# LD Differences In Men And Women



## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

First of all, my heart really goes out to the many who post about non-sexual marriages. Reading some of these posts got me to thinking about low drive in men vs low drive in women. 

First of all, I do think it is different for a woman who wants sex from a man who has no desire. That is because, statistically, men desire sex more than women. When a women is rejected, it just seems so unnatural. I, as a man, can't even comprehend it. 

That is not to say that it is easy for a man and I have experienced that rejection. However, in my case, I really don't think it was that my wife has low drive, even though she rarely thinks about sex. In her case there were several factors.

Early in our marriage, I had no clue what her emotional needs were. About the only time I gave her any attention was when I wanted some. When I was rejected, I became very sarcastic and moody (yea...like THAT would make me attractive). I learned that my wife needed me to meet her emotional needs first, then she would feel intimate with me.

I also learned that she has responsive desire. This means that she does not really think about sex, or is really into sex, until I initiate and we get going. Thankfully, once we get going, she can really get into it and she really responds...and by that, I mean that she just does not lie there, but I will spare you the details.

But how is it for a man? I have never heard "responsive desire" referring to a man's sexual desire. Generally speaking, a man needs sex to feel emotionally close, so I can't see how not meeting his needs emotionally (as in the 5 love languages) would have any effect on his desire.

So for all the women on the boards who just want their man to take them, I wish I had an answer for you. I would suggest sex therapy, but that is like trying to get someone to eat who is not hungry. It may take drastic measures.

Deep down, do I wish my wife were like some of you? Sure I do; it would be a lot easier! But life is not always about what is easy. I am madly in love with her and at least she responds (quite nicely), unlike others I read about here.

Just some random thoughts from a guy who doesn't understand it.


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## Needy_Wife (Mar 10, 2010)

I wish you had some answers too. It blows my mind. I never, in a million years thought I would be in this situation. 

The rejection hurts, a lot. I know I may sound crazy by saying this, but I almost wish he were having an affair. At least then I would understand. Instead, I lay there at night wondering why he doesn't want me....


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Romantic Guy said: "But how is it for a man? I have never heard "responsive desire" referring to a man's sexual desire. Generally speaking, a man needs sex to feel emotionally close, so I can't see how not meeting his needs emotionally (as in the 5 love languages) would have any effect on his desire."


My H has very high standards for himself. He has a high sex drive, but that doesn't mean he just "wants sex with someone who is willing". No, it takes much more than a willing woman to make him want to have sex. His drive being high makes no difference. He still will not just have sex to satisfy that drive *IF* other factors are not present.

That means, in a partner he needs a certain level of trust, devotion, respect, love, and sexual compatibility, or he just won't be driven to have sex with her.

If I wasn't a respectful, loving wife who had her own inner sexual drive, he wouldn't be turned on by me. I do have responsive desire, but I have my own as well. He would never want to be the only one providing outright lust and desire in a relationship, that would be placing all the hard work on him. Being that he is totally aware that there are plenty of women who will be just as sexual as he is, he just would never partner with a woman who expected him to bring all the "oomph".

So yes, he will still have his burning desire, as that is part of who he is and it resides in his body and mind. But that desire doesn't make him an "easy lay". He doesn't just "want sex". He wants a vibrant sex life. Two different things. In a way, he has responsive desire, because he desires me more in response to my overt sexuality and my LOVE and respect for him.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> So yes, he will still have his burning desire, as that is part of who he is and it resides in his body and mind. But that desire doesn't make him an "easy lay". He doesn't just "want sex". He wants a vibrant sex life. Two different things. In a way, he has responsive desire, because he desires me more in response to my overt sexuality and my LOVE and respect for him.


Good point. I am very much the same way. I could never have casual sex. I could not have sex with someone with whom I had no loving connection. I just don't "want sex" either. I want to make love with my love, to send her into orgasmic extacy. If she just lay there, I would have to be really desperate to have sex with her. Yes, the intimate connection aboutside of sex is extremely important.

