# Pet Peeve



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Ok- this is a pet peeve of mine and I've recently seen alot of it.

OP comes and says H/W paying too much attention to someone. Lots of emails, texts, and calls. Whatever the communication the spouse is uncomfortable. OP says AP is giving lots of compliments "youre wonderful, smart, cute, funny...." 

And so it begins with the influx of posters asking the OP "when is the last time you said those things to your spouse" or "step up communicatioin with them. send flirty texts and emails." You know basically saying COMPETE WITH AP!!!

Well that just doesnt work!!!!! *As long as there IS an AP the spouse could stand on their head and whistle dixie to get the attention of the WS and it would have little to NO effect because WS is in the fog and AP is wonderful. *The most intelligent person they've EVER met....The AP just 'gets them' unlike their shrew of a wife or husband who just doesnt share their passions in life or whatever......ITs called rewriting marital history!!!

When OP's come and they are given the "nice" them out of the affair advice- IT SETS ME ON FIRE! to say the least. Its ineffective and wasting time that the WS is spending getting more and more involved with AP. THE very first order of business must be NC!!!!! Then working on getting to the root 'cause' of the affair. No amount of 'NICE' will pull their heads out of their arses.

Why do people give newbies this kind of advice?????? AAAAHHHHHHHH!

What do you guys think??? Can you 'Nice' your WS out of infatuation??????


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

Being nice is absolutely not an option. The first thing that has to happen is the affair being destroyed. That cannot be done nicely. Then the relationship can be worked on if the plan is to try and reconcile.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

This is one of those times when "nice guys finish last" for sure. 

Lets be clear-THIS is a fight for YOUR marriage. If they are involved in an affair-the fog has taken over and logical thinking on their part is not gonna happen. If they were capable of thinking of or seeing you, the spouse, the affair wouldnt be taking place in the first place. Affairs are selfish. Its all about getting waywards 'needs and/or wants' met. You as the spouse are their LAST thought. It's sad but oh so true. Afterall, THIS isnt your spouse, this is your spouse in an affair- TWO VERY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> This is one of those times when "nice guys finish last" for sure.
> 
> Lets be clear-THIS is a fight for YOUR marriage. If they are involved in an affair-the fog has taken over and logical thinking on their part is not gonna happen. If they were capable of thinking of or seeing you, the spouse, the affair wouldnt be taking place in the first place. Affairs are selfish. Its all about getting waywards 'needs and/or wants' met. You as the spouse are their LAST thought. It's sad but oh so true. Afterall, THIS isnt your spouse, this is your spouse in an affair- TWO VERY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.


That's why you attack the affair because it's a beast all to on itself.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 said:


> That's why you attack the affair because it's a beast all to on itself.


Couldnt agree more b/c while the affair exist- there is only a shell of a marriage.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Not at all. I will be honest. In my EA, I felt my husband was CLINGY, constantly hovering. That particular action, I felt was a HUGE turn off. Giving that advice to someone...I see it as similar to rug sweeping. "Oh, it's ok honey, I love you anyway...." Bullsh!t. It's not ok. You put your foot down and give the choice...get rid of the AP or GTFO!


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I don't see where anyone is giving advice to "compete" with the AP as the only advice.

I agree with trying to end the affair but at the same time there is nothing wrong with a BS that may not be paying attention (and once did) to the wayward re-start some more attention - showing more love, kindness & interest. IMHO it is just another tool in the Bs's arsenal to STOP the affair & get them out of the fog which yes, includes NC.

If I were having an affair, I would be more RECEPTIVE to ending it with my "wonderful, fantastic, perfect" AP & come crawling back to my "nice, kind" H then back to my "mean, nasty, horrible" H.

All the above assumes R is the goal.

Just saying.................


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Emerald said:


> I don't see where anyone is giving advice to "compete" with the AP as the only advice.
> 
> I agree with trying to end the affair but at the same time there is nothing wrong with a BS that may not be paying attention (and once did) to the wayward re-start some more attention - showing more love, kindness & interest. IMHO it is just another tool in the Bs's arsenal to STOP the affair & get them out of the fog which yes, includes NC.
> 
> ...


IF you were having an affair you'd have your head so far up your a$$ that you wouldnt care how "nice,kind and wonderful" your spouse was. An affair is a fantasy. Impossible to compete with. That AP will always be funnier, smarter, prettier and understand you better b/c you are in the fog. 

No one is saying be nasty or mean or horrible. What I am saying and others is that You cant be nice enough to compete with rainbows and puppydog land. because you live in REALITY.

Love kindness and interest were ALREADY being shown to my H when he STARTED his EA. Affairs arent about the BS, they are about the WS. Thats why they say affairs are selfish. They are all about them and AP. They barely notice youre alive. True story.

