# What to do



## abc1234567 (4 mo ago)

Wife (38) and I (38) have been married 8 years. Two kids - 5 and 4 y/o. During our entire relationship, I have never had a reason to suspect anything between her and someone else. In July, however, she went to a one-night camp reunion where she reconnected with the guy she lost her virginity to 14 years ago. When she came home, it was the first time I ever felt something was off. I couldn't put my finger on why though. It was just a feeling. So for the first time in our entire relationship, I looked at her text messages.

Low and behold, all those feelings from back in the day between them came flooding back. It was clear from the texts there had been a strong physical attraction. It was not clear if anything physical happened. Ultimately I confronted my wife about my "feeling" without disclosing that I had seen the text messages. She was kind of honest about it and swore nothing physical happened. I believe her. She also said it is a unique relationship and that he is just someone who will always be special to her.

Since then, they have continued to text. A lot of it is just talking about their day-to-day lives, but a lot of it is also explicitly about how much they want each other. At some point my wife asked me if I wanted her to stop texting him, and I said no. That it was not my place to tell her who she can and cannot talk to. I also hoped she would reach the conclusion on her own that our marriage and life we have built is not worth blowing up.

Fast forward to this weekend. She planned a weekend away with her parents and brother to a place that happens to be driving distance from the guy. Since I've been continuing to read their texts I knew she was trying to meet up with him. She was actually honest about this, but kept saying I have nothing to worry about. It's just a special relationship they have. So I've been flying solo for four days with the kids while she is on vacation. They did in fact meetup. I'm 90% sure there was a physical interaction. I'm 100% sure there is an emotional one. When I talked to her on the phone she could sense I was frustrated. She asked if it was because of him, and I said yes. She said they met for a very short drink and that was it. Just trust her.

Meanwhile, I've been reading their text thread the whole weekend so I know what is really going on. I just don't know what to do about this. I don't know how to tell her I know more than she realizes without revealing I've been reading the texts for 2 months. I'm afraid if we go there my marriage and life will be blown up. I'm not prepared to do that to my kids.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

Copy all of the text messages and keep them in a safe place . Contact this other man and confront him. Don't tell your wife , he will do that for you. When she comes to you, and she will , lay it on the line that you refuse to share her with someone else. Tell her in no uncertain terms that either ALL communication stops with this other man or that she has made the choice to end the marriage , and F%#k up her kids lives...

Her seeing this man was a DATE. Don't think it was anything else. You have the text messages between them. Don't be naive. Put your foot down now. It mat already be too late. 

See attorney and discuss your options . 

I wish you luck ,Jimi


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Your first actions by not shutting the texting down was weak and to your wife's mind your blessing for her to proceed to a physical affair.

Well, the marriage is toast, it will never be the same again and my default advice is that the relationship has run it's course once this happens and that divorce is the least stressful and least harmful path to take.

Save all your evidence, see a lawyer and file for divorce. Tell your wife you know what happened and not to bother to come home.

At least this way she will regain some measure of respect for you. If she suffers no such severe consequences, she will lose all respect for you and a woman cannot love a man she doesn't respect.

Maybe you can build a new relationship with her in future, but not until you take strong actions to end this sham of a marriage you are in at the moment.

Good luck to you OP.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

When you told your wife she could keep talking to him you pretty much told her you didn’t mind sharing her with another man and that your marriage has no meaning. You have failed the ultimate chit test. Your wife officially believes you are pathetic…..enough so that she doesn’t mind rubbing another man in your face knowing you are to passive and weak to do anything about it.

+palm to face+

I swear I’m going to vomit.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Read the thread: An Ugly Truth


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Your wife is playing with fire 
When you told your wife she could keep talking to him you pretty much told her you didn’t mind sharing her with another man and have in a way become a _Cockhold husband 

she needed you to tell her to stop and you did not she has in one way shifted the blame to you for not stopping it _

I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THE DAY SHE CAME HOME 


abc1234567 said:


> When she came home, it was the first time I ever felt something was off.


I think this day was the day she had sex with him again , the first day the first cheating moment is hard to look at your husband in the eye ,


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

frenchpaddy said:


> Your wife is playing with fire
> When you told your wife she could keep talking to him you pretty much told her you didn’t mind sharing her with another man and have in a way become a _Cockhold husband
> 
> she needed you to tell her to stop and you did not she has in one way shifted the blame to you for not stopping it _
> ...


I totally disagree. She isn’t playing with fire. She already knows what she wants and is outright going for it. The only reason she is being any type of cautious is because she isn’t done gauging the other guy.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

This is another example of a weak man who doesn’t want to appear controlling and instead stands back wringing his hands while the affair develops. 
You need to ask your wife whether she wants to be married to you or not. If she does then she breaks off all contact with her boyfriend.
But you don’t have the balls to do anything do you?


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I think your approach was appropriate. I'm of the mindset that you should let your spouse run, to see if they'll enforce boundaries on their own. If they don't, they're not worth keeping; they failed the test. 

What gives you the 90% certainty that she was physical with him?

I would keep my cards close to the vest. Continue to monitor and consider hiring a PI if you can afford one. If you confront her now, she'll vehemently deny any physical relationship. You'll spend the rest of your life wondering how far it actually went. It's better to have the truth, and she has no intention of giving it to you.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Your wife is texting and meeting up with another man and you’re allowing it? Are you going to buy them wine and condoms too?

Please man up and demand she stop this BS now. That is if you still want to be married to someone that is unfaithful (emotionally and most likely physically) and has zero respect for you.

You hold the cards here, not her. So use them. Take control of the situation or better yet, tell her you are done.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> _*This is another example of a weak man who doesn’t want to appear controlling and instead stands back wringing his hands while the affair develops.
> You need to ask your wife whether she wants to be married to you or not. If she does then she breaks off all contact with her boyfriend.*_
> *But you don’t have the balls to do anything do you?*


Sadly, like most of the men who come here, he does not.

As far as his wife is concerned, of course she wants to still be married to him. She doesn't want to be a single mother scraping by when she can have a better life with the OP. She's not looking to CHANGE what she's got at home, she just wants to go *explore* what it's like with her old boyfriend Prince Charming because it's exciting and romantic and all that good fluffy feely stuff that tends to go by the wayside in a marriage when real life takes over.

This ain't rocket science.

I think the OP needs to take his testicles back out of his wife's purse, start taking care of business, and stop using his kids as an excuse to cower in the corner and do nothing.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


Jimi007 said:



Copy all of the text messages and keep them in a safe place . Contact this other man and confront him. Don't tell your wife , he will do that for you. When she comes to you, and she will , lay it on the line that you refuse to share her with someone else. Tell her in no uncertain terms that either ALL communication stops with this other man or that she has made the choice to end the marriage , and F%#k up her kids lives...

Click to expand...

*Why on earth should the OP threaten the guy like HE'S the problem when his own WIFE refuses to stop talking to him? That's so weak and pathetic. It's so damned pathetic when you have to scare the* other* person off in order to stop the affair because your own spouse sure as hell won't do it on their own steam. It's the same as if you've taken away a favorite toy from a child for having misbehaved - the kid still WANTS the toy but can't have it any longer because it's gone. 

Is that what you want, OP? A wife who would have happily *continued *to cheat on you had you NOT scared off the object of her desire? Yeah, that's real flattering to know that's why the affair stopped, yessir.

The OP's problem *isn't *some clown his wife is drooling over - the OP's problem is his WIFE who has *happily* chosen to betray him since the school reunion and who continues to betray him.

*SHE'S *the problem, not lover boy.


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## StillGettingWiser (6 mo ago)

abc1234567 said:


> She was kind of honest about it and swore nothing physical happened. I believe her.


Strike 1.



abc1234567 said:


> At some point my wife asked me if I wanted her to stop texting him, and I said no.


Strike 2.



abc1234567 said:


> She said they met for a very short drink and that was it. Just trust her.


Strike 3.

I'm going to out on a limb here and say she was frustrated because she was with him and you interrupted their frisky time, or he somehow has boundaries (is he married?) and kept it to a drink and she wanted more.

They've more than likely already messed around and she's manipulating you perfectly by trying to come across as "honest". Wake up!!!


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Why on earth should the OP threaten the guy when his own WIFE refuses to stop talking to him? That's so weak and pathetic. It's so damned pathetic when you have to threaten someone ELSE and make them run off and stop interacting with your spouse because you can't get your spouse to do it by their OWN choice. That is so lame. Your wife HAPPILY gave the guy *permission* to be there in the first place and if she didn't want to be around him, you wouldn't be here right now. So scaring HIM off doesn't solve your problem, does it?
> 
> That's because the OP's problem *isn't *some clown his wife is drooling over - he wouldn't be any kind of threat if the OP's wife actually *respected* him and their marriage. The OP's problem is his WIFE who has *happily* chosen to betray him since the reunion and it's his WIFE who wants to *continue* doing so behind his back.
> 
> *SHE'S *the problem, not lover boy.


