# Do you allow your spouse/SO to casual friendships of the opposite sex?



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

*Do you allow/agree with your spouse/SO to casual friendships of the opposite sex?*

This is something my husband and I made very clear in our first year of marriage. We do not allow/agree with mutually casual friendships of the opposite sex outside of work. Meaning no frequent phone calls, chatting on Internet/instant messaging or emailing. Neither one of us text. This was all before Facebook took place. I don't mind old friends from high school or acquaintances as friends of opposite sex as long as there is no frequent chatting. This has worked out well for us for the last 12 years. 

How about you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blissful (Nov 14, 2011)

we're the same. in fact neither of us are even on facebook, and we're in our 30's. our reasoning is that if the person was that important to us they would have our cell numbers or email addresses. but that's just us.

My H is my best friend & i'm his (well that's what he lead me to believe!!), so i don't relly feel the need to go outside of the marriage to find that emotional connection. You can be sure that if i found him doing that I'd put a stop to it in a hurry!! But luckily in the last 11years we've known each other I haven't had to!


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree.
We have no casual friends individually anyway. All of our friends are friends with both of us.


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

My ex husbands best friend is female. They've been friends for over 20 yrs. I had zero issues with them talking, but he did tell me right up front that he wouldn't go to the movies or out to dinner (which they had usually done when he was single once a week) with her without me. While I appreciated that, I wasn't worried about it. They'd been friends for a long time, it was basically a brother/sister relationship, I'm not saying that it wouldn't happen, but I trusted both of them and as far as I know, nothing had ever happend, nor to this day.

I'm okay with my S/O having friends of the opposite sex, especially if those people have been around my S/O for most of their lives. What I wouldn't be okay with is if my S/O met someone recently and became "best friends" with them or if the friendship was hidden from me. I'm certainly not saying that long term friendships can't become affairs or something along those lines, but odds are like in my ex husbands case, if things where going to happen they'd of happend long before I ever entered the picture.

JMO


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I just can't think of any way opposite-sex friendships would be appropriate within marriage... I think exceptions to this rule are extremely rare, but I don't doubt it does happen. I think men and women sexualize the opposite sex more than they realize and I would not be comfortable in such a situation... Just me, though...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

I don't choose my wife's friends (much less allow who she can be friends with) and she doesn't choose mine. If I were worried about the appropriateness of a friendship, I'd be comfortable letting her know and would expect her to address my concerns. I'd do the same for her. Fortunately, it hasn't been an issue in our marriage. Any opposite sex friends we've had have been mutual friendships.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> I don't choose my wife's friends (much less allow who she can be friends with) and she doesn't choose mine. If I were worried about the appropriateness of a friendship, I'd be comfortable letting her know and would expect her to address my concerns. I'd do the same for her. Fortunately, it hasn't been an issue in our marriage. Any opposite sex friends we've had have been mutual friendships.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


+1 :iagree:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> This is something my husband and I made very clear in our first year of marriage. We do not allow casual friendships of the opposite sex outside of work. Meaning no frequent phone calls, chatting on Internet/instant messaging or emailing. Neither one of us text. This was all before Facebook took place. I don't mind old friends from high school or acquaintances as friends of opposite sex as long as there is no frequent chatting. This has worked out well for us for the last 12 years.
> 
> How about you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would say that neither of us have *close* opposite sex friends. It sounds like what you are defining. Nothing frequent. I actually turned chat off on my FB.

Old HS friends can be lethal. That said I have a few on FB. None of them did I date. I have no past GFs / Lovers on my FB. Any contact with EXs would be a nono.


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## CalifGuy (Nov 2, 2011)

My wife and I do not have friends of the opposite sex. This has been mostly her choice, as I did have a couple female friends when we started dating but one of them had been an ex girlfriend so I understood her concern there and respected her wishes that I break off contact.

When we do have communications with the opposite sex, we try to remember to disclose it so that it does not appear we are being secretive and we do have about 100 common Facebook friends, as well as each other's account access (again, her choice).

