# Wife has a "toxic" girlfriend...



## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Wow, what a wealth of experiences and advice on this web site.

First post here, I'll try to keep it short and to the point.

I'm a man who's always been a successful provider for my wife and young family. As far as stability goes (i.e. financial, availability, leadership, faithfulness, etc...) things have been incredibly stable and consistent for almost 10 years since we married. Physically, and in the looks department, I am doing pretty darn good. And yes, I am playful at times too.

However, I feel my wife is stuck in some sort of fantasy land. She is literally hooked on her daytime soap and is in constant daily contact with her divorced and promiscuous "BFF". Her words, not mine (damn I hate immature Internet shorthand). Everyday it seems the two need to talk about how their weekend went, and "tell me about Mr. xyz#50" is always in the discussion.

My problem? She has not known how to show me affection for years. I suspect her BFF is the same. Any attempt on my part to show physical affection (hug, kiss, playful slap on the butt) is met with resistance. I'm harassing her. Even when she tries to smile at me, it is just an attempt. No reception at all...nada. In other words, I think she hates me; and I truly believe most of it has to deal with this fantasy she's stuck in.

How does one suggest handling this? If at all.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Have you tried talking to her about it?


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## learningman (Oct 26, 2012)

It's been difficult for her to touch you for YEARS? She's clearly been checked out of the marriage for a while and it seems she wants to leave you but doesn't have the guts to do it. You need to sit her down and tell her things will be changing around here and if she won't work with you then you need to move on. I don't think she's having an affair, but I think she's fantasizing about it. Do something and do something now!


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

yes apply the CRAP plan Communication Resolves All Problems


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Chumpless said:


> Wow, what a wealth of experiences and advice on this web site.
> 
> First post here, I'll try to keep it short and to the point.
> 
> ...


What was her childhood like?


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

learningman said:


> It's been difficult for her to touch you for YEARS? She's clearly been checked out of the marriage for a while and it seems she wants to leave you but doesn't have the guts to do it. You need to sit her down and tell her things will be changing around here and if she won't work with you then you need to move on. I don't think she's having an affair, but I think she's fantasizing about it. Do something and do something now!


Close, but not exactly.

She is living vicariously through her friend's flings, parties, etc. She wants the Sex& The City fantasy life too... but that's just what it is: a fantasy from TV for single women. If she's going out for drinks, parties, dancing, etc with this promiscuous woman, that's a huge problem. My wife had some divorced friends who chain smoked and got used and abused by the guy of the week for a bit when I first met her, and I informed her that she needed to figure out what she wanted pretty quick. She didn't deny that she was into that life a bit too after her divorce, but I saw a good woman who had better values than that. It didn't happen overnight, but with my stability in her life, she did shape up pretty promptly and transition to more responsible friends with better values. I had to force her to think about what was important, and I had to do that myself also (cut out the yoga classes with my gorgeous bartender "friend", lower the stakes on poker and sports betting and stuff, spend more time romancing my wife than going to the gym, etc).

You really need to play hard ball. You are the man in the relationship, and you can help her by creating a better social group if she doesn't have one available. She's being selfish and inviting trouble by hanging out with single women... birds of a feather flock together, you're the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with, etc. When you're married, you pretty much need to socialize with like minded people... other parents, other relationship minded people (church is great for this if you're into that at all), other family minded folks.

Sit her down and ask her how she'd feel if the shoe was on the other foot: what if you went out with suit sharks who cared about nothing but wall street, gambling, sports, and chasing tail at the martini bars? What if you wanted to have a fun weekend in Vegas with those guys... playing wingman for them? If she says, "that's fine," then you have big problems and she has checked out mentally. If she nods but gets upset since she feels loyalty to her friend that she's shared with, that's normal.

It all boils down to priorities. When you're in a marriage, your top priority has to be your spouse (or religion with your spouse #2, depending who you ask)... and they reciprocate. Other priorities like extended family, yourself, kids, religion, career etc all come after your spouse. GL on finding out what her values and priorities are.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

"You need to sit her down and tell her things will be changing around here and if she won't work with you then you need to move on."

