# Joining the Club



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I have been on here for a few years now, mainly participating in adding my two cents to people's situations. Yet, originally I joined this site because of some marital duress of my own that occurred when wife insisted on separation that led to my discovery of her online affairs and whatnot. After a few years of ups and downs and attempts at reconciliation, wife decided to divorce...and then just a couple weeks until finalization, she begged to reconcile.

Then I got cancer which put all of this on pause. At the outset of my diagnosis, my wife was extremely supportive, but then slowly drifted into a haze of hopelessness and depression...because of getting out of the fog, the uncertainty of my situation, and her overall unhappiness. I have been feeling very much alone this past year since my stem cell transplant and recovery.

Now that it seems like I may be getting back online with life, I have been presenting to her that we have so much to work through...and she agreed, but when she actually decided to plug into her feelings that she had basically set aside, she knew she had given up a long time ago. The past few weeks have been filled with her venting a lot of resentment and disappointments regarding my shortcomings. I, too, had my share grievances.

This last week, we hit this window of honesty where we decided that we needed a complete overhaul in this 17 year marriage...and just needed time and space to unravel this mess. Wife has been very honest about being on the fence, and I did well not to let that rattle me. I just really tried to absorb and validate all of her concerns...which I have been working through isolate my areas of responsibility. Wife also has been apologetic concerning her emotional abandonment.

Yesterday, after several weeks of doing some very deep, emotional work...I had the sense that we weren't going to fix this...and then I just felt a wave of relief hit me. My wife called soon after, and asked of we could have dinner somewhere so we could talk, and I just knew what she was going to talk about.

So, yes, we are finally divorcing. My logical self wants to account for all of the wasted time, but my heart feels so much lighter. Thankfully, we are doing this amicably, versus several years ago when wife was acting out and unstable. Now, I can tell she is honestly taking stock of her life and how self-destructive she had been, taking me down with her...me, who never had the tools to set boundaries and earn her respect. We are going to make sure that each are okay financially and can get on our feet...and go from there.

Good times.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

(((FormerSelf)))


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

No new developments...wife seems unwavering in her commitment to starting her life over. She is already attending DivorceCare classes and seeking out a therapist...AND plans on connecting with her old SA group...sexaholics anonymous that is.

It feels ironic how she is finally getting the help she needed ...but only after choosing to end things between us. But I have known for the last few years that our marital intimacy is a trigger for her...and I was the fool who ignored the red flags that she was not the marrying kind, except I helped create a dysfunctional respite from her woes.

Of course, she didn't see it that way. All she knew was that she was unhappy, _always_ unhappy, and found that I was easy to blame...when all along I was _never_ the type of guy she was ever going to truly respect. It has been very hard for me to accept this, but I know now that my STBXW simply wants to upgrade...is desperate to lose weight and make internal and external improvements in order to graduate from the life of pain that she associates with me. 

So, in short, I have been struggling with feeling like a complete _loser_.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

FS.... so sorry to hear of this pain. 

You are a survivor.

You are eloquent.

You are wise.

Resist internalizing what she feels she needs to be happy. She is more stable than she was, but still not fully stable. She is getting a free pass to "escape" responsibility instead of choosing to love the good man she has. BIG difference.

You will be scooped up in no time when you are ready.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

FormerSelf said:


> So, in short, I have been struggling with feeling like a complete _loser_.


You're not a loser FS; in fact, you're a _winner._ Few of us untangle from long term marriages without acrimony, bitterness, anger, financial destruction, etc. It's great that you can both sit down like adults, admit it's over, and still look out for each other in the process.

I know it hurts now, but this is a fresh start for you.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

FS, you've been here a long time. You've seen some of the ugliest things that can happen in a marriage. You've seen members come here desperate to save their marriage only to throw up their hands in a matter of days. You've fought the good fight. You've weather the emotional damage of a wavering spouse who only gets so close before she draws away again. Some situations you can't fix. Some people you cant't fix. In my tenure at TAM, I've always wanted people to fight for a marriage worth saving and to not quit until there's nothing left in the tank. You've been running on fumes longer than most. It's time. I think you can walk away with pride in knowing you gave it all you had, it just couldn't be fixed. Time to move on, heel yourself and find a life and relationship that makes you happy. Best of luck in that trek. You are not a loser. Just a man that fought to save his marriage and came out wiser and stronger for the efforts.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Wow, you have been through a lot. I am glad that you are emotionally relieved, rather than grieved. Maybe letting go of an emotionally draining relationship is the first step toward a healthier life. Everything happens for a reason!


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks for the kind words everyone.


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## FormerVictim (Jan 13, 2015)

FormerSelf said:


> Of course, she didn't see it that way. All she knew was that she was unhappy, _always_ unhappy, and found that I was easy to blame...when all along I was _never_ the type of guy she was ever going to truly respect.


Hard stop. Stop it right now. Loser? Hardly.

You were acting on your best information and - actually - doing your best with what you knew. You now have new information. It's no surprise WHATSOEVER that she is now seeking the help to make herself better. Believe me, that has absolutely nothing to do with you. Absolutely nothing. But, it's not "coincidence" either. For you see, in her heart, she feels you know "too much"

No one else will ever know these things about her - and she wants to keep it that way. Forgive yourself. It's been a long road. I'm sorry she isn't willing - even yet - to trust. 
But, it was a long shot, no matter how you measure it.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

It's nice that you can end things on a healthier note. If you have kids, this will be so much better for them.

I'm another that's been working on the marriage for years and just learned that it's over (well, that's the story this week. I wouldn't but it past H to be telling a different version of the story next week). I'm not angry either. I'm thankful that I've had so much time to work on myself, get stronger, more confident. It's better to leave a marriage in the best shape you can.

Good luck in your future.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Sorry you are going through this. I have to agree that you are not a loser. You are actually a winner because you have learned so much and you are much more resigned to this and able to understand than you were years ago. 

I think she has to look at herself when she is with you and that takes so much energy to deal with, she just doesn't have it any more. I think that's why she has gone back to counseling. She realizes she needs help, if you aren't there. 

Please take care of yourself through all of this. Make sure you eat right, and get counseling if you need it. You are a good man. You went through a whole heap of stuff. You did all you could and more. I remember thinking years ago that you must be so strong to go through it all. I tip my hat to you sir. Keep a lip upper stiff. I mean, a stiff upper lip.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Thank you everyone for the support. I am doing a lot better about not kicking myself. Things are truly out of my hands...and I am at a place of acceptance that my marriage is gone except the dangling issues of filing legal paperwork.

I'll probably get into more details about things once the dust clears...but I am feeling more and more settled that ending this is the right thing. Sure, areas for improvement have certainly surfaced that I need to deal with, but overall...it's clear to me that my ONLY option is to shake the dust off my feet concerning my wife of 17 years.

Several years ago, I was convinced and ready back then to say it was over...but I fell back on my sense of commitment when STBXW changed her mind, but this time, this is happening. This captain, is ramming this here ship, into that there iceberg...play the music, get the lifeboats, and fire your flares into the sky.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> Thank you everyone for the support. I am doing a lot better about not kicking myself. Things are truly out of my hands...and I am at a place of acceptance that my marriage is gone except the dangling issues of filing legal paperwork.
> 
> I'll probably get into more details about things once the dust clears...but I am feeling more and more settled that ending this is the right thing. Sure, areas for improvement have certainly surfaced that I need to deal with, but overall...it's clear to me that my ONLY option is to shake the dust off my feet concerning my wife of 17 years.
> 
> Several years ago, I was convinced and ready back then to say it was over...but I fell back on my sense of commitment when STBXW changed her mind, but this time, this is happening. This captain, is ramming this here ship, into that there iceberg...play the music, get the lifeboats, and fire your flares into the sky.


*FS: You are not the loser! Your STB old lady is ~ and will someday come to absolutely rue the decision she's made!

And while you may be losing your W, you'll still have your TAM family here to help guide you in your problems and to answer your many questions, just as you've been kind enough to help answer ours! 

Good luck, my friend!*


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Today was a tough one. Lots of negative feelings are bubbling up concerning my STBXW for certain reasons I really don't want to get into yet...but I am sure my TAM friends can put two and two together. I am feeling very angry, but honestly nowhere to direct it...because it is not going to change a single thing about this imminent divorce...and I need things to be as they are.

