# How much is enough?



## klemommy (Apr 10, 2017)

Hi, this is my first time being here. Some background info: I'm 22, husband is 24, two kids ages 5 & 2. We have been together since I was 15, and married for 3 years the end of this month. We have been having a lot of problems. About 6 months ago we took a 3 day break from each other because things were bad. I felt he didn't love me, show me affection, or even put me as a priority. I felt like a complete slave almost. I do all the cleaning, bills, take care of the children, literally everything but have a job(I am in school for engineering currently). I have found having sex with my husband to become almost a chore. He expects sex at least more than once a week. When I do not he becomes angry, cold, and extremely passive aggressive. I feel as if I am having sex just to not have him be angry at me again. About a year ago I forced him to give up alcohol because he had developed an addiction for it. During his alcoholism his need for sex was much more aggressive. He would scream so loud and punch the walls that I would give in so he wouldn't wake up the kids. He is somewhat better now, but still gets angry if it becomes too infrequent. I have told him many times that my lack of interest is because I don't feel close to him emotionally as much as I believe I need. He says he tries, but it is very little, if any change at all. But he told me that if we couldn't fix it and have sex more(not just do it, but actually initiated by me with passion) that he would get it from somebody else. I don't know what to do. Do I try to respark the connection or just give up? Part of me says run for the hills, and another says keep trying every marriage is hard.
Side note: He hates therapy and refuses to go.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If he's not providing emotional support - and with two young kids and college you need lots of that - why are you still together?


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## klemommy (Apr 10, 2017)

That is exactly what I have been questioning. I was raised by very religious parents, in a very small town, that promotes a lot of "Every problem in a marriage can be worked through with effort," so over the years I have been giving what feels like all of my effort to maybe receive 40% of his. Everyone around me acts as if this is normal and that is just what a wife has to deal with, so I have been trying to reach out to other sources(i.e this forum) to talk more thoroughly with people outside of the small town bubble.


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## shrah25 (Mar 22, 2017)

klemommy said:


> Hi, this is my first time being here. Some background info: I'm 22, husband is 24, two kids ages 5 & 2. We have been together since I was 15, and married for 3 years the end of this month. We have been having a lot of problems. About 6 months ago we took a 3 day break from each other because things were bad. I felt he didn't love me, show me affection, or even put me as a priority. I felt like a complete slave almost. I do all the cleaning, bills, take care of the children, literally everything but have a job(I am in school for engineering currently). I have found having sex with my husband to become almost a chore. He expects sex at least more than once a week. When I do not he becomes angry, cold, and extremely passive aggressive. I feel as if I am having sex just to not have him be angry at me again. About a year ago I forced him to give up alcohol because he had developed an addiction for it. During his alcoholism his need for sex was much more aggressive. He would scream so loud and punch the walls that I would give in so he wouldn't wake up the kids. He is somewhat better now, but still gets angry if it becomes too infrequent. I have told him many times that my lack of interest is because I don't feel close to him emotionally as much as I believe I need. He says he tries, but it is very little, if any change at all. But he told me that if we couldn't fix it and have sex more(not just do it, but actually initiated by me with passion) that he would get it from somebody else. I don't know what to do. Do I try to respark the connection or just give up? Part of me says run for the hills, and another says keep trying every marriage is hard.
> Side note: He hates therapy and refuses to go.


Hi @klemommy

Thanks for your post.

I know this must be a rather difficult situation for you so I'm really sorry for that. 

Before I give you my advice, I have a question - are you afraid that he will get physically abusive towards you? 

It's clear your husband has some real internal issues of his own that needs to be addressed. I will generalise here but so many men struggle with therapy primarily because the issues that need to be resolved create too much internal pain and turmoil which ultimately leads them to a feeling of weakness, hence that the easiest way to deal with it is to avoid it. It's sad but it happens all the time. 

In a relationship, we have influence, but we can never control. No matter how much we think we can control, it's rare that we get the outcome that we want, hence it's really important to look inside yourself and make a decision around how you wish to be treated and how you wish to move forward.

Put simply, his behaviour is unacceptable and if I spoke to him, I would tell him in no uncertain terms that is was wrong. Having said that, no matter how thin you slice it, there are always two sides to the story so it would be interesting to discover what his take is on all of these experiences you are going through... 

