# I think the 180 caused my divorce.



## jlcrome (Nov 5, 2017)

I will keep it short married over 9 years typical marriage problems. My wife gave me 1 week advance that she was separating. The day of her leaving I just left for hours so I won't be around. I finally came back home as she was bout to leave. We crossed paths I act like no big deal told her I going to cut the grass thats it. Went 180 big time for 3 weeks then past 3 months small talk here and there. Now bout 4 and half months in we talk do small things together like eat out. Today she's like nothing change blah blah blah. It's because I did't try to stop her from leaving. But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay. 

But that has always been my dilemma with her. She always counter something with something. Like "well if that didn't happen then I would of done such and such". But if I would appease her differently she counters back the opposite. Sort of like "if you do xyz then this will occur" but I do the xyz now she's not happy with that either.. She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick. 

All i gotta say is 180 is bs it had no effect in my case. But in some respect the 180 gave me much needed time to get her ass off my mind. Other than that it is useless.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The 180 is not designed to get your wife back but allow you to heal and move on.

The 180 is not your problem. She divorced you and yet you try and be friends with her? 

Sounds like you have codependency issues.

Nice for her but you'll just stay in this unless you cut her off.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

jlcrome said:


> I will keep it short married over 9 years typical marriage problems. My wife gave me 1 week advance that she was separating. The day of her leaving I just left for hours so I won't be around. I finally came back home as she was bout to leave. We crossed paths I act like no big deal told her I going to cut the grass thats it. Went 180 big time for 3 weeks then past 3 months small talk here and there. Now bout 4 and half months in we talk do small things together like eat out. Today she's like nothing change blah blah blah. It's because I did't try to stop her from leaving. But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay.
> But that has always been my dilemma with her. She always counter something with something. Like "well if that didn't happen then I would of done such and such". But if I would appease her differently she counters back the opposite. Sort of like "if you do xyz then this will occur" but I do the xyz now she's not happy with that either.. She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick.
> All i gotta say is 180 is bs it had no effect in my case. But in some respect the 180 gave me much needed time to get her ass off my mind. Other than that it is useless.


the 180 is a tool used to detach from a cheating spouse. it is not possible to control another person. sometimes, the 180 causes the spouse to realize that they miss the partner that they are leaving or cheating on, but not always. 

the only thing you can count on from the 180 is that it will get you used to not interacting with your partner. seems like it did just that for you. im not sure what your story is though. maybe your wife already felt like you had checked out and was already used to living with out you?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jlcrome said:


> I will keep it short married over 9 years typical marriage problems. My wife gave me 1 week advance that she was separating. The day of her leaving I just left for hours so I won't be around. I finally came back home as she was bout to leave. We crossed paths I act like no big deal told her I going to cut the grass thats it. Went 180 big time for 3 weeks then past 3 months small talk here and there. Now bout 4 and half months in we talk do small things together like eat out. Today she's like nothing change blah blah blah. It's because I did't try to stop her from leaving. But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay.
> But that has always been my dilemma with her. She always counter something with something. Like "well if that didn't happen then I would of done such and such". But if I would appease her differently she counters back the opposite. Sort of like "if you do xyz then this will occur" but I do the xyz now she's not happy with that either.. She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick.
> All i gotta say is 180 is bs it had no effect in my case. But in some respect the 180 gave me much needed time to get her ass off my mind. Other than that it is useless.


Let me get this straight. You were married for 9 years, but you want to blame it on 3 weeks? Nah.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jlcrome said:


> I will keep it short married over 9 years typical marriage problems. My wife gave me 1 week advance that she was separating. The day of her leaving I just left for hours so I won't be around. I finally came back home as she was bout to leave. We crossed paths I act like no big deal told her I going to cut the grass thats it. Went 180 big time for 3 weeks then past 3 months small talk here and there. Now bout 4 and half months in we talk do small things together like eat out. Today she's like nothing change blah blah blah. It's because I did't try to stop her from leaving. But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay.
> 
> But that has always been my dilemma with her. She always counter something with something. Like "well if that didn't happen then I would of done such and such". But if I would appease her differently she counters back the opposite. Sort of like "if you do xyz then this will occur" but I do the xyz now she's not happy with that either.. She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick.
> 
> All i gotta say is 180 is bs it had no effect in my case. But in some respect the 180 gave me much needed time to get her ass off my mind. Other than that it is useless.


Why did you go 180 on her? As everyone else said, the 180 is not going to save any marriage.

