# The pain of being betrayed



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I would like some answers on this.
Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed?
A spouse is the worst of course, a friend can be very bad as well as a family member or anyone you put your trust into.
It seems some people just dont get the damage that has been done.
"Get over it,it was a long time ago,I didnt mean it".....
Why dont they get it?
The pain is very real and it is with you every waking moment,at least for a long time the pain is there and it's real as all hell.
If they were on the receiving end they might understand. 
It can ruin your life,stop you from functioning .
Any thoughts?
Thank you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I guess it's like anything else in life. People can sympathize and empathize but it's only when you have faced it yourself that you fully understand. 
Even among those what have been betrayed there are vastly different experiences of it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

They have never experienced it so they can’t really imagine the pain their actions cause. They think they can but they can’t. And most of all they want it to quickly go away so they don’t have to witness the pain their spouse is living with. They want life to return to normal ASAP. My exH rug-swept the first affair he had that I found out about. Years later, I found out about the second one and I divorced him. He claimed he understood the complete devastation he caused and hated what he had done, etc., etc., etc., but I doubt that. It’s a very tough road to travel and it took several years for me to recover but I did. And so will you. When you’re in the middle of it you think the pain will never end but it does. It just takes time. That’s the only thing that works. Time.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Openminded said:


> They have never experienced it so they can’t really imagine the pain their actions cause. They think they can but they can’t. And most of all they want it to quickly go away so they don’t have to witness the pain their spouse is living with. They want life to return to normal ASAP. My exH rug-swept the first affair he had that I found out about. Years later, I found out about the second one and I divorced him. He claimed he understood the complete devastation he caused and hated what he had done, etc., etc., etc., but I doubt that. It’s a very tough road to travel and it took several years for me to recover but I did. And so will you. When you’re in the middle of it you think the pain will never end but it does. It just takes time. That’s the only thing that works. Time.


 Thanks Open.
Damn good answer. 
I'm sorry you had to go through that crap. 
I really am.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

calvin said:


> Thanks Open.
> Damn good answer.
> I'm sorry you had to go through that crap.
> I really am.


That pain is why I believe there should be severe repercussions legally due to it. Why it used to be illegal. I would not convict, as a juror, a BS at trial. I would however vote to convict a WS or AP like a codefendant of a crime of violence.

At a minimum, a WS should loose most everything in divorce. Only get visitation and 1/3 of joint assets.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Openminded said:


> They have never experienced it so they can’t really imagine the pain their actions cause. They think they can but they can’t. And most of all they want it to quickly go away so they don’t have to witness the pain their spouse is living with. They want life to return to normal ASAP. My exH rug-swept the first affair he had that I found out about. Years later, I found out about the second one and I divorced him. He claimed he understood the complete devastation he caused and hated what he had done, etc., etc., etc., but I doubt that. It’s a very tough road to travel and it took several years for me to recover but I did. And so will you. When you’re in the middle of it you think the pain will never end but it does. It just takes time. That’s the only thing that works. Time.


People always minimize the harm they think they will do when they betray their spouse.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> That pain is why I believe there should be severe repercussions legally due to it. Why it used to be illegal. I would not convict, as a juror, a BS at trial. I would however vote to convict a WS or AP like a codefendant of a crime of violence.
> 
> At a minimum, a WS should loose most everything in divorce. Only get visitation and 1/3 of joint assets.


Trouble is there may have been other things in the marriage. Say the BS may have been violent or into crime. Or a very difficult addict. One spouse may have withheld sex for years say. Sometime cheating doesn't happen in a complete vacuum.
Not excusing it at all btw.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> People always minimize the harm they think they will do when they betray their spouse.


I guess they don't want to think about it.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> That pain is why I believe there should be severe repercussions legally due to it. Why it used to be illegal. I would not convict, as a juror, a BS at trial. I would however vote to convict a WS or AP like a codefendant of a crime of violence.
> 
> At a minimum, a WS should loose most everything in divorce. Only get visitation and 1/3 of joint assets.


 I have thought about this before. 
Your WS went behind your back,lied, promised a future together then played kick ball with your heart and trust.
Why do they deserve half?
Half of what?
My devotion, half of my love,half of my time,my life?
I'll give the 1/3 and that is being generous. 
If I did anything to tear someone apart I deserve nothing.
It is very unfair but it's the law.
It adds more pain on top of pain.
Oh well...


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I guess they don't want to think about it.


Either that or they really don't think they are harming their spouse.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Trouble is there may have been other things in the marriage. Say the BS may have been violent or into crime. Or a very difficult addict. One spouse may have withheld sex for years say. Sometime cheating doesn't happen in a complete vacuum.
> Not excusing it at all btw.


I can get that.
That's true.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Either that or they really don't think they are harming their spouse.


No they dont.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Openminded said:


> They have never experienced it so they can’t really imagine the pain their actions cause. They think they can but they can’t. And most of all they want it to quickly go away so they don’t have to witness the pain their spouse is living with. They want life to return to normal ASAP. My exH rug-swept the first affair he had that I found out about. Years later, I found out about the second one and I divorced him. He claimed he understood the complete devastation he caused and hated what he had done, etc., etc., etc., but I doubt that. It’s a very tough road to travel and it took several years for me to recover but I did. And so will you. When you’re in the middle of it you think the pain will never end but it does. It just takes time. That’s the only thing that works. Time.


Absolutely. My ex, literally ONE week after I found out he'd been keeping an ex gf around our entire 13 years together (and he'd lied about everything and changed his story based on what I could prove), stomped off from dinner proclaiming that he "didn't have to listen to this" after i brought it up.

