# So I married a nun...



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Hi folks. I haven't posted in a while. Things have been going a little better both in my attitude and frequency of sex. A little bit of the man up thing but mainly a shift in MY attitude.

(Also finally got my P90 cd's and started today!  )

Anyway as we have been going through this process it has become extremely clear to me that my wife has become a prude. Though she is trying she still obviously does not understand my need for her to actually desire me, not just have sex with me.

She has never had much nipple sensitivity so that does nothing for her. She isn't really interested in cunnilingus anymore (which I LOVE doing and she has been letting me some). Won't even let me put my fingers in her anymore. Doesn't want to try toys.

Now granted I have an over the top drive and would try just about ANYTHING with her so there is a big gap there but I'd be happy with a little variety.

She readily admitted that she used to use sex to get or keep a guy so of course my question was "So now that you have me you don't 'have' to anymore?"

Anyway I am all over the place as usual. In some ways I guess I should be happy that she tells me how she likes it (basically one specific position). But I feel like she is missing out on so much more.

Am I being unreasonable? Should I just be happy knowing I have a great wife and mother to my children? Is it too much that I want to have sex with someone that WANTS to have sex with me?


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

*sigh* No, you're not unreasonable. You are a living, breathing person. Wife and mother mean nothing if lack of sex is causing resentment. 
She had sex to get you and now that you're married, she feels that she doesn't need to pretend to enjoy it. So sorry, my dear! I believe that wives who don't have sex or try different things are BAD WIVES. Sex is a part of marriage!
You may have to seriously ponder a separation. That may jolt her into realizing how important her desire is to you.
I don't know how these types justify their behavior!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm not about to sit here and say she is a "bad wife". She is trying. I am mainly trying to find out if I am out of the norm here.

Apparently her friends make it sound like I am some kind of nymphomaniac or something.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

No you aren't being unreasonable and in my circle it's not the norm. Most men want their wives to initiate, be adventurous, try things, all of it. My friends all go to those "fun" parties, buy lingerie, try new positions, all of it. What kind of friends does she have?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Calling someone a "bad wife" probably isn't the best use of words. That would be like me saying "people who don't want to do A, B or C are "bad people!" Its not productive. I'm sure if there was something you didn't want to do or like doing even if it has nothing to do with sex, you wouldn't want someone to say you're "bad" because of it. 

Anyway....

No one truly knows why his wife might have this lack of desire. Maybe she doesn't even know herself. Although I may have missed some OP of yours frustr8. You stated, she was trying, so that should account for something. If at some point you just can not deal with her only trying some but not enough for your liking, then yes, you might want to think about things further and what you can and can not deal with.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Sex is a large part of being a spouse. If either spouse is not sexually available, they are not honoring their marriage vows, thus making them bad spouses. I stand by my choice of words.
She cannot be trying that hard, if her husband has so many complaints. I mean, no oral? No position switching? Give me a break! Being a wife is so much more than looking after children, cooking and cleaning house. Men can live with a less than spotless home, if the sex is exciting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

trey69 said:


> Calling someone a "bad wife" probably isn't the best use of words. That would be like me saying "people who don't want to do A, B or C are "bad people!" Its not productive. I'm sure if there was something you didn't want to do or like doing even if it has nothing to do with sex, you wouldn't want someone to say you're "bad" because of it.


:iagree: :iagree: So true!

To the OP, do you feel she will come around more? You did say she was trying some. How long are you willing to hold on and see if she will get back to where she might have once been?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

frustr8dhubby try to consoladate a sexual relationship that is with your wife not on all the things you can get her to do.

The words nun and prude to describe your wife is really not OK. These seem like judgements. Suppose she called you a sex crazed pervert? You want her to accept you but you can't do the same. So why do you expect it from her?

Intimacy is established between people who open themselves to each other. Right now you secretly judge her and call her names, you are not being open. Besides, why would she want to open herself to a man who does that. If you think she does not know how you feel, guess again because it comes out. 

Your impatience to get something sexual out of her before you have even make sure she is comfortable is a sign that you have a hidden agenda, to turn the prude in to a sex goddess. 

Makes it seem like sex is all about you and she is a convenient vehicle for you to try out positions and toys. You wont establish much trust and intimacy.

If you were patient and accepted her where she is now and made sure that she was comfortable and you to built on her confidence and trust, you would get what you want eventually. Instead, you rush into getting her to do things for you.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Callilily and Catherine602,

Uhm, this is after more than seven years of a nearly clinical "sexless" marriage. (We have been married for close to 13). So I was nearly at my breaking point before she started trying a few months ago. (Callily, btw, it is funny that callililies are her favorite flowers. She carried them in our wedding).

Catherine, she does think I am a sex crazed pervert. And she was not always such a prude. And yes prude may be a bit severe but it isn't too far off. When we were dating she was actually higher drive than me at the time. I have always had a bit of a kinky side and never made any bones about it so it isn't like this is something new I have just sprung on her. And I am not asking her to do anything she might be uncomfortable with. Unfortunately, she seems to be uncomfortable with all of it anymore. Do you have some magic timeline for patience? Admittedly, mine is running pretty thin so it's hard to be objective.

magnoliagirl. That's funny, she was recently invited to one of those parties. Of course she wouldn't go. Which, to me, kind of deflates her argument that all other women don't want sex either..


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I think not wanting to have sex in a committed marriage makes you a bad spouse...period. Think about it objectively. You lock up your spouse forever, promise them that they never have to desire another, then proceed to decrease the intimacy to the point where the other party is jonesing like an addict.

Bad spouse.


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## surfergirl (Jan 27, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Uhm, this is after more than seven years of a nearly clinical "sexless" marriage. (We have been married for close to 13).


So what happened 7 years ago that things changed for her? (sorry if you have explained this in another post somewhere)


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Don't know of anything specific other than it just kept getting worse and worse after the birth of our first (12 years ago). 7 years ago was the birth of our 3rd daughter.


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## anon_4_now (Mar 23, 2011)

trey69 said:


> Calling someone a "bad wife" probably isn't the best use of words. That would be like me saying "people who don't want to do A, B or C are "bad people!" Its not productive. I'm sure if there was something you didn't want to do or like doing even if it has nothing to do with sex, you wouldn't want someone to say you're "bad" because of it.


There is a difference between being a bad person and a bad wife. Just like there are bad Chefs, bad HR Reps, bad artists, etc... They aren't bad people perse.

Part of being a good spouse is to provide the physical and emotional intimacy needed, deserved, and expected by your partner. Just like being a good chef is to know how to balance the acids in your meals. Just like an HR rep has has to know the laws about employee relations etc...

I think they are absolutely correct in saying she's a bad wife. it's now the husbands responsibility to be a good husband and figure out why there is the disconnect and re-engage the wife. 

Marriage is not and never will be an easy ride. You have to work at it on both sides. Even when everything is going perfect, you have to work at it.



> Am I being unreasonable? Should I just be happy knowing I have a great wife and mother to my children? Is it too much that I want to have sex with someone that WANTS to have sex with me?


You are not being unreasonable at all. You do need to go the extra mile and find out why the libido is gone. Then you have to make the toughest decision... What if it's gone and it's something that will never come back... are you willing to stay? 

That is where I am right now. I don't know the answer for myself right now. I just know that the resentment I am building (after years of this) is getting to the point where I am physically affected by it. My health is at risk.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

QFT



sinnister said:


> I think not wanting to have sex in a committed marriage makes you a bad spouse...period. Think about it objectively. You lock up your spouse forever, promise them that they never have to desire another, then proceed to decrease the intimacy to the point where the other party is jonesing like an addict.
> 
> Bad spouse.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Actually it is exactly the right choice of words. For instance I would be a bad surgeon as I have poor small muscle control. That does not make me a bad person. Just a bad surgeon. 






trey69 said:


> Calling someone a "bad wife" probably isn't the best use of words. That would be like me saying "people who don't want to do A, B or C are "bad people!" Its not productive. I'm sure if there was something you didn't want to do or like doing even if it has nothing to do with sex, you wouldn't want someone to say you're "bad" because of it.
> 
> Anyway....
> 
> No one truly knows why his wife might have this lack of desire. Maybe she doesn't even know herself. Although I may have missed some OP of yours frustr8. You stated, she was trying, so that should account for something. If at some point you just can not deal with her only trying some but not enough for your liking, then yes, you might want to think about things further and what you can and can not deal with.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You have been sexless for 7 years now just starting back having sex with some frequency means it is like new. It might help to forget what she was before, she is obviously not that anymore. But since she was before she can possibly get back there again. You have waited for this for a long time but if you're angry and impatient it's like waiting for a bus then beating up the bus driver because it took too long. She is there with you now and the opportunity to once again have a good and close sex life is much better now than in the last 7 yrs.

I still say start where she is now, accept her as she is now, and build the trust and intimacy based on where you are now. What good does it do to expect her to be like she was before, you set your self up to be disappointed. Is she likely to continue to want to have sex with you if you seem impatient and angry. You have every right to be but it will not help now to let these feelings simmer under the surface.

I don't know what purpose it serves to declare her a bad wife, she has been clueless about the pain she put her husband through and she is uninformed about the role of sex in marriage. Those things can be altered by information and experience. Bad people are bad period. She must have some redeeming qualities if you are still with her and still desire her. Consider her uninformed and needing to learn what it takes to be a full partner and a loving wife to a good man who has committed to her. . 

I have no magic quick fix, I have a slow one though - be patient with her, enjoy what you have now and build up trust and intimacy again. I still think having a name for her in your mind is no good. Come to this with a pure and open heart and try to get her to be open with you. Sexual dynamics are too delicate for anger and name calling. You don't like that she thinks you are sex crazed, so why do the same negative naming to her. It takes one person to change the dynamic is that person going to be you? 

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This post is a perfect example of why I have such a high opinion of Catherine. QFT




Catherine602 said:


> You have been sexless for 7 years now just starting back having sex with some frequency means it is like new. It might help to forget what she was before, she is obviously not that anymore. But since she was before she can possibly get back there again. You have waited for this for a long time but if you're angry and impatient it's like waiting for a bus then beating up the bus driver because it took too long. She is there with you now and the opportunity to once again have a good and close sex life is much better now than in the last 7 yrs.
> 
> I still say start where she is now, accept her as she is now, and build the trust and intimacy based on where you are now. What good does it do to expect her to be like she was before, you set your self up to be disappointed. Is she likely to continue to want to have sex with you if you seem impatient and angry. You have every right to be but it will not help now to let these feelings simmer under the surface.
> 
> ...


