# She's unhappy, and I'm puzzled



## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

Hello everyone. First time poster here. My wife and I have been together as a couple for 13 years and married for almost 10. We have two great kids...a 6 year old girl and a 3 year old boy.

I'm sure this has been said before, but I actually feel strange posting here about my marriage and the difficulties we are having. I never really felt that things between my wife and I were bad at all, let alone bad enough to warrant seeking any kind of outside help. But I am now at the point that I can no longer fathom what my wife is perceiving in this respect. 

Over the course of the last few months, my wife has mentioned to me a couple of times that she feels that we are completely out of touch with one another. She feels, and I do admit, that we seem to get wound up more than we should and bicker about smaller things. She also believes that we are unable to relate to each other well on a personal level. Her feelings about this are so strong that she has been crying most of the last 24 hours because of it. 

We have always been the best of friends, and when we aren't disagreeing about something, we talk and laugh with one another. Throughout our relationship, I have always been affectionate with her, as is my nature (a kiss on her neck while she's doing the dishes, stopping in the hallway for no other reason than to kiss her, etc.). The truth is that I adore her, and I am not shy about being affectionate, but I also am mindful to not overdo it. She is almost as affectionate with me on her own. We never get off the phone or leave the house without an "I love you", and I can count on one hand how many times we've been so angry that we had to literally get away from each other. And although our sex life is strained by having 2 small kids, separate jobs, regular colds and sniffles, when we are together, it really is great. Her involvement, libido, and enjoyment of our intimate time is actually better since she hit her 30's than it ever was. However, she says that the recent lack of closeness she feels is effecting her willingness to approach me for sex. I can understand that.

The distance between us seems far greater to her than it does to me. I kind of see it as an unfortunate, but typical symptom of a marriage that is stressed by kids and work. She has agreed that that plays a part. Not that it isnt worth working on, but to me, acknowledging that is half the battle. But there is obviously more to it from her side.

There has been some bickering, especially of late. The subject matter, however, is usually nothing major. We dont fight about how to handle our kids (in fact, we are firmly on the same page there), and we rarely argue about money. Even in our most heated arguments, neither of us has ever resorted to namecalling, bringing up hurtful subjects as ammo, being vindictive, or violence of any sort. What we do argue about is usually rather benign, however I admit that her perception of things is very likely different. I guess I feel as though if it isnt the big things, then they should be quite easy to solve and/or not as impactful on how we view the overall health of our relationship.

I've never suspected, or been given any kind of reason to suspect that she has ever cheated. Her fidelity is probably the last thing I worry about. Neither of us have ever been unfaithful in this relationship or any prior.

I make it a point in being as much help as I can around the house, including the tasks involving the kids (baths, stories, diapers, etc.), despite the fact that I am working between 44-56 hours a week...sometimes more. Sometimes I could certainly do more, but frankly when Im working 12 hour shifts and switching between day and night shifts every 4 weeks, and she is sometimes working 15-20 hours a week, i dont feel its unreasonable that she is doing more than me around the house. I know that my wife handles the lion's share of household duties and keeps my kids' appointments and schedules in order. But this is the arrangement we both agreed upon when we decided to have kids. One of the main concerns I expressed to her when she agreed to quit her job and be a full-time mom is that she have something in her life... be it a hobby or a part-time job... that makes her happy and she can call her own. I didn't care what it was, and it didn't even have to be profitable. My wife is an extremely intelligent woman who has so much to offer if she were just to find something she is passionate about. She is also a pianist, and I recently got her a decent used console model piano, thinking that that might be the ticket. Besides, she always wanted to have her own full-size piano, but never could afford it. She was always stuck with mediocre keyboards that never satisfied her creativity. She seems to be thrilled with the piano now though, and is getting plenty of use out of it. Hopefully over the long term, that will help. 

She just seems to be in a rut, but this also seems to happen every year around this time. The last 3 or 4 times it has been somewhat centered around a hockey fan website that I created and used to manage. It was very demanding as there was a sizable base of regulars, most of whom I considered good friends, and I used to enjoy being online with my friends during games. Obviously, it was rather difficult to stay involved in the goings-on at the house late at night as well as watch a hockey game. Her feeling was that she felt like she and the kids were finishing 2nd, and that the site was most important. 

Last summer, I handed over control of the website, although I do remain involved on an advisory level. My wife's feelings aside, I voluntarily decided to do this mainly because it had been 9 years, my work schedule had made it very difficult, and and actually I got tired of being tied down to the TV and computer for 82 games a season plus playoffs. So, these days I am more available. I DVR alot of games and watch them later to make sure I am putting being a Dad and husband first while doing what I can to avoid seeing scores and highlights in the meantime. And I can be completely truthful in saying that I don't resent it one bit. I'm glad I did it because of the extra time it has afforded me all around. But here I am one year after the last time we had this discussion (when it was supposedly based on my time spent on the website), and we're doing it all over again. So what is the reason now? I suspect it still has something to do with the hockey games, but even setting aside free time for myself to watch those games is still not enough.

So I guess after all that typing, what Im asking is, what is going through her mind? And why am I still having this conflict? I love my wife and kids more than anything... they really are my pride and joy. And I still tell my wife that she is the woman of my dreams. But I can't understand for the life of me, when our relationship is still so healthy and functional on so many levels, she is telling me that she can't keep feeling like this, and that she feels like she is about to "snap". 

Any help in understanding this situation is greatly appreciated.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I'll take a stab at it.
If I read your post, it seems like you have set up you life that gives you everything you need and want. You have kids, job, and affectionate / sexual wife, and you have a fun hobby that takes up much time and provides you with friendship and companionship. You have it made. But what does your wife have? Her life is not nearly as fulfilling as yours.

I think your "hobby" of hockey has to be replaced with a new "hobby", and that hobby is a conscious effort to provide your wife with an active, fun, pleasurable life. You have to put meeting her emotional needs high on your list in life. You have to prioritize her, and specifically what you have to prioritize is making her feel loved by you.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks for the reply, Hicks.

You are right about me having it made. There's no doubt in my mind. Which is probably the biggest reason for my confusion. Everything I've done over the years has been for both of us. I have always been the primary bread-winner, but I've always made it clear that everything is "ours", and not just mine because my name was on the check. I never make a decision without my wife's input, or without at least strongly considering how it will impact her and the kids. But this current situation makes me wonder why that isn't enough. Perhaps i would understand it more if there were little to no affection coming from me, but that certainly isn't the case.

And you are probably right about her not feeling as fulfilled as me. But she has expressed her dissatisfaction with her job recently as well. She is upset by the fact that she is working in a convenience store part time, when she always had higher expectations for herself. To me, that plays a part in all this. Like i mentioned in my opening post, i always felt that she needed to have something to do that makes her feel good about herself, and that it should come from outside of me or the house. 

I can accept the idea that perhaps i need to make sure i am being more attentive to her. In fact, there are a couple of ways i intend to work on that. But i really believe that what she needs right now the most can't be provided by me. It needs to be something that she feels is worthwhile, and makes her feel good again. 

Fortunately, something popped up last night that might be the ticket. A friend of hers is starting a new band (with reputable musicians) and he asked her to stop by a practice to hear her sing. They would like to do a couple songs with a female lead vocal now and then. She is so excited about it, because besides piano, she LOVES to sing and was a trained singer in a barber shop quartet in her younger days. She still does karaoke now and then to get some practice, but this could be that fulfilling something she's needed. 

