# Need Direction



## DeenaBoBeena (Sep 20, 2011)

A little over a month ago, my husband admitted (after I confronted him with proof) that he had been cheating on me since January, with prostitutes. It started out as once or twice a month, then escalated to once a week, and once he even spent a full day with someone. This was all happening while he was at work in the city. He had been denying me access to our financials (claiming internet problems) so I couldn't see that he was bankrupting us. He also illegally obtained money to pay for prostitutes.

Since coming clean, he's been fully cooperative. He's returned everything he bought with money that wasn't ours. He's turned over all of the finances to me.. he doesn't even have an ATM card now. He set up a webcam at work, so I can see when he's at his desk. He gave me access to the website he used to find prostitutes, then canceled it after I was done looking at it. He agreed to cancel all extras like Netflix, the gym, etc until we're in better shape financially. He says he hasn't participated in anything re: prostitutes since coming clean, and hasn't had any desire to. We started couples counseling (we've had 3 sessions) and he started individual therapy. We've been working through the book Getting Past the Affair, and have completed the first two parts.

We know how our marriage became vulnerable. We have four kids (7, 6, 3, and 16 months), and we just threw ourselves into our roles as parents and totally put our relationship on the back burner. We stayed best friends, and agree that we still felt pretty connected emotionally, but obviously the romance wasn't there. He's very conflict-averse and was afraid to tell me how unhappy he was with our marriage, and our sex life in particular. We both have very low self-esteem (a long term issue) and that exacerbated things, because he'd feel rejected when I was too tired, but wouldn't say anything.. then I assumed he just wasn't attracted to me, and never wanted to force myself on him. 

He has a history of really poor judgment in social situations, and a tendency to fail to consider how his actions affect me (for instance.. he'd go out with friends, not call when he was going to be late, miss all the trains and need to take a cab home, or I'd have to go pick him up in the city (pre-kids)). He tends to lie when he thinks something will make me unhappy.. for instance, he's had a friendship with a woman he works with, that I'm fairly certain was platonic.. but he lied about how close they were (they'd go out to lunch once a week at trendy restaurants and he'd pay, they went out to a movie once, and once he went to dinner with her and another couple, then went back to her house, where her fiance was waiting for them). He's lied to me about losing a job, about being offered a job, about who he was going to be with on a night out, etc. Another big problem is that he has a lot of difficulty accessing his emotions. As in, he doesn't even get visibly upset when relatives die. He does seem to be working at it.. the other night we were talking and he did get emotional and even cried a bit.

So.. my point is, I need some direction. We're working hard at reconnecting, doing weekly date nights, complimenting each other, being affectionate nonsexually and spicing up our sex life (we've both been tested for STDs, and we're using condoms). But these other things that need to be worked on are just so.. daunting. I end up asking him lots of questions about his individual therapy appointments, and he gets frustrated if he thinks I'm trying to direct his counseling.

I'm also frustrated because there really aren't any good ways for me to check up on him. He takes the train into the city every day. He's very technologically savvy, so I'm confident that he could fool any conventional methods out there. He has given me access to all of his email accounts and his phone records, and says I can check his call history, texts, etc any time I want. But like I said.. I don't really feel like there's a point, because if he wanted to hide something, I'm 100% sure I'd never find it.

If you've made it this far, thank you so much. Any input or advice you have would be hugely appreciated.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Well the first thing I'd establish with him is that lying has got to stop period. If he forgot to put the toilet seat down he can't lie about, no matter what it is or how bad it hurts - no more lies. Once you've cheated there is no room for white lies or lies by omission. The next thing I'd say is that if he's tech savvy and you're less so then yes, if he wants to resume bad behavior and keeps it in that realm he can probably keep it from you. My wife doesn't have interest in having my passwords for this same reason. Of course he'll have a hard time paying for prostitutes if you control the $$$. There are other ways to check, but gut and intuition count for a lot. Talking about his IC sessions is a little tricky, I understand wanting to know but at the same time if he's going to get anything out of them he's got to feel uninhibited. On this I'd probably just ask him if he's willing to talk about them and tell him any time he wants to stop you're ok with it - but then you have to be ok with it. 

