# Confused, Angry and hopeless



## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't know where to start, i'm not use to this type of thing and am a little uncomfortable letting my problems out to everyone, but here goes....
I have been married for 15 years, i have 3 beautiful children that mean the world to me.......My marriage was Perfect up until the children came,(10 yrs ago)....Looking back i now realize that is when it all went wrong....I will try to make this short... when the kids came along, i started to notice a change in my wife,(well i always saw this but just not as bad) she had a serious issue with anger and a temper...My poor kids couldnt do anything right in her eyes, and all she did was scream at them, for simple things....there just kids, there gonna spill milk and make a mess...but to her they should walk a line....during all this, i was the one who supported the family, she worked a job with limited income, and i payed 90 percent of the bills....i picked the kids up, had her supper ready, gave kids a bath and put them to bed, while she came in from work and screamed or complained about everything..........I put up with this, because i love her, I do, and i came from a bad breakup when i was a kid, and i didnt want anything to do with a divorce, i wanted the package, the wife the family, everything.....I begged her to stop , get help, and she always said she would change, and she would for about 3 weeks.....fast forward to our 3rd child, 2 yrs ago....we were both surprised at this but glad, after the child, she dropped alot of weight,(but was still screaming and carrying on), and started acting different, so she went to the beach for a weekend with the girls, and yes she met some guy....she swears she didnt do anything intimate, but kissing or anything was wrong to me........so i threaten to leave, but decided to stay, mainly for my kids.......things werent rite after that, because i couldnt forget the years of mental abuse she had put me and kids through...........we bought a new house after that and things were ok, until now.......yep she did it, found her a new guy for the past 11 months and slept with him.....i am completly devastated, it is sick, but i do love this woman, i just have so much anger at her and feel i can never NEVER trust her again.........she wants to work this out but i am so scared.....I love my family.....sorry for the long post....any advice?


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## wantingmore (Nov 24, 2008)

I think staying together for the kids hurts the kids more in the long run. They are being subjected to all of the yelling and abuse too.

If you want to stay with her, I would say there needs to be counseling, for both of you and her alone. and probably the kids.

It will take a while to get the trust back.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

You must be a generation X'er like me, kids come first at all cost.

You have done them a diservice by allowing her to verbally abuse these children.

If I were you I would get a good lawyer and talk to him that you MUST have custody of the children, then file for divorce.

I would move on if my wife was that way, there are better women out there.


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

Yes.

First of all, I am truly sorry that this is happening to you. I recently have found that my wife has had an affair as well. 

First of all, if there is no trust, then there is no relationship... cut and dry. So the first thing that you have to do is to search yourself and see if you would ever be able to trust her again. Consider that variables may change... Assume that she gets into an anger management class and things soften up around the house. Can you see yourself trusting her again under ideal circumstances? If not, then it is time to move on.

I had to face that issue as well 2 weeks ago. my wife cheated and slept with another man. I had to decide whether or not I could ever trust her again. I believe that she is even now trustworthy. I believe in my heart that she will never do it again.

All of that said, (and I hate to make all of the women here mad with this) but YOU now hold the cards. YOU have rights and we live in a society that no longer awards children to the mother regardless of cause.

What you are describing here is a clear cut case of abuse. understand that abuse takes many forms, and that beating or hitting is only one form of abuse.

You should strongly recommend anger management. YOU have the ability to take the children and leave the abusive relationship. You can file for custody, YOU can sue for child support. Gone are the days when a woman automatically gets custody based on her gender.

All of this leads to the fact that she needs to get help. First, though, she is going to have to see that SHE has a problem... No different than alcohol, drugs, porn, or any other addiction.

until she sees that she has a problem, nothing will change. maybe it would take her marriage ending, or the possibility of it ending to open her eyes and to make her do some "self-reflection" to be able to see and admit the problem.

Good luck, and please do keep us up to date.

PS. Welcome to the forum. I am sure you will find your stay here to be a pleasant one. it has really helped me, and I hope that you can find your answers as well.


