# Good alpha rules to follow for men to improve their relationships



## Adex

Follow the below, and your relationship will improve.

The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon « Chateau Heartiste

"I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first

Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.

II. Make her jealous

Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.

III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority

Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.

IV. Don’t play by her rules

If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.

V. Adhere to the golden ratio

Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.

VI. Keep her guessing

True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.

VII. Always keep two in the kitty

Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.

VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary

Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.

IX. Connect with her emotions

Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.

X. Ignore her beauty

The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t ****ing. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.

XI. Be irrationally self-confident

No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more ***** than rational defeatism.

XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses

In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.

XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little

Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an *******, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate ******* beats being a polite beta, every time.

XIV. **** her good

**** her like it’s your last ****. And hers. **** her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.

XV. Maintain your state control

You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, **** tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

XVI. Never be afraid to lose her

You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her."


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## ManUp

in other words, say little and act like your **** don't stink.


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## Gaia

Adex...... This is completely stupid advice for those who aim to have a healthy, meaningful relationship. By the way replace her with him and you have the same imo stupid advice for women. I wouldnt be suprised if your cheated on or dumped..... Unless of course your wife likes being treated like crap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adex

Gaia said:


> Adex...... This is completely stupid advice for those who aim to have a healthy, meaningful relationship. By the way replace her with him and you have the same imo stupid advice for women. I wouldnt be suprised if your cheated on or dumped..... Unless of course your wife likes being treated like crap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you understood it, it says nothing about treating a woman like crap. Instead, it describes how NOT to put your woman on a pedestal. The two are quite different.


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## Thundarr

Little over the top. Some of it makes sense though. Probably more for dating than it is for keeping.


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## Holland

Adex said:


> If you understood it, it says nothing about treating a woman like crap. Instead, it describes how NOT to put your woman on a pedestal. The two are quite different.


No one should be put on a pedestal, that is unbalanced. But the above rubbish is as unbalanced in a different way, it spells out exactly how NOT to have a healthy, balanced and respectful relationship.

It encourages a power dynamic that is very limiting. It also shows a complete lack of understanding of strong women. It may well suit those that want a woman that does not have her own mind.


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## Adex

Thundarr said:


> Little over the top. Some of it makes sense though. Probably more for dating than it is for keeping.


True. Some of the major concepts can be applied to marriage.

Namely, adhere to the 2/3 golden ratio, don't make her your priority, don't apologize too much, keep her guessing, don't play by her rules, ignore her beauty, act self confident, satisfy her sexually, maintain self control, and NEVER be afraid of losing her.

The key though is to just live by this philosophy. Never talk about it to her or to anyone in real life. Your marriage and sex life will improve.


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## Adex

Obviously, many women and some guys will argue it's not the right way to have a healthy relationship. Of course, women don't want to hear this kind of stuff. 

However, if a man incorporated all these points in his life without his wife knowing, all she will see is a different or changed man. A man that could be seen as a challenge, of high value, more dominant, more of a leader, qualities that most or all women desire in a man. Undoubtedly, the relationship will improve.

To all the men that don't have sex, that have treated their wives the best they could and put them on a pedestal only to be treated like crap in return, this advice is for you. You don't need to go to a marriage counselor. All you need to do is change yourself into a better man, to man up. She WILL notice a change for the better and give you the respect you deserve.


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## Maricha75

Adex said:


> "I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first
> 
> Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.


Stupid "rule". Nothing wrong with a man saying "I love you" first. Honestly, I can't remember who said it first when my husband and I were dating. But now, we both say it..and we don't keep score over who says it most often.



Adex said:


> II. Make her jealous
> 
> Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.


If my husband flirts with another woman, or even encourages another woman to flirt with him, he would find his own way home AND he would be sleeping on the couch! Jealousy doesn't excite me. Jealousy pisses me off... and any man who feels the need to play that game can go f*ck himself.



Adex said:


> III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
> 
> Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.


No, I don't want the cliche "you complete me" lines... but I DO want to know he considers me his equal. And if he doesn't, he can leave. Guess what? I have an equal in my husband. 



Adex said:


> IV. Don’t play by her rules
> 
> If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.


To a certain extent, this is true... providing the man doesn't walk all over the woman.



Adex said:


> V. Adhere to the golden ratio
> 
> Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.


Again, another stupid "rule"... keeping score to make sure you don't give as much as you take? Wow... idiotic idea.



Adex said:


> VI. Keep her guessing
> 
> True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.


No. When I ask a question, I want the answer... not some stupid evasion. 



Adex said:


> VII. Always keep two in the kitty
> 
> Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.


Oh HELL no! If my husband had someone "waiting in the wings"...f*ck that sh!t! No, if you are COMMITTED to someone, you don't have a back up plan. WTF is this bullsh!t??



Adex said:


> VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
> 
> Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.


No, if you screw up, you own up to your mistakes and apologize. NOT apologizing is what will piss me off. No posturing. No maneuvering. Just straight up apologize if you are wrong. Admit to it and move on. It doesn't lower value, it increases.



Adex said:


> IX. Connect with her emotions
> 
> Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.


Seriously? After the bs above... THIS is allowed??? WTF??




Adex said:


> X. Ignore her beauty
> 
> The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t ****ing. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.


Again... wtf? Have sex with many women, but don't tell them they are beautiful... and don't have sex with ugly women because that makes you lose points, basically. Sorry, the virgin was better than the experienced man. And for a HUSBAND to not compliment his WIFE on her looks? How ridiculous can this guy be??



Adex said:


> XI. Be irrationally self-confident
> 
> No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more ***** than rational defeatism.


Sigh... this one started off pretty well... telling a man to be confident no matter what. And then it went to sh!t by comparing women to dogs, sniffing out weakness. 



Adex said:


> XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
> 
> In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. *Except World of Warcraft.*


Over all, I agree with this one.... except the bold part. There are women even for the WoW men... some of them are gamers as well. 



Adex said:


> XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
> 
> Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an *******, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate ******* beats being a polite beta, every time.


Ummm... no. If any man touched me inappropriately when I was dating, he got kicked to the curb. Respect is far more important to me.



Adex said:


> XIV. **** her good
> 
> **** her like it’s your last ****. And hers. **** her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.


Gee, what of the women who want slow and sensuous? Oh, that's right. We women don't know what we want. 



Adex said:


> XV. Maintain your state control
> 
> You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, **** tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.


At the same time... learn to recognize when she is genuine about the things she does. What you may consider a sh!t test, may be genuine, so make sure you keep that in mind as well.



Adex said:


> XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
> 
> You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her."


True, don't be afraid to lose her... but don't live your life in such a way that you push her away because some stupid "rules" tell you that is how you should be behaving.


Some of these, I agree with... others are a load of sh!t. I would hope that a real man would be able to discern between real advice and sh!t.


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## Gaia

I disagree because those key points you mention... Have resulted in me giving the finger and leaving. I have no respect for someone who ignores my beauty, doesnt make me a priority, keeps me guessing and acts as if he isnt afraid to lose me. That wreaks of insecurity, false sense of superiority, and immaturity to me. That is a little boy not worth my time to me. 

As a woman I respect a man with confidence, apologizes when he is wrong and admits to being wrong, admires my beauty, makes me a priority, respects my boundaries as well as expecting me to respect his. 

Those are qualities I find admirable in a man. I guess I am a minority?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75

Gaia said:


> I disagree because those key points you mention... Have resulted in me giving the finger and leaving. I have no respect for someone who ignores my beauty, doesnt make me a priority, keeps me guessing and acts as if he isnt afraid to lose me. That wreaks of insecurity, false sense of superiority, and immaturity to me. That is a little boy not worth my time to me.
> 
> As a woman I respect a man with confidence, apologizes when he is wrong and admits to being wrong, admires my beauty, makes me a priority, respects my boundaries as well as expecting me to respect his.
> 
> Those are qualities I find admirable in a man. I guess I am a minority?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We both are, Gaia. As I pointed out when I took them point by point.


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## Caribbean Man

Thundarr said:


> Little over the top. Some of it makes sense though. Probably more for dating than it is for keeping.


Chateau Heartsie is basically a handbook for young men on the dating scene.
It is the equivalent of those " dating advice " columns in women's magazines .
It is not about how to fall in love , it's about how to command respect and takes the guesswork out of how to get laid , every time , and when to move on.

It's not applicable to marriages or long term relationships.


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## Gaia

Maricha75 said:


> We both are, Gaia. As I pointed out when I took them point by point.


Lol I didnt see that until after I posted. Great post btw and totally feel the same as you of course!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adex

Caribbean Man said:


> It's not applicable to marriages or long term relationships.


Actually, I think a lot of the concepts are very useful in long term relationships.


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## Maricha75

Adex said:


> Actually, I think a lot of the concepts are very useful in long term relationships.


A lot of the concepts? And which ones, specifically, do you think are useful in a long term relationship?


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## Adex

I just named them in comment #7.


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## Holland

Adex said:


> Actually, I think a lot of the concepts are very useful in long term relationships.


I think the complete opposite and so does my big alpha man.


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## Gaia

Holland said:


> I think the complete opposite and so does my big alpha man.


Same and im another with an alpha! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TBT

May be okay for dating,but not in the long term.

I find it odd saying this in VI."True to their inscrutable natures.." and this in IX."Her mind is an alien world.." that the author(s) then goes on to explain exactly how women will react in given situations.


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## Adex

Holland said:


> I think the complete opposite and so does my big alpha man.


Then perhaps he's not a true alpha. Either he really doesn't believe those concepts which means he really isn't alpha.

Or he does but plays it down because he's afraid of what others on this forum will think. This in itself is not alpha-like because alphas don't give a fu$k what others think and don't need other people's approval.


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## Gaia

You said yourself you are NOT true alpha so you have NO room to say what a TRUE alpha wouls say, think, feel, ect let alone how he would act in a serious relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adex

Yes I'm not a true alpha. However, I know how one acts and thinks much like you know the jerk that acts like an ass at a bar is alpha like. If you don't agree with these concepts, then you're not an alpha.


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## Gaia

Wrong. An alpha who is NOT looking for a relationship acts that way. An alpha in a serious long term relationship cares for his partner and doesnt give a damn what others outside of the relationship think. I have been around and grew up with plenty of "alpha" men. They do love, care, and respect those they are closest too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adex

Gaia said:


> Wrong. An alpha who is NOT looking for a relationship acts that way. An alpha in a serious long term relationship cares for his partner and doesnt give a damn what others outside of the relationship think. I have been around and grew up with plenty of "alpha" men. They do love, care, and respect those they are closest too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True, but the points in the article DO NOT say anything about not loving or respecting your partner. You failed to understand it. I have incorporated many of these points in my marriage and my relationship has improved. I care for and love my wife. Your logic is incorrect.


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## Holland

Adex said:


> Then perhaps he's not a true alpha. Either he really doesn't believe those concepts which means he really isn't alpha.
> 
> Or he does but plays it down because he's afraid of what others on this forum will think. This in itself is not alpha-like because alphas don't give a fu$k what others think and don't need other people's approval.


No you are right, he is in fact a *true man*. He is alpha in his very successful career, he is respectful in our relationship which is very much based on equality.
He has his extra alpha moments in the bedroom, woot woot but he also likes to be tied up and let me bite his arse.

He has it all, he gets lots of sex. He thinks the stuff you posted is trash.


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## Adex

Holland said:


> No you are right, he is in fact a *true man*. He is alpha in his very successful career, he is respectful in our relationship which is very much based on equality.
> He has his extra alpha moments in the bedroom, woot woot but he also likes to be tied up and let me bite his arse.
> 
> He has it all, he gets lots of sex. He thinks the stuff you posted is trash.


He likes to get tied? Sounds like you trained him well. No not a true alpha if he has his woman talk for him.


----------



## Gaia

Ignoring her beauty? Keeping her guessing? Not making her a priority? Making her jealous? Having a back up plan? All mind games that works for dating but not something done in serious, long term relationships. That says loud and clear... "i dont love you nor do I respect you all that much"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Holland

Adex said:


> True, but the points in the article DO NOT say anything about not loving or respecting your partner. You failed to understand it. I have incorporated many of these points in my marriage and my relationship has improved. I care for and love my wife. Your logic is incorrect.





> V. Adhere to the golden ratio
> 
> Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas.* Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.*


Yes this is a great way to have a respectful, balanced relationship.


----------



## Adex

Gaia said:


> Ignoring her beauty? Keeping her guessing? Not making her a priority? Making her jealous? Having a back up plan? All mind games that works for dating but not something done in serious, long term relationships. That says loud and clear... "i dont love you nor do I respect you all that much"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Even if a wife is beautiful, there's no need to shower her with compliments. Making my life goals a priority over a wife says she's not on a pedestal. I don't agree really with the jealousy part. If it's there it's there. I don't agree with having a backup plan. I already said what I agreed with in comment #7 and I never said all of these concepts apply, a lot do.


----------



## Gaia

Fyi my alpha man doesnt shower me with compliments but he doesnt not compliment me either. There is nothing wrong with making your life goals a priority but there is nothing wrong with including your life mate in those goals either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Holland

Adex said:


> *Even if a wife is beautiful, there's no need to shower her with compliments*. Making my life goals a priority over a wife says she's not on a pedestal. I don't agree really with the jealousy part. If it's there it's there. I don't agree with having a backup plan. I already said what I agreed with in comment #7 and I never said all of these concepts apply, a lot do.


Well you are right, there is no need to shower her with compliments especially if you want to keep her down and are afraid of a woman with good self esteem.

I am beautiful, my partner tells me all the time. It makes me love him even more, again I have to say this guy gets lots of sex and has a woman by his side that has his back. I cook, clean and look after him. He does not have to keep me down to have a good relationship.
Big alpha man has enough confidence in himself to not be intimidated by a strong, beautiful woman.


----------



## Adex

Adex said:


> Namely, adhere to the 2/3 golden ratio, don't make her your priority, don't apologize too much, keep her guessing, don't play by her rules, ignore her beauty, act self confident, satisfy her sexually, maintain self control, and NEVER be afraid of losing her.


The above is what I agree with. What exactly is in there that shows I don't love or respect my wife?

Not giving her as many compliments, calls etc, (2/3 rule) just lets her do more of the chasing. Not making her a top priority compared with a career or other important life goals just means she's not on a pedestal. Not apologizing too much shows you're not weak. Keeping her guessing means keeping a bit of mysteriousness in you, something which can be attractive. Don't play by her rules means not listening to her orders and definitely NOT LETTING HER TIE YOU UP.

Ignoring her beauty means acknowledging it in your head, but not showering her with compliments so she won't take it for granted. Acting self confident explains itself as does satisfying her sexually. Maintaining self control in the face of her drama shows you to be steady and stable for her. NEVER being afraid of losing her means you won't beg her when she messes up, and she'll respect you for that.

Am I missing something here? This is EXACTLY HOW A MAN SHOULD ACT TO KEEP HIS WIFE IN LOVE WITH HIM.


----------



## Gaia

Maybe if you worded it this way to begin with you would get better responses. You didnt clarify what this meant in YOUR head and left room for much to be assumed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## In_The_Wind

I have found that just being myself works wonders. Who would have thought that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Adex

Congratulations on being an alpha.


----------



## AnnieAsh

I have to say, reading this stuff is HILARIOUS! Those poor men that follow that advice . Sheer and utter losers. Where's the rule about keeping the pimp hand strong?


----------



## LadyFrog

Where the hell is Trenton? :rofl:


----------



## Gaia

Or brighteyes.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ikaika

Don't take offense, but Adex how old are you?


----------



## Dollystanford

Actually you probably shouldn't let her tie you up - she might do it and go shopping for 7 hours like an exes girlfriend did to him


----------



## RandomDude

Thundarr said:


> Little over the top. Some of it makes sense though. *Probably more for dating than it is for keeping.*


Agreed, your post sums up this thread for me.

Anyways Adex, every action has a consequence and although some of these "rules" are important principles, you have to be flexible and know that being "beta" can be just as powerfully beneficially for your marriage and that being "alpha" can be a road to divorce.

For example, ignoring my wife's beauty/never saying ILU first/playing the jealousy game added to my wife's insecurity let alone her anger, dis-satisfaction, and also has justified every nasty sh-t that she has pulled over the years.

The best course of action and what I've learnt from this forum is very simple: Don't be an a$$, be nice, but be FIRM. And that's about it. These games that you posted are double-edged swords, I know because I have been guilty of playing them in the past.


----------



## WyshIknew

Gaia, Holland you do realise you are wasting your time don't you?

Or are you enjoying baiting Adex?

I think one of two things are happening here.

Either Adex is merely posting to get a reaction.

Or he really believes this stuff wholeheartedly and won't change his mind until harsh reality hits him.


----------



## johnnycomelately

Adex said:


> If you understood it, it says nothing about treating a woman like crap. Instead, it describes how NOT to put your woman on a pedestal. The two are quite different.


If you are so 'beta' that you need to re-engineer yourself like this you are lost. 

If you can't live a life true to yourself, life is not worth living.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I'm so grateful my husband doesn't act in this way ever, yet he's a very confident man and very protective of us. We have a beautiful marriage and the first thing he says to me in the morning is I love you. He says it first because its dark in the house and I can't see him. Then he says it again right before he leaves for work when he gives me a kiss. This affirms that I'm doing my job as his wife.

My husband and I live a pretty peaceful life inside our household minus the the kids when cranky. We have our off days and we communicate it, so we know not to bug one another.

