# Respect & Sex



## lilly_pie13 (Nov 16, 2011)

Hello All 
My husband and I rarely have sex. My husband can get really mean and rude sometimes. I think just because were married sex isnt always a given. If I don't wanna have sex he freaks out..I feel like just because were married that doesn't mean you can treat me like **** and except me to lay down for you. Am I being a huge *****? Should I do it when hes nothing nothing but ignore me since he got home from work or make smart ass comments?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Even on the days he's angry with you, is he still your husband? Do you expect him to behave as a husband even if you've made him mad or upset? Can he just quit going to work if you disappoint him? When you treat him like s$%#, don't you still expect husbandly things from him? Isn't that what you both promised? If the plan is to act lovingly only when you feel loving, there's no need for a marriage ceremony. I feed my wife when she's hungry, not just on the days I'm happy with her.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Even on the days he's angry with you, is he still your husband? Do you expect him to behave as a husband even if you've made him mad or upset? Can he just quit going to work if you disappoint him? When you treat him like s$%#, don't you still expect husbandly things from him? Isn't that what you both promised? If the plan is to act lovingly only when you feel loving, there's no need for a marriage ceremony. I feed my wife when she's hungry, not just on the days I'm happy with her.


You expect a person to make love to someone who is treating them like ****?

No, the OP needs to have a sit down with her husband before she gives him anything.


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## Mr_brown (Oct 17, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I feed my wife when she's hungry, not just on the days I'm happy with her.


I like that one!


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Sex is a two way street. In order for a woman to feel like being physically intimate she needs to feel emotionally intimate. There is no way that my wife can give her body to me while I am being a total jerk to her. I know, I did that for about the first 10 years of our marriage. 

However, withholding sex really is not the answer. He needs to learn how to treat you with respect. I would say that you both need counseling, but that will not work unless he wants it. You need to communicate in a calm way that the way he is treating you is unacceptable. You may need to decide if you really want to stay in a marriage and be treated this way.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Have lots of sex with him and see how it goes. Bet he'll respond to your needs.

Go all nympho and porn star on him.

MEN ARE SIMPLE

But oh no... women don't get that.

So stay miserable and continue to post here.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

tacoma said:


> You expect a person to make love to someone who is treating them like ****?
> 
> No, the OP needs to have a sit down with her husband before she gives him anything.


I promised to be a husband every day until I died regardless of what my emotional state was, regardless of whether my wife happened to please me on any given day. I'm the only person on earth responsible or allowed to take care of her sexual needs. The day I am no longer willing to do what I promised, I will either fix it, get over it, or leave. Withholding that which I promised isn't an option. I go to work whether I'm pissed or not. What value is a "sunshine" partner? I can randomly select any woman on earth and rest assured that she'd have sex with me if she felt like it. 
What happens if you're hit by a bus, burned horribly, brain damaged, unable to walk, feed, or clean yourself? Do you expect him to still be your husband? If his commitment is to endure that, shouldn't your's be strong enough to get over a little anger?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You are absolutely not obligated to have sex with someone who is treating you badly. 

It is also true that you need to ask yourself a question: "Do you feel comfortable rejecting him on a regular basis because you are tired/not in the mood/etc?"

Because sexual rejection is a BIG deal in a marriage. It is ok to be tired and nicely let him know you want to connect with him tomorrow. If he initiates it is ok to say "I am tired, can I rock your world tomorrow". But that is VERY different than just saying "I don't want to". If you are rejecting him and then simply waiting for him to "try again" you may be creating a tense environment in which he generally behaves in a way you don't like. 

If you aren't doing that - if instead you only reject when he is being a jerk you need to sit him down and tell him that. 



lilly_pie13 said:


> Hello All
> My husband and I rarely have sex. My husband can get really mean and rude sometimes. I think just because were married sex isnt always a given. If I don't wanna have sex he freaks out..I feel like just because were married that doesn't mean you can treat me like **** and except me to lay down for you. Am I being a huge *****? Should I do it when hes nothing nothing but ignore me since he got home from work or make smart ass comments?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Then he's not under any obligation to fulfill any husbandly obligations when he perceives himself offended. Hope she never has PMS or depression.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I promised to be a husband every day until I died regardless of what my emotional state was, regardless of whether my wife happened to please me on any given day. I'm the only person on earth responsible or allowed to take care of her sexual needs. The day I am no longer willing to do what I promised, I will either fix it, get over it, or leave. Withholding that which I promised isn't an option. I go to work whether I'm pissed or not. What value is a "sunshine" partner? I can randomly select any woman on earth and rest assured that she'd have sex with me if she felt like it.
> What happens if you're hit by a bus, burned horribly, brain damaged, unable to walk, feed, or clean yourself? Do you expect him to still be your husband? If his commitment is to endure that, shouldn't your's be strong enough to get over a little anger?


