# fresh affair discovery. need sleep help



## geena hallmark (Jan 4, 2018)

ADMIN/MODERATORS: please delete thread. i regret posting it and asking for help. The topic I posted in is titled "Coping with Infidelity". based on that and what I posted, I'd hoped to get some positive responses that might actually help me "cope". Almost all the responses tell me to just end it, many are cruel. Maybe they are all correct and think they are helping me but it's not the path I've chosen and not helping me at all. It is pushing me backwards. i wish I never poured my heart out and shared this with the community.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

You only have her word that there was no kissing petting or groping? Would she be willing to take a polygraph to prove her story?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Reconcile if you like, but know this:

She’s lying.

They ****ed.

Like... a lot.

If she’s unwilling to admit to this, there’s no point in even attempting reconciliation.

Also, has the affair (lie to yourself all you like, that’s exactly what this is) been exposed to the other guy’s wife?

Have you checked for a burner phone? Makes sense that she’d have one — after all, she’d likely written her old phone off as dead, which would’ve provided the perfect excuse to buy another.


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## NickyT (Aug 14, 2017)

I have been through this. For me, it made our marriage what I wished it had been 20 years earlier. Life would have played out differently if we were as considerate of one another 20 years earlier. So...no "divorce her" from me.

Unfortunately, there is no magic pill to solved the problem. The only time I slept for the first few weeks was when I was completely wrung out. For me, the images played out all day, and I spent hours trying to figure out when the deception began - my case was different from yours in that my husband became mentally abusive once he started his hunt. So, I was a replaying everything.

As the trust rebuilds, the images will fade. Then, out of the blue, they will crack you up the side of the head again. You will be able to handle them by then. Let your wife know you are struggling with your imagination. Figure out what you need to get through - reassurance from your wife? time alone?

Good luck.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Your story is played out on this form over and over again.

Spoiler alert.

Its dosen't end as you hope it does.

But time will eventuality show you the light.

Godspeed my hurting soul.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Lostinthought61 said:


> *You only have her word that there was no kissing petting or groping?* Would she be willing to take a polygraph to prove her story?


LOL... I know, right?

Because a cheater wouldn’t lie about that, right?

:lol: :rofl:


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

All i'm reading is you making excuses on why she did xyz. You were faced with the same problems she encountered but did not go around cheating.

By the Way she is lying they fuc...ked. there is no way they secretly met up several times and nothing physical happened. Cheaters will always minimise their affair. She even had his name as her phone pin. Phone Pins and codes are usually quite significant to a person. Time you faced up to realities.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Having been cheated on twice. One was my girlfriend and fiancé of 5 years and the other my live in girlfriend of a year, I know a little about it. First off they will claim that there was no intercourse. Just think clearly for awhile and you will realize that they need to do damage control and since you never caught them they can make up a version that minimizes what they did. I bet they did have intercourse. I was told twice that they did not do much but found out that they did a lot. First rule is not to believe them no matter how much you love them. They have proven that they cannot be trusted and that they are liars. You are believing a woman who lied to you and now is asking you to believe her once she is caught. 

The other thing is that they will deflect blame. Some will say you are to blame. You ignored them, did not show your love, etc.. I have seen guys in this forum go to marriage counselling on their own to find out how to be a better husband so that they do not drive their wives into the arms of another man. Cheating, even without intercourse is sharing emotions. The way you describe what your wife said sounds like two emotionless robots who exchanged hot and sex posts and pictures, having sterile sex that did not include intercourse. Two adults hot for each other had the self control not to have intercourse. At least there was oral involved since adults do not usually stop at just making out.

Your problem is that it takes a very long time to regain trust and you will never forget what she did. You will go through the rest of your marriage being suspicious of a wife who seems to solve her problems by cheating. How can you trust someone who proved they are untrustworthy? How to you believe an admitted liar? I could not do it. I remember when my ex fiancé told me that they just went out and made out a little. Then my other friends told me that the guy was going around town bragging about all the dirty things he did to her. When I confronted her with what I heard, she admitted that they did do everything I heard that they did.

If you research the odds of her cheating again you will find that the odds are only in your favor if she admits to 100% responsibility, not her weight or you, for the affair. Most husbands grasp as straws because they do not want to believe what happened. You are already calling it a fling because you do not want to accept that it was an emotional affair. When I was studying psychology of relationships and marriage, our professor said that if caught red handed, deny. Keep denying what you did because your spouse will want to believe you and over time his memory will play tricks on him and he will doubt what he or she saw. In other words, you want to believe it was not what it really was to avoid the alternative of divorce.

