# Wife's depression has taken a toll.



## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

*Wife's depression has taken its toll.*

My wife and I have been together for 14 years and together we have an 11 year old son. She was diagnosed with depression about 7 years ago. Through counseling she has been able to identify the root of her depression that comes from her early childhood years due to a broken home plus the death of her parents when she was 22. She was at constant odds with her siblings which they don't speak anymore and struggles to have friends because of trust issues. She has basically pushed everyone away and now it's my turn. At times she speaks in suicide talk and says she wishes she was never alive and says she wishes there was an easy way out. When my family is around she gets along with them very well but it's through the Mists of her depression that she reflects and becomes jealous envious and resentful towards me. And becomes enraged possibly feeling trapped.


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## Bonkers (Nov 26, 2017)

Maybe she needs meds.

STRONG meds.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Some people never recover from depression, and that's a fact. I hope you are in counseling yourself. It will help you to not only manage your expectations but also keep you from losing yourself to her illness. Strong boundaries are critical.

Good luck.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

LS, perhaps your W only suffers from depression as you were told. There is a chance, however, that she also suffers from strong traits of a PD (personality disorder) arising from the trauma she experienced in early childhood. I mention this for two reasons. One is that you mention several behaviors -- i.e., "enraged," suicide threats, "pushing everyone away," and "feeling trapped" -- that are a few of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline PD). 

The other reason I mention this possibility is that, if your W actually does exhibit strong BPD traits, therapists likely would not tell her about it. They generally are loath to tell a BPDer (person with strong traits) the name of this disorder because it often is not in their best interests to be told. They therefore tend to list only the co-occurring clinical disorders (e.g., depression or anxiety) as the diagnosis.

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you. 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute a full-blown personality disorder. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation -- and may help you decide whether to seek a candid second opinion (all by yourself) from a psychologist who is not treating your W. That way, you will be obtaining information from a professional who is ethically bound to protect your best interests, not those of your W. Take care, LS.


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

Bonkers said:


> Maybe she needs meds.
> 
> STRONG meds.


I agree.


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

zookeeper said:


> Some people never recover from depression, and that's a fact. I hope you are in counseling yourself. It will help you to not only manage your expectations but also keep you from losing yourself to her illness. Strong boundaries are critical.
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you!


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

Uptown said:


> LS, perhaps your W only suffers from depression as you were told. There is a chance, however, that she also suffers from strong traits of a PD (personality disorder) arising from the trauma she experienced in early childhood. I mention this for two reasons. One is that you mention several behaviors -- i.e., "enraged," suicide threats, "pushing everyone away," and "feeling trapped" -- that are a few of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline PD).
> 
> The other reason I mention this possibility is that, if your W actually does exhibit strong BPD traits, therapists likely would not tell her about it. They generally are loath to tell a BPDer (person with strong traits) the name of this disorder because it often is not in their best interests to be told. They therefore tend to list only the co-occurring clinical disorders (e.g., depression or anxiety) as the diagnosis.
> 
> ...


Thank you I will look in to this!


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

Lost sooul said:


> My wife and I have been together for 14 years and together we have an 11 year old son. She was diagnosed with depression about 7 years ago. Through counseling she has been able to identify the root of her depression that comes from her early childhood years due to a broken home plus the death of her parents when she was 22. She was at constant odds with her siblings which they don't speak anymore and struggles to have friends because of trust issues. She has basically pushed everyone away and now it's my turn. At times she speaks in suicide talk and says she wishes she was never alive and says she wishes there was an easy way out. When my family is around she gets along with them very well but it's through the Mists of her depression that she reflects and becomes jealous envious and resentful towards me. And becomes enraged possibly feeling trapped.


You guys have given me some great insight on what to look forward to I will strongly take your guyses advice with all that said I'm just really afraid that if the point comes and she leaves she has no-one or no place to go. She literally has nothing to her name. It would hardly be able to support herself.

Thank you all.....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Lost sooul I have merged your other thread with this one because having two threads started with the same post is confusing.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

*Re: Wife's depression has taken its toll.*



Lost sooul said:


> Through counseling she has been able to identify the root of her depression that comes from her early childhood years due to a broken home plus the death of her parents when she was 22.


