# Workouts and Fitness



## Deejo

I got some great feedback in another thread and all of a sudden it struck me; The Men's Clubhouse needs a 'git yer ass in shape' thread. Was kind of surprised that I don't recall such a thread.

We have some very knowledgable people among our ranks regarding diet and exercise. So ... they should be taken advantage of, and wrung out for their fitness wisdom.

I have very strong views about fitness and lifestyle ... and their indisputable impact on how they affect our sense of well being, ability to cope with stress, self esteem, appearance, and influence our relationships. I know of very few cases where a woman sees fit to take issue with her man getting in shape. Overwhelmingly, the results are positive for him ... and her.

I'm always looking for new tips, tricks, exercises, recipes, input, or success stories. So if you would care to share your workout, any other aspect of your fitness regimen, or how getting in shape presented new challenges or success for your relationship, that would be great.

If you are thinking about starting a workout, or have questions, I don't doubt for a moment that we have a number of very qualified contributors.

I've always viewed fitness as a lifestyle rather than something that you do every January and give up come June.
I have fallen off the wagon numerous times in my life, but always find my way back. I'm on a 'way back' journey right now.

My last outting a number of months ago ended in frustration with consistently feeling light headed, nauseous, and having pain in my joints. I'm 45. I tried to work out like I always had ... and got a very abrupt wake-up call.

I'm currently using circuit training, whereby I incorporate strength training exercises, but I also try to keep my heart rate elevated. I perform about 12 basic exercises for anywhere from 10 to 15 repetitions, with no rest between exercises. I perform the circuit either 2 or 3 times. I rest for 1 to 2 minutes between circuits. I do this 3 times a week, and 2 to 3 times a week I get on the treadmill and do interval training, walking, jogging, sprinting for 40 minutes to an hour.

I have never been a big guy. Worst period of my life was in my 20's I was on a drug called prednisone to treat asthma for about a month. I gained over 40 pounds. I felt gross. I looked gross. At 5 feet 10 inches, I'm most comfortable between 165 and 175. I am physically uncomfortable, including issues with sleeping, snoring, gastric problems and low energy when I get up into the 180's.


My diet is generally good. Not great ... 

I'd much rather eat food I cook rather than get processed, or fast food. I travel a good amount for work, and quite frankly, eating well on the road can be a PITA.
On my last engagement, I discovered this place: Muscle Maker Grill - Home and I swear, were I able, I'd never eat any place else while on the road.

I have a very simple mantra when it comes to exercise: "Something is always better than nothing."

Used to be that if I didn't have an hour to do my workout, I'd blow it off with the attitude of, if your going to do it, do it right. But that really doesn't hold true when it comes to being active.

Now, my workouts seldom if ever, last more than 40 minutes, and if I only have 15 minutes in a hotel in the morning, I do some pushups, crunches, and use the stairs instead of the elevator.

Walking is tremendously underrated exercise. So once you're done reading this thread, go walk around for 5 minutes  or drop and give me 20.


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## Trenton

I know the the Muscle Maker Grill....good stuff! They're all over NJ and we have one just about 10 minutes from our house. I love the European Wrap. It's about time there is a healthier fast food choice.

I have been slacking lately but currently waiting for husband to get home to go with me to the gym. We usually do 30 minutes of weights (yeah...um, I think I'm up to about 40 lbs...haha) and then an hour or 45 minutes of cardio and I usually use the crosstrainer machine that mimics running but has no impact.

For me working out is my head time where no one else can get in. I love it. I feel worse when I stop going.

Ideally, I'd love to lose another 10 pounds and do so in a way where it fits into my lifestyle. I think that's the tricky part, making healthy eating and working out, getting exercise a part of your every day life. Oh, and getting your kids to enjoy healthy food = challenge.


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## credamdóchasgra

Deejo said:


> I have a very simple mantra when it comes to exercise: "Something is always better than nothing."
> 
> Used to be that if I didn't have an hour to do my workout, I'd blow it off with the attitude of, if your going to do it, do it right. But that really doesn't hold true when it comes to being active.


One of my favorite topics!

That first mantra--that is ME all the way!!! :iagree:
To save money in our one-income life, I no longer belong to a gym, which I miss, because I love all kinds of classes to diversify. But even without the gym, I make sure to do *something* on almost a daily basis. My current cold-weather minimalist routine is to walk an hour every day and every other day lift dumbbells, do 50 pushups and 150 squats. When it's warm, that hour-long walk turns into a 30-45 minute run whenever I can fit it in. So I am definitely of the "something is better than nothing" variety.

BUT the second one--"If you're going to do something, do it right" is my husband's mantra. And to be honest, it's BS, because he has done ALMOST nothing since he tore his ACL in May 2008!  He was on day #60 of P90X when he injured himself. He's postponing his second attempt at P90X until...??? I drag him out to walk or hike with me sometimes, but when he'd rather be lazy, I don't nag but I go without him.

Then I come home and exercise right in front of him, and hope he eventually starts to do these things again for himself too.

I don't know what he's waiting for. I don't get why he'd rather sit around and do NOTHING, spend $150 on "Insanity" DVD's that SIT THERE COLLECTING DUST, before he throws his body into an 1.5-hour a day, 90 days in a row commitment to something EXTREME. I don't understand how he can just sit and watch his body go gradually softer by the day while his high blood pressure continues to fester. 

He sees himself in pictures and complains that he is "fat," tells people he's "going to start P90X" and/or "Insanity," and he has yet to do either!!!

I LOVE cooking and LOVE food. My OTHER mantra is "I run to support my eating habit."  At least when I control our meals, I can positively influence my H's nutrition.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Oh sage Moderator Deejo, might I tip toe in here with a tip for a GREAT back workout? Our sometimes trainer taught us this and it is essential for men over 40 to support their spine and for anybody who has had back issues. 
Take on of those blown up balls (flex balls) and lay on it with your stomach. Stick your arms out straight in front of you, clasping both hands. Arch your back up and when you do this, bring your arms as far back behind you as possible. Do 3 reps of 15. This is called the "Superman" and it tones and tightens the muscles that support the spine. This combined with a healthy amount of calcium prevents "shrinkage" in a mans stature as they get older. Heck, ever since I started doing this, I haven't woken up with lower back pain. I have scoliosis and this has worked wonders to tone up the muscles that support my spine. It also has the added effect of tightening your core. A healthy back needs a healthy core. We do ours at the gym but this can be done every night on the living room floor. I would advise everybody to start doing this.


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## greenpearl

For excising, I have to learn from you guys, I do my daily cooking, cleaning, walking around in the classroom, using my voice, sexercising, that's it. 

One day when I get enough encourage from you guys, I will go jogging in the park near our apartment building. Get up, turn on the computer right away, maybe it's not a good habit. Should use this time to go jogging in the park. 

Eating, I do think we have a very healthy diet. 

We eat three or four kinds of fruit everyday, our breakfast is bread and fruit for my husband, fruit for me. My husband takes fruit to work everyday. Yesterday he took an apple, an orange, a banana with him. Then last night, we had strawberries. We started this crazy fruit diet last year, I noticed that I don't feel dizzy anymore(I used to see a doctor once a month for my dizziness), I go to bathroom much easier now, twice a day, it used to be once in two or three days. ( sorry for this kind of information), I had one cold in a year, and the cold wasn't serious. My husband used to have colds and sore throats often, he doesn't anymore. A big relief for me. 

Cooking, everyday, there is one kind of meat dish with vegetables in it, and another kind of vegetable dish. Say three kinds of vegetables, one kind of meat. I buy them from traditional market here, they are very fresh. We ear rice as our staple food. At night, my husband eats left-over from lunch, I eat more vegetables and rice at school. 

My husband's weight has been the same for the last 8 years, I fluctuate a little bit, around 10 pounds maybe. Last month we went to Canada, had too much my mother-in-law's good food, I gained weight. Now I weigh 115lbs. When I wear my S size jeans, there is a muffin top, have to work on it! 

We make sure that we get enough sleep. We go to bed now at about 11:00 or a little bit after, fall asleep at 12:00 maybe. We go to bed late because we work in the evenings and don't come home until 9:00. I usually get up at about 7:00 in the morning, my husband gets up at about 9:00. I always take a nap after lunch, it is important for me. If I don't take a nap, my whole afternoon is ruined.


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## Trenton

Wait...isn't it all women in her so far?!

Men where are you?!


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## greenpearl

One more important thing to add, not related to excising or diet, but very important to our health. 

Having a peaceful mind is very important to our health. 

Living in a life full of anger, anxiety, worry, jealous, fear, all the negative feelings can really hurt our health. Negative feelings cause our bodies to produce negative chemistry, and this can really mess up with our brain and health.


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## greenpearl

Trenton said:


> Wait...isn't it all women in her so far?!
> 
> Men where are you?!


Men are only interested in sex! :sleeping:


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## Trenton

GP, Sex and man'ing themselves up. Don't they get a great way to really man up is to workout? D'oh 

Mommy22 I too am working to lose the last stubborn pounds. The thing is, I really have to be on a 1,000 - 1,600 calorie a day diet to get there and I think maintaining once there will be hard. No idea what my body fat is or where I should really be except based on calculators. I'm 5 foot 6 inches and 130 pounds currently. I'd like to be between 120 - 125. The trainer at the gym told me I should work more on muscle training less on cardio to tone but I really hate the first and love the later.

I've learned tricks like eating a small handful of nuts during the day to keep me full and eating a lot of veggies and fruits. The hardest lesson learned for me was portion control and that I have to drink lots of water which I hate. Before getting healthy a couple of years ago, I had no idea I was eating 1,000 calories a sitting without realizing it and another 1,000 calories in soda a day.

Of course, I've never been as hardcore as you were...congrats on that! I don't think I could keep it up! I do 4-5 days when I'm good but only do about 4 - 5 miles. Weight training bores the poo out of me.


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## Halien

I began working out when I was fourteen, and now I'm mid forties. Work out five days per week. I've had a few lazy spells, but always go back to it. Wake at 5:00 AM and work out for thirty minutes on a really fast weight circuit in the man cave (three sets of fifteen reps). On my off days, I focus on a back and neck regimen taught by my physical therapist, with range of motion stretches with very light weights.

About four times a year, I slow down for a heavier weight rotation, which lasts about a month each, so the total workout moves up to forty minutes. Still, I never keep track of max weights like the ironheads from my college days. 

At nights, two or three times per week, I do the treadmill, bike, or rowing, and bought a home on a twenty mile bike trail for spring through fall on weekends.

Keeps me relatively lean in the waist. It has helped me to always stay motivated and optimistic. I think I really got hooked on the mild-mannered approach because it helps me sort out the things I need to do during the day. My job is exptremely stressful at times. Not sure if its related, but I've only had two or three colds as an adult, and the flu only once.

Recently, my daughter ran off the road in the snow. While waiting for the motor club, a passerby stopped to try to pull us out. He sunk the back wheels into a shallow pit. I got so tired of waiting that I just pulled the rear end of the car out. My daughter put it on her facebook page. Didn't cry like a baby until I got home.


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## alphaomega

I started working out when I told my wife to leave. I dropped 30 lbs in one month from the stress of her EA. I figured since I was back to my target weight, I might as well get some definition so I could look good for the ladies! I used to work out in college, about a million years ago, but that turned to flab after I stopped. Now, I'm starting to get my definition back slowly and it feels awesome! Plus, mentally it really makes you feel empowered. 

I'm also getting more " Randy" after my workouts too. Must be all that extra testosterone my body is producing again from the workouts. Of course, being surrounded by ladies working out in their Lululemon pants isn't helping! Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## less_disgruntled

I just deadlift, bench press, spend an hour a day walking the dog and eat freezer pizzas with steamed broccoli added on top of the MSG-pork products, but i probably need ~3500 calories a day to keep from losing weight and from 'bonking' and going brain-dead by 9pm.

Okay, that's an oversimplification but not really.


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## Deejo

alphaomega said:


> I started working out when I told my wife to leave. I dropped 30 lbs in one month from the stress of her EA.


Going to the gym is one of the best coping mechanisms in your arsenal when going through the trauma of an affair, separation, or divorce.



> I had no idea I was eating 1,000 calories a sitting without realizing it and another 1,000 calories in soda a day.


Although I recognize most people think counting calories is an absolute pain in the ass; taking the time to actually inventory what you consume on an average day can be utterly horrifying. Far too many people are far too passive about what they put in their mouths



> I used to train and studied nutrition for awhile.


Mommy22 is my new forum crush.

I have read my share of fitness books and reviewed plenty of online resources. Here are a few of my favorites:

The Abs Diet I own the book and was gifted two recipe books. This is a great resource if you are a beginner. The writing style is very good. Practical, very very informative, and never preachy.
Provides a multitude of exercises and excellent recipe guidelines. I very much like the Abs Diet, because it discourages the notion of a diet and advocates lifestyle changes.

Body for Life Many people are probably familiar with this one based upon it's Before and After, 12 week challenge photos. This program is very product driven. The information in the book is basic, but it is inspirational as a result of all of the success stories, and some incredible before and after photos. Seeing the pictures and reading the stories certainly accomplishes the goal of making you want to get off your ass and do something.

There are vast resources available via the web or smart phone apps to assist with a fitness program and cleaning up your eating. They will do everything for you but the work itself.


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## greenpearl

Trenton said:


> GP, Sex and man'ing themselves up. Don't they get a great way to really man up is to workout? D'oh


I enjoy looking at men who are muscular and with big erection, yummy...................................Can't let go of the image I saw in Vancouver gay club! 

The purpose of manning themselves up is still for more sex!!!:rofl:


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## MisterNiceGuy

I hate going to the gym. I bores the hell out of me. I would rather play sports. I have played organized softball, volleyball, soccer. I ski. I used to swim competitively when I was a kid. I used to ice skate... I really did a lot of different sports and my wife is continually amazed at my coordination.

Right now I am getting back in serious shape with a combination of hiking 5 miles every other day and Yoga... If you haven't done yoga, don't laugh. It's hard as sh!t and will give you a ripped body!


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## greenpearl

MisterNiceGuy said:


> I hate going to the gym. I bores the hell out of me. I would rather play sports. I have played organized softball, volleyball, soccer. I ski. I used to swim competitively when I was a kid. I used to ice skate... I really did a lot of different sports and my wife is continually amazed at my coordination.
> 
> Right now I am getting back in serious shape with a combination of hiking 5 miles every other day and Yoga... If you haven't done yoga, don't laugh. It's hard as sh!t and will give you a ripped body!


In Taiwan, I think it is $70 a month for a gym membership, I would rather go jogging in the park, save more money! But in summer, it is very hot in Taiwan, gym sounds more encouraging. 

I don't like to waste money on something I can get it done in a cheap or free method.


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## Powerbane

I starting working out when my wife said she was leaving me in December 2009. I also had lapband surgery last May 2010. I was 400 lbs and am now down to 305 with about 100 to go 

Even with lapband - it's still hard work because I have to plan each meal very carefully. The lapband is a very harsh deterrent to over-eating. I eat one bite too many and it all comes racing back out. Sorry TMI- I know. But as long as I eat solid food (no milkshakes or soup) it's ok - my limit is about 1 cup at a time, so I make darn sure it's quality materials. 

I walk an hour every day now and lift very heavy 3 days a week.

I throw in some bike rides with the kids now too - being in Sunny Florida has it's perks!


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## less_disgruntled

MisterNiceGuy said:


> I hate going to the gym.


I hate the flourescent lights, the awful music and the lack of practical equipment. One squat rack (with a guy doing curls standing at it. for the next thirty minutes) but 32 different machines? I had to make a delivery to an NCAA atheletic building a couple months ago and was amazed, it was just about twenty sets of power racks with unfixed flat benches on the side. I have an olympic bar and four 45-lbs plates I put outside ("what's that big bright thing in the sky making everything a pleasant instead of glaring color? Am I dead? Is this the afterlife?"). Nobody even cares if you the drop the weight on soil. Not 14 different curl machines.

*MORAL FOR NON-TRAINEES*: Don't waste time on isolation exercises like bicep curls unless you're really got time to waste or are recovering from injury

*MORAL #2*: Sunlight is good for you, exercise outside


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## Halien

less_disgruntled said:


> I hate the flourescent lights, the awful music and the lack of practical equipment. One squat rack (with a guy doing curls standing at it. for the next thirty minutes) but 32 different machines? I had to make a delivery to an NCAA atheletic building a couple months ago and was amazed, it was just about twenty sets of power racks with unfixed flat benches on the side. I have an olympic bar and four 45-lbs plates I put outside ("what's that big bright thing in the sky making everything a pleasant instead of glaring color? Am I dead? Is this the afterlife?"). Nobody even cares if you the drop the weight on soil. Not 14 different curl machines.
> 
> *MORAL FOR NON-TRAINEES*: Don't waste time on isolation exercises like bicep curls unless you're really got time to waste or are recovering from injury
> 
> *MORAL #2*: Sunlight is good for you, exercise outside


Your morals hit the nail on the head. As I said in my reply, I've worked out for over thirty years. Currently, I compare notes with a coworker who was an olympic wrestler (he's trying to learn how to get lean and muscular), and we train together on the weekends. You wouldn't believe how many people waste their efforts. Keep it simple.

Since I've built my own gym, I have my favorite core machines (leg press, shoulder press, power rack,etc), and I installed full spectrum lighting. But even if it is freezing outside, my wife and I take long walks on the biking trail. Many people hate working out alone, but I can't stand waiting.

And speaking of sex - By avoiding overtraining, I feel like I'm never too tired to stay focused on what's important. My wife hates musclehead types (the beefy ones) but gets weak-kneed over a guy with a thick chest and small waist. I decided early that it would be a life long committment. We butt-ugly guys have to use what we got (just joking - everyone says my older brother looks like Brad Pitt, then says to me 'What happened to you?')

But from a practical standpoint, I just never want to worry about depression or stress. One guy I replaced in my previous job committed suicide due to stress (I didn't learn this until after the job was awarded). They called me Mr Calm.


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## eagleclaw

I have been doing the body for life style of workout. I have a blowflex at home, and a treadmill, and some dumbells. I am also thinking of getting a recumbant bike.

I am doing heavy weights 3 days a week, and the treadmill 3 days a week. I'm feeling better and slowly losing weight. Unfortunately, after quitting smoking and gaining approx 25 pounds it's all in one spot - on my stomache. I can take measurements and I am changing everywhere EXCEPT my stomache! Any tips on getting it off the stomache?

I also have a bad back (2 discs - and constant lower back ache) so need to be careful when I work out but really enjoying it.

Diet is also good, but not superb. Eat real foods, but enjoy the condiments and/or cheese additions to them. Probably consume too many carbs.

Just about 40 years old.

6"3 - 227 pounds currently. Goal = 210 pounds.


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## Deejo

Condiments can kill a good thing eagleclaw.

Baked potato, pretty good thing ... about 280 calories, very little fat, few grams of protein.

Add a tablespoon of butter and few dollops of sour cream and you have a completely different animal. Add to that an 8 oz. steak and a large soda, and you easily have a 1000+ calorie meal, and have likely blown your RDA for saturated fat in one sitting.

On the spud front, I completely switched over to sweet potatoes. Better tasting. Nutritionally a bit more diverse.

Ketchup is loaded with high fructose corn syrup.

Mayonnaise and most salad dressings are primarily fat.

My favorite condiment? Salsa. You can put it on just about anything. Even better if you make your own.

Mommy22 already mentioned that spot reduction is a myth. You can certainly change the appearance of an area by toning up the muscles around it, but the only way to eliminate the fat in an area is to have burned off the fat from the other areas of choice. Sadly for most, the belly is the last reserve that the body will look to tap. 

Keep that metabolism up and watch the hidden calorie bombs in seemingly harmless foods and you will get there.

Yet another easy resource to discover nutritional information about virtually any food:

Calorie Counter Database


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## eagleclaw

Thanks deejo. I have been tracking calories and do eat quite well. Generally I am under 2100 cals a day. I have been trying to eat 4 - 6 times a day and have largely reduced my sugar intake. I don't drink soda at all, never have. Coffee in the morning and milk in the evening. Need to start drinking way more water!

Absolutely stunned how fast my strength has increased.


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## Minncouple

I can spend all day typing here, but the basics:

1) Most way over think the training/diet's, it isnt that difficult to do. The whole new revolution with kettle balls, bands, ext...is complete marketing BS. It is simply selling the same old concept, and tryi to keep somene entertained instead of simply working out.

2) The MOST important item is diet, PERIOD. I can get someone into shape by diet alone. Everyone wants to workout, but no one wants to eat right. Thus, they get no where and loose interest and simply complain they are stuck with bad genetics.

3) Second most important is weight training. Now, women will NOT bulk up by training weight. It wont happen, they have very little muscle building hormones. They will get tones, but will not be a buff chick in 6 months. Truth.... MUSCLE burns fat. Thats it. The more muscle you have the more calories you burn. Fat/bone does not burn calories. Thus, if all you do is cardio, you are simply wasting your time and in a downward spiral. I see so many women for hours on a stairmaster and they look like hell. Most simply burn up what muscle they have doing the cardio, and the fat stays. When the body is calorie starved, it turns to burning muscle, NOT fat. So, the calorie starved chick on the treadmill, who is already not eating enough, is simply burning up what calorie buring tissue she has and simply in a downward spiral.

4) Cardio should only be done at a minimum. Maybe 20/30 min 5 days a week. THATS it. Control you bodyfat through diet and muscle, NOT cardio. if you are doing cardio to burn extra calories you took in, it is a waste. Cardio is only done to elevate your metabolism slightly and some excercise for your heart, NOTHING else.

5) Diet fades, plans, ext.. dont work. Life style changes do. It's not about eating right for 2 weeks or a month, but eating right for life. Eat clean 6 days a week, and cheat one day. Instant results dont happen. Diet such as Adkins do work, but are not a solution. 90% are obese again. The concept is based on catosis (sp), simply starving the body. Not a healthy way to live. 

6) Basic foods are: protiens (Meat/fish/chicken/egg whites), Carbs (whole oats/brown rice/Yams), fats (Peanut butter the kind you need to stir, nuts). Thats it. High protiens, mid/high fats, low carbs. Only about 20% of folks require a high carb diet. Those with physical jobs and hard gainers. The rest need about 1 gram per lb of body weight.


Sorry to drag this on, but it really isnt that difficult. I get so upset by seeing these ding dong trainers in gyms simply wasting thier clients time and money, to only have the client not see progress and loose interest. very dis-heartning.

I've been trained and trained with the best trainers in the US. these are the trainers who train professional bodybuilders, figure girls, and swimsuit models. They all use basic ideas noted above. It really isnt some huge secret and scientific equation of metabolites and micro-nutriants. 

Rant over....


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## Trenton

I cut out condiments like mayo a long time ago. I also don't eat sour cream except as a treat.

Another thing I don't is butter or whole milk. I use the non-stick zero calories sprays when stove top cooking or even making cookies...works fabulously and I never notice. I also use Promise Light or Smart Balance as a replacement for butter. It's really odd but I don't miss the things I took for granted that were literally killing me.

I do have a question though. How does everyone feel about the mayo made with olive oil? I've switched to it for the kids (who haven't noticed nor care) and will use it sparingly on a turkey sandwich. Of course, I'm finding myself thinking it's too good to be true.

Nutrition Facts
Serving Size: 1 tbsp (15 ml/13g)
Amount per Serving
Calories 100 Calories from Fat 99
% Daily Value *
Total Fat 11g 17%
Saturated Fat 1g 5%
Monounsaturated Fat 6g 
Polyunsaturated Fat 3.5g 
Trans Fat 0g 
Cholesterol 5mg 2%
Sodium 85mg 4%
Total Carbohydrate 0g 0%
Dietary Fiber 0g 0%
Sugars 0g 
Protein 0.2g 0%
Vitamin A0%
Vitamin C0%
Calcium0%
Iron0%


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## Trenton

Minncouple said:


> I can spend all day typing here, but the basics:
> 
> 1) Most way over think the training/diet's, it isnt that difficult to do. The whole new revolution with kettle balls, bands, ext...is complete marketing BS. It is simply selling the same old concept, and tryi to keep somene entertained instead of simply working out.
> 
> 2) The MOST important item is diet, PERIOD. I can get someone into shape by diet alone. Everyone wants to workout, but no one wants to eat right. Thus, they get no where and loose interest and simply complain they are stuck with bad genetics.
> 
> 3) Second most important is weight training. Now, women will NOT bulk up by training weight. It wont happen, they have very little muscle building hormones. They will get tones, but will not be a buff chick in 6 months. Truth.... MUSCLE burns fat. Thats it. The more muscle you have the more calories you burn. Fat/bone does not burn calories. Thus, if all you do is cardio, you are simply wasting your time and in a downward spiral. I see so many women for hours on a stairmaster and they look like hell. Most simply burn up what muscle they have doing the cardio, and the fat stays. When the body is calorie starved, it turns to burning muscle, NOT fat. So, the calorie starved chick on the treadmill, who is already not eating enough, is simply burning up what calorie buring tissue she has and simply in a downward spiral.
> 
> 4) Cardio should only be done at a minimum. Maybe 20/30 min 5 days a week. THATS it. Control you bodyfat through diet and muscle, NOT cardio. if you are doing cardio to burn extra calories you took in, it is a waste. Cardio is only done to elevate your metabolism slightly and some excercise for your heart, NOTHING else.
> 
> 5) Diet fades, plans, ext.. dont work. Life style changes do. It's not about eating right for 2 weeks or a month, but eating right for life. Eat clean 6 days a week, and cheat one day. Instant results dont happen. Diet such as Adkins do work, but are not a solution. 90% are obese again. The concept is based on catosis (sp), simply starving the body. Not a healthy way to live.
> 
> 6) Basic foods are: protiens (Meat/fish/chicken/egg whites), Carbs (whole oats/brown rice/Yams), fats (Peanut butter the kind you need to stir, nuts). Thats it. High protiens, mid/high fats, low carbs. Only about 20% of folks require a high carb diet. Those with physical jobs and hard gainers. The rest need about 1 gram per lb of body weight.
> 
> 
> Sorry to drag this on, but it really isnt that difficult. I get so upset by seeing these ding dong trainers in gyms simply wasting thier clients time and money, to only have the client not see progress and loose interest. very dis-heartning.
> 
> I've been trained and trained with the best trainers in the US. these are the trainers who train professional bodybuilders, figure girls, and swimsuit models. They all use basic ideas noted above. It really isnt some huge secret and scientific equation of metabolites and micro-nutriants.
> 
> Rant over....


Great post but so hard for me to wrap my brain around. I actually had a trainer come up to me in the gym and ask me why I do so much cardio and explain what you just said above. I was so depressed. I love the cardio and hate the weight training.

Do you have recommendations for how to go about doing the weight training? How long on each muscle set, how many rep's etc.?


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## credamdóchasgra

Trenton,

:smthumbup: to the mayo with olive oil, based on the nutrition facts.

Olive oil IS too good to be true, which is why I love that it is true!

1 g sat fat is not bad

Also, low fat plain yogurt isn't a bad substitute for sour cream or mayo.


