# How to increase spontaneous desire?



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

How does a husband increase spontaneous desire from his spouse in a long term relationship?

I have managed to turn starfish sex into consistent and excellent sex, but it is always after I awaken her responsive desire. This is very difficult to do because the onus is completely on me. It took me years to overcome the fact that my wife was responsive desire. I always thought both parties could and should come to the party horny. Such is not the case and I successfully worked my way through and around this.

In my opinion, the next step is to somehow increase spontaneous desire. Maybe it's a stupid question, and a pipe dream at 55 years old, but to me, it's the next logical step in our sexual relationship.

So, again, how does one increase spontaneous desire in a responsive desire spouse who does not like talking about sex?

For the ladies, is there something your man can say, do or whatever that increases your spontaneous desire for him?

Guys, is there anything you have done that has increased your wifes spontaneous desire? Anything??

Maybe the answer to my question is to not need or require spontaneous desire from your spouse. If that's the answer, than I guess I've reached my limit.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> How does a husband increase spontaneous desire from his spouse in a long term relationship?
> 
> I have managed to turn starfish sex into consistent and excellent sex, but it is always after I awaken her responsive desire. This was very difficult to do because the onus is completely on me. It took me years to overcome the fact that my wife was responsive desire. I always thought both parties could and should come to the party horny. Such is not the case and I successfully worked my way through and around this.
> 
> ...


What you are asking is actually responsive desire...what can he say or do to get her thinking about sex...



> Guys, is there anything you have done that has increased your wifes spontaneous desire? Anything??
> 
> *Maybe the answer to my question is to not need or require spontaneous desire from your spouse*.


I have come to this conclusion for myself, and my marriage.



> If that's the answer, than I guess I've reached my limit.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

If your W is responsive desire and requires you to get her going, I am not sure there is much else you can do. Obviously can't force her to suddenly become horny and jump your bones. I do feel for you though b/c I am in a similar situation as you, and TBH at times it is flat out tiring knowing the onus is on yourself (enough so that at times I just pass on starting something).


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> What you are asking is actually responsive desire...what can he say or do to get her thinking about sex...


Let me explain my understanding of it. 

Responsive desire: She comes to bed tired and not really thinking about sex other than the fact that it's Tuesday or Friday and it's time to have sex. Midway through talking about this new recipe on pintrist she starts sucking on me. I can somehow, in a few minutes get her to forget about food and start moaning. Fine.

Spontaneous desire: She thinks about sex WAY BEFORE I start licking her private parts.

Maybe my definition is messed up, but that's the way I view it. I guess when it comes to brass tacks, like you said, it's really all responsive desire. However, I would love the response a bit SOONER and EARLIER in the process, if possible.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

To expand on the above...my wife is very much responsive desire in that she is always ready, and enthusiastically willing, but will very seldom, to almost never initiate it herself beyond simply asking me if I feel like having sex...and doing it in such a way as to not imply that she really does.

We have had conversations where I have let her know the things that turn me on the most, the things that make me feel the most sexually desirous of her, and she struggles with it quite a bit. I have largely given up ever regularly receiving those things because it was not worth the continued frustration. The side affect that though is that now, when she does those things, they pretty much have no affect on me any more, and while we still have a frequent and top shelf sex life, I no longer feel the hunger for it in the same way, and many days, I find myself in a place of indifference as to whether I want sex or not.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> If your W is responsive desire and requires you to get her going, I am not sure there is much else you can do. Obviously can't force her to suddenly become horny and jump your bones. I do feel for you though b/c I am in a similar situation as you, and TBH at times it is flat out tiring knowing the onus is on yourself (enough so that at times I just pass on starting something).


Which is why at 55 years of age I am pumping myself full of testosterone, Viagra, porn (without masturbating) and wine to get MYSELF going, because I'm going to need all the manliness I can muster.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> To expand on the above...my wife is very much responsive desire in that she is always ready, and enthusiastically willing, but will very seldom, to almost never initiate it herself beyond simply asking me if I feel like having sex...and doing it in such a way as to not imply that she really does.
> 
> We have had conversations where I have let her know the things that turn me on the most, the things that make me feel the most sexually desirous of her, and she struggles with it quite a bit. I have largely given up ever regularly receiving those things because it was not worth the continued frustration. The side affect that though is that now, when she does those things, they pretty much have no affect on me any more, and while we still have a frequent and top shelf sex life, I no longer feel the hunger for it in the same way, and many days, I find myself in a place of indifference as to whether I want sex or not.


That is exactly what I am trying to avoid. Maybe it is a pipe dream.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Let's use this analogy.

My wife is a car with a manual choke. Before I start her up I MUST pull on the choke or she will not start.

I would like to convert her to fuel injection.....if possible


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

UMP said:


> Let me explain my understanding of it.
> 
> Responsive desire: She comes to bed tired and not really thinking about sex other than the fact that it's Tuesday or Friday and it's time to have sex. * Midway through talking about this new recipe on pintrist she starts sucking on me.* I can somehow, in a few minutes get her to forget about food and start moaning. Fine.
> 
> ...


Doesn't the bolded indicate spontaneity?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

There may not be much you can do about this, but there is one thing that sometimes works for some women who lose their spontaneous desire with age and decreasing hormones. If she will apply a prescription low-dose testosterone cream daily, this may have the desired effect occasionally, and if nothing else may improve her responsive desire. (Usually, this is combined with estradiol patches and/or progesterone pills.) This is a discussion for a hormone specialist, though.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Kind of a tangent story here, but my wife and step daughter were talking, and my step daughter was complaining about how her boyfriend always wants to cuddle in bed for a few minutes in the morning when they wake up, and how she just wanted to get on with her day, and it annoys her. This was one of those rare occasions I piped up and gave some sage fatherly advice...

What her boyfriend is asking her for, something he finds very comforting and bonding, something that would take almost no effort on her part to provide... She need carefully consider that while she is perfectly in her rights to feel annoyed, frustrated, that her refusal will lead to this being one less thing holding their bond together for him. That relationships are hard enough to keep together without purposely closing the easiest doors to intimacy. My wife asked me later if I was also talking to her her, and I think the look on my face answered her question.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I don't think you can expect spontaneous desire from someone with responsive desire.

We've been working on this but it turns into a chore for her which is the opposite of what I'm looking for. As in "I was thinking about xxxx sex today (like you want me to). Parens added - that's what she's really saying.

But, and it's a big butt, responsive desire is fine if your spouse is also accommodating. If you know her favorite thing to do then start with that. W loves bj so worse case scenario I ask her to do just a little... starts as an accommodation and very quickly she's enjoying it. But I didn't know this for YEARS - so now I am very forward and insistent - but nice - and the problem is solved. But the spouse has to be nice enough to want your happiness first. 


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> What her boyfriend is asking her for, something he finds very comforting and bonding, something that would take almost no effort on her part to provide... She need carefully consider that while she is perfectly in her rights to feel annoyed, frustrated, that her refusal will lead to this being one less thing holding their bond together for him. That relationships are hard enough to keep together without purposely closing the easiest doors to intimacy. My wife asked me later if I was also talking to her her, and I think the look on my face answered her question.


You did your step-daughter a favor by speaking up.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

You can't, she can.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You want your responsive desire wives to become more spontaneous and take some of the burden off of you to always light the fire. 

You want her to want sex with you as much as you want sex with her and you want her to demonstrate this how? By intentionally seducing you? By doing things that turn you on before you've had the chance to do things that turn her on?

Do you want the behavior or the motivation? Can the motivation be because it would make you happy? Or does the motivation have to be because she wants to have sex with you?

For years I complained to my H that he didn't compliment me and it hurt that I had to 1. Bring this to his attention in the first place. 2. Tell him why it was important to me. 3. Provide him the words to use. 4. Prompts him to say the words. Not to mention the defensive and minimizing reaction I got from him each time we had this discussion... As predicted, when he finally learned the words, figured out the times when it was normal to compliment, was able to make it sound authentic, I knew I was hearing what I had taught him to say and not hearing spontaneous expressions of admiration. IOW, all that effort produced a result that was tainted with disbelief. I had to then learn to let it go. I had to consciously decide to believe his honest intent was to convey his honest feelings. Each and every time. 

It did not mean that I got what I originally wanted, because I didn't. What I ended up with though was at least better than what I started with because I decided what I got was enough and the rest was up to me. 

I pretend he has said something spontaneous and uncoached. I pretend he actually feels what he says. I pretend that I believe him. I fake it.

Be careful what you wish for.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> You want your responsive desire wives to become more spontaneous and take some of the burden off of you to always light the fire.
> 
> You want her to want sex with you as much as you want sex with her and you want her to demonstrate this how? By intentionally seducing you? By doing things that turn you on before you've had the chance to do things that turn her on?
> 
> ...


For me, I realize it is an intentional effort from her, and I appreciate it. It's just that now, I have essentially suppressed that desire and need to hear those things from her so deep as to make them something that I am completely ambivalent towards now. They do nothing for me beyond me giving the obligatory smile and thank you in recognition of her effort. There was a time that hearing it would have stirred very intense positive feelings in me.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

UMP said:


> Which is why at 55 years of age I am pumping myself full of testosterone, Viagra, porn (without masturbating) and wine to get MYSELF going, because I'm going to need all the manliness I can muster.


Lol, that is quite the pre workout stack.

I just don't think you can make someone spontaneously think about sex in the way that you want it. Maybe ask if she would be willing to initiate more, but even then she may be doing more for you then b/c she is having lustful thoughts of you. You could possibly try harvesting your pheromones, spray them everywhere in your house and hope her primal instincts kick in :grin2:


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

> So, again, how does one increase spontaneous desire in a responsive desire spouse who does not like talking about sex?


There is a way, but this is your major stumbling block. 

What I am confused about, if you need so much preparation to get things started, I can understand why your wife has gotten into the habit of allowing you to lead the way, being only responsive to your advances - it's safe. Although it may be a bit awkward at first, and since schedule sex works for you, why not try scheduling initiation - turn taking. Maybe it will lead onto something, given time, as she gains confidence and sees you responding to her sexuality.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

peacem said:


> There is a way, but this is your major stumbling block.
> 
> What I am confused about, if you need so much preparation to get things started, I can understand why your wife has gotten into the habit of allowing you to lead the way, being only responsive to your advances - it's safe. Although it may be a bit awkward at first, and since schedule sex works for you, why not try scheduling initiation - turn taking. Maybe it will lead onto something, given time, as she gains confidence and sees you responding to her sexuality.




That's a really good idea. We switched to planned sex about 18 months ago and it's really reduced the stress. Something every night (ha ha now I have to prepare too). But I like the idea of giving her a couple of nights a month to decide what to do. She decided and just let me know if it's a particular time or place or whatever (small or large) plan she wants to do. That might make it very low stress.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This seems very strange to me. 
She starts giving you head while talking about recopies. That sounds exactly like spontaneous desire. She only gets physically aroused when you go down on her. 

I'm not sure what you are looking for. It seems that she is giving you spontaneous sex. 


I would call is responsive desire if she has no interest in sex until you have been paying her some attention, maybe a back rub, or kissing, touching, talking. Eventually her desire rises to the point where she is happy to have you perform oral on her - then maybe gets aroused enough to do things for you.









UMP said:


> Let me explain my understanding of it.
> 
> Responsive desire: She comes to bed tired and not really thinking about sex other than the fact that it's Tuesday or Friday and it's time to have sex. Midway through talking about this new recipe on pintrist she starts sucking on me. I can somehow, in a few minutes get her to forget about food and start moaning. Fine.
> 
> ...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

samyeagar said:


> To expand on the above...my wife is very much responsive desire in that she is always ready, and enthusiastically willing, but will very seldom, to almost never initiate it herself beyond simply asking me if I feel like having sex...and doing it in such a way as to not imply that she really does.
> 
> We have had conversations where I have let her know the things that turn me on the most, the things that make me feel the most sexually desirous of her, and she struggles with it quite a bit. I have largely given up ever regularly receiving those things because it was not worth the continued frustration. The side affect that though is that now, when she does those things, they pretty much have no affect on me any more, and while we still have a frequent and top shelf sex life, I no longer feel the hunger for it in the same way, and many days, I find myself in a place of indifference as to whether I want sex or not.


I find myself in this very same boat these days, and probably for the last year or so. Every now and again, I realize it, and I feel kind of sad, and start thinking "it's not supposed to be this way".

