# Mmmmmmmm. Not sure about how to do this one...



## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Right,

Many on here have trouble getting sex, when it's more specifically really down to themselves not meeting the needs correctly and/or being completely dominated by losing their "manned up" status.

I have a new one here which I am not sure if anyone has come across.

Whilst my partner has made attempts to "show the love" etc, I have been slightly reserved in the outcome of manning up as I have not received the sexual heights I believed may come of it.

Now, everything in our relationship is fine apart from not getting as much as I would like. My partner understands this and can understand it.

Now this is the added complication, she has a generally low libido, mine is currently raging. Bad combo yes. I am meeting her needs (as per her words, and the praise she is giving me unto others). I have now come across the reason. And its something I never thought I would understand, but kind of do now, but it's a case of, where the hell do I/We go from here.

She has PCOS, and until this morning when I read more and more about it didn't realise this can have a real negative affect on the libido.

How the hell do we solve that one!

I can do all the manning up in the world, and It is not going to make any difference whatsoever, and I think my Partner doesn't realise this too (well I am sure she does, but I don't think she would openly admit it incase she thinks I decide to "play around").

I honestly think I am about to be a once a week or every other week guy and theirs nothing I/We can do about it.

Very very long shot here, but has anyone else on here come across being with a partner of low drive with this PCOS?

I don't even know where to begin looking into how we can fix this


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Can you describe how you have manned up and how your relationship dynamics have changed?


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

ok, 10 years into a short (ish) post.

Met ten years ago. She was an extremely raging jellous girl. For the most part, I had over the years learned how to cope with this and made her feel more at ease to a point where she gained all the trust she needed.

During that time we split up for about 10 months (I wasn't meeting her needs, so I realise in the last few months).

Since getting back together (2004 ish), we have grown, got ourselves family (4yo and 2yo, another story battling with trying to control them), move into new house (2007). All the time every 6 months she would go "funny" and say I was not being the partner I was etc.

So, December last year came, and I was fed up. I mean really fed up of these cycles. After some soul searching find that I wasn't actually meeting the needs she now needs (Different needs after having kids). I lose a lot of respect and basically become a doormat over the years.

Now, I have realised her needs (she can now see this) and am meeting them daily. She is responding better, happier but still not as much sex as I need. She now sings my praises to everyone about how much I am helping (and I actually feel guilt not doing this beforehand). Just, sex and affection missing (well not completely, just not as much as I would like).

We both have health issues, I have crohns, and she has PCOS. one very similar symptom is fatigue, I didn't really realise this on the PCOS (see above 6 monthly "funny" cycles) and was basically self centred about this until I realised "her needs".

She now has more energy, but still the sex isn't as frequent as I would like, I have gained back my respect, her resppect, set relevant boundries etc and she is respecting them very well.

I came to a point last night, that we had a graet day, she stated she was full of energy and I honestly felt last night we could "get going". It didn't, I was very frustrated.

This morning I began to look more into PCOS (yes I haven't too much, because I feel she ought to "share" it (after all, why should I be the one making all the effort, when she hasn't put in as much effort as I think she should). She gets all my ailments explained to her.

And their it was. PCOS can cause a great loss in Libido. I don't know if she is aware of this, she certainly hasn't said it.

So here I am, supposedly meeting "her needs", not having mine met (ok some, not all). And am very frustrated.

Its like, how much do I have to put up with in life, My respect for others is being eroded, and I can see myself eventually saying, F*** this, i'm done with everyone when no one seems to udnerstand my POV.

Does this paint a selfish picture? (not meant to, its just been offloaded, and I am far from selfish)


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Well if your wife loves you and is trying but has a medical condition, then you can't really blame her. I would not say F&^k it if you love her.

However I still believe that even with a low drive she could still be aroused and become interested and you don't know for sure what is causing it. Have her go and have tests done and see what she can take etc.

Also how aggressive are you in the bedroom?


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Syrum said:


> Well if your wife loves you and is trying but has a medical condition, then you can't really blame her. I would not say F&^k it if you love her.


I don't want to chalk F*** it, but I am starting to become resentful for it. I really don't think she understands just how much this is building up (or more likely, she doesn't want to understand)



> However I still believe that even with a low drive she could still be aroused and become interested and you don't know for sure what is causing it. Have her go and have tests done and see what she can take etc.


At this point in time, I think it would halm things if I said to her, go have some tests, but might try it, i've nothing to lose here



> Also how aggressive are you in the bedroom?


Difficult one, I tend to be more "loving" when I am coaxing her (if you like). and tend to be more agressive when I just ged fed up. I know I probably send mix signals with this one, but, I am seriously getting so frustrated with it.

I feel as though I have gone round in one giant circle, here I am meeting her needs, and beginning to feel resentful because at times it comes across from her that she just doesn't give a S*** about my needs


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

How frequently do you have sex in an average week?

Is she a stay at home mom?