I think I am mostly mad because I felt like I was trying to jumpstart this corpse for so long...a one-sided attempt at reconciliation (albeit imperfectly) while wife just floated along not unlike an out-of-body experience...waiting to return ONLY if the conditions came to her liking, blaming her loss of love on me.  

I took a long walk along the river and I must have appeared as a man with Tourette's Syndrome, I was so spittin' angry...cursing into the cold wind.

The other day was the anniversary of my stem cell transplant. It was a lonely celebration...but I am grateful to be alive and kicking, cancer free. 

There has been miraculous news concerning the treatment of cancers such as multiple myeloma and leukemia...as the findings of last years clinical trials for virotherapy have been released where a few cancer sufferers-out of options-have been treated with modified viruses such as measles, cold, and even HIV. The effect...complete remission...as in cure.

http://youtu.be/e8SvBAjXGyQ

So if I happen to have a relapse in multiple myeloma...this could very well be the answer...permanently (in a good way).

Just needed to vent a little and share what has been going on in my fantastic world.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Justification by blaming you is pretty normal fare. You know you did all you could. I believe that you did. It takes two to make it work, but only one to break it. From what I've read that you posted. It wasn't you who broke it, no matter what she wants to lay at your feet.

The walk sounds like it did some good. If you can get out and do some physical exercise like that, I think it will do you a whole lot of good and allow you to release that anger. Many folks have lifted weights while I'm sure pushing themselves with their anger. Just be careful you don't push to much and hurt yourself, if you do lift. 

I'm glad you can get out and do that. I hope it's over soon. You deserve so much better. I'm so sorry for you. You truly went and are still going through hell.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I remember your story but thought you were getting out after your treatment (great news on that, BTW)? I guess you had decided to try again? 

I think you made the right decision this time.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Openminded said:


> I remember your story but thought you were getting out after your treatment (great news on that, BTW)? I guess you had decided to try again?


Everything was just on pause during treatment and recovery...as wife made some strides to show she wanted to reconcile just as I was starting to get ill. Then she pretty much shut down on me as I had to attend to health, insurance, finances, bankruptcy, and then recovery almost entirely on my own. 

Now that I am doing better and we are looking at the future...she did a self-inventory and saw that she didn't think she ever had a willingness to reconcile after all...but her actions over the year pretty much revealed her intentions already...so it was no surprise to me that it was when I said, "Let's work on this marriage," was when she decided to tap out.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

If nothing else...you got sober during that year, right? Which maybe you would not have done if you did not hope for a reconciliation?


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Jane139 said:


> If nothing else...you got sober during that year, right? Which maybe you would not have done if you did not hope for a reconciliation?


 Thanks Jane, but I was talking about treatment of cancer and recovery after brutal chemo and stem cell transplant. I guess it would help if I was more specific, huh? LOL

This feels like such a complicated situation, because we both feel like were weren't having our needs met. My wife, the one initiating the divorce says she checked out long ago because I had been one she had been unable to connect with. Apparently, she relates to the "Say Something (I'm Giving Up On You)" song. That honestly makes me very sad...like I really missed the mark in our marriage.

I am not going to make excuses for my area of responsibility, but I do want to counter with the fact that I have tried to reach her, tried to make things right...but she had always retreated into this dark place where I could never reach her, enveloped in the surety that her life was cursed and will never get better...and it has almost always been like that. Her emotional withdrawal created an impassible crevasse where she just didn't believe that things will get better. She, instead, opted to do one of her "do-overs", a behavior she had employed all her life.

At the same time, If I had done something that had really F-d things up for us, I want to change it! Her behaviors don't necessarily negate mine, but I guess I fail to see where I didn't try, didn't care, didn't want to connect. Also, she was the one who pursued EAs and found it easier to have online sex with bottom feeding, mouth breathers...instead of having a real intimate relationship with me. 

And when she wasn't acting out sexually, she was destroying our finances, running up our credit cards, overeating. I could never trust her to be honest with me...as if I was raising a rebellious teenager. I blame myself about not setting boundaries, not being more assertive with my needs when she was neglecting them. I am assuming that was what she was looking for.

So she is right, we have always been dysfunctional. I guess I just have to let her go, lick my wounds, and then fix this brokenness in myself.


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## WasHappyatOneTime (Nov 26, 2012)

FS,

It may have been what she was looking for. But, it certainly wasn't what she said she wanted.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

FS,

Is she a victim of CSA? I don't mean the confederate states of america. LOL Someone here has read a book on that. I can't remember what the name of it is. I thought it kind of helped him understand what his wife might be thinking. 

It sounds like your wife can't allow herself to get close. She feels too unsafe with that much vulnerability. That has nothing to do with you, as you know. 

She's a runner when it comes to deep intimacy. She wants it, but only from you. If she has to give much, she can't stand it. She has to get affirmation from anonymous or uncaring men. It's not something you are able to do because you love her. It also sounds like you could have that intimacy with her, but won't allow yourself because she isn't reciprocating. It's tough to give someone that much vulnerability. If she was distant and demanding intimacy from you, it would make me feel like she wanted to take advantage of me somehow. 

Of course, this is all just a guess. I really don't know as I am not a professional. I just know it sucks to want and not even know how or what she wants because she doesn't, but talks and acts like she does know. I find that some of these women will be a model wife in all things, but intimacy. They will go out and have affairs to get that feeling they can't explain that allows them to realize they are not worthy, while keeping it secret so you won't think less of them. 

Again, that's a big guess. I'm sorry you are going through this. You have been through way too much already.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> FS, Is she a victim of CSA?


2ntnuf ~ You pretty much nailed it on the head with your entire post. CSA in a big way. Latent diagnosis of PTSD. Fear of intimacy and attachment. Looked for affirmation outside of the marriage. Seeks out dominant older men to put her in her place and fantasizes about pain.

It pretty much started on wedding night when she uncharacteristically avoided consummation of marriage (when she was quite frisky before marriage). 

Then over the next couple of years, I was pretty frustrated with her spending and eating patterns...I should have picked up that these were addict traits.

Sex was frequently consisting of long periods of awkwardness...as my wife, who is a firecracker in all things, just always went "starfish" on me (a term I just learned on TAM recently). And I didn't know what to think of it, getting insecure from the belief I was turning her off. Soon, it became evident wife was always sabotaging sex and I could sense a lot of anger underneath. We were married about three years before she admitted that she "hated" sex and had a long duration of CSA from her teenaged half-sister.

Her admittance didn't change much...as she wasn't prepared to deal with it...and revealed slowly over time how much anger, bitterness, and paranoia she held against the world. Having a discussion with her was like walking through a minefield...didn't know what was going to set her off. I, however, tried to be as supportive as possible...falling into a codependent relationship.

To be honest, she _did_ grow out of most of this, but our sex life and intimacy never truly took off. We also remained in this codependent dance...where I tried to anticipate every obstacle to help her out...while she felt strangulated by me...as well as started to pine for some semblance of masculine leadership which she could not feel from me.

There was one small window of time when it seemed to click between us...about eight years in...when I was hitting 31, I recognized we were in a really bad place and I initiated in turning the ship around. We would go at it like rabbits and we seemed like we were figuring it out...actually enjoying each other's company...but then wife dropped down to her ideal weight...and garnering male attraction is a huge trigger for her to act out. She said it started when she was in a grocery store when a random old guy put a bouquet of flowers in her cart, saying "These are for you, beautiful" and from there on, that is when her obsession with cheating began. She also wanted me to start getting rougher with sex...not quite feeling open enough that it wasn't really sex she wanted, she wanted pain.

We then moved out of California to be nearer to my family when things got too expensive in our area. It was her suggestion, seemingly innocent, but really she was hoping to get away from a couple of flirting situations with co-workers that had gotten out of hand. I did not know this. Then it was years of misery again...where she was extremely unhappy and unpleasant to be around...particularly when I had to force her hand to stop overspending.

By now I existed just to help her manage her moods it felt like...while her constant insistence on do-overs destroyed our finances and we never stayed stable enough to make traction. Of course, she blamed me for all of it. But to her credit, I ALLOWED it to happen.