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## Deejo

Minncouple said:


> I can spend all day typing here, but the basics:
> 
> 1) Most way over think the training/diet's, it isnt that difficult to do. The whole new revolution with kettle balls, bands, ext...is complete marketing BS. It is simply selling the same old concept, and tryi to keep somene entertained instead of simply working out.
> 
> 2) The MOST important item is diet, PERIOD. I can get someone into shape by diet alone. Everyone wants to workout, but no one wants to eat right. Thus, they get no where and loose interest and simply complain they are stuck with bad genetics.
> 
> 3) Second most important is weight training. Now, women will NOT bulk up by training weight. It wont happen, they have very little muscle building hormones. They will get tones, but will not be a buff chick in 6 months. Truth.... MUSCLE burns fat. Thats it. The more muscle you have the more calories you burn. Fat/bone does not burn calories. Thus, if all you do is cardio, you are simply wasting your time and in a downward spiral. I see so many women for hours on a stairmaster and they look like hell. Most simply burn up what muscle they have doing the cardio, and the fat stays. When the body is calorie starved, it turns to burning muscle, NOT fat. So, the calorie starved chick on the treadmill, who is already not eating enough, is simply burning up what calorie buring tissue she has and simply in a downward spiral.
> 
> 4) Cardio should only be done at a minimum. Maybe 20/30 min 5 days a week. THATS it. Control you bodyfat through diet and muscle, NOT cardio. if you are doing cardio to burn extra calories you took in, it is a waste. Cardio is only done to elevate your metabolism slightly and some excercise for your heart, NOTHING else.
> 
> 5) Diet fades, plans, ext.. dont work. Life style changes do. It's not about eating right for 2 weeks or a month, but eating right for life. Eat clean 6 days a week, and cheat one day. Instant results dont happen. Diet such as Adkins do work, but are not a solution. 90% are obese again. The concept is based on catosis (sp), simply starving the body. Not a healthy way to live.
> 
> 6) Basic foods are: protiens (Meat/fish/chicken/egg whites), Carbs (whole oats/brown rice/Yams), fats (Peanut butter the kind you need to stir, nuts). Thats it. High protiens, mid/high fats, low carbs. Only about 20% of folks require a high carb diet. Those with physical jobs and hard gainers. The rest need about 1 gram per lb of body weight.
> 
> 
> Sorry to drag this on, but it really isnt that difficult. I get so upset by seeing these ding dong trainers in gyms simply wasting thier clients time and money, to only have the client not see progress and loose interest. very dis-heartning.
> 
> I've been trained and trained with the best trainers in the US. these are the trainers who train professional bodybuilders, figure girls, and swimsuit models. They all use basic ideas noted above. It really isnt some huge secret and scientific equation of metabolites and micro-nutriants.
> 
> Rant over....


All great stuff.

My ex is a personal trainer. The book she has always talked about writing, and I wish she would ... she titled "It's Not a Secret"

Very simple truths for fitness and nutrition, but it seems like it needs a gimmick or shiny packaging to bring people onboard.

Trenton, you should consider circuit training. More results, half the time, what's not to like?

I'll be moving over to my split routine in a week or two. I just feel horribly incapable of working out the way I want to at the moment. I use circuit training to build up my stamina.


----------



## Leahdorus

I've been taking a bootcamp at 5:30am 5 days/week since end of October, and I LOVE it. I would say we are doing mostly circuit training, but everyday is different, mixing things up so the body doesn't get complacent. We do strength training, intervals, cardio, you name it. It's a ton of fun, and I've lost 13 lbs since I started.

I am also tracking my calories on Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal | MyFitnessPal.com - it's been a huge help in keeping my portions and food choices under control. To lose weight, you need to have a calorie deficit - 3500 calories = 1 pound. This site really helps and the community is supportive and helpful too. I turn in my diet logs to my bootcamp trainer each week and it's helpful to see what I could do better.

One other tool I've used in the past, and use on the weeks between bootcamps, is this deck of cards with exercises on them - basically a personal trainer in a box.  It's called FitDeck - you can get them on Amazon. Tons of exercises you can do at home with no equipment. I just added some dumbbell cards and a core blast deck to the main bodyweight deck.

I also invested in a heart rate monitor, since I wanted to know exactly what I burned during my workouts. Today it was 419 calories in the hour-long class, including stretching. I highly recommend a HRM (with a chest strap for greater accuracy) - best gadget I've bought in a while!


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## eagleclaw

Minncouple: Thanks, great stuff. How do you recomment handling your carbs. I tend to eat them for breakfast and lunch and try to severly reduce them after that point.

Also, I love weight training and hate cardio so your suggestings are music to my ears. I'm doing 20 - 30 minutes 3 days a week of cardio and 45 - 1hour of weights 3 days a week. I'd be curious how you would do your sets as well. As I said, I have been following the body for life which is really 1 exercise per muscle, 12 reps, 1min reset 10 reps rest, 8 reps rest , 6 reps rest, 12 reps no rest, 12 reps (of a second exercise for that muscle. I focus more on my upper body as well. Legs get a workout doing cardio/treadmill.


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## Deejo

EC, you mentioned that you have back issues, do they prevent you from performing squats?

I would defer to some of the more knowledgeable folks, but from my understanding, squats can have a tremendous positive impact on your results, and oddly enough, the rest of your physique.


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## Minncouple

Trenton-

1) The mayo is simply wasted calories. If it doesnt serve a nutrional value, it should go down the hatch. BUT, you do need to live a little also. I would just limit the use. As far as kids, well kids should be kids and not on some crazy diet. Sounds like you are aware of what they eat and thats good, most parents feed thier kids fast food all day. Thus obesity is at an all time high.

2) The weights are hard to say. Some one who has never trained before, would use a three times a week split, half the body each day. If you have been traing a while and know how to do the movements and such, each body part once a week, weights for 5 days, about 20/30 max. It's not really about how much, or how heavy, but tearing the muscle fibers down enough to force new growth, and then retrain the muscle once recovered. If you train arms, they should a little sore for a few days, retrain once the soreness is gone.

In general, its not so much the program, simply getting the muscle fibers torn down. How you accomplish that is through many means. I used to squat 8 set (400lbs), leg press 8 sets (750lbs), extensions 8 sets full stack. I got sore. Then I can train with my wife (a figure model), and we do lunges around the gym with no weight, step ups onto a bench with no weight, and some light cable stuff and I couldn't walk right for a week It aint about the weight, about the muscle tear down.

hope it helps


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## Deejo

Leahdorus said:


> I've been taking a bootcamp at 5:30am 5 days/week since end of October, and I LOVE it. I would say we are doing mostly circuit training, but everyday is different, mixing things up so the body doesn't get complacent. We do strength training, intervals, cardio, you name it. It's a ton of fun, and I've lost 13 lbs since I started.


Congratulations! Muscle Confusion seems to be one of the new buzzwords surrounding fitness. It isn't actually new, but appears to be getting a lot more attention.


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## Minncouple

Deejo - I have numerous back problems. I Stopped squating 2 years ago. Now do lunges, legg press, V squat machine, extensions and my legs have not shrunk at all. Squats are great, but about the worst ergo-dynamic movement you could ever do. I do use a front squat every once in a while lighter though.

Eagle - Carbs should be handled like you already do. Taper off towards end of day. A workout will burn about 25-35 grams of carbs. I eat 1/2 cup oats prior to training at 4pm. every one is different, hard gainers need constant carbs throught the day, fat guys like me need to watch them and taper during the day.

Body for life is good for beginners, but after like 6 months your body isnt tearing down. Simply not enough training. It will need more stimulation. I would do a 5 day a week split, 1) arms, 2) Back, 3) Shoulders, 4) legs, 5) chest. Larger muscle groups (legs, back, shoulders) get 12 sets, smaller groups (bi/tri) get about 8-10. Rest 45 seconds between sets. Reps are kind of irrelevant, get more than 10 and over like 25 is a waste. The last few reps should be a struggle, and the last rep is almost a failure. if your shooting for 15 reps, and get that and could do another 5 but stopped at 15 you are wasting your time. Must be to failure always.

I see a heart rate comment also, keep in ind there are two kinds of cardio (aerobic and anerobic) one burns fat and the other muscle. Cariod should be around 75-80% of max. That is like wlaking fast uphill, out of slight breath, but able to hold a conversion. Over that basis your body goes into survival and burns muscle, not fat. Ideally, cardio is best on an emtpy stomach first thing in the morning.


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## eagleclaw

I can do squats if I'm careful, not too much weight but the risk to gain ratio is not in my favour. I have done some of my wifes leg workouts with no weights - and I can attest to not walking right for days.




Deejo said:


> EC, you mentioned that you have back issues, do they prevent you from performing squats?
> 
> I would defer to some of the more knowledgeable folks, but from my understanding, squats can have a tremendous positive impact on your results, and oddly enough, the rest of your physique.


----------



## eagleclaw

Minncouple: 12 sets stacks with more weights each set and less reps? Can you illustrate an example, say for chest.

Thanks

P.S. I had read some of your other posts regarding your wife - anything ever change/improve there?


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## Minncouple

EC-

Chest:

Incline: 2 warm ups, 4 working sets, 1st set at 15 reps to faliure, finish with around 10-12 reps, add or deduct weight as needed to achieve a 15 rep, 15 rep, 12 rep, 12 rep type deal

Flat: 4 working sets, same sets/reps as above

Cable/machine flys: 4-5 sets, 20 reps each set, adjust weight accordingly.

Push ups: bust out 3-4 sets on the floor to max reps.

It's kind of a feel thing. Switch the reps, sets, excercises up. I never do the same workout in a row. I have like 8 excercises I do for chest, I will pick 3. Sometines based on equipment availability, sometimes based on my shoulders hurt. Varying is the key. The same workout if done say 4-5 times in a row looses productivity, also more fun to do different workouts instead of simply following soem chart. Also dont worry about say only getting 12 reps with a weight you used last week and got 15 reps. Many things can effect strenght, food, carbs, soreness, all that matters is that there is muscle tear down. There was a day when I would bench 405 for a dozen reps, well that ship sailed and now it's more about looking good and not getting injured. 


Thanks for asking about the bride. Things have improved, and I have changed also. Still room for improvement, but things take time I guess. I did end all relations with the mother in law, she took a pot shot at me and it was the final straw. I broke the rule of not confronting a spouses mother in law, but laid down the law in a very blunt, clear, calm manor. She has not been seen in a while, expect not to either. The bride did backed me up on it also, and had a blow out with her. She (my bride) atempted to fill me in, and I politely stopped her and informed her that I nolonger need to hear, know, or have time in my life for the drama. Not heard a peep since.


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## lovemywife4life520

If time is not something you have a lot of, try doing 3 exercise combo of deadlifts, squats, and pushups. Work your way from sets of 10 at a moderate weight to sets of 3-5 at a heavier weight. Either way you are going to get a great muscular workout and an excellent cardio workout. Deadlifts and squats use alot more muscles and will have you breathing hard and really get your heart pumping. Work for a month with light weights and really focus on your form before going heavier.


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## less_disgruntled

Minncouple said:


> Squats are great, but about the worst ergo-dynamic movement you could ever do. I do use a front squat every once in a while lighter though.


I'm not an MD but I disagree w/ this, but I do almost-full squats w/ an Olympic stance/bar position. You need a lot of flexibility in the ankles and hips so that the back doesn't over-extend or go into flexion. Also stopping w/ the knee at 90 degrees is really bad--you need do go parallel and below or else you put shearing pressure on the joint rather than strengthening the muscle. And the "never put the knees past the toes" thing is a myth.

IOW, it's a complex movement that takes time and adjustment, something most people probably haven't learned. FWIW I think you get a lot of similar problems on some of the leg press machines, especially the standing ones. And please for the love of god don't squat in a smith machine unless you really like knee pain.

That said, I think lunges and split squats are probably better choices generally b/c most people spend so much time sitting they need to open the hip, and lunges will do that. Also doubles the amount of work you do metabolically. That, and most people have "bilateral deficit" where doing a two-legged movement (squat) is weaker than the combined load they can do on each leg by itself. But the total load is lighter so it helps prevent upper back issues--a loaded squat bar can really make scar tissue in your traps clench up nasty.

Anyway, take-home point is, be careful.


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## Halien

I didn't mention in my previous posts, but I have a hereditary disease that causes spinal column degeneration. In my thirties, my doctor wanted to fuse two neck discs due to increasing paralysis of my left arm. 

Most would likely disagree with my claim, but I began performing the physical therapy exercises daily, and an increased emphasis on my core muscle exercises healed my back over time. My neurosurgeon was too quick to propose surgery, but I heard about a really good one in another state. He set me up on a very specific physical therapy regimen. Most of these can be found in the books "Treat your own Neck" and "Treat your own Back."

Now, I go to a rheumatologist who focuses on safe medications and supplements, along with enough weights in my weight training to compress the cartilage just enough to keep it moving. At night, I even use quinine mixed by a specialist for muscle cramps from the disease.

It doesn't appear that the disease has progressed since I started the new approach, although the associated skin problems that sometimes accompany the disease are still there. My father had numerous fused discs, and my son is progressing because he hates working out.

Personally, I would never do squats. I do, however, perform stiff legged deadlifts with my legs very slightly bent, but with no more than two hundred pounds. I use my hyperextension bench daily, do sissy squats and lunges. Low rows and stretches are a must.

Its been a few years since I've eaten beef or pork, so I have chicken breasts almost every day, and fish when my wife will tolerate the smell.


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## Kobo

I dropped the Gym. I have a flat bench, curl bar, and treadmill. I'll get some dumbbells eventually and need to do something to get my pullups in.


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## Minncouple

lessgruntled - The squat movement varies from person to person and is do-able/not do-able based on a person skeletal composition. Some have the hips/knee's for it and some don't. I do agree it is the most taxing on the body more so than any other lift. I also know, based on my training, being trained by top trainers, and knowing a few dozen professional bodybuilder and power lifters, that squats are not mandatory for good legs. Many top pro's no longer squat due to injuries. Also, anyone over about 5'11" becomes less and less effecient in the movement due to basic geometry of the body. Take it or leave it, just my .02.


Halien - My wife has the same issue with her back, been bone fused twice, and the last operation was steel front and back of her lower spine. If you lay her on her back on the floor she cant roll over or get up. As you say, it is manageable, and NOT an excuse to not workout. Working the muscle all around the back, or in your case the neck helps add structure to the spine and over a long period improves your lifestyle. FYI, my wifes doctor told her she would never run again, jog, or work out hard. She won the western states female bobybuilding & figure show the next year. Where there is a will there is a way. Good for you.


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## greenpearl

My observation while I was in Canada. 

People's figure in Vancouver( big cities) are reasonably good, I didn't see many heavy people. 

Then we stopped in Calgary( medium size city), start to see more people with big stomachs. 

Then went to my husband's little town, only saw a few people with good figure, most of the people around me had big stomachs. 

Does this say anything? 

People in big cities are more careful with their figure and health? 

Diet, I was horrified. My mother-in-law cooks good food, I didn't want to disappoint her, so I kept on eating, ate as much as I could, I ate at least twice more than what I eat here, and I didn't eat dessert after wards. I tried not to touch pie, cake, chocolate, or ice cream! I still gained quite some weight in ten days there. Now I need at least three months to lose it. All the meat and bread are just difficult to digest. My mother-in-law is actually very good with fruit and vegetables, there were a lot of fruit and vegetables, but I looked at the portion of the meat, bread, and sweets they eat, I am not surprised that they are all heavy. My sister-in-law scooped three big piles of ice cream into her bowl after she ate her big meal, no wonder she can't lose weight.


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## less_disgruntled

Minncouple said:


> lessgruntled - The squat movement varies from person to person and is do-able/not do-able based on a person skeletal composition. Some have the hips/knee's for it and some don't. I do agree it is the most taxing on the body more so than any other lift.


Yeah, I just wanted to make sure people didn't get scared away too much. A lot of people go bonkers about it and I don't want anybody to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Since somebody mentioned blood pressure, probably worth knowing that the reclining leg press spikes blood pressure more than any other exercise observed IIRC.

Anyway I want to say short-distance sprinting (NOT running. Sprinting. Like "being chased by a tiger", not "onoz itz raining and i forgot mai umbrella") is really good for legs, as good as any weighted exercise, but of course you have to learn the technique and build up to it etc. before you go full-out.

Take-home point: Your legs. Exercise them. Hard.


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## Deejo

less_disgruntled said:


> Take-home point: Your legs. Exercise them. Hard.


Re-read this and laughed. I nearly fell over last night trying to walk up the stairs to my apartment.

And just to throw it out there once again, although it consistently gets brought up for guys coping with marital issues.

Exercise is one of the best things you can do for yourself. Burn calories, burn stress, feel better, lose weight, look younger, feel younger. There is zero downside to making this decision for yourself.


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## AFEH

I went for a scramble up a 3,000 ft mountain with my son the other weekend. The only way I got to the top was by my son calling out through the mist “Nearly there dad” … about 30 times. On the way down I knew where my legs were, my knees, thigh and calf muscles were kind of screaming at me.

Bob


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## mildy_peeved

I've managed to drop about 5kg. Subsidisied cafe at work, desk job, and then a proper cooked meal at home was just too much. Got sick of the belly, and a shock on the scales. Watching my intake, dropping carbs when I can, and excerises seem to be doing the trick.

I'm fairly busy with work, cook most meals, and I'm a Guild Leader/Raid Leader in World of Warcraft (for those of you to whom that means anything, we raid 3 weeknights, for 3 hours, starting an hour or so after I get home.

My wife doesn't like me spending time away from her, so I don't go to the gym. I run when I feel like it (great wind down after a raid, btw, I'm going to do that again).

Instead, I have a routine that lasts about 30-45 mins depending on how fast I go. I superset 5 dumbbell exercises together, and do three sets of those, and then another set of another 5 supersets. Every second day I change one of those supersets. Just sticking to dumbbell excercises and body weight exercises. I have both carb and protein powder, and drink both before and after, and keep my carb intake up during.

I feel better everyday. I've managed to keep it up for nearly a month.


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## Halien

Deejo,

The men and women in my group at work just started a exercise/weight loss competition, and the winner gets $1,500

Each of us developed a list of goals. If we are already in shape, the goal must be to step it up. If not, it is a weight loss goal. In reality, we did it because we are a close-knit group, and a couple of the team members are overweight, and having medical problems. The rest of us just plan to split the money between the two of them, and I suspect that they know it.

My part was to add some mass. After thirty years of working out, and at 45, I'm finally getting really stuck. I'm not a really big guy, but just don't feel 20 anymore. Now, every saturday, my son, daughter and I go to a local stadium. I bought a 100 pound weight vest, but took out nearly half. Last weekend, I climbed steps for an hour and a half. Considering that I had my left ankle fused at 18, working the legs is not easy. Other days, we attack other areas in long grueling workouts.


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## OOE

I've been doing Body-For-Life for over 3 years. If it weren't for the "free days," I would have never stuck with it this long.

Right after my divorce as I was redefining myself, I lost 85 lbs - partially thanks to BFL, but I'd lost 50 lbs before I started.

It's true that "pure" BFL will only take a man so far. I started doing more compound exercises in the mix, and it's really helped to keep pushing my strength up. For example, HEAVY deadlifts - they work me all over.

I'm meso, so I tend to bulk up quickly. Because of that, I'm really much more interested in strength.

Last thing: I've been doing the ab boot camp for almost three years, too. The original muscle media article is no longer on the web, but here's a copy someone posted: The best ab workout - The ab Bootcamp | yoGYMbo - A blog about exercise and nutrition

Try it. Your abs will cry out in thanks (or something). =D


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## kirby32

Working out has been one of the best parts of my Manning Up and Nice Guy recovery. Relieves stress, makes me feel better, makes me look better, and I've lost 10 lbs so far.

One of the recommendations in the books and websites was to pick up hobbies you had stopped over the years and/or things that originally attracted your W. Well, from before I met her and for years after I was a runner. I have picked it back up and found that I still enjoy it. I am back to running 5k at a decent pace.

I am also using some P90X and Tae Bo DVDs on the non-running days to lead me through other exercises for 30-60 minutes.

I had tried P90X a few times over the years, but could never stick with it. An important thing to learn was that if I miss a day of working out, just keep going. In the past I would miss a day and be so concerned with making it up that I derailed my whole effort.

The most important thing I have about staying motivated is understanding that I am working out to for myself and to please myself only. I have not had the issues with motivation that plagued my many previous attempts where I was doing it to please someone else.


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## chillymorn

All good stuff so far.

another vote for weight/resistant training over carido.

combine the 2 for best results with more time spent on weights.

and the #1 thing is motivation/attitude.
you got to make it important in your life style.

it amazes me how much better life is when your in shape and feeling good about your self your confidence sores, tasks seem effortless(cutting the grass etc.)and your sexuall proformance will benifit greatly.

lets face it thats all us men think about anyway.

I have been battling plantifaciaitas(Spelling aint my strong suit)so I have slacked off for about a year and I feel like crap.

but I have 3 lifts under my belt and am allready starting to feel good again.

an add benfit is when you look around at people your age and think wow I doing pretty good.

I also find that once your in a good routine you can slack off the deit some and enjoy some good food


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## alphaomega

It's been a while since I've been here....

I've been lifting and cardio a lot lately...since my first separation experience. I'm feeling awesome, too. It's been 'strange' that for about four months I noticed almost no change in my lean mass, but this last month I'm starting to get 'cut', so to speak. I can really see the changes now! That makes me feel even more empowered! Kudos to everyone else on this journey of health here, also!

I absolutely love that bicep, shoulder, lats definition in my upper body now! So cool!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mike188

I didn't read through the posts above (too busy now). I started working out again around Christmas. I didn't care if it was 10 degrees, icey, windy or whatever - I ran all winter nearly every night. I also lift weights with dumbells. I used to be a workout fanatic in my 20's. Tying to get it back now and become a CHICK MAGNET. 

I've only lost about 10-15 pounds, but I have really started to transform my body and get my muscles built back up. I can wear one size smaller jean size that a few months ago. 

I race dirt bikes with the kids and I can really tell a difference there. I am doing a lot better this season and aren't sore any more the days after my 1.5 hours of racing.

I think I'm getting a few more glances and smiles from the females too. It only motivates me to keep going.


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## MEM2020

For those having trouble "getting started". Buy a pair of "heavy hands", these are just dumb bells with comfortable grips. 5 lbs is a great starting weight - 5 lbs each that is. 

Get some good music on your mp3 player. Walk at a decent clip for 2 miles. Do that 3-4 times a week and you will notice an improvement in how you feel. Gradually boost duration, speed and how much you "move" your arms while walking and you are actually getting a decent full body workout. 

After a couple months, start doing some real strength training work outs while watching tv shows that you like. Variable weight dumb bells are very small and fit in a closet. Mine go from 5 lbs to 45 lbs. Nothing boring about a 40 minute workout while watching Henry the VIII in the tudors. 




Deejo said:


> Condiments can kill a good thing eagleclaw.
> 
> Baked potato, pretty good thing ... about 280 calories, very little fat, few grams of protein.
> 
> Add a tablespoon of butter and few dollops of sour cream and you have a completely different animal. Add to that an 8 oz. steak and a large soda, and you easily have a 1000+ calorie meal, and have likely blown your RDA for saturated fat in one sitting.
> 
> On the spud front, I completely switched over to sweet potatoes. Better tasting. Nutritionally a bit more diverse.
> 
> Ketchup is loaded with high fructose corn syrup.
> 
> Mayonnaise and most salad dressings are primarily fat.
> 
> My favorite condiment? Salsa. You can put it on just about anything. Even better if you make your own.
> 
> Mommy22 already mentioned that spot reduction is a myth. You can certainly change the appearance of an area by toning up the muscles around it, but the only way to eliminate the fat in an area is to have burned off the fat from the other areas of choice. Sadly for most, the belly is the last reserve that the body will look to tap.
> 
> Keep that metabolism up and watch the hidden calorie bombs in seemingly harmless foods and you will get there.
> 
> Yet another easy resource to discover nutritional information about virtually any food:
> 
> Calorie Counter Database


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## Runs like Dog

Here's what I do. I put 20-25lbs in a backpack and run 3-5 miles.


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## MEM2020

I wish my knees could take that. You must have a hell of a skeletal system to be able to do that. Damn. 



Runs like Dog said:


> Here's what I do. I put 20-25lbs in a backpack and run 3-5 miles.


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## Runs like Dog

MEM11363 said:


> I wish my knees could take that. You must have a hell of a skeletal system to be able to do that. Damn.


The ligaments below my right knee subluxate so I wrap it to keep the tibia and fibula from separating. You know you can do the same thing on a treadmill or a stairmaster or elliptical if your knees are painful. A great workout is pack on the weight and a few thousand feet on the stairmaster. It's easier on the legs than running downhill.


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## credamdóchasgra

As of today--74 degrees--I'm back to running, and it felt great!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo

I know we have a number of over 40 gym rats ...

Anyone else have issues with joint or ligament pain?

I'm trying to determine how much I can remedy by stretching, or if anyone has had luck with joint pain from supplementing glucosamine or Omega 3/6 oils.


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## Halien

Deejo said:


> I know we have a number of over 40 gym rats ...
> 
> Anyone else have issues with joint or ligament pain?
> 
> I'm trying to determine how much I can remedy by stretching, or if anyone has had luck with joint pain from supplementing glucosamine or Omega 3/6 oils.


The only one that seemed to make a difference for me was MSM (methylsulfonylmethane). Can be found at many stores. Really made a difference in joint and ligament pain. The hourly guys who stand on the assembly lines where I work told me about it.

Some of my fellow gym rats recommend vitamin E for recovery from painful ligaments.


----------



## Halien

A couple of extra thoughts about over 40 training, and I'll also look forward to other insights: I have found that stretching, the once dreaded time waster, is now important. I call it WD-40 for the tendons. 

Good form when exercising is also critical. As an example, I get more pain from added motions in shoulder side extensions with dumbells now that I'm over 45. Now, I use an ankle strap, placed just above the elbows, and attached to a weight stack with thin chain, to isolate just the deltoids. Shoulder shape got better, but injuries went away.


----------



## Conrad

Deejo said:


> I know we have a number of over 40 gym rats ...
> 
> Anyone else have issues with joint or ligament pain?
> 
> I'm trying to determine how much I can remedy by stretching, or if anyone has had luck with joint pain from supplementing glucosamine or Omega 3/6 oils.


Deej,

Do you see a chiropractor?


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## Deejo

Conrad said:


> Deej,
> 
> Do you see a chiropractor?


Have in the past. Have not been to one in about 3 years. Do see a massage therapist every 4 to 6 weeks.


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## Conrad

If you find one that uses the "Blair Chiropractic Method", it can help with much of this.

Basically, old injuries lock up some of our joints. Most common is one side of your neck from an old auto accident.

When the chiro "releases" those joints by using this technique - which involves hammering the joint in question for 1/8 of a second with brutal force - the result is the joint "releases" the pinched tendons, ligaments, etc.

This puts your frame "back in alignment" and - over time - those areas you are talking about relax.

Let me put it this way. As a pharmacist, I have shifts where I must stand from time to time. When I was 42 - yes 7 years ago - I was so "locked up" in my lower back and in such pain I couldn't do a job.

I went to this guy one time. I did a double shift of the SAME JOB the following week.

I've been a believer ever since.

I feel better at 49 than at any point in my life.

Of course, passing fitness tests regularly is part of this also



Deejo said:


> Have in the past. Have not been to one in about 3 years. Do see a massage therapist every 4 to 6 weeks.


----------



## AbsolutelyFree

I'm 26 have never looked really good or muscular. As a teenager and in college I was underweight and skinny. Then after graduating I gained weight but still have small, wimpy arms and shoulders and a bit of a belly. I am 5'11 and about 170 pounds, but I feel like I am still skinny. 


Now, my understanding is that the best way to gain size is to eat a calorie excess while doing a lot of weight lifting, and limit cardiovascular exercise to about 20 minutes a day. I've read how bodybuilders will eat 3500 or 4000 calories daily when they are trying to gain size. This is easy to do if you drink whole milk, eat a lot of peanut butter, etc. Later on, after gaining weight, the focus is shifted to cardio exercise, with the intention of retaining most of the muscle mass while cutting down on fat.


I'm nervous about trying this. I don't think the eating part would be a problem for me. I worry though that I'll hurt myself a month or two in and just end up becoming a fatty.

I really want to get into this though, and be in exceptional shape instead of just average.

My actual question is this -- Should I plunge into the high-calorie phase right away, or am I better off to lose the bit of belly that I have before trying it? Should I just lift weights with my regular diet to build some strength first? I am awfully wimpy as I said.

Of course that it would be wiser to post this question on a fitness forum (which is what I will do), but thought I might post it here as well.


----------



## alphaomega

Deejo said:


> I know we have a number of over 40 gym rats ...
> 
> Anyone else have issues with joint or ligament pain?
> 
> I'm trying to determine how much I can remedy by stretching, or if anyone has had luck with joint pain from supplementing glucosamine or Omega 3/6 oils.



I just ignore it and it goes away. Lol. 

Nay in my shoulder. I do some warmup shoulder weights with really light weights before I get into the head vein popping lifting routine. 

I hear flax oil has good supplements that help ligament growth and repair. I've never taken this, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

Are you over 40?

If you aren't, you better delete that post.