But could that be it with some of these men???


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Well, he has had casual sex in the past...a lot of it (I had some as well, not as much as he did). But those encounters were different than being in a relationship. I am saying he would not partner with someone who didn't bring their own "oomph" to the sex life, or with someone who didn't act loving and respectfully. I am saying he would not just "want sex" in a relationship...he wants a partner who is into him, into sex and has her own sex drive. 

Sex while single was a different matter...but he still had high standards. There was no reason to seduce an unwilling woman when there are plenty of completely willing women everywhere. Some who would happily fall in love with him, too.

I am held to a very high standard....which I enjoy because I'm up for the challenge.


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## donkey_punch (Jan 15, 2013)

If we lived in a perfect world, LD men would be married to LD women, and HD men would be married to HD women. Unfortunately or fortunately we don't live in a perfect world. 

In my case we have 3 years married, my wife is LD and is ok with 3 times a month. I would be ok with 3 times.. a week. Anyways, i think the main difference between male and female sexdrive is due to chemical issues (testosterone levels) and social conduct. Well, the mind is very complex, i wish there were scientific studies about the subject.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"i wish there were scientific studies about the subject."

There are. Thousands of them. Where ya been?


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## donkey_punch (Jan 15, 2013)

In mars. J/k, time to google. I've seen some articles on the web.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

romantic_guy said:


> First of all, my heart really goes out to the many who post about non-sexual marriages. Reading some of these posts got me to thinking about low drive in men vs low drive in women.
> 
> First of all, I do think it is different for a woman who wants sex from a man who has no desire. *That is because, statistically, men desire sex more than women. *When a women is rejected, it just seems so unnatural. I, as a man, can't even comprehend it.
> 
> ...


Not having a go but personally I think the stats are a load of bunk. What stat's? Who did they ask, HD men and LD women?

The first thing to understand is that a lot of the information, blogs, books, mates at the pub, media etc tell an incorrect story.
Women do desire sex, women enjoy sex, not all but more than many men seem to think. Where did you guys get this information that men have a higher desire for sex than women?

First thing to understand is that the desire for sex is gender neutral, both genders have their share of HD and LD.

The whole issue is so complex and I know a reasonable amount about it from first hand and anecdotal experience. The first part of the puzzle to undo is that drive is not gender based.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Here is one article that suggests that men, in general, have a stronger sex drive:
http://www.businessinsider.com/do-men-really-want-sex-more-than-women-2011-7

Here is another:

http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Here is an quote from the study that the article referred to:



> We also consulted leading textbooks on sexuality to
> find whether any consensus existed on the topic about
> gender differences in sex drive, but the answer appeared to be no. Crooks and Baur (1999) dismissed the
> view of stronger male sex drive as erroneous: “A
> ...


The study basically says that men's drive is higher but is based on sample sizes under 1000 participants. In the end there appears no certain evidence either way.

The study also expressed a view that societal norms (as in what people's expectations were based on what is portrayed to them) can influence gender drives.

Personally I think it does a disservice to all when people say that men's drive is stronger. One man's drive may be stronger than the next, one woman's drive may be stronger than the next.

Referring back to your OP, I was simply trying to say that some of the mystery of HD women with LD men can be removed if we view drive as gender neutral.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Right. The drive to reproduce is a human drive, not a male or female drive. 

The drive to have sex is different than the drive to reproduce, and has many other varying factors, and still it is a human drive, not a male or female drive.

The drive to make love is yet another thing. Uniquely human, but not gender specific.

The drive to f*ck and be f*cked, same thing. Human drive, males and females both have it.

These four drives combined in each of us...the drive to reproduce, the drive to have sex, the drive to make love, and the drive to f*ck or be f*cked...can mix into any variation, for any person. It can also change greatly in one person's lifetime, or even change many times.

This is why it is so complicated and not gender specific. It not just one of these drives, it is all of them working together or against each other all in one human being.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Right. The drive to reproduce is a human drive, not a male or female drive.
> 
> The drive to have sex is different than the drive to reproduce, and has many other varying factors, and still it is a human drive, not a male or female drive.
> 
> ...


