# Ugh.. Not again..



## jamie323

This isnt about 'marriage' but, about a relationship. I hope it is OK to post here. I havent been here in a while..

I got back on the horse after taking a while off. I moved to a major city and changed up my life. I have been dating (what I thought was?) a really awesome chick for about 6 months. We live only a few blocks away from each other. She has a lot of friends up here, however, I have only been here for about a year and dont have that many friends yet. We have plans to go to Paris (tickets bought, hotel booked and paid for, etc)

Anyway, everything has been very good up until this last Friday. She had plans to go out with a girlfriend for happy hour, because her friend is moving away, then we were going to meet up around 9. At around 8:45 she texted to say that she was not going to be able to make it to meet me, and that she and her friend were going to go downtown to get a bite to eat and have a few drinks. I only heard from her once more around 10 with her saying how sexy she thought I was, then nothing else that night. In itself, that is not unusual - we both are not big texters if we are with friends. I think its rude if someone is using their phone if they are with me. Problem is - I kind of expected a text good-night, or *something* later that night. Its not that hard to go to the bathroom and send a quick text. I got nothing other than that weird out of nowhere text. Based on past experiences, I was obviously concerned.

The next morning she called (very unusual) and said she got me coffee and wanted to meet up. So we meet up and she tells me that they were out super late, and her girlfriend and a couple of her friends came over, and they partied all night. There were a couple of types of empty beers around. However, she was sketchy on the details as to who came over. This was odd, because she has a TINY apartment. Where did these people stay? I could tell she was super hungover, so I let it go for the time being. We went out and met some of her friends for dinner later, and she recounted the same story to one of her best friends 'she met her girlfriend for drinks, they went out for dinner and she had a steak, and it was great and that her and her friends came over to hang out and they had a sleepover.

The next day, I confronted her about this. I basically said 'listen Im a bit pissed off about friday, what you did was not cool.' As soon as I said that her expression turned to absolute terror. Her eyes went wide, and she looked absolutely freaked. I said 'You bailed on me, then you didnt talk to me any more during the evening. That really didn't make me feel good'. Her expression changed to that of relief. I caught it, completely. Im sure she did not notice. She apologized, and said that sometimes if she goes out for the evening with friends, she doesn't want to use her phone, but that she was sorry. She said that she refuses to change and use her phone when she is with friends. I let it go for the time being. I did not accuse her of anything.

Anyway, this morning I was at her place. I *knew* something was up, and that it was extremely possible she was lying to me. Every red flag was there. She had given me her phone password once before and said she had nothing to hide, she doesn't mind me having it. So... I checked her text messages. There were a lot of text that were not suspicious. However, there was one to a guy: there was only one word from her the friday she was supposedly with her friends: the name of a bar. Then there was a message from him from the night after: 'Hey, Im so tired but you should come over'. She had a written response that she had failed to hit send on: 'Hey, I think that should be a one time thing, I dont want to ruin our friendship'. Needless to say , I was thinking 'wtf'. So I checked the messages from the friend she said she was with, and that friday they cancelled happy hour together. 

So: She lied to me about going to happy hour. She lied to me *and a bunch of her friends* about who she was with. She made me feel sort of bad for seeming to 'check up on her'. On top of that, Im thinking she pretty obviously slept with this guy at her apartment, in the bed that her and I sleep in often.

I havent confronted yet - Im sort of freaked. Do I tell her tonight: Im done with you? Or do I go ahead and go to Paris with her, have a good time, and then dump her? Do I confront and then see what she says and play by ear? or do I just brush it under the rug and wait to see if she admits it until after Paris, and if she hasnt yet - bring it up? I dunno.. I really care about her, but my opinion of her has changed dramatically. It took everything I had not to wake her up and say 'F you, its over'. Honestly, I could cancel Paris, lose a few hundred bucks and really screw her over - We are going to Paris to go to her sister's wedding. I could send an email to her Sister and her best friend and tell her the reason we are not going to Paris. However, I need to be sure.

Sorry for the rant.

-


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## Allen_A

Don't date bar-hoppers.

If she goes to bars and "parties all night", she's not commitment-minded.

Sorry, just the facts.


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## alte Dame

Don't you think that your knowledge of who she is - a liar and cheat - would ruin Paris for you? I would tell her it's over now.


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## badmemory

I have to assume that you two have an understanding that you are in a "committed" relationship. If so, I would be done with her and would not go to Paris "with her".

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't go to Paris. If you've never been you owe it to yourself to go.


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## syhoybenden

Why put yourself through that over a few bucks. You know what she did. 
Tell her you can't make it and she should just go ahead and have a nice life. See you around. Buh-bye.


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## weightlifter

If non refundable:

Id do the Paris thing then bluff a confession out of her.

"I did not want to wreck the vacation but, Who was he?"

VARs hidden will then catch all the proof you would need as she calls her friends from that night but do you need more and bother?

Better now than after a ring bought.

Sorry.


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## lyndyb

She has lied and you know she has cheated. Just ended it don't go through this again with another woman. Move on quickly


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## warlock07

man, I was just thinking about you the other day when a username that looked familiar.


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## jamie323

Honestly, I have basically been living the dream. I have an apt. in a great city, and have met a few good people here. I really thought this woman was great, and now things are just screwy. Im not crying over this at all - which might be a sign. 

I really should go to Paris.. How do I handle this? Do I confront and ask for the truth? (just saying something like 'in my gut, I feel that you are not telling the truth about Friday'. Do I just get a refund on her ticket and go myself and have fun?

I really hate this, I wish life could be more simple, and that people were more caring an honest. Im beginning to believe that people are just generally no good.


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## Hicks

Dump her and cancel your trip. It sucks, but why get drawn further into her crap?


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## warlock07

Do you think you can still enjoy a Paris trip with her ?


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## weightlifter

"I know what happened. Who was he?"
"why?" (If you wish.)
Be the strong man.


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## Squeakr

You owe the sister nothing. If you paid for the trip and she is definitely lying to you (more than likely cheating as well or she wouldn't lie), then you shouldn't be the "wallet" in this situation. If you want to go to Paris alone, cancel her ticket and go by yourself, just don't go to the wedding, or cancel it altogether, but there is no reason that you should be making the trip with someone that you can't nor want to trust at this point. She didn't want to spend the other night with you, as she had better options, and you are nothing more than plan b to her, so why would you want to travel to Paris and spend time with her (knowing where you really stand)?

Sorry you are here, but better finding out now than years down the road when maybe kids are involved, shared property, etc and breaking free is much harder to do.


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## Philat

weightlifter said:


> "I know what happened. Who was he?"
> "why?" (If you wish.)
> Be the strong man.


:iagree: From your description of how you feel you don't have anything to lose by confronting now. If she denies, plays the privacy card or attempts to spin just say "OK, whatever. Bye."


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## PHTlump

Next her. If you can cancel the trip with a small penalty, then dump her now. If you can't, then go on the trip, have fun, and dump her when you get back.

Good luck.


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## jamie323

Squeakr said:


> You owe the sister nothing. If you paid for the trip and she is definitely lying to you (more than likely cheating as well or she wouldn't lie), then you shouldn't be the "wallet" in this situation. If you want to go to Paris alone, cancel her ticket and go by yourself, just don't go to the wedding, or cancel it altogether, but there is no reason that you should be making the trip with someone that you can't nor want to trust at this point. She didn't want to spend the other night with you, as she had better options, and you are nothing more than plan b to her, so why would you want to travel to Paris and spend time with her (knowing where you really stand)?
> 
> Sorry you are here, but better finding out now than years down the road when maybe kids are involved, shared property, etc and breaking free is much harder to do.


Im not the wallet.. she paid me for her ticket, and for half of the accommodations in Paris.


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## syhoybenden

jamie323 said:


> Im not the wallet.. she paid me for her ticket, and for half of the accommodations in Paris.


Then she can still go and just downsize her accommodations.

Scrape her off your shoe, man.


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## Satya

Don't reward her lying with a Paris trip. Take a friend instead.


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## jamie323

Satya said:


> Don't reward her lying with a Paris trip. Take a friend instead.


Its a bit late for that - she paid for her ticket and half the accommodations. If I wanted to screw her over, I could just cancel her ticket and go myself. (and not tell her until the last minute) However, Im not a mean person.. Although, that thought keeps crossing my mind.


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## GutPunch

End it. No other way around it. Thank goodness you aren't married.


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## U.E. McGill

Next. Kick her to the curb now. Don't tolerate bad behavior ever. She's not wifed up yet so no loss. 

Seriously don't fall for the "sunk cost" fallacy. Nonrefundable doesn't mean you loose your money. Just that you have to pay a change fee (typically $250 plus the fare difference). Book it somewhere else and go have fun!


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## badmemory

jamie323 said:


> Its a bit late for that - she paid for her ticket and half the accommodations. If I wanted to screw her over, I could just cancel her ticket and go myself. (and not tell her until the last minute) However, Im not a mean person.. Although, that thought keeps crossing my mind.


Can you not afford to give her money back? 

Look, I'd of course confront her. It's very evident she's cheating; and she needs to know why you're dumping her. If she still wants to go see her sister, why not just change seats on the plane and change the hotel arrangements. Then you could both go separately.


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## GutPunch

badmemory said:


> Can you not afford to give her money back?
> 
> Look, I'd of course confront her. It's very evident she's cheating; and she needs to know why you're dumping her. If she still wants to go see her sister, why not just change seats on the plane and change the hotel arrangements. Then you could both go separately.


She knows exactly why she's getting dumped. End it. Get your money back and go to Vegas with a buddy.


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## manfromlamancha

Whether you go to Paris or not is up to you - but I would definitely end the relationship before going to Paris and maybe have single rooms (instead of a double) and you not go to the wedding but enjoy the restaurants, museums, markets of Paris.


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## Lostinthought61

The funny thing about doubt is that it NEVER rests until its gone...and on top of that, i suspect she feels guilty for something....getting on a plane for 8 hours together will not help the situation...i think you need to meet at a quiet place and ask her to be honest with you what happen friday night...that you read her body language and what she was saying did not match what her body was saying ? and then just look at her don't say another word, look at the way she moves her hands around and if she starts to look to the left or stares at you when she speaks...those are markers if she is not being honest. 

I truly pray it is not bad for your sake and the sake of your relationship with her.


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## Allen_A

syhoybenden said:


> Scrape her off your shoe, man.


OK, I feel horrible, but that one made me chuckle.

You guys are batting a thousand today. lol


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## xakulax

This is just my opinion if I where you knowing what you know about her behavior I would go to pairs with her have some fun wine and dine then go visit the Eiffel tower for a romantic viewing of the city and when she as happy as she can be I would say c'est fini avoir une vie agréable. and walk away.


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## tulsy

Ya, don't go to Paris with her...next thing you know you'll be sweeping it under the rug and back in-love with her cheating azz. Paris is a romantic city, and you don't go there with someone who just cheated on you.

If she paid for her ticket and half the accommodation, cancel your ticket and like someone suggested, go to Vegas with a bro.

This chick is untrustworthy. She's a lying tramp. Don't waste any more time with her. So many more women out there, this one is no good.

Lucky to know who she is early on.


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## SpinDaddy

*Howdy Jamie 323:*

At first I thought you two should discuss. But you have and what she’s said does not correlate with what you know. And that “reasonableness” is what people like this count upon. Minimally, she’s not being wholly truthful and that in and of itself is enough. 

Consider this a gift, you’re short into the relationship and it’s clear you’re not being dealt with in an entirely honest manner. Pick up and move on now.

I think most who’ve been betrayed were given advance signs which they ignored. “Give the benefit of the doubt,” “Hey it was just a chance thing and nothing happened,” etc, etc. Meh, the cheater will do it again and again – they know they can get away with it. 

You know the stichk and so do I. Cash out and walk away, the cards are loaded and the table is dirty.


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## jamie323

SpinDaddy said:


> *Howdy Jamie 323:*
> 
> At first I thought you two should discuss. But you have and what she’s said does not correlate with what you know. And that “reasonableness” is what people like this count upon. Minimally, she’s not being wholly truthful and that in and of itself is enough.
> 
> Consider this a gift, you’re short into the relationship and it’s clear you’re not being dealt with in an entirely honest manner. Pick up and move on now.
> 
> I think most who’ve been betrayed were given advance signs which they ignored. “Give the benefit of the doubt,” “Hey it was just a chance thing and nothing happened,” etc, etc. Meh, the cheater will do it again and again – they know they can get away with it.
> 
> You know the stichk and so do I. Cash out and walk away, the cards are loaded and the table is dirty.


yeah.. Well, according to her texts she obviously cheated and probably had sex with the guy. Im thinking she is feeling super guilty now, thats why she said 'no, I cant see you again' to that guy. (or at least started to, but didnt hit send) I dont really need any more evidence, I just need to pull the trigger.


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## weightlifter

It hurts BUT
beats hurts+alimony+child support

This is exactly what dating is for.
Vetting a potential partner.

Hint: She failed.

Just find whatever level of confession you need or want to try for.


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## badmemory

jamie323 said:


> I dont really need any more evidence, I just need to pull the trigger.


For this early in your relationship; I completely agree.


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## Ceegee

I wouldn't even confront on this one. 

You don't seem invested enough to put up with this crap.

Blow her off. Next time she calls or texts just say "you're not who I thought you were. Good bye."


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## jamie323

Ceegee said:


> I wouldn't even confront on this one.
> 
> You don't seem invested enough to put up with this crap.
> 
> Blow her off. Next time she calls or texts just say "you're not who I thought you were. Good bye."


yeah, I think paris is just clouding the deal. I just wonder if she is doing the same thing.. I just have to think of the best way to handle it. I appreciate the advise, guys. (and gals)


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## tulsy

jamie323 said:


> ... I dont really need any more evidence, I just need to pull the trigger.


Then what are you waiting for?

Like a band-aid....you don't sit there and look at it, ponder over it, then peel it off slow, you RIP it off and deal with it right then and there.

No time like the present. It's actually quite refreshing, taking action and moving on. Going with her to Paris only to postpone the inevitable breakup is pathetic. Don't waste your time...not the way you want to remember Paris, and think about that flight home...freekin nightmare.


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## tulsy

Ceegee said:


> I wouldn't even confront on this one.
> 
> You don't seem invested enough to put up with this crap.
> 
> Blow her off. Next time she calls or texts just say "you're not who I thought you were. Good bye."


:iagree:

I like this. 

You're not the one who has to explain anything. She deserves the blow off.


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## happi_g_more2

jamie323 said:


> yeah.. Well, according to her texts she obviously cheated and probably had sex with the guy. Im thinking she is feeling super guilty now, thats why she said 'no, I cant see you again' to that guy. (or at least started to, but didnt hit send) I dont really need any more evidence, I just need to pull the trigger.


Ive been in your boat a few times. You have GOT to tell her that you know. Then, in all honesty, judging from how you are describing things, you gotta break it off and forget paris. That is unless you are cool with this. I mean, if you see yourselves and friends and **** buddies with no ties, then go have fun my man. but if you feel betrayed by her, then thats not really a solid foundation for friendship. 

Honestly, and I have actually done this 1 time to get a chick to confess (she was a dirtbag, and I didn't really have strong feelings for her, so I was comfortable with this...i just had to hear her say it). Get her alone, in her place (cant be a place where she can just walk away from you, or your place cause if you try and keep her their thats kind of against the law). anyway, alone in her place and just bust out with..."so I got a really weird call yesterday. A guy named "dirtbag OM" called and just said "i wanted to let you know I ****ed your girlfriend friday night". In my case, she spilled the beans immediately, i told her to **** off and never talked to her again...except for 2 hours later when she called me and said "You liar, i called "OM and he doesnt even know who you are". I just laughed and went on with my life.

Just an option


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## happi_g_more2

happi_g_more2 said:


> Ive been in your boat a few times. You have GOT to tell her that you know. Then, in all honesty, judging from how you are describing things, you gotta break it off and forget paris. That is unless you are cool with this. I mean, if you see yourselves and friends and **** buddies with no ties, then go have fun my man. but if you feel betrayed by her, then thats not really a solid foundation for friendship.
> 
> Honestly, and I have actually done this 1 time to get a chick to confess (she was a dirtbag, and I didn't really have strong feelings for her, so I was comfortable with this...i just had to hear her say it). Get her alone, in her place (cant be a place where she can just walk away from you, or your place cause if you try and keep her their thats kind of against the law). anyway, alone in her place and just bust out with..."so I got a really weird call yesterday. A guy named "dirtbag OM" called and just said "i wanted to let you know I ****ed your girlfriend friday night". In my case, she spilled the beans immediately, i told her to **** off and never talked to her again...except for 2 hours later when she called me and said "You liar, i called "OM and he doesnt even know who you are". I just laughed and went on with my life.
> 
> Just an option


One more thing i forgot to mention. When I did this, i actually recall really steeling myself to get a response like "Yeah, i ****ed him, you suck in bed, get out of my house". Cause it could go something like that too.


