# Advice needed, totally devasted



## worried79

Hi, 
I'm new to the forums so hope I'm posting in the right place. 
Sorry if this gets long winded and seems a little jumbled. 
I'm 35 & my wife is 30, we have been married almost 10 yrs & together 13 yrs. we have 2 awesome boys of 4 & 8. 
About 3 weeks ago my wife told me she doesn't love me anymore & doesn't know if she still wants to be with me. 
This has left me totally emotionally ruined, I'm so upset I can't explain it. 
I can't eat, sleep, focus on work or be around people. 
She says it's been brewing for a long time maybe a year & that it has all come to this for her fear of been able to talk to me, I am in no way a violant or aggressive person & always thought we could talk about anything. 
She says I have become moody, unapproachable, controlling & she can't talk to me because of this. 
I'll be 1st to admit yes sometimes I don't have great days and feel down but this has all come as a huge shock to me.
We are a busy couple, I go out to work at 7am & return about 4:30pm. I get my tea etc with her and the boys then she starts work 5pm ish to 7:30/8pm, she's a music teacher and works from home except for Sunday when she can be out 9:30am to 4:30pm. So as you can see trying to get a bit of Us times is hard. 
Another major factor in all this is that I suspect she may be having some sort of emotional affair/relationship with a guy who she is friends with.
I have no problem with her having male friends and wouldn't tell her she couldn't be friends with someone.
These are my reason for this suspicion 
- She is always messaging this person, I pretty much sure of this as I have been monitoring online activity etc. (yes I know my mind may be playing tricks)
- She is very protective of her phone, won't leave it near me, when I walk into a room she turns it upside down or hides it out of view. 
- If I ask her about a message she gets she pauses and has to think about it. 
- She fails to mention if she has met him for coffee or had lunch with him, she had to tell me the other day because I left work early and rang to meet her.
- The past couple of nights she has been upstairs and "online" as soon as I appear she goes "offline" then makes an excuse a few moments later to leave the room only to reappear "online" ( yes I am checking up but I have got myself so worked up about it I'm going crazy )

I have been looking online and all these signs point to my suspicion.

I have brought this up & she got all moody, agitated & didn't want talk about it. She thinks I was just making out she was having an affair to shift blame. 

I have suggested we see a counsellor & she says I need to sort myself out for me & seems to think I just need to speak to someone.
I have agreed yes I do need to speak to someone & admitted I may be suffering from depression, I have just started taking Rescue Remedy & kalms tablets. I feel a bit better already from this and don't want to go on prescription drugs. 

I am now thinking that I may have pushed her into this by her not been able to talk to me & things have got so distant between us as she now feels more confident talking to him not me. Also I think she is exhausting all her things to say to him so we have nothing to talk about.

She says she has tried on numerous times and feels now she has nothing left to give. 

As for the future she says that she hasn't thought that far ahead yet, I have said I'll go stay at my mums for a while but I really don't want this as been away from my boys will destroy me and I feel it will help her move on and make permanent desicions on the back of it. She also said I don't need to move out but she does need time & space. 

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated. 

Again sorry it's a long winded 1st post


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## Yeswecan

Red flag after read flag. She is in an EA. Hopefully not a PA at these coffee meetings. Try to get hard evidence. Check phone records. Do not confront until you have evidence. Is she on FB? Do you have here passwords to emails and FB. This supposed friend...what do you know about him?


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## Nix

Unfortunately I would agree with the previous poster. Your W Has left your marriage emotionally and sounds like she has likely already begun a new relationship, if it is not physical yet it is headed that way. I would prepare for the worst. So sorry for you.


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## commonsenseisn't

This ones' easy.

She's cheating on you.

The real question is: are you going to handle it like a man or a mouse?


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## frusdil

Do not move out of your home. If she wants space, she can go but the children stay in the house with you.

Time for action. Stand up and fight for your family. Tell her that if she wants to stay married she cuts off all contact with this other bloke NOW. If she refuses serve her with separation papers and tell her to go.

She'll get the shock of her life and it might be just what she needs.


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## FormerSelf

!!!!DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!!!









worried79...all of her reasons for dumping the blame on you for her drifting away is smoke and mirrors. 

Not saying your marriage was perfect all before this, but she is closing you out with all these excuses to basically back you off, to intimidate you give up your power/leverage, to manipulate you to actually AGREE that this is all your fault, that way she can continue in this affair with her built-up-denial and the "moral" grounds to leave you for another man.

Why are we so insistent that she is cheating? Because she is playing the script to the T that I and many others have experienced. If you want absolute proof for yourself, purchase a Voice Activated Recorder to velcro under her car seat...as cheater's love to talk on their phones or visit each other in privacy of the car. It is just for your own personal proof...not to be shared with wife...that is a no-no. If it sounds like some physical activites is about to be heard, stop for a CLOSE-CLOSE friend to hear as many have said it is too traumatic to experience. Others are more savvy about tracking cell texts or e-mail.

Most importantly, stop inquiring or asking about other man. She will cover her tracks and you will be in the dark. Instead, you go dark on her, following the 180 below. make your plans while gathering intel...then make your best decision. YOu wife is in the middle of an affair, using up all of her emotional investment...she is on a high and is not thinking clearly. YOu cannot plead with her or convince her to stay. The only way a cheater will stop is if the pain of the consequences of the affair reaches a crisis point. This is why you A. get proof. B.If proof, EXPOSE affair...especially if OM is married (try to sneak more info about him). Let her family and friends know about her behavior. Don't make this affair easy for them. C. Set boundaries..let her know "If you choose to cheat, then I choose to not support you financially (especially cell phone!!!), you need to move out. Ready separation plans quietly while she is under the belief that she can act this way AND be entitled to all her creature comforts. Just back off for now and let her do her thing while you get evidence and plan. And when you get them, blow the affair out of the water.

Having said all this...you must follow the 180 quoted below, as these behavior may help get her attention and stop her in her tracks before the worst happens. Also read Love Must Be Tough by James Dobsen.


> The 180
> 
> 1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> 
> 2. No frequent phone calls.
> 
> 3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.
> 
> 4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.
> 
> 5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
> 
> 6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.
> 
> 7. Don’t ask for reassurances.
> 
> 8. Don’t buy or give gifts.
> 
> 9. Don’t schedule dates together.
> 
> 10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.
> 
> 11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
> 
> 12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
> 
> 13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
> 
> 14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!
> 
> 15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
> 
> 16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!
> 
> 17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.
> 
> 18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
> 
> 19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
> 
> 20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!
> 
> 21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.
> 
> 22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
> 
> 23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
> 
> 24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
> 
> 25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
> 
> 26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
> 
> 27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
> 
> 28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
> 
> 29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.
> 
> 30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
> 
> 31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”
> 
> 32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
> 
> 33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening worried79
I'm sorry for your situation.

Your wife doesn't love you any more. It really doesn't matter why. Ask her for a divorce. Spend your life with someone who does love you.


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## Mr.Fisty

The reason why you are hurting, is because you feel like losing part of yourself.

When couples get married, they sometimes create a single identity, or they see their spouse as a part of them.

Learn to detach, and become independent.

Gather any evidence, and use it to break their affair open or use it to get a divorce.

Now is the time to be proactive and not reactive.

If your being reactive, your already behind.

By detaching you become stronger, and your stating that you won't put up with this behavior.

Get a separation to protect finances now. 

She may drain your assets. It has been known to happen.

Close all joint accounts, and split bank accounts.

Find the best lawyer and get advice, and educate yourself.


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## tom67

Mr.Fisty said:


> The reason why you are hurting, is because you feel like losing part of yourself.
> 
> When couples get married, they sometimes create a single identity, or they see their spouse as a part of them.
> 
> Learn to detach, and become independent.
> 
> Gather any evidence, and use it to break their affair open or use it to get a divorce.
> 
> Now is the time to be proactive and not reactive.
> 
> If your being reactive, your already behind.
> 
> By detaching you become stronger, and your stating that you won't put up with this behavior.
> 
> Get a separation to protect finances now.
> 
> She may drain your assets. It has been known to happen.
> 
> Close all joint accounts, and split bank accounts.
> 
> Find the best lawyer and get advice, and educate yourself.


Voice activated recorder in her car you will get info in a few days.
Tell her parents and close friends.


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## Rugs

First of all, I'm sorry you are going through this. It is a terrible time, especially with young children. 

My advice: DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME.

Your wife IS having an affair and blaming you for it. It's easy for her to justify her actions if she can blame someone else (you) for her behavior. DON'T buy it. 

We all can be depressed, busy, moody, tired, hard to talk to......but that doesn't mean you should run off with another person. 

She agreed to these terms and so did you. These life hardships should be worked on, that is what marriage is all about. 

SHE wants to throw it away, not you. SHE wants to throw it away and blame you.

Do you see? 

Throw it right back at her. Tell her you will share your part and work on the marriage but the deal is off if she is with any other man.

Talk tough. Put your foot down. Start seeing through her BS and serve it back to her for her to own.

The one making demands right now should be you.


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## worried79

Thanks for the replies. 
It seems my suspicions are right then. 
As for hacking her Facebook or grabbing her phone I have thought about this but really didn't want to go to that level. 
A voice recorder is quite a good idea and I'll look into that today. 
She has told her parents and a couple of other people I guess but I am unsure how much she has let on about her friendship with this guy. 
I am really tempted to air all my views to her parents so I can get my point across & maybe they will make her actually admit what is going on. 
I feel her admitting is the only place to start and then reduce or stop messaging him. 

Financially we can't afford to live apart and also I have an IVA which affects us both and also the house can't be sold because of this, it has about 30 months still to run and it isn't straight forward once finished either.


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## worried79

Yeswecan said:


> Red flag after read flag. She is in an EA. Hopefully not a PA at these coffee meetings. Try to get hard evidence. Check phone records. Do not confront until you have evidence. Is she on FB? Do you have here passwords to emails and FB. This supposed friend...what do you know about him?


She works a part time bar job every now and again and he works there too. 
She says he is also talking to her about his problems and has also got issues with a previous partner who's messing with his head. 
Which is funny as that's exactly what she is doing to me. 
I'm not one to judge but he still lives at home with his mum, works maybe 20hrs and earns very little. 
If it is him she is involved with he can't financially replace if you get what I'm saying. 
I'm totally lost and at my wits end.


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## jin

You need to gather evidence hard evidence before speaking to anyone. 

Read weightlifters thread on gathering evidence. 

You need a VAR and access to her phone. 

The in-laws are not likely to side with you over their daughter. In the face of hard evidence they will simply rug sweep and excuse her behaviour.


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## jin

Just thought I would add that you know things have not been good your marriage for some time. But recently you know it had taken a darker turn and she might be cheating. It is because she probably is cheating on you. 

It is a feeling in your gut and that is why you are seeking help and posting on this forum. 

You have my sympathies I have recently gone through what you are experiencing.


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## worried79

jin said:


> You need to gather evidence hard evidence before speaking to anyone.
> 
> Read weightlifters thread on gathering evidence.
> 
> You need a VAR and access to her phone.
> 
> The in-laws are not likely to side with you over their daughter. In the face of hard evidence they will simply rug sweep and excuse her behaviour.


Thanks for the reply. 
I will try gather more evidence but I feel I have enough just with her constant messages, I know this isn't enough though deep down. 
She's stopped using Facebook messenger and now using whatsapp. 
I could possibly log into her facebook but it would lock her out & reset her password & she'd know it was me straight away. As for whatsapp if I could get here phone I could email her conversation to myself. 
A VAR is a very good option but I think it's more online contact. 

Thanks again


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## jin

All you have at the moment is circumstantial evidence. It's not proof which will help you when you get gaslighted and called crazy. 

VAR in her car will be good. If she uses an iPhone you should try to get a backup of it and use fonelab which will allow you to see all messages including whatsapp messages even if they have been deleted.


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## worried79

jin said:


> All you have at the moment is circumstantial evidence. It's not proof which will help you when you get gaslighted and called crazy.
> 
> VAR in her car will be good. If she uses an iPhone you should try to get a backup of it and use fonelab which will allow you to see all messages including whatsapp messages even if they have been deleted.


 Yes she uses an iPhone. 
How would I obtain a back up if it's done on iCloud??
And is phone lab easy to use?


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## jin

Do you have her iCloud password? If so you just download the backup to computer and load into fonelab. It's very easy. 

Otherwise you will need to get the phone and create a backup on your computer through iTunes.

You will need her password to create a backup unless she does it for you. Tell her the software need to be updated on iTunes and you can then make a backup.


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## worried79

jin said:


> Do you have her iCloud password? If so you just download the backup to computer and load into fonelab. It's very easy.
> 
> Otherwise you will need to get the phone and create a backup on your computer through iTunes.
> 
> You will need her password to create a backup unless she does it for you. Tell her the software need to be updated on iTunes and you can then make a backup.


I don't have her password or hers for her log in on our laptop as we use 1 laptop it needs 2 users for iTunes. 
Getting her phone off her is near impossible & she would suspect something right away if I asked to plug it in. 

I have considered buying an iPhone 4 that won't switch on at swapping it with hers so I can have hers to email her whatsapp content to myself.


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## worried79

How do we even bring this subject up with the kids??
I won't be able to hide my emotions & will break down I front if them.


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## azteca1986

worried79 said:


> *I have no problem with her having male friends *and wouldn't tell her she couldn't be friends with someone.


Well, you should do. Especially when her male 'friends' de-stabilise your marriage.



> These are my reason for this suspicion
> - She is always messaging this person, I pretty much sure of this as I have been monitoring online activity etc. (yes I know my mind may be playing tricks)
> - She is very protective of her phone, won't leave it near me, when I walk into a room she turns it upside down or hides it out of view.
> - If I ask her about a message she gets she pauses and has to think about it.
> - She fails to mention if she has met him for coffee or had lunch with him, she had to tell me the other day because I left work early and rang to meet her.


1. Stop referring to him (as she does) as a 'friend'. He is her *boyfriend*. Call him that from now on. She's dating him. She's taking emotional energy from your marriage and children and expending it on him. 

2. Do not leave your house. Do not leave your boys. 

3. Be prepared to tell anyone who has an influence on your wife that she is having an affair.


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## Rugs

Why are you afraid to take her phone or ask for her password. She is your wife. 

Take the damn phone if you want it. Personally, I don't think you need it. 

Stop being afraid of your wife. Tell her to go live with her new boyfriend at his Mum's house and help her pack. 

Stop paying for her phone if you are paying for it now. Tell her she needs to start saving money for her new life and can't afford a phone.

Let her know you won't be paying for her affair.

Set a strong example for your boys.

Cry in your car or in the shower. Let it out.

Don't cry in front of your wife. She needs to see you mean business or she will remain in la-la land while you finance it .


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## Rugs

You should also have this thread moved to the "Coping with Infidelity" section of this forum to get more responses.

Read some other stories of infidelity on the CWI thread to gain some insight.


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## worried79

Rugs said:


> You should also have this thread moved to the "Coping with Infidelity" section of this forum to get more responses.
> 
> Read some other stories of infidelity on the CWI thread to gain some insight.


Thanks for your input.
I'm learning a lot from the responses. 
I guess I'm still in so much shock and so upset I can't function right at the moment. 
I need to get stronger for me & my boys. 
How do I move this thread to the right section ?


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## Rugs

worried79 said:


> Thanks for your input.
> I'm learning a lot from the responses.
> I guess I'm still in so much shock and so upset I can't function right at the moment.
> I need to get stronger for me & my boys.
> How do I move this thread to the right section ?


I don't know how to have it moved. You have to ask a moderator of the forum and I don't know how to do that but I'm sure someone will jump in and let you know.

Good people here that will help you. 

We know a lot about the shock, pain, can't sleep, can't eat......

It's an awful experience but we will help you.

On your end, see a dr. if you need temporary sleep medications or anxiety medications. Explain to him/her what you are going through. Eat small meals....a bagel, banana, yogurt,....so you don't get worn out and sick. You need some sleep so you can think straight. 

If and when you have time, read a few threads on the Coping with Infidelity section. What your going through and how your wife is behaving is very typical. It is called "cheater's script" here. 

She is acting like most wayward spouses (WS) and can possibly be "snapped" out of it if you can act toward her in a certainly way. 

Stay strong and "fake it until you make it" kind of a thing. 

Her seeing you weak will only drive her closer to the other man. 

She needs to see you mean business and that SHE is throwing away a marriage that YOU are trying to save. This is HER mess, not yours. SHE brought a third person into the marriage, not you. 

Do NOT let her blame anything about her affair on you. 

You have your issues and they should be worked on but that bears no reason or responsibility of her affair, the two do not go hand-in-hand in a marriage. 

Plenty of people go to counseling to support the marriage and work things out. OR they divorce if they cannot be worked out. AFAIRS have nothing to do with making marriages work or husbands change. 

Expose this affair at her work. Let them know this loser is screwing your wife. Affairs love secrecy. Other guys won't want him working their if they're sending their wives to the bar to work. 

The guy preys on married women. Who cares if they both get fired. I'm sure she can get something better. Tell her she must in order to afford her new lifestyle. She won't be happy about any of it but who cares. SHE made this mess by laughing at your marriage.

Again, she gets outed, embarrassed, fired, glances from women who thinks she is a tramp. She will change her tune. When she does blame you, tell her it was her that dropped her marriage and pants for a loser, not you. You've been working and being a dad the whole time.

Let her know if she wants to go live in a basement with a bum, she is welcome to but you have a better future for yourself and your boys. You need a woman who will support her husband through the hard times. You want your boys to have a good example for a mother than a father. Your wife is not making good choices right now. 

When you hand her over to Mr. Basement, while she has no job and no money, he won't want her. It's just fun, fun, party time for them now. But it won't be when you change the game plan. 

Yes, exposed affairs die quickly, and she will be mad her fantasy is dying but it will wake her up to see the family she is about to lose.

File divorce papers and have her served at work. You don't have to go through with a divorce , you can change your mind at anytime. This just lets her know you won't be around waiting and paying all the bills while she is out running around behaving badly and neglecting her family. 

Go split up the finances now. Have your check put into a seperate account that she does not have access to. That is to live and pay the bills. Her party money, she has, she has to come up with.

That's all my blubbering for now. 

Stay strong for your boys. Fight if you want your marriage. 

Really make sure she is worth the long term road. SHE has a lot of trust work she has to do if she does want the marriage. You don't want to go through this every few years like some people. 

I'm a female but the men on here like to say, "time to grow a pair" and get tough. It works a lot around here.


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## bandit.45

worried79 said:


> Thanks for your input.
> I'm learning a lot from the responses.
> I guess I'm still in so much shock and so upset I can't function right at the moment.
> I need to get stronger for me & my boys.
> How do I move this thread to the right section ?


Send a private message to Amplexor. He'll move it. 

You need to go have a consult with a lawyer. Learn your rights if this turns out to be a full blown affair and you have to take action. 

Sometimes waving that divorce petition in front if a wayward spouse is the only way to get their attention. 

You wanna get control of this sitch? Take control!


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## worried79

Rugs said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> I'm learning a lot from the responses.
> I guess I'm still in so much shock and so upset I can't function right at the moment.
> I need to get stronger for me & my boys.
> How do I move this thread to the right section ?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how to have it moved. You have to ask a moderator of the forum and I don't know how to do that but I'm sure someone will jump in and let you know.
> 
> Good people here that will help you.
> 
> We know a lot about the shock, pain, can't sleep, can't eat......
> 
> It's an awful experience but we will help you.
> 
> On your end, see a dr. if you need temporary sleep medications or anxiety medications. Explain to him/her what you are going through. Eat small meals....a bagel, banana, yogurt,....so you don't get worn out and sick. You need some sleep so you can think straight.
> 
> If and when you have time, read a few threads on the Coping with Infidelity section. What your going through and how your wife is behaving is very typical. It is called "cheater's script" here.
> 
> She is acting like most wayward spouses (WS) and can possibly be "snapped" out of it if you can act toward her in a certainly way.
> 
> Stay strong and "fake it until you make it" kind of a thing.
> 
> Her seeing you weak will only drive her closer to the other man.
> 
> She needs to see you mean business and that SHE is throwing away a marriage that YOU are trying to save. This is HER mess, not yours. SHE brought a third person into the marriage, not you.
> 
> Do NOT let her blame anything about her affair on you.
> 
> You have your issues and they should be worked on but that bears no reason or responsibility of her affair, the two do not go hand-in-hand in a marriage.
> 
> Plenty of people go to counseling to support the marriage and work things out. OR they divorce if they cannot be worked out. AFAIRS have nothing to do with making marriages work or husbands change.
> 
> Expose this affair at her work. Let them know this loser is screwing your wife. Affairs love secrecy. Other guys won't want him working their if they're sending their wives to the bar to work.
> 
> The guy preys on married women. Who cares if they both get fired. I'm sure she can get something better. Tell her she must in order to afford her new lifestyle. She won't be happy about any of it but who cares. SHE made this mess by laughing at your marriage.
> 
> Again, she gets outed, embarrassed, fired, glances from women who thinks she is a tramp. She will change her tune. When she does blame you, tell her it was her that dropped her marriage and pants for a loser, not you. You've been working and being a dad the whole time.
> 
> Let her know if she wants to go live in a basement with a bum, she is welcome to but you have a better future for yourself and your boys. You need a woman who will support her husband through the hard times. You want your boys to have a good example for a mother than a father. Your wife is not making good choices right now.
> 
> When you hand her over to Mr. Basement, while she has no job and no money, he won't want her. It's just fun, fun, party time for them now. But it won't be when you change the game plan.
> 
> Yes, exposed affairs die quickly, and she will be mad her fantasy is dying but it will wake her up to see the family she is about to lose.
> 
> File divorce papers and have her served at work. You don't have to go through with a divorce , you can change your mind at anytime. This just lets her know you won't be around waiting and paying all the bills while she is out running around behaving badly and neglecting her family.
> 
> Go split up the finances now. Have your check put into a seperate account that she does not have access to. That is to live and pay the bills. Her party money, she has, she has to come up with.
> 
> That's all my blubbering for now.
> 
> Stay strong for your boys. Fight if you want your marriage.
> 
> Really make sure she is worth the long term road. SHE has a lot of trust work she has to do if she does want the marriage. You don't want to go through this every few years like some people.
> 
> I'm a female but the men on here like to say, "time to grow a pair" and get tough. It works a lot around here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this post it is very helpful. 

As for finances etc I pay the mortgage, life insurance, Sky tv insurance for our dog & Central heating. 
She pays the rest gas, electric, council tax, water rates as these and this is less than I do. 
My money goes to my bank & hers to hers, no joint accounts.


----------



## worried79

The 180 seems like a very good step forward for both me & my boys, if the W see's sense from it too that would be great. 
I still want to try again so badly even though she says she has nothing left to give & I can't expect her to just change her mind like that. 

Thanks for the advise & keep it coming.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tulsy

worried79 said:


> I don't have her password or hers for her log in on our laptop as we use 1 laptop it needs 2 users for iTunes.
> Getting her phone off her is near impossible & she would suspect something right away if I asked to plug it in...