He proclaimed that I "just wanted to be miserable" because i wouldn't rug sweep. Conflict made baby uncomfortable, and he was still lying and terrified that I'd find out more. I know because he later slipped that when first confronted his first thought was "OMG what does she know".

People just don't like dealing with pain and want it to go away. We all need a couple of trusted allies that help us by being there. I have a few friends like that and I am that friend to a few people.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Trouble is there may have been other things in the marriage. Say the BS may have been violent or into crime. Or a very difficult addict. One spouse may have withheld sex for years say. Sometime cheating doesn't happen in a complete vacuum.
> Not excusing it at all btw.


This is why I have in the past pointed out that where cheating is concerned there are often 2 separate issues. The betrayed spouse is often sanctified, but the state of the marriage could be very much their fault. Of course both are usually responsible to some degree even if it's not equal.

That's issue 1. Issue 2 is that you have a spouse who deals with that by cheating, and you can't work with that. How someone deals with tough times is vitally important.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

calvin said:


> I have thought about this before.
> Your WS went behind your back,lied, promised a future together then played kick ball with your heart and trust.
> Why do they deserve half?
> Half of what?
> ...


So this is about money? Two people choose each other. That's on them. And it's rarely one-sided. You don't get paid for the way you handle your emotions or your life choices.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

If the one betraying isn’t capable of understanding the full damage they have caused = then there is little to no way the damage can possibly be repaired. 

Some people don’t have the mental capacity to own how they have participated. And if that is the case - it’s best to simply end it knowing they will never be capable of understanding another person’s feelings.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

> Get over it,it was a long time ago


I think this could be good advice actually.
Yes infidelity is painful and traumatic, and a ****ty thing to do to someone who loves you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

calvin said:


> I have thought about this before.
> Your WS went behind your back,lied, promised a future together then played kick ball with your heart and trust.
> Why do they deserve half?
> Half of what?
> ...


Deciding on the division of assets is about children, each having a place to live, enough to live on etc. It's not about punishment for who did what.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Oh man.
I hope I didnt open up some bad feelings here.
I was just looking for answers.
I'm sure some WS do feel remorseful and just like crap for what they have done.
Most dont seem too care but there are those who truely feel bad, I've seen it on here and in life.
Chitst,infidelity can flat out ruin many lives.

Not just a few lives,I'm talking many lives.
I wish people would think before they make a stupid choice over minutes,hours,days or even months of having some fun.
The Damino effect is real,others get hurt by someone's actions.
I dont get it....guess I never will. 
But yeah...some WS can come back and fix it if they are true.
Most dont give a **** though.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

SnowToArmPits said:


> I think this could be good advice actually.
> Yes infidelity is painful and traumatic, and a ****ty thing to do to someone who loves you.


Never.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Deciding on the division of assets is about children, each having a place to live, enough to live on etc. It's not about punishment for who did what.


Plus for all anyone knows, both parties could have betrayed and cheated and one just didn't get caught. There's no way to prove any of that.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

calvin said:


> Never.
> [/QUOTE





DownByTheRiver said:


> Plus for all anyone knows, both parties could have betrayed and cheated and one just didn't get caught. There's no way to prove any of that.


Not true.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

calvin said:


> Not true.


She doesn't mean you. We know you never cheated on your wife. 
She just means in other marriages that sometimes happens


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

That is an assumption.
And not a bright one.


calvin said:


> Not true.


People do stay faithful,or do you 
not think people have morals?
That when they are met with temptation in any form they will do the right thing?
Will they steal, fvck,rob or go after something they know is wrong?
********.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> She doesn't mean you. We know you never cheated on your wife.
> She just means in other marriages that sometimes happens


Sorry.
My mistake.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Plus for all anyone knows, both parties could have betrayed and cheated and one just didn't get caught. There's no way to prove any of that.


Sorry,that was on me.
I get what you are saying.
I apologize.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

Near the end of my marriage, I attended the bachelor party of my WW's brother. Her other brother thought he would be funny and tried to get the groom and me in an uncompromising position with a hooker. We both begged off and nothing happened. We returned home and the brother-in-law decided to tell the story of how he teased us with a hooker. Everyone thought the story was amusing, including the bride-to-be, knowing full well that her groom and I would never cheat. Everyone, but my ex-wife was amused. She was absolutely livid and somewhat distraught. I was taken aback by her reaction. She had cheated on me previously and I strongly suspected she was in the midst of an affair with a close friend. Her reaction didn't make sense. If she felt like she could cheat, why couldn't I do the same? I thought, well maybe I was wrong and she had not engaged in cheating again. Four months later I had sufficient evidence to confirm what she was up to. That was the end of the marriage. Cheaters like my ex-wife are consumed with their desires. They have little or no regard for what their partners might experience because of their behavior. She was selfish enough to feel hurt that I might step out of the marriage while she was in the midst of her second known affair with a close friend. It was all about her and the hell with me.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

calvin said:


> I would like some answers on this.
> Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed?
> A spouse is the worst of course, a friend can be very bad as well as a family member or anyone you put your trust into.
> It seems some people just dont get the damage that has been done.
> ...


Some do not understand the pain of being betrayed because they are damaged and not capable.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

There is "betrayal" in the form of sexual infidelity, and there are other types of betrayal...

I am not referencing the OP situation, I don't know anything about it, but for a lot of couples, problems arise and fester for years, and sometimes decades with no resolution...What people think is the "perfect" marriage is far from it...