I know we've discussed this in the past, Sam - that our wives are practically clones of each other. Each one is willing to have sex with us, they're both right into it, and thus the sex is good/great, etc. It's just that there's no desire shown to us.

We both also know ( I THINK we know...) that they're not doing it for us - they're getting a lot out of it, too. But not the same things we are. I know the way my wife views it is as sex, for the sake of sex. She doesn't view all the other things (flirting, teasing, initiating, etc.) as part of the big picture.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

UMP said:


> Let's use this analogy.
> 
> My wife is a car with a manual choke. Before I start her up I MUST pull on the choke or she will not start.
> 
> I would like to convert her to fuel injection.....if possible


I understand what you're talking about, and I continue to wonder the same thing, myself.

Simply put, I can't fathom the way my wife works, in terms of nothing turning her on, so to speak. Even though I believe what she says, it still doesn't sound plausible to me.

My wife will tell you, nothing gets her sexually excited - except having sex. There's no such thing as being "in the mood". She doesn't get sexually frustrated if it's been a while, or I'm not around. Nothing turns her on externally, or internally.

I found this hard to believe at first, but over time she's done nothing, shown nothing, said nothing to disprove this.

She doesn't have a 'type', she has no physical preferences, there's nothing visual about her. Being sexual with her does nothing, nor does flirting, being romantic, even being blunt. Doesn't matter. Her sexuality is an on/off switch with no definable reason or motivation to turn on. It's a conscious decision, that often doesn't occur to her.

However, once the switch is 'on', she's a different person almost. I've been through this before on TAM. And for 10, 15, 20 minutes, once a week or so, she can't get enough.

But I get you (and Sam, too) - not having anything else even remotely sexual outside of this time is difficult.

For me, it's living and spending time with someone who I know loves me, but yet has no desire for me (or anybody else) - outside of that time.

My ex wife, as bad a person and a match for me as she was, would get turned on by things, or ME. There was sexuality in the air, outside of the actual act of sex. Teasing, playfulness, etc.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

peacem said:


> There is a way, but this is your major stumbling block.
> 
> What I am confused about, if you need so much preparation to get things started, I can understand why your wife has gotten into the habit of allowing you to lead the way, being only responsive to your advances - it's safe. Although it may be a bit awkward at first, and since schedule sex works for you, why not try scheduling initiation - turn taking. Maybe it will lead onto something, given time, as she gains confidence and sees you responding to her sexuality.


I agree with this.

I think it's a case of 'be careful what you wish for', too. IF it's possible to awaken one's sexual desires, then the flood gates may open.

Case in point - and not directly related to this topic at hand, but nonetheless - my ex wife was very submissive when it came to sex in the early days. She did not quite have the confidence in herself (primarily body image issues), among other things.

Over time, she lost quite a bit of weight - and it's worth mentioning she was not 'fat' to begin with - and dressed for her body (as opposed to dressing to hide things). She started wearing makeup, as well. She went from attractive 'girl next door' to 'head turner' in less than a year. This prompted a lot of outside attention, and gave her confidence in herself, and her body.

Then the floodgates opened. Sex with me increased 10-fold. But then she also started comparing me to the calibre of men that were showing her interest elsewhere, and in her eyes, she decided she could do better.

So yeah, be careful.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

UMP said:


> Guys, is there anything you have done that has increased your wifes spontaneous desire? Anything??


 @UMP This is a very good question, and I'll admit I feel very similar to what you described about your wife's responsive desire requiring so much work. 

Instead of thinking about helping her with "spontaneous desire" you should instead think of it as helping your wife work on her "responsive sexual curiosities." Find a novel idea that you know your wife will respond to, and share that with her verbally. Do NOT attempt to demonstrate this idea arbitrarily, but wait for her to ask questions. Then brag about the idea, but still refrain from demonstrating. Then simply give her enough space until she is compelled to explore this idea on her own. 

Here is an example. Many women find the combination of a textured glass dildo used in combination with an external vibrator to be very likely to create a "blended orgasm." This would be an orgasm that occurs from both simultaneous g-spot and clitoral stimulation. So get your wife aroused, and then have this conversation with her and do whatever it takes to make sure she would be interested and might want to try this one day. THEN sacrifice your own pleasure and tell your wife that you are aroused but that you want to try something new. You are going to leave the house to go get some take out food and a good movie to watch. Meanwhile surprise her by telling her that there is a brand new glass dildo and vibrator under her pillow that you would enjoy knowing that she is playing with those on her own while you step out of the house. 

Then when you get back odds are she is going to have an exciting story to tell you, and you will get to experience what it feels like for YOU to have a responsive desire when she "thanks you" for getting her a gift and giving her a little space to enjoy it on her own. Odds are you might even get a demonstration and find out that she has been waiting to share her grand finaly with you! 

So think of things that you can do to make her sexually curious, apply a little shock and awe, and then give her some space! While this still requires work on your behalf, you want to condition her to enjoy being curious and discover how rewarding it can be once she feels compelled to act on these feelings of curiosity. Once that happens, keep working on it and then one day SHE will surprise you out of nowhere by dragging you to the bedroom and asking for something fun!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

alexm said:


> I find myself in this very same boat these days, and probably for the last year or so. Every now and again, I realize it, and I feel kind of sad, and start thinking "it's not supposed to be this way".
> 
> I know we've discussed this in the past, Sam - that our wives are practically clones of each other. Each one is willing to have sex with us, they're both right into it, and thus the sex is good/great, etc. It's just that there's no desire shown to us.
> 
> We both also know ( I THINK we know...) that they're not doing it for us - they're getting a lot out of it, too. But not the same things we are. I know the way my wife views it is as sex, for the sake of sex. She doesn't view all the other things (flirting, teasing, initiating, etc.) as part of the big picture.


It truly baffles me sometimes. There is no question that my wife is very sexual, and gets a lot out of having sex. I think we are probably at a higher frequency than you and your wife are, but there are indeed some striking similarities...most notably I think is the whole sex for the sake of sex, and how we can have a mind blowing session, best ever in her own words, and then ten minutes later, it's as if she doesn't remember it happening. The good thing about how she is is that I am very confident we will never even come close to having a sexless marriage.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

UMP said:


> For the ladies, is there something your man can say, do or whatever that increases your spontaneous desire for him?


Sure. He could send Brad Pitt to pinch-hit for him. :grin2:


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> You want your responsive desire wives to become more spontaneous and take some of the burden off of you to always light the fire.
> 
> You want her to want sex with you as much as you want sex with her and you want her to demonstrate this how? By intentionally seducing you? By doing things that turn you on before you've had the chance to do things that turn her on?
> 
> ...


Nice post.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with your view point.

I would prefer to be able change myself into the person that she could be spontaneous with. However, in years past I tried to pick her brain and asked her if there was anyone in the world that she could get sexually excited about. She answered no, but maybe Elvis.

I think I would need to turn into a combination of Elvis, Bill Gates and Bradley Cooper.....................I don't think so:surprise:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

@UMP I think you have said you have lost a lot of weight in recent years, is that correct?

Are you still overweight after losing some weight?

What I'm really getting at is, how do you look naked? Do you look as good as she looks? Do you think you can visually turn her on the way she can visually turn you on?

IMO, the whole "men are visual" thing is just a folk myth, created and perpetuated by men. It was a justification for men feeling entitled to oogle any and all women he found attractive (and was also justification for the rise of porn over time). But it was never true and there is no type of proof that visual/physical attraction is any more important to men than it is to women. It is just one of those things that people say but which is not a "fact".

So....do you look good naked? Are you fit and lean? Do you have plenty of muscles? Are you clean and hygienic, smell good, have nice clothes (even if casual) and shoes, hair trimmed (including nose, ears, neck, etc)?

If you aren't all of these, this is where you could start.

You can't rule this out until you have actually done it. It is great to have lost some weight, but that's not good enough, really. You have to be as fit and healthy as you can possibly be before you will know how you can visually affect her.

If there is anything that can possibly turn on her spontaneous desire, it would be your physical appearance. I can't keep my eyes off my man. I love when he is fully clothed, partially clothed, or naked. In all of these states, I get a different and delightful view of him. I buy him sexy underwear and then delight in seeing them on him while he gets ready in the morning. Other times I delight in seeing him in his professional clothes, with a beautiful shirt and slacks and excellent shoes. And yet other times, I swoon when seeing him in his snow gear on a pair of skis, whooshing down the mountain like a pro. And then there are the times I get to watch him chop wood (I usually ask him to take off his jacket and put on a tank top  ).

Would I be so visually turned on by him and watch him do all of these things if he wasn't as physically hot to me?

No, I wouldn't. I would still have spontaneous desire...but it would be sort of unfocused desire, not specifically about him.

And I know for certain, because I do have a lot of spontaneous desire, that his physical beauty is one of the main triggers of that desire. It is always bubbling just below the surface for me, and it doesn't take much to make me start feeling horny....however, seeing him and feeling physical and sexual attraction to him (without him doing anything except stand there) gets me revved up to the point that I usually can't help myself from running over and jumping on him. If we don't have time for sex, I at least want to make out with him for a little while and climb on him and mash my body on his.

I have to actively NOT look at him that way if I'm trying to get out the door in time for something or if I don't want to get horny. So most of the time, I keep my eyes on "just observe" mode...but when I do have time to get busy or just feel horny, I put my eyes on "tigress" mode....and he literally looks different to me in these two modes.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

alexm said:


> I understand what you're talking about, and I continue to wonder the same thing, myself.
> 
> Simply put, I can't fathom the way my wife works, in terms of nothing turning her on, so to speak. Even though I believe what she says, it still doesn't sound plausible to me.
> 
> ...


Yep, this is pretty much exactly how I feel. Before the scheduled sex twice a week, it was even harder because my wife had no impetus to initiate. The schedule took care of that problem, but did not add any sexual inference outside of the 30 minutes twice a week. In fact, it probably lessened it because there is no need to suggest or infer to sex because we know the exact dates and times it will happen.

I know she loves me very deeply and would stick by me in the most horrible circumstances, which is great. Unfortunately, this does nothing to stir up sexual thoughts in me.

If I'm really honest about the situation my wife is only horny for the time her clit gets hard. She is one and done, so that does not last too long, maybe a couple minutes.

Sure, there are times when the stars line up and she's got that twinkle in her eye, but it is soooooooooooooooo hard to get that to happen. Maybe I was extra attentive in some area I have no idea about. The circumstances were just right at the right time. This happens less and less as the years go by and it makes me sad. It makes me want to just give up.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

uhtred said:


> This seems very strange to me.
> She starts giving you head while talking about recopies. That sounds exactly like spontaneous desire. She only gets physically aroused when you go down on her.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are looking for. It seems that she is giving you spontaneous sex.
> ...


No, 
It's more like a routine.  She does not go down on me because she can't wait to get it in her mouth, she goes there because that's what needs to be done. Before you can do x, you must first push button z and y. It's just a formula with nothing behind it until you get close to the finished product. (orgasm)

Maybe I'm being a bit pessimistic because the sex is good. I just wish there was some lust behind it.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> Nice post.
> 
> I understand what you are saying and I agree with your view point.
> 
> ...


This touches on probably the biggest frustration I have with all this. My wife has no problems verbalizing and externally expressing her attraction to other men...the latest with it being World Series time, being Kris Bryant of the Chicago Cubs...so I KNOW she can express things spontaneously, just not about me. What is really strange to me...a few weeks ago, my wife went with me on a photo shoot where I was modelling...several times during the shoot she had no problems telling me how hot and sexy I was in front of the people on set, and yeah, she was all over me the rest of the day...then last weekend, I was replacing the alternator on her mom's car, same dirty, sweaty, muscles, but no one else around, and nary a word...just reinforced the thoughts I have had about essentially being her show pony.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

This thread is very interesting and I want to reply to every post.

In between posts I've got lawyers and people wanting me to actually do work at work 

It's going to take me awhile.

Thanks !!!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> It makes me want to just give up.


I know you have said before that she will not talk about sex.

To me, that's the biggest problem. 

I can't think of any reason a grown ass adult would not or could not talk about their own sex life with their own sex partner. Any excuses or reasons they would give for not talking about it are just nonsense, IMO. 

If you don't want to push past this, I get that. That is your choice and I know others make it, too.