Yes, just did that recently for the first time. She is very aware of my boundaries on this one. Basically said I will not tolerate a loveless marriage for the rest of my life. She responded, positively, but still cannot make that leap to change or choose.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It's not the end-all, but reading "married man's sex life primer" will give you a starting point and introduce you to the vocabulary people will be throwing out here. When they say you're acting beta and like a doormat for letting her get away with this, you'll know exactly what they mean (beta has different meanings depending on who you ask).

But just to start out....let me guess, you do all the cooking and cleaning, right? You do more than your fair share, plus bring in all the money?


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

I think LearnAsWeGo nailed it pretty much. Thanks buddy.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Correct "WorkingOnMe". I also do all the cooking.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

...and yes, all the money too. The only household duty I don't fulfill is packing the kid's lunches and get them ready for school. A working man needs his rest.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

She is reaching out to her "toxic" girlfriend to test the waters of single life. I'm pretty sure she's also having a b*tch and stitch about you too. Perhaps in some way she craves drama in relationships. You have pointed out that things for your family have been stable. Perhaps a bit to stable.ie: stale. 

Do you go on dates with her? Do you have a few nights out with your guy friends in a month? Are you always hanging around the house? How's your sex life?


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

"Do you go on dates with her? Do you have a few nights out with your guy friends in a month? Are you always hanging around the house? How's your sex life?"

Stale? Yes. 
Guy's night out? Only with the neighbors.
Always around the house? Yes.
Sex life? Sucks.

We live in the middle of nowhere. Having fun has taken a backburner to providing. I am working on this though. Although I don't feel it's fair. Spontaneity, lunches, walks together. Just started refreshing those recently.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

You are not a husband, you are a SAINT! Not only you are the breadwinner, you are also affectious towards her AND you are helping her with the house chores. If she is unable to appreciate you for these things, my guess is that nothing will.
However, she may feel bored with her life. Not necessarily bored with you. What exciting new things have you done together, lately?


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

She's definitely bored Memento. There's been several new things in the past few weeks. New cell phones (finally some texting), toys in the bedroom, more open commincation (in and out of the bedroom), lunch dates, Sunday is now designated family day, etc...)

I personally think she has serious self-esteem issues. Not much I can do there, eh?


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Why do you think she has a self esteem issues? Was she always insecure about her looks?


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Just lack of confidence in general. She has no interests, and seems to me little interest in herself.

Maybe that's just it.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

She has you well trained. Most of the household and all of the financial responsibility. Wow. Throwing you a sexual bone now and again just to keep you interested. Feel like a doormat? 

I would suggest you need to get out of the house more without her. Take on some personal projects.

And one more thing. Stop pointing the finger at her and point it back at yourself. Look inward not outward for the solutions. Sounds like you're playing the blame game.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Memento said:


> You are not a husband, you are a SAINT! Not only you are the breadwinner, you are also affectious towards her AND you are helping her with the house chores. If she is unable to appreciate you for these things, my guess is that nothing will.
> However, she may feel bored with her life. Not necessarily bored with you. What exciting new things have you done together, lately?


Actually, her reaction to all of this is completely normal. Women aren't generally attracted to their butlers. Or to guys who provide everything without expectations of them. Women tend to have a thing for men who have just a touch of demanding jerk in them.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Does she look depressed?
After initiating those new activities together, have you noticed any significant changes in her behavior?


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actually, her reaction to all of this is completely normal. Women aren't generally attracted to their butlers. Or to guys who provide everything without expectations of them. Women tend to have a thing for men who have just a touch of demanding jerk in them.


My husband helps me with my house chores and he is also the breadwinner. I NEVER thought of him as a butler. I am very appreciative of him!
But you are right! Most women tend to think that men that are too nice are weak. And there's nothing uglier in a man, than weakness.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

That's fine Cannuck dude, and good discussion. But she is far from "[having me] well trained." What I'm saying is that there's absolutely nothing she has to worry about. It's done because I want to and I would feel less of a man if I didn't fulfill what I felt was natural. Not only for me, but her. I want her to be by my side as we grow together.

