# Inappropriate wife?



## Perfectlynot

Am I unreasonable? My husband and I were invited to a yard party by a man he has worked with for the last 10 years that has recently retired. I am friends with his wife and her daughters now. So, at this yard party we have to set up blankets and chairs, bring our own alcohol and there is going to be a band and catered Mexican food. Set up is between 530-6 and the band is supposed to start at 8pm. I am so excited! We have three children under the age of 7. I want to enjoy good music, good food and good company. My husband doesn't care for this band and I do. He was never thrilled about this event and it's totally my kinda night out. I'm not a bar girl. He told me he couldn't get the night off work. When I told him I wanted to go even if he couldn't he said he would compromise and take me but we would have to leave by 9. 9!!!!!! So he can be at work by 1130 pm (midnight shift). That's an hour of music! I love to dance. I love music. I have never danced with the opposite sex but he is accusing me of dancing to get attention of other men, he's not "stupid" and knows what everybody is going to think when his wife is there without him, I'm disrespecting him by putting myself in a position to he around intoxicated men... He is giving me the silent treatment because I told him he's acting jealous and insecure. I told him our relationship is really hurting from this and we need to work on this. I'm saying WE and I mean it. This problem is mine, too, now. I want to help him but he won't even consider that how he's reacting is unreasonable. I can't even tell you the last time I went out... We are always busy, working hard and tight on money but there is much love in our home so it's okay. The way he's reacting makes me not want him to find a way to come along like I had originally wanted. I really pictured us laying on a blanket having a good time like we usually do. He's saying I wanted to go without him from the beginning, like I premeditated the way he's feeling. We usually drink in our garage once or twice a week after the kids go to bed until the wee hours of the morning- we call it our bar and we laugh and always have a great time. I don't have eyes for anyone else but I'm having a hard time being patient with being wrongfully accused. I'm being punished for wanting to go. Am I acting inappropriately as a wife if I go without my husband? Is it inappropriate for me to dance? Please help... maybe I am from a different planet.


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## SecondTime'Round

Were you planning on getting a babysitter?

Is there any way he can get the night off/take a vacation day? It sounds like a fun party!

I don't think you're being unreasonable as long as there are people there you are already good friends with.


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## Perfectlynot

I do have a babysitter all ready! 

He has no days left to take ;( he burned them all. I was pregnant and lost the baby (our 5th loss) so I had to have a DNC to remove the baby and while they were operating we decided I should have my tubes tied. That was about 3 weeks ago. He used the rest of his days to help take care of me. I did ask him to try to switch days off with someone at work but he told me immediately that he used all his favors. He didn't even try. Shot it down right away. My impression is that he's not interested in going. 

I feel like he wants me to prove how much I want to be with him by not going without him. But I do want to go. I do.


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## SecondTime'Round

Perfectlynot said:


> I do have a babysitter all ready!
> 
> He has no days left to take ;( he burned them all. I was pregnant and lost the baby (our 5th loss) so I had to have a DNC to remove the baby and while they were operating we decided I should have my tubes tied. That was about 3 weeks ago. He used the rest of his days to help take care of me. I did ask him to try to switch days off with someone at work but he told me immediately that he used all his favors. He didn't even try. Shot it down right away. My impression is that he's not interested in going.
> 
> I feel like he wants me to prove how much I want to be with him by not going without him. But I do want to go. I do.


Omg, I am so sorry for all of your losses!!!  That's a totally different issue of course, but that hurts my heart .

I'm with you on this one, but realize we only have your side of the story. I'm not suggesting you're being untruthful in any way, but it's hard to know what to say other than....I'm with you!


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## ConanHub

He sounds like a wonderful husband and unless he is a liar, he did use up his time taking care of you when you really needed him.

I know about wanting fun but this might cross a boundary for him.

Have you two established boundaries that you both agree on?

I would not want my wife to go if she was you but that is one of our boundaries and she earns my trust. I do the same for her.

He is clearly upset by this. How does his emotional state make you feel?

You sound like you believe he is being controlling and ridiculous.

Do you really think a man that loves you like he does is just being controlling?

Are you losing sight of the good qualities your husband has because of your desire to party?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round

ConanHub said:


> He sounds like a wonderful husband and unless he is a liar, he did use up his time taking care of you when you really needed him.
> 
> I know about wanting fun but this might cross a boundary for him.
> 
> Have you two established boundaries that you both agree on?
> 
> I would not want my wife to go if she was you but that is one of our boundaries and she earns my trust. I do the same for her.
> 
> He is clearly upset by this. How does his emotional state make you feel?
> 
> You sound like you believe he is being controlling and ridiculous.
> 
> Do you really think a man that loves you like he does is just being controlling?
> 
> Are you losing sight of the good qualities your husband has because of your desire to party?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Conan,

As a loving husband, what do you think his reasons are for not wanting her to go without him?


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## Perfectlynot

He is wonderful. Yes, you are right I do think this is ridiculous because I know there is no reason not to trust me. I encourage him to go out with his friends. He has scaled back in the last few years but he's been out plenty without me in a drinking crowd. That's pretty hypocritical. He has football tickets this year and he will go without me. He says that a football game is also an inappropriate place for me to be. He can be protective until I feel like I'm being smothered. I wouldn't want him not to care about me and what I'm doing but this is feeling extreme.

What does that mean my "need to party"? I have no interest in talking or dancing with anyone of the opposite sex. This is a yard party of people we know... Not a club or a bar. 

I hate that he's upset. I want to work on the real issue and where we're at right now- I told him I'm here when he's ready to talk. Silence is my punishment. I tried to talk to him and he told me he's going to prove to me that he's not jealous or insecure by not saying anything. But that only proves to me that he can't even talk about the issue.


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## Perfectlynot

He said he's not a fool. He thinks I'm going to get hit on and/or men will look at me. He hates the thought of them making comments to each other about me and his presence isn't there to demand respect for me. If he's with me nobody thinks twice about leaving me alone. This is a yard party though... And does the fear of me being hit on mean I can't do anything without a chaperone? That's what it feels like. I am safe there.
I am responsible and I know when to leave a party.


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## SecondTime'Round

Perfectlynot said:


> He is wonderful. Yes, you are right I do think this is ridiculous because I know there is no reason not to trust me. I encourage him to go out with his friends. He has scaled back in the last few years but he's been out plenty without me in a drinking crowd. That's pretty hypocritical. He has football tickets this year and he will go without me. He says that a football game is also an inappropriate place for me to be. He can be protective until I feel like I'm being smothered. I wouldn't want him not to care about me and what I'm doing but this is feeling extreme.
> 
> What does that mean my "need to party"? I have no interest in talking or dancing with anyone of the opposite sex. This is a yard party of people we know... Not a club or a bar.
> 
> I hate that he's upset. I want to work on the real issue and where we're at right now- I told him I'm here when he's ready to talk. Silence is my punishment. I tried to talk to him and he told me he's going to prove to me that he's not jealous or insecure by not saying anything. But that only proves to me that he can't even talk about the issue.


Yes, silence is your punishment and it isn't a fair one .

WTF about the football games??? I've only been to on NFL game in my life, but it was on a date, and it was FUN! And I consider myself to be a lady!


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## Perfectlynot

Men get drunk there too... Maybe I'm just too much work to keep an eye on. But why keep an eye on me... I feel like a baby. 

I could pick a fight about it but I let him make it a guys thing. I'm sure it would be fun.


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## Anon Pink

Ugh, major eye rolling over here.

Big frggin deal men might look at you. Of course they will. Men always look at women! Grocery store..men look at women. Mall..men look at women. That's the stupidest thing!

He must talk, and you must hear him.

He doesn't want you to dance unless he is there and since he can't be there his mind is going to catastrophize what will happen as a result. So come up with ground rules and boundaries.

No dancing with other men, no talking to other men... Maybe then he will feel comfortable.

This party is in someone's back yard? And he knows these people? But he doesn't trust them either? Hmm maybe his guys football games are a lot more colorful than he is leading on. I always think that those men who shout the loudest about other men...act like those other men when their wife isn't around.


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## Perfectlynot

I have never questioned his loyalty. I never worry when he leaves or goes anywhere and I know he attracts attention from the opposite sex. I believe with my whole heart that he would never cheat on me. If or when it happens I won't spend my time worrying about it, you know? Is that a reflection on me that I'm secure OR is it a reflection of how good and honest of a husband he is? I really don't know what happens when I'm not around so it's means it truly trust him, don't you think?

He's afraid I'll be flattered and enjoy the attention, I guess. I don't need anyone's attention but his.


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## Perfectlynot

I wouldn't talk or dance with other men, I have no reason to. But breaking down my every move like this...its so frustrating. Yes, a yard party at the home of people we know.


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## EleGirl

Do you know most of the other people who will be at the party?

How many people will be there?


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## Perfectlynot

I don't know how many people will be there. I am 29 years old, my husband is 39. The people's home that were going to are in their 60's. The wife has daughters my age. One daughter will be there with her husband and the other daughter is single. I don't know how many people will be there. Is that something I should ask? I'm embarrassed! What's the appropriate amount, 50 people? Is 100 people inappropriate? It should be about me and how I can be trusted not about everybody else! I just tried to talk to him before leaving for work and he literally walked out mid sentence. I'm so hurt and angry... we can disagree without disrespecting me. Now he's left for work and nothing has been worked on.


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## EleGirl

Perfectlynot said:


> I don't know how many people will be there. I am 29 years old, my husband is 39. The people's home that were going to are in their 60's. The wife has daughters my age. One daughter will be there with her husband and the other daughter is single. I don't know how many people will be there. Is that something I should ask? I'm embarrassed! What's the appropriate amount, 50 people? Is 100 people inappropriate?


No, you don't need to ask. I was just trying to visualize the situation. If there would be a few, say under 100, then it's one kind of situation. If their yard is 100 acres and there will be thousands there, it's a different situation.

I as thinking that they probably have a pretty average size yard so it's under 100. Just guessing. 

The way your husband is talking, it sounds like there will be tons of unattached men there with nothing to do but ogle you.



Perfectlynot said:


> It should be about me and how I can be trusted not about everybody else! I just tried to talk to him before leaving for work and he literally walked out mid sentence. I'm so hurt and angry... we can disagree without disrespecting me. Now he's left for work and nothing has been worked on.


Has he done this sort of thing before?


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## Perfectlynot

Yes... He's always been what he calls protective but for me can feel possessive at times.

But, you see, I've been pregnant 8 times in 8 years. I'm not a big party person and he's used to me being a homebody. I'm usually home with the kids especially when I was nursing our 3 children for the first year of their lives.

When I say I want to go somewhere (like a resort or Nashville) he usually follows up with asking me whether I want to do these things alone or with him. And I say of course with you. 

This always surprises me about us because we have a fantastic sex life. We are so connected (no pun intended) and attentive and unselfish. How doesn't that cross over and make him feel secure about how into him I am?! It works for me....

Their yard is maybe an acre or 2. The wife did tell me that a lot of people didn't RSVP. 

He's fuming- he's acting and feels like I've betrayed him and I haven't done anything wrong. I don't know how to deal with this.


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## lovelygirl

I think he's overreacting. Considering this is a yard party and he has had no reason not to have trust you (for all the years you've been together) I think he's being possessive and way insecure.

How does he know you'll enjoy the attention of other man??
Maybe he does the same when with his guys and other girls are around?? 

He has no reason to worry in your situation and he has disrespected you by giving you the silent treatment. To be honest, I would go to the party, considering how unfair he was being to me in this situation. Let him know that although you try to respect how he feels, when he goes overboard this is not tolerated!

Go to the party girl, stay away from the other men and enjoy your time there!


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## lovelygirl

ConanHub said:


> He sounds like a wonderful husband and unless he is a liar, when you really needed him.


It would be disappointing if he didn't do that. 
They lost a baby so while appreciating what he did, it is actually expected. 




> I would not want my wife to go if she was you but that is one of our boundaries and she earns my trust. I do the same for her.


Something's not logical here. 
You trust her, yet you wouldn't let her go to a *yard* party? 
Why? 



> Are you losing sight of the good qualities your husband has because of your desire to party?


You made it sound like this is a rampant club party.
It's just a *yard* party, where a home-girl wants to go to enjoy herself. Nothing more. 

I get it that the man feels as though she might be hit on and commented but who cares as long as she is faithful and minds her own business?? 
She can't be in control of other people's actions but sure as hell she's in control of her own reactions, and judging by her posts, to me she sounds true and loyal.


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## Blaine

Hi perfectly. I'm thinking it's time to get real folks. Unless something is seriously wrong with you guys will look at you and some guys will hit on you. (and they will find a way even if he is there) Because it's a family yard party and not a bar there is less chance this will happen. We all know that if a person wants to cheat they will and there is nothing you can do about it. (perhaps at 39 he is feeling his age) but either he trust you or he doesnt. 2 questions are you planning on drinking and do ya'll have 2 cars? He leaves at 11:30 for work? You could go in separate cars he could leave when he needs to and you agree to be home before he leaves for work. Do you think he would go for that? Good luck


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## Perfectlynot

I suggested taking two cars. He was absolutely insulted. He's said he's not stupid! He's not going to leave his wife drinking alone and dancing anywhere with a bunch of intoxicated guys around. I am not really a big drinker and never have been. I don't let myself get drunk around other people but I have been at night when we're at home and together. See, I don't expect there to be unattached men all over the place and who is going to see me in a dark yard anyways? I don't think it's fair to have to promise that I won't drink or dance or talk to anyone- in my mind it's either you trust me to go or you don't. And if he doesn't... We have work to do. I can't do it alone and he's really being cold now. 

There is no way he could stay until 1130 he would have to leave by 9 to get home and get ready for work. We live about 40 minutes from work. 

We went to this man's retirement party and this band was there and I really liked them. When a song I liked came on I went up to the dance floor and danced with the little kids and the friends wife danced with me but she ditched me right away. Lol i was left alone but I really don't care and he does. Do I enjoy the song or run off because I don't have a buddy? He usually will join me (weddings) and he did briefly before whispering "Okay that's enough". That was end of May. At that party he also accused me of making eyes with one of his co workers that is an absolute disgusting dog. If he was a real dog he would be the kind that humps the air while he walks. My husband came up to me and says "are you making eye contact with (pig)?" I said "what are you talking about?" I had no idea this person was looking at me-he was watching me while I was watching the band play. When I denied that I knew he first gave me that quizzical look and says "babe?" Like he's giving me a second chance to tell the truth. I plead my case of innocence but I know he doesn't believe me. And for the rest of the night I was completely aware of this co worker and yes he was staring with his wife right next to him. 

He made a comment about me driving home alone from this yard party. I told him I could ask my girlfriend to come along. She has 6 kids and we're usually doing the mommy thing of course. That made him more upset. I don't know if it's because she is beautiful or because he thinks two women will attract more attention than one. He told me before that he does think that everyone wants me. Of course I think that's a JOKE! But if he really thinks that then I guess it's his truth. But come on... That is ridiculous. He says I don't understand how men think and he does. Which is why I posted this in the Mens Clubhouse!


