# Confused



## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

My wife and I have been together for 7 years, married for 1 this October. We never really had any real problems during the course of out relationship. But, back in January, she began to be very distant and was spending nearly all her time with these friends she made at her tennis courses. I saw the change in here and was getting frustrated with her. This had gone on for weeks until this one friend of hers had to leave the country because of Visa issues. So he is now in India, and I was constantly checking the phone records and was seeing dozens of calls back and forth to India totaling hundreds of minutes. 

So I asked her what was going on. Naturally she said they were just friends. I accepted that as truth, but wasn't really sure I believed her. A few weeks ago, I had enough. I am not proud that I did this, but I began going through her stuff and found some hand written notes of here detailing calls, itinerary for flights, words in Hindi and the like as well as a note detailing the progress of their relationship and how she thinks about the times they've had and that she is truly in love with him. I flipped. 

When I confronted her about it, she said it is nothing :scratchhead:. How is it nothing? My wife means everything to me and she is going to say a note in her handwriting professing love to another man is nothing. 

She claims that she has been confused about things for a while now and wasnt sure if she was ready to be married. She has all this self doubt and she thinks she has been putting everyone else above her happiness. 

She is now telling me she just needs her own space and to think. I am now completely lost. On one side it almost appears she is ready to call it quits, but on the other it doesn't. 

I don't like and all and was completely crushed when I found out about the OM, and I surprisingly do not garner any ill will to him because she never told him she was married :scratchhead: 

I want think to work out, what should I do?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

First of all she's having an affair, accept it. The amount of calls, texts, notes, etc prove it beyond the shadow of doubt.

Second she's want her 'space' which translates into a legal separation from you so she can live out the affair to the fullest without hiding from you and others since by separating from you, in her mind she's not really married. *DO NOT allow this* because you'll be in limbo for an undetermined amount of time waiting for her dubious return to you. If she insists on a separation tell her that you will be filing for divorce.

You cannot control her behavior but you certainly can control yours. Read all the links below my signature as well as *lordmayhem's links*. If you need help in implementing any of the strategies designed to guide you through the ordeal, feel free to post your questions.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> You cannot control her behavior but you certainly can control yours.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Morituri could not be more right. It is very critical that you understand this.

She is going to be acting, talking, and communicating in such a way that you will begin to question your own sanity. Do not allow her to place you in a box.

The reality she has mapped for herself (in her mind) is placing you as the antithesis to her happiness. She will be operating from this perspective.


"She has all this self doubt and she thinks she has been putting everyone else above her happiness." This is classic Bull Sh_t, designed to make you feel bad for her...don't.

Above all else, trust nothing without verification.

Good luck


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

She says she is not sure so she can explore the OM. If it doens't work with her new love, no big deal she has YOU, THE SECOND CHOICE!!. Don't be plan b, 180, lay down the law now!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Confront OM and explain the fact that the OM may or may not know if your W is married, and that you want his spport for the marriage and the respect and to end all contact with her before they A gets out of hand and others need to be exposed to this adultous behavior.

Confronting him will not gurentee anything other the the fact that you know about him and you are trying to repair the marriage. So the OM response is irrelevent. so keep it short, you are just pointing out the simple fact that you now now whats going on and you want the marriage to work.

This alone may not make it worth it for the OM and the drama that comes with your W.

He may tell you to screw off, but that is when you go online and find everything there is to find about OM. So if does continue you can expose this to his W/GF and family.


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

she is cheating. Living out a fantasy while keeping the comfort of a long term relationship(you) expose it then perpare for divorce. If she loves you she will turn around and do the right thing. if she doesn't then the marriage would have probably ended at some point regardless. It's really this simple.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I agree with everything else that has been said. We want ours spouses to be able to have their own hobbies, friends and identities. That said we also have to balance with understanding what is going on in their world. One way to do that is to spend much intimate time with them. Listen to them and know who thier friends are. Not sure from your post if this was happening.

Then there is having proper boundaries in a marriage. This of course includes opposite sex friends. 

All this said EAs can happen. We cannot tell if this went any further from what you have posted. People make choices. She owns her affair.

