# Marriage in crisis



## edwindc (Feb 24, 2013)

My wife and I have been together for 8 years, and married for 3 years (it will be 4 years on March 22nd). For the most part, I believe our marriage has mostly good times. However, my wife initiated the idea of marriage therapy in October of last year when she realized that my anger and temper were harming the marriage. I resisted initially, but when she gave an ultimatum, I decided to attend the marriage therapy. I believe the marriage therapy was going well (we attended 4 sessions, and we were communicating and understanding each other’s feelings better) until the counselor decided that a 30 day time off period was recommended and during that time, we would seek individual therapy. After the 30 days, we would reconvene and discuss where we were. I was against the idea because my contention was that the purpose of marriage therapy was to explore and understand the negative behaviors affecting the marriage together, not separately, given the situation and in doing so, learn new ways to communicate better with one another. Nonetheless, I nervously agreed to the 30 days’ time-off in respect of her wishes as long as she and I promised and were committed to getting back to marriage therapy after 30 days. Likewise, I did fulfill my obligation in seeking individual therapy (and I continue to do so). Since November 4th, my wife has not communicated with me other than a couple of emails and she refuses to attend marriage therapy after the 30 days as promised. She said she changed and that we are very different, and this has divided us. She also said her feelings have changed, and that the trust has been shattered; she referred to the “Humpty Dumpty” story, as she believes we cannot put the pieces back together again. I replied that I did not want to put the pieces back together again, as that would bring about the negative behaviors again; I suggested that marriage therapy would allow creating the trust once again with healthy behaviors. She still refused to attend marriage therapy or talk to me despite my attempts to persuade her otherwise. 

The lack of communication has been going on for 3 months now. We are also separated. I feel it is not fair for her to not communicate with me and completely ignore me. I feel these actions are a form of discounting, and it truly hurts deeply. I hope that was not her purpose. 

Likewise, I am in an anxious predicament, and I am having much difficulty understanding how my wife went through such an abrupt change because she refuses to communicate; The idea that the marriage counselor proposed of only seeking individual therapy was a bad idea, and a recipe for disaster in my opinion, and I feel this was a factor leading to the lack of communication and the marital status we are in. Through my individual therapy sessions, based on Transactional Analysis techniques, I believe that change can be good for a marriage, and in fact, it can improve the quality of marriage; for that to occur, I need to explore and understand her feelings and behavior. In addition, I have learned to control my temper and anger, and I have learned to be a better communicator of my feelings. I would like to apply what I have learned thus far in our marriage, however, my wife’s lack of communication is preventing that from happening. 

My last attempt at persuading her to attend marriage therapy with a new marriage therapist occurred this past week. She wrote me an email stating she will be not attending our scheduled meeting, noting that I should respect her wishes, feelings, and that she and I are different. I replied that have respected her wish for space for this long, and I replied that because of that she should respect my wishes and attend the scheduled meeting. She also stated that I know how she feels, but honestly, I don’t know how she feels because she has not talked to me in a long time. I know she doesn’t want to see me, and I can accept that. I desire to start having discussions with her, even if a mediator is needed. 

I would like to find out what my options are, because at this point, I feel that I have done all I can – attempting to communicate with her, giving insight on my individual therapy sessions, and desiring to show her the tremendous behavioral changes I have applied in my life and our marriage. My only desire is to save our marriage. I truly believe it can be saved if she would only begin communicating with me.

Thank you


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I don;t know man, sometimes a chick will bail on there man once that said man has been replaced.

I'm just saying your old lady may have already replaced you and there is no way in hell you can compete with a new boy friend!

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm sure u checked your lady out and made sure there wasn't some other influence in why she wants to bail on the marriage now.

You did look into her screwing around right? And don't tell me you asked her!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

From what I'm seeing the two of you went to MC and then seperation was suggested and now the her boyfriends was told that she has seperated from her husband , he now has made a commitment to your wife....making you her plan B.

It phucked up cuz if your old lady would have stayed together the boy friend might have bailed, in stead it reenforce the affair.

Sorry brother for looking out side the box but why want to go to MC and then change her tune and bail all together enless the other dude made a commitment to your wife?