Neil said:


> I don't want to chalk F*** it, but I am starting to become resentful for it. I really don't think she understands just how much this is building up (or more likely, she doesn't want to understand)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> How frequently do you have sex in an average week?
> 
> Is she a stay at home mom?


She's not really a SAHM, she works part time (monday's, Friday's and Sunday's).

In an average week, covering the last few months (ie when I first appeared on here back at the beginning of Jan and going through my "journey"), to average has stayed roughly the same, ie once every 7/8 days. (sometimes I might get lucky and reduce it to 5 or 6).

I have openly stated that she is not meeting my needs in this sense, and told her I would be happy at 3 a week, and at a push 2. but not one. She even said last week when we actually discussed it a little that she didn't think she could go to every night (hence my stating i'm not asking for it every night, but the above, ie 3 at a push 2).


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

in addition, I don't think I have fully got rid of the "nice guy", I would say around 80/90% of it, but still, I think I have an issue which is not the "norm" in realtionship status quo's (which is probably my luck)


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Neil said:


> She has PCOS, and until this morning when I read more and more about it didn't realise this can have a real negative affect on the libido.
> 
> How the hell do we solve that one!
> 
> ...


Perhaps I can be of help with this one. I've had PCOS a very long time and have learned how to successfully manage the problem. In fact, the doctors basically allow me to mange my own medication dosages now. Just remember a woman with PCOS can be a good thing guys. The condition makes us produce too much testosterone which equals higher sex drive. But the whole PCOS condition is a individual balancing act.

Your wife needs to find a competent endocrinologist--most doctors don't have a clue how to manage the condition. Some people can mange the problem by diet alone--getting rid of sugars and reducing carbohydrates. Others, like myself, rely on metformin and Aldactone. The metformin makes the body use insulin while the Aldactone removes testosterone. When properly done, the results are amazing! 

Hope your wife can get help....and you become a happy man.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

827Aug said:


> Perhaps I can be of help with this one. I've had PCOS a very long time and have learned how to successfully manage the problem. In fact, the doctors basically allow me to mange my own medication dosages now. Just remember a woman with PCOS can be a good thing guys. The condition makes us produce too much testosterone which equals higher sex drive. But the whole PCOS condition is a individual balancing act.
> 
> Your wife needs to find a competent endocrinologist--most doctors don't have a clue how to manage the condition. Some people can mange the problem by diet alone--getting rid of sugars and reducing carbohydrates. Others, like myself, rely on metformin and Aldactone. The metformin makes the body use insulin while the Aldactone removes testosterone. When properly done, the results are amazing!
> 
> Hope your wife can get help....and you become a happy man.



Well thats part of the issue. I can see both ends of the spectrum, I know it can also have the opposite effect with testorone incereasing the drive, I just seem to have to the other end of the stick...

I suppose thats what I can't understand too much, but its also important to know that she is not on any medication at all.

She does most of the time, manage to control some of the issues, but this is all her own work (with help from me). But their are times I really think some medication would help too, but I don't know where to start in trying to suggest things. She ahs recently registered on a self help forum (like this one actually, but for PCOS (verity I think its called)).

I don't know what to do for the best.

Support her on it more, become more "mean"*, or just say F*** it and live a crappy sex life (although frequency is the problem, I must stress, that quality is definately not when she does decide to be in the mood)...


* one thing I was seriously considering was buying my "used to be" monthly mens magazine (FHM if you guys know of it), to which was "one" of the many jellous traits she showed early in our relationship and I gave it up. And I thought it may give her a "kick up the arse" so to speak, and if I get no reaction at all, well, that to me means she has become TOO comfortable.


My head is spinning


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

827Aug said:


> Perhaps I can be of help with this one. I've had PCOS a very long time and have learned how to successfully manage the problem. In fact, the doctors basically allow me to mange my own medication dosages now. Just remember a woman with PCOS can be a good thing guys. The condition makes us produce too much testosterone which equals higher sex drive. But the whole PCOS condition is a individual balancing act.
> 
> Your wife needs to find a competent endocrinologist--most doctors don't have a clue how to manage the condition. Some people can mange the problem by diet alone--getting rid of sugars and reducing carbohydrates. Others, like myself, rely on metformin and Aldactone. The metformin makes the body use insulin while the Aldactone removes testosterone. When properly done, the results are amazing!
> 
> Hope your wife can get help....and you become a happy man.


I agree with this. I've known plenty of women with PCOS who have high sex drives. There are solutions. Diet alone might works but yes many need meds.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Meds...

(not suggesting anything here)

but, I think one of the problems are that she doesn't seem to have found (up to now) a real DR who know's what the hell he is on about with this. Closest was quite a way from us, but in the end we lost trust in him because from one visit to the next he couldn't remember what we were trying to achieve, so we went down the manage ourselves route. (maybe a mistake this, IDK)

Another one, is that I tink she is worried about the future (ie possible eventual diabities) and the use of metfomine (This is the one I am led to believe can really cause people to errr, "baloon" in size). SHe has always prided herself on her figure, and to say she has had 2 kids, recently diet wise, she has tried to be "happy in herself" by losign the odd few pound. She needn't bother, she looks absolutely fantastic, so I think this also plays on her mind.