A keylogger on that PC will give you her password, which is likely the same password she uses for numerous applications.

Back in the day, a keylogger opened my eyes to everything that was going on behind my back. I used a free one (called "Actual Keylogger"), but there are plenty of better ones out there.


----------



## worried79

tulsy said:


> A keylogger on that PC will give you her password, which is likely the same password she uses for numerous applications.
> 
> Back in the day, a keylogger opened my eyes to everything that was going on behind my back. I used a free one (called "Actual Keylogger"), but there are plenty of better ones out there.


Cool, I have tried a coue of keyloggers but can't get them to work. Also will it work if she signs into her side of the laptop?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

FormerSelf said:


> worried79...all of her reasons for dumping the blame on you for her drifting away is smoke and mirrors.
> 
> Not saying your marriage was perfect all before this, but she is closing you out with all these excuses to basically back you off, to intimidate you give up your power/leverage, to manipulate you to actually AGREE that this is all your fault, that way she can continue in this affair with her built-up-denial and the "moral" grounds to leave you for another man.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
When cheaters cheat, they always look for excuses to blame their spouses. Since their spouse are human and not perfect, cheaters will always be able to find a reason, especially when they can reinvent your marriage history to make it look worse that it really is. You cannot not win this game, because they hold themselves out to be the sole judge and they do not want you to win. Your wife does not want to speak to a marriage counselor (MC) about these overblown issues because her goal was never to fix these issues but to use them to rationalize her cheating. Your wife also does not want to bring in a MC because then she would no longer get to be the sole judge. 

Bottom line: The fact that you are willing to accept blame, and are willing to see a MC, proves that you are a good spouse that she could have always worked things out with if that were really her goal. Stop accepting total blame for issues in your marriage. As long as she is unwilling to work on addressing these issues with you in good faith, she cannot hold these issues against you. Contrary to what cheaters say, a good spouse is not perfect; what makes a good spouse is their willingness to communicate and work on addressing these issue. Your willingness to work on addressing these issues makes you a good but not perfect spouse, do not let her tell you otherwise.


----------



## tulsy

worried79 said:


> ... Also will it work if she signs into her side of the laptop?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, of course it will. You can test it out on a different computer to see how it works.


----------



## badmemory

If you want the best chance of saving your marriage, you need to know the true motivation for your wife's "dissatisfaction" with you. If it's because she's cheating, that's a different ballgame, because you can certainly do some damage to her fantasy by exposing them both. 

Make yourself an expert on stealth technology. If you have to take a chance along the way, so be it. Sounds like a keylogger is your best bet, along with the VAR. But you can't do that if either of you leaves the house. Time is of the essence.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Check out this thread if you haven't already.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13

I'm sorry you are going through this.

One thing that is very clear - your wife is involved with another man. You can just let her walk away. Sometimes it's just not worth the aggravation.

But if you want a chance to save the marriage, the affair needs to be exterminated. To do that you need the hard evidence. Or else she will deny and gaslight you.

VAR in the car is the recommended approach. She can't speak to him at home, lest you hear her. So she will speak to him in the car. 

Another approach? When she is typing away, rip the phone from her. Demand the pass codes. Don't ask, she will give it to you just as soon as she scrubs it.

There are two groups that use WhatsApp. 1. Teenagers and 2. cheating spouses. You said your wife was 30, so that just leaves option 2.

EDIT- I think I'm getting WhatsApp confused with the IM that disappears after you read it, but still, why use 3rd party messaging in lieu of facebook which she was using??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## worried79

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I'm sorry you are going through this.
> 
> One thing that is very clear - your wife is involved with another man. You can just let her walk away. Sometimes it's just not worth the aggravation.
> 
> But if you want a chance to save the marriage, the affair needs to be exterminated. To do that you need the hard evidence. Or else she will deny and gaslight you.
> 
> VAR in the car is the recommended approach. She can't speak to him at home, lest you hear her. So she will speak to him in the car.
> 
> Another approach? When she is typing away, rip the phone from her. Demand the pass codes. Don't ask, she will give it to you just as soon as she scrubs it.
> 
> There are two groups that use WhatsApp. 1. Teenagers and 2. cheating spouses. You said your wife was 30, so that just leaves option 2.
> 
> EDIT- I think I'm getting WhatsApp confused with the IM that disappears after you read it, but still, why use 3rd party messaging in lieu of facebook which she was using??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cheers for your reply 
Yeah she uses whatsapp now, it was facebook messenger until a few days ago as I think she noticed me popping online when they did. 
I could do with a program to hack her whatsapp on the iPhone. 

I have bought a VAR and will be installing it asap, although I'm not aware of much voice communication but then again I'm not in the car with her am I.


----------



## ButtPunch

Not much to add but I have been in your shoes. What I learned from my deal is that you are at a crossroads. Any weak behavior (needy) will push your wife further away. She is in love with someone else. Your wife is a cheater and needs to be treated as such. However, get the hard proof you need before confrontation. Start the 180 now. I can't tell you how important it is for you to remain strong at this terrible time. Act like she is doing you a favor, and setting you free. 

Best of Luck


----------



## Forest

Boy, this is hard to hear. Its a very old and common story around here.

Remember, she's making up a great deal of your faults. She's been doing it for months in her head to convince herself its OK for her to forsake her vows, promises, loyalty, morality, and general basic human decency.

Expect to hear even more stupid BS out her down the road. She will likely fall into the supremely selfish and pitiful "I needed more attention and compliments" crowd.

Then, you'll be hearing about every mistake you've made since the day you were married.

There's lots of good tech info on this site, if you look around. Any threads by "Weightlifter", as mentioned, are excellent. I'm not too techy, but there are some GPS abilities with some phones, I know.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Hang in there. Check out the link I posted above. 

Once she realizes what she may lose - husband, home, 50% of kids, she could snap out of it. Will take a ton of work by both of you. But, truth must come first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## worried79

got the free trial of fone lab, do i need to purchase the full version or is a registration code available any where free on the web??

Cheers, Matt


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Usually the free trial versions don't work as you expect- need to make the purchase.

One thing to mention concerning iPhones and security. Within the past month or two Apple enhanced a lot the security on the phones with ios 8.0. Do research any products to be sure that you can use them without detection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## worried79

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Usually the free trial versions don't work as you expect- need to make the purchase.
> 
> One thing to mention concerning iPhones and security. Within the past month or two Apple enhanced a lot the security on the phones with ios 8.0. Do research any products to be sure that you can use them without detection.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I tried the free trial with my own details and figure it'll need to be the full thing, just looking into that now.

She hasnt upgraded to ios 8 yet as she has no space to do so.

i'm gonna try message her and catch her off guard tomorrow while she is out teaching and ask for her itunes details so i can "sort one of the boys ipods out as it wont sync on my side of the laptop".


----------



## MachoMcCoy

worried79 said:


> About 3 weeks ago my wife told me she doesn't love me anymore & doesn't know if she still wants to be with me.


Ever see that movie where Gene Hackman is some kind of PI who specializes in electronic eavesdropping? He gets paranoid and his life is destroyed as he gets crazier and crazier about his electronic spying.

So, your wife tells you she's done and all that these good people of TAM can do is begin you on that path of driving yourself crazy spying. 

My advice? Let her go. You have been replaced. 



worried79 said:


> The 180 seems like a very good step forward for both me & my boys, if the W see's sense from it too that would be great. _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are correct. 180 time for you and your boys. Best advice I've seen in this thread yet. But PLEASE ignore that part about her seeing a better you and coming back. It doesn't happen that way. BY FAR the hardest thing about the 180 is the permanent look of utter happiness on your life partner's face because you aren't talking to her anymore or (GOD FORBID) touching her anymore. I'm 4 years into my 180 and sometimes I can now go a full week without desiring her touch when I come to bed. A touch that I long for even though I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it will never happen.

It's not for the faint of heart. But neither is having the love of your life telling you she hasn't loved you for a while. You don't have a choice. Time to man-up pal. You are in for a ride. Just don't drive yourself crazy spying and accusing and fighting her EVERY excuse for EVERYTHING you will bring up. That's a slow, slow death. 



worried79 said:


> I'm 35...


And I was almost 50 with three kids nearing college age when I had to figure it out for myself that my wife was done. Your wife told you when you are only 35. Your WHOLE LIFE is ahead of you. You are one of the luckiest men on this forum.

Just let her go and start fixing yourself. Make yourself a better man and father. Use this gift to your advantage.


----------



## worried79

Cheers,
i am a couple of days into the start of my 180.
I have only text her and asked about the boys, not called her.
Taken the boys out this afternoon without saying where we was going etc.....
I am now the one been vague on my answers and not making much conversation with her.

Well i'm not looking into anything at all but already she appears to be having to make converstation with me and been a little too nice, she even spoke to me in bed this morning which hasn't happened in a few weeks. I used to wake and ask her how she slept, was she ok??, any plans for the morning etc & only get one word answers sometimes just muttered under her breath.

Maybe she is just trying to be nice for nice sake, like i say im not reading anything into it.

I'm also gonna try use a few of the sundays when im looking after the boys when she is out teaching to do more exciting things with them and have tea out a few times and return home after she does.

Thanks, Matt


----------



## PhillyGuy13

As I said above--- he can walk away and spare himself the aggravation. If there is a chance he wants reconciliation, he needs to get to the bottom of her lies.

That choice is his. I provide the advice. My fee is minimal- he can take or leave it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

worried79 said:


> About 3 weeks ago...





worried79 said:


> Cheers,
> i am a couple of days into the start of my 180...
> 
> Maybe she is just trying to be nice for nice sake,* like i say im not reading anything into it*.


Please don't. Three weeks from her telling you she's done and 2 days into your 180. Unlikely, even if she WASN'T giddy with love for her new little boyfriend. 

You know they have an inappropriate relationship. All you need is the phone records to show how much they text and talk. Can't get the phone records? Walk up to her and tell her to give you her phone or you walk/will produce divorce papers/both. WHEN she doesn't produce her phone, you walk/produce divorce papers/ both ON THE SPOT. No threats. 

You don't need to spy. That will take forever and get REALLY ugly before it gets better. I predict a 259 page thread going on in 2016 about how you ALMOST had proof. 

She told you she doesn't love you. She has a new boyfriend. You don't have time to spy. You need to ACT!!!


----------



## worried79

MachoMcCoy said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 3 weeks ago...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> i am a couple of days into the start of my 180...
> 
> Maybe she is just trying to be nice for nice sake,* like i say im not reading anything into it*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please don't. Three weeks from her telling you she's done and 2 days into your 180. Unlikely, even if she WASN'T giddy with love for her new little boyfriend.
> 
> You know they have an inappropriate relationship. All you need is the phone records to show how much they text and talk. Can't get the phone records? Walk up to her and tell her to give you her phone or you walk/will produce divorce papers/both. WHEN she doesn't produce her phone, you walk/produce divorce papers/ both ON THE SPOT. No threats.
> 
> You don't need to spy. That will take forever and get REALLY ugly before it gets better. I predict a 259 page thread going on in 2016 about how you ALMOST had proof.
> 
> She told you she doesn't love you. She has a new boyfriend. You don't have time to spy. You need to ACT!!!
Click to expand...

Not reading into it at all mate. 

I have a keylogger up & running now so should have some evidence soon & also about to buy Fone Lab in full to access the whatsapp stuff as well as a VAR arriving next week. 
Should be able to piece some evidence pretty soon.


----------



## FormerSelf

worried79 said:


> Cheers,
> i am a couple of days into the start of my 180.
> I have only text her and asked about the boys, not called her.
> Taken the boys out this afternoon without saying where we was going etc.....
> I am now the one been vague on my answers and not making much conversation with her.
> 
> Well i'm not looking into anything at all but already she appears to be having to make converstation with me and been a little too nice, she even spoke to me in bed this morning which hasn't happened in a few weeks. I used to wake and ask her how she slept, was she ok??, any plans for the morning etc & only get one word answers sometimes just muttered under her breath.
> 
> Maybe she is just trying to be nice for nice sake, like i say im not reading anything into it.
> 
> I'm also gonna try use a few of the sundays when im looking after the boys when she is out teaching to do more exciting things with them and have tea out a few times and return home after she does.
> 
> Thanks, Matt


Good job. In the book Love Must Be Tough, a spouse who is cheating, thinking about cheating, and in your case, has expressed that they are on the fence...well they pretty much start establishing an indictment against the spouse that they are tempted to leave. 

It is very natural for us, not aware of the why's and whatfor's, to clutch at them to slow their retreat...we panic and involve ourselves into pleading and begging and hovering over our spouse, make every promise to change imaginable.

The fact of the matter is that you spouse is already being drawn away...and your acts of desperation only puts pressure on her more, resulting in marital claustrophobia. The WS will thus only want to get out even more, and be all the more irrational about it. They will see your behavior as needy, not worthy of respect, and despicable...cementing their decision to leave. This is why the 180 is important.

As you can tell your wife seemed to have changed her tone. DO NOT see this as an opportunity to talk about the future or try to get a commitment out of her (as you will see that would undo all of your gains)...just keep doing what you are doing. 

The best thing to do is to convey in action is that you are leaving the "cage door open", where she is free to make her choice and you aren't going to impose yourself on her decision, yet at the same time you are ENDING the clingy, needy behaviors that are repulsing her. Love Must Be Tough compares it to trying to stifle inappropriate laughter in church or class or at a funeral...where the more you try to control yourself, the pressure and desire to laugh builds. Yet when you excuse yourself, or it's not "quiet time" anymore, the desire to laugh wanes, it dissipates and not quite as funny as you thought. 

So when you hover over a drifting spouse...all they can think is: "Get away...I must get out of here!!" because you have the pressure cooker lid on...and continuing putting the pressure will alway make it worse where the WS will blindly want to leave and often will TNT the situation (like a PA) to end things. But when you do the 180, you aren't flipping that switch...and the WS slowly returns to their rational, logical mind...that irrational desire to flee wanes and dissipates...and will often be at a place to reflect and weigh out their foolishness. I did this when my wife was trying to hide an EA...and stuck to the 180...and instead of maintaining an indignant attitude and "moral" highground, wife broke under her own guilt and emotional exhaustion.


----------



## worried79

FormerSelf said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> i am a couple of days into the start of my 180.
> I have only text her and asked about the boys, not called her.
> Taken the boys out this afternoon without saying where we was going etc.....
> I am now the one been vague on my answers and not making much conversation with her.
> 
> Well i'm not looking into anything at all but already she appears to be having to make converstation with me and been a little too nice, she even spoke to me in bed this morning which hasn't happened in a few weeks. I used to wake and ask her how she slept, was she ok??, any plans for the morning etc & only get one word answers sometimes just muttered under her breath.
> 
> Maybe she is just trying to be nice for nice sake, like i say im not reading anything into it.
> 
> I'm also gonna try use a few of the sundays when im looking after the boys when she is out teaching to do more exciting things with them and have tea out a few times and return home after she does.
> 
> Thanks, Matt
> 
> 
> 
> Good job. In the book Love Must Be Tough, a spouse who is cheating, thinking about cheating, and in your case, has expressed that they are on the fence...well they pretty much start establishing an indictment against the spouse that they are tempted to leave.
> 
> It is very natural for us, not aware of the why's and whatfor's, to clutch at them to slow their retreat...we panic and involve ourselves into pleading and begging and hovering over our spouse, make every promise to change imaginable.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that you spouse is already being drawn away...and your acts of desperation only puts pressure on her more, resulting in marital claustrophobia. The WS will thus only want to get out even more, and be all the more irrational about it. They will see your behavior as needy, not worthy of respect, and despicable...cementing their decision to leave. This is why the 180 is important.
> 
> As you can tell your wife seemed to have changed her tone. DO NOT see this as an opportunity to talk about the future or try to get a commitment out of her (as you will see that would undo all of your gains)...just keep doing what you are doing.
> 
> The best thing to do is to convey in action is that you are leaving the "cage door open", where she is free to make her choice and you aren't going to impose yourself on her decision, yet at the same time you are ENDING the clingy, needy behaviors that are repulsing her. Love Must Be Tough compares it to trying to stifle inappropriate laughter in church or class or at a funeral...where the more you try to control yourself, the pressure and desire to laugh builds. Yet when you excuse yourself, or it's not "quiet time" anymore, the desire to laugh wanes, it dissipates and not quite as funny as you thought.
> 
> So when you hover over a drifting spouse...all they can think is: "Get away...I must get out of here!!" because you have the pressure cooker lid on...and continuing putting the pressure will alway make it worse where the WS will blindly want to leave and often will TNT the situation (like a PA) to end things. But when you do the 180, you aren't flipping that switch...and the WS slowly returns to their rational, logical mind...that irrational desire to flee wanes and dissipates...and will often be at a place to reflect and weigh out their foolishness. I did this when my wife was trying to hide an EA...and stuck to the 180...and instead of maintaining an indignant attitude and "moral" highground, wife broke under her own guilt and emotional exhaustion.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice there mate. 
Good reading & hoping to stick to my guns, it's so tempting to try a hug or ask a question about the future but I'm not gonna give in. 

Thanks mate!!


----------



## BobSimmons

MachoMcCoy said:


> *Ever see that movie where Gene Hackman is some kind of PI who specializes in electronic eavesdropping? He gets paranoid and his life is destroyed as he gets crazier and crazier about his electronic spying.
> 
> So, your wife tells you she's done and all that these good people of TAM can do is begin you on that path of driving yourself crazy spying. *
> 
> My advice? Let her go. You have been replaced.
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. 180 time for you and your boys. Best advice I've seen in this thread yet. But PLEASE ignore that part about her seeing a better you and coming back. It doesn't happen that way. BY FAR the hardest thing about the 180 is the permanent look of utter happiness on your life partner's face because you aren't talking to her anymore or (GOD FORBID) touching her anymore. I'm 4 years into my 180 and sometimes I can now go a full week without desiring her touch when I come to bed. A touch that I long for even though I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it will never happen.
> 
> It's not for the faint of heart. But neither is having the love of your life telling you she hasn't loved you for a while. You don't have a choice. Time to man-up pal. You are in for a ride. Just don't drive yourself crazy spying and accusing and fighting her EVERY excuse for EVERYTHING you will bring up. That's a slow, slow death.
> 
> 
> 
> And I was almost 50 with three kids nearing college age when I had to figure it out for myself that my wife was done. Your wife told you when you are only 35. Your WHOLE LIFE is ahead of you. You are one of the luckiest men on this forum.
> 
> Just let her go and start fixing yourself. Make yourself a better man and father. Use this gift to your advantage.


I agree. Doesn't even have to be the hell of constantly checking her phone or whom she's talking to, the fact is dealing with the fact that she says she's done.

What would be the strategy if this guy turns out to be nothing more than a friend? How will you move forward from that?

I feel sometimes that going into detective mode actually can take away the focus from one dealing with themselves in regards to separating.

Even if there was proof that she is cheating, to me the point is mute. She says she doesn't love you, so take her at her word.

Go talk to a lawyer, start discussing visitation with the kids, separating the assets, where she's going to stay and start making this very real for her.


----------



## worried79

If he turns out to be just a friend it proves I've been wrong in my suspicion and my mind has had me over thinking. 
Separating is the last thing I want to happen, I still love her like crazy & feel like I always will. 
I'd like to think seeing the MC will help me with my problems and then start to focus on us & if it means starting again with a lot of work to win her heart back well I'm more than prepared for that.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

worried79 said:


> These are my reason for this suspicion
> - She is always messaging this person...
> - She is very protective of her phone, won't leave it near me, when I walk into a room she turns it upside down or hides it out of view.
> -She fails to mention if she has met him for coffee or had lunch with him,
> - The past couple of nights she has been upstairs and "online" as soon as I appear she goes "offline" then makes an excuse a few moments later to leave the room only to reappear "online"
> 
> I have brought this up & she got all moody, agitated & didn't want talk about it.
> 
> I have suggested we see a counsellor & she says I need to sort myself out for me & seems to think I just need to speak to someone.
> 
> She also said I don't need to move out but she does need time & space.


He's more than just a friend. Trust yourself on this. Just ask to see her phone. That will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## happyman64

> He's more than just a friend. Trust yourself on this. *Just ask to see her phone.* That will tell you all you need to know.


Macho

It is rarely just that easy. Especially since she has it locked with a passcode most likely.

And while it might take some time to get info the VAR and keylogger will most likely paint the picture he needs to see.'

And if his wife is having affair (I think she is) then he can confront with all the facts. He can also choose to blow up the affair with that information so their families and friends really know what is going on.

Keep going in the right direction W79.

Investigate.
Get the info.
keep up the 180 to detach and get strong on your own.
Focus on you and the boys.

And guess what? Your wife will screw up. You will catch her. 

She says she needs time & space? Well with your work schedules she has all the time she needs for her boyfriend.

Keep posting.

HM


----------



## worried79

If and when I do discover the truth & I inform everyone about it do I walk out with the kids, go to my mums and stop paying the mortgage??
I can't afford to leave and keep paying it. 
Also I would have to reduce my work hours to do the school runs as she does this. 
I know this is a stupid idea but Reducing hours would be a wage drop & not paying the mortgage would kind of balance things out. 
It would mean bankruptcy for me if I default on the mortgage. 
If I confront her would she crack/ breakdown & beg for forgiveness??
I can honestly say now I would stupidly forgive her and try patch things up. 
I know everyone here would say not to but she is my life & I love her with all I have.


----------



## MattMatt

worried79 said:


> If and when I do discover the truth & I inform everyone about it do I walk out with the kids, go to my mums and stop paying the mortgage??
> I can't afford to leave and keep paying it.
> Also I would have to reduce my work hours to do the school runs as she does this.
> I know this is a stupid idea but Reducing hours would be a wage drop & not paying the mortgage would kind of balance things out.
> It would mean bankruptcy for me if I default on the mortgage.
> If I confront her would she crack/ breakdown & beg for forgiveness??
> I can honestly say now I would stupidly forgive her and try patch things up.
> I know everyone here would say not to but she is my life & I love her with all I have.


Do not confront too early. That rarely works.

Also, don't move out.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

No!! She wants out- she can move out. She's having an affair - she can move out.

* Do not give up your house. Do not give up your kids. * Give up your wife? Your call.

You can forgive her and stay with her. There is no shame in that. However, if it was me, she would need to show me 100% remorse, regret, and complete truth, timeline, and transparency. I would need to know all particulars up to but excluding the positions they used.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## worried79

Well......
She left the room for a couple of minutes earlier and I managed to get a quick look at her Whatsapp & read the last 4/5 messages, also managed to take a picture of it with my phone. 
it's pretty much confirmed my doubts and hit me real hard. 
I still wanna get the full thing though to have even more evidence for when I properly confront her. 

What should I do now??


----------



## MattMatt

worried79 said:


> Well......
> She left the room for a couple of minutes earlier and I managed to get a quick look at her Whatsapp & read the last 4/5 messages, also managed to take a picture of it with my phone.
> it's pretty much confirmed my doubts and hit me real hard.
> I still wanna get the full thing though to have even more evidence for when I properly confront her.
> 
> What should I do now??