Again, take the time to prove me wrong, investigate for you self and either confirm or deny the possiblity of some other guy taking your place.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

BTW, who the phuck recomends a 30 day time out period for a fragile marriage?
One can never work on repairing a marriage by taking a time out. It just give the other spouse time to screw around with out guilt!


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

edwindc said:


> I would like to find out what my options are, because at this point, I feel that I have done all I can – attempting to communicate with her, giving insight on my individual therapy sessions, and desiring to show her the tremendous behavioral changes I have applied in my life and our marriage. My only desire is to save our marriage. I truly believe it can be saved if she would only begin communicating with me.
> 
> Thank you


You've let her know how you feel. That's good. But she's not changing her mind, so there's nothing more you can do but back off and continue to give her space. The more you chase her, the faster and harder she's going to run away.

There may be another man involved. It's going to be hard to figure that out now that you're physically separated and she's not communicating, but when someone changes that abruptly, it's the first place to look. Before you started counseling and separated, what was she like? Did she have a lot of girl's nights? Paying more attention to her appearance when she went out? Any increase in her phone/computer activity (texts/calls/facebooking)? Did she suddenly become very guarded with her phone, never letting it out of her sight? There are a lot of possible red flags that you may have missed. Or maybe she didn't have an OM at the time, but met someone during the separation period.

Or she may just think that it's not worth putting in the work, and she wants to see what else is out there - i.e. "grass is greener". She'll probably find out that this isn't true, but she has to figure that out on her own. Usually once a walk-away wife's mind is made up, it's done. You're never going to talk her out of this, and being continually rejected by her as you try is only prolonging your pain.

Implement the 180, and detach yourself from her. Stop initiating communication with her, and do not talk about your relationship unless she wants to. Otherwise keep communication related to business matters or children (if you have any). When you're talking to her, always appear happy and upbeat, as if you're absolutely okay with her decision. Never show her any anger, if she baits you into an argument, walk away. Don't just tell her you've changed; show her.

This is mainly for you - to help you prepare mentally and emotionally for a life without her. Because at this point, that's the most likely outcome. But a possible side effect is that you will make her curious - why is he suddenly so cool and calm about all of this? What is he up to? Is he seeing someone else? Why isn't he chasing after me anymore? This may be enough to bring her back around, or it may not. But it's the only shot you have - right now your wife senses your desperation, and that's unattractive to any woman.


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## edwindc (Feb 24, 2013)

rsersen said:


> You've let her know how you feel. That's good. But she's not changing her mind, so there's nothing more you can do but back off and continue to give her space. The more you chase her, the faster and harder she's going to run away.
> 
> There may be another man involved. It's going to be hard to figure that out now that you're physically separated and she's not communicating, but when someone changes that abruptly, it's the first place to look. Before you started counseling and separated, what was she like? Did she have a lot of girl's nights? Paying more attention to her appearance when she went out? Any increase in her phone/computer activity (texts/calls/facebooking)? Did she suddenly become very guarded with her phone, never letting it out of her sight? There are a lot of possible red flags that you may have missed. Or maybe she didn't have an OM at the time, but met someone during the separation period.


Before we started counseling, she was kind and nurturing, but at the same time, she was very focused on her studies (she went back to school and is studying biochemistry). I was supportive of her going to school, as she was supportive of me while I spent 6.5 months preparing for my CPA examination years ago. 
We also started going to the gym together and eating more healthy. It was my idea to start exercising. So far, she has lost 40 pounds, and I have lost about 20. Her facebook activity did increase, but in my mind that was natural as she was going to school and meeting new friends is expected. The amount of friends she accepted on facebook was approximately an equal amount of girls and boys. 

Although I am not certain, I don't believe there is another man in the picture. Her studies, even with me out of the picture, I believe will not allow her to see another man. Also, the men at school are boys, and she is 1.5x their age. But again, I am not sure unless I ask her. 

Do you believe it is a good idea to call my in laws and see if I can get any insight from them?

Thanks for your reply.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

rsersen said:


> . Or maybe she didn't have an OM at the time, but met someone during the separation period.
> 
> Or she may just think that it's not worth putting in the work, and she wants to see what else is out there - i.e. "grass is greener". She'll probably find out that this isn't true, but she has to figure that out on her own


Thats my thinking, I think she got a taste of whats out there and enjoys the lack of guilt that comes with flirting with other men and get it in return.

