# Martial Art Recommendation



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

I'm in very good physical condition, I can't help but to think that my confidence in night life activities would be greater and I would be able to provide better security for me and loved ones with some formalized training.

I was considering Krav Maga and a good base of boxing training. I wanted feedback on anyone especially real world experience.

I know that the bouncers tend to be well prepared for these situations, and perhaps working as a bouncer could build up real world experience that could be useful for other life situations?

The bouncers have an authority and also control with their presense and communication. I would like a structured approach at having similar level of communication for positions that require me to be in a controlling or dominant position.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think you're on the right track with boxing and Krav Maga.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Perhaps it depends on the environments and types of people you expect to encounter. If it's a rougher environment, your current choices are fine - or anything that will take out an opponent quickly. If you're thinking of clubs that don't attract the low life crowd, something like aikido may be better - you want to protect yourself, and stop an attacker, but not necessarily do them huge damage if they're only a little drunk and disorderly. Too much force can get you into trouble if it isn't truly justified.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Boxing isn't exotic, but I don't think there's a single thing out there that teaches you more effectively to put knuckles on someone's face.

Krav Maga is all about dealing with someone who's trying to kill you, and also dealing with multiple attackers at the same time.

Also, keep in mind that ultimately, the decision of HOW MUCH hurt to put on someone is yours. Just because you might know how to break their neck, doesn't mean that's what you have to do. But it's always good to have the tools in your toolbox.

Aikido is pretty, but unless someone is running at you with a stiff arm extended inviting you to throw them, I have my doubts about its effectiveness.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

My husband likes krav maga and escrima/Kali. The
latter is a Filipino martial art. In the Jason Bourne films, he uses techniques from that discipline.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Krav maga is good all round and also teaches weapon disarming techniques - I would recommend it
If Krav maga is unavailable I would recommend:

JJJ for its grappling techniques
Muay Thai for its elbow/knee strikes

Personally my style is unorthodox and mostly derived from personal experiences in my teens but it mirrors JJJ and Muay Thai in style as I prefered to get up close to grapple and for strikes I prefer elbows/knees as they do much more damage then punches/kicks.

If you don't have time for that, just sign up for a security course and they'll teach you crowd control and most of the time that's really all you need to control the situation (and humiliate your opponent).


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Krav maga is good all round and also teaches weapon disarming techniques - I would recommend it
> If Krav maga is unavailable I would recommend:
> 
> JJJ for its grappling techniques
> ...


I wanted that, great idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Penn & Teller - Martial Arts is Bullsh!t
The most damning information is that 100% of the people who practice martial arts are injured during training. It seems silly to practice something to keep from being injured that is basically guaranteed to get you injured.

Also, the most effective strikes are potentially lethal. If you're willing to use lethal force, nothing beats a gun.

Conclusion, carry a gun.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Of course you get injured, what's wrong with that? :scratchhead:

I never had formal training in my youth and as I started fights for practice I did get injured from time to time which just meant hospital time + morphine especially when stabbed/sliced/hammered. 

Martial arts training is safer though IMO some are too tame to be effective (such as no contact sparring - WTF) and waste of money if one wants to learn self defence.

And the most effective strikes are not necessarily lethal, the balls, kidneys, throat, solar plex, etc are still nice targets, and joints can still be broken without causing death. And fk guns.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Of course you get injured, what's wrong with that? :scratchhead:


I don't like being injured. 



> I never had formal training in my youth and as I started fights for practice I did get injured from time to time which just meant hospital time + morphine especially when stabbed/sliced/hammered.


If you like to scrap and just want to get better at it, then I'm the wrong guy to ask. I don't like it.

If I'm in a fight, it is very likely a life and death situation. If so, I will pull out my 9mm and put two in the guy's chest.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What you going to do if you live in Australia? Unless you live out in the country and threatened by dingos day by day you can't legally own a gun  lol


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> What you going to do if you live in Australia? Unless you live out in the country and threatened by dingos day by day you can't legally own a gun  lol


The training was assuming you would be in area's where you are not allowed to carry a gun. I wanted more confidence to stand strong and to handle the typical scenerios that occur in real life night life situations, like if you need to get control of a house party, being attacked by multiple attackers, using presense and communication similar to a police or security to back down the subject.

So how do I best handle myself without a gun for some typical scenarios that happen. A trained fashion, not flying by the seat of my pants and instinct.

On the guy who mentions that 100% of martial arts practitioners get "injured", I'm sure levels of injury always occur as it's part of this sport. Real injury to me is broken bone or joint, and I would like to avoid this if I can, but bruising is fine.