He's certainly got a history of some pretty bad behavior, but in the situation the two of you are in actions speak louder than words and it sounds like he's doing the right things. You are very recently past D Day, is there anything else you need him to do to help you find peace of mind again and begin to trust him? 

Just curious, did something specific happen in the last few days that led you here and to make that post, or are you just looking for support from other victims of infidelity? Like I said, I'm just curious and either is perfectly fine. 

Hopefully others will offer their insight. There's a lot of good people and good advice here.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

DeenaBoBeena said:


> If you've made it this far, thank you so much. Any input or advice you have would be hugely appreciated.



Keylogger!

He won`t be looking for a keylogger

He may very well be finding and communicating with these escorts online and a keylogger would quickly bust him if he is.

Put one on his pc/laptop.


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## DeenaBoBeena (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for responding.  Nothing specific has happened that led me here. I've read around a bit here and on other forums in the past month, but I've been making do with support from a friend IRL and our couples counseling. We're skipping a session this week because our schedules didn't mesh, so I guess I just felt the need for some more support. I also feel like counseling is kind of.. aimless? I like having specific goals to work towards, and the whole, "Well, what do you think is important?" and "Well, what do you think he should do to show you he loves you?" just get on my nerves.

I try to be respectful of his privacy for his individual therapy. I ask if there's anything he wants to talk about. While I don't need to know the details, I think I have a right to know if he feels like the counselor is a good fit, if they're discussing things that I feel he needs to address, etc. Like.. he says he was really depressed last year. I asked if he thinks he's still depressed, and he says he's not sure. So I said, "I think you need to address that with your counselor, because if you're clinically depressed, that might inhibit our progress." Then when I ask if they talked about it, and he says it didn't come up, I get frustrated, and he feels like I'm managing his therapy.

I'm kind of at a loss to know what kind of things I need for him to do so I can heal and begin to trust him again. This came completely out of the blue for me (I knew there was an issue with our finances, I suspected he had just mismanaged funds in a small way). I never suspected he was cheating on me or that he was anywhere near as unhappy as he says he was. So.. if I felt like I could trust him 100%, that there was nothing wrong.. how can I trust my intuition and judgment again? I don't know what he could do to help that.


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## DeenaBoBeena (Sep 20, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Keylogger!
> 
> He won`t be looking for a keylogger
> 
> ...


He did all that stuff at work.. I have no access to his computer there. We have one computer at home (he's returned our other two), and he's rarely on it since D-Day.


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## rotor (Aug 28, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Keylogger!
> 
> He won`t be looking for a keylogger
> 
> ...


If he is really that tech savvy that would be the first thing he would look for and they are soooo easy to find just by checking your AV exclusion list.

Now if you really want to attach a bell to a supergeek put something like mobistealth on his Smartphone and let him know it’s installed. You probably won’t get any info from texts or call logs and such but you will be able to track him on GPS and record background sounds. 

The reason this works nicely is because if he is going to be making any side trips for lunch he is going to have to go dark and you will know. If he tries to leave it in the drawer and skip out, you will get a pretty good clue by the background sounds and his patterns of returning your texts.

Sort of like one of those ankle bracelets they give people when they get out of jail and are restricted to home. LOL

Regards,

rotor


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## DeenaBoBeena (Sep 20, 2011)

rotor said:


> If he is really that tech savvy that would be the first thing he would look for and they are soooo easy to find just by checking your AV exclusion list.
> 
> Now if you really want to attach a bell to a supergeek put something like mobistealth on his Smartphone and let him know it’s installed. You probably won’t get any info from texts or call logs and such but you will be able to track him on GPS and record background sounds.
> 
> ...