I just see how easy it is for a spouse to dump a marriage when the other spouse has already been replaced. If there was no one else I think it would be hard for her to dump the marriage like she has.

Think about it, breaking up is hard to do...enless you already have someone waiting for you. I think she has someone waiting for her and once she told that someone that she is now seperating the affair has no turned into a new relationship.

Its time to change your tactics if this is in fact the case...hence the reason to investigate!!!!


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

edwindc said:


> Before we started counseling, she was kind and nurturing, but at the same time, she was very focused on her studies (she went back to school and is studying biochemistry). I was supportive of her going to school, as she was supportive of me while I spent 6.5 months preparing for my CPA examination years ago.
> We also started going to the gym together and eating more healthy. It was my idea to start exercising. So far, she has lost 40 pounds, and I have lost about 20. Her facebook activity did increase, but in my mind that was natural as she was going to school and meeting new friends is expected. The amount of friends she accepted on facebook was approximately an equal amount of girls and boys.
> 
> Although I am not certain, I don't believe there is another man in the picture. Her studies, even with me out of the picture, I believe will not allow her to see another man. Also, the men at school are boys, and she is 1.5x their age. But again, I am not sure unless I ask her.
> ...


Thanks.

The weight loss sticks out as a possible flag, only because my STBX had a similar story. She lost about 70 pounds over the last several months. When she was overweight, she still had a fair share of girl's nights, and some platonic male friends (that I was okay with, I knew them, hung out with them, they weren't a threat). Once the weight was dropped, she started getting more attention on those nights out, which I'm sure was a huge boost to her self-esteem and confidence. One night she met a guy, and under the guise of "just friends", an EA blossomed. He showered her with compliments, telling her everything she wanted to her...and in her mind she compared him to me, who admittedly was not the most affectionate husband on the planet. It was no competition.

And at the same time, my wife was also going back to school (online classes). She would spend most weeknights studying, but always had her phone nearby, and would text the OM throughout the night as she was studying. Between school, her social life, and her EA partner, I was basically shoved out of her life before I even knew what was happening. By the time I gained my bearings, found the evidence, and confronted her, demanding that she choose me or him...it was no choice in her mind, and out the door she went.

I'm not saying your wife did the same thing. But it's worth looking out for. Even if she does appear swamped with school work, that doesn't rule out the possibility of an emotional or physical affair.

The_guy is right - a walk-away wife is typically not going to run from the safety and security of a marriage without having something better waiting for her - whether it's another man waiting to greet her with open arms, or the illusion of freedom and greener grass. Or both.

I would not call the in-laws. I don't care how good you think your relationship is with them, they are going to come down on their daughter's side. You digging for information about her is going to come across to them as you asking them to pick a side...I promise you that they already have, and it's not yours. How about mutual friends you could talk to? Or maybe she has some siblings that you're close to? They're not going to take your side either, but they may be more open to giving you some insight, as opposed to her parents.

Do you still have a joint bank account? Could you see what she's doing with marital funds? Or look for large withdrawals or transfers that may be going to an account of her own? How about the cell phone? Still on a joint plan? You can view logs online to see who she's texting/calling, and when. Look for a large amount of texts/calls to any numbers that you don't know. It is a lot harder to gather evidence when she's not living there anymore, but there are some things you can do.


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## edwindc (Feb 24, 2013)

rsersen said:


> Do you still have a joint bank account? Could you see what she's doing with marital funds? Or look for large withdrawals or transfers that may be going to an account of her own? How about the cell phone? Still on a joint plan? You can view logs online to see who she's texting/calling, and when. Look for a large amount of texts/calls to any numbers that you don't know. It is a lot harder to gather evidence when she's not living there anymore, but there are some things you can do.


We used to have a joint bank account until she closed it. She said the money was hers from all of her educational money, but there was money in there for shared expenses that I put in. Before then, I used to monitor the bank account. Nothing odd was going on other than buying meals and school supplies at the university, or doing grocery shopping, even when we initially separated. 

I still pay for the joint cell phone (I pay for my wife and her mother), so I used to monitor her texts and calls. I came to find out they were to mainly classmates to schedule study groups. The phone numbers she texted were consistent week over week. As of now, she no longer uses the phone, although I still pay for it as well as her mom's phone. My wife now calls her mom's mobile phone on the land-line. I believe she either got another phone or is just using the land-line to make calls to her classmates (or the other possible guy). Other than calling my in-laws to ask if she is seeing another guy, how else could I find out?

