# I had an affair and my husband is divorcing me



## Lost at sea

I am a 41year old woman who is in the middle of a divorce. My husband has left me after i didnt end my affair when i was first caught. 

Why do i do these things to begin with? I think some of it id loving attention. It made me feel young again. My husband is a good man and good provider. I think we just got a little bored with everyday life and disconnected a bit. He played in basketball leagues to get out of his rut and i dated other men behind hid back. 

My affair ended when he exposed my idiot love interest and me at our work place. I have quit my job since this all happemed. Too little too late now. My hubby wont talk to me now. Only about our kids. We have 2 kids. I wish i could get him to talk to me. Even to yell at me. Its like he just went ice cold. I hate that what we had together is in trouble now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jonesey

Lost at sea said:


> I am a 41year old woman who is in the middle of a divorce. My husband has left me after i didnt end my affair when i was first caught.
> 
> Why do i do these things to begin with? I think some of it id loving attention. It made me feel young again. My husband is a good man and good provider. I think we just got a little bored with everyday life and disconnected a bit. He played in basketball leagues to get out of his rut and i dated other men behind hid back.
> 
> My affair ended when he exposed my idiot love interest and me at our work place. I have quit my job since this all happemed. Too little too late now. My hubby wont talk to me now. Only about our kids. We have 2 kids. I wish i could get him to talk to me. Even to yell at me. Its like he just went ice cold. I hate that what we had together is in trouble now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Welcome back.. Glad you started you´r own thread...


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## Lost at sea

I am 41. We have been married for over 17 years. 2 kids that we both adore. 

I had a ons about 10 years ago. I have also kissed another man 5 years ago and only ended it when he was transferred.

Is there a way to end this behavior?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

The best you may be able to do now is to warn other waywards that there are permanent consequences to the cheating.

Maybe your goal now should be to help others avoid this same fate?


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## Shaggy

Lost at sea said:


> I am 41. We have been married for over 17 years. 2 kids that we both adore.
> 
> I had a ons about 10 years ago. I have also kissed another man 5 years ago and only ended it when he was transferred.
> 
> Is there a way to end this behavior?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wait, want there also a full blown long term affair?


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## Openminded

Lost at sea said:


> I am 41. We have been married for over 17 years. 2 kids that we both adore.
> 
> I had a ons about 10 years ago. I have also kissed another man 5 years ago and only ended it when he was transferred.
> 
> Is there a way to end this behavior?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think most of us are in the other boat (the one for spouses who have been cheated on) and so we are supporters of your husband. I'm not sure how much help I can be. But have you tried counseling?


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## Vanguard

Lost at sea said:


> I am 41. We have been married for over 17 years. 2 kids that we both adore.
> 
> I had a ons about 10 years ago. I have also kissed another man 5 years ago and only ended it when he was transferred.
> 
> Is there a way to end this behavior?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not without serious, serious counseling with a therapist who isn't a liberal. 

Which is extremely rare, believe me.

Find a Christian therapist who went to Lipscomb.


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## Cdelta02

how about you start with the full unedited story first.


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## jnj express

You need to find a good IC, to help you fix yourself----you need to get another job---as when D, you still are gonna have to share custody, and support yourself, and your kids

Don't run off and date new men----lay low, and try to retake control of your life, which you have allowed to spiral out of control for a long time now

In time, you should be able to go out in the world, and start over-------but 1st you MUST fix what allowed you to destroy your own kids/H/mge.


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## Lost at sea

Nottoo sure ehere to start. I enjoy being with my hubby. He is the best person i know. But somewhere along the line my needs came first. I have been selfish. I like attention too much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

Let's be painfully honest. This affair didn't end because you realized the error of your ways and were remorseful. Your husband had to catch you. You not only put your marriage and family at risk but also your job because you had an affair with a guy at work. 
You didn't want to talk to your husband about the affair or the marriage before he caught you. Why would he be interested in talking to you, now? If you hadn't been caught, you'd still be in this affair. What could you say that would change the facts? You aren't sorry. You were just caught. If you were sorry, you would have ended this on your own. How long did this affair go on and when did the OM transition between being your preferred lover and being an idiot? 
You liked pretending to be single and if there's any justice you'll get to be single full-time for real.


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## keko

So now you also kissed a man 5 years ago.

You're not fooling us or Malcolm, you're only fooling yourself by keeping these a secret.


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## bryanp

You compare your husband going out and playing in a basketball league with you having a sexual affair with another man behind his back and putting your husband at risk for STD's and continuing the sexual affair after being caught. I must ask you are you crazy? How in the world could you even equate the two?

You destroyed your husband's self-esteem, manhood and self-respect with your behavior and humiliated him in the absolute worst possible way and you have the nerve to equate this with him playing basketball. Your statement is absolutely demeaning outrageous and insulting to your husband and to the intelligence of everyone on this board.


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## keko

Are the kids father Malcolm or one of your affair partners?


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## Lost at sea

I only said how he worked out his rut by playing basketball while i cheated. I was only trying to get at the fact that he had good habits and was true to me while i was doing something much worse. There is no comparing the two things in any way that is good to me. But i want to be honest. Its what it is and i wish that wasnt the case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jonesey

Lost at sea said:


> I am 41. We have been married for over 17 years. 2 kids that we both adore.
> 
> I had a ons about 10 years ago. I have also kissed another man 5 years ago and only ended it when he was transferred.
> 
> *Is there a way to end this behavior?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yea´s by starting to be honest. Other wise this will all be point less.


One suggestion for you as a start to solve you´r problem..

Take all the time you need, before you post YOU`R side of the story... And we all take it from there.. I´m not trying to be a rude A-HOLE. But all up to now.You some how at time´s sound like a not so sincere drama queen


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## Vanguard

Lost at sea said:


> Nottoo sure ehere to start. I enjoy being with my hubby. He is the best person i know. But somewhere along the line my needs came first. I have been selfish. I like attention too much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you saying that you cannot be relied upon to conduct self-discipline? 

If so, are you willing to relinquish your freedom to ensure that you behave like a person? 

Because if you really want to make the marriage work, that is what you'll have to do.


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## jnj express

I know everyone here has a right to say what you want-----but give this lady a break

I have blasted away at her, as much as anyone----but she HAS come here asking for HELP---she already knows she is terrible, and a mess--------give her a break, and try to help her, she is already down, she doesn't need to be kicked any more.


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## Lost at sea

I will give malcolm a dna test for our kids if he needs me to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I got this

Lost at sea said:


> Is there a way to end this behavior?


Yea. Control yourself.


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## Vanguard

Lost at sea said:


> I will give malcolm a dna test for our kids if he needs me to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm curious to know what you believe deep down. How likely is it that these children are someone else's?


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## Lost at sea

They are one hundred percent his. But i will take a test to prove it to him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost at sea

I will also call him anywhere at any time to let him knoe where i am at all times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Summer4744

Lost, do you only love your husband because he was a good provider and you knew he was reliable? I know you will probably say no.

But what if you won the lottery and was now rich? You could live on some tropical island and date whoever you wanted to, would you still feel anything for Malcom beyond the fact that he is a good dad?


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## Vanguard

Lost at sea said:


> They are one hundred percent his. But i will take a test to prove it to him
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please think carefully and be honest about this. There's no such thing as brownie points or perceived rapport here at TAM.


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## unbelievable

Help? Ok. Learn from your mistakes and if you're ever given the chance to hold someone's heart again in marriage, put the marriage, the family, and your partner's interests before your own. If your partner does the same, you'll be in great shape. 
Every day is a new beginning and new clean slate.


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## keko

Lost at sea said:


> I will also call him anywhere at any time to let him knoe where i am at all times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're way past that point.

You've deceived him too many times for far too long.

Accept his decision and spend your time fixing yourself.


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## AlphaHalf

Focus on improving yourself positively and move on. Maybe you'll get it right with the next man you decide to have a REAL relationship with.


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## Jonesey

jnj express said:


> I know everyone here has a right to say what you want-----but give this lady a break
> 
> I have blasted away at her, as much as anyone----but she HAS come here asking for HELP---she already knows she is terrible, and a mess--------give her a break, and try to help her, she is already down, she doesn't need to be kicked any more.



WTF

I have given here a break.. But she is dodging my suggestion to her.. It kinda gives the impression that she might not trying to take this seriously...

DNA test. I will call let him now where i am and so on..

Yeas that will fix the problem..


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## Openminded

Forget about Malcolm for a moment. He has his own road to travel and his decisions are his to make.

You need to work on *you*. You have children and you are their mom. Their only mom. You need to be a better person for yourself and for them.

So quit trying to figure out how to make Malcolm let you stay. And heal yourself so you don't repeat this in your next relationship.


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## nunikit

I'm not attempting to put you on the defensive in any way.... But after reading your postings I sense a lot of shame and bewilderment? It's almost as if you enjoy the affair, but not the fallout from getting caught. I don't blame you, but why stay married if it's preventing you from being honorable? 

My question is for you. Do you love yourself? Like really and truly just adore YOU? My suspicion is that you don't and that sucks for you and anyone else that loves you. 

You cannot be happy living a shame-based existence and looking for your escape with other people. Men or women. You will not find true peace and happiness attached to a hard-on. Sorry, it's more complicated than that. 

Your happiness has to come from you and living in your integrity. If nothing else your children, need to see you as a woman and mother that fills them with pride and love for being a part of you.. and how amazing you CAN be. 

I can't speak for your husband, I'm not a man that has been cheated on. But I am a woman that has been cheated on, and I ended the relationship with a major sense of urgency. Why, because he wasn't willing to respect boundaries and that's not a path I am willing to walk on. No. Thank. You.


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## jim123

Lost,

Malcom has been posting for three months now. During this time you have not talked with him. You have lied and in the end chose OM over him. You were moving to OM's office to be with him.

Due to Malcolm's exposure you found out the real OM. Only because your relationship with the OM went south, you are back to Malcolm.

How do you address this to Malcolm.

What do you say to Malcolm after not wanting to be truthfull before.

Is not Malcolm plan B. What happens when the next plan A comes along.


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## Openminded

You now have your own thread. I was under the impression Malcolm didn't want you posting on his? If that's correct, post on your own.

Are you in counseling?


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## gbonham77

and now everybody is helping this cheater to get the confidence back, to try get malcolm back to her, to make malcolm forgive and to have the reconcilliation, typical of TAM people. SHAME


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## JustSomeGuyWho

First, I think you need to try the best you can to put yourself in his shoes. I haven't read Malcom's thread but I think this holds true of many BS. You didn't just date other men, you had sex with them. You are his wife and he trusted you. You didn't just have sex with them, you lied and deceived him to do it. You flirted and said things to other men that you didn't say to him. While he was being faithful because he loves you and promised to be there through thick and thin, you decide that other men are better able to fullfill your needs. He is likely humiliated, emasculated, angry, confused, sad ... and a lot of other negative emotions. He visualizes you having sex with these men and it is like a porn movie in his mind and you are the star. From his perspective, you didn't give him or your marriage a second thought while you were doing it. He wonders why if he is such a good man, this other man was better. To him, your marriage was a lie. Your love for him was a lie.

I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm really not. I'm saying this because in order to have remorse you need to understand what you have done to him. Not what you did to yourself. Not that he discovered your secret. Remorse for tearing down this person you supposedly love who cared for you and provided for you and you doing it in the worst possible way.

I think understanding this is the only way to start the process of fixing yourself and becoming the person you need to be. Not just for the hope of reconciling with him but so that you stop repeating this pattern of behavior. Work on yourself; it is your only chance.


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## unbelievable

True remorse doesn't look like somebody trying to talk their victim into more opportunities for victimization. It would look like someone genuinely sorry and fully cognizant of the fact they don't deserve a second chance. 
No part of you is even slightly a victim. If your husband takes your kids and boots you down the road, penniless, you will only be receiving fair wages you've worked long and hard to earn. You have no reason to complain and no cause to be pitied. Start from that posture and maybe you'll have something to work with.


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## gbonham77

one more thing, never to say anymore that he is your husband. HE IS NOT YOUR HUSBAND ANYMORE


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## foolme2x

Lost at sea said:


> Why do i do these things to begin with? I think some of it id loving attention. It made me feel young again. My husband is a good man and good provider. I think we just got a little bored with everyday life and disconnected a bit.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? A little bored and disconnected? Maybe the fact that you were actively pursuing other men throughout your marriage contributed to that somewhat...



Openminded said:


> You need to work on *you*. You have children and you are their mom. Their only mom. You need to be a better person for yourself and for them.
> 
> So quit trying to figure out how to make Malcolm let you stay. And heal yourself so you don't repeat this in your next relationship.


This is so on the mark. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you truly want to change the path you're on. It will only work if you want it for yourself; not because you're desperate to hold onto your marriage. You have to be willing to accept that it might be over and not let it deter you from your path. 

IC might help; there may be events from your childhood or young adult years that shed light on what allowed you to make bad choices. These are NOT excuses for your behavior, though.

I'm concerned when I read your posts...it's often hard to communicate exactly how you feel in print, but what I've read so far fits the cliche "a mile wide but an inch deep". There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of introspection on your part yet, which is kind of weird, since your D Day was last summer if I recall correctly. Anyway, it just strikes me as odd, since your husband seems to put a lot of thought into what he says. So it all comes across as somewhat disingenuous, as maybe a last shot at holding on to him when your other options have evaporated.


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## gbonham77

they are not her children anymore, she is out of the family


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## nevergveup

Lost at sea said:


> Nottoo sure ehere to start. I enjoy being with my hubby. He is the best person i know. But somewhere along the line my needs came first. I have been selfish. I like attention too much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry,but your husband is done.Hes one of those people that can never fully trust you again.He would always be wondering if your being faithful if you two ever got back together.Funny you don't say you love him,just best person and being with him.

Well sexually you didn't like being with him.Time after time and over the years,your kids and husband came second and third.
You came first,now hes putting you last.Sorry you've ripped
out his heart and he has none left to use with you.

We get old and bored,but we divorce before we ever cheat.
Sorry but you need lots of IC and please don't commit to
any relationship until your fixed.


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## gbonham77

nevergveup said:


> sorry,but your husband is done.hes one of those people that can never fully trust you again.he would always be wondering if your being faithful if you two ever got back together.funny you don't say you love him,just best person and being with him.
> 
> Well sexually you didn't like being with him.time after time and over the years,your kids and husband came second and third.
> You came first,now hes putting you last.sorry you've ripped
> out his heart and he has none left to use with you.
> 
> *we get old and bored,but we divorce before we ever cheat*.
> Sorry but you need lots of ic and please don't commit to
> any relationship until your fixed.


agree


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## illwill

Welcome. We can always use more remorseful waywards. Are you remorseful? Because it does seem like there is something missing in your story. Bottom line. Your hubby did the right thing. I left my wife after cheating and never entertained a second chance-at least he gave you a chance and you ruined that. It was a chance you did not deserve.

Leave him alone.

You have treated him in a selfish manner and the only way to fix that is to treat him unselfishly. If you love him you will allow him to move on from this nightmare. And please do get therapy. If you can, try to stick around. You are getting hammered but really it is a trail by fire, which will past. There are good people here who you can learn and grow from.


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## gbonham77

she deserves to be hurt this is the consequence, ouh so we have defense lawyer here for this cheating lady. justify.... justify


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## JCD

*SUMMARY OF MALCOM'S THREAD*

Here is a synopsis of the full story. I do this because Lost isn't a professional writer (nor am I) and has no idea what relevant information is needed for us to begin to comment intelligently. Plus she might have left a few things out...

These excerpts are from her husband's thread:



> In the spring of 2012 my wife was on a work trip to another part of the country for a week for a conference. Standard stuff as this has happened many times before. When she returned she seemed rather unlike herself, but I didn't put much thought into it at the time as we are both busy .
> 
> The BOMB was dropped on July 4th. Her phone went off when she was in the shower,It was a text message that said "What color underwear are you wearing today?". When she got out I asked her what the hell that was all about. Initially she told me it was a joke a friend was playing on her.
> 
> Since I'm not 3 years old I asked her to try again. That is when she told me that she had slept with a co-worker on the trip, and that they had had sex one other time the week after she returned. Happy 4th everyone!
> 
> She told me that she was sorry and that she wanted to keep it a secret forever, but that the guilt was too much for her to take. Especially after seeing me take the girls out for a day on the town the day before. What does that even mean exactly, who knows? Rather odd considering I actually had to confront her to get the information.
> 
> So in hindsight I think this is where I really kind of messed up, as I pretty much forgave her and didn't do very much other than try to move on. She has been more affectionate, and I have kept track of her communications and travels and don't have a reason to think things have continued. Boy toy is located in another office some 250 miles away, so the day to day thing would have been difficult to continue.


So this is D-Day. She promised to be a good girl and sin no more.

Malcom is very angry, won't go to Christmas with some in-laws he despises, and starts to try to keep track of his suddenly untrustworthy wife.

So after Christmas, this happened.



> Last night I sat the wife down and told her that I needed to know everything. She hesitated a bit, but I said that if we weren't to get divorced in 2013 she had to lay it on the line right now. Oddly enough 2 times was actually over a year. 10 times total. I had her write out the dates for me.
> 
> The OM is located 250 miles away, but is in town about once a month. I asked her why she was willing to be an escort to a guy 4 hours away once a month when she had a husband at home. Didn't get a straight answer to that, not that I was expecting one.
> 
> I told her I needed her to write down her passwords for her e-mail accounts (work and home). She said that was an invasion of her privacy. I mentioned that in order for the marriage to work her privacy was secondary. She was angry at that point and said that I didn't even want to try to work things out and that I was punishing her.
> 
> Reading this forum the last few days I sort of anticipated this happening. I'm not particularly bright obviously, but I am perceptive. So I had already booked a hotel room nearby (about 6 blocks away) and told her she was going to have to stay there for a while to think about if she was serious about saving our marriage.
> 
> She was really upset and was yelling at me about kicking her out onto the street, and that I didn't love her. I told her that it's only BECAUSE I love her that I'm doing this. If I didn't I would just file tomorrow.
> 
> So she has until Sunday morning to let me know if she will be giving me the passwords and full name of her lover, and his marital status. She will also have to write a NC letter that is e-mailed in front of me. Any other additional measures I need to have done at the time will be taken then as well. If her answer is no then we can start the divorce process next week as the New Year starts.
> 
> I love her, but I won't live like this. It's me or it's him. And if it's me, she has to prove it. If it's him, I will immediately go into protective mode to legally obtain custody of my children.



Ugh! This is going to run for PAGES if I don't summarize.

So...right after new years, and sending a NC email, she gets a call, and chats with her boyfriend in the bathroom, telling hubby it was 'closure'. He loses it, asks her what part of NC doesn't she understand, and goes to his brother's. She calls him 30 times.

Lost at Sea wants to be a good married wife...but still wants to stay in contact with 'her friend' because 'he is a good man.' 

Malcom isn't buying this. He threw her out, filed for divorce and asked for custody of the kids.

Her 'friend' arranged her transfer to his location 250 miles away, so wifey said 'the kids should stay here for now while I find myself'. She ACCEPTED the transfer...and one assumes moved (this is on January 30th)

Malcom also revealed their relationship to their work.



> She also stated to me that she always thought she would be able to get back into my life when this fling was done because she thought I'd always be there for her. But I am too selfish to really show her that I care, and that I'll always be selfish.
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> I could be wrong of course, but I do think that perhaps getting nailed by a co-worker while wearing my wedding ring might put her higher on the selfish ratings chart than my not wanting to be BFF's with her right now. But maybe I'm just too cold to see how mean I am.


Sorry, this was so funny, I had to post it in it's entirety.

So..February 7th, .Malcom REsent the affair info to the CEO and her and loverboy were put on 6 weeks of unpaid leave.

Lost drove the 250 miles from loverboy's place (? Did you actually move in with him Lost?) so she could spend time with her daughters. Not sure if she's been doing that since the end of January.

