# Those who stayed/tried to after being cheated on, what has been the pesonal toll.



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

We never hear this part of the story and no one ever warns people who are thinking of R what this will mean in this way. So honestly what do you think staying has done to you, your self image, your self worth, self confidence, friends, family, kids, your health ...

PS I see I missed and R in the title, (Freudian slip?)


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm not sure how to answer this, how to separate my 'self worth' into pieces. Because that's what you're asking. My self image/worth/confidence has always been pretty healthy but took a nose dive right after D day. No matter whether you stay together or not, anyone who gets cheated on is going to wonder if it was because of something in them. But I'd say today it's better even than it was 7 years ago before he cheated. But I credit that to my age more than anything - the older I get the better it is, really. 

My friends, family, kids and health didn't suffer much if at all. I'v always been pretty independent, my kids were older and being a single mom wasn't new to me. Once I let him move home they were pretty much happy for us. 

I don't think there are any scars hanging around now for me. I haven't triggered in probably a year? Two? I don't even remember. And that is despite hanging around on TAM  Don't get me wrong - I suffered horribly right after D day, but being one of the lucky extremely rare few who actually has a truly remorseful spouse was what did it for me. If I'd been married to most of the WS's I read about on TAM we would have never in a million years gotten back together after I kicked his ass to the curb.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I stayed and we worked to recover our marriage after finding out that my husband cheated. We both used the MB material and it went very well. 

There really was no personal toll. The damage was done when he cheated. The recovery was healing and helped me to deal with it.

But there were issues that were beyond his cheating. Basically, I think he had a nervous breakdown a few years later related other issues in his life that had nothing to do with me or our marriage. After years of trying to get him to deal with those issues I finally divorced him. If this had not happened we would probably still be married today.

We are still friends. I helped him start a business which he still works. I still help him some with his business. And he helps me when I need things... like when I got out of the hospital last year and needed someone there with me most of the time.

I know a lot of people who have recovered their marriage after infidelity. In talking with several of them about this they basically say that the infidelity was in the past, they worked through it and have worked on things so that they now have very good/strong marriages/relationships.

Infidelity is bad. But it's not the worse thing that a person can do to their spouse... try living with someone who is physically violent.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

To address the self worth issue... his infidelty does not affect my self worth. He did it. Not me. My worth does not change because he did something stupid/horrible.

My first husband cheated as well. By the time I found out that he had cheated, I could care less. He was a mean, abuisve (physical and emotional/verbal) and all I wanted was to get me and my son away from him. His cheating was a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of his behavior.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sorry about posting in 3 segments. I keep re-reading the posts above mine and more things come to mind.


sokillme said:


> We never hear this part of the story and no one ever warns people who are thinking of R what this will mean in this way. So honestly what do you think staying has done to you, your self image, your self worth, self confidence, friends, family, kids, your health ...


Staying did not harm me in any way. It did not harm any of the things you listed above. If anything I am stronger and know that I can handle any **** that life throws me. And I can handle it with grace.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> And he helps me when I need things... like when I got out of the hospital last year and needed someone there with me most of the time.


Despite what happened I'm glad he is there for you, when you are in need as you are there for him.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

For me, staying and trying has given me closure on the infidelity. It means that the strongest, most recent memory I have of my husband is of someone who stood by my side again and tried - to repair the damage, to address my questions, to help me heal. It has been about allowing mutual vulnerability - so some kind of trust can re-develop. Which is particularly important when you have children. So whether we stay together or not, I think that all those have been beneficial - to my sense of self-worth, health and family.

I do think that the offending partner has to be committed to trying as well, and willing to face up to what they did. I can't see that living in some kind of semi-armed truce would be useful. I can also understand that sometimes the betrayal is so egregious and the damage so great, that the betrayed would heal quicker alone. That has to be their call. There should be no shame or blame attached to deciding either way for yourself.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

In some ways it strengthens you, it took its toll on me later when I had time to really look inwards and combined with his alcoholism and stress of constantly moving. Now I can safely say, if he did it again, I know I would be ok, I know I wouldn't blame me, and I know I would walk away.

The major downside is that you never look at them again in the same way, they are forever flawed, (but aren't we all as human beings) but for me there is no guilt, I often think, he is bloody lucky to have me. I mourned us for many years, it was a deep grief. Perhaps we are building something new, only time will tell.

In ways, I think I have lowered my expectations of him and tend to find happiness in my own self, in what I do and whom I am friends with. We get on well but I doubt if I will ever love him the way I did, that is the price we both paid. In the past I would worry and be upset if things were bothering him about work, family etc. Now I empathize but just move on thinking to myself, you are a big boy you can handle it. I no longer put him first the way I used to, if it suits me yes, if not then I don't. Maybe I have settled, but I am happy enough the way things are.


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## fleek (Jul 20, 2016)

aine said:


> In some ways it strengthens you, it took its toll on me later when I had time to really look inwards and combined with his alcoholism and stress of constantly moving. Now I can safely say, if he did it again, I know I would be ok, I know I wouldn't blame me, and I know I would walk away.
> 
> The major downside is that you never look at them again in the same way, they are forever flawed, (but aren't we all as human beings) but for me there is no guilt, I often think, he is bloody lucky to have me. I mourned us for many years, it was a deep grief. Perhaps we are building something new, only time will tell.
> 
> In ways, I think I have lowered my expectations of him and tend to find happiness in my own self, in what I do and whom I am friends with. We get on well but I doubt if I will ever love him the way I did, that is the price we both paid. In the past I would worry and be upset if things were bothering him about work, family etc. Now I empathize but just move on thinking to myself, you are a big boy you can handle it. I no longer put him first the way I used to, if it suits me yes, if not then I don't. Maybe I have settled, but I am happy enough the way things are.


