# EA?, does it matter at this point?



## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Hi,

My wife and i separated 4 months ago. We were having problems, being distant with each other, emotional apart both of us, i was taking her for granted and being cold in the relatioship as well as some other problems and as you probably know that mae us more like roomates tan lovers. At that point we had been married for 4 years and 9 months and have a three year old boy.

We went to therapy because she had become more distant and i realized at that point we had to do something or we were headed for D. Afyter two sessions she said she was feeling presured and needed "space" and "to figure out her feelings for me" so for stupid reasons i moved out and let her have her own cake and eat it too. Yeah, a lot of people told me there must be somebody else. Nahhh i said i dont think so. I was wrong or was i?

She had become close to her old friends from school for about a couple of months prior to that and had gone out to restaurants a couple of times. They had a Whatsupp group and everything was cool, until...

I blew her off a couple of times and went out with friends and came drunik late at night, she started to drift further away, so one day her friends ha a BBQ and she left with a girlfriend of hers and her best friend (godfather to our boy) and came home at 4:30 in the morning, not wasted or anything, but another friend of hers ( i guy i had met once or twice at my son's godfather's house) had drop her since the others were still at the BBQ and she wanted to come home, nothing big right? When she got home she mentioned "You wouldn't know what happend to my friend X who's just getting divorced from his wife" i said, no, whatever. I didn't care, nothing big. But i had a Little itch in my stomach since that day for that guy, i don't know, something wasn't right.

Maybe three weeks later while our relationship had gone really sour i checked her pone, there was no messages from her or him, but there was one call she made at 6 in the morning to him one day after she had left for work and another maybe two weeks later on a friday night that was maybe 15 minutes long.

I confronted her, she got mad since i invaded her privacy and she said, he's my friend since the 5th grade and he neede help with something at the hospital she Works for so she called him that early to assit him with a coworker of his or something, and i looked at her eyes and she seemed to be telling the truth, i felt bad for not trusting her.

So we go to my son's godfather BD and the guy friend was there as well as a lot of their friends, the guy comes up and says hi, i look at his eyes and don't seen an ounce of anything that would make me think there was something going on. That day my wife and i were kind of fighting and she was very distant with me, i went to her several times and i hugged her and she hugged me back, but you could tell we were in the rocks, Anyway, big fight afterwards and we got home. I went thru her phone and she had called him when i dropped her at my son's godfather party (i went back an hour later), but he din't answer and then called back but she didn't answer.

So when go go to the second therapy sesión she tells me that she neede space and blah, blah and i end up leaving the house.

In late Nov i go thru her cel pone bill in the coputer at our apartment and i find a lot of calls she made to this guy (i had found out his phone number), a couple of calls were at 6 in the morning just when she had left the house, short calls, another call was one day i had gone to the supermarket, another was one time she went out with all of her HS friends after i had left the house, and one the day i left, most of them were at 9 at night and were followed to calls to her mom. Some of this calls were 15, 20 minutes long.

Last call (and this is the part that intrigues me) was on oct 6 and it was a 31 minute call. So i confront her and she tells me "how do i know whose number belongs to who?" i said "I know his number" and then she tells me those were just calls and that he was supporting her when we just separated and that since he had gone thru the same he understood. I said "but 20-30 minute calls?" she says "my problems are not a 5 minute call situation" and she say "you looked at sept bill right?, because if you look at the october bill you'd realice there was only one or two calls at the beggining and none after all. And that was that.

I asked he the following day why did the calls stop, why she didn0't call him again, she wouldn't tell me, she said, "you want to know that for your own peace of mind?, i won't tell you.

Long story short i saw the oct, nov and december bills and there where no more calls, she couldn't have stopped because i knew because back at the beggining of oct i didn't know about the calls.

A coule of days ago while discussing divorce proceedings i asked her again about the calls and how dissapointed, she said "if you really knew me you would know that's not me, i wouldn't do something like that while still married", i thought for a minute and asked her OK, but why did you stop calling him if he was such a friend supporting you and all. She said, my mom's BD was on 8th of october and since he (the friend) is a chef i hired him to do a thai dinner for my mom and that's why i was contacting him. Why did you stop i asked, she said just because, no reason to call him.

My big question to all of you seasoned TAMers.

To me something must have happend there. I believe part of her "confusión" and wanting space and all that crap from me, was because this "friend" was in her life and she became infatuated with him, i strongly belive that.

