# Am I Crazy? Or is this the Smoking Gun?



## billbird2111

Married for nearly 14 years. The last year has been absolute Hell. When my wife's brother died unexpectedly she changed a great deal. She pulled away from me. She detached. She routinely lies now about where she's been, who she's been with, what she's been doing. I know this because I've caught her in some real whoppers.

She never acted like this before. I truly believed we were happy as a couple. I know I was. Key word: was. The past year has been horrific. When I joined this forum last night, I read a few posts from people who did some checking on their wives (I guess you could call it snooping). In some cases they found the "smoking gun." In other cases, they weren't sure. I'm in the second category. I'm not sure.

My wife was once my very best friend. We confided in each other about everything. We traded notes 20 or 30 times a day. Now? I don't hear from her at all. She's just stopped all communication with me.

I found this email thread between her and a gentleman I know. There were several of them to be honest. They were not in her email inbox. They were not in the trash section, which she routinely cleans (deletes). Nope. She forgot to clean out one other section of her email: the "sent" file. This is where I found them -- the exchanges. They will email each other 10-12 times in the space of four hours.

Now -- what you're about to see is just one of these exchanges. The names and places have been covered up to protect the innocent. TAM moderators? I need your help. I've never been through anything like this before. You, on the other hand, have seen a lot of this. What's the deal?

(9)
People
The Male
To
My Wife

Feb 9 at 7:14 AM
Think this is a job I could stomach?

https://www.employment.ucdavis.edu/applicants/jsp/shared/position/PrinterFriendlyJobDetails_css.jsp

Sent from my iPad
Reply Reply to All Forward More
My Wife
To
The Male

Feb 9 at 9:08 AM
The link won't open. In (a city) today. You aren't serious about leaving (your place of employment) though unless they invite you to leave, right?

Sent from my iPhone
Show original message
Reply Reply to All Forward More
The Male 
To
My Wife

Feb 9 at 11:02 AM
Seriously looking, yes. I need an intermediate step out of state worker coverage so that my options are more open. Ina position where I need more than a hobby job (I.e. Pension, even if measely)

Sent from my iPhone
Show original message
Reply Reply to All Forward More
My Wife
To
The Male

Feb 9 at 11:58 AM
This seems really rash, but I'm a little in the dark and don't want to be unsupportive. still can't open the damn link. Take a few breaths though. 

Sent from my iPhone
Show original message
Reply Reply to All Forward More
The Male
To:
My Wife

You are right. I need to calm down. Good advice. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 9, 2016, at 11:58 AM, 

Feb 9 at 12:07 PM
My Wife
To
The Male 

Feb 9 at 12:23 PM
Don't give into the Latin drama queen, she said from the Cuban restaurant

Sent from my iPhone
Show original message
Reply Reply to All Forward More
The Male 
To
My Wife 

Feb 9 at 1:05 PM
No. Sound advice. I will disclose more later, but as you prolly realize, personal life is turned inside out. Has me reevaluating a lot of things, including my job and how it feeds my insatiable ego. Plus, I have zero security if I wind up going forward alone. I like what I do, but it may be a job I can no longer afford.

Having said that, I'm not in a good place to decide **** right now. So I need to sit tight, calm down and wait. 

Sent from my iPhone
Show original message
Reply Reply to All Forward More
My Wife
To
The Male 

Feb 9 at 1:54 PM
Don't be so hard on yourself. Whatever; whenever, I'm here.

Sent from my iPhone
Show original message
Reply Reply to All Forward More
The Male 
To
My Wife 

Feb 9 at 1:59 PM
I know. Thanks

Sent from my iPhone
Show original message
Reply Reply to All Forward More


----------



## TDSC60

I don't see a smoking gun in the email exchange. But the fact that she is freezing you out and appearing to concentrate on the Other Man is not good. She could just be advising him on his career path, however, lots of Emotional Affairs can start that way. A traumatic event, especially the death of a family member, can cause a sudden change in behavior. 

Plus, if she is attempting to hide the communication with him from you, then she knows it is inappropriate for a married woman.

You have ample reason to keep investigating. Get a couple of VARs put one in her car. And one in the area of your home where she goes alone and takes her phone.


----------



## 225985

Bill, Your wife might be involved in an emotional affair with the other man. People often change after a significant death and start re-evaluating their life. If there is a void - either emotional or physical - they seek to fill it outside the marriage.

Does she work with the other man? Is he married? How do you know him and how long as your wife known him?

I read your other post and looks like classic EA.

You are not crazy.


----------



## billbird2111

blueinbr said:


> Bill, Your wife might be involved in an emotional affair with the other man. People often change after a significant death and start re-evaluating their life. If there is a void - either emotional or physical - they seek to fill it outside the marriage.
> 
> Does she work with the other man? Is he married? How do you know him and how long as your wife known him?
> 
> I read your other post and looks like classic EA.
> 
> You are not crazy.


The male is a reporter. My wife is an Information Officer. So, yes, they deal with each other professionally. Even I have to deal with this guy from time to time in my course of work.

What gets me is the number of exchanges between the two. This wasn't the only one. There are probably ten that I've discovered so far -- and each exchange is 10-12 messages each.

Again, there's no smoking gun except that his personal life is a wreck, which can be caused by infidelity. And the one line that she wrote back to him which concerns me a great deal: "Whatever, whenever, I'm there."

I keep going back to that line. It gets me. It really strikes at the gut. If she's seeing this guy, it would explain a lot of her behavior in the past year.

This is my second marriage. I met my second wife in the process of pulling away from my first one. She wasn't the cause of the problems in my first marriage, but she certainly accelerated the breakup.

And I know, from experience, that once you step out on a spouse and do the deed, it's over. The love dies. You can't get it back. You don't want it back. You're ready to move on.

So, yeah, I know what this could mean. If it means that.


----------



## TDSC60

If it is all innocent work related exchanges, why try to hide it from you?


----------



## billbird2111

TDSC60 said:


> I don't see a smoking gun in the email exchange. But the fact that she is freezing you out and appearing to concentrate on the Other Man is not good. She could just be advising him on his career path, however, lots of Emotional Affairs can start that way. A traumatic event, especially the death of a family member, can cause a sudden change in behavior.
> 
> Plus, if she is attempting to hide the communication with him from you, then she knows it is inappropriate for a married woman.
> 
> You have ample reason to keep investigating. Get a couple of VARs put one in her car. And one in the area of your home where she goes alone and takes her phone.


What is a VAR?


----------



## 225985

Where do you want to go from here? Do you want/more evidence so you can confront her? Do you want to stay married, and if yes, why?

VAR= voice activated recorder. Digital.


----------



## TDSC60

billbird2111 said:


> What is a VAR?


Voice Activated Recorder.

A handheld device to record conversations. Also buy some velcro so you can place it under the seat of the car. It will record her side of any conversation that take place in the car. Cheaters often talk to their affair partners in a place they cannot be overheard. 

Also should purchase some cheap ear buds. Cut the wire then use the plug. That way any dings or alarms remain unheard.

If you notice her going into one of the rooms in your house and having private conversations, put a VAR in that room too.


----------



## TDSC60

PS

Buy fresh batteries. Use the one that come with it to test and experiment with it. When you are ready to deploy it, put new batteries in.


----------



## 225985

@TDSC60 can you provide Bill the link to the standard evidence list?


----------



## whitewolf

I have learned from my many years of military experience that some problems require you to meet then head on. I suggest you sit down with your wife, look her in the eye and ask, " Do you still love me? Are you still IN love with me? Are you happy with me?" If you get a "yes" to these questions then you need to tell her how you feel about the last year. If you get a "no" then the next question should be, "Is there someone else?" A man and a woman can't fix something in their relationship unless they TALK to each other and be honest in their feelings.


----------



## billbird2111

blueinbr said:


> Where do you want to go from here? Do you want/more evidence so you can confront her? Do you want to stay married, and if yes, why?
> 
> VAR= voice activated recorder. Digital.


Honestly? What do I want? I want my wife back.

But, if my suspicions are correct and she's stepped out on me, I realize that is never going to happen. I'm old enough to know this isn't some Disney movie with a happy ending.

Where does one purchase a VAR? She doesn't run off and have conversations in a private room. But her car is a different story.

I want evidence that this happening or not happening. If it is happening, then I need to take steps to look out for number one.

Thanks for your advice everyone. I do appreciate it.


----------



## TDSC60

Try this;

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html?highlight=

Good luck


----------



## billbird2111

whitewolf said:


> I have learned from my many years of military experience that some problems require you to meet then head on. I suggest you sit down with your wife, look her in the eye and ask, " Do you still love me? Are you still IN love with me? Are you happy with me?" If you get a "yes" to these questions then you need to tell her how you feel about the last year. If you get a "no" then the next question should be, "Is there someone else?" A man and a woman can't fix something in their relationship unless they TALK to each other and be honest in their feelings.


Did that. I've been seeing a marriage counselor for about the past six months. She wanted me to bring my wife for one of the sessions and I did just that. The counselor put it to her straight: Do you want this marriage to continue? Are you willing to make it work? Her answer was yes to both.

But -- I don't put a lot of stock in that. I also said the same thing to a marriage counselor when I was with my first wife. I told him the same thing that my wife said. Only later, after my wife had left the room, did I tell him the truth. The answer was "no" because there was someone else in the picture. That someone else is my current wife.

Perhaps this is just karma coming back to bite me in the keester. I put someone else through Hell. Karma has a way of paying you back, in spades.


----------



## TDSC60

billbird2111 said:


> Honestly? What do I want? I want my wife back.
> 
> But, if my suspicions are correct and she's stepped out on me, I realize that is never going to happen. I'm old enough to know this isn't some Disney movie with a happy ending.
> 
> Where does one purchase a VAR? She doesn't run off and have conversations in a private room. But her car is a different story.
> 
> I want evidence that this happening or not happening. If it is happening, then I need to take steps to look out for number one.
> 
> Thanks for your advice everyone. I do appreciate it.


VAR can be bought at almost any place that deals in electronics of computers. Radio Shack, Wal Mart. But I recommend Best Buy. You don't want the el cheapo brand nor the expensive top of the line model.


----------



## x598

this isn't a "smoking gun"....rather its a gun that just hasn't been discharged yet.

red flag #1.....there is distance and loss of intimacy in your relationship

red flag #2.....you are unable to communicate feelings, either of you, empathetically...and if you did, they would fall on deaf ears.

red flag #3......she is opening up, sharing inappropriate and often one sided personal details of your marriage and her personal life. this is the BIGGEST red flag.

what you have here is the plain old text book definition of an emotional affair. she may not be shagging him, but you can't rule that out. if it hasn't happened yet...it will soon.

you are in a tough spot because if you call her out for what you know....she will lie, minimize, deflect, make you feel crazy and its all YOUR fault.

That in itself is your answer to how deep your marriage troubles go. 

some here would say wait, gather more intel, catch her red handed. and to a certain extent I agree. another strategy would be to print these emails out, sit here down, tell her this behavior is unfaithful to the marriage, and its OVER.

if she does anything other than begging you for forgiveness, coming 100% clean with the truth and doing anything other than what you ask for reassurance (passwords to phone and PC, no contact letter to said person, change jobs) then its a total loss anway and bding your time to just catch her in more damning behavior is just a waste of effort and your time.

good luck. sorry you are here.


----------



## Lostinthought61

if its not smoking now, i would say that it about to get get ****ed and ready to fire sometime in the not too distance future


----------



## ConanHub

WalMart for the VAR. Best Buy has some good selections.

Smoking gun, no. Seriously messed up if she is keeping this secret from you, hell yes.

Other emails have anything more damning?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 225985

Bill, I will be blunt. Did you cheat on your first wife with your current wife?


----------



## billbird2111

blueinbr said:


> Bill, I will be blunt. Did you cheat on your first wife with your current wife?


Fair question. The answer is no. I tried, she wouldn't let me get near her until the first wife as long gone. That relationship was pretty screwed up to begin with (the first marriage). I was young and stupid and broke two Cardinal rules.

1. Don't make any life-changing decisions after a family member dies
2. Don't marry any woman (or man) that relies upon daily medication to keep them sane and in check.

In my case, I was so broken up when my mom died, I reached out to my first wife. I was 27. Mom was the last connection I had with any type of home. My father died when I was just a child. I knew, deep down, that I should not have married her, but she offered warmth, happiness and a home that I could be a part of. I really didn't think much about the medication part, nor how she had been hospitalized twice for Schizophrenia. She was fine. But I didn't know that in California, you can quit that medication at any time. Nobody can force a mentally unstable person to continue to take their daily pill. If they decide to stop, oh well, you're up bat**** creek without a damn paddle. I wasn't made aware of this until AFTER she quit taking her meds, which was three years after we tied the knot. Suddenly, the woman I loved vanished and was replaced by a raving lunatic that scared the crap out of me. This is no joke. When I found that butcher knife she was keeping underneath the bed, I don't think I ever stayed another night with her. That and the waking up in the dead of night screaming that there was a snake in the bed or someone was in the house (there wasn't) -- was enough to drive me out.

It was at that point when my current wife walked into my life. My marriage was disintegrating and she offered a path I could follow out. But the sex would wait and wait and wait until the divorce papers were filed. The ex-wife and I hadn't seen each other for six months. Is it still cheating? Technically, I suppose. But it's not quite what you might think.

There are no other email chains that I've discovered that are as damming as the one I first pasted. The best I can tell is that these email chains with this other guy started last October. There are about 10-12 total, each with about six or seven responses between the two. To be dang honest, most of it is work related. They do not work together. They do not work for the same company. The wife is an Information Officer. Her email buddy is a reporter. By the way, both of us are former reporters. This is what former reporters do when they get old -- they become Information Officers for companies, school districts, government, etc.

