# Value Meal



## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

As human beings we look for value in everything.But I wonder where is the value that a LD person receives from being so self center about sex.Another way to ask this is .I am not very nice or good about excepting the dry spells that my LD wife gives me.But there must be a greater value she gets from it to allow it to happen.
As sex go's I live in her world.She has control of it.Its hers to offer.I use to get pissed off about it. And wein and beg, At this point in life I just leave her alone.I limit my conversations with her,Bring no humor to the table.Just really don't hang out with her.But no matter what I do to her .She finds value in staying the course.She is happier not enjoying a well balanced sex life.She appears to be just fine with no sex and a bad relationship.She could have it the other way.But she finds value in the way she has it.
Resently I have removed all cuddling,affection,limit conversation,Really trying to create the roommate relationship that works for her.I raised the white flag and surrender to her lack of sexual desire.But I try to find peace within with it.I just wonder why is it so important to her .Why do these types of people trade the wonderful life they could have,For their own sake


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I doubt she sees the corrolation between lack of sex and a bad relationship. Rather I think she sees a bad relationship as a reason not to have sex.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Read "Married Man Sex Life Primer" it helped me. Take control of your sex life back. NEVER beg EVER. Please read the book. Change your life now.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

A guy works hard all day, comes home, grabs a beer and collapses in his favorite chair. His wife tells him dinner is ready and he sits down to eat, in silence, and when finished goes back to his chair and beer. He watches TV until bedtime.

His wife wonders "why is it so important for him not to talk to me?"

It isn't. He views the marriage as perfect... he gets home and can relax and have a couple of beers.

AND... his wife never bothers to try to get a conversation out of him.

So your wife isn't interested in sex so you have stopped trying and will live like roommates. I can tell you that will get old quick. You will grow in resentment and frustration.

Address it now. Real Married Man Sex Life. Don't surrender.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> I doubt she sees the corrolation between lack of sex and a bad relationship. Rather I think she sees a bad relationship as a reason not to have sex.


I will take a look at your POV.But like most people in a lack of sex relationship.When we get more of what we want and need . we tend to become happier and the relationship becomes better.My Wife has had a good relationship and still the sex does not change.She has been rewarded forever for her actions. Somehow she would perfer her life to be the way she plays it.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

It actually how YOUR playing it. To be honest.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

What are you getting out of it by staying?

See how I did that?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Just Wondering said:


> I will take a look at your POV.But like most people in a lack of sex relationship.When we get more of what we want and need . we tend to become happier and the relationship becomes better.My Wife has had a good relationship and still the sex does not change.She has been rewarded forever for her actions. Somehow she would perfer her life to be the way she plays it.


Firstly, I have and again am living a sexual relationship that isn't 100% fulfilling. In my marriage to my ex-wife, sex was only given to get me off her back, nothing more. No passion, desire, nothing. So I know all about a lack of sex relationship.

Secondly, you state your wife has a good relationship. Yet in your first post you say this:

"At this point in life I just leave her alone.I limit my conversations with her,Bring no humor to the table.Just really don't hang out with her.... She appears to be just fine with no sex and a bad relationship.... Resently I have removed all cuddling,affection,limit conversation,Really trying to create the roommate relationship..."

I have no clue what your definition of a good relationship is, but that doesn't sound like one to me. Also, you say "she appears.." By saying that, I presume you haven't actually asked her if she enjoys less sex, you just assume it.

Frankly it sounds like you need to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with her. I think you may find she's not interested for a lot of the very reasons you said you are doing in what I quoted above.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

To her, sex probably has very little to do with the relationship. To her, the primary function of a husband is probably to provide her with financial support or other security. What her husband wants or needs either doesn't make a tiny blip on her radar screen or she's convinced herself that what she thinks he needs from her is superior to whatever he thinks he needs from her.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Just Wondering said:


> As human beings we look for value in everything.But I wonder where is the value that a LD person receives from being so self center about sex.Another way to ask this is .I am not very nice or good about excepting the dry spells that my LD wife gives me.But there must be a greater value she gets from it to allow it to happen.
> As sex go's I live in her world.She has control of it.Its hers to offer.I use to get pissed off about it. And wein and beg,* At this point in life I just leave her alone.I limit my conversations with her,Bring no humor to the table.Just really don't hang out with her.*But no matter what I do to her .She finds value in staying the course.She is happier not enjoying a well balanced sex life.She appears to be just fine with no sex and a bad relationship.She could have it the other way.But she finds value in the way she has it.
> 
> *Resently I have removed all cuddling,affection,limit conversation,Really trying to create the roommate relationship that works for her*.I raised the white flag and surrender to her lack of sexual desire.But I try to find peace within with it.I just wonder why is it so important to her .Why do these types of people trade the wonderful life they could have,For their own sake


This is very sad  ...Why do you stay ...children? 

This is why people fall into affairs -when emotional needs are not met in the marriage....Meanwhile a* resentment wall* is building brick by brick.....does she really NOT care that your level of interaction is like 2 emotionally numb roommates, without laughter, no signs of affection ...Joy in the home? She is surely putting on an ACT as well to appear cool and collected. 

Was it EVER good, the sex life flowing?

Both of you have UNMET core emotional needs...and like so many, have chosen to fall into the dreaded *silent treatment* to handle the divide....this cold go on for YEARS...(wasted yrs...life is too short to allow this).....both playing stubborn & wants the other to Cave 1st. 

Sometimes it takes a Gutter experience, family crisis, even an infidelity to wake some up -once this starts rolling as you described here..

This is THE Book that could help you both ...if you & SHE (always takes 2!)..could put aside your differences and agree to salvage this marriage (if you both want it?)...to work on pleasing each other, unloading the resentment, and forgiveness going forth.... 

His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage  

...This book explains all of our core Emotional Needs -in a healthy thriving marriage, to WHY it is So darn important.... the problem is we have them in different orders....her Sexual fulfillment might be a #10, and yours a #1 ! Huge divide...but if you both could bring it to a 5 ..and accept this level..there is always HOPE!




> 10 Emotional needs:
> 
> 
> 1. *Admiration*
> ...










 Emotional Needs Questionnaire


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

It sounds to me like YOU are being the selfish one OP. YOU are damaging the relationship because your wife isn't interested in having sex. You want it anyway, so you are going to sabotage the marriage to punish her for not giving in to you. You think you know better than her. You think every thing will be fairy dust and roses if you just have more sex and that is bull crap. She will hate herself and eventually you if she submits to your wants in this. She does not want sex. She does not have a need for it. It is not important to her. It doesn't matter that you want it, because you can't force her to give it to you. Not legally. 
She doesn't need to have sex to have a happy and lasting relationship with you. She can love you and adore you and support you and care for you to your dying day and never ever want to touch you in that way again. YOU have to learn to accept that, because that is who she is.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

OP you don't have to accept any of it.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It sounds to me like YOU are being the selfish one OP. YOU are damaging the relationship because your wife isn't interested in having sex. You want it anyway, so you are going to sabotage the marriage to punish her for not giving in to you. You think you know better than her. You think every thing will be fairy dust and roses if you just have more sex and that is bull crap. She will hate herself and eventually you if she submits to your wants in this. She does not want sex. She does not have a need for it. It is not important to her. It doesn't matter that you want it, because you can't force her to give it to you. Not legally.
> She doesn't need to have sex to have a happy and lasting relationship with you. She can love you and adore you and support you and care for you to your dying day and never ever want to touch you in that way again. *YOU have to learn to accept that, because that is who she is.*


LOTL, I like you and your posts, but there's no way any man or woman HAS to accept a sexless marriage. Not a chance in hell...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> She doesn't need to have sex to have a happy and lasting relationship with you. She can love you and adore you and support you and care for you to your dying day and never ever want to touch you in that way again.


This is a lie. First of all, a relationship involves 2 people. That's the basic definition, the first requirement.... And for the relationship to be happy and lasting, both people have to be happy. It may be true that his wife can be happy, but it's not true that the relationship will be happy or lasting. Second, loving someone, adoring them, supporting them, caring for them....these are verbs. They require action. And if she never ever wants to touch her in that way again, there is no chance that she actually loves him or adores him or any of the rest.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It sounds to me like YOU are being the selfish one OP. YOU are damaging the relationship because your wife isn't interested in having sex. You want it anyway, so you are going to sabotage the marriage to punish her for not giving in to you. You think you know better than her. You think every thing will be fairy dust and roses if you just have more sex and that is bull crap. She will hate herself and eventually you if she submits to your wants in this. She does not want sex. She does not have a need for it. It is not important to her. It doesn't matter that you want it, because you can't force her to give it to you. Not legally.
> She doesn't need to have sex to have a happy and lasting relationship with you. She can love you and adore you and support you and care for you to your dying day and never ever want to touch you in that way again. YOU have to learn to accept that, because that is who she is.


I have to disagree with this. To many, sex is a necessary part of a healthy, happy relationship. 

On the one hand, you are saying it is perfectly ok for her not to have sex because she is happy without it and having sex might make her unhappy. On the other hand, OP is not happy because of the lack of sex in the marriage and you are saying .... just shut up and deal with it. That doesn't make any sense.

I agree that it is perfectly ok for the wife not to have sex if she doesn't want it. It is also perfectly ok for OP to consider that a dealbreaker in his marriage.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is a lie. First of all, a relationship involves 2 people. That's the basic definition, the first requirement.... And for the relationship to be happy and lasting, both people have to be happy. It may be true that his wife can be happy, but it's not true that the relationship will be happy or lasting. Second, loving someone, adoring them, supporting them, caring for them....these are verbs. They require action. And if she never ever wants to touch her in that way again, there is no chance that she actually loves him or adores him or any of the rest.


Have you ever been LD? 

I never loved my husband any less and yet I had no desire, no interest in being sexual with him. If he'd been a eunuch, I'd have felt just the same about him as I do now. So, it is absolutely possible to love, adore, support, and care for someone and never want to bed them. Most definitely. 
I get this feeling that HD people think they know better than the LD, that they know the LD is missing something and that there is something wrong with them for being LD. There isn't. They aren't missing anything. They don't WANT it, so they aren't missing it. Their priorities are different, they value different things. Physicality is not a priority.....so they don't miss it. 

Marriage is so much more than just swapping fluids. Don't miss the big beautiful forest because you are staring at a shrub.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It sounds to me like YOU are being the selfish one OP. YOU are damaging the relationship because your wife isn't interested in having sex. You want it anyway, so you are going to sabotage the marriage to punish her for not giving in to you. You think you know better than her. You think every thing will be fairy dust and roses if you just have more sex and that is bull crap. She will hate herself and eventually you if she submits to your wants in this. She does not want sex. She does not have a need for it. It is not important to her. It doesn't matter that you want it, because you can't force her to give it to you. Not legally.
> She doesn't need to have sex to have a happy and lasting relationship with you. She can love you and adore you and support you and care for you to your dying day and never ever want to touch you in that way again. YOU have to learn to accept that, because that is who she is.[/QUOTE
> 
> Anyone who has the ability to meet a reasonable, basic need but refuses to do so does not love the party they are neglecting. They certainly don't "adore" them. A mother who has food but refuses to feed her baby isn't a loving mother. She'd be a felon and the lowest and most wicked of human life forms. Without violating their marriage vows, a spouse cannot go elsewhere for sex. Their mate either meets that need or they cause their partner to suffer. Love doesn't intentionally cause suffering. We call that behavior "cruelty".


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> YOU have to learn to accept that, because that is who she is.





MrBrains said:


> OP you don't have to accept any of it.


You are of course both right.

You have to accept other people for who they are, as long as they're not doing anything that would land them afoul of the local constabulary. There's no alternative. That acceptance does not require you to have anything else to do with them for as long as you live. 

If the things she cannot give you are important, you shouldn't allow anyone to make you feel guilty or broken for wanting them or for rejecting someone as a mate who is unable to provide them. Desiring sex is no different from desiring communication, shared values, empathy, care, fidelity, or selflessness from a spouse. 

Just as you must accept her, so must she accept you.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Have you ever been LD?
> 
> I never loved my husband any less and yet I had no desire, no interest in being sexual with him. If he'd been a eunuch, I'd have felt just the same about him as I do now. So, it is absolutely possible to love, adore, support, and care for someone and never want to bed them. Most definitely.
> I get this feeling that HD people think they know better than the LD, that they know the LD is missing something and that there is something wrong with them for being LD. There isn't. They aren't missing anything. They don't WANT it, so they aren't missing it. Their priorities are different, they value different things. Physicality is not a priority.....so they don't miss it.
> ...


I think it may be true that both the HD and LD have different perspectives. The HD doesn't understand why the LD doesn't want to have sex more often or considers it a chore when they do and the LD doesn't understand why it is so darn important to the HD. You are saying that the HD thinks there is something wrong with the LD ... I would counter that many LD think that there is something wrong with the HD.

A few years ago, I separated from my wife. The reasons had little to do with mismatched sex drives. However, it did come up in marriage counseling. What did she say? "You just want to run off with some horned up slvt!" Keep in mind, I didn't separate to run off with anybody ... and no, I didn't want to replace her with some horned up slvt ... I just wanted a reasonably normal sex life with my wife.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Marriage is so much more than just swapping fluids. Don't miss the big beautiful forest because you are staring at a shrub.


You don't get to decide what is important for anyone else in their marriage, and the effort you keep putting into trying is getting wearisome. 

If the forest without the shrub is unappealing, then that is for the individual to decide. 

With 3+ billion women in the world, I can find all of the things you place a greater value on in a marriage with a woman who also values sex. No one is in a position to tell me I'm wrong, shortsighted, or shallow to do so.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Have you ever been LD?
> 
> I never loved my husband any less and yet I had no desire, no interest in being sexual with him. If he'd been a eunuch, I'd have felt just the same about him as I do now. So, it is absolutely possible to love, adore, support, and care for someone and never want to bed them. Most definitely.
> I get this feeling that HD people think they know better than the LD, that they know the LD is missing something and that there is something wrong with them for being LD. There isn't. They aren't missing anything. They don't WANT it, so they aren't missing it. Their priorities are different, they value different things. Physicality is not a priority.....so they don't miss it.
> ...


I don't believe you loved him. Not nearly as much as you think you did. If you loved him, you'd desire him. Love includes caring about someone else's feeling more than your own, and you just don't.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Anyone who has the ability to meet a reasonable, basic need but refuses to do so does not love the party they are neglecting. They certainly don't "adore" them. A mother who has food but refuses to feed her baby isn't a loving mother. She'd be a felon and the lowest and most wicked of human life forms. Without violating their marriage vows, a spouse cannot go elsewhere for sex. Their mate either meets that need or they cause their partner to suffer. Love doesn't intentionally cause suffering. We call that behavior "cruelty".


Sex isn't a basic need. Food, water, shelter, clothing, security....those are basic needs. Sex isn't even on the radar when it comes to human needs. It is a want, pure and simple. A desire....hence the terms "HD and LD". Humans are wired to search out pleasure, we are inherent hedonists. Sex fills that role, and apparently some sort of mystic bonding juju as well. But it is utterly irrelevant as a need. 

As for love not causing suffering, is that only true so long as it's not the HD person suffering? Is it ok if the LD person is suffering through unwanted and undesired amorous onslaughts? As long as the HD is getting his or her rocks off, it doesn't matter how the LD suffers, does it? Because it's sex, and sex is wonderful and everyone should want sex and HD's are just doing what is best for the relationship, right?:scratchhead:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Sex isn't a basic need.


It may not be strictly an individual need, but it sure as hell is a species wide need. Which means it is absolutely incumbent on at least some of the individuals to engage in it. 

That might not rise to the level of an every-day-stay-alive need, but then neither is food and water, really. Unless you want all human life erased from the earth in a couple of generations, it's a basic need for all procreative life forms.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> *I don't believe you loved him. Not nearly as much as you think you did.* If you loved him, you'd desire him. Love includes caring about someone else's feeling more than your own, and you just don't.


And you'd be very very very wrong. I suffered and sacrificed more than I am willing to talk about in a public forum to be with him and to keep our relationship going. Ours is a very complicated and sad story. I have loved him for nearly half my life and most of that time has had nothing to do with sex. 

I was strong enough and confident enough to expect him to place importance on MY feelings, rather than dismiss them as inconvenient since they didn't mesh with what he wanted from me. He did.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Sex isn't a basic need. Food, water, shelter, clothing, security....those are basic needs. Sex isn't even on the radar when it comes to human needs. It is a want, pure and simple. A desire....hence the terms "HD and LD". Humans are wired to search out pleasure, we are inherent hedonists. Sex fills that role, and apparently some sort of mystic bonding juju as well. But it is utterly irrelevant as a need.
> 
> As for love not causing suffering, is that only true so long as it's not the HD person suffering? Is it ok if the LD person is suffering through unwanted and undesired amorous onslaughts? As long as the HD is getting his or her rocks off, it doesn't matter how the LD suffers, does it? Because it's sex, and sex is wonderful and everyone should want sex and HD's are just doing what is best for the relationship, right?:scratchhead:


Every LD person feels like this in one way or another at times, thanks for illustrating this so eloquently.

This surely rings true for me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> And you'd be very very very wrong. I suffered and sacrificed more than I am willing to talk about in a public forum to be with him and to keep our relationship going. Ours is a very complicated and sad story. I have loved him for nearly half my life and most of that time has had nothing to do with sex.
> 
> I was strong enough and confident enough to expect him to place importance on MY feelings, rather than dismiss them as inconvenient since they didn't mesh with what he wanted from me. He did.


Your post proves he loved you more than you loved him. He bent to your will. You took, he gave. Unless there's more to the story, but that's the impression your posts give.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Your post proves he loved you more than you loved him. He bent to your will. You took, he gave. Unless there's more to the story, but that's the impression your posts give.


There is much more to the story. I gave much much more for there even to be a relationship. I sacrificed a great deal. More than I would have for anyone else, ever. Perhaps that had something to do with his willingness to deal with my disinterest in sex. I've never thought of it. I have never held him responsible for what I gave up because I gave it freely and without restraint and never looked back. In fact, this is the first time I've even mentioned it since we've been together. What's done is done, and that had nothing to do with me being LD.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It sounds to me like YOU are being the selfish one OP. YOU are damaging the relationship because your wife isn't interested in having sex. You want it anyway, so you are going to sabotage the marriage to punish her for not giving in to you. You think you know better than her. You think every thing will be fairy dust and roses if you just have more sex and that is bull crap. She will hate herself and eventually you if she submits to your wants in this. She does not want sex. She does not have a need for it. It is not important to her. It doesn't matter that you want it, because you can't force her to give it to you. Not legally.
> She doesn't need to have sex to have a happy and lasting relationship with you. She can love you and adore you and support you and care for you to your dying day and never ever want to touch you in that way again. YOU have to learn to accept that, because that is who she is.


What a bunch of sh8t.Ya know if She isn't into it because something has change inside of her.Then there should be some options for me offered.Do I lose my life long investment in everything we own.Because she is not horny.Do I go without sex because she does not need it.No I don't.She changed not me.What she should do is tell me how sorry she is for not being able to be in a well balanced marriage.And then she should have to go to some island for people who get involved in a relationship and then change and don't want to be touched.I am intitled to have a sexual life.But I got two choices Lose everything and start over or live with a women who is inadquate sexually.Just remember I didn't change,Ya know if you don't want a sexual man in your life don't married one.What She should do is stand up and say I have failed as a partner for you.I will leave you with everything and be on my way.Maybe She can go find a single wide 50' footer in a trailer part some where and enjoy her wonderful life.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Just Wondering said:


> What a bunch of sh8t.Ya know if She isn't into it because something has change inside of her.Then there should be some options for me offered.Do I lose my life long investment in everything we own.Because she is not horny.Do I go without sex because she does not need it.No I don't.She changed not me.What she should do is tell me how sorry she is for not being able to be in a well balanced marriage.And then she should have to go to some island for people who get involved in a relationship and then change and don't want to be touched.I am intitled to have a sexual life.But I got two choices Lose everything and start over or live with a women who is inadquate sexually.Just remember I didn't change,Ya know if you don't want a sexual man in your life don't married one.What She should do is stand up and say I have failed as a partner for you.I will leave you with everything and be on my way.Maybe She can go find a single wide 50' footer in a trailer part some where and enjoy her wonderful life.