Sorry I disagree, 1st I never said to threaten anyone. I said to CONFRONT him. He already has his phone number through the text messages. Do you want him to sit there like a pu$$y and do nothing ? Of course his wife is the problem . If he's not aggressive in putting a stop to it his marriage is lost
It .may be lost already , she's been talking to this guy for at least 2 months that he knows of....Sorry. fight for your marriage , call the M-FER let him know your not a door mat .


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Out of all the weakness displayed in this post, the last paragraph is key.

More concern that the wife will blow up the marriage because you were reading her text messages? 

At this point, anything the kids go through is on the wife 100%.

Tell her you want her to stop all communications with him. Monitor her texts to see if she complies.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> As far as his wife is concerned, of course she wants to still be married to him. She doesn't want to be a single mother scraping by when she can have a better life with the OP. She's not looking to CHANGE what she's got at home, she just wants to go *explore* what it's like with her old boyfriend Prince Charming because it's exciting and romantic and all that good fluffy feely stuff that tends to go by the wayside in a marriage when real life takes over.


yes she is finding a way two fit in two men into her life one helps pay the bills the other she has a connection with in other words she has very strong feelings for him but has not worked out yet if he is worth the risk , 

she is test driving the second guy


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Well bud, what did you think was going to happen? She goes to a reunion, runs into that special first guy. Tells you all about it. You do a gut a check, find she's texting to him. Next instead of letting her know it's wrong, she chose to be with you a long time ago and have a family, you took that passive high ground and told her it's her choice who she talks to. Bingo, the green light was given for her continue down a destructive path for the marriage. You knowingly sat back and allowed her to set up her new/old partner for a renewal of their relationship...while married to you. Now your going to sit there in your Wheaties wondering why me? A man that is direct competition for her heart and time and you allow her to start the affair? What did you think was going to happen?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

manwithnoname said:


> Tell her you want her to stop all communications with him. Monitor her texts to see if she complies.


 yes but there is as others have said a lot of damage has been done it is not a case of just cut off lover boy and all goes back to the way it was , she cuts him off now, he will for the rest of his time think she did x y and z with lover boy , so cutting him off is just the first step in rebuilding their trust , 

she has lost his trust ,


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Look at this way, when a relationship is on the line and cheating is possibly/probably occurring, saying trust me is the equivalent of saying... YOU'RE F****D! Just go ahead and talk with an attorney to find out options going forward with divorce. Drop the bomb and find out the truth...at least as much as a person cheating will tell you. Yes it's never right for a person to cheat on their partner, but you have to take responsibility in this matter. You did allow this situation to start and sat back and watched it like a bad movie you just couldn't turn off.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Sometimes if you want to save something, you have to be willing to blow it up.
You should have taken advantage of the opening she gave you earlier and shut it down. Now you have a definite EA with a highly possible PA to deal with.
She took your kids on a vacation to find context to hook up with another guy? That's disrespectful to you, your kids, and your Marriage.
If you would have done the same thing she did, I'll bet she would have had one hell of a problem with it. So why the double standard.
I'd get a PI or someone to do some investigation into this guy. I'd also touch base with a couple of attorneys, select one, and have some papers drawn up. I'd also study up on and implement the 180.
When I sat down with her, I'd have the dossier on the guy, as well as the divorce paperwork. Without disclosing your sources, let out enough information to let you know that you are on to her. Tell her that the burden is on her to demonstrate/prove that she has not had an EA or a PA, both of which would probably force you to Divorce her. Simply tell her that you do not feel safe in the relationship, and you are not going to live that way.
Her reaction to all this should tell you all that you need to know.
Only you can decide what works for you. However, I'd say that you have a lot of work to do with her regarding trust and boundaries.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

You will obviously get some **** for what you've done here, but it is done and you've made a choice to stand back and see if your wife exerts her own reasonable boundaries. 

She hasn't because she is lost in the affair fog and she doesn't know you have access to more information than she thinks you do.

She has failed your test. She has failed you as a wife.

So, the real question is, what do you do next? The only strong, self-protective action here is to get some legal advice about what divorce might look like and then take the best course of action based on that advice and whether you want to try and revive the marriage or not. Do not confront her until you have this information in hand. It can get bad quickly for husbands who confront wives about affairs unprepared with what their rights and options are.

For example, If you are in a jurisdiction where either there is no fault on a divorce or there is no meaningful difference in the split of assets regardless of fault, spending huge amounts of time and money collecting irrefutable evidence of her infidelity is pointless as you know ther truth and it doesn't matter if she accepts that or not. It is highly unlikely that an affair will impact child custody arrangements. I think you just proceed on the assumption that she has had sex with the guy, it is what adults who find each other attractive do when they have the opportunity and they have had the opportunity.

Once you have had your legal advice and have decided what to do. Then you can confront her with what you want her to do next, be it counselling, separation,etc. Do not move out of your home until your lawyer tells you it is okay to do so (if that is what you want to do).

Do not confront the other man, he is a) meaningless to you and b) could easily provoke a violent reponse from you that would not benefit your future in any way. He is not your problem.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Why would you want to stay married to someone who does this?

She has revealed her true personality and it's not marriage material. 

Divorce and build a life for yourself and your kids and in the future, find a better partner.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Tatsuhiko said:


> I think your approach was appropriate. *I'm of the mindset that you should let your spouse run*, to see if they'll enforce boundaries on their own. If they don't, they're not worth keeping; they failed the test.


I happen to agree with this....

There are three types of cats:

1) Those that stay inside, and have little interest in chasing birds and meeting up with stray alley cats.

2) Those cats that are happy inside, but will act like an alley cat if it gets outside. As long as they are kept inside, they are behaved.

3) Those cats that howl at the door and want out. They are much more happy chasing everything that they can catch and will romp with any other cat that is willing.

OP's wife is the 2nd type of cat.

That said, I do agree that if ABC had put his foot down hard he probably could have **stopped his wife's roaming in the alley.

**Or, just delayed it, driving the affair underground. 
I think the two of them would have gotten together anyway, by the POSOM coming to her town and she going out shopping on her own to meet him in a tryst.

Yes, even if he told her of his reading of her emails, she would then find other means to connect up.

*OR NOT*

Maybe, he could have stopped the whole misbehavior in its tracks.
What then?

He lives with a cheater that *was foiled*, yet, *still soiled*.

Who needs this?

Let her (further) run off the cliff.
It is too late, now. She is already a cheater, from the day of the camp reunion, it happened.

*Let her go.*

At age 38 he can easily start a new life with someone better.



_The Typist-_


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Brother, you were supposed to be her husband, not a parent. I don't tell her who can and can't talk with? That's an escape statement. Couples DO have boundaries. How do you think she would react if you suddenly had met your special first girl,
then like a kid started texting her, ignoring your wife, then trying to set up a meeting? Then actually meeting up and having a go for old times sake? Her loving must be like platinum to take this crap. I feel we all know how that would go down! More than likely this great marriage had ****** in the armor. We all have our issues. She had more than likely, already researched and knew that the guy would be at that camp. Because of her resentments in marriage she was seeking a thrill again and this was the opportunity to her. You sit passively cheering her on to commit a heinous act against your marriage and family? My feeling is YOU share in half of the responsibility in this mess. Don't go home crying to mommy cuz you got a bad wife. You helped create a mess, now it's time to clean it up.
If theirs no mercy for cheaters, why should there be for their enabling partners. Sadly your kids are the innocent in all this.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sometimes it is better to allow Fate to punch you in the face, then for it to dance around you in the dark, taking little bites out of your ego, your soul.

Face your greatest fears head-on. Then, be decisive and clear headed.

Loving feelings and forgiving are for those who deserve these.



_The Typist-_


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

TinyTbone said:


> Brother, you were supposed to be her husband, not a parent. I don't tell her who can and can't talk with? That's an escape statement. Couples DO have boundaries. How do you think she would react if you suddenly had met your special first girl,
> then like a kid started texting her, ignoring your wife, then trying to set up a meeting? Then actually meeting up and having a go for old times sake? Her loving must be like platinum to take this crap. I feel we all know how that would go down! More than likely this great marriage had **** in the armor. We all have our issues. She had more than likely, already researched and knew that the guy would be at that camp. Because of her resentments in marriage she was seeking a thrill again and this was the opportunity to her. You sit passively cheering her on to commit a heinous act against your marriage and family? My feeling is YOU share in half of the responsibility in this mess. Don't go home crying to mommy cuz you got a bad wife. You helped create a mess, now it's time to clean it up.
> If theirs no mercy for cheaters, why should there be for their enabling partners. Sadly your kids are the innocent in all this.


