# your thoughts on this



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I was on the computer in our bedroom doing a few things before heading to bed. My H comes into the room, gives me a kiss and tells me good-night. He says he will be in bed later as he needs to take care of some business for work. I say "ok." I spent more time on the computer than I planned so I went out the our living room to tell him good night myself. He wasnt there. I thought he had gone outside for his cigarette. So I brush my teeth, wash my face, the nightly bedtime routine. Well, a good 20 minutes passes and he is still not back inside. I go out to look for him and he is gone. I started calling him. He is not answering his phone. He is missing for an hour before he finally shows back up. He says he went for a walk. I dont think I'm buying this. He has knee problems and walking long distances is hard for him. So for him to go out on an hours walk....and at midnight even???? Far as not answering the phone (I called him every 2 minutes for an hour) he claims he never got a call from me. He then brushed off his disappearance as if it was no big deal. Here is what I think. I think he thought I would have been sleeping and not noticed he was gone. I think he had this woman pick him up and he took off and did who knows what with her for an hour. before I always thought he was just having an EA with her. Now I fear it is deeper. 
Thoughts please?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah, I can see how you would deduce that, I mean why say you're gonna get some stuff done for work, and then step out for an hour? The fact that he's not answering his phone? Massive red flags, it's not a big deal???? I am waving the bullsh*t flag here, LOL!!!!

Now, it IS possible maybe he walked a short distance, sat on a bench for awhile to chill, and then came home, but you don't know that either, kind of an odd time for that. I don't remember, does the OW live in the same town, or close by?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

There are no benches for him to walk to and just sit down. And going out for a walk at midnight is something he has never done before in our entire 14 yr marriage. We live close to a bike/walk path where I will often walk the dogs. I ask him all the time if he will walk with me but he always declines. The OW lives about 10-15 minutes away.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Check his cell phone records before you overreact.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah, see? He expected you to just accept that story if he's never done that? LOL She is definitely capable then of quick pick up, quick drop off. I am NOT trying to feed you doubt, I am just simply agreeing with you, that the behavior is surely something to be suspicious of. I would DEFINITELY be thinking the same thing you are right now. Do you have access to cell phone records? It depends on the provider, mine doesn't provide numbers txted, and I don't get the call logs until next billing cycle. Maybe you could see if on that date there was a phone call to her phone right before he left on his "walk?" Not sure if that'd be helpful in getting the truth.

Now remind me, is he currently in EA? or has he since "ended it"


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I don't think you need to think past what is established and be a peace with the fact that you will never really know...

the established fact which every thought has to be based on is...

He is a cheater and a lying piece of sh*t. He is devoid of all moral and ethical boundries in his actions. If his mouth is moving, he's probably lying. Believe none of what he says, half of what you see and only what you can verify. Probably a safer bet to be sceptical of that too.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Oh, and he told me he would be late at work tonight to write schedules (this is the 3rd time this week he has had to stay late to write schedules)


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

hmmm.....is there any way you can pop by his work? Just to say hi? I guess I don't know what his job is, is it a place with alot of employees?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I dont get how he does this right under my nose and then expects me to live as if it's ok? he brushes it off like it's nothing. he gives me the lamest excuses. Right now, we are still together. I have to bide my time and save a little bit of money. I hope I can play cool until then.
Far as the phone goes, he has a lock on his. And another red flag, is about a week ago, he offered to put a gps on his phone for me. last night (before he disappeared) I asked him about that. He said "we didnt need to do that"


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Sounds sketchy.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Paramore, I wish I could just stop into his job but his work is an hours drive from our home. And we lost one of our cars thanks to a drunk driver and we are down to one vehicle. He uses our only car to get to work and I hitch rides from friends and family since my work is only 10 minutes from our home.
I dont get him. He still tells me everyday he loves me. He holds me at night when we are in bed. He wants to make love with me. He will text me at work to say hi but yet he thinks nothing of going off and being with OW. I had thought it to be EA at first but I think it is becoming more.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

It may very well, but unfortunately unless you get solid proof, you have nothing. IF, and I say IF he is having a PA, he's got you in the perfect position, he knows you can't drive to see him, and a gps on the phone? He could just leave his phone in his car and OM drive to his work and then they do whatever....I mean there's a thousand things he COULD do. For starters, save up money and get some economical little car so you don't have to rely on rides from other people.

I was asking earlier, has he confirmed to you that they stopped talking? Depending on your cell provider, you can see the calls incoming and outgoing, and if you have a joint cell account, and you have access to the account, for example, I am Alltel, so I can look those up on the MyAccount Website. You can look at that without decoding the lock on his phone lol. IF in fact, he has said he hasn't been contacting her, which you haven't mentioned yet, and you see phone calls back and forth, that is proof in itself that the EA is still going on.

The only way you could get proof of a PA is if you can get access to email, social networking sites, actually see if he's at work when he says he is. Have you thought about just calling his work, not his cell, just to say hi!! If they say he's not there, then that's something to go off of.


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## AJ916 (Mar 28, 2011)

The GPS on your phone (Google Latitude for example) can be manually set by the user to say you are somewhere other than where you really are. Gave me a HUGE false sense of security, until I started playing around with it and realized I could set it to say I was at work when I was home, or anywhere in between. Useless.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I am college educated in research and investigations. I know how to look at the evidence and put the pieces together. Still, he thinks he can tell me some story and I'm going to buy it. Ergh! I am starting to get so angry with him!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL!!!!! It's amazing how stupid they think we are, makes me laugh. Use that anger girl, it wasn't until I started getting the real anger that I found that last little shred of inner strength I had left, and it has done nothing but grow, the strength not the anger lol. Am I the Hulk? Not yet LOL, but with IC and self growth, I'll get there, and so will you. Is the anger still there? yes, but it's not self consuming anymore, as with the grief, sadness, and I have the sneaking suspicion it won't go anywhere for awhile. 

