T supposed to be about a condemnation of faith, or transgressions by those of faith. We have a whole forum for those topics.

This is about onanism and nudie pix/flix.

Thank you.


----------



## personofinterest

So is it still "evil porn" if it is you and your spouse sharing pictures of each other?


----------



## 269370

personofinterest said:


> So is it still "evil porn" if it is you and your spouse sharing pictures of each other?



If they get sent to me, it might be 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

inmyprime said:


> If they get sent to me, it might be
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Finally, some humor! 😜😜😜


----------



## happyhusband0005

personofinterest said:


> So is it still "evil porn" if it is you and your spouse sharing pictures of each other?


Depends, the pics should probably be posted on this thread so they can be judge as to the evilness. >


----------



## PigglyWiggly

I'm more of a pic guy than a video guy. With that being said, I suggest CatholicDad stay away from /tinytits /labiagw and /pelfie


----------



## 269370

Deejo said:


> Thank you.



You’r welcome! ?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CatholicDad

The endless church attacks make me sad. It is, and always will be the most hopeful thing about life IMO. The abuses committed by clergy and others make me equally sad. 

However, it doesn't change my opinion about porn. Married sex and procreation are just to precious. I think there are great lessons to be learned when men focus on their wives and families alone. I think men do well to practice self control in sexual matters. Just don't think it's healthy to go pursue sex outside of marriage... Still convinced it damages men, women, and families.

I mean, porn lovers, you are defending men whacking off to fantasy... How's that really defensible? Since when did that become the "normal" behavior?


----------



## CatholicDad

happyhusband0005 said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pennsylvania report above calls out 300 priests, and Boston was another 50. However I think there are about 50k priests in the U.S. Probably a few bad bishops. This is hardly the entire church hierarchy!
> 
> You guys attack the church because it's straight out of the defend porn playbook.... Attack the church, discredit anyone who cares to speak against porn. You say we're judgemental despite that we admit to being tainted by it.
> 
> I'd never defend a pedophile but will defend the priesthood. My priests are the best men I've ever known. Would I defend a priest who's a confessed pedophile, hell no! I'd beat their a$$, tell everyone and send them to prison or hell.
> 
> We're back to square one. You like porn (Edo) cause it feels, oh so good. That's all you really got. You don't care if it hurts women or children.
> 
> Edo, you say things aren't black and white but they are. Pedophilia is always wrong, and so is porn. There isn't anything "wonderfully gray" about either.
> 
> I know, you and the other creeps will keep your porn and decry the evils of religion.. meanwhile the the rest of us will keep taking action to make the world a better place. You guys can have your porn!!! Feel better?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it hard to breath with your head stuffed in the sand. There is evidence that these coverups included not bishops but cardinals and all the way to the vatican. That is the primary sin of the church as a whole, yes it is a sin by the church itself.
> 
> Now I am a guy who has extensive experience with bad priests and other clergy. I was tossed down a flight of stairs by the head of my parish when I was in classes to become an alter boy. I went to a catholic high schools where two Brothers were accused and one admitted to sexual abuse of students. I am a guy who was threatened with expulsion from my elementry school because when a nun took a swing at me for not doing my math homework I ducked and she broke a finger on the bookcase next to me. SO please don't try and tell me how all the clergy and church leaders are the greatest people you've ever known. I can guaranty you the priests you hols in such high regard are guilty of either participating in these acts or turning a blind eye to them.
> 
> Now me I recently got a bitter sweet revenge. My grandfather died a week and a half ago. And who was the priest who presided over the funeral mass, the POS who tossed me down a flight of concrete stairs. And as me and my male cousins stood there in the back of the church with him waiting to enter the mass, I asked him if he remembered me and went on to remind him of our little encounter in the basement of the very church we were standing in. Why did I do this just before my grandfathers funeral, because if my grandfather had known of this when I was a kid, as much of a devote catholic and church supporter as he was, he would have beat that priest to within an inch of his life.
> 
> No I am not a believer, I have my own reasons for this. Do I look down on the faithful? absolutely not. I think true believers are lucky. I think the church has given great leadership and provided great service to the world. But the church has become rotten. The leadership has become more concerned with power and expanding the churches reach, power and influence than spreading the teachings of Jesus. The reality for me is the people in the pews are most often far better human beings then those preaching from the altar. I lived in the church for 18 years, I attended catholic schools from kindergarten through high school. My kids are not baptized and have only stepped foot in a church for my fathers and more recently my grandfathers funerals. The closest they have ever come to a catholic school is when they go to play the local catholic school team in soccer. We won 13-0 god must have been on our side.
> 
> As far as the basis of this thread, porn I watch it, my wife watches it we watch it together. The percentage of girls involved in the commercial porn industry that are victims of human trafficking is far less than percentage of clergy that use their position to abuse and control the innocent. Human trafficking lends itself to the sex work trade not the porn industry. And one thing history has shown is that no one will ever control the sex industry, that business is much older than any organized religion.
> 
> CD am I wrong or are you a self described former porn addict. Your obsessive crusade against anyone who watches porn is like an alcoholic who believes if they can't handle booze, no one can. Not everyone falls under the control of vices. Most people can have some drinks and be fine, just like most people can watch some porn and still have no problem having a full sex life with their spouses.
> 
> If porn is your crusade I say go for it. Start a group in your church and spread the word. Teach people how Jesus saved Mary Magdalene from the sex trade and it is your mission to save people the same way. But again I lived the church for far too long to see your judgement and hatred as anything less than the normal hatred and judgement that has lead religion to become the justification for the greatest crimes against humanity in history.
> 
> Learn to separate your faith from your blind support for the corrupt institution the church has become. Purely statistically speaking, supporting the catholic church has a higher percentage of likelihood of supporting child abuse than a porn watcher has of supporting human trafficking.
Click to expand...

