# Men and their emotions



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dh had to leave for work again yesterday. I felt sad and called him later in the day.

He never seems sad when he leaves, just very matter of fact and cheerful about his job and what he needs to do.

To me, this translates into: he just is not as into me as I am into him.

He called me back (had been in a cell phone dead zone) and was surprised to hear I was upset, and that I thought he just did not care very much about being away. He told me he did not feel that way at all.

He said that while it is true that he does not _express_ his feelings, it is not that he does not _have_ feelings. He assured me he _does_ have feelings.

I went to talk to my neighbors about this, and they said this is true, that men often have feelings, but do not show them, or not in the same way women do.

Has this been your experience, too, that you have interpreted a lack of expression for a lack of feeling? Or for men, that your wife misinterpreted your lack of expression?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I went to talk to my neighbors about this, and they said this is true, that men often have feelings, but do not show them, or not in the same way women do.
> 
> Has this been your experience, too, that you have interpreted a lack of expression for a lack of feeling? Or for men, that your wife misinterpreted your lack of expression?


You know why this is, it's his temperament ...isn't he the INTJ?...He is called *MOST INDEPENDENT* out of these 16....










This article's opening line calls them >> INTJ personality and emotions  " Idealistic visionaries, unemotional robots, brilliant strategists, socially awkward geeks, fearsome debaters"....would you say this article describes your husband Jld -as far as emotions go??



> *jld said:* "*He said that while it is true that he does not express his feelings, it is not that he does not have feelings. He assured me he does have feelings*."


This part of the article sums up a little of that -your feeling he is detached...


> That being said, emotions will always influence the decisions that the INTJ is making, at least to some extent – it is impossible to separate the two, even though most people with the INTJ personality type try hard to make decisions and solve problems without involving their feelings. How we process is also how we feel, and how we feel is also how we process – this applies to INTJs as well.
> 
> However, people with this personality type find it quite easy to deal with those emotions internally, without exposing them to the outside world, and this is why they may radiate that aura of logic and detachment.
> 
> So, to summarize – INTJ personalities can be very sensitive and have very deep feelings. Even though these emotions will be shielded from the public view by the dominant Thinking (T) trait and will (usually) not be the deciding factor in the INTJ decision-making process, this does not mean that INTJs should be seen as, or should aspire to be, cold-blooded and insensitive geniuses living by the mantra that emotions are for the weak. This is not the case and is not going to happen.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

He is INTP.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I don't think we're all the same, but I think there is a lot of pressure on men to hide or even suppress their emotions. Sometimes we're not as "in touch" with them, and sometimes we just don't express them.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I don't think we're all the same, but I think there is a lot of pressure on men to hide or even suppress their emotions. Sometimes we're not as "in touch" with them, and sometimes we just don't express them.


 I don't think it comes from pressure from the outside for dh. I think he is just naturally introverted.

I have to be careful not to interpret him according to how I would react, I think. And I am really pressing him to be transparent with me. It helps me understand him better, instead of guessing and feeling hurt by what seems like lack of interest on his part (and that feels like lack of caring to me).


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks for putting that INTJ thing out there, SA. Dd18 is INTJ. I am enjoying reading it.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

Hi jld, I can't speak for all men but my gf frequently expresses those same misgivings and it pains me that my reluctance to express myself 'emotionally' might cause her to question my affection for her.

I was always a very tactile and expressive (read: passionate) guy before I engaged in a string of destructive, failed relationships which ultimately culminated in a prolonged period of romantic abstinence and my subsequent discovery of this emancipatory discussion board.

The 'man up' philosophy struck a cord and inspired me to reassess my approach to interpersonal expression. My gf clearly construes my reluctance to display my feelings as evidence that I remain guarded against emotional betrayal.

Whilst that may be a contributing factor, I don't think it's the primary motivation. Mainly, I just find that restraining myself results in far less emotional instability. Of course, I'm probably too analytical where other 'alpha' males just behave that way instinctively.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Indeed, I'm INTJ, and have always tended to not show much emotion. I've learned to express it more and more over time now that I'm in a great relationship, but many NT's never open up much. I definitely FEEL the emotions, though.

NT's are also very consistent in their love and loyalty, and if they've once said they love you, they continue to love you even if it goes unsaid. They'll let you know if/when anything changes. It may not be what you want, but it is how they feel, and they will show it in ways other than verbal.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

That is really sweet, Applejuice, about how it pains you that your girlfriend questions your affection. And I am sure you try to reassure her.

I am really pressing dh to be transparent these days, to just really feel his feelings and act on them.

He is by nature not very emotional, or at least does not take things personally. I am totally emotional and hypersensitive, so I guess we balance each other out. But there sure can be misunderstandings along the way. And then I have meltdowns from the misunderstandings.

We just need more transparent communication, I think.

And he is French, so there are cultural differences at play, too.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

DH tries to not make a big deal out of goodbyes bc he knows goodbyes trigger me. 

Perhaps he's trying to keep it light to avoid upsetting you.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Man with emotions? Ha! All you need to know to deal with men is the 3 H's

Horny, Hungry and Hibernation

If he's not horny, he's hungry and if not any of those he's probably tired. ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Indeed, I'm INTJ, and have always tended to not show much emotion. I've learned to express it more and more over time now that I'm in a great relationship, but many NT's never open up much. I definitely FEEL the emotions, though.
> 
> *NT's are also very consistent in their love and loyalty, *and if they've once said they love you, they continue to love you even if it goes unsaid. They'll let you know if/when anything changes. *It may not be what you want, but it is how they feel, and they will show it in ways other than verbal.*


Very true. I love this about NTs. 

I am an NF, and I have to try to not misinterpret him.

And he truly is an acts of service guy, and I take those acts for granted.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

Some men just are like this. They have a different love language then women do. For them doing something for you means saying "I love you". My husband is like this. He is an ISTJ by the way. I have started a thread about them.

Women are more likely to be the E-X-F-X type and men are more likely to be the I-X-T-X type.

I wonder why nature is so funny, why are men and women such a bad fit for one another?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Men here have shared a tremendous amount of information which they find very beneficial. It works.

However ... by 'putting it out there', it also flat out tends to p!ss women off.

There is a poster here who manages his marriage very wisely. I have found his input to be very, very, useful. Solid marriage, over 20 years.

Basically he said, "Love her just a little less than she wants to be loved."

To a woman this may sound cruel. To me, it sounds like a perfect formula to maintain and build upon attraction.


We tend to see a very familiar refrain 'round these parts, that women want a sensitive, emotionally available man who isn't afraid to express himself. And this is true. But there is a corollary; they don't want him to be that way all of the time.

