# Can a Verbally Abusive Spouse Change?



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

I posted a new thread but it was really long and I haven't gotten any responses, even after editing it several times. 

So, I'll try to keep it simple. 

My husband is verbally/ emotionally abusive and I want it to stop without ending my marriage. It's confusing because for the past 8 or 9 months, we've been "so in love" and now he's telling me I make him miserable. This happens on and off and has been cycling for 10+ years. 

Can a verbally abusive spouse change? How can I help him? 

Thanks.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sure they can change. Unfortunately, it's on them to make the change. All you can do is support. 

Have you two tried counseling?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Only if they understand what they are doing, want to change and make an effort to do it. 

Sometimes they need a real wake up call to get to that point. Sometimes it take you actually leaving before they understand how bad it was and even then they may not. 

The only thing you can do to help him is to make it a deal breaker and stick to it. Tell him that if he does it you will leave and follow through. Don't go back until you've seen real understanding and change. If he needs counseling to help him then make that part of your conditions to come back.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Thanks so much for your response. 

My husband has refused counseling many times in the past and gives me a hard time when I attend alone. Last week, he said he would start going to counseling only because he wants to show me how badly I need help. He says I have "mental issues" and often tells me "the only thing wrong in our relationship is you". I just said "Since you're perfect, then it should be easy for you." I don't care why he goes- as long as he goes.


----------



## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

He can change if he wants. Counseling it sounds may be a wake up call for him.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I just went through your other thread. Are you sure he's not cheating? Staying out so late, going to dinner alone, etc sounds fishy. I know you said you talked to him about it but I'd verify it anyway.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I read your other post and please take this as trying to be helpful. From a couple of things you admitted to saying/doing it seems like both of you are contributing to the chaos. I agee with what SGC said: if they realize what they are doing and if they want to change. 

What things changed in the last 8 to 9 months? Is that when he increased his hours at work? What besides him saying so makes you believe he is not cheating? Its actually so many different aspects that seem troubling that its hard for me to give any useful advice but I hope others can. I just hope that you can get through this and that counseling will help. Is your individual counselor helpful? What does she say you should do.

Sorry i couldnt be more helpful but I just pray that the counseling will help.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I just went through your other thread. Are you sure he's not cheating? Staying out so late, going to dinner alone, etc sounds fishy. I know you said you talked to him about it but I'd verify it anyway.


It may sound stupid but I do believe him. Even though I did discover 183 texts between him and a woman over 3 days last week. That is what started all of our arguing. I accused him of cheating. He was texting back and forth with this woman for 2 1/2 hours Monday night and 4 hours Wednesday night. We had a fundraiser at our business and this woman coordinated the fundraiser. He says she is unattractive, and our employee also said she was unattractive. That is beside the point. The point is that it is inappropriate that he spent so much time texting anyone (man or woman) in the evening hours for such a long time. It's unprofessional on both of their parts. I was hurt because he is rude and terse with me and never has time to talk- never wants to text and then he devoted all this time to texting for hours with some lady. (I have been told he is older than I am... maybe late 30's, early 40's.. so she is technically not a "girl" and my husband laughed when I accused him of texting "some girl").


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

committed4ever said:


> From a couple of things you admitted to saying/doing it seems like both of you are contributing to the chaos.


I deleted a paragraph from my initial post that included details about how I have ceased "bad behavior" in arguments as of about 3 years ago. It used to be that I was too sheepish to stand up for myself and all I would do is cower and cry. Then, after a year or so, when he would go on these rants, I started yelling back and calling names, too. Over time, I realized that was part of the problem and have stopped doing that. It's taken years for me to break the habit of fighting back. I did get a little crazy this past week, accused him of cheating, etc. and threatened divorce. I haven't called him names. Not in a long while.



committed4ever said:


> What things changed in the last 8 to 9 months? Is that when he increased his hours at work? What besides him saying so makes you believe he is not cheating?


