# How much can I, or should I believe?



## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

My W, as I discussed in detail in the "bipolar freakshow" thread, I figured, via going over her traits in that thread, is most likely BPD (I'm 99% sure now).

She doesn't talk to her family anymore at all. When I had initially met her, she was speaking with them but staying at a relatives house. 

She told me her step-dad (he's still there) had molested her several times sometime shortly after she hit puberty, and her mother was both physically and mentally abusive. 

About her mom, there is no doubt. This woman is a monster, and according to my W, was also abused by her mother. This abuse equated to random beatings, regular beatings, and constant mental abuse, which I've witnessed the mental abuse in mild forms with her younger siblings at family functions long ago.

All her siblings, now in adulthood, still live at home. Two of the sibs deny any abuse, other than the mother just being mostly angry and yelling all the time (a b1tch, basically).

She had went to the police when she was in her early teens about the abuse. Both parents denied the sexual abuse, and after a few hearings, apparently "beat" the charges, although the W was placed into foster care. Her closest sibling in age also denies it ever happened. The parents only ever brought it up once in front of me, basically making an offhand comment about how much trouble she caused them when she was a teen.

Now.. what I saw then, was a family trying to include her. Sure, they are dysfunctional, and frankly, horrible people by my judgment, which is why I have no issues with not speaking to them. But.. I wonder.. how much of what she told me is really true? Her brother even denies the beatings ever happened. Her sister confided in me that she was abused as a very young child (physically, not sexually) by my W!! 

My W did tell me once that she did it and felt horrible about it- that she merely was doing it because her mom did it to her and it was her way of venting. Really, she was just a child at the time, so how much stock should I put into it? 

Anyways.. Now, I'm starting to really wonder how much is truth vs. fiction. Should I go behind her back and open a dialogue with them? Should I bring this stuff up and get their side of the story? Have I been guilty of judging them wrongly because of my W's word? I'm starting to question everything now.. could these people be instrumental in testifying at the D when it happens? I do plan to leave her soon as I get preparations in place, but I'm doing everything in secret because of how notorious BPD'ers apparently are when it comes to this.

Anyone else deal with these circumstances, or have some input?


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

How much do you want to believe and what difference will it make to you, to her and the relationship?


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm not sure.. I just know that something I once took as her word, which are serious allegations, I now question. I'm wondering if BPD'ers are known for being compulsive liars as well? I dunno, guess I'm just trying to make sense of things.

In a way, I guess I'm trying to decide if she had honestly opened up to me, or if she's openly manipulating me.. her intentions may have an impact in my decision to leave or not, or maybe when..


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## motherofone (Jan 10, 2013)

Someone with BPD has you constantly in this state like standing in a rocking canoe. 

In the end it may not matter what she said or if she lied or if she exaggerated. She told you something in an attention seeking moment. 

Abuse is a common theme among BPD but to be honest I too don't know that I could believe the claims my own mother made. 

I think you need to make a decision for you and not as a third party recount of something in the past.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm BPD and I'm not a liar. 

Oh and if you met my parents when they were younger you'd totally think they were the coolest people ever. They faked the happy family well. 

And its normal for siblings to not remember events because it's their way of coping. My sister and I totally have two different versions of life at home. We each had our dysfunctional roles to play.

Oh and I was completely mean to my younger sister. Crap rolls downhill....


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

IMO, whether shes lying or not about those things, probably doesn't matter. What matters most is, she clearly has some mental issues. To my knowledge people are not born with BPD so , a lot of times people with things such as BPD usually do have some form of severe damage, as in something traumatic happened to them at some point in their childhood. I'm not saying that ALL people with things such as BPD have had beatings, sexual abuse etc, but most have had some form of a traumatic event happen. Also a family who did the beatings is not likely to say they did. And yes that includes the siblings too, perhaps the siblings want to protect their parents awful behavior, it does happen.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

I guess it's all moot. I do get the "rocking canoe" analogy- In fact, I feel like I'm caught in a catch .22 .. the only way to stop it from rocking (as much) is to be the enabler and live with her and constantly coddle her crazy, but following the bpdfamily.com guidelines causes the boat to utterly wretch side to side nonstop.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Kaboom said:


> I guess it's all moot. I do get the "rocking canoe" analogy- In fact, I feel like I'm caught in a catch .22 .. the only way to stop it from rocking (as much) is to be the enabler and live with her and constantly coddle her crazy, but following the bpdfamily.com guidelines causes the boat to utterly wretch side to side nonstop.