Yeah, well, no fine...

I agree with most of this, save for one part, if OP actually had a decent wife, she would not have turned herself into an adulteress, no matter if OP did everything wrong.

OP did not set boundaries, but her adultery and the choice to commit it is still 100% on his "wife's" shoulders.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

A _Warden_ keeps the prisoners under his control, behaved and they following the rules.

No spouse should feel the need to be a _Warden._

ABC's wife is an adult, not a child, not a prisoner.

..............................................................................................

I am not saying it does not hurt (badly) what she has done.

That said-

She is not worthy of reconciliation. 
She willfully, with clarity of mind, and extensive planning, cheated.

"See ya, thank you for the good years we had together.
No thank you for the last few months".

....................................................................................................

_Life can be an adventure if you ride on top of the waves; not allowing yourself to be taken under and drowned.

The Typist-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

@abc1234567 

Do not be a one-post wonder. 
You are permitted to comment further.

Thanks.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Your wife is having an affair. Emotional for sure. Probably physical.

When a married woman admits to having special feelings for another man, the marriage is in trouble and it is only a matter of time before it blows up in your face if contact between the two continues.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

He cannot save this. The only good course of action is to see a good attorney.
Like most he can’t make a decision so…


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Your wife


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Where are you in your own marriage? Your wife, in order to plan all of this, must be spending an inordinate amount of time on another man. It’s not a “special relationship.” It’s not anything but what it is - an affair. Test driving a past relationship to see if she should trade you in. That’s it.

I know you have feelings invested and we don’t, but your wife is cheating on you. Couples can reconcile but it sounds like your wife has lost interest in the marriage. If you tell her that you want a divorce, be prepared for her to beg you to give her another chance or tell you that it’s all your fault. Cheaters typically don’t want to lose their marriages, believe it or not. They like the benefits of the marriage and the benefits of the affair. So just be prepared for her to not like you taking control of your own life and future. Cheaters don’t like that.

Hope that you stay strong and don’t sweep all this under the carpet.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

abc1234567 said:


> I don't know how to tell her I know more than she realizes without revealing I've been reading the texts for 2 months. I'm afraid if we go there my marriage and life will be blown up. I'm not prepared to do that to my kids.


1. Afraid of what exactly?? Why aren't you bullshyt!?!?

2. It's already blown up. What really is she going to do by you calling her out? Leave you for another man?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

abc1234567 said:


> *I'm afraid* if we go there my marriage and life will be blown up. I'm not prepared to do that to my kids.


And THAT is your sole problem.
This is a case of absolute cowardice. You knowingly allowed your wife to meet and have sex with this guy. Too afraid to do anything for fear you’ll divorce.

There’s the 2x4 you need, although you’ll think I’m trying to offend or shame you. I’m not, don’t know you.

Until you reach the conclusion that your lousy cheating wife should be afraid of losing YOU, not the other way around, NOBODY can help you.

But my advice is to see an attorney and file.
You have already been replaced in your wife’s mind. I’m sorry. I know how this feels.
Please wake up and show some courage. 
That is what will get you out of all the pain.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Teach your children well.
The value of loyalty and personal dignity
Divorce ASAP.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Your wife knows you’re afraid, OP. She takes advantage of the fact that you love her and don’t want to lose the marriage.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

frenchpaddy said:


> yes but there is as others have said a lot of damage has been done it is not a case of just cut off lover boy and all goes back to the way it was , she cuts him off now, he will for the rest of his time think she did x y and z with lover boy , so cutting him off is just the first step in rebuilding their trust ,
> 
> she has lost his trust ,


Yes, so the best course of action is divorcing.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The cheater’s classic—— “just trust me”.
Wish I had a nickel for every tine I heard or saw that written. Elon Musk would be scrubbing my toilets with a toothbrush.

On the divorce service I’d write in red ink at the top: “yeah, I trusted you”. That’s trusted with an ED as in PAST TENSE. I want a divorce.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

manwithnoname said:


> Yes, so the best course of action is divorcing.


TAM has finally come to this conclusion.
As in, uh, why bother?

If you read what the earliest posters recommended here, (pre 2013, or so, on TAM) it was mostly counseling recommended, and consoling the BS, soothing their hurt feelings.
This advice only dragged out further, the pain.

Any viable exceptions to immediate divorce are far and few between.
Eh?
..................................................

No one is born with_ Street Smarts, _they arrive with scars, and are hard won.

_The Typist-_


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Wow. So she is clearly having an affair, and it sounds like it just went physical.

I can't imagine why you weren't doing everything you could to stop this.

The storm is coming, your marriage as you know it is over, regardless of how much you want to keep it together.

If she can do absolutely anything, including date others, and you don't stop her, she won't respect you and that will be a death blow to her attraction to you.

Sorry this is happening.

Your going to get some strong but good advice here, it will be tough to hear considering what has just transpired... stick with posting, you'll be better off in the long run.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Being that _Astrologer,_ a far lesser _Seer_, I see these betrayals differently.

When your spouse betrays you, you need to look for other areas of vulnerability.

Check your environment, your home, your workplace, your family, the Government, for other worrisome activities, and SIGNS.
Alas, then come the sighs..

Then, look over your whole body, and see where else, you have been bitten....
Some bites are internal, the cause either, timed-out genetics, or some sad external fate.

Not one thing acts in a vacuum.

We are not alone in this _stew, that is life_.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

yo


abc1234567 said:


> Wife (38) and I (38) have been married 8 years. Two kids - 5 and 4 y/o. During our entire relationship, I have never had a reason to suspect anything between her and someone else. In July, however, she went to a one-night camp reunion where she reconnected with the guy she lost her virginity to 14 years ago. When she came home, it was the first time I ever felt something was off. I couldn't put my finger on why though. It was just a feeling. So for the first time in our entire relationship, I looked at her text messages.
> 
> Low and behold, all those feelings from back in the day between them came flooding back. It was clear from the texts there had been a strong physical attraction. It was not clear if anything physical happened. Ultimately I confronted my wife about my "feeling" without disclosing that I had seen the text messages. She was kind of honest about it and swore nothing physical happened. I believe her. She also said it is a unique relationship and that he is just someone who will always be special to her.
> 
> ...


you are way too trusting and she tested your boundaries and realized you were going to allow this to happen.

She has this guy as a boyfriend now. So what are you going to do about it ?

I would lie detector her regarding the trip. Do everything you can to cut off their communication. Expose this guy to his spouse if he has one. No more trips for her without you.

If you find out that she cheated, serve the papers. She has no clue what she can lose and you haven't given her any cause for concern.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Marc878 said:


> Your wife
> View attachment 91436


yep exactly


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> And THAT is your sole problem.
> This is a case of absolute cowardice. You knowingly allowed your wife to meet and have sex with this guy. Too afraid to do anything for fear you’ll divorce.
> 
> There’s the 2x4 you need, although you’ll think I’m trying to offend or shame you. I’m not, don’t know you.
> ...


yes this. The boundaries have been tested and there are none that will be enforced. He needs to file. Kids are better being co-parented than watching a weak father tolerate his wife's infidelities


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

abc1234567 said:


> Wife (38) and I (38) have been married 8 years. Two kids - 5 and 4 y/o. During our entire relationship, I have never had a reason to suspect anything between her and someone else. In July, however, she went to a one-night camp reunion where she reconnected with the guy she lost her virginity to 14 years ago. When she came home, it was the first time I ever felt something was off. I couldn't put my finger on why though. It was just a feeling. So for the first time in our entire relationship, I looked at her text messages.
> 
> Low and behold, all those feelings from back in the day between them came flooding back. It was clear from the texts there had been a strong physical attraction. It was not clear if anything physical happened. Ultimately I confronted my wife about my "feeling" without disclosing that I had seen the text messages. She was kind of honest about it and swore nothing physical happened. I believe her. She also said it is a unique relationship and that he is just someone who will always be special to her.
> 
> ...


