# Was I wrong?



## scot (Jun 4, 2013)

Wanted other peoples opinion on this. I was at a party with my wife over the weekend. I was tired; she was having a good time. I wanted to leave early around 12:30am, she didn't, so I stayed. So at 2:30am, I wanted to leave. I was so tired, we'd been there since 8pm, people were already leaving, some people were staying. It was her friends party, most people I didn't know, and she wanted me to leave and have someone drive her home. I thought she was being unreasonable as I had come to this party with her and stayed to 2:30am; we came together we should leave together, especially as it wasn't if I was dragging her away super early. Am I wrong in wanting my wife to come home with me or should I have agreed to her staying and letting whoever drive her home?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

scot said:


> Wanted other peoples opinion on this. I was at a party with my wife over the weekend. I was tired; she was having a good time. I wanted to leave early around 12:30am, she didn't, so I stayed. So at 2:30am, I wanted to leave. I was so tired, we'd been there since 8pm, people were already leaving, some people were staying. It was her friends party, most people I didn't know, and she wanted me to leave and have someone drive her home. I thought she was being unreasonable as I had come to this party with her and stayed to 2:30am; we came together we should leave together, especially as it wasn't if I was dragging her away super early. Am I wrong in wanting my wife to come home with me or should I have agreed to her staying and letting whoever drive her home?


You don't want " someone" drive her home, because he might " drive" her home.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You're not wrong. If you arrived at 8pm and wanted to leave at 9:30pm, then I can understand her wanting to stay. What the hell is your wife wanting to do at 3am?

Your setup is a familiar one on the Coping With Infidelity board. Husband gets tired, leaves the party early, goes home and goes to sleep. His wife shuffles in the next morning missing her underwear. Don't be that guy. Make your wife leave with you.

It's obnoxious to be the last one at a party, anyway.


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

No I do not think you were being unreasonable. I think she should have been more understanding, but in cases like this I like to think of something. Think to yourself if the shoe was on the other foot. What if it was your friends party and your wife was the one wanting to leave and you did not, then how would you feel?


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## scot (Jun 4, 2013)

It's good to have responses to something that I thought was a no brainer! I really don't believe she would have done anything wrong when I was gone, she's just that person that wants to be anywhere to the very last minute.... it's like she's worried that she'll miss out on something by leaving even a minute early. She did bring out the old 'you must not trust me' because I wanted her to leave with me.

In regards to if it was her asking me to leave early, I wouldn't have had a problem with that. I am the more understanding and considerate out of the two. It's just a fact. I love my wife very much, but sometimes when things to go 100% exactly her way....I'm the bad guy. In this situation, my view is, I came to your friends party we got there pretty much when it started and 6 and half hours later, I don't think it's unreasonable to have you leave with me.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

scot said:


> It's good to have responses to something that I thought was a no brainer! I really don't believe she would have done anything wrong when I was gone, she's just that person that wants to be anywhere to the very last minute.... it's like she's worried that she'll miss out on something by leaving even a minute early. She did bring out the old 'you must not trust me' because I wanted her to leave with me.
> 
> In regards to if it was her asking me to leave early, I wouldn't have had a problem with that. I am the more understanding and considerate out of the two. It's just a fact. I love my wife very much, but sometimes when things to go 100% exactly her way....I'm the bad guy. In this situation, my view is, I came to your friends party we got there pretty much when it started and 6 and half hours later, I don't think it's unreasonable to have you leave with me.


It's also responsible to make sure she makes it home safely. She came with you, she can leave with you - besides if she got drunk or something you can monitor.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

scot said:


> It's good to have responses to something that I thought was a no brainer! I really don't believe she would have done anything wrong when I was gone, she's just that person that wants to be anywhere to the very last minute.... it's like she's worried that she'll miss out on something by leaving even a minute early. She did bring out the old 'you must not trust me' because I wanted her to leave with me.
> 
> In regards to if it was her asking me to leave early, I wouldn't have had a problem with that. I am the more understanding and considerate out of the two. It's just a fact. I love my wife very much, but sometimes when things to go 100% exactly her way....I'm the bad guy. In this situation, my view is, I came to your friends party we got there pretty much when it started and 6 and half hours later, I don't think it's unreasonable to have you leave with me.


It might not be unreasonable but it IS unattractive. Any clinginess or actions that cause a perception of jealousy or mistrust or paranoia (whether that perception is justified or not) are unattractive. You obviously can't drag her out with you like a caveman haha. But you could maybe have seduced her away. Just don't get into fights you can't win. That alone is beta. If you fail many more tests like this, she will eventually leave you. If it appears that your life revolves around her, she'll go eww. Cooperate, communicate, but don't let your life revolve around her or her schedule.


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## scot (Jun 4, 2013)

GetTough said:


> It might not be unreasonable but it IS unattractive. Any clinginess or actions that cause a perception of jealousy or mistrust or paranoia (whether that perception is justified or not) are unattractive. You obviously can't drag her out with you like a caveman haha. But you could maybe have seduced her away. Just don't get into fights you can't win. That alone is beta. If you fail many more tests like this, she will eventually leave you. If it appears that your life revolves around her, she'll go eww. Cooperate, communicate, but don't let your life revolve around her or her schedule.


I can see clinginess and jealousy as being unattractive, but that is not what happened here. If not wanting to leave my wife at a house 15 miles from where we live at 2:30am after she's had a few drinks makes me clingy, jealous and paranoid, oh well. I'm not about tests and playing games. I'm about doing the right thing. I think the right thing is to be there for each other, to take care and respect each other. My life doesn't revolve around my wife. My wife is actually out with some friends just now. And I have no problem with that.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

scot said:


> I really don't believe she would have done anything wrong when I was gone, ...


Nobody ever thinks that their wife will be one of the 55% of wives who cheat on their husbands. But 55% of the wives out there cheat on their husbands. Statistically, your wife is more likely to cheat on you than to remain faithful.

And 3am while she's drunk without you around is exactly the time she would make a poor decision. Don't be the guy who leaves his wife in a situation where she can make a poor decision like that. If the two of you were alone at a bar after midnight, would you leave her drunk with the car keys and hope that she chose to call a taxi rather than drive? I wouldn't.



> She did bring out the old 'you must not trust me' because I wanted her to leave with me.


It's funny how often people get indignant when they're trying to do something sketchy. "Oh, you don't want me visiting my ex-boyfriend at 3am? Don't you trust me? You're so controlling!"



> I love my wife very much, but sometimes when things to go 100% exactly her way....I'm the bad guy. In this situation, my view is, I came to your friends party we got there pretty much when it started and 6 and half hours later, I don't think it's unreasonable to have you leave with me.