I am adding this fact to point out that this is a mitigating factor in the whole 'she never cared about her children'. Sometimes you need to make choices which aren't in the childrens tip top best interest to fulfill other important interests (LaS...warming another man's bed is NOT 'another important interest')

On Feb 23, she has 'the Talk' with Malcom. "I'm sorry, I made a mistake." He isn't buying it.

Malcom let her move back into his home for March while she found her own place. She is out on April 1st according to him. He isn't talking to her. One presumes she moved BACK from Loveless Texas to be closer to her family. When is unclear.

Malcom on his wife as a mother:



> I think of my ex as being a good mother. She was certainly distracted for the last number of months, but even in that phase she was at least half-azzed about her duties as opposed to completely negligent. She doesn't deserve an award of valor for that, but I'm not going to punish my daughters by fighting to keep their mother out of their lives.


So...there is Malcom's side. It fills in a few holes in the story.


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## JCD

Here are a number of questions I have.

1) Did you continue to have sex with this man after your husband's D Day but before he left on New Years? Malcom said it was 10 times over the course of a year. After you promised to be good, did you continue to do more than call each other?

2) Not sure about most companies, but long range transfers USUALLY take some time to set up. And yet it seems as if Your Husband's Replacement arranged this...very fast. Were you planning on walking away from your husband in advance or is this a reaction to your husband's actions?

3) Did you actually move in with him? When did the cracks in that relationship appear, before or after you were fired? 

4) Short term, I know you left the kids with Malcom (middle of the school year and you didn't have a place to live). What were your long term plans regarding the kids?

5) At what point in your relationship with Malcom did you consider it 'over' i.e. time to start to set up full time house with OM?

6) Ten years ago, you had a one night stand with another man. Five years ago, you were, from the sounds of it, regularly making out with another man and probably would have gone all the way eventually if he hadn't transfered out. What was similar with all these men that you were attracted to THEM and not your husband? Did you work with all of them? Was it physical attractiveness? Personality type? Status or money? Do you find yourself hanging around men more at work or women?

7) Your husband tells you you are pretty. Your POS affair partner says the same. Why did you belive the later more than the former? 

I'm sure more questions will come up to me.

Oh...and did POS get fired? I really hope you know...but don't you dare call him just to find out.


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## Malaise

JCD said:


> Here are a number of questions I have.
> 
> 1) Did you continue to have sex with this man after your husband's D Day but before he left on New Years? Malcom said it was 10 times over the course of a year. After you promised to be good, did you continue to do more than call each other?
> 
> 2) Not sure about most companies, but long range transfers USUALLY take some time to set up. And yet it seems as if Your Husband's Replacement arranged this...very fast. Were you planning on walking away from your husband in advance or is this a reaction to your husband's actions?
> 
> 3) Did you actually move in with him? When did the cracks in that relationship appear, before or after you were fired?
> 
> 4) Short term, I know you left the kids with Malcom (middle of the school year and you didn't have a place to live). What were your long term plans regarding the kids?
> 
> 5) At what point in your relationship with Malcom did you consider it 'over' i.e. time to start to set up full time house with OM?
> 
> 6) Ten years ago, you had a one night stand with another man. Five years ago, you were, from the sounds of it, regularly making out with another man and probably would have gone all the way eventually if he hadn't transfered out. What was similar with all these men that you were attracted to THEM and not your husband? Did you work with all of them? Was it physical attractiveness? Personality type? Status or money? Do you find yourself hanging around men more at work or women?
> 
> 7) Your husband tells you you are pretty. Your POS affair partner says the same. Why did you belive the later more than the former?
> 
> I'm sure more questions will come up to me.
> 
> Oh...and did POS get fired? I really hope you know...but don't you dare call him just to find out.


All of these are good questions Lost and if you want to have any credibility from anyone here you should answer them truthfully. And completely.

If you don't...

Then how can you get help for yourself? You have to be willing to be honest about your past, even it it's painful.

And Malcom certainly deserves to know as well. If there's a snowball's chance in hell of R you must tell him.


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## Spiderman

I would suggest counseling and not getting into long term relationship until you have solved your issues. Probably with Malcolm you have to accept that there are consequences of your actions and you have to take the responsibility and respect what ever his decision is.
I don't want to judge because I don't know the exact situation. I believe there are many people out there who happen to fall in love with someone else once in a while (while being married) but they make a conscious decision to not start anything there because they realize how bad the consequences will be. It is quite unrealistic to assume that the affair will not come out. After a while the crush will pass if you don't encourage it. It is easier to tell than do but that's the way to go.


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## Doc Who

Lost,
You need a lot of help. As others have pointed out, but it is worth repeating, quit trying to save a marriage that you killed a long time ago and start saving yourself. All you have been doing is killing yourself and your family through your horrific decisions. You really need to get healthy, not just for you, but your girls. They deserve a Mom who, frankly, doesn't do the things you so easily choose to do. Do you really think it was in their best interest to run away with your OM???

And please, if you really want to be honest, try to figure out why you want Malcolm so much NOW, after being dumped by OM, and not before? Face it, you only turned back to him once you were rejected by both men and have no other option right now. Are you reaching out to the good guy (your husband) in desperation, but that is not really where you want to be?

Can you consider that you nature will be to find another affair partner soon to attempt to fill this void in your soul and what that would do to Malcolm yet again should he chose to offer yet another chance at R??

You are not safe to yourself or to him. So please, let this desperate attempt to cling to a dead marriage pass. Heal yourself. Then worry about future relationships. You have killed this one. Let it rest in peace.


----------



## Wazza

gbonham77 said:


> she deserves to be hurt this is the consequence, ouh so we have defense lawyer here for this cheating lady. justify.... justify


Reported to mods. You are harassing her.


----------



## Shoshan1290

bryanp said:


> You compare your husband going out and playing in a basketball league with you having a sexual affair with another man behind his back and putting your husband at risk for STD's and continuing the sexual affair after being caught. I must ask you are you crazy? How in the world could you even equate the two?
> 
> You destroyed your husband's self-esteem, manhood and self-respect with your behavior and humiliated him in the absolute worst possible way and you have the nerve to equate this with him playing basketball. Your statement is absolutely demeaning outrageous and insulting to your husband and to the intelligence of everyone on this board.


Why are you trying to ream her out? She came here for advice -- not for you to attack her. And to be clear she wasn't comparing what he did to what she did. She stated that HE joined a basketball league and she started sleeping with/flirting with other men.

The only thing insulting the intelligence of this board is you trying to start up a bandwagon of hate. Chill out.


----------



## Shoshan1290

I'm actually sort of irritated that the lot of people posting on this thread (with a few exceptions). It's like a gang of schoolyard bullies standing around the OP chanting "Crucify, Crucify!"

I love how it's being said that she is not truly remorseful, that she deserves what she's getting, etc. Maybe that's true. Maybe it's not. None of you have any way of telling that, first of all. Secondly what business is it of yours? She came here asking for help and advice. Whether or not she heeds it is her own business. I find it sickening that a group of adults can band around someone who is seeking help and offer them absolutely no counsel.

So before this thread moves any further let me say a few things.


YES she cheated. We've got that.
She's here for help -- not for entitled internet users to remind her of how awful she is. She's got a good grip on it already.

If you can't say something constructive or offer any guidance to the OP, why open your mouth? Click another thread and move on.


----------



## Wazza

Lost..glad you started your own thread.

No gentle way to say this. You are a mess right now. You have work to do. 

So.....

First it was the current OM once or twice, then it was more frequent, then it was leaving Malcolm for OM, then it was OM plus a one night stand ten years ago, then it was OM plus ONS plus another guy you kissed five years ago......

How much more to come?

This is what they call trickle truth. You keep releasing facts. My wife did it. I have read that waywards commonly do it.

As a betrayed spouse, I tell you it is poison. You try to rebuild and WHACK!!! Another kick to the nads.

So get it all out there. Clear the air.

Why not just hide it and carry your secret? Two reasons. First, where has lying got you so far? Second, a BS digs. We become obsessed with uncovering the truth. You CANNOT tell a lie good enough to erase all doubt. And when a lie gets exposed, it just reinforces the notion you cannot be trusted.

I can write a lot more on this, but please, just trust me....clear out the lies.

Second, worry about your kids. You were willing to leave them to be with OM. That is pretty horrible. Imagine if one day they learn you made that decision. So you have work to do there.

Reconciliation with Malcolm. I assume you will follow his thread, though not post. So you know what I wrote there and I meant it. But here is the other side of the coin. Malcolm loved you once. You destroyed it. I would be very surprised if you don't end up divorced. But that is not the end. You have kids together, so you will interact. He MAY decide to give it another shot if you do serious penance to demonstrate a deep change. May. But not for a while, I think.

I say this not as an attack, but as food for thought. Your words are only a part of you, and are all I have to go on. But they say to me they are concerned about how your life has diminished as a result of your affair. I don't see that you truly get what you have done to Malcolm and your kids. Sadly you need to get that. Sad because if you are mariage material, when you really grasp what you have done I think it will really hurt you. But you have to face it.

So...is there more you need to tell?


----------



## BURNT KEP

unbelievable said:


> Let's be painfully honest. This affair didn't end because you realized the error of your ways and were remorseful. Your husband had to catch you. You not only put your marriage and family at risk but also your job because you had an affair with a guy at work.
> You didn't want to talk to your husband about the affair or the marriage before he caught you. Why would he be interested in talking to you, now? If you hadn't been caught, you'd still be in this affair. What could you say that would change the facts? You aren't sorry. You were just caught. If you were sorry, you would have ended this on your own. How long did this affair go on and when did the OM transition between being your preferred lover and being an idiot?
> You liked pretending to be single and if there's any justice you'll get to be single full-time for real.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## sweetpea

Posters,

Please give constructive advice to OP. She is asking for support not to be called names. Perhaps some posters shouldn't be responding to OP if they can't separate their own issues from OP's situation. Treating others with respect and dignity is #1 rule on TAM.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Lost at sea said:


> I will also call him anywhere at any time to let him knoe where i am at all times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please dont punish yourself like this.


----------



## eric415

Lost at sea said:


> I will give malcolm a dna test for our kids if he needs me to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not sure if this has been said as I am replying immediately after reading it. 

As a recently BS, YOU NEED TO DO THESE THINGS AND NOT WAIT TO HAVE MALCOLM ASK. That's in capitals because I'm YELLING. if you want any chance to have him again you have to take the initiative. You took the initiative when you had sex with other men, now take the initiative to get what you want again. And stop acting like a victim of your own decisions. Step up and take ownership. 

The worst thing my W did was continue to lie and deceive and not take any action on her own. I don't want to tell her what to do, she has to figure this out on her own. You coming to TAM is a big step. I'm not advocating for Malcolm to take you back, but I'm not in your relationship and I don't know either of you. The best you could do now is fix yourself for yourself and your children.


----------



## EI

Shoshan1290 said:


> I'm actually sort of irritated that the lot of people posting on this thread (with a few exceptions). It's like a gang of schoolyard bullies standing around the OP chanting "Crucify, Crucify!"
> 
> So before this thread moves any further let me say a few things.
> 
> YES she cheated. We've got that.
> She's here for help -- not for entitled internet users to remind her of how awful she is. She's got a good grip on it already.
> 
> If you can't say something constructive or offer any guidance to the OP, why open your mouth? Click another thread and move on.





sweetpea said:


> Posters,
> 
> Please give constructive advice to OP. She is asking for support not to be called names. Perhaps some posters shouldn't be responding to OP if they can't separate their own issues from OP's situation. Treating others with respect and dignity is #1 rule on TAM.


:iagree:

Here's the deal! When a WS starts a thread it's going to bring strong emotions out in everyone.... and, especially painful ones for others who have been betrayed. If the BS of the WS is also posting, then there is already an understandable sense of camaraderie and support for them. Malcolm is a much respected poster and I think that everyone who has read his story is understandably sympathetic towards him.... as they should be.

BUT, and this applies to any thread where a WS is posting..... if a WS post their story and they are treated with nothing but contempt, their character is assassinated over and over, they are called vile names, they are told that they deserve only to be punished, and have no value as a person to anyone, etc, etc, etc,.......... then, WHAT IS THEIR MOTIVATION FOR POSTING???? THEY WON'T SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO IT. They will stop posting.... and, what will anyone have gained from that???

If the OP's (any OP... not this one in particular) motivation for posting is not what they claim it to be, that will become apparent fairly quickly. Then, if you don't think you can add something useful to a situation, find another thread where you believe you can. If you are not interested in "helping," whether the WS is genuinely remorseful or not, (as many posters have stated on other threads.... they don't care if the WS is remorseful... they have no use for them, anyway,) then why bother posting on a WS's thread? Because, if your motivation is _only_ to project your anger onto them.... again, I ask..... WHY WOULD THEY SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO IT??? They won't. Then, who gets any benefit from it? And, we are here to help, right?

If every single WS is nothing more than a selfish, narcissistic person with no integrity whatsoever.... then, why on Earth would you expect them to unselfishly offer themselves up to be the whipping post of some anonymous stranger on TAM?

Finally, even if you believe that this OP is insincere and has no redeeming value, whatsoever, she is still the mother of Malcolm's children. Meaning, he will have to co-parent with her for several years to come... whether they ultimately reconcile or choose to divorce. So, would it not be in *his* best interest for TAM members to try to offer up something with positive benefits, direction and value to his WS, so that she might acquire the understanding and tools to become a better person, rather than trying to destroy what's left of her??? 

That rant applies only to a very small number of posters. Most of you are absolutely amazing and your collective wisdom has been instrumental in helping so many people who are coping with infidelity whether they reconcile or not. I know that B1 and I would not be where we are, today, in our reconciliation, without the support and wisdom that we have received from so many of you.


----------



## eric415

EI said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Here's the deal! When a WS starts a thread it's going to bring strong emotions out in everyone.... and, especially painful ones for others who have been betrayed. If the BS of the WS is also posting, then there is already an understandable sense of camaraderie and support for them. Malcolm is a much respected poster and I think that everyone who has read his story is understandably sympathetic towards him.... as they should be.
> 
> BUT, and this applies to any thread where a WS is posting..... if a WS post their story and they are treated with nothing but contempt, their character is assassinated over and over, they are called vile names, they are told that they deserve only to be punished, and have no value as a person to anyone, etc, etc, etc,.......... then, WHAT IS THEIR MOTIVATION FOR POSTING???? THEY WON'T SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO IT. They will stop posting.... and, what will anyone have gained from that???
> 
> If the OP's (any OP... not this one in particular) motivation for posting is not what they claim it to be, that will become apparent fairly quickly. Then, if you don't think you can add something useful to a situation, find another thread where you believe you can. If you are not interested in "helping," whether the WS is genuinely remorseful or not, (as many posters have stated on other threads.... they don't care if the WS is remorseful... they have no use for them, anyway,) then why bother posting on a WS's thread? Because, if your motivation is _only_ to project your anger onto them.... again, I ask..... WHY WOULD THEY SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO IT??? They won't. Then, who gets any benefit from it? And, we are here to help, right?
> 
> If every single WS is nothing more than a selfish, narcissistic person with no integrity whatsoever.... then, why on Earth would you expect them to unselfishly offer themselves up to be the whipping post of some anonymous stranger on TAM?
> 
> Finally, even if you believe that this OP is insincere and has no redeeming value, whatsoever, she is still the mother of Malcolm's children. Meaning, he will have to co-parent with her for several years to come... whether they ultimately reconcile or choose to divorce. So, would it not be in *his* best interest for TAM members to try to offer up something with positive benefits, direction and value to his WS, so that she might acquire the understanding and tools to become a better person, rather than trying to destroy what's left of her???
> 
> That rant applies only to a very small number of posters. Most of you are absolutely amazing and your collective wisdom has been instrumental in helping so many people who are coping with infidelity whether they reconcile or not. I know that B1 and I would not be where we are, today, in our reconciliation, without the support and wisdom that we have received from so many of you.


:iagree::iagree:

As a recent BS, I get excited when a WS posts not becuase I want to tear them down, but I want to try and understand what was going through their head when they made these decisions. It helps me get more of an understanding of all of this. Tearing down the WS does not help. Yes, I'm angry and read some of Lost's posts and cursed out loud, but constructive help is the only way to go. You can criticize and be constructive at the same time. At least she has the fortitude to come on here and subjective herself to us. I can't say the same for my STBEXW.

EDIT: I can understand other posters anger as Lost opened this thread with being much less than honest with us regarding the nature of her affairs. What we read in Malcolm's does not jive with what she opened with it and it felt like she was either lying or minimizing it. Those actions bring up bad emotions in BS's. She needs to be 100% honest in this thread and not assume everyone has read everything in Malcolm's. I think the lying and deceit is way worse than the sleeping with someone else.


----------



## Headspin

sweetpea said:


> Posters,
> 
> Please give constructive advice to OP. She is asking for support not to be called names. Perhaps some posters shouldn't be responding to OP if they can't separate their own issues from OP's situation. Treating others with respect and dignity is #1 rule on TAM.


Can I just ask if you deleted a post of mine an hour or so ago?

One that was a passing comment / question? upon the difficulty of people empathizing sympathizing with a wayward spouse. 

It had no direct comment on the OP in this thread.

It was negative in absolutely NO WAY at all

Did you delete that?


----------



## sandc

I think she's shell shocked at the moment. At the rate these questions are being asked, we'll be lucky if she can answer even one.


----------



## thatgirll007

Lost - just because you cheated and may have effectively lost any chance of being married to Malcolm does not mean that your life has to end.

I say this to you as a betrayed spouse.

I don't think you fully grasp what you've done to Malcolm and what it takes to make a marriage work. But don't worry, that can come with time, granted you might have to apply this knowledge in new or different relationships in the future instead of the one you want to save now.

Here's a thought: When your life is over, what do you want people to say about you?

What can you do now to make that a reality? 

If I were you, I would focus on these things. I would make a list of the things I want to be - outside of married to Malcolm. Like for instance:

1.) A Good Mom
2.) Financially Responsible
3.) An excellent friend
4.) A reliable daughter
5.) A cheerful, optimistic person

And then I'd list what I could do right now to make these things happen. Like:

For goal 1:
a.) Pick up my kids from school everyday
b.) Talk to my kids about my mistakes
c.) Establish visitation/custody time with Malcolm

For goal 5:
a.) Exercise or do yoga every day
b.) Write in a journal every day
c.) See a counselor

You can make better choices and a better life for yourself, but you have to do the work, Lost.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## Madman1

Next time you see Malcolm remember to smile, oh and make sure your shoes match!
Try to paint your fingernails in that shade that Malcolm likes.
You go girl!


----------



## nunikit

I don't have a long history here, and know only what's been posted in this thread to clarify this story. 

My ex cheated on me, I don't have physical evidence. But my instincts, his behavior, the obvious signs all point to that. Was I angry, yep. Was I hurt, initially yes. Then I chose not to lower myself and participate in the **** he caused. Because I deserve peace and happiness and if he wants drama. Have it with another woman I'm out. 

Do I hate my ex? Not at all. We speak, raise our girls. Are we together? Hell no. My boundaries are non-negotiable, I cannot say the same for him unfortunately. 

I feel so much empathy for both parties involved in this mess. She seems very immature and self-absorbed at times. And I can relate to that. 

We really don't know what led up to all of this nonsense between them. But obviously it's not the first time in history. Just doing a quick search through this site and it's filled with sad/heartbreaking stories. I can relate to that. 

I really pray that these two and their children can get healed and move past this quickly. The thing that bothers me is nothing is being resolved, it's like a soap opera that won't turn off it seems. 

If I can find a way to get along with my ex, so two can these two. Otherwise what will their children learn?

Forgive me if I've stepped on toes, that's not my intent.


----------



## Madman1

nunikit,

Welcome to TAM, good post.
They are in the early stages of this and he is making what concessions he can for her overall well being, and their future as co parents.

He is divorcing her but helping her transition as needed. 

