# Opportunity for cheating men



## Browncoat

So in the thread asking if all men cheat, I noticed a number of folks talk about how they have opportunities to cheat. I guess as a father and a husband I was trying to figure out where this "opportunity" was outside of perhaps work (even then you have to commit to going out alone with someone there, unless you make house calls). Frankly the rest of the time most fathers I don't think have opportunity, unless they are looking to cheat on their wives. Though maybe I live in a bubble so I thought I would ask.

Here are the tasks I typically engage in outside the home (and let's face it most women do go into married men's houses and try and pickup the husband for an affair).

Going shopping (hardware or groceries), I get things hardly talk to anyone. Not like women randomly pickup men there... sorry never seen it or heard of it.

Dropping/Picking up kids at school, which means I sit in my car and inch forward until I get my kids. Zero opportunity to even talk to a woman.

Gym, no one talks or hardly looks at anyone else. I don't see men or women going around hitting on folks there... people just go, work out, and leave.

Church... really is that a big pickup spot? If so, I'd say you're only reason for being there is not religion... again you're explicitly looking for it. I've gone to church all my life, and in that time only heard of one affair (albeit it was a youth pastor and his secretary so I'd file that more under "work" rather than "church").

Rest of the time it's time spent with kids or just around the home... because most Dads have little time for other things.

I could imagine some would mention business trips. I've been on a number, it's not hard to just go back to your hotel after the day is done and get on the phone to your wife. That's what I do... oh unless you are proactively looking for a woman to cheat with.

So again my question is where is this "opportunity" to cheat, unless the father goes looking for women proactively. Just curious (not that I want to cheat just don't understand what the issue is).


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## Jeff/BC

For me, at least, I don't differentiate my life into "zones". I meet lots of women all the time just as I pass through life. Some of them like me. Some of those I like in return. The "opportunity" is there pretty much constantly. 

I can't recall a time when some woman has actually propositioned me though (ignoring the hooker in the strip club). I have three possible reasons for this:

a) I'm an ugly troll.
b) You can't be around me for more than 5 minutes without hearing about how much I love Carol.
c) It does subtly happen and I just don't notice.

Maybe I'm saved from the ordeal by being an ugly troll? That works for me.


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## Mavash.

My friend told me there is this code, this look that men give when they are open to an affair. They seek women out to see if that look is returned. It's almost a secret language that is unnoticable to those of us in committed happy marriages.

I didn't believe her so I began to be more aware and to my shock she's right. I saw it. This married man did it to ME.

My husband works very long unpredicatable hours and I'm a homemaker. Plenty of opportunities for either of us to cheat. I've had friends that cheated and it doesn't take as much time as you think it would. Had one female friend meet up with a guy once a week for sex. What did that take? An hour....at the most? For me that's a trip to Wal-mart. LOL


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## Jeff/BC

Dina said:


> Yeah, this one.


*chuckles* Bummer. So that's a turn off to women? I fear, then, that I'm doomed to be stuck with Carol because I really don't know how to not burble about her.


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## livnlearn

let me preface this by saying that this isn't always the case, so if you have been hit on, no need to get defensive, it's probably not you. ;-) however, I think that many people who get hit on, especially when they say they've had lots of opportunities to cheat, send off a certain "accessibility" vibe. I don't mean that they necessarily walk around consciously wanting to cheat, or even wanting to be hit on..but that they are more open and innately flirtatious, or maybe even just the type that likes attention..be it sexual or other. They carry themselves and relate to people in every day situations differently then do the men like you, OP, describe yourself...and through this they send off a message that they MIGHT be willing to cheat...even though this might not be the case.


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## that_girl

Work.

Work lunches.

Work "events".

Work.


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## Browncoat

that_girl said:


> Work.
> 
> Work lunches.
> 
> Work "events".
> 
> Work.


That was my thought, it doesn't seem like it's something that happens much otherwise.

Livnlearn, yeah I know in my case I don't give off any "will cheat" vibe. I tend to be quiet around folks I don't know well. Still I've not even known any friends to whom temptation has come knocking. It must be the circle I run in.

I've worked at the same company for over 13 years now, and to my knowledge there's not once been an office affair in my division (because if there was one discovered the employees would likely be let go), which over the years has been fairly sizable (100+ people). Then again it's mostly men.


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## waiwera

Browncoat - I've read that most affairs start at work and start off as friendships....

I worked in the fitness industry for years and I can assure you there is ALOT of sex going on. Quite often with the personal trainers.... not all of them...I was one for years and never shagged any clients but i know it goes on... and often.


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## livnlearn

another thing I wanted to add..sometimes people THINK they are being hit on, but they are mistaken. When I started my current job, within the first week a man took me aside and asked me if I was interested in "fooling around". I was pretty shocked because I am pretty reserved and definitely don't send off a "might cheat" vibe. I told him "no" and steered clear of him after that. I later found out that the reason he asked me is that *he* thought *I* was hitting on him. :scratchhead: He told others, "I've never had anyone ask me so fast if I was married". Now I DID ask him if he was married the first time I talked to him..just like I ask most people upon meeting if they are married, have kids, in school..etc.. just as a basis for starting a conversation. Some people though, hear what they want to hear.


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## Entropy3000

Work

Work Lunch

Work Events

Work Travel

I do see guys hitting on women all the time at the gym. Some are personal trainers. I have my headphones on and am focused on lifting. 

I think if men go out to cheat they either go solo or have a wingman and hit the trendy bars / clubs. This probably depends on the social status of the guy. Maybe Jim Bob goes boot scooten. Idunno.


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## Entropy3000

livnlearn said:


> another thing I wanted to add..sometimes people THINK they are being hit on, but they are mistaken. When I started my current job, within the first week a man took me aside and asked me if I was interested in "fooling around". I was pretty shocked because I am pretty reserved and definitely don't send off a "might cheat" vibe. I told him "no" and steered clear of him after that. I later found out that the reason he asked me is that *he* thought *I* was hitting on him. :scratchhead: He told others, "I've never had anyone ask me so fast if I was married". Now I DID ask him if he was married the first time I talked to him..just like I ask most people upon meeting if they are married, have kids, in school..etc.. just as a basis for starting a conversation. Some people though, hear what they want to hear.


Guys always think they are doing great. Seriously. It is part of how guys are wired. Part of the reason some of us feel our wives need to make it very clear where things stand.


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## SimplyAmorous

Browncoat- my husband would likely THINK along the same lines as you did in your post, take away the gym and he could care less about church, his opportunities would be as limited as your personal list. 

He is a quiet man who generally allows for someone else to start the conversation even. Always the cheerful responder but generally not the Open liner.... A woman would likely have to come on to him to even get him to open his mouth.


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## Browncoat

SimplyAmorous said:


> Browncoat- my husband would likely THINK along the same lines as you did in your post, take away the gym and he could care less about church, his opportunities would be as limited as your personal list.
> 
> He is a quiet man who generally allows for someone else to start the conversation even. Always the cheerful responder but generally not the Open liner.... A woman would likely have to come on to him to even get him to open his mouth.


Yeah he sounds like me now.

Though when I was single I was bold (after my long term college GF and before I met my wife). I used to strike up conversations just walking around campus with any gal who caught my eye (well the ones that would talk back that is, lol). I did what I called one and done dates: take them out for a single date if either of us didn't feel a spark for the other... it's done. Sometimes I got to date 2, but typically it wasn't there and that was fine. Nothing more than a good night kiss if I liked the gal, so if it didn't work out no one felt like they got taken advantage of. I pretty much dated 1-2 gals a week (not overlapping, one would end and I'd ask out another).

But that's kind of my point, you have to go seek it... in my experience women don't ask out guys much at all. Heck I used to look like an NFL safety in college, really in great shape (but not overly muscular)... used to work out for 1-2 hours a day. I could tell if a gal wanted me to ask her out, but they didn't ask you still had to seek them out as the guy.

IDK guess my experience wasn't that vast.


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## uhaul4mybaggage

I got hit on a lot when i was happy in my marriage. I think people are attracted to the positive energy and find it sexy. I would be flattered, and always told them I was married. If they kept on like they didn't care that I was married, that just pissed me off. I liked being flattered, but I don't like it when someone doesn't respect the ring.


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## SimplyAmorous

Browncoat said:


> Yeah he sounds like me now.
> 
> Though when I was single I was bold (after my long term college GF and before I met my wife). I used to strike up conversations just walking around campus with any gal who caught my eye (well the ones that would talk back that is, lol). I did what I called one and done dates: take them out for a single date if either of us didn't feel a spark for the other... it's done. Sometimes I got to date 2, but typically it wasn't there and that was fine. Nothing more than a good night kiss if I liked the gal, so if it didn't work out no one felt like they got taken advantage of. I pretty much dated 1-2 gals a week (not overlapping, one would end and I'd ask out another).
> 
> But that's kind of my point, you have to go seek it... in my experience women don't ask out guys much at all. Heck I used to look like an NFL safety in college, really in great shape (but not overly muscular)... used to work out for 1-2 hours a day. I could tell if a gal wanted me to ask her out, but they didn't ask you still had to seek them out as the guy.
> 
> IDK guess my experience wasn't that vast.


Your experience was QUITE vast in comparison to my husbands.... and why so BOLD then... .and somehow quiet NOW ?? Fall into the nice guy thing? or just cause you are marreid, there is nothing to be Bold about.... I assume you are still bold in other areas, your work, etc. Generally these temperment traits remain. 

Mine met me when he was 18, I was just 15...in a new school cafeteria...he was so still shy back then, but he still put himself out there and asked me to go with him within days of us meeting. 

I give him alot of credit for that, he told me a few years ago -he expected me to say NO, but was afraid I would get grabbed up if he didn't ask quickly, he says he had no confidence at all. How funny is that.... I remember running into the bathroom right after thinking wildly to myself ... "Oh my , I hardly know him... what do I say... Hmmmm, then I thought to myself... well .."he is cute enough behind those big glasses".. so I said "Yes". that was our beginning a long long time ago...30 yrs ago. 

He only had 2 insignificant gf's before me, I was the 3rd girl he ever tried to snatch. Third times a charm!


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## Goldmember357

Well seeing how men generally through history approach women its safe to say most men who cheat and will have an affair go looking for the woman. In turn they are met with a woman that is okay with it or in the cases of women cheating they go looking for it. There are plenty of opportunities to cheat basically anytime you are not with your spouse you could if you truly wanted to, however a good amount of them would involve you going to LOOK FOR IT.

Escorts- cost money
Strippers- for extra money
Bars- with easy loose girls
Clubs- look for easy loose girls
Swinger sites, hook up sites- can find someone who wants to bang

^ of course all of those involve the man to actively seek the women of course that is the case in any cheating affair case you have to consent. Other than those id say work or group things are best way's to meet women and strike up friendships which may turn into affair's. Through work you can meet flirt with same women regularly gauge which ones are okay with the married men flirting with them and than go after the ones who are open to your gestures and it can lead to more. Same goes with the gym and personal trainers. I think most men who cheat go looking for it of course i think very very few just happen to stumble upon some woman at work and than she pulls him aside begging for him. I think for men and women when they cheat they go looking for it 9/10 times. I do not believe the "i was hurt and tired and lonely and ____ showed up and i could not control myself")

I still have yet to hear of the man who went out to the bar with some buddies and than 5 hot women surround him and beg to share him in bed. In that case it would be very very hard to turn down such a situation. But how many men does that happen to?


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## Halien

Not sure I buy the theory that those hit on are doing something, or giving off vibes that make them get hit on. Instead, I think some people are more aware of body language and other non-verbals. I tend to be very aware of non-verbals, but wouldn't call it "being hit on" just because I sense some lingering glances or some of the other non-verbal cues. My wife will sometimes ask if I'm seeing something "off" between a couple of people, especially since I tried to get her to talk to her sister about her affair with a friend of the family, which seemed obvious to us, but not her husband for a few months.

We frequently entertain friends and try to set up things with people we come to trust as friends. Sometimes, there have been situations where someone has crossed the line, but my wife and I will let each other know that we're getting uncomfortable if someone begins to behave questionably. 

We had moved to a new area once, and friends from work asked if I would lead the group in rafting/canoeing down a river across the state, where I grew up. I began to notice that a few of the people were not our types of friends. My wife was intimidated by some of the flirting by one guy, and a woman who always seemed to be neaby while we were floating suddenly got a case of wayward hands. We ended the trip early. There were other times. When my wife and I were struggling in the marriage a couple of years ago, one of her friends stopped by during a day when my wife was at a memorial "just to check up on her", and was pretty direct about telling me that her husband never wanted sex, and "that she was there for me". I told my wife about it. There were others, but I've always felt like my committment to my wife was one of the few things in life that I could consistently give her, and I have.


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## AFEH

I got hit on a lot. In fact so much so I had T-shirts printed with “Stay Away from Me!” on the front and “Hands Off!” on the back. But that just seemed to encourage them even more.

If you’re good looking and desirable you’re going to get hit on and you’re going to get tempted. I’m sure it happened to my wife more often than it did me.

It’s like everything in life. It’s not what happens to you that makes you who you are. It’s your responses to things that happen to you that makes you who you are.


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## CandieGirl

Browncoat said:


> So in the thread asking if all men cheat, I noticed a number of folks talk about how they have opportunities to cheat. I guess as a father and a husband I was trying to figure out where this "opportunity" was outside of perhaps work (even then you have to commit to going out alone with someone there, unless you make house calls). Frankly the rest of the time most fathers I don't think have opportunity, unless they are looking to cheat on their wives. Though maybe I live in a bubble so I thought I would ask.
> 
> Here are the tasks I typically engage in outside the home (*and let's face it most women do go into married men's houses and try and pickup the husband for an affair*).
> 
> Going shopping (hardware or groceries), I get things hardly talk to anyone. Not like women randomly pickup men there... sorry never seen it or heard of it.
> 
> Dropping/Picking up kids at school, which means I sit in my car and inch forward until I get my kids. Zero opportunity to even talk to a woman.
> 
> Gym, no one talks or hardly looks at anyone else. I don't see men or women going around hitting on folks there... people just go, work out, and leave.
> 
> Church... really is that a big pickup spot? If so, I'd say you're only reason for being there is not religion... again you're explicitly looking for it. I've gone to church all my life, and in that time only heard of one affair (albeit it was a youth pastor and his secretary so I'd file that more under "work" rather than "church").
> 
> Rest of the time it's time spent with kids or just around the home... because most Dads have little time for other things.
> 
> I could imagine some would mention business trips. I've been on a number, it's not hard to just go back to your hotel after the day is done and get on the phone to your wife. That's what I do... oh unless you are proactively looking for a woman to cheat with.
> 
> So again my question is where is this "opportunity" to cheat, unless the father goes looking for women proactively. Just curious (not that I want to cheat just don't understand what the issue is).


They do??? :lol:


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## tacoma

Browncoat said:


> So again my question is where is this "opportunity" to cheat, unless the father goes looking for women proactively. Just curious (not that I want to cheat just don't understand what the issue is).


For me it`s mostly work, purveyors, employees, sales people.

I get the "How do you use this machine?" at the gym every so often as well.

Every couple of months or so I get baited by some ex on Facebook

Opportunity abounds.


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## CandieGirl

Goldmember357 said:


> I still have yet to hear of the man who went out to the bar with some buddies and than 5 hot women surround him and beg to share him in bed. In that case it would be very very hard to turn down such a situation. But how many men does that happen to?


Fantasy.


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## Browncoat

SimplyAmorous said:


> Your experience was QUITE vast in comparison to my husbands.... and why so BOLD then... .and somehow quiet NOW ?? Fall into the nice guy thing? or just cause you are marreid, there is nothing to be Bold about.... I assume you are still bold in other areas, your work, etc. Generally these temperment traits remain.
> 
> Mine met me when he was 18, I was just 15...in a new school cafeteria...he was so still shy back then, but he still put himself out there and asked me to go with him within days of us meeting.
> 
> I give him alot of credit for that, he told me a few years ago -he expected me to say NO, but was afraid I would get grabbed up if he didn't ask quickly, he says he had no confidence at all. How funny is that.... I remember running into the bathroom right after thinking wildly to myself ... "Oh my , I hardly know him... what do I say... Hmmmm, then I thought to myself... well .."he is cute enough behind those big glasses".. so I said "Yes". that was our beginning a long long time ago...30 yrs ago.
> 
> He only had 2 insignificant gf's before me, I was the 3rd girl he ever tried to snatch. Third times a charm!


I can be open and talk to anyone at anytime. Around people I know well I can be quite loquacious, lol my wife probably wants me to talk less than I do sometimes. 

It's around people I don't know I just prefer to get a feel about someone before I open my mouth. If I want something I will speak right up (like some gal I wanted to date when I was single). It's just a lot more comfortable for me to be quiet though, and in crowded situations I get very quiet... it's then when I feel most shy. I've always preferred to talk to folks 1 or 2 at a time.

To be honest I find people fascinating, and I really love watching and listening to people. If I do all the talking I just get to see folks staring at me and I don't get to hear what they have to say.

I think everyone does this either wittingly or not, but around people I don't know well I tend to alter my demeanor to make them more comfortable. This requires that I do a lot of listening, which I enjoy anyway. If they are serious minded, I'll be serious back, if they are more jovial I'll joke around, if they have a particular interest I prefer to talk about things they like to talk about (and even if I don't know a darn thing about it, I'll just ask them about w/e it is... people love to go on and on about what they are interested in), etc.

To be honest I think a lot of that goes back to when I was a kid moving around to different schools a fair bit from 3rd to 9th grade I went to 5 schools. Found out that if you didn't want to get beaten up... best to keep your mouth closed and your ears open when you were the new kid.


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## Amplexor

A hound is a hound. If he wants to cheat he will find the opportunity and the time to do so. It doesn't matter how busy he is, it'll happen. President Bill Clinton is the poster boy for it. Probably the busiest man in the word at the time, with nearly every second of his day scheduled and still........

A hound is a hound.