We get what we tolerate in life. In other words, whatever you set your standards as, you will get.
So if your standard is to have a man who will treat you with respect and love because thats what you deserve, then you will have a standard that will allow you to notice the warning signs early and know what action to take. How? Because you value yourself. When we value ourselves internally, we move forward knowing that a man has to meet a certain standard before he can truly be allowed to enter into our world. And believe me, there will be little things that he will demonstrate that will determine whether he is the right fit for you...In this case, there are also major signs as well. 

However, I see so many women overlooking all these little things and then getting hurt in the long run - mainly cause they either were so caught up in the initial 'honeymoon' period or they chose to ignore the warning signs. Trust me - I totally get it cause i've been through the exact same process. I was so lured to having a relationship that I completely overlooked the warning signs until there was a moment of massive heartbreak.

So the question is - what are you prepared to tolerate? If you view this as unacceptable and he needs to change, then that needs to be communicated. This then leads to my question above regarding his tendency to inflict physical harm. If there is a chance of that, then you need to be very careful and call upon the appropriate authorities in the first instance. 

If not, then you need to decide on how you wish to be treated and act accordingly. With kids being involved as well, I know it will be the natural tendency to want to stick it out because of them but just remember, kids soak in all the behaviour from their surroundings so exposure to a dysfunctional relationship can be even worse than dealing with a separation.

I hope that all makes sense.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks
Sri


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

A not uncommon problem when you have kids before you marry. Seems that most will marry due to the kid out of duty or avoiding paying child support while living in another house. They also sometimes become comfortable in their life, especially if you are doing all the work. Sometimes we think that the next step in our relationship is marriage due to close ties to each other. 

I would be surprised if he was the ideal boyfriend before you married him. You pretty much get what you see when you marry but love blinds us to each other's faults. My wife's best friend married an alcoholic and she was the only one who did not seem to notice until after they married and had a kid. She divorced him and came to live with us and eventually married a doctor. BTW, she found her alcoholic husband in a bar with their baby. He was drinking when he was supposed to be home taking care of their child. He was driving too.

My wife comes from an alcoholic and violent family. Her dad put all of his children in the hospital at one time or another. This was when the police did not interfere in domestic affairs if no one pressed charges. My advice is to get out of that marriage. My wife's parents really had a negative impact on her life. She is submissive and shows fear if she thinks she did something that I did not like. She is always trying to please me and has an excuse for any mistakes she made. According to her, it is always someone else's fault because growing up she was beaten for making mistakes.

For the sake of the kids and your sake, run as fast as you can. I have noticed that alcoholics tend to get sober and then revert and it starts all over again. I would not put up with it, disease or not. It will give you a horrible life. Just my opinion but I have seen what having an alcoholic father can do to a kid. My wife's brother became a drug user and died from an overdose. Her sister is over 300 lbs. because she eats to feel good about herself. I have worked long and hard to get my wife to stop putting everyone else before herself and at the age of 64, she is finally gaining confidence and realizing that just because I do not like something, it is not a reflection on her. I remember how bad I felt when I pointed out a mistake and how quickly she denied it. Even worse was the fear in her eyes when I said that I did not like whatever it was that she cooked. 

You should not see fear in anyone's eyes because someone does not like something. I have to walk on eggshells with her and take the blame for a lot of things. This is an example of how she thinks. She can be listening to music with headphones while crossing the street looking at her iPhone and get hit by a car. She would say it was not her fault because she could not hear the car coming. She thinks like this all the time because she was raised to expect violence if anything was her fault and apparently nothing she did was good enough for her dad. I got her out of there real fast and she is eternally grateful for the normal life I have given her. She has never been loved before or had a boyfriend because they were all afraid to date her. Run. Run fast.


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## klemommy (Apr 10, 2017)

*Young mom in need of advice*

_{moderator note: klemommy, you had two threads on the same topic. So I merged them. I am leaving this post even though it's very similar to your original post on this thread. There is enough extra info in the below post that it fleshes out your story a bit more. ~EleGirl}_