If you read Malcolm's post you should see that they will end up much like you and your ex, but he (like you) is done with her.

There is nothing in your post that should step on toes, she hopes for reconciliation, he is making it clear there will be none.


*Here is a link to his thread, should you like to see it.*

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ning-affair-i-asked-her-leave-without-me.html
.
.
.
.


----------



## waiwera

Lost - the thing to comes to mind here is that you need to demonstrate not convince your H of your remorse and willingness to change.

Words become meaningless when their has been lies and deceit.

I also think you should step back from him.. stop chasing him.. So he can stop and catch his breath.

I've read his posts...he does seem sure of his path. You need to accept whatever that is. Anything less will only add more angst and stress to his life. 

Use this time to get some counselling and learn why you've (repeatedly) done this...to your husband...and yourself. I do hope you can learn some new ways of living and loving... this is so painful for all involved. Very sad.


----------



## The-Deceived

Lost at sea said:


> Is there a way to end this behavior?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ahhhh, stop doing it? It kills me how WS's act as if though they are under some sort of mind control. The "fog" is bunk.

People have what's called "free will". Every single one of us has it. 

Nobody here can tell you how not to be a betrayer. You already are. The only choice you have now is whether or not to do it again.

I think your husband is a smart man to divorce you.


----------



## walkonmars

Before you can start to move in positive directions you have to get past the panic you find yourself in. Let's face it, you must be in a horrible panic - just a year ago things were apparently just fine (in YOUR little world) you had Malcolm and the OM, a good job, a family, and a decent reputation. less than 12 months later all that is gone. 

But really, regardless of how it felt, that was not a fulfilling life - you can start now to seek such a life. It will be a lot different from the life you once thought you'd lead when you first fell in love with Malcolm. You are literally in a transitory state - middle of your life, middle of a divorce, middle of a career. The paths you've chosen have led you here. You've made some good choices and many poor ones. 

Come to grips with the results of those choices. Seek some individual counseling with a competent counselor who is experienced and trained in addictive and self-destructive behavior. Re-read Nunikit and ThatGirl007's posts. They have good advice for bettering your future. 

Don't do things with the goal of reuniting with Malcolm - do things with the goal of becoming a better person. A person of integrity and honor, a good decision maker, a better mother, neighbor, friend and employee. All these are achievable goals. As you move toward these goals you will KNOW how to make amends, how to express real remorse to those that have been wronged. You will want to perform these actions because you NEED to for yourself not for anyone else's benefit. 

You can start to release your panic by counting your blessings.


----------



## The-Deceived

walkonmars said:


> Before you can start to move in positive directions you have to get past the panic you find yourself in. Let's face it, you must be in a horrible panic - just a year ago things were apparently just fine (in YOUR little world) you had Malcolm and the OM, a good job, a family, and a decent reputation. less than 12 months later all that is gone.
> 
> But really, regardless of how it felt, that was not a fulfilling life - you can start now to seek such a life. It will be a lot different from the life you once thought you'd lead when you first fell in love with Malcolm. You are literally in a transitory state - middle of your life, middle of a divorce, middle of a career. The paths you've chosen have led you here. You've made some good choices and many poor ones.
> 
> Come to grips with the results of those choices. Seek some individual counseling with a competent counselor who is experienced and trained in addictive and self-destructive behavior. Re-read Nunikit and ThatGirl007's posts. They have good advice for bettering your future.
> 
> Don't do things with the goal of reuniting with Malcolm - do things with the goal of becoming a better person. A person of integrity and honor, a good decision maker, a better mother, neighbor, friend and employee. All these are achievable goals. As you move toward these goals you will KNOW how to make amends, how to express real remorse to those that have been wronged. You will want to perform these actions because you NEED to for yourself not for anyone else's benefit.
> 
> You can start to release your panic by counting your blessings.


You're so kind-hearted and level-headed man. You certainly have a lot more compassion than me for WS's.


----------



## Malcolm38

I don't plan on posting a lot on my ex-wife's thread. But I did want to ask the favor of the responding to this thread to not be so harsh to my ex. 

It really is an odd feeling right now, since I'm the one that she slept around on. But I feel a need to actually defend her a little bit. Her behavior was abhorrent on so many levels during all of this. But I don't hate her. I hate what she has done, and she has hurt me like nobody else I've known. 

But I don't think she is evil. I appreciate the help she will be getting here, and I think the overall theme here will help her in the long run to understand how to reach some truths about herself. But I would ask kindly if people wouldn't be harsh with her. I personally get no enjoyment from witnessing that. 

If she were a horrible human being, this would actually be easier. I could easily put her in my rear view mirror and throw her to the wolves. But the fact is that she isn't a horrible human being. 

1. She is the Mother of my children. 

2. I've always been the serious one. She makes me laugh like nobody I know. I've missed my best friend over the past number of months. That's almost worse than losing my wife, if that makes sense. 

Has she betrayed me? Yes. Am I upset about it? Yes, very much so. Do I want to work on our marriage at this point? No, not really. But she isn't evil. 

Sorry...I've droned on too long and probably repeated myself a bit. I just wanted to make that point. 

Thanks


----------



## walkonmars

Malcolm38 said:


> .... But I did want to ask the favor of the responding to this thread to not be so harsh to my ex. ...


Lost-at-Sea
This is the type of decency & integrity you want to strive for.


----------



## workindad

thatgirll007 said:


> Lost - just because you cheated and may have effectively lost any chance of being married to Malcolm does not mean that your life has to end.
> 
> I say this to you as a betrayed spouse.
> 
> I don't think you fully grasp what you've done to Malcolm and what it takes to make a marriage work. But don't worry, that can come with time, granted you might have to apply this knowledge in new or different relationships in the future instead of the one you want to save now.
> 
> Here's a thought: When your life is over, what do you want people to say about you?
> 
> What can you do now to make that a reality?
> 
> If I were you, I would focus on these things. I would make a list of the things I want to be - outside of married to Malcolm. Like for instance:
> 
> 1.) A Good Mom
> 2.) Financially Responsible
> 3.) An excellent friend
> 4.) A reliable daughter
> 5.) A cheerful, optimistic person
> 
> And then I'd list what I could do right now to make these things happen. Like:
> 
> For goal 1:
> a.) Pick up my kids from school everyday
> b.) Talk to my kids about my mistakes
> c.) Establish visitation/custody time with Malcolm
> 
> For goal 5:
> a.) Exercise or do yoga every day
> b.) Write in a journal every day
> c.) See a counselor
> 
> You can make better choices and a better life for yourself, but you have to do the work, Lost.
> 
> Best of luck to you.



Very nice job TG007! I second the above.

Good luck LAS
WD


----------



## just got it 55

Lostatsea & Malcolm Not really into the God Thing But I always remember my Grandmother saying “the best thing God ever made was another Day”


----------



## Acabado

reubsky said:


> so the H defend her .. its ok. he still considers cheating woman a mother of their children who left kids and slept around


And the goal is?


----------



## Malcolm38

reubsky said:


> so the H defend her .. its ok. he still considers cheating woman a mother of their children who left kids and slept around


What I was getting at is that perhaps throwing negativity just for the sport of it isn't really all that helpful.


----------



## MattMatt

Acabado said:


> And the goal is?


That post was pulled. Odd. The typing was so reminiscent of someone else. Same naive use of punctuation marks, too! :rofl:


----------



## MattMatt

Malcolm38 said:


> What I was getting at is that perhaps throwing negativity just for the sport of it isn't really all that helpful.


Beware of the trolls...


----------



## TDSC60

Lost I have to note that you keep saying "you like attention" as the reason for your affairs. I would say you are addicted to the attention of other men. You seem to crave that and you must be cultivating that attention and actively seeking it.

In your case the old saying "Sex is the price women pay for attention" is certainly true.

I am not saying this to bash you. I think it is good that you recognize this. You asked how can you stop?

Well number one would be DO NOT FLIRT WITH A MAN WHO IS NOT YOUR HUSBAND. You have got to be giving these men signals with your behavior from the start to keep them interested.

My number two would be UNDERSTAND THAT CHEATING IS A CHOICE. IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT JUST HAPPENS. YOU CAN CHOOSE NOT TO CHEAT.

Like any addiction you can be in control if you choose to be.

Maybe IC would help you. But find one who specializes in addiction or preferably infidelity. Not just some IC who just wants to help you feel good about what you did.

I am sorry but I can not offer encouragement for getting Malcom38 to forgive you and stay with you. Every man has his limits and unfortunately you seem to have forced him over his limit.

Good luck with your effort to become a better woman and mother. I am truly sorry for all involved that it took the destruction of your family for you to realize that you need help on a personal level.


----------



## JCD

TDSC60,

Here is the problem. Men will take ANYTHING as a green light if they are interested.

Was walking with my sister in the mall. Suddenly notice two guys following us for 20 minutes trying to figure out how to approach her and ditch me (I guess they assumed I was the BF).

I asked what she did to lure them. "I just smiled at them."

Guys will find a response to their overtures if they want it bad enough.


----------



## jim123

The key is Lost chose OM over Malcolm. That is when Malcolm gave up. He was trying to R prior to that.


----------



## JCD

That said. Lost at Sea. Boundaries.

I also sought a lot of external validation from other women. Self esteem problems and what not. So, I worked on being content with myself.

I also realized that BEING wanted was enough of a compliment, certainly compared to the pain and loss I'd face if I required proof of their interest.

Plus male attention is a bit overemphasized. A vagina and a certain (low) measure of physical attractiveness is enough to catch many of their interest. Oh...and a willingness to put out.

That doesn't mean they think you are special. They just think you are available.

So these days I mentally keep thinking about my boundaries. I am not perfect, but I've gotten better at this.


----------



## illwill

Lost, if you are still reading, come back and post, it gets better. But, you will have to toughen up a bit, look at some of the other waywards and the reaction they first received when they got here, but they stayed, and got stronger and wiser. 

I posted a thread about waywards redeeming themselves by coming here and taking the blows, just to help strangers deal with the very same pain they gave their loved ones. There is great honor in that. 

I don't think most people change, but I think you can. Why? Because, let's be honest, you have a lot of room to improve. But, you have to want it. Desperately. Because it is so hard to actually pull it off long term. You need a support system to help you get there. You can have that here, but you have to be brave enough and honest enough to ask for it.

If you are still around maybe check out the Reconcilation thread there are good examples of redemption, and will give you hope, and maybe you can even PM one of them, if they are willing, they can talk to you privately. I am a betrayed and if my initial post to you was hurtful at all, I apologize.

Either way best wishes.


----------



## Malaise

jim123 said:


> The key is Lost chose OM over Malcolm. That is when Malcolm gave up. He was trying to R prior to that.


Right when she took that phone call in the bathroom and broke NC.

She had a slight chance before that. Her bad choice. But, it's what she wanted, no one forced her to do it.

Ultimately it's her choice to deep-six her marriage.

I don't blame Mal at that point for his reaction. That must have been, for him, a true WTF moment.

Lost, can you understand why you threw your marriage away then, basically over a phone call?

Or, did you not completely 'get' No Contact?

You need this for any future relationship.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Malcolm38 said:


> What I was getting at is that perhaps throwing negativity just for the sport of it isn't really all that helpful.


Some of you are too brutal. Yea, she screwed up big time. But when Malcolm has to post asking people not to be so rough, there's a problem. If there's anyone that should want to see LAS suffer our wrath, it's Malcolm and he's asking us not to be so vicious in our posts. We should all comply.


----------



## JCD

Malaise said:


> Right when she took that phone call in the bathroom and broke NC.
> 
> She had a slight chance before that. Her bad choice. But, it's what she wanted, no one forced her to do it.
> 
> Ultimately it's her choice to deep-six her marriage.
> 
> I don't blame Mal at that point for his reaction. That must have been, for him, a true WTF moment.
> 
> Lost, can you understand why you threw your marriage away then, basically over a phone call?
> 
> Or, did you not completely 'get' No Contact?
> 
> You need this for any future relationship.



1) Lost...you shouldn't have called him.

2) People slip up. It was a phone call. Not sex. A phone call.

But Lost...when I gave my word for NC, I kept it. This isn't an excuse.


----------



## Madman1

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Some of you are too brutal. Yea, she screwed up big time. But when Malcolm has to post asking people not to be so rough, there's a problem. If there's anyone that should want to see LAS suffer our wrath, it's Malcolm and he's asking us not to be so vicious in our posts. We should all comply.


.
.
.
*Wagging their tails behind them!*
.
.
.
.


----------



## ing

Dear Lost
Well done for posting. Many people can not bear this place because it holds up a mirror and in the mirror you will see someone you do not recognise.
You say you want your husband back. Your life. Your kids.
i understand this. It will not happen for you because there is a tiny window of opportunity for you to reconnect with Malcom. It is almost so tiny as to be impossible to achieve.
Your contempt for him will have to disparate before he is totally indifferent to you. Let me clarify that.
He may still love you. He may still in his deepest heart want you, but the every single word and action that you initiate will have an increasing effect good and bad. The loss he is feeling is incredible and he is out the door because you are giving him no choice.

You need to answer some questions for your self though.


*1. What was so good about this OM that made you want to leave not only Malcolm but your children and family behind?*



*2. Do you believe that the OM is a good man? *


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> *Some of you are too brutal. *Yea, she screwed up big time. But when Malcolm has to post asking people not to be so rough, there's a problem. I*f there's anyone that should want to see LAS suffer our wrath, it's Malcolm* and he's asking us not to be so vicious in our posts. We should all comply.




I dont agree with this. Everyone giving her a 2x4 are not getting any pleasure from that, some times the best way to shake a person out of their fog is giving some 2x4 and many still wont wake out.

People who wake out soon will be able to do many thing before the last drops slipping out off their hand.

Then I dont think any one giving 2x4 have the intention to please Malcolm, WS who posted here before their BS for help also received the same 2x4 it was not to please any BS.

2x4 is a way of hard love and nice advice are trying them nice out of their fog. A combination of both may be the best thing for WS and BS who are in thick fog.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Kallan Pavithran said:


> I dont agree with this. Everyone giving her a 2x4 are not getting any pleasure from that, some times the best way to shake a person out of their fog is giving some 2x4 and many still wont wake out.
> 
> People who wake out soon will be able to do many thing before the last drops slipping out off their hand.
> 
> Then I dont think any one giving 2x4 have the intention to please Malcolm, WS who posted here before their BS for help also received the same 2x4 it was not to please any BS.
> 
> 2x4 is a way of hard love and nice advice are trying them nice out of their fog. A combination of both may be the best thing for WS and BS who are in thick fog.


Yes, I understand. The 2X4s are to get her to think, but when you start wrapping those 2X4s in barbed wire, I feel you're just trying injure and maim. To me, Malcolm's been through so much already that when he asks us to tone down the comments, we should do what he's asks. Regardless of how we personally feel about this.


----------



## MattMatt

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Yes, I understand. The 2X4s are to get her to think, but when you start wrapping those 2X4s in barbed wire, I feel you're just trying injure and maim. To me, Malcolm's been through so much already that when he asks us to tone down the comments, we should do what he's asks. Regardless of how we personally feel about this.


It is the usual problem. People mistaking another person's WS for their own. It doesn't help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SaltInWound

Lost, please come back and tell us how you feel and what your experiences have been, so that we can understand what a WS is thinking.


----------



## The bishop

Lost at Sea.... I am in the exact position you are. I hate to tell you and myself, our spouses deserve a whole lot better.


----------



## msmith

Lost, I have been following Malcomb and your threads for quite some time. Some of the posters have some very good constructive comments.

I like to share something about the state of remorse. Everyone, after does something wrong and getting caught would have remorse. Even Judas had remorse after he did the betrayal. But the path to self redemption is not just remorse, it is repentance. In your case, it is to turn around from cheating and flirting forever. Ask yourself in the heart, if there is another OM coming up in the future, would you do it again?

I remember the movie "French Connection II" in which Doyle (played by Gene Hackman) turned into a drug addict by the crime lord. After he was rescued and went thru a horrible trial of cold turkey, he was declared clean. Later he came to have a possession of couple packets of heroin in a crack house. He stared at the packets for a time, then with great determination, he threw the packets on the floor and grounded them to pieces with his shoe.

Again, you ask yourself. After you reconcile with Malcomb, if there is another OM appears, with the knowledge that you won't getting caught, would you do it again? You don't need to post your answer here. That is something you need to deal with your own conscience.


----------



## donny64

Not sure how much I'd be advising her on what to do to win him back. TRUE REMORSE needs no guidebook or bullet point list. If she had ANY, she'd not have had two affairs and another inappropriate contact.

Personally, I think your best bet is to leave him alone. Let him find someone who truly appreciates and will be loyal to a good husband, provider, and father.


----------



## WyshIknew

WyshIknew said:


> Can anyone say trickle truth?
> Is there more? A furtive BJ that 'doesn't count', getting 'felt up' etc. Would anyone here put their hard earned cash down as a bet that there wasn't more?





Lost at sea said:


> I had a ons about 10 years ago. I have also kissed another man 5 years ago and only ended it when he was transferred.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Looks like I'd have won my bet.

Lost. I'm highlighting this not to 'punish' you but to try and point out that trickle truthing your husband is only going to hurt your cause.

You've been trickle truthing him from the moment he found out.

Your chances of reconciling with your husband were marginal at best. Continually trickle truthing him like this is going to make it impossible.

If the kissing 5 years ago was more, tell him. If there were other incidences, tell him.

Betrayed spouses are very good at finding out the truth.

There is also a resource called 'Joseph's Letter' which explains a betrayed spouses feelings when their wayward spouse asks for forgiveness without divulging the truth.

There is also an 'Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse' to read.

If you haven't seen it you can find it as part of Almost Recovered's signature.

If you haven't done so I highly recommend reading them.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

WyshIknew said:


> Looks like I'd have won my bet.
> 
> Lost. I'm highlighting this not to 'punish' you but to try and point out that trickle truthing your husband is only going to hurt your cause.
> 
> You've been trickle truthing him from the moment he found out.
> 
> Your chances of reconciling with your husband were marginal at best. Continually trickle truthing him like this is going to make it impossible.
> 
> If the kissing 5 years ago was more, tell him. If there were other incidences, tell him.
> 
> Betrayed spouses are very good at finding out the truth.
> 
> There is also a resource called 'Joseph's Letter' which explains a betrayed spouses feelings when their wayward spouse asks for forgiveness without divulging the truth.
> 
> There is also an 'Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse' to read.
> 
> If you haven't seen it you can find it as part of Almost Recovered's signature.
> 
> If you haven't done so I highly recommend reading them.


Now THAT"S a consrtructive 2X4. Thank you WyshIknew.


----------



## barbados

Lost at sea said:


> I had a ons about 10 years ago. I have also kissed another man 5 years ago and only ended it when he was transferred.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lost at Sea, most of us have read Malcolm's thread. You are not even able to be honest about your actions on your own thread ! How can anyone give you any real advice then ?


----------



## F-102

One thing that stands out in these affairs that she keeps trickle truthing us about is, it seems that they were on their way to full-blown "run-away-with-prince-charming" type affairs, but something always stopped it. This last one came close, oh so close, but again, something other than her conscience stopped it. Something made the relationship with the OM a little less than convenient, and she went running back to the "safety" of her M and family.

What I'm asking you, LaS, (and this isn't me trying to be a sarcastic jerk who is baiting you) is if you do indeed reconcile with Malcolm, and a few years down the road you meet another man who fits all the criteria of a "perfect" soul mate, will you stick with your marriage this time, or will you be planning your escape again-determined to "get it right" this time?

In short, (and again, I'm not trying to be a jerk here) it sounds like you subconsciously want out of this marriage and family, and you are waiting for the opportunity to do so.


----------



## jim123

JCD said:


> 1) Lost...you shouldn't have called him.
> 
> 2) People slip up. It was a phone call. Not sex. A phone call.
> 
> But Lost...when I gave my word for NC, I kept it. This isn't an excuse.


