# Would really love some sound, unbiased advice



## endoftheroad

1st, thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm sure there are many other things you could be doing right now.
I'm 38. My wife is 35. We have been married almost 14 years, and together almost 19. We have 2 kids. 5 & 10. Both awesome.
I could make this a book if I wanted, so let me try to sum it up and we'll go from there.
My wife has decided, gradually over the past couple years, that the man she fell in love with (supposedly) is no longer the man she wants to spend the rest of her life with.
She treats me like **** 90% of the time, and could care less about how I feel.
I knew we were having problems, but i did not realize that in this time she had gotten to the point where she just didn't care anymore. She has 2 kids and works full time as well. So she has plenty of things to do. To have to do anything to make me happy just isn't in her schedule. So I am basically a recluse when i am not working. When i am in her presence she talks down to me. As if i am one of the kids. She has no respect for me anymore.
At the same time, the sex has been long gone. The last time I tried to kiss her, she backed away. It was like I wasn't kissing the same woman anymore. She was never very sexual. Im sure it something to do with me, because she seems pretty willing to let me go and head for greener pastures. saying it would be better for both of us. we'd both be happier.
I don't agree. I didn't get married to give up after almost 20 years. Especially because i love my wife and kids and want to keep the family together.
But nothing I can say or do will make her the woman she was so many years ago. and she gets really upset when i put a time frame on anything. apparently living with my mother for a month at my age isn't enough for her, and getting a place of my own is not the direction she thinks i should go in...while not living or being wanted at home.
Should I let her go, or keep playing the roll of the husband who does whatever the wife wants to make her happy, but know that my wife isn't even a cool room mate?

EndoftheRoad i guess


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## Shaggy

I would strongly suggest you read Married Mans Sex Life by Kay Athol. It's badly named since it isnt about sex, but about finding the right balance of being the man in the relationship.

I would also ask, has your wife been making any changes? New clothes , loosing weight, more time online? New friends?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## costa200

> When i am in her presence she talks down to me.


And you expect her to give you kisses and sex? Why do you allow it? First time she did this should have been the last.



> I would strongly suggest you read Married Mans Sex Life by Kay Athol.


:iagree:


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## KathyBatesel

Think back to when you were that young'un, EOTR. Were you a complacent guy who backed down and kissed butt? It sounds like your wife has lost respect for you, and may be wanting to or already seeing someone else. 

If I was in your shoes, I'd do exactly the opposite of what you're doing. I'd tell her there's no way in hell she'll take my children from me, that I'll help her pack her bags, but she should be aware that I will not forget that she abandoned her family and betrayed the oath she made when we married. 

I wouldn't allow her to treat me with any kind of disrespect, either. Obviously, you don't want to have major scenes in front of your children or find arguments that escalate, but you have a choice on how you address her unpleasant treatment. You can hone in on what she's doing in a way that resonates with her. "Do you mean to teach our children that it's ok to talk to loved ones the way you're talking to me?" 

Do not offer cooperation and acceptance for bad behaviors.


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## Janie

I'd recommend reading the recommended books, spending time on this forum, finding solitude to reach your inner thoughts & feelings. When you feel settled inside & convicted about who you are & what you want - then act. 

Until then, take the time to gather yourself. If you act now, you risk scatter-shot actions which will lead to further lack of respect. It is time to take charge of yourself, figure out your personal boundaries, then enforce then. Not one moment before.

IMHO


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## endoftheroad

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Shaggy said:


> I would strongly suggest you read Married Mans Sex Life by Kay Athol. It's badly named since it isnt about sex, but about finding the right balance of being the man in the relationship.
> 
> I would also ask, has your wife been making any changes? New clothes , loosing weight, more time online? New friends?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Work friends whom she has become closer with over the past couple years. All of whom I'm sure tell her she can find better. Hell, her sister told her don't worry she will help her find someone. 
Which hurts like Hell, cause I'm not a bad guy. Never abusive, never cheated...its just bs. Imo 
And the cloths. She is hot. For her age especially. All I ever see her in is sweats. She doesn't like or ever give me the chances to see her naked. But the sexy undies I see in the vicorias secret bag are not for comfort. And I won't ever see them. So who is she impressing? 
She's way too concerned about her tan. Knowing I don't give a f, she has to be trying to impress someone. 

I will look for these books suggested. I can also answer any questions or get more in depth if it would help get some honest opinions and advice.
Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Shaggy said:


> I would strongly suggest you read Married Mans Sex Life by Kay Athol. It's badly named since it isnt about sex, but about finding the right balance of being the man in the relationship.
> 
> I would also ask, has your wife been making any changes? New clothes , loosing weight, more time online? New friends?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Read these books to open your eyes. There on kindle. Here are the site links.

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have.


No More Mr. Nice Guy

Divorce Busting® - How to Save Your Marriage, Solve Marriage Problems, and Stop Divorce

Good luck.


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> Work friends whom she has become closer with over the past couple years. All of whom I'm sure tell her she can find better. Hell, her sister told her don't worry she will help her find someone.
> Which hurts like Hell, cause I'm not a bad guy. Never abusive, never cheated...its just bs. Imo
> And the cloths. She is hot. For her age especially. All I ever see her in is sweats. She doesn't like or ever give me the chances to see her naked. *But the sexy undies I see in the vicorias secret bag are not for comfort. And I won't ever see them. So who is she impressing?
> She's way too concerned about her tan. Knowing I don't give a f, she has to be trying to impress someone. *
> 
> I will look for these books suggested. I can also answer any questions or get more in depth if it would help get some honest opinions and advice.
> Thanks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry i didn't get that. Then there is an OM already? You should post in the infidelity forum for more direction.


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## endoftheroad

No, there is no proof of another man. Just my speculation. If there is, she spends very little time with them. But maybe that's the attraction? Idk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

At first, it was "you don't spend enough time with me" then when I seen that trying to spend more time didn't change anything, it was "I don't want to be alone when the kids are older and gone" to which I replied "wouldn't we then have more time to focus on us" then it was "I'm just not happy"
No explanation of exactly why. And no input on what I can do to make her happy. Nothing I do is ever met with appreciation. Even a simple thank you.
We went to a councillor. Once just her, once just me, and twice together. 
She doesn't want to take any responsibility for where we are. Thinks things like a "honey do" list are a joke (cause I should already know what she wants done) and failed to agree with one thing the lady said to us. 
So, here I am. Another day of unrest and uncertainty. 
And then, knowing how bad an argument got yesterday, proceeded to ask me if I wanted to go to the movies with her and the girls. Knowing that I had just finished cutting the grass, and still had to go do my moms yard work. Obviously I didn't go. But she asked, knowing I couldn't at that moment. 
Does it somehow make her feel better that she asked, knowing that she's gonna throw it in my face later for not "doing things with the family"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Then who's the Victoria's Secret stuff for...women don't wear that for the general public to see...that's for an intimacy with some one. Sorry, JMO.


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## endoftheroad

BTW, moms yard work now mine since father passed a few months back. Try to help her where I can. This all started with my father getting sick, and her not being there for me during this time. 
Water a month passed I couldn't take it anymore, and finally asked if she still loved and wanted me here. She couldn't say yes, so I left. I am home again, but as she puts it " only for the kids, and the counselor said if your not abusive or selling drugs ee should try to work it out" but she has not tried to hide the fact that she still doesn't care. And isn't happy being with me.
I want her to see the grass isn't greener on the other side. But her and my girls are all I really care about in this world and i was ready to do whatever I had to do to make it work. 
She just doesn't seem at all interested in trying. Only to give the kids the appearance that their parents are still together.
My head is in so many different places right now. So sorry if I am not making a lot of sense. I just need to get this out of me before it kills me. 
As much as I would love to think we got a chance, I am slowly comming to the realization that she is done with me. And seeing people I know with failed marriages, with good reason, it pains me to see something worth fighting for go to ****. As if I was that abusive guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

And on the victorias secret stuff...its a few sexy tops and quite a few g strings. Which I remember years ago her telling me how uncomfortable they were. Since I know she said they are better to wear with some of her work pants so you don't see them. I get that. But these do not look like something you buy to not show someone....is my opinion too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

All marriages ebb and flow.Your tides just went to far. You have a long way to row back. Stop arguing with her, it only enforces the resentment on both your parts. Read Divorce Busters, today.


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## FRANC

Why would you not ask her outright about the underwear?

I don't think it would be unreasonable to say something like "well we both know you aren't wearing those for me, so are you wearing them for someone else?"

Or are you scared to hear the possible reply?

I always hate to here these stories were one spouse decides it is ok to start treating the other like cr*p with no explanation and no offer to resolve.

I would rather my H divorced me than do that...i wouldn't want to be with someone who really didn't want to be with them and refused to try and fix the problems.

I wish you luck, I feel for you.


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## Dan Carruthers

"The Inference" by default suggests

The Best book for advice ,I feel is Michelle Langley's...She is objectively honest and precise on Female Sexuality n Love..


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## keko

OP have a look at this thread. Sounds similar. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/39105-my-wife-says-cruelest-things.html


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## Toffer

As others have said, try and rule out infidelity.

Check the amount of texts and phone calls she's making by looking at your cell bill online. A lot of messages/calls to one or two numbers?

Get a voice activated recorder and put it under the front seat of her car with heavy duty velcro

Can you get a hold of her phone? Can you see the texts or is it password protected?

If it's all negative, file for divorce. That may send a shock wave through her and wake her up. Take her name off all joint credit cards and take half the cash in any joint bank accounts and put it in accounts with only your name on them. 

She wants to be divorced while not being divorced? Show her what it's like.

Also tell her you're going to start dating she she's a non-starter in the bedroom and see how she likes that!


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## endoftheroad

I've checked her phone once. About a month ago. This is where I saw her sister say to her that she will find her a nice guy. Like I'm NOT a nice guy. I will never see her sister in the same way again no matter what happens. I was pretty good friends with my brother in law too. But since he knows we are having problems, we aren't the same either. The whole thing really gets to me. I guess it is true what they say about finding out who your friends really are. 
I will for sure go buy a voice activated recorder. And I'm asking about the g strings tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

If I were you I would hold off on asking about her lingerie until you use up other means of "surveillance".

Sucks about her family turning against you but blood is thicker then water, it's to be expected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

---the sister and brother in law--shame on them! they should be supportive to make sure their neices/nephews have a stable home. Why would anyone encourage a woman to break up her home and put her on the dating scene? If for some reason they thought she was being abused than shame on them again for sitting around doing nothing except saying "I'll find you someone else" Outside influences ruin marriages as quick as money IMO. 

Ignore her. Shut her down when she becomes abusive. Become more involved with kids. Plan things with the kids and dont include her. Take care of yourself. Clothes, cologne, more frequent hair cuts, exercise. She will wonder whats up. 

I wouldnt ask about the underwear until you have found the #'s she consistenly texts/calls (besides the loving sisters of course) Get a VAR & put it in her car. It may take awhile and you wont like what you hear but I think it will give you a better idea of what is going on.

I hope it works out and this is just a bump in the road. You 2 have alot of time together.


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## endoftheroad

Ansley said:


> ---the sister and brother in law--shame on them! they should be supportive to make sure their neices/nephews have a stable home. Why would anyone encourage a woman to break up her home and put her on the dating scene? If for some reason they thought she was being abused than shame on them again for sitting around doing nothing except saying "I'll find you someone else" Outside influences ruin marriages as quick as money IMO.
> 
> Ignore her. Shut her down when she becomes abusive. Become more involved with kids. Plan things with the kids and dont include her. Take care of yourself. Clothes, cologne, more frequent hair cuts, exercise. She will wonder whats up.
> 
> I wouldnt ask about the underwear until you have found the #'s she consistenly texts/calls (besides the loving sisters of course) Get a VAR & put it in her car. It may take awhile and you wont like what you hear but I think it will give you a better idea of what is going on.
> 
> I hope it works out and this is just a bump in the road. You 2 have alot of time together.


We've been together for half our lives. I was hoping she would be the one I grow old with. I still do, but the hope is really dwindling. 
I purchased a var last night. I just hit record and hid it in her car. I didn't have a lot of luck with getting the voice activated part to come on with lower noise levels so I'm just gonna let it run, and check it every night. 
I hope its a bump in the road too. It seems more like a black hole than a bump right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

endoftheroad said:


> We've been together for half our lives. I was hoping she would be the one I grow old with. I still do, but the hope is really dwindling.
> I purchased a var last night. I just hit record and hid it in her car. I didn't have a lot of luck with getting the voice activated part to come on with lower noise levels so I'm just gonna let it run, and check it every night.
> I hope its a bump in the road too. It seems more like a black hole than a bump right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you for taking action. I find it rare on here. When I went through hell with my exhusband it was before texts/emails & i never had heard of a VAR. I had to go with my gut (after finding phone #'s and had to stomach alot of hang ups on the phone...alot of hang ups) anyway I was correct to go with my gut 12 years later I was right. Since then he has been married & divorced again.


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## RDL

Hello,

It is likely that one of the root causes of your problems is that she has lost attraction for you a long time ago. Ironically you where probably too nice to her. 

It's a relatively common mistake and part of it is a curious vicious cycle such as you want to make her happy and do what she says but she silently wants a strong confident man to lead. And with that you doing nice things is actually jumping through her hoops and loosing you attraction.

She is quite possibly cheating. And your seemingly clingy needy attitude is pushing you further down. 

To begin addressing the situation you need to develop the behaviors that naturally generate attraction. Look around the forum for resources dealing with being an alpha man, the 180 and no more mister nice guy to get started.


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## anchorwatch

FreedomCorp said:


> Hello,
> 
> It is likely that one of the root causes of your problems is that she has lost attraction for you a long time ago. Ironically you where probably too nice to her.
> 
> It's a relatively common mistake and part of it is a curious vicious cycle such as you want to make her happy and do what she says but she silently wants a strong confident man to lead. And with that you doing nice things is actually jumping through her hoops and loosing you attraction.
> 
> She is quite possibly cheating. And your seemingly clingy needy attitude is pushing you further down.
> 
> To begin addressing the situation you need to develop the behaviors that naturally generate attraction. Look around the forum for resources dealing with being an alpha man, the 180 and no more mister nice guy to get started.


:iagree: 

Freedom is right on the mark. You need to understand that. Beside the investigations, did you start any of the suggested reading?


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## endoftheroad

Not yet. I own my own business and am very busy. However I did bookmark the links to them so I can grab as soon as I have some time to read them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Well, I am currently trimming the silence from the audio. But on her way home from work she was definately speaking to a man on the phone. I heard her say some things that I knew I wouldn't be able to unhear. The talk I heard was definately amongst friends and she talked about my family as if this guy already heard it before. Not what I wanted to hear, but enough to enrage me. 
Shaking, I went outside where she was with the girls. I paced for a few minutes wondering what would be the best way to approach it. I told my oldest to keep my youngest next door for a few. So I could pull her to the
side. 
Then I just went off. But, calmly as I could. I wanted her to know I'm dead serious.
I told her I'm definately leaving in the next 30 days. And because where I reside is a no fault state, she will be getting all the time to herself a week at a time. I'm done with being a ***** and letting my feelings for what I don't want to lose get in the way anymore. 
This was the first time where she appeared shocked. And seemed, for a moment, to care about us being happy together. Not just for the kids sake.
However I am sure future evesdropping will make me stick with my choice.
I told her I am giving her one last chance to tell me if she has cheated on me. Or even if there is another man at all. She said no.
I don't believe her. And have not and will not bring up the panties or any of my other suspicions until I AK positive I am not losing my mind.
If she is cheating it will suck.....but it will make me heal that much faster if I know the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

You approached her too early. Next time control your emotion's better. I understand it'll be damn near impossible but you have to. 

I think tomorrow's conversation will be an interesting one to listen. If she is indeed having an inappropriate relationship with someone she'll likely tell him to cool off or complain about you.


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## bkaydezz

is she starting the early change of life?

i dont understand "im just not happy" either.
are you both lacking alot of emotional needs here?


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## endoftheroad

keko said:


> You approached her too early. Next time control your emotion's better. I understand it'll be damn near impossible but you have to.
> 
> I think tomorrow's conversation will be an interesting one to listen. If she is indeed having an inappropriate relationship with someone she'll likely tell him to cool off or complain about you.


I was very enraged and there's no way i could have slept tonight without having some sort of conversation with her. since she shows no love for me, it must be going somewhere besides the kids. 
she needs to face reality. But so do i and its hard to do.
She will get the kids a week, and so will I.
But as i told her, its what she seems to want. I have already told her what i want. But that I am done fighting for it when the feelings haven't been mutual for sooo long.
I'm sure I approached it a little early. But I just know that If i didn't say something I wouldn't have made it to work tomorrow because I'd be so tired. 
even though i didn't really accomplish much, i let her know where i stand. Which is more than I have straight up done in the past.
I am fairly positive by the conversation I heard that she works with this man. So I'd be surprised, if she was seeing someone else, If she talked to him on the way to work. and Im sure she will talk to him at work before she gets back in the car. So i'm probably going to hear nothing. 
But honestly...to know that there was someone on the other end of that call was enough for me at this point to say I've had enough and I am done trying. I cant try and harder and It cant hurt anymore.
I guess we will see what happens from here.

Thanks to anyone that has commented on my problem. Your advice is very much appreciated


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## endoftheroad

bkaydezz said:


> is she starting the early change of life?
> 
> i dont understand "im just not happy" either.
> are you both lacking alot of emotional needs here?


My 5yo caused both of us a lot of stress. her more than me. But it is 100% my wifes fault. She allowed my daughter to run her life by bowing down and giving in to make her easier to deal with at the time. we are all paying for it now at 5. She cannot sleep on her own yet and is attached at the hip to my wife. They are both used to it.
I have done all I feel I can to show her my love for her. She hasn't seemed to really care. My emotional needs and what I needed to make me happy were simple....
If i know I'm gonna get laid at least twice a month, I will be a much happier and content man. And I will do the things you ask with a smile on my face. Because its a lot easier to do these things when it appears like we are both trying to make the other happy. and all i want is to feel like my wife truly loves me.
My request is not insane is it?

Edit: Been well over a year since Ive been laid. I feel like I've forgotten what sex is like. And if it wasn't for porn I probably would die!!!!
right now I cant even imagine having sex with my wife. that sucks...


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## Goldmember357

just leave its hard but these things can be prevented. i hate to sound rude but its true

you got a life and enjoy it make the most of what you can. You get what you put out into the world this is very sad but you can come back from it. You are stronger than what life has thrown at you or what has rather occurred.


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## endoftheroad

Yeah. My problem is that I don't want to be a statistic. I want both of us, happily, to look back and say that we made it. 
I can dream, right?
Oh yeah, I did say I was leaving within 30 days. As soon as I have cash to go get my own place I am out. If she loves me, we work it out. If she doesn't we don't. Sad but true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkaydezz

endoftheroad said:


> My 5yo caused both of us a lot of stress. her more than me. But it is 100% my wifes fault. She allowed my daughter to run her life by bowing down and giving in to make her easier to deal with at the time. we are all paying for it now at 5. She cannot sleep on her own yet and is attached at the hip to my wife. They are both used to it.
> I have done all I feel I can to show her my love for her. She hasn't seemed to really care. My emotional needs and what I needed to make me happy were simple....
> If i know I'm gonna get laid at least twice a month, I will be a much happier and content man. And I will do the things you ask with a smile on my face. Because its a lot easier to do these things when it appears like we are both trying to make the other happy. and all i want is to feel like my wife truly loves me.
> My request is not insane is it?
> 
> Edit: Been well over a year since Ive been laid. I feel like I've forgotten what sex is like. And if it wasn't for porn I probably would die!!!!
> right now I cant even imagine having sex with my wife. that sucks...


I honestly dont know how you can stay with someone who shows nothing greater than lack of intimacy.
I would NOT be there.
She should know that a man gives emotionally through physical intimacy. 
There is something so wrong with a person who cant stand to give you love dersirabley.
I can understand the tension of your wife letting her daughter walk on you both. One puts there foot down and the other does not. Being a parent is a compromise not a i am her mother and your child rearing doesnt matter father.
I feel sorry for you.
Have you had thoughts of leaving? If so, have you addressed any of that with her?
No, your request is not sane, there is a reason you have the title husband and that follows unconditional love and SEX!
WHat does she do for herself sexually?


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## bkaydezz

endoftheroad said:


> Yeah. My problem is that I don't want to be a statistic. I want both of us, happily, to look back and say that we made it.
> I can dream, right?
> Oh yeah, I did say I was leaving within 30 days. As soon as I have cash to go get my own place I am out. If she loves me, we work it out. If she doesn't we don't. Sad but true.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



What did she say to you leaving?


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## keko

When she talked about your family, were they in detail stuff or just general?


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## endoftheroad

keko said:


> When she talked about your family, were they in detail stuff or just general?


She had went to something for my moms side of the family this past weekend. Something that I didn't want or think she should have even had to go to. But she did anyways. She claimed to have felt obligated because my mother wanted her to go. I told her I didn't want her to go because of how awkward i know it would be.
She had made a comment about most of my family being "so white trash"
Granted, she was talking to some dude and probably is not trying to paint me or my family out to be great. But i believe she meant what she said. 
I am just so thrown off at what I am learning. This is not the woman I thought I loved. Its ****ing me up


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## bkaydezz

endoftheroad said:


> I was very enraged and there's no way i could have slept tonight without having some sort of conversation with her. since she shows no love for me, it must be going somewhere besides the kids.
> she needs to face reality. But so do i and its hard to do.
> She will get the kids a week, and so will I.
> But as i told her, its what she seems to want. I have already told her what i want. But that I am done fighting for it when the feelings haven't been mutual for sooo long.
> I'm sure I approached it a little early. But I just know that If i didn't say something I wouldn't have made it to work tomorrow because I'd be so tired.
> even though i didn't really accomplish much, i let her know where i stand. Which is more than I have straight up done in the past.
> I am fairly positive by the conversation I heard that she works with this man. So I'd be surprised, if she was seeing someone else, If she talked to him on the way to work. and Im sure she will talk to him at work before she gets back in the car. So i'm probably going to hear nothing.
> But honestly...to know that there was someone on the other end of that call was enough for me at this point to say I've had enough and I am done trying. I cant try and harder and It cant hurt anymore.
> I guess we will see what happens from here.
> 
> Thanks to anyone that has commented on my problem. Your advice is very much appreciated


what happened with this phone call?


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## endoftheroad

bkaydezz said:


> what happened with this phone call?


From hello to goodbye, the whole conversation was pretty normal. However, the way she talked to him was the way she used to talk to me. Talking about her day, asking about his. Joking and laughing. She hasn't talked with me like that in forever.
Bout to put the var back in the car and now my day gets to be consumed by what I know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

endoftheroad said:


> From hello to goodbye, the whole conversation was pretty normal. However, the way she talked to him was the way she used to talk to me. Talking about her day, asking about his. Joking and laughing. She hasn't talked with me like that in forever.
> Bout to put the var back in the car and now my day gets to be consumed by what I know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow-Im sorry. She has really done a number on you. I bet her convo's today will be quite different.


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> From hello to goodbye, the whole conversation was pretty normal. However, the way she talked to him was the way she used to talk to me. Talking about her day, asking about his. Joking and laughing. She hasn't talked with me like that in forever.
> Bout to put the var back in the car and now my day gets to be consumed by what I know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You heard no name in a greeting, why do you suspect a coworker? 
You only hear her voice, how do you know it was a man?

Stay calm, gather the your evidence. Ask your MD for something to take the edge off.


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## endoftheroad

I had headphones on, listening on my comp. I heard a man's voice, that's how I know. And the conversation itself led me to believe it was a coworker.
And, because of the stress in my life from just my wife, I have been on paxil for a decade. I can't get off them and I hate the way I feel on them. No more scrips for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Watch your health! Come off them gradually, cold turkey could throw you for a loop. Let the MD know you plan to stop the Rx.


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## Shaggy

Can you look at her cell phone record online an see what number she was talking to?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Next time you feel the rage to confront, leave the house for a couple hours to cool down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I'm not going to confront her with anything I don't have solid proof of. And, tbh, I don't want to know who he is. I do not want to put myself in a position to goto prison.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> I'm not going to confront her with anything I don't have solid proof of. And, tbh, I don't want to know who he is. I do not want to put myself in a position to goto prison.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Slow down, you don't need violence. He may have a wife to give him grief. You could call their HR dept. too. Let them know you, you getting a lawyer to find your options ...I'm sure the company has deep pockets. That would take take care of him with out violence.


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## anchorwatch

And only small proof of an EA...no PA yet


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## endoftheroad

I not a very violent person. But I had asked her on quite a few occasions if there was someone else. 
I look at it this way. If I was having sex with some hot woman who I knew was married, and I got caught, I would expect for the husband to want to kill me. Why I don't do it. Or wouldn't. Too many people can get hurt over it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bkaydezz

endoftheroad said:


> From hello to goodbye, the whole conversation was pretty normal. However, the way she talked to him was the way she used to talk to me. Talking about her day, asking about his. Joking and laughing. She hasn't talked with me like that in forever.
> Bout to put the var back in the car and now my day gets to be consumed by what I know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ahw how sad:/

Normal...NO way!
It should be normal for you to be hearing something pleasant and uplifiting, her being curious of how your feeling about your day and whats went on during it!

Im glad you got to hear it though. Im sure some part of you is slightly relieved that you have something to go with on this besides feeling like you may at somepoints during your day think you are just going crazy.

will she let you go through her phone?
have you checked her phone account and gotten records to see if there is a specific number that shes been calling consistantly?


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## endoftheroad

I told her yesterday that she can check my phone or my computer anytime she wants. I delete nothing because I have nothing to hide. I told her I bet she can't say the same.
I've already seen her delete most everything on her phone. Plus, I don't WANT to be that guy. Even though I am now.
Right now I'm afraid at what I might see. I already seen **** I can't unsee. Idk anymore. Very frustrated and angry and upset. 
Unfortunately I couldn't even work a full day today because of what this is all doing to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

You need to stay calm. This may be the first time you know what is really going on, instead of her making you think is your fault and your crazy. Now you know the truths, your in control. 
Her deception is coming to an end. You will no longer have to live loveless and sexless, as her surf. You will finally be able to get respect and stop being treated like a doormat. A life you deserve. Think about that!


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## endoftheroad

Well, she came home and cried to me about how she wants to make things work. Right now, I am taking it at face value. I've already said my next big check I am gone. And I meant it. Unless she changes. She says she is willing. We will see. 
Had I not found out what I did when I did I would still be that doormat. So thanks to everyone on here that has posted advice for my issues. I couldn't be where I'm at right now if it weren't for me finding this forum. So thanks again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Good news. Good for you making steps to take back your life. It's good to be an Alpha male, isn't it.

It's not over yet, there's more to do. Keep up the monitoring. She needs to give up her 'friend'. The toxic relitives and friends need to know, from her, she is going to work with you, no more bad mouthing you to them...
The shore is still a ways away, it's closer than yesterday though, stay the course.. 

Time to do the reads too. Your behind the curve in that aspect. Find out why things went bad for you.


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## endoftheroad

I knew I was being too gullible. I listened to today's car ride home and heard her tell him that txt and emails wont work anymore because I am asking her if there's someone else and getting suspicious.
I told her we need to talk. I'm waiting for my little one to go to bed. I hope I don't say anything i regret. Any advice for a guy who KNOWS shes cheating ? I'm beside myself right now.


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## anchorwatch

Don't tell her anything. Ask her again who is her .OM. or it is over like you said before. Then continue monitoring till you know who it is. Check the phone bill for the number she calls in the car.


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## keko

You're still to emotional. DO NOT have a talk with her under these circumstances.

Which phone is she using? You might be able to get deleted texts.


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## keko

anchorwatch said:


> Don't tell her anything. Ask her again who is her .OM. or it is over like you said before. Then continue monitoring till you know who it is. Check the phone bill for the number she calls in the car.


Bad idea on asking who her "lover" is. She knows he's onto her so why push her further underground? He should use up other methods to gather evidence before confronting, otherwise all she'll do is deny deny and deny.


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## endoftheroad

I'm going to record this conv ee are about to have. I am going to tell her that I have questions for her that I already know the answer to. Depending on how much she lies will determine the next question. Trying to stay calm. Will post how it goes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Whatever you do, do not tell her about the recording that you have.


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## Nod

End of the road, 
I'm in a similar situation...
Let me say, you won't be able to change he mind with words.
The number one goal is to focus on you! 
Do the 180. Ignore her, smile & walk away. Assume she had already has had an affair. 
Dress nicely, work on the body, & either she comes sound or not...
There are so many women who want a good man. I know what you mean about growing old together, but that may not happen.

We can't change them, only ourselves.


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## jh52

I wouldn't say a word -- though you want to.

I would talk to a lawyer for assistance and get ready to protect your assets, bank accounts, credit cards, etc. She is having at least an EA and my guess if they work together she is having a PA at lunch time. That is why she has treated you like sh!t for this past year and no sex. If she had sex with you she would be cheating on her OM. Also explains the sexy underwear.

Also, you may want to find out who he is -- if he is married -- or maybe it;s her boss and companies frown about bosses sleeping with people who report to them on possible sexual harassment charges.

My guess is that she is feeding your SIL and BIL a lie -- changing the whole story of you marriage -- that's why they are treating you different.

You still may want to gather more concrete proof -- follow her to work one day or have a good friend of yours -- just see what happens during lunch and if she and OM leave.

Alot here == but just breath deep ---

Good luck !!


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## jh52

endoftheroad said:


> I'm going to record this conv ee are about to have. I am going to tell her that I have questions for her that I already know the answer to. Depending on how much she lies will determine the next question. Trying to stay calm. Will post how it goes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it's a mistake. She will deny and lie and lie and lie. Then you will get more angry and she will take her affair underground. 

But you need to do what you think is best !!


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## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> I'm going to record this conv ee are about to have. I am going to tell her that I have questions for her that I already know the answer to. Depending on how much she lies will determine the next question. Trying to stay calm. Will post how it goes.


You gotta chill out.

Every time you get something you flip out, you become enraged (as if this is some sort of real surprise), and then run and confront her with it and she denies, and she buries her tracks even more.

You'll accomplish nothing.

You know she's cheating, and you also know she treats you like crap and she's really not interested in fixing anything.

Moving out and filing for divorce appears to be your only option, and it's probably the best thing that will happen to you in a long time because it will open up new doors for you.

You haven't been in a happy marriage in a long time. The fact that she's cheating is "almost" irrelevant.


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## jh52

This probably won't end well tonight !!


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## keko

jh52 said:


> This probably won't end well tonight !!


Yea. Hopefully he wont do anything rash.


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## bkaydezz

endoftheroad said:


> I told her yesterday that she can check my phone or my computer anytime she wants. I delete nothing because I have nothing to hide. I told her I bet she can't say the same.
> I've already seen her delete most everything on her phone. Plus, I don't WANT to be that guy. Even though I am now.
> Right now I'm afraid at what I might see. I already seen **** I can't unsee. Idk anymore. Very frustrated and angry and upset.
> Unfortunately I couldn't even work a full day today because of what this is all doing to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Take it and go through it.
my ex posted a number in our phone once.
unlisted i asked him where it came from he said he didnt know.
i said are you sure? he told me yes. so i got up and locked myself in the bathroom.
he about busted the door down to get it from me because i was calling the number.
turns out it was a female. 
he was so full of Shet.
you just know some things and others can make you think you know things.
but i was RIGHT.


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## endoftheroad

my night, and im sure next few days, are ****ed.
I told her I had questions. And how she answers them will determine the next question and how much she can lie to my face.
Its been going on for a while. He is also married. 
Considering I have wanted to grab a gun since i found out, I am a pretty rash person when it comes to my actions. I will always balance the good with bad before i do something rash, as you put it.
I did not raise my voice, and i remained calm and confident in my knowledge (which i lied) I told her I know about it, i know hes married, and i know that after all i said to her last night that she STILL was going to continue it with him. Saying "i think txt and email wont work anymore. We're gonna have to figure out alternative means. He keeps asking me if there's someone else"

i convinced her that i've known for a while, and was trying to be as civil about the situation as i could. But that i cant take it anymore. I said him or me, she said me (of course)
I told her i want to hear her end it with the dude. tempted to go tell her do it now. i don't give a **** what time it is. 

i am still taking this all in. As i really have only known for a few days for sure, and she has only tonight confessed. and i got what i expected to hear from the truth.
Now to soak it in, be rational, think about the kids, and decide if i am going to believe her and give her the chance to prove I'm the one. Or should i just say **** it and bail while i am still in one piece (for now)?


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## endoftheroad

Hell, I still have to figure out if i even have it in me to forgive her. This is pretty heavy on head right now. Knowing that when my dad passed away she was cheating on me. certain other things we did, she was cheating. Ah life is grand!


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## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> Hell, I still have to figure out if i even have it in me to forgive her. This is pretty heavy on head right now. Knowing that when my dad passed away she was cheating on me. certain other things we did, she was cheating. Ah life is grand!


You don't even know if forgiving her is an option. 

This whole thing is rushed, barely thought out, you act on impulse and you're quick to believe her when she says she "picks you" even though the first time you confronted her she said the same thing and then you caught her telling the other guy that they need to be more careful because you're onto them. I know that you know this because you posted that above but it's like you don't want to accept that she's going to continue right on lying after the first time. 

I understand you're not thinking clearly and you're a very impulsive guy who might even be prone to violence.

All I can tell you is find a way to calm the freak down before you do something you'll regret.

And stop believing her when she tells you things you desperately want to hear.