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## jamie323

happi_g_more2 said:


> One more thing i forgot to mention. When I did this, i actually recall really steeling myself to get a response like "Yeah, i ****ed him, you suck in bed, get out of my house". Cause it could go something like that too.


Im not really cool on lying to out a liar.. It seems counterproductive. Im going to put it out there when I see her next. 'Do you have anything weighing on your mind - I can tell something has been bothering you since Friday'

See what happens, then most likely say adios.


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## warlock07

And just tell her that you know and to go dark on her. Does she have stuff at your place ? Pack them up.

All you will get will be more lies, excuses,rationalizations and tears when you meet in person.

Did you guys discuss infidelity ? Does she know of your ex ?


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## jamie323

What is really weird about this whole thing is that I never saw this coming.. We spend almost every day together.. We go out, have fun together, dinner, drinks, staying home, just walking in the park.. Our sex life is amazing - I would say that we have sex 9 out of 10 times we see each other. I have no idea what would cause this to suddenly happen. I told her about my ex, and what she did to me. She knows exactly what happened. She said her ex was a cheat - he was super jealous, yet was cheating with women from ******* while they were together.

There were zero other texts from this guy from friday, but he was saved in her contacts. Just the message with the name of a bar, and then him asking her to come over at 2:30am, and then her un-sent negative response. Was she talking to him and just deleted all the messages? That doesn't make sense - because the most incriminating messages where still there: The name of a bar that I *know*, and him asking for her to come over at 2am However, the messages from her girlfriend were obvious. They canceled the happy hour. Two hours later my GF messaged me and said she was with her girlfriend, and would be out late with her.(the girlfriend who, according to texts, seemed to be canceling her plans) I didn't check call logs, could she have called this girlfriend and made the plans?

What could have happened? Her behavior these last few days indicates a level of guilt that is pretty common with a remorseful person. She called me the next morning as soon as she got up (she never calls) and went to get me coffee..

I didn't mention this before, but last night we were talking about friday,and how I was upset by it.. and she actually started to tear up, before she quickly went to the outside to have a cigarette. Like she didnt want me to see her cry. She came back in, and I could tell she had cried a bit. She disguised the tears as coming from her being upset that people these days have to be so tied to their cell phones and that her other friends have complained about the same thing - her not responding to texts, etc. I have a feeling she was crying because of how miserable she may feel about cheating on me.

I dont feel bad for her, she should feel miserable, if she cheated.. I just dont want to be wrong about this, and tell her to kiss off before being pretty sure. This all seems so incredibly out of character. I have met all of her friends, Im going to meet her parents in a couple of weeks, etc. It really makes zero sense.


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## jack.c

Well..... i guess you know the answer. 
I would not cancel the trip, i would go anyway, but without her! Take a friend with you instead, and say to her: a friend of mine, who was cheated on, needs my help....he found out about a lying GF and i realized we had alot in common... sorry .


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## Squeakr

Cut your losses while you can. She is definitely cheating on you. She is even avoiding talking to others, so may have been doing it for lots longer than you think. Having the name saved in her contacts is a huge red flag, as that means this is someone that she has known for a while and it was not just someone she met that night. Stop being played and move on. Believe me from experience, if she is doing this now, it will only be a matter of time after you are married that she is doing it again.


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## Squeakr

jack.c said:


> Well..... i guess you know the answer.
> I would not cancel the trip, i would go anyway, but without her! Take a friend with you instead, and say to her: a friend of mine, who was cheated on, needs my help....he found out about a lying GF and i realized we had alot in common... sorry .


Except that if she has paid for her share, as he stated earlier, he really can't just take away the things she has paid for. He would need to give back the money if he still has it. I could then see this whole episode on Judge Judy as she sues him for ruining her sister's wedding. LOL


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## badmemory

jamie323 said:


> What is really weird about this whole thing is that I never saw this coming.. We spend almost every day together.. We go out, have fun together, dinner, drinks, staying home, just walking in the park.. Our sex life is amazing - I would say that we have sex 9 out of 10 times we see each other. I have no idea what would cause this to suddenly happen. I told her about my ex, and what she did to me. She knows exactly what happened. She said her ex was a cheat - he was super jealous, yet was cheating with women from ******* while they were together.
> 
> There were zero other texts from this guy from friday, but he was saved in her contacts. Just the message with the name of a bar, and then him asking her to come over at 2:30am, and then her un-sent negative response. Was she talking to him and just deleted all the messages? That doesn't make sense - because the most incriminating messages where still there: The name of a bar that I *know*, and him asking for her to come over at 2am However, the messages from her girlfriend were obvious. They canceled the happy hour. Two hours later my GF messaged me and said she was with her girlfriend, and would be out late with her.(the girlfriend who, according to texts, seemed to be canceling her plans) I didn't check call logs, could she have called this girlfriend and made the plans?
> 
> What could have happened? Her behavior these last few days indicates a level of guilt that is pretty common with a remorseful person. She called me the next morning as soon as she got up (she never calls) and went to get me coffee..
> 
> I didn't mention this before, but last night we were talking about friday,and how I was upset by it.. and she actually started to tear up, before she quickly went to the outside to have a cigarette. Like she didnt want me to see her cry. She came back in, and I could tell she had cried a bit. She disguised the tears as coming from her being upset that people these days have to be so tied to their cell phones and that her other friends have complained about the same thing - her not responding to texts, etc. I have a feeling she was crying because of how miserable she may feel about cheating on me.
> 
> I dont feel bad for her, she should feel miserable, if she cheated.. I just dont want to be wrong about this, and tell her to kiss off before being pretty sure. This all seems so incredibly out of character. I have met all of her friends, Im going to meet her parents in a couple of weeks, etc. It really makes zero sense.


I'd confront her and start out with asking her to tell you again what she did that night. Catch her in that lie.

Tell her you know that was cancelled. Ask her what she did instead. Ask her how you could believe this next lie, when you saw her and his text messages.

Then you simply say - You lied to me twice, I know you met up with him and there's no way on earth that any rational person would believe you didn't have sex with him - given that. At least I can thank you for revealing to me who you are before we went further with our relationship. I wish you the best. 

Then tell her how you've decided to handle the Paris thing.


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## jack.c

Squeakr said:


> Except that if she has paid for her share, as he stated earlier, he really can't just take away the things she has paid for. He would need to give back the money if he still has it. I could then see this whole episode on Judge Judy as she sues him for ruining her sister's wedding. LOL



ugh! that sucks! he can always organize a meetup!
Him, her and a cuople of friends wher is also her gf......
and then come up with the subject! lol!


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## motl

Sell your ticket and part of the trip to a friend or even Craigslist it. Have the buyer deliver a "Have a nice life" note to her at the airport and smile as she gets stuck 'enjoying' Paris with a stranger.


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## weightlifter

Her remorse is her key. Use my script. If you do soon you may get a relatively easy confession. 

Do note a confession would likely give you one thing vs just a blow off: True closure. IE you are sure she cheated and are sure there was nothing to save. I also would not go spy route for this one. Too much effort for too early.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

jamie323 said:


> Honestly, I have basically been living the dream. I have an apt. in a great city, and have met a few good people here. I really thought this woman was great, and now things are just screwy. Im not crying over this at all - which might be a sign. *Because you're smart enough to know that you don't need a cheater/liar in your life.*
> 
> I really should go to Paris.. How do I handle this? Do I confront and ask for the truth? (just saying something like 'in my gut, I feel that you are not telling the truth about Friday'. Do I just get a refund on her ticket and go myself and have fun? *I totally disagree with taking her to Paris and THEN confronting! Why reward cheating/lying behavior with a trip to Paris? Why confront? Why ask for the truth? She won't tell you the truth! Look, you KNOW the truth! Surely you're not saying that unless she 'confesses' or unless you see him screwing her with your own eyeballs you aren't going to believe it!?! Because, really, you're both grown-ups and you KNOW what happened. The fact that she lies to EVERYONE about her life is a really BIG RED FLAG.
> 
> Refund her ticket and let HER worry about getting to Paris by herself (or with BarBoy she's been screwing!) Take YOURSELF to Paris (pay to change flight or seats or hotel)...you may meet some AWESOME people there who are also in love with big-city life! Who knows WHO you might meet (platonic, new best friend, woman of your dreams, totally fun people, etc.)*
> 
> I really hate this, I wish life could be more simple, and that people were more caring an honest. Im beginning to believe that people are just generally no good.


Have you done any WORK on YOURSELF since your last breakup? If not, then you can't expect to be attracted to new, better, healthier relationships if you're the same old broken you. FIX YOU FIRST. THEN worry about finding a new "forever" love. If you don't, all of your gf's will be like this...they'll just have a new name!

Go ENJOY Paris! As a 57-yo, I'm telling you that you WON'T regret going to Paris and seeing what's there. You WILL regret NOT going to Paris when you had then chance as a young, single footloose young man!

Best wishes in 2014! And, BTW, do go get an STD test THIS WEEK just for your own peace of mind! If major drinking was involved (and it WAS), then chances of responsible condom-usage probably went right out the window!


----------



## GusPolinski

jamie323 said:


> yeah.. Well, according to her texts she obviously cheated and probably had sex with the guy. Im thinking she is feeling super guilty now, thats why she said 'no, I cant see you again' to that guy. (or at least started to, but didnt hit send) I dont really need any more evidence, I just need to pull the trigger.


Upon finding that, I'd have hit the "Send" button myself, and then proceeded to watch the impending fallout.


----------



## happi_g_more2

jamie323 said:


> Im not really cool on lying to out a liar.. It seems counterproductive. Im going to put it out there when I see her next. 'Do you have anything weighing on your mind - I can tell something has been bothering you since Friday'
> 
> See what happens, then most likely say adios.


thats cool. Im a little more vindictive then most. The problem i have is that Im one to sit around for trickle truths. if you cheat on me, i want the info and want it now so i can cut you out and move on. how long/far are you gonna let her lie? will you get to the point where you will just say "look, i know"


----------



## alte Dame

You sound like you are slowly talking yourself into what you want things to be rather than what they are. If you give lip service to the cheating and lying and then keep going with her, you're in for trouble down the line, both with her cheating and with your own sense of umbrage about the betrayal. Just saying.

And we have all noticed that she didn't press 'send' on the text turning him down. Did she go over there that night? Or was she with you when she received it?


----------



## Satya

*Re: Re: Ugh.. Not again..*



jamie323 said:


> Its a bit late for that - she paid for her ticket and half the accommodations. If I wanted to screw her over, I could just cancel her ticket and go myself. (and not tell her until the last minute) However, Im not a mean person.. Although, that thought keeps crossing my mind.


Just putting it out there... It's never too late. 

Would you honestly enjoy yourself on holiday with someone you know who has lied to you? Whatever you decide, I hope you don't let her get her way. It's a reward for lying to you.


----------



## Affaircare

jamie323,

This is easy. You two were in an exclusive dating relationship but not married, so there's not legal ties. Just tell her the real truth:

"You were acting weird about Friday. I looked at your phone because you told me you had nothing to hide. I saw that you cancelled the plans with GF and that you told some guy "this has to be a one-time thing" so you lied to me about who you were with and what you were doing. I need someone in my life who will give me 100% of her affection and loyalty, and even knowing my past you gave both to someone else for one night. I do not choose to be with a partner who will do that even once so we are done. I'm sorry you chose to do that as I truly loved you and it hurts, but it is not okay with me. Please leave now and you will not be hearing from me again."

Regarding Paris, it sounds like you paid for your flight and hotel and she paid for hers...so change your flight timing or hotel and just enjoy the trip as a lovely "vacation" on your own terms.


----------



## jamie323

alte Dame said:


> You sound like you are slowly talking yourself into what you want things to be rather than what they are. If you give lip service to the cheating and lying and then keep going with her, you're in for trouble down the line, both with her cheating and with your own sense of umbrage about the betrayal. Just saying.
> 
> And we have all noticed that she didn't press 'send' on the text turning him down. Did she go over there that night? Or was she with you when she received it?


She was with me, in bed that night. She had forgotten press send a few texts (to other friends as well) that day - or there was a service interruption that caused the texts to not be sent. So it is very possible that she hit send, but it just didnt go.


----------



## jamie323

Affaircare said:


> jamie323,
> 
> This is easy. You two were in an exclusive dating relationship but not married, so there's not legal ties. Just tell her the real truth:
> 
> "You were acting weird about Friday. I looked at your phone because you told me you had nothing to hide. I saw that you cancelled the plans with GF and that you told some guy "this has to be a one-time thing" so you lied to me about who you were with and what you were doing. I need someone in my life who will give me 100% of her affection and loyalty, and even knowing my past you gave both to someone else for one night. I do not choose to be with a partner who will do that even once so we are done. I'm sorry you chose to do that as I truly loved you and it hurts, but it is not okay with me. Please leave now and you will not be hearing from me again."
> 
> Regarding Paris, it sounds like you paid for your flight and hotel and she paid for hers...so change your flight timing or hotel and just enjoy the trip as a lovely "vacation" on your own terms.


You are right.. I am probably trying to whitewash all of this.. From the text messages, and her attitude, it is pretty obvious she had sex with another guy - or at least did something with him to have him asking for more at 2:30 am.

Im going out with a couple of friends tonight, without her. Should I just go dark the rest of the day and night - then confront tomorrow and tell her its over.


----------



## weightlifter

jamie323 said:


> She was with me, in bed that night.


ewww

sorry

ugh

ewww.


----------



## Squeakr

jamie323 said:


> Im going out with a couple of friends tonight, without her. Should I just go dark the rest of the day and night - then confront tomorrow and tell her its over.


Do it tonight before you go out with your friends, then you can have a good time and not be worrying about how you are going to approach her, what you are going to say, etc. and if down you can let your friends cheer you up (tell them why so down so they can help). Otherwise, it will loom out there and make your fun night tonight labored. At leafs this way if you happen to connect with someone tonight, you will feel no obligation to her.


----------



## jamie323

OK, I walked over to her apartment just now - its just a couple blocks over. I have a key, and needed to get the watch I left there the other day, and a few pieces of clothing. I wanted to be sure I left nothing behind. She has a little computer netbook that she has beside the bed. Ive never looked at it - but I opened it up and looked around. She looks to be clearing her history in the browser, there are no photos or anything on the thing.. However, there are a few documents. The old documents are just stuff.. however:

I opened one document - the latest one - written about 4 months before we met. Its basically like a letter to herself, taking stock of all of the guys in her life, like six of them. One is 'the hot wall street guy' one is 'the construction worker who picked me up' one is the 'horse-hung cokehead' one is 'boyfriend material' and get this.. one is 'the boyfriend'. She names the group of them by one superhero name.

Oh. my. god. I left out names, but I recognize 'the boyfriend' as the last guy she was dating who she found out was on *******.. I recognize one of the names from a guy she said she is friends with..Is this a joke? are these just all the guys she has *ever* been with or was she literally juggling all of these guys on top of a boyfriend? None of those guys is the guy who's number I found on her phone.. have got to get out of this immediately. I feel filthy now. Good lord, I need to go get tested for STDs right. now. I literally ran out of there.

what is wrong with people?!


----------



## Thorburn

Affaircare said:


> jamie323,
> 
> This is easy. You two were in an exclusive dating relationship but not married, so there's not legal ties. Just tell her the real truth:
> 
> "You were acting weird about Friday. I looked at your phone because you told me you had nothing to hide. I saw that you cancelled the plans with GF and that you told some guy "this has to be a one-time thing" so you lied to me about who you were with and what you were doing. I need someone in my life who will give me 100% of her affection and loyalty, and even knowing my past you gave both to someone else for one night. I do not choose to be with a partner who will do that even once so we are done. I'm sorry you chose to do that as I truly loved you and it hurts, but it is not okay with me. Please leave now and you will not be hearing from me again."
> 
> Regarding Paris, it sounds like you paid for your flight and hotel and she paid for hers...so change your flight timing or hotel and just enjoy the trip as a lovely "vacation" on your own terms.