Well, part of your responsibility, as her husband, is to teach her that the world doesn't revolve around her. Ideally, her parents would have done that. But, apparently they didn't. So the job falls to you.

So far, you've done all right. You don't leave her behind so that she can make bad decisions. But stop doubting yourself. You know damn well that married women shouldn't be out drunk without their husbands at 3am. Don't apologize for having that policy. Bars have a closing time. You can have a closing time, too. 2:30am is not too early to leave a party. Period. If anything, it's too late.

Stand firm. Either she parties responsibly, or she doesn't party.

Good luck.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You were not being unreasonable, or clingy.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

GetTough said:


> It might not be unreasonable but it IS unattractive. Any clinginess or actions that cause a perception of jealousy or mistrust or paranoia (whether that perception is
> justified or not) are unattractive.


I agree that being clingy is unattractive. But wanting your wife to leave a party when it is obviously over is not being clingy. It's just helping your wife avoid making an ass out of herself.



> If you fail many more tests like this, she will eventually leave you.


I think leaving one's wife, drunk, at a party without her husband is the failure. That's the failure that will either lead to her cheating, or lead to her having a toxic social life completely apart from her husband.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

scot said:


> My wife is actually out with some friends just now. And I have no problem with that.


Your wife is out at midnight on a Monday night without you? You should have a problem with that.

Who are these friends that your wife wants to have sleepovers with? Is this a mixed group as well?

In any case, you need to go to Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. and man up.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

3Xnocharm said:


> You were not being unreasonable, or clingy.


But what would SHE have said? Our opinion doesn't make much difference. You won't easily convince her she's being unreasonable. She doesn't see it that way. All she feels is an argument, an association of bad feelings, a chip away at the love bond. All the rationalization in the world and all the RIGHTness of the OPs argument makes not a hill of beans difference if shes feeling controlled or hassled, which by the way is exactly how people feel when they are dealing with someone clingy.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It might as well be a duck. If you give her the same feelings as a clingy person would, Does it matter whether we label it clingy or not. Same outcome either way.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

If my wife and I go to a party together and one of us wants to go home, but the other really wants to stay...


The one who wants to go home goes home, and the one who wants to stay stays.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

jaquen said:


> If my wife and I go to a party together and one of us wants to go home, but the other really wants to stay...
> 
> 
> The one who wants to go home goes home, and the one who wants to stay stays.


lol. And therein is the beauty of simplicity. But being married changes all that right, because people start to feel like they OWN each other. And of course, that's not in any way clingy


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

GetTough said:


> But what would SHE have said? Our opinion doesn't make much difference. You won't easily convince her she's being unreasonable. She doesn't see it that way.


Yes, she may not be able to recognize reason. However, that doesn't mean that the OP should subscribe to her frame. He knows he is reasonable, and he must maintain his frame.

If his wife believes that him wanting her to come home with him, rather than have a mixed sex, drunken slumber party with people he doesn't know and doesn't trust, then she is in the wrong.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

jaquen said:


> If my wife and I go to a party together and one of us wants to go home, but the other really wants to stay...
> 
> 
> The one who wants to go home goes home, and the one who wants to stay stays.


I'm with you on this... It might be different if it was a party with LOTS of people we didn't both know, but typically any function we attended where one of us would want to stay late would be with mostly long-time common friends and family. Maybe it depended on the context...

I usually DID resent having to get up the next day and drag her sorry hung-over ass home, where she'd proceed to lay around all day... But that's perhaps another story.

C


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

GetTough said:


> lol. And therein is the beauty of simplicity. But being married changes all that right, because people start to feel like they OWN each other. And of course, that's not in any way clingy


Being married does, indeed, change things. If I am dating a girl who wants to have a drunken sleepover with one or more men, then she is free to do as she wishes. She has taken no vows of fidelity to me. I probably wouldn't continue to date her, but it won't be much skin off my nose. No need for large legal bills.

However, once you're married, those pesky vows come into play. And vows are always present. Married couples aren't, or at least shouldn't be, free to ignore their vows until the very last second when penetration is imminent, and then suddenly remain faithful to their spouses. Affairs start with bad decisions. Affairs start with inappropriate boundaries.

Now, some on these boards claim that they have affair-proof marriages. That they, and their spouses, are so morally incorruptible that blind trust is a reasonable strategy in their marriages. Maybe they're correct. But I bet that most people who believe they are morally incorruptible are wrong. I bet that most of those people could be enticed into cheating.

So, just on the off-chance that your spouse is one of the majority who will cheat, or one of the almost 100% who could be enticed to cheat, under the correct circumstances, I think boundaries are the appropriate strategy. And I think that to suggest that a drunken, sleepover with other men is a time to employ blind trust, rather than boundaries, is just plain stupid.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

PBear said:


> I'm with you on this... It might be different if it was a party with LOTS of people we didn't both know, ...


Scot posted that he didn't know most of the people. It was his wife's friend's party.


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

That is why I said that he needed to look at it from a different prospective to begin with in all fairness.


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## kilgore (Dec 14, 2012)

belleoftheball said:


> That is why I said that he needed to look at it from a different prospective to begin with in all fairness.


seems like a little petty on both ends, unless i am missing something


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## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

Maybe the OP already suspects something and his spider sense told him that leaving his W alone at that party is a bad idea.


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## Nsweet (Mar 3, 2012)

Think about it another way...... If you were at a party not with your wife but with your young daughter, would you leave her there alone? Would you let a stranger drive your daughter home and just trust that nothing bad would happen? 

NO, so why should you trust that your wife would not get approached by every swinging c*ck left to pick up the scraps at 3AM. This not being clingy, you were just protecting your wife and your investment in this marriage from some drunken one night stand. 

If I were you I would seriously have a conversation with her and tell her "Married people *do not * have sleepovers after parties. And then leave her with that and let it sink in. Don't stick around to hear how she's going to twist this into being the victim, make you sound controlling for holding reasonable boundaries, or tell you how she's going to make the rules you have to follow... Huh-uh, none of that. She can grow up and act married with you or she can be single without you, but she's not going to remain married to you very long with that kind of attitude.


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## bailingout (Jan 25, 2013)

As someone whose been in this exact situation numerous times, I am the one who wants to go, he wants to stay--here is how I see it.

I think she was being selfish and inconsiderate. As a married couple, I expect both of us to consider our actions and how they effect the other person. In this case, you were considerate to her having a good time by staying until 2:30 when you were ready to go at 12:30. Was she considerate of you? No. 

I would suggest you have a nice long talk about your expectations in situations like this, maybe even before you go out next time to avoid the argument. Take it from me, not doing so can lead to a ton of resentment.

