# I feel Alienated



## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

I have been married 17yrs and recently my wife has devoted her time to her cell phone. She has private conversations till 2am and is very distant with me. For the past 4 years, I have isolated myself in my room engulfed with the tv and computer. I have lost sight of what was going on around me. Now we had a big fight and I said some things I shouldn't have said and now regret. I can't erase the words from her mind and make her forgive me. I love my wife and want to save my marriage. I am not sure what to do. What actions can I take? Is there anyone else that has gone through this situation. Was this a mid-life crisis for me? My eyes are wide open to our situation and I am doing whatever I can to try to vie for her attention. Nothing seems to work. Help me please.......


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

There are many issues in your small thread that you need to address. Who is she talking with private until two am? 
And what did you say to her that would be unforgivable?
Are the first questions that come to mind. 
I think you need to put a few more details into your post to be understood and get advise. I bet you both have checked out and that there is much more to this. 
2am........I would say cheating is a cause of cell phone attached to head until two am.


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

I am not sure who she is talking too. When that happened, I decided to comsume large quantities of alcohol. I am not a drinker at all, I just wanted it to ease the emotional pain I was in. I know I had told her to get out of the house the rest I'm not sure of. She told me I might have been flirting at the bar and I said the woman working the bar was cute. I don't remember this, but I am sure as I am alive, that I would never have done anything inappropriate. I love my wife. She is always on my mind.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

tmiller632019 said:


> I am not sure who she is talking too. When that happened, I decided to comsume large quantities of alcohol. I am not a drinker at all, I just wanted it to ease the emotional pain I was in. I know I had told her to get out of the house the rest I'm not sure of. She told me I might have been flirting at the bar and *I said the woman working the bar was cute*. I don't remember this, but I am sure as I am alive, that I would never have done anything inappropriate. I love my wife. She is always on my mind.


Maybe you could have said it for spite.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

huge red flags, your wife is likely having an EA or a PA

read the newbie link in my signature

you need to investigate who she is chatting with, what kind of phone is it and do you have access to the records?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

AR is right - private phone conversations are not ok. You need to find out who she's talking to. While you may have been emotionally removed from the marriage for the past 4 years that is not justification for her looking outside of your marriage. While your post is not enough for me to say "she's cheating" it's more than enough for me to say - reengage in your marriage and find out who she's talking to. Hope and pray it's just a female friend. If it's not you've got a huge problem - come back before you react and let those here who've been through it advise you on how to proceed.


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

I can't check her phone records. She has blocked my access. She says it's just friends she is talking to and talking about our relationship. I have never felt such emotional pain, I am at a loss. I know in my heart that I love her. I also know that I can't live without her. The things I said to her were in anger and for spite. I didn't mean it, I just wanted her to feel a little of the hurt I was feeling. I am alone in all this. I have no one to talk to, that is why I looked for this forum. I tried talking to a few people and they spoke out of turn to other people, which got back to my wife and made things worse. I am ready for the end. The pain is daily and constant.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah, you need to find out who she's talking to. Have you asked her? What did she say? Chances are she'll say it's none of your business, she'll say you have no reason to ask, you're making it seem like you don't trust her, it's no one/nothing, then she'll delete the call history. If you ask her not to delete stuff but to show you instead, she'll get defensive about it and try to turn the tables and make you look like the bad guy.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

tmiller632019 said:


> She has blocked my access.


Huge red flag. I'm sorry.

Get angry. Don't let her be in charge - you need to take charge. Channel your anger into finding out for sure who she's talking to, not at her. Yet.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

what kind of phone?


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

Att sony smartphone. She says she is talking to friends and family about our relationship and doesn't want me to listen because she doesn't want me to hear things that might hurt me or give me false hope. I believe her and would give her the time and space to talk privately on her phone. But when she is done, she doesn't have time for me. All I want to do is talk. In the past all we did was fight. Recently I started to talk to her about my feelings and being open and honest with her. The talks seem to help me and I believe we should have done that to begin with. She is a very strong woman and I know she could forgive me and give it a chance to work. I am not sure she wants to. Is there anyway I can change that?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

need a model name for the phone, google the name and retrieve texts and see what pops up


you know her reasons for being on the phone are complete and utter BS, if she is spending so much time asking for advice on the relationship then why isn't she talking to you about anything to improve it?

