# Should I Stay or Should I Go?



## rochester71 (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm so glad I've stumbled onto this web site. I'm floored by the support users freely give one another, which gives me the courage to say my story and ask for advice, because, right now, I feel lost about which direction my marriage will take.

I apologize in advance if this sounds like it's a stranger just rambling, or if it's all over the place.

I'm 40, male, married almost 10 years, been with my wife for almost 14 years. We have a 5 year old daughter. Both my wife and I are white-collar professionals who both make very good money, and we live somewhat comfortably.

When we first met, in New York City, it was a whirlwind romance, and we were madly in love and in lust for one another. We moved in together 4 months later, and while we sometimes struggled, we were in it for the long haul. She was aware of my issues - selfishness, quick to anger, easily frustrated - and i was of hers - low self-esteem, weight/body image issues, depression/mental issues (history of manic depression in her family) - so it was important that those issues were out in the open. We loved and partied and did things couples did when they live together, but we fought as well. As I mentioned, I was quick to get angry about little things, and she would be easily hurt over the smallest provocation. But life in NYC became stressful, and I pushed for a relocation, to North Carolina, around November 2000. And that's when things went downhill, slowly. 

We struggled to adapt to our new surroundings. She was unemployed for a while, and we had problems making ends meet, even with the lower cost of living. Worse yet was I was changing. She said I was no longer the man she remembered back in NYC, one that was confident and take-charge; instead, I was constantly agitated, and I lashed out at her. She was also getting angrier, at not being able to find work and feeling lonely and useless. Instead of recognizing this, I simply ignored her, and found ways to escape. Those "ways" included internet Porn and chat rooms. Eventually, she found out, and was devastated. She was ready to walk out the door. I begged her to stay and promised to change my ways.

Sadly, I hadn't. As things grew more and more stressful in our lives - at one point, we were homeless and living with her parents, with whom i have a very difficult relationship with, and I was constantly in and out of work - I felt the need to "escape." And every time, she'd find out that I was back online surfing porn, and ignoring the fact that while we're both very sexual, she found porn degrading and it damaged her self-esteem. Each time she threatened to leave, and each time i begged her to stay. This continued until this past November 2011, when she really did walk out the door, and I chased her back. 

My wife was constantly suspicious of me, and often times worried loudly that I would cheat on her. She also did not like me spending a lot of time on social networking sites, like Facebook. I made a lot of friends, especially women friends. She disliked this, and made mention of it frequently, but, again, I ignored her pleas.

Fast forward to this past February 2012, and a platonic friendship with another woman online became very serious, and I fell in love with this other woman. I began spending more time online with her, talking and texting to her constantly. Of course, my wife found out, and she was devastated.

She should have left me right then and there, but she hasn't. We went to MC, and i should point out that was my recommendation, but the counselor was not to our liking - my wife and I often times fought viciously during those sessions, and we felt as if the counselor was constantly goading us. In the meantime, my wife and i are seeking individual counseling; she's coping with the betrayal, not to mention the heartbreak and anger. She lashes out at me, and at times has threatened to even kill me and the other woman. I am struggling with the guilt and remorse, but also with the realization that the things I did to slowly break her self-esteem down were things that a husband should not do to his wife if she says he loves her. We've since found another MC that does seem to work, but has reinforced that both of us have the power to stay, and the power to leave, and there's nothing either of us can do to make either things happen to the other person.

Recently, I told my wife that while I love her, I am just not that in love with her anymore. The years have dampened my love for her. How exactly that happened is something I'm desperately trying to figure out. She did not take this news very well. Last week, she told me she had enough, and wanted a divorce, but what she really wants is for me to feel the same love for her that she feels for me. I can't for the life of me figure out how a wife can still be in love with a husband that's disrespected her, and betrayed her, like I have. 

Just this past weekend, we were in NYC, visiting. She was looking for some kind of love being rekindled. Honestly, I just didn't feel it. I enjoyed our time there, but i didn't feel the same for our marriage and our relationship like i once did. I mean, is it possible that I was really in "like" with her, and not ever really in love with her? Both my therapist and our marriage counselor have hinted towards that, and that knowledge has really spun me for a loop.

I do love her, and i care very deeply about her. Despite it all, our sex life is very good (we have sex about 3-5 times a week), and i do enjoy her company. I really want her to be happy. I just don't know, nor think, she'll ever really get the happiness she deserves from me. She doesn't want to separate - although she recently threatened to file for divorce - and she's holding out hope that somehow I'll come to my senses and fall back in love with her again. But I'm afraid that won't ever happen. My motivation now is what is best for our daughter; she knows things aren't right between her parents. I don't want to make the same mistake my parents made, the old "we're in it for the kids," even though they fought like rabid dogs in front of us all the time. 