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

'Bad wife' - not good. Why? Well because she might be 'bad' with the sex role but absolutely fantastic at all the other 'wifey' roles. That doesn't make her an all round 'bad' wife!

A chef might be rubbish at making pastry but excellent with seafood. Doesn't make him a 'bad' chef...but a good one who is cr&p at pastry!

Your wife is not good at sex...but atleast you are going down the right path, albeit slowly. Your wife has realised and ACCEPTED she has issues with sex and is making the effort. Give her credit for trying.

However I really do understand how frustrating it is for you....you want your wife, you want to show her how much you love her in man language (sex) and you want her to speak your language fluently. She doesn't yet, but atleast she's trying to learn.
My wife simply thinks once a month (at very most) is normal and I am a monster for wanting it more often!
So I speak from experience brother!!


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

That's fine if some people feel "bad wife" is ok and the right choice of words. 

I don't think it is, however since its only my opinion, just as thinking someone is a "bad wife" because they don't do this or that is their opinion, its ok. 

People can stand by how they feel, just as I can. 

Even the OP said he wouldn't go as far as to call her a "bad wife" either, so I guess thats probably what matters most.

Bottom line, his wife is trying and he stated she was, so hopefully at some point things will get back on track for them both.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Being bad at sex tends to eclipse other goodness for most men.
Not being sexual for 7 years is nothing short of cruel and mean. He can be celibate on his own! People shouldn't be married if they don't want to have sex.
Sex is a barometer for the whole relationship. Bad sex usually spells much more trouble than how well the chores are completed.
What purpose does it serve to minimize the importance of a satisfying sexual relationship? Look at all the frustrated spouses on this forum, who complain about sex...rarely see threads on husbands who are unhappy because the laundry isn't done.
It is selfish to deprive a spouse of sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

To the OP, I'm glad your wife is at least trying some and that you acknowledge that. I'm sure things are not where you would like for them to be, but maybe she will come around. I'm sure it will be a slow process. 

I agree with Catherine in the sense that its best to focus on where you are now with things, and not so much on how it used to be. Concentrate on the good things about her and the positive things she brings to the table in the marriage and less about the negative things. I'm sure that's easier said than done at times especially if you feel frustrated, but it can be done. 

Its also good you do not deem her as a "bad wife" because of her lack of sex drive for whatever reason. I think we as people all have flaws, made mistakes, and have done some things we aren't proud of. We all have made not the best choices in regards to our marriages and spouses at times, however we can move forward and concentrate on making some changes.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

MEM, WTF is QFT??

Catherine,

Again, I have never said she is a bad wife, I think she is a GREAT wife except for this issue. And she is not clueless on this issue. I have been trying for about a year now hard and heavy to explain and teach her what this is doing to me. I have asked repeatedly over the years to go to counseling with me, she won't. She finally went to a GP, no health issues (including some hormone tests). Though I still can't get her to go to the gyno to discuss it. I would like her to read Passionate Marriage but I don't think she will.

I'm not sure how much more patience/time/understanding you think I need to give? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I am not responsible for some of it. I am by no means perfect and I am working hard on fixing the things that I do "wrong". But if she has no desire for me I just am not seeing how she is ever going to WANT to have sex with me, just just be "willing" to have sex with me. That is what is killing me right now.

Here is a little background that I didn't want to get into because I will likely get ripped apart for it. Last summer I found out that there is a woman who is attracted to me. I have NEVER been the type to even consider an affair but I have to admit that it made me feel very good. Because of our situation I started to actually consider it. After a few months of probably too much flirting (no texting, e-mail or anything like that, just if we had a few minutes we would talk about stuff) I decided I really didn't want to do this and was going to do everything I can to try to fix things with my wife. And that is where I am at so now I have a heightened sense of urgency I guess. I know it makes me a bad person but what can I say, there is a woman who WANTS me and my wife who I know loves me but has zero desire for me..


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

No it doesn't make you a bad person, no more than it makes her a bad wife, which means neither of you are bad, period. You for talking to another woman or considering an affair, and your wife for her lack of sex drive, IMO doesn't = bad spouses. You both are human, you have desires and for whatever reason she doesn't. 

You pulled yourself out of the possible affair situation to work on things with your wife, which is a good thing. Maybe these questions have been asked before, if so I apologize in advance. BUT:

Is it possible there is someone else? 
Have you done or said some things over the years that she holds resentment about, and can't seem to get passed? 
Has she done some things over the years that maybe you're not aware of and she is struggling with guilt over it?

IMO, resentment and guilt are two big ones as far as killing sex.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

AgentD,

I honestly do not think there is anyone else. It has crossed my mind and there is certainly no guarantees but she is so totally disinterested, I can't imagine her wanting it with anyone else either. And she tells me repeatedly that she is perfectly content and happy.

I don't know if there is something I have done or said. I have been trying to get that out of her for months. Again she claims she is completely happy and content so I don't know how to get that out of her. One of the major reasons that I wanted her to go to therapy with me was to find out if there is something that I have done that has caused some resentment that she cannot verbalize with me.

I don't know about guilt either. She was raised Catholic so there is always that "Catholic guilt"  It is kind of funny/interesting that in our last deep discussion about this she said that she was raised that sex was dirty, etc. etc. Of course her mother being a devout Catholic would not even talk to her about sex and apparently caught my wife in the act once as a teenager and made her feel really bad about it. So I suppose there might be something to that but she certainly never led me to believe that in the early stages of our relationship and marriage. As I said earlier early in our relationship she actually had the higher drive because I had just come out of a divorce situation and was kind of woman-hating at the time.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Frustr8 I don't know why you though adding that last bit would make you a bad person. In fact what you described about what you did makes you the very best kind of man. She is lucky to have you, a less honorable man would have had an affair without a second thought. 

With that I changed my mind about you calling her names I think it is harmless when you put in the whole picture. She is a difficult case. Did you tell her about this what happened with this woman? If not why? You experienced a pivotal event in your marriage - you nearly slid down the slope because your wife expresses no desire for you. That is big and she should know how imperiled her marriage is. It was a wake up call for you and you should share the alarm with her - she should know how bad things are and that she could easily lose you. 

If she is aware and still makes a half hearted attempt then you have to plan how much longer you can stay in the marriage and maintain your dignity. If she is resistant to therapy and will not hear you when you tell her how you feel, she is bringing consequences not only to herself but her children. She has no right to risk the disrution of their home because she is too self centered to work with her husband. I see no reason why you should not tell her in a loving way where things are going to lead and tell her the choice is her's to make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Did you tell her about this what happened with this woman? If not why? You experienced a pivotal event in your marriage - you nearly slid down the slope because your wife expresses no desire for you. That is big and she should know how imperiled her marriage is. It was a wake up call for you and you should share the alarm with her - she should know how bad things are and that she could easily lose you.
> 
> If she is aware and still makes a half hearted attempt then you have to plan how much longer you can stay in the marriage and maintain your dignity. If she is resistant to therapy and will not hear you when you tell her how you feel, she is bringing consequences not only to herself but her children. She has no right to risk the disrution of their home because she is too self centered to work with her husband. I see no reason why you should not tell her in a loving way where things are going to lead and tell her the choice is her's to make.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


By far the best advice on this thread. :iagree:


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I would be interested in seeing how she would respond if you presented her with a ultimatium. Or maybe not even that, maybe just up and say you've had enough and put your words into action, and see what happens. Sometimes it takes something like this to happen before a person will actually wake up and take into count the seriousness of it all.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Well I haven't brought up this specific instance because it could hurt our children. This person is still in our lives and could be for years.

I did however bring up an incident of a few years ago when I was on a business trip. One of the women who was out drinking with us one night was really getting hit on by some drunk a-hole. So I walked her back to her room to keep this guy away from her and she basically propositioned me right there. I told my wife that I didn't even really consider it then but if that happened recently it would have been MUCH harder to resist. I was hoping this would be a little bit of a wake-up call. However, she took it as me bringing it up just to hurt her and how could I even consider such a thing... 

I have basically given her an ultimatum which I think is why she is trying as much as she is. However, realistically it is an empty threat because I really don't want to lose her. As I keep saying, in almost every other aspect she is wonderful.

So essentially it keeps boiling down to: Do I risk losing everything else so that I can get the one thing that I (feel) that need badly? And I am not foolish enough to believe that the grass is greener elsewhere.


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

Hi Frustra8dhubby. I just joined the forum and I thought I was seeing myself in your post. My wife also is a great, except for the sex. We are able to have great times together and most times really enjoy our time together, but we have a sexless marriage. She has tried various things, and says she would like to have good sex, but nothing ever really changes. We have sex 5-6 times a year and I always feel like I am abusing her when we do, since she does not enjoy it.

For years, I tried to "get over it" since 90% of the rest of the marriage was great. I tried to just accept the "lack of sex" since the other important things were fine. But, it really doesn't work. In the long run, the resentment and frustration build up and cause me to treat her very poorly, which she rebels against and it causes all the tension in our marriage. We are in counselling now which helps but she said "don't expect me to change" So, my question is this. I feel horrible for considering divorce over sex, but really, it is ruining the marriage. Is this really a sole reason to get divorced? If I do, I could risk not ever having a companion like her again. I'm torn? Any ideas?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

frustr8edmartin,

That is exactly my struggle so unfortunately I don't have much advice. In fact I think I am luckier than you. At our worst we were probably once a month. Right now we are up to 1 or 2 times a week.

But I totally understand your dilemma. Do you not divorce and suck it up and finally blow and have an affair and hurt your wife and children. Or do you divorce over one issue and hurt your wife and children? It is a no-win situation. And I don't know about you but I feel guilty that sex is this high on my list...


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Oh and I keep forgetting to mention. Frequency does not equal desire. When is was once a month I told my wife that would probably be workable if she actually wanted to be there. So even if she agreed to once a day, if the interest isn't actually there, I think there is still an issue.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Oh and I keep forgetting to mention. Frequency does not equal desire. When is was once a month I told my wife that would probably be workable if she actually wanted to be there. So even if she agreed to once a day, if the interest isn't actually there, I think there is still an issue.


