# Confront or Not?



## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Need advice.

Wife and I have separated briefly in the fall and then got back together in January. This weekend she told me she still doesn't feel we are working and she moved to parents again, likely for good. This is tough but not the reason for my post.

I won't explain how or why, but I have the password for her credit card online account. This past weekend she told me she was going to visit her grandparents, leaving around 4 on Friday and back Sunday night. Sunday evening she sent me an email detailing her feelings and letting me know she wasn't coming home and would be at her parents. 

For numerous reasons I checked her credit card charges and discovered she made numerous restaraunt charges in our city Friday evening, saturday and Sunday. Based on her timeline and texts she sent me, she should not have been in the city when these were made as her GPs are 5 hours away.

I dont know if she is cheating and I'd like to think she isn't. She could have just as easily stayed with a friend and needed. a weekend alone but its eating me up not knowing why she lied. I dont know what I did to deserve that, especially since our new goal after reuniting was better communication. 

If she is cheating then I guess it doesn't change much since I am tired of being jerked around and ready to just move on and she seems to have concluded she is unhappy. We love each other and she is my best friend. We have been married 3.5 years but together for almost 13.

Should I just cut my losses and move on or should I ask about the weekend? I hate not knowing why she lied to me, but I'm not sure I should even bother confronting her.

Thoughts?


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

motl said:


> For numerous reasons I checked her credit card charges and discovered she made numerous restaraunt charges in our city Friday evening, saturday and Sunday. *Based on her timeline and texts she sent me, she should not have been in the city when these were made as her GPs are 5 hours away*.
> 
> *I dont know if she is cheating* and I'd like to think she isn't. She could have just as easily stayed with a friend and needed. a weekend alone but its eating me up not knowing why she lied. I dont know what I did to deserve that, especially since our new goal after reuniting was better communication.
> 
> ...


She is cheating...

You do know...

You love her, she does NOT love you.

She will lie to you, but either way it is time to start a new life. Your wife is gone. You may be able to R but your wife HAS TO BE REMORSEFUL. She is definitely cheating. I think she just got tired of you and wanted a new toy. It happened to me. I just want you to realize that she is throwing your life away but you don't have to let it be like that. Take the opportunity to work on yourself, get fit and healthy and start looking forward to a new life.

I am sorry you are here brother. We have seen it all and can give you good advice, but you have to realize. Your wife is cheating. She would have told you that she stayed at her friends house. You may want to catch her in 'adultery' if your state in a fault state.

Do not confront her. The marriage is about to get very businesslike to you want to consult a lawyer and possibly a PI if proving infidelity will mean a damn in the state you live in.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Obviously this bothering you...and well it should...she is lying and you owe it to the integrity of this marriage to call her out on it... you have nothing to lose...I would call her, and tell her exactly where she has been and tell her that she owes to you to be at least be honest as this marriage comes down...and then i would i also mention that you are taking her favorite things and donating them to Good Will...as a nice parting gift...hang up the phone...watch what happens next.


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## TimesLikeThese (Sep 13, 2012)

I think MovingAhead has the right idea. She is most likely cheating and she will lie to you. If you want to confront her you would need more information, but your best bet is to simply agree with her leaving and do everything you can to make sure you are in a strong position come divorce.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

I wouldn't confront yet. Before confronting, I would first get irrefutable proof and expose. In order to get irrefutable proof, I would hire a PI, check cel phone records, FB, email, etc…
Once you have that, I would expose nuclear style to the following: everyone you know, everyone your wife knows, everyone OM knows (all friends and family), all social groups, church and Pastor if applicable, your wife's place of employment, OMs place of employment, all of your neighbors, all of your wife's neighbors, and all of OMs neighbors. After nuclear exposing, I would confront your wife.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Depends on what you want to do?

A) play private investigator and dig deeper.

B) quit being a dork and thank yourself for looking now and move on.

C) Beg and plead that she comes back and stays.

If you are not married then walk away from it clean and clear and start looking at bettering yourself and finding out who you are and where and what you want from life, if married, then go for no fault D if possible or just an easy out.

If you go for option A, be sure you actually want to know, and have good reasons too as it "might" hurt!!

or option B, much better idea, get your self together and have fun before getting serious again.

Option C, this is douche bag mode and should get you b!tch slapped rond your block!!!

Good luck.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Does it even matter in your state, and if so does being separated mean more in your state? In mine it is legal to date and fraternize as long as you are legally separated (legally being the key word here, as to count it must a legal document filed with the court). So unless you can prove that she was doing this prior to the separation, it may make little difference in anything.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

The answer to confronting is most likely NO. Soft confronts like this are recipes for disaster.

1) decide if you have enough to decide she has cheated. Hint 95% chance yes.
If you need to be sure Ill post below.
2) If you live in a states where adultry matters... See below
3) If you have enough to decide she did cheat but want to Reconcile follow recommendations for TRUE reconciliation. Hint you dont have it.
4) If you decide she has cheated and it does not matter in your state then file divorce.

Standard evidence gathering.

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history!


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

She is cheating. 

If you want more details follow what WL has stated here. 

If it doesn't matter at this point make a plan and stick to it. It helped me to write out my goals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks for the advice.

I think the marriage is over either way. When she left in the fall I think it was mostly her who needed the time to think. Since she has returned I think both of us now believe things aren't working. I would have preferred we talked about it to see about other options to make it work (or mutually end it) instead of getting that email like I did. Either way, I am ready to move on.

I live in Canada and dont care about cheating for legal matters. When separated before I spoke to her about how we would divide assets if we couldn't reconcile and she agreed with my proposed, fair solution. 

The only reason I want to ask her about this weekend is for closure, but I'm not sure it is a good idea. What good could come from ii? I hate that she lied and its eating me up, but if we are ending anyway maybe I should avoid rocking the boat so the split stays amicable.

Thoughts?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

You have great advice listed already.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

The advice is good, and I appreciate it. But most of the advice pertains to getting or using evidence to confront her. I don't really gain much by doing that, and since we are separating it will be much tougher to keep tabs on different things unless I hire a PI (to what end?).

I certainly would like to know if she is/was cheating, but knowing won't change where this relationship is heading. It would definitely change my view of her going forward (ie. potential contact in the future).

I want to know more for my own personal closure - to know if she did that to me. It's a horrible feeling not knowing why you're being lied to. 

At the end of the day we are probably splitting up anyway and the suspicions/evidence I have now are all I have or will have. I don't have to accuse her in a confrontation, but I do want to give her a chance to tell me the truth. I KNOW she was in the city, so if she lies then I'll just assume she cheated (or something as bad) and proceed with that mindset.

I'm only worried that by bringing it up she will know that I must have snooped in some way and it could cause things to get ugly.

What's better? An amicable divorce where I'm left without real closure OR a potential bitter, long divorce where I may learn the truth...

That is my dilemma.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

IF you can't be and aren't sure that she cheated before the separation, it would really have no bearing on her current affections. If she is considered separated, as you say you are, then would it really be cheating if she pursued this after she left you? I would say no, so it might not make a difference. If it really bothers you and you tare worried on it affecting the D, then wait until the D is final and then ask. Closure after the D is still closure.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

To be clear, we were separated from Oct - Dec and then she came home in January until this past weekend.

But ya, I could wait I guess.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

motl said:


> The advice is good, and I appreciate it. But most of the advice pertains to getting or using evidence to confront her. I don't really gain much by doing that, and since we are separating it will be much tougher to keep tabs on different things unless I hire a PI (to what end?).
> 
> I certainly would like to know if she is/was cheating, but knowing won't change where this relationship is heading. It would definitely change my view of her going forward (ie. potential contact in the future).
> 
> ...


Well, if your divorce is based on a lie, how is that going to be amicable?

How do you know it was your wife using the card? Has it been cloned?

You could check on her and say: "So-and-so said they saw you in such-and-such a restaurant. But I told them it couldn't have been you, as you were at your grandparents, then."