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

moogvo, thanks alot for the reply, well thanks to all of the replies...i left My house and My kids 4 days ago, because i cant take bein there acting as if nothing is wrong.....she should have left yes, but she has No where to go....I am not an evil person, and i cant just kick my kids mother out on the street....i do not fear for my kids with her, she does love them, she doesnt physically abuse them.... she has stopped alot of her screaming and she is starting therapy this week.....I dont trust her.....and i dont want to be a 50 year old man, and go through a divorce......she swears she loves me, and wants to work it out......this is going to sound odd, but i find myself blaming me, because i did turn off to her a couple of years ago, but she made me, by all the mental and emotional abuse...I asked her to get help, and she felt embarrassed too....So much has been done, that i dk what to do........And yes, gen x, that's me.......Everyday of my life is for my kids!


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## lostluv (May 12, 2008)

First let me say welcome to the forum. Secondly, I'm sorry you are going through this. Now for the part that may make me unpopular.

If you don't trust her why did you leave your kids with her? I understand you say she is not physically abusing them, but she is still abusing them. The yelling and screaming is mental and emotional abuse that can be harder to get past in later years than the physical abuse could be. With you not in the home who is there to protect them if she goes on one of her tirades? I understand she is their mother, but from what you have said she needs to prove herself before she is trusted with their care. If leaving is what you need to do then in IMO you need to take the kids with you or she needs to be the one to leave.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

i am on a similar path right now and it is gut wrenching to say the least. i will say if i find out my wife has cheated i will not be near as forgiving as you seem to be. i will figuratively hit her right in the mouth from a legal standpoint. my problems are too numerous to list but it all leads to the same place. good luck and hang tough.


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

i understand why you would ask that, and Beleive me, I would NEVER leave them in a situation to where they are being harmed in anyway.....i left, yes, but i am there everyday when they get home from school. We both are, my wife and i....she works and so do i.....i stay there with her and the kids, and i put them to bed, then i leave and stay the night somewhere else.......they know something is going on but think i am going to work early......i dont want to tell them until i know for sure what is going to happen......my wife is in a state of shock, and doing everything rite that she can, she is begging me not to go....my oldest is old enough to talk to me, we are very close, and i ask her how it is when im not there, she assures me it is fine....(she use to tell me when it wasnt so i beleive her).....to give a little credit to my wife, she has been doing much better over the past 8 months, but i just found out 2 weeks ago about the affair......this is the problem, she is doing better but she has also been talking to another man for eleven months......doing good deeds but sleeping with someone else behind my back, It just doesnt add up....SERIOUSLY CONFUSED!!!!


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

you are kidding right???

she has been verbally abusing them for years and you are letting your kids stay there....


What if it were a Man abusing these kids, screaming and yelling, etc? what would you tell the woman??? To LEAVE..

Man up, not for yourself, but for the kids...

NOW she is getting counseling??

Sure I yell at my kids, when they deserve it.... so does my wife....when they deserve it. You know pulling his sisters hair, jumping off the couch, etc.


Soory, but if it were me, I would kick her out, if she has no where to go, well she should ahve thought about that before she slept around.


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

You are right, i must look at myself and question why i did allow this to go on........Man up??? actually i like that, thanks for the momentum builder...


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

I really don't want to sound like a jerk..

But I just see you being a carpet and she is walking all over you. If you love your children then stop the abuse, that is what a True man does, PROTECT his children, no matter who the offender is. A true mother would do the same if it were the father abusing the children.

CHILDREN come first, no exceptions, no need to screw up their lives becuase you can't handle your own.

Do you have family around that can help out?

I only say this becuase I have a co-worker that verbally abused his daughter and it is truly sad to see him talk that way to her, the wife divorced him and he actually ended up giving up his legal rights to the girl.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

when you ask for advice on a forum, and there is a limited amount of general info given about your issue, then you will hear several types of responses. i'm with GAsoccerman on this one, she doesn't deserve you. start the process


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## LucyInSC (Dec 23, 2008)

Welcome from me too. This is a great place to vent. The people here will be honest with you. I agree that your wife doesn't deserve you and your children's well fair should come first. Good luck to you. Sounds like you are in for a long tough journey.