So then 5 years ago, she wanted out...after going headlong into affairs...online EAs, seeking dominant older men. I finally came into the knowledge of it...and then my questions throughout the entire marriage just finally clicked. Still, I managed to try to salvage things (I know wife is painted really bad her, but if you knew her...you would see what a dynamic, beautful, intelligent woman with two Masters degrees and natural charisma...and had a depth of spirituality...whenever she chose to employ it...was of a richer quality than anyone I have ever known), but she never regained her hope to try, just held on until it seemed prudent...with my cancer extending it a bit further. Sex now became NONEXISTENT because we never processed through the affairs wholly...and she just shut me out this past year and a half. Now she has a great job that I had supported her towards on this winding journey...where she now has the financial independence to move on.

Had a long conversation with her last night...and she admitted she never should have gotten married. She felt VERY reluctant as the day drew nearer, sensing it was a doomed prospect, but she also didn't want to lose me...as she truly loved me, and STILL loves me...yet had hoped that marriage was the vehicle that would help her escape her problems. When that didn't happen...when "the curse" followed her, she lost a lot of hope, magnified by my inability to make her feel safe and secure.

That is my failed marriage in a nutshell. "How did I get into this nutshell?"


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

Is she bi-polar maybe? That can also include acting out sexually, etc...just wonder if she has ever or is taking any meds. Or even talked to a therapist.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Jane139 said:


> Is she bi-polar maybe? That can also include acting out sexually, etc...just wonder if she has ever or is taking any meds. Or even talked to a therapist.


No, she never hit the sort of extremes where she loses track of reality...it wasn't like that. She was very _calculated_ in her acting out, and although she could be an angry person, her anger was always her way of dealing with fear...a protective measure.

Same with borderline...although I had suspected it at first...I feel (and her therapist) feels she leans toward PTSD. 

Right now she feels very comfortable with her present therapist, so I trust he is going to catch emergent signs of a personality disorder.

*Thanks to everyone reading and being empathetic to my woes. I took another long walk on the river and decided I need to start letting my wife go.

I have been very concerned about her next personal direction, but I just feel like I have been struggling with not keeping her in the forefront of my mind when I need to focus on my own healing, my own future, my OWN HEALTH. 

It struck me that I am not healthy either...and even though I may not have been as demonstrative as my wife, I am just a part of this unhealthy dance as she has been. Sad but true.

So, I have to let her go. Sadder but truer.*


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> By now I existed just to help her manage her moods it felt like...while her constant insistence on do-overs destroyed our finances and we never stayed stable enough to make traction. Of course, she blamed me for all of it. But to her credit, I ALLOWED it to happen.
> 
> So then 5 years ago, she wanted out...after going headlong into affairs...online EAs, seeking dominant older men. I finally came into the knowledge of it...and then my questions throughout the entire marriage just finally clicked. Still, I managed to try to salvage things (I know wife is painted really bad her, but if you knew her...you would see what a dynamic, beautful, intelligent woman with two Masters degrees and natural charisma...and had a depth of spirituality...whenever she chose to employ it...was of a richer quality than anyone I have ever known), but she never regained her hope to try, just held on until it seemed prudent...with my cancer extending it a bit further. Sex now became NONEXISTENT because we never processed through the affairs wholly...and she just shut me out this past year and a half. Now she has a great job that I had supported her towards on this winding journey...where she now has the financial independence to move on.
> 
> ...


She had to blame you. You were her rock at home where she was doing and acting the way she wanted to be, but could not. As you got closer to figuring her out, you could not be the man she needed anymore. She likely would have needed you to ignore it or never truly know. She now was left with a man who was trying to help her, and she believed she could not be helped. She couldn't tell you, though. So, she punished herself with other men who semi-degraded her and made her feel like things were "normal" or "okay". It left her with a safely familiar feeling, even though it was destroying the marriage she dreamed of having. 

You allowed it because...well, in my mind, for a few reasons. When a person is in love, they kind of have horse blinders on and can't see what is going on. Being a man, you want to help and fix her problems so she doesn't suffer any more. You could not possibly see what was really happening until it was too late. She would not allow it because she would lose her dream. She knew she would eventually have to run. You could not have known. 

I know it's a rhetorical question. I just want you to understand that the woman you loved was magnificent, but she truly wasn't real. You were duped by the best and she didn't mean to fool you. It's just the only way she knew to survive. She did and/or does love you, but she knows she is not well. She knows she can't keep up the facade. 

FS, you would be in the insane asylum if you kept going with her. I just don't think she meant to do it, even though it certainly seems like it from where you are sitting. Keep going. Live, laugh and love again. You did all anyone could.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I think you are right about the ptsd, but could be that complex ptsd fits closer. Take a look at it and see what you think. It may give you a bit of resolution for some of those unanswered questions. Hand it off to her if it fits and matbe her and her therapist will have a great new tool of info to help her. Good that you are shifting to focus on healing well.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I think you are right about the ptsd, but could be that complex ptsd fits closer. Take a look at it and see what you think. It may give you a bit of resolution for some of those unanswered questions. Hand it off to her if it fits and matbe her and her therapist will have a great new tool of info to help her. Good that you are shifting to focus on healing well.


Yeah, I can sorta see her in that particular diagnosis. Thanks for bringing that up!

@2ntnuf...good words. Yeah, I never thought my wife was doing this on purpose or in spite...as she never talked bad about me to anyone and feels pretty broken up that she feels, for her own health and recovery, that she has to walk away from someone she loves. It had been on her mind a long while...and even admitted that her acting out was partially a way to blow the whole damn thing apart and getting it over.

To be honest, I have been supportive for her to find her "healthy zone" from here, but there are indications that she will not be taking such a "healthy" route as she claims. That is the part I have to let go...I have to release her to her freewill choice, even if that means she may risk crashing and burning.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You really do need to focus on you and not on her. You can't help her. She will either heal or she won't but that's on her. Your job is to heal yourself so you make good choices going forward.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Well somebody had to be at fault for this mess and you were a good choice, otherwise she would have accepted responsibility herself and you know she wasn’t going to do that crap. I get the impression that her lack of fiscal responsibility created a parent child relationship, where you were forced to take command. This lead to her rebellion in various directions and the chances of this healing isn’t good under the best of conditions. In the immortal words of Alfred Lord Tennyson, “'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”.

So take off your armor Don Quixote, there is no need for you to rescue her, you are only tilting at windmills. Still on the walks you take, think of things in the marriage that would have strengthened the relationship that you failed to do this time and apply it to the next relationship. You still have lots of life ahead.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

VFW said:


> Still on the walks you take, think of things in the marriage that would have strengthened the relationship that you failed to do this time and apply it to the next relationship. You still have lots of life ahead.


I agree. Still, I have the feeling it is going to be some time before I even attempt at a new relationship. (No, and it won't because I will be pining for my ex-wife...in fact truths are surfacing concerning her new-found liberty that is sickening to me, enough to write her out of my life altogether.) I am going to just assume that I will be attracting the wrong kinds of women in my life until I get lots of time and recovery under my belt.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

FS..... sorry you are here brother. Your W reminded

me so much of my 1st love and XW. 1st love was CSA

and severely mistreated. Her father was an undiagnosed

paranoid schizophrenic. By the time we met she was seeking

anything to get away (we met in high school). Things ended in 1990

but every couple years she tries to re-enter my life. I was her safe

haven. She will run until the day she dies. Now my XW and I had

more a parent / daughter thing. She was seven years older than I.

Her mother always bailed her out financially. After her mom died,

things started to get rocky as I held her accountable financially. She

also.... gained weight (150 pounds... no lie) and went into depression.

Add her only son being kicked out after turning into a drugged out

thief and she went into a shell and will probably never come out.

15+ years we were together. It hurt but I never regretted dropping

the D. Be prepared for your W to make reaches. My XW did the 

last half of the 60 day wait and asked me if I wanted us to go out

in the courthouse parking lot just after D was finalized.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She wanted more than you could have given and when she didn't get it, she sought other men. She didn't get it from them either, excepts episodically.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Chuck71 & LongWalk...I will not be surprised if she washes ashore once something happens...but i honestly hope she makes great strides with her therapist. But we haven't even filed yet, and she is already seeing greener grass (what the hell, I guess I can divulge) in her online interaction with some OM, married with kids! 