So you need to take care of yourself. Follow the advice from the above posters. I would only add that you deserve to be the first choice and not the backup plan.

Good luck.


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## zsu234 (Oct 25, 2010)

Young, short marriage, no kids, simple just divorce her ass and move on.


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

So I guess my Doomsday has arrived. 

I found out about my wifes secret facebook page and email, although I couldn't access it. I confronted get about it. She got real defensive. Accused me of spying. This morning she finally owned up to an extramarital affair that has been physical, although she wouldn't go into detail. I ofcourse assumed sex, but she said "not sex per say" -her words. The OM is unaware she is married. I found one of her male friends on facebook and told her I messaged him, she flipped. I don't know if this is the OM, but based on her reaction, I believe it so. 

She said she has been unhappy for a while now, feeling neglected. So have I. She has felt that she has ben the only one taking responsibility for our relationship and our household. To be honest, we have both been neglecting each other. She says she has no idea what direction I am taking my life (I'm 25, no career path. She is 27 writing her thesis in publishing) I can't fault her for thinking that. I have ben relying on her for far typo long, maybe I need to find myself a career path. I am a big procrastinator, pessimist (i have always looked at the negative in life, and to be honest was not surprised to hear of the A, I guess I seen it coming for a while). She had done all the house work, financial arrangements, and juggled grad school since we moved from MI to PA 3 years ago. I agree, I haven't contributed my fair share of the burden in the relationship. I think it finally took its toll on her. She said she began to think she needed to find someone who cares. 

I an still lost.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

BrianH said:


> So I guess my Doomsday has arrived.
> 
> I found out about my wifes secret facebook page and email, although I couldn't access it. I confronted get about it. She got real defensive. Accused me of spying. This morning she finally owned up to an extramarital affair that has been physical, although she wouldn't go into detail. I ofcourse assumed sex, but she said "not sex per say" -her words. The OM is unaware she is married. I found one of her male friends on facebook and told her I messaged him, she flipped. I don't know if this is the OM, but based on her reaction, I believe it so.
> 
> ...


NO!NO!NO!NO!!!! Look, you can take the blame for 50% of the problems in your marriage and she can be blamed for the other 50%. But, her affair is 100% on her! Don't you love how they blame you for having THEIR affair? NO ONE deserves to be cheated on peroid! Right now, she doesn't care about you. I mean, look at her reaction when you told her you messaged someone! She went blastic!

She's more concerned about protecting her affair than your feelings. Now she's telling you she's confused and wants time to think? What exactly does that mean? Does she want you to move out? Or to seperate? If this is the case, it's not for her to get her head on straight, its to continue her affair without any interference from you! So, don't fall for that.

Start exposing to her family, your family and let people know that you two are going through some tough times due to her cheating on you with some Indian dude and that you could really use their support for the both of you.

Oh, and by the way, they had sex. Unless you have concrete evidence, cheaters will only tell you the bare minimum of what's been going on to make it look less than what it truely is.


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

crossbar said:


> NO!NO!NO!NO!!!! Look, you can take the blame for 50% of the problems in your marriage and she can be blamed for the other 50%. But, her affair is 100% on her! Don't you love how they blame you for having THEIR affair? NO ONE deserves to be cheated on peroid! Right now, she doesn't care about you. I mean, look at her reaction when you told her you messaged someone! She went blastic!
> 
> She's more concerned about protecting her affair than your feelings. Now she's telling you she's confused and wants time to think? What exactly does that mean? Does she want you to move out? Or to seperate? If this is the case, it's not for her to get her head on straight, its to continue her affair without any interference from you! So, don't fall for that.
> 
> ...


I dont even know how to bring it up to my family, or even try to bring it up to hers. I want to R, I love her despite the fact she cheated on my. Will that be the final straw with her? How do you tell your WS parents they raised a cheater?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

First of all, both of you own your share of the marital issues but *she is solely responsible for choosing to have an affair.*. She had a duty to inform you all that she's told you now *BEFORE* she had the affair. If she had done so then you would have had an opportunity to mend your ways and be the husband she needed. Oh and never believe when they say that there wasn't sex because most likely there was. Wives know how devastating it is to their's husband ego to know that they had sex with another man and so many of them lie to their teeth that there was no sexual intercourse.

