# Wife Requested Separation - Advice Sought



## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

My wife (“Anne”) and I have been married for 12 years and have two boys in middle school. We’re both near 50. I thought we had a pretty good marriage. I’m very close to my boys and Anne acknowledges I am a really good dad. Due to Anne’s pain issues, depression and terrible insomnia we sleep in different bedrooms, an arrangement that bothers me terribly but to which she is adamant. Our sex life suffered because of it, but we were generally still physical 2-3 times a month.

A year ago Anne started to show resentment towards me and we ended up having some fights. She told me she was unhappy in our marriage and in fact had never felt close to me except at the beginning. I was shocked and hurt, but soon went into problem solving mode. I went to see her therapist alone and then with Anne. It was productive and I earnestly set out to correct the faults Anne found in me. (Impatient, too controlling, too much of a perfectionist, too quick to fight/flight.)

Anne’s wanted her therapist for herself so we agreed to see another couples’ therapist. We saw her for about 9 months every other week. We made very little progress. Anne acknowledges she is hyper- sensitive and holds onto even small slights excessively, but that has not translated into any different view of me. Despite Anne’s acknowledgement that I had changed as she desired, she cannot get over the hurts she felt or feel close to me. She said she no longer loved me and was not in our marriage. She also acknowledged she was not invested in the therapy. We have not had sex in 6 months.

The therapist suggested a separation. I thought it would hasten the end of our marriage and was against it, though I would work cooperatively to make it work if Anne insisted. We lingered in this state for a few months until Anne let me know this week she has rented a place near our home and is moving out. We’ve talked cooperatively about splitting the kids 50/50, finances, etc. I do not believe there is another guy in the picture.

The stated goal is for Anne to feel empowered as a co-equal parent and see if she is better able to handle her pain and depression without me there. If she feels better about herself, she hopes to rekindle feelings for me. She has suggested having family nights and possibly date nights. Her lease is 6 months. We have not yet told the kids.

I am terrifically hurt but trying to stay positive, engaged and loving, but I am not optimistic about this ending in anything but divorce. I feel terrible for our boys and will do anything to lighten the impact on them. 

I would love to hear any advice at all from people on how to maximize our chances for reconciliation. Or any other advice. Thanks!


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

jt1251 said:


> not believe there is another guy in the picture.


no one ever does; but you should rule it out so you really know what you're dealing with here. Get a PI to check out her activities in her new bachelorette pad for a few days.



edit: just saw your old thread about her and her old flame "john"...I'd assume that had something to do with this


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## Faithful123 (Oct 29, 2014)

Dont focus on her or any affair it serves to self torment yourself, you will get worse and feel worse. Its early days and you need to try and keep busy however you can. Read the 180 and observe it, do it for you, use this time as a positive to becoming a stronger independent you. Lean on family or a friend and talk out your feelings, it will help. Accept that she is gone for now, not forever, don't beg don't be as available. You need time to sort your own **** out. Buy a book called No more Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover, read it for you. 

The emotions you are feeling are normal and they will dissipate with time. The knot in your stomach is normal, the cloudy thinking is normal as well. make no major decisions now. Make sure you eat healthy foods and get sleep, it super important for your mental well being. Trust me on this I was you about 3 months ago and I am a little further down the same road. Take it from me you will improve but you have to commit to this, accept it will be a roller coaster and ride it out. Insulate the kids as much as you can, this is you and your wifes issue not theres. be upset when you need to be, dont be a victim is emotionally draining.

I cant stress enough the path of chasing a possible affair partner does nothing to help you....LEAVE IT ALONE. it will come out soon enough if that's whats happening.

So for now nothing rash just read and look after yourself, this site is a safe place to seek advice and vent. Use it to help you. I will be watching your progress. Stay strong.


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

"John" is out of the picture for sure. I know I may be naive but I really do not think another guy is in the picture.


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

Faithful123: Thanks for your advice. I am not focused on a possible affair. (I think it highly unlikely.) I will check out the book. I think it applies. Thanks for the encouragement.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

First thing to do is detach, and focus on you.

Your emotions are raw, and you need time to level off.

Detachment will give us a better view of the situation.

It allows us to better analyze people's behavior around us.

That is why third party non-bias can spot things that we are blind to see.

Focusing on you allows you to put the energy back onto you and invest into you.

The more you focus on her, the less you are working on you, and you get nowhere.