Follow the expert advice of Weightlifter here:-
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


----------



## worried79

I read the thread earlier & have taken some good notes,

Her parents are over next weekend, do I get my sister to take my boys out for a while a confront her in front of her parents?? Would this remove the FOG and bring her to see sense??


----------



## MattMatt

worried79 said:


> I read the thread earlier & have taken some good notes,
> 
> Her parents are over next weekend, do I get my sister to take my boys out for a while a confront her in front of her parents?? Would this remove the FOG and bring her to see sense??


*Do not confront her without evidence!*

Evidence that is copied and kept off site in several locations.


----------



## worried79

I hope I can get slot more evidence this week & it will be stored safe and on 3 or more usb sticks.


----------



## FormerSelf

Worried, it depends on what you want to do. If you want to try to save the marriage, you must continue 180 behaviors. An affair MERITS a confrontation. You can u can do this face to face, but a well thought our drafted letter can do the job if you think it won't go well. Here are some samples:

Sample Consequences Letters | AFFAIRCARE

The point is that you need to communicate that you unquestionably know about the affair, you are sorry for your falt, but this no way merits the destruction that she is creating through cheating. Let her know that you will give her the 100% freedom to make her choice, her decision. Let her know you hope to salvage things, but as it stands, there are things that are unacceptable that need to STOP IMMEDIATELY...Affair ends, no contact (NC) communication is made, MC is a MUST, and there must be 100% accountability. I would also suggest an in-home separation until things get reconciled. 

If however, she refuses to work with you then you need to insist that she moves out to her parents until further notice. Tell her that she is free to move in with OM...you won't stop her. If she wants to fight for the kids, then she can contact your lawyer.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

What exactly did you find?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Remember you don't need to prove to her she is having an affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## worried79




----------



## PhillyGuy13

Well there you go. Smoking gun as far as I'm concerned. "Hon" "beautiful" 

So what is your goal here ultimately? You want her back? Or gone?


----------



## lisamaree

They are definitely NOT JUST FRIENDS via that text. It's definitely an EA if not a PA by now.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

And you are a miserable sh!t??? Lol!!!!

Wife treating me like scum Id be miserable too.

I'd have to go for a long walk so I don't do something id regret after that.


----------



## Q tip

Instigate, isolate escalate are the strategies of the bad guy. 

She's into him. What do you want to do. Dump and D or see if you can break the spell and see if you want to R.

Expose far and wide. Friends, family for support. Cheaterville.com for him. What do you want.


----------



## worried79

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Well there you go. Smoking gun as far as I'm concerned. "Hon" "beautiful"
> 
> So what is your goal here ultimately? You want her back? Or gone?


As horrible as things are I want to save my marriage and would take her back. 
I am unsure if it's gone any further than this but I can't stop thinking about it now, I was done my so well mentally too and this has set me even further into depression. 
I'm laid here next to her wide awake And she's asleep. 
I want to get the full conversation from her phone before I confront her, but I don't know how I'll be acting around her tomorrow. I don't want to raise her suspicions of my prying just yet as I am getting a little closer. 

If I can get her phone for a few minutes I can open her whatsapp and email the conversation to myself but it's doing it and knowing I have the time to check the email sends and doesn't get left in her outbox. 
First off tomorrow is to buy fone lab and try it out on my phone then try and trick her into giving me her iCloud details, gonna wait till she's out and text saying the boys iPod needs sorting out and I have to remove it from her iTunes to put on mine. 
Failing that I'm thinking of buying An iPhone 4s that won't turn on and swapping it with hers so I can ****** off to download what I need from it. 
Will whatsapp work with sim removed???


----------



## PhillyGuy13

I don't know enough about swapping SIM cards and that stuff.

I will say I don't think there is a chance in heck she would give you her icloud password, no matter what excuse you came up with. 

Here's the facts.

She had told you she isn't in love with you.
She has a new friend /ONLY FRIENDS she says.
She is at least an EA (emotional affair) with him. I'd put odds of physical at about 80-85% at this point.

At THIS point, since you saw the WhatsApp texts, I would follow Macho's advice now and cool off on the clandestine activities. Do the 180 - I think that was linked here earlier. See an attorney Monday morning and begin the process of separation an divorce. Do not leave the house. She wants out she can leave the house. Kids stay in primary home. There is always a chance that the 180 will make her realize what she is giving up. But rememebr the 180 is for you to help you cope, detach, and move on. 

Divorces can be halted up until the papers are filed with the court. If she comes around and gives you transparency, honesty, time line and full disclosure you can always reconcile.

Frankly, I don't even know how you can lay there next to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Time to detach and think clearly about what you want.

You still don't know if you expose this affair that it will break their relationship.

With your work schedules, will this happen again?

You think she or you is capable of making sacrifice to place more time on the relationship?

Does she not love you anymore?

Most cases of waw, the wife does not return.

If you expose it, at least everyone will know, and it will prevent her from lying about you in the future.

She may feel ashame and leave, she might return, or she simply is done.

That is why you should detach a bit, and make a decision when your emotions are not swinging wildly.

If you have not doen so, do the 180.

You can still break the affair or try to, by exposing. If successful, still take the time and figure if you want a reconciliation or not.


----------



## worried79

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I don't know enough about swapping SIM cards and that stuff.
> 
> I will say I don't think there is a chance in heck she would give you her icloud password, no matter what excuse you came up with.
> 
> Here's the facts.
> 
> She had told you she isn't in love with you.
> She has a new friend /ONLY FRIENDS she says.
> She is at least an EA (emotional affair) with him. I'd put odds of physical at about 80-85% at this point.
> 
> At THIS point, since you saw the WhatsApp texts, I would follow Macho's advice now and cool off on the clandestine activities. Do the 180 - I think that was linked here earlier. See an attorney Monday morning and begin the process of separation an divorce. Do not leave the house. She wants out she can leave the house. Kids stay in primary home. There is always a chance that the 180 will make her realize what she is giving up. But rememebr the 180 is for you to help you cope, detach, and move on.
> 
> Divorces can be halted up until the papers are filed with the court. If she comes around and gives you transparency, honesty, time line and full disclosure you can always reconcile.
> 
> Frankly, I don't even know how you can lay there next to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks phillyguy,
I am struggling to stay here, my heart is beating so fast & I'm pretty much trembling constantly. Guess that's shock........ 
Like I say I love her so damn much it's crazy. 
I would forgive her at the drop of a hat. 
I need to sleep but can't at all.


----------



## NoChoice

Worried, does your wife take a shower? Does she take the phone in the shower? Please take some time and bolster yourself for what you may find. It may be even more unpleasant than what you already know.

If you really want R then you have to make her want it too. Invariably the only way to do that is to "shock" her awake so she can see the severity of what she is doing. So, when you have sufficient intel you need to expose to everyone. Nothing scares roaches and makes them scatter like bright light.

And, when the OM sees you may be done with her, suddenly this risky, covert encounter is not so much risky or covert anymore and the allure fades. Then she sees she is losing you, him, the kids, her home, it's a lot of reality to swallow. But brace yourself because this doesn't always work. Stay with the 180 no matter how tempted you are to buckle. Nothing makes a person want something more than not being able to have it. Be strong and take care of those boys. Good luck.


----------



## NoChoice

worried79 said:


> Thanks phillyguy,
> I am struggling to stay here, my heart is beating so fast & I'm pretty much trembling constantly. Guess that's shock........
> Like I say I love her so damn much it's crazy.
> *I would forgive her at the drop of a hat.*
> I need to sleep but can't at all.


DO NOT LET HER KNOW THAT. If you do she will carry on secure in the fact that if anything happens with the OM she can run home and be forgiven in an instant. In her mind that is incentive for her to continue NOT quit.


----------



## worried79

NoChoice said:


> Worried, does your wife take a shower? Does she take the phone in the shower? Please take some time and bolster yourself for what you may find. It may be even more unpleasant than what you already know.
> 
> If you really want R then you have to make her want it too. Invariably the only way to do that is to "shock" her awake so she can see the severity of what she is doing. So, when you have sufficient intel you need to expose to everyone. Nothing scares roaches and makes them scatter like bright light.
> 
> And, when the OM sees you may be done with her, suddenly this risky, covert encounter is not so much risky or covert anymore and the allure fades. Then she sees she is losing you, him, the kids, her home, it's a lot of reality to swallow. But brace yourself because this doesn't always work. Stay with the 180 no matter how tempted you are to buckle. Nothing makes a person want something more than not being able to have it. Be strong and take care of those boys. Good luck.


Thanks mate. 
Gonna try my best to put my brave face on tomorrow and carry on with the 180. 
Once I have the full whatsapp conversation I'll be able to confront her a give her the ultimatum & hopefully she will see the severity of what she's doing. 
As for seeing more in the conversation I know it'll hurt me more but my head won't stop making me want to read it. 

Thanks again.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

See the doc Monday morning as well. Just to get a little something that will help calm the nerves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IIJokerII

Since you have already accepted the reality of this you must follow up this ultimatum with consequences. You must prepare to strip mine your marriage for any and all materials that place the balance in your favor. Do not fall for the tears, the affection and anything else she throws at you, these are carefully guided actions to derail your anger and assertiveness. From start to finish, you will not relent to crying, laughing, hugging, kissing and do not let her engage you with make up sex. You will also start to experience something called hysterical bonding where your sex drive for her will skyrocket to epic proportions. As a fellow man I wish to tell you this can be your undoing as you will lose focus and sight of the situation. 

If you really want to save this you must burn the fog away, swiftly. So bring the heat.


----------



## FormerSelf

IIJokerII said:


> From start to finish, you will not relent to crying, laughing, hugging, kissing and do not let her engage you with make up sex. You will also start to experience something called hysterical bonding where your sex drive for her will skyrocket to epic proportions. As a fellow man I wish to tell you this can be your undoing as you will lose focus and sight of the situation.


:iagree:
YES. If wife buckles, (slim chance while she believes there is another lilypad waiting in the wings), but if she does buckle under your ultimatum...then stay with 180...no hysterical bonding!! No amount of crazy sex or trips to Tuscany together will wipe the slate clean...no...underneath you is a bubbling volcano of rage that you have not yet begun to experience. 

It is also unrealistic to assume that wife won't "miss" OM, no she will go through withdrawal and depression...and reach such a low point that they cannot feel anything except pain and loneliness. Many people, even after they give up on the affair, they still feel hopeless that things will change at home and still insist on divorce. This is why you stick with 180...pay attention to your areas of responsibility and don't do any emotional work for your wife. She has to deal with her own hell and consequences. 

Right now, it's all fun n' games, as she is having her little feelgood fling without consequences....and in her foggy foolishness...she has climbed to a certain height in her pride and conceit. She is caught in the disease of selfishness, yet is in denial about it...and will continue in this path until her decision really start to affect her so negatively that she can't ignore.

Do you know anything about the OM??


----------



## MattMatt

PhillyGuy13 said:


> See the doc Monday morning as well. Just to get a little something that will help calm the nerves.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is there an NHS Walk-in surgery near you? They can be open 8 'til 8 or something similar on a Sunday.


----------



## happyman64

worried

I cannot wait for you to hit the anger stage.

Because you should be pissed off at her.

Not only is she cheating on you but she is acting like you are stupid, dumb totally clueless.

get the evidence.

Then print it out and hand it to your inlaws.

You should also hand your wife divorce papers.

Just maybe that will wake her up. If not you are on your way to a new life.

Show her consequences.

Have you spoken to a lawyer?


----------



## worried79

FormerSelf said:


> IIJokerII said:
> 
> 
> 
> From start to finish, you will not relent to crying, laughing, hugging, kissing and do not let her engage you with make up sex. You will also start to experience something called hysterical bonding where your sex drive for her will skyrocket to epic proportions. As a fellow man I wish to tell you this can be your undoing as you will lose focus and sight of the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES. If wife buckles, (slim chance while she believes there is another lilypad waiting in the wings), but if she does buckle under your ultimatum...then stay with 180...no hysterical bonding!! No amount of crazy sex or trips to Tuscany together will wipe the slate clean...no...underneath you is a bubbling volcano of rage that you have not yet begun to experience.
> 
> It is also unrealistic to assume that wife won't "miss" OM, no she will go through withdrawal and depression...and reach such a low point that they cannot feel anything except pain and loneliness. Many people, even after they give up on the affair, they still feel hopeless that things will change at home and still insist on divorce. This is why you stick with 180...pay attention to your areas of responsibility and don't do any emotional work for your wife. She has to deal with her own hell and consequences.
> 
> Right now, it's all fun n' games, as she is having her little feelgood fling without consequences....and in her foggy foolishness...she has climbed to a certain height in her pride and conceit. She is caught in the disease of selfishness, yet is in denial about it...and will continue in this path until her decision really start to affect her so negatively that she can't ignore.
> 
> Do you know anything about the OM??
Click to expand...

Yeah he is a 30 yr old who still lives at home with his mum, he does approx 16hrs work a week behind the bar where the wife does a couple of shifts. He has hardly any friends and nothing about him, hell me and the wife have laughed and joked about him in the past. She used to work there a couple of years ago more often but now it can be 1 maybe 2 shifts a month and not always with him. 
I think the EA with him may have been going on for maybe 3 months, prior to this she never really had any contact with him. 

I didn't sleep at all last after just seeing that little bit of her whatsapp. 

Like you say it's time for action.


----------



## worried79

happyman64 said:


> worried
> 
> I cannot wait for you to hit the anger stage.
> 
> Because you should be pissed off at her.
> 
> Not only is she cheating on you but she is acting like you are stupid, dumb totally clueless.
> 
> get the evidence.
> 
> Then print it out and hand it to your inlaws.
> 
> You should also hand your wife divorce papers.
> 
> Just maybe that will wake her up. If not you are on your way to a new life.
> 
> Show her consequences.
> 
> Have you spoken to a lawyer?


I haven't spoken to a lawyer/solicitor as yet, my sister also says I need to. 
I need to get this evidence from her whatsapp 1st then I can start with my demands. 

As for my anger kicking in. I don't wanna get angry with her & I don't know if i could control myself when I see him, kicking off with him I will be the bad guy and he would get more sympathy. 

I want to have someone else approach him and tell him what he is doing and back the hell off.


----------



## worried79

Fone lab download in progress my plan to get her iCloud log in worked, I handed laptop to her so she could enter her own details & the keylogger did its job. . 
2.7gb to, I'm shaking like mad as it downloads. 

Just need to get her Facebook once she logs in on laptop but that could be a couple of days.


----------



## worried79

Well that's the download done but no whatsapp data. 
I take it she will need to have the back up function on, this must be off as default I guess. Damn it


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Was there anything else interesting that got picked up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Q tip

NoChoice said:


> DO NOT LET HER KNOW THAT. If you do she will carry on secure in the fact that if anything happens with the OM she can run home and be forgiven in an instant. In her mind that is incentive for her to continue NOT quit.


:iagree:

It's called rugsweeping. Cheating with no consequences. Expose to family and friends. That will help stop her. Exposure shines light on her activities. She hates the truth of light. All c0ckroaches hate light shined on them. Shock value. And helpful in shaming her with actual consequences. Helps break her from her fog. You'll gain their support and she'll know the game's up. Hopefully...

You cannot "nice" her back. Read MMSLP several times. 180 and go work out. Get buff.

Cheaterville.com can help.


----------



## Forest

worried79 said:


> I want to have someone else approach him and tell him what he is doing and back the hell off.


I wish I lived in the UK.

Something has been missing in my life since the OM (in my case) barricaded himself in a conference room.


----------



## NoChoice

Hang in there Worried. This is a process and it sucks bigtime but sadly you are not alone in this. Many others have preceded you down this dark road. Try, as best you can, to detach and focus on you and the boys. You are their rock in all of this. Mom is trying to nuke the family and you are the stabilizing force in their world, even though they don't know it.

Look, it will play out however it will and all your worry will only add pain and suffering to you. Plan, prepare and execute as calmly and rationally as possible. You have the objective of saving the family and she, destroying it, so do all you can but know that in the end, a lot of this is simply beyond your control.

You can work, BEHIND THE SCENES, on becoming a better H and being more attentive so that if she does come around your marriage will be stronger and if she doesn't, you can carry that over to your next relationship with someone who will appreciate it much more.

Once you get sufficient intel and expose, your family and her's may be able to help in your efforts to wake her up. However, any verbiage from you will only be taken by her as controlling and overbearing.

Also, you want to act as swiftly as is cautiously practical to prevent it from going physical, if it has not already. If it has not gone physical, you may have leverage with D because the fear of D may be keeping it non physical and that same fear may help open her eyes when faced with the reality of it. I hope so. Good luck sir.

16 hours a week tending bar and lives with Mom at 30....incredible.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

My two cents on confronting the OM. Didn't respond last night.

Whether you or a friend confront him, he will be all apologetic and swear up and down you got it all wrong and they are just friends and sure he will back off.

Then he will text your wife, they will have a good laugh at your expense (remember you are a miserable sh!t lol!!'). And then their relationship will be taken further underground.

So... Don't bother with him. You need to work on your wife. Expose to friends and family when you feel you are ready and file for divorce. (again I think you have enough based on what you found last night).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

worried79 said:


> If I confront her would she crack/ breakdown & beg for forgiveness??


Have you spent ANY time reading other threads?

Have fun with your spy-fest. I'll check in this time next year to see how it's going. But before I bow out, one little reminder of what this is all about:



worried79 said:


> About 3 weeks ago my wife told me she doesn't love me anymore & doesn't know if she still wants to be with me.


Good luck to you.


----------



## IIJokerII

Worried79,

You have your smoking gun, there is no need to look for the bullet casings. What you need to be doing is preparing to counter-attack this with everything you got. You know whats happening, and the abrasive feeling on your face is her wiping her feet on you........ Enough.


----------



## sammy3

Op, 

Think carefully about exposure. 

~sammy


----------



## worried79

sammy3 said:


> Op,
> 
> Think carefully about exposure.
> 
> ~sammy


I am doing, my head is still all over the place. 
Just need my evidence in place then I'll have to think hard on my next move.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/187689-please-help.html

Read this. Not the year and a half I predicted for you, but 7 months of worrying about his evidence instead of doing what he has to do. And he had more than you did to start. 

You're making excuses. Give her an ultimatum. Now.


----------



## **** off

Wooried.. 

Sorry you're going through this man.

I have been lurking this forum for 1,5 years now, but needed to make an account to inform you of this as nobody seem to suggest it.

The drfone program you've purchased(?) will let you get the whattsap conversations if you connect her phone to your computer and run a scan. You need the charger lead for this to connect. 

You will obviously need her phone for that, and depending on how much **** she got on it, can take anything from 15 mins to 1,5 hours completing and saving a scan result.

Night time is probably your best bet to get an uninterrupted search done, but if she were to find out underway, just tell her she can have her phone back once you're finished with it, without letting her in on exactly what you're doing. Tell her you are suspicious of her activities, and demand to look at her phone for a little while, but get that search done no matter what!

After info is gathered, let it all sink in, and make a plan on confronting, but DO NOT show her the evidence you now have stored on your PC. Write snippets of the conversations down on a paper if you must, or simply grab her phone and show her there if you find it. You've got nothing to be diligent about so be demanding and tell her to listen up and listen up good, or tell her to read my username.

Take care


----------



## worried79

Hi mate. 
Cheers for the input. 
Would this work even if the back up function isn't set up on her phone?

Also the main deal is getting her phone, even through the night it's setup so she would notice it's been touched but also she's a light sleeper. 
I should man up and just do it but it's not that simple to me. 

Hoping the keylogger I have will get me the facebook details today so I can get in there without locking her out & raising her suspicions of my paranoia. 

As for confronting, I have no plans do that as yet until I have more info from facebook, whatsapp, VAR & the apple tile app I've ordered. 

All my findings will be backed & stored at work as well as home. 

Thanks again,


----------



## **** off

Hi Matt

Yes, this should work nonetheless I believe. The program will extract whatever's stored in the phone. If it doesn't (which I have no reason to believe..) you've already seen bits and bobs and can use that together with timing of messaging and holes in the convo to determine whether you've got it all or not.

I know this is really hard to do, and no-one knows her routines better than you so it's impossibe to help you get this done in stealth mode, but try to take the ole 007 thing seriously, lay down a plan and execute, the sooner the better. Remember, the longer this goes unresolved the more you will suffer mentally, and physicly through sleep deprivation. 

When I had to do this at the beginning of the process, I was incredibly nervous and struggled to get her phone as she had it under her pillow while having her charger plugged in. 

I put on some black clothes, thick socks so I would be quiet walking close to her sleeping, wrapped up my already open laptop, plugged her charger lead into the laptop and placed it all under our bed. Pressed scan and never touched her phone while doing it. Only had to be aware that the laptop could shut down if left untouched for too long so move the mouse from a distance every once in a while. :lol:

Just make a realistic plan, find your own way and get it done already.

If she does catch you out taking her phone, demand to see it. She's your wife and 'shouldn't' have a problem with this. I'm sure she won't give up that easy then I'd either throw an ultimatum out there about seeing her phone right NOW, or I'd still take it and let her scream and shout as much as she pleases. She'll get it back once you're finished.

If she catches you putting it back in place, tell her you looked at it. Who cares? What do you owe her? You owe this to yourself mate.

Best of luck


----------



## **** off

Just read your edit, and I agree with your plan with the VAR and keylogger. Doing the phone thing first may spill your beans, but at the same time would force her to make mistakes your VAR and keylogger would pick up on. 

The only thing that's certain about all of this is that it's bloody draining.


----------



## worried79

I know that mine backs up to iCloud and got me details from mine when I tested it. 
If she hasn't changed her 4 digit lock code I can access her phone and change the setting in 14 seconds then use the iCloud as I did previously. 

Just gotta plan my moves and not draw too much attention to myself.

She has also removed the last seen fuction this morning on her whatsapp so I can't trace her now, this is either her getting onto me or been more devious.
No other reason than to try cover her tracks.


----------



## Q tip

Times better spent with a lawyer. Have her served and be done with it. She'll only (maybe) admit to what you prove to her. WTF, she knows more anyway. Will always minimize. So you'll never get all the details anyway.

Fone... Get up at 2:00 am and make a backup. iTunes to your PC. Then go back to sleep. Once you have the backup, you've got plenty of time.


----------



## ButtPunch

See a Dr. for anxiety meds. You will need your sleep.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

1 year, 9 months. But THIS TIME he's REALLY going to go through with it. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67182-should-i-ask-poly.html

Gather your evidence. Just don't make it an excuse not to act. Your wife is is in the process of leaving you for another man. You know it. I know it. Everyone on this site knows it. You need to put a stop to it.


----------



## worried79

ButtPunch said:


> See a Dr. for anxiety meds. You will need your sleep.


Yeah a trip to the Dr's is on the cards, I've been taking Kalms & Resue remedy, both work ok but when I get a major paranoia, anxiety & panic attack they're no good.