This awesome post is spot on. 

I had some self esteem\self confidence issues in the immediate aftermath. I did some foolish things that I thought would help me regain them. I put my WW through hell and made her prove herself to me. There was no pick me dancing or being an easy plan B. She is in many ways a different person now. I too learned I needed to do some self-introspection and figure out how I was going to cope with what had happened. I think I have grown as a person and I know I can deal with whatever life throws at me. My mettle has been tested and I made it through. In an odd way, I think it has given me more self-confidence and esteem. I don't derive my self-worth from my wife and I never have. I am much more aware of relationships with my children, friends, and extended family. I appreciate these relationships a great deal more now and I handle them with care. I don't get involved in other folks' drama anymore. I have more than enough of my own. I've become more understanding, patient, and caring. Maybe I'm just getting older. 

Like aine, I have mourned the "what could have been". I don't "love" or respect my wife like I used too. I don't need her either. I know I would be fine without her. I know I wouldn't be forever alone if I choose to divorce her. I have some lingering resentment for the turmoil she chose to insert into our lives. I am a bit conflicted about staying and I wonder if I'm settling. I consider my options often. More nowadays since the nest is almost empty. There is no easy path after infidelity. I do think divorce would have been easier for me. If I had a "do over" I would have divorced immediately and not put myself through this ordeal. Now that some work has been done by us both, it's much more complex.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I now realise that many of the issues in my marriage relate to my wife's health issues rsther than her cheating.

Although I suspect that her cheating was related to the health issues.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Wow this is a hard question to answer without writing out a novel! I have typed and deleted over and over, geesh. 

Short answer...The last ten years of my marriage was lived under a cloud of suspicion and apathy. Even though I knew I was a good man 100% committed to my wife and my family in the back of my mind I had this doubt that I had done or must be doing something wrong. I kept my eyes open and saw more bad behavior on her part but kept my mouth shut because I was tired of trying to argue, and I kept doubting my own thinking.

In the end most of her friends turned against her, part of her family also, even her parents came to me and thanked me for putting up with her as long as I did. That's when I realized I wasn't the one that was ****ed up, it was her. And that made me very sorry I didn't divorce many years sooner, I was ashamed at myself for enduring all those years of misery. 

Long term it did change me. I am confident in myself and in my philosophies, yet seem to almost expect to be disappointed by the people in my life. I have found it's simply easier to lower my expectations.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Interesting responses.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Well it completely killed my ego, my health. I'm absolutely sure women deal with WS differently that do men.
Personal toll....years of questioning her texting and leaving has made me completely apathetic about our relationship.
The trickle truth is the killer!


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

At the risk of commenting while still early in the process. One thing I do think is helpful to me is that by considering reconciliation I feel like I will be able to tell my children in the future (regardless of how it works out) that I did not act rashly. 

My wife was rash in her behavior. I feel good that I am not reacting too quickly in return. Best case, things work out. Worst case, when my kids are in tears down the road they can at least trust that their Dad tried his best for their sake. I don't know, maybe that's selfish, like I'm trying to build myself up while tearing her down -- but I trust that that's just the reality of her actions. I'm not trying to make it worse, and I do think it will be helpful to my kids to know that I spent A LOT of time thinking about the best course of action.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

hasn't made a damn bit of difference to me. i dont really have any self confidence issues when it comes to relationships. i never have. i dont view people in terms of "good enough" or "not good enough", however. i dont think of people or myself as good or bad.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> We never hear this part of the story and no one ever warns people who are thinking of R what this will mean in this way. So honestly what do you think staying has done to you, your self image, your self worth, self confidence, friends, family, kids, your health ...
> 
> PS I see I missed and R in the title, (Freudian slip?)


I looked at a few of your threads but couldn't determine if you have been cheated on.

Has it happened to you? I can tell you have seen it around you, probably several times.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> I looked at a few of your threads but couldn't determine if you have been cheated on.
> 
> Has it happened to you? I can tell you have seen it around you, probably several times.


if memory serves, he has only been cheated on by a fiance/girlfriend, whom he left. 
he has never been cheated on by a spouse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thought provoking thread BTW.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

After 5 and a half years in R, I would say in many ways we have a better marriage. But there is one negative aspect that still lingers. 

I call it an "emotional ceiling" - for affection and romantic feelings toward my WS. Not a devastating thing necessarily, but it remains none the less. I guess we've both gotten used to it by now.

I'm pretty sure there are other BS's in R that know what I'm talking about.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> if memory serves, he has only been cheated on by a fiance/girlfriend, whom he left.
> he has never been cheated on by a spouse.


He was the child of a marriage broken up by a serial father which had significant consequences on him growing up which came to a head with the discovery of the cheating fiancé. So I'd say he's had some experience, yeah.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sokillme said:


> We never hear this part of the story and no one ever warns people who are thinking of R what this will mean in this way. So honestly what do you think staying has done to you, your self image, your self worth, self confidence, friends, family, kids, your health ...


I didn't R because I had a remorseless spouse at the time. I did what I thought was the best route for me because after dealing with this situation for a whole month after d-day, it was too much for me to handle. I knew I couldn't stay if he was still cheating and his love for me was gone. He did try to leave his AP, but his promises fell short and he broke the no contact rule and answered her call. I knew immediately this had happened when he came home from work. I had no experience in forums or help, but I did most of the right things. I exposed to family and friends, I demanded no contact, got all passwords and access to phone, and set him free when he broke the no contact boundary. 