But I would never be able to handle the radio silence about sex. Good sex requires communication. Refusing to have that conversation is just silly. I know this may seem insensitive toward people who just can't or won't talk about sex...but I've known plenty of men (via their wives) who won't talk about it either, and the marriages where one or both will not talk about sex are the ones that are sexless or that one spouse is still unhappy even if there is sex.

I suppose if a person had CSA or other trauma surrounding sex, it would be that much harder to discuss it. But even in that case, I would still insist the spouse learn how to communicate about sex with their spouse. 

So besides getting into the best shape of your life, my other suggestion would be to TALK TO HER about sex, about your feelings, about all of these issues. What will she do? Run out the front door? Yell and scream and cry? If she does any of these things, just calmly and maturely explain to her that these are very childish reactions to a normal adult conversation and that you require conversation about your sex lives, period.

If she still refuses or just makes it so that the conversation goes sideways no matter what you do....then tell her you want to go to MC. If she refuses that, tell her you are going yourself, because YOU REQUIRE conversation about YOUR SEX LIFE. She is not the only one in this marriage and shouldn't be able to stonewall you for the entire length of your relationship about sex. The fact that you have allowed this for this long has made her just more and more reluctant to ever talk about sex. But you can turn it around, you just have to be much more brave than you have been in the past.

I know there are some here like @Cletus who are in similar shoes...but if I understand it correctly, Cletus has in the past forced such conversations, only to still come up to a dead end. At this point he is pretty apathetic about everything (including his wife). That is the price she has paid for her unwillingness to talk, and it makes sense that Cletus doesn't bother trying to talk to her anymore.

But as far as I understand your dilemma, you've been bullied into silence by her refusal to ever discuss sex. This is your main problem, IMO.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

My wife is also completely unable to talk about sex and is uncomfortable even asking for what she wants during sex.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> @UMP I think you have said you have lost a lot of weight in recent years, is that correct?
> 
> Are you still overweight after losing some weight?
> 
> ...


Thanks for your honest reply. 

I am 6' and currently weight 205. I did lose 45 pounds when I started this quest and it DID effect her positively. 

To be honest I have no problem with hygiene, clothes and general appearance, but I still have some weight to lose. To be the visual guy you are talking about I should weigh 185 pounds. That's 20 more pounds to go, which is a lot and might make a big difference.

I don't think I look as good as my wife naked. I NEED to get to 185. I do think I have muscle underneath:grin2:
I do a lot of farm work, but do not frequent a gym....lately.

What happens as your husband ages? When he is 60 or 70 years old, no matter how fit he is, he is not going to look like he did when he was 30 unless he is 1 in a million.

Bottom line, you are 100% right. How can I know if looking lean and mean will effect her spontaneous desire if I don't actually DO IT. I have no excuse other than being weak. I'll keep trying. Thanks!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

uhtred said:


> My wife is also completely unable to talk about sex and is uncomfortable even asking for what she wants during sex.


Same here. It makes her feel very uncomfortable. When I do say something about sex the very first thing she says while whispering is, "Where is (insert daughters name)"

She has suffered no abuse as a child. She did say that all her guy friends in high school would try to get a rise in her by talking about sex all the time. She had more guy friends than girlfriends in high school and was not promiscuous. Only had sex with her first boy friend of many years in college and then me. 

She did say that she had sex daily with her first boyfriend yet he still cheated on her constantly. She mentioned this fact because she could not figure out how he could still be cheating when they were f$cking like rabbits all the time.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I know you have said before that she will not talk about sex.
> 
> To me, that's the biggest problem.
> 
> ...


From what I can understand she was tormented by her guy friends in high school. She would not have sex with any of them, yet she still hung out and they pestered her with sexual innuendo to get a rise out of her.

Every time I try to bring up sex it ends up being a minus 1 for me. I have learned that if I keep my mouth shut she seems to anticipate more. However, lately it seems my scheduled sex is turning more into a routine than anything else.

What I do not want to do is start discussing my need for her to show more desire. I don't want her to do this just to placate me (kind of like Anon Pink's situation). I would prefer that it comes from her naturally. 

So, what I do is try things on the fly. I'll try to introduce a new position or try to say something different and it seems more often than not she is not into it. After trying this over and over again, I just go back to what I know works which is her on top cowgirl. 

Bottom line is I try EVERYTHING within my power to keep the sparks flying. I feel that I am at the end of my rope because she puts nothing into it other than showing up and having sex. The sex IS good but more often than not, it's the same thing over and over again.

To say it in a different way, I believe if something happened to me where I could not have sex again, she would be fine with it. 

I feel that it's more of a duty for her but it's a passion for me. Long term that reality seems to suck the passion out of me. In order for me to perform I take Testosterone daily, Viagra before sex and watch porn but never masturbate. This is necessary to get myself reved up enough so I can ignore her initial indifference.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I don't think you can expect spontaneous desire from someone with responsive desire.
> 
> We've been working on this but it turns into a chore for her which is the opposite of what I'm looking for. As in "I was thinking about xxxx sex today (like you want me to). Parens added - that's what she's really saying.
> 
> ...


I agree with that.

My go to for her is simply a back rub. This does absolutely nothing for me, but I do it to try and get her going. However, it seems that lately I need to do more and more to get her in the mood. If I became a professional masseur and worked on her for an hour with special oils maybe it might work better, but that's very difficult for me to do at this point.

My wife is like asking my son to go fishing. You have a date and time ready at 6:00am on a Saturday. You are all ready to go, fishing polls, bait, car, etc. and your son is still in bed asleep. Kind of a let down.

My dream is asking my son to go fishing. I get up and he is waiting for me with the car packed full of equipment and snacks with a big smile on his face.

Am I asking too much?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> From what I can understand she was tormented by her guy friends in high school. She would not have sex with any of them, yet she still hung out and they pestered her with sexual innuendo to get a rise out of her.
> 
> Every time I try to bring up sex it ends up being a minus 1 for me. I have learned that if I keep my mouth shut she seems to anticipate more. However, lately it seems my scheduled sex is turning more into a routine than anything else.


So you cannot openly discuss YOUR adult, committed, married sex life because some teen aged boys bullied your wife decades ago.

IMO, your wife is now bullying you to keep your mouth shut. She doesn't even know why she is doing this, but you have allowed it so she keeps up the emotionally bullying. "Don't you dare bring up sex or I will stonewall you" whether spoken or in action is bullying. She knows you will not challenge this.

WHY won't you challenge this?

Says something about you, do you see that?

I have to give props to Sam, Alex, and Anon Pink (sorry, too lazy to do the @ thingys). They too were bullied into not talking about sex with their partners, but they pushed past it anyway and insisted. They may not have gotten any answer they wanted, but they did get some form of an answer and they did stand up for themselves by insisting the issues they wanted to discuss were discussed. They now know that certain things they may have wanted from their spouse are not possible to get. They no longer sit and ponder and wonder all the time like you are doing (though I know they do still wish and hope things were different).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> Bottom line is I try EVERYTHING within my power to keep the sparks flying. I feel that I am at the end of my rope because she puts nothing into it other than showing up and having sex. The sex IS good but more often than not, it's the same thing over and over again..


You didn't reply to my other post.....have you ever been in tip top shape during your relationship with her? Do you have a nice, strong, fit body with minimal fat? Have you ever?

If no, then you have not tried "everything".

ETA.....sorry I did not see your reply before I posted this one.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> What happens as your husband ages? When he is 60 or 70 years old, no matter how fit he is, he is not going to look like he did when he was 30 unless he is 1 in a million.


Not my husband (though I felt just as attracted to him, he's now my ex-husband), I was talking about my boyfriend.

He is currently 54 years old. I'm crazy hot for him. I never said I wanted him to look 30. He looks his age and is super hot to me. He's a silver fox (that's my nick name for him). I don't know if we'll be together when we are 60 or 70 and I don't care because I'm only able to experience life in my NOW. And right NOW, he looks so yummy I have to not look at him if I don't want to get horny.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

alexm said:


> We both also know ( I THINK we know...) that they're not doing it for us - they're getting a lot out of it, too. But not the same things we are. I know the way my wife views it is as sex, for the sake of sex. She doesn't view all the other things (flirting, teasing, initiating, etc.) as part of the big picture.


Exactly.
There is no flirting, teasing or initiating. It's just sex on Tuesday and Friday. There is not even a mention of sex in any way shape or form even on sex day.
As the evening goes on I will say something like "I'm going to take a shower at 9:30" or she will say "I've opened up a bottle of wine, do you want a glass?" 
Then we both take showers, etc. etc. No talk of sex even when I'm rubbing her back, nothing.

Then it's hit button A to induce a reaction, then go to button B, etc. etc. REAL orgasms do occur, of this I am certain.

Afterwards she may say she is sore or I may ask if she enjoyed it and she will respond but with no specifics.

No mention of sex or anything sex related until next Tuesday or Friday. I stopped holding her hands or touching her to see if she misses it in between sex. Nope.
I even stopped saying I love you on a regular basis. No comment from her.

If you asked her how satisfying her sex life was, I would bet my bottom dollar she would say it's 100% satisfying.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> WHY won't you challenge this?


I did and it got me no where.
All it did was show her that I was needy in this regard, and turned her off more.

Maybe it would help if you give me some sort of outline on what you think I should talk about. I will tell you if I've done it and how it ended up.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Not sure I agree.
My wife seems legitimately very uncomfortable talking about sex, I don't think its bullying, so maybe UMP's wife isn't bullying either. 

"Talking about sex" with someone who doesn't want to talk is extremely difficult. It turns into a monologue while you get started at by someone who is clearly very uncomfortable. Questions get either no answer, or a non-committal answer: 

"What you would you like in bed today" "You know what I like". 

"Would you like XYZ tonight". "you can try", or "not tonight".


We use sex toys but I can't even get her to look at the website to pick what she wants to try. 

She is comfortable asking for a non-sexual massage, but never anything sexual. 


I think some women just can't get over the idea that good girls don't talk about sex, don't think about sex and aren't really supposed to enjoy sex. 






Faithful Wife said:


> So you cannot openly discuss YOUR adult, committed, married sex life because some teen aged boys bullied your wife decades ago.
> 
> IMO, your wife is now bullying you to keep your mouth shut. She doesn't even know why she is doing this, but you have allowed it so she keeps up the emotionally bullying. "Don't you dare bring up sex or I will stonewall you" whether spoken or in action is bullying. She knows you will not challenge this.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

M2 likes physically fighting - brawling. She just does. Likes being over powered. When we do that early evening, that turns her on.





UMP said:


> How does a husband increase spontaneous desire from his spouse in a long term relationship?
> 
> I have managed to turn starfish sex into consistent and excellent sex, but it is always after I awaken her responsive desire. This is very difficult to do because the onus is completely on me. It took me years to overcome the fact that my wife was responsive desire. I always thought both parties could and should come to the party horny. Such is not the case and I successfully worked my way through and around this.
> 
> ...


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not my husband (though I felt just as attracted to him, he's now my ex-husband), I was talking about my boyfriend.
> 
> He is currently 54 years old. I'm crazy hot for him. I never said I wanted him to look 30. He looks his age and is super hot to me. He's a silver fox (that's my nick name for him). I don't know if we'll be together when we are 60 or 70 and I don't care because I'm only able to experience life in my NOW. And right NOW, he looks so yummy I have to not look at him if I don't want to get horny.


I do agree that I can't know the answer to this unless I get to 185. I will give you that. However, keep in mind that I have been with this same woman for 27 years. Have gone through much trauma with my heart attack and mentally handicapped daughter. 

The question is, how can you compare your (fairly new?) boyfriend with my 27 year relationship? Is that comparing apples to apples? I am not trying to argue, just being honest.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

MEM2020 said:


> M2 likes physically fighting - brawling. She just does. Likes being over powered. When we do that early evening, that turns her on.


That's the problem. I would do this IF my wife would tell me or even give me a hint. I have even asked her and I get nothing.
That leaves me shooting in the dark on the fly. Not very productive.

Thanks for the idea though!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> This touches on probably the biggest frustration I have with all this. My wife has no problems verbalizing and externally expressing her attraction to other men...the latest with it being World Series time, being Kris Bryant of the Chicago Cubs...so I KNOW she can express things spontaneously, just not about me. What is really strange to me...a few weeks ago, my wife went with me on a photo shoot where I was modelling...several times during the shoot she had no problems telling me how hot and sexy I was in front of the people on set, and yeah, she was all over me the rest of the day...then last weekend, I was replacing the alternator on her mom's car, same dirty, sweaty, muscles, but no one else around, and nary a word...just reinforced the thoughts I have had about essentially being her show pony.



