# Stupid stuff she says...



## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

I haven't posted in a long while because the responses usually make me more upset then they help. They do make me try to have conversations with my wife, but thise never turn out well. IMO, when I bring up sex in our relationship, she says the stupidest stuff.

Some examples...

A few months ago, she pointed out that we haven't had sex in a while. Ok. She brought it up, good right? No. The first thing she says is... "well, it's worked out well for me, but we haven't had sex in a while." The implication is she's only doing it as a sacrifice. 

Her goto excuse for no sex is "it's not a priority".

The other day, I brought up the fact that I haven't had oral in over a year. She denied it and said it hadn't been that long, but it has. I remember the last time. So i'm kind of further irritated when she says "If I give you oral, I can't watch TV while we're doing it". 

When we have sex, she always brings up unrelated conversations about our parents, of family. No focus on us. She will give me a quick kiss, but no passionate kissing. She wants to be on her back only. It takes a lot to get her to switch it up and when she does, she complains about having to do "this". Like her on top. I'm not asking for some wierd stuff.

Her excuses drive me crazy. Either I'm hungry, or I just ate. I'm tired or I just woke up. It's as if she doesn't even care to come up with a good excuse. 

She gets insulted when I bring up sex to discuss. Insulted I'm calling her unfullfilling, which she is. 

So I have to bring it up, I have to discuss it with her, but everytime I do she will say the stupidest stuff. Stuff that makes me now want to have sex. We've gone from twice a week to once a month. And no excitement unless I really push. Throught which she seems to complain. 

That said, when we have sex, she usually enjoys it. I'll suggest oral for her and she'll orgasm and talk about how it was good. But next time around, it'll be like pulling teeth. 

How do i address it without getting upset when she says her stupid stuff?


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Life is short. Get in the best shape of your life and do what makes you happy. And if that means finding a better partner who you can have sex more than 12x a year, then do it. Hell, I've had sex more than 12 times in the last week. And my relationship has major issues. 

Just keep asking yourself... "Is the ****ing I'm getting worth the ****ing I'm taking."

One Life. Don't waste it.

To answer your question directly. Next time she says something stupid, respond with: "Wife, you are replaceable and I'll go find someone that actually wants to suck my **** and let me put it in them in every day. Are you having an affair, do you not find me attractive, or are you not a sexual person anymore? Let me know so I can make a decision to make me happy."


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Are you sure she is enjoying it? Talking about stuff, wanting to watch tv during and flat on her back, quick pecks don't sound like a woman enjoying herself. Even just having an oral O doesn't mean it was overall really great and enjoyable for her. 

I'm not saying it's on you. You'd love to do whatever you could to please her but you can't. 

It just sounds like she doesn't like sex.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

We have kids. To me, sex is important. Not as important as raising my kids in their s house!hold as it is. No divorce or cheating until the kids are older, if it comes to that. 

Sure she's enjoying it? No. Doesn't seem so. She's probably embarassed, so she just plays along. It still sucks.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> So i'm kind of further irritated when she says "If I give you oral, I can't watch TV while we're doing it".


Saying stupid stuff is usually just a matter of thoughtlessness. Bad, but understandably human--we all do it.

The phrase you used above however screams disrespect. That's a step beyond saying something stupid.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

lessthennone said:


> When we have sex, she always brings up unrelated conversations about our parents, of family. No focus on us.


No lie, I was once enjoying a nice intimate moment with my wife and she looked at me and asked if the termite certification on our house was being kept up to date. So I know exactly how that feels!

Long story short... If you want to get better at turning your wife on, you also have to get good at turning her brain off! So when you are getting intimate, learn the fine arts of playful redirection and distraction to get her mind overwhelmed so that she will have no other choice but to focus on you. Here are some things that help:

aromatherapy - drastically change the smell in your bedroom/house (new detergents/candles)
lighting - something that changes color and flashes (disco lights)
sound - music to relax
touch - try out some new silk/satin sheets on your bed
temperature - cool down the bedroom to induce snuggling
location - mix that up as well

Usually a variation on just one or two of these will be enough to overwhelm your wife's senses so that thoughts of family and laundry to stop bouncing around in her head. 

Good luck, 
Badsanta


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

badsanta said:


> No lie, I was once enjoying a nice intimate moment with my wife and she looked at me and asked if the termite certification on our house was being kept up to date. So I know exactly how that feels!
> 
> Long story short... If you want to get better at turning your wife on, you also have to get good at turning her brain off! So when you are getting intimate, learn the fine arts of playful redirection and distraction to get her mind overwhelmed so that she will have no other choice but to focus on you. Here are some things that help:
> 
> ...


But WAS the termite certification being kept up to date?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> Life is short. Get in the best shape of your life and do what makes you happy. And if that means finding a better partner who you can have sex more than 12x a year, then do it. Hell, I've had sex more than 12 times in the last week. And my relationship has major issues.
> 
> Just keep asking yourself... "Is the ****ing I'm getting worth the ****ing I'm taking."
> 
> ...


Uh, OK..

Yes, I see this clear.

Your first and your last words to her.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> But WAS the termite certification being kept up to date?


Yes, our home had just been inspected just two days ago, but my wife never saw the paperwork that I placed with our other documents.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

GuyInColorado said:


> Life is short. Get in the best shape of your life and do what makes you happy. And if that means finding a better partner who you can have sex more than 12x a year, then do it. Hell, I've had sex more than 12 times in the last week. And my relationship has major issues.
> 
> Just keep asking yourself... "Is the ****ing I'm getting worth the ****ing I'm taking."
> 
> ...


To be fair, your situation is VERY different in that your very unhealthy girlfriend needs to do what you say or her and her children are homeless. 

It's not a typical situation or one that can be used in a marriage. 

Anyone who _could _leave would tell you to go F yourself and walk out if you said something like that to them.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Women who enjoy it don't tend to make excuses for why they can't do it again after a reasonable amount of time to recover.

So she doesn't enjoy it and probably fakes an orgasm.

The key is to find out why and whether there's anything you can do about it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree with lifeistooshort. 

And it is very difficult to try to figure out what and how she would like it and why she doesn't when you have little-no wiggle room in what you can and can't do.

All the other needs are met and marriage is typically happy, chores split, family duties split, time alone together? Date nights? If you can rule out relationship problems leading to sexual problems, 

was there ever a time she was really excited about sex and wanted to do it, wanted to try new things? or is this how she has always been?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Just say, don't worry, my next girlfriend will be happy to step in. Then shut up, look at her and smile.
(you do not have to have someone else, but the suggestion should get her wheels a-turning)


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

And then what? He doesn't listen to her or stops doing something she likes and she tells him "that's ok, my next boyfriend will do it for me"

Saying you'll find someone else to sleep with isn't going to get her into the mood. He's not ready to divorce. The only time he should go extreme is if he's actually ready and willing to follow through. 

I will leave if this isn't fixed. And then actually leave if it's not fixed. 

Pretend threats and trying to scare her into sex isn't going to do anything but guarantee she won't be doing any of it with him for a long time.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And then what? He doesn't listen to her or stops doing something she likes and she tells him "that's ok, my next boyfriend will do it for me"
> 
> Saying you'll find someone else to sleep with isn't going to get her into the mood. He's not ready to divorce. The only time he should go extreme is if he's actually ready and willing to follow through.
> 
> ...


Or she'll give in some to shut him up and then he'll be back here complaining that it's duty sex and she doesn't desire him. 

Snarky comments and *****ing accomplish nothing.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Anyone who _could _leave would tell you to go F yourself and walk out if you said something like that to them.





SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Pretend threats and trying to scare her into sex isn't going to do anything but guarantee she won't be doing any of it with him for a long time.