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## SecondTime'Round

Perfectlynot said:


> I suggested taking two cars. He was absolutely insulted. He's said he's not stupid! He's not going to leave his wife drinking alone and dancing anywhere with a bunch of intoxicated guys around. I am not really a big drinker and never have been. I don't let myself get drunk around other people but I have been at night when we're at home and together. See, I don't expect there to be unattached men all over the place and who is going to see me in a dark yard anyways? I don't think it's fair to have to promise that I won't drink or dance or talk to anyone- in my mind it's either you trust me to go or you don't. And if he doesn't... We have work to do. I can't do it alone and he's really being cold now.
> 
> There is no way he could stay until 1130 he would have to leave by 9 to get home and get ready for work. We live about 40 minutes from work.
> 
> We went to this man's retirement party and this band was there and I really liked them. When a song I liked came on I went up to the dance floor and danced with the little kids and the friends wife danced with me but she ditched me right away. Lol i was left alone but I really don't care and he does. Do I enjoy the song or run off because I don't have a buddy? He usually will join me (weddings) and he did briefly before whispering "Okay that's enough". That was end of May. At that party he also accused me of making eyes with one of his co workers that is an absolute disgusting dog. If he was a real dog he would be the kind that humps the air while he walks. My husband came up to me and says "are you making eye contact with (pig)?" I said "what are you talking about?" I had no idea this person was looking at me-he was watching me while I was watching the band play. When I denied that I knew he first gave me that quizzical look and says "babe?" Like he's giving me a second chance to tell the truth. I plead my case of innocence but I know he doesn't believe me. And for the rest of the night I was completely aware of this co worker and yes he was staring with his wife right next to him.
> 
> He made a comment about me driving home alone from this yard party. I told him I could ask my girlfriend to come along. She has 6 kids and we're usually doing the mommy thing of course. That made him more upset. I don't know if it's because she is beautiful or because he thinks two women will attract more attention than one. He told me before that he does think that everyone wants me. Of course I think that's a JOKE! But if he really thinks that then I guess it's his truth. But come on... That is ridiculous. He says I don't understand how men think and he does. Which is why I posted this in the Mens Clubhouse!


OK, well, he's clearly very insecure. You're 10 years younger than him....maybe he's afraid you're going to eventually want to trade him for a newer model. Was he cheated on before?

I can understand a little bit what he's saying about men and alcohol. In my previous life, about 10 years ago, I lived in a neighborhood that had lots of yard parties. My then husband and I would always be at them together, but kinda separate (because we both knew everyone....we lived there). One of the neighbors had out of town friends who frequently visited and attended these parties and the man hit on me all the time (even with his wife there). He was quite aggressive about it and would have had sex right there in one of the back yards if I said yes! So, I get where your H is coming from a little bit. 

Still, he needs to put his big boy pants on and realize you can handle yourself and aren't interested in anyone but him!


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## inhope

He is being a controlling jerk and he needs told in no uncertain fashion that you DO NOT belong to him.

No-one can live a good life under such conditions.
Men will always ogle at women, but what is coming out loud and clear is that he doesn't trust YOU enough to repel any advances.
He is saying that YOU as an adult woman need HIM around to make sure YOU behave...
When is he going to cotton on to the fact that men, sometimes highly desirable men go to the supermarket, will you end up with a chaperone there also?
A yard party is NOT an orgy, he needs to wise up here.

I am with Anon Pink, men who are excessively paranoid about their women cheating, and I think he is being excessively paranoid here, are usually cheating themselves. They understand too well how easy it is to cheat and are thus beside themselves with worry, that their wife is cheating on them.


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## Perfectlynot

Yeah... I know some men can be so brass! My husband can be intimidating and usually if anyone would be interested regardless of either one of us being attached or not they wouldn't even bother because of him. I just don't get it... It's not a club, not a bachelorette party... He accused me of confiding in my girlfriend with everything that's going on between us and then I the next sentence says I'm accusing him of being jealous and insecure. I didn't say a word to her about how he's acting. It's embarrassing to repeat! 

He was cheated on by his girlfriend in high school because he was constantly cheating on her. He's actually cheated on every girlfriend except for me. Oh man... I sound blind don't I? Personality wise he is the one you want at a party. He drinks and tells stories and is always the last one to leave and his laugh is contagious. He's a great time. I stay to myself more and won't be found rolling in at 2 or 3 in the morning. I wish this wasn't going on and he wanted to join me but it's not his thing on top of... Jealousy?

I don't think the age thing is an issue yet. He looks really good for his age. I'm sure we probably look the same age after the wear and tear of life and children on me lol maybe he is projecting because he loves women and is very sexual (behind closed doors). He's a private person and really loyal. 

He won't even answer my phone calls. The punishment increases! Ahhhhhhhh ughhhhhhhh

How long is this going to go on for?!!!! He knows no contact with him kills me and it does break me down to asking myself if going is as important as disagreeing with him. Which is why he does it right? Get me to break so he has absolutely nothing to worry about. Why do I have to choose?!!! WHYYYY?


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## happy as a clam

The real question isn't the yard party.

It's: Why do you want to be with a (previously) serial cheater who is jealous and controlling? Giving you the silent treatment for days? 

These issues run far deeper than whether you will or will not attend a yard party.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Perfectlynot

INHOPE- I have to try to stay level because it's like you said- it doesn't feel like a good life when this is happening. When we were talking about it he breaks down why I want to go. Then he asked me why it's so important. It's not really but it is at the same time. If I had a sick kid it'd be a no brainer (I probably
Just jinxed myself lol) but to not go or leave at 9pm because he can't go? He does things like this with the kids too.... If they get invited to go to a movie our child really wants to see or to go somewhere he likes he will make a comment about how HE wants to take them. But we won't have the time or the money. Which means if I cancel our child won't get to do it at all. 

I don't get it. Am I too attentive? Did I create this by doting too much? I'll do whatever he asks me to. I try to go in our room and make a point to rub his hands or feet and strive to rub more if I can everyday. I succeed about 5 out of 7 days. If he wants a sandwich or a drink I'll get it. He wants me to work on his white uniform shirts, I will. He threw his back out and I think I took pretty good care of him. I didn't huff and puff even tho it was a lot of work. I tried to be available because I know how much it sucks to be down and out and have to ask for every little thing. 

He is an excellent provider. He is miserable on this midnight shift so I think it's adding to his irritability. I'm trying to patient but.... It's hard.


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## Perfectlynot

Happy as a clam- he WAS a serial cheater. He even has told me how surprised he is that he was able to settle down with one woman that he never thought he would be faithful. I keep him busy enough and it's spicy enough that there's no need to look elsewhere. We both know nothing is worth risking what we have. At least I know I do. He knows I love him it's about EVERYBODY ELSE... I feel like my time is already ruined.


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## inhope

Perfectlynot said:


> He was cheated on by his girlfriend in high school because he was constantly cheating on her. He's actually cheated on every girlfriend except for me. Oh man... I sound blind don't I?


Yes, you do.

He is jealous, possessive and controlling, he is a proven serial cheater and is now emotionally abusing you by stonewalling you.

I think you have to take a long serious look at this relationship, take off the rosy coloured specs.



> I keep him busy enough and it's spicy enough that there's no need to look elsewhere.


I would not be too sure about that, men usually cheat for variety, to get "extra", to take advantage of an opportunity. 
Having a good sex life at home is no guarantee a man will not cheat.


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## Hardtohandle

inhope said:


> He is being a controlling jerk and he needs told in no uncertain fashion that you DO NOT belong to him.
> 
> No-one can live a good life under such conditions.
> Men will always ogle at women, but what is coming out loud and clear is that he doesn't trust YOU enough to repel any advances.
> He is saying that YOU as an adult woman need HIM around to make sure YOU behave...
> When is he going to cotton on to the fact that men, sometimes highly desirable men go to the supermarket, will you end up with a chaperone there also?
> A yard party is NOT an orgy, he needs to wise up here.
> 
> *I am with Anon Pink, men who are excessively paranoid about their women cheating, and I think he is being excessively paranoid here, are usually cheating themselves*. They understand too well how easy it is to cheat and are thus beside themselves with worry, that their wife is cheating on them.


The highlighted part is utter fvcking bullsh!t.. 

I have insecurity issues and I NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER cheated on anyone I have ever been with.. I never even dated 2 women at the same time.. 

But I do have insecurity issues.. I do have my problems.. 

Perfectlynot, Is your husband in Law Enforcement ? 

Beyond that question. Look this is obvious not the first time this has happen between them.. 

Can the OP openly admit she is NOT honestly looking to get the attention of other men ? 

Are you one of those women with guy friends ? Ex Boyfriends calling ? 

Look does your husband have insecurities, Yes he does.. 

He is looking to paint himself the victim so he can take it out on you.. I know it because that is sadly what I do.. Took me several years to figure that out.. But I realize it now.. I look to cause my own drama in my life and insecurity helps fuel that drama.. 

Something happen in his past that is causing this.. 

Doing midnight shifts and drinking a few days a week sounds like a cop to me.. He knows all the men there so again that is making him insecure.. 

I'm not going to defend him using all his time up for the miscarriage/DNC issue.. He had to do it, it was his job as a father and husband to do it.. I did it when it happen to my ex wife.. That is the whole point of being in a relationship and a marriage..

I would suggest take 2 cars.. Leave at 10, 1 hour after he leaves.. He needs to cut the apron strings a bit.. He will feel insecure for an hour and then feel relaxed when you call him on the drive home.. I honestly would suggest boosting his ego a bit during the talk.. Talk dirty if you can to him.. Assuming you have done it, don't do anything out of character as of course that will raise up his insecurity thinking someone else turned you on and that is why you left.. 

Sadly I can relate to crazy and insecure.. 

Again I've gone through similar issues with the on and off GF.. 

Welcome to marriage and life.. This sh!t isn't perfect.. 
Its the job of the both of you to make it work some how..


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## happy as a clam

Perfectlynot said:


> Happy as a clam- he WAS a serial cheater. He even has told me how surprised he is that he was able to settle down with one woman that he never thought he would be faithful. I keep him busy enough and it's spicy enough that there's no need to look elsewhere. We both know nothing is worth risking what we have. At least I know I do. He knows I love him it's about EVERYBODY ELSE... I feel like my time is already ruined.


Ok, but you didn't address any of the rest of my comment. He's jealous, controlling, and very immaturely giving you the silent treatment.

Why do you want to be with someone who treats you this way?

I suspect the drama of it all is a big part of your relationship. And not a healthy part, I might add.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy

Take two cars, negotiate some boundaries, and stay after he leaves to go to work. Get him to talk, and if he won't, call him out on his irrational jealousy.


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## ConanHub

Perfectlynot said:


> He is wonderful. Yes, you are right I do think this is ridiculous because I know there is no reason not to trust me. I encourage him to go out with his friends. He has scaled back in the last few years but he's been out plenty without me in a drinking crowd. That's pretty hypocritical. He has football tickets this year and he will go without me. He says that a football game is also an inappropriate place for me to be. He can be protective until I feel like I'm being smothered. I wouldn't want him not to care about me and what I'm doing but this is feeling extreme.
> 
> What does that mean my "need to party"? I have no interest in talking or dancing with anyone of the opposite sex. This is a yard party of people we know... Not a club or a bar.
> 
> I hate that he's upset. I want to work on the real issue and where we're at right now- I told him I'm here when he's ready to talk. Silence is my punishment. I tried to talk to him and he told me he's going to prove to me that he's not jealous or insecure by not saying anything. But that only proves to me that he can't even talk about the issue.


You are painting a clearer picture now. I asked the questions I did for you to ask them of yourself.

This might need some counseling to get to the bottom of. A man as caring as you have described him probably has good motivations but might be having trouble communicating.

Something is really troubling him. Something that he needs to learn to communicate about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink

See, there you go. This isn't about you it's about him and his past history of attempting to bed anything in a skirt. He used to be a cad, a wolf, a sexual carouser so he thinks all men are going to behave the way he once did. Because he was successful at bedding women who should have been off the market, he has generalized that all women are that easy to persuade away from their vows. This is a big issue that needs lots of talking.

While I think your H absolutely needs to learn to have faith in you I don't think this party is the hill to die on. I think you should bargain with him. You will leave with him on one condition. He has to talk about his attitude toward women as a result of bedding so many who should have said no.

Not all men are philanderers and not all women are easy.


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## lifeistooshort

Anon Pink said:


> Ugh, major eye rolling over here.
> 
> Big frggin deal men might look at you. Of course they will. Men always look at women! Grocery store..men look at women. Mall..men look at women. That's the stupidest thing!
> 
> He must talk, and you must hear him.
> 
> He doesn't want you to dance unless he is there and since he can't be there his mind is going to catastrophize what will happen as a result. So come up with ground rules and boundaries.
> 
> No dancing with other men, no talking to other men... Maybe then he will feel comfortable.
> 
> This party is in someone's back yard? And he knows these people? But he doesn't trust them either? Hmm maybe his guys football games are a lot more colorful than he is leading on. I always think that those men who shout the loudest about other men...act like those other men when their wife isn't around.



A guy at the gas station half my age made a comment to me about the pump liking dirty blondes. Maybe I shouldn't gas up my car without my hb because men might look and comment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inhope

Hardtohandle said:


> The highlighted part is utter fvcking bullsh!t..
> 
> I have insecurity issues and I NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER cheated on anyone I have ever been with.. I never even dated 2 women at the same time..


This man is a proven serial cheater, he has cheated in every single past relationship, the fact he is over the top jealous and insecure, is not then surprising.


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## Anon Pink

lifeistooshort said:


> A guy at the gas station half my age made a comment to me about the pump liking dirty blondes. Maybe I shouldn't gas up my car without my hb because men might look and comment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Oh really? Pumps usually like whoever can turn them on..."


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## lovelygirl

Perfectlynot said:


> I suggested taking two cars. He was absolutely insulted. He's said he's not stupid! He's not going to leave his wife drinking alone and dancing anywhere with a bunch of intoxicated guys around. I am not really a big drinker and never have been. I don't let myself get drunk around other people but I have been at night when we're at home and together. See, I don't expect there to be unattached men all over the place and who is going to see me in a dark yard anyways? I don't think it's fair to have to promise that I won't drink or dance or talk to anyone- in my mind it's either you trust me to go or you don't. And if he doesn't... We have work to do. I can't do it alone and he's really being cold now.
> 
> There is no way he could stay until 1130 he would have to leave by 9 to get home and get ready for work. We live about 40 minutes from work.
> 
> We went to this man's retirement party and this band was there and I really liked them. When a song I liked came on I went up to the dance floor and danced with the little kids and the friends wife danced with me but she ditched me right away. Lol i was left alone but I really don't care and he does. Do I enjoy the song or run off because I don't have a buddy? He usually will join me (weddings) and he did briefly before whispering "Okay that's enough". That was end of May. At that party he also accused me of making eyes with one of his co workers that is an absolute disgusting dog. If he was a real dog he would be the kind that humps the air while he walks. My husband came up to me and says "are you making eye contact with (pig)?" I said "what are you talking about?" I had no idea this person was looking at me-he was watching me while I was watching the band play. When I denied that I knew he first gave me that quizzical look and says "babe?" Like he's giving me a second chance to tell the truth. I plead my case of innocence but I know he doesn't believe me. And for the rest of the night I was completely aware of this co worker and yes he was staring with his wife right next to him.
> 
> He made a comment about me driving home alone from this yard party. I told him I could ask my girlfriend to come along. She has 6 kids and we're usually doing the mommy thing of course. That made him more upset. I don't know if it's because she is beautiful or because he thinks two women will attract more attention than one. He told me before that he does think that everyone wants me. Of course I think that's a JOKE! But if he really thinks that then I guess it's his truth. But come on... That is ridiculous. He says I don't understand how men think and he does. Which is why I posted this in the Mens Clubhouse!