Come the **** on. How many pansy assed men are populating this world? Dude, she already blew up your marriage and she already did it to your kids. I'm sick and tired of all these men that just sit and ponder what to do when their wives' are soooo obviously screwing another man. You even gave her permission to go meet up with her ex and get laid while you watch the kids at home like a good little boy. WTF?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Come the **** on. How many pansy assed men are populating this world? Dude, she already blew up your marriage and she already did it to your kids. I'm sick and tired of all these men that just sit and ponder what to do when their wives' are soooo obviously screwing another man. You even gave her permission to go meet up with her ex and get laid while you watch the kids at home like a good little boy. WTF?


exactly. I agree 100%.

I will never get the weakness. Passiveness by the BS leads to a deeper affair and more abuse.

This guy needs to hammer this down asap and the best way is to file for divorce. She will either panic or be more emboldened. Fear of loss can lead to more loss.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Your first actions by not shutting the texting down was weak and to your wife's mind your blessing for her to proceed to a physical affair.
> 
> Well, the marriage is toast, it will never be the same again and my default advice is that the relationship has run it's course once this happens and that divorce is the least stressful and least harmful path to take.
> 
> ...


The only part of this I disagree with is the placing of some responsibility on you to " shut down" the texting. As you mentioned, that should be completely voluntary on her part. She should not have to be told that texting and expressing her desire for the OM is unacceptable. She knows it is wrong and is infidelity. 
On the other parts, yes, your relationship is over, and you should look to divorce. She denatured it and she has zero respect for you. She views you as Plan B and I do not see how this can be acceptable to someone with any self respect.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Come the **** on. How many pansy assed men are populating this world? Dude, she already blew up your marriage and she already did it to your kids. I'm sick and tired of all these men that just sit and ponder what to do when their wives' are soooo obviously screwing another man. You even gave her permission to go meet up with her ex and get laid while you watch the kids at home like a good little boy. WTF?


Probably a good move, however, as it revealed her true nature. If she has the desire to do this, any relationship with her is worthless. The self restraint has to be voluntary not caused by fear of consequences. Allegiance to one's s spouse and adherence to vows is worthless unless the desire comes from within.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

wmn1 said:


> exactly. I agree 100%.
> 
> I will never get the weakness. Passiveness by the BS leads to a deeper affair and more abuse.
> 
> This guy needs to hammer this down asap and the best way is to file for divorce. She will either panic or be more emboldened. Fear of loss can lead to more loss.


Let her go. Walk away.


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## Willnotbill (May 13, 2021)

When the OP told his wife he didn't want her to stop texting/talking to the OM he lost control of the situation in my opinion. By agreeing to her communicating with the OM it kicked the door wide open for a PA. At that point he should have told her that if the marriage had any chance at all then all communication will stop immediately and that she should have figured that on her own. 

He should ask for a full account of everything that happened in writing and tell her that he will be setting up a poly - even if he doesn't plan to. It will let her know its a possibility so she should be truthful (maybe). He should also look into the OM to see if he is married so he can notify his wife.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Tatsuhiko said:


> I think your approach was appropriate. I'm of the mindset that you should let your spouse run, to see if they'll enforce boundaries on their own. If they don't, they're not worth keeping; they failed the test.
> 
> What gives you the 90% certainty that she was physical with him?
> 
> I would keep my cards close to the vest. Continue to monitor and consider hiring a PI if you can afford one. If you confront her now, she'll vehemently deny any physical relationship. You'll spend the rest of your life wondering how far it actually went. It's better to have the truth, and she has no intention of giving it to you.


I agree. These cries of weakness and passivity fail to consider the value of having a relationship with someone who has to be forced to be loyal. 
Personally, having to inform my wife that she should not pursue other men would be demeaning. What is he supposed to do, periodically, throughout the marriage, instruct his wife that she should not cheat? Better to have given her enough rope to hang herself, so her true nature is revealed. Think if she is of the mindset to cheat with an old boyfriend, that this particular guy will be her only foray into cheating?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> When you told your wife she could keep talking to him you pretty much told her you didn’t mind sharing her with another man and that your marriage has no meaning. You have failed the ultimate chit test. Your wife officially believes you are pathetic…..enough so that she doesn’t mind rubbing another man in your face knowing you are to passive and weak to do anything about it.
> 
> +palm to face+
> 
> I swear I’m going to vomit.


Any spouse who is giving s___ tests is not worth being married to.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Come the **** on. How many pansy assed men are populating this world? Dude, she already blew up your marriage and she already did it to your kids. I'm sick and tired of all these men that just sit and ponder what to do when their wives' are soooo obviously screwing another man. You even gave her permission to go meet up with her ex and get laid while you watch the kids at home like a good little boy. WTF?


My answer would have been 'yes you are free to text/meet the other man if you choose to but in turn I will see a lawyer and get the divorce rolling'.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> Any spouse who is giving s___ tests is not worth being married to.


You just drained your female pool almost dry. 🤪


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> My answer would have been 'yes you are free to text/meet the other man if you choose to but in turn I will see a lawyer and get the divorce rolling'.


You’re cracking the whip lately 😉


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Why on earth should the OP threaten the guy like HE'S the problem when his own WIFE refuses to stop talking to him? That's so weak and pathetic. It's so damned pathetic when you have to scare the* other* person off in order to stop the affair because your own spouse sure as hell won't do it on their own steam. It's the same as if you've taken away a favorite toy from a child for having misbehaved - the kid still WANTS the toy but can't have it any longer because it's gone.
> 
> Is that what you want, OP? A wife who would have happily *continued *to cheat on you had you NOT scared off the object of her desire? Yeah, that's real flattering to know that's why the affair stopped, yessir.
> 
> ...


See, I agree with this sentiment that forcing someone to be faithful has no value. I think he was right to give enough rope. Otherwise, he would know that it is mere fear of consequences vs her true feelings that forms the basis of her fidelity. 
Seriously, if a 38 year old mother of two really needs to be told to stop texting her old lover and expressing her desire for him, is she a fit spouse?
Sheesh, one would just be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Get out now, while you are reasonably young. You do not want to be your wife's warden.
You now know, with absolute certainty, that given the right opportunity, she will betray you and the kids.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> You just drained your female pool almost dry. 🤪


I have, through no real merit just genetics, never really faced much of a paucity of options.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> I agree. These cries of weakness and passivity fail to consider the value of having a relationship with someone who has to be forced to be loyal.
> Personally, having to inform my wife that she should not pursue other men would be demeaning. What is he supposed to do, periodically, throughout the marriage, instruct his wife that she should not cheat? Better to have given her enough rope to hang herself, so her true nature is revealed. Think if she is of the mindset to cheat with an old boyfriend, that this particular guy will be her only foray into cheating?


I see your point, but one gets away with what one is allowed to get away with as-well. In a better marriage, boundaries would be organic, but we all know from time to time those of lesser character will push the fence to see where it gives.

I personally have (somewhat) forgiven a huge shove to my fence, but my wife knows any repeat would have her out the front door and hopping down the street. Is it ideal? No, but I can live with it. I can also say she knows her leash is tight now and it is of her own making. If she doesn't like it, the door to the street has a welcome sign for her.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> See, I agree with this sentiment that forcing someone to be faithful has no value. I think he was right to give enough rope. Otherwise, he would know that it is mere fear of consequences vs her true feelings that forms the basis of her fidelity.
> Seriously, if a 38 year old mother of two really needs to be told to stop texting her old lover and expressing her desire for him, is she a fit spouse?
> Sheesh, one would just be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Get out now, while you are reasonably young. You do not want to be your wife's warden.
> You now know, with absolute certainty, that given the right opportunity, she will betray you and the kids.


Thing is, I don't believe he gave her enough rope because he was testing her loyalty. He was just weak and fearful, so he passively went along with everything. Even now he is afraid to tell her has seen her text conversations. And I don't think he is afraid because the affair will blow up, he is afraid to tell her he has been "spying" on her. He is contemplating just sitting on this information and acting like nothing is happening, in hopes that his wife will choose him. It is a sad existence IMO.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> Sorry I disagree, 1st I never said to threaten anyone. I said to CONFRONT him. He already has his phone number through the text messages. Do you want him to sit there like a pu$$y and do nothing ? Of course his wife is the problem . If he's not aggressive in putting a stop to it his marriage is lost
> It .may be lost already , she's been talking to this guy for at least 2 months that he knows of....Sorry. fight for your marriage , call the M-FER let him know your not a door mat .