To learn what is really going on, follow Weightlifters advice.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I gathered that from your other posts, but like I say, unless you can prove the separation (especially the first one) was so she could cheat, then you are not really getting an answer. She might have been faithful to you and done what we preach around here so much, leave the marriage prior to having the A. When she was separated for so long, she could have seen that she really is out of love with you and moved on. She could have not had an A until recently when she had proven to herself (and you ion a round about way) that it was truly over and there was nothing there to reconcile. She then may have went out on the town. Would it really be cheating at that point if you were both in agreement that it was over?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Dig the phone bill, it's possible a strange number started being a constant since before the fall separation. If not, before this definitive one.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Squeakr, when she left to go out of town the relationship was not ended. Things weren't perfect as we have been working on rebuilding, but I was never told it was over before she left. I found out that she wanted to leave again at the end of her trip when she emailed and didn't come home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

You should try to get her to sign something in writing ASAP on the "fair division of assets". I hear Canada has some very antiquated divorce law. It's surprising how quickly most women change their mind, and lose all concern for your post-divorce financial position, after talking with a lawyer.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Yes but almost all of us have heard that they decided it was over and never told us. I would seriously doubt that the one weekend hookup would have been the thing to put her over he edge. She just hadn't told you it was over yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

motl said:


> What's better? An amicable divorce where I'm left without real closure OR a potential bitter, long divorce where I may learn the truth...
> 
> That is my dilemma.



Neither is Better, it's just what you personally need. 

Me, personally, I'd have to know what was going on and what happened, it would eat me up wondering and making up things in my mind. I'm not sure that knowing the truth HAS to equal a bitter, long divorce. You don't have to tell her where you got your info. If you have to say something, say "I was informed" ... that's not a lie ... you were informed by her cc account.

Relying on her to give you the truth is the problem, that's why others were letting you know how to get the truth without confronting her first. So, if you decide you need the truth, you need to decide if you think you would get it from her or you have to find it out on your own. 

I think it's the rare occasion when a WS tells the truth when asked at first. So, if you asked and she told you some benign story, would you believe it?


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## Hartbrok (Jul 16, 2013)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> Neither is Better, it's just what you personally need.
> 
> Me, personally, I'd have to know what was going on and what happened, it would eat me up wondering and making up things in my mind. I'm not sure that knowing the truth HAS to equal a bitter, long divorce. You don't have to tell her where you got your info. If you have to say something, say "I was informed" ... that's not a lie ... you were informed by her cc account.
> *
> ...


This is the crux. Confronting her will get you nothing. You *won't* have closure. You'll just have her pissed off, and more questions in your head.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Ok thanks.

My only intended confrontation was simply to ask 'what were you really doing this weekend' .. Perhaps even in an email since she seems better at expressing herself there.

If she fesses up to whatever she is hiding then I get closure. If she passes up the chance to tell me where she was and what she was doing then I will just assume she's hiding something bad like an affair and I'll just proceed like that is the truth (in terms of my treatment of her and potential for future friendship).

That was my plan, but maybe I shod just think it over and maybe wait or get more evidence (hard to do without PI).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

the one thing you know for sure is she's lying to you.
i think i'd want more info too and would follow weightlifter's advice.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You are deciding not to decide. IF you need more evidence for closure you MUST try to get it.

You can only try. Do it 3 weeks or some time limit YOU set.

27 cheating wives and 1 cheating husband THAT I KNOW OF hate me. They just have no idea that they do. I am sure there are many more that have followed my plan without ever contacting me.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

cool12 said:


> the one thing you know for sure is she's lying to you.
> i think i'd want more info too and would follow weightlifter's advice.


Ya. I think I can confirm she is being deceitful but perhaps not much more. If it isn't something bad like an affair, there's no reason to keep it from me (especially if prompted).

Only problem with weightlifter's advice is almost none of that is doable. She has already moved back to her parents and will only be by from time to time to pick up personal items. She does not own a car. Her tablet is her PC and she keeps it with her in her purse. Her only cell is one provided through work, and I of course do not have access to its records. 

Outside of a PI, there is very little chance of me finding out more information unless I stalk her myself ... and I'm not sure that gets me anything good, regardless of what I find. I also don't think spending money on a PI is going to get me anything either unless she goes on the offensive re: finances (at which point proving a divorce could be useful).


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I agree with others saying that you need to know for proper closure or else it will eat you up alive (this depends on what your relationship was like to start with and how close you were). Parting in an honourable and non-deceitful way is much better and different to parting when you don't know the extent of her deceit.

I would definitely want to know to help me heal and go forward. And if she did cheat I would definitely not be friendly with her going forward (remember there are two levels of deceit here - the cheating itself AND the lying about it which compounds the effect).

You should try and find out first and then confront to see if she comes clean.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

motl said:


> Ya. I think I can confirm she is being deceitful but perhaps not much more. If it isn't something bad like an affair, there's no reason to keep it from me (especially if prompted).
> 
> Only problem with weightlifter's advice is almost none of that is doable. She has already moved back to her parents and will only be by from time to time to pick up personal items. She does not own a car. Her tablet is her PC and she keeps it with her in her purse. Her only cell is one provided through work, and I of course do not have access to its records.
> 
> Outside of a PI, there is very little chance of me finding out more information unless I stalk her myself ... and I'm not sure that gets me anything good, regardless of what I find. I also don't think spending money on a PI is going to get me anything either unless she goes on the offensive re: finances (at which point proving a divorce could be useful).


well, you could always flat out ask her, in person, why she was eating at local restaurants when she was supposed to be out of town and judge her reaction. if she's not expecting it she may reveal the truth via her reaction. i would not text or email the question or tell her you want to get together to talk about something. the least she suspects the better.

it would really bug me not to know the truth. the details i can live without but the truth, i'd want that.

good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I were in your shoes, I would call her grandparents and say that she used them as an excuse to spend the weekend with her lover, apparently. Tell them you are moving on, but you hope they will at least have a talk with her and explain they don't appreciate being used as a cover story (if they so feel that way). That way, she'll know you know. And she'll see you deserving better.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If it was me, I would TEXT her and let her know that your packing up all of her stuff. Do you want me to bring it to Grandma's house or would you prefer taking it to restaurant #1, 2 or 3. Tell her either way doesn't matter, your moving on and her stuff is in the way and leave it at that. 

Now the balls in her court. She now knows that she gave you a line of bull $h!t and you know about it. Now it's her turn to scratch her ass trying to figure her way out of it.

If she asks, just let her know that it doesn't matter any longer and the the only thing you want to know is where to take it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Sorry you are here...chances are good she is cheating and has been for awhile.

I would bet that her needing 'space' to think for those months was because of her POSOM.

She just slipped up and you finally caught a clue about what she has really been up to since last October.


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## Hartbrok (Jul 16, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Sorry you are here...chances are good she is cheating and has been for awhile.
> 
> I would bet that her needing 'space' to think for those months was because of her POSOM.
> 
> She just slipped up and you finally caught a clue about what she has really been up to since last October.


That's probably correct.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'd go
Dark and distances self from her. Show her the indifference she diserve a for her deceit.

After a while of no contact wait for her to contact you and when she asks "what's up" inform her that it's time to let each other go. And when she asks you if you guys can still be friends tell her and I quote " honesty between your and me ya why not.....we have nothing to hide"!

Then never call her again and when tries to contact you again ignore her.

Your old lady last phucked you over .... You don't need closure you need distance from the scandals women!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Do not confront. There is no point. What you know for sure is that she told you it wasn't working and then left and is doing whatever she wants now.

She may not even see it as "lying" to you...she most likely just feels she no longer has to tell you anything or explain anything anymore because she is leaving you. 

Correction, SHE IS ALREADY GONE.

You already have caught her lying right to your face, isn't that bad enough? I don't know your back story but it seems at this point to not even matter if she's cheating or not because she has no more desire to work on the marriage and has already made the decision to leave.

Sorry you are going through this. It sucks to be where you are.

If you want to know more for closure, I understand that. And in that case, do not confront. You can keep watching her account transactions if you want to but if she's already gone, I think this is a recipe for more heartbreak.