A man needs to be emotionally available, vulnerable, expressive enough to build and maintain an intimate bond.

Woman I'm seeing now needs a tremendous amount of touch points. I admired that she expressed not getting them is a deal-breaker for her, as she was in a 20 year marriage with a husband who chose to completely and utterly emotionally isolate himself from her and their children.

I struggled with this at first, as in my previous relationship we sometimes literally went a day or two without talking, or texting, and I was good with that too.

So ... I give the lady what she wants. Consequently, she wants me.

I used to be FAR more expressive than I am now. I haven't closed myself off, I've simply become more practical or economical with what or how I express myself.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> DH tries to not make a big deal out of goodbyes bc he knows goodbyes trigger me.
> 
> Perhaps he's trying to keep it light to avoid upsetting you.


I don't get that feeling, but I will ask.

I think it is more acceptance of how things are, and a reflection of his enthusiasm for his job. He really loves his job.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Every single time I have taken the Meyers Briggs, I've tested out as ENFP.

I was the expressive one in my marriage.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> Man with emotions? Ha! All you need to know to deal with men is the 3 H's
> 
> Horny, Hungry and Hibernation
> 
> ...


Yeah, but I want something out of the relationship, too, Cloaked. I want to feel like he is as into me as I am into him. 

But I think I am just looking at it the wrong way, looking through my eyes instead of his.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

I had to think of that guy I met. I talked with him about men and women and he said if he is confused or whatever he does not tell his girlfriend because she might get stressed.

Some men seem to think that their feelings are "contagious". Women however notice if their guy is stressed because he acts different. If he is confused and they can not tell the reason they will be far more stressed than they will be if the understand why he is confused.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Every single time I have taken the Meyers Briggs, I've tested out as ENFP.
> 
> I was the expressive one in my marriage.


Hey, I am an ENFP. *shakes hand*


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

I cannot speak for all men but I know I am reluctant to show negative emotions to those I love. ( I struggled with anger management as a younger man).

I do not know what "personality type" the chart / test would put me in but I am very much a:

"best foot forward", "glass half full" "positive mental attitude" sort of person.

OP, When you asked your husband how he felt / was he told you honestly, that should be all you need.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You know, Deejo, I know that dh does not do this on purpose (love her less than she wants to be loved). He was genuinely surprised by some of the things I expressed on that Kink thread. He did not know I felt the things I did, and he was stunned that I felt unsure of his desire.

I think we need to keep working on more transparent communication. I don't expect to get everything I want in marriage, but I don't want to sit around crying because of misinterpretation, either.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

jld said:


> Yeah, but I want something out of the relationship, too, Cloaked. I want to feel like he is as into me as I am into him.
> 
> But I think I am just looking at it the wrong way, looking through my eyes instead of his.


I meant that as a joke. I'll go back and put a ;-) in the comment. 

I don't know how to help the situation. 
I used to love my parents dearly. My dad had an affair next thing I know my dad is gone as well as my mom in order to provide for us. The next thing I open up my heart to are some pets. They died before their time. So I learned as a child everything I love either leaves me or dies. I closed off. It was a protective shell. Really hard to break.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

Wiltshireman said:


> I cannot speak for all men but I know I am reluctant to show negative emotions to those I love. ( I struggled with anger management as a younger man).
> 
> I do not know what "personality type" the chart / test would put me in but I am very much a:
> 
> ...


If you want to find out about your personality type do this test: Personality test based on C. Jung and I. Briggs Myers type theory


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I meant that as a joke. I'll go back and put a ;-) in the comment.
> 
> I don't know how to help the situation.
> I used to love my parents dearly. My dad had an affair next thing I know my dad is gone as well as my mom and order to provide for us. The next thing I open up my heart to are some pets. They died before their time. So I learned as a child everything I love either leaves me or dies. I closed off. It was a protective shell. Really hard to break.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is very sad


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'll make tea said:


> Hey, I am an ENFP. *shakes hand*


I've read all kinds of descriptions. This one pretty much nails me. Except that I have no tattoos ... as everyone has tattoos.



> outgoing, social, disorganized, easily talked into doing silly things, spontaneous, wild and crazy, acts without thinking, good at getting people to have fun, pleasure seeking, irresponsible, physically affectionate, risk taker, thrill seeker, likely to have or want a tattoo, adventurous, unprepared, attention seeking, hyperactive, irrational, loves crowds, rule breaker, prone to losing things, seductive, easily distracted, open, revealing, comfortable in unfamiliar situations, attracted to strange things, non punctual, likes to stand out, likes to try new things, fun seeker, unconventional, energetic, impulsive, empathetic, dangerous, loving, attachment prone, prone to fantasy


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wiltshireman said:


> I cannot speak for all men but I know I am reluctant to show negative emotions to those I love. ( I struggled with anger management as a younger man).
> 
> OP, When you asked your husband how he felt / was he told you honestly, that should be all you need.


I know he does not want to scare me with anger, but I think I have to be able to handle some, if I want him to be transparent.

The thing is, Wilt, I need verbal affirmation regularly. Dh does not seem to need it at all, and has to be constantly reminded, okay, begged, to give it to me. 

And I don't really understand why I have to keep saying it. I mean, it is embarrassing to have to ask him, but I just do it, anyway. It is like I am storing up loving words to tide me through until the next time we are together (he is away a lot for work).


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I don't believe that every man does do it on purpose jld. I know many men that aren't inquisitive about their relationships at all. If everything looks ok, they presume it is ok.

I'm not one of those guys. I was much, much, more expressive than my ex-wife. It also became one of the reasons that we grew apart. 



jld said:


> You know, Deejo, I know that dh does not do this on purpose (love her less than she wants to be loved). He was genuinely surprised by some of the things I expressed on that Kink thread. He did not know I felt the things I did, and he was stunned that I felt unsure of his desire.
> 
> I think we need to keep working on more transparent communication. I don't expect to get everything I want in marriage, but I don't want to sit around crying because of misinterpretation, either.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> I meant that as a joke. I'll go back and put a ;-) in the comment.
> 
> I don't know how to help the situation.
> I used to love my parents dearly. My dad had an affair next thing I know my dad is gone as well as my mom in order to provide for us. The next thing I open up my heart to are some pets. They died before their time. So I learned as a child everything I love either leaves me or dies. I closed off. It was a protective shell. Really hard to break.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



(((((Cloaked)))))

I am so sorry. I hope you will feel enough love and trust to open up fully.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jld said:


> The thing is, Wilt, I need verbal affirmation regularly. Dh does not seem to need it at all, and has to be constantly reminded, okay, begged, to give it to me.
> 
> And I don't really understand why I have to keep saying it. I mean, it is embarrassing to have to ask him, but I just do it, anyway. It is like I am storing up loving words to tide me through until the next time we are together (he is away a lot for work).