I have never seen a brother and sister who were as close as my wife and her brother. They had something really special going on there. She supported her brother without question, her brother returned the favor. She did not like her brother's wife -- and still doesn't. In response, after the brother died, his wife cut off all communication with her brother's children, which are my wife's God children. So -- my wife not only lost her brother last March. She also lost all contact with her God children. Add to that the untimely death of her parents, and I really do think she just went off the edge. That's what the counselor thinks. But I also think she's pulling away. She also lost a bunch of weight and adopted a yoga routine two months ago. My wife is 46 and looks like she's 36. She's a former TV reporter. I'm not going to lie to you. She's eye-candy. You don't become a TV reporter if you're not eye candy.

So -- that's where it stands. She actually came out and did a little gardening today, which was nice. We loved to garden together. Absolutely loved it. But she's slowly pulled away from that activity as well. She spends a lot of time now with a new friend she made after her brother passed. They are similar in age and experience. The friend is married, but to a man who is 30 years her senior. They are vino partners. They are Yoga partners. I don't interfere, but I know this new friend has far too much influence over her. If she were to tell her to jump off a cliff, she just might. But -- so far nothing like this has happened. They do spend a great amount of time together though.


----------



## tech-novelist

billbird2111 said:


> But I also think she's pulling away. She also lost a bunch of weight and adopted a yoga routine two months ago. My wife is 46 and looks like she's 36. She's a former TV reporter. I'm not going to lie to you. She's eye-candy. You don't become a TV reporter if you're not eye candy.


You are in deep trouble. A woman losing a lot of weight and pulling away from you is an enormous red flag. You need to find out how far this has gone, right now! Follow the standard evidence thread, which I see someone has already posted.

And pretend you are still in the dark or she will take it underground!


----------



## harrybrown

Do you have kids?

If she is in exit mode, you may want to beat her to the punch.

You see a counselor for six months, she comes once.

You can't fix it by yourself.

See an attorney to see about your options.


----------



## 225985

blueinbr said:


> Bill, I will be blunt. Did you cheat on your first wife with your current wife?





billbird2111 said:


> *Fair question. The answer is no.* I tried, she wouldn't let me get near her until the first wife as long gone.
> 
> It was at that point when my current wife walked into my life. My marriage was disintegrating and she offered a path I could follow out. But the sex would wait and wait and wait until the divorce papers were filed. The ex-wife and I hadn't seen each other for six months.* Is it still cheating? **Technically, I suppose. But it's not quite what you might think.*


Bill, as you know, cheating just does not mean sex. What you did was have an emotional affair during your first marriage. I sympathize with you. Your marriage was gone and you feared for your life. You were right to divorce, but you still had an affair. 

Look at the parallels. You were unhappy in first marriage. Close family member died. You found a new friend and became emotionally invested in her.

Your wife is doing the same thing. Unhappy in marriage. Family member dies. Sought emotional comfort outside the marriage. Does this look similar to you? Plus she was your prior affair partner. She had no problem with an affair then with you, so same ethics and morals allows her to do same as what you did. The only major difference is that you are not sleeping with a knife in your bed.

The weight loss, many texts, even work related, secrecy all point to classic emotional affair, at a minimum. Do you have any thoughts about why she is unhappy with your marriage? "The last year has been absolute Hell." Tell what happened during the last year. That might help us find a path to save your marriage.


----------



## seeking sanity

You are best to be the aggressor here, regardless of what you want. To me the biggest red flag was "if I go my own way" which I assume referred to your relationship. She'll lining up a new job to have financial security to dump you, is my read on it.

If you wait for things to unfold you will have no hand. If you assert yourself now and detach yourself, you may shake her into coming around.


----------



## MattMatt

Bill, you did cheat on your first wife.

So, you are sort of expecting your second wife to be a cheater, because you were one yourself.

There is no smoking gun in the exchange but there is a clue. A clue that tells me she is not having an affair with the journalist (well, who'd want a relationship with one of them, right?  I am a journalist! ).

But she does consider that she may be moving on without you.

You need to address the issues with couple's counselling.


----------



## Chaparral

How does our wife explain putting you on the back burner?


----------



## turnera

What does she say when you ask her about all this?


----------



## Sports Fan

Bill there are definately red flags you should be concerned about. You need to start discreetly investiagting ASAP.

Aside from her withdrawing emotionally how are things in the bedroom. I presume the frequencey has dropped?

As instructed buy two good quality VARS place one under her car seat strapped with Velcro and Lithium batteries and another in the house in a spot you think she will most likely talk in.

Additionally try and get access to her phone. Does she keep that under lock and guard?


----------



## OldWolf57

First, forget that cheated on first wife stuff.

She got off her meds, and you was 6 mo's gone.

Sorry guys, just don't compute.

Now, you say it's been a year. Don't know if she is seeing someone else, but it don't seem to be him.

I would take a closer look at the new friend.

Why? New friend has an older hubby, and LOT's of free time. She may be the AP, or the wingman.

The pulling away is the biggest red flag. She is investing emotionally somewhere else.
Also, you wouldn't be the first BS here who's wife left for another woman.
Also can't see her leaving you for her, if it's her. That chick sound like she got it all.
Old man that give her all the toys and freedom she want. So she won't rock that boat.
Hell, she may bring him playmates,,, "your wife".

On here, we have seen it all.
From ww's taking wedding dress across country to make vids with internet ap, to ww leaving BS to join swingers groups.
So we are not surprised much here.

What I think you need to do, is take some time and decide what you want from your wife.
Once you have those, set her down, TELL her, "not explain" that you are not getting these, and see no reason to continue the marriage if things don't change.
Explain how in the past you guys was best friends, but now it seem as you are no more than a roommate.

I think you get the idea. but I would also put a VAR in her car before approaching her.
You may not even have to have that convo.

Sorry you here, but you did find the right ppl to see you through this.


----------



## jnj express

If your at the point in your mge, where she picks/complains a good % of the time---it is time to have a serious conversation, about where the mge., is going, and what is to be done. If she refuses, then you need to do something to move her one way or the other, either toward working out the problem, or looking at D.----you do not want to continue on living in the misery you are now in.
She seems from prior dealings to be straight, in that she wouldn't get involved sexually till you had a D.----that may well be the case here, and she may be in an EA, or starting up an Exit A., the last, are also major reasons for you to have a serious sit down, face to face, and get it all out on the table.
Usually when a cheater is cheating, they will also try to satisfy their partner, to deceive the partner as to what is going on, here that doesn't seem to be the case----from what you describe she is just plain unhappy with something or things, again you need a sit down face to face, and get it all out in the open.
Does your wife work for/with the school of Veterinary Medicine there at Davis, the Large Animal Clinic Director is a friend of mine, also the prior director, use to be my Vet. at the racetrack, they are both good people, and knowing them as well as I do----they are not the type of people to allow, their staff members to stain the reputation of the school. Hang in and do what you need to do, but no matter what do something to force this out in the open!!!!!!


----------



## aine

Bill,

A few questions

1. How supportive were you when your W's brother died? Did you lend her support or let her handle it alone
Just wondering because she seems to have pulled away after that. A woman will pull away if she feels she is not supported and loved in a crisis such as this.

2. The emails are not really a smoking gun, though she is investing time in another male which could lead to an A

3. YOur biggest worry is her pulling away from you, something triggered that. You should talk to her, be open and honest about how your feel and ask her what is going on.

4. In the mean time VAR her car, check the computer, phone, etc when you can.


----------



## billbird2111

I suppose it's time to be really open with all of you. I didn't want to discuss this, but when you read this, I can guess what your reaction is going to be. However, what I'm about to tell you is the truth and nothing but the truth.

It's been a sex-less marriage for about the past 3-4 years. Not her fault -- mine. Not totally my fault, but medical issues beyond my control.

Since most of the people I'm speaking to are guys -- I'm sure -- at some point -- most of you have seen the film Black Hawk Down, about American involvement in Somalia. There's a scene during a particularly ferocious battle, where a soldier essentially bleeds out and dies. It's because the artery in his leg has ruptured, and the field tech trying to save the soldier's live can't reach it to stem the bleeding. End result, the soldier dies. This was a true story. This really happened. This artery that runs through the leg is also real. I know, because surgeons have opened mine up three times since I turned 39 (I'm 52 now). This was the original procedure to insert a stent into an artery near the heart that had become blocked. The surgeon would make a small incision in the leg near the groin, open up the artery, stick a tube in to open up the artery and then stick another tube inside the first one. The second tube contains a camera. The surgeon pushes this tube up through the artery to the heart muscle, shoots in a bunch of green dye, and takes a bunch of vacation photos. When and if they find a blockage, another tube is inserted into the artery. This tube contains a mesh metal stent. The surgeon guides it to the blocked artery, inserts the stent and springs a trap to open it up. The first procedure, to take pictures of the heart, is called an angiogram. The followup procedure, to insert a stent, is called angioplasty.

I know this sounds harsh, especially if you haven't been through it. But it's a far better option than cracking open the chest for open heart surgery and a double, triple or quadruple bypass. That's serious (as serious as a heart attack).

That procedure, which took place when I was 39, went well. I felt great. The leg healed in a day or two. I went on a weight loss routine and life was even better. The sex was great. But the real problem developed when I had to go in for another procedure about five years ago. My blood pressure had suddenly gone through the roof. I have great health insurance, and since I had this problem with a blocked artery before, the physicians though (rightly so), that another one might be blocked. That would explain the increase in blood pressure. Again -- I was admitted to the cardiac unit for an angiogram. This is where things went horribly, terribly wrong. I knew something wasn't right when the attending nurse began the process of removing the tubes from the artery once the procedure was finished. It hurt. It's not supposed to hurt. It's not comfortable, but it's not supposed to hurt. This one did. Bad. As the pain began to increase, I asked the nurse to stop. She responded that she had to get the tube out of the artery right away, or I could bleed to death. She continued to tug and pull until the point where it got so painful that I started screaming bloody murder. That got the attention of a nearby cardiologist, who figured out pretty quickly that the tube in the artery had somehow got stuck. Worse yet -- the nurse had ripped it WIDE OPEN. I was gushing blood. The rip, I was told, was about six inches.

I was rushed into surgery where a series of injections were made into the area where the rip had taken place. The idea was to thicken the blood, make it congeal, and let the artery heal on its own. The procedure did work. They kept me awake the whole time. And, after about 30 minutes of shot after shot, the bleeding had pretty much stopped.

But that was just the start of an even larger problem. About a quart of blood had leaked out of the wound and into the leg. Because the blood in the artery congealed, the blood in the leg near the groin did the same. Imagine a water balloon in your groin. And there was nothing the doctors could do to get it out. It was simply too dangerous to go digging around near that artery again. I was told the blood bubble would eventually go away on its own. It did -- it took months -- but sex was never the same after that. It was INCREDIBLY painful, especially when the wife was on top. You can imagine her grinding down on that blood bubble. Sex still felt good, but man it was painful.

But, slowly, through the years, I began to lose my ability to get an erection of any type. The doctor prescribed Viagra, but that just made me feel like I was having a heart attack. Plus -- the resulting experience was anything but satisfying. I would satisfy my wife -- but I got absolutely nothing out of it. There was just no feeling there.

So -- sex today is whatever I can do for her with my fingers, mouth or toys. But I feel embarrassed -- less than a man. I mean -- if you cannot get or sustain an erection -- what kind of life is that? Pretty soon, it started to affect my self-confidence. I just didn't want to go through the motions anymore.

My wife is as sexy as she's ever been. I continue to be attracted to her. But, at the same time, I don't act on that attraction anymore. Worse yet, when some surgeries on my back and achilles tendons from "exercise injuries, it brought and end to working out and losing weight. I still eat healthy. I still walk around the neighborhood for daily exercise. But the days of hitting the weight room hard are pretty much over for me. I just can't go through the pain of another back surgery for spinal stenosis again.

So -- that's it guys. That's the whole story. Funny that I would reveal this to you, when it is a deep, dark secret that I am terribly embarrassed and depressed by. This lack of being able to please her (she is six years younger) is probably the reason why I'm losing her.


----------



## MattMatt

Damn.

It's not a deep, dark secret. It's a story of medical negligence and catastrophe, which you are doing your best to deal with.

Inspirational rather than embarrassing. 

Have you been as open with your wife about this situation and your feelings about it?

BTW, as a journalist I have got used to people telling me their life story. Maybe that's what happened with your wife and the journalist? :scratchhead:

I don't know why, it just happens.


----------



## turnera

So...because you haven't (I assume) gone to therapy to deal with your new feelings of inadequacy (not being a real man), you now assume you are worthless and any day now she's going to realize it and leave you.

Is that about right?

If so, what are you doing to FIX those feelings of inadequacy?

You know, instead of becoming hypervigilant on catching her cheating?

Women fall out of love with insecure men. In fact, they grow to dislike them. Even distance themselves from them. Maybe what you're experiencing is that.



> This lack of being able to please her (she is six years younger) is probably the reason why I'm losing her.


And so you know, you described above ALL THE WAYS in which you satisfy her. And yet here you say you don't. What you REALLY mean is that you feel you're not satisfying her because you are using YOUR metric - a man's metric - for what satisfying means. And being six years younger? Just another symptom that this is all about your low self worth; as in, why would a hot YOUNG THING be interested in an ugly old man like me? 

Time for therapy. And take her with you so she can be your PARTNER.