Nice doesnt work. I tried nice for months as have MANY MANY other posters on this board only to find the WS had gone underground because there were NO consequences. I mean wow, your spouse has an affair and it makes you-the BS-NICER????? What a reward. Now they have a spouse kissing their ass and an AP kissing their Ass- BINGO!!!!!

Why would they EVER stop?


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> And so it begins with the influx of posters asking the OP "when is the last time you said those things to your spouse" or "step up communicatioin with them. send flirty texts and emails." You know basically saying COMPETE WITH AP!!!
> 
> Well that just doesnt work!!!!! *As long as there IS an AP the spouse could stand on their head and whistle dixie to get the attention of the WS and it would have little to NO effect because WS is in the fog and AP is wonderful. *The most intelligent person they've EVER met....The AP just 'gets them' unlike their shrew of a wife or husband who just doesnt share their passions in life or whatever......ITs called rewriting marital history!!!


:iagree:

The fog is so deep in an affair that the WS will ignore all attention by the BS. I will only advise this if they are following the marriage builders program by Harvey. Plan A (act nice to the WS) and Plan B (go dark on the spouse so the last thing they remember of you is that you are nice).

I will say, however. With my husband's EA, I cooked him dinner, I complimented him. He increased the text and the skype conversations because he felt guilty over his renewed feelings for me. A person can not compete with an affair.

It's why I almost always tell them to expose the affair. Let the affair die from the exposure. Pick up the shattered WS (if they express remorse). However, do not be nice until they show they earned it. Never be nice.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

The point, Emerald, is that there is *NO* competing with the AP. None. The AP goes. Plain and simple. Yes, show affection, at some point. But there is no way the cheater can expect the betrayed spouse to be all lovey-dovey when they just had their heart ripped out by the one person who vowed to stand by them...come what may. It takes time to get that affection back. And, quite often, the cheater views such actions as WEAK in the beginning. They view it as "look what I got away with! What can I get away with next??" By not getting rid of the AP in ALL forms of communication, the betrayed is, essentially, allowing the affair to continue...saying it is ok, when it is not.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Emerald said:


> I don't see where anyone is giving advice to "compete" with the AP as the only advice.
> 
> I agree with trying to end the affair but at the same time there is nothing wrong with a BS that may not be paying attention (and once did) to the wayward re-start some more attention - showing more love, kindness & interest. IMHO it is just another tool in the Bs's arsenal to STOP the affair & get them out of the fog which yes, includes NC.
> 
> ...


Emerald- Ever read Not Just friends??? by Shirley Glass?

In the book it talks about *Walls* and *Windows*. While a person is having an affair they* build a wall to their spouse and a window to the AP.* So anything the spouse does just bounces off the wall. The only thing getting thru to the WS is coming in thru the windows to the AP. WS never has windows to AP AND the BS. In order to function, to perpetuate the lie, he builds the wall to his spouse. THerefore, NO amount of NICE is gonna do anything because he doesnt have the *ability* to even see it.

Also, if the WS isnt willing to accept accountabiliy for what they have done to the marriage and accept the fallout from the BS-take the heat so to speak- then they arent truly remorseful. They WILL do it again.

*"If I were having an affair, I would be more RECEPTIVE to ending it with my "wonderful, fantastic, perfect" AP & come crawling back to my "nice, kind" H then back" *

Youre basically saying "I know Im cheating on you and IF youre nice enough I might come back..." Bullsh*T!!!! This is the attitude of an unremorseful WS. How on earth do you expect your BS to be Nice? The 'B' stands for BETRAYED.

Heres my reply to that "IF you get rid of that skank, I might take you back and its gonna be a long haul. I love you but I dont like what youve done and there is a price to be paid for both of us. In NO way will I ever tolerate this behavior EVER again. Know that. Now what can WE do to fix this together. JUST YOU AND ME. Any 3rd parties is an automatic deal breaker from here on. Lets get to the bottom of what caused this and move forward"


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

People who refuse to expose their claws and eliminate the rival are usually run over by the time they realize that the spouse can say 1000 "you look nice" to compete with one such line by the AP when the affair has already bloomed.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

costa200 said:


> People who refuse to expose their claws and eliminate the rival are usually run over by the time they realize that the spouse can say 1000 "you look nice" to compete with one such line by the AP when the affair has already bloomed.


Exactly. Walls and windows. you got it exactly right, Costa.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

*waves white flag*

Apologies to OP & others.


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## Astonefeather (Jan 1, 2010)

I tried this for awhile. I was extra generous in every way for weeks trying to make him realize how good he had it being with me. He liked the extra attention and effort, but it didn't change a thing.

Plus, I had no intention of living the rest of my life being Donna Reed so it wasn't a realistic thing to try. I had hoped I could inspire him, but he just continued to take from me and give the OW all his attention.

