# Why me?



## Dowjones

I am new here and have a problem. My wife of 6 years recently admitted to a short affair with a co-worker (black), that happened 3 months ago. The reason she "came clean", is that we began attending a new church. The pastor stresses honesty and my wife confessed the next day. I immediately left and have not talked to her, in person, in a month. She is filled with remorse and is receiving emotional counseling for depression. I simply cannot look at her anymore. She has outed the co-worker to his wife, resigned from her job, and admitted the affair to her family and mine, and has confessed to our pastor, but it isn't enough. She has repeatedly told me over the phone that it only lasted a month and was mainly an emotional affair with sex only once, and that after the one time, she ended it and has not talked to him (other than work-related stuff) since. The reason she gave was that she isn't able to conceive (which she didn't tell me about)and has been having bouts of low self-esteem and the co-worker became her confidant, and was easy to talk to about her issues. Why didn't she come to me? She says that she loved me too much to tell me about her medical problems ( we have always said that we would start a family together) and I was financially ready and pressing her, and she lost her head. IDK. How can I believe her? Help !!!


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## unbelievable

She didn't have to tell you anything but she confessed in full. Other than that, she's apparently kept you reasonably happy for 6 years. She made a big mistake but she's done everything in her power to make it as right as possible. She's not perfect and neither is anyone else. Perhaps you have never had an affair but you don't know for a fact that you never will because you are just as human as she is and your life isn't over. 
If she needed emotional support and went somewhere other than to you with that need, you must bear at least a small portion of the blame. I don't know why she didn't come to you and maybe she can't even articulate it completely. Perhaps during the time this affair went on you weren't quite as receptive, attentive, approachable, etc. Whatever this was, it was pretty serious and went on for 6 months, apparently without you being the wiser. I almost have to believe your focus was somewhere else. 
Just from what you've written, this woman and your marriage sounds like it's worth fighting for. Not many people have the guts to confess to something nobody has even accused them of. If you handle her confession badly, you'll be training her that dishonesty is rewarded but honesty is punished. That just seems a little backwards to me.


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## Dowjones

Thank you for your comment. The affair was 3 months ago, but only lasted a month. Just clarifying. I have been very busy and maybe that was part of the problem, but I do know that if she had told me about her medical issues, I would have been receptive. I have been working full time and finishing my degree work for my masters, in preparation for us having children. Sometimes I'm gone from home 18 hours a day, I have worked myself to the point of exhaustion, for her, for us, and she f**ked another guy. How can I trust her? Why should I? My Mom and Dad and her parents have talked to me and told me that she is having thoughts of suicide, and is only waiting for a kind word from me. But what about me? Did I deserve this? I WANT MY FAITHFUL WIFE BACK!!! Not the cheater I seem to have married.


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## AFEH

DowJones
I just don’t go there anymore with the “I must have done something wrong to make my wife do this or that”.

“What about me?”. Of course that’s the question you should ask. Every time someone tells you must have been part to blame for your wife’s affair that just minimises the affect her betrayal has had on you.

You know now your wife is not the person you thought she was. She is in many ways a new person to you. She’s a person capable of disloyalty, deception and lies. It is for you to make your mind up what to do about it.

She is also a person who does not treat you as her personal confident. Why on earth she had to “broadcast” the fact she had an affair is way beyond me. That should have been something resolved between the two of you.

On top of all that your wife has said she’s suicidal. If you can do it I suggest at least 3 months no contact with your wife. You will need at least that amount of time for your emotions to get back on even keel. This is time to take care of yourself and nobody else. There are plenty of people who will willingly help your wife with her suicidal thoughts.

Bob


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## Dowjones

Thanks Bob. I never realized how much something like this would throw me. I also realize that she is trying to be completely open and (at last) communicate her problems to me. But is it too little too late? She has told me that she was terrified to tell me she could not have any children, knowing how much I want them, and the stress caused her to confide in her co-worker, which led to one sexual episode. Is this a bunch of crap? The co-worker has been fired, and he and his wife have decided to re-concile and have moved to Cal. Before they left, I confronted him and he told me the same as my wife. I'm afraid that I roughed him up a little. but his wife said that he deserved everything he got. IDK, I hope that other can give me some advice on how tto proceed with this, I'm just totally broken hearted.


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## jessi

Hi there, 
First of all I would like to say that I can understand all the disappointment you are feeling right now, I'm a BS as well..
I remember in the beginning when I found out, I was devastated and everything I believed to be true had been destroyed by a selfish act and that is what having an affair is......
Your wife has done more than most do when the truth comes out, The BS's here want what she has given you to repair the damage in the marriage.....you are one of the lucky ones........she must be depressed about not being able to have children naturally and probably has a lot of guilt about letting you down and she probably thinks the future the two of you wanted so badly can't happen now......
How she handled all that pain was wrong and she hurt the person she loved the most by making that decision......
Life is a long time to go through without making a mistake and we just don't know what we will do ourselves.....I would say give yourself more time to digest the facts, you can re-build your relationship, a lot of them have been saved here that were in a lot more trouble than yours.....it takes working together, this is your chance to have the best marriage you could want....maybe you were starting to drift away from each other a little, but it sure seems to me like she is remorseful and wants to stay in a life with you......forgiveness is a powerful thing.....spend a little time together, you don't have to commit to anything yet, go see her, hold her in your arms and just understand that she made a mistake and that she loves you......
You can save her and your marriage......


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## Sadara

I highly recommend you read a book called Surviving an Affair. It's going to help you a great deal.

I am also a betrayed spouse. I know exactly how you are feeling and what you are going through. I found out that the woman my husband had an affair with was once married to my husband. It was years and years ago. But he never told me he was married to her. So, turns out I'm his third wife, not his second. I found that out from the other woman's husband. Pretty messed up.

But, let me say this, and I am NOT minimizing how you feel. Your wife strayed for a reason. That reason would be that she wasn't getting what she needed from you. If you spent that much time away from her and didn't provide her with quality time, you essentially ignored her and gave plenty of time for someone else to come along and be her knight in shining armor. Yes, it sucks for me to tell you this. It sucks for it to be true. And it is in no way a justification for an affair. But, you probably took your wife for granted. You probably pressured her about kids so much she felt she would be destroying you if she told you the truth about her medical history.

Sadly, she probably is suicidal. She probably does need a kind word. I can only wish my husband had been as repentant as your wife. I got blamed for the affair when I first discovered it. He hasn't blamed me any more, but repentant isn't something he's ever expressed.

I assume you are still married to her. You owe yourself a decision. I don't agree with AFEH/Bob on this one point, do not take 3 months or whatever. Decide if you want to work it out and start taking those steps or decide if you want to leave and get a divorce. But, this holding pattern isn't going to help anyone move on.

Lastly, go see a counselor, one specializing in marriage counseling if you choose to work it out. Your marriage can be saved, and better for the tragedy you've been through, if you want to save it.


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## notreadytoquit

At least she came out clean, you did not have to find out. 

I understand how difficult this is for you but there is worse. There are many WS who do not come forward by themselves. They wait to be busted by the other spouse. Many feel absolutely no remorse, deny obvious evidence, try to make you look like you are crazy, treat you like you were the one having an affair, continue with lies and deceptions even after they are discovered. Heck some of them(WS) even have the audacity to file for divorce.

Based on your post sounds like this was one time thing, and I would suggest to take care of yourself first but also consider talking to her to find out what drove her to this. Also try counselling and if things don't work out at least you can say you did try to save the marriage. Divorce is the easy way out, do you really want to give up that easy?


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## Dowjones

Thanks to all. My wife has told me that the main reason she was not forthcoming about her problems was that she was concerned about adding another problem to my plate, and as we are in a city where she has no friends, she confided in her co-worker because he had some experience with this issue. His wife and I compared notes and she told me that they had a very difficult time conceiving and only have one child. My wife and the co-worker have told the same or essentially the same story. After work, they went out for a drink and talked, this was right after my wife found out that she was basically infertile. She said that she was very emotional and after drinking (which my wife is un-used to) the went to his car and kissed and had sex one time, then she ran away and came home. From what his wife says , this is the only time he was late coming home from work, and she knew something had happened but didn't know what it was until my wife told her. I am trying to get a handle on my feelings. Jessi, I wish , with all of my heart that I could take my wife into my arms, but she is no longer the woman I married and she seems a stranger to me. How can I forgive and trust again? She called me this morning and broke down again. She said that she would crawl on her belly to me if I would give her another chance. Way too much drama, for me to handle. I do not know what to do.


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## marilee

You'll always wonder and you'll never be able to fully trust her again, justifiably. 

If I didn't have children, I would walk away. Find a spouse who I could trust, who was faithful.


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## marilee

And if you do end up staying together, and you have children (through IVF or adoption or whatever), how is she going to handle THAT stress? Everytime something upsetting/stressful happens, if you are not there to hold her hand, is she going to turn to someone else? Because trust me, kids do NOT make life easier. 

I hope she is in individual counseling. She seems to have shockingly inappropriate boundaries.


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## JPJ

Hey Dow,

My advice is to move on.....i really don't understand how so many people can tolerate an affair...

Its the ultimate act of deception....and in my religion the worst sin you can do....i clearly don't understand how people can carry on again....do people have no self respect...

If there was problems then she should of discussed it with you before deciding on to cheat....

My opinion anyway......

Of course the decision would be with you........


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## Dowjones

After talking with her this morning, I have at least come to one decision. I am going to meet her , in person and either have her leave for good or try to come to some kind of understanding and attempt the process of reconciliation. She has been totally open and has answered all of my questions , so far, but I need to see how I feel being near her. She has even offered to let me have as much sex with other women as I want, if only I allow her back into my life. I'm thinking about taking her up on that idea. Are there any cheaters here who have reconciled and have regained their spouse's trust? How did you do it? She has offered me everything, but will she resent me later? Will I resent her too much to try to re-connect. IDK:scratchhead:


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## Sadara

Ack, don't do it! Meaning don't sleep with as many women as you can just to get back at her. It will not help.

I'm still in the healing process with my husband and his affair. I still don't fully trust him, but the trust is return, a little bit at a time. It'll probably be a full year, even after the anniversary of his affair ending before I could say the trust will fully be restored.

I think when you meet with her you'll know if you want to work it out or not. I do think her begging you, which she is doing, is making her unattractive to you. No one likes a beggar and it does kinda sound like she is begging. At any rate, you don't have children, so you don't have any other reason to work this out than for yourself.

I made the choice to work this out because I have two kids that have a right to grow up with both parents in the home. I think if I didn't have kids I would have just left my marriage when my spouse cheated on me. You have to make the right choice for yourself, not for anyone else.


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> Thanks to all. My wife has told me that the main reason she was not forthcoming about her problems was that she was concerned about adding another problem to my plate, and as we are in a city where she has no friends, she confided in her co-worker because he had some experience with this issue. His wife and I compared notes and she told me that they had a very difficult time conceiving and only have one child. My wife and the co-worker have told the same or essentially the same story. After work, they went out for a drink and talked, this was right after my wife found out that she was basically infertile. She said that she was very emotional and after drinking (which my wife is un-used to) the went to his car and kissed and had sex one time, then she ran away and came home. From what his wife says , this is the only time he was late coming home from work, and she knew something had happened but didn't know what it was until my wife told her. I am trying to get a handle on my feelings. Jessi, I wish , with all of my heart that I could take my wife into my arms, but she is no longer the woman I married and she seems a stranger to me. How can I forgive and trust again? She called me this morning and broke down again. She said that she would crawl on her belly to me if I would give her another chance. Way too much drama, for me to handle. I do not know what to do.


I reckon you need “time out”. Take 3 months out from your wife. In that time I guarantee you will get to know her much better than you do now and much better than if you continue in a dialogue with her. Just leave her alone for 3 months and watch how she responds over that time.

Bob


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> After talking with her this morning, I have at least come to one decision. I am going to meet her , in person and either have her leave for good or try to come to some kind of understanding and attempt the process of reconciliation. She has been totally open and has answered all of my questions , so far, but I need to see how I feel being near her. She has even offered to let me have as much sex with other women as I want, if only I allow her back into my life. I'm thinking about taking her up on that idea. Are there any cheaters here who have reconciled and have regained their spouse's trust? How did you do it? She has offered me everything, but will she resent me later? Will I resent her too much to try to re-connect. IDK:scratchhead:


Don’t reckon you will ever regain the trust. Not ever. You will more likely be thinking if she gets another problem in her life will she go off with another man.

What “value” does you wife put on sexual relationships? She has told you you can sleep with as many women as you like and she will still be with you. What does that tell you about your wife, her values and beliefs and her behaviour? Be assured she will expect you to tolerate the same behaviour and “take her back”.

I think you’d be crazy to adopt the same behaviour your wife exhibits. Be true to yourself and no one else.

Bob


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## AFEH

notreadytoquit said:


> At least she came out clean, you did not have to find out.
> 
> I understand how difficult this is for you but there is worse. There are many WS who do not come forward by themselves. They wait to be busted by the other spouse. Many feel absolutely no remorse, deny obvious evidence, try to make you look like you are crazy, treat you like you were the one having an affair, continue with lies and deceptions even after they are discovered. Heck some of them(WS) even have the audacity to file for divorce.
> 
> Based on your post sounds like this was one time thing, and I would suggest to take care of yourself first but also consider talking to her to find out what drove her to this. Also try counselling and if things don't work out at least you can say you did try to save the marriage. Divorce is the easy way out, do you really want to give up that easy?


NTTQ,
I know what you say is very true.

But in one way or another cheating spouses all "play a game". And it’s a dysfunctional game. I think it important to find out just what their game is. I don't reckon we can do that while we're in their game with them. Interacting and responding to the balls they hit at us. I think it far better to “disconnect” from them and just observe their game. Much like we’d do watching two Wimbledon finalists trying to win the trophy.

And to say it could have been a lot worse? Like breaking two legs instead of one while skiing? What's the point? Breaking one leg is enough in and of itself.


Bob


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## Dowjones

Bob, it's been over a month already and I have seen a lot from her. She has owned her behavior, and has made no excuses for what happened. She realizes that her medical condition and worry about my reaction and the alcohol left her vulnerable, and she should have come to me, period. She is willing to do whatever is necessary to get a second chance, including IC and has held herself up to public ridicule, jst for the opportunity to talk to me. I don't think she really wants me to f**k other women, she is just trying to show how much she regrets her choice and is ready and willing to givew me total support in anything I choose to do. She said that she will prove every day that she is worthy (her words) and will willingly account for her actions for as long as it takes for her to prove her trustworthiness.


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## Dowjones

RWB, I have hired a PI to look at her computer records and the phones are in my name, so I know she didn't call him, and I have all credit card and checking account records so I don't think that she has another phone. But you are right about keeping my eyes open. I talked again with his wife, last night, and she says that he is spilling his guts to keep her from leaving him, and has given her pretty much the same info as My wife gave me. She is pretty sure that they could not have met for sex more than the one time, it was the first time he had stayed late, since moving to my wife's office. My wife's boss said the same thing.


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> Bob, it's been over a month already and I have seen a lot from her. She has owned her behavior, and has made no excuses for what happened. She realizes that her medical condition and worry about my reaction and the alcohol left her vulnerable, and she should have come to me, period. She is willing to do whatever is necessary to get a second chance, including IC and has held herself up to public ridicule, jst for the opportunity to talk to me. I don't think she really wants me to f**k other women, she is just trying to show how much she regrets her choice and is ready and willing to givew me total support in anything I choose to do. She said that she will prove every day that she is worthy (her words) and will willingly account for her actions for as long as it takes for her to prove her trustworthiness.


Dow, I had an affair early on in my marriage and then went near 40 years faithful to my wife. It can and does happen, I'm proof of that.

I truly wish you all the best and that you both get through it.

Bob


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## MrQuatto

Well, in my opinion, confession goes a very long way. That is the exception and not the rule. You need to take a hard, long look at yourself and decide if you can move on with her from this. If not, then your path is clear. IF you can, counseling is the logical 1st step. Everything else is irrelevant until you decide where to go.

Q~


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## Dowjones

WE met for breakfast, this morning and she basically sobbed and begged the whole time. Truly, I want to believe her, I really do, but it will take time and IDK if I want to invest any more into a cheater. She reinterated that she will do ANYTHING, to rebuild my trust in her and will never have any Friendship with any man , without my knowledge and approval. I am in complete control, so why don't I feel better? The PI called and after checking all of her computer records , he has found nothing out of the ordinary. He says that it would be very difficult for her to have any contact with anyone without some kind of trail . IDK, IDK, IDK. I told her she could come home, and I will monitor her activities (counseling) but I'm making no promises. . I also told her that if I find or hear of anything, even a rumor, even 1 unaccounted for phone cal, we are done. She gave me her laptop and phone and is at her Mom's getting her clothes.


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## Dowjones

I would like to hear from more women, who cheated and reconciled, and get their opinion of her activities, and if she can be trusted..


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## moogvo

How about another guy who was cheated on and reconciled? 

Dow, it sounds from your postings that you want to be able to make it work between the two of you, and you can. I do want to tell you a few things that may be of help.

First, if you let her know that you are at least willing to give it a try, she will likely stop the dramatics and be able to carry on a regular conversation.

having said that, My wife cheated on me, and it was more than one time. She met with the man multiple times and had sex. There were other times of going out to lunch or meeting where she worked and playing kissy-face in the parking lot.

WHen I finally began to suspect that there might be someone else, I asked her about it. (December 19, 2008) She laughed it off and tried to tell me that I was crazy.