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## Mrs. T

Browncoat if there are really so few opportunities how is it there is so much cheating going on?


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## SimplyAmorous

Browncoat said:


> *I can be open and talk to anyone at anytime.* Around people I know well I can be quite loquacious, lol my wife probably wants me to talk less than I do sometimes.
> 
> *It's around people I don't know I just prefer to get a feel about someone before I open my mouth.* If I want something I will speak right up (like some gal I wanted to date when I was single). * It's just a lot more comfortable for me to be quiet though, and in crowded situations I get very quiet... it's then when I feel most shy. I've always preferred to talk to folks 1 or 2 at a time.*
> 
> *To be honest I find people fascinating, and I really love watching and listening to people*. If I do all the talking I just get to see folks staring at me and I don't get to hear what they have to say.
> 
> I think everyone does this either wittingly or not, *but around people I don't know well I tend to alter my demeanor to make them more comfortable. This requires that I do a lot of listening, which I enjoy anyway*. *If they are serious minded, I'll be serious back, if they are more jovial I'll joke around, if they have a particular interest I prefer to talk about things they like to talk about (and even if I don't know a darn thing about it, I'll just ask them about w/e it is... people love to go on and on about what they are interested in), etc*.


 Are you ME ??? --- I would describe myself EXACTLY the same as this.....(everything in green)... Had to look up >> " *loquacious*". Yep, some would accuse me of being that. I hope not all.. that defintion is bordering on a chatter box.....to being "articulate"- expressing yourself by clear expressive language.


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## Po12345

I am friendly and outgoing, so I connect well with people, even those I don't know. It is hard to draw a line between this, and being flirtatious, so I've had situations where women have come on to me. 

I find it relatively easy to avoid allowing this to ever go beyond that:

No matter what I am doing, I always think to myself "How would I act if my wife was sitting here with me?" and that really helps out a lot. If there is anything that seems even remotely questionable, I refrain from doing it. I will bring up my wife in conversations with other women if it appears they are not getting the hint. If this doesn't work, I will extract myself and leave. It isn't that I don't trust myself, it just makes me uncomfortable to be in a situation where someone is hitting on me repeatedly.


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## SimplyAmorous

Goldmember357 said:


> I think for men and women when they cheat they go looking for it 9/10 times. I do not believe the "i was hurt and tired and lonely and ____ showed up and i could not control myself")


 I feel when a good person cheats, and Yes.... I feel GOOD People can fall into something (many many say ...Oh it can never happen to me..then when it does, they eat those words).....it is born out of lonliness, a cold rejecting spouse at home, where they are dying inside....they feel unloved, worthless even, another is friendly to them, someone shows they care....we all have emotions and a sex drive... one thing does lead to another.... we are only human....

When you find yourself in the desert in your own home....months , years at a time...water starts looking pretty damn good outside your doors. But yeah, better to leave those spouses! I am not the cheater type.. but I do not feel I am above falling into something if my husband made me feel like dirt everyday, rejected me continously ,If I was bordering depression over feeling I was worthless... No, that temptation might be too damn much to bare. But I know me.. I would cause so much hell over my unhappiness, raising the roof off of the house...he'd know exactly where I was heading. One thing I am .... is honest. 

I feel this is an excellent book, an excellent author, though many will be insulted by it's title:

 When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationships : Mira Kirshenbaum: Books


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## Mavash.

livnlearn said:


> let me preface this by saying that this isn't always the case, so if you have been hit on, no need to get defensive, it's probably not you. ;-) however, I think that many people who get hit on, especially when they say they've had lots of opportunities to cheat, send off a certain "accessibility" vibe.


This is what my friend said. She said since she's been separated she's studied men. She said she can pick out a happily married COMMITTED man in a nanosecond. They don't give her a second glance and she's a head turner.

Bottom line is they are accessible and since she's single yes she had that vibe.


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## Po12345

SimplyAmorous said:


> I feel when a good person cheats, and Yes.... I feel GOOD People can fall into something (many many say ...Oh it can never happen to me..then when it does, they eat those words).....it is born out of lonliness, a cold rejecting spouse at home, where they are dying inside....they feel unloved, worthless even, another is friendly to them, someone shows they care....we all have emotions and a sex drive... one thing does lead to another.... we are only human....
> 
> When you find yourself in the desert in your own home....months , years at a time...water starts looking pretty damn good outside your doors. *But yeah, better to leave those spouses! * I am not the cheater type.. but I do not feel I am above falling into something if my husband made me feel like dirt everyday, rejected me continously ,If I was bordering depression over feeling I was worthless... No, that temptation might be too damn much to bare. But I know me.. I would cause so much hell over my unhappiness, raising the roof off of the house...he'd know exactly where I was heading. One thing I am .... is honest.
> 
> I feel this is an excellent book, an excellent author, though many will be insulted by it's title:
> 
> When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationships : Mira Kirshenbaum: Books


I bolded a portion of this to point something out: If you do not communicate your feelings to your spouse you are just as responsible for your own misery as your spouse is for your perception of the situation.

I believed for 7 years that I had a perfect marriage, the last five of which were when I got back from Iraq, and my wife was not happy with me, and _failed to ever tell me how unhappy she was, and when asked would deny it had anything to do with me._ Through counseling we both realized we were equally to blame for what happened, but it didn't make it any less devastating for me. 

This is not to imply anything about anyone else's relationship, but given my own situation, my wife was ready to leave me, while I was going along all 'happy go lucky' not realizing that anything was wrong. It was like getting broadsided by a cement truck, especially with everything that happened that I didn't know about leading up to 'revelation day', as I would call it.


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## Tall Average Guy

Browncoat said:


> So in the thread asking if all men cheat, I noticed a number of folks talk about how they have opportunities to cheat. I guess as a father and a husband I was trying to figure out where this "opportunity" was outside of perhaps work (even then you have to commit to going out alone with someone there, unless you make house calls). Frankly the rest of the time most fathers I don't think have opportunity, unless they are looking to cheat on their wives. Though maybe I live in a bubble so I thought I would ask.
> 
> Here are the tasks I typically engage in outside the home (and let's face it most women do go into married men's houses and try and pickup the husband for an affair).
> 
> Going shopping (hardware or groceries), I get things hardly talk to anyone. Not like women randomly pickup men there... sorry never seen it or heard of it.
> 
> Dropping/Picking up kids at school, which means I sit in my car and inch forward until I get my kids. Zero opportunity to even talk to a woman.
> 
> Gym, no one talks or hardly looks at anyone else. I don't see men or women going around hitting on folks there... people just go, work out, and leave.
> 
> Church... really is that a big pickup spot? If so, I'd say you're only reason for being there is not religion... again you're explicitly looking for it. I've gone to church all my life, and in that time only heard of one affair (albeit it was a youth pastor and his secretary so I'd file that more under "work" rather than "church").
> 
> Rest of the time it's time spent with kids or just around the home... because most Dads have little time for other things.
> 
> I could imagine some would mention business trips. I've been on a number, it's not hard to just go back to your hotel after the day is done and get on the phone to your wife. That's what I do... oh unless you are proactively looking for a woman to cheat with.
> 
> So again my question is where is this "opportunity" to cheat, unless the father goes looking for women proactively. Just curious (not that I want to cheat just don't understand what the issue is).


If by opportunity, you mean seeing a potential opportunity, then yes to all those things you mention and more. A couple that jumped to my mind immediately were while I was with my kids of all things. In both cases, a single woman casually struck up a conversation where our kids were playing together. Nothing overt, but in both cases it seem like more than just commenting on Johnny and Billy playing together. I quickly made sure to mention my wife and how we loved our kids, and both backed off. I have no reason to think it was anything other than checking to see if I was single (one I specifically remember holding stuff so no wedding ring was visible), but who knows? Had I wanted to, it was a potential opportunity to see if more was on the table. In that sense, I see those as opportunities to cheat.


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## livnlearn

so much really is in the perception of the receiver. Tall Average Guy had a woman make small talk with him at a park, and he thought she was wondering if he was available..and she very well may have been doing that...but another man with lower self esteem may have never considered that the woman was talking for any other reason then she likes to chat. I have a friend who thinks every time a man initiates conversation with her, he is doing it because he really finds her hot. A guy could be driving down the street, lost, and stop to ask her directions because she is the only human being he's seen for 100 miles....and in her mind, he is "hitting on her".


----------



## Lionelhutz

The opportunities I have had are almost exclusively through work and business connections. What I define as an "opportunity" is a woman who is persistently flirting and or suggesting social interactions with just the two of us outside of work. And no I don't consider myself a hot stud.

Outside of work, there is no chance that I would interrupt a fellow stranger following their own monotony of everyday life with chit chat at the grocery store or gym. 

Also in non-work interactions there isn't the same level of intensity and innocent repetition so when those opportunities arise I have to assume they are actively sought out. 


Even with a good marriage it isn't hard to imagine working closely with a female colleague on something where you otherwise share a lot in common and it involves long hours and the right mix of adrenaline and stress. For me an opportunity did arise without seeking it out and even when my unavailability was made clear.


----------



## Browncoat

Mrs. T said:


> Browncoat if there are really so few opportunities how is it there is so much cheating going on?


I don't disagree for a second that cheating is happening all over the place... that's a fact.

Bottom line is I have this theory that really a guy has to seek an affair for it to happen. That there aren't all these opportunities opening up right left and center purely by accident/happenstance... though perhaps I'm wrong (hence the thread).


----------



## Browncoat

livnlearn said:


> so much really is in the perception of the receiver. Tall Average Guy had a woman make small talk with him at a park, and he thought she was wondering if he was available..and she very well may have been doing that...but another man with lower self esteem may have never considered that the woman was talking for any other reason then she likes to chat. I have a friend who thinks every time a man initiates conversation with her, he is doing it because he really finds her hot. A guy could be driving down the street, lost, and stop to ask her directions because she is the only human being he's seen for 100 miles....and in her mind, he is "hitting on her".


Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these "opportunities" folks talk about might be partly their own perception.

Still I can't discount all this talk about folks giving each other "a look". I'll just have to keep my radar up and see for myself if it's happening between others around me (not at all interested in trying to send out any vibe myself).


----------



## Halien

Mavash. said:


> This is what my friend said. She said since she's been separated she's studied men. She said she can pick out a happily married COMMITTED man in a nanosecond. They don't give her a second glance and she's a head turner.
> 
> Bottom line is they are accessible and since she's single yes she had that vibe.


I've always felt like you have to go a little deeper than just that vibe people give off. To me, what you are describing is more like projection/feedback awareness that some people give off. Some guys will see this in a woman and assume that she is coming on to them, when they are not. Its like they are constantly checking others to see if they are aware of them, and nothing more. Sometimes, it can look like blatant flirting. 

I'm no expert, but I would say that what your friend is noticing is that this guy is noticing her. We tend to bury this behavior while in committed relationships, but really expressive people sometimes don't. Also, to your point, people who are looking for something outside their relationship also do this. Insecure people do this alot. They seem to need that non-verbal confirmation from others.


----------



## seeking sanity

I think you could put this into two different catagories: 

1. Boundary slipping: Slow burn office romance, where man and woman both start to share too much and develop feelings over time, resulting in an affair. 

2. Sex seeking: Opportunistic. Man is sending and receiving signals and pursuing opportunity.

I agree it's almost never overt: I'm pretty clueless about these things and exist far more in my head then I do in the outside world, and I can think of several times I've received subtle "inquiries" by women. It wasn't overt, and at the time I'm not sure I even acknowledged it to myself, but I'm sure if I'd been willing to pursue it, I could have turned it into an opportunity. I find my default, without thinking, is to back off and shut it down. 

For example, someone's wife at a party starts to diss her husband to you and share too much about their relationship. It's an invitation, albeit subtle. The right thing to do is change the subject or move on to another conversation. The opportunist would see it as an invitation to egg her on and get in with that woman.

Maybe that's just a sign of my moral compass.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Po12345 said:


> I bolded a portion of this to point something out: If you do not communicate your feelings to your spouse you are just as responsible for your own misery as your spouse is for your perception of the situation.


Couldn't agree with you more :smthumbup: I am hardly one who lacks communication. My husband, however, did suffer silently ... he was too passive for many years in our marraige over wanting more sex. I thought he had a lower drive, he thought I did !! That is how bad we missed each other ...over me being repressed and him being too passive...he had some of those "bad" nice guy traits spoken of in "No More Mr Nice Guy".... love him anyway... 

BUT .... I told him if he ever does that again to me, not speaking up, I am going to put his balls in a vise. 

He just laughs, but really... Honest heartfelt vulnerable Communication is.... E V E R Y T H I N G ...in a healthy marraige. If you can't get on the same page (even after some counseling)...still not happy... miserable.... depressed....lonely...... I'm for divorce.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

livnlearn said:


> so much really is in the perception of the receiver. Tall Average Guy had a woman make small talk with him at a park, and he thought she was wondering if he was available..and she very well may have been doing that...but another man with lower self esteem may have never considered that the woman was talking for any other reason then she likes to chat. I have a friend who thinks every time a man initiates conversation with her, he is doing it because he really finds her hot. A guy could be driving down the street, lost, and stop to ask her directions because she is the only human being he's seen for 100 miles....and in her mind, he is "hitting on her".


I suppose that is possible. I don't think it is, in large part because I rarely think I get hit on. My wife has even commented to me that I am pretty clueless about women flirting with me. In one of the examples I gave above, I mentioned during the natural course of the conversation that my wife was going to pick my son and I up from the park. Within three minutes, she had ended the conversation with me and started up a different one with another woman there at the park. 


Regardless, my point is that there are a lot of these sorts of interactions that are openings to see what might be there. Even if you are wrong 95% of the time, that still leaves lots of opportunites if you are so inclined.


----------



## rundown

I used to get my coffee at the same gas station every morning. Would always make small talk with the cashier, until one day she asked me out. Wasn't as if I was looking for anything but I am just a friendly person, with no issues talking to people. I get my coffee from a differnt gas station now. Although it did feel pretty good to know I still had it.


----------



## norajane

that_girl said:


> Work.
> 
> Work lunches.
> 
> Work "events".
> 
> Work.


Yes.

And they flirt, they linger, they flirt more, their comments get more and more suggestive, and they proposition.

The guys who say they have opportunities to cheat are guys who are on the lookout for them. If a person isn't looking to test drive a new car, they don't pay special attention to car ads. 

The guys who are not remotely thinking about cheating, also don't create that kind of environment around them. They don't linger, they don't flirt, they don't make suggestive comments, and they don't look for chances to be alone with a woman they are attracted to. 

I also believe men THINK they have more "opportunities" to cheat than they really do. Just because a woman is politely listening or is "stuck" listening (because she has to participate in those lunches and events or work projects and wants to keep the relationships smooth enough to not create waves with her job), doesn't mean she would hop into bed with the guy.


----------



## Lionelhutz

norajane said:


> Yes.
> 
> And they flirt, they linger, they flirt more, their comments get more and more suggestive, and they proposition.
> 
> The guys who say they have opportunities to cheat are guys who are on the lookout for them. If a person isn't looking to test drive a new car, they don't pay special attention to car ads.
> .


Not true in my experience at least. 

Is it simply inconceivable to you that there are women who intentionally try to pick up or flirt with married men?

Being invited out the drinks by a coworker after already working late is an opportunity. Consistently having conversations turned towards the personal notwithstanding consistent attempts to put it back on the professional is likely an opportunity.

Sometimes you don't have to looking to be looking at ads to have a sales rep show up at the door.


----------



## CandieGirl

Normal interactions, such as at church, the grocery store, or the park with your kids are not opportunities to cheat.

Being out of town on business without your partner, letting boundaries with the opposite sex slacken, adding alcohol thereby lowering inhibitions; of course, due to distance, this goes undetected by your spouse...that is an opportunity to cheat.


----------



## Halien

norajane said:


> Yes.
> 
> And they flirt, they linger, they flirt more, their comments get more and more suggestive, and they proposition.
> 
> The guys who say they have opportunities to cheat are guys who are on the lookout for them. If a person isn't looking to test drive a new car, they don't pay special attention to car ads.
> 
> The guys who are not remotely thinking about cheating, also don't create that kind of environment around them. They don't linger, they don't flirt, they don't make suggestive comments, and they don't look for chances to be alone with a woman they are attracted to.
> 
> I also believe men THINK they have more "opportunities" to cheat than they really do. Just because a woman is politely listening or is "stuck" listening (because she has to participate in those lunches and events or work projects and wants to keep the relationships smooth enough to not create waves with her job), doesn't mean she would hop into bed with the guy.


Using the logic behind this demeaning view of men, would you also then agree that we can say that any woman who receives a sexual suggestion from a man, or has been subject to flirting by a man, is on the prowl for an affair? Or are women superior in this regard?

I'm saddened to see how many people assume that a man is a cheating prowler, or sending suspicious vibes, if someone else crosses their boundaries. Or maybe we're just supposed to infer that women never initiate inappropriate behavior?


----------



## norajane

Halien said:


> Using the logic behind this demeaning view of men, would you also then agree that we can say that any woman who receives a sexual suggestion from a man, or has been subject to flirting by a man, is on the prowl for an affair? Or are women superior in this regard?


It works both ways, not only specific to men. Women also cheat and they do those same things (flirting lingering, propositioning). And, of course, there are single women willing to be with men who are married so they also participate in the game.

However, the OP asked about men who _say _ they have "opportunities" to cheat and where that would happen. That is what I was addressing, in my experience working with many men in the consulting and software industries.


----------



## Lionelhutz

norajane said:


> And, of course, there are single women willing to be with men who are married so they also participate in the game.
> 
> However, the OP asked about men who _say _ they have "opportunities" to cheat and where that would happen. That is what I was addressing, in my experience working with many men in the consulting and software industries.



You say there are women who are "willing to participate" but in order for your assertion to be true that these "opportunities" never happen unless the man is looking you have to be saying the women never initiate or it simply not true.