Like I said, use that anger to find your strength, it wasn't until I hit that anger, that I could find that strength and use it to take care of myself, maybe it'll work for you too.

First things first, save up and get a car so you aren't relying on friends and family, that's a step in taking your independence back whether this works out or not, and put it in YOUR name only.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks Paramore  This is what I am doing. I am biding my time to save up some money, get myself a car and maybe even move out of our house and into a new place. (we rent our house) Maybe I should ask him for an open marriage. Hey honey, since you're already seeing someone, how about if I do the same


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL!!!!! I wouldn't ask for that, although I am guessing you are being sarcastic, which made me smile. I am envisioning you doing that right now, and I would pay money to see the look on your husbands face, I'd be rolling on the floor with laughter. If biding your time is all you can really do right now, remember to work on yourself on the inside too.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> Thanks Paramore  Maybe I should ask him for an open marriage. Hey honey, since you're already seeing someone, how about if I do the same



You'd probably get the same response I did. "I wish you would, then you'll leave me alone." I did say that commitment should go both ways. Since she refuses commitment, then the freedom should go both ways also. When she told me she wanted to go meet him (he lives 18 hours away instead of 10 minutes away), I did meet a lovely lady and asked her on a date. I called her back the next day and told her I shouldn't date until the marriage is officially over. I thought that might shake my wife up a bit. However, she seemed to totally not care one bit. She is a master of deception lately, so it may have bothered her. But she let on that she would be glad if I did. Actually, she probably would since that would give her further justification to continue her affair.

I'm sorry you're in this situation. It certainly is not a good place to be. You're most likely seeing the tip of the iceberg. I know I find more iceberg every day.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

AD - You have a few choices here. 

1. Gather more proof - this is more for you then for him, if you need something more than your gut to go on. Inevitably he will deny something is going on, which is part of the infidelity script. If, for your own piece of mind you need more proof, then the GPS trick or a keylogger should help get the info you need.

2. Assuming he is cheating, then you need to decide if you want to try to salvage things or cut and run. Either are within your rights.

If you want to salvage things, there is a process for it that AffairCare outlines. It's good advice. Search it on this site.

If you want to cut and run, then tell him straight out, you know he is cheating, you have no interest in being in a marriage with 3 people, and ask him to move out. 

A few things to acknowledge: 

- While in the midst of an affair, the cheating spouse is hopped up on all sorts of brain chemicals that makes them act much different then they normally would. Personally, I see cheater behaviour as very similar to that of a drug addict (or sociopath) - frequent lying, blameshifting, denials in the face of abundant proof, extreme self-centeredness. This all usually passes but it can take awhile. Men often come out of it quicker when the wife retreats. But not always.

- Tolerating it is usually the worst thing to do. Forcing the issue by confrontation and being strong to the spew of bs that will come out of his mouth will force him to choose. Most men that get kicked out come crawling back.

- Sometime advice is given to be the "partner of his dreams" to win him back. I personal find that humiliating advice and that the cost to your soul to greater than the gain. But that's just me.

- If you want to save things, and he does crawl back, you'll be served by having him read infidelity recovery info. You need to impart to him that HE is responsible for making this right and you expect ACTIONS not just words. But before you get to that stage, he'll need to come out of the fog.

Infidelity is really very similar to drug addiction. It's the same confrontation, rock bottom, detox, recovery model.

Hope that helps.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> AD - You have a few choices here.
> 
> 1. Gather more proof - this is more for you then for him, if you need something more than your gut to go on. Inevitably he will deny something is going on, which is part of the infidelity script. If, for your own piece of mind you need more proof, then the GPS trick or a keylogger should help get the info you need.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Your advice is helpful. I'm scared to be without him but at the same time, it's getting too hard to stay with him. Do you have a link for infidelity recovery? Or where can I find this?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Go to affaircare.com or marriagebuilders.com


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

This isn't right, get snooping, put a Voice Activated Recorder in his car, GPs, a key logger on the comp, get a hold of his phone, check emails, texts.........if he is seeing someone else, tell him to leave if he won't stop.........
then you expose to everyone important to him and the OW, best way to break up an affair is to bring it into the open, can't live the secret life when everyone knows what you are up to......
If he refuses, you ask him to leave if he gives her up, complete transparency is a must, all passwords are a must, 
setting up extraordinary precautions and boundaries need to be put into place for recovery of this relationship
sorry you find yourself here and asking for help