My family (mainly, my mother and two older brothers) believe what she is doing is hurtful, unfair, and unreasonable. My mother told me that she knew of a couple in which one spouse not only cheated on her, but also had a serious alcohol problem. My mother explains that the difference between that situation vs. mine is that at least the other couple is talking and trying to reconcile. My wife, on the otherhand, as completely disengaged and I am left emotionally abandoned. My family thinks I should file the papers for divorce and get it over with. My instinct is not to do that quite yet, as its only been a short period of time.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd bet you every dollar in that joint account that she has another cell phone. I'm not sure how old you guys are, but if there's a woman in the US between the ages of 18-40 who _doesn't_ have a cell phone, I'd like to meet her. And the fact is, she had a free cell phone, that you were paying for. Why would she give that up and pay for her own? The only answer I can come up with is she's talking to someone, or someones, that she doesn't want you seeing. 

You know your in-laws better than I do, obviously. I just don't see that conversation going well - you're going to call them up and ask them point blank if your wife is seeing someone else...I doubt they will rat her out; rather, they'll take offense to you even suggesting that. If your wife does have someone else, it's very possible - hell, likely - that they have no idea anyway. My in-laws had no idea about my wife's exit affair until I exposed it to them...she had simply been painting a terrible picture of me, and telling them that she just couldn't stand to stay and work on the marriage, as if I were Satan himself. No walk-away wife wants to look their family in the eye and tell them she's having an adulterous relationship. And making you out to be the villain eases her guilt. I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what your wife is doing, and thus I wouldn't expect her family to be cooperative with you or help you dig for dirt on her.

So yes, at this point it's going to be very hard to prove anything. If you want to pursue it, you may want to make a new thread on the coping with infidelity section. Those guys are battle-tested veterans, and they may have more ideas on how you can gather evidence.

But I honestly feel like that may be a waste of energy. Regardless of your wife's reasons, she's walked away from your marriage, basically cut off communication, and seems content to throw in the towel. Whether she's in an affair fog, or suffering from "greener grass" syndrome, you can't talk her out of it. Pleading with her and chasing her will only push her farther away. The only thing you can do is detach from her and work on you. So the question becomes, what are you going to do for you, to help you get through this? You need to start preparing for the idea that she won't come back. I would highly recommend you continue individual counseling.

As for the divorce - has she explicitly said that she wants a divorce yet? As for whether or not you should be proactive and file now...hopefully someone else can offer their insight on that. I'm in that same boat myself right now, so I can't tell you which way to go.


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## edwindc (Feb 24, 2013)

She has not stated she wants a divorce. All that she has stated thus far is that we are different that is what divides us, that I know how she feels (which, quite honestly, i don't since she is not talking to me), and that I should respect her wishes, which i interpret as giving her space. I suppose all I can do is focus on myself and move on. I don't like giving up, but perhaps its my only option at this point. 

Maybe I'm over analyzing, and perhaps social media is over-rated, but why would she say she is still married on Facebook and yet has already taken off pictures of her and I?


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

So you've basically been in limbo since November, with no end in sight? That's awful. Seems to me that she's content to see what's out there (either the single life or someone else), and if it doesn't work, she knows she can come back to you. That's why she's not shutting the door. Right now you are her plan B. She wants nothing to do you with you at the moment, but isn't ready or willing to totally step out on her own yet.

I wouldn't stand for that. You've given her three months. I would tell her that she has one more month, and then you want a decision about what she wants. Then detach and wait for her to respond/react. Whether that gesture is going back to MC, or simply starting to see each other and date again, is up to you....but I would demand to see some kind of commitment to you and your marriage. If the month goes by and she has made no effort, then stick to your guns and file. If you let her call your bluff and you back down, forget about it - she'll be content to keep you in limbo forever, until she's finally ready to shut the door on you. Filing will do one of two things - show her you're serious, and bring her back in closer...or she'll be content to accept your decision and let you do it. For all we know, she's waiting for you to do it, so that way in her mind she can tell herself that you're the bad guy, and you ended the marriage. WAW's play a lot of games like that to convince themselves and others that they're not the problem. 