The phone call was only the start. Later LAS and Malcolm talked and she refused NC. He was a good man and friend. That is why this all happened. That was the moment. She chose OM over Malcolm.

The phone call only pushed the issue and forced a final position.

She would have left Malcolm to be with OM regardless.

She must address within herself why she did this. It was not just dating not attention. She left her husband for OM and that is where Malcolm can not longer take her back. Assuming that is still the case.

Malcolm tried many times. She had to do what she did.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

MattMatt said:


> It is the usual problem. People mistaking another person's WS for their own. It doesn't help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True. I just wished EVERYONE remembered this me and you included. Part of the problem is many try to stifle other opinions then take it out on each other, the wayward and the betrayed.


----------



## sandc

Because at this time she wants sympathy, not to better herself.


----------



## Lost at sea

My thanks to everyone responding. Even the angry ones. It helps to see this from different perspectives.
Frankly i am more remorseful than many think. But obviously that isnt enouh and i realize that. I am starting counseling this week and hope to get to the bottom of what is wrong with me. I dont want the sympathy some think i crave. I do want perspective, even if it is harsh. 

One final thing i have to add. I am not giving up on my husband. I have f'd up my marriage. But i am going to try to win him back. I will not even look at another guy. If i have to wait five years i will. If i have to watch him date i will. 

I am having a dna test run. It will prove my daughters are his.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Lost at sea said:


> Frankly i am more remorseful than many think.


How did you come to this conclusion?


----------



## Lost at sea

Frankly, i have acted like a w***** for the last year. The truth isnt pretty or amusing in any way. But the idea that i dont hate what i did is wrong. I am also sorry for hurting my husband over and over. Being sorry is not enough. I know that. It is only one step in about a thousand. 

I watch him every day. He is such a good man. A great dad to our kids. When they are asleep or at his brothers, he is a walking shell. He is hurt by what i did. By ehat i have done. It hurts to know i did that. I have given him a timeline of everything. I mean everything over the course of our marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lost at sea

To out myself......i had a one night stand our first year of marriage with an ex boyfriend. A one night stand 10 years ago. A kiss five years ago that would have led to more if we had more access to time together and the affair over the past year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lost at sea

To answer a question i got.....if i won the lottery i would offer my husband to go awaywith me and our kids to a new place for a new start. Even if he was only with me for my money maybe he would still fall in love with me again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lost at sea said:


> My thanks to everyone responding. Even the angry ones. It helps to see this from different perspectives.
> Frankly i am more remorseful than many think. But obviously that isnt enouh and i realize that. I am starting counseling this week and hope to get to the bottom of what is wrong with me. I dont want the sympathy some think i crave. I do want perspective, even if it is harsh.
> 
> One final thing i have to add. I am not giving up on my husband. I have f'd up my marriage. But i am going to try to win him back. I will not even look at another guy. If i have to wait five years i will. If i have to watch him date i will.
> 
> I am having a dna test run. It will prove my daughters are his.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sadly, I think your dire need to reconnect with Malcolm now that the OM jumped the shark (who could see that coming?) is simply yet another expression of your need for attention from a man. 

Right now Malcolm would be the ultimate challenge (and, therefore, victory). 

Once you have him back (a highly unlikely scenario), I think you'd chalk it up as an "Expert Level" capture, and start looking for the next guy to give you attention.

The WW's mind is a fascinating thing. I sincerely do wish the best for you and the family you left behind.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

I guess the first question that comes to mind is why should he believe that you will simply not repeat the same thing five years from now? Why should he trust you?

I am curious. Why did you choose this other man over your husband? He is your husband who vowed to be with you through thick and thin, in sickness and in health ... and yet you chose instead to share yourself with a man you didn't know who made no such commitment in the most intimate way possible. I'm not being judgmental, I am curious about how a wayward spouse would explain it.


----------



## Lost at sea

I enjoyed the attention and thought to myself that my husband wouldnt find out. I have lived a level of secrecy for a number of years now. One reason i drink some weekends is to get over the guilt of my actions not only for the past year, but for our whole marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Yeah, I'm thinking if OM didn't get owned by Malcom when he exposed at work, you'd still be following through on your plans with the OM.

Malcolm raised his value by taking down the OM, and the OM showed that he is a self serving spineless jerk.

And I think at the heart of it Malcom doesn't accept that you actually want to be with him.

You need to put a long term plan in place and stick to it. It may take years of waiting on your part, while Malcolm dates and tries out others,

Are you really up for waiting it out to put your family back together?


----------



## jim123

Shaggy said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking if OM didn't get owned by Malcom when he exposed at work, you'd still be following through on your plans with the OM.
> 
> Malcolm raised his value by taking down the OM, and the OM showed that he is a self serving spineless jerk.
> 
> And I think at the heart of it Malcom doesn't accept that you actually want to be with him.
> 
> You need to put a long term plan in place and stick to it. It may take years of waiting on your part, while Malcolm dates and tries out others,
> 
> Are you really up for waiting it out to put your family back together?


This is the question. You replaced Malcolm and have been unfaithfull through your marriage. Do you actually love him or have not found someone to replace him.


----------



## illwill

InlandTXMM said:


> Sadly, I think your dire need to reconnect with Malcolm now that the OM jumped the shark (who could see that coming?) is simply yet another expression of your need for attention from a man.
> 
> Right now Malcolm would be the ultimate challenge (and, therefore, victory).
> 
> Once you have him back (a highly unlikely scenario), I think you'd chalk it up as an "Expert Level" capture, and start looking for the next guy to give you attention.
> 
> The WW's mind is a fascinating thing. I sincerely do wish the best for you and the family you left behind.


I sadly agree. I think she wants him now because her other options are gone. Anyway I'm glad you came back. Good luck.


----------



## Lost at sea

This will sound empty....i know this....but the only man i ever have loved is malcolm. I left because i was hurt he wouldnt fight for me. I have been a selfish b-***. I see that. I was so caught up in feeling dumped by malcolm when he told me to leave when he caught me in my affair. I see now that he needed to do thst to getmy attention.i was a selfish idiot for not getting that before. 

Yes i will wait for him. He isnt seeing anyone but a good looking guy who is a good dad and his own boss is a catch and i know i will have competition at some point. I will wait.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mrstj4sho88

*You can't just keep hooking up with men .You are a married woman who needs to learn how to love herself again. You are not single so stop acting like it. Plus you could get an std while playing around in the street.*.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lost at sea said:


> This will sound empty....i know this....but the only man i ever have loved is malcolm. I left because i was hurt he wouldnt fight for me. I have been a selfish b-***. I see that. I was so caught up in feeling dumped by malcolm when he told me to leave when he caught me in my affair. I see now that he needed to do thst to getmy attention.i was a selfish idiot for not getting that before.
> 
> Yes i will wait for him. He isnt seeing anyone but a good looking guy who is a good dad and his own boss is a catch and i know i will have competition at some point. I will wait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You said he needed to get your attention. No - YOU NEEDED TO KEEP YOUR FOCUS ON YOUR MARRIAGE.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Lost at sea said:


> I enjoyed the attention and thought to myself that my husband wouldnt find out. I have lived a level of secrecy for a number of years now. One reason i drink some weekends is to get over the guilt of my actions not only for the past year, but for our whole marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess that isn't a surprise; I think that a lot of wayward spouses would give that answer. 

While I do not respect what you have done, I do respect that you have come here to look for answers even in the face of tough questions and harsh criticism.

To lighten the mood - why do they call that "having balls"? Balls are sensitive and vulnerable. Shouldn't it be called "having vagina"?


----------



## illwill

He did not have to fight for you because you gave yourself to another man. The very second your affair was revealed and you saw him Malcolm unravel, and come to pieces, whatever love you had for him would have driven you to go to the ends of the earth to undue the damage you carelessly inflicted upon him. The window to prove that was at that exact second. The very moment you reached out to this man again (My Aunt decided to become homeless instead going back to her OM when my uncle kicked her out) you forfeited the right to claim love to Malcolm. And when the OM bailed. Your moment had truly passed. Because now all you have to go by is your word, which means nothing. If you cannot grasp this then you don't love him and you will never deserve him.

I'm not bashing you. But to say he is the only man you ever loved and you believe he should have fought for you is scary. Because what kind of love is that?


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Lost at sea said:


> This will sound empty....i know this....but the only man i ever have loved is malcolm. I left because i was hurt he wouldnt fight for me. I have been a selfish b-***. I see that. I was so caught up in feeling dumped by malcolm when he told me to leave when he caught me in my affair. I see now that he needed to do thst to getmy attention.i was a selfish idiot for not getting that before.
> 
> Yes i will wait for him. He isnt seeing anyone but a good looking guy who is a good dad and his own boss is a catch and i know i will have competition at some point. I will wait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know this is a viewpoint from cyberspace but I don't think you should wait for him. I think you should work on yourself without seeing anybody else for awhile ... and by awhile, I mean a couple of years. Do it for you and for your kids and not for the purpose of winning him back. Become the person you want to be and should be. Get some healthy hobbies; don't drink to soothe your conscious; work on your fitness; read books that will help give you a positive perspective. That will be your best chance at winning him back in a healthy way and if he doesn't come back, you will be ready to have a healthy relationship with someone else.


----------



## BjornFree

Lost at sea said:


> To out myself......i had a one night stand our first year of marriage with an ex boyfriend. A one night stand 10 years ago. A kiss five years ago that would have led to more if we had more access to time together and the affair over the past year.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are a serial cheater and IMO its very hard for serial cheaters to change. Note that I said very hard and not impossible. 

You claim to love Malcolm but your actions indicate otherwise. Even if you do love Malcolm in whatever twisted version of love that is, he has no other choice but to divorce you mostly because as a young man he'll be missing out on a good life if he ties himself down to you. This is not a judgement of your character btw. You clearly didn't respect the man and you can't love people you don't respect even if you say you do. Its fairly clear that you love what your husband brings to the table(good man, great dad etc etc etc) rather than the man himself. 

TBH, Malcolm is in his prime, a young attractive man of 38 will find it easier to land a much younger, more attractive woman who actually respects him than say a younger man in his 20's so there is absolutely no need for you to wait around for him because if he were to make a side by side comparison of you and a faithful young woman you can bet your money on the fact that he's not going to choose you.


----------



## Malaise

Lost at sea said:


> To out myself......i had a one night stand our first year of marriage with an ex boyfriend. A one night stand 10 years ago. *A kiss five years ago that would have led to more if we had more access to time together *and the affair over the past year.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lost

You would have done more than kiss this guy if you had the chance. That's after two ONS, in a period of your marriage when should have been happiest.

And the affair that would still be going on in Mal had not exposed.

And you still say that you love him but just desired attention from others.

I don't see, from where I sit, how you can love him, not in the way most people think.

The two ONS...you were basically a newlywed, your love for Mal should have been at its strongest. Yet, two ONS. 

The guy you kissed...the only thing that kept it from being more was time, not your love for Malcom. Only logistics kept you from cheating,again.

And the last guy...you would be with him still, right? Only Mal's exposure changed that, it wasn't your love for him.

Now you love him, you always have you say. What I think, and what you have to come grips with is that you love the security he provides, not himself.

When you embrace that idea, then you can change. Until then, you are fooling yourself.

But, I don't think Malcom is fooled on this.

He may still love you but doesn't think that you can, or will, change.

And he wants to protect himself from additional pain.

Good luck


----------



## foolme2x

Lost at sea said:


> To out myself......i had a one night stand our first year of marriage with an ex boyfriend. A one night stand 10 years ago. A kiss five years ago that would have led to more if we had more access to time together and the affair over the past year.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lost at Sea, I think it is brave of you to come back and brave to post the above. Giving a complete timeline of your infidelities over the course of the marriage to Malcolm was the right thing to do.

So, four OM. That makes you a serial adulterer. And starting the first year of your marriage? No matter how desperate you are to reconcile, you have to face a huge obstacle...that to Malcolm, it probably feels like your marriage was nothing but a sham the whole time. 

Your affairs cover the entire length of your marriage (not continuously, I know, but still from the first year up till just recently). That's a lot of great memories that you've basically poisoned forever. He now knows that when you were having a nice holiday together, or watching one of your babies walk for the first time...you were dreaming of another man or even actively in a relationship with one. I can't look at pictures taken from the times that my husband was involved in his affairs without a lot of pain, which sucks since the first one started right after the birth of one of our children, and there are so many "happy family" photos. Affairs don't just ruin your present marriage; they ruin the past marriage, too, because what the betrayed spouse thought was special and true about your relationship -- just wasn't true at all.

You said you've been drinking on the weekends to assuage your guilt. NOT A GREAT IDEA. I don't know how much you drink, but reading your earlier posts, I actually thought you gave off a drinker's vibe...don't know how else to put it. The poor, pitiful me thing; the "why oh why am I so horrible" thing. All I can say is stop it, for your own sake and for the sake of your kids. It can only make things worse.

I think you are starting to do some of the right things, and time will only tell if it is for the right reasons. It sounds like you have a lot of growing to do. If you want your marriage back, I almost think you might have to let it go and prove yourself to Malcolm over time. He should never have had to "fight for you" -- what is that all about?!? You should never have put him in a position where he had to. That's the ultimate in disrespect.

Another big obstacle I see is this: I can actually envision a scenario in which I meet some guy and decide that I'm going to leave my husband for him. I can't ever imagine...ever...wanting another man so much that I would move and leave my children behind for him. If my husband had done that to us, I honestly don't know how long it would take to respect him again. 

I wish you good luck. Even if your marriage doesn't survive, it sounds like you really are sick and tired of living like you have been. It can get better.


----------



## carpenoctem

I hope someone starts a dating forum exclusively for serial cheaters, where they can find one another, and get together / marry. So that those among us who are comparatively monogamous post-marriage are spared the kind of purgatory that Malcolm is now in.

But that wouldn't do, would it? Serial cheaters want a safe bet at home looking after the kids, maintaining overall sanity levels in the marriage, and a respectable social facade.

So cruel.



Lost At Sea: consider one of these, please:

let Malcolm be (=leave him?), get IC, etc., if you think you have a problem balancing your sexuality with your dignity (seeking validation / attention through free sex offers and all that, or surrendering to lust attacks too easily).

*if not (if serial monogamy / hypergamy is too dominant in your inherent character -- you MUST know if it is, despite all the counsel-seeking), find a serial cheating man, and get the game going. At least, it will not be routine and boring.

let Malcolm find a boring, faithful woman, and let them lead their boring lives as they see fit.
*


----------



## walkonmars

Nice post foolme2x.


----------



## sandc

LaS,
I just hope you can come out of this a better person. Make that your goal, not getting Malcolm back. Do it for your children, do it for you.


----------



## Wazza

OK, so you have come totally clean with Malcolm? Answered all his questions truthfully? No detail omitted, or glossed over?

Double check. Be very sure.

Do you agree that you have shown yourself to be basically unfaithful for most of the marriage?

What are you doing to change yourself?


----------



## cledus_snow

sometime an affair is a TOTAL dealbreaker..... simple as that.


----------



## illwill

Most of the time.


----------



## JCD

JCD said:


> Here are a number of questions I have.
> 
> 1) Did you continue to have sex with this man after your husband's D Day but before he left on New Years? Malcom said it was 10 times over the course of a year. After you promised to be good, did you continue to do more than call each other?
> 
> 2) Not sure about most companies, but long range transfers USUALLY take some time to set up. And yet it seems as if Your Husband's Replacement arranged this...very fast. Were you planning on walking away from your husband in advance or is this a reaction to your husband's actions?
> 
> 3) Did you actually move in with him? When did the cracks in that relationship appear, before or after you were fired?
> 
> 4) Short term, I know you left the kids with Malcom (middle of the school year and you didn't have a place to live). What were your long term plans regarding the kids?
> 
> 5) At what point in your relationship with Malcom did you consider it 'over' i.e. time to start to set up full time house with OM?
> 
> 6) Ten years ago, you had a one night stand with another man. Five years ago, you were, from the sounds of it, regularly making out with another man and probably would have gone all the way eventually if he hadn't transfered out. What was similar with all these men that you were attracted to THEM and not your husband? Did you work with all of them? Was it physical attractiveness? Personality type? Status or money? Do you find yourself hanging around men more at work or women?
> 
> 7) Your husband tells you you are pretty. Your POS affair partner says the same. Why did you belive the later more than the former?
> 
> I'm sure more questions will come up to me.
> 
> Oh...and did POS get fired? I really hope you know...but don't you dare call him just to find out.


I am reposting this in case you missed it before.

Now I have some more.

So...right after you got married, you had a 'last fling' with the ex. I do not subscribe to the 'Oh....the first year is BLISS!' interpretation of marriage. I had stages of that mixed in with "WTF did I get myself into!?!" So....first year infidelity is a bit less egregious for me. It proves NOTHING about the marriage except that the wayward didn't transition from 'girlfiend' to 'wife' particularly well.

So QUESTION 1 What happened with this ex boyfriend afterwards and how did you 'hook up'? Did you continue any contact with him afterwards. Why or why not? Has he continued to be part of your social life?

You got to the 7 year itch time...and you had another ONS. (Correct my timeline if I'm wrong) Stranger, co-worker, ex? How and why did you get into THAT situation?

Five years ago, you lacked the opportunity. Co-worker. One kiss? ONE? Seems a bit odd. Who was the aggressor this time? Who is usually the aggressor? 

What made this last guy different from the others? Before, you did a one off. This guy...he got a year of your time and 10 bites (or more) at the apple. How was he different? What changed in you or your marriage that you allowed this, not only to happen but to continue?

These questions are not to excoriate you. I want to know what you were thinking, and try to find out what triggers you. You have met a LOT of men over the last 17 years but you selected these men...or put yourself in specific circumstances which somehow justified this in your mind.

Until we figure out what these situations have in common besides you, you cannot say with any certainty that it won't happen again. And if you can't say that, trying to R is a waste of both your time.


----------



## Madman1

Las, 
Thanks for replying.
What were the circumstances with the ons after the exboy friend.

How long/how well did you know this man before the ons?

Did you express your feelings for him first?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malaise

Lost 

JCD has some questions and it would do you good to answer them. Not to us but to yourself.

Take some time and wite out the answers to his questions.

Do it honestly, completely. You don't have to post the answers here.

But you should ask yourself if you can't even admit those things to yourself how can you face Malcom if and when he has those same questions?

Your worst critic here is not Mal, or us, it's you. 

Be honest.


----------



## AlphaHalf

You had your "fun" cheating, got caught, lied multiple times, cheated again, and God only knows what else. Accept the consequences for your action, Get your s#$t together and move on. 

Let Malcolm find his peace and happiness elsewhere. He EARNED IT. And its the least you can do after all the $$%t you put him through.


----------



## Will_Kane

Lost at sea said:


> This will sound empty....i know this....but the only man i ever have loved is malcolm. *I left because i was hurt he wouldnt fight for me.* I have been a selfish b-***. I see that. *I was so caught up in feeling dumped by malcolm* when he told me to leave when he caught me in my affair. I see now that he needed to do thst to getmy attention.i was a selfish idiot for not getting that before.
> 
> Yes i will wait for him. He isnt seeing anyone but a good looking guy who is a good dad and his own boss is a catch and i know i will have competition at some point. I will wait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Malcom discovered the affair in July 2012 and forgave you for it. You kept the affair going until he posted here and found out that you still were heavily involved in the affair in December. Then you told him you wouldn't end contact with your good friend, the other man. Then malcolm asked you to leave, and you took a transfer to be with the other man.

*My question is, what did you expect malcolm to do to "fight" for you?* What were you expecting him to do differently? Were you expecting malcolm to "compete" with the other man for his own wife? He confronted you on the affair in the summer and you didn't end it, then he confronted you again in January and you refused to give up contact. What exactly were you expecting malcolm to do to "fight" for you?

Also, malcolm felt "dumped" by you because you wouldn't end the affair. *How is it that you could feel "dumped" by malcolm* because he refused to accept the affair and he kicked you out? Should he just accepted you remaining in contact with the other man?