----------



## CandieGirl

I believe the OP was referring to certain men who appear to boast about the opportunities that present themselves that they are constantly turning down. I've seen that here a few times...


----------



## frustr8dhubby

I have said that and it wasn't intended to be "boasting". It hasn't happened often but I will say that with the exception of one they were "out of the blue".

I am no "stud" and don't believe I put out any type of looking vibe (at least not consciously). Though I am pretty open about sexuality so maybe it is perceived that way. What do I know, I can't even get my own wife to want me???


----------



## Browncoat

CandieGirl said:


> I believe the OP was referring to certain men who appear to boast about the opportunities that present themselves that they are constantly turning down. I've seen that here a few times...


Yep, that's exactly it.

There are some really interesting responses to this thread though. For example seeking sanity's take on boundary slipping, that's one area where I could see opportunity arise almost unexpectedly... an area any married man needs to be very careful with.

Also some cases where men were propositioned by women, though still men have the choice to turn down those advances. Still in a moment of weakness I can see that being a big problem.


----------



## frustr8dhubby

Dina said:


> How was that other one not out of the blue? Was it craigslist?
> :rofl:


No, that one I consciously engaged in unfortunately.


----------



## CandieGirl

frustr8dhubby said:


> I have said that and it wasn't intended to be "boasting". It hasn't happened often but I will say that with the exception of one they were "out of the blue".
> 
> I am no "stud" and don't believe I put out any type of looking vibe (at least not consciously). Though I am pretty open about sexuality so maybe it is perceived that way. What do I know, I can't even get my own wife to want me???


I don't know, we all get hit on in life...but not every situation is an opportunity. Perception is key, too.


----------



## frustr8dhubby

Dina said:


> How far did it go? A full-blown A?


No I just let it get too far in the flirting department.

*EDIT* Meaning I knew she was flirting with me and I didn't shut it down, I engaged in the flirting.


----------



## frustr8dhubby

CandieGirl said:


> I don't know, we all get hit on in life...but not every situation is an opportunity. Perception is key, too.


I VERY rarely do and these were specific "hey do you want to go upstairs" kinds of things. Little hard to misread those even for my dumb arse, no?


----------



## norajane

Lionelhutz said:


> You say there are women who are "willing to participate" but in order for your assertion to be true that these "opportunities" never happen unless the man is looking you have to be saying the women never initiate or it simply not true.


Did I say never? I don't think I did.

And I also didn't say "willing to participate". I said women DO participate in the game. That can mean they initiate or respond.

I just don't believe there are lots of men running around talking specifically about "opportunities to cheat" unless they SEE them AS opportunities rather than an unwanted occurrence. Just using the word Opportunity implies they see it as a positive.


----------



## CandieGirl

Browncoat said:


> Yep, that's exactly it.
> 
> Also some cases where men were propositioned by women, though still men have the choice to turn down those advances. *Still in a moment of weakness I can see that being a big problem.*


Kind of like your car breaking down in the desert, no cell service, nothing around for miles and an AAA towtruck happens to be driving by? You have to ask yourself how likely that is to happen.

And what do you mean, a moment of weakness? Let's say I have a big fight with H while he's away on business. Then someone flirts with me at the grocery store. Do you think I'm really going to go off, get my revenge (or solace) by cheating? No. I'm probably going to be so mad, I don't even notice the flirter.


----------



## CandieGirl

frustr8dhubby said:


> I VERY rarely do and these were specific "hey do you want to go upstairs" kinds of things. Little hard to misread those even for my dumb arse, no?


Oh, so this happens to you fairly frequently, then? If anyone made that particular suggestion to me, I'd hit them with my handbag. But that's just me. I'm a lady. :lol:


----------



## Mavash.

Halien said:


> I've always felt like you have to go a little deeper than just that vibe people give off. To me, what you are describing is more like projection/feedback awareness that some people give off. Some guys will see this in a woman and assume that she is coming on to them, when they are not.


Oh I agree the vibe is just part of the equation. My point is if someone is looking to have an affair there are people out there that will accomodate. All you have to do is open your eyes. And as if by magic they will find each other AND the time to cheat.

I believe wholeheartedly that thoughts become things so all it takes really is two willing participants. Yes I also believe in fate, karma, etc. and all that so we could really get deep on this. LOL


----------



## CandieGirl

frustr8dhubby said:


> I VERY rarely do and these were specific "hey do you want to go upstairs" kinds of things. Little hard to misread those even for my dumb arse, no?


Just curious: what kinds of situations do you get yourself into that you're being invited upstairs?


----------



## Mavash.

frustr8dhubby said:


> No I just let it get too far in the flirting department.
> 
> *EDIT* Meaning I knew she was flirting with me and I didn't shut it down, I engaged in the flirting.


Because you didn't want to which made you a willing participant.

Not that I blame you if I were in your shoes I'd likely have done the same thing.

That his needs/her needs book isn't called "affair proofing" for nothing. No it doesn't guarantee that someone won't cheat but it is a hefty insurance policy against it.


----------



## AFEH

norajane said:


> Yes.
> 
> And they flirt, they linger, they flirt more, their comments get more and more suggestive, and they proposition.
> 
> The guys who say they have opportunities to cheat are guys who are on the lookout for them. If a person isn't looking to test drive a new car, they don't pay special attention to car ads.
> 
> The guys who are not remotely thinking about cheating, also don't create that kind of environment around them. They don't linger, they don't flirt, they don't make suggestive comments, and they don't look for chances to be alone with a woman they are attracted to.
> 
> I also believe men THINK they have more "opportunities" to cheat than they really do. Just because a woman is politely listening or is "stuck" listening (because she has to participate in those lunches and events or work projects and wants to keep the relationships smooth enough to not create waves with her job), doesn't mean she would hop into bed with the guy.


Maybe you should get out more.

I’ve had work colleagues ask me on “dates” to see what I’m like in bed, women knocking on hotel bedroom doors in the early hours of the morning, girls as young as sixteen when in my late twenties wanting some experience, women arrange parties to make opportunities for sex with me, mates daughters coming onto me on balconies and following me into bathrooms and it goes on.

Seems like you think males are the only initiators of sex. I’m here to tell you we’re most definitely not.


----------



## CandieGirl

AFEH said:


> Maybe you should get out more.
> 
> I’ve had work colleagues ask me on “dates” to see what I’m like in bed, women knocking on hotel bedroom doors in the early hours of the morning, girls as young as sixteen when in my late twenties wanting some experience, women arrange parties to make opportunities for sex with me, mates daughters coming onto me on balconies and following me into bathrooms and it goes on.
> 
> Seems like you think males are the only initiators of sex. I’m here to tell you we’re most definitely not.


And maybe YOU should stay in more!


----------



## AFEH

Dina said:


> Did you ever take the opportunity?


In the very early years of my marriage. Then never again for over thirty-five years.


----------



## Halien

Mavash. said:


> Oh I agree the vibe is just part of the equation. My point is if someone is looking to have an affair there are people out there that will accomodate. All you have to do is open your eyes. And as if by magic they will find each other AND the time to cheat.
> 
> I believe wholeheartedly that thoughts become things so all it takes really is two willing participants. Yes I also believe in fate, karma, etc. and all that so we could really get deep on this. LOL


You're right. And the finny thing is that since this is all so subtle, if the two people are caught in the early stages, after both of them have been playing this game, they'll inviariably say, "we'll, it just kinda' happened ... It caught us by surprise."


----------



## frustr8dhubby

CandieGirl said:


> Oh, so this happens to you fairly frequently, then? If anyone made that particular suggestion to me, I'd hit them with my handbag. But that's just me. I'm a lady. :lol:


No, are you reading what I am typing? I RARELY get hit on. I am not your macho/alpha male that you all seem to drool over.

As for the opportunities. Honestly, most of them have been on business conferences. Several of us go out for dinner/drinks, etc. (Usually salesperson invites all of their clients kind of thing.).


----------



## CandieGirl

I know I'm a chick, so maybe it's different for you guys out there, but I've noticed that I don't seem to get hit on as much when I'm happy and in a committed relationship. Or maybe I don't notice?

I cheated in a LTR about 10 years ago; I only started noticing the opportunities as we've been calling them, when I became increasingly dissatisfied with the relationship. I made the wrong choice obviously...


----------



## AFEH

CandieGirl said:


> And maybe YOU should stay in more!


As I said if you’re good looking and desirable, if you look healthy and in control, if you’re somewhat successful then women will come onto you more or less no matter where you are.

And these aren’t women off the street! These are bright intelligent women any man would normally be pleased to be with and usually very good looking! I’ve had mate’s wives all over me on dance floors with their tongue down my throat such that they’ve had to drag them off!


----------



## CandieGirl

frustr8dhubby said:


> No, are you reading what I am typing? I RARELY get hit on. I am not your macho/alpha male that you all seem to drool over.
> 
> As for the opportunities. Honestly, most of them have been on business conferences. Several of us go out for dinner/drinks, etc. (Usually salesperson invites all of their clients kind of thing.).


"you all"??? Ya right.

I know exactly what goes on on business trips. Been on quite a few myself, and it's all a matter of controlling one's self.


----------



## CandieGirl

AFEH said:


> As I said if you’re good looking and desirable, if you look healthy and in control, if you’re somewhat successful then women will come onto you more or less no matter where you are.
> 
> And these aren’t women off the street! These are bright intelligent women any man would normally be pleased to be with and usually very good looking! I’ve had mate’s wives all over me on dance floors with their tongue down my throat such that they’ve had to drag them off!


Wow, you sound simply unresistalbe! Are you married? If so, I still say you should stay in with your wife! If not, disregard.


----------



## Mavash.

Halien said:


> You're right. And the finny thing is that since this is all so subtle, if the two people are caught in the early stages, after both of them have been playing this game, they'll inviariably say, "we'll, it just kinda' happened ... It caught us by surprise."


Many things in life are subtle because most people sleepwalk through life having no clue why they do the things they do. All it would take is a dent in the marital armour to be vulnerable to the attention of another. 

That "it just happened" thing is really nuts. What you just woke up with your penis inside another woman? Your car just happened to drive to the hotel? What did you think was going to happen - have a nice chat? LOL

And it all likely started over some what seemed like innocent conversation between two adults.


----------



## AFEH

Dina said:


> So you cheated on your wife? And then go around on threads saying not all men cheat? Whats wrong with that picture?
> 
> I am remembering that in one post you claimed you havent been with another woman in 40 years. Ah the truth comes out, doesnt it.


You calling me a liar? I take an exceedingly dim view of that.


Now bring up that post you are remembering. Prove it.


Plus prove where I said not all men are cheats. Prove it.


----------



## Browncoat

Dina said:


> Several posts of yours in this thread sound like you're almost a bit jealous that others have the opportunity and you do not.


I can see why you'd think that, but no not wishing to be hit on at all. I'm just skeptical based on my own personal experience (but that may be because of how I conduct myself, which I'll explain more of below).

As for being worried that it will be a problem down the road: I wouldn't say "worry" is the correct word, more like vigilant or concerned. I just know that no man (or woman) is above succumbing to temptation, since none of us are perfect.

I go out of my way to be very careful in my dealings with women in real life. On the internet I feel free to discuss things like this, and problems in my marriage... in real life I'd never broach these subjects to a female other than our sex therapist (who happens to be female). I don't spend any time alone with any women outside of my family (unless it's a doctor, i.e. non-sexual).

My wife and I often times go through stretches of limited or no sexual activity, and for a HD male such as myself it could lead to moments of weakness... all the more reason for me to be vigilant to try and avoid dangerous situations. I don't even want to risk an EA.

It's not like in my heart I'm eager to jump at the next woman to walk into proximity... it's just that I want to be vigilant. So I was curious where all these "opportunities" were arising from, so that I could learn and avoid w/e came up.


----------



## livnlearn

AFEH said:


> I’ve had work colleagues ask me on “dates” to see what I’m like in bed, women knocking on hotel bedroom doors in the early hours of the morning, girls as young as sixteen when in my late twenties wanting some experience, women arrange parties to make opportunities for sex with me, mates daughters coming onto me on balconies and following me into bathrooms and it goes on.


----------



## CandieGirl

What's that bloody movie? Archie? Arthur? With the guy who just cant' seem to stop getting him into 'situations'? It starts with an A...


----------



## Trickster

I am very quiet myself and would never hit on women. I have a very cute smile though and I look at people in the eye. If I do lokk up and down at a woman I am no aware of it. 

Before my wife and I were married... even before we were living together my neighbor wanted me to fix her "plumbing" so I had my tools and went to the clogged sink...Although it wasn't the sink that was clogged. SHE WAS. I was faithful to my GF. that was 19 or so years ago and we been together ever since.

Once recently in the store, a woman 20 years younger kinda followed me all over the store (so it seemed) At the check-out-line, she was right behind me complementing me on my calves. I just came from the gym..All hot sweaty, and stinky. She was looking for a complement in return, I think.

I am a orthopedic Massage Therapist and when I first started out doing the froo froo house call stuff, there was a couple of times when they wanted more. There was a time when the HUSBAND wanted me to have sex with his wife.

When I worked at a spa, I had a dozen Hooters Girls that I massaged. I was married then. Some of them were overly flirtatious. My ego was pretty big then.

Now I work for myself and in my practice clients keep their clothes on. 

Now... there is a woman at the cafe where I eat lunch......hmmmm or I should say YUMMMMY. Very sweet and really looks at me.

I have a few clients, even though they are fully clothed, I have known them for a long time now and we have interesting conversations. No EA, but it is pretty close.

I don't think I would ever cheat. When it comes down to it, I didn't cheat when My wife and I were just dating and I wouldn't cheat now that we are married, Even though we have issues. heck.. We've been together 20 years now.


----------



## Mavash.

> Browncoat;685514I just know that no man (or woman) is above succumbing to temptation, since none of us are perfect.
> 
> I go out of my way to be very careful in my dealings with women in real life. On the internet I feel free to discuss things like this, and problems in my marriage... in real life I'd never broach these subjects to a female other than our sex therapist (who happens to be female). I don't spend any time alone with any women outside of my family (unless it's a doctor, i.e. non-sexual).


EXACTLY!!! You must be vigilant. My husband and I have similar rules for ourselves. We refuse to put ourselves in this situation because our marriage is just worth too much to us.

Why risk it?


----------



## AFEH

CandieGirl said:


> Wow, you sound simply unresistalbe! Are you married? If so, I still say you should stay in with your wife! If not, disregard.


Ha! I’m in my sixties but have good memories of years gone by when I look back.


But I’ve been immensely tempted. With some women there’s like a powerfully magnetic attraction going on. It’s when the pheromones are firing away seemingly all by themselves. It’s even happened in front of my wife and I’ve had to snap myself out of it when I’ve realised what’s going on. The same things have happened to my wife. She was immensely cute and even in her 50s attracted men in their 30s. I’ve seen her behaving at times like an in love teenager.

These things happen. It is what we do with them, not the fact that they happen, that counts.


----------



## frustr8dhubby

CandieGirl said:


> I know I'm a chick, so maybe it's different for you guys out there, but I've noticed that I don't seem to get hit on as much when I'm happy and in a committed relationship. Or maybe I don't notice?
> 
> I cheated in a LTR about 10 years ago; I only started noticing the opportunities as we've been calling them, when I became increasingly dissatisfied with the relationship. I made the wrong choice obviously...


I don't think it has to do with gender, I actually agree with you. I have probably noticed more in the last two years or so because in some ways I am seeking the approval. My wife isn't interested in me and it feels nice to be "noticed" some times.


----------



## Entropy3000

seeking sanity said:


> I think you could put this into two different catagories:
> 
> *1. Boundary slipping: Slow burn office romance, where man and woman both start to share too much and develop feelings over time, resulting in an affair. *
> 
> 2. Sex seeking: Opportunistic. Man is sending and receiving signals and pursuing opportunity.
> 
> I agree it's almost never overt: I'm pretty clueless about these things and exist far more in my head then I do in the outside world, and I can think of several times I've received subtle "inquiries" by women. It wasn't overt, and at the time I'm not sure I even acknowledged it to myself, but I'm sure if I'd been willing to pursue it, I could have turned it into an opportunity. I find my default, without thinking, is to back off and shut it down.
> 
> For example, someone's wife at a party starts to diss her husband to you and share too much about their relationship. It's an invitation, albeit subtle. The right thing to do is change the subject or move on to another conversation. The opportunist would see it as an invitation to egg her on and get in with that woman.
> 
> Maybe that's just a sign of my moral compass.


I wonder what the ratio is for #1 vs. #2. I bet it is rather high. Plus most get in deep before they realize they are in trouble.


----------



## Browncoat

Dina said:


> My words exactly.
> Something about this whole thread is off.
> 
> When I was in the army, guys were flirting with me. I didn't notice it until it became blunter and blunter.
> Eventually some guy who had always tried talking to me said very clearly: "Please do a night shift with me at one point in time."
> I said: "Uh, what?"
> And he said: "Stay on the base. Overnight. Yes?"
> And I still didn't get it. I thought years later, maybe he was actually coming on to me. I am still not sure.
> 
> Opportunity is a funny thing. You only consider it a problem if you know you might be willing to cave in. Which is what I suspect Borwncoat is saying.
> 
> "Why does no woman ever come on to me in that way?" Because you're damn lucky, Browncoat. You would not handle it well, I think.


I think you are misunderstanding where I am coming from, though you are certainly entitled to your opinions of me.

For me, it would take a lot more than a pretty woman inviting me to her room to make me want to consider adultery even in my weakest of moments.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lionelhutz said:


> Not true in my experience at least.
> 
> Is it simply inconceivable to you that there are women who intentionally try to pick up or flirt with married men?
> 
> Being invited out the drinks by a coworker after already working late is an opportunity. Consistently having conversations turned towards the personal notwithstanding consistent attempts to put it back on the professional is likely an opportunity.
> 
> Sometimes you don't have to looking to be looking at ads to have a sales rep show up at the door.


Offering of a room key is overt to me. Also the bantor of "no one will know". The check for being discrete. I have said, I will know.