:iagree::iagree:

My husband and I still make love when we are not pleased with each other. Life is too short. We would rather discuss our issues and then jump each other; it's a nice way to show that the love doesn't die just because there has been a disagreement.:smthumbup:

When I broke my left hand, my husband helped me dress, bathe and chaffeured me to work. The man did all of this with a smile and hugs for his wife. He is also helping me pay for school, so that I can change careers. Doesn't such a good husband deserve a sexually responsive wife?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

The problem with sex is that there is NO ALTERNATIVE in a committed marriage.

So if partners have a mismatched idea of the importance of sex... that ALWAYS creates stress and damages the marriage in some fashion. many marriages get destroyed over this very issue.

SEX should never be a bargaining chip.... as there is NO ALTERNATIVE. NONE.


Drives me crazy when people think otherwise.
So many marriages could be so much better if both spouses fully understood this basic concept.

I could have avoided years of mental anguish if my wife had a clue.
Frustrating.

She has limited time to figure this out or I'm doing a total and complete shutdown on her. I wont leave her but I will shutdown so she leaves me. She either plays or things will change.

I'm happy because I "think" I shocked her straight finally.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I promised to be a husband every day until I died regardless of what my emotional state was, regardless of whether my wife happened to please me on any given day. I'm the only person on earth responsible or allowed to take care of her sexual needs.


I see the problem, you`re confusing "Spouse" with "**** Doll".

The two are not the same.

One requires an emotional connection, the other doesn`t require anything but some lube and a good sanitizing between uses.

Being a husband/wife is not a sentence invoked to compel one to perform actions against their own needs.



> I can randomly select any woman on earth and rest assured that she'd have sex with me if she felt like it.


Yes, the operative phrase being "If she felt like it".
Kinda contradicts the overall spirit of your post.

So do you think a spouse should be compelled to have sex if they don`t "feel like it".



> What happens if you're hit by a bus, burned horribly, brain damaged, unable to walk, feed, or clean yourself? Do you expect him to still be your husband? If his commitment is to endure that, shouldn't your's be strong enough to get over a little anger?


Just "get over" disrespect and abuse by the one who promised to "honor" you?

There`s a vow that`s a bit more relevant I think.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Then he's not under any obligation to fulfill any husbandly obligations when he perceives himself offended. Hope she never has PMS or depression.


 This is long but indulge me please. 

Dose anyone besides me notice a pattern? When women like this poster ask for assistance with the problems that they are having connecting sexually with their husbands, they are drummed off the forum by bitter angry men. 

In contrast, when men come with the issues with their wives, they receive support and sympathetic advice form both men and women. 

The nature of women is that we need communication and respect in order to feel receptive. That is sex for us. When we don't get what we need, our reaction is just like a man's. We don't feel loved. Men have a less sensitive sex drive and are not usually adversely effected in the same way. However, if they are rejected they feel unloved. That is sex for men. 

Women cannot be male-like in their sexuality no more so than men can be woman-like. However, men can adapt and still have satisfying sex.

Why would one gender be treated with kid gloves and the other like pariahs when they are asking for help with the same type of problem? 

I have a theory.

The hostility of some posters display to women with sexual withdrawal is reflection of the problematic nature of their marriage. There is no way that they are not as angry and bitter and dismissive of their wives problems at home. 

I find it hard to believe that these men are communicative, really hear what their wives are telling them, and make an attempt to love them the way they need. I think they see their wives needs as an attempt to control and jumping through hoops. 

They don't understand that attentive communication and respect is part of sex for women. In essence, they deny their wives intimacy yet still expect sex from her. 

I know someone is going to say - why cant women have sex like men. Women enjoy sex as much as men but they enjoy sex the way their natures dictate. 

Men on the other hand are more robust and adaptable. They orgasm easier than women and more consistently. They are less bothered by distractions. When they adapt to women, they still have their needs met. 

Besides men learn from women to slow down and savor the experience from women and we learn to be comfortable and explorative with our sexuality from men. 

I think most men will agree that sex with a partner they are emotionally connected with motivates them to please her. There seems to be a sense of accomplishment and a goal for men in love to be a good lover. 