So instead SHE should lose everything because she doesn't share your same view of a "well balanced marriage"? You most certainly are NOT entitled to a sexual life.....that is a gift for someone to GiVE to you. If you are acting like this is something she owes you, like she has a debt to fill......there is your problem. Don't act like a sexual loan shark.....it seems so obvious, but apparently it isn't. 
She hasn't failed at anything, and your attitude stinks to high heaven of entitlement issues and lack of respect for your wife. It's no wonder you two are having issues. 
Putting her on a deserted island in a trailer park because she doesn't want to bang you? Get over yourself. 

In this situation, if she has changed towards you, I am certain the reason why is staring back at you in the mirror.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Just Wondering said:


> As human beings we look for value in everything.But I wonder where is the value that a LD person receives from being so self center about sex.Another way to ask this is .I am not very nice or good about excepting the dry spells that my LD wife gives me.But there must be a greater value she gets from it to allow it to happen.
> As sex go's I live in her world.She has control of it.Its hers to offer.I use to get pissed off about it. And wein and beg, At this point in life I just leave her alone.I limit my conversations with her,Bring no humor to the table.Just really don't hang out with her.But no matter what I do to her .She finds value in staying the course.She is happier not enjoying a well balanced sex life.She appears to be just fine with no sex and a bad relationship.She could have it the other way.But she finds value in the way she has it.
> Resently I have removed all cuddling,affection,limit conversation,Really trying to create the roommate relationship that works for her.I raised the white flag and surrender to her lack of sexual desire.But I try to find peace within with it.I just wonder why is it so important to her .Why do these types of people trade the wonderful life they could have,For their own sake


It makes her feel in control. Each of the points you suggested, if it was adjusted more to your liking would represent losing control.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> So instead SHE should lose everything because she doesn't share your same view of a "well balanced marriage"? You most certainly are NOT entitled to a sexual life.....that is a gift for someone to GiVE to you. If you are acting like this is something she owes you, like she has a debt to fill......there is your problem. Don't act like a sexual loan shark.....it seems so obvious, but apparently it isn't.
> She hasn't failed at anything, and your attitude stinks to high heaven of entitlement issues and lack of respect for your wife. It's no wonder you two are having issues.
> Putting her on a deserted island in a trailer park because she doesn't want to bang you? Get over yourself.
> 
> In this situation, if she has changed towards you, I am certain the reason why is staring back at you in the mirror.


Let me tell you this.When I took her out on our First Date she enjoyed it all.And now she has lost interest all together.Not my fault.I should not have to live in her world.She has got the problem with sex not me.She has again failed me in marriage.If She elects to go thur life without having sex than thats fine.But thats not what I signed up for.She needs help with her problem.Like try and see a doctor about it.Why do you think I need to live like this.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Anyone who states that sex is unimportant or of low importance to a fulfilling marriage is a hypocrite. The only tangible reason for there to be a sexless marriage is if the husband/wife is incapable of having sex due to a medical condition. Any other reasons are quite selfish on the part of the person who does not want to have sex.


I call BS on this. There is no one standard for a "fulfilling" marriage. What is fulfilling to me may be onerous or empty to another. 



> If sex is so unimportant to a relationship, then why is it that the person refusing to have sex almost always recoils in horror or would be extremely hurt if their SO wants to have sex with someone else yet remain married? If sex is so unimportant, why doesn't the spouse who dislikes sex simply give into his/her spouse anyways to make the sex-loving spouse happy? To equate sex with having little importance to an LD person, one would think that to an LD person sex is no different than washing a car, cleaning a house, running an errand, etc. If that's truly the case, then a HD person should insist on having a regular sex life with his/her LD spouse. If sex is no different than washing a car, then it's just part of the things that spouses do for each other because they love each other.


A marriage is a union of two. Adding a third person as a concubine would just add all sorts of logistical problems and hopeless amount of drama 
As for sex being like washing the car or doing other chores, yes it certainly can be. And some LD's are willing to treat it as such. But more often than not, their spouses complain about "duty" sex. 
However, giving up sex without the desire for it requires more personal investment than doing the laundry. It is giving of ones body and allowing intimate access to it. When this isn't wanted by the LD it can cause a GREAT deal of distress. The distress leads to resentment, which leads to even less chance of the LD having a desire and it goes round and round. 



> However...the reality is that most LD spouses who never want to have sex with their H/W ever again are highly upset over the notion - let alone the actual act - of their spouse having sex with another person. Most LD people who think sex is so unimportant go out of their way to avoid having sex - even getting angry/upset/sad/tearful/etc. over the idea of having sex. The hypocrisy comes when an LD person claims sex is unimportant, yet respond to sex with such emotion if they are either put on the spot by their spouse or if their spouse wants to have sex outside of marriage. The LD person KNOWS that sex is an important component of a marriage. Their actions prove that.


Invariably the LD spouse knows the HD spouse wants something from them that they cannot freely give. It likely does stir emotions in the LD, but not the kind of which you speak. 



> An LD person who sees sex as unimportant and refuses to have sex with their higher drive spouses are extremely selfish. It's analogous to a selfish child who has a toy that they don't want to play with. However, if another child tries to play with that toy, the first child bristles with anger that the 2nd child would DARE to try to play with their toy. So the toy gets moved somewhere "safe" away from those grubby hands from other children who actually desire to play with the toy. Meanwhile, the toy is now "safe" and left in spot where it remains untouched.
> 
> Hypocrisy, Selfishness and basically Bullsh!t



An HD person who sees sex as more important than the feelings and integrity of their spouse is a poor spouse indeed.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I think it's safe to say that if two people don't share the same views on needs, wants and expectations and are unwilling to come to an agreement, it's time to part ways. 

I can be really good friends with a guy that I like to spend time with and never want to fvck. Why would I want to be married to him or torture him with never giving it up?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> A marriage is a union of two. Adding a third person as a concubine would just add all sorts of logistical problems and hopeless amount of drama


My ex-wife had PA's, and EA's. At one point having 12 EA's on the go at the same time (and no, I'm not kidding). I'm not sure of how many went physical.

And until I found out about them, none of them added any logistical problems to our life. 

As for the drama, the only reason there was drama was because I felt that I, and I alone, should have sole access to her in a sexual way, both emotionally and physically. That said, if I expect to have sole access, I have an expectation to provide as well, regardlesss of what you may think.

If you expect your spouse to be faithful, you have to expect to provide. The mail is the only way to send letters and such (outside of couriers, et al) across the country in Canada. They have a monopoly on the mail service. However they can't simply elect to refuse to deliver the mail and also expect no one to try and find a different way to get the mail through. 

You can't have it both ways and just say 'deal with it'


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Ladyofthelake,This to me is not up for your approval.If I wanted to have a debate about a persons lack of sexual desire I can talk to my wife.Key word is Lack of.Your Position on this matter is not in balance with the universe.It does not work.Its disfuctional and it only serves yourself.You make no one else happy with this stance but your self.The one thing I will always wonder about why LD people can not explain where they come from with their thoughts.
They defend their position on the subject.But can never really put a finger on what went wrong with them.{Like} I am going thur something ,But I don't know what it is.
Well to end this.I am sorry for your bitterness on this matter.As with my wife I will stay by her side as always I love her very much.I have been married many yrs.And Love life very much.I am just a man that's likes to keep his sperm count down low and enjoy my wife's pretty body as much as I can.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Just Wondering said:


> Ladyofthelake,This to me is not up for your approval.If I wanted to have a debate about a persons lack of sexual desire I can talk to my wife.Key word is Lack of.Your Position on this matter is not in balance with the universe.It does not work.Its disfuctional and it only serves yourself.You make no one else happy with this stance but your self.The one thing I will always wonder about why LD people can not explain where they come from with their thoughts.
> They defend their position on the subject.But can never really put a finger on what went wrong with them.{Like} I am going thur something ,But I don't know what it is.
> Well to end this.I am sorry for your bitterness on this matter.As with my wife I will stay by her side as always I love her very much.I have been married many yrs.And Love life very much.I am just a man that's likes to keep his sperm count down low and enjoy my wife's pretty body as much as I can.


I'm not trying to debate anything with you. I'm trying to explain your wife''s POV. I can list dozens of reasons why your wife could be LD but I don't know her so I don't know which is hers. Or she could have her very own reason. But you are not open to actually *learning* about why. You are just angry that you are not getting what you want from her. You assume there is something wrong with her. There isn't. Not a thing. She is just being true to herself and not putting a fake face on and acting like your w8ore just so you can keep your sperm count down. She sounds like an admirable lady IMO.

"Enjoy my wife's pretty body as much as I can"......that's a pretty offensive statement to make. She is not an object for you to spend your lust on. Not a receptacle for you to fill. She is a human being with inherent dignity and the right to autonomy and integrity but you don't respect that. You only see her as being worth what you can get from her. And she knows this, which likely is part of her LD issue. 
It's HER body. You have no right to it. None whatsoever. The sooner you accept that, the happier you will be.


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

LOTL, congratulations for training your husband to such an extent that he is in complete denial and delusion into believing he's happy with his life with you. Sounds more like a brainwashed lapdog than an equal partner.

"An HD person who sees sex as more important than the feelings and integrity of their spouse is a poor spouse indeed."

See, what you and those like you don't get is that sex is inextricably linked to feelings and expressing love within a committed relationship (not a 20 year old looking to get laid five times a day). They are one and the same. So to most us it's hurtful and offensive to hear that our spouse feels it's a violation of their integrity to have sex WITH THEIR OWN HUSBAND.

If you truly feel this way you should not marry someone whose fundamental beliefs are so different from your own. Go find some emasculated wimp with balls the size of peanuts and sit on the couch and watch Jeopardy.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I call BS on this. There is no one standard for a "fulfilling" marriage. What is fulfilling to me may be onerous or empty to another.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not that. It's the LD has such a self centered viewpoint that they cannot meet needs of their partner that may not necessarily be their own need. I'm talking about LD's who would let the problem go on for years. That's a problem...


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I'm not trying to debate anything with you. I'm trying to explain your wife''s POV.


That's a fail. You can't explain her POV. Only she can. You take a guess or make a theory, but only she knows her POV.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> I can list dozens of reasons why your wife could be LD but I don't know her so I don't know which is hers. Or she could have her very own reason. But you are not open to actually *learning* about why. You are just angry that you are not getting what you want from her. You assume there is something wrong with her. There isn't.
> Not a thing. She is just being true to herself and not putting a fake face on and acting like your w8ore just so you can keep your sperm count down. She sounds like an admirable lady IMO.


While I agree with what you are saying in premise, you can't simply say there is nothing wrong with her. She may have a medical condition, be in need of therapy, councilling, etc. She very well may have something wrong with her. You don't know anything about her other than what the husband has posted here, so you have no means to say she has nothing wrong with her. I'm not saying she does, but I'm not saying she doesn;t either.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> "Enjoy my wife's pretty body as much as I can"......that's a pretty offensive statement to make.


No it's not, not in the context he said it. He loves his wife's body and wants to enjoy it as much as he can. That's two statements, both flattering if anything. 



LadyOfTheLake said:


> She is not an object for you to spend your lust on.


It's his wife. Who should he spend his lust on?



LadyOfTheLake said:


> Not a receptacle for you to fill.


Agreed.



LadyOfTheLake said:


> She is a human being with inherent dignity and the right to autonomy and integrity but you don't respect that. You only see her as being worth what you can get from her. And she knows this, which likely is part of her LD issue.
> It's HER body. You have no right to it. None whatsoever. The sooner you accept that, the happier you will be.


I'd debate the 'you have to no right to her body' part.

While you are technically correct, once again I'll state that in order to even validate the marriage, you must have sex once. That alone gives you some right to the body, at least once. Additionally, while it's not a right, I can't imagine anyone going through a marriage without any physical contact, even kissing, hand holding, etc. He may not have a legally defined 'right' to it, be he has a right to expect it.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> However, giving up sex without the desire for it requires more personal investment than doing the laundry. It is giving of ones body and allowing intimate access to it. When this isn't wanted by the LD it can cause a GREAT deal of distress. The distress leads to resentment, which leads to even less chance of the LD having a desire and it goes round and round.
> 
> Invariably the LD spouse knows the HD spouse wants something from them that they cannot freely give. It likely does stir emotions in the LD, but not the kind of which you speak.
> 
> An HD person who sees sex as more important than the feelings and integrity of their spouse is a poor spouse indeed.


The problem with the argument is that you seem to view feelings of the LD as more important than the feelings of the HD. It's as if you think that the HD simply views the LD as a masturbation machine ... someone focused entirely on the act itself ... as if their only need is to "get their rocks off" and that is their motivation.

You say that it may cause a LD person distress when they are pressured to allow intimate access to their body. That is true and they shouldn't be made to feel that way. On this point, I completely agree with you. 

Now, I am in a sexless marriage. I am HD and my wife is LD and for most of our marriage her LD was the primary reason why we don't have sex. While I do miss the physical act, what creates an emotional response from me ... what I really miss ... IS the intimacy that comes from the physical connection, something I need to maintain an emotional connection with my wife. Most HD men (and women) I see here who are in sexless marriages feel as I do ... invalidated, unwanted, disconnected, distressed. It drags down our self-esteem. A very important part of our lives missing. That's even true of people with moderate or normal sex drives. It doesn't really have anything to do with the actual act. All I need to do is masturbate if I wanted to get my rocks off and that IS how I've dealt with sexual frustration. After all, I can't force her to have sex with me and I don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with me. The sexual act itself isn't what is really important to me ... it is the shared intimacy. 

Just like an HD person has a difficult time understanding the feelings of an LD person, and LD person doesn't understand how this affects someone with a HD.

The problem I have with your argument is that it comes entirely from the perspective of the LD. You empathize with the feelings of the LD person but tell the HD person to just deal with it ... as if it couldn't possibly be equally distressing to the HD person.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> However, giving up sex without the desire for it requires more personal investment than doing the laundry. It is giving of ones body and allowing intimate access to it. When this isn't wanted by the LD it can cause a GREAT deal of distress. The distress leads to resentment, which leads to even less chance of the LD having a desire and it goes round and round.


Distress is an emotion, and I thought you claimed that emotions are only the result of mixing of bodily chemicals and can be controlled?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

NeverAgain12 said:


> LOTL, congratulations for training your husband to such an extent that he is in complete denial and delusion into believing he's happy with his life with you. Sounds more like a brainwashed lapdog than an equal partner.
> 
> "An HD person who sees sex as more important than the feelings and integrity of their spouse is a poor spouse indeed."
> 
> ...


I sometimes joke that I "caught him young and raised him right" but I have never "brainwashed" him. He had a few unrealistic expectations that he needed to shed and I got rid of those with great patience on my part. He and I are very happy together. I'd say out of all of our married friends, we have the calmest, most stable relationship. We don't fight, there's no drama, we get along, there's been no cheating or running about, no drinking....just peace and quiet. Bliss. :smthumbup:


It is a violation of integrity to have sex when you don't want to. I know. I've done it. The mental anguish is real and unrelenting. It affects how you view yourself, your self esteem. How can you see yourself as an individual, an person of worth, if you roll over for someone else's want's when you *really* don't want to? The feelings of self disgust and resentment towards your spouse are very real. How are you supposed to care about them wanting their physical wants met when they don't give a damn about your emotional distress? They are only after tail....all the time.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I can provide my point of view. For me, physical touch and intimacy are how I feel loved. If my husband were to stop doing these things, stop touching me and stop having sex with me, it would make me feel that he didn't love me.

If he decided those things weren't important to him and wasn't willing to participate for me (out of love for me), it would be time to have a discussion about whether we should end the marriage. It would simply be a matter of what we want and need are not compatible and this isn't fair to either of us. 

I know that he would feel the same (and has said so) if I suddenly decided to stop touching and having sex with him.

There is no way that I could wait for years to see if 'maybe' those things would change for him. I love him dearly but that's emotional cruelty at it's highest.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> Distress is an emotion, and I thought you claimed that emotions are only the result of mixing of bodily chemicals and can be controlled?


Emotions are chemical reactions. You can't control what chemicals your body secretes or how they interact. You can only control how you express your reactions to others. 

Distress is an uncomfortable emotion. Feeling it is not pleasant. Even when knowing it is simply caused by the adrenal glands. But we also know that those glands will secrete those chemicals in dangerous situations, causing us to take action to protect ourselves from harm. There is a biological reason for feeling those emotions. But there are social reasons for keeping those feelings to oneself.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It is a violation of integrity to have sex when you don't want to. I know. I've done it. The mental anguish is real and unrelenting. It affects how you view yourself, your self esteem. How can you see yourself as an individual, an person of worth, if you roll over for someone else's want's when you *really* don't want to? The feelings of self disgust and resentment towards your spouse are very real. How are you supposed to care about them wanting their physical wants met when they don't give a damn about your emotional distress? *They are only after tail....all the time*.


Absolutely untrue. You have a very tainted view of a person with a HD ... or even one with a normal drive. As the HD person in my sexless relationship, I can tell you that getting tail is not my motivation. If that were true, I would have long ago cheated or never gotten married in the first place. What you say about how an LD person feels when pressured to have sex they don't want is EXACTLY how an HD person feels when the LD person consistently makes the decision to not want to make that "personal investment". It is unfair to BOTH parties.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Emotions are chemical reactions. You can't control what chemicals your body secretes or how they interact. You can only control how you express your reactions to others.
> 
> Distress is an uncomfortable emotion. Feeling it is not pleasant. Even when knowing it is simply caused by the adrenal glands. But we also know that those glands will secrete those chemicals in dangerous situations, causing us to take action to protect ourselves from harm. There is a biological reason for feeling those emotions. But there are social reasons for keeping those feelings to oneself.


It sounds to me that you and your Husband are LD.Maybe that is why you don't understand how difficult it is to maintain a well balanced relationship when two people are different.You are so wrong about the enjoyment one can receive from others body.Yes I Love my Wife.also I love to make love to her.Usually its for recreational reasons,Comfort,Desire,Emotional Bonding,Its all very simple.You LD people take it out of context.It was all designed for pleasure in mind. I will say one thing to you if you were dating your POV would not get you another date with the same guy.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> The problem with the argument is that you seem to view feelings of the LD as more important than the feelings of the HD. It's as if you think that the HD simply views the LD as a masturbation machine ... someone focused entirely on the act itself ... as if their only need is to "get their rocks off" and that is their motivation.


I wouldn't say the feelings of the LD are more important, but I think they are more legitimate. Since sexual desire can be controlled to the point of non existence, the onus in the standoff situation would be for the HD to control their desires since the LD is incapable of giving in to them. LD's can't change who or what they are and they shouldn't have to. There is nothing wrong with not wanting sex. It is not a morbidity. 
HD's CAN change, they just don't want to give up sex. They won't lose anything if they do, it won't affect them in any negative way at all. But they just won't give up the "prize" they think they are entitled to. 



> You say that it may cause a LD person distress when they are pressured to allow intimate access to their body. *That is true and they shouldn't be made to feel that way. On this point, I completely agree with you. *


If you know this, then what is the problem? You know what you could be doing to her, yet you still want to pressure her into sex? According to your OP, you have withdrawn affection and conversation in order to punish her for not being your plaything. So you know it could be distressing to her, you don't think anyone should be made to feel that way.....then you turn around and do that to your wife? WTH man?



> Now, I am in a sexless marriage. I am HD and my wife is LD and for most of our marriage her LD was the primary reason why we don't have sex. While I do miss the physical act, what creates an emotional response from me ... what I really miss ... IS the intimacy that comes from the physical connection, something I need to maintain an emotional connection with my wife. Most HD men (and women) I see here who are in sexless marriages feel as I do ..*. invalidated, unwanted, disconnected, distressed. It drags down our self-esteem. A very important part of our lives missing. That's even true of people with moderate or normal sex drives. It doesn't really have anything to do with the actual act*. All I need to do is masturbate if I wanted to get my rocks off and that IS how I've dealt with sexual frustration. After all, I can't force her to have sex with me and I don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with me. The sexual act itself isn't what is really important to me ... it is the shared intimacy.


The bolded part is what does not make sense. What is it about sex that makes you feel validated, wanted, secure, and esteemed? It is just a physical act that gives an orgasm. You can have mind blowing sex with people you hate.....having sex with someone does not denote any feelings towards that person. Remember, its just body parts rubbing together, creating a release of feel good hormones. 

Your wife accepts you and validates you by being with you every single day. She is with you when you are grumpy and miserable, when you are sick, when you haven't showered and when your mother is giving her a hard time. She picks up your dirty socks and washes your underwear, she buys you your favourite food and cooks you a special meal. She reminds you to make your Dr appt because she is worried about that cough and sets out your vitamins and makes you take a walk with her so you don't get high blood pressure. She worries when you don't call and get's scared when you are driving in a snowstorm. She yells at you for texting and driving and tells you you need to take a vacation and get away for awhile. She LOVES YOU. Every day. THAT is marriage. THAT is validation. That is how she shows how much you mean to her. Not by lying on her back, counting ceiling tiles and wishing your dong would fall off. 