His insecurity goes over the top and to be honest is a turn off. 
He's probably afraid of the fact that's he's aging while you're still young and fresh and have other guys stare at you ... but he makes it so blatant that it becomes annoying. 
You're not a baby, you can handle "risky" situations yourself, like a real lady. 
You don't need him to overprotect you, because of his insecurities. 

I would have a real talk with him and I wouldn't mind speaking my mind OUT LOUD.


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## lifeistooshort

Anon Pink said:


> "Oh really? Pumps usually like whoever can turn them on..."


Well where gas pumps are concerned I get around 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Perfectlynot

Hard2handle.... HE IS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT. You're creepin me out lol why?

I am not looking for attention but I don't expect you to believe me plus you are only getting my side of the story. 

Happy as a clam- I didn't respond to that part of your message because if a person is acting jealous or insecure it doesn't mean they are meant to be discarded. I once read about children, and it made so much sense to me, the more a child acts unlovable the more love they need. I think this applies to all people not just little people. I know how outrageous I've acted, I can relate to hard2handle. I have had to recognize my own issues too and it's a painful road. This is an issue and I have to embrace it if I'm going to use it as an opportunity for us to grow. What do you suggest happy as a clam, start over? Go out just to show him I can? I'm too old and too in love with him for games. He's not doing this on purpose he's obviously not happy so kick him while he's down?


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## Perfectlynot

Yeah Pink, I think you have a point. He has said I know what girls night is all about there's always one or two who take it too far. 

He's worried I'll morph into... A gas pump.


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## LonelyinLove

Perfectlynot said:


> I was pregnant and lost the baby (our 5th loss) so I had to have a DNC to remove the baby and while they were operating we decided I should have my tubes tied. That was about 3 weeks ago.


I am so sorry for your loss.


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## LonelyinLove

At my age, I'm going to do what I want, I'm going where I want, with who I want.

The H did plenty of that when he was younger and I got to stay home with the kids.

He went on expensive golf trips, out with the guys after work (second shift), and work travel. 

This is my turn. 

If it makes him uncomfortable, too bad. 

After what you just went through, your H should more understanding of your need for socialization. There is nothing inappropriate about a yard party. There can be just as much leering at you at the grocery store.


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## lovelygirl

Perfectlynot said:


> I'm too old and too in love with him for games?


I can understand 'too in love', but 'too old' ? 
I wouldn't say you're old to change your life's direction. You're only 29 as far as I remember. 

This said, it doesn't mean you should discard your man because of his insecurity issues though. If everything else is going fine, then you should deal with it and that's it. Everyone has flaws and if insecurity is one of his flaws, then it means you gotta work on it together. :smile2:


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## brooklynAnn

My take on this is, we all grown folks who knows who we are as individuals. We know how to conduct ourselves and what our boundaries are. You know how you will behave at this party. Your husband thinks how other men are going to react to you being by yourself. Maybe he is insecure or a might bit possessive. 

My question is: Is this party so important to you that you are willing to have a fight over it? 

Sometimes, for me, I just let my husband have his bit of possessiveness and just let it be. He is the man who wants to take care and keep you safe. He knows that I love him. But he is seeing this from his male pov. He knows how the other men around will behave if he is not there and his sexy wife is dancing by herself. He is trying to protect you from unwanted attention. You, of course don't care two figs for other men and their attention. Your husband on the other hand, sees you as sexy and desirable and as such, to him, other men will find you to be sexy and desirable. So he is just trying to keep what is his.

Does that make sense?


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## lifeistooshort

There's a controlling element that your you're putting up with now but you're going to tire of as you get older. I'm 12 years ahead of you and my hb is 19 years ahead of me. 

Your hb not only has control issues but also double standard issues. Tell him that from now on you only go out together, and that means no football games or guys nights out. You're feeding a lot of this because you're putting up with it. 

And I know you think you're somehow the first one he's faithful to and maybe you are but the odds don't support that. Even if it's true you're still paying for everything that came before you. I bet he's still walking around po'd because ex gf cheated on him with no regard his cheating. He feels that women cheating on him is worse then anything he does. 

If you're willing to live like that and do nothing but complain knock yourself out. But this is gong to get worse the older he gets. It's one thing have marital boundaries but quite another to blow his top at the idea of other men looking. Does he not look at other women? 

Either deal with this head on or accept that you'll have to live like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam

OP... you're still skirting the issues I asked a few posts back.

Why won't you answer the questions about your selfish, controlling, jealous husband? A man who has cheated on EVERY previous relationship he ever was involved in? Why do you want to be with someone who treats you this way?

Are you addicted to the drama of it all?

("If he's jealous and insecure about me attending a party without him, IT MUST MEAN HE LOVES ME.")


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## MarriedTex

Are most of the people who are going to be there from his workplace? His attitude may be driven - in part - by not wanting to mix family life with work acquaintances. This may be of particular concern if he is not there.

Maybe it's not all about "controlling you." Maybe he fears you sharing a story about his "pink underwear" or other home foible that will embarrass him in front of co-workers. 

There is the possibility that you will "share" something that could make his work life (i.e. colleague teasing) It could be something out of your control.

Let's say you have four margaritas instead of three. Co-workers start referring to you as Ms. Tequila. By association, he becomes known at work as Mr. Tequila. He gets reminded of this every. single. day for the next six months.

Don't know if this is the case. But please consider the possibility that he may be trying to preserve / control his own image rather than expressing mis-trust for you. Even if you do everything right, there could be ramifications for him and his work life. In short, you may be asking to invade his "work turf" in a social manner that he perceives (irrationally) will have negative consequences for him.


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## Hardtohandle

inhope said:


> This man is a proven serial cheater, he has cheated in every single past relationship, the fact he is over the top jealous and insecure, is not then surprising.


The mere fact that it is an absolute statement makes it wrong.. 

Its like saying all effeminate men are gay.. 

Granted in this instance the OP really left out some big information.. 

Its like saying I wonder if my husband is gay because I seen him wearing woman stockings and then post, oh yes.. I caught him making love to another man a week ago.. 

But one thing does not mean another.. I'm starting to learn this stuff just isn't that black and white.


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## inhope

MarriedTex said:


> Are most of the people who are going to be there from his workplace? His attitude may be driven - in part - by not wanting to mix family life with work acquaintances. This may be of particular concern if he is not there.
> 
> Maybe it's not all about "controlling you." Maybe he fears you sharing a story about his "pink underwear" or other home foible that will embarrass him in front of co-workers.
> 
> There is the possibility that you will "share" something that could make his work life (i.e. colleague teasing) It could be something out of your control.
> 
> Let's say you have four margaritas instead of three. Co-workers start referring to you as Ms. Tequila. By association, he becomes known at work as Mr. Tequila. He gets reminded of this every. single. day for the next six months.
> 
> Don't know if this is the case. But please consider the possibility that he may be trying to preserve / control his own image rather than expressing mis-trust for you. Even if you do everything right, there could be ramifications for him and his work life. In short, you may be asking to invade his "work turf" in a social manner that he perceives (irrationally) will have negative consequences for him.


OK, but it is still about control and lack of trust, of course it is. 
If what you say is true, he still doesn't trust her, an adult woman and his wife to act appropriately in front of his work colleagues... What does that say about their relationship?
He still wants to control the situation, what she says, how she acts by being present and overseeing her at a social function.
The OP is 29, not 9. He is her husband, not her father...


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## brooklynAnn

Just wondering, why is it that most people find him to be controlling?

How do we know he is being controlling, instead of protective or caring about what happens to his wife at this party?

Not looking to start an argument. Just trying to see how we all think.


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## Perfectlynot

Brooklyn I don't frequently go out. It's not worth fighting over but I could say that about his stance, too. I do like that he's protective but I don't need a chaperone. Do you go places without your husband? If you wanted to go somewhere and he didn't want you to- then you wouldn't?


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## Perfectlynot

Lonely- that's kinda how I'm feeling right now. A break from boogers, sh*t and the demands of being Mommy. I love it but I'm a person too. I enjoy music and food and good company and many other things... I don't want to rush home if I'm enjoying myself.


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## Perfectlynot

Happy as a clam... Questions about
My controlling, jealous husband? Lol this is the man I love- that I have COMMITTED to. When the waters get rocky you can jump ship if you want to but I'm going down with it! Are you married? Am I addicted to the drama? There are issues in every relationship. We aren't Sammi and Ronnie for Christ's sake.


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## Perfectlynot

Life's too short- I think you nailed it


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## Perfectlynot

MarriedTex- I guess that's a good perspective but he hasn't said that. I don't drink heavily and I think I'm classy HAHAHHA


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## Perfectlynot

Hard2handle what big
Information did I leave out? I really won't even consider that he's cheating on me if that's what you're referring to. Not until it happens! I'm not going to sit and be a jealous seething wife... I might as well find women for him to sleep with if I act like that. The more I encourage him to go out and be with his friends the more He stays!!!! That was never my intention I really didn't want him to lose himself and his hobbies just because of marriage and kids but giving him much freedom really worked in my favor


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## lovelygirl

Perfectlynot said:


> Lonely- that's kinda how I'm feeling right now. A break from boogers, sh*t and the demands of being Mommy. I love it but I'm a person too. I enjoy music and food and good company and many other things... I don't want to rush home if I'm enjoying myself.


That's fair enough. Just because you have a stay-at-home mom it doesn't mean you should be locked inside those walls 24/7.


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## Perfectlynot

Well now... He said he would get someone to cover him at work so we could stay until 10. So he went from 9pm to 10. I'm selfish because I don't want to have a curfew. I want to come home when I want to come home. I want to choose when that is. I want to R E L A X. I don't want to keep checking the clock. So yeah... I know I'm going to get backlash for this... I told him I give up! He can have it his way we leave at 10 but I'm still hurt by it. When he told me he wasn't going the day before yesterday I did extend an invite to my friend and her childhood friend and her husband. My friend's friend worked for the wife who is having the party back when she was in high school so they know each other. We've been arguing all day. I told him I give up and that we'll do it his way. Then I told him I did invite them because before he treated me like I didn't exist, he said he wasn't going and he said he was concerned about me being alone. Now he is accusing me of plotting something. Says his gut is saying I'm up to something. WHAT? I CAN'T WIN. I should have done what was right and kept sticking up for what I know isn't wrong! He said I'm going to Hell and is making the most snide, mean and rude comments under his breath while I'm talking, rolling his eyes. You might see me on Snapped.


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## staarz21

Does this band not play anywhere else on any other night? Obviously, you guys aren't going to solve this before the yard party, so why not look up the band, or ask the lady who the hell this band is, and find out when/where they play. Then, wait for a night that lines up with your H's nights off - and go see the band then.....

Your H is feeling really insecure over something. We don't know if he's cheating himself (and maybe his gf is going to be there) or if he knows something about the other guys that you don't. Maybe he knows they sleep with married women, maybe they've joked with him about how hot you are...whatever. You don't know because your H is acting like a 6 year old and not talking about it, but we do know he isn't okay with this particular party. So, go and listen to 2 hours of music...that's definitely plenty of music! What's so wrong with staying a couple of hours? Why do you feel the need to be out all night? This is probably the issue he's having. 

In the mean time, you and your H need to work on setting boundaries. What you're okay with and what you're not okay with and the reasoning behind it.

If you're H is accusing you non stop of cheating - look at your behavior and make sure you don't fit the bill of someone who might cheat. After you made sure you're not giving off those vibes, THEN look into his behavior. You may very well be too damn naive. He could be cheating on you - if what you're posting here is true, then his behavior is awfully suspicious....but then again, yours could be too. 

Compromises need to be made for now and those can take time to expand.


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## *LittleDeer*

Perfectlynot said:


> Well now... He said he would get someone to cover him at work so we could stay until 10. So he went from 9pm to 10. I'm selfish because I don't want to have a curfew. I want to come home when I want to come home. I want to choose when that is. I want to R E L A X. I don't want to keep checking the clock. So yeah... I know I'm going to get backlash for this... I told him I give up! He can have it his way we leave at 10 but I'm still hurt by it. When he told me he wasn't going the day before yesterday I did extend an invite to my friend and her childhood friend and her husband. My friend's friend worked for the wife who is having the party back when she was in high school so they know each other. We've been arguing all day. I told him I give up and that we'll do it his way. Then I told him I did invite them because before he treated me like I didn't exist, he said he wasn't going and he said he was concerned about me being alone. Now he is accusing me of plotting something. Says his gut is saying I'm up to something. WHAT? I CAN'T WIN. I should have done what was right and kept sticking up for what I know isn't wrong! He said I'm going to Hell and is making the most snide, mean and rude comments under his breath while I'm talking, rolling his eyes. You might see me on Snapped.


Wow this sounds abusive IMO. 

Now he has been given the green light to treat you badly in future to get his way. He has some serious issues and is extremely jealous and controlling. 

If you don't take a stand you can expect a lifetime of this nonsense.


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## Perfectlynot

Starz- I did take the compromise and that just made me more suspicious in his eyes!

The band isn't important enough for me to find like that. I like that it's in somebody's back yard, it's quaint and I know the people and so does he. 

I just didn't want to have to keep checking the clock. I don't need to be out all night by any means I just wanted to leave when I was ready ya know? Maybe I have cabin fever. I don't know. The night is ruined and it hasn't even come. He said that he was happy because he thought I found him interesting and fun enough that I didn't need to go elsewhere. I know I'm not doing anything wrong. My intentions are being questioned. My husband doesn't trust me. That's the bottom line really. 

His girlfriend might be there? WTF. Really? Oh my god.... That never occurred to me...


----------



## Perfectlynot

Little deer- what does that mean stand up for myself? Go and deal with this for how long? He's acting this way because he feels that betrayed. Even though it's (I believe) unjustified that's what he's dealing with. UGHHHHHHH


----------



## staarz21

Perfectlynot said:


> Starz- I did take the compromise and that just made me more suspicious in his eyes!
> 
> The band isn't important enough for me to find like that. I like that it's in somebody's back yard, it's quaint and I know the people and so does he.
> 
> I just didn't want to have to keep checking the clock. I don't need to be out all night by any means I just wanted to leave when I was ready ya know? Maybe I have cabin fever. I don't know. The night is ruined and it hasn't even come. He said that he was happy because he thought I found him interesting and fun enough that I didn't need to go elsewhere. I know I'm not doing anything wrong. My intentions are being questioned. My husband doesn't trust me. That's the bottom line really.
> 
> His girlfriend might be there? WTF. Really? Oh my god.... That never occurred to me...



Well don't go running with the GF thing, I was throwing it out there because his behavior, if what you said is true, is way off. I mean if he goes out alone and drinks, why can't you? Why this particular party full of people he knows? Why is that making him so uncomfortable. It just sounds weird to me.


----------



## Perfectlynot

But it doesn't make sense to me either. It is innocent to me any way you cut it. I am trying so hard to be calm (something I'm working on- one of my issues) but his behavior to me is so disrespectful. He was so upset that I was disrespectful to him previously in our relationship so I have done a lot of research to fix that and to be more private like he asked. I even discovered why I fought the way I did- pretty unhealthy. I've stopped talking and venting to my friend and family members. It's so hypocritical. I was shocked that this was even an issue. Maybe he is afraid for me to be there alone. Perfect opportunity for someone to approach me and tell me something he doesn't want me to hear. I'm going.


