# what next



## Jayb

I need a reminder of my opportunities at this time.

W and I attended MC for a few sessions, before W clearly and repeatedly stated that she holds no hope for our marriage. Just end it. She is unwilling to put in the work and effort to see if it can change her mind.

We are in a holding pattern for another 2 months before deciding whether to proceed with the D (we're at the mediation stage).

All I have asked for is time. My ultimate prayer is that our marriage be restored. 

Do I?

begin the 180 or Last Resort Technique due witnessing the doubts she has?

begin to detach at a faster clip and respect what she stated to me?

keep calm and live it day to day, realizing that R might not occur anytime soon, if at all?

Why I ask is that it's a fluid situation. My W is the typical WAW. And, it frustrates me that she won't let me improve our M because of being scared by the future and any change not lasting, etc.


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## Wildflower3

Begin 180 and LRT. 

Pushing adds pressure and pushes her away even more. Last time I did a status check with my STBXH was a month ago (wow does time fly! seems like it was just yesterday!) and it was full of "I don't love you", "I don't miss you", "I worry that if we try, we'll do the things that drive us both crazy". He also said he felt pressure again because of the status check. I said that we just learned all these tools that make a marriage work and I am willing to give it a go, but I realize that the decision has to belong to both of us. I told him I understood how he felt and what he wants. He got all upset, almost started to cry because it became more real. 

I continued my 180, full force, went dark except for matters regarding the kids, put an end to family dinners where he would come over and we'd all sit at the table together. Now, I text/email only regarding visits and exchanges. I do not initiate contact. When he visits, I leave to go to support group, run errands, or even sit at Starbucks until I know he's already put the kids down for bed and is ready to leave. It's been a month. Already, I feel so much better. Still have low points, but feel generally better. For the first time, yesterday morning, my ending marriage wasn't the first thing on my mind as I woke. It has taken 5 months, but small milestones mean so much!

If she initiates, you reciprocate and leave it at that.


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## Jayb

Wildflower3 said:


> Begin 180 and LRT.
> 
> Pushing adds pressure and pushes her away even more. Last time I did a status check with my STBXH was a month ago (wow does time fly! seems like it was just yesterday!) and it was full of "I don't love you", "I don't miss you", "I worry that if we try, we'll do the things that drive us both crazy". He also said he felt pressure again because of the status check. I said that we just learned all these tools that make a marriage work and I am willing to give it a go, but I realize that the decision has to belong to both of us. I told him I understood how he felt and what he wants. He got all upset, almost started to cry because it became more real.
> 
> I continued my 180, full force, went dark except for matters regarding the kids, put an end to family dinners where he would come over and we'd all sit at the table together. Now, I text/email only regarding visits and exchanges. I do not initiate contact. When he visits, I leave to go to support group, run errands, or even sit at Starbucks until I know he's already put the kids down for bed and is ready to leave. It's been a month. Already, I feel so much better. Still have low points, but feel generally better. For the first time, yesterday morning, my ending marriage wasn't the first thing on my mind as I woke. It has taken 5 months, but small milestones mean so much!
> 
> If she initiates, you reciprocate and leave it at that.


That is so scary. I can see me doing some of the 180, but not others. We are 6 months away from finalizing the divorce. It's something she wants, but not me. That being said, I do have my doubts.

You tell me if this sounds like a woman who is determined to D and is truly over us and that there is no hope:

Yesterday, in MC, she stated clearly and repeatedly that she was over us, and that she wants the M to end. I remained composed because I had expected this.

Next morning, she suggested we (including children) take a family vacation over the summer.

Either I am reading way too much into it, and she is indeed wanting to go as friends, or she isn't admitting there may be a possibility of R, sometime later.


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## Wildflower3

Honestly, I wouldn't read into it as a possibility of R in the future. All I can say is that maybe she just wants everything to be the same, just not married. I think she wants to maintain some normalcy and keep everything looking good for the kids' sake. Plus, you will always be an important part of her life, you are the father of her children. As long as your children are breathing, you will be in each other's lives. Plus, maybe this is alleviating some of her guilt in being the WAW? I'm only offering these opinions because our stories are somewhat similar. My STBXH wants the kids to have parents that can be in the same room together who can maintain a close relationship. He wanted the kids to see that Mommy and Daddy can still be happy for their sake. 