> The problem I have with your argument is that it comes entirely from the perspective of the LD. You empathize with the feelings of the LD person but tell the HD person to just deal with it ... as if it couldn't possibly be equally distressing to the HD person.


HD's are only distressed if they choose to be. If they looked at sex as a minor want and not a need and just settled down into the business of living, they'd be much more content. The power for their own contentment lies within them. They give their own power away by insisting on something they cannot have from their LD spouse.


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I sometimes joke that I "caught him young and raised him right" but I have never "brainwashed" him. He had a few unrealistic expectations that he needed to shed and I got rid of those with great patience on my part. He and I are very happy together. I'd say out of all of our married friends, we have the calmest, most stable relationship. We don't fight, there's no drama, we get along, there's been no cheating or running about, no drinking....just peace and quiet. Bliss. :smthumbup:
> 
> 
> It is a violation of integrity to have sex when you don't want to. I know. I've done it. The mental anguish is real and unrelenting. It affects how you view yourself, your self esteem. How can you see yourself as an individual, an person of worth, if you roll over for someone else's want's when you *really* don't want to? The feelings of self disgust and resentment towards your spouse are very real. How are you supposed to care about them wanting their physical wants met when they don't give a damn about your emotional distress? They are only after tail....all the time.


Thanks for validating my point. So it's a joking matter that you were able to manipulate him at a young age to conform to your thinking on how this relationship will work. You realigned his expectations and shed them from him. In the interest of equality of meeting his needs, which ridiculous expectations of yours did he shed by ultimatum in the manner that you took with him?

So you feel violated and full of mental anguish, but his anguish doesn't matter, because you taught him to suppress such evil thoughts and actions. You know, like being a normal man.

I find the whole tone and theme of your response despicable, right through to the last sentence of men only wanting tail. Very offensive.

Read TCSRedhead's reply if you want to hear what comes from a normal woman.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> HD's CAN change, they just don't want to give up sex. They won't lose anything if they do, it won't affect them in any negative way at all. But they just won't give up the "prize" they think they are entitled to.


This is out of line and borderline pathological. Why you feel it necessary to group an entire population into a stereotyped whole whom you can then dismiss is a topic for you and your counselor. It's no different than homophobia or racism, it's wrong, and you need to knock it off.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Emotions are chemical reactions. You can't control what chemicals your body secretes or how they interact. You can only control how you express your reactions to others.
> 
> Distress is an uncomfortable emotion. Feeling it is not pleasant. Even when knowing it is simply caused by the adrenal glands. But we also know that those glands will secrete those chemicals in dangerous situations, causing us to take action to protect ourselves from harm. There is a biological reason for feeling those emotions. But there are social reasons for keeping those feelings to oneself.


So I'm confused. 

Can you or can't you control the distress emotion?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

NeverAgain12 said:


> Thanks for validating my point. So it's a joking matter that you were able to manipulate him at a young age to conform to your thinking on how this relationship will work. You realigned his expectations and shed them from him. In the interest of equality of meeting his needs, which ridiculous expectations of yours did he shed by ultimatum in the manner that you took with him?


I didn't manipulate him. We married by joint consent at a very young age, although I am a little bit older in years and a fair bit older in experience. The first year of marriage was extremely difficult as we both wanted different things and we both have strong personalities. He wanted sex all.the.time. I was repulsed and furious and several times told him that if I'd known that marriage was going to be all about sex, I'd never have married him. I was very very disappointed in his interest in sex, I had expected much better from him. Well, hoped for better. My mother had "the talk" with me, but I had refused to believe that the man *I* chose would be so base. I was wrong of course. But I made it perfectly clear that I wouldn't be used like that. I was not his w*ore. It took awhile, I had not yet honed my skills at managing a man, but I finally got through to him. The LD/HD thing was always an issue, but I could get up to 6 weeks in between giving in. As sex was always very painful for me, this worked well for me. Eventually we worked out a once a week arrangement. It suited neither of us but it was the best we could do. 



> So you feel violated and full of mental anguish, but his anguish doesn't matter, because you taught him to suppress such evil thoughts and actions. You know, like being a normal man.


His own anguish was his own fault. He could have realized I wasn't going to give in to him and knew what was best, and just stopped being so focused on getting sex from me. He surely knew me well enough by then to know there was no point in holding out hope that I would ever give in. Had he just stopped wanting it, he'd have been fine. Any anguish he went through is on his own shoulders. I do feel bad that our first years together were so rough, but on the other hand, if he'd just listened when I told him....we could have skipped all that. 




> I find the whole tone and theme of your response despicable, right through to the last sentence of men only wanting tail. Very offensive.
> 
> Read TCSRedhead's reply if you want to hear what comes from a normal woman.


I understand that I make people here angry. I am fine with that. It does not bother me so feel free to unload if you must. I know that there is much frustration on the other side of the keyboard that is being directed at me because I am very vocal about LD. I am not afraid of this. 

I think you would be very hard pressed to find an LD who thinks that HD's AREN'T just after tail. They certainly present themselves as hopeless and helpless pleasure seekers.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> So I'm confused.
> 
> Can you or can't you control the distress emotion?


I thought I was quite clear. 


You cannot control the creation and behaviour of the chemicals that create the feelings of emotion.


You can control your own behaviour in reaction to the stimulus of the feeling the emotion creates. 

I can't stop my body from creating the chemicals that make me feel distressed. 


I can control my behaviour so no one else need know that I am feeling that emotion.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

*If you know this, then what is the problem? You know what you could be doing to her, yet you still want to pressure her into sex? According to your OP, you have withdrawn affection and conversation in order to punish her for not being your plaything. So you know it could be distressing to her, you don't think anyone should be made to feel that way.....then you turn around and do that to your wife? WTH man?*

Where do you get that I have withdrawn affection and conversation in order to punish her? Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, affection and communication is what I'm trying so hard to get back in our marriage ... it is literally been my focus for quite a while ... and SHE is the one who is not at the same place I am. I literally have calendars where I keep track of the affection that I show her on a daily basis. Not sex ... just kissing, hugging and holding hands. We had gotten to a place where that never happened (and it had nothing to do with punishing her) and I am making every effort to get that back. The calendar is to make sure that I am paying attention to what is important ... a reminder that if at the end of the day, I've let life get in the way, I make sure I show her the affection she needs. 

I hardly consider her my plaything. That thought process is obnoxious.

I've had sex with her 6 times in the last 5 years. If that is pressuring her into sex then I might as well simply stay celibate my entire life. The statement I've made to her is that intimacy and communication are two things that I require in a marriage. Not having those are dealbreakers and those are the two things we need to work on. Maybe you consider that pressure but it had to be said. It starts with communication. In the meantime, if she wants to have sex then great but otherwise I make no unwanted moves on her.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

*The bolded part is what does not make sense. What is it about sex that makes you feel validated, wanted, secure, and esteemed? It is just a physical act that gives an orgasm. You can have mind blowing sex with people you hate.....having sex with someone does not denote any feelings towards that person. Remember, its just body parts rubbing together, creating a release of feel good hormones.

Your wife accepts you and validates you by being with you every single day. She is with you when you are grumpy and miserable, when you are sick, when you haven't showered and when your mother is giving her a hard time. She picks up your dirty socks and washes your underwear, she buys you your favourite food and cooks you a special meal. She reminds you to make your Dr appt because she is worried about that cough and sets out your vitamins and makes you take a walk with her so you don't get high blood pressure. She worries when you don't call and get's scared when you are driving in a snowstorm. She yells at you for texting and driving and tells you you need to take a vacation and get away for awhile. She LOVES YOU. Every day. THAT is marriage. THAT is validation. That is how she hows how much you mean to her. Not by lying on her back, counting ceiling tiles and wishing your dong would fall off. *

That is EXACTLY the problem with your argument. You are viewing this entirely from the perspective of an LD person and have no understanding of the viewpoint of an HD person. You view sex as simply "grinding body parts" I do not ... I view it as an act of intimacy, one that builds on and sustains an emotional connection. It is absolutely a part of a healthy marriage ... to ME.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I wouldn't say the feelings of the LD are more important, but I think they are more legitimate. Since sexual desire can be controlled to the point of non existence, the onus in the standoff situation would be for the HD to control their desires since the LD is incapable of giving in to them. LD's can't change who or what they are and they shouldn't have to. There is nothing wrong with not wanting sex. It is not a morbidity.
> HD's CAN change, they just don't want to give up sex. They won't lose anything if they do, it won't affect them in any negative way at all. But they just won't give up the "prize" they think they are entitled to.
> 
> 
> ...


That is marriage? 

My mother used to do those things for me. I wasn't married to her.

What is the difference between a marriage and simply being best friends? I have had a few very close friendships with males in my life. These are guys that I would give the shirt off my back for. These are guys that I confided in ... who helped me through difficult times. I can honestly say that I love them. Some of these guys I haven't seen for years but if I saw them today, it would be like nothing changed. What's the difference between that and the marriage you described? The difference is that I am not sexually attracted to men. I also have that relationship with my wife but I AM sexually attracted to her (sort of, lol ... but I mean as a woman). We can share a level of intimacy that I do not have with my male best friends. It is what brought us together in the first place. That intimacy ... bonding ... strengthens our emotional connection in a way that I cannot have with my male friends. Without it, we're just buds.

btw ... I wash my underwear and pickup my dirty socks ... and I do the grocery shopping. In fact, she does very little for me at all ... and if she wanted to take a walk every once in awhile, she wouldn't weigh 330lbs.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> That is marriage?
> 
> My mother used to do those things for me. I wasn't married to her.


You're arguing with someone who apparently believes the proper role of a wife is to both mother and mold her husband into the man he should be by removal of those aspects of his personality which are undesirable. 

I can't imagine what I would do if I was married to someone who held me and my apparent banality in such low esteem, but I don't think sitting idly by and allowing it would be an option.

The hubris here has gotten nauseating.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Just Wondering said:


> .But there must be a greater value she gets from it to allow it to happen.
> As sex go's I live in her world.She has control of it.Its hers to offer.


Exactly. It is all about power and control.

The fact you have the resident control freak going ballistic in this thread is an excellent demonstration of the pathology involved.

You tried to out-manipulate a manipulator. She may not be in general, but sex is just such an ancient power tactic it isn't like your wife has discovered something new.

A person has to try the cooperative approach first, where you simply state the problem. If she does not acknowledge it and agree to work through it then you have to give her choices with enforceable consequences.

Telling her you will never leave her is telling her she does not have to change.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Where do you get that I have withdrawn affection and conversation in order to punish her? Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, affection and communication is what I'm trying so hard to get back in our marriage ... it is literally been my focus for quite a while ... and SHE is the one who is not at the same place I am. I literally have calendars where I keep track of the affection that I show her on a daily basis. Not sex ... just kissing, hugging and holding hands. We had gotten to a place where that never happened (and it had nothing to do with punishing her) and I am making every effort to get that back. The calendar is to make sure that I am paying attention to what is important ... a reminder that if at the end of the day, I've let life get in the way, I make sure I show her the affection she needs.


From your original post


> *Resently I have removed all cuddling,affection,limit conversation*,Really trying to create the roommate relationship that works for her.I raised the white flag and surrender to her lack of sexual desire.But I try to find peace within with it.I just wonder why is it so important to her _.Why do these types of people trade the wonderful life they could have,For their own sake_


The statement in bold is your passive aggressive attempt at punishing her for not rolling over for you. "Well she won't play ball so I'm just going to sit here and eat worms, poor me". You aren't surrendering, you are manipulating. 

The statement in italics is what got my back up towards you. Why do you think sex will make her life wonderful? Because it'll make you happy and a happy you will make her life just sooooo much more fulfilling? That is crap. If sex made her life better, she'd have sex. I assume she's a normally intelligent human who can discern causation and correlation.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> What is the difference between a marriage and simply being best friends? I have had a few very close friendships with males in my life. These are guys that I would give the shirt off my back and if she wanted to take a walk every once in awhile, she wouldn't weigh 330lbs.


Well that is an interesting tidbit. 330lbs is a lot. Does she have a poor self image? Poor self esteem? Is she ashamed of her appearance? Could that be the root of her problem or is her weight a shield for deeper problems? Perhaps she feels if she is big and unattractive enough, you will no longer see her as sexually desirable, ending the problems between you. That, however, is taking things to extremes. I'm just thinking off the cuff here. 

The difference between marriage and best friends is commitment. A life long commitment to be there no matter what. Friends come and go, a marriage mate is supposed to be forever. I have friends, none of whom I would live with or have kids with or spend day in and day out with. My husband is my very best friend and if all my other friends drifted away, I'd be fine because I'd still have *him*. It's kind of like the difference between Facebook friends and real life friends. I have scads of fb friends and Twitter followers but they don't matter like a real in the flesh friend. Just as friends don't matter compared to a marriage mate. It's all varying degrees


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> The difference between marriage and best friends is commitment.


And sex. I don't have sex with any of my friends. That's why they're friends and not, say, spouses.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> That is marriage?
> 
> My mother used to do those things for me. I wasn't married to her.
> 
> ...


You guys could do a 1 hr walk and talk and bond every day, and she could make a few meal rules and that will be all she really needs to do.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I think you would be very hard pressed to find an LD who thinks that HD's AREN'T just after tail. They certainly present themselves as hopeless and helpless pleasure seekers.


Despite how offensive this is objectively, I have to laugh because of what an absurd charicature you have become. 

I'm glad to finally see some of the wretched details of your marriage coming out because it seemed so obvious it had to be so. 

It isn't just the LD/HD thing you have such raving hatred over. But this might explain some of the hatred for other women - the fact they actually like sex puts them way, way, way out in front insofar as competition. Might as well just be another man if you are a sexless woman.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Despite how offensive this is objectively, I have to laugh because of what an absurd charicature you have become.
> 
> I'm glad to finally see some of the wretched details of your marriage coming out because it seemed so obvious it had to be so.
> 
> It isn't just the LD/HD thing you have such raving hatred over. But this might explain some of the hatred for other women - the fact they actually like sex puts them way, way, way out in front insofar as competition. Might as well just be another man if you are a sexless woman.


Competition for what? I'm already married, what do I need to compete with anyone for? I married right out of school...I never competed. Why would I?

I don't hate other women, not all of them. I pity a lot of them for being so weak. But it's not their fault. Lack of proper father figures, poor societal values, over exposure to sex, abuses....so many reasons many women have become so weak. It's a societal problem though, not a gender issue. And I don't hate them for that. I feel helpless and sad and sometimes angry for them. I've had several former battered women as friends and offered my home as refuge for them when they needed it. I didn't hate them....but I sure as hell hated their weakness in getting with and staying with such evil men. So you see....there is a difference...


My dominant traits are more masculine, for sure. I prefer my male friends to female ones. Less drama. But I understand your need to vilify me Wiser. I really do. I know the only way you can understand my position is to see it coming from someone you hate. I don't think you'd hate me if you really knew me, but online I represent all that you do hate about the LD situation and I am ok with that.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> From your original post
> 
> The statement in bold is your passive aggressive attempt at punishing her for not rolling over for you. "Well she won't play ball so I'm just going to sit here and eat worms, poor me". You aren't surrendering, you are manipulating.
> 
> The statement in italics is what got my back up towards you. Why do you think sex will make her life wonderful? Because it'll make you happy and a happy you will make her life just sooooo much more fulfilling? That is crap. If sex made her life better, she'd have sex. I assume she's a normally intelligent human who can discern causation and correlation.


Ha! That wasn't my post


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The really sad part is that she thinks she knows what love is. She actually believes she feels it. And she believes her husband doesn't mind getting short changed, because he doesn't complain.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I wanted to comment to the OP, but then got interested in the LD HD aspect.

I was a HD woman all of my adult life. So was my H when we got married. That wore off, and he's been pretty much no drive for the past 2 years. 

for me, it's a dealbreaker. I've told my H how I feel. Without it, it's just a friendship. He replied that it simply wasn't important to him and he's used the forest for the trees argument, said very similar things about it's not the whole definition of a marriage.

2 years later, he is finding out that the end result is I'm no longer emotionally attached to him. I told him this would happen. And I have zero interest in him romantically, sexually, or otherwise. 

So I wonder how often the dynamics change the HD partner into LD, and those relationships are the ones that can continue on for years to come? 

I do wonder why it made me completely detach, while others are able to just adjust themselves to LD or find an alternative way to feel their needs are met? Not that one way is better than the other, it's a personal choice, no judgement either side.

OP, my no drive husband has stated in MC that he is satisfied with lots of hugging, kissing, and a whole bunch of time spent together. He simply says he doesn't need anything more. 
How can I argue with that? I can only take it for the truth and say that it does not align with what I want. I feel strongly inclined on a daily basis to NOT provide the affection he says is all he needs. Because that defines a relationship, for him. And we don't have one. My boundaries, not being cruel.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"The really sad part is that she thinks she knows what love is. She actually believes she feels it. And she believes her husband doesn't mind getting short changed, because he doesn't complain."


Again, this is a symptom of Asperger's. If people would read Lady's posts through that lens, they might make a bit more sense.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> The difference between marriage and best friends is commitment. A life long commitment to be there no matter what. Friends come and go, a marriage mate is supposed to be forever. I have friends, none of whom I would live with or have kids with or spend day in and day out with. My husband is my very best friend and if all my other friends drifted away, I'd be fine because I'd still have *him*. It's kind of like the difference between Facebook friends and real life friends. I have scads of fb friends and Twitter followers but they don't matter like a real in the flesh friend. Just as friends don't matter compared to a marriage mate. It's all varying degrees


I have that commitment with my closest friends. I have known my "BFF" for 35 years ... and I am there for him and have been there for him through thick and thin. Even though we now live many states away, I would be there immediately if he asked. The difference is a piece of paper and the type of relationship that could only be had between man and woman ... or to be politically correct ... sexual partners. Now, without the physical intimacy, I could remain "married" to my wife ... but there would be little difference between that relationship and being roommies with my best friend.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "The really sad part is that she thinks she knows what love is. She actually believes she feels it. And she believes her husband doesn't mind getting short changed, because he doesn't complain."
> 
> 
> Again, this is a symptom of Asperger's. If people would read Lady's posts through that lens, they might make a bit more sense.


I agree. Still think its sad. I'm sure you're right though (regarding aspergers).


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> You guys could do a 1 hr walk and talk and bond every day, and she could make a few meal rules and that will be all she really needs to do.


We could ... if that is what she wanted. It is something I've encouraged for years.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ha! That wasn't my post


So sorry!!! I got the user names mixed up.  I thought you were the author of the thread.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

"I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested" Sheldon Cooper


LOL, I've been tested. I'm totally normal, other than registering slightly on the autism spectrum. I was told I'm not special enough to be Aspie by an Asperger's specialist 
I've been tested for everything from schizophrenia to multiple personality disorder. I'm either as right as rain or a totally unique and un-label-able specimen. You pick


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I wouldn't say the feelings of the LD are more important, but I think they are more legitimate. Since sexual desire can be controlled to the point of non existence, the onus in the standoff situation would be for the HD to control their desires since the LD is incapable of giving in to them. LD's can't change who or what they are and they shouldn't have to. There is nothing wrong with not wanting sex. It is not a morbidity.
> HD's CAN change, they just don't want to give up sex. They won't lose anything if they do, it won't affect them in any negative way at all. But they just won't give up the "prize" they think they are entitled to.
> 
> 
> ...


Well, if you want to talk about validation then let's talk about it. Now, I don't seek validation through sex; in my younger years maybe but that is certainly not the case now. However, I am a sexual being. It is a significant part of me. It is why I have desire, testosterone, a penis and morning erections. Yet, you immediately attempt to invalidate me, telling me that my sexuality is inconsequential ... it is minor ... that I need to suppress it and if I do suppress it, I will be just as happy ... maybe even more because I will be more focused on "life". To me, it is not all that life has to offer but it is part of me ... it is part of "life". What you are saying is that my feelings about my sexuality and how important it is to me is wrong and in order to be happy within my marriage I need to remove that part of me. That is invalidation right there.