The difference between my efforts and the OW was that I was open and honest with my wants, needs, hopes and dreams for our marriage. She was cunning, dramatic and manipulative. Her ability to make him the hero in her life won out over the mundane existence he had at home. He was my hero too, but I came with responsibilities, bills, taking out the garbage, etc. She was just more flashy and I wasn't willing/able to play mind games with him. He needed to want me for me. He didn't. So I left.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Be nice? No way! Firm, adamant, no toleration of BS (not betrayed spouse),factual, with control, snapping them out of the fog pulling them to reality, remorse and R. Sounds easy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

can you show me an example of a thread that has this in it?


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Isn't that the MB method or one of Dr.Harleys things is to be nice to the ww for a bit to show 
Them what they are gonna be missing or something along those lines then they do something similar
To the 180 ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

bkaydezz said:


> can you show me an example of a thread that has this in it?


yes. Look at "My husband is mentoring a young woman" or something like that......some posters keep saying to 'nice' him into reality......

Husband mentoring a young girl is the thread


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> Isn't that the MB method or one of Dr.Harleys things is to be nice to the ww for a bit to show
> Them what they are gonna be missing or something along those lines then they do something similar
> To the 180 ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yes. Basically the AP kisses their a$$ and so does BS. They have their cake and eat it too. Why would a WS EVER stop the affair when they have both people fawning all over them???? That just doesnt work. They lose even MORE respect for BS. See you as weak.


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## Greg40 (Aug 11, 2012)

Great thread.

I'm in this situation right now and I don't want to be nice. It's a confusing reality becasuse we're at the begining of an R.

But TBH, I'm not feeling it right now, so I'm not really doing anything beyond what I want to do.

It's not full on nasty, its certainly not nice. But I'm fvcked if I'm going to compete with WW's foggy headed fantasy.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Greg40 said:


> Great thread.
> 
> I'm in this situation right now and I don't want to be nice. It's a confusing reality becasuse we're at the begining of an R.
> 
> ...


So has WW gone NC?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I don't understand why anyone who is being cheated on would even WANT to be nice to their spouse. Kick their ass to the curb.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I don't understand why anyone who is being cheated on would even WANT to be nice to their spouse. Kick their ass to the curb.


Until AP is NC- absolutely!!!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> Isn't that the MB method or one of Dr.Harleys things is to be nice to the ww for a bit to show
> Them what they are gonna be missing or something along those lines then they do something similar
> To the 180 ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sort of. Dr. Harley recommends that you confront the WS with your proof of the affair and demand that they go NC and engage in a plan of recovery with you. For some people, that actually works. For everyone else, he recommends Plan A followed by Plan B.

His Plan A recommends that you take a few days/weeks and make a real effort to meet your WS's emotional needs in whatever ways you can manage. He doesn't recommend you do this for long, or that you do anything that you just really don't want to do. Expose the affair to any and everyone and ask for their help in encouraging the WS to return to the marriage. Be a fabulous catch, while at the same time exposing the affair and reminding your WS that they are choosing to destroy their family and that the affair needs to end if they want you to keep meeting their needs. At the end of whatever Plan A time you have set for yourself, if WS isn't yet in NC and on board with R, you go immediately to Plan B.

Plan B involves you going NC with your WS. You go dark on them. As in, move out or change the locks, cancel any services that are billed in your name that they might be enjoying, and block their calls/emails/texts. You can set up an intermediary to handle any issues related to the children that require communication. You should send them a Plan B letter letting them know what's going on, what they would need to verifiably do in order for you to attempt R with them. If they don't get their act together and meet your conditions, you stay dark and proceed to divorce after a set amount of time. 

He suggests you use Plan A as a time to gather yourself for Plan B. Basically, be a good spouse while you make whatever plans you need to arrange for having the locks changed, the WS's cell phone disconnected, get your financial situation straight, make arrangements for a legal separation if you need interim child support, set up your intermediary, etc. Plan A is so they know you're willing to have a good marriage if they stop the affair, to give added shock value to you going dark after being so reasonable, and to give you a relatively drama-free period to get your ducks in a row if they won't give up the affair.

If the affair is a deal-breaker and you don't want to R, of course, you skip the confrontation and Plan A and just divorce.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Ok- this is a pet peeve of mine and I've recently seen alot of it.
> 
> OP comes and says H/W paying too much attention to someone. Lots of emails, texts, and calls. Whatever the communication the spouse is uncomfortable. OP says AP is giving lots of compliments "youre wonderful, smart, cute, funny...."
> 
> ...


Excellent point, Cantrusthim:

I actually had one male marriage counselor tell me that. 

I felt as you do, why should I compete for my spouse with the OW. 

He had stopped the affair but was still occassionally running into her and stopping to talk and still sharing details of our lives with this unstable stalker women. 

