# Wife denies me sex and says she feels watching porn is cheating?!?!?



## Confusedaf29

My wife and I have been married for 11 years. We have had ups and downs like any other relationship. Since our first child together was born 10 years ago our sex life went in the tank (im lucky if we have sex more than 5 times a year). I don't cheat but I had started watching porn because well I have a high sex drive and she's just never in to it for various reasons the kids her own insecurities depression (that she refuses to get help for) and i still want it. I don't do strip clubs or anything else I just watch porn and handle things myself. She says that I've destroyed her and it's cheating to watch porn. BUT SHE DOSENT WANT TO HAVE SEX!?!? I'm really confused she says it only makes her insecurities worse and makes her feel like **** and makes her depression worse and I'm not sure what to do about that. I partly feel like your insecurities and depression are issues that you have to fix and those are your responsibility to address not mine. I also feel like porn isn't cheating its keeping me from cheating or leaving. I still try to have sex with her but it's always some reason it can't happen and I'm just burnt out. I feel like how much longer should I have to wait for this ****? It sucks I know I could leave and have my way im approached by women often and I don't entertain it because I'm married I don't want to leave because I do care and the other parts of the marrige are good and also the financial toll it would take (im the sole provider) im just spinning wheels here!! Not sure what can help..


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## Personal

Confusedaf29 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 11 years. We have had ups and downs like any other relationship. Since our first child together was born 10 years ago our sex life went in the tank (im lucky if we have sex more than 5 times a year). I don't cheat but I had started watching porn because well I have a high sex drive and she's just never in to it for various reasons the kids her own insecurities depression (that she refuses to get help for) and i still want it. I don't do strip clubs or anything else I just watch porn and handle things myself. She says that I've destroyed her and it's cheating to watch porn. BUT SHE DOSENT WANT TO HAVE SEX!?!? I'm really confused she says it only makes her insecurities worse and makes her feel like *** and makes her depression worse and I'm not sure what to do about that. I partly feel like your insecurities and depression are issues that you have to fix and those are your responsibility to address not mine. I also feel like porn isn't cheating its keeping me from cheating or leaving. I still try to have sex with her but it's always some reason it can't happen and I'm just burnt out. I feel like how much longer should I have to wait for this ***? It sucks I know I could leave and have my way im approached by women often and I don't entertain it because I'm married I don't want to leave because I do care and the other parts of the marrige are good and also the financial toll it would take (im the sole provider) im just spinning wheels here!! Not sure what can help..


Given the fact that your wife has seldom ever wanted to have sex with you through a whole decade. Why on earth would you settle for masturbating to pornography???

I mean seriously WTF???!!!

So my advice to you is find your backbone, then tell your wife to "**** off" with that nonsense, and to also tell her that you are no longer going to settle for being almost celibate. So she can either work with you on finding a way to fix this, or you will start sharing actual sex with other people because you are done with settling for less.


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## bobert

Why is she a SAHM? If you have one child who is 10 she could easily be working at least part-time. Is this just part of her free ride? Seems to me she doesn't want you, just the lifestyle you provide.


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## Diceplayer

Confusedaf29 said:


> I don't want to leave because I do care and the other parts of the marrige are good


And here we have another man who is unhappy with his sex life but will not take the steps necessary to correct it. Your wife has made the rules and knows that you will abide by them and won't leave, thus you have no leverage. If you really want to fix this, then you are going to have to grow some balls and do the hard things that it will take to correct it. You have access to a lot of people here who can help you but if you are unwilling to take the advice and do the hard work, you are wasting people's time.


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## CatholicDad

Put the porn away and work on your marriage. You absolutely need to take your wife to a good therapist. Five times a year is extremely cruel but doesn’t justify your retreat into porn. Use your frustration to attack this problem head on. Try to be very kind, but firm “this is not acceptable for our marriage or any marriage”.


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## D0nnivain

Ask her what she wants you to do. IMO if she won't have sex porn is an alternative & is certainly better than cheating. 

Ask her why she thinks its OK for her to condemn you to a life of celibacy?


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## notmyjamie

It is abusive to demand both celibacy and monogamy in a marriage. Ask your wife if she’d rather you went out and yourself an affair partner? The choice is hers. Lay it on the line. If she’s too depressed to participate in her marriage she needs to get professional help or she’s pretty much telling you the marriage isn’t important to her. Make sure she understands this.


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## Evinrude58

Stick a fork in it. Even if she got on antidepressants—- they make you lose your se. drive. It’s been 10 years. It’s ok to send a frigid wife down the road—- to me.
Jmo


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## LisaDiane

You have given your wife complete and total power over YOUR sex life and sexual expression. So of course she feels like she can tell you what you are allowed to do with your body.

Only YOU can change that, if it's important enough for you.


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## bobsmith

I don't agree with 'work on your marriage'. All that will be is kicking the can further down the road. I highly doubt you will ever get someone that is ok with 5x/yr to any reasonable number. You may not want to face the music "for your kids", but you deserve a life too. 

My first ex deprived me. It was always something with her. I felt SO much better in another relationship where my partner NEEDED action as much as me.


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## Mr. Nail

Confusedaf29 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 11 years. -snip- our first child together was born 10 years ago -snip- for various reasons the kids -snip- I still try to have sex with her-snip- I do care and the other parts of the marriage -snip ...


just to clarify the math married 11 years,
more that one child,
oldest is 10.
Sex averages less than 5 x per year for 10 years. 
Somehow managed to conceive at least one child on that schedule.



Confusedaf29 said:


> -snip- BUT SHE DOSENT WANT TO HAVE SEX!?!? -snip- she says it only makes her insecurities worse and makes her feel like **** and makes her depression worse -snip- I still try to have sex with her but it's always some reason it can't happen -snip- ...


She is sex avoidant
and sex averse 
and it looks a bit like a trauma response.

You are not just in it for the kids.
You demonstrate affection, and feel the non-sexual parts of the marriage are good.

Advice, Like many, I don't see working on the marriage as a step forward for you. She is refusing help and quite likely hiding something. Until she decides to do something about those, sexual frequency is not going to be fixed. There are things you can do to help convince her. They could backfire.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

What she is doing is far worse for your marriage than you resorting to porn for a little relief. I don't think Therapy is the answer as they will just pump her full of ADs and then you will be lucky to get it 5x a year. I think you just got to lay down some hard facts and let her know you can't go much farther in the marriage like this. Yes I know you don't want it to end, but if she feels the same then she will meet you in the middle or atleast figure it out with you.


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## Diana7

She is very wrong for depriving you of sex, but I agree with her about the porn.


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## Baby Fark McGee-Zax

Your wife locked you down with marriage and a family, she has what she wanted, so her job is done. Sorry to be so blunt but it's a tale as old as time. She will not change. If you threaten her with divorce she will do what's called hysterical bonding and love bombing (look those 2 things up) you will think it's getting better, then after she has you placated you will return to the status quo. And the cycle will repeat until you decide you've had enough or accept it. And she isn't required to have sex if she does not want to. However, she has NO right to unilaterally decide that you are now forever celibate, must remain monogamous, AND can't get sexual relief with your own friggin hand. That's abusive in my opinion. You need to decide if you can live with it or not because she will not suddenly change her mind. She has no respect for you or your feelings. She's dictated that your sex life is over and has no regard for your feelings. If you love someone, you care about their thoughts, feelings, and desires. Sorry bro, your wife has put you in a, lose-lose situation and has zero F's to give.


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## Trident

Diana7 said:


> She is very wrong for depriving you of sex, but I agree with her about the porn.


So if he was to do things your way he could masturbate to images in his head but not on his computer?