It's like a friend of mine, who was constantly denied sex and affection, despite years of doing everything in his power to change it...He loved his wife and wanted his family to stay together.. The last straw was when he planned this awesome romantic vacation for both of them without the kids, and all she did was complain and of course nothing happened...Fast forward a few years, and yeah, he finally cracked and got with another woman from work...

If you didn't know the backstory, you would think after listening to her and her family(I know all these people), that this guy is the most horrible human being that ever lived...He even confided that while he had opportunity earlier, he chose to not take it until the kids got older...

OK. so the argument could be that he should have divorced her years ago, and went along with finding someone else that wasn't so unaffectionate and cold..But then who decides who has the power in that situation? Why does the one that is doing the "betraying"(in this case the wife) with their own form of negative behavior, get to choose how this all goes down?

I have true sympathy for those who have been betrayed, but as been stated by others in the thread, its not as cut and dried all the time...


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

SRCSRC said:


> Near the end of my marriage, I attended the bachelor party of my WW's brother. Her other brother thought he would be funny and tried to get the groom and me in an uncompromising position with a hooker. We both begged off and nothing happened. We returned home and the brother-in-law decided to tell the story of how he teased us with a hooker. Everyone thought the story was amusing, including the bride-to-be, knowing full well that her groom and I would never cheat. Everyone, but my ex-wife was amused. She was absolutely livid and somewhat distraught. I was taken aback by her reaction. She had cheated on me previously and I strongly suspected she was in the midst of an affair with a close friend. Her reaction didn't make sense. If she felt like she could cheat, why couldn't I do the same? I thought, well maybe I was wrong and she had not engaged in cheating again. Four months later I had sufficient evidence to confirm what she was up to. That was the end of the marriage. Cheaters like my ex-wife are consumed with their desires. They have little or no regard for what their partners might experience because of their behavior. She was selfish enough to feel hurt that I might step out of the marriage while she was in the midst of her second known affair with a close friend. It was all about her and the hell with me.


Damn.
That's painful still no matter if she was an ex.
Ugh


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> There is "betrayal" in the form of sexual infidelity, and there are other types of betrayal...
> 
> I am not referencing the OP situation, I don't know anything about it, but for a lot of couples, problems arise and fester for years, and sometimes decades with no resolution...What people think is the "perfect" marriage is far from it...
> 
> ...


That seems to be a rare case but yes there must be physical intimacy and that comes in other forms besides sex,hugging, kissing,hand holding...all that good stuff.
I get what youre saying but still.
No,you cant do that.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> There is "betrayal" in the form of sexual infidelity, and there are other types of betrayal...
> 
> I am not referencing the OP situation, I don't know anything about it, but for a lot of couples, problems arise and fester for years, and sometimes decades with no resolution...What people think is the "perfect" marriage is far from it...
> 
> ...


 But the sex and other physical forms of intimacy are sacred and ment for the one you choose to marry.
If you want to back out of a commitment then do it with dignity.
Dont go and **** someone else.
No matter what ......it ....is....wrong.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

calvin said:


> Never.


Probably wouldn't help if I replied 'no, always'. 

I think a lot can be said for looking forward not back, and letting go of hatred for something or someone.

It's been my experience it's human nature to grow tired of someone who is focused on something bad in their life. Having this attitude doesn't mean they're a bad person, just that they have busy lives, too where things aren't all great either.

I had a bad back injury 30 years ago. People got tired of hearing me complain about it. I was still in pain, how could they say that? Well, they had problems, too.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

calvin said:


> But the sex and other physical forms of intimacy are sacred and ment for the one you choose to marry.
> If you want to back out of a commitment then do it with dignity.
> Dont go and **** someone else.
> No matter what ......it ....is....wrong.


This is worth repeating. My sentiment exactly.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

You can experience many things in life that are worse than infidelity. So it might not always be that unsympathetic people can't relate. It might be that someone who's been in a full body cast and recovered finds it hard to watch someone else who broke their arm and can't seem to get on with it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Don't discount the fact that some people might be hiding stuff about themselves as well.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Some people can't. For example, if a person is ASD they might try to understand, but can't. They love you, but understanding of where you are, what you are feeling might be outside their ability to grasp.

Also, if you find out about a betrayal late on it's possible that, over the years, they have come to terms with their cheating, perhaps even, to an extent, forgiven themselves. But for the betrayed person who has recently discovered the betrayal it's often as if the betrayal is a new, recent thing.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

calvin said:


> I would like some answers on this.
> Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed?
> A spouse is the worst of course, a friend can be very bad as well as a family member or anyone you put your trust into.
> It seems some people just dont get the damage that has been done.
> ...


I think the "not a big deal" or "long time ago" crowd are just trying to make themselves feel better. If in their mind, if they can minimize your pain, then it minimizes their own guilt as well.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

calvin said:


> I would like some answers on this.
> Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed?
> A spouse is the worst of course, a friend can be very bad as well as a family member or anyone you put your trust into.
> It seems some people just dont get the damage that has been done.
> ...


Some people can't empathize with others unless they themselves have experienced it (or anything else, really). Others don't care enough to be inconvenienced especially if they think "enough already".