I bet your grandfather is praying you will return to the church and help clean it up... He certainly wouldn't want the evil people you've encountered to keep you from joining him in heaven. I'm sure his heart is broken as mine is to hear your experience.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

CatholicDad said:


> The endless church attacks make me sad. It is, and always will be the most hopeful thing about life IMO. The abuses committed by clergy and others make me equally sad.
> 
> However, it doesn't change my opinion about porn. Married sex and procreation are just to precious. I think there are great lessons to be learned when men focus on their wives and families alone. I think men do well to practice self control in sexual matters. Just don't think it's healthy to go pursue sex outside of marriage... Still convinced it damages men, women, and families.
> 
> *I mean, porn lovers, you are defending men whacking off to fantasy... *How's that really defensible? Since when did that become the "normal" behavior?


It's soo easy to "win" the argument when you frame the entire thing in pejorative terms, isn't it? Must make you feel very good... in a holier-than-thou sense. 

You call anyone who doesn't see porn exactly as you do a "porn lover," and yet many people can see that how porn does or does not affect most is up to that individual. Watching porn is not an automatic disavowal of vows, regardless of your inability to see it as otherwise. ANY AND ALL fiction we watch or read is fantasy in some form. That doesn't mean when we read or watch it, that we're forsaking our real life relationship. If a woman watches Pretty Woman and enjoys watching the fantasy of Julia Roberts being rescued by Richard Gere, that doesn't mean she's disrespecting or dismissing her husband or her marriage. It's just a freakin' movie. Now if a woman consumes romance novels by the dozens and expects her husband to look like Fabio, bring home $500K/year, and be a perfect lover every time, that's gonna' degrade the marriage. But as you can see, that's not usually the case. Ditto porn. 

Why is it that your ego is so fragile that you can't face the truth that some people can handle something you couldn't? And now you double down on that by developing false superiority that because you don't now, you're better than everyone else. If you were half as spiritually enlightened as you think you are, you would have no need for such judgment. 

And you continue to have a false, distorted notion (driven again by your own very narrow experience, no doubt), that there is some kind of 1 for 1 correspondence between porn and masturbation. There isn't. One can watch porn without whacking off. One can whack off without porn. One can do either of those things without disrespecting ones partner. Again, try to look beyond your own experience. Not all people are alike.


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## CatholicDad

Man RMY, you must really love porn to just defend, attack, defend. I can't believe you're not a regular user, to have such strong feelings and vehemence about it.


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## CatholicDad

The difference between watching a regular movie and porn RMY, is the latter involves you stroking yourself. Lol


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## Luminous

CatholicDad said:


> I mean, porn lovers, you are defending men whacking off to fantasy... How's that really defensible? Since when did that become the "normal" behavior?


Does that mean women shouldn't read romance novels because it emotionally/sexually excites them and takes them away from their devotion to the husband/family unit?

Mate, if you want people here to engage with you, you gotta stop being a one note banjo


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## CatholicDad

Go start your own thread about romance novels, Luminous. Your off topic and banned!


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## Ynot

CatholicDad said:


> Go start your own thread about romance novels, Luminous. Your off topic and banned!