She lost BOTH her parents at the age of 22?

How did they die?


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

Uptown said:


> LS, perhaps your W only suffers from depression as you were told. There is a chance, however, that she also suffers from strong traits of a PD (personality disorder) arising from the trauma she experienced in early childhood. I mention this for two reasons. One is that you mention several behaviors -- i.e., "enraged," suicide threats, "pushing everyone away," and "feeling trapped" -- that are a few of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline PD).
> 
> The other reason I mention this possibility is that, if your W actually does exhibit strong BPD traits, therapists likely would not tell her about it. They generally are loath to tell a BPDer (person with strong traits) the name of this disorder because it often is not in their best interests to be told. They therefore tend to list only the co-occurring clinical disorders (e.g., depression or anxiety) as the diagnosis.
> 
> ...


Yes!! There are quite a few....


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

*Re: Wife's depression has taken its toll.*



sandcastle said:


> She lost BOTH her parents at the age of 22?
> 
> How did they die?


Your wife at the age of 22 " lost both her parents"

How? How did both her parents die?

GIANT TRAUMA FOR ANYONE- let alone a 22 year old.


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

sandcastle said:


> sandcastle said:
> 
> 
> > She lost BOTH her parents at the age of 22?
> ...


She was the sole care Provider for her mother who died from a terminal illness cause by a blood transfusion. Her father died of a heart attack a month before her mom.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Lost sooul said:


> She was the sole care Provider for her mother who died from a terminal illness cause by a blood transfusion. Her father died of a heart attack a month before her mom.


At 22.

Got empathy?

Do you actually know what this COULD POSSIBLY FEEL LIKE?


Nope- BPD. That explains it.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Uptown said:


> LS, perhaps your W only suffers from depression as you were told. There is a chance, however, that she also suffers from strong traits of a PD (personality disorder) arising from the trauma she experienced in early childhood. I mention this for two reasons. One is that you mention several behaviors -- i.e., "enraged," suicide threats, "pushing everyone away," and "feeling trapped" -- that are a few of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline PD).
> 
> The other reason I mention this possibility is that, if your W actually does exhibit strong BPD traits, therapists likely would not tell her about it. They generally are loath to tell a BPDer (person with strong traits) the name of this disorder because it often is not in their best interests to be told. They therefore tend to list only the co-occurring clinical disorders (e.g., depression or anxiety) as the diagnosis.
> 
> ...



Uptown-

Unless the patient is actually diagnosed by a few of the foremost experts in the field of BPD-
AND they are not many-
THEY ACTUALLY have to be diagnosed as BPD- to be a BPD-
Because as you have stated- your list of symptoms are on a spectrum and YOU probably have a host of them to a degree.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

*Re: Wife's depression has taken its toll.*



Lost sooul said:


> My wife and I have been together for 14 years and together we have an 11 year old son. She was diagnosed with depression about 7 years ago. Through counseling she has been able to identify the root of her depression that comes from her early childhood years due to a broken home plus the death of her parents when she was 22. She was at constant odds with her siblings which they don't speak anymore and struggles to have friends because of trust issues. She has basically pushed everyone away and now it's my turn. At times she speaks in suicide talk and says she wishes she was never alive and says she wishes there was an easy way out. When my family is around she gets along with them very well but it's through the Mists of her depression that she reflects and becomes jealous envious and resentful towards me. And becomes enraged possibly feeling trapped.



So - YOU are just bumpin along in life being the best spouse ever and your wife is what?

Jealous, , envious and resentful towards you and then
Enraged possibly feeling trapped.

Odd choice of words there.

Why in the world did you marry this hot mess in a dress?


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

sandcastle said:


> Lost sooul said:
> 
> 
> > She was the sole care Provider for her mother who died from a terminal illness cause by a blood transfusion. Her father died of a heart attack a month before her mom.
> ...