Good luck.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I really don't think it's a big deal if she stays to hang out with her friends, unless you know them to be toxic, but then I wouldn't do it myself. I'd leave with my hb; this has happened to us and if one wants leave we both go. I don't think alcohol makes people do anything they don't want to do but people know they can use it as an excuse-"But I was drunk, not my fault!". 2:30 is pretty late though, I can't stay up that late anymore. I do think the laying around hungover the next day is a problem though, that dumps everything on your spouse so you can party. Not fair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Seems to me that leaving your wife at a party that late and she obviously had too much to drink is like leaving her out on the block for a pickup. And neither me nor my H would consider going somewhere together and then leaving without the other unless one of us was just putting in a appearance and had somewhere else to go.


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't think alcohol makes people do anything they don't want to do but people know they can use it as an excuse-"But I was drunk, not my fault!".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Marriage is a compromise. You compromised by staying later; she needs to compromise by leaving with you even if she'd like to stay a bit longer. It's a matter of consideration. You were a good sport (assuming) and made small talk with a bunch of her friends; now it's time for her to return the favor and realize you are exhausted. I wouldn't want my husband driving 15 miles tired. I would feel it was my obligation to talk on the way home to keep him alert so he didn't fall asleep at the wheel.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> .... If I am dating a girl who wants to have a drunken sleepover with one or more men, then she is free to do as she wishes. She has taken no vows of fidelity to me.* I probably wouldn't continue to date her*, but it won't be much skin off my nose.....


probably?


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

I have been married for 27 years and neither my wife or I leave a party or get together with out each other. I would never leave her out alone late at night period. We are team. We are married. That is what we signed up for on our wedding day. That doesn't mean we don't have our own interests. Its just that we always put each other and our relationship first. Friends are always second. Maybe that is why we are still together. 

In the OPs situation I would have to ask why you both weren't looking forward to getting home and having a little intimate time. 

For as long as we have been married we do one of two things after a night out...we either go to bed and have great sex or go straight to bed and sleep. When we had young kids at home the late night meant we had the chance to fool around because the kids were in bed and later because they were all out of the house. 

So to me the relationship may have other issues you need to work on that your wife would prefer the company of her friends over you. You may want to look into that. Oh don't let her play the "Don't you trust me BS". That is the same as I want to be free of you and you should let me do whatever I want. Which is the first step to her disrespecting you and your marriage. I rarely ever say no to my wife but when I do she knows I am serious and I have a good reason. She then respects my decision. She may not always like it at the time but she shows me respect as her husband and mate that I I have our best interests at heart when I do. 

Good Luck...You were not wrong!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

tulsy said:


> probably?


 Before I was married, I did have a few relationships that weren't exclusive. So, if the relationship were one of those, late night shenanigans with other men wouldn't necessarily put me off the girl. However, none of my relationships were so open that I would start the evening with the girl and end up alone. I wouldn't tolerate that. And I never considered any of the girls I dated non-exclusively to be wife material.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I think your wife was disrespectful to you. 2:30am is late enough for a party.

Nothing good happens away from home after the bars close


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Seems to me that leaving your wife at a party that late and she obviously had too much to drink is like leaving her out on the block for a pickup. And neither me nor my H would consider going somewhere together and then leaving without the other unless one of us was just putting in a appearance and had somewhere else to go.


Agree,

You went together, you leave together. The only way one leaves early, is if their is an emergency - like work or kids, and even then they may leave together. But leaving her behind after partying and drinking does not look responsible.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

PBear said:


> Maybe it depended on the context...


Yes it absolutely does depend on context. 

There have been a lot of extra nonsense added to the OP's plight. It went from him being upset that his wife wanted to stay at friend's party longer than he was willing to duke it out to people now implying that she's a drunken wh*re two steps away from sucking off half the party. Some poster even went as far as to say that his wife prefers the company of others over her husband just because she didn't' want to leave one little party. Give me a break.

Of course if your spouse is too wasted to make sound decisions you should make provisions. But that is a very specific set of circumstances and doesn't have much to do with the dilemma laid out in the OP.

This comes down to boundaries. Every marriage has a different set. All that matters is if the two people within it are comfortable. I'm not my wife's father, and she ain't my momma. This kind of situation is a no-brainer for us. If one of us wants to stay, they stay. As long as the staying party is of sound mind, all is good.

Also it's really none of anybody's business to tell grown folks how late they need to be out. Just because 2:30am might be too late in your world doesn't mean other adults need to adhere to your standards. Plenty of people are night rollers and are out and about way past 2:30, especially in major cities like NYC, where I live. It's not uncommon for a house party to stretch well into the night and nobody think twice about it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

jaquen said:


> There have been a lot of extra nonsense added to the OP's plight. It went from him being upset that his wife wanted to stay at friend's party longer than he was willing to duke it out to people now implying that she's a drunken wh*re two steps away from sucking off half the party.


We're not implying that she's a drunken wh0re. I'm simply saying that a wife drinking and spending the night with other men is disrespectful of her husband. The risk of infidelity, for women who are morally fallible, goes up when they are drinking, they are around other men who are drinking, and their husbands aren't around. That is a tautology.



> This comes down to boundaries.


Exactly. And boundaries are most useful when they are practical. Not allowing one's wife to have a co-ed slumber party with alcohol is a much more useful boundary, in terms of preventing infidelity, than telling her that you have blind trust in her and merely ask that she stop short of penetration.



> All that matters is if the two people within it are comfortable.


I disagree. There are millions of people in this country who don't know that their spouses are in affairs. Those people have blind trust in their spouses and they are completely comfortable. Sadly, it's often after a betrayal that people learn that blind trust isn't an effective strategy for preventing infidelity.



> I'm not my wife's father, and she ain't my momma. This kind of situation is a no-brainer for us. If one of us wants to stay, they stay. As long as the staying party is of sound mind, all is good.


I agree, to a point. I'm not my wife's father. But I'm not just her roommate, either. My wife can't just leave a rubber band on the door if she wants her privacy. She and I have a bond. We do things together. If we go to a party together, we leave together.



> Also it's really none of anybody's business to tell grown folks how late they need to be out. Just because 2:30am might be too late in your world doesn't mean other adults need to adhere to your standards. Plenty of people are night rollers and are out and about way past 2:30, especially in major cities like NYC, where I live. It's not uncommon for a house party to stretch well into the night and nobody think twice about it.


This isn't an issue. I'm not telling the OP that 2:30am is too late because of my preferences. I'm telling him it's too late because HE thought is was too late. The scenario was that they had been there for 6.5 hours, most of the guests were leaving, and he was asking to leave. Any one of those is a sufficient condition to leave a party. When all three of them occur, it just becomes obnoxious to stay.