Both of you need to decide if you want to reconcile or divorce. If the two of you want to reconcile, then the two of you will have to become totally transparent, with no secrets. She especially would have to willingly agree to end all contact with the OM and give you all of her facebook, email, text, and phone passwords as a sign that she is serious about doing her share of marital recovery.


P.S. There is an excellent book by Dr Robert Glover titled 'No More Mr Nice Guy'. If you are interested, you can click the link below my signature and download a free copy of it.


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

morituri said:


> First of all, both of you own your share of the marital issues but *she is solely responsible for choosing to have an affair.*. She had a duty to inform you all that she's told you now *BEFORE* she had the affair. If she had done so then you would have had an opportunity to mend your ways and be the husband she needed. Oh and never believe when they say that there wasn't sex because most likely there was. Wives know how devastating it is to their's husband ego to know that they had sex with another man and so many of them lie to their teeth that there was no sexual intercourse.
> 
> Both of you need to decide if you want to reconcile or divorce. If the two of you want to reconcile, then the two of you will have to become totally transparent, with no secrets. She especially would have to willingly agree to end all contact with the OM and give you all of her facebook, email, text, and phone passwords as a sign that she is serious about doing her share of marital recovery.
> 
> ...


I am not trying to assume blame for the affair, just the problems we have as a couple. I am trying to figure out the next step. We have been going at it all day today. We are both emotionally drained at the moment. I want work things out. I want us to try. She says she need space to think about things. She doesn't know where we are going, but feels we are going in two different directions. 

What should I do, give her the space she wants, do I completely blow the lid off the box on the affair to those involved (her OM doesn't know she is married.) Do I completely expose her to him at the risk ofany chance of reconciliation? 

Lost
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You absolutely blow the lid off it. Otherwise you are helping preserve the affair it's lies. You should be using a key logger and VAR to catch her contacting the OM and you should do everything you can to sabotage the affair and the conditions that let her contact him.

Getting rid of him is a big step in killing the affair. Until he is gone you have no chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Too early after her confession to make any concrete decision about reconciliation or not. You need a few days for it all to sink in.


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> You absolutely blow the lid off it. Otherwise you are helping preserve the affair it's lies. You should be using a key logger and VAR to catch her contacting the OM and you should do everything you can to sabotage the affair and the conditions that let her contact him.
> 
> Getting rid of him is a big step in killing the affair. Until he is gone you have no chance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The thing is, I dont know 100% who he is, I have my belief but not 100% certain.

I installed a keylogger on our computer, but don't know if she uses out to contact him our if it is actually installed correctly.
. She may use her phone via text/email which she has password protected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Big time Exposure is the only way to deal with this. You need to get tested for STD's. Her comment no sex per say sounds like Bill Clinton. Please just see an attorney to understand your options.


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

aug said:


> Too early after her confession to make any concrete decision about reconciliation or not. You need a few days for it all to sink in.


I feel the same way, but do I leave the apartment. Really nowhere to go. No real family or friends around three area (in PA from MI)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

bryanp said:


> Big time Exposure is the only way to deal with this. You need to get tested for STD's. Her comment no sex per say sounds like Bill Clinton. Please just see an attorney to understand your options.


Truthfully, we haven't been sexually active since January. I guess when she began her emotional aspect of the affair, which turned physical.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Has she been remorseful at all?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

'Give her space' as in a legal separation? If that is the case then what she really saying is that she wants to act like a single woman by having her affair with the OM turn into a committed relationship totally out in the open while she keeps you as a back up - second choice - in limbo with the dubious posssibility of returning to you. Don't buy into it and just simply file for divorce. Nothing is worse than being in limbo, trust me.


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

crossbar said:


> Has she been remorseful at all?


I honestly don't know if she has remorse. Everything we have said today has been through text. We were both workimg while going back and forth and haven't seen our heard her voice today. I do know that the entire time we were texting, not once were the words "im sorry" present. the most remorse I've got was "i can't trust myself. I've ruined things"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

morituri said:


> 'Give her space' as in a legal separation? If that is the case then what she really saying is that she wants to act like a single woman by having her affair with the OM turn into a committed relationship totally out in the open while she keeps you as a back up - second choice - in limbo with the dubious posssibility of returning to you. Don't buy into it and just simply file for divorce. Nothing is worse than being in limbo, trust me.