We had a huge blowup in September 2013 and it involved his parents. He said horrible things about me to his mother and she blew up and said he made her sick and needed to "grow up". Maybe that was a turning point for him. We have a seasonal business and in the winter, things are slow. So, he was able to spend more time at home with me and our baby. We had time to go to museums and have family days. Now, he's at the opposite extreme and is working 7 days a week and 5-6 nights a week, too. We are short-staffed and can't afford to hire more help. He tells me he is working on inventory and other things that only he can do in the evenings.... but I did find out he treats himself to meals out and drinks at local bars without me. We haven't been on a date since our daughter was born 18 months ago so that makes me feel pretty bad. I don't think he is cheating. I think he feels entitled to do whatever he wants to relieve some stress of trying to save a sinking business.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

skinamarink said:


> I deleted a paragraph from my initial post that included details about how I have ceased "bad behavior" in arguments as of about 3 years ago. It used to be that I was too sheepish to stand up for myself and all I would do is cower and cry. Then, after a year or so, when he would go on these rants, I started yelling back and calling names, too. Over time, I realized that was part of the problem and have stopped doing that. It's taken years for me to break the habit of fighting back. I did get a little crazy this past week, accused him of cheating, etc. and threatened divorce. I haven't called him names. Not in a long while.
> 
> 
> 
> We had a huge blowup in September 2013 and it involved his parents. He said horrible things about me to his mother and she blew up and said he made her sick and needed to "grow up". Maybe that was a turning point for him. We have a seasonal business and in the winter, things are slow. So, he was able to spend more time at home with me and our baby. We had time to go to museums and have family days. Now, he's at the opposite extreme and is working 7 days a week and 5-6 nights a week, too. We are short-staffed and can't afford to hire more help. He tells me he is working on inventory and other things that only he can do in the evenings.... but I did find out he treats himself to meals out and drinks at local bars without me. We haven't been on a date since our daughter was born 18 months ago so that makes me feel pretty bad. I don't think he is cheating. I think he feels entitled to do whatever he wants to relieve some stress of trying to save a sinking business.


Maybe he just does not know how to handle stress? Between the 2 of you is he the only one who works on site? From the time you were enjoying yourselves it also seems like you need more quality time together.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Sure, anyone can change. If they want to.

The question is, how long are you going to put up with it in the meantime? If he doesn't change for 20 years, are you prepared to wait for it?


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My take. Until your husband buys in fully and completely to fixing your relationship (including counseling as more than a way to showcase YOUR problems), your situation won't change. So your options are to accept things the way they are, or leave. If you accept things the way they are, he'll likely never change, as he has no reason to go through the internal pain that he would need to go through. If you leave, he MIGHT get a reality check and start working on himself and his side of the relationship. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

skinamarink said:


> Thanks so much for your response.
> 
> My husband has refused counseling many times in the past and gives me a hard time when I attend alone. Last week, he said he would start going to counseling only because he wants to show me how badly I need help. He says I have "mental issues" and often tells me "the only thing wrong in our relationship is you". I just said "Since you're perfect, then it should be easy for you." I don't care why he goes- as long as he goes.


Well, he cant clinically diagnose you. So, his opinion is out. 
When someone deprives you and neglects you, it does things to you! 
He is contradicting himself, he badgers you for going to counseling, but says you are the problem in the relationship?
EVERYONE, needs to talk to someone. It is healthy. That is what we do as humans, mammals; we communicate. In many forms. 
You keep up with your counseling. Always make sure you are in the mix and are taking care of yourself. Whether the reason you are speaking to a therapist in the first place about a mental illness or just to blow off some steam, he SHOULD and is supposed to be supportive of that.
By the way, do you actually suffer from anything? If you d not want to share, no problem!


