# Controlling jealousy vs. "trust your gut"



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

There are several threads around here from both sides
On one side you see threads by spouses affected from extreme jealousy in their partners, every move is examined and watched, accusations fly, they start to alter their behavior according to avoid setting off their spouse (not wearing certain clothing, not seeing friends or family, etc) 
The advice for these people is almost always that he/she is possessive, controlling and that it can often be an abusive situation that he/she needs to leave. You shouldn't have to live like that.

One the other side you have threads from spouses who are accusing, examining, watching, and being set off by certain normal behaviors.
The advice for these people is almost always "Trust your gut. Keep digging, if he/she doesn't like it they must be hiding something" even if nothing is found. 

Isn't that encouraging behavior that the other spouse shouldn't be having to tolerate? Why is there such a difference in the advice depending on which side is posting? And at what point does "trust your gut" become "You are being controlling, stop"


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

2 things I have learned. Humans, and honestly women seem to have it more, have wonderful instincts. it's our subconscious telling us things that our conscious just can't or won't see. The problem becomes that we, as people, talk ourselves out of our instincts all the time. This isn't just in the relationship world either.

So yes some people will over react with jealousy based on their own insecurities or fears. But far far more will have an instinct that something is wrong and ignor it only to be proven right. I think that's where the advice here comes from because we have all had they "damn it I knew something was going on" moment.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Do you feel that a loyal spouse should deal with living under extreme jealousy situations because in many cases the jealous spouse is right?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

That trust your gut thing isn't nearly as accurate as it's supposed to be.

There was a thread this past weekend in which the wife wrote an abbreviated list of a few years of confronting her husband for all contacts he has had with female friends. Some of those were no doubt infidelity but some were probably not. She just jumped on him for every single female contact she discovered. The classic philandering husband with wife who goes nuts about everything. She should not be trusting her gut. She probably came off as a controlling wife to those close to them.

On the other hand, it seems like a lot of husband's are kind of out of touch with the state of their relationship until something drastic happens or changes. Like they go through their days some what oblivious to the disconnect happening at home. Those guys don't notice their marriage isn't healthy until she's practically kissing the other man on her doorstep after dates. Those kind of guys don't have a gut to trust. 

Controlling/jealousy vs being in touch with your spouse can be a delicate line that some people only get close to when they fall on it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Paranoid, controlling, possessive people are likely to lose their spouses at some point. Not everyone is willing to take responsibility for a partner's emotional safety forever.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe "trust your gut" is the same as "how would you like to be treated."

If you like to hang out with your special OSF one on one and late at night, then you won't mind when your partner does it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Maybe "trust your gut" is the same as "how would you like to be treated."
> 
> If you like to hang out with your special OSF one on one and late at night, then you won't mind when your partner does it.


And on the other hand, would the jealous partner like to be constantly recorded, spied on, have their underwear examined, followed,and given the 3rd degree and questioned - for months- if they buy a new shirt or get a hair cut? 

I don't think that living under that kind of pressure and suspicion is healthy for anyone and I don't think anyone would be happy having to live like that yet it is encouraged to many people to do it to their spouse.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
your "gut" can be completely wrong, much better to use your brain.

Remember that there is no certainty in life. Right now a tiny lump of damaged cells could be growing in your lungs - too small to detect, but it will kill you someday. But if you stress constantly about your health you will be miserable - and you will still die someday. In fact the stress may kill you faster.

Your partner may be cheating on you and you can't tell. Your suspicion will if anything make it more likely that they will cheat.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

I think a spouse is responsible for their behaviors that may trigger their spouse.
You know when you cross that line.

I think in a healthy marriage, one must always be on guard to protect the marriage. It is a living breathing and growing relationship that cannot be put on auto pilot.

Do not put your spouse in the position of suspecting inappropriate behavior. Or suffer the consequences of snooping, confrontation and ultimatums. AND an upset, sad, jealous, controlling soon to be EX spouse.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

DoneWithHurting said:


> Do not put your spouse in the position of suspecting inappropriate behavior. Or suffer the consequences of snooping, confrontation and ultimatums. AND an upset, sad, jealous, controlling soon to be EX spouse.