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## bkaydezz

endoftheroad said:


> my night, and im sure next few days, are ****ed.
> I told her I had questions. And how she answers them will determine the next question and how much she can lie to my face.
> Its been going on for a while. He is also married.
> Considering I have wanted to grab a gun since i found out, I am a pretty rash person when it comes to my actions. I will always balance the good with bad before i do something rash, as you put it.
> I did not raise my voice, and i remained calm and confident in my knowledge (which i lied) I told her I know about it, i know hes married, and i know that after all i said to her last night that she STILL was going to continue it with him. Saying "i think txt and email wont work anymore. We're gonna have to figure out alternative means. He keeps asking me if there's someone else"
> 
> i convinced her that i've known for a while, and was trying to be as civil about the situation as i could. But that i cant take it anymore. I said him or me, she said me (of course)
> I told her i want to hear her end it with the dude. tempted to go tell her do it now. i don't give a **** what time it is.
> 
> i am still taking this all in. As i really have only known for a few days for sure, and she has only tonight confessed. and i got what i expected to hear from the truth.
> Now to soak it in, be rational, think about the kids, and decide if i am going to believe her and give her the chance to prove I'm the one. Or should i just say **** it and bail while i am still in one piece (for now)?


You emotions are all over the place.
You arent in any position (today at least) to make a decision.
Your best thoughtout plan of action will come when you are fed up and clamed down. Be angry of course , but make the choice of leaving in the right way. I can tell that you want something out of this relationship. 
This is all still soaking in, you still dont have closure.
Try to get closure that will help you in your run with her.


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## keko

Did she tell you the specifics of the affair? When and where's?

If you decide to give her another chance(I don't know how after a sexless year and miserable marriage), how can you know she is being faithful?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nod

While you are completely justified, remember that she still is your wife. Now that you've spilled the beans, you need to ask her who he is, what they've done, & why she did this?

If it was an EA, then you should try to work through it. Also, when you do find out who he is, tell his wife. 

You hold all of the cards, but be smart about it. 

All bets are of if it was a PA, which I assume due to sexless marriage.

I would ask her to leave, and talk to an attorney.


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## kindi

Nod said:


> You hold all of the cards, but be smart about it.


He certainly does not hold all the cards.


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## keko

And for one second dont think you know all the truth. Did you forget just yesterday she hold you there was no one and today it's been going on for a while? Want to take guess whats next?

It's called trickle truth. Search it a bit on this site. Cheaters only tell what the betrayed spouse can take and what they're able to prove. Even then they try to minimize it and shift the blame onto the betrayed spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> Knowing that when my dad passed away she was cheating on me.


Wow. This alone is so f'd up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I know. And no I am not prone to violence. I'm just honest in saying the first thing that came to my mind. That certainly doesn't mean I'm going to do it. So pretty sure I'm good there.
As for taking her at her word, I don't. I was very clear to her when I told her that, while I am willing to try and work through this, things will get ugly if she doesn't prove what she says. And that if it doesn't end with one of us she will not like the outcome. 
I also said she has a choice, and she needs to make it. Him or me. And don't say me for the kids cause if youre not going to try to be happy with me, why bother. I am prepared right now to leave. 
I couldn't ask her to leave. It would be easier if I just left. And I told her that if for one second I see she is lying to me from this point on, I will leave and it will get ugly. And a lot of people will get hurt.
I guess my question right now is this...should I wake her and make her call him? Should I make her call him before we seperate for the day for work? Or should I let her go and HOPE that either on the way to work or home from work they talk and I find the truth?
I want this guys wife to know. Tomorrow. She deserves to know, and he deserves to loose at least one of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Don't make any life decisions in the state of emotion your in. Your in charge now, take your time. She chooses you than she must agree to every thing you ask, to prove to you, she is serious. 

More than likely she is just buying time right now and doesn't know what she wants. Her whole secret world just caved in on her. She is emotional like you. Get her phone away from her. Don't let her warn the OM to conspire to save their a$$es. Does she work with him?

She has to give up all contact with him. She has to give you all access to her phone and internet communications. All this or she's full of bs. And then you still must monitor everything.

You not going to sleep. Go read the links in the infidelity section.

Do what you can to stay calm and stop acting rash. Your lucky your bluff worked. Don't bluff again.


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## keko

Tomorrow when they're together they'll get their stories correct so if you call him or his wife calls your wife, they'll be the same story.

Plant the voice recorder once again in her car.

Go through her call/text logs and search the number on people search sites. When you get a name search Facebook and other social media for his wife/gf. Contact her right away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Keko is right on. You contact the wife before she has a chance to warn him. Your wife should never talk to him again for any reason. Don't let her bs you into closure with him. Don't think she is not thinking right now how she can warn him, to protect him. Tomorrow you both should go sick from work. Your going to be worthless the morning anyway.

Just a thought tell her to apologize to the OMW, with you. You could go to her while the OM is at work tomorrow.


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## keko

The evil side of me is saying to call her family, especially her sister, and play the recording while handing them the VS lingerie she w****d herself in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I wont sleep, and as soon as she is awake for what she thinks is gonna be just another bad day, I am telling her she is not working, and BOY do we have a day ahead of us. We will be taking a trip to talk to the wife together, or I will make it on my own when I find the information she refuses to provide. I will tell the wife with or without her. But if she were to agree, and go and apologize, THEN i might believe a little that she does want to make it work. Otherwise, there's my cue.
I'm not going to sit back and play the foot stool and the overly caring husband anymore.


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## Nod

Why doesn't he hold all of the cards??? She has been caught... If she doesn't agree to all of these reasonable requests, then file.

Name & phone number of the OM
All of her passwords to email, Facebook, etc.
Full disclosure of the affair


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## keko

Maybe you missed my post but did she tell you when and where she was having an affair?

Also given how her family was turning against you, would you say they knew about the affair and kept it on the down low?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

As for him, she can write him a letter that it's over, it was wrong, she has committed to you and her family. And he should never contact her or her family again, if he does you get a court order against him.

Good luck, stay in control of yourself, you've got some long days ahead. God give you strength.


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## endoftheroad

keko said:


> Maybe you missed my post but did she tell you when and where she was having an affair?
> 
> Also given how her family was turning against you, would you say they knew about the affair and kept it on the down low?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I told her, without getting into exacts, that Ive known for a while and was trying to give her the way of being honest when i confronted her all the times i did. And that I don't need her phone, emails or text messages to know where shes been, who she's been with, what she does, and sometimes what she says. I also told her that i have, but have not yet to look at, video taken of her on many occasions that proves my suspicions correct. Threatened it would get bad if she didn't admit to ****ing him. and that if i saw, on film, her meetings where she goes in somewhere with him and doesn't come out for a while, it will get worse. I also threw in how I would much rather turn around and sell all my (surveillance) stuff and get back a couple grand.
Pretty sure she's buying what i was selling. for now. wait till she awakes


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## keko

You'll need to know the exacts, whether from her or on your own, if your hoping to have a successful reconciliation. In the future they'll be red flags you'll be watching of another affair.

You mentioned she had very little time to spend with someone else. So it was either during lunch break as jh mentioned or in their workplace(in this case you're bluff may have been called by her). Stay firm on her quitting her job tomorrow morning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Also from now on stop with the bluffing. You already got her to confess so from now on set your goal to learn as much as you can of what she did until now and what her intentions from now on are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I've woken her up to ask her what time she needed to be up for work, and made her hand over the phone. told her i'd wake her up cause she is gonna have a long day and no work. I said "do you want to apologize to the wife with me there, or am i telling her on my own?"
she said kill me now, and i said I'll be awake if you got anything to say. She said she doesn't want to ruin a marriage, i told her she's probably ruined 2. walked away.
phone clean. voice mails empty. emails deleted (at least on phone side) gonna try to get phone records for the past 12 months here shortly. Not going to give her one minute to recover and regroup. She deserves nothing less. 
And as far as i am concerned right now If she couldn't handle the heat she shouldn't have played with fire for so long.


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## the guy

A couple of mistakes I made when I was going thru this crap was going to work. I tried to work through it and when my bossed called me in to hos office to ask me about my performance I had to tell him. His response was i should have taken an emergency leave.

See now I'm labeled a flake and I'm doing everything I can to get rid of the label. So please, please, please take the time off at least a week. Its better then having poor prformance and lack of production. It seems poeple remember the worst and forget about the years of good work.

Second, take this time off to get away. I need to get my cheating wife out of my ear. I went off for the day and spent it alone and cleared my head. I thelped me alot not listening to her winy b*ll crap. it will do you some good. Some fellas need a few day but at any rate get way, take a hike or a bike ride but get away from it.

You will come back with a clear head...well lets just say clarer then it is now.

I also took some Advile PM for sleep and went to my favorite resturant and got my favorite dish to go and picked at it. it was something and it was better then not eating at all.

And the last thing is hit the gym....work out. That in its self was a the best thing for me.

One more thing, I spent alot more time with my kids, that kept me grounded will i figured out my plan.

Thats the thing here it takes time to make a plan but when you do work the plan.

it was a b!tch trying to work and make a plan, I lost alot of time leaving early, so please take the time off and spend some time with your self , the kids and lawyer. Set up an apointment with IC to help with the post tramatic stress.

I hope this help brother, it was 2-1/2 years ago I confronted my wife after 13 years of hell.


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## Ansley

You are lucky your bluff worked. It did so good. You carry the big gun in the room now. Bluffing (lying) will eventually get confusing and she will figure it out. Not only does the OM need to be confronted, his wife needs to know and Id probably make a call to the sister. I would let her know that you know about her offering to find a "nice guy" for your wife & that in the meantime her sister has been having an affair. If she really wants it to work she needs to change her number and make sure its a phone company where you can check the activity online. No secret passwords. If they worked together then she has to find a new job. ALso no contact with the bit&h sister. She will think its extreme but how bad does she want her family together>


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## the guy

I showed the same tough love approach your are doing now and it saved my marriage, for what thats worth!

Push push push, if she wants it she will give you the submission, if you don't push now i think it will be a false R. so lay it on now. 

many guys screw around and try to "nice" ther way thru and months down the road they end up bailing.

So push her now and save your self some time.

From here on out it your way or the high way...her choice


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## Ansley

Again~ Im very impressed how you have confronted this situation. You certainly didnt stand by and let it go. Be nice to yourself though. The stress is going to make you blow a gasket.


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## the guy

If I remember, you run your own business?

Can you still get away for a day or two, for your self?


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## Ansley

It made me so mad when he woke her up and asked if she was going to go with him to tell the wife or not, and she said _"kill me now_" Really lady? Are we now supposed to feel sorry for you because you are having a bad day and are about to be outed to everyone in this little world you created?


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## the guy

@ Ansley, don't let it get to you, when it come to logic and waywards...there is none.

On the bright side she didn't tell OP no so there may be some remorse setting in, but after years of abuse she may not be used to the *new* endoftheroad. It will take her sometime to get used to this new alpha male that will no longer tolorate her crap...if she ever will. 

It still remains to be seen if this was an exit affair or not.


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## Ansley

It just irritates me how the ones that cheated (my ex included) do everything underhanded to hurt the entire family and then evolve into a victim.


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## keko

Is it a smartphone?

If she has a computer at home you could install a key logger. She likely is using a few secret email accounts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

If you are up for playing hard ball which I think you are, then do:

1. Without any warning tell the OMW.
2. Next tell your wife, that you have told it all to the OMW and that it is all because of her that his marriage and life has ended. She alone is responsible for three people's lives coming to an end with heartbreak. It is all because of her cheating.

.lay it on hard and thick. The goal here is to drive home that she ruined the OMs life. He is all she cares about so this should really devastate her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I told her I want full disclosure. She says what's the point. I said if we are gonna work it out the OW needs to know. And I will lose my business following her around until I get the information I need to tell the OW, weather she tells me or not. I'm pretty sure its clicking that she's ****ed. So now I get to see if she wants to really be the wife I want, or the ***** who was ****ing some other woman's husband while my father was dying and my life was falling apart.
I told her its gonna be a lot worse if I have to pay for more information now that the truth is out. So she better learn to live with the fact that she ****ed up big time if she wants to even begin to fix this ****.
At some point when these emotions are more settled, i would like to tell my story of how I got here. It's not all her fault that we are where we are. Only her fault that she lied and strayed. Getting her to accept that and prove what she says is gonna be tough. 
Idk if I can ever look at her the same. But at least I am calm and somewhat collected. And as much as I hurt, I know I want things to work for us. So that's at least a start. I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

And after what Shaggy said.....tell her you are willing to expose the 2 of them to their employer. Affair on company time = big time trouble if not job loss.


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## endoftheroad

She claims she met him through the brother of a guy she works with. I already told her the things I could do if the lying continues after she says she wants to try and work it out. She said something about being broke, to which I replied "if it comes to that I won't care"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Meaning she would be screwed if I tried to include her place of work. For the record, I won't financially cripple my kids. No matter how much I hate her at this moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

endoftheroad said:


> Meaning she would be screwed if I tried to include her place of work. For the record, I won't financially cripple my kids. No matter how much I hate her at this moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I get that...I know you arent bluffing either. I can read in your posts you mean business. Just as long as she knows you will go to any length. She has had to many conveniences.


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## warlock07

Keep the evidence. Keep recording her confessions. Does the OM know yet ?(I'm guessing that she must have found a way ) If the OM doesn't know, she can get the evidence from him. Your bluff will no longer work once she slips in a couple of lies. I am so pissed off. Now you know why she wearing lingerie to the office. They were doing it in the office.You may also want to inform the HR(about her and the OM using company resources to conduct the affair, f*ck her job, she needs to quit it anyway) and her family(when the time is right). What a chump she must think you are to do this. Depriving you of sex for a year, putting you through hell for even longer and turns out she was cheating on you all this time? You should seriously consider divorce.


Get tested for STDs.


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## warlock07

endoftheroad said:


> Meaning she would be screwed if I tried to include her place of work. For the record, I won't financially cripple my kids. No matter how much I hate her at this moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She can get a different job. The job needs to go.


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## Ansley

endoftheroad said:


> She claims she met him through the brother of a guy she works with. I already told her the things I could do if the lying continues after she says she wants to try and work it out. She said something about being broke, to which I replied "if it comes to that I won't care"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_The brother of a guy she works with? _

Where does she find time to get to know co-workers family members friends well enough to have an affair?Not buying that one. Sorry my friend. Im not trying to make it worse for you but that senario holds no weight.


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## warlock07

Make her write down about the total details of the affair- a timeline of sorts - in paper(not typing)


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## warlock07

She might have secret email addresses. Install a keylogger on the home computer.


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## endoftheroad

None of what she says right now is holding weight. I won't backtrack on my little white lie in search of the truth. That is, if I don't end of leaving today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Right now her lack of cooperation in divulging the details I require is frustrating. Trying to get her to fully understand how much worse it could be if I have to obtain this information on my own. I am calm and positive of what I want. Weather she complies or not I guess we will see. Let her cry some more. She deserves so much more than the feeling she has at this moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

I guess it wasnt an exit affair since prince charming (i.e. the other man) hasnt galloped in to comfort her in her misery. By now he has to be doing some serious damage control on his end.


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## WanderingNomad

All to familiar for me.

Had close to same things happen to me and I did the same thing with bluffing and got her to admit it. It was nothing but an EA. She got the 7 year itch. I was straight forward and put my foot down. Also helped that the place of business she and the OM worked at was closing and we moved out of state.
Needless to say little over a year later we are separated (long story) she recently stated she has done a lot of thinking and she misses me and everything. So who knows what will happen.

I know what you're going through and its next to impossible to keep quiet when you find something out through surveillance. It eats away at you.

This will take a lot of work to make this work out in the end. 

Make sure to think things through before acting.


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## anchorwatch

You took the phone hours after the confrontation? She warned him then...they have a plan never to give each other up. He is already setting his wife up with some bs story. Get to his wife...let her do some investigations on phone bills and emails too.. If it gets to hot for him with his wife or job, he'll throw your wife under the bus. 

Don't discount the job...she admits that's her big fear..for sure his too.

Get her passwords and all her email accts, find the text and emails

You can always decide to stay or go at anytime...you don't have to decide today, this week or this month, but you must stay resolved.


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## anchorwatch

Your going to need to get some sleep, a some point today. Start planing for that...you won't act rational with out it and make bigger mistakes.


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## WanderingNomad

Thinking things through and planning is very much needed specially if you are doing surveillance stuff. You may have jumped to soon and need to really plan your actions out going forward.

Keep in mind its easier to cheat then it is to get caught. EA or PA

Now she knows you know and can keep things a lot more secretive then she did before. She will watch where she uses the phone and everything. She will hide and lie more then ever if shes not willing to give this relationship up with the OM


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## endoftheroad

She has said there is no doubt they are done. I made her verify the number I pulled up was his before I called. He picked up the 2nd time. At first he tried the denial route. I broke it down like this for him
"I know you did, and I have proof. Here is what you are going to do. You're gonna let your wife know today that you were ****ing my wife. You have till 6 to tell her. Cause when I call to tell her she better already know that specific detail....that you were ****ing my wife. As long as I know that your wife feels like I do right now, then we are done. Providing you never contact my wife again. If I find that you are attemting to continue this with my wife, are you prepared for the fact that I will probably kill you?"
He claimed to be on the same page, and we will see what his wife says later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I am more calm than I've ever been for how angry I am. But I'm also very serious. They both need to understand what they did, and they both need to pay for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> Right now her lack of cooperation in divulging the details I require is frustrating. Trying to get her to fully understand how much worse it could be if I have to obtain this information on my own. I am calm and positive of what I want. Weather she complies or not I guess we will see. Let her cry some more. She deserves so much more than the feeling she has at this moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


While it is still fresh, try to have her confess as much as possible. Learn every detail one way or another before giving her another chance or deciding on divorce.

Also just to be on the safe side keep the recorder on yourself for the time being. We have seen plenty of husbands/fathers get falsely accused of domestic violence.The recordings will prove your innocence if it comes down to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

You need to be the coolest head in the room. Did she warn him during the night? 

That was a mistake to talk to him first. He probably will bs his wife now. She may never talk to you depending on what bs he gives her. Something like your wife is a nutty stalker and he cant get rid of her advances. They'll get a RO against you for harassment. Be careful with the threats you make as they can't be carried through. 

Why was she worried about her job? You haven't answered yet, do they work together? Is that card still in your pocket?


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> I am more calm than I've ever been for how angry I am. But I'm also very serious. They both need to understand what they did, and they both need to pay for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You've now given your ultimatum and it needs to be backed up if they do break "no contact". Are you willing to hand over divorce papers the moment you learn she talked to him?


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## endoftheroad

Right now, the only thing I want to hear from her is that she is serious about wanting this to have a chance to heal. I want her to know its gonna be a lot harder than hiding her secret was. If she can convince me, I may accept, and not leave today. But I've already made it very clear that Hell hath no fury like a husband lied to again like she did. If she can accept what she did, and show me willingness, I'm ok to try. And I only hope I can learn to love her again someday. But I let it be known that's totally up to her if that happens. 
I'm not sure if I went about this the wrong way, but if I waited and learned that it didn't stop, I was more afraid of letting out the side of me that will be nothing but trouble for all involved. I couldn't wait anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

And yes, I've told her if we are not going to work it out, I would be going to get a lawyer today. Sadly, I am fully preparred to do that if I must.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

And I couldn't have been anymore clear with her as to the consequences of what will happen if I find out she is ever in contact with him again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> She has said there is no doubt they are done. I made her verify the number I pulled up was his before I called. He picked up the 2nd time. At first he tried the denial route. I broke it down like this for him
> "I know you did, and I have proof. Here is what you are going to do. You're gonna let your wife know today that you were ****ing my wife. You have till 6 to tell her. Cause when I call to tell her she better already know that specific detail....that you were ****ing my wife. As long as I know that your wife feels like I do right now, then we are done. Providing you never contact my wife again. If I find that you are attemting to continue this with my wife, are you prepared for the fact that I will probably kill you?"
> He claimed to be on the same page, and we will see what his wife says later.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Once again, instead of threatening his life you needed to learn more about the affair. Given how you were clueless on her cheating until just a few days ago you wont know the next time she's cheating. Not trying to beat you down but have a look at the coping with infidelity section and see how often people get involved in false R with minimal knowledge of affair then few months later when another details comes about they're back to square one.


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## keko

I'm not sure which country you're in but if you're in the US, DO NOT under any circumstance's leave the marital house. The legal system is already biased against fathers and leaving your house/kids/family is just shooting yourself in the foot.


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## kindi

Nod said:


> Why doesn't he hold all of the cards??? She has been caught... If she doesn't agree to all of these reasonable requests, then file.r


She's cheating on him with another guy and she refuses to cooperate and give him the requested information. She's already lied to him several times after he confronted her.

He's hotheaded, with anger management issues, he's losing sleep and he just called the OM and threatened him with physical harm.

He's ready to move out of the marital home with absolutely no clue how much this might hurt him in an eventual custody dispute.

The courts don't care about why a couple is being divorced, unless the children are being severely adversely affected by the actions of the cheating spouse.

She could very easily turn the tables on him, get him evicted from his house with a restraining order, and he'll find himself in a weak negotiating position in a high conflict divorce that will cost him a heck of a lot of money and maybe even access to his kids. 

Who knows, maybe the OM and his wife will eventually end up together in his house and the kids will be spending more time with this guy then with their own father, while he mails a support check every month because he's the high income earner and she lost her job as a result of the affair being reported to the HR department.

This sort of thing happens all the time.

In this case the odds are higher because we've got a hotheaded betrayed spouse who has already leveled threats of murder, and a cheating spouse who shows no inclination to fix anything.

He's already dug himself a hole with the threats to the OM and with ultimatums that he's going to file for divorce and move out within the next day or two.

If he doesn't follow through she'll see it as a big bluff and he'll lose credibility and if he does follow through he's basically handed her temporary custody and sole occupancy of the marital residence.


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## anchorwatch

kindi said:


> She's cheating on him with another guy and she refuses to cooperate and give him the requested information. She's already lied to him several times after he confronted her.
> 
> He's hotheaded, with anger management issues, he's losing sleep and he just called the OM and threatened him with physical harm.
> 
> He's ready to move out of the marital home with absolutely no clue how much this might hurt him in an eventual custody dispute.
> 
> The courts don't care about why a couple is being divorced, unless the children are being severely adversely affected by the actions of the cheating spouse.
> 
> She could very easily turn the tables on him, get him evicted from his house with a restraining order, and he'll find himself in a weak negotiating position in a high conflict divorce that will cost him a heck of a lot of money and maybe even access to his kids.
> 
> Who knows, maybe the OM and his wife will eventually end up together in his house and the kids will be spending more time with this guy then with their own father, while he mails a support check every month because he's the high income earner and she lost her job as a result of the affair being reported to the HR department.
> 
> This sort of thing happens all the time.
> 
> In this case the odds are higher because we've got a hotheaded betrayed spouse who has already leveled threats of murder, and a cheating spouse who shows no inclination to fix anything.
> 
> He's already dug himself a hole with the threats to the OM and with ultimatums that he's going to file for divorce and move out within the next day or two.
> 
> If he doesn't follow through she'll see it as a big bluff and he'll lose credibility and if he does follow through he's basically handed her temporary custody and sole occupancy of the marital residence.


Well said!

endoftheroad, your anger will get you some quick results out of fear, but when things cool off and their fear of you is gone, your method will all fall apart. 

I hope you get some sleep and start thinking with your head and not your rage. You know what happens to the bull in the ring, it's his blind rage that gets him killed. You need to be of clear mind to guide this marriage and your family out of the storm. 

You have a lot to do. Read what was sent to you. Go slow now, one step at a time.


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## endoftheroad

I have spoken with him again, and told him the only thing that will make me happy and give me even a small chance to move on, is if me my wife, him and his wife meet. Tonight. In a few hours. They need to see the pain they caused their spouses. If she decides to try and work on it that's her choice. But she has the right to do what she wants with that Info. I want to tell her so she knows he didn't just hurt her. 
I told him this way, the only thing that gets hurt are feelings. He agreed. We will see if it happens
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

It seems she needs to quit her job but he has stated he will not have her do this ...


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## endoftheroad

And if it does come down to it not working out, I have every intention of making her leave.
The house is in her name only, as she makes 2x more than me doing what she does. Hence why I would try to avoid getting her fired only for the sake of my kids at that point. 
If I didn't have almost 20 years and 2 kids riding on this, the choice would be easy and I wouldn't be having this conversation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> I have spoken with him again, and told him the only thing that will make me happy and give me even a small chance to move on, is if me my wife, him and his wife meet. Tonight. In a few hours.


The guy you threatened to kill this morning is going to meet you in a few hours?

Umm.. have a nice chat.


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> And if it does come down to it not working out, I have every intention of making her leave.
> The house is in her name only, as she makes 2x more than me doing what she does. Hence why I would try to avoid getting her fired only for the sake of my kids at that point.
> If I didn't have almost 20 years and 2 kids riding on this, the choice would be easy and I wouldn't be having this conversation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Reconciliation will never work, if they work together and see each other daily. The attraction will be to strong and you'll be back here looking for help again. They are physically attracted to each other. They will be in withdrawal. It would like leaving heroin in front of a junkie. Steps must be taken that there can be no contact.

I don't like that meeting idea. To many things can go wrong. He could set you up. If you are going through with it, have a recorder on you, bring someone else with you. I can see things or you getting out of control. If he coughs wrong your going to lose it. Why can't it be done on a speaker phone?


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## Entropy3000

endoftheroad said:


> And if it does come down to it not working out, I have every intention of making her leave.
> The house is in her name only, as she makes 2x more than me doing what she does. Hence why I would try to avoid getting her fired only for the sake of my kids at that point.
> If I didn't have almost 20 years and 2 kids riding on this, the choice would be easy and I wouldn't be having this conversation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was in an EA ... I found another job. 

If she works with him it will not work out well for you. BUT she may be able to live well and support your children without you.

She can get another job.

Meeting him is insane. What would be the point? If someone told me they were going to kill me I would take them out first. Trust that.

You have already threatened him. So not need to meet. If you want to reason with him that is just begging another man to stop banging his wife. How sad is that?


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> And if it does come down to it not working out, I have every intention of making her leave.
> The house is in her name only, as she makes 2x more than me doing what she does. Hence why I would try to avoid getting her fired only for the sake of my kids at that point.
> If I didn't have almost 20 years and 2 kids riding on this, the choice would be easy and I wouldn't be having this conversation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her job needs to go if you're willing to forgive her and work it out. If you are set on divorce then she should stay to afford child support and your alimony.

The vast income difference is also a huge reason she has little to no respect towards you. Do you have the educational background or the experience to earn equal?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

He does no work with her. His brother does. And he doesn't know.
And until I can tell his other half what he did, I will not be happy.
IF he goes through with this meeting, it will be as public as I can make it. I am not looking for trouble. What I feel like doing and what I will do are not the same. Meaning, especially right now, things would have to go very south. 
My wife has since told me more, as she knew she had to do. Phone records show 10 months, she admitted to it being more like a year. And she has complied with my requests as of this point. So as you can imagine that has brought a little calm knowing that she is defeated and is surrendering. 
I have still yet to be anything but civil about everything up to now. 
The fact that I have not slept has not made me more angry. The more I accomplish today, the less I will worry tomorrow.
If I cannot let his wife know tonight, then I won't sleep until I have the info I need to go to them.
And please make no mistake, I am not a dangerous person. I am not going into this with intentions to hurt any physically. Plus, the wife already told me I would not be intimidated by him, so even less reason for me to go at it angry.
So, to the people that think I'm a rager for posting what I did, I hope this helps my case cause I'm not that guy. Well, I'm not trying to. My goal is the right thing. And his wife knowing now is the right thing to me.
Is that wrong of me??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

If she doesnt work with him and it's been going on for a year, where was she sleeping with him?

You need to learn every single detail of the affair before you even think about forgiving her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

You need sleep to think straight and to be able to recognize and see danger.

I would have notified the OMW before any of this stuff. Before he had a chance to prep her. 

The police may know you threatened him and when you try to contact her they may see this as stalking ... who knows ...

Do what you have to do but I would not have approached it this way. I think you are doing something very risky. You may be sleeping at the jail tonight.


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## Nod

It's kind of weird that you want to meet him. I don't see what that accomplishes. You should spend your time trying to understand why she did what she did. If you want to reconcile, this doesn't seem like the right way. 

I just don't know if I could live with someone after that. Everytime I would have sex, I would wonder if she is thinking about him, or comparing you to him, etc.. It would drive me insane. The best route would be to work on you & find a trustworthy partner.


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## Nod

Also, you have to assume if she is wearing lingerie at work, then they have ****ed. I bet she even took vacation time and had a **** fest with him. 

Like I said, would drive me insane... I wouldn't be able to look at her the same again.


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## sandc

Your wife took vows to be faithful to you not the other guy. I don't know what you want to accomplish by meeting him either other than to satisfy your curiosity. I won't go into what you should have done. I'll only say think about what you should have done before you do it. Slow down and think it through.


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## anchorwatch

Exposure to his wife is not wrong. Many advocate it in order to give you an ally to kill the affair. Give the OMW your phone number if she has more questions latter or if she catches him up to no good. Exposure will keep him busy with his wife, rather than paying attention to yours. 

The threat you made to the OM is understandable, but alarming. The worries are that you will get you or your family into harms way. We are not there, we only get to see what you wrote and what you omitted, it could be misinterpreted. You are there and know the dynamics, only you can decide what to do. You do sound calmer now. Good luck. Be careful and get some sleep tonight. Take Tylenol PM or some Benadryl.


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## endoftheroad

His wife called my phone. The conversation I had with her was satisfaction enough for me to never have to meet the dude. My main reason for wanting to know whY he looks like is so I know who to look for if need be. 
I already have a pretty low self esteem thanks to her, so if the dude was better looking it wouldn't surprise me.

I'm giving my wife the opportunity most men would not even consider. His wife said they are done. She also did not seem at all surprised. 
Honestly, I am pretty much winging it from here on out. I told her that It's not gonna take much for me to go right to a lawyer if I catch wind that this or any other EA ever again.
I wish I could predict the future. Considering I am willing to even TRY to fix our marriage...does it make me seem like a doormat?
I've tried to stress that she not mistake my kindness for weakness and she knows exactly how I feel about her right now. I don't think it will take very long for me to determine how truthfull she is really being from here on out. 
I let her know to continue to expect to answer the hard questions. She says she will. We will see?

So, at this point any advice on what is good ways to handle from here Ty for. At least now I am in a more stable frame of mind, but would love more input.

While I have acted faster than I should have, and maybe not in the best way, I got some of what I needed. Some truth. Even if I did force it, I got it. And to anyone who thinks me violent...look, only feelings hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

What did OM's wife say? Did OM give her any details that you did not already know?

Glad to hear you're not meeting him. You've done enough for today. Go have a drink and get some sleep. Keep the VAR's going so you can be sure of NC.


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## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> His wife said they are done. She also did not seem at all surprised.


His wife says they are done. Which "they", the OM and his wife or the OM and your wife?

Either way I wouldn't take anything she says as factual, she doesn't really know what's going on any more than you do.

Advice going forward?

Chill out, don't be so fast to act, and threaten, and issue ultimatums, realize that your wife's deceptive behavior is likely to continue and there's no guarantee the affair is over just because she's scared and because you spoke to the OM and his wife.

Sleep with one eye open.. make use of the many surveillance tools recommended by the experienced members of this site and when and if you find something or suspect something don't go running up to her and tell her you're going to ask questions you already know the answers to.

You said it yourself, if the affair continues, then you are done. If you find proof of continued contact with the OM anything you need to say to her can be done via attorneys.


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## anchorwatch

Good much better outcome. You are doing the right thing with your wife too. You've come a long way since the weekend, when you came here. You deserve a rest!

Here is a guide.

Amazon.com: Surviving an Affair (9780800717582): Willard F. Jr. Harley, Jennifer Harley Chalmers: Books


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## warlock07

You let the OM manipulate the exposure. She must have got the "His wife pursued me and her husband is jealous and suspicious" line and she must have bought it. Which is why it was repeatedly stated to not let either of them know that you are exposing.

And for all it is worth, it could be another woman posing as his wife. How do you confirm that it was his wife you talked to. It happened earlier. The OM intercepted his wife mails(ing). One OM minimized the extent of the affair(SomedayDig), One poster made the BS and WS look crazy to his wife(AlmostRecovered)


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> Considering I am willing to even TRY to fix our marriage...does it make me seem like a doormat?


If you don't hold your boundaries or follow through with your ultimatums then yes.

Also you can TRY all you want but at the end of the its your wife that needs to get her act together. The future of your R solely depends on if your wife is remorseful or not, if she's willing to be transparent, if she's fixing herself to be a better wife/mother, openly accepting her fault and earning your trust once again.


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## Entropy3000

endoftheroad said:


> His wife called my phone. The conversation I had with her was satisfaction enough for me to never have to meet the dude. My main reason for wanting to know whY he looks like is so I know who to look for if need be.
> I already have a pretty low self esteem thanks to her, so if the dude was better looking it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> I'm giving my wife the opportunity most men would not even consider. His wife said they are done. She also did not seem at all surprised.
> Honestly, I am pretty much winging it from here on out. I told her that It's not gonna take much for me to go right to a lawyer if I catch wind that this or any other EA ever again.
> I wish I could predict the future. Considering I am willing to even TRY to fix our marriage...does it make me seem like a doormat?
> I've tried to stress that she not mistake my kindness for weakness and she knows exactly how I feel about her right now. I don't think it will take very long for me to determine how truthfull she is really being from here on out.
> I let her know to continue to expect to answer the hard questions. She says she will. We will see?
> 
> So, at this point any advice on what is good ways to handle from here Ty for. At least now I am in a more stable frame of mind, but would love more input.
> 
> While I have acted faster than I should have, and maybe not in the best way, I got some of what I needed. Some truth. Even if I did force it, I got it. And to anyone who thinks me violent...look, only feelings hurt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1) Sleep

2) She must be verifiably NC with this guy. So she must be totally transparent. 

3) It will take her many weeks of withdrawal before she will be truly ready to fix the marriage. She will backslide. When that happens the clocks starts over.