Hi, I'm new here and just found this site today in need of someone to talk to. Background info: I am 22, husband is 24, kids are 5 & 2. I am currently in school for engineering. Things have steadily become worse between my husband and I. About 2 years ago things were terrible after he had developed an addiction to alcohol. At one point I had to go pick him up from some random bar (after he had a fist fight with his ride home) at 3am with both the kids after only having delivered our 2nd child 4 days beforehand(bonus, it was mother's day). Finally enough was enough and I told him to stop or lose his family, so he gave it up. Things after that were just okay. I held onto a lot of resentment from his drinking days that I felt he never actually apologized for or fully realized how much emotional damage it had caused. Anyway, ever since he had started drinking our sex life became strained. At night he stank of beer and farts, and I didn't want to have sex with a sloppy drunk. He started becoming angry every time we didn't have sex at least once a week, so I started just doing it to stop the arguments. This still effects us today. I feel as if he is not fully there for me emotionally, or that I am high enough up in his list of priorities. He becomes easily agitated when I try to discuss our relationship. I have done research on how to try to approach him in an open and accepting way instead of being offensive, but no matter what he is resilient. He will listen to me eventually and say he will try harder to connect, but this never comes to fruition. He then becomes angry at me for not giving him enough of a physical connection, even though we still have sex at least once a week and I make sure to cuddle him in the mornings. I feel as if I am the only one giving an effort most days. I already completely take care of 2 kids, the house, bills, college, literally everything, and to also take all of the emotional stress of a marriage is too much. I have expressed this feeling of being emotionally overwhelmed with him many times, but things are still the same. I think he is mostly content to just let me do it all, as long as he gets sex regularly. After our last big talk(about a week ago) I told him I wasn't sure if I wanted to have sex until we resolved it or at least agreed what to work on next. Well, tonight after I refused sex(which is somewhat rare because I want to make him happy so I normally say yes) he became very angry and told me that if I didn't figure out what I wanted(divorce or not) he would find someone else that would. I just find it unfair that he will ignore my relationship needs for months on end, but when he is denied for a week he starts threatening extremes. It's hard because I come from a VERY conservative family and town, and they all think that a wife giving all the effort is normal, and that no marriage is worthy of divorce. At the stage my marriage is currently at I just want to give up, but is it too soon? Is there more effort to be given that could help mend our relationship? He is completely against therapy and refuses to go and told me how disappointed he was that I wanted to seek help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

klemommy said:


> Hi, this is my first time being here. Some background info: I'm 22, husband is 24, two kids ages 5 & 2. We have been together since I was 15, and married for 3 years the end of this month. We have been having a lot of problems. About 6 months ago we took a 3 day break from each other because things were bad. I felt he didn't love me, show me affection, or even put me as a priority. I felt like a complete slave almost. I do all the cleaning, bills, take care of the children, literally everything but have a job(I am in school for engineering currently). I have found having sex with my husband to become almost a chore. He expects sex at least more than once a week. When I do not he becomes angry, cold, and extremely passive aggressive. I feel as if I am having sex just to not have him be angry at me again. About a year ago I forced him to give up alcohol because he had developed an addiction for it. During his alcoholism his need for sex was much more aggressive. He would scream so loud and punch the walls that I would give in so he wouldn't wake up the kids. He is somewhat better now, but still gets angry if it becomes too infrequent. I have told him many times that my lack of interest is because I don't feel close to him emotionally as much as I believe I need. He says he tries, but it is very little, if any change at all. But he told me that if we couldn't fix it and have sex more(not just do it, but actually initiated by me with passion) that he would get it from somebody else. I don't know what to do. Do I try to respark the connection or just give up? Part of me says run for the hills, and another says keep trying every marriage is hard.
> Side note: He hates therapy and refuses to go.


Your husband is emotionally abusive. You say that he has done things like hit the walls in anger. That is a form of physical violence. The message is that this time he's hitting the wall, next time he just might hit you.

Has he ever hit you, pushed you, grabbed in anger, etc?

If you want to give it one more chance, I'd suggest that you read a few books that will give some things to work with.

*Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men* 

The next two books are for both of you to read. The purpose of them is to restructure your relationship so that you are meeting each others emotional needs. The idea is to read the Love Buster book and the two of you do the work. That way you both stop the lover busters (the way he acts about sex is a HUGE love buster). And then once the love busters have stopped, you work on identifying and meeting each other's needs. The books do a good job of explaining things like women need non-sexual intimacy in order feel the desire for sexual intimacy. 

"Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". {See links in my signature block below.}

The next one is about setting boundaries. You need to learn to set boundaries that protect you from things like his behavior. You cannot change him. I'm sure you know this by now. Instead you can only change yourself.

*Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin— - How to Recognize and Set Healthy Boundaries* by Anne Katherine

Your husband probably also needs to go to anger management counseling.