This describes my new girlfriend exactly.

She presumes something is up if I text her 10 times one day, and only 5 the next. 

It's endearing for the moment, but I don't think I could live with this kind of 'testing' all the time. But I've already said to her, I want to be a good partner. I believe that I am. If you believe otherwise, or you aren't having your needs met, you need to TELL me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I don't believe that every man does do it on purpose jld. I know many men that aren't inquisitive about their relationships at all. If everything looks ok, they presume it is ok.
> 
> I'm not one of those guys. I was much, much, more expressive than my ex-wife. It also became one of the reasons that we grew apart.


I'm sorry to hear that, Deejo. I sure don't want that to happen to us. I am pretty expressive, and dh seems willing to try to be more transparent. It is definitely not his nature, though. 

It is tricky, accepting each other as we are, but pushing each other to get our needs met.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I got ISTP:scratchhead:

DH got ISTJ


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, if she is indeed like me, and you can't handle the intensity, get out now. It does not get any better. Some of us just crave affirmation.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jld said:


> Well, if she is indeed like me, and you can't handle the intensity, get out now. It does not get any better. Some of us just crave affirmation.


I listened, and I changed my behavior. She meets my needs. So ... I want to meet hers. I'm just trying to have a better understanding.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I got ISTP:scratchhead:


Read the descriptions, SB. Those questions on the test can be hard to answer accurately. 

When dh and I read INFP, we both thought it sounded like me. I don't think I ever ended up INFP on an actual test.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I listened, and I changed my behavior. She meets my needs. So ... I want to meet hers. I'm just trying to have a better understanding.


Sorry to be a downer, Deejo. You sound like a great guy for her.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You know, it is not like I doubt dh's deep commitment to me. I just wish some of the more superficial things were in alignment. And I think that is where more transparent communication can help.

And I have to accept that some things are never going to be natural for him, like being spontaneously affectionate as often as I would like. And I am probably always going to feel stupid asking for a hug or just plopping myself down on his lap whenever I feel like it. I mean, some men have actually written posts wondering why their wives don't do these things, and I have pointed that out to dh, that he gets all that for free.

Okay, it is not for free. Obviously he is doing a lot of right things for me to want to be close to him.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jld said:


> Yeah, but I want something out of the relationship, too, Cloaked. I want to feel like he is as into me as I am into him.
> 
> But I think I am just looking at it the wrong way, looking through my eyes instead of his.



Absolutely not. You need to make clear to him what you need and he needs to meet you half way. What if my husband wanted sex and I said that's just not how I show my love? Maybe I show it by cooking dinner. The board would have a stroke because hubby has needs. The reality is that you both have needs and you both deserve, to a reasonable degree, to have those needs met.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *jld said*: *He is INTP*


Oh sorry I got that wrong [email protected]#

Mine is an ISFJ...he is a FEELER....he is not as forthcoming as myself ...whether those feelings are GOOD, Bad, irritation, anger.....like many MEN...he has a quieter low keyed demeanor about him (when we were dating I used to get on him to have a little more "Ooomph" in some areas, I was always the higher enthusiastic partner)... not much ruffles him either....

Though in the past 5 yrs...I have been pleasantly surprised...showing himself with more "expressing" -this has gone UP ...

He wasn't as vulnerable with ME -until we opened up where we missed it in the past -at my leading........we both just laid it out there... long talks, holding each other....we shared and beared it all... there were tears..some OMG's!... we fought...wild laughter at times...lots of make up sex.... through it all... such a Thankfulness...every range of high emotion was spilled ... *and it was GOOD*....I needed to feel that FROM HIM... he NEEDED to feel it from me... in the areas I was missing HIM... and my regret.

See, he thought he loved me more than I loved him over the yrs...oh my....this was so never true.. then I cried cause he felt this..it should have never never never been.

I can read his feelings very easily...IF I am paying attention (I wasn't enough in the past)...this Man NEVER complains, never shows a weakness....even when he should have! 

So in this way, very MANLY... and to have it on the other side...his being able /open to show his sensitive side to me.. and Yeah.. I eat that up.. I don't care if other women think it's too much... I'm not one of them. 

He has always been one who shows his emotions through Touch ...and I'd say it's my response to THIS / my interaction with it, ....that brings more of the verbal expressing ...He can be very sappy!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> You know, it is not like I doubt dh's deep commitment to me. I just wish some of the more superficial things were in alignment. *And I think that is where more transparent communication can help.*
> 
> *And I have to accept that some things are never going to be natural for him, like being spontaneously affectionate as often as I would like. And I am probably always going to feel stupid asking for a hug or just plopping myself down on his lap whenever I feel like it. I mean, some men have actually written posts wondering why their wives don't do these things, and I have pointed that out to dh, that he gets all that for free.*


All I can say to your post is... ((( HUGS ))) I would feel the same as you....ALL WOMEN would.... unless they were "cold"....it has to play on your mind...almost like you are bothering him to some degree... if he would just give some enthusiastic FEEDBACK now and then, it would be so reassuring, music to your ears...... is this what you long for? 

I wouldn't handle this well.... I very much sympathize with how you feel Jld... 

It is tough when a person is geared so far in another direction , it's like their feet is not touching the ground to what we DEEPLY....and I want to emphasize DEEPLY... *NEED*...this would "fill your cup".. it isn't asking for much.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My H is very outwardly emotive and when he goes out of town for work (no more than 2 days at a time) we both call, text, and whine to each other about how much we miss each other the whole time.

If he has to leave in the morning before I do, he spends several extra minutes in bed with me and we cuddle and coo and talk about how we'll miss each other through the day.

By noon on work days, we have always texted each other at least once saying things like "good morning baby! hope you are having a great day!"

When we get home, we race into each other's arms and kiss.

I'm just putting this out there to show there are men who are like this (and they can still be a he-man Sex God). 

I doubt that most adults could change this habit much, but some improvements can be made in anyone's life.