Of course, i will be supportive of her as i always have been. I want nothing more than to see her happy again. I know my approach to her is a big part of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Your situation sounds similar to mine before my divorce after 18 years of marriage. She said we were out of touch and would lay around and cry. Like you, we never left the house or hung the phone up without saying, "I love you." Like you, I didn't think the distance seemed as great as she did. I can't think of specific examples, but there were even times when I would think to myself that things were going really wee, and that would be the time she would say things were going bad.

We had been married 18 years, so I thought the honeymoon was just over and we were facing the reality of raising kids and the stress of jobs. 

Now, I will have to agree with Hicks comments. My x told me a few times that she could see why I was happy, I had everything I wanted.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks southbound. 

i am actually planning on making an effort to get out of the house together more often...even if it's just for a walk or a drive to the ice cream shop. But i am also planning on taking her away for a weekend for our upcoming 10th anniversary. We always made it a point to go out to dinner or something for our anniversary, but this would be our first "getaway" since our honeymoon. Disposable income has never been very easy to come by, so vacations just for us or with the kids have always been a low priority. 

I certainly have some work to do. Can anyone provide examples of what has worked in their own similar situations? I'm eager to hear some good ideas...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Given that she is a SAHM, I think it is even more important to recognize your responsibility to keep the passion strong in the marriage. My wife and I realized that her intellectual quality of life would suffer when she quit working for a time. She even struggled even more with depression. It was at this time that she really depended upon me to help her have something greater to look forward to. 

Be willing to support her in getting out of the house together on long dates that are geared toward her fun. We struggled with finances and childcare, but we can often make things work out. My wife and I would go to museums, frequent dates, weekends away, even if it was nothing more than a campground. 

Like you, my wife loves the piano. I'm not sure if you were saying that the one you found was good enough, but we contacted area churches and let them know that we were looking. Sure enough, about six months later, a church was upgrading and offered their old one to us for $100. Later, though, I travelled to a store that was going out of business and bought her a rare studio piano for pennies on the dollar.

My point is that I believe that the stay at home time is a period where we, as husbands, have to go the extra mile. Think of the things you can do to surprise her daily, and weekly. The daily things for me were little meaningful notes, small gifts, and just going on walks with her.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

MightyMoose, 
I'd say you are luckier than most men who post here. Your wife is complaining about a lack of closeness and connection between the two of you. From what I've read in the 6 or 8 months I've been on this site by the time men post here their wives have disconnected at least from the sexual part of the marriage and seem happy to do so. Your wife obviously wants MORE time with you. I'm a romantic at heart, my suggestion : hire a babysitter that will watch the kids away from home, or even overnight if you have family or someone you trust to that extent. Enjoy a nice meal, something you can have delivered, some candlelight and music...and take it from there. No stress, no interruptions, just time for the two of you.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

okay I'll be _that_ guy



too many similarities here that I feel I must say something

these are all things we shared (for me 30 months ago)

-married around 10-11 years- check
-wife in early 30's- check
-wife hitting sexual peak and wanting more and better sex- check
-hobbies consuming my time- check
-having no huge fights but lots of bickering spats- check
-I helped around the house as much as possible- check
-wife having new opportunities to go out and do things with friends without me-check
-me trying to be supportive of her achieving what she wants to do including going out with friends- check
-me never suspecting infidelity, having no infidelity in either of our prior relationships- check

but....

Wife was indeed having an affair




Now I don't want you to think that I am saying to you that she's definitely cheating, because I am not saying that

but what I am saying is to not dismiss the possibility as lightly as you already have. At the very least you should rule it out, so you can then in good faith make the improvements needed in the marriage. Otherwise you may be spinning your wheels as trying to fix problems in a marriage while one partner is in an affair will NOT work.




best of luck


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

Thank you all for the input and ideas. I am going to make it a point to make arrangements for a day together...just the two of us. A museum might be a good fit, as she is definitely interested in culture. In fact, I'd say she sometimes feels starved of it considering that we live in a rather far out-of-the-way area. I know i often feel secluded from civilization out here in the boonies. Trouble is that we are so far from anything, but that can't be an excuse anymore.

AlmostRecovered... It is frightening to see the similarities you mention, and i don't want to be blind. However, with some honest examination, i still find it hard to believe that she could be cheating. She has always been very respectful of our marriage with her male friends, inside and outside of work. She has often asked me about my comfort level...making sure that i am ok. She has never done anything inappropriate (that i know of, of course), and has put a few guys in their place when they have been forward with her and disrespected her marriage. I also would hope that she knows that infidelity would be a deal breaker. I know I'm not perfect, but i have been too good to her to tolerate cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> So I guess after all that typing, what Im asking is, what is going through her mind? And why am I still having this conflict? I love my wife and kids more than anything... they really are my pride and joy. And I still tell my wife that she is the woman of my dreams. But I can't understand for the life of me, when our relationship is still so healthy and functional on so many levels, she is telling me that she can't keep feeling like this, and that she feels like she is about to "snap".
> 
> Any help in understanding this situation is greatly appreciated.


Perhaps this is an area that you two should explore together. You feel like you are getting your needs met, but she is not getting hers met. Sometimes it is very hard to articulate what it is that is wrong - as it is a feeling it can be hard to describe in words or pinpoint to a particular action or incident.

If she's willing, you may want to explore the following together:

Amazon.com: His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage (9780800719388): Willard F. Jr. Harley: Books

There is also a web-site at marriagebuilders.com associated with the above book. Here's one of the articles regarding emotional needs that you may find beneficial to aid you in understanding how you could be so content, but your wife be so discontent.

The Most Important Emotional Needs

Best wishes.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Mighty Mouse---A museum---come on ---get with it---take her dancing, wine and dine her----go back to the way you were when you courted her---put some SPICE in your mge., and keep it there

You also must---talk, and talk seriously about what bothers each of you---and you must have these conversations regularly

You are on a website that delves into marital problems and the results that come from ignorance, unadressed issues, failing to face responsibilities---many of these things DO lead to cheating----read all the various areas pertaining to your mge., and beyond---so you know how to deal with things----it is a very thin line between a sound mge., and a screwed up mess---it only has to take one disagreement---which leads to one outing at a bar, or pub, or social club, where alcohol is consumed, and a ONS occurs---and life is never the same---do not let your mge., every get close to that point---If You Can Help It,


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Mighty MOOSE---sorry I tyooo'd---you are the MOOSE, and not the mouse.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I was a SAHM with 5 kids within 6 years of each other... Going back to school (at approx. age 33) was AWESOME for me. Grown up time, intellectual conversation, goal oriented, etc.... Even if she doesn't know what she wants to go for, she does know she won't get fulfillment from her current job. She could start with the basic A.A. degree, even two classes at a time. The rewards are ridiculously fulfilling. I ended up going into teaching, thinking that would mesh the best with child care issues.... turns out to be the freakin greatest idea I ever had! 

No college nearby? Even online courses are doable, intellectual, and kind of "up" your self-worth. 

Good luck!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I think her problems go deeper than anything YOU can personally fix. You could win the lottery, quit your job to devote ALL your time to her and she'd still be unhappy.

The problem is rarely what you think it is. 