4) Do His Needs Her Needs together. Especially do the boundary setting.

I like the Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. book.

She is going to have to do the heavy lifting. It takes two for a marriage.

before you forgive her you really need to be sure you know what you are forgiving her for.

Do not rug sweep.

Oh yeah and get some sleep.


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## Entropy3000

warlock07 said:


> You let the OM manipulate the exposure. She must have got the "His wife pursued me and her husband is jealous and suspicious" line and she must have bought it. Which is why it was repeatedly stated to not let either of them know that you are exposing.
> 
> And for all it is worth, it could be another woman posing as his wife. How do you confirm that it was his wife you talked to. It happened earlier. The OM intercepted his wife mails(ing). One OM minimized the extent of the affair(SomedayDig), One poster made the BS and WS look crazy to his wife(AlmostRecovered)


Yes. Very possible.


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## warlock07

See if you can talk to the co-worker. The troubles are from 2 years right? There could be more than one OM. Talk to this guy and verify the extent of the affair.


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## keko

warlock07 said:


> See if you can talk to the co-worker. The troubles are from 2 years right? There could be more than one OM. Talk to this guy and verify the extent of the affair.


Possibly OM's brother as well.


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## Ansley

I still dont buy the coworkers/brothers/ friend or whatever that was. Its a coworker and I would want to know for sure. Dont forget to mention testing for STD's.


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## Ansley

When I was going to counceling one question that stuck with me was "_*what do you want the end result to be?" *_Damn that was hard to answer. If she is willing to work on her part of the marriage and be 100% transparent she wont tolerate this (assuming there is only one affair) being rehashed over and over. She is humiliated and stunned right now. She is remorseful she has been caught. The shock is to much to actually feel real remorse (hence yesterdays comment from her "kill me now") That will wear off. I know you cant predict the future...but do you see yourself eventually letting sleeping dogs lie (no pun intended) and working on recovering the marriage?

Have you had any thoughts on what to do about the sister? Not sure if she knew/knows but she damn sure wasn't looking after her sister or her neices/nephews.


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## Nod

Well i would say she is going to leave now if the OM wife is done. No need to hide...


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## endoftheroad

She, appears, to be very regretfull. Only time will tell. And yes I am prepared at this time to let sleeping dogs lie if she can prove her undying commitment to me over time. We will see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nod

You are a stronger man than me. I could never let that go. Good Luck!


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## endoftheroad

Nod said:


> You are a stronger man than me. I could never let that go. Good Luck!


I don't know that I'll ever be able to let it go. But her actions from this point on are going to determine everything.

On a side note, can i get a restraining order on him? or does she have to? just wondering if that's an option


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## Entropy3000

It takes a lot to get a RO. I don't see the point right now. If he comes to your home he is risking serious harm.


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## endoftheroad

I sent him a text stating that i want his word that he will not attempt to contact her anymore. Told him anything less is not acceptable, and pursuing it isn't in anyone's best interest. He agreed. I told him if things go as they should from this point, him and I will never meet or talk again. But if he did not comply the risk would surely not be worth it. 

I hope they both understand the opportunity I've given them and neither make the same mistake twice. The husband of the next wife he ****s may more than likely not deal with it as well as i did. At least considering when i dealt with it.


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## keko

endoftheroad, I've mentioned it earlier but given the length of the affair and her treating you like sh*t, I'm afraid there is more to this story then just this one instance. You could ask her to write down any and every affair she had in detail and she'll be taken to polygraph. This will either ensure her honesty with regards to only one affair or it'll uncover things that you'll reconsider R.

I understand you were just hit with the worst thing a man can possible be hit with, but after some deep sleep do push her further in uncovering more truth.


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## endoftheroad

I have every intention of making her earn me. And she knows what it will do to me if she lies about anything. Given the opportunity she is getting.
I also told her to not give me **** for the fact that I am still going to tap her phone, have her followed, and be up her ass around every turn. If she can't stand the heat, she knows where the door is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Also now would be the time to go to your/her family's and have her tell what she did.


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## Nod

Just curious, after all of this, why & how do you not kick her out?


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## warlock07

Don't let the momentary feeling of being in control of the situation(after being in a limbo for 2 years) and threatening the OM blind you to the the reality. Remember, they think you are chump and he has been doing(sorry) your wife for atleast the last year. Many BS make this mistake. You are no where near the truth.

She is just ashamed that she is caught. She did it possibly for more than a year. She possibly did stuff with him that she usually denied you all your married life. She belittled you in front of front of friends and relatives. In the meantime, she made everything your fault while your were dealing with the death of your family. She totally covered her tracks and the deceit was entirely intentional. She was putting on lingerie for him. If you recall this year back, you will find the memory and family events tainted by her affair. Suddenly things that did not make sense, do.

Her regret and remorse mean nothing now. It wasn't a one night stand. You should carefully observe her actions for the next few months and don't believe one word she says until you can verify it. This looks like an emotional affair. These things don't end fast. They will try to reconnect once things settle down. 

Put your marriage on probation and make a decision in a few weeks to see where you are mentally and emotionally in the marriage. Don't make the decision to make R so soon. Get as much information from her as you can. The anger phase will soon hit you. So be cautious and don't do anything stupid that might get you into trouble!! Also stay away from alcohol


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## Nod

Great post. She was belittling you just a few days ago. She has no respect for you and only feels bad b/c she was caught. She isn't going to magically turn off the feelings for him & fall in love with you. She is hurting because her fantasy world is crumbling. She couldn't care less how hurt you are. She is thinking of him & how hurt he is. It sucks. I would have to take so many anti depressants after this..


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## Ansley

Nod said:


> Just curious, after all of this, why & how do you not kick her out?


THey have been together almost 20 years and have children. Couples have recovered and he is hoping for this. Also he said there is more to the story he has not had time to share yet.


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## endoftheroad

Man, 8 hours of sleep after the past 2 days is just not enough. 
I want to thank all of you for posting on here. And I see spending a lot of my free time here. The things I have read have really helped me feel like there isn't only one option.
I know what she did was wrong. I love her. Right now, I hate her. But you understand.
At some point here I will definately tell more of my back story. I look forward to getting all of your advice on where I may have went wrong, and if there are things I can do to maybe make this thing work in the end.
I'm not afraid of divorce, or even of being lonely (have felt alone for a long time)
I'm mostly afraid of feeling like a worthless failure who can't keep his family together. 
My father put up with my mom till the day he died. And while I know my mom was a ***** to my dad most of the time, he loved her and his family. And he worked his ass off till he died to give all involved the best life he could. I want to be strong enough to be that guy. I want to believe my marriage, and my wife, are worth the fight. Staying on this forum, and getting all of your input on my situation, I feel right now, will help me determine if it is all worth it.
I just hope I can make it past all I have seen and heard. Cause honestly, right now I can't imagine being with my wife again after what she did. She's gonna have to work so hard to prove her worth to this family. I just hope she has it in her.
And, I think tonight when she gets home from work we are going to take a ride to her parents house. Maybe even to my moms. I think she does need to tell them what she did. Maybe then her parents will understand why their daughter claims to have been so unhappy, and that it was her fault all along. Maybe they have more respect for me knowing that I am still willing to forgive her. Maybe knowing that she has shamed her family will help with her not repeating this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> And, I think tonight when she gets home from work we are going to take a ride to her parents house. Maybe even to my moms. I think she does need to tell them what she did. Maybe then her parents will understand why their daughter claims to have been so unhappy, and that it was her fault all along. Maybe they have more respect for me knowing that I am still willing to forgive her. Maybe knowing that she has shamed her family will help with her not repeating this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

The only reason the affair went on is that she hid it from you and her family. She hid it because she knew it was wrong and her loved ones would disprove and give her grief about it. This will bring it to light and help the healing. Good move.


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## anchorwatch

Did she send the OM a no contact letter? That letter would help to get a RO against him, if he contacts her again.


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## endoftheroad

anchorwatch said:


> Did she send the OM a no contact letter? That letter would help to get a RO against him, if he contacts her again.


How would I go about making this happen, and as fast as possible?
I know Ive got both of them to tell me they will no longer be in contact. A year is not a fling. and i know nothing of this relationship beyond the lies and half truths I have been told. 
What kind of reason do I need for the no contact letter? Just a well worded letter, or this have to be somewhat of a legal document?
Sorry, new to this all


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> How would I go about making this happen, and as fast as possible?
> I know Ive got both of them to tell me they will no longer be in contact. A year is not a fling. and i know nothing of this relationship beyond the lies and half truths I have been told.
> What kind of reason do I need for the no contact letter? Just a well worded letter, or this have to be somewhat of a legal document?
> Sorry, new to this all


There are examples in the newbie link you were sent. Check your PMs. Have it sent registered, return receipt. If he violates the request, You can request and RO for harassment. 

Make sure that she tells you any time the OM tries to contact her. Be wary, his brother may relay messages to her. The brother may also fish to see whats going on in your relationship and relay that back to the OM.


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## Nod

There is nothing legal about the letter. It just needs to be in her own words. And you have to make sure she follows through. She will be heart broken for several weeks. She is probably in love with this man, & she knows she can't have him. 

Seriously, you need to sit her down & cry with her, get her to open up. Also you need to ascertain if she really wants to be married to you or is she just feeling guilty. She is thinking of how she can contact him without you knowing. This means disposable phones, secret meetings, etc.

Your love sounds strong for her. All if us here know what it's like to adore a woman who at minimum doesn't love you back. It can be hard, but make sure you take care of yourself & your children. I hope you can work through this.


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## endoftheroad

If I find out the brother is involved THEN I WILL involve her HR dept and this will go in the opposite direction. I don't know what the best way to deal with the brother. Now that you mentioned that, it really bothers me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Yeah, I guess your emotions are running your thoughts right now. The other posters did mentioned the brother and questioned the type of interaction she had with him. 

I'd find out how close she works with the brother, how he introduced her to the OM and how contact started. Go over it with her, find a way that's comfortable with you to stay away from interaction with the brother. Transfer, work in another location, change shifts...ect. If not then contact HR.

In the end she will have to give you all the details of the A and they will have to match up with emails, phone calls, text and rendezvous. Or you won't be able to heal. 

Did you find the link to the letter and the survival guide?


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## Janie

endoftheroad said:


> I'm mostly afraid of feeling like a worthless failure who can't keep his family together.
> My father put up with my mom till the day he died. And while I know my mom was a ***** to my dad most of the time, he loved her and his family. And he worked his ass off till he died to give all involved the best life he could. I want to be strong enough to be that guy. I want to believe my marriage, and my wife, are worth the fight.


Be careful with this line of thought. While it is admirable to strive to be what we admire, self-respect cannot be sacrificed.

I hear in your writing that you are strong with your expectations and boundaries - good for you. 

Here's where the trouble lies...
Please be sure you are doing it for the right reasons!!!!

The desire to emulate your father is admirable. [Is he still alive - is it possible you have idealized him if not?]
♦♦ _*You admire your father's undying commitment to your mother.*_ ♦♦
Great! The part that bothers me is the rest of the sentence.
♦♦ _*You admire your father's undying commitment to your mother - even though she emasculated & abused him.*_ ♦♦

Let me reiterate, I see you will not accept this behavior from your wife - your boundaries seem to be much stronger and appropriate than your father's. 

I only want to point out that our life outlooks - when influenced by our desire to emulate our parents, the crazy unique power/bond they have over us, as children and still as adults - can create skewed motivations and introduce undue influence over our lives.

I fear I'm speaking too vaguely for understanding.
My husband and his ex-wife stayed in an altogether unsatisfying marriage for 20 YEARS! My H had a good childhood and much admiration for his father - who was a good (not perfect), loving father - and exceptionally close to his mother (who died when he was 18) - and saw and felt the love between his parents throughout his childhood. He wanted to emulate that in his own life and for his children. So, he decided to do what his dad did - work hard so his wife can stay at home, encourage the kids, be their biggest fans, etc. and his life would work out as he hoped. Simple recipe to a complex situation. Because of this delusion he created within himself, he sacrificed his self-respect for far too long.

Please stay strong and be extra aware of the power this dynamic has over you.

Best wishes.


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## endoftheroad

My father died of pancreatic cancer on April 10th. He was diagnosed 3 weeks before. So I'm sure you can at least begin to understand how I feel about this whole situation based even solely on that fact. 
I'm trying to work today, because I have to. Trying to do as much as I can before I just can't take it anymore I guess. But I have to do it.
I still don't know what, if anything, I am going to say to the people she tells. Anyone but her parents probably think I AM a doormat. Sigh....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

endoftheroad said:


> How would I go about making this happen, and as fast as possible?
> I know Ive got both of them to tell me they will no longer be in contact. A year is not a fling. and i know nothing of this relationship beyond the lies and half truths I have been told.
> What kind of reason do I need for the no contact letter? Just a well worded letter, or this have to be somewhat of a legal document?
> Sorry, new to this all


click the newbie link in my signature and you'll find a template of one

also lots of other stuff you will find useful in that link, 

I also recommend you ask a mod to move this into CWI as I missed your thread until now and I'm sure others who could be of help to you have also missed it


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## endoftheroad

I haven't been able to check any private msg on my phone.
I also am very anxious to find out, once I remember to get the model of her phone, to see deleted text messages. Right now I think I could uncover a lot of the lies and truth if that was possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

endoftheroad said:


> I sent him a text stating that i want his word that he will not attempt to contact her anymore. Told him anything less is not acceptable, and pursuing it isn't in anyone's best interest. He agreed. I told him if things go as they should from this point, him and I will never meet or talk again. But if he did not comply the risk would surely not be worth it.
> 
> I hope they both understand the opportunity I've given them and neither make the same mistake twice. The husband of the next wife he ****s may more than likely not deal with it as well as i did. At least considering when i dealt with it.


Not sure what word of a cheater is worth. Cheating is not an honorable thing. 

Are we assuming that this was a PA? If so his was already willing to not only cheta on his wife but have sex with your wife.

Do not go by peoples words in these cases. It is about verifiable actions. Over a long period of time.

Lets hope the next wife he has sex with is not yours. But he will likely get away with that one too.

I am not critisizing what you are doing. But these days men who pursue other mens wives are pretty safe in doing so especially if single.


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## endoftheroad

I don't believe him. I didn't really ask him to believe him. A few people on here were quick to jump on me for the threats I said I made. I don't take back a word I said to either of them. And while I really am not a violent man AT ALL, what he did already people have died for. And that he consider himself lucky that he has the option to simply cut all ties with my wife. Him not doing so from this point is his own stupidity. I don't know what I will do if it continues. I will tell you I am a man who takes responsibility for his actions. It's why I am who I am. I will think before I make a life altering decision. Just as much as anyone else in my position to say the least 
Is it a bad curiosity to have to know what this guy looks like? I feel like I want to see what she was attracted to. In talking to him, he sounded like an *******. Didn't sound all that intelligent in the emails I'm reading from him to her. But if this could do more harm than good please explain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Did you search facebook and other social media for his pics?


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## Jibril

If it helps you with closure, I suppose it makes sense to see what the dog looks like. Do it. 

It shouldn't be _too _hard to put his phone number and town/address into a google search-bar and find him online.


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## endoftheroad

I've taken away access to her email that was setup through her smart phone. It's mine until I can go through every last email that I feel draws suspicion. She can watch if she wants. And I will print out for her any emails which she needs. 
Going to have my mother and her parents tonight so she can tell them all. Not sure how this is gonna go, as my mom has been really hurt seeing me the way I've been. Especially after having to live with her for a month...a month after my father died. Not sure I can handle it if my mom breaks down and asks how she could do that to me while my father was dying. Guess we will see. 
More later.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

You ask them for their support in repairing your marriage. She ask them for their forgiveness.


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## Entropy3000

endoftheroad said:


> Man, 8 hours of sleep after the past 2 days is just not enough.
> I want to thank all of you for posting on here. And I see spending a lot of my free time here. The things I have read have really helped me feel like there isn't only one option.
> I know what she did was wrong. I love her. Right now, I hate her. But you understand.
> At some point here I will definately tell more of my back story. I look forward to getting all of your advice on where I may have went wrong, and if there are things I can do to maybe make this thing work in the end.
> I'm not afraid of divorce, or even of being lonely (have felt alone for a long time)
> I'm mostly afraid of feeling like a worthless failure who can't keep his family together.
> My father put up with my mom till the day he died. And while I know my mom was a ***** to my dad most of the time, he loved her and his family. And he worked his ass off till he died to give all involved the best life he could. I want to be strong enough to be that guy. I want to believe my marriage, and my wife, are worth the fight. Staying on this forum, and getting all of your input on my situation, I feel right now, will help me determine if it is all worth it.
> I just hope I can make it past all I have seen and heard. Cause honestly, right now I can't imagine being with my wife again after what she did. She's gonna have to work so hard to prove her worth to this family. I just hope she has it in her.
> And, I think tonight when she gets home from work we are going to take a ride to her parents house. Maybe even to my moms. I think she does need to tell them what she did. Maybe then her parents will understand why their daughter claims to have been so unhappy, and that it was her fault all along. Maybe they have more respect for me knowing that I am still willing to forgive her. Maybe knowing that she has shamed her family will help with her not repeating this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a perfect example of how we teach our kids what marriage is about. I understand you loved your dad. But do you want your son ( if you have one ) to repeat what your dad and you are going through?


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## sandc

Entropy3000 said:


> Not sure what word of a cheater is worth. Cheating is not an honorable thing.
> 
> Are we assuming that this was a PA? If so his was already willing to not only cheta on his wife but have sex with your wife.
> 
> Do not go by peoples words in these cases. It is about verifiable actions. Over a long period of time.
> 
> Lets hope the next wife he has sex with is not yours. But he will likely get away with that one too.
> 
> I am not critisizing what you are doing. But these days men who pursue other mens wives are pretty safe in doing so especially if single.


:iagree:

I know you already probably know this but it bears writing down anyway...

Lying is the cheater's native language.


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## keko

Print off every email before she deletes them by other means. You'll read them later.


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## endoftheroad

I've taken away access to her email that was setup through her smart phone. It's mine until I can go through every last email that I feel draws suspicion. She can watch if she wants. And I will print out for her any emails which she needs. 
Going to have my mother and her parents tonight so she can tell them all. Not sure how this is gonna go, as my mom has been really hurt seeing me the way I've been. Especially after having to live with her for a month...a month after my father died. Not sure I can handle it if my mom breaks down and asks how she could do that to me while my father was dying. Guess we will see. 
More later.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Well, right now my problem is going to be dealing with the father in law. If after he knows the truth he tosses out the "it takes 2" **** I will firmly let him know that if he doesn't support these decisions I can change my mind because of him. That's what I feel like I'm going to say if he goes there. Bad idea?
Not that it matters because I will change my mind if he disrespects me. 

Should I even go? I feel like I should, but I don't know if its best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

Who cares WTF he thinks or says? It's your marriage and your life. It's your wife's actions that matter.


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## anchorwatch

You and your wife ask their loving support for the marriage. Let them know the both of you will not stand for any thing but encouragement. This is not a place for blame, its about working toward reconciliation and saving the family right now. Get on the same page with your wife first. She in turn will need your support when she ask for forgiveness from them.
If he does get out of hand, ask him to leave if he can not support the marriage. 

He ought to thank you for not tossing her out and embarrassing her in front of the community and work. 

Any family or friends that know or knew about the A and condone it or hid it, are no friends of your marriage.


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## endoftheroad

I don't have a lot of time to do much else other than check and read this thread. So thanks for the people that have posted. I hope to get to some of the reading and stuff. Right now I don't think my mind is going to process that information as well as if I wait and have a few to catch my breath. I was happy to be able to goto work and only end up in tears once. I could only go 6 hours before I just had to get out. But at least I did it. Can't afford not to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Went to the in laws. Me, her her mom dad and sister. Boy was that a mistake. not for one minute did i feel like they were disappointed. They made me feel like I was responsible for making her do what she did. For a year? FFS give me a break. I wanted to punch her sister for the attitude she had. She was trying to compare Boyfriends who she had been cheated on by in the past (married with kids now) as if they bare any resemblance. I asked her How she would feel if her now husband did what her sister did to me. She couldn't begin to answer that. Then I mentioned that My marriage is 18 years, not 6. so I think there is no comparison. I hated that they all tried to justify it. I knew it would be a mistake
So, yeah...Feelin great after that one. Ok, next post I will try to explain how my marriage has went and how I know it got to this point.


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## keko

An enabling family can only raise a child like your wife, sorry man.

Don't beat yourself over it, you just started exposing her and you have a long way to go. She needs to be pressured from all angles and start facing the consequences before she can realize what she did and how damaging it was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Just take her phone and give her one of those cheap phones(or any other phone) that she can use temporarily. The more the use her old phone(the one with deleted texts and emails), the more the chance that the data will be overwritten(either naturally or by her).


remember, some cheaters would rather die than give you the truth. You need to verify by your own means. 

And did her attitude change after the meeting with the family? And maybe SIL is cheating on her H too!!


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## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> Then I mentioned that My marriage is 18 years, not 6. so I think there is no comparison. I hated that they all tried to justify it.


I don't think there's a difference between infidelity in an 8 year marriage versus a 6 year marriage. The longevity has nothing to do with it.

As far as the inlaws go, they're going to support family.

You will be the outsider, always. 

I'm not the least bit surprised they rallied against you and did all that blameshifting. 

I'm more surprised that you thought something would actually be accomplished, like they'd all take your side, and tell her how horrible she is as a person, as if that would somehow fix things even if they did.


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## keko

Kindi, he accomplished a lot by visiting the inlaws. For one if they somehow didn't know the affair they now know it. Secondly as much as OP knew their view towards him, this just solidified his view of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I showed her the recorder I used. I told her I lied about how long I knew, and how I found out. 
I can't do this anymore. She knows she did wrong, and if she says she's done with him, I will believe her until she proves otherwise. If after telling her family and mine, she decides its worth the risk to try and continue what she was doing, my spying on her isn't going to change that.
She knows now that she can't have both anymore, and that only worse things are going to happen if she goes that route. She was given a choice, and so far she claims to have chosen me. 
I guess from here on out I need to focus on how much "I" want this to work out, and if it even can be worked out.
The total disclosure thing isn't going to work for me. What I know now is killing me. And continuing to dig is only going to make things 10x worse for me mentally. I already know in my heart that what she did shouldnt be forgiven or given any slack, I know that she did what she did because of how our marriage was going. As much as it hurts, I do understand that. And if I want to try and recover I feel like I need to already start to let certain things go. Even though this is all so fresh. 
Does anyone reading this feel like from what you have read that I have even a small change to take this to 20+ years? Or does a situation such as this normally never recover?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

Not shocked at how her family acted. She wouldve have been so deceitful had she been raised better. At least now you know for certain what kind of grandparents your children have.


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> Went to the in laws. Me, her her mom dad and sister. Boy was that a mistake. not for one minute did i feel like they were disappointed. They made me feel like I was responsible for making her do what she did. For a year? FFS give me a break. I wanted to punch her sister for the attitude she had. She was trying to compare Boyfriends who she had been cheated on by in the past (married with kids now) as if they bare any resemblance. I asked her How she would feel if her now husband did what her sister did to me. She couldn't begin to answer that. Then I mentioned that My marriage is 18 years, not 6. so I think there is no comparison. I hated that they all tried to justify it. I knew it would be a mistake
> So, yeah...Feelin great after that one. Ok, next post I will try to explain how my marriage has went and how I know it got to this point.


Good, now you know where each one of them stand. They are not friends of your marriage. 

From the interaction you describe, I'd say your SIL had full knowledge and was supportive of the A. She will continue to advise your wife that your the problem and help in any deception. 

As for her parents, it's more than likely your wife and SIL have been bad mouthing you for a long time and convinced them that your the problem and what's best for your wife 'is to get rid of you'. They probably are more disappointed that the separation, divorce and their daughters happiness has been delayed. The drama that their daughter was screwing someone else's husband and wrecking two families has just interfered with their idea of what the outcome should be, divorce. 

Did your wife stand up for the marriage? Did she defend you or did she make excuses for her A?


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> I showed her the recorder I used. I told her I lied about how long I knew, and how I found out.
> I can't do this anymore. She knows she did wrong, and if she says she's done with him, I will believe her until she proves otherwise. If after telling her family and mine, she decides its worth the risk to try and continue what she was doing, my spying on her isn't going to change that.
> She knows now that she can't have both anymore, and that only worse things are going to happen if she goes that route. She was given a choice, and so far she claims to have chosen me.
> I guess from here on out I need to focus on how much "I" want this to work out, and if it even can be worked out.
> The total disclosure thing isn't going to work for me. What I know now is killing me. And continuing to dig is only going to make things 10x worse for me mentally. I already know in my heart that what she did shouldnt be forgiven or given any slack, I know that she did what she did because of how our marriage was going. As much as it hurts, I do understand that. And if I want to try and recover I feel like I need to already start to let certain things go. Even though this is all so fresh.
> Does anyone reading this feel like from what you have read that I have even a small change to take this to 20+ years? Or does a situation such as this normally never recover?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do not make any life changing decisions about your family now, next week or next month. You need time to be in the right state of mind for that, it's all to fresh right now. You need time to see whats true or not, actions not words.

You have a chance if she is fully remorseful and does the work to prove it, then you have to accept that's good enough for you. 

You can walk away and no one can blame you for that. But you may question yourself later what would have happened if you tried to make it work. You know there are no guaranties in life. 

Follow the guide, it will help you from making mistakes that will let you fail. Not all of it may be for you, but you will go in eyes wide open.

Did she write the NC letter?


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## endoftheroad

She didn't do much talking. It was awkward. But how couldn't it be. 
I'm doing my best to reassure my wife that, while I love her like I do, I just need to know if she really is willing to make the attempt to fix us. I'm not making excuses for her. But she knows what I might do if she tries to continue to juggle family and boyfriend. She needs to decide what she wants. Weather it be me, him, or no one. And focus on that. Right now she claims she wants me. That may change. 
Her parents told me that my wife has never talked Bad about me to them. I will believe that. I know this is their daughter, but these people have strong morals and family values. They don't condone what she did, and I know they are going to comfort her, not dis own her. I don't believe for one second they knew what she was doing. Only that we were both not happy. 
And the SIL may have known, she may not have. At this point I don't even care. I no longer look at her the same way, and never will. So weather she did or not doesn't matter at this point. Respect for her and her point of view is gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Oh, and all she said to her parents in my defense was to please try not to judge me. Which, they seemed to do anyways. Oh well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Have a MOD move your thread to the infidelity area. 

There you can get post from those who have both succeeded and failed at reconciliation.


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> Her parents told me that my wife has never talked Bad about me to them. I will believe that. I know this is their daughter, but these people have strong morals and family values. They don't condone what she did, and I know they are going to comfort her, not dis own her. I don't believe for one second they knew what she was doing. Only that we were both not happy.
> And the SIL may have known, she may not have. At this point I don't even care. I no longer look at her the same way, and never will. So weather she did or not doesn't matter at this point. Respect for her and her point of view is gone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good to hear about her parents. 

I agree, don't trust you SIL.


----------



## endoftheroad

I plan on asking her to write the NC letter over the weekend. She's an emotional wreck, as she should be. I'll let it lie until we have more time and less responsibility over the weekend. How should I feel if she doesn't agree with the letter? Or doesn't want to do it? Is it something I would regret if I didn't make her do it?
Sorry, I just don't know much of anything right now as far as the "right" move. 
I just know that I no longer want to make the wrong move if I can help it. I'm sure that's part of why I am where I am right now...making the wrong moves and choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Are you scared to lose her?


----------



## Almostrecovered

endoftheroad said:


> I plan on asking her to write the NC letter over the weekend. She's an emotional wreck, as she should be. I'll let it lie until we have more time and less responsibility over the weekend. How should I feel if she doesn't agree with the letter? Or doesn't want to do it? Is it something I would regret if I didn't make her do it?
> Sorry, I just don't know much of anything right now as far as the "right" move.
> I just know that I no longer want to make the wrong move if I can help it. I'm sure that's part of why I am where I am right now...making the wrong moves and choices.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


in my opinion you need at the bare minimum 4 things for R to work


1) No Contact- if there's contact with OM then the affair isn't over, end of story. If she works with him, she quits her job. She blocks the OM's number, email and facebook. She writes the NC letter and if OM ever "fishes" or contacts her, she ignores an dtells you of it right away.

2) Complete transparency- all passwords, emails, facebook, access to phone are an open book to you. She informs you of her whereabouts and makes an effort to help you feel comfortable in where and what she is doing. At the same time you do need to verify on your own thru snooping, as much as you don't want to do this it will help rebuild trust the more you see that she is doing what she is saying.

3) She demonstrates true remorse (see chart below). No trickle truth, blameshifting or gaslighting. She does the heavy lifting and helps you heal. She takes 100% of the blame for the affair and the decision to betray you.

4) Spend at least 10-15 hours a week of one on one time (no TV) to rebond and restart the marriage.


the remorse chart












so to answer that question- if she doesn't write the NC letter then she isn't willing to take the steps necessary to R and I think you should file.


----------



## anchorwatch

That's one step that should be taken.

The letter is for you. To show you her resolve and for her to give you some power, to keep him from making contact. 

If she won't write the letter, she is not ready to break it off with him.


----------



## Losing

She's way too concerned about her tan. Knowing I don't give a f, she has to be trying to impress someone. 

That statement sounds like some issues I was having. My wife is hot. She does NOT even need makeup and actually rarely wears it. But sometimes she would put it on and I didn't stare at her and tell her how freaking smoking hot she looked. SHE WAS PUTTING IT ON FOR ME! After a while of me not giving a f, she started putting it on for others.

Women like to be noticed, especially by their man.


----------



## endoftheroad

Then This weekend, I will tell her to make the NC letter. I will show her what was posted on here a few posts back on how we need to go about starting to R.
Hopefully she is willing. Can only imagine what is gonna go through my head if she doesn't. 
Any yes, I am afraid of loosing my wife. I've loved before, but this month will be 19 years. She is my life, even if it hasn't been the greatest. It's all i know, and It's all I still want right now. 
If that changes for me from here on out, It will be due to what I know, and what she is or isn't willing to do to make this work.
I hope I can see it all through. 
As you can imagine, my whole world has just collapsed on my head. I'm not threatening anything and have been very collected during the exposure of this affair. I just hope to god that she means what she says, and knows that I wont be able to handle it if it continues.


----------



## christeeanna

I am divorced and it worked out for me but i don't recommend it!
I think you should go to see a counselor with your wife. She sounds like a real **** but your other options are not good. Divorce is terrible and you will miss out on your children's lives in so many ways. And what you meet out there in the singles scene is not going to be any better. I don't mean to sound skeptical. I moved on and met someone but only found one good guy after being divorced for 14 years.
If I were you I would find a way to deal with be married even if it means developing a bit of a social life or something that gets you out of the house.


----------



## Almostrecovered

endoftheroad said:


> Any yes, I am afraid of loosing my wife.


understandable

but you need to convey to her that you will be fine without her if she chooses to break NC, transparency or remorse


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> Then This weekend, I will tell her to make the NC letter. I will show her what was posted on here a few posts back on how we need to go about starting to R.
> Hopefully she is willing. Can only imagine what is gonna go through my head if she doesn't.
> Any yes, I am afraid of loosing my wife. I've loved before, but this month will be 19 years. She is my life, even if it hasn't been the greatest. It's all i know, and It's all I still want right now.
> If that changes for me from here on out, It will be due to what I know, and what she is or isn't willing to do to make this work.
> I hope I can see it all through.
> As you can imagine, my whole world has just collapsed on my head. I'm not threatening anything and have been very collected during the exposure of this affair. I just hope to god that she means what she says, and knows that I wont be able to handle it if it continues.


I would not bring her here. This is your place of refuge and advice. A place where you can vent your feelings without fear of being wrong or right. 

You can print out the the materiel that she needs to work on, with out bringing her here. 

Order these books, there on kindle, read it together this week end. 

"Surviving an Affair" by Willard F. Jr. Harley and Jennifer Harley Chalmers

Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity by Shirley P. Glass 

"His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard F. Jr. Harley


----------



## sandc

endoftheroad said:


> Then This weekend, I will tell her to make the NC letter. I will show her what was posted on here a few posts back on how we need to go about starting to R.
> Hopefully she is willing. Can only imagine what is gonna go through my head if she doesn't.
> Any yes, I am afraid of loosing my wife. I've loved before, but this month will be 19 years. She is my life, even if it hasn't been the greatest. It's all i know, and It's all I still want right now.
> If that changes for me from here on out, It will be due to what I know, and what she is or isn't willing to do to make this work.
> I hope I can see it all through.
> As you can imagine, my whole world has just collapsed on my head. I'm not threatening anything and have been very collected during the exposure of this affair. I just hope to god that she means what she says, and knows that I wont be able to handle it if it continues.


I know but if she won't agree to and stick to the above terms what kind of life is that? You'll need to let her go at that point. The alternative is an open marriage. Do you want her so much that you are willing to share her with another man from now on? 

I know this is emotionally draining but this is who she's become. You need to think about whether or not you want to spend the rest of you life either a) checking up on her or b) sharing her. That is what life with her will be like from here on in.


----------



## Almostrecovered

sandc said:


> I know this is emotionally draining but this is who she's become. You need to think about whether or not you want to spend the rest of you life either a) checking up on her or b) sharing her. That is what life with her will be like from here on in.


speaking from my experience I no longer check up on her (altho yes, you do have to check up her on her and verify her actions for a period of time) nor have I shared her since DDay

the trick is figuring out what kind of wife she will be post Dday


----------



## Entropy3000

kindi said:


> I don't think there's a difference between infidelity in an 8 year marriage versus a 6 year marriage. The longevity has nothing to do with it.
> 
> As far as the inlaws go, they're going to support family.
> 
> You will be the outsider, always.
> 
> I'm not the least bit surprised they rallied against you and did all that blameshifting.
> 
> I'm more surprised that you thought something would actually be accomplished, like they'd all take your side, and tell her how horrible she is as a person, as if that would somehow fix things even if they did.