Deejo - what you said about "give just a teensy bit less than they want" or whatever...that's funny, because that advice is also in some girl game dating books, and it does work the other way, too. In the beginning of our relationship, I definitely gave just a teensy bit less and it did keep him on his toes and coming around for more (well, that plus, I'm awesome). But eventually...I fell in love so deeply that this rule was just washed away by the tidal wave of emotions that were underneath that type of gaming. The real stuff sometimes has to be mined out of us.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I am the ISTJ wife of a husband who travels a lot. I'm the responsible one, so when H leaves for a trip I make sure I have dates and contact numbers but there has never been a big scene about how much I will miss him, no tears. 

When H mentioned that this made him feel unloved I made an effort to make more of a fuss at departure and arrival time. I try to add those words of affirmation that he loves so much, sometimes I forget because this isn't my natural thought process. I mean he is only going to be gone for four days, what's the big deal?

If I didn't love him I would tell him, there would be no wondering on his part. All that time I thought I was a great wife, taking care of everything at home without help or complaining, and yet still H felt hurt. Just shows how two different people can have totally different reactions to the same events.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Absolutely not. You need to make clear to him what you need and he needs to meet you half way. What if my husband wanted sex and I said that's just not how I show my love? Maybe I show it by cooking dinner. The board would have a stroke because hubby has needs. The reality is that you both have needs and you both deserve, to a reasonable degree, to have those needs met.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, and I think he will. What is funny, though, is that before I found TAM, I don't know if that would have happened. It was more like I would ask, but if he said no, it kind of stayed there, until he felt like changing. Now he seems more open to my needs being important, too.

And I wonder if it has something to do with our kids getting older, too. 

And he just loves that job. Changing companies after over 20 years with the first one has just been so, so positive for him. I feel like he has more energy to give me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Your dh sounds really nice, SA. And you two just seem to fit so well together. :smthumbup:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> All I can say to your post is... ((( HUGS ))) I would feel the same as you....ALL WOMEN would.... unless they were "cold"....it has to play on your mind...almost like you are bothering him to some degree... if he would just give some enthusiastic FEEDBACK now and then, it would be so reassuring, music to your ears...... is this what you long for?
> 
> I wouldn't handle this well.... I very much sympathize with how you feel Jld...
> 
> It is tough when a person is geared so far in another direction , it's like their feet is not touching the ground to what we DEEPLY....and I want to emphasize DEEPLY... *NEED*...this would "fill your cup".. it isn't asking for much.


Well, I think part of it is that he is French. They do not hug over there. And dh is so reserved. When it comes to work, he is such a natural. But it is different at home.

I really do respect dh, and I am kind of amazed by him all the time, but sometimes I wish he were more human. I used to tell him he was one with the motors he used to make, lol.

I think I am just so intensely emotional, and he is not, that we will just have to work extra hard to bridge the gap, and accept what cannot be bridged.

I have to laugh at how he messes with me sometimes, though. Last week we got a bunch of snow, and when he finally had more than two minutes to talk to me, he called me from Germany. I was really excited to hear from him, and wanted to connect emotionally. 

The first thing he said was, "How is it with the snow?" I was so mad! We had hardly talked for days, and snow is what he cares about?! I was furious, and told him if he were going to talk about the weather when he called, after hardly talking to me for days, that he needn't bother calling at all!

Then, fifteen minutes later I called him back to apologize . . .

So the next time he called, and again when I picked him up at the airport Fri., the first thing he did was ask me about the snow.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Yeah, I don't think it is meant to be static. It's dynamic. Basically, it is explained in far more detail in this thread:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

If I'm in love, I'm all in. If things start to get a whiff of funky, then I enact the protocols as needed. 

I tried the all out emotional dump before ... I can say unequivocally that has NEVER worked for me in the long term. 
I needed a new strategy for keeping myself in check while trying to legitimately work towards a mutually desired outcome.




Faithful Wife said:


> Deejo - what you said about "give just a teensy bit less than they want" or whatever...that's funny, because that advice is also in some girl game dating books, and it does work the other way, too. In the beginning of our relationship, I definitely gave just a teensy bit less and it did keep him on his toes and coming around for more (well, that plus, I'm awesome). But eventually...I fell in love so deeply that this rule was just washed away by the tidal wave of emotions that were underneath that type of gaming. The real stuff sometimes has to be mined out of us.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> My H is very outwardly emotive and when he goes out of town for work (no more than 2 days at a time) we both call, text, and whine to each other about how much we miss each other the whole time.
> 
> If he has to leave in the morning before I do, he spends several extra minutes in bed with me and we cuddle and coo and talk about how we'll miss each other through the day.
> 
> ...


See, I think you are with your equal, FW, or at least your emotional equal. Dh says we are equal, but maybe in opposite ways?

And I totally agree that whatever the initial attraction, it is the deep stuff that keeps two people together.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Giro flee said:


> I am the ISTJ wife of a husband who travels a lot. I'm the responsible one, so when H leaves for a trip I make sure I have dates and contact numbers but there has never been a big scene about how much I will miss him, no tears.
> 
> When H mentioned that this made him feel unloved I made an effort to make more of a fuss at departure and arrival time. I try to add those words of affirmation that he loves so much, sometimes I forget because this isn't my natural thought process. I mean he is only going to be gone for four days, what's the big deal?
> 
> If I didn't love him I would tell him, there would be no wondering on his part. All that time I thought I was a great wife, taking care of everything at home without help or complaining, and yet still H felt hurt. Just shows how two different people can have totally different reactions to the same events.


You must be such an easy wife, Giro. Your dh is lucky.

My dh kind of thinks like you do, that since he is only gone until Fri., and is just one state away, why do I get upset? But I told him it is good that I feel sad, because that means I am bonded to him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Deejo - Keeping yourself in check is definitely key in the beginning of relationships.

What I think a lot of guys around here don't realize (because there are a lot of former NG's here) is that many women have the same issue of chasing guys, which chases them away.

If anyone, either gender, has that problem...they should learn not to do that.

But after everything is settled (assuming it does)...

...you go right ahead and chase your sweetie! And play tickle and grab ass while you're at it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm a lady INTP. I think it's a personality thing even more than it is a gender thing because I'm never sad when I or my husband leaves anywhere. If I'm going to work, I'm stroked to be going to work, if he's going out I'm stoked to have some quiet alone time (to probably do a little work as well.) That sounds like my dh. Always happy. Drives me crazy. . I mean, I look so needy in comparison.
> 
> But...I am always thinking about my husband/family when they aren't around. They are always on my mind, I think of funny things they have said or things we could work on. Even if/when I'm not calling or in contact...they are on my mind.
> 
> ...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> ...you go right ahead and chase your sweetie! And play tickle and grab ass while you're at it.


Games commence at 6:30 this evening. She has said on at least a dozen occasions, "I love the way you communicate with me."