You said that he told you that if he does not get enough sex from your, then he'll go get it else where. From that statement, it seems that he sees himself as having all the power in the relationship. Have your ever told him that if he does not start meeting your needs that you will leave the relationship? He needs to realize that he is not the only person in your relationship that has options. 

I suggest that you sit him down and tell him that the relationship is not working for you. You will not stay in a relationship with a man who refuses to even try to meet your emotional needs and who abuses you. If he wants to stay married to you he needs to work on the marriage and on himself. He needs to get into anger management counseling. He needs to read the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs" and do the work they suggest with you. If he is not willing to do that, then you are going to divorce him. {You could throw some marriage counseling in there too.}

It's an ultimatum so you would have to be willing to do what you say if he refuses to work on the marriage. 

If you do try this, have a time limit... say 3 months, re-access in 3 months. If things are getting better, give it another 3 months. and re-access and go on like that for a year or two to make sure that there is no back sliding.

I say all of the above with caution. Your husband has the propensity to be violent. Please call the police if he ever gets violent again. Doing thinks like hitting the walls, breaking things, is still domestic violence. It's him directly threatening you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*You need out of this relationship yesterday!

Like some spoiled brat, he is trying to hold you hostage to his sexual whims hiding behind his probable alcoholism and emotionalism!

Do "the 180" and get with a good "piranha" family attorney in getting him extricated from your life! He needs to be dropped like the bad habit that he has become!*


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## klemommy (Apr 10, 2017)

Just for clarification, no, my husband has never become physical with me in any way. The times when he hits a wall or throws some type of small object at it are rare, but it does happen. He was raised in a very abusive home, and as a result does suffer from issues from that, but one thing he is adamant about is to never physically harm a loved one. Since we were teenagers I have always been the one he went to for emotional support when he needed it. But as the years passed I began trying to get him to realize he has to be there for me too when I need support, but he does not handle it well. He either becomes angry(most likely) or starts hating himself(less likely, but it starts the spiral of me helping him emotionally again). As I age I believe my needs in a partner expand as I realize how unstable our uneven relationship dynamic is. I have come to him about it, even said that I was considering a divorce about 6 months ago, and then he will tell me he will try, that he doesn't want to lose me. And he does give more of an effort, small ones, for maybe a month, and then reverts back to the old ways. It seems like he is resistant to any help, whether it be counseling, or even just regularly discussing things between us without him becoming heated. For example, about two weeks ago I tried starting a light hearted discussion on progress(or lack thereof) over the last few months with our relationship and his exact words were, "This s*** again." The hardest part is that apart from sex and the deeper emotions, we are still good friends. We still can hangout just fine, even have fun, but as soon as the situation becomes more serious, we are terrible.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

klemommy said:


> ....married for 3 years the end of this month.
> 
> ....I have found having sex with my husband to become almost a chore. He expects sex at least more than once a week. When I do not he becomes angry, cold, and extremely passive aggressive. I feel as if I am having sex just to not have him be angry at me again.
> 
> ...


I am sorry. Except for the alcoholism, my wife at the low point in my marriage could have said the initial works about me. Except that each and every day I was telling my wife that I loved her, just not in a way she could understand, as we had significantly different "love languages" (Chapman's 5 Love Languages). Her love languages were different than mine and I wasn't making her feel loved and cherished. 

I would never have threatened to get sex outside my marriage. I worked hard at trying to figure out how to save my marriage and with the help of a sex therapist and a lot of reading, my wife and I were able to rebuild our marriage.

My suggestions to you are to try to figure out if he really loves you and your children and values the marriage. Part of what you said indicates he values sex more than marriage and the meeting of his needs over the sharing that is part of a marriage.

This has nothing to do with sexual frequency. There is not right amount of sex or wrong frequency of sex. It is all about compromise that BOTH can live with. If he got sex more than once a week, it might still not be enough given your description of him. 

Even if he doesn't like therapy, I would suggest that you sit him down and tell him that if he keeps pushing you away or he threatens to cheat on you, divorce is in your future. Tell him you don't want that, but it appears to be what he is pushing toward. Tell him that divorce attorneys are very expensive, much more expensive than marriage counseling. You might even want to find out a local divorce attorney and get an introductory meeting, just to understand the process.

Good luck to you.