Some of the martial arts encompass a bully system, so coming in as a pleabe, you will take some beat downs and abuse from the teacher. Some say it's like a hierachy of vampires, they bring in the new ones for fresh meat.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

As others have said you should look at tailoring the martial art to the situation you are likely to find yourself in.

I have never trained in Krav Maga but was taught Defendu when I served in the UK military, they are not the sort of technique you should be using to control a drunk in the night club or an annoying beggar at the roadside.

If you are in fear of your life (or for the life / safety of another) then it is great as you can "take out" multiple attackers in a very short space of time but just be prepared for the law suit that will follow if you use it. 

I have twice been charge (but never convicted) for the damage I have inflicted on attackers using Defendu.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

I think you nailed it with Krav Maga and Boxing. I've been boxing a few years now and started Krav Maga last winter. As a foundation for handling a street fight, I don't think they can be beat. Not saying I'm any good. Be prepared for it to take a long time to develop useful competency, but regardless you'll have more confidence in the situations you're talking about.

On injury, I've had plenty, but they're all things like sprains, hyperextensions, bruises and muscle tweaks (don't tweak your back out, it sucks). I don't know anyone who's gotten something really major like a broken bone from training.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

The style you choose is important, but the training methodologies of the instructor are more important. When the UFC started, the Gracies came in and dominated. Is it because the style was that much better, or the training methodology? In BJJ, you do pretty much live sparring in every session. Now, you may not go 100% all out on your opponent every time, but you do learn very quickly if YOU can apply the techniques you are learning. You learn that you will have some goto techniques you can apply frequently to control a person.

I am all for styles that will teach in truly live situations. Those arts that claim their techniques are too deadly and that you can't train them live on another person are setting you up for a rude awakening if you ever need to defend yourself.

I have trained in traditional arts such as tae kwow do and a couple of the okinawan styles. I did these throughout my teens. I then did BJJ and Muay Thai throughout my 30's. I will say that BJJ and Muay Thai are far more effective. My main belief in the effectiveness is the training methodology of the arts. You go live quite frequently in these arts. So, you learn how to effectively apply the techniques in a live situation. This is often not taught in many of the traditional arts that you see available now.

So, pick a style that you feel you can use but that trains in a realistic manner. My bet is you can pretty much throw out the traditional styles available today.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

:iagree: with this. If you're not going live often at close to full speed, then you're wasting your time.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> :iagree: with this. If you're not going live often at close to full speed, then you're wasting your time.


Sounds good.

I chose boxing, because in many of these dance halls or bars, you got the drunken haymakers that could happen on you. Fights don't last but half a dozen punches at most, so with the boxing training, you would be trained to deal with this and deliver effective strikes.

The Krav Maga, I picked because part of the training revolved around real world situations, odd angles, etc but totally incapacitating a subject.

Your going to have a verbal intimidation or physical intimidation position that can occur in these situations, to be able to communicate or stance yourself effectively to createa presentation of being a hard and capable, less desireable target.

I don't plan on getting into one situation in any of these environments, and don't plan on dipping in there often. But I wanted to walk with the knowledge that I am trained to handle the sitautions that could arise, and have a toolkit to easily diffuse a situation and if required, protect myself quickly and efficiently.

From my technical mind Muay Thai did look useful and I'm glad bbdad mentioned it.

And I was also thankful to hear base security training, which would focus on presense, communication, structure and rules could be very valueable.


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## Oatmeal (Mar 30, 2012)

Ask this on Sherdog or Bullshido. They'll tell you to do something that has full contact sparring.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Oatmeal said:


> Ask this on Sherdog or Bullshido. They'll tell you to do something that has full contact sparring.


I also liked about the boxing training the padded head gear and heavily padded hands will allow you to train 100% with low risk of serious injury.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I once challenged a friend of mine in my youth in a one on one sparring session. He insisted on sparring gear, so I put on the shin guards, groin guard, chest guard, gloves, and helmet. I couldn't fking move! My vision was impaired so was my hearing and couldn't grapple with the gloves. 

It was rather tame really and I couldn't get my techniques to bear as I'm an elbow/knee striker and grappler. So in the end we just used each other as a punching bag. Fun though, I noticed I could still wind him with a strike to the solar plex through his chest guard and it was cool to lay it out and no one gets hurt. After the session I offered a match without sparring gear but he declined.

Shame really, I had other friends who I frequently fought with and we sent each other to hospital for morphine from time to time. Other times we just picked fights on the street. Much better training IMO without all the sparring gear but that's just me.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Strikes without protection are dangerous, if you hit them right - tricky to practise that full force... but still an essential part of combat techniques (not least, in learning how to block and counter.)