My wife is also sometimes like this. If we go out and she sees I'm getting a lot of looks from women it translates into her wanting me more. However, alone at home, nothing.

We don't get out much because of our mentally handicapped daughter


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

badsanta said:


> @UMP This is a very good question, and I'll admit I feel very similar to what you described about your wife's responsive desire requiring so much work.
> 
> Instead of thinking about helping her with "spontaneous desire" you should instead think of it as helping your wife work on her "responsive sexual curiosities." Find a novel idea that you know your wife will respond to, and share that with her verbally. Do NOT attempt to demonstrate this idea arbitrarily, but wait for her to ask questions. Then brag about the idea, but still refrain from demonstrating. Then simply give her enough space until she is compelled to explore this idea on her own.
> 
> ...


I have bought every toy there is. I have placed it where she can find it and even encouraged her to use it on her own. Nadda, zippo, ziltch.

Every single time I try to introduce something either verbally, or in real time it always ends up the same. 

It's like going to a restaurant with an encyclopedia as a menu. You would think that maybe once in a while she might want to order something new. Nope.
Wants the same meal every time.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> For me, I realize it is an intentional effort from her, and I appreciate it. It's just that now, I have essentially suppressed that desire and need to hear those things from her so deep as to make them something that I am completely ambivalent towards now. They do nothing for me beyond me giving the obligatory smile and thank you in recognition of her effort. There was a time that hearing it would have stirred very intense positive feelings in me.


This is what I feel is happening to me and I want to change it.

I want to always be "stirred into very intense positive feelings" but it's hard to keep the fire burning when I am the only one fanning the flames.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

peacem said:


> There is a way, but this is your major stumbling block.
> 
> What I am confused about, if you need so much preparation to get things started, I can understand why your wife has gotten into the habit of allowing you to lead the way, being only responsive to your advances - it's safe. Although it may be a bit awkward at first, and since schedule sex works for you, why not try scheduling initiation - turn taking. Maybe it will lead onto something, given time, as she gains confidence and sees you responding to her sexuality.


Not sure I agree with this. She is the type of person that after a time I would have to remind her that it's "been two weeks and you have not initiated." Her reply would be "you're kidding, it's been two weeks, ok can we have sex."

It simply would not work with her as the current dynamic stands.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

UMP said:


> If I'm really honest about the situation my wife is only horny for the time her clit gets hard. She is one and done, so that does not last too long, maybe a couple minutes.
> 
> Sure, there are times when the stars line up and she's got that twinkle in her eye, but it is soooooooooooooooo hard to get that to happen. Maybe I was extra attentive in some area I have no idea about. The circumstances were just right at the right time.


Yep, this and this.

Every now and again (blue moon?) I can tell my wife is... almost waiting for me to do something. There seems to be no rhyme or reason for it. It's like it just suddenly occurred to her, and I happen to be there. Like I said above - on/off switch suddenly comes on.

I can tell you when it does happen, I go with it, and don't think about it. Strike while the iron is hot. But then afterwards, or the next day, I'll run through my mind what I may have done, or what otherwise seemed to have gotten her in the mood. It's a fruitless exercise.

With my ex wife, I knew it was either me or an external source (a movie, a dream she had, a picture, a guy she saw at the gym (!!!!), that sort of thing). She got horny in the quote, unquote, normal way. The same way each of us does. My wife, on the other hand - no idea how she gets there.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> I do agree that I can't know the answer to this unless I get to 185. I will give you that. However, keep in mind that I have been with this same woman for 27 years. Have gone through much trauma with my heart attack and mentally handicapped daughter.
> 
> The question is, how can you compare your (fairly new?) boyfriend with my 27 year relationship? Is that comparing apples to apples? I am not trying to argue, just being honest.


Well, I can't really compare the two...but I can say that I was with my ex-husband for a total of 12.5 years, and I was HOT for him every single day....no matter what was happening between us, which included trauma, tragedy and fighting like wild cats at times, I was still physically hot for him. And I'm just talking about his body, his scent, his hair, his face, his mannerisms, etc. I'm not even going to count how extra hot I was for him due to our sex life being so good. There was never one moment I looked at him without seeing his natural masculine beauty. Keeping in mind, he is fit and that never changed during our relationship. (If anything, he got more muscular).

And I can also say that I can't imagine not feeling that way for another 14.5 years with him had we stayed together. I see him now, 6 months post D and still see his natural beauty and admire it.

As for my boyfriend...I have no reason to believe I wouldn't feel the same as long as he looks as fit as he does now or better.

IF either my ex or my bf gained weight and lost muscle, I would lose bits of my attraction for them in direct proportion to how much they gained fat or lost muscle. A little...I would lose a little attraction. A lot...I would lose a lot of attraction and possibly wouldn't feel much attraction at all other than mental and emotional.

Oh and one more thing....

Neither my ex nor my bf are perfect Adonis specimens. They are fit but not chiseled. They do have some body fat. But they both are big guys with lots of mature lean muscle all over their bodies and either could lift me over their heads with no problem. That's why I like the big strong guys. I need some circus sex sometimes.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

UMP said:


> I have bought every toy there is. I have placed it where she can find it and even encouraged her to use it on her own. Nadda, zippo, ziltch.
> 
> Every single time I try to introduce something either verbally, or in real time it always ends up the same.
> 
> ...


I was reading this thread and I found myself thinking, you have always talked about a rather elaborate routine that you put yourself through in order to give your wife an outstanding performance in bed. In the event she were to develop a spontaneous desire and want something new on the menu, in my opinion this might end up leading to a rather awkward experience where you might experience anorgasmia and/or very limited enjoyment. Obviously experiencing her wanting something new and fun would be exciting, but if the timing of this was not ideal for you it would likely end in frustration. 

*MY ADVICE:* If you already know your wife will want the same entree regardless of the menu option that are presented to her, perhaps you might want to try and *alter foreplay*. Sex starts outside the bedroom. Perhaps you can teach her to enjoy teasing you during moments when sex is not scheduled as a way to mess with your head and have fun as a couple. My wife really enjoys this, especially when opportunities for sex are going to be impossible. She really enjoys seeing how worked up she can get me and watching me squirm, and I have taught her how to enjoy doing this to me as a way for her to test how beautiful and sexy that I think she is to me. So when she sees me suffering with a huge smile on my face, it is like the ultimate compliment for her to enjoy!

Hope that helps!

Badsanta


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> This is what I feel is happening to me and I want to change it.
> 
> I want to always be "stirred into very intense positive feelings" but it's hard to keep the fire burning when I am the only one fanning the flames.


For me, I can liken it to the "love bank" idea where there are things she can do that are huge deposits into my attraction bank, desire bank, lust bank, or what have you...the bank that makes me feel attractive to her. I have made those things plainly known, and told her explicitly the impact they have on me, as well as the impacts of things that make withdraws from the bank, and she has greatly improved with respect to the withdraws, but has simply not been able to make the deposits. I have considered the possibility that it might even be intentional on her part, but given that she is always ready, willing, and enthusiastic to the point where daily sex is not out of the question, I think it is highly unlikely that there is any intent on her part to suppress my desire.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

UMP said:


> Am I asking too much?


Yes, you probably are.

You've got to either give up the dream or leave and I'm pretty sure you don't want to leave.

There's a lot of reason for you to happy with how far you've gotten considering where you started.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Well, I can't really compare the two...but I can say that I was with my ex-husband for a total of 12.5 years, and I was HOT for him every single day....no matter what was happening between us, which included trauma, tragedy and fighting like wild cats at times, I was still physically hot for him. And I'm just talking about his body, his scent, his hair, his face, his mannerisms, etc. I'm not even going to count how extra hot I was for him due to our sex life being so good. There was never one moment I looked at him without seeing his natural masculine beauty. Keeping in mind, he is fit and that never changed during our relationship. (If anything, he got more muscular).
> 
> And I can also say that I can't imagine not feeling that way for another 14.5 years with him had we stayed together. I see him now, 6 months post D and still see his natural beauty and admire it.
> 
> ...


That's a fair answer. I wish I could tell you that I will do it, but when I combine the actual effort to get to 185 lbs. (my last 20 pounds) with the lack of sexual encouragement I get from my wife I cannot guarantee that I can.

I've even asked my wife point blank....."if I lose x amount of weight or get ripped would it increase your desire for me." Her answer has ALWAYS been an emphatic no. She says things like "I'm just not like that."

I know your next statement will be "she said this so as not to hurt your feelings." Maybe so.

Faithful wife: Do you really think me losing an extra 20 pounds after having lost 45 and becoming ripped will awaken my wifes spontaneous desire? Is it really that simple?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

badsanta said:


> I was reading this thread and I found myself thinking, you have always talked about a rather elaborate routine that you put yourself through in order to give your wife an outstanding performance in bed. In the event she were to develop a spontaneous desire and want something new on the menu, in my opinion this might end up leading to a rather awkward experience where you might experience anorgasmia and/or very limited enjoyment. Obviously experiencing her wanting something new and fun would be exciting, but if the timing of this was not ideal for you it would likely end in frustration.
> 
> MY ADVICE: If you already know your wife will want the same entree regardless of the menu option that are presented to her, perhaps you might want to try and alter foreplay. *Sex starts outside the bedroom*. Perhaps you can teach her to enjoy teasing you during moments when sex is not scheduled as a way to mess with your head and have fun as a couple. My wife really enjoys this, especially when opportunities for sex are going to be impossible. She really enjoys seeing how worked up she can get me and watching me squirm, and I have taught her how to enjoy doing this to me as a way for her to test how beautiful and sexy that I think she is to me. So when she sees me suffering with a huge smile on my face, it is like the ultimate compliment for her to enjoy!
> 
> ...


I think the problem being expressed is that there is no sex outside the bedroom, and the attempts are getting that fire stoked outside the bedroom are largely dismissed. What you describe about your wife getting you worked up, I think UMP's, alex's, and mine to a lesser extent...the thought of doing something even remotely like that simply never enters their mind no matter how many times, or ways it is brought up.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

samyeagar said:


> It truly baffles me sometimes. There is no question that my wife is very sexual, and gets a lot out of having sex. I think we are probably at a higher frequency than you and your wife are, but there are indeed some striking similarities...most notably I think is the whole sex for the sake of sex, and how *we can have a mind blowing session, best ever in her own words, and then ten minutes later, it's as if she doesn't remember it happening.* The good thing about how she is is that I am very confident we will never even come close to having a sexless marriage.


Yes, I think you guys are fairly regular. So are we - if once a week is regular  We have kids, though. She has early mornings at work, the kids have sports and other things. Our week day schedules don't jive, so it's understandable. We CAN make it work, but generally speaking, one or both of us are simply too tired or too busy to properly coordinate. I actually have little doubt that if our work schedules were more closely aligned and we weren't so typically busy during the weekdays, it'd be 2, 3 times per.

But it'd still be me doing all the 'work' to get there :wink2:

The bolded part is hilarious and spot on, and I laughed (then felt sadness!)


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> Yes, you probably are.
> 
> You've got to either give up the dream or leave and I'm pretty sure you don't want to leave.
> 
> There's a lot of reason for you to happy with how far you've gotten considering where you started.


That's true, but I have a very difficult time giving up dreams.

Typically when I give up a dream I give up entirely on the situation. 

I wanted to be a pro golfer but could only get to a 4 handicap playing every day. What did I do? I completely gave up on golf. Now I play maybe once every two years.

I wanted to race cars competitively. I was good, but could not keep up with the expense and nobody offered to support my habit by paying me to race so I just gave it all up. Crashing my race car did not help either.:wink2:

I wanted to be a professional pilot and ended up getting a great job on a 4 engine corporate jet at 23 years of age. My captain was a raging alcoholic so I applied to the air force and was accepted, quit my job and then 20 minutes later the air force called back and said I could not get in because I missed 2 letters on the 20/20 line. I lost 2 jobs in 20 minutes and have not really flown since. (although if I had gotten in my body would probably be buried in Iraqi sand somewhere.):wink2:

It's generally all or nothing with me. However, in this case, I better figure something out.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> Faithful wife: Do you really think me losing an extra 20 pounds after having lost 45 and becoming ripped will awaken my wifes spontaneous desire? Is it really that simple?


I don't think she would know how she would feel, that's why she says it doesn't matter.