Not that any of this is not true. in fact I agree it will do nothing to bring her back into the marriage. BUT, but, how would theses terrible consequences be any different from the life he is living now? Yes he would soon be Single if he threatens her, but is he already single?

Now me personally, I'm not happy with the frequency of sex in my relationship (6-7 x per month). But if I had to give up one time per month it wouldn't be a great loss. All our OP is risking is one time per month. So what if he is determined to keep the family together, will it be harder with no sex, than with monthly Duty sex? or will it be easier? No expectations, no conversations about sex, no Stupid excuses. No threats or leverage. Just a soccer calendar to coordinate and a mortgage to keep paid. Isn't that what she wants anyway? Why not let her choose it?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> Not that any of this is not true. in fact I agree it will do nothing to bring her back into the marriage. BUT, but, how would theses terrible consequences be any different from the life he is living now? Yes he would soon be Single if he threatens her, but is he already single?
> 
> Now me personally, I'm not happy with the frequency of sex in my relationship (6-7 x per month). But if I had to give up one time per month it wouldn't be a great loss. All our OP is risking is one time per month. So what if he is determined to keep the family together, will it be harder with no sex, than with monthly Duty sex? or will it be easier? No expectations, no conversations about sex, no Stupid excuses. No threats or leverage. Just a soccer calendar to coordinate and a mortgage to keep paid. Isn't that what she wants anyway? Why not let her choose it?


I would agree if he was ready to divorce but he said that isn't an option for him until the kids are grown. Fake threats are just damaging when you don't back them up. 

Personally I'd be ok saying to fix it or I leave, but if that isn't where OP is then he'd do more harm than good


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Are you sure she is enjoying it? Talking about stuff, wanting to watch tv during and flat on her back, quick pecks don't sound like a woman enjoying herself. Even just having an oral O doesn't mean it was overall really great and enjoyable for her.
> 
> I'm not saying it's on you. You'd love to do whatever you could to please her but you can't.
> 
> It just sounds like she doesn't like sex.


No, she doesn't like sex - WITH HIM.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

ReturntoZero said:


> No, she doesn't like sex - WITH HIM.


Could be. Which actually may be more fixable than not wanting sex at all. Not necessarily a bad thing even though I'm sure it hurts like hell to think about. 

Just LD, she'd always be LD, isn't fixable. Compromising duty sex is the best case (and that is a crappy one)

Situational LD has a chance to be fixed depending on the situation.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Could be. Which actually may be more fixable than not wanting sex at all. *Not necessarily a bad thing* even though I'm sure it hurts like hell to think about.
> 
> Just LD, she'd always be LD, isn't fixable. Compromising duty sex is the best case (and that is a crappy one)
> 
> Situational LD has a chance to be fixed depending on the situation.


Uh, Im sure its a bad thing FOR HIM.

Dont see how that really helps or matters to OP. "Well its not that my wife doesnt like sex, she just doesnt want to have sex with me". 

And hopefully the situational LD wouldnt be because he doesnt look like an extra from 300. Still doesnt help him much.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Returntozero wrote, *No, she doesn't like sex - WITH HIM.*

Yes we here it time and time again a wife completely dislikes sex until someone other than her husband starts turning her on. 

The fact that the answers you get keep changing likely means she does not want to tell you the real reason. She is withholding the truth on one of the most important aspects of your relationship. 

You might want to put a camera in your bedroom or something to determine if she is masturbating when you are not around, her comment about wanting sex when you are at work might be a clue. 

Is she emotionally involved with someone else? Doe she have ex'es for whom an ember still burns?

Perhaps it's not so much that she became a Mother as it is that you became a Father and she stopped seeing you as a lover. 

Tamat


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

So I sit here reading these reply's to a post that I have yet to read but it is a common problem. He isn't getting anysex and she really doesn't have a reason or he is getting some but it is duty sex and as a result boring. 
I have been married off and on since 1973 and I have also dated a good many women before 1st wife and while between wives and have had opportunities with women while married but I didn't cheat. I am an average looking man never been really overweight nver thought of myself as particularly attractive but I have never had trouble finding a woman and Attractive woman. Anyone that knows me knows that my major character flaw is that I am shallow.  It is easy to find women if you are gainfully employed, not a jailbird, not a drugie or a drunk and have your own place and keep it reasonably neat. In other words you are a responsible functioning adult with money in the bank and it doesn't have to be a lot.
That guy is a rare thing in today's society. Oh and it helps if you are not a jackass but no one is perfect. I know several attractive women who are looking for a guy who will just be nice to them. I have had problems in my marriage but am not having any now. I do understand how frustrating it can be when you have that hungry allover feeling and nothing to satisfy it. I didn't threaten my wife with an affair but she did get the message that it was a possibility if things didn't change.
You need to convey that message....... nothing gets the wifes attention than another woman sniffing around what is her's


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Could be. Which actually may be more fixable than not wanting sex at all. Not necessarily a bad thing even though I'm sure it hurts like hell to think about.
> 
> Just LD, she'd always be LD, isn't fixable. Compromising duty sex is the best case (and that is a crappy one)
> 
> Situational LD has a chance to be fixed depending on the situation.


We see that statement quite often. "She's not interested in sex."

Let's do a hypothetical... let's say Brad Pitt is standing there with her - interested in sex. Is she still LD?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Brad Pitt isn't looking so hot these days but I do understand the point. 

The question would be, if she was married to Brad Pitt for x amount of years would she still want to have sex with him? 

Even LD people can want sex for short amounts of time. 

New relationship energy is like a drug. Makes you want sex. This is why they say to try to keep up those new relationship ideas. Dating, impressing, physical appertaining, talking, alone time. 

If she ever enjoyed sex with the OP is important. If she's always been this way there is not a good chance she'll change now.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

“If he wanted me, even if it was only for one night, I was ready to give up everything…"

Alice Harford (Nicole Kidman), referring to a handsome Naval Captain she met on Cape Cod...while a mother and married to the eminently handsome and successful Dr. Harford (none other than sexiest man alive, Tom Cruise).

Kubrick was genius. He so perfectly exposes what is for many a deep-seated human fear. How many of our wives would risk it all if the right guy is able to push the right button at the right time? (and yes, we've long accepted that many men could also be so easily swayed).

That the actual cheating never took place is irrelevant--had the opportunity presented itself, it would have. Intent in this case is more meaningful than actual action.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

You should tell her that you did not get married to be celibate, other wise you would have joined the priesthood....although if father Ralph de Bricassart can get Rachel ward in the thorn birds maybe being a priest is not a bad gig....regardless here is my main point....you need to ask her....am I important to you....if I am then why would you not want to do this for me if I think it is important to me.
Basically sh is telling you your not important to her.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Sounds greatly like she gets her jollies off just watching you suffer!

There's a remedy for it, but it takes a divorce filing to get it into full synchronization!*


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

And the excuses get worse... Last night... I tried, but she was watching TV. Her excuse was she was about to go up to bed. When I said, OK, if your tired, then go up; I could see she wasn't tired. But since I mentioned going up, she had to leave the room and pretend she was tired. She went into the kitchen, out on the porch, came back and watched some TV, and eventually went up.


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

The excuses are pretty common. I'm exhausted, I worked today, I have gas, I have heartburn, I have to get up early, I'm asleep by the time you come to bed, the kids might hear us. The preemptive strikes usually start about an hour before her bedtime. It's gotta be stressful for them. Why cant she just say "I'm not really interested in having sex and this is why". I mean, be honest and expect just as long of a list of disappointments from my end. I think at some point it's best to stop initiating. Get used to the fact that things probably won't change.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

lessthennone said:


> And the excuses get worse... Last night... I tried, but she was watching TV. Her excuse was she was about to go up to bed. When I said, OK, if your tired, then go up; I could see she wasn't tired. But since I mentioned going up, she had to leave the room and pretend she was tired. She went into the kitchen, out on the porch, came back and watched some TV, and eventually went up.


