# When is it too much?



## NotMyLife86 (Jan 26, 2013)

I've been reading posts on this forum for months now, to be honest. It's taken me this long to come to a place in my head where I can ask for some advice/help. So, here goes.

My husband and I have been married for 4 years. We have a 2 year old and a 5 week old. In June, I noticed a strange number on our cell phone bill. I confronted him, just curious as to who he was calling so regularly. He'd just started a new job and was switching shifts. I was told that it was his supervisor, they were talking work/hunting/fishing and that kind of thing. He'd been "good", so to speak, so I left it alone. Perhaps it was blind hope, because I was already aware of my pregnancy, but I wanted to believe it was true. Fast forward a few weeks and he comes home and tells me that my mom contacted him. She and I are close, we as a family share a cell phone plan for economical reason ($10 a line vs. $60.) She just sent him a text, asked him about the same number, and he went with the same story. Work supervisor, buddies, like same things (hunting, fishing, camping, etc.) The guy is "new" to the area so they talk about where to go, etc. Anyway, he tells me all this and maintains it. I was taking my son to visit my parents the next day so I was prepared to defend him because it seemed strange that my mom hadn't called me, especially since he and I had already talked about it. Turns out ... he'd lied - BIG time. Co-worker was actually a waitress from our local bar. He'd gotten her number several months prior. Thousands and thousands of text messages and several hours of phone calls later - the truth comes out. My parents went sort of private investigator in all of this and did a reverse person search. I confronted him with it, without being too obvious, and he maintained his story. So I came at him with, "Okay, so, do you know *insert OW's name here*?" And he just paused, and said ... "Yes." Cue my instant irritation and non-stop slew of not very nice conversation. I decided to stay with my parents for a while. I approached him several times for answers and was constantly given, "I don't know. I don't remember. I'm not sure." He's insistent that he never physically engaged with her in anyway, aside from the night he got her number when he "hugged" her good-bye. Let me note that the night he got her number I didn't even know he was at a bar, and had he told me - I wouldn't have minded. But I was home alone with our son, much like I am everyday. Anyway, he never was very forthcoming. But he started going to therapy, and he wanted to "make it work", and etc.

Flash forward to December. I give birth to our second son. I'm still living with my parents, but we're "working" on things. It seems positive. I'm finally getting him to talk to me and give me some actual answers and feedback not just the "I'm sorry" bit. 

Speed up another two weeks and I get a text from a guy friend. "Can you call me?" Hadn't heard from him in a while, he was friends with my husband first. I give him a call. He asks me what's going on with husband and I. I told him that I knew husband had talked to him and that he didn't need to be asking me that. He says, "I know you've been hopeful things will work out, but he's doing it again." Instantly my heart rate increases. I said, "He's still talking to her?" He asked me "who" her was. I told him the name I knew and he was like, "I've never heard of her. He told me it was *insert different name here.*" And I'm fuming. I called and asked him what he was doing, he says, "Sitting at home." Well, he was obviously driving. I can hear the car. He finally says, "I'm looking for friend-who-called." Suspicious that he's out searching for this person whose telling me this, right? Well, with the first girl - it was just talking. Supposedly with this girl, it was more. I called her and she acted like she didn't know who I was and all that kind of business but the next day she was texting the friend's wife saying how bad she felt, how it was a mistake, how my kids deserve their parents together, etc. His wife sent me screen shots. So I sent her a text and said, "Can you tell me the truth now?" She says everything that she says to friend's wife. Very forthcoming. It happened on-and-off for a week, she's very sorry, he took her to work one day, etc. Sent me a screen shot of a message from him talking about needing condoms/beer before she came over. I confront him with all of this, very angry. He calls her while he's with me and says, "Quit doing this. Tell my wife this didn't happen." She says, "Are you kidding me?" Then she blows up my phone with texts about leaving her coat at my house, having a raccoon from trapping in her truck with him, etc. He denies it - says she was actually sleeping with friend who called me and they're doing this to cover their tracks. Extreme, no? Then bombs me with this whole thing about "Fake-a-Text" and how they're making up these convos and since we're separated his friend doesn't figure it matters. It was a LOT to take in. 