Secondly, you point out that for an LD, it causes distress to be pressured to give up the most intimate part of your self. Isn't that intimacy part of marriage? When I am willing to give up that part of myself to my wife but she is not willing to give up that part of herself to me, isn't that invalidating? She expects me to be there for her through thick and thin ... to see her at her worst and still love her ... to support her in every way possible until the day we die ... and yet, she doesn't want to share the most intimate part of herself with me? Hmmm.....


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

LOTL,

OK, so hubby wanted sex in the first year & you finally convinced him that it's not what he wanted, after all. 

So, what would you say he gets out of the relationship that he couldn't get with a platonic friend? What was the magic bullet that convinced him it was in his best interest to remain in a sexless marriage?

I'm glad you have found a partner willing to bend to your level of needs/desires. I do think it is wrong to project your relationship on others and declare that HD people are simply out their for their own selfish pleasure and nothing else.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> So sorry!!! I got the user names mixed up.  I thought you were the author of the thread.


No problem. No, I am "just some guy who" is struggling in a sexless marriage so I thought I'd chime in.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I prefer my male friends to female ones. Less drama.


Hilarious. Contender for forum drama queen does not like drama. 



> My dominant traits are more masculine, for sure.


Being offensive is not masculine, nor is being a control freak. You're a woman with some severe issues. 

My wife caught over 400 lbs of salmon last year and doesn't pretend like holding some dinky little rod makes her a she-man. She uses a net, tied off to a cliff with climbing gear in a river that kills people every year. Got a late start on MMA but gaining on it, and same thing there - no pretense about being "masculine" because of it. You are deeply confused about things and it sounds like it stems from some kind of personality disorder. 




> I don't hate other women, not all of them. I pity a lot of them for being so weak. But it's not their fault. Lack of proper father figures, poor societal values, over exposure to sex, abuses....so many reasons many women have become so weak. It's a societal problem though, not a gender issue. And I don't hate them for that. I feel helpless and sad and sometimes angry for them. I've had several former battered women as friends and offered my home as refuge for them when they needed it. I didn't hate them....but I sure as hell hated their weakness in getting with and staying with such evil men. So you see....there is a difference...


This obsession is bizarre. Most of us don't have pity, hatred, spite, or any emotions at all about males or females in general. 




> I don't think you'd hate me if you really knew me.


That's what I hear from many people who relentlessly post offensive stuff and are in constant attack mode. It isn't really them doing the typing I guess.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> "I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested" Sheldon Cooper
> 
> 
> LOL, I've been tested. I'm totally normal, other than registering slightly on the autism spectrum. I was told I'm not special enough to be Aspie by an Asperger's specialist
> I've been tested for everything from schizophrenia to multiple personality disorder. I'm either as right as rain or a totally unique and un-label-able specimen. You pick


Why all the testing? What brought it on? I think you're a completely normal Vulcan. 

_Slight_ Hijack. 

But, promise to return to our regular scheduled programming asap. Curious...


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> My dominant traits are more masculine, for sure. I prefer my male friends to female ones. Less drama. But I understand your need to vilify me Wiser. I really do. I know the only way you can understand my position is to see it coming from someone you hate. I don't think you'd hate me if you really knew me, but online I represent all that you do hate about the LD situation and I am ok with that.


Well, I for one am not trying to vilify you. I think your perspective is an important part of the discussion and helps me understand my LD wife a little better. While I may disagree with your point of view, I do appreciate your contribution to the discussion.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, if you want to talk about validation then let's talk about it. Now, I don't seek validation through sex; in my younger years maybe but that is certainly not the case now. However, I am a sexual being. It is a significant part of me. It is why I have desire, testosterone, a penis and morning erections. Yet, you immediately attempt to invalidate me, telling me that my sexuality is inconsequential ... it is minor ... that I need to suppress it and if I do suppress it, I will be just as happy ... maybe even more because I will be more focused on "life". To me, it is not all that life has to offer but it is part of me ... it is part of "life". What you are saying is that my feelings about my sexuality and how important it is to me is wrong and in order to be happy within my marriage I need to remove that part of me. That is invalidation right there.
> 
> Secondly, you point out that for an LD, it causes distress to be pressured to give up the most intimate part of your self. Isn't that intimacy part of marriage? When I am willing to give up that part of myself to my wife but she is not willing to give up that part of herself to me, isn't that invalidating? She expects me to be there for her through thick and thin ... to see her at her worst and still love her ... to support her in every way possible until the day we die ... and yet, she doesn't want to share the most intimate part of herself with me? Hmmm.....


What is validation? Is it seeking approval orr acceptance from someone else? That is my take on it. Which is why I don't understand the search for it. Tell me honestly, why do you, JustSomeGuy, need your wife to validate you? I'm being honest here. Do you not have a sense of your own worth, your own place in the world? Do you need someone to accept you in order to feel acceptable? Or is it something else? I don't understand searching for validation from someone else. How can anyone else judge your worth? You are the only one fit to make that decision. I can't invalidate you. I can only tell you that marriage without sexulity is very possible and fulfilling and is most definitely a worthy choice when contending with serious LD.

Her most intimate part is hers to share, or not, as she sees fit. It has nothing to do with you, that she doesn't desire sex. Its her issue and she has chosen to live her life this way. Your life will be more comfortable if you follow her lead. JMO
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Good Lord does this do some explaining:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/71175-confession-former-ld-wife.html

OP - observe how this poster was so admittedly manipulative and controlling of men, being such a tease before marriage to do so, and then after marriage the old bait-and-switch.

The incredibly bizarre view of sex expressed there - some kind of sick delusion about sex being about men dominating and taking something from women... the complete inabliity to "wrap her head around" people needing each other emotionally... the horrible childhood/father relation. (Lecturing other women about not having appropriate role models!)

Just so much sickness there - sexless marriage for most of ten years - all coming down to a struggle for control. 

The one thing I have learned about manipulative, controlling people though is to never buy into their stories about how they had no idea what they were or are doing. There is nobody who knows better. The feigning of ignorance is part and parcel of the whole game. 

If they said honestly that they can see how much pain and suffering they are causing, and acknowledged their partner's needs were (duh) important in marriage - that's the end of it. They have to act. So the pretense of not understanding is important to perpetuating their exercise of control and keeping their partner down.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> What is validation? Is it seeking approval orr acceptance from someone else? That is my take on it. Which is why I don't understand the search for it. Tell me honestly, why do you, JustSomeGuy, need your wife to validate you? I'm being honest here. Do you not have a sense of your own worth, your own place in the world? Do you need someone to accept you in order to feel acceptable? Or is it something else? I don't understand searching for validation from someone else. How can anyone else judge your worth? You are the only one fit to make that decision. I can't invalidate you. I can only tell you that marriage without sexulity is very possible and fulfilling and is most definitely a worthy choice when contending with serious LD.
> 
> *Her most intimate part is hers to share, or not, as she sees fit. It has nothing to do with you, that she doesn't desire sex. Its her issue and she has chosen to live her life this way. Your life will be more comfortable if you follow her lead. JMO*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't say that you invalidated me, but your argument is that my viewpoint is invalid. It the same with my wife. I don't need her to validate me. I don't need sex to feel valid. However, your insistence ... her insistence ... that sex ... specifically my sexuality ... is not important is invalidating. What I do need from her that I do not need from you is acceptance. In fact, acceptance is very important in a marriage, more important than physical intimacy. Invalidating who I am (a sexual being) and what is important to me is not acceptance. 

*Her most intimate part is hers to share, or not, as she sees fit.* Absolutely, I agree and I would not take that from her. That does not mean it isn't a dealbreaker for me. It does not mean that I have to accept that and live my life that way. If she is uncomfortable ... she does not trust me enough ... to expose the most intimate part of herself with me and conversely allow me to share the most intimate part of me then we are just friends; then she is my sister and not my wife. 

Again, you are telling me that giving up who I am as a human being ... any part of it ... will make everything ok. No marriage counselor who is good at what they do will agree to that. If what I am is broken then I need to fix it but you cannot convince me that being a sexual being is broken.

I don't need validation because ... as my daughter says about me, "he's a grown up man" lol


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> What is validation? Is it seeking approval orr acceptance from someone else? That is my take on it. Which is why I don't understand the search for it. Tell me honestly, why do you, JustSomeGuy, need your wife to validate you? I'm being honest here. Do you not have a sense of your own worth, your own place in the world? Do you need someone to accept you in order to feel acceptable? Or is it something else? I don't understand searching for validation from someone else. How can anyone else judge your worth? You are the only one fit to make that decision. I can't invalidate you. I can only tell you that *marriage without sexulity is very possible and fulfilling and is most definitely a worthy choice when contending with serious LD.*
> 
> Her most intimate part is hers to share, or not, as she sees fit. It has nothing to do with you, that she doesn't desire sex. Its her issue and she has chosen to live her life this way. *Your life will be more comfortable if you follow her lead.* JMO
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Marriage without sexuality sure is possible but it can only be a worthy choice of both people choose it to be that way. It certainly is not a fulfilling marriage for the one that wants to share intimacy and have a good sex life. 

And to say that his life will be more comfortable if he follows her lead shows a great lack of understanding of how life works. What it really means that life will be more comfortable for the one that gets their own way, the selfish one in other words.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Sex isn't a basic need. Food, water, shelter, clothing, security....those are basic needs. Sex isn't even on the radar when it comes to human needs. It is a want, pure and simple. A desire....hence the terms "HD and LD". Humans are wired to search out pleasure, we are inherent hedonists. Sex fills that role, and apparently some sort of mystic bonding juju as well. But it is utterly irrelevant as a need.
> 
> As for love not causing suffering, is that only true so long as it's not the HD person suffering? Is it ok if the LD person is suffering through unwanted and undesired amorous onslaughts? As long as the HD is getting his or her rocks off, it doesn't matter how the LD suffers, does it? Because it's sex, and sex is wonderful and everyone should want sex and HD's are just doing what is best for the relationship, right?:scratchhead:



For normally functioning homosapiens, sex is a basic human need. No one chooses to have sexual urges. That drive is embedded in normally functioning life forms to insure survival of the species. Do you think men attach themselves to women because they just love to walk around Bed, Bath, and Beyond or because they love watching The Lifetime Channel? Maybe because they desire to associate with someone who will point out their many deficiencies? Sexual attraction makes people do all sorts of goofy, irrational things. By any logical reasoning, marriage is a rotten deal for the average male. Logic doesn't get to make some decisions because most of us have been blessed with a sex drive that overides rational thought. 
Sorry if a LD person feels put upon but they willfully entered into a marriage contract as a consenting adult. There was no escape clause such as "if I happen to feel like it". A man may not feel giddy thrilled about going to work every day but if he signs a mortgage he has agreed to pay regardless of how he feels. Either your promise has credibility or it doesn't. A promise to do what you wish only on the days you happen to feel like it isn't a real promise. It isn't a commitment. It isn't worth the breath it takes to whisper it. Any common street walker could give me that level of commitment. If you decide to make a child, you decide to feed it when it's hungry...not when you happen to feel hunger or when you think the baby's hunger amounts to a legitimate need. If you decide to be a wife, you decide that you will have sex with one particular man. If he agrees to only have sex with you, it's implied that you will take care of his objectively reasonable needs. If you don't wish to, you have ceased to be a wife and you have created some strange relationship he never agreed to. You have the option of fixing your LD or taking a walk and freeing up a slot for a woman who actually can and will do as she promised.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

So if the LD gives in and the HD gets their way, does that make the HD the selfish one?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> For normally functioning homosapiens, sex is a basic human need. No one chooses to have sexual urges. That drive is embedded in normally functioning life forms to insure survival of the species. Do you think men attach themselves to women because they just love to walk around Bed, Bath, and Beyond or because they love watching The Lifetime Channel? Maybe because they desire to associate with someone who will point out their many deficiencies? Sexual attraction makes people do all sorts of goofy, irrational things. By any logical reasoning, marriage is a rotten deal for the average male. Logic doesn't get to make some decisions because most of us have been blessed with a sex drive that overides rational thought.
> Sorry if a LD person feels put upon but they willfully entered into a marriage contract as a consenting adult. There was no escape clause such as "if I happen to feel like it". A man may not feel giddy thrilled about going to work every day but if he signs a mortgage he has agreed to pay regardless of how he feels. Either your promise has credibility or it doesn't. A promise to do what you wish only on the days you happen to feel like it isn't a real promise. It isn't a commitment. It isn't worth the breath it takes to whisper it. Any common street walker could give me that level of commitment. If you decide to make a child, you decide to feed it when it's hungry...not when you happen to feel hunger or when you think the baby's hunger amounts to a legitimate need. If you decide to be a wife, you decide that you will have sex with one particular man. If he agrees to only have sex with you, it's implied that you will take care of his objectively reasonable needs. If you don't wish to, you have ceased to be a wife and you have created some strange relationship he never agreed to. You have the option of fixing your LD or taking a walk and freeing up a slot for a woman who actually can and will do as she promised.


Well I don't know about you but there was nothing in my marriage vows about being open to his sexual beck and call. Not at all. Something in there about better or worse, sickness and health, death do us part. Private w*ore? Nope...pretty sure I would have noticed that. (I removed the "obey" FWIW). I didn't promise to do anything that I didn't want to do and neither did he. I didn't want to have sex, so I didn't. I broke no promise. I promised to stay with him and I have and will. No slot openings here 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LOTL, I have tried, in other threads, to give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll admit, sometimes I haven't succeeded. But there have been times when I have "liked" your posts... because they actually made sense. But the posts you have been making in this thread... no. Now, I'll give you one thing. Every so often, you MIGHT throw in a nugget of truth. But for the most part, your posts in this thread have been rather insulting. Not just to the men, but to some women as well. I've taken some that really got me riled, but I will try to remain as civil as possible when addressing them. Others, it's not so much that they got me riled up as I felt confused by them. Nonetheless, the words in bold are yours, LOTL, and they were very caustic, IMO.

*"As long as the HD is getting his or her rocks off, it doesn't matter how the LD suffers"*

Turn that around. 'As long as the LD doesn't have to have sex with his/her spouse, it doesn't matter how much the HD suffers.'

*"I have never "brainwashed" him. He had a few unrealistic expectations that he needed to shed and I got rid of those with great patience on my part."*

Really? You didn't "brainwash" him? But he *had* to shed "unrealistic expectations"? Unrealistic for whom? You? Or him? 

*"LD's can't change who or what they are and they shouldn't have to. HD's CAN change, they just don't want to give up sex."*

No, LD's can change as well. It has happened. But those who don't WANT to change, choose so for one reason: sex isn't important TO THEM. It doesn't mean it isn't important for everyone, only for THEM.And some HD's DO change. Their actual DRIVE changes.Not because they are married to LD's who refuse sex, but for other reasons. My husband's reason was medical. And now? I'm WISHING we could go UP to once a week! 

*"Not by lying on her back, counting ceiling tiles and wishing your dong would fall off."*

This one is very offensive. Even when my drive was much lower than my husband's, I NEVER once felt that way about sex with him. EVER!

*"I didn't manipulate him...He wanted sex all.the.time. I was repulsed and furious and several times told him that if I'd known that marriage was going to be all about sex, I'd never have married him. I was very very disappointed in his interest in sex, I had expected much better from him. Well, hoped for better. My mother had "the talk" with me, but I had refused to believe that the man *I* chose would be so base. I was wrong of course. But I made it perfectly clear that I wouldn't be used like that. I was not his w*ore....I finally got through to him. The LD/HD thing was always an issue, but I could get up to 6 weeks in between giving in."*

Really? You don't call the behavior in red manipulative? You're joking, right? You absolutely DID manipulate him! You told him you weren't his wh0re, you expected better of him, AND the biggest thing? You told him *"if I'd known that marriage was going to be all about sex, I'd never have married [you]"*! How is THAT not manipulative behavior?? You did manipulate him. You made him into your little lap dog. Why? Because you knew he loved you enough that he would change WHO HE WAS to make you happy. How sad is that? That someone would change his or her whole basic personality, who they are, just to make one person happy... exactly what you say the LD person SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO! How is that fair, or even right?

*"His own anguish was his own fault. He could have realized I wasn't going to give in to him and knew what was best, and just stopped being so focused on getting sex from me. He surely knew me well enough by then to know there was no point in holding out hope that I would ever give in. Had he just stopped wanting it, he'd have been fine. Any anguish he went through is on his own shoulders. I do feel bad that our first years together were so rough, but on the other hand, if he'd just listened when I told him....we could have skipped all that."*

And this... "I knew what was best"... No, you knew what was best FOR YOU. You didn't know what was best for him. You manipulated his whole being into someone he is not...or was not. But you know what? I bet a part of the man you stripped away from him is still there, locked deep inside. I'd put money on it...if I had any! That's how sure I am!

*"Lack of proper father figures, poor societal values, over exposure to sex, abuses....so many reasons many women have become so weak."*

This part, I am unsure if you mean women in general who get emotionally involved with their spouses, not separating sex from emotion... or if you mean just the specific examples you gave of the battered women. If the latter, I will agree with you...to an extent. My sister was with a man who was sociopathic. I mean, he really fits the bill of sociopath and narcissist. But she didn't have all those things above working against her. I will agree, she was weak. But if you meant the former, that all women who are emotional as I described are weak, you are way off base. Honestly? I'd say the ones who SEEM to be tough, or "cold" are the weak ones. But that's JMO.

*"Your life will be more comfortable if you follow her lead."*

I'd say it's just as equally likely that her life would be more comfortable if she would follow HIS lead. But really, how likely is that to happen in a real, normal marriage? In a good marriage, they work out an agreement together, not force one to follow "my way or the highway" 

*"HD's are only distressed if they choose to be. If they looked at sex as a minor want and not a need and just settled down into the business of living, they'd be much more content. The power for their own contentment lies within them. They give their own power away by insisting on something they cannot have from their LD spouse."*

The same applies to LD. They are only distressed if they choose to be. If they looked at sex as an important part of marriage, rather than withholding it all the time, just because they don't think it's important at all, they'd be much more content. The power for THEIR own contentment lies within them. They give their own power away by insisting that their HD spouse is wrong about sex not being important in a marriage.

*"They are only after tail....all the time."*

So blatantly untrue it's pathetic. It isn't about "getting tail"... it is about connecting with his or her spouse. Even I, when I had a much lower drive, recognized that my husband wanted that connection, that bond with me. He was much higher drive than I was (6 years younger than I am, we married when he was 18 and I was 24). But, I know, this connection of which we speak, you cannot grasp it. It makes no sense to you. I get that. But you cannot blatantly disregard the feelings of others on this just because YOU feel no emotional connection during sex.

*"A marriage is a union of two."*

A UNION LOTL. Union means combining. Combine into one purpose, not "bend to my will"..and that goes BOTH ways, not just one.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Well I don't know about you but there was nothing in my marriage vows about being open to his sexual beck and call. Not at all. Something in there about better or worse, sickness and health, death do us part.* Private w*ore?* Nope...pretty sure I would have noticed that. (I removed the "obey" FWIW). I didn't promise to do anything that I didn't want to do and neither did he. I didn't want to have sex, so I didn't. I broke no promise. I promised to stay with him and I have and will. No slot openings here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Knock that sh!t off. None of us ladies who actually ENJOY sex are wh0res any more than you are. Your opinion in this respect is absolutely disgusting... and quite insulting.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Well I don't know about you but there was nothing in my marriage vows about being open to his sexual beck and call. Not at all. Something in there about better or worse, sickness and health, death do us part. Private w*ore? Nope...pretty sure I would have noticed that. (I removed the "obey" FWIW). I didn't promise to do anything that I didn't want to do and neither did he. I didn't want to have sex, so I didn't. I broke no promise. I promised to stay with him and I have and will. No slot openings here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The tone of this is exactly why your arguments come across as offensive. *No slot openings here?* As I said before, it's as if you think men think of a wife as a masturbation machine ... their own "Private w*ore". I don't know what your background is but you have a very hostile view of men and/or sexuality. I could be wrong, but my impression is that it is your view of men and not a person with HD. Many HD women have expressed the very same sentiments as I have in this forum. Would you feel the same if you were HD and your partner didn't want to have anything to do with having sex with you? I'm not sure you would. I personally don't know any married men that view their wives that way and the men that are that way have no business being married. You have presented sex as degrading, making it sound vile and shameful. 

If I wanted a w*ore then I would get one. If I need a sexual release then I will masturbate. Now, it would be wonderful if my wife enjoyed sex with me as a recreation ... that would be fantastic but I don't require it. No, what I want is not a hole to stick my p3cker into but the intimacy and connection that comes from having sex with my wife. THAT is what is missing in my marriage and my life. My wife is no 'w*ore' and I don't want to her to be.