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

Well... there may be another alternative... She has begged you not to go. A couple of questions...

First, have you ever left before?

Second, are the two of you still communicating?

Third, is she STILL asking you not to go/come back?

I can tell you from experience that when a marriage starts to fail, the kids will take a back seat to the issues at hand. You say that you trust her to care for the kids, but think about this, the added stress of her situation will make her act and say things that would be typically out of character even for her. She will take out her anger on whoever is around.

The fact that you left, and that you left the kids behind kind of puts you over a barrel from a legal standpoint. In most states, if she wants to, she can charge you with abandonment, whether or not you are coming around or visiting.

If she cheated, you had the full right to invite her to pack her belongings and leave.

here is my advice, and you had better think about this before she "wises up" to what rights you have just signed over to her by leaving:

If you are still communicating with her, this is the best time to iron out the wrinkles of the mess that has been made by your leaving...

If she asks you to come back or not to leave her, you take control and say "Ok, I will come back home, but I will have my own quarters and we will not share the same room until you have earned my trust back that you are on-board with our marriage and our family. 

once you are back in the home, the dynamics change considerably. What ever you do, get your ass back in that house and stay there. ideally, you would make it her idea for you to come back.

Once you are there, you both have to air your laundry and get all of the cards of truth onto the table for all to see. No secrets, no lies.

You tell her how you feel about her, tell her what you want for your collective future and find out what her feelings are. This is no longer the time for placing blame or making accusations. You calmly talk about the discrepancies of the marriage and address them one-by-one.

Tell her about the concerns that you have with respect to her temper. Use sentence starters like "I'm angry because I feel like X, Y and Z...) again, don't place the blame but you need to let her know that in order for this marriage to work that there are things that you BOTH will have to work on. 

When she tells you what her concerns are, even if you don't believe they are founded concerns, LISTEN to her, and more importantly, LOOK like you are listening to her. To a woman, the feeling that she has been heard is a great big deal... even if you have no interest in what she is saying.

Now, I am going to give you the secret to "looking like you are interested and listening", even if you don't give a rip about what is being said. (and I know this sounds callous, but this is a tactic that will bail you out in many areas of life)

When she says to you, something like: "You never take out the garbage and you let it sit around here until there are flies coming out of it" (Just an example... I am not saying that you do that)

Then you reply by saying "So what you are saying is that you don't feel like I am doing as much as I could be doing to help and to keep things clean."

What you do is hear what she says, paraphrase it and say it back to her beginning with something like "So you feel like..." or "I understand that you think..."

Sometimes, you have to repeat the key words like "Garbage" or "Flies", other times you can generalize. It all depends on what the topic is.

If she likes certain things that you share sexually, but has an issue with one particular thing, you wouldn't say "So you are telling me that the sex is bad". No, that isn't what she said. Be careful not to over-generalize."

Then when it is your turn, you can tell her (and remember to use ME words here) "I am feeling hurt because I see the anger that comes up in you when X, Y, and Z happens... Etc.)

Good luck again.

~Moog


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

After some consideration, i think it is best that i go back and stay there, in different quarters of course, until i can figure out what to do... The next person who leaves wont be me......You made some good points about abandonmant, and that is something i told her, im not abandoning you and she agreed i wasnt..........But in the heat of a divorce, i can easily see her lawyer standing up and saying, Mr...........you want us to beleive she isnt fit to have custody and yet you left them alone with her for x amount of days.........Thanks for the advice, i will keep you informed, maybe it will help someone else....