What was it that malcolm could have done to get you to end the affair and return to seriously work on the marriage? Is there a way malcolm could have gotten you to this stage of truly wanting to work on the marriage and telling him the full truth before he "dumped you"? And if so, what is it that he could have done to get you to change your ways?


----------



## jnj express

Hey Lost at Sea------lets start at the beginning---lets go back 10 yrs---to the 1st yr. of your mge---when you and Malcolm, were newlyweds, and SHOULD have been so in love, that no one else in the whole world existed---it was the 2 of you, and you were in that starry-eyed state of being, that newly weds are in for a yr. or two----yet you go and have a ONS, with some guy you hooked up with prior to your mge to Malcolm----WHY---it may be 10 yrs down the line---but I know, that even right now---YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR THINKING WAS, AND WHY, YOU DECIEVED MALCOLM, and as you say, your mge., has a veneer of secrecy for a long time----so once again---WHY the ONS, when no one else in the world should have existed for you, at that point in time, but Malcolm----WHY??????


----------



## Headspin

Well some credit for you coming back on 

You are/could be my stbxw. (15 yrs 11 married) 
After two affairs I foolishly gave her another two shots at it and after her saying all the same stuff .......... 

she carried on. (All married men with kids) She almost certainly had 'inbetweeners' too

It is an addiction of sorts and one that I think is impossible for a serial cheater to stop.

The 'attention' and excitement of the catch is a drug add in the 'forbidden' and that's it - relationship / marriage all done. 

These things for me are rooted psychologically in childhood problems / relationships and can never really be undone

Think you need to accept what you are and also accept that the best thing you can do _for your husband_ if there is any real respect left from you is to let him go. 

Be a single woman because that is also rooted subconsciously to your desires in my opinion and enjoy what you can with single unattached men. Maybe that is a way forward for you.

One comment from my wife after the birth of our 2nd 9 years ago has stood out as writing firmly hammered into the wall from which everything would collapse

"Because I met and fell in love with you I never got to have my wild 20's" ...........great

That seems to be at the root of a lot of dissatisfaction from woman in my experience. Is that any parallel for you.
I think you need to look deeper into your self, your history, your life for some answers that may point you in a better less calamitous direction.


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## Decorum

Lost at sea said:


> This will sound empty....i know this....but the only man i ever have loved is malcolm. _Posted via Mobile Device_



Lost at sea,
Some posters may question this statement but I do not. I believe you, more than that I could have predicted that you felt this way, and I will tell you why.

I’m sure Malcolm has his faults but he is a good man, a faithful husband, good father, protector and provider. He has been a good friend and companion. If you did not say you loved him I would think you were a terrible human being and I would not bother posting. How could you not love him "on some level", as your husband and the father of your children and I have no doubt he feels the same.

It is this issue of love “on some level” that the confusion and lack of clarity enters,. There are different kinds of love.

Let me give you an example. My wife and I have 4 children, two of whom are daughters (18 &22 yrs old).

They have captured my heart since the day they were born, I would and have gladly worked long hours for them, and sacrifice whatever I have left to help and be there for them. They love me and know I have their backs, no matter what. If it were necessary I would gladly spill every last drop of blood I have to protect them and thank God with my dying breath that they are safe.

One day God willing I will walk them down the aisle in a marriage ceremony and do what is called “Giving away the Bride” , this is more than just a meaningless gesture, something that happened to give the doddering old father something to do because he is paying for the wedding.

It is part of the wedding ceremony because it is true. The daily role that I served as their father is truly transferred to the new son in law, her husband. This transition takes place without jealously, there is no competition. 

This new man will fill this role as well as that of lover and sexual partner, as it should be.

Every man when he marries his life partner is marrying his lover. She is the object of his desire; he looks for the passion in her eyes, the eagerness and enthusiasm in her kiss and lovemaking, he looks to see the submission in her femininity as she gives herself to him. He wants to know that he “rocks” her world and that they share something between them that is special and all their own.

No man marries a woman because he wants to adopt her as a daughter, no he is looking for a lover and companion, as a man I show love and receive love by being my partner’s lover.

*Well then, here are two levels of love, the father love, and the lover love.*

When you say that Malcolm is the only man you have ever loved, I believe you, but it is the father love you feel, it a response to his masculine love for you. As you step back and think “what have you done to this good man” and are truly horrified, you can realize now why you feel the way you do.

(Btw LAS you are not the first wayward spouse to stop at this waypoint and ask for directions, many get lost right here.)

The problem is that you have not always loved Malcolm as a lover .If you did at those times you could not bear to let another take his place, it would feel like rape to give yourself to another if Malcolm were your lover. It would make you feel like throwing up.

I suspect (if you are honest) that at times, especially under the influence of an affair, that your sexual attraction for Malcolm was in negative numbers, it’s the way woman are wired. There were times you had sex with Malcolm and were not interested in him or even repulsed at the thought, but you did it to try to disguise an affair.

This is what Jim and some others were trying to bring out earlier. (I believe)



jim123 said:


> This is the question. You replaced Malcolm and have been unfaithfull through your marriage. Do you actually love him or have not found someone to replace him.


Basically Lost, Malcolm has always been your husband and a good one but he has not always been your one and only lover, that special place has been “Let out” over the course of your whole marriage.

Sometimes it has come back to Malcolm perhaps, other times its given to strange men, but you are always on the lookout for a new interest.

You have considered yourself available since the time you began dating Malcolm. You have never transitioned to a settled state in married life. Your periodic failure has been assured from the beginning because of this.

There is no deeper answer as to why after this, everyone has to decide what kind of person they want to be, and you acting out what you wanted.

Malcolm knows this, whether he could put in into words or not, he now knows that he has only occasionally been your lover but always your husband. 

This is the principle definition of the much abhorred cake eater so often spoke of here, Protector, provider, but not lover.

When Malcolm was considering reconciling with you, his question was not, can I be a husband to her, will she accept my protection and provision; no it was will she truly, finally and fully be my lover and mine alone.

Even you do not know at this point if you could finally and fully be his lover should he reconcile, you still think you have always loved him, but don't yet see, that you have not loved him on every level.

You don’t see it yet, and probably cannot see it yet.
It will take time and work to clear the fog.

You were not really that interested in Malcolm sexually. (Now is a different matter, different dynamic.)

And that is one of the most painful and devastating realizations for a betrayed spouse, that as good as he thought things were they were not good enough for you to keep safe the special bond of sexual intimacy that he thought the two of you shared.

To him it will likely seem undeniable!

He will spend much time searching for an answer in himself as to why, it will forever be an unanswered question. You can try to take the blame but as a man when he knows you choose another over him, you will have no answer that will alleviate his question.

So yes you have always loved Malcolm, but you have not always been his lover, and that means everything to a man.


----------



## WyshIknew

Decorum, one of the best posts I have ever read from anyone on this forum.


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## Headspin

Decorum said:


> There is no deeper answer as to why after this, _everyone has to decide what kind of person they want to be_,
> 
> Malcolm knows this, whether he could put in into words or not, he now knows that he has only occasionally been your lover but always your husband.


Choice is everything 

Nobody is made to be a cheat. 

They choose to be one


----------



## Malaise

WyshIknew said:


> Decorum, one of the best posts I have ever read from anyone on this forum.


Ditto


----------



## Wazza

WyshIknew said:


> Decorum, one of the best posts I have ever read from anyone on this forum.


Another endorsement for Decorum's post.

I have seen my wife when she is sexually into me, and I have seen her when she is acting out of duty. She simply doesn't comprehend how different the two look, and I cannot put into words how much the rejection of sexual non-desire hurts.


----------



## Decorum

Blush....praise from my mentors, very encouraging!

To help someone, pure joy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malcolm38

Decorum posted it to perfection. 

All I was doing while reading that is nodding my head in the affirmative. 

I'm sure that she actually does love me. But it is as a father figure and not as a lover. Obviously not, as I've been replaced multiple times. Mostly without my knowledge. 

It would seem that she has finally been honest with me. If it is still trickle truth (which is possible I know) she has given me a heck of a timeline and outed herself in activities I would have never known.


----------



## happyman64

Well Malcom.

I am glad she gave you the timeline and outed herself.

That shows she is at the end of the rope.

The rope you are holding.

Frankly, I wonder what Lost at Sea could ever offer you now that shows she has any value left as a wife to you?

Sorry you are here Malcom. Sorry that yoour wife has been so "Lost" during your marriage.

Maybe you letting her go will give her the push to see what is wrong within her. And possibly address it.

HM64


----------



## Malaise

Malcolm38 said:


> Decorum posted it to perfection.
> 
> All I was doing while reading that is nodding my head in the affirmative.
> 
> I'm sure that she actually does love me. But it is as a father figure and not as a lover. Obviously not, as I've been replaced multiple times. Mostly without my knowledge.
> 
> *It would seem that she has finally been honest with me*. If it is still trickle truth (which is possible I know) she has given me a heck of a timeline and outed herself in activities I would have never known.


It's too bad that her time for honesty comes so late, too late, to have a good affect on the marriage.

Perhaps if she had been as honest years ago the marriage could have been salvaged.

Still, it's something that you should know Mal in order to make the correct decision.

Not that you haven't done so already.

Lost, it's too bad you are just now realizing Malcom's value as a man and a husband.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

Decorum said:


> So yes you have always loved Malcolm, but you have not always been his lover, and that means everything to a man.


"When a man loves a woman, it's hard to understand,
how she can find more pleasure, in the arms of another man."

So take a letter Maria...


----------



## bandit.45

I love that "wish he had fought for me" line. 

Straight outta the cheater's script. Just another insipient way for the cheater to blame their bad behavior on their spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SaltInWound

PreRaphaelite said:


> "When a man loves a woman, it's hard to understand,
> how she can find more pleasure, in the arms of another man."
> 
> So take a letter Maria...


Gonna start a new life.


----------



## Wazza

Lost at sea said:


> This will sound empty....i know this....but the only man i ever have loved is malcolm. I left because i was hurt he wouldnt fight for me. I have been a selfish b-***. I see that. I was so caught up in feeling dumped by malcolm when he told me to leave when he caught me in my affair. I see now that he needed to do thst to getmy attention.i was a selfish idiot for not getting that before.
> 
> Yes i will wait for him. He isnt seeing anyone but a good looking guy who is a good dad and his own boss is a catch and i know i will have competition at some point. I will wait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


On reflection, need to point out that he did fight for you.

And you kept going.

He didn't dump you to get your attention. He dumped you because he fought for you and you rejected him and treated him with contempt.

You are an adult. If you choose to totally disregard the marriage, ultimately his only choices are to sit there and take it or leave. That is the choice you gave him.

If you think he could have fought for you, I invite you to name a single thing he could have done but didn't.


----------



## Malaise

Wazza said:


> On reflection, need to point out that he did fight for you.
> 
> And you kept going.
> 
> He didn't dump you to get your attention. He dumped you because he fought for you and you rejected him and treated him with contempt.
> 
> You are an adult. If you choose to totally disregard the marriage, ultimately his only choices are to sit there and take it or leave. That is the choice you gave him.
> 
> If you think he could have fought for you, I invite you to name a single thing he could have done but didn't.


You're being logical and she's looking at the past through a distorted lens.

And what she sees is not the reality Malcom knows.


----------



## Wazza

Malaise said:


> You're being logical and she's looking at the past through a distorted lens.
> 
> And what she sees is not the reality Malcom knows.


I know that. Part of the point of the thread is to help her understand what she did.


----------



## larry.gray

Lost at sea said:


> I do want perspective, even if it is harsh.


Well since you invited it:

Will you _respect_ your husband if he takes you back? 

A normal part of the cheater's script is to go off and have an affair thinking you won't get caught. Clearly you started out that way. But you went WAY beyond that. You expected him to take you back when you were caught and were rubbing the affair in his face. You expected to be able to have the affair and he'd just take you back when you were done. 

Why? What let you think along those lines? How do you get to that point?

Do you think you're such a catch and he's a loser? That he'd just take your sloppy seconds and be grateful for it? You demeaned him in the deepest possible way, and then reacted surprised when he didn't just take it and be happy about it.

We've seen a few WW come here who get off on demeaning the husband. Is it possible you're one of them?


----------



## Lost at sea

Do i get a thrill from demeaning my husband? Not at all. 

Am i enough of a narcasist to go ahead with actions i know to be harmful to my marriage?yes, itappears that i have been just that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lost at sea

The only thing that Malcolm could have done to stop me is what he did do, and that was expose me. Everything else was my immagination.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

Lost at sea said:


> The only thing that Malcolm could have done to stop me is what he did do, and that was expose me. Everything else was my immagination.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That concerns me, because he actually did a lot more than just expose you. It might be a useful, if painful, exercise to go through his thread and list the things he did, and how you responded to them.

Not even sure if exposure was to stop you, or because he thought it right. You did not come back when he exposed. You came back when you were dumped.


----------



## larry.gray

Lost at sea said:


> Do i get a thrill from demeaning my husband? Not at all.


Well that's at least good. Like I said, there were a few women who've been here that were that way a some of your story was making me question that.



Lost at sea said:


> The only thing that Malcolm could have done to stop me is what he did do, and that was expose me. Everything else was my immagination.


I second Wazza's insinuation. Be honest, you came home when you were dumped by the other man, didn't you?


----------



## Wazza

larry.gray said:


> Well that's at least good. Like I said, there were a few women who've been here that were that way a some of your story was making me question that.
> 
> 
> 
> I second Wazza's insinuation. Be honest, you came home when you were dumped by the other man, didn't you?


Not insinuation, fact...,I think.

LostAtSea, I don't want to beat you up. I am trying to help you see things as they are. For example, wasn't the attempt to force NC fighting for you? Did he hold the door for you when you went into the bathroom to talk to OM?

You have to get to the roots of what you did to understand it, so you can work on yourself.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Lost at sea said:


> The only thing that Malcolm could have done to stop me is what he did do, and that was expose me. Everything else was my immagination.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well okay. This may be the most important bit of information anyone reading this thread can take from this very sad situation.

Spouses, if you are being cheated on, EXPOSURE is the ONLY thing that will kill the affair. You heard it right here from a serial WW. The thrill is gone, and the "strange" is no longer strange when everybody knows about it.

I feel so sorry for this family.


----------



## MattMatt

Did you feel he should be happy for you to have found such great sex with the OM? Well, if he loves you, he'd want you to be happy, right? So, presumably he should have been happy you had a lover, right?

Well... wrong. That's not what happens in real life.


----------



## jim123

Wazza said:


> Not insinuation, fact...,I think.
> 
> LostAtSea, I don't want to beat you up. I am trying to help you see things as they are. For example, wasn't the attempt to force NC fighting for you? Did he hold the door for you when you went into the bathroom to talk to OM?
> 
> You have to get to the roots of what you did to understand it, so you can work on yourself.


The call was a set up. She could not leave and needed to be thrown out to make it easy on her. She knew what was going to happened. She refused to give OM up and knew what the results would be.

OM just happens to have a job. She has no where else to go.

LAS was going to leave Malcolm for the other man at some point. It just did not work out.


----------



## Summer4744

Lost at sea. Do you love your husband more as the father of our kids and as a friend than as a lover?


----------



## Idyit

I may be late to the party here but it seems there are some strong correlations between your story and The Bishop. Lost at Sea I would suggest reading his threads. Look for yourself in what is said and confessed. You are further along as at least some truth is known. Be brave enough to face yourself.


----------



## Wazza

jim123 said:


> The call was a set up. She could not leave and needed to be thrown out to make it easy on her. She knew what was going to happened. She refused to give OM up and knew what the results would be.
> 
> OM just happens to have a job. She has no where else to go.
> 
> LAS was going to leave Malcolm for the other man at some point. It just did not work out.


Possibly the call was a setup. Dunno if it matters.

Certainly she chose OM whenever she had a choice.i wonder if she sees that.


----------



## ing

Malaise said:


> Ditto


ditto


----------



## The-Deceived

I think you shouldn't try and get him back or wait for him at this point. You have so very much work to do on yourself before you should consider getting back with him - for his sake more than yours. You're a damaged person who is addicted to inflicting pain on your husband. It would not be fair to him to try and R, at least not now.

Cheating was a deal breaker for me, but not for all guys. But regardless of that, I realized my stbxww is so damaged, so messed up, so unable to be in a healthy relationship, that I would be a fool to wait around for her to "fix herself".

Imo the best thing you can do is try to live a good life, be honest, work on your serious problems and try to just be a decent person. You are a serial cheater - that is a horrible thing, and no man deserves to be with you and have that inflicted upon him.

Learn to be a decent person. And maybe, down the line, if you're _REALLY_ lucky, he may give you another shot. I certainly wouldn't.


----------



## The-Deceived

cledus_snow said:


> sometime an affair is a TOTAL dealbreaker..... simple as that.


This. So how about 4 affairs?


----------



## victarion

Live and learn I'd say at this point, what you've done is one of the worst things you can do to someone. Be vigilant in never becoming a repeat offender....


----------



## just got it 55

thats powerful


----------



## terrence4159

lol the deal breaker for me is a kiss... my wife knows this and this is her deal breaker also (she is safe work then the man cave dont have time or energy or WANT to cheat)


----------



## The-Deceived

bandit.45 said:


> I love that "wish he had fought for me" line.
> 
> Straight outta the cheater's script. Just another insipient way for the cheater to blame their bad behavior on their spouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup.


----------



## sandc

Lost at sea said:


> The only thing that Malcolm could have done to stop me is what he did do, and that was expose me. Everything else was my immagination.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So... really there was no way for him to fight for you was there? I mean there was no stopping you right?

To be fought for, you must be worthy to be fought for. You were not being a wife worthy of fighting for. Where you go from here though, is up to you.


----------



## hookares

LOVE?
Once a cheater ALWAYS a cheater.
For some people, a spouse is merely a convenience item.
If the item isn't performing as desired, move on to a different item.


----------



## MrQuatto

Hook, that's a bit of a stretch isn't it? There are examples on this board of the opposite. Some people can change for the better.


----------



## Tinkers

I just wish more people on this site were as magnanimous as Malcolm, and as introspective as Decorum...what do I mean...Malcolm did not come on here to invite people to be abhorrent to his wife...she cheated on him, not the members of this site..and if he can find it in his heart to treat her with dignity(like he said..she is still the mother of his children) I'm not sure why others on here can not...it really gets ridiculous the nastiness at which people post on here...I guess the saying should be "Hell hath no fury like a MAN scorned"...which I've ironically noticed the members on here save their best rants for female adulterers..like they are somehow worse than a male adulterer....and Decorum..your post was absolutely spot on!! As a father of 3 daughters I was hypnotized by your insight, and really thankful it wasn't the typical "kick the whor_ while she's down" post...I really think it was helpful, but painfully honest, and yet done in a compassionate way, like you knew it was going to be read by another human being..and regardless of her offense, you knew the best way for her to appreciate what you were trying to say was to articulate to her the depths to which she wronged her husband...if she can't understand EXACTLY what part of her husband's psyche she crushed from that post, she won't ever understand...


----------



## MattMatt

Tinkers said:


> I just wish more people on this site were as magnanimous as Malcolm, and as introspective as Decorum...what do I mean...Malcolm did not come on here to invite people to be abhorrent to his wife...she cheated on him, not the members of this site..and if he can find it in his heart to treat her with dignity(like he said..she is still the mother of his children) I'm not sure why others on here can not...it really gets ridiculous the nastiness at which people post on here...I guess the saying should be "Hell hath no fury like a MAN scorned"...which I've ironically noticed the members on here save their best rants for female adulterers..like they are somehow worse than a male adulterer....and Decorum..your post was absolutely spot on!! As a father of 3 daughters I was hypnotized by your insight, and really thankful it wasn't the typical "kick the whor_ while she's down" post...I really think it was helpful, but painfully honest, and yet done in a compassionate way, like you knew it was going to be read by another human being..and regardless of her offense, you knew the best way for her to appreciate what you were trying to say was to articulate to her the depths to which she wronged her husband...if she can't understand EXACTLY what part of her husband's psyche she crushed from that post, she won't ever understand...