Is it that simple? Neither of you know until you try.

One thing that I can say will for sure happen though.....YOU will feel sexier, you will KNOW you ARE sexier, and other women will notice that you are sexier. Perhaps these added boosts to your sexual energy will end up being enough to keep your motor running a while longer, even if it does not make any difference in her actions or thoughts. 

But it still might....don't know until you try.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> That's true, but I have a very difficult time giving up dreams.
> 
> Typically when I give up a dream I give up entirely on the situation.
> 
> ...


In this case, you are working on something that is almost entirely out of your control.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> I think the problem being expressed is that there is no sex outside the bedroom, and the attempts are getting that fire stoked outside the bedroom are largely dismissed. What you describe about your wife getting you worked up, I think UMP's, alex's, and mine to a lesser extent...the thought of doing something even remotely like that simply never enters their mind no matter how many times, or ways it is brought up.


It's almost as if it's just a mechanical release. There is nothing brewing inside needing sex to quell the internal storm. It's kind of like having sex with a machine. You push the sex button, sex happens and it's good, but afterwards it's as if nothing really happened and the sex button is off until next time.

There is no passion behind it, or at least nothing that I can see. Passion does occur, but it's only in the limited context of the actual act of sex and then only for a couple minutes before and during orgasm.

This, I cannot understand. It's beyond my understanding.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

UMP said:


> That's a fair answer. I wish I could tell you that I will do it, but when I combine the actual effort to get to 185 lbs. (my last 20 pounds) with the lack of sexual encouragement I get from my wife I cannot guarantee that I can.
> 
> I've even asked my wife point blank....."if I lose x amount of weight or get ripped would it increase your desire for me." Her answer has ALWAYS been an emphatic no. She says things like "I'm just not like that."
> 
> ...


I once dropped 45 lbs and was working out 6 days a week. I was, to be somewhat immodest, 5 lbs away from being a golden god.

My wife liked looking up at my chest, but it didn't increase the frequency of sex or her apparent enjoyment of it.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't think she would know how she would feel, that's why she says it doesn't matter.
> 
> Is it that simple? Neither of you know until you try.
> 
> ...


You are 100% correct.
I will try. If I do get there, you will be the first to know about it!:grin2:


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

UMP said:


> Same here. It makes her feel very uncomfortable. When I do say something about sex the very first thing she says while whispering is, "Where is (insert daughters name)"
> 
> She has suffered no abuse as a child. She did say that all her guy friends in high school would try to get a rise in her by talking about sex all the time. She had more guy friends than girlfriends in high school and was not promiscuous. Only had sex with her first boy friend of many years in college and then me.
> 
> She did say that she had sex daily with her first boyfriend yet he still cheated on her constantly. She mentioned this fact because she could not figure out how he could still be cheating when they were f$cking like rabbits all the time.


Well, this is how she was introduced to sex, and therefore it does not bring up pleasant memories for her, hence the 'block' - especially once married.

I believe this is how my wife approaches sex, as well. Once married to me, the dynamic changed, and she no longer expected me, this person who loves her for _her_, to be all about sex. Her past experiences dictated otherwise - men are about sex, you have to have sex with your boyfriend, or even to GET a boyfriend. Sad, but true. She's not alone in this train of thought, as a woman. We hope we teach our children otherwise while they're younger (and it's more of a hot topic issue these days, then back when we were growing up), but that's the sad reality.

She had also been cheated on in the past, including her first serious boyfriend, with whom she 'kept happy', so to speak. Yet he still cheated, repeatedly.

For some, sex is not a positive, and there doesn't have to be a history of abuse in order to make it that way.

It can be something so simple and unchangeable that makes sexuality negative for some (mainly women). Both my wife and ex wife were viewed as objects of sexual attention, both for similar reasons. My ex wife was petite and very top-heavy (5'0 tall, with 36/38 DDD breasts), and had a very sexual look to her, without trying. Guys would literally just stare at her chest. Or a common complaint of hers, when she started dating someone, they'd go for the breasts the first chance they got. This is what men/boys wanted from her - her breasts, and seemingly nothing more.

My wife is very curvaceous and well-proportioned. A true hour-glass figure (think Botticelli), and sways her hips when she walks, which shows off her (I think) great butt. Like my ex wife, men only wanted her for one thing (or commented on one thing) - that.

Some women embrace their god-given body parts, some grow to resent them, and get tired of people wanting them for one thing. I saw this in my ex wife, and I see this in my current wife. They were/are so used to being treated as sexual objects, something to look at, rather than the person. Many people out there are thinking "boo-hoo!", and I get that, but from my second-hand experience, it can create negative attitudes towards sex and sexuality, especially among women.

Ironically, my ex wife lost a lot of weight, and therefore her breasts. She went from the above size down to B's, if I recall - more in line with her body type. When that happened, men STILL wanted her, but it wasn't for that, and it went to her head. They didn't want her for the one thing they'd always wanted her for - so she assumed she was simply desirable, period - all of her. And that was the end of our marriage. Once upon a time, she'd tell guys to f*** off if they were ogling her. That stopped once she lost the breasts. Sigh.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> It's almost as if it's just a mechanical release. There is nothing brewing inside needing sex to quell the internal storm. It's kind of like having sex with a machine. You push the sex button, sex happens and it's good, but afterwards it's as if nothing really happened and the sex button is off until next time.
> 
> There is no passion behind it, or at least nothing that I can see. Passion does occur, but it's only in the limited context of the actual act of sex and then only for a couple minutes before and during orgasm.
> 
> This, I cannot understand. It's beyond my understanding.


I think where I have it a bit better than you is that if I do start with the flirting, the suggestive talk, texts, etc, all the way to down right filthy word fvcking, my wife will readily join in. The thing is, it would so rarely occur to her to start anything, to say anything to me, about me, that it just seems to be out of sight, out of mind...or maybe just more out of mind, because I can strip down in front of her, and she doesn't even bat an eye...unless other people are around, then she's all about me.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> In this case, you are working on something that is almost entirely out of your control.


Not according to Faithfulwife. Although you are a model and I suppose are very attractive and fit, but it does not effect your wife unless she can see others fawning over you.

Buddy400 says that he was nearly a "golden god" and it made no difference.

I do believe that if I ruled the world, was ripped, had unlimited time and money, was calm as a cucumber even on the verge of nuclear annihilation, had the love making skills of a Don Juan, and the talent of Elvis Presley, I might be able to get her to be more interested in sex before sex. :grin2:


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> I once dropped 45 lbs and was working out 6 days a week. I was, to be somewhat immodest, 5 lbs away from being a golden god.
> 
> My wife liked looking up at my chest, but it didn't increase the frequency of sex or her apparent enjoyment of it.


Well that sucks!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

UMP said:


> Not according to Faithfulwife. Although you are a model and I suppose are very attractive and fit, but it does not effect your wife unless she can see others fawning over you.
> 
> Buddy400 says that he was nearly a "golden god" and it made no difference.
> 
> I do believe that if I ruled the world, was ripped, had unlimited time and money, was calm as a cucumber even on the verge of nuclear annihilation, had the love making skills of a Don Juan, and the talent of Elvis Presley, I might be able to get her to be more interested in sex before sex. :grin2:


There are certainly things you can control, and FW has laid those out quite nicely. The one thing you can't control is how your wife responds. Unfortunately, that is what this is all about.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Time to put my nose to the grindstone.....again.


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

UMP - great thread. 

A little perspective - your wife does not seem to be a naturally highly sexual woman yet you are having sex 2X/wk with frequent oral, plenty of variety, regular O's ... For some that would seem like an abundance of good fortune but if it's starting to feel like she's just going through the motions and giving you duty sex you are wise to be trying to get out in front of this before it starts to deteriorate.

I think for women who are not highly sexual the best approach is to lay off the direct sexual stuff that makes them feel uncomfortable and focus more on the mental and emotional side. If your behavior has evolved in a way that your wife thinks it's never good enough for you and you're always pushing for more - more often, more erotic, more passionate, more initiation and raw desire from her - she will start to believe that either a) it's all about sex for you and you don't really care much about the other aspects of your relationship or b) she is incapable of pleasing you - neither of which in any way will produce the kind of results you are looking for. Even if you're not actively discussing it with her, if you're thinking about it 24/7 she can probably sense it. And that may be why she has no interest in opening up about it other than going ahead with it on your two designated nights. 

G2 is just not a naturally highly sexual woman and for the longest time I was trying to make her into one by constantly pushing the sex agenda. That, together with getting and staying in the best shape of my life and generally being a really good husband and father, got me nowhere. But when I pulled back from that and started to focus on the non-sexual stuff outside the bedroom, her attraction started to come back and her interest increased. What used to be dysfunctional and very uncomfortable for both of us is now functioning properly again.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@UMP you don't sound like the kind of guy that likes to succeed. In all honesty, each of those prior endeavors sounded like they could have resulted in fun, rewarding careers, but you gave up because you couldn't be perfect.

It's self sabotaging. It's getting to the point if success, then doubling down on the corners of whatever you're doing until you're able to declare failure and walk away.

I think that's your real issue.
@Faithful Wife and others are helpful but they don't seem to understand the huge number of women who simply NEVER think of sex, can articulate NOTHING that they fantasize about, offer no ideas, do not have meaningful responses to questions, etc.

Yes I totally get that. And I get that there simply might not be anything there behind it all - no intentional manipulation, etc.

My W let slip that she wasn't "supposed to" feel a certain way "at her age" so I drilled down on that. Basically she has no model of an adult woman having sex and having sexual thoughts, so she assumed adult women don't act and think that way. In fact, many if the women she has known over the past 5 decades either completely fit that mold or are closet freaks that we don't know about (3% chance of that). Many of her friends never married and don't date. Her parents divorced in grade school and neither of her parents ever dated again - over decades.

So there are expectations and learned behavior and frankly a low level of testosterone in her family.

What to do about it? Well one day I decided I want to have the sex life of a 20 year old jobless, irresponsible loser - as in bagging chicks and getting busy. Why shouldn't I have that?

But it's been a real education in TAM and I've had fits and starts. And now I completely accept and believe she enjoys sex but just doesn't really need it. And she will respond but won't initiate. And we're adding positions and toys but it's s l o o o o w because I want it all now.

But that's ok. We both know the other is. She knows I'm 100% into her and I know she'll take care of me 4-5 days a week hj or bj and I'll have to push every week for more than that 1-2 days a week (due to fatigue, kids, work etc which makes mire time consuming sex a lower priority for her,)

What's my point????? Stop declaring failure when you should be accepting success. Focus on what's working. Be very direct about what's not ("get cleaned up, I'm eating that $$$$ in a few minutes"). I'm serious. She may say no but then at least you're talking, right. And if she doesn't say no then do what you want. I mean nice, considerate, gentle caveman - take it. With responsive desire that's what she is expecting anyway. 

Why wouldn't that scenario be a success??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Faithful Wife and others are helpful but they don't seem to understand the huge number of women who simply NEVER think of sex, can articulate NOTHING that they fantasize about, offer no ideas, do not have meaningful responses to questions, etc.
> 
> Yes I totally get that. And I get that there simply might not be anything there behind it all - no intentional manipulation, etc.


I'm quite aware that there are many women AND MEN who will never think of sex, can articulate nothing that they fantasize about, offer no ideas, and do not have meaningful responses to questions. I've been reading message boards like this one for years and thus, literally thousands of stories just like Ump's (and just as many that are more like @MissScarlet who had a husband who couldn't care less about her pleasure, was LD, and insisted there was nothing wrong with him and therefore nothing to talk about...no he didn't fantasize about something she wasn't doing, no he did not think of sex when they weren't having it, etc).

The fact that I understand this doesn't change my belief that NOT having adult and open and honest communication about your own sex life shouldn't be accepted by anyone who wants to have that communication....regardless of how much pain, angst or annoyance this causes to the partner who won't talk.

The same is true in a case like @anonPink 's ....where she needed her husband to simply be able to verbally compliment her, at all, ever, and tell her he loved her, or that she looked beautiful....again, at all, ever!!! He did not tell her these things even on their wedding day. 20 years later, he still wasn't saying them. She finally had to push the conversation about it on him over and over. She had to tell him she was going to leave over this lack of communication (among other reasons)....(and she really meant she was leaving, it was not a threat). Why couldn't or wouldn't he communicate? Basically due to his upbringing. No other reason. No trauma. No CSA. Just that his family never talked, neither did he.