It does get a little messy sometimes when the random female FB friend gets a little too friendly with me and I just try to back way off whenever that happens.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> This is something my husband and I made very clear in our first year of marriage. We do not allow casual friendships of the opposite sex outside of work. Meaning no frequent phone calls, chatting on Internet/instant messaging or emailing. Neither one of us text. This was all before Facebook took place. I don't mind old friends from high school or acquaintances as friends of opposite sex as long as there is no frequent chatting. This has worked out well for us for the last 12 years.
> 
> How about you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We've never discussed it but we don't do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerlyCareFree (Nov 25, 2011)

I don't allow it, and he wouldn't like it either. I don't blame him and I'm fine with it, so is he. 
People would think that this causes friction in the relationship but it was an understanding on both parts pre-marriage and it's a normal way of life. There are so many factors when your spouse, either male or female, start socializing with the opposite sex. You may trust your spouse, but a lot of people tend to under-estimate the influence of the opposite sex. Besides, I don't think it's appropriate. It would have to be very special circumstances..for example, he knew the person way before we met, but since he didn't have any lady friends when we met, it would be weird if he started talking to other women now. People can say what they want, but it works wonderfully for us. You'll find that the biggest complainers about this issue are men because they want to defend their right to have that wiggle room to screw up. I get slammed by men on this topic all the time, but I don't give a sh*t. It's my life and I'm protecting what I have. I think spouses are too trusting, then they wonder why their spouse cheated, and are shocked that their life was turned upside down. I'm only 39 years old, not religious, but I have old fashioned values, and in the old days spouses being chummy chummy with the opposite sex was innapropriate. I don't understand how people these days REFUSE to make the connection.

look at this way.. most of the BS here are in this situation because they trusted their spouse with the opposite sex. If they didn't, they wouldn't be here right now. If that's not in your face proof, I don't know what the hell is. :scratchhead:

Don't let society dictate what kind of relationship you and your spouse should have. Do what makes your marriage work for you.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Allow? What is this a marriage or a dictatorship?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sanity said:


> Allow? What is this a marriage or a dictatorship?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

lol


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## FormerlyCareFree (Nov 25, 2011)

There always seems to be someone to point that out. Can't just use common sense to figure out what it really means. 

Yes, "allow". That happens in REAL marriages, in the REAL world.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Sanity said:


> Allow? What is this a marriage or a dictatorship?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This was a mutual agreement between the both of us. My husband and I have a very good marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerlyCareFree (Nov 25, 2011)

Exactly, but here you have to spell out each and every word. If you notice there are some senior members here who go around picking apart posts. It's so annoying and obnoxious.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

In the context of this discussion I see the term allow to mean agree or be ok with. As no one can control another but can control ones own boundaries. They either allow it in thier marriage or not. That can be seen as a boundary. A spouse can choose to be unfaithful or not. Where that boundary is varies from couple to couple. But to go against your spouses wishes is being unfaithful in itself. Reasonable or not.

Boundaries. 

So if my wife pursued male friendships against my wishes she would be unfaithful. Vice versa of course. I can choose to allow that in my marriage or not. I would find it a deal breaker.

I had an EA. My wife called me on it. I learned I cannot have close female friends.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If my husband was doing any of the things you describe in your OP, I would kick him out.

This, though, is because of a history of infidelity - he did those very things which led to him cheating.

Neither of us really have any close friends, much less of the opposite sex. We have acquaintances, none of whom we do anything with outside of work or team sports or social get togethers. Neither of us is on facebook. We both text, but pretty much only each other and our kids.

Before he cheated, we had no guidelines in place, but we did have a few discussions about it as a result of me being cheated on in my first marriage. Both of us saw me as kind of over reacting and feeling jealous for no real reason. Because of that, I rarely voiced any concerns about him doing things like asking other women to dance, which I was uncomfortable with.


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## FormerlyCareFree (Nov 25, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> In the context of this discussion I see the term allow to mean agree or be ok with. As no one can control another but can control ones own boundaries. They either allow it in thier marriage or not. That can be seen as a boundary. A spouse can choose to be unfaithful or not. Where that boundary is varries from couple to couple. But to go against your spouses wishes is being unfaithful in itself. Reasonable or not.
> 
> Boundaries.
> 
> ...