If you have to " fight" to ensure fidelity, is it really fidelity?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Marc878 said:


> Let her go. Walk away.


yep. I fear about the child support but sometimes, walking away saves your life and dignity. I could never stay with a cheat


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## VintageRetro (Apr 13, 2021)

abc1234567 said:


> Wife (38) and I (38) have been married 8 years. Two kids - 5 and 4 y/o. During our entire relationship, I have never had a reason to suspect anything between her and someone else. In July, however, she went to a one-night camp reunion where she reconnected with the guy she lost her virginity to 14 years ago. When she came home, it was the first time I ever felt something was off. I couldn't put my finger on why though. It was just a feeling. So for the first time in our entire relationship, I looked at her text messages.
> 
> Low and behold, all those feelings from back in the day between them came flooding back. It was clear from the texts there had been a strong physical attraction. It was not clear if anything physical happened. Ultimately I confronted my wife about my "feeling" without disclosing that I had seen the text messages. She was kind of honest about it and swore nothing physical happened. I believe her. She also said it is a unique relationship and that he is just someone who will always be special to her.
> 
> ...


Brother there is no right answer. There is no one path. There is nothing any of us can do but support you, offer advice based on our experience and listen. Your marriage will never be the same no matter the outcome. 

I encourage you to lean into this site. Take what works for you in your life. There is a pattern to cheaters. These people know that. There will be some that will be mean and provide no help but the vast majority will be honest and straight forward. This resource is here. Use it.

Believe it or not everyone here cares about you and wants what's best for you. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

From what I’ve seen any type of manipulation just keeps you bound. Long term it accompanies nothing.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> If you have to " fight" to ensure fidelity, is it really fidelity?


It sure as SH isn't sleeping around either. It's letting her know you value yourself, now it's up to her to crawl through the broken glass to fix it and if she can't, well, then she can't.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I see your point, but one gets away with what one is allowed to get away with as-well. In a better marriage, boundaries would be organic, but we all know from time to time those of lesser character will push the fence to see where it gives.
> 
> I personally have (somewhat) forgiven a huge shove to my fence, but my wife knows any repeat would have her out the front door and hopping down the street. Is it ideal? No, but I can live with it. I can also say she knows her leash is tight now and it is of her own making. If she doesn't like it, the door to the street has a welcome sign for her.


See this would bother me, feeling that but for my intervention, my wife would betray me. We all desrve someone who is loyal and needs no coercion to remain so. We are, after all, not exactly chopped liver.
I had myriad opportunities to cheat, many overtures. I expect many of us did. I did not require my spouse to restrain me. That came from within.


BigDaddyNY said:


> Thing is, I don't believe he gave her enough rope because he was testing her loyalty. He was just weak and fearful, so he passively went along with everything. Even now he is afraid to tell her has seen her text conversations. And I don't think he is afraid because the affair will blow up, he is afraid to tell her he has been "spying" on her. He is contemplating just sitting on this information and acting like nothing is happening, in hopes that his wife will choose him. It is a sad existence IMO.


It's early. He may be in shock and afraid- for now. It is quite a thing to dealmwith.
I am guessing, but I think that , subconsciously, he may have been assessing her loyalty and motivation. I faced something similar. I had suspicions but allowed things to progress. Not just to make sure it was really going on, but also so I would be confident that my wife really was of such low character. Inco UK ld never feel comfortable if I knew that but for my intervention, my wife would betray me. Such a relationship would have no value to me. So, I just observed. Once I confirmed it, I was done with her.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> The only part of this I disagree with is the placing of some responsibility on you to " shut down" the texting. As you mentioned, that should be completely voluntary on her part. She should not have to be told that texting and expressing her desire for the OM is unacceptable. She knows it is wrong and is infidelity.
> On the other parts, yes, your relationship is over, and you should look to divorce. She denatured it and she has zero respect for you. She views you as Plan B and I do not see how this can be acceptable to someone with any self respect.


 she asking if it was ok to stay texting was the same as the many topics we get about women asking for an open relationship


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> It sure as SH isn't sleeping around either. It's letting her know you value yourself, now it's up to her to crawl through the broken glass to fix it and if she can't, well, then she can't.


In my case, my wife was already well aware the I valued myself. I would hope his does, as well.
One could argue that having to force or cajole a spouse to be loyal demonstrates a lack of self value. It's like saying" I know I am not enough, not your first choice,but there will be consequences etc..." Just too demeaning to oneself.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> He cannot save this. The only good course of action is to see a good attorney.
> Like most he can’t make a decision so…


Yet. Let the shock and fear wear off a bit. Having kids makes it even tougher to do right off the bat.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> See this would bother me, feeling that but for my intervention, my wife would betray me. We all desrve someone who is loyal and needs no coercion to remain so. We are, after all, not exactly chopped liver.
> I had myriad opportunities to cheat, many overtures. I expect many of us did. I did not require my spouse to restrain me. That came from within.
> 
> It's early. He may be in shock and afraid- for now. It is quite a thing to dealmwith.
> I am guessing, but I think that , subconsciously, he may have been assessing her loyalty and motivation. I faced something similar. I had suspicions but allowed things to progress. Not just to make sure it was really going on, but also so I would be confident that my wife really was of such low character. Inco UK ld never feel comfortable if I knew that but for my intervention, my wife would betray me. Such a relationship would have no value to me. So, I just observed. Once I confirmed it, I was done with her.


Rarely do we get what we deserve, nor deserve what we get, we do however have to play the hand that we are dealt to the best of our abilities. Different players, different strategies, same goals. Just never fold in weakness.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Megaforce said:


> Yet. Let the shock and fear wear off a bit. Having kids makes it even tougher to do right off the bat.


A lot select martyrdom. It helps in not being able to not make a decision.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Benbutton said:


> 1. Afraid of what exactly?? Why aren't you bullshyt!?!?
> 
> 2. It's already blown up. What really is she going to do by you calling her out? Leave you for another man?


Yes, seriously, just f--- that fear. If she has the temerity to be angry after being so thoroughly busted, you have not just a cheater on your hands but someone that is really not terribly bright.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Yeah, well, no fine...
> 
> I agree with most of this, save for one part, if OP actually had a decent wife, she would not have turned herself into an adulteress, no matter if OP did everything wrong.
> 
> OP did not set boundaries, but her adultery and the choice to commit it is still 100% on his "wife's" shoulders.


Yes you are correct, she is still100% responsible for her actions regardless. That is an immutable fact!


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> In my case, my wife was already well aware the I valued myself. I would hope his does, as well.
> One could argue that having to force or cajole a spouse to be loyal demonstrates a lack of self value. It's like saying" I know I am not enough, not your first choice,but there will be consequences etc..." Just too demeaning to oneself.


We will agree to disagree. You call it force, I call it, you came so close to stepping over that line in the sand, you have to work your way back or else the door is open and you may leave.

You see, a PA is my line, not in the sand but carved in rock, had my wife done that, there would have been no discussion, no pleading for forgiveness, no future for the relationship. I consider a PA a de-facto divorce and the legal process mere red tape to satisfy society that the contract is void.

Is this a weak stance? Some might think so. Some aren't me.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

I


Marc878 said:


> A lot select martyrdom. It helps in not being able to not make a decision.


 I suppose but it is early on here. Took me a while to wrap my head around it, consider my options, get legal advice.
It is a dangerous time for a man, especially, with the false domestic violence threat always looming. Best to be prepared.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> We will agree to disagree. You call it force, I call it, you came so close to stepping over that line in the sand, you have to work your way back or else the door is open and you may leave.
> 
> You see, a PA is my line, not in the sand but carved in rock, had my wife done that, there would have been no discussion, no pleading for forgiveness, no future for the relationship. I consider a PA a de-facto divorce and the legal process mere red tape to satisfy society that the contract is void.
> 
> Is this a weak stance? Some might think so. Some aren't me.


We all have different lines. For me, the mere expression of a desire to cheat is carved in stone. I have a very low threshold of tolerance for disloyalty.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TinyTbone said:


> Brother, you were supposed to be her husband, not a parent. I don't tell her who can and can't talk with? That's an escape statement. Couples DO have boundaries. How do you think she would react if you suddenly had met your special first girl,
> then like a kid started texting her, ignoring your wife, then trying to set up a meeting? Then actually meeting up and having a go for old times sake? Her loving must be like platinum to take this crap. I feel we all know how that would go down! More than likely this great marriage had **** in the armor. We all have our issues. She had more than likely, already researched and knew that the guy would be at that camp. Because of her resentments in marriage she was seeking a thrill again and this was the opportunity to her. You sit passively cheering her on to commit a heinous act against your marriage and family? My feeling is YOU share in half of the responsibility in this mess. Don't go home crying to mommy cuz you got a bad wife. You helped create a mess, now it's time to clean it up.
> If theirs no mercy for cheaters, why should there be for their enabling partners. Sadly your kids are the innocent in all this.