In either case, at least you'll have an answer. I wouldn't call that giving up, but eventually you do have to move on with your life, with her or without her.

As for Facebook - I would be cautious of reading too much into anything. It's an easy trap to fall into, and you'll end up driving yourself crazy. For a long time, even after my wife had dropped the D bomb, and was with her boyfriend, her facebook still had a cover photo from our wedding, her status was married, all of our photos were still up. It allowed me to maintain hope that she still wasn't sure what she wanted. And then last week she took the photos down, changed her status to "in a relationship" with the other guy, and I only ended up hurting that much more because I had been reading too much into it. Don't focus on that stuff.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I hate to break it to you like this, but she is cheating on you with somebody and it's not for the reasons she says. 

Check it out. 

Three years of marriage and suddenly she's pushing you into marriage counceling so you can control your anger around her..... Anger you probably never had until you were married and living with someone who put you down all the time and made you worry about their happiness. Sounds more like you got frustrated with your needs being ignored in favor of doing what she wants and so she took you to the "dog trainer" so you could be better controlled. 

Now you're more in touch with your emotions, and you've stopped drinking, if you ever did, and are willing to do the lions share of the work for her. But all you got was some bullsh!t excuse about how you broke her heart, hurt her feellings, and now she can never trust you. Sound about right?

That's because that is what 9 out of 10 husbands on here hear from their wives when they've been thoughtlessly replaced with someone else. Usually, the person you've been replaced with is a severe downgrade who is more willing to believe their lies and will enable them more than the husband who gets angry and enforces boundaries. Boundaries like, watching what she spends when you're making the only money, and "honey don't go out drinking on a school night when your grades are in trouble".

Here's what I think happened.... Somewhere during that trial separation she replaced you with someone she went to school with who she had been testing all along. The times she angered you coould have very well been her plan to push you out of the picture and make her feel like the helpless victim that had to divorce her mean husband for my wonderful she just met. 

Three years isn't all that uncommon for women to divorce especially when they've never known commitment to anything in their lives. That's usually when affairs happen that end up destroying the young marriage anyways. You can hate me for saying this but you need to dump this woman and move on. I mean really! You probably payed for everything in your marriage and she closed your joint accounts.... and you're ok with this?

Before you even read through the 180 list floating around here you need to cut off her gravy train and protect your money because a woman like this can very well rob you in your sleep and then wipe your tears away with promises to come back if you give her more money and be more patient with her. 

Read this: The Next Guy: Did your Ex-Girlfriend or Ex-Wife Downgrade? | Shrink4Men

If she was honest with you about wanting to reconcile and take her fair share of the blame, she would have invested more than just a couple sessions of MC where she can half ass her answers and cry real pretty in front of the therapist. Women who are worth their keep will blow off work and friends to spend some stress free time together and will do more than blame you for everything that's wrong with them. If she was really wanting to work on things she would and not just play the victim for more recuse type men she would have books on MC dog eared and workn out before she ever walked away. 

Leave her alone, at least for the next 8-12 weeks and go live your life without her. But first protect your money and change the locks on the door.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

edwindc said:


> so I used to monitor her texts and calls.


My WAW used a chat/messenger App on her iPhone. This is like Yahoo! or MSN Messenger on your phone. The messages go across the data network and are not sent as text, so they never show up on your bill.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

edwindc said:


> So far, she has lost 40 pounds, and I have lost about 20. Her facebook activity did increase......
> 
> Do you believe it is a good idea to call my in laws and see if I can get any insight from them?


Weight loss - Red flag #1

Facebook activity increasing - Red flag #2

"Dedicated to her studies" (less attention for you) - Red flag #3

"Equal number of new male and female friends on Facebook"

My word, it only takes one male "friend" to sink your marriage.

Equal number of new friends? 

Look at that statement from on high. What would you tell your best male friend his wife was up to?


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## edwindc (Feb 24, 2013)

The weight loss was not sudden, if that is what you are thinking Conrad. We had started exercising and eating healthy beginning in March of last year. At that time, we were happy and everything was going well. In essence, the weight loss was gradual and we were cooperative in our change in lifestyle. The only situation that was abrupt was her change in attitude and mindset after the 30 day time off period recommended by the initial counselor we saw (of which I was against, but really had no choice). In my mind, I place some of the blame on the counselor for even suggesting a mistaken course of action like splitting us up. 