Thank you for properly articulating the context of the word "allow".


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

FormerlyCareFree said:


> Thank you for properly articulating the context of the word "allow".


The devil is in the details. In this stuff nuances mean a lot. How one interprets these nuances matters. I am merely stating how I took this statement. I would not have chosen allow personally. It has a connotation that belongs in a parent child relationshio and not one of a partnership. So I chose to look past that and see "allow" in a more liberal sense and focus on the having friends in marriage aspect. I think focusing on the word allow detracts from the point. But that is just my opinion. I can see why this is a hot button for some though.


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## FormerlyCareFree (Nov 25, 2011)

> I chose to look past that and see "allow" in a more liberal sense



I guess it's wrong for me to assume other adults to do the same.


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## The_Swan (Nov 20, 2011)

No.
We have mutual friends of both sexes but him having a female friend or me having a male friend that the other doesn't hang out with isn't permitted.

I recall the first time we set this boundary about 10 years ago: 

Within a few months of us being married, an ex-girlfriend called him. He hadn't heard from her in years but she has been known to sleep with married men. She claimed she wanted to be friends. 
I told my husband that ex's weren't allowed and I made him tell her that he is married and she was not permitted to contact him any longer.

I don't think he would have intended to have an affair, but it could have happened and I stopped it before that possibility was even close. 

Last we heard from a mutual friend of ours, his ex was still hanging out in bars picking up men.


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## MNM (Nov 30, 2011)

We both have lots of friends of the opposite sex online (facebook, forums, etc), however, I don't think either of us would be comfortable with the other having private outings with the opposite sex. I think as long as there is transparency and good communication it is fine.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

We do allow casual and close opposite sex friends. We have both been of the same mind on this ever since I took my now wife (we were dating at the time) to see a good friend of mine and help with work at her condo. Before we were married we talked about it. To me both spouses agreeing to the boundary is the important thing otherwise the stage is set for hurt feelings and accusations of controlling behavior.

Even if both spouses agree to opposite sex friends they need to be careful because it is clear that the friendships can become out of control swiftly. I agree to the need for a spouse to disallow certain “friendships” or situations. This is not to be arbitrarily controlling but when a specific danger is recognized so that the marriage can be safeguarded. This requires from each spouse a high devotion to the marriage above all and high respect for a spouses opinion. If you can’t abide by a judgment call from your spouse for the sake of the marriage then opposite sex friends are not for you.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MNM said:


> We both have lots of friends of the opposite sex online (facebook, forums, etc), however, I don't think either of us would be comfortable with the other having private outings with the opposite sex. I think as long as there is transparency and good communication it is fine.


Me & my husband "think" like MNM above here . 

Sometimes I hesitate to answer these types of questions as I feel many may get the wrong idea. 

1st let me say.....my husband has NEVER done anything to make me jealous our entire marraige & dating experience -since our teens. I have never distrusted him for a second, he was never the flirting type either. Neither was I ...... although my "Gift of GAB" is way beyond my husbands.... I thoroughly enjoy talking to people.... women and men. He knows this , he sees this when we have friends over, when we are out. I don't get off the Farm too much being a SAHM, so when I do, well it is a joy and I am ever thankful my husband is not the overly jealous type. It would likely drive me insane. And neither am I.... as he has never given me reason to be. 

I enjoy a good debate sometimes. And he allows me the freedom to chat, to talk, to engage with whomever I desire, he trusts my judgement. Yes, I pretty near have free reign. I do this on forums --look at my post #'s! And yes, Pms are fine with him as well. And so is FB chat, yahoo chat.

True communicative Transparency should never be under-estimated in a marraige... 

I literally share EVERYTHING with my husband....yeah, sometimes I should have even kept my mouth shut ! But he wouldn't want it any other way, he has told me so -he will take the "bad" with the "good".....there is no part of my heart he is not tuned into it, I couldn't even keep something from him if I tried- my conscience wouldn't allow it... it would be like trying to swallow a jagged pill, it would get stuck in my throat, It would never make it to my stomach. For this reason, not that I am perfect (who is?).... but I am HONEST... to a fault...that is WHY he trusts ME so much.... so from his end, he is not worried about me either! 