I totally lost all respect for her (especially when I actually respected her "reasons" for getting help for herself). But as far as she knows, I am just happy and chipper about moving on. Not that she is paying attention...she is totally wrapped up in this guy...AND talking with a former EA on the side.

I need to get far away from her impact crater when her life falls apart. Yes, I have made plans to expose to his wife when timing is prudent for me. This D cannot happen soon enough, but I just need to keep my cool and make sure it all goes smooth and equitable.

Good God, my life is a Lifetime movie!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She enjoys the crash and burn but has become reliant on you picking up 

the pieces. When she realizes you are not going to..... then it will get 

very interesting. Bet the farm on that....


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## WasHappyatOneTime (Nov 26, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> She enjoys the crash and burn but has become reliant on you picking up
> 
> the pieces. When she realizes you are not going to..... then it will get
> 
> very interesting. Bet the farm on that....


To amplify Chuck's wise words.

For YEARS... you've supplied relationship security.

It will be interesting to see what she does when you don't. And, you should stop providing it - today, if not sooner.

Enough is enough.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

WasHappyatOneTime said:


> To amplify Chuck's wise words.
> 
> For YEARS... you've supplied relationship security.
> 
> ...


Yeah...as I said before...I admit I have been a partner in this dysfunctional dance. There is definitely a break occurring between us...she is pretty much doing her own thing and I have developed, in a very short time, a whole new network of friends and support. 

Monday, I meet with court facilitator and plan on filing either same day or Tuesday...no later...then it will be about 120 days.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Good gracious FS. That IS sickening  So sorry.

She is deeply lost.

I agree that insulating yourself from her coming crater is wise.

Take great care of yourself. Allow your support to lend you their strength.

Many hands makes light work.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> Yeah...as I said before...I admit I have been a partner in this dysfunctional dance. There is definitely a break occurring between us...she is pretty much doing her own thing and *I have developed, in a very short time, a whole new network of friends and support.*
> 
> Monday, I meet with court facilitator and plan on filing either same day or Tuesday...no later...then it will be about 120 days.


Yeah! That's great.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Tough day today. Almost got into a big fight with STBXW after a little squabble...as we talked about how we want to divvy our assets and liabilities. It was averted from being bad with both of us recognizing our fears...hers: the fear of going out on her own without a safety net, mine: fear of getting screwed over. 

Still, before it was ironed out, we both bared some of our resentments...which left me feeling anxious and uneasy...combined with Friday's chemo injection. I am really tired of all of this.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She will not relinquish control over you willingly. Karl Marx said a similar verse 

in his Communist Manifesto in 1848. The Nice Guy days and "I Understand" 

days are over. You are the man....... show it, don't say it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Play the I'm sick card when you need it. It's real. It's not wimpy. Just don't play it when you are able to handle things. 

She needs to see stoicism from you. She needs to be told how wonderfully well she is going to do. You need to encourage her to step out in the world where she will find all she wants and needs. True or not, I think it's critical for a smooth transition and good negotiations. 

Please, other's chime in on what I'm attempting to say here. I find that she is quite afraid of life and needs a home base to rely on when she is not out satiating her need for self-deprecation. 

I think you figure out what you want and make it reasonably fair. Then, sell it like it's her ticket to a great life. Don't do it till you get some input on what I've written. 

I know the best way is to just do something like the 180, but I'm not sure you will help yourself by doing that because of her history. Of course, I could be wrong. I'm not saying to give her everything, more than you, or even to cater to her needs. I'm saying to make a fair deal and sell it like she's getting all she needs to feel secure. Make her feel secure with the offer you present through words and deeds. 

I don't mind being wrong. Just think about this and let others give their opinions. I don't want you hurting. I am hoping to speed things up. The easiest way is to let the attorneys hash it out and stay out of it.


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## WasHappyatOneTime (Nov 26, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> Tough day today. Almost got into a big fight with STBXW after a little squabble...as we talked about how we want to divvy our assets and liabilities. It was averted from being bad with both of us recognizing our fears...hers: the fear of going out on her own without a safety net, mine: fear of getting screwed over.
> 
> Still, before it was ironed out, we both bared some of our resentments...which left me feeling anxious and uneasy...combined with Friday's chemo injection. I am really tired of all of this.


When you observe all of this from 50k, what do you see?


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

WasHappyatOneTime said:


> When you observe all of this from 50k, what do you see?


Do you mean, what do I see if I step outside the situation? In that case, I think my life will have a whole less amount of drama when this ends.

Finishing up paperwork tonight and filing tomorrow.


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## WasHappyatOneTime (Nov 26, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> Do you mean, what do I see if I step outside the situation? In that case, I think my life will have a whole less amount of drama when this ends.
> 
> Finishing up paperwork tonight and filing tomorrow.


Actually, it's even more liberating than that sounds.

What you can observe is how people actually respond to you and how your internal emotions well up in response to them. THEN you decide whether to act on them - as opposed to simply submitting to some nonsense like 'that's just how I am"... or "that's just what I do".

Being your best involves thinking about being your best - and choosing your emotional responses.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Just filed the paperwork...and since we aren't contesting anything, 90 days mandatory wait period with next available court finalization date 6/15. 

Countdown clock has begun.

Right now, we are still cohabitating (separate bedrooms, separate lives), having agreed to stockpile cash so that she will have enough to get started on new life and I can have enough for incoming medical changeover (I'm on her plan, so getting divorce means no more discounted coverage thus I have to throw in for yet another max out of pocket which you hit pretty quickly with bi-weekly chemo injections). 

Anyway, we have been getting along okay, but we did have a row.

I know she has been acting out sexually online. Even though I don't necessarily attribute her initial desire to D because of her addiction, as I respected her decision to make a healthy step and move on, but my respect had since bottomed out with the discovery that she is ramping it up. 

The other night, I confronted her on an adult store charge that she responded was approved by her therapist to get a sex toy to help her deal with acting out thoughts. I knew she was going to handle it poorly, but I just wanted to gauge to see how honest she could be with me...in spite of how much I know about her being in a long distance relationship with another man with lots of sex chats and phone calls and photo exchanged. She sent him a pic of the adult toy she bought the day she got it.

Nope, not a single word of honesty came forth. 

I innocently asked her if she was acting out, if she was using other men again. She said no and then said I had no right to bring that up. This was her favorite thing to do: ask for a divorce of separation with the belief that since we are on the road to dissolution, that I have no leverage to influence her anymore...with a pattern of remorse and crying for reconciliation. (yes, this is a venting post) 

Now while I didn't adamantly demand rights for her to respect me as a husband in our argument, I did say that under God's eyes we are still married and that my conscience wouldn't allow me to not voice my concerns that she may be headed down the wrong path (as we have been very faith-based). But no, she says she is fine, is staying accountable to her therapist, not starting a relationship as she agreed with therapist not a good idea..."but even if I WAS in a new relationship, it is none of your business." I counter with, "So you ARE moving on...you are talking with other men...," which gets her mad and she storms off.

Later we smooth things out but I reaffirm that I am not trying to harangue her about staying in the marriage, not making it about US or ME...but I am at least trying to be her Christian brother and am worried about her drifting away. She says she no longer wants to talk about "religion" (a term she uses to de-personify and detach from what she once believed and lived out as having a relationship with Christ...another pattern)...and says again it is not my place. I say that I believe it is my place, however, I will respect the boundary she set and I will not bring it up again...but if she wants to talk, I am available. She says thank you. Conversation ends and we part just fine.

Of course, what does she tell other man(s)? _I flew in a rage...punched holes in wall._ WHAT?! This is the FIRST TIME she had ever talked bad about me that I know of...and especially to lie as to say I attacked her verbally and lost control as to punch at the walls?? I am beside myself. WHO DID I MARRY? Who is this women that I have known for almost twenty years?

I know her purpose isn't trying to build a court case that I am abusive...as we have not contested anything...so I am assuming that she is trying to build sympathy and I suppose bring out the White Knight in them for her game. She already texted that she had a health visit to urgent care (not true) and other white lies. 