I really think I ought to push the subject a little more in terms of trying to find another endocrinologist


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## surfergirl (Jan 27, 2011)

Neil said:


> I really think I ought to push the subject a little more in terms of trying to find another endocrinologist


I think you ought to as well. Trying the do-it-yourself thing is great f it works but maybe she just needs a little extra guidance from a professional. Who knows, the Endo may not even put her on medication straight up.

Explain to your wife that worrying about the future appearance of diabetes is a total waste of time and good energy - if it's going to happen it will happen. Better she start taking medication now if she needs it and possibly stave off the onset a little longer. I was on Metformin and never put weight on - my doc told me the only reason some people put weight on while on the medication is because they start to feel better and eat more - the same with Insulin.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Neil said:


> Meds...
> 
> (not suggesting anything here)
> 
> but, I think one of the problems are that she doesn't seem to have found (up to now) a real DR who know's what the hell he is on about with this. Closest was quite a way from us, but in the end we lost trust in him because from one visit to the next he couldn't remember what we were trying to achieve, so we went down the manage ourselves route. (maybe a mistake this, IDK)


No, most doctors are clueless on this condition. Most want to put the woman on birth control pills and give antidepressants. That's not correct either. She needs to see an endocrinologist! We have one of the nation's top endocrinologist in our region. Since I owned a pharmacy I got to see a lot of his success stories. 




Neil said:


> Another one, is that I tink she is worried about the future (ie possible eventual diabities) and the use of metfomine (This is the one I am led to believe can really cause people to errr, "baloon" in size). SHe has always prided herself on her figure, and to say she has had 2 kids, recently diet wise, she has tried to be "happy in herself" by losign the odd few pound. She needn't bother, she looks absolutely fantastic, so I think this also plays on her mind.


Unfortunately most people with PCOS will end up with diabetes unless they manage their condition. The endocrinologist told me that all women with PCOS will have gestational diabetes when pregnant. I did have gestational diabetes. However, at age 47 I'm still free from diabetes. Actually people on metformin tend to lose weight because insulin is being better utilized.

Most people with PCOS are overweight though. One of our PCOS patients years ago was a 16 year old girl. She was at least 60 pounds overweight, had bad acme, the dark creases on the neck, and way too much body hair. She saw that endocrinologist (I referred to above). The transformation was phenomenal. She was a beauty queen by the following year and went on to represent our county at regional competition.

Once the hormones are balanced by using diet/exercise and/or medications your wife should have more energy and increased sexual drive.


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Yeah, I'd ride this one out as long as she's loving and supportive. I mean, it's not like she's testing you out in public, right?

Don't forget to be there for her, though! I hope she's better soon.


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

My suggestions are to 

1. Stop talking about it. She knows you need more sex. Do not talk about it anymore.

2. Change your approach to sex. Giving her soft, loving cuddles will not produce sexual desire (generally) it will produce feelings of comfort and induce sleep (generally). There are lots and lots of tips in the sex section of the board that you may find helpful.

*Agressive does not mean demanding sex and getting angry about her not wanting it. Aggressive is knowing what you want and producing the environment necessary to getting it. Sexual aggression should not come from a place of anger or frustration.

3. Take a shower together at least once a week where she can lather you up and give you a hj. If she wants you to do her then that is great, too! But, if she really has a low drive but is still attracted and in love with you she will be more than happy to take care of you once a week in the shower.

4. Do not ask if you can have sex. Try really, really hard to never ask for sex again. If you want you can ask "would you like top or bottom tonight?" or "oral or missionary?" The default is that there will be sex.

5. Spice things up...try new positions and maybe some toys.

6. Play and have fun with her. Make her laugh! Chase, tickle, wrestle, tease, flirt, sext. Do not underestimate the importance of laughter.

There are lots of chick flicks that show exactly how a guy should act if he wants to get laid. I just watched Burlesque yesterday and it has a fine example. The Back Up Plan has a great example in the first date scene of how to build attraction. He touches her neck from behind, they have a water fight, candle light pizza dinner....



> I came to a point last night, that we had a graet day, she stated she was full of energy and I honestly felt last night we could "get going". It didn't, I was very frustrated.


Can you pinpoint why sex didn't happen? Did you expect her to initiate? Did you verbally ask rather than just initiating it? Did you use back rubs and soft cuddles which led to sleep rather than sex?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I also have PCOS, being diagnosed back in 2003.

It does involve an increase in testosterone levels, so I'm unsure why her sex drive is low due to PCOS. This IS NOT a typical or listed symptom of PCOS.