She should have the time to work on her issues.

First goal should not be the marriage,but you. 

If two healthy people are not in a relationship, it is doomed to fail.

You have to figure out your needs and what you want in a partner and she has to do the same.

Sometimes what we seek changes as we grow as people.

Ask your counselor on how to develop communication skills.

Usually the first thing to break down is communication.

Right now she needs to work on her anger and resentment.

You can't be in a relationship if someone resents you.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

“John” may or may not be in the picture but you wife is still keeping that image alive in her mind. As you said, she suffers from depression and John was an escape, he was bringing her a temporary happy feelings. She hasn’t let that go so she wont reinvest back into the marriage.

Your getting lip service on the reasons behind her wanting the separation about feeling empowered as co-parent and seeing how she better able to handle her depression. Its rhetoric and she unfortunately wont rekindle the feelings. Most separations one person waits and one explores a new world. She will explore a new world and feel empowered and “happy” so she will decide that you must be the problem all along. She needs to work on her depression and she is looking at everything but the one that controls that…herself. 

Too many times separations are just time spent learning how to live without each other, it doesn’t work on any issue. Many will tell you that if its separation time, file for divorce make it real. She is unwilling to work on the marriage or her own issues. She also knows you aren’t going anywhere so she always has you as a fallback plan. You don’t want to be the fallback plan.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

honcho said:


> “John” may or may not be in the picture but you wife is still keeping that image alive in her mind. As you said, she suffers from depression and John was an escape, he was bringing her a temporary happy feelings. She hasn’t let that go so she wont reinvest back into the marriage.
> 
> Your getting lip service on the reasons behind her wanting the separation about feeling empowered as co-parent and seeing how she better able to handle her depression. Its rhetoric and she unfortunately wont rekindle the feelings. Most separations one person waits and one explores a new world. She will explore a new world and feel empowered and “happy” so she will decide that you must be the problem all along. She needs to work on her depression and she is looking at everything but the one that controls that…herself.
> 
> Too many times separations are just time spent learning how to live without each other, it doesn’t work on any issue. Many will tell you that if its separation time, file for divorce make it real. She is unwilling to work on the marriage or her own issues. She also knows you aren’t going anywhere so she always has you as a fallback plan. You don’t want to be the fallback plan.



That is why he should detach. Instead of working to get her back, he needs to improve and better understand the situation.

By pining for her, he isn't giving himself any real options.

Some people become detach, and realize all the crap someone has put them through.

They look back, and wonder, why did I put up with that.

We only hope that she does really work on her issues.


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

I am sick of being the one making all the effort. It was getting me nowhere. So the idea of detaching and focusing on myself and the kids and _not _Anne has a lot of merit. I do sometimes think "why am I fighting so hard for someone who is treating me so badly?" But then I think of my boys about to have the fabric of their childhood ripped in half and I redouble my efforts to try to make things good. But I know it's not working.


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

Focus on your boys for now. If your wife wants separation give it to her. Sometimes married couples needs sometime to think about everything that is going and what decisions they have to make. for now focus on yourself n your boys. Get some counseling for yourself. I had to learn the hardway, keep your head up! Reading posts like this breaks my heart all the time. Marriage life is not easy at all. Especially when one person puts their all into it.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Most men have a fixer trait in them. 

Also when we are losing an attachment, we become more clingy and needy.

If you read enough threads, you will notice the trend.

Normally we are not, but going through shock and trauma, we react differently.



Your off balance and off kilter.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

ReidWright said:


> no one ever does; but you should rule it out so you really know what you're dealing with here. Get a PI to check out her activities in her new bachelorette pad for a few days.
> 
> 
> 
> edit: just saw your old thread about her and her old flame "john"...I'd assume that had something to do with this


Do married women with children ever decide to just move out into their own apartment just to work on themselves? I am sure it might have happened, but I would guess this is extremely rare. As well as re writing the relationship history by saying she never loved you, and doesn't love you. 

It seems steps like this would make coping with problems harder due to more financial strain, more work, less certainty of the future etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> Do married women with children ever decide to just move out into their own apartment just to work on themselves? I am sure it might have happened, but I would guess this is extremely rare. As well as re writing the relationship history by saying she never loved you, and doesn't love you.
> 
> *Mine did. But, fortunately, in our case, it's working. *
> 
> ...


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

In your opinion, is this then something unique to female behavior?