I do have personal experience on the flip side through one of my sisters though. Her husband cheated and she stayed with him. One of her kids, the boy turned out to be a serial cheater like his dad. The 2 girls on the other hand, are much well rounded and stronger than the boy. I think that is partly due to the culture we were born into too. Not just the fact that my sister stayed with a cheating spouse for the sake of many reasons, the children being at the top of the list. When the kids grew up, she did leave him because he never stopped cheating. He was the type that wanted his cake and to eat it too. 

He would beg and plead each time he got caught and to everyone that wasn't the immediate family, he fooled into them thinking he was such a devoted husband and father. It was the farthest thing from the truth, but he never intended on leaving my sister or his kids. He just needed his side piece to be completely happy. So she left him when she felt the time was right for everyone. 

My sister and I had the same choices to make after we were cheated on. We took different paths. I don't think either one of us made a mistake per say. We did what we thought we could and had to do at the time with the knowledge we had then as well. 

My self esteem took a dive for about 2 weeks, but then when anger hit, I knew who owned all the **** and it was not me for sure. My sister did the same when she stayed with her WS. In both our marriages, the children were hurt the worst. I have a commitment phobic son that does not want to ever have children even though he loves them. I have a daughter that did what I thought was the right thing and married, had children, but then cheated on her husband and treats him poorly even though she swears she loves him. 

*What I see now through my children after 14 years of being divorced from their father, are the ripple effects of the demise of our marriage and also the mistakes we made as a couple living in a dysfunctional marriage even though we thought we were happily married.* Our relationships affect other people in either a negative or positive way (our children). We weren't the epitome of a great marriage. WE were flawed even before infidelity became the last straw. Just because we stay married and love our spouses and are faithful doesn't mean we don't harm our children with the dynamic of our relationship. Most marriages are not perfect, and children live in that environment and use it to model their relationships when they grow up. 

My X detached from me years before he cheated. That was a huge mistake I failed to see when I could have done something about it. I see it very clearly with the way my daughter treats her husband, but he, like I, can't see it right now. He will though. Their marriage is dysfunctional and that is what most of us when married fail to understand.

My X cheating was just the last straw and one I couldn't deal with because I could accept being replaced by my children, I couldn't accept being replaced by OW. That was a deal breaker for me.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Betrayed by an EA for 10 years, which most likely became physical between October 2015 and December 2016. This was an ex gf. 

Asked an old flame for nude pictures of her breasts around 10 years ago.

Took a condom on a work trip with him maybe 5 years ago “as a joke”

Messages with a girl on MySpace asking what he could give her that other men could not. This was roughly 10 years ago as well. 

All women of different ethnicities.

So the personal toll? My self esteem is in the gutter. Little known fact about me on this board, I have breast implants. So my breasts are rather perky and nice, even though I’ve had 3 children (2 of them born after breast implant surgery). Since my husband asked for a picture of another womans breasts, it makes me believe that mine aren’t “good enough” for him. I hate that I have to have “fake breasts” in order to be close to the size that he enjoys. I often wonder if that’s WHY mine weren’t good enough. Because they aren’t real. It’s a double edged sword. I like the implants because they make me feel womanly (I was completely flat before surgery and I felt boyish – my body is very boxy) but on the other hand I hate them because while they LOOK very natural – most women are shocked when I tell them I have them – they certainly don’t move or feel natural and I often wonder if that’s why he “needed” to look somewhere else for them. I cannot stand to watch a movie where a woman’s breasts are shown. It’s an instant trigger for me, my mood immediately goes south and I immediately feel insecure. 

I wonder often if he couldn’t leave the ex alone because she’s better than me? Or if it’s because she’s different. Is it his past (her being around when his dad died) or do they have some connection that he just never felt he had with me? I’m not religious but I wonder a lot that if there is a God, why he would give me someone who wanted someone else. I wonder if it’s my karma for any bad thing I’ve ever done in my life. I wonder all the time if I’m plan B. I wonder if I left how long it would take him to go to her. I wonder if he thinks of her when we have sex. I wonder if he wishes his child was with her instead of me. I often wonder why I had to have such a strong attraction to him from the day I met him, what was the point of putting this man in my life when he didn’t want just ME. Why do I deserve that. 

I hate when he leaves the house. Even for work. During the work day was when he would sneak and see her. He drives a lot for work so to visit her during the day, even though she lives 2 hours away, was easy for him to get away with without me being suspicious. I want him to get a different job where he works in an office Monday through Friday 8-5 and can’t leave work without taking a personal day, at a place where I can drive by and check that he’s there. How sad is that? Every time he says he has to go to work early, I trigger. That’s what he’d do – say he had to go to work early for a meeting, get there at 6, work until 10 and then take a half day vacation to be at her house by noon, stay for 2 hours, drive back home two hours and be home before I got there so I wouldn’t know. His company is currently going through a merger. So he has training an hour away at 8AM a couple of times a week. I can verify that’s where he is – but guess what happens every single time he tells me he has to leave early? I hate his job. I can’t be proud of the position that he got anymore. Because being proud of it means that I’m proud he can travel around ‘undetected’ all day. 

I am suspicious of anyone and anything. I cannot see a beautiful woman of any other descent than white without wondering if my husband finds her attractive. Because all of his indescretions have been with women with darker skin tones – mixed white and black, Indian, Latina. I’m as white as white comes so obviously my lack of melanin isn’t enough to keep him happy. 