I get the "putting out the vibe" for both genders. This makes me think of MEMs thread where he suggests that a wife should under certain circumstances shut the predator down. That it is not totally about a woman's vibe but her reaction to being hit on.

Soooooo, while for sure women can walk into a bar and decide she will have sex tonight where the average guy cannot I think it works both ways in that a husband should shut down being hit on as well. It does happen. Perhaps a hundred to one. But we keep hearing how often women are hit on anywhere they go.


----------



## AFEH

Dina said:


> *So you agree with me that all men cheat?*
> It was in the post where you said you haven't been with another woman in 40 years. I don't know where it is. Something about "I have been with the same woman in 40 years", was probably about dating again


For me that’s just a really stupid proposition. It’s crass, dense. Who on earth can say that out of the billions of married men on the planet, they all cheat!


I did in fact say nearly 40 years. Which given the number of actual years is the same as more than 35 years! It’s just a different way of expressing it.


Be very careful who you call a liar. For me you have blown every last ounce of integrity you had.


----------



## CandieGirl

AFEH said:


> Ha! I’m in my sixties but have good memories of years gone by when I look back.
> 
> 
> But I’ve been immensely tempted. With some women there’s like a powerfully magnetic attraction going on. It’s when the pheromones are firing away seemingly all by themselves. It’s even happened in front of my wife and I’ve had to snap myself out of it when I’ve realised what’s going on. The same things have happened to my wife. She was immensely cute and even in her 50s attracted men in their 30s. I’ve seen her behaving at times like an in love teenager.
> 
> These things happen. It is what we do with them, not the fact that they happen, that counts.


Don't take this wrong, but you sound like a bit like me...an attetion-wh*re...! I loved all the male attention through my earlier days, but I now get my attention by way of silly and outrageous behaviour, not by turning men's heads. Looks will fade...but a happy and fun attitude I can have my whole life, without entering into Mutton-Dressed-as-Lamb territory...:rofl:


----------



## Trickster

Dina said:


> Reread, buddy.
> Your energy is really focused on a lot of other women.
> Youve posted that "20 year old followed me around" story about 10 times now. I get it. I just think you're really enjoying it.
> 
> And "no EA but close?" But you would never cheat? Just *facepalm. You're already there, holmes.


You may be right. I am focused on other women. Maybe I see them flirting with me because flirt too. 

Maybe I AM "fishing" Just look at my user name... ALREADY GONE. 

I do like the attention. For many many years it was alway there and I never saw it. I was too shy and to a big degree, I still am. Unless a woman approaches me first I usually keep quiet.

Even way back in my single days, the women I dated were aggressive and approached me. I always though I was nerdy.

SOOO, If A very aggressive woman approached me and I had some free time????Your guess may be better than mine.


----------



## Entropy3000

Dina said:


> Not most. Just you. :smthumbup:


No I see this this all the time. We are just friends. Work, neighbors, other couples and so on.

I think this is the prevalent situation. Which is bothersome to me because folks for the most part do not want to believe. Understandably they are more comfortable if this is a blantant gee I think I will go out and cheat decision. I agree that these things can progress to that ... often. But it is not how they usally start. No one wants to consider that people develop feelings for others. Inappropriate and as wrong as that is. Not defending it by any means. I just think this is the majority. 

I could be wrong. This is always in scope as implausible as that can be.


----------



## Po12345

Not all men are "cheats", that is a really ridiculous assertion. My marriage is my rock, my foundation, despite having it somewhat shaken in the last year, I never thought about infidelity, in fact, it inspired me to make things even better in the marriage and in some ways I love my wife more than I ever have before. 

If you are saying "All men are cheats" and you refuse to change your opinion, you are ignorant. I have every right to say that, because as a non cheating MAN, I prove that to be wrong.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

CandieGirl said:


> I don't know, we all get hit on in life...but not every situation is an opportunity. Perception is key, too.


I guess this just depends on your definition of opportunity. To me, getting hit on is an opportunity to explore, though not a guarantee that cheating will happen. Other situations may be more likely to result in cheating, but there are enough posters here that mention every day contacts that resulted in EAs that I think those are opportunities.

I also disagree that getting hit on means that a person put out a vibe or was at fault. Certainly that is often the case, but not always.


----------



## Racer

Oh lol... got as far as the first page, but loved whomever noticed that men always think they are more ‘successful’ than they really are. Add this to the ‘does your wife ever initiate sex’ thread, and you can maybe understand why some of us married men believe we’ve had multiple opportunities... 

In other words, if my wife touching my shoulder = a pass. A look from another woman = opportunity.... You trained us, deal with it


----------



## AFEH

CandieGirl said:


> Don't take this wrong, but you sound like a bit like me...an attetion-wh*re...! I loved all the male attention through my earlier days, but I now get my attention by way of silly and outrageous behaviour, not by turning men's heads. Looks will fade...but a happy and fun attitude I can have my whole life, without entering into Mutton-Dressed-as-Lamb territory...:rofl:


Mutton dressed as lamb? Attention seeker? No not me. No need to go there if you look after yourself. I know some very attractive women in their 50s and 60s but the vast majority really don’t take care of themselves that well. I’m way too laid back to be an attention seeker. But that seems to bring the women on more than anything else. I just mind my own business and still they can’t leave me alone. Mine’s an active, outdoor lifestyle, good healthy food and good friends. Nice house, fabulous location by the beach, unearned income, probably one of the best phases of my life and I still attract women! But right now I’m just not interested and really don’t care if it never happens again.


----------



## Lionelhutz

norajane said:


> I just don't believe there are lots of men running around talking specifically about "opportunities to cheat" unless they SEE them AS opportunities rather than an unwanted occurrence. Just using the word Opportunity implies they see it as a positive.


Perhaps we only differ over semantics if you understand it as a matter of bragging or the word "opportunity" as necessarily welcomed rather then merely an "option."

In either case, I believe that the large majority of people, male or female, would feel something positive about the fact that another person found something about you attractive no matter how uninterested you are in pursuing it. This assumes the attraction was not communicated in a creepy or overly persistent manner. 

Does that necessarily mean I am looking to cheat or that I am necessarily blameworthy?

I trust you are not saying that if you were propositioned while married is it your fault because you MUST have invited it.


----------



## CandieGirl

AFEH said:


> Mutton dressed as lamb? Attention seeker? No not me. No need to go there if you look after yourself. I know some very attractive women in their 50s and 60s but the vast majority really don’t take care of themselves that well. I’m way too laid back to be an attention seeker. But that seems to bring the women on more than anything else. I just mind my own business and still they can’t leave me alone. Mine’s an active, outdoor lifestyle, good healthy food and good friends. Nice house, fabulous location by the beach, unearned income, probably one of the best phases of my life and I still attract women! But right now I’m just not interested and really don’t care if it never happens again.


Yes, mutton dressed as lamb. Saw the perfect example just last weekend. Tight little body, perfect clothes, long perfect blond hair; then you see the face of a woman who was easily pushing 60. All the makeup and dark glasses in the world can't hide that...She'd have been much more attractive if she dressed her age, and not been trying to look 25. She looked ridiculous, really. 

Your previous posts don't exactly indicate that you don't care about attracting women; you seem to love the fact that they throw themselves at you, even in your 60's. Enjoy and best of health and wealth to you (and Mrs. AFEH???) in the future.


----------



## CandieGirl

Lionelhutz said:


> Perhaps we only differ over semantics if you understand it as a matter of bragging or the word "opportunity" as necessarily welcomed rather then merely an "option."
> 
> In either case, I believe that the large majority of people, male or female, would feel something positive about the fact that another person found something about you attractive no matter how uninterested you are in pursuing it. This assumes the attraction was not communicated in a creepy or overly persistent manner.
> 
> Does that necessarily mean I am looking to cheat or that I am necessarily blameworthy?
> 
> I trust you are not saying that if you were propositioned while married is it your fault because you MUST have invited it.


Sounds good; I just tire of reading full-of-yourself posts that indicate "I could have cheated many times but didn't, so many opportunities"...the simple fact that it's even being described that way is enough to make me laugh.

'Full of yourself' meaning in general, not directed at you LH...


----------



## MominMayberry

CandieGirl said:


> Sounds good; I just tire of reading full-of-yourself posts that indicate "I could have cheated many times but didn't, so many opportunities"...the simple fact that it's even being described that way is enough to make me laugh.
> 
> 'Full of yourself' meaning in general, not directed at you LH...


I like the way you said this. When I hear this also it makes me think that many think they are doing some favor not cheating that it is such a burden to be tied to a person when so many others are out there. I heard my husband talking with a friend about his attractive women workers and he said some thing similar. That night I told him that this hurt me and he didnt know why. I said that what if I were to brag to my friends about all the good looking men I know and the only thing stopping me was the obligation of marriage not that I didnt want to? He under stood what I was saying.


----------



## chillymorn

If your a good looking confident man women who want to cheat on their husband for whatever reason will let you know!

thats my story and I'm sticking to it. there have been many times I have been this situation. and I haven't cheated ever!

Damn right I proud of myself for taking the high road even when my wife was neglecting me sexually.


----------



## livnlearn

chillymorn said:


> If your a good looking confident man women who want to cheat on their husband for whatever reason will let you know!
> 
> thats my story and I'm sticking to it. there have been many times I have been this situation. and I haven't cheated ever!
> 
> Damn right I proud of myself for taking the high road even when my wife was neglecting me sexually.


It's quite possible that there have been times throughout your marriage that you neglected your wife emotionally and she chose to not get caught up in an EA, which could have likely led to a PA. 

I feel like there is an unspoken sentiment among some men around here which is that it is so much harder for them to remain faithful and that we should be bowing down at their feet and kissing the ground that they walk on for doing so. It's BS.


----------



## frustr8dhubby

No, I think many of you are taking too narrow of a view of it or somehow internalizing it.

The reality (for me at least) is likely that I won't get any more if my wife and I did go our separate ways. Probably less because I am not some "chick magnet". However, at least the possibility is there of finding someone that actually does desire me...

To your point, I would say it works the other way too. If a woman is feeling neglected she probably could easily get opportunities as well. From a purely physical affair standpoint it is even easier for a woman..


----------



## Conrad

Frustr8ted,

Women can have sex 365 days/year.

It's easy for them.


----------



## Conrad

livnlearn said:


> It's quite possible that there have been times throughout your marriage that you neglected your wife emotionally and she chose to not get caught up in an EA, which could have likely led to a PA.
> 
> I feel like there is an unspoken sentiment among some men around here which is that it is so much harder for them to remain faithful and that we should be bowing down at their feet and kissing the ground that they walk on for doing so. It's BS.


Wow.

Have you always been this angry?


----------



## Kobo

Mavash. said:


> My friend told me there is this code, this look that men give when they are open to an affair. They seek women out to see if that look is returned. It's almost a secret language that is unnoticable to those of us in committed happy marriages.
> 
> I didn't believe her so I began to be more aware and to my shock she's right. I saw it. This married man did it to ME.
> 
> My husband works very long unpredicatable hours and I'm a homemaker. Plenty of opportunities for either of us to cheat. I've had friends that cheated and it doesn't take as much time as you think it would. Had one female friend meet up with a guy once a week for sex. What did that take? An hour....at the most? For me that's a trip to Wal-mart. LOL



Wait, the married men met up without me and created the "infidelity" look? I'm calling an emergency meeting of the Men's Clubhouse to rectify this injustice.


----------



## Amplexor

livnlearn said:


> I feel like there is an unspoken sentiment among some men around here which is that it is so much harder for them to remain faithful and that we should be bowing down at their feet and kissing the ground that they walk on for doing so. It's BS.


Thanks for including the "some" in your statement but I also feel some of it is a backlash from "some" women who think that men are mindless sex maniac zombies that would **** a mailbox if it had boobs on it. Just from the male perspective.

Just for the record, I've never cheated on my wife in our 25+ years married even during a two year period where she refused any sexual activity. Not looking for anyone to worship at my feet, just respect the fact that we don't all make decisions with our ****s.


----------



## CandieGirl

livnlearn said:


> I feel like there is an unspoken sentiment among some men around here which is that it is so much harder for them to remain faithful and that we should be bowing down at their feet and kissing the ground that they walk on for doing so. It's BS.


Yes, those same men who are batting them off with sticks in bars...you know, when the 5 hot single women come up to the married man, begging him back to their hotel room...

:rofl:

10 additional points to you for saying 'some' men. You mustn't forget the 'some'. Lest we generalize...


----------



## Kobo

CandieGirl said:


> Yes, those same men who are batting them off with sticks in bars...you know, when the 5 hot single women come up to the married man, begging him back to their hotel room...
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> 10 additional points to you for saying 'some' men. You mustn't forget the 'some'. Lest we generalize...


So you make up a story, apply it to a group of people, and laugh at it. Some may call that crazy. 

***Break for PSA***

Listen fellas, don't stick your stuff in crazy

***End of PSA***



The opportunities to cheat are the same as the oppurtinity to have sex while you're single. Women that want to pursue something further let you know in the same ways. The eyes, touching when they talk to you, etc. Don't really know how this turns into a 10 page discussion.


----------



## Entropy3000

So the assertion seems to be that ALL men will cheat at any opportunity. What a disrespectful thing for anyone to even infer about anyones character. UFB.

So then some of us come back and honestly say, that we have had opportunities to cheat and have chosen not to.

Well this does not go over well because it differs with point number one. These men must be lying because if they truly had opportunity they would never turn it down.

So are we to infer that it is felt that the average husband never gets an opportunity to cheat unless they are out at the clubs looking for wives out for attention? or whatever scenario floats your boat?

So we then lower our view of men in general as having low character even when they lead monogamous lives. This is incredibly disrespectful, condescending and sexist. You loyal husbands are not really loyal. You just are not valued by other women as worthy sexual partners. I am not sure what the message is supposed to be here. Maybe that married men should just worship their wives and that their wives are the only one who would ever desire them. 

Does anyone challenge that an average woman can cheat anytime she wants? I keep hearing that women are hit on continuously by men everywhere. Venue does not matter. But an avergae woman can dress herself up. Grab her wingwoman. Go to any decent sized establishment that serves booze and hookup with one of any nimber of men if she wished. Now she can increase her odds by going to a club. Is this wrong?

Are we saying that women are never the agressor? Huh? Seriously? If you believe that you may need to get out more. If anything for many women a married man is the target for a number of reasons. Often they are looking for someone who can be discrete. There is some value in preselection. But frankly whatever is in their minds they have their way of pursuing men. One common way is a look with room key in hand offering it. I am not talking subtle here. The key is being offerred. Or just asking one if they would like to come back to their room. Maybe I am misunderstanding this because after all I am just a stupid man with no clue. But I think some women like the "stupid" quality in a man ( Body Heat reference ).

I have never been particularly agressive towards women. I have always been a high drive person however. Probably something in my upbringing. Some women like agressive men for sure. But I have found that many women will respond to a confident man having other traits she desires cause for them to be agressive in their pursuit of a man. PUA rhetoric agrees with the man showing indifference to a woman to be attractive to some women. My experience would validate this.


----------



## MominMayberry

CandieGirl said:


> Yes, those same men who are batting them off with sticks in bars...you know, when the 5 hot single women come up to the married man, begging him back to their hotel room...
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> 10 additional points to you for saying 'some' men. You mustn't forget the 'some'. Lest we generalize...


This made me laugh. I had a picture of those paper animals hung from trees with candy in them that you hit with sticks.


----------



## CandieGirl

Some. Some... SOME!!! I said Some! I added MY some!!!

FWIW, I wasn't the one who made up the line about the 5 hot women begging to be taken back to a hotel room...somebody else gets the credit for that gem, although I do believe a certain amount of humour and sarcasm were in play at the time...


----------



## CandieGirl

Kobo said:


> So you make up a story, apply it to a group of people, and laugh at it. Some may call that crazy.
> 
> ***Break for PSA***
> 
> Listen fellas, don't stick your stuff in crazy
> 
> ***End of PSA***
> 
> .


Stop, stop, you're killing me here...! :rofl:

:lol::lol::rofl::rofl:


----------



## CandieGirl

MominMayberry said:


> This made me laugh. I had a picture of those paper animals hung from trees with candy in them that you hit with sticks.


This whole post has made ME laugh...For the record, I don't think that ALL men cheat or that ALL women let themselves go after marriage, but this PC/sensitivity crap is getting a little old. The people on this board should be mature enough to use the common sense that Allah gave them, and realize that when one says "Why do men....?" or "Must you women always....?" that it really doesn't mean ALL the *insert sex/race/species here*...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

AFEH said:


> I’ve had mate’s wives all over me on dance floors with their tongue down my throat such that they’ve had to drag them off!





AFEH said:


> Mutton dressed as lamb? Attention seeker? No not me. No need to go there if you look after yourself. I know some very attractive women in their 50s and 60s but the vast majority really don’t take care of themselves that well. I’m way too laid back to be an attention seeker. But that seems to bring the women on more than anything else. I just mind my own business and still they can’t leave me alone. Mine’s an active, outdoor lifestyle, good healthy food and good friends. Nice house, fabulous location by the beach, unearned income, probably one of the best phases of my life and I still attract women! But right now I’m just not interested and really don’t care if it never happens again.


You know your posts are really amusing the crap out of me over here..... you are SO the typical Alpha male....you are so confident....so in demand...AND YOU KNOW IT! It even annoys you somehow... so used to the females panting over you...you think you are better than all those stupid chicks trailing you....you somehow enjoy throwing vibes out that you don't give a hoot about them....blowing steam at all the panters. 

God, I never liked your type. I am not insulting you AFEH.. .you know I like you. I am just :rofl: over here. 

Give me the SHY humble man who gets all excited when a woman approaches him, big  on his face, gets a little choked up , might even mumble, maybe even spill his drink in all the excitement, even look over his shoulder thinking ...."Who me, you are talking to me". Ha ha I would never give the time of day to a guy who ignored me. 

I can't understand, for the life of me, why women do this. I wouldn't even approach a guy like that if I was single. 