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## SecondTime'Round

Perfectlynot said:


> But it doesn't make sense to me either. It is innocent to me any way you cut it. I am trying so hard to be calm (something I'm working on- one of my issues) but his behavior to me is so disrespectful. He was so upset that I was disrespectful to him previously in our relationship so I have done a lot of research to fix that and to be more private like he asked. I even discovered why I fought the way I did- pretty unhealthy. I've stopped talking and venting to my friend and family members. It's so hypocritical. I was shocked that this was even an issue. *Maybe he is afraid for me to be there alone. Perfect opportunity for someone to approach me and tell me something he doesn't want me to hear. *I'm going.


Interesting thought. I didn't even think of it. Could be. ?? When's this party again?


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## Perfectlynot

I compromised by agreeing to leave at 10 but now I'm being accused of being up to something because I invited my friend and her friend and hubby. Like he's trying to fight so hard I give up completely??? He does keep asking me why it's so Important to go and suggested doing something else a different night, together. Then I suggested him getting dressed for work at the party and I drive him to work at 11. He was very concerned about me going back to the party without him but my suggestion was to go home then and I'd pick him up in the morning. Oh my god if he's hiding something or someone I don't think I could ever recover.


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## Perfectlynot

This Saturday.


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## Perfectlynot

He even stooped as low as threatening to kick me out. That's really extreme for him. It doesn't seem to fit the crime that isn't being committed.


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## turnera

Perfectlynot said:


> He's actually cheated on every girlfriend except for me. Oh man... I sound blind don't I?


Yes, actually.

He doesn't want you around MEN because he knows WHAT MEN DO - chase women, married or not. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit that he's out chasing women at his football parties.

But YOU are different because he 'owns' _you_. So he will control _you_. So far, you've been the dutiful controlled wife and done things the way he wants - barefoot and pregnant in the middle of nowhere.

Does any of this fit?


> Signs of a Controlling Guy By Marie Hartwell-Walker, Ed.D.
> ~ 6 min read
> Letters like these come in to our “Ask the Therapist” column every week:
> 
> “My boyfriend freaks out if I go out with my friends for an evening — even though he hangs out with his friends almost every day,” says Angela. “I love my boyfriend to death but he’s always putting me down,” says Katie. “Every weekend we have to go see my boyfriend’s mom but he doesn’t want to spend any time with my family. It’s gotten so I have to lie if I’m going to see my own sister,” says Kieshi.
> 
> Angel’s letter is only a little different: “I used to have lots of friends but my boyfriend wants all my time. I used to think that was romantic. Now I’m scared I’m losing most of my friends.” And Melody echoes several other letters when she says, “My boyfriend is always accusing me of coming on to other guys when we’re out. Guys do look at me but I don’t invite it. It’s gotten so I don’t want to go out any more cuz we always end up in a big fight about it.”
> 
> It’s almost as if these young women are in relationships with the same guy who just zips himself into a different outer suit to appeal to the woman he’s with. In the name of romance or commitment or love, he increasingly limits his girlfriend’s life and chips away at her self-esteem. This is what is meant by a “controlling” boyfriend.
> 
> Why do some guys act like this? Generally it’s because they are scared of the vulnerability that comes with loving and trusting someone. They may have been betrayed by a former girlfriend and fear being hurt again. They may have grown up observing relationships where the man held the upper hand by controlling the woman. Their self-esteem may be so low that the only way they can be sure that someone will stay with them is to make the girl’s self-esteem even lower. Whatever the reason, it isn’t good for them or for the women who had the misfortune to fall in love with them. Relationships built on distrust and control are unhealthy. Relationships where love is held hostage don’t last.
> 
> There are some common signs of a controlling guy. If you recognize your boyfriend or yourself here, you may want to take a step back from the relationship. But please be careful not to jump to conclusions based on a list. It’s not at all uncommon for people to have some of these characteristics some of the time. When people get scared, they often try to get things back under control.
> 
> Signs like these become a problem when they become a pattern. If your guy shows some of these behaviors but will talk about them with you and will work consistently on making change, it may be worth it to hang onto the relationship. Part of becoming a couple is negotiating how you will manage different tastes, different opinions, and different ways of operating in the world. It’s the guys who regularly behave in a number of these ways (especially those who get physical) and who see nothing wrong with it that you have to be concerned about. A guy whose standard operating procedure is “my way or the highway” is someone who is more interested in being in charge than being in a relationship of mutual respect.
> 
> 7 Warning Signs of Men Who Need Too Much Control
> 
> You are his everything. Sounds great, doesn’t it? It’s not. When a guy needs to be attached to you at the hip and you can’t do anything without his say-so, it’s a big red flag. Sure, it’s normal to be with each other constantly in the first blush of new love. But if it goes on after the first few months; if it limits your ability to do things independently; if it means that you have no privacy; then it has become an issue of control.
> 
> You find yourself losing contact with family, friends, and activities you once enjoyed. He may not even like you to be on the phone or Facebook or email unless he’s around. He always has a reason. He says he doesn’t like how so-and-so takes advantage of you. He says he wants you to spend more time with him. He says your family is too controlling. Some of it even sounds like it makes sense. But over time your boyfriend has isolated you to the point that you don’t have many friends anymore and your family complains that you are neglecting them.
> 
> He has different rules for you than he has for himself. *He gets to hang out with the guys. You don’t get time with your girlfriends. He makes plans for both of you but flips out if you do the same.* He flirts with other girls when you’re out but makes sure you have eyes only for him. He insists on his right to privacy regarding his phone log or his email account or his Facebook password but gets angry if you draw the same boundaries.
> 
> He invites, then insists, that you join in his life but isn’t interested in getting to know yours. Over time, the two of you end up spending your time going to events and doing only the things that interest your guy even if you’re not terribly interested. You rarely if ever do things you love to do. You may justify it at first, figuring that you’re more flexible, that you want to get to know his friends, that it’s cool that he wants to teach you about his interests, that getting him to go to one of your events isn’t worth his sighing and his restlessness and his comments. But somehow you end up making all the compromises and feeling like you’ve lost something that was important to you.
> 
> Finances are a big issue. Somehow you’ve ended up either not having any money of your own or spending it all on your life together. This is one of those issues where opposites produce the same outcome. In some controlling relationships, the boyfriend gradually, or not so gradually, does little or nothing to support the couple. The girlfriend finds herself working all the time to keep the bills paid and food on the table while he “looks for work” or “waits for his band’s big break” or drops in and out of school or simply does nothing but make promises that tomorrow it will be different.
> 
> On the other end of the spectrum is the guy who says that he will take care of his girlfriend, that she doesn’t need to work, that he needs her at home, that real women take care of their family. All that would be fine if the couple had a reasonable way of sharing and managing the family income. But the controlling guy doles out an allowance like it’s the last dollar and doesn’t let his girlfriend or wife in on many of the financial decisions that affect both of them. She ends up even further isolated and dependent on him.
> 
> He is never at fault. In fact, he is phobic about blame. The controlling guy always finds a way to make you feel that anything that goes wrong in your relationship is all about you. If you have a complaint, he will quickly move the conversation to all the things you’ve done wrong since the beginning of time. Instead of discussing your concern, you find yourself on the defensive. Instead of working out a compromise, you feel you have to give in or the fight will go on forever.
> 
> Often these relationships become physically abusive. If the guy is controlling because he doesn’t trust you, he may lose it when he is suspicious. Sadly, it doesn’t take much to make him suspicious. What generally follows are accusations, blaming, relentless grilling, and anger. When we’re talking about something as ephemeral as trust, it’s almost impossible to defend oneself. How do you explain away something that never happened in the first place? Not satisfied with the girlfriend’s answers, the guy gets increasingly frustrated and, though he’d never admit it, scared. It’s not uncommon for the guy to get physical at that point.


Signs of a Controlling Guy | Psych Central


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## Perfectlynot

Then he posted something on Yahoo about the same situation and offered to read me what peoples responses were but he was picking and choosing what responses to read off- not handing me the phone. He left his phone outside and I looked, yes I did, and he was telling people that the party was full of strangers and acquaintances!!!! These people have taken our kids for overnights and say they consider us one of their kids! WTF IS GOING ON HERE


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## turnera

Perfectlynot said:


> He said that he was happy because he thought I found him interesting and fun enough that I didn't need to go elsewhere.


Exactly what abusers/controllers say. They want their wife to stay at home - always - and have NO other interests. And usually, the ONLY outside interest they allow is with other moms and their kids. Sounds about like YOUR life, huh?

Andrea Yates' husband let his wife go to the grocery store - _sometimes_, when _he _couldn't go - and to the Christian bookstore. That was it. She wasn't allowed to go anywhere else. He made her and the kids live in a school bus away from everyone, and after that they moved to a regular neighborhood, but by then he had removed all her family by making it too hard for her to see them. He joined a church that believed in women having no rights. She had no friends left except the ones he 'approved.' Think about it.


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## lifeistooshort

Your hb is not wonderful, he's controlling and abusive. I realize he has wonderful moments but all abusers do, otherwise their partners would all leave.

He's wonderful as long as you stay home and do what the hell you're told. Is this really how you want to live? If this what you want your kids to see? A guy who threatens to kick you out over you goingout without him is not as committed as you. 

Next time that happens leave..... do not allow him to use it as a control tactic You can go back on your terms but you'd better start enforcing some boundaries NOW or your life is going to get more and more miserable with this guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Perfectlynot

Tunera- thank you for the article. Well... I was really close with my family- way too close- I was in a really dark, terrible depression and it took me breaking to realize that my family was poisoning my relationship with my husband and children. He has never pushed me one way or the other or influenced me in any way regarding the relationships with my family. I haven't talked to them since January. That's a whole different can of worms! I learned and discovered that my mother is a narcissist and I am trying to recover from that childhood emotional trauma. I have read that having grown up in such a dysfunctional household I may tend to choose a mate that is controlling. But not all those fit him. Not even most. Growing up in a household like that I learned to be needless and wantless but realizing that I want to have things that are important to me. There is a double standard for sure. And the article is right where it says he always finds fault. He's not one to apologize- if he rolls his eyes it's my fault. I caused it. Growing up in a household like mine I never had friends so that's an easy one. I have one friend now and he doesn't like her. He made a comment about me going to this party alone I said I could invite her and he attacked her character like she's some **** and he's been out with her before and knows even during her divorce she was behaving like a respectable woman would! As far as saying I'm his everything I don't know if he really tells me things like that more than he thinks I should already know. I want to say he doesn't flirt with other women- he's great at tending to me when were out. I can count 2 times I thought he was flirty in the 12 years we've been together. Things I wear have always been an issue, too much of this too much of that. I will wear a shirt I think is ok but I'll bend over to tie a kids shoe and he'll accuse me of knowing I'm giving some guy a "titty show". Ugh those arguments suck... And it's an unspoken rule that skirts are definitely off limits.


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## Perfectlynot

Oh and the Facebook thing- i was on it wayyyyy too much. It was taking over and taking away from the people in front of me. I feel better since I cut it out.


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## Perfectlynot

I couldn't leave. I don't have any money. 

We live beyond our means and every dollar we make pretty much has to go to bills if we want to survive.

I have to work on this. It has to change. I am going to want to be doing more and more now that the baby making days are over. I have been dutiful and I always will be but I'm a person too. He gets so offended if I say I'm not just a wife and mother.


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## Perfectlynot

I don't think I can handle this right now. I can feel myself distancing from what you are saying like a defense mechanism. I feel overwhelmed. He's the only person in my life, I do depend on him. I can't handle another loss.


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## Perfectlynot

I want to have my cake and eat it to. I want to enforce boundaries and not live in misery for doing that. I don't want the love to be withheld as punishment! I hate that.... He has done it for days over this party and I hate it. We can't discuss completely unrelated things! We have a court date tomorrow so I said, "do you think I should go with you?" And he says "you don't care what I think you do what you want to anyways". That didn't answer my question. It was so unnecessary. 

And what does enforcing boundaries mean? Do I not go out without his blessing until then? Does that add fuel to the fire? Am I making things worse???


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## turnera

So he's a woman hater. Got it. 

That fits with a man who cheats on (nearly) every woman he's with; they are possessions.

I'm glad you didn't find him matching a lot of those items; that's why I asked, so we'd know what we're dealing with. 

So, here's my advice. You're dealing with a man with double standards. He will NEVER see your value as high as his. Because he's the man and you're the woman. He loves you, but he's the man. So far, you've played by his rules, you've been busy raising kids, so he's been more than willing to be loving and comforting. 

But you've had some hard times, you've had several years of being the homebody, and now it's at a place where you need a little bit more - a little more being around people. So now he's seeing that HE isn't enough to sustain you, now he has to see you as a whole human female who just MIGHT want to go out once in a while and have friends and, well, be a human, not just his homebody barefoot and pregnant possession.

He's not going to change what he believes. So what you are going to have to do is fix YOU to address his personal issues. And the only way you're going to be able to do that is by YOU going to your own personal counselor, who will help you see what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. And then help you see where and when and how you need to protect your OWN boundaries against unreasonable requests like this. 

Trust me, BTDT. My H wasn't allowing our DD to go to the mall by herself when she was 17 and a high school junior. And I had never learned to stand up for myself, let alone her. It took a lot of therapy for me to learn to say 'I hear your concerns but I'm an adult and not your child so I'm going to make my own decisions' to him. 

THAT is what's missing in your relationship - him seeing you as a viable adult with as much worth and right to decide as him.

And it's going to take you standing up for yourself no matter WHAT he does, no matter how hard he tries to scare you into backing down (threatening to kick you out).

Now is the time to start setting your boundaries. If you don't, he will continue to eat away at your rights.


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## turnera

Perfectlynot said:


> I couldn't leave. I don't have any money.
> 
> We live beyond our means and every dollar we make pretty much has to go to bills if we want to survive.
> 
> I have to work on this.


No, you DO have money. You've been conditioned to believe that since he's the man, he controls the money. But the truth is, whether you 'work' or not, all the money the 'family' earns is HALF YOURS.

Yes, you need to fix not spending more than you earn.

But you also need to fix the situation in which you have no access to or control of the 'family' money.


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## Perfectlynot

So what happens when you say that to your husband? Are you happily married now?

Woman hater sounds about right... I'll go with that. A woman can't run the county, women suck at driving... He makes jokes about women needing to "know their place". 

So turnera- would YOU go on Saturday?


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## turnera

Hell YES I would go. And before I went, I would visit a lawyer just to know what my rights are in terms of the 'family' money so that the next time he threatens to kick me out, I will be READY and I will say 'oh yeah? Well, good luck buddy, because you OWE me half of your income as well as 25% of the rest of your income for child support if you kick me out. Try THAT on for size.'

Now, realistically, this party, it's just a symptom of what's really wrong in your marriage. And I really am sorry that, by coming here, you uncovered marriage stuff you probably really didn't want to think of. But I want you two to make it. And I know - from 35 years of marriage in a marriage JUST LIKE YOURS, that if you don't start setting those boundaries NOW, you'll end up like me, having tried suicide more than once for feeling no way out of the pain, having no control over my own life, watching my kids grow up dysfunctional because I didn't know how to stand up to my husband, and needing lots and lots of therapy and antidepressants just to keep going.

You haven't been married that long. You can set your terms. You can get therapy to learn how to stand up for yourself. YOU have the control here, you just don't realize it. 

Find a therapist so she can help you see how to fix this.

Try reading this book, see if it helps.
http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/em...ndy-bancrofts-why-does-he-do-that-read-online


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## lifeistooshort

You know what? I was also married to a man that thought women were beneath him. I divorced him.

