# When couple is having sex, do you (truly) believe that both parties spend an equal amount of physical exertion during sex?



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Here's the premise. Women will state they put just as much physical effort into a typical sexual encounter as the man does.

Women say that because it's an attempt to stay on equal footing. 

Men accept as men they do most of the work, and are typically happy to do so, and let the woman say what they want about equal effort because it really doesn't matter, the guys are getting sex on demand and smart guys don't belabor the point. 

Women change positions as asked, or as they want, so the man can access from various directions, various entrances, but the guy is still in charge of keeping the motion going.

It's not absolute, so I'm not completely generalizing.

But most women like to get naked and get taken, a typical scenario. Again emphasizing the guy is in charge of the in and outs of the whole thing, as a bad pun I know.

And performing oral on her. Again, man performs. 

Men typically let the white lie exist without disagreeing with the woman that she does just as much of the physical part of a good encounter. He believes, and is good judgement, to let that white lie stand.

Most guys smartly don't bring it up, and don't really care. The man should put out the effort to ensure she has a great time. Imo. Is normal.

But to examine the human condition from a non judgmental and objective point of view;

do you think the man does almost of the physical effort required in an encounter, or not?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

OK, I am a feminist idealogically BUT I kind of agree with you most of the time. A lot of women prefer men who lead. 

However, in my last relationship the major issue was that I was expected to put in the most effort in bed and do the pursuing and it makes one feel unwanted, and unattractive. There has to be more of a balance, where both parties are giving and receiving, at least for me. I don't want to initiate all the time, but I do feel like if I initiate, and get turned down, I'm a lot less likely to initiate again. Perhaps that isn't the norm, I don't know.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

To be fair, I would say oral when women perform on men, is quite strenuous too, but enjoyable nonetheless.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

It depends on the man and on the woman. Why is this a question?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> To be fair, I would say oral when women perform on men, is quite strenuous too, but enjoyable nonetheless.


I certainly don't disagree with that, good point, if all actions start to finish are in her hands and talents, and to completion.

I've read some women do a few minutes of oral on a guy, before shifting positions, many don't go all the way.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

joannacroc said:


> OK, I am a feminist idealogically BUT I kind of agree with you most of the time. A lot of women prefer men who lead.
> 
> However, in my last relationship the major issue was that I was expected to put in the most effort in bed and do the pursuing and it makes one feel unwanted, and unattractive. There has to be more of a balance, where both parties are giving and receiving, at least for me. I don't want to initiate all the time, but I do feel like if I initiate, and get turned down, I'm a lot less likely to initiate again. Perhaps that isn't the norm, I don't know.


Now assume that this post was made by a man:

"in my last relationship the major issue was that I was expected to put in the most effort in bed and do the pursuing and it makes one feel unwanted, and unattractive. There has to be more of a balance, where both parties are giving and receiving, at least for me. I don't want to initiate all the time, but I do feel like if I initiate, and get turned down, I'm a lot less likely to initiate again."

I can hear it now. "That's what men are supposed to do." "So long as she's willing to have sex, what difference does it make?" "Maybe she's tired from taking care of the kids." "She wants to feel pursued and loved."


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Sfort said:


> Now assume that this post was made by a man:
> 
> "in my last relationship the major issue was that I was expected to put in the most effort in bed and do the pursuing and it makes one feel unwanted, and unattractive. There has to be more of a balance, where both parties are giving and receiving, at least for me. I don't want to initiate all the time, but I do feel like if I initiate, and get turned down, I'm a lot less likely to initiate again."
> 
> I can hear it now. "That's what men are supposed to do." "So long as she's willing to have sex, what difference does it make?" "Maybe she's tired from taking care of the kids." "She wants to feel pursued and loved."


Fair enough. It may not be very PC but a lot of men prefer their wives intiate at least part of the time - I have read it on TAM quite a bit - women whose husbands say they don't feel wanted or desired. I have no issue with that. But if the only time you are having sex with your partner, you are the one initiating, it DOES make you feel unwanted. Like I said, I think there has to be a balance in who initiates for both partners to feel wanted and desired - but others might not feel that way. Some couples one partner always initiates and they both prefer it that way. Who am I to question what works for other people?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I've actually never had this conversation and it has never come up. I think the only place I have ever heard it referenced is here and by you Ragnar, if I'm not mistaken.

In my experience, I have done most of the work, most of the time.