Bragging don't cut it here.



alphaomega said:


> I just ignore it and it goes away. Lol.
> 
> Nay in my shoulder. I do some warmup shoulder weights with really light weights before I get into the head vein popping lifting routine.
> 
> I hear flax oil has good supplements that help ligament growth and repair. I've never taken this, though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Soupnutz

Anybody got an opinion on just doing calisthenics? My daily excercise consists of running 2-3 miles with some interval sprints thrown in then about 30 minutes of calistehnics, (sets of 50 pushups until muscle failure, sets of 10 pull-ups until failure, 20 dips until failure), with some other stuff thrown in like crunches, squates, lunges, stuff like that. I realize I'll never be "buff", but thats not my goal, I just want definition and I hate going to the gym and waiting for weights and machines and stuff.


----------



## Entropy3000

Deejo said:


> I know we have a number of over 40 gym rats ...
> 
> Anyone else have issues with joint or ligament pain?
> 
> I'm trying to determine how much I can remedy by stretching, or if anyone has had luck with joint pain from supplementing glucosamine or Omega 3/6 oils.


If I do not do the below, I can get very stiff and have all sorts of aches and pains and some joint issues.

----

1) GNC Mega Man Sport ( twice daily ) ( has MSM )
2) 1000mg Fish Oil ( twice daily )
3) Creatine
4) DHEA
5) Zinc - Yeah the multivitam has zinc but I have a stressfull job and this seems to help.

I use a foam roller a couple of times a week.

I use a lacrosse ball and a softball for myofascial release especially on glutes and hips. This makes ALL the difference in my hip mobility. I find that by releasing muscle trigger points I avoid some of the imbalances that can manifest themselves in joint pain and stiffness. So this is an indirect form of joint health. I do this once or twice a week. Always before doing heavy squats.

I use jump stretch bands for my shoulders. Dislocates and rotator pre-hab exercises. Every morning for a few minutes.

I also do static leg stretches every morning.

I do a dynamic warmup before heavy exercise.


----------



## Entropy3000

AbsolutelyFree said:


> I'm 26 have never looked really good or muscular. As a teenager and in college I was underweight and skinny. Then after graduating I gained weight but still have small, wimpy arms and shoulders and a bit of a belly. I am 5'11 and about 170 pounds, but I feel like I am still skinny.
> 
> 
> Now, my understanding is that the best way to gain size is to eat a calorie excess while doing a lot of weight lifting, and limit cardiovascular exercise to about 20 minutes a day. I've read how bodybuilders will eat 3500 or 4000 calories daily when they are trying to gain size. This is easy to do if you drink whole milk, eat a lot of peanut butter, etc. Later on, after gaining weight, the focus is shifted to cardio exercise, with the intention of retaining most of the muscle mass while cutting down on fat.
> 
> 
> I'm nervous about trying this. I don't think the eating part would be a problem for me. I worry though that I'll hurt myself a month or two in and just end up becoming a fatty.
> 
> I really want to get into this though, and be in exceptional shape instead of just average.
> 
> My actual question is this -- Should I plunge into the high-calorie phase right away, or am I better off to lose the bit of belly that I have before trying it? Should I just lift weights with my regular diet to build some strength first? I am awfully wimpy as I said.
> 
> Of course that it would be wiser to post this question on a fitness forum (which is what I will do), but thought I might post it here as well.


Check out the following: Westside for Skinny [email protected]@rds


----------



## Halien

Soupnutz said:


> Anybody got an opinion on just doing calisthenics? My daily excercise consists of running 2-3 miles with some interval sprints thrown in then about 30 minutes of calistehnics, (sets of 50 pushups until muscle failure, sets of 10 pull-ups until failure, 20 dips until failure), with some other stuff thrown in like crunches, squates, lunges, stuff like that. I realize I'll never be "buff", but thats not my goal, I just want definition and I hate going to the gym and waiting for weights and machines and stuff.


My brother has been doing this for years, basically after Hershel Walker from UGA made it popular. He's fifty, very lean, but great muscle definition. He runs marathons also. He does hundreds of pushups daily, etc.


----------



## Entropy3000

Typical week: Modified Westside Template

My CNS, Central Nervous System can only tolerate 4 days a week for six to eight weeks and then I back down to 3 days a week. My work plays havoc with my schedule. So I do my best. If I only train once in a week it is Squat day.

This stuff gets religious so there are many great ways to train. Cross-Fit is just fine for example. I do what I do because it fills my spirit. I am flat jacked up when I go to the gym on Squat day. This is where testosterone is made.

(ME) Max Effort - working up to 1RM

(SE) Sub-Maximal Effort - straight sets at a set number of reps. i.e. xxx weight for 4 sets of 5. Nothing light here.

(DE) Dynamic Effort - moving a weight ( 40% to 60% of 1RM ) as fast as possible for small reps of 2 or 3. Think speed training.

(RE) Repitition Effort - Reps to failure. Rarely do this anymore.

Saturday - Max Effort Squat Day

Front Squats (ME)
Squats (ME) or Squats plus bands (ME)
Barbell Shrugs
Rack Pulls (ME)

Sunday - Max Effort Bench Press Day

Floor Presses (ME) or Floor Presses (ME) plus chains
Floor Presses Lockouts (ME)
DB One Arm Rows (SE) - heavy
Band Planks

Wednesday - Dynamic Effort / Deadlift Day

Olympic Movement (ME) or (DE)
Pendlay Rows (SE)
Romanian Deadlifts (SE) or (DE)

Thursday - Pressing Accessory Day

Military Press (ME) or (SE)
DB Floor Presses (SE)
Bradford Presses (RE) or DB Complex


----------



## alphaomega

Conrad said:


> Are you over 40?
> 
> If you aren't, you better delete that post.
> 
> Bragging don't cut it here.


Yes. Over 40. Lol. And who's bragging? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

alphaomega said:


> I do some warmup shoulder weights with really light weights before I get into the head vein popping lifting routine.


Sadly, no veins popping here. Lots of popping in the knees and back, though. To me, the biggest thing that is different about workouts these days is that I put so much thought into ramping up. Daily ramping up to prevent injuries. Cyclical ramping up when I finish a light cycle and begin to work up again. All of this was learned via serious injuries in the thirties, when I wasn't ready to give up the vein popping workouts. Its funny, because people often tell me that I look very young, but daily workouts are like being slapped with reality.

I don't know about others, but once I learned not to overtrain in the twenties, I rarely ever get sick. I attribute it to working out consistently since about 15 years old. Got my first cold in 15 years 3 years ago, and my first bout of the flu since I was 5 about 5 years ago.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Sadly, no veins popping here. Lots of popping in the knees and back, though. To me, the biggest thing that is different about workouts these days is that I put so much thought into ramping up. Daily ramping up to prevent injuries. Cyclical ramping up when I finish a light cycle and begin to work up again. All of this was learned via serious injuries in the thirties, when I wasn't ready to give up the vein popping workouts. Its funny, because people often tell me that I look very young, but daily workouts are like being slapped with reality.
> 
> I don't know about others, but once I learned not to overtrain in the twenties, I rarely ever get sick. I attribute it to working out consistently since about 15 years old. Got my first cold in 15 years 3 years ago, and my first bout of the flu since I was 5 about 5 years ago.


:iagree:

I totally agree. It is as much about recovery and diet as anything else. I stick with compound movements these days for the biggest bang for the effort. I lift heavy but it is a very methodical approach that I track closely. I spend a lot more time warming up and preparing to lift. I used to use a lot of volume but I am more selective now. I make sure I am resting and get good sleep. If not I back off my training. Otherwise I will hurt myself. I definitely ramp up my weights during a workout.

I do floor presses mostly as they are better on your shoulders.

I do the exercises at the beginning that require the most coordination. The sequencing of the exercises is key.


----------



## Halien

alphaomega said:


> I just ignore it and it goes away. Lol.
> 
> Nay in my shoulder. I do some warmup shoulder weights with really light weights before I get into the head vein popping lifting routine.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I should add that many people I know in the 40s and 50s can still work out with incredible intensity with no fear of injuries. Its so easy to hate these guys. Please tell me there was some pre-mature balding, alphaomega? Bifocals? Give us a bone?


----------



## LFC

I was out with a group of workmates last night.
Early in the day one of the lads commented that I look in shape.
Later on after a few beers he asked in a mocking way do you still do that low carb crap.He was talking to me with his 38 inch gut protruding over his belt.
..My tips hit a good program and stick to a good clean diet in my case low carb and Ross Enamaits programmes


----------



## alphaomega

Halien said:


> I should add that many people I know in the 40s and 50s can still work out with incredible intensity with no fear of injuries. Its so easy to hate these guys. Please tell me there was some pre-mature balding, alphaomega? Bifocals? Give us a bone?


lol. When I was in my mid twenties, I had an addiction to jogging. Sadly, I over did it, to the extreme. Started getting shin splints, but of course I ignored it. I ended up with some crutches for a few weeks because eventually my ligaments just told me "enough already, you stupid ***er!".

Since then, I still can't jog without them acting up. I do go on the reciprocal trainer, though. zero impact.

I guess that's why Leg workout day isn't my favorite.

No balding. Good genes, I guess. My old man is in his 90's and a full head of hair with no grey. No bifocals, but I do wear glasses now.


----------



## alphaomega

Oh. And my stomach is a little sensitive now. LOL! To much coke in university. (The drink, not the nose candy).

That stuff is nasty. I'm sure it fries your stomach pretty good.


----------



## alphaomega

LFC said:


> I was out with a group of workmates last night.
> Early in the day one of the lads commented that I look in shape.
> Later on after a few beers he asked in a mocking way do you still do that low carb crap.He was talking to me with his 38 inch gut protruding over his belt.
> ..My tips hit a good program and stick to a good clean diet in my case low carb and Ross Enamaits programmes


Interesting. I did a bulk up stage with protein and supplements during the winter. I still have 10 pounds on my stomach I just find impossible to lose. Frustrating.
:scratchhead::lol::lol:


----------



## PBear

Not a gym rat, but took up running at 41. Now 44. Never ran prior to that. Last year was pretty intensive training, and even with limited training in the last 8 weeks of the year still had over 3300 km (2000 miles). Goal was 4000 km. Did the Las Vegas Half Marathon, and even though I blew my goal because of the lack of training and my injury, I still placed in the top 3% overall. Not for my age group, but amongst all runners. And my age group is actually one of the most competitive, oddly enough.

What did me in at the end of the year was when I stopped stretching properly, and then not seeming a therapist to deal with the resulting injury. When I saw her, she used ART to break up the scar tissue in my hams and calves, and I was running shortly after again. But proper stretching has kept me injury free since.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

I’m 62 and better muscle definition now than ever before. I stopped smoking some 4 months ago after near 50 years and I leave the car on the drive. I walk everywhere and it’s very hilly round here. I’ve a backpack for my shopping and at times it’s quite heavy. It feels fabulous powering up the hills. I can feel my leg muscles growing. I’ve 300 sq yds of a garden that I dig over to plant my fruit and veg. It’s all fabulous exercise. The fruit and veg I eat is all organic and the fish fresh straight out of the Atlantic. I can only imagine it’s what things used to be like in times gone by, before automation, machines etc. For me it really is a lifestyle thing and I feel truly blessed and privileged.


----------



## Entropy3000

For me Squat day is a big deal. Yes, it is good physical activity. Yes, it is good for men as it promotes testosterone production.

But it is way more than that for me. I need the break from my work. Squat day takes my whole mental focus for that time. 

It is a very Zen thing. I prepare at the house by doing a very specific set of warmup activities. Most importantly I am preparing my mind. The GYM is fairly close so when I get there I am ready to go. I have already determined what I am going to do on that day. I ramp up gradually and build my mental intensity. I am all business. It is very much meditation. 

I leave myself some leeway for dynamic change but I have learned the hard way that when the endorphins are flowing I can make bad decisions. So I am always going for a PR of some kind, but I do not on Squat day just add another exercise for fun. A few years back after setting a PR in the Squat I decided to do some heavy Zercher Squats. I should have gone home after the Squats victorious. But no I ended up having bad form and herniated a disc. The bad form was caused from fatigue but I forced through it. BIG MISTAKE. So I had many months of rehabbing and I was back breaking PRs again, but I have learned from that the hard way.

When I am done and leave the GYM it is about coming down from the effort and blanking my mind. Making sure I get some nourishment within 20 minutes. Sometimes I actually take a nap it is so draining. So this takes some time and focus. But it actually prepares me for the upcoming week. Yes, this is an indulgence for me. But I need it. It refreshes me. I let the endophins wash over me. I feeling of well being and rightness with the world. I feel centered.

Now my other workouts are not quite the same. I do not have the time to devote the same intensity. But I do warmup and ramp up but I am often splitting some time on the computer in between sets. It varies in focus. Otherwise I would miss workouts because of distractions so I work them into my life.

I have a sun room that runs the length of the back of my home. In one corner of it, off our bedroom is my office. Next to my office is an exercise area. In the garrage I have a Squat Rack. So I go to the GYM for full focus on Squat day but do most of my other workouts at the house. I should go to the GYM more than I do. Planning on it anyway.

My point being that I need the exercise for my mind as much as anything else. I lift weigths because it suits me. 

It is so hot these days in Texas that I have stopped the long walks / jogs until the Fall. I usually walk / jog the trail with my wife or daughter when the weather is cool enough for me. I adjust my other workouts to accomodate. So if I am walking several days a week I amy only lift weights twice that week.


----------



## Entropy3000

AFEH said:


> I’m 62 and better muscle definition now than ever before. I stopped smoking some 4 months ago after near 50 years and I leave the car on the drive. I walk everywhere and it’s very hilly round here. I’ve a backpack for my shopping and at times it’s quite heavy. It feels fabulous powering up the hills. I can feel my leg muscles growing. I’ve 300 sq yds of a garden that I dig over to plant my fruit and veg. It’s all fabulous exercise. The fruit and veg I eat is all organic and the fish fresh straight out of the Atlantic. I can only imagine it’s what things used to be like in times gone by, before automation, machines etc. For me it really is a lifestyle thing and I feel truly blessed and privileged.


Awesome. That sounds fabulous.

I am 56. I absolutley look 35. Hereditary. I am dumb founded when I hear folks in their 30s complain they have gotten old.


----------



## txhunter54

Soupnutz said:


> Anybody got an opinion on just doing calisthenics? My daily excercise consists of running 2-3 miles with some interval sprints thrown in then about 30 minutes of calistehnics, (sets of 50 pushups until muscle failure, sets of 10 pull-ups until failure, 20 dips until failure), with some other stuff thrown in like crunches, squates, lunges, stuff like that. I realize I'll never be "buff", but thats not my goal, I just want definition and I hate going to the gym and waiting for weights and machines and stuff.


No, calisthenics is not enough. You need to add weight training. diet, weight training and cardio.


----------



## Deejo

Bumping my own zombie thread ...

Just re-read the whole thing. There is some great information here, and because I hadn't done it previously, thanks to everyone who contributed.


----------



## CanadianGuy

Thanks Deejo,

I am getting back into fitness again. I'm a hard gainer. Did weights to failure, Marital arts for 8+years. No weight gain, was fit but slim. 6'2" 180- 185. Could never ever break 190. I was doing creatine, drinks, diet - everything. Arg! Even went to the Doc to see if I was outa whack somewhere. No conclusive answers. Also my previous employment as a contractor was very physical. My question is this: Has anyone here ever tried P90X? 
I have a number of friends who do it and said it kicks their ass every time and works. Here is the link. P90X Workout - P90X Workout Review - P90X Extreme Home Fitness Workout Program - beachbody.com


----------



## Deejo

I've heard nothing but glowing reviews of P90X as far as infomercial fitness routines go. I actually own it, but haven't done the program.

But I don't believe it is geared towards gains in mass.

Appears to be geared towards increasing overall fitness level, sculpting, toning and reducing body fat.


----------



## GotMeWonderingNow

Deejo said:


> Body for Life Many people are probably familiar with this one based upon it's Before and After, 12 week challenge photos.


I remember this book; I read it many years ago (early 20's; I am now 38). I am in fact now just at the end of my latest 12 week challenge, but I probably didn't do too much of what is in that book. One thing I do remember from it is drinking water as soon as you wake, but I haven't even really been doing that! Still, I think my 12 week transformation would be good enough to get on the inside cover of that book...

I did this by:

1. Stressing over wife's EA. (Lost more than 20lbs net). 

2. Cardio (either x-trainer or cycle) 1 or 2 times a day for 30 minutes; usually just once though, but preferrably in the morning. 

3. When doing the exercise put everything into it... start out at a medium exertion for 10 minutes, medium-high for the next 10, high for the next 5-7 and insane for the last 2-3 (subject to ability). (I'm the only one who seems to sweat at the gym; I think most people are just there to hang out).

4. 3x a week training with weights... back/shoulders on Monday, biceps/triceps on Wednesday and chest on Friday. (Don't need to do legs since they are in very good shape as-is).

5. Diet - just eating more often, smaller portions. I still eat bad food (e.g., pizza), but not as much (and no McDonalds etc, ever). Also I have pretty much stayed clear of alcohol. Also using whey protein before/after exercise and a couple of other times each day, plus fat metabolizers in the morning.

At age 38 I am pretty happy with what I have achieved, just with that basic regime.


----------



## GotMeWonderingNow

AbsolutelyFree said:


> I'm 26 have never looked really good or muscular. As a teenager and in college I was underweight and skinny. Then after graduating I gained weight but still have small, wimpy arms and shoulders and a bit of a belly. I am 5'11 and about 170 pounds, but I feel like I am still skinny.
> 
> 
> Now, my understanding is that the best way to gain size is to eat a calorie excess while doing a lot of weight lifting, and limit cardiovascular exercise to about 20 minutes a day. I've read how bodybuilders will eat 3500 or 4000 calories daily when they are trying to gain size. This is easy to do if you drink whole milk, eat a lot of peanut butter, etc. Later on, after gaining weight, the focus is shifted to cardio exercise, with the intention of retaining most of the muscle mass while cutting down on fat.
> 
> 
> I'm nervous about trying this. I don't think the eating part would be a problem for me. I worry though that I'll hurt myself a month or two in and just end up becoming a fatty.
> 
> I really want to get into this though, and be in exceptional shape instead of just average.
> 
> My actual question is this -- Should I plunge into the high-calorie phase right away, or am I better off to lose the bit of belly that I have before trying it? Should I just lift weights with my regular diet to build some strength first? I am awfully wimpy as I said.
> 
> Of course that it would be wiser to post this question on a fitness forum (which is what I will do), but thought I might post it here as well.


I'm 5' 11" like you and in my late teens was around 150lbs. In short I was a skinny prick. To put on weight I basically did this:

1. Work out with weights 3-4 times a week (one of the worst things you can do is over-train). The rule of thumb was one body part per week.

2. Eat 5-6 meals a day. Don't eat crap. I would avoid whole milk - you want protein, not fat since you are trying to put on LEAN mass.

3. Get some weight gainer and use that.

4. Eat lots of protein (chicken, red meat, egg whites etc).

5. No or very little cardio (to maximize muscle growth).

After a couple of years of this regime I was up to 210 lbs and not long after that I was benching 300 lbs and believe it or not, despite the little cardio I was probably the leanest I ever was; the key was raising my metabolism by doing the above things.

The other rule of thumb I had at the time was that to keep a body weight you more or less had to be at that weight for 6 months before your body would think that was normal and try to maintain it.

That all said I did this at age 19-21. I found by the time I was 24 that my metabolism dropped off and I started to put on fat and went into a downward spiral of adding fat and losing muscle. Not training anymore didn't help either!

At my worst I got to 230lbs and looked/felt like crap.

The silver lining though is that if you have muscle you can generally get back in shape pretty quick just by hitting the weights again. I'm now 38 and got myself from fat (215lbs) to pretty darned tight (190 lbs and better muscle tone) in just 12 weeks.

Good luck.


----------



## Runs like Dog

I was looking at this and thought, pfft bunch a pansies.

Marine Corps Physical Fitness Test - Military Fitness - Military.com

That is just sad. I'm almost 60 and I can score 250.


----------



## Juicer

Runs like Dog said:


> I was looking at this and thought, pfft bunch a pansies.
> 
> Marine Corps Physical Fitness Test - Military Fitness - Military.com
> 
> That is just sad. I'm almost 60 and I can score 250.


Being able to score a 250 is not the whole story. Have you ever fought in a war? 

Can you shoot a man dead, and not think about it tomorrow?
Can you deal with being in a life-or-death situation for 1 year of active duty? Everyday of that year? Even when you're sleeping?
Can you keep your composure with bullets flying around your head, and body?
Can you keep your mind sharp after seeing your buddy get his arm blown off? Or your bunk mate having his legs blown off?

I know guys, more like kids because they are only in their 20's, that have had to do all that and more.

Just because you have the physical ability to do something, doesn't mean you have the mental ability as well.


----------



## 40isthenew20

I have to laugh when I hear people complaining that they just can't seem to lose any weight but they eat like crap. It's all diet. You can go to the gym for hours on end but stopping off at the McD's drive through on the way home nullifies it. 

Go all in or go home.


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## Matt1720

:iagree:

1,411 calories in a big mac combo or walk 9.5 miles

mmm big mac


----------



## RandomDude

My wife is my gym, especially with the positions she demands from me. I have to lift her full bodyweight and sustain it for quite a while each session.


----------



## heartsbeating

AFEH said:


> I’m 62 and better muscle definition now than ever before. I stopped smoking some 4 months ago after near 50 years and I leave the car on the drive. I walk everywhere and it’s very hilly round here. I’ve a backpack for my shopping and at times it’s quite heavy. It feels fabulous powering up the hills. I can feel my leg muscles growing. I’ve 300 sq yds of a garden that I dig over to plant my fruit and veg. It’s all fabulous exercise. The fruit and veg I eat is all organic and the fish fresh straight out of the Atlantic. I can only imagine it’s what things used to be like in times gone by, before automation, machines etc. For me it really is a lifestyle thing and I feel truly blessed and privileged.


You mentioned 'times gone by' and I was just sharing with a friend how fit my grandad was right up until his last years. He was physically fit and had good muscle tone. He never drove a car in his life, walked everywhere, would carry the groceries home a few times a week. He was in his 90's, walking a good 30mins from the store, carrying bags of groceries. He used to be a boxer and sang praises for jump rope and was also an avid gardener, and was very fit as a result.


----------



## changedbeliefs

I started Crossfit about 9 months ago now, and it has become just about my favorite thing to do. I've gained 14# of lean muscle, and lost 1# of body fat (I have not adopted a diet specifically to lose fat, I only aimed to stay "well fed" for performance). I am 41, and in the best shape of my life, and look better than I ever have. I can't wait to go, and take rest days regrettably. The people there are kindred spirits. My wife has received a lot of inquisition as to when she'll start, but has not taken the bait. I have not pushed, I have only indicated she has my full support (in terms of working to find time, and willigness to spend the money).

I will admit, it's been a double-edged sword: the up side is, like I said, I look and feel great, and she's made comments that it is a turn on for her. On the flip side, it is a paradox, to see these beautiful, fit, confident women at my box, and then deal with my wife and her insecurities (typical female, post-baby stuff....though kids were 10 years ago). For me, I'd love for her to look like and be like those women at my box, it's sexy as hell. For her, I think it would do wonders for her self-esteem, her confidence. For us, the shared experience would very likely help a lot. However, she has never been athletic, and any time it comes up, she only voices her intimidation and fears of trying it (along with, "I don't have time," and "it's a lot of money."). I can't make the horse drink, and I don't want to, it's got to be her own decision, ultimately.


----------



## wilson

changedbeliefs said:


> For her, I think it would do wonders for her self-esteem, her confidence. For us, the shared experience would very likely help a lot. However, she has never been athletic, and any time it comes up, she only voices her intimidation and fears of trying it (along with, "I don't have time," and "it's a lot of money."). I can't make the horse drink, and I don't want to, it's got to be her own decision, ultimately.


Crossfit is very intense and intimidating to a newbie. Even if technically she can do a lesser version of the workout, it can be too intimidating of an environment for her to even get started.

Instead, maybe try some exercises with her that she would like. Try things like Yoga and Zumba. Get some DVDs from the library and do them at home. She may see you do them and be encouraged to try them out. Then she may gradually try harder exercises and get a ripped body--or maybe she wont. But hopefully she'll do some sort of exercise on a regular basis and get the benefits of that.

From my experience, trying to force someone to exercise only backfires. If they are not willing to at least try, don't bother. You'll only make them dig their heels in and become even more sedentary.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

My 2 cents here.

Losing weight is about calorie control. Any diet that does not tell you to track calories is not going to work for you if you have long struggled with weight issues. Exercise plays a role here, but diet can ruin it so easily.

As in most things the basics of exercise are most important. You don't need fancy gear, a resort like gym, or sweet workout nickers. You just need to get out and move. If you are on the couch right now, any light to moderate activity you do consistently done regularly will be good. After that you want to engage in programs that provide and advancing challenge with each work out.

Diet - count calories
Cardio - at least 3 times a week
lift weights - at least 3 times a week
Flexibility - Two hours a week with a comprehensive stretching routine or Yoga. At least an hour each session.

Most people struggle with getting from out of shape to an active lifestyle. Once you are in the active lifestyle, then you can think about a fancy gym, advanced work out routines, speciality diets, or supplements. Most people never get there where this stuff makes a difference.


----------



## changedbeliefs

wilson said:


> Crossfit is very intense and intimidating to a newbie. Even if technically she can do a lesser version of the workout, it can be too intimidating of an environment for her to even get started.
> 
> Instead, maybe try some exercises with her that she would like. Try things like Yoga and Zumba. Get some DVDs from the library and do them at home. She may see you do them and be encouraged to try them out. Then she may gradually try harder exercises and get a ripped body--or maybe she wont. But hopefully she'll do some sort of exercise on a regular basis and get the benefits of that.
> 
> From my experience, trying to force someone to exercise only backfires. If they are not willing to at least try, don't bother. You'll only make them dig their heels in and become even more sedentary.


You're dead on. I started getting back into shape with P90X; she actually tried it before me, but just fell off the committment (this goes back to the issue where, for her, I believe exercise is merely a means to 'look good,' she hates doing it, does not see the challenge or accomplishment in it, she just hopes it makes her look better.....and just for me, potentially). I picked it up, to get in shape, but also to get reinspired and challenged, I was an athlete all my life. We had some friends who did Insanity, so I got that and started doing that, too. She did that at times, even has Insanity2 or whatever it is, and has tried that....but as soon as a schedule hiccup comes around, that's the first thing to fall off. It comes back to, like you said, I can't force it, it has to be something she wants to prioritize.

You're right about CF, it is intense and intimidating. My box is full of incredibly fit people, but also replete with average people, who do it less-than-maniacally, and people who are overweight and just trying to get moving. We have amazing coaches that I see give great attention to each of those types. I personally think CF can fit everyone, because it adapts to each person, not vice versa, but I realize it's not FOR everyone, necessarily. I'm only going to continue to be the example, do what I love, and present the opportunity and support to her.


----------



## John Lee

Demanding work and parenting (virtual toddler hand-offs as my wife is also in school while working) has left me little time for full gym workouts, so I've found a few things useful:

1) We bought a rowing machine through Costco. It was about $600, not cheap at all but given that we don't have a gym membership not crazy either. Even 15minutes on it at high resistance feels like I've done something.

2) Google the "New York Times Seven Minute Workout" (there are modified versions of it floating around too) -- it's not perfect, and it's not enough by itself, but if you really do the exercises one after the other, doing it also makes a big difference.

3) Resistance bands -- another thing where I can just squeeze in a few quick sets here and there. Almost no setup time.

4) Bodyweight exercises - same as above. Various kinds of modified pushups, dips (I do them between two "ledges" that jut from our kitchen counter), etc. I can always squeeze a few sets of these in -- while my toddler is eating breakfast or whatever. She probably thinks her dad is funny, but so what.


----------



## BaxJanson

I've recently turned my diet around quite a bit - focusing on cutting the sugars, dropped (nearly) all the soda, heavy on the proteins. I'm hitting mostly beef and steak, with the occasional starchy side. That, in combination with the nightly routines of the latest musical I'm in has me down almost 20 pounds in the last month. (Down to 265!)

I'd like to join a gym - mostly for the yoga classes - but have neither the time nor the money right now. I have a heavy bag I work at home, but I'm not very good at self-motivating at home yet. Too easy to sit down and veg. I do know I'd like to tone my stomach a bit - there are times I feel like I'm not so much losing weight as deflating, and the empty fat-sack hanging in front of me isn't very encouraging either. But one step at a time, right?