You cannot personally be responsible for another person's happiness. If she isn't happy SHE needs to own that and find out ways to fix it not you.

She is blaming her unhappiness on you (blameshifting) because it's easier than taking responsibility for it herself.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Mavash---why do you say she has deep problems

She has been married a # of years, she takes care of kids, a house---and her H. wants her to run his hockey fan channel---which I would imagine is absolutely meaningless to anything remotely related to making a mge work

He works many hours, and keeps having to switch shifts---I know he must work---but he needs to get something stable going on

When he comes home he wants to watch his hockey games

He knows she is bored---and what does he propose to spice up her life---something really exciting---going to a museum---give me a break

You got a wife who is probably highly intellegent, she plays the piano, so she must have some talent also---and she has subverted her life to her family---and she is bored as he*l

Yes she has problems---she's got a H. who thinks 1st of himself, and his hockey, and who thinks excitement is going to a museum

He needs to focus ALL of his available energy on sprucing up his mge---and helping his wife get thru her boredom

How would you be, when you get up day after day after day faced with---kids, housework, running a hockey fan website, and your excitement is getting to go to a museum

Yes she has problems---boredom, and a H. who thinks 1st of himself, and how wonderful he is----THIS IS HOW AFFAIRS START.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> A friend of hers is starting a new band (with reputable musicians) and he asked her to stop by a practice to hear her sing. They would like to do a couple songs with a female lead vocal now and then. She is so excited about it, because besides piano, she LOVES to sing and was a trained singer in a barber shop quartet in her younger days.


 Your wife is unhappy and your marriage is at a weak point. Having her join a male friend's band where she will practice and go to single clubs at night without you is a really bad idea. Really bad. She is not feeling it for you so she is super vulnerable to attention from other men right now. Either her male friend band member or someone she meets at a club may tempt her while she is unhappy with you and her marriage. Add in alcohol found at these clubs and you have a recipe for disaster. Once you let her join the band and she starts to practice and enjoy being in the band, it will be harder to turn back and tell her to stop. 

Do not let her join the band. Tell her that this is a bad idea with your marriage already having issues. Tell that you need to spend more time together not less. Tell her that the band will take away the ability for you as a couple to have real weekend date nights since bands play on weekends. Tell her that what about issues that will arise when the band needs to go out of town for a gig? 

Also, you have assumed that she has not cheated already. Almost everyone that has been cheated on thinks this of their spouse until they have proof otherwise. Just because you do not have proof does not mean it has not happened. It may be more than a coincident that she gave you the I am not happy speech just before she asked if she could join her male friend's band. This may have been a set up to get you to say yes. The fact that she is rewriting history and making major issues out of small things is right out of the cheaters script. Cheaters make their spouses into bad guys in order to rationalize their cheating. Since no one is perfect, even a good husband, there will always be small things that they can cling onto as their reason for being unhappy. Their is nothing that you can do to make a cheater happy once they decide to cheat. If you pay attention to them, they will say that you are too clingy. If you do not pay a lot of attention to them, they will say that you ignore their needs. If you are alpha they will say that you are too bossy. If your are beta, they will say that you are not alpha enough. You cannot do the right thing no matter what you try to do. Next will come the "I love you, but I am not in love with you" speech; by then it may be too late.

Odds are, you will regret the band decision like no other in your life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MightyMoose, 

Do you spend anywhere near 15 hours a week doing date-like things with your wife? Wheither it’s at home with the two of you after your children go to bed, or a nice romantic night on the town with her… you two need to spend that kind of time together.. just the two of you.
Everything else is second to that…

Your children come next. Your sport hobby comes last.

I also agree that he joining a bad is a very bad sign and not a good thing for her to do. The only way this would work out in favor of the marriage is if you were there with her during all of the practices and when they perform publically. This is how affairs start. I would look very closely at her friendship with this man. It’s not a good sign.

I assume that your wife uses a cell phone. Do you have access to it to check her text messages and who she calls? 

Does she use the computer much to communicate with people?


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

jnj express said:


> She has been married a # of years, she takes care of kids, a house---and her H. wants her to run his hockey fan channel---which I would imagine is absolutely meaningless to anything remotely related to making a mge work


Huh? Who ever said anything about me wanting her to run my hockey website?? What I said was that I handed over control. I was actually fully preparing to shut it down altogether until an existing member of the site stepped up and decided to assume the webmaster responsibilities. 

The idea of me dropping that in her lap in a "dont like me doing it, then do it yourself" kind of way is preposterous, and I would have to be a jerk of legendary proportions to even try to pull that off.



> When he comes home he wants to watch his hockey games


No... what I said is that I am DVR'ing the games and watching them at more convenient times when it isnt taking time away from my family. My kids are in bed by 9pm, and my wife is almost always quick to follow. Not from boredom, but because she has been an "early to bed, early to rise" type her entire life. So I often wait until everyone is off to bed and then watch the recorded game, which by the way isnt easy to do since I have to wake up at 4am for work when Im working days. So I am making the sacrifice for my hobby now...not my family.



> He knows she is bored---and what does he propose to spice up her life---something really exciting---going to a museum---give me a break


What you dont know...or didnt bother to infer from my earlier post...is that this is something she would actually enjoy. Is it YOUR idea of a great day together? Obviously not. But some people do enjoy it, and I had already said that music and artistic culture is something she is interested in. 



> You got a wife who is probably highly intellegent, she plays the piano, so she must have some talent also---and she has subverted her life to her family---and she is bored as he*l


I dont believe this can be thrown completely in my lap. I actually was concerned all along that her submitting completely to being a SAHM would be bad for her piece of mind, and have always tried to nudge her to find something SHE enjoys. Again...something I had clarified in an earlier post. 




> He needs to focus ALL of his available energy on sprucing up his mge---and helping his wife get thru her boredom


My wife is her own person. She is responsible for how she feels and the decisions she makes. I dont control her, and I dont tell her how to think or feel. Therefore, I dont take full responsibility for the aftermath. Certainly, I can do more, and that's why I'm here...to find out what that is. But her happiness is hers to build and create. Whether its persuing music, additional education, a new career, or anything else, I will do anything I possibly can to help her. But I cannot and will not try to live her life FOR her.




> Yes she has problems---boredom, and a H. who thinks 1st of himself, and how wonderful he is----THIS IS HOW AFFAIRS START.


I think 1st of myself. I suppose that's why I own 2 pairs of jeans. I suppose thats why I work as much as I do...so I can blow it on... oh yeah...NOTHING. I dont blow it. It goes toward making a better home and better standard of living for the wife and kids I adore. I suppose that's why I'm here looking to find ways to discern what my wife is feeling and ways that I can be a better husband to her. Because im a boorish oaf who cares nothing for her feelings or her happiness. 

Whatever has happened in your life to make you this bitter and cause you to take such a twisted assessment of my situation, I'm sorry for it. But dont project your bitterness at me. I came here for help because I love my wife and kids with all my heart and want nothing but the best for them. If that's something you cannot see, than that's your problem...not mine.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

MightyMoose said:


> I dont believe this can be thrown completely in my lap. I actually was concerned all along that her submitting completely to being a SAHM would be bad for her piece of mind, and have always tried to nudge her to find something SHE enjoys.


Glad you see what I'm saying. Look I'm a SAHM and have been for 8 years now. Yes it's boring at times but I would never tell my husband I was unhappy and expect HIM to fix it for me.