Now granted, I am sure this helps....neither of us has ever BEEN with another, we have no Exs that was any more than "puppy love", neither of us has ever hurt the other with the opposite sex , so I can not relate to the pain that many feel on this forum of betrayal & distrust, it is not a part of our experience. ...

...... I am sure this is why I have no qualms with my husband befriending his favorite stripper on FB (for a time we enjoyed strip clubs together) or him worried about me chatting for a half hour with a young guy from my church about his relationships. Yeah, it happens, he wanted my advice on his profile on a dating site so I could help him spice it up! 

We are utterly fine with both of those scenerios. 

We have never sat down (in 30 yrs together) & talked about any "rules" in these things... I would say they are ....."*written on our hearts*". I fully TRUST (given his history) he wouldn't do anything to hurt me or compromise our marraige, and HE fully TRUSTS (given my history & transparency) I wouldn't do anything to hurt him, or cross emotional boundaries with another - because we both SO treasure what we have together..... He FEELS this everyday from me- as I do him. 

He would simply KNOW if I had a "divided" heart.... it would show in my face, my actions, I am one who wears my heart on my sleeve, I am not capable of hiding myself from him, he KNOWS me all too well. 

We are a 'Union", every one of our friends- since our teens, married or single, sees us as such, and they are friends with BOTH of us equally. 

My husband has helped single girlfriends out at her house, on her car, without my presence, I have went to a concert with one of our single guy friends -with our kids, there has been times I was with him without my husband, like if we had Roofers on our roof-or Tree cutters in the yard, once he came to stack wood & I talked to him outside for hours helping - he would come to our house so I was not alone with strange men outside-while my husband was at work. Never an issue with either one of us. 

I can, however , very much understand WHY others have such rules in thier marraiges -if they have been burned in the past with hiding, secrecy, others not respecting the marital boundaries -leading to emotional cheating.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

I just wanted to clarify my previous post. When I say "Is this a marriage or dictatorship" I mean neither spouse has the "right" to allow or tell their spouse how to act, feel, think, fart, etc. What we control is ourselves and our reactions but if you feel the need to "allow" your spouse certain things then you are risking resentment. 

Having said this, I understand the concept of boundries and expectations. When you get married the expectation is that your spouse will behave in a manner that is respecful of the the marriage. 

If you have to tell your spouse "hey do not come home drunk at 3am either other day" then perhaps you choose a poor partner. If you constantly have to tell your spouse to stop being verbally and physically abusive you can "allow" yourself to remain in that marriage or not. 

See folks life is about choices. You weigh the pros and con's of a person and choose according. I personally choose poorly. I let a person "allow" certain things she found "safe" for her insecurities. 

Husbands and wives should be allowed to make their own decisions and concerns should be approached from a logical standpoint. Ladies, if you constantly have to tell your husband "hey stop meeting up with hot loose women at the bar and coming home late" then you should make a choice to discuss this with your husband and outline your expectations in a calm, not controlling manner and see what he does. If he continues then perhaps you chose poorly.

Be honest upfront about your expectations and don't move the goalpost mid game. I went through that for years. It began with exw expressing concern with my friends (males mainly) to "I'm don't want you(allow) hanging out with those friends anymore or i'll withhold sex and pout until you break."


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Hmmmmm. Allow.

I used to "not care," as I didn't want to be perceived as controlling*. Several EAs or boundary slips or whatever you'd like to call it later... let's just say I'm much more uneasy if she's suddenly got a new guy pal, and more likely to speak my mind if something is out of whack. She seems to be better re: boundaries now and doesn't seem to put herself in situations where boundaries would come under fire.

However, I used the word "seem" a lot, and that pretty much says it all, doesn't it?

But, no, I've never officially said "you can't be friends" with anyone.