I'll never "get it". Most of the sexy women are just like you....and guys falling at their feet. Will we ever learn.


Hey Frustr8dhubby....If I was single, you'd be my type. You got those love languages I like.


----------



## Entropy3000

CandieGirl said:


> Yes, those same men who are batting them off with sticks in bars...you know, when the 5 hot single women come up to the married man, begging him back to their hotel room...
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> 10 additional points to you for saying 'some' men. You mustn't forget the 'some'. Lest we generalize...


I have had this dream. Don't ruin it. It is special.

I get you having fun with this but I saw no reference to anyone suggesting this scenario.

So you see no scenario where a husband is say on a business trip. There is a mix of colleagues if you will socializing at a happy hour, then maybe dinner and then maybe having some after dinner drinks. Maybe they work together but maybe they are from companies that have a relationship one way or another. If they do not know each other well they know of each other. The women are typically a bit more independent than most. Make very good money in their own right. They may or may not be married.

The men are not professional athletes for sure but in their field they are very confident and capable. Alphas in thier area. AMOGs perhaps. They have a level of status very high in their work community. Probably well known in limited circles. Not the CEO but someone the CEO depends on for options. They make money and have a certain amount of power in their field. If they were single they would also draw interest from women of substance.

I agree that in general women are not crazy about men with high IQs. However, it is said that some women are interested in men with status that may be a result of higher than average intelligence. My point being that there does exist a segment of professional women who do find certain men attractive and are willing under the right circumstances to act on this. It happens. Over many years these situations do arise. A good husband shuts them down. No medal of honor deserved.

This is just one environment where a husband could be challenged. I think it is only one. Other husbands have their own situations. I leave it to them to define.

Now please continue having fun with this and deny it exists.  Only women are continually hit upon. Only women have character to shut predators down. Husbands are never hit on.

Where is the thread that covers the opportunites that wives have to cheat? I suspect that will be under much broader circumstnaces and will challenge our concept of entropy itself.

*** DISCLAIMER ***

Yes PUA lingo is silly. But it is an easy way to convey a particular concept related to the mating dance that can go on. YMMV.


----------



## Entropy3000

SimplyAmorous said:


> You know your posts are really amusing the crap out of me over here..... you are SO the typical Alpha male....you are so confident....so in demand...AND YOU KNOW IT! It even annoys you somehow... so used to the females panting over you...you think you are better than all those stupid chicks trailing you....you somehow enjoy throwing vibes out that you don't give a hoot about them....blowing steam at all the panters.
> 
> God, I never liked your type. I am not insulting you AFEH.. .you know I like you. I am just :rofl: over here.
> 
> Give me the SHY humble man who gets all excited when a woman approaches him, big  on his face, gets a little choked up , might even mumble, maybe even spill his drink in all the excitement, even look over his shoulder thinking ...."Who me, you are talking to me". Ha ha I would never give the time of day to a guy who ignored me.
> 
> I can't understand, for the life of me, why women do this. I wouldn't even approach a guy like that if I was single.
> 
> I'll never "get it". Most of the sexy women are just like you....and guys falling at their feet. Will we ever learn.
> 
> 
> Hey Frustr8dhubby....If I was single, you'd be my type. You got those love languages I like.


SA, you make a very good point in that attraction is not truly universal. There are some generalities that can be made but they also fall apart in any given specific instense.

I am constantly amazed at what some men find as attractive along with what some women find attractive. It is good that attractiveness is not universal.


----------



## Conrad

Entropy3000 said:


> SA, you make a very good point in that attraction is not truly universal. There are some generalities that can be made but they also fall apart in any given specific instense.
> 
> I am constantly amazed at what some men find as attractive along with what some women find attractive. It is good that attractiveness is not universal.


As I read this, I'm not certain I'd be attracted to Bob.

But, I'm sure he's a fine catch.


----------



## MominMayberry

Entropy3000 said:


> So the assertion seems to be that ALL men will cheat at any opportunity. What a disrespectful thing for anyone to even infer about anyones character. UFB.
> 
> So then some of us come back and honestly say, that we have had opportunities to cheat and have chosen not to.
> 
> Well this does not go over well because it differs with point number one. These men must be lying because if they truly had opportunity they would never turn it down.
> 
> So are we to infer that it is felt that the average husband never gets an opportunity to cheat unless they are out at the clubs looking for wives out for attention? or whatever scenario floats your boat?
> 
> So we then lower our view of men in general as having low character even when they lead monogamous lives. This is incredibly disrespectful, condescending and sexist. You loyal husbands are not really loyal. You just are not valued by other women as worthy sexual partners. I am not sure what the message is supposed to be here. Maybe that married men should just worship their wives and that their wives are the only one who would ever desire them.
> 
> Does anyone challenge that an average woman can cheat anytime she wants? I keep hearing that women are hit on continuously by men everywhere. Venue does not matter. But an avergae woman can dress herself up. Grab her wingwoman. Go to any decent sized establishment that serves booze and hookup with one of any nimber of men if she wished. Now she can increase her odds by going to a club. Is this wrong?
> 
> Are we saying that women are never the agressor? Huh? Seriously? If you believe that you may need to get out more. If anything for many women a married man is the target for a number of reasons. Often they are looking for someone who can be discrete. There is some value in preselection. But frankly whatever is in their minds they have their way of pursuing men. One common way is a look with room key in hand offering it. I am not talking subtle here. The key is being offerred. Or just asking one if they would like to come back to their room. Maybe I am misunderstanding this because after all I am just a stupid man with no clue. But I think some women like the "stupid" quality in a man ( Body Heat reference ).
> 
> I have never been particularly agressive towards women. I have always been a high drive person however. Probably something in my upbringing. Some women like agressive men for sure. But I have found that many women will respond to a confident man having other traits she desires cause for them to be agressive in their pursuit of a man. PUA rhetoric agrees with the man showing indifference to a woman to be attractive to some women. My experience would validate this.


I didnt see any body say all men cheat. Where did you read that? I said bragging that some one is faithful and a missed opportunity make it sound like many think they deserve a crown for not doing what they shouldnt be in the first place. Should I brag that I pay my bills taxes and never go to jail?


----------



## CandieGirl

Goldmember357 said:


> Well seeing how men generally through history approach women its safe to say most men who cheat and will have an affair go looking for the woman. In turn they are met with a woman that is okay with it or in the cases of women cheating they go looking for it. There are plenty of opportunities to cheat basically anytime you are not with your spouse you could if you truly wanted to, however a good amount of them would involve you going to LOOK FOR IT.
> 
> Escorts- cost money
> Strippers- for extra money
> Bars- with easy loose girls
> Clubs- look for easy loose girls
> Swinger sites, hook up sites- can find someone who wants to bang
> 
> ^ of course all of those involve the man to actively seek the women of course that is the case in any cheating affair case you have to consent. Other than those id say work or group things are best way's to meet women and strike up friendships which may turn into affair's. Through work you can meet flirt with same women regularly gauge which ones are okay with the married men flirting with them and than go after the ones who are open to your gestures and it can lead to more. Same goes with the gym and personal trainers. I think most men who cheat go looking for it of course i think very very few just happen to stumble upon some woman at work and than she pulls him aside begging for him. I think for men and women when they cheat they go looking for it 9/10 times. I do not believe the "i was hurt and tired and lonely and ____ showed up and i could not control myself")
> 
> I still have yet to hear of the man who went out to the bar with some buddies and than *5 hot women surround him and beg to share him in bed.* In that case it would be very very hard to turn down such a situation. But how many men does that happen to?


Sorry E3000, just had to go back and find this to prove, if only, that I was not the one who mockingly came up with this scenario...Goldmemeber can take all the credit, and as I believe I mentioned before, even he was poking fun at the unlikeliness of something like this happening.

I've been to business conferences before, and I'm aware of things that go on. All I'm saying is that it's not like on TV. 

Although 2 years ago, I got directly propositioned by one of those men (you know...some men) who had just seen his wife and daughter to their car. He was staying the night at the hotel where the conference was being held. I hardly had to hold myself back and I lost a lot of respect for someone who I never thought would turn out to be 'some men'.


----------



## CandieGirl

Mom, you're crackin me up over here....


----------



## Marielle

AFEH said:


> ...I’m way too laid back to be an attention seeker. But that seems to bring the women on more than anything else. I just mind my own business and still they can’t leave me alone. Mine’s an active, outdoor lifestyle, good healthy food and good friends. Nice house, fabulous location by the beach, unearned income, probably one of the best phases of my life and I still attract women! But right now I’m just not interested and really don’t care if it never happens again.


Sounds like a pretty nice place to be at in your sixties. Good for you. I wouldn't mind being there when I'm in my sixties.

I say, it's nice work if you can get...


----------



## AFEH

Conrad said:


> As I read this, I'm not certain I'd be attracted to Bob.
> 
> But, I'm sure he's a fine catch.


Thank goodness for that!


Besides so very good was my wife and so very long was I with her it'd be totally unfair on me to let any new woman in because she'd just never compare. It would be totally unfair on her.


----------



## Entropy3000

MominMayberry said:


> I didnt see any body say all men cheat. Where did you read that? I said bragging that some one is faithful and a missed opportunity make it sound like many think they deserve a crown for not doing what they shouldnt be in the first place. Should I brag that I pay my bills taxes and never go to jail?


Mom, I have read it. I have read a lot of stuff here. Sorry you missed this.

The topic is opportunity for cheating men. So please forgive some of us in talking about that topic. Men do have opportunites without looking for it, in much the same way that women do. I agree that women have many more opportunites whether they seek it or not. I do think there are a smaller percentage of men who are pursued no matter what at the level that many women are. I am not among them. I do not exist in those circles. I doubt that many of them are on this board. Perhaps Pitt is. Or Jeter. Or Beckham. or whoever draws a lot of female attention.

If the topic were related to paying bills then I would expect to see folks "bragging" about paying their bills. It would be in context.

My comments are from my own experience and are matter of fact that men can and mostly do avoid cheating. I do know men who pursue this. I do not like them. I think they have low character.

The topic is around opportunity to cheat is it not? It relates to cheating men. So my comments are that many men choose not to cheat.
I will have to leave it up to others to brag on their conquests.


----------



## AFEH

SimplyAmorous said:


> You know your posts are really amusing the crap out of me over here..... you are SO the typical Alpha male....you are so confident....so in demand...AND YOU KNOW IT! It even annoys you somehow... so used to the females panting over you...you think you are better than all those stupid chicks trailing you....you somehow enjoy throwing vibes out that you don't give a hoot about them....blowing steam at all the panters.
> 
> God, I never liked your type. I am not insulting you AFEH.. .you know I like you. I am just :rofl: over here.
> 
> Give me the SHY humble man who gets all excited when a woman approaches him, big  on his face, gets a little choked up , might even mumble, maybe even spill his drink in all the excitement, even look over his shoulder thinking ...."Who me, you are talking to me". Ha ha I would never give the time of day to a guy who ignored me.
> 
> I can't understand, for the life of me, why women do this. I wouldn't even approach a guy like that if I was single.
> 
> I'll never "get it". Most of the sexy women are just like you....and guys falling at their feet. Will we ever learn.
> 
> 
> Hey Frustr8dhubby....If I was single, you'd be my type. You got those love languages I like.


It’s just my world, that’s all it is.

I’m very much an Aries in that I like to choose my mate and I like to court her. If a woman chooses and chases me I find it a very big turn off. I think in that I’m quite strange. I like a challenge.

And just like an Aries I’ll provide massive amounts of love, affection, romance, homes, pay all the bills, holidays, cars etc. etc. for the woman I chose as my mate. I had the energy and stamina plus the motivation to do that for over four decades. And my wife was more than good enough to keep a man like me by her side for all that time.

Aries men like me mate for life. We really do. And we do whatever it takes to be of exceptional value to the woman we chose to mate with. We nurse them when they’re ill, help them when they’ve lost a loved one and help them with their mourning. It’s why we are so exceptionally difficult to leave even in the seriously bad times, because we provide so very much!


There are reasons why men like me feel so very hurt and angry when we have been betrayed by the woman we chose as our mate for life and provided so very much for.


Sometimes SA you get me totally and utterly wrong!


----------



## Entropy3000

CandieGirl said:


> Sorry E3000, just had to go back and find this to prove, if only, that I was not the one who mockingly came up with this scenario...Goldmemeber can take all the credit, and as I believe I mentioned before, even he was poking fun at the unlikeliness of something like this happening.
> 
> *I've been to business conferences before, and I'm aware of things that go on. All I'm saying is that it's not like on TV. *
> 
> Although 2 years ago, I got directly propositioned by one of those men (you know...some men) who had just seen his wife and daughter to their car. He was staying the night at the hotel where the conference was being held. I hardly had to hold myself back and I lost a lot of respect for someone who I never thought would turn out to be 'some men'.


Gotcha. Yes not like TV.

Your example is what I am talking about. You get it.


----------



## MominMayberry

AFEH said:


> It’s just my world, that’s all it is.
> 
> I’m very much an Aries in that I like to choose my mate and I like to court her. If a woman chooses and chases me I find it a very big turn off. I think in that I’m quite strange. I like a challenge.
> 
> And just like an Aries I’ll provide massive amounts of love, affection, romance, homes, pay all the bills, holidays, cars etc. etc. for the woman I chose as my mate. I had the energy and stamina plus the motivation to do that for over four decades. And my wife was more than good enough to keep a man like me by her side for all that time.
> 
> Aries men like me mate for life. We really do. And we do whatever it takes to be of exceptional value to the woman we chose to mate with. We nurse them when they’re ill, help them when they’ve lost a loved one and help them with their mourning. It’s why we are so exceptionally difficult to leave even in the seriously bad times, because we provide so very much!
> 
> 
> There are reasons why men like me feel so very hurt and angry when we have been betrayed by the woman we chose as our mate for life and provided so very much for.
> 
> 
> Sometimes SA you get me totally and utterly wrong!


You cheated in your marriage. Had your friends wives tongues in your mouth on a dance floor in front of husbands your friends, women beating down your door and say you were power less then say your wife betrayed you? You sound like a cad. You met a good woman who put up with your bawdy behavior.


----------



## AFEH

MominMayberry said:


> You cheated in your marriage. Had your friends wives tongues in your mouth on a dance floor in front of husbands your friends, women beating down your door and say you were power less then say your wife betrayed you? You sound like a cad. You met a good woman who put up with your bawdy behavior.


You're well deluded.


----------



## MominMayberry

Entropy3000 said:


> Mom, I have read it. I have read a lot of stuff here. Sorry you missed this.
> 
> The topic is opportunity for cheating men. So please forgive some of us in talking about that topic. Men do have opportunites without looking for it, in much the same way that women do. I agree that women have many more opportunites whether they seek it or not. I do think there are a smaller percentage of men who are pursued no matter what at the level that many women are. I am not among them. I do not exist in those circles. I doubt that many of them are on this board. Perhaps Pitt is. Or Jeter. Or Beckham. or whoever draws a lot of female attention.
> 
> If the topic were related to paying bills then I would expect to see folks "bragging" about paying their bills. It would be in context.
> 
> My comments are from my own experience and are matter of fact that men can and mostly do avoid cheating. I do know men who pursue this. I do not like them. I think they have low character.
> 
> The topic is around opportunity to cheat is it not? It relates to cheating men. So my comments are that many men choose not to cheat.
> I will have to leave it up to others to brag on their conquests.


I dont think most men cheat. I dont think that at all. I was saying that I get upset when I see posts I dont cheat but I could and that those people think they should get a metal for not doing it. My post about bills and jail was that no body gets a metal for taking care of that same as no body should feel special because they dont cheat. I dont come out well as English is not my first language. Do you under stand me?


----------



## Browncoat

MominMayberry said:


> I dont think most men cheat. I dont think that at all. I was saying that I get upset when I see posts I dont cheat but I could and that those people think they should get a metal for not doing it. My post about bills and jail was that no body gets a metal for taking care of that same as no body should feel special because they dont cheat. I dont come out well as English is not my first language. Do you under stand me?


Your English is fine. I don't think I should get a medal for refraining from doing what I promised to my wife when I said "I do". I do think that every man is capable of infidelity. We read it in the papers about preachers committing adultery, or that whole weird Tiger Woods thing (and from the outside you'd think he'd be a happy man).

Should those who stay faithful be rewarded... well in a way yes: with an intact marriage.  I know I feel rewarded!


----------



## Entropy3000

MominMayberry said:


> I dont think most men cheat. I dont think that at all. I was saying that I get upset when I see posts I dont cheat but I could and that those people think they should get a metal for not doing it. My post about bills and jail was that no body gets a metal for taking care of that same as no body should feel special because they dont cheat. I dont come out well as English is not my first language. Do you under stand me?


Then I just wish to make it clear that in no way do I feel we husbands need a medal for not cheating. Certainly not I. I cherish my wife. I have not been perfect. 

Cheating is an incredibly selfish and hurtful thing for anyone to do. I feel most married men are not cheaters. I hope I am right about that.

In looking for common ground, I think we both can agree that my wife deserves a medal for putting up with me at all.


----------



## MominMayberry

Entropy3000 said:


> Then I just wish to make it clear that in no way do I feel we husbands need a medal for not cheating. Certainly not I. I cherish my wife. I have not been perfect.
> 
> Cheating is an incredibly selfish and hurtful thing for anyone to do. I feel most married men are not cheaters. I hope I am right about that.
> 
> In looking for common ground, I think we both can agree that my wife deserves a medal for putting up with me at all.