I feel more hatred towards the main AP then I would imagine is healthy and I worry about that. What it makes me as a person, not to mention it scares me. There are times when I understand why people kill their spouses AP when they catch them. I don’t know if it’s a real feeling or if I would feel differently if it actually happened, but there are times I truly wish she’d get hit by a bus. I don’t like feeling that way. I feel like that makes me scum. Unstable. Just not a good person. I do not see her in person often. And I haven’t since the latest go round of this in December. My heart starts racing when I see a PICTURE of her on social media. I don’t know if I could be responsible for my actions if I saw her in person. I’m honestly afraid of what I might do. My anger is incredibly misplaced, however, I don’t really know what to do about it. 

I bounce back and forth between wishing he loved me and not giving a f*** about him. I finally stopped crying every day about 2 weeks ago. Maybe less. There are times when I feel so much love for him it’s overwhelming. It will physically hurt my chest and I’ll go in and lay my head on his chest and cover him in kisses just to be close to him. But sometimes, all of that crashes down when I think about everything, and I’ll get sick to my stomach and have to walk away. 

Every time we argue, I think he’s going to leave. Sometimes I could care less if he did. Other times thinking about that crushes me. Just depends on the day. 

In short, this has completely f**ked me up. I haven’t gone into total detail of everything here because I feel like a hypocrite. But that’s my side of it. I’m pretty sure I’m off my rocker. I don’t know HOW to be happy any more. I don’t know how to trust love anymore. I don’t even know if it’s worth it anymore. Maybe someday I’ll know, but not now.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The personal toll for me is my inability to trust. It's gone. Luckily, I'm not interested in having another relationship because I wouldn't be able to trust if I did.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

JayOwen said:


> He was the child of a marriage broken up by a serial father which had significant consequences on him growing up which came to a head with the discovery of the cheating fiancé. So I'd say he's had some experience, yeah.


I wouldn't. 

The one the one thing he rails against the most is reconciliation, of which he has no experience.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> if memory serves, he has only been cheated on by a fiance/girlfriend, whom he left.
> he has never been cheated on by a spouse.


This true. I only tried to stay for a short time but it was too hard for me to do it. I didn't feel good about myself the sacrifices I was making. Plus the relationship had lost a lot of what made me want it in the first place. Stability was a big part of what I love about being in a relationship having grown up in an environment without a lot of it. There really was no chance. I ask because I wasn't able to do it, but so many seem to be able to.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> Betrayed by an EA for 10 years, which most likely became physical between October 2015 and December 2016. This was an ex gf.
> 
> Asked an old flame for nude pictures of her breasts around 10 years ago.
> 
> ...


My dear woman please go get some counseling. No other human being is worth this much pain, besides that this isn't all about him. Please help yourself if you haven't tried yet. Your life could be better, easier, happier then this.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> I wouldn't.
> 
> The one the one thing he rails against the most is reconciliation, of which he has no experience.


Typical someone doesn't' have the same opinion so you so you dismiss there experiences. But you do the same of those who do have tried to R and rail against it. So there is that.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Typical someone doesn't' have the same opinion so you so you dismiss there experiences. But you do the same of those who do have tried to R and rail against it. So there is that.


What I dismiss is your emotional reactions to the idea of reconciliation as YOUR emotional responses. The sacrifices that you see are not viewed the same way by others. Those of us who have successfully reconciled and are happy with our lot in life do not feel the same way about the idea of reconciliation that you do. 

There is nothing wrong with your disdain for the idea of R in the majority of the cases that you see here on TAM(I know that in some cases, you actually suggest reconciliation). the only time it becomes an issue is when you indicate that others should feel the way you do. Reconciliation is a very personal decision. If someone decides they want to attempt it, the best we can do is give them guidance on how to be successful at it. 

If they cannot do it, my suggestion will usually be divorce. 

I reconciled. Your thoughts on how I feel about myself are irrelevant and will probably be inaccurate. Especially considering my own personality. But I know what I did to reconcile and be happy with my decision. You have not experienced a successful R. 

Truth is, I find most of your relationship advice to be spot on, when it comes to how you suggest people resolve their issues. I would just like to see you extend that "how to" guidance to people who want to try R.

For most of it, you have demonstrated that already know the "how". You just don't seem to know that you know it. Or you do know, and your own feelings about R stop you from sharing it.

I'm not sure which.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sokillme said:


> This true. * I only tried to stay for a short time but it was too hard for me to do it. *


I think this is the part that makes some of us leave and some of us stay. My sister is very different from me. Our choices after being cheated on are a very good example of this. She tried to make it work with a serial cheater. I dumped mine the first time he did it. 

I'm with you on this one @sokillme, I don't have the stamina to stay for anyone, not even my precious kids once my spouse cheats. Please remember that I said only one of her kids is messed up, the other two are not because she stayed for their sake until they were old enough to understand that daddy was not worth it, and that mom knew this but stayed because it was better for all of them, not for mom per say (that is being extremely selfless, which I am not). 

Mine, on the other hand, were both very messed up. 

In other words, it's a gamble really and a very personal choice based on what we can and cannot tolerate. Just because one stays and reconciles doesn't mean we are better than the ones that see cheating as a deal breaker. It's a matter of what you can tolerate and what you cannot. I hold a grudge til death do us part; my sister is a very forgiving person0. She doesn't hold grudges for very long. 

Neither one of us was wrong, simply different. I understand why some of the BS here stay for years and also why some feel is better to just be set free and start new like I did.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I think this is the part that makes some of us leave and some of us stay. My sister is very different from me. Our choices after being cheated on are a very good example of this. She tried to make it work with a serial cheater. I dumped mine the first time he did it.
> 
> I'm with you on this one @sokillme, I don't have the stamina to stay for anyone, not even my precious kids once my spouse cheats. Please remember that I said only one of her kids is messed up, the other two are not because she stayed for their sake until they were old enough to understand that daddy was not worth it, and that mom knew this but stayed because it was better for all of them, not for mom per say (that is being extremely selfless, which I am not).
> 
> ...