Really, I'm lost right now. I feel horrible that I've put my wife through all this selfishness and disrespect, and i feel worse that somehow, despite all my horrible behavior, she tells me she doesn't want to live without me. I feel like an abusive husband that beats his wife, and yet she stays because she's afraid of being alone.

I really am lost right now. Please, any advice would be helpful. Again, my apologies for the length of this message.


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## LostOneForGood (Jun 4, 2012)

As a Husband who was recently told by his Wife That I'm Not In Love With You Anymore is devastating. I am desperately, trying to save this R, but she does not seem at all interested. I have my own opinions on the "In Love" thing. Most of that stems from the newness and having little to no stress in a new relationship, its fun, exciting, new, you cant wait for more! Then job stress, financial stress, kids, inlaws all takes it toll. This is where the true deep love supersedes anything else. My wife will not let me touch her and it has been that way for a month now. There was no abuse or infidelity,just normal stress and arguments, but this is where it has lead.
All I can say is the grass isnt always greener on the other side. You fell in love with her for a reason, remember what that was and build on that.


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## rochester71 (Jun 13, 2012)

LostOneForGood said:


> As a Husband who was recently told by his Wife That I'm Not In Love With You Anymore is devastating. I am desperately, trying to save this R, but she does not seem at all interested. I have my own opinions on the "In Love" thing. Most of that stems from the newness and having little to no stress in a new relationship, its fun, exciting, new, you cant wait for more! Then job stress, financial stress, kids, inlaws all takes it toll. This is where the true deep love supersedes anything else. My wife will not let me touch her and it has been that way for a month now. There was no abuse or infidelity,just normal stress and arguments, but this is where it has lead.
> All I can say is the grass isnt always greener on the other side. You fell in love with her for a reason, remember what that was and build on that.



Thanks for the feedback. Yes, the newness has worn off, and it wore off a long time ago. A lot has taken place, lots of which have added so much stress into our lives. I just want to run away from all this.

I'm trying to find some middle ground here. If she can live with a husband that doesn't love her the way he used to, but still does, and wants to have a relationship where we can do what's best for our daughter, then that may work. But i'm afraid what she wants is a complete emotional commitment that i don't think i can give her.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

From my experience you will change and realize what you really have again. You need to give your wife credit for sticking with you as she should.

You are reading from the playbook of the MLC. Click on my link about Mid Life Crisis. One of the classic lines is ILYBNILY. It is a fog that passes with time and then the reality that the grass is not any greenier returns.

If you truely love you child, then you will minimize the damage you are doing through this time in your life.


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

rochester71 said:


> I'm so glad I've stumbled onto this web site. I'm floored by the support users freely give one another, which gives me the courage to say my story and ask for advice, because, right now, I feel lost about which direction my marriage will take.
> 
> I apologize in advance if this sounds like it's a stranger just rambling, or if it's all over the place.
> 
> ...


You don't need MC === you need IC. The problem is with you and not your wife. Fix yourself and do everything posible before you destroy your marriage, wife, children and family.

The trouble to day is that when people say there vows -- and say better or worse -- some of them mean "until I get tired of you".

What has your wife done to you ? 

Don't be a coward and fight for your marriage -- you deserve that -- most importantly so does your wife and family.

Seek out an IC counselor today to get back on the right track.

Good luck !!


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## rochester71 (Jun 13, 2012)

jh52 said:


> You don't need MC === you need IC. The problem is with you and not your wife. Fix yourself and do everything posible before you destroy your marriage, wife, children and family.
> 
> The trouble to day is that when people say there vows -- and say better or worse -- some of them mean "until I get tired of you".
> 
> ...



I have been going to IC. My IC has made me come to realize that i have to fix myself, and that's made me come to terms with how i truly feel about my wife. Maybe i didn't love her as much as i'd once thought. Has it eroded? Yes. Why? I still don't know. Our MC has also brought this up with me: instead of, "I did things to hurt and betray you, and that's made me love you less," he suggested that "I loved you less, therefore I've done things to hurt and betray you."