I agree with whoever said you should just box up her things. Don't let her just come over whenever its convenient for her and get her things a little at a time. This will just draw out the inevitable and put you through lots of unnecessary pain.

If she has made the decision for both of you? Get out the boxes. I am not one to advocate divorce, but at this point you need a legal separation to heal up and move on, with or without her. Maybe she'll come around when she sees you are done playing games, but I don't know if I would bet that way. However, miracles do happen......sometimes.

Sorry this is happening to you.

Please take care of yourself.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Red flag when a WW wants a separation. That is so she can have her affair without her BH cramping her style.

Those credit card charges are all the proof that you need.

Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. Learn what an exposure is then do a full exposure as outlined in that book.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

theroad said:


> Red flag when a WW wants a separation. That is so she can have her affair without her BH cramping her style.
> 
> Those credit card charges are all the proof that you need.
> 
> Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. Learn what an exposure is then do a full exposure as outlined in that book.


Yeah, you beat me to it. Not only was she cheating during the period of time that he found credit card charges, but was almost assuredly cheating when she initially asked for separation back in Oct.



> "I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.
> 
> Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings."
> 
> Dr. Willard Harley, author "His Needs Her Needs"


Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

motl said:


> The advice is good, and I appreciate it. But most of the advice pertains to getting or using evidence to confront her. I don't really gain much by doing that, and since we are separating it will be much tougher to keep tabs on different things unless I hire a PI (to what end?).
> 
> I certainly would like to know if she is/was cheating, but knowing won't change where this relationship is heading. It would definitely change my view of her going forward (ie. potential contact in the future).
> 
> ...


Perhaps you could chat with her about the fact that you PHYSICALLY saw her at one of the restaurants on the credit card detail, and ask her if she would care to elaborate, anything she needs to tell you?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I think the first and most important question is 

"Is this marriage fully over?"

If the answer is yes, then the most important thing you need is to move forward.

I'm talking from my own personal experience, but the best thing I did when I divorced my wife was to not give her any thoughts that I didn't need to (divorce and children). From the moment I decided I was done, I was DONE! I didn't worry about her dating. I didn't worry how many OM there were (I knew of 1 confirmed but had suspicions of many others).

What does it matter at that point? What is "closure" anyway? Do you really think you're going to get the full and honest truth. Here's one thing to know about cheaters, if they don't 100% HAVE to tell you the truth, they won't. Your wife doesn't have to tell you the truth so she won't. You will NEVER know truly what happened. In her mind, she doesn't owe you anything.

I'm a fan of acceptance. You can accept the fact that she wasn't loyal to you and your marriage and move on. Go dark, distance yourself, I haven't caught it but I assume you have no children together? Forget about her and learn from the mistakes of the marriage.

I know this isn't easy and probably isn't the most popular thought, but if there was a chance of saving the marriage, exposure and knowledge become critical. If the marriage is dead, exposure is meaningless because her family, ultimately isn't going to care. She's the daughter and you're the EX-husband.

Sorry your here though. Good luck.


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## tdwal (Jul 28, 2012)

If you want to shake her say you saw charges in the city and knowing you were out of town you called in her card stolen. See what she says. Tell her the merchants will call the authorities if it is used again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Love it! Or better yet, just DO it! Then wait for her to find out and come to you, and you just shrug and say you assumed they were stolen, since she was at her grandparents when they were used.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

OK, update:

I brought up this past weekend and told her I know she wasn't where she said she was and asked her to tell me what she was really doing. I was very non-confrontational. Her answer was that she was close to a nervous breakdown trying to sort out her feelings (about her own life and our relationship) and at the last minute decided she needed to spend the weekend alone and away from the stress. She says she stayed with a female friend/co-worker. 

I honestly don't know if I believe it. Not because I think she is cheating, but because I'm hurt that she would lie to me. She lied to me about a financial matter in December (nothing to do with cheating), which is what made me realize that she could lie to me so easily. I didn't think she would before that. 

The first time we split up (October) was also following a weekend where she went out of town to her grandparent's. She said she was going up Friday with a female friend from work who was spending the weekend in a city 30 minutes away. Her story was that she spent the night with her friend in the city before going to her GP's. Her credit card statement shows that she was indeed in that province but the charges are in a different city that not really close to the one she said she went to (it's not opposite direction, but it's a serious detour and I don't know why she'd lie about the city). I also asked her about this during our most recent conversation and she insists she didn't lie that time.

Other things that alarmed me that I gave her benefit of doubt over past 1-2 years:

1. She used to get rides home from work from male co-workers after outings to nearby pub (group outing). Didn't bother me, except that she'd often get dropped off down the block. I noticed this after a while and asked her about it and she said it's just easier because our driveway isn't very easy to point out (which isn't false because it's in the middle of a turn)... not sure why she couldn't just show the guy once and then not need to again, and cabs seem to handle it fine.

2. Often goes to a pub with co-workers after work, which I know is true. Sometimes though the cab fare on her credit card statement was much lower than it should have been coming from that distance.

3. For the past 4-5 weeks she was spending Friday nights at a co-worker's house (same one she says she stayed with last weekend). First time: out of town consultants and her regular co-workers decided to have a celebration party at one of their houses located downtown. Due to drinking and other fun, she texted me around 11pm or midnight to let me know it'd be easier if she just stayed over. I was a bit annoyed, but said OK. Next morning her hair smelled like fruity hairspray (which she does not use) so I believed she'd stayed at a woman's house. However, this turned into a weekly event as she said they all had a good time and wanted to do it regularly. She said 2-4 woman stayed over at night, usually ones who drank too much and had to drive. I found this a bit weird since she works at a legit financial company and most of her co-workers are middle aged or older. She doesn't drive though, and her reason for staying was that it was "easier" ... I didn't understand that because I see no difference between getting a cab at 2am and 10am. 

However, most of the times when she came home at night from group outings, her breath did smell of beer and often there was a credit card charge to validate. The first time she went to the Friday night thing there was also a charge at a liquor store, which seemed to support her story.

It seems like there are plenty of red flags, but I have absolutely no real evidence. I know there is one guy at work she talks about a lot, but he sounds like a scumbag and she says he's just a friend (she also says he is chubby and not attractive at all). However, a few months ago I did get access to her phone and read their BBM chat. I didn't have it for long and didn't see anything incriminating, although their chat was very chummy with a lot of smiley faces. He had just come back from vacation and they'd gone out as a group that night. One of his BBM messages said 'It was so nice talking to you tonight, I missed you' (paraphrase) to which she responded 'Me too' (or similar). This bugged me, but at the time I hadn't discovered the lies I know now so I gave her benefit of the doubt. Later on I discovered her phone password was changed, but this could be due to work since it's a work phone and I believe they are forced to change passwords from time to time.

She doesn't use Facebook. 
She doesn't have a personal cell phone/bill.
She never used my computer and only used her tablet (which I no longer have access to). The email account I had access to (through tablet) seemed clean.
She does not drive (no VAR opportunity)
She is now living with her parents

I searched her drawers and things and no real evidence. I think some of her lingerie is missing, but she may have thrown it out when we cleaned up closet a few months ago (hasn't worn any for me in a long time).

Sex with me has been mediocre since last spring. We used to have a good sex life with variety and foreplay. For the past year she has only been interested in quickies and there are certain things she no longer does (to me) or wants done (to her). She says the lack of intimacy is due to her personal issues, which are what she believes are hurting the marriage. She says she's a different person than when we got together and doesn't feel like she really fits in our life together anymore. Still loves me, etc. She wanted space before to think and figure out what she needed to be happy, and felt she needed to be on her own for a while. She said the same thing this weekend, stating that she enjoyed being home but ultimately feels the same as before.



I was lied to and I've been dangling for quite a while waiting to see if we can work things out. As I said, I'm ready to move on and find someone who is genuinely interested in me, attracted to me, etc. Maybe it doesn't matter if she cheated, but I can't stop thinking about the red flags that have added up. I want to know if she cheated but I don't know how to find out. She's out of the house and my access to any real evidence is almost zero.