Male physiology alone makes it more likely that he will be doing more on average and I'm many times stronger than any woman I have been with as well.

Occasionally, she will be doing more depending on the position and my first partner was a wildcat that did everything. Oral is always more work for my partner but, in general, I have always done more.

It's really fun though.😉


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sfort said:


> It depends on the man and on the woman. Why is this a question?


Based on articles from Redbook, Psychology Totay, diff women's magazines articles about how the H is expected to lead in the bedroom combined in a contrast of articles declaring women do things equal to men in all circumstances, seems conflicting points of view in most sexual encounters. 

In simple terms, missionary, doggy, standing, spread legs, etc - who does most of the physical thrusting and pounding (sorry to be crass).

Truly an outside objective examination of the human condition in love making to marry the two points of view.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

joannacroc said:


> Fair enough. It may not be very PC but a lot of men prefer their wives intiate at least part of the time - I have read it on TAM quite a bit - women whose husbands say they don't feel wanted or desired. I have no issue with that. But if the only time you are having sex with your partner, you are the one initiating, it DOES make you feel unwanted. Like I said, I think there has to be a balance in who initiates for both partners to feel wanted and desired - but others might not feel that way. Some couples one partner always initiates and they both prefer it that way. Who am I to question what works for other people?


I'm not into PC, but I do think it is helpful to point out situations that help each side understand the other. I have no problem with what you posted.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Any guy who whines about the effort needs to stop and consider how long a woman can be in labor and how much effort it takes to push out a baby. Man up or hand in your man card.

There have been several women on here who state their husbands just lie there and want cowgirl every single time. Who's doing all the work? The one on top does the majority of the work.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Any guy who whines about the effort needs to stop and consider how long a woman can be in labor and how much effort it takes to push out a baby. Man up or hand in your man card.
> 
> *There have been several women on here who state their husbands just lie there and want cowgirl every single time. Who's doing all the work? The one on top does the majority of the work.*


I think this is probably the male equivalent of starfish. And equally offputting.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

This is a sexist post...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Not really worried about equality of energy expenditure during that time.

Starfish is a different thing, no one wants a lazy lover.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I've actually never had this conversation and it has never come up. I think the only place I have ever heard it referenced is here and by you Ragnar, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> In my experience, I have done most of the work, most of the time.
> 
> ...


And that's what I'm saying. Men do, and happily btw, most of the work.

Both parties initiate as is best, the really best of all situations to start a romantic interlude but when the encounter proceeds it's the man that is called upon to mostly, not always, take things to happy completion for both.

I've had pre M women that were all about being physical and taking things in their own charge, outstanding, and those are different cases. DW is the same a lot as well.

Everytime I read an article or post where a woman states I made myself available to him, so I did my part. ...it makes me want to say really, so that's what you call being equal in the sex department.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sfort said:


> I'm not into PC, but I do think it is helpful to point out situations that help each side understand the other. I have no problem with what you posted.


And this is the goal. To perhaps help spread a little understanding both ways. I'm not saying who is right or wrong, because there is no wrong here.

Just sharing a concept across both sexes to think about.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> OK, I am a feminist idealogically BUT I kind of agree with you most of the time. A lot of women prefer men who lead.
> 
> However, in my last relationship the major issue was that I was expected to put in the most effort in bed and do the pursuing and it makes one feel unwanted, and unattractive. There has to be more of a balance, where both parties are giving and receiving, at least for me. I don't want to initiate all the time, but I do feel like if I initiate, and get turned down, I'm a lot less likely to initiate again. Perhaps that isn't the norm, I don't know.


You bring up very, very valid insight and observations.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> And that's what I'm saying. Men do, and happily btw, most of the work.
> 
> Both parties initiate as is best, the really best of all situations to start a romantic interlude but when the encounter proceeds it's the man that is called upon to mostly, not always, take things to happy completion for both.
> 
> ...


I think if you are lucky your girl will do a lot of the prep work, before the physical, with clothes, lingerie, makeup, and stuff like that. Given the position there might not be a lot she can do at times too.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

And the title is too long...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> This is a sexist post...


Why?

My DW expects, and rightly so, for me to be the first line of her defense in group or social outings, traveling, etc, to keep her safe and keep her best interests my first priority. 

To be her barrier from trouble makers and obnoxious people and sticky situations. To slay the proverbial dragon or take the bullet if needed, you get my drift. She loves and appreciates my being very capable and dependable to do so.