After my DD, I was very closemouthed, I'm a private person, don't like to be emotional in front of others. So I didn't go around informing all and sundry, mainly family and very good friends. The only people who seemed to understand were ones who'd been down that road, others empathized even if they didn't understand, a few seemed impatient or asked really stupid questions. I simply had to accept it and move on, heck I still have family members asking me if I heard from my ex...🤦‍♀️ 🤦‍♀️ 🤦‍♀️ 

It's human nature, unfortunately. One thing though, people's reactions tell you who truly cares about you enough to give a ****, and who you need to put out of your inner circle. 

Btw, only you can decide if you're going to let it ruin your life or not. Of course, your situation is much different than mine was, but I'd be damned if I let another moment of my life be wasted, so I packed my **** up and got the heck out of dodge. There's really no good answer, sorry.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Beach123 said:


> If the one betraying isn’t capable of understanding the full damage they have caused = then there is little to no way the damage can possibly be repaired.
> 
> Some people don’t have the mental capacity to own how they have participated. And if that is the case - it’s best to simply end it knowing they will never be capable of understanding another person’s feelings.


This.

I was betrayed (not by cheating but a betrayal no less), he didn't get it, he refused to try to understand the damage caused, so I had to end 17 year marriage. There was just no way I could continue. He wasn't my partner, after all.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

calvin said:


> I would like some answers on this.
> Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed?
> A spouse is the worst of course, a friend can be very bad as well as a family member or anyone you put your trust into.
> It seems some people just dont get the damage that has been done.
> ...


Hi @calvin ,

Yep, I have thoughts. 

Speaking as someone who was formerly a WS, I think waywards, in a very general sense, think of the pain their affair causes as if it were "a wound"--like a very deep cut that takes a while to heal, but you can heal from it. I also think waywards, in a very general sense, think they deserve the chance to "let it heal." 

The problem is that I suspect most WSs don't truly comprehend that their affair is "A DEATH"--and like death, you don't heal from it. Dead is dead. Affair = DEAD MARRIAGE. So to really and truly understand the damage, they'd have to understand and accept that their actions (the affair) caused a FATAL BLOW to the marriage, and the marriage "as it was" is now dead and can not be brought back to life. 

This is why I think it's very rare to truly recover after an infidelity. In order to do so, the BS has to essentially choose to build a new relationship with the person who KILLED the relationship! Why would anyone choose to build with a killer when they could choose to build with someone who's "non-fatal"? Right?! And in order for the reconciliation to be a true recovery, honestly the WS has to have a complete change of heart, change of the way they think, change of view--in other words, after a long time the WS become another...a different person. Usually people don't actually reconcile--they just try to "go back to the way it was" which can't be done. 

@calvin, in your instance, I think parts of you kind of wish you never knew about this affair 28 years ago and kind of wish you could go back to "the way it was". I mean, I get it, and I think it's natural to have a sliver of you wish for the days when you felt secure and loved. But specifically for you, I think in order to have a true repair and live "happily ever after" that CSS would need to learn to be vulnerably honest with you and transparently open--allowing you to see all her warts and flaws. For a WS that is VERY hard because part of the reason a WS strays is because they feel like if people knew their real heart or true inner person, they would be rejected and unloved. 

Yeah, WSs don't get it. They are saying "Get over it,it was a long time ago,I didnt mean it".....to someone they killed. Dead is Dead, and it was their actions that did the killing. You can't "get over" being dead. Doesn't matter if they killed you a long time ago, you're still dead. They may not have meant to kill you, but you're still dead.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Calvin,

You Asked, *Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed? *

There are some observations based on behaviors I've seen and statements from people, that suggest a few answers.

* They are cheaters themselves and to acknowledge the pain of someone else from cheating is to implicitly admit
their own guilt and to invalidate the lies they tell themselves. They repeat the same excuses they told their
betrayed spouse in conversation.

* They have been cheated on and have accepted that their own spouse has cheated. Perhaps they belive the rationalizations their spouse gave or it's just too painful to feel their true emotions again, but I've seen wives of serial cheating husbands make excuses like "his father cheated too".

* They may have accepted some of the standard excuses, minimizations and victim blaming which circulates in our cultures.

* They came from a family where cheating was normal


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So this is about money? Two people choose each other. That's on them. And it's rarely one-sided. You don't get paid for the way you handle your emotions or your life choices.


 You know, what is wrong with you?
Yeah it's about money. 
I love it.
Its irreplaceable. 
My favorite songs is The Beatles "Give Me Money" 
That's what I want. 
Nothing but money...scew my family. 
I love money so thats why I have done the things Ive done for others. 
Yeah,money fixes everything. 
It always does. 
The Bible even tells you " For the root of all evil is
the LOVE of money".
You dont know jack.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> Hi @calvin ,
> 
> Yep, I have thoughts.
> 
> ...


Very well written.
Thanks,Thsnks AF.
You've been here forever,and your advice has been solid.
I do understand what you ate saying but I also have to disagree here by just the slimmest %.
I have seen a couple damaged people in my life used,abused and threatened.
Very rare but I have seen it.
I with a buddy put an end to it.
I've also seen those same two people think the abuse was normal....that's how the way it goes, they dont know much better,they want it to stop,to end,to be happy but they dont have the power.
The two I talk about made it and have a healthy sense of self respect now.
I have 5 sisters,two of then had bad..useless husbands,I dont get it but they are still messed up and there was a third.
She is doing very well.

Yeah dead is usually dead but sometimes people do get resuscitated.


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## Savannah01 (Sep 8, 2021)

calvin said:


> I would like some answers on this.
> Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed?
> A spouse is the worst of course, a friend can be very bad as well as a family member or anyone you put your trust into.
> It seems some people just dont get the damage that has been done.
> ...