Is it possible she wasn't cheating? What should I do?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

>Is it possible she wasn't cheating? <
Yes it is possible in the same way my next lotto ticket will be a winner.
>What should I do?<
I would have a buddy check up two times say on a Friday. Past there. You have little to go on that wont cost a ton.

Hint she has a secret email.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Is it possible that she is bi-sexual, and the GF is the OW in this case??


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Is it possible that she is bi-sexual, and the GF is the OW in this case??


Seriously doubt it. And, to my knowledge, this friend is quite new as she just joined a new team at work. Friend from October trip was someone else.

She's also always been somewhat repulsed by women (sexually).


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

The Nile. Get off the river and start investigating for real.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

motl said:


> Seriously doubt it. And, to my knowledge, this friend is quite new as she just joined a new team at work. Friend from October trip was someone else.
> 
> She's also always been somewhat repulsed by women (sexually).


This is sort of a 'red flag'. 

If she is 'repulsed by women' then she might be trying to hide her real feelings.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

motl said:


> Seriously doubt it. And, to my knowledge, this friend is quite new as she just joined a new team at work. Friend from October trip was someone else.
> 
> She's also always been somewhat repulsed by women (sexually).


Not always a tell tale sign. Some of the biggest homophobics turn out to be latent closet homosexuals that just didn't/don't want to face their true inner feelings so it could happen. I personally knew several people in college that had this issue. Later on they came to touch with themselves and the truth came out.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> This is sort of a 'red flag'.
> 
> If she is 'repulsed by women' then she might be trying to hide her real feelings.


Yeah. That puts her in a small minority of women.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> >Is it possible she wasn't cheating? <
> Yes it is possible in the same way my next lotto ticket will be a winner.
> >What should I do?<
> I would have a buddy check up two times say on a Friday. Past there. You have little to go on that wont cost a ton.
> ...


Ya, this is what I fear - I may never actually know unless she confesses when questioned. 

All I know is that she lied to me, which has already ruined my trust in her, and that certain things added up to make me suspicious. Beyond that, I can't say she's ever done anything (that I know of) to make me certain she is cheating. It's just these little things that have nagged at me, which then exploded in my head once I discovered the lies.

She could have been lying about other non-cheating things (which is still a huge problem), but I'm not sure I'll ever be able to find out for sure.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

MOTL, i am struggling to understand what you really want...and i realize you are too, and there in lies the rub, because i dear say that it is the lies that is rubbing you in decisiveness...you have to ask yourself is this the best relationship i can have with my wife, her lying, he being secretive, her being uncommunicative, and virtually no sex, and you can honestly tell yourself your okay with that, with no hopes of things getting better then i wish you well...i just don't know what kind of person wants to live like that...not knowing from one day to the next what is going on with your life...isn't it time for you to stop putting your life on hold. As i see it, you have allowed her to control your relationship, your life, your happiness...its time to take it back. If she follows great...if she doesn't wish her well, give her parting gifts and get on with your life. i truly hope you make the right decision.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why do you no longer have access to her tablet?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

motl said:


> She says she stayed with a female friend/co-worker.


So you have, by now, CALLED this female friend, right? Although she is likely just an alibi your wife lined up ahead of time. But at least you need to CALL her to show your wife you don't believe her.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Xenote, I do not want a relationship with my wife. It is over. But I do want to find out what has really been going on... If I was made a fool of.

Turnera, she moved out. And no I haven't called her coworker. I dont have access to her phone and haven't met any of her coworkers (wife never invited me to their outings)


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

motl;7267314
She's also always been somewhat repulsed by women (sexually).[/QUOTE said:


> And you used to have a good sex life, now she only wants quickies and if that's not bad enough, she's telling you that this or that is now off limits and were not doing that any longer so what do you think?
> 
> Friend, if it was me, I would be putting a halt to a lot of her bull $h!t ways of doing things. All she's doing you is disrespecting you more and more and your taking it more and more.
> 
> ...


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Having just read through all of this again, I would simply say that you need to get her to sign an agreement for ammicable settlement and move on.

You say you need closure and by knowing more or discovering the truth will bring it then you are wrong, all it does is give you the real reason, closure comes from grieving your marriage and letting go of what you had.

Can you walk away from this situation as it is and grieve the loss and live a happy life?

Would you much rather know more of what has happened and then you have to learn to live with the mind movie of her taking it from her co-worker, you get to think about the secret little swapping parties where she stayed over and had group sex with ten other couples and did more with them than she ever did with you, she woke up and got phucked again before coming home to you.

Will knowing bring closure? For me, no, just torment and hurt, let her go and forget a future friendship too, that just keeps you in plan B mode and that really sucks!!!

What do you really think will bring closure? Knowing? Grieving and letting go?

You decide.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your desire for clarity is understandable. Think of it as your piece of pie missing from the fridge at work. Someone almost certainly ate it. Precisely who and when you cannot know. Accept that.

Your wife lost interest in you sexually and emotionally. Someone took your place. Who is eating her pie now is a mystery. The best move is to completely cease all communication with her except about divorce. Cut her absolutely off. Don't be hostile in your "yes" and "no's". You need to 180 to get over her as soon as possible.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

I guess you guys are right. Even if she did reveal whatever she's been hiding, there's no way I could ever be sure she told me everything. There's also a chance that she lied for personal reasons (ie. not an affair), but the fact that she lied at all destroys any hope of me being able to trust her.

Knowing probably isn't going to change much. If I could guarantee I'd never know then it might not be the worst, but I keep imagining running into in a few months and finding out about an affair then ... especially if a bunch of other people in her life knew and I was the fool. I guess it's an ego/pride thing, but probably not very productive in the short term.

Because I don't know that she did anything to wrong me, I'm also having a hard time regarding my feelings and actions toward her. She is/was my best friend and I still wake up in the morning wondering what we'll do after work in the evening, before I snap back to reality. I suppose knowing she didn't cheat would keep the door open for a potential friendship years down the road, but I suppose that is just my heart not wanting to let her go (even though my brain says I should).

I've started the 180 already. I know she's wanted to meet and discuss things / catch up, but I left her hanging this weekend and didn't return her message to meet. I will give her one single meeting to discuss things, but it will be short, I will be in control, and I will keep things on point. After that we will not see each other socially nor will she come to the house - we'll speak only to make financial/divorce arrangements. Thankfully she seems to be honoring the amicable settlement we discussed in the fall (she just got a $3000 bonus and took it as cash so we could split it as RRSPs).

Ultimately, the hardest part is not knowing. I used to have such a pristine image of my wife - she was the best thing that ever happened to me and the sweetest girl. I can't be mad at her for emotional changes, but the fact that she lied to me (even if she wasn't covering anything up) stung more than I'd have imagined.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

moti, that image that you had of your wife is the one she wants you to keep of her, so she's NEVER going to admit an affair.

This is something you will just have to accept an move on.
You say you don't want a relationship with her, and its over, so just accept, that she wants to keep looking pristine in your eyes.

And Oh, yeah, she's been cheating !!
You can take it to the bank also, there are others that know.

Did you notice, how she had a prepared come back to you finding out she was still in the city ?? She remembered how you like to dig, so yeah she knew she better have one.

Accept an move on, the image is already tarnished by the lying, so finding more won't do anything but cost you.

I say good luck to your NEW and BETTER future


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> *moti, that image that you had of your wife is the one she wants you to keep of her, so she's NEVER going to admit an affair.*
> 
> This is something you will just have to accept an move on.
> You say you don't want a relationship with her, and its over, so just accept, that she wants to keep looking pristine in your eyes.
> ...


And that is the image she wants to keep of herself, too. If she admits to cheating she has to admit to herself that she's a cheating POS.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I hope in your next relationship you have learned that couples don't go out drinking/partying/dancing with out their spouse.

With her after hours adventures there is no way you two could make it. She was leading two lives.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> And that is the image she wants to keep of herself, too. If she admits to cheating she has to admit to herself that she's a cheating POS.


Exactly. In her next relationships, she can lie and say she's never cheated, that her husband was inattentive, or *gasp* mentally abusive. Blah blah. We all know the script.