I never heard of a man doing this unless he really had no attraction to his wife at all, wanted to play the field, or already had someone. Especially when children are involved. 

And while two people live alone, and might possibly clear up some issues with all that space, would this even translate into the issues not quickly resurfacing once reconciled?

As for myself, if I would leave a girl, much less a wife with children, I can't possibly imagine wanting to go back unless I found life too hard on my own. Which wouldn't be the best reason for going bAck in the first place. Or could translate to I didn't find anyone better with my freedom 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Depends, on if the couple is really working to fix their issues. Usually the answer is no, and one of the partners go out and find a new relationship without realizing that sometimes the issue lies with them.

Some codependents need the space to create their own self identity again. They lose their self in the relationship.

You may work on your own issues, only to find that you are no longer compatible. World views change, people experience the same things differently, and usually separation leads to divorce.

Few make it during separation, and yes some test the water and want to return.

Whoever said life was fair.

Although, people that do divorce, learn a lot about what their needs are and the second marriage divorce rate is 30 percent.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I read somewhere the statistics on seperation were that four out of five separations lead to divorce. With John, depression, rewriting the marriage, I would guess your odds are even worse. Prepare for that and phope for the best.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> I read somewhere the statistics on seperation were that four out of five separations lead to divorce. With John, depression, rewriting the marriage, I would guess your odds are even worse. Prepare for that and phope for the best.


Which makes sense. I could understand getting some space by one partner staying with friends or family. Or even at a hotel. But if you are getting a new home ( deposits, planning,finances, furniture) it seems to be over. Also more or less a way for the leaving partner to have a "sure thing" waiting if it goes horrible wrong. 

It also seems incredibly selfish to me. Putting your life partner through hell to most likely be playing the field or trying to find a new life 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

I appreciate the observation that divorce is probably likely in my case, but I think it is based on my necessarily brief outline of marriage that focusses entirely on our problems. A lot of positive detail is lost. Maybe I'm seeing things through rose-colored glasses to protect my own psyche, but I really believe my wife is a good person who is truly struggling with her depression, insomnia and pain issues. I think she has incorrectly come to see me as the cause of those problems and sincerely wants to see how things go where she is fully in charge of her life and her interactions with the kids.

Now I could react to all this by saying fairly that she is treating me badly and is acting selfishly and I need to take a more confrontational approach, but then the marriage is certainly doomed. I'd rather continue to be kind and cooperative and see if she can start seeing me as I am rather than as the bad actor she has made me into. Anne has a terrible victim complex vis-a-vis just about everyone in her life. I'm definitely victimizer #1, but her family, ex-boyfriends, some friends and co-workers are seen that way as well. I can't get out of that role by telling her she is wrong, I need to show it. (I think.)

Or maybe I'm a fool and she wants to be with someone else. I'd rather take the risk and the humiliation that the former is true instead of act as if the latter is true.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Are you detaching?

Is she seeking help?


If she is not seeking help, she is going to continue the pattern.



She may seek a new relationship and here is the reason why.

The initial stage of romance, called infatuation has the same effects of heroin on the brain.

They ignore each others flaws, and they get the feeling of euphoria.

It will make her feel good.

When she had to end it with the other guy, she went through withdrawal and depression.

Since you don't invoke that feeling of euphoria as the other guy, she thinks there is something wrong with you.

She may resent you for taking away what made her feel good.

Also, if your not doing intimate things during your separation, the bonding hormones that is keeping you together will dissipate.

Oxytocin wears out over time and she has a head start on you.

Higher levels of oxytocin will make you work out your issues, and it is the hormone that is needed for attachment.

Judging that she left you, and wants space, her levels for you is quite low.

Your bonding hormones for her remains high.

Think of an ex-girlfriend, you may have fond memories, and the affection has faded to almost nil, and that is because the hormones that kept you together is no longer surging in your system. When those fond memories pop up in your head, it doesn't invoke the same feelings of the time you were dating.

That is why most separation ends in divorce.

So, when I say start detaching, you need to prepare if she never comes back.

You have to live your own life, and just waiting for someone isn't a good plan.

Living your life for a certain someone is called a codependent.

Don't forget attraction is part of love.

You pining for her and waiting for her is showing signs of weakness.

Women are attracted to strength.

Confidence is one of the traits that women find most attractive in men.