And I'm happy to be there for her. It is my job. Had to do it on multiple occasions through the years.

*Some would say that's sexist, you should let her fight her own battles*. 

My DW isn't a wallflower by any means. But not stand between her and trouble? Not in this life.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I think if you are lucky your girl will do a lot of the prep work, before the physical, with clothes, lingerie, makeup, and stuff like that. Given the position there might not be a lot she can do at times too.


This is my view as well. Good point. But not all of those are required each time for us but our encounters are just as passionate.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why?


It perpetuates a stereotype, which negative ramifications for women.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Well since I very much enjoy being on top I'd say I absorb plenty of physical exertion 😊


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> It perpetuates a stereotype, which negative ramifications for women.


Asking a question to gain honest information with clearly stating there is no wrong answer, for open discussion, perpetuates a stereotype?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Asking a question to gain honest information with clearly stating there is no wrong answer, for open discussion, perpetuates a stereotype?


It was a bit of a joke, but still, I'm not particularly fond of the way you get to your final question... it's the premise. You just assume too many things. But don't let my observation distract you from your quest.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

It really depends on whether or not the lag screw for the swing comes out of the joist (again!). With my rotator cuff problem, it really is easier for the wife to pull out the toolchest for overhead work. Then there's always the argument over who is going to clean the mayonnaise off of the midget - why is it always MY job? It's not really work per se to bellow Klingon love poetry, but it did take a lot of overtime to gain fluency with the language, and no one should minimize what happens when you forget to duck a thrown object. 

So I guess my answer is - it depends?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

If one is unconscious, then no.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> It really depends on whether or not the lag screw for the swing comes out of the joist (again!). With my rotator cuff problem, it really is easier for the wife to pull out the toolchest for overhead work. Then there's always the argument over who is going to clean the mayonnaise off of the midget - why is it always MY job? It's not really work per se to bellow Klingon love poetry, but it did take a lot of overtime to gain fluency with the language, and no one should minimize what happens when you forget to duck a thrown object.
> 
> So I guess my answer is - it depends?


Best answer yet! It incorporates bits of many other responses, which is

"kind of depends on the circumstances of the day" for a percentage.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> It was a bit of a joke, but still, I'm not particularly fond of the way you get to your final question... it's the premise. You just assume too many things. But don't let my observation distract you from your quest.


Truly, and kindly meant, can you expound?

1. What do you understand to be my "final" question and your dislike of the premise approach?

2. What do you believe I'm assuming?

3. What do believe is my "quest"?

I ask in the spirit of you have shown some good insights here and there and for an earnest attempt on my part to understand what your disagreements are and why. Just pleasant conversation. 

Use small words and short sentences. I'm a simple Viking. 👍👍


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

In Absentia said:


> This is a sexist post...


Man, I love sexi posts.

Oh, oh! SEXIST ...

Problem solved with 4 simple words: "F me back, please." And I suppose if you really want to 'lead' you can drop the please, and grab a handful of hair instead. I find that both the request, and the command work quite well. Just important to know your audience, or at least the one you find yourself conjoined with at the moment.

C'mon people!? This isn't rocket surgery. It's all about communication, verbal and well ... non-verbal.

I'm feeling more sarcastic than usual ... which is a lot, I'll admit, @Ragnar Ragnasson. I certainly can't say that your observation is incorrect. There are simply the things within the socio-sexual dynamic that we accept at face value, and for whatever reason as of the last few years, just questioning everything seems en vogue. Which I'm ok with too.

For anyone who still takes the time to read my BS and finds it distasteful, it's ok. I blame cancer. Yes. I pull the cancer card for pretty much everything these days.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Why does this have to be the men or the women?

Like every couple is the same? 

Maybe in some cases it might be the men and in another case it might be the women. 

In another example, take one couple, one time it might be the man doing most of the work and another time the woman does most of the work or maybe they're both doing the same amount of work.

I mean who keeps track of this and at the end of the day who really gives a [email protected]$m. I guess OP does.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Deejo said:


> Man, I love sexi posts.
> 
> Oh, oh! SEXIST ...
> 
> ...


All else is trivial. 

I just hope your big C treatment, if is taking place, can be and is successful.

Strength to you my friend.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> To be her barrier from trouble makers and obnoxious people and sticky situations. To slay the proverbial dragon or take the bullet if needed, you get my drift. She loves and appreciates my being very capable and dependable to do so.
> 
> And I'm happy to be there for her. It is my job. Had to do it on multiple occasions through the years.
> 
> ...