You know? I was reading this thread. I thought I was understanding until I got to this. I don't know if I understand the difference between these different types of sex. I guess it's based upon your goals? What do you want to get out of it? Is there a difference in partners as well? In other words, if you just want to F, then is that with a certain type of person(maybe not your husband or wife)? Are these within the marriage? Could I replace the term "I want to be F'd" with rough sex? 

Somehow, I got lost here. It seems as though these can be the technique? In my mind, if I want to F then that would mean I don't want to kiss, I just want to be rough and take it without worry about whether or not my partner gets much pleasure from it. I'm guessing you are going to say that is not what you meant. At least you understand what I mean. Maybe there is a disconnect with the understanding of the language used?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

To me, the feeling of the urge for each of these types of drives is different. To want to get f*cked feels way different than wanting to reproduce. Yes, these drives can be different with different lovers (ie: a one night stand versus a spouse) but I have experienced all 4 drives with my husband, and all at the same time really.

In my view, some people may have a high drive to f*ck, but NO drive to make love. Or a high drive to procreate, but NO drive to f*ck. Or a high drive to have sex, but NO drive to procreate.

This is why there will always be some situations where a man and wife are sexually mismatched, yet they are both HD. Because maybe the wife is HD to make love, and the husband is HD to f*ck, and neither of them have any other drives in common.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Holland said:


> Not having a go but personally I think the stats are a load of bunk. What stat's? Who did they ask, HD men and LD women?


Let's assume that two women are in a room with you. Let's call them Julie and Joan.

Joan says her drive is higher than Julie's is.

Julie says her drive is higher than Joan's is.​
How would you as a third party assess these purely subjective claims? The only real way would be to analyze their respective behavior and see how it actually aligns with the claims.

That's basically the methodology when comparative sex drive between men and women is gauged: Frequency of sexual thought. Resources expended in the pursuit of sex. Risks taken in the pursuit of sex. Emergence of sexual desire. Age of first orgasm. Frequency of masturbation --That kind of thing.

Maybe that methodology is flawed in some way, but there aren't really any other objective ways to answer the question

Here's a fairly exhaustive compilation of the research


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> To me, the feeling of the urge for each of these types of drives is different. To want to get f*cked feels way different than wanting to reproduce. Yes, these drives can be different with different lovers (ie: a one night stand versus a spouse) but I have experienced all 4 drives with my husband, and all at the same time really.
> 
> In my view, some people may have a high drive to f*ck, but NO drive to make love. Or a high drive to procreate, but NO drive to f*ck. Or a high drive to have sex, but NO drive to procreate.
> 
> This is why there will always be some situations where a man and wife are sexually mismatched, yet they are both HD. Because maybe the wife is HD to make love, and the husband is HD to f*ck, and neither of them have any other drives in common.


Thank you, but I still don't understand. If I want to fvck, I want to fvck. I don't want foreplay. I'm gonna take it. In my mind, I don't care if you get off. Is that how you like it? Or do you mean you still want the foreplay. Don't just spit on it and go. 

By the way, I have never just spit on it and went. I must have no respect for the person to do that. I never had sex with someone I didn't respect at least some.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

2ntnuf...I wasn't really describing how I "like it", other than when I said I have experienced all 4 types of drive at once with my husband.

My whole point is that "drive" is not just one thing in our bodies. We have sex for many reasons, not just one. The biological reason is procreation, the emotional reason is to make love, etc. Sex is so complicated and we are involved in it on multiple levels.

Sex can occur with or without intimacy. Our capacity for intimacy typically has a lot to do with how our drive is in those 4 areas I mentioned on the last page.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Interesting. Can you explain more about the relationship between intimacy and drive?

I know, even the times I had a HD in my first marriage, I still wanted to please as well as be pleased, it was just a bit more aggressive. I still had respect and could not just fvck.