But a good lover for a woman is not just technique and orgasms, it's the general emotional closeness and being heard by her partner.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Let's toss in a little logic here. If one commits that they will love another person forever, that implies they will do so regardless of how they feel. Nobody will feel loving every day. No human can navigate life without ever offending or disappointing the person they are with. We are only human. Your mate's needs persist even on the days you are pissed. You are his wife, even if you happpen to be angry. 
My wife has depression, bi-polar, and God knows what else. She treats me like crap every day the sun comes up, even though I'm sure that's not always her intent. I treat her as loving as i can and I attend to her basic needs regardless of how I feel. If I based my treatment of her only upon her treatment of me, she'd be lucky to just get abandoned. I made a promise to God and I owe it to Him to do my best, regardless of how my wife acts or feels. The Bible says spouses shouldn't deny each other sex. It doesn't excuse those who don't feel like complying because they are angry. I took an oath when I went into the Army that I would obey all lawful orders of officers. Doesn't matter how I feel or if the orders made sense to me or if I had a better idea. Didn't matter if obeying an order meant I would likely be killed. 
This isn't about being bitter or anti-female. To me, an oath is made of stone, not Jello. I try to base my actions on my principles and not my emotions. Emotions can be unreliable. A stomach ache fatigue, stress, the weather, or too much coffee can affect my emotions. My principles are always the same. 
Naturally, I don't demand sex or anything else from my wife. She's ill and I take care of her. The OP asked for opinions regarding right and wrong and I'm just explaining how I would handle that decision, personally.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> I promised to be a husband every day until I died regardless of what my emotional state was, regardless of whether my wife happened to please me on any given day. I'm the only person on earth responsible or allowed to take care of her sexual needs. The day I am no longer willing to do what I promised, I will either fix it, get over it, or leave. Withholding that which I promised isn't an option. I go to work whether I'm pissed or not. What value is a "sunshine" partner? I can randomly select any woman on earth and rest assured that she'd have sex with me if she felt like it.
> What happens if you're hit by a bus, burned horribly, brain damaged, unable to walk, feed, or clean yourself? Do you expect him to still be your husband? If his commitment is to endure that, shouldn't your's be strong enough to get over a little anger?


Based on the op, don't think her h would take care of her under any of those circumstances. He isn't taking care of her now. I might be misinterpreting your post but it sounds like you are saying that no matter how OP's h is treating her she should "make love" to him just because he's her h. It's not ok to accept abuse from a spouse just because you are married. The Op has EVERY right to want to be loved and respected and every right to say no until he gives her that respect. 

IMO she needs to communicate her feelings to h. There seems to be some resentment on his part besides the lack of sex.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

lilly_pie13 said:


> Hello All
> My husband and I rarely have sex. My husband can get really mean and rude sometimes. I think just because were married sex isnt always a given. If I don't wanna have sex he freaks out..I feel like just because were married that doesn't mean you can treat me like **** and except me to lay down for you. Am I being a huge *****? Should I do it when hes nothing nothing but ignore me since he got home from work or make smart ass comments?


According to some of the other posters here, I should've had sex with my H the very night he spit on me 

A big fat NO in my humble opinion to your question. You should NOT have sex with him if he has been ignoring you or making smart ass comments to you that day. And no, just because you are married, sex is not always a given. If you are a naturally sexual person and it won't bother you emotionally, go for it, but if you are like a lot of other women (myself included), your emotions on any given day can make or break your sex drive. And if the very person who wants to have sex with you is treating you bad, why would you want to please them and meet their need? Hardly seems fair to me. "You can spit in my face and then I'll feel like sucking your **** tonight". BS.

Question, is he like this often? I've point blank told my H on a few occasions no because of his attitude that day.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

lilly_pie13 said:


> Hello All
> My husband and I rarely have sex. My husband can get really mean and rude sometimes. I think just because were married sex isnt always a given. If I don't wanna have sex he freaks out..I feel like just because were married that doesn't mean you can treat me like **** and except me to lay down for you. Am I being a huge *****? Should I do it when hes nothing nothing but ignore me since he got home from work or make smart ass comments?


Hi Lilly ~

What do you mean when you say your husband can get really mean and rude? What exactly is he doing?

I am all for a wife trying to meet her husband's needs (including sexual ones), but her husband must also be willing to try and meet his wife's.

I am also *not* for a wife bending over backwards, as it were, if the man is being abusive (it doesn't have to be physical - it can be mental/emotional as well), neglectful, spiteful, or purposefully hurtful. For a woman to do so in this case will cause great problems as it will crush your self-esteem and self-respect and will cause great resentments.

A man has a large responsibility in his marriage/family to ensure that he is being the appropriate model of moral/spiritual leadership, and if he cannot do this it is not likely his wife will be able to be a willing helpmate. A poor leader has few enthusiastic followers.

So, if you feel that your husband is just being grouchy because he is unsatisfied because he does not feel like a priority to you, then you can try to make him a higher priority in your life by showing and telling him that you love him, care for him, and appreciate him. You can work to try and increase the intimacy that you currently have and try and make love to him often.

But, if you feel that your husband is beyond grouchy, and is more into the abusive and controlling spectrum, then doing the above will not work at all and it will eventually crush you. If you are in this situation, then I recommend that you try and get some individual counseling and contemplate what it is that you want out of a marriage and a mate and whether your husband is going to be willing and able to meet that and whether you as a wife are also willing and able to meet that.

God Bless.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Catherine602, I am a guy and TOTALLY agree with you because I have learned that in my own marriage. Like I said in an earlier post, it is a two way street. Women need to understand that a man needs sex to feel loved and men need to understand that a wife needs to feel loved to want sex. We were married young (16 & 17) and the sex early on was not good. Once I started to show her love, she opened up sexually. In fact, there are times because of her chronic pain that she would be very justified in turning me down, but she does not...and once we are into it, she REALLY enjoys it.