I agree with Turnera.....your husband doesn't think that highly of women. He thinks we exist to serve men.....you are in a tough position because until you can contemplate life without him you basically have no power. All he has to do is strong arm you and you panic and fold and there is no easy answer to this.

That doesn't mean it's impossible to fix but the odds are against you. Your husband doesn't see women as their own beings, he sees us as property and that's a very difficult mentality to work with. My ex was the same way, he flipped out when I told him I was going back to work. I think he knew that once I had a paycheck it was going to be much harder to control me. The thing was that it didn't have to be that way, but I wasn't going to live like that nor was I going to have my sons think this was ok. He just couldn't come to terms with women as their own people, even his sister told him he had issues with women. And he just didn't like me very much.... so I left him.

Your only real chance of improving this is coming to terms with the fact that you may have to leave. Once I told my ex I wanted a divorce he flipped out, wanted counseling (which I'd previously asked for and he said no because he was happy so my unhappiness was my problem and what did I have to be unhappy about anyway because I had all the privileges of being a man with none of the responsibility.....not sure what that even means). By then I was done with him because he was a d!ck on other levels.....he was seldom actually nice to me.

And that may something to work with here, your husband actually does treat you well as long as you're in line. I get that it may take you some time to come to terms with this but you're going to have to get to the point where you're willing to dump him.....once he sees that he MAY be willing to address some things.

And by the way, as someone in a marriage with much bigger age difference than you it's my opinion that they only really work anyway if the younger partner is a strong personality, which at this point it's not clear to me that you are, since you're still kissing his arse. Not that you can't get there, but you're not there now. Even with men who don't look down on women a parent child dynamic will develop naturally if the younger partner isn't a strong personality, which I am. I had to break my husband out of a lot of the daddy crap and he doesn't have any of the anti-woman issues your husband has.

Boundaries means that you start to call his bluff. Tell him that you will abide by appropriate marital boundaries and go to the party. If he pouts ignore him and if he threatens to kick you out tell him you'll pack your bags right now. Call his bluff. It will take some time because he's used to you folding for him when he behaves like a bratty toddler so you'll likely have to deal with some tantrums. Tell him if he wants to discuss like adults he knows where to find you and then ignore him. And get a job. Now. If he doesn't like it tell him you'll leave him to find someone that agrees with his line of thinking. 

It's also possible that he'll decide he wants out if you're not willing to kiss his arse, so you'll have to decide if you can live with that. But I can almost guarantee the grass will not be greener for him. So how do I know this? Read on.....

I've been divorced from my ex for 10 years and he has yet to actually keep a girlfriend. It turns out that women who agree that they're beneath men are not so easy to find. Tell him to knock himself out finding one. Once you get to the point where you're willing to dump him you might have a chance to build a good marriage.


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## Pollo

I understand why he would be upset if you go without him. He doesn't want you drinking and dancing around other men while he's not there and it makes sense to me. But it also sounds like he's not taking you out enough and maybe he's not trying his best to attend this party.

If I were you I'd ask him to make it up to you by taking you somewhere you really want to go for a night out. At least that way you can both enjoy yourselves.


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## lifeistooshort

Pollo said:


> I understand why he would be upset if you go without him. He doesn't want you drinking and dancing around other men while he's not there and it makes sense to me. But it also sounds like he's not taking you out enough and maybe he's not trying his best to attend this party.
> 
> If I were you I'd ask him to make it up to you by taking you somewhere you really want to go for a night out. At least that way you can both enjoy yourselves.


Did you not read the parts of her posts where he doesn't want her to be anything beyond a wife and mother, women don't belong at football games, can't drive, can't be trusted, etc? This is way beyond him not wanting her dancing drunk with other men.


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## turnera

Please know we are NOT telling you to leave your husband. 

We are telling you that you have just as much rights as he has. But HE isn't going to GIVE those rights to you. You have to CLAIM THEM.

And you can do that slowly. Like I said, this party is just a symptom. Go or don't go, it won't affect your marriage. If you're too scared to stand up to him for this one party, that's fine. But start thinking about how you're going to get equality back in your marriage. We can help with that.


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## lovelygirl

It's like his mind is thinking all the worse case- scenarios because probably in the past he has done some of the worst things himself and is afraid that his friends will do the same to you. He's projecting his thoughts/fears on you. 
I would say he has A LOT more than just insecurity/trust issues. He's being abusive, controlling, unfair, disrespectful, hateful (towards women in general). He has probably been dealing with *hores his whole life and is afraid you might do the same. 
If he sees you like that then he doesn't really know you. It's time to re-consider who you've married.

And please, don't leave the house even if he threatens to kick you out. The house belongs to you both so he has no right to make you leave. If he wants, he can leave. 

Be determined!


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## LonelyinLove

Seriously, if I were in your shoes, that jerk would find out what the underside of a #10 cast iron skillet feels like....no way would I tolerate that treatment.

Go to the party, find someone who can give you a ride home, and stay as long as you want. If he tries to lock you out of your home, call the police.

Start a journal and document EVERYTHING. Do screen saves of the online stuff. Get a VAR and record his words to you.

The only way a bully backs off is when his victim fights back.


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## Perfectlynot

So... Went to court for an issue that is regarding unpaid medical bills. We were in his pick up truck with our three kids lined up in the back and I asked him to stop at Dunkin donuts. He will barely acknowledge me. I hand him money for it and he takes the change from the cashier and literally throws it at me. Right in front of our kids. I know they see and hear everything especially my 7 year old son. I told him you can be mad at me but throwing things at me is not okay. Same way I have to talk to our 3 year old. I used to feel like a piece of **** but that was the old me. This is unacceptable. I've got to keep my head on straight and not lose sight of what I know is right and wrong. My 7 year old is acting out now and I don't really have the patience right now. It's all too much. I told him I know you're upset but treating me this way isn't going to help me understand. I'm trying so hard. Is it ok for people to do things out of anger? I just know he'll never apologize and if he did he would only do it to satisfy me not because he really meant it. This is not good you guys... My mother controlled me my entire life. I devoted my life to trying to make her happy. He allowed me to grow in our relationship to realize my family was toxic but not enough to be an individual in this relationship. I wish he would talk to me and listen to me. He told me he probably won't want to talk at all. I have so much to say and I would listen. He said he's sick to his stomach just being near me.


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## Perfectlynot

My mother demasculinized my father so horribly I swore I would never do that to a man. Plus, my mother was so controlling that I never was able to exercise my own judgement. Right now I feel like an object she had that she handed to my husband. How easy would I be to control? Already groomed and seeking someone to please. I am so messed up.


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## happy as a clam

Perfectlynot said:


> *He even stooped as low as threatening to kick me out.* That's really extreme for him. It doesn't seem to fit the crime that isn't being committed.


I rest my case. He is jealous, controlling and now proving that he's a complete horse's arse... threatening to _kick you out????_ Because you want to go to a party at your _neighbor's house???_

And you're actually putting up with this?


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## turnera

Perfectlynot said:


> My mother demasculinized my father so horribly I swore I would never do that to a man. Plus, my mother was so controlling that I never was able to exercise my own judgement. Right now I feel like an object she had that she handed to my husband. How easy would I be to control? Already groomed and seeking someone to please. I am so messed up.


We either become our parents or we pick someone just like them. It's just basic psychology. Unless we're seeing a therapist to help us figure out our dysfunctional parents and see that we are NOT them and don't have to be, we just naturally fall into that pattern - and repeat it with OUR kids.

Which is why I'm telling you to not mess with the marriage stuff. You probably couldn't handle trying to stand up to him, especially since he is now ramping up the pressure and anger to try to put you back in your place. Instead, find a counselor, preferably an actual psychologist (with a PhD - more training), that you can easily get to at least once or twice a month. 

What you really need is to learn to love yourself, find your worth, the stuff you didn't get by growing up thinking you had to earn your mom's love (note: mothers should give you love unconditionally). Learn that you have rights, that if you do stay married to this man, things will have to change. The therapist can help you do that. But it won't be easy, it won't be fast, and you'll have to go through a lot of hard stuff to come out better at the other end.

That's why I'm saying don't push things too much with your husband. WE can see that you have just as much right to the family money as he does, but YOU say 'what will I do, I have no money.' Those are things you have to work on, to change your frame of mind, I hope that makes sense.


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## ConanHub

OP your H has some serious issues that need a firm hand now or you are going to need to leave.

Forget the party and get help! Start calling around and find help for coping with abuse. Your H is volatile and abuses you in front of your children.

Does he think you cheated? He is acting bizarre for a man described as caring.
He could lose his job if you get a R.O. against him. Throwing things at you is possibly good enough for one.

Is he out of his mind?

You have to be strong because this is about much more than a party.

If your H won't get help, you need to leave or be a prisoner for the rest of your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Perfectlynot

Well- I thought I was unfair to him some part of our relationship because I did tell him he was controlling and jealous, I disrespected him (eye rolling, not respecting his boundaries), confided in my family (to him is considered a big breach of loyalty). He was going through his own struggle at a time in our marriage and once that happened my mother started to water her seedlings that she planted when we met. He doesn't love you... My family has to come help you because he can't... We have to take care of your kids because he won't... He doesn't want you to be happy... He wants you all to himself. She may have a point which is what I'm trying to figure out but SHE wanted me all to herself. To divorce him and move back in with her! I agreed that we should get a divorce. I threw his mistakes in his face but I changed my mind. I was mean and resentful and unforgiving. I could be so much better. I decided to make it work. When I told her I didn't want to divorce him she went into a rage. She wished he would die and wouldn't take it back, she threatened to come over an beat my a$$, I went to a dog show (I show dogs) they were there and this is after I stopped talking to her and they (my family) sent text messages to my phone posing as a man that I cheated with that weekend, the list is endless. I know breaking away from the dysfunction was absolutely right. This is another issue now. Leading up to wanting a divorce I was dancing in my kitchen and my sister posted the video on Facebook. The guy that we were training dogs with made a joke about a dance off. I entertained it. That was a serious betrayal in my husbands eyes. I posted pictures of myself and thanked everyone and anyone who would say anything nice to me. I was reckless and desperate and depressed... It's embarrassing but it happened. I tell him all the time how sorry I am that I hurt him. I am sorry. It's been 7 months since I've spoken to family and been recovering and growing stronger slowly and steadily.


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## Perfectlynot

Do you still think the same after that? He stayed by my side when I had to face the harsh reality of my imperfections... Do I abandon him now? That part doesn't feel right. I feel fake.


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## Perfectlynot

So, when I was one foot out the door he DID work on these things and it was GREAT. It gave me the space and freedom to decide that I didn't want to leave him. But now he claims when he did that I burned him so badly and that I'm going to do it again. He has seen the changes. I take responsibility for hurting him. I didn't know better but I do now.


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## happy as a clam

I'm confused. Did you cheat on him while you were married? As in a physical affair?


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## ConanHub

So your family made it look like you cheated or you did?

All that behavior of yours does make a little more sense why he is reacting the way he is.

It was good to cut out your family if they were simply toxic.

You two need MC. Set that up and start working on your marriage.

After you are both healthy and have established healthy boundaries, then worry about parties.

It sounds like damage was done to your marriage and never properly healed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Perfectlynot said:


> I was reckless and desperate and depressed... It's embarrassing but it happened. I tell him all the time how sorry I am that I hurt him. I am sorry. It's been 7 months since I've spoken to family and been recovering and growing stronger slowly and steadily.


When I married my H I was 21. I didn't know any better. I didn't understand why I was so miserable. I even kind of flirted with a guy in a class I was taking at college for 2 or 3 classes until I felt guilty and made sure I showed him my wedding ring the next class so he would back off. But I didn't know how to deal with the controlling and the jealousy and his talking bad about my friends and family and guilt-tripping me if I wanted to see them...I felt trapped! 

So yeah, you had some growing up to do. BUT YOU DID IT. And you walked away from the bad behavior. You learned, you fixed yourself, and now he has a great loving wife who does not DESERVE to be treated like this. Right?

So stop apologizing, ok? You've apologized ENOUGH and he KNOWS you now know better than to include him. If you continue to apologize, you are merely handing him your OWNERSHIP on a silver platter. Stop it.

Now it's time to focus on what HE is doing, now that you've straightened out your side.


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## turnera

Perfectlynot said:


> Do you still think the same after that? He stayed by my side when I had to face the harsh reality of my imperfections... Do I abandon him now? That part doesn't feel right. I feel fake.


We are not telling you to abandon him.

We are telling you to EDUCATE yourself about his dysfunctions and thus what YOUR role should now be in your marriage. You have the capacity to learn and grow and LEAD HIM to a healthier marriage where BOTH of you are getting what you need. A good therapist is going to help you achieve that.

For example, with my first therapist, I was about 33-36 when I went to see her, she knew exactly what our situation was like. I wasn't 'allowed' to do anything on my own, he had to go everywhere with me, and if I tried to do anything, he guilted me like crazy. One time, he even managed to have a beam in the garage fall on him and hurt him while I was out 'galivanting around' (I was helping my dad build his beach house that weekend) - and for a good ten years after that, if I ever said I wanted to go ANYwhere without him, he'd throw it in my face - how selfish I was to want to be anywhere else. So I basically stopped doing ANYTHING without him. I became a shell of a person. I was scared to death of his 'disapproval' and I avoided doing anything that would make him disapprove of me.

Anyway, my IC gave me just one homework: to tell my H on Saturday morning that I was going to go to the mall and go window shopping (another issue: I wasn't allowed to spend money). That's all. Just say "I'm gonna go to the mall, I'll be back in a couple hours." 

She tried to get me to just say that one thing to him - for over two years, she tried, and I could never do it. I was too terrified to upset him.

I did finally get to the point where I could do it, with the help of a different IC, but it wasn't until DD24 was in college! And even today, I have that little voice in my head that first asks myself if my leaving the house will get an attitude from him.

That's the kind of thing we're trying to get you to move past. You need an equal partnership, ok? Where you both wake up feeling safe and secure and loved and respected. Therapy will help you achieve that.


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## Steve1000

Perfectlynot said:


> Woman hater sounds about right... I'll go with that. A woman can't run the county, women suck at driving... He makes jokes about women needing to "know their place".
> 
> So turnera- would YOU go on Saturday?


I'm a male, but if I was you I would go. I believe in boundaries in a marriage and there are some things that I wouldn't want my wife to do. However, from what you've described, your husband is a very controlling person to the point of being ridiculous. Your original post is about him objecting to the party, but he is being much more unreasonable in your other examples. 

Going on Saturday will cause tension, but possibly it will open the door to him respecting you more. However, I wouldn't be over optimistic. Instead, he may grow more and more controlling and more difficult to live with. 

In my opinion, it is ok if he needs some reassurance sometimes, but his thinking and actions are not normal and not healthy.


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## Perfectlynot

I did NOT cheat. They knew how to start trouble for me. He's been all over my emails, Facebook, cell phone- anything he wants to see i will and did show him.


----------



## Perfectlynot

Yeah Tunera, what you say strikes a chord. I have to be strong. I'm surprised to hear so many people say it sounds unhealthy and abusive. He would be furious if he read this. 

I said he was wonderful and took care of me when I lost this last baby and had to have my tubes tied but the truth is he took overtime shifts because we needed the money even though I begged him not to. I could barely get up. Both daughters were sick with the flu and I couldn't meet those needy demands. He told me to ask the neighbors to help. They did help and now I'm better. 