It's really not the staying or leaving that does the damage, it's the cheating. It's the BS years of being disconnected because they are suffering and in pain. Also we also don't know what genetics plays into it, like with your daughter for instance, there is some thought that BLPD can carry through with the genes. Nature and nurture and all of that. It's hard to watch people who stay and then continue to wallow in the pain and be miserable, which so many seem to do. I really don't get the point of that. So many who stayed don't really seem very happy. They seem resigned. 

Like I said on other thread I read in Holland cheating in marriage is pretty commonplace. It's seen as a natural part of it. That is where we are going here and part of that is the lack of consequences for WS. More and more it's just like well of course your spouse cheated but they are sorry now. I don't think the lack of consistences is good for the institution of marriage. What's the point of even taking vows if you were never going to hold your spouse to them?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sokillme said:


> What's the point of even taking vows if you were never going to hold your spouse to them?


Because marriages are a complicated thing and black and white doesn't always work.

Let's take my situation for example. My children's father was a very loving and loyal partner until our first child was born. All of his love and attention went to the children and I was replaced and he started detaching from me. If I see the marriage vows as either black and white, then he didn't forsake all others for me. He forsake all others until the kids came and I was replaced for his attention and love. I was given crumbs to keep me silent and the worse part is that I accepted being replaced because I felt guilty for wanting attention which he should of never taken away from me. He should of given it to all of us, not just the kids. Sadly, this is very common in my culture. The children come first and it should never be that way. That creates a crack in the marriage which will eventually get bigger and bigger that the spouses can't come back to one another anymore and a third party finishes what was started so long ago.

The ideal situation in my case was nipping his detachment in the bud, but I didn't see it that way at the time and he didn't either. 

Honestly, cheating is a symptom that something is wrong. In my case the wrong started about 18 years earlier than when he cheated. We grew apart and there was no way he could come back to me once the kids grew up and didn't need him. He was vulnerable and easy prey for the third party to finish off what we both allowed to happen.

That is why cheating is not the deal breaker all the time. Now if the cheating is an exit affair (like in my X's case), then R is a deal breaker because the WS wants to unconsciously burn all the bridges because they are simply done. Humpty Dumpty can never be put back together again. Too much water under that bridge kind of thing.

And yes, there was illness in my first marriage, just like there is illness in my daughter's marriage as well. But there are other very severe issue too. Marriage is a gamble, and some win and others lose. There is no sure way to know if yours will last forever or not. Sadly mine was not going to be one that would last forever because there were too many issues that would eventually destroy it regardless of the love we once felt for each other. Love is not enough to sustain a marriage. Many things can alter its course and bring it to an end.


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## tryingtocopedad (Apr 11, 2017)

My wife told me that she would have preferred I beat her than cheated. It is something she can't recover or forgive me for. I don't understand her thought process, but I have to respect it. I guess what it comes down to is that sex is not just sex for a woman.


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## Mommy3girls (Jun 15, 2017)

I found out two weeks after our wedding that he had cheated two weeks before we had gotten married. I literally found out about the affair one week then found out I was pregnant the week after. it did some emotional damage because I used to be really jealous and I had finally let my guard down thinking in my head that I married this guy and that it was ok to fully trust him then I found out. He even went to the extreme to lave a voicemail for this girl giving her instructions on what to say if I was to call her. I felt so betrayed and like he thought I was stupid and would never find out. I decided to stay because he admitted to me that he wanted to get these other women thoughts out of his head before we were married. I also stayed because we had been together for 6 years when we got married and I found out I was pregnant while trying to cope with all this. He was extremely happy about the pregnancy and super supportive in helping me heal. He answered every question I had and was accountable for everywhere he went and who he was with. He tried really hard to get me to at least believe him even though I didn't trust him. We have now been married for 9 years we have had our ups and downs but I still have a hard time trusting him and still find myself questioning him constantly. I am with the other posters that said they love their significant other but not quite the same. Things changed, I matured a bit and I now believe love is mostly a choice than an a helpless emotion. One chooses who they stay in love with.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

I cheated myself. In an EA, and then a PA.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

tryingtocopedad said:


> My wife told me that she would have preferred I beat her than cheated. It is something she can't recover or forgive me for. I don't understand her thought process, but I have to respect it. I guess what it comes down to is that sex is not just sex for a woman.


that's because beating someone is not doing something behind their back. There is no lying to it. Just blatant disrespect. But doing something and lying about it, and often times gaslighting the BS or not copping to it - yeah, you can beat me physically but messing with someone mentally - worse. They need to be able to trust themselves and when they question everything their world caves in around them. 
Pretty easy to walk away from a beating and never see that person again or question your judgment in leaving them.


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## dmatters (Apr 19, 2017)

Well now

Besides the normal physical stuff(weight loss, sleep loss, etc.)

Loss of romantic connection or any other feelings which has made me more cynical.

Pleasure from sex is all physical, there is no attachment no bond really nothing but the release.
You don't know how much you miss making love to someone instead of just f**king, but I am a high frequency person so.

Living with the shell of the life you thought you were going to have can be a depressing thing, navigating the future family dynamic (grand kids, weddings etc) just add to it.

Overall just a breeding ground for a nice long winters depression.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> Reconciliation is a very personal decision. If someone decides they want to attempt it, the best we can do is give them guidance on how to be successful at it.