*Particularly as she's never really had a lot of female friends; she's always been more at ease with guys, so I never wanted to make a big deal out of it, even if I thought that something seemed a little off


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I truly apologize for saying the word "allow". I should of worded the title and thread differently and said "agreed upon".

Under no circumstances do my husband and I ever tell each other what to do or how to act. Neither one of us is what you consider controlling. My husband and I have a fabulous relationship and are very supportive of one another. Heck, in the last 13 years neither of is ever raised our voice to one another as well. We communicate very well with each other and we set "our boundaries" early in our marriage. This was one of them.

I was only curious due to all of the EA/PA's I've been reading about on this site. It starts with communication with the opposite sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Hmmmmm. Allow.
> 
> I used to "not care," as I didn't want to be perceived as controlling*. Several EAs or boundary slips or whatever you'd like to call it later... let's just say I'm much more uneasy if she's suddenly got a new guy pal, and more likely to speak my mind if something is out of whack. She seems to be better re: boundaries now and doesn't seem to put herself in situations where boundaries would come under fire.
> 
> ...


I suggest you guys do His Needs Her Needs together and do the boundary setting where you discuss, agree upon and implement boundaries. This could help with the "seem" stuff.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's all about boundaries that you and your spouse decide on together.

There's not a simple recipe for this that fits every couple.

Talk.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

My wife and I each have friends of the opposite sex and neither of us would dream of interfering with those friendships.

The dynamic is different though. I've gone on two day hiking/rocking climbing trips with male friends, but wouldn't dream of going on a similar trip with a female friend.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I truly apologize for saying the word "allow". I should of worded the title and thread differently and said "agreed upon".
> 
> Under no circumstances do my husband and I ever tell each other what to do or how to act. Neither one of us is what you consider controlling. My husband and I have a fabulous relationship and are very supportive of one another. Heck, in the last 13 years neither of is ever raised our voice to one another as well. We communicate very well with each other and we set "our boundaries" early in our marriage. This was one of them.
> 
> ...



Actually I think your wording has illuminated a subtlety with opposite sex friends. Nobody wants to be completely controlled. The type of dictator control that Sanity talks about is excessive, toxic and does not belong in a marriage.

But a marriage is really a union of two individuals who then begin to act with unity. That unity is somehow decided upon whether stated or unstated; it constitutes a negotiation of goals which may be described as boundary setting, allowing/disallowing or perhaps in other ways as well. Whatever terminology is chosen the result is that there is some sort of mutual acquiescence to marriage goals. Both partners should act for the good of the marriage and trust each other to do so.

The problem with an opposite sex friendships is that they can suddenly escalate and become more than a friendship. So I think for couples that have opposite sex friendships they should place their trust in their partner to make a judgment call on the appropriateness of the friendship. This allows a short-circuit of a runaway relationship. If the bikerwidow’s husband had listened and respected her call on his biker friend the problem may not have gotten out of hand.

I may view control differently than some but that is because I am also a climber. I regularly place my life in the hands of my climbing partners. As partners we control each others behaviors to a certain extent to ensure our mutual safety or attainment of a desired goal. You place your trust in your partners decisions on a climb and you need to deal with them. If a partner is not doing something correctly you damn well bring it up because you might get hurt or worse. You double check everything for each others safety. You do this not because you are control freaks but because you recognize that everyone make mistakes and you need to minimize the effect of one. 

I don’t allow my partners to clip into old fixed gear because you don’t know if it will hold a fall. My main climbing partner respected my wish and he never clipped it with me but would continue to do so with others. One day when climbing with his wife he clipped a fixed cam which pulled out and nearly caused a fall. I saw it happen and ever after he never clips old fixed gear. After that our climbing trust was greater. We understand each others weaknesses and compensate for them just as a married couple does.

I think a lot of the climbing partner relationship can be used to understand how a couple in a marriage should work together. Some control is a good thing, too much is toxic.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I suggest you guys do His Needs Her Needs together and do the boundary setting where you discuss, agree upon and implement boundaries. This could help with the "seem" stuff.