With so many things being "red flags" for cheating, anything from deciding to start going to the gym, feeling and saying your emotional needs aren't being met, having a GNO/BNO to going to the bathroom after work can be considered suspect. 
A spouse shouldn't live in fear that random activities will be met with consequences and a controlling spouse. 
At what point it is on the spouse suspecting and not the spouse being suspected?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

I've read some interesting articles on 'gut feeling' and intuition and how the subconscious mind may play it's part,as it stores all of our memories. So if a person has been a part of,or even on the periphery of infidelity in the past they may get cues from their subconscious that something may not be right. Maybe like others have said before,we are the sum of our experiences,even the ones we are consciously unaware of that have been a part of our past. Personally,I never ignore my gut feeling without some investigation.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Some old wisdom: You don't have to eat the whole pot of soup to know that it's salty.

Also, it's often that all of us to need to make decisions before we have perfect knowledge. So we need to learn to enhance our intuition.


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## anne1208 (Nov 16, 2015)

I believe that both are overly simplified answers to complex problems. Sometimes your gut says one thing and it's true. Sometimes your gut says one thing and it's sooooo off base. Sometimes your gut says one thing and it's bc your partner is creating an environment of unease where its naturally to not feel safe, but at the end of the day the partner is doing it unintentionally and they are in fact a loyal person. 

The only certainty in a relationship where one of both people don't feel completely safe and at ease is that somebody is doing something to cause that unease, and it needs to be addressed. It's wrong to always hear somebody express suspicions about their partner and tell that person "well trust your gut youre probably right". Its also wrong to hear a person say their partner isnt trusting them and to say "oh that person is controlling and insecure you need to get out!" There is always the possibility that the untrusting partner is totally in their own heads and creating problems where there are none and damaging their relationships based solely on their own baggage or insecurities and there are times when an otherwise loyal partner is doing a lot to contribute to the other person being suspicious. 

Moral of the story is if you feel compelled to respond on these forums with a knee-jerk garden variety reaction and not engaged in any critical thinking and produce meaningful insight, then don't respond.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Always trust your gut.

The key is to know the difference between instinct and anxiety. 

It is literally a body sensation thing for me. Anxiety I feel is in the top of my sternum, a tightening of the chest, a tensing of the shoulders. 

Instinct is further down, for me - the hara or centre of gravity. It is also very quiet... Unless something is very wrong. Meditation helps. 

My anxiety has been wrong many times. 

My instinct has never been wrong to my knowledge. 

I'm also an empiricist, so instinct alone isn't enough to cause accusation - but enough to pay attention and seek further data.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

It seems my "instincts" were wrong on two occasions. With OM1, I felt certain she was sleeping with him, I would have bet my life. Late nights away from home/work, not answering my calls, talking about him constantly. The worst was when she came home unexpectedly during the workday to get some tools to help work on his car. She never had done this before so I was certain they were sleeping together. And he was her type. Turns out, thru confirmation by many parties who I believe, they never got physical.

OM2 was totally not her type. On the 4-5 times I interacted with him, my instincts made me believe I had nothing to worry about. He was a drunk and such as arrogant narcissist I felt "no way" could there be anything between these two. I was dead wrong. Totally physical relationship for YEARS, confirmed by many. There were others but I was not around to observe/detect/sense.

My instincts were 0 for 2, and I still blame myself for getting it wrong. I should have been the jealous, a-hole husband.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

DoneWithHurting said:


> I think a spouse is responsible for their behaviors that may trigger their spouse.
> You know when you cross that line.
> 
> I think in a healthy marriage, one must always be on guard to protect the marriage. It is a living breathing and growing relationship that cannot be put on auto pilot.
> ...



I agree.

If you sort out the over the top nutsy jealous types as they are another level, many of the jealous postings you see on TAM have something that's driving it and the suspicion is warranted or at least fostered by someone's action.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe I should introduce another method of analysis. Would it be called intuition or hisotry.

Just like the "cheater's script" here fits 90% of the situations here.