Hmmm, yes I’m asking this myself as personally when I found out my husband was messaging a woman on social media — as simple as that is , it was still a betrayal to me .
To this day he can’t understand why this still bothers me constantly or why I am so angry about it . 
I think betrayal is betrayal no matter how you slice it . If the other Person feels hurt by the action regardless of the type — it is the only thing the counts . BEING BETRAYED OF YOUR TRUST . 
many partners and spouses , at least the Ones doing the betraying , often don’t see this … I don’t believe they don’t — I think they try to seem like they don’t think it’s a big deal because they don’t wanna to own up to how they are making their partners feel after the betrayal . 
call-it denial , but it is just an excuse in my opinion not to own up to the damage they have caused .


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> This is why I have in the past pointed out that where cheating is concerned there are often 2 separate issues. The betrayed spouse is often sanctified, but the state of the marriage could be very much their fault. Of course both are usually responsible to some degree even if it's not equal.
> 
> That's issue 1. Issue 2 is that you have a spouse who deals with that by cheating, and you can't work with that. How someone deals with tough times is vitally important.


Problem is that you have to take the word of a cheater, by definition a liar highly motivated to shift blame.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> Problem is that you have to take the word of a cheater, by definition a liar highly motivated to shift blame.


Not really. Cheaters don't post here that often so it's mostly betrayed spouses. Many have openly admitted their part in the marriage only to be told that they weren't really that bad by a group of posters who don't know anything about them.

If it was mostly cheaters complaining that would be a different story.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> Hi @calvin ,
> 
> Yep, I have thoughts.
> 
> ...


I re read this again Affaircare.
It makes more sense but....its hard to explain you really woukd have to know her.
I do think I have it all,CSS isnt bad at keeping things from me but once I find my gut tells me something is off I'm pretty good at getting details. 
Hence the interrogations over and over and I pay attention to detail.
And this has not just been with CSS.
It's going to be an expensive day but it will be worth it.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

How much trust do you guys put into a polygraph test?


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

It looks like Friday fir the test.
Five questions for $500?
I want at least 10 questions at the minimum. 
CSS wl check on that tomorrow. 
I really believe I have the truth but I need to be as sure as I can if I am going to do this.
CSS had very little self respect until I started dating her,then she slowly came around.
She told me I was a "Gentleman man" to her the other night.
Other men,not so much.
It started with her Mom.
That is the most Evil ***** I have ever ran across in my life. 
I feel for CSS, she has been through a lot.


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

Polygraph tests are not admissible as evidence in court. A very nervous person can fail even if they are telling the truth, and a pathological liar can pass because lying doesn’t cause any guilt or fear. I think it would help me decide if someone was being honest, but I would consider other factors as well.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

calvin said:


> How much trust do you guys put into a polygraph test?


Polygraphs are considered about 80% reliable, with it varying depending on the person being questioned.
The real value is the response the other person has to your suggestion of taking it. A person who has been honest about their betrayal or who has not betrayed will be willing to take it.
A person who really isn't being honest about their actions or has betrayed and is not being honest will not want to take the polygraph because of the risk it will indicate they are not being honest.

My guess is that your wife's willingness to drag you to a polygraph so she can take is a very good indicator of her level of honesty.


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

I think the polygraph is a useful tool, but it certainly can be wrong. A very experienced operator with law enforcement experience increases its effectiveness. In these situations it often pressures the wayward into a last minute parking lot confession.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Three to five questions is the max most are allowed.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

calvin said:


> I would like some answers on this.
> Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed?
> A spouse is the worst of course, a friend can be very bad as well as a family member or anyone you put your trust into.
> It seems some people just dont get the damage that has been done.
> ...


Sorry you are feeling so hurt Calvin. No regular person would want you to be hurting, so of course people who care for you would rather that you move forward than wallow in a situation that will continue to cause you pain.
It is better to let go of people who don't love you then to hold on to them like grim death when they would rather not be with you.
Marriage is not ownership, two people have to be committed to each other through the ups and downs for it to work. 
I'm sorry that your wife is not committed to your marriage and that must hurt...but I can assure you that there is worse pain then finding out you've been with the wrong person.
The silver lining of adultery is that you are free. 
You wouldn't want to live your life with a person who did not love you; did not want to be with you but stayed because of obligation, right? White knuckling a marriage sounds awful.
Let her go.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

A lot depends on the skill of the examiner. The result may be correct but it also may be incorrect.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Oh and Down ny the River.
I wanted to say this.
Again,you dont know Jack.
You dont know how I found her barely clinging to life on April 24th at 4:30am on a Saturday I, usually work Saturdays, every single one for 26 years while she stayed home with the kids.
After she got I'll I missed a ton of work...3...4 months,My son and were the only ones to take care of her.
I pulled a lot of strings to get her into better hospitals, I did everything at home,I put thousands of miles visiting her,spending some nights with her when they would let me,taken taken her to all all her appointments, I clean, do dishes....you name it.
I laid in bed crying for many night while she was gone,prayed dam5 ass off.
So yeah.....its all about the money.
Get out of here snd stay out please.
You have no clue.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Now you guys make me wonder if the polybis worth it.
She has no problem with it.
She is ready.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

calvin said:


> Five questions for $500?
> I want at least 10 questions at the minimum.


A way of stretching this out would be to put together a questionaire, have her answer the questions on it, and then have the examiner ask her if she answered the questionaire truthfully. That way, you only expend one question, while gaining the info that you desire..