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## movealong

I am going to be implementing the circuit program this week. I haven't "really" worked out since I was in the Navy when I was a Field Medic (Doc) with the USMC. 

I've dropped from 225lbs down to 188lbs since April 26th when we had the final discussion and it was to divorce. Mostly by limiting food intake and eating better interspersed with some walking. But I really want to lose the last bit of gut and love handles I have left, and I want to get toned. 

I'll be 49 in October and I want to be in shape and looking GREAT by the time I hit 50.


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## heartsbeating

I believe the body can affect the mind and the mind can set the habits. It becomes self-perpetuating. 

Over the last few months I've been changing-up lifestyle choices. I actually thought I was reasonably healthy before. Now I reflect and recognize there was so much improvement needed. And I still have stuff to learn! Basically I now only go to the supermarket for toiletries. Food comes from the local markets and suppliers (local fish monger, butcher etc.). I'm more aware of where my food comes from and I have to say, there is a difference in taste too. It doesn't seem to cost more; instead there's more efficiency with what's needed. It's the basics ...cooking with butter or coconut oil. Cold-pressed oil or avocado for salads. Protein. Complex carbohydrates. Eating 4 - 6 meals a day. 

When hubs and I have been on the road all day, is when meals have proved difficult and I begin to derail. I've finally gotten a lunch-bag with ice packs to take meals with me. Preparing meals in advance is key. 

Who knew that I'd be eating oven-baked white fish with steamed broccoli as my first meal of the day? My focus is on body fat % instead of scale weight. I'm not sure what I can offer that would be useful to others, aside from simply promotion. Although my body fat percentage hasn't changed much yet - my husband has noticed tone developing, friends asked if I'd had a treatment done as they thought I looked younger and more refreshed, another friend commented that I looked the happiest she's seen me. The working-out (strength training) certainly helps with stress and to clear the mind. 

I'm 37 and my goal is to be at my fittest by the time I'm 40. Most of these exercises are completely new to me. I thought squats meant going to seat level. Now I'm squatting (proper style) with a barbell. I may complain or laugh as a coping mechanism at times, and when I'm starting the second set of lunges, question if it's worth it... but I know that it is and that keeps me going.


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## Deejo

heartsbeating said:


> I believe the body can affect the mind and the mind can set the habits. It becomes self-perpetuating.


Unless there is beer involved. Beer totally screws with that whole mind, body, thing.


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## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> Unless there is beer involved. Beer totally screws with that whole mind, body, thing.


True stories. 

Beer in the body... onion rings and fatty burger on the mind.


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## Caribbean Man

Deejo said:


> Unless there is beer involved. Beer totally screws with that whole mind, body, thing.


lol^^^.

But seriously, I don't have a problem with beer, I've switched to wine.

But know where my problem lies?

Iced Cream.

For the past two years I gave up Iced cream after seeing a vid on it and how it affects cardiovascular health.

Now I'm back on it again..


----------



## heartsbeating

Caribbean Man said:


> lol^^^.
> 
> But seriously, I don't have a problem with beer, I've switched to wine.
> 
> But know where my problem lies?
> 
> Iced Cream.
> 
> For the past two years I gave up Iced cream after seeing a vid on it and how it affects cardiovascular health.
> 
> Now I'm back on it again..


You fell off the ice-cream wagon! 

Wine is my weakness in social settings.


----------



## samyeagar

My biggest issue, what I want/need to work on is gaining about 10-20lbs of muscle, mainly in my upper body/shoulders. 5'7 135.


----------



## Caribbean Man

samyeagar said:


> My biggest issue, what I want/need to work on is gaining about 10-20lbs of muscle, mainly in my upper body/shoulders. 5'7 135.


Chin Up + Push ups + A steady diet of clean carbs and protein. Eat lots more food.

Go to Youtube and search " Chin Up" variations and " Push Up variations."


----------



## keeper63

I have been reasonably successful with the following regimen:

1.) My wife and I walk for 30 minutes each morning, weather permitting. We end up going about 2 miles or so. Not a super brisk pace, but quick enough that we sometimes have to pause for breath when we talk. I usually wear a 30 pound weight vest when I walk.

It's also a great time for us to re-connect and talk about things without any concerns about others hearing us.

2.) Weight training for about 30 minutes, 3x per week. I circuit train, combination of machines and free weights, with 30 seconds rest between sets and stations. Typically do 3 sets of 10 reps, but every two months, I will push the weight up so that I can only do 6-8 reps at that weight. Then I go back to a lower weight, higher rep routine.

My goal is to get as much work done in that 30 minutes as I can. At my age (early 50's), I'm more concerned with being slim and toned than I am about getting huge.

3.) Diet: I try to eat "cleanly" during the week, fresh juices, lots of water, diet biased towards protein but not a lot of red meat. Fish when I can find it on sale, fresh veggies from my garden or the farmer's market during the summer. I try to keep total calories as close to 2000 as I can.

I augment this with some competitive soccer, bike riding (on road and spinning class), and occasional yoga.

I feel pretty good most of the time, and I am frequently told I look younger than my age, and that I look better than most men my age.


----------



## wanttofix

Deejo said:


> I have never been a big guy. Worst period of my life was in my 20's I was on a drug called prednisone to treat asthma for about a month. I gained over 40 pounds. I felt gross. I looked gross. At 5 feet 10 inches, I'm most comfortable between 165 and 175. I am physically uncomfortable, including issues with sleeping, snoring, gastric problems and low energy when I get up into the 180's.
> 
> 
> My diet is generally good. Not great ...
> 
> I'd much rather eat food I cook rather than get processed, or fast food. I travel a good amount for work, and quite frankly, eating well on the road can be a PITA.
> On my last engagement, I discovered this place: Muscle Maker Grill - Home and I swear, were I able, I'd never eat any place else while on the road.
> 
> I have a very simple mantra when it comes to exercise: "Something is always better than nothing."
> 
> Used to be that if I didn't have an hour to do my workout, I'd blow it off with the attitude of, if your going to do it, do it right. But that really doesn't hold true when it comes to being active.
> 
> Now, my workouts seldom if ever, last more than 40 minutes, and if I only have 15 minutes in a hotel in the morning, I do some pushups, crunches, and use the stairs instead of the elevator.
> 
> Walking is tremendously underrated exercise. So once you're done reading this thread, go walk around for 5 minutes  or drop and give me 20.



My Fit Foods | Gluten Free, Bold Flavors, All Natural & On the Go is my favorite place. :smthumbup:

As far as fitness, I would do P90X if I had more time. But I am working all the time, like right now.


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## Machiavelli

Caribbean Man said:


> lol^^^.
> 
> But seriously, I don't have a problem with beer, I've switched to wine.
> 
> But know where my problem lies?
> 
> Iced Cream.
> 
> For the past two years I gave up Iced cream after seeing a vid on it and how it affects cardiovascular health.
> 
> Now I'm back on it again..


Get one of those electric churns that has the tub you put in the freezer overnight. Put in a pint of heavy whipping cream with a dash of your favorite DaVinci sugar free syrup and you've got quart of zero carb ice cream and no resulting cardiovascular distress.


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## committed4ever

My H told me something the other day that kind of hurt my feelings, but after doing some research I see that it is true.

My H is 6 ft 2, 33 years and if he probably did the bare minimum of exercise and ate on average they way most men eat he would be somewhere between skinny and lanky. Right after we had our baby he began to put on weight by choice and kept up his time in the gym so the weight just meant he looked more buff. It loved it but did not want him to get any more muscular than that. He had a really bad case of pneumonia late winter and was bedridden for a bit and then worked from home for a bit and lost the weight and was the size and cut he was before.

Meantime I increased my determination to exercise more, eat less and healthier so I could get back to my pre pregnancy weight which I have. Unlike him, I can gain weight by passing the ice cream freezer in a grocery store! So I have determine that both of us could eat a lot healthier, more good foods less bad foods.

Well, the other day my H told me that he appreciates how hard I have worked and that I look fantastic but my food plan sucks for him and is not working. So I did some research on tall men, weight lifting and diet and the consensus seems to be he really does need to eat more if he is going to build to where he wants to be. He has log arms, legs, but uncharateristic broad shoulders and chest which I think is not usually the case for long arms and legs.

Anyway, what I could not seem to find is the exact types of food he needs to eat more of. Frankly everything I was reading seem to advocate eating more junk type unhealthy food. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. This is the way my H wants to eat too but I just cannot believe that more calories has to mean more unhealthy calories. I had added stuff like granola, peanut butter, nuts, high sugar fruits, avacado, more veggies. He says that is not doing it for him. He wants more red meat, whole milk, FRIED chicken and ice cream. I do the grocery shopping and cooking since I am a SAHM so I don't mind doing this for him I just don't think its the right way to go! 

Are there any other tall, lean frame men out there? What has work for you to put on weight and body build. He doesnt want to be an extreme body build but apparently want more than what he is now. And sorry I didn't read the whole thread so if its in here somewhere I will go back and read all of it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

committed4ever said:


> My H told me something the other day that kind of hurt my feelings, but after doing some research I see that it is true.
> 
> My H is 6 ft 2, 33 years and if he probably did the bare minimum of exercise and ate on average they way most men eat he would be somewhere between skinny and lanky. Right after we had our baby he began to put on weight by choice and kept up his time in the gym so the weight just meant he looked more buff. It loved it but did not want him to get any more muscular than that. He had a really bad case of pneumonia late winter and was bedridden for a bit and then worked from home for a bit and lost the weight and was the size and cut he was before.
> 
> Meantime I increased my determination to exercise more, eat less and healthier so I could get back to my pre pregnancy weight which I have. Unlike him, I can gain weight by passing the ice cream freezer in a grocery store! So I have determine that both of us could eat a lot healthier, more good foods less bad foods.
> 
> Well, the other day my H told me that he appreciates how hard I have worked and that I look fantastic but my food plan sucks for him and is not working. So I did some research on tall men, weight lifting and diet and the consensus seems to be he really does need to eat more if he is going to build to where he wants to be. He has log arms, legs, but uncharateristic broad shoulders and chest which I think is not usually the case for long arms and legs.
> 
> Anyway, what I could not seem to find is the exact types of food he needs to eat more of. Frankly everything I was reading seem to advocate eating more junk type unhealthy food. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. This is the way my H wants to eat too but I just cannot believe that more calories has to mean more unhealthy calories. I had added stuff like granola, peanut butter, nuts, high sugar fruits, avacado, more veggies. He says that is not doing it for him. He wants more red meat, whole milk, FRIED chicken and ice cream. I do the grocery shopping and cooking since I am a SAHM so I don't mind doing this for him I just don't think its the right way to go!
> 
> Are there any other tall, lean frame men out there? What has work for you to put on weight and body build. He doesnt want to be an extreme body build but apparently want more than what he is now. And sorry I didn't read the whole thread so if its in here somewhere I will go back and read all of it.


Tall and formerly lean man here.

I put on size by eating an extremely high calorie diet.
I try to consume around 4000 calories / day.

But its difficult sometimes.

I've gotten the muscular , buff build on oats , peanut butter , lots of eggs, lots and lots of full cream [ whole] milk ,rice , yams , broccoli , lots of fish and in your Husband's case , meat.

I don't eat meat.

Some guys do the junk food thing and it works for them. Skinny guys tend to burn off excess fat [ bad calories] very quickly.

But your H sounds as if he's on the right track, tell him to try to focus on clean calories.

Also, olive oil , coconut oil and lots of nuts help put on good size.


----------



## committed4ever

Thanks CM. But did you mean HE is on the right track? He is the one who wants more red meat, fried chicken, ice cream, etc. I want the clean calories.

BTW I see some things you listed that I can try more of; yams, rice, eggs, whole creams. But I do want to avoid the fried meat, ice cream, etc. They seem like empty calories.


----------



## Machiavelli

committed4ever said:


> Thanks CM. But did you mean HE is on the right track? He is the one who wants more red meat, fried chicken, ice cream, etc. I want the clean calories.
> 
> BTW I see some things you listed that I can try more of; yams, rice, eggs, whole creams. But I do want to avoid the fried meat, ice cream, etc. They seem like empty calories.


Load up on all meats (grass fed if you can afford it). Big time. Frying is okay, just don't bread it and don't fry in "heart healthy" oils (they cause inflammation); use lard, bacon fat, butter, olive oil, etc. In fact, avoid all grains with the exception of corn on the cob. Eat mucho eggs, ideally with runny yolks to boost HDL. All vegetables are good and can be consumed in unlimited quantities while mass building. Eat sweet potatoes over yams, IMHO, and potatoes are okay in moderation. All fruits and berries are okay. He needs to get about 4500 cals per day while mass building. Use cod liver oil to boost Ω3, vitamin D, and Test (via vitamin A). Also eat tree nuts. Peanut butter that contains nothing but peanuts and salt is okay, but it's a phytoestrogen.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Machiavelli said:


> Get one of those electric churns that has the tub you put in the freezer overnight. Put in a pint of heavy whipping cream with a dash of your favorite DaVinci sugar free syrup and you've got quart of zero carb ice cream and no resulting cardiovascular distress.


wow. that really sounds like a great desert! I think I could actually adjust to a low carb diet if I could eat all the homemade ice cream I wanted. 

is there such a thing as a zero-carb junior mint?


----------



## Machiavelli

nuclearnightmare said:


> wow. that really sounds like a great desert! I think I could actually adjust to a low carb diet if I could eat all the homemade ice cream I wanted.
> 
> is there such a thing as a zero-carb junior mint?












Peppermint Paddy Sugar Free Syrup


----------



## maverick23

Some diet tricks for working professionals (forgive the lack of creative name):

-Mexican tuna lunch thing: 4 cans of Tuna (or canned chicken), 2 cans black beans, 1 can yellow corn, 1 can hot salsa, liberal red chili pepper flakes to taste.. Put in giant tupperware, mix it up and it is lunch for a week. Try to drain the water from the cans before you put the solids in - don;t want this to get any more watery. Also try not to look at it when you eat it.

-Oatmeal breakfast: Steel cut oats, whey protein powder, liberal cinnamon and/or nutmeg to taste, blueberries, almonds. throw in any other powder based supplement you may be on as well

-Egg thing: in a 6 x 8 inch pyrex, 2 cups of egg whites from the carton and 4 or so whole eggs, 3/4 pound ground turkey or buffalo (or beef i suppose), back at 375 for an hour. Nice thing about this, put on pure maple syrup for breakfast, or marinara/bbq/buffalo sauce for lunch


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## maverick23

Deconstructing P90X:

This is a well marketed exercise series. The secret sauce is a principle of variety and shock. Simply put, you could do a cable row exercise for 10 weeks and develop strength and endurance. Or, you could swap the row in your workout for a lat pulldown after 5 weeks. This will work your upper back in a different way, and result in greater increase in strength. The body has a stronger response to the new exercise because in evolutionary terms, it is a new threat to survival.

Side note: crossfit is an extreme example of this, not that I fully endorse it...

Takeaway: change up your workouts every so often to keep physical and mental momentum going, and buy a cheaper workout solution.


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## U.E. McGill

I crossfit 4x a week. That includes Wendler weight training and Oly lifting. 5x a week I trail run. I went from nothing to this since February. 

I eat paleo, including 3 eggs and bacon every day. I do have some carbs on days I lift heavy. 

I don't watch my weight although my pants feel like I've lost 20 lbs. 

I'm 41 and in great shape.


----------



## Jetranger

I have lots of fresh fruit for breakfast and lunch, and a normal dinner (chilli or chicken or whatever). I have the occasional snack with lunch (small sandwich or whatever) if I feel hungry.

I walk 7km home from work at least once a week, I ride my bike along trails at least four hours on the weekend. Last weekend I did 50km.

I've already gone down a waistband size, I have to keep making new holes in my belts to keep them snug (made the third new hole in my office clothes' belt just this week), all my non-slimfit t-shirts are starting to look too big. Very happy with my accomplishments. A year and a half ago I was 195lbs, my goal is 170lbs.


----------



## BostonBruins32

5'11 weighed about 178lbs when my wife needed space. (i have a delightful thread on my situation). Kicked into full 180 mode, including fitness.

Down to about 168-169lbs. Much stronger. Much better stamina for cardio activity. Weekly routine includes about 25 miles worth of jogging. 3 days of lifting. And the biggest key is the "my fitness pal" app. This thing is used to track your caloric intake. I use it very consistently. Excellent results. 

Wife doesn't notice/care, but I have had nice feed back at the beach, coworkers, and friends. 

get that app. It whas worked wonders.


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## changedbeliefs

maverick23 said:


> Side note: crossfit is an extreme example of this, not that I fully endorse it...
> 
> Takeaway: change up your workouts every so often to keep physical and mental momentum going, and buy a cheaper workout solution.


Crossfit: "Constantly Varied, High Intensity, Functional Movements." IMO, this approach IS for everyone, the key is, relating "high intensity" TO YOU. High intensity for me, is low intensity for someone else, or too high for yet another person. Don't aim for high intensity on a movement or a weight you're not experienced or proficient with. Any effective exercise program has to toe the line of, "pushing you beyond your current comfort zone/capabilties" and "being unsafe to your body." That's always the user's responsibility. My CF box has GREAT coaches, they are very in tune with pushing people within their abilities, yet discouraging dangerous things that may lead to injury. That's not to say that things don't get VERY sore, and may require a good bit of attention outside of the workouts. I spend a lot of time stretchng, foam rolling, etc.., and it makes a big difference. If don't do what's necessary to help my body recover, that's on me.


----------



## Fozzy

Update: down 22 lbs today on paleo/keto. throwing out some pants this weekend.


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## U.E. McGill

changedbeliefs said:


> Crossfit: "Constantly Varied, High Intensity, Functional Movements." IMO, this approach IS for everyone, the key is, relating "high intensity" TO YOU. High intensity for me, is low intensity for someone else, or too high for yet another person. Don't aim for high intensity on a movement or a weight you're not experienced or proficient with. Any effective exercise program has to toe the line of, "pushing you beyond your current comfort zone/capabilties" and "being unsafe to your body." That's always the user's responsibility. My CF box has GREAT coaches, they are very in tune with pushing people within their abilities, yet discouraging dangerous things that may lead to injury. That's not to say that things don't get VERY sore, and may require a good bit of attention outside of the workouts. I spend a lot of time stretchng, foam rolling, etc.., and it makes a big difference. If don't do what's necessary to help my body recover, that's on me.



My box the same. If you can't go thru the WOD at constant fast intensity and good form, it's better to scale down and get good form and continuous movement than having to constantly stop and also risk injury. 

We lift weight separately because of this. 

I always finish with mobility.


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## Thundarr

I've been hitting the Y 4-5 days per week for about 4 months now. Mostly cardio though. 

Plus have been push mowing my lawn every 3rd day. I'm sure my neighbors get annoyed at the shirtless old guy always mowing grass when they drive by but I want a little tan instead of the normal farmers tan.


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## GettingIt_2

changedbeliefs said:


> Crossfit: "Constantly Varied, High Intensity, Functional Movements." IMO, this approach IS for everyone, the key is, relating "high intensity" TO YOU. High intensity for me, is low intensity for someone else, or too high for yet another person. Don't aim for high intensity on a movement or a weight you're not experienced or proficient with. Any effective exercise program has to toe the line of, "pushing you beyond your current comfort zone/capabilties" and "being unsafe to your body." That's always the user's responsibility. My CF box has GREAT coaches, they are very in tune with pushing people within their abilities, yet discouraging dangerous things that may lead to injury. That's not to say that things don't get VERY sore, and may require a good bit of attention outside of the workouts. I spend a lot of time stretchng, foam rolling, etc.., and it makes a big difference. If don't do what's necessary to help my body recover, that's on me.


Ha, I had to read this to my husband today. I've been bugging him to try xfit for a long time, and my box was a having a promotion so he joined to do a nine class fundamentals course. First two classes went okay, then today he came home staggering and mad and full of baloney about why xfit is no good for people who don't have a basic level of fitness to begin with, and that doing a day of squats two days after a wall ball workout was a horrible idea blah blah blah. 

I asked him why he didn't scale back, or talk to the instructor about how sore he was after the second workout. He basically said that he didn't want to look like a wuss in front of the other people in the class. He knew he was over doing it when he was still not recovered from the previous workout, but he was blaming the program, and making noises like he might quit. 

Ugh, I felt like jumping on his head, but the poor man can barely walk. 

(Sorry, dear, if you are reading this. )

I cross fit three or four days a week and have been full paleo for more than a year. I've never felt better or been in better shape (I'm 44.) Like another poster said, I get antsy on my rest days--I'd be at that box 7 days a week if I could! 

Maybe that's why my husband sent me this?


----------



## john117

Cycling 10 miles a day planning to bump it to 12-15... Using a pretty decent hybrid bike... Lost a few pounds, more to go, unfortunately wifey has liberated my younger daughter's BMX bike and follows me. 

We live in a fairly bicycle friendly city so it's actually a lot of fun.


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## Haiku

Fitness is a routine part of my lifestyle so the home gym helps a lot. I felt it would be a good idea to find a new program that actually gets me out of the gym/house a little. So I'm taking up road biking. 

I don't have much free time right now but should have more soon. A personal goal is to get one 1000 mile month in before the season is over.


----------



## GettingIt_2

john117 said:


> Cycling 10 miles a day planning to bump it to 12-15... Using a pretty decent hybrid bike... Lost a few pounds, more to go, *unfortunately wifey has liberated my younger daughter's BMX bike and follows me. *
> 
> We live in a fairly bicycle friendly city so it's actually a lot of fun.



What! You and your wife are spending some recreational time together? Horrors! Just think of the other impure activities such wantonness could lead to . . .


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## john117

I was hoping for an incident with unruly wildlife... 

View attachment 26802


Just came back from my first ever 15 mile ride. Wasn't all that bad actually (the ride ).


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## GettingIt_2

john117 said:


> I was hoping for an incident with unruly wildlife...
> 
> View attachment 26802
> 
> 
> Just came back from my first ever 15 mile ride. Wasn't all that bad actually (the ride ).


Keep it up--eventually you'll be able to outrun your wife if she ventures to accompany you. 

How is your overall fitness level? Improving? Add a set of pushups and squats and planks every few miles.


----------



## jld

john117 said:


> Cycling 10 miles a day planning to bump it to 12-15... Using a pretty decent hybrid bike... Lost a few pounds, more to go, un*fortunately wifey has liberated my younger daughter's BMX bike and follows me. *
> 
> We live in a fairly bicycle friendly city so it's actually a lot of fun.


Fixed that for you. 

That is great news, john. It truly is.


----------



## Thundarr

GettingIt said:


> Add a set of pushups and squats and planks every few miles.


what? ... WHAT ??? now you're just being mean.

kd. A little bit of strength training goes a long way. I do a few minutes after most cardio. Really some leg press or squats would be the best but my knees are a problem. But last time after I hopped off of the treadmill I popped out 55 pushups. Not too bad.


----------



## jld

John, Dug just said that he is glad to hear it. He says that she is seeking you out. Good job!


----------



## john117

jld said:


> Fixed that for you.
> 
> 
> 
> That is great news, john. It truly is.



Not so fast... She maintains any other physical activity is off the table since she "has a lot of things in her mind (ie work)". 

All of a sudden I found out I have a lot of things in my mind too, that preclude talking :lol:


----------



## GettingIt_2

Thundarr said:


> what? ... WHAT ??? now you're just being mean.
> 
> kd. A little bit of strength training goes a long way. I do a few minutes after most cardio. Really some leg press or squats would be the best but my knees are a problem. But last time after I hopped off of the treadmill I popped out 55 pushups. Not too bad.


Yeah, I hardly ever do more than 20-30 minutes of straight cardio workouts (unless I'm out recreationally biking or hiking or rail running or something.) Mixing in strength movements can kick your butt in 20 minutes or less. If my choice is to run for an hour, or to alternate 200 m sprints and thrusters or (cleans or snatches or whatever) for 12 minutes and then be on with my day, I'll take the latter. 

If you can pop out 55 chest to floor pushups, its time to vary your hand position and make it a challenge again!


----------



## U.E. McGill

Murph.


----------



## GettingIt_2

U.E. McGill said:


> Murph.


Word.


----------



## Fozzy

So now i've gone and jacked my rotator cuff. Don't know if it's torn or what, but weightlifting is going to have to get scaled back now. This really sucks, because i HATE cardio. I need to find some exercises to help rehab the shoulder.

F getting old.


----------



## Thundarr

Fozzy said:


> So now i've gone and jacked my rotator cuff. Don't know if it's torn or what, but weightlifting is going to have to get scaled back now. This really sucks, because i HATE cardio. I need to find some exercises to help rehab the shoulder.
> 
> F getting old.


Years back I messed up my right shoulder doing dips. I took a few weeks doing very lightweight high rep sets on the bench press and avoided dips all together. It healed up quick. By lightweight I mean the first week was sets of 65lbs on the bench press and I'd do 50-100 reps. I bumped up to 95lbs week #2 and 135lbs week #3. It was good because I had gained some strength when I loaded it back up on week #4 and added dips back in as well.

But all injuries are unique.


----------



## Haiku

Thundarr said:


> Years back I messed up my right shoulder doing dips. I took a few weeks of lightweight high rep sets and it healed up quick. By lightweight I mean the first week was sets of 65lbs I'd do 50-100 reps. I bumped up to 95lbs week #2 and 135lbs week #3. It was good because I had gained some strength when I loaded it back up on week #4.
> 
> But all injuries are unique.


Wow. You did weighted dips of 50-100 @ 65, 95, and then 135 pounds? That's impressive.


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

I could use some advice. First, some background information 

Male
32
5'11
205
Body Fat 25%

I couldn't care less what the scale says, I care about what the mirror says. And right now it says you've got love handles and a belly. 
I have lots of time, but no money. Gym membership is a no go. 
Something involving my own body weight would be great. 
I have 3 kids at home until school starts, and then it's just one. Something they could be involved in would be a bonus. 
As I understand it, sleep is important. I do very badly on this, and I don't foresee it changing for a long time. 
I live in Tampa Bay, so outside stuff isn't much fun. It's 90 degrees and the humidity hovers around 700%. 

I know it's a lot of restrictions, but any advice on what I can do to get myself into better shape?


----------



## Thundarr

Haiku said:


> Wow. You did weighted dips of 50-100 @ 65, 95, and then 135 pounds? That's impressive.


Oh sorry Haiku. I didn't mean weight dips. I was talking about light weight on the bench press. I stopped doing dips all together and started doing (super light weight) on the bench until my shoulder healed up.

I agree with you that would have been impressive. Too impressive.


----------



## Haiku

Thundarr said:


> Oh sorry Haiku. I didn't mean weight dips. I was talking about light weight on the bench press. I stopped doing dips all together and started doing (super light weight) on the bench until my shoulder healed up.
> 
> I agree with you that would have been impressive. Too impressive.


No problem. Thanks for the clarification. You have my sympathies for shoulder problem. I have a variety of ortho issues (primarily knees, elbow, hip, and neck) but grateful it was never my shoulders. I've been in more rehab than I like to remember and I won't forget those poor guys rehabbing their shoulders. I count myself lucky that I can be pretty comfortable being semi sedentary rather than in pain doing some innocuous motion like reaching for the salt or my beer. 

Jakobi - one cannot spot lose bf so to lose "love handles" requires the reduction across the whole body. I'm short of time so if someone doesn't give you some advice I'll give you my opinion later. You have a lot of advantages: young, healthy, proportions that are not bad at all, and motivated.


----------



## Thundarr

Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> I could use some advice. First, some background information
> 
> Male
> 32
> 5'11
> 205
> Body Fat 25%
> 
> I couldn't care less what the scale says, I care about what the mirror says. And right now it says you've got love handles and a belly.
> I have lots of time, but no money. Gym membership is a no go.
> Something involving my own body weight would be great.
> I have 3 kids at home until school starts, and then it's just one. Something they could be involved in would be a bonus.
> As I understand it, sleep is important. I do very badly on this, and I don't foresee it changing for a long time.
> I live in Tampa Bay, so outside stuff isn't much fun. It's 90 degrees and the humidity hovers around 700%.
> 
> I know it's a lot of restrictions, but any advice on what I can do to get myself into better shape?


Jakobi how's your diet? What do you eat during a normal day? You can probably make a few little changes in diet and reduce your body fat a lot without being hungry.