----------



## MattMatt

turnera said:


> So...because you haven't (I assume) gone to therapy to deal with your new feelings of inadequacy (not being a real man), you now assume you are worthless and any day now she's going to realize it and leave you.
> 
> Is that about right?
> 
> If so, what are you doing to FIX those feelings of inadequacy?
> 
> You know, instead of becoming hypervigilant on catching her cheating?
> 
> Women fall out of love with insecure men. In fact, they grow to dislike them. Even distance themselves from them. Maybe what you're experiencing is that.
> 
> And so you know, you described above ALL THE WAYS in which you satisfy her. And yet here you say you don't. What you REALLY mean is that you feel you're not satisfying her because you are using YOUR metric - a man's metric - for what satisfying means. And being six years younger? Just another symptom that this is all about your low self worth; as in, why would a hot YOUNG THING be interested in an ugly old man like me?
> 
> Time for therapy. And take her with you so she can be your PARTNER.


Unless she thinks Bill doesn't really love her any more?


----------



## billbird2111

turnera said:


> So...because you haven't (I assume) gone to therapy to deal with your new feelings of inadequacy (not being a real man), you now assume you are worthless and any day now she's going to realize it and leave you.
> 
> Is that about right?
> 
> If so, what are you doing to FIX those feelings of inadequacy?
> 
> You know, instead of becoming hypervigilant on catching her cheating?
> 
> Women fall out of love with insecure men. In fact, they grow to dislike them. Even distance themselves from them. Maybe what you're experiencing is that.
> 
> And so you know, you described above ALL THE WAYS in which you satisfy her. And yet here you say you don't. What you REALLY mean is that you feel you're not satisfying her because you are using YOUR metric - a man's metric - for what satisfying means. And being six years younger? Just another symptom that this is all about your low self worth; as in, why would a hot YOUNG THING be interested in an ugly old man like me?
> 
> Time for therapy. And take her with you so she can be your PARTNER.


I've always been insecure. Always. I was when I met her. Could not believe this hot young thing was interested in me. Counted my lucky damn stars. Felt the same damn way when we got married. Why is this gorgeous lady, six years my junior, agreeing to this? Felt so damn lucky.

Did I forget to mention she was/is wealthy? Not millions rich, but we have a comfortable life together. Can you begin to see why I thought, and to this damn day, believe I was lucky?

That insecurity goes way back, long before I met her. It would take a lifetime's worth of therapy to deal with it.

I don't show it on the surface. You are seeing it here because I"ve laid it out in detail for you. I'm not hiding anything. But I don't allow that insecurity to interfere with the relationship. There are no rules. There is no "you must be home at a certain time," or "you may not see this person or that person." I don't tell her how lucky I feel either. Or, "how can you stand to be with someone like me?" No, I'm not like that. The insecurity remains well hidden.

But is it there? Yeah...


----------



## TDSC60

Go to a urologist about the ED. 

Check with your cardiologist about taking something along the lines of Cialis. You might be surprised at how that can help.

The days of sex like a 30 year old are gone - accept it. You cannot measure you performance against that. But you might get back enough to keep you both satisfied if your wife is understanding and willing to help you through this. Open and honest communication with your wife is a must. Tell her how you feel and tell her you expect the truth from her and for her to not try to protect you from getting hurt.

I am talking from personal experience here. A big problem is your low self worth from the changes and fear of failure. What have you got to lose? The talk I had with my wife helped beyond measure and our sex life has improved.

Edit: I tried Viagra early on. Felt like I was having a stroke. The pain in my head sometimes stopped me right in the middle of having sex.


----------



## jsmart

What you revealed in your last 2 post is very heavy. The only thing I can suggest is to make the effort to give her attention that lets her know you appreciate her and find ways to sexually please her. There is nothing wrong with letting her know you're in love with her and feel lucky to have a girl like her. 

I can understand the insecurity due to your situation combined with having a wife with a very high sex rank.
It's critical for a husband to always be their wife's rock but in your situation it's doubly so. 

I'm concerned about her pulling away from you after the death of her brother. Death of a love one will cause a person to reassess their life. Were you there for her? I wonder if an interloper saw an opening to "be there" for her and she's replaced you as her emotional rock. 

You would be derelict to not do your due diligence and check things out. Check phone records, email, social media, Velcro a VAR under passenger seat of her car seat. If there is something going on, you'll know within days. If not, you get your but into over drive to rewin her heart. But if there is something going on, trying to nice her back will just repel her further away. 

The red flag is not the email, it's the pulling away. This is not a time for putting your head in the sand or playing the political correct meme that I imagine someone of your background would believe in. "invading her privacy." No such thing. She's your wife. Like a fellow TAMer always says, Privacy in a marriage is for the bathroom not to hide an affair.


----------



## turnera

billbird2111 said:


> I've always been insecure. Always. I was when I met her. Could not believe this hot young thing was interested in me. Counted my lucky damn stars. Felt the same damn way when we got married. Why is this gorgeous lady, six years my junior, agreeing to this? Felt so damn lucky.
> 
> Did I forget to mention she was/is wealthy? Not millions rich, but we have a comfortable life together. Can you begin to see why I thought, and to this damn day, believe I was lucky?
> 
> That insecurity goes way back, long before I met her. It would take a lifetime's worth of therapy to deal with it.
> 
> I don't show it on the surface. You are seeing it here because I"ve laid it out in detail for you. I'm not hiding anything. But I don't allow that insecurity to interfere with the relationship. There are no rules. There is no "you must be home at a certain time," or "you may not see this person or that person." I don't tell her how lucky I feel either. Or, "how can you stand to be with someone like me?" No, I'm not like that. The insecurity remains well hidden.
> 
> But is it there? Yeah...


So? What are you doing about it? THAT's the problem in your marriage.


----------



## giddiot

Damn I've had 4 angiograms and 3 angioplasties. Never knew it could go that awry.


----------



## billbird2111

giddiot said:


> Damn I've had 4 angiograms and 3 angioplasties. Never knew it could go that awry.


Yes, it can. Especially if you're really unlucky.

Saw the marriage therapist tonight. Don't know if she was impressed by the VAR idea -- and didn't even want to read the email. So, I read the questionable part to her.

She wants me to confront her. Now. Get it out in the open. Get an answer one way or another.

I think she's just tired of seeing me.

The email exchange between her and this guy continued tonight. Eight different messages to one another. Jeez. Totally innocent, but jeez. Why the f**k is she emailing this clown back and forth?


----------



## arbitrator

*Good News ~ Bad News!

Good News ~ At worst, it sounds like only an EA!

Bad News ~ EA's are just the first step toward PA's! It still has some time to be circumvented by your personal intervention! If she comes around, then it will be worth it! If not, then you'll truly know where her heart is! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

BB2311, had 3 blockages, got 2 done with 1 stent, but place of 3rd require a more complicated procedure.
Spent the 29th all day under a sheet hooked up, shaved, and ready,, no go, 1 case got complicated, and chopper kept coming in.
Go friday, but now, "LOL."
I never heard of that happening. With this 1 friday, and another for right carotid coming up, man!!!!

Anyway, I've had some in my right thigh for yrs., and need a graft for the left. So kinda know a little of what you speak.
I was always advised not to do the lil blue because of heart, so pleasing wife can complicate.
Now add my wife is bedridden. desire get complicated when you have to change someone my man.
But, with all that, we still have fun.

Self esteem is tricky, so is desire.

You don't seem to have to manufacture desire, but you need to accept unless something change, your limits, and take pride is still being able to give her pleasure.
To me, it's a glass half full, not half empty.

As stated, the pulling away is the red flag, along with her new vino buddy.
Investigate, and if nothing found, it's time for the talk.


----------



## nursejackie

Billbird-I had an A with a coworker. Thats how it started- just little notes (back before texts etc). They were innocent- sometimes funny, mostly just comments about work. Those notes eventually became longer and more frequent. They started to contain more personal things like hopes, thoughts and dreams. I had a perfectly good husband who I loved at home and never dreamed I would step out on him. 

Eventually those notes held a form of intimacy-undivided attention and admiration that I didn't think I was receiving at home. The Affair partner looked more and more like he "got" me better than the guy at home. Given time-and I now suspect a lot of calculated predatory behaviour from the OM-this EA crossed the line and become physical. 

My H recently pulled away from the marriage for about 6 months- I looked at his phone and found frequent texts between him and a coworker. They were innocent mostly about work but there were a few questionable ones "you're the best" (he was complimenting her for a job well done) "we make a great team" (they had solved some problems the night before while working together). I asked him if he was turning towards her to get his physical or emotional needs met ? Of course he denied it. I also found out he had gone to her house several times (to help her move things..)He lied about this and talking to her on the phone for half his lunch when she was off sick- I did the VAR and got only him ranting about how he won't take a poly cuz he didn't do anything….We have been going to marriage counselling and are still together. 

Heres what I think happened-our marriage got boring, I wasn't looking after myself, not interested in sex-along comes a new woman who works with him-they chat and text and find they have things in common, they are good listeners for each other, share day to day innocent stuff. They don't feel like they are doing anything wrong. He pulls further away at home. They find more reasons to spend time together- go to workshops, conferences together, lunches, work socials…..he will never admit to an EA or PA. Its over (EA/PA) at any rate and our new marriage is getting better and better. I still operate under trust and verify.

You seem like you are in a similar boat. I might mention as well that the desire for sex came back through starting on Wellbutrin (it increases Dopamine) losing a bit of weight and hysterical bonding.

Good luck to you. I hope things can be turned around for you both.


----------



## snerg

billbird2111 said:


> But, slowly, through the years, I began to lose my ability to get an erection of any type. The doctor prescribed Viagra, but that just made me feel like I was having a heart attack. Plus -- the resulting experience was anything but satisfying. I would satisfy my wife -- but I got absolutely nothing out of it. There was just no feeling there.
> 
> So -- sex today is whatever I can do for her with my fingers, mouth or toys. But I feel embarrassed -- less than a man. I mean -- if you cannot get or sustain an erection -- what kind of life is that? Pretty soon, it started to affect my self-confidence. I just didn't want to go through the motions anymore.


Two things:
1) See a good urologist - get your TLvls checked and plumbing looked at
2) Penile implant. Start researching that today





billbird2111 said:


> Worse yet, when some surgeries on my back and achilles tendons from "exercise injuries, it brought and end to working out and losing weight. I still eat healthy. I still walk around the neighborhood for daily exercise. But the days of hitting the weight room hard are pretty much over for me. I just can't go through the pain of another back surgery for spinal stenosis again.
> .


You need to shift your paradigm about working out.

Can't lift weights - change your approach.

Get a sport wheel chair - there are ones with variable resistance for wheelchair athletes to help build strength and endurance.

Use that to build upper body strength and endurance.
Do leg lifts and planks to build your core
Do wall sits and weight free squats and lunges for back and legs

It's all in how you approach things. 
Positive thought breeds success.
Negative thought breeds failure

Fix the low hanging fruit first - start your paradigm shift to change the extremely simple things about you that don't like.

Move on to more difficult issues with help of specialists (MC for example).

Always look to the positive.


----------



## Happilymarried25

My husband is impotent due to diabetes. It started with ED and he was embarrassed so he would say he was tired and stressed and go to bed early to avoid me. He didn't want to be intimate in other ways because he couldn't "finish the job". It did affect my self esteem, my own husband didn't want anything to do with me. I never thought about cheating. He eventually did go to the Dr and now he gives himself a shot to get erect and now we have a normal sex life. He did look at getting a penile implant but we thought it was to invasive a procedure.


----------



## OldWolf57

BB2111, Hope all is well.

We do care my friend.
I'm sitting next to my hospital bed reading threads, and you was my first thought.

No ripped arteries, but they was unable to unblock, so angio meds from now on.

I pray you are OK and thinking more in the positive.
You don't have to plow the back forty like a white mouth mule to get the job done Bro.
So work what you got, and worry if she's going to do you back LOL.


----------



## SunCMars

Wow,

Tell us about these whoppers that she uttered. This may give us a hint of her recent and current mindset. Seriously consider a penile implant. An older friend who had his prostate removed had one installed. He was very anxious about it. His younger wife was dead set against it. She recanted later saying it is not noticeable and works fine. Good luck.


----------



## becareful

BB2111,

It helps that you tell us all this but your wife is the one who needs to hear it more. Tell her how lucky you feel to be married to her, commiserate with her tragic losses and tell her you want to be the shoulder that she leans on. Let down your wall and let her in. Express your concerns in a gentle, non-accusatory tone. Tell her how beautiful she is. Tell her if there's any way to fix your medical condition, that you'd do it to strengthen your marriage. 

She's been pulling away and you're soaking in your misery. Collect all the evidence you want but at the same time, fight your way back into her heart. Like the other poster said, what have you got to lose? It may be a Hail Mary pass but that seems to be your best bet right now. Cook her a nice dinner or take her out for a date. EI did everything she could to save her marriage when her husband was pulling away but you haven't even begun, I don't think. It's time to bring your A game.

If you can't lift any more, then swim. Join a gym with a swimming pool and swim to get back in shape. There are many things you can do besides lifting. 

Chasing after the evidence of an affair is being reactive, in this situation. Be proactive instead and fight for your wife's heart.