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

calvin said:


> Oh and Down ny the River.
> I wanted to say this.
> Again,you dont know Jack.
> You dont know how I found her barely clinging to life on April 24th at 4:30am on a Saturday I, usually work Saturdays, every single one for 26 years while she stayed home with the kids.
> ...


I even almost got kicked out of Indiana University Hospital fighting with two security guards who were a lot bigger than me while I demanded she get new test.
A doctor overheard me,took compassion and ordered the test.
Sure enough, they were wrong.
They were going by the old test from another hospital.
Money?
Yeah.....that's what I want.
Gimme money,whole lots of money.
That's what I want.
6 months she was gone from home.
I want my wife and family.
I want my life back.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

harperlee said:


> Sorry you are feeling so hurt Calvin. No regular person would want you to be hurting, so of course people who care for you would rather that you move forward than wallow in a situation that will continue to cause you pain.
> It is better to let go of people who don't love you then to hold on to them like grim death when they would rather not be with you.
> Marriage is not ownership, two people have to be committed to each other through the ups and downs for it to work.
> I'm sorry that your wife is not committed to your marriage and that must hurt...but I can assure you that there is worse pain then finding out you've been with the wrong person.
> ...


 Happer,I dont know that yet.
It will take way to much time to explain all this.
I white Knuckle anything.
Only one has control of my life,that be me.
That being said I have not made up my mind.
I am slightly leaning towards R.
I'm far from being all on.
My choices are still there.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do just yet.
I need more time to gather some things, think and come up with a informed decision. 
I'm done bouncing around. 
I'll tackle this,I know I will.
Whichever way it goes.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

harperlee said:


> Sorry you are feeling so hurt Calvin. No regular person would want you to be hurting, so of course people who care for you would rather that you move forward than wallow in a situation that will continue to cause you pain.
> It is better to let go of people who don't love you then to hold on to them like grim death when they would rather not be with you.
> Marriage is not ownership, two people have to be committed to each other through the ups and downs for it to work.
> I'm sorry that your wife is not committed to your marriage and that must hurt...but I can assure you that there is worse pain then finding out you've been with the wrong person.
> ...


I normally don't post here because I am the WS but you are so very wrong. I do love my husband and you saying I neve loved him is crap. You have no idea what you are talking about. You do not know the story. I was violated 28 years ago by the other man. I was afraid to tell anyone. Calvin feels betrayed because I did not ever tell him. I'm not going to explain anymore. I'm just going to put you on ignore.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

CantSitStill said:


> I normally don't post here because I am the WS but you are so very wrong. I do love my husband and you saying I neve loved him is crap. You have no idea what you are talking about. You do not know the story. I was violated 28 years ago by the other man. I was afraid to tell anyone. Calvin feels betrayed because I did not ever tell him. I'm not going to explain anymore. I'm just going to put you on ignore.


It's not uncommon for a woman to be violated and then black-mailed into continuing the violation if the violator knows that she will be fearful of being exposed.


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## harperlee (May 1, 2018)

CantSitStill said:


> I normally don't post here because I am the WS but you are so very wrong. I do love my husband and you saying I neve loved him is crap. You have no idea what you are talking about. You do not know the story. I was violated 28 years ago by the other man. I was afraid to tell anyone. Calvin feels betrayed because I did not ever tell him. I'm not going to explain anymore. I'm just going to put you on ignore.


You are 100% correct, I don't know the story. My opinion stands in general. You know that I don't know the back story but still decided to be nasty. I do know a bit more about you now.
Good luck Calvin.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

calvin said:


> How much trust do you guys put into a polygraph test?


It has caught many a sex offender at my office in lies( verified). We have 60+ a year in my office. It is not useful if person has multiple personalities, is a sociopath, dementia or on psych meds. The meds will skew results but the polygrapher should be able to tell you the person is on something.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

calvin said:


> It looks like Friday fir the test.
> Five questions for $500?
> I want at least 10 questions at the minimum.
> CSS wl check on that tomorrow.
> ...


Our polygrapher asks 3 questions to the sex offenders. The more questions you ask the less accurate the poly becomes. Think of questions that can cover multiple questions you have. 

Ex. Other than the two Calvin knows about have you engaged in any type of sexual activity with any one else since being with Calvin.

Ex Did you enjoy having sex with xxx?

Dont think one would enjoy a rape, if it was truly a rape. 

Ex. Did you willfully have sex with xxx?

We have parolees complete a sex history questionaire and are asked if it is true and correct. If there is no deception, then they answered all the questions on the questionnaire truthfully. A few who did not pass, later admitted to other victims they were hiding.

You could write down several questions and polygrapher could just ask if she answered all questions truthfully and fully.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

If you were in DFW metroplex or Houston I could refer you to a polygrapher. The ones we use are from Dallas. There is a retired FBI agent doing them in Houston area.


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## Savannah01 (Sep 8, 2021)

calvin said:


> But the sex and other physical forms of intimacy are sacred and ment for the one you choose to marry.
> If you want to back out of a commitment then do it with dignity.
> Dont go and **** someone else.
> No matter what ......it ....is....wrong.


Even emotional intimacy if you are married /committed is reserved for your spouse/Partner alone but a lot of times even in my case emotional intimacy came in to play which is also a form of betrayal it’s not an easy Pill to swallow when you find out the one person who is supposed to know boundaries within your relationship it’s the one breaking it it hits hard and it shakes you to the core


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I read a bit of the backstory, which I almost never do....