I disagree. Yes cheating is awful at anytime. But the longer a person invests in someone else the more significant it is. 

Being cheated on after three years is terrible. But being cheated on after 20 years is a much more serious thing to deal with. It is a lifes investment versus a short term bad choice in someone. Much easier to walk away after fewer years. It has to do with the aggregate amount of giving one has done along with sharing life experiences good, and bad, and the trials and tribulations that come with very long term relationships. So any betrayal is devastating but to do it after many years is a deeper betrayal IMO anyway.


----------



## warlock07

Has she revealed the exact nature of this affair? You might want to read how cheaters(in affair support forums) get reeled back into the affair and take it much more underground after a little while because the affair was so intense emotionally and sexually.

It is too soon to think that her remorse is genuine. You will know better in a few months. Remorse has to last through the next few years for the marriage to survive.


----------



## endoftheroad

sandc said:


> I know but if she won't agree to and stick to the above terms what kind of life is that? You'll need to let her go at that point. The alternative is an open marriage. Do you want her so much that you are willing to share her with another man from now on?
> 
> I know this is emotionally draining but this is who she's become. You need to think about whether or not you want to spend the rest of you life either a) checking up on her or b) sharing her. That is what life with her will be like from here on in.


I think that If we are able to get past this, one day I will forgive her. Because I know that things I've done in the past were contributing factors in why she did what she did. I am not to blame, But I do take responsibility for the fact that we both drove each other to cheat. I just never actually cheated. Not even a kiss of another women. 
But I almost did. 10 years ago, because she was pushing me away and denying my needs, so i started to believe it was ok. She caught me before it got anywhere, and I have paid for it everyday since.
So, now you can at least understand more of why I feel like I also owe it to her to at least try and forgive her. While I know the 2 mistakes are not equal, they were probably both caused by the same thing. I was just naive and I didn't believe she had the time, much less the heart, to cheat on me at this point in our relationship. So i turned a blind eye to the fact that she could be. 
I spent a lot of time this year trying to make right by her. To make her happy. Because I still want her to believe that her happiness means my happiness. But I feel I cant continue to try and appease her if she is not willing to do the same for me. Especially right now.
If things can somehow work out with us, It will be one of the happiest times of my life, considering.
If they don't, It will probably be one of the worse.
But If We separate, and she has told me (not me guessing till i die) that she thinks things would be better if we weren't together anymore, I Will move on as well as i know how. I don't want to see it happen, but people do it everyday right?
The thought of missing so much of my kids life's if it doesn't work out truly breaks my heart the rest of the way. To see them in any pain over our problem is just going to be devastating for both of us. As much as I want to make it about them, for the better...I can't. Because I know that if she can never be happy being with me, the kids will see it. And that would be a lot worse than what they've seen already. I know they see something is wrong. They may be kids, But they are not dumb. They don't know why I was living at grandmas house for a month and always in tears, but they know. That's already hard enough to deal with.
I just want to do whats best for everyone involved. If my wife is willing, I am willing. I don't know yet if i am able, but i am willing.
And, I will only print This thread and let her see what i said and what was said to me. I in no way want her to be on this board. Because you're right, this has been my safe haven. And right now it is the only place I feel comfortable saying anything I've said. Right now I need all the unbiased help and opinions I can get. The fact that this is here for me is godsend for me right now.
Although, I still cant bring myself to go work today. I went and talked to my partner. Couldn't even hold back my emotions in front of him before i even opened my mouth.
Just ate a few chips, But other than that I haven't eaten in forever. Well, since before i started this thread. I feel like I have an ulcer and my appetite is not there. at all. The amount of weight I've lost because of not eating over the past few months cant be healthy for me. no cloths fit, belts i have wont even keep my pants up, and my arms look like twigs. I hope that in the next few weeks I at least know what direction this all is going to go in so I can finally have some piece of mind to even care.


----------



## anchorwatch

You've got to eat. Knock down a couple on Ensure shakes during the day. 

Read the books. Like a lot of couples, the two of you don't even know what a good marriage looks like. Do the read (His Needs, Her Needs) and see how simple it can be, if you know what to do.


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## warlock07

Go meet a doctor. You need to take care of your health.


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> And, because of the stress in my life from just my wife, I have been on paxil for a decade.


I have some questions. You say she's given you stress for a decade. In what way?

Did you determine that he's a coworker? I can't tell. If so, are you demanding that she quit her job?


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## turnera

btw, you can have your psychiatrist adjust your Paxil temporarily. Do it for your kids.


----------



## Shaggy

You should reach out to the OMW and both compare notes about what you've found out, but also to get an update on what the OMs situation is.

I think you should expose the affair to the brother at work.

A big part of how she treated you for a long time is with disrespect and dismissal. She wore sweats for you, sexy clothes for him.

I suggest you no longer accept the sweats and the attitude. 

I also suggest that right now you together with her go through her wardrobe, lingere, and things. Everything she wore for him gets thrown in the trash, everything he gave or bought her including gifts all get tossed. You want to purge his physical stench from your world.

Obviously the any sexy lingerie she has will have to all go, since they purpose she would have had for it was him, since she cut you off from even kissing.

It's very symbolic to her to do this. It is you purging him, you beating him an reclaiming your castle.

If she's gotten jewelry etc that in the past year it's likely from him if you didn't buy it for her, think back to Xmas and feb. 14 and anything that she just bought fir herself.


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## turnera

So, I assume you now:
Have all passwords removed or in your possession
Hold out your hand and she gives you her phone any time you ask
Have her searching for a PRO-MARRIAGE marriage counselor that YOU will first agree to 
Have her fixing her resume if she works with OM
Are considering having her go with you to tell her parents what she has done so that you will get the support you need and the impetus SHE needs to stay away from OM


----------



## endoftheroad

I started the paxil because I was depressed in my marriage and life. I dont like that I cannot get off of it. I've tried. The way I feel after 3 days....I cant even get out of bed. believe me, I've tried to get off of it. Ive just learned to deal with the fact that My body wont let me.
It messes with my equilibrium BAD if I try to ween myself off it.
He's not a coworker, she met him at a bar when she was with his brother and other friends she does work with. I saw no signs through email that they worked together. 
If he does work with her, I'm filing for divorce. That's not something to lie about right now. and she says he doesn't so I will take it at face value for now.
She gave me a #, and I am going to go try to talk to a councilor. hopefully today, as soon as possible. Once I've done that, I will be looking for these books and go from there. 
Are most of the reads recommended only available in ebook form? Or is it something i can purchase or goto the library for?


----------



## anchorwatch

There all in print. You can get them from a book store.


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## warlock07

have you confirmed that the woman you talked to was his wife?


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## endoftheroad

and, I no longer care to be there for anything she wishes to divulge to her parents. If what she says to them, and the opinions they give her, help her make the decision for what SHE wants, then so be it. 
I know this is fresh, but if i grill her every waking moment, i could see her saying **** it. I wont let it go, But i don't want to go overboard on anything right now. 
I'm calling a councilor after this, and then going to the library and bookstore to get the recommended reading. Hopefully somewhere in there i can stomach eating


----------



## keko

Your fear of losing her is more worrying then her cheating. You need to stop putting this woman on a pedestal and making her the center of your world. Otherwise you'll be clueless and helpless every time she cheats.


----------



## warlock07

endoftheroad said:


> and, I no longer care to be there for anything she wishes to divulge to her parents. If what she says to them, and the opinions they give her, help her make the decision for what SHE wants, then so be it.
> I know this is fresh, but if i grill her every waking moment, i could see her saying **** it. I wont let it go, But i don't want to go overboard on anything right now.
> I'm calling a councilor after this, and then going to the library and bookstore to get the recommended reading. Hopefully somewhere in there i can stomach eating


The only moment you got an ounce of respect from your wife was when you......



Fill the blank for me, will ya?


----------



## endoftheroad

warlock07 said:


> have you confirmed that the woman you talked to was his wife?


If it wasn't his wife, she was a good actress.
I have too much going on to give a **** if it was right now. Eventually I may come to find out it wasn't. I'm sure I'm going to eventually find out a lot i didn't know or want to know. 
Right now I just want to focus on where it all got so ****ed up. Ive come to the realization that I know enough . And she knows i know. What she chooses to do from here on out is of her own free will. Hopefully we can make it past this. 
Trust me, there is no forgiveness right now from me. She is far from forgiven. I still don't even know if i can. Sitting, thinking that AT LEAST the last year of my life, I had no idea who I was living with.
This is a lot to take in, But this is not a girlfriend, and not a new marriage. this is my life. what has been more than half of it. I have to believe it is worth trying to fix. Is that the wrong attitude to have given the circumstances?


----------



## warlock07

I am not against the intention to R but just warning against your desperation for it.


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> This is a lot to take in, But this is not a girlfriend, and not a new marriage. this is my life. what has been more than half of it. I have to believe it is worth trying to fix. Is that the wrong attitude to have given the circumstances?


No it's not the wrong attitude. Just go in with the right tools and eyes wide open. 

See if you both can take some time off work, to work on it. 

Get something in your stomach, today.


----------



## Almostrecovered

endoftheroad said:


> This is a lot to take in, But this is not a girlfriend, and not a new marriage. this is my life. what has been more than half of it. I have to believe it is worth trying to fix. Is that the wrong attitude to have given the circumstances?



no it is not an incorrect stance to take, but know that you can't do squat if your wife isn't on the same page as far as working to fix it.


----------



## endoftheroad

It has been a while since my wife really showed me any respect. Once the 2nd kid came, she pretty much kept me around, but pretty much disregarded me completely. 
I spent a lot of time alone, watching movies or gaming on the computer. I know now that I shouldn't have accepted it back then, and my trying to avoid the disrespect she has had for me for so long was a bad mistake. She pushed me away, while using my absense as a reason why she feels about me the way she does.
The whole thing is a big cluster****. We ARE going to take some time to talk about this. If things can't be worked out, then so be it. 
I don't put her on a pedestal. I'm just very confused and hurt and sad and resentful and....more feelings at once than any one person should EVER have to feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

If she stopped showing you respect then you turned into a Nice Guy, and the FIRST thing you have to read is No More Mr Nice Guy. It will literally turn your life upside down from what it is now. Read it this weekend before you do ANYTHING else.


----------



## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> But If We separate, and she has told me (not me guessing till i die) that she thinks things would be better if we weren't together anymore, I Will move on as well as i know how.


She told you that she thinks things would be better if you aren't together anymore?

Well that's not very promising.


----------



## endoftheroad

kindi said:


> She told you that she thinks things would be better if you aren't together anymore?
> 
> Well that's not very promising.


These were words said to me before I found out about the Affair. Everything has changed since and I have no clue where she stands, truthfully.
Obviously, i know if i didn't find out, it would still be going on. I know she would have continued to hide it. 100% 
But, now that i know, and she knows i know. I guess I'm hoping that, while i AM devastated, She realizes what she did, what she risked, and If she truly wants to make ours a happy and successful marriage.
I know its going to take a long time, If it ever happens. But all i can do now is talk to her, listen, speak my mind, and for both of us to decide if what we had in the past is worth trying to find again. Or if any part of our relationship was ever good enough to save at this point.

I went and grabbed the only books my library had. They are the following
Relationship Saboteurs - Randi Gunther
The Divorce Lawyers guide to staying married
Breaking the Cycle of Divorce
Too good to leave, too bad to stay
Why can't you read my mind
The Complete Marriage Counselor
Desperate Marriages
Try to see it my way - Being fair in love and marriage

I don't know what, if anything, of these will do for me. But its all they had in my branch and I felt as if i needed to read something positive

Any of these titles worth reading for my situation?
I didn't see any books on dealing with infidelity. 
The listed books were not available. I will probably have to either purchase online, as an ebook, or find somewhere else.


----------



## endoftheroad

kindi said:


> She told you that she thinks things would be better if you aren't together anymore?
> 
> Well that's not very promising.


And it was more like "I think we would both be happier if...blah blah blah. Her problem was that she could never make a decision on her own of this caliber. I never got the hint like i should have that it was way worse than i thought. and now here i am.


----------



## kindi

I wouldn't leave those books lying around where she can find them.

Remember you went from threats and ultimatums including 24 hours for her to shape up or you leave, to being ready to forgive her and putting off divorce indefinitely. Now here you are reading all these books about saving your marriage, and again you don't even know if SHE wants to save it.

That pile of books will make you seem rather weak and needy and she could easily come to the conclusion that you're all talk and no action and maybe give her the idea that she's not really risking all that much by continuing to um...dabble..


----------



## keko

I think you should start reading "no more mr nice guy" and "married men sex life" before jumping to marriage saving books.


----------



## endoftheroad

kindi said:


> I wouldn't leave those books lying around where she can find them.
> 
> Remember you went from threats and ultimatums including 24 hours for her to shape up or you leave, to being ready to forgive her and putting off divorce indefinitely. Now here you are reading all these books about saving your marriage, and again you don't even know if SHE wants to save it.
> 
> That pile of books will make you seem rather weak and needy and she could easily come to the conclusion that you're all talk and no action and maybe give her the idea that she's not really risking all that much by continuing to um...dabble..


I fully believe in her enough to know that she fears what would become of me if something like this happened again. And I have also been very clear of what i want, while letting her know that I just want the right thing to happen here. Me, Him, no one...whatever it is. I'm fairly positive that, at this point, we either try or don't. Work it out or don't. But she will not continue what she was doing any longer. If we say we're gonna at least try, and she continued or did it again while i was under this guise, she knows it would literally kill me. I don't think she wants that on her conscious. I'm sure of it.


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> I don't know what, if anything, of these will do for me. But its all they had in my branch and I felt as if i needed to read something positive
> 
> Any of these titles worth reading for my situation?
> I didn't see any books on dealing with infidelity.
> The listed books were not available. I will probably have to either purchase online, as an ebook, or find somewhere else.


Those books you found are not for you. 

The ones recommended are the most respected on the site and others. They would help you the most, they address all your and her concerns dealing with infidelity and the healing and repair of the marriage. How you got both got where you are and how to get out of it.


----------



## anchorwatch

keko said:


> I think you should start reading "no more mr nice guy" and "married men sex life" before jumping to marriage saving books.


keko, I agree he will need to read the books you suggest, but he has to deal with the infidelity first. He has a lot on his plate. it's only three days and they haven't read anything yet.


----------



## endoftheroad

keko said:


> I think you should start reading "no more mr nice guy" and "married men sex life" before jumping to marriage saving books.


Will do.
But until i get them, are any of those worth reading that you know of


----------



## endoftheroad

I really need a good book on how I should deal with the infidelity as soon as possible. I need some more insight on what I have to look forward to in the future. As well as What i should and shouldn't do if we do try to fix it.


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> Will do.
> But until i get them, are any of those worth reading that you know of


NO! None of them!


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> I really need a good book on how I should deal with the infidelity as soon as possible. I need some more insight on what I have to look forward to in the future. As well as What i should and shouldn't do if we do try to fix it.


Amazon.com: Surviving an Affair (9780800717582): Willard F. Jr. Harley, Jennifer Harley Chalmers: Books

Amazon.com: Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity (9780743225502): Shirley P. Glass, Jean Coppock Staeheli: Books


----------



## turnera

keko said:


> I think you should start reading "no more mr nice guy" and "married men sex life" before jumping to marriage saving books.


 Exactly. Like I said. And libraries do intra-library loans; ask them to get these two from another library if you don't have it.

btw, kudos to you for actually USING a library!


----------



## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> I really need a good book on how I should deal with the infidelity as soon as possible.


Surviving An Affair is the best one I know of.


----------



## endoftheroad

Thank you both


----------



## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> If we say we're gonna at least try, and she continued or did it again while i was under this guise, she knows it would literally kill me. I don't think she wants that on her conscious. I'm sure of it.


She didn't consider that it would literally kill you the first time.

What changed?


----------



## endoftheroad

kindi said:


> She didn't consider that it would literally kill you the first time.
> 
> What changed?


Nothing. You are right. I guess I will have to ask her. Cause I'll never be able to guess that answer


----------



## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> Exactly. Like I said. And libraries do intra-library loans; ask them to get these two from another library if you don't have it.
> 
> btw, kudos to you for actually USING a library!


I cant figure out my life, But i enjoy reading. Just never can find the time. busy with, well obviously too busy to see whats going on right in front of me


----------



## turnera

Consider asking your job to cut back your hours for a couple weeks, while you work this out.


----------



## endoftheroad

I haven't contributed much work wise in a while. since March probably, when I started feeling bad. Then my dad got sick and passed, and now this. 
I own the business. But the work my partner and I do is the reason I have the business and the customers I have. Luckily, him and another guy could carry me this past week, where I've worked like 15 hrs or less. 
Monday, my intentions are to suck it up and go earn my living. After all, if things do get worse or I leave in the end, I'm gonna need $$$. 
Believe me, if I could stay home and worry about my business and this problem, I would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

The two of you are going to have to spend at least 15 hours per week together, to make this work. Can the grand parents take the kids this week end, to give you guys time?


----------



## endoftheroad

Saturday is gonna be tight because of things planned already for us to get a lot of the time we need. But as long as we get a little time between now and Sunday I will make sure I have someone to watch the kids so we can talk. 
Also, like we did yesterday with her family, we are doing tonight with my mom and sister. I'm going to try my best to control how this goes because I know this is going to be a biased environment, in my favor obviously. But the fact that my wife has offered to go with me, I want to make sure things don't get out of control. The fact remains its my choices. They just need to be able to handle my requests.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

Maybe this is a dumb question ...but why must your mom and sister be involved?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Has she told you where and when she was conducting the affair?

Was OM's brother or workplace involved in any way to it?

What exactly is she doing to prove you she is being faithful and to earn your trust?


----------



## anchorwatch

Ansley said:


> Maybe this is a dumb question ...but why must your mom and sister be involved?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Immediate family, exposure 101


----------



## endoftheroad

So far she has answered questions I've asked and given me answers she knew would hurt me, but still sounded like the truth. Things I knew i would never be able to prove. Ever. 
The fact that she not only went to her parents house to tell them, and let me go. But that she feels compelled to go with me to tell my mom and sister. Knowing what they have tried to do for me this whole time to help me save my marriage. Knowing that she has to sit through that is at least a small sign that she means what she says. What could be her reason for wanting to be there. I'd love to know.
I personally and telling them, because if I don't somehow they will find out. Better to hear the facts from us right?
Should I look at that differently, and I am just being naive again?
And yes, she told me when. Not every time, but enough that I got the point. Drunk, and in his or her car. Still not sure I will ever get that out of my head. Ever. 
I was finally able to down some fast food. I just ate it. And I've never felt so sick from eating before, but I do feel a little better and I kept it down. 
I am going to have a problem trying to control me feelings and emotions when we talk. And until Sunday I know we are going to have little time to get into it very much. I have to figure out a way to keep my emotions far from my kids. They know something is wrong. I told them I haven't been feeling good. 
I just gotta do it. It's just so hard because I am not a pretender. It's hard as Hell for me to turn it off once it starts, and try to bottle it up until the time is right again. 
I guess it doesn't matter how I do it, I just have to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kindi

"Fake it til you make it".


----------



## endoftheroad

kindi said:


> "Fake it til you make it".


Yeah, My wifes Motto....


----------



## keko

If they were done in his/her car, how will you catch them the next time? They perfectly hid it for a year or two, I'm sure she wont have faking it once again.


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## turnera

Telling the family, going with you, is a big good sign that she's really in it. As hard as it is for you to face them, think how hard it is to be the one you'll be talking about.


----------



## endoftheroad

That's what I'm saying. I could not see the tables turned, and look her family and mine in the eye and apologize, and then do it again. She's said the same things to me that I said to her 10 years ago. She never wanted to hurt me, it just happened, etc etc. I meant it when I said it. Now to see if shpe stays true to her current word. Cause I already know her word otherwise isn't worth much. I have to find out who this woman is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> That's what I'm saying. I could not see the tables turned, and look her family and mine in the eye and apologize, and then do it again. She's said the same things to me that I said to her 10 years ago. She never wanted to hurt me, it just happened, etc etc. I meant it when I said it. Now to see if shpe stays true to her current word. Cause I already know her word otherwise isn't worth much. I have to find out who this woman is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Correct!


----------



## sandc

Write down a list of reasons you love your wife. Read it to yourself before you have to face your children. It may help you fake it.

Give the list to your wife. It may help her feel genuine remorse. You can hand it to her when you hand her a list of conditions for staying married.


----------



## endoftheroad

I will, thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Janie

OMG - I'm really glad your VAR didn't capture any of their 'sessions'. Talk about a mind movie!

Good luck tonight.


----------



## endoftheroad

Janie said:


> OMG - I'm really glad your VAR didn't capture any of their 'sessions'. Talk about a mind movie!
> 
> Good luck tonight.


I am positive that If i heard that I would never recover.


----------



## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> I am positive that If i heard that I would never recover.


 I remember a guy who caught his wife and OM doing it in one of their empty rent houses. Best recovery ever. He whipped out his phone, took a picture of them, sent it to her parents, grabbed all their clothes, walked out to the street and dumped them in the middle of the street, and drove home. By the time he got there, his wife was right behind him, giving up the OM and begging him to let her do whatever he wanted if he would just let her stay married to him.


----------



## sandc

turnera said:


> I remember a guy who caught his wife and OM doing it in one of their empty rent houses. Best recovery ever. He whipped out his phone, took a picture of them, sent it to her parents, grabbed all their clothes, walked out to the street and dumped them in the middle of the street, and drove home. By the time he got there, his wife was right behind him, giving up the OM and begging him to let her do whatever he wanted if he would just let her stay married to him.


Epic! Was that a thread here on TAM? I'd love to read that one.


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## turnera

Hmmm....long time ago. It might have been here. Someone else will remember. 

Not only that, he later saw the OM in a restaurant with yet ANOTHER woman, and he whipped out his phone AGAIN, and sent a picture to the OM's wife, who finally divorced him.


----------



## sandc

turnera said:


> Hmmm....long time ago. It might have been here. Someone else will remember.
> 
> Not only that, he later saw the OM in a restaurant with yet ANOTHER woman, and he whipped out his phone AGAIN, and sent a picture to the OM's wife, who finally divorced him.


:smthumbup: Just.... epic!


----------



## endoftheroad

Trip to my moms went as I expected. They told her, if I am able to forgive her, they don't see why they couldn't. They showed her the love I knew they would, while not once pointing fingers. If only my trip to her parents made me feel like I know she felt after telling mine. I know she did not expect either of them to react the way they did. 
We talked for few. I mostly talked. And now, like I'm sure will be the case on many occasions, we have to put our problems and feelings aside until we have the right moments to talk. 
I know that the first move we need to make together is going to therapy first chance we can. The sooner the better because maybe they can explain to her how she needs to work on how she communicates how she feels. As do I, since how I've done it in the past has not worked. 
As soon as I get the change I'm going to get the books I need to read ASAP. I need some damn insight on how to work on these feelings. Cause while they will never go away, Im pretty sure I am gonna need help dealing with them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Get some sleep!


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## keko

Take your time in finding a counselor and choose carefully. Quite often they blame the betrayed spouse for the affair and support the cheater in their choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

anchorwatch said:


> Immediate family, exposure 101



I know it was a dumb question for me to ask--but his mom has been though tremendous hurt and grief losing her husband...now this


----------



## Ansley

endoftheroad said:


> That's what I'm saying. I could not see the tables turned, and look her family and mine in the eye and apologize, and then do it again. She's said the same things to me* that I said to her 10 years ago*. She never wanted to hurt me, it just happened, etc etc. I meant it when I said it. Now to see if shpe stays true to her current word. Cause I already know her word otherwise isn't worth much. I have to find out who this woman is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


what went down 10 years ago?


----------



## endoftheroad

I can't bring myself to typing out again what happened 10 years ago. If you really want to know, look over the thread a little. It's there. at least I'm pretty sure I did. If it isn't there, then I will take the time to put it out there.
And, on the councillor choice...
We went a month ago. It was a woman councillor. My wife didn't like or agree with anything she said. Granted, she was ****ing this OM at the time, so if I'm gonna be honest with myself...she didn't give a **** and it didn't matter who we were talking to. 
How am I going to know, before we choose, if the councillor is going to be blaming me?
It's bad enough that I feel as if somehow what I've done in the past made what's going on now possible. But if I a am made to feel as if all the blame lies on me, I don't think I'm gonna be able to handle that. Because right now, while I know I played my role in getting to this point, I do not think I made her **** someone else.....for a year.
And, my mom is devastated. But she did not let my wife see that. Out of respect for me, knowing I am currently trying to figure out if we are even worth saving.
I'm fairly sure that if things go sour, my mom will have no problem letting her know exactly how much what she did was unforgivable to her. She is trying to be strong and supportive to me. But I know how much she hurts. I don't think I could begin to describe how she really feels about my wife right now. And she knows that right now I am trying to avoid being the angry and hateful man that I should be right now.
Im pretty sure my mother shed quite a few tears after we left though. Knowing now why I was living with her for a month, a month after my dad passed. Knowing that I've been so miserable because of how my life at home was going, and seeing that before the truth was known, I tried to do right, and was made to believe that it was all me. 
I can't wait for the day when I can goto sleep, and wake up, and not have something so bad consume every breath I take. I've done and seen a lot in my life. No pain I've ever experienced has had the effect on me that this had. I'm still not sure if I'm going to be able to stomach all this in the end. But I'm trying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I hate that I'm in love with this woman so much that I'm even still here. I hate that I can't bring myself, at this time, to just tell her **** off and go live out the rest of her miserable life with this OM. Or no one for Ll I should care.
The fact that the time invested and the kids have to be part of the equation. If they weren't, I know I wouldn't still be here right now. Then again, those facts have also made me step back and think a little more before I react. So it may have saved me from doing some things I would have regretted behind bars. 

I just don't see how the way I feel about this is ever going to get even better. I need to go buy that book today. Right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> I hate that I'm in love with this woman so much that I'm even still here. I hate that I can't bring myself, at this time, to just tell her **** off and go live out the rest of her miserable life with this OM. Or no one for Ll I should care.
> The fact that the time invested and the kids have to be part of the equation. If they weren't, I know I wouldn't still be here right now. Then again, those facts have also made me step back and think a little more before I react. So it may have saved me from doing some things I would have regretted behind bars.
> 
> I just don't see how the way I feel about this is ever going to get even better. I need to go buy that book today. Right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There was a reason the two of you married many years ago. That's why you want to try. Get Dr. Harley's books, at least you'll see what the hell went on and what you can do about it. 

Make sure you eat something.


----------



## endoftheroad

keko said:


> Take your time in finding a counselor and choose carefully. Quite often they blame the betrayed spouse for the affair and support the cheater in their choice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel like this will be a feat. Because right now I don't feel like one person has made her out to be the bad guy (outside of this site anyways) Yet 10 years ago when she pushed me to ALMOST straying, I could not have been made to feel worse for what i ALMOST did. Now, 10 years and 2 kids later, I'm supposed to believe That there is some sort of Equal responsibility for why she was unfaithful for at least a year? and possibly longer and with more than one man? She says no, But c'mon. its not even 5 days old, and she is so hard to communicate with on this. Shes had her cries and said her apologies. She makes me feel like I need to quit expecting them. She needs to understand that I wont be able to hear it enough. And the more she says it and tried to prove herself to me, the more i may believe her.
I just really need to get outta here Right now. Somewhere out there is my sanity. I'm on a mission.


----------



## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> How am I going to know, before we choose, if the councillor is going to be blaming me?


Competent therapists don't place blame and they don't take sides, or at least they try to remain neutral- although I'd imagine it's tough when one spouse is totally in the wrong.


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## anchorwatch

Question the counselor if they are pro marriage and if they are competent in infidelity. Some articles compare the after effects of infidelity to post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). 

You both need an individual counselor to work on yourselves and a marriage counselor.


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## endoftheroad

I agree. She saw a councillor for depression literally after we told her parents. I wish I was able to see a professional at that point. I'm just glad, I guess, that I haven't made an life altering choices to this point. That's gotta count for something. 
I tried to get in, but haven't even gotten the return call yet. I need someone who doesn't know me, to look me in the eyes and tell me its not the end of the world, and what I can do to face that fact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

The reason she gets to be the bad guy here is the affair. That's on her. The reason the marriage is broken is on both of you.


----------



## anchorwatch

Now is the time to see if the broken marriage can be fixed and the two of you can find what you lost


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## endoftheroad

I wasn't able to find No More Mr. Nice Guy anywhere around me. Gonna order it online i guess If B&N doesn't have it. I did purchase 3 books. One I can see is most likely worthless (since I now see it is for a woman, not a man. "When your lover is a liar"
It looked good on the shelf. Maybe I will read it and change woman to man in my head and see if that works? lol
I also bought "7 things He'll never tell you(but you need to know)
I'm gonna read this and see if its something I could have her read to better understand me.
And finally, "After the affair" She told me that the councilor she talked to recommended it, and they had it. so i got it. This will be my first read i guess. "surviving an affair" I didn't see. Gonna see if B&N has that as well. 
Are there any books I can get for her? Not because she asked, But because I want to know if there is anything she can read that will make her step back and realize how wrong she was, and what she may have to cope with trying to make it work after her infidelity?
Thanks again for ALL the support.


----------



## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> Are there any books I can get for her? Not because she asked, But because I want to know if there is anything she can read that will make her step back and realize how wrong she was, and what she may have to cope with trying to make it work after her infidelity?
> Thanks again for ALL the support.


What exactly is your wife's attitude about all of this? You don't really come right out and say it other than she was cooperative about going to the homes of your respective families to break the news of the affair.

Is she remorseful, apologetic, hysterical, pleading, somewhat detached, trying to appease you, impatient for you to "get over it", still mysterious, completely transparent and telling you everything you need to know, sharing all her accounts and passwords voluntarily, only giving you what you ask for, acting like she's still hiding anything.. etc..

??

You're the one buying all the books and suggesting counseling, what steps is she making proactively to fix this (if any)?

It matters


----------



## anchorwatch

Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass

Good point...What is she doing to fix this marriage?


----------



## anchorwatch

Why can't you down load the books to you computer, tablet or smart phone?


----------



## endoftheroad

kindi said:


> What exactly is your wife's attitude about all of this? You don't really come right out and say it other than she was cooperative about going to the homes of your respective families to break the news of the affair.
> 
> Is she remorseful, apologetic, hysterical, pleading, somewhat detached, trying to appease you, impatient for you to "get over it", still mysterious, completely transparent and telling you everything you need to know, sharing all her accounts and passwords voluntarily, only giving you what you ask for, acting like she's still hiding anything.. etc..
> 
> ??
> 
> You're the one buying all the books and suggesting counseling, what steps is she making proactively to fix this (if any)?
> 
> It matters


well, she can only handle me in bits right now. In terms of us talking. She claims to be sorry and regretfully for what she did, and I somewhat believe her. Because now that she is caught, it pops in her head of what the consequences really are or could be because of her actions.
I do a lot of the talking. 
She doesn't know the OM address. Only the city in which he lives. She is very scared of getting the brother involved, because she claims he doesn't know. I feel like its already, immediately been turned into an "us" thing. And she is trying to get me to not discuss and beat her up over it every second. And I do. Because I think we both deserve it. She does NOT want to send this guy a NC letter. Saying she doesn't get the point, that she is not going to try. I obviously am still blind, and she gives me no direction.
But, she says "I know what I did was wrong. I can't say sorry enough. But gripping me for every detail is only torturing yourself"
As of right now, at this very moment, I do not feel there is going to be much hope for us in terms of R
My thing is, she's had enough time to think about what she does and doesn't want. All she can do is point out all the things that she thinks got us here. With very little admitted fault of her part. she has it in her head that her continued showing of remorse does not matter. If we are going to try. 
I know what I want in my heart. Only because of how much of my life is invested and what I "thought" I had for a wife.
I have no idea who this ****ing woman is. I don't think she knows. 
I think she is living in a fantasy world. And doesn't understand that happiness isn't free. It doesn't fall in your lap. And you have to learn to be happy about what you have.
Times have changed. When **** got broken, they used to fix it. Not throw it away and diregard it. 
I guess my parents enstilled values to me, even if by mistake, to believe that.
I can't think of very many beifits right now, and the bad outweighs the good 10 fold in my mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Her words are of a remorseful but her actions show none. Such as her hesitations to not send NC letter, refusal to go into much details, to not involve others(OM brother), not knowing the address of her multiple year affair partner....


----------



## kindi

keko said:


> Her words are of a remorseful but her actions show none. Such as her hesitations to not send NC letter, refusal to go into much details, to not involve others(OM brother), not knowing the address of her multiple year affair partner....


Yeah, that's exactly what I was afraid of.

Not very promising at all.


----------



## Almostrecovered

there's a brief discussion but some great points about finding a MC for infidelity in this thread-

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49295-how-shop-mc-cases-infidelity.html


BUT

so far she is deep in that affair fog from what you describe (still blameshifting, no NC letter, etc) so I don't know how much it would help unless she emerges from it. Are you afraid of setting hard consequences if she doesn't write the NC letter?


----------



## anchorwatch

I'm sorry to say, her refusal to send a no contact letter, is not a good sign. She is hiding details about him too. She is thinking about his feelings. Even though she says she chose you, it was only days ago she broke it off with him. It is going to take time for her to get over him, it's not an on/off switch. He or the A itself was a drug to her, she's in withdrawal. That's what your dealing with. 

While I agree the every minute interrogation is not helping, she should give you some details you need for closure. Set a time, maybe an hour after dinners or before bed, just for discussing the A. 

You will never heal if she is not willing to give you these things. Do not negotiate this is what is needed for you to stay in the marriage.