Makes perfect sense


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## Al_Bundy

Baby Fark McGee-Zax said:


> Your wife locked you down with marriage and a family, she has what she wanted, so her job is done. Sorry to be so blunt but it's a tale as old as time. She will not change. If you threaten her with divorce she will do what's called hysterical bonding and love bombing (look those 2 things up) you will think it's getting better, then after she has you placated you will return to the status quo. And the cycle will repeat until you decide you've had enough or accept it. And she isn't required to have sex if she does not want to. However, she has NO right to unilaterally decide that you are now forever celibate, must remain monogamous, AND can't get sexual relief with your own friggin hand. That's abusive in my opinion. You need to decide if you can live with it or not because she will not suddenly change her mind. She has no respect for you or your feelings. She's dictated that your sex life is over and has no regard for your feelings. If you love someone, you care about their thoughts, feelings, and desires. Sorry bro, your wife has put you in a, lose-lose situation and has zero F's to give.


At this point I'd doubt she'd even bother trying to placate him and just call an attorney with her sad story about how she's a SAHM with no skills, married to a mean old man.


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## Baby Fark McGee-Zax

Al_Bundy said:


> At this point I'd doubt she'd even bother trying to placate him and just call an attorney with her sad story about how she's a SAHM with no skills, married to a mean old man.


I loathe people, especially women, like this. It makes us all look bad.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Al_Bundy said:


> At this point I'd doubt she'd even bother trying to placate him and just call an attorney with her sad story about how she's a SAHM with no skills, married to a mean old man.


Yikes, SAHM, must have missed that. Poor guy will be living in a one bedroom apartment, but atleast he will have his freedom (and porn).


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## Baby Fark McGee-Zax

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yikes, SAHM, must have missed that. Poor guy will be living in a one bedroom apartment, but atleast he will have his freedom (and porn).


Sometimes it is worth it though.


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## hamadryad

Baby Fark McGee-Zax said:


> Sometimes it is worth it though.



Easy for people on the outside to say, not as easy as it is for the people that have to live it.....

Here's the thing from my standpoint, anyway...

Never will I tell anyone they should "pack their bags and leave".....How can I say that? Based on a paragraph from some random guy complaining he isn't getting laid? Nah...

I know people are well intentioned, but there are SO many variables....And who knows? Maybe the people suggesting immediately leaving got dropped on their heads themselves so they feel it's somehow "normal"...Again, no disrespect, but someone who has been married relatively long, has a child with this person. untold obligations, etc, this isn't something people can "just do".....It would take a LOT of careful planning, with the child being a big part of what you do....or don't do...

Ok..that said...

She(this woman) has no right at this point to tell you how you need to get off....She lost that a long time ago.,..The anti porn Nazi's have chimed in, .....well....let them live in your shoes for a while and then they can talk, otherwise disregard that crap as well....They don't have any right to tell you either....

Anyway, why does she have to know what you do to get by? Who cares what she thinks...She checked out...Its your turn to be a man and _handle it like a man..._

I'll cut and paste this from another reply I made the other day...The same applies..

There are 3 options...

-You stay, accept that this is the life you have, and "take care of yourself" when you want to(that's probably already what you are doing)

-You stay and find what you need on the street...Depending on what type of guy you are it won't be difficult to get/find, but then you have all the other crap that comes along with this option...Believe me though, a lot of guys are out there doing this...I am not justifying it, just that it's not rare...

-You leave, blow it up, and start over... 

That's about it....period....

To expect her to change is ridiculous...She may just be uninterested in sex period, but I believe those folks are pretty rare...More than likely is that she married and decided to date you for other reasons than the fact that you make her panties wet...She got by for a while and gave you what amounted to duty sex, but she is losing(or lost entirely) the ability to fake it...

I've never knowingly been in a situation where a woman gave up on me sexually, so I can't speak from experience...I may have turned them off in other ways, lol, but never sexually...So I don't really have a personal perspective other than I wouldn't EVER coerce, beg, ask, threaten, pity, start thread about, etc ANY woman who decided I wasn't fckable....for whatever reason....I would quit doing that...immediately.....

I know what I would do...but you are you, and do whatever works best for you...My only advise I would give is that if you decide to stay and "cope" with it, then you need to exclude her from any of it...

And if she ever asks, respond with a simple...."what do you care"?


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## Kaliber

@Confusedaf29 I believe your wife married you as a sperm donor and a provider, you did your job, time to move on or keep jerking off secretly in the toilet!


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## Baby Fark McGee-Zax

hamadryad said:


> Easy for people on the outside to say, not as easy as it is for the people that have to live it.....
> 
> Here's the thing from my standpoint, anyway...
> 
> Never will I tell anyone they should "pack their bags and leave".....How can I say that? Based on a paragraph from some random guy complaining he isn't getting laid? Nah...
> 
> I know people are well intentioned, but there are SO many variables....And who knows? Maybe the people suggesting immediately leaving got dropped on their heads themselves so they feel it's somehow "normal"...Again, no disrespect, but someone who has been married relatively long, has a child with this person. untold obligations, etc, this isn't something people can "just do".....It would take a LOT of careful planning, with the child being a big part of what you do....or don't do...
> 
> Ok..that said...
> 
> She(this woman) has no right at this point to tell you how you need to get off....She lost that a long time ago.,..The anti porn Nazi's have chimed in, .....well....let them live in your shoes for a while and then they can talk, otherwise disregard that crap as well....They don't have any right to tell you either....
> 
> Anyway, why does she have to know what you do to get by? Who cares what she thinks...She checked out...Its your turn to be a man and _handle it like a man..._
> 
> I'll cut and paste this from another reply I made the other day...The same applies..
> 
> There are 3 options...
> 
> -You stay, accept that this is the life you have, and "take care of yourself" when you want to(that's probably already what you are doing)
> 
> -You stay and find what you need on the street...Depending on what type of guy you are it won't be difficult to get/find, but then you have all the other crap that comes along with this option...Believe me though, a lot of guys are out there doing this...I am not justifying it, just that it's not rare...
> 
> -You leave, blow it up, and start over...
> 
> That's about it....period....
> 
> To expect her to change is ridiculous...She may just be uninterested in sex period, but I believe those folks are pretty rare...More than likely is that she married and decided to date you for other reasons than the fact that you make her panties wet...She got by for a while and gave you what amounted to duty sex, but she is losing(or lost entirely) the ability to fake it...
> 
> I've never knowingly been in a situation where a woman gave up on me sexually, so I can't speak from experience...I may have turned them off in other ways, lol, but never sexually...So I don't really have a personal perspective other than I wouldn't EVER coerce, beg, ask, threaten, pity, start thread about, etc ANY woman who decided I wasn't fckable....for whatever reason....I would quit doing that...immediately.....
> 
> I know what I would do...but you are you, and do whatever works best for you...My only advise I would give is that if you decide to stay and "cope" with it, then you need to exclude her from any of it...
> 
> And if she ever asks, respond with a simple...."what do you care"?


Considering I've lived this experience, long ago, I can say with certainty that this is the deal. I read all the books, went to support groups, had therapy all in an effort to change the status of my relationship thinking I was the problem. This is a very predictable cycle with a very predictable outcome that I had to learn the hard way. OP will inevitably have to choose whether to accept and live with the status quo or walk away because you can't force your spouse to change. He's fighting a losing battle because only she can effect the necessary change to make the marriage better. Chances of her doing that long-term are so negligible it's better to not live on hopium. Just go to the dead bedroom sub on reddit if you don't believe me. This is a common phenomenon that has it's own cycle and likely outcomes just like abuse has its own well known cycle and likely outcomes. I'm not speaking from a subjective point of view, but one that's been studied quite a bit.


