# Cheating with same sex. Would it make a difference to you?



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Mayhaps I have missed it, but haven't seen a thread on it.

I'm curious as I know a man's wife who cheated on him with another woman.

Long story short: he was deployed almost a year and his wife got pursued by a woman and they had a long-term affair. 

He eventually found out not long after getting back, and told her if she wanted to be with the other woman get her stuff and get out.

My wife and I knew all 3 of them through work, or casual acquaintance.

If it had been a man his wife had an affair with, knowing him, he wouldn't have given her the choice of, "if she wanted," so it obviously made a little bit of difference for him.

Myself: I would be pissed either way and feel just as wronged.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I would be pissed but not as pissed if it was Dave from the post office/another dude. Intellectually i realise the sex should not make a difference but viscerally, it does.
I would realise that I may have something her other lover does not have...Just find it difficult to be threatened by another woman. Plus you never know, it might open doors for a three some. Every cloud has a silver lining, as they say.
Isn’t it what happened to @Vinnydee? They lived happily ever after.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cheating is cheating, and as I would never be interested in a threesome and believe 100% in faithfulness, it would make no difference whether it was with a man or woman.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Not in the least.


----------



## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

sokillme said:


> Not in the least.



I had a friend that lost his wife due to her infidelity with another woman. I think there is a whole different set of psychological stuff going on there.


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> I would be pissed but not as pissed if it was Dave from the post office/another dude. Intellectually i realise the sex should not make a difference but viscerally, it does.
> I would realise that I may have something her other lover does not have...Just find it difficult to be threatened by another women. Plus you never know, it might open doors for a three some. Every cloud has a silver lining, as they say.
> Isn’t it what happened to @Vinnydee? They lived happily ever after.
> 
> ...


The other woman set out to seduce his wife. 

His wife was straight. 

I know for a fact the other woman set out to "turn" her as I overheard, and keep her to herself. 

There would have been No 3somes involving the other woman I can guarantee.

Of course after discovery, and her husband subsequently sending his wife packing the "couple" only lasted about 6-8 months.

Since she only seemed to be attracted to straight women she was soon off the "turn" another one.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

red oak said:


> His wife was straight.



I’m not sure that’s how it works...If I was straight (which I am), and I was persuaded by a hot guy into pleasing him, orally (which I haven’t been, though there is nothing wrong with it if I was), I would not be able to call myself straight afterwards, in all honesty and putting my hand on my left breast...
Maybe marginally bent, but not straight straight.

I can kind of imagine that she (his wife) was really lonely when her husband left and probably desperately needed some kind of company. And instead of the wife turning to Dave for affection, this voluptuous, blond lesbian walked into the wife’s room...and asked her, in a sexy voice, if she could borrow some scissors? And the rest is history (and probably against the rules...)
It happens. I have seen a ‘documentary’ about it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

attheend02 said:


> I had a friend that lost his wife due to her infidelity with another woman. I think there is a whole different set of psychological stuff going on there.


I could see this but I think you could also look at it like, how was I ever going compete I have a different set of parts and chalk it up to a completely unfair set of rules.

Besides cheating is cheating, it's the same unfairness and injustice.


----------



## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

sokillme said:


> I could see this but I think you could also look at it like, how was I ever going compete I have a different set of parts and chalk it up to a completely unfair set of rules.
> 
> Besides cheating is cheating, it's the same unfairness and injustice.


Agreed... Except the ego doesn't necessarily listen to logic.


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

red oak said:


> The other woman set out to seduce his wife.
> 
> *His wife was straight.
> *
> ...


No she wasn't. There is nothing a woman could do to "turn" me. Absolutely no desire to put my hands on a woman in a sexual way.


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

If my wife cheated on me with a dude, she’d be a POS adulterer.

If my wife cheated on me with a chick, she’d be a mentally ill POS adulterer.

So, I guess the answer is yes....who knew!


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

attheend02 said:


> Agreed... Except the ego doesn't necessarily listen to logic.


True. Still wisdom over ego is a good thing to strive for, in relationships and everything else though.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

OnTheFly said:


> If my wife cheated on me with a dude, she’d be a POS adulterer.
> 
> If my wife cheated on me with a chick, she’d be a mentally ill POS adulterer.
> 
> So, I guess the answer is yes....who knew!




???why mentally ill??? What’s wrong with some old fashioned woman on woman action?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Why mentally ill, as opposed to a bisexual adulterer? 



OnTheFly said:


> If my wife cheated on me with a dude, she’d be a POS adulterer.
> 
> If my wife cheated on me with a chick, she’d be a mentally ill POS adulterer.
> 
> So, I guess the answer is yes....who knew!


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For me, finding out my wife cheated with another woman wouldn't bother me much at all. There would be no sense that someone was "better" than me, just had different parts. I would have no problem with an open relationship that way - if it didn't interfere with our sex life (such as it is), ... even if I wasn't ever invited to join.....

I'm unusual in not being devastated if my wife cheated with another man either. I'd be unhappy - but not totally enraged.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> ???why mentally ill??? What’s wrong with some old fashioned woman on woman action?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its being unfaithful. Some people still actually value faithfulness.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Its being unfaithful. Some people still actually value faithfulness.



Well, in which case cheating with either sex should be akin to a ‘mental illness’. Yet for some reason, the poster only considers it a mental illness if it happens with same sex. I wasn’t sure why.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

uhtred said:


> For me, finding out my wife cheated with another woman wouldn't bother me much at all. There would be no sense that someone was "better" than me, just had different parts. I would have no problem with an open relationship that way - if it didn't interfere with our sex life (such as it is), ... even if I wasn't ever invited to join.....
> 
> I'm unusual in not being devastated if my wife cheated with another man either. I'd be unhappy - but not totally enraged.


Well in that case from a biological point of view, in the beginning of humanity the most likely scenario for you would have been: you a biological dead end.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Unfortunately for me, I am uniquely qualified to answer this question. 

My husband is gay. Never told me until I caught him trolling for anonymous hookups online. Then he confessed to many different encounters with men dating back to his teenage years. So I live with the knowledge that our entire intimate relationship was a lie. The conception of my children was a lie. I know some spouses who deal with this focus on the infidelity but to me, that’s incidental. He broke his vows...I don’t care about that, I don't even think about it, because to me what matters is that my entire marriage was a lie. He had no business making those vows in the first place. Every time we had sex he had to force himself. When I think about it I want to vomit. Every time an intimate memory pops into my head I search for the clues that I missed. I obsess about how I didn't see it. 

So for me, it makes a HUGE difference. I had a boyfriend cheat on me years ago. I was madly in love with him. It didn't feel like this, not by a long shot. And because I worked with him I had to watch him marry the woman he cheated on me with. Still, nothing like this. 

My husband has no idea how much he has damaged me. He crushed my soul and I honestly am not sure I'll ever come back from it all the way. I wonder if I'll ever be able to trust someone with my body ever again. 

I should probably get some therapy but I'm afraid if I start to really talk about it with someone in person, I'll start crying and never stop.


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

OnTheFly said:


> If my wife cheated on me with a chick, she’d be a mentally ill POS adulterer.


Mentally ill?!


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> I’m not sure that’s how it works...If I was straight (which I am), and I was persuaded by a hot guy into pleasing him, orally (which I haven’t been, though there is nothing wrong with it if I was), I would not be able to call myself straight afterwards, in all honesty and putting my hand on my left breast...
> Maybe marginally bent, but not straight straight.
> 
> I can kind of imagine that she (his wife) was really lonely when her husband left and probably desperately needed some kind of company. And instead of the wife turning to Dave for affection, this voluptuous, blond lesbian walked into the wife’s room...and asked her, in a sexy voice, if she could borrow some scissors? And the rest is history (and probably against the rules...)
> ...


Reason I used the word was when referring to being straight.

It took a few months before the other woman got in his wifes "pants." His wife said she wasn't bi, but the OW wouldn't take no for an answer. 
Then OW plays the needs a friend card, someone to talk to, if we go out as friends don't have to worry about the husband etc, (whole 9yds) 

I call what she did during the time leading up to it as 'grooming.'


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Interesting question. I agree that cheating is cheating is cheating...

I’ve been pondering on this one though to try to think through the side of it of would it _make me feel_ worse, better, or the same. 

So I thought...ok, he gets crazy drunk, and gets freaky with a guy. ONS, comes clean immediately and shows as much remorse as possible. 

I think it could possibly be worse, because I would know I could never be what he truly wanted, and there would be no point to even consider R.


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> OnTheFly said:
> 
> 
> > If my wife cheated on me with a chick, she’d be a mentally ill POS adulterer.
> ...


Yes, mentally ill.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Spicy said:


> Interesting question. I agree that cheating is cheating is cheating...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a ‘prejudice’ about it...or rather just a theory and sorry if it’s not PC but....

I think women are more likely to be ‘a little bit’ lesbian, on average, whether I don’t think there are many guys who are ‘a little bit’ gay. 

I think a guy with gay tendencies is typically more gay than straight, who, in his head, cannot reconcile the idea between a beautiful image in his head of man and woman and his bodily need to be attracted to a male instead. 

Societal taboos also play a big part. I don’t think there is (or has been?) any such taboos for women so they have not been conditioned to have to hide anything. I don’t think there is a woman who would be disgusted by the idea of for example going down on a very beautiful (and clean) woman whereas most straight guys probably would be disgusted by the idea of doing the same to a guy. The only person I would not be completely disgusted about going down on, would be an identical twin of mine (I think, I haven’t tried, to be fair). Does it make me a narcissist, in its purest form? 
I mean I already have to touch myself from time to time, might as well have the ability to do more (if I could). 

I dunno. For guys, I think the saying applies, once a gay, always a gay....Not so much for a woman. (Speaking in generalities).

So I don’t think it takes as much to ‘turn’ a ‘straight’ woman as it takes to turn a straight guy into a gay guy (who I think was probably gay all along).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

I think that cheating is cheating but I think psychologically it must do something more. It’s not that you weren’t good enough in their eyes it’s your whole sex that isn’t. I’m sure it does some extra damage to ones mental esteem.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

OnTheFly said:


> Yes, mentally ill.