Normal side effects of PCOS are:

- Weight gain
- Abonormal menstrul cycles
- Abnormal hair growth or loss
- Fatigue (caused by IR - insulin resistance)
- Male patterned baldness on the scalp
- High blood pressure
- Infertility
- Depression
- Breathing problems (linked to the weight gain and IR)

She needs a complete work-up by an endo who can properly diagnose and start her on the typical meds - which include metformin (glucophage). It will make a huge difference in how she looks and feels overall after she has started and been on treatment for a month or so - it did me.

A regular family doctor WILL be clueless about his issue as they are not trained in the discipline. A lot of OBGYNs aren't either. An endo, with the symptoms, along with blood work, etc., will be able to finalize a diagnoses. Some doctors believe you cannot have PCOS without cystic ovaries and that is not true either. So only an endo can diagnose the issues properly.

But I'm really confused about the low libido issue - not a typical PCOS symptom at all - her low libido could be caused by something else and not the PCOS. Maybe the fatigue associated with it could be a contributing factor - but her drive - this is not a typical symptom for PCOS.

Good luck!


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> It does involve an increase in testosterone levels, so I'm unsure why her sex drive is low due to PCOS. This IS NOT a typical or listed symptom of PCOS.


It's usually due to the fatigue (& sometimes the mental condition) which accompanies insulin resistance. And in older women some of the other hormones will be off as well. As I said a very competent endocrinologist can fix the problem.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

ShuttleDIK said:


> Yeah, I'd ride this one out as long as she's loving and supportive. I mean, it's not like she's testing you out in public, right?
> 
> Don't forget to be there for her, though! I hope she's better soon.


No their is no testing in public.

I would be seriously worried if that were the case, but it isn't


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

827Aug said:


> It's usually due to the fatigue (& sometimes the mental condition) which accompanies insulin resistance. And in older women some of the other hormones will be off as well. As I said a very competent endocrinologist can fix the problem.


Thanks for that, I do know its hit and miss, but think you have hit on something their


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Right...

The last couple of days and a bit more info (a few details I really ought to have put).... This will be long...

I have come to some conclusions and some actions I am going to put in place. Comments are appreciated.

The other night where I was frustrated. Good day all round, went to bet after our supper (yes it didn't really agree with either of us which is about to come obvious).

Get in bed, I was "Ragingly up for it", she was not giving any signals. I went for it (not said anything or asked etc). She didn't reject (yet), she even did her usual "Foot stroking" (ie lightly rubbing hers on mine) as we (i thought) warmed up. After a little while, she slowed down, stopped and sat upright "I feel sick" and that was it. Yes I was extremely offended here, and it could have been handled better (on both parts).

Anyways, I rolled over, ignored her and went to sleep. She did the same.

Next morning, I didn't say a word, made the drinks for us all, said bye and left. (no kisses, no ackowleding her at all). and went to work.

I was expecting a book delivered today (sounds like an excuse) and so needed to contact her to see if it had arrived (I had intended not contacting at all). She didn't answer, but sent a text 2 hours later saying sorry she didn't hear the phone she had taken the kids into town. I didn't repond.

I went home, she had made some lunch, I ignored her. Went straight outside, cut the grass. Ate my tea. She told me she had picked me some new trousers whilst in town, I looked at them and thanked her for them, picked up my keys and went to the allotment and planted some seeds and watered what needed to be done.

Came home, continued to ignore her. She stated she was going to nip to friends to do an exchange of "easter eggs". So i responded. Why don't we all go and then the kids may be asleep by the time we return. She though it was a reasonable idea. So we did, I only responded to questions she asked regarding driving.

Came home, put the kids to bed, and I went and took a bath without saying anything. Came downstairs, grabbed the book that had been delivered and began to read it. She put some programmes on the TV. She made little bits of smalltalk (not much) and I just responded as required. I made no attempt to engage anything.

She then asked me to have a look at the DVD recorder as it stopped working that morning. I responded saying, make a drink whilst I look at it and i'll see what I can do. She made the drinks and stated I am going to bed, are you coming? I said I will come up when I have finished looking at this.

Went to bed. Still angry and frustrated, I remembered an earlier post about giving a choice of "activity" but kept the focus on its either this or that. (the choice, was a HJ or to lay on your stomach while I "play" with her ass) She stated the second. So I did, and went for it anyway without asking becasue I was fed up. She didn't refuse, and neither did she really participate.

This morning. Got up, she was "exhausted" (I could see that). I made the drinks, dressed one of the kids (making it clear she could do the other). She began snapping at the kids and I corrected her saying, its not their fault they are giddy, and its not fair to snap at them, they don't understand why you tired. "But I am tired". I told her I understand. PCOS AND Crohns have the same symptom... "Fatigue". So I understand. She slightly rolled her eyes as if to say, I don't think you get it. So I stated that I knew more about PCOS than she thinks I know.