Read the 180 link in my signature block. It states that this is what you do when your spouse is in an active affair. You do it until they either 1) end the affair, go no contact with their affair partner and agree to reconcile or 2) you fall out of love, just move on and file for divorce.

You cannot fix a marriage if you are not talking to your spouse. All you did by doing the 180 is to tell here that you did not give a hoot if she left.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jlcrome said:


> I will keep it short married over 9 years typical marriage problems. My wife gave me 1 week advance that she was separating. The day of her leaving I just left for hours so I won't be around. I finally came back home as she was bout to leave. We crossed paths I act like no big deal told her I going to cut the grass thats it. Went 180 big time for 3 weeks then past 3 months small talk here and there. Now bout 4 and half months in we talk do small things together like eat out. Today she's like nothing change blah blah blah. It's because I did't try to stop her from leaving. But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay.
> 
> But that has always been my dilemma with her. She always counter something with something. Like "well if that didn't happen then I would of done such and such". But if I would appease her differently she counters back the opposite. Sort of like "if you do xyz then this will occur" but I do the xyz now she's not happy with that either.. She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick.
> 
> All i gotta say is 180 is bs it had no effect in my case. But in some respect the 180 gave me much needed time to get her ass off my mind. Other than that it is useless.


That is what the 180 is for. To get her off your mind and help you detach also to show you will be just fine without her. Like you said it really doesn’t matter what you do, she turns it back onto you. If you chased her and begged she would have said you didn’t give me any space and drove me away.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The 180 is meant for detachment for you. Sometimes it does wake a spouse up but you can't depend on that. Maybe your wife wanted you to chase her. Or maybe she would blame you for the outcome regardless. Who knows. But the blame shouldn't go on the 180.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

jlcrome said:


> I will keep it short married over 9 years typical marriage problems. My wife gave me 1 week advance that she was separating. The day of her leaving I just left for hours so I won't be around. I finally came back home as she was bout to leave. We crossed paths I act like no big deal told her I going to cut the grass thats it. Went 180 big time for 3 weeks then past 3 months small talk here and there. Now bout 4 and half months in we talk do small things together like eat out. Today she's like nothing change blah blah blah. It's because I did't try to stop her from leaving. But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay.
> 
> But that has always been my dilemma with her. She always counter something with something. Like "well if that didn't happen then I would of done such and such". But if I would appease her differently she counters back the opposite. Sort of like "if you do xyz then this will occur" but I do the xyz now she's not happy with that either.. She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick.
> 
> All i gotta say is 180 is bs it had no effect in my case. But in some respect the 180 gave me much needed time to get her ass off my mind. Other than that it is useless.




She always intended to leave you. She’s just using you not stopping her as an excuse. I believe people refer to it here as ‘gaslighting’?


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Just my opinion, but from the sounds of it, your wife or stbxw likes to feed you **** sandwiches and you like the taste.

The 180 is a tool, nothing more. It will never fix the dysfunction in your marriage. It helps you to move on.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She needs a dom. Learn to spank.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

jlcrome said:


> But that has always been my dilemma with her. She always counter something with something. Like "well if that didn't happen then I would of done such and such". But if I would appease her differently she counters back the opposite. Sort of like "if you do xyz then this will occur" but I do the xyz now she's not happy with that either.. She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick.


So, if you'd have begged and pleaded she'd have said she was divorcing you because you're weak. She left because she wanted to leave.


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## Rhubarb (Dec 1, 2017)

jlcrome said:


> Now bout 4 and half months in we talk do small things together like eat out. Today she's like nothing change blah blah blah. It's because I did't try to stop her from leaving. But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay.


I don't know about this "180" stuff but it sounds to me like you were still too much connected with her. If you are separated why are you eating out with her? Possibly you were sending her a needy vibe whether you realized it or not. If you're separated, you are separated. She made that choice. You don't need to socialize with her or see her at all unless it's necessary business. She needs to see what it's like not being married to you. If she comes to you and wants to talk seriously about reconciliation then she should make that move. Otherwise she doesn't have socialization privileges with you. You go on with your life without her.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Why did you go 180 on her? As everyone else said, the 180 is not going to save any marriage.
> 
> Read the 180 link in my signature block. It states that this is what you do when your spouse is in an active affair. You do it until they either 1) end the affair, go no contact with their affair partner and agree to reconcile or 2) you fall out of love, just move on and file for divorce.
> 
> You cannot fix a marriage if you are not talking to your spouse. All you did by doing the 180 is to tell here that you did not give a hoot if she left.