We've firmly stated our boundaries (now). I do honestly think she's adhering to them.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

that_girl said:


> It's all about boundaries that you and your spouse decide on together.
> 
> There's not a simple recipe for this that fits every couple.
> 
> Talk.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I truly apologize for saying the word "allow". I should of worded the title and thread differently and said "agreed upon".
> 
> Under no circumstances do my husband and I ever tell each other what to do or how to act. Neither one of us is what you consider controlling. My husband and I have a fabulous relationship and are very supportive of one another. Heck, in the last 13 years neither of is ever raised our voice to one another as well. We communicate very well with each other and we set "our boundaries" early in our marriage. This was one of them.
> 
> ...


I think that most affairs start as friendships. I think most are not intentional ... at least at first.

I had a workplace EA. I was an idiot. However, I was not intentionally looking. I was working long hours. So I was not around for my wife to meet my needs or me hers. Until I came out of withdrawal I saw them as a close friend only. But afterwards I realized it was heading the wrong way. I was allowing some needs to be met in this friendship that were inappropriate. Since it is chemical it feels ok even when it is not. Soooooo. I now have bnetter boundaries and at least for me have learned to never put myself in that situation again. My wife saw this happening and called me on it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> We've firmly stated our boundaries (now). I do honestly think she's adhering to them.


Cool. I also believe in transparency. My wife and I can access each other email and FB. In the practical sense no one looks BUT they can if they wish and one would do that if there was a feeling to do so. Then if a partner closes off access it is a red flag. Catching an EA early is key.
I trust my wife ... not other men.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> My wife and I each have friends of the opposite sex and neither of us would dream of interfering with those friendships.
> 
> The dynamic is different though. I've gone on two day hiking/rocking climbing trips with male friends, but wouldn't dream of going on a similar trip with a female friend.


:iagree:

I don't care if my wife has a male friend. I do care about the nature of her friendships, particularly if it involves a male friend. 
Male friendship = fine.
Male friendship involving frequent texting/emailing/calling, out for drinks/ or two-day hiking trips = not so much.


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## losing_hope (Dec 1, 2011)

I don't think it has anything to do with the sex of the friend.

A straight person can have an inappropriate relationship with a person of the same sex. I would even go as far as saying the inappropriate relationship can be a close relative.

When the other person becomes more important than your spouse, then it's crossing the line. 

Only recently have I realized how big of an effect communication, or lack thereof has.

Trying to limit your spouse's friendships is not really dealing with the problem. It only masks it. If your relationship is healthy, and there is communication, friends (same sex or opposite sex), will not be a problem.


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## Waits4Mr.Right (Oct 29, 2011)

Do you trust your spouse or not? That would be the real issue to me. I don't have time to "chase", or "babysit" a grown man and his interactions with other people male OR female. If he's going to cheat, he's going to no matter what. Putting a "leash" on him will only make him want to break free.
Having mutual believe systems inside a commited relationship I think is really important. Trust and talking is always key to any relationship.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Marriage is not about blind trust. It is about love and respect. Understanding the dynamics of an EA is key. EAs are chemical. Friendships turn into EAs often enough unintentially. It is not about trust. It feels ok. Yes, that is naive. But it happens a lot. It takes good boundaries and a loving spouse who knows the signs of an EA to keep friendships from becoming inappropriate. 

Just my opinion but I think blind trust is both naive and frankly lazy. In no way is it as simple as "if they are going to cheat they will". Much more often it is a friendship where needs are being met and the oxytocin and dopamine support the relationship when a sober person would clearly see what is happening. Talking and being aware of behavior is part of the observation which can help with this. Transparency is important. Boundaries need to be properly agreed upon. Often opposite sex relationships turn into a dating ritual outside of the marriage. Having close opposite sex friends is playing with fire. YMMV.


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Just my opinion but I think blind trust is both naive and frankly lazy. In no way is it as simple as "if they are going to cheat they will". Much more often it is a friendship where needs are being met and the oxytocin and dopamine support the relationship when a sober person would clearly see what is happening. Talking and being aware of behavior is part of the observation which can help with this. Transparency is important. Boundaries need to be properly agreed upon. Often opposite sex relationships turn into a dating ritual outside of the marriage. Having close opposite sex friends is playing with fire. YMMV.