:iagree:


----------



## Ceegee

jamie323 said:


> OK, I walked over to her apartment just now - its just a couple blocks over. I have a key, and needed to get the watch I left there the other day, and a few pieces of clothing. I wanted to be sure I left nothing behind. She has a little computer netbook that she has beside the bed. Ive never looked at it - but I opened it up and looked around. She looks to be clearing her history in the browser, there are no photos or anything on the thing.. However, there are a few documents. The old documents are just stuff.. however:
> 
> I opened one document - the latest one - written about 4 months before we met. Its basically like a letter to herself, taking stock of all of the guys in her life, like six of them. One is 'the hot wall street guy' one is 'the construction worker who picked me up' one is the 'horse-hung cokehead' one is 'boyfriend material' and get this.. one is 'the boyfriend'. She names the group of them by one superhero name.
> 
> Oh. my. god. I left out names, but I recognize 'the boyfriend' as the last guy she was dating who she found out was on *******.. I recognize one of the names from a guy she said she is friends with..Is this a joke? are these just all the guys she has *ever* been with or was she literally juggling all of these guys on top of a boyfriend? None of those guys is the guy who's number I found on her phone.. have got to get out of this immediately. I feel filthy now. Good lord, I need to go get tested for STDs right. now. I literally ran out of there.
> 
> what is wrong with people?!



Wow. 

Maybe she does need a confrontation for the good of all mankind.


----------



## happi_g_more2

how old are you jamie? 

Of the reasons that I would love to be younger, this is one that makes me glad Im at the age that I am. My preception of society with facebook, dating sites that cater to hook ups or even affairs, the way sex is pushed down peoples thoats, the wide availability of ED drugs and the genral acceptance of promiscuity. I dont know how in the hell you are younger guys are suppose to find a girl that DOESNT have a history like your ex's


----------



## OldWolf57

J, we know you are feeling bad over the snooping, but don't. your radar was up because of the way she was acting.

She seems to be really into you, but old habit die hard. So walk man. Just walk after telling her all.
You KNOW what went on !!
She broke a date with you even after her friend canceled to hookup.
Why ?? She wanted this guy for a while an maybe this was her last hoorah before she invest all with you.
You saw the relief. Was it for the trip, or was it for deceiving you ??
I say you, but do YOU think you can get pass this?
Only you can answer that. Cause that 7 yr itch thing seem to be for real man.

Sit her down, tell her you will be going, but not with her. Just tell her you know she lied, you checked, and you can't trust her with your heart.

They say here, never give your source away, but I would tell her exactly how you found out. It may help her hide cheating better in the future, but it wont be with you.

The " one time thing" says it all man.


----------



## warlock07

she had 6 bfs before you? why is that such a big deal?


----------



## Hicks

The way I read it, she had a boyfriend but was screwing 5 other guys at the same time... Prior to meeting OP. And he recoginizes what type of girl she is.


----------



## Ceegee

warlock07 said:


> she had 6 bfs before you? why is that such a big deal?


Sounded like they were all at the same time.


----------



## tulsy

jamie323 said:


> OK, I walked over to her apartment just now - its just a couple blocks over. I have a key, and needed to get the watch I left there the other day, and a few pieces of clothing. I wanted to be sure I left nothing behind. She has a little computer netbook that she has beside the bed. Ive never looked at it - but I opened it up and looked around. She looks to be clearing her history in the browser, there are no photos or anything on the thing.. However, there are a few documents. The old documents are just stuff.. however:
> 
> I opened one document - the latest one - written about 4 months before we met. Its basically like a letter to herself, taking stock of all of the guys in her life, like six of them. One is 'the hot wall street guy' one is 'the construction worker who picked me up' one is the 'horse-hung cokehead' one is 'boyfriend material' and get this.. one is 'the boyfriend'. She names the group of them by one superhero name.
> 
> Oh. my. god. I left out names, but I recognize 'the boyfriend' as the last guy she was dating who she found out was on *******.. I recognize one of the names from a guy she said she is friends with..Is this a joke? are these just all the guys she has *ever* been with or was she literally juggling all of these guys on top of a boyfriend? None of those guys is the guy who's number I found on her phone.. have got to get out of this immediately. I feel filthy now. Good lord, I need to go get tested for STDs right. now. I literally ran out of there.
> 
> what is wrong with people?!


----------



## jamie323

warlock07 said:


> she had 6 bfs before you? why is that such a big deal?


The way the letter is phrased, it appears that they were all on her radar at the same time. i.e. : boyfriend, wall-street guy, boyfriend material, etc. There were 6 of them, and she called the 6 of them her 'superhero' basically.. The letter was somewhat rambly, and into very coherent, so it could have meant something else.. but it seems like I am reaching a lot just now to make her text messages, things she has said, and this weird letter into something safe.

I cant really believe it.. we basically spend almost every day together. i dont think she has a bunch of boyfriends, but I see what can happen if she gets unhappy with me. Hell, she is happy with me - but then apparently went and cheated anyway. 

It seems that she is a *****.


----------



## Squeakr

jamie323 said:


> The way the letter is phrased, it appears that they were all on her radar at the same time. i.e. : boyfriend, wall-street guy, boyfriend material, etc. There were 6 of them, and she called the 6 of them her 'superhero' basically.. The letter was somewhat rambly, and into very coherent, so it could have meant something else.. but it seems like I am reaching a lot just now to make her text messages, things she has said, and this weird letter into something safe.
> 
> I cant really believe it.. we basically spend almost every day together. i dont think she has a bunch of boyfriends, but I see what can happen if she gets unhappy with me. Hell, she is happy with me - but then apparently went and cheated anyway.
> 
> It seems that she is a *****.



Time spent together really means nothing as an indication of cheating or not. My WW was arranging times with her OMs even though she was home every night and I could "supposedly" track all of her whereabouts. Turns out she was taking days off, getting up after I went to bed, etc. The unscrupulous will find a way.


----------



## DavidWYoung

You know, you can go to Paris by yourself and have a great time, I have done it about ten times. I live ten hours away by car and 90 minutes by jet.

Life is too short to hang out with lairs and cheats.

This would my 2 cents. David


----------



## jamie323

happi_g_more2 said:


> how old are you jamie?
> 
> Of the reasons that I would love to be younger, this is one that makes me glad Im at the age that I am. My preception of society with facebook, dating sites that cater to hook ups or even affairs, the way sex is pushed down peoples thoats, the wide availability of ED drugs and the genral acceptance of promiscuity. I dont know how in the hell you are younger guys are suppose to find a girl that DOESNT have a history like your ex's


I am early 40s.


----------



## happi_g_more2

jamie323 said:


> I am early 40s.


Man o man. So its not just a generational thing. I was hoping for you you were mid 20's Is she the same age? Not sure if i got this from you but was the letter dated? Are you sure its not fiction? Some chicks like to write about that kind of stuff. Look, in the end, if you guys a 40, you need to sit down like an adult and talk to her about it. Again, up to you if you want to reveal your source, if you think you can make this work as long as she knows from now on your guys are exclusive, that kind of stuff. Sounds like you are def not into her lifestyle though. I personally dont think this is a case for 180. I think 180 is best for married people that need to get their bearings and **** all lined up. For you its clear cut "hey, look, i have this info, its not gonna work with us. bye"


----------



## jamie323

happi_g_more2 said:


> Man o man. So its not just a generational thing. I was hoping for you you were mid 20's Is she the same age? Not sure if i got this from you but was the letter dated? Are you sure its not fiction? Some chicks like to write about that kind of stuff. Look, in the end, if you guys a 40, you need to sit down like an adult and talk to her about it. Again, up to you if you want to reveal your source, if you think you can make this work as long as she knows from now on your guys are exclusive, that kind of stuff. Sounds like you are def not into her lifestyle though. I personally dont think this is a case for 180. I think 180 is best for married people that need to get their bearings and **** all lined up. For you its clear cut "hey, look, i have this info, its not gonna work with us. bye"


She is mid 30s.. not exactly a college kid anymore. The letter was dated 4 months before we met. Sure, it could be fiction.. but it sounded very real. Im not into going out every night, no. I like to go out a couple times a week and spend the rest of my time relaxing or involved in hobbies. She knows we are exclusive. Unless for some reason she is just confused about the whole 'We are boyfriend and girlfriend and love each other' thing.


----------



## weightlifter

I would do the planned confront.

"I know what happened Friday..."

The netbook NEVER happened.


----------



## happi_g_more2

weightlifter said:


> I would do the planned confront.
> 
> "I know what happened Friday..."
> 
> The netbook NEVER happened.



Yup. Im sure there are many guys that both wish and dont wish they could know what their SO's past was like. You do....and fortunately, from what it sounds like, just in time. Do you think you were headed down the marriage road or was that not even an option. 

If I havent said already, im super sorry dude. Its stinging a bit now, but 6 months is not THAT bad, and there are way better fish in the sea.


----------



## GusPolinski

> Im sure there are many guys that both wish and dont wish they could know what their SO's past was like. You do....and fortunately, from what it sounds like, just in time. Do you think you were headed down the marriage road or was that not even an option.


What he found could have been a detail of only her *RECENT* past... Sorry, that probably doesn't help.


----------



## weightlifter

Do the planned I know what you did friday confront for yourself and a sense of closure and the possibitlity of closure and erasing doubt.


----------



## Clay2013

It sounds like you are at least finding things out rather quickly. I am not sure confronting at this point would really be necessary. I am just basing that off what you read in her notebook. If you feel you need some kind of closure sure but it does not sound like she is all that decent of a person in the first place. I bet you will just find more of a headache once you talk to her than she is worth. I do agree with the other opinion on the trip. I would just schedule it for another time and go have a blast. 

I am really sorry you are going through this.

Clay


----------



## jamie323

heh.. she just texted me saying that there is a ski trip this weekend arranged by work - but there is only one spot open. Its interesting, because we had spoken about this ski trip last month, and she invited me. There was one last month, she went without me then as well.

I wonder if this is where she met that guy.


----------



## Mike11

Why are you wasting your time with her 
There are so many other good woman out there
she is not a marriage material and will always be secretive and deceptive about her "friends"

let her go you are wasting your time


----------



## lostmyreligion

jamie323 said:


> heh.. she just texted me saying that there is a ski trip this weekend arranged by work - but there is only one spot open. Its interesting, because we had spoken about this ski trip last month, and she invited me. There was one last month, she went without me then as well.
> 
> I wonder if this is where she met that guy.


Bingo. *Really* good odds on that....


----------



## lisab0105

jamie323 said:


> heh.. she just texted me saying that there is a ski trip this weekend arranged by work - but there is only one spot open. Its interesting, because we had spoken about this ski trip last month, and she invited me. There was one last month, she went without me then as well.
> 
> I wonder if this is where she met that guy.


I would keep it really simple. Tell her its okay that she goes on the ski trip alone, like she is going Paris alone. You know she is a skank and to lose your number.


----------



## happi_g_more2

she is asking you to break up with her.


----------



## GusPolinski

lisab0105 said:


> I would keep it really simple. Tell her its okay that she goes on the ski trip alone, like she is going Paris alone. You know she is a skank and to lose your number.


Even simpler...

"That's cool, have fun."

Go dark w/ 100% NC afterward, maybe even blocking her number. 

With regard to the Paris trip, cancel everything and get your money back, then mail her a check for her half minus any cancellation fees. This is assuming, of course, that you actually paid for everything (an earlier post made it seem that way).


----------



## jamie323

Yes, Im going out tonight and wont see her until tomorrow at a social event with her friends. I actually have met a LOT of her friends. She has been very welcoming of me into her friend circle. All of her friends really like me, and hated her ex because he was a jealous cheat. So I am thinking I will have to go over to her place early tomorrow and tell her whats up, then I will bid her farewell.


----------



## Affaircare

jamie323 said:


> heh.. she just texted me saying that there is a ski trip this weekend arranged by work - but there is only one spot open. Its interesting, because we had spoken about this ski trip last month, and she invited me. There was one last month, she went without me then as well.
> 
> I wonder if this is where she met that guy.


"Well you just have a great time at that ski trip where you initially invited me and now you're trying to get rid of me. Oh by the way, I know what happened Friday, and you have succeeded. I need a partner in my life who gives me 100% of her affection and loyalty and I will not tolerate being lied to about who you were with or what you did. So you're free to do as you wish on your ski trip. Goodbye!" Click...followed by dial tone...followed by turning off your phone.


----------



## adriana

GusPolinski said:


> Even simpler...
> 
> "That's cool, have fun."
> 
> Go dark w/ 100% NC afterward, maybe even blocking her number. *<= Definitively block her number and email.*
> 
> With regard to the Paris trip, cancel everything and get your money back, then mail her a check for her half minus any cancellation fees. This is assuming, of course, that you actually paid for everything (an earlier post made it seem that way).



This is exactly what I would do if I found myself in OP's situation. There is no better way to tell someone to **** off than suddenly cutting them off and going 100% dark. No explanations or anything.... just a complete NC. 

But, most posters seem to have developed taste for raw drama so they are asking for confrontation. They want blood.


----------



## Ceegee

adriana said:


> This is exactly what I would do if I found myself in OP's situation. There is no better way to tell someone to **** off than suddenly cutting them off and going 100% dark. No explanations or anything.... just a complete NC.
> 
> But, most posters seem to have developed taste for raw drama so they are asking for confrontation. They want blood.


I agree and I certainly don't think she deserves a face-to-face. 

That's why you went and got your stuff today.


----------



## Chaparral

jamie323 said:


> heh.. she just texted me saying that there is a ski trip this weekend arranged by work - but there is only one spot open. Its interesting, because we had spoken about this ski trip last month, and she invited me. There was one last month, she went without me then as well.
> 
> I wonder if this is where she met that guy.


If you know his name, text her and ask if he's going.


----------



## 3putt

adriana said:


> This is exactly what I would do if I found myself in OP's situation. There is no better way to tell someone to **** off than suddenly cutting them off and going 100% dark. No explanations or anything.... just a complete NC.
> 
> But, most posters seem to have developed taste for raw drama so they are asking for confrontation. They want blood.


We guys do tend to get like that, but I don't think it's without good reason. LOL...you just don't understand the male ego and what primal thoughts and urges betrayal unleashes in us. It can get pretty ugly. 

In this case, however, I would just do what has been suggested above, and by you as well. Let her know he knows, wish her well, then walk away and never look back.


----------



## Tobyboy

She either has lots of "friends w/benefits" or she's a Call Girl!! Either way... dump her and get tested!


----------



## jamie323

Weird.. I havent talked to her much today.. But she texted earlier that she was staying home tonight - and sent a picture of her living room with some takeout on the table a few minutes ago. It feels like she is overcompensating. I haven't responded. Im about to head out to a friend's to just talk and relax.


----------



## just got it 55

jamie323 said:


> Weird.. I havent talked to her much today.. But she texted earlier that she was staying home tonight - and sent a picture of her living room with some takeout on the table a few minutes ago. It feels like she is overcompensating. I haven't responded. Im about to head out to a friend's to just talk and relax.


Looks like she is trying to tell you

Look Jamie I am home being a good girl


Go Dark

55


----------



## jamie323

just got it 55 said:


> Looks like she is trying to tell you
> 
> Look Jamie I am home being a good girl
> 
> 
> Go Dark
> 
> 55


yeah.. I just got another pic of her with the cat at home. Jeez, she must really feel guilty..


----------



## 3putt

jamie323 said:


> yeah.. I just got another pic of her with the cat at home. *Jeez, she must really feel guilty*..


Nope...just busted. She's in damage control.


----------



## happi_g_more2

jamie323 said:


> yeah.. I just got another pic of her with the cat at home. Jeez, she must really feel guilty..


Do NOT get drunk tonight and try and have this talk with her.


----------



## jamie323

3putt said:


> Nope...just busted. She's in damage control.


I have not confronted her about knowing that she was not with her friend on Friday, so there is no reason for her to feel 'busted'. I only told her I was unhappy that she went out all night and didn't contact me. I think she knows she screwed up, especially after seeing the text to him saying that its a one time thing. 

That does not excuse her lying to me about meeting a girl, and hanging out with her friends - when she was actually with some guy all night..