As I was about to leave, one of the kids, came to gave me a kiss, and I stated to everyone, that no one deserved a kiss this morning for the moods everyone is in.

She reacted (and yes, I pushed a button on purpose here) and said it was me who was in the mood all day yesterday. So I told her straight. You know exactly why I was in a mood yesterday after being so callously and crulely rejected the night before. "Yes, but I was genuinely feeling sick". I responded, maybe so, but their are better ways to reject me than doing what you did.

I left for work, no kisses but just a simple bye everyone.

And thats where I am.

My thoughts, connecting everything together. 

a) exhaustion and depression moods are playing here on her with the PCOS
b) I have not kept the "Man up and nice guy reference" going. (Yes I have put my foot down, but somehow the last few days/couple of weeks (See below) have left the Happy go Lucky side/Fun Part of me out - Mistake)
c)The PCOS thoughts I really had are a red herring, yes, it doesn't help, but I firmly believe I have gotten off track with manning up.
d) she (even though she probably didn't feel like it) let me have my wicked way because she knew how frustrated I was.
e) Yes I have been a little bit of a selfish ass, but so what, I have made so many changes the last few months, whilst she continues to not "make the effort" on my needs.

as per (B), this all started when It was my birthday. I got presents yes, from her and the kids and a card from the kids. But no Card from her (The first time EVER). It offended me. My sister did the opposite, a Card, but no gift. I have been angry ever since, and to the point where I am going to do the same on their birthday's (HELP HERE, 2 wrongs don't make a right does it?)

So what am I going to do?

1) re-establish the proper "man up game", continue with the "boundries", she knows full well where they are now
2) re-establish the happy fun side of me (whilst I have made excuses why I dropped this, I shouldn't have, but I am sure people will understand why)
3) Suggest she finds another "Endo" and we will work together on it
4) continue reading the book and setting limits with the children and acting on it, giving her advice and everyone else on what I expect to be put in place.
5) continue with the helping of chores as I have really got stuck into this the last few months.
6), not sure about this one, advice appreciated. Should I say I don't understand why her libido is low, as PCOS normally INCREASES it (maybe I am so unlucky that I just have one of the lower drive ones).
7) again, not sure about this one, I have thought about "accidently" leaving the PC on linking to here so she gets to see how I actually am feeling. Good move or bad?
8) introduce the "thermometer", and lower my "touchiness", "feeliness" adn ILY's to match hers, and ONLY increse it when she does the same. So she sets the pace
9) Not sure on this one, do I appologise for my "arsey" behaviour the last couple of weeks, or just leave it

THOUGHTS?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

827Aug said:


> It's usually due to the fatigue (& sometimes the mental condition) which accompanies insulin resistance. And in older women some of the other hormones will be off as well. As I said a very competent endocrinologist can fix the problem.


Can't disagree with it possibly being a contributing factor.

I am older and also have PCOS and it has not affected my drive. I realize that things affect everyone differently. 

My point was - I believe there's more involved here than just PCOS and PCOS might be being used as an "excuse" for other issues.

Maybe, maybe not - worth looking at though.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Neil said:


> Right...
> 
> The last couple of days and a bit more info (a few details I really ought to have put).... This will be long...
> 
> ...


My thoughts, for what they're worth:

- Yes, fatigue is a contributing factor and a big one for PCOS sufferers. Is she on medication for her PCOS, if so and it's being taken properly, the fatigue should have lifted within in a few weeks.
- I think she may be using PCOS to justify her behavior (or lack therefore), or maybe using it as a crutch.
- I think her low drive may be contributable to other factors (lack of desire), etc., that may have nothing to do with PCOS - you need to figure this out.
- I wouldn't apologize for anything - doesn't sound like her behavior has been up to par either. 
- Two wrongs don't make a right. Don't stoop to her level and change your behavior to mask hers. YOU behave as you normally do, if she wants to be petty and act like a child, let her, doesn't mean you have to.

Excuses are just that - excuses. If she is not too tired to participate in activities that make her happy, then she's not too tired to take care of her husband.

We make the time and take effort to take care of those things that are important to US, regardless of the obstacles. This should apply to taking care of our loved ones also.

From what "you" have told us here, she is not focused on taking care of her husband and meeting his needs.

Time to confront her on that. While you can be understanding and supportive of her medical condition, it does not give her carte blanche to take it out on you.

I need to practice what I preach sometimes and I'm working on it. I have a challenging medical situation in my own home that has made me feel like a stranger in it. I know how you feel - but you either need to take some type of action or learn to live with it.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Time to confront her on that. While you can be understanding and supportive of her medical condition, it does not give her carte blanche to take it out on you.


And thats where I am right NOW.

At home, already gave her a "third degree" if you like on the telephone. I am at home now, she is on the couch having a nap whilst the kids are out.

She is then going to get on here, and read my last 4 months.

The she will be invited to give her side if she feels like it.