Can't there be a middle ground between blind trust and archaic (IMO) rules about relationships with members of the opposite sex? I'd like to think so. By all means a spouse should be aware of (and intervene in) any inappropriate friendships, but does that line have to be drawn at no friendship at all? Honestly, if I felt I had to worry about my wife hooking up with every guy with whom she interacts, I'd 1) Go crazy and 2) Rethink my choice in spouses.
The notion that an opposite sex friendship is "playing with fire" doesn't jibe with me, because it makes the assumption that infidelity is circumstantial. Put anyone in the right circumstance, and they're bound to cheat. I don't buy that. I think infidelity is an intentional choice, and one who wants to cheat will.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I feel these are all necessary to not put "a leash" on our spouse....

1. Open free flowing Communication with each other

2. Transparency with sharing ALL -happenings at work, conversations with others -because we want to share everything with the one we love. There is no hiding in love. 

3. Anothers history of faithfulness -this should speak something of anothers character, it generally does.

4. How happening a couples sex life IS- never underestimate the "bonding hormones" in sex- and alot of it !

5. And the Emotional connection FELT in & outside of the bedroom 

6. and the sheer enjoyment of spending time with each other 

7. Keeping the Physcial attraction alive would be helpful also !

....if these things are all going on in a marraige, likely noone outside of that union is going to upset that happy fullfilled applecart... they simply wouldn't have a prayer. 

If all marraiges concentrated on doing those 7 things, I doubt much of these things would even need a discussion.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I feel these are all necessary to not put "a leash" on our spouse....
> 
> 1. Open free flowing Communication with each other
> 
> ...


I really agree with your list. Everything you listed is very important! 

Especially, with people keeping their spouses on a "leash". It's wrong and very controlling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

My wife can befriend anyone male, female or transgendered. She can talk, private chat with any of these people of FB as well. If one of her male friends and her went to the movies alone, I would be cool with it. If she leaves the room to talk on her cell with another guy, thats ok.

The same goes for me, except for some of the more attractive female friends. Wifey gets a little jealous of them, but admits its in her head.


I cannot control the situation. If she wants to cheat on me in any way shape or form, she can, no matter how much I could control her interactions with other people, she could still find a way.

Besides, I believe I read somewhere that *solid boundaries arent about what is and isnt acceptable spousal behaviour. Its about peace of mind.*


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I really agree with your list. Everything you listed is very important!
> 
> Especially, with people keeping their spouses on a "leash". It's wrong and very controlling.


Ya know , I was coming back here with the intention of deleting that, I figured someone would get offended by the "Leash" reference. Glad to see you, the orginal poster... didn't! 

I think so much needs to be stated about NOT keeping secrets in marrages --EVER. But what can easily put a FORK in this beautiful idea is.....far too many spouses are overly jealous and JUMP to the wrong conclusions if we do share EVERYTHING, so people start hiding, it is easier - I just find it a real shame. 

The keeping of secrets IS the beginning of EVERY EA, noone can argue me that one! 

Our spouses have the right to KNOW , even in the very beginning stages that our *heart *is slipping ... no amount of RULES is going to stop that slipping. If they want it bad enough, they will find a way to BE with another. So again, honest heartfelt communcation is key & handling the ROOTS of the marriage. There is no other cure, in my opinion. 

I love this article >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/articles/993-sex-lies-secrets-secrecy-destroying-your-marriage.html


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## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I feel these are all necessary to not put "a leash" on our spouse....
> 
> 1. Open free flowing Communication with each other
> 
> ...


That's a great list. I'm a firm believer that affairs don't happen simply because the opportunity for an affair presents itself. It's more a symptom of a troubled marriage than a cause.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> Can't there be a middle ground between blind trust and archaic (IMO) rules about relationships with members of the opposite sex? I'd like to think so. By all means a spouse should be aware of (and intervene in) any inappropriate friendships, but does that line have to be drawn at no friendship at all? Honestly, *if I felt I had to worry about my wife hooking up with every guy with whom she interacts, I'd 1) Go crazy and 2) Rethink my choice in spouses.*
> The notion that an opposite sex friendship is "playing with fire" doesn't jibe with me, because it makes the assumption that infidelity is circumstantial. Put anyone in the right circumstance, and they're bound to cheat. I don't buy that. I think infidelity is an intentional choice, and one who wants to cheat will.