If you read into everything she does as having something to do with a possible R, you will drive yourself insane. Trust me, I was there.


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## Jayb

Wildflower3 said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't read into it as a possibility of R in the future. All I can say is that maybe *she just wants everything to be the same, just not married*. I think she wants to *maintain some normalcy and keep everything looking good for the kids' sake.* *Plus, you will always be an important part of her life, you are the father of her children. As long as your children are breathing, you will be in each other's live*s. Plus, maybe this is alleviating some of her guilt in being the WAW? I'm only offering these opinions because our stories are somewhat similar. My STBXH wants the kids to have parents that can be in the same room together who can maintain a close relationship. He wanted the kids to see that Mommy and Daddy can still be happy for their sake.
> 
> If you read into everything she does as having something to do with a possible R, you will drive yourself insane. Trust me, I was there.


You are accurate. And tbh, I've given up on overanalyzing everything. I just thought it odd that she would suggest it. I told her we need to start communicating more directly because neither of us should misinterpret "hints."

That being said, what if she has doubts the closer we get? Because she may have doubts yet want to proceed. At what point do I realize that she has serious doubts about ending the M?

I guess I'll come to that bridge if I get there. LOL.


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## Sparkles422

Jayb said:


> You are accurate. And tbh, I've given up on overanalyzing everything. I just thought it odd that she would suggest it. I told her we need to start communicating more directly because neither of us should misinterpret "hints."
> 
> That being said, what if she has doubts the closer we get? Because she may have doubts yet want to proceed. At what point do I realize that she has serious doubts about ending the M?
> 
> I guess I'll come to that bridge if I get there. LOL.


It's very difficult to let go. That's what I did last February when I discovered the EA. I began to let go. It was very very difficult but if someone doesn't want you, there is absolutely nothing you can do. My ex was in a fog (since then has come out of it, read other recon story). But I let him wander his path and I began mine. I had NC for 6 months after divorce and the house sold. 

From his story, he was extremely miserable and grasping at fantasy as a crutch for fear of being alone and not having the self esteem to do it alone. I remained alone without dating, simply going through the pain. But I came out the other end with so much more than I went in.

My prayers are with you: for strength and purpose. Whatever you are to learn from this experience, I wish you success. I found myself in mine. And the miracle is we are both working on reconciliation almost one year to the day later.


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## Jayb

Sparkles422 said:


> It's very difficult to let go. That's what I did last February when I discovered the EA. I began to let go. It was very very difficult but if someone doesn't want you, there is absolutely nothing you can do. My ex was in a fog (since then has come out of it, read other recon story). But I let him wander his path and I began mine. I had NC for 6 months after divorce and the house sold.
> 
> From his story, he was extremely miserable and grasping at fantasy as a crutch for fear of being alone and not having the self esteem to do it alone. I remained alone without dating, simply going through the pain. But I came out the other end with so much more than I went in.
> 
> My prayers are with you: for strength and purpose. Whatever you are to learn from this experience, I wish you success. I found myself in mine. And the miracle is we are both working on reconciliation almost one year to the day later.


Thank you. I feel so bad right now. Embarking on this, while being friends for our children, as well as holding out hope, as well as changing ME for ME.


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## cabin fever

When I was going through the D, my wife was pretty checked out and I finally accepted it, and said good bye. It was hard, but its the BEST thing I ever did. 

I was still nice, and civil (we were both still in the house) but I did my own thing. I was losing weight, and having fun. didn't hurt that others were now noticing me, and that really stroked the ego. 

after 2 months of that, she did a complete 180. 

My advice is
1. Worry about yourself, not the marriage. 

2. prepare yourself for the divorce, 

3. When she brings up the vacation, politely tell her, you don't think its a good idea. by engaging her, she is never going to realize what life will be like as a divorced woman. She is going to say something along the lines as its good for the kids. BullShiet, the kids need to get used to having divorced parents, not parents who are divorced, but to scared to admit they are divorced, and don't want to be alone. 