Now if there are things I SPECIFICALLY want my husband to do I will make that request. But I get the feeling your wife is just making blanket remarks with no real solutions. She just wants YOU to magically make it better and it doesn't work that way.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

To TRy and EleGirl...

I respect the concern you have for the idea of my wife going out and joining a band, but that isnt really what she is looking to do. It might be a song or two in a gig or two now and then. they have a lead vocalist, but would like to do a couple songs with a female lead. She doesnt even know whether or not they like her voice enough to offer her the opportunity yet. 

Also, I have never been, and will never be one to tell her what she can and cannot do. She has never seen that from me, and I cant see it as anything but negative to start now, just when something exciting might be happening. As ive mentioned before...she has never been anything but respectful of our marriage and has come down hard on others who have displayed little or none. 

I have always said that if she is going to cheat, she will do it and there is nothing I am going to do about it. People are responsible for their own decisions, and cheating is a decision. Just like not attending enough to my wife's needs has been a decision. I am not going to go out of my way to start acting like she has given me a reason to suspect when she has never done ANYTHING of the sort. Honestly, considering the way our relationship has been over the last 13 years, and the way we have conducted ourselves, I would expect her to be insulted by any direct or indirect insinuation. I know I sure as hell would be. She actually has been in a couple situations where she had knowledge of someone cheating on their spouse, and I've seen her reaction and her rants about the offender. She would have to be an incredible hypocrite to act in exactly the manner she has repeatedly and angrily condemned, and that is hard to imagine since I have never known her to be hypocritical about anything.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> I have never been, and will never be one to tell her what she can and cannot do.


 All healthy marriages should have established boundaries where both parties agree to what they can or cannot do. If you do not have such boundaries, I do not view that as a good thing that you should be proud of. 

Also, just for a reality check, if your wife started to kiss the band friend on the lips each time she said goodbye to him and told you that it was OK because they were "just friends" would you not ask her to stop doing that? If your wife told you that she was traveling out of town with the band and they were all double up in each room to save money where she would be sharing a room with her male "just friends" band member, would you not tell her that you have a problem with that? According to your statement that you would never "tell her what she can and cannot do", you would say nothing if she did these things, and that would be a mistake. 

One more thing. Although the band gig may start out as a once in a while thing, what happens if it changes to a regular thing where they want her all the time? It will be very difficult for you to change your mind at that point as these other guys in the band may at that point be her closes friends. 



MightyMoose said:


> I have always said that if she is going to cheat, she will do it and there is nothing I am going to do about it.


 Most people that cheat never planned to cheat, but the truth is that almost anyone can cheat given the right situation. The difference between people that cheat and people that do not cheat is observing boundaries.

Just like there is a cheaters script, there is also a script for those that get cheated on. That script includes stating that they will never tell her what she can and cannot do, and stating that if she is going to cheat there is nothing that you can do about it. Both of these statements mean that you will in effect be passive in protecting your marriage. This does not mean that she will cheat on you, it just means that you are allowing the conditions that would make it possible for her to cheat on you and hoping that you will be lucky.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> To TRy and EleGirl...
> 
> I respect the concern you have for the idea of my wife going out and joining a band, but that isnt really what she is looking to do. It might be a song or two in a gig or two now and then. they have a lead vocalist, but would like to do a couple songs with a female lead. She doesnt even know whether or not they like her voice enough to offer her the opportunity yet.
> 
> ...


You can completely write off everything you've said here. Unfortuntately, you could be writing the first paragragh for hundreds of posters in the infidelity section. 

First off, the odds your wife is cheating are low but still about 1 in 5. All the conditions are present for it. Along with 
millions of others who do and millions who don't cheat.

Do you have access to all her passwords to her phone/texts,emails, computers/facebook etc.?

Trust but verify is the only way to rule this out first.

Joining a band would not be an option in my marriage any more than a girls night out(bar/club hopping) or separate vacations, or a job with traveling. I am way to experienced to even consider things like that.

Here are some books that can help. "Five Love Languages", "Love Busters", "His Needs Her Needs" and "Married Man Sex Life" (not a sex manual but the dynamic between men and women) is the most improtant. Here is a website:

Married Man Sex Life

Your biggest problem and hers is that neither she nor you can identify what the specific problem is and that is a real danger.

In the books mentioned above are some tests that the two of you can go through that may give you some insight. MMSL is just for the husband to read.

If you don't see improvement soon, seek counseling before its to late. Good counselors are hard to find so if you go that route don't hesitate to pull the plug on one.

Good luck 

Chap


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Please keep us posted and let us know what works and what doesn't. It can really help others.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I can see your situation just fine---

--You don't wanna listen to info., that can help you that is also fine

But do not come on here moaning and groaning about me or anyone else being bitter, just cuz you don't like what you get written to you----your diatribe about bitterness is not even worth a response---what is worth a response is your attitude about how you are doing everything so well in your mge., and that any suggestions are beneath you----YET HERE YOU ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY YOUR WIFE HAS /IS SHUTTING DOWN ON YOUR MGE.-----

Well as another poster said----let us know if you solve the problem.


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## Sunshiney Days (Mar 18, 2012)

I can completely relate to your situation. Except, I am the wife in the situation. And it appears we are the same point in our relationship as you are in yours.

I am miserable right now. I decided, with a lot of pressure from my husband, to stay home with my almost 1 year old daughter. Probably a good call since we found out I was pregnant with our second child that summer. My children are now 5 and 6 years old. I have loved having the chance to stay home with my children. To raise them. But it is boring. Days can go by without having another adult to talk to. Would I change all of that? No. My children are first and foremost.
However, my husband would come home from work... stressed from something, tired, etc and I still had to do everything. Help with homework, entertain the younger one, make dinner, clean up dinner, give baths, put kids to bed... etc etc etc. He would pop his head in occasionally to say good night to the kids but that was the extent of his involvement. I am a SAHM so it's my job to do everyhthing kid-oriented. I was/am exhausted mentally most days.
Our evenings would be sitting in front of the tv. Super exciting there. He goes golfing about once a week with his friends. And of course this upsets me to no end.... he barely has time for us as it is and then he spends another whole day away from us when he could be with us. And I feel guilty thinking that because I know he needs an outlet too... but when is enough enough? When do I get whole days to myself? To be kid-free? Husband-free? Just to focus on myself? So I have internal conflict there... I want him to be happy, but I want to be a priority too. We have not had a date-night in a LONG time... if we do, I am normally the one arranging it, planning it. OR it is something HE wants to do which is the only reason he is making an attempt.
Part of me knows that I need a 'hobby' but I am not musically inclined, artistically inclined, etc. We don't really have that much money to be spending it uselessly. So I stick with being a mom.... since that pretty much takes up all my time as it is.
A lot of my aggravation with my husband comes from his unwillingness to be a good, active father as well. When I DO go somewhere and leave them with him, I know they are put in front of the TV pretty much the whole time I am gone. I have to nag him to attend any of their activities. Or he will go in spurts where he is Mr. Dad but that passes just as quickly as it arose. I know he loves them... but they are only young once. I see their little faces when he goes golfing instead of their gymnastics. It breaks my heart and makes me that more resentful of him. 