So, you may get to know something (including me) in the next hour or so!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Neil said:


> And thats where I am right NOW.
> 
> At home, already gave her a "third degree" if you like on the telephone. I am at home now, she is on the couch having a nap whilst the kids are out.
> 
> ...


When she reads all of your posts, it will be a great opportunity to practice tight emotional control.

And, I'm not kidding.

Been there.


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## abbylee (Apr 20, 2011)

As the woman in this position, I feel the same way. Pissed off when ignored or just rejected. I have health issues, he does not. I have a very high libido he does not. So that means that we do are not intimate very often. He blames me. How that works I do not know, I have tried the whole lingerie, toys, trick, showers, everything that has been suggested on all of these posts.... He is just not there in that capacity.... Not interested, if I go to bed early he stays up to watch the news, if I am busy doing something he goes to bed early. Yes I have talked to another man online and that was quite a thrill, used that to spice things up for awhile but even that is over because I will not go past the text phase... I am stuck, men think they are the only ones who never get satisfied in the bedroom well think again, there are plenty of us women who are dying because our husbands are just not interested. By the way we are longterm (20 years) married and I am not overweight at all, very fit, and a sahm.... So its not like he can say she is too fat or i just am not into her, I look as good now as I did when we married... What to do right..


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Just a quick update as I know I haven't been around for a while...

Conrad, I didn't need to practice emotional control, I made her sit and read it was was basically emotionless.

I really hit a point where I couldn't care less.

So what happened from here...

She read it all (and all of it too). I asked one question after it.

Does this paint an accurate picture of the last 4 months, she agreed. (So at least you can all rest in the knowledge I haven't been biased). I also said that I was serious when I said I wasn't going to put up with her being like this and I would call it quits pretty soon.

I left the house to help my dad whilst my mother turned up at extactly the same time. Anyway, when I came home, she came to me and put her arms around me and basically gave me a kiss and said she loved me. I was a bit reserved, it was going to take a lot more than this to convince me.

I went out Friday night and had a few drinks with my dad, and for the first time admitted to my dad, "d'ya know, I don't know if I can actually be bothered with all this"

Over the weekend we went to a friends BBQ and things went well. She was better and we had a laugh. Until about 4am in the morning. A lot of the conversation went sexual and we came home with some unopened "outfits" as a gift from their friends (they got a brief update through the evening, and thought it may help) She was giddy about them. So I thought it may be fun when we got home. Completely the opposite, she wanted to listen to music instead. So I went to bed.

The next couple of days and I have a "flare up" of my crohns disease and was pretty much "useless" and in pain to do anything.

This fired me up as I got no sympathy from her like she got when she was ill (ie being able to spend the entire day in bed whilst I dealt with the kids etc). So I ended up calling her bluff...

Their is a suitcase upstairs, and you have a choice. Either your with "us" and make the effort, or I am going to pack it for you (and yes, I was deadly serious) and This is what finally broke the camels back. (so yes, as the man up thread and the fitness tests quite clearly state from conrad's post "But, first, you simply must be right with yourself and be able to conquer your fear. Conquer your fear of losing. And, when I mean losing, I mean losing her." I had hit that point, because if she went and packed, it wouldn't have hurt, I had hit the point of having enough)...

She finally started "talking". And the upshot is:

1) I have been perfectly "useful" around the house, so that wasn't it
2) I have changed my behaviours and she was happy with that

So, basically "its not me"...

She feels so low bacause of her body, the PCOS and the constant hassle with the kids

Basically, her PCOS is making her too lathargic and depressed to try and make effort with me, and she admitted she doesn't blame me for "throwing her out"...

Right, she admits her depression (something I was coming to the conclusion of) but felt until I get something from her, I couldn't help.

So she has agreed that she/we can't manage her condition on her own and we shoudl seek to find a new endocrineologyst (sp)

She also felt she couldn't talk to me as open as she would like to (so I also have some work to do here to try and create that environment where she doesn't feel lectured (I can see how she has come to that))

She still hates her body (Again down to PCOS)

She is generally knackered (Again down to PCOS)

So we have something to work on.

She also since reading my 4 months has made more effort (not much to begin with) but I think my ultimatum made her realise I was deadly serious, and she has made more effort than she has had in months (ILY's, cuddles, touch feely and yes Sex (already had my next 4 weeks quota based on the last few weeks)) but again I am the err of caution, its going to take more than a couple of days for me to accept the effort will continue, but she also seemed to be more relaxed, happy and making so much effort for me.

So I think the "shock and aww" factor of saying your out if you don't shape up, along with reading everyone's replies (especially being called a spoilt little child by a poster on here) and me engaging with helping her on the PCOS has given her the "rocket" she needs.

So, lets see how we go...

Oh, in that PCOS referal, she felt she was so down and fed up trying to explain things to doctors she didn't know if she was strong enough to "do it all again". So, I offered to do it for her and that I would be their every step of the way until we got someone/medication that worked (so long as I wasn't brushed to oneside)...