I guess that is what I get for monitoring her little trysts, but it has helped me to navigate around this raging water so I'll continue just keep holding my cards close. I guess I need to make sure to pull in my hands and feet in the boat to avoid them getting bashed in these rapid...as the ride hasn't ended yet. I wondered if I may have tipped her off about my monitoring, but she is such in the fog and I have been acting so aloof and friendly that she thinks I am pretty much a clueless idiot...and has done nothing really to cover her tracks. If we didn't need to stockpile cash, I'd force her out now after this...but for now I am going to be very guarded.

I'm still blown away by her lie.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think you are doing extraordinarily well under the circumstances.

A few thoughts I had which I hope you take with a grain of salt or two:

Her therapist is being lied to and is enabling her.

The whole part about your confrontation with her made me think of this: Luke Chapter 18

Please don't take that reference to be a judgment of anyone. I don't know why I felt compelled to post it, but there must be a reason, right? 

The lie is what hurts you the most right now. 

CSA survivors, in my opinion, do this all the time. They need to do it for some reason. She likely has done that with any number of trysts. She likely has done that with folks you know, but who believe it necessary for her safety to keep silent until she can get out. It won't stop. It will become more frequent and grandiose. Don't be surprised if it eventually comes out in the open with the last guy she sees before the divorce. Don't be shocked if it somehow comes out in the divorce or before, at the urging of someone she meets who is affiliated with divorce actions and domestic violence laws and proceedings. She would need proof. She can have someone grab and squeeze her arms to leave finger marks, take pictures and blame it all on you. She wouldn't be the first. 

My thinking is that you need to end this now, before she has the chance to build a case against you. Do not trust that she won't. It's easy to do it today. 

I believe you are not abusing her. I would be surprised to find out it was true. Do carry a VAR and record all conversations. Place video cameras around that will record as necessary for proof of your innocence. Yes, you have to prove innocence in these cases. It is understandable since so many women are beaten to a pulp by their husbands and lovers. It's sickening. 

Keep monitoring her. 

Do not trust anything she says. You know that. 

Talk to your attorney about all of this and get his/her opinion. You need to protect yourself. Maybe there is a way to legally force her to leave? You will have to ask your attorney. Please do that before you take any further steps. Do it as soon as you possibly can.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Yeah, I don't trust her words at all now...which is why I have to keep my enemy close and monitor this until we part ways. Good news is now that we've filed, I have the temporary restraining order on my side, so she is not allowed to do anything funny with her finances...which is basically my main concern.

Other good news is that because of bankruptcy, cancer, and whatnot...we are living with my parents (meant to be temporary)...that there can be no corroboration to her lie to OM that I went on a rage and punched holes in the wall. 1) Parents always home and were home during our talk and can prove there was no argument of that magnitude...or of any magnitude. In fact, i never raised my voice, just spoke what was on my conscience in respect. 2) No holes in walls. I do have a VAR, so yes, I'll be recording conversations here on out and basically avoiding any further unnecessary interactions.

On a physical plane, the lies she says is _so_ out of character, but considering her affair partners have all been a part of her online videogaming...I think she created a reality and paradigm of her own with them, creating her ideal persona...and is using it to elicit the types of reactions from men she is looking for. She has been adept at creating narratives of her life to encourage certain responses. The guy she told the lie to lives all the way across the country. The guy who lives about 5 hours away...she _didn't_ tell him that lie...and is the one she is really getting serious with. They have not met because she is coming off like she is playing coy, but in reality, she is trying to drastically lose weight before she meets him face to face. 

Sigh. I am living with a teenager.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

That's good FormerSelf. It sucks too. Keep the faith. You will be alright, in the end. Keep trying to do things that you've enjoyed in the past, hobbies and fun things as much away from home on a regular basis, without seemingly abandoning home, that you can. Try to make some new acquaintances to chat. I think male friends who have good habits would be the best. Don't forget to take care of mum and dad. I'm sure they'd appreciate anything you did for them in kindness for appreciation. Mum must be hurting with all of this. I know, just reading it makes me sad. You will make it out the other side of this. I know you will. You can be assured of my prayers for you, your mum and dad, and even your wayward wife.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Wow...just wow.

Carry a VAR on you at all times. Keep calm and try to stay steady.
Yes, teenager would be accurate.

The club is good. We meet on Wednesdays.
We will teach you the secret handshake next meeting.

After meetings are fun...last time we all got hammered and invaded Carebears.com...


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

BTW...The First rule of Divorce Club...is never talk about Divorce Club...with married people.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

augh... so sorry this has unraveled this way... so not cool.

You just remain the person of integrity that you are. 

Just hoping the best for you.


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## WasHappyatOneTime (Nov 26, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> Sigh. I am living with a teenager.


Take a deep breath and prepare for the hard truth. Emotionally, she's not even that old. And, she's been "stuck" at this immature emotional age (when it comes to relationships) for a long long time.

All the acting out... all the cheating... this is how babies behave. But, she's big enough and old enough to do herself real harm. Observe your anger, it will pass. You'll eventually be able to forgive her - if that's your desire.

She has no desire to hurt you. In fact, the bitter truth is that she's now not thinking of you at all. But, that's not on you. It's her deal. And, as you can see, she is desperately trying to present the "perfect" face... of course, the "victim" face to the world. She despises herself so much that her emotions inform her that's the only way she can get attention or acceptance.

I feel for both of you. But, she's the one that's doomed. And, there's nothing you can do about it - even if you wanted to. And, I know you really really did.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She is punishing herself...... through you


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

No new developments, and that is a good thing. Other good news is that she is so sprung on her LTR, that she hasn't been giving me any new grief.

We are completely living separate lives although we are under the same roof.

I am getting a bone biopsy tomorrow and will be doing a skeletal survey sometime as well. If it all pans out, I'll start looking for work. Still, June 15th is Divorce Day...and STBX has already a place lined-up to move into by then.

So nothing has changed...still just toughing it out to stockpile cash...so I am going to do my best not to torpedo the situation by losing my cool.

She is a smooth one, I tell ya...really is on cloud 9 and in some major fog-denial. She is totally turning this guy into a white knight, dragging him into being her sex-addiction recovery support partner, yet is still having phone sex with him and he is a professed sex addict as well. How inappropriate is that? Two married people, both with sunken marriages, secretly having a very heated EA...oh yes, that is an ideal candidate for therapeutic support! "Healthy move", my arse. Good luck with that.

As for her desire to "Let's be friends", at least that has gone out the window. There are some areas which we still will need to cooperate with each other, but she really has no clue to what degree I will be writing her out of my life. Yet, she doesn't concern herself with such petty things...as she is solely thriving from the addictive euphoria...yet it's funny how it just disables her ability to function anywhere else. 

They haven't professed love to each other yet, but def. lots of talk and angling concerning not wanting to let each other go...awwww, how sweet....

She told me she is thinking of moving eventually to other said of state in a year or two(where this guy lives). I just ask, "Why?", just to see what her face looks like when it lies. 

"Oh just so I can live near water." 

I shrug. 88 days...88 days.....


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Yeah, she is likely going to put herself in a situation of more trouble. It's very sad. 

I will be saying a prayer for a great outcome on the test of yours. 

I can't say just how sad it makes me to think of what you are going through. I don't know what to even write. I'm so sorry for you. Take care of yourself and don't forget mum and dad. They are fantastic, so let them know. 

Yeah, best to just read her now and let the crazy fall on someone else. It sucks, but it will be the best thing for you, in the end. You will make out alright. I know it. You will be happy again.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Her behavior is ensuring you will not experience regret in making this decision down the road.

Take really good care of yourself.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Keep in mind.... when her play house falls apart

take a guess whose eyes she will be zeroed in on.

Be ready..... be prepared..... be at 50k feet!

Feed her fantasy for just 88 more days. Wiggle easy until your head is out 

of the lion's mouth


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Two more months to go until finalization. Things are still somewhat copacetic...although I am still maintaining some distant monitoring.

She has not been making any major lies, but enough white lies to make it look like I am pining and bitter...basically gunning to elicit a specific response from OM. 

Keeping VAR by my side from now on.