I hope she is able to tell you one day soon, why her sex drive has declined. Surely she must know and just doesn't want to possibly hurt your feelings although shes probably hurting you way more by not telling you why. 

I think you seem like a good person with a good heart, whose just frustrated by this situation, and understandably so. Do you think it would be ok for her to read your posts here? Do you think that might be an eye opener or maybe someone here has touched on something for her that she hasn't been able to verbally tell you but if she saw it written here she might could relate?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

frustr8ed's... I was in a similar situation to me, and as martin says, the frustrations and resentments that come up were an signficant contributer to the end of my marriage.

I did end up cheating, as an FYI. I'm not proud of it, and I take the responsiblity for that decision.

C


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

Bang on (so to speak). I feel guilty that I would consider divorce over this issue when there are so many other important issues in a marriage, that really are OK for us. I really could have done a lot worse for a wife. I feel sort of like a sex maniac just for wanting sex to be a part of my marriage. I know its not unreasonable to feel that way. Financially we'd both be OK after a divorce. Our kids are adults. We're in our mid 50's and I really do think I could find another person and be happy, but I'm scared to death of the whole divorce process, but the status quo is so destructive to the marriage and I am just not able to get past the lack of sex. You know, its really not even about the physical part of the sex. For that, I can masturbate or go to a hooker if was that important. I miss the intimacy and desire that should be there in a marriage and all the other feelings that such things bring. I want to be married to a lover, not a roommate. What to do? What to do?


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Oh and I keep forgetting to mention. Frequency does not equal desire. When is was once a month I told my wife that would probably be workable if she actually wanted to be there. So even if she agreed to once a day, if the interest isn't actually there, I think there is still an issue.


Yes that is exactly the issue. I would rather have sex with my wife once a month if it was passionate, intimate and mutually enjoyable rather daily if it is without passion and interest Just FYI, my wife rarely turns me down for sex, but I have just given up because I feel like I am abusing her and it is not satifying for either of us.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

There are 2 very different types of "desire". And my knowledge of this comes from a lot of personal experience being on the receiving end of both.
1. Lust (she does not directly control that)
2. Coming to your bed with a loving heart and genuine desire to please YOU - this is a huge show of commitment and true love

I get a mix. But there have been times when (1) went a away and we did ok with (2). And as part of (2) SHE makes the effort to initiate. I mostly am not inclined to initiate when I sense a lack of desire. And plenty of times she sincerely offers (2) and I gently decline. 

And two is very easy to recognize:
- She is clearly happy that she is making you happy
- She is touching you and participating and making an EFFORT to make it good/great for you. She isn't just "letting you" do it to her. 

If your W is not at least doing (2) that is a huge issue. If she is coming to bed with a "well I know I have to be here - because you insist - attitude" that is harmful to you, and maybe to herself as well. 

And I don't agree someone can be this selfish in a core area, and a "great wife" everywhere else. A great mother - yes. A great W - nope. You can't lock someone into monogamy and do this to them and be comfortable unless you really are dysfunctionally selfish. As for the "willful incomprehension" about how she doesn't really understand how important it it - BS. 





frustr8dhubby said:


> Oh and I keep forgetting to mention. Frequency does not equal desire. When is was once a month I told my wife that would probably be workable if she actually wanted to be there. So even if she agreed to once a day, if the interest isn't actually there, I think there is still an issue.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

AgentD,

I have told her that she is welcome to read this site, but again, no interest. Too busy with f'ing facebook. (And no, no guys just the other mom friends/relatives/etc).

It does scare me a tiny bit though as I know she would be hurt about the other woman comments even though it hasn't gone anywhere. And I have the feeling she would know who it is.


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

Hmm. It is interesting that MEM11363 would say that a wife couldn't be great under these kind of circumstances. How about if the wife SAYS she really want to please me and have great sex, but never follows it through?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

AgentD,

Oh and I forgot. I honestly think she either doesn't know what has caused her decline or she cannot even admit it to herself what the reason is.

MEM,

I don't know how to answer that for you. In her mind she does everything for me and she feels that is how she shows her love for me. And she does. She takes great care of me and our children.

Frustr8edMartin,

Yeah that has to be even harder. My kids are still pretty young (11, 9 and 7 basically) so I have a ways to go yet on the children side. Not that I believe you should stay in a marriage strictly for the children anyway. Kids aren't stupid.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Try an experiment. Tell her you really want to do something special for her birthday. REALLY special. And then give her a card. BTW - I am not joking. And I think you know by now I truly believe you should do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. She needs to "feel" just how awful it is to have someone promise to show you love in a special way and then act as if nothing was ever promised. 

And when she gets furious, which she will - do a calm staredown and ask her "I want you to think about how you feel right now. I want you to think about it and remember it" And then when she tells you how much you suck - just mirror whatever it is she does to you when the situation is reversed and you are angry at her. 

Your main issue is you have a history of "telling" her how you feel instead of finding a way to let her "experience" the same type stuff herself so she REALLY gets it. 

Part of her lack of desire to do (2) from above is her lack of respect for you as a man. I can tell you that a big part of the reason I get (2) from my W is she does respect me. And part of that is because she recognizes just how comfortable I am making HER uncomfortable when she is being selfish. 




frustr8edmartin said:


> Hmm. It is interesting that MEM11363 would say that a wife couldn't be great under these kind of circumstances. How about if the wife SAYS she really want to please me and have great sex, but never follows it through?


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> AgentD,
> 
> Oh and I forgot. I honestly think she either doesn't know what has caused her decline or she cannot even admit it to herself what the reason is.
> 
> ...



hubby. Our circumstances are so similar. My wife also does everything for me and the kids and yet, I focus on the one thing she doesn't do and feel awful about it. It is that one thing she doesn't do that I seem to zero in on, and resent. I wish she would leave the vacuuming and I'd gladly do it. In fact I do a lot of housework because we share everything. I really think my resentment over lack of sex has tainted the way I feel about her to the point where I don't even care how I treat her any more because I don't get what I want. Of course, that is probably the reason she doesn't want sex and it is a circle. How do you treat your wife through all this?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Martin,
How about this. Become the perfect - and I mean perfect husband EXCEPT for one thing. Quit your job. And let your W know you are not interested in working and will not be working anymore. You think she would say "he is so great, I feel awful about resenting the one thing he doesn't do"? Hell no. She would fairly quickly divorce you. And if you think those two things really are different I am curious as to why. Because they really aren't. 



frustr8edmartin said:


> hubby. Our circumstances are so similar. My wife also does everything for me and the kids and yet, I focus on the one thing she doesn't do and feel awful about it. It is that one thing she doesn't do that I seem to zero in on, and resent. I wish she would leave the vacuuming and I'd gladly do it. In fact I do a lot of housework because we share everything. I really think my resentment over lack of sex has tainted the way I feel about her to the point where I don't even care how I treat her any more because I don't get what I want. Of course, that is probably the reason she doesn't want sex and it is a circle. How do you treat your wife through all this?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Well I am sure that MEM, AFEH, and the others would classify me as a "nice guy" but I don't feel I am a doormat. I don't give in to her every whim but I do my best to try to give her anything she wants (within reason). The funny thing is, is that she doesn't want much. She is pretty low maintenance.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hypothetically - jump forward 11 years. Will you stay married to her when your youngest leaves the house if things are this way? 

BTW - her promising and then not delivering - she would not do that if she respected you. And you would absolutely not tolerate it if you demanded respect. 

Your W sounds a little bit like Southbounds. She tells other people how great you are - instead of actually loving you like a real wife. 



frustr8dhubby said:


> AgentD,
> 
> Oh and I forgot. I honestly think she either doesn't know what has caused her decline or she cannot even admit it to herself what the reason is.
> 
> ...


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I will never understand the people who claim they simply do not know why they have no desire or lack of sex. Even after being tested for medical issues and it all comes back fine. 

I think this also goes for everything else, not just sex or lack there of. I truly believe people do know why they have done this or that or not. Admitting it, and talking about what that reason is, is a different story though.

And to the OP I'm not saying by no means your wife is one of these people that has claimed she doesn't know why, but just stating I will never understand those that do say that. I do believe people know why they feel the way the do or not.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

MEM,

That's the other frustr8ed. My wife doesn't promise me and then not deliver. She knows there is an issue and is trying.

Yes, I see myself married to her when the youngest leaves. Unless, the situation doesn't change and I screw up and have an affair or decide I cannot stand it anymore and leave. I won't wait another 11 years.

And she does tell me how wonderful she thinks I am, she just has no sexual desire for me. I know that's counter intuitive, it is for me also.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Jamison,

I agree with you. However, how do you break through that?


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

frustr8edmartin said:


> Bang on (so to speak). I feel guilty that I would consider divorce over this issue when there are so many other important issues in a marriage, that really are OK for us. I really could have done a lot worse for a wife. I feel sort of like a sex maniac just for wanting sex to be a part of my marriage. I know its not unreasonable to feel that way. Financially we'd both be OK after a divorce. Our kids are adults. We're in our mid 50's and I really do think I could find another person and be happy, but I'm scared to death of the whole divorce process, but the status quo is so destructive to the marriage and I am just not able to get past the lack of sex. You know, its really not even about the physical part of the sex. For that, I can masturbate or go to a hooker if was that important. I miss the intimacy and desire that should be there in a marriage and all the other feelings that such things bring. I want to be married to a lover, not a roommate. What to do? What to do?


I hear you brother. It isn't about the act as much as it is the emotional connection. My stbx never was able to grasp that essential concept, and it ended up costing us our marriage.

I honestly think that habbitually denying yourself to your spouse is one of the most corrosive things you can do to a marriage.It shouts "you are not important to me".

In all fairness though it sounds like she's trying to change, and in truth, that's all you can ask of her. Be sure to have her medically checked out, and I wish you and your marriage the best.
LIL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Does she come to bed with (2) like I posted earlier?



frustr8dhubby said:


> MEM,
> 
> That's the other frustr8ed. My wife doesn't promise me and then not deliver. She knows there is an issue and is trying.
> 
> ...


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

MEM,

I don't know how to honestly answer that because I cannot seem to be objective which is part of the reason for this post.