Wow.:|


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> I have a ‘prejudice’ about it...or rather just a theory and sorry if it’s not PC but....
> 
> I think women are more likely to be ‘a little bit’ lesbian, on average, whether I don’t think there are many guys who are ‘a little bit’ gay.
> 
> ...


You said, 'I don’t think there is a woman who would be disgusted by the idea of for example going down on a very beautiful (and clean) woman whereas most straight guys probably would be disgusted by the idea of doing the same to a guy. 

You are kidding right??????:surprise:

You are so very wrong. I don't know a single woman who would want to do that with another woman. You seem to assume that because you would like to do that to a woman, everyone else would too, including the female sex. Incredible. Women in general want to have sex with a man only unless they are gay. 

How would it sound if I said this. 'I don't think there is a man who would be disgusted by the idea of going down on another man, whereas most women would probably be disgusted at the idea of doing that with another woman. 

Doesn't make sense does it. That's because its completely untrue as was your statement. 
:|

Oh and I don't see either as any more or less taboo than the other. Maybe you have been watching too much lesbian porn. Real life isn't like that.


----------



## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Just my 2 cents...i'm 100% straight guy but personally agree with the notion on sexuality and it being a spectrum. I also believe it's biologically driven (not always a choice). As such i celebrate and never judge. True connections are wonderful whatever they may be.

I've often wondered what commitment must be like for people who are truly bi. It must be really tough to hide that other side of a person and shut that impulse off. We're better as a society but there's no doubt the path of least resistance is man/woman pairing. I can definitely see how a curious person would be forced to choose...and how that itch might be insatiable to scratch. I can imagine they'd be more likely to slip since it's not just a one off experience but instead responding to something inside and a need to see that fulfilled.

That said a commitment is a commitment. And everyone is responsible for their own actions and repercussions. It starts with honest communication. But it's not as cut and dry as the typical "wife screwed the neighbor" type situation. There's detail in that gray color.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> You said, 'I don’t think there is a woman who would be disgusted by the idea of for example going down on a very beautiful (and clean) woman whereas most straight guys probably would be disgusted by the idea of doing the same to a guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I did say it was a theory...
It was actually my wife who SAID that when we were watching lesbian porn together once (that the thought of soapy women in the shower was a turn on and that she wouldn’t throw up if she went down on a clean beautiful woman...for her, that was quite a monumental admission...).

I have also once seen an interview and all the female porn stars (all ‘straight’ btw) said that they would much rather go down on a woman rather than a guy (or give oral to a woman than receive oral from a guy). So I didn’t pull it all out entirely out of my ass 

Me personally: I don’t really ever feel I want to go down on anyone else: all women probably look about the same or similar down there* and you can’t really tell who it is you are doing anyway from down under, so what’s the point?

*from photos, I have only ever seen my wife’s and mother’s vaginas up close in real life






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> Unfortunately for me, I am uniquely qualified to answer this question.
> 
> My husband is gay. Never told me until I caught him trolling for anonymous hookups online. Then he confessed to many different encounters with men dating back to his teenage years. So I live with the knowledge that our entire intimate relationship was a lie. The conception of my children was a lie. I know some spouses who deal with this focus on the infidelity but to me, that’s incidental. He broke his vows...I don’t care about that, I don't even think about it, because to me what matters is that my entire marriage was a lie. He had no business making those vows in the first place. Every time we had sex he had to force himself. When I think about it I want to vomit. Every time an intimate memory pops into my head I search for the clues that I missed. I obsess about how I didn't see it.
> 
> ...


Your addition to the thread shows the perspective, thoughts, emotions, subsequent turmoil well.

Thank you.

Hope you get the healing and closure you need.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For many reasons. I don't have and don't want kids, so I'm a dead end anyway. Besides, my eyesight is so bad that I probably wouldn't have survived. 

Fortunately we are not at the beginning of humanity, which sounds like it was pretty unpleasant. 



Rob_1 said:


> Well in that case from a biological point of view, in the beginning of humanity the most likely scenario for you would have been: you a biological dead end.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed- I've seen a number of studies that support this. No easy way to know if its social or somehow innate. My guess is social because I think there are societies where male bisexuality is much more common.





InMyPrime said:


> I have a ‘prejudice’ about it...or rather just a theory and sorry if it’s not PC but....
> 
> I think women are more likely to be ‘a little bit’ lesbian, on average, whether I don’t think there are many guys who are ‘a little bit’ gay.
> snip


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Cheating is cheating, and as I would never be interested in a threesome and believe 100% in faithfulness, it would make no difference whether it was with a man or woman.


Yep, betrayal is betrayal.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> Unfortunately for me, I am uniquely qualified to answer this question.
> 
> My husband is gay. Never told me until I caught him trolling for anonymous hookups online. Then he confessed to many different encounters with men dating back to his teenage years. So I live with the knowledge that our entire intimate relationship was a lie. The conception of my children was a lie. I know some spouses who deal with this focus on the infidelity but to me, that’s incidental. He broke his vows...I don’t care about that, I don't even think about it, because to me what matters is that my entire marriage was a lie. He had no business making those vows in the first place. Every time we had sex he had to force himself. When I think about it I want to vomit. Every time an intimate memory pops into my head I search for the clues that I missed. I obsess about how I didn't see it.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry. I felt like this for a long time. Now I realize HE was damaged, so damaged he married under false pretenses. ALL that agonizing I had done over what I could do better, what was wrong with me? I realized it was NEVER me.

That part was a relief.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> I'm so sorry. I felt like this for a long time. Now I realize HE was damaged, so damaged he married under false pretenses. ALL that agonizing I had done over what I could do better, what was wrong with me? I realized it was NEVER me.
> 
> That part was a relief.


Thank you. To be honest, I don't agonize over what I did wrong. I know I did nothing wrong. I married in good faith. I was completely honest about who I was and what I wanted from marriage and my husband. I did not hide my sexual past at all. I don't want to be overly dramatic, but I almost feel violated in a way. Because if I had known, I would never have dated him, much less had sex with him, or marry him. 

I've said many times to my sister and to him that it's totally unfair when our youngest throws all kinds of heat my way over the divorce when I did nothing wrong. He even agrees with me on this. 

What I do agonize over is how I didn't see it. I think over and over about different "clues" and why I didn't think more about them. But I came into our relationship with more experience, something I knew made him nervous. So when he had some troubles in the beginning, I attributed it to that. After a couple weeks, he was fine. He initiated all the time. He never acted like it was a chore for him. And if I initiated he always seemed quite pleased. He was never very adventurous, but many people aren't. And he was not a selfish lover at all, ever. 

So now, knowing he was faking it the whole time makes me sick to my stomach. He swears he never faked his attraction to me. He swears he's just curious about men, doesn't want a relationship with one and doesn't ever even want to kiss one. When I told him I wanted a divorce he told me I am his whole world.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> I have a ‘prejudice’ about it...or rather just a theory and sorry if it’s not PC but....
> 
> I think women are more likely to be ‘a little bit’ lesbian, on average, whether I don’t think there are many guys who are ‘a little bit’ gay.
> 
> ...


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I'm still undetermined if lesbians can really have sex. Sounds like mutual masturbation to me.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I would be pissed no matter who it was if my wife cheated. Doesn't matter man or woman. 

Sure I have fantasies, but I'll keep those as just that. I know neither of us would be able to actually go through with it all and not have it seriously mess up, if not completely destroy our relationship. 

Besides, my wife is strictly ****ly. There's nothing sexual about women to her. Which is understandable as I feel the same way about men.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

@InMyPrime, I went to an all girls' highschool, and was very close with my "sisters." We literally hung on each other, held hands, hugged all the time, shared the beds for slumber parties, etc., but as far as I knew, no one had anything sexual going on.

Personally, the very thought of anything sexual with a woman turns my stomach and makes me want to throw up!

When I'm watching a program where women start kissing, I fast forward, and I'm sure my face looks like I'm about to throw up. Same thing happens to me if the show has 2 men kissing. Homosexuality to me is not natural, and grosses me out. I'm not "afraid" of it, I'm repulsed by it.

Just typing this makes my stomach queezy and my gag reflex kick in.

While you wish all women were "just a little" homosexual, you are mistaken.

Oh, and to the original topic of the thread: If my husband cheated on me with a man, I would feel betrayed AND grossed out.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Interesting. But surely a big part of the problem might have been the misconception that sexual orientation is a choice? (Isn’t this misinformation spread by many church groups quite frequently? This is aside from the idea that homosexuality is a sin). 
If one is convinced that sexual orientation is a choice or a sin, then it is no wonder how this kind of thing comes about so frequently. Maybe the gay husbands just thought they could convince themselves to go against their biology. Had they been better/properly informed about this, they would have made different choices in the first place!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> Interesting. But surely a big part of the problem might have been the misconception that sexual orientation is a choice? (Isn’t this misinformation spread by many church groups quite frequently? This is aside from the idea that homosexuality is a sin).
> If one is convinced that sexual orientation is a choice or a sin, then it is no wonder how this kind of thing comes about so frequently. Maybe the gay husbands just thought they could convince themselves to go against their biology. Had they been better/properly informed about this, they would have made different choices in the first place!
> 
> 
> ...


Um....not sure what your point is, but when a man tries to "pass" and unwittingly brings a wife into his internal drama, HE is 100% responsible for that, and it most certainly IS a choice and a deception.

This isn't about gay rights. This is about betraying another person.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Araucaria said:


> While you wish all women were "just a little" homosexual, you are mistaken.



Why would I WISH it, it’s just that I have observed, perhaps mistakenly, that all girls-only slumber parties tend to end up in everyone eventually going down on each other 
Ok, I may need to ask the cable guy how to change the channel on my tv next time he comes to fix the tv and hit on my wife....

It would be funny if my wife was a lesbian. I will need to investigate that somehow and come back....Anyone wants to volunteer to try and turn her a bit gay? (Joking! Don’t ban me. Yet.)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> Um....not sure what your point is, but when a man tries to "pass" and unwittingly brings a wife into his internal drama, HE is 100% responsible for that, and it most certainly IS a choice and a deception.
> 
> This isn't about gay rights. This is about betraying another person.