----------



## Working1

worried79 said:


> I don't have her password or hers for her log in on our laptop as we use 1 laptop it needs 2 users for iTunes.
> Getting her phone off her is near impossible & she would suspect something right away if I asked to plug it in.
> 
> I have considered buying an iPhone 4 that won't switch on at swapping it with hers so I can have hers to email her whatsapp content to myself.


you should do that. but make sure it doesn't notify her.


----------



## IIJokerII

MachoMcCoy said:


> 1 year, 9 months. But THIS TIME he's REALLY going to go through with it.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/67182-should-i-ask-poly.html
> 
> Gather your evidence. Just don't make it an excuse not to act. Your wife is is in the process of leaving you for another man. You know it. I know it. Everyone on this site knows it. You need to put a stop to it.


True dat muh fuggah!!!!

Kirk blew up his own ship to keep the enemy from winning!! What are you waiting for?!!


----------



## Working1

worried79 said:


> If and when I do discover the truth & I inform everyone about it do I walk out with the kids, go to my mums and stop paying the mortgage??
> I can't afford to leave and keep paying it.
> Also I would have to reduce my work hours to do the school runs as she does this.
> I know this is a stupid idea but Reducing hours would be a wage drop & not paying the mortgage would kind of balance things out.
> It would mean bankruptcy for me if I default on the mortgage.
> If I confront her would she crack/ breakdown & beg for forgiveness??
> I can honestly say now I would stupidly forgive her and try patch things up.
> I know everyone here would say not to but she is my life & I love her with all I have.



Dont damage your own credit! Why would you choose to self destructive? There are ways to get your own sense of control back,and you should do just that. Being self destructive will only bring damage to yourself and your kids. Damaging yourself will make you less attractive to her. It is also playing the victim and that will only go so far. Start thinking like a successful person and make good choices on every level. 

Things will improve for you if you live responsibly. People are drawn towards success, be that person. take care of your health, your finances and your kids.


----------



## Working1

worried79 said:


> If he turns out to be just a friend it proves I've been wrong in my suspicion and my mind has had me over thinking.
> Separating is the last thing I want to happen, I still love her like crazy & feel like I always will.
> I'd like to think seeing the MC will help me with my problems and then start to focus on us & if it means starting again with a lot of work to win her heart back well I'm more than prepared for that.


It won't turn out to be just a friend.


----------



## Working1

worried79 said:


> As horrible as things are I want to save my marriage and would take her back.
> I am unsure if it's gone any further than this but I can't stop thinking about it now, I was done my so well mentally too and this has set me even further into depression.
> I'm laid here next to her wide awake And she's asleep.
> I want to get the full conversation from her phone before I confront her, but I don't know how I'll be acting around her tomorrow. I don't want to raise her suspicions of my prying just yet as I am getting a little closer.
> 
> If I can get her phone for a few minutes I can open her whatsapp and email the conversation to myself but it's doing it and knowing I have the time to check the email sends and doesn't get left in her outbox.
> First off tomorrow is to buy fone lab and try it out on my phone then try and trick her into giving me her iCloud details, gonna wait till she's out and text saying the boys iPod needs sorting out and I have to remove it from her iTunes to put on mine.
> Failing that I'm thinking of buying An iPhone 4s that won't turn on and swapping it with hers so I can ****** off to download what I need from it.
> Will whatsapp work with sim removed???


anyone who is hiding their phone is never going to give you there apple id info.


----------



## badmemory

Working1 said:


> It won't turn out to be just a friend.


Have to agree. The familiarity of the texts, the opportunities to meet, the length of time they've been communicating, and all the other red flags - point to a PA. You should prepare yourself for just that. It should only surprise you if she can prove it's not.

When you do find the smoking gun, I would confront her progressively. Catch her in a lie, then disprove it. A tactical advantage for you in that she'll also realize you've exposed her as a liar, as well as a cheat.

One other peace of advice. You say you would forgive her immediately. But consider how different you may feel when it's proven to be a PA. Let the thought of your wife betraying her vows and having sex with another man sink in. Even if you would still want to R, give her a few weeks of uncertainty. Don't commit to anything until after you given it some thought and you determine how remorseful she is. 

Even if she were to beg you back the day you confront; she needs to "feel" the consequence; of thinking she's not just losing her husband, but losing him for cheating. If you forgive her too quickly, I promise you you'll have future regrets for her lack of consequences and for not testing her remorse enough.


----------



## Devastated an lost

Worried79 I'm so sorry that you're here. I was going through the same thing as you only 3 months ago. I didn't find TAM until after I caught my husband. There are some really good people here that will help you through this. I don't know what I would do without them. You can count on someone to always be here day or night. I don't have the wisdom to give you as I'm still learning myself. I just wanted to let you know you're in good hands here. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there & good luck..


----------



## worried79

badmemory said:


> Working1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It won't turn out to be just a friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Have to agree. The familiarity of the texts, the opportunities to meet, the length of time they've been communicating, and all the other red flags - point to a PA. You should prepare yourself for just that. It should only surprise you if she can prove it's not.
> 
> When you do find the smoking gun, I would confront her progressively. Catch her in a lie, then disprove it. A tactical advantage for you in that she'll also realize you've exposed her as a liar, as well as a cheat.
> 
> One other peace of advice. You say you would forgive her immediately. But consider how different you may feel when it's proven to be a PA. Let the thought of your wife betraying her vows and having sex with another man sink in. Even if you would still want to R, give her a few weeks of uncertainty. Don't commit to anything until after you given it some thought and you determine how remorseful she is.
> 
> Even if she were to beg you back the day you confront; she needs to "feel" the consequence; of thinking she's not just losing her husband, but losing him for cheating. If you forgive her too quickly, I promise you you'll have future regrets for her lack of consequences and for not testing her remorse enough.
Click to expand...

Thanks. 
That's some good advice.
if there does turn out to be an R, I will bear that in mind and act like you say.


----------



## worried79

Devastated an lost said:


> Worried79 I'm so sorry that you're here. I was going through the same thing as you only 3 months ago. I didn't find TAM until after I caught my husband. There are some really good people here that will help you through this. I don't know what I would do without them. You can count on someone to always be here day or night. I don't have the wisdom to give you as I'm still learning myself. I just wanted to let you know you're in good hands here. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there & good luck..


Thanks for the reply,
I have taken some great advice from these replies and it's good to know I have people here to listen And share their experiences.
It's a long dark road I'm on and I admit the thought of light at the end of it is looking less likely. 
I'm holding off my investigation for a couple of days and spending a couple of nights with my best mates who I have neglected over the last few months. 
Been out tonight bowling, drinking and talking has really helped. Hell I've missed it, almost felt normal for a few hours.


----------



## dgtal

Do not reveal your source of information. What ever happens say you hired a PI
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carmen ohio

worried79 said:


> Thanks phillyguy,
> I am struggling to stay here, my heart is beating so fast & I'm pretty much trembling constantly. Guess that's shock........
> *Like I say I love her so damn much it's crazy.
> I would forgive her at the drop of a hat. *
> I need to sleep but can't at all.


Dear worried79,

I just finished reading your thread and I'd like to add my two cents.

First, let me say how sorry I am that you find yourself having to deal with this. Whatever the state of your marriage before she began her affair and no matter what you could have done better, you are in no way responsible for her cheating. It is entirely on her.

Second, you are handling this much better than most guys who end up on TAM/CWI. I know you are hurting badly but you have already demonstrated the ability to control your emotions, make good decisions and handle extreme adversity. This means that, whatever happens, you are going to be OK.

Third (and I know this point has been made but I think it bears repeating), your cerebral cortex is your best friend and your limbic system is your worst enemy. You need to continue to make logically sound decisions avoid making any decisions based on your feelings for your WW. Listen to your rational mind and do your best to ignore your emotions.

Fourth, when the time comes to confront her about her affair, prepare carefully what you are going to say, do not get emotional (don't yell at or argue with her) and do more listening than talking. If you can do this, you will learn as much as possible about how deeply she is involved with the OM and the likelihood of a successful reconciliation.

- If she demonstrates remorse (a somewhat unlikely event), don't rush to forgive her but instead tell her that what she needs to do to earn a second chance (e.g., end the affair immediately and have no more contact with the OM, including writing a no contact to him, quitting her job, giving your access to all of her communications devices and social media channels, etc.).

- If (as is more likely) she is defiant, tries to deflect your accusations or rationalizes her actions, don't argue and above all don't beg her to stop cheating. Remain strong, letting her know that what she is doing is unacceptable to you. But don't tell her what you plan to do about it. Let her learn this in the fullness of time as you implement your plan.

Fifth, take care of yourself. Try to eat, sleep and exercise properly and carry on with your life in the usual fashion, going to work, taking care of your kids and spending time with family and friends while you continue to implement the so-called _'180.'_.

Finally, here is some advice that I gave to another OP on TAM/CWI about reconciliation. Some of it is repetitive but it may be helpful to none the less to see it all in one place:

1. No reconciliation is possible while the affair is on-going. Therefore, the first step is to end the affair. The WS promising to end the affair is often an insufficient reason to believe that the affair has ended because, in a significant percentage of cases, the WS either never stops cheating or goes back to cheating shortly after DDay. Therefore, the BS must take measures to ensure that the affair has ended. For this, see the Evidence Thread (Standard Evidence Post) which provides guidance on how the BS can monitor the WS's communications in order to determine if the affair is on-going.

2. In addition, in order to bring the affair to and end, it is generally recommended that the BS expose the WS's affair. Depending on the circumstances, this may include exposing to both spouses' families, friends, clergy and/or the WS's employer. It is also recommended that the BS expose the affair to the OM's or OW's significant other and/or family.

3. Once the affair has ended, the BS needs to decide what to do about the infidelity. Generally speaking, there are four courses of action: divorce, separation, maintaining the status quo (also known as 'limbo') and reconciliation.

4. Deciding which is the best course to take depends on a number of factors, including: a) whether the WS has admitted the affair, answered all of the BS's questions honestly and completely and demonstrated genuine remorse; b) the nature of the affair (e.g., how long it lasted, the degree of emotional and physical intimacy, the number of affairs); c) how long the BS and WS have been together; d) whether children are involved; e) the emotional health of the BS; and f) the mental health of the WS (i.e., whether he or she suffers from mental illness like BPD, an addiction and/or is abusive).

5. Whether to reconcile or not is solely a decision for the BS. In other words, the WS has no right to a reconciliation no matter how contrite he or she is or what the BS did wrong before the affair. A corollary to this is that the WS is solely responsible for the affair no matter what transpired previously in the marriage, because the WS always had the option of ending the marriage before cheating.

6. In order for reconciliation to be successful, the WS must be: a) contrite and honest about what he or she did; b) willing to answer all questions whenever and as often as they are asked; c) willing to give the BS access to all of his or her communication devices and channels; d) understanding and tolerant of the BS's grief, mental anguish and anger, looking for ways to help the BS recover and otherwise prepared to do the so-called 'heavy lifting.'

7. Reconciliation is a lengthy process, often taking years to accomplish, and may be unsuccessful despite the best efforts of both spouses. The BS may not be able to move past the WS's infidelity and forgive or may at some point decide that divorce is the better outcome for him or her. Affairs destroy trust and respect, the pillars of marriage. It takes a long time to rebuild these and they are unlikely ever to be restored completely.

Finally, there are a number of aphorisms that people use in an attempt to convey essential truths about reconciliation. I believe two of the most useful are:

> One must be willing to lose one's marriage in order to save it and

> The party who is most willing to end the marriage controls the reconciliation.

These are closely related points, differing mainly about when the are applicable -- before or after reconciliation begins. The point is that, if the BS is not prepared to divorce the WS, the WS has little reason to do the hard work that reconciliation requires, is likely to lose respect for the BS (especially when female infidelity is involved) and may be more inclined to cheat again.

One more point. You will receive a lot of advice on TAM/CWI. Most of it will be very good but some of it not. It's your job to decide which is which and then put the good advice into action.

- - -

I hope you find this (rather long) post useful.

Wishing you the best.


----------



## Sports Fan

Number 1 you should have a problem with her having friends of the opposite sex.

Number 2 dont ever let her guilt you that this is somehow your fault. She chose to go down this path, and will use any excuse to justify her action.

I would say there is possibly more than an Emotional Affair going on. 

The fact that she hides her phone, and online usuage should spell it all out to you.

I strongly suggest you buy 2 VAR's and hide one under her car seat and another in a room of the house you suspect she talks in.

Buy a program called webwatcher for the computer and a GPS for her car.

Do all this discreetly while playing dumb husband.

When affair is confirmed clean out any joint bank accounts and stop supporting her.

And above all do not move out. It will just give her the freedom to hook up with this guy even more and legally when the sh...it hits the fan it could be considered abondment by a judge.


----------



## Sports Fan

worried79 said:


> If and when I do discover the truth & I inform everyone about it do I walk out with the kids, go to my mums and stop paying the mortgage??
> I can't afford to leave and keep paying it.
> Also I would have to reduce my work hours to do the school runs as she does this.
> I know this is a stupid idea but Reducing hours would be a wage drop & not paying the mortgage would kind of balance things out.
> It would mean bankruptcy for me if I default on the mortgage.
> If I confront her would she crack/ breakdown & beg for forgiveness??
> I can honestly say now I would stupidly forgive her and try patch things up.
> I know everyone here would say not to but she is my life & I love her with all I have.


When you find out you absolotley stop supporting her. Take your boys and go and leave it up to the courts.

The last thing you want to do is enable her foul behavour by financing her cheating


----------



## commonsenseisn't

When you drop the bomb on her brace your nerves for anything. She could go any direction and you need to have a game plan for whatever she does.

For example, she might try to smooth things over with you by using sex to manipulate you. In this situation you wouldn't want to get her pregnant. It's happened to plenty of guys and many have sorely regretted it. 

Or she might fake remorse and take the affair underground and gaslight you into a soul sucking limbo. 

The common denominator for many of us betrayed spouses is we wish, in hindsight, that we had initially taken a harder stance with the cheating spouse. 

The strategies you will choose will be determined by the path you will choose with her, which in turn, will be determined by what is or isn't a deal breaker for you. 

Many folks in your shoes put themselves through limbo hell for too long only to realize it was a deal breaker all along and that they should have taken the tough stance right from the beginning. 

Try to wrap your mind and heart around what you will or won't forgive her for. This will help you to determine what path to take in the future. 

A lawyer is indispensable for this.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

worried79 said:


> As horrible as things are I want to save my marriage and would take her back.


Let me just blurt out what most of us are thinking...

BIG MISTAKE

You are destined to suffer horribly until you learn that you must be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it. 

I was once like you in this regard, but now I know better. Hope you don't have to learn this universal lesson as brutally as I did.


----------



## TRy

worried79 said:


> I'm holding off my investigation for a couple of days.


 You know enough already to know that she is cheating. When you confront do not let her know what you know. Just look her in the eye and say "I know for a fact that you are cheating with HIS_NAME. My question is, do you love him?" Ask this question and shut up. Do not justify or explain anything. If she does not answer the question and says anything else, again ask her "Do you love HIS_NAME yes or no"? For a variety of reasons she is more likely to answer this question truthfully than if you directly ask if she is cheating. You only get one chance at doing this right. Also, never tell her what you know. Just tell her that you know enough to be filing for divorce and that you do not need to prove anything to her that she already knows.


----------



## worried79

Has anybody tried the Teensafe monitoring software??


----------



## john1068

worried79 said:


> Has anybody tried the Teensafe monitoring software??


I have, and it works perfectly with IOS. As long as she backs up the iCloud, you'll get access to her current and deleted texts, phone calls, facebook activity. And she'll never know since no software is installed on her device. 

But if you can get her device long enough to ensure that her phone is set up to back up to the cloud. Also you can set her iphone up to be tracked by GPS, lots of possibilities on iphone (including looking at her photo stream in case she's taking inappropriate photos).

But dont waste your time with the free option, it won't give you more than 5 of the most current texts. Pay the monthly fee and you'll get a gold mine, but it won't include Whatsapp or viber, ets.


----------



## worried79

john1068 said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anybody tried the Teensafe monitoring software??
> 
> 
> 
> I have, and it works perfectly with IOS. As long as she backs up the iCloud, you'll get access to her current and deleted texts, phone calls, facebook activity. And she'll never know since no software is installed on her device.
> 
> But if you can get her device long enough to ensure that her phone is set up to back up to the cloud. Also you can set her iphone up to be tracked by GPS, lots of possibilities on iphone (including looking at her photo stream in case she's taking inappropriate photos).
> 
> But dont waste your time with the free option, it won't give you more than 5 of the most current texts. Pay the monthly fee and you'll get a gold mine, but it won't include Whatsapp or viber, ets.
Click to expand...

Cheers for the info,
It's the whatsapp stuff I need to access that's the trouble. 
I have Fonelab and the iCloud details but you need to plug the device in to the laptop to get the whatsapp content. 
Struggling with this one at the moment, I've bought a 3m sync lead & hope it may reach from my side of the bed to hers, I'll fasion it so it looks like her existing cable at her side but run it to a plug near me & then once she's asleep I'll plug it into the laptop.


----------



## wonderwhy

worried79 said:


> Cheers for the info,
> It's the whatsapp stuff I need to access that's the trouble.
> I have Fonelab and the iCloud details but you need to plug the device in to the laptop to get the whatsapp content.
> Struggling with this one at the moment, I've bought a 3m sync lead & hope it may reach from my side of the bed to hers, I'll fasion it so it looks like her existing cable at her side but run it to a plug near me & then once she's asleep I'll plug it into the laptop.


In my opinion, you are overdoing the investigation.
Your wife's behavior says it all.
The screenshots you posted out it over the top.
180, decide what you want to do, and do it now.....Your distrust of your wife, (warrented for sure), will not allow your relationship to grow healthier.

Just my opinion, lots of smart people here, Lots of good advice.
They have helped me a lot.


----------



## shellgames

Also do not tell her how you are snooping. Never ruin the chance to spy in the future in case reconciliation is an option. And do not get addicted to spying, it is hard to stop sometimes.


----------



## shellgames

If you give up how they will just take communication further underground.


----------



## shellgames

Free dr fone worked great for me. Watch out for the apple if email that says "such and such device was recently restored". Have to intercept that if checking the icloud backups.


----------



## worried79

shellgames said:


> Free dr fone worked great for me. Watch out for the apple if email that says "such and such device was recently restored". Have to intercept that if checking the icloud backups.


Thanks. 
Will the Dr Fone recover the whatsapp via iCloud? & also in the free trial version??
The Fonelab requires the phone connecting via cable for the whatsapp data.


----------



## **** off

I have only ever tried the dr fone one, which I bought the full version of.

I suggest you forget the whole icloud thing and just plug it in and do a scan like you intended with the new long lead.
I can guarantee you'll get the whatsapps then.

As far as I know, whenever the phone is synced, it overwrites every deleted item from before the last time it was synced. Meaning, you will only have access to whatever went on from her last sync to the latest sync. Might be a problem, IDK. So for me, the less syncing, the better.

One thing I'd like to warn about, but I don't know if this will be relevant to you and your wife's situation. Whenever you connect an iphone to a computer for the first time, it will ask for the phonelock code to be typed in. But since she uses itunes on the same computer, albeit different user, should let you past that point. 

I say grab the damn thing when she sleeps. If you manage without her noticing, complete the search, copy to computer, and put the phone back in place. She will never know.
IF she does wake up, tell her you're going to look at it and she'll have it back once you're finished. She is your wife, you'll do what you see fit with her phone, it's that simple.

If she wakes up when you put it back into place, either come with a lame excuse about using her flashlight, calling to find your own phone or whatever. My tip would be to tell her you looked at it, so what. Chances are after you've looked at it you won't really be that concerned with how she feels and you are damn right to do what you need to do. 
She knows this, you know this, she'll still call you psycko and controlling but will either wind it in and own whats going on or you will know for sure what her ultimate and final intentions are. 

There are endless if's and but's in these situations, but I feel it's time for you to do what you need to do for yourself my man.

Best of luck in whatever you choose to do.


----------



## Rugs

wonderwhy said:


> In my opinion, you are overdoing the investigation.
> Your wife's behavior says it all.
> The screenshots you posted out it over the top.
> 180, decide what you want to do, and do it now.....Your distrust of your wife, (warrented for sure), will not allow your relationship to grow healthier.
> 
> Just my opinion, lots of smart people here, Lots of good advice.
> They have helped me a lot.



I agree. Have you made a plan? How much evidence do you need?

I have a friend who's husband had a child with the other woman and it still wasn't enough. 

I'm worried for you.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Just a friendly reminder, as it happened to me today. I needed to update my credit card information on my iCloud account and Apple IDs. Just out of annoyance I have two Apple IDs and wasn't sure which ones are connected to my icloud account.

I signed into icloud under both IDs. Sure enough I got emails that I was logged in on another device (my laptop).

So again, anytime you touch an Apple ID be prepared to intercept and email.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Just a friendly reminder, as it happened to me today. I needed to update my credit card information on my iCloud account and Apple IDs. Just out of annoyance I have two Apple IDs and wasn't sure which ones are connected to my icloud account.
> 
> I signed into icloud under both IDs. Sure enough I got emails that I was logged in on another device (my laptop).
> 
> So again, anytime you touch an Apple ID be prepared to intercept and email.


These e-mails can be dealt w/ pretty handily by employing a pretty simple e-mail rule/filter.


----------



## GusPolinski

worried79 said:


> Thanks.
> Will the Dr Fone recover the whatsapp via iCloud? & also in the free trial version??
> The Fonelab requires the phone connecting via cable for the whatsapp data.


WDF will grab pretty much everything from the iCloud backups. Fair warning, though... *anytime* you fire it up and log into iCloud to pull down and export a backup, an e-mail will be sent to the e-mail account that is registered w/ the iCloud/iTunes account. And, though I have no direct knowledge either way, I'd have to believe that TeenSafe will trigger the same e-mail alert. (Thanks so much, random Internet d**chebags... you just HAD to see Kate Upton's boobs. Geez...)

Having said that, a simple e-mail filter/rule can be configured in order to dispatch these e-mails pretty handily.


----------



## worried79

GusPolinski said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> Will the Dr Fone recover the whatsapp via iCloud? & also in the free trial version??
> The Fonelab requires the phone connecting via cable for the whatsapp data.
> 
> 
> 
> WDF will grab pretty much everything from the iCloud backups. Fair warning, though... *anytime* you fire it up and log into iCloud to pull down and export a backup, an e-mail will be sent to the e-mail account that is registered w/ the iCloud/iTunes account. And, though I have no direct knowledge either way, I'd have to believe that TeenSafe will trigger the same e-mail alert. (Thanks so much, random Internet d**chebags... you just HAD to see Kate Upton's boobs. Geez...)
> 
> Having said that, a simple e-mail filter/rule can be configured in order to dispatch these e-mails pretty handily.
Click to expand...

Thanks. 
Still deciding what's the best course of action here. 
Also I'm unsure how to set up an email filter etc, so will read up on this. 