Strangely, I didn't know you had the power to ban anyone. But back to the topic, You do understand the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. Hate is actually the highest form of love. Because for the most part it is unrequited love. So man, you must really love porn to exhibit such a hatred towards it.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

CatholicDad said:


> Go start your own thread about romance novels, Luminous. Your off topic and banned!


Setting aside the fact that you are completely impotent with regard to the power to ban, the fact is that that romance novel reference is perfectly on topic as it illustrates the fallacy of your core premise... especially if you fail to condemn the reading of fantasy with the same level of vehemence as you do porn. But I have no doubt the sheer irrefutable logic of that escapes your narrow, closed, hopelessly unanalytical, irrational, illogical mind.


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## 269370

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Setting aside the fact that you are completely impotent with regard to the power to ban, the fact is that that romance novel reference is perfectly on topic as it illustrates the fallacy of your core premise... especially if you fail to condemn the reading of fantasy with the same level of vehemence as you do porn. But I have no doubt the sheer irrefutable logic of that escapes your narrow, closed, hopelessly unanalytical, irrational, illogical mind.



Because you can’t have sex with a book, it’s ok to read porn novels. 
But apparently you can stick your **** somewhere inside a television...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Luminous

inmyprime said:


> Because you can’t have sex with a book, it’s ok to read porn novels.
> But apparently you can stick your **** somewhere inside a television...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gold


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## CatholicDad

My "ban" was meant in jest.

I'd say if ladies were getting addicted and masturbating to romance novels and not loving their hubbies, this would be worth debating. I probably won't get in the middle of it, because it is something I know nothing about.


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## 269370

CatholicDad said:


> My "ban" was meant in jest.
> 
> I'd say if ladies were getting addicted and masturbating to romance novels and not loving their hubbies, this would be worth debating. I probably won't get in the middle of it, because it is something I know nothing about.




I usually don’t mind being in the middle (between the book and the devil’s doorbell, also known as the clit). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CatholicDad

For those interested in learning more about the harmfulness of porn, do a couple internet searches:

Matt Fradd, author
Fight the New Drug


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## NobodySpecial

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Says a Catholic lol. You would rather our grandkids hang out with your priests? LMAO


No ****.


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## NobodySpecial

Ynot said:


> I have read the entire thread. There are real zingers in there. But this one ^ takes the cake.
> 
> Religion is man's attempt to control others' attempt to reach God. I do not need anyone else to tell me what I can and cannot enjoy (which would include porn), because to do so is the real sin against God. If one believes in a God, then one must understand that mankind, unique amongst animals on this earth *has the ability to reason and attempt to understand the world they live in*. To forgo reason and accept faith is the worst sin against God I can think of. And for the record - Christianity is most definitely a religion based on some man's interpretation of how they believe things are, complete with all sorts of rules while being very much lacking in encouragement (except to believe more and have more faith) and forgiveness (unless you accept the tripe they are spewing).


In my view, folks who don't recognize this probably SHOULD have a rule book that includes things like thou shalt not look at porn since you don't have the capacity to see it in light of what it is. And isn't.


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## PigglyWiggly

CatholicDad said:


> For those interested in learning more about the harmfulness of porn, do a couple internet searches:
> 
> Matt Fradd, author
> Fight the New Drug


Let me share a laugh I got from porn yesterday. I was perusing /gonewild and one of that gals titled her pic "for my next trick, I will make this didlo disappear". For some reason, that gave me a good chuckle. 

I see where porn has influenced SOME younger viewers with things about sex that are unrealistic and harmful. One thing I like about internet porn areas like reddit is the confidence it has given many women/girls. There are plenty posting their pics in /labiaGW and /tinytits that are finally losing their shame over their naughty bits. They now understand that there are plenty of men who love and prefer their longer labia and/or small tits. Not everyone has an innie with D cups and not every guy prefers that. It's nice to see these women feeling confident in their bodies and casting away their shame. 

CatholicDad, have you suffered from porn addiction in the past?


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## NobodySpecial

PigglyWiggly said:


> Let me share a laugh I got from porn yesterday. I was perusing /gonewild and one of that gals titled her pic "for my next trick, I will make this didlo disappear". For some reason, that gave me a good chuckle.
> 
> I see where porn has influenced SOME younger viewers with things about sex that are unrealistic and harmful.


Where there is a gap in education about something so important, a young person will attempt to fill the gap. I find many parents' version of sexual education to be lame, full of their own issues and hangups and woefully inadequate.