How are you trying? If she's sitting there watching tv and you just out of the blue ask for sex or start groping her that's unlikely to get a yes, from a lot of women. 

I think there needs to be enough communication that she doesn't need an "excuse" and to pretend that she's tired. 

"If you don't want to have sex, just say you don't want to have sex"


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

lessthennone said:


> Her goto excuse for no sex is "it's not a priority".



See, I think what you have is a basic communication problem. You see "it's not a priority" as an excuse for why she doesn't want to have sex at a given moment. But it's not. It's a statement of fact. A fact that is not dependent on a moment or a situation or particular circumstances. To your wife, a mutually fulfilling sex life with you is not a priority. Period. Full stop. It is not a priority. Your wife has clearly stated what the issue is - sex is not a priority. You have failed to hear, understand, and/or believe her. 

I think what you need to do is to is acknowledge that sex is not a priority for her, but then ask her if you are a priority. If you are, then the two of you are going to have to figure out a way for both of your needs to be met within the marriage. Marriage counselling, books, workshops, whatever it takes to rekindle the spark that keeps the two of you meeting each other's needs - including that mutually fulfilling sexual relationship that is a priority for you. 

If you are _not_ a priority, then you're going to have to decide if you're willing to live in a sexless marriage with someone who doesn't care about you for the long haul.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

What have I tried...
Increasing date nights, having kids watched, helping more around house, trying to talk about it, therapy, making more recreational time for her, vacations, porn, etc... Basically, all the stuff all of the books suggest.

Also, lots of other specific stuff which seemed to be a response to her current excuse. But if the excuses are all BS, then it's all for nothing. And maybe counterproductive. She's happy to talk about how much better it is, but it's not.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

In what ways are you initiating sex? Just asking for it or starting to touch her while watching tv?


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

So I listened to the pocast she was litening to. It basically said, just do it. No excuses. Do it and make it exciting. I thought it was good. After years of assuming the love/intimacy premise is correct, it said sometimes people don't want to connect love/lust. Kind of the opposite of what some books say. And I do get the feeling this is the case with her.

The most effective thing I've tried was watching porn together. Nothing has been as effective as that. She literally gets excited and we have great sex. But it's been a few years since she's been willing to watch again. 

But, that doesn't mean she's willing to make the effort.

Also, I try to discuss this with her, but she says ends up crying withing minutes of me bringing it up. And I'm not accusitory. I just ask open ended questions. Stuff I read in the books. 

She says it's not a priority. What she means is it's not worth making any effort.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

How do I initiate...

Most often, it is after the kids go to bed, and I just outright ask. But I can see that just gets me duty sex.

The bigger problem is that if I lay the groundwork earlier in the day, it doesn't translate to the moment. Lots of kissing and hugging and talk all day just makes me more resentful when she gives me the excuse. I joke that I have more rainchecks then days of my life left.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes to just do it but also yes to getting her in the mood beforehand and watching your timing. 
Porn worked because it got her in the mood. What do you do to get her in the mood?

ETA I didn't see your last response before this one. 

Just asking is very unlikely to work. 

Kissing and hugging and stuff, depends really on what she likes. Some women like a more aggressive approach, some like a soft romantic one. Some don't want to feel like you're doing those things just to get sex and it kind of ruins the mood. 

Figuring out what gets her in the mood and if she can get in the mood with you is important but I'd stop just asking for sex cause it's really unattractive


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> So I listened to the pocast she was litening to. It basically said, just do it. No excuses. Do it and make it exciting. I thought it was good. After years of assuming the love/intimacy premise is correct, it said sometimes people don't want to connect love/lust. Kind of the opposite of what some books say. And I do get the feeling this is the case with her.
> 
> The most effective thing I've tried was watching porn together. Nothing has been as effective as that. She literally gets excited and we have great sex. But it's been a few years since she's been willing to watch again.
> 
> ...


Still not clear on how you're initiating. Paint the picture for us. Is it primarily verbal? Are you just going straight for removing clothes? Walk in the room naked?

Context is everything, even when you decide to just go for it. Attacking can be fun, but if you attack in the wrong situational context it's just going to blow up in your face.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

So I guess I just threatened her... I was upset and said "Just understand what you are risking." She didn't take it well. 

Nothing helps, but I'm always afraid everything makes it worse.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Here's the problem with just asking while she's watching tv- 

She's at 0. No sexual interest right now. 
You asking if she wants to go have sex might as well ask if she wants to go run a marathon. 

For a woman to go from 0-enjoying sex is very difficult and likely why she isn't enjoying it. 

Asking for sex is a turn off. Too many times of you doing that chips little bits off her attraction for you. 

You really can't expect her to want to turn off her show and run upstairs to have sex with you especially when the sex you have isn't enjoyable for her. 

How much non-genital foreplay do you do first? This is stuff before you're touching her vagina.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Initiating depends on the circumstance, but here are the most typical in order....

We're both on the sofa watching TV. I outright ask using our codeword. This gets me the usual boring no kiss, "don't take too long", "get it over with quick sex". Yes, she says those things during.

Sometimes, I'll walk over and start rubbing her neck or giving her a head massage; most of the time she gives me the "oh ****, he wants sex" look. Then we proceed to have the same type of sex above.

Post date night, she usually just hides so I can't make a move. Sometimes, she's too drunk to actually do anything. Other times, I just get an excuse. 

Last night, I just walked over to her and started kissing her. Then moved on to head and neck massage. Eventually, I got on top of her and took both of our pants off. But as I continued, she just stopped returning the kisses and started paying more attention to the TV. Eventually, I said, "I can see your not into it" and gave up.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Was it something she was actually watching beforehand? 
Timing is your friend. 
Next time after the show is over, take the remote and turn the tv off. Then start kissing and stuff. 

Wait until she is very turned on before you start anything vaginal. My bf waits until I am literally squirming and it makes it amazing. 

Any rushing or feeling like they want to get to piv too quickly sends me right back to 0.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lessthennone said:


> Initiating depends on the circumstance, but here are the most typical in order....
> 
> We're both on the sofa watching TV. I outright ask using our codeword. This gets me the usual boring no kiss, "don't take too long", "get it over with quick sex". Yes, she says those things during.
> 
> ...


This woman is not into you at all. I'm not trying to be mean... but seriously. This is not what mutual attraction and connection looks like. It's my opinion that initiating in a different way, at a different time, isn't going to change this fact one bit.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

lessthennone said:


> So I guess I just threatened her... I was upset and said "Just understand what you are risking." She didn't take it well.
> 
> Nothing helps, but I'm always afraid everything makes it worse.


That's never a good sign and I can tell how bad you feel about all of this. Instead of threatening how about taking some time to yourself and write a list of what sort of relationship characteristics you'd ideally want in a perfect world. Then talk with your wife about those priorities and see if she see's a place for herself in your desires, or whether you two really aren't a good match. Ask her to do the same. That should at least open up some communication and let you both make calm decisions about whether your future is together or separate. 