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## Divinely Favored

Confusedaf29 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 11 years. We have had ups and downs like any other relationship. Since our first child together was born 10 years ago our sex life went in the tank (im lucky if we have sex more than 5 times a year). I don't cheat but I had started watching porn because well I have a high sex drive and she's just never in to it for various reasons the kids her own insecurities depression (that she refuses to get help for) and i still want it. I don't do strip clubs or anything else I just watch porn and handle things myself. She says that I've destroyed her and it's cheating to watch porn. BUT SHE DOSENT WANT TO HAVE SEX!?!? I'm really confused she says it only makes her insecurities worse and makes her feel like *** and makes her depression worse and I'm not sure what to do about that. I partly feel like your insecurities and depression are issues that you have to fix and those are your responsibility to address not mine. I also feel like porn isn't cheating its keeping me from cheating or leaving. I still try to have sex with her but it's always some reason it can't happen and I'm just burnt out. I feel like how much longer should I have to wait for this ***? It sucks I know I could leave and have my way im approached by women often and I don't entertain it because I'm married I don't want to leave because I do care and the other parts of the marrige are good and also the financial toll it would take (im the sole provider) im just spinning wheels here!! Not sure what can help..


Well....I see withholding sex from a spouse as sexually immoral behavior and grounds for divorce, same boat as cheating. It is immoral to withhold sex knowing your partner made vows to forsake all others and now she is forsaking her husband also.

It is different if there was an injury or something. But if a spouse just does not feel like it any more or it is hormonal/mental and they refuse to get help for it, they are doing it intentionally.


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## MJJEAN

Mr. Nail said:


> Sex averages less than 5 x per year for 10 years.
> Somehow managed to conceive at least one child on that schedule.


Not a mystery at all, really. Head over to Reddit and read through the Deadbedrooms subs. Most of the fellas there are there because they have sex 3-10 times a year or less, but won't leave due to kids conceived during their sexless relationships. Women tend to want sex around ovulation. Biology working as intended. Take a desperate for crumbs husband, a wife suddenly wanting sex, and add in that birth control hasn't been a priority since there usually isn't a need for it. WHAMMO- baby.

One of the women on the DB sub has had sex with her husband 3x in 5 years. 2 of those encounters resulted in pregnancy. 

It would almost be funny if it wasn't so sad.


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## aaronj

Mr. Nail said:


> just to clarify the math married 11 years,
> more that one child,
> oldest is 10.
> Sex averages less than 5 x per year for 10 years.
> Somehow managed to conceive at least one child on that schedule.


He said the paucity of sex occurred after the child was born. No indication what the sex life was like before then.


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## Marc878

You have yourself stuck in a no win situation. Talk = nothing 

Get out or live with what you’ve got.


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## MattMatt

@Confusedaf29 You have destroyed her? That sounds like gaslighting to me.

I would suggest that counselling as a couple would be of potential benefit.


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## Spotthedeaddog

What do you get out of the relationship apart from sex?

For a lot of guys the answer is either; nothing, headaches, or debt.

So if the sex stops .... leave. She has lodt interest in you and isn't respecting you or who you are, or your relationship. Chances are she's got what she wanted from the relationship and now is just trying to cut you out of her life so you'll go away (since she doesn't respectyou enough to break up, orrefuses to see hersef as the one who wuit/divorced). She's basically waiting for you to do something bad enough to get you to move out of HER home (until you do soimething socially bad enough she can't win max value in a divorce, and socially can't accuse you of wrongdoing and chuck you out, so she has to freeze/wait you out until you do. eg cheat, get in debt, she finds a better option, equity gets to peak, or just gets totally fed up with you).

Often women don't self analyse that well, so unlikely she's even aweare she's doing it ,and is just going with her "feelings" at the moment. It's not until those "feelings" reach 'better option' or 'had enough' that she'll self-conclude you are the problem and that the only solution is to remove you.


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## DownByTheRiver

Trident said:


> So if he was to do things your way he could masturbate to images in his head but not on his computer?
> 
> Makes perfect sense


Why not? There haven't always been porn videos, you know, and seems to me men weren't quite as frenetic and extreme and entitled before those came along in the recent past. It doesn't perpetuate the dark side of the porn industry that way and you don't get a bunch of extreme sexual ideas into your head if you confine it to your own imagination. IMO, already sexually needy men (whether married or single) are only making themselves more horny and focused on sex by watching porn. They're just making their situation worse. And it's giving them false expectations galore.


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## Evinrude58

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why not? There haven't always been porn videos, you know, and *seems to me men weren't quite as frenetic and extreme and entitled *before those came along in the recent past. It doesn't perpetuate the dark side of the porn industry that way and you don't get a bunch of extreme sexual ideas into your head if you confine it to your own imagination. IMO, already sexually needy men (whether married or single) are only making themselves more horny and focused on sex by watching porn. They're just making their situation worse. And it's giving them false expectations galore.


yeah,or instead of watching porn a man can dump his frigid wife who has zero feelings for anything other than his bank account, and go find a decent partner that actually wants his romantic attention.

frenetic and entitled…. Laughable.


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## DownByTheRiver

Evinrude58 said:


> yeah,or instead of watching porn a man can dump his frigid wife who has zero feelings for anything other than his bank account, and go find a decent partner that actually wants his romantic attention.
> 
> frenetic and entitled…. Laughable.


The latter is certainly what I would recommend. I've been consistent that certain types of men choose golddiggers to have sex with someone they ordinarily wouldn't be able to attract -- and that's on them. And I have no respect for goldiggers because they too are just another form of sex worker and their keepers just another john.


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## Evinrude58

Some people aren’t really gold diggers, they’re just users.


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## Luckylucky

I have a few female friends that I’ve known for decades that sound like your wife. Body issues, depression they don’t really ever get help for, blah blah blah. Won’t have sex but scream blue murder if anyone even smiles at their husband.


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## Trident

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why not? There haven't always been porn videos, you know, and seems to me men weren't quite as frenetic and extreme and entitled before those came along in the recent past. It doesn't perpetuate the dark side of the porn industry that way and you don't get a bunch of extreme sexual ideas into your head if you confine it to your own imagination. IMO, already sexually needy men (whether married or single) are only making themselves more horny and focused on sex by watching porn. They're just making their situation worse. And it's giving them false expectations galore.


Porn (and prostitution) has been around in one form or another for the better part of a century if not longer, it's nothing new.

No clue what sort of connection you're making between the greater availability of porn via the internet and as a result, men being "frenetic, extreme, and entitled" nor do you make a distinction between men who enjoy watching porn and women who enjoy it as well- and lots of women enjoy porn, even during sex with their partners.

A lot of porn is simply people having sex in various ways, most of it isn't about "deep dark extreme sex" that puts crazy ideas in the minds of most men who watch it.

Watching porn doesn't make men more horny and sex focused just like playing violent video games doesn't incite the participants to go out and shoot up the local shopping mall.

There's nothing about your typical porn video that builds "false expectations" unless you mean that the actors and actresses tend to be hot- Ron Jeremy being a notable exception. There are a lot of hot men and women in the "real world" as well, and most of the sexual acts are the same as what happens in the bed of the average couple that engages in intimacy on a regular basis.

Your naivety and misconceptions about sex and pornography are simply astounding. Are you a virgin by chance?


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## DownButNotOut

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why not? There haven't always been porn videos, you know, and seems to me men weren't quite as frenetic and extreme and entitled before those came along in the recent past. It doesn't perpetuate the dark side of the porn industry that way and you don't get a bunch of extreme sexual ideas into your head if you confine it to your own imagination. IMO, already sexually needy men (whether married or single) are only making themselves more horny and focused on sex by watching porn. They're just making their situation worse. And it's giving them false expectations galore.


Yeah, before that there were photos, and drawings, and books, and 3000 year old petroglyphs carved into cave walls.

How about penthouse letters? Or erotic graphic novels? Books? Are those ok to masturbate to?

The bottom line is men need sex. Straight up need it. A sexless marriage is abuse, and no thinking woman who withholds sex should act surprised if her hubby is taking matters into his own hands, with whatever aids he likes to.