This cant be stressed enough, i mean is as personal as what flavor ice cream you prefer....stuff like that. Who is in any place but where you are to judge on a personal decision only you will have to live with. It's almost irrational to question R vs D, with exceptions involving physical harm or similar danger.
Am in R 4 years and doing pretty good, and judge me shallow all u want but one of the few reasons I decided to R was cause I love her and because she is a mighty fine, gorgeous woman (9 out of 10)....so there pretty lame huh? 
I wont deny R isnt for the faint of heart thou....

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I was never formally or informally offered the opportunity to stay by either of my covert cheating wives back in 1996 and in 2010-2012! 

It was either "Get Out" or "Let's try a 'trial separation'" ~ chiefly so that they could move their "hanky-panky" onto the home turf, all without the least bit of knowledge on my part! 

Independent investigation during each of the separations later confirmed the fact that both had been cheating on me "big-time!"*


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> This cant be stressed enough, i mean is as personal as what flavor ice cream you prefer....stuff like that. Who is in any place but where you are to judge on a personal decision only you will have to live with. It's almost irrational to question R vs D, with exceptions involving physical harm or similar danger.
> Am in R 4 years and doing pretty good, and judge me shallow all u want but one of the few reasons I decided to R was cause I love her and because she is a mighty fine, gorgeous woman (9 out of 10)....so there pretty lame huh?
> I wont deny R isnt for the faint of heart thou....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




I couldn't agree more with this post, it is a very personal decision that one may not divulge for privacy reasons of their own. How I know my wife and see her remorse nobody else can see, it's that simple. Just like @CantBelieveThis I love my wife very much. I also know that she loves me as shown by her actions towards me. I really struggled as to which path was best for me, even though all evidence pointed at divorce. However my choice was not that simple, and I can say now that even though the path I chose has been difficult and grueling, I am much happier and feeling at peace with my choice.


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

badmemory said:


> After 5 and a half years in R, I would say in many ways we have a better marriage. But there is one negative aspect that still lingers.
> 
> I call it an "emotional ceiling" - for affection and romantic feelings toward my WS. Not a devastating thing necessarily, but it remains none the less. I guess we've both gotten used to it by now.
> 
> I'm pretty sure there are other BS's in R that know what I'm talking about.


Spot on about the emotional ceiling. That's me. The romantic feelings are not there toward my (f)WS. I'm also 5.5 years in R, if you want to call it that, as all was rugswept. But I think the emotional ceiling would be there even if the A was NOT rugswept. Maybe to a lesser degree.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

tryingtocopedad said:


> My wife told me that she would have preferred I beat her than cheated. It is something she can't recover or forgive me for. I don't understand her thought process, but I have to respect it. I guess what it comes down to is that sex is not just sex for a woman.


Infidelity is emotional devastation. The very person you were supposed to spend your life with, share your life with, basically your other half are able to break that bond and share it with someone else, meanwhile sneaking around, lying, gas-lighting etc. How can that person ever be trusted again, an enemy may not do that to you, in fact an enemy one would know, a cheating spouse, one will never really know and never really trust again, how could they be trusted.
Sadly the cheating spouse is the one who is seriously flawed and in my opinion does not deserve to be in a marriage or have the comforts of a home, they are like a dog who you take care of but then turns around and bites you when spreading rabies when you least suspect it. I understand your wife completely, the fact that you don't understand shows you are severely lacking in empathy and perhaps it needs to happen to you so that you get it.
Did she leave you? Your lack of empathy is probably what did it, you cannot do the work necessary to help her heal if you cannot understand.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

tryingtocopedad said:


> My wife told me that she would have preferred I beat her than cheated. It is something she can't recover or forgive me for. I don't understand her thought process, but I have to respect it. I guess what it comes down to is that sex is not just sex for a woman.


Infidelity is emotional devastation. The very person you were supposed to spend your life with, share your life with, basically your other half are able to break that bond and share it with someone else, meanwhile sneaking around, lying, gas-lighting etc. How can that person ever be trusted again, an enemy may not do that to you, in fact an enemy one would know, a cheating spouse, one will never really know and never really trust again, how could they be trusted.
Sadly the cheating spouse is the one who is seriously flawed and in my opinion does not deserve to be in a marriage or have the comforts of a home, they are like a dog who you take care of but then turns around and bites you when spreading rabies when you least suspect it. I understand your wife completely, the fact that you don't understand shows you are severely lacking in empathy and perhaps it needs to happen to you so that you get it.
Did she leave you? Your lack of empathy is probably what did it, you cannot do the work necessary to help her heal if you cannot understand.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

dmatters said:


> Well now
> 
> Besides the normal physical stuff(weight loss, sleep loss, etc.)
> 
> ...


Why would *anyone* choose to live like this for the rest of their life? Let me guess - you're falling on the sword "for the kids." 

That's an excuse a lot of BS's use for staying in a bad marriage because the simple truth is that they're too *afraid* to get off their butts and move on to a better life. It's just SO much easier to play the martyr "for the kids" than to take the steps necessary to live a truly authentic life.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Like I said on other thread I read in Holland cheating in marriage is pretty commonplace. It's seen as a natural part of it.


So, if it's expected in Holland, does that mean most view marriage as "open" marriages? Does the cheating affect the BS as badly as it does in the U.S.? If expected, then the BS just has to eat it and keep on going with the marriage? Is divorce not common there? Just curious about what that article indicated if anything.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Complicated. Emotionally, I am 98% the person I was before. Maybe even 99%, but there is always that 1-2% that creeps in from time to time. I'm 6 years out from final D Day, and when my W went total no contact with her EA partner.