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

Yes, I am detaching in the sense of not proactively working to win her back. I am kind, compassionate and cooperative, but not pleading, guilting, pining, etc. I am prepared for divorce. I am confident things will work out fine for me in the end regardless. I don't deny I am terribly hurt by all of this but I am an emotionally strong guy. The kids are the ones who will experience the most pain and that's what I want to prevent more than anything. 

Yes, she has been seeking help for years and continues to: psychiatrist, her therapist, our couples therapist, acupuncturist, some holistic healer of some sort, etc. 11 medications a day.

I do understand attachment through intimacy and it fading, and the allure of a new relationship. I may be a fool, but I really don't think at this point she's seeking another guy; she's just desperately sad and has convinced herself it's not her depression, it's me that is causing it.

That said... 

I've been bouncing around here and see a lot of commentary to the effect that the "I-love-you-but-Im-not-in-love-with-you" line is a huge red flag of an affair underway. She has given me the ILYBINILWY line a dozen times at least. I'm not sure I believe that it is such a clear marker -- I think she says that simply to assuage her own guilt -- but it is giving me pause, to say the least.

Thanks for all the input. Even the "you're doomed" commentary is very helpful to read.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

There is always a chance.

Is there a stable female role model in tyour children lives. 
Like an aunt, or grandma?

Have you read the threads where the guys claim that their wives will never cheat?

If she does can you forgive her?

I really do wish you the best of luck.

You sound like a really great guy.

I hope there is a strong support system around you, but from an anonymous person I believe there is.

Usually grounded people have a grounded family behind them.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

jt1251 said:


> I appreciate the observation that divorce is probably likely in my case, but I think it is based on my necessarily brief outline of marriage that focusses entirely on our problems. A lot of positive detail is lost. Maybe I'm seeing things through rose-colored glasses to protect my own psyche, but I really believe my wife is a good person who is truly struggling with her depression, insomnia and pain issues. I think she has incorrectly come to see me as the cause of those problems and sincerely wants to see how things go where she is fully in charge of her life and her interactions with the kids.
> 
> Now I could react to all this by saying fairly that she is treating me badly and is acting selfishly and I need to take a more confrontational approach, but then the marriage is certainly doomed. I'd rather continue to be kind and cooperative and see if she can start seeing me as I am rather than as the bad actor she has made me into. Anne has a terrible victim complex vis-a-vis just about everyone in her life. I'm definitely victimizer #1, but her family, ex-boyfriends, some friends and co-workers are seen that way as well. I can't get out of that role by telling her she is wrong, I need to show it. (I think.)
> 
> Or maybe I'm a fool and she wants to be with someone else. I'd rather take the risk and the humiliation that the former is true instead of act as if the latter is true.


I was in the same spot 2 months ago. All I can say is that now I feel much better being away from her. Really was sick of also being the "victimizer", when I did more for her than anyone ever has in her life. There is no logic when it comes to these things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> ... Really was sick of also being the "victimizer", when I did more for her than anyone ever has in her life. There is no logic when it comes to these things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel exactly the same way. I have treated Anne better by miles than anyone ever in her life has. It just kills me that she sees me in a bad light.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Even if another man isn't present currently, she was involved in an EA in the past which she got happiness out of. Even if temporary. This is what she is chasing. She has made you "the bad guy". You are at fault and why she isn't happy and has probably convinced herself of that which is quite common. 

In her mind she is chasing a fairytale. She has a picture of a great life away from you in her head. In the short term she will find some happiness with freedom and away from you and less responsibility with the kids. Its kind of like going on vacation, everyones loves going on vacation but it doesn't fix anything and it doesn't last. She can avoid her issues in the short term. The real world always comes a calling.

Your thinking is giving her space and time she will realize the marriage isn’t “doomed” and want to come back. Time and space are not your ally when it comes to separation. It obvious that you care for her and your family and NOBODY wants to be in the position you find yourself. I lived with the professional victim and I know how hard that dynamic can be and depression only fuels the victim role. You will be the bad guy no matter what and no matter how hard you try to not be that role. She needs you to be and will manufacture the story if need be because of her unwillingness to own her decisions. 

You are in the mode of reacting to everything which is the worst position to be in. Everything you have done or tried has gotten you to this point in your marriage and you know it hasn’t worked. It sounds like you have been dealing with the depression for a long time in the marriage. You couldn’t have been happy with how the marriage has been going.