I have wished for this my entire life. I’ve never had it from anyone (man or woman) starting with my parents. It’s not “sexist” rather it is part of what a relationship is supposed to be.

BTW, my exH was a male-starfish when it came to sex, that is when he would actually engage in sex, which became rare after the first two years of marriage.


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## CatOnAHotTinRoof (Apr 27, 2021)

joannacroc said:


> Fair enough. It may not be very PC but a lot of men prefer their wives intiate at least part of the time - I have read it on TAM quite a bit - women whose husbands say they don't feel wanted or desired. I have no issue with that. But if the only time you are having sex with your partner, you are the one initiating, it DOES make you feel unwanted. Like I said, I think there has to be a balance in who initiates for both partners to feel wanted and desired - but others might not feel that way. Some couples one partner always initiates and they both prefer it that way. Who am I to question what works for other people?


I would say it’s 65/35 with me doing all the work. I didn’t initiate often which I switched up recently and it makes a huge difference on our overall sex life from weekly/bi-weekly to now every day or every other day. He was feeling insecure and now he doesn’t. I’m definitely doing more work and take control but I enjoy taking lead and because he can please me in a blink of an eye, which means multiple times in our interaction, I tend to do more work to keep it going and get the most out of it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

What women say they put equal effort in the physical act? None I know. 

I know women say they make effort, maybe equal effort to keep the sexual relationship exciting and present. But never the physical act itself.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

It depends who is on top.

If my wife is on top she’s in control of the show and will prevent me from trying to take over. She is definitely doing most of the work from there.

If my wife is on the bottom, or from behind, then I’m doing the conducting.

I’m in good shape so I don’t even notice the physical exertions until I’m done. Yesterday I was topping and sometimes if I am going at it hard she will gradually slide down the wedge and I will reposition her by kind of lifting her and putting her back to where I get the angle I want. Even with that she was like grabbing my head, putting her legs on my shoulders, moving her pelvis around, etc... such that by the time we were done she was like “it’s hot in here”.

So despite being on the bottom her relative effort was more tiring for her than it was for me. It took maybe 3-5 minutes after we were done before my body temperature really caught up.

I guess my point is it depends on what you’re doing, how you’re doing it, and the individuals.

The other question is, who cares? If it’s off putting to you then get some physical conditioning and then it won’t be an issue even if you’re going to freak town with weird positions.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's the premise. Women will state they put just as much physical effort into a typical sexual encounter as the man does.
> 
> Women say that because it's an attempt to stay on equal footing.
> 
> ...


Would say I exert more effort that wife. She prefers missionary, but even with other positions I am the agressive partner. One thing that surprised me is how few calories sex consumes, typically about 125 calories. Hour of jogging is more than twice that. So sex couldnt really qualify as "work" lol


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> And the title is too long...


Lol. Now you're being petty for the sake of being petty. Glad your spirits are up.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

To the OP, nope I definitely put out more during sex as my wife just lays there. She is always on the bottom so I have to do all the work.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Who expends more physical exertion in sex is a pointless argument. Does a tennis player expend more physical exertion than a basketball player? who cares. A construction worker expends more physical exertion than a doctor - which one works harder? You could debate that for years. Who cares?

Typically women give much more than men in the act, both physically and emotionally. While you're focused on the physical exertion of "pummeling" a woman, did you ever think about what it's like to be on the receiving end of your "physical exertion" wherever you choose to focus your thrusting? Anyway, there are a million flaws in your argument but you can't really argue with economics. The value of a man in the sex act is dramatically less compared to a woman. So take arrogant pride in the physical exertion of your thrusting but it's a cheap commodity. Women can, with almost no effort, get a man to exert themselves physically to thrust and pummel us. Therefore your thrusting is has little economic value as supply far outstrips demand. It's not that we don't want a hard thrusting, it's just a cheap commodity.

Sadly the economic view does not value your oh so tedious thrusting. Just a cheap commodity. A female porn star makes far more than a male porn star even though he's the one thrusting. Men paying women for sex in various ways is far more common than than the opposite. Forceful "taking" of a woman by a man is sadly not uncommon while the opposite is very rare. 