It was funny, not long after my divorce, I started dating a hair-dresser. The relationship was fun and I was my "usual self". About 3 months in, some dots got connected and the woman realizes that she was an acquaintance of my ex-wife and my ex had been bashing me at a party to her "friends". This woman couldn't believe I was the same guy as the ex-husband my ex described. Supposedly, I was "controlling" "insecure" "mentally abusive" "scary, my ex supposed worried for her safety"....etc etc. NOTHING of who I actually am, but the classic image of a bad husband, you know the kind that no matter what the wife does...the husband is the problem . My ex had to paint me as the worst possible person, even assigning some bad things her previous boyfriends did to her to me, because she didn't want the truth to come out.

I always just let my actions speak for themselves and didn't let her lies affect me. The hair dresser had to ask me like 6 or 7 different times....REALLY? "Are you sure we're speaking of the same person (ex-wife)?" "Oh yeah, that's my ex" "Was she married to someone else before or after you?" "Nope, I'm her "ex-husband"

I actually laughed because I knew my ex's nature and had prepared for this very issue.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Well, the evidence you sprung on her was weak and easily explained away. But, she didn't do a great job of it either.

She needed to be alone.....yet, stayed with a female co-worker (that's hardly alone). Told you that she went to her grandparents; yet, she stayed in town and told you that story. Well, if it was as innocent as she said it was, then why not tell THAT story, that she's staying with a co-worker?

Unfortunately, all you did was teach her to hide her tracks better. 

Look, I know that you're being lied to and a lot of folks want the REAL reason on why the relationship failed so they're not going through life blaming themselves. Unfortunately, given the fact that she's moved out and has taken all of her electronic devices, there's only two things you can do to get the truth if you want it.

1. Have a friend tail her this weekend and see if anything pans out. Or rent a car and tail her yourself.

2. OR, hire a PI.

Don't see too much else you can do.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Exactly. In her next relationships, she can lie and say she's never cheated, that her husband was inattentive, or *gasp* mentally abusive. Blah blah. We all know the script.
> 
> It was funny, not long after my divorce, I started dating a hair-dresser. The relationship was fun and I was my "usual self". About 3 months in, some dots got connected and the woman realizes that she was an acquaintance of my ex-wife and my ex had been bashing me at a party to her "friends". This woman couldn't believe I was the same guy as the ex-husband my ex described. Supposedly, I was "controlling" "insecure" "mentally abusive" "scary, my ex supposed worried for her safety"....etc etc. NOTHING of who I actually am, but the classic image of a bad husband, you know the kind that no matter what the wife does...the husband is the problem . My ex had to paint me as the worst possible person, even assigning some bad things her previous boyfriends did to her to me, because she didn't want the truth to come out.
> 
> ...


I've had that exact same experience. Pretty awesome.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Exactly. In her next relationships, she can lie and say she's never cheated, that her husband was inattentive, or *gasp* mentally abusive. Blah blah. We all know the script.
> 
> It was funny, not long after my divorce, I started dating a hair-dresser. The relationship was fun and I was my "usual self". About 3 months in, some dots got connected and the woman realizes that she was an acquaintance of my ex-wife and my ex had been bashing me at a party to her "friends". This woman couldn't believe I was the same guy as the ex-husband my ex described. Supposedly, I was "controlling" "insecure" "mentally abusive" "scary, my ex supposed worried for her safety"....etc etc. NOTHING of who I actually am, but the classic image of a bad husband, you know the kind that no matter what the wife does...the husband is the problem . My ex had to paint me as the worst possible person, even assigning some bad things her previous boyfriends did to her to me, because she didn't want the truth to come out.
> 
> ...


I had to deal with having to actually explain to my mother and my only two close friends that I didn't empty the joint bank account and that her claims of my debts are actually hers.

I lost pretty much everyone in my life and left town a very depressed man, the feelings I had then of extreme inadequacy still haunt me from time to time and with my current wife also having taken me for granted and looked for fulfilment outside the marriage I really don't know where I keep getting it wrong :scratchhead: especially when most other women around here think I'm quite a catch 

Never mind, the karma bus is en-route to my EXWs door as I type this


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

TAKE a week off work...vacation or sick leave

Become a PI and follow her, get irrefutable proof

EXPOSE!

let everyone know she is a cheating whoor and thats why your divorcing...icing on the cake if you DESTROY her little affair in the process...men bang married women for ONE reason...casual sex...married women wont want a relationship...so when this piece of casual ass suddenly wants a relation**** the posom usually disappears with a smoke trail


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## DoktorFun (Feb 25, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Exactly. In her next relationships, she can lie and say she's never cheated, that her husband was inattentive, or *gasp* mentally abusive. Blah blah. We all know the script.
> 
> It was funny, not long after my divorce, I started dating a hair-dresser. The relationship was fun and I was my "usual self". About 3 months in, some dots got connected and the woman realizes that she was an acquaintance of my ex-wife and my ex had been bashing me at a party to her "friends". This woman couldn't believe I was the same guy as the ex-husband my ex described. Supposedly, I was "controlling" "insecure" "mentally abusive" "scary, my ex supposed worried for her safety"....etc etc. NOTHING of who I actually am, but the classic image of a bad husband, you know the kind that no matter what the wife does...the husband is the problem . My ex had to paint me as the worst possible person, even assigning some bad things her previous boyfriends did to her to me, because she didn't want the truth to come out.
> 
> ...



:smthumbup:


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## Derryn Hunch (Feb 25, 2014)

Probably way late for an answer - but I had a similar scenario play out. I flew back to my home city to hang with mutual friends of ours (originally mine though) and family (interstate) to give her a few days of "space" to think about what she wanted and if she loved me (backstory in short, we'd been on a rocky road for a good month or two before this and I had asked multiple times if there was another guy in the picture, denied addmantly of course!). So I left on the Thursday morning, intending to come back to either collect all my stuff and move out later the next week, or come back earlier pending a positive outcome and decision from her.

On the Friday night, I'm having a BBQ with some of our mutual friends - trying to keep a positive face on and make the best of a bad situation, when she calls me from our house at about 8:30/9:30pm asking where some things were that she was looking for at home.

She tells me she was going over to hang with one of her friends at their place (a friend who from day one I never got along with, so that was only going to be unhelpful!) for the night and despite the call starting in a very good, respectful and amicable way, she very quickly turned and became insulting, nasty and generally trying very hard to pick a fight with me.

Anyway - she tells me during all this that she got home from work at usual 6:00pmish time, had some time to relax by herself and just wind down before heading over the her friends place for the night. Sounded fair enough, but something didn't sit right with me about the turn in her attitude during the phonecall (like she was trying to impress someone almost) and a few other things I won't go into on here (that were minor and at that moment in time not enough to warrant anything further than the quiet utters of "****... what a *****!" as I got off the phone to her and came back outside to my friends.

About 10mins later, she calls to apologize for being a ***** - 2mins phonecall ends diplomatically and we hang up. 

60secs later, she calls me again - I pick up and answer with a frustrated "what now!?!" kind of tone... only to realize that she has thrown her phone in her handbag and it hasn't screen locked... and it has accidently called me back again without her knowlege - and what do I hear? 

Her in her car, driving, *****ing about me and saying how she "told him I was going to XXXXXX's place cos he won't question that..." and the voice that responds is... you guessed it, ANOTHER GUY! 

Well the story goes on from there but that's not what I started writing my life story here for...

I made the decision to fly back on the MONDAY morning, first thing - and nip that straight in the bud, address it head on and see if I could save the relationship I knew was going to be "the one" for me at some point (later obviously lol).

I figured with her hanging with toxic to the cause friends who were anti me and obviously covering for her anyway (because they were actually going to the friends place after all that too) and him in the picture, whilst I stood aside and let everyone set up their perimeters and lay claim to making the calls on this without me being there to have my say and argue my case, then it was as good as doomed at that point without question.