There were a few times back when I was married that my wife's actions were not conducive to the direction I wanted our marriage to go. I always just had a conversation with her about what she was doing and how that would lead us down a certain path, and then asked if that was the direction she wanted to go knowing the likely outcomes, or if she'd rather do things differently and have a different set of likely outcomes. Then I let her decide what she wanted. Usually, she realized her decisions weren't the best choices and then changed to ones that we both felt was the best. I tried to always be non-judgmental so she knew that she had the freedom to do whatever it was that she wanted, as long as she was willing to accept the outcomes. You could try something similar with your wife to get her to talk and think about the future that her choices are setting her up for. If I was in your shoes I'd have had that type of conversation then if things didn't change, I'd at least know it was a conscious decision on her part and she was OK with the outcome; then I would divorce her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She tells you it's not a priority dude. It's not going to be a priority, at least she is not lying to you. She has said your needs are not a priority. You have to decide if this is good enough or not?


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

From what you have written, if everything you have done so far is not working, then maybe it's time to stop all the "extra" stuff to get your wife to notice you.

What you can do is to take all that energy and turn it on you and your kids.

Focus on being the "best" you can be and give all your energy to your kids.

It won't make your wife want you but at least you can avoid some disappointment when you don't get the sex/love/etc. that you want in the first place.

Good luck.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

I do try to have those conversations. As recently as yesterday when we discussed the podcast. Problem is she always plays the victim of some terrible life. And ends up crying without me raising my voice or anything. I believe it's guilt. 

So after my blowup earlier, she was trying to call me. I was busy at work, so i couldn't answer. She asked if we should schedule it and what I thought about that. Not quite having calmed down, my response was "Maybe she has to start trying instead of giving membull**** excuses." Her next text was 9pm tonight, no TV. So well see how it goes. It could work out tonight, but in past experinces it tends to be a oneoff.

For the above person asking about making her really excited with foreplay, I try. The only thing that had worked was porn. And it leads to good passionate sex. Otherwise, I cannot keep her attention long enough to get there.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think you need to start working on accepting that she isn't into you and will never change. Then you need to really work on owning your choice to stay or go based on that knowledge. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

lessthennone said:


> I do try to have those conversations. As recently as yesterday when we discussed the podcast. Problem is she always plays the victim of some terrible life. And ends up crying without me raising my voice or anything. I believe it's guilt.
> 
> So after my blowup earlier, she was trying to call me. I was busy at work, so i couldn't answer. She asked if we should schedule it and what I thought about that. Not quite having calmed down, my response was "Maybe she has to start trying instead of giving membull**** excuses." Her next text was 9pm tonight, no TV. So well see how it goes. It could work out tonight, but in past experinces it tends to be a oneoff.
> 
> For the above person asking about making her really excited with foreplay, I try. The only thing that had worked was porn. And it leads to good passionate sex. Otherwise, I cannot keep her attention long enough to get there.




It's called reset sex. It's always temporary. She's trying to reset you to the status quo. Is that what you want?

Frankly your best chance lies in refusing the reset and starting to detach in a big way. Stop hanging out at home. Become the refuser. Change the chaser and chaseie roles. 

Spend most of your free time on hobbies or with friends. Stop inviting her or including her. Mostly ignore her. No favors or housework. But the best that will come of it is a longer reset. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

@lessthennone

You cannot win unless they let you.

You have the Pogo Stick, they have the Recreation room. The only place you can morally use it in.

When you have to barter, banter, bargain for it's use. You have already lost the life-lease on that warm place.
...................................................................................
Where am I going with this?

A place that you must decide for yourself. 

Too good to stay.
Too bad to remain.

Which is it?

Your' answer below, is your answer...to date.



> We have kids. To me, sex is important. Not as important as raising my kids in their s house!hold as it is. No divorce or cheating until the kids are older, if it comes to that.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

lessthannone,

The basic issue is honesty, and the truth may be too painful for her to tell you and might only come out when she is angry with you.

The truth might also never come out if she has decided to take it to the grave with her and she has decided to stonewall you indefinitely. 

Tamat


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

TAMAT said:


> lessthannone,
> 
> The basic issue is honesty, and the truth may be too painful for her to tell you and might only come out when she is angry with you.
> 
> The truth might also never come out if she has decided to take it to the grave with her and she has decided to stonewall you indefinitely.



She flat out _told_ him that sex with him is not a priority. What more truth needs to come out?


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> I do try to have those conversations. As recently as yesterday when we discussed the podcast. Problem is she always plays the victim of some terrible life. And ends up crying without me raising my voice or anything. I believe it's guilt.


She is manipulating you brother. A quick "the victim crap your spewing has gotten really old and doesn't work anymore. If your life is so terrible, there is the door. Go make it better without me. Noone is gonna stop you." 



lessthennone said:


> So after my blowup earlier, she was trying to call me. I was busy at work, so i couldn't answer. She asked if we should schedule it and what I thought about that. Not quite having calmed down, my response was "Maybe she has to start trying instead of giving membull**** excuses." Her next text was 9pm tonight, no TV. So well see how it goes. It could work out tonight, but in past experinces it tends to be a oneoff.


Accept it as scheduled but try to really tune in to what is going on with her. You seem to figure out pretty quickly if she is into it or not. If she even hints at not really wanting to be there either tonight or in the future, DO NOT CONTINUE! Tell her your not into pity sex, get up, go take a shower, put some nice clothes on and leave the house. Go get a beer or something. If she asks you where you are going be frank with her that since you aren't a priority for her, it is really none of her business. Ignore her calls, ignore her texts. 

If her bad behavior continues a move to the guest room might be in order. Start pulling away. Stop doing the extras that you do for her. Stop watching tv with her. Stop providing emotional support. Start saying "no". Don't be rude, don't be angry. Just deprioritize her and prioritize you. 



lessthennone said:


> For the above person asking about making her really excited with foreplay, I try. The only thing that had worked was porn. And it leads to good passionate sex. Otherwise, I cannot keep her attention long enough to get there.


If you want her to watch porn then make it happen. Don't let her dictate what you watch. And like I said, if her attention ever goes elsewhere that a quick redirect doesn't cure, then shut the whole thing down. Disengage. Don't talk about it, just move onto something else, somewhere else. 

Let us know how it goes tonight.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Rowan said:


> She flat out _told_ him that sex with him is not a priority. What more truth needs to come out?


My hope is that it was an inarticulate excuse. My fear is that she was saying exactly what she meant. Either way, it's the perfect example of the "stupid stuff" she says. She has expresses the desire to improve it, but never put any effort in whatsoever. All the effort has been on my part. I've realized that there is nothing I can do or change to improve it. If it's going to improve, it's on her. 

Basically, I'm calling her out on her BS excuses from now on. Maybe it'll help, maybe not. 

This has been going on for over 7 years. And yes, I have tried pulling back. Did the MMSLP. Read a million other books. Ones for men, women, religious, etc... It's not my fault, it's my problem.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's called reset sex. It's always temporary. She's trying to reset you to the status quo. Is that what you want?
> 
> Frankly your best chance lies in refusing the reset and starting to detach in a big way. Stop hanging out at home. Become the refuser. Change the chaser and chaseie roles.
> 
> ...


yah, no sex is better than unwanted sex, or sex you spend way too much energy trying to get. that's just me. everybody is different, i get that.
some people can't do without sex and it'll drive them insane (literally).

but the hoops people go through to get sex we hear about on this site is just mind boggling. 
i mean life is hard enough, without trying to solve the navier-stokes equation in order to get sex.

btw, i was (past tense) in a sexless marriage. i know what i'm talking about.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

A few additional things...

First, yes. I completely feel like it's manipulation. That is the reason that nothing in any of the books work. It's like reading a cookbook for the story. If you're not actually planning to whip up the ingredients, then you're not going to get the food. In this case, the manipulation is for me to take on more responsibilities so she can take on fewer. She is a SAHM, but says she cannot keep up with laundry and cleaning. She wants a housekeeper. 