So why this clinging to "we expend more physical exertion in sex"? Seems silly to me. Your "thrusting exertion" is just table stakes. Like a restaurant having tables and chairs. You may feel like you've worked so hard doing us but in the end your thrusting exertion is a cheap commodity that's easily obtained and easily replaced. So why do you even bother trying to build it up?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

"Working hard for something we don't care about is called stress. Working hard for something we love is called passion."

Does it matter who is doing more work as long as both are doing it for the right reasons?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I was certainly a sport in bed when young and able, but if I'm going to ever get off, I need to be relaxed, not performing. If I'm performing, I may be having fun, but I'm not actually getting off. Having women do a lot of work in bed over the long term is likely to make the woman avoid having sex as often because that is not what is fun or what makes her feel affection is happening. 

Some women like to be on top, but on their own terms. The "on top" a lot of men want is sitting bolt upright bouncing on them, but the logistics of that is very difficult. You're usually struggling to keep the man's penis in you and there's no way you can relax at all because you're busy balancing. Laying on top or sitting on top with an armchair to hold onto with the man sitting may be a better alternative for the woman. 

Disclaimer: As always, there are exceptions. 

That doesn't mean a woman doesn't appreciate having sex in a new setting or things like that. 

While on the subject of sex, I recently saw a comment about liking to go down on the woman because the guy likes the juices. Just a tip, if you're always lapping up juices, you're not on the main target, which is the clitoris, which isn't juicy, for getting the woman off. Not to say there can't be some back and forth, but guys who spend all their time doing that are missing the button for most women. Disclaimer: There are always exceptions. I don't want to feel like I'm getting a bath down there, personally.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JustTheWife said:


> Who expends more physical exertion in sex is a pointless argument. Does a tennis player expend more physical exertion than a basketball player? who cares. A construction worker expends more physical exertion than a doctor - which one works harder? You could debate that for years. Who cares?
> 
> Typically women give much more than men in the act, both physically and emotionally. While you're focused on the physical exertion of "pummeling" a woman, did you ever think about what it's like to be on the receiving end of your "physical exertion" wherever you choose to focus your thrusting? Anyway, there are a million flaws in your argument but you can't really argue with economics. The value of a man in the sex act is dramatically less compared to a woman. So take arrogant pride in the physical exertion of your thrusting but it's a cheap commodity. Women can, with almost no effort, get a man to exert themselves physically to thrust and pummel us. Therefore your thrusting is has little economic value as supply far outstrips demand. It's not that we don't want a hard thrusting, it's just a cheap commodity.
> 
> ...


Gurl... Your cheese done fell out of your sammich!


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Gurl... Your cheese done fell out of your sammich!


I can't stop laughing!!!


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just a tip, if you're always lapping up juices, you're not on the main target, which is the clitoris, which isn't juicy,


OMG!! Hilarious!!


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Well, let see. I have to get the basket...hook it to the extra large ceiling fan and get the ropes,10w40, and other accouterment...yeah it’s harder on the man.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

JustTheWife said:


> While you're focused on the physical exertion of "pummeling" a woman, did you ever think about what it's like to be on the receiving end of your "physical exertion" wherever you choose to focus your thrusting?


Yes.

I have actually. I was like man my thrusting is on point I moved the bed like 2 feet.

So I bought some of those rubber things that keep the bed frame from moving.

Then I was like wow my thrusting is powerful and amazing... but... what if it actually sucks?

So I asked the Mrs if she wanted to try pegging me. I wasn’t desiring it but I am prostate orgasm curious and wondered if she wanted to try a strap on and go to town. She was a hard pass on that. So she will never know the thrusting part.

With that said, from the top she can completely blow my mind and have me begging for mercy. So she can top and have me melting down and have all the dominance and power minus the thrusting.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Well, let see. I have to get the basket...hook it to the extra large ceiling fan and get the ropes,10w40, and other accouterment...yeah it’s harder on the man.


Only because then you have to repair and rebalance the ceiling fan. You should go old school with chandelier.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I think my BF definitely does more physical “work” during sex but I also do some as well. I’m gonna estimate he’s 60% to my 40%. In certain positions I work harder, in some he works harder, and in a particular favorite of ours we switch off who is working the hardest so neither gets too tired. But even if I’m not doing the thrusting, I’m doing some other stuff that adds to his enjoyment.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Truly, and kindly meant, can you expound?
> 
> 1. What do you understand to be my "final" question and your dislike of the premise approach?
> 
> ...