I feel a little better now (and she clearly does), but I have really burned myself out this last 4 months and she knows it, so maybe we can be on the up from now on


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Neil,

Stay the course brother.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Just a slight update...

We went away for a few days, things ok. And then we came home. All the effort she made had gone, it was back to square one.

This weekend, I told her to leave. I took the kids out and left her on her own.

Talked to her dad, told him I had had enough and if he couldn't get to the bottom of anything that it was time to call it a day. At some point she left the house to her parents...

How guilty do I feel.... VERY.

Seems I have hit the nail on the head previously, she started texting me wanting to know if she could come home, and I basically said if she came home in the same mood then no, if she came home to make some effort, then she would be welcome.

Well, she has made so much effort (and in the bedroom too) I actually went to bed last night "not wanting any". (this isn't me).

I had taken them time to look into depression, and it desribed her to a T, and so I asked her to read the article and to tell me how many "boxes she felt she ticked". EVERY SINGLE ONE (apart from self harm and suicidle thoughts)...

She has agreed that she thinks this is whats causing everything and finally acknowledged that she would like professional help.

Asked me to make the appointment for her and to accompany her to the appointment.

Seems like I really need to swallow a lot of pride and become mr patient and understanding.

This is going to be a long ride

PS, I am not making up an excuse to lose Man Up status, but I am scared of being "dragged down" into this illness too.

but these last few weeks have certainly got me manned up and protective of myself, I just need to somehow help her through this, but am not sure how to.

We have an appointment on Thursday morning with the doctor


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Good for you Neil, i am glad you are atleast making progress, its a shame you both had to go through so much pain just to get to where you are at.

I am where you are at, just without the disease aspects. My wife just has a low libido... and that's it. Nothing more ... nothing left. I feel VERY resentful, to the point where the first time last night as i sit there stewing... i contimplated an affair. I have never allowed myself to "go there" in my thoughts before. But this is where i am at right now. The last time we had sex was almost 2 full weeks ago... if i don't initiate it... it won't happen at all. I take her non interest in self as a personal gunshot to my self esteem. It doesn't make sense to talk about it, because we've talked it about for years. I would be pure INSANE if the rules were reversed, to not take care of my wife. I'm going to put one more strong effort into making this work, and if it doesn't... i may have to consider leaving. As far as i know we hafe 1 life on this planet, and i don't think i am asking alot to make love to the woman i agreed to spend the rest of my life with 2-3 times is asking too much.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

WOW, just WOW.

When I thought depression was something that was playing the part, I wasn't expecting this. our Doctor thinks she has BiPolar Disorder...

I am Stunned, but reading up on it since then, it explains her completely.

We are both in a state of shock, but can take some positives out of this namely:

*We can see how this has been affecting us over the last 10 years
*Now we have sonmething to work with we will work with it
*We both felt both happy and gutted at this, happy that we now know whats behind all this, but sad that we now have something else to "cope with"...


Oh, and the bedroom, I have registered 4 out of 6 days. 

She is definately making the effort on "us", but their are things we now need to do.

Read and understand the condition
Self help guides to learn "triggers"
Diaries to note patterns etc

The doctor gave heart in that she isn't on the extreme scale of this disorder, but felt that the 3 actions above would illiminate most of it.

A review after 3 or 4 weeks and if we haven't made progress on "current issues" he may look to use medication and possible psychologists...

Oh, and my partner actually said, so now you don't need to use that website to find out whats wrong, its me and has been all along.

Of course, I can't do that, I also need to unserstand that I am probably at some point a cause on the "triggers", and we need to work out that part, but one thing, I can rest that I am not the sole cause of our issues and not to take it personally when she has her "down" episodes...

A different rollercoaster on its way, but at least we know what that ride is likely to entail and know it is going to have quite a few ups and downs (until we can control/manage it).

Can I say a big thankyou to everyone who has contributed to me since christmas, I don't think I could have got through this without the excellent guidance, but more importantly the "man up" guides and advice has placed me in a far better position to work with this illness with my partner.

I will support her as much as is possible 


I will still stick around, if not to just update myself on other peoples "journey's"

I wish everyone all the success they deserve


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

The only problem with all of that is PCOS causes depression and mood swings. So, taking medications for that is treating a symptom and not a cause. Unfortunately that's how our medical system now works. I'm glad I no longer work in the medical field for that very reason.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

absolutely,

This is going to be in the review, as he is very happy to refer her to an endocrineolgist (sp?), but he felt their was a more urgent need to try and help the depresssion (bipolar) 1st, rather than not do anything and wait for it to be possibly dealt with by the PCOS endoc...

I fully accept his reasoning, and so does my partner, I forced the issue because I didn't know which we should try and tackle first ourselves, but I also made sure that PCOS wasn't "ignored" whilst he dealt with the "depression" side of it...