P.S. hitting walls and throwing things are stuff I have never done and are a ign that he has real anger control issues. You really need to guard your own physical safety and he needs so Individual Counseling.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

klemommy said:


> Just for clarification, no, my husband has never become physical with me in any way. The times when he hits a wall or throws some type of small object at it are rare, but it does happen. He was raised in a very abusive home, and as a result does suffer from issues from that, but one thing he is adamant about is to never physically harm a loved one. Since we were teenagers I have always been the one he went to for emotional support when he needed it. But as the years passed I began trying to get him to realize he has to be there for me too when I need support, but he does not handle it well. He either becomes angry(most likely) or starts hating himself(less likely, but it starts the spiral of me helping him emotionally again). As I age I believe my needs in a partner expand as I realize how unstable our uneven relationship dynamic is. I have come to him about it, even said that I was considering a divorce about 6 months ago, and then he will tell me he will try, that he doesn't want to lose me. And he does give more of an effort, small ones, for maybe a month, and then reverts back to the old ways. It seems like he is resistant to any help, whether it be counseling, or even just regularly discussing things between us without him becoming heated. For example, about two weeks ago I tried starting a light hearted discussion on progress(or lack thereof) over the last few months with our relationship and his exact words were, "This s*** again." The hardest part is that apart from sex and the deeper emotions, we are still good friends. We still can hangout just fine, even have fun, but as soon as the situation becomes more serious, we are terrible.


When he tries to do things to support, what does he do?

What do you tell him that you need for him to do to give you support?


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## mrsluvmyhub (Nov 28, 2016)

You mention your religious upbringing. 



> 1 Corinthians 7:3-5New International Version (NIV)
> 
> 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


This means that it is wrong to say "No" to your spouse when they want sex, because your body belongs to them! And theirs to you!

What if you conducted an experiment where you choose to say "Yes" to him every time he asks? Or at the very least "Not right now, but definitely later tonight." You are free to make that choice, irrelevant of your feelings.

This system has worked well for me. I feel very blessed by my husband and I'm sure he does to! I have been pregnant or breastfeeding for 11 years and the hormones of this stage make me have very low drive. So I don't feel "in the mood" much. BUT I always get in the mood when we get going.

Perhaps you feel initiating is too much when you aren't into it, I get that. Maybe you could tell your husband that from now on (for the next month or 2 months or forever) that you will ALWAYS say "Yes" to him. You may be surprised by the wonderful changes that occur in him and your relationship! He may binge on sex at first, but he should settle down when he relizes that your word is trustworthy.

If he is selfish in sex and doesn't help you to enjoy it then that makes it not very enjoyable for you. I've been there for the first 6 years of our marriage. But through enough discussions and my husband learning that he actually gets more enjoyment when his wife is enjoying it things are great now.

Give freely to him and you will see a wonderful change in time.

Yes this experiment is very hard to do! But you mentioned your religious upbringing, so pray to God that He will give you the strength to be generous to your husband even when you feel he doesn't deserve it!


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## mrsluvmyhub (Nov 28, 2016)

Just to add:
Sex is the primary way that your husband shows you that he loves you and the primary way he receives love from you. So remind yourself that he is trying to show you love. You may wish it were shown a different way, but he is communicating it in the way he can. Yes he should learn other ways to show his love as well, but that is out of your control. You choose what you do.


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## mrsluvmyhub (Nov 28, 2016)

Sorry for the triple post (can't work out how to edit).

I think more than once a week is perfectly reasonable. I have noticed that if we go a whole week that I am starting to feel a lot of negative feelings towards hubby and we are both being more argo with each other. Even if we've gone a week and neither have felt the desire, we still need to keep up with it regularly because that loss of connection allows the negative feelings to come. That's my experience. The marriage NEEDS the sex even if one or both of the spouses don't need it much.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

klemommy said:


> * Just for clarification, no, my husband has never become physical with me in any way. The times when he hits a wall or throws some type of small object at it are rare, but it does happen.* He was raised in a very abusive home, and as a result does suffer from issues from that, but one thing he is adamant about is to never physically harm a loved one. Since we were teenagers I have always been the one he went to for emotional support when he needed it. But as the years passed I began trying to get him to realize he has to be there for me too when I need support, but he does not handle it well. He either becomes angry(most likely) or starts hating himself(less likely, but it starts the spiral of me helping him emotionally again). As I age I believe my needs in a partner expand as I realize how unstable our uneven relationship dynamic is. I have come to him about it, even said that I was considering a divorce about 6 months ago, and then he will tell me he will try, that he doesn't want to lose me. And he does give more of an effort, small ones, for maybe a month, and then reverts back to the old ways. It seems like he is resistant to any help, whether it be counseling, or even just regularly discussing things between us without him becoming heated. For example, about two weeks ago I tried starting a light hearted discussion on progress(or lack thereof) over the last few months with our relationship and his exact words were, "This s*** again." The hardest part is that apart from sex and the deeper emotions, we are still good friends. We still can hangout just fine, even have fun, but as soon as the situation becomes more serious, we are terrible.