I have to take SOME responsibility on myself for the way things went. No, she didn't have to cheat on me, and that was a horrible devastation to me, but at the same time, understand that nobody walks out the front door to go to work with the idea that they might need to find someone for an affair. It is generally a set of circumstances that leads to the infidelity.

In her case, I was spending a LOT of time away from home. See, I am a volunteer firefighter. I was going to my training classes and additionally going to school for my EMT. Other nights, I would be out at my amateur radio club meetings and on the weekends, I would take off to go hang out with friends. So I MIGHT have been home ONE night a week... MAYBE 2 on slow weeks.

There was a guy who was a sales rep to her company. She had to deal with him several times a week as part of her job. Having been in the corporate environment myself, I know how flirting happens and is almost commonplace, but when someone is hurting from something at home, that harmless flirting can actually plant a seed.

Similarly, when there is a problem and you find that co-worker who seems to understand your troubles and you begin to open up to that person, you form a trusting and an emotional bond with that person. As time passes, the conversations get bigger, to the point where there might have to be a lunch shared to get everything talked about... Maybe a short chat in the parking lot after work or over a smoke during break.

The emotional attachment can be strong and come on without any warning, after all, all we were doing was talking about some problems I don't know how to address... Before long, and before anyone notices, even those involved, things go to the point of no return. kissing, passion, sex. Remember, though that this was not plotted or planned, it just went there... Like a car with no brakes.

Eventually, those people really begin to have feelings for each other... the same kind of feelings they originally had for their spouse in the courting phase of their relationship. It happened. It's over now.

While I did not make my wife's decisions for her and force her to do what she did, I do feel some responsibility for the events that led up to the infidelity. Had I given her the time she deserved, Should I have shown her how much our marriage meant to me, Should I have continued to "court" her after the marriage so long ago, I am confident that this never would have happened.

Still, it did - During our arguments, she made comments with respect to my sexuality which made it very uncomfortable for me. When it cam down to having sex, all I would think about were the things she said. (of course, that was all before I found out about the affairs)

If you want to read my detailed story, you can search my username and go back to the oldest posts to read the whole story.

Fast forward almost 2 years later and here is how it has been:

We argued and fought for 3 months after the day of discovery (January 01, 2009 was the day I confirmed my suspicions) I wanted every single sordid and juicy detail. I wanted the when, where, how, why of the situation... Some guys don't want all of that information, but it was imperative for me to know what I was being asked forgiveness for...

It took 3 months to get to the whole truth. There was a day when I was completely satisfied that I knew everything there was to know. It seemed like the sun shone for the first time in 6 months on that day for me.

Sure, there were many many times when I went into private and cried like a baby while looking at our wedding pictures. Once, she caught me and broke down with me. There's nothing wrong with that. It hurts damn bad to be betrayed as such!

I couldn't look at her without thinking about it. To compound matters, she was pregnant and we were unsure whether or not I was the father. It was a complete and utter mess. I will filled to the top with shame and embarrassment. I wanted to kill him for restitution. I wanted someone to pay as much as I was paying.

Time, however, does heal all wounds. It has been nearly 2 years. I am not completely healed, and there will always be a scar on my heart. There was a part of our marriage that was lost that day that I will never get back. Having said that, there are other aspects of our marriage that are better than I could have dreamed. There are feelings that we would have never experienced otherwise.

If it happened again today, I don't think it would hurt me as much as it would anger me. It would certainly not destroy my world the way it did the first time. I also have to say that if it ever happens again, we would go straight to the "Get out" part.

I can report a very happy marriage at this point. I am glad I decided to keep my marriage. It wasn't without a great deal of pain, but it worked out. Our children are happy, we are happy and all seems to be good. I have learned how to be a good husband, and she has become a model wife. She has become humbled and very loving.

At the end of the day, it is ultimately your decision as to whether you reconcile or not, but in order to move forward whether in this relationship or in the next, you will both have to bring closure to this in the very least, else you will be questioning yourself for a long time, as will she. 

If you DO choose to try it out, don't go it alone... Get counseling. Buy a book on the subject and really dig down into why this sort of thing happens in the first place. Perhaps you can start all over from the courtship phase, and this time, don't stop courting one another. Continue to treat each other like you did at the first date. Do this and I promise you will never have another marital problem.

Never let other obligations come between your family. As hard as it is in today's economy, you have to show family that they mean everything to you.

Good luck on this. Please let me know if I can be of help.

Tom


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## Dowjones

Thanks for the reply, Tom. Yes, I would like to be able to get past this, but as yet I don't know if I can. I must say that she has completely owned what she did and has given me all info and most of what she says has already been verified by other sources. I'm fairly confident that there was only one drunken sexual fumble, in his car, and that she ended all contact immediately afterward. I do have a lot of support from both families and maybe I will try. It will take time for me to trust her, and that's the part I'm not sure I can do.


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## moogvo

Trust is a funny thing, Dow. It is so hard to get and so easy to destroy. No, you won't trust her overnight. That will have to be earned over time. It may be the case that you will never fully trust her again. I don't fully trust my wife... I believe that she has learned a lesson and will not do that again, but then again, one never knows.

It is really a hard thing to overcome, and many people can't handle it and wind up splitting up anyway. Some split up a year or more after reconciliation.

By the way, it doesn't make you weak or a "chump" to try to salvage your marriage with her. Not that you said that, but I thought I would throw it out anyway.

If you can't do it, you can't do it. Nobody is going to fault you for that.


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## Initfortheduration

You appear to have two of the most important commitments from her, honesty and transparency. Her contrition seems genuine. Good luck.


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## Dowjones

I am certain that she is genuinely sorry, and from what she has told me and confirmed by the co-worker and his wife, it was never about sex, because the one encounter was very bad ( in a car) and was motivated mostly by alcohol and emotional stress. I still have to get the images out of my mind, which is another problem. Is she worth it? Is "once a cheater always a cheater", true? Our sex life was always super hot, but now I'm not so sure. She swears that she didn't ever desire him, but was caught up in her despair over her lack of fertility, and drank way too much. What to believe?


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## Tanelornpete

> I am certain that she is genuinely sorry, and from what she has told me and confirmed by the co-worker and his wife, it was never about sex, because the one encounter was very bad ( in a car) and was motivated mostly by alcohol and emotional stress. I still have to get the images out of my mind, which is another problem. Is she worth it? Is "once a cheater always a cheater", true? Our sex life was always super hot, but now I'm not so sure. She swears that she didn't ever desire him, but was caught up in her despair over her lack of fertility, and drank way too much. What to believe?


Dow, I've read through your entire thread and I'd like to add some small comment of my own. I'd also like to point out some issues that seem to be standing in your way. You've gotten some absolutely horrible advice on here, and while I do realize, and completely support, the notion that all people are free to voice their opinions, it is my hope that you'll at least try to glean some truth out of all of this.

First: "Is 'once a cheater always a cheater," true? 

That is a "complex question" (logical fallacy) but the short answer is 'no'. A longer answer is that ANY ONE can fall for the perils of infidelity, It is not a unique character flaw that only some people have. We all have that same flaw. It is indicative of a basic fact of human nature: people make bad decisions, and quite often make those decisions because _at the time_ they seem to be the best possible option. Don't be swayed by people who try to arguer that 'they would never do such a thing'. Those people fall faster than a bag of rocks. Pride comes before a fall.

Re: "it was never about sex." Just to make it clear, most women do not get involved in affairs 'just to have sex' - in fact, most _people_ do not get involved in affairs 'just for the sex.' If anything, men are much more likely to do so than women, but in my experience, there is only a slight difference. 

But even more importantly - as far as I'm concerned, the question of sex is nearly irrelevant. The question that should be asked is "why did the affair happen" not "what did you do during the affair." The fact that an affair occurred is the issue - and as far as I can tell, this question has not been resolved.

Most affairs do not happen in a vacuum. Very, very, VERY few people have affairs just to be cheating. Very, very, VERY few people have affairs in order to harm their partner. Affairs occur because they seem to be the best solution to a perceived or real problem. 

Now I'd like to point something out:

You write: "...She swears that she didn't ever desire him, but was caught up in her despair over her lack of fertility, and drank way too much..." as if this was a one night stand - and yet you write elsewhere that this was a one month affair with one sexual encounter. So which is it? A one night stand, or a one month affair. If it was more than just that one moment, then why spend much time concentrating on that single issue - why ignore the elephant sitting on the couch because a guest is double-dipping? Don't get caught up in minutia when the bigger problem is there: why did the affair happen.

I know there are people who will advise you that they don't buy the '...I must have done something wrong...' notion - as if the entire fault of the affair is laid solely upon the loyal spouse if you do so. 

The notion of disavowing this idea is fallacious: no one blames the loyal spouse for the action of the disloyal one: every human being is solely responsible for their own actions. They make the choice and act. They could easily choose another path. The disavowal is a conclusion based upon a misunderstanding of what is being said. 

Moreover, this does not negate the FACT that there are issues in the marriage that create the environment in which the temptation to turn to another person exists! You did not 'make' you wife cheat (newsflash: you don't 'make' anyone do anything - it is ALWAYS a choice to act) - but you are an equal member in a marriage in which an affair happened. In your marriage - as in any where an affair happens, something is wrong, and unless that gets fixed, the marriage is essentially doomed. 



> ...I have been very busy and maybe that was part of the problem, but I do know that if she had told me about her medical issues, I would have been receptive. I have been working full time and finishing my degree work for my masters, in preparation for us having children. Sometimes I'm gone from home 18 hours a day, I have worked myself to the point of exhaustion, for her, for us, and she f**ked another guy. How can I trust her? Why should I? My Mom and Dad and her parents have talked to me and told me that she is having thoughts of suicide, and is only waiting for a kind word from me. But what about me? Did I deserve this? I WANT MY FAITHFUL WIFE BACK!!! Not the cheater I seem to have married.


I realize that this may have been a vent: but there are some very revealing things here. I wish to ask a simple question: you declare that you don't deserve what happened to you. Maybe not. But what if your wife were to cry out "He is gone ALL the time - he never wants to be around me, he is ALWAYS tied up in his work. I don't deserve this! I want the man who spent time with me back!"

Would you discredit this as unappreciative of her? Would you discount this as less important than your needs and wants? Would you delegate her desire to secondary importance because YOU have determined what must be? I have news for you. Until you understand what you wife needs to feel loved, you will not get the love you claim you deserve. If you simply throw away her worries and concerns because they contradict your plans - then your marriage will fail. And that _won't_ be her fault!

An analogy (I've written this a number of times before - simply looking over relevant threads on this site would be quite helpful!): 

I spend my time washing the car, changing the oil, weeding the yard, and keeping the house clean. And I say to myself "look how much effort I put into showing my wife I love her!" 

My wife sends me cards, puts a candy on my pillow each night, and hugs me whenever I walk into the room. She tells herself "look how romantic I am! Look how often I do little smoochy things that tell him how much I love him!"

And I am getting more and more frustrated: I see that the vacuum hasn't been used, the trash is piling up - and besides - the bills haven't been paid - looks like I'll have to go over the books myself AGAIN this month!

And my wife is getting more and more frustrated because I don't want to watch 'Lost' with her, I don't take her to dinner, and I rarely if ever compliment her looks!

We both spend most of the day wondering why our spouse does not love us - and get angry because they are not responding to all the love we show them

The problem is quite obvious: each if us has different ways of expressing love - and we have different things that mean love to us - and _unless we understand what those things are_ our marriage grows more and more cold.

And lo - along comes a man who DOES seem to do the things that my wife appreciates: and what happens????​
Marriage takes work, it does not happen automatically, magically. There is no perfect relationship - and yet there is the reality that you committed to _this_ one. Are you willing to live by your word, or are you going to do what is fairly common nowadays: run when things get tough?

Find out if your wife is willing to work on your marriage. Determine if YOU have the ability to work at your commitment when the 'worse' of that 'better or worse' clause comes along.

And if the answer is 'yes' to both - then let me know. There are deliberate and useful steps you can take that can turn things around in a very short time. You can find the evidence all over this site.


----------



## Dowjones

To answer your first question, I misspoke, my wife has had contact with the co-worker for a month, there was only one sexual encounter, and she confessed it the next day.


----------



## Dowjones

To all, I went back and re-read my posts and discovered that I'm more out of it than I thought. The affair was 3 months ago, we've been MARRIED for 6 years. Sorry but I'm just a veg. Too many things to think about, too many decisions to make, too much pain to deal with. I really need help and I'm unsure where I can get it. I have put my Grad program on "hold", until I am able to concentrate on it, and my boss has been a real champ. He has given me carte-blanche to go and come as I need to, as long as my accounts are covered.


----------



## Dowjones

Tanelornpete said:


> Dow, I've read through your entire thread and I'd like to add some small comment of my own. I'd also like to point out some issues that seem to be standing in your way. You've gotten some absolutely horrible advice on here, and while I do realize, and completely support, the notion that all people are free to voice their opinions, it is my hope that you'll at least try to glean some truth out of all of this.
> 
> First: "Is 'once a cheater always a cheater," true?
> 
> That is a "complex question" (logical fallacy) but the short answer is 'no'. A longer answer is that ANY ONE can fall for the perils of infidelity, It is not a unique character flaw that only some people have. We all have that same flaw. It is indicative of a basic fact of human nature: people make bad decisions, and quite often make those decisions because _at the time_ they seem to be the best possible option. Don't be swayed by people who try to arguer that 'they would never do such a thing'. Those people fall faster than a bag of rocks. Pride comes before a fall.
> 
> Re: "it was never about sex." Just to make it clear, most women do not get involved in affairs 'just to have sex' - in fact, most _people_ do not get involved in affairs 'just for the sex.' If anything, men are much more likely to do so than women, but in my experience, there is only a slight difference.
> 
> But even more importantly - as far as I'm concerned, the question of sex is nearly irrelevant. The question that should be asked is "why did the affair happen" not "what did you do during the affair." The fact that an affair occurred is the issue - and as far as I can tell, this question has not been resolved.
> 
> Most affairs do not happen in a vacuum. Very, very, VERY few people have affairs just to be cheating. Very, very, VERY few people have affairs in order to harm their partner. Affairs occur because they seem to be the best solution to a perceived or real problem.
> 
> Now I'd like to point something out:
> 
> You write: "...She swears that she didn't ever desire him, but was caught up in her despair over her lack of fertility, and drank way too much..." as if this was a one night stand - and yet you write elsewhere that this was a one month affair with one sexual encounter. So which is it? A one night stand, or a one month affair. If it was more than just that one moment, then why spend much time concentrating on that single issue - why ignore the elephant sitting on the couch because a guest is double-dipping? Don't get caught up in minutia when the bigger problem is there: why did the affair happen.
> 
> I know there are people who will advise you that they don't buy the '...I must have done something wrong...' notion - as if the entire fault of the affair is laid solely upon the loyal spouse if you do so.
> 
> The notion of disavowing this idea is fallacious: no one blames the loyal spouse for the action of the disloyal one: every human being is solely responsible for their own actions. They make the choice and act. They could easily choose another path. The disavowal is a conclusion based upon a misunderstanding of what is being said.
> 
> Moreover, this does not negate the FACT that there are issues in the marriage that create the environment in which the temptation to turn to another person exists! You did not 'make' you wife cheat (newsflash: you don't 'make' anyone do anything - it is ALWAYS a choice to act) - but you are an equal member in a marriage in which an affair happened. In your marriage - as in any where an affair happens, something is wrong, and unless that gets fixed, the marriage is essentially doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> I realize that this may have been a vent: but there are some very revealing things here. I wish to ask a simple question: you declare that you don't deserve what happened to you. Maybe not. But what if your wife were to cry out "He is gone ALL the time - he never wants to be around me, he is ALWAYS tied up in his work. I don't deserve this! I want the man who spent time with me back!"
> 
> Would you discredit this as unappreciative of her? Would you discount this as less important than your needs and wants? Would you delegate her desire to secondary importance because YOU have determined what must be? I have news for you. Until you understand what you wife needs to feel loved, you will not get the love you claim you deserve. If you simply throw away her worries and concerns because they contradict your plans - then your marriage will fail. And that _won't_ be her fault!
> 
> An analogy (I've written this a number of times before - simply looking over relevant threads on this site would be quite helpful!):
> 
> I spend my time washing the car, changing the oil, weeding the yard, and keeping the house clean. And I say to myself "look how much effort I put into showing my wife I love her!"
> 
> My wife sends me cards, puts a candy on my pillow each night, and hugs me whenever I walk into the room. She tells herself "look how romantic I am! Look how often I do little smoochy things that tell him how much I love him!"
> 
> And I am getting more and more frustrated: I see that the vacuum hasn't been used, the trash is piling up - and besides - the bills haven't been paid - looks like I'll have to go over the books myself AGAIN this month!
> 
> And my wife is getting more and more frustrated because I don't want to watch 'Lost' with her, I don't take her to dinner, and I rarely if ever compliment her looks!
> 
> We both spend most of the day wondering why our spouse does not love us - and get angry because they are not responding to all the love we show them
> 
> The problem is quite obvious: each if us has different ways of expressing love - and we have different things that mean love to us - and _unless we understand what those things are_ our marriage grows more and more cold.
> 
> And lo - along comes a man who DOES seem to do the things that my wife appreciates: and what happens????​
> Marriage takes work, it does not happen automatically, magically. There is no perfect relationship - and yet there is the reality that you committed to _this_ one. Are you willing to live by your word, or are you going to do what is fairly common nowadays: run when things get tough?
> 
> Find out if your wife is willing to work on your marriage. Determine if YOU have the ability to work at your commitment when the 'worse' of that 'better or worse' clause comes along.
> 
> And if the answer is 'yes' to both - then let me know. There are deliberate and useful steps you can take that can turn things around in a very short time. You can find the evidence all over this site.