I gave up on monogamy after two cheating girlfriends in a row. I was stupid enough to believe that a person in love will not lie or cheat on you. That made it easy to cheat on me. I never asked questions. I never got snoopy and assumed that all was well. I was wrong, dead wrong each time. My marriage was not monogamous as a result and we are married over 45 years. Between the both of us we had less than 10 outside sex partners and most were played with as a couple. My wife agrees that had we insisted on monogamy, we would have divorced a long time ago. The monogamous marriage structure that we enter into fails 50% of the time and yet we keep on following that structure. Would you fly on an airline that crashes half of the time? Even though we had very occasional sex with others, we did not do it behind each other's backs. There was no lying involved and no broken trust. You may wish to consider non monogamy as it is become more and more popular with the younger generation. It was pretty popular with my generation too as most of our friends were non monogamous. It is just that we did not have the internet to talk about it.

Assume the worse and then decide if you can live with knots in your stomach every time she does something suspicious. I have had sex with a few married women in the very distant past. Heard them talk to their husbands on the phone from a motel or my house. They lie with ease. One husband caught us and the next day the wife called me up to meet her in a motel for sex. I asked about her husband and she said that she took care of it and he believed her story. I discovered that there are husbands out there that rather look the other way than face the alternative. My wife and I shared a girlfriend for 30 years and she was married for 25 of those years. We even socialized with her husband. He lost his first wife to another man and he figured that by allowing his second wife sexual freedom he could avoid the stress and tension of worrying about his wife cheating because he gave his permission. He felt that he was in charge since he was the one who granted the permission. The things we tell ourselves to avoid the truth.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

She has his name as the password to her phone and yet there's no emotion in it???

They physically met and had happy endings, but never had PIV sex?

Met close to your home and had to be extra sneaky and deceitful to do so???

Cheaters have this weird defect. It's called lieing through their teeth. 

I assure you there will be no wrist hacking here. I do give you props though. That was the best belly laugh I have had in a lonnnggg time.

They ****ed!
They ****ed like rabid monkeys in a burning tree! 
They ****ed on the marital bed hard enough to almost break it!

When you decide to leave fantasy land, that is when you will get solid advise here. Until then, have fun.

I have an unpublished book on infidelity, myself.
You can guess for yourself how it ends.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Hope springs eternal.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

It's very possible to kill your love for someone, takes about a year give or take. Once your love is dead, dating and new relationships will be tons of fun. There are thousands of women you could fall in love with and love just as much. The relationships in time will take on just as much meaning. A majority who won't cheat on you. As soon as you fall in love again none of the pain you feel right now will exist. My opinion after reading these threads over and over is in the long run you will have a MUCH better life without her. 

Just saying.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You are doing all you can to minimise this, even calling it a fling and not an affair(which it was) and coming up with all sorts of excuses for her as to why she acted so badly. She is also minimising it, pretending it wasn't as bad as it was. Of course she is, she doesnt want you to know the full extent of what was going on, physically and emotionally. Women rarely cheat without some sort of emotional connection. 

This sort of terrible betrayal is devastating, and will take you years to recover from so be prepared. I think you need to book yourselves into some long term marriage counselling. You also need to accept that the trust will also take years to rebuild.Once a spouse had lied, deceived and cheated, its very hard to trust what they say and do in the future.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Like the others here are saying and it hurts for me to say (because you probably feel like you are in a recovery and the only issue is just blocking out the bad stuff in your mind) but the worst is likely yet to come. With woman there's not really such a thing in most cases as a purely physical relationship, heck with most men either but with women, they are built differently, especially with the emotional connection.

It's likely they went a LOT farther then what she has admitted to and while the last two weeks have been great for you and her, seemingly, get ready for the crash. There's more than likely a ton of feelings in there for him still. It's going to take a lot of effort to rebuild the trust and the 'new' marriage if you continue. Please don't minimize what happened and what you still need to go through to make it. It took me about 5-6 months to realize how much denial I was in and a lot of counseling and books. 

Probably the most difficult thing for me to understand was how someone so rational and so smart could be undertaken by all of this but when it comes to emotions and feelings and women around this age especially, everything gets thrown out the window. I was also confused about how good they could lie and now I know what false reconciliations look like. I was so concerned with forgetting the bad stuff and I thought I had the power through forgiveness and moving on quickly but the power in the early stages is keeping the issue close at hand and figuring out what went wrong and demanding from the both of you, pure transparency, no locked phones and absolutely, positively NO CONTACT with the other man no matter if it means a job change, etc. It's impossible to go from a romantic relationship to an acquaintance.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

If they were actually meeting face to face then they were not just jerking off. Get real.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

If you have decided you want to fix this, go and see a counsellor who specialises in couples work. Preferably using Gottman's affair recovery process. 