*It's that "first time" that I would be worried about, whereby his alcoholic or emotionally induced actions overtly surface, greatly to the point that they come to either an intentionally or unintentionally violent end, that they either will hurt you or your precious children physically or emotionally!

But from the purely emotional standpoint alone, I'd have to say that by your testimony alone, that the three of you are already reaping the dividends of being hurt by him on damned near a perpetual, daily basis!*


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

After asking the first hard question... Time for the second. How's the family finances?

If he's perceiving that he's paying for everything the entitlement fairy may be whispering things in his mind... what's his education level?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

klemommy said:


> But he told me that if we couldn't fix it and have sex more(not just do it, but actually initiated by me with passion) that he would get it from somebody else.


On average healthy couples have sex about twice a week. Some less and some more. 

Your husband can NOT force you to be passionate with him. He can be passionate for you and SHARE that with you, which in return may help you respond better to him. 

If he feels like he can just go get what he needs somewhere else and that women out there feel "passion" for men that are running away from their own lives, he will find a long line of women that will indeed accommodate him. Then he will wake up from having too much fun, not remember much and discover that his wallet is missing! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

He isn't healthy in how he expresses his frustration.

Sex isn't the issue but cooperation and communication are.

2x a week is low for us. We tend towards 5-7.

It would drop to zero if the level of disrespect and anger was what you two are experiencing.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

What is wonderful about him and makes you want to spend the rest of your life with him? What you have posted sounds very negative, but maybe you are leaving out all the good things?

From what you have posted I can completely understand why you don't want sex with him. 


How much sex people want / need varies all over the place. Twice a week is just enough for me to not feel to frustrated, 3-4 time a week would be ideal This assumes the rest of the relationship was good and balanced. I also assume sex is mutual, lots of variety and passion, and doing things (at the same time or alternate times) that each partner really enjoys.


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

mrsluvmyhub said:


> You mention your religious upbringing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You sound like my wife! We've been married for over 20 years now.

The husband of the OP reminds me a lot of me the first few years of my marriage. I, too, grew up in a dysfunctional and abusive environment. Slowly but surely, I grew up to be a product similar to what I saw growing up. That same person I swore I would never be because of the pain and anguish it caused the family I grew up in. Somehow, though, I did resemble that, and saw it as "normal" in my mind's eye. I knew I was wrong in my heart's eye, but I still did those things.

I'm definitely not trying to slight the OP, but the one thing (other than my conscience) that kept me from going elsewhere was my wife NEVER said no to sex. Looking back, and we all know hindsight is 20/20, I can see just how selfish I was, how abusive I was (though not physically), and how blind I was.

People can change, and I am living proof of that. It took my going to the altar and giving my heart to God for my eyes to truly open. My life did a complete 180 after that. I quit drinking and partying, quit going to bars, and quit going out with same people I hung around with. All these things I "thought" I would miss turned out to be things I don't want anymore. I thank God every day for the changes He made in me. I never considered myself a religious man until it happened to me.

I can truthfully say that I am truly at peace and happy now!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I feel sorry for you.

I avoided posting to your thread.

I find your story tough to read. I don't see any good answers.

My wife and I have sex a lot. How much is enough? Nearly every day. But my wife is always happy with me, for some unknown reason.

My wife's sister was in an abusive marriage. She got out of the hospital where they stitched up her lip, and she packed up the kids and left. My wife's father, her sisters step dad, was asked to help. He gave her money to get a place to live, then called the husband and told him where to come pick up his errant wife and his children. After all, God wants women to stay home with their husbands.

I do not like religion. I suspect people had been avoiding me because I am a black sheep, and had taken my wife out of the fold and not allowed her to participate in religion once she married me.

The next time that husband beat up my wife's sister, she came to live with us afterwards. She got divorced. I didn't care what the "Good Book" said about wives being obedient.