So, to the guys who have not tried to figure out the needs of their wife...how's that working for you?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> This is long but indulge me please.
> 
> Dose anyone besides me notice a pattern? When women like this poster ask for assistance with the problems that they are having connecting sexually with their husbands, they are drummed off the forum by bitter angry men.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I see you have gotten some flak from others on this Catherine, but I agree with you.

I think it would behoove both men and women to try and wrap their minds around the fact that they come from very different perspectives and learn how to incorporate and indeed even enthusiastically embrace those in order to have the most satisfying relationship possible.

Too often, we actually see people that look at their mates and somehow expect them to conform to their own way of thinking and behaviour, when instead if you can learn to adapt and conform and even exploit those differences - oh my! What joy you can find.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

*Preposturous Generalizing...*



Catherine602 said:


> This is long but indulge me please.
> 
> Dose anyone besides me notice a pattern? When women like this poster ask for assistance with the problems that they are having connecting sexually with their husbands, they are drummed off the forum by bitter angry men.
> 
> ...


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> This is long but indulge me please.
> 
> Dose anyone besides me notice a pattern? When women like this poster ask for assistance with the problems that they are having connecting sexually with their husbands, they are drummed off the forum by bitter angry men.
> 
> ...


I think the reason there is a "backlash" against women is because we have all seen,experienced or heard of many instances where sex is in essence a "gift" or "bargaining chip" for good husband behavior. It doesn't work the other way, it can't sex is different for men vs women. Much more of a need in men.

That in essence is why as a man I get very frustrated whenever I hear any wife using that tone and complaining about her relationship with her husband.

I can virtually guarantee if that same wife "Frequently, fully and completely sexually satisfied with enthusiasm that same very same husband always" ...she would be VERY happy because he would treat her like gold!

But women want a pass... they don't want to play the game, they DE-prioritize the relationship with their husband. Sex is a seen as a task that can be shifted around and not anywhere near a necessity. They starve their husbands of a basic need and then wonder what that guy acts out negatively... it is not rocket science.

Almost all problems in a marriage are because the honeymoon wears off... women get lazy in regards to male needs. that makes husbands care less about female needs when she is STARVING him.

Hence this forum.

Want a good marriage give your husband all the sex he can handle. Go porn star on him.

Look at your marriages... see when the problems occurred and map your sex life overall QUALITY.. direct correlation.

Men are at fault for not recognizing women's needs
(Emotional connection + a lot more)

Women are at fault for not recognizing male needs.
(Men NEED to ejaculate 6 times per week to avoid increased risk of prostate cancer....Dr Oz)

That's why we all are here.

I got better...I learned women's needs over the past two years. My wife is very happy even asked me out tomorrow. Think I'll be getting my male needs taken care of this weekend. About time!


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> But women want a pass... they don't want to play the game. They starve their husbands of a basic need and then wonder what that guy acts out negatively... it is not rocket science.
> 
> Almost all problems in a marriage are because the honeymoon wears off... women get lazy in regards to male needs. that makes husbands care less about female needs.
> 
> ...


I think it really is that the honeymoon wears off for BOTH partners, T2FIO. And people seem like they are just not very committed to trying to make their marriages work.

It does work both ways - there are typically issues going on with both spouses - and we need to realize that and be empathetic to both partners - because they are likely both struggling in different ways.

And, we only get to see one spouse's view on the forum. Several months ago there was a post from a husband complaining about his sexless marriage that I will never forget. His wife found out about the forum and his thread, created her own user id and decided to give her side of the story. It turned out that he was actually abusive. That really showed me to be very careful about making assumptions regarding not only the poster's perceptions, but the 'silent' partner who is typically not represented in their own words on the forum. As they say, there's his story, her story, and the truth. 

As a corollary to your "hey, women - sex up your husbands and you'll never have problems" you could also say "hey, men - be the the kind of attentive, strong, attractive man your wife needs and you'll never have problems". Now, if you can get both husband and wife to be doing that simutaneously, then you've got something, eh? 

Best wishes.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I can't imagine why you aren't jumping his bones when he walks through the door when he treats your poorly. No woman wants to have sex with a man who makes her feel bad. 

Women need to respect to feel love. That is the truth. 

Talk to him about his behavior and how it's having an adverse effect on you/the marriage. Ask him what you can do to help things to.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I think it really is that the honeymoon wears off for BOTH partners, T2FIO. And people seem like they are just not very committed to trying to make their marriages work.
> 
> It does work both ways - there are typically issues going on with both spouses - and we need to realize that and be empathetic to both partners - because they are likely both struggling in different ways.
> 
> ...


Valid point....

BUT

It is is so much easier to quantify overall sex quality/frequency from a female.

Than it is overall and ongoing attentiveness, strength , attractiveness from a male.


Women hold the key. They abuse it more than men.