Being an enabler usually makes things worse, and it keeps the person with the issue stuck longer in not having to take responsibility for their behavior. Have either of you been to therapy? I have not read your other thread so I do not know your whole background story.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

trey69 said:


> Being an enabler usually makes things worse, and it keeps the person with the issue stuck longer in not having to take responsibility for their behavior. Have either of you been to therapy? I have not read your other thread so I do not know your whole background story.


we tried a counselor for a while and nothing was resolved. I think BPD traits are beyond most of the counselors ability to comprehend or advise on. They may not recognize it as what it is, but I think they all sense irrationality.. and how can anyone ever have an honest session with someone who refuses to see logic and rationale? She wants to try MC again, but we simply can't afford it.. if you read my other thread, you will see she's also pointedly keeping us poor by going on spending sprees.. something I believe she's doing to make sure I can't leave easily, or even afford a motel room for the night. Just a guess though. Part of me also thinks she's doing it to punish me for fighting back.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Kaboom said:


> she's also pointedly keeping us poor by going on spending sprees.. something I believe she's doing to make sure I can't leave easily, or even afford a motel room for the night.


Where is the money coming from?


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

In the short-term, decreasing enabling results in significantly increased conflict - you're absolutely right about that.

In the long-term, generally speaking, enabling results in things getting worse. Enabling, after all, is basically cleaning up after someone else's dysfunctional behaviors. If you followed me around and picked up after me at no charge, I'd become noticeably messier. The same applies to your marriage.

OTOH, if you stop enabling bad behavior, following escalation, there's usually a measurable immediate change. Not to normal behavior, but probably towards something close to the initial 6-12 months of the R/S, when the S/O was reasonably functional. There also seems to be a measurable shift from outwardly directed to inwardly directed harm.

Personally, I'm not subtle - so after due diligence in terms of MC, drugs, and therapy, I moved to:

'Congratulations, you beat me, say hi to a jail cell. Btw, I'm planning on divorce and sole custody unless you try therapy (DBT) immediately and stick to it. We'll review again in 6 months.' : So, her immediate reaction was to shift from hitting me to hitting herself, mostly. And start therapy - mind you - she self-diagnosed.
'You understand, separate accounts will be a PITA for you. No, you don't have access to most of our savings. That's because you're crazy.': Never really challenged me on this one - well once - but I kind of understood the rationale. 
'No. I'm leaving. Yes. You're melting down. Beating yourself black and blue will be embarrassing tomorrow. You're terrible at makeup.': It is hard to leave someone alone and let them hurt themselves.
'Oh look, you jumped out of the car. Have a nice walk.': Honestly, I wimped out and followed her if the neighborhood was bad. Rapidly, she started only jumping out within easy walking of home while wearing sneakers. 
'Oh look. Crazy driving. You don't drive with me in the car anymore.': That was a scary one.
'Yes, if you don't like this, the door is thataway.': Realistically, part of the reason she stays with you is because you put up with her. If that changes, she may leave. Or not.

Oh, we were lucky enough to find out that our health insurance covered MC - many that cover therapy also cover MC.

My wife's extraordinarily honest and she is, or possibly was, a BPD. Of course, she's probably also mildly autistic. She was physically abused, with possibly a mild sexual component. But, she thinks that she had a real predisposition towards crazy. It wasn't so much that she went through anything usually horrific - she just isn't good at dealing with normal life.

I dunno. Some BPDs lie, some don't. Given that the mother is actually horrific, I would tend to not start up a relationship involving horrific people. I'd also, I dunno, feel guilty about asking in-laws to take sides against a relative - it'd tend to blow up what'll remain of her support network. She may be BPD, but she's also human, and the harm/benefit tradeoffs may not be worth it - unless your lawyer thinks that sort of thing is key to custody issues. If you want to accomplish something along those lines, MCs can testify and a few months of MC might be time/money well-invested.

--Argyle


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The lovely Dr. Mrs. BPD never lies. She simply refuses to accept realities that disturb her state of mind.. So she will present facts as they are but with her own interpretation. Kind of like Fox News 

As far as enabling, one can enable a thing or two here and there to make them feel they are getting something but in general, no, no point enabling. What worked for us was the understanding that visits to crazy town (Illogicon) were to be met with equally unpleasant and undesirable responses.


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