I left on the 24th of september, last call to him was on the 6th of october. There must have been a reason for her to stopped calling him. The thai dinner story is true by the way, but still she was contacting him way before that.

What do you think happend?, EA, PA, something happend and she backed out. He backed out? If she was having an affair or planning of having one, why so short lived?, why stop if i had left and given her all the "space" needed?


Thanks for Reading the long story.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Not enough info.

Unseen chat ap, burner phone, facebook games...

Still separated and apart?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

You need to move back home and get the divorce going.....the last thing you need is this guy under your roof....remember it's your roof too.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

If you want to know more information

VAR her car and place a keylogger on her pc. You'll know in short order.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

They havent talked since october. I know it as a fact. Divorce is going. I have followed her, gone thru the PC, check cell phone bills. Nothing out of the ordinary. With this friend they just stopped talking. Big question is why? If things get ugly with the sale of the condo i will go back to the apartment.

Still separated, gone thru her FB, she doesnt use it. I know today theres nothing going on with THAT guy, question is if it ever was.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Regretf said:


> What do you think happend?, EA, PA, something happend and she backed out. He backed out? If she was having an affair or planning of having one, why so short lived?, *why stop if i had left and given her all the "space" needed?*


It's not over. You gave up your trump card (checking the phone records) and they moved it underground.

Burner phone, texting app, secret email account, online chatting without using her phone, Facetime, Skype, etc.

I don't believe she is being truthful with you. 

Sorry, but you are out. The OM is in.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> It's not over. You gave up your trump card (checking the phone records) and they moved it underground.
> 
> Burner phone, texting app, secret email account, online chatting without using her phone, Facetime, Skype, etc.
> 
> ...


The last call was on october the 6th. I found out and confronted her late nov. There was no way of them knowing that i knew back then.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

But what good is trying to find out the truth if you are in the process of divorce? Just saying.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Regretf said:


> They havent talked since october. I know it as a fact. Divorce is going. I have followed her, gone thru the PC, check cell phone bills. Nothing out of the ordinary. With this friend they just stopped talking. Big question is why? If things get ugly with the sale of the condo i will go back to the apartment.
> 
> Still separated, gone thru her FB, she doesnt use it.


Doesn't use the OLD facebook account perhaps, but consider that she may have another one you don't know about.
Consider checking out the friends list of some of her best friends, using someone else's account since you might be blocked from seeing anything, and looking for her alter ego account.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Its been discussed dozens of times here, and "needing space" is universally accepted as cheater speak for wanting privacy to carry on an affair.

Sure was in my case. "Need space" on TAM means sex with another.

Like HappyasaClam said, I'd imagine she's got her another phone. Simple to do, tracfone, etc. Hiding is easy. Probably has new email accounts, etc.

She had time to get her story together, the Thai dinner? BS. Once she was found out, she then upped the pace of the divorce. Cheaters lie.

Cheaters lie.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Fk it, mate. Move on. What she does now is no longer your concern.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Another thought. You still own that house. Find you the smallest trail camera/security camera you can find. Hide that thing (if possible) somewhere it will get photos of who comes and goes. 

I'll bet she has a pretty unusual schedule.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Agree with the "move on" peeps.

Really, what's the point of retrospectively catching somebody you're already divorcing from?

That said, you might want to learn from your own part in the downfall, so,,,,


Your OP is light on preamble so no way to tell how you arrived at the EA/PA stage described.

Could be she's good at hiding her cheating but there's evidence to suggest she was being sincere.

You've (both) recognised a problem and gone to counseling. I'd hope you were told to listen to each other if nothing else. A therapist can't give you a cure like a doctor but, unless you're already throwing steak knives at each other, will typically send you away with ideas as to how to communicate better.

Poorly advised or oblivious, following these sessions you blow your wife off to go drinking with your mates,,, then respond to her talking to you with a "whatever". Whatever her flaws,, those aren't the actions of somebody keen to reconcile.

When you've quizzed her about the calls and texts you've found, her responses have tallied with what you subsequently found to be true.

Cheaters tend to be secretive OR not if they're particularly disrespectful or uncaring. If she were hiding his messages and calls she'd be unlikely to invite him to the same party during the same period. Despite you being on full alert, you've read nothing in their faces or caught them 'signalling' each other or having cosy chats in a corner.