I don't know if she wants legal separation. she says she doesn't know if she wants. but I am feel like I am in limbo
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

BrianH said:


> I don't know if she wants legal separation. she says she doesn't know if she wants. but I am feel like I am in limbo
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is nothing to be in limbo about and you know it ....She is basically in a relationship with someone else (for whatever reason she feels the need to hold on to you as a back up, a lot of women do this) but essentially you guys have barely any intimacy at all...no sex since january while she is having a physical affair? come on man you gotta love yourself a little...she knows exactly what she wants but she won't tell you because that might make you walk away. She is used to you and comfortable with you but she is focusing her emotional energy and time on another man because that man turns her own...my guess is that the man is not really interested in a full blown relationship so she is essentially sticking with you while trying to pursue something with him (she is taking advantage of your passive behavior in order to keep doing this by the way) You have already discovered the affair and she has pretty much told you its a PA. The fact that you are sitting here blaming yourself and taking this level of emotional abuse (and yes this IS abuse) only gives her more reasons to continue doing it since she is not dealing with any real consequences for her actions. You could get a key logger and some spy software to find out more about her affair but honestly i don't think it would make a difference here; even if she stays now chances are when she finds someone that she prefers, she will leave you for him at that point...and you would have wasted even more time than you already have on an unhealthy relationship. Listen, you got to love YOURSELF because NO ONE will do it for you, get a goal and pursue it, work on improving yourself in spite of your pessimism (i am an accomplished pessimist myself) love yourself, that way you won't have to depend on anyone (you can't truly love another if you don't love yourself) if it is financially possible for you prepare to file for divorce and prepare to move on with your life, no marriage or woman should be worth your dignity. Tell her how you feel, apologize for whatever you may have done wrong and leave her, at least that way you have your integrity intact is she loves you at all she may see that and change her ways but if she does not then that right there is a sign that you are probably better off without her. Life is short and we don't know when our time will be up...when all is said and done..is this what you would want your love life to look like? Don't let fear of lonliness become a cage that keeps you from moving forward and fulfilling your potential. You are worth more than that.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Brian,

Her refusal to make a decision about recovery is indeed a decision.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

BH,

All the above comments have merit...I would however add just one a few comments.

Things are going to be way out of your control for the foreseeable future. She is going to use every trick in the book to make you feel inadequate, unworthy, unloved, and less than who you are....it is your job to remember who you are.

You are the *HUSBAND!* The person she swore an oath before heaven and earth to honor. There is no middle ground when faced with the uncertainties she will try an unleash upon you, stand firm. She will try and pull you into her confused reality, do not allow this. Hold true to your position as the husband, this is your rock!

There is no "I need space"
There is no "just friends"

There is only 100% NO CONTACT.

Remain centered in this, and remember to approach all of this with love and compassion. She has no idea what in the hell is going on...believe me. She is just as confused as you are, although she doesn't know it yet.

If she refuses to go no-contact...or insist on her space and privacy..or anywhere in between then you must be willing to take the next step...and file.

I know you want to reconcile..and you very well can. The divorce can take as long as you need it to. It however sends a clear message that you are not a friend, boyfriend, roommate or doormat...you are her husband.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

BrianH said:


> The thing is, I dont know 100% who he is, I have my belief but not 100% certain.
> 
> I installed a keylogger on our computer, but don't know if she uses out to contact him our if it is actually installed correctly.
> . She may use her phone via text/email which she has password protected.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What kind of keylogger did you install? You DO get what you pay for. The quality ones like Web Watcher, Spy Agent, Spector Pro, etc, come with 24 hour tech support, so you can ask them. 