I recognize that those terms are subject to change without notice.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I recognize that those terms are subject to change without notice.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> *I doubt that most adults could change this habit much, but some improvements can be made in anyone's life*.


 We REALLY improved here..in comparing our past...your post sounds so much like us.. minus the texting... I swear we are the only TAM posters who don't text !

I was a LAX wife once upon a time... I didn't get up for his breakfast -to send him off with a kiss ...(I was more a night owl -bad habit)..... he would sometimes get up in the am early to look at those playboy bunnies he was collecting (when I should have been giving am Bj's)......when he got home, I wasn't looking to be hugged or kissed...didn't even think about it (though he did)... but I might have a project on my mind.... I was so "duty focused" depending on what was going in at the time... or we had to rush here, or there...

Or I might be on a "Parenting forum" and not even wink that he walked through the door... shame shame on me... no wonder he didn't feel as loved... 

We were still close, did everything together , watched movies at night, he twirled my hair...all that ...but we still missed each other ... it could have been MORE...more flirting / more Affection....more deep talks..

My goodness, getting a higher sex drive made me *so NEEDY*! I was jumping all over him, I suddenly catered to his every whim.....we shut out the kids , we cuddled in the morning...I longed for him during the day, excited when he walked through the door...I'd plan special things for us to get off alone....

It's all in what you want I guess....But we can CHANGE....adjust our habits.. they say if you do something consistently for 17 days straight ...it becomes a habit.. I need to stay off of TAM that long and see if it works.. or start an exercise program....



> *jld said*: I have to laugh at how he messes with me sometimes, though. Last week we got a bunch of snow, and when he finally had more than two minutes to talk to me, he called me from Germany. I was really excited to hear from him, and wanted to connect emotionally.
> 
> The first thing he said was, "*How is it with the snow?" I was so mad! We had hardly talked for days, and snow is what he cares about?! I was furious, and told him if he were going to talk about the weather when he called, after hardly talking to me for days, that he needn't bother calling at all!*
> 
> ...


 :rofl: I could easily see ME starting a rant like that - given how you haven't heard from him in days... It's great to laugh about it too... Very releasing.. 

I think you've done an amazing job at bridging that gap if I must say so myself... you don't sound resentful of him.. You just kinda realize or remind yourself -it IS what it is...He is a great man... life is good...and you push through... and concentrate on what you are thankful for... so a few outbursts here & there, I can understand *why*...YOU MISS HIM / his time, his attention [email protected]#$ .... I give you much credit Jld!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm INTJ.

Have always been ever since I first saw a similar chart.

Goodbyes for me are pretty simple, just a hug a kiss, but the reunion definitely means more to me.

On the personality type, I fluctuate between introvert and extrovert ,_at will_.

To me, emotions are best demonstrated by actions , no so much words. I demonstrate how I feel by the things I do for her, and the way I do it.
My wife has never questioned if or how much I love her , she just knows , and takes full advantage . She makes whatever requests / demands she wants based on that, that's her privilege and prerogative _exclusively_. She's confident about it.

And I like that she_ knows_that.

To me proper communication is premium in a relationship. I don't need to know every emotion you feel , but when you communicate with me , do it in a way that I could understand and vice versa. Understanding where each other is coming from is what makes me feel loved.

I could deal with insecurity in a relationship partner but I can't handle excessive drama in relationships.
To me it's senseless and a huge turn off to me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> I do rarely blow up, but when I do it's fairly epic.
> 
> But it rarely lasts even a day on the outside and rarely more than a week on the inside.
> 
> ...


Well, a lot of this sounds familiar. 

I have pretty much had to give up my pride on this communication issue. He is unlikely to guess what I am feeling, accurately, 100% of the time. So more and more I just say it outright. Or like I said, I will just tell him how I want him to be affectionate, and when. And I will sometimes even tell him the words of affirmation I want to hear.

I know, sounds ridiculous, but if it makes me feel better, well, why argue with success? And maybe eventually he will do it without being told, lol!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Basically he said, "Love her just a little less than she wants to be loved."
> 
> To a woman this may sound cruel. To me, it sounds like a perfect formula to maintain and build upon attraction.


I dunno if this would work in my marriage.I knew it worked for me while dating.
But one we crossed a certain threshold , the game <--[ no pun intended] changed.
I just go all out and hold nothing back.

But then my wife's love language is acts of service.
That's why I cook , do the laundry , buy her stuff before she even asks, etc . 
Maybe that's why she never wonders if or how much I love her.

My love language is definitely touch.There's never a time we don't touch each other when we're in close proximity. Even when we're both in the kitchen, she's rubbing her body on me. She knows I like it.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

jld said:


> You know, it is not like I doubt dh's deep commitment to me. I just wish some of the more superficial things were in alignment. And I think that is where more transparent communication can help.
> 
> And I have to accept that some things are never going to be natural for him, like being spontaneously affectionate as often as I would like. And I am probably always going to feel stupid asking for a hug or just plopping myself down on his lap whenever I feel like it. I mean, some men have actually written posts wondering why their wives don't do these things, and I have pointed that out to dh, that he gets all that for free.
> 
> Okay, it is not for free. Obviously he is doing a lot of right things for me to want to be close to him.


Hahaha, naaawwww.. you're ace jld!! ((hugs))

You sound just like my GF.

Ohh and apparently I'm an INFJ. You should try that test out jld, it really is fascinating. I was surprised by just how accurate the report was; so much so, in fact, that I ordered the full report in .pdf format. It provides some interesting advice on how your relative strengths and weaknesses can be enhanced/curtailed to better your relationship with your partner (assuming you've accurately assessed their personality type too!)


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks, SA. I love him so much, and he does make me laugh. But we have these things we can do better, and that is what we are doing here at TAM. Thanks for the support.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But CM, you don't have kids, right? Marriage can look very different with kids around all the time.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks Applejuice! 

Dh had his done at a training he went to. I have done the test a few times and gotten different answers. So I just decided to read the descriptions. . INFP is the one dh and I both thought fit me best.

It seems pretty accurate. We have few big conflicts, but these more superficial ones. And we don't stay mad long. Ten or fifteen minutes and I am ready to talk. And dh is usually just mad for seconds. That is why I lean on him, and probably why I am always seeking after him, too, lol. He is very steady.

Keep being good to your girlfriend!


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

Hahaha My pleasure jld, and you keep loving your reserved Dh, it certainly sounds like he loves you very dearly even if he is a little stiff. <sniggers>


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Applejuice said:


> Hahaha My pleasure jld, and you keep loving your reserved Dh, it certainly sounds like he loves you very dearly even if he is a little stiff. <sniggers>


:lol:

Yes, there is that stiffness, but it is not one of the problems . . .