Thanks


----------



## old red

personally, i would confront her with what you have, and then demand to see her phone, emails, etc. if she does not immediately comply, then your relationship is over - a marriage can not operate without trust. i suspect you know this but are looking for ways to postpone this confrontation, which is understandable given what is at stake. however, i think that it is important that you think about the reasons why you are putting this off, in a deep manner. good luck.


----------



## worried79

old red said:


> personally, i would confront her with what you have, and then demand to see her phone, emails, etc. if she does not immediately comply, then your relationship is over - a marriage can not operate without trust. i suspect you know this but are looking for ways to postpone this confrontation, which is understandable given what is at stake. however, i think that it is important that you think about the reasons why you are putting this off, in a deep manner. good luck.


The reality is now slowly starting to kick in with me & it's a horrible horrible feeling. 
I want more evidence so I can pass it round her family & friends who have me down as an unapproachable, manic depressive, control freak after what she has told them and all along been hiding the truth from them too. 

To add fuel to my misery today is the 10th Anniversary of losing my dad & also my German Shepherd is very poorly.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

As you go about your little spy-fest, don't lose sight of the REAL issue, please.




worried79 said:


> About 3 weeks ago my wife told me she doesn't love me anymore & doesn't know if she still wants to be with me.
> 
> She says it's been brewing for a long time maybe a year & that it has all come to this for her fear of been able to talk to me...
> 
> She says I have become moody, unapproachable, controlling & she can't talk to me because of this.


Is all of this spying going to help any of that?


----------



## worried79

MachoMcCoy said:


> As you go about your little spy-fest, don't lose sight of the REAL issue, please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 3 weeks ago my wife told me she doesn't love me anymore & doesn't know if she still wants to be with me.
> 
> She says it's been brewing for a long time maybe a year & that it has all come to this for her fear of been able to talk to me...
> 
> She says I have become moody, unapproachable, controlling & she can't talk to me because of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Is all of this spying going to help any of that?
Click to expand...

I've held my hands up and agreed at times there has been point when I have been low but never felt I was unapproachable & would have always listened to her. 
I am on with seeking help for my depression, family & friends can see this but she is oblivious. It's hard for me to think where I need to begin too as I am now even more depressed.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

worried79 said:


> I am on with seeking help for my depression, family & friends can see this but she is oblivious.


Friend, I am not beating you up. Trust me. But when wives fall out of love with their husbands, it is usually for good. 

When my wife hit me with her reasons for not loving me any more, it changed me IMMEDIATELY. No way I was going to act like the kind of man that could force away someone I cared about so much. She was my life. I pulled a 180 and became a better person. 

BETTER, not perfect. 

I distinctly remember during a time we were supposed to be reconnecting. We were about 6 months in. We went to a movie together. Had a nice evening out. We were home and I made a comment. A joke. Not intended to demean her at all. She took it the wrong way. Went off on me. I realized then and there that she was never going to get over the emotional abuse I had put her through over the years. SIX MONTHS of being a better partner and I was back to square one.

That was when I REALLY started my 180. The 180 when you accept they are gone and no matter what you do to show them you've changed, the fear will always be there. My marriage was over. There was no going back. She will never got over her fear of me.



worried79 said:


> I'm 35...


And SO Lucky this all happened with your ENTIRE life still ahead of you. She wants this other guy, she can have him. Lick your wounds and move on. Become a better man for your kids and your future relationships. You still have a whole life to live. Do it for your kids.


----------



## worried79

MachoMcCoy said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am on with seeking help for my depression, family & friends can see this but she is oblivious.
> 
> 
> 
> Friend, I am not beating you up. Trust me. But when wives fall out of love with their husbands, it is usually for good.
> 
> When my wife hit me with her reasons for not loving me any more, it changed me IMMEDIATELY. No way I was going to act like the kind of man that could force away someone I cared about so much. She was my life. I pulled a 180 and became a better person.
> 
> BETTER, not perfect.
> 
> I distinctly remember during a time we were supposed to be reconnecting. We were about 6 months in. We went to a movie together. Had a nice evening out. We were home and I made a comment. A joke. Not intended to demean her at all. She took it the wrong way. Went off on me. I realized then and there that she was never going to get over the emotional abuse I had put her through over the years. SIX MONTHS of being a better partner and I was back to square one.
> 
> That was when I REALLY started my 180. The 180 when you accept they are gone and no matter what you do to show them you've changed, the fear will always be there. My marriage was over. There was no going back. She will never got over her fear of me.
> 
> 
> 
> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 35...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And SO Lucky this all happened with your ENTIRE life still ahead of you. She wants this other guy, she can have him. Lick your wounds and move on. Become a better man for your kids and your future relationships. You still have a whole life to live. Do it for your kids.
Click to expand...

Great advice & taken on board. 
As you know it's hard & yes im putting off the inevitable but it's probably down to the fact I don't want to hurt my boys. 
The last few weeks have been like I have died inside & I only hope I can't gain the strength very soon to lick my wounds and start the 180 fully. 

Thanks again


----------



## Forest

worried79 said:


> The reality is now slowly starting to kick in with me & it's a horrible horrible feeling.
> 
> 
> To add fuel to my misery today is the 10th Anniversary of losing my dad & also my German Shepherd is very poorly.


Just a little note that we've got a good supply of GSD fans around here, including me, so I know how bad it is to worry about such a faithful dog.

Sometime click over to The Social Spot, and look at "The Dog Thread".


----------



## Mr Right

worried79 said:


> Great advice & taken on board.
> As you know it's hard & yes im putting off the inevitable but it's probably down to the fact I don't want to hurt my boys.
> The last few weeks have been like I have died inside & I only hope I can't gain the strength very soon to lick my wounds and start the 180 fully.
> 
> Thanks again


Dude get to the Doctors and get something for the depression and give it a couple of weeks and you will be surprised how much better you feel. Start your 180 and start detaching and it makes things so much more bearable.


----------



## NoChoice

Worried,
The only reason we seem to be pushing you is because you've seen what your current method of dealing with this has done. Many on here have used the advice you're getting and the results speak for themselves. We are just trying to give you the nudge you need to make things better.

Your WW isn't going to just turn around on a dime and suddenly start acting differently, she needs motivation and the 180 can be that motivation. It also puts you on the road to independence and allows you to detach and see your life for what it really is, opportunity. Right now you see all the negative but there is much positive that you are overlooking and the sooner you realize that the sooner things will improve for you. Consider it.


----------



## worried79

NoChoice said:


> Worried,
> The only reason we seem to be pushing you is because you've seen what your current method of dealing with this has done. Many on here have used the advice you're getting and the results speak for themselves. We are just trying to give you the nudge you need to make things better.
> 
> Your WW isn't going to just turn around on a dime and suddenly start acting differently, she needs motivation and the 180 can be that motivation. It also puts you on the road to independence and allows you to detach and see your life for what it really is, opportunity. Right now you see all the negative but there is much positive that you are overlooking. Consider it.


Thanks. 
A good nudge is defo what I need right now.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

worried79 said:


> The last few weeks have been like I have died inside


No need to tell me brother. When I realized the love of my life was gone for good...


----------



## badmemory

worried79 said:


> I want more evidence *so I can pass it round her family & friends* who have me down as an unapproachable, manic depressive, control freak after what she has told them and all along been hiding the truth from them too.


Worried,

If you get more evidence, you would be well advised to protect it - for a number of reasons. Sending it out indiscriminately is not wise. Consider: 

- Potential legal issues from how you obtained it.

- The WS will know the cards you are holding. 

- For some friends and family; you may come off as petty and vindictive rather than sympathetic.

Only share the actual proof with someone if it's absolutely necessary. When you expose, just indicate that you have incontrovertible proof. Then decide on a case by case basis, who you need to share it with to convince them. And even then, only what little is needed.


----------



## worried79

badmemory said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want more evidence *so I can pass it round her family & friends* who have me down as an unapproachable, manic depressive, control freak after what she has told them and all along been hiding the truth from them too.
> 
> 
> 
> Worried,
> 
> If you get more evidence, you would be well advised to protect it - for a number of reasons. Sending it out indiscriminately is not wise. Consider:
> 
> - Potential legal issues from how you obtained it.
> 
> - The WS will know the cards you are holding.
> 
> - For some friends and family; you may come off as petty and vindictive rather than sympathetic.
> 
> Only share the actual proof with someone if it's absolutely necessary. When you expose, just indicate that you have incontrovertible proof. Then decide on a case by case basis, who you need to share it with to convince them. And even then, only what little is needed.
Click to expand...

Sitting back and thinking logically this is a better idea, most of my posts are done when I'm very low & not thinking right.


----------



## badmemory

worried79 said:


> Sitting back and thinking logically this is a better idea, most of my posts are done when I'm very low & not thinking right.


Not to worry bro. That's why we're here. We've got your back.


----------



## Suspecting2014

First of all, I am sorry you are here.



The best way to lose your wife and marriage is keep doing nothing.

As you can read at TAM, the larger success rate for coping infidelity and heading to R is when the BS confronts and exposes, besides to make clear that the affair situation will not be tolerated any longer.



IMO you should confront and expose ASAP before their relation became more emotional and even physical, if not already.



In other hand, knowing that the affair is going on and doing nothing about it, acting just like a mute viewer will kill you!!!!



You look like a good guy, at your situation this is not a good thing, and need to change.



The faster way to get your wife back is show her you can be without her! She has taken you for granted and thatâs why she feels entitled to the affair, when her perception changes she will realize what she could lose.



Sorry for my English, is not my first language.


----------



## worried79

Well after a week from Hell I'm back here. 
Wednesday was the 10th Anniversary of my Dads death & Thursday I had to have my Dog put to sleep. 

Anyway back to the WW, I now have all the evidence I need but struggling to break my boys hearts by acting on it. 
I followed her in Friday and she was at his then lied to me when I asked her. 
I also managed to hook a 3m iPhone sync cable upto her phone and get yesterday's whatsapp conversation. 
Yeah it's not just an EA, don't think anything other than kisses & cuddles has happened but that's enough. 

Just need to do something about it now.


----------



## italianjob

worried79 said:


> Well after a week from Hell I'm back here.
> Wednesday was the 10th Anniversary of my Dads death & Thursday I had to have my Dog put to sleep.
> 
> Anyway back to the WW, I now have all the evidence I need but struggling to break my boys hearts by acting on it.
> I followed her in Friday and she was at his then lied to me when I asked her.
> I also managed to hook a 3m iPhone sync cable upto her phone and get yesterday's whatsapp conversation.
> Yeah it's not just an EA, *don't think anything other than kisses & cuddles has happened but that's enough*.
> 
> Just need to do something about it now.


Denial is a powerful thing.
They're not high school teenagers. Adults don't meet in secret for "just" kisses & cuddles... C'mon man...

What do u plan to do now?


----------



## worried79

italianjob said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well after a week from Hell I'm back here.
> Wednesday was the 10th Anniversary of my Dads death & Thursday I had to have my Dog put to sleep.
> 
> Anyway back to the WW, I now have all the evidence I need but struggling to break my boys hearts by acting on it.
> I followed her in Friday and she was at his then lied to me when I asked her.
> I also managed to hook a 3m iPhone sync cable upto her phone and get yesterday's whatsapp conversation.
> Yeah it's not just an EA, *don't think anything other than kisses & cuddles has happened but that's enough*.
> 
> Just need to do something about it now.
> 
> 
> 
> Denial is a powerful thing.
> They're not high school teenagers. Adults don't meet in secret for "just" kisses & cuddles... C'mon man...
> 
> What do u plan to do now?
Click to expand...

I know dude but it's hard to think about hurting my kids that way. 

Gotta have a serious think about it now.


----------



## RV9

worried79 said:


> I know dude but it's hard to think about hurting my kids that way.
> 
> Gotta have a serious think about it now.


What the situation needs is either to end the affair or the marriage. Whatever you do, don't let the whole thing linger. Lingering makes it painful and irreparable.


----------



## Divinely Favored

She is the one who has hurt your kids....Don't you dare take that blame!


----------



## italianjob

RV9 said:


> What the situation needs is either to end the affair or the marriage. Whatever you do, don't let the whole thing linger. Lingering makes it painful and irreparable.


This^^^^^^^^

letting it be won't make it go away. You're not the one hurting the kids, she is, and the damage is done already.


----------



## worried79

Divinely Favored said:


> She is the one who has hurt your kids....Don't you dare take that blame!


Yeah I know, how she has hurt me and the thought it'll hurt them so much is unbearable. I could never imagine doing that to her, she has changed so much over the last few weeks I barely know her.


----------



## RV9

Start writing a journal. Even better, pm a mod and transfer your thread to private. Put your thoughts in posts. Let us hold your hand during these dark times. 

Be civil in interactions. Carry a var at all times. Don't let her engage you in drama. As long as she feels she can play you, things would deteriorate. Check out 180 and engage in it asap. Don't think how she will view your actions. Think more about how you might view them. 

Something you should know - she stepped out. The woman you knew, the marriage you had is gone. Mourn it, but don't pray for it's resurrection. It'll save you and your children a lot of pain in the long run. Your emotions are all over the place. All you might have in your head is her and the affair. Don't neglect your children emotionally. Their mom is in lala land now. Let them have their dad. 

Be strong.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Worry,

As I believe you wanna go for R, this is IMO what you should do.

1.- Confront ASAP but consider this, never reveal how much you know and how you got it, this is very important to get the whole truth and keep monitoring if needed. Tell her you are filing for divorce and tell her that she should go. As you can read in TAM the best way to slap the WW out form fog to reality is go nuk. Remember that asking for divorce, even serving her doesnt mean you are actually divorcing her. divorce is a process and takes long time.

2.- Expose big time, this must be done ASAP to break the affair, once the affair is not a secret any more it will become less fun and something dangerous in their mind, besides when family, close friend and coworkers know she wont have anyone to support her about the affair telling then a twisted version of what is going on. If OM is married, expose as well to his wife, this will kill the affair in that moment.

Remember, she will be mad about exposing, you need to be madder. Once she is out the fog her perception will change.Dont be weak and dont let her mamipulat you or set rules, this is very important as you be man up and she will notice.

As long as you wait, the stronger their relations is getting, act NOW.

Good luck


----------



## carmen ohio

worried79 said:


> Yeah I know, how she has hurt me and *the thought it'll hurt them so much is unbearable.* I could never imagine doing that to her, she has changed so much over the last few weeks I barely know her.


worried79,

This is just silly. True, your children won't be happy to learn what's going on, but in no way will they be hurt the way you have been. Your kids will get through this, as they will still have two parents who love them.

In fact, you need to stand up and act like a man, not just for youself but also for your kids. You are their male role model.

Don't use your fear as an excuse to do nothing. That would be the unfairest thing you could do to your children.


----------



## worried79

Morning, 
Well I plucked up the courage to bring up her affair last night. 
I gave her the ultimatum, it's me & the boys or him. 
She ended it with him and removed him from her facebook etc.....
I could tell it hurt her & know things aren't going to be easy but I want to Reconcile this marriage. 
She eventually admitted to it and told me what had gone on. 
It got to a physical stage 2 weeks ago after they kissed when she dropped him off & then 2 other occasions when they kissed & that was it. I do believe her when she says that's all that happened, I gutted me to hear it & she knew it. 
It was tough, really tough but we talked a lot and have agreed to try repair what is left of the relationship for both our sakes as well as the boys. 
We're going to counselling this week and I know it's not going to be easy and an instant fix isn't available. 

Thanks for all the great advice, it's really helped and seen me through a time when I thought my life was over. 
I'll be back to keep things updated on the progress.


----------



## GusPolinski

worried79 said:


> Morning,
> Well I plucked up the courage to bring up her affair last night.
> I gave her the ultimatum, it's me & the boys or him.
> She ended it with him and removed him from her facebook etc.....
> I could tell it hurt her & know things aren't going to be easy but I want to Reconcile this marriage.
> She eventually admitted to it and told me what had gone on.
> It got to a physical stage 2 weeks ago after they kissed when she dropped him off & then 2 other occasions when they kissed & that was it. I do believe her when she says that's all that happened, I gutted me to hear it & she knew it.
> It was tough, really tough but we talked a lot and have agreed to try repair what is left of the relationship for both our sakes as well as the boys.
> We're going to counselling this week and I know it's not going to be easy and an instant fix isn't available.
> 
> Thanks for all the great advice, it's really helped and seen me through a time when I thought my life was over.
> I'll be back to keep things updated on the progress.


Has she shown your her phone? How about her FB account? Has anything been deleted or removed? If so...

SHE. IS. STILL. LYING.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> Morning,
> Well I plucked up the courage to bring up her affair last night.
> I gave her the ultimatum, it's me & the boys or him.
> She ended it with him and removed him from her facebook etc.....
> I could tell it hurt her & know things aren't going to be easy but I want to Reconcile this marriage.
> She eventually admitted to it and told me what had gone on.
> It got to a physical stage 2 weeks ago after they kissed when she dropped him off & then 2 other occasions when they kissed & that was it. I do believe her when she says that's all that happened, I gutted me to hear it & she knew it.
> It was tough, really tough but we talked a lot and have agreed to try repair what is left of the relationship for both our sakes as well as the boys.
> We're going to counselling this week and I know it's not going to be easy and an instant fix isn't available.
> 
> Thanks for all the great advice, it's really helped and seen me through a time when I thought my life was over.
> I'll be back to keep things updated on the progress.


This is just the begining...

About contact with OM,

She sould leave her job, and avoid him in averysingle way. Of course they can not keep being friends!!! this is not just my opinion, this is amust as you can read in TAM.

She should sent a NC letter, and have not further contact with him anymore, tis is cvery important as the have develop and EA and wont be easy for her to keep away. Fuul transparency is a must (passwords, movilphone, etc).

Exposing at his point is a critical step, you need to get nuk with OM to keep him away, otherwise he will contact her again and again.

Good job and well done.

PS Cheaters lie to protect their selfs and hurting BS´s, IMO not jut kissing took place...


----------



## worried79

Yes seen the phone & she is handing her notice in today at the bar job.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> Yes seen the phone & she is handing her notice in today at the bar job.


Good, 

Keep reading and learning!

Just one thing, EXPOSE the OM to his wife.

At this moment, maybe your wife has told you that it is not worth it, that destroy her family wont fix anything...this couldnt be more wrong.

1.- this way you garatee that they are not longer in contact
2.- OMW has the rigth to know what happened.

EXPOSE is a must


----------



## italianjob

worried79 said:


> Morning,
> Well I plucked up the courage to bring up her affair last night.
> I gave her the ultimatum, it's me & the boys or him.
> She ended it with him and removed him from her facebook etc.....
> I could tell it hurt her & know things aren't going to be easy but I want to Reconcile this marriage.
> She eventually admitted to it and told me what had gone on.
> It got to a physical stage 2 weeks ago after they kissed when she dropped him off & then 2 other occasions when they kissed & that was it. I do believe her when she says that's all that happened, I gutted me to hear it & she knew it.
> It was tough, really tough but we talked a lot and have agreed to try repair what is left of the relationship for both our sakes as well as the boys.
> We're going to counselling this week and I know it's not going to be easy and an instant fix isn't available.
> 
> Thanks for all the great advice, it's really helped and seen me through a time when I thought my life was over.
> I'll be back to keep things updated on the progress.


Reading your post, it sounds like she surrendered quite easily. This is not common and it might mean that the fog effect was already wearing off (maybe she was even considering ending the affair on her own), or that she's planning to take the affair underground. You should keep your eyes open.

Everybody here at TAM knows what cheaters mean by "kissing". If you want to forgive no matter what you may not dig deeper but 1. She should be tested 2. This might come back to haunt you in the future


----------



## Tobyboy

Remorse? Has she shown any?
Demand full transparency!
Std testing!!
No contact letter!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## worried79

Suspecting2014 said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes seen the phone & she is handing her notice in today at the bar job.
> 
> 
> 
> Good,
> 
> Keep reading and learning!
> 
> Just one thing, EXPOSE the OM to his wife.
> 
> At this moment, maybe your wife has told you that it is not worth it, that destroy her family wont fix anything...this couldnt be more wrong.
> 
> 1.- this way you garatee that they are not longer in contact
> 2.- OMW has the rigth to know what happened.
> 
> EXPOSE is a must
Click to expand...

The OM is a single lad who lives with his mum.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> The OM is a single lad who lives with his mum.


Well, just keep an eye on him.

Any how you should talk to him to make clear that you know waht happened and tell him to **** off. You can also ask him about the affair, threaten him on telling his mon and frinds...

Dont let your wife spoke to him ever again


----------



## Q tip

Cheaters are liars. Kissing is cheater speak for at least oral sex. Twice means many times.

Get her and you tested for STDs. DNA the kids. Don't argue you know they're yours. It's for Shock value that this is bloody serious. 

She is likely trickle truthing. Minimizing to hide the truth. You've not heard it all. Just what she wants you to hear.

No consequences for her means more of the same.

Expose to family and friends. Expose to his mom too. Maybe get info from him first. He'll just lie about it. Then expose anyway.


----------



## G.J.

worried79 said:


> *I followed her in Friday and she was at his then lied to me when I asked her. *
> .


Only kissing and cuddling
I really don't see that do you


----------



## OldWolf57

dude, stick with the thread daily. This is just the beginning.

That lil remorse is tricking you.
Yeah go to MC, but find one the deals with cheating. 
There are to many horror stories of bad MC's doing more harm than good.

So stick around and let the Vets here be your sounding board.

Oh, and she is still lying, you've been TTed.


----------



## john1068

*Re: Re: Advice needed, totally devasted*



GusPolinski said:


> WDF will grab pretty much everything from the iCloud backups. Fair warning, though... *anytime* you fire it up and log into iCloud to pull down and export a backup, an e-mail will be sent to the e-mail account that is registered w/ the iCloud/iTunes account. And, though I have no direct knowledge either way, I'd have to believe that TeenSafe will trigger the same e-mail alert. (Thanks so much, random Internet d**chebags... you just HAD to see Kate Upton's boobs. Geez...)
> 
> Having said that, a simple e-mail filter/rule can be configured in order to dispatch these e-mails pretty handily.


This is part of Apples new security enhancement that rolled out in September. It will only trigger the email once from each new device and if you select "keep me logged in" while logging in it will not resend the emails on future log ins.

I'll test the TeenSafe and see if it sends every time. Whatsapp and Viber etc are not included in the icloud backup.

Whatsapp backs up every night to the Whatsapp folder in Android. Deleted messages can be recalled by uninstalling Whatsapp and then reinstalling it. Of course, you have to have the phone in your hand to do that.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

Great news. Almost too good to be true...


----------



## syhoybenden

worried79 said:


> The OM is a single lad who lives with his mum.



Tell his mummy.


----------



## verpin zal

Boyo, this woman of yours was willing to throw away her vows, your and the kids lives for a guy that was not you. Physics laws of the known universe say that her new relationship will not be over after just one talk and ultimatum. It just can't, and just because. Your wife is still lying.

Trust us.