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## Trident

DownButNotOut said:


> no thinking woman who withholds sex should act surprised if her hubby is taking matters into his own hands


I see what you did there


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## Personal

DownButNotOut said:


> A sexless marriage is abuse, and no thinking woman who withholds sex should act surprised if her hubby is taking matters into his own hands, with whatever aids he likes to.


Although I don't share your opinion that a sexless marriage is abuse at all (I mean really get a grip!), since if someone doesn't like being in a sexless marriage their are multiple ways to fix that. I do concur that no-one male or female should be surprised that their spouse will meet sexual shortfalls elsewhere if they don't share sex with them.

Likewise I also think pornography and masturbation for anyone is perfectly fine and is dandy when combined. Since the creation and viewing of pornography is a normal and natural human behaviour, which has been with us ever since we have been able to draw, carve and sculpt. While masturbation is simply inherent in us as primates.

It is also worth noting that no one in their right mind should believe that they are owed sexual fidelity, in a nominally monogamous sexual relationship from their sexual partner. If they withhold sharing sex with them frequently, for the most part or interminably going forward.

That said what baffles me is why anyone settles for choosing to masturbate with or without pornography, as an alternative to simply sharing sex with other people in real life, when faced with a sexual partner (in a supposedly monogamous sexual relationship) who has unilaterally turned the sex tap off.

One thing for sure while ever I am still physically able, if I ever find myself with a sexual partner who often, mostly or always withholds sharing sex with me. I will have no hesitation in having my sexual desires satiated with others. Whether I choose to remain with the withholding partner or otherwise.

Oh and it's also worth noting, there would be far less sexless marriages. If most men and women (because lots of men withhold sex as well) when faced with withholding sexual partners, immediately divorced their frigid behinds immediately upon such behaviour becoming apparent.

Which goes back to the nonsensical idea that a sexless marriage is abuse. If you don't like being in a sexless marriage, do something about it. Otherwise have some integrity and be honest, by owning your own voluntary choice of choosing to stay in a sexless marriage.


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## Personal

DownByTheRiver said:


> IMO, already sexually needy men (whether married or single) are only making themselves more horny and focused on sex by watching porn. They're just making their situation worse.


Yep why waste it on pornography? When they should get themselves out there and start sharing actual in-person sex with other people, in lieu of their withholding sexual partners.

That said I really hope @Confusedaf29 is now getting his end wet with other women instead of just masturbating.


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## Rob_1

Personal said:


> One thing for sure while ever I am still physically able, if I ever find myself with a sexual partner who often, mostly or always withholds sharing sex with me. I will have no hesitation in having my sexual desires satiated with others. Whether I choose to remain with the withholding partner or otherwise


Me, I chose to leave. I divorced my first wife. When after a little more than three months of blatantly turning me down for sex, I said DIVORCE. Within 24 hrs after that I was in a motel having sex with a younger pretty thing. It felt really good.


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## DownButNotOut

Personal said:


> Which goes back to the nonsensical idea that a sexless marriage is abuse. If you don't like being in a sexless marriage, do something about it. Otherwise have some integrity and be honest, by owning your own voluntary choice of choosing to stay in a sexless marriage.


It's not abuse if you can leave? That's the biggest pile of garbage I've heard.


----------



## Personal

DownButNotOut said:


> It's not abuse if you can leave? That's the biggest pile of garbage I've heard.


This may surprise you, but being married to someone in Western civilisation does not entitle you to have sex with them whenever, at all or how often you like. Given that legal reality, it is not abusive for a person to choose not to have sex with their spouse.

At the end of the day if reality does not actually conform with your beliefs, the sensible thing would be for you to adjust your beliefs.


----------



## DownButNotOut

Personal said:


> This may surprise you, but being married to someone in Western civilisation does not entitle you to have sex with them whenever, at all or how often you like. *Given that legal reality, it is not abusive for a person to choose not to have sex with their spouse.*
> 
> At the end of the day if reality does not actually conform with your beliefs, the sensible thing would be for you to adjust your beliefs.


This may surprise you. But that's crap.

Spend 5 minutes in the sex in marriage board, and see the effect sexless marriages have on men. They are in abusive relationships.


----------



## MattMatt

DownButNotOut said:


> This may surprise you. But that's crap.
> 
> Spend 5 minutes in the sex in marriage board, and see the effect sexless marriages have on men. They are in abusive relationships.


Because often the withholding of sex is only a component part of a dysfunctional relationship.


----------



## In Absentia

Personal said:


> Given that legal reality, it is not abusive for a person to choose not to have sex with their spouse.


It's not legally abusive, but it's emotionally abusive. Of course we can all leave the marriage, but that's not the point.


----------



## Blondilocks

Trident said:


> Your naivety and misconceptions about sex and pornography are simply astounding. Are you a virgin by chance?


LOL😂 This lady came of age during the sexual revolution of the sixties. There isn't a chance in hell that she is a virgin. I imagine she could teach you a few things about sex.

Out of the mouths of babes...


----------



## hamadryad

I hear what people are saying, "just leave"...It's true, you can "just leave"...but....

In many cases, that means kids suffer, families suffer, enormous lifestyle change and often financial ruin.., etc..etc...Divorce is almost always _very_ hard....cheating on your spouse is even harder than that....it's like a rat maze with no cheese and no exit....

While I get that individuals in a marriage aren't really then forced to give sex under any conditions, it does create a huge problem...And it is often quite ironic when a lot of women turn off the sex, but then shoot down any attempt the guy makes to cope with it...

I say in those situations you just handle it...What that means is anyone's interpretation, but one should never let another have that level of control...

I've found over the years that a lot of women don't pick men because they are sexually appealing to them...They trade that for security, material things, status, etc...Well, you can't do that, then flip the script...


----------



## In Absentia

hamadryad said:


> I've found over the years that a lot of women don't pick men because they are sexually appealing to them...They trade that for security, material things, status, etc...Well, you can't do that, then flip the script...


My wife definitely picked me to have babies...  I obliged. I agree with you that sometimes leaving is almost impossible, especially when young children are involved. The relationship must be really awful for men to leave. Not even duty sex is a deal breaker, because we are still getting _some_ sex. A totally sexless marriage and cheating are the deal breakers for me and I guess for most men? Who knows...


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Trident said:


> Porn (and prostitution) has been around in one form or another for the better part of a century if not longer, it's nothing new.
> 
> No clue what sort of connection you're making between the greater availability of porn via the internet and as a result, men being "frenetic, extreme, and entitled" nor do you make a distinction between men who enjoy watching porn and women who enjoy it as well- and lots of women enjoy porn, even during sex with their partners.
> 
> A lot of porn is simply people having sex in various ways, most of it isn't about "deep dark extreme sex" that puts crazy ideas in the minds of most men who watch it.
> 
> Watching porn doesn't make men more horny and sex focused just like playing violent video games doesn't incite the participants to go out and shoot up the local shopping mall.
> 
> There's nothing about your typical porn video that builds "false expectations" unless you mean that the actors and actresses tend to be hot- Ron Jeremy being a notable exception. There are a lot of hot men and women in the "real world" as well, and most of the sexual acts are the same as what happens in the bed of the average couple that engages in intimacy on a regular basis.
> 
> Your naivety and misconceptions about sex and pornography are simply astounding. Are you a virgin by chance?


😂

Trident, I hope someday you have a teenage girl and you start thinking about how you would feel if some scumbag started grooming her for sex work and making porn videos. To quote yourself, "your misconceptions about sex and pornography are simply astounding."


----------



## DownByTheRiver

DownButNotOut said:


> Yeah, before that there were photos, and drawings, and books, and 3000 year old petroglyphs carved into cave walls.
> 
> How about penthouse letters? Or erotic graphic novels? Books? Are those ok to masturbate to?
> 
> The bottom line is men need sex. Straight up need it. A sexless marriage is abuse, and no thinking woman who withholds sex should act surprised if her hubby is taking matters into his own hands, with whatever aids he likes to.