----------



## 3putt

jamie323 said:


> I have not confronted her about knowing that she was not with her friend on Friday, *so there is no reason for her to feel 'busted'. I only told her I was unhappy that she went out all night and didn't contact me. * I think she knows she screwed up, especially after seeing the text to him saying that its a one time thing.
> 
> That does not excuse her lying to me about meeting a girl, and hanging out with her friends - when she was actually with some guy all night..


There's also no reason for a loyal person to text pics of their whereabouts after just being informed you didn't like what she did, yet she's done it TWICE. 

She's seasoned at this.


----------



## jamie323

3putt said:


> There's also no reason for a loyal person to text pics of their whereabouts after just being informed you didn't like what she did, yet she's done it TWICE.
> 
> She's seasoned at this.



Three pics now.. Yesterday (sunday) night she invited me out to meet one of her girlfriends. She even admitted that she invited me out so that I could see that she was really where she said she was. I found that extremely unusual. This was before I checked her phone and saw all the evidence. So you can see why I was concerned in the first place. People don't act this way if they are not guilty of something. She is wayyy overcompensating. I have experience with cheaters, she knows this. When I see her tomorrow, I will call her out on it. I have not responded to her yet, and am not sure I will tonight.


----------



## 3putt

jamie323 said:


> Three pics now.. Yesterday (sunday) night she invited me out to meet one of her girlfriends. She even admitted that she invited me out so that I could see that she was really where she said she was. I found that extremely unusual. This was before I checked her phone and saw all the evidence. So you can see why I was concerned in the first place. People don't act this way if they are not guilty of something. She is wayyy overcompensating. I have experience with cheaters, she knows this. When I see her tomorrow, I will call her out on it. I have not responded to her yet, and am not sure I will tonight.


3 now, huh? Alright, it would seem your instincts are now active. Look, you already see where this is headed, so just lower the boom tomorrow and get it over with. This woman isn't worth your time or energies.

Truly sorry you're having to deal with this though. It doth suck.


----------



## Chaparral

I am puzzled about the timeline. If she was out so late, why was the dude trying to get her to come see him at 2am? This was the same night, no?

She also said it was a one time deal, its easy to jump at the sex angle but all you know is she lied about going out with her friend. Exactly when did the friend bail? Was that just before they were to go out? My point is, was this a last minute thing or did she set up a date with a dude and then just lie about it?


----------



## Chaparral

I guess my concern is that if she is the type to cheat, I question why she would be acting so guilty. LOL, the cheaters we see around here rarely show any guilt at all. They are usually such good liars it takes Sherlock Holmes to catch them!


----------



## 3putt

Chaparral said:


> I guess my concern is that if she is the type to cheat, I question why she would be acting so guilty. LOL, the cheaters we see around here rarely show any guilt at all. They are usually such good liars it takes Sherlock Holmes to catch them!


Yep, which is why I called her 'seasoned'. This isn't her first rodeo.


----------



## Tobyboy

Chaparral said:


> I am puzzled about the timeline. If she was out so late, why was the dude trying to get her to come see him at 2am? This was the same night, no?
> 
> She also said it was a one time deal, its easy to jump at the sex angle but all you know is she lied about going out with her friend. Exactly when did the friend bail? Was that just before they were to go out? My point is, was this a last minute thing or did she set up a date with a dude and then just lie about it?


Also, "the one time deal" text was never sent. Maybe she changed her mind and she did go see him! Again!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

jamie323 said:


> Three pics now.. Yesterday (sunday) night she invited me out to meet one of her girlfriends. She even admitted that she invited me out so that I could see that she was really where she said she was. I found that extremely unusual. This was before I checked her phone and saw all the evidence. So you can see why I was concerned in the first place. People don't act this way if they are not guilty of something. She is wayyy overcompensating. I have experience with cheaters, she knows this. When I see her tomorrow, I will call her out on it. I have not responded to her yet, and am not sure I will tonight.


Here's a thought... Copy the pics from your phone to your computer and check the metadata to see if they really were taken today/tonight. Wouldn't surprise me if they were taken at an earlier date w/ plans to use them tonight...


----------



## soccermom2three

Yeah, I don't know why you have to see her again. Affaircare wrote out two perfect posts for you to use. All you have to do is cut, paste and press send.


----------



## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> We guys do tend to get like that, but I don't think it's without good reason. LOL...you just don't understand the male ego and what primal thoughts and urges betrayal unleashes in us. It can get pretty ugly.
> 
> In this case, however, I would just do what has been suggested above, and by you as well. Let her know he knows, wish her well, then walk away and never look back.


While a much more visceral reaction would be understandable, and perhaps even justified (and, to some degree, desirable), having read OP's thread detailing his ex's behavior leaves me w/ the feeling that he'd be better off just washing his hands of this one, and moving on as quickly and cleanly as possible.


----------



## bryanp

As you mentioned yourself, you better get tested for STD's. Don't beat around the bush when you see her. Tell her you know she is a liar and she cheated on you and you are done! If you don't respect yourself then who will?


----------



## GusPolinski

> Don't beat around the bush when you see her.


LOL. Nice.

Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## adriana

3putt said:


> We guys do tend to get like that, but I don't think it's without good reason. LOL...you just don't understand the male ego and what primal thoughts and urges betrayal unleashes in us. It can get pretty ugly.
> 
> In this case, however, I would just do what has been suggested above, and by you as well. Let her know he knows, wish her well, then walk away and never look back.



3putt, you may be right about the male ego but I'm a logical person and know that, regardless of how brilliant the OP will be in his confrontation, all he is going to get is a meaningless apology and a bunch of lies and excuses.

What is a point of doing it if he can dump her so beautifully?


----------



## illwill

Stop the theatrics and move on. Jeez.


----------



## GusPolinski

adriana said:


> 3putt, you may be right about the male ego but I'm a logical person and know that, regardless of how brilliant the OP will be in his confrontation, all he is going to get is a meaningless apology and a bunch of lies and excuses.
> 
> *What is a point of doing it if he can dump her so beautifully?*


Word.


----------



## DoktorFun

GusPolinski said:


> Here's a thought... Copy the pics from your phone to your computer and check the metadata to see if they really were taken today/tonight. Wouldn't surprise me if they were taken at an earlier date w/ plans to use them tonight...


This! ^


----------



## 3putt

adriana said:


> 3putt, you may be right about the male ego but I'm a logical person and know that, regardless of how brilliant the OP will be in his confrontation, all he is going to get is a meaningless apology and a bunch of lies and excuses.
> 
> What is a point of doing it if he can dump her so beautifully?


I think that's what I said (last paragraph).


----------



## Headspin

Just look at this

Here you are going through hoops, going through the mincer, just in the last couple of days.

Now clearly and concisely put your head forward a couple of years after you have let this go and understand _you will back on this forum opening up probably this thread with yet another two years of treachery deceit lying and betrayal_ 

*Yes that will be you.* It is a given

Do you understand this ? 

You have no kids and you are not in a living situation = You are LUCKY

Now you have cleared that in your head and cleared what has gone on here you need to simply undramatically remove yourself from this, to remove her from your life quickly and surgically like a cancer

No confronts no needing "closure" no demands of the truth (you already know it)

Simply, "It was kinda great while it lasted, but thanks and good luck to whoever you want to grind into the dirt next time, at least it won't be me ..byeee.... " ( It took me a minute to write that line but should only take you about 8 seconds to say it )

Door firmly shut behind you and HHUUUGGGEE sigh of relief for you that you will never have to endure another minute of her vindictive nil respect selfish cheating lying entitled ways

Simple


----------



## jamie323

Chaparral said:


> I am puzzled about the timeline. If she was out so late, why was the dude trying to get her to come see him at 2am? This was the same night, no?
> 
> She also said it was a one time deal, its easy to jump at the sex angle but all you know is she lied about going out with her friend. Exactly when did the friend bail? Was that just before they were to go out? My point is, was this a last minute thing or did she set up a date with a dude and then just lie about it?


Ugh, now I am confused about the timeline. Here is my rough timeline from what I remember.
Feb 21: These are texts I saw on her phone
6:15 Text either to or from her girlfriend (dont remember who said they couldnt make it) 'Im going to be here until 6:30 and Im not sure I can make it' then there was a response 'well lets do it next time' 
7:45 she sends a text to that guy with just the name of a bar in it. There are no prior messages at all. I did not check her phone records. I am going to guess it is a co-worker.
8:45 She texted me and tells me she is out with her girlfriend, and and may be out late
9:30 She texts and tells me that she cant get her mind off of me (sexually explicitly).

no more the rest of the night until she calls me at 11 am the next day super hungover telling me she has a coffee for me. I go to her place. There are beer cans/bottles around (several types) She tells me her friend and a couple of her girlfriends came over and partied, then crashed there.

Im not able to check her phone until monday Feb 24. This is when I see these texts. I also find the message 
Feb 23 2:45AM 'Hey, Im feeling out of it - my roommate is playing hearts, you should come over'

There is also the unsent message to him saying 'this was a one time deal' However, there were unsent messages to two other girlfriends as well, so she may have been having issues with the phone when trying to send those texts. I do not know if she sent it since.


----------



## jamie323

DoktorFun said:


> This! ^


Doesnt work that way.. multimedia messages do not save exif data.


----------



## Rugs

Ceegee said:


> I wouldn't even confront on this one.
> 
> You don't seem invested enough to put up with this crap.
> 
> Blow her off. Next time she calls or texts just say "you're not who I thought you were. Good bye."



:iagree:


----------



## Squeakr

Why worry about the little details. Move on. You have all the details and proof you need. You know the friend cancelled, and then *SHE* invited the other * GUY * friend out for a night on the town and brought him (and who knows else, might have been a group thing or her on many, just look at her journal entries) back to her apartment and partied all night. Oh and she blew off her scheduled meeting with you to be with him, and also was sexting you while with him, part of the standard cheater script (checking in with the spouse/BF while lout with the OM).

Now she is texting you with her "good" behavior, something she never did before, and she reacted when you became upset about Friday. 

Enough. Point. Set. Match. Game Over!


----------



## missthelove2013

why "confront"??
you arent married, you have seperate living space..dump her lying ass...move on...why try and even salvage this..its obvious from those texts she had a ons...


----------



## missthelove2013

warlock07 said:


> And just tell her that you know and to go dark on her. Does she have stuff at your place ? Pack them up.
> 
> All you will get will be more lies, excuses,rationalizations and tears when you meet in person.
> 
> Did you guys discuss infidelity ? Does she know of your ex ?


I like this...and I know its easier said than done, op...but I would get satisfaction out of just texting her "I KNOW"...or "I KNOW WHAT YOU DID"...and go dark, cancel your ticket to paris, or change it to vegas and go to vegas

She gave you a gift by the way...she showed you her true self BEFORE marriage when it isnt too late to run...


----------



## missthelove2013

OR just text her "I dont want to be part of superhero anymore"

I wonder how many pages we will be at before op finally dumps this cheater...my money is on...um...17 pages...including 2 confronts, lies excuses, and partial forgiveness, then a second reveal


----------



## PHTlump

I agree that you should just go dark. There are two reasons to confront her. One, you want to figure out exactly what happened. But that is the action of a man who is married with children. If you're going to blow up your family, then you need to know exactly what happened to see if you can get past it, forgive her, and maintain your family. You don't have that handicap. You can simply stop seeing her.

The second reason to confront is out of a sense of duty. You think it wouldn't be gentlemanly to just stop answering her calls. So, you want to be there for her one last time. You want to give her a shoulder to cry on. You feel like you owe her. But, you don't. You had an arrangement and she broke it. So you're done. It's simple.

You owe her nothing. If you're not mean enough to toy with her guilt, which I would be, then simply stop communicating with her. She'll get the picture. And you save yourself the turmoil of trying to dump her in exactly the right way.

Good luck.


----------



## jamie323

PHTlump said:


> I agree that you should just go dark. There are two reasons to confront her. One, you want to figure out exactly what happened. But that is the action of a man who is married with children. If you're going to blow up your family, then you need to know exactly what happened to see if you can get past it, forgive her, and maintain your family. You don't have that handicap. You can simply stop seeing her.
> 
> The second reason to confront is out of a sense of duty. You think it wouldn't be gentlemanly to just stop answering her calls. So, you want to be there for her one last time. You want to give her a shoulder to cry on. You feel like you owe her. But, you don't. You had an arrangement and she broke it. So you're done. It's simple.
> 
> You owe her nothing. If you're not mean enough to toy with her guilt, which I would be, then simply stop communicating with her. She'll get the picture. And you save yourself the turmoil of trying to dump her in exactly the right way.
> 
> Good luck.


I have to confront, and cannot just go dark. 
1. She has a key to my apt.
2. She will probably wonder what happened and come over.

Im going to talk to her tonight.


----------



## badmemory

jamie323 said:


> I have to confront, and cannot just go dark.
> 1. She has a key to my apt.
> 2. She will probably wonder what happened and come over.
> 
> Im going to talk to her tonight.


I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, although I'd want the closure of confrontation myself.

That said, the key is no excuse. That's what locksmith's are for.


----------



## SF-FAN

jamie323 said:


> Honestly, I have basically been living the dream. I have an apt. in a great city, and have met a few good people here. I really thought this woman was great, and now things are just screwy. Im not crying over this at all - which might be a sign.
> 
> I really should go to Paris.. How do I handle this? Do I confront and ask for the truth? (just saying something like 'in my gut, I feel that you are not telling the truth about Friday'. Do I just get a refund on her ticket and go myself and have fun?
> 
> I really hate this, I wish life could be more simple, and that people were more caring an honest. *Im beginning to believe that people are just generally no good.*


I tend to agree with you on this. Most of the population is likely to do something if the chance of not being caught is low. There are few that have morals nowadays. Really leaves a sh*tty outlook on the possibility of a long term relationship.


----------



## DoktorFun

badmemory said:


> I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, although *I'd want the closure of confrontation myself.*
> 
> That said, the key is no excuse. That's what locksmith's are for.


:iagree:


----------



## Tobyboy

I think she'll cave after a little denial. The question is.....how much do you want to know? Chances are high that this wasn't her first hook up since your relationship started, it's just the first you caught her in!!


----------



## jamie323

Tobyboy said:


> I think she'll cave after a little denial. The question is.....how much do you want to know? Chances are high that this wasn't her first hook up since your relationship started, it's just the first you caught her in!!



This is the first time I ever got that 'vibe'. She has been out very late before with friends or whatever, and was not very detailed about what they did. Then again, I have been out late with friends as well.. but I kept myself available.


----------



## Chaparral

People in commited go out drinking without their SO do so st their peril. Things happen to drunk people that they are horrified by when they sober up.


----------



## happi_g_more2

jamie323 said:


> This is the first time I ever got that 'vibe'. She has been out very late before with friends or whatever, and was not very detailed about what they did. Then again, I have been out late with friends as well.. but I kept myself available.


Unfortunatly, in my experience, the "vibe" never lies.


----------



## wranglerman

Can I just ask something?

How was Valentines day for you guys?

Movies? Meal? Phucked her brains out and left her asleep in a cum coma?

I have to ask as that special day has just passed and I know that possibly you know, the guy on the side might just have pizzed in your puddle more than once!


----------



## happi_g_more2

wranglerman said:


> Can I just ask something?
> 
> How was Valentines day for you guys?
> 
> Movies? Meal? Phucked her brains out and left her asleep in a cum coma?
> 
> I have to ask as that special day has just passed and I know that possibly you know, the guy on the side might just have pizzed in your puddle more than once!


Could be a good barometer. Although, how many cheats on here have been great at home only to be living double lives


----------



## wranglerman

happi_g_more2 said:


> Could be a good barometer. Although, how many cheats on here have been great at home only to be living double lives


True!

But for me the sudden change of temperament, the proof pictures, the new found need to make her whereabouts known, the fact that the browser history was clean on the notebook says something more, I never touch mine, my W has to tell me to run a cleaner or a scan or something when I complain it is running slow, she doesn't clear hers either, I have to, it is part of the terms and conditions of R, although it may be a red herring as he does not know the frequency of use and the previous history deletes, she may do it istinctively after every session to hide what she does, she may just do it on a given day, could be a something and nothing.

The "superhero" file is intriguing!!!

She is a player for sure, she likes to keep orbiters to keep her options open, she has already blown him out on the ski trip, and another about to happen.

Options, options, but does the OP want truth or just for us to help him pluck up the courage to blow her away like fairy dust?