Tinkers, it us because when they see someone else's WS, they see their own WS And make a reflex dig.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RyanBingham

Decorum said:


> Lost at sea,
> Some posters may question this statement but I do not. I believe you, more than that I could have predicted that you felt this way, and I will tell you why.
> 
> I’m sure Malcolm has his faults but he is a good man, a faithful husband, good father, protector and provider. He has been a good friend and companion. If you did not say you loved him I would think you were a terrible human being and I would not bother posting. How could you not love him "on some level", as your husband and the father of your children and I have no doubt he feels the same.
> 
> It is this issue of love “on some level” that the confusion and lack of clarity enters,. There are different kinds of love.
> 
> Let me give you an example. My wife and I have 4 children, two of whom are daughters (18 &22 yrs old).
> 
> They have captured my heart since the day they were born, I would and have gladly worked long hours for them, and sacrifice whatever I have left to help and be there for them. They love me and know I have their backs, no matter what. If it were necessary I would gladly spill every last drop of blood I have to protect them and thank God with my dying breath that they are safe.
> 
> One day God willing I will walk them down the aisle in a marriage ceremony and do what is called “Giving away the Bride” , this is more than just a meaningless gesture, something that happened to give the doddering old father something to do because he is paying for the wedding.
> 
> It is part of the wedding ceremony because it is true. The daily role that I served as their father is truly transferred to the new son in law, her husband. This transition takes place without jealously, there is no competition.
> 
> This new man will fill this role as well as that of lover and sexual partner, as it should be.
> 
> Every man when he marries his life partner is marrying his lover. She is the object of his desire; he looks for the passion in her eyes, the eagerness and enthusiasm in her kiss and lovemaking, he looks to see the submission in her femininity as she gives herself to him. He wants to know that he “rocks” her world and that they share something between them that is special and all their own.
> 
> No man marries a woman because he wants to adopt her as a daughter, no he is looking for a lover and companion, as a man I show love and receive love by being my partner’s lover.
> 
> *Well then, here are two levels of love, the father love, and the lover love.*
> 
> When you say that Malcolm is the only man you have ever loved, I believe you, but it is the father love you feel, it a response to his masculine love for you. As you step back and think “what have you done to this good man” and are truly horrified, you can realize now why you feel the way you do.
> 
> (Btw LAS you are not the first wayward spouse to stop at this waypoint and ask for directions, many get lost right here.)
> 
> The problem is that you have not always loved Malcolm as a lover .If you did at those times you could not bear to let another take his place, it would feel like rape to give yourself to another if Malcolm were your lover. It would make you feel like throwing up.
> 
> I suspect (if you are honest) that at times, especially under the influence of an affair, that your sexual attraction for Malcolm was in negative numbers, it’s the way woman are wired. There were times you had sex with Malcolm and were not interested in him or even repulsed at the thought, but you did it to try to disguise an affair.
> 
> This is what Jim and some others were trying to bring out earlier. (I believe)
> 
> 
> 
> Basically Lost, Malcolm has always been your husband and a good one but he has not always been your one and only lover, that special place has been “Let out” over the course of your whole marriage.
> 
> Sometimes it has come back to Malcolm perhaps, other times its given to strange men, but you are always on the lookout for a new interest.
> 
> You have considered yourself available since the time you began dating Malcolm. You have never transitioned to a settled state in married life. Your periodic failure has been assured from the beginning because of this.
> 
> There is no deeper answer as to why after this, everyone has to decide what kind of person they want to be, and you acting out what you wanted.
> 
> Malcolm knows this, whether he could put in into words or not, he now knows that he has only occasionally been your lover but always your husband.
> 
> This is the principle definition of the much abhorred cake eater so often spoke of here, Protector, provider, but not lover.
> 
> When Malcolm was considering reconciling with you, his question was not, can I be a husband to her, will she accept my protection and provision; no it was will she truly, finally and fully be my lover and mine alone.
> 
> Even you do not know at this point if you could finally and fully be his lover should he reconcile, you still think you have always loved him, but don't yet see, that you have not loved him on every level.
> 
> You don’t see it yet, and probably cannot see it yet.
> It will take time and work to clear the fog.
> 
> You were not really that interested in Malcolm sexually. (Now is a different matter, different dynamic.)
> 
> And that is one of the most painful and devastating realizations for a betrayed spouse, that as good as he thought things were they were not good enough for you to keep safe the special bond of sexual intimacy that he thought the two of you shared.
> 
> To him it will likely seem undeniable!
> 
> He will spend much time searching for an answer in himself as to why, it will forever be an unanswered question. You can try to take the blame but as a man when he knows you choose another over him, you will have no answer that will alleviate his question.
> 
> So yes you have always loved Malcolm, but you have not always been his lover, and that means everything to a man.



This is one of the most profound posts I've read on this forum. I've been lurking for awhile and have read through many anguished questions of Betrayed Spouses. The answers are usually direct and affirmative of the facts at hand, but never truly answering the root of "why?". Decourm, you've captured this so eloquently that I've bookmarked it and have read it several times.

Thank you.


----------



## Numb-badger

The father love is especially profound, that was the exact problem with my stbxw


----------



## F-102

It is now April 2nd. Are you still living in the house?


----------



## just got it 55

NO she is out


----------



## MattMatt

hookares said:


> LOVE?
> Once a cheater ALWAYS a cheater.
> For some people, a spouse is merely a convenience item.
> If the item isn't performing as desired, move on to a different item.


That's untrue. It's true for some people, possibly, but not all.


----------



## Vanguard

MattMatt said:


> Tinkers, it us because when they see someone else's WS, they see their own WS And make a reflex dig.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to disagree. This is just as much of a blanket statement as anything. Certainly that happens sometimes but some people simply have righteous wrath against infidelity.


----------



## hopefulgirl

Decorum said:


> Lost at sea,
> Some posters may question this statement but I do not. I believe you, more than that I could have predicted that you felt this way, and I will tell you why.
> 
> I’m sure Malcolm has his faults but he is a good man, a faithful husband, good father, protector and provider. He has been a good friend and companion. If you did not say you loved him I would think you were a terrible human being and I would not bother posting. How could you not love him "on some level", as your husband and the father of your children and I have no doubt he feels the same.
> 
> It is this issue of love “on some level” that the confusion and lack of clarity enters,. There are different kinds of love.
> 
> Let me give you an example. My wife and I have 4 children, two of whom are daughters (18 &22 yrs old).
> 
> They have captured my heart since the day they were born, I would and have gladly worked long hours for them, and sacrifice whatever I have left to help and be there for them. They love me and know I have their backs, no matter what. If it were necessary I would gladly spill every last drop of blood I have to protect them and thank God with my dying breath that they are safe.
> 
> One day God willing I will walk them down the aisle in a marriage ceremony and do what is called “Giving away the Bride” , this is more than just a meaningless gesture, something that happened to give the doddering old father something to do because he is paying for the wedding.
> 
> It is part of the wedding ceremony because it is true. The daily role that I served as their father is truly transferred to the new son in law, her husband. This transition takes place without jealously, there is no competition.
> 
> This new man will fill this role as well as that of lover and sexual partner, as it should be.
> 
> Every man when he marries his life partner is marrying his lover. She is the object of his desire; he looks for the passion in her eyes, the eagerness and enthusiasm in her kiss and lovemaking, he looks to see the submission in her femininity as she gives herself to him. He wants to know that he “rocks” her world and that they share something between them that is special and all their own.
> 
> No man marries a woman because he wants to adopt her as a daughter, no he is looking for a lover and companion, as a man I show love and receive love by being my partner’s lover.
> 
> *Well then, here are two levels of love, the father love, and the lover love.*
> 
> When you say that Malcolm is the only man you have ever loved, I believe you, but it is the father love you feel, it a response to his masculine love for you. As you step back and think “what have you done to this good man” and are truly horrified, you can realize now why you feel the way you do.
> 
> (Btw LAS you are not the first wayward spouse to stop at this waypoint and ask for directions, many get lost right here.)
> 
> The problem is that you have not always loved Malcolm as a lover .If you did at those times you could not bear to let another take his place, it would feel like rape to give yourself to another if Malcolm were your lover. It would make you feel like throwing up.
> 
> I suspect (if you are honest) that at times, especially under the influence of an affair, that your sexual attraction for Malcolm was in negative numbers, it’s the way woman are wired. There were times you had sex with Malcolm and were not interested in him or even repulsed at the thought, but you did it to try to disguise an affair.
> 
> This is what Jim and some others were trying to bring out earlier. (I believe)
> 
> 
> Basically Lost, Malcolm has always been your husband and a good one but he has not always been your one and only lover, that special place has been “Let out” over the course of your whole marriage.
> 
> Sometimes it has come back to Malcolm perhaps, other times its given to strange men, but you are always on the lookout for a new interest.
> 
> You have considered yourself available since the time you began dating Malcolm. You have never transitioned to a settled state in married life. Your periodic failure has been assured from the beginning because of this.
> 
> There is no deeper answer as to why after this, everyone has to decide what kind of person they want to be, and you acting out what you wanted.
> 
> Malcolm knows this, whether he could put in into words or not, he now knows that he has only occasionally been your lover but always your husband.
> 
> This is the principle definition of the much abhorred cake eater so often spoke of here, Protector, provider, but not lover.
> 
> When Malcolm was considering reconciling with you, his question was not, can I be a husband to her, will she accept my protection and provision; no it was will she truly, finally and fully be my lover and mine alone.
> 
> Even you do not know at this point if you could finally and fully be his lover should he reconcile, you still think you have always loved him, but don't yet see, that you have not loved him on every level.
> 
> You don’t see it yet, and probably cannot see it yet.
> It will take time and work to clear the fog.
> 
> You were not really that interested in Malcolm sexually. (Now is a different matter, different dynamic.)
> 
> And that is one of the most painful and devastating realizations for a betrayed spouse, that as good as he thought things were they were not good enough for you to keep safe the special bond of sexual intimacy that he thought the two of you shared.
> 
> To him it will likely seem undeniable!
> 
> He will spend much time searching for an answer in himself as to why, it will forever be an unanswered question. You can try to take the blame but as a man when he knows you choose another over him, you will have no answer that will alleviate his question.
> 
> So yes you have always loved Malcolm, but you have not always been his lover, and that means everything to a man.


I'm a little bit surprised by this theoretical orientation. It suggests that waywards in general are incapable of loving their spouses during their affairs, and LostAtSea in particular was incapable of ever having loved her husband as a wife truly should. 

I don't agree with the generalization (I'm sure my WS DID love me during the period of his temporary insanity), and I question anybody's ability to know what "kind" of love LostAtSea had for her husband at any point during her marriage.

It's rather demeaning (if not a little disturbing) to suggest to LostAtSea that she has seen herself as a daughter-figure to Malcolm all along. Ick.

People can love vanilla ice cream and strawberry ice cream at the same time. Why is it so hard to believe that someone could love their spouse and yet still be a messed up nutball and cheat on them?


----------



## Wazza

hopefulgirl said:


> I'm a little bit surprised by this theoretical orientation. It suggests that waywards in general are incapable of loving their spouses during their affairs, and LostAtSea in particular was incapable of ever having loved her husband as a wife truly should.
> 
> I don't agree with the generalization (I'm sure my WS DID love me during the period of his temporary insanity), and I question anybody's ability to know what "kind" of love LostAtSea had for her husband at any point during her marriage.
> 
> It's rather demeaning (if not a little disturbing) to suggest to LostAtSea that she has seen herself as a daughter-figure to Malcolm all along. Ick.
> 
> People can love vanilla ice cream and strawberry ice cream at the same time. Why is it so hard to believe that someone could love their spouse and yet still be a messed up nutball and cheat on them?


I think Decorum'a argument was deeper than that.

LostAtSea says she has always loved Malcolm and no other. You have to question how Lost could be in love with Malcolm and have four affairs over basically the length of the mariage. You have to question how, when Malcolm drew a line in the sand on the last affair, she crossed it, choosing the other man, being willing to leave her husband and kids, and only coming back when OM dumped her.

This is not me beating up on Lost. I am listing facts which have not been disputed.

After my wife's affair, staying for the kids, I found myself developing feelings for someone else. My actions were appropriate in the situation. I told my wife and the other woman and avoided situations that could be inappropriate. So my actions were consistent with love for my wife.....but in my head I wanted to leave her for this other woman, who had not betrayed me as she had. I wanted the chance at happiness. So you would probably have to say that emotionally I was not in love with my wife.

You can lust after two people. You can selfishly want two people in your life. But I think it is harder to imagine both of them sustaining the number one spot in things.

Lost, lots of discussion about you here. I know you have your hands full right now, but hope you will find time to be more active on the thread...think it may help your self examination.


----------



## eric415

hopefulgirl said:


> I'm a little bit surprised by this theoretical orientation. It suggests that waywards in general are incapable of loving their spouses during their affairs, and LostAtSea in particular was incapable of ever having loved her husband as a wife truly should.
> 
> I don't agree with the generalization (I'm sure my WS DID love me during the period of his temporary insanity), and I question anybody's ability to know what "kind" of love LostAtSea had for her husband at any point during her marriage.
> 
> It's rather demeaning (if not a little disturbing) to suggest to LostAtSea that she has seen herself as a daughter-figure to Malcolm all along. Ick.
> 
> People can love vanilla ice cream and strawberry ice cream at the same time. Why is it so hard to believe that someone could love their spouse and yet still be a messed up nutball and cheat on them?


"What is love? 
Baby don't hurt, don't hurt me, no more"

- Haddaway


----------



## RyanBingham

hopefulgirl said:


> I'm a little bit surprised by this theoretical orientation. It suggests that waywards in general are incapable of loving their spouses during their affairs, and LostAtSea in particular was incapable of ever having loved her husband as a wife truly should.
> 
> I don't agree with the generalization (I'm sure my WS DID love me during the period of his temporary insanity), and I question anybody's ability to know what "kind" of love LostAtSea had for her husband at any point during her marriage.
> 
> It's rather demeaning (if not a little disturbing) to suggest to LostAtSea that she has seen herself as a daughter-figure to Malcolm all along. Ick.
> 
> People can love vanilla ice cream and strawberry ice cream at the same time. Why is it so hard to believe that someone could love their spouse and yet still be a messed up nutball and cheat on them?


What you are missing is the point about "passion" vs. "comfort/security". I'm sure at one point Lost had the passion in her heart for Malcolm. But maybe it was just a fleeting point in time. I dont really know her, but her actions signal an emptiness she tried to fill with her affair (passion). She didnt try to fill that love by remodeling the fireplace and snuggling by the open flame with Malcolm.

I think Lost believes her love for Malcolm is in the totality of her heart (both comfort and passion), but really the love she misses are the comfort and the stability that the marital bubble created. The romantic passion that Malcolm deserved and expected from her was absent for a long time. 

What Lost described as her love for Malcolm was only her love of the life she once had (comfort/security), not the desire that she had nurtured and craved in the bedroom (passion) with him. 

That's my 2 cents.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

MattMatt said:


> That's untrue. It's true for some people, possibly, but not all.


You wish.


----------



## BobSimmons

hopefulgirl said:


> I'm a little bit surprised by this theoretical orientation. It suggests that waywards in general are incapable of loving their spouses during their affairs, and LostAtSea in particular was incapable of ever having loved her husband as a wife truly should.
> 
> I don't agree with the generalization (I'm sure my WS DID love me during the period of his temporary insanity), and I question anybody's ability to know what "kind" of love LostAtSea had for her husband at any point during her marriage.
> 
> It's rather demeaning (if not a little disturbing) to suggest to LostAtSea that she has seen herself as a daughter-figure to Malcolm all along. Ick.
> 
> People can love vanilla ice cream and strawberry ice cream at the same time. Why is it so hard to believe that someone could love their spouse and yet still be a messed up nutball and cheat on them?


People throw this word love around like cheap confetti. Love whenever they get the slightest tingle of emotion, Love when they have the best sex of their lives with someone.

It depends on what a persons definition of love is. If your love is the same love you love your ice cream or your favorite shirt or your car then it is possible to "love" your spouse and simultaneously lie, dishonor and desecrate the sanctity of your marriage/relationship

If you loved your partner and somehow became attracted to someone then you would not lie to them, as terrible as it is you would tell them or try to find the source of why you feel compelled to act on this attraction. Is love not the truth? Is love not sacrifice, compassion, passion, respect, honor and friendship?

I just can't imagine it. Loving someone then doing the worst thing that could possible that will hurt them. A connection of familiarity yes, that you can compartmentalize while you go about the deeds, push the thoughts way way away into the darkest recesses so they don't pop up when you're with the person. But love..as the saying goes should have brought your tail home last night.

p.s this is in response to what the lady said..nothing to do with lost.


----------



## Jonesey

Love is just a VERB..
Just saying


----------



## hopefulgirl

I joke about my WS's temporary insanity (the period of time when he was in his EA then PA), but there's a grain of truth in it. LostAtSea and many other WS's may really be a little "out to lunch" when they behave this way too. I mean no disrespect when I say this, but the compartmentalizing (and the lying) that they are capable of is something that they probably should all seek some IC for. I think most of them have "issues" - but I would never go so far as to suggest that any of them loved their spouses more as parent-figures. 

Most of us BS's just can't get our heads around how they compartmentalize like that, so many of us assume it's impossible to love someone and yet cheat on them too.

But people who are alcoholics love their spouses, do bad things behind their backs, lie to them, live secret lives, etc., and yet still love their spouses. You can be messed up and know you're behaving badly and feel guilty and even realize it's time to stop but be too weak to extricate yourself from that kind of life. But you can know, even in that fog, that you still love your spouse.

Cheating may hurt more than alcoholism (some spouses of alcoholics might beg to differ), but until I was cheated on, I had no clue how much it hurt. So I'm sure most cheaters don't know beforehand either.

My point is that I think it's fine if we want to have our own definitions of love, but I think it's patronizing to suggest that LostAtSea loved Malcolm mostly as a "provider" and didn't love him much of the time as a "lover." No one else can really know that about her.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

hopefulgirl said:


> but I think it's patronizing to suggest that LostAtSea loved Malcolm mostly as a "provider" and didn't love him much of the time as a "lover." No one else can really know that about her.


Unfortunately I think that's exactly what it means. When a WS lusts after/desires and gives all their sexual attention to another person, they no longer think of their husband/wife as a lover but rather as a problem. Their desire and their regard for their husband/wife tends to drop like a parachuter without a parachute.

Affairs change the love you had for your spouse. In many cases, the wayward one believes that they no longer love them. It's the ILYBINILWY line.


