# Need some serious advice from those older and wiser!



## The Prodigy (May 24, 2011)

I have an issue in my marriage that has been bugging me for around 3 years that I need some help resolving. My wife and I have been married for 4 years now and we have a 3 year old son together. Just a little history of our relationship just to give you a good grasp on us: we started dating a couple of months after I returned from the military. We dated for 2 or 3 years and we could not keep our hands off of each other. If we were both off of work, we were together and usually in the bed. The start of our marriage was no different, then we concieved our son. The only problems we had were over money, she has determination and drive like I do but here family is not very successful but mine is. Since we have been together I have landed an amazing career. As a 26 year old man in Oklahoma I am doing extremely well. I have been able to provide a life for my wife that she has never experienced, big house, new cars, anything she could want. She is extremely frugal however and does not like to spend any money, but thats not the issue. The issue is that ever since we have had our son, she has lost that "loving feeling". We have literally been intimate a handful of times in the last 3 years. It seems that as soon as we had our son, her libido went out the door. I do everything that I can think of to kindle a spark in her literally every day. I send flowers, take her on dates, I let anything that she wants to do take precident over my activities. All I can think of is that women want to be shown love in ways like helping with the cooking or cleaning and kids (which I do), and men like to be shown that they are loved by their spouses being physical. I have slipped in to this depression over the last couple of months over this and I can not dig myself out. (which is not me at all! I was special forces in the military and spent 2 years on the front lines in Iraq, with no post traumatic stress) I dont know what else to do. She does not give me a hug or a kiss when I get home from work, its not just the sex, its all physical contact. Help me out guys, please! I'm out of options here, and divorce is completely out of the question.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

You are too nice.

She doesn't understand what sex means to a man. Book,.her needs, his needs. Give it to her. You read it second.

Sex post baby is tough for a lot of women. Our hormones change. Sense of smell changes too. Always smell good.

It is.also hard to transirion from mom to lover. She.might have forgotten how. 

She has to see that this is a line in the sand. She is the only one who can give you sex so it isn't fair.for.her to hold you captive without it. You will divorce. You will not live in a sexless marriage.


Then it is up to her to see a.doctor, see a mental heath pro, deal wobble any body issues, etc. You will support and encourage and help. But you see no reason to be married to someone who chooses to he nonsexuql when ma4rage is.suppose to provide a sexual outlet. Become on flesh. God said it. How can you argue with God?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

If D is.off the table, good luck changing this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

You need to try to talk to her about this. I might also get the book "and a baby makes three" by gottman.

If you are unable to talk to her about this and figure out the reasoning behind this, get into marriage counseling. Sometimes NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO OR SAY as a husband can solve an issue if its hidden deeply enough or too hard for your wife to talk to you about. 

Sit her down and lovingly say what you feel and then listen. Don't talk, get mad, etc. Find out what is up. She may not know.

It sounds like you are a good husband, but you may need help to fix this.

Best of luck


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

You can't come across as so weak as to say that no matter how much she deprioritizes you and your needs, that you will never leave. That just creates the environment for your current problems to thrive.


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## The Prodigy (May 24, 2011)

Thank you for your input, I'm not entirely convinced that divorce is off the table, I understand about the hormone change. My mom is an OB/GYN and my wife works for her! My mom is obviously on my side, we're very close! Very good points, it might be line in the sand time! Friggin alimony will be brutal!


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## The Prodigy (May 24, 2011)

Anx, I've talked to her about it a couple of times, all I can get out of her over her pissed off response is that she doesnt feel sexy anymore. She hates her new body (she went from a size 1 to a 3) but she doesnt understand that I love it (her boobs got bigger).


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

How old are you? I need to know if I am older? I am likely no wiser.

First: depression knows no boundaries. The fact that you were, *and still remain*, a strong person with military background does not make you immune. Please do not add feelings of lessening of self worth over depression as some people do. Seek treatment and tweak with it until you get something that works for you. Depression is going to make solving your other problems like trying to swim through a sea of paving tar.