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

FrenchFry said:


> ...Also, it's not that I don't notice bad feelings. I'm just hilariously bad at confronting them because I don't know what to do without becoming hilariously emotional myself--which I don't really like. So if I'm not forced to deal with a simmering stew I'm not going to until it gets dumped on my head.
> 
> Dump it on his head. A lot. And then be sustanibly awesome if he responds in the way you need. That is how results are defined in my house.


lol @ hilariously bad - at least you can appreciate the comedy value of your idiosyncrasies. There's nothing as liberating as self-realisation.

Incidentally, was I correct in assuming that jld's dh is an INTP? If so, what is the conventional strategy proposed by the '16personalities' study for jld's INFP archetype to address the subtle conflicts between their respective approaches to emotional expression?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> First took this test in middle school--INTP. Yes, I think INTP is one of the more consistent, easier to recognize types. And it is a cool type to be--I admire that intellect and steadiness.
> 
> Still haven't changed.  Also, I really like to talk about this, sorry about your luck.
> 
> ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hey, thanks a lot, FF!


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

Oh, incidentally, although I've done the '16personalities test AND the 'Humanmetrics Jung Typology Test' three times and all resulted in the same INFJ outcome, I can't relate to the 'tend to do well in school', 'tend to excel in non-scientific fields' - neither of which are particularly accurate descriptions of me.

Ironically, I'd say my archetype has changed considerably since I was an early adolescent. Are archetypes flexible or am I just not accurately answering the hypothetical's in the questionaires? Is there a particular way I should be framing the question? (e.g. idealistically vs. practically or specifically vs. generally).

Sorry about the momentary red herring jld, it just seemed overkill and slightly narcissistic to start a new thread for this trivial query!


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

FrenchFry said:


> Good question!
> 
> I'm married to an NT so I don't have a whole lot of insight as to what would be a good strategy for meshing with an NF.
> 
> ...


Good work Watson! :smthumbup:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

That's okay. Your questions are interesting.

I don't think the descriptions are meant to fit you down to the last detail. But overall, it should fit you the best of the 16 types.

Have you read all the descriptions yet? Which one just fits the best based on the descriptions?


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks jld, I'm new to all this Jungian archetypal shenanigans but I'm hooked - it certainly beats astrological charts! hurhur

Actually, I was blown away by just how accurate the report was in all but a few relatively trivial aspects such as my love of science and technology and my passion for art, but I suppose those are mainly academic distinctions.

The thing is, prior to my secondary school years, my 'persona' was distinctly different to my post secondary school years which in turn was distinctly different to my post TaM-discovery (current) 'persona'. I started off as a narcissistic little sh*t, was humbled beyond measure and became a rather feeble and needy character then finally, became somewhat emotionally stifled/distanced (at least in respect to romance).

So really, I just want to know which underlying archetype best describes me irrespective of my Jungian 'Persona's'.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks FF, so really I need to ascertain my underlying archetype which I assume is fundamentally NF, then cross reference it with which 'type' I am! Great.. thanks buddie!



FrenchFry said:


> ...Also, I think how you answer questions is part of your personality type. :rofl: How do you answer them?


lol... you just had to go and compound it didn't you!! I'll be obsessing over this all week!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Wow, FF. More to show dh!


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

What on earth are INTP's enneagrams etc?

It all sounds like psycho babble to me.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Mbti:scratchhead:

Can't you guys speak English for an old dude?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> :rofl: Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.  Sorry, I forget not everyone geeks out on these things.


Do I dare click that link?


What is your best guess if I do?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

ENFJ

Extravert(11%) iNtuitive(75%) Feeling(25%) Judging(67%)
•You have slight preference of Extraversion over Introversion (11%)
•You have distinctive preference of Intuition over Sensing (75%)
•You have moderate preference of Feeling over Thinking (25%)
•You have distinctive preference of Judging over Perceiving (67%)


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What is your ennegram type, FF?

Mine is 2.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My H is an 8. Which for some people would be a deal breaker. LOL!

But he has a 2 wing.

I'm a 2 with an 8.

Yin yang!


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I had a fairly even spread with slight peaks at type 2 and 9

I think it might be more applicable to get someone else to fill them in for you.

A number of the questions I could answer either way.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Asa guy, I suppose we are just all different, we all have different personalities. I hear people say that men don't often "show" their emotions, which leads me to believe that if men would just let it out, they too might break down when they had to leave for that 2 day business trip, but instead, they just hold it in; however, I have seen people express emotions at times that i did not feel in the way they expressed it. 

I had a guy tell me that his wife will go on an all day shopping trip with her sisters and ask if I missed her while she was gone. He said he thought it was cute, and he would always say that he did, but he discovered that she was serious and wished he would express more emotion about the situation.

He said he just looked at the shopping outing as a normal thing. It's not like she's leaving to never return or going on a dangerous mission. I could relate to that.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Ok... I did the damn test...
I (44%) N(62%) T (12%) J (44%)

My enneagram type is 
Type 9 (Peacemaker) with a 1 wing Sexual variant. Whatever that wing thing is...

The second on that list is a Type 2 SX followed by a Type 1 SO...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But you never know, southbound. Don't most car accidents happen a mile from home?

Not that I am paranoid or anything.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Racer...being a 9 would explain a lot about you.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Just did another and came out as a 1 with W2.

I doubt that they are entirely accurate.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> Racer...being a 9 would explain a lot about you.


 Yes... I was looking a bit more at it and using my story could track the progress towards a balanced state. Pretty cool stuff...

general description

Average 9/1 has a sort of cloudlike softness. The one-wing adds a flavor of intellectuality, but nine is more powerful, so the 9/1's thoughts are not likely to receive much reality-testing. As a result, 9/1 often has a set of beliefs about the world that may seem superstitious or magical to others. For 9/1, this is no problem, because, strange as it may seem, these magical beliefs often seem to actually work for them. Unlike 9/8, 9/1 has a kind of refinement and poise, because of the one-wing's desire to be perfect. But 9/1 is more likely to lie down and take a nap than the more workaholic 1/9.


balanced and transcendent states

Balanced 9/1 somehow becomes more present. Now there is really somebody home, a genuine being with actual goals and self-interest who happily starts creating results in the world. Nine begins to show some threeish ambition and the one-wing begins to loosen up its perfectionism. While such a person is still probably involved in activities that are non-threatening and not particularly visible in the world at large, the results often affect others in ways that are surprisingly useful and subtle.