I disagree that he shares responsibility. The initial foray was done surreptitiously. Once that line was crossed it was over. I suppose in the sense that his picker was bad, he bears some responsibility. But, these cheating types are very good at masking themselves during courtship.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> We all have different lines. For me, the mere expression of a desire to cheat is carved in stone. I have a very low threshold of tolerance for disloyalty.


I respect that. You see, I'm more like you than you realize yet even an Oak tree needs to bend a little when the hurricane strikes. She knows she ended our relationship, we haven't celebrated an anniversary since, because I'm still deciding if she has done enough for her to merit staying. If she ever does, I might consider it or not.

Is this what I wanted, no, but for now, it's enough.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I respect that. You see, I'm more like you than you realize yet even an Oak tree needs to bend a little when the hurricane strikes. She knows she ended our relationship, we haven't celebrated an anniversary since, because I'm still deciding if she has done enough for her to merit staying. If she ever does, I might consider it or not.
> 
> Is this what I wanted, no, but for now, it's enough.


Yes, it is a very tough decision and, to be honest, unlike your wife, mine showed absolutely no inclination to take responsibility and try to fix things. So, my decision was made for me, although I took the initiative once that was apparent. I cannot say with certainty what I would have done if my XW was willing to do the crawling through glass deal.
I do know, however, it would have been extremely difficult for me to put my resentment behind me.
First thing this young man should do,IMO, isto confront his cheating wife and then have her served. See how she reacts and then decide if he wants to continue.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> I do know, however, it would have been extremely difficult for me to put my resentment behind me.


Many things that seemed to have been stable is now in flux, resentment being close to the surface is one of them. Let's face it, stay or go, it will still be there. If by midyear next year it's still there, well, then she can pack some of it in her bag and leave. You see when an Oak bends in the wind, some of it still suffers, but at least there is no loud snap and limp wood falling.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Well you already know that she is a liar. You read the texts and she told you something else. Why would you believe anything she says from here on. Like others have been saying, she did the deed on the first time they met at the reunion - often that is what reunions are for and nothing good comes from them (you should have accompanied here then). Now she is freely sleeping with him and you are failing test after test. I agree that you have behaved very weakly here and your marriage is toast. Start taking steps to protect yourself financially in inevitable divorce that will come when she realises that she wants to be with him. Are there kids involved here?


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> I disagree that he shares responsibility. The initial foray was done surreptitiously. Once that line was crossed it was over. I suppose in the sense that his picker was bad, he bears some responsibility. But, these cheating types are very good at masking themselves during courtship.


I disagree to a point. He should have immediately talked to her about ending contact with him once he knew she was texting him. Should have confronted as to what's going on and pushed for truth and information. Maybe it would have helped/maybe not. No way to tell now. To sit back and allow this to develop is sad.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

TinyTbone said:


> I disagree to a point. He should have immediately talked to her about ending contact with him once he knew she was texting him. Should have confronted as to what's going on and pushed for truth and information. Maybe it would have helped/maybe not. No way to tell now. To sit back and allow this to develop is sad.


It’s not sad, it’s pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

I don’t know how we’ve collectively failed so miserably that there are so many men with so little strength and self-respect.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> It’s not sad, it’s pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
> 
> I don’t know how we’ve collectively failed so miserably that there are so many men with so little strength and self-respect.


Just my opinion but being reduced to having to be your spouse's conscience/warden seems more pathetic to me. What kind of self respect is displayed by a man having to insist, despite his wife's s obvious preference and desire for another guy, that she remain faithful and desist flirting. I think it is incredibly demeaning to oneself to have to stoop to this. To me, this shows a lack of self respect, this need to assert boundaries that any half bright married person already knows exist.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TinyTbone said:


> I disagree to a point. He should have immediately talked to her about ending contact with him once he knew she was texting him. Should have confronted as to what's going on and pushed for truth and information. Maybe it would have helped/maybe not. No way to tell now. To sit back and allow this to develop is sad.


Yes, by the point she broached the subject of continued texting, as I recall, he was already aware that they had a rendezvous and that they had already expressed their desire for each other and planned future meet ups. It is not as if she had approached him prior to any of this asking for an advisory opinion( as ridiculous as that would be for any half bright person) re initiating contact. The horse was already out of the barn. And, unbeknownst to her, he was aware of this.
It, actually, worked in favor of giving him access to additional evidence and insight into the true character of his wife and her depravity. He got to read even more of the damning texts.
And, as many of us know, I think, this lie bias phenomenon plays tricks on a person and sometimes a lesser amount of evidence is rationalized away. Allowing it to continue ( the infidelity had already occurred, as I recall) he got a lot more evidence. Now, he is less likely to have doubts. And, since the marriage was already vitiated, no additional harm, just more of the same.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

You want her to compare a man she gave her virginity to, a marriage that has worn out over the years and is emotionally and physically monotonous.

You overestimate yourself and forget that it is your responsibility to protect your marriage.

Would your wife trust you if you were in the same situation?

chose her place. met to man


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

abc1234567 said:


> *Wife (38) and I (38) have been married 8 years. Two kids - 5 and 4 y/o.* During our entire relationship, I have never had a reason to suspect anything between her and someone else. In July, however, *she went to a one-night camp reunion where she reconnected with the guy she lost her virginity to 14 years ago*. When she came home, it was the first time I ever felt something was off. I couldn't put my finger on why though. It was just a feeling. So for the first time in our entire relationship, I looked at her text messages.
> 
> Low and behold, *all those feelings from back in the day between them came flooding back.* It was clear from the texts there had been a strong physical attraction. It was not clear if anything physical happened. Ultimately I confronted my wife about my "feeling" without disclosing that I had seen the text messages. She was kind of honest about it and swore nothing physical happened. I believe her. She also said it is a unique relationship and that he is just someone who will always be special to her.
> 
> ...


My opinion on what is going on is much different that most of the others who have commented.

First let's do the math and some analysis. Her age 38 and 8 years married. She was 30 when she got married and then rather quickly had kids. A 14 year camp reunion? She would have been 24 years old when she went to that camp and lost her virginity. 24 year old virgins in summer camp? What kind of camp was that and was she a counselor or a camper? Why would a 24 year old woman being working as a summer camp counselor and not have graduated from college or had a full time job? The idea of going to a 14 year camp reunion seems ridiculous to me. In fact the whole timeline looks strange.

It would be nice if the OP had a recent post or if he has been scared off by the advice he has gotten so far.

So what do I think is going on? I think that the 24 year old woman who lost her virginity to this OM, was still in love with him well past the end of camp and probably even when she got married to the OP. I think the OP was a convenient Plan B, who she settled for.

A 14 year camp reunion? There may have been one, but was there a 10-year or a 15-year reunion? I have gone to a lot of High School reunions, but never a "camp reunion." My first question would be was there really a "camp reunion?" If there was, I would almost suspect that she had been in contact with the OM even before the reunion and they planned to hook up and reconnect. The comment about being overwhelmed by past feelings.........I don't buy that. She went with the hope of rekindling sexual feelings, if she hadn't been cheating on her H, the OP even before the reunion. I bet she even knew he would be there.

I understand why a man who is happy with his wife, clueless about how she feels about him, loves his life and his two small children would fear change as drastic as divorce. However, he needs to start to see what is really going on. He is certainly free to choose to reconcile with her. That is his choice to make.

I think that the OP needs to have a frank discussion with his wife on boundaries. He doesn't need to confess to reading her texts. He just needs to tell her that the two of them are married. That the two of them when they got married made a commitment to the concept of marriage. They have a family. All marriages have their ups and downs, but the commitment is to work through and be faithful to each other. Without revealing he has read her texts, he can say that he has lost sleep and that his feelings and instincts tell him that something is not right with their marriage and he can't trust her anymore. If he wants to divorce her then he should divorce her. If he wants to reconcile, then he should insist on marriage counseling and complete transparency and her telling him what has really transpired with this other man.

OP, I wish you good luck. I think your marriage is in crisis and you have every right to divorce her if that is what you want. If you want to try to reconcile your marriage, you need to understand you can't do it by yourself. She needs to change her views on marriage, commitment and fidelity. Don't be surprised if she has been communicating with this guy for a long time, even before the reunion. Attending a 14 year camp reunion sounds like an absolute line of B.S..


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

TinyTbone said:


> I disagree to a point. He should have immediately talked to her about ending contact with him once he knew she was texting him. Should have confronted as to what's going on and pushed for truth and information. Maybe it would have helped/maybe not. No way to tell now. To sit back and allow this to develop is sad.


Let's just say, he made his choices in **buenos mores* (with good intent) and she made her in **males mores* (with bad intent).