It’s a simplistic view. It’s easy to place blame and be done with it....I’m just offering an alternative perspective: if you were taught your whole life that you can CHOOSE which sex you can be attracted to, of course you will want to try and lead a ‘normal’ life, get a girlfriend, marry, take out the dog, get to know neighbours etc. Until you realise that actually, I wouldn’t mind a bit of d1ck now and again.
However if you were properly informed that sexuality is NOT a choice (which is what it is), then you would know that what you are trying to attempt, is going to be futile. Am I not expressing myself clearly?
The problem is proper education...or lack thereof. Not the gay husbands, per se. Even though it’s understandably easier to blame the husband.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > Um....not sure what your point is, but when a man tries to "pass" and unwittingly brings a wife into his internal drama, HE is 100% responsible for that, and it most certainly IS a choice and a deception.
> ...


I like the way you misrepresent and presume facts not in evidence to support you obviously slanted point.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> I like the way you misrepresent and presume facts not in evidence to support you obviously slanted point.



I know it must be endearing...
I am happy to be corrected. I think in recent years the church has made a lot of progress in its views on sexuality.

But it seems to me that even now that some people, especially around here, seem to think that homosexuality is somehow unnatural (when it clearly occurs all the time with other animals as well, not just people), and that you can ‘snap yourself out of it’. What do you think happens when you are exposed to this kind of doctrine? (That prevailed in the past and still lingers). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > I like the way you misrepresent and presume facts not in evidence to support you obviously slanted point.
> ...


I assume the "church" you keep referring to is Islam, right? Because that religion still advocates stoning gay people. The local church on the corner simply expresses what they believe the Bible says to be sin.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> I assume the "church" you keep referring to is Islam, right? Because that religion still advocates stoning gay people. The local church on the corner simply expresses what they believe the Bible says to be sin.



Which includes homosexuality? Sorry, I’m not up to speed with the lates interpretations...I never said anything about stoning...
I was under the impression homosexuality was not exactly rejoiced and celebrated about 30-40 years ago...(and in some parts of the US, it is still a bit of a taboo. According to Borat at least...).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > I assume the "church" you keep referring to is Islam, right? Because that religion still advocates stoning gay people. The local church on the corner simply expresses what they believe the Bible says to be sin.
> ...


It's always interesting discussing religion with people who are anti-religion.

Yes, many churches belief homosexual acts are sin, like infidelity, gossip, lying, etc.

But since every person inside a church is human, and no human is perfect, no church I have ever encountered sequesters the gay people to be flogged and acvosted.

Why is it so important for you to absolve husbands who USE a woman as a beard?


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> It’s a simplistic view. It’s easy to place blame and be done with it....I’m just offering an alternative perspective: if you were taught your whole life that you can CHOOSE which sex you can be attracted to, of course you will want to try and lead a ‘normal’ life, get a girlfriend, marry, take out the dog, get to know neighbours etc. Until you realise that actually, I wouldn’t mind a bit of d1ck now and again.
> However if you were properly informed that sexuality is NOT a choice (which is what it is), then you would know that what you are trying to attempt, is going to be futile. Am I not expressing myself clearly?
> The problem is proper education...or lack thereof. Not the gay husbands, per se. Even though it’s understandably easier to blame the husband.
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying. I do. A man is raised in an uber religious Christian household. His church, pastor, parents, and family all raise him to believe he can "Choose" what sexual orientation to be. So although he has all these warm, fuzzy feelings for ****, he decides he wants to "choose" to be straight so he find some nice, poor, unsuspecting woman that he truly cares for and marries her. Hilarity ensues. 

It's a good working theory for sure. I can accept that might happen, except that EVERY homosexual I know does NOT believe their inclinations are a choice. 100% of homosexuals I've polled say it's NOT a choice. Even when they grew up surrounded by people who tell them that it is. I live in an area where homosexuality is not a big deal. The captain of our football team came out 2 years ago. Nobody even batted an eye. There are lots of transplants from the bible belt here. I know a lot of homosexuals...again, they all say it's not a choice.

The more likely scenario is that a young man starts to realize he likes ****. He treads lightly. He gets a bad response from family and friends so he crawls way back into the closet. (this is what happened with my husband) Or, before he even treads lightly, he is raised by parents and family that talk trash about homosexuals so he's afraid to come out. He realizes that in order to lead a peaceful, normal life he's going to have to marry a woman. That normal life seems like nirvana to him, he craves it, needs it, must have it. So, he finds a woman he truly likes and maybe even loves, not the right way, but he does love her. He convinces himself that sex and being with a man is just not important. And he marries, has kids, has the white picket fence etc. But all the while, he's deceiving that woman he proclaims to love. And as more and more years go by without any ****, he thinks about it more and more, and wants it more and more. He can't control it anymore so he says "I'll just watch some homosexual porn, that will help me" and before he knows it, he's having sex with men and cheating on that woman he supposedly loves. 

As someone who has lived it, I can tell you that my story is the much more likely scenario. But, I don't think gay husbands think to themselves "hey...how can I **** up this girl's life?? What's the best way to crush her soul?" I think they honestly think they love the woman and that they can get over their need for **** in exchange for everything else they get out of the marriage. I know my husband didn't do this to me on purpose. But it's still a huge betrayal. 

When he asked me about my sexual history I held nothing back. When I asked him he lied, right to my face. Never said "Hey, I'm struggling with the fact that although I love you, I also like ****" which is something I absolutely should have been told before he asked me to marry him. If he identified as bisexual I might not have to feel like every intimate moment with him in the last 24 years was a lie. But it's too late now. When I look back I just see a man who had to force himself to be with me and that has caused emotional damage that's honestly hard to quantify.

It's easy to say it's not a betrayal when you haven't lived it.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> It's always interesting discussing religion with people who are anti-religion.
> 
> Yes, many churches belief homosexual acts are sin, like infidelity, gossip, lying, etc.
> 
> ...



It’s not at all important to ME. I thought it might be more relevant to people who have been married to husbands who turned out to be gay. I find it is much easier to live a life without negative feelings and full of forgiveness (and I’m not even a Christian...).

I’m not in the slightest anti-religious. I not sure where you got that idea from. I see a lot of problems that religions can cause. I also see a lot of comfort that it can give to people. Like anything in life, there is always two sides to everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

You said everything perfectly, notmyjamie. I don't understand why people can't just be compassionate and say, "I am so sorry you went through that" instead of using it as some "platform."

Its damn annoying and insensitive.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> I see what you're saying. I do. A man is raised in an uber religious Christian household. His church, pastor, parents, and family all raise him to believe he can "Choose" what sexual orientation to be. So although he has all these warm, fuzzy feelings for ****, he decides he wants to "choose" to be straight so he find some nice, poor, unsuspecting woman that he truly cares for and marries her. Hilarity ensues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don’t actually think it’s black and white. (Deliberate betrayal vs non-betrayal). Situations like these rarely are. I believe very few people are deliberately evil (including gay husbands...). I’m not sure how one can take a reliable ‘poll’ if the closeted gay husbands are not going to participate in them in the first place, but it doesn’t matter...

You are right, that it is probably inappropriate/insensitive for me to comment, except to offer my sympathy and condolences for the situation that you illustrated here, on the public forum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> I don’t actually think it’s black and white. (Deliberate betrayal vs non-betrayal). Situations like these rarely are. I believe very few people are deliberately evil (including gay husbands...). I’m not sure how one can take a reliable ‘poll’ if the closeted gay husbands are not going to participate in them in the first place, but it doesn’t matter...
> 
> 
> I guess my writing skills are poor tonight because I was trying to convey that I, too, think it's not black and white. As I said, I do not believe my husband did this on purpose. I don't think any gay husbands (or wives) do and I don't believe they are evil people. I think they are suffering in their own right and don't know how to fix it. To that end, I have recommended therapy to my husband quite a number of times. But the fact remains that they leave a shattered soul in the wake of their despair.
> ...


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Apologies, I was half replying to your post, half to someone else and with so many replies, I sometimes cannot see the gays for the trees...
Your writing is perfectly fine and it is brave of you to discuss your situation in the way that you have.

"When I said I polled homosexuals, I didn't mean closeted people. But, it stands to reason that if every one I know feels it's not a choice, the closeted ones probably feel they are stuck with their feelings as well, they just don't know how to deal with them. For the record, my husband recently said to me "do you think I'd ever choose this???" so I know he, too, does not feel it's a choice for him."

I don't want to labour on this point too much (because I trust your instincts are probably more correct than what i could possibly be reading into it) but the key word here is "recently". It doesn't mean that that is what he always felt. Things are always so clear with hindsight.

"As I said, my sister has been telling me for a while that my husband is bisexual based on some attitudes and behaviors she's noticed in the past. I desperately want to believe this because that means on some level he actually was attracted to me. I can't let myself believe it yet, but it helps to hear she believes it. I probably sound stupid for saying it but there it is."

I am not sure I quite understand the logic: if he is gay and/or bisexual, then surely the fact that he still married and was willing to be intimate with you is a huge sign that you were *that* special to him? It's almost impossible to sleep with someone you are *not* attracted to (from my experience), especially if you are having difficulties being attracted to the whole gender...
Either way: perhaps it mustn't dictate your self-validation at this point, what your ex-husband felt or didn't feel. Have you found someone who can genuinely love you AND be attracted to you in the way that you desire? Because there are plenty of people out there who will fill that role.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> Apologies, I was half replying to your post, half to someone else and with so many replies, I sometimes cannot see the gays for the trees...
> Your writing is perfectly fine and it is brave of you to discuss your situation in the way that you have.
> 
> Thank you. I hope that someone else going through it may be helped by reading my story.
> ...