I would get a VAR and hide it near where she is talking


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

major depression/crying bouts/breakdowns that come from little triggers? Yes
rapid weight loss/loss of appetite (some may overeat and gain weight)? Yes
lack of sleep/insomnia/nightmares (some may sleep too much and lose lack of desire to do anything)? Yes to all three.
possible bouts of nausea/diarrhea? Nausea, yes
waves of anxiety/panic attacks? Yes
possible suicidal thoughts (if this happens immediately get medical help)? Yes, plenty
lots of fantasizing of either violent events of your husband or OW or both or revenge tactics? No
lack of ability to concentrate or focus (be very careful while driving, I almost got into a big accident the day after dday)? Yes
forgetting appointments or events? Yes
physical shaking is possible as well? Yes, daily with my thoughts
immune system getting suppressed and picking up nasty cold or flu
? Not sure yet


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

that's the doctor thread, I meant the welcome newbie thread


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

I really don't want to snoop. I trust her even after all this. I want to give her the time to find her way back to me. I only seek some sort of confirmation from her. I have changed the way I think about her and perceive her in a new light. I have taken her for granted for many years. She has been trying to let me back in by letting me take her out to dinner and to a comedy club. We spent mothers day as a family and it was one of the most enjoyable experiences I have had. I want more of that. It was just me, my wife, and our 3 wonderful children.


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

I've visited all your threads. Still wanting to finish part two of your story. My wife was also a virgin when we met. I have been her only partner this past 20yrs. I have had 3 partners to include her, her being the last of course.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

tmiller632019 said:


> I really don't want to snoop. I trust her even after all this. I want to give her the time to find her way back to me. I only seek some sort of confirmation from her. I have changed the way I think about her and perceive her in a new light. I have taken her for granted for many years. She has been trying to let me back in by letting me take her out to dinner and to a comedy club. We spent mothers day as a family and it was one of the most enjoyable experiences I have had. I want more of that. It was just me, my wife, and our 3 wonderful children.


Oh nooooo.....another one who doesn't want to snoop! tmiller, you have to snoop. In order to deal with this you have to find out what you're dealing with. Number one order of business is finding out WHO she's constantly talking to. Those of us reading this are 99 percent sure that it's not her girlfriends or family. Find out and don't confront her with the first piece of evidence you find. Gather your evidence quietly.


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

Before finding this forum, I post on another forum and only posted what she had done wrong. Not what caused it; me being isolated in my bedroom for 4 years. She caught a glimpse of what I was typing and took the whole thing out of context and really became enraged. I apologized, but apologies are just words if the person doesn't want to hear it. How can I show I am truly sorry and want to save this marriage?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

If she's involved in an affair, and it's ongoing, you have zero chance of saving your marriage. First, find out what's going on. Second, if there's an affair, you have to squash it. The folks here, especially in the "coping with infidelity" forum will tell you how to do that. After that, then you can deal with the other issues, including you being isolated in your room constantly. Change your focus NOW to fact-finding.


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

I am pretty sure it is not a physical affair. Probably an emotional affair. Someone telling her all the things she wants to hear. Promising her a new and better life. Probably bashing me in the process. She has friends that have been through a divorce and all of them have come from a spouse cheating on the other. I haven't cheated, the things I have done can be corrected. I just have to figure out a way to get her to change and stop listening to everyone else and just talk about things between us. I am her husband, she should be free and willing to talk about anything to me. I believe she is in the "fog". She might not realize it. Should I let her read the article on the affair fog? Would it help?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

KNOW THIS: If she is cheating that is 100% - ONE HUNDRED percent - on HER. The state of your marriage has nothing - NOTHING - to do with her choice - that's CHOICE - to cheat. You need to realize this and quit blaming yourself for her cheating. If she is. 

THEN you need to find out the extent of her betrayal.

Then you need to decide what you want to do - try to work on things or not.