I suppose I could do that. I don't know how much more info it's going to give me than the webcam. The point is that if he leaves work but puts his phone in a drawer or something, I'll be able to tell, right? But the webcam shows me when he's not at his desk. Hmm.

It's too bad I couldn't sneak a GPS into his shoes.. that's something he wouldn't really leave behind. 

ETA: Just looked that up.. wow. That's kind of prohibitively expensive..


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## rotor (Aug 28, 2010)

DeenaBoBeena said:


> I suppose I could do that. I don't know how much more info it's going to give me than the webcam. The point is that if he leaves work but puts his phone in a drawer or something, I'll be able to tell, right? But the webcam shows me when he's not at his desk. Hmm.
> 
> It's too bad I couldn't sneak a GPS into his shoes.. that's something he wouldn't really leave behind.
> 
> ETA: Just looked that up.. wow. That's kind of prohibitively expensive..




No it’s not prohibitively expensive, start shopping GPS solutions and you will see what I mean. The webcam stuff is all well and fine but only covers a limited view of life and you will never really trust it.

If you go the Smartphone GPS route you are getting transparency on your terms 24/7 which should ease your nerves a bit. If he is being straight up with you and wants to show transparency as I suspect he does I doubt he would care about being GPSed for a while. I know I wouldn’t.

Regards,

rotor


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## Hijo (Sep 1, 2011)

rotor said:


> No it’s not prohibitively expensive, start shopping GPS solutions and you will see what I mean. The webcam stuff is all well and fine but only covers a limited view of life and you will never really trust it.
> 
> If you go the Smartphone GPS route you are getting transparency on your terms 24/7 which should ease your nerves a bit. If he is being straight up with you and wants to show transparency as I suspect he does I doubt he would care about being GPSed for a while. I know I wouldn’t.
> 
> ...


RE: cost of gps. If he has an iphone 4, just turn on his mobileme account (I assume you have his appleID and password) and enable the "Find my Phone" functionality. Then you can check the google-map GPS location of that phone whenever you want to. It's all free.


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## DeenaBoBeena (Sep 20, 2011)

rotor said:


> No it’s not prohibitively expensive, start shopping GPS solutions and you will see what I mean. The webcam stuff is all well and fine but only covers a limited view of life and you will never really trust it.
> 
> If you go the Smartphone GPS route you are getting transparency on your terms 24/7 which should ease your nerves a bit. If he is being straight up with you and wants to show transparency as I suspect he does I doubt he would care about being GPSed for a while. I know I wouldn’t.
> 
> ...


Okay, so I looked into it a little more.. he has a Droid X and a Galaxy Tab, and that 'live listening' thing isn't available for either of those. He's totally okay with being GPS'd, and said he'd even already tried out some of the free versions out there, but none of them work well on his phone. He doesn't object to spending the money if I want to, though he was a little concerned that the Mobistealth website kept coming up with error messages last night.

To be honest, I'm much more concerned with how to deal with our other issues right now. We talked a little last night about how we need advice on *how* he can learn to come to me with problems. We know he needs to work on it, but I think he needs more guidance there. The other problem is that since we've been putting such a concerted effort into our marriage right now, he hasn't noticed any instances where he could bring a problem to my attention, but he recognizes that until he actually starts doing it, I'm not going to believe that he's capable, especially if there's a big problem like feeling the urge to cheat.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

just a quick question before I answer your query Deena- Have you both been tested for STD's? Even if your husband used condoms, herpes runs rampant among prostitutes and can be transmitted even if condoms are used.


now to your question- what now?