I think men are good. I read here and get angry with post like this about how nobel a man is for not cheating. I said in a post that I know 20 married men and only 1 cheated.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

AFEH said:


> It’s just my world, that’s all it is.
> 
> I’m very much an Aries in that I like to choose my mate and I like to court her. If a woman chooses and chases me I find it a very big turn off. I think in that I’m quite strange. I like a challenge.
> 
> And just like an Aries I’ll provide massive amounts of love, affection, romance, homes, pay all the bills, holidays, cars etc. etc. for the woman I chose as my mate. I had the energy and stamina plus the motivation to do that for over four decades. And my wife was more than good enough to keep a man like me by her side for all that time.
> 
> Aries men like me mate for life. We really do. And we do whatever it takes to be of exceptional value to the woman we chose to mate with. We nurse them when they’re ill, help them when they’ve lost a loved one and help them with their mourning. It’s why we are so exceptionally difficult to leave even in the seriously bad times, because we provide so very much!
> 
> 
> There are reasons why men like me feel so very hurt and angry when we have been betrayed by the woman we chose as our mate for life and provided so very much for.
> 
> 
> Sometimes SA you get me totally and utterly wrong!


Honestly..... I was not putting you down... I was just laughing at the things you said, the way you expressed some of it. I do have a sense of humor (sometimes). 

I believe I "get you" ....not downing you a bit, I know you are a very very intense man who was on fire for one woman, whose heart has bled over what happened, you are very heartful and also very sentimental .... and I also understand you love the whole "challenge" thing. You are surely NOT strange.... for an assertive confident male, you are all NORMAL as NORMAL can be. A confident male that is heads over heels in love -that is. 

I just wanted to post that I accually find it very SAD to see women hanging all over HOT guys when they have no inkling of a chance, I feel bad for them somehow... and I know the guys think they are pathetic anyways ...which is what I was getting from your post. Those women would be better off looking towards the men who ....would care...who would give them a real chance. 



> *MominMayberry said*: You cheated in your marriage. Had your friends wives tongues in your mouth on a dance floor in front of husbands your friends, women beating down your door and say you were power less then say your wife betrayed you? You sound like a cad. You met a good woman who put up with your bawdy behavior


 I don't know about the cheating part... if he did, ya know, none of us are perfect and I would hope people here would not sugar coat their past mistakes anyway. I wouldn't judge. I am sure he learned from it ...if he did do such a thing. 

I am near positive the "tongues in the mouth" is a grave exaggeration... I would hope , it is kinda why I was laughing so much & had to respond. 

I also know AFEH doesn't care for when a woman tries to defend him either..as he wants to do that himself. I might get backlash for this. 

I terribly Respect you AFEH, even if I am the exact opposite of the type of lady you would ever go after.... I do so appreciate your intelligence & deep contributions to this forum. Always !


----------



## chillymorn

MominMayberry said:


> I dont think most men cheat. I dont think that at all. I was saying that I get upset when I see posts I dont cheat but I could and that those people think they should get a metal for not doing it. My post about bills and jail was that no body gets a metal for taking care of that same as no body should feel special because they dont cheat. I dont come out well as English is not my first language. Do you under stand me?


if a wife dosn't hold her end of the marriage ie.. sex then yes I do feel the husband who kept his end not cheating dose deserve something and he has it its called good morals.

if the women feels emotional neglect then she should speek up my wife has never said I neglected her in that way.

if the women did speak up and no effort or little effort was put into meeting her needs well thats a different story.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

chillymorn said:


> if a wife dosn't hold her end of the marriage ie.. sex then yes I do feel the husband who kept his end not cheating dose deserve something and he has it its called good morals.
> 
> if the women feels emotional neglect then she should speek up my wife has never said I neglected her in that way.
> 
> if the women did speak up and no effort or little effort was put into meeting her needs well thats a different story.


If we are talking near sexless marraiges, where the wife is a cold rejector.... Personally I think the husband is either a Saint for staying & remaining faithful to her...just shows how much he loves his kids over himself ....or a fool. And I don't like to call these men fools ...I only mean in the sense that they continue lavishing so much love on a woman who doesnt seem to care about their needs. 

Some of them surely deseve medals in my book.


----------



## AFEH

All’s ok SimplyA. Just that sometimes I feel a strong need to put the record straight. You know, write a lot because as sure as heck there are some that take things in strange ways.

I’ve the perspective of a man getting towards half a century with the same woman and all the experiences that brings with it. It annoys me when someone takes things out of context (not you) and pre judges me. For example with affairs. Sure I had an affair early on in my marriage. But then so did my wife. Towards the end she got very close to a supposed mate of mine.

I guess some marriages are all fairytales and plain sailing without any storms in them at all. My wasn’t. But the good times far outweighed the bad and I don’t reckon anyone can ask for more than that.

Many thanks for standing the ground for me. It is really appreciated.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

AFEH said:


> It annoys me when someone takes things out of context (not you) and pre judges me.


I feel the same, on differnt issues of course...most especially morality and how I raise my kids. Possibly how I express myself here, or whatever.. but I HATE / DESPISE to be misunderstood (that's why my posts are so darn long winded). So in this... I truly "get you"... 

Nice to hear I wasn't a "wet nurse " this time around ... ha ha

I :rofl: often when I see these exchanges with you adding this >>> :sleeping: A little conflict with never bother someone like me -so long as people keep talking , it's all very very gooooood !


----------



## Goldmember357

SimplyAmorous said:


> I feel when a good person cheats, and Yes.... I feel GOOD People can fall into something (many many say ...Oh it can never happen to me..then when it does, they eat those words).....it is born out of lonliness, a cold rejecting spouse at home, where they are dying inside....they feel unloved, worthless even, another is friendly to them, someone shows they care....we all have emotions and a sex drive... one thing does lead to another.... we are only human....
> 
> When you find yourself in the desert in your own home....months , years at a time...water starts looking pretty damn good outside your doors. But yeah, better to leave those spouses! I am not the cheater type.. but I do not feel I am above falling into something if my husband made me feel like dirt everyday, rejected me continously ,If I was bordering depression over feeling I was worthless... No, that temptation might be too damn much to bare. But I know me.. I would cause so much hell over my unhappiness, raising the roof off of the house...he'd know exactly where I was heading. One thing I am .... is honest.
> 
> I feel this is an excellent book, an excellent author, though many will be insulted by it's title:
> 
> When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationships : Mira Kirshenbaum: Books


Those cases are rare i still consider that bad. The only times i do not is if someone is truly forced into a marriage or has no rights. Some people in other countries have no rights in marriage its women almost always its not uncommon for some to run away from unhappy marriage they cant file for divorce so technically they are cheating but that is justified if you are a prisoner. 

In the US you can divorce however i have no idea what it would feel like to be abused, treated like dirt, and harassed and rejected and to feel alone in a marriage. That must feel awful


----------



## Jeff/BC

AFEH said:


> I’ve the perspective of a man getting towards half a century with the same woman and all the experiences that brings with it.


Well sure... but let's not let actual real history interfere with a good bit of self-righteous indignation, OK? Look at it this way, you're providing some good sport for the self-righteous. Think of it as a good deed. For myself, I just look at my actual life and remember that it's easy to be gracious from the winner's podium.


----------



## Halien

livnlearn said:


> I feel like there is an unspoken sentiment among some men around here which is that it is so much harder for them to remain faithful and that we should be bowing down at their feet and kissing the ground that they walk on for doing so. It's BS.


It might ruffle some feathers to say so, but this is not my intent when I talk about this subject.

I've seen several posts making fun of men who say they have had opportunities to cheat. I believe that you also see a pervasive bias in many marriages where a woman will view her own relationship-security very differently than what she sees in her husband, especially in the situations where one partner is left with unmet sexual needs. 

In some replies, I think unintentional gender bias leads them to interpret the man's comment about opportunities to cheat in a way that is completely different than what he was intending. If a man makes a comment on this site about such opportunities, and how it is a deliberate attempt to be faithful, a woman might interpret this as him suggesting that his wife should pat his back for being faithful, while a man understands what he is trying to say. Sure, it sounds comical if you have some default assumptions about men. But why can't a guy say that he is passionate about staying faithful to his wife? Really, are all men so inherently unnattractive that these comments have to be interpreted in a way that he may not intend? He recognizes that there are opportunities out there, but he chooses her every day of his life. To him, it can be meant as a way to let the community here know that he doesn't stay faithful just because he is too lazy to cheat, but that fidelity is an active state of mind in his life. But lets be real ... the default reaction to this comment about "opportunity" would not be the same if the person posting was a woman.

To me, the saddest part of many of the relationships where it begins to settle into a virtually sexless relationship, not at all like it was before marriage, is what it says about how the spouse views the one with unmet needs. Its not as simplistic as calling the guy a Nice Guy. To put it simply, we work to bring happiness to those we really value, and we even push the edge of our comfort zone if we perceive even a likelihood of losing them. Life isn't a fiction novel, where a happy marriage just happens. If we actively value someone, a component of that recipe is actively verifying that the bond between you and them is secure. If the spouse's built-in assumptions about your willingness to break that bond maintains that security, then why is there a need to move beyond the comfort zone? Not saying that you use threats to keep each other working. If a person really senses an inner confidence to never settle, the same confidence that they feel within themself, you're both in a situation to grow closer.


----------



## livnlearn

Halien, I agree with you on many points, and I do think that many of the men here shared their stories of "opportunity" for just the reason you stated. 

Still, it's apparent that others..."some", feel that their wife should daily be thanking her lucky stars that her man, despite being God's gift to the women of the world, is faithful to her.

as far as the "default reaction"...if a woman posted something similar to.. "women arrange parties to make opportunities for sex with me" ... I'd have the same response.

In all honesty though, I think the majority of men here are good guys and well-intentioned...


----------



## ocotillo

Halien said:


> In some replies, I think unintentional gender bias leads them to interpret the man's comment about opportunities to cheat in a way that is completely different than what he was intending.


Yes. In some ways, it's similar to the Devil's wager. The Lord asks the Devil, 

"Have you considered my servant Job? He is blameless and upright" ​
The Devil counters:

"Is it for nothing that Job is faithful? You've put a hedge about him and blessed the work of his hands."​
Similarly, one man might point out that he's been a faithful husband, but another man could counter with, "So what?" What does faithfulness in the absence of temptation really prove?"

So when a man talks about an 'opportunity' to cheat, it's entirely a hypothetical predicated on the condition - _If I had wanted to. _

It's* not *an expression of regret. What kind of a low-life regrets the *good* decisions they've made?


----------



## Halien

livnlearn said:


> Halien, I agree with you on many points, and I do think that many of the men here shared their stories of "opportunity" for just the reason you stated.
> 
> Still, it's apparent that others..."some", feel that their wife should daily be thanking her lucky stars that her man, despite being God's gift to the women of the world, is faithful to her.
> 
> as far as the "default reaction"...if a woman posted something similar to.. "women arrange parties to make opportunities for sex with me" ... I'd have the same response.
> 
> In all honesty though, I think the majority of men here are good guys and well-intentioned...


livnlearn,

Thanks for understanding the tone of what I was trying to convey. When I was referring to male vs. female response to opportunities, I was really referring to what I think are cultural assumptions we make, and not the specific examples in this thread. In general, men and women will accept that a woman will have opportunities (literal definition) for cheating, but most of these women actively work to avoid conveying intent. We see women as the pursued ones, but not so much men. I think the way this can creep into our responses here can sometimes creep into the assumptions people hold in unhappy marriages. I don't want to name names, but I'm always so impressed with one member here who saw the positive traits of her "nice guy" husband, and actively chose to treat him like the rare man of integrity he is. Not that I have the answer, but I suspect that many of us, men and women, do not really treat a person like we can theoretically lose them, and I just wonder if some part of this is due to bias that we take for granted.


----------



## livnlearn

ocotillo said:


> Yes. In some ways, it's similar to the Devil's wager. The Lord asks the Devil,
> 
> "Have you considered my servant Job? He is blameless and upright" ​
> The Devil counters:
> 
> "Is it for nothing that Job is faithful? You've put a hedge about him and blessed the work of his hands."​
> Similarly, one man might point out that he's been a faithful husband, but another man could counter with, "So what?" What does faithfulness in the absence of temptation really prove?"
> 
> So when a man talks about an 'opportunity' to cheat, it's entirely a hypothetical predicated on the condition - _If I had wanted to. _
> 
> It's* not *an expression of regret. What kind of a low-life regrets the *good* decisions they've made?


good point:iagree: ... we weren't talking about "regretting" their decision though.

wanted to add..that this "good point" was not said sarcastically...just wanted to correct if there was a misunderstanding.


----------



## livnlearn

Halien said:


> livnlearn,
> 
> Thanks for understanding the tone of what I was trying to convey. When I was referring to male vs. female response to opportunities, I was really referring to what I think are cultural assumptions we make, and not the specific examples in this thread. In general, men and women will accept that a woman will have opportunities (literal definition) for cheating, but most of these women actively work to avoid conveying intent. We see women as the pursued ones, but not so much men. I think the way this can creep into our responses here can sometimes creep into the assumptions people hold in unhappy marriages. I don't want to name names, but I'm always so impressed with one member here who saw the positive traits of her "nice guy" husband, and actively chose to treat him like the rare man of integrity he is. Not that I have the answer, but I suspect that many of us, men and women, do not really treat a person like we can theoretically lose them, and I just wonder if some part of this is due to bias that we take for granted.


you are always so well-spoken and logical that I couldn't argue if I wanted to...which I don't.  you make a good point about women (some  ) actively working to avoid conveying intent..and I see why men would want it known that they do the same. I am a relative newcomer here but have to say I'm reallllly confused how being a "nice" guy is considered a negative trait :scratchhead: . Anyway, I don't want to change topics so will try to figure it out on my own, but thanks for your responses.


----------



## CandieGirl

livnlearn said:


> Still, it's apparent that others..."some", feel that their wife should daily be thanking her lucky stars that her man, despite being God's gift to the women of the world, is faithful to her.


It's funny you should say this. When I was young, I didn't realize that I could do anything else but hope/pray/wish that my man remained faithful. Then, I thought that men held all the cards. That belief caused me a lot of grief over the years!

It's old fashioned thinking that a wife should be grateful that her man isn't out having affairs. Think of it...years ago, this was perhaps not accepted behaviour, but expected?

My great grandfather took a mistress in the early 1920's because his wife as told by her doctor that she could bear no more children. My grandfather was the product of the affair. Everybody knew about it. What was the wife to do?


----------



## ocotillo

livnlearn said:


> ... we weren't talking about "regretting" their decision though.


Nobody said it explicitly, but regret is implicit in expressions like 'missed opportunity' or opportunity as a 'positive' which are some of the things that have been said on this thread. Those qualifiers connote something 'good' that has passed you by which you didn't take advantage of.

That touches a nerve. Even for a man, 'Opportunity' can be very unpleasant and awkward and make you feel 'dirty' like you somehow asked for it or encouraged it.


----------



## tacoma

ocotillo said:


> Nobody said it explicitly, but regret is implicit in expressions like 'missed opportunity' or opportunity as a 'positive' which are some of the things that have been said on this thread. Those qualifiers connote something 'good' that has passed you by which you didn't take advantage of.
> 
> That touches a nerve. Even for a man, 'Opportunity' can be very unpleasant and awkward and make you feel 'dirty' like you somehow asked for it or encouraged it.


I cqn't speak for anyone else but my use of the word "opportunity" in this thread was quite sarcastic.
FYI In case the sarcasm was mistaken.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFEH

Jeff/BC said:


> Well sure... but let's not let actual real history interfere with a good bit of self-righteous indignation, OK? Look at it this way, you're providing some good sport for the self-righteous. Think of it as a good deed. For myself, I just look at my actual life and remember that it's easy to be gracious from the winner's podium.


Some sure have a good imagination, may be good novelists with the ability they have to create total fiction out of so little.


----------



## Jeff/BC

AFEH said:


> Some sure have a good imagination, may be good novelists with the ability they have to create total fiction out of so little.


*laughs* Here's an email in my inbox right now:

Site: Adult Friend Finder
Subject: <my username>. 1 hottie wants to meet you!

What's your impression of how that would play out in a thread here? LOL.


----------



## CandieGirl

Jeff/BC said:


> *laughs* Here's an email in my inbox right now:
> 
> Site: Adult Friend Finder
> Subject: <my username>. 1 hottie wants to meet you!
> 
> What's your impression of how that would play out in a thread here? LOL.


I dunno...was there anything in there about penis enlargement?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

CandieGirl said:


> I dunno...was there anything in there about penis enlargement?


I think that comes after a man regrows his hair and fixes his credit score.


----------



## CandieGirl

Well if that's how opportunities to cheat are defined, then I'm literally beating them off with a stick in both hands!


----------



## Tall Average Guy

CandieGirl said:


> Well if that's how opportunities to cheat are defined, then I'm literally beating them off with a stick in both hands!


I guess if you are into that ...


----------



## isla~mama

Browncoat said:


> Church... really is that a big pickup spot? If so, I'd say you're only reason for being there is not religion... again you're explicitly looking for it. I've gone to church all my life, and in that time only heard of one affair (albeit it was a youth pastor and his secretary so I'd file that more under "work" rather than "church").


I knew a guy whose wife cheated with not one but TWO married deacons at their church. I imagine church is a dangerous place because you have a lot of social contact and it can feel "safe" since it is, after all, church, and once the closeness is established between the parties it gets easier to cross the lines.


----------



## Browncoat

isla~mama said:


> I knew a guy whose wife cheated with not one but TWO married deacons at their church. I imagine church is a dangerous place because you have a lot of social contact and it can feel "safe" since it is, after all, church, and once the closeness is established between the parties it gets easier to cross the lines.


IDK, I've been to church most of my life, and I can recall only twice that folks committed adultery (I said one before, recalled a second the other day).

One was a youth pastor with his secretary (cliche isn't it). That's almost more like a work situation than anything though.

The other was a choir directory (huge church) with one of the singers.

There may very well have been others, but in my experience not very common.

Who knows maybe it's rampant and I'm just clueless (ignorance is bliss lol).