----------



## happi_g_more2

wranglerman said:


> True!
> 
> But for me the sudden change of temperament, the proof pictures, the new found need to make her whereabouts known, the fact that the browser history was clean on the notebook says something more, I never touch mine, my W has to tell me to run a cleaner or a scan or something when I complain it is running slow, she doesn't clear hers either, I have to, it is part of the terms and conditions of R, although it may be a red herring as he does not know the frequency of use and the previous history deletes, she may do it istinctively after every session to hide what she does, she may just do it on a given day, could be a something and nothing.
> 
> The "superhero" file is intriguing!!!
> 
> She is a player for sure, she likes to keep orbiters to keep her options open, she has already blown him out on the ski trip, and another about to happen.
> 
> Options, options, but does the *OP want* truth or just for *us to help him pluck up the courage to blow her away like fairy dust?*


This. I think he knows, he just wants to confront and dump


----------



## thummper

wranglerman said:


> Can I just ask something?
> 
> How was Valentines day for you guys?
> 
> Movies? Meal? Phucked her brains out and left her asleep in a cum coma?
> 
> I have to ask as that special day has just passed and I know that possibly you know, *the guy on the side might just have pizzed in your puddle more than once!*




Ooooooo, good one! :rofl: Just wondering if there's a chance you got, uh, something a little extra when you and your SO had sex. Sure hope not!


----------



## happi_g_more2

So, how'd the talk go?


----------



## jamie323

thummper said:


> [/B]
> 
> Ooooooo, good one! :rofl: Just wondering if there's a chance you got, uh, something a little extra when you and your SO had sex. Sure hope not!


This is an extremely disgusting thing to say. 'pizzed in my puddle'? I actually did love this woman, and of course thought things would be 'different' since we both had such negative experiences with cheating. Her bf of 10 years cheated on her, then the next guy she had a serious relationship with cheated on her.

From the phone records they only got together the one time.. Valentine's day was great, everything was great up until this last friday, when obviously she went out with this guy, and obviously slept with him. 

Yes I confronted her yesterday, and no I don't feel like talking about it right now. I will post about it later when I can get my mind right.


----------



## happi_g_more2

jamie323 said:


> This is an extremely disgusting thing to say. 'pizzed in my puddle'? I actually did love this woman, and of course thought things would be 'different' since we both had such negative experiences with cheating. Her bf of 10 years cheated on her, then the next guy she had a serious relationship with cheated on her.
> 
> From the phone records they only got together the one time.. Valentine's day was great, everything was great up until this last friday, when obviously she went out with this guy, and obviously slept with him.
> 
> Yes I confronted her yesterday, and no I don't feel like talking about it right now. I will post about it later when I can get my mind right.


Sorry bro. If you need help hammering out your thoughts, we're here for ya.


----------



## Ceegee

I apologize if we/I came across as crass or insensitive.

In the beginning, your relationship seemed less serious.



jamie323 said:


> Honestly, I have basically been living the dream. I have an apt. in a great city, and have met a few good people here. I really thought this woman was great, and now things are just screwy. *Im not crying over this at all* - which might be a sign.


Now you're talking about loving her.

I'm sorry for the pain you are going through but the net result is the same. 

She wasn't who you thought she was. That's on her not you.

Maybe hearing that you're better off that this happened earlier than later isn't of much comfort right now, but it's true.


----------



## tulsy

jamie323 said:


> ..
> From the phone records they only got together the one time.. *Valentine's day was great, everything was great up until this last friday,* when obviously she went out with this guy, and obviously slept with him.
> 
> Yes I confronted her yesterday, and no I don't feel like talking about it right now. I will post about it later when I can get my mind right.


Ya, everything SEEMED great when you thought she was someone you could trust.

BTW, how do you know she was cheated on? She could have been the cheater in her past relationships, and just painted a different picture for you, her latest suitor.

After your breakup, she could paint YOU as the one who cheated. That's what a couple of my cheating ex's did....told all their/our friends and family that *I* was the one who cheated. The first time a woman did that to me I was furious and called her out on it publicly, exposed her, etc...the revenge didn't help my situation much at all. The second time it happened to me I barely gave a chit...I just cut off contact with anyone in that world she lives in, including some family members. When those people eventually reached out and asked, I calmly told them _"It's a shame you actually believed those lies about me, especially coming from that person. You weren't there for me when I needed support, so you're dead to me now"._

I'm just saying, don't be too surprised if she's lied about her past, and if she lies about the breakdown of your relationship. It's pretty common among cheaters...lots of my friends have had this happen to them.


----------



## weightlifter

jamie323 said:


> Yes I confronted her yesterday, and no I don't feel like talking about it right now. I will post about it later when I can get my mind right.


sigh. Some people need closure. Some dont. Pushing him one way or another...

Fortunately he got this before the ring giving stage.


----------



## Jasel

tulsy said:


> BTW, how do you know she was cheated on? She could have been the cheater in her past relationships, and just painted a different picture for you, her latest suitor.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just saying, don't be too surprised if she's lied about her past, and if she lies about the breakdown of your relationship. It's pretty common among cheaters...lots of my friends have had this happen to them.


:iagree:


----------



## Squeakr

weightlifter said:


> sigh. Some people need closure. Some dont. Pushing him one way or another...
> 
> Fortunately he got this before the ring giving stage.


I would bet that she tried to bring some crap into it about her sister's wedding and the realization that she needs to be settling down and making sure she is with the man she really loves and needs to be with, so she was just testing the waters, or it will go the other way and she will lay it on him that he was smothering her and she wasn't ready to be tied down like her sister is going to be shortly so she needed to live a little!


----------



## weightlifter

I think he will know blameshifting. We shall see.

Give him time to organize his mind. Even if it was not long love. It still hurts like a female dog. Add in the ego shattering effect.


----------



## Squeakr

weightlifter said:


> I think he will know blameshifting. We shall see.
> 
> Give him time to organize his mind. Even if it was not long love. It still hurts like a female dog. Add in the ego shattering effect.


:iagree: Wasn't suggesting that he would let her off or accept those excuses, just pointing out that those more than likely were the type of responses he would have gotten to his confrontation. The same "justifications" that all BS get during confrontation, and none of us buy that line of B.S. either. SO in the end, he knew for sure, but never really got an answer or closure, just a bunch of attempted rugsweeping on her part. (Or maybe a tearful breakdown about how it will never happen again and they will have the greatest time in Paris, so he should go so she can prove to him her love. Almost gagged just writing that.)


----------



## manfromlamancha

Jamie, really sorry that you are in this situation. I don't really understand the impact of what you found out (or even what you really found out) but you seemed to imply that she was with many boyfriends at the same time - on the face of it, if this was before you that would not necessarily be strange. But you also implied that one of them was meant to be her exclusive ex-bf and that she may have been cheating on him (again not sure if that was after she found out that he had been cheating on her).

In any case, it sounds like the two of you really fell in love and then she goes and does this and I guess the only real thing that I am struggling with, is WHY?

Did you manage to get this question answered ?

Or did you find that there was more to it than what you found ? e.g. had this been going on longer than you thought and/or was this someone she met before you ?

These answers will help you decide what to do next, but on the face of it and from what you have said so far, this would normally be over and you would have luckily had a near miss here.

I hope you can come back and elaborate and maybe we can help.


----------



## SF-FAN

wranglerman said:


> True!
> 
> But for me the sudden change of temperament, the proof pictures, the new found need to make her whereabouts known, *the fact that the browser history was clean on the notebook says something more*, I never touch mine, my W has to tell me to run a cleaner or a scan or something when I complain it is running slow, she doesn't clear hers either, I have to, it is part of the terms and conditions of R, although it may be a red herring as he does not know the frequency of use and the previous history deletes, she may do it istinctively after every session to hide what she does, she may just do it on a given day, could be a something and nothing.
> 
> The "superhero" file is intriguing!!!
> 
> She is a player for sure, she likes to keep orbiters to keep her options open, she has already blown him out on the ski trip, and another about to happen.
> 
> Options, options, but does the OP want truth or just for us to help him pluck up the courage to blow her away like fairy dust?


Cleaning your browser history is not something concrete for signs of cheating though. I clean mine all the time at home and at work, but have NEVER cheated. It's just a force of habit. I think cheaters have evolved and use phone apps, texts, and other means to cheat. Things that are harder to trace.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Cleaning your browser history is not something concrete for signs of cheating though. I clean mine all the time at home and at work, but have NEVER cheated. It's just a force of habit. I think cheaters have evolved and use phone apps, texts, and other means to cheat. Things that are harder to trace.


I do have to say that I laugh everytime I hear someone say "clear browser history". What is this, 2005??? My browers auto clear evertime I close out.


----------



## Squeakr

happi_g_more2 said:


> I do have to say that I laugh everytime I hear someone say "clear browser history". What is this, 2005??? My browers auto clear evertime I close out.


I never close mine out and have that option turned off, as do about 90% of the people I know (and I am in the IT industry, so no this is really still a current thing and way of thinking).


----------



## wranglerman

happi_g_more2 said:


> I do have to say that I laugh everytime I hear someone say "clear browser history". What is this, 2005??? My browers auto clear evertime I close out.


Some people actually use the browser history to get back to sites that they don't want to have the hassle of google search for.

A lot of machines are not programmed to run auto clear on shut down and a lot of machines are only put to sleep mode which will not clear history either.

You will be amazed at some of the routine habbits that serial cheaters pick up, my buddies EXGF was/is a serial cheater, she has some really interesting habbits!


----------



## happi_g_more2

wranglerman said:


> Some people actually use the browser history to get back to sites that they don't want to have the hassle of google search for.
> 
> A lot of machines are not programmed to run auto clear on shut down and a lot of machines are only put to sleep mode which will not clear history either.
> 
> You will be amazed at some of the routine habbits that serial cheaters pick up, my buddies EXGF was/is a serial cheater, she has some really interesting habbits!


Its just a browser setting. It doesnt have to be "programmed" on the machine. Most mainstream browsers have it as well as privacy browsing which simply dosent track.


----------



## Squeakr

happi_g_more2 said:


> Its just a browser setting. It doesnt have to be "programmed" on the machine. Most mainstream browsers have it as well as privacy browsing which simply dosent track.


Yes but it can be controlled by privacy and group policies instituted by IT so in essence it can be programmed. I deal with lots of clients that don't have the capabilities lots of times to change these simple browser settings. Most people don't realize the power that network admins can have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happi_g_more2

Squeakr said:


> Yes but it can be controlled by privacy and group policies instituted by IT so in essence it can be programmed. I deal with lots of clients that don't have the capabilities lots of times to change these simple browser settings. Most people don't realize the power that network admins can have.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ive been a software engineer for 15 years, so i know just how powerful you f*#*s are :rofl: All jokes aside, the point I was making is that most people do this **** on their home computers (i guess anyway) and personal cell phones. firefox, ie, safari, chrome all have privacy modes. Unless you are a complete tech noob, if you are doing something sneaky, I would think you would have this turned on. I think i was really just talking out loud and trying to make a funny then trying to make any real empirical argument about peoples browsing habits


----------



## Squeakr

happi_g_more2 said:


> Ive been a software engineer for 15 years, so i know just how powerful you f*#*s are :rofl: All jokes aside, the point I was making is that most people do this **** on their home computers (i guess anyway) and personal cell phones. firefox, ie, safari, chrome all have privacy modes. Unless you are a complete tech noob, if you are doing something sneaky, I would think you would have this turned on. I think i was really just talking out loud and trying to make a funny then trying to make any real empirical argument about peoples browsing habits


I am also a software engineer for about the same time frame as you, mainly doing consulting and support now, so I am not one of those f$&@s. I just get to deal with their policies when I need to assist a client.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

Perhaps we could focus on the OP's issues, and the debate of best browser settings could be started in another thread?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Clay2013

umm cough.... cough... Do you really have to talk about us like that. We have feelings too.. Now where is that gpedit.msc on your computer. Its time to lock you out of a few more things... 

Just kidding.

Clay


----------



## Squeakr

Clay2013 said:


> umm cough.... cough... Do you really have to talk about us like that. We have feelings too.. Now where is that gpedit.msc on your computer. Its time to lock you out of a few more things...
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> Clay


Nowhere on mine. I run Mac. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wranglerman

Squeakr said:


> I like to run naked only wearing a Mac.


Corrected for accuracy 

Back on topic, what has happened whilst we searched the topic of browser setting s amongst ourselves?

I would also like to apologize for my earlier comment that seemed to offend the OP 

Tough love, wranglerman style :smcowboy:


----------



## Clay2013

Well then Work Group Manager for you. 

Hope the OP comes back so we can get an update. 

Clay


----------



## SF-FAN

Yeah, wonder how the talk went for the OP and his GF. I just can't wrap my mind around it. No matter how many topics I read, how can someone go touch another man/woman when they are in a commited relationship? How can they even enjoy it knowing they are hurting someone else. Just something I will never EVER understand.


----------



## GusPolinski

SF-FAN said:


> Yeah, wonder how the talk went for the OP and his GF. I just can't wrap my mind around it. No matter how many topics I read, how can someone go touch another man/woman when they are in a commited relationship? How can they even enjoy it knowing they are hurting someone else. Just something I will never EVER understand.


It's all id, ego, and super-ego. Sometimes the trog wins.


----------



## clipclop2

She sounds like she will end up revealing a background of emotional issues. I hope she doesn't get all emo on him and sucker him into staying in the relationship.


----------



## GusPolinski

clipclop2 said:


> She sounds like she will end up revealing a background of emotional issues. *I hope she doesn't get all emo on him and sucker him into staying in the relationship.*





jamie323 said:


> This is an extremely disgusting thing to say. 'pizzed in my puddle'? *I actually did love this woman*, and of course thought things would be 'different' since we both had such negative experiences with cheating. Her bf of 10 years cheated on her, then the next guy she had a serious relationship with cheated on her.
> 
> From the phone records they only got together the one time.. Valentine's day was great, everything was great up until this last friday, when obviously she went out with this guy, and obviously slept with him.
> 
> Yes I confronted her yesterday, and no I don't feel like talking about it right now. I will post about it later when I can get my mind right.


Doesn't sound like that happened/will happen...


----------



## Chaparral

It doesn't sound like she admitted anything either.


----------



## wranglerman

Chaparral said:


> It doesn't sound like she admitted anything either.


Actions speak louder than words!!!


----------



## jamie323

Hi guys, sorry for not responding quicker.. This is just something I would rather just get past instead of talking about it, and reopening the wounds each time I post about it. 

I confronted her and said I knew something happened friday, just based on her reactions and actions. I said I just have a feeling that she was not being completely honest with me. I did not tell her that I looked at her phone. She denied it at first, and then she burst out crying, and told me that she was so sorry. She said that she was at the bar she was supposed to meet her girlfriend at, when she cancelled because she was going to be at work late. She sat and had a couple of glasses of wine, and was going to leave when a guy friend of hers called. This was a guy she had known from her previous job, and had kept in casual contact with over the years. She didnt take the call, but he left a message asking if she wanted to get together because he was in town and going to be on the east side.

Needless to say, they met up, had a whole bunch of drinks, she got very drunk - which she admitted was no excuse - and then went back to her place. I basically just stopped her there. I told her that it didnt matter what happened after she met the guy, its the fact that she lied to me about who she was with. I told her that it was despicable that she told me she was with her friend previously, and made it sound like I was kind of a jerk for questioning her in the first place.

She of course said nothing really happened because they were both so drunk by the time they got back to her place. I told her I really didnt care what happened. As I said: it doesnt matter, its the fact that she broke her plans with me to go be with another man, then ignored me the entire night and made me feel miserable for several days.

She showed me her phone, where the guy texted her wanting to get together again the next night. She sent a response that she couldnt see him again, and that it could only be a one time thing.

I told her that I had to go, I left her apartment keys on her table and left her sitting on the couch crying. 

Thats the last I talked to her. She called three times, and sent several texts saying she was so sorry, and if I could forgiver her. I have not yet responded.


----------



## syhoybenden

And that's the way it should stay.
Do not respond.
She is now and should remain in the past.
Unless of course you want to be treated like this again in the future when she thinks she can get away with this behaviour and gives it another go.


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## Squeakr

Did you at least get your key back, as stated earlier that was one of the reasons for confronting was she had a key to your place and you needed to get it back?


----------



## badmemory

jamie,

I'll say it again. If you had been married for years or had children with her, "maybe" R could be an option. But that's not the case.