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

Well said :iagree:


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Interesting how far out of their way people go to try making the husband look like a jerk.

The party is behind them now, but the behaviour is not. So the potential for future trouble is still there. I would be settling this permanently.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Interesting how far out of their way people go to try making the husband look like a jerk.
> 
> The party is behind them now, but the behaviour is not. So the potential for future trouble is still there. I would be settling this permanently.


I've been through it. Alot of it is "automatic", in that their minds eye knows it needs to make it look a certain way, and all the manipulations, schemes etc to let the husband "look like a jerk", just happen.

I'm not so sure it was ever productive for me to remain in any situation which distorted me so much intentionally, unless I was being paid for it... And even then, I would leave for a situation which doesn't have to distort me as much that pays similar.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

No actually THIS is the OP:

*"Wanted other peoples opinion on this. I was at a party with my wife over the weekend. I was tired; she was having a good time. I wanted to leave early around 12:30am, she didn't, so I stayed. So at 2:30am, I wanted to leave. I was so tired, we'd been there since 8pm, people were already leaving, some people were staying. It was her friends party, most people I didn't know, and she wanted me to leave and have someone drive her home. I thought she was being unreasonable as I had come to this party with her and stayed to 2:30am; we came together we should leave together, especially as it wasn't if I was dragging her away super early. Am I wrong in wanting my wife to come home with me or should I have agreed to her staying and letting whoever drive her home?"*


There is no mention of his wife being intoxicated.
There is no mention of his wife sleeping over. 
There was no mention of the sex of the potential ride home. 
There was no mention of the relationship she has with the potential ride home.
There is no mention of a history of infidelity. He actually says later on that "I really don't believe she would have done anything wrong when I was gone".
There is no mention of his wife being the "last loser" at the party.
There is no mention of the sexes of the people still at the party and whether those people were sleeping over.

The original dilemma is highlighted and underlined. This was NOT a post about some man who was afraid his lush, drunk ass wife would stay over at a friend's house and spread her legs for other men who were apparently staying over, in some wild orgy. Even later on he never said she was drunk. He said she'd had "a few drinks". No mention of inhibition whatsoever.

All that insinuation came from you people who just completely jumped the gun.

This man's ORIGINAL dilemma, before you guys used the OP to push your various agendas, was whether or not it was wrong for him to expect his wife to leave a party with HER friends to go home with him because he didn't want to stay longer.

That's it. The big crime the woman in the OP committed was apparently having too much fun at a party with her friends and wanting to stick around to continue having a good time. The rest of you insinuated the drunk, the mixed sex/, the sleepover, and the "no wife should be out that late" elements.

Some of you people really need to stop projecting your issues onto situations for which they simply do not fit. Everybody is not a weak, roving sl*t ready to put out with every single man or woman within reach. Every situation presented on TAM does not need to be met with this kind of hyperbolic paranoia!


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

OP ... you were correct in what you did. You compromised and stayed a couple of hours longer than you actually wanted to. Staying until 2:30 am should have been enough for your wife.

Your wife was being selfish.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

All marriages are different.
IF this is what you want in your marriage, you are not wrong. You get to decide how it works in your marriage. Is a "rule" that you two stick together / arrive together / leave together reasonable? Yes it is. Learning each other's rules is the process of marriage.

But, you do have to stand up for youself in a manly way...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

jaquen said:


> [*]There is no mention of his wife being intoxicated.


In post #8 he reported that his wife had been drinking.



> [*]There is no mention of his wife sleeping over.


I was simply using the term sleepover as a description for what his wife wanted to do. We can assume that she wanted to stay significantly longer. If she were willing to leave at 3am, she probably would have just left at 2:30 with her husband. So what term would you not object to using for a party where a subset of guests stay over until the next morning (whether that means 4am, or 6am, or later) where sleeping may, or may not occur? As I recall, some of my sleepovers as a kid didn't involve any sleeping, either. And some of them involved trouble.



> [*]There was no mention of the sex of the potential ride home.


In my experience, it's usually the men who take care of the white knight driving home duties for the damsels in distress who have been drinking. But, I didn't necessarily assume that it had to be a man to take her home. There were probably men at the party.



> [*]There was no mention of the relationship she has with the potential ride home.


I don't think it's necessary for a prior relationship to exist in order for something to be inappropriate.



> [*]There is no mention of a history of infidelity. He actually says later on that "I really don't believe she would have done anything wrong when I was gone".


True. However, we know two things. First, most spouses are taken by surprise when they discover infidelity. Second, every marriage begins without any history of infidelity. Yet, most marriages will experience infidelity at some point. Curious.



> [*]There is no mention of his wife being the "last loser" at the party.


Correct. She was simply one of the last at the party. He said the party was breaking up at 2:30, yet a few people were staying. If the OP had arrived at midnight, I think it would be more appropriate for him and his wife to stay. Since he arrived at 8pm, he wanted to go, and most of the guests were leaving, I think the prudent thing to do was to go home.



> [*]There is no mention of the sexes of the people still at the party and whether those people were sleeping over.


True. But the party was mixed sex. The OP and his wife were there. I'm assuming he wasn't the only man. And, if only women were remaining at the party, he probably would have mentioned that when some of us raised the issue of a risk of infidelity. Why are you assuming that only women were staying over?



> This was NOT a post about some man who was afraid his lush, drunk ass wife would stay over at a friend's house and spread her legs for other men who were apparently staying over, in some wild orgy.


Right. The OP wanted his wife to come home with him. Why do you think that is? I don't even know if he knows. Personally, I think it's because he recognized the situation, consciously, as inappropriate. Subconsciously, he thought it was inappropriate because of the risk of infidelity.



> All that insinuation came from you people who just completely jumped the gun.


Those of us who can recognize risk sometimes feel a duty to speak up. If I see a man walking toward a cliff, I'm not going to wait until he's dived over the edge before I warn him to stop.

There's a real risk of infidelity in every marriage. That risk goes up the more the spouses engage in inappropriate behavior. Staying out all night drinking with other men qualifies to all reasonable people as inappropriate.



> Some of you people really need to stop projecting your issues onto situations for which they simply do not fit. Everybody is not a weak, roving sl*t ready to put out with every single man or woman within reach. Every situation presented on TAM does not need to be met with this kind of hyperbolic paranoia!


That's true. That's why, if the OP had presented a scenario of he and his wife going to a church bake sale at noon, and he wanted to leave at one, and no alcohol was involved, and the preacher and his wife offered to drive his wife home at three, I would have given entirely different advice. I'm not so paranoid that I think that's a threesome just waiting to happen.