My wife has not been without fault in our marriage. She is often emotionally manipulative, stating things like, "if you leave me, i would just die," then turning around and bringing up divorce - she's brought this up more times than i can count. She's smothered me, to the point where i have to constantly justify wanting to do the things i want to do outside of our marriage. I'm pursuing a writing career, which involves me wanting the time to write. Often times, that means staying up late or getting up early to write for at least an hour. On the surface, she says she's supportive, but she'd rather i focus my attention on more marital things. This isn't anything new. If I want my own time, just even an hour, she'll accuse me of neglecting her. Just recently, i made mention of wanting to pursue my MFA in Writing. I was hoping for support; what i got instead was, "how do you think we're going to pay for this, and where are you going to find the time?" 

Meanwhile, she has gone back to school, and i have made more than enough time and effort to give her what she needs to pursue her degree. I've even helped her with term papers (which she scored the highest in her class). I feel I just don't get the same support from her that i give her in these regards, and often times i just give up on wanting to pursue interests outside the marriage just so she doesn't get upset or have her feelings hurt.

We each want things to make our marriage work, but it boils down to differences that can't be reconciled. I've mentioned me wanting more time for myself, which she has shot down. I mentioned having a timetable for us to judge where we are in our relationship, and what we need to do to make things right -or decide it's just not working - and she's shot that down, too. In order for the marriage to work, i have to meet her demands, but she's not willing, or is just paying lip service, to meet mine. And that's been a giant source of frustration for me.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

rochester71 said:


> I'm trying to find some middle ground here. If she can live with a husband that doesn't love her the way he used to, but still does, and wants to have a relationship where we can do what's best for our daughter, then that may work. But i'm afraid what she wants is a complete emotional commitment that i don't think i can give her.


there is no middle ground, she does want complete emotional commitment again that is part of reconciliation, and if you cannot do that in my opinion it is best to leave now. If you cannot commit completely to fixing the marriage (you degraded her for years and then cheated, her responses now are the consequences of your actions)... you mentioned to in a later post that she wants you to do this, she wants you to do that, yes she does.... she wants to see from you if you are serious this time about being committed and making the marriage work and giving some to her... clearly you are not.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> *If she can live with a husband that doesn't love her the way he used to*, but still does, and wants to have a relationship where we can do what's best for our daughter, *then that may work*.


You two need to split up and MOVE ON! The quote above is horrible; it sounds as though you staying in the marriage would be SOME KIND OF FAVOR TO HER. I know you don't mean it that way, but, flowery language aside, that IS the bottom line!

Look, you've been using porn for YEARS. You have admitted to cheating on your wife via an Emotional Affair. You've admitted to being angry, lazy about the relationship, self-involved for YEARS. Your wife is also NOT WITHOUT FAULT. It sounds like you BOTH are ready to pull the plug on this marriage, but neither of you has the guts!

Your wife is afraid of being alone and, therefore, won't pull the plug. You have treated your wife like sh*t, and don't want to be perceived as even worse by divorcing HER, so you're hoping SHE'LL pull the plug and divorce YOU.

I would agree that YOU'VE been unhappy for YEARS and THAT is why you cheated and treated her badly. Hoping she'd be the one to get fed up and end things.

MAN UP and separate from your wife. Offer your wife the opportunity to file for divorce (if it would give her some measure of control over the situation) and if she doesn't, then YOU FILE. Your daughter deserves to see what a sound, healthy marriage looks like so she will come to expect the same for herself. She won't find it with a dad who's checked out and cheating emotionally nor with a mom who's scared and manipulative. Give all 3 of you a chance to have a better, happier life. Just because you and your wife and child no longer live in the same house does NOT mean you cannot be a fully-involved, loving, attentive dad. So, DO IT. Get out and improve EVERYBODY'S life.

And no SERIOUS dating, committments, etc. until YOU have had at least a year of IC to figure out what all of YOUR problems are...lest you revisit this marriage again in 10 more years (same problems, new wife.)

Good luck!


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

You cheated and you broke her. Own it. Make amends. Dump your sleazy tramps and commit. If you can't, then leave the marriage so your wife can find someone who loves her enough to care.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

What's so ironic is that the more your wife tries to cling to you, cling to this marriage and reignite _your_ romantic feelings for _her_...the more she'll drive "that interest" away.

A sense of desperation kills attraction and desire...and it seems as if your wife is pretty desperate.

That's why you can love her platonically...the way we love our children, friends and family...but not with romantic desire.

You may not even be aware of this at a conscious level...but it operates under the surface in all of us.

It's infuriatingly non-nonsensical. It isn't fair or good or noble. But it's an inviolable law of human attraction.

Anyway...I'm sorry for your situation...and particularly for your wife...the very best thing she could do to help salvage your romantic feelings for her is stop being desperate for them. 

I wish she had a girlfriend to tell her that...


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