However, some where along the line my "fulfillingness" has become less attractive. That's what I'm learning anyway. Damn I'm feeling more and more like a schmuck each day. Where's the love?

Time to chill I guess. No biggie.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

My wife had some toxic friends too. 

Then when they found out our marriage encountered a rough patch, guess how many of them called me. 

I should've made my wife stop hanging out with them when I was a little bit younger and been more forceful. Well, hindsight is always 20/20. 

Here is what you do:
Tell you wife you don't like her hanging out with a female friend that is going out, banging every guy in a bar, and that you don't think she is the appropriate friend for a married woman. 
And if she disagrees, then make a man date to go bar hopping with a guy at work known for bedding a different woman every hour! And see how well she takes that. 

Then you tell her, you want some damn love!
I have never really had huge problems with getting love from my wife. Yes, had some...other troubles, but getting love wasn't one. 

Now, you make this very clear to your wife:
Either you dump this toxic friend, or I'll make a call and get out and do some bar hopping with my single player friend. Maybe he can teach me a thing or two. And we'll see how well this marriage fares that. 

Then tell her: you can start loving me the way a wife should love her husband, and I'll love you the way a husband should love his wife, or I'll make an appointment with a divorce lawyer tomorrow, and get the papers drawn up tomorrow. 

Because you can't put up with this. 
And while I hate using the threat of divorce to accomplish things, sometimes it is what people need to avoid a bad situation turning worse.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> What I'm saying is that there's absolutely nothing she has to worry about.


I think you need to brush up on what makes women tick. Women who have "nothing to worry about" usually turn to side interests in search for drama. It's as natural for them as menstruation. 

Her having no concern in the world won't secure her for you. It will probably do quite the opposite. As you may be finding out by the dwindling intimacy and her connection with this "toxic friend".


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

there's absolutely nothing she has to worry about.[/QUOTE]
Most likely that's a considerable part of your problem, if not all of it.
People need to be reminded of not taking others for granted! Specially, when they are together for a while. 
Wear you nicest clothes when you go out and don't tell her where you are going. And also don't pay attention to her, for a couple of days or so. Believe me, she will start noticing you right away!!


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Second best advice on this thread. h/t to Costa.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

...behind the first best set of advice...lol


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Chumpless said:


> She's definitely bored Memento. There's been several new things in the past few weeks. New cell phones (finally some texting), toys in the bedroom, more open commincation (in and out of the bedroom), lunch dates, Sunday is now designated family day, etc...)
> 
> I personally think she has serious self-esteem issues. Not much I can do there, eh?


You can do a huge amount to build her self esteem. Encourage and support her in her dreams. Something she wants to do but is scared to try. Be a bit forceful. If it's a sport or something can you do it together? She wants to be an actress, find out about local amateur theatre groups. She wants to play music, buy her an instrument and some lessons. That sort of thing.

And romance her a little bit. Plenty of tips for that on the internet.

And move heaven and earth to have regular nights out away from the kids!


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## NewM (Apr 11, 2012)

Does she work or is she stay at home mom?


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

She stays home...


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## NewM (Apr 11, 2012)

So you work,bring all the $,and do all household duties like cleaning and cooking while she doesn't work and does nothing at home but goes partying every week with her promiscuous friend.
You got big problem,she should be doing most of household duties esp cleaning and cooking and shouldn't even be going out every week.

All that coupled with no affection from her and no sex=VERY BAD
I wouldn't be surprised if she cheated on you multiple times already.


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> yes apply the CRAP plan Communication Resolves All Problems


I have never heard of the CRAP plan, but I like it. This seems like a long term case of very little or ZERO communication.

It all starts with communication and having two willing partners who want to love each other and want to work things out. If one of the two is indifferent or doesn't care...it falls apart and prolongs the agony...I have seen this with 3 of my close friends.