No I don't know what that feels like.... But i try to understand and she hates me for now knowing. But I do my best to motivate and appreciate her but she doesnt feel good enough. when we have a couples disagreeance at times it turns immediately. I could never draw the line. I feel like I deserve a voice as well but her condition doesn't allow me to be sturn or draw a line. All I want to do is help and make her feel better. We still love each other. She considers me her Rock and her balance. When she's going through it she isolates and does not want to be touched. 

I also think about my son and how this can affect him as well. I feel as if I get ripped apart and feel helpless myself trying to keep it all in order.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

So what EXACTLY is your list of complaints?

If she can't get out of bed and the handle of JD and Xanax is her bed partner than you need to get her into a bonafide facility that deals with co- morbid conditions.

Be part of your family solution because YOU put a ring on it and pro created.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Lost sooul said:


> No I don't know what that feels like.... When she's going through it she isolates and does not want to be touched.


Oh! She does not want to be touched!

Is this about you not getting sex?

Let us cut to the chase.


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

sandcastle said:


> So what EXACTLY is your list of complaints?
> 
> If she can't get out of bed and the handle of JD and Xanax is her bed partner than you need to get her into a bonafide facility that deals with co- morbid conditions.
> 
> Be part of your family solution because YOU put a ring on it and pro created.


Well she's not taking JD or Xanax. 
In fact a high dose of perceived drugs makes her worse! She opted out of taking prescribed drugs from her doctor because she does believe in medications and being a pill poper. I am FULLY committed in making things work out for my family. Thank you for your advise.


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

sandcastle said:


> Lost sooul said:
> 
> 
> > No I don't know what that feels like.... When she's going through it she isolates and does not want to be touched.
> ...


No it's about showing her comfort rubbing her shoulders soothing her letting her know I care......please don't try to single me out because I am a faithful and respectful husband. Do not try to twist by words.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Lost sooul said:


> No it's about showing her comfort rubbing her shoulders soothing her letting her know I care......please don't try to single me out because I am a faithful and respectable husband. Do not try to twist by words.


So shoulders are off limits which would probably mean you two are not doing missionary or oral or fantasy or BDsM or pegging or a whole host of sexual manuever's let alone a shoulder rub.


Just trying to figure out exactly why you are here and what you whining about.

Her parents died within 4 weeks of each other when she was 22- she is depressed( duh) , not on drugs or booze and you can't rub her shoulders , let alone have sex with her.


Am I close? I feel like I'm playing the Hot- Cold game.

Getting warmer- getting colder.


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

sandcastle said:


> Lost sooul said:
> 
> 
> > My wife and I have been together for 14 years and together we have an 11 year old son. She was diagnosed with depression about 7 years ago. Through counseling she has been able to identify the root of her depression that comes from her early childhood years due to a broken home plus the death of her parents when she was 22. She was at constant odds with her siblings which they don't speak anymore and struggles to have friends because of trust issues. She has basically pushed everyone away and now it's my turn. At times she speaks in suicide talk and says she wishes she was never alive and says she wishes there was an easy way out. When my family is around she gets along with them very well but it's through the Mists of her depression that she reflects and becomes jealous envious and resentful towards me. And becomes enraged possibly feeling trapped.
> ...


Why would they be an odd choice of words I'm simply describing what she explains to me. 

Oh and why did I marry this hot mess no one goes into a relationship fully knowing what a person's struggles are in life until later. I don't give up that easy I'll fight through it before i quit. Everyone deseves a chance. you might not think that way or possibly afraid of such commitment. Maybe you should take a had look in the mirror sounds like you might have some underline issues yourself.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

sandcastle said:


> Uptown - Unless the patient is actually diagnosed by a few of the foremost experts in the field of BPD....AND they are not many


Sandcastle, there is no "foremost expert" on the planet who can perform a true diagnosis of BPD. Doing so requires that the cause of the BPD symptoms be identified, a feat that scientists are still unable to achieve. Until that happens, psychologists will continue to use the term "diagnosis" in a very specialized sense -- to mean that the symptoms are so severe that the patient must have some type of (unidentified) disorder, whatever it is. 