----------



## billbird2111

becareful said:


> BB2111,
> 
> It helps that you tell us all this but your wife is the one who needs to hear it more. Tell her how lucky you feel to be married to her, commiserate with her tragic losses and tell her you want to be the shoulder that she leans on. Let down your wall and let her in. Express your concerns in a gentle, non-accusatory tone. Tell her how beautiful she is. Tell her if there's any way to fix your medical condition, that you'd do it to strengthen your marriage.
> 
> She's been pulling away and you're soaking in your misery. Collect all the evidence you want but at the same time, fight your way back into her heart. Like the other poster said, what have you got to lose? It may be a Hail Mary pass but that seems to be your best bet right now. Cook her a nice dinner or take her out for a date. EI did everything she could to save her marriage when her husband was pulling away but you haven't even begun, I don't think. It's time to bring your A game.
> 
> If you can't lift any more, then swim. Join a gym with a swimming pool and swim to get back in shape. There are many things you can do besides lifting.
> 
> Chasing after the evidence of an affair is being reactive, in this situation. Be proactive instead and fight for your wife's heart.


I fought. I lost. She's been having sex with the guy since last December and probably earlier than that. How do I know? She finally admitted it last night. Came out and came clean. Then told me that she loved him, had no intention of stopping the relationship and would rather be with him than with me.

Not sure what to do next. But I have contacted a divorce attorney. I was going to move -- but why put stress on the dog like that? She's the one who cheated. Make sure the dog has a backyard to play in and send the wife packing.

That's the way I'm looking at it right now. She's responsible for this mess. Let her clean it up in her own way -- but not in my house and not under my nose.


----------



## GusPolinski

billbird2111 said:


> I fought. I lost. She's been having sex with the guy since last December and probably earlier than that. How do I know? She finally admitted it last night. Came out and came clean. Then told me that she loved him, had no intention of stopping the relationship and would rather be with him than with me.
> 
> Not sure what to do next. *But I have contacted a divorce attorney. I was going to move -- but why put stress on the dog like that? She's the one who cheated. Make sure the dog has a backyard to play in and send the wife packing.
> 
> That's the way I'm looking at it right now. She's responsible for this mess. Let her clean it up in her own way -- but not in my house and not under my nose.*


Yep.

Also, if he's married, expose to his wife.

Sorry man.


----------



## billbird2111

GusPolinski said:


> Yep.
> 
> Also, if he's married, expose to his wife.
> 
> Sorry man.


I could do that. Easily. I could also inform his superiors of what he's doing. McClatchy newspapers don't put up with that kind of crap, man. They fire employees on the spot who do this.

But I'm going to take the high road Gus. Why take actions that will hurt two young children? And by telling his wife, that's exactly what I do, hurt two young children.

I'm not out to hurt this man's kids. I'm not out to hurt this man's wife. They are the innocent parties in this matter. Like you, I don't like leaving anyone in the dark. If I'm being made a fool of, I put a stop to it. If other people are being made out as fools, I should put a stop to it.

But the only people hurt by that action is an innocent woman and two young, innocent kids. I'm not into hurting the kids. And exposing this to his wife would hurt the kids the most.

I'm the product of a broken home. I know what it feels like. I'm not going there.


----------



## MattMatt

billbird2111 said:


> I could do that. Easily. I could also inform his superiors of what he's doing. McClatchy newspapers don't put up with that kind of crap, man. They fire employees on the spot who do this.
> 
> But I'm going to take the high road Gus. Why take actions that will hurt two young children? And by telling his wife, that's exactly what I do, hurt two young children.
> 
> *I'm not out to hurt this man's kids. I'm not out to hurt this man's wife.* They are the innocent parties in this matter. Like you, I don't like leaving anyone in the dark. If I'm being made a fool of, I put a stop to it. If other people are being made out as fools, I should put a stop to it.
> 
> But the only people hurt by that action is an innocent woman and two young, innocent kids. I'm not into hurting the kids. And exposing this to his wife would hurt the kids the most.
> 
> I'm the product of a broken home. I know what it feels like. I'm not going there.


You are right. You are *not* out to hurt his kids and his wife. That is all *his* doing. *He* is hurting them, not you.

And do tell her and your silly wife to get tested for STDs, as there is no telling how many other lovers he has.


----------



## 225985

billbird2111 said:


> And by telling his wife, that's exactly what I do, hurt two young children.


Bill,

I am sorry this happened. 

However, what good can come from NOT telling his wife? She deserves to know what is going on so that SHE can make plans now to help her and the kids. She needs her own exit plan or her own plan to reconcile with her H, if they both decide later. Keeping her in the dark does NOT help her. 

Do you think it is kinder and more compassionate if you do nothing, and months later she finds out from HIM? When he gives short notice and just disappears or wrecks the finances?

She will find out. She will. It is just a matter of when.

Help her Bill. If you do not want to out them at work, fine. We understand that. But the poor wife deserves better. You can provide that help to her and the kids.

At least think about it.


----------



## GusPolinski

billbird2111 said:


> I could do that. Easily. I could also inform his superiors of what he's doing. McClatchy newspapers don't put up with that kind of crap, man. They fire employees on the spot who do this.
> 
> But I'm going to take the high road Gus. Why take actions that will hurt two young children? And by telling his wife, that's exactly what I do, hurt two young children.
> 
> I'm not out to hurt this man's kids. I'm not out to hurt this man's wife. They are the innocent parties in this matter. Like you, I don't like leaving anyone in the dark. If I'm being made a fool of, I put a stop to it. If other people are being made out as fools, I should put a stop to it.
> 
> But the only people hurt by that action is an innocent woman and two young, innocent kids. I'm not into hurting the kids. And exposing this to his wife would hurt the kids the most.
> 
> I'm the product of a broken home. I know what it feels like. I'm not going there.


You've got it all wrong, man.

You'd stand by and let this guy's BW watch as her marriage evaporates in front of her eyes? And, once her WH decides to leave her, _completely unaware_ that he's left her for another woman w/ whom he's been in a relationship for the past several months or (possibly, by that time) years?

Come on, man. Do the right thing and tell her what's going on while she still has a chance to save her marriage and family.


----------



## Lostinthought61

So instead you want the OM wife to learn the hard way instead of preparing to protect herself and the kids....I disagree with your path...its not the high road but the back road.


----------



## Maxo

billbird2111 said:


> I could do that. Easily. I could also inform his superiors of what he's doing. McClatchy newspapers don't put up with that kind of crap, man. They fire employees on the spot who do this.
> 
> But I'm going to take the high road Gus. Why take actions that will hurt two young children? And by telling his wife, that's exactly what I do, hurt two young children.
> 
> I'm not out to hurt this man's kids. I'm not out to hurt this man's wife. They are the innocent parties in this matter. Like you, I don't like leaving anyone in the dark. If I'm being made a fool of, I put a stop to it. If other people are being made out as fools, I should put a stop to it.
> 
> But the only people hurt by that action is an innocent woman and two young, innocent kids. I'm not into hurting the kids. And exposing this to his wife would hurt the kids the most.
> 
> I'm the product of a broken home. I know what it feels like. I'm not going there.


I read this thread and sympathize with your situation.
But, this not telling business is utter cowardice and immoral.


----------



## Palodyne

Gus Polinski is spot on here brother, listen to him. You are not hurting the kids by tell the Other Mans Wife. You are giving her information she has a right to know. She is being lied to and cheated on, she is being betrayed and played for the fool, just like you were. The ones that hurt the kids are your cheating wife and the lowlife Other Man. Don't hide this. Drag their affair out into the open.

By keeping this secret you are not protecting the Other Mans Wife and kids. You are protecting the Other Man and your cheating Wife!


----------



## Satya

billbird2111 said:


> I fought. I lost.



If it means anything, you didn't lose from my perspective. Losing implies she had value. Maybe she had an initial value to you, but it went way down the moment she chose to be unfaithful.


----------



## LucasJackson

billbird2111 said:


> I could do that. Easily. I could also inform his superiors of what he's doing. McClatchy newspapers don't put up with that kind of crap, man. They fire employees on the spot who do this.
> 
> But I'm going to take the high road Gus. Why take actions that will hurt two young children? And by telling his wife, that's exactly what I do, hurt two young children.
> 
> I'm not out to hurt this man's kids. I'm not out to hurt this man's wife. They are the innocent parties in this matter. Like you, I don't like leaving anyone in the dark. If I'm being made a fool of, I put a stop to it. If other people are being made out as fools, I should put a stop to it.
> 
> But the only people hurt by that action is an innocent woman and two young, innocent kids. I'm not into hurting the kids. And exposing this to his wife would hurt the kids the most.
> 
> I'm the product of a broken home. I know what it feels like. I'm not going there.


His wife deserves to know. Since you know, and are involved, then keeping it from her makes you an accomplice to her betrayal.


----------



## ABHale

His wife needs to know to protect her kids! 

Once your wife is out what do you think is going to happen? The **** is going to hit the fan.

Yes it will hurt at first, better then him just up and leaving them in the dark of night.

Remember the e-mail exchanges, he is planning on leaving. At lest give the POS's wife a chance to ready herself before it happens.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Funny how the "high road" comment always seems to allow something shady to continue. Seriously, you know how this feels from BOTH sides. You were basically in Limbo for 4 months, you were in turmoil and got hit by the karma bus, but you think you are protecting her kids and family by taking the high road? I used to be a "high road" cop out type of guy. Then I realized, "high road" has many meanings and some are flat out wrong. 

Not engaging in a fight, name calling or other actions even if it feels warranted is the "high road."
Not snitching, most of you are not career felons, is not the high road. The best part is felons and the whole "honor among thieves" garbage is mainly BS. Go look at how many co-conspirators "snitch" each other out to save their own skin.
Hiding an affair is not the high road.
Minding your business is NOT always the "high road."


Tell her so, she can be prepared for life if she chooses to stay and share her husband.


----------



## Be smart

Sorry to hear that my friend. Keep calm and dont do anything silly,you are going to be alright.Lot of happy years in front of you,especially not that cheating wife is out of your life.

Talk with your lawyer and see your rights. Your wife lied to you and cheated on you. I think Affair is even longer,sorry.

Tell the other wife. Both of you are in the same position and you are not the one to take the blame. Your wife and OM caused all of this and hurt two Famillys.

Proceed with your Divorce and dont move out of your House. Dont listen to her lies anymore. She cheated,she love other man so kick her out.

Stay strong my friend.


----------



## BobSimmons

billbird2111 said:


> But I'm going to take the high road Gus. Why take actions that will hurt two young children? And by telling his wife, that's exactly what I do, hurt two young children.


Hahaha of course..very magnanimous.


----------



## RWB

billbird2111 said:


> *But I'm going to take the high road *Gus. Why take actions that will hurt two young children? And by telling his wife, that's exactly what I do...


No BB2111, not the High Road, you're taking the Dirt Road. You have been living in the dark for 6 months. Would you not of welcomed a late night call from the OMW giving you the truth. Do the same for her.


----------



## tech-novelist

I wish I could say that I'm surprised to hear the bad news, but I'm not.

Sorry, man.


----------



## RideofmyLife

Not to mention, she may want to get herself tested for STDs


----------



## Thound

I wouldnt do anything until the divorce is finale. Wouldnt want any more alimony than necessary
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rubix Cubed

RWB said:


> No BB2111, not the High Road, you're taking the Dirt Road. You have been living in the dark for 6 months. Would you not of welcomed a late night call from the OMW giving you the truth. Do the same for her.


^This^ QFT.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Thound said:


> I wouldnt do anything until the divorce is finale. Wouldnt want any more alimony than necessary
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is why you hire a lawyer. I agree if you live in a specific state. Many have adopted imputed income so, a spouse can't just quit to get higher alimony and child support payments.


----------



## billbird2111

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This is why you hire a lawyer. I agree if you live in a specific state. Many have adopted imputed income so, a spouse can't just quit to get higher alimony and child support payments.


There are no children and she makes more money than I do. If there's any alimony, I'm getting it.

I still have not taken action to tell the wife anything. I've been told not to do it. It doesn't accomplish anything. It only serves to hurt her. She's going to find out at some point anyway and may have already found out. It would not help her to find out any more quickly than she is going to find out. Besides, like me, she strongly suspects something isn't right.

Men, take heed. If your wife asks you permission to take yoga classes, she is really asking your permission to meet with her lover and said yoga classes and have sex with said lover in the yoga facility shower room.

My two cents. It's now been one week since she left. Other than a couple of texts, I have not heard word boo from her. Not sure if I want too. She is avoiding me. I don't blame her. She destroyed a 14 year marriage. Worse yet, she's not only boning this other guy, she's hooked to Ecstasy.


----------



## MattMatt

billbird2111 said:


> There are no children and she makes more money than I do. If there's any alimony, I'm getting it.
> 
> I still have not taken action to tell the wife anything. I've been told not to do it. It doesn't accomplish anything. It only serves to hurt her. She's going to find out at some point anyway and may have already found out. It would not help her to find out any more quickly than she is going to find out. Besides, like me, she strongly suspects something isn't right.
> 
> Men, take heed. If your wife asks you permission to take yoga classes, she is really asking your permission to meet with her lover and said yoga classes and have sex with said lover in the yoga facility shower room.
> 
> My two cents. It's now been one week since she left. Other than a couple of texts, I have not heard word boo from her. Not sure if I want too. She is avoiding me. I don't blame her. She destroyed a 14 year marriage.* Worse yet, she's not only boning this other guy, she's hooked to Ecstasy*.


Then set the law on her.


----------



## billbird2111

MattMatt said:


> Then set the law on her.


This is California. Tell the cops that your wife is high on Ecstasy will result in a yawn and not much else. Bottom line? Without some serious intervention from members of her own family, nothing is going to happen.

And that's the problem. Her mother, father and brother, her rocks in this universe, are gone. They've all died within the past ten years. She's alone now.

I'm telling you this is not my wife. I never would have married a woman like this. The woman I married was a good, strong Catholic girl. Someone who routinely LECTURED me that "good Catholic girls don't **** around. We are not tarts and *****s."