I fully expect in the coming weeks that a referal for the PCOS will still be made

I feel so much for my partner, having PCOS is one thing, but adding possible BiPolar to it, she must really be feeling that she has done some pretty crap things in a previous life


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm glad you guys will get the underlying cause (PCOS) treated. Also, I hope your wife will be able to get off of the mental drugs. I'm just not a fan of them. I've seen far more damage than good come from their use. I've got my own theories there.....okay, I will zip up my flame suit and hush now.


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## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

As a woman who suffered from PCOS I can tell you it took some serious work on my part to "feel like" having sex. 

I forced myself mostly. Along with PCOS came endometriosis which made it unbearably painful to orgasm. 

Long story short I ended up getting one ovary(the one that was most damaged with cysts)removed along with uterus,cervix and tubes.

Life has NOT been BETTER since that surgery. I still have symptoms of PCOS due to my other ovary but it isn't nearly as bad as it used to be and my sex drive is amazing now.


not saying your wife should take such a drastic route but just trying to show there is light at the end of that PCOS tunnel. My mind always was willing to have sex...my body was the stubborn one.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

surfergirl said:


> Explain to your wife that worrying about the future appearance of diabetes is a total waste of time and good energy - if it's going to happen it will happen. Better she start taking medication now if she needs it and possibly stave off the onset a little longer. I was on Metformin and never put weight on - my doc told me the only reason some people put weight on while on the medication is because they start to feel better and eat more - the same with Insulin.


Diabetes is a very serious disease. It will kill you one way or another. With it comes failure of organs, cancer, coma, kidney failure, liver failure, heart disease. There are several little hidden problems that will get you fast too. 
Get help now! Don't worry about the weight that is nothing compared to the disease.
For one thing what she has going on medically will squash her sexual appitite. She doesn't feel good. She hurts, but you are still getting it once a week. 
Lets look at it differently. Ask her. What can I do to make you more comfortable? Total attention on her and keep the thought of getting a treat out of your mind! If it means rubbing her back, her legs, what ever, all night then show that you get where she is. Then maybe the next night she will feel better and more happy. Cuddle her every night, don't push it.


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## Neil (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks for the support.

I am fully aware of all the comlications, however, everything she has CAN be managed. This is where I am taking heart from.

Its been a rollercoaster of 10 years, and I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel knowing whats been going on all these years.

I am taking it all in, and I think this is a little too much for her to comprehend at the moment, but she is making on eor two comments that I can see it's slowly all beginning to sink in for her too.

The thing is, I will not let anyone push us into treating "symptoms", I will ensure we go right to the root cause of all this with the PCOS.

I have been guilty of letting this get to me too much and it has consumed me the last couple of days, which is not good, I will ensure we can get the right support network in place, and know that whilst we will endure many ups and downs, I am convinced if we can get the right people involved to manage the PCOS, everything else will fall into place.

I feel much better this morning after taking an early nights sleep, she is getting the understanding and help from me she needs (so she says) and her whole demeanor is more positive. Still I can't beat this for her, and she needs to understand and help herself during all this too.

I can't let this whole thing consume me like I have the last few days, something we spoke about last night...

But, a lot of it will depend on getting the right person to treat the underlying cause, and this is something I cannot let slip, otherwise we will never get this under control...

Hopefully we can get her back to normal (sounds so harsh, but true)


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I really hope you can find someone who can properly treat your wife's condition. That was a nightmare for me back in the 90s. I was so sick and every doctor thought I was a nut case (because every lab test came back normal). I lost all of my hair, the lining in my mouth was gone, the joint pain was horrendous, my skin hurt to the touch, the headaches were continuous, the nausea was ever present, wounds wouldn't heal, and I stayed sick with a cold year round. When I wasn't angry, I was crying--horrible mood swings. The worst part is the anxiety. Words can't even express how bad I really felt. Every doctor I saw wanted to treat each little symptom. Several even diagnosed me with fibromyalgia. Each time they treated for an individual symptom, another problem emerged or another symptom got worse.

Finally, I saw an endocrinologist that made the proper diagnosis. The only problem is that he was still in the dark ages. He prescribed birth control pills. My insulin resistance was so far out of control the birth control pills did nothing but aggravate my condition.

The only thing which saved me was the fact my estranged husband and I owned a pharmacy. The estranged husband did a lot of research. In addition, we started watching what a regional endocrinologist was doing with a few of our patients. Armed with that knowledge, we began self-treatment. My OB/GYN was so impressed with the results, she began treating other patients similarly. It was like being freed from a prison. I felt like a human being again and had a life. Had it not been for my resources, I would still be very sick and probably still going from doctor to doctor.......or I would have been dead by now.

I really know most of the battle with this condition is finding someone compent to treat the condition. And it is so frustrating! Insist on treating the condition, or your wife will forever be treating symptoms.


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