4. Tell her you love her, and care about her, but you need to distance yourself from her, and DO IT! Give her what she wants. The only way she is going to realize how different its going to be, is by having a different life, not with you. 

5. Become a better person. This is probably the most important part. She still thinks that everything will be the same old way, if you get back together with her. You need to change, in order for her to see things will be different. What ever you would do in the past, DON'T DO IT! She obviously doesn't want the way things were. So come up with a different mind set! in the past, when you fought, did you pursue her, and try to comfort her? I bet you did, now, you need to do the opposite. for 2 reasons, 1. she needs to see your different, 2, she needs to realize she can't have you when she needs you, if your not married. 

6. MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!, Quit chasing her, or mentioning divorce, marriage, reconcile, or anything related. 

I only posted her, cause I see myself in your shoes. I really wanted to save my marriage (mine had a PA btw) but I had to be willing to let it go, before I could save it. 

There is no doubt you love her. When you love something, you have to let it go, if it comes back, its yours, if not, it wasn't meant to be. 

good luck. I am pulling for you.


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## Jayb

cabin fever said:


> When I was going through the D, my wife was pretty checked out and I finally accepted it, and said good bye. It was hard, but its the BEST thing I ever did.
> 
> I was still nice, and civil (we were both still in the house) but I did my own thing. I was losing weight, and having fun. didn't hurt that others were now noticing me, and that really stroked the ego.
> 
> after 2 months of that, she did a complete 180.
> 
> My advice is
> 1. Worry about yourself, not the marriage.
> 
> 2. prepare yourself for the divorce,
> 
> 3. When she brings up the vacation, politely tell her, you don't think its a good idea. by engaging her, she is never going to realize what life will be like as a divorced woman. She is going to say something along the lines as its good for the kids. BullShiet, the kids need to get used to having divorced parents, not parents who are divorced, but to scared to admit they are divorced, and don't want to be alone.
> 
> 4. Tell her you love her, and care about her, but you need to distance yourself from her, and DO IT! Give her what she wants. The only way she is going to realize how different its going to be, is by having a different life, not with you.
> 
> 5. Become a better person. This is probably the most important part. She still thinks that everything will be the same old way, if you get back together with her. You need to change, in order for her to see things will be different. What ever you would do in the past, DON'T DO IT! She obviously doesn't want the way things were. So come up with a different mind set! in the past, when you fought, did you pursue her, and try to comfort her? I bet you did, now, you need to do the opposite. for 2 reasons, 1. she needs to see your different, 2, she needs to realize she can't have you when she needs you, if your not married.
> 
> 6. MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!, Quit chasing her, or mentioning divorce, marriage, reconcile, or anything related.
> 
> I only posted her, cause I see myself in your shoes. I really wanted to save my marriage (mine had a PA btw) but I had to be willing to let it go, before I could save it.
> 
> There is no doubt you love her. When you love something, you have to let it go, if it comes back, its yours, if not, it wasn't meant to be.
> 
> good luck. I am pulling for you.


I appreciate this! So, you're back with her?

I am 3 weeks into MY new change. Already lost 20 lbs, with 10-15 more to go. Started back at church. Looking for friends, as I was pretty much a hermit, and looking back at some hobbies. In addition to being with the children, which is pretty much 50-50 co-parenting.

All of your advice resonates, yet scares the crap out of me. Maybe right now, I'm too caught up in it. 

#1 and #5 are what I am actively doing. #'s 2 and 6 are close behind. #4 can be accomplished in baby steps - not initiating any contact, not blurring the days when either of us has the children. #3 is tricky because it's a place I want to go and is way more affordable with her. 

We'll be around each other more frequently beacuse of the children. But, other than that, what is the point? She's determined to leave me no matter what, right? At least she has not directly said otherwise. 

From what I understand you to mean: We are tangled now. And while we both are hurting in different ways, that hurt will remain and healing will be delayed by continuing with the status quo.