> In 2 weeks I'm still not sleeping.


Two weeks is nothing. You have a long road ahead of you. You will need to unpack and fix these things:



> She was in a mid-life crisis not coping with age 40 well. We'd been together 25 years with grown children and we had disagreements about our kids and she was struggling with the notion of them not needing mom anymore. We were stale but nothing extreme or bad.


This is good advice:


Stillfightingforus said:


> I know what false reconciliations look like. I was so concerned with forgetting the bad stuff and I thought I had the power through forgiveness and moving on quickly but the power in the early stages is keeping the issue close at hand and figuring out what went wrong and demanding from the both of you, pure transparency, no locked phones and absolutely, positively NO CONTACT with the other man no matter if it means a job change, etc. It's impossible to go from a romantic relationship to an acquaintance.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Where did anyone get the idea they didn’t have full on sex? He said it was purely physical. He knows they went at it like rabbits. He says they weren’t in love.

The most important thing he said is that it doesn’t add up, doesn’t make sense. We all know that means she isn’t telling the truth. When the truth comes out he will know it and it will all make sense. 
She bangs without emotion a friend. How many other friends have their been?


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## MidnightBlue (Nov 20, 2017)

Are you going to have to watch her like a hawk to make sure her legs don’t spring open every time she needs validation and/or is in the presence of bad boys? 

My husband had an EA. The only reason I say he had an EA is because I have only his word that it wasn’t a PA. What I do know for sure is my imagination is stronger than his word. It’s years later and though we are past it, the memories and emotions attached to them have the power to cause pain and destroy my sleep on occasion. 

There is nothing we can tell you that will keep those dark thoughts from swirling around somewhere in the recesses of your mind. You’re going to lose sleep. There are days you may live on autopilot. You’re going to hate her, love her, blame yourself, resolve to make it work, plan your life as a single person, plan to have an affair of your own, rage, cry, and cling - sometimes all in the same day. 

If reconciliation is your only option, you’re just going to have to accept that it’s going to be brutally hard. Things may be good now because both of you are working on things and being on your best behavior. The shine is going to wear off of that and when it does, be prepared that darker things will creep back in your mind. She’s likely going above and beyond to make up for her actions but that isn’t going to last once the emotions settle down and life becomes mundane again. Is she strong enough to handle that or is going to justify another fling? 

I hope everything works out the way you want.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

You can sleep because your insides are screaming that you are missing something.

You need to find out what that is


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Allow me to pile on. My man, she had full on sex with him multiple times. As much as they could arrange. Adults having affairs don't smooch in the backseat like 14 year old's. They have sex. I'd bet a month's pay on it. Seen it hundreds of times in my line of work (divorce/family law). You don't know everything. She's still keeping things from you...aka lying. You can't reconcile with someone who is still lying. That means she's prioritizing him and their affair over you and your marriage with her. Over your family. Think about that.


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## anotherbrokenguy (Dec 15, 2017)

OP,
I'm sorry to have to agree with the others here, but you are being delusional right now. You're in shock and in so much pain, you want to believe her version of the affair. It gives you hope and allows you to believe that it wasn't so bad and that now your relationship is better than ever. She's lying to you. Not only was her affair sexual including intercourse, it was emotional. Why else would her password be his name? I'll go one step further and say it isn't over - it's just underground now. I'm positive all of the posts that you've read here and everything people are saying to you is too much for you to believe. How can she be lying to you? "Not my wife" "she wouldn't do that" "she wouldn't lie to me now" Yes, your wife. She already did it. She is lying to you. She's lying so she won't be exposed. She doesn't believe you need the details. She wants to minimize her actions and behaviors and keep the truth a secret at all costs. Her best bet is to give you just enough to make you stop asking questions and not dig any further so she's not totally exposed. I know it's hard to believe - - but it's true. It's a pattern that's easy to see, it's been repeated over and over, and most of the experienced people here could write a play by play of what's happened and what will happen. You can't make your relationship better if you don't know the truth. You can't make appropriate decisions for you if you don't know the truth. She will play you and find other ways to continue her behavior if you don't know the truth. If you share with her what people on this forum are saying, she'll tell you how horrible and bitter all those people are and they don't know anything about how different she is than other women and how we can't know anything about your relationship. 
I know this is all harsh. I'm sure you don't want to hear any of it or believe any of it. I know you're in pain - I know that first hand. I'm only 5 or so weeks out from D-Day myself. You can't sleep, in my opinion, because deep in your subconscious you know she's lying to you. You know it doesn't add up. Seek the truth, then decide if you want to work on reconciliation. At least you could do it from a place of complete knowledge then. About your sleeping issue. Unfortunately, you have many many more sleepless nights ahead. Good luck to you and I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. Unfortunately you're not alone, but use the experience and knowledge of those here to help you.