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

NewM said:


> ...I wouldn't be surprised if she cheated on you multiple times already.


I was thinking the same thing, but the only one who knows the answer to that is her.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Toxic girlfriend = NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

NewM said:


> So you work,bring all the $,and do all household duties like cleaning and cooking while she doesn't work and does nothing at home but goes partying every week with her promiscuous friend.
> You got big problem,she should be doing most of household duties esp cleaning and cooking and shouldn't even be going out every week.
> 
> All that coupled with no affection from her and no sex=VERY BAD
> I wouldn't be surprised if she cheated on you multiple times already.


Winner.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

You guys are way off.
I never said she was going out partying all the time with her ****ty friend. I just said she's always talking to her. Her friend is very ugly too.

We live in the middle of nowhere and my wife rarely gets out.
She may have cheated, but I don't think so, I'd know if it was anything other than a one nighter. 

If she would just wise up and see the forest from the trees, things would be so awesome. Everything is right here, right now. Yet she refuses to embrace.

If I don't start getting my fair share, it's adios I think.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Time for some ground rules and boundaries.

Toxic friends = bad news. My W has / had one. She knew how I felt about her. That I had a very bad feeling about her. Didn't trust her. 

Long story short, she went out with her alone for a GNO one time. The W later reported back on that night after we got in a huge argument over a "white lie" I discovered about that night. I was right. This skank was an instigating little s!ut, interested in nothing more than her good time. Brought hard drugs into my W's place, and offered up their use to W. Later encouraged her to hang with a guy she was trying to bang and his friend. In a hotel room where she was staying. Told her that "he (me) would never know". Well...I would have. No doubt. Thankfully the W showed the character as well as love an loyalty to me to not let herself get talked into nonsense, because had she done so, it would have likely been the end of us. 

But, from that day on I told the W "no more toxic friend". She showed she did not have my W's back. I trust my W to make good decisions, BUT, in case there ever did come a time when she had too much to drink or was going to screw up, I want her friends around her who have her interests at heart (not their own) and will at a minimum have her back and watch her back for her, and certainly not try to talk her into things she'd otherwise not do.

Toxic friends need to be rooted out and tossed on the trash heap.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Donny, thanks for that. Now how do I toss the toxic freak into the trash when they've been best friends for over 20 years? That's what my OP was alluding to.

Some people are just so fudged in the head.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Chumpless said:


> Donny, thanks for that. Now how do I toss the toxic freak into the trash when they've been best friends for over 20 years? That's what my OP was alluding to.
> 
> Some people are just so fudged in the head.


You may not be able to if they've been friends that long. Obviously "toxic" is not going anywhere.

You'll need some kind of "grounds" for setting boundaries with her regarding this friend. Do you have any evidence toxic has tried to undermine your marriage? Just you not liking her will not be enough.

More than that, it seems you need to pull back from the W a bit. You're doing all the work, cooking, cleaning, etc., while the W gets essentially a free ride on the couch watching soaps all day. And for all that effort, you get a wife who ignores you. This very same theme is played out on these forums every day.

She needs to get off her azz. And her focus needs to be more on keeping you than on daydreaming about what she already doesn't have (a sexy, romantic, exciting life like her toxic friend has and like she sees in the soaps). So, start making her WORK to keep you. Start pulling back from her. Go out and do your own thing a night or two a week or on the weekend. Find a life outside of the house (even if only for a day a week). She needs to feel "threatened" by your life outside of the house. And she will, because she knows she's been treating you badly. And she won't like that feeling. So she will likely start treating you better to make sure you have no reason to look at whatever "options" may be presenting themselves or available to you outside of the house.

Tell her you're doing too much, she's taking it for granted, and she needs to do more. Then be prepared for her to kick and scream and fight it. She doesn't want to give up her cushy life, so fight it she will. Stand firm. And when she acts out towards you about it, pull away more. Stand your ground, and don't respond to her anger, attacks, or tears. And then start to watch the changes she makes when she realizes that sitting on her azz, crying, anger, etc., are not cutting it anymore.