However, you need to recognize that not all souls on TAM, or anywhere else, for that matter, are as morally infallible as you and your wife. You have stated that you and your wife are both completely above any possible temptation to sin. So I'll take you at your word. I know Jesus is supposed to come back sometime. However, most of us are lowly sinners who are prone to be tempted. And the OP's scenario was one rife with temptation.

Perhaps you can be content to advise people to ignore all warning signs until after infidelity has been committed and a marriage has been permanently damaged. I can't be. If I can give some advice to strengthen a marriage and head off possible disaster, I feel a moral obligation to do it.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

SadSamIAm said:


> OP ... you were correct in what you did. You compromised and stayed a couple of hours longer than you actually wanted to. Staying until 2:30 am should have been enough for your wife.
> 
> Your wife was being selfish.


Yep.

You already compromised for her by staying later than you wanted. Where did she compromise? Seems like it's her way or the highway.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

You guys got way too many options in your relationships. If we want to be at parties alone we go alone. If we go together we leave together. No matter who wants to do the going or the staying.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> You were not being unreasonable, or clingy.


I agree with this.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Laila619 said:


> Yep.
> 
> You already compromised for her by staying later than you wanted. Where did she compromise? Seems like it's her way or the highway.


This is a good point. How often do you compromise vs. her compromising?


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't think it was unreasonable for you to want her to leave with you. Its not like you wouldn't stay more than an hour.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Unless there has been a Issue with who was going to drive someone home or another pressing reason I don't really see why ask or insist my husband leave when I want too, my husbands the same.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

These are the types of situations where delivery makes the difference. When my H leans over and whispers in my ear, "I really wanna take you home right NOW!" and runs his hand down my back suggestively, I'm practically running to the car.

I also try to be respectful that he's the one driving and exhausted.


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

On the contrary, I'd be pretty disgusted with my husband if he AGREED to such an arrangement. My husband would never leave me at a party, to my own devices, at 2:30am. And I'm glad for that. If that makes him controlling, then I love a controlling man. 

In the future, it may be a good idea to consider a time for y'all to get together (for example, let's meet for a quick chat at 1am) and chat and confer about whether either of you is ready to go home.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

What could have gone wrong?


The husband goes home at 2:30 leaving his wife to catch a ride later.
By 3:30 or so the party has dwindled down to an intimate group of a half dozen or so people.
The host suggests that since it's so late, and there are so few people left, that the remaining guests should just stay over.
Someone suggests that since everyone is staying over they should do a shot of the good Patron tequila.
An hour (now 4:30 AM) and several shots later everyone's judgement is impaired due to the tequila and lack of sleep.

Maybe it would have gone that way, and maybe it wouldn't. But, that's as likely a scenario as any.

And, that's not the type of situation a married person should be putting themselves in without their spouse at their side. It could very easily turn out to be a "OMG, what have I done" morning.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Always interesting to see in these posts where people try to play the non controlling or non-controlled spouse role. I think a lot are looking way too deep into this. My opinion is if we come together, we leave together. This situation has never come up in my 14 years of marriage and the years of dating before then. Do you people enjoy your spouse's company? I don't see the point in bring my wife out with me if my intention is to hang out with my friends. I'm thinking of all the dinner parties and cookouts we've had and the only couple we've had leave separately actually came separately because they were going through a divorce that no one knew about at the time. This is actually pretty strange knowing that this is a common thing. I wouldn't have known from my circle of married friends.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Kobo said:


> Always interesting to see in these posts where people try to play the non controlling or non-controlled spouse role. I think a lot are looking way too deep into this. My opinion is if we come together, we leave together. This situation has never come up in my 14 years of marriage and the years of dating before then. Do you people enjoy your spouse's company? I don't see the point in bring my wife out with me if my intention is to hang out with my friends. I'm thinking of all the dinner parties and cookouts we've had and the only couple we've had leave separately actually came separately because they were going through a divorce that no one knew about at the time. This is actually pretty strange knowing that this is a common thing. I wouldn't have known from my circle of married friends.


I agree, and this is my experience as well. I don't see it in terms of "controlling" or "non-controlling", because it's been a given that of course we were going to leave together.

I can't imagine leaving my wife at a party and going to bed alone. It doesn't even compute. She apparently feels the same way about leaving me at a party.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Kobo said:


> Always interesting to see in these posts where people try to play the non controlling or non-controlled spouse role. I think a lot are looking way too deep into this. My opinion is if we come together, we leave together. This situation has never come up in my 14 years of marriage and the years of dating before then. Do you people enjoy your spouse's company? I don't see the point in bring my wife out with me if my intention is to hang out with my friends. I'm thinking of all the dinner parties and cookouts we've had and the only couple we've had leave separately actually came separately because they were going through a divorce that no one knew about at the time. This is actually pretty strange knowing that this is a common thing. I wouldn't have known from my circle of married friends.


And yet people have other realities.

My wife and I have almost no mutual friends. So we often do not go to parties or dinners together, and when we do it's almost always a get together with either her circle or my circle. This is the reality for couples who might be at an event where one spouse has far more incentive to stay than another. 

My best friend, for example, co-throws an annual Christmas party. Sometimes my wife chooses to attend, sometimes she does not. When she does chose to attend she knows almost nobody. I can be a very social person, so I'm splitting my time between being with my wife and working my way around the room. There is a high likelihood that after a couple hours my wife will just say "Babe I'm ready to go". However she does not expect me to leave the party simply because she's ready to go home. She'll ask "Are you ready to leave", to which she's prepared for a "Yes I'm ready" or a "Nope not yet". If she's ready, and I'm not, and she's of sound mind (she almost never gets intoxicated) she'll kiss me goodbye, hop on the subway, and we'll see each other whenever I get home.

It really is that easy for some couples. While I understand, and respect, that some couples stand by an arrive together-leave together pact, that's not the case for all. There isn't always drama involved in these kinds of situations.

And that seems to be the OP's dilemma. His wife was at a party with her friends, that ran late, but was still going. She didn't understand why she should cut the good times because her husband, who wasn't having as good a time as she, was ready to split. I wouldn't understand it either, so I empathize with this man's wife. 

Perhaps her staying had absolutely nothing to do with wanting to betray her husband, or disrespect him. Perhaps it was as simple as "I'm still having a really good time and I'll see you when I get home". As long as the husband was assured that she was of sound mind and had a solid, safe way to get home, maybe she doesn't see the big deal. 

I get completely why he wanted to leave together and I don't see him as "controlling" at all. But I also get why she didn't see the need for a mutual departure.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I get your perspective, Jaquen and agree to a point. I'd be OK with this arrangement as well. (Although I find it odd that you haven't amalgamated friends yet.)