----------



## endoftheroad

Almostrecovered said:


> there's a brief discussion but some great points about finding a MC for infidelity in this thread-
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49295-how-shop-mc-cases-infidelity.html
> 
> 
> BUT
> 
> so far she is deep in that affair fog from what you describe (still blameshifting, no NC letter, etc) so I don't know how much it would help unless she emerges from it. Are you afraid of setting hard consequences if she doesn't write the NC letter?


That my problem, I don't know what my best move would be if she doesn't do the things I tell her I need. 
I'm not afraid of being stern. I'm afraid of making the wrong choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## endoftheroad

I guess I also need her to be clear with me on what we are going to MC for. The best way to make it work, or the best way to get it over with already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Are you sure she isn't meeting up with OM somewhere or using a burner phone?


----------



## Almostrecovered

ummm....you don't "get it over with", that's what we call rugsweeping and with her cake-eating ways she will jump at the chance to "get it over with"


I'm sorry to say you basically have to state that she has to choose, "Him or me". Also state that you cannot control her actions but you can make decisions based on her actions including divorce.

If you can't pull the D trigger then I suggest you read and implement the 180 so you can have a method of detaching and help you realize that life can and will be fine without her if she makes the wrong decisions.


----------



## Almostrecovered

The Healing Heart: The 180


----------



## Jibril

*"She is very scared of getting the brother involved, because she claims he doesn't know"*. 

You won't know unless you get him involved.

"*She does NOT want to send this guy a NC letter. Saying she doesn't get the point, that she is not going to try. I obviously am still blind, and she gives me no direction*."

Very, _very_ bad sign. This should have been among the _first_ things she did. Her refusal to do that tells me she doesn't want to burn that bridge herself.

"_*But, she says "I know what I did was wrong. I can't say sorry enough*. *But gripping me for every detail is only torturing yourself*_""

Wow. That's just as bad. _It's not for her to decide what you need and don't need_. She already decided to bring a third person into your marriage without your consent or approval. She has no right to keep the details of her affair private, unless she intends to _maintain_ privacy (in other words, maintain the affair). She is either open with _everything_ she did, or she can walk out the door.

"*As of right now, at this very moment, I do not feel there is going to be much hope for us in terms of R*"

That's because she isn't giving you anything worth R'ing over.

"_*My thing is, she's had enough time to think about what she does and doesn't want. All she can do is point out all the things that she thinks got us here. With very little admitted fault of her part. she has it in her head that her continued showing of remorse does not matter. If we are going to try*_." 

The affair is all her fault. _All of it_. She can certainly point out issues about the marriage and what she thinks went wrong, but by blaming the marriage and you for the affair she is absolving herself of guilt and responsibility. *The affair was her choice. The affair was her fault*.

"_*I know what I want in my heart. Only because of how much of my life is invested and what I "thought" I had for a wife.
I have no idea who this ****ing woman is. I don't think she knows. 
I think she is living in a fantasy world. And doesn't understand that happiness isn't free. It doesn't fall in your lap. And you have to learn to be happy about what you have.
Times have changed. When **** got broken, they used to fix it. Not throw it away and diregard it. 
I guess my parents enstilled values to me, even if by mistake, to believe that.
I can't think of very many beifits right now, and the bad outweighs the good 10 fold in my mind*_."

You have idealized what marriage and recovery are supposed to be like, and it's obvious that your wife's current attitude and thoughts of divorce clash with what you believe is right. We can't make any decisions for you. The choice to R is your and your wife's. 

But divorce has been a part of society since the laws of marriage were first drafted-up. People disagree. People change. People cheat, and betray. They lie, and steal, and hurt. Divorce is a tool you can use to remove the marital tumor from your life. You've convinced yourself to R with her. But this only works if _she_ is doing the work to fix what she broke. Not you. No amount of moral values or rose-tinted nostalgia will change the fact that _your marriage will die_ if she doesn't commit to R. There will be nothing, _nothing_ you can do to repair the marriage at that point.

If she refuses to do what is necessary for R, you cannot save the marriage. You need to understand this. You must be mentally prepared to leave your wife if she doesn't want to save the marriage. That's the bottom line. Doing so will not be a "mistake." The mistake would be trying to keep a dead marriage on life support because you're too stubborn to let go.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Jibril said:


> If she refuses to do what is necessary for R, you cannot save the marriage. You need to understand this. You must be mentally prepared to leave your wife if she doesn't want to save the marriage. That's the bottom line. Doing so will not be a "mistake." The mistake would be trying to keep a dead marriage on life support because you're too stubborn to let go.


^^^ This


----------



## endoftheroad

keko said:


> Are you sure she isn't meeting up with OM somewhere or using a burner phone?


Well, I mean remember i lied and told her the extent of my surveillance was large. When she was at work and noticed I had taken over the email on her phone, and told her I have listened to conversations...she still thinks I am watching her every move. 
I could continue with the monitoring, But It will only lead to this consuming more of my life than it already does. 
If she cant make me start to believe she wants to work it out, then I am taking it as she doesn't. I've had enough of the dancing around. I want to, and am prepared to give her an ultimatum based on her unwillingness to provide me with the information that I've been told I should get. And while All the information is not the same, I can see that certain things you say I should have would be something i would want, and she should be willing to give me if she does want to save this thing


----------



## endoftheroad

I have told her that tomorrow we are going to set aside as much time as it takes to talk about this. 
What should I make the main focus of the conversation in order to get a better idea of what direction this is going to go in. 
Besides divorce, There really isnt much I feel i can threaten her with. But I AM prepared to do what I must to try and get the ball rolling. And sitting back while she tries to let things be back to some sort of normalcy in this house isn't going to work for me. I don't think I have it in me to sit back and go about my normal life as If this is not even happening. ESPECIALLY 4 days after I confront her and get her to confess.
At least, not without being given a reason to. And so far, nodda (i feel)


----------



## keko

After an affair we always suggest "trust but verify". I understand you're still in the shock of finding it out, but I'm sure you don't want to be led into a false R. You need to start verifying apart from how your wife seems remorseful or not.

Since the deeds were done in his/her car, and she works for OM brother, it wouldn't be too hard for them to get back in touch. Whether he calls through his brother, shows up at work, buys a burner phone, etc. Given the length of the affair it's near impossible for them to not get back in touch.

Once again I know how beat you are mentally, but whenever you feel better start verifying.


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> I have told her that tomorrow we are going to set aside as much time as it takes to talk about this.
> What should I make the main focus of the conversation in order to get a better idea of what direction this is going to go in.
> Besides divorce, There really isnt much I feel i can threaten her with. But I AM prepared to do what I must to try and get the ball rolling. And sitting back while she tries to let things be back to some sort of normalcy in this house isn't going to work for me. I don't think I have it in me to sit back and go about my normal life as If this is not even happening. ESPECIALLY 4 days after I confront her and get her to confess.
> At least, not without being given a reason to. And so far, nodda (i feel)


Have you looked at the links? Did you get any of the recommended books? Check your PMs


----------



## kindi

Ok, it's been 4 days since you confronted and she confessed, she isn't all that remorseful, she doesn't want to talk about it, she doesn't want to answer your questions or provide you with requested information "for your own good" and you don't want to monitor her, you'd rather just take her word for it that she won't cheat on you again because she knows you're serious about divorcing her if it happens again. She'd rather just forget it all happened and get back to your previously "normal" lives.

I don't think there's a very good strategy in place here to get this thing fixed.


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## endoftheroad

kindi said:


> Ok, it's been 4 days since you confronted and she confessed, she isn't all that remorseful, she doesn't want to talk about it, she doesn't want to answer your questions or provide you with requested information "for your own good" and you don't want to monitor her, you'd rather just take her word for it that she won't cheat on you again because she knows you're serious about divorcing her if it happens again. She'd rather just forget it all happened and get back to your previously "normal" lives.
> 
> I don't think there's a very good strategy in place here to get this thing fixed.


that's why I am still on here..
If had even one answer right now in my head I wouldn't be attached at the hip to my phone right now trying to get all of your feedback.
As someone put it earlier, this is my safe haven. 
Since my first post of this thread, you can see that I was oblivious to what was going on right in front of me.
Telling me, as people who know and have seen this sort of thing, that there are certain things I should say and do, is needed. If it wasn't for this thread and all of your help, I would not know what I know. 
While it all sucks ass, at least I am not oblivious any longer. Just really really lost and confused. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

Calm down, your emotions are on overdrive. You need a script to follow. If you can't decide from the links and recommended books what to follow. Get the MC to guide you.


----------



## endoftheroad

Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> well, she can only handle me in bits right now. In terms of us talking. She claims to be sorry and regretfully for what she did


Then she is not remorseful and she is settling for you. Probably just so she doesn't lose the financial security you provide.



endoftheroad said:


> She is very scared of getting the brother involved, because she claims he doesn't know.


If she WERE remorseful, she would care more about how YOU feel than how the BROTHER feels. She is still prideful and protecting herself over you. (probably because she has no fear you will leave)



endoftheroad said:


> I feel like its already, immediately been turned into an "us" thing. And she is trying to get me to not discuss and beat her up over it every second. And I do. Because I think we both deserve it.


Not remorseful.



endoftheroad said:


> She does NOT want to send this guy a NC letter. Saying she doesn't get the point, that she is not going to try.


Now THIS? THIS is the #1 big no-no and IMO is proof positive that she WILL CHEAT ON YOU AGAIN.

This needs to be your hill to die on, end. If she won't write him a NC letter, don't say another word to her, go straight to your lawyer, write him a check, and start the divorce proceedings. 

I'm serious. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of cases like yours. The WSs who will not write the letter ALWAYS CHEAT AGAIN. Always.


----------



## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> Well, I mean remember i lied and told her the extent of my surveillance was large. When she was at work and noticed I had taken over the email on her phone, and told her I have listened to conversations...she still thinks I am watching her every move.


If she has a burner phone, you are NOT monitoring that, are you? That's the whole point of a burner phone.


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## turnera

If I were you, I would tell her tomorrow "This is what I need - here's the list. If you aren't willing to do these things for me to heal and TRY to trust you again, I will help you pack your stuff because I will not stay married to you without it, and I am not leaving my kids."

The list needs to include:
no contact letter
both of you telling OM's brother (he's pretty much the OM's 'wife' in this case, because it will be him who has to be aware and watch for further signs of cheating)
finding the MC and making the first appointment
taking off passwords to her phone and computer or giving them to you
handing over her phone any time you ask
answering any questions you have for at least the first month, any time you ask, without balking or backtalking
meeting you weekly for an hour to discuss the marriage
agreeing to spend 15 hours a week with you to reinvigorate the marriage


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## endoftheroad

I agree fully. I was more concerned about making the wrong choice. But if her choice cannot be made, then I guess I will make it for us after we have our talk. Somethings gotta give here, and it shouldnt be me!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Start a new thread in the CWI forum or have this thread moved there


----------



## warlock07

endoftheroad said:


> well, she can only handle me in bits right now. In terms of us talking. She claims to be sorry and regretfully for what she did, and I somewhat believe her. Because now that she is caught, it pops in her head of what the consequences really are or could be because of her actions.
> I do a lot of the talking.
> She doesn't know the OM address. Only the city in which he lives. She is very scared of getting the brother involved, because she claims he doesn't know. I feel like its already, immediately been turned into an "us" thing. And she is trying to get me to not discuss and beat her up over it every second. And I do. Because I think we both deserve it. She does NOT want to send this guy a NC letter. Saying she doesn't get the point, that she is not going to try. I obviously am still blind, and she gives me no direction.
> But, she says "I know what I did was wrong. I can't say sorry enough. But gripping me for every detail is only torturing yourself"
> As of right now, at this very moment, I do not feel there is going to be much hope for us in terms of R
> My thing is, she's had enough time to think about what she does and doesn't want. All she can do is point out all the things that she thinks got us here. With very little admitted fault of her part. she has it in her head that her continued showing of remorse does not matter. If we are going to try.
> I know what I want in my heart. Only because of how much of my life is invested and what I "thought" I had for a wife.
> I have no idea who this ****ing woman is. I don't think she knows.
> I think she is living in a fantasy world. And doesn't understand that happiness isn't free. It doesn't fall in your lap. And you have to learn to be happy about what you have.
> Times have changed. When **** got broken, they used to fix it. Not throw it away and diregard it.
> I guess my parents enstilled values to me, even if by mistake, to believe that.
> I can't think of very many beifits right now, and the bad outweighs the good 10 fold in my mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is bull****ting you once you gave up the source. She is more loyal to the OM and she now knows you have nothing now!! You forgave this woman too easily, too early and you have little to no power in the relationship. You should be prepared to divorce her unless she gives you a reason not to. Go and post in the CWI section


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## Shaggy

So first a couple of rules for dealing with your WW

1. Do not threaten her - meaning do not say "I need you to give me OM details, or I will ..."

there is only one threat on the table here and it is that you will divorce and expose the affair wide an far. 

Everything else that you do, you do not as part of a threat but unannounced and because you choose to.

2. Trust nothing she says until you verify it yourself.

--

Now for dealing with the OM. It's pretty clear she's protecting him. It's very common for cheaters to fear blow back to their OM and they will do anything they can to protect them. This shows an ongoing loyalty to him and it shows that given time she hopes to possibly reconnect with him after the storm is over. She fears hurting him now because it will cause him to hate her.

So what do you do with this fact? Well you expose the OM of course. You make her fear come true, you create blow back, and hopefully he throws her right under the bus. 

So talk to the brother. Do not warn your wife that you are doing this. This shows her that you neither need her permission, nor do your require her advice. You are in charge of you.

Ask the brother about his brother, ask him about if he's married, and ask him finally did he know about the affair? Get contact info, or at least a name.

Do not tell you wife you did this, even after the fact. Telling her is akin to reporting to her and it says you need her approval. You don't.

Find the OM, find the OMW and tell her what has been going on. 

Once again do not warn your wife you might do this, and do not inform her after you have done it.

Wait. Wait for your wife to confront you. This will reveal that her and OM are very much still in contact.

She will be angry. Frankly who cares. You're way more angry about her cheating, so her anger is like a candle compared to the sun.

When she tries to yell, attack etc. Just walk away. Tell her when she's ready to really talk about things you'll listen, but for now she's too emotional to do that so you are giving her space.

Go dark for a day or two. If she responds with any kind of anger, tell her to come back when she's ready to actually talk. rinse, repeat.

Yes this is hard. It's also a very very effective way of ending the affair and burning through the lies, false remorse, and more lies.

It also establishes you as someone who should not be messed with. It shows you are prepared and capable of doing what needs to be done and will not shy away from the hard stuff.

It makes you all that more attractive when the dust settles, and it makes a true R much more likely.


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## warlock07

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/45612-wife-12-yrs-cheater-2-kids-need-help.html

Read this thread. Use this as a template.


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## warlock07

The guy did not hold back at all in his R. His wife exactly knew what he wanted.The worst thing you can do now is to appear weak and a coward to your wife. If she smells any hint of weakness, she will walk all over you. The problems that led to the affair will start again.


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## Entropy3000

endoftheroad said:


> well, she can only handle me in bits right now. In terms of us talking. She claims to be sorry and regretfully for what she did, and I somewhat believe her. Because now that she is caught, it pops in her head of what the consequences really are or could be because of her actions.
> I do a lot of the talking.
> She doesn't know the OM address. Only the city in which he lives. She is very scared of getting the brother involved, because she claims he doesn't know. I feel like its already, immediately been turned into an "us" thing. And she is trying to get me to not discuss and beat her up over it every second. And I do. Because I think we both deserve it. She does NOT want to send this guy a NC letter. Saying she doesn't get the point, that she is not going to try. I obviously am still blind, and she gives me no direction.
> But, she says "I know what I did was wrong. I can't say sorry enough. But gripping me for every detail is only torturing yourself"
> As of right now, at this very moment, I do not feel there is going to be much hope for us in terms of R
> My thing is, she's had enough time to think about what she does and doesn't want. All she can do is point out all the things that she thinks got us here. With very little admitted fault of her part. she has it in her head that her continued showing of remorse does not matter. If we are going to try.
> I know what I want in my heart. Only because of how much of my life is invested and what I "thought" I had for a wife.
> I have no idea who this ****ing woman is. I don't think she knows.
> I think she is living in a fantasy world. And doesn't understand that happiness isn't free. It doesn't fall in your lap. And you have to learn to be happy about what you have.
> Times have changed. When **** got broken, they used to fix it. Not throw it away and diregard it.
> I guess my parents enstilled values to me, even if by mistake, to believe that.
> I can't think of very many beifits right now, and the bad outweighs the good 10 fold in my mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why does her story sound like a total fabrication to me?

It is highly likely she has been to OMs house to have sex or at least knows where he lives. She knows his name and has his phone numbers. He can be found just from his name on the internet. But that said, my money is on her coworker. There may or may not be a brother of his she likes but the coworker is likely the OM. 

She made up the story about this borther being the other man to distract you from insisting she quit her job. She is protecting her OM and she has not likely stopped the affair.

You are very much in a hurry to stop surveilance. Bad idea. If anything you need to step it up because in all likelihood she is still in the affair. If not she will like all those in an affair backslide. She must go through withdrawal. You absolutely must ensure this is true.


----------



## aug

The affair was ended by force by you. She has been with the OM for a long time. She's still in love with the OM, and she's not ready to let him go.

Watch her actions. Her actions showed that she's not truly remorseful.

So, what are your choices?

Can you learn to be indifferent? Can you learn to detach?

Are you able to let her go?

Will the 180 work for you? Will it help you think clearer? Do you want to give it a try?


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## endoftheroad

Last night we had a community function which we knew we had to go to. I did well in pretending and setting my feelings to the side for an evening. Against my better judgement, I drank. A lot. And I'm not a big drinker. I got drunk, played with peoples kids, and mine. The beers helped a lot. I was able to talk to people, and I was able to be myself for an evening. I enjoyed myself. Even with her there, knowing what I know. I just blocked it out and tried to have a good time. I love children, so playing with mine and the neighbors kids while talking to other adults made it a nice evening for me. Something I really didn't think I was going to be able to do.
Now its the next day, and when I open my eyes I am immediately hit with the reallity of what I must do today. And I know I have to follow through.
I'm not sure the outcome. But I can only promise myself to ask the questions, and prepare myself to let her know that D will be our next option if I don't hear what I want. What I need to hear in order to feel there really is any chance. 
Right now I don't see how it could work, and R seems like it is not possible.
I AM prepared to not only tell her, at this point, what she MUST do. If she can't, or I don't feel she is as remorseful as she should be, I WILL let her know, with confidence in what I say, that it is not acceptable. And we will them move forward with a D.
I know I love her. And part of me would still do anything for this ****. But the more I read here on what her actions to this point probably mean, it makes it much easier for me to day the hard things, and stick to my guns. 
Right now, she has not given me one reason, or shown to be remorsful enough, to make me believe this has q chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Good luck! And remember, you're moving forward in learning and life; if she wants you, she can run to catch up; but you're not staying stuck.


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## endoftheroad

Last night we had a community function which we knew we had to go to. I did well in pretending and setting my feelings to the side for an evening. Against my better judgement, I drank. A lot. And I'm not a big drinker. I got drunk, played with peoples kids, and mine. The beers helped a lot. I was able to talk to people, and I was able to be myself for an evening. I enjoyed myself. Even with her there, knowing what I know. I just blocked it out and tried to have a good time. I love children, so playing with mine and the neighbors kids while talking to other adults made it a nice evening for me. Something I really didn't think I was going to be able to do.
Now its the next day, and when I open my eyes I am immediately hit with the reallity of what I must do today. And I know I have to follow through.
I'm not sure the outcome. But I can only promise myself to ask the questions, and prepare myself to let her know that D will be our next option if I don't hear what I want. What I need to hear in order to feel there really is any chance. 
Right now I don't see how it could work, and R seems like it is not possible.
I AM prepared to not only tell her, at this point, what she MUST do. If she can't, or I don't feel she is as remorseful as she should be, I WILL let her know, with confidence in what I say, that it is not acceptable. And we will them move forward with a D.
I know I love her. And part of me would still do anything for this ****. But the more I read here on what her actions to this point probably mean, it makes it much easier for me to say the hard things, and stick to my guns. 
Right now, she has not given me one reason, or shown to be remorsful enough, to make me believe this has chance. I guess now I just have to maintain until the kids are gone and we can sit down and talk.

I will be back later and let you know how our talk goes. 
And thanks again to all of you who have taken time out of your life to read this thread, and offer the advice and Outlook you have. Without you all, I wouldn't be where I am with this. What you all say is from your knowledge and experience. Neither of which I have much clue about in this matter. But you all have helped me face the realization of my situation. And the things I MUST do to, with some comfort knowing what signs to look for to help me better understand the situation.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ansley

I will get roasted for this but if you truly want to recover you cant "tell" her what you will and wont have. re-hashing keeps the wound open. find a good MC. I mean a good one. The one I went to 12 years ago said I was partially to blame for my husband cheating. Sucked. 

At this point you need to step up the snooping and get to the bottom of who the OM really is. I dont buy he is a coworkers, brothers, friend...whatever...no way.

Stay extra attentive and involved with the kids. Unless you guys live in Windsor castle and have 24/7 nannies...the kids know something is up.


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## anchorwatch

What ever happens you will be better for it. Good luck.


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## endoftheroad

anchorwatch said:


> What ever happens you will be better for it. Good luck.


That is really what I am hoping to accomplish the most. Right now I have nothing to feel better about. So need that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Nothing to feel better about? You can look yourself in the mirror and be proud of who you see. That's huge.


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## endoftheroad

While I'm feeling more confident, my wife has stepped on me for a long time. She has turned my self esteem into mud. Once I can make myself realize that her opinion of me doesn't matter in the end with regards to who I am and what I can offer someone, then I will be fine I'm sure. 
But right now, and for a long time, what she made me feel like I had to offer someone has been clouded by what I couldn't give HER. I'm realizing now that it isn't on me. And that someday, somewhere, somehow I know I will find someone who will love and appreciate me for who I am, not for who they think I should be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Is she working in a crowded area?

Is she ever working off-site?

Do you know anyone at her work?


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## turnera

Are you seeing a therapist?


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## Entropy3000

After you are sure the affair is done and has gone through withdrawal ... weeks or months down the road ... I suggest you do His Needs Her Needs wth her. Especially do the boundary setting. You do indeed need to tell her where your boudnaries are as it pertains to her relationship with other men.

Realize that there will be backsliding as I mentioned before. Sooo. It she is verifiably three weeks into withdrawal and has contact with the OM the clock starts over. If she is working with the other man there will be no recovery. You need to know who the otherman is and the extent of the affair. Not just trickle truth. 

Do not rug sweep. As wonderful as it would be to move forward and put this behind you, you will need to deal with this affair before you can establish your new marriage. The marriage that you had is now gone. You will bith need to decide what this new marriage will be. But you cannot forgive someone if you do not kno what you are forgiving them for.

You have to know who the OM is. And verify it. If he is married you need to let their spouse / GF know about the affair. If the OM is a coworker then she will have to change jobs immediately.


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## endoftheroad

She works for a large corporation. Around many people. Some know me because, remember, I used to work there too. She has had 1 or two work trips in the past. And has worked for this company for more than 15 years. Trips where, she claimed, were out of town and work related. I'll ask, but will I truely ever know?
I just dropped kids to my moms. And am smoking before I go in and do this.
Wish me luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Not for the trips but if any of them of have any info regarding the affair(s) to help you out with. Also try to ask female friends, as any male is a possible OM plus most females like to keep dirty secrets about other females.


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## Ansley

She isn't done with OM----not by a long shot
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Well, she can have him. I am done with her. In our conversation, she gave me too much proof that there was just no shot at R. We are done. No D tomorrow, but as soon as I am capable of giving my kids a 2nd home. 
I told her what I needed. She just isn't willing. And I'm not going to push her. It's the first time that she's basically said "I just don't see it working" and that's enough for me, with the cooperation to now, to realize she's right. I need to step back and collect myself. This isn't what I wanted. Even given what she did. 
But I am not blind to what it is anymore, and what its been the whole time. Her willingness to make me happy has never been there. Especially in the last 5 years. And I can never make her understand that my happiness, and how I treated her, was always based on 2 simple things. **** me like you love me, and respect me more than you do. She is not capable, and I'm not going to be the fall guy for her choices any more.
Now I just have to figure out the best way to move on. 
I hate feeling so helpless in regards to being happy. And obviously being happy with what I thought I had is no longer good enough...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Sorry End, at least you know where you stand. For the first time in a long time you'll be headed toward your happiness, and it won't be dependent on her. Time for the 180


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## turnera

First thing to do is stop giving her any of your money. Start putting it in a separate account and pay ONLY for what benefits the kids. Let her start figuring out how to pay for everything on her salary.


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## aug

Good for you. Now you know she doesnt care. It is time to move on.


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## keko

Ansley said:


> She isn't done with OM----not by a long shot
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My thoughts as well. It's likely OP only uncovered one OM but others are still unknown.


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> Well, she can have him. I am done with her. In our conversation, she gave me too much proof that there was just no shot at R. We are done. No D tomorrow, but as soon as I am capable of giving my kids a 2nd home.
> I told her what I needed. She just isn't willing. And I'm not going to push her. It's the first time that she's basically said "I just don't see it working" and that's enough for me, with the cooperation to now, to realize she's right. I need to step back and collect myself. This isn't what I wanted. Even given what she did.
> But I am not blind to what it is anymore, and what its been the whole time. Her willingness to make me happy has never been there. Especially in the last 5 years. And I can never make her understand that my happiness, and how I treated her, was always based on 2 simple things. **** me like you love me, and respect me more than you do. She is not capable, and I'm not going to be the fall guy for her choices any more.
> Now I just have to figure out the best way to move on.
> I hate feeling so helpless in regards to being happy. And obviously being happy with what I thought I had is no longer good enough...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im happy you got the final closure. It's going to hurt for a while but at the end getting rid of her will be the biggest gift you can imagine. You'll no longer be living a lie but have a chance to find someone who appreciates you more then your stbxwife ever did.

Consult different lawyers to learn what to expect in regards to alimony/child support/child custody and never tell your wife about what you've learned and planning to do. Do your best to get the most in the initial hearings as it's very hard to change it later on. Good luck.


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## Ansley

This is new upset. Give it a few days or weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Ya give it a few weeks and when your WW ...I mean STBXW see you are serious and starts to see the new endoftheroad she may see what she is about to lose, then you will settle for this and then she will go back to her old ways.

So my point is BEWARE this emotional roller coaster is coming and she will be nice, she will be mean, she will be nice, she will be mean. This confusion is her not know what she wants, especially as the affair starts to get stressed you will see the "nice day" then her and her boyfriend will patch things up and then the "mean day" comes.

Now, after the dicision for D has been made its time to do a hard 180, this will protect you from this *new* emotional torture that she is bringing your way.


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## Shaggy

You've found out why exposing the OM is important as soon as possible. While you're wife did reel from your confrontation, after she regained her footing she realized that there wasn't anything really causing grief for her affair or OM. 

In other words, once the dust of confrontation happened, her OM and the affair didn't suffer in any way. The OM didn't throw her under the bus, and he had no reason not to continue with her. 

Essentially the OM and affair remained available options to her.

I still encourage finding the OM and exposing him to his wife/gf. Let him feel the grief too, and hopefully throw her under the bus.


----------



## endoftheroad

Why do I always seem to jump the gun on ****! 
I was going to leave today, and stay away till tuesday. Then she leave and stay at her parents so I could stay with the kids here and spend the night Tue and wed ....
I started feeling that if I left, at all, that she could somehow use it against me. 
I told her I'm not leaving the house at all until i seek legal advice to make sure she can not use it against me.
Was that a bad move telling her?
As of right now I plan on my attention going to my kids 100%
But if I am here, then I'm gonna HAVE to look at her at some point. Since I am not leaving she is not telling the kids tonight. 
1st, would I be ok leaving and staying here only a couple days a week? As long as I know she can't use it against me, I'm good with that. 
Help quick!
Man, my posts could be used in the future to let people know in my situation the things NOT to do, that's for sure
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Do not leave the house. If she wants out of the marriage she can leave.


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## endoftheroad

So how am I to deal with it, while still having no choice of looking at her mug right now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> I told her I'm not leaving the house at all until i seek legal advice to make sure she can not use it against me.
> Was that a bad move telling her?


EXACTLY the right thing to do. NEVER EVER EVER leave your house. SHE wants out, let HER leave.


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## endoftheroad

At this point, I want to make sure the moves I make are thought out better than they have been in the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> So how am I to deal with it, while still having no choice of looking at her mug right now?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Consider yourself a prisoner of war who has no choice but to endure. People have survived MUCH worse things than living in a house with a cheater.


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## keko

*Do not move out of the house.*


----------



## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> EXACTLY the right thing to do. NEVER EVER EVER leave your house. SHE wants out, let HER leave.


But I want out of the marriage too. She makes twice what I do on paper. Easily. Not sure how much that matters. And again, I am a business owner. So My money goes through my business before she sees anything from me. What I put in "our" checking account has always, in reallity, been up to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Ask her to move out. Say you need to clear your head a bit and while she's away contact an attorney. Also saying "leaving the house can be used against me" was a very bad idea, don't say similar things again.


----------



## keko

endoftheroad said:


> But I want out of the marriage too. She makes twice what I do on paper. Easily. Not sure how much that matters. And again, I am a business owner. So My money goes through my business before she sees anything from me. What I put in "our" checking account has always, in reallity, been up to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She'll pay you alimony and child support while you and the kids stay in the house. Kindly ask/pressure her to move out.


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## endoftheroad

Is us alternating every few nights who stays at this house with our children really something that could somehow be used against me if it is agreed to verbally? I mean, I know what her word is worth. I just couldn't see her using them against me. Ever. But right now legallity is my concern in this situation
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Q: What is 180 and how does it work? Submitted by Making It
A: 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person.

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> Is us alternating every few nights who stays at this house with our children really something that could somehow be used against me if it is agreed to verbally? I mean, I know what her word is worth. I just couldn't see her using them against me. Ever. But right now legallity is my concern in this situation
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unless it is a court ordered agreement/written agreement then no. It is a very stupid idea for a husband/father when entering divorce phase.


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## anchorwatch

You need to stay in the house. You need to stop avoiding conflict with her, that's what got you where you are. Time to man up and not give a **** about her. Turn the tables and show her your not going to fold, just because she gives you grief. You need to destabilize this relationship and you do that by not running away. Do the 180


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## keko

Keep the VAR on yourself 24/7, with fresh batteries. I'm sure she's been advised to call the cops falsely to get you out of the house.


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## endoftheroad

Ok, what I thought. Needed to know before we had an opportunity to talk again. 
This is no longer my home, and I don't want to be here. But right now the relationship I have with my little ones from this very second is the only thing I care about. I will stay and do whatever I must to have that time with them. 
Who knows (and it won't change my mind from here) but maybe she sees more of who I am and starts to regret her choice. But I doubt it. 
She is angry that I'm not willing to take her on her word. Like "I thought we aren't going to do this, but ok" in a somewhat sarcastic tone. Angry that I am seeking the lawyer to make sure I am not going to be looked at by the courts as a bad father to my kids.
Oh well, guess I will just ignore her unless i absolutely can't and figure out what my next, best move will be.
Thanks so much for the quick responses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

How is it no longer your home?


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## anchorwatch

Yes, remember this is for your children too. You don't need the OM to be their Dad.

Read "Divorce Busters" there you will find things to help your situation.


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## endoftheroad

It's just how I feel. I know I shouldn't feel that way, but when your somewhere your not wanted for so long...its hard to call that home. But again, right now my focus is me legally, and my kids emotionally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> But I want out of the marriage too. She makes twice what I do on paper. Easily. Not sure how much that matters. And again, I am a business owner. So My money goes through my business before she sees anything from me. What I put in "our" checking account has always, in reallity, been up to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 This isn't about money. It's about psychology. SHE is the aggressor here, you are the victim, and if you move out, you are capitulating and it will forever change the dynamics of how you two interact - whether your marriage survives or not. Even if you divorce, you have to deal with her for the kids. If you don't stand up and look like a real man (and not move out with your tail between your legs), she will lose ALL RESPECT for you. Whether she knows it or not.


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> It's just how I feel. I know I shouldn't feel that way, but when your somewhere your not wanted for so long...its hard to call that home. But again, right now my focus is me legally, and my kids emotionally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Forget your feelings for a while. You need to go by logic until its over.

Talk to a lawyer ASAP and have your wife served first. Tell your lawyer to get you exclusive use of marital home, alimony and child support temporarily.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> This is no longer my home, and I don't want to be here.


You're being a romantic and there is NO ROOM for romanticism when kids are involved. She fired you as her husband so right now all you care about is giving your kids stability IN THEIR HOME.



endoftheroad said:


> She is angry that I'm not willing to take her on her word. Like "I thought we aren't going to do this, but ok" in a somewhat sarcastic tone.


Again, SHE FIRED YOU. She is no longer your friend. You no longer owe her any niceness and you sure as hell can no longer trust what she says. 

And she is used to manipulating you by being passive aggressive ('but ok' - puhleaze, how obviously passive aggressive can you get?) because that is WHAT ALWAYS WORKED ON YOU. Surprise her. Show her you found your balls finally, and STOP TALKING TO HER. Any time she brings up the future "talk to my lawyer."

And have some fun with living in the same house with her. She wants to be a *****? Fine. Show her how hard it's going to be to be a full-time mother on her own; on 'her' time, disappear; stop doing ANYTHING for her. She has a flat? Call AAA.


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## anchorwatch

And don't move out of your bed. She went outside of the marriage, she can sleep on the couch. 

You told her what you need. She refuses, now show her the consequences. That's what this was about. She called you, like it was a bluff. Show her for the first time it's not.


