# Would it matter to you if ...



## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

My husb had an EA and says they never discussed their feelings for each other, or sexted. That it was all talk mostly about work and about their marriages and pasts. 

I don't think it makes a bit of difference to me, he still lied, he still discussed our marriage and he was attracted to her, even though he didn't, or hadn't yet, acted upon it. He was cold as ICE to me during that time. I think they hadn't discussed their feelings or sexted and god only knows what else, because I found out soon after they started talking.

He thinks his statement should lesson my pain, I agree, things could have been worse, but lets face it, they aren't worse because I caught him! 

Am I wrong here?


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

No, you are not wrong at all. 

It's the betrayal that hurts most and the moment a WS starts secret contact the damage is done. You are now married to a liar who is in secret contact with OW. A cheater.

How far they take it is almost here nor there. They don't stop until they get caught. Acting on it in the first place is the crime.

PA makes it worse but if you hadn't discovered him where would it have ended? PA is just an EA that hasn't happened yet. I think about 80% of EAs go PA. 

Don't let him minimise it or make out that it wasn't 'that' bad (which mine said to me) because it didn't go PA. 

Remember that cheaters do NOT tell the truth, they only admit to what they know you know and then sanitise it. Whatever he tells you they talked about or did, treat it with a grain of salt. And he talked to her about your marriage? Grrrrr!

Does OW have H or BF? If so I hope you let them know what was going on.


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## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

She does have a BF but I have no idea how to contact him or even what his name is, apparently she referred to him as fata$$. 

I agree, I think it was headed to PA, I just happened to catch it by a freak happening, he wasn't pumping the brakes at all! The deception IS the worst, that they conspired to have this little secret friendship just makes me want to poke hubby with a stick ... repeatedly!!


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Make sure you use the pointy end of the stick... I am sorry you are here.

The lying, deception and breaking of the trust is the worst I think.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Determined...I can understand why you feel floored. Perhaps I am being too naive, and I am really not trying to put any guilt on to you, but have you thought about WHY he did what he did?

Speaking as a man; if I can get succulent fillet steak at home, why go out for a hamburger?

However, if all I'm getting at home is dry bread...??

However I fully accept that its a chicken an egg scenario.... If the husband is treating the wife like $hit then why should she even want to be intimate with him?

I don't condone affairs, but there are often underlying reasons why they happen.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> My husb had an EA and says they never discussed their feelings for each other, or sexted. That it was all talk mostly about work and about their marriages and pasts.
> 
> I don't think it makes a bit of difference to me, he still lied, he still discussed our marriage and he was attracted to her, even though he didn't, or hadn't yet, acted upon it. He was cold as ICE to me during that time. I think they hadn't discussed their feelings or sexted and god only knows what else, because I found out soon after they started talking.
> 
> ...


His first mistake is thinking you can believe him when he says 'it was only harmless'.. because you caught him in a lie, so now you can't trust he's being honest. You're not sure what they really discussed, or how far they were into the flirting.. 

He can't tell you how much pain to feel, or if you're normal to feel a certain amount of pain. Another selfish move.. first he crosses boundaries, then he tells you it's not that big a deal, then he tells you you're wrong to feel so much pain..

So no, you're not wrong, he's wrong to not be kissing your behind to do anything and everything to prove he's going to change and that he's learned a lesson, and that he can regain trust over time.. not that you're over reacting...

It's easier to flip it so you're in the wrong, then it's not about his loose boundaries or lack of self control, it becomes about you being over sensitive, or controlling, or anything to put it on you...


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Was she a co-worker of his? How did you find out? Did they meet outside of work?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

How is he treating you now? Does he admit that it was an EA? Did he agree to go NC?

And yes, it might matter to me if there weren't any love words or sex. It wouldn't make it easy, but it might matter. It would depend on the state of the marriage, his behavior then and in the aftermath, how I felt about the loss of trust. Lots of variables.


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

Doesnt matter in my book. If hes talking about private matters to this person and not to you is a breach of trust. If that person is replacing you in any way is a breach of your trust. 

He now needs to be open and honest (as should you) about why he went there and why he was having these discussions when it was clearly out of bounds.

You might find that he has an issue with you and feels like he cannot talk it ou, but that is flimsey and not really something that would stand the term justified.

He was clearly happy to be "close" to this other person. It doesnt matter if its another female or a male when a partner does this its still forming the EA ground rules for them to set about pushing boundries.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Tell him it does matter. Things would be worse if he did more.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> My husb had an EA and says they never discussed their feelings for each other, or sexted. That it was all talk mostly about work and about their marriages and pasts.
> 
> I don't think it makes a bit of difference to me, he still lied, he still discussed our marriage and he was attracted to her, even though he didn't, or hadn't yet, acted upon it. He was cold as ICE to me during that time. I think they hadn't discussed their feelings or sexted and god only knows what else, because I found out soon after they started talking.
> 
> ...