----------



## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

skinamarink said:


> It may sound stupid but I do believe him. Even though I did discover 183 texts between him and a woman over 3 days last week. That is what started all of our arguing. I accused him of cheating. He was texting back and forth with this woman for 2 1/2 hours Monday night and 4 hours Wednesday night. We had a fundraiser at our business and this woman coordinated the fundraiser. He says she is unattractive, and our employee also said she was unattractive. That is beside the point. The point is that it is inappropriate that he spent so much time texting anyone (man or woman) in the evening hours for such a long time. It's unprofessional on both of their parts. I was hurt because he is rude and terse with me and never has time to talk- never wants to text and then he devoted all this time to texting for hours with some lady. (I have been told he is older than I am... maybe late 30's, early 40's.. so she is technically not a "girl" and my husband laughed when I accused him of texting "some girl").


So, what did the messages contain? Flirty and conversation or sexual or what?

Who care if she is a girl or not! That is not the point. It is still disrespectful.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

bkaydezz said:


> So, what did the messages contain? Flirty and conversation or sexual or what?
> 
> Who care if she is a girl or not! That is not the point. It is still disrespectful.


Um. That was the problem; he deleted them all. All but 3 and those only showed there was a familiar enough level to be joking about something. He maintains the conversation was all about business, as she is helping organize events to get more business for us. I tried to get him to recover the deleted messages for my "peace of mind" and he refused. Yes, of course, this is a HUGE red flag. I have told him over and over if he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't have deleted the messages. Also, if they were business related- might he have wanted to hang on to them for future reference? All I did by asking questions was incite anger. 

He told me "You're just jealous" and I said, "Damn right I am! You don't have 10 minutes a day to talk to me, you trivialize my concerns, call me a "**** cherry on your **** sundae" and then have time and energy to text someone for 6 1/ 2 hours across 3 days?!"
I went on to explain how, even if it was 100% purely business-related, he was sending the wrong message by 1.not including me on what is going on at our business, 2. not texting her from home.. and instead went to our business from 8 p.m.-12 a.m. and texted there, where he said he was going to do work, 3. not texting her late at night and for hours on end and, 4. that he is giving her the wrong impression. She's married, he says. He is giving her the impression he is available and willing to text back and forth for hours. That is inappropriate. He finally said "OKAY" but just to get me to shut up. He doesn't get where I am coming from. He equated his texting someone else to my "taking a new pill' (anti-depressants, etc). I asked him "How do you think it makes me feel to know you spent so much time conversing with someone else when you never make time for me?" He literally said "How do you think I feel whenever you tell me you want to take a new pill?"


----------



## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

skinamarink said:


> Um. That was the problem; he deleted them all. All but 3 and those only showed there was a familiar enough level to be joking about something. He maintains the conversation was all about business, as she is helping organize events to get more business for us. I tried to get him to recover the deleted messages for my "peace of mind" and he refused. Yes, of course, this is a HUGE red flag. I have told him over and over if he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't have deleted the messages. Also, if they were business related- might he have wanted to hang on to them for future reference? All I did by asking questions was incite anger.
> 
> He told me "You're just jealous" and I said, "Damn right I am! You don't have 10 minutes a day to talk to me, you trivialize my concerns, call me a "**** cherry on your **** sundae" and then have time and energy to text someone for 6 1/ 2 hours across 3 days?!"
> I went on to explain how, even if it was 100% purely business-related, he was sending the wrong message by 1.not including me on what is going on at our business, 2. not texting her from home.. and instead went to our business from 8 p.m.-12 a.m. and texted there, where he said he was going to do work, 3. not texting her late at night and for hours on end and, 4. that he is giving her the wrong impression. She's married, he says. He is giving her the impression he is available and willing to text back and forth for hours. That is inappropriate. He finally said "OKAY" but just to get me to shut up. He doesn't get where I am coming from. He equated his texting someone else to my "taking a new pill' (anti-depressants, etc). I asked him "How do you think it makes me feel to know you spent so much time conversing with someone else when you never make time for me?" He literally said "How do you think I feel whenever you tell me you want to take a new pill?"