This alpha talk is a bit too much. Alpha men tend to be more the macho type in my opinion. I don't have time for that attitude. I want a nice, kind and genuine man that adores me. I adore him right back. He puts my needs before his own, which I need since my life changed 5 years ago after breaking my neck. I've become extremely dependent on my husband. 

In return I frequently remind him how much I appreciate everything he does for me and the kids. I often thank him even for the little things like going to the grocery store and picking up the things I wrote on the list. I cook him homemade meals from scratch and I am now using all fresh foods right down to homegrown spices. This is something he really appreciates and tells others how much he loves my cooking. My husband also will thank me for the little things as well, like keeping the house clean, cooking a good meal and he's proud how I raise the children. 

We don't follow any books and we don't live like other married couples. We work as a team. He does more physical work then I do for obvious reasons. We do what works for us. We are both huge supporters if each other dreams, hobbies and goals. We have a very good marriage. Both my husband and I are up high on that pedestal together.


----------



## Gaia

WyshIknew said:


> Gaia, Holland you do realise you are wasting your time don't you?
> 
> Or are you enjoying baiting Adex?
> 
> I think one of two things are happening here.
> 
> Either Adex is merely posting to get a reaction.
> 
> Or he really believes this stuff wholeheartedly and won't change his mind until harsh reality hits him.



I figured I might be wasting my time but I thought I would try to help the OP understand that being a completely self centered jackass is not being alpha. If he was posting to get a reaction... Yes I fell for it. I am just sick of people assuming any form of kindness, nurturing, caring, ect is "beta". It drives me nuts because alphas DO have those qualities too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

I'm getting more than a little bored with this immature, misogynistic clap trap.:scratchhead:

One doesn't expect to find this sort of thing on a marriage / relationship forum where people are, presumably, striving to have healthy, adult relationships.


----------



## Enchanted

Cosmos said:


> I'm getting more than a little bored with this immature, misogynistic clap trap.:scratchhead:
> 
> One doesn't expect to find this sort of thing on a marriage / relationship forum where people are, presumably, striving to have healthy, adult relationships.


Maybe this thread is a cry for attention?


----------



## WyshIknew

Gaia said:


> I figured I might be wasting my time but I thought I would try to help the OP understand that being a completely self centered jackass is not being alpha. If he was posting to get a reaction... Yes I fell for it. I am just sick of people assuming any form of kindness, nurturing, caring, ect is "beta". It drives me nuts because alphas DO have those qualities too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I suppose mine was more of a rhetorical question.

I still think that framing everything in terms of beta=bad and alpha=good is the wrong approach. As you mention, when you take 'alpha' to far you become a jackass. And you don't want to be overly beta unless you are in a FLR.

My own thoughts are that you don't need to be alpha as such, although books like MMSLP are very good if you have let yourself go downhill as a man. They allow you to reset yourself so to speak.

You just need to be the best man you can be.

In my opinion, _alphas_ don't have those qualities you mention, kindness, caring etc.
*Real* men do. They are physically fit (to the best of their ability), they are caring, they are decisive, they are nurturing, they are confident etc. In other words a mixture of all the traits that make a well rounded individual.

I think a man could be mainly beta, but still at the end of the day put his foot down and not be a doormat.

Ok, if you go strictly by Adex's dogma a beta guy may not get laid by lots of different women but for most (I hope) married men this is not the aim in life. Their aim is for one woman to love them, and to love them back.
Although I dispute that there are not women for beta men, in fact there are many stories on here of alpha men whose wifes AP is a beta type.


----------



## Cosmos

Enchanted said:


> Maybe this thread is a cry for attention?


More like a whimper...


----------



## Enchanted

Cosmos said:


> More like a whimper...


LOL!


----------



## Mike6211

First post, been lurking a while.

Yes, I agree the OP 'rules' do smack of game-playing and are more 'controlling-macho-jerk' than 'alpha'. But here's something in them, that's for sure. Quite a bit of reference on this board to the need for men to 'man up' when the going gets sticky, often references to Athol's Married Man Sex Life Primer which I've skimmed through and which (first impressions) also seem rather rule-bound, prescriptive.

IMHO the book that lays it out like it is is David Deida's "The Way of the Superior Man". Unfortunate title - overtones of self-satisfied smugness, misogyny and pandering to men's competitiveness thus alienating them from other men. But still, as the saying goes, you don't judge a book by its cover.

Chapters deal with different aspects of the M-F relationship. Not 'rules'. Things to think around, to make you uncomfortable, point you in the direction of raising your game. Like his idea that a woman is biologically hard-wired at a deep, unconscious level to sniff out her man's area of weakness and 'press that button'. Painful for the man, but giving him the opportunity to face his demon, do his work, and grow. Which makes him more attractive, to her, to other women (and hence to her ... ) and more 'naturally alpha'. The 'natural alpha' would have an ingrained expectation that if his marriage ended, other quality women would enter his life - he wouldn't need to prop up his shaky self-confidence by keeping a woman in the wings to intimidate his wife as listed in the OP! And so on.

And yes, she really doesn't want to be "the most important thing in your life" - Deida gives the example of the man who chooses patriotically to enlist in the military to go fight a war, but when he gets to the front garden gate turns round and says to his wife "Actually, no ... YOU are the most important thing in my life ... I can't go, I'm staying with you". Is that going to get her juices flowing?

Anyway, it's a resource, and in my IMHO a good one.


----------



## Gaia

See that bugs me as well. Even in nature animals deemed alphas DO show nurturing, kindness, caring behaviors that people deem beta traits. Now I do believe as you do that a real man has a mix of many qualities but I still will be in the mind frame that if we are going to do an alpha, beta, omega label I feel as if alphas are getting too much of a bad rap by being labeled as insensitive asses. Considering humans are complex creatures there is no way.. In my mind.... That anyone could be "strictly" one way or the other. 

I know not everyone thinks that way though lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

Ok my last post was a response to wysh lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Enchanted

Mike6211 said:


> First post, been lurking a while.
> 
> Yes, I agree the OP 'rules' do smack of game-playing and are more 'controlling-macho-jerk' than 'alpha'. But here's something in them, that's for sure. Quite a bit of reference on this board to the need for men to 'man up' when the going gets sticky, often references to Athol's Married Man Sex Life Primer which I've skimmed through and which (first impressions) also seem rather rule-bound, prescriptive.
> 
> IMHO the book that lays it out like it is is David Deida's "The Way of the Superior Man". Unfortunate title - overtones of self-satisfied smugness, misogyny and pandering to men's competitiveness thus alienating them from other men. But still, as the saying goes, you don't judge a book by its cover.
> 
> Chapters deal with different aspects of the M-F relationship. Not 'rules'. Things to think around, to make you uncomfortable, point you in the direction of raising your game. Like his idea that a woman is biologically hard-wired at a deep, unconscious level to sniff out her man's area of weakness and 'press that button'. Painful for the man, but giving him the opportunity to face his demon, do his work, and grow. Which makes him more attractive, to her, to other women (and hence to her ... ) and more 'naturally alpha'. The 'natural alpha' would have an ingrained expectation that if his marriage ended, other quality women would enter his life - he wouldn't need to prop up his shaky self-confidence by keeping a woman in the wings to intimidate his wife as listed in the OP! And so on.
> 
> And yes, she really doesn't want to be "the most important thing in your life" - Deida gives the example of the man who chooses patriotically to enlist in the military to go fight a war, but when he gets to the front garden gate turns round and says to his wife "Actually, no ... YOU are the most important thing in my life ... I can't go, I'm staying with you". Is that going to get her juices flowing?
> 
> Anyway, it's a resource, and in my IMHO a good one.


I am the most important thing in my husbands life and that makes me feel cherished. It makes me realize how amazing my husband is and how lucky I am to have him. It makes other men look less appealing and uninteresting.


----------



## lovelygirl

TOTAL CRAP!

I don't agree with making your woman jealous on purpose everytime you're in the company of other people.

Also, ignoring her beauty? WTF??!!

Instead of never say "ILY" first it'd be better to say ILY once if the woman says it twice. This would be more rational. 

To be irrationally self-confident means to be arrogant! 
This is completely unacceptable.

This is the worst article I've ever read.


----------



## RandomDude

There are some principles which I do agree on -> maintaining your posture for example, not reacting to everything your wife does. That's a good principle, shame that the list itself has to be mixed in with jealousy games and refusal to affirm one's wife.

That's just how alot of these sites run, they do have a few good points but are unfortunately flooded with a whole bunch of "advice" fueled from bitterness. I still remember years ago I saw a few of these for women as well, man-hating sites really.

Same story, good principles -> e.g. a woman should be able to stand up for herself, should not be a doormat. But then you get into the chauvinistic side of things that portray men as if we are the enemy and then encourages women to justify their misdeeds because we're all evil.

Like come on...


----------



## Acoa

14 is the only one that counts. Do that right and you can get past just about anything.


----------



## Enchanted

RandomDude said:


> There are some principles which I do agree on -> maintaining your posture for example, not reacting to everything your wife does. That's a good principle, shame that the list itself has to be mixed in with jealousy games and refusal to affirm one's wife.
> 
> That's just how alot of these sites run, they do have a few good points but are unfortunately flooded with a whole bunch of "advice" fueled from bitterness. I still remember years ago I saw a few of these for women as well, man-hating sites really.
> 
> Same story, good principles -> e.g. a woman should be able to stand up for herself, should not be a doormat. But then you get into the chauvinistic side of things that portray men as if we are the enemy and then encourages women to justify their misdeeds because we're all evil.
> 
> Like come on...


I think the poster did this for shock value and to stir up conversations. It worked, we're posting on his thread. 

In real life this "alpha male" would be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder and spend his life gas-lighting any female that crosses his path.


----------



## WyshIknew

Gaia said:


> See that bugs me as well. Even in nature animals deemed alphas DO show nurturing, kindness, caring behaviors that people deem beta traits. Now I do believe as you do that a real man has a mix of many qualities but I still will be in the mind frame that if we are going to do an alpha, beta, omega label I feel as if alphas are getting too much of a bad rap by being labeled as insensitive asses. Considering humans are complex creatures there is no way.. In my mind.... That anyone could be "strictly" one way or the other.
> 
> I know not everyone thinks that way though lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, agree with you.

Although (theres always an although isn't there) animals such as male lions when taking over as the Alpha male will typically kill the young of the outgoing alpha male, not exactly 'nurturing'.


And as you say humans are complex. I consider myself to be fairly 'beta' but my wife laughingly disagrees and has told me that I am 'alpha' without trying, I just also mix in a lot of beta traits.
I agree with you that just as 'beta' types get an unfair label as somehow lesser men, it is also unfair to give 'alpha' a bad rap as uncaring, self centred etc.

I propose a new category. You have Alpha, Beta and downright just being an insensitive, self centred d!ckhead.


----------



## Halien

Adex said:


> Yes I'm not a true alpha. However, I know how one acts and thinks much like you know the jerk that acts like an ass at a bar is alpha like. If you don't agree with these concepts, then you're not an alpha.


Sorry, but I disagree. These rules appear to be dating tips 'to mimic' for someone who has struggled with getting someone interested. 

I don't think that I was or am the alpha type. I did grow up at times living with a father who applied tremendous pressure for his sons to 'score', even from a very early age. My grandmother wouldn't even let me visit him more than what was required when I didn't live with him. But, even though my friends still make up stories about my unique tendency to date women with gun-wielding ex-boyfriends, its the human element that I still remember. How something that seemed so casual to me was sometimes a very different thing to her.

That's my point. These people your 'rules' refer to are human. Do you know what is really attractive to real people in long term relationships, in my opinion? Being with someone who has a strong sense of their internal character, convictions, integrity, and who really values the woman who chose him. A man who has such a strong sense of what is right and wrong in the way he treats others that he doesn't need an outside set of 'rules' from the internet. One who sees lethargy settling into the relationship and responds instinctively to lead, stomp it out, or respects her abilities to lead when she does. A guy who welcomes her growth into being a strong woman because it never occurs to him to be intimidated by it.

Near as I can put together, I've only observed one trait that seems to exist in every guy who describes himself as beta. There is a reluctance, or maybe even fear that leads to mocking among his peers, that he can let himself be led by a strong inner vision of who he is, and his ability to shape the relationship. He sees himself as one who often responds to external stimuli, instead of managing them. Doesn't see the irony in going from being a person who does things for sex to being a person who deliberately doesn't do things to get more sex.


----------



## Halien

BTW - I have deleted a couple of insulting replies that violate forum rules for respect. Please, let's keep it respectful. It is possible to strongly disagree while still treating other members with respect.


----------



## Gaia

WyshIknew said:


> Yep, agree with you.
> 
> Although (theres always an although isn't there) animals such as male lions when taking over as the Alpha male will typically kill the young of the outgoing alpha male, not exactly 'nurturing'.
> 
> 
> And as you say humans are complex. I consider myself to be fairly 'beta' but my wife laughingly disagrees and has told me that I am 'alpha' without trying, I just also mix in a lot of beta traits.
> I agree with you that just as 'beta' types get an unfair label as somehow lesser men, it is also unfair to give 'alpha' a bad rap as uncaring, self centred etc.
> 
> I propose a new category. You have Alpha, Beta and downright just being an insensitive, self centred d!ckhead.


Lol sounds alright to me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I skimmed through the OP briefly because frankly I couldn't stomach letting every sentence pass through my brain.
but one thing struck me as I was reading.I want to know what sort of trauma the men who follow this have been through in order for them to think these rules are a great idea.What kind of woman broke them so badly that they need to follow these rules and treat all future women this way?
I won't be insulting or sarcastic but I will say if any man on this Earth applied these rules to me he would be single immediately and instructed to never call me again.
This isn't the way you treat your partner.This isn't the way you treat anyone who honestly cares for you.
If you're with someone who isn't treating you the way you need to be treated why resort to games like this?They aren't going to change who they are or how they treat you just because you begin to follow these rules.If you have to follow a plan like this then you've picked the wrong woman for you.
Expect the love and respect you give and if you're not getting it,communicate.Like a grown up would do.if that doesn't work,the person is obviously not compatible with you.No games or rules required.


----------



## Holland

WyshIknew said:


> Gaia, Holland you do realise you are wasting your time don't you?
> 
> Or are you enjoying baiting Adex?
> 
> I think one of two things are happening here.
> 
> Either Adex is merely posting to get a reaction.
> 
> Or he really believes this stuff wholeheartedly and won't change his mind until harsh reality hits him.


Yes but I see it more as sport than time wasting


----------



## WyshIknew

Holland said:


> Yes but I see it more as sport than time wasting


:lol::rofl::rofl:


----------



## johnnycomelately

ScarletBegonias said:


> I want to know what sort of trauma the *men* who follow this have been through in order for them to think these rules are a great idea.


That is where you went wrong. *Men *don't.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

johnnycomelately said:


> That is where you went wrong. *Men *don't.


They're still men.They're misguided and probably hurting from something that happened in their past or something that is happening in their present but they're still men.


----------



## Holland

ScarletBegonias said:


> They're still men.They're misguided and probably hurting from something that happened in their past or something that is happening in their present but they're still men.


Yes and sadly some of them are raising little mini me unbalanced future men.
I have met a few like this, my ex BIL for one. The common thing is that they are unable to take responsibility for their own failings so they have to blame someone else.

Instead of standing up and being a real man they blame women and try to hold women down. 
Fortunately the world is also full of great men, they are the ones that can help to shape the good men of the future.


----------



## Thundarr

ScarletBegonias said:


> I want to know what sort of trauma the men who follow this have been through in order for them to think these rules are a great idea.What kind of woman broke them so badly that they need to follow these rules and treat all future women this way?
> I won't be insulting or sarcastic but I will say if any man on this Earth applied these rules to me he would be single immediately and instructed to never call me again.


I think habitual doormatts should study the list. Doormatts may need an extreme bulleted list to break their habits. Kind of the shock factor in how to think. A smart fellow though would figure out to tone is down a little bit.


----------



## WyshIknew

ScarletBegonias said:


> I skimmed through the OP briefly because frankly I couldn't stomach letting every sentence pass through my brain.
> but one thing struck me as I was reading.I want to know what sort of trauma the men who follow this have been through in order for them to think these rules are a great idea.What kind of woman broke them so badly that they need to follow these rules and treat all future women this way?
> I won't be insulting or sarcastic but I will say if any man on this Earth applied these rules to me he would be single immediately and instructed to never call me again.
> This isn't the way you treat your partner.This isn't the way you treat anyone who honestly cares for you.
> If you're with someone who isn't treating you the way you need to be treated why resort to games like this?They aren't going to change who they are or how they treat you just because you begin to follow these rules.If you have to follow a plan like this then you've picked the wrong woman for you.
> Expect the love and respect you give and if you're not getting it,communicate.Like a grown up would do.if that doesn't work,the person is obviously not compatible with you.No games or rules required.


Perhaps someone a little like this. I'm not saying it would be correct, but I could see where a man could be so broken by this if he let himself he would want to find answers in anything.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sion/65559-wife-unfaithful-last-10-years.html

To be honest this would break me too I think. Although I doubt that I would have let the situation develop beyond the initial problem.


----------



## Thundarr

There's a much shorter list of principles required to be a man who a great woman wants.

When I read the alpha list, there's such a fine line that separates a strong confident guy with boundaries and expectations verses an insensitive selfish jerk who sees women as inferior. Most men who follow a list like this don't know why some of these things make them *appear* more desirable so they're really posers and are destin to screw up when they find a woman they'd like to keep. It is a mirage.