How long does sex even really take? My wife could make my world amazing giving me a few hours of sexual attention each month. Instead she chose two nights this year for about an hour or so total. All while I was attentive, strong and attractive.

Its her issue. She abused her "power" over a key need of mine.
I treat her like gold anyhow. Had to show her the door for her to finally "get it"


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Valid point....
> 
> BUT
> 
> ...


When I cuddle with my husband after sex, I can't understand why anyone would refuse to enjoy herself, while shouting "I LOVE YOU!!" with her body. 

I have survived sexual abuse both as a child and an adult. Marriage has been very good for my sexual psyche; it is a safe place to enjoy sharing with the man I love.

It's so easy, yet we all make it harder than it needs to be.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> I promised to be a husband every day until I died regardless of what my emotional state was, regardless of whether my wife happened to please me on any given day. I'm the only person on earth responsible or allowed to take care of her sexual needs. The day I am no longer willing to do what I promised, I will either fix it, get over it, or leave. Withholding that which I promised isn't an option. I go to work whether I'm pissed or not. What value is a "sunshine" partner? I can randomly select any woman on earth and rest assured that she'd have sex with me if she felt like it.
> What happens if you're hit by a bus, burned horribly, brain damaged, unable to walk, feed, or clean yourself? Do you expect him to still be your husband? If his commitment is to endure that, shouldn't your's be strong enough to get over a little anger?


I respectfully disagree. I say this as someone who is _totally_ into sex with my man, but if there's a day I don't want to for whatever reason, I do not feel obligated. Promising to be a husband or wife does not include that you must have sex the minute the other wants it or you are defaulting on your vows. Sorry but if I wasn't getting treated well, I'm not going to reward his behavior with sex. I am not under any obligation to do so and neither is anyone else. That would just be a huge violation to have to have sex whether you want to or not. Kind of sounds like what a prostitute does. And I'm not his prostitute.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> I respectfully disagree. I say this as someone who is _totally_ into sex with my man, but if there's a day I don't want to for whatever reason, I do not feel obligated. Promising to be a husband or wife does not include that you must have sex the minute the other wants it or you are defaulting on your vows. Sorry but if I wasn't getting treated well, I'm not going to reward his behavior with sex. I am not under any obligation to do so and neither is anyone else. That would just be a huge violation to have to have sex whether you want to or not. Kind of sounds like what a prostitute does. And I'm not his prostitute.


Yeah but in your case it sounds like you have lots of sex with him anyhow. He's lucky.

The problem lies when wives constantly reject their husbands not because they never prioritize it. It doesn't take much to make most husbands very happy with their sex life.

Yet many wives don't get that and are OK starving their husbands sexually. Because they can and aren't nearly as into sex for good reason. Wives who figure out its not their desire level but the husbands..have much happier and stress free marriages.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Trying - by "bargaining chip" do you mean that the woman tries to get their husband to do things they don't want to do? Or to manipulate him to get something she wants - that does happen of course. A good man working his butt off to please a demanding wife is not a myth. 

But that is not what is happening with this OP. Do you think she is using sex as a bargaining chip? Her husband seems to treat her like he does not love her. If that is the case then he is using her as a sperm receptacle and not for an intimate connection. 

If she got married to a man who was her f**k buddy and there was no love involved then I would agree that she is being unreasonable to expect a loving man. 

But if they got married because they were in love and felt an intimate connection through sex, then she is perfectly within her rights to refuse to be treated like a set of holes. 

She is not refusing intimacy with her husband she is refusing sex as an act to relieve his craving. If he cannot show her love he should not expect to go to her to relieve his sexual cravings. She craves respect, kindness, affection and satisfying communication and he is not giving her that. 

She does not seem adverse to having sex just to having sex with a man who behaves in a way that is not loving.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This threat is interesting. 
- I have never once initiated sex when we were in the middle of an argument - and sometimes our disputes last for 2-3 days.
- If I did something that upset her - and realized I was in the wrong - I have never initated sex until she calmed down and forgave me. Which might take a few days. 
- When we "make up" and forgive it is always "absolute" on both sides and that day or the next we typically resume having sex. 

I ABSOLUTELY do not feel like she uses sex as leverage. I am good to her because I love her. She has sex with me because she loves me. 

She is also very careful not to "reject" - she instead asks me to give her a day. 

She absolutely does not look for reasons to avoid sex either. So she doesn't play the game of "my life sux, I am unhappy, therefore we aren't going to have sex". 





Catherine602 said:


> Trying - by "bargaining chip" do you mean that the woman tries to get their husband to do things they don't want to do? Or to manipulate him to get something she wants - that does happen of course. A good man working his butt off to please a demanding wife is not a myth.
> 
> But that is not what is happening with this OP. Do you think she is using sex as a bargaining chip? Her husband seems to treat her like he does not love her. If that is the case then he is using her as a sperm receptacle and not for an intimate connection.
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Valid point....
> 
> BUT
> 
> ...