*I agree! Unless your spouse is found to be in a full-fledged affair, "the 180" is really of no consequence! 

If they are found to be in any way unfaithful, The it is a very good tool to effect the impending demise of the marital relationship. 

Now there is still a significant number of people who might opt to reconcile under such circumstances, and that is their business. But by and large, the lions share of those attempts roved fruitless!*


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

The 180 is to help you detach. Sometimes it can snap a partner into fighting for the relationship. 

Your wife leaving with only a 1 week notice means she was planning this for a while. Most likely was involved with someone else which strengthened her resolve to leave.

If she left you like that after 9 years, why are you even speaking to her. She should just be someone you used to know. Not someone you have a meal with. It's over, cut her out of your life so you can heal.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

jlcrome said:


> I will keep it short married over 9 years typical marriage problems.




Btw when you say ‘typical marriage problems’, what exactly do you mean? Why was she leaving you? 
There is nothing ‘typical’ about marriage problems.



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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

jlcrome said:


> married over 9 years typical marriage problems. My wife gave me 1 week advance that she was separating.


 Your not heading towards divorce because of the 180. Your heading towards divorce because your wife gave you only “1week advanced that she was separating” and moving out, which means that contrary to your understanding you were have more than “typical marriage problems”.



jlcrome said:


> But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay.





jlcrome said:


> She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick.


 Since “she flip flops” such that “no matter how you spin it” you always “come out with a short stick”, why on earth would you believe her that she is divorcing you because you did not beg and plead for her to stay? She was ending the marriage and is now trying to falsely blame shift it on to you.

Have you researched to see if there is a secret other man (“OM”) in her life? A major study showed that most cheating goes undetected by the cheated on spouse even if the cheater leaves their spouse for the affair partner. I ask this because she has been spinning you to always be in the wrong no matter what you do “all the time in the past year”, which is typical cheater behavior while in an affair. There was a reason that she moved out without giving you a fair chance to work things out, and that is often the existence of an affair partner such that she does not want to try to work things out with you.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm with @TRy . This has exit affair written all over it. She has to blame you so she can alleviate herself of any guilt. She doesn't want family and friends to know that her whoring broke up the marriage. Much easier to blame you. I mean, look at the way you loaded the dishwasher, left your shoes out, or whatever she beotched you out for.

Regardless. Now is the time for a true 180. Leave her in the dust.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

No contact is only part of the 180. The 180 is designed to get YOU to focus on YOU. It is also not designed to save a marriage or any other relationship. From the sounds of it you went no contact but didn't focus on fixing yourself. You need to fix yourself.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

I wrote the following in an old thread about the 180, AKA the Last Resort Technique (LRT)... still relevant me thinks!

So here comes the the list of do's and donts in question.

Now ask yourself with every rule... is it more likely that it will bring your wife back?

Or will you alienate yourself more from her by applying it? And doing so, somehow making yourself into a WAS... ready to take on the world, new and better relationships etc...

Wouldn't that be ironic?

So here goes. Personal comments in red.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!It would turn other women off. And no reasoning with the wife people!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.Yup. Alienate wife by communicating as little as possible. And then you hang up.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!No marriage books for your wife. God forbid, she might learn something.

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.Even better: stay away from her all together.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.No future for you. Courtesy of the Sex Pistols.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.Get NO help. Nice.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.Sexy as hell to other women you mean.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". Another love language bites the dust.

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. And another one.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)Only distracts you from your real mission: getting out yourself.

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)Never say ILY to somebody you're not supposed to love.

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.She will probably ridicule it anyway. But other women WILL notice!

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband... Yeah get away from wife and meet some new specimens.

15. When at home with your spouse, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Scarcity of words. Yup.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.Behave as independently as possible.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.Oh you are! Without that is.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
Remember you're doing this for you, not her.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.Act happy. She's leaving you.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.No talk of marriage when it's in danger. Makes sense.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.Heaven forbid, this may lead to communication. Run!

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Don't argue at all. Told you already.

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!No it won't. Pull back enough and YOU will be gone, that's what.

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.Spouse says she's out and wants a divorce. Listen to her. She means it.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).Walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.Exactly.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.And for next relationships.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.Had that one already.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.So you listen at last and anything she says you consider a lie.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.No contact.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.Better to drink at home.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
_________________________



So what do you think?

Are these rules REALLY meant to lure the WAS back? And does that ever work anyway?