As for her studies, her focus hasn't changed from March until now. Biochemistry is a difficult major to study, and a lot of time and effort are needed to succeed. I did give her the space she needed to study so that I was not a complete distraction. 

Certainly, I am not giving an excuse for my wife's recent actions or words she has said to me thus far.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

1) Increasing her sex rank

2) Increasing her future prospects for earning power

3) Increasing her social interaction with members of the opposite sex

Before anyone can tell you anything worthwhile, you need to know what you're up against.

At a minimum, it sounds like she's in an Emotional Affair with posOM.

You need to find out who he is, what she's doing, and he needs to go if your goal is to be realized.

Tools at your disposal:

Phone records, including texts and IM's

Email accounts

Voice Activated recorders under the seat of her car and under her bed.

Private investigators


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

> Private investigators


This may be the route I would go. Seems like the phone records aren't an option anymore, since she has a new one that you have no access to. E-Mail would be tricky unless you already know her passwords, since she's not there you can't use a keylogger. 

VARs are always a good option, but you would need access to either her car, or her bed at her mother's. Do you have a key to the place? Find an excuse to go over there and talk to MIL or something? Might be able to sneak it in, but I'd be hesitant - if it's discovered, you could be in a lot of trouble.

A PI would be able to at least tail her around for a weekend, see where she goes, who she meets, etc. It won't be cheap, but look around, I'm sure there are plenty of options in your area. I'm doing the same with my STBX right now, trying to gather evidence of her and her boyfriend to prove adultery. I was able to get one for $70/hour, with no charge for mileage. Not sure what your financial situation is, but if you really want to know for sure what's going on, this is likely the most foolproof option.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm sorry that you have to go through this it sucks. I would not waste your time worring about what she is doing, and just focus on yourself. I speak from experience, I was caught up in the trying to find out why she "fell out of love" and all it did was hurt me more. Sometimes, I believe that there is no real reason, I have finally come to terms that my marriage just ran its course. I hate the fact that the person I spent the last 14 years with wants out, but the more you dig and pry, the faster they go. I still have my bad days, but I try to dwell on my future not my past. If she really wants out, there is no way to stop her. Let her go, and focus on you. I know easier said than done, but it does help.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

lost hunter said:


> I'm sorry that you have to go through this it sucks. I would not waste your time worring about what she is doing, and just focus on yourself. I speak from experience, I was caught up in the trying to find out why she "fell out of love" and all it did was hurt me more. Sometimes, I believe that there is no real reason, I have finally come to terms that my marriage just ran its course. I hate the fact that the person I spent the last 14 years with wants out, but the more you dig and pry, the faster they go. I still have my bad days, but I try to dwell on my future not my past. If she really wants out, there is no way to stop her. Let her go, and focus on you. I know easier said than done, but it does help.


Could not disagree more.

People need to know why.

Quite often, the answer lies in the betrayed spouses' own behavior and assumptions.

But, if she's thick in affair fog, he has options on how to handle it.


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## edwindc (Feb 24, 2013)

I am starting to focus on myself, and to try not worry about what she is doing. It's very difficult, as my love for my wife is strong. I go through waves of sadness and depression, and at times I simply have to cry myself to sleep.

Sometimes therapy is hard because I sometimes ask my therapist why and how my wife is doing such a hurtful act by not talking to me. Consequently, he cannot give me answers as she is the only one who can; all we can do is just speculate, but that leads to nowhere. 

Our anniversary is coming up in several weeks, and I wonder if I should send her a card, a gift, or simply do not do anything. I do not want to appear to seem that I am trying to buy her feelings, but at the same time our anniversary means so much to me.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Are you willing to take the $100 bet?

I bet you $100 you would describe your courtship to marriage as something along the following.