If you're already in counseling, then going out on your own and 'whatever-ing' her when she tries to talk to you,, she's going to go elsewhere for comfort and advice - just like you did with your mates. Male or female,, whoever's providing her comfort. ONE 31min call is nothing,, especially if it has a reason confirmed by deed(s) and no other lengthy calls in the same undeleted period. While they do make mistakes, cheaters tend not to flit from cautious to uncautious and back again. They stay cautious or progress to throwing caution to the wind.

Possibly, she developed feelings for the guy simply because he talked to her when you wouldn't. That doesn't mean she actively persued him and, whatever she did (or didn't) may've been a direct result of your dismissive attitude.

'Whatevers' do not a marriage mend.

Again,, no concrete evidence that she's done anything wrong - beyond matching your distance - but evidence and strong indications that she was sincere.

If I'm right, your spying and questionings would be tantamount to false accusations to her - pìssing her off even more.

Once you reached the counseling stage, it seems you put more effort into spying on her than any effort to effectively communicate with her.

Whatever her culpability, you have to acknowledge your part in the 'final chapter'. The retroactive/mutual punishing game, spying, accusing and 'whatever-ing' aren't harmonious with bonding.

Loyal women don't like it and flighty ones will tolerate even less of it. Whichever your wife began as, you sure didn't provide her with much incentive to stick around when the going got tough.

If you learn from your own mistakes you'll be less inclined to repeat them.

Move on,, and don't 'whatever' the next one. It's an unattractive trait in both genders.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

Forest said:


> Another thought. You still own that house. Find you the smallest trail camera/security camera you can find. Hide that thing (if possible) somewhere it will get photos of who comes and goes.
> 
> I'll bet she has a pretty unusual schedule.


I agree with this. I like trail cams. Motion activated, date/time stamped, see in the dark, run on cheap batteries for a long time, lots of pictures, and if you want to spend the money, it will stream the pictures to the web for you, so you never have to visit it to pull the card.

I dont blame you for wanting answers. I would too.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

altawa said:


> I agree with this. I like trail cams. Motion activated, date/time stamped, see in the dark, run on cheap batteries for a long time, lots of pictures, and if you want to spend the money, it will stream the pictures to the web for you, so you never have to visit it to pull the card.
> 
> I dont blame you for wanting answers. I would too.


Why are you divorcing her? I know she has been cold to you and I suspect that she has been cold right back. Are you tired of her? From what you've written she's tired of you constantly checking and basically accusing her of infidelity.

At this point does she want you to leave? Does she want the divorce?

And most important of all, have you pushed your wife away with your suspicions? As far as I can see, you really have no proof that she's had an affair, at least with this guy. I can see an EA, is that a deal breaker for you?

I'm only cautioning you to stop and think before you do something you may regret the rest of your life.


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

sidney2718 said:


> Why are you divorcing her? I know she has been cold to you and I suspect that she has been cold right back. Are you tired of her? From what you've written she's tired of you constantly checking and basically accusing her of infidelity.
> 
> At this point does she want you to leave? Does she want the divorce?
> 
> ...


??????


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Forest said:


> Its been discussed dozens of times here, and "needing space" is universally accepted as cheater speak for wanting privacy to carry on an affair.


:iagree:

Let me elaborate on what Forest wrote. Again this in general when women want some space. *I think #2 applies to you.*

1.	At best she is deciding which man she wants, you or the OM. It’s like the cable show “House Hunters.” One house is in the perfect location while the other has an attached garage. 

Women love shopping and she’s having the time of her life. She having naughty sex with the OM while you’re waiting for her to come back. She’s so special (in her own mind) that both you and the OM are lucky to be considered. She's in a soap opera and she's the star. She loves Paul but John is such a good family man. Which man will she pick? Tune in next week and find out.

If she finally chooses you then you should be honored. She’s sacrificing her happiness for her family and they should be grateful.

*2.	She has already chosen the OM and is getting all of her ducks in a row. 

Even though she plans on being out in the open with the OM someday she will still deny an affair. She wants to protect her reputation. 

The timeline she wants is that you had marriage problems because you were bad. You separated and couldn't work it out. You marriage being over she saw no reason to not start dating. Guess who she dates?*


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Regretf said:


> A coule of days ago while discussing divorce proceedings i asked her again about the calls and how dissapointed, she said "if you really knew me you would know that's not me, *i wouldn't do something like that while still married*".


I grantee you that if you find proof that they’re have sex now (before you’re divorced) she will say: But we were separated.

I would still do the following just to set the record straight. 



workindad said:


> If you want to know more information. VAR her car and place a keylogger on her pc. You'll know in short order.


*LOOK HERE:* http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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