Plus this works better on younger women or girls but not so well later on.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Adex said:


> Follow the below, and your relationship will improve.
> 
> 
> *"I]. Never say ‘I Love You’ first*
> 
> Only say " I love you " when you mean it.
> But firstly you must understand what " I love You " really means.
> 
> *II]. Make her jealous*
> 
> Never flirt with another woman in fort of your wife. It is disrespectful. You don't need to make a woman feel jealous ,they are that way when they are with men who are desired by other women. Make her proud and confident by treating her with respect
> Human beings are competitive by nature.
> 
> *III.] You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority*
> 
> My mission is my priority, but my wife is an integral part of my mission. Together we work to achieve a good marriage and a successful business and a brighter future. However, if she decides that she no longer wants to be part of our mission, I remain constant in my focus. I am NOT going to beg or compete with another man for her love or attention.
> 
> *IV.] Don’t play by her rules*
> 
> Neither of us make up any rules. That happened _before_ marriage. We now both agree to our boundaries and we live within them. There is no competing for leadership role because long ago we agreed that I am in charge. I set the pace, I ensure that things in the relationship are good ,the bills are paid, and food is on the table .When things go wrong I am the one to be held responsible and shoulder the blame. .
> 
> 
> *V.] Adhere to the golden ratio*
> 
> There is no " golden ratio" of what I give to my wife. We both give each other what we want and need for our relationship to thrive. I treat her as I treat myself. I love designer clothes , fragrances , shoes and accessories.She purchases them for me. She loves the same including sexy lingerie , I purchase them all for her. I don't take her for granted and she does the same. If I feel taken for granted I let my feelings known and she does what she can to correct it.
> 
> 
> 
> *VI]. Keep her guessing*
> 
> In marriage as well as other relationships, a certain amount of this is necessary. However in marriage this works best IMO , by being unpredictable. Women love surprises , it builds a certain amount of attraction. Simply do the things that she likes when she's least expecting it. In order to do this , you must study and _know_ your woman.
> 
> *VII.] Always keep two in the kitty*
> 
> This rule applies but in a different way. In monogamous marriages , extramarital lovers are not an option. So this is how it applies.
> A man must have enough self respect to walk away from a woman wife who refuses to respect him and the marital boundaries.
> He must NEVER beg her for her attention or sexual favours . He refuses to compete against another man for her affection or be a cuckold . He WALKS even if there are children involved. A real man takes his kids, and walks. Whenever he decides to walk, it is the walk of a confident man who knows exactly what he wants to do,and not the wobbly walk of a man who allows himself to be forever beaten down by life's circumstances.
> He chooses when and what type of woman he would get involved with , and under what circumstances.
> Those are his options.
> 
> 
> 
> *VIII.] Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessar*y
> 
> Say you're sorry only if you mean it. If you don't know how to spot when you are wrong , then the relationship cannot work.
> 
> *IX]. Connect with her emotions*
> 
> Firstly, connect with your innermost emotions. Know yourself first, then you can connect in a positive way with hers.
> 
> *X.] Ignore her beauty*
> 
> In a healthy marriage relationship, it is a man's duty to make his woman feel sexy and desired by him. The best way to do this is to give her positive reinforcements about her efforts to make herself beautiful for you.
> This guarantees that you would NEVER have to ask for sex.
> He needs to tell her she is beautiful , sexy, touch her , hold her, and feel her. Let her know that even though there are many other beautiful women around , you only see her.
> 
> 
> *XI.] Be irrationally self-confident*
> 
> I agree.
> But firstly you must know exactly where you are going and what you are doing. NEVER depend on people who are losers for direction. You would only end up lost just like them.
> Never ask a woman " was it good ? " after sex.
> Never ask her if you are the best she's ever had, if you are , she would stay quiet.
> Never ask a woman about the size of your d!ck, if its was the biggest she's ever had, she wouldn't stay quiet.
> Use what you have with much self confidence.
> 
> *XII.] Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses*
> 
> Maximize your strengths , but work hard on your weaknesses.
> 
> 
> *XIII]. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little*
> 
> Fortune favours the bold.
> 
> *XIV]. **** her good*
> 
> No argument here, the same rule applies to married sex life. It's the only way you get respected in the bedroom.
> 
> 
> *XV]Maintain your state control*
> 
> Marry a woman who's not into shyt games and you will not have to shelter from her histrionic outbursts, blame shifting and shyt testing.
> 
> *XVI.] Never be afraid to lose her*
> 
> Real men fear nothing. They respect others but would never accept disrespect from anybody. They constantly assess the relationship, do what needs to be done to improve it , and they know when its time for letting go.


Ok folks,
I have adjusted that list to suit a marriage or long term relationship.
Have a look and comment.


----------



## Thundarr

Yes CM that does look better.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

real men fear nothing? I don't think I could be with a man who says he's afraid of nothing.


----------



## Enchanted

ScarletBegonias said:


> real men fear nothing? I don't think I could be with a man who says he's afraid of nothing.


Anyone who fears nothing will not live long.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Enchanted said:


> Anyone who fears nothing will not live long.


".....A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come....”

William Shakespeare. _Julius Ceasar_


----------



## Enchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> ".....A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come....”
> 
> William Shakespeare. _Julius Ceasar_


Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.


----------



## T&T

ScarletBegonias said:


> real men fear nothing? I don't think I could be with a man who says he's afraid of nothing.


Everyone has fears. Men and woman. It's part on human nature.


----------



## BjornFree

Incorporating all these rules into a relationship leaves no space for having fun and just enjoying the ride. Its almost like walking on eggshells, especially with the 2/3rd rule and timing your ILY's. It makes relationships seem complicated.


----------



## Caribbean Man

ScarletBegonias said:


> real men fear nothing? I don't think I could be with a man who says he's afraid of nothing.


 "...Hate is the consequence of fear; we fear something before we hate it; a child who fears noises becomes a man who hates noise..." 

Fear of the unknown, different, and misunderstood breeds hatred for these such things. Fear is most often rooted in ignorance.

Early in our marriage, we were heading for the rocks. I brought up MC. We went to the MC. We both had some one and one sessions.
Certain things in our relationship became clear and a great fear overcame me. I feared I would loose my wife.
It went into solitary confinement for about three days and faced my fears. When I came out I was fearless and confident about what needed to be done.
That was fourteen years ago.
Today our bond is much stronger because I let go of _fear_.

Fear makes people do irrational things in relationships.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

I am seeing some really man-hating crap here from some users that is baffling me.

Not making your woman a priority is bad? It makes the man a jerk? 
For me any man who puts his relationships and another person in front of himself is a doormat. Seriously everybody should first care for themselves and then others(abiding basic morals, of course) What is wrong with this? It is never said that bringing your woman along for the ride that is your life is a bad thing. But it is your life, nonetheless.

Not acknowledging her beauty? This is a great way for not pedestalizing women. She already knows she's beautiful. She already gets attention just because she is pretty. Not acknowledging this(or just saying meh she ain't all that in your mind) allows you a real relationship without getting swept around by this.

Of course a balanced amount of self confidence is the best. But seeing the CWI boards, seeing myself, it is always better to say "I am a king and I deserve the world to be my kitty litter" than to say "OMFG I'm a loser boohoo". When in doubt, go for more rather than less.

Keeping other women on the side and deliberately making her jealous is unacceptable. But your wife/gf should subconciously understand that you are a catch and if she screws up, she can be replaced. Come on now, how many stories are here that the WW obviously doesn't think her husband can ever get with another woman, thus taking him for granted.

Teasing, keeping her guessing are all fun things, they are done to spark up the relation of course you don't do them always, but intermittent actions do cause excitement.

I love how prejudiced people can get when they see commandments like these. If you don't have the brains to exclude any rules that don't work for you, change some stuff and included other things, how is it anybody's problem but yours?

And those saying that an alpha man has kindness etc. Alpha is not good, beta is not bad. They are sliding scales, they are just classifications. Any relationship between any two people have components of these by different ratios. 

Of course "natural" men and women don't get this stuff, don't need to get this stuff, because they already understand it subconciously. But I can tell you there is at least a %60 of men who don't understand attraction and relationships. For them there is "game".


----------



## BjornFree

Caribbean Man said:


> "...Hate is the consequence of fear; we fear something before we hate it; a child who fears noises becomes a man who hates noise..."
> 
> Fear of the unknown, different, and misunderstood breeds hatred for these such things. Such fear is most often rooted in ignorance.


Question CM, would you swim in a pool full of hungry crocodiles ?


----------



## Thundarr

ScarletBegonias said:


> real men fear nothing? I don't think I could be with a man who says he's afraid of nothing.


I didn't take it that literally. I took it as real men do what's right regardless and don't let fears control them.


----------



## Amplexor

Thundarr said:


> There's a much shorter list of principles required to be a man who a great woman wants.
> 
> When I read the alpha list, there's such a fine line that separates a strong confident guy with boundaries and expectations verses an insensitive selfish jerk who sees women as inferior. .


:iagree:

All kidding aside on the alpha/beta front the "rules" are someone's ideals based on their thought process and relationship styles. I don't often wade into these discussions but will as my confidence played a huge part in my R. I will use the term confidence not alpha as that is my thought process and what works in my marriage. If someone wants to argue semantics, fine.

When my marriage went to hell and I found myself clawing with all I had to recover it my confidence went out the window, a trait my wife had said many times was a "strong draw" for her. The more that waned the more she slipped away. I took me nearly a year to figure out that "not rocking the boat" was just successful strategy for divorce. We were going nowhere and I was too petrified to "demand" the marriage back. That is why the word "Confidence" is the first word in my signature and has been since 2008 when I joined TAM. Only when she saw that return did she begin go believe we'd be OK and have faith that I could pull us out of it.

It comes in many forms. When my wife gets home from work and I am in the kitchen fixing dinner it does not reflect servitude, it signifies I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself and the kids. 

It comes in serving my wife when I can tell from the look in her eyes she has had an extremely tough day. (Her job is much more stressful than mine.) To stop what I am doing, get her a glass of wine, sit her down and let her vent. I've learned to shut off the male tendency to "take control and fix it" and quietly listen to her and not interject. Not saying a word to your wife can say volumes to her.

I accept and respect that my wife's IQ is higher than mine. Her near straight A average with a masters degree from an academically superior university in comparison to my barely B average in my bachelor's degree from a football U is testament. I am not and never have been intimidated by that. There is book smart and there is street smart. We compliment each other in many areas of decision process in the house hold on these strengths. And in some areas she defers 100% of the leadership.

I respect my wife but do not fear her. 

I don't get shyt tests because we are confident in our marriage and we don't need petty validation in it.

I am in awe of my wife in the areas of the marriage, parenting and household needs that I know I just can't compete in. It doesn't bruise my ego to complement her about it either.

I have no guilt in leaving her for my bi-weekly pool game or monthly poker outing with my peer group. Nor do I have any anxiety if she chooses to go do something without me.

I understand when my wife wants to be made love to and when she needs to be F****D.

I don't get confrontational with her unless it is truly something that warrants both our attention.

I don't seek validation from my wife, it is understood through her respect for what I do.

I sought my wife's loving embrace to cry when my father died. I was neither embarrassed about it or felt a need to apologize for it. 

I am confident enough in my manhood to admit when I just did something so cro-magnom that she has the right and duty to laugh at it.


----------



## BjornFree

Thundarr said:


> I didn't take it that literally. I took it as real men do what's right regardless and don't let fears control them.


And how is that not being afraid of something? Brave people are the ones who stand their ground even when they are peeing in their pants. That can only happen if you acknowledge your fears. People who fear nothing are people who live in denial.


----------



## Thundarr

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I love how prejudiced people can get when they see commandments like these. If you don't have the brains to exclude any rules that don't work for you, change some stuff and included other things, how is it anybody's problem but yours?
> 
> Of course "natural" men and women don't get this stuff, don't need to get this stuff, because they already understand it subconciously. But I can tell you there is at least a %60 of men who don't understand attraction and relationships. For them there is "game".


:iagree: 
I saw a lot that didn't make sense to me in the original list (and a lot that did) and then CM was nice enough to translate his variation which I agree with almost completely.


----------



## Halien

ScarletBegonias said:


> I skimmed through the OP briefly because frankly I couldn't stomach letting every sentence pass through my brain.
> but one thing struck me as I was reading.I want to know what sort of trauma the men who follow this have been through in order for them to think these rules are a great idea.What kind of woman broke them so badly that they need to follow these rules and treat all future women this way?
> .


Not trying to justify it, but I think many men face some pretty painful truths when they are dating or married. We could argue whether or not they get themselves into such a situation, but it still deeply impacts their own sense of well-being in relationships. I had several close friends in college who were extremely gifted, and would have sacrificed every ounce of dignity to date almost any woman there. But at least in this college, the women wouldn't even give nice, intelligent, but otherwise average guys a second glance. 

My older brother went through similar struggles. I just think its easy for many men to enter relationships from a point of inferiority, in the sense that they'll initially let her dictate the acceptable standards. But not being true to who you really are, and what you really want will not last forever in a relationship. 

If you think about it, most young men don't see a lot of material out there on how to be a strong, mature man in a modern society, where the focus is inward character, supportive of a modern, strong wife. Even media rarely presents fathers in a positive light, and the strong ones aren't modelled around the real world. To me, I think its sad that too many people try to fill this void with recipes on how to get the upper hand in a relationship.


----------



## Thundarr

BjornFree said:


> And how is that not being afraid of something? Brave people are the ones who stand their ground even when they are peeing in their pants. That can only happen if you acknowledge your fears. People who fear nothing are people who live in denial.


We agree. Just saying I read the comment to mean what you just said about brave. Maybe I read it wrong.


----------



## Caribbean Man

BjornFree said:


> Question CM, would you swim in a pool full of hungry crocodiles ?


I have no fear of crocks, Bjorn,
But I respect the fact that water is their natural territory and they don't take kindly to other species invading their space.

Just like I would never walk into a police station with my licensed gun in my hand.

I much rather swim in the sea or river, or leave my gun holstered when I go into the station.
There is a big difference between fear and respect.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Thundarr said:


> I didn't take it that literally. I took it as real men do what's right regardless and don't let fears control them.


Its that simple.


----------



## johnnycomelately

Caribbean Man said:


> I have no fear of crocks, Bjorn,
> But I respect the fact that water is their natural territory and they don't take kindly to other species invading their space.


On the contrary...they love it when other species invade their territory. It is called dinner time.

How the hell did this discussion get here?


----------



## ScarletBegonias

BjornFree said:


> And how is that not being afraid of something? Brave people are the ones who stand their ground even when they are peeing in their pants. That can only happen if you acknowledge your fears. People who fear nothing are people who live in denial.


That's part of what I feel makes someone a good,strong person..man or woman.
which is why I said I couldn't be with someone who claimed to fear nothing,I would consider them a slippery coward.


----------



## johnnycomelately

_"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

— Robert Heinlein_


----------



## TeaLeaves4

Amplexor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> All kidding aside on the alpha/beta front the "rules" are someone's ideals based on their thought process and relationship styles. I don't often wade into these discussions but will as my confidence played a huge part in my R. I will use the term confidence not alpha as that is my thought process and what works in my marriage. If someone wants to argue semantics, fine.
> 
> When my marriage went to hell and I found myself clawing with all I had to recover it my confidence went out the window, a trait my wife had said many times was a "strong draw" for her. The more that waned the more she slipped away. I took me nearly a year to figure out that "not rocking the boat" was just a stop gap strategy before divorce. We were going nowhere and I was too petrified to "demand" the marriage back. That is why the word "Confidence" is the first word in my signature and has been since 2008 when I joined TAM. Only when she saw that return did she begin go believe we'd be OK and have faith that I could pull us out of it.
> 
> It comes in many forms. When my wife gets home from work and I am in the kitchen fixing dinner it does not reflect servitude, it signifies I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself and the kids.
> 
> It comes in serving my wife when I can tell from the look in her eyes she has had an extremely tough day. (Her job is much more stressful than mine even though I make twice as much.) To stop what I am doing, get her a glass of wine, sit her down and let her vent. I've learned to shut off the male tendency to "take control and fix it" and quietly listen to her and not interject. Not saying a word to your wife can say volumes to her.
> 
> I accept and respect that my wife's IQ is higher than mine. Her near straight A average with a masters degree from an academically superior university in comparison to my barely B average in my bachelor's degree from a football U is testament. I am not and never have been intimidated by that. There is book smart and there is street smart. We compliment each other in many areas of decision process in the house hold. And in some areas she defers 100% of the leadership.
> 
> I respect my wife but do not fear her.
> 
> I don't get shyt tests because we are confident in our marriage and we don't need petty validation in it.
> 
> I am in awe of my wife in the areas of the marriage, parenting and household needs that I know I just can't compete in. It doesn't bruise my ego to complement her about it either.
> 
> I have no guilt in leaving her for my bi-weekly pool game or monthly poker outing with my peer group. Nor do I have any anxiety if she chooses to go do something without me.
> 
> I understand when my wife wants to be made love to and when she needs to be F****D.
> 
> I don't get confrontational with her unless it is truly something that warrants both our attention.
> 
> I don't seek validation from my wife, it is understood through her respect for what I do.
> 
> I sought my wife's loving embrace to cry when my father died.
> 
> I am confident enough in my manhood to admit when I just did something so cro-magnom that she has the right and duty to laugh at it.


Real man.


----------



## Caribbean Man

BjornFree said:


> And how is that not being afraid of something? Brave people are the ones who stand their ground even when they are peeing in their pants. That can only happen if you acknowledge your fears. People who fear nothing are people who live in denial.