Right, my observation is very simple. I just thought the sexual dynamic between man and woman you described is sexist. The man is really in charge but lets the woman believe she is and (white)lies to her, because it's convenient for him... he is getting sex! Most women like to get naked and get taken? The final question is fine, but you didn't need to use the derogatory example. I think I'm going through a depressive phase right now, so ignore me. No need to reply. It's not really on topic.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> But even if I’m not doing the thrusting, I’m doing some other stuff that adds to his enjoyment.


I think this is often overlooked what a difference this makes and also the energy used by it. +1 to the enjoyment increase.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

It's an interesting premise. Wrong, but interesting. Of course the answer is entirely to do with exactly what you are doing in terms of sexual acts. 

I'm guessing Ragnar just hasn't had the kind of sex where the women is doing most of the physical work so is assuming that that type of sex doesn't exist.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Cletus said:


> It really depends on whether or not the lag screw for the swing comes out of the joist (again!). With my rotator cuff problem, it really is easier for the wife to pull out the toolchest for overhead work. Then there's always the argument over who is going to clean the mayonnaise off of the midget - why is it always MY job? It's not really work per se to bellow Klingon love poetry, but it did take a lot of overtime to gain fluency with the language, and no one should minimize what happens when you forget to duck a thrown object.
> 
> So I guess my answer is - it depends?


This is the BEST answer EVER!!!!! Lol!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

When I'm having exciting sex that I'm fully engaged in, I've never noticed. I've just tried to do what would please him in the moment, and if he wanted something else, I would change and do whatever that was.

Is it really a contest? Besides, if your favorite position requires more work for you, does it even count? And I'm pretty sure that "thrusting" is a mostly automatic response when a guy is being stimulated the right way...are you really trying to say that's unpleasant?? Lol!!!

And as far as oral...it is MUCH MORE work to give a guy oral than it is to give a woman oral...so if both of those things are included with the eventual "thrusting" work, doesn't it even out in the amount of effort expended...?

If any guy thinks he's doing more work than his partner and he's not happy about it, why doesn't he just lay there like a slug and see if that brings him the results he wants...Lol!!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> If any guy thinks he's doing more work than his partner and he's not happy about it, why doesn't he just lay there like a slug and see if that brings him the results he wants...Lol!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> View attachment 75618


Lolol!!!!!!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's the premise. Women will state they put just as much physical effort into a typical sexual encounter as the man does.


I have never heard any woman ever express such opinion.



> Women say that because it's an attempt to stay on equal footing.


I haven't heard that either.



> Men accept as men they do most of the work, and are typically happy to do so, and let the woman say what they want about equal effort because it really doesn't matter, the guys are getting sex on demand and smart guys don't belabor the point.


A man can be a smart guy, and have had plenty of sex, yet still clearly have limited experience on lots of things sexually.

I've been with different women who are very active sexually. My first all the way sexual partner (who became my first wife), was an absolute sexual dynamo as am I. My third longest lasting sexual relationship was with a woman who learnt all sorts of sexual techniques as a sex worker in Japan on top of her other experiences, and enjoyed applying herself actively to our play. Likewise my wife who I have been with for almost 25 years is also very sexually active , loves ****ing and is so very game and is an absolute joy sexually. Oh and there have been others who are active and splendid, I mean wow, yet that kind of thing has just been the norm for me.



> Women change positions as asked, or as they want, so the man can access from various directions, various entrances, but the guy is still in charge of keeping the motion going.


Maybe you should try having sex with more different women.

In my experience women meet thrusts, roll their hips, tilt their vaginas, grip and release, etc. I have penetrated women from so many different positions either vaginally, anally or both ways at the same time. and the normal experience is for them to push themselves into my thrusts. To the point that when they get excited they will continue to thrust wantonly, while tilting and gripping internally even when I do not thrust at all. I've had women grab my penis and rub it on their clitoris furiously on and on etc.

I've also had one sexual partner snap my penis audibly with blood streaming out of the end of it when I was 22 (there was so much blood, but I got better), because she was enthusiastically thrusting when on top of me.

All of this is the norm in my experience, what you seem to imply seems extraordinarily passive and rare to me.



> It's not absolute, so I'm not completely generalizing.


It reads like you are generalising, and I do wonder if you have been with women who do much at all during sex?



> But most women like to get naked and get taken, a typical scenario. Again emphasizing the guy is in charge of the in and outs of the whole thing, as a bad pun I know.