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Here is a summary of the past few months occurrences...
(Oct or Nov 20101)I start becoming suspicious as I begin to notice he is very possessive of his phone. It used to be after he got home from work, he'd put on the charger and that would be that. I noticed he began to hold it every moment. He would also keep it on silent and he would keep it face down hidden in his lap. So one night after he fell asleep, I took his phone and looked through it. I found a picture of a woman (the same one I suspect him of being involved with now. She is a former co-worker of his) I confronted him about this and his answer was that it a picture from her facebook. He was just checking up some features in his phone and had used her picture to see if he could upload someone's picture off their facebook. He then apologized that I was upset by it and he removed the picture from his phone.
(about one week later) I am feeling better. Things seem to be going good. But I decided to check his phone again. This time I found he was exchanging sex text messages with a different woman (another co-worker from the same past job) There was a thread of about 5 or 6 sex messages about how they would like to F*** each other. I confronted him about this. He made no excuses this time. He apologized and agreed to be accountable to me for whatever I needed from him. (the woman he sex-texted with I do firmly believe he has no contact with anymore)
Well, time goes on and he is following my requirements of him. He allows me to go through his phone nightly. I always know where he is when we are not together. I have full access to emails and all passwords. Again, things seem to get better.
(Dec 2010) I am at my daughter's judo lesson. I text my H to tell him that there is dinner at home in the crock-pot for him. About an hour n half later he calls me and says he is now on his way home. I thought he was already home. He says since he had time he stopped at a local wine store for a glass of wine. Something about this seemed fishy to me. So, I dug into it. I looked up this woman's facebook page (the same one I believe to be involved with him now) and even though my H claims he went alone, her status update on her FB said that she just drank 2 glasses of wine. The time it was posted was via mobile phone and at the exact same time my H was drinking wine. Now she did not say where she drank her wine, only that she had 2 glasses. Then I went thru my H wallet and found the receipt that shows 4 glasses of wine. He told me that he drank that wine all by himself. Yup, he had 4 glasses of wine in an hour and was still good. Not even tipsy. (Yeah right.) This he still denies that he was out with her that night to this day. 
Things calmed back down again. (Jan 2011) he is fired from his job. I told him now since he no longer worked at this place with this woman, then there would be no reason for him to keep in contact with her (he was her boss) he refused this. He said he would keep talking with her. He then promised me that he wouldnt ever see her, but he wished to remain friends by texting or the occassional phone call. The next day. The very next day after telling me he wouldnt see her at all in person, he takes our daughter and meets up with her and her 2 kids for an afternoon of sledding. After sledding they all go out to the movies together. (I found out when my daughter came home and told me all about the fun she had with daddy's friend) I kicked him out of the house this night. He came home around 11am the next day and picked up our daughter to go to a friends house (this friend was male with a 6 yr old daughter himself. Our girls are good friends) They came home about 9pm. He slept at home that night but we have not spoken at all. Well, I tried to talk to him but he refused. The next night he takes off on his own and is gone the entire night. He comes home about 7am. Almost 5 days pass before we talk. I tell him he can choose me or he can choose her. if he wanted her, I would give him a divorce and we could end things as peacefully as possible. He wouldn't answer me. So I told him i was going to bed and that there was a spot saved for him if he chose our marriage. That night he crawled in bed with me. I was thrilled. I believed he chose me and I believed he understood that he would need to end all contact with her. It was rough for about a week after that but eventually we got back into our normal routines. Until maybe a week and a half afterwards I was on my FB when off to the side where it shows you "people you may know" is her profile with a picture of her and my husband together. His arms around her and she leaning into his chest. She has even written on the picture "You & me" with a little heart next to it. Disgusting. I asked my husband about this picture and he said sorry I was bothered by it. I ask him if he is still talking to her and he says he hadnt recently (I dont know if that was true or not) Once again I believe things are ok. He had given me the impression he was no longer talking to her.
(Feb 2011) we get our tax refund in. He says he is going to go pay bills. I wanted to go with him but he insisted I stay home and sleep in. I didnt think much about it. That night he says he wanted to go see a friend and have a few beers. To be a kind, patient and understanding wife, I say "have fun" He was gone about 3 hours and came home. FFW about 2 weeks later. I go in his wallet to give our son some lunch money for school. I find a receipt for kmart. I start reading over it. He has brought a card, a blanket and a large gift bag. It was dated the very same day we got our refund in which was also the very same night he went out with his "friend" for a few beers. I asked him about it and he had no answer. He only stood there and looked at me. Finally I said whatever and went to bed. We have not spoken about that since then.
Again, days go by and I am feeling better. He is home with me every night. I know where he is. He tells me he loves me everyday. Well, 2 months after he lost his last job, he finally got a new job. Since he has started this new job (3 or 4 weeks ago now)he has had several days where he is extremely late coming home from work (4 to 5 hours late) same excuse every time. "I was busy at work. I couldn't get away. As the general manager it is my responsibility to stay and make sure everything is in order. I had to write a schedule." One night he sent me a text message. last week on his day off, he left to go write a schedule (in all his yrs working in this field, he has never once left the house for that reason.) He was gone for 3 and a half hours. last night he disappeared for an hour after he thought I was already in bed. Now tonight he is scheduled off work at 8pm but told me he will be late so he can write a schedule. (Another one? he wrote 3 last week.) He has now password locked his phone, his computer and changed all his passwords to emails and stuff. He refuses to share them with me.
So, this is it to date. I dont know how deeply he is involved with this person but I do believe him to be involved somehow.
Sorry for the book. But that is the summary of what has been going on.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

I like what another member wrote about anger. This emotion is a siren, blaring that something is wrong and that you need to protect yourself.
Trust your intuition. If I listened to mine more often, I would have saved myself a lot of stress and heartache. You don't need to snoop. You already know enough to save money to leave.
Confront your husband and make him aware that you will NOT tolerate infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Well, he has been pretty consistent. It's funny how they have power over us to convince us that nothing is going on. Not really funny. I guess it is easy to believe because we want to believe it. The signs don't look good. They look all too familiar to me. I can't offer much advice, but it helps me to know I'm not alone in this painful situation. I'm sorry you are here.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Now that there is more detail Apples, I think you already know what the husband is doing, with the wine receipt, and facebook statuses, and the fact that he keeps his phone locked and changed all passwords, I am pretty sure he is definitely in an EA/PA. The not coming home at all, coming home late, just too many red flags girl. Use that anger, channel it into the strength.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Sorry, he is cheating, but you know that. The fact that he won't acknowledge it and has gotten a pass at all the past betrayals have lulled him in a sense of security, because you take it and let things slide with confronting them.

Having gone through a similar thing years ago, I would kick him out. It's too disrespectful and the continued lies just make another child to take care of. You are being used. I'm sorry.

Did you read the affaircare stuff?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> Well, he has been pretty consistent. It's funny how they have power over us to convince us that nothing is going on. Not really funny. I guess it is easy to believe because we want to believe it. The signs don't look good. They look all too familiar to me. I can't offer much advice, but it helps me to know I'm not alone in this painful situation. I'm sorry you are here.


I'm sorry too, Hurting. But there is comfort in knowing that there are people out there who know and understand, even if we only know them thru the computer.