Acknowledging your fears doesn't mean that you are afraid . Refusing to fear or let your fears control your actions does not mean you are living in denial.
Acknowledging your fears is acknowledging your weaknesses.
Acknowledging your weaknesses gives you two choices, fight or flight.
People who have fear always run, people who face their fears know when and how to fight.
They don't let fear control them.
They are not afraid.


----------



## TeaLeaves4

So, Spandex, basically what you're saying is we women-folk only deserve to have 2/3 of our needs met. 

Right. Time to grow up, pal. And don't be surprised at what happens when whoever is currently putting up with you grows up too.


----------



## BjornFree

I think one of my fears when I was a younger was that I would be a bad father. I was responsible to no one but myself in my 20's and then there I was at 31 holding a tiny little baby boy, who btw was a month premature, for the first time realizing that I had a wife and a kid who depended on me. Paralyzing, especially when you know nothing about changing diapers.


----------



## Caribbean Man

johnnycomelately said:


> On the contrary...they love it when other species invade their territory. It is called dinner time.
> 
> *How the hell did this discussion get here?*


I think its called " cherry picking " or tangential reasoning.


----------



## BjornFree

Caribbean Man said:


> I think its called " cherry picking " or tangential reasoning.


* Raises Hand*


----------



## Halien

Caribbean Man said:


> I have no fear of crocks, Bjorn,
> But I respect the fact that water is their natural territory and they don't take kindly to other species invading their space.
> 
> Just like I would never walk into a police station with my licensed gun in my hand.
> 
> I much rather swim in the sea or river, or leave my gun holstered when I go into the station.
> There is a big difference between fear and respect.


Really, if the subject of crocodiles even occasionally comes up in your relationship or dating life, from a practical perspective, you've got bigger problems than this site can address, right? But for me, I try not to let fear of change, fear of feeling vulnerable, looking at myself in the mirror to judge my real motivations, or fear of challenging a dysfunctional status quo keep me from having the type of relationship that my wife and I crave. Have to admit that my wife sometimes picks on me for being hard-headed and an idealist, but that's usually after the afterglow phase of the weekend.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Amplexor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> All kidding aside on the alpha/beta front the "rules" are someone's ideals based on their thought process and relationship styles. I don't often wade into these discussions but will as my confidence played a huge part in my R. I will use the term confidence not alpha as that is my thought process and what works in my marriage. If someone wants to argue semantics, fine.
> 
> When my marriage went to hell and I found myself clawing with all I had to recover it my confidence went out the window, a trait my wife had said many times was a "strong draw" for her. The more that waned the more she slipped away. I took me nearly a year to figure out that "not rocking the boat" was just successful strategy for divorce. *We were going nowhere and I was too petrified to "demand" the marriage back. * That is why the word "Confidence" is the first word in my signature and has been since 2008 when I joined TAM. Only when she saw that return did she begin go believe we'd be OK and have faith that I could pull us out of it.
> 
> It comes in many forms. When my wife gets home from work and I am in the kitchen fixing dinner it does not reflect servitude, it signifies I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself and the kids.
> 
> It comes in serving my wife when I can tell from the look in her eyes she has had an extremely tough day. (Her job is much more stressful than mine.) To stop what I am doing, get her a glass of wine, sit her down and let her vent. I've learned to shut off the male tendency to "take control and fix it" and quietly listen to her and not interject. Not saying a word to your wife can say volumes to her.
> 
> I accept and respect that my wife's IQ is higher than mine. Her near straight A average with a masters degree from an academically superior university in comparison to my barely B average in my bachelor's degree from a football U is testament. I am not and never have been intimidated by that. There is book smart and there is street smart. We compliment each other in many areas of decision process in the house hold on these strengths. And in some areas she defers 100% of the leadership.
> 
> *I respect my wife but do not fear her.
> 
> I don't get shyt tests because we are confident in our marriage and we don't need petty validation in it.
> 
> I am in awe of my wife in the areas of the marriage, parenting and household needs that I know I just can't compete in. It doesn't bruise my ego to complement her about it either.
> 
> I have no guilt in leaving her for my bi-weekly pool game or monthly poker outing with my peer group. Nor do I have any anxiety if she chooses to go do something without me.
> 
> I understand when my wife wants to be made love to and when she needs to be F****D.
> 
> I don't get confrontational with her unless it is truly something that warrants both our attention.
> 
> I don't seek validation from my wife, it is understood through her respect for what I do.
> 
> I sought my wife's loving embrace to cry when my father died. I was neither embarrassed about it or felt a need to apologize for it.
> 
> I am confident enough in my manhood to admit when I just did something so cro-magnom that she has the right and duty to laugh at it.*


^^^^^^^^^^
My point exactly.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Halien said:


> If you think about it, most young men don't see a lot of material out there on how to be a strong, mature man in a modern society, where the focus is inward character, supportive of a modern, strong wife. Even media rarely presents fathers in a positive light, and the strong ones aren't modelled around the real world.


This is the generation of lost males struggling with their own sexuality and autophobia.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

TeaLeaves4 said:


> So, Spandex, basically what you're saying is we women-folk only deserve to have 2/3 of our needs met.
> 
> Right. Time to grow up, pal. And don't be surprised at what happens when whoever is currently putting up with you grows up too.


No they are not needs. They are wants. And yes, women do not need to have all their wants met. Neither do men.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Halien said:


> But for me, I try not to let fear of change, fear of feeling vulnerable, looking at myself in the mirror to judge my real motivations, or fear of challenging a dysfunctional status quo keep me from having the type of relationship that my wife and I crave.


:iagree:

Problem is that a lot of men sometimes allow the same " fears " to cripple their ability to lead in their relationships. This in turn frustrates the woman and from there its a downward spiral.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Carribean Men, i think you are using the meanings of some words wrong. 

Being afraid means feeling fear. Feeling fear is one thing, being crippled by it is another thing. It is okay to feel fear. It is not okay to be crippled by fear and not doing anything about it(asking for help, dealing wth your issues etc.).


----------



## Code-Welder

Thundarr said:


> Little over the top. Some of it makes sense though. Probably more for dating than it is for keeping.


Bingo, some makes sense, others would never have flown with my wife.


----------



## WyshIknew

I feel some of you are falling into the same trap the op is falling into.
That a man is defined by *your* definition of a man.

I feel that a man merely has to be the best person he can be and be able look into the mirror figuratively speaking and be happy with what he sees.


----------



## BjornFree

WyshIknew said:


> I feel some of you are falling into the same trap the op is falling into.
> That a man is defined by *your* definition of a man.
> 
> I feel that a man merely has to be the best person he can be and be able look into the mirror figuratively speaking and be happy with what he sees.


Alpha comment.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

WyshIknew said:


> I feel that a man merely has to be the best person he can be and be able look into the mirror figuratively speaking and be happy with what he sees.


That goes for women too.


----------



## Caribbean Man

WyshIknew said:


> I feel that a man merely has to be the best person he can be and be able look into the mirror figuratively speaking and be happy with what he sees.


Some or most men/ women are not happy with the man they see when they look in the mirror.
If they were then we would not even be having this conversation.

What should they do then?

How does a man " Be the best man that he could be?"
What are his reference points , how does he know he's doing his best? What if that which he thinks is his best is not good enough for his wife ,SO or those who he has to co exist with in order to get by?


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

WyshIknew said:


> I feel some of you are falling into the same trap the op is falling into.
> That a man is defined by *your* definition of a man.
> 
> I feel that a man merely has to be the best person he can be and be able look into the mirror figuratively speaking and be happy with what he sees.


Yes, this is called self-approval. It is one of the main points that is talked about in "No more Mr Nice guy".


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Caribbean Man said:


> Some or most men/ women are not happy with the man they see when they look in the mirror.
> If they were then we would not even be having this conversation.
> 
> What should they do then?


Ask themselves what they want. Not "what do I need to do for my family/wife/kids/friends". 

"What I do I want and need to do for myself".

A lot of people fall into the trap that is the need for external approval, doing things that they think will generate other people's approval(mainly for fear of rejection) and losing themselves in the process.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Ask themselves what they want. Not "what do I need to do for my family/wife/kids/friends".
> 
> "*What I do I want and need to do for myself*".
> 
> A lot of people fall into the trap that is the need for external approval, doing things that they think will generate other people's approval(mainly for* fear *of rejection) and losing themselves in the process.


^^^^^
My point exactly.
In comes the " man up " or alpha concept. Simply taking responsibility for the problems in YOUR life.

And there's that word again. *FEAR*.
Fear immobilizes men. They are afraid to look at themselves critically and assess themselves, their relationships and their family.
They are afraid to take responsibility for being a crappy husband , father or employee.
They prefer to hide behind the facade and pretend everything's all right even though there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


----------



## Enchanted

I fear I'm spending too much time on the TAM forum.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby

Adex said:


> "I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first


I'm not sure I get all this alpha stuff but this looks like the woman leading emotionally and I don't see how that translates into alpha


----------



## WyshIknew

Caribbean Man said:


> Some or most men/ women are not happy with the man they see when they look in the mirror.
> If they were then we would not even be having this conversation.
> 
> What should they do then?
> 
> How does a man " Be the best man that he could be?"
> What are his reference points , how does he know he's doing his best? What if that which he thinks is his best is not good enough for his wife ,SO or those who he has to co exist with in order to get by?


Bit pushed for time so quick comment and then I have to run.

I don't feel that I have to be the best man I can be for my wife, she has to be able to sort her own shet out.

I am the best man I can be for me. Hopefully by extension that means my wife and children too.


----------



## yellowledbet

I think the OP is kidding... I hope he is kidding


----------



## Caribbean Man

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I'm not sure I get all this alpha stuff but this looks like the woman leading emotionally and I don't see how that translates into alpha


I don't think its about who says " I love you " first.
When you say " I love you " you [ man / woman ] should mean every word of it.

Lots of people get mixed up with other feelings and think its love.
Love does not play games.
Love does not intentionally do things to hurt the other partner.
Love does not seek constant validation.
Only people who truly know themselves could love in the deepest sense.


----------



## Caribbean Man

WyshIknew said:


> I don't feel that I have to be the best man I can be for my wife, she has to be able to sort her own shet out.


What if she can't sort her shet out?
what would you do then?


----------



## Zig

From now on I'm going to use the Golden Rule in dating/relationships: Treat her like I want her to treat me.

I'll give 100% and expect 100%. If she can't do that or doesn't like the real me, then f**k her. I won't pretend to be someone I'm not. That's a terrible way to go through life.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Zig said:


> From now on I'm going to use the Golden Rule in dating/relationships: Treat her like I want her to treat me.
> 
> I'll give 100% and expect 100%. If she can't do that or doesn't like the real me, then f**k her. I won't pretend to be someone I'm not. That's a terrible way to go through life.


YAY!!!!  It's cool seeing a man have the exact thoughts I have for myself.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Zig said:


> I'll give 100% and expect 100%. If she can't do that or doesn't like the real me, then f**k her. I won't pretend to be someone I'm not. That's a terrible way to go through life.


And what do you do if every woman you choose doesn't like the " real you ", or gives you what you perceive as less whilst you give 100%?
What do you do then?

Should you really be giving 100% expecting 100% back?
How do you know when she's giving her 100%?
Suppose her 100% in not enough for you?
Would you tell her to " f**K off too even though in her mind she's giving her all?


----------



## Zig

Caribbean Man said:


> And what do you do if every woman you choose doesn't like the " real you ", or gives you what you perceive as less whilst you give 100%?
> What do you do then?
> 
> Should you really be giving 100% expecting 100% back?
> How do you know when she's giving her 100%?
> Suppose her 100% in not enough for you?
> Would you tell her to " f**K off too even though in her mind she's giving her all?


"Giving 100%" is an expression. It means that I'll treat her how I want to be treated. Obviously, you can't assign a number to how someone treats you. I won't dump her if she does something crappy (I wouldn't want that to happen to me) but I think most people can tell when they're being taken for a ride.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Every time Adex does a new thread... I find myself so very thankful I am NOT married to that type of man.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Zig said:


> "Giving 100%" is an expression. It means that I'll treat her how I want to be treated. Obviously, you can't assign a number to how someone treats you. I won't dump her if she does something crappy (I wouldn't want that to happen to me) but I think most people can tell when they're being taken for a ride.


Intimate relationships are _never_ that simple.
If they were, we would have no need of TAM.


----------



## Zig

Caribbean Man said:


> Intimate relationships are _never_ that simple.
> If they were, we would have no need of TAM.


Exactly. That's why I said that people need to use discretion and common sense in relationships and when your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend are CHRONICALLY failing to meet your expectations you need to dump them as hard as it may be.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Zig said:


> From now on I'm going to use the Golden Rule in dating/relationships: Treat her like I want her to treat me.
> 
> I'll give 100% and expect 100%. If she can't do that or doesn't like the real me, then f**k her. I won't pretend to be someone I'm not. That's a terrible way to go through life.


In my view... the "*Authentic*" carry this very attitude... and why would anyone want less than that. 



> Exactly. That's why I said that people need to use discretion and common sense in relationships and when your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend are CHRONICALLY failing to meet your expectations you need to dump them as hard as it may be.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Zig said:


> Exactly. That's why I said that people need to use discretion and common sense in relationships and when your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend are CHRONICALLY failing to meet your expectations you need to dump them as hard as it may be.


:iagree:.but we come back to the first question.
What if no woman/ man is able to fulfil your expectations?
What do you do then? Should you adjust your expectations or just " be true to yourself " and wait for that " special someone 
" to fulfil your needs and live up to your expectations?"


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Caribbean Man said:


> Intimate relationships are _never_ that simple.
> If they were, we would have no need of TAM.


some are actually.Outside of his grief issues,SO and I have a very good relationship and I'm closer to him than I've ever been with anyone.
We both give all we have to each other and it's really THAT simple.
He trusts me not to take advantage of the fact that he's a nice guy.I trust him not to treat me the way other men treated me.I don't walk on him and he always makes me feel special.
Treating each other with kindness and respect is a way of life.There is no passive aggression and there are no games.We're a team.It isn't a competition to see who leads the relationship.

That doesn't work for all women though and I guess that's where this alpha male business comes in to play.


----------



## Caribbean Man

ScarletBegonias said:


> some are actually.Outside of his grief issues,SO and I have a very good relationship and I'm closer to him than I've ever been with anyone.
> We both give all we have to each other and it's really THAT simple.
> He trusts me not to take advantage of the fact that he's a nice guy.I trust him not to treat me the way other men treated me.I don't walk on him and he always makes me feel special.
> Treating each other with kindness and respect is a way of life.There is no passive aggression and there are no games.We're a team.It isn't a competition to see who leads the relationship.
> 
> That doesn't work for all women though and I guess that's where this alpha male business comes in to play.


My wife and I had a very complex relationship in the begining.
We come from different racial and cultural backgrounds. Things were complicated.
I put up with a lot from her because I believed in her. She had my back.
The first rule she laid down from the start was : NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE.
Very few men would ever agree to that rule , coming from my background it sounded crazy to me. But I chose to accept it because I believed in her.

Each relationship has its own dynamic , and each couple has to work their own set of rules.
There is a lot of " horse trading" or compromise behind the scenes in successful relationships.

Compatibility is what is most important, not " broscience."


----------



## Zig

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:.but we come back to the first question.
> What if no woman/ man is able to fulfil your expectations?
> What do you do then? Should you adjust your expectations or just " be true to yourself " and wait for that " special someone
> " to fulfil your needs and live up to your expectations?"


In the HIGHLY, HIGHLY unlikely situation that you can't find anyone (I've seen the ugliest people (both inside and out) find love) then yes it would be better to be alone. More often, people who can't find someone often can't do so because of a negative personality flaw that effects all aspects of their life (and not something like playing WOW).


----------



## Caribbean Man

Zig said:


> In the HIGHLY, HIGHLY unlikely situation that you can't find anyone (I've seen the ugliest people (both inside and out) find love) then yes it would be better to be alone. *More often, people who can't find someone often can't do so because of a negative personality flaw that effects all aspects of their life *(and not something like playing WOW).


*There are a whole lot of lonely , single people out here Zig!
*

However,
This statement,

"..._More often, people who can't find someone often can't do so because of a negative personality flaw that effects all aspects of their life_ ..."

Is very true. And many times people who find themselves in that sort of predicament do so because they refuse to change and work on themselves. Their attitude is;
" f*ck everybody, this is the real me, and if they don't like it well f*ck them again.."

People should to be flexible and brave enough to work on themselves and change when they are faced with such challenges.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Caribbean Man said:


> *There are a whole lot of lonely , single people out here Zig!
> *
> 
> However,
> This statement,
> 
> "..._More often, people who can't find someone often can't do so because of a negative personality flaw that effects all aspects of their life_ ..."
> 
> Is very true. And many times people who find themselves in that sort of predicament do so because they refuse to change and work on themselves. Their attitude if
> " f*ck everybody, this is the real me, and if they don't like it well f*ck them again.."
> 
> People need to be flexible and brave enough to work on themselves and change when they are faced with such challenges.


I agree with this.

the f*ck them attitude is reserved for those who KNOW they are the best person they can possibly be and have worked hard to improve themselves and have learned the art of "put yourself in your partners shoes".
LOL there's a fine line between "f*ck them,I deserve better because I am a great partner" and "f*ck them if they can't understand and deal with the fact that I'm a selfish pr*ck and I aint changing sh*t to be with them."
some people have trouble recognizing which one applies to them.