Second, I don't know how the porn thing started, but it had been effective. Awesome sex for both of us. But, now, she says she's not feeling like watching it. I never even payed much attention to the movie. I was always looking for visual cues that she was putting off. And she would put them off. Basically, I think in effectiveness, it was a 9/10. The sex was 10/10. So it's possible. 

Third, we have done the scheduled sex thing. So I'm hopeful, but not optimistic. It's likely she will still have an excuse or ask for a rain check. More realistically, it'll be minimal effort. With the exception of the porn nights, effort has never been her thing. This could just be a resetting of the countdown timer.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> My hope is that it was an inarticulate excuse. My fear is that she was saying exactly what she meant. Either way, it's the perfect example of the "stupid stuff" she says. She has expresses the desire to improve it, but never put any effort in whatsoever. All the effort has been on my part. I've realized that there is nothing I can do or change to improve it. If it's going to improve, it's on her.
> 
> Basically, I'm calling her out on her BS excuses from now on. Maybe it'll help, maybe not.
> 
> This has been going on for over 7 years. And yes, I have tried pulling back. Did the MMSLP. Read a million other books. Ones for men, women, religious, etc... It's not my fault, it's my problem.


If you aren't willing to pull the plug on someone who doesn't care about you or your needs, then I don't know what to tell you except that you may just have to suck it up and continue in this roommate situation until your kids move out. 

IMO, it would be better to deal with it now however and take your best shot at trying to save this. Because the longer you stay in this situation and continue in what I see as a "marriage in name only" the more angry, more bitter and more resentful you will get. After all that time, there won't be any love left anyway. Is that what you want? What kind of example does that set for your children? Why waste all that time?

Better to D than to teach them how to live in a dysfunctional marriage.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I would at least start prepping for it. 
She gets a job first off. She'll need one if you divorce anyway. 

How old are the kids? 

My Dad waited until we were older. It wasn't any easier for us and it sure as heck wasn't easier on him or my Mom (15+ years out of work force, teen and adult kids and lifelong alimony due to the number of years) 
It would had been easier for me to have to switch schools and move due to the divorce at 5 years than 14 years old. 

Kids adapt. My daughter has extreme anxiety and hates change. She is doing fine. The time she has with her Dad is more quality now as well. If I am there, they defer to me. It's always Mom. Being with Dad alone every weekend made her have to defer to him and go to Dad. They also chat on messenger nightly. 

Divorce isn't the end of the world. It's better than living without love


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> First, yes. I completely feel like it's manipulation. That is the reason that nothing in any of the books work. It's like reading a cookbook for the story. If you're not actually planning to whip up the ingredients, then you're not going to get the food. In this case, the manipulation is for me to take on more responsibilities so she can take on fewer. She is a SAHM, but says she cannot keep up with laundry and cleaning. She wants a housekeeper.


Oh brother!!! :slap:

F THAT NOISE! Sounds like she is lazy and has Entitled Princess Syndrome! 

And one of those people that is consistently moving the goalposts on you. Stop playing! 

If she wants a housekeeper then it's time for her to go out and get a job and fund it. 



lessthennone said:


> Third, we have done the scheduled sex thing. So I'm hopeful, but not optimistic. It's likely she will still have an excuse or ask for a rain check. More realistically, it'll be minimal effort. With the exception of the porn nights, effort has never been her thing. This could just be a resetting of the countdown timer.


Stop accepting minimal effort. It makes you feel bad.

You know what to do if that happens. I know you will be pissed off, but stay calm, stay cool, disengage and go out somewhere.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

lessthennone said:


> My hope is that it was an inarticulate excuse. My fear is that she was saying exactly what she meant. Either way, it's the perfect example of the "stupid stuff" she says. She has expresses the desire to improve it, but never put any effort in whatsoever. All the effort has been on my part. I've realized that there is nothing I can do or change to improve it. If it's going to improve, it's on her.


If she indeed told you that sex was not a priority, I would take her at her word for it and learn to accept that she may never be self motivated for anything to improve. 

I can promise you that she is very likely self motivated to do whatever it takes to avoid arguments about sex in the marriage. Thus her talent for making excuses, saying "stupid" things and avoiding the topic as if it were the plague. Ironically this form of motivation can be actually be used to improve your situation, although you have to accept and recognize that it is what it is as a way to work out a compromise. 

Well OK Badsanta,... how the **** does that work? The first step should be for you to acknowledge that arguing over sex would likely NOT help her feel closer to you. Then set aside certain days of the week in which there will be a moratorium on the pursuit of sex in your marriage, so that the two of you can just spend quality time together WITHOUT the fear or pressure that someone is going to get upset about not having sex. This will allow the two of you to get closer and try to improve communication as well as nonsexual intimacy. Then if she has mentioned before that she would be willing to work on things to improve sexual intimacy, this is where her motivation for that will come. By you acknowledging that arguing will not help and creating a safe environment to help the two of you feel closer. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

How long have you been at this...at trying to improve the intimacy in the relationship? Reading books etc.? Badsanta is a factory for great ideas, but you will need a lot of patience to work through them all to find what works...if she is willing to work.

And since SGC has broached the subject, why not explore it. What would a divorce look like for you?


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Thanks for the comments. I do want to point out one more thing...

I was in the midst of a pulling back period. Since I didn't ask, it didn't happen. When I asked, it was minimal effort. But, what started this new push (or pausing of pullback period) on my part was her walking by with headphones on pointing out that she was listening to a podcast on a sexless marriage. I asked which podcast it was. And I listened to it. Coincidentally, it was posted a few days ago in this forum...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...ast-about-sexless-marriages-esther-perel.html

This podcast seems to be different then conventional wisdom. The implication, at least to me (my wife heard different)was that for some erotic desire and intimacy aren't connected. But, erotic desire should be fulfilled in a healthy relationship. My wife heard the more typical non-sexual intimacy leads to eroticism which is in many books and I've applied unsuccessfully. That is why I'm getting the feeling it's more manipulation, and less of an honest effort to fix the issue. 

To me an honest effort would be less about being seen with headphones listening to a podcast, and more acting upon what she heard. Don't tell me what you are listening to, take off your clothes. The more I think about all the things I've done unsuccessfully, the more confident I am that helping around the house, hiring a housekeeper, watching the kids to give her more time to sleep, it all just manipulation.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Tron said:


> How long have you been at this...at trying to improve the intimacy in the relationship? Reading books etc.? Badsanta is a factory for great ideas, but you will need a lot of patience to work through them all to find what works...if she is willing to work.
> 
> And since SGC has broached the subject, why not explore it. What would a divorce look like for you?


We got married 11 years ago. A couple years into it it began. She likes to say it began with childbirth, but the truth is there was evidence of it before then. Before we had our own house, we used to go out more frequently. Like any kids living with their parents. But, now we have bills and kids. Going out to a bar every night isn't realistic. I fell like I've matured out of that, I also feel like she hasn't. She yearns for that old life when there were no responsibilities. 

My feeling is that either cheating or divorce would eat at me for the rest of my life. I would be in a worse place if I did either.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> I was in the midst of a pulling back period. Since I didn't ask, it didn't happen.


What do you mean by this? 



lessthennone said:


> To me an honest effort would be less about being seen with headphones listening to a podcast, and more acting upon what she heard. Don't tell me what you are listening to, take off your clothes. The more I think about all the things I've done unsuccessfully, the more confident I am that helping around the house, hiring a housekeeper, watching the kids to give her more time to sleep, it all just manipulation.


So, you've been subscribing to the "Nothing in this world excites a woman more than a man pushing a vacuum" program for improving your sex life? Believe that at your peril.