If he is telling the truth it sounds like this was sort of pre-EA, but you are certainly correct in saying that it didn't progress only because you caught him. You and he need to have an honest talk about what it was that attracted him to her as a confidant and why he felt he needed a female one.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

It doesn't matter to a degree.

There are many more triggers and mind-movies once an affair goes physical. 

In an EA, the words of sexual nature or I love yous' can go pretty deep. 

If it's just a close relationship, it's trust, hurt, and betrayal, with the BS speculating the wants and desires creating more hurt but a PA, there's no speculation.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> My husb had an EA and says they never discussed their feelings for each other, or sexted. That it was all talk mostly about work and about their marriages and pasts.
> 
> I don't think it makes a bit of difference to me, he still lied, he still discussed our marriage and he was attracted to her, even though he didn't, or hadn't yet, acted upon it. He was cold as ICE to me during that time. I think they hadn't discussed their feelings or sexted and god only knows what else, because I found out soon after they started talking.
> 
> ...


Sorry for your troubles and pain..

I've been there with something like this 8 years ago. My Ex still ended up cheating and leaving but thats my story, not yours.

First off you both need counseling to work this out. Do not try this by yourselves without professional help.. 

Make sure when you talk to him you explain to him how it makes YOU feel.. What you are Feeling.. Just don't say I'm sad.. Explain to him I have a tightness in my chest.. It feels like my heart is going to burst.. It feels like my head is spinning. I can't hold a clear thought in my head. 

He needs to show you he wants this relationship.. He needs to be transparent and forthcoming. 

My friend had an affair of sorts 8 years ago.. Still till this day if he goes out to lunch with me he will tell his wife, because she expected him to have lunch in the office. She doesn't beat him up about it, but she does have triggers and he just doesn't want her to think he is messing around when he is out to lunch with me. He is being Transparent for her.

Don't ever stop therapy.. Keep going as a maintenance even once you think things might be better. Even if its every 3 or 6 months.. This will allow him to tell the therapist that something else might be wrong in the future. 

That is something I believe if I did with my ex might have helped us. It would have been an outlet for her to tell the therapist and then the therapist could have told me.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> My husb had an EA and says they never discussed their feelings for each other, or sexted. That it was all talk mostly about work and about their marriages and pasts.
> 
> I don't think it makes a bit of difference to me, he still lied, he still discussed our marriage and he was attracted to her, even though he didn't, or hadn't yet, acted upon it. He was cold as ICE to me during that time. I think they hadn't discussed their feelings or sexted and god only knows what else, because I found out soon after they started talking.
> 
> ...


No, your not wrong at all. I would be deeply hurt if my husband discussed me and our marriage to another woman. If my husband wanted to discuss it with anyone then it should have been me, not some other woman.

I mean its no business of hers about work, marriages or past, its yours and his business and i would be more than just peed.

And the worst part, he WAS attracted to her, and not YET acted upon it, so would he have acted upon it??.... His attention must have been focused on her, as it was not on you as you said yourself he was cold to you while he was having this EA with her.

Yes they could have been worse, and maybe they would have been if he had not been found out.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> My husb had an EA and says they never discussed their feelings for each other, or sexted. That it was all talk mostly about work and about their marriages and pasts.


Honestly, yes that would make a big difference to me. It doesn’t sound like an EA as much as it does a support person to talk about marriage issues with. I’ve got a few friendships like that, two close enough that we talk deep about our relationships.

Sounds like he hid that he was doing that out of fear of how you’d react. Looks like he was right since you are immediately considering this an affair. 

So, to clear it up a bit. How is the contact done and how often? My WW’s EA’s were like 24/7, 2-4 hours of talking (phone or face to face) and a hundred or so text a day. If anything new happened in her life, her boyfriend was the first person she told. She thought about him constantly. The E is for emotional; like a pull they can’t resist, so it’d be contact at pretty much every opportunity when it was possible. Is the relationship like that? 

If it’s not like that, this is just something you really don’t like. Your husband is talking to another woman about you and the state of the marriage asking for advice. Much like you are doing here on this forum.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

My affair partner started out that way. We talked about a lot of things... some shared trauma in our lives, bad marriages, family life, etc... Since she lived 200 miles away I wasn't looking at this as a step to a physical affair. She was just a friendly ear.

If it hadn't progressed to a physical affair when she came to my town for a short-term job assignment, would my wife still been upset that I was talking to her? Absolutely. Why? Because my wife feels NOTHING should be discussed outside the home (including to marriage counselors and therapists).