Advanced 9/1 finds deep sevenish joy in the accomplishment of personal goals. Usually the goals involve teaching or otherwise empowering others. Oneish intellectual rigor assumes real importance when the desire for withdrawal diminishes, allowing 9/1 to risk genuine involvement. Thoughts and internal images finally correspond to actual reality and 9/1 is able to transmit to others a special and powerful kind of integrated self-actualization.


unbalanced and unhealthy states

Under stress, nineish withdrawal increases, accompanied by oneish judgment of self and others. 9/1 retreats into a fantasy world inhabited by comfortably fuzzy generalities and stereotyped images of other people. These are the people 9/1 wishes could inhabit the real world -- wishful, perfect images of real people. Unfortunately, because 9/1 is convinced of the reality of these internally generated images, real-life interactions suffer when people do not live up to their idealized images. But the 9/1 tries very hard not to notice.

In the extreme, it becomes nearly impossible not to see the discrepancies between the perfect inner images and the outward reality. Total isolation becomes the only way to avoid seeing that the world is populated by disturbingly imperfect, unpredictable, demanding, untrustworthy beings. Life falls apart at the seams and psychotic 9/1 eventually may reach a state of catatonic pseudo-coma. Even eating and drinking can become too much work. No one is home in the body, and the body itself is allowed to fall into ruins.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Wysh...the myers-briggs is far more accurate than the ennegram. Basically the ennegram tests are just a beginning point, and you actually have to know the whole system to eventually know where you land (and don't bother, it isn't really important).

Racer...you are clearly a 9 and that is why you think you are insane. You aren't, it is just that the rest of us are not 9's like you, we can't put aside our fears, anger, insecurity and meanness. Very few people are true 9's.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I just took an Enneagram Test Eclectic Energies Enneagram Tests (free) never heard of this ....

14 pages and this was my result...



> You are most likely a type 1 or 6.
> 
> Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 1w2.


 I have no idea what any of this means !


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You are most likely a 6, SA.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

yay another test to do 

How do you know what your wing is?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> *You are most likely a 6, SA*.


Then I took another test and came out this...



> You are most likely a type 8 (the Challenger) with 7 wing Social variant


 7 wing = Enthusiast I guess ? 



> Enneagram *type 8 - The Challenger*....People of this personality type are essentially unwilling to be controlled, either by others or by their circumstances; they fully intend to be masters of their fate. Eights are strong willed, decisive, practical, tough minded and energetic. They also tend to be domineering; their unwillingness to be controlled by others frequently manifests in the need to control others instead. When healthy, this tendency is kept under check, but the tendency is always there, nevertheless, and can assume a central role in the Eight's interpersonal relationships.


But that first Test = 6 (so you feel FW)= *The Loyalist* with a *Reformer / Helper wing*.. so confused...this is all over the map... 

Though reading these 3 variants -the sexual one sounds more like I feel over the social one, I prefer one on one -over groups generally...the whole intimacy thing is quite BIG for me...I think what screwed me is I *do* care about responsibility and rules pretty much. 



> 1. Self-preservation variant
> 
> People of the self-preservation variant are generally trying to be comfortable and independent. Their well-being is very important to them, so they pay much attention to their health, house and financial position. They are less interested in interpersonal contact, and are typically less spontaneous and don't show as much emotion as people of the other two subtypes of their enneagram type.
> 
> ...


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

jld said:


> But you never know, southbound. Don't most car accidents happen a mile from home?
> 
> Not that I am paranoid or anything.


True, but i guess my mind just doesn't work that way. I suppose something bad could happen anytime anyplace, but i suppose I have an optimistic attitude.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

SA...yes it can be all over the place. This is because we all have some of each of the traits possible...and because it is not an exact thing. But if someone reads more about the system (not that there is any reason to but just out of interest) you eventually can score yourself with much more accuracy.

I still think you would end up at a 6 with more study into the system and reading more about the types and seeing yourself in them.

You do like to challenge people and ideas...but usually you are challenging them from the basis of your own loyalty, if that makes any sense?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Says I'm a 9...9w1

interesting test


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Business travel changes a man's perception. Maybe it's just me. I spent a lot of time traveling about 1998-2002 time frame and it was amazing to see the moment you step out of the car at the airport your perception changes. On a ten day trip once I found myself not thinking much of anything home related. Just work and fun on the company's dime.

Needless to say my wife did not take it lightly as she was working and stuck with two young children (her view). 

Things have changed since and we keep in touch more when I'm traveling - a couple nights a month if that - but business travel really changes the way you think. After a few trips I was like, man I now know why everyone loves it 

So don't think it's all internal emotion driven. Even the most emotional guy can be swayed by a week's stay in Redmond, WA.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Type 8 possibly 3 using the short test...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lol, John. Dh really does love his job.

He also gets a chance to exercise and study German every day, things that might or might not happen here at home.

I think he is more focused on us now when he is home than before. He takes us less for granted.

Well, I am just going to keep working on transparent communication. Thanks for your input.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jld said:


> Well, I am just going to keep working on transparent communication. Thanks for your input.


One suggestion is to think about what you would like him to do (in a perfect world) and consider how that will effect other things.

For example, let's say that when he leaves, you want him to show visible sadness and emotion over leaving you. If he does that, would that alter your perception of him? One of the things you appear to admire about him is the support he provides and your ability to lean on him when you are emotional. Would you still feel that way if he gave you the emotional interplay that you are asking for?

I have a certain drive and work ethic that my wife has a love/hate relationship with. She hates that it causes me to work long hours. But she loves that ethic for what it does for our family (allows her to be a SAHM), our home (as I tend to drive the projects we do around the house) and our kids (the time I send with them working on different things). We have worked to compromise, with me doing better about being engaged with her at home. But she has also recognizes that changing one thing will change others that she actually likes. 

So, while a discussion with your husband is a must, being honest with yourself is also important.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks for your post, TAG.

I am not asking for him to become emotional upon leaving. I would appreciate some verbal acknowledgement that he is sad to go, though. Words are really important to me. He knows that, and seems to be willing to try to provide more verbal affirmation.

We just talked for a few minutes, and dh told me that while he certainly works to support me and the kids, he genuinely enjoys working. He really likes that job, and gets a lot of personal satisfaction out of it. He could never happily be a SAHD, I think.

I really am grateful to be a SAHM, and I think dh has worked really hard and given us great opportunities. As hard as living in France and India was, we learned things there that we could not have learned any other way. 