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

good luck and be strong for your kids, and if she gets out of hand with the kids, stand between her and them...and calmly tell her to either go to another room and chill out, or go to bed, but to stop yelling at the children.

be a man


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

"Update"

It has been a week since i posted, but i have been viewing some other post just to try and get perspectives. I must say i read some and think, what in the **** is he thinking, why can't he see it. I can only ask myself is this the way i am being perceived.
I went back home after my last post. There is no anger (well me sumtimes) and no fighting. Very calm conversations, no outburst on her part, she is really doing everything she can. All she does is cry, all the time, and tells me how sorry she is and will spend the rest of her life making it up to me. She has lost probably 15 lbs so is about 135, and (i'm a man and she looks great.) I bring that point up because, i know i want to be there with my family, but honestly, i don't see me being able to be sexual with her again. Have you ever loved somebody and you wanted to hold them and be with them, but you couldnt because everytime you tried, the awful thoughts of what she did comes back. I don't know if i wll ever let that go, at this point i can say i can not move past it. She started her counseling last week and goes again next week, It would have been so much easier if she would have just walked through the door and said i don't love you anymore. I could handle that, but why this burden is on my heart and my feelings is just plainly unfair. At this point, my marriage has a 30 percent chance of surviving, i'm not very optimistic.......


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

It's obvious you still care for her, but do you LOVE her?

Or is it you are just worried about the change, the kids, and everything else. If your relationship truly doesn't recover intimately, the chances of a repeat performance by her are very high and you will be back in the same boat before long.


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

Do i love her? Yes i do. Am i in love with her? Now, i dk. There is a differnce and i understand that.

To me marriage is alot more than just about two people. of course if kids are involved, but beyond that.
Your question about change is something that i am trying to deal with. It affects so many different people. After almost 15 years of marriage, a divorce means losing much more than just your spouse. So yes i am scared of change, financial issues,the kids, everything. But the first step i am trying to take is realizing that this is about Me, if i cant be happy then i have to accept all that comes with it. It's not easy.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I don't think it's unusual to not wanting to be sexual with her after finding out about her infidelity. The thoughts are fresh right now and the history with her anger on top of it doesn't help. This is how you feel today and it may not change. On the other hand, if this has been a serious wake-up call, you may begin to see a real change in her and begin to like what you see and want to be part of her life again. I would say give it some time and see if it helps you to start thinking differently...if she truely does change you may be able to begin to put the past in the past. I think time is the only thing you can give right now and there's nothing wrong with that, just don't give up w/o giving time a chance to see if you can move past this. Good luck to you--I know it's hard.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

I agree. 

There is nothing wrong with taking some time. It's obviously a huge decision. Let her know that you just don't know yet. You will be around, but this doesn't guarantee that it's not going to be over. It's just too fresh. You need some time to let it soak in, let you figure some things out before you can make any type of decision.


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

It has almost been a month since i found out, no not a long time, but i would have thought by now i could have at least seen some change in me. I do see a change in her, yes, but i asked her 5 yrs ago on numerous occasions to change so why now. After all i have been through, NOW you want to change, after all the bs and hurt i have been through. Why is now so important, and a month and a half ago it wasn't. I do feel i need to get out of their, at least for now. I need to see if it is still in me to want this, and being there everyday really doesn't help things. We are just going through the motions of everyday life and i can't pretend. Is leaving to figure myself out a bad idea? That's what i want to do.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

No, not a bad idea at all!!!

But, what would you do about the kids?


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

Your a real saint. You have your priorities in order but it sounds like your wife knows how to manipulate you.
sometimes you have been in a bad relationship for so long the line between healthy and unhealthy gets skewed. You would probably realize it in your next relationship.
Nobody has the right to telll you to leave. That is a decision you alone must make.
One thing for sure is you are doing everything for your kids sake and that is great. If that means being in the house for them is better then being away although your relationship sucks then so be it.
Just by leaving it may have scared your wife into better behavour but the problem is people mostly go back to their old patterns when the fear leaves.
I can relate to you a lot. I have two small kids and an unhappy relationship although my wife isnt crazy like yours. She is a great mom but a lousy wife.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

Another thing I want to add because it's really helped me.

After all these years of frustration dont you just feel that you want a happy life. She has been a burden on you for a long time. You can still love your kids and be a great dad even if your not there all the time. Think of your kids when they grow up. What they will remember is how much you loved them. They will understand.