Unfortunately the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

**Roman-Dutch Legal Terms (Latin)*


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> I think that the OP needs to have a frank discussion with his wife on boundaries. He doesn't need to confess to reading her texts. He just needs to tell her that the two of them are married. That the two of them when they got married made a commitment to the concept of marriage. They have a family. All marriages have their ups and downs, but the commitment is to work through and be faithful to each other. Without revealing he has read her texts, he can say that he has lost sleep and that his feelings and instincts tell him that something is not right with their marriage and he can't trust her anymore. If he wants to divorce her then he should divorce her. If he wants to reconcile, then he should insist on marriage counseling and complete transparency and her telling him what has really transpired with this other man.


 Thank you for the time line explained I did the sums my self but missed out on a lot as not been from the US I have no idea what these camps are , how they are run and for what reason , 

yes the 14 year reunion sounds off , was it a reunion or a meet up with a few friends from a time that worked together in a camp ,

what I do not agree with is your advice on holding back that he read the texts , but advising on marriage counseling and complete transparency, 

Yes I think they need MC I think I said so before in a post , but like any couple that go to MC if both go and both don't give full and complete transparency it is a wast of time 

she needs to come clean about all the points you made about the time line and her feelings about the other guy , more important than if they had sex , it is not good to have sex but it is worse if she is holding feelings for her first love ,strong feelings and if what you say about she pick OP as a convenient Plan B, who she settled for. which I think could be the case , but they might be good together if this other first lover was not sniffing around and if she still has a soft spot for him ,


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> TAM has finally come to this conclusion.
> As in, uh, why bother?
> 
> If you read what the earliest posters recommended here, (pre 2013, or so, on TAM) it was mostly counseling recommended, and consoling the BS, soothing their hurt feelings.
> ...


I was always hopeful that cases like this would be resolved (successfully) without rugsweeping. After seeing how most of these play out when the betrayed spouse does not play their best hand, I find the best thing to do is to take the most likely future outcome, and make it happen now.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> My opinion on what is going on is much different that most of the others who have commented.
> 
> First let's do the math and some analysis. Her age 38 and 8 years married. She was 30 when she got married and then rather quickly had kids. A 14 year camp reunion? She would have been 24 years old when she went to that camp and lost her virginity. 24 year old virgins in summer camp? What kind of camp was that and was she a counselor or a camper? Why would a 24 year old woman being working as a summer camp counselor and not have graduated from college or had a full time job? The idea of going to a 14 year camp reunion seems ridiculous to me. In fact the whole timeline looks strange.
> 
> ...


It was a “camp reunion” and she reconnected with the guy she lost her virginity to 14 years ago, not a 14 year camp reunion.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Let's just say, he made his choices in **buenos mores* (with good intent) and she made her in **males mores* (with bad intent).
> 
> Unfortunately the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
> 
> **Roman-Dutch Legal Terms (Latin)*


Indeed


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Your so called loving wife is what has blown up your family and marriage. She has chosen to **** another guy.

You have chosen to be passive while their relationship grew emotionally.

You basically sat there and watched your wife form a new relationship and did nothing. Hoping she would see the error of her ways with you giving her the green light.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> Sorry I disagree, 1st I never said to threaten anyone. I said to CONFRONT him. He already has his phone number through the text messages. Do you want him to sit there like a pu$$y and do nothing ? Of course his wife is the problem . If he's not aggressive in putting a stop to it his marriage is lost
> It .may be lost already , she's been talking to this guy for at least 2 months that he knows of....Sorry. fight for your marriage , call the M-FER let him know your not a door mat .


This is so wrong on so many different levels. This OM did not make vows to the OP. This OM owes the OP nothing. The problem is his cheating liar of a wife. She is the only person he should be dealing with. All threatening the OM is going to do is land him in jail.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

manwithnoname said:


> It was a “camp reunion” and she reconnected with the guy she lost her virginity to 14 years ago, not a 14 year camp reunion.


Thank you. OK, it was a "camp reunion." So you think she lost her virginity to this OM at age 24 and was having sex with him for several years after age 24? And the "best thing she can do in common with him is to see him at a "camp reunion?"

How many camp reunions have you attended? I did go to a couple of summer camps as a kid, but never heard of a camp reunion for adults. It could be a different cultural thing, but that would still surprise me. An adult going to a "camp reunion" or even "camp reunions existing" is totally incomprehensible to me. But that could be just me.

Reconnecting with a "past lover" at a "camp reunion" is sort of huh? I mean does she want to see this guy and be seen by past friends from way back? I would think that part of the draw of a reunion (like the high school reunions I have attended) is to see a bunch of folks I grew up with and catch up on how their lives have unfolded; not to focus all my time on one person. But the part that strikes me as odd, is that those people I look forward to seeing, I grew up with and spend most days from grade school to high school with. I want to reconnect with many of them. A camp reunion implies being with people you only knew for a few weeks at most a year, unless it is a very different kind of camp than I have experienced.

The only kind of "camp reunion" that I could contemplate having a reunion, might be an Olympic training camp, or something like that, which was the physical high point in a person's life. Even then, I would expect few would attend such a reunion. I mean, I know guys who played on nationally ranked college football teams and have never gone back for a homecoming game.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bygone said:


> You want her to compare a man she gave her virginity to, a marriage that has worn out over the years and is emotionally and physically monotonous.
> 
> You overestimate yourself and forget that it is your responsibility to protect your marriage.
> 
> ...


Again, it was already a done deal by the time she asked him about continuing to text. There was nothing he could have done prophylactically. The cheating had already occurred.
He merely gave her the opportunity to solidify his suspicions. And, this was a good thing, producing further , more concrete evidence that allows him to act with certainty. 
A


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Let's just say, he made his choices in **buenos mores* (with good intent) and she made her in **males mores* (with bad intent).
> 
> Unfortunately the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
> 
> **Roman-Dutch Legal Terms (Latin)*


How likely is it that with a wife with this mindset, an alternative road would not have, eventually, led to exactly the same place? Perhaps with a different person, but this is a woman that was on a mission to get sexual variety. Really, with a wife dead set on cheating, as she was, would insisting she stop texting prevent her cheating? Did he need to " save her from herself".? Anyone want a spouse that, clearly, does not love him or her as demonstrated by her already having cheated ?


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> How likely is it that with a wife with this mindset, an alternative road would not have, eventually, led to exactly the same place? Perhaps with a different person, but this is a woman that was on a mission to get sexual variety. Really, with a wife dead set on cheating, as she was, would insisting she stop texting prevent her cheating? Did he need to " save her from herself".? Anyone want a spouse that, clearly, does not love him or her as demonstrated by her already having cheated ?


this is a problematic point of view and delusional

It is the duty of spouses to protect each other and warn against risks.

love is something that changes often.

you love your partner, what he provides, his sense of security, parenting, family compatibility, career, support, protection, etc.

om is just sex.

It offers an emotional explosion and excitement, different interest, different perspective or contribution to life, shows love in different ways, etc. that is love. The main idea is that everything that happens in the om is seen and felt differently.

They cheat because they do not provide confidence and excitement from the same person.

Marriages can go on, and many people take time to continue.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

bygone said:


> this is a problematic point of view and delusional
> 
> It is the duty of spouses to protect each other and warn against risks.
> 
> ...


“Honey, ****ing other people is bad and wrong. You’ve been protected and warned.” 

That’s a good one. I got a good laugh there.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

ArthurGPym said:


> This is so wrong on so many different levels. This OM did not make vows to the OP. This OM owes the OP nothing. The problem is his cheating liar of a wife. She is the only person he should be dealing with. All threatening the OM is going to do is land him in jail.


You are completely missing the point. I said confront him...I didn't say threaten him...If doesn't take the bull by the horns this EA/PA is not going to stop. I've already stated the problem is his wife..We obviously come from different backgrounds, try actually reading what I wrote instead of speculating. Sorry , you fight for what is yours. That's my camp.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

bygone said:


> om is just sex.


And if more see this as a de-facto instant divorce, the legal side being nothing but red-tape, less people will dare to live their adulterous ways. Now wouldn't that save a-lot of heartache?

I take offense to the use of the word "just". Once married or in a monogamous relationship, sex is sacred within the confines of the marriage or relationship and taking it outside, behind your spouses back is disgusting and a destruction of promises and vows that should by default be the instant disillusion of the relationship.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> You are completely missing the point. I said confront him...I didn't say threaten him...If doesn't take the bull by the horns this EA/PA is not going to stop. I've already stated the problem is his wife..We obviously come from different backgrounds, try actually reading what I wrote instead of speculating. Sorry , you fight for what is yours. That's my camp.