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## ladyybyrd (Jan 4, 2011)

All red flags. Coming home late from work every now and then no big deal, but most nights of the week, suspicious. Trust your intuition. Put a digital voice recorder (a voice activated one) in his car. you can always get a key logger for a cell phone, it just depends on what kind of phone he has, but you have to be able to access the phone to get in on there. He is cheating and it is just not a EA. You need to get the proof that you need. It is funny how they make us think we are the crazy ones. He wants you to think you are loosing your mind.

Keep quite about everything (it's hard I know.) until l you get enough solid proof that he can't denigh. If you confront without it it will be a lot harder to find anything, if at all.


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## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Going to point out the obvious:



AppleDucklings said:


> (Oct or Nov 20101)I start becoming suspicious as I begin to notice *he is very possessive of his phone.* It used to be after he got home from work, he'd put on the charger and that would be that. I noticed he began to hold it every moment. He would also keep it on silent and he would keep it face down hidden in his lap. So one night after he fell asleep, I took his phone and looked through it.* I found a picture of a woman*
> 
> *I found he was exchanging sex text messages with a different woman (another co-worker from the same past job) There was a thread of about 5 or 6 sex messages about how they would like to F*** each other.*
> 
> ...


You don't know how deeply he is involved? Are you serious? Or are you just turning a blind eye to the obvious. By the math, they have been carrying on an affair for five months, at MINIMUM. Which means it's prob been going on longer than that.

The fact that you are saying he gives you "the impresion" that he's not talking to her or you "figured" he ended all contact says everything. If you haven't told him straight up it needs to end and let him know what the consequences of it not ending will be, he is going to continue to walk all over you as he has for months now. You are his doormat. His safety net. The woman waiting at home for him while he has his lover on the side. She has zero respect for your marriage if she's posting FB pics with hearts and her arms all over your husband. He has even less respect for your marriage since he can't even be man enough to tell you what you already know. He is lying to your face every day. It's disgusting. And even more crazy is you are choosing to believe his lies despite all of the truth in your face. 

You can keep going the way you are about it until he finally moves all his stuff out to be with this lady or wait and wait til the newness of his affair wears off and hoping he may stay with you while your trust is destroyed OR you can take a stand and let him know your worth. 

And it sounds like she wasn't the only one considering he messaged someone else saying how badly he wanted to F*ck her. A serial cheat. If you haven't been tested for STDs, do it today. He has without a doubt slept with her.

Choice is yours.

If she is married or has a boyfriend, you need to tell her husband TODAY. But more than that, you need to find your self-respect and dignity.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Thank you Jellybeans for your reponse. You are so right. I know that the facts are spitting in my face but it seems so easier to close my eyes and not look at them than to have to see what is happening and be personally destroyed (all over again) this isn't his 1st affair. 
Well, let me talk about yesterday. This is probably me wanting so bad to see something good in him, I suppose. But yesterday (the day after he snuck off and was missing for an hour) My H was so super nice to me. He was at work all day but he sent me lovey text messages. He called me while at work and talked to me while he did some paperwork, he was telling me about what he was doing. He the called me on his way home from work and talked to me some more. lack of communication is also a very big issue for us. I try to get him to talk to me but he has no interest. I'm very lonely in the communications department. Our conversations rarely go further than one liners anymore. Like "whats for dinner?" or "what time do you work today?" I have tried so hard to get him to talk more with me but his response has always been "we live together, we see each other everyday. What more do you want?' he makes me feel as if I'm asking too much of him. Anyways, getting back to the subject, why was he being extra nice? calling me baby, honey, his love. Why engage in long conversation with me when he never wants to talk. Why give me extra attention?


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> Anyways, getting back to the subject, why was he being extra nice? calling me baby, honey, his love. Why engage in long conversation with me when he never wants to talk. Why give me extra attention?


Well, again this sounds familiar. We had slept on opposite sides of the bed (king size) most nights for years. After I discovered the affair, she started snuggling with me at night. I asked the same question. Why the new affection?

The answer was "You're being managed."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

My guess is he's being extra nice because of the guilt of what he's doing. You said yourself the day before he snuck off and was missing. A guilty conscience will make you pour on the sugary sweet sometimes. 

Again, you can either choose to turn a blind eye to the truth and pretend you are in CandyLand where you husband isn't having an affair and is being true to you or you can choose to deal with the reality of your situation.

Your choice.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

He worked 3rd shift last night. He should have been home from work around 6 to 6:30 am. It is now 9:16 a.m my time. I've called him several times. He is not answering his phone. I've called the work and no answer there. I try to rationalize his absence with reasonable possibilities such as his phone battery died but I wonder if I'm only trying to make myself feel better. The truth is so hard to face but the truth is that recently he has been having long periods of time where he is unaccountable. He won't answer his phone and when he does show up, his "reasons" don't add up. This is all so hard.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Ok, updated: I just spoke to him. He claims to have fallen asleep at his desk at work. Is this believable?


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

no, are you not wanting to believe what is obvious? take your blinders off, give him his walking papers, until the other woman is gone you haven't got a chance of fixing anything


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> Ok, updated: I just spoke to him. He claims to have fallen asleep at his desk at work. Is this believable?


No, it is not...especially in light of the many, many deceitful things he's done in the past. Stop burying your head in the sand and confront this lying POS once and for all. He's cheating. He has become complacent because you have accepted all of his past lies and he will continue to do whatever he wants as long as you don't confront him. Also, he seems to have the power in your relationship because he has the one car between you two and thus has all the freedom. Who's decision was it that he should have the car and you be without transportation? You work too...time to get a new car for you or he hands over the car to you and HE has to hitch a ride everywhere. He's using your lack of freedom to pull one over on you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Please re-read all the things I highlighted in your post above.

You are spinning your wheels.