I'm a big part of the problem. I could kick him to the curb and start over but I'm still the same. I get what you're saying Tunera. We went to marriage counseling and he wouldn't go back because he said the therapist individualized us. The therapist in a nutshell said I'm too needy and he's to controlling.


----------



## Perfectlynot

He's so angry that I'm on my phone. Not because he wants to talk me. Just because he doesn't know what I'm doing on here.


----------



## ConanHub

Perfectlynot said:


> I did NOT cheat. They knew how to start trouble for me. He's been all over my emails, Facebook, cell phone- anything he wants to see i will and did show him.


Good. Get yourselves into MC and talk about this. There are great tools that can help restore trust and improve communication.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

I think I recommended that you read this book. Have you looked at it yet? It will help educate you on what you're dealing with.

All About Abuse ? "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft online...

Amazon.com: Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men (9780425191651): Lundy Bancroft: Books



> He's so angry that I'm on my phone. Not because he wants to talk me. Just because he doesn't know what I'm doing on here.


That's the typical controller's actions - low self esteem, assumption that you are going to decide you don't want him, so he tries to monitor everything you do so he can stop you before you see that you can get better.


----------



## turnera

My DD24 is an only child, healthy self esteem, knows she's loved and wanted. So when she started dating a guy who was a controller, it was fascinating to watch her change - from a healthy, fun-loving person to one who doubted everything she did, apologized to him all the time, begged his forgiveness, gave up her friends to avoid his criticism, and STILL got chewed out for everything she did. It was horrible to watch her change like that. 

Luckily, he decided she 'lied' to him by not disclosing past boyfriends, so she wasn't virtuous enough, and he kicked her out of his apartment. She came home to us. Thank God. Because then by being away from him, she was able to 'de-program' from his mental abuse and controlling behavior, and started becoming her fun-loving self again. And of course, he came back a few months later, 'willing to give her another chance.' By that time, she was herself again and she just laughed at him. She saw how pathetic he was. 

But while you're in it, it's really hard to see it. That's where you're at. You're starting to see the truth, starting to wonder if maybe it's NOT all just you, that maybe you deserve more, and don't want to be so stressed and unhappy.

You'll get there.


----------



## dearhubby

My wife is about 10 years younger and I can understand it takes more strength not to be jealous about all those young men in her age. 

Few points for your husband to think about:
* When a man "looks" at my wife I can think either that he disrespects her or simply can be flattered or be jelous. I choose to be flattered. 
* Asking your wife to not to talk with other men? Really? I thought it happens on bad movies only. That's disrespectful to your wife. It is a total lack of trust. Zero trust whatsoever. I don't take his reasoning about the disrespect. I might get jealous sometimes when my wife speaks with the other men but I know that as soon as I will come over to them she will include me in this conversation so I'm fine.


----------



## ConanHub

If he refuses counseling you two sound stuck but you can't allow abuse. Not just for yourself, your children will be harmed witnessing your dysfunctional relationship with your H.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TomCat11

I believe he trust you. He doesn't trust the other people. There is an element of control with him but he can't control the other guys. I know this from experience, the right mood, the right song, the right drink, the right lighting, the right smell and the right opportunity can lead to a mistake that could ruin a marriage. However, what are ya gonna do? You can't live in a bubble. I say go and help him grow. Just don't mess up. 

Have you considered the fact that maybe HE might be up to some hi jinx while you're not looking and he understands the dynamics of an "unguarded" wife on a blanket sipping on a glass of moscato?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Perfectlynot said:


> He's so angry that I'm on my phone. Not because he wants to talk me. Just because he doesn't know what I'm doing on here.


Sounds like my ex. Didn't want to talk to me but got po'd because I'd talk to my dad on the phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl

Perfectlynot said:


> He's so angry that I'm on my phone. Not because he wants to talk me. Just because he doesn't know what I'm doing on here.


Be careful! Don't let him grab your phone, or else things will get worse and you won't have access to the forum anymore.


----------



## turnera

Gotta agree. If you start standing up to him, expect him to ramp up the pressure on you. Most controllers will ASSUME that someone else is TEACHING you how to stand up to him, so he will start snooping to FIND that person, and he'll believe he has the right to take your phone or computer and CATCH you. That's how their minds work.


----------



## Perfectlynot

I'm immature. That's why I don't understand. I don't care about my marriage and I'm trying to be an individual. Does all that still sound absurd? Thats the end of a long long on a hamster wheel argument.


----------



## turnera

Perfectlynot said:


> I'm immature. That's why I don't understand. I don't care about my marriage and I'm trying to be an individual. Does all that still sound absurd? Thats the end of a long long on a hamster wheel argument.


I don't follow. Is that what he is telling you?


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## Perfectlynot

Yes that's what he's telling me. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150812041524AANrhDG


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## Perfectlynot

He's hanging on to that one lady Thornberg- that she said I'm immature.

Maybe I should show him this forum... I've been more honest and given more detail to get accurate opinions than he did. 

He did say he was wrong for throwing things at me, yelling in my face, mumbling under his breath an rolling his eyes. It felt so good to hear I shouldn't be treated like that.


----------



## turnera

Wow. So now he says he's leaving you because one guy agreed with him?


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## Perfectlynot

I need to learn what healthy boundaries are- you are right about that. He says he gets offers to go to parties where there are 3 girls to a guy and he declines them. That he wouldn't even consider going because he's a married man. I think... Sorry I don't know how to copy and then respond to the comment like you guys do- but the guy who said that he feels like I'm being disrespected if I get looked at... That's how he thinks. And he considers himself my protector. I set him up to fail a bit because when I met him I was looking for someone to take care of me... All my jacked up needs. Protection was definitely one of them. I never felt protected. Now I'm changing the rules on him. But I want to do things I enjoy. He said WE can do the things I enjoy. But I am wrong if I still enjoy those things even if he's not there?


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## Perfectlynot

No more talk of divorce. Or kicking me out. When I told him it wasn't right that he threatened me he said he did it because I gave him the impression he should leave. I asked him what I said but he came up with nothing.


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## turnera

Look, you're not going to solve your marriage in one week. You both clearly have resentments. Those things you explained away, the dancing in the kitchen for example - HE says that you were dancing provocatively for a MAN on FB. What's the real truth? If it's somewhere in between what you're telling us and what he's saying over there, then you need to be honest with us or we could be giving you dangerous advice. He says you wanted a divorce. He says you slept with your phone under your pillow. Around here, those are red flags for cheating.

So what's the real truth?


----------



## turnera

Perfectlynot said:


> No more talk of divorce. Or kicking me out. When I told him it wasn't right that he threatened me he said he did it because I gave him the impression he should leave. I asked him what I said but he came up with nothing.


No, over on that link you gave, he said he's done. Just a few minutes ago.


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## Perfectlynot

I haven't checked what he's posting but yes I slept with my phone under my pillow. I demanded privacy, not to be treated like a child. My sister posted me dancing and it went from there. I did not dance for anyone in particular. I wouldn't have posted me dancing ever at all. I had hair dye in my hair in my kitchen. My mom and I would dance together but the video was just me. There was red flags for cheating, yes. But I didn't cheat. I felt lost.


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## phillybeffandswiss

So.........he gives an entirely different version of your past than what you have said here. How much of what he said is accurate?


----------



## turnera

I would like to go there and defend you, since that's the only place HE is posting, but I can't 'give' information that you haven't provided there; he will wonder how I know what I know. So I suggest you go over there and defend yourself against his accusations, since it's the only place he'll listen to advice.


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## thread the needle

Your husband burned all of his time and favors caring for you after losing a child. 

He offered to take you until 9. 

He is uncomfortable with other drunk men he knows oogling you and talking about you behind his and your back. 

What we have here is an utter lack of appreciation. 

Go with him to until 9 and drop it.


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## tom67

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So.........he gives an entirely different version of your past than what you have said here. How much of what he said is accurate?


:iagree:
Fair question.


----------



## sisters359

Sorry, but if he is uncomfortable that others might ogle her or talk about her, he is taking it out on the wrong person.

She's the one who has born 8 pregnancies in 8 years. So why can't he appreciate that she needs a little fun time in a friendly family environment? She is a grown woman and can take care of herself--attractive women know how to handle creeps--hell, any mature woman does. 

As for needing "protection," OP, you are allowed to grow up and gain confidence. I personally think most people marry when immature, and the reality is, you either grow together, or you grow apart. This is why many marriages don't last--the two people either grew up into different people who no longer "fit" together, or one grew and the other didn't.

Men seem to have a lot more trouble with a woman who grows more independent, and women seem to have more issues when their man *doesn't* grow up. 

He needs to adapt to the reality that you love and want him, but you don't need him--not like you did years ago. He probably feels threatened by that, but the sure way to lose you is to fight the change, rather than embrace it. *Many* men feel threatened when their partner demonstrates (through words and/or actions) that she does not "need" him--these men are not confident enough in their own desirability; they fear that being wanted isn't enough. 

Get marriage counseling and work to grow together. If he really loves YOU, and not your former dependency, then he will step up. Good luck!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> Fair question.


Thx.
Have you read what he posted? If true, it adds a whole new wrinkle.


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## LonelyinLove

thread the needle said:


> Your husband burned all of his time and favors caring for you after losing a child.
> 
> He offered to take you until 9.
> 
> He is uncomfortable with other drunk men he knows oogling you and talking about you behind his and your back.
> 
> What we have here is an utter lack of appreciation.
> 
> Go with him to until 9 and drop it.


Disregard this horse doodle OP....

He SHOULD have taken care of her, that was his baby that was lost too.

Grown women do not have curfews.

What he have here is a controlling man who needs to grow up.


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## ConanHub

LonelyinLove said:


> Disregard this horse doodle OP....
> 
> He SHOULD have taken care of her, that was his baby that was lost too.
> 
> Grown women do not have curfews.
> 
> What he have here is a controlling man who needs to grow up.


Sure but don't be too one sided. We have an immature, flirting woman who pushes boundaries and doesn't inspire trust as well.

Two sides here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Thx.
> Have you read what he posted? If true, it adds a whole new wrinkle.


Yes I did.
They need MC now both are contributing.


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## tom67

ConanHub said:


> Sure but don't be too one sided. We have an immature, flirting woman who pushes boundaries and doesn't inspire trust as well.
> 
> Two sides here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounded like on his y page he's pretty much done.

Now IF he has been working those hours so she could stay at home and then pushes the envelope?
Just saying.


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## musiclover

OP, your husband sounds exactly like mine.. EXACTLY! Your post sent a shiver up my spine. You need to stand up for yourself or your going to end up miserable.. Everything you do, you'll be worrying if your husband is going to get upset or mad. And honestly, it sounds like even if you do stand up for yourself, your H is going to twist the story around and you're going to look like the evil one. 

This is over a backyard party. Imagine a work happy hour or get together with friends for dinner?


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## Decorum

Oh! Hes a wounderful husband!
Our sex life is great!
We are so connect and stronger than ever!
He does work too much.
But I am a stay at home mom.
He is the love of my life!
Well I did want to divorce him 6 months ago!
Yeah he is a total jerk!
It was a huge mistake marrying him!
What an abusive POS!
If he were my husband I would hit him with a frying pan and kick him out the door!
Boo! Boo! Boo!

Ahh! the ladies at work in the men's clubhouse!
Nice!

This is TAM at its finest!

Perfectlynot,


If I put all the obvious dysfunction in your marriage aside and just look at the issue itself.

I would not feel comfortable leaving my wife alone in an atmosphere that involved drinking and dancing ( I know, I know you are not going to dance with men, etc), and my wife is a strong and independent woman as much any one this board, and she would not stay, not because she is afraid of me, hell no.
It is just the way she rolls.


You have picked the worst possible issue to make a point with, use better judgment here.

Now if you want to divorce this abusive jerk, you need to get your ducks in a row, dont make waves, private accounts, a job lined up and a place to stay, then love him up all good and sloppy, hit the lawyers office and wham right between the eyes, it will be weeks before he recovers, he will be a quivering mess you will be able to control him by dishing out a little hope here and there, find a boyfriend if you can to completely demoralize him and you will be golden.

I would also suggest you set up a "Go fund you" website with your network here, to break free from this POS.

Orrrrr! (I think the best option)

If you were hoping to address these issues with your husband in your marriage then you will have to take firm action, but not by behaving in a way that inflames his insecurity, but by forcing the issue of counseling and communication or you walk, do that with the help of professionals not the ladies in the mens clubhouse. 

I think you are showing a great deal of emotionally maturity in your life (your visit to TAM notwithstanding.)


Go back to who you were at your first post but resolve to find your voice in your marriage, and you will do well.

He may or may not get on board (in this case I think he will, he is use to winning by bluffing, I could be wrong though.) Your solutions should always be a win win until you can go no farther and then you will have to separate, but I doubt it will come to that permanently.

You can show respect and still not be a doormat.

You have bigger fish to fry that a few hours of difference at this party. Seriously, you are not being reassuring at all here, it can look suspicious. I don't believe you have evil intent but in his mindset I can see how he cannot look past it.

I have spent many hours in prison, working with inmates, it is interesting how they think.

They think that everyone thinks like they do but just will not admit it. The child molesters think every male wants to do what they have done but are cowards to admit it.

If your husband is a reformed cheater, as he said, he still thinks every make thinks like he did, and knows that targeting an intoxicated, unhappy and abandoned (feeling) female has a good chance of success.

Listen you are not going to solve that before Saturday. Point is until he works to reprogram that thinking he is hardwired to see things that way. Can you not make a concession for that knowing that you WILL address the larger issue here and leave with him?

Or yeah get out that #10 fry pan beat his a$$ and bury him in the back yard, that will work too, then you can replace him as a husband and father with a younger model. Let freedom ring sisters, Its independence day!


----------



## inhope

The way I see it here.

A man who works hard, but is free to do as he pleases the rest of the time. 
He has a SAHM to look after his house and tend to his kids, he protects her in his way, BUT he will not let her be herself or let her out of his sight. He controls her. He is older, he is the man, he is the boss.
He is "good" to her, but only on his terms.

The SAHM has had a terrible time recently, miscarriage and the end of her reproductive life, at 29 - finito. Big milestone for her.

Yard party, music, friends, neighbours, colleagues - she wants fun, she wants out of the dreary, upsetting and mundane existence of her life for a short time, she is young and fit and healthy, she is only 29. She is not ready for the slippers by the fire and reading Woman's Weekly

BUT he sees that spark burning in her, and that spark is for music, dancing and fun and he hates it. 

He is working that night, by coincidence or by design, I am not sure, and he cannot possibly allow that spark to exist, whilst he is not there. He has to extinguish it.
ANYTHING could happen and that is unacceptable, unthinkable.

So he makes a huge fuss, he stonewalls, he threatens, he threatens big, he HAS to make sure he is in total control.
He is not thinking of his wife, he is not thinking that perhaps after all she has been through and lost, she deserves a little fun, she deserves some down time, some time hanging out with friends and neighbours. 
NO he needs control, she is HIS puppet and HE decides when she dances, and when she sings, she is NOT allowed to make those decisions.

Only, as someone else pointed out elsewhere, this is not 1815, this is 2015.
He is totally in the wrong here.


----------



## thread the needle

I wonder how many women here recommending the OP blow off her husbands wishes are divorced. 

For the bitter divorced hens, what you call controlling, successful couples call boundaries, respect and consideration for your spouses point of view.