He stonewalled her for years when she would try to bring it up. But eventually she really did have one foot out the door....and eventually, slowly, he began working on this.

How hard should it be to simply tell your spouse they look good and that you love them? To most people, it would seem like a no brainer that this isn't very hard and holy crap, if your wife is about to leave you over it, you should do it ASAP!!! Even that wasn't enough to light a fire under his ass. It took her years basically to finally make some headway on that (and as she reported prior in this thread, she still did not get what she wanted...but she got something close enough to accept it).

My point?

Yes, I'm quite aware there are some people who will NOT talk about FITB marital issue.

Do I think that means you should just roll over and allow that spouse to end your ability to have open and free conversation? Hell no! Push on anyway. It will be uncomfortable because the non-communicative spouse is going to make you feel like crap for simply trying to have adult communication? Oh well, you are uncomfortable anyway. DO IT. Do it over and over and over until you either get an answer you will accept, you see changes you will accept, or you decide you either have to leave or just STFU.

@UMP is not ready to leave OR STFU. So my suggestion to him stands. FORCE her to talk about it by not backing down on the subject the first time she acts annoyed or uncomfortable. So what, she's annoyed or uncomfortable. No one has ever died from this.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

UMP said:


> That's a fair answer. I wish I could tell you that I will do it, but when I combine the actual effort to get to 185 lbs. (my last 20 pounds) with the lack of sexual encouragement I get from my wife I cannot guarantee that I can.
> 
> I've even asked my wife point blank....."if I lose x amount of weight or get ripped would it increase your desire for me." Her answer has ALWAYS been an emphatic no. She says things like "I'm just not like that."
> 
> ...


Well, there's a thread on here right now, that contradicts all of this. lol That women are attracted to chubby older fathers, according to this college study. Hmmm....

Anyway, I think that it could help, but if your wife wasn't responsive before you gained weight, she will likely remain the same. Maybe that is how she is? Idk. Does she like reading erotica? Not trashy romance novels, but well written...erotica stories. You could read them together. Never know.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> It's almost as if it's just a mechanical release. There is nothing brewing inside needing sex to quell the internal storm. It's kind of like having sex with a machine. You push the sex button, sex happens and it's good, but afterwards it's as if nothing really happened and the sex button is off until next time.
> 
> There is no passion behind it, or at least nothing that I can see. Passion does occur, but it's only in the limited context of the actual act of sex and then only for a couple minutes before and during orgasm.
> *
> This, I cannot understand. It's beyond my understanding*.


So @UMP you may be forgetting some of the lessons you've worked so hard to learn thus far.....lessons such as, LD is LD. It means she does not think the same way you do. She never will.  So of course you and she will never understand what each other thinks or why they think it. You need to give up on trying to think like she thinks, you will never succeed, because you are HD. As long as you keep thinking you can change her from LD into something else, you still aren't getting it. At best you will be able to up the frequency or maybe the quality, but you will never cause her to permanently change into someone who has a naturally higher sex drive.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ump,

This is a pure dominance play, there is nothing explicitly sexual about it. 

Doesn't matter if she will talk about it. Just try it out and see what happens.




UMP said:


> That's the problem. I would do this IF my wife would tell me or even give me a hint. I have even asked her and I get nothing.
> That leaves me shooting in the dark on the fly. Not very productive.
> 
> Thanks for the idea though!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm quite aware that there are many women AND MEN who will never think of sex, can articulate nothing that they fantasize about, offer no ideas, and do not have meaningful responses to questions. I've been reading message boards like this one for years and thus, literally thousands of stories just like Ump's (and just as many that are more like @MissScarlet who had a husband who couldn't care less about her pleasure, was LD, and insisted there was nothing wrong with him and therefore nothing to talk about...no he didn't fantasize about something she wasn't doing, no he did not think of sex when they weren't having it, etc).
> 
> The fact that I understand this doesn't change my belief that NOT having adult and open and honest communication about your own sex life shouldn't be accepted by anyone who wants to have that communication....regardless of how much pain, angst or annoyance this causes to the partner who won't talk.
> 
> ...


What's required is to communicate and try to address things that are making one's spouse unhappy.

For @UMPs wife, she's talking but there may just be nothing to say.

You could ask me about fashion. I'd have nothing to say.

She's trying and they've had some success.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

UMP said:


> That's a fair answer. I wish I could tell you that I will do it, but when I combine the actual effort to get to 185 lbs. (my last 20 pounds) with the lack of sexual encouragement I get from my wife I cannot guarantee that I can.
> 
> I've even asked my wife point blank....."if I lose x amount of weight or get ripped would it increase your desire for me." Her answer has ALWAYS been an emphatic no. She says things like "I'm just not like that."
> 
> ...


I'd have to say no, but also... you never know.

I say this because you describe yourself as already having lost a lot of weight. You're not at your goal, but it's also only 20lbs, to boot.

If there hasn't been any noticeable difference between what you were before and what you are now, it's highly unlikely another 20lbs will magically awaken her desire.

I believe most people, men and women, fall into 3 categories: 

A- Those who are highly visual and much prefer (or require) a "type". 
B- Those that are more attracted to the person (and if the physical part is there, it's a bonus). 
C- Those who genuinely don't care (or their threshold is high).

The latter isn't as uncommon as many of us think. I fall in between B and C. There are definitely body types I'm more attracted to than others, but it's never stopped me from being attracted to certain women throughout my life.

I believe my wife is the same way. She's mentioned she's dated people who are all over the map, in terms of body shape, size, height, weight, race, etc etc etc. She and I are around the same height (she's tallish for a woman, I'm on the shorter side for a man) and she's said she dated somebody shorter than her before. Also much much taller. The guy she took to prom was ripped (I saw pictures). Her ex before me was taller than average and kind of gangly.

I could also lose 20lbs no problem, but I highly HIGHLY doubt it would make any difference at all. There are some people that are simply not visual, not into body types or even looks. My wife's ex is, bluntly, not an attractive guy. He's not homely, but he's got nothing on me, and I view myself as fairly average looking (above average when I clean up, get a haircut, wear a well-fitted suit, etc!)

It is what it is, and I don't get the impression UMP's wife cares about those types of things.

Now - all that said - I'll play devil's advocate here. As I've mentioned my ex wife most definitely had a type. Tall, slim/athletic, long hair, dark eyes, nice smile. (she was very specific, lol). Those were generally the guys she dated before me. I have the eyes and the smile, but none of those other things. Those were also the guys she was attracted to while we were married (celebrities, rock stars, athletes, etc. They all looked like the description). Not-so-ironically, this was also the exact description of the guy she wound up leaving me for.

So it's clear she settled for me in that department - regardless of how many times over those years she complimented me, said I was handsome, sexy, hot, whatever. I guess my sparkling personality made up for it :laugh: Now, I could have become fit, trimmed my chest hair (she didn't like it, I knew that), grown my hair out, etc. But I couldn't make myself 6'4" tall. Maybe doing those things would have helped, maybe not. I wasn't a bad guy, a bad husband, a bad anything, really. I never heard one complaint about my personality, and it's clear that's what she married me for - not the physical attraction. I believe she had bad luck with dating, I came along at the right time and I was 'different', so she went in that direction. At the end of the day, I wasn't exactly what she wanted in that regard, so when this person came along, who had ALL of it, I lost out. I had all the qualities she desired EXCEPT the physical. This guy had these same qualities PLUS the physical. Nothing I could have done about that.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

GoodFunLife said:


> UMP - great thread.
> 
> A little perspective - your wife does not seem to be a naturally highly sexual woman yet you are having sex 2X/wk with frequent oral, plenty of variety, regular O's ... For some that would seem like an abundance of good fortune but if it's starting to feel like she's just going through the motions and giving you duty sex you are wise to be trying to get out in front of this before it starts to deteriorate.
> 
> ...


Please explain a bit more on the highlighted. Can you give examples?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @UMP you don't sound like the kind of guy that likes to succeed. In all honesty, each of those prior endeavors sounded like they could have resulted in fun, rewarding careers, but you gave up because you couldn't be perfect.
> 
> It's self sabotaging. It's getting to the point if success, then doubling down on the corners of whatever you're doing until you're able to declare failure and walk away.
> 
> ...


Great post! 
You are 100% correct.

The truth does hurt, but if you listen it opens the way.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> Well, there's a thread on here right now, that contradicts all of this. lol That women are attracted to chubby older fathers, according to this college study. Hmmm....
> 
> Anyway, I think that it could help, but if your wife wasn't responsive before you gained weight, she will likely remain the same. Maybe that is how she is? Idk. Does she like reading erotica? Not trashy romance novels, but well written...erotica stories. You could read them together. Never know.


No, she likes lifetime movies and those crappy Hallmark Christmas movies.:surprise:


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

samyeagar said:


> I think the problem being expressed is that there is no sex outside the bedroom, and the attempts are getting that fire stoked outside the bedroom are largely dismissed. What you describe about your wife getting you worked up, I think UMP's, alex's, and mine to a lesser extent...the thought of doing something even remotely like that simply never enters their mind no matter how many times, or ways it is brought up.


This is it, in a nutshell.

In all three cases (mine, Ump's and Sam's) we're actually all HAVING sex (and good sex, too) with our wives. It's not that that we're after. I think we're also all very aware that this is not a _bad_ problem to have, given the number of sexless marriages and other issues that some other people have.

For me, this 'no sex outside of sex' causes me to feel like less of a man (which is not a very manly thing to say, but nonetheless, there it is). I don't want to be a sex god, nor do I want my wife to be my sex slave. What I do require, as most men do, is to be valued as a sexual person IN ADDITION to the other ways I am valued by my wife.

And this is simply not the case. I have NO value to my wife in this way, whatsoever. I don't want to be an object, or a trophy. I don't want to be married to a nympho. I don't want a woman who does what I says, or who never says no.

But I do want a woman who views me as the total package, and values each and every thing that makes a marriage a marriage. Sex is just one part of that, but it's a big part. True, you tend to marry your best friend, but not literally. Often times, I find myself thinking my wife married me solely because I'm her best friend, and that the sexual part of the relationship is because she's 'supposed' to do it. That she's cognizant of the fact that sex is what separates romantic love and friendship, therefore she ensures it happens.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> So @UMP you may be forgetting some of the lessons you've worked so hard to learn thus far.....lessons such as, LD is LD. It means she does not think the same way you do. She never will. So of course you and she will never understand what each other thinks or why they think it. You need to give up on trying to think like she thinks, you will never succeed, because you are HD. As long as you keep thinking you can change her from LD into something else, you still aren't getting it. At best you will be able to up the frequency or maybe the quality, but you will never cause her to permanently change into someone who has a naturally higher sex drive.


I know I cannot change her, but I can become the kind of husband that could awaken her desire. (maybe) At the very least as you say, I won't know unless I actually do what I need to do. There is no downside if she does not desire me more. The worst case scenario is everything stays the same with my wife, but I will gain a healthier body and more confidence regardless.

I can't know until I give it 100%. When I did lose the 45 pounds it DID make a big difference. I do not think it was just the weight loss. I believe it was the weight loss combined with the increased confidence that went with it.

Either way I like a challenge.

I very much enjoy posting on this board and I seem to learn something new everyday. I am going to stick my neck out here and challenge myself.

My goal has always been 185 pounds and as fit as I can be. There was a time 27 years ago when I did weigh 185 pounds and I was fit. I can do this again. My wife does make veiled comments while watching TV about how other men look horrible fat and such.

Here is my challenge to myself and a promise to you.

I am going to stop posting on this board until I reach 185 pounds. If I come back before then I will look like a fool and a failure. I don't enjoy being a fool.

So, either I will look like a weak fool or I will post back on this thread and tell you I have reached my goal and also tell you how and if it has effected our relationship.

Hopefully I can do this in a couple 2 or 3 months. It's time for me to go into hiding and really work on this. I think it will be valuable to me and maybe some others that have similar issues.

THANK YOU and hopefully I will see you soon.

Pray for me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

alexm said:


> This is it, in a nutshell.
> 
> In all three cases (mine, Ump's and Sam's) we're actually all HAVING sex (and good sex, too) with our wives. It's not that that we're after. I think we're also all very aware that this is not a _bad_ problem to have, given the number of sexless marriages and other issues that some other people have.
> 
> ...


The bolded sounds pretty accurate, according to other posts you have made. 