BJJ is very good on the ground - but on the street, especially with potentially multiple opponents, you do _NOT_ want to be on the ground.
However, some grappling skills are critical, and either BJJ or Judo will give you those - and the ability to restrain/injure/maim/disable without necessarily having to kill them (better for a bouncer) than Krav Marga, where - and whilst I have the greatest respect for the skills and techniques - as I understand it, they're designed to eliminate opponents without regard to their survival.

I would suggest a combination of striking and grappling - as mentioned above, aikido is pretty, but tends not to be practised in a useful way, whereas Judo and BJJ generally are - you can do full contact, full force grappling (and yes, injuries happen - I have a list which I could run through if I had the time) - but at least I know what works and what doesn't, against a resisting opponent.

And, of course - it's fun!

(Looks good on a CV too - I got a job interview partly because they look for people who excel outside of work, as well as in it - and a black belt with coaching credentials shows, well, something!)


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

These days it's not worth it!! I was a golden gloves recipient at 18 and took three years of jui jitsu and 1 year of judo. These days everyone has a gun in the states. I'm not fighting anyone get my ass shot and killed.

I'll find the link where a 4 degree Taekwondo blackbelt was shot and killed by a 17yr old punk. You can't beat a gun!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Looks like if I grew up in the U.S. I would have been shot by now... bah! You Americans and your guns!

What happened to the purity of unarmed combat? lol


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> These days it's not worth it!! I was a golden gloves recipient at 18 and took three years of jui jitsu and 1 year of judo. These days everyone has a gun in the states. I'm not fighting anyone get my ass shot and killed.
> 
> I'll find the link where a 4 degree Taekwondo blackbelt was shot and killed by a 17yr old punk. You can't beat a gun!


Happily the levels of gun ownership / gun crime here in the UK are very low so we get treated to reports like this from my local paper.

Would-be muggers chose cage fighter as victim (From Swindon Advertiser)


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> He then dragged Maundrell out of his car and as he did so the robber shouted ‘I’ve got a gun, I’ve got a gun,’ to which Mr Hawkins replied ‘Well get it out and shoot’.
> 
> Maundrell then said ‘I’m going to blast you’ but when the victim told him to give him his keys he threw them and fled.


:rofl:


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think the US's reputation of being a wild west shooting gallery is vastly overblown. Gun crime is down in the US overall. It also very much depends on where you live. Local culture has a lot to do with it.

I also don't think hand-to-hand training and guns (where legal) have to be mutually exclusive. Cops don't stop training in hand to hand just because they also have tasers and guns. One can very much complement the other, you just have to be judicious in which one is appropriate for the circumstances.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

treyvion said:


> I'm in very good physical condition, I can't help but to think that my confidence in night life activities would be greater and I would be able to provide better security for me and loved ones with some formalized training.


I'm actually more curious about where you're going that you feel you need Krav Maga to feel safe?

Don't get me wrong, I think boxing and Krav Maga are a blast--great workout and just fun to do. 

However, I think that if you feel they're the pre-req to going to party someplace, you might first look at finding nicer, safer places to go out.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Looks like if I grew up in the U.S. I would have been shot by now... bah! You Americans and your guns!
> 
> What happened to the purity of unarmed combat? lol


Cowards happened.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

COGypsy said:


> I'm actually more curious about where you're going that you feel you need Krav Maga to feel safe?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think boxing and Krav Maga are a blast--great workout and just fun to do.
> 
> However, I think that if you feel they're the pre-req to going to party someplace, you might first look at finding nicer, safer places to go out.


I've been to "nicer" places and sometimes things still pop off. I think it will make me feel more secure to be trained to handle some of the bad situations.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You have it backwards. Being a bouncer doesn't give you that air of confidence; they HIRE guys who have that air to begin with!

They have it because they have been in scrapes before and come out of it.

I took Krav and it probably increased my confidence to an unjustifiable level...so knowing a few tricks WILL help you. But knowing you can TAKE a hit and come out fighting has it's own power. Most people don't know that about themselves, so it's an edge.

That is the main benefit of boxing.

Know my two secrets to 'martial art' success?

One: almost all the fights I hear about involve "I was out drinking and..."

So I avoid drinking, drinkers and dives.