You did the right thing. Stay strong and find someone that will be faithful to you. Be thankful that you found this out before you might have married her. In that sense, she did you a favor.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Clay2013

I would just keep one thing in mind. She had no problem taking him back to her house. She knew when you talked to her something was up. She did not tell you then so that shows she really did not feel remorse. This in itself shows you just how much you really meant to her. Shes probably only sorry she got caught and can't no longer keep you on the leash with the many other men. 

I would be proud of the way you handled it and walked away. Your a better person for it. First rule in any relationship is you have to respect yourself first. You showed her that. She clearly has no respect for herself. There are far better women out there. 


Clay


----------



## weightlifter

Nothing really happened = some kind of sex or an attempt at it. Never mind the lies. Also alone and drunk with another male...

Sad. I guess this one had promise. The "Bright side" is no alimony or child support. There are men who would KILL to be you. Good job. You have closure.

AND CLASS!

I hope it was a one time thing for her and she learned a lesson. 

OSF in exclusive relationship = bad juju


----------



## convert

she said nothing happened.
I don't think i could believe that
if so she would feel less guilty in my opinion.


----------



## 3putt

You did well, Jamie.

It's been said that dating is a lot like a job interview, the job being wife. When she lied to you to spend time with another man, it's not unlike an interviewee pulling down his pants and taking a massive dump on the interviewer's desk. How many would still be under consideration for the job after that? 

Not sure if that analogy is flawed or not, but I've always liked it.


----------



## jamie323

convert said:


> she said nothing happened.
> I don't think i could believe that
> if so she would feel less guilty in my opinion.


I don't believe her. I have no reason to. I mean, she showed me her phone voluntarily, and basically told me all of this voluntarily. Sure her phone showed that he called, and she didnt answer. It showed only those couple of texts. It showed that she told him that she did not want to see him again, and that it was a mistake. Does that mean she expected me to just say 'Oh its okay, we all make mistakes' . No. I just told her that I could not believe she would do something like this to me, especially knowing my past. After my last relationship I am basically in a 'one strike, you are out' kind of mood. Its sad as hell, because I thought she was awesome. We clicked, had great, passionate sex, and were on the same wavelength in so much. Its true, people make mistakes. A lie is not a mistake - a lie is deceit. 

-


----------



## Squeakr

I would get yourself a STD test soon, as with the lies, cover ups and the netbook findings I would't be wanting to take chances with that sort of thing.

Keep on and you will be fine.


----------



## SF-FAN

jamie323 said:


> I don't believe her. I have no reason to. I mean, she showed me her phone voluntarily, and basically told me all of this voluntarily. Sure her phone showed that he called, and she didnt answer. It showed only those couple of texts. It showed that she told him that she did not want to see him again, and that it was a mistake. Does that mean she expected me to just say 'Oh its okay, we all make mistakes' . No. I just told her that I could not believe she would do something like this to me, especially knowing my past. After my last relationship I am basically in a 'one strike, you are out' kind of mood. Its sad as hell, because I thought she was awesome. We clicked, had great, passionate sex, and were on the same wavelength in so much. Its true, people make mistakes. A lie is not a mistake - a lie is deceit.
> 
> -


That sucks, sorry to hear that. Especially after you tell someone about a past cheater and that you're trying to avoid that. I'm telling you, my faith in humanity is at an all time low. I think marriage and commitment is going to be done away with at some point in the future...it just seems like it's something NO ONE wants to live by.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

jamie323 said:


> I don't believe her. I have no reason to. I mean, she showed me her phone voluntarily, and basically told me all of this voluntarily. Sure her phone showed that he called, and she didnt answer. It showed only those couple of texts. It showed that she told him that she did not want to see him again, and that it was a mistake. Does that mean she expected me to just say 'Oh its okay, we all make mistakes' . No. I just told her that I could not believe she would do something like this to me, especially knowing my past. After my last relationship I am basically in a 'one strike, you are out' kind of mood. Its sad as hell, because I thought she was awesome. We clicked, *had great, passionate sex*, and were on the same wavelength in so much. Its true, people make mistakes. A lie is not a mistake - a lie is deceit.
> -


Yes, but she was having it more often than you.

If you stayed, you may have ended up one of those sorry saps that ends up raising some OMs child without even knowing it. Or worse...


----------



## happi_g_more2

jamie323 said:


> I don't believe her. I have no reason to. I mean, she showed me her phone voluntarily, and basically told me all of this voluntarily. Sure her phone showed that he called, and she didnt answer. It showed only those couple of texts. It showed that she told him that she did not want to see him again, and that it was a mistake. Does that mean she expected me to just say 'Oh its okay, we all make mistakes' . No. I just told her that I could not believe she would do something like this to me, especially knowing my past. After my last relationship I am basically in a 'one strike, you are out' kind of mood. Its sad as hell, because I thought she was awesome. We clicked, had great, passionate sex, and were on the same wavelength in so much. Its true, people make mistakes. A lie is not a mistake - a lie is deceit.
> 
> -


Im super sorry bro. Its aweful. When you put it all together...this guy, the whole weird netbook thing, the fact that she seems to have a propensity to leave you out of trips (ski trip). You just have to keep reminding yourself that no matter how well you clicked, she was broken and not for you. You will find someone that will stick with ya!!! 

I dont think anyone has brought this up, and it sounds like you are not in a place to do this, but if you know who the OM is and he has a gf or, god forbid, a wife, i think a nice little exposure is in order. Just an email or facebook post. DOnt kill yourself stalking or keeping the wound open, but you if you have access to the info, I would.


----------



## jamie323

happi_g_more2 said:


> Im super sorry bro. Its aweful. When you put it all together...this guy, the whole weird netbook thing, the fact that she seems to have a propensity to leave you out of trips (ski trip). You just have to keep reminding yourself that no matter how well you clicked, she was broken and not for you. You will find someone that will stick with ya!!!
> 
> I dont think anyone has brought this up, and it sounds like you are not in a place to do this, but if you know who the OM is and he has a gf or, god forbid, a wife, i think a nice little exposure is in order. Just an email or facebook post. DOnt kill yourself stalking or keeping the wound open, but you if you have access to the info, I would.


I know who he is and where he works. I dont think he has a wife. No idea about girlfriend, though.

Im not sure what the point will be, of digging depper..


----------



## Squeakr

jamie323 said:


> I know who he is and where he works. I dont think he has a wife. No idea about girlfriend, though.
> 
> Im not sure what the point will be, of digging depper..


There really isn't for you unless you wanted to out a cheater! Lots on this site would have loved to have someone give them a heads up like you can do for another about the nefarious ways of their other half.


----------



## wranglerman

jamie323 said:


> I know who he is and where he works. I dont think he has a wife. No idea about girlfriend, though.
> 
> *Im not sure what the point will be, of digging depper*..


None, what would be achieved? You might be able to create a few problems and make some waves thats all.

Thing is that you seem to be happy to wash your hands of the whole incident and rightly so, you had not healed enough to allow a deep love to form which bearing in mind her behaviour is only a good thing.

My advice would be to let it be and leave them alone to live their lives, you do not seem to be overly bitter and looking for revenge so why bother?

Have a bit more time to find a better spouse, be sure to discuss boundaries and terms of acceptable behavior in future relationships.


----------



## GusPolinski

jamie323 said:


> I know who he is and where he works. I dont think he has a wife. No idea about girlfriend, though.
> 
> Im not sure what the point will be, of digging depper..


Yeah man, just move on. Sounds like he might be married though... "Hey, I'm in town, wanna bang?"

Just wondering, did you bring up the ski trip at all?


----------



## GusPolinski

Squeakr said:


> There really isn't for you unless you wanted to out a cheater! Lots on this site would have loved to have someone give them a heads up like you can do for another about the nefarious ways of their other half.


This is a valid point as well.


----------



## wranglerman

GusPolinski said:


> This is a valid point as well.


Valid it might be, but why bother? there is no concrete proof of sexual activity, by company peers it might just be seen as a bitter BF that his GF has an OSF as it was simply an out of towner and they had a prior friendship.

Sorry, not a good idea from my side and as far as warning others, her, for sure, him is a ? due to the fact that she might have actually ommitted the OPs existence, it's not like they went back to the marital home to knock boots?


----------



## Squeakr

wranglerman said:


> None, what would be achieved? You might be able to create a few problems and make some waves thats all.
> 
> Thing is that you seem to be happy to wash your hands of the whole incident and rightly so, you had not healed enough to allow a deep love to form which bearing in mind her behaviour is only a good thing.
> 
> My advice would be to let it be and leave them alone to live their lives, you do not seem to be overly bitter and looking for revenge so why bother?
> 
> Have a bit more time to find a better spouse, be sure to discuss boundaries and terms of acceptable behavior in future relationships.


I was just throwing out why he might is all. They did more and I am sorry but if I was that man's girl (wife or GF) I would want to know that when he went out of town he did inappropriate things. Why would she be telling the guy in text that it was a on night thing and a mistake if all they did was went to a few bars and got drunk? We all know that she is TT the true story, and that is why he might want to tell (to help someone else that is experiencing the same thing he just did and open their eyes). Also they were former co-workers and not working together now. I agree he needs to decide as there really is nothing left here for him other than that.


----------



## happi_g_more2

Squeakr said:


> I was just throwing out why he might is all. They did more and I am sorry but if I was that man's girl (wife or GF) I would want to know that when he went out of town he did inappropriate things. Why would she be telling the guy in text that it was a on night thing and a mistake if all they did was went to a few bars and got drunk? We all know that she is TT the true story, and that is why he might want to tell (to help someone else that is experiencing the same thing he just did and open their eyes). Also they were former co-workers and not working together now. I agree he needs to decide as there really is nothing left here for him other than that.


Right. Without knowing anything about OM, i was merely putting the bug in his ear to expose if it was a feasible option. As for trickle truth, from OPs perspective, it doesnt matter. They came back from the bar and he f*$#ed her like peter north, or if he stuck a half limp worm in her and then passed out. She F'ed another dude and lied about being with her friends....


----------



## Nucking Futs

I'm with wranglerman. Drop her and everything to do with her like a hot rock. There's no point in wasting any more time or thought on her or what she did with anyone else.


----------



## jamie323

happi_g_more2 said:


> Right. Without knowing anything about OM, i was merely putting the bug in his ear to expose if it was a feasible option. As for trickle truth, from OPs perspective, it doesnt matter. They came back from the bar and he f*$#ed her like peter north, or if he stuck a half limp worm in her and then passed out. She F'ed another dude and lied about being with her friends....


What is OSF?

My problem is not 'if they had sex' particularly. That part I don't really want to know about. However, the fact that she lied about who she was with, then ignored me the entire night, then lied to me again the next day, AND lied to her friends, tells the whole story. 

Sure. maybe at first she lied to me because she was afraid I would be jealous if she was hanging out with a guy friend rather than her female friends. Problem being: She has met up with guy friends before and told me about it. Why was this different? obvious. That Friday she was going to meet her girlfriend, then afterwords we were going to meet another friend of hers around 9. She may have been the one who cancelled on her girlfriend as well as me AND her other friend - just so she could meet this guy later. But where were all the texts to him??

She got tipsy and was more interested in another man than me. She invited that man to dinner/drinks.. They got drunk, then did something she regretted. I have no idea what 'they did' - but it was enough for him to ask for her to come to his house the next night. He is not an out of towner, as the message he sent was "Im busted up, my roommate is playing heart, you should come over' I barely know what that means, so the guy was probably wasted again. She responded with "It was a mistake, I dont want this to ruin our friendship, it has to be a one time thing" (paraphrased). So, Im thinking she didn't tell the guy that she was seeing me.


----------



## karole

Jamie: You sound like a great guy. You can find someone better than her - you deserve so much better!! Hang in there!


----------



## SF-FAN

karole said:


> Jamie: You sound like a great guy. You can find someone better than her - you deserve so much better!! Hang in there!


He does sound like a great guy, I've been told I'm a great guy, etc. So why do the "great guys" get all the BS while all the a**holes get the girls? Marriage is a farce so why not turn into an a**hole and have sex without restrictions...


----------



## GusPolinski

SF-FAN said:


> He does sound like a great guy, I've been told I'm a great guy, etc. So why do the "great guys" get all the BS while all the a**holes get the girls? Marriage is a farce so why not turn into an a**hole and have sex without restrictions...


Someone page Mach.


----------



## weightlifter

SF IF you read MMSG you would know its just alpha stuff. Its genetic. Cupid dot com found women only thought 20% of men were attractive. That is who is chased hardest. It just is. I know a guy who is a MAJOR looks player... bedded ~1000 women. Has had exactly 1 relationship and he is pushing 30. We joke he will be the next actor for the worlds most interesting man. 

The second part is VERY few men can fake the alpha part worth a darn. IE you can move the ball down the field 20 yards toward alpha a bit but if you are at the far side 10 yard line, the odds of a touchdown are remote.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> SF IF you read MMSG you would know its just alpha stuff. Its genetic. Cupid dot com found women only thought 20% of men were attractive. That is who is chased hardest. It just is. I know a guy who is a MAJOR looks player... bedded ~1000 women. Has had exactly 1 relationship and he is pushing 30. We joke he will be the next actor for the worlds most interesting man.
> 
> The second part is VERY few men can fake the alpha part worth a darn. IE you can move the ball down the field 20 yards toward alpha a bit but if you are at the far side 10 yard line, the odds of a touchdown are remote.


Just very bitter right now. Seems like cheating is just easier than commitment. Seems like if a person in a relationship has a chance of doing something with another partner and not getting caught, they take it. Sometimes I wish I was the cheater and not the person cheated on. Seems like they move one easier.


----------



## Chaparral

Osf. See urban dictionary


----------



## karole

I'm sorry for your situation SF. There are women out there that don't cheat and you can find one. I have been married to my husband for 27 years and I have never cheated nor has he. Never wanted to. So, don't give up hope!


----------



## sandc

jamie323 said:


> Needless to say, they met up, had a whole bunch of drinks, she got very drunk - which she admitted was no excuse - and then went back to her place.
> 
> She of course said *nothing really happened because they were both so drunk* by the time they got back to her place.
> 
> She showed me her phone, where the guy texted her wanting to get together again the next night. She sent a response that she couldnt see him again, and *that it could only be a one time thing*.
> 
> I told her that I had to go, I left her apartment keys on her table and left her sitting on the couch crying.
> 
> Thats the last I talked to her. She called three times, and sent several texts saying she was so sorry, and if I could forgiver her. I have not yet responded.


Don't bother responding. She's still lying to you. She says nothing happened because they were too drunk. Then she tells him it can only be a one time thing.  What thing? How can it be a one time thing if no thing happened?

In fact she did have sex with him and probably does genuinely feel terrible. Especially since you both were cheated on. Now she's become the cheater. THAT is what she feels bad about.

At the very least she has bad boundaries and at worst she's a lying cheater so cut your losses and just put her out of your mind and move on. You found her, you'll find someone else.

And I'm so sorry this happened to you.


----------



## wranglerman

OSF = Opposite Sex Friend.

SF, dude, you are so far out there with thinking like that!!!

I can say one thing, if she loves and respects you then she won't cheat, if she looses respect for you and "friend zones" you then it's a given that any Alpha type player will walk in and steal her snatch.

I fouund that it was the case with my W where she had unintentionally "friend zoned" me and had detatched from our marriage that allowed her to form her EA with POSOM, she just didn't realize how or why it had happened. There was a point in our marriage where I had a very close relationship with our employer, we both worked for the same woman, the trouble was that our employer was amidst a bitter separation from her partner in life and the business and I was the rather dashing yard man come builder who was single handedly refurbishing her house, the reason I had a close relationship with her was because you cannot refurbish a house without having meetings and discussions about what the heck is going on with this bathroom, that wall paper, the marble floor I was laying, the lighting and electricity sockets etc, etc,. The bitter separation and my close relationship caused him to spread numerous lies and rumors that I was banging her  God help me NO!!! I was afair proof! But my poor W had to work the horses with ths crap in her ear and one day it got too much and we had a discussion about it and I explained everything to her, she believed me because was telling the truth and she knew it, but it didn't stop her subconsciously detatching from me emotionally as a means of self protection and stpping herself getting hurt by me if it turned out that there was something going on. She didn't want to risk losing me but didnt want me to be in a position where I could hurt her, that I understood, took a long time to find out wheres whys and such but we pieced the puzzle together slowly.