We're now (fairly) happily married - She has several times admitted that had I not come back and fought the good fight for "us", it would have been all over red rover - she in fact said she had made her choice up and that my returning early and sorting this without hesitation saved our relationship. I maintain that (and she agrees too) had I waited a single day longer, things might be different. It was a co-worker btw - 500+ SMS messages between eachother per month + "Office communicator chat" and email throughout the work day and lunch/coffee/cigarette breaks etc...

My point is (jezzz.. that got epic I know) - don't be gutless - go in and fight for what you love and what you believe is right, if you truely believe its right.

But at the end of the day, you can't make someone love you and all you can do is lay out your case and hope they see some sense.


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## Derryn Hunch (Feb 25, 2014)

P.S - As you no doubt can infer from my simply being on these forums, I do keep my ear a little closer to the ground these days - I am stunned that I missed 4 months worth of 500+ text messages every single month, sending 20-30 a day, sometimes whilst she was sitting right beside me and worse still, I was suss already and on the lookout for someone else in the picture for months before that. I am a pretty tech savvy guy and I would consider myself pretty street smart and capable when it comes to working out what's going on around me. Mind you, she is a computer forensics and data recovery expert and works at some of the highest levels in that area for our countries defence force and law enforcement, so fair play to me I guess hahaha

She hasn't stepped a foot wrong since D-day and I'm now satisfied that she is not in contact with the OP and that there are and have been no other innaproppriate messages or contacts with anyone else ever since. 

Let's call it "Alert, but not alarmed..." as our government campaign slogan for national security puts it 

I'm more on the look out for a "one night stand" or irregular infrequent "casual sex friend from the past" catch up scenario - which is super difficult to detect and prove ultimately, so the longer things go without her stepping a foot wrong, the less and less I spend my time concerning on any of this. (but yes, I admit I still do for now!)


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

MOTL

Let Her Go!

You will be better off in the long run. She is a liar.

And after 15 years of friendship you do not need a woman let alone your wife in your life if she has no respect for you.

She is right about one thing.

The issues she has are hers alone. She sounds selfish and self absorbed.

Keep it amicable. Get the D done as quick as you can and tell her goodbye.

Go find a woman who knows who she is, what she wants in life and wants to be with you and only you.

Good Luck.

When you see her next keep it all business. Kiss her goodbye and walk out the door.

Do not look over your shoulder for her.

Your future lies in front of you.....

HM


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks for chiming in everyone.

We haven't spoken at all since Saturday (email). It's weird not having her around or including her in my day plans, but I guess it's just a process.

I do agree that it will just be better for me to move on, regardless of what happened over the past year or so. We did have a great run and I don't regret the last 13 years, even if the relationship didn't last a lifetime. Of course, if she cheated then my view of her would change considerably, but at this point I'm treating it as a relationship that has run its course and now it's time to move on to better things.

I believe we will see each other for the first time since she left tonight or tomorrow. We have to discuss an impending financial issue, but I am going to request that we meet at a neutral location (ie. a bar nearby) instead of having her come over. I'm sure she'll want to catch up and chat, but I think I'll try to stay focused on 'moving on' topics and then leave once we've settled those.

I've never been one to understand the whole, "I need space" or "I need to be on my own for a while" scenario. Even if we assume no cheating, it's still hurtful to have someone tell you that they'd like to see if they'd be happier without you, while at the same time asking you to put your life on hold. I did it for her in the Fall ... not prepared to do it again.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Derryn Hunch said:


> Probably way late for an answer - but I had a similar scenario play out. I flew back to my home city to hang with mutual friends of ours (originally mine though) and family (interstate) to give her a few days of "space" to think about what she wanted and if she loved me (backstory in short, we'd been on a rocky road for a good month or two before this and I had asked multiple times if there was another guy in the picture, denied addmantly of course!). So I left on the Thursday morning, intending to come back to either collect all my stuff and move out later the next week, or come back earlier pending a positive outcome and decision from her.
> 
> On the Friday night, I'm having a BBQ with some of our mutual friends - trying to keep a positive face on and make the best of a bad situation, when she calls me from our house at about 8:30/9:30pm asking where some things were that she was looking for at home.
> 
> ...


So, was she having sex with him?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Okay, everyone can call me a cynical [email protected], but I truly believe that a *large* majority of spouses who initiate separations; either have an AP or are actively looking for one. And they're looking for a contingency, plan B option with the BS if things don't work out. Such is my admittedly colored view of marriage and human nature.

In my view OP, with the other red flags going on, there's absolutely no reason to believe that she's not cheating. You should assume she is. I would.

I don't blame you for wanting to know for sure. If you need that closure, considering your limited contact with her, you should hire a PI. Consider it an investment in your peace of mind.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

I've started the 180.

We haven't spoken outside of emails since she left, and the 2-3 emails exchanged this week have only been to arrange a meeting to discuss RRSPs and other impending financial matters. I also hope to speak to a real estate agent before we meet.

I feel odd about it all. I think I really made my peace with ending the relationship when she left in the Fall. I was heartbroken and had to reevaluate my whole life by planning for the worst. I still loved her and wanted her to come home, and most certainly did the opposite of the 180. She did come home and I was happy, but after 1-2 weeks of improvement (where I felt like she was implementing changes I asked for), things regressed. When she left again 1.5 weeks ago I was already realizing that things weren't working for me - that it was stupid of me to think she would be able to change. 

It feels like everything ended in the Fall. I don't feel the same sadness I did then and feel much more ready to move on right now. It's strange because although I miss her, there is real optimism this time regarding my thoughts on the future. 

I've come to realize that she just didn't offer me everything I want in a wife/partner. She is a great person and treated me well (until recently, to my knowledge) but perhaps she's right - we just don't fit together anymore.

As you guys suggest, I am working on the assumption that she cheated or at least lied more than she admits. It won't help me much to spend time and effort uncovering all of those lies, and it might be impossible to ever get the full story. Instead, I'm just going to be civil and hope for a speedy, amicable divorce and look forward to better things in the future.

It's definitely scary though - I've never lived on my own before (we met in high school) and haven't really dated either.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> I've come to realize that she just didn't offer me everything I want in a wife/partner. She is a great person and treated me well (until recently, to my knowledge) but perhaps she's right - we just don't fit together anymore.


MOTL

This statement above should show you just how much your eyes, ears and heart are opening.

You are beginning to see the person she really is.

She sees it as not "fitting" together anymore. She is lying to herself and to you.

You know it. She has been deceitful.

Be strong. Do not be afraid of whatever the future brings for you. Sure you knew her a long time. She was the one you dated for so long.

But there are plenty of good honest women out there that have high self esteem and know what they want in life.

Go find one. Go find two or five.

I think if you do this you will grow as a person and also come to realize you might have settled too early in life.

It happens.

HM


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Well, of course you guys were right.

The other day she told me she is going down south for vacation at the end of the month. Nothing odd there, but I was curious about who she would go with since I know she would never go alone. I said nothing and showed zero interest in the trip when she brought it up.

Last night I was checking up on her new bank account - I check periodically because she's lied twice about how much money is in there so I want to keep tabs. She doesn't know I have access. While there I noticed a 1400 interac email transfer. First thought is that it must be for her trip because she has nothing else to spend that money on right now. I immediately remembered that you can view recipient history of EMTs and sure enough, the email was [email protected]. A guy I know to be a coworker.

So obviously he booked the trip and she sent her half, which means they are sharing a room. Even worse, this is the same guy who used to drop her off down the street from our house after 'work functions' almost a year ago...

I dont have access to her new email so this is probably the most I'll ever find out, but there's no doubt in my mind now. I dont know what to do with this info though. If I confront her I expect more lies, such as nothing happened until after we broke up (bull****).

Sex was ****ty for a year as she pulled away emotionally. Funny how that timing works out. I also can't stop thinking of one thing she said. For years she was hesitant to use only BC pills so we used them and a condoms until fairly recently (1.5 years ago). When she decided we could stop the condoms I remember her saying it was because of something this particular guy said at work, so "you have [guy] to thank." I keep running that through my mind and its making me crazy. Don't know why.

Its over anyway so I guess none of this matters, and now she will never have to truly face what she did to me.