I don't think you want to get divorced. I think you want an answer to get your husband to listen to you, and care. He might, too. He isn't as bad as my ex brother in law.

As for people quoting the bible regarding sex, my wife's sister in law uses that to justify having sex only for procreation. When I told my brother in law he should get a vasectomy so he could stop popping babies he said he would never get to have sex again if he got a vasectomy.

You need to find what is reasonable for you. Personally I know when I was young I needed to have sex pretty much every day to keep from getting really grouchy, but I also did a good job of making sure my wife was always turned on. I knew before I got married that's what I needed, and let her know when we started dating it was a requirement. She was totally up for it. So our life is not a blueprint for anyone else.

I hate seeing women put upon by men. I wish you were happy. Good luck.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

mrsluvmyhub said:


> This means that it is wrong to say "No" to your spouse when they want sex, because your body belongs to them! And theirs to you!!


<Insert HUGE eye roll here.>


> 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer.


The OP's husband is NOT devoting himself to 'prayer' when he's not getting sex - he's having his little tantrums like the child he* is*. 

So much for _that_ theory.


> Sex is the primary way that your husband shows you that he loves you and the primary way he receives love from you. So remind yourself that he is trying to show you love. You may wish it were shown a different way, but he is communicating it in the way he can.


So you're saying men are such animals that they only know ONE way to show love - by getting naked for a romp in the sheets? With this line of thinking, shall I assume then that every guy who has a one-night stand with some drunken co-ed is showing her '_love_?' :rofl: LOL. I think it's REAL safe to say that the only 'love' he'd be feeling is a love for getting himself some.

But I can tell you this OP, I sure wouldn't be touching this man-child when he's constantly threatening to go out and get it elsewhere. He's a complete emotionally stunted fool who brings nothing positive to the table.

One of your biggest issues is your ages. Do you realize that your brains aren't even fully matured yet? They don't stop developing until you're 25. You seem to be growing but he's not. He still acts like a child. Sadly, he married at 21 and that's way too young for almost any male to be tied down. The chances for success are just not good when they marry that young.

Since he refuses to do anything to help this relationship (and whines like a child when you want to talk to him) you can either continue living in misery or decide you want better for yourself.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife says men's brains never quite develop into adulthood...

Sorry for my rambling post earlier. I just go kinda crazy when I see religion used to justify crazy things.

And since I am anti-religion people tend to just toss out anything I say about religion anyway, so I just ramble I guess.

Please don't let people use religion to tell you you should do things you are not comfortable with.

I am spiritual. I just think humans have no clue.

Please be well.


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## mrsluvmyhub (Nov 28, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> mrsluvmyhub said:
> 
> 
> > > 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer.
> ...


You butchered verse 5 and appear not to understand what it means. Not sure if that was on purpose or just your ignorance.

It means that the ONLY time it is okay for a Christian (or Bible believer of another persuasion) to say "No" to sex is if both the spouses agree that it's okay AND the reason they are saying "No" is because they are devoting themselves to prayer for the period of no sex. The OPs husband isn't saying no at all!



> So you're saying men are such animals that they only know ONE way to show love - by getting naked for a romp in the sheets?


Animals only have sex for procreation. Men are NOT designed that way. Type into Google "define primary" to fix your confusion.

I am talking about inside marriage, as this is a marriage forum and the OP is married. Not about one night stands, which are always purely self serving.


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## crocus (Apr 8, 2016)

To clarify, refusing to discuss it with you is also just another way of controlling you.
So is getting angry so you drop the subject. Or changing the subject.
Still spending time with him and having fun isn't acceptable on your part. Look up the 180. It works. Quit accepting unacceptable behaviour but on your own terms. 
Sex? Starfish. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

mrsluvmyhub said:


> You mention your religious upbringing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your post is a "rare" one on TAM. Especially, coming from a women.

You sound like my Grandma...on giving advice to young marrieds. 

And I suspect that this will work.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

klemommy said:


> For example, about two weeks ago I tried starting a light hearted discussion on progress(or lack thereof) over the last few months with our relationship and his exact words were, "This s*** again."


klemommy, read your quote as a third party. The reply of "This s*** again" is disrespectful and not acceptable in a relationship that can work. You're the only one trying to actually fix things here. He just wants what he wants and pitches verbal fits when he isn't getting it.


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