Two: I am aware of who is around me. Because I prefer the Nike Foot Shuffle to the 'Stopping someone's fist with my head' kata.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Looks like if I grew up in the U.S. I would have been shot by now... bah! You Americans and your guns!
> 
> What happened to the purity of unarmed combat? lol


Fists are for hospital patients. Doesn't matter who is involved...you both tend to end up getting medical care.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JCD said:


> You have it backwards. Being a bouncer doesn't give you that air of confidence; they HIRE guys who have that air to begin with!
> 
> They have it because they have been in scrapes before and come out of it.
> 
> I took Krav and it probably increased my confidence to an unjustifiable level...so knowing a few tricks WILL help you. But knowing you can TAKE a hit and come out fighting has it's own power. Most people don't know that about themselves, so it's an edge.


He said "unjustifable level". Did you think this level was getting you into trouble and causing you to close to the edge in life? Or it was something actually useful across your life?



JCD said:


> That is the main benefit of boxing.
> 
> Know my two secrets to 'martial art' success?
> 
> ...


Reality is stupid $hit happens around these situations and always will. It's normally alcohol or other drugs involved.



JCD said:


> Two: I am aware of who is around me. Because I prefer the Nike Foot Shuffle to the 'Stopping someone's fist with my head' kata.


Haha.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

treyvion said:


> He said "unjustifable level". Did you think this level was getting you into trouble and causing you to close to the edge in life? Or it was something actually useful across your life?
> 
> 
> 
> Reality is stupid $hit happens around these situations and always will. It's normally alcohol or other drugs involved.


Yes. I am saying that occasionally I think I am probably a LOT tougher than I actually am. So it is important to have someone whispering into your ear "Remember, thou art mortal". 

Even people bigger, tougher and more experienced are brought down by stupidity or dumb luck. So I try to keep things in perspective.

I won't say I never go to a bar. But if I do and IF stupid **** happens to me...I got no beef coming.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Budokan, choy lei fut gung fu, tai chi as a martial art style, wing chung. Those were my prefered styles to study growing up.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

When I was a teen, I was heavy into Tae Kwon Do. And this was fine for sparring or tournaments, but in world real situations, it was a joke. My brother is a black belt in Tai Chi (Same story, different discipline- joke in real world situations). I also tried Jiu-Jitsu and Kung Fu which are great if you are going into MMA. However, as far as real world self defense goes, IMHO, Aikido beats all for real world hand to hand combat. There is not choreography or stupid round house kicks. You go right to dismantling someone's limbs. Done. Oh, but I still have my trusty Infinity .45, just in case.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

A conversation I've had with many people over the years. I trained traditional Japanese Shotokan for 28 years in the Japan Karate Association. That said, unless you've got 5 or 6 years of full time training to devote I wouldn't recommend it. There's a UFC fighter, Machida, who is a Shotokan fighter though he supposedly have a BB in BJJ as well. Aikido (another Japanese art) is brutal but here again you need years of practice and dedication to be competent. So I'm going to support your choices of Krav Maga, and add some MMA training that combines striking and grappling. You're only as good as the people you train with (generally) so do your homework. More generally, a lot of fighting is your own spirit. If there is rage in you from your life experience and you match that with technique and conditioning, you will have the elements you need. Personal combat is like war in that you have to be ready to go beyond what the other guy will. Also don't underestimate a blade as a defensive weapon.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

If you want to be competent you need proper experience, and training with mates will only do so much. The problem I found with alot of martial artists is sure they can do all those moves, trained since they were kids, have power behind their strikes etc yet when the push comes to shove, when the pain, anger, fear and adrenaline kicks in -> everything goes out the window.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

Get a concealed carry permit and a Sig Sauer.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

-.-


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> If you want to be competent you need proper experience, and training with mates will only do so much. The problem I found with alot of martial artists is sure they can do all those moves, trained since they were kids, have power behind their strikes etc yet when the push comes to shove, when the pain, anger, fear and adrenaline kicks in -> everything goes out the window.


It comes down to the person in the end but if you're going to give me two guys roughly the same size and one has never trained in anything and the other has 4-5 years of some kind of practical close combat training (wrestling, karate, JJ, boxing etc)....my money is on horse number two.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Of course, but swap the inexperienced untrained dude with an experienced dude who trained from real street experiences for 4-5 but without any official training, my money would be on number one.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

treyvion said:


> I'm in very good physical condition, I can't help but to think that my confidence in night life activities would be greater and I would be able to provide better security for me and loved ones with some formalized training.





RandomDude said:


> Looks like if I grew up in the U.S. I would have been shot by now... bah! You Americans and your guns!
> 
> What happened to the purity of unarmed combat? lol


If the goal is to get in a fight then unarmed is good but the OP wants the ability to defend his family. A gun levels the playing field with the goal of getting you and your family safely home that night. There is no purity in adults fighting outside of a sporting event.