Thanks Pete, but you're off base on that last part. We knew that I would be gone from home for long periods and she agreed with it, or at least she SEEMED OK with it. It was only to last until I had completed Grad school (in December) and then I would be given a substantial raise and we could begin trying to get pregnant. I think that because we have talked about a family so much, that when she found out she couldn't conceive, it frightened her. She needed to talk to somebody, she was scared to tell me, so she began talking to her co-worker who had been through much the same thing. Jeez, here I am defending her, and she is a unfaithful ****. I loved her so much and always had faith in her. I would never have believed she would get drunk and screw someone else, I don't think she believed it would ever happen, either. She is so full of self -loathing, and fear, and horrible remorse, that I worry she could do herself a mischief. No, she's not a ****, she's my baby and I want her back. She is totally distraught, and hasn't been able to eat or sleep, and neither have I . I never let her see me cry, even when my heart breaks for us. I'm rambling again. I don't know what to do.


----------



## Tanelornpete

> Thanks Pete, but you're off base on that last part.


Ok, so I am really confused here. You say I am way off base on that last part - and the last part is:

"...Find out if your wife is willing to work on your marriage. Determine if YOU have the ability to work at your commitment when the 'worse' of that 'better or worse' clause comes along.

And if the answer is 'yes' to both - then let me know. There are deliberate and useful steps you can take that can turn things around in a very short time. You can find the evidence all over this site...."

I am not sure how that could be 'off base' - that is the _framework_ of how we help people recover from the pain of affairs. If you have a better way, please let me know! I've been in the marriage coaching field for quite a while and I am always willing to find new ways to help me help others...



> I think that because we have talked about a family so much, that when she found out she couldn't conceive, it frightened her. She needed to talk to somebody, she was scared to tell me, so she began talking to her co-worker who had been through much the same thing. Jeez, here I am defending her, and she is a unfaithful ****.


_You would be a terrible husband if you did not defend her._ But I am deeply concerned that you would be so willing to call her names. That kind of willingness is also indicative of issues that are somewhere hidden in your relationship that I am sure she can sense. From where I sit, I see your wife in an entirely different light:

You planned on having children, and then found out you could not. She was frightened - and for some reason she was afraid to tell you (and I'd bet that right there points to a main trouble area in your marriage. Ask yourself - WHY WOULD SHE BE SCARED? What does that say about your relationship?) She did relate it to a co-worker who had been through similar experiences. This is understandable and not necessarily wrong. However, she grew too close to this co-worker. This is where things get problematic. She found that he was filling a need that she felt or perceived. The100,000$ question is why weren't you filling this need? What came to pass that it came from him instead? 

But that's beside the point: you called her "a unfaithful ****. What I see is a woman who made a mistake, and caught herself - and came to her husband and told him. That is a rare quality in a modern woman (ask the men around here whose wives have cheated on them!) And you completely dismiss her bravery, courage and honesty, and would rather dwell on the action she confessed! In fact, you did so to the point that you threw her out without a second thought. Be glad that God did not treat you that way! 

So I see a brave, honest woman who made a mistake and took responsibility, and a man who won't forgive, and seems to be willing to live with anger instead. 

So, I am way off base. Interesting! I pointed out that I suspect that your 'love languages' are entirely different from one another. I pointed out an area that ALWAYS causes problems in marriage (one spouse absent for extended periods) - and I even suspected that you would dismiss this. I have little invested in your relationship. You aren't paying me for my services, and you didn't ask for my advice: it is your to freely accept or dismiss. There is no reason for me to try to sway you one way or the other. In fact, if you took the time to investigate my work on this site - or checked out our website, you'd see that my sole interest is in saving marriages. I know how to do it.

You close with this:



> She is so full of self -loathing, and fear, and horrible remorse, that I worry she could do herself a mischief. No, she's not a ****, she's my baby and I want her back. She is totally distraught, and hasn't been able to eat or sleep, and neither have I . I never let her see me cry, even when my heart breaks for us. I'm rambling again. I don't know what to do.


Please beware, I intend to get a bit tough here. Sometimes the best quick cure is a slap in the face. (We call it a 2x4).

I suspect you do know what to do. I also suspect that you simply don't want to do what you know you should. You mention that you are a member in a church. I assume this is a Christian organization. If so, you have a complete guide to how to deal with human behavior, and how a husband would deal with his wife. Are you prepared to take those actions? If not, why not?

Do you have any idea how many men on this site would LOVE to have a wife who came to them, confessed that they had done wrong, knowing that there might be horrible consequences? How many men would love to have a wife who respected them that much?

Yet you come to this website, and call your wife names, in public! How does this show any kind of love or respect? How can you be surprised that she is totally distraught? She came to you, and you threw her out. What is the likelyhood in the future that she will come to you again if there is a problem? 

Of COURSE she is totally distraught! Of COURSE she can't eat or sleep! This is highly traumatic, and you are doing NOTHING to help her through it! Make up your mind. Get off the pity pot and plan what you are going to do. Either divorce her, or work with her on the marriage. Quit stalling and relishing all your pain and misery. Be a man and do the right thing. Forgive her and then...

...work on your marriage. It was so far gone that an affair happened. Unless you get that fixed, your marriage is doomed.


----------



## AFEH

Different spouses respond differently to the same scenario. One spouse has a medical problem and talks to her husband about it. The other spouse has the same medical problem and cheats on her husband.

The husband is the same man. What’s the difference? The spouses.

Bob




Tanelornpete said:


> Dow, I've read through your entire thread and I'd like to add some small comment of my own. I'd also like to point out some issues that seem to be standing in your way. You've gotten some absolutely horrible advice on here, and while I do realize, and completely support, the notion that all people are free to voice their opinions, it is my hope that you'll at least try to glean some truth out of all of this.
> 
> First: "Is 'once a cheater always a cheater," true?
> 
> That is a "complex question" (logical fallacy) but the short answer is 'no'. A longer answer is that ANY ONE can fall for the perils of infidelity, It is not a unique character flaw that only some people have. We all have that same flaw. It is indicative of a basic fact of human nature: people make bad decisions, and quite often make those decisions because _at the time_ they seem to be the best possible option. Don't be swayed by people who try to arguer that 'they would never do such a thing'. Those people fall faster than a bag of rocks. Pride comes before a fall.
> 
> Re: "it was never about sex." Just to make it clear, most women do not get involved in affairs 'just to have sex' - in fact, most _people_ do not get involved in affairs 'just for the sex.' If anything, men are much more likely to do so than women, but in my experience, there is only a slight difference.
> 
> But even more importantly - as far as I'm concerned, the question of sex is nearly irrelevant. The question that should be asked is "why did the affair happen" not "what did you do during the affair." The fact that an affair occurred is the issue - and as far as I can tell, this question has not been resolved.
> 
> Most affairs do not happen in a vacuum. Very, very, VERY few people have affairs just to be cheating. Very, very, VERY few people have affairs in order to harm their partner. Affairs occur because they seem to be the best solution to a perceived or real problem.
> 
> Now I'd like to point something out:
> 
> You write: "...She swears that she didn't ever desire him, but was caught up in her despair over her lack of fertility, and drank way too much..." as if this was a one night stand - and yet you write elsewhere that this was a one month affair with one sexual encounter. So which is it? A one night stand, or a one month affair. If it was more than just that one moment, then why spend much time concentrating on that single issue - why ignore the elephant sitting on the couch because a guest is double-dipping? Don't get caught up in minutia when the bigger problem is there: why did the affair happen.
> 
> I know there are people who will advise you that they don't buy the '...I must have done something wrong...' notion - as if the entire fault of the affair is laid solely upon the loyal spouse if you do so.
> 
> The notion of disavowing this idea is fallacious: no one blames the loyal spouse for the action of the disloyal one: every human being is solely responsible for their own actions. They make the choice and act. They could easily choose another path. The disavowal is a conclusion based upon a misunderstanding of what is being said.
> 
> Moreover, this does not negate the FACT that there are issues in the marriage that create the environment in which the temptation to turn to another person exists! You did not 'make' you wife cheat (newsflash: you don't 'make' anyone do anything - it is ALWAYS a choice to act) - but you are an equal member in a marriage in which an affair happened. In your marriage - as in any where an affair happens, something is wrong, and unless that gets fixed, the marriage is essentially doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> I realize that this may have been a vent: but there are some very revealing things here. I wish to ask a simple question: you declare that you don't deserve what happened to you. Maybe not. But what if your wife were to cry out "He is gone ALL the time - he never wants to be around me, he is ALWAYS tied up in his work. I don't deserve this! I want the man who spent time with me back!"
> 
> Would you discredit this as unappreciative of her? Would you discount this as less important than your needs and wants? Would you delegate her desire to secondary importance because YOU have determined what must be? I have news for you. Until you understand what you wife needs to feel loved, you will not get the love you claim you deserve. If you simply throw away her worries and concerns because they contradict your plans - then your marriage will fail. And that _won't_ be her fault!
> 
> An analogy (I've written this a number of times before - simply looking over relevant threads on this site would be quite helpful!):
> 
> I spend my time washing the car, changing the oil, weeding the yard, and keeping the house clean. And I say to myself "look how much effort I put into showing my wife I love her!"
> 
> My wife sends me cards, puts a candy on my pillow each night, and hugs me whenever I walk into the room. She tells herself "look how romantic I am! Look how often I do little smoochy things that tell him how much I love him!"
> 
> And I am getting more and more frustrated: I see that the vacuum hasn't been used, the trash is piling up - and besides - the bills haven't been paid - looks like I'll have to go over the books myself AGAIN this month!
> 
> And my wife is getting more and more frustrated because I don't want to watch 'Lost' with her, I don't take her to dinner, and I rarely if ever compliment her looks!
> 
> We both spend most of the day wondering why our spouse does not love us - and get angry because they are not responding to all the love we show them
> 
> The problem is quite obvious: each if us has different ways of expressing love - and we have different things that mean love to us - and _unless we understand what those things are_ our marriage grows more and more cold.
> 
> And lo - along comes a man who DOES seem to do the things that my wife appreciates: and what happens????​
> Marriage takes work, it does not happen automatically, magically. There is no perfect relationship - and yet there is the reality that you committed to _this_ one. Are you willing to live by your word, or are you going to do what is fairly common nowadays: run when things get tough?
> 
> Find out if your wife is willing to work on your marriage. Determine if YOU have the ability to work at your commitment when the 'worse' of that 'better or worse' clause comes along.
> 
> And if the answer is 'yes' to both - then let me know. There are deliberate and useful steps you can take that can turn things around in a very short time. You can find the evidence all over this site.


----------



## LuvMyH

I think the fact that she confessed to cheating the very next day says volumes about your wife. She is probably a pretty honest person. 

What I am wondering is why she was strong enough to come to you with that, but was afraid to talk to you about infertility problems? I am absolutely not trying to blame you, but could it be that she thought you would see her as flawed or defective? Do you expect everything to be perfect in your life? How do you react when it's not?

Sure, some people are just low-life immoral cheaters, but that doesn't sound like your wife. Not with the details in your case. Like Tanelorn says, she made a mistake. Instead of wasting energy focussing on that, try to look at what was going on in your marriage at the time. If you want your baby back, you're going to have to make improvements in your marriage to make it a happy place for the both of you. Lay down your ego. (Shout out to StillinShock-lol)

You can get through this if you choose to do so. It sounds like your wife has poured out her heart to you- the ball's in your court. You have the right to end the marriage. You also have the right to give her another chance, but you have to do it with love and compassion- not name calling and punishment. 

I know it hurts and I also know about the not eating and sleeping. You can't think straight when you're like that. I hope you start to feel better soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFEH

You’re ok Dow. You are a good Man. You’ve seriously unexpected ****e to go through and it’s very much an unexpected Journey in your life.

For me I wish you weren’t thrown so very far off course. But you have been and it’s “real”.

You will re-stabilise and get back on even keel. It will happen because that’s who you are.

Big. Very big decision for you. I know you know.

Do you take your wife on your journey through life? Or do you drop her?

Bob


----------



## AFEH

In my reckoning you owe Dow one massive appology.

Bob



Tanelornpete said:


> Ok, so I am really confused here. You say I am way off base on that last part - and the last part is:
> 
> "...Find out if your wife is willing to work on your marriage. Determine if YOU have the ability to work at your commitment when the 'worse' of that 'better or worse' clause comes along.
> 
> And if the answer is 'yes' to both - then let me know. There are deliberate and useful steps you can take that can turn things around in a very short time. You can find the evidence all over this site...."
> 
> I am not sure how that could be 'off base' - that is the _framework_ of how we help people recover from the pain of affairs. If you have a better way, please let me know! I've been in the marriage coaching field for quite a while and I am always willing to find new ways to help me help others...
> 
> 
> 
> _You would be a terrible husband if you did not defend her._ But I am deeply concerned that you would be so willing to call her names. That kind of willingness is also indicative of issues that are somewhere hidden in your relationship that I am sure she can sense. From where I sit, I see your wife in an entirely different light:
> 
> You planned on having children, and then found out you could not. She was frightened - and for some reason she was afraid to tell you (and I'd bet that right there points to a main trouble area in your marriage. Ask yourself - WHY WOULD SHE BE SCARED? What does that say about your relationship?) She did relate it to a co-worker who had been through similar experiences. This is understandable and not necessarily wrong. However, she grew too close to this co-worker. This is where things get problematic. She found that he was filling a need that she felt or perceived. The100,000$ question is why weren't you filling this need? What came to pass that it came from him instead?
> 
> But that's beside the point: you called her "a unfaithful ****. What I see is a woman who made a mistake, and caught herself - and came to her husband and told him. That is a rare quality in a modern woman (ask the men around here whose wives have cheated on them!) And you completely dismiss her bravery, courage and honesty, and would rather dwell on the action she confessed! In fact, you did so to the point that you threw her out without a second thought. Be glad that God did not treat you that way!
> 
> So I see a brave, honest woman who made a mistake and took responsibility, and a man who won't forgive, and seems to be willing to live with anger instead.
> 
> So, I am way off base. Interesting! I pointed out that I suspect that your 'love languages' are entirely different from one another. I pointed out an area that ALWAYS causes problems in marriage (one spouse absent for extended periods) - and I even suspected that you would dismiss this. I have little invested in your relationship. You aren't paying me for my services, and you didn't ask for my advice: it is your to freely accept or dismiss. There is no reason for me to try to sway you one way or the other. In fact, if you took the time to investigate my work on this site - or checked out our website, you'd see that my sole interest is in saving marriages. I know how to do it.
> 
> You close with this:
> 
> 
> 
> Please beware, I intend to get a bit tough here. Sometimes the best quick cure is a slap in the face. (We call it a 2x4).
> 
> I suspect you do know what to do. I also suspect that you simply don't want to do what you know you should. You mention that you are a member in a church. I assume this is a Christian organization. If so, you have a complete guide to how to deal with human behavior, and how a husband would deal with his wife. Are you prepared to take those actions? If not, why not?
> 
> Do you have any idea how many men on this site would LOVE to have a wife who came to them, confessed that they had done wrong, knowing that there might be horrible consequences? How many men would love to have a wife who respected them that much?
> 
> Yet you come to this website, and call your wife names, in public! How does this show any kind of love or respect? How can you be surprised that she is totally distraught? She came to you, and you threw her out. What is the likelyhood in the future that she will come to you again if there is a problem?
> 
> Of COURSE she is totally distraught! Of COURSE she can't eat or sleep! This is highly traumatic, and you are doing NOTHING to help her through it! Make up your mind. Get off the pity pot and plan what you are going to do. Either divorce her, or work with her on the marriage. Quit stalling and relishing all your pain and misery. Be a man and do the right thing. Forgive her and then...
> 
> ...work on your marriage. It was so far gone that an affair happened. Unless you get that fixed, your marriage is doomed.


----------



## Tanelornpete

> In my reckoning you owe Dow one massive appology.
> 
> Bob


I always apologize when I am wrong.


----------



## AFEH

Tanelornpete said:


> I always apologize when I am wrong.


Oh deary me a double wammy.


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## OhGeesh

My argument is no one is perfect, but it is not always something the BS is doing wrong that causes the affair!!!!!!!!!

I know plenty of guys (can't speak for women I'm told they are out there though) that cheat for sex just something different and fun. Guys that have ZERO intentions of ever leaving and also have no intention of ever being faithful either. No different then doing drugs, getting drunk, it's a high its real it's fun.

I'm not saying the case here wasn't a disconnect maybe there was, but for me, if I cheat it's not because of my awesome wife! It's because I gave in to a temptation for something new and different for that rush! That's why I DON'T go on trips alone. We've talked about what would cause me/her to have a affair. For me its being drunk, alone, around women, so I don't allow myself in those situations often. That's a deep trait I don't want to resurface! 

I pray that day never comes that it does!


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## AFEH

Blaming the victim doesn’t help anyone. Especially the victim who’s come on here looking for help and support.

It’s like blaming a woman for being raped. Blaming an old lady for a burglar breaking into her home, roughing her up and robbing her. Blaming a wife for her husband giving her a broken nose. Blaming the husband for his wife’s affair etc. etc.

Sure, victims all have one thing in common. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and sometimes with the wrong people.

Victims though do “learn”. The raped woman learns to carry a pepper spray to defend herself. The old lady moves into a sheltered home or fits a burglar alarm. The physically abused wife gets a restraining order on her husband. The cheated on husband monitors his wife’s behaviour.