Sexually, it's tougher to tell. Our sex life has fallen off a cliff the last couple of years. I don't know if that is natural loss of drive, the fact she has gained a lot of weight since then, our ages, or if it's a delayed byproduct of the breakdown our marriage had back then. And to echo someone else's comments, sex for us is mostly just to get off, it's not a loving, tender thing very often at all. That's been true for many years.

Honestly, my wife and I have become closer friends, more compatible in a lot of ways, but have settled into more of a friend/roommate lifestyle. Not sure if this is how marriages naturally flow, or if it's a problem. I have never been a High D person, but 3-4x a month is a nice pace. Right now we are barely once a month. I don't have the desire that often, and when I do, it seems to be on days she isn't interested. That's really our issue right now - different from before....and I just don't know if it's related to the EA or if it's one of the other factors I mentioned. Probably one of those, actually.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I have seen so many who have gone through this , those who D and R. I can tell you my observations. 

Group A who looks like they won the prize but wonder if it was worth the cost. They talk the positives, but you catch them with that look in their eye when they think no one is looking.

Group B who are like dragons with treasure. Mine. No one takes from me. They tend to be control freaks who kick it up a notch. Phone calls thru lunch. Constant contact. All of the I don't have opposite sex friends and neither do they. 

Group C who just rug swept. They are all over the place. Some look broken, some look crazed, some just go all stepford wives like. The elephant is in the room being ridden by a 600 lb gorilla with a monkey on it's back and they talk about everything else. Some also seem afraid of silence, like they can't shut up about anything.

Group D they soldier on. They did the work, followed the steps, and now they just wait until the antidote kicks in. They are a team. Everything is different. You can feel it. It's like they are a less radiant. Still a light, but you gotta squint a little to see as good as you used to. They have a marriage mission to complete.

Group E, they are happy. Maybe you could say stronger, but not in the sense that cheating was worth it. Stronger in that they drew closer and worked on communication and stuff. They seem like they are a team that has a plan to execute. They are not free flowing, if you will. They are executing plays from a playbook and they trust the playbook to produce the outcome they want. They like to tell you how they have regularly scheduled talks and stuff. 

Every single BS I know is noticeably changed. Of course, I observe people closely. Tool of my trade. I cannot say good or bad because it is their life to live and if they are fine, I am fine, to the extent that it is even my business to have an opinion. 

There are probably more, but these are the ones I have seen.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

bigfoot said:


> I have seen so many who have gone through this , those who D and R. I can tell you my observations.
> 
> Group A who looks like they won the prize but wonder if it was worth the cost. They talk the positives, but you catch them with that look in their eye when they think no one is looking.
> 
> ...


Interesting. In my case, there is zero A or C. There was a healthy dose of B in the beginning (you can't demand no contact and avoid B). Now it's probably 70% D and 30% E.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

An EA wouldn't bother me that much if I know for a fact that it never got physical. Still unacceptable but if we were married, had kids, I probably wouldn't file for divorce over the EA if I got the remorse and stuff.

Now a PA is a whole other beast that requires a level of forgiveness that is beyond my scope as a human being.


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## Equis (Nov 7, 2017)

I agree, even with R you lose that love attachment to the person, the bond that was broken will never be the same. My WS has made tons of changes, yet something's still missing. Is not even something that's a little broken and needing work, it's something just gone now. It's up to the couple of its something they can live on without having that piece in the puzzle, sometimes I still wonder.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> Re: Those who stayed/tried to after being cheated on, what has been the personal toll


This is a flawed question, as it answers itself, because it implies that their must be a personal toll from forgiving a cheating spouse, thus indicating that anyone who forgives a cheating spouse was, in some way, wrong to forgive them.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> This is a flawed question, as it answers itself, because it implies that their must be a personal toll from forgiving a cheating spouse, thus indicating that anyone who forgives a cheating spouse was, in some way, wrong to forgive them.


I think you are answering a question that hasn’t got an answer.
I have never been cheated on so maybe I’m not entitled to answer but the question seems to imply that there is an end point,a final tally even.
I think it is something that can never be fully forgiven or forgotten.There will always be a little part of the betrayed partner that never fully forgives the wayward partner,there will always be triggers and even years later the temptation to throw the waywards infidelity into their face is there.
You can forgive but you can’t forget.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> *This is a flawed question*, as it answers itself, because it implies that their must be a personal toll from forgiving a cheating spouse, thus indicating that anyone who forgives a cheating spouse was, in some way, wrong to forgive them.


It’s not, and it in no way implies that forgiveness is somehow “wrong”.

And the question was about _staying_, not forgiving. Plenty of folks do one but not the other. 

In fact, depending on circumstances, I usually suggest the latter and not the former.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> It’s not, and it in no way implies that forgiveness is somehow “wrong”.
> 
> And the question was about _staying_, not forgiving. Plenty of folks do one but not the other.
> 
> In fact, depending on circumstances, I usually suggest the latter and not the former.


But it presumes that everyone who forgives a cheater has a personal toll. That they all have a negative outcome.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> But it presumes that everyone who forgives a cheater has a personal toll.


Forgives? Not necessarily.

Reconciles? Yes.



MattMatt said:


> That they all have a negative outcome.


Incorrect.

“Cost” isn’t the same as “negative outcome”.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> But it presumes that everyone who forgives a cheater has a personal toll. That they all have a negative outcome.


Show me the person who didn't have a personal toll then? And don't say you because you have posted enough for all of us to know you have had one.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Show me the person who didn't have a personal toll then? And don't say you because you have posted enough for all of us to know you have had one.


Yeah, but I am me!