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## Jayb

Sparkles422 said:


> It's very difficult to let go. That's what I did last February when I discovered the EA. I began to let go. It was very very difficult but if someone doesn't want you, there is absolutely nothing you can do. My ex was in a fog (since then has come out of it, read other recon story). But I let him wander his path and I began mine. I had NC for 6 months after divorce and the house sold.
> 
> From his story, he was extremely miserable and grasping at fantasy as a crutch for fear of being alone and not having the self esteem to do it alone. I remained alone without dating, simply going through the pain. But I came out the other end with so much more than I went in.
> 
> My prayers are with you: for strength and purpose. Whatever you are to learn from this experience, I wish you success. I found myself in mine. And the miracle is we are both working on reconciliation almost one year to the day later.


Are children involved? I ask that because I assume that any finalization with us would not yield to quick R due to dragging our small children back into this.

Which is why I want to remain separated and give proper time/work before we make this serious decision.


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## cabin fever

Yes I am still with her. I have my good days, and bad days. More good days, then bad now, so its a step in the right direction. What I told you, is exactly what I did. And I know exactly the pain, hurt, embarresment, fear, and helplessness you're going through. Most everyone on here does. 

As far the vacation, just remember, you can always go to the place you want to go at a later time. Don't do it, as an excuse to see your wife. It will end up hurting you in the long run. Do Something else that is more affordable if you want. Now I bet your saying, "well if I tell her I don't want to take the vacation with her, it will screw any chance of getting back together", Right? WRONG! She needs to look at things from a different prespective. One of my favorite sayings, is when you hit rock bottom there is only way to go from there, UP!

Changing yourself, if the absolute best thing you can do. You become a better person. She sees the change, she will acknowledge the change. THEN is when you see the chance at saving the marriage. 

My biggest weakness is communication. I am a quiet person (untill something, or someone pisses me off) I have been FORCING myself to talk. At first i did it to prove to my wife I could hold a conversation (which was the wrong reason to change) over time I realized I liked the new me. I now enjoy talking to people.  Thats just a small example of what I am talking about (no pun intended) 

HOBBIES are a great way to get your mind off things. There has to be something you always wanted to do, but didnt have the time or energy? NOW IS THE TIME! Its also a great way to meet new people (ie friends) My kid wanted to get an RC car. Well guess what, we have 3 of them now, and a RC boat, and Helicopter, and 3 planes. I treated myself to some new clothes. Changed my haircut, and "look" at life. 

I think the end result, is winning your wife back? You know how to do it, and you know what WONT work. Sometimes choosing the right thing vs choosing what your heart says, is 2 different things. 

Preparring yourself for divorce is beneficial for a # of reasons. 1. face it, its a very good possibility. 
2. when you embrace it, you will likely have changed for the better, which means your wife will notice. 

It sucks azz man. NONE of us want to be here. 

Just keep focusing on yourself. 

One thing that helped me when I was down, was constantly telling myself "I deserve better!" So do you! Your kids deserve (2) HAPPY PARENTS. You want your wife to be happy, correct? You want to be happy, correct? You can not change your wife, but you can change you! Once that happens, the rest of the pieces will fall into place. :smthumbup:


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## Sparkles422

Jayb said:


> Are children involved? I ask that because I assume that any finalization with us would not yield to quick R due to dragging our small children back into this.
> 
> Which is why I want to remain separated and give proper time/work before we make this serious decision.


No, there are no children involved fortunately. However, it still doesn't change the fact that now you have to take care of you. Listen to all that has been written, it is everything you need to know. Do this for yourself, not for anyone else. Your children will adapt (I am a product of two divorces / parents-wise) as long as you continue to be their Dad and haven't changed how you are there for them, they will feel secure. That is the important issue for them that their world is not crumbling but will continue in spite of Mom and Dad living apart. In time, they will get used to this if this is the case.

Do the 180, don't engage any longer, ask yourself what is right for you before committing to anything. Don't change for anyone else other than yourself, that will be real change not something that was forced on you. 

You are a decent human being and if there are things that need tweaking do them but really do them for yourself because you want to improve yourself for yourself.

Let go of the rest. Pray, build a support network, share with others, find other interests...live in spite of this.