The victims already been abused. Sometimes horrendously. But to blame them and abuse them further. What’s the point in that?

Bob


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## Affaircare

AFEH said:


> Blaming the victim doesn’t help anyone. Especially the victim who’s come on here looking for help and support....
> 
> The victims already been abused. Sometimes horrendously. But to blame them and abuse them further. What’s the point in that?


Actually if you don't mind, I'd be happy to answer your question AFEH, and my hope is that it may make sense to the original poster, WhyMe. 

I think you are taking a couple terms here and assuming that they mean the same thing, and they don't. You are assuming that the 'Loyal Spouse' is the same as a 'victim.' Usually I think people think of a 'victim' as an unfortunate person who suffers from some adverse circumstance through no fault of their own. Thus a person who is raped (male or female) would be closer to a 'victim' because even if someone did dress provocatively or drink too much, that does not give the rapist the right to sexually assault the 'victim.' 

What I would suggest is that usually/often a 'Loyal Spouse' is not a 'victim' when a marriage breaks down to the point that an affair occurs. Here's why I suggest that: very, very often the 'Loyal Spouse' and the 'Disloyal Spouse' have both been unwittingly, unknowingly contributing to the break down of the relationship. Please note that AT NO TIME do I ever suggest that the 'Loyal Spouse' is responsible or "to blame" for the Disloyal Spouse's choice to have an affair. That is 100% on the shoulders of the Disloyal Spouse and it is horrifyingly destructive!

What I do say is that prior to the affair, both parties were engaging in activities that contributed to vulnerability to an affair. Now, when a 'Loyal Spouse' comes to this site, we could give them the "Awwww poor you" treatment and act as if they were the victim, as you suggest, but that would encourage blame, vengeance and punishment against the Disloyal Spouse and would not encourage rebuilding and reconciliation. This would not make the 'Loyal Spouse' a better human or spouse, so yes it might temporarily feel like people are "on their side" being supportive but in the longer run, bigger picture it would not help either the person or the marriage recover! 

Sometimes the truth is hard to hear. Not all truth is roses and sunshine and someone else's fault. Furthermore, even if it is 100% the Disloyal Spouse's fault, the 'Loyal Spouse' can not change someone else. You can not "make" anyone else do anything! The only person you can change or make do something different is YOU, and so we address the person who's here...not the wrong's their spouse may or may not have done. (If their spouse came on here, then what they did would be addresses with them). 

In this instance, there are several things that WhyMe said that I believe are pertinent to the discussion--things that are often overlooked in the rush to be supportive and tell the person they are a 'victim' and agree they've been 'abused.' 

Did you notice, for example, that WhyMe mentioned his wife was scared to tell him about her infertility? He said she was "...terrified to tell me she could not have children." Those are his words--that's his word choice: scared and terrified. Now, you tell me, doesn't that raise a little red flag for you? Why would a woman, a wife, be *afraid* to tell the man who supposedly loves her ... anything? In a marriage, your spouse is supposed to be the one person in the world who truly and deeply knows you and to whom you are safe telling anything especially if it is the truth, and yet this lady is TERRIFIED and SCARED. 

So this begs the question, in my mind, why is your wife afraid? I think we have another clue when we look at how WhyMe has been responding to this whole incident! In the very first post, WhyMe says that his wife confessed a short affair with a co-worker. Now don't get me wrong--hearing that the one you love has betrayed you is earth-shattering news. But you know what? She had the courage to turn to him, not harden her heart, do the right thing, and admit something she had done wrong. Put yourself in her shoes one moment--you have made a very, VERY bad mistake, and you decide to do the right thing. You go to your spouse knowing the mistake is extremely bad, and give them the respect of being honest even though it's not good. What sort of response might you hope for? 

Based on WhyMe's response I believe we can somewhat deduce why she's afraid! He immediately dumped her and refused to even speak to her for more than a month! He went and "roughed up" the OM. Despite her taking the right steps of telling the truth at work, quitting her job, and ending all contact, he continues complaining even to the point of calling her a profane name (as demonstrated by the profanity filter putting in stars). 

Our job here is not to coddle him; our job is to help he see what he may need to address in his own life so he becomes a better man and person--thus rebuilding a new, stronger marriage. It just can NOT return to "the way it was" because the way it was damaged his wife! He participated in this prior to the affair, so as a participant he is not a 'victim.' 

So we could go your way--tell him he's a helpless 'victim' and she's an evil sl*t from h*ll who did it to him, poor guy. OR we can do it our way and actually show him that if he were to address his anger issues, address that his behavior makes his own wife afraid of him, address the fact that he left her 18 hours a day and she felt lonely, address that he based his life on children and she couldn't give him children...that would give her a basis to believe things could be different and safe for her and she then would be likely to join him in facing her own issues (and she even mentioned she had low self-esteem). Our way actually repairs and strengthens the marriage, rebuilding a stronger and healthier one with stronger and healthier individuals.


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## Dowjones

Tanelorn, you have made some sweeping assumptions about me and my marriage that are both insulting and incorrect. I asked her the very same questions. She was terrified, not that I would abuse her, because that has never and will never happen. She was terrified , because in her words. I would be horribly disappointed (true), I had worked so hard (also true) and she has self -esteem problems that make it hard for her to deal with un-pleasant events (true again). You positively praise her for her "bravery, honesty and respect (for me)", but all of these praiseworthy actions happened AFTER the fact of her betrayal, but that's fine with you, you go on to blame ME and vilify me, and YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME! So what does that say about YOU , big-shot marriage fixer!! If all you are going to do is crucify me, then stay off my thread, I don't need you nor your "advice".


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## Dowjones

A brief up-date........I took my wife out to dinner Sat. night, we went to a restaurant that we used to go to , when we were dating. We ate, we talked and then we danced and it was nice. I have decided to let her come home for a while, to see if the two of us can get a grip on this situation. She told me that she was completely mine to do with as I choose, and that she will NEVER give me reason to suspect her faithfulness, love and loyalty again. I am going to try to take her at her word, just this once. If I ever suspect she has , in any way lied, or even attempted to evade or hide anything, she will be out , for good, and she is OK with these conditions. My eyes will always be open. I also told her that if she had not come clean and given me ALL of the facts, there would have been no chance at reconciliation, and if there is anything else she should tell me now. She said that I knew all there was to know , but that she would always communicate any issues, to me , and nobody else. I'm going to do my best by her, but I don't know if I'll ever feel as I did before this happened, and that's what I worry about , the most. Thanks to all of you , who took the time to help me find my way in un-familiar territory. Tanelorn and your alter-ego (stress on the ego) affaircare, your pompous attitude and lack of compassion for the betrayed spouse, is very offensive, it's a wonder you have "helped", anybody at all.


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## Dowjones

I would still like to hear from women , who have strayed and reconciled. Your stories might be valuable to me, to help get over the immediate images and anxiety.


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## Affaircare

It's a shame you've taken this attitude, Dow, for what you don't realize is that I'm not Tanelorn--I am his wife, and you specifically asked for women to reply and for women to reply who were once unfaithful. 

I am a woman.

I was once the loyal spouse, so I know how that feels AND I did have the courage to look at myself and my actions...and change. 

I was once unfaithful so I also know how that feels AND I did have the courage to end all contact, change my thoughts, and reconcile. 

And sadly, if the attitude you are showing now is the attitude you had shown me when I came to you to ask for forgiveness, I would have hardened my heart to you. What you have failed to see in your victimhood is that I was speaking to you honestly and out of love in hopes that you'd see what you can do to get your marriage back. 

I wish you all the best--good luck!


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## Dowjones

Well affaircare, If your his wife, then tell me what YOU did to regain your Husbands trust. Don't start blaming me , when You don't even know me. MY wife came to me, and WE are going to try to see if re-connection is possible. It would NOT have been possible if she HADN'T been up-front about it. So in that respect you have a point, but to come here and try to maintain that I'm some kind of lousy husband, because I'm un-decided about taking back a wife who cheated, and to praise her and vilify me, is both insulting and very un-professional. And yes, In my opinion, you BOTH owe me an apology for your rude behavior.


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## Tanelornpete

> So in that respect you have a point, but to come here and try to maintain that I'm some kind of lousy husband, because I'm un-decided about taking back a wife who cheated, and to praise her and vilify me, is both insulting and very un-professional. And yes, In my opinion, you BOTH owe me an apology for your rude behavior.


A) No one - not a single person, on this thread, at all, has declared you to be a lousy husband. Not a single person. Perhaps if you looked over ALL the posts written to you and delineate SPECIFIC instances where anything was written in a way that makes such a judgment, I'd be willing to consider it. As it stands, there has been no such claim, no such charge, and most certainly no such inference.

B) The fact that you are 'un-decided' about taking back a wife that cheated is the EXACT reason I wrote the part that you declared was 'off base': 


"...Marriage takes work, it does not happen automatically, magically. There is no perfect relationship - and yet there is the reality that you committed to this one. Are you willing to live by your word, or are you going to do what is fairly common nowadays: run when things get tough?

Find out if your wife is willing to work on your marriage. Determine if YOU have the ability to work at your commitment when the 'worse' of that 'better or worse' clause comes along.

And if the answer is 'yes' to both - then let me know. There are deliberate and useful steps you can take that can turn things around in a very short time. You can find the evidence all over this site..."​
The comments you found so 'off base' are simple: do you desire to work on your marriage (just as your wife is) or are you desiring to end it? 

It is absolutely NORMAL to go through the thoughts you are having. We are asking you to start thinking about this, rather than simply drawing your dilemma on and on, which is painful to both you and your wife. 

C) Regarding the idea that we are 'vilifying' you and 'praising your wife', you are quite wrong. 

The first problem is that NO one has vilified you. Again I suggest you reread the posts and find ANY text which vilifies you. What we point out, _as professionals_ is that _very few, if any_ affair ever happens randomly. In _every_ case we've ever worked with, there have been problems PREEXISTING in the marriage, to which the affair feels like a possible, or even necessary (albeit wrong) solution. Because of this, we point out_ unless that problem_ is found and fixed, the marriage is set up for a repeat performance - or worse. 

It seems to me that you are not willing to find out if there are troubles in your marriage that need to be fixed. This means that you are not willing to do the work necessary to restore your marriage. In fact, I'm assuming that you feel you are pretty much the perfect husband, and are in no need of work, right?

That is too bad, but it also gives you an answer to your dilemma: you don't have to remain 'un-decided' about your marriage: it is already over. In a way that should remove some stress from your shoulders. 

Indicative of the troubles in your marriage is the fact that you would declare that anyone 'praising your wife' is unprofessional. That is simply a stunning statement. Your wife owned up to what she did, we comment on that in a positive way, and you declare this to be 'unprofessional!' I will say that I respectfully disagree. I think it would be FAR more unprofessional to call your wife names and discount the fact that she took such a step. If your definition of 'professional' includes the notion of insulting people, then I will remain 'unprofessional'.

I will apologize to you when you point out where I was wrong in my assessment of your marriage. The trouble is that you would have to take a very hard look at your marriage in order to prove where I am wrong (and where my wife is wrong) - and it is my guess you have no intention of making that close an examination.

There have been people on this thread who believe that in order to 'support' a person in your place, they must say nice things to you, and back you up in all your decisions. I do not take that approach. I offer concrete help that works. There is lots of evidence on this site (and others. although we do it for free here) that what we do _works_. Here's an analogy: suppose your car is out of gas, and you are pushing it down the block to the gas station. The _sympathetic_ 'support' you get at times is equivalent to people standing on the curb letting you know how strong you are, how well you are doing, and how 'you'll get there!' My support is to get right there behind the car and push while you steer.

You pick the help what you want. But by all means, keep in mind that angry outbursts like the ones you've thrown at the people who have volunteered to help your marriage recover, coupled with the way that you have addressed, and treated your wife when she disappointed (or annoyed, angered, hurt) you - place even more check marks in the column of observations any competent counselor (or coach) on 'possible causes' and 'things to work on.' 

You are free to make the decision to divorce your wife. No one is arguing that. But what we ARE pointing out, with absolute clarity, is that if you decide you want to recover your marriage, you will have to face your own issues. The troubles in your marriage are _not_ the sole responsibility of your wife. You, as an equal partner, are responsible for your marriage as well. 

You wife is responsible for her actions - an affair. But BOTH of you are responsible for your marriage. If that's vilification, so be it. At least you were notified. Even if you leave this marriage and go to another - your baggage stays with YOU. 

Why affairs start

"...Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. _However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband_..."​
One day you'll find the courage to take on your own problems! I hope it's soon. Your wife seemed to think you were worth it!

Our website​


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## Dowjones

Like many passive-agressive people, you state the obvious, then proceed to make "assumptions", based on a knowledge you simply do not have. You know nothing about me, my wife or my marriage, yet you (in your pompous self-rightiousness) presume to tell me how many problems I have (without justifying your opinions with facts, which you don't possess) when both you and your wife are cheaters, then quote the Bible, as if you are in Christ-like accordance. Isn't there also a passage about removing the splinter from your own eye before you attempt to remove the beam from somebody elses'? Do me a favor and try and help somebody else, If I listened to you I would confer sainthood on my wife and positively beg her to cheat on me, because I evidently (according to you) deserve it.


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## Dowjones

What is it about assumptions , they always say?


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## AFEH

Typically when people are in a hole they stop digging.

But now you've joined in the digging.


Bob




Affaircare said:


> Actually if you don't mind, I'd be happy to answer your question AFEH, and my hope is that it may make sense to the original poster, WhyMe.
> 
> I think you are taking a couple terms here and assuming that they mean the same thing, and they don't. You are assuming that the 'Loyal Spouse' is the same as a 'victim.' Usually I think people think of a 'victim' as an unfortunate person who suffers from some adverse circumstance through no fault of their own. Thus a person who is raped (male or female) would be closer to a 'victim' because even if someone did dress provocatively or drink too much, that does not give the rapist the right to sexually assault the 'victim.'
> 
> What I would suggest is that usually/often a 'Loyal Spouse' is not a 'victim' when a marriage breaks down to the point that an affair occurs. Here's why I suggest that: very, very often the 'Loyal Spouse' and the 'Disloyal Spouse' have both been unwittingly, unknowingly contributing to the break down of the relationship. Please note that AT NO TIME do I ever suggest that the 'Loyal Spouse' is responsible or "to blame" for the Disloyal Spouse's choice to have an affair. That is 100% on the shoulders of the Disloyal Spouse and it is horrifyingly destructive!
> 
> What I do say is that prior to the affair, both parties were engaging in activities that contributed to vulnerability to an affair. Now, when a 'Loyal Spouse' comes to this site, we could give them the "Awwww poor you" treatment and act as if they were the victim, as you suggest, but that would encourage blame, vengeance and punishment against the Disloyal Spouse and would not encourage rebuilding and reconciliation. This would not make the 'Loyal Spouse' a better human or spouse, so yes it might temporarily feel like people are "on their side" being supportive but in the longer run, bigger picture it would not help either the person or the marriage recover!
> 
> Sometimes the truth is hard to hear. Not all truth is roses and sunshine and someone else's fault. Furthermore, even if it is 100% the Disloyal Spouse's fault, the 'Loyal Spouse' can not change someone else. You can not "make" anyone else do anything! The only person you can change or make do something different is YOU, and so we address the person who's here...not the wrong's their spouse may or may not have done. (If their spouse came on here, then what they did would be addresses with them).
> 
> In this instance, there are several things that WhyMe said that I believe are pertinent to the discussion--things that are often overlooked in the rush to be supportive and tell the person they are a 'victim' and agree they've been 'abused.'
> 
> Did you notice, for example, that WhyMe mentioned his wife was scared to tell him about her infertility? He said she was "...terrified to tell me she could not have children." Those are his words--that's his word choice: scared and terrified. Now, you tell me, doesn't that raise a little red flag for you? Why would a woman, a wife, be *afraid* to tell the man who supposedly loves her ... anything? In a marriage, your spouse is supposed to be the one person in the world who truly and deeply knows you and to whom you are safe telling anything especially if it is the truth, and yet this lady is TERRIFIED and SCARED.
> 
> So this begs the question, in my mind, why is your wife afraid? I think we have another clue when we look at how WhyMe has been responding to this whole incident! In the very first post, WhyMe says that his wife confessed a short affair with a co-worker. Now don't get me wrong--hearing that the one you love has betrayed you is earth-shattering news. But you know what? She had the courage to turn to him, not harden her heart, do the right thing, and admit something she had done wrong. Put yourself in her shoes one moment--you have made a very, VERY bad mistake, and you decide to do the right thing. You go to your spouse knowing the mistake is extremely bad, and give them the respect of being honest even though it's not good. What sort of response might you hope for?
> 
> Based on WhyMe's response I believe we can somewhat deduce why she's afraid! He immediately dumped her and refused to even speak to her for more than a month! He went and "roughed up" the OM. Despite her taking the right steps of telling the truth at work, quitting her job, and ending all contact, he continues complaining even to the point of calling her a profane name (as demonstrated by the profanity filter putting in stars).
> 
> Our job here is not to coddle him; our job is to help he see what he may need to address in his own life so he becomes a better man and person--thus rebuilding a new, stronger marriage. It just can NOT return to "the way it was" because the way it was damaged his wife! He participated in this prior to the affair, so as a participant he is not a 'victim.'
> 
> So we could go your way--tell him he's a helpless 'victim' and she's an evil sl*t from h*ll who did it to him, poor guy. OR we can do it our way and actually show him that if he were to address his anger issues, address that his behavior makes his own wife afraid of him, address the fact that he left her 18 hours a day and she felt lonely, address that he based his life on children and she couldn't give him children...that would give her a basis to believe things could be different and safe for her and she then would be likely to join him in facing her own issues (and she even mentioned she had low self-esteem). Our way actually repairs and strengthens the marriage, rebuilding a stronger and healthier one with stronger and healthier individuals.