So why did I open up to this woman? Because I couldn't discuss things with my wife. We would argue (she'd argue, I'd listen) as soon as I got home. If I expressed displeasure, "there's the front door" was the throwaway phrase she would use. Felt I couldn't leave, felt I couldn't talk to her. Yet EVERYONE needs to talk about their problems and I found someone to listen to mine.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I would recommend that both of you read Shirley Glass' book NOT Just Friends. It explains what appropriate boundaries are in marriage. For a man, talking about your marriage with another woman is inappropriate and it's stepping onto that slippery slope - if more time had gone by and the opportunity had been there it's very likely it would have gone further.

And do NOT for a minute think that this has something to do with you. It does NOT. You may have a great marriage, an average marriage, or a lousy marriage - EA's happen in ALL kinds of marriages. There is NO justification for what he did, though if you try to talk about this on your own (without professional guidance) he is likely to go there: the blame shifting route, mentioning ways in which you don't fulfill his needs. NOBODY meets their spouse's every need - and while your marriage may be lacking in some areas, that NEVER excuses his turning to another woman for emotional intimacy. Ways the marriage could improve and his EA are two completely SEPARATE issues.

And while he may in fact be minimizing this EA (not having discussed feelings means nothing for men who cheat, by the way - they often hit the sack and never talk about "love"), it's also true he may not be being honest with himself - he may be so good at compartmentalizing that part of his brain that was headed for an affair that he walls it off even from himself much of the time, and is actually a bit horrified to "let it out" and look at it himself. People really do lie to themselves.

I agree that it's marriage therapy time. But get yourself a good one. Mediocre or bad ones could do more harm than good. Try the National Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists website for a recommendation.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Racer said:


> Honestly, yes that would make a big difference to me. It doesn’t sound like an EA as much as it does a support person to talk about marriage issues with. I’ve got a few friendships like that, two close enough that we talk deep about our relationships.
> 
> Sounds like he hid that he was doing that out of fear of how you’d react. Looks like he was right since you are immediately considering this an affair.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

In 2010 my wife had an EA. Thousands of texts, very sexual, and all within a few days of meeting this guy. Even texting while I was asleep next to her. Some days there were marathons, texting till 5:30 A.M. and starting again at 7:30 A.M. going on like this for two weeks periods, like she was in hyper mode.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Would it matter if all you found were sexual contacts online? And there was no discussion of marriages or work? What if it was the other way around?

If they are not close to you and hiding it from you and not working on your marriage? What else CAN you think.

Sounds like you are the one that found out, right, he wasn't wracked with guilt and came confessing, right? 

Classic crap. You are not wrong. Imagine where it would have gone. Its bullcrap! 

And, no, secret relationships with real people are not the same as coming to a *marriage* forum to try to figure it out.

Sorry I have to disagree on that one.

Please take care of yourself.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

DeterminedToThrive said:


> My husb had an EA and says they never discussed their feelings for each other, or sexted. That it was all talk mostly about work and about their marriages and pasts.
> 
> I don't think it makes a bit of difference to me, he still lied, he still discussed our marriage and he was attracted to her, even though he didn't, or hadn't yet, acted upon it. He was cold as ICE to me during that time. I think they hadn't discussed their feelings or sexted and god only knows what else, because I found out soon after they started talking.
> 
> ...


My situation is almost identical. I feel betrayed and feel like it didn't progress because I caught it. I found this site while reading up online. I found advise and started the 180, basically spied and followed weightlifter's advice (I kept my mouth shut and gathered evidence using his advice using VARs so I heard how they spoke to each other. I checked the phone bill, had find my iPhone and iMessage linked to my iPad (he didn't know). 

When I was ready to confront I gave him a chance to just come clean. It wasn't as if OS friends were "off limits". He still didn't come clean until I decided to confront. I was prepared to tell him to leave. I also contacted her fiancé to let him know exactly what I found. She was lying to him.

So pre-EA, wake up call. Whatever you want to call it I wasn't ok with it because of the daily lies. It did damage. We are still undoing it. I struggle with my having to confront rather than see what would have happened. She lived hours away so face to face was difficult. I'm not putting all the blame on her, but she has a pattern of this and has had affairs with older more successful men. I know he was her next in her plan. Her fiancé did also and broke up with her.

Sorry you are here. Hopefulgirl mentioned "Not a Just Friends", buy it. Keep reading here. Don't let anyone make you feel his choice to lie and violate boundaries is your fault. You are responsible for your conduct in the marriage but not his decision to lie and violate your trust. Don't let anyone minimize your feelings.