Unless you know for sure what she's done, you don't have the basis you need to make future decisions about your relationship.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

tmiller632019 said:


> I am pretty sure it is not a physical affair. Probably an emotional affair. Someone telling her all the things she wants to hear. Promising her a new and better life. Probably bashing me in the process. She has friends that have been through a divorce and all of them have come from a spouse cheating on the other. I haven't cheated, the things I have done can be corrected. I just have to figure out a way to get her to change and stop listening to everyone else and just talk about things between us. I am her husband, she should be free and willing to talk about anything to me. I believe she is in the "fog". She might not realize it. Should I let her read the article on the affair fog? Would it help?


tmiller, don't show her this site, at least not now. If she's in the fog, reading about it won't accomplish anything. Only hard consequences will.

Even though you think it's probably not physical yet, you don't really have any idea about that. And while I'm sure there was plenty of talk about you with this guy, at this point, it's moved beyond that. Sure, the way you've been treating her helps her justify her actions, but at this point it's the excitement of being with someone new. It's the feel-good chemical dopamine that has a hold on her. It's now all about this guy now. 

So stop obsessing with the way you treated your wife in the past and start finding out what exactly is going on.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tmiller632019 said:


> Att sony smartphone. She says she is talking to friends and family about our relationship and doesn't want me to listen because she doesn't want me to hear things that might hurt me or give me false hope.


:rofl:

If you want to save your marriage,
(1) hire a PI to find out who she's cheating with. 
(2) Protect your finances
(3)Tell her you have proof she's cheating and ask her to stop.
(4) When she refuses, expose the affair with the proof your PI gets to her parents and siblings and friends and HIS family.
(5) Sit back and see what happens, but whatever you do, do NOT go to her and ask her to give him up for you. TELL her if she continues that you will not share your wife with another man and are going to file for separation and you will call her parents and ask them to come get her (but the kids stay with you at their home).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

btw, she is NOT talking to family and friends until 2am. They will not be bothered to stay up that late. The only person willing to do that is someone trying to get in her pants.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

It's perfectly natural for you to start looking at yourself and assigning blame to yourself. But I'll bet she wasn't perfect in your marriage either. And you chose not to cheat.

While it's always good to take an honest inventory of yourself, you come off in your posts as being sullen, whiney, "woe is me." That's not attractive to your wife. You need to become firm, confident, a guy who's willing to stand up for your marriage, and not tolerate another man in your marriage. 

Again for the umpteenth time, stop with the blame tmiller stuff, and find out what's going on. Phone records, texts, emails, VAR, all that stuff.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And read Not Just Friends before it's too late and you're divorced paying for her and OM to shack up.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

YOU feel alienated??? Sounds like she giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Sooo.. you rejected her and sat in your office with the computer and tv for 4 YEARS!! (that's a loooong time for the rejected spouse) You also were fighting alot. Then you top it off you got drunk and talked trash at her.....nice.

What a sh!tty marriage. 

What did your wife do to entertain herself while you sat in your office for all those years...before her phone love affair?

NOW that she has switched off (and is probably having an affair by the sounds of it) you suddently realise you love your wife and want to work on the marriage... 

Sounds like a case of "too little, too late".

Personally I think she is behaving badly and is probably doing something she shouldn't

There should be no blocking wives or husbands from phones or computers. Openess and honesty is the only way for a marriage to work. 100% transparancy is the term you'll see around these TAM boards.

You have a HUGE amount of work to do to save your marriage...if you can.


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

I understand what everyone is saying. I know it is my fault for the way she feels. I can't take that back. 4 yrs ago, I lost my job. It was very upsetting to me. We had bills and no money coming in. I fell into a depression and didn't want to deal with it all. I was scared. The economy tanked and I was looking for work. Getting rejected constantly only made things worse. I fell deeper into myself looking for ways to take my mind off of everything, to not think about the worries. I started playing games on my computer and watching tv.....a lot. It became another world for me and I lost track of what was going on around me. Sure my wife tried to help me get out of my slump. I think she should have slapped me to get my attention first. Maybe that would have snapped me out of it sooner. I realize now what has happened. I regret it and want to change. I have changed to better myself for my wife and kids. To keep changing though I need the moral support. To know I am doing a good job. If I'm not doing something right, I need to know about that too. She doesn't talk to me, she won't allow me to show my love and appreciation for her. She got home a little while ago and read all this and is now even more upset. I try not to hide anything from her, I told her I change and I am open and honest with her. I am on this forum because I want to make my marriage work and I am alone and have no one to talk to about the way I feel and what I am going through.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

tmiller632019 said:


> I know it is my fault for the way she feels.