----------



## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> I would still like to hear from women , who have strayed and reconciled. Your stories might be valuable to me, to help get over the immediate images and anxiety.


I was looking after our two young sons while my wife went across the road to the club we belonged to. She wanted an evening out with a few friends.

It'd had got quite late so I walked over to see where she was. I walked round the corner and saw her sitting on a guy's lap smooching by the swimming pool. Her dress was wet where she'd been in the pool. I asked her to come home with me and she laughed in my face.

I was on contract in the Middle East. I could have had her sent home. But that would have meant missing my two sons growing up so I worked my way through it.

All the anxiety and heck knows what emotions I went through are long ago in the past and I rarely even think about the episode. But when I do the "image" of seeing her there does come back into mind.

I'd done nothing wrong and we were living a fantastic life, I just didn't deserve what she did.

We went on together for another 30 years and I have no regrets.

Bob


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## Dowjones

That sounds pretty rough, Bob. Was she sorry? Had anything else happened?


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## AFEH

Dow I could go into it, I’ve a pretty good memory. But if I did I know the emotions I felt then would come back now and I’ve not a mind to do that even to help a good man out.

Was just trying to communicate that a person can get over this stuff, especially the emotions. But what’s in the memory stays there and becomes an episode in our life. We can forgive if we have a mind to but I don’t think forgetting is possible. Rather the event goes into long term memory never to be recalled until something else happens.

It can take a long while for those emotions to settle down and get back on even keel. And even that is a bit of a journey in and of it’s own right. When the emotions have settled down a bit I think that’s the time we can start rationalising and start trying to understand things. It is a process and it does take time.

I think you’ve a little journey, a different path through the forest that you weren’t expecting to take. Hopefully the path will rejoin the one you were already on. But things will be different even if the paths do reconnect sometime in the future. That’s the trouble with these things in life, things are never quite the same again even when we get back on our original path again. Something is most certainly lost, but there may be a benefit to that loss and the eventual reward may prove worthwhile. I really hope it is for you whatever you chose to do.

Bob


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## Dowjones

I had a long talk with my FIL, this morning and I was happy to learn that both him and my MIL support me completely, and had hired a very high dollar PI (with some big-time hackers) to look at the situation with my wife (they are loaded). This PI has told them that what my wife and her co-worker says appears to be true, and he can find no evidence of any communication between them outside of work hours. My wife also told me that when "it", was happening, she remembers asking him to stop, but that she was too drunk to put up any resistance, so she waited for him to finish then ran away . I hope that this part is true, it would go a long way to help me recover my trust in her. But it makes me even angrier at the co-worker. I asked her if she was willing to swear out a complaint against him, and she said she would if I wanted her to, but IDK. After this amount of time, nothing much can be done. It would be his word against hers, and there is always that ass-whipping I gave him, and maybe he would try to get me for assault. Plus, his wife has been a great help in finding out all of the gory details, so do I want to f**k that up? She has also stated that she will never drink again without my knowledge and participation. Honestly, she is doing everything and more to show true remorse. I have told her that IF we can reconnect, and IF I can put this behind me, we can always adopt in the future.  she sobbed for an hour and thanked me like 8 million times, I finally got a good night's sleep , last night.


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## AFEH

Dow. Is your wife truly suicidal?

Bob


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## Dowjones

Her therapist says that she is borderline, the guilt plus her inability to bear children has put her self-esteem to an all-time low. She(therapist ) says that her self-image will improve if we can reconcile and I can forgive her. Our going out Sat. night and her being home has made a big difference. I have made the decision to try to work things out, I may be a fool, but I love her enough to try.


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## lobokies

hi Dow...

nice... case closed then.


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## Dowjones

I maybe should have put this on the Ladies lounge. I could really use some female input.


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## friendly

Hi Dowjones,

Do you believe in God? 

If you do, you are able to forgive! Open your heart and dry away her tears.

Everyone deserves a second chance. Who is a perfect saint in life ?Only Jesus Christ.

Don't make it too harsh for both of you. I know you still love her and you still care about her.

________________________________________________

I chose to forgive my husband 2 years ago, and now we are very happy couple. My marriage has grown even stronger. 

My trust for my husband came back little by little over 2 years. 
So far I have no doubt on him now. 

I forgave him and he has become the best husband I can ever pray for. He has corrected himself from mistakes.


Life is full of difficulties that God places them to test your marriage and your faith. 

Love can overcome!

May God bless your marriage!


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## Dowjones

Thank you for your kind wishes. We will try to deal with the issues that have caused this fiasco, and will need all of the good thoughts we can get>


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## Sadara

Hey Dow, been a couple of days since I read your thread. Since I'm only 55 days out from my husband's affair being exposed, I have days that are not so good and the last few have been hard for me. It's a roller coaster for sure. It certainly hasn't helped that an old friend committed suicide last Monday. She was 34 years old and left behind three small children. So, it's been rough!

I think you can get through this. I know it's hard and maybe it's easier for me to rationalize it because I have two children that deserve to live in the same home as their father. No matter what you are going to ride the emotional roller coaster. Our counselor calls it riding the crazy train. I have days I'm on it and that train is going at the speed of light. I have days I'm riding the scenic route. You are going to have crappy days, it's just a fact. It is going to take time. Then you'll have great days and you can hardly believe it's a fantastic day. In the beginning, the crappy days will out weigh the great days. But, over time that balance will shift. 

I think the hardest thing for those of us that were faithful to ultimately admit is that we played a part in our spouse feeling unloved or uncared for. And making them feel that way is a key part of why they had an affair. Nothing will ever make the affair acceptable really. But, there is a reason these affairs happen. The hardest part for you and your wife is going to be talking about why the affair happened and correcting that for the future. I know the hardest thing for you to hear and accept is that you will have to do as much work as your wife to get your marriage back on track. I didn't want to hear it at first, my husband had the affair, not me. I felt he had to do that work, all of it. But, I realized pretty quickly that the affair happened for a reason and I had to figure out what that reason was and fit that so I could fix my marriage.

Good Luck!!


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## LuckyCharmH

Hey dude
I read all of your post, and deeply sorry that you have to go though that. 
it is hard to reach to a decision from what others said. but if it was me I will take a break and put everything on paper

1- 3 Months affair is same as cheating, she could have stopped her affair and told.
2- when she had an affair she knew its going to end up sleeping with him. 
3- she slept with him because she got drunk and he forced her to it, COME ON man give me a break. don't blame on drinks, if you didn't want that happen in first place why the hell did you drink and go out with guy other than your husband. she saw that coming and wanted to happen. 
4- she should be thankful that she is married to hard working man that is trying to make a better living for her and accepting her with not able to have children problem. NOT BY going and cheat on him.
5- If she loved you she wont give you the ok to sleep with many women as long as you take care her. she is thinking only here about herself. 
6- cheating does not just happen, it requires planing, thinking, emotional ready. cheating is not a mistake, a mistake is when someone break cup of water, forget something, taking wrong turn, but not sleeping with someone considered a mistake. 

7- and Yes most people, once a cheater they will stay cheaters, they will think one day about cheating. 

8- if it was me, I will never call her or speak to her and focus on my education and career then find me a woman that loves me for me and don't cheat on me and is able to have my children. 

9- you have waited at least 3 months before talking to her or her family. and see then how you feel. 

Good luck


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## Dowjones

I got a call while at work, from the Co-workers wife and now I know what to do. she told me that there was another sexual encounter a few days before the final one. She also told me that she has talked to other women in the office, and that her husband and my wife had been flirting, had lunch in the food court together and were seen holding hands in the corridor. These women would never have told me, because I'm a man, but told her because she was his wife and has a small child. Do women always band together to screw us guys? She is leaving him, and is going to divorce. I confronted my wife as soon as I could get home, and she is out, permanently. I worked my ass off to provide a great living for her. I may have been gone, but she always knew where I was and that If she needed me I would come home. I took her on "date night", every Friday night, sent her flowers and presents on "special ", days, and tried my hardest show that my temporary work load would be over in 3 months and we could have kids and be financially secure. IDK, I'm good-looking, I'm intelligent, I'm "gifted", if you know what I mean. I work hard, and have never looked at another woman. I thought she love me!! Why? She is getting NOTHING!!!


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## Dowjones

Now that I have made my decision, It's all a matter for the lawyers. I will pop on to check out this thread, from time to time, so if anyone wants to say "I told you so". I'll see it. I will up-date what happens , as well. Thanks to all. Tanelorn and Affaircare, we didn't hit it off, because I was still ignorant of the true nature of her betrayal. Many of your points , I didn't believe were valid, because I believed that it was a "one and done", affair, now they make more sense. so thanks . also.


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## LuckyCharmH

so what I said above was true.

Man, you are way better off without her and I'm positive that you will find a better person. 
did you confront her about it? what did she say?
she is very disgusting if you know what I mean.


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## AFEH

Dow. Calm your emotions first. You've been hit exceptionally hard.

Take time out. 2 or 3 months.

Bob


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## Dowjones

She told me that she didn't want to make matters any worse and that basically what she said was true that she was the one who ended it and confessed. Lies on top of lies. Bob, with all due respect, why should I wait, so she can lie to me some more? Every word she has said has been a betrayal and deceptive. Why give her more time to invent more crap?


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## AFEH

Dear Mr Dow,
I didn’t say give her more time. I said give yourself more time. Time to understand and come to terms with your emotions. Big things emotions. I know you know that now. But you’ve still a way to go.

You mentioned your wife’s parents are very rich. You also said you are working for more qualifications to earn better money?

Then you said you’re going to engage the lawyers. Who wins? The people with the most money is my reckoning. So you will lose. Right?

So calm your emotions down. Where I live in Portugal it’s called “calma”.

Calm down and make an amicable divorce happen. If you do that in a rational way you will not be paying off the bill for the next 5 or 10 years.

Bob


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## Dowjones

I called her parents and told them about the new developments and they couldn't be more shocked. They believed her lies, too. But you have a point, Bob. I will take it more calmly. My lawyer says that if the co-worker's wife will appear, my wife will likely get nothing besides a small cash settlement, but that is just an off-hand opinion, and will have to be studied in more depth. All I DO know is that I want her gone from my life, forever. The amount of disrespect, the enormity of the betrayal, and the continued deceit has ended any love I ever had for her. I also called her therapist, and that beeotch KNEW about the other sex act, and didn't feel it was wise to tell me and positively agreed with my wife that I should be kept in the dark about the month-long flirting and romance. The kicker is that I'M the one who is paying for the therapy. Jeezus, I feel like such a fool. I was sad, but now I'm furious. No reconciliation, not now , not ever.!!!!!!!!!


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## Dowjones

My Pastor told me that I must learn to forgive, and in time, I will forgive her. When she is far away and I am divorced, then I will forgive her, and go on with my life. The only thing that she ever said was that I wasn't there for her, when she needed me, and that "threw", her into his arms. I grew up dirt poor, I have worked sometimes 48 hours straight, served in Afghanistan, (Marines) was wounded, in order to have the GI bill to go to college, and have busted my ass for her, making sure that there was NOTHING she lacked , because I knew that her parents would have bankrolled us, and I didn't want to be obligated to anyone other than myself. What I am going to do is take some time off, (the first ever) go to the Islands, by myself, and start to live.


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## notreadytoquit

Now that you said that about your therapist I wonder if mine knew of the H affair because H and I never did a joint session with her but in her last correspondence with her she just told me to move on without any further explanation. I personally thought she was not a good therapist because I never really got any real guidance from her on what to do/say.


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## Dowjones

That's the problem , this was my wife's therapist, so she felt obligated to my wife instead of to me, who paid the bills.


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## Dowjones

She and her Mom amd Dad came to the house about an hour ago, wanting to talk and get some of her things. I told her Dad that they could go into the house after I left. I went back and she had left a letter on the table addressed to "my Darling Husband". She said that she will tell me the complete truth, now, because there is no more reason to spare my feelings. Mighty decent of her, don't you think?


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## friendly

Quote: I DO know is that I want her gone from my life, forever.

Sorry about my previous comment. When you don't love her anymore, there's no point to waste time. Better a finger off than aye wagging.

You will confront her fact to face that you don't love her anymore and you want a divorce. Simply your love for her has ended and gone and you will stop paying for her personal bills if has.

She should move on her life in search of her happiness. 

The pain of the story needs an ending.

Don't leave everyone in guessing.


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## friendly

Dowjones said:


> She and her Mom amd Dad came to the house about an hour ago, wanting to talk and get some of her things. I told her Dad that they could go into the house after I left. I went back and she had left a letter on the table addressed to "my Darling Husband". She said that she will tell me the complete truth, now, because there is no more reason to spare my feelings. Mighty decent of her, don't you think?


Yes you're right and she would not give up. Who would give up a husband that makes sure that NOTHING she lacked? I started to wonder what she really wants is not a husband but someone to pay the bills. That explains why she goes on lying and lying.


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## lobokies

Dowjones said:


> I got a call while at work, from the Co-workers wife and now I know what to do. she told me that there was another sexual encounter a few days before the final one. She also told me that she has talked to other women in the office, and that her husband and my wife had been flirting, had lunch in the food court together and were seen holding hands in the corridor. These women would never have told me, because I'm a man, but told her because she was his wife and has a small child. Do women always band together to screw us guys? She is leaving him, and is going to divorce. I confronted my wife as soon as I could get home, and she is out, permanently. I worked my ass off to provide a great living for her. I may have been gone, but she always knew where I was and that If she needed me I would come home. I took her on "date night", every Friday night, sent her flowers and presents on "special ", days, and tried my hardest show that my temporary work load would be over in 3 months and we could have kids and be financially secure. IDK, I'm good-looking, I'm intelligent, I'm "gifted", if you know what I mean. I work hard, and have never looked at another woman. I thought she love me!! Why? She is getting NOTHING!!!


so there is another encounter. i already guessed this. so now, you got the ball. you decide where the direction will be.

****, once cheater always cheater. i hate this


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> What I am going to do is take some time off, (the first ever) go to the Islands, by myself, and start to live.


That's the way. Distance and time will give you new perspectives.

You'll kind of be "outside looking in" as though you are a detached third person instead of "inside looking out" as the first person caught up in mind games and deep emotions.

Bob


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## Dowjones

Her Dad said something once that has a bearing on the "why", of it. He said that she was always spoiled, everything came easy for her, and he took the blame for it. She never realized that to get the rewards, you have to put in the work. When there was a tough spot Daddy always made it go away. I'm apparently just a substitute for Daddy., so she needs me far more than I need her.


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## friendly

Quote: I'm apparently just a substitute for Daddy., so she needs me far more than I need her. 

I think so.


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## Dowjones

I have been to work for an hour, and have already gotten phone messages from MY parents, my sister, and her Mom saying that I should try to reconcile. I'm under a lot of pressure to do so. My Pastor, her therapist, pretty much all of both families want it to happen, and make excuses for her. Her Therapist called to "apologize," for advising her not to reveal more about the affair, and that she (therapist) is really working for both our well-beings. Therapist talked to my wife, and my wife said that I was to have ALL records of her sessions, to show Apparently that she (wife) is finally giving me the whole truth. This begs the question , if my wife will lie to me, who's to say she wouldn't lie to a therapist? Therapist asked if I wanted to attend wife's next session, to see for myself that wife is being upfront, and to set up an appointment with yet another Therapist who does marriage counseling. I don't want to go, but my lawyer said it looks good to a judge if I, at least, look like I'm willing to reconnect. I'm not, but hey, why should I be truthful with her, when she isn't.


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## friendly

Wao everybody has be united fighting for her happiness! Unbelievable! Who cares about your happiness? 
It's a good idea to listen to your lawer...but if you really hate to go... Then just don't go. Can you find a reason? for example, you're overseas for business research.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## friendly

You don't have to go through this when everybody gets together to push you. You can go away. Take some days off. Book a flight and find a decent place. Enjoy the peace in mind. You want your family to know they should support you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> I have been to work for an hour, and have already gotten phone messages from MY parents, my sister, and her Mom saying that I should try to reconcile. I'm under a lot of pressure to do so. My Pastor, her therapist, pretty much all of both families want it to happen, and make excuses for her. Her Therapist called to "apologize," for advising her not to reveal more about the affair, and that she (therapist) is really working for both our well-beings. Therapist talked to my wife, and my wife said that I was to have ALL records of her sessions, to show Apparently that she (wife) is finally giving me the whole truth. This begs the question , if my wife will lie to me, who's to say she wouldn't lie to a therapist? Therapist asked if I wanted to attend wife's next session, to see for myself that wife is being upfront, and to set up an appointment with yet another Therapist who does marriage counseling. I don't want to go, but my lawyer said it looks good to a judge if I, at least, look like I'm willing to reconnect. I'm not, but hey, why should I be truthful with her, when she isn't.


Personally I think your thoughts are going the wrong way with this. Life has changed you already somewhat.

But if you were an open and honest person before it all started, why let the experience turn you into a closed and dishonest person?

After this type of experience I think the only change we need is to construct new personal boundaries. You may be interested in taking a look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html.

I think the trick is to try and remain essentially who we are. To learn and somehow grow from the experience. The process of constructing and maintaining personal boundaries tell us a lot about ourselves, the type of person we are.

Bob


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## lobokies

just tell that you're done with her...
because this is on your mind i think.