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

honcho said:


> Even if another man isn't present currently, she was involved in an EA in the past which she got happiness out of. Even if temporary. This is what she is chasing. She has made you "the bad guy". You are at fault and why she isn't happy and has probably convinced herself of that which is quite common.
> 
> In her mind she is chasing a fairytale. She has a picture of a great life away from you in her head. In the short term she will find some happiness with freedom and away from you and less responsibility with the kids. Its kind of like going on vacation, everyones loves going on vacation but it doesn't fix anything and it doesn't last. She can avoid her issues in the short term. The real world always comes a calling.
> 
> ...


Extremely well said. I pretty much agree with every word. 

To clarify, I fought hard against the separation and the space and time it gives her, thinking it would end badly. I think she will be happier in the short term and will attribute that to being free of me. It is only now that she has firmly decided to move out that I think my best option is to accept that reality and make the best of it. I want my kids to see me as they currently do as a solid, honest, and kind man. 

No truer words have been spoken than: "She needs you to be [the bad guy] and will manufacture the story if need be because of her unwillingness to own her decisions." From last night:

*Anne*: We should tell the kids it is a mutual decision.
*Me*: But that's not true. I shouldn't have to both endure the pain of you leaving and take the blame from the kids for what is solely your decision.
*Anne*: But then they'll hate me.

Victimhood is the narrative of her life and I've sadly come to realize that nothing I do will change that.


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> There is always a chance.
> 
> Is there a stable female role model in your children lives.
> Like an aunt, or grandma?


Yes, but we live across the country from them. Despite the issues, Anne is a loving good Mom to our boys.



Mr.Fisty said:


> Have you read the threads where the guys claim that their wives will never cheat?
> 
> If she does can you forgive her?


Yes, and I'm open to the possibility but just don't think she has. And yes I would forgive her if she is truly contrite and honestly interested in a loving relationship with me. 



Mr.Fisty said:


> I really do wish you the best of luck.
> 
> You sound like a really great guy.


Thanks.



Mr.Fisty said:


> I hope there is a strong support system around you, but from an anonymous person I believe there is.
> 
> Usually grounded people have a grounded family behind them.


I am close to family and many friends, but again we live across the country now. I'm very close with my boys and hope my relationship with them with help salve the wounds. Her parents are also likely to be supportive of me and angry with Anne.

Thanks for all your thoughts.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Jt, do you have a fixer trait.

Normally, when someone meets a mentally unhealthy person, they have a need to fix them.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Although, people that do divorce, learn a lot about what their needs are and the second marriage divorce rate is 30 percent.


You've got it backwards.

For subsequent marriages, the divorce rate is significantly higher than first marriages.

From here:The High Failure Rate of Second and Third Marriages | Psychology Today

_Past statistics have shown that in the U.S. 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 73% of third marriages end in divorce._


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## jt1251 (Feb 28, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Jt, do you have a fixer trait.
> 
> Normally, when someone meets a mentally unhealthy person, they have a need to fix them.


I am very much a problem solver by nature, but that had nothing to do with falling in love with my wife. She was fun, funny, adventurous, easy-going, incredibly beautiful, compassionate and a great friend. She had no faults as far as I knew then. Her depression, or at least its outward manifestations, and pain issues came later.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

As said many times before. You need to work on slowly detaching from your wife. Spend more time working on yourself. Yes, get selfish. You cannot fix her. Dont even try. Your wife needs to be the one to bring back those wonderful traits you listed. As far as the children go, I think its far too early to talk to them about this right now. Things may change.


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## Lynnie1981 (Nov 9, 2014)

Super proud of your detachment JT. I'm still detaching myself as well. Keep up the good work on your detachment, you soon will realize that your better off with someone that deserves you.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

The fixer/problem solver role grows the longer your married it seems. It just creeps in without realizing it. It becomes second nature. It took me a few months after my stbx was out of house to realize how much. It really struck me one day when I got a text from her in full victim mode with a whole laundry list of "disasters". All I kept thinking is how easy all these problems would be to take care of. All she wanted was to play poor me routine I feel sorry and fix it all . I was so nice to realize in that moment I didn't have to try and fix it anymore. 
Your spouse will most likely still rely on your problem solving for her during separation. Your natural instinct will be to help. Its a real fine line in needing help and her just relying on you to fix it so to speak . Watch for that .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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