I think she does, yes. However, one of the biggest pleasures for me is pleasing her and she could care less about me pleasing her. That's the rub.

Does that make any sense at all?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Jamison said:


> I will never understand the people who claim they simply do not know why they have no desire or lack of sex. Even after being tested for medical issues and it all comes back fine.
> 
> I think this also goes for everything else, not just sex or lack there of. I truly believe people do know why they have done this or that or not. Admitting it, and talking about what that reason is, is a different story though.
> 
> And to the OP I'm not saying by no means your wife is one of these people that has claimed she doesn't know why, but just stating I will never understand those that do say that. I do believe people know why they feel the way the do or not.


I agree they know. My dh knew. Took me years to figure it out and even longer for him to admit it outloud to me but he knew.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> And she does tell me how wonderful she thinks I am, she just has no sexual desire for me. I know that's counter intuitive, it is for me also.


Hasn't she ever heard of the concept "fake it before you make it?" It's what my therapist tells me to do on things my dh wants but I'm not good at yet. I believe actions precede feelings. It's like dieting or exercise if you wait till you "feel like it" it never happens.


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

lastinline said:


> I hear you brother. It isn't about the act as much as it is the emotional connection. My stbx never was able to grasp that essential concept, and it ended up costing us our marriage.
> 
> I honestly think that habbitually denying yourself to your spouse is one of the most corrosive things you can do to a marriage.It shouts "you are not important to me".
> 
> ...


She doesn't really deny herself to me, but I just don't bother any more because my overatures are received like a chore. As if I asked to to clean the cat box. She just has sex with no emotion, passion, intimacy, desire or interest. It is ALWAYS missionary, no foreplay - just get it over with and fall asleep. It is like passionless sex with a log - 6 times a year, as if I am supposed to be satisfied with that!

It is the lack of desire for me that hurts. BTW, I am healthy, clean, well groomed, in shape, good looking and other women seem to be interested in me. I'm not a slob who cares nothing for my appearance, therefore turns her off. I have tons of friends, both male and female and I am not a loser.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I'm not about to sit here and say she is a "bad wife". She is trying. I am mainly trying to find out if I am out of the norm here.
> 
> Apparently her friends make it sound like I am some kind of nymphomaniac or something.


That's why they are her friends - they support and will agree with her - guarantee you the story she's feeding them has been exaggerated to make it seem like she's the princess and you're some orge - that's how it usually works.

You're not out of the norm.

The fact that she has readily admitted that she used sex to get and keep guys makes you wonder about her frame of mind when it comes to men and love in general.

Sounds like a self-esteem and confidence issue - usually is when sex is used as a weapon to "get someone."

She sounds pretty straight-laced and not very adventurous - kind of in the box instead of outside the box - some past trauma? Or just uptight?

Only you know and only you can find out. Ask the "hard" questions, you might not like some of the answers, but at least you'll know exactly everything you're dealing with.


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

lastinline said:


> I hear you brother. It isn't about the act as much as it is the emotional connection. My stbx never was able to grasp that essential concept, and it ended up costing us our marriage.
> 
> I honestly think that habbitually denying yourself to your spouse is one of the most corrosive things you can do to a marriage.It shouts "you are not important to me".
> 
> ...


Yes I believe she "thinks" she is trying to change, but fact is, nothing has changed in years. So back to my original question, is this a justified reason to divorce and throw everything else into turmoil? Should I just suck it up and say WFH, I have a lot to live for and enjoy the good parts of what we have, and still try to live with it? Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work as she may divorce me if I don't start treating her better, but I really have a hard time doing that because of the way she treats me sexually?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

frustr8edmartin said:


> Yes I believe she "thinks" she is trying to change, but fact is, nothing has changed in years. So back to my original question, is this a justified reason to divorce and throw everything else into turmoil? Should I just suck it up and say WFH, I have a lot to live for and enjoy the good parts of what we have, and still try to live with it? Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work as she may divorce me if I don't start treating her better, but I really have a hard time doing that because of the way she treats me sexually?


And this is another reason why I decided to end things when I did... If I would have waited, I firmly believe things would have ended up getting nasty. This way, we're still amicable with each other, and the kids aren't being affected by parents battling. But I believe a breakup would have been inevitable, if one party isn't willing to make an effort at changing.

Of course, plan B might be to propose an "open marriage"... I don't think I could do it, but whatever... My stbx-wife, on the weekend before I moved out, suggested finishing the basement of our house so I could stay at home. I don't THINK she was serious, but that's a sign of how much she wanted me to stay. I think the open marriage idea would have been over the acceptable line though.

One thing that struck me with the frustrated guys... My thought is that if your spouse is content with the status quo, they won't change until they're forced to. If there's no impact on them when they don't work on the issue, why would they move out of their comfort zone?

C


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

MWIL,

That's just it. Early on she wasn't. She was into drugs at one point in her life (well before me). She and I have tattoo's  She at least used to act like she enjoyed soaking the bed with her gushing orgasms...

Something has changed and I fear it's me and she won't tell me why. Or now that we have children she is strictly in mommy mode and cannot separate that and being a sexual being... I don't know...


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

PBear,

But did you also consider the rest of your relationship "good"? Putting her out of her perceived comfort zone puts me out of mine as well.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I had a very repressed upbringing, went to Cathlolic school indoctrinated by the nuns - sex was dirty, girls who liked sex were worse than the dark one himself and would join him in a dance around the perennial bondfire. I married and had a very hard time getting over my inhibitions. 

I know your history with your wife is different than mine because your wife started out being sexually adventuos but this may be relevant. She may be feeling retroactive guilt if she had a conservative religious background. She may feel guilty about the past now that she is older. What helped me was my husbands patience with me and acceptance of me even when I was so inhibited. He has a light fun approach to sex, he is not serious, never shows dissatisfaction or frustration. I was able to come out of my shell because I felt loved and cared for. 

You say that you been patient enough however you are not patient enough until you patience pays off. What alternative do you have? Rush her to do what you did before or build a new kind of sexual relationship now. Make every attempt to make her feel as loved and cared about, no matter what she does sexualy. One problem with a womans attitude towards sex is that we are vigilant to being used. 

The things that trigger that feeling is being pressured, badgered, coerced, begged repeatedly asked about sex acts, having too much sex that gives the man pleasure bj, hj, use of toys to use while he observes etc. Make it about mutual pleasure and mutual safety and comfort. Start there and when she feels the love and acceptance she may do more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Jamison,
> 
> I agree with you. However, how do you break through that?


That, I'm not sure of. I just believe that they know why they feel the way they do.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> PBear,
> 
> But did you also consider the rest of your relationship "good"? Putting her out of her perceived comfort zone puts me out of mine as well.


How is it going to put you out of your comfort zone? And think about this... A discussion that clearly outlines your requirements and the repercussions of those requirements not being met is likely less uncomfortable than the "I want a divorce" discussion.

For myself, I felt that if the intimacy issues were met, I could have at least hung on until the kids were out of the house. We got along fine, although there's definitely things that could have been improved. But the resentments causes all those other things to go from small speed bumps to large mountains. 

C


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I am generally opposed to an "open marriage" as I think they have a high failure rate. That said, why not suggest it. The conversation goes something like this. 

Clearly you don't feel that sex is a necessary part of a healthy marriage. I have no interest in continuing to try to change your mind. Since you see it as such an unimportant activity, I think the best thing for both of us is for me to find a playmate who enjoys it. 

My guess is she will threaten to divorce you over this. And I think the honest answer is: I am not able to meet your needs while remaining sexless and also be the happy/upbeat guy you want in the house. I am really lowering the bar here and not asking you to do something you clearly find so unpleasant, instead I am simply telling you that demanding virtual celibacy from me while insisting I meet most/all your needs is no longer acceptable. 

I think she will continue to threaten to divorce you. At that point you have a choice. You can either suck it up and pretend you are happy and meet most/all her needs while she demands you remain basically celibate. This will preserve the marriage at the expense of any happiness and peace of mind you might hope to have. 

Or you can continue to show resentment and continue to make less effort to meet her needs until she finally divorces you. 

BTW - It is possible that faced with the prospect of other women having sex with you, she will "discover" her long lost sex drive. It does happen in some marriages.



frustr8edmartin said:


> Yes I believe she "thinks" she is trying to change, but fact is, nothing has changed in years. So back to my original question, is this a justified reason to divorce and throw everything else into turmoil? Should I just suck it up and say WFH, I have a lot to live for and enjoy the good parts of what we have, and still try to live with it? Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work as she may divorce me if I don't start treating her better, but I really have a hard time doing that because of the way she treats me sexually?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

It makes complete sense. Does SHE make an effort to please you? Does she put some effort into foreplay that pleases you? Or does she radiate indifference and "let" you have sex with her?




frustr8dhubby said:


> MEM,
> 
> I don't know how to honestly answer that because I cannot seem to be objective which is part of the reason for this post.
> 
> ...


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I am generally opposed to an "open marriage" as I think they have a high failure rate. That said, why not suggest it. The conversation goes something like this.
> 
> Clearly you don't feel that sex is a necessary part of a healthy marriage. I have no interest in continuing to try to change your mind. Since you see it as such an unimportant activity, I think the best thing for both of us is for me to find a playmate who enjoys it.
> 
> ...


That was very well said. Thank you. I never thought of it that way. She wants me to be the husband she always dreamed of, yet when it comes to what I want, she says "I can't do that and don't expect me to"


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

PBear,

Because it induces useless conflict. Essentially I am saying "Magically desire me somehow or I am gone". I would prefer that she actually desires me and if she doesn't or can't then I have to go anyway.

MEM,

I think in her mind she does, yes. She is happy to give me a BJ, swallow, etc. She even claims to enjoy that. I cannot say that there is ever much "enthusiasm" if that is the right word. Certainly not much in the way of initiation.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Star,

Sorry, never heard of it. Do you have some information on it? Thanks.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> PBear,
> 
> Because it induces useless conflict. Essentially I am saying "Magically desire me somehow or I am gone". I would prefer that she actually desires me and if she doesn't or can't then I have to go anyway.
> 
> ...