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## AFEH

friendly said:


> Wao everybody has be united fighting for her happiness! Unbelievable! Who cares about your happiness?
> It's a good idea to listen to your lawer...but if you really hate to go... Then just don't go. Can you find a reason? for example, you're overseas for business research.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amazing isn’t it. Family taking care of the abuser and not the victim.

But that could be beneficial for Dow. He’s a big man who more likely can take care of himself. But I’m guessing it’s not possible for him to do that and at the same time take care of his families needs and his wife’s needs.

So maybe just a new boundary assertion. Something like “I really do appreciate your concern for (wife’s name). But right now and for the foreseeable future I’m having trouble taking care of myself. Please go ahead and support her in the way you feel best but don’t look to me at the moment to be part of that support”.

Bob


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## Dowjones

My thoughts are these> She said (though it may be a lie) that the main reason for the affair was my absence, and that because of her medical problems, she just felt that she couldn't burden me further, so that there was a "dis-connect", between us, and a "connection", with the co-worker.. Since the affair, I've asked for an "incomplete", from Grad School ( which the college granted, God bless them), I've cut back my hours ( which my boss is OK with, God bless him) and NOW she is finally ready to be my honest, loving wife again? WTF is that? Will she do this kind of crap to me everytime there is a "bump", in the road? What message am I sending if I reward her for infidelity, by doing what she wants me to do? Isn't that emotional blackmail? But maybe it's as simple as her wanting to tryout a black guy, then deciding it wasn't for her. Who the f**k knows?


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## Dowjones

Bob, I'm not going to be overtly dishonest, but I'm not going to volunteer anything, either. She has forfeited any right to honesty from me, so now I'm going to do what is best for me, and let her find out what it is after the fact. I'm flying to Vegas, this weekend, and will be looking To get my mind off things and possibly for discreet female companionship. It's sad, really. We were the "marriage made in heaven", according to the families, well, now we know where that's at, don't we.


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## Silence

Some say leave, some say stay. Who should you listen to. Listen to yourself. If you are a christian this should be an easy decision to make (What would Christ do?). On the other hand if your not a christian it still is an easy decision (What would someone of the word do?). Ask yourself if your a christian or not? 
From reading your thread i was elated when you decided to take her back.Then suddenly, the man's wife calls you and said they weren't telling the full truth. To me it seems as if she (his wife) wants company. She decides to get a divorce and you follow. Hmmm. No, I think your stronger than that. 
From the way you respond to events it's quite obvious that you unknowingly train her to lie to you. If she had told you the whole truth: You and her both know you probably would have never taken her back. Her therapist was right when she said keep it a secret. Often it is best to withhold the truth from person's who can't handle the truth. 
I advise you to treat her how Christ treats you. No matter what you do, he forgives you. He has forgiven her also. Trust me, in all likelyhood you will never forget what happened but you can forgive.If you move on, there is no guarantee that the next person you meet will not do the same. Don't run away from this marriage not accepting your responsibility in this ordeal. Family first,..........job, education, money etc.. last.

Im not even a chistian but I know which path you should be taking. You know also.

Anyways, have a blessed day.


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## Dowjones

Silence, thanks for posting, but you are way off base. Had she told me the complete truth, I would have, and in fact was, taking her back. I month is a small amount of time in a marriage and I would have thought that she was truly remorseful. It was the CONTINUED deceit that has destroyed the chance for reconciliation. You say that you agree with the therapist, and believe that to continue to lie is a good thing? Where in the Bible, does it say that to continue to commit the same sin is a positive decision? When did she repent and tell me the honest truth? I pointed out that I fixed what she told me was the problem, ( dis-connection because of absence and work load, etc) and she still lied to me anyway. So I'M the one evading responsibility? You better go back and read your Bible again.


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## lobokies

hi Dow...

Silence tried to be very objective about this. but please make up your mind ASAP. 
i suggest that you stop venting and do what you think you wannado on this problem. at this moment, i see that you walk on the same place(no progress of your decision). again please firm what will be your step.

i notice that you will not tolerate infidelity and yoou hate ur wife doing it. buut up to now, i haven't seen your final decision on your marriage.

Leave or Stay. no other option.


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## AFEH

You were “absent” doing the things a good man does. Even if prior to her infidelity she had spoken about how she felt about your absence and you did nothing about it, that’s still not an excuse for her behaviour. She wanted to do it and that’s why she did it. Everything else is just a smoke screen.

It’s understandable that you are very bitter, resentful and angry.

But it seems you’ve decided to take the path of revenge, Vegas and discreet female companionship.

That’s not the path I’d recommend and I cannot support you in that decision. I will tell you though that the path of revenge has many hidden mines to step on. It will only make matters worse for you in ways totally unseen at the moment.

That's why I never took that path. I thought it a waste of time and energy. Me I’d go hiking in the mountains or something to be alone with myself and nature as company.

Bob


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## LuckyCharmH

working hard and putting a lot of hours is not an excuse for her to cheat, what would she do of the army or marines decided one day to take you for another tour, is going to feel disconnect and sleep with everyone in America she connect with?
Come on, Man you are way better than her, I still can't imagine you still talk to her or even see her face after what happen. 

Cheater will always be a cheater no matter what. you are a good man. Leave her as soon as possible and leave everything behind, 
don't let anyone bother you or send you messages to calm down or rethink about getting back to her. 
screw the money. fill for divorce papers and leave. even change your house and furniture and everything she touched, start new life with different person a clean person.
by the way have she tested for STD after her sexual encounter?


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## moogvo

It is amazing to me how many instigators there are on this site.

Dow, I told you the short and the long of my story... I have found that it is not all that uncommon for a spouse who has stepped outside of the marriage to confess to infidelity, but not to the fullest extent. My wife tried to minimize it and it took me 3 months to get to the truth. When I found out about a second man, I told her that she had only one chance to come clean before I pulled the plug. that was the day I found out everything.

In her mind, she let me know that she was unfaithful, but chose to continue hiding some facts because she felt that they would have served only to cause further hurt. I had to make her understand that I had to know the long version complete with all of the details; that there had to be TOTAL DISCLOSURE and that anything less would be lying.

I finally got my answers.


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## Dowjones

moogvo said:


> It is amazing to me how many instigators there are on this site.
> 
> Dow, I told you the short and the long of my story... I have found that it is not all that uncommon for a spouse who has stepped outside of the marriage to confess to infidelity, but not to the fullest extent. My wife tried to minimize it and it took me 3 months to get to the truth. When I found out about a second man, I told her that she had only one chance to come clean before I pulled the plug. that was the day I found out everything.
> 
> In her mind, she let me know that she was unfaithful, but chose to continue hiding some facts because she felt that they would have served only to cause further hurt. I had to make her understand that I had to know the long version complete with all of the details; that there had to be TOTAL DISCLOSURE and that anything less would be lying.
> 
> I finally got my answers.


That is my basic problem. How will I KNOW when I've gotten ALL of the truth? Every last sordid , stinking, bit. I was ready to do my best, I made the changes that she wanted, and all I got was more lies. If her co-worker hadn't come clean to his wife, I would still be in the dark, still a dupe. Lobokies, I will make MY decision, when the time is right for ME to do so. I will listen to any comments by anyone that can really help, but I won't be bullied by anyone. No any poster, not my wife and not anyone else.


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## Dowjones

LuckyCharmH said:


> working hard and putting a lot of hours is not an excuse for her to cheat, what would she do of the army or marines decided one day to take you for another tour, is going to feel disconnect and sleep with everyone in America she connect with?
> Come on, Man you are way better than her, I still can't imagine you still talk to her or even see her face after what happen.
> 
> Cheater will always be a cheater no matter what. you are a good man. Leave her as soon as possible and leave everything behind,
> don't let anyone bother you or send you messages to calm down or rethink about getting back to her.
> screw the money. fill for divorce papers and leave. even change your house and furniture and everything she touched, start new life with different person a clean person.
> by the way have she tested for STD after her sexual encounter?


Yeah, Dude. The first thing I did was get tested, even though she said that they used a condom.


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## iamnottheonlyone

She hasn't fallen out of love with you. In most cases the "script" line is "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." Do you love her? Can you get over this (at some point)? She seem s to love you very much. That is very special. You might never find another woman that cares so much about you. Use it, don't abuse it. (Yeah that was trite.) You have a good woman. Appreciate her.


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## Dowjones

iamnottheonlyone said:


> She hasn't fallen out of love with you. In most cases the "script" line is "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." Do you love her? Can you get over this (at some point)? She seem s to love you very much. That is very special. You might never find another woman that cares so much about you. Use it, don't abuse it. (Yeah that was trite.) You have a good woman. Appreciate her.


Appreciate lies? Appreciate her having sex with another man? If she loves me, she has a bizarre way of showing it.


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## NotJustMe

No offense intended, but you seem to be far more concerned with not being in the dark or not being thought a fool than you are of with salvaging any sort of relationship.


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## friendly

Quote: I'm flying to Vegas, this weekend, and will be looking To get my mind off things and possibly for discreet female companionship.

I support you! Your wife told you too many lies. The funny thing is all the family, including your parents have been standing out for her by pushing you to rekindle with her, knowing that she's not a trustworthy daughter in law. You can get married and you can get divorced. Why people must advice reconciliation in principle when it's very obvious that the wife is a liar and she is less likely to stay faithful to her husband? 

How about the victim? 

Are you assuming all the wives would go to f a stud and cheat only because when they felt disconnected to their husbands? 

I was going through hell in marriage but I didn't cheat when my husband mistreated me. I felt not only disconected with my husband, but also, I didn't get a sperm from my husband in that period. So what? I would just musterbate when I needed sex. I believe many women are faithful no matter what happens that's simply they are honest women. That doesn't mean those women are not sexually healthy and need no sex.

If a woman wants to cheat, yes, she might be unhappy in marriage and that's just a feeble excuse. The main reasons are simply she's horny, dishonest and bored. She's not able to hold her animal insticts. Worst of all, she went on lying and lying.


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## friendly

RWB said:


> I have been in Dow's shoes, actually worse. Therefore I comment with some level of understanding on knowing the truth. His wife's withholding the truth was actually just more lies. I know he asked her the standards, How many Men?, How Long did it go on?, How many times did you have sex?, Did you say you loved him?, usually followed by Why?
> 
> Bottom line... more Lies = more Betrayal.
> 
> I got the same run around from the counselors, "Isn't it enough that you know she was unfaithful." No, it really isn't. People who deal in reality, Dow does, have to deal with life's details. People who live in fantasy, Dow's wife, don't worry about details. Before attacking Dow for wanting do know the details in his loss, ask yourself.
> 
> You get an extra $1000.00 charge on your credit card. Wanna know some details.
> 
> Your car gets smashed in the company parking lot. Wanna know some details.
> 
> I ask you "blinder people" these trite examples are just money and things, but you would surely want to know what happened. Now ask yourself why you wouldn't want to know about the most precious thing that you have ever shared a day with only to find out she has lied and betrayed your most sacred trust.
> 
> The only hope is truth.


:iagree:


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## Dowjones

NotJustMe said:


> No offense intended, but you seem to be far more concerned with not being in the dark or not being thought a fool than you are of with salvaging any sort of relationship.


Dude, maybe you can tell me how to salvage an honest marriage, without honesty?


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## friendly

Guess NotJustMe didn't go through all the posts... 

His wife kept lying to him. She didn't come clean but did her best to make up stories. (It's kinda putting all the blame on him. Because she was unahppy (feeling a disconnection to him) and she claimed she has medical problems, so she went for a stud and made him her lover... then later she said she not yet told all the truth... things like that. She's going on lying and lying.) 

Who wants to accept such repentance from a cheating spouse?


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## friendly

Quote (BOB has written) It’s understandable that you are very bitter, resentful and angry.

But it seems you’ve decided to take the path of revenge, Vegas and discreet female companionship.

That’s not the path I’d recommend and I cannot support you in that decision. I will tell you though that the path of revenge has many hidden mines to step on. It will only make matters worse for you in ways totally unseen at the moment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think he's taking a path of revenge. He has decided to get divorced, for him the marriage has ended and his lawer is working on it.

so now he must move on his life. 

Why people enjoy forcing him to continue the marriage with a woman that he doesn't trust? 

So I support him.


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## friendly

Quote: I advise you to treat her how Christ treats you.


He has forgiven his wife and he decided to move on his own life without her.


Quote: Will she do this kind of crap to me everytime there is a "bump", in the road? 

Yes there are bumps every now and then in the road of marriage and get ready to receive tons of shi* if you want to save your marriage.


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## Dowjones

I went out with some friends from work, and had dinner and a few drinks. It was real nice to not have to think about my marriage, for a few hours. The guys and ladies at work have been aces. Some of them have been in the same boat, either as the cheater or cheatee and they have given me loads of support. They all think it's my decision whether or not to D her, and pretty much all have invited me to stay with them or come over to talk, or hang out. There are plenty of good folks out there, men and women, amd if there is any kind of silver lining in this it's that they have shown me the meaning of true friendship.


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## friendly

Nice!


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## Initfortheduration

Dow, think of this. This could quite possibly be the first time she has been held accountable for what she has done in her life. This could be the first MAJOR CONSEQUENCE in her life ever. If what her father said is true, it is possible that she has never learned the negative consequences for anything she has done. Its no excuse, just the possibility that she was never equipped to not touch fire. Just some thoughts.


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## Dowjones

Initfortheduration said:


> Dow, think of this. This could quite possibly be the first time she has been held accountable for what she has done in her life. This could be the first MAJOR CONSEQUENCE in her life ever. If what her father said is true, it is possible that she has never learned the negative consequences for anything she has done. Its no excuse, just the possibility that she was never equipped to not touch fire. Just some thoughts.


I have actually thought of this. She has never had anything really bad happen to her, and she, very possibly, didn't know how to handle her medical problems, and was into the affair without really understanding the repercussions. I do know that she lacks maturity. IDK.


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## AFEH

friendly said:


> Quote (BOB has written) It’s understandable that you are very bitter, resentful and angry.
> 
> But it seems you’ve decided to take the path of revenge, Vegas and discreet female companionship.
> 
> That’s not the path I’d recommend and I cannot support you in that decision. I will tell you though that the path of revenge has many hidden mines to step on. It will only make matters worse for you in ways totally unseen at the moment.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I don't think he's taking a path of revenge. He has decided to get divorced, for him the marriage has ended and his lawer is working on it.
> 
> so now he must move on his life.
> 
> Why people enjoy forcing him to continue the marriage with a woman that he doesn't trust?
> 
> So I support him.


You got me wrong Friendly.

Not encouraging Dow to stay, not encouraging him to leave.

But I have been encouraging to give himself time to let his emotions calm down before he makes his decision and a number of other reasons.

These are life changing events and from my point of view we need to be in a calm emotional state before life changing decisions are made.

But thinking about it I made a life changing decision about my wife while in a very bitter, resentful and angry emotional state. And I’ve not regretted that decision in nearly a year and can’t see that I will in the future. But I did regret the way I ended my marriage.

Bob


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> I went out with some friends from work, and had dinner and a few drinks. It was real nice to not have to think about my marriage, for a few hours. The guys and ladies at work have been aces. Some of them have been in the same boat, either as the cheater or cheatee and they have given me loads of support. They all think it's my decision whether or not to D her, and pretty much all have invited me to stay with them or come over to talk, or hang out. There are plenty of good folks out there, men and women, amd if there is any kind of silver lining in this it's that they have shown me the meaning of true friendship.


Yes. Different people seem to appear to help us in these times when we're down. I was really down, a traumatised wreck of a man. There’s a couple just down the road we were friends with. The wife knocked on the door one day to ask about something and saw the state I was in. Then every day for a few weeks she’d come round at the same time for a little while to check me out. And she did it all with the support of her husband. There were a few people like that who appeared and helped me out. Absolutely invaluable, priceless.

Not one of them blamed me or asked me what I did wrong or told me to improve myself. In the early stages we need solace, not blame and recrimination.

Bob


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## iamnottheonlyone

I was in your shoes 25 years ago when I couldn't get over it. I moved on. There was nothing wlse to do. It was over. It sounds like that is where you are. You are angry. If you can never trust her enough to be comfortable with her then it could be time to file.
But she is remorseful. That is very very rare. That is an excellent sign for recovering your marriage. If you have been readling her, many marriages become incredible after the recovery becasue both people work hard on being in a happy marriage.


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## friendly

Bob I understood. Thanks! It's a very hard time in life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## friendly

I didn't want to divorce because I valued my family and I had faith in God. I believed nothing I can't forgive in a family.


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## friendly

I mean for everyone who faces the ugly truth of a cheating spouse, all the things once valued have destroyed. 
In my marriage, I chose to forgive my spouse. I'm not sure if he has come clean, lacked of evidences to accuse he did have sex. So they remain mysteries and unanswered. 

I didn't want to discuss about the TRUTH of his affairs in details. To forgive means to forget. 

He has become the best husband that I could ever pray for. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## friendly

I did encourage you to forgive your spouse. However, later I read about your love for your wife has ended and you want her gone forever. 

So there's no point to continue the marriage when love is dead. Your flame of love is dead. 

When I was cheated, it was very windy in my world, but I still kept a candle light and protected it with care. 

You told readers your love had ended in many posts. 

Do you really need advice when you've already decided? 

So I encouraged you to move on your life. 