The problem is that the death of her brother, who was three years younger than she was, which also meant losing all contact with her God children, sent her over a proverbial cliff. The woman who climbed back up is nothing like the lady that went over.

I have to bring myself to the fact that she's gone. The woman I married is gone. She's been replaced by someone who is very ugly. I am not attracted to her in the slightest. But, at the same time, I also loved her deeply. I so wanted to help her get through this.

But it's time to move on now. She may have moved out just seven days ago but I've been crying for the past six months. I knew I'd lost her. I knew I lost her a long time ago. It's just that I kept trying to get her attention. "Look at me! I'm standing on my head!" I did everything I could to distract her and bring her back. Problem was she was already gone.

I don't hate her. I don't know if I ever will. But I am very, very sad. Perhaps this is just Stage 1 of many stages still yet to come.


----------



## MattMatt

This is probably one of the saddest things I have read on TAM.

FWIW, you and your wife will be in my prayers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

billbird2111 said:


> Someone who routinely LECTURED me that "good Catholic girls don't **** around. We are not tarts and *****s."


Pfffft.

Are you that clueless?

The most repressed people - usually because of organized religions - are those who are most likely to stand by those 'rules' and, eventually, BUST FREEEEEEEEE from the stupid, repressive rules and do what they really always wanted to do.


----------



## billbird2111

turnera said:


> Pfffft.
> 
> Are you that clueless?
> 
> The most repressed people - usually because of organized religions - are those who are most likely to stand by those 'rules' and, eventually, BUST FREEEEEEEEE from the stupid, repressive rules and do what they really always wanted to do.


I've never been an overly religious guy. My wife always wanted me to convert to Catholicism but I've got religious family members in my background who served as Presbyterian ministers. I'm Irish, but for some reason I'm the only Irish guy that I know of who isn't Catholic. The family was Protestant and still is Protestant. And since I have a grandfather and a few others who served as ministers and were influential people in their lifetimes, I felt it important to stick with my Protestant upbringing.

But attend a Presbyterian church? What? Are you kidding? Ever been to a Presbyterian service? BORRRRINNG! I actually liked Catholic Mass better. Those Priests don't screw around. Mass is one hour and one hour only and you're OUT! That's important! More bar time is good.

There are a lot of people who dislike the Catholic church or all organized religion for the reasons that you state. And those feelings are fine. But I don't share them. I certainly don't blame the church or the Catholic religion for what my wife has done. That would be anger misdirected. No, I blame my wife. Religion did not do this to her. She did it to herself, and just ripped my heart out in the process.

I do want to thank everyone for their kind words. I'm telling you, all of you, it's helped a great deal to come back here and read the posts that everyone has left for me. I appreciate each and every one of them, even if you do not agree with my course of actions. It's good to hear opinions from a lot of different people. It helps to give me a strength that I did not have before.

Yeah, it's a sad story. But I'm going to get over this and come out stronger on the other side. You haven't heard the last from me yet.


----------



## Chaparral

Make no mistake about it, knowing your wife is in an affair with a married man with kids and you keep silent makes you as guilty as they are . I hope you get your balls back and do the right things. Is there anyone left in California that knows what that is.


----------



## BBF

Chaparral said:


> Make no mistake about it, knowing your wife is in an affair with a married man with kids and you keep silent makes you as guilty as they are . I hope you get your balls back and do the right things. Is there anyone left in California that knows what that is.


No. Not since I left.


----------



## MAJDEATH

OP, I recommend a different path for you. Contact the OM, let him know you know about the affair, and ask him to drop all contact with your W. If he doesn't, you next action is to contact his W and fill her in on what's been happening. It is up to him to make a choice. Because you can do nothing until she is out of the affair fog.

Good luck.


----------



## GusPolinski

billbird2111 said:


> There are no children and she makes more money than I do. If there's any alimony, I'm getting it.
> 
> *I still have not taken action to tell the wife anything. I've been told not to do it. It doesn't accomplish anything. It only serves to hurt her. She's going to find out at some point anyway and may have already found out. It would not help her to find out any more quickly than she is going to find out. Besides, like me, she strongly suspects something isn't right.*
> 
> Men, take heed. If your wife asks you permission to take yoga classes, she is really asking your permission to meet with her lover and said yoga classes and have sex with said lover in the yoga facility shower room.
> 
> My two cents. It's now been one week since she left. Other than a couple of texts, I have not heard word boo from her. Not sure if I want too. She is avoiding me. I don't blame her. She destroyed a 14 year marriage. Worse yet, she's not only boning this other guy, she's hooked to Ecstasy.


That poor woman.

She's ALREADY in pain.

She's in limbo right now, and you know first-hand what that's like.

He's lying to her and gaslighting her at every turn.

And you're helping him do it.

Anyone telling you not to expose is advocating cowardice, so stop listening to them and do the right thing.

Tell her the truth while she still has a chance to save her marriage and her family.

Please.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lisamaree

Please tell his wife. She deserves to know. If the A between your wife and the OM is serious (which it sounds like it is since your W left your marriage for him), he will pull the rug out from under her anyways eventually, by you telling her what is going on she may be able to make sure that doesn't happen divorcing him first, or it may help them R.

I'm sorry for what has happened to you.


----------



## Jasel

MAJDEATH said:


> OP, I recommend a different path for you. Contact the OM, let him know you know about the affair, and ask him to drop all contact with your W. If he doesn't, you next action is to contact his W and fill her in on what's been happening. It is up to him to make a choice. Because you can do nothing until she is out of the affair fog.
> 
> Good luck.


Then OM just runs to his wife to get in front of it and work the story out between him and OPs wife. If he's going to expose he shouldn't be giving anyone the heads up and he should have concrete proof when he does.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


----------



## MAJDEATH

Jasel said:


> Then OM just runs to his wife to get in front of it and work the story out between him and OPs wife. If he's going to expose he shouldn't be giving anyone the heads up and he should have concrete proof when he does.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


There is a full admission to the affair, that is all the proof OP needs. And what exactly is OM gonna "work out" with his wife? Either way she now knows. And by telling the OM, the OP has also just given him fair warning to end it, otherwise further "sanctions" will be necessary.

Either way, by following my advice the pressure is on the APs to decide if they are willing to continue their behavior and risk everything.


----------



## Roselyn

billbird2111 said:


> Did that. I've been seeing a marriage counselor for about the past six months. She wanted me to bring my wife for one of the sessions and I did just that. The counselor put it to her straight: Do you want this marriage to continue? Are you willing to make it work? Her answer was yes to both.
> 
> But -- I don't put a lot of stock in that. I also said the same thing to a marriage counselor when I was with my first wife. I told him the same thing that my wife said. Only later, after my wife had left the room, did I tell him the truth. The answer was "no" because there was someone else in the picture. That someone else is my current wife.
> 
> Perhaps this is just karma coming back to bite me in the keester. I put someone else through Hell. Karma has a way of paying you back, in spades.


You cheated on your previous marriage with this current wife of yours. Yes, the karma bus has come to visit you. You are no longer challenging for her. Now, this new man gives her attention and challenge. You know the answer.


----------



## GusPolinski

Roselyn said:


> You cheated on your previous marriage with this current wife of yours. Yes, the karma bus has come to visit you. You are no longer challenging for her. Now, this new man gives her attention and challenge. You know the answer.


Guess I missed all that.

Things are a bit clearer now.


----------



## Jasel

MAJDEATH said:


> There is a full admission to the affair, that is all the proof OP needs. And what exactly is OM gonna "work out" with his wife? Either way she now knows. And by telling the OM, the OP has also just given him fair warning to end it, otherwise further "sanctions" will be necessary.
> 
> Either way, by following my advice the pressure is on the APs to decide if they are willing to continue their behavior and risk everything.


If OP has proof himself why does he have to rely on the OM to expose himself? If he exposes with proof to the OBS, there's a better chance the AP isn't going to see it coming and will throw the WS under the bus to save his own skin and his marriage. And the AP sure as hell doesn't deserve fair warning. 

Cheaters give Oscar winning performances when it comes to lying and gas lighting. Not to mention plenty of WS are predisposed to not wanting to believe they're being cheated on. And there have been plenty of stories here of BS confronting the AP, threatening exposure, and then the AP turns around and paints the BS as some crazy abusive whack job whose marriage was already failing, spinning other lies, and softening the blow before the OBS can be spoken with. And whoever initiates the narrative, no matter how true or false, tends to set the tone of the fallout. At the very least OP exposes with the proof himself, it will make it harder for the AP to lie and gaslight his way out of.

AP will face far more pressure if the OBS confronts him after speaking with the BS, than if he has time to gather his thoughts and get his story and lies straight with the WS.

Granted if he threatens the AP with exposure it MIGHT get him to back off, but like I said there have been plenty of cases here where the BS threatens exposure and it blows up in their face because they tipped their hand to the AP or WS. If he exposes himself without letting on to the AP (and the WS) he greatly reduces the chance of that happening. Not to mention exposure should happen regardless of whether the AP backs off or not.


----------



## billbird2111

GusPolinski said:


> Guess I missed all that.
> 
> Things are a bit clearer now.


This is incorrect because Roselyn failed to read correctly. I met my current wife when I was still married, yes. But I never cheated on her.

The marriage was already falling apart when the new woman walked into the picture. Long story -- but never marry a lady who needs psychiatric medication to stay stable. I'll leave it at that.

Current wife would not get anywhere near a bedroom with me until the first marriage was over. She wouldn't make any promises either. She also moved to a new city.

So, there was no "affair." There was interest, but no promises made. After my divorce was final, I wound up moving a year later to the city she was in and at that point we started dating.

I sure wish some people would read posts.


----------



## billbird2111

So -- let's see. It's now been a little over two months since she left. She took the action of hiring a lawyer and serving me with divorce papers last weekend because I didn't call the mediator she wanted to use fast enough. So -- I called the mediator and she's backed off with the attorney. The first phone call with the mediator will take place tomorrow. Soon, I will learn what her "demands" are going to be, but she hinted previously that she wanted an equal split.

BUT -- now that her lover has been fired from his job (something she blames me for) -- perhaps her goals have changed. She may be trying to hurt me now. I don't know. I'll suppose I'll find out soon. I know she's moved to an apartment complex on the other side of town. She was forced to give the mediator another phone number when she confided that her cellphone has been acting a bit quirky lately. As soon as I got that number I tracked her down in ten minutes. I don't know the apartment number and I don't want to know. But I do know this puts her closer to the guy she's been cheating on me with. At first I thought that relationship had ended. Now I'm not so sure. Who knows? I've stopped caring to be brutally honest. I need to think about myself now.

I've pretty much written off all hope that she'll come back. I've accepted the fact that she's left. The shock of losing her is almost gone now, replaced with the realization that she's gone, she's not coming back and she wants a quick end to the marriage. The marriage counselor I've been seeing tells me this is typical with married women who cheat. I trust her because she's been doing this for decades now and has pretty much "seen it all." She strongly believes that, at some point, my wife is going to wise up and realize she's made a boneheaded decision and want to work on restoring the marriage. And she tells me in a lot of cases there is reconciliation. In some cases, the guy has already moved on. And in some cases, the divorce just happens. You just can't tell. So, we'll see. But it's going to take a lot of time from what she told me -- probably a year or maybe even more. She might even wind up marrying her lover, which will prove to be a tremendous mistake. His children will hate her. I know this from experience. She will be my "Clara," the woman my father left my mother for when I was three. I hated Clara. I saw Clara as the woman who broke up mommy and daddy. Children don't see in gray colors. They see only black and white. So, if that does happens, my soon to be ex is in for a big surprise because those kids are around eight or nine years old. They will not understand.

Based upon the advice I received here, I did try to call the other wife. I left a message. Told her my name. Told her my wife's name. I asked if we could talk. I left my phone number. She never called me back. She either doesn't want to talk -- or is a wife who is allowing her husband to step out and "sow some oats," in the hopes that he will not dump her or the children. Point being, I just don't know. But I did try to contact her.

Three of the four homes we owned are already up for sale. The people renting these places are in for a big shock. I'm in the fourth and last home -- the home we shared together. Staying there gets more depressing with every single day that passes. Some people have told me to keep the place for myself, but I can't do that. That was the home we shared together. We built that garden together. The roses bushes that adorn the backyard were planted in the memory of her mother. The raised planter beds we built for gardening purposes were built by me and her father -- using her father's design. Every spot in that home is a reminder of her and what I've lost. So -- that home goes bye-bye. The problem is it needs some upgrade work before we can put it on the market, and guess who gets stuck with that project? I'm only doing this because I will need the money from the sale of this home to purchase another place. This home is very unique and will bring a price of close to a half million once it's been upgraded. But it needs about $10K worth of work to get it to that "sale condition."

I work in a unique job where the position actually ends every six to eight years (it's politics and politicians have term limits). I've managed to transition to other offices for the past 18 years, but now the thought of moving onto a different city is starting to sound appealing to me. I'm free. There are no children. I have marketable skills and I do a good job at what I do. So -- I'm starting to look at positions in areas that are still close by -- but are actually in different cities. You know what they say about change, right? Change is scary. But change is almost always good for you in the long run.

I'll be honest. I still miss her a great deal. I don't know if I could ever take her back after what she's done, but we did have a nice life together (up until she started cheating on me). I will take a lot of happy memories from this. But also feel a sorrow over the way it turned out.

It helps to write about this. That's why I keep coming back to update what's going on. I'll still take some friendly advice, however. Just don't be like Roselyn and pass judgement since she failed to read a post correctly and surmised that this is karma because I cheated on my first wife with the second wife (which did not happen).