Sorry for typos... On phone and in a rush
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'd send the info to her parents and siblings, just for grins. "Hey, if you call stbx during her trip, don't forget to say hi to thisguy, who she's sharing the room with."


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

I'm supposed to see her over the weekend to do minor fix ups around the house and meet with our real estate agent. I want to just blow her off and do that stuff myself, but I don't know.

I'll see her Tuesday for the realtor and that will be the last time before she goes on her trip. Almost considered, as she's walking out the door, calling out behind her "Oh and say hi to [guy] for me" just so she knows I know. I'd like to think it'd ruin her trip a bit, but I doubt it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Since you do know I think you should get your realty transaction over with and then tell her to have a great trip with "Romeo".

Then walk out the door.

You already know she is a liar. You already know your relationship never had a shot with the OM in the picture so why ignore it now.

Say it to her. Then show her your back on the way out.

She knows she is a POS. 💩

So why not let her know you know she is a POS too.....

And have a great life without her.

HM


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

I should be clear that I meant it would be the last time before she goes on her trip, not the last time in general. The house will hopefully be sold by June and divorce laws here won't let us finalize everything until October. Once the house is sold and I have my cut I'll have no reason to restrain myself, but until then I don't want to rock the boat too much.

So instead of confronting her and getting into a real fight, I might just make a one-liner comment like that just so she knows I know. I don't even want to actually talk about it. Not knowing the details is very hard, especially since our sex life was meh since about the time I first heard about him. Makes me think she was giving him that attention while downgrading our sex life. I also have no idea if they used protection or if she came home and did things with me after being with him. Those unknowns are eating away at me, but I don't see the point in confronting because I expect she will just keep lying.

I'd rather just let her know that I know, and maybe at some point I'll expose to our families, etc.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

motl said:


> I should be clear that I meant it would be the last time before she goes on her trip, not the last time in general. The house will hopefully be sold by June and divorce laws here won't let us finalize everything until October. Once the house is sold and I have my cut I'll have no reason to restrain myself, but until then I don't want to rock the boat too much.
> 
> So instead of confronting her and getting into a real fight, I might just make a one-liner comment like that just so she knows I know. I don't even want to actually talk about it. Not knowing the details is very hard, especially since our sex life was meh since about the time I first heard about him. Makes me think she was giving him that attention while downgrading our sex life. I also have no idea if they used protection or if she came home and did things with me after being with him. Those unknowns are eating away at me, but I don't see the point in confronting because I expect she will just keep lying.
> 
> I'd rather just let her know that I know, and maybe at some point I'll expose to our families, etc.


You are not divorced yet, correct? If that be the case she is spending marital funds on her sex trip. I would def ask her to pay you back immediately that money.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

wilderness said:


> You are not divorced yet, correct? If that be the case she is spending marital funds on her sex trip. I would def ask her to pay you back immediately that money.


:iagree::iagree:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good point. "Just so you know, I'm keeping track of the money you spend on this trip with POSOM and it will be coming out of YOUR half of the settlement."

There, you showed her you know AND you put a dent in her fun at the same time.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Good point. "Just so you know, I'm keeping track of the money you spend on this trip with POSOM and it will be coming out of YOUR half of the settlement."
> 
> There, you showed her you know AND you put a dent in her fun at the same time.


That is PERFECT!:lol:


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

We are not divorced but we've already divided our finances into separate bank accounts. We are each contributing 50% of joint expenses to our shared account every month.

At this point we aren't involving lawyers and we've agreed on a fair division of assets.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

is this guy married or single?, if he is married the you can wreck his life, and even if he is single you can still make exposure at their work.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

I don't think he is married. I remember my wife saying he had a girlfriend when she first mentioned him. He's a lot older than her.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

motl said:


> I don't think he is married. I remember my wife saying he had a girlfriend when she first mentioned him. He's a lot older than her.


Make sure you tell her that you know.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

motl said:


> I should be clear that I meant it would be the last time before she goes on her trip, not the last time in general. The house will hopefully be sold by June and divorce laws here won't let us finalize everything until October. Once the house is sold and I have my cut I'll have no reason to restrain myself, but until then I don't want to rock the boat too much.
> 
> So instead of confronting her and getting into a real fight, I might just make a one-liner comment like that just so she knows I know. I don't even want to actually talk about it. Not knowing the details is very hard, especially since our sex life was meh since about the time I first heard about him. Makes me think she was giving him that attention while downgrading our sex life. I also have no idea if they used protection or if she came home and did things with me after being with him. Those unknowns are eating away at me, but I don't see the point in confronting because I expect she will just keep lying.
> 
> I'd rather just let her know that I know, and maybe at some point I'll expose to our families, etc.


No no. Your sex life was meh. Hers was just great thank you very much.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

you can investigate who is the girlfriend, and wait until they go to the trip together, then go and contact the girflirend and tell her. "you know right now your boyfirend and my wife are cheating on us" and you explain her everything until today when you found that they were gonna take their vacation together.

if you do it this way he will not have way to deny it, (if you confornt him or her now, they could change their plans), in the other hand if you inform OM's gf when they are traveling together he will not have way to deny it, (how is he going to explain the both of them staying in the same hotel room?).

so my advice, find who is OM's GF and make esposure to her once the both of them are traveling together, this way you will wreck his life and ruin their trip.

so hold your cards to do it in the right moment.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

motl said:


> We are not divorced but we've already divided our finances into separate bank accounts. We are each contributing 50% of joint expenses to our shared account every month.
> 
> At this point we aren't involving lawyers and we've agreed on a fair division of assets.


meh, just tell her you are putting an addendum to the finances and whatever she spends on this trip with the twerp, you will adjust what you have split up accordingly.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

motl said:


> Not knowing the details is very hard, especially since our sex life was meh since about the time I first heard about him. *Makes me think she was giving him that attention while downgrading our sex life.*


You can just about count on that motl. That's SOP for WS's.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"So instead of confronting her and getting into a real fight, I might just make a one-liner comment like that just so she knows I know."

Why in the heck are you scared of her?

You just found incontrovertible evidence she is a disloyal and faithless cheater.

Just expose the truth to everyone, friends and family, along with the simple message that now that you know the truth of why she abandoned the M, you have no interest in saving the M but you want to clear your name of any slander or blame that may have been directed at you over the past several months.

And when she denies, gaslights, or blameshifts, just tell her you have no interest discussing the situation with a shameless liar and cheat. 

Tell her you just want to end the M ASAP so you never have to speak with her ever again as long as you live.

When people F you over in life, at the very least they should be made to simply and forcefully face a public exposure about their s****y actions towards you.

Its not revenge, it is simple justice.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> "So instead of confronting her and getting into a real fight, I might just make a one-liner comment like that just so she knows I know."
> 
> Why in the heck are you scared of her?
> 
> ...


I so agree but also think OP is also looking out for the bigger picture, get the sale through, get the potential hold ups put to bed and then toy with her, you do have to remember WSs are cold cruel and manipulative A-holes for the most part, if they weren't then we'd all still be happily married.

Better leave her alone before she decides to play hard ball and drag this on into the next decade!!!

That my friend is not being scared of her but being smart, you cannot expect to actually be rid of her and exact your justice if there are outstanding papers and such that she needs to sign, once signed then play away, otherwise it turns into a money pit with no clear end in sight.

Be smart!!!


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

Today I will be drafting a separation agreement, which is a legal document where I live. It will bind us to our previous agreements regarding assets, joint finances, house sale proceeds, etc.

I'm going to ask her to sign it when we meet next, after which I will have no qualms about calling her on her bull****.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

The only cheaters who don't lie are the ones who as a matter of fact say to you:
"I'm going to go out and find somebody I really want to have sex with and you can like it or lump it."
All the rest will keep things on the "down low" and hope to get the most out of it for themselves.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Manticore.

THAT IS EVIL POST OF THE DAY so far.

I would hire a PI for a quick pic. Just for fun. Then use it on Cheaterville for him.
Yes I have a funny definition of fun.