No, you didn't take that vow ... but unless you told your husband before getting married that sex is not important to you and you probably wouldn't have sex very often then you married him under false pretenses.

... and if you are going to remove the word "obey" because you disagree with it then I will add the words "have sex" ... because I can


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> So if the LD gives in and the HD gets their way, does that make the HD the selfish one?


Your relentless characterization of marriage as war for control is what's wrong. 

Until you can drop the framing of relationships = war, there is no hope you will ever understand normal male/female interaction.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Being offensive is not masculine, nor is being a control freak. You're a woman with some severe issues.
> You are deeply confused about things and it sounds like it stems from some kind of personality disorder.
> 
> 
> That's what I hear from many people who relentlessly post offensive stuff and are in constant attack mode. It isn't really them doing the typing I guess.


I think you imbue my posts with subtext of your own making. Perhaps you read them as though I was being rude, snide or sarcastic or trying to rile you. I am not. When I am writing, my internal dialogue is fairly dead-pan. You are crediting me with motives I don't have. I am not attacking anyone. I am airing my own beliefs...some of which, in regards to being LD are not unique to me alone. I do not ask for understanding from you, whether you get me or not is not important. I am here to learn about human behaviour outside the scope of my own experience. Some of these behaviours I find strange, disturbing, bizarre and or even wrong, so I WILL debate them. But debate in itself is not an attack. 
Having an opinion different from the crowd is not indicative of a personality disorder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Perhaps you read them as though I was being rude, snide or sarcastic or trying to rile you.


I've seen much better manipulators. You are banal and right here we have what is called "duper's delight" where the manipulator is over-the-top rude and then tells you it is your imagination. It is a way of calling you stupid. :smthumbup:

Pretty clear that you've been at manipulation for a very long time. On the one hand as you have admitted numerous times, manipulating men sexually, as if you were the first who ever thought of that...

Secondly by being incessantly offensive towards other women, especially ones who actually do enjoy sex. It is disguised as "pity" for them being "weak", but it is clear from everything else you have written - it comes down to your view that sex with a man is being dominated and having something taken from you. Women who like sex are weak and need to be pitied because men are dominating them and "taking" sex from them. If they were healthy like you, they would be just as sick. 

That's your own perverted view of the world and what is good about it is looking into a dysfunctional mind to better understand it - not for any value in conducting ourselves in healthy relationships.

Thirdly it is clear that offending people in general is a sport to you and is the fraternal twin to fake charm that you use to manipulate men: being offensive to anger people. Because that is exerting control over them. I can't make you agree with me, but boy look how I can make you angry. Look how stupid you are for not knowing what I am up to. 

I've seen so many of you and generally there is something really dysfunctional in their childhood. Yours is obviously with a horrible father but could be issues with the mother too.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

The "slot opening" remark was made in reply to a pp who said I should release my dh and free up a slot for another woman. I DID NOT intend the remark the way it was taken. That's gross. 
Same with private w*hore. I said that in context of giving sex without wanting to. With "taking care of his(sexual) needs". I never signed on for that nonsense. Giving in to sex under pressure from a HD WOULD have made me feel like a w*ore. Which is why I didn't do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> The "slot opening" remark was made in reply to a pp who said I should release my dh and free up a slot for another woman. I DID NOT intend the remark the way it was taken. That's gross.
> Same with private w*hore. I said that in context of giving sex without wanting to. With "taking care of his(sexual) needs". I never signed on for that nonsense. Giving in to sex under pressure from a HD WOULD have made me feel like a w*ore. Which is why I didn't do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And instead, you made him bend to your will. It wasn't the first time you used the term "private wh0re" or "his wh0re"... you said it previously too/about your own husband. Sorry, I just cannot fathom anyone feeling THAT way about the man (or even woman) they claim to love, totally and completely. You love your spouse, but think HE sees you as his own private wh0re?How can you say you love someone and still think such vile thoughts about him? That's not love. That's control.


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> LOTL, I have tried, in other threads, to give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll admit, sometimes I haven't succeeded. But there have been times when I have "liked" your posts... because they actually made sense. But the posts you have been making in this thread... no. Now, I'll give you one thing. Every so often, you MIGHT throw in a nugget of truth. But for the most part, your posts in this thread have been rather insulting. Not just to the men, but to some women as well. I've taken some that really got me riled, but I will try to remain as civil as possible when addressing them. Others, it's not so much that they got me riled up as I felt confused by them. Nonetheless, the words in bold are yours, LOTL, and they were very caustic, IMO.
> 
> *"As long as the HD is getting his or her rocks off, it doesn't matter how the LD suffers"*
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

The private wh*ore comment....have to say, if those were the words you used towards your H, then I understand why he bent to your will....I know my H wouldn't touch me with a 10 foot pole if I told him I felt like a wh*ore when he wanted to make love to me.

Did you make it CRYSTAL CLEAR when you were engaged that you had absolutely no interest in sex except for conceiving children?


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

Seems to me both low drive/low desire and high drive/high desire are 2 sides of the same coin. 

LD
Feel shame, betrayed, hurt, taken advantage of, suffer low self esteem, feelings of inadequacy, soul crushing defeat, feel worthless, unloved, uncared for, put down, made to feel as though their feelings don't matter/count, extreme discomfort 

If they give in to sex

HD
Feel shame, betrayed, hurt, taken advantage of, suffer low self esteem, feelings of inadequacy, soul crushing defeat, feel worthless, unloved, uncared for, put down, made to feel like their feelings don't matter/count, extreme discomfort 

If they are rejected sex


I don't think anybody wants to feel like a blow up doll with a pulse. Likewise, I don't think anybody wants to have sex with a blow up doll with a pulse. 

Both LD and HD would like to feel loved and adored and safe with a spouse. We just have different ways to get love and give love. 

I think we all do things in a marriage that is not our personal idea of fun. Some activities are not the bees knees, but we talk and come to a middle ground so both spouses can be happy. It's not just sex, my husband does couponing with me, he could care less about it. He does not enjoy fixing the wi-fi because the printer drops out. 

It's annoying and time consuming. He could be enjoying some down time, but he's helping me do something I want to. Then go shopping and actually be there with me, side by side. Not checked out. 

I think he would rather be at home with the Xbox relaxing on his day off or after work, not fighting crowds at the store and standing in line. it's not comfortable or exciting or fun. It's a chore. But he does this with me all in and finds fun in doing it with me. Because its with me.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> *"As long as the HD is getting his or her rocks off, it doesn't matter how the LD suffers"*
> 
> Turn that around. 'As long as the LD doesn't have to have sex with his/her spouse, it doesn't matter how much the HD suffers.'
> The HD suffering is a choice. They can choose to accept the status quo as set by the LD, who doesn't have a choice about how they feel. Compromise is what most will resort to, however no one ends up satisfied this way.
> ...


But the HD doesn't want it both ways do they? They want EVERYTHING from the LD, even that which they have chosen not to give. The HD wants it one way, their way. They are no better than the characterized LD here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> But the HD doesn't want it both ways do they? They want EVERYTHING from the LD, even that which they have chosen not to give. The HD wants it one way, their way. They are no better than the characterized LD here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nobody said they were better. They just want different things and the healthy thing is for both of them to compromise.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

There has to be a compromise or it cannot work long term. Someone's needs aren't being met (whether it's the LD not being given enough space or the HD not getting intimacy).

Someone isn't feeling loved either way UNLESS there's a compromise.


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> But the HD doesn't want it both ways do they? They want EVERYTHING from the LD, even that which they have chosen not to give. The HD wants it one way, their way. They are no better than the characterized LD here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They don't want everything. They want a compromise...not a "it's my way or no way at all".


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Can someone troll and not even know they're trolling?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I've read a lot of LOTL's posts and I've decided that she is either hugely exaggerating her opinions for shock value, or she is so lacking in empathy and human understanding that she could easily be a sociopath. 

Either way I have had enough of her posts, as they add nothing to my understanding of normal human relationships and I'm tired of reading them. So I think I'm going to use the ignore function for her from now in, which is a shame, as she can also be quite witty. But the positives aren't outweighing the negatives for me anymore.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Pandakiss said:


> Seems to me both low drive/low desire and high drive/high desire are 2 sides of the same coin.
> 
> LD
> Feel shame, betrayed, hurt, taken advantage of, suffer low self esteem, feelings of inadequacy, soul crushing defeat, feel worthless, unloved, uncared for, put down, made to feel as though their feelings don't matter/count, extreme discomfort
> ...




Yes yes yes yes. I can agreee with this. It makes sense in a way I can understand. Kind of an aha moment LOL.



> I think we all do things in a marriage that is not our personal idea of fun. Some activities are not the bees knees, but we talk and come to a middle ground so both spouses can be happy. It's not just sex, my husband does couponing with me, he could care less about it. He does not enjoy fixing the wi-fi because the printer drops out.
> 
> It's annoying and time consuming. He could be enjoying some down time, but he's helping me do something I want to. Then go shopping and actually be there with me, side by side. Not checked out.
> 
> I think he would rather be at home with the Xbox relaxing on his day off or after work, not fighting crowds at the store and standing in line. it's not comfortable or exciting or fun. It's a chore. But he does this with me all in and finds fun in doing it with me. Because its with me.


See, I don't ask dh to do things with me that he doesn't like. We have very different interests and I don't think it fair to make him partake in my activities when they boree him. He hates fishing, so I don't make him go with me. My knitting business bores him so I don't bother him about it. I don't intrude on his hobbies either since I can barely tell one end of a car from another 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

We don't share everything. We like the same things just different categories. We like video games but he likes RPG's and I like driving games, for example. 

We like spending time together so we make the best of the time spent. I don't care for shipping for games with him. It's boring, and I didn't want anything. 

But I have fun with him and ask questions. We have conversations about it later. Such as, how much time could be spent playing this game vs that game. Cost is a factor. 

If I wasn't there then he couldn't talk to me about it. This conversation can go into other topics like shoes, tattoos, did we buy things we needed for the month. 

This is important to him to share time together. It makes him feel loved and valued. If I didn't go with him to do things he likes, he would feel less likely to jump in with both feet for things I like. 

He would not feel as though I cared about him enough to share time and have conversations, so he would shut down. When he feels loved, he makes me feel loved, vice versa, when I feel loved, I make him feel loved. 

He loves to talk tec. Anything computers. Makes my ears melt. But I love him, and if it's important to him I listen and try to follow along and I ask a ton of questions. 

He isn't annoyed by me asking, he feels valued that I was listening and trying to understand something he is into. 

Same for me, I talk about shoes, and getting my free crap from the mall, and all the endless things going on in my world. He feels valued because I'm sharing my interests. He asks questions and offers options when I'm stuck in a holding pattern. 

For us, we have fun with anything. We were at the DMV. I didn't wanna go. It's so boring and lame. He had to get tags, so you know it was this line, then this line, then sit in a chair til your ass falls asleep. He pulled out his iPod and we played dismount. It was fun and the time flew by. We were laughing so much we almost missed hearing the number being called out. 

It meant a lot to him for me to tag along. He gave me a "out", and said I could stay home. But we rode the bus there and back and basically had fun the whole time. Later (in guy speech) he told me how much he appreciated me being there with him. 

I got to pick our first destination in our new car. He had a million things to do, but he wanted me to feel valued, just as I made him feel valued. (we went to the mall and window shopped)

I enjoy making him feel good, and I know he enjoys making me feel good. So even if it's somewhere boring, or not my or his cup of tea, it's nice to love the other and make them feel valued. 

Sorry if I rambled I'm a talker lol. Im glad you could take an understanding from the early part of my post. As I was reading your thoughts in this thread, I realized how much in common LD/HD really are.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I wonder if there will ever be a thread where LD people don't get torn to pieces like it's shark week.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I wonder if there will ever be a thread where LD people don't get torn to pieces like it's shark week.


I doubt it. 

But the anger and frustration that gets channeled to me here is part of the fascination. Another part of the emotional response that I don't understand, so I really don't mind the venting. 

It gives me a lot to think about, that's for sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Pandakiss said:


> We don't share everything. We like the same things just different categories. We like video games but he likes RPG's and I like driving games, for example.
> 
> We like spending time together so we make the best of the time spent. I don't care for shipping for games with him. It's boring, and I didn't want anything.
> 
> ...


Yes I see what you mean and I guess I could work on that area. I tend to think only of my own interests and leave him to his own. I don't want him getting involved in mine, but I do appreciate his support very much. I guess it wouldn't kill me to do a car show or two with him, since he's asked many times. I DO enjoy making him happy...I really do. It just never seems to occur to me at the appropriate time. 

Maybe I need to tattoo it to the back of my hand? LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It just never seems to occur to me at the appropriate time.
> 
> Maybe I need to tattoo it to the back of my hand? LOL
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm this way with SO regarding affection.I just forget LOL I'm not wired that way or something.He needs a ton of affection and outside the bedroom,I really don't.
It's a daily thing to remember to hug him,kiss him,and snuggle him enough to meet his need.I LOVE doing it but still have to consciously think about it so I don't slack off.

eta I think that's why I'm over the top regarding my attention on him.If I'm going to make something part of my daily routine,I'm going to do it right LOL


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Sex isn't a basic need. Food, water, shelter, clothing, security....those are basic needs. Sex isn't even on the radar when it comes to human needs. It is a want, pure and simple. A desire....hence the terms "HD and LD". Humans are wired to search out pleasure, we are inherent hedonists. Sex fills that role, and apparently some sort of mystic bonding juju as well. But it is utterly irrelevant as a need.


Big straw man. Conversation is not a need either, yet I doubt you would say a man who sits down and ignores his wife is not failing to meet a need. Because when people say need, we are talking about a need within the relationship. Many, if not the vast majority, find that sex is a need in the relationship, just like caring, communication, and emotional connections are. 

As you seem wont to do, you continue to dismiss it as a need because it is not important to you. I realize that those who have any need that require others are lesser in your eyes. The rest of us recognize that they are not.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm this way with SO regarding affection.I just forget LOL I'm not wired that way or something.He needs a ton of affection and outside the bedroom,I really don't.
> It's a daily thing to remember to hug him,kiss him,and snuggle him enough to meet his need.I LOVE doing it but still have to consciously think about it so I don't slack off.


Yes, same here. Hubs had to tell me that he wanted that from me...and he didn't tell me till relatively recently. Just in the last couple of years, I think. At first it was very hard, I kept forgetting. And he would get upset that I still wasn't doing it. I needed a constant mental reminder..."hug husband daily" LOL. Now it is habit and much more natural and I think we are quite affectionate with each other. He hasn't brought it up in a long time, and seems content. 

For me, I don't notice the times I'm supposed to fill a need of his until it's long past. It'll be in retrospect that I will see it and think "ohhhhhhh I should have done XYZ then!!". I never see it in the moment


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Yes, same here. Hubs had to tell me that he wanted that from me...and he didn't tell me till relatively recently. Just in the last couple of years, I think. At first it was very hard, I kept forgetting. And he would get upset that I still wasn't doing it. I needed a constant mental reminder..."hug husband daily" LOL. Now it is habit and much more natural and I think we are quite affectionate with each other. He hasn't brought it up in a long time, and seems content.
> 
> For me, I don't notice the times I'm supposed to fill a need of his until it's long past. It'll be in retrospect that I will see it and think "ohhhhhhh I should have done XYZ then!!". I never see it in the moment


I love to be there when he says "I really have a need for you to swallow my goodness"


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> But the anger and frustration that gets channeled to me here is part of the fascination. Another part of the emotional response that I don't understand, so I really don't mind the venting.
> 
> ...


Let's be very clear here.

Insofar as you don't speak for the entire LD community, even though you have said that you do on at least one occasion, none of my responses have been aimed at anyone other than YOU. It's YOUR ideas and their presentation with which we are taking issue, not the LD population in general. In this case, it really is ALL ABOUT YOU. 

The party making the sweeping generalizations and vilifying an an entire population here is LOTL. If I held my LD wife in the same contempt that you held your husband initially, and continue to hold anyone matching that description today, we could no longer be married. 

I do not tear the LD population to shreds in any thread, which you should be able to verify through my documented history here. I am still married to one, and have been for a very long time. I certainly take great exception to what I have read here with it's utter and complete lack of empathy or perspective combined with not-so-thinly veiled anger and disgust.

You do *not* get to come out guns blazing and then fall back on the victim card. I love to have reasoned discourse with anyone willing to participate, but not with someone who finds me to be depraved before word one has even left my keyboard.

To paraphrase a favorite movie, "Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' sexual favors is no basis for a loving relationship!"


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I love to be there when he says "I really have a need for you to swallow my goodness"


I think he values his intact hide too much to try that nonsense. 

Goodness? Ewwww, c'mon I just ate breakfast. Don't make me regret it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I think he values his intact hide too much to try that nonsense.
> 
> Goodness? Ewwww, c'mon I just ate breakfast. Don't make me regret it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So his needs can only go as far as YOU want them too.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I wonder if there will ever be a thread where LD people don't get torn to pieces like it's shark week.


LOL

IMHO:
I guess what so many don't realize is that having a low/no sexual desire is not a choice...although having sex IS a choice (excluding medical issues). It is assumed that people have sexual desire, are horny & want to have lots of sex. People (rightly so) assume when they marry, that they will be having lots of sex.

Because most of the population is HD, in a perfect world, the LD/ND person would be honest & upfront while dating before marriage so the HD person can make an informed, intelligent choice to marry or not, discuss compromises or not.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Let's be very clear here.
> 
> Insofar as you don't speak for the entire LD community, even though you have said that you do on at least one occasion, none of my responses have been aimed at anyone other than YOU. It's YOUR ideas and their presentation with which we are taking issue, not the LD population in general. In this case, it really is ALL ABOUT YOU.
> 
> ...


I know I don't speak for all LD people. I have said several times that there are countless reasons for Ld and that I can only shed light on SOME of them. Obviously I am fiercely defensive of personal autonomy, dignity, respect, and integrity for the Ld spouse, since those are what are most at risk of being lost to the HD. THOSE are the bones I pick. 

I most certainly DO NOT play a victim card. How am I a victim? No one has attacked me personally, just my views and attitudes and I am fine with that. I expected it. I have been on TAM a long time, you just couldn't see me 

Again, I have not attacked any person here. Only entitled attitudes and selfish desires that put other people at risk of losing important parts of themselves. 

I am not empathetic. I do not feel for you. I barely understand what I haven't experienced or seen up close.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> So his needs can only go as far as YOU want them too.


Only as far as I'm capable of filling them. He can have needs beyond that, but they would be his issue. 

What if I had a need for him to go down on me during my period? Should he fill that need for me, no matter how revolting it is to him? Is there no limit to how far one subjugates oneself? I do draw the line. Hate me all you like for it. I won't debase myself for anyone, for any reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Yes...
End of hijack


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Just Wondering said:


> As human beings we look for value in everything.But I wonder where is the value that a LD person receives from being so self center about sex.Another way to ask this is .I am not very nice or good about excepting the dry spells that my LD wife gives me.But there must be a greater value she gets from it to allow it to happen.
> As sex go's I live in her world.She has control of it.Its hers to offer.I use to get pissed off about it. And wein and beg, At this point in life I just leave her alone.I limit my conversations with her,Bring no humor to the table.Just really don't hang out with her.But no matter what I do to her .She finds value in staying the course.She is happier not enjoying a well balanced sex life.She appears to be just fine with no sex and a bad relationship.She could have it the other way.But she finds value in the way she has it.
> Resently I have removed all cuddling,affection,limit conversation,Really trying to create the roommate relationship that works for her.I raised the white flag and surrender to her lack of sexual desire.But I try to find peace within with it.I just wonder why is it so important to her .Why do these types of people trade the wonderful life they could have,For their own sake



I think most of the issues in marriages and relationships would be eliminated if both individuals were of the same sex drive. Both HD or both LD.

Unfortunately, there's bait and switch, there's how one was raised, there's past abuse and trama, there's bad ex's, there's insecurity for their size and the list goes on.

In the case of a LD individual, going to the Dr and making sure hormones are in check and getting meds if needed.

What I've seen is LD's never see themselves as the issue. It's always the HD persons fault and issue. LD's never change for their HD counterpart. Its temporary and then back to their old ways. That's lazy and selfish.