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## MidnightBlue (Nov 20, 2017)

Chaparral said:


> Where did anyone get the idea they didn’t have full on sex? He said it was purely physical. He knows they went at it like rabbits. He says they weren’t in love.
> 
> The most important thing he said is that it doesn’t add up, doesn’t make sense. We all know that means she isn’t telling the truth. When the truth comes out he will know it and it will all make sense.
> She bangs without emotion a friend. How many other friends have their been?


Reread it. She claimed it was purely physical but without intercourse because intercourse would have been too intimate.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

MidnightBlue said:


> *purely physical* but without intercourse


Yea, this part alone should make it clear that she's lying.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm assuming for a moment it did not include intercourse means it included all but PIV intercourse. At any rate, when a woman strokes a man's pecker and balls and takes them in her mouth, that's about as intimate as it gets. Our man GH needs to spend less time pondering the emotional feelings his disloyal wife has for the OM and focus more on what she doesn't have for him.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

geena hallmark said:


> Hi All, hoping you can offer some magical methods to assist me in coping, and getting some sleep to stop this movie re-playing in my mind and torturing me. Sorry this is long. i want you to have the details to know what happened and where we're at in our recovery.
> 
> I am a 50 y/o male. On Dec 21 my 42 y/o wife's LG4 phone boot looped (look up LG4 boot loop if interested..and I can send you link to fix if you'd like!! :smile2. She had many precious family pics and was crushed to lose them. I did a bunch of internet research and found several alleged fixes and miraculously fixed phone. I've never been insecure and trusted her emphatically, never snooped her phone. She had given me password (ironically the guys name) because once i unlocked phone I might only have brief window to download and save her pics and contacts before phone permanently crashed (which it has now done). We didn't think I'd be able to do it. Guess I'm am a magician :grin2:
> 
> ...


Yeah I read that book from Jackson not even 6 months ago. Good thing.
Now, base on the fact that not everyone is the same. In my case the hardest part was the two first months. Those video movie/images playing in my head were choking me every hour of the day when I learned about my wife's cheatings. But being as I am, I got up and start a full war against those thoughts.
How?
Getting busy, no break time. I increased my work hours a day, I got very busy with the kids and church. Hustle, hustle, hustle.
Now, my system didn't eliminate those little movies and images from my head but they were not the only thoughts in my mind. I came to realize i was getting soooo busy doing anything to do with phisical activities that I was thinking more on those activities than my wife's affair. 
Now almost 10 months after, I am a lot better and all of those images and movies are way minimized compared to how I had then the first two months. Because I refused to be dragged down by her doing. Of course we're working on our marriage but I needed to focus on me first to recover from that blow.
It became normal when you loose your sleep and spent hours looking at the roof while those images of them having sex attack your mind.
I tell you, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.
I'm a living proof of that. I pushed myself out of the confort zone, I pushed my will into it and now when those movies come back I don't feel that hurt anymore. Wish you the best.

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## Melrose8888 (Jan 1, 2017)

Sorry you are here OP.

My advice in any affair situation is to start the ball rolling on divorce because I believe, whatever the eventual outcome, that is the best course of action to take. You see, the process allows you to feel you are being proactive, whilst also showing you how your POSW reacts to the thought of losing it all. You can stop the proceedings at any time during the process, if you feel she is fully remorseful and to be trusted again.

Honestly though, there is better out there for you - you don't want to be looking over your shoulder for the next XX years.

Keep posting - advice on here can seem harsh but it doesn't mean it isn't the best for you to hear right now.


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## Primrose (Mar 4, 2015)

1. It was an affair. Quit sugarcoating reality.

2. They had sex. I guarantee it.

3. If there was no emotion, she would not have chosen his name as her password. 

4. The other man's wife has every right to know.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Kudos to the posters that picked up his name being the password thing. I hadn't thought about it but I completely agree. She wouldn't do that if she wasn't thinking about him all day...aka...it's not just physical.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I have seen rug sweeping in my time but this one takes the cake. What happens next time your WW feels she is just not getting enough attention?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're still not sleeping because you don't believe her. Not really. Before you move further, set up a polygraph for her. If she refuses to go, you have your answer.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MidnightBlue said:


> Reread it. She claimed it was purely physical but without intercourse because intercourse would have been too intimate.