But this is a couple who lives 15 miles away. I surmise they drove there in one car. If he goes home alone, he risks someone driving his wife home who says they are fine to drive but are they really? Is his wife in a condition to determine that? We are assuming there is drinking although I don't' recall that being clarified.

I've been to parties where I know the hostess and hung around helping clean up, having that last drink, chatting with her and nothing bad happens. On the other hand if I had a partner and we'd already been at the party for 6.5 hours (plus we know he said at 12:30 he wanted to leave after 4.5 hours and yet stayed another 2) it's time to go. 

Yes, there are late partiers but it sounds like a suburban get together, not a 'city that never sleeps' gathering. We don't know their ages but most people I know are done for at that hour. I wouldn't want my exhausted partner to drive for 20 minutes, risking falling asleep at the wheel. 

I think the major factors are a) that they did already spend quite a long time there - it's not like he wanted to leave after one hour b) he compromised by staying 2 extra hours; where has she compromised? and c) the tiring, long, late drive home for him.

I agree there is a lot of projecting regarding cheating. Take that away and it's just about consideration and compromise.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

jaquen said:


> While I understand, and respect, that some couples stand by an arrive together-leave together pact, that's not the case for all. There isn't always drama involved in these kinds of situations.


No. But the OP's scenario was unique. If the party had still been going strong, instead of breaking up, he might have felt better about leaving his wife there. If she hadn't been drinking, he might have felt better about leaving his wife there. If it hadn't already been the early morning hours, he might have felt better about leaving his wife there. As it was, the situation was perfect for something bad to happen.



> Perhaps her staying had absolutely nothing to do with wanting to betray her husband, or disrespect him. Perhaps it was as simple as "I'm still having a really good time and I'll see you when I get home". As long as the husband was assured that she was of sound mind and had a solid, safe way to get home, maybe she doesn't see the big deal.


I think you're probably right. I would be very surprised if his wife brought him to a party where she intended on betraying him and relied on him leaving with the rest of the guests and agreeing to leave her behind in order to pull off her plan of adultery. Adultery doesn't usually happen that way. It just happens. It sneaks up on people. It starts small, often late at night, with alcohol, without one's spouse around, and builds.

The OP obviously isn't controlling. Two nights later, his wife was out at midnight with friends. I think he could probably stand to be more controlling.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

jaquen said:


> And yet people have other realities.
> 
> My wife and I have almost no mutual friends. So we often do not go to parties or dinners together, and when we do it's almost always a get together with either her circle or my circle. This is the reality for couples who might be at an event where one spouse has far more incentive to stay than another.
> 
> ...


If my intention is to have a good time with people other than my wife I wouldn't bring my wife. I'm not saying this is right or wrong just that this seems like an unnecessary discussion to have. If I have an event and know she isn't going to enjoy herself I'll suggest she sit it out, go there myself, do my thing and come home. The bouncing back and forth between your wife and the party doesn't sound like either of you are getting any quality time out of it with each other or your friends. At best its an inefficient use of your time and probably causing you to want to stay longer. You'd probably be ready to leave a little earlier if you have thoughts in your head about your wife at home reading a book and taking a bath, getting into something a little playful. At least it would for me. I think the situation you describe just leaves a lot of openings for other issues to come up and I'm not talking about infidelity or anything like that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

scot said:


> She did bring out the old 'you must not trust me' because I wanted her to leave with me.


Does she say this often? Have you accused her of being trustworthy in the past? 

You said she gets irritated when things do not go her way, and that to me is a bigger issue.

No, you were not wrong for wanting to leave with her but she chose to stay and you accepted it and it is in the past now.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Scot we need more info. Reason is that context matters and you have us all here speculating things we don't know details about.

- how many people at the party?
- were they variations of men, women, singles, marrieds?
- were any of her ex's there.
- was the good time she was having with her girl friends, guy friends, or both.
- did you drink? was she drunk or tipsy or sober?
- did she notice or care if you were having a decent time?
- did she say who was going to give her a ride home or just somebody?
- was she comng across as single to anyone who didn't know. was she trying to pull you into her fun or letting you lurk in the shadows?
- are these friends the toxic type? Single or unhappy marrieds.
- and did she leave with you at 2:30 or stay?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> (Although I find it odd that you haven't amalgamated friends yet.)


There is no need. We've been in each other's lives for a long time, and we've never had too many mutual friends. We gravitate toward totally different people. There is no need to amalgamate our social lives. If it happens, great, if it doesn't, great.



EnjoliWoman said:


> But this is a couple who lives 15 miles away. I surmise they drove there in one car. If he goes home alone, he risks someone driving his wife home who says they are fine to drive but are they really? Is his wife in a condition to determine that? We are assuming there is drinking although I don't' recall that being clarified.
> 
> I've been to parties where I know the hostess and hung around helping clean up, having that last drink, chatting with her and nothing bad happens. On the other hand if I had a partner and we'd already been at the party for 6.5 hours (plus we know he said at 12:30 he wanted to leave after 4.5 hours and yet stayed another 2) it's time to go.
> 
> ...


All valid, perfectly reasonable concerns. Where I'm coming from, as someone who is more likely to be in his wife's place, is to try and add her possible perspective.

I wouldn't want my wife defining when I'm "done". It's really not her place to tell me that it's too late. To me that feels like a parent. In this particular case 2:30am was the cut off for the husband, but clearly the wife didn't agree. If I were her I'd be wondering why my spouse believes that their cut off time equals my cut off time. Perhaps the woman is just a later roller. Some people just are. And in this case the party was not over as the OP said that some were leaving, but others were staying. So she wasn't even alone in the feeling that the party was still going on.

Not enough details were given by the OP in regards to how she was getting home. So we are all left to just wonder about the specifics. I would never leave my wife at a party unless I knew for certain that she had a solid way home. If there is any question whatsoever about her getting home safely, I'm going to want her to come home with me, OR I will just stick around long enough to take her when I'm ready. I'm assuming that the wife believes she had a secure, safe way home. If not I totally side with the husband here. 



EnjoliWoman said:


> I agree there is a lot of projecting regarding cheating. Take that away and it's just about consideration and compromise.


Exactly. The OP's posts have all suggested that this is an issue of consideration and compromise.

It's just good to talk from the other spouse's possible perspective and not just blindly villainize this woman. If I was in this woman's shoes I wouldn't see the big deal about staying at all. And that action wouldn't be taken in an attempt to upset my wife, even if my actions unintentionally did just that. 

I'd rather not default to some nefarious intention on the part of the wife.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

jaquen said:


> I'd rather not default to some nefarious intention on the part of the wife.