And criminals are not going to obey those no gun signs.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

committed_guy said:


> If the goal is to get in a fight then unarmed is good but the OP wants the ability to defend his family. A gun levels the playing field with the goal of getting you and your family safely home that night. There is no purity in adults fighting outside of a sporting event.
> 
> And criminals are not going to obey those no gun signs.


No matter how much integrity you have, you should remember this.


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## Rushwater (Feb 11, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Looks like if I grew up in the U.S. I would have been shot by now... bah! You Americans and your guns!
> 
> What happened to the purity of unarmed combat? lol


When my wife's or children's lives are on the line, "purity" is the last thing I am thinking about. Somehow, I believe that you would probably feel this way too, in a real-world situation.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't have the problem of guns where I live remember 

Only ever had knives, machetes, pipes, beer bottles etc pulled on me. Don't know if I could hold my own against a gun and definitely not walking around the street with my family carrying an illegal weapon.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Always and interesting discussion of "what if's" and "likelihoods"...


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

I am totally not trying to sound like a [email protected]$$ or anything. But, hearing these things about " street fighters" always cracks me up. Sure, you will have a diamond in the rough every now and then, but most "street fighters" throw such sloppy, winging punches that you can typically slip a few and throw some straight shots down the pipe to end it quickly.

Now, I admit that many of the traditional arts will give people a false sense of security that can get them hurt and in trouble. But, those that trained in more of the sportive combat arts (boxing, MT, wrestling, BJJ) will likely take out the "street fighter." Most that train in the combat sports will go live and experience what it is like to take a shot and to keep your composure. That is the biggest thing in combat. You are going to get hit. You just have to know how to react after getting hit.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

True, but I wouldn't call them street fighters, more like average joes who typically begin with a right hook or jab with no stance to speak of. The real fighters do have training though not formally, and know how to take what works and leave out the rest, and know how to maintain their composure in the heat of adrenaline, pain, and anger + they khow to fight dirty. Money goes to that rather than someone who's trained in boxing etc but has never had a real fight in his life.


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## Latigo (Apr 27, 2011)

Another vote for boxing here! And a grappling art. I would also like to suggest a review of WWII type material and maybe Rory Miller's work to round out your studies.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Kieran Loveridge's sentence shocking, Thomas Kelly's parents say

FOUR years for murder! =/

Starting fights for no reason is one thing, randomly attacking innocent people without provocation is another. Bleh, hate to remember that I used to mix with such people. Thank the heavens not anymore.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

@RandomDude
Shocking....sad...crazy. I can understand four years for taking another man's life without provocation. 

The other lesson here is that it only takes one punch to kill someone. It also only takes one punch to collapse facial bones, cause brain damage, nerve damage, etc. Even if the punch doesn't do it, the victim often falls to the ground contacting concrete, pavement etc and great damage is caused then. So you don't want to get hit and police and judges need to understand that one punch can be attempted murder (2nd degree probably)


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Kieran Loveridge's sentence shocking, Thomas Kelly's parents say
> 
> FOUR years for murder! =/
> 
> Starting fights for no reason is one thing, randomly attacking innocent people without provocation is another. Bleh, hate to remember that I used to mix with such people. Thank the heavens not anymore.


Their out there in the "environments"...

A small percentage in a bar pickup environment, or tough bar environment are lusting for an unprovoked attack. They will set you up.

The setup is usually a verbal setup, and the guys who do this game usually are not alone.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I really don't understand what the fun is in acting like this. When i get boozed up i'm more likely to try to randomly high-five people instead of punching them.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Fozzy said:


> I really don't understand what the fun is in acting like this. When i get boozed up i'm more likely to try to randomly high-five people instead of punching them.


Same here, I was a happy drunk throughout all my life. Never a violent one.



Shoto1984 said:


> @RandomDude
> Shocking....sad...crazy. I can understand four years for taking another man's life without provocation.
> 
> The other lesson here is that it only takes one punch to kill someone. It also only takes one punch to collapse facial bones, cause brain damage, nerve damage, etc. Even if the punch doesn't do it, the victim often falls to the ground contacting concrete, pavement etc and great damage is caused then. So you don't want to get hit and police and judges need to understand that one punch can be attempted murder (2nd degree probably)


IMO hence one needs to at least know how to take a punch. From sounds of things though the victim didn't see it coming, sad really =/


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I am a fan of ancient Japanese Pissowda. Basically, you get a stout piece of hickory and knock the piss outta whoever needs it.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I just started training in BJJ about 6 months ago. It's been really awesome. A few reasons why I like it.