You can get a lot out of 10 minutes of exercise as well. A few sets of Pushups, pullups, curls, or lunges each day will build muscle which in turn burns body fat. I'm a big fan of body weight exercises.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Body fat is diet. Now you can add muscle mass, but ultimately you need to have less calories in than out. Then have a good balance of aerobic and weight training. 

No offense "there's no money for a gym" is bull hockey. Even a place like retro is 20 bucks a month. Tell me you have cable but no gym membership?

That being said. Google "body weight wod". If you workout in the morning and run trails then do a body weight workout it will be a good start. Hydrate hydrate hydrate and you'd be surprised how hot you can take.


----------



## Coffee Amore

Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> I couldn't care less what the scale says, I care about what the mirror says. And right now it says you've got love handles and a belly.
> I have lots of time, but no money. Gym membership is a no go.
> Something involving my own body weight would be great.
> I have 3 kids at home until school starts, and then it's just one. Something they could be involved in would be a bonus.
> As I understand it, sleep is important. I do very badly on this, and I don't foresee it changing for a long time.
> I live in Tampa Bay, so outside stuff isn't much fun. It's 90 degrees and the humidity hovers around 700%.
> 
> I know it's a lot of restrictions, but any advice on what I can do to get myself into better shape?


To beat a dead horse, you can't spot reduce. You'll have to lower your overall body fat to get rid of the love handles and belly. You don't seem like you have a lot to lose.

You don't have to go to a gym to get a good workout. You just need some space in your home, some free weights that are challenging enough for you, and maybe some exercises DVDs such as the P90X or P90X3. There are a lot of DVDs on the market now for the home exerciser, so check those out on amazon.com or the stores. You don't even have to buy DVDs if you don't want to, Youtube has a lot of workouts for men. Also, check out fitnessblender.com. It has free full-length workouts.
Full Length Workouts - Fitness Blender


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

Thundarr said:


> Jakobi how's your diet? What do you eat during a normal day? You can probably make a few little changes in diet and reduce your body fat a lot without being hungry.
> 
> You can get a lot out of 10 minutes of exercise as well. A few sets of Pushups, pullups, curls, or lunges each day will build muscle which in turn burns body fat. I'm a big fan of body weight exercises.


Body weight exercise makes sense to me. The best shape I've ever been in was my senior year of high school. Between my junior and senior year I did Basic Combat Training at Ft Sill Oklahoma. Lifting weights was never done. I did more push ups in that summer then I'll likely do for the entire other part of my life. My diet would be the simple fix I think. I know that any soda is too much, and I drink my share. I work at Dunkin Donuts/Baskin Robins. Its not like I'm eating a dozen donuts and drinking milkshakes all night. But its usually a ham egg and cheese on a croissant and chocolate milk at work.



U.E. McGill said:


> Body fat is diet. Now you can add muscle mass, but ultimately you need to have less calories in than out. Then have a good balance of aerobic and weight training.
> 
> No offense "there's no money for a gym" is bull hockey. Even a place like retro is 20 bucks a month. Tell me you have cable but no gym membership?
> 
> That being said. Google "body weight wod". If you workout in the morning and run trails then do a body weight workout it will be a good start. Hydrate hydrate hydrate and you'd be surprised how hot you can take.


I have cable but no gym membership.

There is more to it then just the cost of the gym membership though. I work 3rd shift, and play Mr. Mom all day. When my wife gets home the only exercise I'm interested in is the kind where I pick the sheets up off the floor and my wife tucks me into bed. I've got a kid in summer school, and two at home all day. If I'm going to be working outside, they have to be with me. I understand hydration having done BCT. My wife and I have one car. I am the child care. Going to the gym would cost a lot more then the price of membership. Doing something at home is the simplest solution. 



Coffee Amore said:


> To beat a dead horse, you can't spot reduce. You'll have to lower your overall body fat to get rid of the love handles and belly. You don't seem like you have a lot to lose.
> 
> You don't have to go to a gym to get a good workout. You just need some space in your home, some free weights that are challenging enough for you, and maybe some exercises DVDs such as the P90X or P90X3. There are a lot of DVDs on the market now for the home exerciser, so check those out on amazon.com or the stores. You don't even have to buy DVDs if you don't want to, Youtube has a lot of workouts for men. Also, check out fitnessblender.com. It has free full-length workouts.
> Full Length Workouts - Fitness Blender


I feel like the only place on me that is fat is my middle, so I'd be spot removing fat by default. My computer is in my living room, so grabbing videos from youtube is certainly an option. I've heard of P90X, but don't have any actual knowledge of it. Just name recognition.


----------



## BostonBruins32

john117 said:


> Not so fast... She maintains any other physical activity is off the table since she "has a lot of things in her mind (ie work)".
> 
> All of a sudden I found out I have a lot of things in my mind too, that preclude talking :lol:


Thankfully those headaches, stomach aches, and fatigue don't impact bike riding.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> Body weight exercise makes sense to me. The best shape I've ever been in was my senior year of high school. Between my junior and senior year I did Basic Combat Training at Ft Sill Oklahoma. Lifting weights was never done. I did more push ups in that summer then I'll likely do for the entire other part of my life. My diet would be the simple fix I think. I know that any soda is too much, and I drink my share. I work at Dunkin Donuts/Baskin Robins. Its not like I'm eating a dozen donuts and drinking milkshakes all night. But its usually a ham egg and cheese on a croissant and chocolate milk at work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have cable but no gym membership.
> 
> 
> 
> There is more to it then just the cost of the gym membership though. I work 3rd shift, and play Mr. Mom all day. When my wife gets home the only exercise I'm interested in is the kind where I pick the sheets up off the floor and my wife tucks me into bed. I've got a kid in summer school, and two at home all day. If I'm going to be working outside, they have to be with me. I understand hydration having done BCT. My wife and I have one car. I am the child care. Going to the gym would cost a lot more then the price of membership. Doing something at home is the simplest solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Here's the thing. I'm reading between the lines, I realize that. Part of getting in shape is scheduling it. You must make it priority #1. Yes #1. Not 2nd. Not 3rd. #1.
> 
> Trust me, if you don't something will always come up. In my house I keep the schedule regardless. My wife accidentally told her friends we'd come to dinner for 6, when there's no way I can be home and showered by then. I travel extensively so I'm not flexible at home. She was liken"well can you skip?" I told her "I'll meet you there when in done."
> 
> This may seem pretty ruthless, but if I don't make it a priority no one will.
> 
> Schedule it. Get 7-8 hours of sleep. Eat right. Everything else is an excuse.


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

U.E. McGill said:


> Jakobi Greenleaf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Body weight exercise makes sense to me. The best shape I've ever been in was my senior year of high school. Between my junior and senior year I did Basic Combat Training at Ft Sill Oklahoma. Lifting weights was never done. I did more push ups in that summer then I'll likely do for the entire other part of my life. My diet would be the simple fix I think. I know that any soda is too much, and I drink my share. I work at Dunkin Donuts/Baskin Robins. Its not like I'm eating a dozen donuts and drinking milkshakes all night. But its usually a ham egg and cheese on a croissant and chocolate milk at work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have cable but no gym membership.
> 
> 
> 
> There is more to it then just the cost of the gym membership though. I work 3rd shift, and play Mr. Mom all day. When my wife gets home the only exercise I'm interested in is the kind where I pick the sheets up off the floor and my wife tucks me into bed. I've got a kid in summer school, and two at home all day. If I'm going to be working outside, they have to be with me. I understand hydration having done BCT. My wife and I have one car. I am the child care. Going to the gym would cost a lot more then the price of membership. Doing something at home is the simplest solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Here's the thing. I'm reading between the lines, I realize that. Part of getting in shape is scheduling it. You must make it priority #1. Yes #1. Not 2nd. Not 3rd. #1.
> 
> Trust me, if you don't something will always come up. In my house I keep the schedule regardless. My wife accidentally told her friends we'd come to dinner for 6, when there's no way I can be home and showered by then. I travel extensively so I'm not flexible at home. She was liken"well can you skip?" I told her "I'll meet you there when in done."
> 
> This may seem pretty ruthless, but if I don't make it a priority no one will.
> 
> Schedule it. Get 7-8 hours of sleep. Eat right. Everything else is an excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time I have plenty of. I can schedule exercise for 8am six days a week. Eating right will be a work in progress, but it can be done. No way I'm getting 8 hours of sleep in one night. I'll be lucky to have eight hours between today and tomorrow. not much I can do about that for now. The only real problem is that exercise has to be done at home because I've got kids. If its as simple as finding something on youtube, I should be in pretty good shape.
Click to expand...


----------



## john117

BostonBruins32 said:


> Thankfully those headaches, stomach aches, and fatigue don't impact bike riding.



After a 15 mile cycle ride I'm so dead I will be glad to offer any of the above excuses even if Hale Berry was asking...

It's getting better but it's difficult to read stories about people my age who had stents or bypass work done a year ago and can do 30 miles or 50 miles a day. It's mind blowing and I have all OEM parts


----------



## jld

john117 said:


> After a 15 mile cycle ride I'm so dead I will be glad to offer any of the above excuses even if Hale Berry was asking...
> 
> It's getting better but it's difficult to read stories about people my age who had stents or bypass work done a year ago and can do 30 miles or 50 miles a day. It's mind blowing and I have all OEM parts


If you don't want heart problems, stay away from animal products. Ever read _Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease_, by Caldwell Esselstyn, Bill Clinton's cardiologist?


----------



## U.E. McGill

jld said:


> If you don't want heart problems, stay away from animal products. Ever read _Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease_, by Caldwell Esselstyn, Bill Clinton's cardiologist?



See now I'd say just the opposite. Eat your eggs and beef and stay away from wheat and soy.


----------



## john117

We do a bit of both. A lot less meat than the typical American diet and lots of veg protein. Can't see us go paleo or vegan tho.


----------



## treyvion

BostonBruins32 said:


> 5'11 weighed about 178lbs when my wife needed space. (i have a delightful thread on my situation). Kicked into full 180 mode, including fitness.
> 
> Down to about 168-169lbs. Much stronger. Much better stamina for cardio activity. Weekly routine includes about 25 miles worth of jogging. 3 days of lifting. And the biggest key is the "my fitness pal" app. This thing is used to track your caloric intake. I use it very consistently. Excellent results.
> 
> Wife doesn't notice/care, but I have had nice feed back at the beach, coworkers, and friends.
> 
> get that app. It whas worked wonders.


Have you ever considered that you just might not be her favorite. Even if you were plated in gold and the entire world knew, she might have just been content using you as a doorstop.


----------



## GettingIt_2

U.E. McGill said:


> See now I'd say just the opposite. Eat your eggs and beef and stay away from wheat and soy.



And mmmmmmmm . . . bacon (uncured humanely raised, of course). 

Too bad I can't afford to eat it more than once and awhile.


----------



## U.E. McGill

GettingIt said:


> And mmmmmmmm . . . bacon (uncured humanely raised, of course).
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad I can't afford to eat it more than once and awhile.



And lots of fish oil omega 3's too.


----------



## GettingIt_2

U.E. McGill said:


> And lots of fish oil omega 3's too.


Weird, I just had a conversation with my husband about fish oil five minutes ago. I've been remiss in adding it, but have been meaning to for awhile. I used to take it, but hated the after taste. I was reading this, which was a lot of information to process. 

Confessions of a Crossfit Coach: Everything You Wanted To Know About Fish Oil. Ever.

My xfit coach recommended building up to 3g a day. 

How much do you take, and of what type/brand?


----------



## Thundarr

Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> U.E. McGill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time I have plenty of. I can schedule exercise for 8am six days a week. Eating right will be a work in progress, but it can be done. No way I'm getting 8 hours of sleep in one night. I'll be lucky to have eight hours between today and tomorrow. not much I can do about that for now. The only real problem is that exercise has to be done at home because I've got kids. If its as simple as finding something on youtube, I should be in pretty good shape.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure continuous sleep is best but if you get only 4-5 hours nightly then maybe a power nap here and there will help. When working third shift, I'd wake after 4 hours of sleep. If I got up then the next night was rough but if I stayed in bed and some got bad sleep (when it felt like I was laying there awake) then I functioned much better the next night. That makes me thing that even without sleep, you should attempted to get rest or power naps.
> 
> Regarding the food. Working at a doughnut place would be the end of me. Good luck .
> 
> I've heard a saying and I hate it. I believe it but hate it because food is good.
> - you can out diet no exercise but you can't out exercise a bad diet.
Click to expand...


----------



## Thundarr

GettingIt said:


> Weird, I just had a conversation with my husband about fish oil five minutes ago. I've been remiss in adding it, but have been meaning to for awhile. I used to take it, but hated the after taste. I was reading this, which was a lot of information to process.


Codd liver oil was almost the end of me. I must be allergic to it but after a week of taking it I couldn't keep by breath, maybe it was anxiety. Then it took a couple of weeks to work out of my system. Miserable.


----------



## GettingIt_2

Thundarr said:


> Codd liver oil was almost the end of me. I must be allergic to it but after a week of taking it I couldn't keep by breath, maybe it was anxiety. Then it took a couple of weeks to work out of my system. Miserable.


Um, that would be bad! I'm super sensitive to medication--it ALL makes me either hyper or doped out. Hope its not the same for supplements . . . so far no problems, but then again I don't take many. I'll have to read up on side effects/reactions to fish oil!


----------



## Sunburn

jld said:


> If you don't want heart problems, stay away from animal products. Ever read _Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease_, by Caldwell Esselstyn, Bill Clinton's cardiologist?


Right

I never saw a farmer herding Big Mac's


----------



## Thundarr

GettingIt said:


> Um, that would be bad! I'm super sensitive to medication--it ALL makes me either hyper or doped out. Hope its not the same for supplements . . . so far no problems, but then again I don't take many. I'll have to read up on side effects/reactions to fish oil!


I'm usually fine with about any medications, supplements, foods, etc. Plus I think it's really rare to have problems with fish oil.


----------



## Thundarr

GettingIt said:


> Um, that would be bad! I'm super sensitive to medication--it ALL makes me either hyper or doped out. Hope its not the same for supplements . . . so far no problems, but then again I don't take many. I'll have to read up on side effects/reactions to fish oil!


I'm usually fine with about any medications, supplements, foods, etc. And it's really rare to have problems with fish oil.


----------



## john117

Sunburn said:


> Right
> 
> 
> 
> I never saw a farmer herding Big Mac's



I have seen how pigs lived in my village after EU subsidies came in. The oinksters had it better than us kids... The taste was out of this world also.

Once you try real food you will never go to the super processed American cuisine.


----------



## donny64

Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> I feel like the only place on me that is fat is my middle, so I'd be spot removing fat by default. My computer is in my living room, so grabbing videos from youtube is certainly an option. I've heard of P90X, but don't have any actual knowledge of it. Just name recognition.


P90X is a great solution for those short on time, and / or who don't want to go to the gym, or are just unsure of what they're doing.

I started P90X3 just over five months ago, and am a couple weeks away from completing my 2nd round (going for 3 rounds before I back off). At 48 yrs, 6'0", and 255 lbs, I needed to do something. How I got there so fast I'm not sure, but I did. And I looked and felt horrible.

In that time, I've lost 30 lbs, 13% body fat, 6 inches off my waist, 5 off my hips, and 22" overall. Just from "eating right" and doing P90X3 for 30 minutes a day, 5 to 6 days a week.

The program was about $120, and I bought a pull up bar and some dumbells. Total investment about $250. I add a couple heavier dumbells every few weeks or so as I progress to keep the "up front" costs easier to swallow.

I'm sold on the program. I am still about 13 pounds heavier than my lowest weight in 20 years, but look much better. I weighed less before, but I was "skinny-fat" from running, and not doing any resistance training. I'm also an inch down in my belt from my low weight when I was running, and weighed less. 

I've still got 20 pounds or so to go to get to my 12% bodyfat goal, but imagine another 4 months of this, and I'll be pretty close to it.


----------



## Thundarr

donny64 said:


> P90X is a great solution for those short on time, and


Yes this is true. P90X3 is 30 minutes average. But I can't get used hearing P90X being anything other than long torture. We did the first one multiple times and it was about 1.5 hours every day.

But it worked. I'm sure P90X3 works great too. IMO it's the best option out there.


----------



## donny64

Thundarr said:


> Yes this is true. P90X3 is 30 minutes average. But I can't get used hearing P90X being anything other than long torture. We did the first one multiple times and it was about 1.5 hours every day.
> 
> But it worked. I'm sure P90X3 works great too. IMO it's the best option out there.


I'm in competition with a buddy right now...deciding factor will be lowest body fat by Nov 7th. He's been doing P90X for the past 5 months, while I've been doing X3. He's lost 20 pounds, I've lost 30. Granted, I had more to go, but now we're about the same, and he's getting pretty ticked his extra 30 to 45 minutes a day above and beyond what I'm doing does not have him strongly in the lead! 

I know this much, in the first 6 weeks of my 2nd 90 day round of X3, I started doing the "doubles" schedule, looking to accelerate my fitness. By week 5, my energy was down, I didn't feel strong...felt weak in fact, and I was dreading the nightly workouts. I went back to the standard schedule, and have noticed no difference in rate of weight loss, and my energy, stamina, and motivation are better.

There is something to be said for a good workout you can do in 30 minutes and get good results. Hugely motivating.


----------



## U.E. McGill

GettingIt said:


> Weird, I just had a conversation with my husband about fish oil five minutes ago. I've been remiss in adding it, but have been meaning to for awhile. I used to take it, but hated the after taste. I was reading this, which was a lot of information to process.
> 
> 
> 
> Confessions of a Crossfit Coach: Everything You Wanted To Know About Fish Oil. Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> My xfit coach recommended building up to 3g a day.
> 
> 
> 
> How much do you take, and of what type/brand?



Sorry I missed this. I use now foods ultra (Amazon). I take 3-4 g total depending on how much I'm battling recovery.


----------



## U.E. McGill

donny64 said:


> I'm in competition with a buddy right now...deciding factor will be lowest body fat by Nov 7th. He's been doing P90X for the past 5 months, while I've been doing X3. He's lost 20 pounds, I've lost 30. Granted, I had more to go, but now we're about the same, and he's getting pretty ticked his extra 30 to 45 minutes a day above and beyond what I'm doing does not have him strongly in the lead!
> 
> 
> 
> I know this much, in the first 6 weeks of my 2nd 90 day round of X3, I started doing the "doubles" schedule, looking to accelerate my fitness. By week 5, my energy was down, I didn't feel strong...felt weak in fact, and I was dreading the nightly workouts. I went back to the standard schedule, and have noticed no difference in rate of weight loss, and my energy, stamina, and motivation are better.
> 
> 
> 
> There is something to be said for a good workout you can do in 30 minutes and get good results. Hugely motivating.



If you want to add a second met-con lay off the resistance and just do straight cardio. I run in the morning then lift/crossfit. With the p90 your need to give your slow twitch muscles time to repair. Also are you using supplements?


----------



## committed4ever

On another note altogether I finally made up mind to tell my H I do not want him to gain any more weight/bulk, that I LOVE more the lean slim build with broad chest and shoulders, nice defined guns, six pack and that I really don't care if it means he will have skinny legs. I ask him why he wants more weight and bulk and he says its just something he always wanted. He is 6'2, was an athlete all of his childhood through high school, had a serious injury that ruined his college BB career before it got started, was thought to ruin his chance to be athletic for the rest of his life but he overcame it through rehab and has been in the gym ever since. 

He just feels like its easier for him to gain weight/bulk now that he is older. Since I never said anything (because I feel like a person should do what they want with their own body as long as its healthy), he didnt think I cared one way or the other. He was surprise I even brought it up. But since he has always had to eat to maintain weight and I have tried to help him with this with my cooking, he just thought I would not be opposed. 

It was just an interesting conversation because after 9 years of marriage and the way I am always all over his body feeling him up, rubbing, touching I would have thought he knew I love it just the way it is. Maybe because I have tease him about his skinny legs? They are really muscular and toned, just not big although they are a little bigger now since he has been gaining weight.


----------



## Thundarr

donny64 said:


> I'm in competition with a buddy right now...deciding factor will be lowest body fat by Nov 7th. He's been doing P90X for the past 5 months, while I've been doing X3. He's lost 20 pounds, I've lost 30. Granted, I had more to go, but now we're about the same, and he's getting pretty ticked his extra 30 to 45 minutes a day above and beyond what I'm doing does not have him strongly in the lead!
> 
> I know this much, in the first 6 weeks of my 2nd 90 day round of X3, I started doing the "doubles" schedule, looking to accelerate my fitness. By week 5, my energy was down, I didn't feel strong...felt weak in fact, and I was dreading the nightly workouts. I went back to the standard schedule, and have noticed no difference in rate of weight loss, and my energy, stamina, and motivation are better.
> 
> There is something to be said for a good workout you can do in 30 minutes and get good results. Hugely motivating.


P90X had me in my best shape since I was young so I'm looking forward to P90X3. I've had the disks laying on my desk for a couple of months now but just haven't switched gears yet. For the past 4 months or so I've been push mowing my lawn, hitting the tread mill, and getting little bits of weights in.

I'll do P90X3 in the garage and it's just so hot now. I'm thinking we start it in September.


----------



## Thundarr

committed4ever said:


> On another note altogether I finally made up mind to tell my H I do not want him to gain any more weight/bulk, that I LOVE more the lean slim build with broad chest and shoulders, nice defined guns, six pack and that I really don't care if it means he will have skinny legs. I ask him why he wants more weight and bulk and he says its just something he always wanted. He is 6'2, was an athlete all of his childhood through high school, had a serious injury that ruined his college BB career before it got started, was thought to ruin his chance to be athletic for the rest of his life but he overcame it through rehab and has been in the gym ever since.
> 
> He just feels like its easier for him to gain weight/bulk now that he is older. Since I never said anything (because I feel like a person should do what they want with their own body as long as its healthy), he didnt think I cared one way or the other. He was surprise I even brought it up. But since he has always had to eat to maintain weight and I have tried to help him with this with my cooking, he just thought I would not be opposed.
> 
> It was just an interesting conversation because after 9 years of marriage and the way I am always all over his body feeling him up, rubbing, touching I would have thought he knew I love it just the way it is. Maybe because I have tease him about his skinny legs? They are really muscular and toned, just not big although they are a little bigger now since he has been gaining weight.


You can have it all . Heavy leg work mixed with cardio and body weight exercises like pushup, pullups will keep him looking lean but add size to his legs. Plus more muscle in his legs will burn more fat from everywhere on his body.


----------



## committed4ever

Thundarr said:


> You can have it all . Heavy leg work mixed with cardio and body weight exercises like pushup, pullups will keep him looking lean but add size to his legs. Plus more muscle in his legs will burn more fat from everywhere on his body.


When I say "legs" I mean from just above knee on down. He really does have a "V" shape but I guess I should say his lower kegs and calves have alway been skinny. His upper thighs have bulk but that's it.

He does push ups like you wouldn't believe. He will just drop and do 50 between commercials. And in all kinds of hand and arm positions.

I don't know much about his lifting and cardio regimen at the gym. When we used to go together we kept our distance so that he wouldn't get on my nerves.

You really think he could bulk up his lower legs and calves without bulking up anywhere else? I have seen women who work out that had baseball bat legs at first and when they started working out their legs started looking weird knarly like like tree limbs with no shape. It's like they added bits of muscle here and there but not proportionately.


----------



## Thundarr

Oh I thought you meant upper leg. He actually sounds to be in good shape.

Calves are a pain to build. I think they're a different kind of muscle than most others. My calves get bigger when I've been hiking or jogging recently but they don't change much from calf raises.


----------



## U.E. McGill

committed4ever said:


> When I say "legs" I mean from just above knee on down. He really does have a "V" shape but I guess I should say his lower kegs and calves have alway been skinny. His upper thighs have bulk but that's it.
> 
> He does push ups like you wouldn't believe. He will just drop and do 50 between commercials. And in all kinds of hand and arm positions.
> 
> I don't know much about his lifting and cardio regimen at the gym. When we used to go together we kept our distance so that he wouldn't get on my nerves.
> 
> You really think he could bulk up his lower legs and calves without bulking up anywhere else? I have seen women who work out that had baseball bat legs at first and when they started working out their legs started looking weird knarly like like tree limbs with no shape. It's like they added bits of muscle here and there but not proportionately.



Olympic lifts, should be on every serious fitness trainers list. They do so much. Core, hams, glutes, mobility. I have a snatch or clean 2x a week. My calves are in great balance with the rest of me.


----------



## bbdad

Calves work all the time you walk, jump, run..etc... You need to hit them with high volume 25-100 rep sets.


----------



## Haiku

Jacobi - I've forgotten your exact goals but I thought it was reduction of some bf and better overall fitness. I think you said being away from home and money are the challenges(?). 



Here's a suggestion but it will still require some start up costs. If you are just trying to start a fitness program then maybe look at incremental changes and build from there. Too many people make New Years resolutions and hit the club hard for 5-6 weeks then quit. 



Consider investing in a good spin bike and dipping station. An excellent bike will be in $1200 - $1500 range but good ones (even used) will be slightly less. You can build a dipping station for little to nothing or buy one (even used) for a couple hundred dollars. 



If I were limited to one single anaerobic exercise it'd be dips. You can hit chest, shoulders, back, tri's from them. (If you're looking to increase your arms then hit the tri's. They are easy to build and 2/3 of the upper arm.)



Spinning programs need to be learned. It is not merely spinning a certain revolution for a set period of time. It is varying loads (resistance), sprints, and being in and out of the saddle. Taking a class at a local Rec Center is a good way to jump start the learning curve. There are plenty of DVDs available too. 



A guy will usually burn about 900-1500 calories in a moderate intensity 50 minute routine. It's easy on the body and knees. At a high level it takes about 3500 calories to lose one pound. So generally speaking, maintaining your normal eating habits but burning about 500 calories daily below your adjusted RMR will put you on a course to lose 3-4 pounds per month. (500 calorie deficient daily under your adjusted RMR.) That's a healthy realistic rate. 



Hopefully as you gradually incorporate these two simple programs into your week fitness will become part of your lifestyle. Fitness and nutrition are lifestyle changes but it need not be sudden and drastic. Also as you progress hopefully so will your appetite to learn more about fitness and add new complex exercises (thresholds on the bike with a fitness watch) and add new equipment. 



As I said fitness and nutrition are a lifestyle change. It is not a sprint but a marathon. So don't kill yourself - start slow with the goal of sticking with your routine. Take day one photos and measurements. Watch for transformation changes on a monthly basis. 



I'm terribly late so I apologize for any typos and poorly constructed post. I just wanted to get back to you. There's so much more to add so someone hopefully will fill in the gaps. Must run. Take care.

Edit: I failed to recommend you see your GP before starting a program. This is important as the objective of a medical evaluation is to identify any known or unknown cardiovascular disease and any risks rigorous exercise may pose. 

I am not a certified trainer now but was a long time member of the National Strength and Conditioning Association. Many professional organization including the NSCA mandates prescreening as part of their professional standards and guidelines. Be leery of club trainers; vet them carefully.


----------



## committed4ever

U.E. McGill said:


> Olympic lifts, should be on every serious fitness trainers list. They do so much. Core, hams, glutes, mobility. I have a snatch or clean 2x a week. My calves are in great balance with the rest of me.


Did they start out that way? Because my H calves have always been the smallest part in proportion to the rest. If he gains weight, it is in top portion of his body and never lower legs. Conversely when he lost the weight he gained, it was not proportionate either. 

By the way, I do not KNOW that his goal is bigger legs, it is just my thought on it. We had finally repaired our pool and got one summer use out of it before we sold that house. The one we have now also has a pool too, so this is our first season of constant entertainment around the pool. I was thinking he may be a little self conscious of constantly showing his legs in swimming trunks (plus I do teast him but only in privatea). But I could be wrong, maybe he does just want more upper body bulk.


----------



## U.E. McGill

committed4ever said:


> Did they start out that way? Because my H calves have always been the smallest part in proportion to the rest. If he gains weight, it is in top portion of his body and never lower legs. Conversely when he lost the weight he gained, it was not proportionate either.
> 
> By the way, I do not KNOW that his goal is bigger legs, it is just my thought on it. We had finally repaired our pool and got one summer use out of it before we sold that house. The one we have now also has a pool too, so this is our first season of constant entertainment around the pool. I was thinking he may be a little self conscious of constantly showing his legs in swimming trunks (plus I do teast him but only in privatea). But I could be wrong, maybe he does just want more upper body bulk.