----------



## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

notmyjamie said:


> I see what you're saying. I do. A man is raised in an uber religious Christian household. His church, pastor, parents, and family all raise him to believe he can "Choose" what sexual orientation to be. So although he has all these warm, fuzzy feelings for ****, he decides he wants to "choose" to be straight so he find some nice, poor, unsuspecting woman that he truly cares for and marries her. Hilarity ensues.
> 
> It's a good working theory for sure. I can accept that might happen, except that EVERY homosexual I know does NOT believe their inclinations are a choice. 100% of homosexuals I've polled say it's NOT a choice. Even when they grew up surrounded by people who tell them that it is. I live in an area where homosexuality is not a big deal. The captain of our football team came out 2 years ago. Nobody even batted an eye. There are lots of transplants from the bible belt here. I know a lot of homosexuals...again, they all say it's not a choice.
> 
> ...


Your husband being gay or closeted gay is not the issue.

This is the issue: we are finite beings with a limited time on this earth. Your husband (ex?) stole your time from you. You can’t reclaim your time. This is why you struggle with it all. My favorite quote is this: everyone you meet is struggling with a battle you know nothing about. No one in your inner circle has any idea.

Peace to you NMJ.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This question comes up every-so-often and it still triggers me a bit as I once lost a LTR girlfriend to a woman.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I don’t think sleeping with ‘someone to get it over with’ is a good idea, in any circumstance. I hope I didn’t imply it...I just meant it’s a good idea to look forward to something or someone.
Just take it slow and eventually someone will turn up. Yes, there are plenty of good people out there, I’m sure of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

InMyPrime said:


> I don’t think sleeping with ‘someone to get it over with’ is a good idea, in any circumstance. I hope I didn’t imply it...I just meant it’s a good idea to look forward to something or someone.
> Just take it slow and eventually someone will turn up. Yes, there are plenty of good people out there, I’m sure of it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree and I never, ever would actually do it. I just mentioned it to further support how when dealing with all this emotions sometimes take over instead of logic. I am not the type, nor would I ever be the type. Just one more reason all this infuriates me...I don't share myself easily with people and THIS is what I ended up sharing half my life with??? Damned annoying I tell you. 
@Absurdist you hit the nail on the head...I feel like he stole my youth from me. I was young, thinner, prettier, yada yada yada...had plenty of time to find a life partner. If he hadn't asked me out I would have found someone else. Now, 25 years later, I'm alone and that sucks. No other way to say it.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I would take a different view. No one gets to keep their youth. If you enjoyed it, then you did the best you could have done, even if it turned out that the relationship didn't last. 

I think its possible to find someone at any age. 




notmyjamie said:


> I agree and I never, ever would actually do it. I just mentioned it to further support how when dealing with all this emotions sometimes take over instead of logic. I am not the type, nor would I ever be the type. Just one more reason all this infuriates me...I don't share myself easily with people and THIS is what I ended up sharing half my life with??? Damned annoying I tell you.
> 
> @Absurdist you hit the nail on the head...I feel like he stole my youth from me. I was young, thinner, prettier, yada yada yada...had plenty of time to find a life partner. If he hadn't asked me out I would have found someone else. Now, 25 years later, I'm alone and that sucks. No other way to say it.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

uhtred said:


> I think its possible to find someone at any age.


Not according to most of the bitter divorced women who seem to be just dying to tell me how bad all the men in the world are and how there is almost no chance in hell of finding a good one anymore. LOL

I joined a divorce group for women on Facebook. Someone posted a screenshot of some poor man's Match photo and just ripped him to shreds with all the faults she just knew he had based on his picture. If a guy had done that with a woman's picture, women would have come out of the woodwork to tear him a new *******. But these women all joined in on trashing this unknown guy. And then they wonder why they can't meet a man. Sigh. 

Although, I think I just gave myself some hope. If these are the women I'm competing with I might just do ok. :smile2:


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> Well I did say it was a theory...
> It was actually my wife who SAID that when we were watching lesbian porn together once (that the thought of soapy women in the shower was a turn on and that she wouldn’t throw up if she went down on a clean beautiful woman...for her, that was quite a monumental admission...).
> 
> I have also once seen an interview and all the female porn stars (all ‘straight’ btw) said that they would much rather go down on a woman rather than a guy (or give oral to a woman than receive oral from a guy). So I didn’t pull it all out entirely out of my ass
> ...


Well to be honest your wife is only one lady, and I am not sure that female porn stars are representative of most women. I had read that a large proportion of porn stars don't actually even like sex.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> Not according to most of the bitter divorced women who seem to be just dying to tell me how bad all the men in the world are and how there is almost no chance in hell of finding a good one anymore. LOL
> 
> I joined a divorce group for women on Facebook. Someone posted a screenshot of some poor man's Match photo and just ripped him to shreds with all the faults she just knew he had based on his picture. If a guy had done that with a woman's picture, women would have come out of the woodwork to tear him a new *******. But these women all joined in on trashing this unknown guy. And then they wonder why they can't meet a man. Sigh.
> 
> Although, I think I just gave myself some hope. If these are the women I'm competing with I might just do ok. :smile2:


If someone is still bitter and angry then its not surprising they cant get a guy. If a guy I met was still clearly bitter about his ex, I would know he wasn't in anyway ready to be in another relationship.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> I agree and I never, ever would actually do it. I just mentioned it to further support how when dealing with all this emotions sometimes take over instead of logic. I am not the type, nor would I ever be the type. Just one more reason all this infuriates me...I don't share myself easily with people and THIS is what I ended up sharing half my life with??? Damned annoying I tell you.
> 
> @Absurdist you hit the nail on the head...I feel like he stole my youth from me. I was young, thinner, prettier, yada yada yada...had plenty of time to find a life partner. If he hadn't asked me out I would have found someone else. Now, 25 years later, I'm alone and that sucks. No other way to say it.


I had a 25 year marriage that ended in a very sudden and traumatic way, but I have learnt that we cant live the rest of our life feeling bitter and angry and with regrets. All that has happened to us has made us who we are. We can learn from past mistakes, appreciate what we did get from that lost marriage and enjoy life now. I have three amazing adult children, my ex husbands family who I am still in contact with, and I am a far wiser person. 
I think its about not letting what happened ruin the rest of our lives.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> I had a 25 year marriage that ended in a very sudden and traumatic way, but I have learnt that we cant live the rest of our life feeling bitter and angry and with regrets. All that has happened to us has made us who we are. We can learn from past mistakes, appreciate what we did get from that lost marriage and enjoy life now. I have three amazing adult children, my ex husbands family who I am still in contact with, and I am a far wiser person.
> I think its about not letting what happened ruin the rest of our lives.


I agree completely. That has been my attitude with other breakups. I don't look back and wish I'd never been with that person. I learn from it and move on. I'm just not there yet emotionally. Healing takes time and I'm still healing. And as I said in an earlier post, I can't focus on anger. I don't want to be bitter and angry all the time. It's no way to live. I am sad, disillusioned, scared of the future, etc. and all of that is overwhelming sometimes.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> I agree completely. That has been my attitude with other breakups. I don't look back and wish I'd never been with that person. I learn from it and move on. I'm just not there yet emotionally. Healing takes time and I'm still healing. And as I said in an earlier post, I can't focus on anger. I don't want to be bitter and angry all the time. It's no way to live. I am sad, disillusioned, scared of the future, etc. and all of that is overwhelming sometimes.



Yes you are so right, healing does take time. It was 6 years after mine ended when I met my now husband and I was still pretty unhappy and healing then. As was he from his much more recent betrayal by his wife after a 23 year marriage. 
Its not easy I know. :frown2:
I don't like to use the F word,(forgiveness), but it does help to forgive when you are able. Its as if that releases them from affecting you so much.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Well to be honest your wife is only one lady, and I am not sure that female porn stars are representative of most women. I had read that a large proportion of porn stars don't actually even like sex.



Ok but would you be more grossed out by, say, two women French kissing or two men?
I know the answer for myself but I don’t understand why it is so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I had a 25 year marriage that ended in a very sudden and traumatic way, but I have learnt that we cant live the rest of our life feeling bitter and angry and with regrets. All that has happened to us has made us who we are. We can learn from past mistakes, appreciate what we did get from that lost marriage and enjoy life now. I have three amazing adult children, my ex husbands family who I am still in contact with, and I am a far wiser person.
> 
> I think its about not letting what happened ruin the rest of our lives.



You caught him watch porn? Don’t worry if it’s too personal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Yes you are so right, healing does take time. It was 6 years after mine ended when I met my now husband and I was still pretty unhappy and healing then. As was he from his much more recent betrayal by his wife after a 23 year marriage.
> 
> Its not easy I know. :frown2:
> 
> I don't like to use the F word,(forgiveness), but it does help to forgive when you are able. Its as if that releases them from affecting you so much.




Yes, the F word is perhaps my favourite thing about Christianity (as is the U word, followed by C and K)*

*Understanding, Communication, and Kindness


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> Ok but would you be more grossed out by, say, two women French kissing or two men?
> I know the answer for myself but I dunno understand why it is so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wouldn't like to see either, but do you think it depends on whether people watch porn? Iguess if they see lots of porn involving 2 women they will get more used to that being more 'normal'.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> Yes, the F word is perhaps my favourite thing about Christianity (as is the U word, followed by C and K)*
> 
> *Understanding, Communication, and Kindness
> 
> ...


Yes, forgiveness isn't easy at all, but so so valuable and important for our well being.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I wouldn't like to see either, but do you think it depends on whether people watch porn? Iguess if they see lots of porn involving 2 women they will get more used to that being more 'normal'.



Aha, you see, i don’t think it’s anything to do with that. There’s something about two men kissing that grosses people out bit more more than seeing two women kissing.
I can watch gay porn all day long but I don’t think I will ever get used to it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> You caught him watch porn? Don’t worry if it’s too personal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, as far I know he never watched porn although back then (married from mid 70's-late 90's) porn wasn't the same as it is now, more magazines.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> Aha, you see, i don’t think it’s anything to do with that. There’s something about two men kissing that grosses people out bit more more than seeing two women kissing.
> I can watch gay porn all day long but I don’t think I will ever get used to it!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't see them as any different.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I don't see them as any different.