----------



## Maricha75

SimplyAmorous said:


> Every time Adex does a new thread... I find myself so very thankful I am NOT married to that type of man.


Amen, SA...AMEN!!


----------



## Caribbean Man

ScarletBegonias said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> the f*ck them attitude is reserved for those who KNOW they are the best person they can possibly be and have worked hard to improve themselves and have learned the art of "put yourself in your partners shoes".


Quite so.
That attitude is sometimes misinterpreted as arrogance , but it comes from person who has experienced all that life can throw at them, reached to the depths and resurfaced.
They _know_ themselves and are on the way to self actualization.
They can and often do " put themselves in another person's shoe " so they know exactly when , who and how to tell a partner " f*ck " you.
In relationships there is supposed to be growth. Personal growth and growth as a couple.
Again, each relationship has its own dynamics.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Quote from this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...ta-males-pedestalize-women-3.html#post1373418

*By poster " unbelievable " @ 12.37 PM post # 33*

".....T_hat's why Selfless Service is one of our 7 Army Values. It's the difference between having a duty and having a job. *What family or what company could survive if men only went to work on the days they felt respected and valued? What marriage could survive if both partners focused only or primarily on their own desires. it's a team effort and nobody gets to be the quarterback* every day_...."


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Caribbean Man said:


> What if no woman/ man is able to fulfil your expectations?
> What do you do then? Should you adjust your expectations or just " be true to yourself " and wait for that " special someone


I think for all of us, there are certain personality traits /beliefs that are more acceptable (we can love in spite of a few quirks)....over those that would have us pulling our hair out daily







.... we know or should know...what annoys us- just in conflict of who our partner IS, what makes them tick... Such red flags WILL come to haunt... causing fights and/or a slow growing resentment. 

And what makes us feel greatly loved & treasured....Better to wait and not settle...if compatibility is lacking in those very "important" areas - that are so much a part of who we are.



> *Caribbean Man said*: "...More often, people who can't find someone often can't do so because of a negative personality flaw that effects all aspects of their life ..."
> 
> Is very true. And many times people who find themselves in that sort of predicament do so because they refuse to change and work on themselves. Their attitude is;
> " f*ck everybody, this is the real me, and if they don't like it well f*ck them again.."
> 
> People should to be flexible and brave enough to work on themselves and change when they are faced with such challenges.


This is why I prefer HUMBLE people over those who feel they have "arrived"... but each of us has to know if we are being the "best" we can be. 



> * ScarletBegonias said: the f*ck them attitude is reserved for those who KNOW they are the best person they can possibly be and have worked hard to improve themselves and have learned the art of "put yourself in your partners shoes".*
> LOL there's a fine line between "f*ck them,I deserve better because I am a great partner" and "f*ck them if they can't understand and deal with the fact that I'm a selfish pr*ck and I aint changing sh*t to be with them."
> some people have trouble recognizing which one applies to them.


 Pretty much what I was trying to say.

I feel I am the Best I can be.. but it wouldn't suit many men....and I feel my husband is the BEST he can be ...but some women would clammer...he is not Alpha enough, so... yeah F**k 'em ...cause we genuinely like who we are... 

We all need to find the one that cherish's our special uniqueness- when we are being our BEST... (treating others as we want to be treated, living with integrity, respect & responsibilty).


----------



## Caribbean Man

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think for all of us, there are certain personality traits /beliefs that are more acceptable (we can love in spite of a few quirks)....over those that would have us pulling our hair out daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... we know or should know...what annoys us- just in conflict of who our partner IS, what makes them tick... Such red flags WILL come to haunt... causing fights and/or a slow growing resentment.
> 
> And what makes us feel greatly loved & treasured....Better to wait and not settle...if compatibility is lacking in those very "important" areas - that are so much a part of who we are.
> 
> 
> 
> This is why I prefer HUMBLE people over those who feel they have "arrived"... but each of us has to know if we are being the "best" we can be.
> 
> Pretty much what I was trying to say.
> 
> I feel I am the Best I can be.. but it wouldn't suit many men....and I feel my husband is the BEST he could be, but some women would clammer...he is not Alpha enough, so... yeah F**k 'em ...cause we like who we are... Find the one that cherish's our uniqueness.


In other words,
Find a partner who is compatible with you , or who you don't mind changing for.
One who can compliment your personality type.
But first people should know themselves.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

ScarletBegonias said:


> some are actually.Outside of his grief issues,SO and I have a very good relationship and I'm closer to him than I've ever been with anyone.
> We both give all we have to each other and it's really THAT simple.
> He trusts me not to take advantage of the fact that he's a nice guy.I trust him not to treat me the way other men treated me.I don't walk on him and he always makes me feel special.
> Treating each other with kindness and respect is a way of life.There is no passive aggression and there are no games.We're a team.It isn't a competition to see who leads the relationship.
> 
> That doesn't work for all women though and I guess that's where this alpha male business comes in to play.


Indeed. While I have to commend the both of you, I have to say you are the exception, not the rule. Maybe %1 of the women in the world is like your kind.


----------



## Zig

ScarletBegonias said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> the f*ck them attitude is reserved for those who KNOW they are the best person they can possibly be and have worked hard to improve themselves and have learned the art of "put yourself in your partners shoes".
> LOL there's a fine line between "f*ck them,I deserve better because I am a great partner" and "f*ck them if they can't understand and deal with the fact that I'm a selfish pr*ck and I aint changing sh*t to be with them."
> some people have trouble recognizing which one applies to them.


I am currently working on this.


----------



## Ikaika

My big problem with these rules are the source from which it came. The source provides some numerical valuation to assume that there is collected evidence to support these rules. Well, I spent some time reading through it and it appears that the only support comes from Hugo Schwyzer, professor at Pasadena College. 

So I decided, being the person I am to look for Hugo Schwyzer's peer-reviewed research to support his conclusion. Come to find out this guy does not have any peer-reviewed research on the topic. So, not sure where he gets his percentages. He wrote at least one book and it mainly focused on how to be a pick up artist, PUA. I don't object to that if this is what a guy wants to accomplish, but not sure it is a successful a recipe for a long-lasting marriage.


----------



## ScaredandUnsure

You know that sound a cat makes when it's throwing up a hairball? That's the sound I made when I read this thread.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Again,

Quoted for truth from this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...157-my-expectations-marriage-realistic-2.html

*By poster AffairCare*

On 01 - 06 - 2013 @ 2.02 PM Post # 26

".....The point of marriage is not to find the one guy who perfectly meets all your needs without effort, because that guy doesn't exist. 
*The point of marriage is that both people come into it imperfect, and whether you pick guy #1, guy #2, or guy #3 you made a commitment to that one person, and now in the marriage he will grow as a man and use his positive trait and learn how to let go of and lose the negative trait. The point of marriage is a place where the two of you can accept each other for the imperfect people you are and teach each other to be better people. Now, some personalities get along better and it's easier to understand--but even complete opposites can still choose to stay committed and learn to understand each other better. For example my first husband was an ESTJ and I'm an INFP. I had a REALLY HARD TIME understanding how he thought but it was good for me to learn how others think and feel. Now my Dear Hubby is an INTP an I "get" him a lot better...he makes more sense to me and the way I think is a lot closer to the way he thinks. We get along better! But the whole point of the thing is for me to learn things about me that I need to change and do better and do differently and grow in maturity into the woman I want to be. ..."*


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

drerio said:


> My big problem with these rules are the source from which it came. The source provides some numerical valuation to assume that there is collected evidence to support these rules. Well, I spent some time reading through it and it appears that the only support comes from Hugo Schwyzer, professor at Pasadena College.
> 
> So I decided, being the person I am to look for Hugo Schwyzer's peer-reviewed research to support his conclusion. Come to find out this guy does not have any peer-reviewed research on the topic. So, not sure where he gets his percentages. He wrote at least one book and it mainly focused on how to be a pick up artist, PUA. I don't object to that if this is what a guy wants to accomplish, but not sure it is a successful a recipe for a long-lasting marriage.


Wait a second, did you say support to these rules comes from the feminazi mangina known as Hugo Schwyzer? The guy who had an affair with his student? The guy who tried to murder his girl friend? The guy who wrote online about how he took out his 3rd(now ex) wife's tampon out when it was stuck? The guy who is now so repentant, that he bashes every male except him and everything a male does about anything as misogynistic and hateful? 

Could you please elaborate what you meant please? I am seriously dying of curiousity! Because Chateau Heartiste just today did an interesting review on him.


----------



## Gaia

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I am seeing some really man-hating crap here from some users that is baffling me.
> 
> *Not sure where there have been man hating posts as I havent seen any. This thread along with many of the OPs other threads have given odf an air of woman hating.*
> 
> Not making your woman a priority is bad? It makes the man a jerk?
> For me any man who puts his relationships and another person in front of himself is a doormat. Seriously everybody should first care for themselves and then others(abiding basic morals, of course) What is wrong with this? It is never said that bringing your woman along for the ride that is your life is a bad thing. But it is your life, nonetheless.
> 
> *I disagree with this. I believe that making ones spouse and life partner a priority is not being a doormat. Now this doesnt mean they are to be top priority but definately making them A priority is just respectful and considerate in my opinion. I dont agree with expecting a life partner to just "come along for the ride" either. After all in my opinion a life partner has equal say. *
> 
> Not acknowledging her beauty? This is a great way for not pedestalizing women. She already knows she's beautiful. She already gets attention just because she is pretty. Not acknowledging this(or just saying meh she ain't all that in your mind) allows you a real relationship without getting swept around by this.
> 
> *I disagree with this as well. I see nothing wrong in acknowledging your "life partners" beauty or attractiveness. If you think she "isnt all that" then wouldnt that be settling for less? I dont know about other women but in my mind... Sure I know I am attractive to some men but to hear my spouse say he finds me attractive and to have him show me this is all that matters in my mind. If he doesnt show me this or tell me this then I begin to think he just "settled" and I do not want to be "settled for. When it comes to me showing him I find him attractive I do not hold back. Even when I am furious with him or may be resentful for whatever reason I still love flattering him to let him know he is the most amazing man in the world to me. *
> 
> Of course a balanced amount of self confidence is the best. But seeing the CWI boards, seeing myself, it is always better to say "I am a king and I deserve the world to be my kitty litter" than to say "OMFG I'm a loser boohoo". When in doubt, go for more rather than less.
> 
> *Now I agree with the first sentence here. I believe balance is always best but too much arrogance can backfire terribly. I do agree with saying "omfg im a loser boohoo" is a bad approach and I do agree that going for more rather then less is a better approach just not too much more.*
> 
> Keeping other women on the side and deliberately making her jealous is unacceptable. But your wife/gf should subconciously understand that you are a catch and if she screws up, she can be replaced. Come on now, how many stories are here that the WW obviously doesn't think her husband can ever get with another woman, thus taking him for granted.
> 
> *I agree with this for the most part but I disagree with the being replaced part. Sure he can move on but women are not items that can be "replaced. " the same goes for men with this advice. Its best they acknowledge thier wife is a catch and if he screws up she can move on as well. Plenty of men have taken thier women for granted as well. *
> 
> Teasing, keeping her guessing are all fun things, they are done to spark up the relation of course you don't do them always, but intermittent actions do cause excitement.
> 
> *now this is ok if things like pleasant suprises, random gropes, ect are done but the issue I have with this is if the man starts playing mind games. *
> 
> I love how prejudiced people can get when they see commandments like these. If you don't have the brains to exclude any rules that don't work for you, change some stuff and included other things, how is it anybody's problem but yours?
> 
> *I have no problem with someone using what works for them but I do have a problem with the attitude that all men must abide by these "comandments" as if they are the only right and surefire way to betyer ones relationship. As I stated before "rules" like these with an air of gender hating are stupid in my opinion. I see alot of this as the equivilant to women being told that men are worthless dogs meant to be toyed with. Men respect you more if you dont put out unless he does all household chores.Never consider your mans feelings as they have none and if they
> love you they will let you do whatever the hell you want without any objection.*
> 
> And those saying that an alpha man has kindness etc. Alpha is not good, beta is not bad. They are sliding scales, they are just classifications. Any relationship between any two people have components of these by different ratios.
> 
> *Obviously everyone has thier own idea on what an alpha, beta, ect is and clearly not everyone will agree but its all good. *
> 
> Of course "natural" men and women don't get this stuff, don't need to get this stuff, because they already understand it subconciously. But I can tell you there is at least a %60 of men who don't understand attraction and relationships. For them there is "game".


----------



## Gaia

I get that not everyone understands attraction and relationships but why resort to thinking it a game? What do you mean by "natural" men and women?


----------



## Ikaika

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Wait a second, did you say support to these rules comes from the feminazi mangina known as Hugo Schwyzer? The guy who had an affair with his student? The guy who tried to murder his girl friend? The guy who wrote online about how he took out his 3rd(now ex) wife's tampon out when it was stuck? The guy who is now so repentant, that he bashes every male except him and everything a male does about anything as misogynistic and hateful?
> 
> Could you please elaborate what you meant please? I am seriously dying of curiousity! Because Chateau Heartiste just today did an interesting review on him.


I'm not sure what you want me to elaborate on... I read through CH's blog and Hugo Schwyzer shows up as quoted evidence time and again in most of the salient points made. Since CH does not provide a bibliography of his/her (unsure of gender) written work, I can only assume that Hugo Schwyzer is the main use of support. 

In my line of work, when you put up numbers, percentages, etc, you have to show where you get these from. A bibliography helps and it really helps if the bibliography list 1st hand peer-reviewed sources. 

I hope that this helps.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Gaia said:


> I get that not everyone understands attraction and relationships but why resort to thinking it a game? What do you mean by "natural" men and women?


You know that guy who has luck with the ladies, while he is just being himself? He doesn't pretend, he doesn't play mind games, he doesn't know what a sh!t test is but still passes it. He just does. He isn't a jerk, he isn't a nice guy. Hell, he may not be that handsome. He is called a "natural". 

"The game" so to speak, is a try to understanding the evolutional aspects of the dating/mating/relationship arena. It is also called "the red pill"


----------



## Gaia

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> You know that guy who has luck with the ladies, while he is just being himself? He doesn't pretend, he doesn't play mind games, he doesn't know what a sh!t test is but still passes it. He just does. He isn't a jerk, he isn't a nice guy. Hell, he may not be that handsome. He is called a "natural".
> 
> "The game" so to speak, is a try to understanding the evolutional aspects of the dating/mating/relationship arena. It is also called "the red pill"


Ah ok. Thanks for clarifying. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Enchanted

ScaredandUnsure said:


> You know that sound a cat makes when it's throwing up a hairball? That's the sound I made when I read this thread.


This is probably the most insightful post on this thread.


----------



## *LittleDeer*

The opening post is funneh.

I love strong men, who take charge, and know how to really treat a woman.

This is dribble, for incompetent men. 

Any man who has treated me in such a manner, i have dumped and moved on from, because they were seriously lacking.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

A man like that might make a good f*ck a few times and fun to see him in operation with all his rules but then it gets boooooooring because the formula is too easy to see and the woman can feel without much thought put into it that she is on the receiving end of a formula rather than being interacted with personally and uniquely. There is a distinct difference between the art of f*cking a woman until she falls apart and the art of making love to a woman. I won't disagree that the f*ck is not a good thing but most woman want a personal experience, whether they are with you exclusively or not. If you're giving them what you give everyone else in terms of treatment across the board not just in bed, the whole thing is just so, well, formulated and boring and dull and as a result inconsequential. She could interact with a computer for the conversation, and use a dildo to simulate the sex experience! This is why you have to have a couple kitties in the wings. Unlike a good Shakespeare play, which can be seen over and over and enjoyed a different way each time, yours is a boring one-act play. It will get you f*cked and you will feel successful because your formula 'works' to keep you supplied, and if that's what works for you no judgement here. Just don't fool yourself that women are going to fall for it long term. They'll take you for a ride for a few times just out of curiosity and something different and then move on. Ultimately a woman with a life will resent having to do that much work aside from her passions in life (never make the man your passion and goal in life, make him your friend!) and she will drop him as soon as he has shown his true colors (which doesn't take long...the formulaic texts in terms of content, length and timing are a dead giveaway.) Nobody likes being serviced just to remain on the rolls.


----------



## Adex

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I am seeing some really man-hating crap here from some users that is baffling me.
> 
> Not making your woman a priority is bad? It makes the man a jerk?
> For me any man who puts his relationships and another person in front of himself is a doormat. Seriously everybody should first care for themselves and then others(abiding basic morals, of course) What is wrong with this? It is never said that bringing your woman along for the ride that is your life is a bad thing. But it is your life, nonetheless.
> 
> Not acknowledging her beauty? This is a great way for not pedestalizing women. She already knows she's beautiful. She already gets attention just because she is pretty. Not acknowledging this(or just saying meh she ain't all that in your mind) allows you a real relationship without getting swept around by this.
> 
> Of course a balanced amount of self confidence is the best. But seeing the CWI boards, seeing myself, it is always better to say "I am a king and I deserve the world to be my kitty litter" than to say "OMFG I'm a loser boohoo". When in doubt, go for more rather than less.
> 
> Keeping other women on the side and deliberately making her jealous is unacceptable. But your wife/gf should subconciously understand that you are a catch and if she screws up, she can be replaced. Come on now, how many stories are here that the WW obviously doesn't think her husband can ever get with another woman, thus taking him for granted.
> 
> Teasing, keeping her guessing are all fun things, they are done to spark up the relation of course you don't do them always, but intermittent actions do cause excitement.
> 
> I love how prejudiced people can get when they see commandments like these. If you don't have the brains to exclude any rules that don't work for you, change some stuff and included other things, how is it anybody's problem but yours?
> 
> And those saying that an alpha man has kindness etc. Alpha is not good, beta is not bad. They are sliding scales, they are just classifications. Any relationship between any two people have components of these by different ratios.
> 
> Of course "natural" men and women don't get this stuff, don't need to get this stuff, because they already understand it subconciously. But I can tell you there is at least a %60 of men who don't understand attraction and relationships. For them there is "game".