He has no respect for you.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Myopia1964 said:


> No, it is not...especially in light of the many, many deceitful things he's done in the past. Stop burying your head in the sand and confront this lying POS once and for all. He's cheating. He has become complacent because you have accepted all of his past lies and he will continue to do whatever he wants as long as you don't confront him. Also, he seems to have the power in your relationship because he has the one car between you two and thus has all the freedom. Who's decision was it that he should have the car and you be without transportation? You work too...time to get a new car for you or he hands over the car to you and HE has to hitch a ride everywhere. He's using your lack of freedom to pull one over on you.



He gets the car because his work is an hours commute from our home. My job is only a 10 minute drive and I am able to ride with my sister. Our jobs are at different places but they are close to each other and our schedules are compatible so it works out. I would love to buy a new car but cannot afford it. (I am accepting good running car donations though :rofl 
I have decided to call a lawyer tomorrow to talk about my options. I think this is probably the hardest thing I have ever had to do. I wish I had a Staples easy button.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

if it.....

looks like a duck,

quacks like a duck,

tastes like a duck (a la'orange),

then its not an apple.......its a duck!

dont swallow the "turds" to know fer sure....yeeeech.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

tonight he confessed to having sex with someone......more details later. Just cant focus now.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

last night I caught him parked down our street with the woman he has been having an emotional affair with. I didnt catch them doing any hanky panky but he was with her in her car parked down the road. I asked what was he doing with her and he said she needed to talk to him about some problems with her boyfriend. I told him I didnt care. You were my husband and you had no business. He then proceeds to tell me that he's been unhappy and wants to leave. I ask him why and he says he dont know. He then begins confessing his sins to me. He even confessed to a one-night stand back in October that I had no idea about. All those times he has mysteriously vanished, he confessed to being with her. Well, we are talking and I am amazingly calm. I'm not yelling or throwing plates at his head. We are simply talking. He said he wants to see a therapist to help him figure why he cheats. He says he knows its wrong but he cant help himself. (I dont understand that.) I told him as his wife, I was devoted to him. I would stand by my vows for better or worse if he would go. I also told him that I would give him a divorce if that is what he wanted. We the agreed to at least stay in the same house and be a married couple for the kids until he could find a place to go. We even slept in the same bed last night holding hands. 
Then this morning I got up and was getting kids ready for school. I had laid in bed awake and thinking all night. Even though we had agreed the night before to stay together til he found a place to live, I realized that for the past 5 months he has pursued this other woman right in front of me and if we stayed living together, he would continue to pursue right in front of me. I knew I had seen enough. I couldn't continue another day of watching him run off to see this woman. I told him that since he would still have an hour before he had to leave for work and me and the kids would be leaving shortly, that I wanted him to take some clothes and not come back tonight. Then I looked at him and asked for a divorce. That was early this morning. It is now early evening. He just texted me to ask if he could sleep in the garage at home because he had nowhere else to go. I told him no. I didnt want him around at all. 
Oh and also, I emailed the other woman this morning. I was polite. I explained what my husband was doing. I explained his lies and the way he has been mysteriously disappearing. She wrote me back and she was nice. She said she was sorry for causing problems. She is in love with her boyfriend and theyve been having problems. My husband has been her shoulder to cry on. I wrote her again and said while it is nice to have a friend to be there for you, this friend is a married man who is keeping secrets from his wife about you. That is inappropriate. I asked her to end all contact with him. She wrote back again and once again said she was sorry for causing problems. But she never said she would end contact with my husband. 
I dont regret asking him for a divorce. In a funny strange way, I feel like this huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Dont get me wrong, I am completely devastated. My marriage has ended. But for 14 years I have lived with lies, cheating,betrayal and emotional abuse. I finally feel free of all that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BS about her having problems with her boyfriend.
Do you know the boyfriend? CONTACT HIM and tell him that his girlfriend is cheating on him with your hub and has been for awhile. No more contact with her, ok?

Tell him he can pack his bags and go if he "doesn't know what he wants/what he is going to do/won't cut it out."

Now the hard part Apple--you have to stick to your guns.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Jellybeans, I did tell him to leave. I told him I didnt want him around anymore. He even asked me to sleep in the garage because he had nowhere to go. I said no.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

To quote Gregory House; "Everybody Lies".


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

ughhh, hard today  I woke up all alone in our marital bed this morning. And I am having huge regrets over asking him for a divorce. I miss him so much.


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

Has he had any history of ea/pa's before? Yeah, when they stay on the computer while you're going to bed..that just smacks of something fishy going on. And saying he never got your phone call? Puleez!!


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

HappyAtLast said:


> Has he had any history of ea/pa's before? Yeah, when they stay on the computer while you're going to bed..that just smacks of something fishy going on. And saying he never got your phone call? Puleez!!


This is not the first time he has been unfaithful. He has done it before. he said he was sorry he hurt me. But it sounded more like a line than an actually apology.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

He's NOT sorry he did it, he's sorry he got caught... Your H will likely shift gears and go into damage control mode... He will likely invest all of his attention and a ton energy into controlling the damage... 

I suspect he will pull out all the tricks and every stop.. Up to you if you want to be "managed". 

You made the right decision asking him to leave, next test is having the resolve to stand by that decision.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You made the right decision asking him to leave, *next test is having the resolve to stand by that decision*.


Ding ding ding!


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I suppose I am on that emotional roller coaster ride of I love him, I hate him. One moment I find myself wanting him in my life so bad and the next moment I wish to throw plates at him. We have agreed to go to divorce therapy together. I hope that will help some. My next question now is, I have been thinking about writing him a very lengthy letter on how badly he has hurt me and reading it to him at our first session. Good idea? Bad idea?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> He's NOT sorry he did it, he's sorry he got caught... Your H will likely shift gears and go into damage control mode... He will likely invest all of his attention and a ton energy into controlling the damage...
> 
> I suspect he will pull out all the tricks and every stop.. Up to you if you want to be "managed".
> 
> You made the right decision asking him to leave, next test is having the resolve to stand by that decision.