----------



## uhaul4mybaggage

Po12345 said:


> I am friendly and outgoing, so I connect well with people, even those I don't know. It is hard to draw a line between this, and being flirtatious, so I've had situations where women have come on to me.
> 
> I find it relatively easy to avoid allowing this to ever go beyond that:
> 
> No matter what I am doing, I always think to myself "How would I act if my wife was sitting here with me?" and that really helps out a lot. If there is anything that seems even remotely questionable, I refrain from doing it. I will bring up my wife in conversations with other women if it appears they are not getting the hint. If this doesn't work, I will extract myself and leave. It isn't that I don't trust myself, it just makes me uncomfortable to be in a situation where someone is hitting on me repeatedly.


So, yes, send me some of your hair so I can clone you. She is very lucky and I hope she knows it. I think a unwaveringly faithful man is tremendously sexy, and I would never hit on a married man (long as I knew he was married,) but I would sure envy his wife.


----------



## uhaul4mybaggage

Halien said:


> livnlearn,
> 
> Thanks for understanding the tone of what I was trying to convey. When I was referring to male vs. female response to opportunities, I was really referring to what I think are cultural assumptions we make, and not the specific examples in this thread. In general, men and women will accept that a woman will have opportunities (literal definition) for cheating, but most of these women actively work to avoid conveying intent. We see women as the pursued ones, but not so much men. I think the way this can creep into our responses here can sometimes creep into the assumptions people hold in unhappy marriages. I don't want to name names, but I'm always so impressed with one member here who saw the positive traits of her "nice guy" husband, and actively chose to treat him like the rare man of integrity he is. Not that I have the answer, but I suspect that many of us, men and women, do not really treat a person like we can theoretically lose them, and I just wonder if some part of this is due to bias that we take for granted.


Guilty as charged. I don't know how long my H was cheating on me, but I know that when I met him, I was a lot nicer to him, and I do think I took him for granted because I didn't think I could lose him. But then again, there were a lot of other things going on too. This has definitely crossed my mind often, though, and there is a reason for that. :-/


----------



## uhaul4mybaggage

To me, the saddest part of many of the relationships where it begins to settle into a virtually sexless relationship, not at all like it was before marriage, is what it says about how the spouse views the one with unmet needs. (Halien)

To be fair to me, my needs for emotional intimacy began to be ignored from day one of our marriage. I think one of the "assumptions" is that men's need for sex trumps women's need for intimacy. At least, that is what my limited experience of the world has shown me in my relationships and those of my friends.


----------



## Stonewall

Browncoat said:


> So in the thread asking if all men cheat, I noticed a number of folks talk about how they have opportunities to cheat. I guess as a father and a husband I was trying to figure out where this "opportunity" was outside of perhaps work (even then you have to commit to going out alone with someone there, unless you make house calls). Frankly the rest of the time most fathers I don't think have opportunity, unless they are looking to cheat on their wives. Though maybe I live in a bubble so I thought I would ask.
> 
> Here are the tasks I typically engage in outside the home (and let's face it most women do go into married men's houses and try and pickup the husband for an affair).
> 
> Going shopping (hardware or groceries), I get things hardly talk to anyone. Not like women randomly pickup men there... sorry never seen it or heard of it.
> 
> Dropping/Picking up kids at school, which means I sit in my car and inch forward until I get my kids. Zero opportunity to even talk to a woman.
> 
> Gym, no one talks or hardly looks at anyone else. I don't see men or women going around hitting on folks there... people just go, work out, and leave.
> 
> Church... really is that a big pickup spot? If so, I'd say you're only reason for being there is not religion... again you're explicitly looking for it. I've gone to church all my life, and in that time only heard of one affair (albeit it was a youth pastor and his secretary so I'd file that more under "work" rather than "church").
> 
> Rest of the time it's time spent with kids or just around the home... because most Dads have little time for other things.
> 
> I could imagine some would mention business trips. I've been on a number, it's not hard to just go back to your hotel after the day is done and get on the phone to your wife. That's what I do... oh unless you are proactively looking for a woman to cheat with.
> 
> So again my question is where is this "opportunity" to cheat, unless the father goes looking for women proactively. Just curious (not that I want to cheat just don't understand what the issue is).


You seem to connect opportunity with wanting to cheat. I have had many opportunities but never wanted to and didn't but the women did.


----------



## Bluemoon1

Always remember where there is a will there is a way, people will go to great lengths to see each other, you only have to read some of the stories on infidelity forums to see this


----------



## joshbjoshb

uhaul4mybaggage said:


> To be fair to me, my needs for emotional intimacy began to be ignored from day one of our marriage. I think one of the "assumptions" is that men's need for sex trumps women's need for intimacy. At least, that is what my limited experience of the world has shown me in my relationships and those of my friends.


Wrong wrong here. If you need emotional intimacy, just create it, talk about it, find ways for it to happen.

When men want sex they say it, they act it, they just come to bed and start doing it. Don't wait there your entire life for your husband to initiate things and then get upset when he doesn't.


----------



## Halien

uhaul4mybaggage said:


> To be fair to me, my needs for emotional intimacy began to be ignored from day one of our marriage. I think one of the "assumptions" is that men's need for sex trumps women's need for intimacy. At least, that is what my limited experience of the world has shown me in my relationships and those of my friends.


When you look at how our culture has developed, especially recently in the TV age, I tend to agree with you, but I feel like it is an unintentional thing, in many cases. We see one common theme about sex on TV and the movies, but how many people really had parents who take the time and feel comfortable talking about the deeper meaning of intimacy? A man and his wife can view sexuality so differently, and can't even frame a reference to discuss some aspects of these differences.

I could see the contrast in cultures because I spent some of my younger years among a culture of a small native american community. Sexuality was considered more of a natural part of growing up, and there was open discussion about the differences in the spirit of a woman versus a man. Marriage tended to be built upon the expression of the woman's spirit as the life of the new relationship.


----------



## Browncoat

Stonewall said:


> You seem to connect opportunity with wanting to cheat. I have had many opportunities but never wanted to and didn't but the women did.


The reason I connected the two (opportunity with desire to cheat) was because it is a part of my theory which this thread was designed to explore.

My theory was (and still more/less is) that for most married men, especially fathers, with the exception of work, you have to put yourself out there in order to have opportunities. Most fathers, outside of work, just don't spend enough time with others for opportunity to exist... because you need/want to get back to your wife and children.

There have been some very interesting things stated in this thread, but little to disprove that theory. I could be wrong though.


----------



## AFEH

Some guys play squash/softball/tennis once or twice a week, golf, badminton, swim after work, play competition bridge, chess ......


----------



## Browncoat

AFEH said:


> Some guys play squash/softball/tennis once or twice a week, golf, badminton, swim after work, play competition bridge, chess ......


My point is if you make a point to not hang out with women 1v1, I just don't see where doing any of those things is going to have women coming out of the woodwork to hit on you.

I work out 5 days a week now-a-days, no opportunity because I keep to myself (as does the vast majority of others). If you play sports, and you play them with other guys... no opportunity (unless you are bi/gay).

I hope I don't come across as argumentative, really not trying to be. If you make a point to not spend time with women alone, don't flirt, and don't pour your soul out to other women (leave that stuff to your male friends or anonymous places like this). I just don't see that there is all that much opportunity, when parenting and family life takes so much of your time outside of work.

I've been on business trips, and frankly never found it hard to avoid temptation. Just go do your work related things, hang out at after work group social dinners/drinks, and go to your hotel room (alone or with male coworkers to hang out).

I could be wrong though.


----------



## AFEH

As I said I had a woman knock on my room door in the early hours of the morning. She wasn’t part of my group, we were at the hotel on a two day team training course but she did sit in the lounge chatting with us. I didn’t give her any encouragement whatsoever. She was in her nightclothes, sat on my bed and said she wanted a light. Where she got my room number from I haven’t a clue.

You do seem to be coming over, at least to me, in some form of self-righteous way. I can assure you I’ve had women come onto me without any encouragement from me at all. And I can only imagine I’m by no means unique! Some women do mistake my openness and smile as a come on when it isn’t, It’s just being friendly. Much the same way a guy can misinterpret a woman’s friendly open nature and think she’s giving a come on.

It’s really weird at times. Even in my teens it seemed the less interested I was the more interested the women were. Never been able to work them out.


----------



## ocotillo

Browncoat said:


> I've been on business trips, and frankly never found it hard to avoid temptation. Just go do your work related things, hang out at after work group social dinners/drinks, and go to your hotel room (alone or with male coworkers to hang out).
> 
> I could be wrong though.


People are unpredictable. Don't underestimate their ability to get or give the wrong idea 

Years ago, an attractive single mother moved in across the street from us. She had a son the same age as our youngest daughter and the two kids went to school together. 

My wife talked to this lady far more than I did. Other than hello now and then, I hardly said anything to her. After awhile though, her little boy started coming over when I was outside working on the yard/house/vehicles. At first he'd just quietly watch, but then he wanted to help. 

As much as I dearly love my three daughters, none of them has ever wanted to help me bend conduit or fire a Ramset. He didn't have a father and these are useful things to learn, so I let him help with small tasks and taught him as we went. He was an intelligent, polite little boy with a good mechanical mind. 

It gave his mother _entirely_ the wrong idea. Maybe she was shopping for a new father for her only child and maybe she could sense that the men she had dated were interested first and foremost with getting into her pants. I don't know. At any rate, what happened next was very embarrassing and I'm not going to go into detail. 

I'm not a handsome man, not glib, not 'smooth with the ladies,' so this is not bragging. And if somebody wants to tell me what a dumbass I was for allowing an emotional connection to develop between the little boy and myself or how grossly unfair that was to him, I would agree with you on both counts.


----------



## tacoma

Browncoat said:


> My theory was (and still more/less is) that for most married men, especially fathers, with the exception of work, you have to put yourself out there in order to have opportunities. Most fathers, outside of work, just don't spend enough time with others for opportunity to exist... because you need/want to get back to your wife and children.


Considering work is generally 50-60% or more of his life, that`s a lot of opportunity right there depending upon his job.

I don`t really see your point as I don`t tend to consider "opportunity" the way you do.
It seems your implying going out partying, living a single lifestyle.

It`s not like fathers don`t get out of the house and honestly I think you can have just as much "opportunity" at Sweetbay as you can most other places.

I`ve just seen many women make the same wrong assumption you seem to be making here.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Browncoat said:


> So again my question is where is this "opportunity" to cheat, unless the father goes looking for women proactively. Just curious (not that I want to cheat just don't understand what the issue is).


My first "opportunity" was out drinking with a friend of mine at the opening of a new upscale bar. The place was packed. Trying to make my way to the bathroom, I ended up squished together with a girl I thought was hot. The crowd kept sort of pushing me up against her and I kept saying I'm sorry and we made some small talk till we got free.

A little later on after I returned from a conversation with some other friends of mine I saw there, and there is my buddy talking to the apparent girlfriend of the girl I was squished against. He introduced them, and I said of the one, "We've already met". And she said "Yeah, we're already intimately acquainted" and described the situation and we had some laughs. 

Then we're just hanging out talking and she's flirting with me pretty hard... sexual innuendo and what not. That's an opportunity. I'm pretty sure if I was trying I could have made something happen that night and its EXTREMELY tempting.

Then there's opportunities that come along waiting in line at Starbucks or something. When attractive women flirt with you it can be hard to resist flirting back and sitting with someone. I've had several occassions I was tempted to get a phone number.

I had a business trip once with a hot co-worker who I was sure was flirting with me the whole trip. Then one night we all went out to have a couple drinks before going back to the hotel. She was drinking pretty heavily and I was bumming cigarettes from her. She would jokingly hug me, touch my leg, swat me on the butt, provacative body language, sexual hints etc. End of the night comes and we're walking back to the hotel and she reminds me I owe her a pack of cigarettes. I agree and try to get her to walk over to the convenience store near the hotel. She says she doesn't want to walk all the way over there and that I can just bring them by her room. If I would have taken those cigs to her room I garantee we would have had sex. That's an opportunity. I knew I wouldn't be able to say no in person so I opted to give them to her in the morning.

There are opportunities that come when you're not looking for them.


----------



## Browncoat

ocotillo said:


> People are unpredictable. Don't underestimate their ability to get or give the wrong idea
> 
> It gave his mother _entirely_ the wrong idea. Maybe she was shopping for a new father for her only child and maybe she could sense that the men she had dated were interested first and foremost with getting into her pants. I don't know. At any rate, what happened next was very embarrassing and I'm not going to go into detail.


Yeah I can see that happening, guess a big component to this and the story someone shared about a gal at a coffee shop is really anytime you regularly come into someone of the opposite sex a relationship can develop. Wanted or not, looking or not.


----------



## Machiavelli

I used to have "opportunity" every day. It was pretty standard for me to get hit on most days; at the day job, the evening job, and shopping. When I got married and put on a ring, it seemed to increase. I just thought that was the way life was for everybody and all men had to learn to deal with it in the course of everyday life. I got fat and gray-haired at about 45 and found out otherwise, very quickly.

Some guys draw female attention, others don't. I've been both guys and YMM definitely V.


----------



## Browncoat

tacoma said:


> I don`t really see your point as I don`t tend to consider "opportunity" the way you do.
> It seems your implying going out partying, living a single lifestyle.


No, I'm not trying to define opportunity aside from just what the word implies. An opportunity to have (unpaid for) sexual encounter (anything physical) with someone not your wife.

I brought up this thread, because I heard a number of guys purport that they had all this opportunity to cheat. Was trying to figure out what the heck they were talking about.

Since then a few folks have posted some interesting stories that poked a hole in my theory (that opportunity isn't there unless you look for it). That was exactly what I was looking for though, ordinary stories of ordinary people where "opportunity" sprung up... even though they were just going about their ordinary lives.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Browncoat said:


> Since then a few folks have posted some interesting stories that poked a hole in my theory (that opportunity isn't there unless you look for it). That was exactly what I was looking for though, ordinary stories of ordinary people where "opportunity" sprung up... even though they were just going about their ordinary lives.


I think opportunity in this sense is synonymous with extraordinary temptation. I don't know many guys who can withstand a hot girl coming on to them aggressively, and its often she, not he, that sets the limit of where things will go.

Guys will say no a hundred times in a hundred different weak ways (been there done that)... all the while remaining available to be asked again. If she presses the issue, I think most guys will give in... and rationalize that they tried valiantly to stop her. lol


----------



## MominMayberry

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> My first "opportunity" was out drinking with a friend of mine at the opening of a new upscale bar. The place was packed. Trying to make my way to the bathroom, I ended up squished together with a girl I thought was hot. The crowd kept sort of pushing me up against her and I kept saying I'm sorry and we made some small talk till we got free.
> 
> A little later on after I returned from a conversation with some other friends of mine I saw there, and there is my buddy talking to the apparent girlfriend of the girl I was squished against. He introduced them, and I said of the one, "We've already met". And she said "Yeah, we're already intimately acquainted" and described the situation and we had some laughs.
> 
> Then we're just hanging out talking and she's flirting with me pretty hard... sexual innuendo and what not. That's an opportunity. I'm pretty sure if I was trying I could have made something happen that night and its EXTREMELY tempting.
> 
> Then there's opportunities that come along waiting in line at Starbucks or something. When attractive women flirt with you it can be hard to resist flirting back and sitting with someone. I've had several occassions I was tempted to get a phone number.
> 
> I had a business trip once with a hot co-worker who I was sure was flirting with me the whole trip. Then one night we all went out to have a couple drinks before going back to the hotel. She was drinking pretty heavily and I was bumming cigarettes from her. She would jokingly hug me, touch my leg, swat me on the butt, provacative body language, sexual hints etc. End of the night comes and we're walking back to the hotel and she reminds me I owe her a pack of cigarettes. I agree and try to get her to walk over to the convenience store near the hotel. She says she doesn't want to walk all the way over there and that I can just bring them by her room. If I would have taken those cigs to her room I garantee we would have had sex. That's an opportunity. I knew I wouldn't be able to say no in person so I opted to give them to her in the morning.
> 
> There are opportunities that come when you're not looking for them.


Not looking for them? Hug touch and swat you all night and you say not looking for them? If a person did that to me I would say stop I am married. You were looking for them or you say I am not okay with this.


----------



## Trickster

OK Browncoat… For I am beginning to understand what you are talking about now. Over the weekend, I volunteered for an event that I would have to camp out overnight. This was a huge event. It didn’t take long before a MARRIED” woman started working on my team. She didn’t have to…but she did. 

The whole day she kept on finding ways to be near me, looking at me, smiling… She was kinda quiet and didn’t talk a whole lot but it got my brain thinking of things that was not smart. In the morning her hubby was off and I stayed behind pack up and clean and who was there? That woman who was still looking at me every time I looked in her direction. 

Now to your point… Was I looking at her first and she liked the attention? Was I giving off a “Vibe” And just didn’t know it? I hate to say this but if she or I were the aggressive type and started a real conversation, who knows…

Later on her hubby was there and soon it was night time and she put her cot along with her hubbies just a few feet from mine. There were over 50 cots in the tent. I noticed she was looking at me throughout the night.

I am sooo hungry for attention and feeling desired because I don’t get any from home, which is why I am on TAM. The time and opportunity was there. I definitely was attracted to her and she seemed attracted to me. I created the situation.

You are right Browncoat


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

MominMayberry said:


> Not looking for them? Hug touch and swat you all night and you say not looking for them? If a person did that to me I would say stop I am married. You were looking for them or you say I am not okay with this.


Good luck with that. I'm just telling you that's not how its gonna pan out for most guys and in my examples, I absolutely wasn't looking. Most guys are not going to disrupt the social outing to stop a hot girl from hitting on them. Its not only awkward if you're certain she's making moves on you, it would be downright embarrassing when she says "Uh... I'm not coming on to you" which she's bound to do if confronted.

Where exactly is the line? A hug? A swat on the butt while drinking with friends? Its not so clear cut as you'd think. You may be getting a feeling that someone's flirting, but you're rarely positive until it gets pretty overt... but by then, you only recognize it because you suddenly realize you want her. It can and does sneak up on you.

Almost nobody is going to be confrontational about it. The way out is to leave... and that's what I've done in the past.


----------



## Trickster

My Time line on my post was a little off in my post. I am working my my editing skills. 