You have no idea how crappy a life it is to be a player, I know a few from periods of my life, they end up miserable and often alone, never allowing atachments of women who might cramp the next tight puzzy.

Hang in there, it really is not such a bad world, just seems like it sometimes.


----------



## Aspydad

Six months is long enough to fall in love with someone. Sounds like you did fall for her and I do feel for you!! If I was in your shoes, I know exactly what I would do - RUN!! Turn around 180 degrees and don't turn back. A woman doesn't have sex with someone unless she has strong feelings for them - obviously she is into this guy! which means, sorry to say, she is may not be into you as deep as you are into her. 

If your into one on one relationships where you don't have to worry about your girl sleeping around and maybe giving you some type of disease - this is definitely not the girl for you and this is a no brainer.

Run away is my vote here. If she really does have strong feelings for you and this really was just a huge mistake on her part - she will not give up on you and will pursue you even once you have turned - and if she gives up quick, this will be the validation of what you suspect.

There is always another scenario here – she may be very insecure and damaged from past relationships and actually self-destructed her relationship with you before you could drop her. I mean she may be just so hurt from past relationships that she has a wall up and will not let herself fall for anyone. But, even if this is the case, I would still stick with what I said before and if she is really into you (walls that one puts up are not real in my opinion), she will not just let you turn from her without a fight.

I will tell you that this did happen to me when was first dating my wife to be some 30 years ago - I came by to see her at her dorm - unannounced, and I drive up to see her getting out of the car of her old boy freind - I confronted her and told her I was done with her and drove off mad - and I really was not going to ever call her again - but, her roommate called me the next day and begged me to call my wife to be as she was crying uncontrollably - I did and found out that the old boyfriend picked her up from the library and just wanted to show her his new car - she did not want to walk home and thought it would not hurt to take a ride with him - never expecting the bad luck of me showing up at the exact time he dropped her off. We have been together now for 30 years now.


----------



## happi_g_more2

jamie323 said:


> What is OSF?
> 
> My problem is not 'if they had sex' particularly. That part I don't really want to know about. However, the fact that she lied about who she was with, then ignored me the entire night, then lied to me again the next day, AND lied to her friends, tells the whole story.
> 
> Sure. maybe at first she lied to me because she was afraid I would be jealous if she was hanging out with a guy friend rather than her female friends. Problem being: She has met up with guy friends before and told me about it. Why was this different? obvious. That Friday she was going to meet her girlfriend, then afterwords we were going to meet another friend of hers around 9. She may have been the one who cancelled on her girlfriend as well as me AND her other friend - just so she could meet this guy later. But where were all the texts to him??
> 
> She got tipsy and was more interested in another man than me. She invited that man to dinner/drinks.. They got drunk, then did something she regretted. I have no idea what 'they did' - but it was enough for him to ask for her to come to his house the next night. He is not an out of towner, as the message he sent was "Im busted up, my roommate is playing heart, you should come over' I barely know what that means, so the guy was probably wasted again. She responded with "It was a mistake, I dont want this to ruin our friendship, it has to be a one time thing" (paraphrased). So, Im thinking she didn't tell the guy that she was seeing me.


You do what you have to do bro. Most of us have been through this type of situation. Varying degrees, albeit, but we have all been through it. I know from personal experience, you are trickle truthing yourself. They had sex, period. If they didn't, she would have told you EVERYTHING right away. Honey, im so sorry...my fiends ditched, i ended up with this guy, I couldn't really get out of the evening, I know its out of bounds, but please forgive me. That's how the convo would of gone if they didn't have sex. They had sex, she lied and lied, and cried when she saw you for the first time after...yeah she feels guilty, but she was sober enough to make the choice early in the evening. Sounds to me like she knew EXACTLY what the evening held in store once she knew OM was gonna meet her. Sure, she probably had to keep convincing herself, but she knew.


----------



## happi_g_more2

Aspydad said:


> Six months is long enough to fall in love with someone. Sounds like you did fall for her and I do feel for you!! If I was in your shoes, I know exactly what I would do - RUN!! Turn around 180 degrees and don't turn back. *A woman doesn't have sex with someone unless she has strong feelings for them* - obviously she is into this guy! which means, sorry to say, she is may not be into you as deep as you are into her.


Yes, run away. Sounds like we are all on board with that. The bolded text, BULL****!!!! Chicks like to **** like anyone else. 



> Run away is my vote here. If she really does have strong feelings for you and this really was just a huge mistake on her part - she will not give up on you and will pursue you even once you have turned - and if she gives up quick, this will be the validation of what you suspect.


She will, but jamie aint gonna bite. This fish is gone.



> There is always another scenario here – she may be very insecure and damaged from past relationships and actually self-destructed her relationship with you before you could drop her. I mean she may be just so hurt from past relationships that she has a wall up and will not let herself fall for anyone. But, even if this is the case, I would still stick with what I said before and if she is really into you (walls that one puts up are not real in my opinion), she will not just let you turn from her without a fight.


Relevance?? People **** over people for all kinds of reasons. When you're the one getting ****ed, do you really care why? When it comes to non-marital relationships, you dont glue vase back together, you go and buy a new one.



> I will tell you that this did happen to me when was first dating my wife to be some 30 years ago - I came by to see her at her dorm - unannounced, and I drive up to see her getting out of the car of her old boy freind - I confronted her and told her I was done with her and drove off mad - and I really was not going to ever call her again - but, her roommate called me the next day and begged me to call my wife to be as she was crying uncontrollably - I did and found out that the old boyfriend picked her up from the library and just wanted to show her his new car - she did not want to walk home and thought it would not hurt to take a ride with him - never expecting the bad luck of me showing up at the exact time he dropped her off. We have been together now for 30 years now.


To make this story relevant to jamie, you need to substitute "new car" with "penis", then its the same thing.


----------



## happi_g_more2

One last thing jamie - everyone makes "the biggest mistake of their lives". For the lucky, its buying a new house at a 50 year market high. For others, its loosing the best thing that ever happend to them. Make this her biggest mistake. Chances are, she will track your whereabouts for a long as time. Become a ****in alpha bad ass. Ive said it other threads. You may already do these things, I dont know...but if you dont. Workout HARD!!! Eat healthy, dont smoke, drink only on occasion, read lost of books, take some form of self defense training (make it part of your workout regimen), last, if possible, try and make a better than decent living.
Dont get the wrong idea here. The fact is, at some point in the future she will see you or hear about and have 1 of 2 toughts
1) ehhhh...Im glad it didnt work out
2) ****, Im an idiot


----------



## not recognizable

" A woman doesn't have sex with someone unless she has strong feelings for them - obviously she is into this guy"

Untrue. Sometimes we just want it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

not recognizable said:


> " A woman doesn't have sex with someone unless she has strong feelings for them - obviously she is into this guy"
> 
> Untrue. Sometimes we just want it.


True, but not in this case. They had a good sex life and apparently strong feelings but she broke a date with him to be with the OM. That's not normal, that's damaged goods.


----------



## happi_g_more2

Nucking Futs said:


> True, but not in this case. They had a good sex life and apparently strong feelings but she broke a date with him to be with the OM. That's not normal, that's damaged goods.


still doesnt mean she has "strong feelings for OM". The whole "good sex life thing", as someone who is married and believes strongly in monogamy, Im just not buying 100% that its biologically natural for humans (ive only sort of cheated...cheated on 1 short termer to go to the next...some call it oat soiling. knowing what i know now, i call it despicable, but I digress). She didnt break a date with with jamie to be with OM. the way i understand it, she had plans, went to a bar, plans fell through, so the he came to meet her.


----------



## happi_g_more2

jamie, do you think she had a history with this guy? had she slept with him before? I know she said "1 time thing" but that could of meant "I know we use to ****, and we just, but that is a 1 time thing"


----------



## TRy

jamie323 said:


> What is OSF?


 It means Opposite Sex Friend.



jamie323 said:


> She got tipsy and was more interested in another man than me. She invited that man to dinner/drinks.. They got drunk, then did something she regretted.


 According to an earlier post about that night you stated that "she recounted the same story to one of her best friends 'she met her girlfriend for drinks, they went out for dinner and she had a steak, and it was great and that her and her friends came over to hang out and they had a sleepover." If you sub in the other man for "girlfriend" in her story, you probably have something very close to the truth right down to the steak. This story explains her "sleepover", but of course having a sleepover with a girlfriend is a whole different thing than having a sleepover with this other man.


----------



## clipclop2

well hopefully she'll take the hint and won't text you or call you again. But if she does it would probably be worth your while to be clear that you wish for her to stop contacting you .


----------



## Nucking Futs

happi_g_more2 said:


> still doesnt mean she has "strong feelings for OM". The whole "good sex life thing", as someone who is married and believes strongly in monogamy, Im just not buying 100% that its biologically natural for humans (ive only sort of cheated...cheated on 1 short termer to go to the next...some call it oat soiling. knowing what i know now, i call it despicable, but I digress). *She didnt break a date with with jamie to be with OM.* the way i understand it, she had plans, went to a bar, plans fell through, so the he came to meet her.


Yes she did. From post #1:



jamie323 said:


> She had plans to go out with a girlfriend for happy hour, because her friend is moving away, then we were going to meet up around 9. At around 8:45 she texted to say that she was not going to be able to make it to meet me, and that she and her friend were going to go downtown to get a bite to eat and have a few drinks.


At the time she texted Jamie that she wasn't going to make it she was already partying with the OM.


----------



## SF-FAN

not recognizable said:


> Yes. Someone on here said "don't date bar-hoppers." I have to agree, unless you're not looking for anything serious.
> Alcohol can increase sex drive in some and clouds judgement in all.


Call me boring but I can't wait until I am considered "too old" to be at the bars. I'm 36 and still feel that if I don't want to go, I'm a boring person. I don't want to get old but can't wait to get rid of that stigma. Bars are a breeding ground for affairs, one night stands and for men/women to do stupid sh*t with others just because they are "tipsy" and can't control themselves.


----------



## Remains

SF-FAN said:


> He does sound like a great guy, I've been told I'm a great guy, etc. So why do the "great guys" get all the BS while all the a**holes get the girls? Marriage is a farce so why not turn into an a**hole and have sex without restrictions...


The great guys get the girls too...obviously! It's just the a**holes don't care about the BS! Because they are full of it too. So yeah...great idea to be one.

....oh, and a**holes get cheated on too.

SF you sound bitter which is a shame. And btw, what kind of girl goes for an a**hole? Gotta wonder eh?


----------



## SF-FAN

Remains said:


> The great guys get the girls too...obviously! It's just the a**holes don't care about the BS! Because they are full of it too. So yeah...great idea to be one.
> 
> ....oh, and a**holes get cheated on too.
> 
> SF you sound bitter which is a shame. A*nd btw, what kind of girl goes for an a**hole*? Gotta wonder eh?


All of them...haha otherwise this forum would be lonely.


----------



## Remains

SF, that is a sweeping statement and you are likely to get dragged down in to a pit of sh*t if you carry on with the train of thought you are currently on. 

Time to clean up and move on out and up!


----------



## SF-FAN

Remains said:


> SF, that is a sweeping statement and you are likely to get dragged down in to a pit of sh*t if you carry on with the train of thought you are currently on.
> 
> Time to clean up and move on out and up!


I'm a little skewed right now because turns out my bosse's wife was cheating on him too. He just found a valentine's day card his WW was going to send to the OM. They've been married for over 20 yrs.

Also, was just told by my good friend, that his wife left him on Sunday. It's all around me right now. Compounded with the fact that I keep getting ignored even when I am just saying "hello" to someone online, a relationship with a non-cheating woman looks like an impossibility to me right now.


----------



## weightlifter

Respectfully.

I BEG TO DIFFER!!!!

I lived with a bad boy player in college. Yes azzholes have HUGE drawing power.

Then again. What my wife pulled pales compared to what SFs wife did and i still have very little unverified trust in my wife 1 year ago this coming Sunday.

SF. Im not gonna tell ya to get over it as much as push thru it. Have you read the thread by whyeme i told ya to read?. He was where you are. You have TO MAKE that outcome happen.


----------



## SF-FAN

weightlifter said:


> Respectfully.
> 
> I BEG TO DIFFER!!!!
> 
> I lived with a bad boy player in college. Yes azzholes have HUGE drawing power.
> 
> Then again. What my wife pulled pales compared to what SFs wife did and i still have very little unverified trust in my wife 1 year ago this coming Sunday.
> 
> SF. Im not gonna tell ya to get over it as much as push thru it. Have you read the thread by whyeme i told ya to read?. He was where you are. You have TO MAKE that outcome happen.


Yes I did and that's a great ending! I'm just at the beginning and it feels like I am in a deep hole I need to climb out of. There's no easy way about it. It's like continually living in pain with no clear remedy in sight. Either you lay down and die or take it die by die hoping the pain gets easier to handle. Being on here and venting is a huge help.


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Yes I did and that's a great ending! I'm just at the beginning and it feels like I am in a deep hole I need to climb out of. There's no easy way about it. It's like continually living in pain with no clear remedy in sight. Either you lay down and die or take it die by die hoping the pain gets easier to handle. Being on here and venting is a huge help.


Then vent away my man, vent away!!!! Just keep in mind, when you feel this type of dispair, just remember, you are still wayyyyyyyy too close to d-day. recognize, as you said, you are skewed..slanted....biased...jaded and that no matter how desperate your view of the world is, its simply not as bad as you think. things will get better.


----------



## Remains

SF-FAN said:


> I'm a little skewed right now because turns out my bosse's wife was cheating on him too. He just found a valentine's day card his WW was going to send to the OM. They've been married for over 20 yrs.
> 
> Also, was just told by my good friend, that his wife left him on Sunday. It's all around me right now. Compounded with the fact that I keep getting ignored even when I am just saying "hello" to someone online, a relationship with a non-cheating woman looks like an impossibility to me right now.


All men get ignored by women on dating sites...if that is what you are you are on about. And beware, some people on there are legit, some are there just looking because they are already taken. Somw are there because they will only answer to a super model who messages them. I would base nothing at all on an online dating experience.


----------



## weightlifter

not recognizable said:


> No, not all of them. Some don't even like "alphas."


MANY MANY do. No i would not trade away with the super alpha i know. But it would be fun to be him for a week or two. To be outright propositioned by models. Nope, not kidding.

Also roomed with the bad boy in college. Eye opening.


----------



## not recognizable

How rewarding.

Hey to each his/her own,, hopefully at least.
I like substance and sweetness and sensitivity.
But then again, I'm not a model.


----------



## SF-FAN

Wonder how the OP is doing. . .


----------



## happi_g_more2

SF-FAN said:


> Wonder how the OP is doing. . .


Lets see, you are like 4 weeks from dday?? and he is like 1 day. I think you know the answer  

Get busy getting strong!!!!


----------



## theroad

jamie323 said:


> You are right.. I am probably trying to whitewash all of this.. From the text messages, and her attitude, it is pretty obvious she had sex with another guy - or at least did something with him to have him asking for more at 2:30 am.
> 
> Im going out with a couple of friends tonight, without her. Should I just go dark the rest of the day and night - then confront tomorrow and tell her its over.


Why play games like a child. You know what happened. Man up and confront her.


----------



## theroad

weightlifter said:


> I would do the planned confront.
> 
> "I know what happened Friday..."
> 
> The netbook NEVER happened.


True no need to mention the book.


----------



## theroad

Affaircare said:


> "Well you just have a great time at that ski trip where you initially invited me and now you're trying to get rid of me. Oh by the way, I know what happened Friday,


I am reading this on 3/1/14. I hope this great advice was followed.


----------



## theroad

Remains said:


> All men get ignored by women on dating sites...............



Duh.

Women are selective. They have to. 1 man can sex with 100 women in a year and have100 kids.

1 woman can have sex with 100 men in 1 year. Though she will only be able to have 1 child with 1 man in that 1 year.

The Feminazi's and the politically correct society ignore basic biological evolution.



A STORY:

A boy on his birthday got a BD card from his grandparent's. He liked the card. Though he liked the crisp new $20 bill that was in the card more.

This boy was so proud of his gift. Then he remembered the girl that lived next door. How it was her birthday last week and how she showed off to him all of the gifts she got.

Though what the boy found distasteful was that the girl next door made a point of rubbing the fact in his face was that she made it known that she now had this, that, and those things and that he the boy next door did not have this, that, or those things.