I decide that I don't trust friend and want to decide to divorce/not divorce on my own terms but that my kids deserve a mom who respects herself and is okay with whatever decision she makes. So ... I start asking a lot of questions and while I'm asking questions I just find that the lies add up. They're little, but they're always there. He lies about smoking, he lies about chewing, he lies about where he is, who he has talked to, etc. He admits to being a compulsive liar. He says it's because he "doesn't want to upset me." What upsets me most is being lied to! He also has lied in the past. I never viewed him as jealous until now, I guess. But I've given up friendships with really close guy friends because they make him uncomfortable. He, on the other hand, starts NEW friendships and willingly hides them. The first girl was in his phone AS "Eddie - Second Shift Supervisor." EDDIE was completely non-existent. He also had a "friend" early in our relationship who sent him some really suggestive pictures. I'll give him this, he didn't ask for them because she had that all written out in the e-mail. Aside from that, the girl is just nasty. But still. He also did a lot of MySpace flirting/Hot-Or-Not posting and e-mailing/etc. Every time, I find out about it. But back then, I figured he was just young and dumb and "talking" wasn't harmful. Well, it is harmful when you're married with children and neglecting the relationship that you promised to tenderly give attention to. And speculation, whether true or not, is also harmful. 

What I can't decide is when enough is enough ... I care about the guy, for whatever reason. I married him, I had children with him, and he's GREAT when he's "on." But there are so many indiscretions, whether they be big or small. I need to come to some kind of conclusion while it's still not overwhelming affecting my child. (The 2 year old.) I won't move back home to "try" unless I know I'm staying there. That wouldn't do my son any good. And right now, with a 5 week old, is not the time to be overly stressed because of something like this. And I need to determine if this pattern for lying/infidelity is really something he can STOP and if it's something I can get over. Because right now, every little bad thing that has happened finds it's way into my mind and I feel like I've been hit with a brick. 

Advice? 

**Sorry so long!**


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your husband is a serial cheater. He has not stopped cheating. He will not tell you the truth about what went on. Thus he is no remorseful. He's a patholigical liar as well.

You can be sure that he was sleeping with the waitress and this most recent woman. How many are there that you have not found out about?

I see nothing here that would indicate you have a marriage worth putting back together. You husband has never been 'in' the marriage.

ETA: His pathological lying and serial cheating come from the same source. I would not be surprised to find out that he has serious mental health issues and these are just the tip of the ice burg.


.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

NotMyLife86 said:


> *What I can't decide is when enough is enough ... *I care about the guy, for whatever reason. I married him, I had children with him, and he's GREAT when he's "on." But there are so many indiscretions, whether they be big or small. *I need to come to some kind of conclusion *while it's still not overwhelming affecting my child. (The 2 year old.) I won't move back home to "try" unless I know I'm staying there. That wouldn't do my son any good. And right now, with a 5 week old, is not the time to be overly stressed because of something like this. *And I need to determine if this pattern for lying/infidelity is really something he can STOP* and if it's something I can get over. Because right now, every little bad thing that has happened finds it's way into my mind and I feel like I've been hit with a brick.
> 
> Advice?
> 
> **Sorry so long!**


I'm sure he CAN stop, but he does not WANT to stop.

He shows no sign of wanting to give up his cheating lifestyle, other than saying so.

Cheaters are liars. So him saying he wants to give up the cheating is meaningless. He loves you, loves the kids, loves the way it makes him look like a respectable family man.

He also likes other women, a little variety.

He wants both and he doesn't see why he can't have it. He's pretty sure you won't do anything about it. You moving out actually helps him in the cheating department, he brings them over to your old bed with condoms and beer.

My guess is you only know about the tip of the iceberg. Probably he's always been doing this and you only just found out by accident recently.


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## NotMyLife86 (Jan 26, 2013)

These responses are sort of what I hoped for, to be honest. I need to see that he's an idiot that can't just stop in order for me to be able to move forward. I feel so duped for buying into it while we were dating. I love my children - I'd never give them up for anything - but it certainly would've been nice for ME to have never been in this mess because I'd removed myself BEFORE marriage. Thanks for the real responses.


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## ImperfectMomma (May 2, 2012)

I had a very similar situation. He lied so much that the MC went to his supervisor because he had never seen anyone lie like that. I think that they may never change but if it's possible, it won't happen without counseling. I am amazed at how much a lie kills a relationship. It's too bad that the liars never realize that. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Well, at least you know the kids are yours. As Ele said, he's a serial cheater and should you split with him, he'll be cheating on the one he's with now, in less than six months.
The lying didn't just start recently, either.
Sorry you are here.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

If my wife moved out and took the kids, I would be a mess. No way I could think about picking up other women and bringing them back to our house to bang them in our bed. I'd be terrified of a divorce and what it would do to the kids. I'd come clean and beg for forgiveness in an instant.