Because the nine BPD symptoms are simply ego defenses that we all have to some degree, drawing the diagnostic threshold for "severe symptoms" on the BPD spectrum is a purely arbitrary process. It was drawn at a very high level primarily due to pressure from insurance companies (who don't want to pay for treatment), the courts (who don't want to institutionalize people), and psychologists (who don't want a patient to obtain three different "diagnoses" from three different psychologists, as was common prior to 1980).



> THEY ACTUALLY have to be diagnosed as BPD- to be a BPD.


No, BPD is not something a person can "be" or "not be." It is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether LS's wife exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. We are all BPDers to some degree.

At issue, then, is whether LS's wife exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe LS can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if he takes a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as suicide threats, verbal abuse, and irrational jealousy.



> Because as you have stated- your list of symptoms are on a spectrum and YOU probably have a host of them to a degree.


A "host of them"? No, I exhibit all of them -- to some degree. We all do. Moreover, at some points in our lives, we all are high on the BPD behavior spectrum while we experience a temporary flareup of those behaviors.


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## Lost sooul (Nov 24, 2012)

sandcastle said:


> Lost sooul said:
> 
> 
> > No it's about showing her comfort rubbing her shoulders soothing her letting her know I care......please don't try to single me out because I am a faithful and respectable husband. Do not try to twist by words.
> ...


If it turns you on playing the cat mouse game go for it - Sex is definitely not a issue we get ours you my friend needs to get some if all you can do is try to give advice to insult. Let me ask you...why are you here? Why are you so drawn to my post? Is it because I'm giving you a bit of attention?


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Sandcastle, there is no "foremost expert" on the planet who can perform a true diagnosis of BPD. Doing so requires that the cause of the BPD symptoms be identified, a feat that scientists are still unable to achieve. Until that happens, psychologists will continue to use the term "diagnosis" in a very specialized sense -- to mean that the symptoms are so severe that the patient must have some type of (unidentified) disorder, whatever it is.
> 
> Because the nine BPD symptoms are simply ego defenses that we all have to some degree, drawing the diagnostic threshold for "severe symptoms" on the BPD spectrum is a purely arbitrary process. It was drawn at a very high level primarily due to pressure from insurance companies (who don't want to pay for treatment), the courts (who don't want to institutionalize people), and psychologists (who don't want a patient to obtain three different "diagnoses" from three different psychologists, as was common prior to 1980).
> 
> ...



The Court Requires professional diagnoses.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

sandcastle said:


> The Court Requires professional diagnoses.


Sandcastle, why are you talking about diagnoses? In my first post, I told LS that he would be able to spot warning signs but NOT perform a diagnosis. For example, learning how to spot the warning signs for a heart attack or stroke has nothing to do with diagnosis. LS therefore is able to spot the red flags without doing a diagnosis.

Similarly, before LS graduated high school, he already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. He could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. He could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And he could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Likewise, LS will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur. There is a world of difference between spotting warning signs and making a diagnosis.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Sandcastle, there is no "foremost expert" on the planet who can perform a true diagnosis of BPD. Doing so requires that the cause of the BPD symptoms be identified, a feat that scientists are still unable to achieve. Until that happens, psychologists will continue to use the term "diagnosis" in a very specialized sense -- to mean that the symptoms are so severe that the patient must have some type of (unidentified) disorder, whatever it is.
> 
> Because the nine BPD symptoms are simply ego defenses that we all have to some degree, drawing the diagnostic threshold for "severe symptoms" on the BPD spectrum is a purely arbitrary process. It was drawn at a very high level primarily due to pressure from insurance companies (who don't want to pay for treatment), the courts (who don't want to institutionalize people), and psychologists (who don't want a patient to obtain three different "diagnoses" from three different psychologists, as was common prior to 1980).
> 
> ...


Marsha Linehan- U of Washington.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

sandcastle said:


> Marsha Linehan- U of Washington.


Bright lady. Your point being?


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

That there ARE experts who diagnose BPD.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

sandcastle said:


> That there ARE experts who diagnose BPD.