Ok on to marriage issues. There is no one solution. There is a multi-pronged approach, in my opinion.

- When you say you HELP with the housework, is she a SAHM? To a 3yo? Whether she is a SAHM/ housewife is relevant. If you are both working, then you should not be "helping" with the housework, you should be an equal partner. If she is a SAHM, there is no earthly reason that a SAHM with a three year old cannot get the lion's share of the housework done. How you convince her of that fact I would leave off the table FOR NOW. (Come back in 3 months when the other issues are resolved.  But if you are both working, then adjust your mindset from helping to equal partnership.

- Read up on love languages. Cleaning is not a demonstration of love unless her love language is acts of service. It may be a necessary stress reducer, but it very well may not say love to her. You could mop until the cows come home, and it would never ever say come on baby light my fire to me. Or even darling I love you. So read up on Love Languages and Love Banks. Google will help you there.

- Read the man up, nice guy threads in the men's clubhouse. You may be being a Nice Guy with a capital N and G. Real desire killer. There is a bunch of stuff about getting your needs met in a manner that also gets her (maybe unknown) needs met.

Good luck!


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

> I let anything that she wants to do take precident over my activities.


Stop being too nice! Pick the restaurant you want to eat at, get a hobby and let her see you get good at it; stop coming straight home from work - go to the gym, bookstore, hang out with other guys or whatever you like to do. My thing is I play in a band - my wife LOVES this and has been nothing but supportive even since we had our baby. It gets me out of the house 1-2 times a week, gives both of us the space we need, I'm doing something I'm good at and she is happy to see me doing it (plus I get paid sometimes!) It is a WIN for everyone. I used to be apologetic about it, but she is supportive to the point of arranging her work schedule around our rehearsal time, at her own initiative (something I would never have asked of her).

Don't call her all the time - be a little mysterious and let her wonder where you are every now and then. Don't be afraid to fight. If she is being unreasonable about anything, call her out on it and stand your ground. Give her verbal and nonverbal clues that you are important too and deserve priority in the relationship.

I've figured out from this board that this notion of helping around the house leading to sex is a huge myth. Helping around the house means you are helpful - definitely do your part but don't expect to earn extra points. What gets you points is demonstrating that you are the man, and becoming physically, mentally, and thus sexually attractive to her.

Don't stop with the flowers, dates, etc. But space them out and use them sparingly so she doesn't get bored or take them for granted.

I'm responding passionately because I am seeing these things are starting to work for me. Last night we had a big fight about something stupid; but I stood my ground and got my point across until we reached some kind of compromise/equilibrium. After a cooling down perioud and just a little nudging from me we ended up having AWESOME makeup sex (oral too!). This would NEVER have happened this way, say, a month or two ago, but I've started making some of these changes and it IS working for me.

Most men in the 'Clubhouse' area will give you pep talks like this. There are lots of threads about 'manning up,' etc. which has been extremely helpful for me, and has me addicted to this forum. FTR I am 30 and married for 6 months, with a 3 month old. Good luck!


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

yes, couldn't have said it any better.




nader said:


> Stop being too nice! Pick the restaurant you want to eat at, get a hobby and let her see you get good at it; stop coming straight home from work - go to the gym, bookstore, hang out with other guys or whatever you like to do. My thing is I play in a band - my wife LOVES this and has been nothing but supportive even since we had our baby. It gets me out of the house 1-2 times a week, gives both of us the space we need, I'm doing something I'm good at and she is happy to see me doing it (plus I get paid sometimes!)
> 
> Don't call her all the time - be a little mysterious and let her wonder where you are every now and then. Don't be afraid to fight. If she is being unreasonable about anything, call her out on it and stand your ground. Give her verbal and nonverbal clues that you are important too and deserve priority in the relationship.
> 
> ...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The Prodigy said:


> We have literally been intimate a handful of times in the last 3 years. It seems that as soon as we had our son, her libido went out the door.


This isn't advice but a comment... I do not at all understand how people can be married and have sex a "handful of times" in years. It's weird to me.