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## Jayb

cabin fever said:


> Yes I am still with her. I have my good days, and bad days. More good days, then bad now, so its a step in the right direction. What I told you, is exactly what I did. And I know exactly the pain, hurt, embarresment, fear, and helplessness you're going through. Most everyone on here does.
> 
> As far the vacation, just remember, you can always go to the place you want to go at a later time. Don't do it, as an excuse to see your wife. It will end up hurting you in the long run. Do Something else that is more affordable if you want. Now I bet your saying, "well if I tell her I don't want to take the vacation with her, it will screw any chance of getting back together", Right? WRONG! She needs to look at things from a different prespective. One of my favorite sayings, is when you hit rock bottom there is only way to go from there, UP!
> 
> Changing yourself, if the absolute best thing you can do. You become a better person. She sees the change, she will acknowledge the change. THEN is when you see the chance at saving the marriage.
> 
> My biggest weakness is communication. I am a quiet person (untill something, or someone pisses me off) I have been FORCING myself to talk. At first i did it to prove to my wife I could hold a conversation (which was the wrong reason to change) over time I realized I liked the new me. I now enjoy talking to people.  Thats just a small example of what I am talking about (no pun intended)
> 
> HOBBIES are a great way to get your mind off things. There has to be something you always wanted to do, but didnt have the time or energy? NOW IS THE TIME! Its also a great way to meet new people (ie friends) My kid wanted to get an RC car. Well guess what, we have 3 of them now, and a RC boat, and Helicopter, and 3 planes. I treated myself to some new clothes. Changed my haircut, and "look" at life.
> 
> I think the end result, is winning your wife back? You know how to do it, and you know what WONT work. Sometimes choosing the right thing vs choosing what your heart says, is 2 different things.
> 
> Preparring yourself for divorce is beneficial for a # of reasons. 1. face it, its a very good possibility.
> 2. when you embrace it, you will likely have changed for the better, which means your wife will notice.
> 
> It sucks azz man. NONE of us want to be here.
> 
> Just keep focusing on yourself.
> 
> One thing that helped me when I was down, was constantly telling myself "I deserve better!" So do you! Your kids deserve (2) HAPPY PARENTS. You want your wife to be happy, correct? You want to be happy, correct? You can not change your wife, but you can change you! Once that happens, the rest of the pieces will fall into place. :smthumbup:



Wow, we sound really alike. I appreciate your insight. I may be farther along detaching than I may have lead on due to emotions. The vacation thing was just that. An awesome place to visit. No thought whatsoever about being around her, because we are around each other, most weekends for at least a couple of hours (activities with children). Even then, it's more enjoying company, not pining away.

Yeah, do I want the marriage saved? Yes, but I experience so much trauma emotionally, months ago when I first heard the ILYBINILWY, and after me filing for divorce. 

My wife said I'm on this path and may not want her back. YEP! I have my doubts now and expect them to increase day by day. And, hello, here I am working on things, and she's not doing anything for herself. Why would I, as a new man, go back to her??

So, I can see both possibilties. Still processing them. It's all the effects of those possibilities that stir me emotionally. Past actvities, being single for a long time, living alone, budgeting, being independent, effects on children, etc.

If I understand you correctly, you were fully convinced and happy to move on without her. What made you accept her back into your life? For instance, my wife remains convinced to end our M now, but what are signs that she 100% wants to R? Or, is it pretty much direct pleading and direct communication that made you believe that she was honest in wanting to come back?


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## Jayb

Sparkles422 said:


> No, there are no children involved fortunately. However, it still doesn't change the fact that now you have to take care of you. Listen to all that has been written, it is everything you need to know. Do this for yourself, not for anyone else. Your children will adapt (I am a product of two divorces / parents-wise) as long as you continue to be their Dad and haven't changed how you are there for them, they will feel secure. That is the important issue for them that their world is not crumbling but will continue in spite of Mom and Dad living apart. In time, they will get used to this if this is the case.
> 
> Do the 180, don't engage any longer, ask yourself what is right for you before committing to anything. Don't change for anyone else other than yourself, that will be real change not something that was forced on you.
> 
> You are a decent human being and if there are things that need tweaking do them but really do them for yourself because you want to improve yourself for yourself.
> 
> Let go of the rest. Pray, build a support network, share with others, find other interests...live in spite of this.