If that is how it will always be, can you live with it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

@alexm: Do not feel bad or less manly for wanting your wife to feel the way you wish she felt. Many of us men want our wives to feel that way. Lots of us, sorry to say, are not married to women who feel that way about us. Some of us divorce to go find a woman who does feel that way about us. Some of us stay married and have sex with her even though deep donw we know she really isn't all that into us and is simply "doing her duty". And some precious few of us stay married but stop having duty sex - which means we don't have any sex at all.

Only you can decide which choice is best for you. The second choice is clearly NOT an unmanly choice. Not so sure about the third choice.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Holdingontoit said:


> @alexm: Do not feel bad or less manly for wanting your wife to feel the way you wish she felt. Many of us men want our wives to feel that way. Lots of us, sorry to say, are not married to women who feel that way about us. Some of us divorce to go find a woman who does feel that way about us. Some of us stay married and have sex with her even though deep donw we know she really isn't all that into us and is simply "doing her duty". And some precious few of us stay married but stop having duty sex - which means we don't have any sex at all.
> 
> Only you can decide which choice is best for you. The second choice is clearly NOT an unmanly choice. Not so sure about the third choice.


Are you open to having sex with your wife if she asks you for it, Holding?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

At this point I would suggest it's simply not possible for a woman who has always been responsively desirous of sex to become spontaneously desirous. I don't think they can be talked into it, by talking about it. I don't think they can be manipulated into it, by altering your appearance. However, it is a huge mistake, I think, to avoid discussions or to ignore the importance of appearance. 

I agree with @Faithful Wife that spouses ought to be challenged to discuss important marital issues whether they're comfortable about it or not. A grown woman avoiding discussions about sex is childish! 

One of the things I've said to my daughters once they hit the age was that if you can't talk to your boyfriend about sex, about birth control, about condoms etc, you shouldn't be having sex. If you can't talk about it, you shouldn't be doing it. You know you're ready to do it when you can talk about it. 

And yet we have grown ass, married woman who still can't talk about sex. That is bull sh!t.

To a woman who doesn't seem to have much passion and is uncomfortable talking about sex I'd wonder if she knows that she isn't emotionally healthy, and is immature. I'd wonder how she came to think this lack of comfort talking about sex is normal. I'd want to know how she defends herself being so sexually inhibited and repressed. I'd seek to challenge her POV that shame and sex go hand in hand. I'd expect she would defend herself by insisting sex isn't that important and I'd beg to differ. Sex is a primal motivator, sex sells, sex is power.

So I would start there. She may have a more passionate woman locked in chains who can be unleashed only when challenged to defend and alter her POV about sex. 

Comfort brings complacency. Challenge brings change.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> At this point I would suggest it's simply not possible for a woman who has always been responsively desirous of sex to become spontaneously desirous. I don't think they can be talked into it, by talking about it. I don't think they can be manipulated into it, by altering your appearance. However, it is a huge mistake, I think, to avoid discussions or to ignore the importance of appearance.


Agreed. Isn't the whole point about spontaneity that the person doesn't have to give it thought, they just go ahead and do it. Asking someone to be spontaneous just seems counter intuitive to me, IDK.



Anon Pink said:


> Comfort brings complacency. Challenge brings change. Change leads to the dark side


Read this part of your post in Yoda's voice (I added last sentence for dramatic effect) :grin2:


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

While I agree with you on how things should be, sometimes they are not. There are women who have so deeply absorbed "traditional" ideas about sex: Sex is done *for* men. Sex is bad. "Normal" people don't talk about sex. They believe that *they* are the healthy ones, and the women who talk about sex are just acting like immature teenagers. 

They don't see any reason that they should change. 

My wife is very PG-13 about sex. She is fine with flirting, kissing etc. She is happy to talk in general about attractiveness and hint at sex. But any explicit talk or actions beyond what would be in a PG-13 movie are rare. Flirting and affection, go to bed... scene cut.... wake up in the morning. She thinks this is completely normal. 




Anon Pink said:


> At this point I would suggest it's simply not possible for a woman who has always been responsively desirous of sex to become spontaneously desirous. I don't think they can be talked into it, by talking about it. I don't think they can be manipulated into it, by altering your appearance. However, it is a huge mistake, I think, to avoid discussions or to ignore the importance of appearance.
> 
> I agree with @Faithful Wife that spouses ought to be challenged to discuss important marital issues whether they're comfortable about it or not. A grown woman avoiding discussions about sex is childish!
> 
> ...


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@Anon Pink I understand what you're saying, and I definitely believe you should talk about these things, but there is a point where you have to make a decision about respect. Do you accept and respect WHO your W is? These ideas about sex are part of people's core makeup. That's why we're here, right? @UMP can't turn it off anymore that @UMP's W can turn it on.

So after 100 or so I've sided discussions, then what? For me the answer is to act more and talk less. Push boundaries - directly though - say what I am pushing for. Maybe I don't physically pursue but I talk and make my desire and intent clear - and without judgement or shame or negative emotions about her opinions on the matter.

My point is talking has to be two ways and if one side REALLY REALLY has nothing to say then different avenues need to be explored.

But never give up - never say die!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

uhtred said:


> While I agree with you on how things should be, sometimes they are not. There are women who have so deeply absorbed "traditional" ideas about sex: Sex is done *for* men. Sex is bad. "Normal" people don't talk about sex. They believe that *they* are the healthy ones, and the women who talk about sex are just acting like immature teenagers.
> 
> They don't see any reason that they should change.
> 
> My wife is very PG-13 about sex. She is fine with flirting, kissing etc. She is happy to talk in general about attractiveness and hint at sex. But any explicit talk or actions beyond what would be in a PG-13 movie are rare. Flirting and affection, go to bed... scene cut.... wake up in the morning. She thinks this is completely normal.


Of course they don't see any reason to change. You have accepted that this is the way your wife is, no reason for her to change. You accept it. You do not challenge it. 

Women had to fight for the right to vote, to own property, to make their own decisions about their own bodies. We fought by never *accepting* contrary opinions. Even in my generation, every time a man said something sexist, a woman called him on it. Men learned to be either more enlightened, or they learned to STFU in front of women. For generations women have been forcefully taught that sex is shameful. That men only want to get laid, that sex is for men... "close your eyes and think of England" and when that idea, that POV is accepted unchallenged it remains unchanged.

Your job is not to change her mind. Your job is to challenge her POV by giving her facts and by not allowing fallacies about men and about you to exist.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Anon Pink I understand what you're saying, and I definitely believe you should talk about these things, but there is a point where you have to make a decision about respect. Do you accept and respect WHO your W is? These ideas about sex are part of people's core makeup.


No they are not. Talking about and understanding sex is not the same as one being introverted or extroverted. 





> That's why we're here, right? @UMP can't turn it off anymore that @UMP's W can turn it on.
> 
> So after 100 or so I've sided discussions, then what? For me the answer is to act more and talk less. Push boundaries - directly though - say what I am pushing for. Maybe I don't physically pursue but I talk and make my desire and intent clear - and without judgement or shame or negative emotions about her opinions on the matter.
> 
> ...



The fact that you've had 100's of discussion, though one sided they may have been, challenged your wife's limited and false ideas about sex. The fact that you talked, that you enlightened, that you did not allow her the impression that her husband would, or should, be content with starfish sex every other month, was enough to get her to think and to understand. 

Your wife may never be comfortable talking about sex. She may always be disquieted when you bring it up. But if you fail to bring it up and respect her discomfort about something so important, you are essentially agreeing that sex is shameful and not something a decent woman wants or thinks or talks about. Which is utter and complete bullish!t.

Decent women think about sex, they want sex, and some of us decent women love sex!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Think about how it works. If she views men as just wanting sex, then any attempt to talk about sex is seen as an attempt to get sex - reinforcing her beliefs. 

Now I don't want to paint too bleak a picture. She enjoys sex - occasionally. She believes we have a good, normal sex life, and that I'm the one with unrealistic ideas. In some ways she is right, there are a lot of couples who have very limited sex lives, we are not that unusual. (just look at posts here).

There are a number of ideas out there that have some real validity, but taken together can produce a toxic mix:

Boys / men just want sex: There is some truth to this for hormone-driven teenagers. 

Never do anything you don't want in bed: There is some truth to this, don't be pressured into something you don't want. 

Society is over-sexed: There is some truth to this. Sex is used to sell, and many women feel pressured by everything from adverts to porn. 

Don't be a slvt: Sadly many people still have negative feelings about women who want and enjoy a lot of sex 












Anon Pink said:


> Of course they don't see any reason to change. You have accepted that this is the way your wife is, no reason for her to change. You accept it. You do not challenge it.
> 
> Women had to fight for the right to vote, to own property, to make their own decisions about their own bodies. We fought by never *accepting* contrary opinions. Even in my generation, every time a man said something sexist, a woman called him on it. Men learned to be either more enlightened, or they learned to STFU in front of women. For generations women have been forcefully taught that sex is shameful. That men only want to get laid, that sex is for men... "close your eyes and think of England" and when that idea, that POV is accepted unchallenged it remains unchanged.
> 
> Your job is not to change her mind. Your job is to challenge her POV by giving her facts and by not allowing fallacies about men and about you to exist.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Too bad the writing on the wall isn't clear. Most people have natural limits as to what they're able and willing to do. Pizza, beer, para-diving, etc. I love pizza but can I eat it every day?

And this is innate, not something brought upon by someone else "agreeing" to have pizza twice a week as a compromise.

You're at your comfort level (or tolerance level) and all of a sudden your food buddy starts thinking of pizza spontaneously. We're driving in front of Giordano's, what a coincidence. Let's have some even tho we just had Pizza Hut yesterday. 

Do it often enough and your pizza buddy will start hating pizza altogether. 

Have you considered that the lack of spontaneity is simply a self defense mechanism to ensure the predefined upon service level agreement of 2x a week stays put?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@Anon Pink I wish I knew how to selectively quote with my app but paraphrasing will have to do.

Ideas about sex ARE part of a persons core make up. I don't mean genetically, I mean in the sense of their core personality development. Similar to their beliefs about religion. That's what I mean about core - it is intertwined into many other beliefs and tied to actions and thoughts. As in not easily accessed and not easily disconnected. But mostly - and this is key - hidden from the person because they fail to differentiate beliefs from learned behavior from facts. Just like a devout Catholic might build their whole schedule, meals, plans around a Friday or a Holy Day of Obligation, they may assume certain things have to be done a certain way to observe that act of their faith.

The old priest joke is "give me a kid for 5 years and I've got them for life". It's so true for many. Core tenants of decency and respect and interwoven into views of sexuality.

I otherwise agree with you. I personally don't have that baggage, and I have told my W that she has a "dark overhang" that somehow controls how she sees things - but she can't even see it most of the time. With no other sources of information about sexuality, how can the myths and restrictions be separated from "what just is" as fact?

So my job is to continually make judgements about when it is appropriate to talk about these interfering ideas without breaking her down and being critical. Many women already start with questionable self esteem - for reasons you cite - and my good intentions don't matter if my W feels badgered or feels I don't value her beliefs.

It's a tangled web of intricate lies I'm afraid. And I don't lay the blame on anything but a puritanical culture - enforced by women at least as much as men ironically - and originating with ignorant men centuries ago who blamed natural lust on women.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

So how's this for some passive aggressiveness...I lead a team of mostly men, and with no shave November, most of them decided to completely shave November First to start it off with a clean slate. I didn't get around to shaving it off...until this morning. My wife doesn't know yet, and was less than thrilled at the prospect of me being clean shaven, even for a day...she really likes my nicely trimmed short beard.

I have a plausible reason for doing it...team solidarity, spirit, all that, but to be honest, there was a small part of me that did it just for the reaction. I can come home in a pressed suit, shined shoes, and a new haircut, and it take her until the next day to passingly say she noticed I got my hair cut, but I guarantee, this will get an immediate reaction.

The thing is...I kinda like it like this. Once November is over, I just might keep it this way for a while.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

jld said:


> The bolded sounds pretty accurate, according to other posts you have made.
> 
> If that is how it will always be, can you live with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If there was any indication that I'm the only man she's ever been like this with - then no, I wouldn't stay. I'd be settling for a settler. No thanks. Been there.