Yes, I understand porn is porn etc but what would YOU be more grossed out by if you saw two couples on the street? You mean it would gross you out equally? In which case perhaps I’m unusually homophobic then 
(It’s not that i would be grossed out, just that the first instinct would be that it’s not the most pleasant thing to watch).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Interestingly, somebody did some research into it:

“According to a 2011 study conducted by researchers at Boise State University, 60 percent of women who identify as heterosexual (straight) have admitted to being sexually attracted to another woman. 484 women were questioned for the study, and the numbers show that a higher amount of women than expected have sexual ideations about other women in one way or another.”

https://www.scarymommy.com/straight-women-attracted-women/

I sincerely doubt that it’s the same %age (or anywhere close) for straight men!

Furthermore: 

“This is probably why straight women tend to be more interested in watching “lesbian” porn (I use the quotes because even most lesbian porn isn’t made for those who identify as lesbians.) Partially because straight porn (with a man and a woman) is so absurd to watch. Lesbian-labeled porn focuses more on the pleasure of a woman, which we know straight porn very rarely does. According to a PornHub survey from 2015/2016, “lesbian” porn is the most searched for type of porn for women in the United States. Women want to see the way they experience pleasure mirrored back to them rather than watching some dude with a veiny penis spraying a woman in the face like his penis is a firehose.”


I’m not sure I agree that’s the reason why. I think there’s something aesthetically different between two men vs two women and that perception doesn’t mirror 100% when you flip the sexes. Although I do know some women who like to watch guy on guy porn. But I’m not sure it’s the majority.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

red oak said:


> Mayhaps I have missed it, but haven't seen a thread on it.
> 
> I'm curious as I know a man's wife who cheated on him with another woman.
> 
> ...


This might sound terrible but I would be slightly less offended by my wife cheating with a woman.

There would only be a fraction of a difference but it would undeniably be there.

There is also a difference between her dancing and being flirty with men vs the same behavior with women.

I have watched her dancing with women and being a little flirty with them, all in good fun, and it was a turn on. Cannot say the same thing if she behaved that way with men.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Some men and women cause their own problems with relationships - either rejecting potential partners for silly reasons, or having unrealistic expectations, or sometimes becoming bitter, and that being obvious to potential partners. 

It can be a problem though, no argument there. I wish dating IRL and online were set up to work better. 



notmyjamie said:


> Not according to most of the bitter divorced women who seem to be just dying to tell me how bad all the men in the world are and how there is almost no chance in hell of finding a good one anymore. LOL
> 
> I joined a divorce group for women on Facebook. Someone posted a screenshot of some poor man's Match photo and just ripped him to shreds with all the faults she just knew he had based on his picture. If a guy had done that with a woman's picture, women would have come out of the woodwork to tear him a new *******. But these women all joined in on trashing this unknown guy. And then they wonder why they can't meet a man. Sigh.
> 
> Although, I think I just gave myself some hope. If these are the women I'm competing with I might just do ok. :smile2:


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Some reactions are involuntary. I'm grossed out by seeing 2 men kissing. I don't object to it, and I do my very best not to indicate how I feel - a gay married couple is close friends. Something ingrained in me as a child that I can't shake. 

So I see it is my problem not theirs. 

Two women kissing OTOH is arousing to me - don't know why that is the case either. 






InMyPrime said:


> Yes, I understand porn is porn etc but what would YOU be more grossed out by if you saw two couples on the street? You mean it would gross you out equally? In which case perhaps I’m unusually homophobic then
> (It’s not that i would be grossed out, just that the first instinct would be that it’s not the most pleasant thing to watch).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Some reactions are involuntary. I'm grossed out by seeing 2 men kissing. I don't object to it, and I do my very best not to indicate how I feel - a gay married couple is close friends. Something ingrained in me as a child that I can't shake.
> 
> So I see it is my problem not theirs.
> 
> Two women kissing OTOH is arousing to me - don't know why that is the case either.


Men are concrete. Women have fluidity.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> If someone is still bitter and angry then its not surprising they cant get a guy. If a guy I met was still clearly bitter about his ex, I would know he wasn't in anyway ready to be in another relationship.


And yet I can list several bitter people who think they are entitled to a relationship, or at least sex. But I won't.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Cheating is cheating, and as I would never be interested in a threesome and believe 100% in faithfulness, it would make no difference whether it was with a man or woman.


This to a T. Queue up the divorce lawyer, doesn't matter whether it was a man, woman, or any of the other 87 genders.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

cheating is cheating.
that said, I personally would be more bothered by her cheating with a man, than with a woman. With a woman is somehow a lot less threatening.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I have an absolute loathing for dishonesty. The one and only time DH and I were in significant trouble, he played games with honesty. He was honest by the letter of the law but not the spirit. Nope. Not having it. Gender? Truly don't care. Dishonest. Not a chance.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> And yet I can list several bitter people who think they are entitled to a relationship, or at least sex. But I won't.


Well I guess if you are that desperate you can always get sex.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> This to a T. Queue up the divorce lawyer, doesn't matter whether it was a man, woman, or any of the other 87 genders.


Absolutely, and for me if my husband was caught with another man it would have an extra concern in that he wasn't the man I thought he was, as in fully hetro-sexual.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> Interestingly, somebody did some research into it:
> 
> “According to a 2011 study conducted by researchers at Boise State University, 60 percent of women who identify as heterosexual (straight) have admitted to being sexually attracted to another woman. 484 women were questioned for the study, and the numbers show that a higher amount of women than expected have sexual ideations about other women in one way or another.”
> 
> ...


There is a popular theory that everyone is somewhere on the spectrum of orientation fluidity. Whatever. Seems unimportant to me. What het women have, that het men don't is the perception TO MEN that woman on woman is hot.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

red oak said:


> Men are concrete. Women have fluidity.


Is that real or is it our perceptions? A woman can tell someone she had an encounter with a woman in college and she's still straight and it's hot and not at all threatening (to most men, not all) but a man says he experimented in college and he's definitely gay. I am guilty of this, absolutely, I freely admit it. 

I think maybe way more men are fluid than we realize. On my darker days, I feel like my entire sex life with my husband was a lie because he had to force himself to be with me. He tells me that is not at all true. I have trouble believing that simply because I now know he is attracted to men. But, if I sit and think logically, it could very well be true. Our sex life was good for many years. I saw no signs that he wasn't into it or just forcing himself. For many years he initiated a lot. But I still find it hard to believe simply because I know he is attracted to or "curious" about men. To me, that negates our entire relationship, which, if I were giving advice to someone else I would say is not fair to him. But it's about me so I'm not very rationale about it. But when I've read certain forums or advice columns in the pursuit of answers to my situation, I've come across MANY stories of men who a fluid who lean one way for a while and go another way at different times in their life. 

Either way our marriage is over because he lied (by omission) about something so fundamental about himself. He didn't give me all the information about himself before asking me to commit to him. And he cheated. So for me, it's game over. What I believe about him and our relationship really only affects my emotional healing from this point on and that can change daily.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

notmyjamie said:


> Is that real or is it our perceptions? A woman can tell someone she had an encounter with a woman in college and she's still straight and it's hot and not at all threatening (to most men, not all) but a man says he experimented in college and he's definitely gay. I am guilty of this, absolutely, I freely admit it.


I will admit I feel this way as well. I personally don't think guys (in general) are all that fluid or have an interest in experimenting with other dudes.

In terms of women, I know I have read articles stating that women are more genetically inclined towards this (didn't read too much into it or whether there was any sort of validity to the author's point). I think what makes it hard to discern is the fact that female on female is constantly pushed. When it comes to porn, lesbian acts are very common. However, even if you look outside of porn, go look at model shoots or head over to Instagram. It seems to be rather frequent where two female models are posing together in a rather suggestive manner. You don't see this much with male models (at least not what I have seen lol). Is it b/c the females truly have a sexual interest in each other, or it is being done simply for the views (i.e. this is what guys want to see). Maybe a combination of both?


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> notmyjamie said:
> 
> 
> > Is that real or is it our perceptions? A woman can tell someone she had an encounter with a woman in college and she's still straight and it's hot and not at all threatening (to most men, not all) but a man says he experimented in college and he's definitely gay. I am guilty of this, absolutely, I freely admit it.
> ...


As a bisexual woman I can tell you that most of those girls are straight and are only acting for male attention.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Absolutely, and for me if my husband was caught with another man it would have an extra concern in that he wasn't the man I thought he was, as in fully hetro-sexual.


Funny, I think for me I would view it worse if my W cheated on me with another dude vs a female. With a female, I could at least somewhat "justify" that my W had a different sexual preference from what I could provide (although I do agree with you it would have me questioning things from the beginning). Cheating with another dude would just have more of a "you are simply not good enough" vibe. 

Either way, there is no coming back. Cheat, relationship is instantly over, move on...


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

notmyjamie said:


> Is that real or is it *our *perceptions?


Not mine, that's for sure.

ETA some of the most rigid people I have ever met have been female. Sexually and otherwise.


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> *Is that real or is it our perceptions? * A woman can tell someone she had an encounterwith a woman in college and she's still straight and it's hot and not at all threatening (to most men, not all) but a man says he experimented in college and he's definitely gay. I am guilty of this, absolutely, I freely admit it.
> 
> I think maybe way more men are fluid than we realize. On my darker days, I feel like my entire sex life with my husband was a lie because he had to force himself to be with me. He tells me that is not at all true. I have trouble believing that simply because I now know he is attracted to men. But, if I sit and think logically, it could very well be true. Our sex life was good for many years. I saw no signs that he wasn't into it or just forcing himself. For many years he initiated a lot. But I still find it hard to believe simply because I know he is attracted to or "curious" about men. To me, that negates our entire relationship, which, if I were giving advice to someone else I would say is not fair to him. But it's about me so I'm not very rationale about it. But when I've read certain forums or advice columns in the pursuit of answers to my situation, I've come across MANY stories of men who a fluid who lean one way for a while and go another way at different times in their life.
> 
> Either way our marriage is over because he lied (by omission) about something so fundamental about himself. He didn't give me all the information about himself before asking me to commit to him. And he cheated. So for me, it's game over. What I believe about him and our relationship really only affects my emotional healing from this point on and that can change daily.