60 Days 9 Hours 3 Min


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> Two more months to go until finalization. Things are still somewhat copacetic...although I am still maintaining some distant monitoring.
> 
> She has not been making any major lies, but enough white lies to make it look like I am pining and bitter...basically gunning to elicit a specific response from OM.
> 
> ...


She has her pride. Ha!

She may even be having trouble holding onto this guy she's enamored with. I hope it holds out till after the divorce.

VAR by your side is a must. Cover your butt. That's what is important now.

Keep a lip upper stiff. Stay the course. Steady as she goes. Keep on keepin' on.

Hoping for your continued good health.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

56 days................ how are things on the home front?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

So sorry to hear it FS

I have a lot of respect for you. You seem like one of the more insightful, empathic, and understanding men on the board. (I still love you quote in my signature line if you don't mind my leaving it there...)

Reading through your experiences with your W, I could say some very similar things about my STBXH (except he was able to indulge his sex addiction within the M as there was an intact sexual life).

I wonder if you would identify with this? The Relationship between Empaths and Narcissists : The Spiritual Eclectic


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Your avatar makes me think of how the WS is stuck inside your head. Apropos


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> 56 days................ how are things on the home front?


Not too bad, to be honest. I am pretty busy these days...lots of volunteer time and spending time with some supportive friends. 

I have identified 4 target goals that I am actively working towards...but I do need to be more serious about creating a target for exercise and eating right. I don't eat horrible or even a lot, but it couldn't hurt to do more weight training and be more intentional with my meals.

There are so many more important things going on in the world than being offended by my STBXW...who is pretty much someone I don't even recognize anymore. I don't even feel mad at her anymore...I just can't have this sort of person in my life.

Thanks for asking!

55 Days 15 Hours 33 Min


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Blonde said:


> So sorry to hear it FS
> 
> I have a lot of respect for you. You seem like one of the more insightful, empathic, and understanding men on the board. (I still love you quote in my signature line if you don't mind my leaving it there...)
> *Thank you Blonde for the thoughtful response. *
> ...


*That article is worth rereading and mulling over for a bit. Bookmarking it right now. I do identify with some aspects of that article. Thanks for suggesting it!*


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

FS: You are anything but a "loser!" The only losing party in all of this is your STBXW; but I seriously doubt that she possesses even the minutest fortitude to be able to come to the stark realization that all that she really desires out of life is what is waiting out there in the greener pastures of life, more especially for her personal edification!

Never ever doubt yourself, FS! You are the true survivor in all of this; something that she will sadly come to realize in time, without being the least humanly forthright in ever telling you! 

Hang in there, my friend! Her loss is truly your gain!


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Rough day for me. I mean, I know I shouldn't be surprised nowadays, but someone that I looked up to for a long time, who seemed like the stable patriarch of a well-adjusted, faith-believing, and fight-it-out-through-thick-and-thin family...just admitted to me that he had just gotten a divorce. 

Even though I wasn't shocked horribly, I still found that I needed to process it through...which led me to be pretty pensive yesterday. It also helped me let my STBXW go just a little bit more.

52 Days 23 Hours 35 Min


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

FS........ these are the times we live in. Everywhere you look we are so more advanced than 

our predecessors..... but are we?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I can't even think of what to tell you this morning. It's just not easy to divorce. It's not easy to tear down what you believed in. It's not easy to tell yourself you didn't or do not now love someone. We can't just stop feeling. We can't just stop caring. Do we just learn to believe what we were receiving was love? Were we so desperate? I guess everyone is different. In the end, we are left with love we don't know what to do with. Anger and hate sitting on the see saw with us. Denial to pull us out of the dumps. Life to live. Friendships to build. Trust to give. Love to give. We expect nothing in return. Sometimes, we get just that. Sometimes, we receive it in measure. It goes on.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I can't even think of what to tell you this morning. It's just not easy to divorce. It's not easy to tear down what you believed in. It's not easy to tell yourself you didn't or do not now love someone. We can't just stop feeling. We can't just stop caring. Do we just learn to believe what we were receiving was love? Were we so desperate? I guess everyone is different. In the end, we are left with love we don't know what to do with. Anger and hate sitting on the see saw with us. Denial to pull us out of the dumps. Life to live. Friendships to build. Trust to give. Love to give. We expect nothing in return. Sometimes, we get just that. Sometimes, we receive it in measure. It goes on.


2nt.... I get exactly what you are saying. When reading this, I could not help but hear

this song playing in my head. It was very instrumental for me back in 1987

Sammy Hagar-Give to Live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Had7QGAbfwI


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

FS, I'm just curious... what tools are you using for monitoring?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> 2nt.... I get exactly what you are saying. When reading this, I could not help but hear
> 
> this song playing in my head. It was very instrumental for me back in 1987
> 
> ...


That's it. We give. We can't know what will come from it. We're not wrong for giving and not getting in return. It hurts sometimes. We make it somehow. We keep living. 

I guess I feel bad knowing the pain that is all a part of it and just wanted to say, "I hear you. You will make it."


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

When Cus was alive, Mike Tyson was the best boxer on the planet. He talked it... and walked it.

Anyone can talk a good game, he backed it up. Everytime Tyson stepped in the ring, he took

a chance at losing. You have to risk losing.... to win. Every human gets knocked down,

fact of life. It is all about how you pick yourself up... and keep on moving.

Most people see the Rocky sequels as cheesy... great messages in them.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I can't even think of what to tell you this morning. It's just not easy to divorce. It's not easy to tear down what you believed in. It's not easy to tell yourself you didn't or do not now love someone. We can't just stop feeling. We can't just stop caring. Do we just learn to believe what we were receiving was love? Were we so desperate? I guess everyone is different. In the end, we are left with love we don't know what to do with. Anger and hate sitting on the see saw with us. Denial to pull us out of the dumps. Life to live. Friendships to build. Trust to give. Love to give. We expect nothing in return. Sometimes, we get just that. Sometimes, we receive it in measure. It goes on.


Good words. Love is definitely a risk...if it wasn't a risk, we wouldn't get the same euphoric reward when we engage in relationships. It sucks getting burned, but it sure as heck wizened me up this past year.



GusPolinski said:


> FS, I'm just curious... what tools are you using for monitoring?


No tools...I just know a passcode that she has been too much in the fog to bother to change. I have actually ended monitoring on regular basis...mainly because the exchanges between her and OM are irritatingly stupid on an intolerable level. I just randomly peruse for anything that may concern me...the rest is just sewage.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> They have not met because she is coming off like she is playing coy, but in reality, she is trying to drastically lose weight before she meets him face to face.


You know her too well. She resents that you see so much so clearly but she figures that what you do not know proves that she has won independence. But as Chuck says she is going to end up in some dysfunctional crash and burn drama. Who will she thinks of off the bat?

Once your divorce is final you need to eliminate all communication other than taxes.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

30 Day countdown until move-out day.

34 Days 17 Hours until finalization.

Very surreal this is happening...like I am emerging from a very long bad dream. Very much looking forward to my new life...which to a large degree has already begun. New friends, new experiences, new goals.

Still, last night, I had a dream that I was lambasting my STBX over her "willful ignorance" and mocking her that OM has a "tiny penis-shaming fetish". (which actually is true). In the dream, she broke down in shame and started sobbing. I take it it means I still have some anger and looking for satisfaction and that bouncing back is going to take time...in spite of how involved and active I have been. My STBX on the other hand, is planning for her future life with Mr. Tiny Penis. 

Ironic that my wife was the one wanting to be dominated, but now has been redirected to accommodate a grown man's desire to have his pee-pee shamed like a child. Folks, I can't make this stuff up.

Again, I am happy to soon be far, far away from all of this.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Home stretch FS...... home stretch. Know what that means?

Double down for some fallback..... disordered people never go out quietly

You are aware why she went for this guy don't you.... or if you don't care, I'll hush-up about it.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> You are aware why she went for this guy don't you.... or if you don't care, I'll hush-up about it.


The question does cross my mind...


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She submitted to something she did not even want, aka small wanker.

For a submissive... that is a huge rush.

With the D near.... she knew submission had to come in some form or another


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Not as rough feeling as I thought it would be, but it does feel a little strange having nothing to celebrate this Memorial Day weekend. Today is STBX's birthday and our 18th wedding anniversary tomorrow. 