Trying - you don't bear even the slightest resemblance to this Op's man. I have posted this to you before. You are allowing your wife to take advantage of you. You are giving far more than you get. 

You have a selfish wife, period. You don't give selfish people more, you give what you get. They have to feel what it is like to have less. That is the only way they change. She treats you like you do not matter and you treat her like gold. You make me angry when I read your post.

You simply will not listen and I cant understand why. She will likely NOT give you what you need. You have not made any alternate plans, that I can see, what you will do if you changes do not work. I hate to see you unprepared for the possibility that she will never change. 

There is not one thing that I posted that applies to you or men like you. You are the opposite of unloving, uncommunicative unkind and inattentive. You have it all but unfortunately your wife does not appreciate that. Just like the OP partner does not appreciate.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> This threat is interesting.
> - I have never once initiated sex when we were in the middle of an argument - and sometimes our disputes last for 2-3 days.
> - If I did something that upset her - and realized I was in the wrong - I have never initated sex until she calmed down and forgave me. Which might take a few days.
> - When we "make up" and forgive it is always "absolute" on both sides and that day or the next we typically resume having sex.
> ...


MEM - I thought about you while writing my post. In a way I understand what Unbelievable et al. are getting at. I can explain it better than they can. 

Refusing a man of sex repeatedly does not solve marital arguments big or small. It resolves nothing and it cuts off communication, makes the man feel unloved, unworthy of his wife's love and depressed and distances him from her. Trying's is prime example of this.

If more women understood this dynamic, they would not use sex to express their displeasure if they love their husband. It has too severe an effect on the man they love and on their union. Far more effective and less damaging ways to problem resolution are available. 

But if a man is like the OP's husband then she should starve him. My feeling he feels no devastation of the type I described above. Angry but not unworthy of his wife's love. He does not seem to care what she thinks or feels. 

My post referred to women, like the OP, who are dealing with intractable and severe issues of lack of respect and abuse. I think she is justified in ceasing sexual relations with him, if she has exhausted ways of improving the relationship. My sense is that Unbelievable think a woman should never refuse sex. 

Otherwise, refusing sex for two weeks after an argument is like killing a person in retaliation for accidentally stepping on your foot.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Trying - you don't bear even the slightest resemblance to this Op's man. I have posted this to you before. You are allowing your wife to take advantage of you. You are giving far more than you get.
> 
> You have a selfish wife, period. You don't give selfish people more, you give what you get. They have to feel what it is like to have less. That is the only way they change. She treats you like you do not matter and you treat her like gold. You make me angry when I read your post.
> 
> ...


Thanks Catherine,

To respond to your first post I was generalizing most of the threads not just the Op's husband.

You have a point about my wife she probably is selfish in ways an does use my good nature to her advantage. If you met my wife you would think she's a fantastic person... because she is. Outwardly she is near perfect.

I disagree that she WON'T give me what I need because she is fully aware that that will likely lead us to divorce. All indicators are that she finally got it. So I have great hope.

I always have alternate plans... one decision point is in February. Rest assured things will change. I'm all about plans. She better not go there with me unhappy. I'm at the point I'm OK with or without her... that's a good place to be. I'm prepared for any eventuality.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I have seen the light and I do apologize to everyone. We all should be free to act according to the whims of our emotions at all times. Considering 25% of all adult women require mental health drugs, those emotions will frequently be inaccurate, but that's the standard we will use.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> This is long but indulge me please.
> 
> Dose anyone besides me notice a pattern? When women like this poster ask for assistance with the problems that they are having connecting sexually with their husbands, they are drummed off the forum by bitter angry men.
> 
> ...


Wow. No offensive generalizations or stereotypes here.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Just wondering, but what might a husband feel free to withhold when he's angry with his wife? It's obviously unreasonable to expect someone to give to a spouse they are angry with.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Just wondering, but what might a husband feel free to withhold when he's angry with his wife? It's obviously unreasonable to expect someone to give to a spouse they are angry with.


I don`t usually have sex with my wife when she`s pissed me off.
Why would I want to have sex with a person I don`t like very much?

However I don`t believe this thread is a case of a simple angry disagreement.

This is about how this wife is treated in the relationship as a standard.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

lilly_pie13 said:


> Hello All
> My husband and I rarely have sex. My husband can get really mean and rude sometimes. I think just because were married sex isnt always a given. If I don't wanna have sex he freaks out..I feel like just because were married that doesn't mean you can treat me like **** and except me to lay down for you. Am I being a huge *****? Should I do it when hes nothing nothing but ignore me since he got home from work or make smart ass comments?


I do have a question about the circumstances here. Is the issue with his rudeness still being address when he approaches you (that is, you two are still fighting and no apology or resolution has occured), or has it been resolved and he is reaching out to you? To my mind, these are two very different circumstances.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> This is long but indulge me please.
> 
> Dose anyone besides me notice a pattern? When women like this poster ask for assistance with the problems that they are having connecting sexually with their husbands, they are drummed off the forum by bitter angry men.
> 
> ...