Ok now I'm confused. What does "desire you" mean? Define "enthusiasm". Is this just an initiation problem? Sounds like she's trying but missing the mark somehow. Or maybe I'm reading this wrong.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> Ok now I'm confused. What does "desire you" mean? Define "enthusiasm". Is this just an initiation problem? Sounds like she's trying but missing the mark somehow. Or maybe I'm reading this wrong.


I was wondering this myself...you said she is "happy" to give a bj, etc....but that she doesn't have the enthusiasm? I'm a little confused. Is she doing it because she has to or because she wants to?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> MWIL,
> 
> That's just it. Early on she wasn't. She was into drugs at one point in her life (well before me). She and I have tattoo's  She at least used to act like she enjoyed soaking the bed with her gushing orgasms...
> 
> Something has changed and I fear it's me and she won't tell me why. Or now that we have children she is strictly in mommy mode and cannot separate that and being a sexual being... I don't know...


And you won't know unless you ask the hard questions and she's willing to answer them.

Sometimes that's when MC helps as they will open up in the comfort of someone else guiding them more than they can sometimes open up to their own spouse. My husband says things in counseling he's never actually said to me face-to-face, catches me off-guard a lot - but it is helpful.

The fact that she actually told you that she used sex to get and keep men, she might have been doing a "great" acting job previously (I hate to say it, but trust me on this one - you guys can't really tell the difference). 

Usually the spouse getting rejected always feels that it's them - they're not attractive enough, not good enough in bed, etc. The blame usually lies with the spouse that is doing the rejecting. They are not communicating what the problem is so therefore you have nothing to go by, except - it's me.

I was in the same boat and it crushed my spirit, self-esteem and confidence. So much so that I lost weight, couldn't sleep, had to go on meds, into counseling, etc.

And guess what - it looks like it really wasn't me. It was issues that he didn't want to discuss and get out in the open - mainly that his sex drive has dropped - I had to learn that from his doctor! It took me a while but I'm back to a good place, self-esteem, confidence is right back where it should be.

But my sex life still isn't. But - at least I know what the real issue is and I can work on it with him. 

Women/men that reject their spouse on the sexual front don't realize that we can be patient, less pushy and work "with them" - but we have to know what the actual issues are first.

I find it very selfish, self-centered and inexcusable when a spouse rejects and won't let their partner know why and let them continue to believe that "I'm" the problem, when it's really not the case - not how you should treat someone you love.

Maybe you need to play hard ball and be willing to back it up if there is no change. Life really is too short to deal with someone who is selfish enough to live in their own little world and expect you to deal with it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> PBear,
> 
> Because it induces useless conflict. Essentially I am saying "Magically desire me somehow or I am gone". I would prefer that she actually desires me and if she doesn't or can't then I have to go anyway.
> 
> ...


I don't see it that way, personally... I see it as "Work with me and put in some serious effort into rebuilding our intimacy, or I'm gone". The other option for me would be to just go, which is what I did. My wife's track record in following through on any "fixes" in our relationship was such that I had no faith it would make a difference in 2 months. And I no longer had the emotional energy to invest in beating that horse.

As far as the open marriage thing goes, I'm pretty sure I couldn't have done it, even if my stbx agreed to it. Hell, I barely have time to maintain one relationship, much less more than one. But I'd use it as an eye opener. I wouldn't put a strong likelihood on that approaches success rate, though. Kind of a last ditch effort.

C


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

trey69 said:


> I would be interested in seeing how she would respond if you presented her with a ultimatium. Or maybe not even that, maybe just up and say you've had enough and put your words into action, and see what happens. Sometimes it takes something like this to happen before a person will actually wake up and take into count the seriousness of it all.


:iagree:


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

:iagree:


lastinline said:


> I hear you brother. It isn't about the act as much as it is the emotional connection. My stbx never was able to grasp that essential concept, and it ended up costing us our marriage.
> 
> *I honestly think that habbitually denying yourself to your spouse is one of the most corrosive things you can do to a marriage.It shouts "you are not important to me".* In all fairness though it sounds like she's trying to change, and in truth, that's all you can ask of her. Be sure to have her medically checked out, and I wish you and your marriage the best.
> LIL
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree: THANK YOU!!!:iagree::iagree:


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

magnoliagal and MGirl,

I don't know how to explain it really I guess. She "says" that she likes doing those things but her actions speak louder. She pretty much never initiates it anymore. Certainly nothing "out of the blue". I'm sure if I asked for a BJ she would be "happy" to oblige but I don't have much interest in having to ask for it. As an example on the times she does do it feels like a race to finish rather than actually trying to spend some time and enjoy it.

To me it is kind of like your kid giving you something they baked. You say it is delicious while you are spitting it out in your hand behind your back..

Does that make any sense?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

lastinline said:


> I honestly think that habbitually denying yourself to your spouse is one of the most corrosive things you can do to a marriage.It shouts "you are not important to me".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Maybe, BUT, to the person doing the denying, they probably do not see it like that. They may feel they aren't missing a thing if they don't want it to begin with. 

I would imagine there are lots of people who feel, "you are not important to me" if their spouse isn't doing something they wish they would do. 

I think my main concern with the OP situation is WHY his wife will not tell him what it is thats wrong. I'm sure she didn't just wake up one day and decide to longer have sexual desire for her husband, something is behind it, just not sure what or how to get her to open up to him.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

MWIL,

I have asked them but I don't get any answers. She claims that she just doesn't know and of course I don't believe her so it just becomes a circular "argument".


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> MWIL,
> 
> I have asked them but I don't get any answers. She claims that she just doesn't know and of course I don't believe her so it just becomes a circular "argument".


Put your foot down. Tonight tell her you're leaving. When she says why, tell her you do not know why. Spark that conversation with her. Tell her, if she doesn't know why she feels the way she does, then you do not either, but you can't live like this. I would actually leave though. Not really for long, maybe for the night even, but maybe, just maybe it will spark some kind of conversation from her as to "WHY" she feels the way she does. 

I'm not saying it will work, but it could make it to the point to where she sees you as being serious. If she doesn't even care or it doesn't bother her that you would even leave, (even for the night, which she shouldn't know, BTW) then you might have your answer as to how she truly feels.

You need to do something different than what you normally do. You said yourself things just keep going in circles. You can't keep doing the same things and expect different results.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> magnoliagal and MGirl,
> 
> I don't know how to explain it really I guess. She "says" that she likes doing those things but her actions speak louder. She pretty much never initiates it anymore. Certainly nothing "out of the blue". I'm sure if I asked for a BJ she would be "happy" to oblige but I don't have much interest in having to ask for it. As an example on the times she does do it feels like a race to finish rather than actually trying to spend some time and enjoy it.
> 
> ...


Yes, it makes sense.

Have you written down exactly what you'd like from her? Perhaps it would help you to process clearly what you need from her? Maybe you already did and I missed it...

Ex. 
-I would like my wife to occasionally try new things with me in bed.
-I would like my wife to initiate sexual encounters
-I would like my wife to not "rush" through sex with me, but to enjoy it with me
-I would like my wife to allow me to please her

I've found that when I ask my husband how I can better meet his needs, he gives me very general, vague answers and I don't really know what to do with them. He has specific things in mind, but _he sometimes fails to communicate them with me_ and_ I then fail to meet his expectations _because I never understood what he wanted in the first place. This may not apply to your situation at all, but it's worth mentioning


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

MGirl said:


> Yes, it makes sense.
> 
> Have you written down exactly what you'd like from her? Perhaps it would help you to process clearly what you need from her? Maybe you already did and I missed it...
> 
> ...


I tried that with my wife in the nicest ways and was told "don't expect me to do those things" "you have a fantasy wife in your head and she is not me". So, really, where does that leave me? Its missionery position, no oral, nothing else. She said she can't be the wife I want, yet rages at me for not treating her the way she wants to be treated. The reason I treat her that way is an expression of my frustration and resentment. I know that, yet I am powerless to stop that behaviour since it is a result of not getting what I want. Its a circle sort of like the chicken and the egg.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

frustr8edmartin said:


> I tried that with my wife in the nicest ways and was told "don't expect me to do those things" "you have a fantasy wife in your head and she is not me". So, really, where does that leave me? Its missionery position, no oral, nothing else. She said she can't be the wife I want, yet rages at me for not treating her the way she wants to be treated. The reason I treat her that way is an expression of my frustration and resentment. I know that, yet I am powerless to stop that behaviour since it is a result of not getting what I want. Its a circle sort of like the chicken and the egg.


Where does that leave you? 

It leaves you with a decision to stay or go. It sounds like you have tried many things. 

You might not be able to change her, and make her want you more sexually, or even open up as to why, but you yourself have the choice to staying or leaving. IMO, unless she does a complete turn around for some reason, this is probably how your life will continue to be, unless you choose to leave.


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks. I totally agree and I am struggling with that now. It won't change, and I can either stick with things and learn to suck it up, have an affair to fill that need, or leave. Ann Landers used to say to ask yourself if you would be better of with her, or without her. That is how to decide. I don't know the answer to that question.

If she doesn't change her attitude towards sex, I don't think I can overlook it any more. I can appear to be OK, but deep inside, there will be a hollow. It won't go away unless for some reason, I stop wanted sex altogether too.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

My belief - the best thing to do in this situation is:
- Make yourself more attractive (behavior is the biggest factor - being upbeat, fun to be around, calm and not angry/combative + fitness/clothing). Do not engage in talks about the relationship. If she brings it up - and blameshifts - shut it down and leave the room. If she brings it up and promises to change just say "I look forward to seeing you show your commitment level). Do not talk about how you feel. 

- Dropping the emotional temperature (be less loving - reduce the amount of loving things you do whatever they are including saying ILY, compliments, etc). When she complains - and she will - just look puzzled and say "Those were all things I did because I wanted to, I have simply lost my desire to do them - do you want me to "pretend"?)

This is an unusual behavioral combo in a marriage. The first part tends to convey (without you directly saying it) that you are happy and focused on self improvement. 

The second lets her know that she is becoming steadily less important to you in every sense of the word. 