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## endoftheroad

Removing my wife from the house would not provide any stabilty for my kids right now. I hate her right now, but I'm also not a man who would hurt my kids if I don't have to. And I know me making her leave tonight...I couldn't explain anything to them right now. As far as I am concerned, if I am in this house they need to remain oblivious to our decision until the legality issues are worked out.
Agree or disagree?
But, I will sleep in my own bed. **** a couch. She's used to sleeping with the little one anyways. Now she just can't do it in my bed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

We are not telling you to kick her out of the house, end. We're telling you to take back the power you have. We're telling you that YOU DON'T LEAVE. You seem precariously close to leaving. And we're trying to prevent that.


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## anchorwatch

Read the 180 method I posted a few post back. Live that way from here on out. It will protect your emotions and prepare you to move on, if that's what happens. It will also let her see that you don't need her and are prepared to move on with life, without her.


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## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> We are not telling you to kick her out of the house, end. We're telling you to take back the power you have. We're telling you that YOU DON'T LEAVE. You seem precariously close to leaving. And we're trying to prevent that.


That's the kind of **** I need to hear. Makes me feel better about the decisions I am making. I want to do what's best for me right now. And a lot of what that is right now, I don't know. But I want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> Removing my wife from the house would not provide any stabilty for my kids right now. I hate her right now, but I'm also not a man who would hurt my kids if I don't have to. And I know me making her leave tonight...I couldn't explain anything to them right now. As far as I am concerned, if I am in this house they need to remain oblivious to our decision until the legality issues are worked out.
> Agree or disagree?
> But, I will sleep in my own bed. **** a couch. She's used to sleeping with the little one anyways. Now she just can't do it in my bed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude, get rid of that victim mentality. Its time to be pro-active and go on offense. Tell your kids there are some adult problems between both of you but you love them no matter what then distract them with games/homework/hobbies whatever.


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## kindi

As far as keeping the kids in the dark, probably not a good idea. The two of you need to sit down with them and explain to them that you're getting a divorce, but with plenty of reassurances that they're going to be ok, and both of you love them. 

I'd stay in the house as suggested, but not in the same room as her, one of you need to set up residence elsewhere in the house, until such time as one of you leaves, and as you suggest, it's probably going to be you since she's the one who is the primary caregiver to the kids, but protect yourself legally before you even consider moving out. 

The situation where each parent takes turns with the kids and stays in the marital home a few nights per week is called "nesting" or something like that. It doesn't work well in most cases but you can certainly give it a shot. It requires a fair amount of cooperation and civility between the two soon to be ex spouses.


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## endoftheroad

Don't want to nest. Would love to know the best, most non hurtfull way to break it to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

endoftheroad said:


> Why do I always seem to jump the gun on ****!
> I was going to leave today, and stay away till tuesday. Then she leave and stay at her parents so I could stay with the kids here and spend the night Tue and wed ....
> I started feeling that if I left, at all, that she could somehow use it against me.
> I told her I'm not leaving the house at all until i seek legal advice to make sure she can not use it against me.
> *Was that a bad move telling her?*
> As of right now I plan on my attention going to my kids 100%
> But if I am here, then I'm gonna HAVE to look at her at some point. Since I am not leaving she is not telling the kids tonight.
> 1st, would I be ok leaving and staying here only a couple days a week? As long as I know she can't use it against me, I'm good with that.
> Help quick!
> Man, my posts could be used in the future to let people know in my situation the things NOT to do, that's for sure
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. Yes it was. In the future, keep your strategy and reasons to yourself. The less she knows what you're going to do, the better. It's simple but hard to do.


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## Jibril

endoftheroad said:


> Don't want to nest. Would love to know the best, most non hurtfull way to break it to them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The truth. If you don't tell them about the infidelity, they will figure it out when they see mom with a new "daddy" sooner or later.

I'm copying a quote I read in cdm9999's thread on the same subject, with the gender switched around:

"Listen, daddy loves you all and mommy so much but daddy can't be together with mommy anymore because mommy wants a new daddy for herself instead of me. It will be sad and hard for you but know that I love you all. I want mommy just for us but its not that easy. I will always be here for you, ok?"


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## endoftheroad

Jibril said:


> The truth. If you don't tell them about the infidelity, they will figure it out when they see mom with a new "daddy" sooner or later.
> 
> I'm copying a quote I read in cdm9999's thread on the same subject, with the gender switched around:
> 
> "Listen, daddy loves you all and mommy so much but daddy can't be together with mommy anymore because mommy wants a new daddy for herself instead of me. It will be sad and hard for you but know that I love you all. I want mommy just for us but its not that easy. I will always be here for you, ok?"


I can see feeling ok saying something along those lines.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wlb551

It sounds to me like she is holding some amount of resentment for something. Not knowing your life for the last 20 years, I can't guess what that is regarding. When people hold resentment it can fester and create a hostile lash-out reaction to almost anything -- even things unrelated. I know because I have been there.

The new underwear might be a clue to an affair but could also be her trying to deal with her own issue with self-esteem or maybe a little depression. 

_You_ seem to be on here seeking answers, but have you tried together through the years through therapy or other things? 

I guess it comes down to either seeing if she is open to seeking help together or getting down to both of you moving on. Years of unhappiness between parents, can be felt and carried by kids even if they don't actively see you fight. 

Best of luck.


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## endoftheroad

I do have resent. I hold resent for how our marriage has went. I know there what WE did got us here, but I know that at the end of the day, I was still willing to forgive her. I was willing to try and understand why she did what she did. But in the end, she didn't care enough to give me what I needed to try and begin the healing process and begin a R. She instead refused to give me what I needed. When I asked that she write the NC letter, she wouldn't. In the end, its just another thing she was willing to do for me that she shouldn't have looked at as being about anything but me. And her unwillingness to give me the things I asked for is THE reason we are where we are today. In this situation, and the whole relationship. 
When I told her yesterday that one of us may be leaving the house today. And its probably going to be her...the she immediately said " well I'm taking the kids with me"
This did not help her, or the rest of our conversation. 
I told her when I woke up, that at this point I will try and not repeat anything I've already said. And I want to remain stern on that. And that right now, as bad as I wish I could tell the kids how things really are, I know its wrong. And all I want to do is make sure both kids feel nothing but love from both parents.
What I don't want is my kids to think daddy had a choice about leaving. But since there is no way to relay this to them in a non hurtful way, I need to face the fact that in the end right now this needs to be as easy and comfortable a transition for them as we can possibly make it.
I'm not the unfaithful liar. My biggest fear is that my children never understand why daddy moved out. I wish there was a way to explain it to them, even watered down, that made them understand. And I'm afraid The wife is all for giving them the impression that mommy and daddy have been unhappy for a while. 
Which is fine I guess, but NOT the reason why daddy is moving out and we are getting a divorce.
Right now, the opinion of my children in regards to how they feel about our D is the only thing I care about. 
My wife is no longer worth caring about. And all I want is to see her, at some point, realize this was her fault and her choice. I didn't put someone **** in her for over a year and make her lie to me. That's on her, and I no longer choose to feel responsible that she made that choice. Even though she believes it was my fault. 
I listened to the conversation I recorded from when she told her parents. What I heard made me realize that, while her parents may have said what she did wasn't right, they spent 45 minutes trying to blameshift and make it sound as if how I treated their daughter was the cause of her A. 
The respect I had for her family members is no longer there. Which sucks cause I considered them my family. But the reality is she is their daughter. And my feelings are **** compared to hers. My feelings will never matter to them. And their little innocent girl can still do no wrong. The only reason they are even civil is because of their grandchildren. I just hope at some point they realize that what their daughter did is why things go the way they will, and NOT because of the problems we had before this all came to light. I refuse to be made to feel as if I am responsible for what she did. 
Right now I'm gonna try to focus on what I MUST do today, which is put this aside enough to be able to do the work I need to get done today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

Maybe someday she will understand, but unfortunately it doesn't always happen.

So, at this point you have to worry about you and your kids. Start detaching from her and implement the 180.


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## tryingtobebetter

Endoftheroad

I really feel for you. I have not had your experience so can only try to imagine how you must feel.

Can I just say one thing as someone who was abandoned by my parents at the age of ten (sent me to live with relatives, home never really restored after that etc). I can see that you love your children very much. I can see also that your wife has behaved extremely badly.

Please both of you put the children's welfare above everything else. I am not in a position to say for sure what that means but at the very least say again and again to your wife that they must come first.

Everything has happened so fast that I am sure nobody has had time to look at matters calmly. What worries me is that your children could so very easily be damaged for life (as I am) by what you and your wife do now.

I am sure your wife regards herself as loving your children as well. Until very recently you loved her dearly. If both of you stood back and thought about the situation calmly, I am still wondering whether with time she might come to her senses and see that their happiness means she should ditch the OM and try to rebuild her marriage with you.

You are all in my prayers.


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## turnera

So you are moving out?


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## endoftheroad

Thanks.
On a side note..I made an appointment with a lawyer this morning. go see him in a couple hours. My intentions are to file an At Fault Divorce and have her served. Since I know nothing about how to handle any of this, I am very uneasy. But I'm sure once I talk to him my mind will be more at ease. So just waiting for that to happen. Then i intend to goto work, cause GDI i need to get something done!


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## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> So you are moving out?


Thats my intention. Do i really have a choice? I mean, Im about to serve her D papers soon here. Could i really somehow stay here, and wait till i can be able to get on my own 2 feet?
How would that work?


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## turnera

How would it work? You act like an adult and endure for the sake of your kids. Good grief. What is it with people of this generation? Oh, I can't do THAT, that would make me uncomfortable, she might be mad at me, NO one can survive THAT....


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> Thats my intention. Do i really have a choice? I mean, Im about to serve her D papers soon here. Could i really somehow stay here, and wait till i can be able to get on my own 2 feet?
> How would that work?


You bite the bullet, plug your your ears and endure it until it is court ordered. Also have her served early in the day at work, she'll cool off before coming home.

You're keeping the VAR on yourself at all times correct?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

i Will keep the VAR on me. Or use my phone.
But, what does my generation have to do with not knowing the best way to handle a situation? Sorry If I'm a little scared that I am on here asking what I should do. Am only looking for advice So i can decide what the best way to go about this for all involved would be.
Just trying to find out what my options are to weigh


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## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> How would it work? You act like an adult and endure for the sake of your kids. Good grief. What is it with people of this generation? Oh, I can't do THAT, that would make me uncomfortable, she might be mad at me, NO one can survive THAT....


And was wasnt asking for this reason. I dont care about how she feels or being uncomfortable. I care about knowing what my options are, and doing the right thing by my kids at this point. period.

Like i said, I think i will feel better about the legal ramifications and the impacts they have when i speak to this attorney


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## keko

Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum • View topic - THE LIST (Print It)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> i Will keep the VAR on me. Or use my phone.
> But, what does my generation have to do with not knowing the best way to handle a situation? Sorry If I'm a little scared that I am on here asking what I should do. Am only looking for advice So i can decide what the best way to go about this for all involved would be.
> Just trying to find out what my options are to weigh


Go back and read your thread. You will see ONE PREVAILING THEME: that you have to man up and start LEADING your family, and stop being a doormat. Doormat is what got you here in the first place. Alpha man doesn't take crap, he doesn't ask permission, he doesn't try to negotiate, he tells his wife what he needs and says I want you but if you won't reciprocate I deserve better. 

Your generation has grown up talking to people through an electronic device instead of learning how to express yourself face to face. You don't know how to face "bad" in the face and deal with it; so you find ways to get out of having to do so.


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> I care about knowing what my options are, and doing the right thing by my kids at this point.


So how would you moving AWAY from them be doing right by them?


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## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> So how would you moving AWAY from them be doing right by them?


Again, why I am asking. I don't KNOW what the beat move is. I only know how I feel right now, and am trying to get some rational feedback as to the reallity of the situation. And what people who may know would be the best thing. In my current state of mind I just want to be sure that all my moves are more thought out, and for the right reasons.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

I believe she is hedging and negotiating because she feels like she remains in the position of power. Sure you are upset, but in her head she will keep the kids, she can pick up the relationship she's never fully ended with the OM, and she can likely get you to both move out and give her child support.

Her parent's attitude has contributed to her feeling of justification and power, and quite likely she has remained in contract with the OM. It's also quite possible she's got a toxic friend at work who has long been aware of the OM and is feeding her with a bunch of attitude.

Again, the one point you have not gone after is the OM. You're not going there out of revenge upon him, you are going there to fully END and CRIPPLE the affair. You need to eliminate that safe harbor for her.


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## anchorwatch

Do not move out of your house, as she can claim and it can be seen as abandonment of your children, by a court.


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## sisters359

I read the first post and the last page, just to verify my first impression.

I was so sympathetic, OP, reading your first post--until you said the part about how you were a good husband, you didn't beat her or cheat (or whatever pathetic line you used). The absence of abuse does NOT make you a good husband. Get that through your head.

Having read the last page, too, I think "another person who is clueless and weak. . ." This is how you come across. Don't react defensively--accept you've made mistakes and you need to learn how to be different. You can learn it here, so good luck.


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> I listened to the conversation I recorded from when she told her parents. What I heard made me realize that, while her parents may have said what she did wasn't right, they spent 45 minutes trying to blameshift and make it sound as if how I treated their daughter was the cause of her A.
> The respect I had for her family members is no longer there. Which sucks cause I considered them my family. But the reality is she is their daughter. And my feelings are **** compared to hers. My feelings will never matter to them. And their little innocent girl can still do no wrong. The only reason they are even civil is because of their grandchildren. I just hope at some point they realize that what their daughter did is why things go the way they will, and NOT because of the problems we had before this all came to light. I refuse to be made to feel as if I am responsible for what she did.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They feel there could be a good reason for their loving daughter to eff another woman's husband and break up someone else's marriage. Are they kidding?


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## warlock07

Or she got in contact with the OM again.


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## endoftheroad

I was a bad husband. For her. The things I asked for throughout our entire relationship in order to be happy were very simple. She was never willing to provide them. It's both our faults for letting that become an acceptable relationship. But we did. Now that we are where we are, I wanted to do what I thought was best for us and the family. And that was make the attempt to try and save the marriage. My attempt was met with a slap in the face that she's never loved me enough to do the small things I asked before, why would I let myself believe that just because I caught her she would be remorsful and all of the sudden face reality.
We both need a reality check. 
I am about to walk into this law office in a few minutes. I've no clue how its going to go. I just hope getting this, legal advice, helps make the decision of how I'm going to proceed less painful than I feel right now.
While all the advice on here is good, everyone has their own Outlook on life. That's why I decided to make my initial post. To get some feedback that would help guide me in the best direction. And I feel I've gotten more than I expected. So thanks again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Oh, and iirc there was no mention to her parents that this OM was married. At this point hearing it from me won't do **** for me so why bother? She will never get into details with them, and I'm positive they already know more than they want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> Oh, and iirc there was no mention to her parents that this OM was married. At this point hearing it from me won't do **** for me so why bother? She will never get into details with them, and I'm positive they already know more than they want to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mistake!


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## Almostrecovered

forgive me, I forget did you expose to the OMW?


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## endoftheroad

Almostrecovered said:


> forgive me, I forget did you expose to the OMW?


Only someone who said on the phone they were the OMW.
I now have the address thanks to them filing for Bankruptcy in February. So im positive i have the correct address now. Wont go there. Avoiding confrontation for my own benefit at this time. Trying to decide the best way to go about letting the OMW know. Lawyer said in the end, contact is most likely a waste of my time and effort. He doesn't see any logical reason how it would benefit me in the end.
If my Wife chooses the OM, then I'll let her find out on her own that He cant support himself and his own family. Again, Not my business. Just now happens to be something i know.
I want to play my cards right here. 
At this point the only chance for a R is the wife shows a little more remorse and takes a lot more of the blame for what she did that contributed to where we are, instead of making herself believe that I somehow was the cause of it in her mind.
But at least now, I feel like I've gotten enough out of her to believe that she isn't interested or committed enough in her own mind to work it out. And i cant force anyone to do anything, let alone her right now. Don't even wanna try. She has taken all the try out of me. At least, right now.

I'm gonna be all over the 180 once i get a few moments of free time. Right now gonna get to work and try to get some **** done for a change.
Thanks again to everyone for their opinions to this point. If not, I wouldn't have even been to see a lawyer yet. So thanks for that somewhat mental push i needed to do what I needed


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## keko

Your lawyer is correct, partially. If you were in her place and were clueless, wouldn't you want to know the truth? Her phone call to you seemed suspicious, can OM stage someone else to call you as his wife? Instead of calling her, can you give her a letter face to face so you're 100% sure she has it? On the other hand going to his house is a risk for the possibility that he may be there as well...... lots of legal problems.

Make sure to read the reviews of your lawyer on the net, his previous cases and his success rate. Make sure he's a father's right advocate and not some random divorce lawyer.

180 is in my sig.


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## kindi

I'd don't understand why you'd file an "at fault" divorce if no fault is available in your state?

I'd guess your lawyer also advised you to go the no fault route?

Otherwise, if she contests the accusations of infidelity, you're going to have to go through a "grounds" trial and have solid proof. Take on perhaps another 6 months and $15-20,000 on both sides for legal costs.

My 2 cents having been there: Better off going right to a no fault divorce and concentrate on the really important issues of custody, support, asset distribution and who lives where.


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## endoftheroad

I only made the appointmet with the law firm based on the feedback of customers that used them. He was a straight shooter. Let me know what I could expect, what not to do, and the best legal way to approach certain things. I am going to attempt to talk to the stbxw tonight to see what sort of arrangment will be able to work from here in the kids regard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tryingtobebetter

If the OM has recently gone bankrupt then I think your position is far stronger than you thought. If you want her back, I think you can do it.

Still praying.


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> to see what sort of arrangment


Here you go again.

Did you even read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? At LEAST read some websites about it?

SHE is the problem here, not you. You don't ARRANGE anything. You TELL her what YOU will do moving forward that YOU want for the kids and if she doesn't like it, she can leave. But the kids stay at home with you until a judge tells you otherwise.

Every time you try to arrange anything, YOU end up backing down and giving up your rights and your dignity. Stop it!


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## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> I only made the appointmet with the law firm based on the feedback of customers that used them. He was a straight shooter. Let me know what I could expect, what not to do, and the best legal way to approach certain things..





endoftheroad said:


> .I am going to attempt to talk to the stbxw tonight to see what sort of arrangment will be able to work from here in the kids regard..


did your attorney tell you one of the things not to do is try to negotiate your divorce with your stbxw?

Don't get me wrong, if you can work out some of the details direclty with your stbxw you can save a ton of money in legal fees and speed up the process.

Then again if you sit down with her and tell her what you're looking to get in terms of custody, or support, or whatever, you're playing your hand, and she could very well run right to her own attorney and they can use that against you since they know what you're willing to settle for.

Again I speak from personal experience here. I sat with my exwife in a diner a few times during the 3 or 4 year duration of my divorce litigation, and each time I walked away from the table in the diner I was thinking "Yes, we finally can get this worked out!" and then I'd get a phone call the next day from my attorney telling me to stop negotiating with my exwife because she tells her attorney everything I told her.

It was lose/lose. Either pay the attorneys 10s of thousands to do virtually ALL the talking, or try to shortcut the whole mess and deal with her directly with unknown outcome. Looking back I never would have tried to speak to her but then again she was completely unreasonable.

Your mileage may vary but keep in mind that anything you say to your wife can and will probably be used against you.


----------



## keko

endoftheroad said:


> I only made the appointmet with the law firm based on the feedback of customers that used them. He was a straight shooter. Let me know what I could expect, what not to do, and the best legal way to approach certain things. I am going to attempt to talk to the stbxw tonight to see what sort of arrangment will be able to work from here in the kids regard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't waste your breath talking to her. Have her served quickly, after that tell her to contact your lawyer for settlement. This way she'll be itching to have a talk with you, and when she does you'll have the upper hand. Again set your goals as to what to expect from her regarding how much alimony, assets, child custody and child support. Stay firm on your goals and only give in if you;re getting something better in return.


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## endoftheroad

I haven't read the book. Just got the audiobook yesterday to make it easier to do that right now. 
I don't feel I am giving up my rights or my dignity by trying to make my primary focus my children. everyone, including my lawyer, told me that should be my primary concern. And I felt that way already. But I love my kids and will do whatever is in my power to put them through as little pain as I can. It's not their fault their mom wanted to be a ***** while playing me the fool. 
I can't let my anger and resentment for my ***** wife reflect my attitude around my kids. They have witnessed there father in recent months trying to deal with all the **** in his life. They see I am in pain and I know it upsets them. I need to focus on not letting my kids see through me, and be strong for them above all else right now.
At least, thats how I feel.
And I do love my ***** wife. And if she made me think for a minute that we had a change I wouldn't give up trying. But again, I can not force her to love me. Only hope at some point she has a better understanding of what she did, and works on that. I was willing to do anything for this woman a week ago. Not so much anything anymore. Unless she can prove to me, soon, that she would be interested In a R, I'm pretty sure its done. As much as it pains me to realize it. I'm just not good enough. For HER. 
At least now I know a big reason why I haven't been good enough. But I am sure done with getting discarded by the woman who claimed to have loved me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I need to listen to that book later. Will if I get the chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

endoftheroad, you're focusing too much on her. Stop that. She cheated for years with God knows how many guys and you're still hoping she'll magically change and come running to you? Sorry to break the news but that's just not happening is it? Maybe having her served with divorce papers will be her wake up call but most likely not. So you need to get your act together not just for yourself but more so for your kids. Do you want them to see their father as a weak person? Do you want them to be unhappy over a cheater?


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## Shaggy

You need to understand about the affair fog her mind has and is still in.

That's why we all keep suggesting steps to derail the affair, things to get her out of it so she can detox and start seeing clearly again what she is throwing away.

Keep in mind on taking advice from your lawyer. They are not a marriage counselor or advocate. They are there to protect you legally and your assets and to represent you through that process.


----------



## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> I don't feel I am giving up my rights or my dignity by trying to make my primary focus my children. everyone, including my lawyer, told me that should be my primary concern. And I felt that way already. But I love my kids and will do whatever is in my power to put them through as little pain as I can. It's not their fault their mom wanted to be a ***** while playing me the fool.
> I can't let my anger and resentment for my ***** wife reflect my attitude around my kids. They have witnessed there father in recent months trying to deal with all the **** in his life. They see I am in pain and I know it upsets them. I need to focus on not letting my kids see through me, and be strong for them above all else right now.


So you think moving out of the house will be less traumatic for them than seeing you cry? end, kids KNOW parents cry; they deal with it. They even band together to help you, which makes THEM feel good. They can handle you crying, and seeing you cry lets them know it's ok for THEM to be upset.

They do NOT handle you moving out without it creating lifelong PTSD in them. Do NOT do that unless the court moves you out, ok? If you move all, ALL they will learn is that dad runs away when things get hard.


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## kindi

Shaggy said:


> Keep in mind on taking advice from your lawyer. They are not a marriage counselor or advocate. They are there to protect you legally and your assets and to represent you through that process.


Some attorneys might be as good as a therapist, but the more important point is they're a heck of a lot more expensive. Avoid the urge to get into personal matters that are unrelated to the legal aspects of your case. Unless you're sitting in a courtroom hallway and you've got nothing else to discuss, at that point you're paying for their time anyway so what the heck.

Around here, attorneys bill in 10 minute increments and at the going rates, a 20 minute telephone call could cost about $160. 

Therapists tend to be a lot less expensive.



turnera said:


> So you think moving out of the house will be less traumatic for them than seeing you cry? end, kids KNOW parents cry; they deal with it. They even band together to help you, which makes THEM feel good. They can handle you crying, and seeing you cry lets them know it's ok for THEM to be upset.


Not a good idea to get all emotional in front of your young children when it comes to divorce related issues. It puts them in an unfair situation where they feel responsible for your emotional well being and maybe even force them to choose sides.

It's called "parentifying" children and that can really mess them up.

Crying over the death of a loved one is another matter entirely.


----------



## turnera

kindi said:


> Not a good idea to get all emotional in front of your young children when it comes to divorce related issues. It puts them in an unfair situation where they feel responsible for your emotional well being and maybe even force them to choose sides.
> 
> It's called "parentifying" children and that can really mess them up.


I'm aware of that, but end is justifying moving out by saying he doesn't want his kids to see him cry. Seeing him cry is a heck of lot less traumatic than watching him move out.


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## endoftheroad

On the lawyer, I know. When I talk to her tonight I may recommend that we go see a MC regardless of whY we are going to do. We need an unbiased mediator. I know how I should feel and how I do feel about whY she has done, but being with someone your whole adult life....I'm gonna venture to say that if I am supposed to release her from my heart but it isn't gonna happen in 5 days.
The more I see her attitude from this point will determine how long it takes me to give up all hope 100%
Call me a *****, but I just can't discard her as easy as she did me. It's hard, it hurts, and I think its going to take time. Spending time with the kids, ignoring her, and her continued lack of cooperation will make it happen at some point. Hopefully soon. But not today for me, sadly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Eh, there's no hurry for you to give up on her, end. No need to, really. If you want to fight for your marriage, fight for it! Most of here would rather see you stay together, if she could somehow 'get it.' But please please please start listening to NMMNG tonight, ok? Everything we have been explaining to you will make SO much more sense once you 'read' that book.


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## anchorwatch

End, you do what you need too, for you. We're only here to point out the different ways to go about it, a second set of eyes for you. You're not going to be divorced over night. You have time to put your life in order and move on with or without her. 

Listen to 'NMMNG' and read 'Divorce Busters' about implementing the 180. Keep using us and vent anytime you need. Don't lose track of your health.


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> On the lawyer, I know. When I talk to her tonight I may recommend that we go see a MC regardless of whY we are going to do. We need an unbiased mediator. I know how I should feel and how I do feel about whY she has done, but being with someone your whole adult life....I'm gonna venture to say that if I am supposed to release her from my heart but it isn't gonna happen in 5 days.
> The more I see her attitude from this point will determine how long it takes me to give up all hope 100%
> Call me a *****, but I just can't discard her as easy as she did me. It's hard, it hurts, and I think its going to take time. Spending time with the kids, ignoring her, and her continued lack of cooperation will make it happen at some point. Hopefully soon. But not today for me, sadly
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Going to MC isn't going to help you detach from her, it's going to have the opposite effect on you. 180 and NC will help you detach.


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## RoverRunder

I've read ALL 29 pages of this post so far and it's an EXTREMELY sad story, but far too common!!

While there is NO EXCUSE EVER for infidelity, do you understand how it happened and what your role in it was? You must have some idea since you ALMOST commited the same crime yourself. You need to understand all of it in order to move past it.

In your car recordings you say that your wife seemed "normal" and in a way content in just talking to some man about their respective days. That man should have been you, why didn't you ever demand that from her? Why didn't you ever assert yourself as the man in her life? The man to talk to and to trust and be honest with? No woman wants a doormat. Someone already mentioned "No More Mr. Nice Guy", you say you have the audiobook...listen to it. NOW. It helped my husband. It didn't fix our problems...WE fixed our problems, but the book did help.

And while the advice on here has some merit, you have to be careful what you listen to, not every situtation is exactly the same. I believe your situation can still be salvaged and it's saddening to see how you've both given each other the appearance of giving up. Yet you still mention your love for her...

Your initial post was seeking genuine advice on how to deal with a wife who seemed to have drifted away from you, even started treating you disrespectfully. The advice from me would have been that she's missing something, she's missing YOU. Hence the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" suggestion. A man who takes charge earns respect and trust from a woman. A weak man will be the downfall of a strong woman.

But since this also turned into a case of infidelity and not just "Nice Guy" syndrome, the focus is now on her infidelity. I will repeat that she was ABSOLUTELY in the wrong for that. But from my vantage point, I see no reason for her to put much fight into saving your marriage and "giving you what you want" because she's been missing something for quite some time and now she's expected to forget that and focus on you?

It's so so sad to hear that you still love her and are giving up. There is no blame in this situation, there NEVER is and that's what people need to realize. However, there is responsibility and each party accepting theirs and owning up. That may sound contradictory, and in a way it is. But the point is, point the finger at yourself and not at the other person, and the other person should be doing the same. That's where genuine remorse and accountability come from.

PLUS, I don't think either of you have earned a divorce yet. You have to EARN your way out of a marriage! How? By doing everything possible to try to fix it first. I DO NOT think you've done everything possible to earn your way out of this marriage yet. You're both taking the cowards (and common) way out.


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## turnera

RoverRunder said:


> I DO NOT think you've done everything possible to earn your way out of this marriage yet.


Agreed. You haven't even read the one book everyone is telling you is VITAL to saving your marriage.


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## tryingtobebetter

Please, how do I say I like what Turnera and Roverunder have just said? Sorry, new to this forum.


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## kindi

RoverRunder said:


> In your car recordings you say that your wife seemed "normal" and in a way content in just talking to some man about their respective days. That man should have been you, why didn't you ever demand that from her? Why didn't you ever assert yourself as the man in her life? The man to talk to and to trust and be honest with?


I don't get how a man can demand that his wife talk to her about her respective day or anything else. For a relationship to work, there's gotta be a comfort level, where each partner is comfortable with, and WANTS to share their day or anything else with their partner, not a situation where one partner says "I DEMAND you to tell me about your day and anything else that is on your mind!" I think your approach of him "being the man" and asserting himself is coming on too strong and is not the problem here at all.



RoverRunder said:


> No woman wants a doormat.


That's true. A woman wants a guy who is strong, independent, able to stand on his own, not a clingy needy weakling who can't survive without her. That does not mean a woman wants or needs an assertive guy who demands her to act a certain way.



RoverRunder said:


> And while the advice on here has some merit, you have to be careful what you listen to, not every situtation is exactly the same.


True. The advice is also mostly given by unlicensed regular folks who are here because they've been through their own relationship crises and who are probably biased to some degree and probably have no counseling experience. 



RoverRunder said:


> The advice from me would have been that she's missing something, she's missing YOU. Hence the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" suggestion. A man who takes charge earns respect and trust from a woman. A weak man will be the downfall of a strong woman.


She's missing something. Is it that he changed and he isn't the guy she married? Or he never was the guy she thought she married, or she just fell out of love and lost her connection with him because, well, to some extent human relationships do tend to falter over time, people grow away from each other, they fail to communicate properly, resentment builds, the grass looks greener, etc. It's not necessarily that "he got weak and she's strong so she went and screwed some other strong guy".



RoverRunder said:


> I see no reason for her to put much fight into saving your marriage and "giving you what you want" because she's been missing something for quite some time and now she's expected to forget that and focus on you?


True. She's not going to suddenly turn around and focus on him, she's obviously not interested in doing it now and she hasn't been interested in doing it for as long as she's been straying outside the marriage, and there's no indication it's going to change regardless of how strong he acts, although I agree his best course of action is to pull back, detach, and work on himself and his life independent of hers.



RoverRunder said:


> It's so so sad to hear that you still love her and are giving up.


He does not appear to be the one giving up. She shows little to no remorse and not much if any inclination to fix anything.



RoverRunder said:


> But the point is, point the finger at yourself and not at the other person, and the other person should be doing the same. That's where genuine remorse and accountability come from.


Yes he needs to find fault within himself for reasons why she strayed because this is probably not the last relationship he'll ever have and if nothing else, he needs to learn from this failed marriage and be all the better for it rather than just blaming her for everything and never improving himself.



RoverRunder said:


> PLUS, I don't think either of you have earned a divorce yet. You have to EARN your way out of a marriage! How? By doing everything possible to try to fix it first.


No one has to earn anything. She cheated, she's not remorseful, his best course of action is to divorce her.

He can't control her actions and her feelings, no matter how "strong and assertive" he is.


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## keko

tryingtobebetter said:


> Please, how do I say I like what Turnera and Roverunder have just said? Sorry, new to this forum.


You just said it.


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## endoftheroad

after the kids are asleep I will be listening to that book. 
And again, thanks to everyone who has contributed. I'm not taking anyone persons advice to the bank. But all of it has helped me step back and make my best conscious effort to react the best way.
I'd love nothing more than for my wife to realize that if I divorce her, she's gonna be the one paying Alimony...Loosing half her 401k, etc. I'm not trying to turn this into the knock down drag out fight some people have suggested. 
Sadly, I ****ing love this *****. I never loved anyone, and hated them as much, just the same, so that's a new feeling. 
I did feel better doing what little work i got done today. And My mind is more at ease knowing what she can and cant do to me legally.


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## turnera

kindi said:


> It's not necessarily that "he got weak and she's strong so she went and screwed some other strong guy".


Maybe. But it's far more common than any OTHER reason I've seen in 10 years of reading stories on forums like this.


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## kindi

endoftheroad said:


> I'd love nothing more than for my wife to realize that if I divorce her, she's gonna be the one paying Alimony...Loosing half her 401k, etc.


Won't do you a damn bit of good.

My marriage failed primarly because of differences in spending habits and child rearing styles.

She tried to coerce me to do things her way because if not, she would divorce me and it would cost me more then just letting her spend on whatever she wanted to, once I got done with giving her half of everything and all the support I'd be paying.

Her threats didn't quite have the effect of making me think "wow she's right, I really want to stay married to this B**tch for the next 20 years! because it's cheaper to keeper". There are some things money can't buy.. freedom from a bad marriage is one of them.

In fact, her threats of divorce exponentially increased the speed at which we did exactly that.

You can't convince your wife to stay with you because it will be too expensive to divorce. Besides, the odds are she already has done her research and she knows she'll be paying support and she's willing to make that sacrifice.



turnera said:


> Maybe. But it's far more common than any OTHER reason I've seen in 10 years of reading stories on forums like this.


Really? Women cheat on their spouses because the guy started acting weak?

I didn't know that.

I thought it was maybe because he neglected her needs and feelings, or developed a gaming addiction, or he got addicted to drugs or drinking, or became a workaholic. He got weak, so she cheated. Hmm, you learn something new every day.