Grown women don't have curfews? Please! You want your spouse out all night at a place you are not comfortable with them being? 

Um bull$hit you do unless you're a liar or stupid and likely a failure at successful relationships.

Give me a break.


----------



## turnera

lol, you're a hoot. This 'hen' has been married 35 years. My H has no curfew because I trust him. He entertains people a lot. He has even taken men to strip clubs because that's where his clients want to go. I know he'll always come home to me. He encourages me to go have fun with my friends and if I wanted to go to a club or for a weekend, he'd be fine - now.

Five years ago? Not so much. Five years ago he was just like OP's husband - as long as I did things HIS way, we were fine. And when I dared expect to be able to go out on my own...look out - passive aggressiveness, guilting me, silent treatment, shaming, refusing to help with the household...

And then I went to therapy and learned that what's good for the goose is good for the gander and that my marriage would improve if I held myself equal to him. And it has - hugely. Our marriage is better and more fulfilling now than it has been in 35 years. And because I no longer have to sit at home and wait for him without the benefit of me getting to go out like he did, my resentment is gone and I'm happier than ever to meet his needs and ensure he is happy.

Now, if this woman had a habit of going out drinking, if she had a bunch of single girls she went out with, if she hadn't tried to give birth 8 times in 8 years, I'd say you were right on. But that's not what we are discussing. We're discussing a LAWN PARTY with families and friends that will wrap up at 11:30. And she has stated multiple times she doesn't even intend to STAY until 11:30 - she just doesn't want to be TOLD - like a child - when she has to be home.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Yep, this "hen" is also happily married. But nice try with name calling and insults, that's usually a sign of lack of a logical argument.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Perfectlynot

The video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PNs8y0lhBJc

I will hop on fb when everyone should be sleeping or they'll accuse
Me of snooping their pages


----------



## OnTheFly

This party isn't the issue, just a flashpoint. Please get into intensive personal and marriage counselling and stop arguing about it here or on Yahoo.


----------



## turnera

OP, you didn't reply to a lot of the things he accused you of over there. It would probably help if you could do so, since that's the only place he's discussing it - and not in an inflammatory way. You get more with honey than vinegar, you know.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Well, she did confirm there were "mistakes" and "red flags" in an unclear manner. It is why I asked for clarification.


----------



## musiclover

thread the needle said:


> I wonder how many women here recommending the OP blow off her husbands wishes are divorced.
> 
> For the bitter divorced hens, what you call controlling, successful couples call boundaries, respect and consideration for your spouses point of view.
> 
> Grown women don't have curfews? Please! You want your spouse out all night at a place you are not comfortable with them being?
> 
> Um bull$hit you do unless you're a liar or stupid and likely a failure at successful relationships.
> 
> Give me a break.


The only thing this hen is bitter about is putting up with a jealous control freak for 21 years. Crazy I know, but it sure feels good to go out to eat at TGIFs and not be interrogated the minute I walk in the door. You obviously don't live in that sort of environment, or you wouldn't be so harsh. 

And I don't think OP planned on hanging out at BBQ all night lol. Then yes, I would certainly agree that she was crossing all sorts of boundaries.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

They both failed each other when the baby died. I was ready to say "divorce that control freak" until she posted the yahoo thread. Until she refutes what he said, I am going to believe she told a hyperbolic version of his actions, on this website, while minimizing her own.

Yes, if we are in reconciliation, what he claims she did warrants his attendance and her leaving the party when he does. He did some major things wrong when the baby died, but what she did was equally, in my eyes more so, damaging if true.


----------



## ConanHub

phillybeffandswiss said:


> They both failed each other when the baby died. I was ready to say "divorce that control freak" until she posted the yahoo thread. Until she refutes what he said, I am going to believe she told a hyperbolic version of his actions, on this website, while minimizing her own.
> 
> Yes, if we are in reconciliation, what he claims she did warrants his attendance and her leaving the party when he does. He did some major things wrong when the baby died, but what she did was equally, in my eyes more so, damaging if true.


Is there a link to the other thread you are referencing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

ConanHub said:


> Is there a link to the other thread you are referencing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes.


Perfectlynot said:


> Yes that's what he's telling me. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150812041524AANrhDG


Read the one with 80 comments and starts with "Hi everyone. I'm the wife in question."


----------



## ConanHub

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes.
> 
> Read the one with 80 comments and starts with "Hi everyone. I'm the wife in question."


WOW!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

He has told her that since he's 10 years older than her he's smarter and wiser and she's supposed to do what he says. He has told her that HE created everything and she should be grateful to him for it, not questioning him. He's said he's going to divorce her now. She's now said in PM that she can't post on forums anymore. Sounds like a great guy.


----------



## lifeistooshort

turnera said:


> He has told her that since he's 10 years older than her he's smarter and wiser and she's supposed to do what he says. He has told her that HE created everything and she should be grateful to him for it, not questioning him. He's said he's going to divorce her now. She's now said in PM that she can't post on forums anymore. Sounds like a great guy.


I'd say the older and wiser attitude is common among age differences. That's why I say that the younger partner must be a type A steamroller, to balance that out. My hb felt the same way and he has no issues with women like this guy does, but I'm not controllable. We're partners because I don't tolerate less, and I have plenty of my own money so he can't use the what he created argument. I don't even think he would, but he can't. 

I think this guy is insecure and couldn't handle a real partner so he found a very young woman he wanted to bang and figured he could control her, which so far he can. 

But guys like this will come to resent that they provide everything if wife doesn't kiss their arse because they feel that they've accomplished everything and she is benefitting so why shouldn't she do what he says? Because she should be eternally grateful to him. 


I think he'd be doing her a huge favor to divorce her.. . Let him find another woman who agrees she's beneath him. I think he'll have a hard time with that because he doesn't have that much to offer. Sounds like he doesn't make much money, he's going to have to support OP and 4 kids, and he's a nasty pr!ck. Good luck to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

He's a cop, I believe.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

From reading this thread, and the yahoo thread, and watching the dancing video, it sounds to me like our our OP acting in some inappropriate ways when her life spiraled a bit out of control after losing the baby. Even though she isn't dressed provocatively in the video and it really does seem like a "dance off" kind of thing, it was not appropriate to send to a man she'd just met. Just a bad judgment call. 

Neither one of these folks has said she ever cheated on him. But, because of some bad judgment calls, he'll never trust her even though she's taken steps to try to prove herself trustworthy (i.e. deleting FB). 

From reading the yahoo mess, there are obviously a lot of issues in this relationship, not the least of which is that the husband is controlling. 

I hope she makes it home in one piece tonight, and I don't mean because of attending the party and driving home alone.....


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Bad judgment call? Sorry, we must be reading completely different comment sections. I'd agree exceptif the videos was the only accusation. He made some hefty accusations and she has only denied 2. She denied his comments about the video and when he accused her of physical and verbal abuse. She refuses to answer the other accusations here or there and keeps shifting the focus onto him.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Bad judgment call? Sorry, we must be reading completely different comment sections. I'd agree exceptif the videos was the only accusation. He made some hefty accusations and she has only denied 2. She denied his comments about the video and when he accused her of physical and verbal abuse. She refuses to answer the other accusations here or there and keeps shifting the focus onto him.


I could have missed it. Did he accuse her of cheating on him?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

SecondTime'Round said:


> I could have missed it. Did he accuse her of cheating on him?


Yes and no. He says he didn't think she was, but all of the red flags caused him to snoop. You do not have to "cheat" to erode and destroy trust in a marriage. 
*
Husband's Allegations:*
Took ring off at bars.
Asked for a divorce.
Asked for space.
Needed to find herself.
Called a realtor to sell the house without his knowledge.
Flirted with strangers on Facebook.
Wanted to work as a bar waitress.
Slept on phone.
Password protected Facebook and the phone.


According to her husband, the dance video led to private messages and her posting cleavage shots wearing a wet t-shirt. Also, he claims this same guy sent her a porn picture during their FB conversations. He says six month ago she says eight.

People asked for clarification long before she was "banned" from forums. You know, while she still sends PMs and talks to people on forums.


This is what she said after many of these allegations:
"*You are bringing up things that upset you but you didn't divorce me over those things*."

To be fair, he sounds abusive and controlling in the OP. Yet, taking the above allegations into account, many people on this very thread have suggested a boundary like the one he is attempting to enforce.


----------



## staarz21

After reading the Yahoo threads, I think she has been wildly inappropriate and he doesn't trust her. That's why he is acting the way he is. She should have compromised to go home when he left until he is comfortable trusting her again. I honestly don't blame him one bit. I really hope this party is worth it.


----------



## lovelygirl

Perfectlynot said:


> He did say he was wrong for throwing things at me, yelling in my face, mumbling under his breath an rolling his eyes. It felt so good to hear I shouldn't be treated like that.


From the yahoo thread, he says the same about you...that you have physically attacked him. 

To be honest, posting that video and then exchanging flirty messages with another man, is WAY INAPPROPRIATE for a married woman.
In addition to that, you've asked for divorce, taken off the ring while at the bar....and so on.

You haven't been trustful in the past so I understand now why he was reluctant to leave you alone at the party.

So, did you end up going or not?


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## LonelyinLove

thread the needle said:


> I wonder how many women here recommending the OP blow off her husbands wishes are divorced.
> 
> For the bitter divorced hens, what you call controlling, successful couples call boundaries, respect and consideration for your spouses point of view.
> 
> Grown women don't have curfews? Please! You want your spouse out all night at a place you are not comfortable with them being?
> 
> Um bull$hit you do unless you're a liar or stupid and likely a failure at successful relationships.
> 
> Give me a break.


Married 37 years here...

I repeat...grown women do not have curfews. 

If there are issues, they need discussed, but the OP's a$$hat H is totally disregarding her feelings and what she has been through recently.

If she has acted inappropriately, she should not be surprised at his response, however, he had the opportunity to go with her to the party.

If my H were ever that jerky, he'd be watching my tail lights as I leave for the party. And he knows it....


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## ConanHub

LonelyinLove said:


> Married 37 years here...
> 
> I repeat...grown women do not have curfews.
> 
> If there are issues, they need discussed, but the OP's a$$hat H is totally disregarding her feelings and what she has been through recently.
> 
> If she has acted inappropriately, she should not be surprised at his response, however, he had the opportunity to go with her to the party.
> 
> If my H were ever that jerky, he'd be watching my tail lights as I leave for the party. And he knows it....


Still two sides. If you were behaving like an idiot and your H was being jerky in response and you flipped him the proverbial bird while driving off your 37 years wouldn't have happened.

He needs a healthier way to enforce his boundaries and communicate, she needs a lot of help to grow the f up, stop destroying trust and start earning it. They need to work on this together and this party was a bad idea with where they are at in their marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyinLove

ConanHub said:


> Still two sides. If you were behaving like an idiot and your H was being jerky in response and you flipped him the proverbial bird while driving off your 37 years wouldn't have happened.
> 
> He needs a healthier way to enforce his boundaries and communicate, she needs a lot of help to grow the f up, stop destroying trust and start earning it. They need to work on this together and this party was a bad idea with where they are at in their marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well, actually, in those 37 years there were times I was an idiot and there were times he was a jerk. I guess what saved the day is that those incidences didn't occur at the same time....:grin2:


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## staarz21

ConanHub said:


> Still two sides. If you were behaving like an idiot and your H was being jerky in response and you flipped him the proverbial bird while driving off your 37 years wouldn't have happened.
> 
> He needs a healthier way to enforce his boundaries and communicate, she needs a lot of help to grow the f up, stop destroying trust and start earning it. They need to work on this together and* this party was a bad idea with where they are at in their marriage.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with this 100%. There is way too much going on between them and they are arguing over a party. The part that is disturbing is that the OP was acting like it was the end of the world that her H would rather her go home when he went to work. Like this party was somehow more important than his feelings. 

Also, she came on here not telling the whole story, trying to cover up what she had contributed to him feeling the way he did. It's easy to call him controlling and a jerk when she hasn't told the whole story of how she took her wedding ring off, was sending flirty messages, asked for a divorce, put the house up for sale, etc,etc. 

He wasn't acting irrational. He's CONFUSED by her and what the hell is going on. He doesn't know what she is going to do next. She has a lot of growing up to do if she expects this marriage to work. He needs to work on not being so paranoid over stuff too. If she is going to cheat, she is going to do it regardless of if he bans her from a party. What he needs to do is let her do what she wants, and if she CHOOSES to screw up, he needs to just leave her and not give her a second thought.


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## DoneWithHurting

OP - your past behaviors are still fresh in his mind, so no, he is not being a jerk. You have not yet convinced him that you will not once again cross boundaries.

Why is that?

All it takes is one red flag to get a husband's wheels turning. You've given him several.

And what's with the verbal and physical abuse you've rained down on him?

I hope you left with him from the party. That's the kind of thing that adds to his security.
If you stayed after he expressed his feelings and offered the compromise, then he has every right to question your motives and relive the past "red flag" experience.

Married 30+ here, also with questionable wife behaviors in the past. I understand where your H is coming from. You apparently don't.


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## ConanHub

LonelyinLove said:


> Well, actually, in those 37 years there were times I was an idiot and there were times he was a jerk. I guess what saved the day is that those incidences didn't occur at the same time....:grin2:


Timing is everything!

That is also a good point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

ConanHub said:


> Still two sides. If you were behaving like an idiot and your H was being jerky in response and you flipped him the proverbial bird while driving off your 37 years wouldn't have happened.
> 
> He needs a healthier way to enforce his boundaries and communicate, she needs a lot of *help to grow the f up, stop destroying trust and start earning it*. They need to work on this together and this party was a bad idea with where they are at in their marriage.


Normally, I'd agree, but try to remember that she did this for a VERY brief period, maybe a month, out of ten years of marriage, and she has apologized incessantly since then. And she's had, what, five miscarriages, including a 5-month-old baby? She has no family, since he made her give them up because they were toxic. She can't even talk to her sister any more. She has one friend, who has 5 or 6 kids, that he approves of. I watched my friend have 1 kid, then 2, then 3...on up to 8. And each time she had a kid, she was less and less able to have ANY time for me. By the time she had 3 kids, she told me if I wanted to see her, I'd have to come to her house because it was just too hard to wrangle them all to get in the car.

So she's basically isolated, with a bunch of kids and no job, and he tells her that it's all HIS money because HE 'created their life', she has no family, one friend she probably barely sees and doubtless has no time for her, he's 10 years older and has been pretty much controlling her life. When she'd have problems or need support, he responded by going out and working more hours. When she had her tubes tied, and she was distraught, he told her not to be such a victim. Oh, and don't forget HE gets to go out to clubs regularly with his friends and drink it up, but it's different because he's a man and it's to watch a sport.


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## turnera

staarz21 said:


> Also, she came on here not telling the whole story, trying to cover up what she had contributed to him feeling the way he did. It's easy to call him controlling and a jerk when she hasn't told the whole story of how she took her wedding ring off, was sending flirty messages, asked for a divorce, put the house up for sale, etc,etc.


The way I understand it, her SISTER posted her video on FB, and the conversations were ON FB, not in a message to one man, and it was about a dance-off, and she dared to make a message about rear ends and 'all about the bass.' She has since closed off FB, cut all contact with her whole family. And she said that at the point that she took off her ring, it was NOT about any man, not at the same time as the video her sister took, it was about their MARRIAGE and him not being there for her, since he believes since he works and she 'gets' to stay at home, that's all he has to do. She probably said she'd go work at a bar just to get a reaction out of him, since he's made it clear she's not allowed to access their money AND he's uber controlling about her around men. They never really did go into detail on that one. She has said she's never hit him; she asked him to give real examples and he didn't. 