There is no closeness between us anymore. I am tired, sad, and left wanting more. And I am almost to that point that it's not HIM I want more of... but of someone who would truly put me and my kids first in his life. Who enjoys being with us (because even when he is with us physically, he's not there mentally/emotionally). I would never have an affair (who has time for that anyway) but I am on the brink of starting divorce proceedings. The only thing holding me back is that I am still a SAHM with no income and I will be damned if I walk out without my kids. 

Wow, I apologize for this being so long!!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Sunshiney Days said:


> I can completely relate to your situation. Except, I am the wife in the situation. And it appears we are the same point in our relationship as you are in yours.
> 
> I am miserable right now. I decided, with a lot of pressure from my husband, to stay home with my almost 1 year old daughter. Probably a good call since we found out I was pregnant with our second child that summer. My children are now 5 and 6 years old. I have loved having the chance to stay home with my children. To raise them. But it is boring. Days can go by without having another adult to talk to. Would I change all of that? No. My children are first and foremost.
> However, my husband would come home from work... stressed from something, tired, etc and I still had to do everything. Help with homework, entertain the younger one, make dinner, clean up dinner, give baths, put kids to bed... etc etc etc. He would pop his head in occasionally to say good night to the kids but that was the extent of his involvement. I am a SAHM so it's my job to do everyhthing kid-oriented. I was/am exhausted mentally most days.
> ...


How much of your post does your husband really know? I would bet he thinks everything is great. Please don't repeat the "he should know" line. Husbands are not mind readers. Also men and womens minds operate completely differently.

If you don't let him know what is going on, its all on you.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Sunshiney Days---and this is not to T/J this thread---but chap. is absolutely right------You should make a concerted effort, to FORCEFULLY sit your H., down and let him know your concerns

He works, but so do you---you subverted your life, with his urging to be a SAHM, that is a job---if he does need golf as an outlet---he should set it up for you to take lessons during the day when your kids are in school, AND HE SHOULD PLAY GOLF WITH YOU

Bottom line make him listen to you----if he refuses to listen or change, then you have every right to get out of the mge,---also you must know you would not leave the mge. with nothing---you will get half of everything, plus alimony, and child support----that info. alone should wake your H. up enuff to wanna keep you happy and make the mge. work


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## Sunshiney Days (Mar 18, 2012)

I have spoken to him. He turns it around and says its all on me. It's me being sensitive. Me making things bigger than they are. Etc. Etc. He takes no responsibility in our failing marriage. He is the one who is right and has his smooth-talking ways to back him up. After asking him for marriage counseling and him telling me we don't need it, but that I need counseling alone, that tells me right there he isn't out to save our marriage. That everything is on me and our failing marriage is my fault/problem.  If it wasn't for my children and their livelihood, I would have been gone a long time ago. 

Mighty Moose- I don't know what to really tell you as I don't know your wife and what she is truly feeling. I am sure she is bored and is resenting you in some form or another. If you two were truly bestfriends at one point, then fight for her. But, please, be aware of what your role might have been in the downward spiral of your marriage. Don't think it is just her boredom that is causing this. A marriage involves two people who put each other first. Don't do things just 'to make her happy' and therefore, out of your hair. That won't work. Do them because you WANT to. Do them because you LOVE her. I can't say how many times my husband would do something becuase I nagged him enough for them and he finally 'gave in to make me happy'. Do things for her unconditionally... don't expect anything back. But most of all... just love her. Nothing forced. Soft words. Showing that you are trying to see what life is like for her. LISTENING to her words... even the most unimportant things she says can make her feel so important if you validate them. If candle lit dinners seem phoney to you, then they are probably phoney to her as well. If museums are a big deal to her, then by all means, take her there. But be active in that outing... just taking her means nothing if you are not 100% emotionally/mentally/physically present.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Sunshiney Days said:


> I have spoken to him. He turns it around and says its all on me. It's me being sensitive. Me making things bigger than they are. Etc. Etc. He takes no responsibility in our failing marriage. He is the one who is right and has his smooth-talking ways to back him up. After asking him for marriage counseling and him telling me we don't need it, but that I need counseling alone, that tells me right there he isn't out to save our marriage. That everything is on me and our failing marriage is my fault/problem.  If it wasn't for my children and their livelihood, I would have been gone a long time ago.
> 
> Mighty Moose- I don't know what to really tell you as I don't know your wife and what she is truly feeling. I am sure she is bored and is resenting you in some form or another. If you two were truly bestfriends at one point, then fight for her. But, please, be aware of what your role might have been in the downward spiral of your marriage. Don't think it is just her boredom that is causing this. A marriage involves two people who put each other first. Don't do things just 'to make her happy' and therefore, out of your hair. That won't work. Do them because you WANT to. Do them because you LOVE her. I can't say how many times my husband would do something becuase I nagged him enough for them and he finally 'gave in to make me happy'. Do things for her unconditionally... don't expect anything back. But most of all... just love her. Nothing forced. Soft words. Showing that you are trying to see what life is like for her. LISTENING to her words... even the most unimportant things she says can make her feel so important if you validate them. If candle lit dinners seem phoney to you, then they are probably phoney to her as well. If museums are a big deal to her, then by all means, take her there. But be active in that outing... just taking her means nothing if you are not 100% emotionally/mentally/physically present.


Sure am sorry about your marriage. If I were you I would tell him to look at this and show him your earlier post. Then I would tell him its marriage counseling or divorce, so you can find a new man, just take your pick. But thats just me. I know kids make a big difference. But you have not gotten through to him that his marriage is on its last legs.

BTW tell him when he has the kids for the weekend they won't be wanting to play golf.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

TRy said:


> All healthy marriages should have established boundaries where both parties agree to what they can or cannot do. If you do not have such boundaries, I do not view that as a good thing that you should be proud of.
> 
> Also, just for a reality check, if your wife started to kiss the band friend on the lips each time she said goodbye to him and told you that it was OK because they were "just friends" would you not ask her to stop doing that? If your wife told you that she was traveling out of town with the band and they were all double up in each room to save money where she would be sharing a room with her male "just friends" band member, would you not tell her that you have a problem with that? According to your statement that you would never "tell her what she can and cannot do", you would say nothing if she did these things, and that would be a mistake.
> 
> ...


 TRy...

My wife and I do have those established boundaries you mention. We have had discussions throughout our relationship about what is acceptable behavior around members of the opposite sex. And i have seen her defend those boundaries aggressively when someone threatens to cross them. I have also gotten unsolicited info from common acquaintances about her basically publicly humiliating guys who try. And it is for that reason that i think it is unnecessary to start getting defensive or acting suspicious now. 

As for the kissing other guys thing, or sharing hotel rooms... That is just odd. I said that i don't tell my wife what she can or can't do. I didn't say that included tolerating outright disrespect. I give her the freedom to live her life how she wants, but that doesn't automatically mean that i am willing to have her walk all over me.

And she has already said to me that she knows that the singing thing can't turn into an every weekend type of event because my job schedule requires that i work every other weekend. And when I am doing my stint on night shift, it's straight up impossible. This is coming from her, mind you...Not me. But we both agree that there is no reason why she cannot enjoy this possible opportunity just because it probably would have to be done within the confines of what works for us and our family life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> TRy...
> 
> My wife and I do have those established boundaries you mention. We have had discussions throughout our relationship about what is acceptable behavior around members of the opposite sex. And i have seen her defend those boundaries aggressively when someone threatens to cross them. I have also gotten unsolicited info from common acquaintances about her basically publicly humiliating guys who try. And it is for that reason that i think it is unnecessary to start getting defensive or acting suspicious now.
> 
> ...