----------



## turnera

Good progress. Now, whatever happens will be because YOU want it to. That's always good. If you do, for some reason, decide to take her back, be safe and tell her you won't take her back for a full year, during which she will have to continue to pay her own way - no help from you. That way, if she just wanted the financial aspect back, she won't hang around and you'll dodge a bullet.

btw, I worked at NASA, did the whole rebid the contract (and get fewer benefits and more work, for less pay) every six years. It sucked.


----------



## Archangel2

@billbird2111 - Is she still doing Ecstasy?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things. A new beginning will be good.
Maybe you should try to contact the OMW again. This time in a way that the OM can't intercept and delete.


----------



## Thomas Quinn

Rubix Cubed said:


> Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things. A new beginning will be good.
> Maybe you should try to contact the OMW again. This time in a way that the OM can't intercept and delete.


As in person.
Read this now https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


----------



## MAJDEATH

Bill did you expose this to all parties involved? The main weapon against affairs is the light of the truth and public scorn. Sounds like OMs employer already discovered the truth and acted on it.


----------



## TDSC60

Glad you have accepted what is happening and ready to move on.

Get a lawyer if what is offered is not at least 50%.

Keep track of all expenses when updating the house you are living in including the hours you spend on doing it.


----------



## MattMatt

MAJDEATH said:


> Bill did you expose this to all parties involved? The main weapon against affairs is the light of the truth and public scorn. Sounds like OMs employer already discovered the truth and acted on it.


Unless the employer found out what a louse the OM Is for other reasons?

After all if he will cheat on his wife no telling what else he might get up to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## billbird2111

Thank you everyone for the kind words. I will try to answer some of the questions:

1. Is my wife still on drugs? Do I think she's still on drugs? Good question. I could never prove it. Never saw her take any. And other than once when she stopped off to pack some stuff up, I haven't seen her. The drug use suspicions were fueled by others. In other words, her friends would see her, be shocked by her appearance and demeanor, then message me the next day to ask: "Is she on drugs?" This would eventually get back to the wife, who in turn accused me of spreading rumors that she was using. I wasn't. But I did tell her that just about everyone she came into contact with would message me a day or two later to inquire about drug use. I'm not sure if she believed me or not, but that is the God's honest truth. At a family event we went to about six months before she left me, my uncles, aunts and cousins all thought she was loaded. But I wouldn't learn about these suspicions until months later, after she had left. Another friend, who came over for Thanksgiving last year, recently confided in me that it appeared my wife was "spoiling for a fight." Bottom line? I don't know. And I can't care anymore.

2. My wife blames me for her lover getting fired. Claims I called his place of employment and "demanded" to have him fired. Yeah, right. Like I have that kind of power (I don't). Fact is, they made no effort to hide anything. The two were appearing together at industry functions attended by people we knew for YEARS and knew we were married. These people talk for a living. Weeks after she left, I received a couple of tips to check out a Facebook page for a club group that serves the industry we are in together. This club hosts guest speakers every month and they hire a professional photographer to take photos of guest speakers and guests in attendance. Guess who was there? At more than one monthly function? More like six? There's probably about 20-25 photos of them together. In at least one of them, they are holding hands. Above a table where some people I know and I've worked with in the past were seated. I will admit, after she left I was shocked and distraught. I cried on any shoulder that was offered. Quite a few were. I can only surmise (guess) that the rumors got back to his place of employment. And what he did is a big no-no in our line of work. This is a cardinal rule that is not to be broken. So, yeah, when word got out, it probably cost him his job. The night she left she told me that "she admired his line work and was attracted to him for that." Well, now she can be attracted to his uber-small unemployment assistance checks. Provided they are still together. I don't know if they are. I don't stalk.

3. I tried once to contact this cheating piece of ****'s wife. I knew where she worked. She had a voicemail function at her place of employment. That's where I left my message. There is no way anyone could have erased that message, other than herself. I know she got it. In her line of work (medical), messages are important. So, I know she got the message I left. She just chose not to return it. I can only guess at why. Perhaps she wasn't ready to hear the truth? Perhaps she already knew, and is the type of wife that allows her husband to "sow his wild oats?" I don't know. I just know that I did try to contact her. She chose not to return my call. I am not going to push it any further than that. Just know that I did make the attempt.

4. Good advice about documenting everything -- including all expenses. I will do that.

5. Did you know that 75 percent of all marriages in the U.S. are filed by women? While some are filed for good reason, men are blind-sided by the vast majority of them. They never saw it coming. And they never get an explanation as to why, other than the tired lines of "I need a new start" or "I need to heal." I still don't sleep well at night. And when I do, the nightmares are just out of this world bad. I wake up sometimes terribly depressed that I am in bed alone and will be for the foreseeable future. I feel like a loser, when I know I am not. But these feelings are still hard to control. The first line of advice that I get from many is I need to learn how to love myself. For the longest time I didn't know what that meant. Now I understand. It's not the words, "I love myself." It's the actions that I take to demonstrate this love. So, next week I get the gray washed out of my hair. I've already lost a great deal of weight (getting dumped ends the appetite and all home cooking). Perhaps some new clothes are in my future? Time to get my teeth fixed? This is what it means to love thyself.

Take care everyone. Happy weekend to all. Minor league baseball game tonight with a friend. 25-cent beer night too. Thank God I'm not driving.


----------



## sapientia

Rubix Cubed said:


> A new beginning will be good.


This. Also take your time and stay single for a while once the dust settles. Last time, you jumped in too soon and for the wrong reasons. You sound like a man who has trouble being alone. Perhaps you will get a different result if you do something different next time. Good luck.


----------



## MattMatt

billbird2111 said:


> Thank you everyone for the kind words. I will try to answer some of the questions:
> 
> 1. Is my wife still on drugs? Do I think she's still on drugs? Good question. I could never prove it. Never saw her take any. And other than once when she stopped off to pack some stuff up, I haven't seen her. The drug use suspicions were fueled by others. In other words, her friends would see her, be shocked by her appearance and demeanor, then message me the next day to ask: "Is she on drugs?" This would eventually get back to the wife, who in turn accused me of spreading rumors that she was using. I wasn't. But I did tell her that just about everyone she came into contact with would message me a day or two later to inquire about drug use. I'm not sure if she believed me or not, but that is the God's honest truth. At a family event we went to about six months before she left me, my uncles, aunts and cousins all thought she was loaded. But I wouldn't learn about these suspicions until months later, after she had left. Another friend, who came over for Thanksgiving last year, recently confided in me that it appeared my wife was "spoiling for a fight." Bottom line? I don't know. And I can't care anymore.
> 
> 2. My wife blames me for her lover getting fired. Claims I called his place of employment and "demanded" to have him fired. Yeah, right. Like I have that kind of power (I don't). Fact is, they made no effort to hide anything. The two were appearing together at industry functions attended by people we knew for YEARS and knew we were married. These people talk for a living. Weeks after she left, I received a couple of tips to check out a Facebook page for a club group that serves the industry we are in together. This club hosts guest speakers every month and they hire a professional photographer to take photos of guest speakers and guests in attendance. Guess who was there? At more than one monthly function? More like six? There's probably about 20-25 photos of them together. In at least one of them, they are holding hands. Above a table where some people I know and I've worked with in the past were seated. I will admit, after she left I was shocked and distraught. I cried on any shoulder that was offered. Quite a few were. I can only surmise (guess) that the rumors got back to his place of employment. And what he did is a big no-no in our line of work. This is a cardinal rule that is not to be broken. So, yeah, when word got out, it probably cost him his job. The night she left she told me that "she admired his line work and was attracted to him for that." Well, now she can be attracted to his uber-small unemployment assistance checks. Provided they are still together. I don't know if they are. I don't stalk.
> 
> 3. I tried once to contact this cheating piece of ****'s wife. I knew where she worked. She had a voicemail function at her place of employment. That's where I left my message. There is no way anyone could have erased that message, other than herself. I know she got it. In her line of work (medical), messages are important. So, I know she got the message I left. She just chose not to return it. I can only guess at why. Perhaps she wasn't ready to hear the truth? Perhaps she already knew, and is the type of wife that allows her husband to "sow his wild oats?" I don't know. I just know that I did try to contact her. She chose not to return my call. I am not going to push it any further than that. Just know that I did make the attempt.
> 
> 4. Good advice about documenting everything -- including all expenses. I will do that.
> 
> 5. Did you know that 75 percent of all marriages in the U.S. are filed by women? While some are filed for good reason, men are blind-sided by the vast majority of them. They never saw it coming. And they never get an explanation as to why, other than the tired lines of "I need a new start" or "I need to heal." I still don't sleep well at night. And when I do, the nightmares are just out of this world bad. I wake up sometimes terribly depressed that I am in bed alone and will be for the foreseeable future. I feel like a loser, when I know I am not. But these feelings are still hard to control. The first line of advice that I get from many is I need to learn how to love myself. For the longest time I didn't know what that meant. Now I understand. It's not the words, "I love myself." It's the actions that I take to demonstrate this love. So, next week I get the gray washed out of my hair. I've already lost a great deal of weight (getting dumped ends the appetite and all home cooking). Perhaps some new clothes are in my future? Time to get my teeth fixed? This is what it means to love thyself.
> 
> Take care everyone. Happy weekend to all. Minor league baseball game tonight with a friend. 25-cent beer night too. Thank God I'm not driving.


If your friends and colleagues in the industry saw that Facebook Page you can be sure his bosses saw it.

Also, they would probably have seen the raw, unedited images shot by the professional photographer.

And under those circumstances -them sat together like teens at their prom- the employer would have had no choice but to let him go.

And who knows what else the arrogant so-and-so was getting up to in the workplace?


----------



## bandit.45

Has she shown any guilt or remorse at all?


----------



## billbird2111

bandit.45 said:


> Has she shown any guilt or remorse at all?


Absolutely none. She appears to have moved on. The marriage counselor I am seeing says this is normal for wives who cheat on husbands. The guilt comes later as does the desire to repair the marriage.

Keep in mind -- not all of them want to repair the marriage. But my counselor has been at this game for a very long time. She's seen this play out again and again and again. In the vast majority of cases she's dealt with, the cheating wife starts to feel guilt and does try to return.

However -- this process takes a year or more. She won't begin to miss me until next year -- provided she's one of those wives who does miss her ex-husband.

As for me, I'm a bit disturbed. I've seen some advice to keep it real and stay alone. But I find myself attracted to someone else now and I plan to meet this lady this week.


----------



## Archangel2

billbird2111 said:


> As for me, I'm a bit disturbed. I've seen some advice to keep it real and stay alone. But I find myself attracted to someone else now and I plan to meet this lady this week.


 @billbird2111 - I think the advice you've been given is to take it slow. to have time to heal from your marriage. You are still young, and there will be many deserving single women out there who would give anything to be in a relationship with an honorable man like you.


----------



## MattMatt

Be careful. Rebound relationships -especially in your situation- can get very messy, very quickly.


----------



## OnTheRocks

I started dating a couple weeks after I moved out, met someone I clicked with almost immediately, and we've been together almost 5 years now. If you have healthy self esteem, no need to "take it slow" IMO.


----------



## turnera

But that's the problem, isn't it? Most people going through traumatic situations, especially long term ones, probably will not have healthy self esteem right away.


----------



## OnTheRocks

I think if you truly have strong self esteem, it doesn't go away during traumatic events. It helps you through them.


----------



## turnera

Oh, I agree. But I can count on one hand the number of people I've met like that. FOO affects people in a lot of different ways. Needing to please a father, mother being unaffectionate, someone bullying you...

There's a guy on here you would NEVER doubt his strength and self love...but when it happened, when he found the affair, he plummeted.

And even when people say it's their line in the sand, they will NEVER stay, nearly all of them do.

You just never know.


----------



## billbird2111

turnera said:


> Oh, I agree. But I can count on one hand the number of people I've met like that. FOO affects people in a lot of different ways. Needing to please a father, mother being unaffectionate, someone bullying you...
> 
> There's a guy on here you would NEVER doubt his strength and self love...but when it happened, when he found the affair, he plummeted.
> 
> And even when people say it's their line in the sand, they will NEVER stay, nearly all of them do.
> 
> You just never know.


Sad to see you have been banned. My self-esteem has never been THAT strong. I'm a confident guy, yes, but not too full of myself. I have issues just like everyone else.

One thing I haven't been able to find yet is a rental that will take a dog and a cat that is not located in some gang-infested slum. I've been a homeowner for so long now that this is new to me. Plus, what cost $800 a month in 2002 now rents for $1400 a month and it's STILL IN A SLUM! Frustrating.

Divorce matters are progressing. She's not asking for anything because she's walking away with most of the money (she inherited it from her father who passed while we were married and she made sure NEVER to put my name on the inheritance account or mix the accounts together).

I continue to see a girl as a friend. We hug one another. That's about it. I like her, but I'm afraid I will hurt her. I'm not ready for this yet.


----------



## TaDor

Hey billbird2111

When I started dating, even on a dating website - I had my status state NSA / light dating - and in my profile, that I was looking for fun, nothing serious. I did meet a very nice woman - she was aware of rebound possibilities and that WE both were NOT looking for a serious relationship anyway. That way, I don't mislead someone - and feel guilty of a possible rebound and the other person doesn't get their feelings crushed with having a false expectation.


----------



## billbird2111

TaDor said:


> Hey billbird2111
> 
> When I started dating, even on a dating website - I had my status state NSA / light dating - and in my profile, that I was looking for fun, nothing serious. I did meet a very nice woman - she was aware of rebound possibilities and that WE both were NOT looking for a serious relationship anyway. That way, I don't mislead someone - and feel guilty of a possible rebound and the other person doesn't get their feelings crushed with having a false expectation.