Scenario. HD hubby and LD wife. HD hubby loves his wife and wants sex only with her all the time. He is attentive, romantic, talks and listens. LD wifee soon afterwards starts letting the sex slide to minimal levels. HD hubby gets frustrated, talks about it to her in great length, reads books trying to understand her better, more chores around the house, flowers, cards, going out together. Still nothing changes on the LD wife's part and the sex is minimal and only to get him off her back, almost just to keep the marriage and relationship going. LD wife sees nothing wrong with this and doesn't take care of her HD hubbies needs. HD hubby has had enough and now the marriage and relationship are more like friends and room mates and not husband and wife. They don't talk as much anymore and do their owns things. LD wife then blames the HD hubby all he wants is sex, even though she only allows sex maybe a few times a month. The entire situation is because the LD wife wouldn't change her LD ways and meet her hubby half way and make it stick. Yet the HD hubby is still at fault somehow.......NO, its the LD wife's fault for the mess they are in because of her unwillingness to change and adapt and meet his needs half way. This also goes for a HD wife and LD hubby.

For a marriage and relationship to really work, there must be physical and emotional closeness every day, not just the emotional and talking with little to no physical. Otherwise, you get EA's and PA's and divorces, which makes sense, even though its still wrong.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I most certainly DO NOT play a victim card. How am I a victim? No one has attacked me personally, just my views and attitudes and I am fine with that. I expected it. I have been on TAM a long time, you just couldn't see me


Perhaps a leap on my part. When you implicitly agreed with Scarlet on how LD people were being torn to shreds on this very thread (which I don't think has been the case, quite the contrary in fact), I may have misinterpreted. You certainly don't seem to suffer from not living your value system.



> Again, I have not attacked any person here. Only entitled attitudes and selfish desires that put other people at risk of losing important parts of themselves.


I agree. You haven't attacked anyone personally. What you have done is to categorize everyone HD into a group, painted them selfish and depraved, and then dismissed the entire group. You have to own the words you write. To whit:



> I get this feeling that HD people think they know better than the LD
> 
> As long as the HD is getting his or her rocks off, it doesn't matter how the LD suffers, does it?
> 
> ...





> I am not empathetic. I do not feel for you. I barely understand what I haven't experienced or seen up close.


Very well, sympathetic might be a better word. The realization that your failure to have experienced a certain feeling or mindset does not invalidate that feeling or its effect in others. The invalid generalization that the group to which you belong is somehow more entitled to its particular outrage. 

Many HD people have suffered just as long and hard as the LD, and for reasons no less noble and no less taxing on their emotional well-being. The LD does not have the monopoly nor the moral high ground on suffering in a mismatched relationship. Neither does. For two well intentioned spouses, the problem is not with the individuals, but with the marriage.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Perhaps a leap on my part. When you implicitly agreed with Scarlet on how LD people were being torn to shreds on this very thread (which I don't think has been the case, quite the contrary in fact), I may have misinterpreted. You certainly don't seem to suffer from not living your value system.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The "deacon" of the LD's on this site "LadyOfTheLake", is clear that it's the HD's that have the problem, and the HD's which have the selfishness and entitlement issues.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlet...Do you really see LD's being torn to shreds on this thread? I'm confused by that.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

FW - there is a lot of negative reaction specifically for LOTL. It's hard not to react when she makes statements like 'I wouldn't say the feelings of the LD are more important, but I think they are more legitimate.'

I'm uncertain if she's quite as unknowing about the impact and reaction she seems to provoke since at other times she mocks it. 

Either way, I see nothing productive in dogpiling someone who either is unaware of the hurt she's inflicting, uncaring about it or unconcerned.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

But...LOTL is shredding up the HD's and defending the LD's...that is why I was confused when SB said she is tired of seeing the LD's shredded....but where is that happening? Which posts and posters?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> But...LOTL is shredding up the HD's and defending the LD's...that is why I was confused when SB said she is tired of seeing the LD's shredded....but where is that happening? Which posts and posters?


Seem liked the HD's were concerned about the LD's needs to me. But realized they were having their own needs completely overlooked.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> FW - there is a lot of negative reaction specifically for LOTL. It's hard not to react when she makes statements like 'I wouldn't say the feelings of the LD are more important, but I think they are more legitimate.'
> 
> I'm uncertain if she's quite as unknowing about the impact and reaction she seems to provoke since at other times she mocks it.
> 
> Either way, I see nothing productive in dogpiling someone who either is unaware of the hurt she's inflicting, uncaring about it or unconcerned.


It's hard for me to read her surgical coldness. It's emasculating, and I can only imagine how her husband feels. Although since being on this site she did re-institute forms of sexual relations, whereas before she didn't see any need for it.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

FW - I'm sorry but clearly you and I don't view things the same way and that's ok. 

I won't defend LOTL nor her words (as I stated above, I do think it may be intentional to provoke a response).

I'll not enter into a debate over it, but will simply agree to disagree with you.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Not sure what there is to disagree on, I was asking SB where she was seeing LD's being shredded, and you chimed in about LOTL. :scratchhead:

I have no issue with anything you said so I don't know what there would be to disagree on. I am simply saying that I don't really see people shredding LD's on this thread. I just see people going back and forth with LOTL.

So I had asked SB where she was seeing the shredding.

I don't actually have any position here, either way.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Wow. Just holy crap.

As a HD woman who is constantly upset by a LD man, I just dont understand. 

I know some LD can't help it they feel that way. The same way I can't help it I'm HD. But.

The way LOTL talks is so sad. 

My husband and I had a relationship for 5 YEARS before we had sex. It was a great relationship. So i can see why she says she doesn't feel like you need sex to have a good relationship. BUT

We are married now. Good sex is so beautiful and it makes me just glow with love for him. I literately lay there with a huge grin and such a amazing amount of emotional connection to him. I giggle, and he laughs at me, but I just feel so in love afterwards. 

Orgasms are great, they tie that bond for me. But when I want to have sex with him I am in no way just "trying to get my rocks off." If I wanted that we wouldn't have waited 5 years, or I would masterbate. (Which we don't.)

Sex is like the icing on the cake to a great relationship. I can't imagine my life without getting to feel that powerful connection now. I get cranky after just a couple days. And it's not the sexual release I'm craving. 

When my husband turns me down (as he did last night) it hurts me deeply inside. I feel unloved, and unconnected. I just don't understand how he or anyone wouldn't want to feel that amazing love all the time. 

I don't dislike you because your LD. But you views on normal people who love sex with their spouses is so warped!

I feel so bad for your husband who you've "trained" into thinking wanting a powerful love with his spouse is disgusting and wrong. I don't understand how you think your views are correct, and how men just look at women as sex machines.

My husband jokes the same way sometimes calling me a horndog, or a s_lut and it really hurts my feelings. He's not a piece of meat, and I don't look at him like that. He's beautiful.

I pity your poor husband. Despite you saying he is happy, he is missing out on so much more, and so are you.

Amazed.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Best lay off LOTL she's liable to come up in here with the flamethrower of indignation.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I did want to add that LOTL reminds me much of Sheldon Cooper.

Very logical and smart. But wrong. 

I love the Big Bang Theory, and Sheldon.

The world takes all kinds though. So no hating here. Just sadness, and amazment.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

LOTL is describing perfectly how some LDs feel about sex when they don't desire it. It feels like a violation of your body. Marriage does not remove those feelings, which is why I never understand why some HLs marry thinking that the sex will be better. My hubby did.

Maybe instead of pilling on her, take her viewpoints and learn from them. This society is very sexualized, and LDs are made to feel that something is medically wrong with them. The only thing that is wrong is when the HD expects hot rip roaring sex for the rest of their lives with a person who doesn't care less. Some LDs don't want to be forced to take hormones and other medications to increase their sex drive. Think about it, do you want your partner to desire sex because they are attracted to you or because they are jacked up on medications?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

techmom said:


> LOTL is describing perfectly how some LDs feel about sex when they don't desire it. It feels like a violation of your body. Marriage does not remove those feelings, which is why I never understand why some HLs marry thinking that the sex will be better. My hubby did.
> 
> Maybe instead of pilling on her, take her viewpoints and learn from them. This society is very sexualized, and LDs are made to feel that something is medically wrong with them. The only thing that is wrong is when the HD expects hot rip roaring sex for the rest of their lives with a person who doesn't care less. Some LDs don't want to be forced to take hormones and other medications to increase their sex drive. Think about it, do you want your partner to desire sex because they are attracted to you or because they are jacked up on medications?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that if there can't be some type of compromise reached, I'd have to part ways. Period. It's not fair to live only by one partner's feelings, wants and needs.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Scarlet...Do you really see LD's being torn to shreds on this thread? I'm confused by that.


A lot of the times,yeah I see it.I'm even guilty of it.Some HD folks get torn up but it seems like the HD people are more aggressive in their stance than the LD's with the exception of many LOTL comments lol
Or maybe my view is biased somehow,I can't be sure.I will admit I have a sympathetic streak for honest to goodness LD people who really can't figure out why they are LD.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

techmom said:


> LOTL is describing perfectly how some LDs feel about sex when they don't desire it. It feels like a violation of your body. Marriage does not remove those feelings, which is why I never understand why some HLs marry thinking that the sex will be better. My hubby did.
> 
> Maybe instead of pilling on her, take her viewpoints and learn from them. This society is very sexualized, and LDs are made to feel that something is medically wrong with them. The only thing that is wrong is when the HD expects hot rip roaring sex for the rest of their lives with a person who doesn't care less. Some LDs don't want to be forced to take hormones and other medications to increase their sex drive. Think about it, do you want your partner to desire sex because they are attracted to you or because they are jacked up on medications?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is more or less what I was talking about,the piling on,that makes it feel like LD's are torn up around here.



ETA for Cletus to understand:What she said is more or less what I was thinking when I thought LD's get torn up.she just said it more detailed and better than I did.

I wasn't saying HER post was piling on.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

techmom said:


> Think about it, do you want your partner to desire sex because they are attracted to you or because they are jacked up on medications?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Isn't that a large component of the reason many HD partners desire sex? Ok, so the medication is produced internally instead of swallowed, but the effect is the same. Testosterone is a cruel taskmaster.

If there were no side effects and if my partner could not tell the difference between their innate desire and a hormone ****tail, I think I'd be OK with it. Just like I'm thankful for the side effects of my libido suppressing allergy medication. It would definitely be an improvement over faking it for my benefit.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

techmom said:


> Think about it, do you want your partner to desire sex because they are attracted to you


If my wife was no longer attracted to me, I'd want to part ways...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> This is more or less what I was talking about,the piling on,that makes it feel like LD's are torn up around here.


You and I must be working from a very different definition of the term "piling on".


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> You and I must be working from a very different definition of the term "piling on".


It wouldn't shock me.In past threads,we haven't seen eye to eye on much of anything. But that's ok


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I've read a lot of LOTL's posts and I've decided that she is either hugely exaggerating her opinions for shock value, or she is so lacking in empathy and human understanding that she could easily be a sociopath.


The sociopath simply makes choices on who they are going to be charming with and who they are going to offend. 

With men she needs to manipulate, she will be glib, charming and feign sexuality. 

I'm taking your suggestion by usng ignore from now on. This loooooong record of toying with people for sport needs to stop being rewarded.




Daffodilly said:


> Did you make it CRYSTAL CLEAR when you were engaged that you had absolutely no interest in sex except for conceiving children?


Notice how she did not answer that crucial question, and instead put all this crap out about how there was nothing in the vows about sex?

In her "coming out LD" thread she explained how they had plenty of sex before marriage, just not going all the way. So this tells us the kind of calculating cruelty involved. The bait-and-switch. 

There is no universal LD formula, and she represents no-one but some extreme disordered minority. 

We have many cases of women with overbearing insensitive husbands where the wife gradually draws away, and although it is passive-aggressive warfare, both sides need to meet the other's needs to be happy.

You have people with hormonal issues that develop and people who were born that way too - and these kinds of cases need to be dealt with differently.

Then there are people having affairs, and you can go to the CWI threads and see how the supposed LD spouse is banging like bunnies with someone else. 

This discussion with LOTL has been all about her personal war, and this is not representative nor productive.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> This is more or less what I was talking about,the piling on,that makes it feel like LD's are torn up around here.





ScarletBegonias said:


> It wouldn't shock me.In past threads,we haven't seen eye to eye on much of anything. But that's ok


No, really. The post to which you replied as an example of piling on was anything but unless you've defined it as any response whatsoever. I'm not usually completely baffled by something, but you've got me on this one.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

treyvion said:


> It's hard for me to read her surgical coldness. It's emasculating, and I can only imagine how her husband feels. Although since being on this site she did re-institute forms of sexual relations, whereas before she didn't see any need for it.


How is MY attitude emasculating to YOU? I have no effect whatsoever on your life. I am nothing but a personality on a message board with different view about sex. That is a very strange thing to say.

Unless you mean you can only feel manly in the face of weak, emotional, needy women who want to pander to men. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that that isn't really what you are saying though.

My husband has no complaints, he'd tell me if he did. He does get frustrated with me from time to time and he calls me a social retard, but that has nothing to with him being a man.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> No, really. The post to which you replied as an example of piling on was anything but unless you've defined it as any response whatsoever. I'm not usually completely baffled by something, but you've got me on this one.


LOTL says some pretty sh*tty things.Yes.True.But she also explains herself clearly in a way that has helped me understand a bit better about how people can take or leave sex.People are spending all this time getting offended by HOW she says things instead of going deeper and seeing that she's a prime example of someone HD people can use to learn how LD's think.She doesn't get defensive,she doesn't lash out..she continues explaining herself even as people are reacting to her lack of tact when it comes to expressing her thoughts,she still continues to try to explain clearer.

I've seen it from thread to thread w LOTL.

I've also seen it in other threads where someone is LD and the first thing people say are things meant to make the LD person feel there's something wrong with them,THEY need to improve.THEY need to change to fit the HD'er.
HD'ers seem to garner more sympathy depending on how they present their thread.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> LOTL says some pretty sh*tty things.Yes.True.But she also explains herself clearly in a way that has helped me understand a bit better about how people can take or leave sex.People are spending all this time getting offended by HOW she says things instead of going deeper and seeing that she's a prime example of someone HD people can use to learn how LD's think.She doesn't get defensive,she doesn't lash out..she continues explaining herself even as people are reacting to her lack of tact when it comes to expressing her thoughts,she still continues to try to explain clearer.
> 
> I've seen it from thread to thread w LOTL.
> 
> ...


Exactly! HD is presented as the norm, anything below that is considered a defect. There is something called a normal libido, but the HLs present theirs as "normal". Don't drug me because I'm not climbing the walls with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> LOTL says some pretty sh*tty things.Yes.True.But she also explains herself clearly in a way that has helped me understand a bit better about how people can take or leave sex.People are spending all this time getting offended by HOW she says things instead of going deeper and seeing that she's a prime example of someone HD people can use to learn how LD's think.She doesn't get defensive,she doesn't lash out..she continues explaining herself even as people are reacting to her lack of tact when it comes to expressing her thoughts,she still continues to try to explain clearer.
> 
> I've seen it from thread to thread w LOTL.
> 
> ...


So here's the post you quoted before you made your comment:



> Originally Posted by techmom
> LOTL is describing perfectly how some LDs feel about sex when they don't desire it. It feels like a violation of your body. Marriage does not remove those feelings, which is why I never understand why some HLs marry thinking that the sex will be better. My hubby did.
> 
> Maybe instead of pilling on her, take her viewpoints and learn from them. This society is very sexualized, and LDs are made to feel that something is medically wrong with them. The only thing that is wrong is when the HD expects hot rip roaring sex for the rest of their lives with a person who doesn't care less. Some LDs don't want to be forced to take hormones and other medications to increase their sex drive. Think about it, do you want your partner to desire sex because they are attracted to you or because they are jacked up on medications?


This is as level headed a response as one could ask for. It doesn't attack or lash out or offend in any way. 

Sorry to belabor this, but if the quote above is looked upon as a pile-on, it's hard to imagine how you think we can have any honest discussions whatsoever on difficult topics.

Anyway, the presentation doesn't absolve the presenter. Stereotyping and belittling in a calm, cool voice is no less insulting than screaming it from the top of a pulpit. Most if not all of the points LOTL has made could have been provided without abusing over half the population of the forum.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Well, I'm HD, and I know there is no better, no worse, no "norm".

HD's and HD's are great in relationships.

LD's and LD's are also great in relationships.

AD's and AD's (average desire) also, great in relationships.

Sometimes, HD's and LD's can work out a great relationship, sometimes they can't.

I think we can all agree that when there is a mismatch, it is uncomfortable for at least one of the spouses.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> So here's the post you quoted before you made your comment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The post YOU quoted as level headed even states about LOTL getting piled on. so now I'M confused.

I was AGREEING with the post you labeled as level headed.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> The post YOU quoted as level headed even states about LOTL getting piled on. so now I'M confused.
> 
> I was AGREEING with the post you labeled as level headed.


Well there's the source of our disconnect. When you quoted her article and then said "This is more or less what I was talking about,the piling on,that makes it feel like LD's are torn up around here." I assumed you were using it as a example of bad behavior.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Wow. Just holy crap.
> 
> As a HD woman who is constantly upset by a LD man, I just dont understand.
> 
> ...


Okay I will try to handle this as delicately as I can. My...theory?...feeling?...on this bolded issue is that what you are feeling afterwards is simply the result of a chemical concoction that your body produces. It isn't real, its just a biological prerogative. You aren't any more in love with him after than you were before. You are just feeling a buzz from the chemicals. Nothing wrong with that, but lets call a spade a spade and not dress it up as something its not. 




> Sex is like the icing on the cake to a great relationship. I can't imagine my life without getting to feel that powerful connection now. I get cranky after just a couple days. And it's not the sexual release I'm craving.


No, its a dopamine fix you are craving. Basically, a drug high that occurs naturally after orgasm. Dopamine is the factor behind all addictions, it is the feel good hormone, the one that rewards us. People crave it all the time, and it causes them to behave in the ways that cause the body to produce it. Sex produces dopamine, people crave sex.




> When my husband turns me down (as he did last night) it hurts me deeply inside. I feel unloved, and unconnected. I just don't understand how he or anyone wouldn't want to feel that amazing love all the time.


HE isn't craving the dopamine fix. It has nothing to do with you. Why would that make you feel unloved? Again, I am trying to be delicate, but this is frustrating. You are assigning responsibilities to your husband he can't fill. Why do you need him to make you feel anything? Only you are responsible for you? If you base your feelings off of his actions, you are going to end up hurt and disappointed. 



> I feel so bad for your husband who you've "trained" into thinking wanting a powerful love with his spouse is disgusting and wrong. I don't understand how you think your views are correct, and how men just look at women as sex machines.


I don't feel bad for him. I think he lucked out in the end. I will never be drag on him, never be clingy or needy or annoy him with wanting attention. I am self contained and take responsibility for my own feelings, I don't expect him to make me feel good or loved or happy or....anything really. I expect very little from him, in fact, I am happy to say. He is free to be his own person without my input, so long as he respects my boundaries. And I respect his. I respect HIM. So very much. He is an awesome person and I really do love him very very much. He is everything I could ever want in a man. No one has any reason to pity him because of me 



> My husband jokes the same way sometimes calling me a horndog, or a s_lut and it really hurts my feelings. He's not a piece of meat, and I don't look at him like that. He's beautiful.


It's up to you to let that hurt you or not. It does sound to me like its his passive aggressive way of trying to tell you something.

I don't like passive aggression. It's lazy. 




> I pity your poor husband. Despite you saying he is happy, he is missing out on so much more, and so are you.


I disagree 

[/QUOTE]


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Best lay off LOTL she's liable to come up in here with the flamethrower of indignation.


Why would I? I'm not at all indignant. :scratchhead:


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Anyway, the presentation doesn't absolve the presenter. Stereotyping and belittling in a calm, cool voice is no less insulting than screaming it from the top of a pulpit. Most if not all of the points LOTL has made could have been provided without abusing over half the population of the forum.


Also, a LOT of users here aren't the best at getting out their thoughts.I can think of at least 10 people off the top of my head who come in here and insult every woman/man on the forum every single time they post.LOTL is no different than these people.
Not everyone can speak in ways that are palatable for all users.It happens.We can either get offended and get our undies in a bunch about it OR we can step back,take the emotion out of it and LEARN something about someone else.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Well there's the source of our disconnect. When you quoted her article and then said "This is more or less what I was talking about,the piling on,that makes it feel like LD's are torn up around here." I assumed you were using it as a example of bad behavior.


VOILA! lol


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

Wiserforit said:


> Notice how she did not answer that crucial question, and instead put all this crap out about how there was nothing in the vows about sex?