Your' words, his words, almost a ditty, almost, no is a contradiction, a flap-doodle..
A flap-doodle held firm by lips above, or better, wetter, more fitting lips below.

His doodle to completion to happy ending. 
That deed needing friction, chafing, massaging.

She, wayward wife, yes, her pleasure needing the same physical mechanism, mechanics.
Friction, motion, rhythm.
These things take many minutes, many thrusts, many torso jigglings.

For her to come back, to come back again, she needs to come, to arrive.
If she not, did not, then she would certainly shorn the horn, forego future failure, not needing a repeat performance.
Him, not delivering her coming, grounds for ending pleasure, not given to her.

She got off, he got off.
Had this not have been the case, she would not have returned to the scene of the grime.

She went back time after time. Just once is purely physical.
Time after time is passion, need, mind-sex. Intercourse of the genitals.
Loving mental friction, her mind rubbing against his.

Yes, it was physical, PIV, further it was emotional.
Any words to the contrary are rubbish.

The Martian-


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

I almost hate to read these posts anymore. When I first came here in 2011, I was all about sharing my experience to try and help. Now I wonder...."is he going to wake up? is he going to do anything about it, (except blame himself)?"

Dude............ They had sex, and she REALLY liked it. She didnt have plans to end it, She REALLY liked it.

I would start the divorce ball rolling, you can always reconcile, but get the ball rolling, talk to an Attorney.

We are all to blame for our part in the failures of our marriage, that is a shared responsibility. But in NO WAY are you, or anything you did, responsible for her affair. That is all on her. Read the responses on here, and more importantly LISTEN to the advise given. 

I loved my xwife, she was the love of my life, I wanted to be married to her. But when she no longer wanted me, and proved that with her actions. I started a new life. Now 6 years later only issue I have is all the WOMEN! lol. So sorry you are here.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MidnightBlue said:


> Reread it. She claimed it was purely physical but without intercourse because intercourse would have been too intimate.


My bad, actually had to read three times to catch that. Her story is so obviously a lie. That naturally had sex. It’s beyond belief that they were willing to do everything but PIV sex. That’s why your brain is screaming. 
Another reason things aren’t adding up it makes no sense that she cares that much for you but she was willing to throw away her marriage if she got caught. On top of it she was willing to risk everything but wasn’t even in love with him? She just did it for BJs etc.? She risked everything and wasn’t even in love or getting laid.
The truth is she believes if you know what was really going on you would dump her in a heart beat.
Number one make her take a poly. There is much more.
Number two, you will never get over this treachery.


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## geena hallmark (Jan 4, 2018)

Password is a tough one for sure and I've been toying with that and it is also why I identified it to all of you. No doubt there was some infatuation going on and it was headed down a scarey road. I wondered if it tied into the forbidden thing, part of the thrill and secrecy, so sub-consciously his name becomes password for the entire thing. Or maybe a deeper reason. I'll never know 100%. I also accept there had to be some form of intimacy, not a complete physical-only thing. I have absolutely no doubt they were headed to intercourse and she doesn't deny that if it carried on, that would have happened. 

As previous poster pointed out, she was giving him oral, no denial at all from my wife. And he was getting her off with rubbing and the whole thrill. The only person who thinks oral isn't full on sex is Bill Clinton. In fact, most men have to beg for it, so it could be considered even more intimate. Might as well be sex, it is sex. So whether there was actual intercourse or not is irrelevant to me, it has the same meaning to me. 

They set up all the encounters via text message and I only saw 3-4 in total. The lead up on those days involved foreplay, never any lovey-dovey stuff. It would have been more often but conflicting schedules didn't permit. No denial on that. They'd meet and be in a vehicle and they had a narrow window. YES, screwing like rabbits is possible, maybe even happened, who knows, but there was only a super narrow window to accomplish what you all are so vividly describing (and making it a lot worse for me...not helping at all). She hasn't hesitated or backed away from any detail I've asked about, and I've asked about ALL of it. She knows that I'm equally hurt by either image or action (intercourse vs. BJ), so why deny intercourse to me? Like I say, it is irrelevant to me because it has the same net affect. How much more do i need to know. If she would have told me she was feeling deeply for him, it wouldn't change where I'm at now. I've got a pretty full picture of everything.