As long as she is convinced you want her more than she wants you, then her friend, laying around doing nothing, and daydreaming about a more exciting life aren't going anywhere.


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## Gunthar (Sep 2, 2012)

Ouch....sorry to hear of your issues with the toxic girlfriends.

In my case not only do I have a few of these to deal with (my wife's friends) but also a few toxic boyfriends.

I have addressed these with her bluntly....unfortunately her NPD-like behavior gets in the way of having any constructive discussion on the topic where sometimes she just fights, others she hears me out.

IMHO the only way to deal with issues and grow in life with a partner is to open up and discuss honesty. If not then all you are doing is spinning your wheels.


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## Pinkme (Oct 15, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> yes apply the CRAP plan Communication Resolves All Problems


Love this!!!

Have you thought about MC??? It has done wonders for my DH and I. In the end we learned that although we were talking were werent saying anything.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Chumpless said:


> You guys are way off.
> I never said she was going out partying all the time with her ****ty friend. I just said she's always talking to her. Her friend is very ugly too.
> 
> We live in the middle of nowhere and my wife rarely gets out.
> ...


Here you go again with the blaming stuff. " If she would just wise up and see the forest for the trees" . Most every piece of advice on this thread has been directed at how you can change your behavior, not hers. And why should she wise up? She has it pretty good. No cooking, no cleaning, no sex, you pay all the bills, hell your the best roommate a women could ask for. Seems to me she's the wise one.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chumpless said:


> Correct "WorkingOnMe". I also do all the cooking.


Major attraction killer.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Here's a dilemma.
I cook because I enjoy it, I like to eat well and I want my children to eat decent food. The W hates cooking and can't do it very well.

Should I just do a complete 180 and stop cooking for them all together under these circumstances? And my W has no choice but to cook for the family every night? She'll be pissed, so I hope the end result will be worth it.

And a correction here on my part. She does do a share of the cleaning, it's just not as balanced because I do quite a bit too.
She get's the kids ready for school too and does half the grocery shopping.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Blaming? So it's my my fault only for providing an environment where I can be neglected, disrespected, and unappreciated?

Damn right I blame her. I blame her for being the type of woman she is to me after everything I've done for her. We are not teenagers here, we're grown adults.

But of course, I see what I need to do to try and fix what I feel I should never have to fix in the first place. Something tells me though, the more I pull away, the more she will too. She doesn't respond very well when I've been distant in the past. Only closes off more.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

I know cooking is a major attraction gainer. What you're saying is that just "too much" is the killer? I think so too because she's come to expect it all the time = taken foregranted.


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## NewM (Apr 11, 2012)

Its attraction killer that you are doormat and doing all the things she is supposed be doing.She doesn't see you as a lover anymore but just beta guy who will do anything she wants even if she gives very little in return(no affection,no sex).

What does she do while you are at work and while you do most of house stuff?Watch TV,watch you do it,sleep?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Chumpless said:


> Blaming? So it's my my fault only for providing an environment where I can be neglected, disrespected, and unappreciated?
> 
> Damn right I blame her. I blame her for being the type of woman she is to me after everything I've done for her. We are not teenagers here, we're grown adults.
> 
> But of course, I see what I need to do to try and fix what I feel I should never have to fix in the first place. Something tells me though, the more I pull away, the more she will too. She doesn't respond very well when I've been distant in the past. Only closes off more.


Yes it is your fault. We teach others how to treat us. You have created the environment in which her neglect, disrespect and lack of appreciation toward you is the norm. I and others on this thread submit that what you need to do is work on creating a new environment. The emphasis here is on you not her. It was not your intention to create this environment as you thought your actions were what you needed to do in order to show your love and commitment to the relationship. 

You had certain expectations that are not being met from her end. ("After everything you've done for her") Unless you had a discussion laying out the specific expectations for your marriage you really have no one to blame but yourself. This of course is evidenced in your strong feelings of entitlement and betrayal. 