Until she gets LSD (LOL)......................Lead singer disease


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Until she gets LSD (LOL)......................Lead singer disease


:lol: As a drummer and former band member, I know EXACTLY what you mean.

And in response to an earlier post, we do in fact have access to all of each other's online accounts, email, Facebook, etc, so I also feel reasonably comfortable that the computer is not being used as a resource for anything questionable.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> As for the kissing other guys thing, or sharing hotel rooms... That is just odd. I said that i don't tell my wife what she can or can't do. I didn't say that included tolerating outright disrespect. I give her the freedom to live her life how she wants, but that doesn't automatically mean that i am willing to have her walk all over me.


 It was not odd. I was just smoking you out and getting you to admit the truth. Contratry to your earlier statement that “I have never been, and will never be one to tell her what she can and cannot do”, the truth is not “tolerating outright disrespect” is you telling her what she cannot do.



MightyMoose said:


> And she has already said to me that she knows that the singing thing can't turn into an every weekend type of event because my job schedule requires that i work every other weekend.


 So are you saying that instead of spending the every other weekend nights that you do not work with you, she will be spending them with her band friends as you stay home watching the children? I do not think that you dating and seeing your wife less is the best way for her to get her feeling back for you.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

jnj express said:


> I can see your situation just fine---
> 
> --You don't wanna listen to info., that can help you that is also fine


What I came here for was info. What you offered started out as constructive in your first post in this thread, and quickly devolved into a judgmental dose of borderline name-calling in your second post (your response to Mavash). You declared that my wife's problem was simply rooted in my selfishness and unwillingness to do anything to help fix the situation, when my very presence at this forum indicates that I am seeking insight and do in fact give a damn about my marriage. I took exception to that, and I feel justified in that.



> ----your diatribe about bitterness is not even worth a response


If you don't have some level of bitterness in your heart about this particular subject matter, then I find myself unable to understand where your attack against me came from. You accused me of basically being a thoughtless, selfish jerk, which is not true...and I accused you of being bitter, which you claim is not true. I consider it even, with the only difference being that you threw the first punch.



> ---what is worth a response is your attitude about how you are doing everything so well in your mge., and that any suggestions are beneath you----YET HERE YOU ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY YOUR WIFE HAS /IS SHUTTING DOWN ON YOUR MGE.-----


When I mention the things that are going well in my marriage, these are not things that I have simply convinced myself of. These are things that my wife and I agree on. Contrary to what I think is the common opinion on my marriage thus far, my wife and I actually have a VERY open dialogue, and talk about everything honestly and with respect for one another's feelings. That doesnt necessarily mean that we are always able to come to common ground and/or thoroughly understand one another. It also doesnt mean that sometimes (especially in recent months) that the discussion doesnt become frustrating occasionally and we forget how to communicate effectively. And while I have had difficulty understanding why she has been unhappy lately, there has been continual dialogue about it. Only now am I starting to see things a bit differently, and I take ownership of the fact that I haven't been able to until now.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

you've spent 9 years on a website for an 82 game season, and you wonder why your wife may not be happy? Wow, you are really out of touch. Every moment you spent on that all those years was time NOT spent on things she might have thought were important or meaningful. And that was a LOT of time. No wonder she's unhappy.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

TRy said:


> It was not odd. I was just smoking you out and getting you to admit the truth. Contratry to your earlier statement that “I have never been, and will never be one to tell her what she can and cannot do”, the truth is not “tolerating outright disrespect” is you telling her what she cannot do.


If you are looking at it from a completely absolutist point of view with no nuance whatsoever, yes...you are correct. But I am absolutist about nothing. That would explain our difference of opinion on this.



> So are you saying that instead of spending the every other weekend nights that you do not work with you, she will be spending them with her band friends as you stay home watching the children? I do not think that you dating and seeing your wife less is the best way for her to get her feeling back for you.


Because of my work schedule, Saturdays might as well be Tuesdays. Allow me to explain by telling you how my schedule works in brief...

Monday, Thursday, & Friday - Work
Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday, & Sunday - Off
The following week, on and off days switch.
12 hrs, 6-6 (alternating day & night shifts every 4 weeks)

...So, unlike most people, I get a lot of weekdays and weeknights off. With my wife working part time, we often end up at the house together and alone because my daughter is in school and my son is in daycare (Tues. - Thurs.). That opens up lots of opportunities for us to take off for a day together, or even an evening in the middle of the week as long as we can get a sitter. It is a luxury in my line of work that not all of my time outside of work falls on the weekend. Making extra time for us should not be a problem, provided I make the effort necessary. If that were not the case, then yes... I would expect that taking that additional time away from us on precious weekends could be a problem. If you recall, one of the major issues I expressed my concern over was the fact that for the last 6 years, my wife has had practically nothing in her life besides me and the kids. She not only needs more of me, but also needs more for herself.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

sisters359 said:


> you've spent 9 years on a website for an 82 game season, and you wonder why your wife may not be happy? Wow, you are really out of touch. Every moment you spent on that all those years was time NOT spent on things she might have thought were important or meaningful. And that was a LOT of time. No wonder she's unhappy.


Thank you for that insightful commentary.

I USED to spend that time on that website. I dont anymore. And what little time I spend there now has to do with simply posting as a member (its a forum much like this one) and very infrequently advising the current webmaster who has been running things for nearly a year. As I mentioned in a prior post, I voluntarily stopped managing that site BECAUSE I saw it as an obstacle in my family life. My wife didn't have to tell me that. What I found strange was that even after I gave up my duties on the website, her feelings seem to worsen. There was clearly more to it than I realized. 

And am I really supposed to feel guilty for being a hockey fan? For having something for myself that I enjoy outside of my work and home life? Am I really to be expected to focus every minute of my free time on making her happy? To me, that is the definition of suffocating someone. It is possible to overdo it...to make someone sick and tired of being pined over. My wife is VERY independent on a lot of levels, and I can guarantee you that if I were clamoring for her attention constantly, she would tell me to back the hell off. Now... that doesnt mean that I am justifying my neglect in meeting her needs in the relationship with a fear of overdoing it. There is PLENTY of middle ground to be had. And that is what I'm looking for.

BTW... if I seem to be a bit snippy or short with certain posters, its only because I am a bit taken aback with the amount of judgmental input from some people. OTOH, there have been very helpful posters who have offered good, sound advice and opinions without assuming that im a clueless idiot of a husband. Hicks, southbound, Halien, Mrs. T, Almostrecovered, Enchantment, SunnyT, Mavash, TRy, EleGirl, chapparal, Sunshiney Days... thank you all for being supportive and giving me the benefit of the doubt, even if we have disagreed. You have all provided exactly the kind of constructive discussion and criticism I hoped to find here when I first posted.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

jnj express said:


> also you must know you would not leave the mge. with nothing---you will get half of everything, plus alimony, and child support----that info. alone should wake your H. up enuff to wanna keep you happy and make the mge. work


So, she should threaten her husband with the prospect of taking half of everything they collectively own, along with the kids and money to support them AND her? Am I reading this correctly? And that is supposed to wise him up and make him want to make her happy? 

Sound relationship advice...to repair a damaged marriage with threats and ultimatums. Brilliant. You continue to amaze me.