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## Mortie (Dec 19, 2013)

Determined, I am sorry you are in this situation. Mine is similar. First of all my wife cheated on me physically just before we became engaged to be married, lied about it and didnt tell me until 3 months ago which is 22 years and three kids into our marriage. She feels like its not that big of a deal since it was 22 years ago. 

Just prior to finding out about her cheating, I find out that she has been talking to a POSOM on a relationship board. She is talking to him via PM's, email, telephone calls, (71 calls and each a minimum of 1 to 2 hours to be exact). She admitted to only 5 to 10 phone calls by the way. She claims to be helping POSOM with his marriage problems but its all behind the scenes. Did I mention the fact that she was deleting all of the history on the computer, all her text messages and phone calls? She was talking to him for the last two years. She claims that nothing intimate was discussed but it is strange how she felt the need to tell POSOM how she cheated on me physically 22 years ago. I thought she was helping POSOM with his marriage?????? Go figure. She claims it was not an EA but a slippery slope according to "Not just Friends". As far as Im concerned, she can call it what she wants. I know what it really was. She was dead wrong and so was the POSOM. But they obviously both got their needs met at my expense.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Just because it could have been worse, doesn't mean this isn't _bad_ and doesn't leave you feeling like crap and like you can't trust him and like you can't believe in his feelings for you and your marriage.

He's trying to minimize, and it could be because he feels guilty and wants to feel less guilty. Or it could be because he doesn't feel much guilt and wants you to think of it as nothing, too. 

Does he acknowledge that this was an EA, and that it could have gone further had you not caught them? Does he acknowledge that what he did was a betrayal? If not, then you are still in the stage where he doesn't "get it" why this has hurt you so much.


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## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

thanks for all the responses.

We have both read and worked through "Not just friend" by Shirley Glass. 

He worked with this woman and I had never heard her name mentioned, didn't even know she existed even though when confronted my husb claimed she was his best friend at work. They had gone to every break and lunch together for months, then had gone to workout 5 times after work to her gym. He lied to me those 5 days he was an hr late and said he was working. She had offered to take his workout clothes to her house so he wouldn't have to sneak them in and out of our house. When I checked the phone bill, he had for the first time ever put a text package on his phone and there were over 60 messages to her that month, they can't text at work so it was all after work.

At first he denied being in an EA, now he admits he was. He admits to having sexual fantasies about this woman, he lied to me in order to spend time with this woman and he spoke of details of our marriage he hadn't discussed with me. 

I have no proof this didn't go PA, all I have are my instincts and so far, I've been correct. 

Since dday 4 months ago, he has completely changed, he's attentive, loving, affectionate and for the first time in a long time, I feel like our marriage is headed in the right direction.

He did text the "OW best friend" in front of me to tell her they could no longer be friends or have any contact and he was working on his marriage. He expected his "friend" to be understanding and happy he was working on his marriage... she was not, she sent back a hateful, cussing text ... and the affair fog began to lift.

He does however think that since there were no expressed feelings and no PA that it wasn't "as bad". I believe he broke our wedding vows "forsaking all others and only unto you be true"... for that month, he forsook me and was true to her. That's my opinion.

Someone asked what the state of our marriage was and that was a possible reason for the EA. I call BULL SH*T on that, I was in the same marriage and I didn't CHOOSE to break my wedding vows. I take %50 of the responsibility for the state of our marriage but I will not take even a smidge of responsibility for the CHOICE he made to have an EA.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Thank you for the clarification. That’s an EA. It looks like he was trying to date her than just use her for advice. You don’t hide your relationship in the office if there’s nothing to hide you’d be judged on. All my stuff was done in my office in clear view of anyone and they all knew I was having severe marriage issues and offered support in one way or another. And if I got a NC letter from her, I wouldn’t be angry at all... it would not feel like a breakup since there’s not that kind of relationship.


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## DeterminedToThrive (Nov 2, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> it's also true he may not be being honest with himself - he may be so good at compartmentalizing that part of his brain that was headed for an affair that he walls it off even from himself much of the time, and is actually a bit horrified to "let it out" and look at it himself. People really do lie to themselves.


I think this might be a lot of his minimizing. He has always been a great guy, raising the child I already had when we married as his own. For 30 years he has been a great partner and husband. He is a piss poor liar, which is why I knew when he lied the very first time he was home late. It just took me a month to get the proof (and remember the password I had used on the phone bill account). 

He sees and realizes the pain and damage he has caused, when I break down, I see the horror in his eyes that he has created this pain. Yet, upon occasion he will still say something that seems minimizing to me. I know he didn't do this thinking "I'm going to cause pain and damage that will scar her for life" but that's what his actions caused. I know that he loves me and I suppose it's difficult to face that you made such stupid, selfish choices that caused life long scars in the person you've loved for 30 years.


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