I have always said people should masturbate. That wasn't the subject. Objecting to watching porn and objecting to masturbating are two different things.


----------



## Quad73

DownButNotOut said:


> Yeah, before that there were photos, and drawings, and books, and 3000 year old petroglyphs carved into cave walls.
> 
> How about penthouse letters? Or erotic graphic novels? Books? Are those ok to masturbate to?
> 
> The bottom line is men need sex. Straight up need it. A sexless marriage is abuse, and no thinking woman who withholds sex should act surprised if her hubby is taking matters into his own hands, with whatever aids he likes to.


@MattMatt I'd be interested in starting a thread re TAMer's thoughts on their definition of porn, which has (mistakenly I think) become synonymous w hard core videos, cam girls, etc whereas relatively tame erotica such as still pics in a magazine, drawings, are left out of the conversation. 

* Would that subject violate any forum rules? 

* Has the topic already been covered too many times?

Sorry for the tj


----------



## Evinrude58

There’s always this bs about the husband thinking he’s “entitled to sex”. Nope, that’s not what most married men are thinking. They’re heartbroken because their wives don’t romantically desire them like they do her. They don’t want entitled duty sex. They want passionate I WANT YOU sex, like most men get from their wives. 

These women that cut their husband off are deserving and ENTITLED to a swift divorce.
Because they don’t love their husband as a wife should. I’m sure there are exceptions due to medical problems and such.

My experience has been that most women, especially from 35-45 and older, want sex just as much if not more than men. Any man who thinks otherwise has not had the same experience I have had. Sexless marriages are a farce, and those who endure them are not doing themselves or anyone else any favors.
There are loving, happy, healthy women out there that have normal sexual appetites. The ones that don’t aren’t going to be changed. They shouldn’t be tolerated when they are harshly telling their husband to go **** himself, either.


----------



## hamadryad

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have always said people should masturbate. That wasn't the subject. *Objecting to watching porn and objecting to masturbating are two different things.*



I get what you are saying.....but it's almost like giving a hungry guy a bowl of soup, then tell him he has to eat it with a butter knife..😂😛

Anyway, I generally agree with your stance on the topic, but then where is the line drawn? Exploitation of people(be it women, children, or yes, even men) has gone on forever and is present in all forms of existence...The clothes you wear, the food you put on your table. etc...Is it right to just cherry pick what exploitation to take a stand on?


----------



## Trident

DownByTheRiver said:


> Trident, I hope someday you have a teenage girl and you start thinking about how you would feel if some scumbag started grooming her for sex work and making porn videos. To quote yourself, "your misconceptions about sex and pornography are simply astounding."


I am aware there are dark sides to the porn industry and there is exploitation of some of the men, women and children who are involved in it. You make the case that porn should be boycotted because of that exploitation and you'd have a fairly good argument to which I would not argue, however not every porn star is an abused man, woman or child being forced into it against their will.

But- the topic of this thread, this argument, debate, or whatever you want to call it isn't about exploitation in the porn industry, and it isn't about my teenage daughters and how I'd feel if they were somehow coerced into pornography. Yes I'm aware that every woman I watch having sex in a video is some guy's daughter. It clearly doesn't stop me or many other guys from watching it.

As is usual when someone doesn't have anything to support their side of a debate, they simply move the goal posts and pick something irrelevant to argue about.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

hamadryad said:


> I get what you are saying.....but it's almost like giving a hungry guy a bowl of soup, then tell him he has to eat it with a butter knife..😂😛
> 
> Anyway, I generally agree with your stance on the topic, but then where is the line drawn? Exploitation of people(be it women, children, or yes, even men) has gone on forever and is present in all forms of existence...The clothes you wear, the food you put on your table. etc...Is it right to just cherry pick what exploitation to take a stand on?


Well, my generation are the first generation who don't have to submit to that crap and are trying to help change it. Because yes it has gone on for centuries.

I was reading a variety of stuff recently and it said women's biggest fear in dating was being assaulted or murdered, and men's biggest fear was the woman would be fat.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Trident said:


> I am aware there are dark sides to the porn industry and there is exploitation of some of the men, women and children who are involved in it. You make the case that porn should be boycotted because of that exploitation and you'd have a fairly good argument to which I would not argue, however not every porn star is an abused man, woman or child being forced into it against their will.
> 
> But- the topic of this thread, this argument, debate, or whatever you want to call it isn't about exploitation in the porn industry, and it isn't about my teenage daughters and how I'd feel if they were somehow coerced into pornography. Yes I'm aware that every woman I watch having sex in a video is some guy's daughter. It clearly doesn't stop me or many other guys from watching it.
> 
> As is usual when someone doesn't have anything to support their side of a debate, they simply move the goal posts and pick something irrelevant to argue about.


It isn't irrelevant. It should be a core consideration.


----------



## Trident

DownByTheRiver said:


> It isn't irrelevant. It should be a core consideration.


Of course, especially since the bulk of your original argument against porn has no merit.


----------



## DownButNotOut

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have always said people should masturbate. That wasn't the subject. Objecting to watching porn and objecting to masturbating are two different things.


What about magazines? penthouse letters? anime? manga? books?

If OP's wife isn't going to help him with his problem, then I don't think she should get to dictate how he expresses his sexuality solo. If she doesn't want him watching porn, maybe she should join in.


----------



## Trident

DownButNotOut said:


> What about magazines? penthouse letters? anime? manga? books?
> 
> If OP's wife isn't going to help him with his problem, then I don't think she should get to dictate how he expresses his sexuality solo. If she doesn't want him watching porn, maybe she should join in.


I don't know about anyone else but I keep confusing @DownButNotOut with @DownByTheRiver


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Trident said:


> Of course, especially since the bulk of your original argument against porn has no merit.


According to you, the expert on all things porn. 🤣


----------



## Trident

DownByTheRiver said:


> According to you, the expert on all things porn. 🤣


You're not wrong. I'm not trying to brag but the largest folder on my hard drive is labeled XXX.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

DownButNotOut said:


> What about magazines? penthouse letters? anime? manga? books?
> 
> If OP's wife isn't going to help him with his problem, then I don't think she should get to dictate how he expresses his sexuality solo. If she doesn't want him watching porn, maybe she should join in.


I think anime is crazy odd, but I have no objection to cartoon figures doing porn since they're imaginary! No problem with sex in books or magazines. Penthouse forum fake letters reminds me of TAM. 

I'm very familiar with early porn that had photos. The earliest I remember was Nazis raping women. Apparently guys really got off on that. Disgusting. That's pre-Playboy. Lots of people posed for Playboy who were recruited, while others did it for publicity, like actresses. None of it involves as many people and as much sex working as the explosion of post-internet porn videos. Forgive me for having a care about young stupid girls being recruited and groomed into it and ruining their lives that way, and others who are human-trafficked into it and don't even profit from it. Nowadays if you have a missing teen, you have to watch porn to see if you can find her. 

As for "If OP's wife isn't going to help him with his problem," it is his problem, but it's also her prerogative to lose respect for him for how he deals with it. I've only seen one or two women on this forum complain about their husband or bf masturbating, but many complain about porn because of the way it has affected their husband's expectations and sometimes even performance, but I've seen a lot of men complain if their wives did. We have an active thread right now with a guy livid because she used a vibrator and her imagination.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Trident said:


> I don't know about anyone else but I keep confusing @DownButNotOut with @DownByTheRiver


I do too, and I am one of them.


----------



## DownButNotOut

DownByTheRiver said:


> I do too, and I am one of them.


I've been know to do a double take from time to time too.


----------



## Laurentium

DownButNotOut said:


> I've been know to do a double take from time to time too.