1. It's not one of those bullshido martial arts where you practice to kill people and then get your a$$ kicked in a fight. We roll hard, regularly, and it's very practical from a self-defense standpoint as if you don't know any grappling, you are at a major disadvantage in a fight. The first 15 UFCs pretty much dispelled the notion that you can walk into a fight without knowing ground game.

2. The nature of the art allows you to go at a much higher intensity level and competitiveness without having ill effects. ie, you can go roll hard for 2 hours and still show up to work the next day without a busted up lip or crusty nose.

I currently train with a lot of martial art experts from other disciplines and ex-fighters, I mentioned that I wanted to get some striking training and they all pretty much unanimously said MT would be the best place to start. I asked why that over boxing and they said that if you don't first understand how to stop kicks and establish range, that someone who knew MT would never let you get in range to box.

That being said, ANY training is better than no training. Training where you regularly are sparring against a live, resisting opponent will be far superior to any martial art where you practice techniques against a guy who knows what you are doing.

Practically speaking I think the best way to train for a real fight would be to join an MMA gym, where you will rotate between striking and grappling, using a combination of the best techniques from all the martial arts, and you will be sparring regularly. But if you don't have an MMA gym around you, I'd focus on wrestling/BJJ first, then MT/Boxing/Kickboxing second.

Keep in mind there's a huge disparity in practical martial arts gyms. Some gyms will have a bunch of hot heads who will try to hurt you every training session, some will have more reserved guys who want to teach you and not use you as training bait. Read reviews, look around, don't keep training at a place where you will get injured because of some young guy's ego.

I don't have anything bad to say about Krav Maga or any of the other mixed disciplines. Only that if you watch MMA fighters, the Krav Maga guys are always supplementing their game to the point where they look more like BJJ and MT fighters than Krav Maga. If you're just starting out, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just skip the middle man and start training BJJ and MT, or go to an MMA gym directly. Also, I think there's enough Krav Maga gyms that are run like cults to make me not want to invest the time. And by cults I mean, "today we're practicing the touch of death, don't go 100%. Doing this in real life will kill someone."

There isn't a BJJ gym, or wrestling gym, or boxing or MT gym where you aren't going to spar against a resisting opponent. Even if the gym sucks you're still going to learn from the experience of losing to someone else in a fight, frequently.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

I am a fan of many martial arts; I believe Krav Maga is an excellent self-defense system.

In a sporting context and for arts that would benefit you on the street, I suggest Muay Thai and Kodokan Judo. Also a step below in terms of functional usefulness but still effective are Boxing and BJJ.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

As someone who boxed from a early age can I just say that I would not use it in a street fight.

Without gloves hitting someone (with a closed fist) hard enough to do them any real damage can break / damage the bones in your hand. Much better to use palm / heal of the hand strikes where the impact force goes straight into your long bones in your arm not through the numerous fragile finger bones.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I really don't understand what the fun is in acting like this. When i get boozed up i'm more likely to try to randomly high-five people instead of punching them.


I have a theory that there are basically three types of drunks:

Happy drunks, who high five people and express their love for all.

Violent drunks, who take offence at anything / or nothing and start fights with anyone.

Sleepy drunks, who once they have had their fill fall asleep in a corner. 

I know I am a sleepy drunk and Fozzy sounds like a happy drunk.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Wiltshireman said:


> As someone who boxed from a early age can I just say that I would not use it in a street fight.
> 
> Without gloves hitting someone (with a closed fist) hard enough to do them any real damage can break / damage the bones in your hand. Much better to use palm / heal of the hand strikes where the impact force goes straight into your long bones in your arm not through the numerous fragile finger bones.


Target softer areas with your punches and harder areas -> Elbow mate. As I'm a close range fighter/grappler I prefer elbow/knee strikes anyway.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm no fighter in a getting into them all the time sense . knew guys even in school in a few fights a wk , every wk, same later on , clubbing , partying. l've probably only had 4 or 5 in my life.
l've always been very agile and l'd say fast, l've known l could fight if l wanted to. As a kid though my mates and l messed around with Karate quite a bit to and where they'd have to train and train at most kicks , my legs could just do them straight of . Even at 13 l could easily kick a bucket or orange of the top of a standard house door , 6'7 l think .
But although l liked training with friends, l've never liked real fights. l have a lot of trouble hurting someone , strange compared to most l guess .
The few fights l have had if l put someone down l felt bad for wks after but l never understand it really because someone really has to push me before l'd go them and even then if there's a peaceful way round it l'd try it so they'd deserved it. But l would non the less , still hold right back and would only have tapped them whether kick or whatever . 
Another funny twist is my older brothers done karate 35 yrs, last l asked he was 4th dan , so he mustn't have trouble hurting an opponent.