----------



## RV9

OP, this is the worst time you will go through. It's because you have two options now none of which are appealing - stay and try to salvage or bail out. Whichever you choose, you would be afraid that it may be wrong. Best thing to do now is wait and see if your wife is remorseful. Detach asap. It'd help you in differentiating between remorse and regret. Don't rugsweep. Get to the bottom of why did she do it. Don't take blame on yourself for her affair. And yes, expose the OM. 

Keep snooping. You can't trust her.


----------



## Q tip

Consider a plan and strategy...

This is chess, not checkers.

Talk to a lawyer, have her served with D papers. You need leverage on her. 

Only if she shows true remorse, snot bubbling, tears, crying, shrieking, on the floor at your feet convulsing should you possibly consider R.

She needs to do ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING. YOU CAN CANCEL the D anytime you know. Keep it running. You have the right to D her at any time. Next week or 5 years from now, for any reason. She has no vote on this. She lost her vote when she stepped out on your marriage. 

Expose to everyone. Family and friends. And OM mommy so she can spank him. 

She owes you everything. R is a gift of one chance. From you to her. She must earn it every day.

Protect your finances, get separate accounts from her. 

Head for the Gym and work out. Get buf. Lose all your fat. Read and memorize MMSLP. 

Take action, go caveman or you will lose whatever respect she might still have for you.

Wake up! Man up. Grow a pair. Be decisive with this and with your life.

Right now she is a toxin poisoning what's left of your family. Worst case, you need to pull the plug to protect your children from this evil.


----------



## NoChoice

Worried,
It's really very simple now. If your WW is TRULY interested in repairing the marriage then anything you need to heal will be okay with her. Transparency, NC, new job, all of it she will do without hesitation. If she is not sincere in her effort to save your marriage then she will balk and complain and offer resistance instead of enthusiasm. You can gauge her true desire by either her willingness to comply or her refusal to completely acquiesce. Then you will need to decide your next move. I also agree that there could be more than she is telling you and TOTAL honesty is critical to success and is telling as to her true desire to save the marriage.


----------



## Q tip

VAR the car and your home in places/rooms she goes to talk. Weightlifter s sig has a PhDs level of evidence gathering. Follow it.

In this case, trust is earned, never given.


----------



## Forest

Is she worth the effort and frustration? Really?

Sadly, the family unit is the part that you are worried with preserving. No one wants to bust it up. The fact the your "wife" has focked up the whole business is inequitable, and dumped in your lap.

If you have no doubt the kids will be better served with maintaining this woman, I guess you have to try.

If you sense its a losing battle, pay attention.


----------



## Intheknow

"We only kissed"
Translation- "We did more than kiss"
"We only cuddled"
Translation - " We had sex"

2 Adults who are alone and are excited to be together after nights and weeks and months of flirting, planning and even talking ****e about you being a chump are not going to just kiss...or cuddle...

The OM is in his 30's and has been persuing your wife, not as a friend but for sex. He's a guy! He knows shes married and unhappy! Of course he's going to use this to get in her pants.

She is an adult woman, who says she doesnt love you, and has been in this fantasy romance with someone who she has given affection and expressed interest in. Married women dont go to another mans house to be alone with him and get some kissing and cuddling.

Dont be stupid. Dont give up your info sources and keep recording in car and house. Record your conversations about affair without her knowing. (If story changes, you have a record not a faulty memory.

Get the full story. Then keep monitoring. Its been 1 year since dday and I still monitor her while we are in MC. Iphone app "Find my phone" installed and tracks her whn i log into icloud on computer. Keyloggers, and synched web browsers shows me history of sites, searches etc.

I trust that its over, but I verify because he still works with her. 

Man up, get counseling for yourself, and realize that R is not a certainty. Do not let her blame you for her wandering and detachment. She should have had the insight to talk to you when she started to lose feelings for you, not keep quiet and look for someone else.

Do not believe anything she says, and believe only half of what she does.

Go to Chumplady.com

Cheers mate, hope it works out


----------



## Sports Fan

worried79 said:


> Yeah I know, how she has hurt me and the thought it'll hurt them so much is unbearable. I could never imagine doing that to her, she has changed so much over the last few weeks I barely know her.


Your wife has changed cause unfortunately she is in the affair fog. If you want to have any hope of snapping her out of this only a full 180 on your behalf where she realsies you will sell the house and all might work on saving your marriages.

Sorry you are going through this. I know your pain.


----------



## happyman64

W79

Your life is not ending but just beginning.

Keep taking control of your marriage and family.

More than ever you need to be the leader, the man, the husband and the father.

HM


----------



## MachoMcCoy

worried79 said:


> About 3 weeks ago my wife told me she doesn't love me anymore & doesn't know if she still wants to be with me.


You still didn't address this. Or is the logic that it was just the affair fog that made her say that?


----------



## worried79

MachoMcCoy said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> About 3 weeks ago my wife told me she doesn't love me anymore & doesn't know if she still wants to be with me.
> 
> 
> 
> You still didn't address this. Or is the logic that it was just the affair fog that made her say that?
Click to expand...

I am thinking that her thoughts have been impaired by the fact she has become so close to him, she said she can't just am change the way she feels about me at the flick of a switch. 
I see what she is saying and understand but my way of thinking is that as long as he is part of our relationship she won't even be able to think about let alone how she feels about me. 

People have mentioned about a letter of no contact, how should this be worded?
Would it need signing by a solicitor or legal type person??


----------



## IIJokerII

worried79 said:


> I am thinking that her thoughts have been impaired by the fact she has become so close to him, she said she can't just am change the way she feels about me at the flick of a switch.
> I see what she is saying and understand but my way of thinking is that as long as he is part of our relationship she won't even be able to think about let alone how she feels about me.
> 
> People have mentioned about a letter of no contact, how should this be worded?
> Would it need signing by a solicitor or legal type person??


 Unless a threat or possible harassment from the OM exists getting this notarized is useless, it is more of a visual act of committing to a relationship. It serves you to at least provide the perception that she has chosen you in lieu of him, and it serves her to provide perception to exactly the harm it has caused as well as the first and final point of contact telling the AP that it is over and need no further contact. 

She is right in telling you she can't flick on the love switch, however she can place herself in situations with you as a friend would and just take it one day at a time. 

Kill the affair and you'll be alright....... For now.


----------



## worried79

I'd like to think that with him out of the equation we can start to communicate & talk again then maybe become friends again like you say. 
I know it's going to be a long process and she has to get over her feelings for him before we can rebuild our relationship. 
I'm expecting things will get worse before they get better. 
I'm a believer in never say never so let's see what happens, I know what has happened this weekend is a very small step forward.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> I am thinking that her thoughts have been impaired by the fact she has become so close to him, she said she can't just am change the way she feels about me at the flick of a switch.
> I see what she is saying and understand but my way of thinking is that as long as he is part of our relationship she won't even be able to think about let alone how she feels about me.
> 
> People have mentioned about a letter of no contact, how should this be worded?
> Would it need signing by a solicitor or legal type person??


IMO, the main issue here is what came fist, the Affair or the lack of feeling.

When WW are in the fog, they convence her self to believe they dont care about heir spouses any more, once out the fog they see thing as they really are.

Very importanto to know this!!


----------



## worried79

Suspecting2014 said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am thinking that her thoughts have been impaired by the fact she has become so close to him, she said she can't just am change the way she feels about me at the flick of a switch.
> I see what she is saying and understand but my way of thinking is that as long as he is part of our relationship she won't even be able to think about let alone how she feels about me.
> 
> People have mentioned about a letter of no contact, how should this be worded?
> Would it need signing by a solicitor or legal type person??
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, the main issue here is what came fist, the Affair or the lack of feeling.
> 
> When WW are in the fog, they convence her self to believe they dont care about heir spouses any more, once out the fog they see thing as they really are.
> 
> Very importanto to know this!!
Click to expand...

The lack of feeling came 1st as I feel we drifted apart over the par few months due to busy work/relationship/family balance. 
Her friendship with Him only really became more prominent over the last 8 weeks, prior to this it was the odd shift together where they worked & the odd facebook message. 
I feel he has over stepped the boundaries as she told him the problems in our marriage instead of opening up to me.


----------



## badmemory

worried79 said:


> I'd like to think that with him out of the equation we can start to communicate & talk again then maybe become friends again like you say.
> I know it's going to be a long process and she has to get over her feelings for him before we can rebuild our relationship.
> I'm expecting things will get worse before they get better.


My philosophy is; that despite the WW's difficulty in getting over the OM, they better damn sure "fake it till they make it"; if they want a chance to R.

The BS getting past the cheating is hard enough with a completely remorseful spouse. They shouldn't be expected to bare the added insult to injury, of a pining WS.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> Suspecting2014 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am thinking that her thoughts have been impaired by the fact she has become so close to him, she said she can't just am change the way she feels about me at the flick of a switch.
> I see what she is saying and understand but my way of thinking is that as long as he is part of our relationship she won't even be able to think about let alone how she feels about me.
> 
> People have mentioned about a letter of no contact, how should this be worded?
> Would it need signing by a solicitor or legal type person??
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, the main issue here is what came fist, the Affair or the lack of feeling.
> 
> When WW are in the fog, they convence her self to believe they dont care about heir spouses any more, once out the fog they see thing as they really are.
> 
> Very importanto to know this!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lack of feeling came 1st as I feel we drifted apart over the par few months due to busy work/relationship/family balance.
> Her friendship with Him only really became more prominent over the last 8 weeks, prior to this it was the odd shift together where they worked & the odd facebook message.
> I feel he has over stepped the boundaries as she told him the problems in our marriage instead of opening up to me.
Click to expand...

Well, then you MUST improve your self ASAP
Read MMSLP and NMMNG

Find them on internet and start NOW.

Set some grownd rules, while MC no affairs, no discose marital issues with other gender persons, avoid toxic friends ( ones that know and support Affair), etc

Act ASAP

Good luck


----------



## Suspecting2014

Notice that for MC, R ti work honesty is a must.

Point our to her that this os the moment to say if any other contact (sex) happened. At this moment you feel weak and un shock but rage is ti come... If after trying for R you find new discovers will be like stteping back to DD but with a more shatered trust. Let her know this .


----------



## worried79

Locke.Stratos said:


> I don't actually agree with how you are handling your wife's affair, kinda seems like you're giving her somewhat of a free pass, at most a light tap on the wrist but given the circumstances I guess you are doing the best that you can.
> 
> You seem to keep busy with work and other responsibilities during the week so I wanted to ask if you have any down time? Do you take time out of your days to relax or engage in activities that you enjoy, either alone or with others?
> 
> You mentioned in your intital post that you may suffer from depression. I figure with the affair, losing your dog and the anniversary of your dad's passing things can't be easy for you at the moment, emotionally and mentally, and at least from my experience sports, swimming, running and excercising helped me a great deal.


Hi,
I'm not making it easy for her in anyway & certainly not just forgiving & forgetting. 
On my own 180 at the moment, no unnecessary texts or calls, basic conversation at home, taken the boys out on a weekend to cool things & making a point of what she is missing. 

As for me time, I go bowling on a Monday night, take a regular walk at least once a week to listen to some good music & clear my head.


----------



## G.J.

Intheknow said:


> The OM is in his 30's and has been persuing your wife, not as a friend but for sex. He's a guy! He knows shes married and unhappy! Of course he's going to use this to get in her pants.
> 
> She is an adult woman, who says she doesnt love you, and has been in this fantasy romance with someone who she has given affection and expressed interest in. Married women dont go to another mans house to be alone with him and get some kissing and cuddling.
> 
> Dont be stupid. Dont give up your info sources and keep recording in car and house. Record your conversations about affair without her knowing. (If story changes, you have a record not a faulty memory.
> 
> Get the full story. Then keep monitoring. Its been 1 year since dday and I still monitor her while we are in MC. Iphone app "Find my phone" installed and tracks her whn i log into icloud on computer. Keyloggers, and synched web browsers shows me history of sites, searches etc.


:iagree:

Also GPS Tracker to car


----------



## carmen ohio

worried79 said:


> . . . People have mentioned about a letter of no contact, how should this be worded?
> Would it need signing by a solicitor or legal type person??


worried79,

Your WW should write the letter. It should be short and to the point:

- I've come to realize that what we did was terribly wrong because it hurt my husband and damaged my marriage.
- I want nothing further to do with you.
- Please do not ever try to contact me again.

It should contain no fond farewells or _'best wishes'_ type of language.

She writes it. You review it. If it is acceptable, you mail it.

Your WW should also promise to tell you if the OM makes any attempt to contact her if she ever sees him again.

This is the NC process.


----------



## worried79

We have our 1st session at MC tonight. 
I expect it'll just be a few basic questions about us, what's gone & what we both want from the sessions.


----------



## Suspecting2014

At the first MC you will describe your relation and that's it, maybe a few advice but nothing else. Nevertheless this will be an opportunity to tell each other what is the gold, also to make her clear that keeping contact or hiding any attempt of contact (his or hers) will be a false R, so better no try. Besides give her the opportunity to confess if the affair was more in length or physical contact. You can also ask about previous affairs.



In a few words, you should give her the opportunity to tell you everything, about what happened, how is she feeling and what does she want, and the same opportunity for you.



IMO you should be very clear that even you dont want D and that you are willing to fight for her, there are dealbreakers and that you can be withouther if the time comes, that will hurt but yiou gonna be fine (even if this last is BS nothing awakes more a WS that realize that nothing is for granted).



Good luck


----------



## worried79

Locke.Stratos said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> I'm not making it easy for her in anyway & certainly not just forgiving & forgetting.
> On my own 180 at the moment, no unnecessary texts or calls, basic conversation at home, taken the boys out on a weekend to cool things & making a point of what she is missing.
> 
> As for me time, I go bowling on a Monday night, take a regular walk at least once a week to listen to some good music & clear my head.
> 
> 
> 
> That's good, keep it up but don't do activities with your wife in mind. Spending time with your sons should be done for your benefit and theirs, not with the intention of showing your wife what she is missing. That won't work because you were the one to end the affair not her, she would have gladly carried on with the relationship. At this point even if she isn't in contact with her lover, the emotional connection is still there. She is missing him and might resent you for "taking him away from her" so your efforts in that regard will go unnoticed, she won't care or register them.
> 
> I'm more concerned with your well-being, which is why I recommend some form of strenuous exercise several times a week. It's fun, engaging and will help occupy for mind and work of any excess emotional energy or stress. You will become more fit which will help build your confidence, and confidence is sexy and attractive.
Click to expand...

Thanks. 
Feeling a lot better in myself but I am starting to look into joining a gym to keep up my weight loss and as a new hobby.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

Since this entire ordeal began have you shared this with anyone, it helps to be able to confide in and talk to someone about this?


----------



## worried79

Locke.Stratos said:


> Since this entire ordeal began have you shared this with anyone, it helps to be able to confide in and talk to someone about this?


I've talked openly with a couple of work colleagues and to some of my close friends. 
That has really helped a lot.


----------



## LongWalk

Your wife has admitted that she no longer loves you. You don't have a sex life anymore. Has she tried to hug you since you exposed the affair?


----------



## worried79

LongWalk said:


> Your wife has admitted that she no longer loves you. You don't have a sex life anymore. Has she tried to hug you since you exposed the affair?


After I confronted her on Saturday night she has hugged me yes & also said sorry. 
She did seem to show remorse & I genuinely did feel this in her hug. 
She has since put her wedding rings back on, I told her she didn't have to and she could put them back on if & when she felt comfortable but she said that she wanted to put them back on.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> LongWalk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your wife has admitted that she no longer loves you. You don't have a sex life anymore. Has she tried to hug you since you exposed the affair?
> 
> 
> 
> After I confronted her on Saturday night she has hugged me yes & also said sorry.
> She did seem to show remorse & I genuinely did feel this in her hug.
> She has since put her wedding rings back on, I told her she didn't have to and she could put them back on if & when she felt comfortable but she said that she wanted to put them back on.
Click to expand...

This os why I believe that OM came before the I don't love you anymore.

How could she changed her mind in a flik?

IMO there is more than she has confessed

This is not R, this will make R a possibility


----------



## worried79

So we had our 1st session at MC last night. 
Basically form filling and a chat about what has happened in the relationship and what we wanted from the sessions. 
My reasons for the sessions are to rebuild the relationship, up until the other day the Wife was adamant she wanted to split & no chance on R. 
Last night when asked she said she was undecided on what she wanted to happen. 
The counsellor gave a quick overview of her thoughts of what's happened to the marriage from what we spoke about and her opinion was pretty much the same as mine. 
We are very busy working & caring for the children we don't have time for ourselves & when we do have that time we are tired & stressed. Also both of us showed we needed to see a GP about depression & this is also a major factor. 
We will be going ahead with more sessions and see how things go.


----------



## LongWalk

Anti depressants can kill libido, according to some.


----------



## Suspecting2014

IMO, as far as she is has not decided to give it a try you should do 180 and get some legal advice.



I dont think you should show your self as a weak man to her anymore, no chasing, no begging, etc. It typically take away even more a doubtful wife.



At this moment, and until she decided to R, if she decides, IMO you should set some ground rules to avoid further complications, as I already posted, to protect your children environment. They dont need depressed parents, but far fewer parents that are depressed, angry, fighting and yelling, dont you think?



You should not force her into R, if the both of you are not willing dont even bother to try, it will be a lost of time, money and effort...and ofcourse a big emotional toll to pay.



Make her clear the whole consequences about her choices, like:



If not R, D is to come as you need to move on, split assets, maybe sell home and find another place, smaller one as will be support on 1 income. Not seeing kids everyday, etc.



If R, alot of effort on both sides but there is still an affaird that means she will have to put extra effort on her side about this matter.



Ofcourse there are good things in both options that should be included.



Even if she decided to try or not, you should improve your self, as I pointed out before, you really need to read MMSLP (Married Man Sex Life Primer) and NMMNG (No More Mister Nice Guy) ASAP.



Sorry for this long post, I hope I made my self cleared with out offending you, or any body, as this is just my opinion.



PS. Is worth to say that total, even brutal, honesty is a must from now on.


----------



## worried79

Suspecting2014 said:


> IMO, as far as she is has not decided to give it a try you should do 180 and get some legal advice.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think you should show your self as a weak man to her anymore, no chasing, no begging, etc. It typically take away even more a doubtful wife.
> 
> 
> 
> At this moment, and until she decided to R, if she decides, IMO you should set some ground rules to avoid further complications, as I already posted, to protect your children environment. They dont need depressed parents, but far fewer parents that are depressed, angry, fighting and yelling, dont you think?
> 
> 
> 
> You should not force her into R, if the both of you are not willing dont even bother to try, it will be a lost of time, money and effort...and ofcourse a big emotional toll to pay.
> 
> 
> 
> Make her clear the whole consequences about her choices, like:
> 
> 
> 
> If not R, D is to come as you need to move on, split assets, maybe sell home and find another place, smaller one as will be support on 1 income. Not seeing kids everyday, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> If R, alot of effort on both sides but there is still an affaird that means she will have to put extra effort on her side about this matter
> 
> 
> 
> Even if she decided to try or not, you should improve your self, as I pointed out before, you really need to read MMSLP (Married Man Sex Life Primer) and NMMNG (No More Mister Nice Guy) ASAP
> 
> 
> PS. Is worth to say that total, even brutal, honesty is a must from now on.


Hi, thanks for the reply. 

I haven't pleaded and begged for R, I just put my points across about the long term future etc like you mentioned about selling the house, not seeing the kids everyday. 

I'm on with signing up to the gym & motivating myself that way as well as keeping to the 180. 

Also looking into what books I should be reading, is there any books that she should be considering reading in her current position??


----------



## Chaparral

NOT JUST FRIENDS by Shirley Glass linked to below. Also, HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS for you both.

You need to keep up the detective work. She changed awfully quick, unusually so. Don't trust her sincerity yet.

Good luck.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79, just PM you

let me know if you got it


----------



## worried79

Suspecting2014 said:


> worried79, just PM you
> 
> let me know if you got it


Got your 1st PM but the other we're just blank.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> Got your 1st PM but the other we're just blank.


Just sent it again

I hope this time you get it


----------



## Suspecting2014

As I wasnt able to send this by a PM, this is it:

"This is a link to POJA

The Policy of Joint Agreement

No contact with OM is a corner stone at this moment as I, and others, believe that he played a key rolled on this mess.

This is why I was so adamant about what came first, OM or "Don’t love you any more". IMO even if she was feeling unhappy the catalyzer was OM, when they become closer was when she took off her ring, and gave you the "I don’t love you anymore", right? the dates are just to close.

I don’t mean by this that she was happy until OM appear, I think she wasn’t happy and that’s why OM could reach her in a romantic way.

Please let me elaborate.

When a wife feels that something is missing in her marriage, (bc a bad marriage, MLC, etc), subconsciously is looking for a shoulder to cry and sometimes there is a friend/co-worker/facebook/male that listens and give her the attention that she was missing and it turns into a romantic bond. At this point she has convinced herself that things were worse that they really are to try to justify the affair in her mind. If you add to this the rush of hiding and dopamine the out come is the "Fog". I bet you already heard about.

While she is still in the fog, her marriage looks, to her, like something long death, unworth to fight for, much worse than it is.

From what I read, and my own experience, to slap her out the fog 2 things are needed:

Full exposure, so she cant spread her truth, the "changed" version, to others looking for approval and support; and

Consequences, like D. As you will read on TAM, the most successful fog slapping out where when the BS were convince to finally give up and file for D, showing that they will be just fine. WS tend to don’t even think about their marriage while on the affair, this is because they took it for granted.

A third factor plays a key role sometimes but not always. Show her that OM was just trying to get into her pants and don’t care about her (consider that most wifes get into an affair for the attention, not the sex). This is achieve by exposing on his side. I believe this doesn't apply to your situation but at least if you talk and scare away the OM you can get 3 things:

1.- You man up as you fight for her and your rights (very important for her eyes).

2.- Get the truth to contrast with your wife version (very important if R take place as further discoveries can damage even more your truth).

3.- Show her that OM is not willing to fight for her even a bit (one more step out the fog)

IMO your situation seems to be a brand new affair from an unfulfilling marriage, not as she thinks in this moment but at least not too good.

In conclusion, I think she is still in the "fog", not deep but enough to taint your marriage. IMO if you set a frame to R and she wakes enough to try you will have a good chance to succeed!

Be careful as she is still on the fog she is not the person you used to know, and is able to do much more than you can imagine. 

e.g. 1 Maybe she is remorse for been caught but not for the affair.
e.g. 2 Putting her ring on while trying to decide to R or not, but took it off for the affair. IMO the main factor here was not the lack of love, was the OM. If the lack of love were the engine behind, why put the ring on at this point???"


----------



## badmemory

worried79 said:


> Last night when asked she said she was undecided on what she wanted to happen.


Worried,

After what she did, she doesn't get the opportunity to decide on R. That's for you to determine. And if she says she is "undecided", then she's made your decision for you.