Yeah I have good calves. But when I get fat, they get huge. So I need the same result from the opposite direction. I knew some body builders, they all said calves were very genetic. So I think the best you can hope for is balance.


----------



## BostonBruins32

treyvion said:


> Have you ever considered that you just might not be her favorite. Even if you were plated in gold and the entire world knew, she might have just been content using you as a doorstop.


I havent just considered this, I have assumed this after some pondering.

One my comments in my old thread summed it up best. I could improve every aspect of who i am by 100% and she still wouldnt "feel it" with me.

Now the hard part.. what to do?

Workouts and Fitness. Regardless of how much my wife is or is not attracted to me, I remain fit and am getting fitter. A. it's just good for your health. B. It's good for self confidence, as you see nice gains/losses and things look better on you. C. If/When we decide to part ways someday, I do not want to start from ground zero in getting back in shape.

My fitness pal App. Get it people!


----------



## BostonBruins32

Thundarr said:


> P90X had me in my best shape since I was young so I'm looking forward to P90X3. I've had the disks laying on my desk for a couple of months now but just haven't switched gears yet. For the past 4 months or so I've been push mowing my lawn, hitting the tread mill, and getting little bits of weights in.
> 
> I'll do P90X3 in the garage and it's just so hot now. I'm thinking we start it in September.


Tried P90x. I feel like it was more of a temp fix vs a lifestyle change. Essentially like a crash diet rather than a change in diet lifestyle. 

Much better results, sustained, by frequent cardio, monitored calories, and light weight lifting. Biggest gains from calorie counting.


----------



## U.E. McGill

BostonBruins32 said:


> Tried P90x. I feel like it was more of a temp fix vs a lifestyle change. Essentially like a crash diet rather than a change in diet lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> Much better results, sustained, by frequent cardio, monitored calories, and light weight lifting. Biggest gains from calorie counting.



That's why it go to the gym and I make sure I have gym buddies who hold me accountable.


----------



## NextTimeAround

I want to exercise in the most efficient way possible.

For example, I have read
1) choose weights high enough that once you get the 7th/8th repetition, you do it to failure (Tor F?)

2) exercise a muscle group every other day. To do so every day, brings no results at all (T or F)

What if I do squats with hand weights on my lower body day, the day after my upper body day?

Regarding cardio, treadmilling in particular, what can I do to bump up the results in the same amount of time? I do 20 to 30 minutes on the treadmill?

Would varying cardio machines make a difference?

Would varying strength exercises for either the lower or upper group make a difference?

any other tips for efficiency?

My goal is 

1. to lose 20 to 30 pounds; 
2. create muscle definition; 
3. increase running speed (I'd like to get better at tennis)
4. increase arm strength (to hit the balls faster)

Thanks guys and gals for your help.


----------



## U.E. McGill

NextTimeAround said:


> I want to exercise in the most efficient way possible.
> 
> 
> 
> For example, I have read
> 
> 1) choose weights high enough that once you get the 7th/8th repetition, you do it to failure (Tor F?)
> 
> 
> 
> 2) exercise a muscle group every other day. To do so every day, brings no results at all (T or F)
> 
> 
> 
> What if I do squats with hand weights on my lower body day, the day after my upper body day?
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding cardio, treadmilling in particular, what can I do to bump up the results in the same amount of time? I do 20 to 30 minutes on the treadmill?
> 
> 
> 
> Would varying cardio machines make a difference?
> 
> 
> 
> Would varying strength exercises for either the lower or upper group make a difference?
> 
> 
> 
> any other tips for efficiency?
> 
> 
> 
> My goal is
> 
> 
> 
> 1. to lose 20 to 30 pounds;
> 
> 2. create muscle definition;
> 
> 3. increase running speed (I'd like to get better at tennis)
> 
> 4. increase arm strength (to hit the balls faster)
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys and gals for your help.



Google Wendler 5-3-1. Great program for strength training. Deals with exactly what your asking, using lots of variation. 

Weight loss and definition is diet. Less calories in, than you use you loose weight. Now you need to keep the protein up so you don't loose muscle though. Google clean eating and working out. I eat paleo. 

If you want to increase speed get off the treadmill. Speed is built through things like strides, hill runs, fartleks. You can't do those on a treadmill. Think start-stop at high intensity. 

Things like a swing for tennis, golf, baseball starts with CORE strength. Arms are the last piece of the puzzle.


----------



## Jakobi Greenleaf

*Re: Re: Workouts and Fitness*



Haiku said:


> Jacobi - I've forgotten your exact goals but I thought it was reduction of some bf and better overall fitness. I think you said being away from home and money are the challenges(?).
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a suggestion but it will still require some start up costs. If you are just trying to start a fitness program then maybe look at incremental changes and build from there. Too many people make New Years resolutions and hit the club hard for 5-6 weeks then quit.
> 
> 
> 
> Consider investing in a good spin bike and dipping station. An excellent bike will be in $1200 - $1500 range but good ones (even used) will be slightly less. You can build a dipping station for little to nothing or buy one (even used) for a couple hundred dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> If I were limited to one single anaerobic exercise it'd be dips. You can hit chest, shoulders, back, tri's from them. (If you're looking to increase your arms then hit the tri's. They are easy to build and 2/3 of the upper arm.)
> 
> 
> 
> Spinning programs need to be learned. It is not merely spinning a certain revolution for a set period of time. It is varying loads (resistance), sprints, and being in and out of the saddle. Taking a class at a local Rec Center is a good way to jump start the learning curve. There are plenty of DVDs available too.
> 
> 
> 
> A guy will usually burn about 900-1500 calories in a moderate intensity 50 minute routine. It's easy on the body and knees. At a high level it takes about 3500 calories to lose one pound. So generally speaking, maintaining your normal eating habits but burning about 500 calories daily below your adjusted RMR will put you on a course to lose 3-4 pounds per month. (500 calorie deficient daily under your adjusted RMR.) That's a healthy realistic rate.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully as you gradually incorporate these two simple programs into your week fitness will become part of your lifestyle. Fitness and nutrition are lifestyle changes but it need not be sudden and drastic. Also as you progress hopefully so will your appetite to learn more about fitness and add new complex exercises (thresholds on the bike with a fitness watch) and add new equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said fitness and nutrition are a lifestyle change. It is not a sprint but a marathon. So don't kill yourself - start slow with the goal of sticking with your routine. Take day one photos and measurements. Watch for transformation changes on a monthly basis.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm terribly late so I apologize for any typos and poorly constructed post. I just wanted to get back to you. There's so much more to add so someone hopefully will fill in the gaps. Must run. Take care.
> 
> Edit: I failed to recommend you see your GP before starting a program. This is important as the objective of a medical evaluation is to identify any known or unknown cardiovascular disease and any risks rigorous exercise may pose.
> 
> I am not a certified trainer now but was a long time member of the National Strength and Conditioning Association. Many professional organization including the NSCA mandates prescreening as part of their professional standards and guidelines. Be leery of club trainers; vet them carefully.


I might be able to swing that kind of money at tax time, but not now. I have been very busy with trying to get into a school to get a degree. I have not started anything yet on the exercise front. The best plan is one you will stick to, so for now it's better food choices, and attempting to recreate BCT. Lots on my plate right now, just trying to get through each day.


----------



## Thundarr

Jakobi Greenleaf said:


> I might be able to swing that kind of money at tax time, but not now. I have been very busy with trying to get into a school to get a degree. I have not started anything yet on the exercise front. The best plan is one you will stick to, so for now it's better food choices, and attempting to recreate BCT. Lots on my plate right now, just trying to get through each day.


As you mentioned, your diet is important. But also just simple activity when you can get it. For example, I used to mow my lawn on a riding mower but now I push mow it. Getting your heart rate up regularly helps in more ways then you realize. For one, good food taste better when your body needs it. Water taste better when you're re hydrating. And if you've ever noticed, a little exercise reduces your appetite.

Health is a spiral and it can spiral up or down. The more you do the more you can do. The less you do the less you can do.


----------



## Caribbean Man

NextTimeAround said:


> I want to exercise in the most efficient way possible.
> 
> For example, I have read
> 1) choose weights high enough that once you get the 7th/8th repetition, you do it to failure (Tor F?)
> 
> 2) exercise a muscle group every other day. To do so every day, brings no results at all (T or F)
> 
> What if I do squats with hand weights on my lower body day, the day after my upper body day?
> 
> Regarding cardio, treadmilling in particular, what can I do to bump up the results in the same amount of time? I do 20 to 30 minutes on the treadmill?
> 
> Would varying cardio machines make a difference?
> 
> Would varying strength exercises for either the lower or upper group make a difference?
> 
> any other tips for efficiency?
> 
> My goal is
> 
> 1. to lose 20 to 30 pounds;
> 2. create muscle definition;
> 3. increase running speed (I'd like to get better at tennis)
> 4. increase arm strength (to hit the balls faster)
> 
> Thanks guys and gals for your help.


I'm not challenging what the other poster said , because it is good advice.
I'm just offering you another option of a more detailed and much easier workout template for beginners .

My wife and I used Stronglifts 5 x 5 template in the beginning and it was extremely simple and helpful.

I still incorporate it in some of my workouts.

Here's a link to the website , which gives you free apps for your android , free spreadsheets to monitor your progress , a forum where all your questions can be answered by professionals , and videos demonstrating all the workouts and how to do them properly.

StrongLifts 5x5: A Simple Workout To Get Stronger

This site isn't about getting big and bulky , but rather cutting fat ,building great muscle tone and most of all , building functional strength.

And like the other poster said , proper diet is the key. Get a clean source of protein and carbs , and your results ate guaranteed !


----------



## COguy

So I've been doing BJJ for about a year, I'm pretty out of shape and because of the kids don't get to go to often. I've not been taking it that seriously.

An MMA gym opened up right by my house and I've always wanted to do legitimate fighter training, so I signed up for a sparring class to see if it was something I would want to do. Completely hooked. I started taking my training a lot more seriously. More training on my weeks with no kids, and getting some help so I can train at night at least 2-3 times a week when I do have the kids.

Thinking I'm going to give it 2-3 months to get a base level of fitness and then think about possibly taking a fight in a year. I've always wanted to do that and I only have a few years left where that will be a possibility. No regrets.... Would also be a great motivator to get into shape, I'd have to cut quite a bit of weight to make my desired weight class.

Anyway I was remarking about how I hate going to the gym and just lifting. Crossfit was fun but at the end of the day it's still just working out. I never get tired or bored of doing BJJ or MMA.


----------



## U.E. McGill

A tip for all you guys who say "I have a hard time because of kids an all"

I know its counter intuitive but you should schedule your day as follows: work, gym, kids. Not work, kids, gym. 

I have a 7 year old in sports, 2-3 year olds but I fit them around my schedule. If you don't they will find a way to make sure you don't go. "Play date at Nicks? Sure I guess I can go later". "Wife needs a quick run to the store for milk, sure,". And on and on. 

Now they still get what they need but on my terms.


----------



## Nigel Pinchley

I apologize if this has already been posted, but this thread is far too long for me to read all the way through 

In my personal experience, the real key to success in physical fitness is sustainability. Crash or fad diets and hip new kinds of working out are effective but only so long as you can force yourself to continue doing them. As such, I prefer smaller changes that produce more significantly sustainable results over time. Everything I do, from how I eat to how I work out, are built with a focus toward sustainability.

I personally prefer lifting, but others like running or aerobics or circuit courses or what have you. As long as you can continue doing whatever you're doing, then I think you're spot on.

Also, there is a saying among lifters: "Gains or losses start in the kitchen." You can lift all you want, but if your diet is off key, you'll never gain any muscle. You can run (or whatever form of cardio) all you want, but if you're consuming too many calories, you'll never lose weight.

Following is the basic workout that I did which was provided by a member of another forum I used to visit. I did it three times weekly, for over six months, and was the workout with which I saw the most initial gains. It is a single workout built around the basic compound lifts.

Squat
Bench Press
Bent over row (or single arm rows if you prefer)
Military Press
Romanian Deadlift
Bicep curl (not a compound lift but included because most people will do it anyway )
Calf raise (also not a compound lift but still included to get some extra calf work)

The rep and weight progression are such that every workout you're either adding weight or adding reps. This is advantageous as it means you're always gaining, and it gives targets for you to hit relative to your max weights for each exercise.


----------



## changedbeliefs

U.E. McGill said:


> A tip for all you guys who say "I have a hard time because of kids an all"
> 
> I know its counter intuitive but you should schedule your day as follows: work, gym, kids. Not work, kids, gym.
> 
> I have a 7 year old in sports, 2-3 year olds but I fit them around my schedule. If you don't they will find a way to make sure you don't go. "Play date at Nicks? Sure I guess I can go later". "Wife needs a quick run to the store for milk, sure,". And on and on.
> 
> Now they still get what they need but on my terms.


While my kids are older (10, 13) and becoming more self-sufficient, so I can occasionally work out in the late afternoon/evening, I have found that hitting up my box at 5:30am not only gives me the most consistency in my workouts, but leaves the rest of the household uninterrupted by my gym time. I just need to work on getting to sleep earlier, though.......


----------



## U.E. McGill

changedbeliefs said:


> While my kids are older (10, 13) and becoming more self-sufficient, so I can occasionally work out in the late afternoon/evening, I have found that hitting up my box at 5:30am not only gives me the most consistency in my workouts, but leaves the rest of the household uninterrupted by my gym time. I just need to work on getting to sleep earlier, though.......



My compliments to you my friend. 530 exercise and me do not get along. I'm a night owl. Strangely I can be up a 4 am to be on the water, no problem.


----------



## Fozzy

Caribbean Man said:


> I'm not challenging what the other poster said , because it is good advice.
> I'm just offering you another option of a more detailed and much easier workout template for beginners .
> 
> My wife and I used Stronglifts 5 x 5 template in the beginning and it was extremely simple and helpful.
> 
> I still incorporate it in some of my workouts.
> 
> Here's a link to the website , which gives you free apps for your android , free spreadsheets to monitor your progress , a forum where all your questions can be answered by professionals , and videos demonstrating all the workouts and how to do them properly.
> 
> StrongLifts 5x5: A Simple Workout To Get Stronger
> 
> This site isn't about getting big and bulky , but rather cutting fat ,building great muscle tone and most of all , building functional strength.
> 
> And like the other poster said , proper diet is the key. Get a clean source of protein and carbs , and your results ate guaranteed !


I like the idea behind Stronglifts, and was actually just starting to implement when I jacked my shoulder. The pain is almost gone now and I've started some light lifting again so I'm looking forward to trying this out.


----------



## old red

for those who are time poor - the russian kettlebell.


----------



## Fozzy

Old thread, I know--but I had to crow about the doorframe pull up bar I just got from Goodwill--$7 !

I used to be able to crank out pullups no problem--sadly this is no longer the case, but i'm making this my "project" now (until my rotator cuff says differently).

Score now stands at: Pull ups - 0. Chin ups - 1.


----------



## Deejo

The pull up is a cornerstone and benchmark of being able to call oneself 'fit'.


----------



## Fozzy

Deejo said:


> The pull up is a cornerstone and benchmark of being able to call oneself 'fit'.


update: pullups 0, chin ups 4. I was really feeling it tonight


----------



## DanteDMC

All I want to say is that we have to take care of our body and then we will have inner harmony. When you follow the fact that you eat, do sports, then you treat with self-love. 
So, train hard! 
This is how a girl should look like


----------



## DanteDMC

All I want to say is that we have to take care of our body and then we will have inner harmony. When you follow the fact that you eat, do sports, then you treat with self-love. 
So, train hard! 
This is how a girl should look like


----------



## Caribbean Man

Fozzy said:


> update: pullups 0, *chin ups 4*. I was really feeling it tonight



Ok.
Looking good so far. Anyone who is able to move their own body weight through free space has already mastered the basics.

But how do you differentiate between the chin up and the pull up?

I hear people say it , but I feel it just a different variation of the same exercise.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Fozzy, look into 'scaling' the exercise. Things like banded pull-ups, negative pull ups, and ring rows can help you get there if you can't do the first one. There's no shame in scaling. 6 months ago I couldn't do 1. I just did a WOD that included 50+. I started with scaling.


----------



## Fozzy

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok.
> Looking good so far. Anyone who is able to move their own body weight through free space has already mastered the basics.
> 
> But how do you differentiate between the chin up and the pull up?
> 
> I hear people say it , but I feel it just a different variation of the same exercise.


It's always been my understanding that pullups are an overhand grip with hands at about shoulder width, vs chinups with an underhand grip with hands slightly closer. For some reason this makes chinups usually a little easier. I also notice that the pullups wreck my shoulder a LOT more than the chinups.

Back in my early 20's I used to be able to crank out either one with ease. Nice to know I'm not starting from scratch at least.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Fozzy said:


> I like the idea behind Stronglifts, and was actually just starting to implement when I jacked my shoulder. The pain is almost gone now and I've started some light lifting again so I'm looking forward to trying this out.


Fozzy, I just saw this.

Based on what you said here, it seems to me that you damaged the rotator cuff on one of your shoulder.

If that is so, then you need to go easy.

A good idea is to warm up properly before doing any exercise by doing rotator cuff exercises like external rotations and scapula rotations etc.

Working out with an elastic band helps too.


----------



## heartsbeating

Fozzy said:


> update: pullups 0, chin ups 4. I was really feeling it tonight


Well done!

It's my goal to be able to do 1 one day. Hopefully more but when I achieve at least 1, I'll be doing the celebratory 'I just did a chin up' dance. 

I will share that I'm now able to hold my own body weight on the rings but not quite at chin up stage ....YET! but I shall conquer.


----------



## bbdad

If you want to be able to do pull ups, the way to improve is to do them. 

I used to have one of those over the door pull up bars. The brand was Iron Gym or something like that.

I put it over one of the doors that I frequently went through. Every time I went in or out of that room, I did as many pull ups as I could. Some days, I would be doing pull ups 20 or more times.

It started out that I could only do about 2-3 at first. By the time I finally took it down, I was able to get 27 strict form pull ups. It just came from doing them multiple times throughout the day.


----------



## Machiavelli

U.E. McGill said:


> Fozzy, look into 'scaling' the exercise. Things like banded pull-ups, *negative pull ups*, and ring rows can help you get there if you can't do the first one. There's no shame in scaling. 6 months ago I couldn't do 1. I just did a WOD that included 50+. I started with scaling.


Arthur Jones was a huge advocate of negative training and especially of the use of negative chin ups as a bridge to being able to do positive chins.


----------



## Fozzy

bbdad said:


> If you want to be able to do pull ups, the way to improve is to do them.
> 
> I used to have one of those over the door pull up bars. The brand was Iron Gym or something like that.
> 
> I put it over one of the doors that I frequently went through. Every time I went in or out of that room, I did as many pull ups as I could. Some days, I would be doing pull ups 20 or more times.
> 
> It started out that I could only do about 2-3 at first. By the time I finally took it down, I was able to get 27 strict form pull ups. It just came from doing them multiple times throughout the day.


This is EXACTLY what i'm doing. It's hanging in the door to my bedroom, so i'm in and out of it constantly, and I "pay the toll" every time i go through. It's also positioned basically right next to my living room so when i'm sitting on the couch i'm basically staring right at it, guilting myself.


----------



## staarz21

Fozzy said:


> This is EXACTLY what i'm doing. It's hanging in the door to my bedroom, so i'm in and out of it constantly, and I "pay the toll" every time i go through. It's also positioned basically right next to my living room so when i'm sitting on the couch i'm basically staring right at it, guilting myself.


That's awesome! That is what I do now also. I have one above my laundry room door. It sits between my kitchen, garage, and downstairs restroom so I am in and out of that hallway several times a day. I can do 4 pullups. It's not a lot when my H is telling me is he doing 30-50 a day ha! But It's 4 more than I could do before!


----------



## Machiavelli

staarz21 said:


> That's awesome! That is what I do now also. I have one above my laundry room door. It sits between my kitchen, garage, and downstairs restroom so I am in and out of that hallway several times a day. I can do 4 pullups. It's not a lot when my H is telling me is he doing 30-50 a day ha! But It's 4 more than I could do before!


That's about 3 more than today's USMC BAMs can do. The MC was going to require women to do 3 straight pull-ups this year for retention, but none of them could do it. I predict in five or six years they will be issuing BAMs anabolics as SOP.


----------



## Fozzy

Surprising. I would think the marines would have higher standards.


----------



## Ikaika

I figure I could do some pull-ups.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I used to bang high reps bodyweight pull ups.

Then I changed my rep range down to 8 reps per set when I started adding weights.
I progressed up to two 45 plates on the belt and things started getting sticky.

I started feeling this weird , progressive, sharp pain on the inside of my left forearm going down to my elbow. It was so bad that I couldn't even do normal bodyweight pullups. So I had to stop.

Did some therapy and realized that the pain was related to my body posture. Therapist said my shoulders and back were slanted forward, because of my height. There's a name for it, but I can't recall.

But now it has been corrected , [ more upper back exercises, deadlifts, hang cleans etc.] and I'm back on pull up bar again.


----------



## Fozzy

I was discussing this with a friend about adding weight after I get to that point. I thought it would be fun to strap my 3 year old to my back, Yoda-style.


----------



## Machiavelli

Fozzy said:


> Surprising. I would think the marines would have higher standards.


Are you kidding? It's the 21st century.

Back in the 60's, they used to have a recruiting ad that showed guys going through boot camp and the slogan was "The Marine Corps Builds Men." For a while, they ran some that said "Never Send a Boy to do a Man's Job: The Marine Corps Builds Men." That one seems to have gone completely down the memory hole. Now, it would be "Never Send a Girl to do a Man's Job: The Marine Corps Builds Men." Especially when you check out the "man" on the right.


----------



## Machiavelli

Caribbean Man said:


> But now it has been corrected , [ more upper back exercises, deadlifts, hang cleans etc.] and I'm back on pull up bar again.


High cable rows. Also, I make it a point to roll my shoulders back and lock them throughout the workout and the course of the day.


----------



## treyvion

Machiavelli said:


> Are you kidding? It's the 21st century.
> 
> Back in the 60's, they used to have a recruiting ad that showed guys going through boot camp and the slogan was "The Marine Corps Builds Men." For a while, they ran some that said "Never Send a Boy to do a Man's Job: The Marine Corps Builds Men." That one seems to have gone completely down the memory hole. Now, it would be "Never Send a Girl to do a Man's Job: The Marine Corps Builds Men." Especially when you check out the "man" on the right.


It's a man with some female weaknesses.

You know. I didn't know so much of life is choices, even if they take a while to add up.

So my ex has this bull **** aunt, who is as agressive and physically "manly" as a successful warehouse worker, in the example one who might have to punk others down or fight them with a box cutter.

It's all the characteristics of a physically dominant man who uses it, and will push people out of the way who are being "nice".

Anyway so I see this picture of this effiminant lady with a feminine glow and energy and I was like "who was that".

It turned out it was the aunt. The aunt before she started her path to maximum bull dykeness was a pretty sexy lady. What happened supposedly is a family member was a bully and raped and bullied her, and it built her into what she is today.

She also has some chest hairs and semblance of mustache and a low bassy voice.

When she was a female she had a feminine voice and no chest hairs.

All of this was done without hormones. Her simply taking the path and living in the "space" of a physically dominant man who happens to be a bull ****.

So it's a great example of YES your actions can adjust your hormone levels. 

Yes your actions can adjust your visible attitude to others.

Yes, most of what is in life IS a path.

I just wanted to point this out to the men who are being "punked" by their spouses, that it's not a free ride.

And they can punk you by saying your going to be sexless while they recieve full benefits and your love.


----------



## Machiavelli

treyvion said:


> She also has some chest hairs and semblance of mustache and a low bassy voice.
> 
> When she was a female she had a feminine voice and no chest hairs.
> 
> All of this was done without hormones. Her simply taking the path and living in the "space" of a physically dominant man who happens to be a bull ****.
> 
> So it's a great example of YES your actions can adjust your hormone levels.
> 
> Yes your actions can adjust your visible attitude to others.
> 
> Yes, most of what is in life IS a path.
> 
> I just wanted to point this out to the men who are being "punked" by their spouses, that it's not a free ride.
> 
> And they can punk you by saying your going to be sexless while they recieve full benefits and your love.



Brilliant observations, Treyvion. Even something like adopting a "power stance" can increase testosterone. Same for winning a game. Now, imagine a woman successfully facing down a weak male by using a power pose and the effect that has on her (even if the guy wasn't weak, but just didn't want to hit a girl).


----------



## treyvion

Machiavelli said:


> Brilliant observations, Treyvion. Even something like adopting a "power stance" can increase testosterone. Same for winning a game. Now, imagine a woman successfully facing down a weak male by using a power pose and the effect that has on her (even if the guy wasn't weak, but just didn't want to hit a girl).


Right. You don't want to hit a girl even vocally, and over time if you keep taking it it will punk you down, your testosterone will reduce if she is one of the key people in your life. Her testosterone and agressiveness will raise.

When you get down one of the best things you can do to help your mood, is to keep your head up, also smiling helps too. What you think about you is very important. And others can adjust what you think about you by how they treat you if you allow it.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

BAM! lol, I had never heard that before I read this thread. Back when I was in the Navy we (and all my MC friends) called them WAMs (wide ass marines).


----------



## U.E. McGill

Also if the pull up bar doesn't require being hooked over the door frame. Lower it to where you can lay down and so an "incline" pull up. The "flatter" you can get, the closer you are to a Rx pull up.


----------



## treyvion

Machiavelli said:


> Are you kidding? It's the 21st century.
> 
> Back in the 60's, they used to have a recruiting ad that showed guys going through boot camp and the slogan was "The Marine Corps Builds Men." For a while, they ran some that said "Never Send a Boy to do a Man's Job: The Marine Corps Builds Men." That one seems to have gone completely down the memory hole. Now, it would be "Never Send a Girl to do a Man's Job: The Marine Corps Builds Men." Especially when you check out the "man" on the right.


Machiavelli,

Actually you got it right. This is a posterchild for "The Marine Corps Builds Men".

Regards.


----------



## Fozzy

U.E. McGill said:


> Also if the pull up bar doesn't require being hooked over the door frame. Lower it to where you can lay down and so an "incline" pull up. The "flatter" you can get, the closer you are to a Rx pull up.


Nope, it's a door-hanging one. can't be lowered. I did start with some negative pullups last night however.

I'm actually a little surprised at how quickly it's coming back to me. The chin ups are rapidly getting easier (but not easy), and i know my form is better already. Not kipping or anything, just straight up, and down slow.


----------



## Ikaika

Fozzy said:


> Nope, it's a door-hanging one. can't be lowered. I did start with some negative pullups last night however.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually a little surprised at how quickly it's coming back to me. The chin ups are rapidly getting easier (but not easy), and i know my form is better already. Not kipping or anything, just straight up, and down slow.



I know I will get persecuted for this comment, but it is just my opinion. Those kipping style of "pull-ups" are not pull-ups. I personally can't see how even 50 of those count for even one regular pull-up. Granted, you don't have to have your legs absolutely straight, but swinging them back and forth to raise up on a pull-up bar in my opinion is just not it. Sure you will gain some cardio, but the muscle groups you are isolating will be minimal. 

I work out with my son and get on him all the time for form. I would prefer less reps with proper form over just trying to "kill it".


----------



## awake1

For me personally i started with a strong lifts style workout, then moved on to greyskull LP. 

Both of those are the standard A/B shoulderpress/benchpress alternating, row/pull up alternating, squat/deadlift alternating. Did that for about a year.

I've since moved onto a more body building style routine that is a push pull split. In May or so i added walking 3 days a week, then started a couch to 5k program. Now i just run 3 days a week. 

Progression has slowed quite a bit since reaching 140lb shoulder press and 200lb bp. I'm still "cutting" so that factors in. 



My honest advice is to start with a 5x5 program to learn the core lifts for at least 6 months or until progression stops. Then move on to something else that adds more accessory exercises. 

I'd also skip the machines, they're easier but you don't learn to move heavy weights in space like a barbell. 

Also: working to failure all the time isn't that great on you. It can burn you out, overwork ligaments and tendons and lead to possible injury. While lifting in general can do this, failure should be a once in awhile thing. 

I've learned everything goes a lot smoother if i just schedule a reset every few weeks. 

Doing the above limits back sliding, where the weight goes up up up, then plateaus, and you find yourself doing less reps with the same weight and getting weaker.