I got plans for a big chunk of the day tomorrow to help with a fundraising carwash, so that ought to help keep mind off of things.

23 Days 12 Hours 2 Min


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

From 1989-2014.... always had that special girl for Memorial Day.... minus 1997.

Yes I feel extremely odd as well. I am seeing a few women but, it's not like anything noteworthy. 

That one year..... '97...... started out bad but ended up being one of the greatest years

of my life. I met my XW, at her best. I climbed Mt. Everest .... saw the view.

Will I see it again.... who knows.... but I did see it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Keep as busy as possible on those days and mingle with good people. Try to laugh and have a little fun with others. Enjoy the volunteering. Don't take it too seriously and make if as fun as possible. Treat yourself to something nice that you enjoy for fun with some others, if possible. Force yourself to have some fun. 

I feel similarly around these holidays and former special occasions. I did not do these things, so my perspective is from what not to do, which is, do not do nothing. Force yourself to make the day a memorable occasion and replace those feelings associated with the old life with similar feelings associated with new experiences, if possible.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I just caught up with this thread, brother. I just want to say that you are to be commended for how long you fought, and that you are fighting the big C while separating from her. 

A lot of folks would fold when faced with this much.

I hear nothing but fight in you, brother.

You rock.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

21 days........ 21 days


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks farsidejunky

2nt...yep that is pretty much what I have been doing...staying busy, but not necessarily staying busy for busy's sake for I am taking this newfound freedom to do things _well_out of my comfort zone. I am back at volunteering with gang/at-risk youth and I just gave a 45 min teaching at local men's shelter the other day. 

Chuck71...it feels so surreal that D is three weeks away. This is someone that I basically have spent close to half of my life with.

18 years. Wow.

I have still been wearing the ring...in a way that I was still honoring my vow. But today, being my final official anniversary with STBX...I have just removed the ring. I don't mean that I am jumping back into the market, it just means that I have done my time. Just gonna keep on pressing forward!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Did a 15+ year sentence myself. You will go through many changes. But in your case, healthy

ones. This time is yours now. Double down until it is final. Avoid any Hail Marys from her.

Look towards the light... what I did. Worked wonders. The day of D final, get together with friends

and have a party. Not to be sarcastic but to.... start a new beginning.

Look forward to seeing you in LaD brother!!


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Wow...15 Days.

I know I should be feeling like this:









But right now, it feels like this:


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I joke often about my XW. I also admit.... I miss what we had a long time ago.

At one time... she was the most amazing person I had ever met. I also.... saw her...at her worst.

You have to take the good with the bad but when the bad evens or exceeds the good,

what is in this for you. The title of Holy Roman Emperor was recognized until 1806....

even though Constantinople fell in 1453. Always cherish her at her best.... but realize

that woman is dead. Let the remaining, rotting corpse walk on.... out of your life.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

What's in it for you is the start of a new life where you can do things you thought you might not get a chance to do. All those things you figured you would just let slide since she didn't like doing them can now be done. You don't have to ask or wonder if what you did is okay with her or will cause her some kind of scheduling problems. You will be able to date women just for fun. You don't have to think about anything more than how to have fun with them. And, if they don't like what you are doing together, you don't have to worry you can just find another date. 

If you always wanted to go horseback riding and camping, but she didn't like the outdoors, you can do that now. If she didn't like riding trains, but you always wanted to take a long train ride with stops across the country, you can do that now. You don't have to ask anyone. If you always wanted to go fishing, but she thought fish were slimy, you can do that now. You can make a list of the things you always wanted to try and never got the chance while married. Go do those things for starters. Make them your goal. Have fun with them. 

You will find your way. These are my thoughts. They are just suggestions off the top of my head. Each of us has to find things we enjoy.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)




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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I wouldn't be averse to saying that my whole life is perspective. Whatever I think it is, I can probably prove.

Edit and unrelated: Sharon Stone is so hot in that. I'm salivating just looking at that. Holy cow.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

STBX has moved out today. Feeling a myriad of emotions...not really able to do much today. Can't focus.

I am holding it together, but this is tough. I always thought it was going to be hard, but then entered a season of looking forward to it, but these last few weeks I have certainly felt a dread and emptiness.

Narrowly avoided a rebound situation...I say narrowly because I did make out with a women emerging from a similar predicament after too much wine together a few days ago, she being the initiator and I the willing participant, but pulled myself away before going too far. I have since then gone back and communicated to her that I can't do that. Not sure if we will be able to successfully revert back to platonic friendship, which I desire...and she says she _will_ accept my boundaries, but I am thinking it will be unlikely and I will have to release that friendship.

Drunk and lonely is not a good combination...I was hesitant to mention this here, but there are very few people I know that I would share this with. That didn't help with these overwhelming feelings...just adding more complication to the pile of my crumbling life. 

Divorce being finalized on Monday.

I'm such a mess.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You've came through this journey a lot better than you originally anticipated. It's always toughest at the end.

The night before my D was final.... I had plenty of 2nd thoughts. But I knew, in the end, it was 

the best thing for me to do. I get the drinking and being lonely....

I drink at times and even though I am seeing different females, I am..... lonely.

I don't feel the connection with any of them. You need to heal from this nightmare.

It is a long and slow process.... you'll get there


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Chuck is correct. You will get there. Well, at least you know how much alcohol will affect your mood. I avoid it altogether now. I've spoken about liking certain beers, whisky and wines, but rarely partake. I mean like the last beer I had was 2012. The last wine was maybe 2013 and those were minimal amounts. I just don't want to go there now. I feel better so I don't need it. 

Anyway, you will be alright. If you can exercise, do so as much as possible. Stay away from starches and foods which are white. Yes, that's true. Eat dark green leafy vegetables, berries which are dark, walnuts, almonds, and there are a few others. Stay away from too much sugar or caffeine. They will make you feel better, but also make you crash hard. Caffeine can be used to lift you out of a really dark mood, but take it easy on it, so you don't crash hard. Don't drink a pot of tea or coffee when you need a lift. Just a cup will help enough, and only when you have to.

There are other foods that will help, but that's all I can recall at the moment. 

Try to get 8 hours sleep a night. I know that may be asking too much right now. 

Find things like movies, cartoons, music and movie shorts or comedy routines to bring you up once in a while. Stay away from sad music when possible.

I can't emphasize exercise enough. Physical exercise will get your adrenaline flowing and other mood chemicals. It will make you feel better and keep you in shape. Do whatever you are able. Anything will help, even just a walk outside. 

Meet people through those meet-up groups if you are not sure what to do. Go to places where you can talk with others. You don't have to share all of this, just talk about anything else. It's just to be physically with others.

Hang in there FS. I know you will be okay. It is tough. You will pull through and be happy again. You will. I'm really routing for you.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks guys. Nice hearing from those who have been there.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Also, make a list of things you might have thought were a whim before. Cross off impossible activities and attempt to do some of the ones that get you out of your comfort zone and make you feel alive, force concentration, make you strain a little and test your limits. Nothing crazy FS, just things you might not have attempted before that are not dangerous or illegal. Push the limits a little. I hope you know what I mean. Don't try to jump ten buses or the grand canyon on a motorcycle. Don't try to climb one of those mountains up the sheer cliff or anything either. Unless that's your thing and you know how. You can start that at a gym somewhere if that is what you want. I think you know what I mean.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Even though.... I knew it was over with my XW, it still hurt. At the end,

I kept thinking about all those times she was wonderful. There were many 

times she was... but that part of her died. When I was at my lowest point,

I fasted and stopped drinking any form of alcohol. I resumed each when I felt

I had a grasp on things, or at least a semi-healthy one. I rose from the depths

of the dead, to live again. I'm not special... you will do this as well. At one time,

this BSC corpse was a great person and YOU saw her at her best. No one

else in the world will ever be able to say this. Remember when you and her

first started to date... a guy friend would say 'what if she "turns BSC" and changes'

what did you tell them? You spoke then the truth because at that moment....

she did not hold your heart and you could think clearly. Once you begin to see

with your new eyes and reflect.... you will wonder WTF did I stay that damn long.