There's nothing for you to hesitate and look around for more support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones

Thanks again to all. I talked with her a few minutes last night, and the conversation was good. She said that she never, ever, loved him, or desired him, but he made her feel needed, like her opinion mattered. She said that I have never needed anybody, so she felt useless when she found out that her ovaries were too scarred for conception. Like she had no value. She has left the matter of divorce up to me. She told me again that she loved me more than life and would always be faithful and would prove her honesty every day from now on , if I give her another chance. She also said that the only reason she did not tell me the complete truth the first time was fear that it would put me over the edge, and there would be no hope of reconciliation, and that her therapist agreed that the least said, the soonest mended. She says that she will never leave me voluntarily and that if I want her gone, I will have to force her away, and that she will do ANYTHING I say for a second chance. She said this several times. She didn't sob or whine, She said that she will always be an open book for the rest of her life, now that she knows the cost of deceit. IDK, When I said that I didn't love her, it was said in anger. IDK.


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## takris

Dowjones,

I think you mentioned quite a few posts back that she is borderline. Do you really have an understanding of this disease? I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I was like you, gifted and not without options, but naive about her problem.

My wife of 22 years is probably borderline, but I'm not pushing the firm diagnosis. We don't need it because we know who she is.

Point is, my wife has never cheated, but she has borderline tendencies. I know for a fact that she would if she was put in the right situation and saw the man as her infallible partner. She couldn't resist it. That stage would last precisely no longer than the minute she saw one flaw. Then she would come back to her safe place. Me.

She's a great person when she is not in one of her self-hatred stages.

I would hate to advise one way or another, but people who do not understand borderlines will try to fit you into their own box. They'll say "be like Christ" or "forgive" or "once a cheater, always a cheater". If she is truly borderline, you should make sure that you understand the disease before making the decision.


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## lobokies

**** her just leave her .. deceiver is ****. she can not be trust dow. she is an evil


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## takris

I'll just add that before you mentioned that her therapist said she is borderline, I was seeing the possible pattern in your description of the event. From my understanding of borderline, could this be what happened in her mind?

She is married, and already has passed the honeymoon phase of the BPD cycle. Now, in her mind, she sees that you are not the perfect saint. It is extremely hard for a borderline to see anything other than in black or white, so you have become the one that she cannot trust.

A new medical situation arises. You are not to be trusted in her eyes, but this other guy has demonstrated no flaws. He's the perfect one. I'll connect with him.

Other guy doesn't quite sweep her off her feet, so because gray areas cannot be grasped, he is bad. What are my options? Husband is there. Now, he becomes the saint again.

The saddest part, to me, is the self loathing of the borderline personality. Until recently, I was always able to see beyond, into the real person beneath. 

I'd highly recommend 'Walking on Eggshells' if you have not already read it. And yes, you can probably tell that I would not have continued my own marriage if I had known.


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## Dowjones

Thanks Takris, but I think you mis-understood my meaning. The therapist said that she (wife) was borderline suicidal, because of the guilt and remorse. If anything, my wife thinks that I don't need her, and that is part of the problem. None of this ever happened before her medical problems. She has never looked at another man before this. I really think that it was the combination of my working and being away till all hours, and her medical problems, and the new co-worker who had gone through the same fertility issues, that lead up to the affair.


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## AFEH

Dow you’re in what’s called “perception mode”. In that you are still trying to understand and comprehend what happened and why. It’s a very good thing. It’s like you’re gathering all the evidence, the what, whys and wherefores.

It’s an excellent place to be but a bit of a ****** at the same time.

Before this all happened you were settled on your course to you destination but you’ve been hit by a hurricane that blew you way off course. But you’ve ensured your sailing ship is re-rigged to deal with the new circumstances. That’s awesome Dow.

I reckon you know one day in the future you will come to your conclusions and judgements and you know the only person who can do that is you.

Bob


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## Dowjones

AFEH said:


> Dow you’re in what’s called “perception mode”. In that you are still trying to understand and comprehend what happened and why. It’s a very good thing. It’s like you’re gathering all the evidence, the what, whys and wherefores.
> 
> It’s an excellent place to be but a bit of a ****** at the same time.
> 
> Before this all happened you were settled on your course to you destination but you’ve been hit by a hurricane that blew you way off course. But you’ve ensured your sailing ship is re-rigged to deal with the new circumstances. That’s awesome Dow.
> 
> I reckon you know one day in the future you will come to your conclusions and judgements and you know the only person who can do that is you.
> 
> Bob


That's pretty much how it is, Bob. I have told her to expect divorce, and have started the process, but I can always change my mind, if the circumstances warrant it. The major obstacles and issues are whether or not she is finally being truthful, how much emotional connection she had with the co-worker, if she is able to show/prove beyond doubt that she is fully committed to me and our marriage, and I am convinced that there is no possibility of a repeat. She knows that I will only give her one chance. Anything less means divorce.


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## AFEH

Dow,
I think your wife knows that and both your and her family know that as well.

In a way you’ve been buggered. Screwed.

You know it’s your call.

Life does go on without the one we were committed to. I know that.

Bob


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## Dowjones

I also told her that until I'm completely satisfied that all of my conditions are being met, I will be proceeding with the Divorce. I have also told her that I am willing to examine my issues as well. I'm willing to cut back on my workload, and that her inability to have children is not and never has been an issue with me. I married her, not just her womb. She did cry when I said this. She (at my request) is going to another therapist, who specializes in marital issues, and who will keep me in the loop. A friend recommended her and I talked to her today, she does not believe in any evasion, or continued deceit, but works from the perspective that all issues need to be faced head on. She realizes my concerns, which is refreshing.


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## mommy2

I hope you and your wife at least TRY. I understand your hurt and anger - I am the betrayed spouse too. But I am glad you are seeing her reasons. DOESN'T MAKE WHAT SHE DID RIGHT! But I have been the wife of a guy who works all the time and is never around. It sucks - you do resent his work and feel like you're not important to him. I also know what it's like to struggler with having children. (it took 4 long years of fertility to get my 1st child) That also sucks beyond belief and is hard to explain in words to someone how that makes you feel. You're right - she should have confided it you -but my guess is she didn't want to look like less of a woman to you. She knew you wanted children, was probably scared you didn't want her anymore. Both are very emotional things to deal with and she dealt with them the wrong way. She was selfish and did the wrong thing. But then she did everything she could think of to show you she was sorry - confessing, quitting her job, etc. 

If you go in with open mind, I bet you in can find the love again.


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## Dowjones

Thank you, M2, for your post. I think that some posters have gotten the wrong idea. I do NOT want to divorce my wife. The only thing I want less than divorce is an unfaithful spouse. I know she wants to reconcile, and will do anything to make it happen, but my trust in her HAS to be restored. Bottom line, I can't be married to somebody I can't trust. Period!! The surest way for her to prove her trustworthyness, is to be completely transparent, for as long as it takes. She says she will do this gladly. Time will tell. I have done and am doing what I can to be available to her, at all times, and feel that the possibility exists for reconciliation. But there must be no more lies, evasions or omissions......ever. I don't think that is too much to ask.


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## lobokies

hi dow ...

it seems like you are in the middle of nowhere. its still hard for you to decide.

well at least i got the picture, u don't want divorce but trust to be rebuilt. this will need time. well the only solution for getting calm is you should pray.


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## Dowjones

Lobo, I'm not going to do anything quick. I'm going to continue to gather info, go to therapy sessions, and weigh my choices,carefully. 6 years of marriage is worth a few extra weeks.


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## friendly

Quote: ...also told her that until I'm completely satisfied that all of my conditions are being met, I will be proceeding with the Divorce.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your replies to your readers fluctuated, rising and falling irregularly throughout out 9 pages.

Now you said you still love her.

You have got all the promises from your wife, all what you want in a wife she's willing to provide. But you're hesitating to give her a second chance. 

Do you really love her as you stated? 

Or your love is conditional and selfish? I want, I first, I everything.

I'm wondering how true is your love for your wife? That's everybody's guess.

You've got a lawer working on your divorce, it's not so kind to any woman what you have done so far.


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## friendly

Are you able to provide all what she wants in a husband? 

If you are not perfect, how can you ask her to be a saint?


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## Dowjones

Friendly, this isn't some parlor game for your amusement. This is my marriage and my life, and I very confused and very hurt, and don't have a clue what is going on . To you, It's 9 pages, to me, it's the major crisis of my life, so sorry if it doesn't meet with your approval. I'm here for help, but it seems that I get criticized, regardless of which choice I make. I'm going to make the choice that is , in my opinion, the best for me, my wife, and my marriage. It will take as long as it takes.


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## Dowjones

Am I a perfect husband? No, of course not. Do I expect her to be a perfect wife? No, of course not. Being a faithful wife isn't asking too much, in my opinion. Have I made mistakes, loads of them, and will make more. Will she make mistakes, of course. But infidelity isn't a "mistake", it is a deliberate choice.


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## friendly

You already know yourself not perfect then why you're being so mean as a husband? I don't think you are being kind, instead, you're cruel.

You DEMAND your wife to meet and satisfy all what you want meanwhile, you have a lawer to work on your divorce.

WTF is that?


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## friendly

Just answer this:

Do you really love her as you stated? 

Or your love is conditional and selfish? I want, I first, I everything.


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## friendly

Quote: ...also told her that until I'm completely satisfied that all of my conditions are being met, I will be proceeding with the Divorce.

WTF is that? Good husband?


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## friendly

You don't really care about her love for you as a wife. 

You only needs a female who is able to satisfy "your conditions"

Give her a break! Have a heart!

If you already paid a lawer why you can't spare her suffering?


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## friendly

quote: This is my marriage and my life, and I very confused and very hurt, and don't have a clue what is going on .

This is big bull ****. If you don't have a clue, why you paid the lawer to work on the divorce?

It's very obvious that your target is to make your wife suffer as much as possible before you dump her in the court.


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## Dowjones

Do you understand marriage at all? If I wasn't interested in repairing my marriage, I wouldn't be here. If I didn't love my wife, I would not have worked so hard for her. You think I WANTED to work 18 hour days? Dude, you need to get real. My "conditions", are the same as every married person needs. Love, trust, and respect.


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## friendly

Comment removed by Friendly.


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## friendly

Dowjones said:


> Do you understand marriage at all? If I wasn't interested in repairing my marriage, I wouldn't be here. If I didn't love my wife, I would not have worked so hard for her. You think I WANTED to work 18 hour days? Dude, you need to get real. My "conditions", are the same as every married person needs. Love, trust, and respect.



You are not qualified to use these 3 big words. Love, trust and repsect after being a bastard husband.


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## friendly




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## friendly

Quote: If I wasn't interested in repairing my marriage, I wouldn't be here. If I didn't love my wife, I would not have worked so hard for her. You think I WANTED to work 18 hour days? 

-----------------------------------------------------
Hell Yes, ladies, you can't find a better husband than this one!

A great man no needs to brag on his history.


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## lobokies

friendly said:


> Quote: this isn't some parlor game for your amusement
> 
> What amusement? To see how you make a woman suffer and support you? F you!


hi friendly, 

dow does not make woman suffer. but his wife does make him suffer and until now Dow is not in the constant emotional condition.


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## MsLonely

war between women and men?


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## sweetpea

Treat others with respect and dignity is #1 rule on TAM. Please refer to the posting guidelines for more information.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...117-posting-guidelines-please-read-first.html


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## Dowjones

friendly said:


> Quote: If I wasn't interested in repairing my marriage, I wouldn't be here. If I didn't love my wife, I would not have worked so hard for her. You think I WANTED to work 18 hour days?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Hell Yes, ladies, you can't find a better husband than this one!
> 
> A great man no needs to brag on his history.


Is there any way to inform the moderators about this guy? This person is the rudest I've met here and I don't want him to post on my threads again.


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## Dowjones

friendly said:


> Quote: If I wasn't interested in repairing my marriage, I wouldn't be here. If I didn't love my wife, I would not have worked so hard for her. You think I WANTED to work 18 hour days?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Hell Yes, ladies, you can't find a better husband than this one!
> 
> A great man no needs to brag on his history.





MsLonely said:


> war between women and men?


I hope not. As stupid as I was, I would probably lose.


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## MsLonely

LOL


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## Dowjones

Thank you, Sweetpea. I really don't want to see any poster banned, could "Friendly", be given a warning , instead?


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## MsLonely

Poor friendly, can't read & reply her own threads...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely

I don't like her tone but...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones

"friendly", wasn't too friendly to me. That's the first time I've been "F-you'd", here at TAM, does this sort of thing happen often?


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## AFEH

Friendly is a woman. She so obviously doesn’t understand Men. The moderators are exceedingly good here, that’s one of the core reasons the forum is so very popular.

I’m just seeing “normal stuff” in your posts Dow. Maybe that’s makes us both crazy and abnormal lol.

You are going through what men go through when they’ve been cheated on. And blow me down one of the reasons you got given for the cheating, after the act, is that you did an 18 hour day for the betterment of yourself and therefore your marriage. Sometimes life sucks but again you are manning up to it and making adjustments along with personal sacrifices. And with all that going on you’re also getting abused here and again you’re being very generous and manning up to that as well.

You’re doing fine buddy.

Bob


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## MsLonely

Friendly voiced for a cheating wife won't recieve many sympathetic ears, so next time she learnt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones

Thanks Bob, I'm trying to do the best I can, for all concerned. Tanelornpete and affaircare, not withstanding, I'm thinking of my wife's well-being also. If divorce becomes necessary, she will be taken care of. I told her this last night. She said that she wants me and our marriage back, not money, and will take none and is determined to prove herself to me. She told me about the meetings with the co-worker, the holding hands, pretty much everything that the co-worker's wife told me. My wife says she is an open book now and WANTS to answer all of my questions, and will give me all of her passwords, usernames, etc. But that I won't find anything else, because there IS nothing else. We are going to the new therapist together from now on, and I think it may do us a world of good, to have an impartial counselor. I want to repair our marriage, I don't want to divorce. If I'm a fool for doing so, then I 'm a fool. I told my lawyer to put the paperwork on hold, and I hope that it is on hold forever. If we CAN reconcile, we WILL reconcile. I'm not going to give up on my marriage, until there is NO hope at all. People are going to vilify me, I know, but that is what I've decided, for me.


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## MsLonely

you're quite smart. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely

Hi, i'm not very pure but I haven't cheated my spouse yet. 
I don't know why i'm doing this 2 u coz i'm nothing but an outsider. Note: I've no product for sale.  
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn't jealous. It doesn't sing its own praises. It isn't arrogant.
King James Bible
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely

You're a smart man, you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> Thanks Bob, I'm trying to do the best I can, for all concerned. Tanelornpete and affaircare, not withstanding, I'm thinking of my wife's well-being also. If divorce becomes necessary, she will be taken care of. I told her this last night. She said that she wants me and our marriage back, not money, and will take none and is determined to prove herself to me. She told me about the meetings with the co-worker, the holding hands, pretty much everything that the co-worker's wife told me. My wife says she is an open book now and WANTS to answer all of my questions, and will give me all of her passwords, usernames, etc. But that I won't find anything else, because there IS nothing else. We are going to the new therapist together from now on, and I think it may do us a world of good, to have an impartial counselor. I want to repair our marriage, I don't want to divorce. If I'm a fool for doing so, then I 'm a fool. I told my lawyer to put the paperwork on hold, and I hope that it is on hold forever. If we CAN reconcile, we WILL reconcile. I'm not going to give up on my marriage, until there is NO hope at all. People are going to vilify me, I know, but that is what I've decided, for me.


Dow, you're doing better than I did. And so is your wife.

You both have gold there.

Bob


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## Dowjones

Bob, I'm feeling much more optimistic, today. I know that I will have good days and bad, but I thought long and hard about all she has done to prove herself, so far. Confessed to her boss, the co-workers wife (in person) lost her job, and willingly accepted the scorn of friends and family, totally rejected the co-worker (albeit, after the second act) and her complete willingness to do anything to continually prove her love, and future faithfulness and honesty. Gives me hope.


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> Bob, I'm feeling much more optimistic, today. I know that I will have good days and bad, but I thought long and hard about all she has done to prove herself, so far. Confessed to her boss, the co-workers wife (in person) lost her job, and willingly accepted the scorn of friends and family, totally rejected the co-worker (albeit, after the second act) and her complete willingness to do anything to continually prove her love, and future faithfulness and honesty. Gives me hope.


Dow, hope is a very pure thing. Hope is exceedingly pure.

Bob


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## mommy2

You have much to be hopeful for!! Truly you are fortunate because your wife sounds very, very sorry for her betrayal and willing to do what she can to rebuild your marriage and your trust. It can be done. 

Trust will come back in time. Communication is key and you'll get there. Believe it or not, surviving this could make your marriage even stronger. 

Just remember (one of the toughest things I think) is while you are rebuilding, you can't throw the A in her face. Many a time have I had to bite my tongue because I know it wasn't fair. My H has showed me his determiniation to keep our marriage in tact. 

Good Luck to you.


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## AFEH

I was wondering Dow do you have the answer for your original question “Why me?”.

Or maybe the question is no longer applicable?

Bob


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## Dowjones

Bob, It will take time, but I'm beginning to find my answers. I am putting a lot of effort into attempting to understand my part in the failure of communication. One thing is sure, when I ask her about an issue, I will make absolutely certain she understands all of the repercussions and then we can make decisions together. We had dinner at her parents, tonight and it was a fiasco, her MOM bawled, and her Dad kept apologizing to me. It was totally embarrassing. My wife was as happy as I've seen her in months, but I'm getting tired of the drama. Everytime I'm with her, she begs and pleads for forgiveness . I told her that I want a faithful wife, NOT a slave, and that I want to be a husband, NOT a jailer. We had a real surprise, this morning. The new therapist called me out-of-the-blue, and asked if my wife and I would like to meet her and her husband for breakfast, as a "get acquainted", meeting. It was really nice and very thoughtful, so we went, and had a great time. We didn't discus the affair or our marriage , she mostly talked about her approach to therapy and the ideas she stresses. She is all about communication and honesty. She said that there are 3 types of lies. Direct lies, avoidance, and omission, and she will allow none of these. She reminds me of my old English Teacher.:smthumbup: My wife likes her much better than the other one. She says that she sounds more willing to get to the bottom of our issues, instead of trying to put a bandaid on a wound. I agree with her.