Yes, of course, Sandcastle. As I stated above, _"psychologists will continue to use the term 'diagnosis' in a very specialized sense -- to mean that the symptoms are so severe that the patient must have some type of (unidentified) disorder, whatever it is."_ If you're interested, I explain why this use of the term "diagnosis" in psychology is very different from the way that term generally is used in every field of the medical sciences -- and very different from the way it is used throughout society. This explanation is provided in my post at Pull Rightosis.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

*Re: Wife's depression has taken its toll.*



Lost sooul said:


> She was diagnosed with depression about 7 years ago. Through counseling she has been able to identify the root of her depression that comes from her early childhood years due to a broken home plus the death of her parents when she was 22.


That isn't the root of her depression at all. That's just some bad stuff that happened to her, but no worse than everyone else deals with. The root of your wife's depression is anger and hatred she turns inward and directs at herself.

Everyone has an imperfect past, the only way to overcome it is to let it go put the work in change the way your mind works against you. I dealt with on and off depression for many, many years, it's called Dysthymia and SAD (no pun intended) would make it worse in the winter. I almost found comfort in my persistent low-grade depression so I never sought help, relished being miserable. I did eventually fall into a deep depression like I never experienced before and it was a really dark place, darker than I could ever explain, devoid of all hope, it was scary. That's when I called a doctor and got a very good therapist who turned me on to some little tricks like journaling negative thoughts my mind would assail with constantly and actually talk them back with rational responses, mindfulness, meditation, positive self-talk. Seemed hokey, but it worked, and worked quickly.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What is she doing to get better?


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

Uptown said:


> Sandcastle, there is no "foremost expert" on the planet who can perform a true diagnosis of BPD. Doing so requires that the cause of the BPD symptoms be identified, a feat that scientists are still unable to achieve. Until that happens, psychologists will continue to use the term "diagnosis" in a very specialized sense -- to mean that the symptoms are so severe that the patient must have some type of (unidentified) disorder, whatever it is.
> 
> Because the nine BPD symptoms are simply ego defenses that we all have to some degree, drawing the diagnostic threshold for "severe symptoms" on the BPD spectrum is a purely arbitrary process. It was drawn at a very high level primarily due to pressure from insurance companies (who don't want to pay for treatment), the courts (who don't want to institutionalize people), and psychologists (who don't want a patient to obtain three different "diagnoses" from three different psychologists, as was common prior to 1980).
> 
> ...




And this is exactly why no one should be attempting to diagnose a complex personality disorder over the internet. This woman underwent a HUGE trauma and it seems she hasn’t received any treatment for it; of course she is exhibiting some extremely maladaptive behaviors.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

Lost sooul, my W works in a psychiatric wing of a hospital. People come in because they do not take their prescribed meds or the meds are not the right one for that individual. The goal at the hospital is to find the right medication and the right strength. I hope your W tries some meds UNTIL one works for her.

I was on anti depressants-anti anxiety meds for a short while, along with some counseling. Three things worked for me. A low dose of the med that worked for me, writing down 10 small things I was great-full for, every day, and exercise that got my heart rate up to 80% of my maximum for my age. I do yoga (some hot yoga) work out on the fitness machines, and ride my bicycle several times a week. 

I quit the low dose meds several months ago because the exercise works better than the meds. If I go several days without doing some of the exercises and working on my great-full list, I feel like I am going down hill.

Sometimes putting down lines in the sand (having personal boundaries) and enforcing (nothing to do with being mean-just not being a push over) your limits, makes the other person (W in this case) do more for herself. Doing too much (if that is the case) other people isn't helpful in the long run. I had to put limits-boundaries concerning my W and all of her complaints-issues. Yes it is very difficult to do and it took several years for me to enforce what I thought was her issue and my issue.

This is what I did and what worked for me. In your situation maybe some or none of what worked for me will work for you.

I was just trying to help and as usual your mileage will vary.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

veganmermaid said:


> And this is exactly why no one should be attempting to diagnose a complex personality disorder over the internet.


True, Vegan. But nobody on this thread is trying to do a diagnosis, as I tried to explain in note 27 above. If you're interested, I provide a more detailed explanation in my post at Diagnosis vs Symptoms.


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