Oh yes, so wrong. So inappropriate. 
He is very selfish in the way he thinks and feels when it concerns you.
Just snatch his phone out of his hand, jump in the car and lock the doors. (Be SPITEFUL). That is actually horrible advice. lol I am sorry. It just makes me mad to know that he will not even hand his phone over. So I know he is lying and hiding something for sure.
You are right about your business. If you are communicating about the business, you keep your partner up to date. 
As far as your "pill" goes. I wouldn't reveal anything else about your counseling to him. Anything about your medicine. I mean this is just humiliating to be discussed of behind your back as a thing then a human living and suffering. You clearly have a a lot of responsibility with your marriage and your business, not to mention other areas of your life. 
He needs a little reality check.
Hell, you could always run the phone over then hand him a pill when he flips out because he cant text her anymore!


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

My situation is not fully fixed, but a drastic shift has occurred and this is what preceded it....

I got TOTALLY FED UP... ready to be divorced.

Kicked him out of the house for excessive anger.

Required him to get help for his anger or he was risking divorce with me.

Then left it alone.

Lived my life as a single Mom, taking care of my son (NO MEN)

I was content just being alone and being a Mom

It was just a hard boundary that was a long time coming after doing a lot of work on myself first.

He started counseling on his own eventually, then reached out to our church when he realized I was dead serious and since then he has gone to the professional counselor every other week, has gone to mentorship at our church EVERY WEEK and now twice a week, every week since one session now includes me and him together. 

You gotta rattle their cages on things like this for them to choose to change... I don't see any other way... tried it all first before going hard core boundary. He just wasn't welcome in my space anymore as angry as he was all the time. It was excessive in three ways... chronic, big and non responsive. I never received a break from it and was constantly at risk for escalation. Had just become too dangerous... so it's get right or get the H*** out... He is choosing well.... I knew he had what it took if he chose too... He was being a spoiled BRAT and I was done with it... His mother telling him to grow up speaks volumes to me.. you have an adolescent man in a full grown male body and you have to treat him like an adolescent for a while for him to leave it behind. In the mean time you have to decide if you are willing to stay the course... because I had gone through so much with my mother prior to him, I had gained a GREAT deal of strength and then seven years with him... by the time I put my foot down, I had the capacity to keep it there and not blink. 

I am woman hear me roar... I had had it... if you can't tell... lol

Sometimes you just have to get mad enough...

And stand FIRM in that truth of what is unacceptable


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

skinamarink said:


> Um. That was the problem; he deleted them all. All but 3 and those only showed there was a familiar enough level to be joking about something. He maintains the conversation was all about business, as she is helping organize events to get more business for us. I tried to get him to recover the deleted messages for my "peace of mind" and he refused. Yes, of course, this is a HUGE red flag. I have told him over and over if he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't have deleted the messages. Also, if they were business related- might he have wanted to hang on to them for future reference? All I did by asking questions was incite anger.
> 
> He told me "You're just jealous" and I said, "Damn right I am! You don't have 10 minutes a day to talk to me, you trivialize my concerns, call me a "**** cherry on your **** sundae" and then have time and energy to text someone for 6 1/ 2 hours across 3 days?!"
> I went on to explain how, even if it was 100% purely business-related, he was sending the wrong message by 1.not including me on what is going on at our business, 2. not texting her from home.. and instead went to our business from 8 p.m.-12 a.m. and texted there, where he said he was going to do work, 3. not texting her late at night and for hours on end and, 4. that he is giving her the wrong impression. She's married, he says. He is giving her the impression he is available and willing to text back and forth for hours. That is inappropriate. He finally said "OKAY" but just to get me to shut up. He doesn't get where I am coming from. He equated his texting someone else to my "taking a new pill' (anti-depressants, etc). I asked him "How do you think it makes me feel to know you spent so much time conversing with someone else when you never make time for me?" He literally said "How do you think I feel whenever you tell me you want to take a new pill?"