*** then she should say something worth while instead of drivel
they should make an effort to have worth while conversation not talk about their crazy girlfriends or vampire books or what they saw on Tv.


*****you seem to think we should just be happy to provide shelter and food and cloth and then just be happy to please them even if they are lazy selfish lovers.


*****your statements are just not computing with me satisfying sex is a team effort and wives should care about pleasing their man just as much as men should care about pleasing them.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> *** then she should say something worth while instead of drivel
> they should make an effort to have worth while conversation not talk about their crazy girlfriends or vampire books or what they saw on Tv.
> 
> 
> ...


chilly ~

I'm not trying to bash you. I'm truly curious based upon the comments I've seen you post over the last few days. What would your recommendation be to get a wife to do what you've suggested in regards to communication or trying to get her to care? I mean, I think it's easy enough to recommend to a wife when she's the one on the board, but when it's the husband who comes on and has a wife like that, you can only recommend that he do something to work on himself. I struggle with how you tell people that they should be committed or they should care when it's obvious they don't seem to want to. I think we are just too selfish - especially anymore. Relationships seem to be very 'me' centric and that doesn't work well in a marriage.

I think that there's a real tendency for both spouses in a marriage to be poor communicators, especially about issues regarding intimacy. People just naturally seem to shy away from that. I don't think people are really educated about what to expect and how to manage in a marital relationship. Too bad we don't teach marital relationship management instead of sex ed.

You know, what Catherine writes usually resonates pretty strongly with me. Like she says the words I can't. I think she is a good representation of a certain spectrum of woman - one, like me, who has been struggling to learn how to be the kind of wife who CAN meet her husband's sexual needs and the struggles and thought process she goes through in overcoming the kind of dogma or pain that has made her more repressed. She provides some very perceptive insight into that particular kind of woman's mind, in my opinion, and the turmoil that goes on. Don't dismiss it too lightly and out of hand - because I have been on a very similar journey and some of her words can have a profound impact, if you lift yourself out of your own perspective and try and look at them from the other's (woman's) perspective.


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## Nikki1023 (Sep 24, 2011)

Angry sex is awesome. Go for it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I for one want to thank all women who post here for insight into the female mind. I've come to realize how complex female minds are and that us men just have a hard time relating to that way of thinking.

Male minds are so straightforward in comparison.... I think women just have too much going on upstairs that SEX just gets lost in the static of the female mind. Unless the female specifically takes the time to analyze her thoughts on sex.... which seems to be rare. 

Women just go with what they feel. Guys know exactly what happened with every sex act... they know to the hour when the last time was they had sex. I doubt most females could do the same based on reading posts.

Such different mindsets.


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## Nikki1023 (Sep 24, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> .. I think women just have too much going on upstairs that SEX just gets lost in the static of the female mind. .


Or how about women aren't light switches. I think that makes more sense. Believe it or not, we enjoy sex just as much as you men. Sex is extremely important to us as well, and does not get lost in the thinking. 

Farting and scratching your a$$ then asking for some nookie..isnt exactly the greatest foreplay. 

I wish more men realized the importance of preheating the oven, in order to make sure things could get as great as they should be in the sack. Just my two cents.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Nikki1023 said:


> Or how about women aren't light switches. I think that makes more sense. Believe it or not, we enjoy sex just as much as you men. Sex is extremely important to us as well, and does not get lost in the thinking.
> 
> Farting and scratching your a$$ then asking for some nookie..isnt exactly the greatest foreplay.
> 
> I wish more men realized the importance of preheating the oven, in order to make sure things could get as great as they should be in the sack. Just my two cents.


Explain pre-heating...

I'll bet I do EVERYTHING you list and more. Still don't get any from my wife.

I don't doubt you women enjoy it... when you finally decide to allow it. Over sleep.


Here is another scientific prediction...

Given the choice when you are over tired in bed .... Sleep or Sex

Most all men will choose sex.
Most all women will choose sleep.


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## Nikki1023 (Sep 24, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Explain pre-heating...
> 
> I'll bet I do EVERYTHING you list and more. Still don't get any from my wife.
> 
> ...


Pre-heating is based on the individual person Id assume, and I do think situation dictates. Everyone has their own kink..some people like flowers.. others diner being made..I wont get into mine on here.

Allow it over sleep? Thats just ridiculous. I never thought sex and sleep were in competition with each other. I mean not to kill a mans ego or anything..but time yourself the next time you do it. I highly doubt it will interfere with sleep all that much.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Nikki1023 said:


> Or how about women aren't light switches. I think that makes more sense. Believe it or not, we enjoy sex just as much as you men. Sex is extremely important to us as well, and does not get lost in the thinking.
> 
> Farting and scratching your a$$ then asking for some nookie..isnt exactly the greatest foreplay.
> 
> I wish more men realized the importance of preheating the oven, in order to make sure things could get as great as they should be in the sack. Just my two cents.