Yes, I noticed she evaded the question. But her silence on it does, in fact, answer the question, so I didn't feel the need to point it out


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

whew...reading all the hd/ld mismatched stuff makes me realize how cruel nature can be sometimes.
I really hope if there ever comes day that I find myself in an LD state of body and mind,my partner will continue loving me and recognize it isn't some evil plot devised to torture him.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> ..she continues explaining herself even as people are reacting to her lack of tact when it comes to expressing her thoughts,she still continues to try to explain clearer.


This is an affectation of a sociopath. Watch the bloody murderesss Jodi Arias on the witness stand while she calls her victim a pedophile and tells one lie after another. 

The flat affect while behaving outrageously is something they become expert at. Working people up into a rage while having this disinterested demeanor themselves is the pinnacle of being in control.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

daffodilly said:


> Yes, I noticed she evaded the question. But her silence on it does, in fact, answer the question, so I didn't feel the need to point it out


I didn't intentionally evade the question, I just got swamped last night and was answering everything on my phone.

Before we got married I went through a spell where I told dh that I wanted a celibate marriage and didn't want children. I never wanted kids. I've always hated them. He agreed to that. I guess he thought he could change me. He was fully aware of my feelings about sex. By the time we did marry, I was to the point of giving sex the old college try but still had no real interest in it. So when it was so awful for me, I no incentive to pursue it. 

Eventually some stupid hormones made me crave a baby. I kind of wish I'd seen that for what it was. Me being a mother was not the best choice, in retrospect. Don't get me wrong, I love my kids to bits and would lay my life down for them...but I am not motherhood material. But, on the flip side, it was the traumatic birth of my first son that caused some tearing that once healed, made sex easier for me. Go figure. Since that birth, I have had no pain at all. :smthumbup:

But at to your question, yes, he knew. I didn't trap him or trick him.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> This is an affectation of a sociopath. Watch the bloody murderesss Jodi Arias on the witness stand while she calls her victim a pedophile and tells one lie after another.
> 
> The flat affect while behaving outrageously is something they become expert at. Working people up into a rage while having this disinterested demeanor themselves is the pinnacle of being in control.


She has no control over how other people react to her.She's stating her view just like everyone else does.It's THEIR problem if they're in a rage over her comments.
This is the second time someone on the board has compared a poster to that psycho Jodi.It's rude and unnecessary.
I'm not a hardcore fan of LOTL but I don't think it's right to label her as a potential sociopath.If the mods thought she was truly baiting or saying things to purposely start drama,she would have been banned already.You KNOW they keep an eye on things like this.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> whew...reading all the hd/ld mismatched stuff makes me realize how cruel nature can be sometimes.
> I really hope if there ever comes day that I find myself in an LD state of body and mind,my partner will continue loving me and recognize it isn't some evil plot devised to torture him.


If it does happen, make sure that you give him the time and the opportunity to come to that understanding. It took me nearly two decades, looking back. Because, at the time, it certainly doesn't feel that way.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> If it does happen, make sure that you give him the time and the opportunity to come to that understanding. It took me nearly two decades, looking back. Because, at the time, it certainly doesn't feel that way.


I'm sure it'll be just a hard on me if I suddenly become low drive through no fault of my own.I'll be just as devastated as he.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

humanbecoming said:


> I have never seen lotl get rude, snarky, or otherwise confrontational towards other posters however. I have to say, that although I have issues with some of what she says, I really appreciate her willingness to not attack others in her posts. She may confront their IDEA, but never the PERSON, as others do her. I have tremendous respect for that restraint, as it's not something I possess all the time


Imagine you're in 1939 Germany and someone is laying out to you in cool terms the ideas put forth in Mein Kampf. Is the message any more palatable because they're not picking on a specific Jew?

It's an extreme case, and I'm not comparing anyone's behavior to that horror of our past, but I point it out as a counterexample. You don't have to pick on an individual to offend a group, particularly one of your own making. It is in fact this specific offense that originally got my hackles up.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If LOTL has a LD hubby and they're happily married, that's great and good for her. It works for them. 

When it comes to a HD / LD mismatch, either spouse should be giving of themselves, whether its more sexual or emotional to meet their other halves needs. That's what marriage is about, giving of yourself and making sure your hubby or wife is happy. So if a HD spouse needs a lot of physical connection, take care of business. If the LD spouse needs more non physical support and connection, take care of business. Either will do things they may not like or want to do but since they are married and love each other, they should want to make each other happy and not being selfish and its what they want and nuts to you. Then they should be single.

We are human beings with emotions, moral free will for all choices we make, highly intelligent, have a conscience, etc. We are not cold, calculating unemotional machines, even though some might try to be.

I too watch Big Bang Theory and Shelden Cooper is a social misfit for sure, lacking in the social skill sets, but funny none the less. If he's so intelligent, why can't he learn the basic social skills? Penny......Penny......Penny.......lol. 

A good friend of mine said whenever he was in the mood (HD guy) his gf always made the time for him, even when she wasn't really in the mood. He always made the time to listen to her, give her emotional support and closeness and was there for her in return. They had a very close relationship right until he passed away. She took care of his needs and he took care of hers. That's giving of yourself and love and not some cold chemical reaction.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

So what if Dopamine is the reason I smile and giggle after sex. The next day after it is worn off I still smile at him. Men are beautiful. I love being able to enjoy my husband fully. I know I'm not really anymore in love with him after, but to me it's a great way to express that love. I'm glad we were created to perform and enjoy sex. I love seeing him having so much pleasure and knowing I'm the one who can give that to him. 

Take it as you will, but I love having sex with my husband. 

I find your viewpoints very interesting. Like reading a very intriguing book.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> If LOTL has a LD hubby and they're happily married, that's great and good for her. It works for them.
> 
> When it comes to a HD / LD mismatch, either spouse should be giving of themselves, whether its more sexual or emotional to meet their other halves needs. That's what marriage is about, giving of yourself and making sure your hubby or wife is happy. So if a HD spouse needs a lot of physical connection, take care of business. If the LD spouse needs more non physical support and connection, take care of business. Either will do things they may not like or want to do but since they are married and love each other, they should want to make each other happy and not being selfish and its what they want and nuts to you. Then they should be single.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Loving this. Your much better at putting thoughts to words. 

From what I read though her husband wasn't okay with no sex in marriage. But he has given in over time, because he loves her. Thats not compromise. Thats not giving yourself in marriage. Thats her taking what she feels is her right. 

That is why I feel pity for him. 

I'm of the mindset your body doesn't just belong to you, but it belongs also to your spouse when you get married. 

But I don't know the whole story, and have't seen their lives. If they are both happy, who am I to question. Good for them.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree: Loving this. Your much better at putting thoughts to words.
> 
> From what I read though her husband wasn't okay with no sex in marriage. But he has given in over time, because he loves her. Thats not compromise. Thats not giving yourself in marriage. Thats her taking what she feels is her right.
> 
> ...



I'm not the norm then for a guy, my thoughts in words?

So LOTL's hubby basically gave up on the sex life and doesn't want to fight with her about it. That's why he doesn't bring it up with her and say he's unhappy.

LOTL should be there sexually for her hubby and take care of his needs and he should do the same for her needs. But she didn't do that for him, he gave up, and everything is great now? I doubt he will ever bring it up and make an issue of it, he gave up.

I completely agree. When married, you are not your own anymore. You are to give of yourself, whether more emotional or physical to your spouse and take care of their needs and not the mind set, doesn't matter to me, so nuts to you.

But if he truly and honestly is happy with this arrangement, good for them. It works for them.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Yep yep. My thoughts too. 

He's a stronger soul then me I guess. I'm not sure I would have went so quietly into the night. I'd have to be pried off my sex life kicking and screaming. lol.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> So LOTL's hubby basically gave up on the sex life and doesn't want to fight with her about it. That's why he doesn't bring it up with her and say he's unhappy.


Truer words have never been spoken.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> <snipping attention to poster that should be ignored>



You've bought into a false framing of "LD vs HD". The usual case is not LD vs HD, but rather a normal person with an LD person.

Calling the normal person "High Drive" is not just inaccurate, but insideous for labelling them as extreme in their demands. Usually for them, sex every now and then would be a huge improvement over their sexless marriage. They aren't asking for three times a day, or even once a day or even five times a week. They are in sexless marriages. 

That is supremely unfair to a normal drive person, and is a terrible bias in this discussion. It is not LD/HD pairing, but normal drive vs low drive that is the vast majority of cases discussed here.

Tell me if you disagree.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

In my situation, it is a HD / LD marriage.

Whether I'm called LD, AD or HD doesn't bother me because its only words.

I really don't see why one spouse wouldn't want their other half to desire only them and often. Wouldn't that make them feel wanted, needed, lots of attention, sexy, desired, which is a good thing? Instead of close to nothing!!

Maybe I'm missing something here but when getting married, its for emotional and physical reasons, everything in a nutshell. You think they're hot, want them and to be around them and to do things with them.

Being somewhat clingy is a good thing because it shows they love you and want to be with you, instead of room mates and friends.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cletus said:


> So here's the post you quoted before you made your comment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Their LIFE or environment may be depressive and killing their libido and hormone levels along with it. So if getting your hormones adjusted to the correct levels fixes that, I would not mind if being on it makes them feel better about themself and actually want sex.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> I'm glad we were created to perform and enjoy sex. I love seeing him having so much pleasure and knowing I'm the one who can give that to him.
> .


Again, trying to be inoffensive yet still straightforward here. 

When we were struggling, DH would say something similar. I didn't believe him because it doesn't make rational sense. Like, great, he has pleasure during sex. Wonderful. My body gives him pleasure. But so would ANY female body. He only wanted mine because that is the only one he had access to. He wanted SEX, not ME. There was nothing special about ME that gave him pleasure. You see what I mean? All men get pleasure from females, it doesn't matter at all who the body belongs to....all females are basically built the same, as far as sex goes. So when he would get all weepy and boo hoo about stuff like that, I totallly called bull****. It was just a game, he was trying to manipulate me and I outsmarted him. But I don't think he even knew he had fallen for such a stupid ruse. He probably even believed it at some level. 

It was only after reading here that men do have some sort of emotional connection to sex that I gave a crap about it at all. But as for being proud of giving him pleasure? Why? It's not me. It's just my body and any other female body could do it just as well, or even better TBH.

Sorry to relate your experience back to me, but I didn't know how else to express my idea without it likely sounding offensive if I talked about you in place of me, IYKWIM.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> You've bought into a false framing of "LD vs HD". The usual case is not LD vs HD, but rather a normal person with an LD person.
> 
> Calling the normal person "High Drive" is not just inaccurate, but insideous for labelling them as extreme in their demands. Usually for them, sex every now and then would be a huge improvement over their sexless marriage. They aren't asking for three times a day, or even once a day or even five times a week. They are in sexless marriages.
> 
> ...


Everyone has a different definition of HD/LD. I think I'm HD bc I want it daily sometimes twice daily. I think wanting it every other day is HD where someone else might call it normal. I don't label people here,they've labeled themselves. I have no choice but to use the labels they've given their drive or lack thereof.
ETA: I can't answer your question bc I don't think there is such a thing as a normal sex drive. it seems all over the place for each individual. Who are we to tell someone they aren't normal bc they don't want sex more than once a month? To some people,that IS normal.
I think if you want to prove a point about the misuse of HD then you should create a thread about it. educate the masses on proper classifications as seen from your point of view.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LOTL...question for you.

You know you are likely on the autism spectrum, and I assume you understand what Asperger's is (even though you said a specialist didn't put that label on you, but I figure you do understand the phenomenon).

So since I know you are intelligent and you understand that for some people on the spectrum, they are unable to process emotions the same way that others can.

Therefore, does it not seem logical to you that if in fact your brain is different than people who are not on the spectrum, that perhaps there are emotional truths that you simply cannot access?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Again, trying to be inoffensive yet still straightforward here.
> 
> When we were struggling, DH would say something similar. I didn't believe him because it doesn't make rational sense. Like, great, he has pleasure during sex. Wonderful. My body gives him pleasure. But so would ANY female body. He only wanted mine because that is the only one he had access to. He wanted SEX, not ME. There was nothing special about ME that gave him pleasure. You see what I mean? All men get pleasure from females, it doesn't matter at all who the body belongs to....all females are basically built the same, as far as sex goes. So when he would get all weepy and boo hoo about stuff like that, I totallly called bull****. It was just a game, he was trying to manipulate me and I outsmarted him. But I don't think he even knew he had fallen for such a stupid ruse. He probably even believed it at some level.
> 
> ...


Stunningly, I can relate to what you wrote above.
I used to feel the same way about men. Any female body would do. 

But.. I was violently sexually assaulted when I was 25, and left for dead. It scarred me deeply. Prior to that, I did not have much sexual experience, and certainly no sense of sexuality. I had never had an orgasm, didn't see what the fuss was bout. 

I never put an emotional aspect to sex until I started dating my H. I was a HD woman, it gave me a thrill, I felt like a man for gosh sakes. I needed it, wanted it, could not get enough of it. I probably made my H feel like you describe, and he's as much said so. It hurt me deeply, more than physical assault, to be rejected by him. I was trying to shower him with LOVE, for gosh sakes. It was ONLY for him, no one else. All he saw from me was I was just using him to get my rocks off. He STILL feels that way. 

I shut down completely, emotionally. The one time I've ever put emotion to it, and he denies me. I'm working on myself at this point, and cannot even think about being intimate with him. Zero interest. In any man. I need to be a whole person before I can even think about involving someone else.

The point of sharing this is that I changed how I see it. All the posters saying it's an emotional connection and takes happy to a new level... I've been through it. I had it. And I lost it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It was only after reading here that men do have some sort of emotional connection to sex that I gave a crap about it at all. But as for being proud of giving him pleasure? Why? It's not me. It's just my body and any other female body could do it just as well, or even better TBH.


I'm glad you got past this misconception.

Sex for this man at least is the same, mas o menos, as it is for most of you women. It is a combination of a warm willing body and the unique closeness of a unique pair-bonded relationship.

Many women can perform the physical act of sex better than my wife. Yet I do not want those other women. It's not just her body, which is also nothing special (nor mine either, to be fair). The more important component is the relationship and how sex makes it just that much better - before, during, and after.

To be equally honest and hopefully inoffensive, you seem to be fond of categorizing the unknown into boxes that you can label and then deal with in the aggregate. Which works great as long as the contents of the box really are homogeneous, but fails miserably when they are not. 

All men do not fit neatly into a single box regarding sex. All HD people are not out to subjugate their less willing partners to selfishly meet their needs. The world is way more nuanced than that.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Therefore, does it not seem logical to you that if in fact your brain is different than people who are not on the spectrum, that perhaps there are emotional truths that you simply cannot access?


It's hard to say, since there is debate as to whether I am or am not all that different from you or anyone else.

I am inclined to think that there are no emotional "truths" that I can't access. I think it's more that I see _through_ all the fluff, the trivial and unimportant minutia that other people get caught up in. It seems to me that people are SO obsessed with what they are feeling, care so much about getting those feelings *from* other people, that they are blinded. They chase after these illusions all their lives....and for what? Why? What is the drive to do this? You speak of your mates making you feel desired and accepted and wanted and needed....yadda yadda yadda.....but WHY do you want to feel these things? That is what I just can't understand. I am utterly unaffected by this need that is displayed here and it baffles me. 
It's not the emotions I don't understand, it's WHY people feel them and why people WANT to feel them. That is what baffles me, and I don't think that has anything to do with any form of autism.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

LOTL, I can answer your above post, just for myself.
I'm independent. I don't need anyone. I can survive all my own, thanks very much. I don't need someone to show me love. 

Yes, it's trivial. To a mind that is more aware... it certainly is.
We are to look inwards for that sense of acceptance, and not rely on others to feel loved, or a sense of self worth. 

What I've also learned recently that the 2nd part of that, for ME, is that I am not truly living unless I am GIVING love. If I look inward long enough, and toss off the external need for acceptance, there is the need to give the love I have. That is my purpose in life. 

the door goes both ways. If I am blocking out the senseless need for external acceptance, then I'm also not letting the good out either. 

That craving humans have for love and affection... that desire is there. For me, it has been part of an awareness that the desire is to be love, not measure how much I am getting. I had it all wrong.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"That is what I just can't understand. I am utterly unaffected by this need that is displayed here and it baffles me. 
It's not the emotions I don't understand, it's WHY people feel them and why people WANT to feel them. That is what baffles me, and I don't think that has anything to do with any form of autism."


But do you not understand that what I quoted above is the same sentiment that MANY people with autism have? So IOW, if we have one slice of the population, those on the spectrum, that "cannot understand" these "needs" that basically everyone else claims to have...then isn't it logical that those on the spectrum really are missing out on something that the others are not?

Or do you feel that those on the spectrum are of a higher mentality that EVERYONE else?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Or do you feel that those on the spectrum are of a higher mentality that EVERYONE else?


I like it - I'm going to adopt it.

"Can we make love?"
"Not tonight, dear. I'm on the spectrum." 

(Never tested myself but with some suspicions...)


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> My body gives him pleasure. But so would ANY female body. He only wanted mine because that is the only one he had access to. He wanted SEX, not ME. There was nothing special about ME that gave him pleasure. You see what I mean? All men get pleasure from females, it doesn't matter at all who the body belongs to....all females are basically built the same, as far as sex goes.
> .


THIS!! I felt this for years and years! 

I don't think men, ...some, a few, most, a lot.... really get how women perceive emotion. Sex doesn't convey emotion, it can reinforce it, but it doesn't convey emotion, particularly in an environment in which emotional needs are unmet, unidentified, overlooked, invalidated... And when a woman has felt that sex with her husband is not much more than him being horny and her being the closest available orifice, yes, she's gonna turn that off!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I can see how that would be the case in a marriage where a man or woman shows no love, and then wants to have sex.

But in LOTL's case, she claims her husband has always been loving and caring. So she feels this lack of connection through sex, even when love IS present.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

But can you miss something if you lack the capacity for it? That's a tall order, ya know? 

If you've never seen colors, can you possibly understand what people get all excited about when they talk about it? 

Right or wrong, she at least was honest with her husband before marrying him - she did say she'd be happy with celibacy. That he was still willing to marry her says that he would have been ok with that as an option.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Myself, I don't need a woman, but I chose to get married and have a women by my side because of the companionship, friendship, closeness and she completes me, the female side of things that I cannot see, understand or do as a male on my own.

Yes, I wish we had more sex, and maybe that will happen and maybe it never will. Only time will tell......

At least LOTL was honest in telling her hubby to be about her LD and he said he was cool with it. That being said, it works for them. She didn't bait and switch, hats off to her. 

Now if LOTL suddenly was HD and wanted sex all the time with her hubby, doing crazy things, dress up, talking dirty, movies, you name it, do you think her hubby would be angry, now all she wants is sex, a chemical reaction and meaningless? NO. He would be blown away because men are built on testosterone and up to 10x higher than women. So its not just getting our rocks off, we need sex for our health, sanity and that connection to our women. Yes, any woman has the same body parts and sex is sex, very true and same goes for men, but when you get married, its not just sex anymore, its much more than that, at least it should be.

I don't know any guy who would by truly happy with a LD to celebate wife.

How many women would be truly happy with a little to no emotional closeness support hubby?

When being married, there's an emotional, physical, mental, spiritual, and everything connection. He is your lover and best friend. Sex isn't just sex anymore. You should want to be with him because you find him hot, love him and like sex with him. "Your defensive guard should be down", you trust him and really learn, grow and bond with him, and him with you as well.

If sex to you and love, emotions, etc. are just chemicals and almost a nuisance, there is something that happened to get you to this point.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"I don't know any guy who would by truly happy with a LD to celebate wife."


I know several LD husbands who wish their HD wives would stop hounding them for sex.

This is why I wish people wouldn't automatically assume men are "always" HD. They are not.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> THIS!! I felt this for years and years!
> 
> I don't think men, ...some, a few, most, a lot.... really get how women perceive emotion. Sex doesn't convey emotion, it can reinforce it, but it doesn't convey emotion, particularly in an environment in which emotional needs are unmet, unidentified, overlooked, invalidated... And when a woman has felt that sex with her husband is not much more than him being horny and her being the closest available orifice, yes, she's gonna turn that off!


If that's her mindset, I could see how it's a turnoff when he wants her.

Of course I'm sure he loves his wife, and he wants her more than anyone else in the world, and its not "just an orifice" to him. It's how he can connect with her and be as close as possible.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "I don't know any guy who would by truly happy with a LD to celebate wife."
> 
> 
> I know several LD husbands who wish their HD wives would stop hounding them for sex.
> ...