----------



## Decorum

Hopefulgirl,





hopefulgirl said:


> I'm a little bit surprised by this theoretical orientation. It suggests that waywards in general are incapable of loving their spouses during their affairs, and LostAtSea in particular was incapable of ever having loved her husband as a wife truly should.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * "It suggests that waywards in general, and Lost at Sea in particular… I don't agree with the generalization" *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> TBH I was writing to Malcolm about LAS in particular, I disagree that it suggest the generalization you infer, and I certainly did not imply that.
> 
> For example I would not apply it to your husband because he has never been a bride nor a woman as far as I know.
> 
> So we both agree that we do not agree with the generalization you inferred.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [I don't agree with the generalization (I'm sure my WS DID love me during the period of his temporary insanity), and I question anybody's ability to know what "kind" of love LostAtSea had for her husband at any point during her marriage.
> 
> It's rather demeaning (if not a little disturbing) to suggest to LostAtSea that she has seen herself as a daughter-figure to Malcolm all along. Ick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Ick is right! I am glad that I don’t think that LAS sees herself as Malcolms daughter. Again I don’t know why your mind went there but we agree.*
> 
> 
> 
> hopefulgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> *People can love vanilla ice cream and strawberry ice cream at the same time. Why is it so hard to believe that someone could love their spouse and yet still be a messed up nutball and cheat on them?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Hopefulgirl, I am sorry for the pain you have experienced from your husband’s infidelity, and I don’t want to be unkind here, but this is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard on TAM.*
> 
> *In every case that I see on TAM the connection that a woman needs in order to have romantic love with a man is nothing like the connection she needs to have with a bowl of ice cream in order to eat it.
> 
> If you want to be the first then please speak up, and I will make a note of it.
> 
> In most cases when the wife connects with an AP she loses her connection with the husband and begins to feel like he is a brother or roommate. Often at that point, while they still may be able to share a bowel of ice cream she is repulsed by the thought of sex with him, it is documented over and over again here. I won’t do all the heavy lifting here so just go and see for yourself.*
Click to expand...







hopefulgirl said:


> I joke about my WS's temporary insanity (the period of time when he was in his EA then PA), but there's a grain of truth in it. LostAtSea and many other WS's may really be a little "out to lunch" when they behave this way too. I mean no disrespect when I say this, but the compartmentalizing (and the lying) that they are capable of is something that they probably should all seek some IC for. I think most of them have "issues" - but I would never go so far as to suggest that any of them loved their spouses more as parent-figures.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hopefulgirl, I don’t know what you think about the differences that exist between men and woman, it could be that we differ enough on this that any meaningful discussion would be impossible without some time spent to find some common ground as a starting point.
> 
> I am going to proceed as if we have more in agreement than not, if it turns out the opposite is true than that is more of a discussion than I care to be a party to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “but I would never go so far as to suggest that any of them loved their spouses more as parent-figures".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If by this you mean that I was suggesting some kind Oedipus/ Electra complex, then your comprehension of my meaning is way off base, and you are making it much harder than it needs to be for some reason.
> 
> When a wife betrays, lies and cheats on her husband for a couple years, is repulsed by the thought of sex with him, re-writes their marriage history and generally badmouths him to everyone, and then she is caught, and is transformed in a remorseful spouse one of the first things they often say “I don’t know how I could do this to him he is such a good man, he has always been a good provider and father to our kids, I have always admired and loved that about him”.
> 
> What I am suggesting is that she is identifying the qualities of protector and provider as the reasons for he “never failing” admiration for him, this is a man’s role (there I said it), it was the role her father filled first for her, and her husband fulfilled thereafter.
> 
> By this I DO NOT mean to say she thinks of him as her father, like her father, is confused sexually about her father ick.
> 
> Btw this is the best I can figure how to say it, if you can’t get it from here you are on your own.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Most of us BS's just can't get our heads around how they compartmentalize like that, so many of us assume it's impossible to love someone and yet cheat on them too.
> 
> But people who are alcoholics love their spouses, do bad things behind their backs, lie to them, live secret lives, etc., and yet still love their spouses. You can be messed up and know you're behaving badly and feel guilty and even realize it's time to stop but be too weak to extricate yourself from that kind of life. But you can know, even in that fog, that you still love your spouse.
> 
> Cheating may hurt more than alcoholism (some spouses of alcoholics might beg to differ), but until I was cheated on, I had no clue how much it hurt. So I'm sure most cheaters don't know beforehand either.
> 
> My point is that I think it's fine if we want to have our own definitions of love, but I think it's patronizing to suggest that LostAtSea loved Malcolm mostly as a "provider" and didn't love him much of the time as a "lover." *No one else can really know that about her.*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




> *No one else can really know that about her.*


Actually you yourself said


> *“I'm sure my WS DID love me during the period of his temporary insanity”*


So if you were “sure’ about your wayward husband's love for you during his infidelity perhaps you will grant to Malcolm the same assurance, if so then please read his quote…



Malcolm38 said:


> Decorum posted it to perfection.
> All I was doing while reading that is nodding my head in the affirmative.
> 
> I'm sure that she actually does love me. But it is as a father figure and not as a lover. Obviously not, as I've been replaced multiple times. Mostly without my knowledge.


Perhaps I have done Malcolm a disservice and put that whacko idea in his head and your assurance will whack it out of there, but you seem to want it both ways.

However, granting that he can know, your objection may be, “how could Decorum possibly know that?”, I am willing to assign it to luck if you are incredulous.

If my point was nonsense then those who read it were free to ignore it and move on.

Another quote, this time from Malcolm’s own thread…



Malcolm38 said:


> Feeling a bit better today.
> We've talked about a lot of things the last few days while moving her out. I think she does love me. But as mentioned here previously, I think it is a fatherly love she feels for me. I'm honestly not sure she is capable of romantic love. Maybe she is, but I don't think she has felt that yet for anyone.


I think it's unlikely that you will be posting any time soon to Malcolm “No one else can really know that about her”

Here is where I think the problem is. You have a reaction to me, an negative emotional reaction, and so any logical arguments or defense I offer cannot address this, because we are not talking about the same thing.

You have said,


> “I think it's patronizing to suggest”
> “It's rather demeaning (if not a little disturbing) to suggest”
> “No one else can really know that about her”
> “I'm a little bit surprised by this theoretical orientation.”
> “but I would never go so far as to suggest”


Since you say that I am patronizing LAS, here is a snippet from the web about being patronizing.


> *If you are patronizing, you tend to speak down to others, acting as though you are smarter, classier, or just plain better than anyone else. For the record, your snobby attitude is not impressing anyone.*


*Ah so this is me (Decorum) being patronizing to LAS, ouch!*

It would have been so much easier and used up less thread space to just pm me and say, “Decorum I think you are Pompous and Patronizing and I don’t like the way you come across”
BTW you would not have been the first to have said that, 

Well Hopefulgirl I am sorry you feel that way, 
I will lick my wounds and think about it, 
in the meantime if you don’t happen to like me pass me by!

I wish you all the best, 

Take care!


----------



## MattMatt

hopefulgirl said:


> I'm a little bit surprised by this theoretical orientation. It suggests that waywards in general are incapable of loving their spouses during their affairs, and LostAtSea in particular was incapable of ever having loved her husband as a wife truly should.
> 
> I don't agree with the generalization (I'm sure my WS DID love me during the period of his temporary insanity), and I question anybody's ability to know what "kind" of love LostAtSea had for her husband at any point during her marriage.
> 
> It's rather demeaning (if not a little disturbing) to suggest to LostAtSea that she has seen herself as a daughter-figure to Malcolm all along. Ick.
> 
> People can love vanilla ice cream and strawberry ice cream at the same time. Why is it so hard to believe that someone could love their spouse and yet still be a messed up nutball and cheat on them?


You are right. I loved my wife very much during my affair. But I did resent her. Or else how could I have cheated? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NewM

hopefulgirl said:


> Most of us BS's just can't get our heads around how they compartmentalize like that, so many of us assume it's impossible to love someone and yet cheat on them too.


Compartmentalize? She was planing to move away form her family to be with OM,I don't see any compartmentalization here.


hopefulgirl said:


> But people who are alcoholics love their spouses, do bad things behind their backs, lie to them, live secret lives, etc., and yet still love their spouses. You can be messed up and know you're behaving badly and feel guilty and even realize it's time to stop but be too weak to extricate yourself from that kind of life. But you can know, even in that fog, that you still love your spouse.


This analogy is flawed as alcoholic isn't having sex with alcohol.She had sex and wanted to have sex with other guys and still loved Malcolm but more as a good husband and dad for her daughters.


----------



## Decorum

MattMatt said:


> You are right. I loved my wife very much during my affair. But I did resent her. Or else how could I have cheated?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MattMatt, If Hopefulgirl's sole bone of contention (and the object of her emotional angts) is that indeed her husband still loved her during his infidelity, in reality I would not only agree that it is possible but moreover that it is liklely.

Since, in my observation, it is more likely that a man does not disconnect from his wife emotionally but rather is just looking for some strange. (not you MattMatt)

Often for a man its about the sex and for a woman its about the attention though not exclusively so in either case, and I think RDMU thread will prove to be that way for his wife.

The problem is that if its an attention issue (be it man or woman) the WS tends to severely dissconnect from the BS.

So while in general I do believe that for a man its about the sex and for a woman its about the attention, I would be hard pressed to prove this, however on a case by case basis it seems axiomatic enough that I would question the knowledge and or the objectivity of someone who argured against it. (i.e. it would be a matter of ignorance or bias or both.)

In LAS's case it seems clear to me that while the train was going down the track and she was following along, she was in fact a loose caboose.


----------



## Rckbttm

Lostatsea, I am going through this exact thing with my WW now. You two are very much the same from what i have read with the exception of her still not feeling remorseful of having the affair only to have me catch her the second time with the same OM adn thousands of lies in between. You have been blasted enough by others here as much as i want to add my opinion on you. My question is, what are you asking for in the settlement? You see if you want to truly feel remorseful now with your marriage ending I recomend you argue nothing and give your STBXH the majority of what he is asking! The damage you have caused I can tell you will never be forgotten by him and you have literally stolen all that is sacred to him as a man..husband ..and father...so you really deserve nothing in the end! Sorry, that is MHO but the question still stands....what are you expecting out of this?? I respect the fact you are here and trust me you will learn a lot from these folks as i have. Get yourself fixed so you do not destroy someone else down the road.


----------



## hopefulgirl

It pains me to say it Decorum, but I think we agree on something. 

LAS wasn't thinking clearly ("loose caboose"). 

I think she would do well to get some IC for assistance in figuring out why she repeatedly cheated on her husband. I feel bad for Malcolm (as a BS, I can really relate), and I also feel bad for LostAtSea, who came here looking for some help, as she is truly "Lost." 

I also agree that more men can cheat for "mostly" just the sex than women can, though there are women who can do that too.

I had a problem with your definition of love, and we can agree to disagree. I was most troubled by your choosing to put in bold ONLY the following in your post about what kind of love you thought LAS had for her husband:

*Well then, here are two levels of love, the father love, and the lover love.*

Of all the points you made, I thought that to highlight ONLY this might lead someone who only skimmed your post to get the message that it was your main point, and your main message to LAS. I was afraid LAS might feel you were telling HER she sees Malcolm as a father figure. I don't think it was your intent, but the bolding of only that line could be construed as "here it is, LAS - the take away. You didn't have the one kind of love, so that means you had the other kind for your husband."

Don't worry - I'm not having "emotional angst," though I was concerned about LAS's possible reaction to your post. I'm not trying to "impress anybody" with my "snobby attitude," as you put it. I was concerned about LAS's feelings in reaction to your post, that's all.

Anyway, we agree that LAS wasn't thinking clearly when she behaved the way she did. And more men can cheat for mainly just sex than women. On the other stuff, let's agree to disagree.


----------



## Decorum

hopefulgirl said:


> It pains me to say it Decorum, but I think we agree on something.
> 
> LAS wasn't thinking clearly ("loose caboose").
> 
> I think she would do well to get some IC for assistance in figuring out why she repeatedly cheated on her husband. I feel bad for Malcolm (as a BS, I can really relate), and I also feel bad for LostAtSea, who came here looking for some help, as she is truly "Lost."
> 
> I also agree that more men can cheat for "mostly" just the sex than women can, though there are women who can do that too.
> 
> I had a problem with your definition of love, and we can agree to disagree. I was most troubled by your choosing to put in bold ONLY the following in your post about what kind of love you thought LAS had for her husband:
> 
> *Well then, here are two levels of love, the father love, and the lover love.*
> 
> Of all the points you made, I thought that to highlight ONLY this might lead someone who only skimmed your post to get the message that it was your main point, and your main message to LAS. I was afraid LAS might feel you were telling HER she sees Malcolm as a father figure. I don't think it was your intent, but the bolding of only that line could be construed as "here it is, LAS - the take away. You didn't have the one kind of love, so that means you had the other kind for your husband."
> 
> Don't worry - I'm not having "emotional angst," though I was concerned about LAS's possible reaction to your post. I'm not trying to "impress anybody" with my "snobby attitude," as you put it. I was concerned about LAS's feelings in reaction to your post, that's all.
> 
> Anyway, we agree that LAS wasn't thinking clearly when she behaved the way she did. And more men can cheat for mainly just sex than women. On the other stuff, let's agree to disagree.



Ha ha ha ha ha agreed!
Btw you mis-read my intent for the snippet from the web on being patronizing.

It was not directed at you, you said I was patronizing LAS, so I posted it to put its meaning on the table for the purpose of evaulation. Again not with you in mind as the subject, but myself, as a result of your expressed opinion.

Which is to say that I never said nor meant to say that you were trying to "impress anybody" with your "snobby attitude", that may not have been clear, sorry for the misunderstanding.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars

Lost, How are you doing? How is Malcolm?


----------



## His_Wife_77

Hello there, I hope you're doing well. 

I am a wife who had an affair. My affair however was spawn out of revenge for my husbands online and emotional affairs. He had about 3. When I found out, he didn't care about how I felt. That, hurted me more than the affairs themselves. Fast forward some time later, I had my affair and now, he cares about EVERYTHING. But at first, we separated and was on our way to divorce. 
Here is what I did. 
1 - I HATED THE FACT THAT I HAD AN AFFAIR regardless of WHAT led me there. The pain I caused my husband was enough for me to NEVER want to do it again. And I mean that with everything in me. I'D NEVER DO THAT TO HIM AGAIN. And now, he feels the same about me.. 
2 - I ended EVERYTHING and burned the bridge while I was at it. 
3 - I sought counseling for MYSELF. Some of what I did had to do with my husband's affairs, but when I was gut-wrenching honest, some of it was all me. 
4 - I take things day by day. I work on myself daily. And as a result, my husband has went from being hell bent on getting a divorce to..let's work things out and REALLY try. 

I, like you had a need for attention as well. Unfortunately, I sought it in the worst way. Now I am in the process of rebuilding my life and my marriage. 

I would highly recommend counselng. It would definitely help to shed light on things. Although your husband wants a divorce, you owe it to him to assist in helping him heal - regardless. You guys have many years together and children. This process would also help YOU heal as a person as well. 

I really hope things work out for you both.


----------



## Lost at sea

Hubby has been talking alot with me lately eventhough i am not living at home. I have been in therapy and told him for the first time about my sexual abuse as a child. Its not an excuse but its domething thar i think really really f*d me up in the way that i think. 

My concern now is his damn ex girlfriend from high school is trying to contact him. He hasnt done anything about it and told me when he got the email. But i am jealous and dont care for that b###h at sll. Plus she is better looking than me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

He didn't care for your affair, no?


----------



## JCD

Lost at sea said:


> Hubby has been talking alot with me lately eventhough i am not living at home. I have been in therapy and told him for the first time about my sexual abuse as a child. Its not an excuse but its domething thar i think really really f*d me up in the way that i think.
> 
> My concern now is his damn ex girlfriend from high school is trying to contact him. He hasnt done anything about it and told me when he got the email. But i am jealous and dont care for that b###h at sll. Plus she is better looking than me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you guys move?

She isn't the mother of his child. Continue what you are doing.


----------



## Lost at sea

I live inan appt nearby. We have been dating again and he is undecided about wanting to divorce me. Its been nice to have time with him lately. I have to admit his ex also triedto leave him a facebook note ad well and i just deleted itbefore he could see it. Its hypocritical i admit but i really get jealous if a woman notices myhusband. Espevially her. He has good boundaries, but with everything i amworried he will be receptive to the tramp. She does this every five years or so.....put out little feelers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

LAS, with all due respect, when you flagrantly left your husband to go be with the other man you essentially ended your marriage and relationship with him. This was months ago. 

I think it is great that he is dating you and allowing you to show him your remorse and willingness to work on your issues and become a new woman he can trust and be proud to walk down the street with. 

Understand that, for all intents and purposes, you are only his wife on paper. On terms of intimacy, emotional connection, and datability, you no longer exist in an exalted place in his life. You and the ex GF are on equal footing in his life now. You have competition, and it is up to your husband to decide wether or not he wants to give this ex GF a shot at the title. 

You have no say in it. I'm sorry, but the Karma bus is a triple decker that leans hard around corners. It is a bumpy, seasickening ride, and all you can do is hold on for dear life and hope hubby meets you at the bus stop.


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## Decorum

LAS,
There is no doubt that you have the inside track with your husband.
Please work on yourself and become a better person, because he deserves better from you than he has received so far.

If he took you back right now can you be honest enough to admit that you cannot be sure yet that you would not cheat on him again?

Its a hard question to face, but its early and you have a long way to go. If he is willing to consider you again, then its not to much to ask for you to face the hard truth , grow and move on is it?

You have a real shot at reconcilation, I hope you take it seriously and honestly!!

Please dont take this the wrong way, but I would like to know, have you been drinking and posting?

Drinking will hinder your efforts to grow and reconcile.

LAS I do wish you well!

Take care!


----------



## MattMatt

His_Wife_77 said:


> Hello there, I hope you're doing well.
> 
> I am a wife who had an affair. My affair however was spawn out of revenge for my husbands online and emotional affairs. He had about 3. When I found out, he didn't care about how I felt. That, hurted me more than the affairs themselves. Fast forward some time later, I had my affair and now, he cares about EVERYTHING. But at first, we separated and was on our way to divorce.
> Here is what I did.
> 1 - I HATED THE FACT THAT I HAD AN AFFAIR regardless of WHAT led me there. The pain I caused my husband was enough for me to NEVER want to do it again. And I mean that with everything in me. I'D NEVER DO THAT TO HIM AGAIN. And now, he feels the same about me..
> 2 - I ended EVERYTHING and burned the bridge while I was at it.
> 3 - I sought counseling for MYSELF. Some of what I did had to do with my husband's affairs, but when I was gut-wrenching honest, some of it was all me.
> 4 - I take things day by day. I work on myself daily. And as a result, my husband has went from being hell bent on getting a divorce to..let's work things out and REALLY try.
> 
> I, like you had a need for attention as well. Unfortunately, I sought it in the worst way. Now I am in the process of rebuilding my life and my marriage.
> 
> I would highly recommend counselng. It would definitely help to shed light on things. Although your husband wants a divorce, you owe it to him to assist in helping him heal - regardless. You guys have many years together and children. This process would also help YOU heal as a person as well.
> 
> I really hope things work out for you both.


And HW, there's the pain our revenge affairs cause us. I was stunned (if that's the right word?) to find that my revenge affair (that just avoided going all the way) hurt me more than my wife's affair had hurt me.


----------



## NewM

Lost at sea said:


> She does this every five years or so.....put out little feelers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is same timeline that you cheated on him,at the beginning then 5years in then 10 years into your marriage.Maybe she knew what is going on.


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## Headspin

Lost at sea said:


> *his ex also triedto leave him a facebook note ad well and i just deleted itbefore he could see it. Its hypocritical i admit but i really get jealous if a woman notices myhusband.*_Posted via Mobile Device_


Christ on a bike! Whaaat?

Once again one can only question the thought process. And when he finds out you did that (like he will) how you gonna explain that?

I just don't get people 

.......I don't


----------



## just got it 55

Lost at sea said:


> I live inan appt nearby. We have been dating again and he is undecided about wanting to divorce me. Its been nice to have time with him lately. I have to admit his ex also triedto leave him a facebook note ad well and i just deleted itbefore he could see it. Its hypocritical i admit but i really get jealous if a woman notices myhusband. Espevially her. He has good boundaries, but with everything i amworried he will be receptive to the tramp. She does this every five years or so.....put out little feelers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LAS it's good to see you back Keep at it hope it works out.


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## AlphaHalf

what position are you in to be jealous and calling another women a tramp?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Summer4744

Las. Having been away from your husband for sometime now, do you have a better idea of how you feel for him? Do you really love him as a husband, or more as a good provider?


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## cledus_snow

> He has good boundaries, but with everything i amworried he will be receptive to *the tramp*.


the last person who should call anyone names like "tramp" is you. sorry..... had to say it.


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## cpacan

*Sv: Re: I had an affair and my husband is divorcing me*



cledus_snow said:


> the last person who should call anyone names like "tramp" is you. sorry..... had to say it.