:wtf:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

> I am DVR'ing the games and watching them at more convenient times when it isnt taking time away from my family. My kids are in bed by 9pm, and my wife is almost always quick to follow. Not from boredom, but because she has been an "early to bed, early to rise" type her entire life.* So I often wait until everyone is off to bed and then watch the recorded game*, which by the way isnt easy to do since I have to wake up at 4am for work when Im working days. So I am making the sacrifice for my hobby now...not my family.


MM, just catching up on your thread and after reading this I skimmed the rest so I could reply...

my advice: GO TO BED WITH YOUR WIFE EVERY NIGHT!!!

the reason for my advice: I know firsthand that not sharing the bed unglues the bond a H and W have, having that time together, being the last person each one sees before falling asleep and the first when waking is probably the most valuable investment in intimacy you have together.

Occasionally the question comes up on this board, "what would you do differently if you had a time machine?" and now after thinking about this its definitely what I would go back and change if I could, instead of making excuses (snoring, medical problems, staying up late to pursue my own personal interests) I would have chosen to bond with her, help meet my needs for "physical touch", who knows it maybe would have meant more sex (which was the biggest reason she said she left, and its not like I wasn't horny just absent from the bed, no matter what strong sounding reason I may have had).


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Moose---do I really amaze you-----good for you, be amazed!!!!!

What amazes me is how you pulled my giving sunshiney info., as to what she would get in a divorce proceeding, as telling her/advising her to use that as threats in a divorce proceeding.---If you go back and read her last couple of lines, from her 1st post---she said she was a SAHM, and in no way could she make it, by herself, as she had no finances of her own----I simply told her in a D., proceeding what she would get----try reading her post again, if you need clarification., to understand what was actually said.

We give information here, you do what you want with it---If you don't like it, you ignore it----but you, moose---If someone says something you don't like, you like to throw out your little nasty comments-----you can comment all you like, but the more you throw out your nastyness----the more I kind of get an inkling, as to why your wife is shutting down on you


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

Lon said:


> MM, just catching up on your thread and after reading this I skimmed the rest so I could reply...
> 
> my advice: GO TO BED WITH YOUR WIFE EVERY NIGHT!!!
> 
> ...


Good point, Lon... and thank you. This had become a point of discussion lately between my wife and I, and was actually brought up by me. It is especially important considering the fact that I work night shift for 4 weeks at a time. When I am on night shift, I make it a point (and always have) to reverse my sleeping habits on my days off. That allows me to participate normally in my family schedule and sleep next to my wife at night. It wouldnt be possible to head to bed together every night simply because of logistics, but the nights of us falling asleep on the couch without each other because we just "got comfortable" are over.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey Moose---do I really amaze you-----good for you, be amazed!!!!!
> 
> What amazes me is how you pulled my giving sunshiney info., as to what she would get in a divorce proceeding, as telling her/advising her to use that as threats in a divorce proceeding.---If you go back and read her last couple of lines, from her 1st post---she said she was a SAHM, and in no way could she make it, by herself, as she had no finances of her own----I simply told her in a D., proceeding what she would get----try reading her post again, if you need clarification., to understand what was actually said.
> 
> We give information here, you do what you want with it---If you don't like it, you ignore it----but you, moose---If someone says something you don't like, you like to throw out your little nasty comments-----you can comment all you like, but the more you throw out your nastyness----the more I kind of get an inkling, as to why your wife is shutting down on you


First off... my wife is not shutting down on me. In fact, we are actively talking about this more since I posted this thread, and A LOT of good is coming out of it. I won't get into all of it right now, because I have to head out for work in a few moments. But it shows how much you seem to think you know about my relationship based on your generalizations and assumptions, and how little you truly know.

Second... you need to go back and read your comment to sunshiney again. 



> you will get half of everything, plus alimony, and child support----that info. alone should wake your H. up enuff to wanna keep you happy and make the mge. work


it is one thing to reassure this SAHM that she would have financial options if divorce was her only viable route and that she would not really have to go it alone. It is another entirely to suggest to her that using these options as leverage against her husband to get what she wants is another, and that's exactly what you did. Now, based on sunshiney's posts, I wouldn't expect that she would be inclined to use such an approach. The most likely outcome of this would be that he would become even more withdrawn after feeling threatened with what *he will perceive* as not only the dissolution of his marriage but future financial ruin as well. 

Im not parsing your comments jnj. You posted them. I am simply making observations.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> it is one thing to reassure this SAHM that she would have financial options if divorce was her only viable route and that she would not really have to go it alone. It is another entirely to suggest to her that using these options as leverage against her husband to get what she wants is another, and that's exactly what you did. Now, based on sunshiney's posts, I wouldn't expect that she would be inclined to use such an approach. The most likely outcome of this would be that he would become even more withdrawn after feeling threatened with what *he will perceive* as not only the dissolution of his marriage but future financial ruin as well.
> 
> Im not parsing your comments jnj. You posted them. I am simply making observations.


I just pray that infidelity isn't what's happened in your case because what JNJ says is exactly what needs to happen in order to have any shot at stopping an affair. Now you may view that sort of advice as manipulative and I agree that using an empty threat of divorce is very dangerous. But clearly stating to your spouse that while you cannot control them you can inform them what would happen if they continue to act a certain way (like continuing an affair or being abusive or neglectful) it would mean divorce. 

Now I'm not saying to spout out frivolous threats like, "You didn't take the garbage out, if you do that again, I'll file!" But in drastic cases where its obvious that particular behavior is very damaging to a marriage, it is not out of bounds to state what will happen if it continues and the problem isn't addressed.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> I just pray that infidelity isn't what's happened in your case because what JNJ says is exactly what needs to happen in order to have any shot at stopping an affair. Now you may view that sort of advice as manipulative and I agree that using an empty threat of divorce is very dangerous. But clearly stating to your spouse that while you cannot control them you can inform them what would happen if they continue to act a certain way (like continuing an affair or being abusive or neglectful) it would mean divorce.
> 
> Now I'm not saying to spout out frivolous threats like, "You didn't take the garbage out, if you do that again, I'll file!" But in drastic cases where its obvious that particular behavior is very damaging to a marriage, it is not out of bounds to state what will happen if it continues and the problem isn't addressed.


Absolutely agree. It has been a clear message to and from both my wife and i that an affair is a deal breaker. That was clarified long before we ever took our vows. While i have said on multiple occasions in this thread that both of us are free to live our lives, it is also understood that if either of us has an affair, that person is "free" to pick their stuff up off the porch at their convenience.

And it's not as though it is a line drawn in the sand years ago and it may have faded over time. Three idea has been reinforced pretty much every time we have spoken about it happening to some other couple. Not in a confrontational way, but as a resolute, common understanding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> You are right about me having it made. There's no doubt in my mind.
> 
> 
> And you are probably right about her not feeling as fulfilled as me. But she has expressed her dissatisfaction with her job recently as well. She is upset by the fact that she is working in a convenience store part time, when she always had higher expectations for herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What if you told her to quit this job that she is unhappy at? It seems to be a source of her not being happy. Then maybe she can pursue something she really wants to do. Maybe she's just feeling down on herself and it's refecting in your marriage and how she feels about you.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

southern wife said:


> What if you told her to quit this job that she is unhappy at? It seems to be a source of her not being happy. Then maybe she can pursue something she really wants to do. Maybe she's just feeling down on herself and it's refecting in your marriage and how she feels about you.