You continue to misunderstand. Nobody has assumed the wife intended to cheat. What we have said is that the environment she was in is almost a perfect one to lead to cheating. And the only control she had on the environment was to choose to be in it, or not.

We all know that our environment affects our decisions. So, the perfect environment for cheating, added to the effects of drinking and being tired (even people who routinely stay up until 3 or 4am are tired by that point) could easily lead to a mistake. Recognizing that, a respectful spouse will not put themselves in that kind of environment. And he wouldn't resent his spouse for asking him not to stay in that kind of an environment.


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## scot (Jun 4, 2013)

So let me clarify some things. As a lot of you have said, it's about being considerate and comprising as I feel I did. It was nothing to do with me thinking if I left all if a sudden an orgy would break out. My wife wanted me to come her friends party, and I did. I think by agreeing to stay later when I originally wanted to leave was considerate of my wife having a good time and would've like the same in return when I wanted to go at 2:30am. People had already started to leave before then and by the time we left maybe 6-8 people were still there. It of course a mixed party, everyone was drinking, I had 2 beers over 6.5 hours, my wife had 5 (I think). We were apart for most of the party, she never checked in as someone had asked, I would find her a couple of times to say hi. I floated around talking with someone people and watched some beer pong. She said she'd have whoever drive her home, I don't think anyone left at that point was sober, I was the safest person to drive her home. In regards to comments about being controlling as someone picked up she was out Monday night, she likes karaoke and I have no problem with her going to do what she loves. Most of the people at the party were from various karaoke shows she goes to, I know a couple of the people but most are strangers. She goes to the karaoke herself as I know, especial on a weekday, I'd want to leave early, so she goes alone and can be out as late as she wants (4am Monday). But she wanted me to go to this party, an I had an okay time, but it was ready to go home and just feel like it was unfair to not respect my feelings and recognize that I stayed later for her and to compromise a little bit and come home with me without accusing me of not trusting. It just simply a husband wanting to go home with his wife. Nothing about having a cut off time like someone said. If she wanted to stay to 6am or whatever she should've gone without me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Not exactly your question but....

It's a big mistake to let you wife have a separate social and recreational activity that involves alchohol, bars and staying out by herself until 4:00 A.M.

This is just not consistent with marriage... And to top it off she's rather selfish in wanting her needs to come before your needs.

Put all of this together... Not a good recipe for a marriage.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

scot said:


> But she wanted me to go to this party, an I had an okay time, but it was ready to go home and just feel like it was unfair to not respect my feelings and recognize that I stayed later for her and to compromise a little bit and come home with me without accusing me of not trusting. _Posted via Mobile Device_


So is this lack of compromise common, or just this one time? When you two need to compromise, is it usually her way, your way, or has it been pretty even?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

scot said:


> So let me clarify some things. As a lot of you have said, it's about being considerate and comprising as I feel I did. It was nothing to do with me thinking if I left all if a sudden an orgy would break out. My wife wanted me to come her friends party, and I did. I think by agreeing to stay later when I originally wanted to leave was considerate of my wife having a good time and would've like the same in return when I wanted to go at 2:30am. People had already started to leave before then and by the time we left maybe 6-8 people were still there. It of course a mixed party, everyone was drinking, I had 2 beers over 6.5 hours, my wife had 5 (I think). We were apart for most of the party, she never checked in as someone had asked, I would find her a couple of times to say hi. I floated around talking with someone people and watched some beer pong. She said she'd have whoever drive her home, I don't think anyone left at that point was sober, I was the safest person to drive her home. In regards to comments about being controlling as someone picked up she was out Monday night, she likes karaoke and I have no problem with her going to do what she loves. Most of the people at the party were from various karaoke shows she goes to, I know a couple of the people but most are strangers. She goes to the karaoke herself as I know, especial on a weekday, I'd want to leave early, so she goes alone and can be out as late as she wants (4am Monday). But she wanted me to go to this party, an I had an okay time, but it was ready to go home and just feel like it was unfair to not respect my feelings and recognize that I stayed later for her and to compromise a little bit and come home with me without accusing me of not trusting. It just simply a husband wanting to go home with his wife. Nothing about having a cut off time like someone said. If she wanted to stay to 6am or whatever she should've gone without me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can understand this. Typically, I never want to leave and H wants to leave early. It's part of why we have a 'plan' going in to these situations (most times). 

Communication is really key ahead of time to avoid these kinds of disagreements.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

scot said:


> So let me clarify some things. As a lot of you have said, it's about being considerate and comprising as I feel I did. It was nothing to do with me thinking if I left all if a sudden an orgy would break out. My wife wanted me to come her friends party, and I did. I think by agreeing to stay later when I originally wanted to leave was considerate of my wife having a good time and would've like the same in return when I wanted to go at 2:30am. People had already started to leave before then and by the time we left maybe 6-8 people were still there. It of course a mixed party, everyone was drinking, I had 2 beers over 6.5 hours, my wife had 5 (I think). We were apart for most of the party, she never checked in as someone had asked, I would find her a couple of times to say hi. I floated around talking with someone people and watched some beer pong. She said she'd have whoever drive her home, I don't think anyone left at that point was sober, I was the safest person to drive her home. In regards to comments about being controlling as someone picked up she was out Monday night, she likes karaoke and I have no problem with her going to do what she loves. Most of the people at the party were from various karaoke shows she goes to, I know a couple of the people but most are strangers. She goes to the karaoke herself as I know, especial on a weekday, I'd want to leave early, so she goes alone and can be out as late as she wants (4am Monday). But she wanted me to go to this party, an I had an okay time, but it was ready to go home and just feel like it was unfair to not respect my feelings and recognize that I stayed later for her and to compromise a little bit and come home with me without accusing me of not trusting. It just simply a husband wanting to go home with his wife. Nothing about having a cut off time like someone said. If she wanted to stay to 6am or whatever she should've gone without me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Exactly what I thought. 

No you weren't wrong. You've clarified that nobody left was really sober and that she didn't have a clear plan of action for returning home. I think it was absolutely beyond reasonable for her to come home with you, the safest, most sober person at the party. You weren't trying to control her, you were trying to make sure she got home safely.

You also don't seem to have any problem with your wife staying out late, it was just this particular party you took issue with.

You did not make this thread out of a fear that your wife was going to end up impaled on some dude's penis, and I'm glad you clarified that. 

I hope your boundaries work for your marriage and I really hope this was just a one off, isolated event. But I warn you now you're about to get a flood of posts from people who believe you're handling your marriage all wrong by "giving" your wife too much freedom. Good luck!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

jaquen said:


> But I warn you now you're about to get a flood of posts from people who believe you're handling your marriage all wrong by "giving" your wife too much freedom.