More attractive, less available. 




frustr8edmartin said:


> Thanks. I totally agree and I am struggling with that now. It won't change, and I can either stick with things and learn to suck it up, have an affair to fill that need, or leave. Ann Landers used to say to ask yourself if you would be better of with her, or without her. That is how to decide. I don't know the answer to that question.
> 
> If she doesn't change her attitude towards sex, I don't think I can overlook it any more. I can appear to be OK, but deep inside, there will be a hollow. It won't go away unless for some reason, I stop wanted sex altogether too.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

frustr8edmartin said:


> I tried that with my wife in the nicest ways and was told "don't expect me to do those things" "you have a fantasy wife in your head and she is not me". So, really, where does that leave me? Its missionery position, no oral, nothing else. She said she can't be the wife I want, yet rages at me for not treating her the way she wants to be treated. The reason I treat her that way is an expression of my frustration and resentment. I know that, yet I am powerless to stop that behaviour since it is a result of not getting what I want. Its a circle sort of like the chicken and the egg.


Frustr8 you in the preverbal stand-off, who is going to blink? Can you be that one? 

Please don't take what I am saying as an insult to you. I only have part of the story and I am telling you what worked for me, a very repressed woman, and my husband. 

I think she is trying so try to greet her efforts with less demands and more appreciation for what she is doing. I think it would be difficult for any woman trying to get back in the grove to be sexually open with an angry, resentful and demanding man. 

She is having sex with you, does that take care of your emotional needs? You want more but do you need it to connect lovingly with your wife. 

Can you start there and slowly build up trust. By trust I mean that you let her know that it is her that you want and not any woman who happens to be available to play out you fantasies. When she says she is not your fantisy wife she may mean that she does not want to be used to play out your fantasies. 

If you seemed interested in her connection with you and mutual pleasure, she would feel you wanted her and she was not interchangable with any set of holes. (please dont be insulted i say that for effect becuase that is how many women think) Women dont like to feel used. 

If they sense that you have a sexual agenda that has nothing to do with your feelings for them, they feel used. Lets say you were interested in connecting with her emotionally and making her happy and feeling loved by you. How would you go about it that is differnt from what you are doing now? 

Suppose when she feels that you love sex with her you let her know that you want to see her lips on your junk because they are that beautiful? You want to give her oral because you love the way she squirms. 

You would be a seductive lover and not a man who is all about what he wants and what he is entitled to have from his wife. See what I mean. You get what you want but you have to go about it by connections not demands. You can't make her do anything but if you are a skilled lover you can make her want to have a more varied sexual experience. 

Don't make it about what you want - if you were having sex with yourself that would work but you need a willing partner so it is only fair that she should expect some input and pleasure. 

That would be the same with a new woman. She may go along with your agenda while she is starry eyed and willing to give because you romance her. 

But when that glow wears off, as it always does, she notices the agenda and may feel that your desire for her not so much for her but to have a woman to act out your fantasies. 

I am not saying this is you but some men are like that and may have been in her past. 

You asked and I told. You can listen to the guys telling you to threaten to leave or cheat or that you deserve this or that. She might do it to keep the man around but she will not put herself into it. Would you gladly do anything so intimate under a threat? 

Seduction works a lot better. What do you think?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank you MEM and magnoliagal for the compliments. 

I am a words of affirmation woman and when I write things down it helps me with my relationship. I know I am on the right track with my man when a fair mined man and woman give me feedback both positive and negative when I needs it. Thanks again.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> magnoliagal and MGirl,
> 
> I don't know how to explain it really I guess. She "says" that she likes doing those things but her actions speak louder. She pretty much never initiates it anymore. Certainly nothing "out of the blue". I'm sure if I asked for a BJ she would be "happy" to oblige but I don't have much interest in having to ask for it. As an example on the times she does do it feels like a race to finish rather than actually trying to spend some time and enjoy it.
> 
> ...


This makes sense but just know sometimes we women can be clueless. Have you told this to her? The reason I say this is I really love sex but haven't been that good at initiating. Bad wife I know. I just never understood until honestly I came here and saw how important it really was. Sure my dh told me but I don't think I really got it until I read how other men felt about it. I had shame I think in wanting my own husband (don't think you have this problem but I do).

I've also been clueless on bj's too. Gosh I can't believe how dumb I was. I can't believe I'd actually forget to do them and he wouldn't ask (I wanted more sex than he did so I wasn't exactly motivated to do bj's - now I see bj's actually lead to more sex. Wow what a concept!). I'd also think the point was to "finish" now I know differently so I take my time.

I know this isn't what your situation is I just wanted to say for me I think I'm doing a good thing and I'm still messing it up like your wife is. And I had no idea because he didn't tell me.

I appreciate reading stories like yours because it helps me understand my own dh.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

I think that you are too emotionally tapped out. You have simply run out patience. You have tried to discuss your feelings to no avail. She refuses to even look at her feelings and yours together. This is a red flag-she seems so indifferent.
Is it possible that you are seeking an exit affair? Are you subconciously trying to destroy your marriage, without leaving? It's quite common for those who no longer wish to be married, to do things in order to push the other spouse into walking away. 
Leaving seems like the best option. It IS easier said than done. Ask for a separation and outline the reasons. Let your wife know that you can't work on these issues alone. She needs to be willing to at least discuss the problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Sonny said:


> These type threads are so depressing because the man tries everything he can think of and almost always gets zero response. If no kids involved I would simply divorce and find a woman that is into connection and into sex. I doubt the OP here will leave and i'm sure his wife doubts it too. Very rarely on here do you see the man actually follow through. it's sad, she kills him inside with her lack of attention to the relationship because her free time is used on much more trivial things like Face book for instance.


Was telling my dh this very thing. How sad these posts are to read. It inspires me to be better. I don't want my dh to ever have to come here and complain on me.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Sonny said:


> These type threads are so depressing because the man tries everything he can think of and almost always gets zero response. If no kids involved I would simply divorce and find a woman that is into connection and into sex. I doubt the OP here will leave and i'm sure his wife doubts it too. Very rarely on here do you see the man actually follow through. it's sad, she kills him inside with her lack of attention to the relationship because her free time is used on much more trivial things like Face book for instance.


He did state his wife was trying, so to me it must not be a total lost cause, even though he may feel frustrated at times. However, he will have to eventually weigh his options if things do not go beyond where they are. Alot of times people don't leave due to several reasons, but if she has alot of good qualities he loves, that outweigh that of what he feels he isn't getting, then he may not leave.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> MWIL,
> 
> I have asked them but I don't get any answers. She claims that she just doesn't know and of course I don't believe her so it just becomes a circular "argument".


So push harder or insist on counseling.

Until you take some type of action, she will not ever consider this a "serious" issue for you.

All talk and no action = no changes.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Sonny said:


> These type threads are so depressing because the man tries everything he can think of and almost always gets zero response. If no kids involved I would simply divorce and find a woman that is into connection and into sex. I doubt the OP here will leave and i'm sure his wife doubts it too. Very rarely on here do you see the man actually follow through. it's sad, she kills him inside with her lack of attention to the relationship because her free time is used on much more trivial things like Face book for instance.


They are depressing.

But remember - many women are also going through the same issue - their husbands are doing the rejecting and everything they try gets zero response.

It happens to both genders, not just men. 

And yes, the lack of attention can kill someone's spirit and self-esteem. And that's what makes leaving so hard, your self-esteem is crushed, hard to get it back up in order to make rational decisions about the situation - you feel stuck.

I know, been there - not going there again.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> They are depressing.
> 
> But remember - many women are also going through the same issue - their husbands are doing the rejecting and everything they try gets zero response.
> 
> ...


Very true. My current partner went through a marriage like that. She did everything she could to entice her ex to "saddle up", to no avail. And years of that did a lot of damage to her self-esteem, as you said.

C


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

The only man who marries a nun is Jesus.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Mrs. G.,

Interesting observation. I think last summer there was a chance that I would have viewed it as an exit affair. I knew I didn't really want to leave her but the sex thing was killing me. I am glad I did not act completely on it, for now she is making an effort.

Quick update:

I have to give her more credit, she is trying. It's "that time of the month" but yesterday she did give me a BJ. Now, the beauty of it was that she did take some time, didn't rush it and actually did some things I have mentioned recently that she has either never done or has not done in a long time. So I am hopeful...

To the others, thanks for everyones responses. It is depressing. I get bummed out reading about all of these issues, whether it is the man or woman. Feeling rejected sucks and I know it.

But, I have to say I have learned a lot from this group. If this is just a short term thing with her trying just to appease me, I think I will go. I do love her deeply but I will NOT go through another 10 years of feeling like a perv or "sex maniac". (Of course that is easier said than done for a "nice guy" )


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*great opportunity*

F8,
A short, upbeat, SHORT, comment to your W about yesterday is a must. Something like: 

I have learned to accept that you can't directly control how much lust/desire you feel. I also want you to know that when you are patient and loving when we connect - like you were yesterday - I feel loved and it strengthens my bond to you. 

Don't get mushy. Just make the statement. This is your way of telling her she can substitute commitment for lust. Because she can. My W has done so on and off for 2 decades. 

She may fitness test you. She may - say something sarcastic like "glad it was good for YOU" - just be prepared. The best answer is the truth. And for you the truth is: "If you would allow, I would happily do that to you - giving you pleasure truly makes me feel good - I hope the same is true for you". 

But fingers crossed - she may respond positively. The key thing is you can never convey the idea that if she doesn't feel lust, eventually you will bail. Because she doesn't directly control it, and she may just give up at that point. 





frustr8dhubby said:


> Mrs. G.,
> 
> Interesting observation. I think last summer there was a chance that I would have viewed it as an exit affair. I knew I didn't really want to leave her but the sex thing was killing me. I am glad I did not act completely on it, for now she is making an effort.
> 
> ...


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Great point, thanks MEM. I did send her a quick text message today saying that I was still thinking about yesterday and how hot it was... But you are right I need to make sure I emphasize that I understand that she cannot control her desire.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

F8,
This is an area where I admit to being unsure as to what "works best" in terms of style. I think telling her it is "hot" is great on the romance side of the house. Telling her about strengthening the "bond" is more intended to address her desire for relationship stability. Two very different things. I guess you can message both. I have no idea which she will respond more strongly to. 

But I would do this in person - and I would make sure to hit both points one after the other - the lack of desire being "not her fault" and the show of commitment being a very powerful thing. 

This creates a "context". And that context going forward is:
- A lack of arousal/desire is no basis for ignoring you as a man. In fact ignoring you as a man shows a lack of commitment to the marriage. 
- Focusing on you as a man, regardless of desire shows commitment and strengthens the marriage.