Oh come on now, one's a doggie and the other's a big mustard-coloured "D"


----------



## Laurentium

My position on the original question is roughly as in this article: https://www.martyklein.com/is-watching-porn-a-form-of-infidelity/

So what should happen in a marriage when one partner doesn't feel the desire for sex? I've been in that situation, with a wife who didn't want sex. (And by the way, men sometimes lose desire too). First thing to say, it's rarely a conscious decision by the LDP (low desire partner). It's not (usually) like they just decided to hurt their partner. If this was the case, that needs looking into. 

In my case, my wife was an intelligent and kind person, who clearly wasn't doing it to hurt me. And the last thing I would have wanted would be to persuade her to have sex that she would have hated. What I wanted to hear from her was, basically, _"I regret this, and I'll do everything I can to find out why it's happening and fix it -- but no promises_". That "do everything" would have included medical investigation of hormone levels, and counselling. Her response was pretty lukewarm; it seemed she not only didn't want sex, but also didn't really want to want sex. I pointed out to her that this was a huge change from the person she had been, and didn't that make her curious? 

In the end, she invited me to end the marriage, and I did. There are no bad feelings on either side, as far as I'm aware. And as far as I know (which I quite likely would, as we live in the same neighbourhood) she's not with anyone else. Given that she's an excellent problem-solving person, I'm puzzled that she'd rather end the marriage than try to figure out what was happening, but that's life.


----------



## Personal

DownButNotOut said:


> This may surprise you. But that's crap.
> 
> Spend 5 minutes in the sex in marriage board, and see the effect sexless marriages have on men. They are in abusive relationships.


Have you ever been in a sexless marriage, and if you have are you still in that sexless marriage or have you divorced that spouse?


----------



## In Absentia

Laurentium said:


> Given that she's an excellent problem-solving person, I'm puzzled that she'd rather end the marriage than try to figure out what was happening, but that's life.


It's happened to me as well. Intelligent wife, two degrees, unable or not wanting to resolve the issues. My hunch is that she knew very well what was wrong but didn't want to confront her ghosts and didn't want to communicate them to me. Or at least not the seriousness of the issues. Result? Our marriage disintegration. That's life.


----------



## Laurentium

In Absentia said:


> My hunch is that she knew very well what was wrong


Sorry to hear that. In my case, I don't think my wife had any idea. (But as always I could be mistaken).


----------



## In Absentia

Laurentium said:


> In my case, I don't think my wife had any idea. (But as always I could be mistaken).


Maybe, maybe...


----------



## Trident

DownByTheRiver said:


> Nowadays if you have a missing teen, you have to watch porn to see if you can find her.


Who knew? I was always under the mistaken impression that if a teen goes missing, maybe they simply ran off to be with friends or a partner or maybe to be on their own or whatever. Now, thanks to your post I can naturally assume that every missing teenager is going to be abused and will show up in a porn video.


----------



## DownButNotOut

Personal said:


> Have you ever been in a sexless marriage, and if you have are you still in that sexless marriage or have you divorced that spouse?


Yes I have. Years of pain, and loss of self worth. Years of trying every advice column, every self help book, every statement, hint, or suggestion she made. That's the insidious thing, there's always that hope hanging there that this next thing will be a fix. And men are wired for see-problem-fix-problem. So she can keep the status quo indefinitely by dangling that carrot of "if you'd just do/be like X I'd feel like more sex". I'd probably still be there, suffering, if I hadn't found her hidden credit card debt to the tune of $60k.

In the end I left as a shell of the man I was in the beginning. She got my house (paid for in full with my family inheritance). I got every penny of that debt, and a nice alimony bill until retirement. But now I'm feeling much more like my old self, and can see what those sexless years did to my mental health.


----------



## LisaDiane

Laurentium said:


> My position on the original question is roughly as in this article: https://www.martyklein.com/is-watching-porn-a-form-of-infidelity/
> 
> So what should happen in a marriage when one partner doesn't feel the desire for sex? I've been in that situation, with a wife who didn't want sex. (And by the way, men sometimes lose desire too). First thing to say, it's rarely a conscious decision by the LDP (low desire partner). It's not (usually) like they just decided to hurt their partner. If this was the case, that needs looking into.
> 
> In my case, my wife was an intelligent and kind person, who clearly wasn't doing it to hurt me. And the last thing I would have wanted would be to persuade her to have sex that she would have hated. What I wanted to hear from her was, basically, _"I regret this, and I'll do everything I can to find out why it's happening and fix it -- but no promises_". That "do everything" would have included medical investigation of hormone levels, and counselling. Her response was pretty lukewarm; it seemed she not only didn't want sex, but also didn't really want to want sex. I pointed out to her that this was a huge change from the person she had been, and didn't that make her curious?
> 
> In the end, she invited me to end the marriage, and I did. There are no bad feelings on either side, as far as I'm aware. And as far as I know (which I quite likely would, as we live in the same neighbourhood) she's not with anyone else. Given that she's an excellent problem-solving person, I'm puzzled that she'd rather end the marriage than try to figure out what was happening, but that's life.


How long were you married?


----------



## Evinrude58

DownButNotOut said:


> Yes I have. Years of pain, and loss of self worth. Years of trying every advice column, every self help book, every statement, hint, or suggestion she made. That's the insidious thing, there's always that hope hanging there that this next thing will be a fix. And men are wired for see-problem-fix-problem. So she can keep the status quo indefinitely by dangling that carrot of "if you'd just do/be like X I'd feel like more sex". I'd probably still be there, suffering, if I hadn't found her hidden credit card debt to the tune of $60k.
> 
> In the end I left as a shell of the man I was in the beginning. She got my house (paid for in full with my family inheritance). I got every penny of that debt, and a nice alimony bill until retirement. But now I'm feeling much more like my old self, and can see what those sexless years did to my mental health.


Damn. I’m sorry and happy for you at the same time.


----------



## Laurentium

LisaDiane said:


> How long were you married?


Seven years


----------



## Divinely Favored

Personal said:


> Although I don't share your opinion that a sexless marriage is abuse at all (I mean really get a grip!), since if someone doesn't like being in a sexless marriage their are multiple ways to fix that. I do concur that no-one male or female should be surprised that their spouse will meet sexual shortfalls elsewhere if they don't share sex with them.
> 
> Likewise I also think pornography and masturbation for anyone is perfectly fine and is dandy when combined. Since the creation and viewing of pornography is a normal and natural human behaviour, which has been with us ever since we have been able to draw, carve and sculpt. While masturbation is simply inherent in us as primates.
> 
> It is also worth noting that no one in their right mind should believe that they are owed sexual fidelity, in a nominally monogamous sexual relationship from their sexual partner. If they withhold sharing sex with them frequently, for the most part or interminably going forward.
> 
> That said what baffles me is why anyone settles for choosing to masturbate with or without pornography, as an alternative to simply sharing sex with other people in real life, when faced with a sexual partner (in a supposedly monogamous sexual relationship) who has unilaterally turned the sex tap off.
> 
> One thing for sure while ever I am still physically able, if I ever find myself with a sexual partner who often, mostly or always withholds sharing sex with me. I will have no hesitation in having my sexual desires satiated with others. Whether I choose to remain with the withholding partner or otherwise.
> 
> Oh and it's also worth noting, there would be far less sexless marriages. If most men and women (because lots of men withhold sex as well) when faced with withholding sexual partners, immediately divorced their frigid behinds immediately upon such behaviour becoming apparent.
> 
> Which goes back to the nonsensical idea that a sexless marriage is abuse. If you don't like being in a sexless marriage, do something about it. Otherwise have some integrity and be honest, by owning your own voluntary choice of choosing to stay in a sexless marriage.


It is mental abuse in the same way if a spouse refuses to speak to a spouse(silent treatment) for extended lengths of time. Or even talks badly and degrading to them....because refusing your spouse speaks volumes.