thanks to all for taking the time to read and even those that said what I don't want to hear. WOW, some tough love here. I was expecting a few more replies to provide ideas on how to repair and provide some support, since that is the road I've chosen to take. I guess my part about "don't tell me to ditch the *****" didn't matter. I am going to try and reconcile and work this out. Please stop telling me I'm a naive idiot for choosing this path. It's my decision to make and what I've chosen. She told her family and is now being watched like a hawk. Anything is possible and i know there are no guarantees. Life is full of risks. I know most posters here see only a horrible outcome. I must believe in Santa Claus because I see us working this out. In fact, some of our friends have shared that they or friends had affairs happen. Many led to divorce, probably most. Some ended up with a stronger relationship than ever, so it is possible. I truly believe we are going to get through this...we will be in the low percentage category.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

geena hallmark said:


> Unfortunately, I discovered text messages including texted pics that conclusively proved she was having a fling with someone I don't know.
> 
> 
> She still can't fully explain the "how it happened". See below
> ...


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

geena hallmark said:


> Password is a tough one for sure and I've been toying with that and it is also why I identified it to all of you. No doubt there was some infatuation going on and it was headed down a scarey road. I wondered if it tied into the forbidden thing, part of the thrill and secrecy, so sub-consciously his name becomes password for the entire thing. Or maybe a deeper reason. I'll never know 100%. I* also accept there had to be some form of intimacy, *not a complete physical-only thing. I have absolutely no doubt they were headed to intercourse and she doesn't deny that if it carried on, that would have happened.
> 
> *As previous poster pointed out, she was giving him oral, no denial at all from my wife.
> *


You believe her giving him oral is NOT highly intimate?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

geena hallmark said:


> Password is a tough one for sure and I've been toying with that and it is also why I identified it to all of you. No doubt there was some infatuation going on and it was headed down a scarey road. I wondered if it tied into the forbidden thing, part of the thrill and secrecy, so sub-consciously his name becomes password for the entire thing. Or maybe a deeper reason. I'll never know 100%. I also accept there had to be some form of intimacy, not a complete physical-only thing. I have absolutely no doubt they were headed to intercourse and she doesn't deny that if it carried on, that would have happened.
> 
> As previous poster pointed out, she was giving him oral, no denial at all from my wife. And he was getting her off with rubbing and the whole thrill. The only person who thinks oral isn't full on sex is Bill Clinton. In fact, most men have to beg for it, so it could be considered even more intimate. Might as well be sex, it is sex. So whether there was actual intercourse or not is irrelevant to me, it has the same meaning to me.
> 
> ...


I love the smell of a BH lying to himself in the morning.

One day — and hopefully soon — you’ll realize that there’s a certain “math” where infidelity is concerned... and that’s when you’ll start adding things up.

And once you’ve done that, the sum of everything that you know, everything that you suspect, and all of the lies — both hers and the ones you keep telling yourself — will be staring you in the face.

Hopefully you won’t ignore it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> I love the smell of a BH lying to himself in the morning.
> 
> One day — and hopefully soon — you’ll realize that there’s a certain “math” where infidelity is concerned... and that’s when you’ll start adding things up.
> 
> ...


Quoted for truth. 

Best of luck.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

gh,

First, let me state that I largely agree with the majority here, and you'll likely come to the same conclusion as you distance yourself from D-Day and allow your mind to absorb the true nature of what you have described. In the meantime, while you're wrapping your head around what just happened to your life, let's talk about some basics:



> It was not someone she works with directly, but a service provider to their company.


The above to me seems that there was somewhat regular work related contact between your WW and OM. What have you done to insure that NC is firmly in place and that your WW NEVER has contact with OM again?



> He is married with 2 young kids.


Also, when do you plan on contacting his BW to expose him for what he is? Isn't it time to "share the pain" so to speak and screw up his life, like he screwed up yours?

Both of the above things will help you to insure that the A is dead and stake drove through its heart, which is essential for any attempt at R. Plus, it will set the tone with your WW that you're not going to put up with any more **** from her.

Also, I would recommend you do an initial consult with the best family law attorney in your area ... even if your intent is to R, it helps to make a fully informed decision and again, it sets the proper tone with your WW that there are indeed certain boundaries that she will have to respect. One of the biggest mistakes we see regularly is BH's that forgive and recommit too quickly, which sends the message to WW that what she did was no big deal and she just needs to be more careful in the future.

Your WW is no special snowflake, she is a lying, cheating woman and while you may be able to get past this, she drove the bus right up to the edge of the cliff and she needs to understand the consequences of those actions.

... and lastly:



> Some ended up with a stronger relationship than ever, so it is possible.


Disavow yourself of this MYTH. It doesn't happen ... you're more likely to catch a unicorn. 