Dh mentioned over the weekend, that even with ds's cancer, we learned things and grew in ways we could not have otherwise. Certainly, we wish the cancer had never happened, but that does not mean our whole family has not grown because of it.

I know I am lucky, and I strive to be a worthy wife. I think that transparent communication, and a commitment to reality on the part of both partners, can only be helpful to a marriage. And I really do want us to have the most satisfying, fulfilling marriage we can.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If he loves his job the next trip is an opportunity to shine so you're fight in an uphill battle...

In this day and age there is a lot less need for business travel yet we do business as usual. Start exploring such options and see if you can reduce the time away. My wife's company is notorious for sending people on the road; my wife's only got one client to deal with for now and threatens to leave the company if she's put on the travel rotation 

Silly IMHO but what can you do. She and DH are opposites. I'm skeptical of the need to travel unless you're a surgeon or a plumber that's all.

How's living in France hard?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

He has people working for him in all these different places. They just work harder when they see you once in a while. You are more present than just on the phone, or on e-mail.

The harder they work, the easier my husband's job is. The more money he will make. The easier for us financially. More opportunities for the kids. You know, John.

France is not as rich as America. There are not the opportunities for the kids there that there are in America. Yes, it's beautiful, but it is also very expensive. At one point that is how I started coping with my frustration. I just started buying Lego kits for the boys whenever they would ask, like at least once a week.

We were homeschooling there, which is like ostracizing yourself. The French move in a group. If the group is not doing it, it must be wrong. I don't think that way. I do what I feel like doing, not what the group thinks. I would like the support of the group, but I am not going to give up my freedom to get it. And certainly not my intellectual freedom.

I didn't drive there (too scared, and dh did not want to pay for a driving school), and our kids were young. I was scared to make friends (French women can be very competitive). I think I was just scared all around. That was 7 years ago, and maybe it would be different now.

We were also living in an apartment, because dh was working for a cheap *** company that did not want to give much of a housing allowance. I am so glad he left that company. The new one is just so much healthier.

I did love the health care system, though. Great quality, low price. And it was fun to use public transportation, like when I wanted to go into Paris by myself on the train, when dh was at work and the kids were willing to stay alone. It is expensive, but I could walk from the apartment to the train station, and less than an hour later be downtown Paris, shopping or eating ethnic food, and just being in one of the most beautiful, pleasant cities in the world.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, I'm not a big believer on the boss is here let's work harder routine. Hasn't worked with my boss 

We have overseas teams as well and my wife's company too. Most of them in India at least are always with one foot on the door on the way to their next job... So we're always training newbies.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

jld said:


> ...I just started buying Lego kits for the boys whenever they would ask, like at least once a week.
> 
> We were homeschooling there, which is like ostracizing yourself. The French move in a group. If the group is not doing it, it must be wrong. I don't think that way. I do what I feel like doing, not what the group thinks. I would like the support of the group, but I am not going to give up my freedom to get it. And certainly not my intellectual freedom.
> 
> I didn't drive there (too scared, and dh did not want to pay for a driving school), and our kids were young. I was scared to make friends (French women can be very competitive). I think I was just scared all around. That was 7 years ago, and maybe it would be different now..


lol nawwww.. there's nothing more adorable than a doting mother!

I agree with your individualist sentiments all the way ..then again, I'm a huge advocate of Gustave Le Bon's assessment of crowd psychology.

I knew a very glamorous French girl at Uni who was too ashamed to visit her family during the holidays because they always accused her of being obese... OBESE!!! lol


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> Well, I'm not a big believer on the boss is here let's work harder routine. Hasn't worked with my boss
> 
> We have overseas teams as well and my wife's company too. Most of them in India at least are always with one foot on the door on the way to their next job... So we're always training newbies.


The guys working for him are not PhDs. They are engineers or business people, and for whatever reason, things just go better when he is present. He does the purchasing for 8 factories in 5 countries on 3 continents. It is just a lot to manage.

And dh is not very communicative. I think it frustrates his reports. But he is a very nice person, and always willing to help. So I think in person visits are good for him in building relationships. 

Dh does not believe in rewards, does not think to "celebrate success," and is not a socializer. He is basically no fun.  But everyone respects his knowledge. 

One woman told him that she was nervous when he was first hired, because he was so serious. But after working for him for a year, she told him she finally felt like she was part of a successful team, and she had not felt like that before he arrived.

As you know, John, growth in India has been tremendous. When dh was running that factory there, they were always trying to hire people. And employee retention was pretty important. Dh told me attrition went way down when he took over the project of starting that factory, and stayed low the whole time he was in charge. I think people just trust him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Applejuice said:


> lol nawwww.. there's nothing more adorable than a doting mother!
> 
> I agree with your individualist sentiments all the way ..then again, I'm a huge advocate of Gustave Le Bon's assessment of crowd psychology.
> 
> I knew a very glamorous French girl at Uni who was too ashamed to visit her family during the holidays because they always accused her of being obese... OBESE!!! lol


Yeah, I know how the French define "obese." They really have gotten fatter there, though. I have not been there since 2011, but I noticed a big difference just from 2008 until then.

I am not familiar with Gustave Le Bon. I will look him up . . .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ok, jld, since you're getting all French foie gras teary eyed.... Here's my favorite French musicians list.

1. Jean Michelle Jarre (Oxygene I)
2. Space (Magic Fly)

That's it. I've gotten a bunch of French Hip Hop music for my Francophile girl but that's teenager stuff. Put down some Oxygene, grab a cup of coffee, and enjoy.

Ask DH if he knows those 2.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Will do, John.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

jld said:


> ..I am not familiar with Gustave Le Bon. I will look him up . . .


Good, I think you'd appreciate his philosophy. 



john117 said:


> 1. Jean Michelle Jarre (Oxygene I)..
> 
> ..That's it. I've gotten a bunch of French Hip Hop music for my Francophile girl but that's teenager stuff. Put down some Oxygene, grab a cup of coffee, and enjoy.


ZOMG, I thought I was the only person square enough to still be playing that at home with the windows open! lol


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dh played some Jarre for me last night. He said he was an avant-garde composer very popular in the 80s, and that Jarre's father was a composer, too.

I could see you liking that music, John. 

I had a great conversation with dh last night. It only lasted 3 minutes, because he was busy, but he really opened his heart and was just transparent.

Transparency is my new mantra. It brings people closer together and helps them understand each other. Stopping communication is what kills relationships.

Thanks again, Applejuice, for mentioning Le Bon. I just read a little bit, but it was nice to have my observation of the French as moving in a group confirmed. That group mentality can drive an American crazy.


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