----------



## jonty30

Laurentium said:


> My position on the original question is roughly as in this article: https://www.martyklein.com/is-watching-porn-a-form-of-infidelity/
> 
> So what should happen in a marriage when one partner doesn't feel the desire for sex? I've been in that situation, with a wife who didn't want sex. (And by the way, men sometimes lose desire too). First thing to say, it's rarely a conscious decision by the LDP (low desire partner). It's not (usually) like they just decided to hurt their partner. If this was the case, that needs looking into.
> 
> In my case, my wife was an intelligent and kind person, who clearly wasn't doing it to hurt me. And the last thing I would have wanted would be to persuade her to have sex that she would have hated. What I wanted to hear from her was, basically, _"I regret this, and I'll do everything I can to find out why it's happening and fix it -- but no promises_". That "do everything" would have included medical investigation of hormone levels, and counselling. Her response was pretty lukewarm; it seemed she not only didn't want sex, but also didn't really want to want sex. I pointed out to her that this was a huge change from the person she had been, and didn't that make her curious?
> 
> In the end, she invited me to end the marriage, and I did. There are no bad feelings on either side, as far as I'm aware. And as far as I know (which I quite likely would, as we live in the same neighbourhood) she's not with anyone else. Given that she's an excellent problem-solving person, I'm puzzled that she'd rather end the marriage than try to figure out what was happening, but that's life.


Judging from the board, many of the women are not really LD for themselves, just for their husband. They are content with their toys or eventually stepping out surreptitiously.


----------



## Personal

Divinely Favored said:


> It is mental abuse in the same way if a spouse refuses to speak to a spouse(silent treatment) for extended lengths of time. Or even talks badly and degrading to them....because refusing your spouse speaks volumes.


Mental abuse! 🤣🤣🤣

I don't know about you, but if my spouse refuses to speak to me for extended lengths of time (silent treatment). I would just tell her to "grow up". Likewise if she started talking badly towards me or even degraded me (not sure how she could degrade me unless I let her) without reasonable cause, I would simply tell her to "**** off".

That said if she didn't stop such nonsense or was inclined to behave that way frequently, she would quickly find herself divorced. Since life is too short, to waste any time on that kind of stupidity. Plus I'm also not the kind of person who revels in playing the victim either, so nope.

Yet make no mistake, you and I are not allowed by law to have sex with our spouses without their consent, to do otherwise is to rape them. So (fortunately) neither of us are entitled to have sex with our spouses, just because we are married to them.

Of which it isn't abuse for a marital partner to refuse to share sex with their spouse. That said if someone finds themselves in a sexless marriage and don't like it, there is nothing stopping them (except themselves) from terminating that sexless marriage to find other partners.

Not being able to share sex with ones wife whenever they want, doesn't actually make someone a victim of abuse.

For gorsake get a grip that man.


----------



## jonty30

Personal said:


> Mental abuse! 🤣🤣🤣
> 
> I don't know about you, but if my spouse refuses to speak to me for extended lengths of time (silent treatment). I would just tell her to "grow up". Likewise if she started talking badly towards me or even degraded me (not sure how she could degrade me unless I let her) without reasonable cause, I would simply tell her to "**** off".
> 
> That said if she didn't stop such nonsense or was inclined to behave that way frequently, she would quickly find herself divorced. Since life is too short, to waste any time on that kind of stupidity. Plus I'm also not the kind of person who revels in playing the victim either, so nope.
> 
> Yet make no mistake, you and I are not allowed by law to have sex with our spouses without their consent, to do otherwise is to rape them. So (fortunately) neither of us are entitled to have sex with our spouses, just because we are married to them.
> 
> Of which it isn't abuse for a marital partner to refuse to share sex with their spouse. That said if someone finds themselves in a sexless marriage and don't like it, there is nothing stopping them (except themselves) from terminating that sexless marriage to find other partners.
> 
> Not being able to share sex with ones wife whenever they want, doesn't actually make someone a victim of abuse.
> 
> For gorsake get a grip that man.


I'd probably enjoy the quietness and read a book or watch tv. 

I dont really notice silent treatments.


----------



## 346745

Confusedaf29 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 11 years. We have had ups and downs like any other relationship. Since our first child together was born 10 years ago our sex life went in the tank (im lucky if we have sex more than 5 times a year). I don't cheat but I had started watching porn because well I have a high sex drive and she's just never in to it for various reasons the kids her own insecurities depression (that she refuses to get help for) and i still want it. I don't do strip clubs or anything else I just watch porn and handle things myself. She says that I've destroyed her and it's cheating to watch porn. BUT SHE DOSENT WANT TO HAVE SEX!?!? I'm really confused she says it only makes her insecurities worse and makes her feel like *** and makes her depression worse and I'm not sure what to do about that. I partly feel like your insecurities and depression are issues that you have to fix and those are your responsibility to address not mine. I also feel like porn isn't cheating its keeping me from cheating or leaving. I still try to have sex with her but it's always some reason it can't happen and I'm just burnt out. I feel like how much longer should I have to wait for this ***? It sucks I know I could leave and have my way im approached by women often and I don't entertain it because I'm married I don't want to leave because I do care and the other parts of the marrige are good and also the financial toll it would take (im the sole provider) im just spinning wheels here!! Not sure what can help..


Watching porn is not cheating. Sleeping with someone else is. Would she rather you do that? What's the harm in a guy watching porn if his wife refuses him in the bedroom?


----------



## jonty30

Longtime Hubby said:


> Watching porn is not cheating. Sleeping with someone else is. Would she rather you do that? What's the harm in a guy watching porn if his wife refuses him in the bedroom?


She'd rather have a Benedictine Monk,


----------



## aaarghdub

OPs wife is gaslighting him and blaming shifting. He has needs, she has in essence outsourced and disaffirmed his sexuality and is now shaming him for it. Porn is a red herring. She took his eye and desire for her for granted and this is the consequence. She left him with no outlet and in an impossible position. Say he stops porn but continues to take care of himself, he’s gonna think about the porn he’s watched. She’s gonna lambast him for cheating on her in his thoughts?

It’s one thing to admit your have different libidos and you let your partner take care of themselves but to limit that is a little over the line. Like it said earlier most would rather have sex with the spouse but they aren’t interested or turned asexual. It is a control thing.

Honestly he needs to hold her up to the same standard and tell her what porn she can’t watch: HGTV, vacation shows, rom-coms, etc. My wife would be livid if I said she could only talk to me and then I talked to her for 5 minutes a month. She would explode inside. No girlfriends or family. Would I be justified to tell her she couldn’t read TAM or Reddit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Talker67

Personal said:


> This may surprise you, but being married to someone in Western civilisation does not entitle you to have sex with them whenever, at all or how often you like. Given that legal reality, it is not abusive for a person to choose not to have sex with their spouse.
> 
> At the end of the day if reality does not actually conform with your beliefs, the sensible thing would be for you to adjust your beliefs.


or kick her butt to the curb and divorce her.
PLENTY of women are out there that actually DO enjoy sex, and feel they need to give it to their man very often


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## Personal

Talker67 said:


> or kick her butt to the curb and divorce her.


I don’t understand why there are some people who don’t do that, when faced with a sexless or limited sex marriage.


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## Talker67

Personal said:


> I don’t understand why there are some people who don’t do that, when faced with a sexless or limited sex marriage.


beats me too. i would give them a week or two to change their tune, then its out the frigin door with them


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## Gigixo

Are you meeting her needs emotionally? Do you do anything romantic for her without expecting anything in return? Do you help her around the house and with the children without her needing to ask? Are you connecting intimately with her outside of sex? Do you desire _her_ when you want to have sex, or is she just a ‘tool’ that gives a pleasurable outcome. 

Women engage with sex very differently and most of the foreplay happens outside of the bedroom. The truth is if you left her, I’m 100% certain she would have that desire again to have sex with someone else, just not you, she isn’t broken, there’s just a need of hers that isn’t being met by you. Get your head out of your ass and off pornhub and figure out what she needs.