I know you won't follow this advice; but you should just go forward with the 180, file for D and stop MC immediately. If/when she commits to wanting to save her marriage, then MC might be a starting point. But not before.


----------



## G.J.

badmemory said:


> Worried,
> 
> After what she did, she doesn't get the opportunity to decide on R. That's for you to determine. And if she says she is "undecided", then she's made your decision for you.
> 
> I know you won't follow this advice; but you should just go forward with the 180, file for D and stop MC immediately. If/when she commits to wanting to save her marriage, then MC might be a starting point. But not before.


The D/S papers will sober her up *immediately* and you will soon know if she wants to save the marriage *with you*....don't forget it can be stopped at anytime and for a shock tactic its one of the best
However in this case I will defer to people who have more knowledge


----------



## worried79

G.J. said:


> badmemory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worried,
> 
> After what she did, she doesn't get the opportunity to decide on R. That's for you to determine. And if she says she is "undecided", then she's made your decision for you.
> 
> I know you won't follow this advice; but you should just go forward with the 180, file for D and stop MC immediately. If/when she commits to wanting to save her marriage, then MC might be a starting point. But not before.
> 
> 
> 
> The D/S papers will sober her up *immediately* and you will soon know if she wants to save the marriage *with you*....don't forget it can be stopped at anytime and for a shock tactic its one of the best
> However in this case I will defer to people who have more knowledge
Click to expand...

I do keep thinking this but then get thinking about the fact originally she said that she doesn't want to be with me & wants to split. 
Will doing this make her say well yeah let's get D????
Need to have a long think, it's been a bad few weeks as expected and my brain is still pretty mashed.


----------



## badmemory

worried79 said:


> Will doing this make her say well yeah let's get D????


It might very well. And if it does, it's for the best.


----------



## Suspecting2014

not written by me but written by a wise person-

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


----------



## bryanp

One more time:

If you do not respect yourself then who will?
No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.


----------



## Suspecting2014

You can try R, but don't do it on fear. Fear to be alone, fear to lose her, irracional fear, etc.

Remenber that you has expetience the same that your wife, it means that you were not living in a happy marriage. If ever you chose to D and move on, you will find someone new and you will have a good relation, a relation that you deserve.

If your wife wanna go and dont wanna figth for your mariage, just let her go and be prepare for the life you deserve and are willing to figth for.


----------



## Intheknow

Reconciliation is a second chance at a functional and loving marriage, and it takes both effort and time to be successful. You both have to work on your individual issues as well as your issues as a couple.
It's not just a series of counselling sessions to complain, blame or vent your feelings. It is a safe zone in which honesty and transparency are imperative, where listening and understanding should result.
It might take awhile and be a painful process.

And it doesn't ensure the marriage will continue. 

As for your attitude about reconciling It's your choice to go, not hers. You decide whether she gets a second chance, not her. A second chance after unfaithful behaviour like keeping secrets, confiding in someone, ridiculing you or flirting on the phone is just as wrong as a full on EA or PA. (in my opinion)

A second chance is a gift, not a compromise. You can take it back anytime...it's your choice to make.

Determine your dealbreaker(s) and what you want out of a partner. Be mindful and trust your gut.


----------



## carmen ohio

worried79 said:


> I do keep thinking this but then get thinking about the fact originally she said that she doesn't want to be with me & wants to split.
> Will doing this make her say well yeah let's get D????
> Need to have a long think, it's been a bad few weeks as expected and my brain is still pretty mashed.


You're a bit of a slow learner, worried79.

It wasn't until you confronted your WW about her affair that she began to indicate that just maybe she doesn't want out of her marriage.

You should have learned something from this, namely, that you need to keep the pressure on if you want her to get truly on board with R. Let her know that it is not just a possibility but a certainty that you will end the marriage if she doesn't start showing genuine remorse and soon.

The longer you let her equivocate on R, the weaker you look and the less likely she is to do it.


----------



## NoChoice

Worried,
She is still in the drivers seat. She is undecided as to whether or not she wants to continue the marriage? It's only a choice for her because you gave her that option. She still does not see the seriousness of her actions on you and the family.

As has been stated, if you file for D one of two things will happen. She will "come to her senses" and realize that she is losing the family that she has known. This can happen at any stage of the D process. Conversely, she may go through with the D and you guys may split. If this happens, it was going to happen anyway somewhere down the road maybe after affair number two, or three, or four....Do you really want to live this scenario again?

She is either in it to fight for and save the marriage or she is not. If she is not, she WILL ultimately do this again. However, next time she will be more adept at keeping it secret since she has learned from this experience. Do you really want that?


----------



## worried79

Just a quick update,
I read the Five Languages of Love on Saturday, great read with some good info and pointers I've taken onboard. 
Told the WW I'd read it & thought she might like to take a look at it, she said she wouldn't read it. 
Oh well I've bought another 3 books which will be coming this week which I'll be reading, it's up to her if she chooses to have a look. 

Also I've been to the GP & got prescribed a course of Fluxoetine anti depressants.


----------



## badmemory

worried79 said:


> I read the Five Languages of Love on Saturday, great read with some good info and pointers I've taken onboard. Told the WW I'd read it & thought she might like to take a look at it, *she said she wouldn't read it.*


Sigh.

Another helpful action from her. Helpful because that's one more thing she's demonstrating that should make your decision clearer.


----------



## worried79

badmemory said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the Five Languages of Love on Saturday, great read with some good info and pointers I've taken onboard. Told the WW I'd read it & thought she might like to take a look at it, *she said she wouldn't read it.*
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Another helpful action from her. Helpful because that's one more thing she's demonstrating that should make your decision clearer.
Click to expand...

I know, I keep thinking the same thing but I'm still struggling to take control of the situation. 
I'm probably wrong in thinking but I reckon her actions at the moment are another form of punishment to me for making her end the affair, I was kinda expecting this to be honest & still hope that once her head is a bit clearer & we start the MC properly she will come out of the FOG a little more.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Worried
Your wife with her strong-selfish-free-will decided to betray you and your children. You are compromising and trying everything to get her out of the fog and to commit 100% to your marriage. So far your efforts have failed.

The only hope that you have to get her out of her fog and change her strong free will is for you to stop compromising, wavering back and forth, and not tolerate her uncommitted will to help repair the severe damage that she is causing the whole family. Stop trying to change a strong will cheater with soft approaches. You need to take actions immediately to bring this betrayal and her destructive defiant self-will to a conclusion. *Either she is going to help you stop the destruction she is doing to the family or you should give her all the hard consequences that she has brought on herself. Do not enable her by allowing her to not suffer the consequences that she has earned.*

Her reasoning will not be enough to get her to give 100% committed until her evil is confronted with severe consequences. Even then she may decide to please herself rather than help you and her children.* If you do not get into full war combated against the evil of her free choice deviate free will, then more damage will be done.*


Another very important action you can take is for you to get yourself much stronger. Do not expect your wife to help you in this. *Even though you have been weakened you have to force yourself to get a lot tougher and stronger. Women do not respect weak men.*

I know you are scared and weak but evil will trample scared and weak; you have to fight evil with strength and consequences. Your wife has proven to you that she loves what pleasures her more than what is in the best interest of you and your children. She needs a strong man that will take strong actions to jolt her out of her deep selfishness. Even then she may not change so you need to have a current plan and a long range plan to get yourself into a condition to be able to live with her or without her without it affecting your life to any great degree. *In other words you have to get in the position that you are willing to lose her if she will not change. If you’d not so that then you will be susceptible to being a little or big door mat.*



*
You cannot make someone love or respect you but you can make yourself love yourself and respect yourself!*


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> badmemory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the Five Languages of Love on Saturday, great read with some good info and pointers I've taken onboard. Told the WW I'd read it & thought she might like to take a look at it, *she said she wouldn't read it.*
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Another helpful action from her. Helpful because that's one more thing she's demonstrating that should make your decision clearer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know, I keep thinking the same thing but I'm still struggling to take control of the situation.
> I'm probably wrong in thinking but I reckon her actions at the moment are another form of punishment to me for making her end the affair, I was kinda expecting this to be honest & still hope that once her head is a bit clearer & we start the MC properly she will come out of the FOG a little more.
Click to expand...

No one will ever change unless is forced to...

I believe that no one has ever step out the fog just by assisting to MC. When both parts try to fix the marriage there is change but MC is not a magic formula!

Just one question, what makes you think that doing the same and acting the same way will make a different outcome??

You have 2 different problems here, her affair and not loving you.

IMO there is one solution for both of them:

Man up yourself, act like a man, grow a pair and standâs for your rights.

As you can read in TAM and other webs, the only chance you have is a totally change in your behavior to show her that you are not giving her a free pass over the affair (sorry but you are), that you are not willing to have a lousy marriage and the most important thing, that you are not for granted by her side and in order to accomplish the other points you are willing to file for D and move on!!!

This last point will show her that, as painful as it would be, you could live without her, and that you will live well! That you deserve a good person by your side and that you are willing to find her.

I believe the first thing you should do is:

Tell her how you feel: Very disappointed for the affair; what are you expecting: Trying to fix thing in MC or what it takes, and what are you going to do about it: If she is not remorse about the affair and is not willing to fix the marriage, that you are filing for D (notice that filing for D is not the same as divorce her, D is a process that you can stop anytime, of course the power of filing for D is letting her know that you are not having second thoughts about it)

After that talk go 180, serve her, and start detaching by improving yourself (gym, friends, etc).

One more thing, I donât know if you already did it, but is a must to slap the WS out the fog (without doing it is almost impossible), you really need to expose!

Expose to your family and friends, and of course the most important exposure must be to OMW, this way you ensure that no further contact will take place at the same time OM will show his self as he is (in the affair just for sex, not willing to his wife, lying to get into her pants, etc) so she will stop idealizing him. It is worth to say that OMW has the right to know who she is married to.

By the way, the most important must if ever try to R is the whole truth, not glory details if you can avoid them, but she must be willing to tell you everything. I believe at this point you know that cheaters lie and there was more than a few kisses.

Confront OM again, this time tell him that your wife already told you everything and you want to hear it from him, once you have what you want tell him that he has 1 hour to confess to his wife and you will call her with solid rock evidence.

You should do this when your wife is out of reach, (no access to her phone, or computer, etc.) e.g call him while watching your wife doing other things in house and after hanging stick to her side for one hour, the idea is not let him contact her to confirm anything.

You should do this after the initial talk (as if they are still in contact she will tell him about).

One hour later call his wife when your wife is by your side, if possible. By this you will achieve one of 2 things: She will see how the coward denies everything knowing that she is in trouble by his wife being warned about all your "lies"; or that he accepts everything but will work on his marriage as your wife isnt/wasn't a priority, just a distraction.

You don't have to follow my advice or my plan, but act now, the worst thing you can do is keep doing the same!!!

Do something different, You got nothing to lose at this point and everything to wonâ¦act now.


----------



## BobSimmons

worried79 said:


> I know, I keep thinking the same thing but I'm still struggling to take control of the situation.
> I'm probably wrong in thinking but I reckon her actions at the moment are another form of punishment to me for making her end the affair, I was kinda expecting this to be honest & still hope that *once her head is a bit clearer & we start the MC properly she will come out of the FOG a little more*.


You assume alot. What makes you think her head isn't clear now?

So if she doesn't come out the fog in a year does that mean you'll have still not gone for MC?

Seems to me you're not listening to what your wife is saying and more importantly doing. You can't guilt trip her into reading a book she doesn't want to read or feel sorry for an affair she didn't want to end herself.

If you can't even get her to read a book, how do you expect her to sit in MC, pour her heart out honestly then come home and do the work necessary to make this marriage work?

You're whistling into the wind here pal and you seem to have got good advice which you have deemed unworthy of following.

To each his own. So good luck, but no one can help you if you don't help yourself.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

Worried79, you're grasping onto this inane idea or hope that if can 'just make it' to marriage councelling or if you read or get her to read just the right book that you can somehow repair this. 

Basically like some betrayed husbands or wives you're desperately trying to normalize because your world just fell apart.

This fog that you think has a hold of her, there is no such thing. She is not under any mind control or enchantment. The 'fog' is basically the name attributed to a certain set of behaviours. Your wife is a grown woman, at least respect her enough to recognize that that she alone is capable and responsible for her own thoughts and actions.

You mentioned earlier that your wife has changed so much in the last few weeks. That is because you've always known your wife as the person who loves you and just as importantly respects you, and that is who she has been to you. She seems different now because she is not that person anymore.

We all behave towards others depending on how we feel about them. The wife you now know is the one who is in love with another man, who thinks about and puts him first and not you. All her feelings of affection, dreams of the future, happy memories are of her new paramore.

Your marriage will fail because your wife is actively unremorseful and you are being weak and passive. You have done nothing that puts you in a good and deserable light as a strong, attractive and confident man. You can not "nice" someone out of an affair. It takes very strong actions, not words, to effect a change in someone, you haven't hit the hardline with her so it's only a matter of time.

To put things in perspective, you have as much hope of snapping her out of 'the fog' as we do of getting you to file for divorce.


----------



## worried79

I was never this weak, I'm now a weak man that's scared to admit the fact I'm losing my wife & family. 
I've never been so low and in this frame of mind. 
In order for for me to get a grip if this ordeal I'm hoping the antidepressants will at least make me a little stronger. 
All the advice here is great and I totally appreciate every input. 
I'm weak and can't follow the suggestions to the T but something has to give soon & it will more than likely be me.


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> I was never this weak, I'm now a weak man that's scared to admit the fact I'm losing my wife & family.
> I've never been so low and in this frame of mind.
> In order for for me to get a grip if this ordeal I'm hoping the antidepressants will at least make me a little stronger.
> All the advice here is great and I totally appreciate every input.
> I'm weak and can't follow the suggestions to the T but something has to give soon & it will more than likely be me.


Don’t worry, at this moment you are feeling the weight of the world and is normal. Bes ure and convince yourself that this is not your fault, because it is not.

To fix a marriage need 2, just 1 can’t fix or keep that marriage going.

First you need to start doing things to get you better, one thing at the time, but you need to start moving. Baby steps, like avoiding contact unless is necessary and try 180 will be a start, not enough but a start. At this point you need to start detaching to get stronger.

Design a plan and stick to it, act and stop thinking.
Keep venting and sharing at TAM.

At this moment you may think is the end of the world because you can see beyond, it normal and expected, but you need to start changing so you can see a whole new reality.

You need to motivate yourself, thinking of the father your kids deserve and the example you should give to them.

You may think that acting like nothing happened and faking in front the kids to keep your family together will work but it won’t. Kids can see and sense better than you think.

If you don’t act they will learn that is ok to be treated like garbage, learn to let people being bad at them and not react, that is OK to be in a sad marriage, on the other side, that is ok to cheat and no consequences will take place, that every time they are not happy are entitled to act without caring for others, etc.

Think of your children and the example you are giving and how it will affect them.

Don’t think start acting now, TODAY IS THE DAY AND NOW IS THE MOMENT.


----------



## G.J.

Did you ever install a VAR in her car?

Request FB archive

Contact OM and ask him if they had PA (more than kiss&cuddle)


----------



## Locke.Stratos

worried79 said:


> I was never this weak, I'm now a weak man that's scared to admit the fact I'm losing my wife & family.
> I've never been so low and in this frame of mind.
> In order for for me to get a grip if this ordeal I'm hoping the antidepressants will at least make me a little stronger.
> All the advice here is great and I totally appreciate every input.
> I'm weak and can't follow the suggestions to the T but something has to give soon & it will more than likely be me.



You can not make excuses for your weakness and inability to act, you are in control of your actions. Unless you are a cult leader, the only person you are in control of is yourself.

Worried79 do not become Wallowing79, that sounded more clever in my head.


Okay I'll ask you this, do you love your wife, do you want to spend the rest of your life with her, will you do whatever it takes to fight for her and save your family?

If you have answered 'yes' to all of the above then your best and maybe only hope is to fight for her, and you do that by letting go of her and removing yourself from her life (limited only to writing and texts about the children obviously).

You are on a forum where there are many who may not necessarily know better than you, but know more.

If you love your wife and family deeply and that love eclipses all else than you have to be willing to sacrifice time and your relationship in order to ultimately and truly get her back and not have this painful purgatory state your relationship is in.

You are a certainty to her. If you talk with wives and husbands who have affairs you will learn that many of them do not even consider their spouse leaving them a remote posibility.

At the moment you are "competing" with what your wife perceives to be new and exciting. You cannot compete with 'new' unless you become different and a mystery. With your marriage and relationship an uncertainty to her it'll create a sense of excitement, which will add to your attraction.

Afford your wife the opportunity to miss you, experience life without you and see you in a new and unknown light.

You will be surprised to know that there are many ex husbands and ex wives who are begging and actively pursuing their divorced betrayed spouse in order to get them back. 


Divorce is not the end, if your ultimate goal is to have her back you have to keep this in mind and follow through. You are eroding any chance you have at her falling in love with you being the way you are now.

Seek an attorney and file today, go through with it if you have to. It will be extremely painful and difficult, but keep your end objective in mind.

Through it all exercise, take care of yourself and keep an active social life. Spend time with your children and family, go out with friends, make new friends, meet and talk to women, but do not get involved with anyone while still married. Having new femle friends will elicit jealousy and also add to your attraction, be the kind of man other women will be interested in and this will increase your wife's interest in you and be casual, indifferent towards her and show absolutley no interest in her, no asking questions or listening to her talk about her life.

In time, if you do this you will have her wanting you back.


----------



## worried79

Well I've taken a few days out. 
I'm back and stronger, got the divorce papers ready to take to my solicitor next week. 
Just in the process of drawing up a proposal about the boys and house etc...
All will be presented after Xmas & she will be having a case packed to go be with him.
Leaving until after Xmas as I can't spoil this for the boys.


----------



## GusPolinski

worried79 said:


> Well I've taken a few days out.
> I'm back and stronger, got the divorce papers ready to take to my solicitor next week.
> Just in the process of drawing up a proposal about the boys and house etc...
> All will be presented after Xmas & she will be having a case packed to go be with him.
> Leaving until after Xmas as I can't spoil this for the boys.


So did she wind up deciding that she doesn't want to reconcile, or did you make that decision for her?


----------



## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> Well I've taken a few days out.
> I'm back and stronger, got the divorce papers ready to take to my solicitor next week.
> Just in the process of drawing up a proposal about the boys and house etc...
> All will be presented after Xmas & she will be having a case packed to go be with him.
> Leaving until after Xmas as I can't spoil this for the boys.


Well she made up her mind!!! I am sorry for you.

Anyhow I belive she cjecked out long time ago.

Get veryhitng ready ASAP, while she is in the Fog will be much more asyer to nget her to agree with asets split, custody, etc.

Keep venting

If you feel down dont ever contact her, 

Keep 180 100%

Good luck


----------



## worried79

Suspecting2014 said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've taken a few days out.
> I'm back and stronger, got the divorce papers ready to take to my solicitor next week.
> Just in the process of drawing up a proposal about the boys and house etc...
> All will be presented after Xmas & she will be having a case packed to go be with him.
> Leaving until after Xmas as I can't spoil this for the boys.
> 
> 
> 
> Well she made up her mind!!! I am sorry for you.
> 
> Anyhow I belive she cjecked out long time ago.
> 
> Get veryhitng ready ASAP, while she is in the Fog will be much more asyer to nget her to agree with asets split, custody, etc.
> 
> Keep venting
> 
> If you feel down dont ever contact her,
> 
> Keep 180 100%
> 
> Good luck
Click to expand...

Yeah your right as was everyone else but I just needed my own time to let it sink in & register. 
I guess most people originally think they can can keep hold and make it work. 
Currently going well in my 180 & staying strong. . 
It's going to to be heart breaking telling the kids about the future but they will be strong I hope and can adjust in time.


----------



## worried79

GusPolinski said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've taken a few days out.
> I'm back and stronger, got the divorce papers ready to take to my solicitor next week.
> Just in the process of drawing up a proposal about the boys and house etc...
> All will be presented after Xmas & she will be having a case packed to go be with him.
> Leaving until after Xmas as I can't spoil this for the boys.
> 
> 
> 
> So did she wind up deciding that she doesn't want to reconcile, or did you make that decision for her?
Click to expand...

She has not shown any other signs of wanting to R and I am suspecting she is hoping to use the MC as a way to stall me and let her try make a future on her own. 
I'm not going to stand for that and decided she has to go and sample life living at His mums place without the kids she loves and adores.
Also she works from our home on an evening so that will be stopping too & her pupils will also be going to her new place.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

worried:

you sound better in this post than in any other in this thread. IMO anger and outrage are the healthiest possible emotions for you to feel in the aftermath of her cheating. if she has devastated you, now you should want to devastate her. have compassion for your children but none for her, not at this point anyway.


----------



## worried79

nuclearnightmare said:


> worried:
> 
> you sound better in this post than in any other in this thread. IMO anger and outrage are the healthiest possible emotions for you to feel in the aftermath of her cheating. if she has devastated you, now you should want to devastate her. have compassion for your children but none for her, not at this point anyway.


I feel so much better, might be the medication that's started to work.
I now feel strong enough to tackle this head on and like a man. 
Should be seeing the solicitor early next week and then I can get the ball rolling.


----------



## carmen ohio

worried79 said:


> Well I've taken a few days out.
> I'm back and stronger, *got the divorce papers ready to take to my solicitor next week. *
> Just in the process of drawing up a proposal about the boys and house etc...
> All will be presented after Xmas & she will be having a case packed to go be with him.
> Leaving until after Xmas as I can't spoil this for the boys.





worried79 said:


> Yeah your right as was everyone else but I just needed my own time to let it sink in & register.
> I guess most people originally think they can can keep hold and make it work.
> *Currently going well in my 180 & staying strong.* .
> It's going to to be heart breaking telling the kids about the future but they will be strong I hope and can adjust in time.





worried79 said:


> She has not shown any other signs of wanting to R and I am suspecting she is hoping to use the MC as a way to stall me and let her try make a future on her own.
> *I'm not going to stand for that and decided she has to go* and sample life living at His mums place without the kids she loves and adores.
> Also she works from our home on an evening so that will be stopping too & her pupils will also be going to her new place.





worried79 said:


> I feel so much better, might be the medication that's started to work.
> *I now feel strong enough to tackle this head on and like a man. *
> Should be seeing the solicitor early next week and then I can get the ball rolling.


Congratulations, worried79! You are finally hitting on all cylinders -- words, attitude, emotions and action.


----------



## farsidejunky

Checking in on you, W79.


----------



## worried79

farsidejunky said:


> Checking in on you, W79.


Morning. 
Been a little quiet recently. 
Handed the D papers last Friday and went as I thought, she had no future plans and the way she was upset I genuinley think she was sorry for the affair. 

She still wants to try R & start the MC, her friends have been interfering and sending info she didn't want. 

We have both agreed to take things slow and see where the MC gets us

People might think I'm mad but she is the love of my life & I want this to work out so much. .