Nice. Someone that actually sees the validity in the rules. Yes I do believe them. It's fine if others don't. I don't think all apply to a marriage, but most do. I haven't had a chance to read through all the comments to respond, but I'm glad there are some like minded people that realize the value in it.


----------



## RayRay88

Some of this is complete and utter bs that is horrible advice. And the other half actually makes sense meaning it is good advice.... just sayin


----------



## Pandakiss

certain parts maybe kinda sorta make sense....but the part about on purpose flirting, and allowing ones self to be chatted up plus keeping one in the cut, thats dread game....NOTHING alpha about that.

the list sounds great if you were dating, but in a marriage, a lot of those things have to factor in with love languages. if your wifes LL was words of affrimation, then only sending two text for every three isnt going to work.

in a unit, you both have to speak as close to each others love languages...mine is touch. in public, my husband will tease me with going for a touch and then he dosent, BUT if he was purposely not touching at all...we would have a major problem.

once you start playing the touch me first, then i touch you one time, "counting" game, and the one up manship..you have already lost.

communication and boundries are key...you play, tease, flirt with your spouse. thats the way to keep them interested, thats how you keep them chasing you, and loving you.


----------



## Monet19

What if the tables were turned? Would it make for a lasting relationship?

Truth is a little alpha is sexy, too much is not. 

Keeping other women on the side, if you are married or in a serious relationship is not sexy. I would react this way: What is good for the gander is then good for the goose...then how can it ever be a serious relationship if either of you 'keep others on the side'? 

Always turn it around and see if you'd like to be treated the same way, that will pretty much tell you " I'm ok to go ahead, or this is too much".


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Monet19 said:


> What if the tables were turned? Would it make for a lasting relationship?
> 
> Truth is a little alpha is sexy, too much is not.


Tbh, men are already too inclined to take the " Beta Slave-White Knight" route in a relationship. There are few man who can actually dish out too much alpha.

But I agree with you: being %100 alpha would mean you have narcissistic and anti-social personality disorder combined. But come to think of it Christian Grey is this guy and women love him:rofl:


----------



## johnnycomelately

Monet19 said:


> Truth is a little alpha is sexy, too much is not.


The problem is that if you are trying to be something you are not you end up looking like a teenager smoking to look more grown up. Ridiculous and stupid.


----------



## RandomDude

johnnycomelately said:


> The problem is that if you are trying to be something you are not you end up looking like a teenager smoking to look more grown up. Ridiculous and stupid.


Not always the case 

E.G.
For someone who already has the reputation of being a douche, playing the "nice guy" helps break the ice wall and is generally more "acceptable behaviour". For someone who already has the reputation of being a nice guy however, acting like a douche has simply hilarious results! Hehe

And this is the road alot of nice guys take when they try the "180" I guess, especially if they follow the bitter attitudes on the authors of the site Adex seems to frequent. Manning up doesn't have to mean giving up your "beta" attributes.


----------



## Caribbean Man

johnnycomelately said:


> The problem is that if you are trying to be something you are not you end up looking like a teenager smoking to look more grown up. Ridiculous and stupid.


Soooooo, is the converse of this also true?
What if you are naturally too " Alpha" and you decide that you need to soften a little bit and try adding more " Beta " qualities like caring , nurturing etc.

Would that equate " trying to be something that you are not," and would you also " end up looking like a teenager smoking to look more grown up?"

I'm just trying to follow you * logic * Johnny.


----------



## RandomDude

Haha, beat you to it CM lol


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

RandomDude said:


> Manning up doesn't have to mean giving up your "beta" attributes.


Unfortunately, it is. And it should be. You cannot be caring and nurturing when you are doing a 180 from a WS.


----------



## Enchanted

Adex said:


> Nice. Someone that actually sees the validity in the rules. Yes I do believe them. It's fine if others don't. I don't think all apply to a marriage, but most do. I haven't had a chance to read through all the comments to respond, but I'm glad there are some like minded people that realize the value in it.


I have to thank you for this thread. It's entertaining and let's me think about things that have nothing to do with the real world.


----------



## RandomDude

@Shadow

But nor does one have to be an a$$ about it. You see, with children, you have to be firm at times yes? Enforce boundaries, but does that mean that one has to be uncaring and non-nurturing to do that?


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

RandomDude said:


> @Shadow
> 
> But nor does one have to be an a$$ about it. You see, with children, you have to be firm at times yes? Enforce boundaries, but does that mean that one has to be uncaring and non-nurturing to do that?


Just like hate isn't exactly the opposite of love, being a jerk isn't the true healthy opposite of being a doormat beta-slave. That's like saying the opposite of being crazy is being crazy.

The opposite of having an emotion is not having an emotion(indifference). So, the opposite of not having boundaries and no self respect is not having no respect for anybody else and being destructive. It's having healthy boundaries and respecting one's self.


----------



## johnnycomelately

RandomDude said:


> Not always the case
> 
> E.G.
> For someone who already has the reputation of being a douche, playing the "nice guy" helps break the ice wall and is generally more "acceptable behaviour". For someone who already has the reputation of being a nice guy however, acting like a douche has simply hilarious results! Hehe
> 
> And this is the road alot of nice guys take when they try the "180" I guess, especially if they follow the bitter attitudes on the authors of the site Adex seems to frequent. Manning up doesn't have to mean giving up your "beta" attributes.


I disagree. 'Playing' at anything is almost always transparent. If you come across as affected it is deeply unattractive, whatever traits you are pretending to possess.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

johnnycomelately said:


> I disagree. 'Playing' at anything is almost always transparent. If you come across as affected it is deeply unattractive, whatever traits you are pretending to possess.


Well, tbh there is a truth to the saying "fake it until you make it". I've read a study that shows a good confident posture heightens your testosterone and lowers your cortisol. So yeah, your actions if they are done with a consistency and will, change your brain and body chemistry, thus in time you will be doing those actions naturally.


----------



## Caribbean Man

johnnycomelately said:


> I disagree. 'Playing' at anything is almost always transparent. If you come across as affected it is deeply unattractive, whatever traits you are pretending to possess.


Really?
We are all just PLAYERS in this game. Everybody wears a different persona or "mask" to suit their intent of manipulation. We are all very good at it.

Who said that doing a 180 is equivalent to " playing?"
I think RandomDude just used the term " playing " loosely.

If you are normally an easy going person and people walk all over you. You decide to stop facilitating or enabling their bad behaviour towards you.
Is that " playing something that you are not " in your opinion?

I'm struggling with you logic Johnnie.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Well, tbh there is a truth to the saying "fake it until you make it". I've read a study that shows a good confident posture heightens your testosterone and lowers your cortisol. So yeah, your actions if they are done with a consistency and will, change your brain and body chemistry, thus in time you will be doing those actions naturally.


And as far as I remember that is how the brain operates.

Even if the stupid teenager who " smokes a cigarette in order to look grown up " does it often enough and convinces himself , pretty soon he'll graduate to bigger things . He might start shoplifting , breaking classes , doing drugs. He then becomes a delinquent.
If a person could adopt negative traits and become " bad." why cant a person adopt positive traits that would sharpen his personality and improve his interpersonal relationships?

I think that a lot of the flack thrown at this stuff is based on pettiness and a gross misunderstanding of the dynamics of it.


----------



## Thundarr

johnnycomelately said:


> I disagree. 'Playing' at anything is almost always transparent. If you come across as affected it is deeply unattractive, whatever traits you are pretending to possess.


Sometimes it's merely breaking bad habits that were learned. Having self respect, setting boundaries, and not being a doormat are our mantras here on TAM. Learning different ways to think or act not playing.


----------



## johnnycomelately

Thundarr said:


> Sometimes it's merely breaking bad habits that were learned. Having self respect, setting boundaries, and not being a doormat are our mantras here on TAM. Learning different ways to think or act not playing.


I totally agree with that. It is this "Ten Steps To Being Alpha" sort of stuff I don't like. It is contrived and will be very obvious and very hard to keep up over the long term. Self-respect means to have respect for your SELF, not some imaginary alpha male you think you can turn into.


----------



## Caribbean Man

johnnycomelately said:


> I totally agree with that. It is this "Ten Steps To Being Alpha" sort of stuff I don't like. It is contrived and will be very obvious and very hard to keep up over the long term. Self-respect means to have respect for your SELF, not some imaginary alpha male you think you can turn into.


There is no " ten steps to being Alpha" it does not exist.


I have never read here on TAM or on any website , of any 10 steps or be like " Clark Kent he's the ultimate Alpha."

I have read many self help book that promote becoming a better person , asserting oneself , maintaining self respect etc, both for MALE and FEMALE.

And I have seen both MALE and FEMALE versions promoted right here on TAM.

Its quite passing strange that people only have objection to the MALE version.

Frankly speaking , I don't understand this paranoid , morbid ,delusional fear and hatred for anything that speaks of a man asserting himself in a dysfunctional relationship.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman becoming an Alpha bytch for her husband who treats her like a doormat , in fact, I have suggested it many times here.

So they why is it so * contrived * for a man to adopt Alpha traits for himself in response to a woman who's treating him like a cuckold and a doormat?

Maybe some guys just like the idea of being a cuckold?


----------



## Cosmos

Caribbean Man said:


> There is no " ten steps to being Alpha" it does not exist.
> 
> 
> I have never read here on TAM or on any website , of any 10 steps or be like " Clark Kent he's the ultimate Alpha."
> 
> I have read many self help book that promote becoming a better person , asserting oneself , maintaining self respect etc, both for MALE and FEMALE.
> 
> And I have seen both MALE and FEMALE versions promoted right here on TAM.
> 
> Its quite passing strange that people only have objection to the MALE version.
> 
> Frankly speaking , I don't understand this paranoid , morbid ,delusional fear and hatred for anything that speaks of a man asserting himself in a dysfunctional relationship.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman becoming an Alpha bytch for her husband who treats her like a doormat , in fact, I have suggested it many times here.
> 
> So they why is it so * contrived * for a man to adopt Alpha traits for himself in response to a woman who's treating him like a cuckold and a doormat?
> 
> Maybe some guys just like the idea of being a cuckold?


There's nothing wrong with it, CM. I think it's just the original post that turns the whole exercise into a bit of a joke.

No one, man or woman, should allow themselves to be treated badly or like a doormat.


----------



## MeditMike80

This is actually beta-wannabe-alpha behavior. Being an alpha isn't about being an *******, which is what this advice turns you into.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## johnnycomelately

Caribbean Man said:


> There is no " ten steps to being Alpha" it does not exist.
> 
> 
> I have never read here on TAM or on any website , of any 10 steps or be like " Clark Kent he's the ultimate Alpha."
> 
> I have read many self help book that promote becoming a better person , asserting oneself , maintaining self respect etc, both for MALE and FEMALE.
> 
> And I have seen both MALE and FEMALE versions promoted right here on TAM.
> 
> Its quite passing strange that people only have objection to the MALE version.
> 
> Frankly speaking , I don't understand this paranoid , morbid ,delusional fear and hatred for anything that speaks of a man asserting himself in a dysfunctional relationship.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman becoming an Alpha bytch for her husband who treats her like a doormat , in fact, I have suggested it many times here.
> 
> So they why is it so * contrived * for a man to adopt Alpha traits for himself in response to a woman who's treating him like a cuckold and a doormat?
> 
> Maybe some guys just like the idea of being a cuckold?


Nice try CM. The problem you have is that I am far too alpha to rise to your bait.

I read an article once about the most common regrets expressed by people who knew they were dying. This was the most common one:

_I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me._

If you don't have the balls to be who you are your life is worth nothing. Trying to be what you are not for the sake of others is pathetic, whether you are male or female, and it will never bring you happiness.

Here is the article:

Bronnie Ware: Top 5 Regrets of the Dying

You can pretend that anyone who doesn't believe in the clap trap posted by the OP is against 'men asserting themselves', but you are wrong. That is a total non sequitur. Being a real man has nothing to do with being somebody else's idea of a real man. That is truly omega male thinking.


----------



## Caribbean Man

johnnycomelately said:


> Nice try CM. *The problem you have is that I am far too alpha to rise to your bait.*
> .


^^^^^^:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I think you've just fallen for it!

After spending the last two days denouncing anything remotely sounding like " Alpha " you now crown yourself
" king of the Alphas ":rofl:

Thanks for the laugh Johnny!
BTW. You and Adex are " _way too Alpha_!":rofl:
Ha ha!
You on one extreme, he's on the other.

Let me tell you a little secret.

The key to understanding life is called;

* balance* Yin & Yang , Black & White.
In everything, always avoid extreme positions and posturing, seek 
*balance*.




Goodbye Johnny!


----------



## Enchanted

Caribbean Man said:


> ^^^^^^:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> I think you've just fallen for it!
> 
> After spending the last two days denouncing anything remotely sounding like " Alpha " you now crown yourself
> " king of the Alphas ":rofl:
> 
> Thanks for the laugh Johnny!
> BTW. You and Adex are " _way too Alpha_!":rofl:
> Ha ha!
> You on one extreme, he's on the other.
> 
> Let me tell you a little secret.
> 
> The key to understanding life is called;
> 
> * balance* Yin & Yang , Black & White.
> In everything, always avoid extreme positions and posturing, seek
> *balance*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Goodbye Johnny!


I think we all need to get better hobbies.


----------



## johnnycomelately

Caribbean Man said:


> ^^^^^^:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> I think you've just fallen for it!
> 
> After spending the last two days denouncing anything remotely sounding like " Alpha " you now crown yourself
> " king of the Alphas ":rofl:
> 
> Thanks for the laugh Johnny!
> BTW. You and Adex are " _way too Alpha_!":rofl:
> Ha ha!
> You on one extreme, he's on the other.
> 
> Let me tell you a little secret.
> 
> The key to understanding life is called;
> 
> * balance* Yin & Yang , Black & White.
> In everything, always avoid extreme positions and posturing, seek
> *balance*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Goodbye Johnny!


Goodbye CM.


----------



## Pandakiss

to me its not about following some script, its about doing you, and being comfortable with who you are. if you do some soul searching, and discover you are beta, so what own it.

you have to love and accept you. there is no reading it in some list of do's and donts, this or that. once you know who you are, what you want out of life, what you like/hate, need/dont need, your happiness, when you have love of self, and self respect.

you teach others how to treat you, you start doing things against you true nature, and true self, it comes off as phony, and fake. if you dont want people to walk all over you, dont let them. stand up for yourself, but be yourself.

you have to be the person you know and love, someone worth loving, someone worth respecting, changing you as a person isnt the way it works, and you must be able to look YOU in the mirror everyday and live with what ever changes you decide.



i wanted to add this to my other post:

i agree with not telling your--underlined and bolded] wife she is beautiful....show it. everyday. talk is cheap, it actions that speak the loudest. and jealousy has to come natural....such as....

{this is something my husband does, its "game", but the fun thing about game, it still works when both people know it....}

we will be out, and i will notice a hot chick, checking him out, i point her out, my husband and he will look at her...not gawk-stare-drool-dice roll-do the "putting" on lotion--but just look, tip his head to one side, shrug 1 shoulder and say "meh"....i guess. he turns fully to me, and dosent look in that direction, and all his attention is on me, and not in that looking deep into my eyes longingly either, but all in body language.

we both know this chick is hot...it could be charlize theron, jessica nyx, or anne hathaway.....his response would be the same. followed by actions of squeezing me and telling me how much he is into me and how special i am.

we both know that chick was really hot, but it dosent matter if we both know it, he made me feel special, and i know it isnt a line, or a lie. it dosent come off as cheesy or preset up to run of a script. its attention that wasnt sought after, it happens in regular life. the attraction from the opposite sex must not be looked for or "made" to happen.

a note fellas, if you dress nice, and walk tall, women will look...if you dress nice and walk tall with your chick who is also dressed nice, they will look longer, thus you havent done anything wrong...unless you are giving them the eye back.


----------



## Thundarr

Couple of nice posts Panda.


----------



## RandomDude

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Just like hate isn't exactly the opposite of love, being a jerk isn't the true healthy opposite of being a doormat beta-slave. That's like saying the opposite of being crazy is being crazy.
> 
> The opposite of having an emotion is not having an emotion(indifference). So, the opposite of not having boundaries and no self respect is not having no respect for anybody else and being destructive. It's having healthy boundaries and respecting one's self.


Well I don't know, because I was very indifferent during "that night" with my wife. Sure, I successfully established boundaries, but it still led to seperation and even though sure - we needed to seperate, and that she still came back to me wanting us to work on our marriage...

But I don't know, I was an a$$ during that night. And I'm not proud of it, I was TOO indifferent. She was on her knees and I was STILL indifferent. I could have handled it ALOT better.


----------



## 45188

*Eye roll* I can do better than a guy like this. Apparently Alpha males are just little boys who throw temper tantrums to get their own ways. Want a girl insecure? Fine. Itll make her unhappy. Keep in mind boys, alpha females will drop your ass in a quick swoop and move on to the betas. Beta Males are where its at.