If as you put it you are grown adults and not teenagers then it behooves you to act like one and take full responsibility for the situation. Man up in other words. That doesn't mean asking her to change, what it has somewhat to do with is follow the leader. 

You are the leader, so lead. Pick a new path for yourself. If you get results from pulling away then do that. If not pick another path. If you have not already done so I suggest you read the Man Up an nice guy reference on the top of the thread list in the Mens Clubhouse forum. 

Don't expect these techniques you are learning to work overnight. There is some really really good advice and insights on these threads and forums. You only need to read some of my posts if you like to see what kind of sh#t I was dealing with. ( and still am ). Things are turning around really well. 

FYI - first book I read that was recommended on here was the MMSLP by Athol Kay. Really good stuff.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Cooking - I don't think it's an attraction killer in and of itself. Personally I also like to cook. My wife makes the "ordinary" meals and I make the fancier stuff. Also, I'm the grill master. NOBODY touches my grill. I have nice Scanpan frypans that I don't let anybody else use either. When you pay $200 for a pan you don't really let the kids use it. Anyway, regarding cooking, I just like to make sure I don't start looking like a housewife. I don't let her "expect" me to cook all the time. And if she's in the kitchen I'm kind of bossy, like I'm in charge while I'm in there. I also have sons and when I'm cooking I'm often teaching them to cook, and I think my wife is attracted to that. So I think cooking is unattractive when it's a man's "role" but can be attractive if it's something out of the norm that he's doing because he wants to.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chumpless said:


> Here's a dilemma.
> I cook because I enjoy it, I like to eat well and I want my children to eat decent food. The W hates cooking and can't do it very well.
> 
> Should I just do a complete 180 and stop cooking for them all together under these circumstances? And my W has no choice but to cook for the family every night? She'll be pissed, so I hope the end result will be worth it.
> ...


Don't stop altogether. Do some of it. The part appropriate for a guy who is bringing home the bacon. Cut it by half and see what happens. Don't explain, just say "I'm too tired/busy to cook tonight. It's peanut butter night."

Read MMSL.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Cooking - I don't think it's an attraction killer in and of itself. Personally I also like to cook. My wife makes the "ordinary" meals and I make the fancier stuff. Also, I'm the grill master. NOBODY touches my grill....So I think cooking is unattractive when it's a man's "role" but can be attractive if it's something out of the norm that he's doing because he wants to.


Bingo.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

Funny. Today I brought home some frozen pizzas and mentioned I didn't feel like cooking tonight. When she started getting hungry she asked me when I was making the pizza "because I'm hungry".

I laughed and said "yeah right". "The reason I picked up pizzas is so you can make them yourself. I was thinking about going out for wings myself". I wasn't rude or mean. Just said what was well within reason.

Classic fitness test. She didn't get upset or anything, and it's even that time of month...Lol


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

"So I think cooking is unattractive when it's a man's "role" but can be attractive if it's something out of the norm that he's doing because he wants to."

I agree, but can't help but laugh when I consider this:

So the "Alpha" male should bring home the food (i.e. do the grocery shopping) and the woman prepares the catch / kill?

Personally, I think doing all the grocery shopping while my wife plays with sharp knives and hot ovens should be the opposite of what's attractive. Is this the alternative to me being a "chef" 5 days a week, after she fetches the goods? Very simplistic viewpoint, but just saying.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chumpless said:


> "So I think cooking is unattractive when it's a man's "role" but can be attractive if it's something out of the norm that he's doing because he wants to."
> 
> I agree, but can't help but laugh when I consider this:
> 
> ...