So is that common , not wanting to hurt someone even as last resort , to actually have trouble hitting someone even though he knows he could?
Not that l wanna go out fighting it's just something l always wondered.
Like l've never let full fly onto someone, l just can't bring myself to do it.
l've realized l only ever tapped them a few times until they were out of my face.
Even this monster one time , l was having a pretty loud argument with his dad . This guy , the son , was a big man like 6'5 or something , very heavy. l could see him literally charging me like a bull from the corner of my eye. lf you ever needed to let fly this guy would be the time to do it. Yet even him l basically just let out a very light kick to the bread basket and that stopped him.
But why wasn't it a full fledge decent kick - why the hold back ? Any fight l've ever had has all been the same .
So is this something when you start training some people have to over come or is there some reason or logic to it ?
Or like if l ever have to defend myself or someone again , how do you get past it?
Maybe subconsciously l just try to get out of it with absolute minimum , dunno ! 
Maybe l really do need to use power one day though so what if it doesn't come out?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

whitehawk said:


> But although l liked training with friends, l've never liked real fights. l have a lot of trouble with hurting someone , strange compared to most guys l guess .


Being violent isn't exactly a good trait. I'd rather a peaceful life without having to face court every few months and they drag ON and ON and ON.



> The few fights l have had if l put someone down l felt bad for wks after but l never understand it really because someone really has to push me before l'd go them and even then if there was a peaceful way round it l'd try it so they'd deserved it. But l would non the less , still hold right back and would only have tapped them weather kick or whatever .


You hesitate, because you're a good non-violent person. Nothing wrong with that, and for the average person - its a good thing.



> Another funny twist is my older brothers done karate for 35 yrs and last l asked her was 4th dan , so he mustn't have any trouble hurting an opponent.
> 
> So is that common , not wanting to hurt someone even as last resort , for a guy to actually have trouble hitting someone even though he knows he easily could ?


Yes it's common.



> Not that l wanna go out and start fighting it's just something l've always wondered.
> Like l've never let full fly onto someone, l just can't bring myself to do it .
> l realized l basically just tapped them a few times until they were out of my face.
> Even this monster one time , l was actually having a pretty loud argument with his dad . This guy , the son , was a big man like 6'5 or something , very heavy. l could see him literally charging me like a bull from the corner of my eye.
> ...


Before I turned around 14-15 I was very much like you. I was full of hate due to childhood circumstances yet I couldn't bring myself to do any real damage in fights. For me, I feared the consequences of my actions. So most of the time it was short brawls and such, and lots of childish yelling. 

During my teens it was all drugs to keep a roof over my head and doing favors for my mates, nothing too serious. It wasn't until I was mobbed, hospitalised and robbed, that I started to realise I needed to do something. Having had a mate die from a stabbing during a street fight also traumatised me somewhat. I stopped giving a sh-t whether I lived or died nor the consequences of my actions.

At age 16 onwards I was an animal, and I found my new problem was restraining myself rather than hesitation. At age 18 I left that life behind but it haunted me up until marriage when some of my former mates expressed her hidden racism against myself, my wife and my unborn child which threatened to land me back in jail on charges of assault and even attempted murder as I systemically sought them out one by one though the attempted murder charges were dropped.

So in the end - hesitation is a good quality. You need to stay out of trouble. Grappling is superior to striking in that regard, you don't have to injure someone to prove a point, you can control the situation and even humiliate your attacker in self-defence without landing your ass in court. In the end, don't do anything you know you can't get away with.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Being violent isn't exactly a good trait. I'd rather a peaceful life without having to face court every few months and they drag ON and ON and ON.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ha ha , l love that line. l grew up in a pretty rough neighbour hood although yours sounds a lot worse . But it was training from way back when and to this day l live by that what l can get away with. It's a bad habit of mine :lol:

So you think it's a good thing ? l mean yeah you are right , violence is a stupid way to live so l guess but hell l always fear the wimpyness will cost me big time.
Like 'm not trained or experienced to skillfully adjust power but l know l've always also feared in the back of my mind going too hard , king hit or anything like that .
l've also always had a bad habit of going straight to the nuts to which l feel terrible about and hey , it's dirty pool really isn't it. My foots just done it though . Spose if your gonna be fighting it's about skill over time eh however that's acquired .


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

What is Grappling btw ?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

whitehawk said:


> So you think it's a good thing ? l mean yeah you are right , violence is a stupid way to live so l guess but hell l always fear the wimpyness will cost me big time.