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## endoftheroad

I know it won't matter. It's why I'm not mentioning it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

kindi said:


> Really? Women cheat on their spouses because the guy started acting weak?
> 
> I didn't know that.
> 
> I thought it was maybe because he neglected her needs and feelings, or developed a gaming addiction, or he got addicted to drugs or drinking, or became a workaholic. He got weak, so she cheated. Hmm, you learn something new every day.


IME, the women who cheat are usually stronger personalities and they thus 'gear' their husbands to 'man down' to accommodate them, and then the women start despising the men because they have become weak. So they go looking for a 'real man.'

The women whose needs aren't getting met are IN that position because they are weaker, and thus don't speak up; they just broil in their own resentment, until the kids are grown. Then they leave. There's a reason most walkaway wives are around 35-45; they suffer in silence, do their motherly duty, and then leave, thinking they'll find another man who WILL meet their needs. They don't stop to realize that it's half their fault for not speaking up in the first place.


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## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> IME, the women who cheat are usually stronger personalities and they thus 'gear' their husbands to 'man down' to accommodate them, and then the women start despising the men because they have become weak. So they go looking for a 'real man.'
> 
> The women whose needs aren't getting met are IN that position because they are weaker, and thus don't speak up; they just broil in their own resentment, until the kids are grown. Then they leave. There's a reason most walkaway wives are around 35-45; they suffer in silence, do their motherly duty, and then leave, thinking they'll find another man who WILL meet their needs. They don't stop to realize that it's half their fault for not speaking up in the first place.


Like I had stated earlier in my posts, I know that we both play a role in how our marriage got to this point. Tonight was the first time that I talked to her since dday that I felt how much she regrets what she did. Better late than never. And I'm sure someone will say its a fog. It may well be. But she seemed genuine and honest to me for the first time in a long time. So I have to try and take some good out of that. 

While I am still fully aware of what's going on, it was relieving for her to at least act the way she did. She finally made me feel like I wasn't the one to blame for what she did, and appears very ashamed of what she's done and what she risked. 
I am not sugar coating anything I say to her. Just being honest. Because its who I am. I'm not begging for anything, and all I want is to know that we tried (both of us) to see if we can salvage this.
If it works or it doesn't, only time will tell. 
I'm no longer blind thanks to the good people here. And while I'm sure many would like to see that I just manned up and got out. I married this woman for life. I, unlike most, do not want to throw this all away. Not without knowing that I gave her half the chance she gave me. Even when part of me says to. I don't know if its because I'm a hopeless romantic or because I'm just broken that got us to where we are.

There's a lot to my whole story. At some point here I would like to post some of the backside of it. Not just to get some input, but mainly to point out the things NOT to do, on both couples Parts, to even get to where I am.
I hope that something someone said in this thread can be looked at the same way. For good or bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

What made her suddenly change? I think she's stalling to file for divorce first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

keko said:


> What made her suddenly change? I think she's stalling to file for divorce first.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doesn't matter in my state. I know for sure now. Whats between my legs will always put me at a disadvantage in any court when it comes to kids and custody. But she could bang the football team. Unless in doing so she endangered the kids, yada yada.

I need to sleep on this. gonna put book on my phone so i can listen at work tomorrow


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## turnera

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with trying to save your marriage, especially when you have kids. Just make sure you do so AFTER reading NMMNG.


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## tryingtobebetter

End

You say perhaps you are broken. We are all wounded one way or another. You say perhaps you are a hopeless romantic. I say you are a good man, who loves his children.

My uncle, a great and very good man, used to say love is stronger than fear. He was right. 

Do nothing important in a hurry.


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## endoftheroad

tryingtobebetter said:


> End
> 
> You say perhaps you are broken. We are all wounded one way or another. You say perhaps you are a hopeless romantic. I say you are a good man, who loves his children.
> 
> My uncle, a great and very good man, used to say love is stronger than fear. He was right.
> 
> Do nothing important in a hurry.


I don't have much fear in my life, so when the fear of losing the one I really do love, its hard to let fear > love 
I'm not blind anymore to the past, and we both need to open our eyes for the future. 

When I almost strayed a decade ago, my aunt (who was died of cancer not long after)
Was consoling me for how bad I felt about how much I hurt my wife after the fact.
She told me that she was not in love with my uncle for a long time. No infidelity was ever involved, they just fell out of love at one point in their life.
She told me that she learned to love him again, and couldn't even imagine life without her husband at this point. It made me step back and realize that we were gonna go through some bad times. But that in the end, we make our own happiness. Happiness is not something that falls in your lap. Not if its real. You have to be able to be happy and appreciate what you have. If you can do that, than someday you'll understand what true happiness is all about. 
I'm still very hurt, angry, confused, etc. But no matter what has been said and done, I still have a love for my wife and what I have with her, that I have to have the belief that we can get through this. That I can. 
Right now, I just need my wife to prove a lot to me. I have to at least give her the same change she gave me so long ago. 
If we try and fail, at least THEN I Can say I did my best, and gave her the change she deserved. I hope **** works out. But if it doesn't at least I will be able to live with myself knowing that I gave it my all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> Like I had stated earlier in my posts, I know that we both play a role in how our marriage got to this point. Tonight was the first time that I talked to her since dday that I felt how much she regrets what she did. Better late than never. And I'm sure someone will say its a fog. It may well be. But she seemed genuine and honest to me for the first time in a long time. So I have to try and take some good out of that.
> 
> While I am still fully aware of what's going on, it was relieving for her to at least act the way she did. She finally made me feel like I wasn't the one to blame for what she did, and appears very ashamed of what she's done and what she risked.
> I am not sugar coating anything I say to her. Just being honest. Because its who I am. I'm not begging for anything, and all I want is to know that we tried (both of us) to see if we can salvage this.
> If it works or it doesn't, only time will tell.



Good your firm stance, on remorse or divorce, it took time for her to come out of the fog a bit and see what your family has to lose. 




endoftheroad said:


> I'm still very hurt, angry, confused, etc. But no matter what has been said and done, I still have a love for my wife and what I have with her, that I have to have the belief that we can get through this. That I can.
> Right now, I just need my wife to prove a lot to me. I have to at least give her the same change she gave me so long ago.
> If we try and fail, at least THEN I Can say I did my best, and gave her the change she deserved. I hope **** works out. But if it doesn't at least I will be able to live with myself knowing that I gave it my all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



That's what its about, what you can live with and knowing you tried. That's not always possible. If you think there is a chance, take it. Don't let the divorce advocates push you if your not ready.

You know it can't be what has been going on between you both. The changes have to be made. You have the books recommend and you have this site. Use them and trust you gut. If she's ready give her "HNHN" to read.


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## turnera

HNHN would be a great book for her to read. Very enlightening.


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## Shaggy

Take this commitment by her and purge the physical tokens of the OM from your home - as I suggested before throw out the clothes and lingerie she wore for him, and especially ALL gifts he gave her. It all goes in the trash.


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## endoftheroad

Oh yes, will have that talk tonight probably. Trying to give us both a few moments to breathe and not start throwing demands at her all at once. But besides the NC letter, the cloths. Lingerie, etc. Will have to go. Asap. Weather she wore it for him. If it was bought with him in mind, it goes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Pretty sure we are on the same page now at least. I explained to her why I don't care what she thinks about what I'm asking of her to do. Like the NC letter. Need her to understand that, while I am willing to do my part, there are certain things that are not negotiable. The NC letter is the 1st and main thing. She has agreed to do it today. Things are at least looking more positve. 
Still can't thank you all enough for helping me through getting to this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Yay!


----------



## anchorwatch

Glad to hear your on the path to R. Hope the best for you and your family.


----------



## warlock07

Ask her to start posting here. There are quite a few reconciling BS (Somedaydig, Betrayed1) actively posting on TAM. Even the WS are posting here(Empty Inside, Regret214). She could use their suggestions and help


----------



## endoftheroad

She's very bad at expressing herself. Kinda how we got to this point. we've talked and I told her that this needs to change if we are going to have a chance at this. I'm hoping she is able to start communicating her feelings better with me from now on. Trying to get her to understand just how important it is that she let me know how she feels, what she's thinking, and the things she does and doesn't like about me. So far I've gotten a lot more cooperation than previously. 
I just hope this isn't all some sort of smoke screen. I don't think it is. But I also never thought she was capable of cheating. Much less for over a year. 
Thanks for the advice. I will def look into what you posted and see if its something she could hopefully find helpful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

It may be too early to introduce her to this forum. She only broke it off with her lover last week. Surly, she is still fighting the feelings for him. I wouldn't bring her here until you are sure of her intentions!

I would give her the book 'HNHN' for now. Then decide, after she understands what got you both to this point in your marriage.


----------



## Almostrecovered

^^^I agree there have been some isolated cases where the WS used the forum to be better able to "fake" R (Allybabe comes to mind)


----------



## endoftheroad

Also, I got the model of her phone. Someone said they could help me figure out how to get deleted sms messages off it? It's an LG Ally vs740. Much thanks for the help. And yeah, I'm not ready to bring her to my safe haven. At some point maybe, but def not today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

figures- quick google search on that model



> You cannot recover deleted SMS messages.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I did see a mention on another site about using a sd card reader, perhaps that would work, it wouldn't be too expensive to try as you can get one under $20


----------



## endoftheroad

guess I will have to find another way to see who else may have known. Figured that would have been the easiest way to get a feel. 
What they need is a keystroke-like program for smart phones. Cmon you programming genius'!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Yeah I read that. Gonna at least try that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> guess I will have to find another way to see who else may have known. Figured that would have been the easiest way to get a feel.
> What they need is a keystroke-like program for smart phones. Cmon you programming genius'!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Flexispy for cell phone spyware
Flexispy.com


----------



## Almostrecovered

endoftheroad said:


> What they need is a keystroke-like program for smart phones. Cmon you programming genius'!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


they have those

Mobile Spy should work


----------



## endoftheroad

Awesome will look into that later. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## endoftheroad

Wow, nothing cheap about 350 for a year. Wish I didn't have to wait a week or 2 to be able to buy it lol. 
If that flexispy does what it says, that's exactly what I need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Did you order the book, "His Needs, Her Needs" yet?


----------



## sandc

Did she write the NC letter? Was it sent?


----------



## endoftheroad

Have real life going on, and haven't got to ask her today yet. Once I am done with my oldests practice and get her home and get a second, it will be the first thing I ask is where's the NC letter. Hopefully I won't be disappointed
No, didn't get that book yet. I plan on buying it tom night hopefully. Right now I'm reading the best one available to me that isn't an shook. It's called "after the affair"
So far I am only about 100 pages in, but it seems to be pretty spot on. I have every intention of reading the others recommended. Just need the time to myself to go get them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## endoftheroad

Well, she claims being slammed at work as to her reason she hasn't written the NC letter yet. I tried to give her time last night but she claimed to be too tired and said she will do it today. It sucks, but if she can't accomplish this for me, then I'm pretty sure I can see how everything else is gonna go. 
Guess I better prepare myself to let her know that I can't do this if she can't do her part. Hopefully this isn't going to be the straw that breaks my back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

bad sign and I'd be concerned she is indeed in contact with him


----------



## endoftheroad

I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

what spying are you doing to verify her actions?


----------



## endoftheroad

Checking email. Checking phone and txt records. Var. 
I feel like I can't do enough. And while she may NOT be contacting the OM, she has not worked very hard to do what o told her she needed to do to prove it.
If this isn't done by the time she goes to be tonight I'm not sure how I'm going to handle tomorrow. I guess ill start by telling her she had her chance and couldn't even bring herself to do the simple things I've asked. 
I don't give a **** about her excuses, and reasons why she hasn't done it yet. She can't get that through her had. I love her and all, but I really don't give two ****s and a **** about how she feels about this situation. I guess its going to come down to me in the end..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Don't think I'm even going to approach her about it. If she can't see the importance this holds then its a pretty good sign of how everything else is going to go. She knows I am upset. Last night and this morning. She knows its angered me. If I have to ask again....I won't. She's either gonna do it, or not. I'm so done playing games right now. And since I feel like the last year, at least, has been nothing but a game in which I never got the chance to play, I don't want to play this one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

honestly if she going to test your resolve right off the bat then you should just show her you mean business (file) instead of threatening her


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## endoftheroad

If the letter, along with an apology for it taking her so long, are not given to me today, then I will most likely be finding me a new home starting Monday. And the opportunities and nice guy will be gone before I wake up in the morning. I won't make her leave. Better for the kids if they stay with mom. And hopefully someday they will understand why I left, and learn from it. I'm sure they'll live. It just sucks knowing what it will put them through. But I'm done being taken advantage of because of MY feelings and family beliefs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

I hope you consult your lawyer about leaving the house, the way you handle the separating can effect custody


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## turnera

Please don't move out before talking to your lawyer. I have seen WAY TOO MANY men get screwed financially and in terms of time with the kids, JUST because they moved out.

Why don't you stop at Lowes and pick up some moving boxes on your way home today? Just for grins.


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## endoftheroad

You know, if I don't get what I said I needed before the days out, I think I will go do just that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

If she doesn't write the NC letter. Say nothing more to her. File for divorce and start doing the 180.


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## anchorwatch

She doesn't know what she wants, she checked out so long, she can't decide. She is waffling. You know what it has to be, him or you. You steer this ship, she can't. Make the decision for her, in or out. 

Don't let anger rule you, stay calm, but strong and resolved to have the NC letter or move on. 


Just a note, The both of you keep using 'real life' as a reason for delays to work on this marriage. Where are you both going to find 15 hours a week, couple time, to breath life back into this marriage?


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## donders

endoftheroad said:


> If the letter, along with an apology for it taking her so long, are not given to me today, then I will most likely be finding me a new home starting Monday.


Don't move out of your home.


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## keko

endoftheroad said:


> If the letter, along with an apology for it taking her so long, are not given to me today, then I will most likely be finding me a new home starting Monday. And the opportunities and nice guy will be gone before I wake up in the morning. I won't make her leave. Better for the kids if they stay with mom. And hopefully someday they will understand why I left, and learn from it. I'm sure they'll live. It just sucks knowing what it will put them through. But I'm done being taken advantage of because of MY feelings and family beliefs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How many times have we told you leaving the marital home is the worst action you can take? For the record it is NOT better for the kids to stay with a wayward spouse and they'll see you as the coward that left instead of the brave that kicked out the cheater.

If you're not going to take our advice then why ask?


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## endoftheroad

If things went well to that point, I was planning on spending the time with her this weekend. But right now, Idk
I will make sure that my lawyer draft something up for her to sign before I leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

If I'm the one that leaves. Telling her to leave, and not take the kids, will be seen as a threat and **** will be said and done.....I just want to try and avoid that situation. Again. I'm not trying to use them to get the point across that I will be done with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> If things went well to that point, I was planning on spending the time with her this weekend. But right now, Idk
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a problem. Your willing to wait for another weekend. You don't have time to wait. The letter would have been written if the two of you sat down together, for an hour at most. The books would have been delivered by now, if ordered. Put the extracurricular activities aside. How is going to community events, children's sports, gym or whatever, going to put this marriage on back on course?

Add; You need to spend time with your wife every day, now in this mess, more then when things are going well.


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## endoftheroad

We do, everyday, discuss this. Weather it be for 30 min or an hour. We are not ignoring it. And we are not ignoring each other. It's the opposite. But she failed, up to this moment, to understand the importance of breaking contact and how this NC letter is more for me than her. 
If I had it my way, we would spend way more time on this right now. But I am trying to be civil and wait for the correct moments to approach the discussion. Both of us know it needs to be discussed. She just doesn't understand how important these days are right now. 
You also need to keep in mind, as I'm trying to, that she does not have people telling her anything right now like I do. I'm trying to be understanding, while making sure she knows where I stand and how I feel.
I already told her its not gonna work if she wouldn't write the letter. She said she would. I didn't park her ass and make her write it. So she delayed. Now, I am positive she knows how I feel if it doesn't get done today. 
If I don't see a NC letter in my hand tonight that's more than 1 sentence, then its on to the 180 for me. This **** takes 2, and right now I shouldn't even be the one who gives a ****. Yet, I am.
Oh, and also I am not a speed reader. I have all the books except hnhn and can't read the **** any faster. I also can't try and read more than one at a time. 
I'm not NOT taking advice given. But I am sure every situation is different. I'm not letting anything go. I just can't do all this **** at once. 
The book I am reading now is After the Affair. Recommended by the therapist she saw last. When I am done with it (halfway now) I will give it to her and focus on the next. Probably NMMNG and then the other one I got that was suggested. Surviving an affair I believe it was called. 
Or, implement the 180 and go from there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

The anger is starting to build. That's a good thing. She needs to feel some of that. I think the situation could probably do with a bit less civility. How civil was it for her to bang OM all that time? No very civil at all. I would suggest unbottling it when the kids aren't around. Feel the anger, feel the resentment and pour it out.

However, you are the boots on the ground there. Play it the way it makes sense to you. To me though it sounds like she's still in the fog. She needs cold water thrown on her in the form of divorce papers and a hard-a$$ husband who tells her how it's going to be if she wants to stay married. Otherwise she packs her bags and can move in with OM. Married or not.

Time to shake her out of it. But again... I'm not there.


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## anchorwatch

Good, it's clearer now. Sorry for the storm warnings. You're at the wheel, good course. 'After the Affair' is a good one. Wish you well tonight.


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## endoftheroad

If I felt like our conversations were going in a different direction I would be a lot more angry about the NC letter. But I agree that it must be done, and it will help me to believe she means what she says. If it doesn't help, at least I can look at it as she complied. That would at least have some positive meaning to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

She really does need to do the hard work here. If she won't or can't then I think you have her answer. You can't make her want to be married. If she thinks you'll be fine without her she may work harder though.


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## endoftheroad

Her . How was your day?
Me . It was short. Been home since 1230. Reading.
Her . Must be nice to come home at 1230
Me . I would have much rather been working, than reading what I was reading. 

Me . How was your day?
Her . Company picnic today. It was rainy so I didn't go at first. Then it cleared up so I went to lunch with my 2 friends from work (who she says are unaware. I don't believe her)
Me . So, did you write that letter today?
Her . Not yet, I brought paper home and was going to write it over the weekend and you can mail it Monday.
Me .......silence
Her . Is that ok with you? 
Me . I just don't get why this is so hard for you to do already.
Her . I've been very busy at work. Then I come home and have this job. I've been tired. starting to cry, I stop. My 5yo asks why she is crying
Me . Ok. 
Then I sat in silence for a second. And walked away.
The way I feel right now? I feel like I see now where my feelings and our marriage are on her list of priorities.
Guess I'm going to buy some boxes tomorrow and start getting my **** ready.
See if she wakes up. If not, then new direction for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

If you leave, her lawyer will say you abandoned your children and custody will go well in her favor. 

If it comes to that.


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## anchorwatch

End, she is stuck between starting her new marriage with you and mourning her loss. It's a symptom of withdrawal from a long term drug. The fog, as per say. Stay strong. Sounds like you'll have it this weekend. 

Did you both discus what the letter should should state?


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## endoftheroad

She knows exactly what it should state to the OM. I told her I could show her some examples if that would help, or I would even help her write it. But that it needs to be done. We talked some more. While she said she would write it tonight if she had to, she would like the weekend to be able to think about what she's going to say. If, in reading her letter, I believe It WAS well thought out, and with my feelings in mind, than I will accept that as her first step to doing what she must if we are going to even continue with the trying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

sandc said:


> If you leave, her lawyer will say you abandoned your children and custody will go well in her favor.
> 
> If it comes to that.


I won't leave without her signing a legal document with terms. So not worried about those consequences anymore. Just all the ones that will come when I actually do leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> If I felt like our conversations were going in a different direction I would be a lot more angry about the NC letter. But I agree that it must be done, and it will help me to believe she means what she says. If it doesn't help, at least I can look at it as she complied. That would at least have some positive meaning to it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Here's the thing about this. You have to look at this in layers. Or priorities. We all know, YOU know, that a NC letter is a HUGE deal, a mental stand taken, essential for both of you. She doesn't exactly see the immensity of it.

That's why this has to be your focus. Forget the rest of the stuff. Don't talk about anything else. Make this a repeated mantra: I can't move forward with you until you do the NC letter. She doesn't have to get it; all she has to know is you won't move forward without it. No discussion. It's your first layer, your first priority.


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> Her . How was your day?
> Me . It was short. Been home since 1230. Reading.
> Her . Must be nice to come home at 1230
> Me . I would have much rather been working, than reading what I was reading.
> 
> Me . How was your day?
> Her . Company picnic today. It was rainy so I didn't go at first. Then it cleared up so I went to lunch with my 2 friends from work (who she says are unaware. I don't believe her)
> Me . So, did you write that letter today?
> Her . Not yet, I brought paper home and was going to write it over the weekend and you can mail it Monday.
> Me .......silence
> Her . Is that ok with you?
> Me . I just don't get why this is so hard for you to do already.
> Her . I've been very busy at work. Then I come home and have this job. I've been tired. starting to cry, I stop. My 5yo asks why she is crying
> Me . Ok.
> Then I sat in silence for a second. And walked away.
> The way I feel right now? I feel like I see now where my feelings and our marriage are on her list of priorities.
> Guess I'm going to buy some boxes tomorrow and start getting my **** ready.
> See if she wakes up. If not, then new direction for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow. She's good. She knows that all she has to do is cry - in front of the kids - and you back off. 

She got what she wanted.


----------



## turnera

Go back and tell her you want it tonight.

There is NO reason for her to think about what she wants to say to her lover. That is a slap in the face to you and you should NOT accept it. Start your alpha behavior tonight - tell her you want it by midnight.

btw, if you had read No More Mr Nice Guy already, you'd already know this.


----------



## endoftheroad

We already talked and I already made the compromise. How would it not be counter-productive to make that demand now? 
As soon as I'm done with the book I'm reading (hopefully by the end of this weekend) I will make nmmng the next thing I read. While she reads after the affair. 
From what I've read so far, I'm hoping that when she reads it, she may better get how I feel right now. Maybe it will help her not only make her decision, but know better what she's done to me. And what her role will need to be if she really does want to salvage our marriage. 
Her therapist told her she should talk to a friend. But she doesn't have any friends really, outside of work. And she claims they don't know. And she doesn't want them to know. So, she feels like she doesn't have anyone TO talk to about this. Besides parents/family. Which isn't the same as a genuine friend. Which, she really doesn't have. So, she doesn't have the outlets I do. So besides her therapist, who she won't see again till wed this week, I am the only one who she feels she can talk to. 
Knowing that I have a best friend to talk to, and this website with multiple non biased opinions, I know more about what its gonna take and feel more sure about it than she does. so I have to take that into consideration. At least a little bit. I know everything said to me on here holds water and I should follow through with most of it. But until I know she is sure about what she wants, I feel like I should take the above into consideration. That's all. 
Is that not the fair thing for me to do here? I mean, I do want to at least give her the change to R. And right now, I know she doesn't know or understand what that's going to take. Fully understand it.
I think once we talk to a MC, where we can both say our piece together, and here what they have to say to US. Once I see this, and how she takes this new opinion, I think I will able to better gauge her willingness to change. 
I could be wrong, and this could not matter. But at least than I can say I gave her the opportunity to say her piece in front of someone who's opinion was not for or against either of us. If after, she can't decide to make changes necessary for R, then I make my choice. Non rushed, more thought out, and more sure of what she's really all about here. 
Idk, I'm just trying to do the best with what I got. It would be easy for me to tell her to **** off and hate her forever for what she's done to me. I'm not trying to take the easy way out. But thanks to this site, I won't be the doormat I was during this process. Hopefully that helps moving forward. Who knows...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tryingtobebetter

end

hang in there. I agree with the others, do not leave the house or children.

still rooting for you


----------



## endoftheroad

tryingtobebetter said:


> end
> 
> hang in there. I agree with the others, do not leave the house or children.
> 
> still rooting for you


Thanks. Amazing how much it means. Even comming from someone I don't know. Appreciate it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You could send her to marriageadvocates.com. They're good at helping WSs figure things out.


----------



## anchorwatch

End, you're there, we're not. Look how much you've progressed in two weeks. Keep it going. You decide what path to take. We're just walking along with you.


----------



## endoftheroad

To say I needed help on all this would be an understatement. If I did not find this site and listen to what was put out there for me, I would still be the blind man I was. No amount of Ty's can ever let you all know what its meant for me. 
Today, right now, I have spent every waking minute thinking about how I don't even know my wife. What she's done. How easy she made it seem. For so long. I'm just trying to imagine a scenario that will put me In a trusting position again. I can't see it. And I know I will never forget about it. Just hope the pain I feel subsides soon. At least to the point where it doesn't consume me. Not looking forward to how I feel till that happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tryingtobebetter

end

I am sure we all feel for you. 

I have not had your experience but have, many, many years ago, known real despair, thought the best thing would be to end my life. I pulled back at the last minute and, though it took time, slowly healed. I am now, many years on, extraordinarily happy.

It can all come good with patience and perseverence.


----------



## endoftheroad

Be lying if I said the thought hasn't crossed my mind more than once over the past week. And I'm sure I'm going to have some times ahead of me where I feel it again. 
Locally there has been an increased rate of jumpers by me over the last month. 4 I believe. I don't know what their issues were that made them feel like life wasn't worth the pain anymore. But I know exactly now what it feels like to have that much hurt that it would seem like a good idea at times. I just know that I couldn't do that to my kids. And in the end, imo, I helped bring them into this world. It's my sole responsibility to make sure I think of them before I take what some would call the selfish way out.
Sometimes its just a lot to take in. When your whole world appears to have been stripped from you in the blink of an eye, its easy to make a bad choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## endoftheroad

She finally wrote the NC letter. I am pleased enough with what she said in it. I really hope for the OM sake he takes this letter to heart and doesn't try to contact her. And vice-verse. Neither of them want to test me at this point. Both should be lucky its going the direction it is. If the OM was smart, he'd try to work on his own marriage. If he's not, He'll try to reconnect with my wife. 
Lets hope he got the picture when I called him initially with what I would do if he didn't give her up.

Finally, I feel like something is going the way it should. Now to go take my kid to a pool party! Maybe I'll actually be social now that the NC letter thing is off my chest. 


Tomorrow we're gonna set aside a few hours for us. Think I'm going to take her to this place we went when we were younger. Nice, scenic metro park type area where i recall us carving our initials into a tree there. Maybe a good place to go and sit, relax, and talk. Or just sit and enjoy each other. I'm hoping...


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> She finally wrote the NC letter. I am pleased enough with what she said in it. I really hope for the OM sake he takes this letter to heart and doesn't try to contact her. And vice-verse. Neither of them want to test me at this point. Both should be lucky its going the direction it is. If the OM was smart, he'd try to work on his own marriage. If he's not, He'll try to reconnect with my wife.
> Lets hope he got the picture when I called him initially with what I would do if he didn't give her up.
> 
> Finally, I feel like something is going the way it should. Now to go take my kid to a pool party! Maybe I'll actually be social now that the NC letter thing is off my chest.
> 
> 
> Tomorrow we're gonna set aside a few hours for us. Think I'm going to take her to this place we went when we were younger. Nice, scenic metro park type area where i recall us carving our initials into a tree there. Maybe a good place to go and sit, relax, and talk. Or just sit and enjoy each other. I'm hoping...


Glad to hear. Now it's time to connect


----------



## tryingtobebetter

really pleased for you


----------



## Almostrecovered

I hope you see why hand writing a letter is an important step, aside from making it clear to OM that his contact isn't wanted, it gives your wife the moment to actually stop and think about what has happened and can help bring her out of the fog

be sure to discuss what she should do if OM does initiate contact- that he may fish with an innocuous "How are you?" or a phone call one month later and she must ignore the contact and inform you right away.

I assume you are getting transparency now? Passwords, able to look at her phone, etc?


----------



## turnera

Also know that a waywards often try to go NC and reconnect 2, 3, 4 times before they finally walk away. Don't beat her up if it happens - just be firm in your conviction. "You get one more chance," that kind of thing.


----------



## endoftheroad

This is her one and only chance. If contact happens, and she tells me immediately, It will make me believe she is more serious about what she said she was doing. I know dude is going to try to contact her. I'm not sold yet that she won't be contacting him. But we will see.
And, while I have asked and recieved before, I will be reiterating my need to have her full, no questions asked, cooperation when I ask for access to anything of hers. Period. Hopefully she complies. But I'll know more later. My kid has a championship game in the next hour, so getting ready for that then pry take the kids to a festival. 
I have told her that I'm going to be writing what I want to say to her on a daily basis (if I don't actually get the chance to say all I want) I asked that she do the same. Sort of a diary, if you will, that each of us can go to to read. I want her to be able to express herself to me, and since telling me to my face how she feels hasn't worked in the past, may as well try this. Hopefully one of many things she will do to show what it all really means to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

Regarding NC, include messages from third parties (OM's brother). 

Great idea on putting things down on paper for each other. That method is commonly used in couples counseling.


----------



## endoftheroad

Should I deliver the letter myself, or certified mail? I know, mail would be best. But I have this need for him to see for himself that this is no longer a game. Besides controlling myself, what would be a reason to not hand it directly to him. Or his wife, for that matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Certified mail, keep a copy in case he becomes a bunny boiler and you need to get a RO


----------



## Almostrecovered

Do send a copy to his wife (best if you can find her work if it applies)


----------



## endoftheroad

I don't thin she works. And I'm not even sure it was her I talked to on the phone. So I guess certified copies to both of them? Not sure why, but I have this need to let his parents know. Why do I give a **** about that at all? Maybe cause the OM is originally from my hometown, and his family still lives here? Idk exactly why, but I do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Because you're directing your anger at the OM instead of at your wife, not that he doesn't deserve some of it. You'll probably harbor all sorts of nasty fantasies of things you want to do to OM like I did. Which is another reason to stay away from him and just eork behind the scenes to extricate him from your life.


----------



## endoftheroad

The worst part for me right now is that the hurt and anger I feel has made me not the sociable guy I was. I feel like everyone I talk to knows. Even if I know they don't. I feel like everyone does. 
I can't go through half a day without thinking so much I break down. I did not shed this many tears when my father died. But knowing what I was blind to in the past just makes me recall every moment of our relationship. Questioning it all. 
I need something to make me stupid right now. Something that gets me so ****ed up that I CAN'T get sad.
I always looked at crying as something a man just doesn't do often. Now, I can't stop myself. That does wonders for the self esteem too.
Man I can't wait for this all to get better. Weather together or alone. 
Right when I feel like I can't handle another thought, it forces it way in my head. 
Makes me want to tell anyone in love that they're crazy. The payoff hasn't been worth the heartache to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Which is why the spending lots of time with your wife is very important while trying R, you need to start the rebonding process and add positive new memories 

But yeah you're in hell right now no denying that


----------



## endoftheroad

I feel like Hell probably has more to offer. At least, from what I read, I KNOW ill burn. No ifs, ands or buts about it. This, I'm not sure of anything. 
So yeah, if I had a choice right now, I pick Hell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## endoftheroad

Sucks. Obviously my whole Outlook on life will never be the same because of this. I feel like every guy that looks at my wife now is competition. I never had that feeling with her. I always thought "I have no need to worry, she loves me" Now I know better. Every guy I see look in my direction, I think "is that the OM"
That's why I am trying to rationalize seeing him for myself. I'm not sure what will drive me more insane. Knowing what he looks like, or pretending like it doesn't matter and I don't need to know.

While the chance for R is there, I just find it so hard to believe its possible. I can't help but overthink everything right now. And I know its not helping me. I just can't NOT. I would do anything to not have these thoughts rule my mind. Surprisingly, alcohol has yet to make these thoughts worse. Doesn't help though either. 

I've witnessed a lot of people in and out of some really ****ed up situations. From drugs, affairs, abuse, etc. I've seen it all. Even a guy who didn't accept his wife wanting a better life, didn't trust a thing she did or said, and ended up stabbing her to death. Cutting her throat and practically taking her head off. 
I never looked at any of these other marriages, and compared them to mine. I always said to myself that my marriage was going to stand the test of time. Prove everyone wrong. And I believed it because I didnt have all these problems I was seeing in others lives that ended their marriages. So I thought I was safe.
Boy was I wrong. And I think that's why it hurts as bad as it does. Cause I let myself believe I had a wife that would never do that to me. She was just to nice. She really is. Just, not to me. 
For anyone out there reading all this, I hope you never have to experience the pain I'm dealing with. And to anyone who has, I am deeply sorry. Words alone just don't give this feeling a fair enough description.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

End, you having a bad day. You don't see it now. You will get there and come out the other end better than before. 

I thought you said you two were going to spend time together today? It's time learn how to fill each others needs. That's how you'll heal. That's also why your old marriage went wrong, you didn't know how to fill the needs of each other. I'm not trying to harp, but you will both understand more when you read 'HNHN'.


----------



## turnera

Are you on antidepressants? You need to get your GP to give you 3 months' worth, to help you through these times.

Oh, and randomly ask to see her phone and computer. Like tomorrow, then wait 3 days, then wait a week, then wait 2 days...like that.


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## endoftheroad

I say "so just to be sure, I'm not gonna need to deal with bull**** and questions when I want your phone, email, etc.? Not that it matters, because you have and will delete all the **** you don't want me to see, so I guess it wouldn't matter anyways"
Her "like you deleted all the messages from your sister?"
Me "this was talk to her about lawyer ****. Nothing you need to see. Why are you checking MY ****?"
Her " cause I wanted to see who is talking **** about me"

Why does she feel she has the right? Even if I DID talk ****, or if my sister did, she deserves every word talked about her right now. Especially from my mom and sister. I just don't get it. I don't get any of this ****. 