How do I know if he doing damage control? What are the signs to look for? He came back to our house last night. He said it was his house too and he didnt have to leave. Legally, for now, he is correct. I do have an appointment to speak with a lawyer on Monday though.


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## anonymous1978 (Dec 27, 2010)

If he is still not being empathetic about your pain or honest and transparent with you about any and all indiscretions (which I am assuming he is not) then he has shown you that he is not invested in repairing your relationship or recommitted to your marriage. You need to take this as a sign that things will not improve.

It is *TOO EASY* for time to allow feelings to fade. These fading emotions will have an adverse effect on both of you.

1. YOU- You will forget the hurt and pain he caused you as you begin to feel more lonely than betrayed. You will begin to want him back. If he comes back, only then can you be reminded of the life of pain you experienced and it will begin a destructive cycle.

2. HIM- If he feels remorse and genuinely wants to heal you and your commitment to each other, he may begin the process of healing and all too quickly the two of you are back in a comfortable (but changed) relationship with each other. After some time, he will forget the intensity of pain and destruction his actions caused and convince himself that he can give into his urges again.

You will never fully trust him again. Do you want to settle for less than you deserve?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

^^^^^
Well said.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

anonymous1978 said:


> If he is still not being empathetic about your pain or honest and transparent with you about any and all indiscretions (which I am assuming he is not) then he has shown you that he is not invested in repairing your relationship or recommitted to your marriage. You need to take this as a sign that things will not improve.
> 
> It is *TOO EASY* for time to allow feelings to fade. These fading emotions will have an adverse effect on both of you.
> 
> ...


You are right. I have no idea why I hold hope for us still. He has confessed to some but I believe there is still more. I believe his EA is alot deeper than he is admitting. He has shown no true regret or remorse over anything. I hope someday karma bites him in the ass really hard.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I think writing the letter would be moot.
He already knows what he is doing is wrong, he's been unfaithful in the past, and you bringing up every wrong thing he's done isn't going to change anything.
You've already told him you won't live like this and you've made it clear you're not going to tolerate it.
Nothing more to say.
If he wants to be with OW, let him go. He doesn't deserve your love if he can't commit to you and cut the affair off.


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## anonymous1978 (Dec 27, 2010)

If he treats your spoken words with little respect, you can imagine that he is not going to take a written letter much more seriously.

You wrote:

"This is not the first time he has been unfaithful. He has done it before. he said he was sorry he hurt me. But it sounded more like a line than an actually apology."

you need to remember the pain, or the loneliness will win...and then there will be more pain.

His words mean NOTHING if he shows you with his actions that he is not committed and not interested in change.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Something was revealed to me today that has me very scared. I believe that my husband may be a sociopath Profile of the Sociopath 
has anyone else been involved with someone who was a sociopath? looking for any advice on this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yes. If he is, you need to get out fast.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

This was only brought to my revelation today but I have spent much of the day researching sociopaths and their behavior. With my husband's several affairs and lack of guilt, (and other behaviors) I believe he fits the profile of a sociopath.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Or he could be a narcissist...


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Apple - I posted that link originally on another thread. I'd also posted that I noticed that people in the midst of affairs often exhibit sociopath-like behaviours. 

I'd caution you that while you are expereincing the intense emotions you are going through right now it's hard to be objective. I know I went through months, possibly years, trying to "diagnose" my wife, because I wanted her actions to make sense. But it's a slippery slope.

He could be narcissistic, he could be addicted to the high of romance, he could just have weak boundaries, he could have deep seated insecurities that play out through cheating, he could be a sex addict, he could be passive-agressive, he could be lots of things. The point is neither you or any of us are qualified to diagnose him, and even if you get that diagnosis, it doesnt change anything.

Try to hold on to the idea that you are not inadequate and reason for his cheating. He owns that. You didn't deserve it and whatever failing you had as a wife did not cause him to cheat. That's the important thing to accept.

He's damaged in some, unknown way. And he hasn't hit rock bottom, so he's not motivated enough to figure himself out.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> Apple - I posted that link originally on another thread. I'd also posted that I noticed that people in the midst of affairs often exhibit sociopath-like behaviours.
> 
> I'd caution you that while you are expereincing the intense emotions you are going through right now it's hard to be objective. I know I went through months, possibly years, trying to "diagnose" my wife, because I wanted her actions to make sense. But it's a slippery slope.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. And no, he has not been diagnosed as sociopath and strangely, it was his own mother (who is a RN) who suggested this possibility to me. But it does make sense. Then again, I could desparetly be searching for some reason as to why he did what he did. He's starting to do the "it's all my your fault" stuff with me. I've asked him to move out but he won't. He says he is working on saving up money to move out but until then I have to be patient with him and I have to be civil with him. (All this while he runs around with his "friend" right in front of me) He told me that I'd better be cooperative with him to make things easy for me because if I'm not, he will get evil with me. And yes, I am keeping record of everything he says and does and will give it to my lawyer.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Doubtful he is a sociopath.

Do any of these things ring true about your Husband?

amoral/conscienceless
authoritarian
cares only about appearances
contemptuous
critical of others
cruel
disappointing gift-giver
don't recognize his own feelings
envious and competitive
feel entitled
flirtatious or seductive
grandiose
hard to have a good time with
hate to live alone
hyper-sensitive to criticism
impulsive
lack sense of humor
naive
passive
pessimistic
religious
secretive
self-contradictory
stingy
strange work habits
unusual eating habits
weird sense of time


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> He told me that I'd better be cooperative with him to make things easy for me because if I'm not, he will get evil with me. And yes, I am keeping record of everything he says and does and will give it to my lawyer.