For the phone, you can try 

MobiStealth | Spy Mobile Phone Software, Cell Phone Spy Monitoring, GPS Location Tracking App For $39.99 | iPhone, Blackberry, Android, Symbian/Nokia Spyware

Mobile Spy - Monitor SMS Text Messages, Call Info and GPS Locations on iPhone, BlackBerry, Android, Windows Mobile and Symbian OS Smartphones. Spy Software for Monitoring your Cell Phone

Follow all the great advice above. She's deep in the affair fog right now, so don't even try to Reconcile (R) at this point, she's nowhere near ready because the A is still ongoing. At the very least, she's till very emotionally attached to OM. 

The only thing I'd like to add, is that don't take her word for it that OM doesn't know she's married. I find it hard to believe that he doesn't know. No sex since January? Then the affair has been going on at least that long. To be that emotionally invested like it seems she is, she would have confided in OM everything, even the most intimate details of your marriage. Don't overlook the immigration issue either. You say he had to go home to India because of Visa issues? Don't be surprised if you find out that they've made marriage plans, and she plans to divorce you and petition her OM to come to your country to marry her, OR she plans to go to India and marry him and then petition him to come back here. I've seen this in other forums.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> I know you want to reconcile..and you very well can. The divorce can take as long as you need it to. It however sends a clear message that you are not a friend, boyfriend, roommate or doormat...you are her husband.


Please listen to this man. This advice is your only hope. What you are doing now is not working so stop doing it and do this instead. 

There is no sure thing here, but this is your best option if you want a chance at saving your marriage. Your current path and thinking will lead to a slow but certain death to your marriage.


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> What kind of keylogger did you install? You DO get what you pay for. The quality ones like Web Watcher, Spy Agent, Spector Pro, etc, come with 24 hour tech support, so you can ask them.
> 
> For the phone, you can try
> 
> ...


I installed a free keylogger called Kidlogger, so far I am getting bits and pieces but would like more. Currently getting each site she is visiting (mostly facebook) but can't actually see what she is looking at because when I click link, I can't access without user and pass. The keystroke feature is crap and only get screen shot every 5 minutes if it works at all. 

is it wrong for me to feel like I am doing something wrong with spying on WW, even though she has/is cheating? I know she broke the trust in our marriage, but I still feel like a dirtbag for doing it. But I can't stop refreshing the log on my phone checking what she is doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Brain,
Come on you have been screwed over, don't you feel the need to find the truth? She has caused you to validate her commitment, you need to do this, it's not spying, your investigating and protecting your marriage.
If she didn't have secrets then you wouldn't need to investigate the fact that your being betrayed.
When ever I do business I investigate the client to make sure they can pay and have good credit. Its the same for a marriage you are investigating the marriage to see if your wife is commited to her vows that she took in front of a bunch of people so many years ago.

You owe it to your self to know the truth, its the course your wife has choosen by being dishonest. If any one is to blame for your need to investigate it is her not you.

So go get a VAR and GPS and pull those cell phone logs, YOU DISERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Brian, would you feel bad following to a restraint where she was meeting up with the OM?

Would you feel bad listening in to a conversation she was having in another room with him?

Common, you need to use every tool available to know the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The truth will set you free


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## BrianH (Sep 17, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> What kind of keylogger did you install? You DO get what you pay for. The quality ones like Web Watcher, Spy Agent, Spector Pro, etc, come with 24 hour tech support, so you can ask them.
> 
> For the phone, you can try
> 
> ...


You talk about this "fog" she is in right now, D-Day was yesterday. I know each instance is different but is there an average time you wait until you begin to discuss R?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

BrianH said:


> You talk about this "fog" she is in right now, D-Day was yesterday. I know each instance is different but is there an average time you wait until you begin to discuss R?


The average time to wait to discuss R is immediately after she asks you about discussing it. Do not talk to her about it before that. Until she gets out of the fog and wants to discuss it, you are wasting your time and showing weakness. Your main goal right now is to do what you can to rattle her cage and wake her up.

The best way to do this is to Alpha up. Show resolve. Tell her she needs to decide right now that she wants to save her marriage. Tell her that the answer is either yes or not yes. If she cannot decide right now, tell her you will take that as not a yes and that you will proceed with contacting a lawyer about filing for D.

Filing for D is not the same thing as being D. It takes time and pushes her out of her comfort zone with the other man. If she wakes up before the D is final and asks to talk about R, you can now discuss R from a position of self respect.


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