Think about it ... how in the world can you take a good M, add in infidelity and come up with something better than before. One of the hardest things I've had to accept is that no matter how good my M is now or in the future, it will always be LESS THAN it could have been if my WW hadn't lost her mind at 42 years old after losing some weight and gobbling up some ego kibbles from an OM that saw an opening ... SOUND FAMILIAR?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

geena hallmark said:


> She knows that I'm equally hurt by either image or action (intercourse vs. BJ), so why deny intercourse to me?


Because it is a cheater's default reaction to minimize, when they know you don't have 100% proof. Obviously she believes that a BJ is easier for you to swallow (sorry) than intercourse; despite what you told her. If you're not assuming she had PIV sex, then you are indeed being naive. 

Posters have told you ad nauseum that without full honesty from your WW, your chances for genuine R are slim and none. Apparently you're not concerned about that. You should be.

That said, in the unlikely event she is telling the truth, she should have no worries agreeing to a polygraph. You should at least ask her if she's willing. If she refuses; well, there you have it.


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## geena hallmark (Jan 4, 2018)

No further posts needed, i am no longer going to read them. I know you are all convinced you are right and that I'm an idiot, denial, etc.. that is my choice. I will deal with the consequences. I so wish I never poured my heart out or shared. Any posts from here on will not be read by me and you will be posting to one another. Have fun at my expense.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Geena hallmark

During the first two weeks after d-day sleep was about fourteen hours a week. That comes to about two hours a day and lasted for several months for me. You don’t feel safe, except when you know exactly where your wife is and she isn’t at work. Every second she is away from your side creates anxiety for you. Even at your side your wife will create anxiety for you. That’s the gift your wife gave you, and you have even more questions that you don’t even know to ask yet. 

Have you exposed this affair to OM’s wife? Have you exposed this affair to OM’s company? I bet they would love to know that he is hunting for women while working. Some of their encounters may have actually happened during work. Your first order of business is to expose the OM, cause him chaos in his life so that he doesn’t have time to talk to your wife. This also helps with beginning to issue consequences to both OM and your wife. You have stated your goal is to reconcile with your wife, your wife will need consequences in order to reconcile. 

Since you have chosen to reconcile I see you that you are thinking everything will just go back to normal, such as sleep. Not so. Even the best thought and laid out plan will not help you to sleep, the brain isn’t wired that way. While you lay awake in bed or watching tv in another part of the house, do you question your wife on why she can sleep? The answer is because she hasn’t reached true remorse. This is also contributing to why you can’t sleep. Because she can. 

The road you are choosing to embark upon is long and arduous, you will need individual therapy. Your therapist will tell you that what you are going through is very similar to PTSD. You need the full truth, which you don’t have, in order to reconcile. Your wife needs individual therapy to figure out why and then become strong enough to tell you and herself. This is how you then establish boundaries. If my wife couldn’t tell me how this happened how will she ever recognize it in the future. She killed your marriage and yet tells you I have no idea why. Bull. Hold her accountable. Hold yourself accountable to your half of the marriage, your wife her half and the entire affair. Ask your wife if she ever planned to stop the affair, this answer will shake your very core again. That’s because you know your wife wanted the affair to progress and she admitted she would have had full on sex. That’s also her testing the waters to see your reaction to how you would react had it been full on sex she was admitting to. She didn’t admit to that so she saw something in you that it wasn’t safe to admit sex just yet. But she will when pressed hard enough.

All of what I wrote is what is keeping you up at night, but not her. She just falls into bed and sleeps as many hours she needs to. Do yourself a favor, tally up how many times the affair is on your mind along with how long. Do this for a period of twenty four hours then give it to your wife, she will be shocked at how much it enters your mind. Next start to identify your triggers, what cause you to become anxious. Then understand that recovery for you is two to five years. Understand the self reflecting you will need to do to become healthy again. Gradually, you will begin to get sleep, like three hours a day. Don’t laugh, that will be a godsend.

In my opinion you should wait six months before you decide reconciliation or divorce. What if she tells you something new in three months? You will be right back at square one. Consult a lawyer, tell your wife divorce and reconciliation are on the table directly in front of her. Tell your wife you may decide to notify her employer and family of her cheating. Watch her reactions. If you notify the other mans betrayed wife watch your wife carefully. Do not tell your wife you are exposing to the other spouse, just do it and wait for your wife to come to you. If she’s mad, she’s placing OM before you, if she is in agreement to expose that would be good. Also, if you expose to the other spouse and your wife tells you she knows, ask her why she is still communicating with OM. If your wife communicates to OM at work she needs to quit. Find another job, but she is to never communicate with OM again. There’s much more to tell you, but I’m short on time, pm me if you think I can help you in any way.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

You do not have the foundation you need to rebuild this. You have your determination. When you have her determination to rebuild your trust you will have the second side of your foundation. I know what I would ask for to start that process. I have no idea what you need. 