It is a continuum my friend. That is my point. Many folks just say either you trust them or you don't. I was addressing the black and white comment. Trust is earned and is supported by beahvior and transparency. Men and women still hook up. Nothing archaic about it. Yes it is trendy to think otherwise. But trendy is often naive. In this case for sure.

Choice is very important in a spouse. Having agreed upon boundaries supports trust. Again if one is lazy and naive they an go with trust or not. There are shaders of gray. One can make a good choice when they marry that 23 year old woman. That same 23 year old woman, a well intentioned woman may be in a different mindset at 30 after she has a few small children and the pressures of marriage. She may be vulnerable to an affair and seek out another man's attention. If the man is a predator he will become her friend and go from there.

If your wife is effectively dating another guy, then I contend that the husband is naive and lazy for that type of trust. No matter the character of the woman. It comes down to appropriate boundaries and behavior. Risky behavior is flirting with an EA. Again, most people who are involved in an EA did not go looking for an EA. It is those archaic chemicals in our brains that do this. Also why in the world would one trust the OM? It is not like an EA is a rare thing. Most people don't even know what one is. They just think it is a simple friendship and ok because it feels so good. They do not see i until they go through withdrawal.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ya know , I was coming back here with the intention of deleting that, I figured someone would get offended by the "Leash" reference. Glad to see you, the orginal poster... didn't!
> 
> I think so much needs to be stated about NOT keeping secrets in marrages --EVER. But what can easily put a FORK in this beautiful idea is.....far too many spouses are overly jealous and JUMP to the wrong conclusions if we do share EVERYTHING, so people start hiding, it is easier - I just find it a real shame.
> 
> ...


Again, I completely agree. Great article!

Communication is so extremely important in every marriage. My husband knows me better than anyone else that knows me. He's better then any girl "best" friend that I have. I'm very grateful that we both communicate every night to one another during our snuggling time. It's a great bonding experience as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

FrankKissel said:


> That's a great list. I'm a firm believer that affairs don't happen simply because the opportunity for an affair presents itself. It's more a symptom of a troubled marriage than a cause.


Good marriages are not immune to affairs. I am a firm believer that there is much you can do to reduce the risks. That said, there is no marriage that has no pressures. A husband can meet 90% of the wife's needs most of the time and there can be the right circumstances where an OM is meeting 5% of the needs and there can be a full blown affair. The OM does no heavy lifting. He is only a source of oxytocin and dopamine. The husband is real world. The OM is a fantasy.

I totally agree with SA that these are the things that need to be done. But the has to be boundaries. What they are hs to be agreed upon by the couple. Again it is not about trying to control a spouse who wants to cheat. It is about helping your spouse. Anyone can become infatuated with another. They do not see it, but we can observe it.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> *I think that most affairs start as friendships. * I think most are not intentional ... at least at first.


I would agree most affairs start as friendships but that does not mean most friendships send up as affairs. 

Of course, in this context we are speaking of opposite gender friendships or friendships with others that could conceivably become physical (so as not to exclude our gay and lesbian population).

I think that is the assumption that many make that fires up this friendship debate. 

As many others have pointed out in this discussion, this really is something for the two partners to work out what their comfort level is concerning friendships outside the relationship. There is not single right answer.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Jebus there's like 3-4 versions of this thread lol

But yes my wife and I both have OSFs and it's never been a problem. We have boundaries and a system in place however which I discussed in the other thread


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Jebus there's like 3-4 versions of this thread lol
> 
> But yes my wife and I both have OSFs and it's never been a problem. We have boundaries and a system in place however which I discussed in the other thread


I started this thread over a year ago.lol. December 2011.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh crap... necroed lol


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