I doubt it. We all know that infidelity is extremely rare these days. And the last person who might cheat is a party girl who routinely hangs out in bars all night long without her husband. Perish the thought that such a woman, in such an environment as a mixed-sex party where the participants are playing drinking games, would ever cross the line.

And besides, we all know that all betrayed spouses can see the adultery coming from a mile away. I've never even heard of a case where someone was caught unawares. As long as you don't think your wife would cheat on you, she can't possibly cheat on you.

As long as he can claim to be only concerned about her safety in terms of getting home, he gets to avoid the cardinal sin of the modern age. Being controlling. Better to leave your wife out all night playing drinking games with other men than to have her think you're trying to control her.

Given this new information, I join with those who can't possibly foresee any potential problems in your relationship. I only suggest getting a pet to keep you company when your wife is out all night. That might help take the edge off a bit.

Good luck.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks for the update Scot. You're already a lot more reasonable than most I think. Maybe that's why she didn't understand where the rub was. So now she knows when you go with her you want her to leave when you do. Seems like a normal thing in marriage.

Personally I fit squarly in the "danger, danger, you're playing with fire" camp that jaquen mentioned above. First things first though. You and her both need to know and agree what the rules are in your marriage.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

Just because the woman feels controlled and untrusted doesn't necessarily make the man controlling and untrusting. Just because the man feels slighted and treated inconsiderately doesn't necessarily mean he was. For me this isn't really about defining OP or the wife at all, that misses the point. It also isn't about who's right or who's reasonable, all of that is subjective and everyone will have their own opinion. 

I like to know clearly where I stand, my values and standards. What I will tolerate in a relationship and what I won't. Sometimes it takes some thought. But I think its wise to be tolerant and accepting on MANY things in a relationship. Few marriages can withstand constantly trying to change the other person. There should be relatively few times where you feel you need to make a stand. If you find yourself doing that often, ask yourself honestly is this about YOUR PARTNER (because they are naturally incompatible with you) or is this more about YOU (i.e. you'd want to have the relationship closely match your vision no matter who you were with). Because every time you find yourself feeling like you need to take a stand, it's a little more evidence towards one or the other.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> Thanks for the update Scot. You're already a lot more reasonable than most I think. Maybe that's why she didn't understand where the rub was. So now she knows when you go with her you want her to leave when you do. Seems like a normal thing in marriage.
> 
> Personally I fit squarly in the "danger, danger, you're playing with fire" camp that jaquen mentioned above. First things first though. You and her both need to know and agree what the rules are in your marriage.


This seems more like common sense than a rule to me. Maybe its just been too instilled in me from varius groups of friends that didn't leave each other at clubs to shipmates that made sure we came back with who we left with on Liberty. Guess I was lucky in finding the right lady because we have had this issue come up and haven't had to make a rule surrounding the subject.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

GetTough said:


> Just because the woman feels controlled and untrusted doesn't necessarily make the man controlling and untrusting. Just because the man feels slighted and treated inconsiderately doesn't necessarily mean he was. For me this isn't really about defining OP or the wife at all, that misses the point. It also isn't about who's right or who's reasonable, all of that is subjective and everyone will have their own opinion.
> 
> I like to know clearly where I stand, my values and standards. What I will tolerate in a relationship and what I won't. Sometimes it takes some thought. But I think its wise to be tolerant and accepting on MANY things in a relationship. Few marriages can withstand constantly trying to change the other person. There should be relatively few times where you feel you need to make a stand. If you find yourself doing that often, ask yourself honestly is this about YOUR PARTNER (because they are naturally incompatible with you) or is this more about YOU (i.e. you'd want to have the relationship closely match your vision no matter who you were with). Because every time you find yourself feeling like you need to take a stand, it's a little more evidence towards one or the other.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Kobo said:


> This seems more like common sense than a rule to me. Maybe its just been too instilled in me from varius groups of friends that didn't leave each other at clubs to shipmates that made sure we came back with who we left with on Liberty. Guess I was lucky in finding the right lady because we have had this issue come up and haven't had to make a rule surrounding the subject.


There are some disturbing things about this story that would scare the crap out of me. At least things that would have me more alert to red flags . . . .

I wonder if Scot was cramping her style. She certainly sounds that way like she didn't try to include him in her socialization and was biding her time until he left without her. She had to act differently around people that she normally interacts with by her self on karaoke night or whenever she goes out alone. That is a scary big red flag. Maybe she felt guilty or fake (or worse disrespectful) about controlling or toning down her normal personality. Of course she would want to go out the next night until 4:00am to reestablish her alone club self. Hope this is paranoia but I would pay more attention for a while. I think there's trouble here.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Scot, if I were you I'd be worried, mainly because I had an ex-gf that acted a lot like your W and she's an ex because she cheated.

Mind you I trusted her completely, I would never had guessed she will cheat in a million years because she was "too good for that". I felt the same way with my current W and well, some of us are slow learners.

Point is, never EVER assume your spouse will never cheat. ANYONE (including yourself) is capable of it if the situation presents itself. Your W seems to like attention and partying, those type of people are very vulnerable to affairs. 

BTW, you weren't wrong, she was being selfish by ignoring her husband's feelings. She needs to understand that being married requires compromises.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Exactly what I thought.


Oh really?

Then why were you so busy excising the fact she was drinking, that they had been there for 6.5 hours already, that he had been invited specifically by her, that he had stayed longer than he wanted already, and anything else but this:



> Perhaps it was as simple as "I'm still having a really good time and I'll see you when I get home". As long as the husband was assured that she was of sound mind and had a solid, safe way to get home, maybe she doesn't see the big deal.


So instead of what you just asserted above, then you make the opposite assertion later:



> No you weren't wrong. You've clarified that nobody left was really sober and that she didn't have a clear plan of action for returning home. I think it was absolutely beyond reasonable for her to come home with you, the safest, most sober person at the party. You weren't trying to control her, you were trying to make sure she got home safely.


The OP made three posts before the last one "clarifying" things, almost all of which he had already stated.

If it was "exactly as you thought" then there wasn't a reason for assuming the opposite of what you thought. Except to be argumentative with people, just for the sake of arguing.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> Oh really?
> 
> Then why were you so busy excising the fact she was drinking, that they had been there for 6.5 hours already, that he had been invited specifically by her, that he had stayed longer than he wanted already, and anything else but this:
> 
> ...


I have absolutely no idea what the hell you're ranting about, and I don't care to find out.

I've not engaged in the previous attempts to bait me into yet another asinine, derailing argument and yours will likewise go unindulged.


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