----------



## sinnister

I am a complete "beta" nice guy it seems. I do have a terrible issue with a sexless marriage. But I also have 2 daughters, and if a guy treated either of them with these rules I'd put my abnormally large fists to work.


----------



## Rags

Why do people keep fixing on on-or-the-other?? Grief!

All men (and presumably women) have a mix of traits, and both are important.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

THe title of this thread, as well as others from this OP, should simply be "How to be an A$$hole"....same drivel as usual. There ARE NO HARD AND FAST RULES to any relationships, get over it. Why are is this alpha crap constantly being shoved in our faces?


----------



## pidge70

I find it hysterical that a* man *wrote an article on what *women* want. Hell, I am a *woman *and I don't even know what I want half the damn time.


----------



## yellowledbet

pidge70 said:


> I find it hysterical that a* man *wrote an article on what *women* want. *Hell, I am a woman and I don't even know what I want half the damn time.*


That is why a man had to write it. :rofl: :runs and hides:


----------



## pidge70

yellowledbet said:


> That is why a man had to write it. :rofl: :runs and hides:


----------



## Thundarr

pidge70 said:


> I find it hysterical that a* man *wrote an article on what *women* want. Hell, I am a *woman *and I don't even know what I want half the damn time.


Well if the proof is in the pudding then only a man could prove if his theories succeed or fail.


----------



## pidge70

Thundarr said:


> Well if the proof is in the pudding then only a man could prove if his theories succeed or fail.


True enough but, that drivel will not work on all women all the time.


----------



## OrganizedChaos

My roommate seems to follow these rules exactly, plus he has the looks to make most women stupid on sight. 

Its disgusting what women will put up with for his attention, they don't care he sleep with several women a week, puts them down, doesn't make them a priority, or anything most women say they actually want from a man. 

I just think most are afraid to admit that this attitude works, that women really do want this guy. I should know, I get to observe this on a regular basis. I've been this guys wingman for literally two years, not once can I remember myself being approached first.


----------



## Thundarr

OrganizedChaos said:


> My roommate seems to follow these rules exactly, plus he has the looks to make most women stupid on sight.
> 
> Its disgusting what women will put up with for his attention, they don't care he sleep with several women a week, puts them down, doesn't make them a priority,* or anything most women say they actually want from a man*.
> 
> I just think most are afraid to admit that this attitude works, that women really do want this guy. I should know, I get to observe this on a regular basis. I've been this guys wingman for literally two years, not once can I remember myself being approached first.


Referring to the girls you've observed, I suspect it's not what they wanted so much as what they were attracted to. (That's not double talk ). Meaning they didn't want to be attracted to him but they were anyway.


----------



## Amplexor

I mean don't just walk in. You move across the room. And you don't talk to her. You use your face. You use your body. You use everything. That's what I do. I mean I just send out this vibe and I have personally found that women do respond. I mean, something happens. That's the attitude. The attitude dictates that you don't care whether she comes, stays, lays, or prays. I mean whatever happens, your toes are still tappin'. Now when you got that, then you have the attitude. 

-Mike Damone


----------



## Monet19

OrganizedChaos said:


> My roommate seems to follow these rules exactly, plus he has the looks to make most women stupid on sight.
> 
> Its disgusting what women will put up with for his attention, they don't care he sleep with several women a week, puts them down, doesn't make them a priority, or anything most women say they actually want from a man.
> 
> I just think most are afraid to admit that this attitude works, that women really do want this guy. I should know, I get to observe this on a regular basis. I've been this guys wingman for literally two years, not once can I remember myself being approached first.


Aaah yes, but wait and see which one of you is able to have a long term relationship and which one isn't...I'm guessing you (the guy who knows how to treat women) will find love sooner


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Monet19 said:


> Aaah yes, but wait and see which one of you is able to have a long term relationship and which one isn't...I'm guessing you (the guy who knows how to treat women) will find love sooner


Lol, that's just crazy talk, who wants a LTR with a chick?:nono:


----------



## johnnycomelately

OrganizedChaos said:


> My roommate seems to follow these rules exactly, plus he has the looks to make most women stupid on sight.
> 
> Its disgusting what women will put up with for his attention, they don't care he sleep with several women a week, puts them down, doesn't make them a priority, or anything most women say they actually want from a man.
> 
> I just think most are afraid to admit that this attitude works, that women really do want this guy. I should know, I get to observe this on a regular basis. I've been this guys wingman for literally two years, not once can I remember myself being approached first.


It may work if you are six feet two, strong-jawed and oozing testosterone. It won't work if you are a 'beta' trying to be an 'alpha'. Beta guys develop interesting personalities, kindness and listening skills to compensate for not being studs. Take away those positive characteristics and you are still a beta, just one without anything positive to offer.


----------



## OrganizedChaos

johnnycomelately said:


> It may work if you are six feet two, strong-jawed and oozing testosterone. It won't work if you are a 'beta' trying to be an 'alpha'. Beta guys develop interesting personalities, kindness and listening skills to compensate for not being studs. Take away those positive characteristics and you are still a beta, just one without anything positive to offer.


I'm 6'3 210lbs, and not all of my build is fat. 

The problem is the initial contact is completely visual, a woman judges you only based on what you look like and will determine right away if she will give you the time to get to know your personality. 

The problem for average guys is getting that window of time, we may have the best personality in the world but its harder to find someone to share it with, because if there are 10 guys and 10 girl in a bar, all 10 of those girls will be going after the hottest three guys. And would rather go home alone then to 'settle' for your above average personality.


----------



## OrganizedChaos

Monet19 said:


> Aaah yes, but wait and see which one of you is able to have a long term relationship and which one isn't...I'm guessing you (the guy who knows how to treat women) will find love sooner


Well I hope so but I doubt it, the law of averages states that he will eventually stumble onto someone before I figure out how I fix my confidence issues. 

I don't think he will ever find a meaningful relationship, he has been babied his entire life. Never had to work hard, lives of his dads money, women have always cooked, cleaned, done his laundry for him. Bought him things when he needed them. He recently had a baby, and I tried to figure out what he would really want to settle down. 

I narrowed it down to the baby's mother, and the girl he's seeing right now. The first thing he brings up in both is sex, the babys mom sex feels meaningful and I like her ass better. But the other one will basically do anything I ask her too. Which is where I gave up, his life revolves around sex, not emotional connection but how much his penis enjoys being in a hole. 

I need to move out of this house lol.


----------



## johnnycomelately

OrganizedChaos said:


> I'm 6'3 210lbs, and not all of my build is fat.
> 
> The problem is the initial contact is completely visual, a woman judges you only based on what you look like and will determine right away if she will give you the time to get to know your personality.
> 
> The problem for average guys is getting that window of time, we may have the best personality in the world but its harder to find someone to share it with, because if there are 10 guys and 10 girl in a bar, all 10 of those girls will be going after the hottest three guys. And would rather go home alone then to 'settle' for your above average personality.


Beta guys get into relationships. It happens all the time.


----------



## OrganizedChaos

johnnycomelately said:


> Beta guys get into relationships. It happens all the time.


Yep, and then a lot of us end up here a few years later. 

Damn alphas.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

OrganizedChaos said:


> Yep, and then a lot of us end up here a few years later.
> 
> Damn alphas.


Haha LOL:rofl:

Look, just try consistently being alpha for a time period. After that period you'll notice some behavioral and physical changes: the way you talk, the way you walk etc.

There is no such thing as being "a beta who is acting alpha". If you can fake it for a time period consistently, you will be able to make it. This has been proven scientifially with hormone changes. (I gave an example to this about a research that basically states this, but I'm too lazy to find it, go dig it out yourself lol)


----------



## Thundarr

johnnycomelately said:


> It may work if you are six feet two, strong-jawed and oozing testosterone. It won't work if you are a 'beta' trying to be an 'alpha'. Beta guys develop interesting personalities, kindness and listening skills to compensate for not being studs. Take away those positive characteristics and you are still a beta, just one without anything positive to offer.


Actually OrganizedChaos may end up the perfect hybrid. A beta-ish (asumption) guy who has the benefit of seeing and therefore knowing what normally only alphas know.


----------



## OrganizedChaos

Thundarr said:


> Actually OrganizedChaos may end up the perfect hybrid. A beta-ish (asumption) guy who has the benefit of seeing and therefore knowing what normally only alphas know.


I'm just the wingman, I'm not sure I understand him any more then anyone else. 

We've all had 'that guy' as a roommate at one point in our life.


----------



## johnnycomelately

OrganizedChaos said:


> Yep, and then a lot of us end up here a few years later.
> 
> Damn alphas.


Alphas get cheated on too. Powerful politicians, generals, sports stars, movie stars and rich businessmen get cheated on too. 

This simplistic, binary, alpha/beta world view is a handicap. It is a model, a flawed one like all models, that helps us to understand human attraction, it is not some unbreakable universal law.


----------



## OrganizedChaos

johnnycomelately said:


> Alphas get cheated on too. Powerful politicians, generals, sports stars, movie stars and rich businessmen get cheated on too.
> 
> This simplistic, binary, alpha/beta world view is a handicap. It is a model, a flawed one like all models, that helps us to understand human attraction, it is not some unbreakable universal law.


Well I would have to argue that not all Sports figures, politicians, and businessmen are alphas. Not all of these people are extroverted and dominant personalities. Especially in the business world, if your in pure sales yes there is an element of dominance needed to close and lead ideas in a direction you need to go.

But I doubt anyone looking at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs back in the day would call them alphas, just brilliant minds with the right idea at the right point in time.


----------



## Monet19

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Lol, that's just crazy talk, who wants a LTR with a chick?:nono:


You must be looking forward to being old and lonely then:scratchhead:


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Monet19 said:


> You must be looking forward to being old and lonely then:scratchhead:


Nah, technology will overcome difficulties. Virtual reality girls await me when I'm old. :smthumbup:

Get a sense of humour, guy. I'm kidding.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

> The problem is the initial contact is completely visual, a woman judges you only based on what you look like and will determine right away if she will give you the time to get to know your personality.
> 
> The problem for average guys is getting that window of time, we may have the best personality in the world but its harder to find someone to share it with, because if there are 10 guys and 10 girl in a bar, all 10 of those girls will be going after the hottest three guys. And would rather go home alone then to 'settle' for your above average personality.


Whew! SO GLAD this doesn't happen to us women. Because when there are 10 of us girls and 10 guys in a bar those 10 guys are SO WILLING to give average- and below-average looking women a fair shake. I mean, these women have got above-average personalities, right?


----------



## Thundarr

ahhhhh...so dissapointed in myself. an hour or so ago I slid beside my wife on the couch and grabbed foot and proceeded to massage it. I clearly violated some alpha rule. I'm just gonna have to tell her she's ugly or something later to make up for it.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Maybe you could demand a BJ, then when she's done, tell her....NOTHING.


.


----------



## Trenton

Thundarr said:


> ahhhhh...so dissapointed in myself. an hour or so ago I slid beside my wife on the couch and grabbed foot and proceeded to massage it. I clearly violated some alpha rule. I'm just gonna have to tell her she's ugly or something later to make up for it.


After recognizing your mistake you should have pinched her pinky toe hard and said, "This little piggy is gonna get none."


----------



## Enchanted

Thundarr said:


> ahhhhh...so dissapointed in myself. an hour or so ago I slid beside my wife on the couch and grabbed foot and proceeded to massage it. I clearly violated some alpha rule. I'm just gonna have to tell her she's ugly or something later to make up for it.


LOL!


----------



## Cosmos

Thundarr said:


> ahhhhh...so dissapointed in myself. an hour or so ago I slid beside my wife on the couch and grabbed foot and proceeded to massage it. I clearly violated some alpha rule. I'm just gonna have to tell her she's ugly or something later to make up for it.


Time to man up, Thundarr. This simply won't do!


----------



## Caribbean Man

Cosmos said:


> Time to man up, Thundarr. This simply won't do!


:iagree::rofl:

My goodness!


----------



## T&T

OrganizedChaos said:


> My roommate seems to follow these rules exactly, plus he has the looks to make most women stupid on sight.
> 
> Its disgusting what women will put up with for his attention, they don't care he sleep with several women a week, puts them down, doesn't make them a priority, or anything most women say they actually want from a man.
> 
> I just think most are afraid to admit that this attitude works, that women really do want this guy. I should know, I get to observe this on a regular basis. I've been this guys wingman for literally two years, not once can I remember myself being approached first.


I have an old buddy that is just like that. I used to call him a chic magnet when I was younger. Now that I'm older, I use the word pathetic. He tossed away a perfectly wonderful fiance because he couldn't keep it in his pants. What she saw in him, I have no idea... He 50ish now and still alone. Well, I'm sure he's still getting lots of one night stands. lol Pathetic...


----------



## Cosmos

Yesterday my SO took time out of his busy schedule to install a new blind in my bedroom, re-arrange my office area and in the evening brought me a chocolate rose. Then this morning he came over and made breakfast for us. What a turn off! No more sex for Mr C... I can't respect a man who makes me feel like a goddess and makes me walk around all day with a permanent smile on my face


----------



## Amplexor

"Hey sweet-cakes, how'bout you shimmy on down to the break room and bring Amp a coffee. Make sure it's hot, just like you!!! What, sure, I guess. Just were is this "HR" office???"


----------



## johnnycomelately

Cosmos said:


> Yesterday my SO took time out of his busy schedule to install a new blind in my bedroom, re-arrange my office area and in the evening brought me a chocolate rose. Then this morning he came over and made breakfast for us. What a turn off! No more sex for Mr C... I can't respect a man who makes me feel like a goddess and makes me walk around all day with a permanent smile on my face


You are lying! We all know you would rather he had called you a b¡tch, farted and left. That is what a real man would have done.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

johnnycomelately said:


> You are lying! We all know you would rather he had called you a b¡tch, farted and left. That is what a real man would have done.


*breathless* where's the chaise lounge when I need to faint from the deliciousness of that manly description?


----------



## Enchanted

johnnycomelately said:


> You are lying! We all know you would rather he had called you a b¡tch, farted and left. That is what a real man would have done.


LOL

Yes, there's nothing more arousing than the smell of Sh!t. 

(I'm so glad I don't believe in Alpha males.)


----------



## Monet19

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Nah, technology will overcome difficulties. Virtual reality girls await me when I'm old. :smthumbup:
> 
> Get a sense of humour, guy. I'm kidding.


Well in that case: Hahahaha!


----------



## Monet19

OrganizedChaos said:


> I'm 6'3 210lbs, and not all of my build is fat.
> 
> The problem is the initial contact is completely visual, a woman judges you only based on what you look like and will determine right away if she will give you the time to get to know your personality.
> 
> The problem for average guys is getting that window of time, we may have the best personality in the world but its harder to find someone to share it with, because if there are 10 guys and 10 girl in a bar, all 10 of those girls will be going after the hottest three guys. And would rather go home alone then to 'settle' for your above average personality.


I wouldn't. I've been told I'm good looking and have been hit on by those kind of guys, I take great pleasure in ignoring them. A man who acts like he's God's gift to women is a complete turn off to me, I also already know he's been around the block if you know what I mean and that I'd be just another notch in his belt. I find those type of men arrogant and would rather get to know the quiet confident type sitting behind him. I'm sure there are other women like me out there. Just like I'm sure there are guys out there who would rather get to know the unassuming sexy chick who can have an intelligent conversation, rather than the drop dead bombshell airhead with the squeaky voice and perky tits. 

The type of guy who attracts me is I believe, more alpha, than the self assured ****y Brad Pitt who's all show and no go


----------



## MEM2020

These are bar tactics, not rules for a good marriage.




Adex said:


> Follow the below, and your relationship will improve.
> 
> The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon « Chateau Heartiste
> 
> "I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first
> 
> Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.
> 
> II. Make her jealous
> 
> Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.
> 
> III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
> 
> Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.
> 
> IV. Don’t play by her rules
> 
> If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
> 
> V. Adhere to the golden ratio
> 
> Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.
> 
> VI. Keep her guessing
> 
> True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.
> 
> VII. Always keep two in the kitty
> 
> Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.
> 
> VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
> 
> Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.
> 
> IX. Connect with her emotions
> 
> Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.
> 
> X. Ignore her beauty
> 
> The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t ****ing. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.
> 
> XI. Be irrationally self-confident
> 
> No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more ***** than rational defeatism.
> 
> XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
> 
> In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.
> 
> XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
> 
> Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an *******, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate ******* beats being a polite beta, every time.
> 
> XIV. **** her good
> 
> **** her like it’s your last ****. And hers. **** her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.
> 
> XV. Maintain your state control
> 
> You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, **** tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.
> 
> XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
> 
> You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her."


----------



## Gaia

Some of us prefer and love men with brains vs giant oafs that laugh like morons and pull every stunt from the jackass movies.


----------



## Cosmos

johnnycomelately said:


> You are lying! We all know you would rather he had called you a b¡tch, farted and left. That is what a real man would have done.


Perhaps that's going to be my Valentine's treat?


----------



## Deejo

This conversation was better the first time around ...

Below is my response from the first time someone posted this list over a year and a half ago, and freaking out followed ...

I usually stay out of the 'Gaming' discussions now .... but enh, what the hell.

Gaming has nothing to do with being

*REAL MAN ™*










It is about being attractive to women. Period. Doesn't matter what kind of man you are. However, what kind of man you are will determine * how long* a woman will remain attracted to you.