Edit: HD for me was wanting and needing it 5 or 6 out of seven days in the week. Is that a fairly accurate description?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"Edit: HD for me was wanting and needing it 5 or 6 out of seven days in the week. Is that a fairly accurate description?"

Well, with regard to the intimacy question you asked in the last post, when you say you wanted "it" 5 or 6 times a week, I assume by "it" you mean "sex"....so I'll ask you, when you felt that "wanting"....what was it you actually wanted?

Sexual release?

To bond with your partner?

To express yourself sexually?

To feel validated?

The feeling of "wanting" itself can give you a clue as to where you are on the intimacy scale when you ask yourself what it is that you truly want. Some people can have sex without any intimacy at all...for instance, Lady of the Lake has expressed that she feels no emotions, closeness or bond when she has sex. She experiences it as simply a lustful thing and nothing more. I actually admire her ability to come forth and say that, because I think a lot of people are that way but they sense they "should" feel more of a bond during sex so they are afarid to say they don't.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Interesting. Can you explain more about the relationship between intimacy and drive?
> 
> I know, even the times I had a HD in my first marriage, I still wanted to please as well as be pleased, it was just a bit more aggressive. I still had respect and could not just fvck.
> 
> Edit: HD for me was wanting and needing it 5 or 6 out of seven days in the week. Is that a fairly accurate description?





Faithful Wife said:


> "Edit: HD for me was wanting and needing it 5 or 6 out of seven days in the week. Is that a fairly accurate description?"
> 
> Well, with regard to the intimacy question you asked in the last post, when you say you wanted "it" 5 or 6 times a week, I assume by "it" you mean "sex"....so I'll ask you, when you felt that "wanting"....*what was it you actually wanted?*
> 
> ...


I mult-quoted so I could stay with this.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Well, I guess all I can say is that the nature of your questions gives a glimpse into your ability to experience intimacy (which seems fairly high). But then when you say things like this: 

"Sex is an expression of yourself, isn't it? How much more physically intimate can a person be? What could be a deeper outward expression of love and respect?"

and this: 

"Isn't the goal to make it worth our time? Both get satisfaction?"

...it shows that you seem to think there is a "right" way to experience things, a way that is "supposed to be".

Yet, many people would not necessarily think that sex is "supposed" to cause bonding, or even pleasure, for that matter.

My point being...this is just an example of how DIFFERENT we are, yet how you (just as an example) might think we are "supposed" to be experiencing sexual desire the same way for the same reasons. Yet, we don't.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Well, I guess all I can say is that the nature of your questions gives a glimpse into your ability to experience intimacy (which seems fairly high). But then when you say things like this:
> 
> "Sex is an expression of yourself, isn't it? How much more physically intimate can a person be? What could be a deeper outward expression of love and respect?"
> 
> ...


No, I just can't understand how someone could truly love their partner if the bonding doesn't involve the sex as well. For me, I want it all.  I wanted at least someone who was looking for that whole package as well. I guess there are women out there. I wonder what their sex history would look like and/or if that would have any impact on compatibility?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Some interesting conversations... I just wanted to offer my thoughts on the title of this thread...

I think for both sexes a lack of libido is caused by a drop in testosterone. But testosterone has different significance for each gender, which means sex drive, lust, attraction, libido depend on a lot more than just test. However, the traditional male roles (hunting, fighting, competing, providing, protecting) also have a lot to do with testosterone, whereas I dont believe that to be the case for women (not to say women can't take on those roles either just that the source of that drive isn't based on the same source it is for most men).