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## Talker67

Gigixo said:


> Are you meeting her needs emotionally? Do you do anything romantic for her without expecting anything in return? Do you help her around the house and with the children without her needing to ask? Are you connecting intimately with her outside of sex? Do you desire _her_ when you want to have sex, or is she just a ‘tool’ that gives a pleasurable outcome.
> 
> Women engage with sex very differently and most of the foreplay happens outside of the bedroom. The truth is if you left her, I’m 100% certain she would have that desire again to have sex with someone else, just not you, she isn’t broken, there’s just a need of hers that isn’t being met by you. Get your head out of your ass and off pornhub and figure out what she needs.


it is possible he is exactly meeting her sexual needs. she is dominating him, denying him sex in any form, and humiliating him at every turn. she is into being a femdom....abusing his masculinity. She gets a sexual thrill from causing him this pain.

She probably masturbates frequently, just not with him in the room


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## Divinely Favored

Longtime Hubby said:


> Watching porn is not cheating. Sleeping with someone else is. Would she rather you do that? What's the harm in a guy watching porn if his wife refuses him in the bedroom?


Fantasizing about sex with the pornstar is adultry per tge Bible and if my wife wanted to fantasize abour other men or women then she would find herself free from our marriage to do so.


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## 346745

Divinely Favored said:


> Fantasizing about sex with the pornstar is adultry per tge Bible and if my wife wanted to fantasize abour other men or women then she would find herself free from our marriage to do so.


Well, then according to that, everyone in the world has committed adultery because I'm sure they have at least once had sexual thoughts about someone. Hey, we're only human.


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## Divinely Favored

Longtime Hubby said:


> Well, then according to that, everyone in the world has committed adultery because I'm sure they have at least once had sexual thoughts about someone. Hey, we're only human.


Not while with your SO.


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## 346745

Divinely Favored said:


> Not while with your SO.


so you never ever look at another person and think you'd like to be with them?


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## Evinrude58

Divinely Favored said:


> Not while with your SO.


Ha! I don’t believe that. But a agree that porn is wrong, def a form of adultery in ones heart, and bad for marriage as a whole. It’s a far lower level than actual cheating with a real person though in my opinion, but probably can be a factor in tempting a person to do so.


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## SunCMars

Laurentium said:


> My position on the original question is roughly as in this article: https://www.martyklein.com/is-watching-porn-a-form-of-infidelity/
> 
> So what should happen in a marriage when one partner doesn't feel the desire for sex? I've been in that situation, with a wife who didn't want sex. (And by the way, men sometimes lose desire too). First thing to say, it's rarely a conscious decision by the LDP (low desire partner). It's not (usually) like they just decided to hurt their partner. If this was the case, that needs looking into.
> 
> In my case, my wife was an intelligent and kind person, who clearly wasn't doing it to hurt me. And the last thing I would have wanted would be to persuade her to have sex that she would have hated. What I wanted to hear from her was, basically, _"I regret this, and I'll do everything I can to find out why it's happening and fix it -- but no promises_". That "do everything" would have included medical investigation of hormone levels, and counselling. Her response was pretty lukewarm; it seemed she not only didn't want sex, but also didn't really want to want sex. I pointed out to her that this was a huge change from the person she had been, and didn't that make her curious?
> 
> In the end, she invited me to end the marriage, and I did. There are no bad feelings on either side, as far as I'm aware. And as far as I know (which I quite likely would, as we live in the same neighbourhood) she's not with anyone else. Given that she's an excellent problem-solving person, I'm puzzled that she'd rather end the marriage than try to figure out what was happening, but that's life.


A TJ ?

I must, I have to, I do love your take, and this post.

I have to cringe, knowing this to be factual.

Rather than be intimate with you, she chose to be estranged.
Separated permanently from you, her long term husband, but, also from all men, it seems (no dating).

She likely feels that all men are not worthy of her intimacy. 
_She acts the secret man-hater._

This cannot be all hormonal and/or chemical.
It likely is equally psychological.
Life has scarred her.

Note: this is certainly her right.

In most peoples mind, it is certainly a tragic ending for her.
To abhor another's touch is to ignore our biology.
What an odd thing to give up, that human to human contact.

I understand, in the case of past abuse (from men) this would be a logical, and a proper response.
This is not the case with your wife's situation, as she changed from her early self.

I think she holds some grudges, resentments, bitterness, and is stubborn to a fault.
Again, her choice, again....so sad.

Choices may seem freely gotten to, but they bind you to them and their far reaching consequences.

Many people are born congruous and have warmth and comity.

It would be easy to say your wife is somewhat on-the-spectrum, and made sexless, later in life, in the absence of hormones.

This is becoming the _go-to answer_ for many of people who are cool to the touch.
I say, we are a diverse species and no one diagnosis is likely valid.

I also say that men were given penises and woman, vagina's for logical reasons.
I also say that logic and emotions do not readily mix.

Both these physical attributes are under the control of each participants mind.
In early years, the sexual organs have more say, with men more sway, in later years they (on average) do not impinge as much, on the mind.


_KB-_


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## SunCMars

On porn.....

What can be worse than watching others, those men, land on the head of their spear.
Watching those men get, what is never to be yours, never that, not close.

Seeing what is denied you, only makes it that much harder.
Harder, and never shared and jointly emptied from you.


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## Laurentium

SunCMars said:


> Rather than be intimate with you, she chose to be estranged.
> Separated permanently from you, her long term husband, but, also from all men, it seems (no dating).
> 
> She likely feels that all men are not worthy of her intimacy.
> _She acts the secret man-hater._
> 
> This cannot be all hormonal and/or chemical.
> It likely is equally psychological.
> Life has scarred her.
> 
> Note: this is certainly her right.
> 
> In most peoples mind, it is certainly a tragic ending for her.
> To abhor another's touch is to ignore our biology.
> What an odd thing to give up, that human to human contact.
> 
> I understand, in the case of past abuse (from men) this would be a logical, and a proper response.
> This is not the case with your wife's situation, as she changed from her early self.
> 
> I think she holds some grudges, resentments, bitterness, and is stubborn to a fault.
> Again, her choice, again....so sad.
> 
> Choices may seem freely gotten to, but they bind you to them and their far reaching consequences.
> 
> Many people are born congruous and have warmth and comity.
> 
> It would be easy to say your wife is somewhat on-the-spectrum, and made sexless, later in life, in the absence of hormones.
> 
> This is becoming the _go-to answer_ for many of people who are cool to the touch.
> I say, we are a diverse species and no one diagnosis is likely valid.
> 
> _KB-_


Very perceptive, your Highness.


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## Scullion

My wife is celibate I agreed this at marriage it's difficult I watch porn though it doesn't get any easier are celibate wives more bad-tempered does no sex do this


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## Laurentium

Scullion said:


> My wife is celibate I agreed this at marriage it's difficult I watch porn though it doesn't get any easier are celibate wives more bad-tempered does no sex do this


I think we have some questions....


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## Evinrude58

Scullion said:


> My wife is celibate I agreed this at marriage it's difficult I watch porn though it doesn't get any easier are celibate wives more bad-tempered does no sex do this


Start your own thread. I’d love to hear more about the attraction to a self declared celibate bride. Must give some darn good back rubs abd cook like Julia Childs.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Evinrude58 said:


> Start your own thread. I’d love to hear more about the attraction to a self declared celibate bride. Must give some darn good back rubs abd cook like Julia Childs.


Must have sisters that look like Raquel Welch that live with them and are not celibate you mean.


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## MattMatt

Zombie Cat says: "Oh. Dear. Another Zombie forum thread."

Apparently, according to Zombie Cat, Welsh for Zombie forum thread is "Edefyn fforwm Zombie."


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