It's a no win situation. It's no contact all the way and in every way or file for divorce and move on.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> IF you were having an affair you'd have your head so far up your a$$ that you wouldnt care how "nice,kind and wonderful" your spouse was. An affair is a fantasy. Impossible to compete with. That AP will always be funnier, smarter, prettier and understand you better b/c you are in the fog.
> 
> No one is saying be nasty or mean or horrible. What I am saying and others is that You cant be nice enough to compete with rainbows and puppydog land. because you live in REALITY.
> 
> ...



Agreed, Cantrusthim:

Despite the image of the BS being a ***** or a beta or whiny or clingy, many experienced marriage counselors disagree. 

Even Shriley glass says the BS is usually giving more and the cheaters are taking more. There are of course always exceptions. 

But in my situation all the things my STBEH bragged about with me suddenly became things he hated, while in his affair. 

Sadly this had happend several times prior in our marriage and I always attributed to stress. Now I realize he was likely in another affair. 

His attitude changed always lasted about six months. 

But, yep, I am really tired of hearing about all the faults of the BS. 

Maybe the cheater just has unrealisitic expectations of a marriage and is simply selfish and self absorbed. 

I experience the marital ups and downs, too, and didn't cheat. 

Particularly the moody downs exhibited while in his affairs. 

I likely had more reason to cheat than he did. I didn't cheat.

And you're right being nice to the cheater is simply rewarding him and feeds his ego more.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> I believe it is. There is also a statement in Harley's book about how men "need " good looking spouses and guilt tripping ( subtly ) the female if she gets fat or isn't " attractive" to him. Being nice doesn't work and neither does feeding into the idea that objectifying a woman on the basis of her appearance is a legitimate thing for a male to do in order to try to justify cheating. That is why I don't recommend this book to anyone. An attractive spouse is not a "need" it's an entitlement, and feeling entitled is the basic reason for most EA/AP's.


I agree with Oaksthorne's post.

By all accounts from all who knew of the affair I was more attractive than my STBEH's younger affair partner. 

I came from a large family with a lot of brothers and no sisters and my brothers teased me mercifully as a child so I never believe I am attractive. 

The OW was plump and my STBEH hated plump. In one email she referred to herself as a prize catch. What an ego. 

My STBEH likes taut and athletic. I work part time as a fitness instructor for an upscale health club in exchange for a free club membership. One women came in to join the club and pointed at me and said, "I want to look like her"

So cheaters cheat because they are in love with themselves and can't love others unconditionally. If you're married for awhile, looks should not be the main criteria for staying faithful. I would still have loved my husband if he got fat or had ED. What a fool I was.

BTW: Dr. Harley is fat. I can tell by his headshot. 

I also worked in advertising and attended many fashion shoots as well as chose models for shoots. I know what attractive is. And, I know how to get my girl game on. 

Cheating is not about looks or the BS not trying hard enough. It's about the cheater's sense of entitlement.

My STBEH is trying to hold up the divorce and get back together. 

If I were so terrible why would he want that. The OW is now free of the husband she so disrespected. They can have each other. 

They deserve each other


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Similarly, I see posts where people echo the popular media's sentiment that husbands should help around the house if they want a happy marriage. This may be true to a small extent but it definitely doesn't prevent the wife from cheating. I was the maid for the greater part of our marriage and my wife still betrayed me.

Stupid me thought that I was doing the right thing by cleaning the house, cooking dinner, working 50 hours a week, doing yardwork, grocery shopping, and everything in between. The only thing these actions did was contribute to her sense of entitlement. 

Quoth the Count: Nevermore.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Similarly, I see posts where people echo the popular media's sentiment that husbands should help around the house if they want a happy marriage. This may be true to a small extent but it definitely doesn't prevent the wife from cheating. I was the maid for the greater part of our marriage and my wife still betrayed me.
> 
> Stupid me thought that I was doing the right thing by cleaning the house, cooking dinner, working 50 hours a week, doing yardwork, grocery shopping, and everything in between. The only thing these actions did was contribute to her sense of entitlement.
> 
> Quoth the Count: Nevermore.


Well all things in moderation. Btw, you were doing the right things. At least you had the right idea. She probably was just gonna be a cheater come what may, Count. Same as alot of WS' we see on here. No rhyme or reason- Just what they felt like doin'.

And its no different than saying If you give your Husband enough sex he wont cheat-NOT TRUE. We were having sex 4-5 times a week and still he had an EA. Maybe there's a correlation between lack of sex and PA? Not sure but doubtful. I think some people will just cheat b/c their self esteem is that low. B/c they need the ego stroke sooo much. Thats why my H did it. Im sure of that. We are working on that. That damned male ego, gggrrrrrr.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

That damned *fe*male ego, gggrrrrrr. :lol:


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> That damned *fe*male ego, gggrrrrrr. :lol:



:scratchhead: Why I do declare, I dont know what youre talkin' about sir....


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