Well, you obviously both decided you both want R and based on your post your husband is being transparent, isn't contacting prostitutes and is showing remorse. That bodes well for true R and increases your chances greatly of repairing the marriage. The next steps aren't talked about as much on the forums because frankly not too many of us get to this point. I suggest you click the link in my signature to see my story and how my wife and I worked at R.

to start- I HIGHLY recommend both MC and IC (particularly for your husband)

To touch upon the major points of what needs to be done-

1) The doors of communication need to be swung wide open. While your husband's extramarital affairs are 100% his onus and responsibility you will eventually need to start working on the marital issues that you are 50% responsible for. I like to view treating infidelity as triage- the affairs need to be addressed first and then you can start working on the problems in the marriage. You both need to start being 100% truthful to one another, *even if what you have to say may hurt the other*. The trick is to not lay blame right away and truly address how you feel and why you feel this way. You both need to calmly state concerns and reasons why you are unhappy. The other person has to listen carefully and respond in a non-defensive way. It'll be hard at first but after some time and some MC you'll find that this way of communicating will be diffuse many problems in the future. Needs and wants need to met in a marriage and if you don't ask you don't usually get it.

2) You need to spend more time together. You need to start bonding. Plus having more sex will definitely help bond and is lots of fun to boot and relieves stress. (after the std tests come back please) Start finding ways to do more things together. Find things that you both enjoy doing and do them as a couple.

3) You need time- you will go through lots of ups and downs in the next 2-5 years. Yes, it takes two to five years to get past this and reestablish most of the trust. Also understand that this process is not linear, you will have 2 good days and then a bad day and then a good day and 2 bad days, etc Eventually you will have more and more good days as time goes by. So be patient and your husband in particular needs to be patient and understand that he brought this upon himself and needs to eat a lot of sh!t and do the heavy lifting for a long period of time.



hope this helps



My story


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## DeenaBoBeena (Sep 20, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> To touch upon the major points of what needs to be done-
> 
> 1) The doors of communication need to be swung wide open. While your husband's extramarital affairs are 100% his onus and responsibility you will eventually need to start working on the marital issues that you are 50% responsible for. I like to view treating infidelity as triage- the affairs need to be addressed first and then you can start working on the problems in the marriage. You both need to start being 100% truthful to one another, *even if what you have to say may hurt the other*. The trick is to not lay blame right away and truly address how you feel and why you feel this way. You both need to calmly state concerns and reasons why you are unhappy. The other person has to listen carefully and respond in a non-defensive way. It'll be hard at first but after some time and some MC you'll find that this way of communicating will be diffuse many problems in the future. Needs and wants need to met in a marriage and if you don't ask you don't usually get it.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the response. To answer your questions.. yes, we have been tested for STDs. Obviously, we'll be retested at 3 months and 6 months. Until we get the all clear from the 6 month retest, we will use condoms every time. Since resuming intimate relations, we've both been quite satisfied with that part of our lives (we've discussed it outside of the bedroom), with the frequency, the variety, etc. We're both making a good effort there.

We've been doing pretty well, communication wise. Doing the exercises in the Getting Past the Affair book, we generally stay calm and rational, and only rarely will one of us get defensive, and we recognize it quickly and change our attitude. I'm still a little skeptical of his ability to suck it up and be honest with me if he's unhappy about something. I think he needs a lot of practice with smaller issues, and last night he said there just hasn't been anything lately since we've been trying so hard to meet each other's needs. When conflict is unavoidable, we tend to handle it well.. it's just a matter of making sure he's not avoiding conflict.

We've been pretty open and honest about what my role was in making our marriage susceptible, and I'm definitely putting a lot of effort into making him and our marriage a priority. We're going on weekly date nights, and all other nights we spend actively engaged somehow (previously, we tended to do our own things at night).

I'm definitely experiencing the ups and downs, and expect that for quite some time. We had a great date night planned for last Friday, I bought a new outfit (on clearance), and I was so excited. Unfortunately, the event we had tickets for was in the city, where the cheating occurred, and it was way too stressful for me, way too easy to imagine and visualize everything he'd done. We ended up skipping the event and heading back home, and I cried more on the drive home than I have in front of him since finding out. Thankfully, we rallied and had a nice time at a restaurant closer to home, and he was very apologetic and supportive the whole time.. but it still sucked. My mood changes a lot throughout the day, with it being harder to feel good when I'm doing mindless tasks like laundry or the dishes. It's easier to feel good about our chances when we're together, or when I'm busy.