No, you just bring the money. That's the hunting part in the 21st century tribe; the gathering part is the grocery shopping.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Ask her to make a list of what she would like to eat next week for dinner. After she's finished cross out a couple of things and write what you'd like. Give her the cash for the Grocery store so she can buy whats needed. When she gets home ask if she thinks she'll have any trouble preparing it. If she says yes ask specifically what? Ask her to look up the answers. If she says no then no problem. Enjoy your free time. Lead.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Cooking - I don't think it's an attraction killer in and of itself. Personally I also like to cook. My wife makes the "ordinary" meals and I make the fancier stuff. Also, I'm the grill master. NOBODY touches my grill. I have nice Scanpan frypans that I don't let anybody else use either. When you pay $200 for a pan you don't really let the kids use it. Anyway, regarding cooking, I just like to make sure I don't start looking like a housewife. I don't let her "expect" me to cook all the time. And if she's in the kitchen I'm kind of bossy, like I'm in charge while I'm in there. I also have sons and when I'm cooking I'm often teaching them to cook, and I think my wife is attracted to that. So I think cooking is unattractive when it's a man's "role" but can be attractive if it's something out of the norm that he's doing because he wants to.


Lol, I swear, with my W, I can't finish cooking a meal without her getting all "hot and bothered" and trying her damndest to interrupt my efforts to take me upstairs (or pull my pants down right there in the kitchen) and screw my brains out! It has honestly become an "inside joke" to us. It just turns her the hell on! At first I thought she was just being funny about it, but I've come to realize it actually turns her on like crazy!

But, then again, I cook once or maybe twice a week for us. When we are relaxed and can have fun with it and enjoy the experience with a glass of wine and some background music and conversation. I doubt that were I to become the "house b!tch" and cook as a matter of course on a daily basis, that she'd be anywhere near as turned on by it. Not any more than her doing so would turn me on.

We're a bit strange. Cooking is an "event" or "activity" for us that we enjoy, which we share a couple times a week. It's a special occasion (even if we do it a lot). It is never expected and certainly not ever viewed as a chore. I enjoy it too much, and won't allow it to become "expected", a "duty" or a "chore". It is really fun together time, or we don't do it.


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## farside (Oct 27, 2012)

there is a large amount of gray area between what you have and what a lot of people here are advocating.

Drawing a line and telling her to cut off contact with a friend of 20 years in a "her vs. me" setting will have very bad results. Its not particularly that she values the friend over you, but that that she doesn't like you choosing her friends. Having a conversation about how that relationship impacts your marriage is reasonable. 

On household duties, it is one of the most common areas of fighting in marriage (behind money). The key is communicating and finding a balance. There's nothing wrong with the guy doing the cooking and I will say in my marriage its the opposite of a "turn off". Cleaning and household duties require planning and communication (my wife and I actually use something of a rotation).


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Chumpless said:


> I know cooking is a major attraction gainer. What you're saying is that just "too much" is the killer? I think so too because she's come to expect it all the time = taken foregranted.


I also love to cook.
I do lots of cooking at home and prepare meals. But what I do is just cook. She dishes out the meals and does the salads etc.

Whenever I cook, she is also in the kitchen helping me with the cooking or washing the dishes etc. 

Even though I would gladly cook every meal
[ I absolutely love to cook!] we divide the cooking 50/50.


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## Mr.PotentialFulfilled (Jan 5, 2010)

Chumpless said:


> Wow, what a wealth of experiences and advice on this web site.
> 
> First post here, I'll try to keep it short and to the point.
> 
> ...


Wow! You seem to be in the same boat I am. However, you are a successful provider and I am not. Perhaps, (and I'm serious about this), nothing will ever please a woman!! Maybe they are just made to have babies and raise them. Nothing seems to ever make them happy! And forget about the sex department.


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## Mr.PotentialFulfilled (Jan 5, 2010)

CanadianGuy said:


> Yes it is your fault. We teach others how to treat us.


Oh please!!! That's true only to an extent! After that it becomes just another cliche.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

ashamedbuthonest said:


> Oh please!!! That's true only to an extent! After that it becomes just another cliche.


What extent would that be?


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Thats how it starts..show me your friends (of BFF) and I can tell who you are.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You can't. 

What you can do is identify the source of toxic comments and ideas and remark: that kind of talk is not conducive to the type marriage we want.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Just screw them both and call it a day lol. At the end of my divorce I banged my wifes circle of friends....all 4 of them. Shows you what kind of friends they were in the first place.


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