Sounds like a light bulb moment.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Yep. My wife liked it so much we even have a pic in our photo album of me pushing the vacuum with one arm while holding the toddler in the other. This was not an unusual occurrence (and she did not work outside the home). 

Our sex Life grew about as much as the value of beachfront property in Nebraska.

I saw a cute little picture book called "Porn for Women" which had a version of that pic right up front. What a crock. Nope, it's all just part of a huge silent female conspiracy to make relationships even more one sided.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Tron said:


> What do you mean by this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I mean is this had been going on a long time. Basically, I pulled back and stopped asking for sex. Concentrated on myself and doing things for me. I guess I got the obvious response, less sex. I'd prefer sex to those things I do for myself, but not pity sex. That's just boring.

And yes, lots of suggestions that pushing the vacuum gets you sex. Save yourself years... It doesn't.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

How many kids and how old?



lessthennone said:


> We got married 11 years ago. A couple years into it it began. She likes to say it began with childbirth, but the truth is there was evidence of it before then. Before we had our own house, we used to go out more frequently. Like any kids living with their parents. But, now we have bills and kids. Going out to a bar every night isn't realistic. I fell like I've matured out of that, I also feel like she hasn't. She yearns for that old life when there were no responsibilities.


I don't like reading this...

You said you actually read MMSLP? Athol Kay doesn't prescribe to the notion that a man who has kids is too mature to take his W out on the town now and again. Being an old fuddy duddy doesn't make a woman want to jump your bones. 

Are you sure this attitude isn't part of the problem? You've indicated that you've tried just about everything you can think of and read books etc.

Give us your best self assessment. What has soaked in and where are your weaknesses?



lessthennone said:


> My feeling is that either cheating or divorce would eat at me for the rest of my life. I would be in a worse place if I did either.


Everybody feels that way when they are afraid of what might happen in the future and are hanging on for dear life. 

What would a divorce look like in a real, tangible sense for you? Financially, socially, children?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

... some women happen to love a man cleaning.... 

But an LD woman isn't going to get all hot because a man cleans. It's sexy as heck to me but I have a high-ish drive as it is. I watched my bf mop once, it was hot. 

But I can tell you that *not* doing things, chores or date nights or taking the kids, or making an effort with your appearance isn't going to be good for you either. Do relationship things not to get sex but for the relationship part overall. 
She should be doing things too, for the relationship part. Including sex. 

But just as you don't want her to have sex with you just so you'll take the garbage out, don't take the garbage out just so you can get sex from her. 
Make any sense at all? 

Deciding to go on strike (ie I'm not doing X until you do Y) on either end hardly ever works. More resentment.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Tron said:


> How many kids and how old?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kids are 4 & 6 years old. 

Out on the town, of course. We went out by ourselves or with friends almost every week with a 3 week pause because my brother had a baby and parents were helping with them. Just can't go out and get drunk every day. Well, she would if she could. She does go to our married friends house after the kids go to sleep frequently. I'm home watching the kids, she comes back late. 

I've always had a job. Even when dating, and bar hopping, I had work every morning. After we got our own house, it slowed. Kids... it became a scheduled thing. 

My weakness is just that. I cannot stay out until 2am. I need to go to sleep so I can wake up and go to work. There were more then one time we went out and we both had things to do in the morning. She will cancel due to hangover, I cannot. So basically, I moderate my drinking and stop a couple hours or more before driving. She doesn't have to.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Recreation time should be spent together. It can be hard to maintain a good relationship without it. 

Would she read through this site, fill out some questionnaires and whatnots?

A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

lessthennone said:


> What I mean is this had been going on a long time. Basically, I pulled back and stopped asking for sex. *Concentrated on myself and doing things for me. I guess I got the obvious response, less sex.* I'd prefer sex to those things I do for myself, but not pity sex. That's just boring.
> 
> .


That's not a necessarily true sentiment. If your wife was really attracted to you she might have had a different response. Often women that are highly attracted to you will not like you pulling away and make more effort to get your attention.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> ... some women happen to love a man cleaning....
> 
> But an LD woman isn't going to get all hot because a man cleans. It's sexy as heck to me but I have a high-ish drive as it is. I watched my bf mop once, it was hot.
> 
> ...


I agree to a point SGC. 

He is out working and supporting the family financially, she is a SAHM. That means to me that the home and kids are her "job". The duties around the house should be distributed accordingly.

I am not saying that he shouldn't have some responsibility for things around the house, but IMO under the current arrangement he should be responsible for mostly man things...don't you think? The yard, the cars, fixing stuff around the house...and whatever he voluntarily chooses to handle because it is something he wants to do or something he enjoys. Not for her, not to lighten her load and certainly not for sex. 

If she isn't taking care of the house or the kids and he is taking on all those responsibilities as well, then the distribution isn't equal and there needs to be an adjustment.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> Kids are 4 & 6 years old.
> 
> Out on the town, of course. We went out by ourselves or with friends almost every week with a 3 week pause because my brother had a baby and parents were helping with them. Just can't go out and get drunk every day. Well, she would if she could. She does go to our married friends house after the kids go to sleep frequently. I'm home watching the kids, she comes back late.
> 
> ...


So, in summary, 

- She likes to drink and you take her out every week, more or less. She'd like to stay out later than your schedule allows. She does and then you take care of the kids while they are sleeping.

- She hangs out frequently at your married friends' house until 2 am.

- She likes to hang out without you.

There are a few things wrong here. Even potential red flags. 

But putting that aside, she sounds like a party girl and married life and kids are an unwanted burden.

Again, why isn't she working?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think you missed the point of doing stuff on your own. The FACT is, you aren't going to be getting good enthusiastic sex with her under any circumstances. Once you get that through your head and own the fact that you're choosing to remain in a sexless marriage (as opposed to pulling back to try to get sex) you might as well enjoy yourself. Housework will not get you sex. Neither will not doing housework. Because, duh, you aren't getting it no matter what. So between the choices of housework and no sex or a motorcycle weekend and no sex, you're better off choosing the weekend out.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

^ I do agree that a SAHM's job includes cooking and cleaning. I would not expect my husband to help with anything other than heavy stuff and things I can't do on my own (like some fixing) 


And yes, she can work and should. It'll help them both in the long run. Quite frankly if she doesn't want to be a wife she doesn't have to have a husband paying for her to stay at home.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Tron said:


> lessthennone said:
> 
> 
> > Kids are 4 & 6 years old.
> ...


I take her out almost every week. There are weeks we can't fit it into the schedule, but we try hard to.

Usually 12 - 1am at our friends. They have kids and work too. When she does ladies night, it could be 2am.

Prefers to hangout without me I don't know. But she does go out without me and i stay home with the kids.

When we had kids we both decided she should quit her job. To stay home with the kids. I didn't anticipate her being so stressed out by them. And I also thought that implied she was responsible for more of the housework. She does more of it, but she holds it against me when I'm looking for intimacy.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> How are you trying? If she's sitting there watching tv and you just out of the blue ask for sex or start groping her that's unlikely to get a yes, from a lot of women.


There is absolutely no approach that OP can employ that will result in his wife saying yes to sex in the short term.

This is not a 'technique' problem.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think there needs to be enough communication that she doesn't need an "excuse" and to pretend that she's tired.
> 
> "If you don't want to have sex, just say you don't want to have sex"


I agree that THIS is the problem.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> There is absolutely no approach that OP can employ that will result in his wife saying yes to sex in the short term.
> 
> This is not a 'technique' problem.
> .


No, not likely but it could make the times she does say yes more enjoyable for her which may lead to more sex. Maybe. 