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## AFEH

Dow she sounds like a seriously good therapist.

Sounds like your wife and her family are really expressing their emotions, mainly emotions of regret, sadness and remorse. That means they’ve taken some form of ownership and responsibility for the problem and that they see you as a really good man. It maybe be tough for you to deal with those types of emotions considering the emotional turmoil you’ve been going through yourself.

But it could all be so very different. They could be in denial, blaming you and minimising the affect it’s all had on you. If they were to be doing that then your head would truly be in a spin.

Your wife is begging for forgiveness. Maybe you’re just not there as yet to be able to forgive her. But I think maybe she’s going to beg until you do. I understand what you are saying about a slave. I think it key to learn to forgive ourselves and others.

Forgive them for they know not what they do. They knew they were cheating. But they didn’t know the consequences to themselves and others they love that would be caused by the cheating. It’s only when they “live” the consequences that they understand this stuff. If you believe your wife is truly repentant then maybe you can forgive her now. Doesn’t mean you have to stay together and it certainly doesn’t mean you’ll forget. But just maybe if you forgive you will have a much better partner with you while you’re going through the rebuilding process.

Forgiveness is a sincere process. If you’re thinking on forgiving and haven’t been in a situation before where you’ve needed to do it then there’s lot of information available.

Bob


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## Dowjones

Yeah, Bob, it was really nice of her to take her Sat. morning and meet with us on an informal level. She treated us like human beings and not "clients", we felt very comfortable with her. I was really nervous, too, so it was a big relief. Her husband who was along for the ride (they were shopping) and I talked sports and Military stuff, He's former Navy. The family dinner was so depressing. Her parents feel to blame, somehow. I don't fully understand their thinking, but it made for an uncomfortable night. She asked if she could come home, just for the night, to see the animals, and get some clothes, so she's sleeping in the bedroom now, IDK whether to get into bed with her or sleep on the sofa. I've thought about it a lot, and I feel like I can forgive her, and work through our issues, as long as she stays honest, and I do believe she will. One thing she needs badly is some girlfriends. She's very shy and hasn't made any friends yet. That is one of the reasons we started going to the new church, and thank God, we did.


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## AFEH

Glad it went well at breakfast, sounds very original, should be an interesting journey.

Reckon your wife wants you to sleep with her Dow. If she didn’t she wouldn’t have stayed the night. That’s my thoughts.

I made a massive mistake of making love to get back together after serious break-ups, we had a few. Looking back, it never resolved the issues at hand. They somehow got buried and were never properly addressed and resurfaced years in the future

After our last break-up my wife came back home and looked seductively gorgeous. I just told her I’m not going there as it never solved any problems.

I tried to work through the problems but she didn’t participate so it was over for me.

Bob


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## Dowjones

I'm sure that she wants sex, because that was never our problem. But last night she just wanted to be with me , at home. She made the point that if our living arrangements went back to normal, it would go a long way to easing her anxiety, and she would be able to begin to prove her love and faithfulness, which she can't do from her parents house. She has gotten a new job, working in another church office. Our Pastor got her the job. It's only 30 hours a week, but she will be doing volunteer work at the local animal shelter, too. Even though she is still filled with self -loathing and remorse, she has made progress on doing more positive activities. I can't say enough about our Pastor, either. He has had several meetings with my wife and it was through his encouragement, that she finally broke down and told the complete story about the affair. He told her that true repentance required her to confess completely to Christ and to her husband. I believe she has done that.


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## Dowjones

I'm also working on my own responsibility for the troubles in our marriage. Even though she told me she was OK with it, I should never have been away from home as much as I was. I basically left her alone and friendless in a strange city. That and having to cope with her fertility issues with little support, is what put her over the edge. And for this I'm to blame. Some blame also has to be given to the people at her former place of work. Besides the co-worker, there were others in that office who do a lot of partying and drinking, after work hours. One of the women was good enough to call me and explain that there are a lot of inter-office romances going on all the time, but that my wife did not participate except the one time, and that they were all shocked when she came in and "outed", the co-worker. None of this is an excuse for her behavior, but goes a long way to show that she is now being honest about what went down.


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## AFEH

You seem more settled Dow. I guess that's quite a lot to do with getting the whole truth. The support you both have from various people sounds quite phenominal. Can't put a value on friends and wise advice in these times.

Bob


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## Dowjones

I think that the last bit of "trickle truth", threw me as well as the fact that her therapist encouraged her to omit some stuff that happened. WTF, kind of therapist would counsel a cheater to continue to lie? IDK if it's possible to sue a therapist , but I'd like to try.


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## mommy2

_I'm also working on my own responsibility for the troubles in our marriage. Even though she told me she was OK with it, I should never have been away from home as much as I was. I basically left her alone and friendless in a strange city. That and having to cope with her fertility issues with little support, is what put her over the edge. And for this I'm to blame._ 

Good for you. Seeing and accepting you were to blame for issues in your marriage. I, was to blame for many as well. That, of course, doesn't make it our fault that our spouses cheated - that's still all on them and wrong BUT it speaks volumes when you can admit you weren't perfect either. 

_She made the point that if our living arrangements went back to normal, it would go a long way to easing her anxiety, and she would be able to begin to prove her love and faithfulness, which she can't do from her parents house._

I think she has a valid point. The day my H told me about his A, I wouldn't let him leave. We stayed together the whole day, and every one after. I think that's why I was able to forgive him. He was with me (except when we were at work) & I could see how hard he was trying and how sorry he was. And being in his arms felt SO good. It helped me to reconnect on all levels. I don't know if we would have the same outcome if I had had him move out. It would have been much harder. IMO


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## Dowjones

Well, she found out about my planned trip to Vegas, and is really scared, that I'll meet someone else. I said, But you told me I could have other women, if I would just take you back. She cried, but told me she would stay with my sister, until I get home, so I would know where she was and what she was doing. "But please don't fall in love with someone else." So I booked a flight going to Memphis, instead, went home and asked her if she would like to go out for BBQ. I'll surprise her on the way to the airport, thursday night.


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## Workingitout

Going to Vegas is a bad move. Engaging in retrobution sex will bring you down to her level and will not heal your marriage. Your wife was emotionally sick to do what she did. She was crying out for something. You stooping to that level is not right. It makes you an adulterer and cheater as well. Stick to your marriage vows like a man. I don't blame you for the thoughts. (Can't say I don't have them) Spend your time and efforts working on your marriage.


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## AFEH

Workingitout said:


> Going to Vegas is a bad move. Engaging in retrobution sex will bring you down to her level and will not heal your marriage. Your wife was emotionally sick to do what she did. She was crying out for something. You stooping to that level is not right. It makes you an adulterer and cheater as well. Stick to your marriage vows like a man. I don't blame you for the thoughts. (Can't say I don't have them) Spend your time and efforts working on your marriage.


He's Mr Romantic, off to Memphis.

Bob


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## BlueEyedBeauty

Your wife could have just kept it to herself​​But she came clean- and no, it was not all due to her coming clean because of going to Chruch either. You, are really the only one who will be able to know what you want to do. This is not something you, can really ask us about. You, are you- and you are the one who has the heart of allowing your wife back into your life. We are not the ones who are living with you and with her. I can feel the love you, have for your wife and I also feel the pain you have as well. 

The wife must really love you, though as well​Seeing that she did come clean to you- and she is also stopped cheating on you. It is not right that she cheated on you; no, this is true. But tell me though do you, really want to just throw your marriage away over her to doing this? I am not telling you, to run right back to her- but she did come clean though; she did let the family memebers know what she has done wrong. Right there it does show "She is very sorry"​
So you think about what you want​Do not let us make up your mind. Is she worth everything to you; or isn't she? If she is then let her back into your heart and then if she really isn't then walk like you did...​


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## Dowjones

BlueEyedBeauty said:


> Your wife could have just kept it to herself​​But she came clean- and no, it was not all due to her coming clean because of going to Chruch either. You, are really the only one who will be able to know what you want to do. This is not something you, can really ask us about. You, are you- and you are the one who has the heart of allowing your wife back into your life. We are not the ones who are living with you and with her. I can feel the love you, have for your wife and I also feel the pain you have as well.
> 
> The wife must really love you, though as well​Seeing that she did come clean to you- and she is also stopped cheating on you. It is not right that she cheated on you; no, this is true. But tell me though do you, really want to just throw your marriage away over her to doing this? I am not telling you, to run right back to her- but she did come clean though; she did let the family memebers know what she has done wrong. Right there it does show "She is very sorry"​
> So you think about what you want​Do not let us make up your mind. Is she worth everything to you; or isn't she? If she is then let her back into your heart and then if she really isn't then walk like you did...​


Thank you so much for your thoughts. I am in the process of seeing if Our marriage can be repaired.


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## MsLonely

Your marriage is being repaired so far so good! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely

I think your wife is a wonderful woman. That's why you married her and now you're working hard to repair your marriage. She's also very brave facing her mistakes! I haven't seen so beautiful a woman can be!It's not easy what she has done so far! It's also not easy what you've done for her so far! I wish to see a happy ending in your thread soon!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones

MsLonely said:


> I think your wife is a wonderful woman. That's why you married her and now you're working hard to repair your marriage. She's also very brave facing her mistakes! I haven't seen so beautiful a woman can be!It's not easy what she has done so far! It's also not easy what you've done for her so far! I wish to see a happy ending in your thread soon!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, MsLonely. We are trying real hard to make it work out. She has done everything I've asked and much more than I ever expected. Several times each day , she will call or text me , so I know where she is and what she's doing, all the time, and I never asked her to do this, she says she wants to. She gave me a new suitcase last night (she still thinks I'm going to Vegas) with a pictue of our wedding inside the lid, and "I love you more than anything", written on it. She said that whatever I do, she will always be waiting for me, and will always be faithful, for the rest of her life. She is very worried that I'm going to meet someone else. I asked her what she wanted me to bring her back from Vegas, and she said that all she wants is my forgiveness and my love. Man, is she ever going to be surprised , tomorrow night. I've bought an extra box of Kleenex, because I know she's going to bawl. But they will be good tears, for a change.


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## josh1081

I've been following along and I have no real advice. You guys seem to be on a path that works for you both.
What I'd like to add to this is that I really dig the whole Memphis switcheroo thing. I hope that works out as well for you as you have it envisioned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLonely

It's so exciting! Looking forward to reading your next posts!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Those phone calls are all the difference in the world, aren't they? I totaly know what you mean.
The reciepts and invoces my W gives me, are like well.. just so forthcoming. Its a trip 
Its been along time since I asked my W about the cheating. I think 2 weeks. I only thought about it 3 time today and chased it away with "happy thoughts "
Dow, I dig your thinking and good luck out there.


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## Dowjones

Thanks to all, but remember it took a lot of investigating to get to this place. I have a pretty accurate time-line about the affair and can almost tell you minute by minute. After getting away from the first Therapist, my wife has been completely forthcoming. I am really looking forward to tomorrow night. It is going to be fun to surprise her and knowing her, she will be exstatic about the trip. I don't know if I will have sex with her or not, but I'm keeping my options open.


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## MsLonely

Second honeymoon!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones

Greetings from the land of BBQ, Memphis , Tenn. We just got back about an hour ago. The weekend went great, we had a blast, and things are looking up. When I broke it to her that we were going to Memphis, instead of me going to Vegas, as I expected she cried for about an hour, then would not let go of me for the whole flight. We go to counseling tomorrow, and I'm actually looking forward to it. We talked a lot about the future and I think we can make it, if both of us try .


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## MsLonely

Very good news. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## friendly

sweetpea said:


> Treat others with respect and dignity is #1 rule on TAM. Please refer to the posting guidelines for more information.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...117-posting-guidelines-please-read-first.html



I had referred to the posting guidelines after I was banned.

Very nice of this forum that has given me a second chance to use my account Friendly.

Sorry to Dowjones! 

BTW I will not F anyone again. I'll always talk with respect. (My misunderstanding that it's normal to say F this F that F U while talking.) I was wrong.


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## Dowjones

No prob, Friendly, happens to all of us, sooner or later. Glad to see you back.


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## Dowjones

After talking with therapist/counselor, I'm beginning to see where I've been too caught up in my own work and relationship issues. She (therapist) says that she is almost certain that I have all the information about the affair, and that she's also pretty certain that it was a "one time thing", and that my wife is totally remorseful, and loves me completely. The main issue seems to be my wife's reaction to finding out she is infertile. She (wife) says that she felt that she couldn't confide in me, for a variety of reasons: That I was already working too hard, and she didn't want to add to my burden, that I was very much looking forward to starting a family and she didn't want to dissappoint me, that she felt less of a woman, and that co-worker was a sympathetic ear, when she had nobody else. IDK if all of this is true, but my wife has been totally transparent since her confession, so I'm going to wok hard at being much more accessable, and I think that with our new church, she will have new friends (women) to socialize with. I have told her that if we can overcome this, we can adopt a couple of babies in the future. She is so excited .


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## notreadytoquit

I am so happy for you Dowjones. It's nice to read some positive stories on this forum and let's hope everything works out great for the two of you.


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## Dowjones

I almost forgot to mention the coolest part of thee weekend. The co-worker's wife insisted he send my wife a letter of NC!! Although my wife hasn't contacted either of them, since her confession) We didn't receive it until we were home from Memphis, and were checking our E-mails . My wife immediately showed it to me and asked if I thought WE should respond. I said that we shouldn't, and she deleted it and said that she was so relieved not to have any contact with"those people", ever again. Then, of course she cried and told me how wrong and horrible she was, and how wonderful I was for giving her a second chance, and taking her on a surprise trip, that she would spend the rest of her life making me proud of her. She is a very emotional person, no doubt.


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## Sadara

It sounds like things are moving forward positively. I'm happy for you.


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## Dowjones

For the most part, Sadara, they are, but there is still some resentment on my part, though I'm working on it.


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> For the most part, Sadara, they are, but there is still some resentment on my part, though I'm working on it.


Dow I think your resentment is natural, I would be surprised if you weren't resentful. But I’m guessing resentment doesn’t fit comfortable on your shoulders and it’s an uncomfortable feeling. There are those that cling onto their resentments and of course it turns them into bitter people.

I think clearing ourselves of resentment is one of the higher orders of being a humanist, a human being. Personally I think it starts with forgiveness. Have you a plan, timeline or process in mind for ridding yourself of resentment?

I’m hanging onto mine for a while, it’s keeping me away from my wife. But I hope some day soon I’ll start the process. I actually expect to fail the first few times through the process.

Bob


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## Dowjones

The major problem, Bob, is that if we are to have really good communication, I must express to her, that I'm resentful, which cause her a lot of pain. She cries and apologizes again and again, and says she is worthless, etc. Our counselor has talked to her and told her that it is normal for her to have self image problems, but that it is also normal for me to be resentful. We are trying a new process that when I'm feeling pissed about the images I have and when she is feeling low and full of guilt, we tell each other immediately and do something we both like to do, together, and talk it out, while we are doing so. It works pretty good.


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## AFEH

Dowjones said:


> The major problem, Bob, is that if we are to have really good communication, I must express to her, that I'm resentful, which cause her a lot of pain. She cries and apologizes again and again, and says she is worthless, etc. Our counselor has talked to her and told her that it is normal for her to have self image problems, but that it is also normal for me to be resentful. We are trying a new process that when I'm feeling pissed about the images I have and when she is feeling low and full of guilt, we tell each other immediately and do something we both like to do, together, and talk it out, while we are doing so. It works pretty good.


I never thought of that way of doing it but I think it’s a fabulous way of working through resentment.

I think the single biggest thing is your acceptance of the “realness” of resentment. The second the underlying belief that to go forward and in positive way to build a happy and lasting marriage, resentment will prevent that from happing so it must be worked through and resolved, most importantly together as a team. And then you found a way of doing this together. That’s truly wonderful. Did the new counsellor help with this or was it something you conceived of yourself?

I can’t see at all that you have low self esteem Dow, in fact far from it. But your wife has and it was probably there before this whole thing started. For me, because I don’t have low self esteem I found it very difficult to understand it. In fact I don’t understand low self esteem, I don’t think I’m capable of understanding it although I do know the effects of it. Do you understand low self esteem?

Low self esteem, although I don’t understand it, can I think be the underlying reason for many problems in a marriage. Maybe it would be good in a while to find out the cause of your wife’s low self esteem, it may go right back to childhood or be caused by her not being able to have children, and help her change it.

Bob


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## Dowjones

I'm pretty sure that my wife's self-image problems stem from her medical problems. None of this, the affair, the communication problems, were present before she began to experience all of her medical issues, compounded by the easy pregnancy of the other women in her family. She was really looking forward to child-bearing. We have a house full of parenting books, childrens toys and clothes, etc. Our counselor was very specific about this being her (wife's) biggest problem.


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## AFEH

I can understand that. I wonder if it's worse than having a failed pregnancy, I think it probably is. These are massive things in life, probably nothing else comes remotely close to it. I'm guessing she's been traumatised. You both have your stuff to work through, it's so good you two are doing it together, working together on your emotions.

Bob


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