-You met her and had "instant intimacy" from the very start.
-You would describe your relationship as face paced and a "whirlwind" or romance.
-You had the best sex of your life as much as you wanted for the first couple months.
-You were pressured to meet her family, her friends, and her relatives within 90 days of commitment.
-You were texted multiple times a day and often she wanted to know where you where and what you were doing.
-You were asked over and over why you loved her.
-You discussed having children or marriage before comitment.
-Your money is shared, but her money is hers.
-You saw her acting strangely before, but she covered it up with affection and sex with you.
-You see her cry, get angry, yell, scream for no reason and are told you did this to her.
-You were told by her that she "can't trust you", she "can't love you", or "you broke her heart". 
-You were told one excuse in the beginning for her leaving and now have heard two or three more.
-You know very little about her past relationships except that they were jerks and abusive towards her.
-You were told you're special from the very start and heard excess flattery from her before you proposed.
-You are devalued now for things she says or does.
-You are gaslighted for things she has sayed or done.
-You heard lies such as "I never wanted to do that, but you made me anyways."
-You heard stories about her childhood as her being a princess, high maintenance, a heartbreaker, or problem child.
-You are told you need to fix yourself so she can love you.
-You were told something along the lines of "You are a loser, but don't leave me".

If more than two of these rings a bell. Run and don't look back!


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

NSweet, how about if 8+ ring a bell?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

I could point you to another site with even more of the big hitter questions, but this is my own list off the top of my head for tonight. If a lot of this ring a bell with you and your spouse is driving you off the freakin deep end, maybe you're in anger management or taking relaxation pills you don't even need...... Congradulations you married crazy. 

If you married before you even got to know your spouse and right after the honeymoon stage you're told something is wrong with you, you're devalued for being responsible with money and time management, you're told there's something wrong with you and you need to treat her/him better(act right around them) - and you're already stressing over how to be a better spouse to please them , maybe even told your feelings/needs don't matter compared to hers ALL THE TIME, and the only time you see your spouse be sweet with you is when you start to pull away..... It's not you, it's THEM!

If ^THIS^ sounds familiar and you're already going through a divorce. Protect your finances and your children from legal abuse first, and just let them walk away like they wanted. It's ok to mourne the loss of the relatioship with the person you thought you knew, but don't resort to suicide or go thinking you did something wrong to make them turn into such a horrible monster whenever they were with you. You had your part too, but cheating and emotional abuse were their final decision NOT yours! Finally, confront your issues with how you were raises and your relationship patterns in the past and try your best to STOP THE CYCLE. You don't have to go through this again if you do the work now to confront your issues and settle your need for validation, need to rescue others, or need to bein in a dramatic chaos filled relationship. 

That's all I can prescribe for the good men and women here fighting so hard to save the losing battle with spouses and lovers who treat them poorly and make them feel worthless for trying to be a better spouse.


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

edwindc said:


> I am starting to focus on myself, and to try not worry about what she is doing. It's very difficult, as my love for my wife is strong. I go through waves of sadness and depression, and at times I simply have to cry myself to sleep.
> 
> Sometimes therapy is hard because I sometimes ask my therapist why and how my wife is doing such a hurtful act by not talking to me. Consequently, he cannot give me answers as she is the only one who can; all we can do is just speculate, but that leads to nowhere.
> 
> Our anniversary is coming up in several weeks, and I wonder if I should send her a card, a gift, or simply do not do anything. I do not want to appear to seem that I am trying to buy her feelings, but at the same time our anniversary means so much to me.


Do nothing. Any attempts that make it look like you're trying to "buy" her back will just piss her off. If one of her complaints about you was a lack of affection/attention, getting her anything now will piss her off. Believe me, a few days after my wife left, I had flowers sent to her office (one of the little things she said I never did enough), and you would have thought I had sent her a bag of flaming crap. 

She seems to have made her desire for space very clear, so give it to her. If she turns around and gets mad that you did nothing, that's her problem - if she's content to walk away and basically cut off contact for 3+ months, how can she possibly expect you to celebrate your anniversary?


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Nsweet said:


> Are you willing to take the $100 bet?
> 
> I bet you $100 you would describe your courtship to marriage as something along the following.
> 
> ...


Wow. I can say yes to probably 5 or 6 of those overall, but this one in particular sticks out. I never could understand why I was constantly being interrogated with "why do you love me?" It became so damn frustrating - as time went on it became harder to come up with original answers right on the spot, which would then just put her into a funk. 

Never thought about what that might have meant until now. Well, I won't miss that. Her boyfriend can have fun answering that question over and over and over and over again, and when he runs out of good answers, she'll bounce to the next guy who can.