I promise you will... and I hope you tell us about how it felt.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Just thought of this. Make plans on days that were important and do something fun that gives them new good memories.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

FS,

I really think you know all of this, but I wouldn't feel right if I didn't post it. Some of it, I've already posted here on this page. This just has some more detail and options. 



Here's an article I posted in another thread. Maybe it will help you further. 

Don?t Fall for Infidelity | World of Psychology

Make new single friends. Do things that place you in some kind of authority, start small. Offer to do things you might not have before. Volunteer at the local food bank, homeless shelter, or another charity. 

I believe this is the international site for meetups. I'm not sure where you live and don't need to know. You may find new friends with similar interests in one or more groups. Is it a reach for a guy who already has friends? Yes, in some ways, but it may help a man stuck with a group of friends who are married and isn't sure where to start. It's at least worth looking at in your area.

International Friends Meetups - Meetup I believe that's the site. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.

Definitely read NMMNG. Then you can move on to others as you see fit. If it doesn't fit you, you haven't lost anything. I think most men find something that fits them in there. I've listened to the audio book a couple times. You have to want to make changes in yourself and work toward those. It's not just a read and then all is well. There is living what you believe and practicing that in all things.

Stay away from alcohol altogether for a little while. It is a depressant and will bring you down. Sugar and caffeine will lift you high and then drop you like a hot potato. You will feel worse after you come down. Caffeine can lift you out of deep despair, but it should only be used when you are at your lowest. Drink only a cup of tea or coffee, not a pot. 

Keep going to see a therapist/counselor. Get meds if you need them to help with depression or anything a doctor believes you need. 

Stay away from starchy foods or what I call white foods. White rice, white potatoes, white bread, and so on, They will also cause some mood swings. 

Eat dark green leafy vegetables, dark berries, lean and if possible meat that comes from animals who have not been fed hormones or other chemical additives to their food. 

Look up some diets and consult your doctor to be certain nothing will conflict with any meds or be unhealthy.

Get out among friends or make new ones. Push yourself to do things which challenge you a little, but don't do things that are dangerous or illegal.

You can also volunteer with your church or if you don't do church, volunteer with Habitat for Humanity.

Don't stay idle. It will only make you dwell on things you don't need to worry about. Keep busy. 

Watch humorous television when you have to or something that isn't related to sad stories. Listen to music that motivates you or makes you laugh. Stay away from sad songs. 

One step at a time and perseverance will help you. 

Exercise is your friend. It will increase adrenaline and keep you healthy. I believe I don't need to tell you that. I just had to post it for my own self-respect. 

If you keep your mind in the present, it will help you. The past is gone. The future is not written. Live the best life you can for today. Tomorrow will take care of itself. Do that each day and the good will more than outweigh the bad. 

Make new fun memories on the days that have some old significance. The new memories will replace the old and you will feel good on those days with this as a regular practice. 

Read the books suggested to you for self-help. If you are not sure, ask your therapist. Don't overwhelm yourself trying to do all of this list at one time. One step at a time is all it takes. Just keep taking those steps, marching forward. 

Confronted with something new? Make the best decision you can at the time and let it go. You can only work with what you know and move on to the next thing that comes up. There is no shame in making mistakes. We all do it. 

Live your life the best you can. That's all you can do. No one can live it for you or make your decisions. You will be alright and happier, if you control your own life and worry about your health first. You will then have something to give to others. 

You can do it.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I feel like I am coming out of a storm-cellar after a destructive tornado, looking at all of the aftermath. My STBX has cleared out and now there is just a trickle of things that she left behind. Being with her, it has always been chaotic...her being someone who was never contented...always having a reason upend things when there was no reason.

I think my emptiness has a lot to do with codependency, as I had occupied myself with managing that tornado for so long. Now the storm has passed and I have to rebuild...and not look for another tornado to lasso. So basically, I am now tasked with pulling myself together and finding out who I am.

I have enjoyed making new friends and volunteering at my church and with a local teen organization. My pastor had already noted I have been blue lately and have been supportive through this big change in my life. Still, I am feeling the temptation to fall away and disappear...as my emotions are hard to manage and whenever you deal with people, there are challenges...which, right now, I am too sensitive to want to deal with them. But, I have been staying in the game.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Being as busy as possible with other things unrelated will help.

See your doctor about depression meds.

As soon as possible, get rid of any furnishings related to life with her. Paint the house or as much as you can and redecorate. Replace furniture, lamps, paintings and pictures, curtains and drapes or window dressings. Buy a new televisions, computer, stereo, and even replace your vehicle. Purchase new bedding and pillows, sheets and blankets. Change bath soaps and colognes. Replace eyewear and get a new haircut. Check into barbershops in your area and if available, make an appointment for the full works, then go out to dinner at a nice establishment. 

If you cannot afford all of that, do what you can. Painting is reasonable and you can do it yourself. Clean the mattress thoroughly, flip it over, and replace the sheets and pillows. Sell what you can in a yard sale or just give it to the veterans, Goodwill, or the Salvation Army. Let them have whatever is still decent. 

Do all you are able and as soon as you are able. It will help you to move forward and leave the past behind. Yes, this is tough to do, so do what you can and don't stress about the rest. 

Go through papers and documents and shred or trash what you don't need. Get rid of all those things that might cause you to remember what you no longer need in your life. 

You can do it. Take your time and do what you can. Get one thing done and move to the next, one day at a time.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Being as busy as possible with other things unrelated will help.
> 
> See your doctor about depression meds.
> 
> ...


All very good advice.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Today is the day.

We're number 39 on the docket, so it could be a little while.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

You made the journey. :smthumbup:

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Sad it had to end this way but you tried..... more than I would have.

Look forward to hearing from you later this evening


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

It wasn't too bad. 

It's funny, because even though XW (it's official) was the one who filed, I did all of the work. XW was a little scrambled and fearful today, but all of the prep-work I did made it go real smooth. 

We were out after about 2 hours, but our divorce decree only took two minutes if that. Judge actually thanked us for making it easy for them.

After that we said our goodbyes. It was tougher a few days ago when she moved out, but it still is hard. I'm just letting it go. I don't care what she does or who she was seeing. She was telling me how well her career has been going, which suits me fine, but I did feel some pain knowing I helped her all these years to get to that place and then to get left behind. That is probably what will sting for a little while.

"I know it's not a game. But it feels like losing when someone you love throws you away..." ~Ryan Adams


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Proud as he!!, proud as he!!.... you made it. Oh yeah.... it hurt, read my last dozen posts

from Crossroads Sink or Swim from Jan / Feb 2013.... that was my D final. I knew it was best, I knew I was growing,

I knew brighter days were ahead but..... it still hurt like he!!. God must have been watching over

me because by April 2013, I was entertaining UG and playing the guitar on the deck at 1AM....

I was...... born again


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Glad it worked out okay.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

FormerSelf said:


> It wasn't too bad.
> 
> It's funny, because even though XW (it's official) was the one who filed, I did all of the work. XW was a little scrambled and fearful today, but all of the prep-work I did made it go real smooth.
> 
> ...


Heal well...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks everyone! Got a lot accomplished today getting finances and things in order. Just going to take this new reality one day at a time.

I must confess I am exhausted after all of thus...some being emotional exhaustion and the rest being from lack of sleep. Still lots of affairs to put into order, but so far so good.

I really want to take a nap now...but not quite done!!!

Otherwise, I suppose this thread had run its course. It had been very helpful for me to have an outlet for venting and lamenting.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

FormerSelf said:


> Narrowly avoided a rebound situation...I say narrowly because I did make out with a women emerging from a similar predicament after too much wine together a few days ago, she being the initiator and I the willing participant, but pulled myself away before going too far. I have since then gone back and communicated to her that I can't do that. Not sure if we will be able to successfully revert back to platonic friendship, which I desire...and she says she _will_ accept my boundaries, but I am thinking it will be unlikely and I will have to release that friendship.


Well, it happened as I foresaw. I still operated under a degree of naivete...thinking we could remain platonic, but it was too torturous for her. Red flag being that we have only been friends for a few weeks. Matter probably worth starting on another thread, but I thought I'd close this thread out on this. Emotional vulnerability is sure dangerous ground.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Please post here what your new thread is.......... so we can follow your progress


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