It's the change you fear. That's normal.


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

Brad, you sound alot like my situation. Minus the screaming(which has stopped). yes i am unhappy, and yes i wonder if all these years i could have been happier, I keep telling myself that i can't stay just for the kids anymore. I mean that, i can't. I don't know your situation, but if i can offer any advice to keep you from having to deal with what i am, let me know. Sometimes we ingnore the warning signs, just to keep the family together. I know this very well.


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

One more thing, the change... Yes i fear this very much...Everyone get's into a routine of life, and 15 years of a routine is hard to change. Honestly, if she would just leave, give me the kids, give me the house and leave me for good with no contact then i would be fine....I know, not a chance....


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

fatherof3 said:


> Brad, you sound alot like my situation. Minus the screaming(which has stopped). yes i am unhappy, and yes i wonder if all these years i could have been happier, I keep telling myself that i can't stay just for the kids anymore. I mean that, i can't. I don't know your situation, but if i can offer any advice to keep you from having to deal with what i am, let me know. Sometimes we ingnore the warning signs, just to keep the family together. I know this very well.


I dont want to hijack your thread. This is about you. but you are right I feel our situations are somewhat similar. My wife is a master manipulator. she knows how to shed a tear, or make me feel like I am the one who did her wrong. It gets my head spinning. But just being in the same house allows me to see my precious kids. So I can totally relate to you in the sense it's very difficult and feels somewhat selfish to want to dump my wife.


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## Flutterlashes (Jan 8, 2009)

I really feel for you. It is so difficult to think logically if you're hurting. I think that the fact that you are capable of loving a woman to this extent means that you also deserve to be loved by a woman in the same way. I would just advise that you NEVER abandon your children to her, equally NEVER let them get away with bad behaviour because things have not worked out in the relationship. (Guilt can do that and it can confuse or hurt the children and sometimes it teaches them how to manipulate situations.) Stay a strong father figure for them, but I believe that you deserve a new start, with someone who will care for you. I hope that you don't look back in years to come feeling bitter because you have made decisions that made you unhappy because you acted them out for what you considered were 'the right thing'. Your children will know if you are miserable and I can't imagine that is good for them. If YOU are happy, then you will be able to be a better father for your children than if you are unhappy. I hope that helps. Good luck. xx


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

Happiness, really what is that.... Is it staying here with the kids so i can be there with them everynight, and me accept things and not be happy. Or is it me leaving them, finding someone to make me happy and seeing them every other week and some other man having a say in raising my kids. What a dilemma.... Is there anyone out there who has been through a divorce with kids, that can say everyone is much happier now?


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## Flutterlashes (Jan 8, 2009)

Yes, it can work. My mother and father divorced when I was two years old. If both parents love the children, it is a bond neither will break. Children don't deserve to be witness to two people that they love living a lie. Take your time to think things through. It can only be your decision. You can be happy, you sound as though you have a heart of gold and so you are one step away from the rest of your life. I wish you well. x


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

You are assuming that a divorce means seeing them on the weekends. Would you not be willing to go for primary custody? You CAN do that.

My advice to you is do NOT leave that house without meeting with a good lawyer first, so that you can understand the legal ramifications of being the one to move out.

Your wife may be behaving calmly and docile right now, but you know she has a dark side and you can bet that, if divorce occurs down the line, that dark side of her will come out full-force. You want to make sure you don't give her legal ammunition against you.

I know it's hard to think about these legal matters in the midst of your problems and in your emotional state, but you don't have a choice.