The Sixteen Commandments of Poon? A sophomoric and provocative means of referring to concepts that needn't be either sophomoric or provocative.

This is why I generally choose to no longer argue over, or discuss it. Like it, or hate it, it works. And for those whom it works ... there is no vested interest in defending what you already know to be operationally true.

It works on women with low self esteem. It works on women with high self esteem. It works on women with little education, and it works on women with advanced degrees. It works on single women ... and works frighteningly well on married, bored, women.

That is why 'Gaming' concepts and the nature of attraction are important for men to be familiar with, whether it is delivered as toilet humor or by Dale Carnegie. If you don't think "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is 'Gaming', then I've got a bridge to sell you.

My take? I have excised all of the frat boy bullsh!t from my notion of 'Gaming'. I am confident that most of the other male contributors share a similar view. No one here is going out of their way looking for new and exciting ways to be disrespectful to women. What they do need to learn is how to respect themselves first. It then makes the respect that we give to others, that much more valuable.

I found a nice little graphic that sums up exactly what I want to accomplish with 'Gaming':


----------



## Caribbean Man

Deejo said:


> This conversations was better the first time around ...
> 
> I found a nice little graphic that sums up exactly what I want to accomplish with 'Gaming':


:iagree:

My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

:iagree:

And that sums up the thread.

Btw: That girl seems to be hot. I'd go all alpha on her... if you know what I mean.


----------



## Gaia

Awesome deejo and totally agree!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Btw: That girl seems to be hot. I'd go all alpha on her... if you know what I mean.


:rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Deejo said:


>












I still think "Gaming" is half retarded ...(was never necessary to win me)... but
How To Win Friends and Influence People: is a damn good read and primer for how to LIVE in all aspects of life.


----------



## Monet19

Adex said:


> Follow the below, and your relationship will improve.
> 
> The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon « Chateau Heartiste
> 
> "I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first
> 
> Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.
> 
> II. Make her jealous
> 
> Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.
> 
> III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
> 
> Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.
> 
> IV. Don’t play by her rules
> 
> If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
> 
> V. Adhere to the golden ratio
> 
> Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.
> 
> VI. Keep her guessing
> 
> True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.
> 
> VII. Always keep two in the kitty
> 
> Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.
> 
> VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
> 
> Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.
> 
> IX. Connect with her emotions
> 
> Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.
> 
> X. Ignore her beauty
> 
> The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t ****ing. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.
> 
> XI. Be irrationally self-confident
> 
> No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more ***** than rational defeatism.
> 
> XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
> 
> In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.
> 
> XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
> 
> Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an *******, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate ******* beats being a polite beta, every time.
> 
> XIV. **** her good
> 
> **** her like it’s your last ****. And hers. **** her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.
> 
> XV. Maintain your state control
> 
> You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, **** tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.
> 
> XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
> 
> You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her."


Boy! Adex shure lit a fire with this posting! 

I read this one to my husband, wanted to see how he'd react. Not even half way through he said "ok, that's enough, I get the gist". I asked him if that's how a woman should be treated by a man? he said "you wouldn't have fallen for that" , he's right.


----------



## vspinkgrl

No...friggin...way. I want a husband not a d*bag. He better acknowledge my beauty! I would get real tired of saying I love you first..why do I have to fish for someone to say I love you? Let me find out you are making me jealous on purpose...say hello to your new couch bed. 

The whole thing sounds like a terrible attempt at an erotic novel.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Oh GOD I think we summed up this thread nicely, don't do an act of necromancy on it.


----------



## OrganizedChaos

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Whew! SO GLAD this doesn't happen to us women. Because when there are 10 of us girls and 10 guys in a bar those 10 guys are SO WILLING to give average- and below-average looking women a fair shake. I mean, these women have got above-average personalities, right?


Yes, we will.

Its called bartime. 

Watch the scramble begin.


----------



## anotherguy

Thundarr said:


> Little over the top. Some of it makes sense though. Probably more for dating than it is for keeping.


Laugh. 'a little'?

It is a total farce... that it gets labled as 'a little over the top' throws how assinine the alpha tripe is into stark relief.

Looks like a good article for The Onion though. :smthumbup:


----------



## MrHappy

See hamsters run.
Run hamsters run!


----------



## Enchanted

I enjoyed myself on this thread. Entertainment value high. I can't wait for his next one.


----------



## silentghost

Hi ..I'm new here. I've been reading TAM posts for quite sometime. 
My husband must have quite abit of alpha in him. 
No, I love you's
No apologies
No compliments
No affection

Even though I have high tolerance level to accept this...it still sucks.


----------



## silentghost

Enchanted said:


> I enjoyed myself on this thread. Entertainment value high. I can't wait for his next one.


 Enchanted...you read my mind. I can't wait for his next one. His posts have been very 'illuminating'.


----------



## Adex

I haven't been to this site for a week and a half and it's good to see this thread still close to the top. RECOGNIZE THE POWER OF THE ALPHA.:smthumbup:


----------



## humanbecoming

:rofl:


----------



## Adex

BUMP

I thought I'd bring this back for all the men suffering from no sex. Grab your woman, put her in her beta place, and improve your sex life with the tips from the original post.


----------



## Bellavista

My husband does not play mind games as suggested by your original, post and he gets plenty of sex. 

I read them to him and he replied he loves and respects me too much to play games. In fact in the past, having 'back up plans' nearly cost him everything.

If it works for you Alex, good on you, but this is not for the normal bloke in a marriage.


----------



## mhg

I don't normally respond to drivel like this, but I'll make an exception in this case.


Adex said:


> Follow the below, and your relationship will improve.
> 
> The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon « Chateau Heartiste
> 
> "I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first
> 
> Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.
> What a load of crud. The first thing I say to my wife every morning - before we have sex, which she initiates half the time - is I love you.
> 
> II. Make her jealous
> 
> Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.
> Flirting is just wrong on so many levels. If you truly love your wife, why on earth would you want to make her jealous? Why would you want her to feel not good enough? I can assure you, jealousy does not excite my wife. Or me.
> 
> III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
> 
> Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.
> My wife has been the centre of my world since day one. She's as far up on that pedestal as I can get her. She is my everything. And she treats me exactly the same way.
> 
> IV. Don’t play by her rules
> 
> If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
> Her rules, my rules don't exist. We have our rules. I can't believe you actually follow this stuff.
> 
> V. Adhere to the golden ratio
> 
> Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.
> Jeez mate, are you serious? Higher status? Since when are men higher than women? I give my wife everything she gives me. There's no point scoring, no game playing, just equal give and take.
> VI. Keep her guessing
> 
> True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.
> Quick to punish, slow to reward. I hope you don't have children. My wife gets straight answers to any questions she asks. Anything less than that is a lie.
> 
> VII. Always keep two in the kitty
> 
> Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.
> That is just plain bloody cruel. Keep two in the kitty? Are you deliberately trying to ruin your marriage and your wife's self-esteem?
> 
> VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
> 
> Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.
> Fk me. A man apologises if he's made a mistake. Apologise and move on. No game playing.
> 
> IX. Connect with her emotions
> 
> Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.
> :scratchhead:
> X. Ignore her beauty
> 
> The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t ****ing. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.
> Mate, my wife is beautiful, sexy, gorgeous, adorable, and I tell her that every day. Just like she tells me I'm sexy, hot, her stud and so on.
> 
> XI. Be irrationally self-confident
> 
> No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more ***** than rational defeatism.
> Confidence is good yeah. But not to the point where you're acting like an arrogant a**hole.
> XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
> 
> In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.
> 
> XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
> 
> Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an *******, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate ******* beats being a polite beta, every time.
> I had known my wife - girlfriend as she was then - for 8 months before we had sex. Two months before I even touched her sexually. This "rule" doesn't take into account women who have been seriously abused and are therefore terrified of being touched in case they get hurt.
> 
> XIV. **** her good
> 
> **** her like it’s your last ****. And hers. **** her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.
> So I'm assuming that if you follow all the preceding "rules" you get this? Because your wife can't resist your higher male alphaness? Ok. So explain to me how it is that I help my wife around the house, shower her with kisses and cuddles, do anything she asks of me, am comletely open and transparent in everything I do, tell her every day that she is the most important thing in my life - according to you this would make me a beta? - and yet I get all the sex I want - yeah, 17 times and counting this week - and she goes out of her way to look after me, cook my favourite meals, give me massages, brings me something every time she goes shopping, and has me so high on a pedestal that I'm as high as she is.
> 
> XV. Maintain your state control
> 
> You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, **** tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.
> ?
> 
> XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
> 
> You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her."


Mate, I don't fear losing her. Because I treat her properly, the way a man should treat his wife. And I'm not afraid to say that if I did lose her somehow, it would be the end of me. She is my world. And I am hers. Anything less than that makes life not worth living.


----------



## ExiledBayStater

Funny, these are called the Sixteen Commandments of Poon, not the Sixteen Commandments of Marriage. These rules might work if you want to take advantage of somebody with low self esteem on a temporary basis, but frankly they are no way to treat a living breathing human for any length of time.


----------



## Adex

If your marriage is good already, then by all means you don't have to follow it. However, if your wife doesn't give you sex and you do everything for her, it's time for a 180 degree change and to follow the rules. That will shift the balance of power into your favor and you will get what you want out of a marriage.


----------



## T&T

Adex said:


> If your marriage is good already, then by all means you don't have to follow it. However, if your wife doesn't give you sex and you do everything for her, it's time for a 180 degree change and to follow the rules. That will shift the balance of power into your favor and you will get what you want out of a marriage.


Thanks, Adex for the words of wisdom!! I'll make sure to put this into practice when hell freezes over!


----------



## mhg

But you're saying that if we follow these rules, we'll get everything we want.

Seems strange to me that I do the opposite of what you decree to be the only way, and I still get everything I want. And more. 

I'm sorely tempted to follow your rules and see what happens. I reckon I'd end up with a highly traumatised wife, 11 bewildered children, and a deeply troubled marriage.


----------



## hawx20

Some of you people need to realize that not everyone has it as good as you. If your woman is the type of woman who appreciates a good man and loving her more makes her love you even more, then you are a lucky man. 

MHG, your response to the OP makes sense from your point of view. You sound like a lucky man with a great wife. I do treat my wife good. I would tell her how pretty she is and how much her body turns me on. I cant remember the last time she ever complimented me. I'm not an ugly man by any means, and i honestly cant remember the last time she said i looked good. I rarely ever hear the words i love you and when i do, its usually after a fight when i make it known to her. I'll hear it then, usually for a day or two. Like I said, this doesnt apply to everyone. MHG obviously has the kind of wife that I can only dream about. Just accept the fact that while your wife responds to the "beta" things you do, a lot of women dont. The more "beta" you are, the more "alpha" they are to you. 

I'm like you. I do everything you do with my wife. That got me having to chase her, bugging her for sex more than once a week, getting frustrated, and generally being unhappy due to an unresponsive wife. Now i'm not saying all those rules are good, and some go a bit to far, but for the most part, they work on some women.

Lets just admit that some of us men arent so lucky. Some of us have selfish wives. Some of us have wives who associate having a good and easy life with being boring. Some of our wives need the jaws of life to open their legs with. Even if you get them open, their favorite sexual position is corpse or dead log.

For those of us who arent so lucky, these rules help because it slaps them back into reality. Obviously for those lucky men I described first, these rules are not needed.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

hawx20 said:


> Some of you people need to realize that not everyone has it as good as you. If your woman is the type of woman who appreciates a good man and loving her more makes her love you even more, then you are a lucky man.
> 
> ... i'm not saying all those rules are good, and some go a bit to far, but for the most part, they work on some women.
> 
> Lets just admit that some of us men arent so lucky. Some of us have selfish wives. Some of us have wives who associate having a good and easy life with being boring. Some of our wives need the jaws of life to open their legs with. Even if you get them open, their favorite sexual position is corpse or dead log.
> 
> For those of us who arent so lucky, these rules help because it slaps them back into reality. Obviously for those lucky men I described first, these rules are not needed.


I'm surprising myself with this but I actually agree with what you've said here.
It makes sense.


----------



## GTdad

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm surprising myself with this but I actually agree with what you've said here.
> It makes sense.


Although over the top, these "rules" are akin to lowering the thermostat, a theory I will personally vouch for. It's just a shame that anyone has to resort to using such theories/games/tactics.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

GTdad said:


> Although over the top, these "rules" are akin to lowering the thermostat, a theory I will personally vouch for. It's just a shame that anyone has to resort to using such theories/games/tactics.


That's always my big question in life.WHY do we have to play games?
If my partner asks me "what's wrong" I have a choice.I can tell him what's bothering me in a clear and direct way.OR I can play the game and shrug "nothing.i'm fine".Then drag it out all evening,cutting off sex,cutting off affection,etc.
When it could have all been avoided by coming out and speaking my mind. Thankfully,I always choose to share what's on my mind.
I seriously think people should have to take a class or several regarding effective communication skills in relationships.


----------



## GTdad

ScarletBegonias said:


> That's always my big question in life.WHY do we have to play games?
> If my partner asks me "what's wrong" I have a choice.I can tell him what's bothering me in a clear and direct way.OR I can play the game and shrug "nothing.i'm fine".Then drag it out all evening,cutting off sex,cutting off affection,etc.
> When it could have all been avoided by coming out and speaking my mind. Thankfully,I always choose to share what's on my mind.
> I seriously think people should have to take a class or several regarding effective communication skills in relationships.


Sometimes words have no effect on certain people or certain situations. In those unfortunate cases, communication has to take other forms i.e. behavior and demeanor. I wish it was otherwise.


----------



## Hall33

Weird, my wife married me, exactly because I wasn't a DB who followed these rules like many men "on the scene" who did.

I don't know, I can definitely see how these rules work for dating "chicks" with low sense of self worth.


----------



## chillymorn

the typical bad boy!

lots of women like being treated like sh*T.

WHY? i DON'T KNOW BUT THERES A TON OF THEM OUT THERE DIVORCING THEIR GOOD natured husbands to f*ck bad boys.

just look at the coping with infidelity board.


when I was dating a million years ago(seem like a million yrs ago)

this sh*t worked like magic. the more aloof the more pu$$y i got.

but as I age I don't want stupid games I just want some one to treat me the way I treat them.


----------



## Created2Write

And how would a man react if a woman chose to exhibit the attributes listed in the opening post? Would he stick around? Would he feel mesmorized by how strong, independent and confident she is? Or would he feel totally unappreciated? Like his worth in the relationship was only to solidify the woman's arrogance and *****y behavior?


----------



## Thundarr

Created2Write said:


> And how would a man react if a woman chose to exhibit the attributes listed in the opening post? Would he stick around? Would he feel mesmorized by how strong, independent and confident she is? Or would he feel totally unappreciated? Like his worth in the relationship was only to solidify the woman's arrogance and *****y behavior?


There's a subset of men who would fall for this hook, line, and sinker just like the subset of women who do. I suspect a larger percent of women would fall into this trap than men though just because women more frequently internalize being treated poorly as their fault (maybe. I don't really know?). How many doormats (men and women) do we see in the infidelity sections being beat down and taking blame for being treated bad. Pretty much anytime the only answer someone has for staying with their SO is that "I love him/her" then it's an indicator that something's screwed up.


----------



## Adex

hawx20 said:


> Lets just admit that some of us men arent so lucky. Some of us have selfish wives. Some of us have wives who associate having a good and easy life with being boring. Some of our wives need the jaws of life to open their legs with. Even if you get them open, their favorite sexual position is corpse or dead log.
> 
> For those of us who arent so lucky, these rules help because it slaps them back into reality. Obviously for those lucky men I described first, these rules are not needed.


Exactly. That's the whole point. I'd say my wife responds better when I follow these rules and don't come on as strong. I think my wife is hot and it's a turn on to have sex with her. I've been with more than 10 girls and she's the only one that still turns me on with sex. The others it got old and I found myself fantasizing about other girls when having sex with them.

I suppose though that her previous exs put her on a pedestal. She doesn't respond well to that. In fact, she would get a bit mean and stand offish when I was too nice to her or gave her too many compliments. Now I just play it cool and act more alpha too her, and she loves me for it.


----------



## mhg

Adex said:


> Exactly. That's the whole point. I'd say my wife responds better when I follow these rules and don't come on as strong. I think my wife is hot and it's a turn on to have sex with her. I've been with more than 10 girls and she's the only one that still turns me on with sex. The others it got old and I found myself fantasizing about other girls when having sex with them.
> 
> I suppose though that her previous exs put her on a pedestal. She doesn't respond well to that. In fact, she would get a bit mean and stand offish when I was too nice to her or gave her too many compliments. Now I just play it cool and act more alpha too her, and she loves me for it.


Hang on, you say in another thread that sex with your wife gets old.

And that you choose porn over her because you want to fantasise about other women and have some variety.

You're contradicting yourself.


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## *LittleDeer*

Adex said:


> Exactly. That's the whole point. I'd say my wife responds better when I follow these rules and don't come on as strong. I think my wife is hot and it's a turn on to have sex with her. I've been with more than 10 girls and she's the only one that still turns me on with sex. The others it got old and I found myself fantasizing about other girls when having sex with them.
> 
> I suppose though that her previous exs put her on a pedestal. She doesn't respond well to that. In fact, she would get a bit mean and stand offish when I was too nice to her or gave her too many compliments. Now I just play it cool and act more alpha too her, and she loves me for it.


MHG got you there.

Why are you lying?

If you treat your wife poorly I doubt she loves you for it. Eventually she will tire of the games and move on.


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