OP at least you know it was her not you.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

motl said:


> OK, update:
> 
> I brought up this past weekend and told her I know she wasn't where she said she was and asked her to tell me what she was really doing. I was very non-confrontational. Her answer was that she was close to a nervous breakdown trying to sort out her feelings (about her own life and our relationship) and at the last minute decided she needed to spend the weekend alone and away from the stress. She says she stayed with a female friend/co-worker.
> 
> ...


Lots & Lots & Lots & Lots & Lots

of opportunity to cheat.............. NO ?

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

motl said:


> Xenote, I do not want a relationship with my wife. It is over. But I do want to find out what has really been going on... If I was made a fool of.
> 
> Turnera, she moved out. And no I haven't called her coworker. I dont have access to her phone and haven't met any of her coworkers (*wife never invited me to their outings*)


Interesting don't you think ?

55


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> Interesting don't you think ?
> 
> 55


Could be, or it could be like my company that is too cheap to pay extra for spouses and families, so all of the outings are employees only (never had an opportunity to invite my family, even on my dime).


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Are they still on vacation? You have POSOM's email. You could always start a dating site profile for her and send him the link from an anonymous email account. But never mind.

You could also photoshop a STD patient report that says she has something nasty and infectious.

Just make the D smooth at this point. He is quite a bit older than her. She can nurse him when is impotent and senile if they last that long. Forget her.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Love that idea, should have done it a few weeks back and been socially active on it encouraging some hot hunks to get happy snapping for her then send the link to him from your own email asking him if he knew he was also being played by her?

Can you imagine the fall out from that one


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Could be, or it could be like my company that is too cheap to pay extra for spouses and families, so all of the outings are employees only (never had an opportunity to invite my family, even on my dime).


He said *wife* never invited him

55


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> He said *wife* never invited him
> 
> 55


But that could be his impression, and like I stated maybe the employees never had the opportunity to invite others. We tend to view these things egocentrically whether the option we want is available for not. Not saying she purposely didn't invite him (as that is a definitely a possibility), but unless he knew that others were able to be invited and were in fact invited, then this could be his impression of the situation solely that she chose to not invite him (but may not have been an option).

Just offering this up, as we seem to think that all company outings have the possibility of being employee, spouse, and possibly gamy functions. I have never had one of those opportunities with my company (it just is not an option to invite "anyone" else.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

To be clear, most of these were not official work functions. Yes, her employer is cheap and doesn't usually allow spouses to official functions, but these outings I'm referring to were generally informal "after work at a pub" type gatherings. I'm not saying I expected to become part of their group because that is unreasonable. I asked a few times if I'd ever get to meet her friends and she'd say, "Well it's just people from work and other people don't bring their spouses." I know one girl did bring her boyfriend a few times, but I don't think it was the norm.

I did however suggest grabbing dinner or something with her closest guy (dif guy) and girl friend that she talked about a lot, but she never took me up on it. So she worked there for 4+ years and I've NEVER met a single person she works with.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

motl said:


> I did however suggest grabbing dinner or something with her closest guy (dif guy) and girl friend that she talked about a lot, but she never took me up on it. So she worked there for 4+ years and I've NEVER met a single person she works with.


Seems to be a trend here. My WW worked at her last school for 10 years and I met very few of her colleagues as well. 

Nothing like keeping work and personal life separate so she could build an image as she wanted and no one was there to tarnish or question it.


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## jnichk76 (Nov 4, 2013)

motl said:


> To be clear, most of these were not official work functions. Yes, her employer is cheap and doesn't usually allow spouses to official functions, but these outings I'm referring to were generally informal "after work at a pub" type gatherings. I'm not saying I expected to become part of their group because that is unreasonable. I asked a few times if I'd ever get to meet her friends and she'd say, "Well it's just people from work and other people don't bring their spouses." I know one girl did bring her boyfriend a few times, but I don't think it was the norm.
> 
> I did however suggest grabbing dinner or something with her closest guy (dif guy) and girl friend that she talked about a lot, but she never took me up on it. So she worked there for 4+ years and I've NEVER met a single person she works with.


Well did you confront her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

jnichk76 said:


> Well did you confront her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No.

At one point her trip came up and I casually asked who she was going with. She told me a group of friends from work happened to be going to Dominican so she went along with them. I stupidly still wanted to believe her, but obviously I can't understand why she would have that guy book for her? I sort of hesitated in the moment and didn't say anything.

Since then I went on my own trip and have barely spoken to her at all. I haven't seen her in weeks and our house goes up for sale next week. I still do want to confront her, but I also don't really know what I'll gain from it. I know every sign is staring me in the face, but I also don't have what I'd call concrete proof. I don't want to confront and then either be wrong or not have any ammunition to counter her next round of lies.

I'm not sure what I'll do going forward, but for now I'm just focused on getting this whole relationship over with. I can't wait for the house to be sold and divorce finalized in a few months. I'd love to know the whole story but feel like I never will. Right now I'm happy to just avoid thinking about all the worst case scenarios and simply get her out of my life ASAP.

I try not to think about it/her, although I did have a few bad nights when she was away and I was picturing what she might be doing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Time to get out and start having some fun of your own.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Really feeling for ya man.

But just look at it like this, if you do confront her with it then you need the proof to combat the lies, all you really have is a lot of circumstantial stuff.

Get the sale through, get the D finalized and chalk it up as experience and don't dwell on it, easy to say I suppose and the drama addicts around here will be trying to convince you that you will never feel complete not knowing the truth, that is only true if you allow yourself to be held back by her, forget the where's, why's and what ifs and live in the moment, you can't change the past but you can use it as a tool to build a better future.


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## motl (Feb 18, 2014)

wranglerman said:


> Really feeling for ya man.
> 
> But just look at it like this, if you do confront her with it then you need the proof to combat the lies, all you really have is a lot of circumstantial stuff.
> 
> Get the sale through, get the D finalized and chalk it up as experience and don't dwell on it, easy to say I suppose and the drama addicts around here will be trying to convince you that you will never feel complete not knowing the truth, that is only true if you allow yourself to be held back by her, forget the where's, why's and what ifs and live in the moment, you can't change the past but you can use it as a tool to build a better future.


This is basically my attitude exactly. We had no kids and our separation has been pretty amicable, so I don't see any reason for contact once the divorce is finalized. A silver lining is that in a few months I can put this all behind me forever.

And you are right - I don't have concrete proof, which is why I've so far been so hesitant to confront her. All I know is that she's lied to me before and that a bunch of **** doesn't add up. That's enough for me to have given up on her emotionally and I'm remarkably OK with moving on. In fact, some of my friends and family have expressed surprise at how well I'm handling it. I have my moments of anger and depression, but like you said, I can only control what I can control. I'm trying not to dwell on what I've lost and I'm looking forward to what comes next. 

I hate that I'm stuck in this marriage for a while longer. It makes meeting other girls, even as friends, more difficult (because I don't want to conceal my situation).


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## TiredFamilyGuy (Jan 18, 2014)

You are getting divorced. But your mental energy is still with your ex. What you give mental energy to, grows. Focus elsewhere - on work, friends, health, a trip, your other interests. 

Good luck, OP (and not as I understand you say in Canada, "Good Luck with that"!)


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Motl,

The bank transfer to POSOM's account for the trip pretty much spells it out. The questions in your mind really are simple:

1) When did she start feeling attraction for OM
2) When did she start fvcking him
3) How many times did you have sex after him? (Yuck!)

As to being nice. Well, I don't think it will be good for your self esteem.

Perhaps getting out smoothly is smart but it would be nice to chuck a grenade into the love shack. When you say goodbye to all the in-laws and friends you can mention that she is a cheater. No in a bitter tone, but in a matter of fact was so that her image is real.

The karma bus is not reliable. But they may have have kids before one of them cheats again.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Motl,
> 
> The bank transfer to POSOM's account for the trip pretty much spells it out. The questions in your mind really are simple:
> 
> ...


No it's not but it does turn up and usually when least expected or needed 

I see your points LW but they are not conducive to him getting over it and more importantly getting out of the situation if he begins to dwell on them again.

I do fully agree with exposure after the deals are done and strings are cut but not while she still has leverage to control the situation!!


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