When I was dating my (future) husband, due to past experiences, I was able to predict that his special friend would advise him to dump and would have a T-Day dinner party. I was right on both counts. Thankfully, I insisted that we spend Thanksgiving together (we had been dating for 5 months by then)

After I found more information about the things that he paid for for her, I just asked him point blank, did she advise you to make me pay on dates. And he admitted that yes, she did.

IMO, the range of human emotions, behaviors and motivations is just not that broad.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jdawg2015 said:


> I agree.
> 
> If you sort out the over the top nutsy jealous types as they are another level, many of the jealous postings you see on TAM have something that's driving it and the suspicion is warranted or at least fostered by someone's action.


Many, yes but not all and there is a big different IMO between checking for cheating for, say, a month, and living like that for a year+ with no proof found.

Like I see nothing wrong with doing a quick check and snoop to see if anything is wonky.
There is something wrong, IMO, with doing it constantly for months-years on end even when no solid proof is found.

I think that it can become abusive and while very few people would suggest to do things like call your spouse a name or smack them, a lot more do suggest forcing this kind of control and spying for long periods of time despite no proof of infidelity. 

One big red flag for cheating is accusations of cheating. Sometimes it's just a way for the spouse to ease their guilt if they say you are. So if you go by your own logic, everyone who thinks their spouse is cheating should also be the target of such spying. 

Honestly, would you want to live with every single one of your conversations being recorded, at work, at home, with your friends and listened to by your spouse? 

Would you want to live with every single word you typed on the internet being read by your spouse?- yes here too.

Would you want to live with your bathroom times and underwear being examined, watched and then posted about to a group of strangers?

How long would you be ok living like? If you told a friend that this was happening in your home, what do you think they would say about it? That's totally normal, you gave them reason to doubt you or He/she is super controlling and you need to get out of there?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Do you feel that a loyal spouse should deal with living under extreme jealousy situations because in many cases the *jealous spouse is right?*


So In other words if they suspect that their spouse is cheating should they put thier other spouse in extreme jealously situations?

Depends... Is thier an honest reason they should be suspicious? Was thier cheating in the past?, emotional affair, something inappropriate that occurred. Extreme jealous usually comes form 3 places. Pain caused by current partner, pain caused by a past partner, or pain and jealous caused from a weak and insecure personality trait


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> So In other words if they suspect that their spouse is cheating should they put thier other spouse in extreme jealously situations?
> 
> Depends... Is thier an honest reason they should be suspicious? Was thier cheating in the past?, emotional affair, something inappropriate that occurred. Extreme jealous usually comes form 3 places. Pain caused by current partner, pain caused by a past partner, or pain and jealous caused from a weak and insecure personality trait


So knowing that the paranoia could be coming just from their own weakness, do you think it's ok to give a blanket "trust your gut" and advise to use snooping methods - for months to years recording every word said, typed, examine every single thing they wear, do, say, stopped allowing or giving the 3rd degree to every outing, every event, every second you had to work a little late or got stuck in traffic- on their spouse?

If your own spouse thought hey, my husband is on the computer a lot and suspected cheating, would you be ok with having those methods done to you for an extended amount of time? 

How long would you put up with it before you considered it abusive and controlling behavior?


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## bruce123 (Nov 17, 2015)

to my own point of view being jealous means cheating because both works together because for those who jealous too much means they doing something that they dont want any other person to do for them thats my own point of view and if you truly want to find out i think through FACEBOOK WHATSAPP TWITTER SKYPE check all this and am sure you going to find out something and understand what am trying to say okay. and if you dont mind i can hack all that for you to check it to be able to have access to all that to know if your spouse cheating on you or not


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So knowing that the paranoia could be coming just from their own weakness, do you think it's ok to give a blanket "trust your gut" and advise to use snooping methods - for months to years recording every word said, typed, examine every single thing they wear, do, say, stopped allowing or giving the 3rd degree to every outing, every event, every second you had to work a little late or got stuck in traffic- on their spouse?
> 
> If your own spouse thought hey, my husband is on the computer a lot and suspected cheating, would you be ok with having those methods done to you for an extended amount of time?
> 
> How long would you put up with it before you considered it abusive and controlling behavior?