Your husband doesn't seem all that phased by it. He continues to lie about it and shows no real remorse. Moved on from the woman you caught him with to another woman. Or maybe he's juggling two (or more) now. I only know one way to interpret these actions.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Yeah. You'll never get a moment's peace with him. He's a serial cheat and will keep your blood pressure high and your heart broken if you stay. Sad but true.


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## NotMyLife86 (Jan 26, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Yeah. You'll never get a moment's peace with him. He's a serial cheat and will keep your_* blood pressure high*_ and your heart broken if you stay. Sad but true.


To the bolded - couldn't be MORE true! In fact, all this stress went as far as screwing with my pregnant body. My blood pressure and anxiety got so bad, they had me deliver early because of how it was affecting my health. 

I may be the exception to the rule here, but reading that he's a serial cheat is sort of empowering me.


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

I agree with Ele completely. If that second woman was just an elaborate lie, then your parents wouldn't be able to find her number on the bill...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boogie110 (Aug 3, 2012)

Hi. It's very frightening when you have 2 tiny beings that rely upon you and they will rely upon you forever...in some way.

You are being an amazing parent...your husband? A good father is not a cheating husband. My husband tried to tell my therapist he was such a good father, when he was severely cheating on me, and my therapist slapped him a good one and said, No, you cannot say that. You cannot be a good father and be cheating on your wife...He said it better, though.

If he wants to work it out, he will tell you everything, either through therapy or alone. You will never know everything, there is too much, but if he can tell you 95% (serial cheaters - if he is a serial cheater - have bad memories only because there is so much they have done).

If you can start counseling, then maybe you can get him to come to your sessions and possibly with a lot of time he may open up. I had to threaten mine to get trickle truth for 3 months - things still come up because I think of things and then he remembers. Again, they have bad memories because serial cheaters have done so much. With serial cheaters - It's not just one or two affairs - you can remember all sorts of detail then, but if its dozens or more (I include one night stands here also as affairs) it's almost impossible without intervention from a professional therapist.

You have amazing parents - be thankful, some us have parents that are too old or just can't even handle their own lives. You will know if it is enough or not when he decides not to or to attend counseling - if you choose, which I suggest, or if he starts coming clean all the way. But it is tough enough to admit to one cheat, let a lone a lot...They want to save their butts, they are in a high of getting away with it (even if they don't admit it), they are in a high of getting women (doesn't matter if it is free or not with a lot of men who cheat often). It's so hard and demoralizing. But I'm so happy you have great parents. Try the counseling and invite him. He WILL lie, just so you know, (they do not want to be shamed or feel bad about what they have done to you) but it's worth a try until or if he is ever ready to come back. Then you will need a therapist who deals with serial cheaters that won't let your spouse B.S. them.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

NotMyLife86 said:


> I may be the exception to the rule here, but reading that he's a serial cheat is sort of empowering me.


I don't think you're the exception. There's a strange sort of peace that comes with knowing a) that it's absolutely nothing you ever did, and b) there's absolutely nothing that you can really do to change it. BS's want so much to hope that they won't be betrayed again and expend so much emotional energy on being vigilant and feeling desperate. If you are sure that it will happen and that you can't stop it, all that desperation dries up. The despair you feel is over the state of your life, not the uncertainty of your spouse's commitment.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Serial cheater, patologial liar... get out, friend. You will suffer as nobody is you stay.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

PureLove said:


> My WH had at least 12 short affairs (he says he doesn't remember exactly how many since most were ONS) and a serious A that lasted 18 months with an OW he was in love with. Is there hope for us? He says he'll never cheat on me again but I have no idea if he is capable of being faithful after having spent so many years cheating and lying. Don't sugarcoat it for me please, if there is no hope I want to know now!


My understanding is that, for a serial cheat, the lying is a way of life and the cheating is just one manifestation of the lying. Because of this, he may stop cheating for a while, but the lying will be there and the cheating will probably resurface. It is a form of pathology.


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## NotMyLife86 (Jan 26, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> My understanding is that, for a serial cheat, the lying is a way of life and the cheating is just one manifestation of the lying. Because of this, he may stop cheating for a while, but the lying will be there and the cheating will probably resurface. It is a form of pathology.


This makes great sense since I've seen this so many times in my relationship. First it's little lies, then it's the big stuff - like another girl, whether physical or flirty texts or whatever. Good point.


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