F8,
This particular dynamic is one that I am very, very experienced with. Two weeks ago my W got that painful inflammation thing "down there" that she gets every once in a while. She has been consistently offering to please me. Totally sincere offers. Almost nightly. The thing is that when she does that, most nights I gently let her off the hook. It is not her fault she is in pain. As her partner my inclination is to be patient when she has a physical condition. 

And this isn't a "game" she is playing. When she offers she means it. And at a certain frequency she becomes insistent and I relent. THAT is where you want to be. Where your W is more focused on your needs, while you are more focused on hers.



frustr8dhubby said:


> Great point, thanks MEM. I did send her a quick text message today saying that I was still thinking about yesterday and how hot it was... But you are right I need to make sure I emphasize that I understand that she cannot control her desire.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> The thing is that when she does that, most nights I gently let her off the hook. It is not her fault she is in pain. As her partner my inclination is to be patient when she has a physical condition.


See now why do you do that? My dh is the same way and I think but I wouldn't have offered if I didn't want to. I'm not like that. If I don't want to I'm not going to bring it up. I don't offer things hoping he'll say no. Doesn't work that way. When I offer a gift I want my dh to take it even if it is nightly and even if I'm in pain. It makes me happy to do it. To see him be appreciative makes it all worth while.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Her: Do you want to make love (but she is in pain - so that really means - do you want a bj)
Me: Doing/saying something so she absolutely feels no guilt for not being a "good wife"

At that point she either accepts my response - or if she truly is driven by a desire to please me instead of guilt - she justs does the alpha "lite" thing and says - "stop talking and strip". 

I never decline when that happens. 



magnoliagal said:


> See now why do you do that? My dh is the same way and I think but I wouldn't have offered if I didn't want to. I'm not like that. If I don't want to I'm not going to bring it up. I don't offer things hoping he'll say no. Doesn't work that way. When I offer a gift I want my dh to take it even if it is nightly and even if I'm in pain. It makes me happy to do it. To see him be appreciative makes it all worth while.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Her: Do you want to make love (but she is in pain - so that really means - do you want a bj)
> Me: Doing/saying something so she absolutely feels no guilt for not being a "good wife"
> 
> At that point she either accepts my response - or if she truly is driven by a desire to please me instead of guilt - she justs does the alpha "lite" thing and says - "stop talking and strip".
> ...


Oh I get it this is nice manspeak. Duly noted. Translation you'd love it but only if we insist. Got it.

I'm just learning so much here. Fabulous!


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## rppearso (Feb 4, 2011)

jezza said:


> 'Bad wife' - not good. Why? Well because she might be 'bad' with the sex role but absolutely fantastic at all the other 'wifey' roles. That doesn't make her an all round 'bad' wife!
> 
> A chef might be rubbish at making pastry but excellent with seafood. Doesn't make him a 'bad' chef...but a good one who is cr&p at pastry!
> 
> ...


A wife that is bad at sex is like a chef who is bad at everything except making a salad. In my opinion there are 2 main things that can make a spouse bad, sex and finances if either of thoes 2 are bad she is a bad wife, if she is a freak in the sheets and then steals your credit card and maxes it out or maxes her own out and then is mopy because of it thats a divorce situation just like if she is super responsible with money but a prude in the bed room thats going to lead to a divorce as well.


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## rppearso (Feb 4, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Her: Do you want to make love (but she is in pain - so that really means - do you want a bj)
> Me: Doing/saying something so she absolutely feels no guilt for not being a "good wife"
> 
> At that point she either accepts my response - or if she truly is driven by a desire to please me instead of guilt - she justs does the alpha "lite" thing and says - "stop talking and strip".
> ...


There are alot times my wife will not be in the mood but always gives me a nice rim job, BJ and swallows with a porn going and gets into it for me and we are both happier afterwards and the evening is a delight, I could not ask for more.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I would love it. But only if doing it is going to make her feel "good". 

As opposed to "not" doing it is going to make her feel bad. So I ensure she can "not" do it, and "not" feel bad by letting her know I am grateful she offered, I love her and I am in no way upset with her because it is not her fault she has pre-menopause related dryness/pain. 




magnoliagal said:


> Oh I get it this is nice manspeak. Duly noted. Translation you'd love it but only if we insist. Got it.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

rppearso said:


> A wife that is bad at sex is like a chef who is bad at everything except making a salad. In my opinion there are 2 main things that can make a spouse bad, sex and finances if either of thoes 2 are bad she is a bad wife, if she is a freak in the sheets and then steals your credit card and maxes it out or maxes her own out and then is mopy because of it thats a divorce situation just like if she is super responsible with money but a prude in the bed room thats going to lead to a divorce as well.


:iagree: I like to spend money, but I would never take Mr.G's credit card without asking. I also refrain from making big purchases without discussing it first.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Mrs. G.,
> 
> Interesting observation. I think last summer there was a chance that I would have viewed it as an exit affair. I knew I didn't really want to leave her but the sex thing was killing me. I am glad I did not act completely on it, for now she is making an effort.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

YES - you will not have to go through this again if you keep appreciating her. I know that men deserve to be treated like the gems they are and sometimes they don't get that. Try not to think of what you deserve and think of what she deserves. You can not help but get this back. 

It takes only one person to change the dynamic. When things seem to be slipping, get back in the groove by appreciating HER.

I don't mean doing dishes and all that s**t, not saying you should not, what I mean is have sex with HER not some vision in your head. If you think you are entitled you forget to be appreciative. 

When in fact who really deserves anything - there are many with far less so we should always be grateful. I am telling you as a woman that is seductive when a man seems to be into the woman as a person just the way she is and I think it does not happen for many men.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I would love it. But only if doing it is going to make her feel "good".
> 
> As opposed to "not" doing it is going to make her feel bad. So I ensure she can "not" do it, and "not" feel bad by letting her know I am grateful she offered, I love her and I am in no way upset with her because it is not her fault she has pre-menopause related dryness/pain.


But see and maybe if this is because I think like a man but if my dh said "oh it's okay you don't have to" I might take him seriously that he really wasn't up for it. Yes I live in a naive world to think that a man might have a day where he didn't want a bj. You are saying that doesn't exist right?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Correct. That does not exist. 

What does exist is this belief that she doesn't really want to do this but feels obligated - thinks I will consider her a sexually lazy wife unless she does. 




magnoliagal said:


> But see and maybe if this is because I think like a man but if my dh said "oh it's okay you don't have to" I might take him seriously that he really wasn't up for it. Yes I live in a naive world to think that a man might have a day where he didn't want a bj. You are saying that doesn't exist right?


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

Hi frustr8dhubby 

I read your post where you said you are doing better than me because you get sex more often. You know, it is not about the physical quantity of sex for me so much as the lack of passion, intimacy and general lack of desire when we DO have sex. You have the same issue. Face it, if you just wanted sex, it seems like your wife gives it to you, so there would be not problem. But it is the emptiness of lack of emotion that is your problem, same as mine. Maybe you get the odd bj which I certainly don't get, but having an emply feeling after it is just marginally better than what I get.

Today, I started looking for a new place to live. My wife and I had a very long talk where I cried like a baby. I told her that I understand what my poor treatment of her does to her self-esteem etc, etc, etc and that I really know I have been a bad husband to treat her that way. Then, I asked her to put herself in the position to understaned how her emotionless sex does the same thing to me. I quoted her from this forum that men feel loved, wanted, important and desired etc by making passionate love with their wife, and that since we don't do that, I feel empty and hollow and that she is making me feel the same way I make her feel. 

I tried to get across to her that it is not the form of abuse but the substance that is the same for both of us. I really don't want to leave my wife, but it sounds like you are ready to do so frustr8dhubby. You said "I think I will go" I feel bad for you in that regard as my wife and I have not gotten to that point yet. Lack of passionate sex is a huge issue for me. Funny, we both love our wives, yet are not able to get past the sex issue. I wish I could just accept it and take the 90% of the rest of the "wifely" things she does well and live with it. The counsellor said not to do that. That is not acceptable. At this time, we are in separate bedrooms and to be honest, its just fine with me as there is no frustration of lying there wanting sex.


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

I tried overlooking the lack of sex because of the amount of good qualities my wife has. It works for a while, but eventually, the resentment at being cheated out of a "sex life" when you are a normal, healthy man takes over. I lost control of my willingness to ignore the lack of sex. It turned into verbal abuse of my wife, which is not acceptable. My wife thinks she is trying too, but trying is not enough. It has to work to be effective. Its just that all of the ironing, praising, cooking etc mean nothing if the man really just wants passion and response from his wife and is not getting it. I feel guilty for not accepting and being satisfied with what my wife offers. I feel horrible that she is trying and it does not satisfy me. Is it enough to divorce over? I don't know. I could get a wife that loves great sex, but charge my cc to the max and cheats on me. What's worse?


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Frustr8 you in the preverbal stand-off, who is going to blink? Can you be that one?
> 
> Please don't take what I am saying as an insult to you. I only have part of the story and I am telling you what worked for me, a very repressed woman, and my husband.
> 
> ...


Well I know that good sex does not begin in the bedroom. It begins before that. I do have a lot to learn in that regard. What do you think are the things I should be doing to "set the stage"? What are the things that would show you your husband values you, respects you and would make you want to please him in bed, and more importantly, please BOTH of you.


I don't listen to the guys telling me to threaten her to leave. I have tried that and she justs considers it empty threats which they are.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You posted above "today I started to look for a new place to live". 

What does "looking for a new place to live" mean?




frustr8edmartin said:


> Well I know that good sex does not begin in the bedroom. It begins before that. I do have a lot to learn in that regard. What do you think are the things I should be doing to "set the stage"? What are the things that would show you your husband values you, respects you and would make you want to please him in bed, and more importantly, please BOTH of you.
> 
> 
> I don't listen to the guys telling me to threaten her to leave. I have tried that and she justs considers it empty threats which they are.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

frustr8edmartin,

I'm not sure if you read my whole post or if you mis-understood it. I am not leaving. My wife is trying hard. What I did say is if this is just a short-term change to pacify me for now, then I will. If she continues to try over the long term I am definitely staying.

Good luck!