No I understood what you said. But confronting often leads to heated exchanges which can elevate into violence or instances that could land OP in a lawsuit. Better for him to stay away from the guy altogether. Again, confronting this a*#hole is a fruitless endeavor. What do you think OP is going to get this guy to feel bad about what he did, or get him to tell the truth? The OM is going to lie and obfuscate and OP will get nowhere, OR, the OM will double down and tell him "try and stop me..."

The best way for OP to go forward is to stop worrying about stopping or halting the affair. The affair is out of his hands. His wife is going to cheat on him and there isn't anything he can do short of chaining her to a pipe in the basement to stop her. He needs to take that emotional energy and channel it into moving forward with his life without her; taking that anger and channeling it into a hard driving divorce.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

ArthurGPym said:


> No I understood what you said. But confronting often leads to heated exchanges which can elevate into violence or instances that could land OP in a lawsuit. Better for him to stay away from the guy altogether. Again, confronting this a*#hole is a fruitless endeavor. What do you think OP is going to get this guy to feel bad about what he did, or get him to tell the truth? The OM is going to lie and obfuscate and OP will get nowhere, OR, the OM will double down and tell him "try and stop me..."
> 
> The best way for OP to go forward is to stop worrying about stopping or halting the affair. The affair is out of his hands. His wife is going to cheat on him and there isn't anything he can do short of chaining her to a pipe in the basement to stop her. He needs to take that emotional energy and channel it into moving forward with his life without her; taking that anger and channeling it into a hard driving divorce.


Ok....I get your point...the " Try and Stop me line "......lol...
I agree to disagree. I would simply call and ask him . "What are your intentions with my wife " I would tell him , I've seen all of your romantic texts with my wife . This may stop it..Maybe not

The OP is doing NOTHING to stop it


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

bygone said:


> this is a problematic point of view and delusional
> 
> It is the duty of spouses to protect each other and warn against risks.
> 
> ...


These words could be direct from his wife, true cheater speak justification.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> Ok....I get your point...the " Try and Stop me line "......lol...
> I agree to disagree. I would simply call and ask him . "What are your intentions with my wife " I would tell him , I've seen all of your romantic texts with my wife . This may stop it..Maybe not
> 
> The OP is doing NOTHING to stop it


It is a pointless endeavor in my opinion, because if OP's wife is truly in love with this guy and she finds out OP called him, her first inclination will be to protect the OM and dig her heels in. It never turns out the way you intend it to. As I said, it is the WW who is the problem here. The OM isn't taking anything that she isn't giving willingly. Yeah he's a douche for going after a married woman, but if it had not been him it would have been someone else eventually, because the core problem here is that the OP's WW is a cheater. 

Now having said that, I am all for telling the other person's spouse. I'm totally down with that.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

I did not advocate cheating

I wanted to convey that "om" does not intend to live together in the future.

spouses want to continue the marriage

Divorce is not always easy, financial situation, rent, alimony, trying to have new relationships are not easy, even dividing time with children is a reason not to get divorced.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

bygone said:


> I did not advocate cheating


Just advocating accepting cheating and staying together....


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

ArthurGPym said:


> It is a pointless endeavor in my opinion, because if OP's wife is truly in love with this guy and she finds out OP called him, her first inclination will be to protect the OM and dig her heels in. It never turns out the way you intend it to. As I said, it is the WW who is the problem here. The OM isn't taking anything that she isn't giving willingly. Yeah he's a douche for going after a married woman, but if it had not been him it would have been someone else eventually, because the core problem here is that the OP's WW is a cheater.
> 
> Now having said that, I am all for telling the other person's spouse. I'm totally down with that.


Your not wrong on any of what you wrote. And much of it I do agree with. I guess my point is the OP is doing nothing to try and save his marriage. 

And that I do not understand. 

If it were me I would pull out all stops to end the affair. Your right he's just taking what's freely given.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ArthurGPym said:


> channel it into moving forward with his life without her; taking that anger and channeling it into a hard driving divorce.


Indeed.



Jimi007 said:


> This may stop it..Maybe not


Suppose he "stops" it. What has he achieved? He has screwed up is cheating wife's fun. Now he has a cheater all to himself for awhile? It's like getting a used sofa that a cat used for a litterbox. He would need to get an STD test every day to avoid catching something from the sl*t. A total waste of time and energy.



ArthurGPym said:


> As I said, it is the WW who is the problem here. The OM isn't taking anything that she isn't giving willingly. Yeah he's a douche for going after a married woman, but if it had not been him *it would have been someone else* eventually, because the core problem here is that the OP's WW is a cheater.


She wanted to get plowed by someone other than her husband. Anyone would do. She is basically a streetwalker who doesn't charge her customers.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> Your not wrong on any of what you wrote. And much of it I do agree with. I guess my point is the OP is doing nothing to try and* save his marriage.*


Once infidelity has been introduced, there isn't really anything to save. It isn't a marriage actually anymore. The cheater divorced but didn't bother with the paperwork.


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## Butforthegrace (Oct 6, 2021)

OP posted once, about four days ago. Since then, there have been over 100 posts of commenters bickering amongst themselves over stuff OP never discussed.

I understand that, based on what OP described in his post, the evidence strongly suggests a PA, and even if there was no PIV intercourse, clearly the WW has a highly inappropriate relationship with her old boyfriend. But without OP's ongoing participation in this thread, I don't know what all of the internecine bickering does for him.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Jimi007 said:


> Your not wrong on any of what you wrote. And much of it I do agree with. I guess my point is the OP is doing nothing to try and save his marriage.
> 
> And that I do not understand.
> 
> If it were me I would pull out all stops to end the affair. Your right he's just taking what's freely given.



The *only* control a betrayed person has is in what they will tolerate. 

But you would make an excellent competitor in the pick-me-dance-a-thon.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Jimi007 said:


> I guess my point is the OP is doing nothing to try and save his marriage


What marriage? She ended it when she cheated. There is nothing to save once cheating occurs.... and if there was, it would be on the cheater to save it, not the betrayed.


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## MrBigBull (6 mo ago)

Hi abc1234567,

First of all, do not stay for the kids.
That would sound strange, but the children are better of in two happy homes than in one broken.
Yours is broken now, your wife betrayed you, and lied to you, and is still lying to you.

I know this will all be hard, but there is no easy way out of this. Think of it this way, your children will most benefit from you if you are happy and without stress. That is not the case right now.

Strangely enough, the path of ending the marriage or trying to save it are the same.
For the last part, you will be needing to want to end the marriage in order to save it.

There are two ways. If she is still away, then just text her something in the line of "I know you cheated on me with him, and still talking to him. I will talk to a divorce lawyer soon. Do not bother to come back home. Do not bother to reply on this message or contact me at all, I will be ignoring all your communication attempts. I will give you the details of my lawyer soon, all communication will go through him.". And send one of the text messages as proof.

If she is already home, but you did not confront her yet, then go to a lawyer and draw up the papers.
Have her served at her work is she works. Have a print of the text message with the papers and also telling her all communication will go through your lawyer. Only communication allowed is regarding the children, nothing else.

Will this you drop a massive bomb on her that will instantly get her out of the fog.
There are more than one outcome possible, I will name a few.
One being she is fine with the divorce and accepts it, you need to be prepared for this possibility.
Second, she will have a break down. Let her have it, she did all this, her problem, not yours.
Third, she confesses and tell it was a mistake. Do not fall for it, it was not a mistake, it was a decision. It was all planned.
Fourth, she wants to reconcile. Do not give that easily if you want that too. Tell her you need your time thinking about it, because she broke two of the foundations of marriage, loyalty and honesty. Tell her she needs to proof she is still worthy of you love, she needs to proof she can be trusted, because right now all trust in her is gone.




abc1234567 said:


> Wife (38) and I (38) have been married 8 years. Two kids - 5 and 4 y/o. During our entire relationship, I have never had a reason to suspect anything between her and someone else. In July, however, she went to a one-night camp reunion where she reconnected with the guy she lost her virginity to 14 years ago. When she came home, it was the first time I ever felt something was off. I couldn't put my finger on why though. It was just a feeling. So for the first time in our entire relationship, I looked at her text messages.
> 
> Low and behold, all those feelings from back in the day between them came flooding back. It was clear from the texts there had been a strong physical attraction. It was not clear if anything physical happened. Ultimately I confronted my wife about my "feeling" without disclosing that I had seen the text messages. She was kind of honest about it and swore nothing physical happened. I believe her. She also said it is a unique relationship and that he is just someone who will always be special to her.
> 
> ...


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