There is always an exception to the rule I guess.

A good friend of mine from high school has a HD wife and he is LD, so you got me there. I forgot about him.

In all the shops I've worked, my friends and family, relatives, none were married to near celebate husbands or wives. I know a guy who's almost 60 and he said to me, I need sex 3x each week from my wife or I'm gone. So they make time for sex 3x every week but he is very close to her, her best friend, always there for her, and they travel a lot, etc.

How's this then? Vaste majority of men have high sex drives were some do not.


And how can some women think men, even their husband who they love?!, only sees me as an orifice? Really?! There's obviously some issues that should of been addressed first, before getting married. That's a really sad attitude to have.

Remember, men have about 10x higher test compared to woman. What does high test do? Gives most men high sex drives, that's what. And he is your hubby, you supposedly love him right? You should want to have sex with him and often.

Do I see women and my wife, only using me an an emotional sponge? To talk about their days, stresses, lives and when they have dumped it all into me, they just leave and feel great? NO. She is my wife and I'm here for her.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Everyone has a different definition of HD/LD.


Thank you for that concession. 


In this form of evasion-as-concession, you pretend words do not have meanings so no discussion about the words can take place.

Except that's exactly what you've been doing for a lot of pages now.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> Thank you for that concession.
> 
> 
> In this form of evasion-as-concession, you pretend words do not have meanings so no discussion about the words can take place.
> ...


You lost me man. You're obviously highly intelligent and unfortunately for me,I'm not.  

There was no evasion. There was no concession. I never implied or pretended words don't have meanings. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"Remember, men have about 10x higher test compared to woman."

There are some estimates that at least 30% of the entire population are what is considered LD. That includes men. Also there are plenty of men who have extremely low T, yet still have high sex drives (ie: it doesn't always affect their sex drive to have low T). OTOH, there are some men with normal T who have low sex drives.

You are not going to hear men complaining about being LD.

But if you read enough message boards (there are some here too but many others) you will see plenty of stories of sad wives whose husbands are LD or zero D.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "Remember, men have about 10x higher test compared to woman."
> 
> There are some estimates that at least 30% of the entire population are what is considered LD. That includes men. Also there are plenty of men who have extremely low T, yet still have high sex drives (ie: it doesn't always affect their sex drive to have low T). OTOH, there are some men with normal T who have low sex drives.
> 
> ...



There was one married guy at the shop in his 40's with kids. He was always tired and not in the mood......went to his Dr. low test, got shots and now a new man. That's one guy out of 30+ men.

Some men with supposedly LD are secret porn addicts or are having affairs or they're very over weight and when they're fit again, bam, sex drive.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"Some men with supposedly LD are secret porn addicts or are having affairs."

This may be true, but as I said, I have personally known many truly LD men. They will not talk to other men about this.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Thank you for that concession.
> 
> 
> In this form of evasion-as-concession, you pretend words do not have meanings so no discussion about the words can take place.
> ...


Ok....you need to get laid.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> "That is what I just can't understand. I am utterly unaffected by this need that is displayed here and it baffles me.
> It's not the emotions I don't understand, it's WHY people feel them and why people WANT to feel them. That is what baffles me, and I don't think that has anything to do with any form of autism."
> 
> 
> ...


I think there is an important difference. I can communicate very, very well. Have always been able to. I can identify my emotions and can deal with them appropriately. Autistic people can't do either. Now I may not have as many emotions as other people, or my emotions may not seem appropriate to others, but that isn't relevant. I do understand that other people HAVE emotions, I just don't know WHY. Why are people so emotive and needy like they are? It seems like such an uncomfortable state to be in, very impractical. 


Typically those on the spectrum are very gifted in other ways, many function as geniuses in non social aspects. In a way, it seems as if they are not burdened by the mundane, their minds are freer to pursue higher things. They are not driven by emotional need into pursuing contact with other people and all the drama that entails. They get to skip all of that fluff. I do sort of envy them that. According to the self diagnosis tests I took prior to my referral, I'm off the friggin charts for an Aspie LOL. But according to my specialist, I'm barely on the spectrum. I'd claim affinity with the autism community if I could


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> When we were struggling, DH would say something similar. I didn't believe him because it doesn't make rational sense. Like, great, he has pleasure during sex. Wonderful. My body gives him pleasure. But so would ANY female body. He only wanted mine because that is the only one he had access to. He wanted SEX, not ME. There was nothing special about ME that gave him pleasure. You see what I mean? All men get pleasure from females, it doesn't matter at all who the body belongs to....all females are basically built the same, as far as sex goes. So when he would get all weepy and boo hoo about stuff like that, I totallly called bull****. It was just a game, he was trying to manipulate me and I outsmarted him. But I don't think he even knew he had fallen for such a stupid ruse. He probably even believed it at some level.


I was married to someone who actually made me feel like this.  I got together with him at highest drive point in my life, and he absolutely killed it. Sex was something I was SUPPOSED to do, EXPECTED to do, and he got angry if I turned him down. I had always been of the mindset that me sharing my body with you is a GIFT, you are in no way entitled to it, its my decision, my gift to give. He was not affectionate, unemotional, and sex was ZERO fun. I was just a body. I was young and stupid enough to think that maybe the commitment of marriage would help it to improve, and of course that was wrong. There came a point after our daughter was born that I decided I was never having sex with him again, and I didnt. (too much drinking, smoking, and going to bed dirty did NOT help his case)


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Can someone troll and not even know they're trolling?


I am not in agreement of LOTL but I believe these are her genuine thoughts.She has been very consistant on this.Maybe LTOL and her husband have reached that compromise.Maybe the both gave up more than they wanted to.Time will tell for them.

I am hoping they are at peace in thier relationship. For me it would be hard.I can't speak for him.I am sure the big reason he loves her is the strong will she demonstrates .She willing to put everything on the table to hold fast to her belief's.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LOTL said: "I can identify my emotions and can deal with them appropriately."

Yes, except, what you report to us here, is that you DO NOT HAVE strong emotions of any kind. The only emotion you've ever described having here, that sounded like a real emotion you actually felt, was anger. 

Which is still in line with the spectrum disorders. They can get quite angry and frustrated.

Those of us who freely and wonderfully feel our emotions, we who will write poetry about love or about lost love, those of us who can cry in joy when our spouse is making love to us slowly....can also easily identify and express our emotions and deal with them appropriately.

Yet you haven't described having any feeling or emotion that comes close to the emotions that "most" people are able to describe.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> I was married to someone who actually made me feel like this.  I got together with him at highest drive point in my life, and he absolutely killed it. Sex was something I was SUPPOSED to do, EXPECTED to do, and he got angry if I turned him down. I had always been of the mindset that me sharing my body with you is a GIFT, you are in no way entitled to it, its my decision, my gift to give. He was not affectionate, unemotional, and sex was ZERO fun. I was just a body. I was young and stupid enough to think that maybe the commitment of marriage would help it to improve, and of course that was wrong. There came a point after our daughter was born that I decided I was never having sex with him again, and I didnt. (too much drinking, smoking, and going to bed dirty did NOT help his case)


This is my question to the HD/LD dilemma
I question the concept in some cases .Other than the preexisting presence of some kind of condition (Mental or Physical) that would create a HD/LD scenario. I feel that the balance of desire if found in the emotional connection of two lovers. If that connection has been compromised then the desire from one for the other will diminish.

So I believe that the HD/LD thing is not inherent but rather developed in time and change of the dynamics of a relationship

Just my thoughts


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"So I believe that the HD/LD thing is not inherent but rather developed in time and change of the dynamics of a relationship."

All cases exist.

Some people are inherently HD or LD, by nature.

Some are HD or LD by childhood events or FOO issues, but might have been otherwise if not for those events.

Some are HD or LD, but it changes in a specific relationship for relationship reasons.

An HD person can be LD for another specific person, but still HD for sex. That is what 3xnocharm is describing in her previous marriage. She's HD no matter what, but she was LD for him because he was an ass.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

just got it 55 said:


> This is my question to the HD/LD dilemma
> I question the concept in some cases .Other than the preexisting presence of some kind of condition (Mental or Physical) that would create a HD/LD scenario. I feel that the balance of desire if found in the emotional connection of two lovers. If that connection has been compromised then the desire from one for the other will diminish.
> 
> So I believe that the HD/LD thing is not inherent but rather developed in time and change of the dynamics of a relationship
> ...


I think this is what happened to my marriage.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> "So I believe that the HD/LD thing is not inherent but rather developed in time and change of the dynamics of a relationship."
> 
> All cases exist.
> 
> ...


I guess I sort of qualified that in preexisting conditions in the "by nature"

I it's difficult to fathom (for me) as my wife & I seem to be the same or I hope that is the case


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Secondly, you state your wife has a good relationship. Yet in your first post you say this:


Actually he says his wife has had a good relationship - past tense. What's likely happening now is the aforementioned resentment has already set it, and he's detached to cope.

That his wife has experienced this shift and not bothered to step up her effort says tons about what she prioritizes in their marriage.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> It sounds to me like YOU are being the selfish one OP. YOU are damaging the relationship because your wife isn't interested in having sex. You want it anyway, so you are going to sabotage the marriage to punish her for not giving in to you. You think you know better than her. You think every thing will be fairy dust and roses if you just have more sex and that is bull crap. She will hate herself and eventually you if she submits to your wants in this. She does not want sex. She does not have a need for it. It is not important to her. It doesn't matter that you want it, because you can't force her to give it to you. Not legally.
> She doesn't need to have sex to have a happy and lasting relationship with you. She can love you and adore you and support you and care for you to your dying day and never ever want to touch you in that way again. YOU have to learn to accept that, because that is who she is.


I really don't believe that is the case. Sure, she may not find him lustworthy. But, she can choose to have sex with him anyways in recognition of his loyalty and service to her, and as a sign of respect for the marriage. Keep in mind that, at it's core, marriage is a sexual relationshp.

Saying that she will hate herself for having sex with someone she presumably loves is a real stretch. I would argue that if she's that sex averse and has that reaction, she probably has suffered from some sort of trauma or has serious sexual shame issues. The solution then would be to get some therapy for her issues.

The other possibility is that she simply does not like him that much. If that is the case, she is simply using him and he should get out and find someone with whom he is more compatible. Her claiming to value him as a husband without action to back that up is simply empty words.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> So instead SHE should lose everything because she doesn't share your same view of a "well balanced marriage"? You most certainly are NOT entitled to a sexual life.....that is a gift for someone to GiVE to you. If you are acting like this is something she owes you, like she has a debt to fill......there is your problem. Don't act like a sexual loan shark.....it seems so obvious, but apparently it isn't.
> She hasn't failed at anything, and your attitude stinks to high heaven of entitlement issues and lack of respect for your wife. It's no wonder you two are having issues.
> Putting her on a deserted island in a trailer park because she doesn't want to bang you? Get over yourself.


Seriously? The definition of a well-balanced marriage is one where both their needs are being met. His needs are not being met yet hers are; that is the epitome of unbalanced. 

He is not owed sex as you put it. He has "earned" it by being a faithful husband despite the dry spells and sexual neglect.

Let's put it this way: why do you feel that sex is optional in marriage? Why is it okay that he continue to provide for her and be unhappy while she is content? Why do you feel that a woman's needs should prevail over the man in this case?


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

DTO said:


> Seriously? The definition of a well-balanced marriage is one where both their needs are being met. His needs are not being met yet hers are; that is the epitome of unbalanced.
> 
> He is not owed sex as you put it. He has "earned" it by being a faithful husband despite the dry spells and sexual neglect.
> 
> Let's put it this way: why do you feel that sex is optional in marriage? Why is it okay that he continue to provide for her and be unhappy while she is content? Why do you feel that a woman's needs should prevail over the man in this case?


ROFL, you can't "earn" sex. You don't deserve it, you don't get to expect it and you certainly don't need it. It is a gift that should be given freely from one partner to the other, without expectations. It is not a right, it's a privilege. And it's a privilege that gets taken for granted as though it were a right, and therefore the privilege is revoked. Simple.

I feel sex is optional because it is unimportant, especially when one partner is not interested. If both are and agree to it, fine. If one isn't, there is no ethical or moral way for them to be made to give in. If they *choose* to give in to the HD partner, that is their prerogative, if they can live with that. If not, then the HD partner has the onus to accommodate the needs of the LD since there is no other alternative. I don't feel it's a man vs woman issue. I believe its a human rights issue. The right to total control over one's own body in all circumstances

In this case, it's his own choice to be unhappy. Rather than accepting his wife for who she is, he is trying to force her to change and that will never work. You can't change anyone but yourself. He needs to come to terms with his circumstances and he will be content.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> LOTL said: "I can identify my emotions and can deal with them appropriately."
> 
> Yes, except, what you report to us here, is that you DO NOT HAVE strong emotions of any kind. The only emotion you've ever described having here, that sounded like a real emotion you actually felt, was anger.
> 
> ...


I do have emotions. I can identify them. I just think they are unimportant and don't pay much attention to them. And that isn't even a conscious thing, I feel something, I acknowledge it, I move on. I don't know how else to describe how much I just don't care about feelings. They are so intangible, so transient, so changeable....I see no purpose in putting any importance in them at all. I suppose the only time I do react with visible emotion is the few times I feel fear, in an instinctual response to danger, and when my senses are overwhelmed and I react in anger. The only other time I can think of that was a different feeling that was strong was when my son was very young and got locked in the garage while I had locked myself out of the house. I felt such an intense emotion....anger and fear combined, plus a desire to reach him at all costs...I felt like I could literally tear the house down brick by brick with my fingers....I broke a window to get to him. It was a strange thing to experience. 

But as for what you describe, "freely and wonderfully" feeling emotions...that doesn't even appeal to me. How embarrassing to be going on about emotions and feelings....and other people actually knowing what you are feeling? No no, I don't want that at all. No one needs to know what goes on in my head, that is my own business, tyvm.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> But as for what you describe, "freely and wonderfully" feeling emotions...that doesn't even appeal to me. *How embarrassing to be going on about emotions and feelings*....and other people actually knowing what you are feeling? No no, I don't want that at all. No one needs to know what goes on in my head, that is my own business, tyvm.


Well, this is the whole point... you find it embarrassing. We do not. We love expressing these emotions to our spouses. We love acknowledging these feelings, and acting on them, basking in them. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can honestly say that those emotions you dismiss so easily..for my husband and me, they help us bond.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> HD's CAN change, they just don't want to give up sex. They won't lose anything if they do, it won't affect them in any negative way at all. But they just won't give up the "prize" they think they are entitled to.
> 
> Your wife accepts you and validates you by being with you every single day. She is with you when you are grumpy and miserable, when you are sick, when you haven't showered and when your mother is giving her a hard time. She picks up your dirty socks and washes your underwear, she buys you your favourite food and cooks you a special meal. She reminds you to make your Dr appt because she is worried about that cough and sets out your vitamins and makes you take a walk with her so you don't get high blood pressure. She worries when you don't call and get's scared when you are driving in a snowstorm. She yells at you for texting and driving and tells you you need to take a vacation and get away for awhile. She LOVES YOU. Every day. THAT is marriage. THAT is validation. That is how she shows how much you mean to her. Not by lying on her back, counting ceiling tiles and wishing your dong would fall off.
> 
> HD's are only distressed if they choose to be. If they looked at sex as a minor want and not a need and just settled down into the business of living, they'd be much more content. The power for their own contentment lies within them. They give their own power away by insisting on something they cannot have from their LD spouse.


Just wow. LD women have legitimate, autonomous, hormone-driven reactions surrounding sex that must be accomodated. HD guys, OTOH, are just making it up and should get over themselves. Study biology much?

I think you need to do some research into the matter. You are basically saying that libido is a sham and medical science is wrong. Did you know that guys have ampulla which store mature sperm? Did you know a hormonal signal goes off they're full (every three days)? Same thing happens when the seminal vesicles fill (which can happen in one day).

You're basically setting a really bad double standard. A lady's hormonal reaction should be respected, but guys should suck it up and ignore their own.

What you describe above are two friends who care deeply for each other. It is not marriage, which (again) is an inherently sexual relationship. And, in many cases, the reason the woman sticks around and does that is because she knows her chances of getting a new romantic partner without the prospect of sex are minimal.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> So if the LD gives in and the HD gets their way, does that make the HD the selfish one?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not unless he's getting his way all (or almost all) of the time. My take in such a situation is that both partners cannot be happy at the same time in the sexual realm. One will be happy as the other is unhappy.

The only fair solution is to do a 50/50 split.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Well I don't know about you but there was nothing in my marriage vows about being open to his sexual beck and call. Not at all. Something in there about better or worse, sickness and health, death do us part. Private w*ore? Nope...pretty sure I would have noticed that. (I removed the "obey" FWIW). I didn't promise to do anything that I didn't want to do and *neither did he*. I didn't want to have sex, so I didn't. I broke no promise. I promised to stay with him and I have and will. No slot openings here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay, what about "to have and to hold"? You do understand what "to have" means, right?

ETA: I think it's important to point out (in your support) is that you are allowing him the same freedom to do or not do as he pleases (as I bolded above). So, if there was something you wanted from him that he chose to not provide, you would accept that and move on?

If that (and you telling him up front that you weren't interested in sex) is true, then your situation is not the norm. In contrast to your situation, mine (for instance) was one where ex used sex to lure me but eventually said she expected me to set aside my sexual expectations. I noted that was a big sacrifice and she should reduce her expectations of me accordingly. That was unacceptable to her; her attitude was that I should give up sex while treating her as good as ever.

My experience is far closer to the norm for these sorts of issues. That fact is part of the reason you are getting so much push back from the other posters here.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> But the HD doesn't want it both ways do they? They want EVERYTHING from the LD, even that which they have chosen not to give. The HD wants it one way, their way. They are no better than the characterized LD here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Untrue, at least for some of the HDs. I, for one, would have been content with my ex doing a 50/50 split with me. We could have split our together time equally into time when we did what she wanted and time where we did what I wanted.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Wow....did this thread go south. Thought I would join in. I really don't believe there is such a thing as HD and LD really...we all basically have the same anatomically similar bodies except some are female and some are male. I do believe that some peoples hormone levels are at different levels (due to physical, emotional, and nutritional health) and this definately affects their sex drive. What I don't understand is why people just accept that they have a "low" sex drive...it really isn't normal. There are physical, emotional and nutritional causes for a low sex drive. Just my thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

mineforever said:


> Wow....did this thread go south. Thought I would join in. I really don't believe there is such a thing as HD and LD really...we all basically have the same anatomically similar bodies except some are female and some are male. I do believe that some peoples hormone levels are at different levels (due to physical, emotional, and nutritional health) and this definately affects their sex drive. What I don't understand is why people just accept that they have a "low" sex drive...it really isn't normal. There are physical, emotional and nutritional causes for a low sex drive. Just my thoughts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutly my thoughts as well

WE are all human animals just the top of the food chain sex is primal


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Originally Posted by LadyOfTheLake View Post 
Sex isn't a basic need.

We still need 2,000.000 years of evolution before that is true


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I do have emotions. I can identify them. I just think they are unimportant and don't pay much attention to them. And that isn't even a conscious thing, I feel something, I acknowledge it, I move on. I don't know how else to describe how much I just don't care about feelings. They are so intangible, so transient, so changeable....I see no purpose in putting any importance in them at all. I suppose the only time I do react with visible emotion is the few times I feel fear, in an instinctual response to danger, and when my senses are overwhelmed and I react in anger. The only other time I can think of that was a different feeling that was strong was when my son was very young and got locked in the garage while I had locked myself out of the house. I felt such an intense emotion....anger and fear combined, plus a desire to reach him at all costs...I felt like I could literally tear the house down brick by brick with my fingers....I broke a window to get to him. It was a strange thing to experience.
> 
> But as for what you describe, "freely and wonderfully" feeling emotions...that doesn't even appeal to me. How embarrassing to be going on about emotions and feelings....and other people actually knowing what you are feeling? No no, I don't want that at all. No one needs to know what goes on in my head, that is my own business, tyvm.


I can live like you describe... and did, for many years. I don't have Aspergers, but I did have a huge emotional disconnect going in my life, and a therapist kept telling me I was "missing" out on something. 

I did "see the light" and I did feel emotions. It can change, for people. That's how you are, today. Unless do you have Aspergers or some other label that prevents you from feeling these things.


but it is important to many of us. And does drive our choices, in life, the same way logic drives yours. Just a different source.


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