----------



## G.J.

worried79 said:


> Morning.
> Been a little quiet recently.
> Handed the D papers last Friday and went as I thought, she had no future plans and the way she was upset I genuinley think she was sorry for the affair.
> 
> She still wants to try R & start the MC, her friends have been interfering and sending info she didn't want.
> 
> We have both agreed to take things slow and see where the MC gets us
> 
> People might think I'm mad but she is the love of my life & I want this to work out so much. .


Hi worried sorry its still sucky

You know she's possibly still seeing the OM

Shes sorry as she knows she *possibly* wont have a plan B to fall back on ?

What have you done ref *VAR* car and *GPS?* and hopefully you have all passwords to all devices and you check for burner phone

Did you continue to try to recover any texts

Have you exposed to all or is she still under the radar with what you have found out....don't forget she hasn't even been honest with what they got up to....kissing and cuddling .....give me a break

Phone OM and ask him how many times they had sex as your wife says only a couple and see what he says or tell her you phoned him and he told you they had sex* (what do others think of doing this as I would be inclined to bluff it)*

10-12 days ago she was going to leave after xmas and move in with him !!!

His mum possibly stopped that, so he's told her to play for time

I hope i'm wrong but with how she's not really into R it all comes across as stalling for time to me


----------



## carmen ohio

worried79 said:


> Morning.
> Been a little quiet recently.
> Handed the D papers last Friday and went as I thought, she had no future plans and the way she was upset I genuinley think she was sorry for the affair.
> 
> She still wants to try R & start the MC, her friends have been interfering and sending info she didn't want.
> 
> We have both agreed to take things slow and see where the MC gets us
> 
> People might think I'm mad but she is the love of my life & I want this to work out so much. .


So who is in charge of the R, you, her or nobody?


----------



## vellocet

worried79 said:


> Morning.
> Been a little quiet recently.
> Handed the D papers last Friday and went as I thought, she had no future plans and the way she was upset I genuinley think she was sorry for the affair.


Sure, now that she was finally faced with losing her family home life.




> She still wants to try R & start the MC, her friends have been interfering and sending info she didn't want.
> 
> We have both agreed to take things slow and see where the MC gets us
> 
> People might think I'm mad but she is the love of my life & I want this to work out so much. .


The love of your life doesn't engage in an affair, emotional or otherwise.

I understand you wanting to work it out. But I think she is changing her tune because she thinks you were serious about divorce. 

So yes, go to MC, see what shakes out. But don't be this puppy dog so in love up to your eyeballs that you think she has done a 180 and wants you and only you. It isn't the case(at least not right now). She wants someone else, but the prospect of family and economic devastation are probably what is driving her change of heart. 

Work on what you must, just don't be a fool.

Good luck.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Keep your eyes open until you know for sure she really want you

Good luck


----------



## Decorum

worried79 said:


> She still wants to try R & start the MC, her friends have been interfering and sending info she didn't want.


Hi Worried, sorry you are going through this, you are doing well, the advice has been stellar.

Hey, are these toxic friends whom are acting like a back channel and keeping her updated about OM?

If so eventually they have to go!

For the moment she could tell them "I am in complete no contact with POSOM, out of respect for my marriage and of our friendships please do not become a source of information about him to me!"

If she portrays you as the Ogre who has her locked up in a strong tower and they are just trying to "keep love alive" then she is not "all in" and they think they are doing her a favor. No friends of the marriage these ones! This is the gateway to a tormenting Limbo in the land of "R". Take it slow but DO NOT settle for ANYTHING less then being "ALL IN" on her part!


----------



## worried79

Decorum said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She still wants to try R & start the MC, her friends have been interfering and sending info she didn't want.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Worried, sorry you are going through this, you are doing well, the advice has been stellar.
> 
> Hey, are these toxic friends whom are acting like a back channel and keeping her updated about OM?
> 
> If so eventually they have to go!
> 
> For the moment she could tell them "I am in complete no contact with POSOM, out of respect for my marriage and of our friendships please do not become a source of information about him to me!"
> 
> If she portrays you as the Ogre who has her locked up in a strong tower and they are just trying to "keep love alive" then she is not "all in" and they think they are doing her a favor. No friends of the marriage these ones! This is the gateway to a tormenting Limbo in the land of "R". Take it slow but DO NOT settle for ANYTHING less then being "ALL IN" on her part!
Click to expand...

Hi. 
Taking it slow and taking each day as it comes. 
I'm under the impression that she is ALL IN at the moment and things have been quite nice over Xmas. 
Not taking any of this for granted or looking too much into it. 
As for her friend she doesn't know the OM, she was interfering about housing & child rights etc.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Dont forget to read NMMNG and MMSLP, is a must for your R


----------



## chaos

She could use MC as a face saving attempt, an excuse to show others that the marriage is beyond saving. If she is still in contact with the OM, then you might save yourself the trouble and expense of MC, and go straight for divorce.


----------



## pilotranger

Worried,

Your situation sounds like mine, the warning signs. Constantly texting to this one phone number, always having her phone with her, deleting her messages so there's no trail, etc.

I've had my suspicions of my wife for some time, but no hard evidence. Call it "husband's intuition." Our sex life is one dimensional (me) and she provides "duty sex". We had a big fight (f-bombs) in March and she tells me "I love you, but I'm not in love with you. I'm not sure if I want to stay married, but need to for the kids sake."

We'll hearing that, I was devastated but no hard evidence, until last night. I round two condoms in her briefcase and found her password to her email account. Well, I got in and what I saw just killed me. Emails to one another, nude pics sent back and forth, texting and sexting to each other and what they'd do to each other, etc.

Just devastated. I'm thinking it all started with innocent texting when they worked together and snowballed into what it is today.

Sorry for all the bad negative information, but your situation sounds like mine.

pilotranger


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## worried79

pilotranger said:


> Worried,
> 
> Your situation sounds like mine, the warning signs. Constantly texting to this one phone number, always having her phone with her, deleting her messages so there's no trail, etc.
> 
> I've had my suspicions of my wife for some time, but no hard evidence. Call it "husband's intuition." Our sex life is one dimensional (me) and she provides "duty sex". We had a big fight (f-bombs) in March and she tells me "I love you, but I'm not in love with you. I'm not sure if I want to stay married, but need to for the kids sake."
> 
> We'll hearing that, I was devastated but no hard evidence, until last night. I round two condoms in her briefcase and found her password to her email account. Well, I got in and what I saw just killed me. Emails to one another, nude pics sent back and forth, texting and sexting to each other and what they'd do to each other, etc.
> 
> Just devastated. I'm thinking it all started with innocent texting when they worked together and snowballed into what it is today.
> 
> Sorry for all the bad negative information, but your situation sounds like mine.
> 
> pilotranger


Hi pilotranger. 
That's really harsh finding all that evidence. 
I believe I nipped her affair in the butt before it did get to anything other than kissing etc. 
I know exactly how ya feel mate & it's not good at all. 
She now has no contact whatsoever with him & seems to be genuinely giving it a real go here. 
Still hoping it's not all a big act though. 
Stay strong mate.


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## Augusto

worried79 said:


> Hi pilotranger.
> That's really harsh finding all that evidence.
> I believe I nipped her affair in the butt before it did get to anything other than kissing etc.
> I know exactly how ya feel mate & it's not good at all.
> She now has no contact whatsoever with him & seems to be genuinely giving it a real go here.
> Still hoping it's not all a big act though.
> Stay strong mate.


see "dadof2" story....his WW promised R and all that and really seemed genuine to fix the issues. But could not fully detach from the AP and divorced.


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## worried79

Hi......
Back after a bit of time out for Xmas etc!
Well I have been proved wrong again and her devious ways won't change, I know everyone here said it and I should have been wise but I let my feelings get the better of me. 
It seems she has been nice to me over the last few weeks to get Xmas out of the way & has no intention of even giving me a chance to prove I can change from the person I was. 
I found on the laptop last night that she is arranging viewings on some rental properties, she is obviously planning leaving. 
I am now stronger, healthier & have a grip on my feelings. 
The last thing I want is for her to go and up root the boys from their home so I'm going to swallow my emotions and suggest I leave and they stay in the house, for the boys sake and not hers. We will have to talk sensibly about financial issues and prob stay in the house together a few months maybe to get things sorted. 
I feel like I have taken 100 steps back as I fell for her nicey nicey ways, such a fool I am.


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## Suspecting2014

worried79 said:


> Hi......
> Back after a bit of time out for Xmas etc!
> Well I have been proved wrong again and her devious ways won't change, I know everyone here said it and I should have been wise but I let my feelings get the better of me.
> It seems she has been nice to me over the last few weeks to get Xmas out of the way &* has no intention of even giving me a chance to prove I can change from the person I was.*


WTF!!!

Cheating is a choise not a consecuence.

This is not your fault




worried79 said:


> I found on the laptop last night that she is arranging viewings on some rental properties, she is obviously planning leaving.
> I am now stronger, healthier & have a grip on my feelings.
> The last thing I want is for her to go and up root the boys from their home so I'm going to swallow my emotions and suggest *I leave and they stay in the house,* for the boys sake and not hers. We will have to talk sensibly about financial issues and prob stay in the house together a few months maybe to get things sorted.
> I feel like I have taken 100 steps back as I fell for her nicey nicey ways, such a fool I am.


If you leave your house it may looks like abandonement, so dont do it.

if she wants to leave let her.

As you must know by now, she is still in the fog, her affair was/is deeper than you was willing to accept (PA), and the wrose thing you have ever done is propose R, bed or even cry to stay togueter.

Let her go, do 180 and do not leave your home.

File for D ASAP, this does not mean you are getting D rigth away, it is process you can stop is she ever open her eyes.

I bet her affair just went unthergrown.

Good luck


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## worried79

I did the divorce papers at the start of December, that's when we sort of came up with the idea to tell people to back off and sort this out ourselves and try again. 
Since then she was almost back to her old self, we laughed & joked, talked again.... Hell she even kissed and cuddled me. 
Well it was just her way of passing time as she told me I was emotionally blackmailing her, using the kids or finances against her, she felt pressured to say that she would try again to see if we could work it out. 
I was really hurt when she told me this and like I said it knocked me back again. 

I am willing to leave the house but make it clear and she has to as well that in no way am I abandoning her and the boys. 
I feel getting my own place and getting away is the break I need. 
We will hopefully share custody of the boys and their main home will remain where they are now. 
I know a lot of people think I should stay in the house and her go but I don't want that and my work hours don't work best for the boys school etc, it's hard but it's what I gotta do.


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## GusPolinski

worried79 said:


> Hi......
> Back after a bit of time out for Xmas etc!
> Well I have been proved wrong again and her devious ways won't change, I know everyone here said it and I should have been wise but I let my feelings get the better of me.
> It seems she has been nice to me over the last few weeks to get Xmas out of the way & has no intention of even giving me a chance to prove I can change from the person I was.
> I found on the laptop last night that she is arranging viewings on some rental properties, she is obviously planning leaving.
> I am now stronger, healthier & have a grip on my feelings.
> *The last thing I want is for her to go and up root the boys from their home so I'm going to swallow my emotions and suggest I leave and they stay in the house, for the boys sake and not hers.* We will have to talk sensibly about financial issues and prob stay in the house together a few months maybe to get things sorted.
> I feel like I have taken 100 steps back as I fell for her nicey nicey ways, such a fool I am.


OK, but why can't they stay in the house w/ *you*?

Do you really want her bringing another guy into your house to sleep w/ her in your bed... and w/ your kids in the next room?


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## worried79

GusPolinski said:


> worried79 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi......
> Back after a bit of time out for Xmas etc!
> Well I have been proved wrong again and her devious ways won't change, I know everyone here said it and I should have been wise but I let my feelings get the better of me.
> It seems she has been nice to me over the last few weeks to get Xmas out of the way & has no intention of even giving me a chance to prove I can change from the person I was.
> I found on the laptop last night that she is arranging viewings on some rental properties, she is obviously planning leaving.
> I am now stronger, healthier & have a grip on my feelings.
> *The last thing I want is for her to go and up root the boys from their home so I'm going to swallow my emotions and suggest I leave and they stay in the house, for the boys sake and not hers.* We will have to talk sensibly about financial issues and prob stay in the house together a few months maybe to get things sorted.
> I feel like I have taken 100 steps back as I fell for her nicey nicey ways, such a fool I am.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but why can't they stay in the house w/ *you*?
> 
> Do you really want her bringing another guy into your house to sleep w/ her in your bed... and w/ your kids in the next room?
Click to expand...

I leave for work before 7am & the kids are just getting up around that time & I'm unable to change my hours. 
The way it works at the moment and always has is because the WW teaches from our house when I get back from work on an evening and in a school weds all day and Thursday morning. She does the school drop off and pick ups. 
The less unsettling things are for them the better.


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## italianjob

So you just give up your house and Whole family to the OM.
Well, if you're happy with that...


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## G.J.

Your call and what ever you feel is best FOR YOU

*BUT THE KIDS*
I would stay and simply move into another room and stipulate that until the D is finalized that neither party bring any one of the opposite sex into the house

She will move a guy in with your kids in days/weeks as soon as you move as I would think she's still seeing someone, so if you want your kids around another guy that's up to you, at least you can control the contact they have with another male if your in the house

You have no idea and neither does she know what *traits* a new male has and that would be my main concern, not wanting space to think or what ever

Also it makes it easier on the kids as they will adjust better with a time scale that will take time, not some thing quick...poof dads left !!!!

You messed up once DONT mess it for the kids


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## worried79

G.J. said:


> Your call and what ever you feel is best FOR YOU
> 
> *BUT THE KIDS*
> I would stay and simply move into another room and stipulate that until the D is finalized that neither party bring any one of the opposite sex into the house
> 
> She will move a guy in with your kids in days/weeks as soon as you move as I would think she's still seeing someone, so if you want your kids around another guy that's up to you, at least you can control the contact they have with another male if your in the house
> 
> You have no idea and neither does she know what *traits* a new male has and that would be my main concern, not wanting space to think or what ever
> 
> Also it makes it easier on the kids as they will adjust better with a time scale that will take time, not some thing quick...poof dads left !!!!
> 
> You messed up once DONT mess it for the kids


I won't be leaving soon, it'll take a few months to get things I want to get sorted etc. like the mortgage and other financial stuff. I can't afford to just simply up & leave and she can't, I don't honestly know what's going on in her head and making her think she can just leave.


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## bfree

What lessons are you teaching your kids by leaving?


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## italianjob

So you're leaving but not leaving, divorcing but not divorcing, reconciliating but not reconciliating... Sorry, I got lost, what's the plan really?


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## G.J.

worried79 said:


> I don't honestly know what's going on in her head and making her think she can just leave.


As I said I would think there is some one else....sorry

What about parental support to put kids first and both stay until D is settled, can hers put pressure on her to think of kids welfare first

I hope your doing the 180 hard now...tell me you are please


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## vellocet

Suspecting2014 said:


> If you leave your house it may looks like abandonement, so dont do it.


Abandonment or not, he is still entitled to half the equity in it.

The only thing "abandonment" does is give one spouse the choice of being able to keep the house after a divorce. But the other spouse still has marital equity in it.




> if she wants to leave let her.


But yes, I would prefer the cheating spouse leave the house.


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## vellocet

GusPolinski said:


> OK, but why can't they stay in the house w/ *you*?


Because he is the father. If the mother wants primary custody, she'll get it.




> Do you really want her bringing another guy into your house to sleep w/ her in your bed... and w/ your kids in the next room?


As crappy as a situation it is, she can have whoever she wants, as long as the OM isn't a serial killer or something, in the house with her and the kids.

Sucks, but it is what it is and what fathers just have to put up with.


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## vellocet

italianjob said:


> So you just give up your house and Whole family to the OM.
> Well, if you're happy with that...


If he divorces, he'll have no choice in the matter.

If she wants to be designated as the primary custodial parent, she'll get it.

If she wants to move the OM in, then the father will have no say in the matter unless he can prove OM is a criminal or has abused his kids, etc.

I'm sure he isn't going to be happy with that, but he may not have a choice unless he can get custody. And getting primary custody from the mother is very much an uphill battle usually ending in falling back down the hill.


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## italianjob

vellocet said:


> If he divorces, he'll have no choice in the matter.
> 
> If she wants to be designated as the primary custodial parent, she'll get it.
> 
> If she wants to move the OM in, then the father will have no say in the matter unless he can prove OM is a criminal or has abused his kids, etc.
> 
> I'm sure he isn't going to be happy with that, but he may not have a choice unless he can get custody. And getting primary custody from the mother is very much an uphill battle usually ending in falling back down the hill.


Yeah, better just give it up and be done with it...


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## vellocet

italianjob said:


> Yeah, better just give it up and be done with it...


He isn't giving up anything. So what if he leaves the house. He can get his 1/2 the equity in it and get his own place.

He isn't giving up his kids.


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## worried79

I'm aiming to stay put here until the D is sorted, I'll be bringing all this up with her tonight as I have just had enough now. 
I tried and wanted R so much but she wasn't interested, I need to get myself sorted now as she seems to know what she wants. 
If she wants to get back in touch with the OM she can do once I'm gone.


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## worried79

vellocet said:


> italianjob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, better just give it up and be done with it...
> 
> 
> 
> He isn't giving up anything. So what if he leaves the house. He can get his 1/2 the equity in it and get his own place.
> 
> He isn't giving up his kids.
Click to expand...

There's not enough equity in the house for me to think about. Maybe £10-15k at most.


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## Squeakr

worried79 said:


> There's not enough equity in the house for me to think about. Maybe £10-15k at most.


Still enough to pay for a good lawyer. Look at it that way, or start a college fund for kids, buy a toy that you have wanted but couldn't afford, or a start for the next place you are going to need (either rent/deposits, down payments, or furnishings). Just don't whisk it away like it was nothing.


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## vellocet

worried79 said:


> There's not enough equity in the house for me to think about. Maybe £10-15k at most.


So the question is, who do you want to be responsible for the house? If you want it, stay in it. If not, then get your own place.


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## vellocet

Why does it matter whether or not he stays in the house? Especially if there isn't much equity? 

Sooner or later they both will be living apart. One of them will have the house, the other will have a new place. Simple as that.


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## italianjob

vellocet said:


> He isn't giving up anything. So what if he leaves the house. He can get his 1/2 the equity in it and get his own place.
> 
> He isn't giving up his kids.


If I Remember correctly the OM is still living with mom. This means that the moment he's out of the house the OM is in. If he leaves now they'll be exposed to the new "parent" they even know that mom and dad are splitting.
You're right, in the long run what the mom waits will probably be, but I would give up on something like that only when I'm forced to, if it was me.


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## worried79

Well I had a talk with the WW last night, I can't take anymore and realise R is not going to happen. 
Didn't give her chance to answer what she wanted from all this, I told her I wanted divorce & was leaving her & kids here. 
She wasn't slighty upset, said she'd ask her parents about money & mortgage possibilities, I said the house wasn't to be sold and she needs to make the right arrangements to sort it. 
Also said I wasn't going anywhere until we know what's happening, 
She said she'd tried to give it another go...... I laughed and said well thanks. I was expecting you to at least let me give these tablets you made me get start working rather than 3 weeks in you call it quits.
She said she would give me some cash from her parents contributions but I don't expect any. 
The main focus now is making sure both boys are ok with the new changes that will take place. 
We will be sharing custody and splitting any costs towards them. 
It's gonna be real tough but time will tell how it affects them & also me. 

This forum has been a great help through this terrible time in my life. 
I'd like to thank everyone for the sound advice. 

I will be back and keep updates here.


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## Suspecting2014

I sorry but I believe is the best.

Take care of your self. Eat well, sleep well, etc.

Good luck


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## HobbesTheTiger

Please, read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...prepare-potential-divorce-custody-battle.html and protect yourself and the kids. 

Best wishes


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## IIJokerII

vellocet said:


> If he divorces, he'll have no choice in the matter.
> 
> If she wants to be designated as the primary custodial parent, she'll get it.
> 
> If she wants to move the OM in, then the father will have no say in the matter unless he can prove OM is a criminal or has abused his kids, etc.
> 
> I'm sure he isn't going to be happy with that, but he may not have a choice unless he can get custody. And getting primary custody from the mother is very much an uphill battle usually ending in falling back down the hill.


 Not necessarily Vel. What he has to do is make sure his ducks are in a row, obtain proof about his good quality's, document her shortcomings as a parent, if any exist. If she is head over heals in the throws of an affair then time with the children is deduced. Courts do not care about infidelity anymore, but they do care about the subsequent behavior elsewhere. Even if he loses, fighting is better than quitting. Had I not the courage to do just this and plan accordingly I'd be in the boat of the BH left to pay for it all like a jackass while someone else plays the role of Dad, whomever that might be in the future. Not on my watch.


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## GusPolinski

vellocet said:


> Because he is the father. If the mother wants primary custody, she'll get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As crappy as a situation it is, she can have whoever she wants, as long as the OM isn't a serial killer or something, in the house with her and the kids.
> 
> Sucks, but it is what it is and what fathers just have to put up with.


My point is that she was going to move out. I'd have let her.

I can understand that the logistics of OP's situation make that somewhat more difficult, but still... I'd do everything that I could in order to ensure that she wasn't bringing another man into my home w/ my children present.

OP, maybe do what you can to keep her from doing this. Talk w/ your lawyer about adding verbiage to your separation/divorce paperwork in order to address this.


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## vellocet

IIJokerII said:


> Not necessarily Vel. What he has to do is make sure his ducks are in a row, obtain proof about his good quality's, document her shortcomings as a parent, if any exist. If she is head over heals in the throws of an affair then time with the children is deduced. Courts do not care about infidelity anymore, but they do care about the subsequent behavior elsewhere. Even if he loses, fighting is better than quitting. Had I not the courage to do just this and plan accordingly I'd be in the boat of the BH left to pay for it all like a jackass while someone else plays the role of Dad, whomever that might be in the future. Not on my watch.


I agree, not necessarily. Rarities do happen. Lotteries are won, but I wouldn't bet the bank on it.


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## worried79

Well here I am a week into moving into my own place. 
It's harder than I could ever imagine been apart from my boys. 
I'll post a longer update later once in done at work.


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## vellocet

worried79 said:


> Well here I am a week into moving into my own place.
> It's harder than I could ever imagine been apart from my boys.
> I'll post a longer update later once in done at work.


You are not alone my man. Being away from my kids was terribly hard. The first time I dropped my kids off at their mother's place my oldest clung to me crying saying he didn't want me to leave. Hardest time ever

But you do adjust. It is what it is.

It does get better, believe me. Just make the most of your time with the kids when you have them.

One thing I would have to say is, and although you would want your kids any chance you can get them, it should be for YOUR benefit, not hers.

My x-wife tried to tell me she needed a break and wanted me to be her personal baby sitter. Now I took the kids in the beginning, but I had to shut her down. Basically told her that she wanted custody, child support, and all that came with it. Told her she wanted it, she got it. And if she felt it wasn't fair, I'd trade with her anytime. That shut her up.

Just don't let her tell you what to do or let her control you through the kids.


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## LongWalk

How often can you have the your children sleep over?


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