Men leading activity choices certainly doesn't always lead to women laying there passively and doing mostly **** all. I mean sure it can with some women, yet this can apply to men as well. Passivity and disinterest are not more inherent in women versus men.



> And performing oral on her. Again, man performs.


Do you think women don't do, or seldom perform fellatio?

I mean surely you can appreciate it takes a bit of effort for a woman to alternately rim a mans anus, suck his balls, take a mans penis in her mouth (sometimes experience a sore jaw). Plus stick her fingers up a mans backside while using her mouth around his head and shaft. Then swallow the mans ejaculate, or hold it on her mouth to show off, before drooling some and swallowing the rest etc. Which has been standard stuff for me extremely frequently, with different women ever since I was 17.

As for myself, I've never got a sore jaw or lockjaw while giving a woman oral sex. Yet I've had several partners experience that, from time to time when giving me oral sex.



> Men typically let the white lie exist without disagreeing with the woman that she does just as much of the physical part of a good encounter. He believes, and is good judgement, to let that white lie stand.
> 
> Most guys smartly don't bring it up, and don't really care. The man should put out the effort to ensure she has a great time. Imo. Is normal.


What lie? Why lie?

I've been banged silly by women, just as much as I've banged them silly. I've been with plenty of women who have had their legs go out on them briefly, because of the exertion that they've undertaken when ****ing. Lockjaw is also a thing, as is a sore vaginas, sore rectums, sore arms, sore nipples (some women love being bitten in the moment). I've also fit my whole hand into some women, I can assure you that requires some effort on their part, and certainly it is more effort on their behalf versus mine and my wrist. There's plenty more, even little things like women kissing and playing with my nipples, or using their tongues on my ears.



> But to examine the human condition from a non judgmental and objective point of view;
> 
> do you think the man does almost of the physical effort required in an encounter, or not?


At the end of the day it specifically depends on the activity at the time and the persons involved.

That said, generally no I don't think a man does almost all of the physical effort required during sex at all.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

JustTheWife said:


> Who expends more physical exertion in sex is a pointless argument. Does a tennis player expend more physical exertion than a basketball player? who cares. A construction worker expends more physical exertion than a doctor - which one works harder? You could debate that for years. Who cares?
> 
> Typically women give much more than men in the act, both physically and emotionally. While you're focused on the physical exertion of "pummeling" a woman, did you ever think about what it's like to be on the receiving end of your "physical exertion" wherever you choose to focus your thrusting? Anyway, there are a million flaws in your argument but you can't really argue with economics. The value of a man in the sex act is dramatically less compared to a woman. So take arrogant pride in the physical exertion of your thrusting but it's a cheap commodity. Women can, with almost no effort, get a man to exert themselves physically to thrust and pummel us. Therefore your thrusting is has little economic value as supply far outstrips demand. It's not that we don't want a hard thrusting, it's just a cheap commodity.
> 
> ...


Cruel, but well written.

Reading this, I realize, I have been sliced, diced, beaten to a pulp...and made small.

Ah! So insignificant.

The majority of men are more than _thick pencil _pushers.

Sigh..


_The Typist-_


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I’m a woman and I’m gonna say no, the physical exertion is not the same. Even when I’m on top I still don’t feel like I work as hard as my husband does. And man oh man am I grateful for his hard work. 😉😊 He is a… skilled laborer, so to speak. 💥 💥 💥 😁


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's the premise. Women will state they put just as much physical effort into a typical sexual encounter as the man does.
> 
> Women say that because it's an attempt to stay on equal footing.
> 
> ...


it’s been my experience that it’s about equal on effort. However, the best sex I ever had was with a selfish woman in which the whole relationship was imbalanced in her favor. But the only time I felt the sex was imbalanced was in the oral dept. with her. luckily I was ok with that.
All my other sexual relationships, I had no feelings at all that I was making more effort.
Even with the ex wife, she was darn giving and such in bed. Not selfish at all there. I would even say if one of us made less effort, it was me. Until she decided she didn’t love me anymore. I think as long as a woman is in love with you, they give as good as they get. JMO


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> To the OP, nope I definitely put out more during sex as my wife just lays there. She is always on the bottom so I have to do all the work.