 Guess I'm not getting this thread. Either they have a legitimate reason to be suspicious or they don't. So which is it? If you have never ever cheated or been unfaithful then you are dealing with someone who has some problems. You can't expect sanity from someone who isn't 

Also would be no need for all these check up devices on my devices. I am for full disclosure which means my wife could check my facebook,email,phone anytime she pleased. I have nothing to hide
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Also would be no need for all these check up devices on my devices. I am for full disclosure which means my wife could check my facebook,email,phone anytime she pleased. I have nothing to hide
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ditto.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm with the trust your gut on this. A few years ago I was in a relationship, and something just didn't feel right. I had a feeling he was seeing an old gf but couldn't be sure. One night the opportunity presented itself to check his phone. My instincts were SCREAMING at me...I became "that girl" and checked his phone. I was devastated at what I found. My gut was right. I'll never forget the feeling when I realised I was right - it was like I was shaking on the inside...

I'm not a jealous person, and have never had that feeling in any other relationship I've been in - including with a soldier who was posted overseas for a time. 

Glad I trusted my gut. The guy turned out to be a douche, and I deserve better.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> Maybe I should introduce another method of analysis. Would it be called intuition or hisotry.
> 
> Just like the "cheater's script" here fits 90% of the situations here.
> 
> ...


Yep. Humans are extremely predictable.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

It's a catch 22. They may leave you because you're overly jealous, or they may leave you because they're cheating on you.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

I think the gut is a very good indicator for the vast majority of us. When something feels off, there's usually some substance too it.
This issue is how to deal with it. That's a whole different discussion.

Often times on TAM you see where the person doing the betraying is able to twist and distort so the betrayed looks like either a jealous nut or paranoid (classic gaslighting).


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I tend toward "trust your gut" but I've also been the falsely accused girlfriend of a guy with controlling jealousy to the point of punching walls.

My biggest "trust your gut" had nothing to do with cheating but with my son, 15-16 at the time. He went to a friends house one night with other friends and called about 11pm and asked if could crash at his friends house. I was going to say yes but then something just screamed out at me, "Do not have him spend the night". I said no, "I'm going to pick you up right now." He was terribly drunk and spent the rest of the night puking in the bathroom and had hangover the next day. If he had stayed the night he probably would've kept drinking and who knows what would've happened.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

soccermom2three said:


> I tend toward "trust your gut" but I've also been the falsely accused girlfriend of a guy with controlling jealousy to the point of punching walls.
> 
> My biggest "trust your gut" had nothing to do with cheating but with my son, 15-16 at the time. He went to a friends house one night with other friends and called about 11pm and asked if could crash at his friends house. I was going to say yes but then something just screamed out at me, "Do not have him spend the night". I said no, "I'm going to pick you up right now." He was terribly drunk and spent the rest of the night puking in the bathroom and had hangover the next day. If he had stayed the night he probably would've kept drinking and who knows what would've happened.


At some point, you will realise what messages you were getting subconciously and where they were coming from. 

I'm interested in stuff like this, so when those thoughts crystallise, come back and tell us what they were.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I can only speak from my experience in broad generalizations but I find women to be on the whole more _ predictive_ and men are in the whole more _ reactive_ . They base their decisions primarily off of those two states of being. This is why I believe (again, in general) that women talk and men do. The kinds of gut reactions that are felt by men and women differ, I believe. Women's gut reactions are more based on interpretation of perceived changes in emotional states. Men's gut reactions are more based upon things that have actually occurred.

There is merit and importance for both types in nature, and no doubt there are more types I haven't explored, but if you read the stories from CWI more closely, written from the male or female perspective, you will find that in many cases, the underlying source of the "gut" reactions come from either a tangible or intangible event. 

There are always outliers, so this as I said is just a generalization. I, for instance, am extremely predictive in my thinking, but life and experience has taught me to also pay attention to what is actually occurring, so that my hamster can run only so far. It's actually a challenge for me to have that kind of balance, but I appreciate its way of giving me a more wholesome outlook. At least, that's what I believe it provides.


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