I can say, as a LD, low test, guy, that I find it very hard to connect intimately with people in general, I still have lust and sexual thoughts a plenty, but I am not driven to pursue them, I repress a lot. I could be anti-social but mostly I just feel disconnected. And when I take on more manly things, accomplishing goals, succeeding at something it not only lifts my spirit but it also greatly helps me connect with others as well as open up to emotional intimacy and I am sure boosts my testosterone too. Sex is at the heart of it, and when a man suffers from low drive the solution is not more sex and intimacy, not more female contact, rather more male centric activities, IMO.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Lon said:


> Some interesting conversations... I just wanted to offer my thoughts on the title of this thread...
> 
> I think for both sexes a lack of libido is caused by a drop in testosterone. But testosterone has different significance for each gender, which means sex drive, lust, attraction, libido depend on a lot more than just test. However, the traditional male roles (hunting, fighting, competing, providing, protecting) also have a lot to do with testosterone, whereas I dont believe that to be the case for women (not to say women can't take on those roles either just that the source of that drive isn't based on the same source it is for most men).
> 
> I can say, as a LD, low test, guy, that I find it very hard to connect intimately with people in general, I still have lust and sexual thoughts a plenty, but I am not driven to pursue them, I repress a lot. I could be anti-social but mostly I just feel disconnected. And when I take on more manly things, accomplishing goals, succeeding at something it not only lifts my spirit but it also greatly helps me connect with others as well as open up to emotional intimacy and I am sure boosts my testosterone too. Sex is at the heart of it, and when a man suffers from low drive the solution is not more sex and intimacy, not more female contact, rather more male centric activities, IMO.


I guess if you're a heterosexual male and I know you are, it makes you miss women more when you are around men? Hmmm


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: LD Differences In Men And Women*



2ntnuf said:


> I guess if you're a heterosexual male and I know you are, it makes you miss women more when you are around men? Hmmm


No, its not about losing time around women, it's about being the man I want to be thru male camaraderie, learning about myself, my abilities and limitations through role modeling and mentorship, a sense of community with other people who are interested in what I'm in (such as having sex with women, along with other things that appeal to a man) and to just generally get in touch with my masculine side. Because when I do, I function way better in all aspects because that is how biology has set it up. When I function well in all aspects I apply myself to, I have a much healthier sex drive.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Lon said:


> No, its not about losing time around women, it's about being the man I want to be thru male camaraderie, learning about myself, my abilities and limitations through role modeling and mentorship, a sense of community with other people who are interested in what I'm in (such as having sex with women, along with other things that appeal to a man) and to just generally get in touch with my masculine side. Because when I do, I function way better in all aspects because that is how biology has set it up. When I function well in all aspects I apply myself to, I have a much healthier sex drive.



Thanks man. You seem a lot tougher to me now :smthumbup:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: LD Differences In Men And Women*



2ntnuf said:


> Thanks man. You seem a lot tougher to me now :smthumbup:


Awwwwe, thanks hunny xoxo!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Holland said:


> Not having a go but personally I think the stats are a load of bunk. What stat's? Who did they ask, HD men and LD women?
> 
> The first thing to understand is that a lot of the information, blogs, books, mates at the pub, media etc tell an incorrect story.
> Women do desire sex, women enjoy sex, not all but more than many men seem to think. Where did you guys get this information that men have a higher desire for sex than women?
> ...


RAPE statistics

Next.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Hey Trying....guess what? If I could rape a man, I probably would. So that doesn't really mean anything. It could be that the only reason men rape and women don't is because of the fact that a woman cannot force a man to have an erection, if she even can pin him down.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The article is quite funny. Here are two quotes:



> Thus, within heterosexual relationships, men want
> sex more than women at the start of a relationship, in
> the middle of it, and after many years of it. Consistent
> with that sweeping conclusion, McCabe (1987) found
> ...


AND



> there may be a phase during
> which the relationship is blossoming in the sense that intimacy is rising rapidly and passion is high, and during
> that brief interval the gap between men and women may
> dwindle or even disappear entirely. Thus, we do think
> ...


Beyond funny...


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Hey Trying....guess what? If I could rape a man, I probably would.


I'm a little dense with humor sometimes if I can't see the person's face. That's hyperbole, right?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ocotillo....Well no, not really. I mean, I don't have the urge to rape anyone, but if women were physically able to rape men (could physically hold them down and force them to have an erection and PIV sex to completion), then I am sure that it would happen.