That sucks


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I was certainly a sport in bed when young and able, but if I'm going to ever get off, I need to be relaxed, not performing. If I'm performing, I may be having fun, but I'm not actually getting off. Having women do a lot of work in bed over the long term is likely to make the woman avoid having sex as often because that is not what is fun or what makes her feel affection is happening.
> 
> Some women like to be on top, but on their own terms. The "on top" a lot of men want is sitting bolt upright bouncing on them, but the logistics of that is very difficult. You're usually struggling to keep the man's penis in you and there's no way you can relax at all because you're busy balancing. Laying on top or sitting on top with an armchair to hold onto with the man sitting may be a better alternative for the woman.
> 
> ...


Interesting and educational. 🙌


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

99% of the "work" is me. However, I hope we are sharing the enjoyment 50/50. I just look at it as extra exercise (the most enjoyable kind of exercise).

p.s. I don't think my wife would claim to be doing any work during intercourse.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why?
> 
> My DW expects, and rightly so, for me to be the first line of her defense in group or social outings, traveling, etc, to keep her safe and keep her best interests my first priority.
> 
> ...


My husband is always there, protecting me. He never makes me feel weak; he encourages me to fight my own battles. But in the back of my mind I always know if anyone ever tried to hurt me, he would make them sorry. Alpha males encourage their wives to be the strong, independent people they are; they stand back and give us space, all the while ready to step in and sort out anyone who goes too far. It is the most wonderful, empowering feeling to have him believe in me and be there for me while still pushing me to be as brave as he thinks I am. I’m so so grateful to him for that. I have struggled my whole life with control issues (abusive childhood) and he knows exactly what I need. He doesn’t believe my physical weakness makes me stupid or cowardly or worthless. Men like that are the best. 

BTW, I’m a Viking too


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

sideways said:


> Why does this have to be the men or the women?
> 
> Like every couple is the same?
> 
> ...


it points to a competitive rather than a cooperative dynamic.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> do you think the man does almost of the physical effort required in an encounter, or not?


As part of my exercise tracking, about year ago looked up calories per hour sex burns to find it only 150 per hour maximum, jogging was like twice that. Seems about right. To the question asked, it maybe depends on the dynamic of the couple, but in our case believe I exert "more" than my wife whatever our position at the moment, just can't help myself. My wife always says I am doing most of the "work", but she is moving just as much as I am, so not sure why she says that.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> it points to a competitive rather than a cooperative dynamic.


It's more of gaining a broad perspective of observations to learn a bit. 

Specifically I'm looking into the reasons the sexual expressions are mostly from the viewpoint of "the woman getting poked, honey please give it to me, do me, come get some, etc etc, where the act is mostly described as, grab me, poke me, etc etc.

And is there really any basis for the act, 90% of the time, described as come poke me, ie guy listed as the doer and woman as the one getting it done to her.

Why is that?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> Why is that?


Maybe a lot of women just lay back and do nothing.

That is pretty lousy from my perspective.

I often like for her to do me back at the same time, or just period, and have her finish things off herself.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Maybe a lot of women just lay back and do nothing.
> 
> That is pretty lousy from my perspective.
> 
> I often like for her to do me back at the same time, or just period, and have her finish things off herself.


I dig in a healthy relationship it's a two way street and the beauty is the variety and sexual relationship remains healthy. I'm fortunate to enjoy that and have to open up my perspectives when hearing about all the one sidedness here on TAM to try and relate.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> I dig in a healthy relationship it's a two way street and the beauty is the variety and sexual relationship remains healthy. I'm fortunate to enjoy that and have to open up my perspectives when hearing about all the one sidedness here on TAM to try and relate.


I find it does wonders to just straight up tell my wife “I like that” or ask her to move a specific way. I can also physically move her around if I want to get her how I want her but usually she does something herself.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> *Maybe a lot of women just lay back and do nothing.*
> 
> That is pretty lousy from my perspective.


Thankfully have never had to experience that dynamic. From our first encounter decades ago, my wife has always been an enthusiastic, active participant, going after what she craves and very obviously enjoying herself. A female just laying there is delivering an extraordinarily disrespectful negative message, maybe intentionally, to the man. Non-verbally conveying "you aren't very exciting or skilled'. 

There was post awhile ago where a man while going down on his wife glance up to see her studying her fingernails. What a turnoff!. Essentially letting him know he was about as exciting as watching grass grow. Yes, pretty lousy.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I find it does wonders to just straight up tell my wife “I like that” or ask her to move a specific way. I can also physically move her around if I want to get her how I want her but usually she does something herself.


Ditto.


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