That's a good idea. I've been on a few dates. Still can't quite enjoy them yet. But the therapist commands "DATE" and so I do just that.

The real key that I've healed will come when I no longer care what my soon-to-be ex-wife does or says. She continues to do things in an attempt to hurt me. The most latest example is carrying on some sort of relationship with my older brother, if you can believe that. My brother and I have never been terribly close. She knew this. Perhaps she's exploiting that lack of closeness between us? Not sure. Anyone else have a brother or sister like this?

At any rate, life goes on. Seems like I started this thread a zillion years ago. A different lifetime as a matter of fact.


----------



## turnera

billbird2111 said:


> That's a good idea. I've been on a few dates. Still can't quite enjoy them yet. But the therapist commands "DATE" and so I do just that.
> 
> The real key that I've healed *will come when I no longer care what my soon-to-be ex-wife does or says*. She continues to do things in an attempt to hurt me. The most latest example is carrying on some sort of relationship with my older brother, if you can believe that. My brother and I have never been terribly close. She knew this. Perhaps she's exploiting that lack of closeness between us? Not sure. Anyone else have a brother or sister like this?


You'll know you've moved on when you start feeling sorry for her.

And that's why we tell you it takes at least a year, maybe two, before you have clearly moved on in your head. Dating for no purpose but to build up your ego is fine. Dating to find a mate at this stage? HELL NO.


----------



## farsidejunky

Your brother? That is pretty pathetic on both of their parts.


----------



## MattMatt

billbird2111 said:


> That's a good idea. I've been on a few dates. Still can't quite enjoy them yet. But the therapist commands "DATE" and so I do just that.
> 
> The real key that I've healed will come when I no longer care what my soon-to-be ex-wife does or says. She continues to do things in an attempt to hurt me. The most latest example is carrying on some sort of relationship with my older brother, if you can believe that. My brother and I have never been terribly close. She knew this. Perhaps she's exploiting that lack of closeness between us? Not sure. Anyone else have a brother or sister like this?
> 
> At any rate, life goes on. Seems like I started this thread a zillion years ago. A different lifetime as a matter of fact.


That is either evil or the sign of a badly disordered mind.

"I have blown it up with my husband. His brother reminds me of him a little. Let's see how that goes." Might be her thinking. Such as her thinking is...


----------



## bandit.45

MattMatt said:


> That is either evil or the sign of a badly disordered mind.
> 
> "I have blown it up with my husband. His brother reminds me of him a little. Let's see how that goes." Might be her thinking. Such as her thinking is...


That actually could be it.


----------



## TaDor

billbird2111, good that you're being ordered to go dating.

I'd add this to the mix. Its not really my thing, but sure made me feel better. Go to stripper clubs for a while. Don't go broke. Sure, you're paying for a fantasy (don't we all? heheh) but for $100~200, you won't get actual sex - but you'll get some talk time, some touch and will hopefully take your mind off of things. Think of it like a HARD RESET.

I went to a stripclub 10 days after I threw wayward out of the apartment last April. I'll admit, it was harsh because it was so soon - mainly, I drank too much. I've only gotten that wasted about 5 times in my whole life. When I was dating a bit, I enjoyed them more than not.

You'll get there.


----------



## Chaparral

Not being very close with an older brother is one thing, him stabbing you in the back is another. I would talk to him and see what is going on. It would be likely the last time we spoke.

Good luck, brother.


----------



## lostmyreligion

Chaparral said:


> Not being very close with an older brother is one thing, him stabbing you in the back is another. I would talk to him and see what is going on. It would be likely the last time we spoke.
> 
> Good luck, brother.


^^^So much this. 

Family does the most fvcked up crap. Blood particularly inflicts, I think, the most heinous damage to the betrayed on these boards. 

If it turns out he's betrayed you as well, be thankful that you're proof that a predilection to deception wasn't a dominant genetic trait and move on. 

Genes do not morally bind you to forgiveness. 

They just are - nothing more.

Still, I can't imagine.

Again, good luck man.


----------



## billbird2111

lostmyreligion said:


> ^^^So much this.
> 
> Family does the most fvcked up crap. Blood particularly inflicts, I think, the most heinous damage to the betrayed on these boards.
> 
> If it turns out he's betrayed you as well, be thankful that you're proof that a predilection to deception wasn't a dominant genetic trait and move on.
> 
> Genes do not morally bind you to forgiveness.
> 
> They just are - nothing more.
> 
> Still, I can't imagine.
> 
> Again, good luck man.


I am no longer on speaking terms with either my brother or sister. Not sure what my brother was doing, other than I would get messages from both with the opening lines of: "I've been speaking to her on the phone," or "your brother tells me blah, blah, blah." I mean, had this happened to my brother, and she did to him what my wife did to me (cheated and left), I'd never speak to her again. About anything. Period. End of story. But that's the way I feel about it.

My sister, meanwhile, is Rush Limbaugh's poster child for the term of "Femi-Nazi." Yes -- they do exist. She wants me to start taking blame for the end of the marriage. That I somehow did something to convince my wife to start sleeping with another guy and then leave me. She simply will not accept the fact that when my wife's younger brother died last year (drank himself into the grave at age 43), she went off an emotional cliff and the woman to climbed back up simply was not the woman I married. Somehow, I am to blame or need to accept blame for what happened.

So, yeah, I won't be spending Christmas with either of them this year. Email communication is out as are phone calls. They can't even contact me on Facebook.

Now, add this to the mix. Not only did I lose my wife, my family, my homes (we had four), I also lost my job. All of this crammed into a six month period. I wasn't fired or let go. I work as personal staff for a politician. Politicians have term limits. When the term ends, not only is the politician out of a job, so is the staff. This is not the first time I've been through this. This is the fourth time. But it's the first time without the support of my wife. Sometimes these layoffs can last for weeks to months. Sometimes, people don't get another job. There is no guarantee.

I am depressed. Of that there is no doubt. I'm just wondering how some of you got through your first holiday season without your significant others. Because I could really use some tips right about now...


----------



## turnera

Sounds to me like a perfect time to go on an adventure. There are TONS of vacation adventures for singles to go on over the holidays - you're all there, single, meeting new people, and just having fun. Cruises come to mind.


----------



## bandit.45

Vegas. 

And outside of Vegas there is a particular little ranch where some very lovely and talented ladies can help you forget your lonliness for a while.


----------



## billbird2111

bandit.45 said:


> Vegas.
> 
> And outside of Vegas there is a particular little ranch where some very lovely and talented ladies can help you forget your lonliness for a while.


I appreciate both suggestions (cruise or Vegas). But, I am UNEMPLOYED. I have enough money to live on for about a year. When the other house sells, it will give me several years.

BUT -- I had always intended this cash to be "new home and new life" money. Not money to support me financially while I'm out of a job.

But, I don't have much choice in the matter at the moment. Today was a better day. I had lunch with a friend -- a really good gardening friend. Lunch was good. I got a bottle of peach brandy. Something to drown away my sorrows on Christmas Day...


----------



## harrybrown

Drinking will not help long term.


get some exercise and keep busy. Maybe a job at some store looking for help.

just for a short time.


Hope things go better for you soon.


----------



## BobSimmons

Agree with the above poster. 

Right now is probably the lowest of the low. Everything seems against you, you're getting down on yourself.

If you're going to be out of work in the short term then you're going to start getting into a routine of doing stuff, whatever routine you're starting to settle into make it positive, i.e working out, a hobby that will take up a big chunk of time and make you feel good about yourself, because negativity feeds into negativity and you might wind up in the cycle that is hard to get out of, especially with your ex and your siblings seeming to delight in poking you with sharp sticks.

Do right by yourself, just to royally p*ss them off!


----------



## billbird2111

BobSimmons said:


> Agree with the above poster.
> 
> Right now is probably the lowest of the low. Everything seems against you, you're getting down on yourself.
> 
> If you're going to be out of work in the short term then you're going to start getting into a routine of doing stuff, whatever routine you're starting to settle into make it positive, i.e working out, a hobby that will take up a big chunk of time and make you feel good about yourself, because negativity feeds into negativity and you might wind up in the cycle that is hard to get out of, especially with your ex and your siblings seeming to delight in poking you with sharp sticks.
> 
> Do right by yourself, just to royally p*ss them off!


The sun is shining here today. It's warm too. Warmer than it has been for a long time. When I first moved into this crappy little rental, the skies opened up and cried right along with me. It rained incessantly for months on end. 27 inches of rain so far in a year where the normal number is 20 or below. The snowpack in the Sierra Nevada is twice it's normal size. There was so much pressure on Northern California waterways, the second largest dam in California nearly collapsed this winter. Thank God it didn't.

I spent this cold, dark and rainy period packing up a 25-hundred square foot house that my wife and I once lived in. I had to do it all -- even her stuff. She simply would not come and get it. And since she has far, far more money than I do (an inheritance that I can't touch nor would I want to), she could just allow that house to stay empty for years. I couldn't afford that. So, in December, after the job ended, I went to a big box store, bought about 30 medium sized boxes, took them to the home we once shared and started packing.

By the time I was finished I had filled up 28 boxes for her, one for me and one left over. At least she came over to get the boxes. I nearly had to rent a storage facility. By January, the packing was complete and that's when the rehab started. I ripped out all the carpets stained with years of cat urine, sealed the floors to get rid of the stink and put in new distressed laminate flooring. Next came the paint job. Every single room. Mushroom Bisque on the walls, flat white on the ceiling. Semi gloss white on the trim. Then some cleaning to get rid of the crap left over from a major reconstruction job. Next came the small repairs. A door had to be replaced. New screens for the screen door. Reattach a downspout. Get rid of the trash in the backyard. Fix broken electrical switches and replace blown ballasts. It seemed like a million and one things. It took awhile and a lot of contractors, but this work is finally wrapping up now. You were talking about a project that I could throw myself into Bob? That was it.

If I finish when I expect, the house should be ready for the market next week. Just in time too, as prices are just shooting out of sight in California. This house could possibly sell for three times the amount we paid for it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

In the meantime, I've been passed over for a number of jobs that I was qualified for. I got the idea that my old employer really didn't want me back so I've expanded my search to anything, anywhere. But, some recent developments with the old employer are leading me back to where I started. I will find out soon.

It will be a year this May since she left. I don't mind telling you it's been the worst year of my life. But the sun is shining now. Things are starting to point up again.

I don't think I will find love again. I won't even look for it. I'm 53 years old. I have no desire to open myself up to this kind of hurt again.


----------



## GuyInColorado

Damn, my heart aches for you. Keep doing whatever makes you happy. You'll find love again, I guarantee it. You'll find it when you lease expect it. You sound like a great guy. Keep posting here.


----------



## billbird2111

GuyInColorado said:


> Damn, my heart aches for you. Keep doing whatever makes you happy. You'll find love again, I guarantee it. You'll find it when you lease expect it. You sound like a great guy. Keep posting here.


It was tough, but I had to detach myself from a lot of things. The formal dining table and hutch, for example. Her goal was to have a formal dining room, a formal dining table, china and a nice hutch to keep it in. She wanted to host all the family parties, which we did for years. But when she left, she took the china with her for her new place and left everything else behind. Didn't care for it. Didn't care what happened to any of the furniture that she longed to have.

So I had someone haul it all off to a consignment shop where it sits to this day. It was simply time to move forward and move on like she had done. Who cares if her dead parents had once sat at that table? She obviously didn't. So, off to a consignment shop it went. As did the sectional couch, which was rather lumpy from all the "activity" we shared on it. I kept a few things. The bed for example, but only because I have a bad back and we paid big $$$ for the perfect mattress for my back. I had to keep that, despite the memories.

But most of everything else just got hauled off to consignment. We're talking about four bedrooms and 2500 square feet of stuff here.

Know what sucks? I also kept one of two refrigerators. But it wouldn't fit in the new place. So, here's this nice side-by-side, sitting out in a garage because it won't fit in the house! And the house refrigerator is just an El Cheapo job, but at least it fits in the space designed for it!

I started gardening again. Damn that felt good. The old loves are coming back strong now.


----------



## Archangel2

billbird2111 said:


> ...I don't think I will find love again. I won't even look for it. I'm 53 years old. I have no desire to open myself up to this kind of hurt again.


 @billbird2111 - I hope you continue to do well, and that things will get better for you.

My wife and I witnessed something today which made me think of you and what you said above. We were at the post office and listened to a conversation between our local post lady and a customer she knew. After exchanging pleasantries, he asked her how she and her husband were doing. She told him, to his surprise, that she and her husband were divorced 2 years ago. She said that he "wanted his freedom", but he only moved to his mother's house. She said that she always thought that she and her husband "were a team." After the customer left, my wife and I could tell she was really upset and was trying to choke back tears while she was waiting on the next customer.

The point I wanted to make was that there are many good women in the 40 - 60 age group who, through no fault of their own, have either been "traded in" by their idiot husbands for a younger model, widowed or dumped by husbands seeking their "freedom." I think an honorable man like you would be in very high demand, assuming you invest your time in healing yourself and taking your second chapter slowly and deliberately.

I hope someday to read about your revival on this forum.


----------



## MattMatt

If you aren't already in therapy, it might be of benefit to you. 

I spent a week in San Francisco in October 2015 and returned home with a tan!