The only AD I take is paxil. And its not really for a depression as much as to counteract a chemical inbalance. I have vertigo. Think I will go tomorrow or tuesday and try to get something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## endoftheroad

Can't imagine anything they give me making me feel any less depressed. But I guess its worth a shot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> Her "like you deleted all the messages from your sister?"
> Me "this was talk to her about lawyer ****. Nothing you need to see. Why are you checking MY ****?"
> Her " cause I wanted to see who is talking **** about me"


And, if you had read No More Mr Nice Guy, you would have said "WHO cheated here?"


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## endoftheroad

Didn't need to read that to know to say that. Mainly because its the truth. 
She was tired so we didn't get to talk. I wrote down my thoughts, as I plan on continuing to do. Then I tried to goto bed. I laid there for 10min before I just couldn't hold back the tears anymore, and I got back out of bed to go to a part of the house I could cry it out and not wake up the kids. She followed me down and begged me to just come lay with her. This is her way of trying to comfort me. So, I did. 
She can only say sorry. 50 times at least. Which, while she should be, just doesn't make me feel any better. 
I was able to say a little bit of what's on my mind. Enough to let her know that I am NOT going to be able to handle having my feelings put on hold because of the rest of life going on around us. 
I just don't know how anyone can come out of this feeling, feeling positive about life at all. 
I wish I could see a month down the road. Just to see for myself if its going to get any better. 
Damn you time!!
I need to get some motivation and get my ass doing some work today. Anything to get this as far out of my mind for as long as possible. I can't take much more of this. At least, I don't feel like I can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

endoftheroad said:


> Can't imagine anything they give me making me feel any less depressed. But I guess its worth a shot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



AD's don't "make" you happy. They help give you the ability to make yourself happy. Depression creates a cloud of despair that you can't quite see through or think logically or positively.


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## Almostrecovered

also, start exercising, it can help just as much as the AD's


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## tryingtobebetter

end

I am sure others wiser than I will be able to help you more, but i suggest hanging on to the positives. If I understand you right, that she has said sorry over fifty times then I would hang on to that. It may not be helping you now but I think it will in time. Believe that she really means it.

You have had a very rough ride these last weeks and it is going to take time. But you have come a long way in a very short time. 
You have already shown you can be strong. 

Hang on in there. I believe it can come right in the end


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## Shaggy

End - I think as part of R - she needs to stop deleting messages and open up more - and so should you. Both of you should let each other read your texts. If you want to talk about your handling of the R and the A with someone, tell her you are going to do it and be open about it.

I'm not saying she needs to heat/read what you get told - but - the honest part is you both telling each other who and what your talking to them about.


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## turnera

Antidepressants don't change who you are - they just give you a little nudge to get moving again.


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## endoftheroad

I've never tried to stop her from checking anything of mine. Its funny, because until the txt I deleted, I've never had anything on here to hide. Same with email. 
Today has been a better day. I know it had to do with how the night ended. It sucked, but it helped. 
We both have seperate apts wed and then we are both going to discuss what MC we see. 
I know she wants to forget I ever found out. Wishes I didn't. And appears genuine at times. Tonight is a new night. We will see what happens when she gets home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hockey27

But the sexy undies I see in the vicorias secret bag are not for comfort. And I won't ever see them. So who is she impressing? 
She's way too concerned about her tan. Knowing I don't give a f, she has to be trying to impress someone. 

Sorry - if she has the sexy undies, and you are not seeing them, they are for someone else. She has moved on, and you either need to sit down and talk without backing down, or move on. I should talk, I have the same problem...


----------



## FRANC

Hockey27 said:


> Sorry - if she has the sexy undies, and you are not seeing them, they are for someone else.


A little late to the party Hockey...try reading the last 30 pages, LOL.


----------



## endoftheroad

Hopefully your problem doesn't turn out like mine there hockey
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

How ya doin?


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## endoftheroad

Well, I am sitting in the therapist office waiting to vent. Wife appears honest, and let's me know she's sorry, but has little patience when I try to ask for details about the affair. Getting kind of aggravating. But maybe I don't want to know anyways so I'm not pushing it. 
Right now I really need some AD, but can't get an apt to see doc till the 27th. That's awesome. So now I get to self medicate. And all that's doing is letting me get it out of my head for a minute. Then reality punches me in the face and I'm back to dday in my head. 
Like I said, in office waiting now. 35min waiting so far. Hopefully I'll come out feeling better. But I just don't see it. 
Thanks for askin though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## donders

endoftheroad said:


> Well, I am sitting in the therapist office waiting to vent. Wife appears honest, and let's me know she's sorry, but has little patience when I try to ask for details about the affair. Getting kind of aggravating. But maybe I don't want to know anyways so I'm not pushing it.


You're not pushing it because she's impatient and you're trying to convince yourself that you're not pushing it because maybe you don't want to know. 

She already got what she wanted.

Now it has to be about what YOU want.

Accept nothing less.


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## endoftheroad

Honestly, I never wanted to know that they had unprotected sex. But i asked, she said the did not wear protection, and I am questioning if knowing the truth on some of the **** that's in my head is going to change anything. At best, the truth may only make it to where I wont be able to live with what happened. So it may be better that i don't. Focus on seeing if i am going to heal, and she is going to help. If her willingness fades, so will mine. Then I will probably file. Don't want it to come to that, but also don't want to walk away knowing i didn't at least try. 
I can already tell this is going to be a long painful road. I wish I had a say to begin with. I would have taken such a different path.


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## Almostrecovered

I hope you both get tested for STD's 

Do not back down this


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## endoftheroad

Trying to get into doctor but soonest they said was 27th or some ****. 
May end up just going to the er tomorrow morning. Can't take this ****. And my available means of coping and self medicating are just not gonna cut it anymore. 
I do feel better after talking to someone on my own though. But not THAT much. Just nice to have someone agree with pretty much everything I said, and was really surprised at how composed and informed I seemed.
And again, only reason was because I found this site. 
So thank you all who have taken your time to read and reply to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you determined a time limit, at which time you will move on if things don't change? Knowing that will help you feel like you have a plan, and a future.


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## endoftheroad

well, right now i told her i am ready and fully willing to see a MC. but she seems to be more concerned with how she feels atm. I give her 2 weeks to make an appointment for us. Is that unreasonable? If she cant find the energy to contribute, then I think i'm done. I am giving this 100% of my effort. I don't feel she can say the same
So it may be no need for a time limit if it doesn't get beyond seeing a MC for a R soon.


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## tryingtobebetter

thoughts and prayers are with you, end.


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## Almostrecovered

losing weight yet?


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## endoftheroad

Me losing weight? Well, I don't wanna lose anymore since I'm about 6ft tall and weigh 180. I weighed about 210-215 3 months ago. The 30 lbs I've lost was not planned. Now, I just need to not gain that back. Soon enough I plan on exercising. Right now I can't bring myself to do that yet. But its a plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> well, right now i told her i am ready and fully willing to see a MC. but she seems to be more concerned with how she feels atm. I give her 2 weeks to make an appointment for us. Is that unreasonable? If she cant find the energy to contribute, then I think i'm done. I am giving this 100% of my effort. I don't feel she can say the same
> So it may be no need for a time limit if it doesn't get beyond seeing a MC for a R soon.


 That's a perfectly legitimate time limit and a great USE of one. Aside from that, though, it's often recommended that you come up with, say, December 31, and if you aren't seeing real progress, you file for divorce on 1/1. (remember, though, that January is lawyers' busiest month for filing, lol)


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## Almostrecovered

endoftheroad said:


> Me losing weight? Well, I don't wanna lose anymore since I'm about 6ft tall and weigh 180. I weighed about 210-215 3 months ago. The 30 lbs I've lost was not planned. Now, I just need to not gain that back. Soon enough I plan on exercising. Right now I can't bring myself to do that yet. But its a plan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I asked because when you undergo such stress, a lot of us lose weight after DDay, I'm concerned for your health


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## endoftheroad

Almostrecovered said:


> I asked because when you undergo such stress, a lot of us lose weight after DDay, I'm concerned for your health


My health is horrible. I don't eat how i should, and i don't exercise. period. However I know I need to make changes, and I'm trying not to procrastinate 
Thanks for the concern though


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## endoftheroad

As stated above, with the stds. Only she needs checked. She denied me so much as a kiss while this was going on. Wondering if I tell her she has two weeks to get that done or she s outta Here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

How's is it going? Is she increasing her effort to help you heal any? Has she read After the Affair yet?


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## Ansley

endoftheroad said:


> As stated above, with the stds. Only she needs checked. She denied me so much as a kiss while this was going on. Wondering if I tell her she has two weeks to get that done or she s outta Here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't theaten her-make the appt for her. It has to be done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

I told her she's done little and I've done everything. I said if she is serious, then she needs to make an appointment for US. The ill start to consider her has taking any steps. 
I am currently on paxil, welbutrin xl and ativan. I don't even remember falling asleep these last 2 nights. And if I can make it to bed tonight without a breakdown it will be my first in about a month
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

End, if you don't stop to take care of yourself your going to end up in the hospital. Your family needs you to be well. Can you take a day off to sleep? Did you see the Dr.?


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## endoftheroad

been to the er. been to the dr. bout to go crash now. No breakdowns so yay me. tomorrow is a brighter day already. The ER and Dr Visits are how I got the meds I am on.


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## anchorwatch

Glad to hear you can look forward to tomorrow. Stay well.


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## endoftheroad

Just trying to take it one day at a time. The meds definitely help make things better for now. I'm gonna figure out what's the best way for me to work out since I don't, and I smoke, and ill end up hurting myself lol. 
Right now just getting on the bicycle and pedling till I can't pedal anymore. That helps. I'm ready for bed now though!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Do you have a dog?


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## Chaparral

Weight lifting,IMHO, with the counting and concentration required to kepp balance and all, is by far the best. It is really hard not to be able to get your mind off your worries when lifting. The ladies love biceps for whatever reason.

My mind can run wild running or cycling. And the high from lifting is almost immediate and lasts quite a while. I basically lift to keep in "shape" as the years have started to wear.

By the way a recumbant exer bike is comfortable and its easy to read, watch tv, or whatever on one.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> Do you have a dog?


If you're refering to his wife T, that's just rude.................Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood around here.


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## barbiegirl

ENDOFTHEROAD!!!!!!! I apologize FOR putting my input into a situation that i had not read the whole situation first!! that was stupid on my part! And i apologize about that! I spent about 45 minutes reading the forum last night! How OVEERWHELMING this situation is to JUST READ!! i couldnt imagine actually being you!! And i am so sorry that you are going threw all of this! How are things going along?


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## endoftheroad

No dog Cept the wife to speak of.
Riding the bike is descent exercise. Think I'm gonna go get a gym membership. If I'm paying for it I'll make myself go.
And, it does mean a lot to me that I do all I can to try. It's hard as Hell right now, but in the end the worst I can say is that I did all "I" could. Then I can live with myself knowing I did the right thing for me. 
I would not wish this feeling on my worst enemy. Except the OM. Only exception.
I've very little religious belief. Too much bad in my life to give me much reason. At least to this point.
And, she comes off to me as very pretentious. I think she is enjoying the fact that I'm not talking about the affair. She's got a councillor appt tonight. He has her believing I am the only person she has any communication problems with. So she has it in her head that more fault lies on me for where we are at than herself. Whatever makes her feel better I guess. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Ok, then, get a dog! Great stress reliever, great for your self esteem (love you no matter what), and gives you a reason to go out for a walk every day so you get your exercise. Plus girls love to talk to guys with dogs.


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## endoftheroad

Tried the dog. Didn't work for the family. Was an awesome dog too.
Have a treadmill. Gonna get in off the wall and watch a movie or something. Don't own weights. But am going to buy a heavy bag right now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Good, you sound more positive. These activities will give you some much needed relief.


----------



## anchorwatch

End, how are you making out. Hope your feeling and doing better.


----------



## Jonesey

chapparal said:


> If you're refering to his wife T, that's just rude.................Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood around here.


Ha ha . A funny onr to


----------



## endoftheroad

Drugs helping me more than I thought. Not really digging her continued lack of communication, but at this point what can I do. I set my terms. She has less than 2 weeks to get a MC apt. Scheduled, and I've decided to make Dec 31st my day of reckoning. If I don't see enough change by then to warrant staying, I'm done. I want the love and affection I deserve NOW. If she can't provide it to me by the end of the year, I will find it elsewhere. 
Thanks for asking BTW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> Drugs helping me more than I thought. Not really digging her continued lack of communication, but at this point what can I do. I set my terms. She has less than 2 weeks to get a MC apt. Scheduled, and I've decided to make Dec 31st my day of reckoning. If I don't see enough change by then to warrant staying, I'm done. I want the love and affection I deserve NOW. If she can't provide it to me by the end of the year, I will find it elsewhere.
> Thanks for asking BTW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your being more than fair by setting a date. Keep at it, you deserve more from her. Has she done any of the reading you gave her?


----------



## endoftheroad

anchorwatch said:


> Your being more than fair by setting a date. Keep at it, you deserve more from her. Has she done any of the reading you gave her?


Nope, not opened any of the books I bought. 
Day after day I think less and less of her because of what little she has done to reassure me this is what she wants. If it gets worse before getting better at all, I may not make Dec. But that's my goal for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

endoftheroad said:


> Nope, not opened any of the books I bought.
> Day after day I think less and less of her because of what little she has done to reassure me this is what she wants. If it gets worse before getting better at all, I may not make Dec. But that's my goal for now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Married Man Sex Life is not about getting your wife back. It shows you what happend to your marriage. Why she became unattracted to you and how to reclaim your manhood whether it is for your wife, your next relationship or just yourself.

Since you married you have changed, not for the better as a rule.


----------



## endoftheroad

I have not read married man sex life yet. It is the next one I will read. However I'm fairly confident that I have become a better man over the past 20 years, as apposed to the opposite. Now, my wife for sure has stripped me of my manhood. I don't feel very sexual anymore because of her. Even though I know for a fact other women who want me, and would have sex with me, I still feel insecure about what I would have to offer anyone right now. 
Hopefully that will all change for the better. Argued it be with my wife or with someone else. But right now I'm focusing mainly on what I can do to make myself more physically attractive. If its good enough for my wife, then so be it. If not, at least I will be working on myself, and giving myself the best chance at a new life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Reading such books is never a waste. They're published for a reason - they help, even when you think you don't need help.


----------



## endoftheroad

Well, I let her know again yesterday that she needs to do something here. Anything. So far all I see is her wanting to forget about the past and get some normalcy back in her life. Fat chance. 
I said I guess I need to realize that my priority for fixing things is not the same as hers. She didn't like that comment. Truth hurts. We will see over this comming week what, if anything, she does to show she cares more than she has to this point. Hope she figures her **** out. Hell, I hope I can figure **** out for myself. 
The ativan paxil and welbutrin keep my emotions at bay for the most part. Sucks I have to take the ****, but I def needed something more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Good. Keep being honest.


----------



## anchorwatch

endoftheroad said:


> The ativan paxil and welbutrin keep my emotions at bay for the most part. Sucks I have to take the ****, but I def needed something more.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


End, how are you?


----------



## endoftheroad

Well, Not much has changed. She still hasn't made the MC appointment, and I'm pretty sure I don't have much gas left in my tank to go on feeling the way i have felt. 
I stopped taking all but my Paxil. nowhere near as depressed as I was. 
I still have room for her in my heart, But the lack of time she makes to talk to or be with me, knowing its what i want, Is just making me consider not even waiting for end of the year. 
It all still hurts as if it happened yesterday, but I'm more confident that I can still find happiness somewhere else if not here. 
The thing that hurts me the most is what we are going to do to the kids. But they will never feel a lack of love from either of us. So i guess they will be ok. Have been able to find quite a bit to keep me busy and keep my mind off it easier. 
Thx for askin.


----------



## endoftheroad

Oh Yes, Let me not forget this small part.
Saturday she was hosting some party here. Well, she informs me a couple days before "Saturday, after my party, we are going out with my friends" telling me as if it wasnt an option. obviously because she knew it would be wrong for her to ask to go without me.
Well, Saturday comes and we go out with her friends. We goto the first and only bar we went to. And (she says she had no idea) the OM's brother, who she met him through, was there. We sat in the corner of the bar with him and his/her friends. I talked to a few people I've spoken with before (briefly), but for the most part I slammed beers like I was dying of thirst and tried not to be angry that she seemed to have no regard for how this whole scene was making me feel. I ended up going out to her car and cried for about 20 minutes. then tried to pull myself together and go back in. 
At this point I was drunk, and sort of angry at my wife. When I came back in, her friend said she sees me and thought I was going to grab the wife and drag her away by the way i looked. 
Now, I beleieve the friends she said dont know, really Don't know. While that's a relief, it upsets me. Her friends pry think i'm a ****, or anti social, and have no clue why i should have never had to sit there all night. 
We fought on the drive home, which wasn't good. Some things were said, some things were heard, and some things were supposedly imagined. But none of it can be taken back.
Since, I have done everything for myself. Including going out alone sunday night till 230am, and then again monday night to watch football. I have started to be more accepting of what needs to happen. 
No clue of tomorrow, but It's gonna be better than the last. even if just a little bit.


----------



## turnera

You cried because you were a complete BETA and you KNEW it. Good grief.

Are you ready to read any of the books we recommended yet?


----------



## endoftheroad

I am currently listening to audiobook of no more Mr nice guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

I don't remember, but have you exposed the OM ? She cheated on you and you are the only one that is giving any f*cks to this marriage. Don't remain passive. Demand her of the changes you require of her. Else nothing will change


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## Almostrecovered

lingering in limbo is no way to live, I hope you come to a resolution sooner than later


----------



## anchorwatch

End, have you not been able to get any quality time in together? What does she say the issue is? She agreed she chose the marriage, didn't she?


----------



## Santa

You need to get that fire back you had when you first found out! That was some Alpha **** for sure! I was impressed! Don't let your love for her, push you back to being Beta. Nothing will change and it will happen again. 

Demand better for yourself and of her!! 

Get your ass here too!

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


----------



## endoftheroad

Thats the thing. She acts like she made the attempts she feels is necessary to think shes doing her part. She's done nothing. She's never once come up to me and asked how i was doing or tried to talk to ME about it. Or set time aside for US. The only thing we've done together that she set time aside for was to go buy picture frames and other misc. **** we needed.
I've talked to her already this morning, and via text a few times. I've already informed her that I am done trying. Done done done. Not doing it anymore. From now on I am doing whatever I have to do to make me happy. Right now the only things in my life that bring a smile to my face is my kids, football and playing pool. 
I have pool leagues Thursdays, So I can't wait to go whoop some ass. Then I will probably goto the Strip club after. It's the only place i can go now and get the attention I need from another woman. I have one place i go, and one woman I see. And If it costs me hundreds of dollars to feel wanted and needed like she makes me feel, so be it. Touching her, running my fingers through her hair, talking to her, and seeing it on her face that she seems genuine (I'm no fool, it's a stripper!) Makes it worth the money. I plan on going to see her once a week until I find someone that Will make me happy that doesn't break the bank every time i see them. Right now, I'll take what i can get. Cause I miss the feeling of being wanted so bad right now that money does buy me love.


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## turnera

Just tell her you're moving on with a divorce. What both of you are doing isn't fair to the kids.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I PM'd a poster named Decimated to chime in here so hopefully he comes along soon


he was in the exact same spot you are in over a year ago

he suffered in limbo for quite some time before finally filing for D as his wife pretty acted the same way yours is currently, perhaps you should find his thread and get a glimpse of what it can be like in a few months of being a in a holding pattern


----------



## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> Just tell her you're moving on with a divorce. What both of you are doing isn't fair to the kids.


Is what i thought to myself as I looked at my 5yo this morning. None of what has or is going to happen is fair to them. They are going to be the ones scarred with emotions they have never had before. That will probably shape their outlook on life. It makes me very sad.


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## turnera

So you need to just be a martyr and live with a roommate for the next 15 years, right? 

Do you know what will happen to your 5yo? He/she will grow up thinking that no one should be married and, if they do, they should abuse their partner and should expect to be miserable. Because that is ALL he/she will be seeing growing up, and children WILL become JUST LIKE THEIR PARENTS.

All because you're too beta to stand up for yourself.


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## endoftheroad

turnera said:


> So you need to just be a martyr and live with a roommate for the next 15 years, right?
> 
> Do you know what will happen to your 5yo? He/she will grow up thinking that no one should be married and, if they do, they should abuse their partner and should expect to be miserable. Because that is ALL he/she will be seeing growing up, and children WILL become JUST LIKE THEIR PARENTS.
> 
> All because you're too beta to stand up for yourself.


No, That's why I'm saying I can't even wait till end of the year. Which was my initial goal. I've told her where i stand, and I'm not going to change my stance till I am either gone or she does an immediate 180. Otherwise, I need to get out for me. And for the kids.


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## turnera

My bad. I thought you were saying you were just giving up and staying.

Does she know you're planning to leave then?


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## WasDecimated

Endoftheroad, I'm sorry you are going through this. I have scanned through your thread...it's a long one. 

Your situation brought back a flood of emotions and the pain I was living. Our stories have a lot in common except my wife only worked part time and we have 3 kids.

Read my story if you want but I assume you have more important things on your mind at the moment. 

My advice to you is simple...file for divorce. That was the advice I got from most of the good people here over a year ago...and I wish like hell I would have followed it. 

My STBXWW cheated on me for over 1 1/2 years. During that time she was lying to me about everything, treating me like s**t, spending my money...etc. I had 3 "D" days with her before she finally told me she wanted to save our marriage. So I stayed for a year putting 100% effort while she put in 10%. She never told me the whole truth. She seemed to have no empathy for me or the pain I was in. She refused to give up anything like GNO's, spending $ on clothes, transparency with her activities, or even passwords for her computer and phone. Towards the end of the year she told me she still didn't know what she wanted…really? What a waste of time and effort.

She would get defensive whenever I needed to talk about her affair and end up blaming me. I never even got a heartfelt apology from her.

After wasting a year hoping she would wake up, I realized this was complete b******t. I was living in the torturous state of limbo, wasting away emotionally and physically, while she went on with her life as if nothing happened. There were no consequences for her behavior or choices. She got to have an affair for a year and a half, f**k her OM, in my cars, on my dime, and she didn't lose a thing. She got to have a 1 1/2 year erotic vacation while I worked my ass off at work, paid all the bills, and stayed home with our kids when she was out.

The realization hit me that this was no longer the woman I married…and never would be again. I could never trust her in the future and, by the way she was acting, this could and probably would happen again. She had told so many convincing lies over the years that I knew she had become good at it. She knew better now how to cheat without being detected. The fact the she could do something so horrible to me and our children for that long, and then come home and sit with us and watch TV, or climb into bed next to me, without conscience, is something I could not live with....or forget. 

She behaved like some w***e from the Jerry Springer show...and she was my wife? I was supposed to live with that? I don't think so. Everyone makes mistakes...yes. This was not a mistake; this was a series of choices that she made, over and over, for 1 1/2 years. 

She used me for the life I could provide her with, nice home, nice cars, vacations, pay her bills...security while she gave him all of the rewards. Those were My rewards! I was a walking ATM and a doormat...distant plan B. OM got all the benefits.

Please don't waste too much time hoping she will do the heavy lifting. If she isn't doing it now…she never will IMO. You need to focus on yourself, eat good food, workout, sleep and get off any meds if possible. Get strong and do the 180. Prepare for life after D…visualize it. It is looking pretty good to me now. My D should be final in a month.

Ask yourself these questions. 

Do you really think you would be happy with her in the next year? 5 years? 10 to 20 years?

Knowing what she is capable of, could you ever trust her again?

Can you live with the thoughts of her and her OM that will always be etched into your memory? They never go away.

Can you live without knowing all of the details? You will never know everything even if she does open up about some stuff.

Can you live with knowing all of the details? Just in case she does get honest.

Will you ever be able to look at her the same again knowing what she did?

Could you ever respect her again?

Once a cheater...always a cheater? Was this deep flaw always there?

Will you be resentful of her in the future knowing what she did?

Are you willing to dedicate the next 2 to 5 years to just get back to an emotional normal? It may take longer…if it ever happens.

Did she stay for the right reasons or are you plan "B"?

Is she going to change her mind a year from now…5 years from now…etc?

What would your kids respect more and what lesson will they learn from this? Teach them to be strong...or a door mat?

Remember, The choice is yours…not hers. IMO she was living in a fantasy for a year, you need to hit her hard with a heavy dose of reality. I would file. If she wakes up you can always halt the process.


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## Santa

endoftheroad said:


> Then I will probably goto the Strip club after. It's the only place i can go now and get the attention I need from another woman. I have one place i go, and one woman I see. And If it costs me hundreds of dollars to feel wanted and needed like she makes me feel, so be it. Touching her, running my fingers through her hair, talking to her, and seeing it on her face that she seems genuine (I'm no fool, it's a stripper!) Makes it worth the money. I plan on going to see her once a week until I find someone that Will make me happy that doesn't break the bank every time i see them. Right now, I'll take what i can get. Cause I miss the feeling of being wanted so bad right now that money does buy me love.




AND THAT is why men REALLY go to strip clubs, ladies!!


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## Santa

endoftheroad said:


> Is what i thought to myself as I looked at my 5yo this morning. None of what has or is going to happen is fair to them. They are going to be the ones scarred with emotions they have never had before. That will probably shape their outlook on life. It makes me very sad.




No kids are resilent. 

Its more important you show them a positive relationship one day to be a model than the one you have or they will seek out the same as adults. 


You divorce FOR the kids at this point!! I have a 4 yr old and I promise his life will be better if he doesnt see Dad taking **** nonstop and being a doormat! Thats a fact!!


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## endoftheroad

financially, i don't know if D is the best way for me to go atm. But that direction is where i am walking. Thanks Decimated for posting what you did. it definitely helps to know what I'm most likely going to have to look forward to if i do stay. Most of the questions posted I have already asked myself. And I didn't like the answers. 
Especially the forgiving part. Right now, and for a long time im sure, I'm only going to be able to look at her as a two-faced backstabbing liar who risked her family and my frame of mind for something she could have gotten here if she put any effort towards it. 
With every passing day i feel less trapped by the thoughts and images that have been haunting my mind from the moment i wake up, till i go to sleep at night. Just being in the same house as her is now just frustrating. 

On a side note...I went to see the girl I've been seeing at the strip club last night. She is in love with me! She is 15 years younger than me, is hot enough to get any man she wants (i think). she dances for me for free, and gives me money to buy the drinks the bar makes her buy, to let me know that she wants me there and it isn't about the money.
The fact that I've spent so long being unloved and unappreciated. And Made to feel as if there was something wrong with me....then going to a strip club, meeting a fantasy woman, and having HER fall in love with ME? That right there tells me that I could be living a happier life. the things she says to me, the way she looks at me every second I am with her, made me have feelings that I haven't felt since as far back as high school! And we barely know **** about each other! She made me feel better over a period of three days than my wife has made me feel in 12 years. If that isn't a sign I don't know what is. I know, being a stripper, that that's more about lust than anything. But I've had a few lap dances in my life. No stripper has ever treated me like this one has. If its all an act, I'm sold. I told her that If she's just feeding me BS I'll keep paying for it because that's how good she made me feel doing what she does. She assures me she is genuine. And wants to do anything to prove it to me. I mean, How would that make you feel if you were in my shoes?
My life is F'd up enough as it is. I don't see how throwing a stripper in the mix is gonna make things any worse. So far, she's the best thing to happen to me in a long time.


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## anchorwatch

End, you've got enough problems on your plate, don't get involved with a pro. Enjoy your fun and leave it as a fantasy. Believe me that fantasy and her boy friend will empty your wallet.


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## Almostrecovered

step away from the stripper


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## Chaparral

Have you read Married Man Sex Life Yet and started the MAP plan?


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## turnera

Whoa! WTH are you doing? Good grief, man. Don't go there.

If your kids showed up at that place (God forbid) and saw you there with that woman, right now, how would they feel?


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## turnera

btw, that counts as an EA. You know that, right? YOUR feelings are now clouded with PEA. meh


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## Chaparral

turnera said:


> btw, that counts as an EA. You know that, right? YOUR feelings are now clouded with PEA. meh


While there may have been no penetration, I'm guessing there is enough to call this an ea/pa.


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## Almostrecovered

even though the relationship is commercial this has crossed the line into revenge affair for sure


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## warlock07

Are you out of your f*king mind ? What you are doing is stupid on so many levels. Leave about feeling loved, you are putting yourself in a very dangerous position, financially emotionally and whatever else there is. 


Your eyes are closed to reality. Nothing we say here will matter. You are in self destructive phase. Do you have a close friend or a brother you can talk to ? Or your father ? Talk to some close friends immediately.


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## turnera

Has it occurred to you that you are being set up as a Sugar Daddy?

This is her JOB.


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## endoftheroad

Yes, I'm aware that doing anything beyond what I've already done with her would be way wrong. And if I do talk to this woman again, I won't hesitate to let my wife know. Nothing that I am doing is out of revenge. I'm not trying to get back at my wife for what she did. I haven't had a woman make me feel like this woman has made me feel in at least a decade. So its hard to just blow that off, even though I most likely will. 
I intend on taking the next step. Which for me right now will probably be separation. I need to get out of the house. And I really need to figure out the best way to approach my kids and let them know its nothing to do with them. I am too aware of the long term effects this could have on them. Especially the 5yo. They are the sole reason I've stuck around this long. 
No worries about the stripper. I will take the advice given to me and stay clear. For now at least. As much as I don't want to. Remember, she doesn't want my money. She gives it back to me. Or gave me her money to make it LOOK like I was paying for her drinks. So I don't think she's going to take me for my money. 
Again though, I will take the advice given and steer clear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> Remember, she doesn't want my money. She gives it back to me. Or gave me her money to make it LOOK like I was paying for her drinks. So I don't think she's going to take me for my money.


 :rofl:

*Sugar daddy* is a slang term for a man who offers money or gifts to a younger person in return for companionship or sexual favours

You've obviously talked enough that she can say she's in love with you, so she knows your story. She knows you're vulnerable. She knows you're missing out on SF (why else are you there?). She knows you think she's gorgeous. She knows you're easy (you came back, didn't you?). 

It's the ones who come back that they target. Make them feel special. Get them hooked. Make them think they're loved and wanted, which every good hooker knows is how you please a man. Make 'sacrifices' to show you how much she cares about you, like using her own money so she has a reason to spend time with you. And then, when you are just DYING to be with her, she'll start telling you about the phone bill she can't pay. The car that broke down and she had to use her rent money to fix the car so now she's gonna be kicked out if she can't come up with $1000 this week. How she WANTS to leave this awful business and just settle down with a wonderful man, but how would she pay her bills? She can't afford to work at a 7-11 and still pay her bills. Oh really? Would you be willing to help out with the rent? Sure, you could come over whenever you want, I love you!

Until she doesn't.


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## endoftheroad

If you think I should tell the wife already about the whole stripper situation say so. I AM trying to do the right thing. More for me now than previously. I just feel like I deserve something good in my life for a change. This stripper provided me feelings I did not think I would ever feel again. Which in turn gave me back some hope that I'm not as bad of a catch as I've been made to feel. 
BTW, this girl has only danced for 2 weeks before I met her. Her sister works there and talked her into it for the cash. She doesn't like it, and won't do it long. Not that that matters. But I would have to say 2 weeks doesn't make her a professional hustler. Which was one of the reasons I felt like I did. If she was in fact a seasoned pro, I would not believe for one second she meant the things she said. 
Just had to toss that out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

endoftheroad said:


> If you think I should tell the wife already about the whole stripper situation say so.


Are you saving your marriage or walking away from it? If the former, tell her. If the latter, it's none of her business.


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## Almostrecovered

You are looking to get your "needs" met from someone else that isn't your wife, if that isn't the very definition of an affair I don't know what is. And if you don't want to view as it revenge I beg to differ, perhaps you are doing it to get your wife angry or get back at her but I strongly suspect you are doing it since you feel justified to get what you want due to what your wife has done to you. If there's any indication that your marriage is over, this is it. 

Do the right thing, you are better than this


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## endoftheroad

The latter. She had more than her fair share of chances to even begin to make things better with our marriage. Not gonna hang in limbo and wake up/goto sleep crying anymore because of how my wife makes me feel. I can at least be able to go on knowing that "I" did what I could/should. It just didn't matter enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

endoftheroad said:


> If you think I should tell the wife already about the whole stripper situation say so. I AM trying to do the right thing. More for me now than previously. I just feel like I deserve something good in my life for a change. This stripper provided me feelings I did not think I would ever feel again. Which in turn gave me back some hope that I'm not as bad of a catch as I've been made to feel.
> BTW, this girl has only danced for 2 weeks before I met her. Her sister works there and talked her into it for the cash. She doesn't like it, and won't do it long. Not that that matters. But I would have to say 2 weeks doesn't make her a professional hustler. Which was one of the reasons I felt like I did. If she was in fact a seasoned pro, I would not believe for one second she meant the things she said.
> Just had to toss that out there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



No, don't tell your wife about the stripper at this point. Just leave her (stripper) alone for now.

Someone posted this on another thread:

Jerrod Niemann - Lover, Lover - YouTube

Read MMSL yet?


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## endoftheroad

Desimated said he was putting in 100% while his wife put in 10% I don't feel like my wife has put 5% of her effort towards fixing things. I've let her know how I feel, and that hasn't changed things. So, why would I stay and try to salvage something so broken?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## endoftheroad

Yeah, in a nutshell I am done. Working on my best exit strategy. Sooner rather than later. My kids aren't dumb. They see and hear things. I don't want to continue to put them through this. I don't want them to think what happens at home is how its supposed to be. So like I said, what's best for them is where I'm at with this. They are all I care about in the family I thought I would have forever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

endoftheroad said:


> Desimated said he was putting in 100% while his wife put in 10% I don't feel like my wife has put 5% of her effort towards fixing things. I've let her know how I feel, and that hasn't changed things. So, why would I stay and try to salvage something so broken?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


not saying that, but I am saying to do the right thing and end it before you do such things


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