Laughable. This is coming from the man who has had more than one affair on you and is actively involved in one with OW posting pics of them w/ hearts on her FB. 

Don't even listen to him, girl.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Doubtful he is a sociopath.
> 
> Do any of these things ring true about your Husband?
> 
> ...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

AppleDucklings said:


> cares only about appearances NO
> grandiose NO
> hard to have a good time with NO
> hyper-sensitive to criticism NO
> ...


So he hits 19 of 27. (70%)

Just double check the No's real quick... By definition. 

"cares about appearances" - So he doesn't overly care about what he "appears" to be or what his life "appears to be" to other people. ?

"grandiose"- So his thoughts and fantasies about himself, what he is and what he wants to be viewed as aren't overly grand in scale ? Doesn't view himself as a certain "superhero or movie character" or overly "brilliant, beautiful, superior, powerful, etc"...?

"hard to have a good time with" - WOuldn't say he exists primarily in a range from "blah, mediocre, fake, normal" through "angry, irritated, impatient" ? He doesn't seem to have any issue with genuinely enjoying simple pleasures, (beyond basic bodily needs (sex, food, etc)), Doesn't seem happiest when your catering to his every whim, tiniest impulses, or bending to his views on every little thing.? 

"lack sense of humor" - That one's tricky. Because "sarcasm" doesn't count. If the entire range of his "sense of humor" falls into the sarcasm (they think it's being "witty") area... FAIL. So he seems to "get" jokes, and enjoys jokes (that arent at someone else's expense)?

"hyper-sensitive to criticism" - He's has no problem with personal criticism.?

"naive" - So he doesn't get taken advantage of or is not overly vulnerable. Not protective of this weaknes by exhibiting excessive paranoia, cynicism, having sneakiness, evasiveness, or prevarications.? 
(lol, I just realized you can't answer no to that one, if hes having an affair or a bunch of them... hes definetley sneaky, evasive, etc..) 

"passive" - He doesn't have any problem taking initiative. Doesn't complain about things yet not take action?

"implusive" - His behavior & some of his actions don't seem oddly stupid for a person as intelligent as he is?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

SOOOOOO confused now! Over the course of the past 6 months, my husband has been in contact with this woman secretly behind my back. That is until 5 days ago when he confessed to being unfaithful. He admitted he had sex with someone in late 2010. But he has been running around with a different woman. he has always claimed the entire time they are just friends but he has never allowed me to be part of the friendship. He has lied about his where abouts to be with her, he has been secretive about all of it. Well now that its been brought out in the open, he has now been openly seeing her in front of me. Tonight I just watched as she pulled up to my house and then drove off with my husband. I decided to google her name. I found her twitter account and it is full of tweets going back a year all about her being in love with someone NOT my husband. Her most recent post was from yesterday with a picture of her brand new tattoo that was of his initials.And you can tell from the redness on her skin that it is indeed a brand new tattoo. Color me confused. IF my husband has been telling me the truth about her and him being only friends, then why all the secretiveness about it? Why run around behind my back?


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

This may help:

When your husband or wife is having an affair.

People in addictive circumstances do all sorts of inexplicable things.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

tonight my husband gave me a hug. Not a "buddy" hug but a long, long embrace of a hug. It felt so good being in his arms even though I hate him so much. I asked him if he really wanted a divorce. He said he didn't know. He said he hated that he had hurt me (again) and that he couldn't trust himself not to do it again. (I guess that should tell me something) Still, I try to rationalize ways on how he could seek treatment to get the root of his wrongs. But I know there is no magic pills that prevents cheating. If there was, it would be a hot seller. I love him so much. I hate what he did to me though. It's the cruelest kind of irony when you love someone who would hurt you so much.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> Tonight I just watched as she pulled up to my house and then drove off with my husband.


W.T.F. Seriously.
I thought you kicked him out? She and he both have got some nerve. Expose the affair. Tell him to leave. He is still cake-eating in the most horrible way ever. 
It sounds like he cheated with several women. Get tested for STDs stat, Apple. 
You are much better off w/o him. Have you gotten a lawyer yet re: divorce?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> W.T.F. Seriously.
> I thought you kicked him out? She and he both have got some nerve. Expose the affair. Tell him to leave. He is still cake-eating in the most horrible way ever.
> It sounds like he cheated with several women. Get tested for STDs stat, Apple.
> You are much better off w/o him. Have you gotten a lawyer yet re: divorce?


I had kicked him out. He was gone for night and came back claiming that this was his house too. Right now, I know of no legal way to remove him from the house. I have exposed the affair. I have told his family and I have asked the other woman to leave my husband alone (that did no good though) He slept in my bed with me last.The first time in a week. He wrapped his arms around me and held me all night. He gave me a kiss before leaving for work this morning. That was about 8am this morning. I have not heard from him since then. It's been 12 hours now.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

sorry to leave you hanging after asking those questions...

When you said what you did I started doing research on sociopaths... I didn't think that was likely. One of the other possibilties was mentioned (by JBean & SS) and I figured it was much more likely as many of the characteristics/traits are the same...

The questions I asked you were common traits of a person with Narcissistic personailty disorder.

So what is the difference between a narcissist and a sociopath? They are _very similar._ Generally speaking narcissists are less impulsive and higher functioning than are sociopaths. 

here and here are the differences.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I am looking at lawyers but in the meantime, does anyone know of any legal means to have the husband removed from the house? He refuses to leave on his own. This is a rental house but he claims it as "his first" because we rent from a personal friend of his. I have told his friend about our situation but he doesn't know what he can do legally since we do pay our rent. My husband is being very mentally and emotionally abusive towards me by running around with his "friend" right in front of me and telling me "to deal with it" Has anyone been through this? Where you rented your house and had to have your spouse legally removed?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Don't really think you can have him legally removed. 