No. How she feels is NOT your fault. Feelings are not anyone's fault, they just are. You are responsible for your ACTIONS, and your actions may affect her, but what she does with her feelings is all on her.

And WHY did you show this to her?!?!

You really need some IC. Get yourself OUT of this funk, then you can deal with your relationship. The fact SHE cheated and the fact your marriage sucked prior are TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE THINGS that need to be worked on.


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## tmiller632019 (May 15, 2012)

That's just it. She hasn't cheated. She says she has fallen out of love me me. She says she still loves me just "not in" love with me. I myself don't believe that. I believe there is alot of outside influence involved.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Dude, you don't KNOW if she's cheated or not. The ILYBNILWY speech is a recurring theme for cheaters. Do some reading around the CWI forum - you'll see.


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## amiller (May 15, 2012)

This is very nice... all the support, n opinions everyone is giving! And I know everyone can only base there opinions on what they been told! There is alot more to the story!!!! This is not an overnight thing, that has happen. And this is not the first time of this all happening! And this is not the first time, he's going to make these promises! It a cycle he does n goes thru!!! N yes this time it lasted almost 3weeks, a record!!! And if ot was outside influences, then it would have been over along tme ago! Even his family has been saying this!!! I HAVE held everything together the ENTIRE marriage!!!!! None of you have the slightest idea of everything n myself I have given!! I fell inlove at 15, have known no other! I have been the perfect mother n wife for twenty years!!! Waited on him hand n foot! To the point he didnt even know what drawer the silverware was in!!!! Then i went to work,n still came home n did everything!!!! N u really have no idea, everything!!!! It gets to a point that the fight is gone, n gotta do whats best for me n the kids!! Im tired!!!! N believe what u like, I have NEVER cheated!!!!!!!!!!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Then show him the phone records and who you've been talking to at 2am


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

amiller said:


> This is very nice... all the support, n opinions everyone is giving! And I know everyone can only base there opinions on what they been told! There is alot more to the story!!!! This is not an overnight thing, that has happen. And this is not the first time of this all happening! And this is not the first time, he's going to make these promises! It a cycle he does n goes thru!!! N yes this time it lasted almost 3weeks, a record!!! And if ot was outside influences, then it would have been over along tme ago! Even his family has been saying this!!! I HAVE held everything together the ENTIRE marriage!!!!! None of you have the slightest idea of everything n myself I have given!! I fell inlove at 15, have known no other! I have been the perfect mother n wife for twenty years!!! Waited on him hand n foot! To the point he didnt even know what drawer the silverware was in!!!! Then i went to work,n still came home n did everything!!!! N u really have no idea, everything!!!! It gets to a point that the fight is gone, n gotta do whats best for me n the kids!! Im tired!!!! N believe what u like, I have NEVER cheated!!!!!!!!!!


I'm so sorry your hurt by what you read here and for what your going through. It must be very painful.
Yes we only (usually) ever get one side of a story and simply say how we see things (often from personal experience) and try to support the original poster.... it is so not personal.. I'm sure you know that.

The phone thing was HUGE red flag to many here who post here.. it's often one of the first signs of an affair.

I'd be very suspious of my H if he hid phone or FB or emails from me.

If you have nothing to hide them show your H your phone etc... and put this issue to bed.

It sounds like you have a lot to work on.
I wish you (both) the very best ...whatever happens.


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## amiller (May 15, 2012)

He has seen the fone records, n I have told him who I talk too! What is not said, is that I blocked the records after he seen them, n went mad and said he was going to call everyone n threaten them not to call my fone!! Everyone, girls, guys, straight, gay..... I support n pay for everything, I will not have my friends, coworkers talked n treated like ****! I'm sorry I did not get on here to defend myself, just to show there is more to any/most stories. I have been 100% honest on my feelings to him, as hard as it is!! But now that its hit him, he sees now what he had all along!!