Do you have access to the online usage details... it can show whether pics were exchanged.... if they were even further red flag. This is what happened with my man... Oct 2012 busted for sexting by finding picture swapping. and later they made out in a car.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

And I meant to include that when he got into all this outside help with counselor's and mentors... he found out real quick I was NOT the problem. BIG REALITY check for him and a MASSIVE dose of humility hit him. He re approached me with his tail between his legs. One of the men at our church held his feet to the fire about how he was treating me and wasn't letting him justify maltreatment in any way NO MATTER what my behavior was... he FINALLY realized what I meant by put your eyes on your own paper. And realized he was repeating the mistakes of his own Father and broke down... They have to get in a spot of desperation and take a hard look at themselves for it to turn around. It's not pleasant and easy won't cut it.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Do you have access to the online usage details... it can show whether pics were exchanged.... if they were even further red flag. This is what happened with my man... Oct 2012 busted for sexting by finding picture swapping. and later they made out in a car.


I am so sorry that happened to you. Texting is bad enough, knowing there were pictures exchanged has to be gut-wrenching. All of the messages show as "text" on the usage details. They've never even exchanged a phone call. After multiple difficult conversations regarding this subject, I am going to take my husband's word for it. He is very busy and very stressed. He works all day (until 7 p.m.) and the only time he has to take care of special projects, such as the one these two were supposedly organizing, is in the evening. Why he didn't include me in details pertaining to our business is beyond comprehension. That said, I've learned of a LOT of things that he isn't telling me about... just because we aren't communicating. We just don't talk. He doesn't feel the need.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> And I meant to include that when he got into all this outside help with counselor's and mentors... he found out real quick I was NOT the problem. BIG REALITY check for him and a MASSIVE dose of humility hit him. He re approached me with his tail between his legs. One of the men at our church held his feet to the fire about how he was treating me and wasn't letting him justify maltreatment in any way NO MATTER what my behavior was... he FINALLY realized what I meant by put your eyes on your own paper. And realized he was repeating the mistakes of his own Father and broke down... They have to get in a spot of desperation and take a hard look at themselves for it to turn around. It's not pleasant and easy won't cut it.


Good for you. I am so glad things are starting to get figured out. I am happy for you that your husband is one of the few that is able to do that inner reflection and make a change. We don't have a support system like a church in place (we don't attend- and husband won't consider it). We have family and that's about it. I've considered an "intervention"... even tried a mini-intervention regarding his anger and emotional abuse last summer and it didn't go well at all. After that, we were generally pretty good (although not having much sex) for 8-9 months. Just a little bickering due to stress of business is what preceded the texting issue and subsequent discovery of his regular meals & drinks out when he is "working". 

I can't see my husband being one of the few who would be able to dig deep and do the kind of work your husband seems to be doing. He's just not introspective at all...and that scares me. Hope things continue to get better for you.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

From the perspective of the child of a verbally abusive father I can say that in my experience, no, they don't change. Maybe for the few that seek outside help, and get the *right* sort of help, change is possible. I specify the *right* help because some counsellors just encourage bad behaviour. I guess not everyone can be good at their chosen profession.

My father never sought outside help. He is verbally abusive even in his retirement, so having less stress didn't seem to change anything. Sometimes I step in because I can't stand to hear it anymore, other times I just have to leave. I look back on my childhood and remember bickering with Dad a great deal. Nothing has ever helped stop it. Whatever reaction my mother has; ignoring it, fighting back, trying to reason, getting upset, doesn't change anything. It's completely his problem and no one else has ever been able to fix it for him and he's never chosen to fix it for himself. That said, Mum never forced him to make a choice. She did leave him once, but came back, he'd done nothing to improve himself in that time.

From the perspective of a wife, my DH used to make our disagreements personal. He still does sometimes and I make sure I always call him on it. He'd call me a nag etc if I pointed out he wasn't doing his share of the workload. I can't abide personal insults when I'm trying to resolve a problem we're having. I could see it as his way of avoiding the issues, his way of avoiding stepping up and either admitting to not doing the right thing or giving a good reason for not having done so. Instead of doing what he should he'd try and deflect it and make out like I was a 'bad guy', that there wasn't really a 'problem', it was just ME that was the 'problem'. Well that crap doesn't wash with me. I've heard my father insulting my mother all my life and I'll be damned if I have to listen to someone do it to me for the rest of my life too. I would wait until the dust had settled after a disagreement and go back and tell him everything he said that I didn't want to hear again, and why it was inappropriate. He's getting better I think. It helps that he doesn't get explosively angry.