Actually most of the **** in my life is because I married someone who has Asperger's Syndrome and was unaware of thid and the problems this would cause.

The cheating added layers onto this, for certain.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Show me the person who didn't have a personal toll then? And don't say you because you have posted enough for all of us to know you have had one.


Anger and frustration on the short term, resolution for the long term. That was all it was to me. 

Lol, my wife was undiagnosed(and untreated) bipolar type 1 for the first nine years of our marriage. Whats worse was that the medications she WAS on made the bipolar disorder even worse. Her infidelity lost any emotional significance to me incredibly quickly. 

She has never bored me though. And that keeps me happy. 

I cant think of any personal toll that staying with her has had on me though. But, i AM an oddball...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Anger and frustration on the short term, resolution for the long term. That was all it was to me.
> 
> Lol, my wife was undiagnosed(and untreated) bipolar type 1 for the first nine years of our marriage. Whats worse was that the medications she WAS on made the bipolar disorder even worse. Her infidelity lost any emotional significance to me incredibly quickly.
> 
> ...


Aren't you and your wife separated now though?


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

I've struggled for so long with the personal toll, it's hard to remember who I was or what my life was like before the original revelation of my H's infidelity. It would take too long to go into the story. The short version is that 20 years ago now (as far as I know) H was a serial cheater. I didn't find out until 9 years ago and I believed him that it was only one woman. Eventually more of the truth came out and he finally confessed that he doesn't even remember the number of women. I'm not sure if I believe him, but it's possible. He was drinking heavily then and does have trouble remembering many things from those years. He exposed me to an STD, he lied, blame-shifted, trickle-truthed for years, and was a complete hypocrite when I had my own affair - spying on my relentlessly and still not telling me the truth. 

There's obviously much more, if you want to read the whole saga, here is the link to my thread. 
https://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/387194-decision-time.html

I often wish I could go back in time so that I could do what I should have instead of rug sweeping for 5 years, then debasing myself by having first an EA and then a PA. In the meantime, my H has decided he now loves me, treats me with consideration and respect. So, like another poster wrote, the situation is more nuanced now. We are both older and wiser and we have built a life together over the past 30 years of marriage that involves children, a home, and extended family. There are also financial obligations, we are heavily in debt. So it's hard for me to see how my life without him would work. Yet I can't continue my life as it is with him either. 
I've recently sublet an apartment near where I work and will be using the next 6 months to figure out what is best for me going forward. I'll invite my H to meet me occasionally for dinner, maybe we'll attempt MC again now that we are both not entangled with affairs. I really don't know what the future holds and that's a strange place to be, at my age especially. I just know I have to do this to reset things to where they should have been a long time ago. I also know I don't want to continue in a sexless relationship forever, though it's not so much the sex I miss now as physical closeness and affection. 
I know I've painted a horrendous picture of the cost I've paid for staying in the marriage. It's not all been awful though. Because of what happened, I now have a graduate degree in a field in which I am guaranteed a job. I am a stronger, wiser person, with better boundaries and more honesty in my relationships. Staying in the marriage changed me in profound ways, both good and bad. But I don't know that leaving at the time I first found out about his cheating would have brought me to a better place then I am right now. My children were young still and I was much less mature. I might have made even worse mistakes, who knows. We all make decisions that in hindsight we realize could have been better. 
I care about my H, he has matured too and I can see the cost of what he did in the way he looks at me. I wish I could hate him again sometimes, but that has passed. What's left is for me to continue to focus on my own growth. I am no longer invested in his.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Aren't you and your wife separated now though?


Not at all. The only time i have been "separated" from my wife has been during TDY and deployments. 

Which is, admittedly, most of the time.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Anger and frustration on the short term, resolution for the long term. That was all it was to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’m sure this will offend someone but....some of these spectrum disorders that sprang out of nowhere in recent ish years....I’m sometimes dubious: in a way, any sh1tty pattern of behaviour can be given a ‘sophisticated’ name; I don’t know how much that helps anyone. Maybe it does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

inmyprime said:


> I’m sure this will offend someone but....some of these spectrum disorders that sprang out of nowhere in recent ish years....I’m sometimes dubious: in a way, any sh1tty pattern of behaviour can be given a ‘sophisticated’ name; I don’t know how much that helps anyone. Maybe it does.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, i can tell you that my wife on proper meds is very different from my wife on improper meds. In my wifes words, she always felt like her brain was simultaneously on fire and in a fog 24/7, and now its like she can see things clearly amd can actually calm down. 

The psychiatrists that diagnosed her used events in her medical history going back four years before we met as part of the diagnosis. 

It still took her a year for her to build new healthy habits after getting on the new meds though. Of course, that is to be expected.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> I’m sure this will offend someone but....some of these spectrum disorders that sprang out of nowhere in recent ish years....I’m sometimes dubious: in a way, any sh1tty pattern of behaviour can be given a ‘sophisticated’ name; I don’t know how much that helps anyone. Maybe it does.


Sometimes an ******* is just an *******.

And by “sometimes” I mean way more often than not.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

I have been around a long time and have seen a lot of cheating. I am inclined to believe that the toll on the bs is so wrenching, so hurtful, so damaging that nearly always there should be a divorce. The betrayal is almost like a tumor that needs to be excised by severing the relationship with the ws.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

The biggest revelation after I was informed (10+ years after we were legally separated for some time) about the depth of her behavior, was that I will forever know what she is capable of when I am not around. I will never fully trust her, even if I love her and she tells me often how wrong she was. I also suffer from occasional rumination in trying to understand what was happening and when, and I fixate on calendars from those "lost years" when we were separated.


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