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## edwindc (Feb 24, 2013)

Nsweet said:


> Are you willing to take the $100 bet?
> 
> I bet you $100 you would describe your courtship to marriage as something along the following.
> 
> ...


Actually, none of these apply to my courtship to marriage. We did not have instant intimacy at the start, and it definitely was not a whirlwind romance. I wasn't pressured to meet her parents in 90 days, and in fact, I met her parents when we were dating after a year. She did not text me multiple times a day to see where I was - when I missed a call from her (and only a couple of calls a day she made) she would text to see what I was up to. That is normal. 

We actually shared a lot about our past relationships, and we were honest with one another. We did not express excess flattery, but I did complement her from time to time, which is normal. She never called me a loser, and she never told me that i needed to fix myself in order for her to love me. Instead, she suggested we go to MC so that we can communicate better with each other as well as to address my anger/temper issues.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

edwindc said:


> Actually, none of these apply to my courtship to marriage. We did not have instant intimacy at the start, and it definitely was not a whirlwind romance. I wasn't pressured to meet her parents in 90 days, and in fact, I met her parents when we were dating after a year. She did not text me multiple times a day to see where I was - when I missed a call from her (and only a couple of calls a day she made) she would text to see what I was up to. That is normal.
> 
> We actually shared a lot about our past relationships, and we were honest with one another. We did not express excess flattery, but I did complement her from time to time, which is normal. She never called me a loser, and she never told me that i needed to fix myself in order for her to love me. Instead, she suggested we go to MC so that we can communicate better with each other as well as to address my anger/temper issues.


So you head none of these red flags, and you would say your courtship with your wife moved at a regular pace? Interesting. 

She passed the crazy test. And yes, I know it sounds aweful but there are different playbooks for normal breakups and divorces, the "I'm just not that into you anymore". And then there are the crazy divorces, the "It's all your fault I'm like this, I've taked every last penny along with your kids, see you in court for false rape charges, assh*le." - Yeah those kinds that make you wonder what you did to your spouse to make them want to punish you like this instead of just leave and ask the judge for a little money and shared custody. 

In this case, since you didn't hear any of that you would follow the normal 180 guidlines of "Don't chase, don't beg, don't argue, and don't give in to hoovering". As much as it hurts and you feel you know better than all the veteranos of divorce here..... DO NOT TRY TO GET HER BACK!!!!!!

If you think you know better then please do your thing. But I'm telling you if you agree with her and sign off the divorce papers without a fight, so long as she's not trying to get at you money and property or keep you from seeing your kids(if you have kids). Agree with her to divorce and give her the "happily ever after" she thinks she's going to get and just pull away from her. I promise you, you two will stop fighting and she will respect the hell out of you for avoiding her "Hey, it's me.... I'M SOOO BORED!" phone calls and for not trying to win her back. Because if you try to push her for reconciliation she is only going to see that as an attack on her pride, since she's made her decision already and feels pride in moving towards divorce to be with some assh*le downgrade boyfriend. 

Also avoid her for a good 8-12 weeks before you do anything else, especially if you've been chasing her for a while. She needs to go through her honeymoon phase with the OM and get all of her validation and needs met by him, without using you as a scapegoat for her problems or putting him in the role as a rescuer saving her from a badman - You're not, but cheating women seem to love using this excuse to tell their boyfriend. Don't worry, he'll be the even worse bad man soon enough. But that won't happen..... I mean the breakup or divorce(if they marry) until after your divorce when the second false honeymoon takes place. That is if she was even worth winning back...... 

Though honestly. If she's cheated on you before your third year of marriage, somewhere in that conflict stage where you say "Ok, honey now you help me out a little.", then she just isn't worth it. And really dude, no cheater is worth winning back unless you two have kids, are over 35 years old, and have at least ten years of marriage under your belt. I say let her get tossed around by all the fun bad boys while you pick up the pieces, learn from your mistakes, and upgrade to a better woman who will be willing to work on the relationship instead of cheat on you this early. 

And no matter what you have heard, you're not a bad guy. You're here learning how to be a better husband and beating yourself up for not being perfect. You're good enough to marry! Just ask the wives on here with husbands who sleep with every woman they meet, use drugs, and/or beat them and the kids up..... You're way better than that! You just need to see it yourself and get over the emotional abuse and bullsh!t spell you've been under.


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