 My comment was based on several studies I have read.
Perception wise haven't evaluated it much in live settings although it does make sense from general observations.

Gender bender/mimicry hormones from chemicals may affect it to a certain extent.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> As a bisexual woman I can tell you that most of those girls are straight and are only acting for male attention.


Now that I just do not understand at all. I am 100% straight. That's not to say I can't appreciate a beautiful woman. Saw one yesterday. She was drop dead gorgeous and I remarked to my coworkers about it. But I had no desire to do anything sexual with her, I just thought she was gorgeous. Even with her, nothing short of a gun to mine or my children's heads would entice me to do anything sexual with her. And I certainly wouldn't do it just to get a man's attention. Of course, I'm not the type to behave out of character to attract men. If someone doesn't want the real me we can just go our separate ways.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

notmyjamie said:


> Now that I just do not understand at all. I am 100% straight. That's not to say I can't appreciate a beautiful woman. Saw one yesterday. She was drop dead gorgeous and I remarked to my coworkers about it. But I had no desire to do anything sexual with her, I just thought she was gorgeous. Even with her, nothing short of a gun to mine or my children's heads would entice me to do anything sexual with her. And I certainly wouldn't do it just to get a man's attention. Of course, I'm not the type to behave out of character to attract men. If someone doesn't want the real me we can just go our separate ways.


If you want to be an "influencer" or Instamodel , you will go to great lengths to get views. Even if you are 100% straight, you can easily paint a different picture via social media...


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

red oak said:


> My comment was based on several studies I have read.
> Perception wise haven't evaluated it much in live settings although it does make sense from general observations.
> 
> Gender bender/mimicry hormones from chemicals may affect it to a certain extent.


Interesting. I may have to do more research. Of course, I'm totally invested in fluidity in men being normal for obvious reasons. So if the studies you mention don't support that, I might be better off leaving it alone.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

NobodySpecial said:


> Not mine, that's for sure.
> 
> ETA some of the most rigid people I have ever met have been female. Sexually and otherwise.


I meant "ours" as in society. Do you mean rigid as in their expectations of others or rigid as in not at all fluid??


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> notmyjamie said:
> 
> 
> > Now that I just do not understand at all. I am 100% straight. That's not to say I can't appreciate a beautiful woman. Saw one yesterday. She was drop dead gorgeous and I remarked to my coworkers about it. But I had no desire to do anything sexual with her, I just thought she was gorgeous. Even with her, nothing short of a gun to mine or my children's heads would entice me to do anything sexual with her. And I certainly wouldn't do it just to get a man's attention. Of course, I'm not the type to behave out of character to attract men. If someone doesn't want the real me we can just go our separate ways.
> ...


Exactly. But young women have been doing this for male attention for a long time.

And that’s kind of how you can tell someone is just putting on a show. Because it’s being shown.

Real acts of intimacy don’t happen for show and don’t happen in other people’s faces like that. People who are actually into each other don’t need a camera on them. 

I think it’s true that many women are sexually fluid. But the idea that any woman will just blindly “experiment” is driven by male fantasy. In reality, if you try to kiss a woman who is straight you’ll get the same reaction as a man who is trying to kiss a straight man.


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> Interesting. I may have to do more research. Of course, I'm totally invested in fluidity in men being normal for obvious reasons. So if the studies you mention don't support that, I might be better off leaving it alone.


Good luck. 
These new politically correct policing search algorithms make them hard to find now.
There are at least 3 studies on it. Probably more.

But they discredit the hopes of a certain segment promoting the gender fluidity ideologies they want people to believe.

The setting for a Male solidifies somewhere in mid-teens if I remember right, whether bi, straight, or homosexual, along with body type preference in there partner, and a few other things.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

red oak said:


> Good luck.
> These new politically correct policing search algorithms make them hard to find now.
> There are at least 3 studies on it. Probably more.


Any hint where to look? Thanks.



> But they discredit the hopes of a certain segment promoting the gender fluidity ideologies they want people to believe.


I wonder why people think that there is a vast mind control conspiracy. What a lot of effort.


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> My husband has no idea how much he has damaged me. He crushed my soul and I honestly am not sure I'll ever come back from it all the way. I wonder if I'll ever be able to trust someone with my body ever again.
> 
> I should probably get some therapy but I'm afraid if I start to really talk about it with someone in person, I'll start crying and never stop.


I know it is cliché, but it is really not about you. In your case it is completely about him and the things that he did. 

I know it does not help the pain, but at least you don't have to wonder like some men do "was that GIRL so much better than me". 

And yes, as scary as it is, you should get some therapy. You really will not cry forever, but it may feel like that. 

You are going to need to do something to get over this... And as bad as what he did to you by getting married and having kids was, I your case, as in most cases, it really had nothing to do with you... 

Intellectually, I know you understand that...


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> red oak said:
> 
> 
> > Good luck.
> ...


Nice save. I’ll send you the toaster oven. Keeping it hush from “them” is priority.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

BluesPower said:


> I know it is cliché, but it is really not about you. In your case it is completely about him and the things that he did.
> 
> I know it does not help the pain, but at least you don't have to wonder like some men do "was that GIRL so much better than me".
> 
> ...


Thank you. Yes, intellectually I am very understanding of it. For me there is a very emotional side and a more intellectual side. I try to stick to the intellectual thoughts but on some days the emotions take over. I actually went out to dinner with an old ex boyfriend, someone I almost married, and it was very cathartic for me. We talked a lot about relationships in general (He's struggling at the moment, his fiance left him about a year ago and his current girlfriend doesn't seem to want an emotional connection with him) and we talked about my situation. He made me see things in much the way you're talking about here. Also said that he had heard about my husband long before we married and that multiple people had told him my husband was crazy about me. It just makes me question the beginning of our relationship and although I worry and convince myself at times it was all a lie, I wonder now if that is true. He also told me that if he was struggling with his sexuality it's almost a compliment that he thought I'd be the one he could overcome it with and at first I laughed but when I thought more about it he's right in a way. My husband did love me, you can't fake that unless you're a sociopath, and he is not. 

So I'm getting there. Today's goals are to call a lawyer and get the divorce going and make an appointment with a therapist. And exercise...I think I'll feel better when I look better and I'm in better shape. 

Thanks.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

notmyjamie said:


> I meant "ours" as in society. Do you mean rigid as in their expectations of others or rigid as in not at all fluid??


I was hesitant to reply to this. "Our" society is way less of one mind than most people think. We gravitate to those people and ideas we are comfortable with. Gender and orientation fluidity is not something whose reality or normalcy that is roundly rejected by "our" society. Just some segments.

In my experience, such as it is, orientation fluidity seems related to their open mindedness of thought in general.


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> Any hint where to look? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why people think that there is a vast mind control conspiracy. What a lot of effort.


I would have to look in some of my books to see if I can find names of the studies. Knowing the name is about the only way to find then anymore.

Who said anything about mind control. It's information control.

If you had ever ran across the problem of once prominent sites, of historical documents and such, which were once free , or required a subscription and are now error code 503, or 403 and forbidden to view from your country state or server, which has also been removed from the wayback machine would you not think it odd?


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

NobodySpecial said:


> I was hesitant to reply to this. "Our" society is way less of one mind than most people think.
> 
> You're right of course. Spend any amount of time on a public forum and you'll realize that quick enough.
> 
> ...


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

red oak said:


> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> > Any hint where to look? Thanks.
> ...


No it’s not odd. Nothing to see here. No conspiracy. We are not trying to make you all gay and gender fluid. It’s all a hoax. There are only straight men and bisexual women. Yep. Concrete AF!


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

"True, and some segments are more out there and louder about their thoughts and opinions and that makes it seem like they are the prevailing opinion."

I think that the ones people find "loudest" are the ones they disagree with most.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

red oak said:


> I would have to look in some of my books to see if I can find names of the studies. Knowing the name is about the only way to find then anymore.
> 
> Who said anything about mind control. It's information control.
> 
> If you had ever ran across the problem of once prominent sites, of historical documents and such, which were once free , or required a subscription and are now error code 503, or 403 and forbidden to view from your country state or server, which has also been removed from the wayback machine would you not think it odd?


I have never seen a forbidden to view from your country or state. I generally think the errors you mention are related to someones not wanting to pay for the servers anymore.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I do believe part of it just comes down to a smaller segment being the loudest (which gives off a bigger representation than there actually is). 

Funny, the CW network did these promo videos for some of their shows where the actors stressed support for all races, genders, etc... Go on to read the comments section, and there sure seemed like a lot of angry people over this. It wasn't what you think (people against the message). It was actually the opposite, the people making the loudest noise were those claiming the actors and network were hypocrites b/c there weren't enough gay characters in the shows ...

However, I do think there is a push (whether right or wrong, each person can decide) to push more gay characters (or have token "gay" scenes just so it can be crossed off a list) in media


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I do believe part of it just comes down to a smaller segment being the loudest (which gives off a bigger representation than there actually is).
> 
> Funny, the CW network did these promo videos for some of their shows where the actors stressed support for all races, genders, etc... Go on to read the comments section, and there sure seemed like a lot of angry people over this. It wasn't what you think (people against the message). It was actually the opposite, the people making the loudest noise were those claiming the actors and network were hypocrites b/c there weren't enough gay characters in the shows ...
> 
> However, I do think there is a push (whether right or wrong, each person can decide) to push more gay characters (or have token "gay" scenes just so it can be crossed off a list) in media


Or couldn’t it be because viewers and producers both want to see shows that reflect the actual population, rather than a mostly straight white population which does not reflect reality?


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Or couldn’t it be because viewers and producers both want to see shows that reflect the actual population, rather than a mostly straight white population which does not reflect reality?


Out gay people are not that new. But new enough that that market needs to be tapped HARD. And why not?


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Or couldn’t it be because viewers and producers both want to see shows that reflect the actual population, rather than a mostly straight white population which does not reflect reality?