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## Flutterlashes (Jan 8, 2009)

I apologise if it sounded as though my message was assuming. I certainly did not intended to be. I was merely trying to give a little comfort to a situation which is very bleak when you're in the thick of it. I would never suggest that anybody do anything without a clear mind and good legal representation. It is critical to make the right decision, and it is not the same situation for everyone. However, that is not to say that you cannot find a light at the end of the tunnel. You can find your smile again. It really is possible, and I am living proof. x


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

I cant beleive what just happened....I was prying her for more information about her affair and yeah, she tells me to stop talking about it, it's over it was a mistake and walks off....Inconsiderate *****. It just proves to me she didnt give a ****in the first place. Steve somebody sings it, Some fools never learn.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

fatherof3 said:


> I cant beleive what just happened....I was prying her for more information about her affair and yeah, she tells me to stop talking about it, it's over it was a mistake and walks off....Inconsiderate *****. It just proves to me she didnt give a ****in the first place. Steve somebody sings it, Some fools never learn.


Yep, it's a simple defense technique by her. Avoidance and redirection. Avoid talking about it and attempt to make the other person wrong for bringing it up. As far as why she did it, it could be guilt, could be contempt, who knows.

If this is going to work, you will need to do some very hard things. You need to make 100% sure she knows that she needs to be 100% open and honest, or it's over... 

How has she been with the kids lately? 

How has she been with the kids. Any change in that?


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

The kids, she has done very well, and i do see that she is trying very hard but i shoot her down alot. It's me, after all that i have been through, i either can't get past it or i won't let myself. I honestly don't know how anybody can just move on past something like this. The pictures in my head are gut wrenching. I know this is bad to say, but in my eyes will she ever suffer enough. I can't expect her to try and try and me just stay cold as ice to her. Maybe i'm trying to make her leave me.. I dk...


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

One more thing, i sent her boyfriend an email and i told her i did. She acted like she was a little mad at me for doing that. That hurts. btw he was engaged when they started this and has gotten married during the affair.....Should i tell his new wife? I think my wife is worried i will ruin his life... I could care less... I don't know why she would want to protect him, when she says their was nothing to the affair, no feelings etc....


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

Ruining his life and making her suffer, while it sounds good now, won't do CRAP for you in the bigger picture. I could see talking to him to try to figure out what happened, but even then that rarely will provide any help at all.

And what did you send in the email and did he respond?

What do you mean when you say that you shoot her down a lot?

It's hard to just move past. It will take a while. But you have to decide if you really want this to work or not. And I'm not saying you should want to. Maybe you don't want this and you want to go, then go. BUT... IF you want to make things work, you have to make some sacrifices in this too. YOU are going to have to let her in a little. Stop giving her the cold shoulder. Stop shooting her down. Because all you do is just push her away. You may think she deserves the suffering, and she might, but what will eventually happen is that she will come to the conclusion that although she was the one that was wrong, you will never recover and she doesn't want to live like that anymore, and just give up trying and walk out the door herself.


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## fatherof3 (Jan 13, 2009)

Gpr
The email i sent him was just to ask some questions, well a little more than that but he responded. His response was what i wanted to hear, he pretty much told me everything, which is all i really wanted from her.One thing she did tell him is our relationship was over and we were just living in the same house....Hmmm, i didnt' know that....

Shoot her down? Like i said before she is most of the time quite emotional and tries to get close to me but i won't let her....i just tell her to stop... 

We have started a seperation agreemant and i feel like right now for me it is the only way. It may sound crazy but i kinda need to lose her to ever have a chance again, i hope that makes sense....


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## Junebug (Dec 7, 2008)

I am betting that the guilt and worry over the other man's new wife finding out, now that you know, is pretty good payback to start for the other guy. He probably thinks every time the phone rings or she is in a bad mood that you contacted her and let her know what was going on.

Sounds like you are on the right track with a seperation. I don't always think it's best to stay together for the kids. They are a lot more resiliant than we think and they know a lot more than we think they do. I'm sure they feel the tension in the house. 

My husband had a lot of anger issues and he got on medication which helped him deal with everything so much better. But it only works if they want to change and admit they have a problem. It helped for awhile, but I had a really hard time getting over the anger and the sadness we have lived in for the last 17 years to be able to believe he had changed. I kept waiting for him to snap. Now he's slowly going back to his old ways and has quit taking the meds. So much for wanting it to work! 

Good luck with it, Fatherof3... from a Mom of 3.


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