----------



## sinnister

Even when I was playing football as an RB/WR and bench pressing my own body weight as part of a workout I could NEVER do a pull up. LOL

I dont know why.

Now that I'm a fatty I need to get back in to it. This place needs a pic section so someone can post a PDF I can print out. Beginner workouts.


----------



## treyvion

sinnister said:


> Even when I was playing football as an RB/WR and bench pressing my own body weight as part of a workout I could NEVER do a pull up. LOL
> 
> I dont know why.
> 
> Now that I'm a fatty I need to get back in to it. This place needs a pic section so someone can post a PDF I can print out. Beginner workouts.


Lose some weight. Start with negatives. Build your grip strength up. Eventually you will be able to do them.


----------



## U.E. McGill

drerio said:


> I know I will get persecuted for this comment, but it is just my opinion. Those kipping style of "pull-ups" are not pull-ups. I personally can't see how even 50 of those count for even one regular pull-up. Granted, you don't have to have your legs absolutely straight, but swinging them back and forth to raise up on a pull-up bar in my opinion is just not it. Sure you will gain some cardio, but the muscle groups you are isolating will be minimal.
> 
> I work out with my son and get on him all the time for form. I would prefer less reps with proper form over just trying to "kill it".



I won't persecute. I will clarify. The Kipping movement is intended for efficiency in time. In the case of a "chipper" where we are doing a set number for time a kip becomes desirable. 

Don't think of it as a substitute. I often have programmed workouts that require strict pull ups. I agree the two are not equal and should never be portrayed as such. 

On another topic, a great strength program is Wendler 5/3/1. Quick, efficient, and effective.


----------



## GettingIt_2

U.E. McGill said:


> Also if the pull up bar doesn't require being hooked over the door frame. Lower it to where you can lay down and so an "incline" pull up. The "flatter" you can get, the closer you are to a Rx pull up.


You can do these (body weight rows) with a kitchen table if you don't have an adjustable bar. Good way to isolate your lats for pull up training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYUxXMGVuuU

One of the few uses I've found for a smith machine are body weight rows and pull ups . . .


----------



## Machiavelli

sinnister said:


> Even when I was playing football as an RB/WR and bench pressing my own body weight as part of a workout I could NEVER do a pull up. LOL
> 
> I dont know why.


Genetics, primarily, assuming no obesity. Some people just don't have the lats for it.


----------



## Machiavelli

drerio said:


> I know I will get persecuted for this comment, but it is just my opinion. Those kipping style of "pull-ups" are not pull-ups. I personally can't see how even 50 of those count for even one regular pull-up.


Correct. It's a lot of "outroading" and it's a failure to concentrate on the targeted muscle groups. I don't drink the Cultfit Kool Aid.


----------



## Fozzy

sinnister said:


> Even when I was playing football as an RB/WR and bench pressing my own body weight as part of a workout I could NEVER do a pull up. LOL
> 
> I dont know why.
> 
> Now that I'm a fatty I need to get back in to it. This place needs a pic section so someone can post a PDF I can print out. Beginner workouts.


See, this kills me. My buddy can out lift me any day of the week with ease, but he just flat out can't get close to a pull up or chin up. I'm relatively weak in the weight room, but after 4 days, i've gone from 1/2 a "nose-up" to 3 sets of 2 consecutive chin-ups. And the rub is that i'm still a fatty too. Not to the extent I was, but I'm still a good 30 pounds from where I might not vomit on the mirror anymore. I KNOW that if I wasn't lugging that extra 30, I could be launching myself on that bar.


----------



## treyvion

Machiavelli said:


> Genetics, primarily, assuming no obesity. Some people just don't have the lats for it.


Unless they have some weird torso to limb thing going on, I think they just aren't trained for it. Some people just get it right away, others have to work for it.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Machiavelli said:


> Correct. It's a lot of "outroading" and it's a failure to concentrate on the targeted muscle groups. I don't drink the Cultfit Kool Aid.



Cool aid isn't paleo so I don't get your comment.


----------



## changedbeliefs

Listen, please, for those of you that don't like/understand/condone kipping......you need to understand that it is about a fundamentally different GOAL than yours. Crossfitters are not concerned with "isolating" a body part; in fact, that is precisely what we are NOT interested in. "Functional fitness" is about composite body movements: how often will you be in a situation in life where you're forced to use a singular body part??

Kipping is about utilizing the core to assist a movement, any movement, that it can. Aren't we all aware of the current knowledge base on the benefits of a strong core, on posture and spine health, on mobility, etc...? The exact same modality used for kipping is that which engages and becomes the primary generator for the explosive olympic lifts (snatch, clean), and the stabilizer for lifts like deadlifts and overhead press.

Note, though, that Crossfit DOES train strict version of pullups, handstand pushups, etc..., to isolate muscle groups, and even does so in some metcons. However, in terms of physics, when it comes to doing maximum work in the shortest amount of time ( = intensity, = best health benefits), the entire body is used.

Say a metcon has 50 pullups. Work = force * distance. The force is my bodyweight, and the distance is constant (from wherever you hang, up to the bar), so no matter how it's done, every method will do the same amount of work. POWER, however, is work divided by time, so whichever way is fastest, is the most powerful = intensity. If I do them strict, sure, my biceps and lats would be mad-pumped by the end, all that power was done by two muscles, basically. However, I'd probably have to break those into, just for argument's sake, five sets, and it'd take quite a while. Say I kip them, but I go nice and slow, and take the same amount of time as if I did them strict: again, same work, same time, same power, but now spread over multiple groups, and I probably don't really feel it in any one place. However, if I kip them and go balls out, I am rapidly increasing the power necessary, which equals intensity, which equals results.

The real irony is, it's not like Crossfitters have these weirdly-shaped, out-of-proportion physiques. If anything, Crossfit seems to produce very idyllic bodies, I find it so weird people love to critcize their methods. Pick any male at the CF Games and try to play the game of...."yeah, but his.......uh.....well he doesn't have....uh...."

And, lastly, for the record, if you see a Crossfitter who can knock out 50 kipping pull-ups, odds are he can kick the crap out of you on strict pull-ups, too.


----------



## Ikaika

changedbeliefs said:


> Listen, please, for those of you that don't like/understand/condone kipping......you need to understand that it is about a fundamentally different GOAL than yours. Crossfitters are not concerned with "isolating" a body part; in fact, that is precisely what we are NOT interested in. "Functional fitness" is about composite body movements: how often will you be in a situation in life where you're forced to use a singular body part??
> 
> 
> 
> Kipping is about utilizing the core to assist a movement, any movement, that it can. Aren't we all aware of the current knowledge base on the benefits of a strong core, on posture and spine health, on mobility, etc...? The exact same modality used for kipping is that which engages and becomes the primary generator for the explosive olympic lifts (snatch, clean), and the stabilizer for lifts like deadlifts and overhead press.
> 
> 
> 
> Note, though, that Crossfit DOES train strict version of pullups, handstand pushups, etc..., to isolate muscle groups, and even does so in some metcons. However, in terms of physics, when it comes to doing maximum work in the shortest amount of time ( = intensity, = best health benefits), the entire body is used.
> 
> 
> 
> Say a metcon has 50 pullups. Work = force * distance. The force is my bodyweight, and the distance is constant (from wherever you hang, up to the bar), so no matter how it's done, every method will do the same amount of work. POWER, however, is work divided by time, so whichever way is fastest, is the most powerful = intensity. If I do them strict, sure, my biceps and lats would be mad-pumped by the end, all that power was done by two muscles, basically. However, I'd probably have to break those into, just for argument's sake, five sets, and it'd take quite a while. Say I kip them, but I go nice and slow, and take the same amount of time as if I did them strict: again, same work, same time, same power, but now spread over multiple groups, and I probably don't really feel it in any one place. However, if I kip them and go balls out, I am rapidly increasing the power necessary, which equals intensity, which equals results.
> 
> 
> 
> The real irony is, it's not like Crossfitters have these weirdly-shaped, out-of-proportion physiques. If anything, Crossfit seems to produce very idyllic bodies, I find it so weird people love to critcize their methods. Pick any male at the CF Games and try to play the game of...."yeah, but his.......uh.....well he doesn't have....uh...."



I am ok with it... I also say each to his/her own when it comes to workouts. I apologize for creating any angst about the issue. I guess as long as one is working out and moving over a sedentary lifestyle, that is a good thing. Of course, I'm not likely to adopt the crossfit routines into my workout.


----------



## changedbeliefs

drerio said:


> Of course, I'm not likely to adopt the crossfit routines into my workout.


I'm curious, why do you say this last part with such sanctimony? Maybe that's the wrong word.... It's just that, you say "of course," as in, well, it's just obvious that one wouldn't add in Crossfit.... It's not obvious to me. A "Crossfit-style" workout is one in which a variety of movements (usually composite) and muscle groups are called upon, to perform a certain amount of work as fast as possible, or to perform as much work as possible in a prescribed amount of time.

I have personally done, and certainly personally seen, loads and loads of the "other" kind: you know, today is arms day. Five sets of curls (do a set, rest, walk around, flex...do a set...), then five sets of pushdowns (do a set, walk around....), etc... You spend an hour, and if you're lucky, a couple muscles are a little veiny. I go to Crossfit, and in an hour-long class, I will:

* do a warm up 400m run or 500m rower
* do static and dynamic stretches, mobility work
* do one focused strength workot, usually 10-15 minutes (e.g., 5x5 squats @ 80% of max, or; do one clean and jerk every minute, building to a heavy max, or; work up to a heavy one-rep bench press, then back down to 3x3 @ 90%, etc...)
* do a metcon (cardio) workout: ours generally take 10-20 minutes. Some examples I've recently done:

* AMRAP 12 (as many rounds as possible in 12 minutes): 20 yard walking lunge, 10 burpees, 30 double unders

* 5 rounds for time: 3 strict C2B (chest to bar) pullups, 5 C2B pullups, 7 chin-over bar pullups, 12 HR (hand-release) deficit pushups (hands up on 45# plates), 15 box jumps. *note: that workout included fifteen strict chest-to-bar pullups*

* 3 rounds for time: 50 double-unders, 2 rope climbs (20'), 10 push-jerks (I did 135#); rest 3 minutes, then do a 1000m row.

* 5 rounds for time: 8 dumbbell burpee box-overs, 5 muscle-ups. Immediately after, 1000m row.

I end every CF class dripping with sweat, my lungs pounding, and most of my muscles screaming. In one hour. And I love it. I don't get how someone wouldn't want to incorporate that kind of intensity and overall test of abilities into their routine.


----------



## Ikaika

changedbeliefs said:


> I'm curious, why do you say this last part with such sanctimony? Maybe that's the wrong word.... It's just that, you say "of course," as in, well, it's just obvious that one wouldn't add in Crossfit.... It's not obvious to me. A "Crossfit-style" workout is one in which a variety of movements (usually composite) and muscle groups are called upon, to perform a certain amount of work as fast as possible, or to perform as much work as possible in a prescribed amount of time.
> 
> 
> 
> I have personally done, and certainly personally seen, loads and loads of the "other" kind: you know, today is arms day. Five sets of curls (do a set, rest, walk around, flex...do a set...), then five sets of pushdowns (do a set, walk around....), etc... You spend an hour, and if you're lucky, a couple muscles are a little veiny. I go to Crossfit, and in an hour-long class, I will:
> 
> 
> 
> * do a warm up 400m run or 500m rower
> 
> * do static and dynamic stretches, mobility work
> 
> * do one focused strength workot, usually 10-15 minutes (e.g., 5x5 squats @ 80% of max, or; do one clean and jerk every minute, building to a heavy max, or; work up to a heavy one-rep bench press, then back down to 3x3 @ 90%, etc...)
> 
> * do a metcon (cardio) workout: ours generally take 10-20 minutes. Some examples I've recently done:
> 
> 
> 
> * AMRAP 12 (as many rounds as possible in 12 minutes): 20 yard walking lunge, 10 burpees, 30 double unders
> 
> 
> 
> * 5 rounds for time: 3 strict C2B (chest to bar) pullups, 5 C2B pullups, 7 chin-over bar pullups, 12 HR (hand-release) deficit pushups (hands up on 45# plates), 15 box jumps. *note: that workout included fifteen strict chest-to-bar pullups*
> 
> 
> 
> * 3 rounds for time: 50 double-unders, 2 rope climbs (20'), 10 push-jerks (I did 135#); rest 3 minutes, then do a 1000m row.
> 
> 
> 
> * 5 rounds for time: 8 dumbbell burpee box-overs, 5 muscle-ups. Immediately after, 1000m row.
> 
> 
> 
> I end every CF class dripping with sweat, my lungs pounding, and most of my muscles screaming. In one hour. And I love it. I don't get how someone wouldn't want to incorporate that kind of intensity and overall test of abilities into their routine.



I give up, as I was trying to make amends for my previous comments. Read what you like into my total comments rather than cherry pick out just part of it. Since this is an asynchronous conversation, it would be hard to assume how my comment was given. But, you appeared to have taken it with a chip on your shoulder.


----------



## Caribbean Man

There is nothing " wrong " or " superior " about crossfit, or any other type of resistance training.

Whether or not a person chooses crossfit over any other workout regimes depends on their short and long term goals.

Recreational bodybuilders/ figure athletes like myself,might only do crossfit to cut and tone.
I personally prefer to do circuit training and HIIT when I'm cutting.

Crossfit is excellent for burning fat / calories , so too , spinbiking.

People who are into functional firness are more likely to gravitate towards crossfit.

Professional athletes would most likely do a variation of both the traditional bulking regimen and some crossfit for functionality.


----------



## Fozzy

This is why I work out at home.


----------



## Ikaika

Caribbean Man said:


> There is nothing " wrong " or " superior " about crossfit, or any other type of resistance training.
> 
> Whether or not a person chooses crossfit over any other workout regimes depends on their short and long term goals.
> 
> Recreational bodybuilders/ figure athletes like myself,might only do crossfit to cut and tone.
> I personally prefer to do circuit training and HIIT when I'm cutting.
> 
> Crossfit is excellent for burning fat / calories , so too , spinbiking.
> 
> People who are into functional firness are more likely to gravitate towards crossfit.
> 
> Professional athletes would most likely do a variation of both the traditional bulking regimen and some crossfit for functionality.



Thank you, my sentiment exactly. However for cardio, I typically do a for of interval training like tabata (HIIT). Whether that is a form of crossfit training as well, I don't know since i cannot make any expert claim. 

I guess I was a little harsh in my early judgment in what I felt constituted a proper pull-up. I apologize if I offended anyone, it was not intentional.


----------



## U.E. McGill

drerio said:


> Thank you, my sentiment exactly. However for cardio, I typically do a for of interval training like tabata (HIIT). Whether that is a form of crossfit training as well, I don't know since i cannot make any expert claim.
> 
> I guess I was a little harsh in my early judgment in what I felt constituted a proper pull-up. I apologize if I offended anyone, it was not intentional.



We do tabata in CrossFit all the time. We call it "tabata"

We tend to get our noses out of joint because people don't think it's "real" and we love to talk about ourselves. Me I don't care, haters gonna hate. I'm in great shape with CrossFit. That's the proof.


----------



## Ikaika

U.E. McGill said:


> We do tabata in CrossFit all the time. We call it "tabata"
> 
> We tend to get our noses out of joint because people don't think it's "real" and we love to talk about ourselves. Me I don't care, haters gonna hate. I'm in great shape with CrossFit. That's the proof.



I'm not a hater. In fact, I would say moving is far better than being a spectator.


----------



## Machiavelli

Functional fitness....bwhahaha! 

When you're recovering from sloppy form injuries all year, it's pretty hard to be functional.

If it works for you, you feel good, and you looked good, that's great and it's all that counts. Knock yourself out. But, it's a very hard sell to those who have been around the block a little more than the last 15 years.









Who am I?


----------



## Ikaika

A lot of it may have a lot to do with what are one's goals. I compete in my age group (when I am not injured ) in rough water swimming. It requires a balance of maintaining cardio fitness and strength in specific muscle groups for greater efficiency. I also workout with my son who plays football (TE). So, for him to compete, he needs to build a lot of leg and core strength. And, although arm strength is important for him, it is more part of the bonus package. So, without good driving strength of legs and core those DE and LB will never get blocked and the thump he receives after the 1st down reception will be a failure.


----------



## awake1

depends on your goals. 

Heck, most natural lifters can't even handle much cardio if they're trying to put on muscle, forget HIIT with weights. 

If you wanna get big as your goal, you need to move heavy weights for some reps. 5-10 is an ideal range, with 8 being a good middle ground. (though you'll get adaption for quite a few reps over that. upto 15-20 from what i've read.)

The reason for the rest between sets is that you want to limit endurance changes in type I fibers. 

Those muscles get smaller the better conditioned they are, which is why endurance runners tend to have small legs, as an example. Those fibers have the least potential for growth. They grow smaller to increase the speed of nutrient transfer. 

Type 2 fibers are the ones that get used when you minimize time and maximize intensity. Anything around 8 reps and under recruits 100% of the muscle fiber from the first rep. 

So there's probably a number of good reasons why the guys doing muscle groups once a week aren't getting bigger. 

Lift weights with high intensity too often, you burnout and backslide. But don't do it enough and by the time you head to the gym again you start to lose adaptions. 

Once every 5 days for a muscle group would probably be the minimum. But 2 days is probably the max, depending on intensity. 

Just for me, i personally run 3 days a week and lift weights 3 days a week. There's no way i could run after a pull workout with high pulls and dead lifts. 

Well, i could, but it would limit my intensity with either the dead lifts or the running. 

I tend to think if you're able to do all kinds of working with, or after, your weight lifting, you're not going heavy enough.

Bodies are different though, and to each their own.


----------



## GettingIt_2




----------



## U.E. McGill

Machiavelli said:


> Functional fitness....bwhahaha!
> 
> When you're recovering from sloppy form injuries all year, it's pretty hard to be functional.
> 
> If it works for you, you feel good, and you looked good, that's great and it's all that counts. Knock yourself out. But, it's a very hard sell to those who have been around the block a little more than the last 15 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who am I?



Same argument everyone makes. "Sloppy form". Then they drag out a picture of the founder and say "he doesn't even do it anymore!!!" He doesn't. So fücking what?

It's a straw man argument. Means nothing. Do to my travel I've been to more CrossFit boxes than I can count. Some have poor form for sure. Me, I have awesome form. Why? Because it's stressed at my gym. 

You can go to any gym and see people doing bro-reps all the time. Sloppy is sloppy no matter who you are. 

I've been lifting for more than 15 years btw.


----------



## bbdad

Crossfit has its place. I do not prefer to structure my workouts that way. I am more of a traditional body builder. I do a bit more than you described above in my "Globo gym" - to use the CF vernacular.

Crossfit gets a bad rep for sacrificing form for reps. Google some of the xfit clips you see online. Some of that stuff is horrible. 

Talk to true olympic lifters. Ask them if you should ever do a snatch as an AMRAP? Those are heavily taxing and technical lifts. They are designed for low rep work.

Again, I have worked out at a CF box in the past. I have several friends that are avid CF'ers. There are good and bad with it, as there is everything.

Just for myself, I do not like the CF workouts.


----------



## Ikaika

bbdad said:


> Crossfit has its place. I do not prefer to structure my workouts that way. I am more of a traditional body builder. I do a bit more than you described above in my "Globo gym" - to use the CF vernacular.
> 
> 
> 
> Crossfit gets a bad rep for sacrificing form for reps. Google some of the xfit clips you see online. Some of that stuff is horrible.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk to true olympic lifters. Ask them if you should ever do a snatch as an AMRAP? Those are heavily taxing and technical lifts. They are designed for low rep work.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I have worked out at a CF box in the past. I have several friends that are avid CF'ers. There are good and bad with it, as there is everything.
> 
> 
> 
> Just for myself, I do not like the CF workouts.



In looking at some of the metabolic conditioning, I believe I do employ some cross-fit routines. However, say with split squats using dumbbells, I may not do as many reps as the typical CFer, but I do it with heavier weights and concentrate on form. According to my HR monitor, I still push the aerobic limits. 

I tried the lower weight, higher reps and for me it resulted in injuries. Others who are not as injury prone may find it a great benefit. 

Caveat: I really was not that knowledgeable and needed to read up. I learned much about the topic. I say just keep moving everyone. Do what works for you.


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## Caribbean Man

bbdad said:


> Crossfit has its place. I do not prefer to structure my workouts that way. I am more of a traditional body builder. I do a bit more than you described above in my "Globo gym" - to use the CF vernacular.
> 
> Crossfit gets a bad rep for sacrificing form for reps. Google some of the xfit clips you see online. Some of that stuff is horrible.
> 
> Talk to true olympic lifters. Ask them if you should ever do a snatch as an AMRAP? Those are heavily taxing and technical lifts. They are designed for low rep work.
> 
> *Again, I have worked out at a CF box in the past. I have several friends that are avid CF'ers. There are good and bad with it, as there is everything.
> 
> Just for myself, I do not like the CF workouts*.


I used to be in the CF lifestyle myself , but it's not for me.

I know a few people in it though , and they all swear by it.


I prefer the intimidating look of four or five 45 plates and and the feel of the iron bar bending.

Here's a short youtube vid , An overture to the hardcore lifters.

I look for you pain! Pull up and deadlifts with CT Fletcher featuring Frank Medrano

And one for the ladies , because there is beauty in strength,

Women's Squat Day with CT Fletcher...


To each his own.


----------



## GettingIt_2

GettingIt said:


> View attachment 29145


My husband sent me that, btw. I would xfit everyday if I could; I love it. He got so tired of me talking about it that he finally tried it, and now we can never shut about it together. Nuthin' sexier than WODing with your man. 

Part of the reason I love it so much is that the coaches at my box are awesome and sane and stress safety and form and overall wellness above all--and the community there is tight knit and supportive and just so much fun to be around. 

I've done lots of other things over the years to stay in shape, and I might move on from xfit one day, but nothing else has ever given me the results that I'm getting now.


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## heartsbeating

GettingIt said:


> You can do these (body weight rows) with a kitchen table if you don't have an adjustable bar. Good way to isolate your lats for pull up training.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYUxXMGVuuU
> 
> One of the few uses I've found for a smith machine are body weight rows and pull ups . . .


This is kind of what I'm doing with the rings except I bring my body into a seated position, off the floor.


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## GettingIt_2

heartsbeating said:


> This is kind of what I'm doing with the rings except I bring my body into a seated position, off the floor.


Yep, you can scale with rings, working up to putting your feet on a box and keeping your body straight. You can do the same with TRX straps, too. I often use the smith machine--just lower the bar to where I want it. Body rows are great!


----------



## texasoutlaw82

So, last July I transitioned into a new job. After about a month, I decided it was time to get back into shape. I'm 5'7, was 190lbs and probably 25-28% body fat. I was skinny fat and just round. I had no definition. 

At first I initially just started working out again and not paying close attention to my diet. After about 1 month I decided I needed to go on a cut and my target goal was 160lbs. This would put me in the 10-12% body fat range. I utilized myfitnesspal to track my caloric intake and I measured all my food. Come Feb. 1st, I finally hit my target goal and decided to maintain that level for 3 months or so.

Starting in June of this year, I started a bulk(half dirty bulk at that). I'm not 183 and my strength has increased substantially. I intend to bulk to 190 before I cut down to 170 starting on Dec. 1st of this year. I will say that working out has greatly helped in my recent split from my ex. It has done wonders for my confidence as well.


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## U.E. McGill

bbdad said:


> Crossfit gets a bad rep for sacrificing form for reps. Google some of the xfit clips you see online. Some of that stuff is horrible.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk to true olympic lifters. Ask them if you should ever do a snatch as an AMRAP? Those are heavily taxing and technical lifts. They are designed for low rep work.
> 
> 
> 
> Just for myself, I do not like the CF workouts.



Just another misconception. I started Oly lifting at my box, it was taught by a regional competitor who's been Oly lifting competitively for years. We had a weekend seminar, and you know how we lifted? With PVC pipes. Why? Because form trumps all. High reps should always be done with perfect form. If your form starts to fail YOU SHOULD DROP EVEN MORE WEIGHT. 

When I weight train, I Wendler train. So most I'm doing is 7-10 reps. Now when it comes to AMRAP, if you can't lift a light weight a lot of times with good form, your going to do worse with heavy weight and low reps. 

Don't confuse lifting for the WOD. most boxes they are not the same. My box we warm up, Wendler train, skill train, wod. 

As far as YouTube videos of crossfit fails. Funny as hell. Half of them are not crossfit. 

I can google videos of bro-reps on regular gym guys too. No one ever says "hey look at these good form vids". There's just as many of those. If you want to see a truly breathtaking snatch video: 

http://youtu.be/hVTYRjSDyC4

A crossfiter.


----------



## changedbeliefs

Machiavelli said:


> Functional fitness....bwhahaha!
> 
> When you're recovering from sloppy form injuries all year, it's pretty hard to be functional.
> 
> If it works for you, you feel good, and you looked good, that's great and it's all that counts. Knock yourself out. But, it's a very hard sell to those who have been around the block a little more than the last 15 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who am I?


This is such a childish argument, and a completely condascending post. The ol' "you'll get hurt with Crossfit"?? Have you ever SEEN some people at a traditional gym?!?! I'd much rather have a personal coach at EVERY ONE of my workouts, guarding against poor form. This tactic is played out, people try to purport that CF somehow encourages poor form. Not to mention, any fitness regimen, if it seeks to push limits and expand capabilities, is not only going to risk injury, it WILL incur them. That's just a fact.

I have been around for more than just 15 years (not sure what time frame that is trying to highlight). It was 25 years ago I stepped into my HS weight room for football. No olympic lifts, no explosive training, just isolation of standard movements; above-parallel squats, bench press and lat pulldowns....la dee da. I started CF at the age of 40. The only "injuries" I've had are: some tendonitis in my shoulders/biceps (which healed through rest, which was actually done by having my coaches substitute movements so I could still workout, but not use the inflammed areas) and more recently some tendonitis in my knee (which could also be from my playing baseball, and that I've had multiple times in my life from various sports). I can only think of one person at my box who has actually been "hurt" doing Crossfit; anything else is just soreness, and it's completely erroneous to believe that's a CF problem, and not part and parcel of any fitness routine. If your body isn't sore on any sort of regular basis, you're not challenging it.

And, FTR, Crossfit isn't much of a hard sell, outside you, apparently. There are more than 10,000 affiliates. More than 200,000 people registered for the CF Open this past spring. The proof remains in the people. Go watch the videos of the Regionals (so as not to be accused of telling you to only watch the elite at the Games), look at the variety of body types, and watch what they're capable of, and then just try to replicate it. Ask people who have followed CF for some extended period of time (not someone who tried three classes at three different boxes, failed a snatch and then quit) what they think of it. A bunch of half-****ed dismissals - capped off with a pic of Glassman and his paunch like it's a valid criticism of the tenets of Crossfit - is immature.


----------



## changedbeliefs

Caribbean Man said:


> Crossfit is excellent for burning fat / calories , so too , spinbiking.


Crossfit and spinning.....comparable?!? My head coach has a 400+# back squat (at about 180# bodyweight) and a high 2--# something snatch. He's elite. A friend of mine, a regular old mother and wife, has a 255# back squat. My back squat PR is 305# and I have a 225# split jerk. Another coach of ours is a 46 y/o female, she has a 200+ back squat. CF and spinning aren't nearly for the same purpose.


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## changedbeliefs

drerio said:


> I give up, as I was trying to make amends for my previous comments. Read what you like into my total comments rather than cherry pick out just part of it. Since this is an asynchronous conversation, it would be hard to assume how my comment was given. But, you appeared to have taken it with a chip on your shoulder.


What exactly are you taking such offense to? I didn't "cherry pick" anything, that implies I took something out of context to serve a purpose. "Asynchronous"??? Did I somehow imply that I wasn't open to a response? I started by stating my curiosity and asking you to respond. Geez, defensive much??


----------



## Caribbean Man

changedbeliefs said:


> Crossfit and spinning.....comparable?!? My head coach has a 400+# back squat (at about 180# bodyweight) and a high 2--# something snatch. He's elite. A friend of mine, a regular old mother and wife, has a 255# back squat. My back squat PR is 305# and I have a 225# split jerk. Another coach of ours is a 46 y/o female, she has a 200+ back squat. CF and spinning aren't nearly for the same purpose.