Yes and no. Adding in gay characters or moments where it is completely out of place is really nothing more then trying to tick off the checkbox. Same goes with trying to turn characters gay out of nowhere (which some fans wanted to see on some of the shows).


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Yes and no. Adding in gay characters or moments where it is completely out of place is really nothing more then trying to tick off the checkbox. Same goes with trying to turn characters gay out of nowhere (which some fans wanted to see on some of the shows).


Where is it out of place?

There was a hue and cry from some segments about Sulu seen with his family which is rich given the original actor.


----------



## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> I have never seen a forbidden to view from your country or state. I generally think the errors you mention are related to someones not wanting to pay for the servers anymore.


From Microsoft.


> The 403 Forbidden error is an HTTP status code which means that accessing the page or resource you were trying to reach is absolutely forbidden for some reason.


I'm actually surprised archive.org still functions.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> Where is it out of place?
> 
> There was a hue and cry from some segments about Sulu seen with his family which is rich given the original actor.


When it has nothing to do with the character or plot, just gets thrown in there. Latest Avengers movie has a quick scene (although some cried b/c they felt it didn't go far enough and it was just Marvel's way of ticking off the box). Several other shows I have watched where it has been thrown in there where it had no bearing whatsoever on the show.

At the end of the day, when it comes to Hollywood, it comes down to money. It shows/movies flourish by having more gay characters, then you will see more characters. If not, you will just see the token moments.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

red oak said:


> From Microsoft.


Microsoft hosts this kind of content? That's pretty weird. Microsoft is required in places by laws to spawn messages I have never even heard of, let alone seen? Seems pretty unlikely. Microsoft does not want to pay for servers? Very easy to imagine.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> When it has nothing to do with the character or plot, just gets thrown in there. Latest Avengers movie has a quick scene (although some cried b/c they felt it didn't go far enough and it was just Marvel's way of ticking off the box).


What scene? 

So only same sex romantic devices are objectionable? Lord knows, they have been an unfortunate part of many an otherwise good move forever!


> Several other shows I have watched where it has been thrown in there where it had no bearing whatsoever on the show.


I would be very interested to know which ones.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> What scene?
> 
> So only same sex romantic devices are objectionable? Lord knows, they have been an unfortunate part of many an otherwise good move forever!


People were complaining about the scene where Captain A was doing a group therapy session, and the only person who spoke, it revolved about whether or not he should move forward with his relationship (with another guy). It was rather out of place in the context of the movie, but seems people were unhappy for the reason I mentioned (it was Marvel's way of getting a quick "gay" moment in there so they could tick off the box).



NobodySpecial said:


> I would be very interested to know which ones.


I could easily tell you off the bat a few shows (Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow). CW seems to be notorious for this.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

If my SO cheated on me with another man, I would be hurt. And, same sex or opposite sex, it really doesn't make a difference: cheating is cheating. But, I would know without a doubt that it would have nothing to do with me or whether we got along, etc. It would simply be because I'm a woman, and he needs another man. And, there's no working through that. I think in a way, I would rather be in that situation rather than him cheating with another woman. Then, I would constantly wonder what I did wrong, what I could've done differently, how I could've been better, and would probably never get the answers. I think I'd rather know that the reason was simpler than that. Not sure if I explained that correctly, but that's just how I feel in a nutshell.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> When it has nothing to do with the character or plot, just gets thrown in there. Latest Avengers movie has a quick scene (although some cried b/c they felt it didn't go far enough and it was just Marvel's way of ticking off the box). Several other shows I have watched where it has been thrown in there where it had no bearing whatsoever on the show.
> 
> At the end of the day, when it comes to Hollywood, it comes down to money. It shows/movies flourish by having more gay characters, then you will see more characters. If not, you will just see the token moments.


If it is the paying public who have decided they enjoy seeing more gay characters and they vote with their dollars, then how is it being "pushed" at us by the producers and writers?


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> If it is the paying public who have decided they enjoy seeing more gay characters and they vote with their dollars, then how is it being "pushed" at us by the producers and writers?


Huh, I didn't say that. I said ultimately money will talk. The Captain Marvel gal is saying that now is the time for Marvel to strike fast with LGBT superheroes. If Marvel feels there is money to be made, then yes, you will see more characters pushed. If not, then it will be relegated to more of these smaller moments.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

EllisRedding said:


> When it has nothing to do with the character or plot, just gets thrown in there. Latest Avengers movie has a quick scene (although some cried b/c they felt it didn't go far enough and it was just Marvel's way of ticking off the box). Several other shows I have watched where it has been thrown in there where it had no bearing whatsoever on the show.
> 
> At the end of the day, when it comes to Hollywood, it comes down to money. It shows/movies flourish by having more gay characters, then you will see more characters. If not, you will just see the token moments.


Sometimes that backstory can have an impact on why you believe certain characters make certain decisions. Takes a little more inferencing, but either way it doesn't really hurt stories for me. 

I'm not a fan of any sex scenes. They aren't realistic at alI and they are unnecessary 100% of the time. I much prefer the ones where you see two people kiss, the camera pans down to just their feet and you see a dress hit the floor as the camera fades to black. Then we are in a new scene. Everybody knows what happened. We really don't need to see some awkward sex scene. It adds nothing.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> People were complaining about the scene where Captain A was doing a group therapy session, and the only person who spoke, it revolved about whether or not he should move forward with his relationship (with another guy). It was rather out of place in the context of the movie, but seems people were unhappy for the reason I mentioned (it was Marvel's way of getting a quick "gay" moment in there so they could tick off the box).
> 
> 
> 
> I could easily tell you off the bat a few shows (Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow). CW seems to be notorious for this.


And I thought liberals were renowned for being easily offended! Out of place my ear.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Sometimes that backstory can have an impact on why you believe certain characters make certain decisions. Takes a little more inferencing, but either way it doesn't really hurt stories for me.
> 
> I'm not a fan of any sex scenes. They aren't realistic at alI and they are unnecessary 100% of the time. I much prefer the ones where you see two people kiss, the camera pans down to just their feet and you see a dress hit the floor as the camera fades to black. Then we are in a new scene. Everybody knows what happened. We really don't need to see some awkward sex scene. It adds nothing.


There was a debate elsewhere about sex scenes and how much were actually necessary for the storyline vs how much was just thrown in there for no other reason than to show a sex scene.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> And I thought liberals were renowned for being easily offended! Out of place my ear.


Not sure I follow who is offended lol


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Huh, I didn't say that. I said ultimately money will talk. The Captain Marvel gal is saying that now is the time for Marvel to strike fast with LGBT superheroes. If Marvel feels there is money to be made, then yes, you will see more characters pushed. If not, then it will be relegated to more of these smaller moments.


How would Marvel know what the public wants to see if the public did not vote with their dollars?

Are you saying we would pay to see things we do NOT want to see? And that producers are just pushing their own agenda, to make money, but these themes don't make money because it is what people want to see, it is because of some weird agenda, that is meant to make money but.....I'm confused.

The public wants to see more diversity and the writers and producers are responding by showing more diversity.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> *How would Marvel know what the public wants to see if the public did not vote with their dollars?*
> 
> Are you saying we would pay to see things we do NOT want to see? And that producers are just pushing their own agenda, to make money, but these themes don't make money because it is what people want to see, it is because of some weird agenda, that is meant to make money but.....I'm confused.
> 
> The public wants to see more diversity and the writers and producers are responding by showing more diversity.


The bolded is my point, I don't understand why we are going around in circles lol. If marvel decided that is was time to go all in with a gay superhero, release the movie, and the public votes yes with their dollars, then they will move forward with. If the movie does poorly, then not so much. No different than any other scenario. That is the question, that is what that one actress is pushing for, so let's see where it will go. I cant say one way or the other whether it would be received favorably or not.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I can think of a few movies nobody would have watched if it weren't for some girl on girl kissing and other stuff.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> The bolded is my point, I don't understand why we are going around in circles lol. If marvel decided that is was time to go all in with a gay superhero, release the movie, and the public votes yes with their dollars, then they will move forward with. If the movie does poorly, then not so much. No different than any other scenario. That is the question, that is what that one actress is pushing for, so let's see where it will go. I cant say one way or the other whether it would be received favorably or not.


Do you really think this is what is happening? You don't think that the world is becoming more accepting and diverse, and therefore we are insisting that our movies and TV stories match this?

You think it is just something that is like, a fad, that will go away when someone feels there's not money to be made from the fad?

I have to admit, the way straight people think sometimes really confuses me. But it's all good.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> *Do you really think this is what is happening? You don't think that the world is becoming more accepting and diverse, and therefore we are insisting that our movies and TV stories match this?*
> 
> You think it is just something that is like, a fad, that will go away when someone feels there's not money to be made from the fad?
> 
> I have to admit, the way straight people think sometimes really confuses me. But it's all good.


Yes and no. Do i think the world is becoming more accepting, yes? Do I think that there are instances where Hollywood throws in stuff for no other reason that to pat themselves on the back, yes.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

red oak said:


> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> > I have never seen a forbidden to view from your country or state. I generally think the errors you mention are related to someones not wanting to pay for the servers anymore.
> ...


 In this case the word for bidin does not mean what we typically think it means. This has nothing to do with some big bag boogie man trying to hide information. It has to do with servers that are now defunct, links that are broken, information that can no longer be found. Sorry, but as a Tech person I can guarantee you the word for bidin has nothing to do with a conspiracy.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

EllisRedding said:


> Yes and no. Do i think the world is becoming more accepting, yes? Do I think that there are instances where Hollywood throws in stuff for no other reason that to pat themselves on the back, yes.


I don't know if it's really more accepting. I think its just a change as to what is more accepted, and other beliefs are becoming increasingly less accepted. So it's probably about the same level of acceptance of others and their beliefs overall. Just a shift to different areas of acceptance.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> How would Marvel know what the public wants to see if the public did not vote with their dollars?
> 
> Are you saying we would pay to see things we do NOT want to see? *And that producers are just pushing their own agenda*, to make money, but these themes don't make money because it is what people want to see, it is because of some weird agenda, that is meant to make money but.....I'm confused.
> 
> The public wants to see more diversity and the writers and producers are responding by showing more diversity.