If this has been haunting you for this long, what is your end goal? What result do you think will bring you inner peace and happiness? A polygraph? Stoning? 

I am not trying to be smug, just trying to understand what you hope to be the positive end result...


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> It has caught many a sex offender at my office in lies( verified). We have 60+ a year in my office. It is not useful if person has multiple personalities, is a sociopath, dementia or on psych meds. The meds will skew results but the polygrapher should be able to tell you the person is on something.


I do take xanax every day for my anxiety. I'm also on pain meds. Is that gonna mess up the test?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CantSitStill said:


> I do take xanax every day for my anxiety. I'm also on pain meds. Is that gonna mess up the test?


Honestly, probably. Can you guys put in a call to the tester and ask?


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> I read a bit of the backstory, which I almost never do....
> 
> If this has been haunting you for this long, what is your end goal? What result do you think will bring you inner peace and happiness? A polygraph? Stoning?
> 
> I am not trying to be smug, just trying to understand what you hope to be the positive end result...


I have a polygraph set for next week 
Calvin asked me to change the date. Hopefully the polygraph will tell him I am not lying about anything. What I hope for is after helping Calvin through this trauma that I kept from him. BTW I was too afraid to tell him. Anyway, lots of IC for both of us and to do whatever Calvin needs to help him. My hope is for forgiveness someday. My love for him has not changed. His trust in me has changed. We shall see what happens


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CantSitStill said:


> I do take xanax every day for my anxiety. I'm also on pain meds. Is that gonna mess up the test?


It needs to be brought up to polygrapher before to see if you need to not take it morning of.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

I believe drugs and certain meds can affect a lie detector test. I used to watch the Jeremy Kyle show lol, here in the UK, and he had people on the show doing lie detector tests. Some lie detectors got cancelled because the person took loads of drugs, alcohol the night before. Someone with certain pain conditions, Health conditions, pregnant, on certain meds, violent, signs of domestic abuse, mental illnesses etc got cancelled. Best to discuss anything and everything that may affect the lie detector with the person doing it. They may advise you to stop certain meds a certain amount of time before testing you. Lie detectors have improved a lot but best to discuss with the professional before you go ahead, so it's not a waste of money. Wishing you both the best.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> It needs to be brought up to polygrapher before to see if you need to not take it morning of.


Umm if I don't take it. I will have panic attacks the whole ride there. Whenever Calvin gets on the expressway I cry and shake and this is with me on xanax. I will call the guy and ask him about it. I cannot imagine not taking it. I may land up a total mess during the test.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Umm if I don't take it. I will have panic attacks the whole ride there. Whenever Calvin gets on the expressway I cry and shake and this is with me on xanax. I will call the guy and ask him about it. I cannot imagine not taking it. I may land up a total mess during the test.


Oh and thank you for your help and answering me. 🙂


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> I believe drugs and certain meds can affect a lie detector test. I used to watch the Jeremy Kyle show lol, here in the UK, and he had people on the show doing lie detector tests. Some lie detectors got cancelled because the person took loads of drugs, alcohol the night before. Someone with certain pain conditions, Health conditions, pregnant, on certain meds, violent, signs of domestic abuse, mental illnesses etc got cancelled. Best to discuss anything and everything that may affect the lie detector with the person doing it. They may advise you to stop certain meds a certain amount of time before testing you. Lie detectors have improved a lot but best to discuss with the professional before you go ahead, so it's not a waste of money. Wishing you both the best.


Thank you. I need to call him in the morning. I told him about my brain damage but didn't think to tell him about my medication's.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> I believe drugs and certain meds can affect a lie detector test. I used to watch the Jeremy Kyle show lol, here in the UK, and he had people on the show doing lie detector tests. Some lie detectors got cancelled because the person took loads of drugs, alcohol the night before. Someone with certain pain conditions, Health conditions, pregnant, on certain meds, violent, signs of domestic abuse, mental illnesses etc got cancelled. Best to discuss anything and everything that may affect the lie detector with the person doing it. They may advise you to stop certain meds a certain amount of time before testing you. Lie detectors have improved a lot but best to discuss with the professional before you go ahead, so it's not a waste of money. Wishing you both the best.


I did tell him on the phone about the rape and he has no problem with that. I told him I have high anxiety and he said everyone gets anxiety when taking the test.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

CantSitStill said:


> Thank you. I need to call him in the morning. I told him about my brain damage but didn't think to tell him about my medication's.


I also have brain damage from a brain tumour I had removed in 2001. I'm also blind on left peripheral vision, and the brain fog is debilitating. Do you have any brain fog, does your whole body jump/twitch at times? Like you had an electric shock. Also I'm on pain meds and antidepressants for mental illnesses and know I wouldn't be suitable for a lie detector test, because of the random body movements and medication, Health issues. My heart also goes fast at times for no reason. Sadly not everyone is suitable for lie detector tests. Make sure the person is professional and doesn't rip you off your money. Do your research on your health conditions and lie detector tests, and what to expect.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

That's good you've already spoke to him about some stuff and he's said it's OK.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> I also have brain damage from a brain tumour I had removed in 2001. I'm also blind on left peripheral vision, and the brain fog is debilitating. Do you have any brain fog, does your whole body jump/twitch at times? Like you had an electric shock. Also I'm on pain meds and antidepressants for mental illnesses and know I wouldn't be suitable for a lie detector test, because of the random body movements and medication, Health issues. My heart also goes fast at times for no reason. Sadly not everyone is suitable for lie detector tests. Make sure the person is professional and doesn't rip you off your money. Do your research on your health conditions and lie detector tests, and what to expect.