Of course they're comparable , but like I said before , it's based on your goals.

My deadlift PR is 550lbs , B.Bell rows 350lbs strict form , OHP [ military press] 200 lbs strict form , B.Bell Bench 250 lbs , D.Bell Bench 125 each , weighted dips and pull ups , bodyweight + two 45 plates on a belt.

LMAO, I fly 50lbs D,Bells.
My weight is currently 232 lbs.,on a bulking cycle and height around 6'-8."

Whenever I want to cut , I simply jump on the spinbike and do an hour daily in addition to HIIT and tweaking my carb and water intake.

If I wanted, I could just as easily switch to crossfit and achieve the same thing in the same time.

_But I might get injured , my joints can't take that sort of beating._

It all depends on your goals and personal preference.


----------



## Ikaika

changedbeliefs said:


> What exactly are you taking such offense to? *I didn't "cherry pick" anything*, that implies I took something out of context to serve a purpose. "Asynchronous"??? Did I somehow imply that I wasn't open to a response? I started by stating my curiosity and asking you to respond. Geez, defensive much??



I did not take offense to your remark, I just did not understand your comment in making assumption about what I said. Since you don't know me, I find it hard for you to make any judgements about me. But you are free to carry on.




drerio said:


> * I am ok with it... I also say each to his/her own when it comes to workouts. *. I apologize for creating any angst about the issue. I guess as long as one is working out and moving over a sedentary lifestyle, that is a good thing. Of course, I'm not likely to adopt the crossfit routines into my workout.



I probably should have restated I'm not likely to adopt CF as my sole workout. I do in fact have some of it in there as I stated later on


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## bbdad

Why are CF guys so militant in defending their workout protocols? CF is not for everyone. There is good and bad with CF. If you can't see that, then you are just blind or willfully ignorant.

There is no ONE end all be all fitness regimen. For every CF success story you have, I am sure there is a CF failure. For every CF success, there is just as many in spin class, or traditional weight training, or whatever.

Great, CF inspires you to be better. You know what, traditional body building inspires me to be better. That is great for both of us. As long as you have something you will stick with and will improve your health and fitness, then great.

We are not trying to force you to give up your CF belief system. Enjoy it for what you get out of it. I enjoy traditional body building for what I get out of it.


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## U.E. McGill

Nice dead lift Caribbean.


----------



## Ikaika

bbdad said:


> Why are CF guys so militant in defending their workout protocols? CF is not for everyone. There is good and bad with CF. If you can't see that, then you are just blind or willfully ignorant.
> 
> There is no ONE end all be all fitness regimen. For every CF success story you have, I am sure there is a CF failure. For every CF success, there is just as many in spin class, or traditional weight training, or whatever.
> 
> Great, CF inspires you to be better. You know what, traditional body building inspires me to be better. That is great for both of us. As long as you have something you will stick with and will improve your health and fitness, then great.
> 
> We are not trying to force you to give up your CF belief system. Enjoy it for what you get out of it. I enjoy traditional body building for what I get out of it.



Totally agree. I would like to restate for the record that my typical workout is more like a hybrid, some CF with weight lifting (as both are described).


----------



## Caribbean Man

U.E. McGill said:


> Nice dead lift Caribbean.


Thanks.
I like deadlifts and they are the cornerstone of my back workouts.

My bench is lagging, but I'm working on it. [ long arms. ]


----------



## U.E. McGill

bbdad said:


> Why are CF guys so militant in defending their workout protocols? CF is not for everyone. There is good and bad with CF. If you can't see that, then you are just blind or willfully ignorant.
> 
> There is no ONE end all be all fitness regimen. For every CF success story you have, I am sure there is a CF failure. For every CF success, there is just as many in spin class, or traditional weight training, or whatever.
> 
> Great, CF inspires you to be better. You know what, traditional body building inspires me to be better. That is great for both of us. As long as you have something you will stick with and will improve your health and fitness, then great.
> 
> We are not trying to force you to give up your CF belief system. Enjoy it for what you get out of it. I enjoy traditional body building for what I get out of it.



I'm militant about any misinformed attitude. Mach drops the usual bomb and it was incorrect and unfounded. A previous poster also talked about high reps promoting bad form which is contrary to everything I do. Don't care if people like CrossFit but I will correct bad information.


----------



## bbdad

Every CF box I have been to or every CF competition I have witnessed will have you do excessive reps for many lifts. They will even sacrifice form to get in the number of reps.

Hell, the commentators in the 2013 CF games even mentioned that form was not required to be strict. A guy was doing a snatch lift and dropped to one knee then got up. That is NOT proper form. But, his last rep counted.

So, yes, CF does at times promote reps over form.

Just realize not everyone is 100% for or against it.


----------



## Ikaika

U.E. McGill said:


> I'm militant about any misinformed attitude. Mach drops the usual bomb and it was incorrect and unfounded. A previous poster also talked about high reps promoting bad form which is contrary to everything I do. Don't care if people like CrossFit but I will correct bad information.



I'm ok with this, well said. I don't have an ego to feed so I will say I do appreciate your explanation and corrections to my original post.


----------



## Ikaika

On another note, no way could I push the weight that CM and bbdad push. I am getting closer to crossing over to that point where I bench and squat more than my body weight. I will continue to move till I'm dead.


----------



## awake1

From everything i know about crossfit, it's not bad per se, it's just less efficient for the goal of building muscle. And really, crossfit doesn't claim to be this. It's the jack of all trades. 

The question is, which is better, the jack of all trades or specializing. (such as bodybuilding/strength training + say, running.) 

I would tend to say running and weight lifting are more efficient. It's probably not going to burn you out and has less chance for injury. You'll get more hypertrophy from the weight lifting, and get at least as much improvement on the cardio side of things from the running.


----------



## Machiavelli

changedbeliefs said:


> A bunch of half-****ed dismissals - capped off with a pic of Glassman and his paunch like it's a valid criticism of the tenets of Crossfit - is immature.


Glassman is a fraud.

_“No successful strength and conditioning program anywhere has ever been derived from scientific principles.”_ - Greg Glassman


----------



## U.E. McGill

Awake: there's truth to that. If you want to get in top athletic shape 4 hours a week ain't gonna cut it. If your dedicated, and stick to a program, well that's better than nothing regardless.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Machiavelli said:


> Glassman is a fraud.
> 
> _“No successful strength and conditioning program anywhere has ever been derived from scientific principles.”_ - Greg Glassman



Here we go again. Straw man arguments. 

IBM helped the nazis. Steve jobs completely ripped off Xerox. The business world is filled with dubious people and their acts.


----------



## As'laDain

i just have a warning for those who get started into crossfit:

take it slow. i made the mistake of jumping in with both feet and it nearly costed me my life. i went down from exertional rhabdomyolysis.

my blood was so full of destroyed muscle contents that my heart stopped twelve times while i was in the hospital and i have lost 20% of my kidneys. the doctors didnt know if i was going to survive for the first couple days. they were pretty shocked at how bad my case was.

so there you have it. i did make a full recovery, and i still do crossfit, but i pay better attention to my body now.


----------



## awake1

As'laDain said:


> i just have a warning for those who get started into crossfit:
> 
> take it slow. i made the mistake of jumping in with both feet and it nearly costed me my life. i went down from exertional rhabdomyolysis.
> 
> my blood was so full of destroyed muscle contents that my heart stopped twelve times while i was in the hospital and i have lost 20% of my kidneys. the doctors didnt know if i was going to survive for the first couple days. they were pretty shocked at how bad my case was.
> 
> so there you have it. i did make a full recovery, and i still do crossfit, but i pay better attention to my body now.


Can i ask why you decided to do it again?

Why not move to a more mainstream option?


----------



## GettingIt_2

Uncle Rhabo and Pukie the Clown: the dubious mascots of Crossfit. 

You can push any sport/fitness activity to an extreme. I think Crossfit, more than being inherently dangerous, tends to attract athletes that habitually push themselves to the limit. If you end up in a xfit community that includes a high number of athletes that are willing to risk their health in order to hit their next milestone, then you might tend to think it's the sport, and not the crazy dudes. 

It's the crazy dudes. It's not the sport. 

And I say that as a crazy dude-ette.


----------



## As'laDain

GettingIt said:


> Uncle Rhabo and Pukie the Clown: the dubious mascots of Crossfit.
> 
> You can push any sport/fitness activity to an extreme. I think Crossfit, more than being inherently dangerous, tends to attract athletes that habitually push themselves to the limit. If you end up in a xfit community that includes a high number of athletes that are willing to risk their health in order to hit their next milestone, then you might tend to think it's the sport, and not the crazy dudes.
> 
> It's the crazy dudes. It's not the sport.
> 
> And I say that as a crazy dude-ette.


this is spot on. the only reason i went down from rabdo is because i ignored all my bodies warning signs. 

but, at the same time, i had always done that and i had always been ok. i didnt even know it was possible to push yourself that hard.


----------



## As'laDain

awake1 said:


> Can i ask why you decided to do it again?
> 
> Why not move to a more mainstream option?


because crossfit got me in better shape for what i do for a living. 
being in good shape is pretty important in my career field...


----------



## changedbeliefs

bbdad said:


> Why are CF guys so militant in defending their workout protocols? CF is not for everyone. There is good and bad with CF. If you can't see that, then you are just blind or willfully ignorant.
> 
> There is no ONE end all be all fitness regimen. For every CF success story you have, I am sure there is a CF failure. For every CF success, there is just as many in spin class, or traditional weight training, or whatever.


If what you are doing works for you, fine, I will never try to influence someone away from something that is fitting their needs. My problem is that, you don't hear "CF isn't for everyone," you hear, "CF encourages bad form.....if you do CF, you'll get injured....CF is dangerous.....you can't get strong with CF...." That is not opinion, it is outright MISinformation at worst, and at the least is grossly out of context (i.e., ANY exercise style, bodybuilding, marathon running, etc..., has its participants occasionally getting injured). That's when CF'ers defend. Say you tried and didn't like it. Say you're not into Olympic lifting. Say you don't see a purpose in climbing ropes. Say you want more focus on running. Fine. There are WAY too many people who are ridiculously strong, pound for pound, and have great endurance, and mobility and gymnastic ability....all as a result of doing Crossfit.....and who LOVE doing CF, btw, to say the paradigm is just inherently flawed.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Did somebody say crossfit?!?!? I only talk about it when its a topic of discussion. I've been doing it for a little over two months and I have to say that I'm sold. I didn't know how out of shape I was until I started. Its humbling watching soccer moms and guys that have a lot more belly fat than you do absolutely kill a workout while you're on the floor on your hands and knees and barely able to breathe. Yes, I did throw up once during my first week, but I haven't since. I'm now able to complete the workouts but I'm nowhere near elite.

As for the transformation that happens when you do it I think it really depends on the body type you have in the first place. I've dropped roughly 20lbs since starting. Funny thing is I got out of shape without even realizing it because I was born with a metabolism that allowed me to eat and drink whatever I wanted and still have a six pack. At 35 that went out the window, I started getting more belly fat, and I didn't change how I ate. But after two months of Crossfit I'm only about 10lbs away from the body I had in my twenties. My wife is both excited and pissed about it at the same time because it happened so quickly.

I can't speak for anyone else but the program works for me. There are also mods you can do to add additional weightlifting or more endurance training if you want. I'm not there yet though I'm just getting started, and so far the results have been amazing.


----------



## U.E. McGill

ReformedHubby said:


> Did somebody say crossfit?!?!? I only talk about it when its a topic of discussion. I've been doing it for a little over two months and I have to say that I'm sold. I didn't know how out of shape I was until I started. Its humbling watching soccer moms and guys that have a lot more belly fat than you do absolutely kill a workout while you're on the floor on your hands and knees and barely able to breathe. Yes, I did throw up once during my first week, but I haven't since. I'm now able to complete the workouts but I'm nowhere near elite.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the transformation that happens when you do it I think it really depends on the body type you have in the first place. I've dropped roughly 20lbs since starting. Funny thing is I got out of shape without even realizing it because I was born with a metabolism that allowed me to eat and drink whatever I wanted and still have a six pack. At 35 that went out the window, I started getting more belly fat, and I didn't change how I ate. But after two months of Crossfit I'm only about 10lbs away from the body I had in my twenties. My wife is both excited and pissed about it at the same time because it happened so quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but the program works for me. There are also mods you can do to add additional weightlifting or more endurance training if you want. I'm not there yet though I'm just getting started, and so far the results have been amazing.



I knew I had "arrived" when a college kid told me "wow, your old and you kicked my ass!" After a for-time WOD.


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## ReformedHubby

U.E. McGill said:


> I knew I had "arrived" when a college kid told me "wow, your old and you kicked my ass!" After a for-time WOD.


For me that day will be when I can do a muscle up. For now I have to do pull ups or ring rows as a modification. It just looks impossible.


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## GettingIt_2

ReformedHubby said:


> Did somebody say crossfit?!?!? I only talk about it when its a topic of discussion. I've been doing it for a little over two months and I have to say that I'm sold. I didn't know how out of shape I was until I started. Its humbling watching soccer moms and guys that have a lot more belly fat than you do absolutely kill a workout while you're on the floor on your hands and knees and barely able to breathe. Yes, I did throw up once during my first week, but I haven't since. I'm now able to complete the workouts but I'm nowhere near elite.
> 
> As for the transformation that happens when you do it I think it really depends on the body type you have in the first place. I've dropped roughly 20lbs since starting. Funny thing is I got out of shape without even realizing it because I was born with a metabolism that allowed me to eat and drink whatever I wanted and still have a six pack. At 35 that went out the window, I started getting more belly fat, and I didn't change how I ate. But after two months of Crossfit I'm only about 10lbs away from the body I had in my twenties. My wife is both excited and pissed about it at the same time because it happened so quickly.
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but the program works for me. There are also mods you can do to add additional weightlifting or more endurance training if you want. I'm not there yet though I'm just getting started, and so far the results have been amazing.


My husband started xfit about two months ago as well, and he's having the same experience you describe. When I started xfit I was already in good shape; but he's doing this to GET back in shape, and I'm pretty amazed at the results he's already seeing. 

Like you, he's a little depressed about working out with folks (ahem: women) who are much further along in the process than he is, but so much of the early learning curve is getting the lifts down, getting your form down . . . and THEN adding the weight. If you're comparing yourself as a flat-out beginner to the gal who's been xfitting for a year, then yes it can seem discouraging. But don't compare yourself to others: track your own progress--that will be much more inspiring because the improvements will be rapid. Also, if you compare yourself to others, you're more likely to get discouraged. I guarantee you the regular xfitters aren't looking at you and thinking, "what a loser." They are focused on their own workouts, and they know that any of the newbies that stick with it will soon been pulling alongside and even passing them up.


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## jorgegene

As'laDain said:


> this is spot on. the only reason i went down from rabdo is because i ignored all my bodies warning signs.
> 
> but, at the same time, i had always done that and i had always been ok. i didnt even know it was possible to push yourself that hard.


what were your body's warning signs?

for the others to watch out for?


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## As'laDain

Sharp, persistent pain in my muscles. I would push myself to muscle failure, then before I was fully recovered I would jump back into the same exercises. I over stressed my muscles while they were still weak. I did that to all of my muscle groups in one day. Next morning I ended up in the hospital.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene

Wow.

That ain't good.

I always work through my pain. Always have.

Not crossfit though, but maybe it doesn't matter.

When you say push to muscle failure, what does that mean exactly?

what were the actual symptoms that made you go to ER?


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## As'laDain

Muscle failure is that point where your muscles just don't want to work anymore. Go down and do as many pushups as you can. Muscle failure is that point where you can't do anymore without taking a break. 

And the symptom that sent me to the ER was sudden loss of consciousness. My platoon carried me to the medics and they rushed me to the ER.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill

jorgegene said:


> Wow.
> 
> That ain't good.
> 
> I always work through my pain. Always have.
> 
> Not crossfit though, but maybe it doesn't matter.
> 
> When you say push to muscle failure, what does that mean exactly?
> 
> what were the actual symptoms that made you go to ER?



Working through soreness is ok. Working through injury is wrong.


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## As'laDain

U.E. McGill said:


> Working through soreness is ok. Working through injury is wrong.


true. but sometimes we dont know injury from soreness. 
crossfit is odd in that its easy for a guy just starting out to be able to injure themselves without even being in good shape. it has to do with the type of exercises.

its called eccentric movements. basically, while the body is still moving one direction, start moving it the other way. 

the difference between a crossfit squat and a regular squat is that while im still moving down i start pushing to pop back up. with crossfit anyway. kettle bells are another example. while the kettle bell is still going up, im already tugging it back down. pull ups(with kipping) same deal. you dont get tired before micro tears start showing up in the muscles, which is why it can be dangerous.

its very easy to injure yourself when starting out, even if you are in stellar shape.

it IS something your body can become used to(my workouts now are harder than the one that almost killed me), but it takes some serious conditioning.


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## awake1

Crossfit is bad for rhabdo because it's always pushing you. Which is counterproductive in my opinion. 

Supposedly keeping hydrated and not pushing yourself in the heat are two major ways to limit it. As is gradually working into your program and not destroying yourself all the time.


And also, whether crossfit or not, you don't need to grind your body into dust day in and day out. Leave a rep or two in the tank and you'll probably be better able to handle the next workout. 

Doing that one rep won't magically give you 50lbs of lean mass. It wont take you from 200lb bench to a 250lb bench or make you lose 100lbs.

It's not any one workout, its the consistency that pays off.


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## As'laDain

awake1 said:


> Crossfit is bad for rhabdo because it's always pushing you. Which is counterproductive in my opinion.
> 
> Supposedly keeping hydrated and not pushing yourself in the heat are two major ways to limit it. As is gradually working into your program and not destroying yourself all the time.
> 
> 
> And also, whether crossfit or not, you don't need to grind your body into dust day in and day out. Leave a rep or two in the tank and you'll probably be better able to handle the next workout.
> 
> Doing that one rep won't magically give you 50lbs of lean mass. It wont take you from 200lb bench to a 250lb bench or make you lose 100lbs.
> 
> It's not any one workout, its the consistency that pays off.



it was my mentality. i was used to pushing my body as far as it would go. thats just incredibly dangerous with crossfit...

i had just left the special forces qualification course, so i was still in that "push until you drop" mindset. i didnt even think about it.


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## awake1

As'laDain said:


> it was my mentality. i was used to pushing my body as far as it would go. thats just incredibly dangerous with crossfit...
> 
> i had just left the special forces qualification course, so i was still in that "push until you drop" mindset. i didnt even think about it.




I think we all have that mindset, and its generally counter productive. 

That extra 5 seconds in a sprint or 5 extra pushups will not make all the difference. Going to failure all the time will just burn you out. (or cause injury)

I think we all just assume if some is good, more must be better. But there's a point of diminishing returns, then past that, a sharp drop off where you start to back slide. 

If someone can barely run a 5k, they think "well to work up to a 10k, i should just keep pushing!" So they go and run 5k every day. 

What happens is at the end of 2 weeks, they find that now even a 5k is a grueling test of discipline. So they push hard, and harder, smacking their head against a wall. 

In reality you want to push for awhile, and back off for awhile (but not completely) to give your body a chance to heal up. 

In weight lifting for example, you push for say, 4 weeks, then take 2 or 3 and back off 20% from your top weights and gradually work your way back up. 


We live in a fitness culture where you must hit failure in everything. To do anything less is a mistake. And if you don't you're just a wuss. 

After 5 years, if you had two twins and one went to failure all the time, and one stopped just a rep short of failure, they'd both look largely the same. Except one would probably be in better overall shape (especially joints) and probably be in a better mood. He'd also not dread going to the gym all the time. 

I'm just saying this in general not necessarily talking to anyone in particular. 

I had to learn deloads myself, the hard way, after stalling on my lifts for more than a few months. Now i program deloading into everything i do, including running.


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## U.E. McGill

awake1 said:


> I think we all have that mindset, and its generally counter productive.
> 
> That extra 5 seconds in a sprint or 5 extra pushups will not make all the difference. Going to failure all the time will just burn you out. (or cause injury)
> 
> I think we all just assume if some is good, more must be better. But there's a point of diminishing returns, then past that, a sharp drop off where you start to back slide.
> 
> If someone can barely run a 5k, they think "well to work up to a 10k, i should just keep pushing!" So they go and run 5k every day.
> 
> What happens is at the end of 2 weeks, they find that now even a 5k is a grueling test of discipline. So they push hard, and harder, smacking their head against a wall.
> 
> In reality you want to push for awhile, and back off for awhile (but not completely) to give your body a chance to heal up.
> 
> In weight lifting for example, you push for say, 4 weeks, then take 2 or 3 and back off 20% from your top weights and gradually work your way back up.
> 
> 
> We live in a fitness culture where you must hit failure in everything. To do anything less is a mistake. And if you don't you're just a wuss.
> 
> After 5 years, if you had two twins and one went to failure all the time, and one stopped just a rep short of failure, they'd both look largely the same. Except one would probably be in better overall shape (especially joints) and probably be in a better mood. He'd also not dread going to the gym all the time.
> 
> I'm just saying this in general not necessarily talking to anyone in particular.
> 
> I had to learn deloads myself, the hard way, after stalling on my lifts for more than a few months. Now i program deloading into everything i do, including running.



This is why programs like Wendler are so good. There's also something to be said for taking a week off every 8 weeks or so, from weight training.


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## GettingIt_2

awake1 said:


> I think we all have that mindset, and its generally counter productive.
> 
> That extra 5 seconds in a sprint or 5 extra pushups will not make all the difference. Going to failure all the time will just burn you out. (or cause injury)
> 
> I think we all just assume if some is good, more must be better. But there's a point of diminishing returns, then past that, a sharp drop off where you start to back slide.
> 
> If someone can barely run a 5k, they think "well to work up to a 10k, i should just keep pushing!" So they go and run 5k every day.
> 
> What happens is at the end of 2 weeks, they find that now even a 5k is a grueling test of discipline. So they push hard, and harder, smacking their head against a wall.
> 
> In reality you want to push for awhile, and back off for awhile (but not completely) to give your body a chance to heal up.
> 
> In weight lifting for example, you push for say, 4 weeks, then take 2 or 3 and back off 20% from your top weights and gradually work your way back up.
> 
> 
> We live in a fitness culture where you must hit failure in everything. To do anything less is a mistake. And if you don't you're just a wuss.
> 
> After 5 years, if you had two twins and one went to failure all the time, and one stopped just a rep short of failure, they'd both look largely the same. Except one would probably be in better overall shape (especially joints) and probably be in a better mood. He'd also not dread going to the gym all the time.
> 
> I'm just saying this in general not necessarily talking to anyone in particular.
> 
> I had to learn deloads myself, the hard way, after stalling on my lifts for more than a few months. Now i program deloading into everything i do, including running.


I think this is something a lot of folks learn the hard way. You want to see progress all the time, so it becomes push, push, push. I'm as guilty of it as the next person, but I think as you age you learn that pushing results in more injury and more down time, and you tend to start looking for better (less painful) ways to make that progress, even if it takes more patience and time. 

There is a woman at my xfit gym who I've always been puzzled by. She is absolutely nothing but lean muscle mass--very cut, an avid runner, and always trying to lift at the top of her maxes. The thing is . . . she's not that strong for her size and body weight. It's weird; I'd expect her to be able to kick my butt, but I've always got more on the bar and she struggles with the weights she loads. I found out recently that she's in therapy for exercise addiction. She says her anxiety about exercise has really impacted her life--all she things about is her next workout. She's currently brewing an injury and is just working through the pain because she's afraid if she sees a doc she'll have to take a few weeks off from running.


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## Fozzy

GettingIt said:


> I think this is something a lot of folks learn the hard way. You want to see progress all the time, so it becomes push, push, push. I'm as guilty of it as the next person, but I think as you age you learn that pushing results in more injury and more down time, and you tend to start looking for better (less painful) ways to make that progress, even if it takes more patience and time.
> 
> There is a woman at my xfit gym who I've always been puzzled by. She is absolutely nothing but lean muscle mass--very cut, an avid runner, and always trying to lift at the top of her maxes. The thing is . . . she's not that strong for her size and body weight. It's weird; I'd expect her to be able to kick my butt, but I've always got more on the bar and she struggles with the weights she loads. * I found out recently that she's in therapy for exercise addiction*. She says her anxiety about exercise has really impacted her life--all she things about is her next workout. She's currently brewing an injury and is just working through the pain because she's afraid if she sees a doc she'll have to take a few weeks off from running.


I didn't even know this was a thing. Interesting.


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## U.E. McGill

GettingIt said:


> I think this is something a lot of folks learn the hard way. You want to see progress all the time, so it becomes push, push, push. I'm as guilty of it as the next person, but I think as you age you learn that pushing results in more injury and more down time, and you tend to start looking for better (less painful) ways to make that progress, even if it takes more patience and time.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a woman at my xfit gym who I've always been puzzled by. She is absolutely nothing but lean muscle mass--very cut, an avid runner, and always trying to lift at the top of her maxes. The thing is . . . she's not that strong for her size and body weight. It's weird; I'd expect her to be able to kick my butt, but I've always got more on the bar and she struggles with the weights she loads. I found out recently that she's in therapy for exercise addiction. She says her anxiety about exercise has really impacted her life--all she things about is her next workout. She's currently brewing an injury and is just working through the pain because she's afraid if she sees a doc she'll have to take a few weeks off from running.



You should tell the coaches. She needs to be cut loose and told to go home.


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## U.E. McGill

Here's real scientific data that shows Crossfit is no more dangerous than the specialized sports is sources from. In fact it's less dangerous than rugby. Is it injury free? Heck no, but not any more so than other competitive sports. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24276294/

So when haters like Machiavelli spew half-truths and deception, here's hard data. 

Stick that in your YOUTUBE.


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## Ikaika

U.E. McGill said:


> Here's real scientific data that shows Crossfit is no more dangerous than the specialized sports is sources from. In fact it's less dangerous than rugby. Is it injury free? Heck no, but not any more so than other competitive sports.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24276294/
> 
> So when haters like Machiavelli spew half-truths and deception, here's hard data.
> 
> Stick that in your YOUTUBE.



I would not worry too much about criticisms from others. What works for you is all you need be focused on in maintaining your health. 

In contrast, the most unsafe lifestyle is one where an individual is too satiated and too sedentary.


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## bbdad

U.E. McGill said:


> Here's real scientific data that shows Crossfit is no more dangerous than the specialized sports is sources from. In fact it's less dangerous than rugby. Is it injury free? Heck no, but not any more so than other competitive sports.
> 
> The nature and prevalence of injury dur - PubMed Mobile
> 
> So when haters like Machiavelli spew half-truths and deception, here's hard data.
> 
> Stick that in your YOUTUBE.


It is an online survey from a Crossfit forum. Maybe I am just too much of a cynic, but I would assume that those who participate in the online crossfit forum would be pro-crossfit and maybe not fully report all injuries sustained from Crossfit.

But dude, get over the hate. If you love crossfit and it works for you, then be happy and do it. It is not for everyone, and that is perfectly cool. It is great for some and not for others. Enjoy it when you do it. Get out and move. Have fun!!!


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## U.E. McGill

bbdad said:


> It is an online survey from a Crossfit forum. Maybe I am just too much of a cynic, but I would assume that those who participate in the online crossfit forum would be pro-crossfit and maybe not fully report all injuries sustained from Crossfit.
> 
> But dude, get over the hate. If you love crossfit and it works for you, then be happy and do it. It is not for everyone, and that is perfectly cool. It is great for some and not for others. Enjoy it when you do it. Get out and move. Have fun!!!



Nope. I didn't open the can of worms. Like I said people drop bombs without regard to the truth. It has nothing to do with CrossFit per se and more to do with anti trolling. 

The NIH has pretty good credentials, I'm going to assume they vetted their data accordingly.


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## As'laDain

doing the same thing for years, i never injured myself much. then i tried applying my normal level of effort to crossfit and i nearly died. 

but crossfit isnt dangerous blah blah blah. 

i lost 20% of my kidneys because nobody bothered to warn me. 
so ill warn people about it.


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## bbdad

Like I said, whatever works for you. Enjoy your CF. I'll enjoy my body building. I won't try to coerce or guilt you into doing BB workouts. Just enjoy your life. You seem way too invested in people LOVING crossfit.

But, regardless, if it works for you, GREAT!!!


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