----------



## muppet (Mar 4, 2014)

skinamarink said:


> Um. That was the problem; he deleted them all. All but 3 and those only showed there was a familiar enough level to be joking about something. He maintains the conversation was all about business, as she is helping organize events to get more business for us. I tried to get him to recover the deleted messages for my "peace of mind" and he refused. Yes, of course, this is a HUGE red flag. I have told him over and over if he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't have deleted the messages. Also, if they were business related- might he have wanted to hang on to them for future reference? All I did by asking questions was incite anger.
> 
> He told me "You're just jealous" and I said, "Damn right I am! You don't have 10 minutes a day to talk to me, you trivialize my concerns, call me a "**** cherry on your **** sundae" and then have time and energy to text someone for 6 1/ 2 hours across 3 days?!"
> I went on to explain how, even if it was 100% purely business-related, he was sending the wrong message by 1.not including me on what is going on at our business, 2. not texting her from home.. and instead went to our business from 8 p.m.-12 a.m. and texted there, where he said he was going to do work, 3. not texting her late at night and for hours on end and, 4. that he is giving her the wrong impression. She's married, he says. He is giving her the impression he is available and willing to text back and forth for hours. That is inappropriate. He finally said "OKAY" but just to get me to shut up. He doesn't get where I am coming from. He equated his texting someone else to my "taking a new pill' (anti-depressants, etc). I asked him "How do you think it makes me feel to know you spent so much time conversing with someone else when you never make time for me?" He literally said "How do you think I feel whenever you tell me you want to take a new pill?"


believe me if he's cheering you will know, I did it's getting him to admit it. I had to tell my partner that it was over to get him to say he was. It sounds like he is with the texting. It turns out that she was black making my partner using the I will tell your misses if you don't meet me or talk to me when I phone and text you. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

he has to be able to see his own actions, to realize that his actions are hurtful and not want to do this and then take the proper steps for change for himself which would more than likely involve some good counseling. He has to put the effort into it and really work for it.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

PBear said:


> Sure they can change. Unfortunately, it's on them to make the change. All you can do is support.


:iagree:

I was like your husband once. I don't think anyone would have been able to talk me into changing... I had to decide on my own.



skinamarink said:


> My husband has refused counseling many times in the past and gives me a hard time when I attend alone. Last week, he said he would start going to counseling only because he wants to show me how badly I need help. He says I have "mental issues" and often tells me "the only thing wrong in our relationship is you". I just said "Since you're perfect, then it should be easy for you."


Snarky responses don't help. Often this dynamic is you two feeding off each other. When you escalate it only makes things worse.



skinamarink said:


> I don't care why he goes- as long as he goes.


Good. Perhaps I read more into that one comment - but I suspect you've both got some growing to do.

Much of my ending my verbally abusive ways was shutting down my wife when she was dismissive, disrespectful or sh|t testing me. Previously I'd blow up when she did any of them. I learned to dissect what she was doing, and *calmly* call her on what she was doing.


----------



## violet37 (Apr 8, 2014)

They can change if they really want to, but most verbally abusive people are also narsissists. They think they are entitled to be that way and everybody else, spouse included, is stupid. The only time I have seen people like that make a change, is if they are faced with losing what they love most.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

skinamarink said:


> It may sound stupid but I do believe him. Even though I did discover 183 texts between him and a woman over 3 days last week.


No offense, but 

:rofl:

No, your honor, he wasn't cheating on me. He was just pouring all his love and sweet thoughts over to another woman and contacting her 3 times an hour for 72 hours, but he's with ME! He lives with ME! So of course he's not cheating! Texting another woman is _COMPLETELY _harmless!


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Now, as to your question...you have one chance only of getting him to change. Well, two really, but one involves you kicking him out and telling him if he wants to stay married, he'll get counseling.