The other thing you really need to do is go get an STD test on yourself. It's just a simple safety precaution. By report, it will probably be as painful to you as opening the phone was. 

Trust is built by promises made and promises kept. Start asking for those promises. Whatever you need.

Edit note. @geena hallmark just on the off chance that you see this do get the testing. There are STD's that can be passed by oral.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

geena hallmark said:


> No further posts needed, i am no longer going to read them. I know you are all convinced you are right and that I'm an idiot, denial, etc.. that is my choice. I will deal with the consequences. I so wish I never poured my heart out or shared. Any posts from here on will not be read by me and you will be posting to one another. Have fun at my expense.


You're not the first BS, nor will you be the last, who's only motivation to come to this forum is to validate what you intended to do anyway; and get offended when it doesn't happen. 

I wish you luck.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

geena hallmark said:


> No further posts needed, i am no longer going to read them. I know you are all convinced you are right and that I'm an idiot, denial, etc.. that is my choice. I will deal with the consequences. I so wish I never poured my heart out or shared. Any posts from here on will not be read by me and you will be posting to one another. Have fun at my expense.


If he doesn't come back soon, He will be back a few years like did.
It breaks my heart to hear my former self in his words........


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

@geena hallmark

Please pm me, I don’t want to advise more if you aren’t going to read.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You can lead a horse to water...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

geena hallmark said:


> Password is a tough one for sure and I've been toying with that and it is also why I identified it to all of you. No doubt there was some infatuation going on and it was headed down a scarey road. I wondered if it tied into the forbidden thing, part of the thrill and secrecy, so sub-consciously his name becomes password for the entire thing. Or maybe a deeper reason. I'll never know 100%. I also accept there had to be some form of intimacy, not a complete physical-only thing. I have absolutely no doubt they were headed to intercourse and she doesn't deny that if it carried on, that would have happened.
> 
> As previous poster pointed out, she was giving him oral, no denial at all from my wife. And he was getting her off with rubbing and the whole thrill. The only person who thinks oral isn't full on sex is Bill Clinton. In fact, most men have to beg for it, so it could be considered even more intimate. Might as well be sex, it is sex. So whether there was actual intercourse or not is irrelevant to me, it has the same meaning to me.
> 
> ...


I am probably one of the toughest posters on here, and I will lay off after this last post about this. When I read people trying to do what you are going to, the worst part is that so many of them are desperately trying to recover a marriage that is now just a memory. They don't realize that the marriage they have now is a different marriage and the person they are in that marriage with is a different person. Do yourself a favor and at least get to the point where you have an honest understanding of who your wife is now, what kind of person she is. How she really feels about you and your marriage. And what your new marriage will look like before you commit your entire life to her again. No matter what eventually you are going to come to this point, because that is the reality of the situation. You life is forever changed. I am sorry that that is true but it's better to accept it. The one thing in this whole situation that can't be replaced is time. 

Right now you are not thinking clearly, and no wonder. It takes some time, you need the emotional trauma you are experiencing to die down, so you can make a more logical/less emotional decision. Better to take a year to decide then to waste 5 and realize you made a mistake because you made a decision in the middle of one of the worst crisis of your life. 

The other thing is you need the whole truth because if you do try to do this and 5 years later you find out that she has still been lying to you for 5 more years you may have just wasted 5 years. The truth at least gives you a better chance. Most of us have been through it and then read a bunch of these posts, we all have seen the patterns. 

There are literally hundreds of stories, like this. Like pops up every day. All cheaters lie and minimize what they did. It is just baked into their nature. 

Finally you need to understand that no matter what your wife is not going to be the key to you getting over this. You are going to be the key and you will do that with or without her. For a lot of people it ends up being easier without her. 

Don't make the mistake of basing all your self worth, or dare I say potential happiness on your wife and marriage. That is an awful lie that you are probably telling yourself. I told myself that too, but it was SO not true. You will feel joy again. You will be happy again. You can find love again.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> If he doesn't come back soon, He will be back a few years like did.
> It breaks my heart to hear my former self in his words........


Hey Geena!!!!
Welcome to the club!!!!!
You just passed the initiation brother

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator Message:-*

Due to the fact that the Original poster has deleted the first post in this thread, it is now closed for further replies.


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