_Posted via Mobile Device_
My H will sit right next to me and fart and then want a BJ. Sorry, that's a turn off and my head is not going anywhere closer to where that smell came out of. But that's just me.


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## Nikki1023 (Sep 24, 2011)

Cherry said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> My H will sit right next to me and fart and then want a BJ. Sorry, that's a turn off and my head is not going anywhere closer to where that smell came out of. But that's just me.



And those are the men who complain they dont get sex.

" I dont know man, my wife isnt putting out"

Hmmmmmmm.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Nikki1023 said:


> And those are the men who complain they dont get sex.
> 
> " I dont know man, my wife isnt putting out"
> 
> Hmmmmmmm.


I know! Give me some time to get smell out of nose... Could be a few hours, and if it happened at bedtime, that means tomorrow morning at the earliest ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Nikki1023 said:


> Pre-heating is based on the individual person Id assume, and I do think situation dictates. Everyone has their own kink..some people like flowers.. others diner being made..I wont get into mine on here.
> 
> Allow it over sleep? Thats just ridiculous. I never thought sex and sleep were in competition with each other. I mean not to kill a mans ego or anything..but time yourself the next time you do it. I highly doubt it will interfere with sleep all that much.


You haven't met my wife! =Miss.."I'm tired" at night or in the morning "I'm not in the mood I only like it at night"

See what I'm up against!!!!

Flowers...been there done that at least 50% of time not even a thank you.
Dinner...been there done that (From scratch with table set and cleanup afterwards at least one or twice per week)

Next... I'm in shape good looking, do at least 55% of housework.

And I never fart around her or pick my butt.


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## Nikki1023 (Sep 24, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> You haven't met my wife! =Miss.."I'm tired"
> 
> And I never fart around her or pick my butt.


LOL...No I havent.

Ok, then I def feel for you. Maybe she has some kind of hormonal imbalance. People who didnt enjoy sex were supposed to be weened out of existence according to Darwin, haha. 

Being a woman in her mid 20's I just dont understand the stereotypes people associate between men and women when it comes to sex. Its bothersome. 

I DONT believe men are "simpleminded" but I also dont believe most who complain about lack of sex are all too tactful..i.e. the farting and BJ example above. 

Its not a womans "Duty" to give her husband sex whenever he wants it..I think it is something both people should be enjoying equally. And something Ive been telling alot of my guy friends...If she isnt all that into it before you get married..what makes you think she'll be into it after?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T2,
If you do something nice "flowers/chocolates" etc. and don't even get a thank you - you don't do it again. 

You cannot have a healthy dynamic with someone who ignores your acts of kindness. If I do something for my W - say flowers - and it turns out she isn't into flowers this is what happens:
W - Darling that was so sweet of you. They are beautiful. 
Me - Beaming - glad you liked them
W - I do want you to know I am not so much a "flowers" kind of girl so as a one time wonderful/kind gesture this is great. But....
Me - Puzzled - you don't want me to do this again
W - not really
Me - ok

By the way that exchange did happen. And 22 years passed before I sent flowers again - she was mad - I thought it might be part of an apology strategy. It worked well but only BECAUSE I hadn't made a habit of it. 

But in general if I do something nice, I know she likes, and she doesn't say thank you - well I am confused because I cannot picture that happening. If it did I would likely ask her "Do you no longer like it when I do ...."? 








Trying2figureitout said:


> You haven't met my wife! =Miss.."I'm tired" at night or in the morning "I'm not in the mood I only like it at night"
> 
> See what I'm up against!!!!
> 
> ...


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> chilly ~
> 
> I'm not trying to bash you. I'm truly curious based upon the comments I've seen you post over the last few days. What would your recommendation be to get a wife to do what you've suggested in regards to communication or trying to get her to care? I mean, I think it's easy enough to recommend to a wife when she's the one on the board, but when it's the husband who comes on and has a wife like that, you can only recommend that he do something to work on himself. I struggle with how you tell people that they should be committed or they should care when it's obvious they don't seem to want to. I think we are just too selfish - especially anymore. Relationships seem to be very 'me' centric and that doesn't work well in a marriage.
> 
> ...



My recamondation would be to quit being so selfish.

I guess I'm not the type of guy to want to or have to treat his wife like some imature girl and jump through silly hoops as its apearent to me there will just be another hoop or emotional need that isn't being met.

how about realistic expectations from your husband about what a real life marriage is like.


hey I dated my wife 8 yreas before we got married and she was very sexual and the day we got married it started down hill. I've read all the bull crap articals and did all the sugestions usually comunicated on hear.I've come to the conclusion that I should have left her after the first year of marriage.Some people are selfish to the core and when you call them on it they just have another excuse to explain it away.

So my advice would be to give an ultimatum and a time line then follow through. espically early on in the marriage when there are no kids involved.


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