It's called "projections"...


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## warlock07

Lost at sea said:


> I live inan appt nearby. We have been dating again and he is undecided about wanting to divorce me. Its been nice to have time with him lately. I have to admit his ex also triedto leave him a facebook note ad well and i just deleted itbefore he could see it. Its hypocritical i admit but i really get jealous if a woman notices myhusband. Espevially her. He has good boundaries, but with everything i amworried he will be receptive to the tramp. She does this every five years or so.....put out little feelers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:crazy:

Crazy is as crazy does

Why do you have his account details ? Why are you still checking up on him ?


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## Vanguard

Did you just call someone a tramp?


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## Lost at sea

Malcolms dad has a tumor they just found on friday. All relationship talk is on hold for the time being. He will have to devote as much time as he can to his father. They are very close. He has kind of been walking around in a daze the last day or two. We had lunch today and he was just kind of staring into space. Which makes me wish i could do something to help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound

I will keep the family in my thoughts.


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## happyman64

You can help. Be there for Malcolm in any capacity that he will allow.


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## jim123

Lost at sea said:


> Malcolms dad has a tumor they just found on friday. All relationship talk is on hold for the time being. He will have to devote as much time as he can to his father. They are very close. He has kind of been walking around in a daze the last day or two. We had lunch today and he was just kind of staring into space. Which makes me wish i could do something to help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My best to Malcom and his dad,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dave_nz

until you are on the receiving end of an affair you have no idea of the pain they cause. You should either, talk about the problems, or leave if you are that unhappy.


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## JCD

Lost at sea said:


> Malcolms dad has a tumor they just found on friday. All relationship talk is on hold for the time being. He will have to devote as much time as he can to his father. They are very close. He has kind of been walking around in a daze the last day or two. We had lunch today and he was just kind of staring into space. Which makes me wish i could do something to help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Simple. Cook and quick freeze meals for him. Take care of the boy as needed.

Put directions on the meals for how long to heat them in the microwave. He might be distracted enough to need the help.

See if he wants you to swing by once a week to help clean the house out. Swear you won't snoop or get into his stuff.

Also, if it's appropriate, call his mom and see if she needs someone to talk to. It's a kind gesture, even if you aren't her favorite person right now. Since you are outside, it might make things easier for her. Make sure you have about three good anecdotes about him to share with her.

Tell Matt you are available he wants, but let him approach. Mention to your superiors that you may, MAY need bereavement leave to go to his funeral so they can plan accordingly since your schedule is so tight with shows and such.

See if you can arrange babysitters on call in case of emergency where you aren't available or make arrangements with your work if you need to leave at the last minute for the same.

Get a fetching black dress which is funeral appropriate but still not out of order for a formal dinner.

This is basic stuff, but I'm betting you are traumatized as well and not thinking clearly.


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## His_Wife_77

MattMatt said:


> And HW, there's the pain our revenge affairs cause us. I was stunned (if that's the right word?) to find that my revenge affair (that just avoided going all the way) hurt me more than my wife's affair had hurt me.


Hey there, 
IMO.. an affair is an affair, no matter how you slice it. It hurts, BAD. And the destruction of it is unimaginable. My husband and I have good and bad days. There are times that we are in bliss and I am in love all over again. Then there are times that I want out and so does he. But we are working through it nonetheless.. 

I wish you the best in your healing..


----------



## rrrbbbttt

In some not all cases Losing a father can be really tough on a BS who view their fathers as the shelf they can lean on, ie someone that they can always rely on. The father is someone who they can talk to get an opinion from and someone who they can trust i.e. they have your back. 
After a spouse cheats the BS is looking for that shelf that they can rely on the loss of that shelf, losing the only person you can now trust because of the Betrayal can make the BS really guarded.

You need to understand this if Malcom's Dad was a "shelf" in Malcom's life.


----------



## walkonmars

Mal doin ok?


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## Acabado

Lost, how are you doing it?


----------



## Wideopn Dave

Lost at sea said:


> This will sound empty....i know this....but the only man i ever have loved is malcolm. I left because i was hurt he wouldnt fight for me. I have been a selfish b-***. I see that. I was so caught up in feeling dumped by malcolm when he told me to leave when he caught me in my affair. I see now that he needed to do thst to getmy attention.i was a selfish idiot for not getting that before.
> 
> Yes i will wait for him. He isnt seeing anyone but a good looking guy who is a good dad and his own boss is a catch and i know i will have competition at some point. I will wait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry if this is harsh on your ex Malcom.

L a S.....this post above; can you spell *M A N I P U L A T I O N* ?


----------



## Wideopn Dave

I'm so angered now by what I've read in both posts (I haven't the stomach to read either to the end) because I am living Malcolm's pain right now in a Hotel at Schipol Airport.

My wife had 5 x EA's and one PA and who's the idiot?? Yup me for each time on the EA's forgiving and taking her back with the promises that she wouldn't do it again. 

My wife (yes we are STILL married and in counseling at least until i get home from this trip) sounds / sounded exactly like you did in the post of yours I quoted L a S! The difference is Malcolm saw through your BULLSH*T whereas I didn't with my wife. Its as though she has a spell on me; I'd get angry and yell and she'd know just when to switch on the water-works and make me feel like a mean SoB for saying what I truly felt.

I have NEVER been violent in any way to her EVER yet when the last EA was discovered in identical circumstances to Malcolm even down to the her in the shower bit, I left the house and she called her mother who came over. I had gone to blow of steam (my way of doing it, quiet country road and drive the wheels of my car!) and when I walk through the front door her mother says, "please don't hit her"......I was STUNNED.

Forward to the PA, I travel a lot on business. I own my own successful practice in the risk management field and last year was in Malaysia when EA number 6 turned PA. Here are the most hurtful facts;

1) She brought the f**ker into OUR marital home; at least not the marital bed!
2) They we about to get busy when my daughter came home unexpectedly and found the front door locked so climbed in through her bedroom window to be confronted by this naked f**ker coming out of the wife's office. She grabs her hockey stick and chases the SoB into the office to find her mother hastily trying to re-dress; naked from the waste down she was.
3) Due to the time zone differences and the subsequent timeline analysis, she and I were bbm'ing WHEN THIS F**KER AND HER WERE IN THE HOUSE TOGETHER!! and she told me she was missing me and couldn't wait for me to get home.

(sorry this is rambling but its cathartic because I have just realised what i have to do when I get home on Friday)

HOW F**KING SICK MUST SHE BE TO DO THAT TO ME???????

HOW STUPID AM I TO HAVE EVEN ENTERTAINED THE NOTION OF RECONCILIATION????? Jeez!!

Hence I say again, M A N I P U L A T I O N!!!!!!!

No the best part......the reason for her behaviour as uncovered by the (second) MC we have seen for the past 3 months...... she emotionally disconnected from me when our daughter was born because I wasn't fully supportive and due to her episiotomy during my daughter's delivery, she wasn't ready for intercourse the first time we did have relations; I was left feeling gutted that I may have effectively raped my wife in the way this came out when the councilor broke the news to me after 3 x one on one sessions with my wife. 

It left me broken and fighting desperately to show contrition for what I DID WRONG 17 years ago!!!! That's what I have been doing for the past 2.5 months!! The fact that SHE HAD AN AFFAIR has faded conveniently into the background.

I cant believe how ABSOLUTELY STUPID AND DUPED I HAVE BEEN!!!

L a S, I'm sorry if this is hard to hear again, but you do not have ANY CONCEPT of how you destroyed Malcolm if his pain is anything like mine.....NO CONCEPT.


----------



## Acabado

I'm so sorry Wideopn Dave. That was really hard.

Please, start your own thread here at CWI rathen than general. We get it here.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Wideopn Dave, 

I'm so SORRY! for what you are going through, may I recommend you start your own thread and TRUST ME, EVERYONE that provided Malcolm with sage advise will provide you with the same. I know I'm going to.......


----------



## Wideopn Dave

Sorry guys but man this and Malcolm's thread just hit like a lightning bolt. I did previously start a thread on the "emotional disconnect" side of it and the replies I got were not what I wanted to hear because I was still harbouring the silly notion that my pain would go away and my wife and I would reconcile and live happily ever after. It was the day after I fed the Unicorn at the local zoo!

Sorry again for hijacking this thread.


----------



## KanDo

Wideopn Dave said:


> No the best part......the reason for her behaviour as uncovered by the (second) MC we have seen for the past 3 months...... she emotionally disconnected from me when our daughter was born because I wasn't fully supportive and due to her episiotomy during my daughter's delivery, she wasn't ready for intercourse the first time we did have relations; I was left feeling gutted that I may have effectively raped my wife in the way this came out when the councilor broke the news to me after 3 x one on one sessions with my wife.
> 
> It left me broken and fighting desperately to show contrition for what I DID WRONG 17 years ago!!!! That's what I have been doing for the past 2.5 months!! The fact that SHE HAD AN AFFAIR has faded conveniently into the background.
> 
> I cant believe how ABSOLUTELY STUPID AND DUPED I HAVE BEEN!!!
> 
> L a S, I'm sorry if this is hard to hear again, but you do not have ANY CONCEPT of how you destroyed Malcolm if his pain is anything like mine.....NO CONCEPT.


Bit of a thread jack, but please FIRE THIS MC! The difference between this analysis and a bucket of sh1t is the bucket.


----------



## Malcolm38

Don't worry about the threadjack Dave. I haven't been active as of late, nor has my beloved soon to be ex wifester.

It's never really the best feeling in the world to be betrayed. I've lived it. 

I'm tired. There was a thread on here tonight on CWI where some WW's were giving their takes on how their husbands led them to have to cheat, or however they were spinning it. Although I was gagging while reading it, I just came to realize that the only person you can truly control is yourself and not to get so worked up about these things I can't control. Or at least try not to. Easier said than done obviously. 

Hopefully I'll still have primary custody once the divorce is finalized, and I just want to be single regardless. Once the kids are of age to start living their own lives, I want to travel, conduct my life how I want and not have to deal with this nonsense again. That's what this whole thing has taught me.


----------



## walkonmars

Malcolm38 said:


> ... I just came to realize that the only person you can truly control is yourself and not to get so worked up about these things I can't control. Or at least try not to. ....


Very wise Mal. Very wise. You're a good man.


----------



## oldmittens

Malcolm38 said:


> Don't worry about the threadjack Dave. I haven't been active as of late, nor has my beloved soon to be ex wifester.
> 
> It's never really the best feeling in the world to be betrayed. I've lived it.
> 
> I'm tired. There was a thread on here tonight on CWI where some WW's were giving their takes on how their husbands led them to have to cheat, or however they were spinning it. Although I was gagging while reading it, I just came to realize that the only person you can truly control is yourself and not to get so worked up about these things I can't control. Or at least try not to. Easier said than done obviously.
> 
> Hopefully I'll still have primary custody once the divorce is finalized, and I just want to be single regardless. Once the kids are of age to start living their own lives, I want to travel, conduct my life how I want and not have to deal with this nonsense again. That's what this whole thing has taught me.


What's the name of the thread


----------



## john_lord_b3

Decorum said:


> Lost at sea,
> Some posters may question this statement but I do not. I believe you, more than that I could have predicted that you felt this way, and I will tell you why.
> 
> I’m sure Malcolm has his faults but he is a good man, a faithful husband, good father, protector and provider. He has been a good friend and companion. If you did not say you loved him I would think you were a terrible human being and I would not bother posting. How could you not love him "on some level", as your husband and the father of your children and I have no doubt he feels the same.
> 
> It is this issue of love “on some level” that the confusion and lack of clarity enters,. There are different kinds of love.
> 
> Let me give you an example. My wife and I have 4 children, two of whom are daughters (18 &22 yrs old).
> 
> They have captured my heart since the day they were born, I would and have gladly worked long hours for them, and sacrifice whatever I have left to help and be there for them. They love me and know I have their backs, no matter what. If it were necessary I would gladly spill every last drop of blood I have to protect them and thank God with my dying breath that they are safe.
> 
> One day God willing I will walk them down the aisle in a marriage ceremony and do what is called “Giving away the Bride” , this is more than just a meaningless gesture, something that happened to give the doddering old father something to do because he is paying for the wedding.
> 
> It is part of the wedding ceremony because it is true. The daily role that I served as their father is truly transferred to the new son in law, her husband. This transition takes place without jealously, there is no competition.
> 
> This new man will fill this role as well as that of lover and sexual partner, as it should be.
> 
> Every man when he marries his life partner is marrying his lover. She is the object of his desire; he looks for the passion in her eyes, the eagerness and enthusiasm in her kiss and lovemaking, he looks to see the submission in her femininity as she gives herself to him. He wants to know that he “rocks” her world and that they share something between them that is special and all their own.
> 
> No man marries a woman because he wants to adopt her as a daughter, no he is looking for a lover and companion, as a man I show love and receive love by being my partner’s lover.
> 
> *Well then, here are two levels of love, the father love, and the lover love.*
> 
> When you say that Malcolm is the only man you have ever loved, I believe you, but it is the father love you feel, it a response to his masculine love for you. As you step back and think “what have you done to this good man” and are truly horrified, you can realize now why you feel the way you do.
> 
> (Btw LAS you are not the first wayward spouse to stop at this waypoint and ask for directions, many get lost right here.)
> 
> The problem is that you have not always loved Malcolm as a lover .If you did at those times you could not bear to let another take his place, it would feel like rape to give yourself to another if Malcolm were your lover. It would make you feel like throwing up.
> 
> I suspect (if you are honest) that at times, especially under the influence of an affair, that your sexual attraction for Malcolm was in negative numbers, it’s the way woman are wired. There were times you had sex with Malcolm and were not interested in him or even repulsed at the thought, but you did it to try to disguise an affair.
> 
> This is what Jim and some others were trying to bring out earlier. (I believe)
> 
> 
> 
> Basically Lost, Malcolm has always been your husband and a good one but he has not always been your one and only lover, that special place has been “Let out” over the course of your whole marriage.
> 
> Sometimes it has come back to Malcolm perhaps, other times its given to strange men, but you are always on the lookout for a new interest.
> 
> You have considered yourself available since the time you began dating Malcolm. You have never transitioned to a settled state in married life. Your periodic failure has been assured from the beginning because of this.
> 
> There is no deeper answer as to why after this, everyone has to decide what kind of person they want to be, and you acting out what you wanted.
> 
> Malcolm knows this, whether he could put in into words or not, he now knows that he has only occasionally been your lover but always your husband.
> 
> This is the principle definition of the much abhorred cake eater so often spoke of here, Protector, provider, but not lover.
> 
> When Malcolm was considering reconciling with you, his question was not, can I be a husband to her, will she accept my protection and provision; no it was will she truly, finally and fully be my lover and mine alone.
> 
> Even you do not know at this point if you could finally and fully be his lover should he reconcile, you still think you have always loved him, but don't yet see, that you have not loved him on every level.
> 
> You don’t see it yet, and probably cannot see it yet.
> It will take time and work to clear the fog.
> 
> You were not really that interested in Malcolm sexually. (Now is a different matter, different dynamic.)
> 
> And that is one of the most painful and devastating realizations for a betrayed spouse, that as good as he thought things were they were not good enough for you to keep safe the special bond of sexual intimacy that he thought the two of you shared.
> 
> To him it will likely seem undeniable!
> 
> He will spend much time searching for an answer in himself as to why, it will forever be an unanswered question. You can try to take the blame but as a man when he knows you choose another over him, you will have no answer that will alleviate his question.
> 
> So yes you have always loved Malcolm, but you have not always been his lover, and that means everything to a man.


:smthumbup:

Sir, this is an incredibly well-written post. If I have half of your writing skills, I will quit my job at IT Support and begin a new career in writing! 

:smthumbup:



Malcolm38 said:


> Don't worry about the threadjack Dave. I haven't been active as of late, nor has my beloved soon to be ex wifester.
> 
> It's never really the best feeling in the world to be betrayed. I've lived it.
> 
> I'm tired. There was a thread on here tonight on CWI where some WW's were giving their takes on how their husbands led them to have to cheat, or however they were spinning it. Although I was gagging while reading it, I just came to realize that the only person you can truly control is yourself and not to get so worked up about these things I can't control. Or at least try not to. Easier said than done obviously.
> 
> Hopefully I'll still have primary custody once the divorce is finalized, and I just want to be single regardless. Once the kids are of age to start living their own lives, *I want to travel, conduct my life how I want and not have to deal with this nonsense again. That's what this whole thing has taught me*.


Good luck Mr. Malcolm. You deserve happiness, and it's good to pursue a travelling experience which will enlighten your heavy heart. God bless you.:smthumbup:


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## dusty4

Lost at sea said:


> I will give malcolm a dna test for our kids if he needs me to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thats a good gesture, but he doesn't need you to give him a dna test or approve. He can get that done on his own.


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## Numbersixxx

oldmittens said:


> What's the name of the thread


Yeah, I would like to know that too.


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## JCD

Why not go to Malcom's profile and look at all the threads he started under statistics?


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## dusty4

Malcolm38 said:


> Hopefully I'll still have primary custody once the divorce is finalized, and I just want to be single regardless.


If you don't mind me asking, how is it you got to have primary custody up to this point?
Because fathers end up getting the shaft with regards to being the custodial parent unless he can prove the mother unfit, or the mother willingly gives up being the custodial parent.


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## Malcolm38

dusty4 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, how is it you got to have primary custody up to this point?
> Because fathers end up getting the shaft with regards to being the custodial parent unless he can prove the mother unfit, or the *mother willingly gives up being the custodial parent*.


I'm nothing special. I'd get f'd over too if she wasn't working with me and basically giving me primary. 

Make no mistake, I 10000% want primary custody. I just know that if she changes her mind ever during this process I might be in for a fight with long odds.


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## Malcolm38

oldmittens said:


> What's the name of the thread


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...women-who-has-cheated-past-point-view-18.html


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## tom67

Hey Malcolmb how are you holding up healthwise. not being nosey just hope you are doing well that's all.


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## dusty4

Malcolm38 said:


> I'm nothing special. I'd get f'd over too if she wasn't working with me and basically giving me primary.
> 
> Make no mistake, I 10000% want primary custody. I just know that if she changes her mind ever during this process I might be in for a fight with long odds.


Well the thing is, father's don't get priority consideration. If a mother wants custody, she will get it unless, as we said, she agrees willingly, or she has something that definitely makes her unfit. Unfortunately cheating doesn't count.

However, if you end up getting full custody or simply become the custodial parent with joint, then unless she has something on you, or you agree, a judge isn't going to reverse custody and bounce the kids all over the place.


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## too

Lost at sea said:


> I have to admit his ex also triedto leave him a facebook note ad well and i just deleted itbefore he could see it. Its hypocritical i admit but i really get jealous if a woman notices myhusband. Espevially her. He has good boundaries, but with everything i amworried he will be receptive to the tramp.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Interception of electronic communication is a crime under U.S. Law punishable by up to five years in jail, be careful what you go admitting to.


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## Squeakr

too said:


> Interception of electronic communication is a crime under U.S. Law punishable by up to five years in jail, be careful what you go admitting to.


This is not interception, unless she used something to capture the stream and then if it was something within your own controlled network it may still not violate this (becomes a grey area there). If she had his password and logged in (with his consent and knowledge that she was allowed to) then it is not a crime of security hacking either. I agree on watching how the lines are crossed as it can open a legal issue (but the truth is that very few states and judges will prosecute this sort of thing, just hope you are not the example).


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## Nujabes

you reap what you sow


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## Shaggy

too said:


> Interception of electronic communication is a crime under U.S. Law punishable by up to five years in jail, be careful what you go admitting to.



So it smoking pot, but that doesn't down anyone.

Look, we had this debate here at great length, already.

Please identify any spouse who has been successfully convicted of this.

Do not cite the Michigan case because it didn't finish, the DA was over zealous and it was eventually dropped.


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