The optimism there is that porn to turn her on led to good, mutual sex. So in theory there is desire there if it's turned on.
If he can try to make all the sex they have good for her it could help a little.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Was it something she was actually watching beforehand?
> Timing is your friend.
> Next time after the show is over, take the remote and turn the tv off. Then start kissing and stuff.
> 
> ...


Not every woman's sexuality is exactly like yours. Therefore, it is not always true that things that would work for you would work for all other women.

In some case, the following is just true



Livvie said:


> It's my opinion that initiating in a different way, at a different time, isn't going to change this fact one bit.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

lessthennone said:


> What I mean is this had been going on a long time. Basically, I pulled back and stopped asking for sex. Concentrated on myself and doing things for me. I guess I got the obvious response, less sex. I'd prefer sex to those things I do for myself, but not pity sex. That's just boring.
> 
> And yes, lots of suggestions that pushing the vacuum gets you sex. Save yourself years... It doesn't.


This is the nonreciprocal law of sexual attraction:
1. Asking for (or seeking/wanting/expecting/demanding) more sex leads to less sex
2. Asking for (or seeking/wanting/expecting/demanding) less sex leads to less sex


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## KaraBoo0723 (Oct 1, 2016)

lessthennone said:


> Thanks for the comments. I do want to point out one more thing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yep -- if there is an unresolved chronic issue in my marriage I absolutely research and read up on it: however if I want my H to learn more as well I know that listening to a podcast or audiobook WITH HIM is far more effective than suggesting it as an independent activity. That way we can pause and discuss major points or controversial subjects right then -- no misconceptions about how each other interpreted it.


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## MarriedAHooker (Sep 20, 2017)

I wouldn't **** OP either, my god..


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

lessthennone said:


> I take her out almost every week. There are weeks we can't fit it into the schedule, but we try hard to.
> 
> Usually 12 - 1am at our friends. They have kids and work too. When she does ladies night, it could be 2am.
> 
> ...


Brother, she should be doing all of it and without complaint. That just goes with the territory. And before the feminists jump all over me, I would be telling you the same if you were the house husband. If you decide to help her anywhere, it is a bonus and she should be grateful. Don't expect it though. 

If you want to win this battle, think about what hasn't worked so far.

You've said you have tried to pull back. But I hope you understand that that doesn't mean simply not begging for sex. That means no sex, no dates, no babysitting, no lightening her load, no emotional support, no intimacy, etc...PERIOD. 

It means taking care of yourself first. You take care of your kids well being, you take care of your own daily chores, you take care of work, pay the bills, do the yard, etc. Anything she wants that is out of the ordinary, honey dos, etc. get a "no". If she wants to know why, you tell her you don't want to, that's it. If she wants to unload all her daily troubles on you, leave the room, those aren't your problems. She wants all the benefits of a husband to do her babysitting and wipe her ass, but doesn't want to do what it takes to keep one. Show her what it means to lose those benefits. And don't talk about it, don't be angry. Just do it. 

And if she wants to go out at night, for every night she goes out, you go out, so she can't. When you aren't around half the time, she is gonna get a clear picture of what it is like to be a single lady with kids. You need to unbalance the situation. You are losing the battle. It is time to wreck her groove.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Ftr- I am a feminist and I still think her job includes the cooking and cleaning. If she doesn't like it she can choose to get a job instead. Yay feminism. 

I agree she's getting a lot here and not giving much back. 

I think you need to sit her down and tell her that due to the very likely chance that this sexless marriage will end in divorce sooner rather than later, she needs to get a job and start understanding what it will mean to be independent. 

But you have to actually mean it. And I think you should.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In other words, don't allow her to be comfortable in your discomfort.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

The additional truth is WHY sex with him is not a priority. And that matters because if she told him why, he'd get that the sex will never be there, and might in fact leave. Her making excuses for sex but remaining engaged on household stuff is stringing him along intentionally. There is a pattern we at TAM see but the OP has not seen (or accepted).

Lessthanone,

The most likely scenario is your wife is using you for lifestyle support. She wants to be a single person who can come and go as she pleases. But she has a family with you, which prevents that freedom. She's unhappy, it's your fault in her mind, and she's not going to have sex with someone she resents. And, as long as she can keep refusing sex without meaningful consequences, she has a pretty decent life (and she feels entitled to it at your expense).

Maybe she IS naturally low drive, and that makes this sexless arrangement okay for her. Or, maybe she is screwing someone on the side (she is out late, without you). Wouldn't be the first time.

If I were in your situation, I would stop making her life easy around the house (no slaving around the house for you, no housekeeper for her, etc.). I would also insist she get a job. I would say something like "you've told me that sex isn't a priority for you, and it's clear that my needs aren't real important either. While I can't make you work on treating me well, I don't have to reward you for treating me badly. I'll provide a home and food for you, but you'll have to go out and earn money and still help around the house, just like I do."

And mean it. Get the kids signed up in before/after school care so she has no excuse. House gets nasty, then do as needed for you and the kids to be okay. Dinner is not ready, then take the kids out to eat. Do stuff with just you and the kids. Leave her to contemplate how her life will be if she continues on this course. Make it clear that the status quo is gone forever - she can treat your needs like they matter or be essentially alone.



Rowan said:


> She flat out _told_ him that sex with him is not a priority. What more truth needs to come out?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm a female. Sometimes the simplest answer is the true answer. If you are treating your wife with love and respect, contributing to the relationship fairly as a partner, and have not let yourself go physically.....

The reason she doesn't want to have sex with you is that she just plain isn't sexually attracted to you very much.

I've been in a relationship in which my boyfriend just wasn't all that sexually attracted to me. I could run around in mental circles, what can I do to make him want sex more often, is it my behavior, something I need to change physically, maybe he's LD and it's just how he is, talk to him about what I need, etc. etc. But the truth was, he just wasn't that into me anymore and there was nothing I could do to change that. 

I'm sure once he was with someone he was on fire for, he acted like it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> I'm a female. Sometimes the simplest answer is the true answer. If you are treating your wife with love and respect, contributing to the relationship fairly as a partner, and have not let yourself go physically.....
> 
> The reason she doesn't want to have sex with you is that she just plain isn't sexually attracted to you very much.
> 
> ...


I agree she's not into him, for any number of reasons. But in the OP's situation, there's more going on. She's actively using him while denying him sex, as contrasted with pulling her weight with the home and kids, and living up to her agreement to be a SAHM.

If he wants any chance for this marriage to continue (even with a crappy sex life) then he needs to address the disrespect first, and start taking care of himself.


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

Can we Yoda this for him? Less talk more do. Stop *****ing to her and focus on the best you, physically and mentally. Join a bowling league for one night a week. Before I was of age I never realized that bowling is getting dunk and throwing things, it's brilliant.
And a 'you' night is healthy. I miss Conrad and Mach. 

Best regards,
V(13)



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Ftr- I am a feminist and I still think her job includes the cooking and cleaning. If she doesn't like it she can choose to get a job instead. Yay feminism.
> 
> I agree she's getting a lot here and not giving much back.
> 
> ...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Voltaire2013 said:


> Can we Yoda this for him? Less talk more do. Stop *****ing to her and focus on the best you, physically and mentally. Join a bowling league for one night a week. Before I was of age I never realized that bowling is getting dunk and throwing things, it's brilliant.
> And a 'you' night is healthy. I miss Conrad and Mach.
> 
> Best regards,
> V(13)


As much fun as getting drunk and throwing things may be, it'll always be a poor substitute for knocking boots with the one you love. The best thing physically and mentally (and emotionally and spiritually) is mutually satisfying sex with a loving partner. This should be the baseline requirement and one can still have a "you night" on top of that, maximizing personal benefit.