I have no idea if she was interested or not. Either way, we were both married. I couldn't leave what I was doing, I was there first. Even while her hubby was there, she was still looking. BUT... I liked it!

All of this was over a 24 hour period. I know I would have been embarrassed if I would have said something.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Browncoat said:


> No, I'm not trying to define opportunity aside from just what the word implies. An opportunity to have (unpaid for) sexual encounter (anything physical) with someone not your wife.
> 
> I brought up this thread, because I heard a number of guys purport that they had all this opportunity to cheat. Was trying to figure out what the heck they were talking about.
> 
> Since then a few folks have posted some interesting stories that poked a hole in my theory (that opportunity isn't there unless you look for it). That was exactly what I was looking for though, ordinary stories of ordinary people where "opportunity" sprung up... even though they were just going about their ordinary lives.


I understand better what you mean by opportunity. I tend to think my early examples don't qualify, but that is in part because I did not pursue to see if my "opportunity" would have led to an "opportunity." I think for every opportunity to cheat, there are a lot false opportunities, if you will, where pursuing was shut down.


----------



## MominMayberry

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Good luck with that. I'm just telling you that's not how its gonna pan out for most guys and in my examples, I absolutely wasn't looking. Most guys are not going to disrupt the social outing to stop a hot girl from hitting on them. Its not only awkward if you're certain she's making moves on you, it would be downright embarrassing when she says "Uh... I'm not coming on to you" which she's bound to do if confronted.
> 
> Where exactly is the line? A hug? A swat on the butt while drinking with friends? Its not so clear cut as you'd think. You may be getting a feeling that someone's flirting, but you're rarely positive until it gets pretty overt... but by then, you only recognize it because you suddenly realize you want her. It can and does sneak up on you.
> 
> Almost nobody is going to be confrontational about it. The way out is to leave... and that's what I've done in the past.


You were looking and if you didnt want to upset friends then that says more about your marriage above any thing. You worth your friends more.


----------



## Hank567

Apparently, I'm doing something horribly wrong here. I've been single for a year, and haven't had any situations where a girl was hitting on me. It's not like I haven't been on dates (that's a story for another time). I apparently really really need some of AEFH's mojo.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

MominMayberry said:


> You were looking and if you didnt want to upset friends then that says more about your marriage above any thing. You worth your friends more.


Lady, you're not in my head, so don't tell me what I'm thinking. If I was looking I would have closed the deal with one of the women in my examples. I didn't, I decided to leave the situation.

You're naive if you think opportunities to cheat don't come up without looking for them. There are plenty of sexually assertive women, and EVERY guy likes the attention... especially if he's not getting much attention at home.


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## MominMayberry

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Lady, you're not in my head, so don't tell me what I'm thinking. If I was looking I would have closed the deal with one of the women in my examples. I didn't, I decided to leave the situation.
> 
> You're naive if you think opportunities to cheat don't come up without looking for them. There are plenty of sexually assertive women, and EVERY guy likes the attention... especially if he's not getting much attention at home.


Im not telling you what you think I am reading what you write. 5 girlfriends within marriage and you think you leave the situation? Are you a comic?


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## COguy

Opportunities I could have used recently:

1. Travelling at work, this is a given.

2. Dinners, either for work or with friends. Flirting with waitresses. I had a waitress give me her number recently, but I wasn't wearing my ring that night (not for shady reasons, I lost it).

3. At the play place with my kids, never gone there without my wife and not gotten hit on.

4. Baby sitting for wife's friend, she came home without my wife and threw out the vibe. Another of her friend is giving me the vibe recently, if I wanted to cheat I would only have to get her alone.

There's always opportunities to do the wrong thing.


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## livnlearn

COguy said:


> Opportunities I could have used recently:
> 
> 1. Travelling at work, this is a given.
> 
> 2. Dinners, either for work or with friends. Flirting with waitresses. I had a waitress give me her number recently, but I wasn't wearing my ring that night (not for shady reasons, I lost it).
> 
> 3. At the play place with my kids, never gone there without my wife and not gotten hit on.
> 
> 4. Baby sitting for wife's friend, she came home without my wife and threw out the vibe. Another of her friend is giving me the vibe recently, if I wanted to cheat I would only have to get her alone.
> 
> There's always opportunities to do the wrong thing.


there are also lots of opportunities to misread someone's signals when you are LOOKING to do the wrong thing.


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## Blue Moon

Honestly, there aren't many times that I go out to a bar, club, social gathering, etc. and don't at least get "vibes" from a woman. If you make a lot of eye contact you'll notice it. There's a difference between being friendly and a woman getting a "twinkle" in the eye. Damn if the twinkle has ever lied to me before.


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## DvlsAdvc8

MominMayberry said:


> Im not telling you what you think I am reading what you write. 5 girlfriends within marriage and you think you leave the situation? Are you a comic?


Are you slow? I said I wasn't looking. You say I was. Do you know what I'm thinking?

Every example opportunity I gave in this thread was from my previous *12 years* of faithful marriage. I didn't "start looking" until 6 months ago after having been a very unhappy husband for 6 years... and even then only because an "opportunity" I wasn't looking for presented itself and I decided I liked the attention. I avoided FAR more opportunities in the years I was happily married than I had affairs in the years I was unhappy, so I really don't care what you think. I've decided that its not worth it to stay faithfully unhappy with someone who pays you no attention.

Take the bitter sanctimonious attitude elsewhere, I'm not wasting any more time on you.


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## Jeff/BC

Hank567 said:


> Apparently, I'm doing something horribly wrong here. I've been single for a year, and haven't had any situations where a girl was hitting on me. It's not like I haven't been on dates (that's a story for another time). I apparently really really need some of AEFH's mojo.


Well, if you, then me also. Women don't "hit on me"... not when I'm single and not when I'm married. That isn't to say that some women don't find me attractive... obviously at least one did seeing as I'm married now. But I wouldn't think of it as "hitting on me". We were at a party. We started talking. We liked each other. One thing led to another.

Interestingly though, that answer got me thinking. I mean Carol did proposition me for sex. I declined. I wonder if I don't see such things as "being hit on" simply because I see myself as in control of myself and the world around me. I just saw it as her expressing interest that I did not, at that time, share.

No woman has ever done anything even remotely like that when I was married (and not in the final stages of divorce). I think I just bleed "hugely taken vibes". It'd take a real trooper (and an emotional masochist) to want to pursue.


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## DvlsAdvc8

livnlearn said:


> there are also lots of opportunities to misread someone's signals when you are LOOKING to do the wrong thing.


lol jeez  Yeah, every time we perceive someone to be coming on to us its really misreading signals because we're looking to cheat. <sarcasm> Really??? Does that apply to women to? If someone is flirting with you is it because you're looking? My goodness where do you people come up with this crap? Heaven knows there aren't any sexually assertive women in this world who will flirt with a guy they find attactive.  Shameless! Scandalous! smh

You can misread signals whether you're looking to do the wrong thing or not. As someone who stopped avoiding those signals, I can say without any doubt that we're not misreading much.

If one was looking to do the wrong thing, these wouldn't have been opportunities, they would be a bedpost notches.


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## MominMayberry

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Are you slow? I said I wasn't looking. You say I was. Do you know what I'm thinking?
> 
> Every example opportunity I gave in this thread was from my previous *12 years* of faithful marriage. I didn't "start looking" until 6 months ago after having been a very unhappy husband for 6 years... and even then only because an "opportunity" I wasn't looking for presented itself and I decided I liked the attention. I avoided FAR more opportunities in the years I was happily married than I had affairs in the years I was unhappy, so I really don't care what you think. I've decided that its not worth it to stay faithfully unhappy with someone who pays you no attention.
> 
> Take the bitter sanctimonious attitude elsewhere, I'm not wasting any more time on you.


You make me laugh. You are mad because your wife care about your children and you hate them. Most men care about the children not you. You care about your self. Every body here see that but not you. You are the slow person.


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## DvlsAdvc8

MominMayberry said:


> You make me laugh. You are mad because your wife care about your children and you hate them. Most men care about the children not you. You care about your self. Every body here see that but not you. You are the slow person.


lol I'm not mad at all Mrs Mayberry. And yes, I care enough about myself enough to not stay married to a mommy robot. You're so offended because you're probably one yourself. Checked your hubby's internet usage lately? 

Alas, none of that has any bearing on the existence of "opportunities to cheat" when you're not looking to. They are in fact plentiful. Here's some simple logic even you should understand: If I was looking to cheat in any of the examples I provided from my 12 years of faithful marriage, then any or all of them would have been examples of ACTUALLY cheating rather than remaining examples of high temptation avoided (opportunities). Get it now, or do I have to draw a picture? You don't like the message so you attack the messenger.

Given enough temptation and security from being caught, a large number of men will cheat even though they aren't actively seeking anyone. Throw temptation on top of problems at home and that number only goes up. While hard to pin down, if you search around online most sources you find will put the percent of men who have cheated at some point in their lives between 45-70%. Good luck with your roll of the dice. You might want to climb down from your high horse to see what you roll.


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## discouraged1

SimplyAmorous said:


> I feel when a good person cheats, and Yes.... I feel GOOD People can fall into something (many many say ...Oh it can never happen to me..then when it does, they eat those words).....it is born out of lonliness, a cold rejecting spouse at home, where they are dying inside....they feel unloved, worthless even, another is friendly to them, someone shows they care....we all have emotions and a sex drive... one thing does lead to another.... we are only human....
> 
> When you find yourself in the desert in your own home....months , years at a time...water starts looking pretty damn good outside your doors. But yeah, better to leave those spouses! I am not the cheater type.. but I do not feel I am above falling into something if my husband made me feel like dirt everyday, rejected me continously ,If I was bordering depression over feeling I was worthless... No, that temptation might be too damn much to bare. But I know me.. I would cause so much hell over my unhappiness, raising the roof off of the house...he'd know exactly where I was heading. One thing I am .... is honest.
> 
> I feel this is an excellent book, an excellent author, though many will be insulted by it's title:
> 
> When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationships : Mira Kirshenbaum: Books


This accurately describes how I feel to a tee... ice cold wife at home for years, feel worthless. Will get in shape and find someone else.


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## Browncoat

discouraged1 said:


> This accurately describes how I feel to a tee... ice cold wife at home for years, feel worthless. Will get in shape and find someone else.


Yeah it's the female equivalent of a man whose wife deprives him of any kind of sex for years. He feels the same way.

Bottom line is depriving your spouse of what they need most from the other greatly increases the chance of that spouse seeking their needs met by someone else.


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## Conrad

MominMayberry said:


> You make me laugh. You are mad because your wife care about your children and you hate them. Most men care about the children not you. You care about your self. Every body here see that but not you. You are the slow person.


Have you always been this angry?


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## MominMayberry

Conrad said:


> Have you always been this angry?


No. Marriage made it. You? You seem angry to. The person I talk about has cheat many time and writes he hates his children. I dont think anger was wrong. Read his posts.


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## Trenton

I just recently had a man tell me I was an A-Class person before picking me up off the floor by grabbing my butt cheeks with both his hands and, I kid you not, I could feel his boner in his pants on my leg. This was at an expensive, charity event and I was not on the dance floor or anything like that...I was working the event.

It was a very disgusting experience. My husband was at this same event but not with me at the time. I think if he had seen it he would have killed the guy, I almost wish he did see it so that he could have killed the guy. When the guy did this I was flailing my arms in a...no, no, no motion. He put me down and said to me, "You don't like this?" Of which I replied, "NO!"

Is that an opportunity to cheat or sexual assault? :rofl:

Afterwards, it turned out that he had also done this to another woman at the event and this man has since been asked to resign from his position in the org.

I have to tell you, I'm sure there are opportunities to cheat if you're looking for them. As a woman, I have absolutely no desire to cheat on my husband and I find men who approach me as confusing. I don't even really understand it or what they want. I'm still trying to figure out the difference between a business relationship dance and flirting/someone wanting more than just business.

I am one of those exceptions who is attracted to the brain. Give me an intelligent man who can wow me with creativity and knowledge and I think I'd be tempted. I have yet to run into any man like that besides my husband or sometimes online when you can get to know brains without the usual pressure of trying to interpret body language.

For all intensive purposes I am not a head turner...I'm a middle aged Mom & Wife and I am really clumsy -but- I do talk a lot and engage people, try to make them feel comfortable. I had another post about knowingly dressing to the 9's to impress and I'll admit I also do this. This may be mistaken as flirty or flirting but it's certainly not my intention.

All of this could be easily sorted if we could read minds gosh darn it.


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## Browncoat

Trenton said:


> For all intensive purposes I am not a head turner...I'm a middle aged Mom & Wife and I am really clumsy -but- I do talk a lot and engage people, try to make them feel comfortable. I had another post about knowingly dressing to the 9's to impress and I'll admit I also do this. This may be mistaken as flirty or flirting but it's certainly not my intention.


For lonely guys, yeah talking is equivalent to flirting. I have had friends on multiple occasions (back in college) who were normally very shy feel emboldened enough to ask woman out just because she actually talked to him. They figured she had already made the first move, that she was practically begging them to ask the woman out (in their minds).

Yeah I hung out with the engineers and science geeks... lots of lonely guys there trust me.


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## ocotillo

Browncoat said:


> I have had friends on multiple occasions (back in college) who were normally very shy feel emboldened enough to ask woman out just because she actually talked to him.


--Reminds me of my daughters explaining to me the importance of always wearing sunglasses on public transportation. It was to avoid eye contact with strange men. Apparently even eye contact emboldens lonely guys.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Trenton said:


> I just recently had a man tell me I was an A-Class person before picking me up off the floor by grabbing my butt cheeks with both his hands and, I kid you not, I could feel his boner in his pants on my leg. This was at an expensive, charity event and I was not on the dance floor or anything like that...I was working the event.
> 
> It was a very disgusting experience. My husband was at this same event but not with me at the time. I think if he had seen it he would have killed the guy, I almost wish he did see it so that he could have killed the guy. When the guy did this I was flailing my arms in a...no, no, no motion. He put me down and said to me, "You don't like this?" Of which I replied, "NO!"
> 
> Is that an opportunity to cheat or sexual assault? :rofl:
> 
> Afterwards, it turned out that he had also done this to another woman at the event and this man has since been asked to resign from his position in the org.
> 
> I have to tell you, I'm sure there are opportunities to cheat if you're looking for them. As a woman, I have absolutely no desire to cheat on my husband and I find men who approach me as confusing. I don't even really understand it or what they want. I'm still trying to figure out the difference between a business relationship dance and flirting/someone wanting more than just business.
> 
> I am one of those exceptions who is attracted to the brain. Give me an intelligent man who can wow me with creativity and knowledge and I think I'd be tempted. I have yet to run into any man like that besides my husband or sometimes online when you can get to know brains without the usual pressure of trying to interpret body language.
> 
> For all intensive purposes I am not a head turner...I'm a middle aged Mom & Wife and I am really clumsy -but- I do talk a lot and engage people, try to make them feel comfortable. I had another post about knowingly dressing to the 9's to impress and I'll admit I also do this. This may be mistaken as flirty or flirting but it's certainly not my intention.
> 
> All of this could be easily sorted if we could read minds gosh darn it.


I'd consider what happened to you harrassment. But being clumsy is actually attractive to me... it has this strange sort of cuteness to it that I can't really explain. 

I find brains reallyattractive. Extremely attractive. When you're not actively "looking", intelligent conversation seems perfectly platonic and harmless. But a lot of times the conversation begins to turn and become flirty, and you've already been sucked into enjoying the conversation with this person. If asked if I thought a conversation would go that route in the beginning... I'd have said no way.

Its the seemingly innocent things that are the worst. You're sucked in by talking about common interests or intellectual pursuits and then you realize the conversation made an inappropriate turn at some point. There's the opportunity. You get this vibe that you can lead this where ever you want to. Or maybe you're complaining and the person provides a sympathetic ear and an attachment evolves. My string of affairs began this way. I was unhappy, but I certainly wasn't looking to cheat until inadvertently connecting with someone in a totally platonic sense - weekly sessions listening to each other gripe about life troubles. She followed up with flirting, and it felt good to be a priority to someone again... so I flirted too. I went for it where I would have walked away in the past.


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## Entropy3000

Trenton said:


> I just recently had a man tell me I was an A-Class person before picking me up off the floor by grabbing my butt cheeks with both his hands and, I kid you not, I could feel his boner in his pants on my leg. This was at an expensive, charity event and I was not on the dance floor or anything like that...I was working the event.
> 
> It was a very disgusting experience. My husband was at this same event but not with me at the time. I think if he had seen it he would have killed the guy, I almost wish he did see it so that he could have killed the guy. When the guy did this I was flailing my arms in a...no, no, no motion. He put me down and said to me, "You don't like this?" Of which I replied, "NO!"
> 
> Is that an opportunity to cheat or sexual assault? :rofl:
> 
> Afterwards, it turned out that he had also done this to another woman at the event and this man has since been asked to resign from his position in the org.
> 
> I have to tell you, I'm sure there are opportunities to cheat if you're looking for them. As a woman, I have absolutely no desire to cheat on my husband and I find men who approach me as confusing. I don't even really understand it or what they want. I'm still trying to figure out the difference between a business relationship dance and flirting/someone wanting more than just business.
> 
> I am one of those exceptions who is attracted to the brain. Give me an intelligent man who can wow me with creativity and knowledge and I think I'd be tempted. I have yet to run into any man like that besides my husband or sometimes online when you can get to know brains without the usual pressure of trying to interpret body language.
> 
> For all intensive purposes I am not a head turner...I'm a middle aged Mom & Wife and I am really clumsy -but- I do talk a lot and engage people, try to make them feel comfortable. I had another post about knowingly dressing to the 9's to impress and I'll admit I also do this. This may be mistaken as flirty or flirting but it's certainly not my intention.
> 
> All of this could be easily sorted if we could read minds gosh darn it.


Just curious, what did your hubby say when you told him this?


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