No just dizziness at times and my left leg goes numb a lot. I figit a lot but have always been that way. The dizziness and numbness is from since I've come home from hospitalization. As for my eyes, I have a lazy eye. Always have had it. I sometimes wonder if I could pass a sobriety test 🤣. I don't drink alcohol anymore. It makes me throw up ever since I came home. I'm doing ok with my cognitive skills but have trouble sometimes remembering what things are called for instance I could not think of the word pot holder and other things. It drives me crazy when I can't think of what normal things are called. I cannot drive yet. Was hospitalized for 6 months. I feel I could drive but hubby and son say I'm not quite there yet.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

calvin said:


> I white Knuckle anything.


Calvin,

First, I really feel for you in your situation. I was betrayed too.

Obviously you don't owe me or any of us an answer.

I feel you need to look into why you white knuckle things, with a counselor, and work on addressing and resolving this as it's not a good way to cope with issues and problems in life, regardless of what the problem or issue is.

In many instances, white knuckling things adds to one's problems, it makes them worse, it increases one's anxiety etc.

I wish you well on your path forward.

Take care


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Calvin,
> 
> First, I really feel for you in your situation. I was betrayed too.
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

They don’t care. The biggest problem I see is the betrayed not getting it.
It’s the I love them so thy must love me too theme. Nope, it doesn’t work that way.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> I read a bit of the backstory, which I almost never do....
> 
> If this has been haunting you for this long, what is your end goal? What result do you think will bring you inner peace and happiness? A polygraph? Stoning?
> 
> I am not trying to be smug, just trying to understand what you hope to be the positive end result...


 I'm not sure yet.
I wait, do IC and bide my time.
The pinball game in my head is over.
I think logical,always have but feelings get in the way of that, especially after her in the hospitals for so long.
Thank God she is coming along pretty well and healing just fine.
Do I stay or do I go now?
"Its always trase,tease,tease,so if you want me off your back".....lol,good tune by The Clash.
Sense of humor coming back finally. 
Time is my friend.
If it takes a month or six...or a damn year,that's fine.
We will see.
IC in a few days and the poly next Friday. 
This **** is a pain in the ass.
It's been seven weeks.
I'm just now starting to get a grip.
We will see I guess.
No matter which way things go I'll be happy again. 
I'm realizing that now and that I do have a lot of control over all this.
I'm not going to be wrecked in the head anymore.
I control what I can and leave the rest up to God. 
And her, see how serious she is with her actions.
But I'm feeling a little better than ok about me.
And just me right now.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Calvin's compassionate side wants to reconcile with his wife.

His unforgiving, inner judge will not have any of it.

The judge must bend, rescind his holding order, or be asked to list his demands for his wife's release.

Per, the judge (and jailer), what must occur for the wife to be released from bondage?

_I do not know_ is not an answer.

The judge must be deposed. 
He needs to submit his findings via deposition.

The answer lies within you, Calvin.



_Nemesis-_


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

calvin said:


> Time is my friend.


Calvin,

I liked all of your post, except for that.

Time is no one's friend. None of us are guaranteed tomorrow. People die daily, car accidents and on and on.

One should never think time is their friend.

Children die daily.

Time is not your friend, it's not a friend to any of us.

It's so limited, we can't get more of it and we never know when our sand will run out.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

What if all her answers come back as being dishonest, would you believe the results? I'm hoping you get the answers you want from the polygraph, so you can both move forward together or separately. This is a sad story and why I hate infidelity. It destroys people in many many ways. Wishing you both the best.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Calvin,
> 
> I liked all of your post, except for that.
> 
> ...


I agree all the way A1....we take a chance every single day we roll out of bed.
I could meet death on the mill tomorrow, the highway getting there or even carjacked.
Yet I have to TREAT this situation like time is on my side.
If I dont I will make the wrong choice and regret it the rest of my life.....lifeish,?
I've had a decent ride,I'm ok with going.
Not just yet but it's all good.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> What if all her answers come back as being dishonest, would you believe the results? I'm hoping you get the answers you want from the polygraph, so you can both move forward together or separately. This is a sad story and why I hate infidelity. It destroys people in many many ways. Wishing you both the best.


All?
Then I guess I'm done.
No I am not sure if I would believe all the results but there has to be a base line there somewhere.
It will depend on which questions come up as false. 
And if she passes with flying colors I will feel better but not confident.
I guess this is a game day decision after I get the results.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

harperlee said:


> Sorry you are feeling so hurt Calvin. No regular person would want you to be hurting, so of course people who care for you would rather that you move forward than wallow in a situation that will continue to cause you pain.
> It is better to let go of people who don't love you then to hold on to them like grim death when they would rather not be with you.
> Marriage is not ownership, two people have to be committed to each other through the ups and downs for it to work.
> I'm sorry that your wife is not committed to your marriage and that must hurt...but I can assure you that there is worse pain then finding out you've been with the wrong person.
> ...


I am committed to Calvin and our marriage and am very remorseful for the pain I caused. I do love him and want to do everything and anything to help him heal.


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## 24NitroglyceriN26 (11 mo ago)

calvin said:


> I would like some answers on this.
> Why do some people not understand the pain of being betrayed?
> A spouse is the worst of course, a friend can be very bad as well as a family member or anyone you put your trust into.
> It seems some people just dont get the damage that has been done.
> ...


It is a deep wound once it is done cutting and I don't know how you could get better without experience. Thought I would say I hope you fare well


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