Well, it did for me. But lack of remorse/fear of consequence cost me big time as well. To this day if I lost my business I'll be back to square one with very few employment prospects enough to support my own family. That's the consequence of my actions.

Hence my suggestion to skip the years of psychoness and embrace a much more balanced approach with self-defence -> Do what you have to do, but no more, no less



> Like 'm not trained or experienced to skillfully adjust power but l know l've always also feared in the back of my mind going too hard , king hit or anything like that .


Learn to grapple, and these techniques can be trained without risk of injury as long as safety precautions are there. Even in training you'll have your friendly sparring opponent in positions where they are at your mercy. Easily transferrable onto the street to control situations, or... humiliate the hell out of people lol. You just have to prove a point, but no need to hospitalise them and have them crying to court.



> l've also always had a bad habit of going straight to the nuts to which l feel terrible about and hey , it's dirty pool really isn't it. My foots just done it though . Spose if your gonna be fighting it's about skill over time eh however that's acquired .


Ha! It's a dirty world mate when it comes to the street, you can't expect people to fight one on one nor for them not to pull out weapons or aim for your balls when you leave it wide open. When I was younger and more naive I always thought it as dishonorable as well, didn't stop me from getting kicked while on the ground by multiple opponents till I passed out on the street. Can't exactly cry "Hey! This ain't fair!" lol


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

whitehawk said:


> What is Grappling btw ?


=/


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

whitehawk said:


> What is Grappling btw ?


Grabbing hold of them, as opposed to hitting them. (Although the two are not mutually exclusive.)


There are plusses and minuses to both. Grappling is useful, as most untrained people will end up doing that by instinct after a few blows have been thrown. It allows non-lethal methods of control. It also means you have to get close, and that makes you a bit vulnerable to blades. Also can sometimes be a problem with multiple assailants.

Striking can allow you keep a bit more distance, but it can be hard to restrain without hurting/injuring your opponent. It allows you get away more easily, as you're not entangled.

But is to have a combination of both at your disposal, to use as the situation dictates.


Still, first rule of self defence: Don't be there.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Well, it did for me. But lack of remorse/fear of consequence cost me big time as well. To this day if I lost my business I'll be back to square one with very few employment prospects enough to support my own family. That's the consequence of my actions.
> 
> Hence my suggestion to skip the years of psychoness and embrace a much more balanced approach with self-defence -> Do what you have to do, but no more, no less
> 
> ...


Yeah true enough , lot of a/hoes out there isn't there.

Dude , one good thing about building your own business is that you can do it again and easier next time if you have to. Not that it isn't a good thing though to have that healthy respect for it non the less.
But hey you've done well coming from that background , sounds pretty wild .


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Rags 

Quite frankly I'm surprised one has never heard of it 

@whitehawk



> Yeah true enough , lot of a/hoes out there isn't there.
> 
> Dude , one good thing about building your own business is that you can do it again and easier next time if you have to. Not that it isn't a good thing though to have that healthy respect for it non the less.
> But hey you've done well coming from that background , sounds pretty wild .


Not without excessive difficulty, I took over my current business which was already established. Starting a new one from scratch - is a much, much harder endeavour I'm afraid. I can only hope that day will never come. 

I was already paranoid as it was when my wife and I seperated with the threat of losing my business. Thankfully, she hasn't been a materialistic b-tch during our whole ordeal.

Thanks though mate


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> @Rags
> 
> Quite frankly I'm surprised one has never heard of it


Yeah, well, I take these sort of things at face value 

I assumed that it was just the umbrella term in context that wasn't familiar.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh well thanks for explaining regardless 

@Whitehawk

Learning how to grapple is also important as not only will you learn to grapple - you will learn how to defend yourself against grapples. E.G. when someone gets you in a headlock. I relied on pressure points for that myself; under their jawline and behind the ear.

I surrounded myself with fighters in my youth especially after 16 so I was exposed to a variety of different techniques. I'm not a big fella though, standing at 5'11 and at my peak at 90 kg, many opponents were larger hence I had to find the right techniques that suited me. You'll have to find the right style to suit your body type as well.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Rags said:


> Grabbing hold of them, as opposed to hitting them. (Although the two are not mutually exclusive.)
> 
> 
> There are plusses and minuses to both. Grappling is useful, as most untrained people will end up doing that by instinct after a few blows have been thrown. It allows non-lethal methods of control. It also means you have to get close, and that makes you a bit vulnerable to blades. Also can sometimes be a problem with multiple assailants.
> ...


Ahh right thanks Rags .
l could see what you mean about too close.


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