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

amiller said:


> He has seen the fone records, n I have told him who I talk too! What is not said, is that I blocked the records after he seen them, n went mad and said he was going to call everyone n threaten them not to call my fone!! Everyone, girls, guys, straight, gay..... I support n pay for everything, I will not have my friends, coworkers talked n treated like ****! I'm sorry I did not get on here to defend myself, just to show there is more to any/most stories. I have been 100% honest on my feelings to him, as hard as it is!! But now that its hit him, he sees now what he had all along!!


I feel your anger and your frustration. I cannot imagine what it has been like for you while he's been 'in his office' all these years.

Yes all too often spouses don't realise how lucky they are until it's too late.

There is so much going on with you too...is there any chance you would go to counselling together. If only to learn how to end your marriage and cause as little heartache for all involved.
To give you a plan , a direction.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

ain't no way in hell, you're gonna convince me that you're talking to friends and family till 2am.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tmiller632019 said:


> That's just it. She hasn't cheated. She says she has fallen out of love me me. She says she still loves me just "not in" love with me. I myself don't believe that. I believe there is alot of outside influence involved.


 Have you ever researched the ILYBINILWY speech? Look it up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

67flh said:


> ain't no way in hell, you're gonna convince me that you're talking to friends and family till 2am.


amiller's story sounds a lot like mine... except my husband spent 10 years playing video games and ignoring EVERYTHING. He's not had a job in all that time either.

I have been the sole support of all of us to include him, his 2 children, my son and my self.

I have suffered a lot of insomnia all these years because of the stress, being lonely, etc. 

I have spent many a night talking to friends and family till 2am because I cannot sleep.


From my experience it's perfectly possible that amiller is talking to someone other than an EA/PA partner.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

amiller said:


> This is very nice... all the support, n opinions everyone is giving! And I know everyone can only base there opinions on what they been told! There is alot more to the story!!!! This is not an overnight thing, that has happen. And this is not the first time of this all happening! And this is not the first time, he's going to make these promises! It a cycle he does n goes thru!!! N yes this time it lasted almost 3weeks, a record!!! And if ot was outside influences, then it would have been over along tme ago! Even his family has been saying this!!! I HAVE held everything together the ENTIRE marriage!!!!! None of you have the slightest idea of everything n myself I have given!! I fell inlove at 15, have known no other! I have been the perfect mother n wife for twenty years!!! Waited on him hand n foot! To the point he didnt even know what drawer the silverware was in!!!! Then i went to work,n still came home n did everything!!!! N u really have no idea, everything!!!! It gets to a point that the fight is gone, n gotta do whats best for me n the kids!! Im tired!!!! N believe what u like, I have NEVER cheated!!!!!!!!!!


 Are you trying to say you are his wife?

Then do us a favor and come back and repeat what you said in complete sentences so I can understand what you are saying.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

turnera said:


> Are you trying to say you are his wife?
> 
> Then do us a favor and come back and repeat what you said in complete sentences so I can understand what you are saying.


Oh give her a break. She's clearly distraught and venting.

I managed to read and understand it all.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry, I refuse to deal with a professional forum like this and have to translate text-speak.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> Sorry, I refuse to deal with a professional forum like this and have to translate text-speak.


This is not a 'professional forum'. It's a forum of non-professionals helping each other.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It IS a professional forum in terms of having professional rules and regulations and expectations of adult-level expectations. 

If you want less than that, go to twitter.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

turnera said:


> Sorry, I refuse to deal with a professional forum like this and have to translate text-speak.


Professional??:scratchhead:

I'm a gardener... my degree is in Horticulture. Unless your a plant or a soil microbe I'm here in my amateur capacity.

What about you?

edited: Twitter? Really??

Have you no compassion for these people and remember they are real people.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What about me?

I am participating in a forum designed and set up by a group of professional businessmen who expect that people who come to their site will participate in ENGLISH, in distinguishable English as opposed to to text-speak.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The professionalism comes in in terms of how people are expected to particpate IN the forum.

I also work in several OTHER forums and each one of them does not allow people to participate in text-speak. There is NO REASON to speak in text-speak in a professional online forum; use your phone if you can't do better than that.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Like I said ...no compassion


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

waiwera said:


> Like I said ...no compassion


Really? Try posting at televisionwithoutpity. You can't even begin a post with "Uh..." without being banned as rude.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

2nd time this week where the husband gives only part of the info, wonder if it's the same guy since he deleted the other thread?


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