Thank you. I'm 3 weeks into this. And yes, the past 2 have been attempting to be a man my wife could date, but she's not ready for that. She just "appreciated" it. Hey, no biggie. But hearing it's over, again, in MC, and her backing out of a commitment, hurts (a little less this time ) and now, I'm not sure what my next plan is. It was almost like another weight had been lifted.


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## cabin fever

DAM IT! i had a response typed up, and my PC FROZE. so my cliffs note version! 

I was never happy about the divorce (just like you) I was happy to quit hurting! 

Being scared of being alone is perfectly normal. I was too! Look at from a different angle. ITS NOT ALL BAD, focus on the good points. 

I don't know your wife so I can't say what she will do, to show a change of heart, but trust me.....you will know. (mine wrote me a big long letter, telling me what an idiot she was, and showed remorse, focused on me, not herself. 

That weight you feel lifted............is you starting to change. 

Do this tomorrow A.M. Wake up, and tell your self its Friday, and its going to be a great day. Put all your emotions aside, and focus on having a good day! NOTHING anyone says, or does tomorrow is going to bring you down! You deserve to be happy! Challange your self! Then do it again on Saturday. 

That weight you feel lifted........... is you you changing. 

You have changed already..........more so then you realize!


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## Jayb

cabin fever said:


> DAM IT! i had a response typed up, and my PC FROZE. so my cliffs note version!
> 
> I was never happy about the divorce (just like you) I was happy to quit hurting!
> 
> Being scared of being alone is perfectly normal. I was too! Look at from a different angle. ITS NOT ALL BAD, focus on the good points.
> 
> I don't know your wife so I can't say what she will do, to show a change of heart, but trust me.....you will know. (mine wrote me a big long letter, telling me what an idiot she was, and showed remorse, focused on me, not herself.
> 
> That weight you feel lifted............is you starting to change.
> 
> Do this tomorrow A.M. Wake up, and tell your self its Friday, and its going to be a great day. Put all your emotions aside, and focus on having a good day! NOTHING anyone says, or does tomorrow is going to bring you down! You deserve to be happy! Challange your self! Then do it again on Saturday.
> 
> That weight you feel lifted........... is you you changing.
> 
> You have changed already..........more so then you realize!


Thanks!!! This helps!! I know I have a place here at TAM where I can vent and learn from others. Be challenged to change. Be accountable.

Again, thank you.

I'll do so! Wait, even if my brackets are ruined tonight??? LOL!


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## cabin fever

LOL! my brackets are doing ok so far. 4/4! Syracuse is scaring me though!


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## Jayb

cabin fever said:


> DAM IT! i had a response typed up, and my PC FROZE. so my cliffs note version!
> 
> I was never happy about the divorce (just like you) I was happy to quit hurting!
> 
> Being scared of being alone is perfectly normal. I was too! Look at from a different angle. ITS NOT ALL BAD, focus on the good points.
> 
> I don't know your wife so I can't say what she will do, to show a change of heart, but trust me.....you will know. (mine wrote me a big long letter, telling me what an idiot she was, and showed remorse, focused on me, not herself.
> 
> That weight you feel lifted............is you starting to change.
> 
> *Do this tomorrow A.M. Wake up, and tell your self its Friday, and its going to be a great day. Put all your emotions aside, and focus on having a good day! NOTHING anyone says, or does tomorrow is going to bring you down! You deserve to be happy! Challange your self! * Then do it again on Saturday.
> 
> That weight you feel lifted........... is you you changing.
> 
> You have changed already..........more so then you realize!


This worked this am for me!!


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## cabin fever

Jayb said:


> This worked this am for me!!


:smthumbup:

Its gonna be a great weekend. Perfect weather, and ST Paddy's day tomorrow!


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## Jayb

Had an awesome Saturday so far. Workout and 2 hours at the pool. Tonight remains unplanned as of yet. Tomorrow, I'll see the children and wife for a couple hours.

So far, so good!!!!


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