Of COURSE they are! Don't you know that "Hollywood" is sending messages and "the media" is responsible for the moral decline of our world??


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> Of COURSE they are! Don't you know that "Hollywood" is sending messages and "the media" is responsible for the moral decline of our world??


Yes, I get it. I've been on the Super Secret Gay Advisory Board for decades. :grin2:

What always AMAZES me is that these people who have money actually give their money to the people who make movies using our evil plan! It is almost as if those people just actually wanted to see more inclusion!!!

It works great for me. The more turnovers I get, the more toaster ovens.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

frusdil said:


> No she wasn't. There is nothing a woman could do to "turn" me. Absolutely no desire to put my hands on a woman in a sexual way.


Generally speaking I believe that as a society for whatever reason we simply don't think women know what they want. If your lady leaves you or cheats on you for someone else then it must obviously be a situation where she was seduced or pursued relentlessly. We tend to minimize the fact that it was a choice they made....or...that it may have even been them that did the pursuing. Look I'm not trying to sit here and make people who have gone through the pain of infidelity feel worse. But....some of the things we believe about women who stray I simply don't believe to be true. I don't think women who cheat need to be relentlessly pursued, this is coming from someone who had married mistresses. I also think most people we would consider players simply aren't willing to put in the effort to relentlessly pursue or turn anyone if that person is being difficult. I don't doubt the affair. What I am saying is when she was approached, she was immediately excited and turned on by the thought of it. Thats why it ended up the way it did. She did not need to be turned or convinced. She was open to it. She simply needed to be presented with the opportunity. It would not have worked on someone that wasn't interested from the get go. Just my opinion of course....


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, I get it. I've been on the Super Secret Gay Advisory Board for decades. :grin2:
> 
> What always AMAZES me is that these people who have money actually give their money to the people who make movies using our evil plan! It is almost as if those people just actually wanted to see more inclusion!!!
> 
> It works great for me. The more turnovers I get, the more toaster ovens.


Well whatever. I did not like the scene Ellis refers to either... but did not even notice the relationship "insert". I just thought a lot of that movie was hamfisted.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

My views on gay rights have shifted dramatically over my lifetime, which is amazing considering I was raised as a southern baptist in the deep south. Being gay was considered a really bad thing....unless of course you were the choir director. Or that Uncle that always dressed really nice but never had a girlfriend, or that aunt that never had boyfriends, and even a bit of a beard, but had a "friend" she lived with. Or sadly in my case uncle Jo Jo, who died of a mysterious illness in the 80s. Turns out it was AIDS, and even coming from a family of bible thumping baptists we all knew these people were gay and we loved them anyway. At some point I realized I already have all these gay people in my life that I was perfectly fine with. My views started to really change at that point. 

I do think that whatever scenes that are in movies should be age appropriate, but don't think for a second your kids don't know what gay is and that its all new to them when they see it on the big screen. Even as kids in many cases we can already tell the other kids that are probably going to become gay adults. I guess for those that argue that its being pushed, we already see it anyway. I think people don't want to see it because they don't like it. I am man enough to admit I do not want to see two men kissing onscreen. I don't mind gay characters but the love scenes are a bit much for me. Call me unprogressive if you must, but I can't find something visually appealing that doesn't appeal to me. I know this is the opposite of what I said in some ways, but to me being okay with someones sexual orientation and being okay with watching them make out are two very different things. I wouldn't be turned on by a love scene with two fat people either. Love scenes that are sexy to me are ones that have people in them that I find sexy. Its nothing more or less than that.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> My views on gay rights have shifted dramatically over my lifetime, which is amazing considering I was raised as a southern baptist in the deep south. Being gay was considered a really bad thing....unless of course you were the choir director. Or that Uncle that always dressed really nice but never had a girlfriend, or that aunt that never had boyfriends, and even a bit of a beard, but had a "friend" she lived with. Or sadly in my case uncle Jo Jo, who died of a mysterious illness in the 80s. Turns out it was AIDS, and even coming from a family of bible thumping baptists we all knew these people were gay and we loved them anyway. At some point I realized I already have all these gay people in my life that I was perfectly fine with. My views started to really change at that point.
> 
> I do think that whatever scenes that are in movies should be age appropriate, but don't think for a second your kids don't know what gay is and that its all new to them when they see it on the big screen. Even as kids in many cases we can already tell the other kids that are probably going to become gay adults. I guess for those that argue that its being pushed, we already see it anyway. I think people don't want to see it because they don't like it. I am man enough to admit I do not want to see two men kissing onscreen. I don't mind gay characters but the love scenes are a bit much for me. Call me unprogressive if you must, but I can't find something visually appealing that doesn't appeal to me. I know this is the opposite of what I said in some ways, but to me being okay with someones sexual orientation and being okay with watching them make out are two very different things. I wouldn't be turned on by a love scene with two fat people either. Love scenes that are sexy to me are ones that have people in them that I find sexy. Its nothing more or less than that.


I’ve known gay people who feel the same. They feel repulsed by seeing hetero sex encounters, which are everywhere. So they are stuck with just turning their head or closing their eyes until the gross part is over.

I was with a group of friends at a party at a hotel once and one of them had a room. We all went back up to the room and were laughing and joking and someone turned on the TV. They immediately went to the porn channel to continue joking around (we were not “that” kind of friends. It was purely joshing around and tuned off quickly before anyone got any crazy ideas). While it was on, there was a flash of two women smashing their boobs together, and my gay guy friend in the group went “oh ew...just...can we turn it off please? I don’t want to see that”.

He didn’t say it with a tone of whiny disgust. Just an even, normal tone. In other words, it just came out of him naturally. He wasn’t trying to be “the gay dude” and add to the joking around. He honestly just thought it was ew.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I have a difficult time believing that anything trumps profit in Hollywood, so I assume they are making their best guess as to what people want to see. 

I don't personally like gay romance in movies, in the sense that I feel no connection to it at all. That's OK, if its too major a theme, I can watch something else (preferably with giant robots and space ships....)

Hollywood has a tendency to try t have "something for everyone", in order to increase sales so that may be all that there is. 



EllisRedding said:


> I do believe part of it just comes down to a smaller segment being the loudest (which gives off a bigger representation than there actually is).
> 
> Funny, the CW network did these promo videos for some of their shows where the actors stressed support for all races, genders, etc... Go on to read the comments section, and there sure seemed like a lot of angry people over this. It wasn't what you think (people against the message). It was actually the opposite, the people making the loudest noise were those claiming the actors and network were hypocrites b/c there weren't enough gay characters in the shows ...
> 
> However, I do think there is a push (whether right or wrong, each person can decide) to push more gay characters (or have token "gay" scenes just so it can be crossed off a list) in media


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> There is a popular theory that everyone is somewhere on the spectrum of orientation fluidity. Whatever. Seems unimportant to me. What het women have, that het men don't is the perception TO MEN that woman on woman is hot.



If woman on woman is hot to men, why is the same not true for women? (That men on men is hot).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Generally speaking I believe that as a society for whatever reason we simply don't think women know what they want. If your lady leaves you or cheats on you for someone else then it must obviously be a situation where she was seduced or pursued relentlessly. We tend to minimize the fact that it was a choice they made....or...that it may have even been them that did the pursuing. Look I'm not trying to sit here and make people who have gone through the pain of infidelity feel worse. But....some of the things we believe about women who stray I simply don't believe to be true. I don't think women who cheat need to be relentlessly pursued, this is coming from someone who had married mistresses. I also think most people we would consider players simply aren't willing to put in the effort to relentlessly pursue or turn anyone if that person is being difficult. I don't doubt the affair. What I am saying is when she was approached, she was immediately excited and turned on by the thought of it. Thats why it ended up the way it did. She did not need to be turned or convinced. She was open to it. She simply needed to be presented with the opportunity. It would not have worked on someone that wasn't interested from the get go. Just my opinion of course....


Exactly. She was open to it. Therefore she was not straight.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Funny, I think for me I would view it worse if my W cheated on me with another dude vs a female. With a female, I could at least somewhat "justify" that my W had a different sexual preference from what I could provide (although I do agree with you it would have me questioning things from the beginning). Cheating with another dude would just have more of a "you are simply not good enough" vibe.
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, there is no coming back. Cheat, relationship is instantly over, move on...



After giving it some thought (once today, and twice yesterday....) I think I would welcome it if my wife cheated with a female...(provided everything else stayed the same).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Huh, I didn't say that. I said ultimately money will talk. The Captain Marvel gal is saying that now is the time for Marvel to strike fast with LGBT superheroes. If Marvel feels there is money to be made, then yes, you will see more characters pushed. If not, then it will be relegated to more of these smaller moments.


I watched Captain Marvel next to two socially awkward lesbians.

They were very polite and I asked the one sitting next to me if they were Marvel (comic) fans.

The young woman didn't know **** about Marvel's characters or storylines. They just came for a woman character..... Sad.

I don't care what folks want to do with other consenting adults and I believe government can f off about all of it.

I also have negative interest in homosexual storylines. No interest whatsoever. Most have the same views so the majority of homosexual storylines are agenda driven, not profit motivated.

That scene in Endgame was stupid and was not related to the story line at all.

Felt tacked on as an afterthought.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I watched Captain Marvel next to two socially awkward lesbians.
> 
> They were very polite and I asked the one sitting next to me if they were Marvel (comic) fans.
> 
> ...


Yup, that was the point. The directors threw it in their as their attempt to be "woke" yet it actually faced backlash from those they were trying to appease lol.

The whole scene itself was pointless (couldve been talking about puppies and I would have said the same thing)


----------



## Zodiac (Dec 7, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> If woman on woman is hot to men, why is the same not true for women? (That men on men is hot).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've read several articles where straight women talk about gay porn being a turn on and even shemale porn because of the taboo-ness. I have also seen several whisper threads were Young men watching gay porn doesn't make them gay. I just think society is trying to catch up sexually.

Cheating is Cheating regardless.


----------