Or do they produce quite the opposite effect, i.e. alienate the LBS from his WAS so he'll be back in the saddle as fast as possible (and there's all kind of saddles around )?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

jlcrome said:


> I will keep it short married over 9 years typical marriage problems. My wife gave me 1 week advance that she was separating. The day of her leaving I just left for hours so I won't be around. I finally came back home as she was bout to leave. We crossed paths I act like no big deal told her I going to cut the grass thats it. Went 180 big time for 3 weeks then past 3 months small talk here and there. Now bout 4 and half months in we talk do small things together like eat out. Today she's like nothing change blah blah blah. It's because I did't try to stop her from leaving. But the 180 tells me not to to beg, plead and go no-contact stuff like that I followed it to a tee. *Now I get the impression from her I should of begged her to stay.*
> 
> But that has always been my dilemma with her. She always counter something with something. Like "well if that didn't happen then I would of done such and such". But if I would appease her differently she counters back the opposite. Sort of like "if you do xyz then this will occur" but I do the xyz now she's not happy with that either.. She flip flops this all the time in the past year. No matter how you spin it I come out with a short stick.
> 
> All i gotta say is 180 is bs it had no effect in my case. But in some respect the 180 gave me much needed time to get her ass off my mind. Other than that it is useless.


:slap:

And the whole reason the 180 exists in the first place is because too many men have no bloody self-respect. It's not there to get her back, it's not there to save your marriage. 

It's there to win you back your self-respect and the respect from your spouse but looks like you threw it all away after 3 weeks and you used it as some sort of game to get your wife back instead of what it's supposed to be. Doesn't look like you followed it to a tee at all.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> She needs a dom. Learn to spank.


:rofl:



MJJEAN said:


> So, if you'd have begged and pleaded she'd have said she was divorcing you because you're weak. She left because she wanted to leave.


Aye, not to mention OP would lose even more respect.

Why people beg and plead is beyond me, do they simply not know how pathetic it is?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@jlcrome

Your first post on TAM was your "360" theory to salvaging marriages. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/showthread.php?t=400066. 
You crowed about the excellent results you were seeing 5 weeks post separation. People who posted on that thread warned you that what you were doing was a warped version of the 180 and would most likely end your marriage. Why would you not take their advice?

You've also started other threads on TAM where you were asked point blank what the issues were in your marriage. You have never answered which raises many red flags. What were the problems? You've only been married a handful of years. 

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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Lila said:


> @jlcrome
> 
> Your first post on TAM was your "360" theory to salvaging marriages. marriage 360 - Talk About Marriage.
> You crowed about the excellent results you were seeing 5 weeks post separation. People who posted on that thread warned you that what you were doing was a warped version of the 180 and would most likely end your marriage. Why would you not take their advice?
> ...


I have nothing to add, just saw your name pop up after leaving TAM for 7.2 years, hope all is well @Lila :smthumbup:


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

It doesn't sound like you did a real 180, but looks like you're in Pick Me mode.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You have grossly misunderstood the purpose of the 180. 

The 180 is meant to tear the bandaid off so that you do not continue to be used and manipulated by someone cheating on you or to keep tearing the wound open again and again by chasing after someone who has left you. 

It is a means to move on from a dead or toxic relationship as efficiently as possible. 

As the others have pointed out, it is NOT a means to get someone back. 


IMHO both of you are game players and manipulators. Neither of you are displaying adult relationship skills or responsibility. 

If your intent and goal was to address and correct the problems and establish a happy and healthy relationship, then doing the 180 was about the worst thing you could have done. That was game playing and manipulation in attempt to 'game' her and manipulate her. 

Now on other hand, seeing how she is a game player and manipulator herself, doing the nuts and bolts of the 180 may have kept you from getting played by her more than what she has already done. So you can give it some credit there. 

But as far as the 180 establishing a mature, responsible, adult, happy and healthy relationship..no. Just no.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

EasyPartner said:


> I wrote the following in an old thread about the 180, AKA the Last Resort Technique (LRT)... still relevant me thinks!
> 
> So here comes the the list of do's and donts in question.
> 
> ...


To the bolded above:

NO, those rules REALLY aren't meant to lure the WAS back! That has never been the stated intent of the 180. Saving a relationship should never be the intent of the 180. Forcing on oneself is designed to help that individual. So are completely confused about the 180 or its purpose and for that matter when it should be applied.
Yes it does sometimes work, but that is just an added side benefit that happened to take place. It was never the intent of doing the 180.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

........me thinkst the dude has checked out as it was too hot in the kitchen.........


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