Anyway.. sorry for writing a book (again). I'll definitely read your story, and thank you so much for the advice and support.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Keylogger!
> 
> He won`t be looking for a keylogger
> 
> ...


i agree here is a good one i have used... WebWatcher - Remote Computer Monitoring Software - Web Watcher


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

DeenaBoBeena said:


> I'm still a little skeptical of his ability to suck it up and be honest with me if he's unhappy about something. I think he needs a lot of practice with smaller issues, and last night he said there just hasn't been anything lately since we've been trying so hard to meet each other's needs. When conflict is unavoidable, we tend to handle it well.. it's just a matter of making sure he's not avoiding conflict.



my wife is the same way, I sometimes have to draw things out of her. Pre-affair when she held back I would get passive aggressive with her when she did this, nowadays I just simply state, "Tell me what's bothering you and perhaps I can help, otherwise I would prefer you keep to yourself until you do." She usually will just come out with it at that point or on some occasions just state that she wants to think more on it and tell me later.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

I'll just this into the pile...

Maybe he needs to be checked out for mild psychological disorder like aspergers?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I wouldn't call aspergers mild

it's mild compared to severe autism but it is a fairly obvious disorder


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## DeenaBoBeena (Sep 20, 2011)

aug said:


> I'll just this into the pile...
> 
> Maybe he needs to be checked out for mild psychological disorder like aspergers?


He's actually wondered aloud to me if he's somewhere on the spectrum. Asperger's can be pretty debilitating, but like most disorders, there's a wide range and it's possible that he's mildly affected. I don't know much about what he could do about it at this point, and money is certainly an issue, so who knows if whatever possible treatment would be covered by insurance.


AR, part of the problem is that I just didn't realize that there was something so badly wrong. He was able to hide his unhappiness amazingly well. It's not like I knew he was unhappy and he just wouldn't talk about it. So I'm worried that he'll hide problems and I won't notice, and he just won't come to me about it, and we'll end up back where we were.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

DeenaBoBeena said:


> AR, part of the problem is that I just didn't realize that there was something so badly wrong. He was able to hide his unhappiness amazingly well. It's not like I knew he was unhappy and he just wouldn't talk about it. So I'm worried that he'll hide problems and I won't notice, and he just won't come to me about it, and we'll end up back where we were.


it's a weird time period that you're in

you are angry at the selfishness and reckless behavior of your husband and at the same time you wish to please him more so things improve that he won't do it again. 
But you need to realize that you still can't control him. You can work on the marriage and improve things but your husband is an adult who knows darn well that there is no strike 3 now. He will have to do what's necessary or else he will lose you.

let me put it this way-

he's also feeling conflicted- since he is showing true remorse he is now dealing with how his actions have impacted the relationship. He was afraid of expressing his wants before and now he sees how selfish he was and thus thinks his needs and wants are purely bad and hurtful. 


a few tips-

1) Recognize that there is a temporary shift in the balance of power in the marriage. And there should be one, frankly. For starters you are hurting more than he is. You also need control in order to re-establish trust and he needs to freely relinquish it. As you start to feel better you need to start slowly giving back this power until eventually it is a balanced one again as all good marriages should be.

2) It's a time period of doing things that are counter-intuitive in many ways for both of you. You both have to start forcing yourselves to communicate in different ways than what was done previously. It's hard at first, no doubt, but eventually it becomes habit and more natural to do things the way that's needed.

3) I sense some impatience in you. I was too. I understood things before I could emotionally cope with them. Thus I became antsy to the fact that I was still feeling horrible while recognizing that things were getting better or knowing what I was doing was the correct path. It's frustrating to say the least. -Slow down. It takes time.


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