But that does not seem to be the case, even remotely. This is simply how she is. And like UMP vis-a-vis his wife, I haven't given up trying to figure out if there's a reason she's like this (upbringing, past negative experiences, mental block, whatever). From all indications, as well as her own words, she's never been any different to anybody else.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

uhtred said:


> While I agree with you on how things should be, sometimes they are not. There are women who have so deeply absorbed "traditional" ideas about sex: Sex is done *for* men. Sex is bad. "Normal" people don't talk about sex. They believe that *they* are the healthy ones, and *the women who talk about sex are just acting like immature teenagers. *


I have actually heard those words, almost verbatim, in real life


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

uhtred said:


> While I agree with you on how things should be, sometimes they are not. There are women who have so deeply absorbed "traditional" ideas about sex: Sex is done *for* men. Sex is bad. "Normal" people don't talk about sex. They believe that *they* are the healthy ones, and the women who talk about sex are just acting like immature teenagers.
> 
> They don't see any reason that they should change.
> 
> My wife is very PG-13 about sex. She is fine with flirting, kissing etc. She is happy to talk in general about attractiveness and hint at sex. But any explicit talk or actions beyond what would be in a PG-13 movie are rare. Flirting and affection, go to bed... scene cut.... wake up in the morning. She thinks this is completely normal.


What is interesting, my W is responsive desire but I think it is just simply her personality. No horrible experiences, no preconceived ideas of how women should act in response to sex, etc... We have had talks about sex, try different things, toys, likes (although TBH my biggest like is having sex with some sort of regularity lol). I just think that even though at times she can be in line with spontaneous desire, it just doesn't come naturally to her (or maybe moreso my definition of spontaneous desire differs from hers). 

We have talked about some of this stuff before, but as I think I mentioned in another thread, I don't want it to become a point where she feels like she HAS TO act a certain way


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> At this point I would suggest it's simply not possible for a woman who has always been responsively desirous of sex to become spontaneously desirous. I don't think they can be talked into it, by talking about it. I don't think they can be manipulated into it, by altering your appearance. However, it is a huge mistake, I think, to avoid discussions or to ignore the importance of appearance.
> 
> I agree with @Faithful Wife that spouses ought to be challenged to discuss important marital issues whether they're comfortable about it or not. A grown woman avoiding discussions about sex is childish!
> 
> ...


This is just a devil's advocate kind of reaction, , but well, coming at it from a different POV.

I don't really have any desire to talk about sex with my husband at all, but it isn't out of prudishness or inhibition. If he was really pressing me to do so I would. But, quite honestly, I don't really want to tell him that I'm not all that attracted to him anymore, that I actively fantasize about other people while we're having sex, nor do I want to get into those things that would reignite my spark because, well, BTDT and it didn't produce anything. 

I guess I'm saying that I'm just comfortable enough with the status quo, with being complacent, and don't care to make those changes. And apparently he is too. So while there is in fact the possibility of much more passion and sexuality, there's absolutely no motivation to realize it. Or maybe more accurately, no real belief that the effort would be worth the while.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

UMP said:


> Sure, there are times when the stars line up and she's got that twinkle in her eye, but it is soooooooooooooooo hard to get that to happen. Maybe I was extra attentive in some area I have no idea about. The circumstances were just right at the right time. This happens less and less as the years go by and it makes me sad. It makes me want to just give up.


I don't think there are necessarily these "go to" moves that will light the spark. I often feel spontaneous desire, but it has very little to do with my husband. When it does have to do with him, it's usually relatively random. Sometimes he will just look a certain way. Or do a certain thing. And it will have that effect. But at another time he could do the exact same thing and it won't. It's not just the behavior, it's the lighting and the timing and the context.

At least IMHO.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

wild jade said:


> I don't think there are necessarily these "go to" moves that will light the spark. I often feel spontaneous desire, but it has very little to do with my husband. When it does have to do with him, it's usually relatively random. * Sometimes he will just look a certain way. Or do a certain thing. And it will have that effect.* But at another time he could do the exact same thing and it won't. It's not just the behavior, it's the lighting and the timing and the context.
> 
> At least IMHO.


You got me thinking about the bolded. There are random times during the day that my W will catch a "buzz" (maybe it was a look I gave, something I did, how I look, a brilliant MEME I showed her , maybe not, who knows). However, when that happens and she could act on her spontaneous desire it is not possible (kids in house). Funny enough, when that happens I pretty much know nothing is going to happen later if we do get alone time. It is almost as if she used up all her spontaneous desire at that moment, and the fact that she wanted me at that moment was good enough (not sure if any of that makes sense).


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@UMP,

I haven't read all of the responses on this thread but do you have a certain cologne/aftershave you wear specifically on the days you two have sex? If you do, consider wearing it at other times during the day. The olfactory nerves are very close to the part of the brain that controls memory. It's why some smells will trigger feel good memories. You might just trigger some , good feelings in your wife.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Well I've read the whole thread, as the responsive desire wife, hoping there would be some takeaway that I could apply to myself to increase desire. 

I spend a lot of time thinking about how to get the passion back into our relationship but come up empty handed.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> @UMP,
> 
> I haven't read all of the responses on this thread but do you have a certain cologne/aftershave you wear specifically on the days you two have sex? If you do, consider wearing it at other times during the day. The olfactory nerves are very close to the part of the brain that controls memory. It's why some smells will trigger feel good memories. You might just trigger some , good feelings in your wife.


OMG @Lila you mean to tell me that there are housewives out there in the world that are conditioned to immediately go into estrus upon smelling the scent of old-musky-worn-out reclining chair? 










Holy shît, how did I ever miss this one????


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

badsanta said:


> OMG @Lila you mean to tell me that there are housewives out there in the world that are conditioned to immediately go into estrus upon smelling the scent of old-musky-worn-out reclining chair?
> 
> Holy shît, how did I ever miss this one????


LOL, The goal is to trigger _feel good_ memories not awful ones. 

Kind of like this...the smell of cigar smoke makes me happy. It reminds me of my grandfather who I loved very much.

But to give an example closer to what I was suggesting to UMP....I wear my Armani perfume only when I go out on dates with my husband. Date nights = sex. A few months ago, I had a brain fart moment and mistakenly put on the Armani instead of Bulgari scent I typically wear for work. I spent all day reminiscing. :grin2:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Hillary at age 28?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't know that "responsive desire" and passion are incompatible. I guess it depends on the level of responsive desire. Are you able to engage in romantic actions, light flirting etc, then have that gradually evolve into passionate sex?

Passion doesn't mean that you have to tear each others clothes off as soon as you are together, i think it can be where you end up after lots of build-up.




kag123 said:


> Well I've read the whole thread, as the responsive desire wife, hoping there would be some takeaway that I could apply to myself to increase desire.
> 
> I spend a lot of time thinking about how to get the passion back into our relationship but come up empty handed.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

uhtred said:


> I don't know that "responsive desire" and passion are incompatible. I guess it depends on the level of responsive desire. Are you able to engage in romantic actions, light flirting etc, then have that gradually evolve into passionate sex?
> 
> Passion doesn't mean that you have to tear each others clothes off as soon as you are together, i think it can be where you end up after lots of build-up.


Nothing ever has a chance to really "gradually evolve". We could be flirting in the kitchen for a few mins during dinner, then a kid comes barging in or the phone rings or other things need to get done. The moment is over and I don't really come back to it. For me, desire is fickle and fleeting and if I can't jump at that exact moment, then I can't get it back.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I understand
Sorry, I don't have kids and so I often forget their impact on things. Phones and other things can be turned off. 



kag123 said:


> Nothing ever has a chance to really "gradually evolve". We could be flirting in the kitchen for a few mins during dinner, then a kid comes barging in or the phone rings or other things need to get done. The moment is over and I don't really come back to it. For me, desire is fickle and fleeting and if I can't jump at that exact moment, then I can't get it back.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

kag123 said:


> Nothing ever has a chance to really "gradually evolve". We could be flirting in the kitchen for a few mins during dinner, then a kid comes barging in or the phone rings or other things need to get done. The moment is over and I don't really come back to it. For me, desire is fickle and fleeting and if I can't jump at that exact moment, then I can't get it back.


Wow, your post sounds very similar to what I had just posted about my W. 



EllisRedding said:


> You got me thinking about the bolded. There are random times during the day that my W will catch a "buzz" (maybe it was a look I gave, something I did, how I look, a brilliant MEME I showed her , maybe not, who knows). However, when that happens and she could act on her spontaneous desire it is not possible (kids in house). Funny enough, when that happens I pretty much know nothing is going to happen later if we do get alone time. It is almost as if she used up all her spontaneous desire at that moment, and the fact that she wanted me at that moment was good enough (not sure if any of that makes sense).


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

UMP said:


> No, she likes lifetime movies and those crappy Hallmark Christmas movies.:surprise:


I like some of those too. lol 0

Maybe just enjoy the sex life that you do have, if it's good but you need to initiate, so be it.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

The very first thing out of my wife's mouth when I got home from work was that I seemed to have forgotten the point of no shave November, and that my beard makes me look younger, so she is indeed capable of verbalizing things about my appearance spontaneously.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> The very first thing out of my wife's mouth when I got home from work was that I seemed to have forgotten the point of no shave November, and that my beard makes me look younger, so she is indeed capable of verbalizing things about my appearance spontaneously.




So she only verbalizes negatives?


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

UMP you asked for examples of pulling back and focusing on the non-sexual stuff outside the bedroom so if you are still following along here are a couple. These may not be applicable to your situation but my guess is if your wife is not showing signs of attraction other than during your scheduled sessions, there may be some things you can work on in addition to your physical appearance. 

1. Figure out what qualities she is attracted to and - as importantly - what types of behavior kill her attraction. Emphasize the former and eradicate the latter. 

In our case -

Attractive to G2: intellect, kindness, character strength, conviction, edge (thanks MEM!)

Unattractive to G2: needy, clingy, indecisive, any type of approval seeking, non self-validated behavior

Examples of action steps -

Engage in intellectually stimulating conversation with her. 
Establish boundaries and don't flinch. 
Express disapproval when called for.
Be responsible for my own happiness. 

None of these things are directly sexual yet I know they were a big part of her wanting to be sexual with me again. 

2. Figure out a couple ways for her to please you and meet your needs that are completely non-sexual and be sure to recognize and express appreciation for whatever it is she does - making you dinner, taking care of kids, going for walks or working out together - could be anything just recognize and appreciate. Again - sounds simple and obvious but to her it means a lot and it's an easy way for you to show her that you don't take her for granted and that it's not all about the sex.

3. Let go of sex as an agenda. This was the hardest one for me to grasp but probably had the biggest impact once I did. Sex may never be as important to your wife as it is to you and there is an inevitable negative compounding effect on her lack of desire if you make her feel bad for this. Accept it and make the most of it. By pulling back you will give her the space she needs for the attraction to come back. 

MEM has an old thread on this topic of pulling back & cooling off and it was a lightning bolt for me. I can't get to it on my phone but it has thermostat in the title. Made a big impact.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

notmyrealname4 said:


> So she only verbalizes negatives?


You know, that was my first thought, and I think it is spot on. The only part that troubles me is the fact that it didn't bother me...kind of just felt...meh, ok, what ever. A while back, I would have pushed the issue, but tonight, I realized I just don't really care. That can't be all that good for things to be feeling that way.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> You know, that was my first thought, and I think it is spot on. The only part that troubles me is the fact that it didn't bother me...kind of just felt...meh, ok, what ever. A while back, I would have pushed the issue, but tonight, I realized I just don't really care. That can't be all that good for things to be feeling that way.




I am sorry; it shouldn't be that way when you are married.

This, unfortunately, makes you very vulnerable to the attentions and compliments of other women.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

notmyrealname4 said:


> I am sorry; it shouldn't be that way when you are married.
> 
> This, unfortunately, makes you very vulnerable to the attentions and compliments of other women.


And to totally confuse things...while my wife was taking a shower last night, I went into the living room and was reading on my laptop...when she was done, she came in their completely naked and started grinding on me a bit, then stayed naked the rest of the night, snuggling, rubbing up against me until our show was over...and things proceeded from there. Completely incomprehensible to me...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

samyeagar said:


> And to totally confuse things...while my wife was taking a shower last night, I went into the living room and was reading on my laptop...when she was done, she came in their completely naked and started grinding on me a bit, then stayed naked the rest of the night, snuggling, rubbing up against me until our show was over...and things proceeded from there. Completely incomprehensible to me...


Is your laptop ok, those aren't cheap ya know?


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