So when the boy saw the girl next door in her yard he went over to her yard to show off what he got for his birthday from his grandparent's. For he knew that the girl had gotten a this, that, and those for her birthday. She did not have a $20 bill. Let alone a $20 bill that was crisp and new.

Upon greeting the girl he proudly showed off his new crisp wrinkle free $20 bill that he got from his grandparent's for his birthday. Then he took glee in reporting to the girl that he had a $20 bill and that she did not.

After the boy was done rubbing into her face that he had a $20 bill and she did not. The girl in a very calm and confident manner responded back to the boy.

She said: So.

The boy flustered that he could not make her feel envious the way she had made him feel last week. Thought how can I top what this girl has said. The boy racked his brain. It seemed like for ever and he could not come up with anything to say. What could he brag that he had and the girl next door could never have?

In reality it was only a couple of seconds. Though in the moment it seemed as an eternity. Then his brain clicked. A small involuntary smile grew on his face. For the boy was enjoying his impending victory at one upmanship.

The boy tells the girl: I have a penis and you do not.

The girl responded in an even more calm and confident manner. The girl said: I have a pu$$y. And my mom said that with a pu$$y I and can get all the penises and $20 bills that I want.


----------



## clipclop2

As soon as you said Feminazi you lost my respect. 

People don't ignore the underlying behaviors of people. Basic biology explains but a part of the larger picture. 

I've never told that story the way you tell it. I certainly wouldn't include a $20 bill. All it does is make men look foolish and women look like potential *****s. The truth is, a gay guy can get many more penises than I can get and he has his own.


----------



## theroad

clipclop2 said:


> As soon as you said Feminazi you lost my respect.
> 
> People don't ignore the underlying behaviors of people. Basic biology explains but a part of the larger picture.
> 
> I've never told that story the way you tell it. I certainly wouldn't include a $20 bill. All it does is make men look foolish and women look like potential *****s. The truth is, a gay guy can get many more penises than I can get and he has his own.


I do not want your or the Feminazi's respect.

You need to discern when to take things literal and when said to see that they illustrate a concept.


----------



## DeterminedToThrive

theroad said:


> The girl responded in an even more calm and confident manner. The girl said: I have a pu$$y. And my mom said that with a pu$$y I and can get all the penises and $20 bills that I want.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want your or the Feminazi's respect.
> 
> You need to discern when to take things literal and when said to see that they illustrate a concept.


The "concept" is easily understandable and I would hope that in this day and age anyone could illustrate a concept without calling all women potential wh0res... I'm just saying .... c'mon


----------



## Remains

theroad said:


> I do not want your or the Feminazi's respect.
> 
> You need to discern when to take things literal and when said to see that they illustrate a concept.


Duh you too. Exactly! Perhaps learning when a point is being made in order to help someone who is feeling very down on himself. Stating a fact that a lot of men perhaps don't realise when they use dating sites and instead take it personally.


----------



## Headspin

"The Feminazi"

:allhail:


....this place is just brilliant !


----------



## clipclop2

theroad said:


> I do not want your or the Feminazi's respect.
> 
> You need to discern when to take things literal and when said to see that they illustrate a concept.


You just called me a feminatzi. 

The only concept you illustrate is that pathetic, angry guys don't get women for a good reason -- their personalities suck.


----------



## wranglerman

clipclop2 said:


> You just called me a feminatzi.
> 
> The only concept you illustrate is that pathetic, angry guys don't get women for a good reason -- their personalities suck.


Will you stop playing hard to get and just exchange digits with him, this on-line EA is getting way out of hand 

On a serious note, he didn't want "your" respect "nor" that of the feminazi.

You bitter tonight clipclop? Need one of them (((((HUGS)))) :rofl:


----------



## clipclop2

If that is you in your avatar, it looks like you could use a hug a lot more than me! That is, after those brush burns heal. Ouch!


----------



## manfromlamancha

It looks like Jamie has left the building or is in Paris ?


----------



## jamie323

manfromlamancha said:


> It looks like Jamie has left the building or is in Paris ?


No, I leave for Paris on Friday - alone. I got a refund on her ticket and mailed her a check.

She has texted me numerous times, and called as well. Of course she said nothing happened, and she is sorry. However, Im not a dolt. I texted her I knew she was lying even now, and that I could never trust her.


----------



## weightlifter

Jamie turn this into the see everything in Paris week and work on the start of HEALING.

Take TONS of pictures! bring extra camera batteries.


----------



## alexm

jamie323 said:


> the message he sent was "Im busted up, my roommate is playing heart, you should come over' I barely know what that means,


I can't definitively tell you what this means, because urban slang is constantly changing, but I would take this to mean "I'm hurt/bored/just out of a relationship/lonely, and my room mate is out with his gf/in his room with his gf, and I want some too."

In other words, lonely, bored and horny. A booty call.

Or it could just mean he's bored and his room mate is playing cards.


----------



## Squeakr

alexm said:


> I can't definitively tell you what this means, because urban slang is constantly changing, but I would take this to mean "I'm hurt/bored/just out of a relationship/lonely, and my room mate is out with his gf/in his room with his gf, and I want some too."
> 
> In other words, lonely, bored and horny. A booty call.
> 
> Or it could just mean he's bored and his room mate is playing cards.


Guess I am old as I thought about the card game as well, or possibly the band (as their music can definitely bring someone down when they are in a funk. To all the Heart fans, I like their music ( I like lots of different bands and genre or music so don't judge) but it is dark when depressed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jamie323

Squeakr said:


> Guess I am old as I thought about the card game as well, or possibly the band (as their music can definitely bring someone down when they are in a funk. To all the Heart fans, I like their music ( I like lots of different bands and genre or music so don't judge) but it is dark when depressed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im not sure what it was.. I know that the ski trip she went on this last weekend was a group thing, but I also know that guy was there also. So - the whole thing is a lot of B.S.. I just wonder how many other guys she slept with while we were together.


----------



## jamie323

Ive got a question - I didnt tell her that I looked at her phone.. she continues to try and contact me. What is the normal reaction when a cheating significant other finds out you looked at their phone? Do they get mad at you for 'messing up the trust' ?


----------



## thummper

Well, since you're not married to her, why should you care what she thinks?


----------



## 3putt

jamie323 said:


> Ive got a question - I didnt tell her that I looked at her phone.. she continues to try and contact me. What is the normal reaction when a cheating significant other finds out you looked at their phone? Do they get mad at you for 'messing up the trust' ?


What...do...you...care? Had she not been acting in a suspicious manner in the first place, you never would've had a reason to check up on her.

She brought the snooping on herself. Your need for honesty in your life trumps her desire for that kind of privacy. And if she balks at that simply explain to her what she is engaging isn't privacy, but secrecy. And secrecy has no place in a relationship or marriage.


----------



## cpacan

*Sv: Re: Ugh.. Not again..*



jamie323 said:


> Ive got a question - I didnt tell her that I looked at her phone.. she continues to try and contact me. What is the normal reaction when a cheating significant other finds out you looked at their phone? Do they get mad at you for 'messing up the trust' ?


Reaction would probably be: "you betrayed my trust, you're too controlling"


----------



## jamie323

thummper said:


> Well, since you're not married to her, why should you care what she thinks?


Oh, it was just curiosity..


----------



## Squeakr

*Re: Sv: Re: Ugh.. Not again..*



cpacan said:


> Reaction would probably be: "you betrayed my trust, you're too controlling"


:iagree::iagree::iagree: This would be more than likely the case. I am trying to see about R with my WW and she is supposed to have complete transparency (even though she has given me full access to her stuff and tells me it is fine if I looks as she isn't doing anything wrong), but I still get the raw emotion when I look and can see she is peeved to say the least.


----------



## SF-FAN

*Re: Sv: Re: Ugh.. Not again..*



Squeakr said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree: This would be more than likely the case. I am trying to see about R with my WW and she is supposed to have complete transparency (even though she has given me full access to her stuff and tells me it is fine if I looks as she isn't doing anything wrong), but I still get the raw emotion when I look and can see she is peeved to say the least.


YEP, it's like they feel like the BS is doing something wrong by looking at their accounts/phone. My WW did not want to give full transparency because she felt I was invading her privacy and even though she was married she had the right to have a "private" life. EVEN after she cheated. Such a moron.


----------



## soccermom2three

I wouldn't say a word about snooping. Not letting her know how you found out will hopefully help the next guy she gets involved with since she won't know to guard her phone.


----------



## convert

yes she does not know you know more and she probably thinks she can minimize it.


----------



## badmemory

jamie323 said:


> Ive got a question - I didnt tell her that I looked at her phone.. she continues to try and contact me. What is the normal reaction when a cheating significant other finds out you looked at their phone? Do they get mad at you for 'messing up the trust' ?


If they have a half a brain in their head, they'll realize that the monitoring was obviously justified, since what you found proved that it was.

Some WS's will of course pull that card never the less. It's just blame shifting.


----------



## Chaparral

If I was in a serious relationship, I wouldn't think of going on a trip without my SO. Dittoes for girls nights out.


----------



## TRy

jamie323 said:


> I know that the ski trip she went on this last weekend was a group thing, but I also know that guy was there also. So - the whole thing is a lot of B.S.. I just wonder how many other guys she slept with while we were together.


 If she is in a committed relationship with you, she should not be going on "group" trips with other men if you are not included. If she were not in a committed relationship, there is one set of conduct that she should follow. If she is in a committed relationship, there is another set of conduct that she should follow. What is perfectly OK if she were not in a committed relationship, may not be OK if she is in a committed relationship. She is conducting herself as if she is not in a committed relationship. It is just that simple.


----------



## Affaircare

jamie323 said:


> Ive got a question - I didnt tell her that I looked at her phone.. she continues to try and contact me.


This is pretty easy to deal with. Send her a letter, registered return receipt, saying that you want her to cease all attempts to contact you: phone, text, email, and mail. Keep a copy of the letter you send, along with the green postcard from the return receipt. Then if she keeps trying to contact you, just get a temporary restraining order. That USUALLY will indicate to people you are serious, but if not, go to court, get one for a year, and if she tries again, she goes before a judge. 



> What is the normal reaction when a cheating significant other finds out you looked at their phone? Do they get mad at you for 'messing up the trust' ?


Oh of course! That would be because you are the one they blame for "invading their privacy"--after all it couldn't be THEIR OWN FAULT or the fact that they chose to lie to you, cover it up, and commit adultery.  It must be you. 

*BUT....*

...don't fall for that line of crazy-making reasoning. Here's why. When a couple are exclusive, there is reasonable expectation for PRIVACY but not SECRECY.

PRIVACY would be when someone closes the door when they go to the bathroom or change their clothes. It's like modesty. They are still 100% sharing their True Self and are transparent with you (that is to say, being "see through" enough that you can see who they really are, warts and all). 

SECRECY would be when someone deliberately hides their thoughts or feelings or actions from you so that you do not see their True Self. They are NOT transparent and you do not see who they really are. 

Her phone might fall under "privacy" if work owns the phone or if she is planning a surprise party for you. But a cell phone, between loving, committed people DOES NOT fall under "secrecy." To be in an exclusive relationship means that you do not keep secrets from the one you love.


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## VFW

I would keep the fact of how you know to yourself and just let it fade away. She was not forthcoming to you, so I see no need to inform her unless she asks. I imagine she would only blameshift this to be your issue and not a wrong doing on her part. I know it isn't easy, when you think you have a solid relationship, but it is out there.


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## Headspin

My friend ........wipe your feet

If you take the trouble to spend half an hour looking at other threads in this specific forum you will quickly summize just how fortunate you have been

I mean that.

No kids
no marriage 
no houses 
no finances 
no lawyers
no years of ongoing triggering 
no deceit and lies and later truths to unfold 

and although hurting now, you are at least armed with how to deal with anything close to this in the future

You've actually nipped this in the bud and can go onwards confident in your ability to learn from this close call and move forward

A lucky escape

:smthumbup:


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## Headspin

Oh and btw the so deeply wounded and offended stance about you checking up on them even now after two relationships with cheaters leaves me completely hilariously perplexed 

cheat 1 - "How dare you look at my phone bills"

cheat 2 - " My emails are fking private" 

Both screamed at me after I'd unraveled their huge strands of serial cheating treachery and betrayals 

Makes me laugh even now :rofl: 

the balls they have to do that after what they've put us through


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## wranglerman

Such is the bluddy transparency between me and my wife now, I have to tell her when she gets messages and emails, she couldn't care less about it all now.

And as for privacy, she said this nigh on a year ago "I will hide nothing more from you, but be sure to keep air freshner handy when you come with me to the bathroom", it was light hearted humor, but she was serious about the "no such thing as privacy in our marriage from this point on".

If you are a couple, then you have a right to know, if it is jst casual, then fair game, couples have a right to know if something one or the other is doing is going to affect them in an adverse way.


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## 3putt

wranglerman said:


> And as for privacy, she said this nigh on a year ago "I will hide nothing more from you, but be sure to keep air freshner handy when you come with me to the bathroom", it was light hearted humor, but she was serious about the "no such thing as privacy in our marriage from this point on".


LOL.....

That's a bit to the extreme, but at least she has the right attitude.


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## Headspin

wranglerman said:


> Such is the bluddy transparency between me and my wife now, I have to tell her when she gets messages and emails, she couldn't care less about it all now.
> 
> And as for privacy, she said this nigh on a year ago "I will hide nothing more from you, but be sure to keep air freshner handy when you come with me to the bathroom", it was light hearted humor, but she was serious about the "no such thing as privacy in our marriage from this point on".
> 
> If you are a couple, then you have a right to know, if it is jst casual, then fair game, couples have a right to know if something one or the other is doing is going to affect them in an adverse way.


I may be simplistic but this is a given - you are both an open book in a healthy relationship - there is nothing to hide from one another, so it's not an issue but the moment that is breached for whatever reason then we're talking a different game plan 

My stbx used to laugh at the stories from my previous relationship that involved cheating "how could she" "that's disgusting" "what a complete slapper" etc etc 

BUT when she started her own sh!t suddenly "well everyone's entitled to privacy"

:scratchhead:

............yeah right


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## clipclop2

Why is this thread still here? She is an ex, right? Nothing more to say. Tell her to duck of and never contract you again and move on.


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## SF-FAN

Affaircare said:


> *This is pretty easy to deal with. Send her a letter, registered return receipt, saying that you want her to cease all attempts to contact you: phone, text, email, and mail. Keep a copy of the letter you send, along with the green postcard from the return receipt. Then if she keeps trying to contact you, just get a temporary restraining order. That USUALLY will indicate to people you are serious, but if not, go to court, get one for a year, and if she tries again, she goes before a judge.*
> 
> 
> 
> Oh of course! That would be because you are the one they blame for "invading their privacy"--after all it couldn't be THEIR OWN FAULT or the fact that they chose to lie to you, cover it up, and commit adultery.  It must be you.
> 
> *BUT....*
> 
> ...don't fall for that line of crazy-making reasoning. Here's why. When a couple are exclusive, there is reasonable expectation for PRIVACY but not SECRECY.
> 
> PRIVACY would be when someone closes the door when they go to the bathroom or change their clothes. It's like modesty. They are still 100% sharing their True Self and are transparent with you (that is to say, being "see through" enough that you can see who they really are, warts and all).
> 
> SECRECY would be when someone deliberately hides their thoughts or feelings or actions from you so that you do not see their True Self. They are NOT transparent and you do not see who they really are.
> 
> Her phone might fall under "privacy" if work owns the phone or if she is planning a surprise party for you. But a cell phone, between loving, committed people DOES NOT fall under "secrecy." To be in an exclusive relationship means that you do not keep secrets from the one you love.


Courts don't necessarily hand out RO's that easy. Trust me, I work for an attorney and we've had clients that attempt to get RO's for actual harassment and the courts do not grant them. It has to be serious fear for your life and even then in some cases if the other person hasn't broken any laws, the RO still won't be granted. This justice system sucks sometimes.


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## Ceegee

SF-FAN said:


> Courts don't necessarily hand out RO's that easy. Trust me, I work for an attorney and we've had clients that attempt to get RO's for actual harassment and the courts do not grant them. It has to be serious fear for your life and even then in some cases if the other person hasn't broken any laws, the RO still won't be granted. This justice system sucks sometimes.



Depends on the state. 

I have one on my XW. All I had to do was ask the judge.


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## SF-FAN

Wonder how OP is.


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