I love mountain biking; it is a dynamic, active, sometimes thrilling pursuit-- but it can never be a replacement for what I'm missing in the bedroom. The best it can do is temporarily mask a problem, not solve it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Voltaire2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Can we Yoda this for him? Less talk more do. Stop *****ing to her and focus on the best you, physically and mentally. Join a bowling league for one night a week. Before I was of age I never realized that bowling is getting dunk and throwing things, it's brilliant.
> ...


I agree, but the problem is the OP is NEVER going to have this with this woman. So as long as he refuses to get himself out of this marriage, at least he'd have bowling.


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## Leroi (May 13, 2016)

Sorry for my poor english (I'm from Italy, no mothertongue).

OP, sorry for that, but she doesn't love you anymore.
I have no other explanations.

That is why you should seriously consider to divorce her.

A lot of people said you should take care of your own first, stop doing things for her in order to make her feel how you feel now.
This won't work. It will be perceived as blackmail, and just lead to hate and anger.
Why do I say this? because it looks like there is nothing to rebuild on. From what you said, from the stupid stuff she said, from her behaviour the only thing I get is she is no more interested in you, not only sexually. 
We all know that a marriage is like a house: you have to build it up, restructure it, fix it. But she has left the building.

Btw: my parents divorced when I was 6 (my bro 8, my sis 2). We love them, and always will. 
It all depends on how you'll be able to handle it.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

It sounds to me like she is depressed. Plain ol' ordinary depressed. 

Not every woman loves motherhood or the SAHM role, for example.

Instead of deciding beforehand that she is an evil manipulator that is determined to ruin OP's life, maybe it might be helpful to try and see things from her perspective?

My husband also just asks when he wants sex. And while that approach can work with me, it isn't because I find it a turn-on.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

wild jade said:


> It sounds to me like she is depressed. Plain ol' ordinary depressed.
> 
> Not every woman loves motherhood or the SAHM role, for example.
> 
> ...


I don't see where it seems like she is depressed.

Also, to actually say to your own husband "but if I give you oral I can't watch TV while I do it" is beyond ****ed up.


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, I was hoping to come on and talk about how good the sex was last night. But, she hurt her leg yesterday. I don't believe she's faking it, but stuff like this always happens. At least I told myself that her assurances didn't mean certainty.

Yes. She's depressed. I've been supportive, but she gets says really hurtful stuff. She only focuses on the negative even if it's criticizing me for something irrational. Again, not my fault, but my problem.

I do have stuff I do for myself. I can be happy on my own. I don't have to change what I'm doing in a response to her. I'll still be happy.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

lessthennone said:


> To me an honest effort would be less about being seen with headphones listening to a podcast, and more acting upon what she heard. Don't tell me what you are listening to, take off your clothes. The more I think about all the things I've done unsuccessfully, the * more confident I am that helping around the house, hiring a housekeeper, watching the kids to give her more time to sleep, it all just manipulation.*


That kind of sounds like she might be depressed. You can't solve depression by trying to correct/improve sexual issues in your marriage. If this is indeed the case then sexual problems/issues would be a symptom of depression. Yes, in medical situations you can actually treat the symptoms without knowing the cause, but this is usually done for a cause that is thought to be temporary and self correcting. 

So if your wife is depressed and you find a temporary solution that improves sex, that might seem like you found a solution. But at the end of the day depression will continue to drain the life out of everything until you sink. 

In my opinion, the only thing that will help with depression is encouraging your wife's self development. Such as helping her develop her career or a hobby. But you will probably have her start with some therapy to help learn coping skills.

I could be completely wrong, but just wanted to toss that out there...

Badsanta


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## lessthennone (Jun 19, 2014)

badsanta said:


> That kind of sounds like she might be depressed. You can't solve depression by trying to correct/improve sexual issues in your marriage. If this is indeed the case then sexual problems/issues would be a symptom of depression. Yes, in medical situations you can actually treat the symptoms without knowing the cause, but this is usually done for a cause that is thought to be temporary and self correcting.
> 
> So if your wife is depressed and you find a temporary solution that improves sex, that might seem like you found a solution. But at the end of the day depression will continue to drain the life out of everything until you sink.
> 
> ...


She has been in therapy for depression. On and off for 30+ years. It is a strong contributing factor. Therapy makes her feel better, but it does nothing to improve the relationship.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

This is why people have affairs. You'll go looking outside the marriage if you aren't getting your needs met. It's natural, how humans are wired. Not normal to be stuck in a relationship where needs aren't being met. That creates regret. Don't have regret 10 years from now, waiting for the kids to turn 18 and then divorce. Life is too short for that. These are your prime years, you should be having the best sex of your life. Both of you.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

A history of depression would have been a helpful thing to know. Mental illness is a completely different animal; you can go ahead and disregard my previous advice. 

Is she on anti-depressants? Because many of them kill libido.

Maybe start with Wellbutrin and a job. Being a SAHM with too much time on her hands is only going to prolong the negative **** going on in her mind.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

lessthennone said:


> I haven't posted in a long while because the responses usually make me more upset then they help. They do make me try to have conversations with my wife, but thise never turn out well. IMO, when I bring up sex in our relationship, she says the stupidest stuff.
> 
> Some examples...
> 
> ...


Good Lord.

If this woman was any *LESS *into you, she'd be in a coma.

I'm not sure where this supposed "depression" is causing her obvious disconnect from you. She doesn't sound depressed at all. She's just completely *disengaged* from you.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I don't see where it seems like she is depressed.
> 
> Also, to actually say to your own husband "but if I give you oral I can't watch TV while I do it" is beyond ****ed up.


Actually there are significant cues all over OP's posts. Long before he actually came right out and said that she has struggled with depression for a good chunk of her life.

Everyone wants to jump on her forhow she treats OP, and accuse her of not loving him, manipulating him, using him, and so on. But really, how she's treating him isn't the core of what's going on. A symptom.

As he said, it isn't his fault, but it is his problem. 

With knowledge that it is depressions that's fueling her, though, OP can take more effective steps to helping the relationship aspect and looking out for himself. Some of that would be just trying to understand where she is coming from and not just keep feeding his anger and resentment.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

All the therapy in the world wouldn't cure my depression. It requires meds and there is a drastic difference when I'm on them. It's a medical issue 

Meds have never lowered my libido but one made me unable to orgasm. That was a nightmare. So she may need to try a few before she gets a good med and dose for her. 
Effexor is the only one that works good for me. 

I have a good sex drive. Off meds I really don't care about anything, including sex. I'm not sad or weepy. 
I can't make decisions (like which dish soap to get) I feel overwhelmed about everything. I'm easy to anger and annoy. I'm generally blah about everything. No motivation to do anything. 

Meds don't make me happy, they just remove the depression so I can feel normal feelings and have normal wants and motivations.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

ShesStillGotIt wrote insightfully and concisely, *If this woman was any LESS into you, she'd be in a coma.

I'm not sure where this supposed "depression" is causing her obvious disconnect from you. She doesn't sound depressed at all. She's just completely disengaged from you. *

Yes it sound like she is depressed when she is with her husband, possibly because she knows she does not love him. He's a great person, father, provider and etc to her but she just doesn't love him. 

I would guess she is not depressed when she goes out with friends to bars. 

Tamat


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> ShesStillGotIt wrote insightfully and concisely, *If this woman was any LESS into you, she'd be in a coma.
> 
> I'm not sure where this supposed "depression" is causing her obvious disconnect from you. She doesn't sound depressed at all. She's just completely disengaged from you. *
> 
> ...


Why would you guess that? There's quite a strong correlation between partying and depression. Indeed, OP's description of her desire to party and escape the monotony and responsibility of her current life was one of the cues that she is suffering from depression. I've seen it happen this way more times than I can count.


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