I don't think rape statistics have ANYTHING to do with measuring a man's sex drive, was the point, though.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Rape is not a sexual act, it's a power thing. Would forcing someone to have sex with you really be a turn on? (General you, not you specifically!)

As far as LD drives go I personally don't think they really exist outside of medical problems. I believe it has a lot to do with attraction and an imbalance of feminine and masculine energy within the relationship.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> ocotillo....Well no, not really. I mean, I don't have the urge to rape anyone, but if women were physically able to rape men (could physically hold them down and force them to have an erection and PIV sex to completion), then I am sure than it would happen.


I really hope you didn't mean you *would* do it if you *could* do it. I think that's where ocotillo's confusion lies. I don't think that's what you meant.

Actually, women raping men - well, boys - does happen. It usually falls under the category of molestation (older woman coerces/manipulates teenager into an emotional relationship; boy is too young to give legal consent) and statutory rape rather than physically violent/date rape, but it's still rape. It's still horrendous.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> ocotillo....Well no, not really. I mean, I don't have the urge to rape anyone, but if women were physically able to rape men (could physically hold them down and force them to have an erection and PIV sex to completion), then I am sure that it would happen.
> 
> I don't think rape statistics have ANYTHING to do with measuring a man's sex drive, was the point, though.


They don't have to do it this way. They can threaten the man or boy with a weapon, or threaten them with a threat that if they do not perform that they will be in serious trouble or killed.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Well ginger-snap, given certain situations....maybe! For instance, my H and I play rape-type sex games. If I could physically hold him down and if I could force him to have an erection, I am sure we would work that scenario into our sexy play time. That isn't possible for us, though. It just wouldn't work. He would have to just pretend to be held down and the erection wouldn't necessarily follow.

Obviously I have no desire to commit rape in general.

But I am also saying I don't think women are better than men because they rape and we don't. I think if women *could* do it, then some of them would. I think the sickness that lies behind real rape is present in both men and women, but women don't have the ability to act out on it the same way.

MOSTLY THOUGH...I was pointing out that it is absurd to consider rape statistics as if they represent a man's sex drive and the fact that they don't rape represents a woman's sex drive. ABSURD. That was my point.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

> Well ginger-snap, given certain situations....maybe! For instance, my H and I play rape-type sex games. If I could physically hold him down and if I could force him to have an erection, I am sure we would work that scenario into our sexy play time.


Ok...but that's not rape. It's still consensual.



> MOSTLY THOUGH...I was pointing out that it is absurd to consider rape statistics as if they represent a man's sex drive and the fact that they don't rape represents a woman's sex drive. ABSURD. That was my point.


I agree with you, but glad you clarified, because I did not get that point from your prior post. You kinda lost me at "if I could, I would."


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

treyvion said:


> They don't have to do it this way. They can threaten the man or boy with a weapon, or threaten them with a threat that if they do not perform that they will be in serious trouble or killed.


Indeed, it happened.. 

Men raped by Women | News24

3 women in Zimbabwe charged in series of sex attacks on men - CNN.com

these women are "dukun" I think ("dukun" in my country means those skilled in not-so-benevolent magic tricks)


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

How many reservations do we need for a flight to Harare International Airport to get the group rate?


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

john117 said:


> How many reservations do we need for a flight to Harare International Airport to get the group rate?


LOL. Maybe you should break into a hair salon in Russia


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> LOL. Maybe you should break into a hair salon in Russia


by Allah, so it's settled.. women can do it too!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Harare it is for me then. Never been a big fan of Russian food plus Russian women are not my type plus there's some bad blood between Russia and The People's Republic of Farawaystan so no reason to upset the wife


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

but those women in Harare, they are witches, if they are displeased, they will do magic tricks on you, you certainly does not want to be turned into a frog, or having your body parts repositioned (such as penis on face, nose on groin, etc) 

*silly mode on by accident*


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> RAPE statistics
> 
> Next.


Rape is a crime about violence towards women. Your comment has no relevance to the discussion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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