The other chance involves NO THERAPY FOR HIM WHATSOEVER.

Why? Because it does no good. HE is perfectly HAPPY b*tching at you and blaming all his woes on you. He has NO REASON to change. 

Therefore, the only person who should be doing anything differently at this point is YOU. YOU need to be in therapy by yourself to learn about boundaries and consequences and then start enacting them. NOTHING else will EVER get him to treat you better, short of you leaving him. It just won't.


----------



## Orla (May 22, 2014)

Turnera, You are 100% right. And OP, this man is gaslighting you like I have never seen before. I mean they are not even half way Good lies! They blow. Darling OP I want you to go and take a old school Kodokan Judo class so you feel better about yourself and can throw his fanny out the door. Go meet some nice guys who will help give you your confidence back and rock your man's world if he ever puts his hands on you EVER. He will be airborne before he has a hot clue what's happening.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Orla said:


> Turnera, You are 100% right. And OP, this man is gaslighting you like I have never seen before. I mean they are not even half way Good lies! They blow. Darling OP I want you to go and take a old school Kodokan Judo class so you feel better about yourself and can throw his fanny out the door. Go meet some nice guys who will help give you your confidence back and rock your man's world if he ever puts his hands on you EVER. He will be airborne before he has a hot clue what's happening.


What constitutes "putting hands on"? We had a "tussle" tonight. First in a while - and absolutely awful and ridiculous. It was me trying to grab a memory card from a camera from him and him refusing to give it to me. I wrote details about it in my other ridiculously titled thread "Can I change myself to end the chaos? (Long)" 

Thanks for your response.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

turnera said:


> Now, as to your question...you have one chance only of getting him to change. Well, two really, but one involves you kicking him out and telling him if he wants to stay married, he'll get counseling.
> 
> The other chance involves NO THERAPY FOR HIM WHATSOEVER.
> 
> ...


Yes, he is perfectly happy doing as you describe. He has no incentive to change. He often has said, "The only thing wrong with our relationship is you." 

Tonight was awful. First time I have felt scared of him. It got pretty physical. Twisting wrists, trying to pry fingers off of a memory card... the two of us bent over, writhing and twisting over a memory card. He was acting funny, the card wasn't in the camera... he said he didn't know where the card was. I went to look for it.. .only to find it was in his hand. Immediately flipped my "crazy" switch and I asked what he was up to. More details on my other thread.

Thanks


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

It's confusing that you have the two threads going simultaneously. Maybe you should link them in the OPs or something.


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

yeah if the spouse works at it...sure. But it assumes the spouse loves you and is willing to work at it...learn some coping rules. Also, as the spouse ages, it may get better--some mellow out with age


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> It's confusing that you have the two threads going simultaneously. Maybe you should link them in the OPs or something.


I would totally do that if I knew how!


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Now I see you have a third.

In order to link a thread, you open a second tab on your browser and navigate to the thread you want to link to, copy its address from the address bar and paste it into your OP, which you edit using the edit button at the bottom right.


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Now I see you have a third.
> 
> In order to link a thread, you open a second tab on your browser and navigate to the thread you want to link to, copy its address from the address bar and paste it into your OP, which you edit using the edit button at the bottom right.


Does that mean I then delete the other thread?-- Sorry, I just don't understand. In the thread titled "Physical Confrontation?", I did link the other 2 threads. But, if I delete the threads... the links won't work, as the threads will no longer exist. Again, sorry for the multiple threads. Two were started several weeks ago. I was in a bit of a crisis mode last night and needed responses quickly, which is why I started the 3rd thread. It was also a different topic... but I guess it is all related to the other threads. Sorry.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

No don't delete it! Just link to it


----------



## skinamarink (May 5, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> No don't delete it! Just link to it


Okay. I did that! 
Here is a link to the most recently posted thread. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/195642-physical-confrontation.html

Maybe the other two will just fall to the bottom and people will only reply to the linked one above. And, if they are interested to read more, the other two are linked. 

Thanks for your help.


----------