She is no different than tons of women I see here in their 20s who marry a man 10 years older who start to find their own voice and not need a father any more, and the marriage goes downhill from there, when she starts to push back at being expected to do whatever he says and have no rights. She probably called a realtor because she was at wits' end living with him. Every one of her 'horrible actions' can be explained away with little trouble. I'm surprised you guys jumped on that bandwagon, frankly. She's not cheating, she's made NO hints at cheating, and yet because of what HE said - the controlling older insecure man who married her at what, 18? - she's a harlot? smh


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## ConanHub

turnera said:


> Normally, I'd agree, but try to remember that she did this for a VERY brief period, maybe a month, out of ten years of marriage, and she has apologized incessantly since then. And she's had, what, five miscarriages, including a 5-month-old baby? She has no family, since he made her give them up because they were toxic. She can't even talk to her sister any more. She has one friend, who has 5 or 6 kids, that he approves of. I watched my friend have 1 kid, then 2, then 3...on up to 8. And each time she had a kid, she was less and less able to have ANY time for me. By the time she had 3 kids, she told me if I wanted to see her, I'd have to come to her house because it was just too hard to wrangle them all to get in the car.
> 
> So she's basically isolated, with a bunch of kids and no job, and he tells her that it's all HIS money because HE 'created their life', she has no family, one friend she probably barely sees and doubtless has no time for her, he's 10 years older and has been pretty much controlling her life. When she'd have problems or need support, he responded by going out and working more hours. When she had her tubes tied, and she was distraught, he told her not to be such a victim. Oh, and don't forget HE gets to go out to clubs regularly with his friends and drink it up, but it's different because he's a man and it's to watch a sport.


I have no argument about his behavior. Hers is every bit as bad.

Her family had to be cut out. Marriages can be destroyed in less than a month and if she had taken off her ring to go to bars, asked for a separation, tried to sell the house without even my knowledge, physically and verbally abused me and started flirting with a guy on Facebook who saw her dancing provocatively as well as sending a picture of her breasts plastered in a wet shirt with cleavage,

she would have been divorced so damned fast it would make her fool head spin!

I don't agree with how the H is handling the situation but his mistrust has certainly been earned and a the party at this point was a very bad call. 

He has stated that he is done and that is a healthier response to her behavior than becoming abusive himself.

He has reacted very poorly to her behavior, no argument. I think a divorce is far better reaction than controlling abusive behavior that he has been exhibiting. If she won't work for quite some time to reestablish trust after nearly destroying her marriage, he should let her go. They both need some heavy marriage work right now, not social events and parties.

If they won't both commit to finding a good counselor and putting each other first, this marriage is done. It is probably too late anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyinLove

Honestly, she also needs a medical check-up....her hormones are probably messed up big time from her health issues.

And he needs to check his is emotions as well....he could still be in pain too...men lose in miscarriages just as much as women.


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## Hardtohandle

There are many people on these forums I respect immensely and Turnera happens to be one of them. She has held my hand and slapped it when needed during my own issues.. 

But I want you and others to understand a little bit about being a Police Officer and I hope others who might be in law enforcement will chime in as well.. Or those that were married to one also.

We do have issues.. I can tell you I have seen countless Cops that had date night cloths in other lockers that would leave work early to date the GF and then go home to their wives.. 

I have seen these woman at police functions.. I have seen their wives at police functions and no one ever told or ratted anyone out.. Because too many people were doing it.. 

Being a Cop means being in control. We MUST control every situation we are in.. WE ARE the people that get called for help.. We can only call more police to the situation.. But we cannot call someone higher up.. 
There is no super police.. 
We are IT... 

I have some of these issues.. My controlling issues occurred after my Ex wife affair.. I was so helpless.. It was the first time in my life I had NO CONTROL.. I could do nothing but sit on the sidelines and watch this all happen to me.. It literally broke my foundation.. 

I brought my issues into other relationships.. Only when I finally learned after *2 YEARS* to remove my emotions from certain situations did I get anything positive accomplished in my own relationship..

I have to ask if it wasn't already.. OP, where you the other woman ? Did he cheat with YOU on someone else ?.. 

Where these other people Cops at this party ? 
Again if so, he fvcking knew how scummy these guys were.. He knew that these guys would have no problem trying to fvck you..

Again I never cheated on my Ex wife.. But I am telling you and anyone here.. I have been offered sex.. I literally tossed half naked women out of my hotel room, in a nice way.. 

But I am going to be simply honest and say its somewhat common.. 

I think I surrounded myself with a bunch of good people on this job and this is why I am where I am today.. 

But with this all said.. I commend you for taking his sh!t.. 

But he does have issues that need to be addressed.. Granted I know my GF paints a different picture when she would complain about me than what is reality.. In her version she does no wrong.. 

What I can say is this.. That abuse is the worst thing that can happen in a relationship and then its followed by cheating.. 

He does have some anger issues.. Again I had them from my job as well. It doesn't justify anything but the police department is NOT a white collar job.. Bosses and other co workers do call you stupid, WTF is wrong with you.. You're retarded.. How the fvck did you get a Detective Shield, you're the dumbest m0therfvcker I ever met.. It goes on and on.. The jokes and humor is just something that the common man or woman would not understand.. Again it really, really is a cop mentality..

If someone finds a weakness in you they will exploit it to no end.. I recall when they discovered a new cop was an underwear model before coming on the job.. They literally used wallpaper glue and plastered his whole locker.. The ceiling above his locker.. The floor around his locker.. The bathroom urinals.. The wall clocks.. inside wall cases with other notices and postings with his underwear pictures..

Its the kind of job that gives you a sharp tongue or you get eaten alive.. Unfortunately that sort of stuff does carry over to what we call the real world..

There are times I say things to my GF because it is just my nature to attack back with a wise A$$ comment.. And she tells me I am not one of your friends for you to talk to me like that.. 

She is right.. I can be a d!ck sometimes myself.. 

He has issues and insecurities and he letting it all control him.. 

And it seems you are also lashing out in your own way.. 

Trust me I know being married to a cop is very different than the regular joe and it's not a slight to the regular 9 to 5 person.. Eventually we also wish we could do 9 to 5.. 

So all I am saying is he does have issues, but being a Cop amplifies these issues as well. So please take that into consideration a bit.. But he should be man enough to ask for help as well.


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## phillybeffandswiss

It is quite interesting that what she says on public forums, is wildly different than the version she posts in private messages. I mean that post from turnera is directly disputed by OP's own comments and the husband on the Yahoo thread.

Yes, I know, he is a cop. Sorry, that is no better than "well she is young." Neither proves who is right or who is wrong. Oh well, I hope they get help because I don't know who is lying. I do know their marriage is severely messed up.


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## Forest

Compromise is the key. 

He should let her stay at the party, but she should agree to wear Mom Jeans and Granny Panties.


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## Hardtohandle

Turnera mentioned a comment about the age difference. 

I think it takes a very special couple to be married when they are 10 years or more apart in age..

I have many friends who tell me to look for a 35 year old women at the age of 48.. I clearly know I just honestly would not have anything in common with a woman that young.. Again it's just me and nothing personal to women on the forums of that age group.. 

Oddly I would date women older than myself as well.


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## turnera

The thing is, older insecure men date and marry younger beautiful naive girls - just so that the girl doesn't question them, they look up them as their replacement father to tell them what to do, they feel good about being able to 'show them the world' as a wiser more experienced person, and of course because they look amazing at 18, great arm candy. What such men don't realize is that the woman is going to start maturing in her 20s, stop needing a father figure, and chafing at the restrictions she once felt safe about. And then he gets mad at HER for wanting to be treated like an adult, and not a possession. My H did the exact same thing and I wasn't able to start asserting myself until about age 50. And I can tell you, the years between 30 and 50 were HELL.

And, as expected, he barked loud enough and she ran home and gave up forums as well as FB for him. Hopefully, she'll remember what I told her and get a therapist who will help her even out their marriage on equal terms.


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## ConanHub

Where is PerfectlyNot?

Come on back and catch us up.

How did your weekend go?
Have you two talked more?

At least with you and him posting some communication is happening between you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam

ConanHub said:


> Where is PerfectlyNot?


If I'm not mistaken, she said she's no longer "allowed" to post on the forums. Does anyone know if she or the hubs are still posting on the Yahoo forum?


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## turnera

I looked yesterday and they haven't. She PM'd me and told me she won't be posting any more.


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## lovelygirl

turnera said:


> I looked yesterday and they haven't. She PM'd me and told me she won't be posting any more.


Why? Because she was disappointed that she didn't get the answers she was expecting??


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## ConanHub

lovelygirl said:


> Why? Because she was disappointed that she didn't get the answers she was expecting??


Maybe partially but her husband probably made enough of a stink that she stopped.

Too bad because letting her talk gets things out in the open, right, wrong or indifferent.

I don't like his tactics. Very unhealthy and doesn't get the problems in their marriage solved.

She definitely has her issue but they are exacerbated by his bullheaded manipulation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl

ConanHub said:


> Maybe partially but her husband probably made enough of a stink that she stopped.
> 
> Too bad because letting her talk gets things out in the open, right, wrong or indifferent.
> 
> I don't like his tactics. Very unhealthy and doesn't get the problems in their marriage solved.
> 
> She definitely has her issue but they are exacerbated by his bullheaded manipulation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Funny how he prevents her from posting here while he did the same on Yahoo. 

I do agree that they both have MANY communication issues to solve, but if there is no respect/love between them, then everything else is an effort in vain.


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## LainyLove22

In watching the YouTube video I felt the way she was dancing was a bit seductive ?! She says it was done I front of family I think but any guy viewing the way she danced probably would had starts thinking of naughty thoughts ?

Something that should be saved behind bedroom doors I think and oh ...... I'm not 100% certain but why wasn't she wearing her wedding ring


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## happy as a clam

They actually posted the video on the Yahoo thread?

I must have missed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round

happy as a clam said:


> They actually posted the video on the Yahoo thread?
> 
> I must have missed it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The video is somewhere in this thread, @happy as a clam


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## bandit.45

OP and her husband are both idiots...Seriously. They both need IC and MC combined. Problem is they are both too proud. 

Pride....fvcking pride...

I watched the video. Big deal. I've seen sexier dancing at a clogging recital. And who the fvck would want to go to a party just to see a mariachi band? There is not a mariachi band on the western hemisphere worth getting in an argument over. 

Reading this thread marks 30 minutes of my life I will never get back.


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## happy as a clam

Found and watched the video (page 10 of this thread).... honestly, it's quite a weird style of dancing. It's not particularly "sexy", IMHO.


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## turnera

LainyLove22 said:


> In watching the YouTube video I felt the way she was dancing was a bit seductive ?! She says it was done I front of family I think but any guy viewing the way she danced probably would had starts thinking of naughty thoughts ?


She was in her kitchen, and her sister said to dance and I'll tape you. So she did. Her sister then distributed it - the same sister she had to stop contact with because she is toxic and is always stirring up trouble.


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## bandit.45

Her dancing did not give this healthy male naughty thoughts. 

Now...if she had her ass facing the camera, wearing only a thong? :moon: Then she would be in trouble. 

Regardless, it was still foolish and childish of her sister to publish that video. Childish. This whole scenario is right out of high school.


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## ConanHub

The dancing and video were harmless in themselves, what occurred after with the toxic sister posting it and with her flirting with and then showing a wet t shirt to another man was the issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

ConanHub said:


> The dancing and video were harmless in themselves, what occurred after with the toxic sister posting it and with her flirting with and then showing a wet t shirt to another man was the issue.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right, but i can only judge what I see. 


Again, it is important to remember there are always two sides to every story. There was just something not right about her story, making her hubby out to be some mean, controlling ogre...which is why I held off shooting my mouth off until now. Now we know. :smile2:


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## lifeistooshort

After reading all of the back and forths here my assessment is now that OP is immature and hubby didn't consider that when he married her. He saw her as someone younger that he wanted to fvck, which is unfortunately the main criteria a lot of men use. The fact that she was much younger and immature didn't factor in. 

And now he's trying to deal with it by exerting a lot of control, which is understandable but unhealthy. He's basically become a controlling daddy and she's a rebellious teenager. Terrible marriage dynamic. 

And it sounds like he's a bit of an insensitive arse as well.

I don't think things look good for this couple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

lifeistooshort said:


> After reading all of the back and forths here my assessment is now that OP is immature and hubby didn't consider that when he married her. He saw her as someone younger that he wanted to fvck, which is unfortunately the main criteria a lot of men use. The fact that she was much younger and immature didn't factor in.
> 
> And now he's trying to deal with it by exerting a lot of control, which is understandable but unhealthy. He's basically become a controlling daddy and she's a rebellious teenager. Terrible marriage dynamic.
> 
> And it sounds like he's a bit of an insensitive arse as well.
> 
> I don't think things look good for this couple.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And, if we are to believe his side of the story, she is not above engaging in some inappropriate behavior with other men. 

Neither one of them has a claim to the high road.


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## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> And, if we are to believe his side of the story, she is not above engaging in some inappropriate behavior with other men.
> 
> Neither one of them has a claim to the high road.


That's why I said she's immature. Based on her age and how many kids and pregnancies she's had she had to have been REALLY young when they got together. She never got that stuff out of her system and now uses it to rebel against daddy. 

They're not in the same place emotionally. It's a common dynamic in big age differences. ....remember I have 19 years in mine so I know. But I was also 31, divorced with 2 kids when we met. I bet she wasn't out of her teens. Big difference. It's very normal for the older person to try to control, and this guy doesn't think that highly of women in general. The reason I don't have this is my marriage is because I was older when we met, I'm quite accomplished and I'm a type A steamroller. .... my hb can't do anything with me 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I've lost count of the women I've seen who, in their 20s, married to older men, start growing up and not needing a daddy any more, then start exploring their sexuality but since the 'daddy' doesn't want her to be anything other than what he married, and exerts more pressure. And she rebels against THAT. Bad cycle, doomed to fail.


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## hospitality

lifeistooshort said:


> That's why I said she's immature. Based on her age and how many kids and pregnancies she's had she had to have been REALLY young when they got together. She never got that stuff out of her system and now uses it to rebel against daddy.
> 
> They're not in the same place emotionally. It's a common dynamic in big age differences. ....remember I have 19 years in mine so I know. But I was also 31, divorced with 2 kids when we met. I bet she wasn't out of her teens. Big difference. It's very normal for the older person to try to control, and this guy doesn't think that highly of women in general. The reason I don't have this is my marriage is because I was older when we met, I'm quite accomplished and I'm a type A steamroller. .... my hb can't do anything with me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree.

Plus, because of social media relationship boundaries are being destroyed. Men and women sit right next to their spouses at night and text the opposite sex for hours. Day after day. I go to back yard parties all the time and see married men exchange FB or twitter info with people they are clearly attracted to. Really you need to follow one the regional VPs on twitter? I'm not jealous at all but I'm starting to become that way because the opposite sex seems to have zero respect for a married person especially if the spouse is slightly flirty like the OP. 

I'd rather my wife go to a bar with her girlfriends and sit in a booth with her girlfriends around a bunch of strangers than go to a house party with a bunch of guys who I know want to take her home and follow her every move on FB or Twitter.


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