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> You posted above "today I started to look for a new place to live".
> 
> What does "looking for a new place to live" mean?


What I mean was that when my wife left the house in the morning, I started getting ideas about moving out and started to check the ads. I even responded to a couple of them. Then, when she came home and we talked, I settled down I bit. I'm still sleeping in another room and we are going to the counsellor today.


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> frustr8edmartin,
> 
> I'm not sure if you read my whole post or if you mis-understood it. I am not leaving. My wife is trying hard. What I did say is if this is just a short-term change to pacify me for now, then I will. If she continues to try over the long term I am definitely staying.
> 
> Good luck!


OK. I feel the same way too. The big question is "will you be happier" if you leave?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Possibly not (even probably not) but at some point I would probably cheat if she stops caring/trying again and I don't think I could live with myself putting her through that.


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## Blue Skye (Apr 22, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Possibly not (even probably not) but at some point I would probably cheat if she stops caring/trying again and I don't think I could live with myself putting her through that.


Does your wife know that's how you feel?


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Yes.


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## Blue Skye (Apr 22, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Yes.


I feel for you. I hope you and your wife will continue to make progress in this area.

There have been a few episodes in our 20 year marriage where my husband probably thought I was a nun too, but we were able to work through them.

Now I understand more about what he really needs and how he feels, and I care enough to meet him halfway even if I may not be "in the mood". I am willing to let him get me there and try and participate fully. It has made a big difference in my marriage. I hope that your wife can come to this realization.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Blue Sky. Me too, thanks. I know it probably doesn't seem like it when talking this way but I really do care greatly for my wife and I want us to be together.


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## frustr8edmartin (Apr 19, 2011)

F8ed. Our situations are so similar. I would probably not be happier on my own either. Its really hard to believe that such a thing (lack of good sex) can taint an otherwise great wife, someone that I have a great time with, someone I want to spend the rest of my life with. Like you, at some point the sex issue will cause such a rift it will not be possible to even accept the good things any more. Sometimes I wish I could just take a pill that would do away with my sex drive. I want to be the good husband my wife deserves and she wants to be the good wife I deserve. We have been talking about this virutually all of our time together the past few days. 

It has taken me 30 years, and this forum, to finally realize that it is this lack of emotion, passion and sex that is causing all the resentment and bitterness and voids my ability to treat my wife with honour and respect. Its awful, but thats the way it is.

I guess it comes down to what is more important out of a marriage, a good, low-maintence wife who puts her family 1st (other than the sex for me, that is), or a wife that loves sex, but cleans out the cash, is nasty to me and otherwise treats me like S***T. I guess I would take the situation I am in now instead. You too I think. We could do worse.

That doesn't make it acceptable but, explains a few things.


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## whammy (Apr 22, 2011)

not to be a jerk...but i dont think you married a nun. ALL WOMEN WANT SEX. your telling me that she wouldnt let brad pitt go down on her???? come on! wake up and get back in the gym...

when men think thier wives dont like sex, they never realize that its because the wives actually just dont want sex with the husbands


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Whammy,

If you have read any of my previous posts, which I assume you have not, you would know that I readily accept that. What I don't know is how to fix it. I am not an Adonis, never have been never will be.

I am working out, trying to be more positive and everything else but I can pretty much guarantee it isn't going to change shxt.


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## zaliblue (Apr 26, 2011)

I have a friend in a similar situation...he only talks about it when he's drinking lol....my hubby and i have a VERY active sex life...and we have been together for 8 years....they have been together for a while, but i dont think thats an excuse. I can't understand why a woman wouldnt want her husband.....maybe im just a horny person lol....even if im not horny, and my hubby wants it, i do it and end up getting into it anyway....but then again my hubby is AMAZING in that department....im not being rude...im just curious...maybe there is something that u are doing that she doesnt like. Sit down with her and have a serious conversation....ask if there is anything that she would like you to change....just an idea....


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

zaliblue,

Thanks and I have asked repeatedly both from a sexual and non-sexual point of view. She claims everything is wonderful.


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## zaliblue (Apr 26, 2011)

maybe she just doesnt want to hurt ur feelings? or maybe she is self-conscience? i think maybe there is an underlying problem...u guys have got to be 100% open with each other....


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## Sharing (Oct 27, 2016)

Why is all the focus on what is wrong with the wife. Have you thought of the idea that maybe you want it too much. Follow me here. Not everyone likes the same amount of stuff. For example, some people drink coffee all day, some just first thing in the a.m. and some not at all. Doesn't mean one is better than the other just different. Sounds like you wife likes coffee but not as much as you like coffee (sex). So your options as I see it are as follows: Find a new wife who like to drink coffee all day or you could adjust to drinking less coffee and keep your current wife. From what you have shared using and using my coffee example it sounds like your wife is trying to like coffee more, but I don't see you trying to drink less coffee so that you can both eventually meet in the middle and enjoy the coffee together. By doing this both parties are having to stretch but you get to keep the wife that you love and enjoy each other in a positive way rather than holding it against her for not liking as much coffee as you do. First step is you need to decide for yourself you may not want to compromise. Second step talk to wifey in a kind manner and share with her that you are willing to drink less coffee if she would be willing to drink more. 3rd establish/define how many cups of coffee you can both handle and not be resentful. Marriage isn't just about sex all the time it is about compromise. Hormones change, children change women and responsibilities make it harder to be as carefree as one was when you were dating. So get real, stop looking at her and examine yourself first. Putting your mate 1st is truly what a good spouse is all about.


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## Sharing (Oct 27, 2016)

Why is all the focus on what is wrong with the wife. Have you thought of the idea that maybe you want it too much. Follow me here. Not everyone likes the same amount of stuff. For example, some people drink coffee all day, some just first thing in the a.m. and some not at all. Doesn't mean one is better than the other just different. Sounds like your wife likes coffee but not as much as you like coffee (sex). So your options as I see it are as follows: Find a new wife who like to drink coffee all day or you could adjust to drinking less coffee and keep your current wife. From what you have shared and using my coffee example it sounds like your wife is trying to like coffee more, but I don't see you trying to drink less coffee so that you can both eventually meet in the middle and enjoy the coffee together. By doing this both parties are having to stretch but you get to keep the wife that you love and enjoy each other in a positive way rather than holding it against her for not liking as much coffee as you do. First step is you need to decide for yourself what you are willing to do. You may not want to compromise. Second step talk to wifey in a kind manner and share with her that you are willing to drink less coffee if she would be willing to drink more. 3rd establish/define how many cups of coffee you can both handle and not be resentful. Marriage isn't just about sex all the time it is about compromise. Hormones change, children change women and responsibilities make it harder to be as carefree as one was when you were dating. So get real, stop looking at her and examine yourself first. Putting your mate 1st is truly what a good spouse is all about.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Sharing said:


> Why is all the focus on what is wrong with the wife. Have you thought of the idea that maybe you want it too much. Follow me here. Not everyone likes the same amount of stuff. For example, some people drink coffee all day, some just first thing in the a.m. and some not at all. Doesn't mean one is better than the other just different. Sounds like your wife likes coffee but not as much as you like coffee (sex). So your options as I see it are as follows: Find a new wife who like to drink coffee all day or you could adjust to drinking less coffee and keep your current wife. From what you have shared and using my coffee example it sounds like your wife is trying to like coffee more, but I don't see you trying to drink less coffee so that you can both eventually meet in the middle and enjoy the coffee together. By doing this both parties are having to stretch but you get to keep the wife that you love and enjoy each other in a positive way rather than holding it against her for not liking as much coffee as you do. First step is you need to decide for yourself what you are willing to do. You may not want to compromise. Second step talk to wifey in a kind manner and share with her that you are willing to drink less coffee if she would be willing to drink more. 3rd establish/define how many cups of coffee you can both handle and not be resentful. Marriage isn't just about sex all the time it is about compromise. Hormones change, children change women and responsibilities make it harder to be as carefree as one was when you were dating. So get real, stop looking at her and examine yourself first. Putting your mate 1st is truly what a good spouse is all about.


In this particular case the coffee has gone stale. Been expired for about 5 years.
I hear zombies like this sort of coffee, so all is not lost. :grin2:


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

UMP said:


> In this particular case the coffee has gone stale. Been expired for about 5 years.
> I hear zombies like this sort of coffee, so all is not lost. :grin2:


You have to admit, it's the right time of the year for zombie threads.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Sharing said:


> Why is all the focus on what is wrong with the wife. *Have you thought of the idea that maybe you want it too much. Follow me here. Not everyone likes the same amount of stuff. For example, some people drink coffee all day, some just first thing in the a.m. and some not at all. Doesn't mean one is better than the other just different. Sounds like your wife likes coffee but not as much as you like coffee (sex). * So your options as I see it are as follows: Find a new wife who like to drink coffee all day or you could adjust to drinking less coffee and keep your current wife. From what you have shared and using my coffee example it sounds like your wife is trying to like coffee more, but I don't see you trying to drink less coffee so that you can both eventually meet in the middle and enjoy the coffee together. By doing this both parties are having to stretch but you get to keep the wife that you love and enjoy each other in a positive way rather than holding it against her for not liking as much coffee as you do. First step is you need to decide for yourself what you are willing to do. You may not want to compromise. Second step talk to wifey in a kind manner and share with her that you are willing to drink less coffee if she would be willing to drink more. 3rd establish/define how many cups of coffee you can both handle and not be resentful. Marriage isn't just about sex all the time it is about compromise. Hormones change, children change women and responsibilities make it harder to be as carefree as one was when you were dating. So get real, stop looking at her and examine yourself first. Putting your mate 1st is truly what a good spouse is all about.


This just means they should have never gotten married..NOT Compatible at all = a life of misery.. I remember this poster, read many of his posts.... and quite frankly.. I hope he divorced her.. I felt so bad for him... just saying..


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

More Brains


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Sharing said:


> Why is all the focus on what is wrong with the wife. Have you thought of the idea that maybe you want it too much.


Even though this is a zombie thread from 2011, I agree wholeheartedly.

Just reading this from the OPs first post pretty much says it all:



> Now granted I have an *over the top drive* and would try just about ANYTHING with her so there is a big gap there but I'd be happy with a little variety.


Sounds like the poor woman was constantly being leg humped by a dog in heat.


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