Squeaky nut gets the grease. Pressure, pressure, pressure. Make this as uncomfortable as possible on him. Believe me he is under a ton of internal pressure as it is, he knows what he is doing is wrong. The more pressure he gets coming at him from all directions, the quicker he cracks. Scream from the rooftops, make his life miserable. Anything you can do to upset the stabilty of his life, his routines and shake this reality he's in the better...

If he is indeed a narcissist or at least has strong narcisstic tendencies then that's your pressure point.... That should make things easier, you know his fundamental flaw. Find ways and exploit that. Research, research, research. If I recall, your trained for that... Maybe you have these skills for a reason... and this is it.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Yes, the flaunting the affair in your face is horrible. I have been through that. I don't know on the renting thing. We own our home (or the bank does) and we are both on the deed. The only possibilities I found to get her out of the house were divorce, legal separation (which is as difficult and expensive as divorce from my research), or selling the house.

Who pays the rent? I suppose his friend wouldn't let him stay there long if he wasn't getting paid. Getting kicked out of a rental wouldn't have nearly the implications of a foreclosure. 

I'm sorry you are going through this. It's bad enough knowing of an affair. It's another thing entirely when they continuously rub your face in it.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I would leave myself but I have nowhere else to go nor do I have the money to move nor do I have any family who has the space to accommodate me and my 3 children. I found a lawyer and made an appt. on friday. Hopefully because of the emotionally abuse he causes me, I can get a court order for him to leave.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Call a lawyer and explain the situation, alot of the lawyers up here I can just call and ask questions of them. If I were closer girl, you'd be more than welcome here, I know we are both animal lovers


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I did some online research and found that I could possibly petition the courts to give me exclusive rights to the house, which would mean he would have to move out and he could no longer legally stay there. I made an appointment with a lawyer for Friday. We'll see how things go from there. 
Oh, and I got a call from him this afternoon that he brought himself a new car. He did not consult me on this at all. I hope I can keep my hands free on this new car thing completely. the dumb a$$ can't afford new car paymemnts once I start getting support from him. Ive no idea what he was thinking!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

He obviously wasn't thinking, and if your name isn't on the loan, I think you are ok.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Nope, my name aint on it at all


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

This is the time of day that is the hardest for me. Night time. He is here, and gathering up clothes so he can go stay the night with "just a friend"  Why does he torment me like this? Is he that evil he makes me watch him go? I've asked him to just move out. He refuses to leave the house though. The emotional distress this causes me is like a 1,000 hot knives to my gut. I don't know why I deserve this pain.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Oh yeah, I am working on the 180. Man, it was hard tonight. He came to talk to me about the house before taking off to see "just a friend". It was so hard to listen to him discuss our living arrangements and listen to him make plans for us to be apart. It was hard not to be begging and pleading but I did it. I stayed composed and even laughed at a text message a friend sent me while he was talking to me. My heart still aches for him so bad but a little voice tells me not to take him back until he has been broken. Because it is only after he has been broken that he will change. I gotta listen to my intuition there.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Honey you don't have to sit there and take this.. If i were you i would pack up and move.. i know its easier said than done, but I did it. I decided that my emotional wellbeing, were more important than the house or any thing else of monetary value. I didn't have the money out there, but there are ways for you to get help now! I went to Social services right away and filed for child support.. got on food benefits and medicare (which i am no longer on) and because my situation was considered emotional and physcial abuse, i could have stayed at an abuse shelter, but I didn't want to subject my kids to that or take the bed of someone who needed it more. I did not feel my life were in danger from him, so I went to the state and they helped me find an apartment and helped pay for the first months rent and deposit.

there are ways.. if you are this miserable you don't have to put up with it! 

Also I joined a support group in my city. It's a womens support group for those going through a divorce or seperation, or other marital issues. Look for something in your area, its nice to have support right there with you. And I know it helped me to find friends that had not been friends with my H and I through our relationship. You need your OWN friends, and your OWN support system.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Thank you. I have been thinking about moving out myself. I see it as him winning though if I leave and I hate that thought but perhaps I need to swallow my pride a bit here and just go. I know I have friends and family who would help me move.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

You know I've got your back girl, I just wish you were closer. You know me and my friend B (female) one of my anchors in the storm here, have joked about if it doesn't work out, she brings her kids out, we just are roommates and raise our kids together, you are more than welcome to join us!!! 3 cool ladies, and 6-8 kids sounds like a heckuva lot of fun. I mean seriously just roommates, she's got a long term boyfriend she doesn't live with lol. Me? I'd be perfectly happy being celibate.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I miss him so much right now. This is so hard. I'm sitting here crying. I want my husband so bad right now. I want to hear him say "I love you" I want to hear him say he's sorry. I want him to be remorseful. I dont want a divorce. Omg, this is all so hard. Why did he have to tear our family apart?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

My heart aches for you Apples. I wish I had something constructive to tell you. I know full well how hard it is to be strong but, you can do it. I have faith in you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Apples, yesterday was a bad afternoon for me, I get the pain, all I wanted for him to do was to come home from work, put his arms around me, and choose me and his family, nope, he got home sat for awhile and went straight to that game, got up at 11 to see when he was coming to bed, well he wasn't on facebook, I knew what he was doing,(watching a bit of porn, which I really don't have a problem with, he rarely does, never been an issue), he was convinced I was sneaking up on him to catch him doing something wrong, ummmm, no, but do you think he tried to get with me? no, went straight to sleep, and I laid there just hurting. I totally get your pain girl. I made the mistake of watching this on youtube a few minutes ago

YouTube - Alan Jackson - Remember When

surprisingly did the 180 on him, he seems bewildered, gonna try hard to do it again tomorrow, he agreed to go to my IC with me tomorrow, luckily my counseler is cool, all I gotta do is call and let her know he's coming before we show up.


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