----------



## aine

billbird2111 said:


> The sun is shining here today. It's warm too. Warmer than it has been for a long time. When I first moved into this crappy little rental, the skies opened up and cried right along with me. It rained incessantly for months on end. 27 inches of rain so far in a year where the normal number is 20 or below. The snowpack in the Sierra Nevada is twice it's normal size. There was so much pressure on Northern California waterways, the second largest dam in California nearly collapsed this winter. Thank God it didn't.
> 
> I spent this cold, dark and rainy period packing up a 25-hundred square foot house that my wife and I once lived in. I had to do it all -- even her stuff. She simply would not come and get it. And since she has far, far more money than I do (an inheritance that I can't touch nor would I want to), she could just allow that house to stay empty for years. I couldn't afford that. So, in December, after the job ended, I went to a big box store, bought about 30 medium sized boxes, took them to the home we once shared and started packing.
> 
> By the time I was finished I had filled up 28 boxes for her, one for me and one left over. At least she came over to get the boxes. I nearly had to rent a storage facility. By January, the packing was complete and that's when the rehab started. I ripped out all the carpets stained with years of cat urine, sealed the floors to get rid of the stink and put in new distressed laminate flooring. Next came the paint job. Every single room. Mushroom Bisque on the walls, flat white on the ceiling. Semi gloss white on the trim. Then some cleaning to get rid of the crap left over from a major reconstruction job. Next came the small repairs. A door had to be replaced. New screens for the screen door. Reattach a downspout. Get rid of the trash in the backyard. Fix broken electrical switches and replace blown ballasts. It seemed like a million and one things. It took awhile and a lot of contractors, but this work is finally wrapping up now. You were talking about a project that I could throw myself into Bob? That was it.
> 
> If I finish when I expect, the house should be ready for the market next week. Just in time too, as prices are just shooting out of sight in California. This house could possibly sell for three times the amount we paid for it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
> 
> In the meantime, I've been passed over for a number of jobs that I was qualified for. I got the idea that my old employer really didn't want me back so I've expanded my search to anything, anywhere. But, some recent developments with the old employer are leading me back to where I started. I will find out soon.
> 
> It will be a year this May since she left. I don't mind telling you it's been the worst year of my life. But the sun is shining now. Things are starting to point up again.
> 
> I don't think I will find love again. I won't even look for it. I'm 53 years old. I have no desire to open myself up to this kind of hurt again.


Keep on doing what you are doing, one foot in front of the other, you will get there and this will all be a distant unpleasant memory. You are still young in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## billbird2111

MattMatt said:


> If you aren't already in therapy, it might be of benefit to you.
> 
> I spent a week in San Francisco in October 2015 and returned home with a tan!


I see a marriage and family therapist twice a month. She's been extraordinarily helpful. Can't say enough about her and the way she has helped me see things clearly. I see what happened now. I was powerless to stop what happened. I did give it the old college try. But it was doomed. Death changed her. And she met someone who became her mother and lover at the same time. She dresses like her. She acts like her. She lets her lover pick out all of her clothing for her and make important decisions regarding her life. Because this is what her mother and father did for her the entire time she was growing up. She was sheltered. She was protected. I did not marry her to make decisions for her, tell her what to wear, who to see, or run her life. I wanted a partner and nothing more. As long as her family was alive to direct her, the union worked. But, when they all died, she was cast adrift. And she fell into the arms of another man, and eventually, another woman.

I'm here today because it's been one year since she left. I forced the truth of the affair out of her on May 24th, 2016. The next day she packed up a few clothes and left. She never returned. I suppose the biggest betrayal was when she hired a lawyer. Her father had left her and her brother two homes in a fancy retirement community. Both were paid off. Rather than sell them (we didn't need the money), I volunteered to become the rental manager for both properties. I found and screened all the renters. I collected the rent money. I took care of any and all problems. The money I made for them went into an account that only she and her brother had access too. When her brother died, I continued with the property management duties. I made tens of thousands of dollars for her. You know what she did with that money? She hired a high priced lawyer to come after me. Made my life miserable. Keep in mind this was all inheritance money. And in the great State of California, inheritance money is not "split." The person who inherited everything, keeps the inheritance. Period. End of story. She kept everything. I was, and still am, quite poor.


----------



## billbird2111

MattMatt said:


> If you aren't already in therapy, it might be of benefit to you.
> 
> I spent a week in San Francisco in October 2015 and returned home with a tan!


I continue to look for work. I’ve had ten interviews in the past three weeks. I’ve already lost out on one job, but it wasn’t what I wanted anyway. I have one more interview next week. I sincerely hope one of these will pan out as it will mean that my personal nightmare will officially be over. Losing your wife, family, homes and job in a six month period is not a fate I would wish upon my own worst enemy. Yet – that is exactly what happened in 2016.

She stopped pursuing the divorce in November. No reason given as to why. I don’t push it. In fact, I don’t even talk to her anymore. No need to do so. Besides, she scares the Hell out of me now. Our homes, plus the two rentals, were sold. The last home we shared together fetched a price that surprised the heck out of me. It was a bit of good news, although I left my garden and fruit trees behind. I spent ten years turning that large backyard into our own, personal, farmer’s market. We grew everything. The artichokes are coming into season in that backyard now. But someone else will get to enjoy them, along with the grapes and peaches that ripen in June.

No matter. I have the seed money to buy again. But it’s dependent on finding my next job. Hopefully that will happen soon. Perhaps one day I will buy a home again. But I will never, EVER, make the mistake of buying with a woman. No woman will ever be allowed to take my home from me again. Should I find love again, which I doubt, she can contribute rent.

I’ve had the opportunity to get intimate with a couple of different ladies, but I passed. I wasn’t really attracted to them. They made it pretty clear that I could do what I wanted with them, but I’ve never been that type of a guy. Sex without feeling, to me at least, is unfulfilling. But one thing that has come back, and in a strong way, is my attraction to certain women. Unfortunately, they’ve all been married or taken. This includes one very, very attractive lady who turned her backyard into her own farmer’s market. She fed me mulberries straight from a tree. I nearly jumped her on the spot. But I was there to buy a fig tree, not have sex with her under a tree of ripened mulberries.

But I wouldn’t have minded it a bit. And I let her know that. And she let me know that her boyfriend probably would not like that. So, Cest La Vie.

Not a day goes by that I don’t think of my wife. But the sadness is really starting to fade now. I see promise ahead. I see good things ahead in my life. One step at a time, ya know?


----------



## SunCMars

billbird2111 said:


> I continue to look for work. I’ve had ten interviews in the past three weeks. I’ve already lost out on one job, but it wasn’t what I wanted anyway. I have one more interview next week. I sincerely hope one of these will pan out as it will mean that my personal nightmare will officially be over. Losing your wife, family, homes and job in a six month period is not a fate I would wish upon my own worst enemy. Yet – that is exactly what happened in 2016.
> 
> She stopped pursuing the divorce in November. No reason given as to why. I don’t push it. In fact, I don’t even talk to her anymore. No need to do so. Besides, she scares the Hell out of me now. Our homes, plus the two rentals, were sold. The last home we shared together fetched a price that surprised the heck out of me. It was a bit of good news, although I left my garden and fruit trees behind. I spent ten years turning that large backyard into our own, personal, farmer’s market. We grew everything. The artichokes are coming into season in that backyard now. But someone else will get to enjoy them, along with the grapes and peaches that ripen in June.
> 
> No matter. I have the seed money to buy again. But it’s dependent on finding my next job. Hopefully that will happen soon. Perhaps one day I will buy a home again. But I will never, EVER, make the mistake of buying with a woman. No woman will ever be allowed to take my home from me again. Should I find love again, which I doubt, she can contribute rent.
> 
> I’ve had the opportunity to get intimate with a couple of different ladies, but I passed. I wasn’t really attracted to them. They made it pretty clear that I could do what I wanted with them, but I’ve never been that type of a guy. Sex without feeling, to me at least, is unfulfilling. But one thing that has come back, and in a strong way, is my attraction to certain women. Unfortunately, they’ve all been married or taken. This includes one very, very attractive lady who turned her backyard into her own farmer’s market. She fed me mulberries straight from a tree. I nearly jumped her on the spot. But I was there to buy a fig tree, not have sex with her under a tree of ripened mulberries.
> 
> But I wouldn’t have minded it a bit. And I let her know that. And she let me know that her boyfriend probably would not like that. So, Cest La Vie.
> 
> Not a day goes by that I don’t think of my wife. But the sadness is really starting to fade now. I see promise ahead. I see good things ahead in my life. One step at a time, ya know?


What can I write that is worth more than a quick glance?

You were raised up high in life and dropped on your head, in an instant. Over a ~one year period.

I suspect [via arcane methods and experience] that this too shall pass. Whatever evil transit that decimated your seventh and tenth house will eventually weaken and pass.

The suddenness of it points to Uranus and maybe Saturn adding financial discord and pain.

*This too shall pass*...slowly I suspect. Outer planets move slowly. Beware open enemies and partnerships. Do not give any government official cause to come after you.

New things, and new doors will open. Carefully look before you enter.

Just sayin'


----------



## turnera

Are you volunteering anywhere? It will be good for a couple of reasons. First, helping someone else really does make you feel good, give you a sense of worth. Second, it looks amazing on resumes.


----------



## billbird2111

It's the first day of fall. Been awhile since I posted. Some things have happened. Some haven't.

The good news? I found my job. Perfect job for me. I mean it's right down my alley. In fact, I can't believe they're paying me to do this. And, paying me handsomely.

I'm still separated. The cheating wife called a halt to divorce proceedings last November and never resumed. I don't ask why. I don't even talk to her. Why? What would that accomplish? Last I heard, she's living with some woman. Fine by me. I hope she's happy. But I know she's not.

I've dated a couple of times, but my heart really hasn't been into it. One day, soon I hope, I'll know because she (whomever she is) will sit down next to me. I won't notice her at first. I never have. But eventually she will grow on me like a bad rash.

I am lonely. That much is for sure. My life is all about work, work and work, in that order. I only go home to have a few shots of Fireball and fall asleep on the couch with the TV on. At 5:30 AM the alarm goes off and it's the start of another day. It's a routine. A nice routine. At least I get out of the house. I share an office with an employee that I hired. She's a great person. All of 24 years old. Just married. Smart as a whip. 

I have given up all hope of reconciling. My brother continues to talk with her like nothing ever happened. Terrible thing for a brother to do, don't you think? I don't talk to him anymore. He made a choice. He's going to live with that choice. She's supposedly going to write out a check for 30 K for rental houses that I managed on her behalf during our marriage. But that's really a fat chance, in my opinion. I'll never see that money. I'm certainly not counting on it. Besides, I earned enough from the home we once shared together. I have a nice down payment for a new home, should that day ever come. I know there will come a day when she will come crawling back to me. Nobody ever loved her unconditionally the way I did. Nobody ever will. But she will find a closed door when she finally figures out what she's lost. She made her decision. Now she'll have to live with it.

You know, it's funny when you think about it. I have talked with many older women, single and in their sixties, who pulled the same crap that my wife did when they were in their 40's. They go through some drama, cheat on their husbands and then file for divorce. They think that life will be better for them somehow. But it's not. It never was. All of these ladies now regret terribly what they did. They know they will spend the rest of their lives alone and will die alone. It's funny that with each and every woman, the men they dumped all found love again and re-married.

I survived the worst year of my life. 2017 has been amazing compared to last year. I wonder what 2018 and beyond will bring.


----------



## farsidejunky

What are you doing to be social with other people, especially other men?


----------



## billbird2111

farsidejunky said:


> What are you doing to be social with other people, especially other men?


Hang out at bars, mostly. Haven't really done a whole lot to be honest. I work 60-70 hour weeks. Not a whole lot of time for social activity. I suppose I probably should do something. Perhaps find something interesting to do.


----------



## farsidejunky

You need a hobby.

Bonus points if that hobby includes physical activity.


----------



## Archangel2

billbird2111 said:


> ...
> I've dated a couple of times, but my heart really hasn't been into it. One day, soon I hope, I'll know because she (whomever she is) will sit down next to me. I won't notice her at first. I never have. But eventually she will grow on me like a bad rash.
> 
> ...You know, it's funny when you think about it. I have talked with many older women, single and in their sixties, who pulled the same crap that my wife did when they were in their 40's. They go through some drama, cheat on their husbands and then file for divorce. They think that life will be better for them somehow. But it's not. It never was. All of these ladies now regret terribly what they did. They know they will spend the rest of their lives alone and will die alone. It's funny that with each and every woman, the men they dumped all found love again and re-married.
> 
> I survived the worst year of my life. 2017 has been amazing compared to last year. I wonder what 2018 and beyond will bring.


 @billbird2111 - For all the women who cheated, there are just as many if not more who were dumped by their idiot husbands (I hope you can reread my previous post). I have not given up on you. As I said before, I hope to read about your total revival.


----------



## Marc878

Push the D and get on with your life. You're just allowing yourself to be stuck in limbo.

Why?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@billbird2111

How are things going for you? I hope you're doing well.


----------



## billbird2111

Not well, unfortunately. Back to the same old routine.

But I did quit drinking. That's a plus. However, I'm unemployed AGAIN. Long story. That "new job" and "new start" turned out to be nothing more than an eight month mirage. I was brought in as an outsider to do some "dirty work." Once that job was done (getting rid of a problem employee), the clock started ticking on my dismissal. These people had no intention of allowing me to be the long-term answer to the agency I had chosen.

I had another job offer that I turned down when I took the position I was released from. I wish I would have taken that, although I've since learned that I probably would have been released from that job as well.

By the way, if you want to know the reason for my dismissal, it was: "we just don't think you're a good fit for the job." No elaboration other than that. No feedback, other than "you're doing a good job for us," right up until the day I was told "you're not a good fit."

It was an orchestrated move. My replacement had been hired months earlier.


----------



## turnera

BTDT. It really sucks when you choose something over something else and you're the only one left holding the bag.

What's life like, other than work?


----------