Hi southern wife. 

About 2 weeks ago, we talked quite a bit about that. It basically would come down to financials. She says she wants to leave this job, but is not yet ready to take the leap. We are now working on a way to reduce our expenses even further so the prospect of her quitting her job and pursuing something more satisfying is closer to reality. 

It's not a though we couldn't make ends met without her job. We could, but it would be far harder to save and cover unexpected large bills...such as a major car repair. It would also mean that i would probably end up working more OT, which i know for a fact bothers her a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

In my last dying breath here on this thread, I never at any point suggested she tell him anything----read again----the statement was---"that info alone"---where did I tell her to use it---he would get that info from an atty, from the internet, from D codes---from friends---from anyone----stop making your wild assumptions


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

MightyMoose said:


> Hi southern wife.
> 
> About 2 weeks ago, we talked quite a bit about that. It basically would come down to financials. She says she wants to leave this job, but is not yet ready to take the leap. We are now working on a way to reduce our expenses even further so the prospect of her quitting her job and pursuing something more satisfying is closer to reality.
> 
> ...


So if you can manage to make ends meet, why not tell her to go ahead and pull the plug on that job that she is not happy at. That way she can put her time into finding something that will make her happy. If you have to work some OT to make up the difference, you both have to realize that this solution is only temporary and let her know that you'lll do what it takes for her to be happy. Apparently, she's not happy at her job, yet also not happy with your OT, but something has to give.....


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

southern wife said:


> So if you can manage to make ends meet, why not tell her to go ahead and pull the plug on that job that she is not happy at. That way she can put her time into finding something that will make her happy. If you have to work some OT to make up the difference, you both have to realize that this solution is only temporary and let her know that you'lll do what it takes for her to be happy. Apparently, she's not happy at her job, yet also not happy with your OT, but something has to give.....


Well, making ends meet and being able to get other necessary expenses taken care of are different in my mind. For instance, we would have no trouble paying bills, but a new oil furnace is a must this summer...and almost certainly wouldnt happen without the extra income.

In any case, I have told her that when she is ready to leave that job, I am ok with it. And not in a "if you must, then i'll deal with it" kind of way. She has thanked me a couple of times since that discussion for letting her know that I would be ok with her quitting, and that it gives her some piece of mind. I imagine it would since it gives her the guilt-free option to get out of there if things really get too bad to handle. Her feeling right now is that she would be unhappier with me away from home more than if she were to continue working. The luxury she has now is that she gets scheduled often for 4-5 hour shifts, and still has a good portion of her day either for us to spend together or to get other stuff done. That wouldnt be so easy if i were to work OT to cover the loss, since I have to work at least an 8 hour shift. Shortly thereafter, kids are home and attention shifts.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

jnj express said:


> In my last dying breath here on this thread, I never at any point suggested she tell him anything----read again----the statement was---"that info alone"---where did I tell her to use it---he would get that info from an atty, from the internet, from D codes---from friends---from anyone----stop making your wild assumptions


I'm not the one who was making wild assumptions in this thread. 

As for the "that info alone" statement...I'm sure you know of what your original intentions were. However, you were more than unclear when trying to get it across on this forum. The way you framed your statement made it easy to mistake your meaning. And I will admit that my defensiveness after being attacked likely had something to do with my interpretation of it. I also know, from personally running a forum for a number of years, that it is VERY easy to be misunderstood when putting your thoughts across in written word. As a result, I'm personally very careful and deliberate when I post anything in a forum, write an email, or the like. 

But my point is that I'm sure her husband is perfectly aware of what could be the ultimate financial outcome. I'm sure he has plenty of coworkers and/or friends who have their own stories (true or untrue) of how they've been "taken to the cleaners" by an ex. But those stories havent changed the way he has approached his marriage or made him take her concerns more seriously. Unfortunately, if the prospect of being divorced and having to financially support his ex-wife and children while being on the outside looking in hasn't changed his outlook, that angle will never work with him. sunshiney's best chance to get through to him is to try to appeal to his sensibilities. 

With that said, I am also done with that subject. I've spent enough energy on it.


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## MightyMoose (Mar 16, 2012)

So, here is a bit of an update. I actually wanted to post this yesterday, but had no opportunity. 

First of all, I want to again thank those of you who have been so much help. I want you to know that I appreciate what this forum offers...the kind of open discussion and advice I was in need of. 

The wife and I spoke quite a bit more about all of this, and it seems like we have made some progress. 

We had had plans for a couple of months to go to a friend's house for a big St. Patty's Day party on Saturday night. She had mentioned before that she would like me to take a vacation day for the following day. Unfortunately, the hangup came with the fact that the party was being held on a weekend I was scheduled to work (Sat, Sun, Mon.). Since I've only been at this job for a year and a half, I have very few vacation days and always prefer to try to get the most time off with them that I can. For instance, if I plan it right, I can get 7 days off by using just 2 vacation days, or 11 off with 4. So I was having a tough time reconciling the idea of taking a day off (Sunday) right in the middle of that weekend. My plan was to go to the party, and go in 2 hours late the next morning so we wouldnt have to leave the party early. 

She was still upset though, mainly because the day after the party was as important to her (if not more so) than the evening of the party. I clearly failed to see this point, until I started talking about the situation here. 

So I took a number of the suggestions here to heart. As we were getting ready for the party, I took her aside and told her that I was blowing off work for the next day, and that I was looking forward to spending Sunday morning with her instead. She asked me about the money we were going to lose, and I told here that if it matters that much to us, then I will make it up with a day of OT. 

My next move was to apologize for not understanding or hearing her concerns, and for not making more of my time available for her. I said that I never intended to put her on the back burner, but that that was what I had done and I know it. She broke down and cried, and you could see the relief in her eyes. Then she jokingly cursed me for making her cry right after she had done her eye makeup. 

We had a blast at the party, came home, and passionately made love both that night and the next morning. Fortunately, our passion in the bedroom had never waned, but the frequency had suffered. Breakfast was next, followed by a little perusing around the local car lots (we're looking to buy). After the kids went to bed, it was downstairs to the TV room for a movie and some more time together. 

So this was clearly what she had been looking for. She even said on Sunday that she knew that nothing changes overnight, but that she feels so much better already. Like she did just a few years ago. She said she was so torn over the situation because she knows that I've never had a bad intention in my heart, but she couldnt deny what she felt. She only hoped that I would somehow come to understand her feelings. And to see her face as she said that made me melt. The fact is that even as i've been guilty of not attending to her emotional needs, I've always adored her. Always. And I've only ever wanted her to be happy with me and our life together. Now the onus is on me to not forget how to attend to her needs or how to listen when she's telling me what she needs. 

I also asked one thing of her. And that was for her to really concentrate on what she wants to do for herself. Whether its quitting her job and eventually going back to school for a new career, or if its music, or anything else. I reiterated how important I felt it was that she work toward having something gratifying in her life besides me and the kids. She is a terribly smart and talented woman who has just had a hard time finding her niche. The piano I bought for her seems to have really done her good, as she is regularly learning new songs and regaining her "feel" for the keys, as she puts it. Maybe that's it...maybe not. But I'll let her decide that. But whatever it turns out to be, I will support her every step of the way.


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