> One thing I like about internet porn areas like reddit is the confidence it has given many women/girls. There are plenty posting their pics in /labiaGW and /tinytits that are finally losing their shame over their naughty bits. They now understand that there are plenty of men who love and prefer their longer labia and/or small tits. Not everyone has an innie with D cups and not every guy prefers that. It's nice to see these women feeling confident in their bodies and casting away their shame.
> 
> CatholicDad, have you suffered from porn addiction in the past?



I am all down with casting off shame. I think posting your bits on the internet is a derned bad idea.


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## PigglyWiggly

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-not-honest-or-ethical?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

oh my.


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## uhtred

I think this is key. I think porn is not a problem for most people who have good general knowledge about human sexuality and understand the gap between reality and fantasy. For those without other information, its like trying to learn about a career in intelligence services by watching James Bond movies.

Porn can be fun. It can be instructive - in terms of providing new ideas to try. But it can also give a vary incorrect idea of what a typical sex life is like.

I am concerned about young people seeing porn, not because it is "immoral" or anything, but because it would be a very inaccurate introduction to human sexuality. 

Also *some* people become addicted to porn, and that has all the same issues that any addition will have. 





NobodySpecial said:


> Where there is a gap in education about something so important, a young person will attempt to fill the gap. I find many parents' version of sexual education to be lame, full of their own issues and hangups and woefully inadequate.
> 
> 
> 
> I am all down with casting off shame. I think posting your bits on the internet is a derned bad idea.


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## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> I think this is key. I think porn is not a problem for most people who have good general knowledge about human sexuality and understand the gap between reality and fantasy. For those without other information, its like trying to learn about a career in intelligence services by watching James Bond movies.
> 
> Porn can be fun. It can be instructive - in terms of providing new ideas to try. But it can also give a vary *incorrect idea* of what a typical sex life is like.


Oy. Or, having decided on some ideas to try, HOW to try them! NO NO NO NO going in DRY to the back door.


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## uhtred

Yeah, porn does contain some simply bad ideas. Just the idea that a woman should O from 30 seconds of pounding sets some unrealistic expectations as well.

I do worry that quite young children can access it, and for many it may be their first introduction to sex (if their parents are too shy to talk about it). 

Sometimes I wonder if we should put the idea of "adult" material at a different place. I don't think its nearly as harmful for children to see realistic depictions of sex, as it is for them to see unrealistic / abusive representations. (though those are fine for adults IMHO)




NobodySpecial said:


> Oy. Or, having decided on some ideas to try, HOW to try them! NO NO NO NO going in DRY to the back door.


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## Mr. Nail

PigglyWiggly said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-not-honest-or-ethical?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
> 
> oh my.


looks like they are way ahead of politicians.


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## CatholicDad

Here’s an article that might change your thinking about it. Pease read down to the impact it has had on children... so sad.

https://www.al.com/opinion/2020/02/...-public-health-crisis-is-urgently-needed.html


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## CatholicDad

To further my point that porn is wrong and ruins lives go read this: Opinion | The Children of Pornhub - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Yes, illegal porn should be dealt with harshly and porn can be damaging. The article has been out for days. 

No one here to disagree with those facts, do you think someone will?


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## CatholicDad

I think one of the pro-porn arguments is the ridiculous "I only consume ethically produced porn". We'll here is one of the largest websites with documented evidence of criminal activity and the abuse of minors. It's very apparent that they are perfectly fine with pedophilia. I'd say that anyone that visits Pornhub is a low life and basically supports of all of this too....If you don't reject it then you basically condone this evil and criminal activity! But oh sure, I can hear all the porn lovers say "but I don't watch the criminal videos"... yeah sure.

I'm hoping soon they are held liable for the abuse they've encouraged and profited from. I hope the world wakes up and can begin to call porn what it is... evil.


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## C.C. says ...

Cletus said:


> ... says the guy who probably spends a good portion of this time on Sunday in one of the greatest pedophile organizations in the history of the planet.
> 
> Cue the special pleading.


That’s ****ed up, man. There’s hope for y’all yet. 😆


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## Cletus

Imperfections said:


> Dude, you know what happens when you mention the “p” word... It’s almost as bad as mentioning the “r” word. The ‘gods’ don’t like them
> See you 3 days (maybe)


In this case, I think the charge is well supported by the evidence.


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## Imperfections

Cletus said:


> In this case, I think the charge is well supported by the evidence.


In this little universe, ‘evidence’ is hardly the right currency. But hope springs eternal.


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