The Prodigy said:


> I do everything that I can think of to kindle a spark in her literally every day. I send flowers, take her on dates, I let anything that she wants to do take precident over my activities.
> 
> She does not give me a hug or a kiss when I get home from work, its not just the sex, its all physical contact.


You need to sit her down STAT and talk to her. This is not ok and you're going to start resenting her. You sound like you're doing what a wife wants their husband to do (being there, emotionally supportive, be interested in her interests, flowers, dates. Talk. Soon. Today. 

It goes beyond just the sex from what you have described. I can't imagine not wanting to kiss your spouse and being warm when you see them after work. Granted, not every day is an on day but it sounds like a pattern w/ her!


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## The Prodigy (May 24, 2011)

I agree, thinking back, when we first got married I had this "I'm the man and I dont take any **** from you or anybody else" mentality. I got my way half the time, she got her way half the time. It seems that this new type of behavior came on when we had our kid. Both of our dads split when we were young, I might be trying to hard to "be there" and I may be smothering both of them. Thanks for the help Nader,


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

Yeah, I think I just grew up being taught (by society, the media, etc.) to treat women like princesses. There is certainly a place for that, until you become the court jester when you should be the knight in shining armor. Pregnancy is a breeding ground for this to happen, because of course you want to take care of your wife when she's carrying your child. Glad I could help, it feels great to see this actually working out in my life.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

The Prodigy said:


> I agree, thinking back, when we first got married I had this "I'm the man and I dont take any **** from you or anybody else" mentality. I got my way half the time, she got her way half the time.


With DH and I we both get our way 98% of the time. New way of looking at things, perhaps. But the very heart of GOOD compromise is to learn to find win/win.


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## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

All this advice often ultimately leads back to telling you to be the person you were before marriage, the person that attracted your wife in the first place. Even if she is telling you you need to be someon else or change often times they were attracted to the person you started out being. Be that guy. Don't try so hard. Trying to meet her every need and anticipate what she needs next just keeps sending her the message that "you are better than me, so I am going to do everything I can for you...." That will never cause her to desire or chase you.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

Get in MC if you can't communicate your way out of this. 

She needs to be able to talk more about her new body. If she doesn't feel sexy, thats not your fault. There is only so much you can do, but there is probably more going on as well. 

She isn't going to feel comfortable talking about it if she doesn't love herself, and sex and love towards you isn't going to happen either.

Best of Luck.

MC is usually MUCH MUCH cheaper than a 2nd rent.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

The Prodigy said:


> I have an issue in my marriage that has been bugging me for around 3 years that I need some help resolving. My wife and I have been married for 4 years now and we have a 3 year old son together. Just a little history of our relationship just to give you a good grasp on us: we started dating a couple of months after I returned from the military. We dated for 2 or 3 years and we could not keep our hands off of each other. If we were both off of work, we were together and usually in the bed. The start of our marriage was no different, then we concieved our son. The only problems we had were over money, she has determination and drive like I do but here family is not very successful but mine is. Since we have been together I have landed an amazing career. As a 26 year old man in Oklahoma I am doing extremely well. I have been able to provide a life for my wife that she has never experienced, big house, new cars, anything she could want. She is extremely frugal however and does not like to spend any money, but thats not the issue. The issue is that ever since we have had our son, she has lost that "loving feeling". We have literally been intimate a handful of times in the last 3 years. It seems that as soon as we had our son, her libido went out the door. I do everything that I can think of to kindle a spark in her literally every day. I send flowers, take her on dates, I let anything that she wants to do take precident over my activities. All I can think of is that women want to be shown love in ways like helping with the cooking or cleaning and kids (which I do), and men like to be shown that they are loved by their spouses being physical. I have slipped in to this depression over the last couple of months over this and I can not dig myself out. (which is not me at all! I was special forces in the military and spent 2 years on the front lines in Iraq, with no post traumatic stress) I dont know what else to do. She does not give me a hug or a kiss when I get home from work, its not just the sex, its all physical contact. Help me out guys, please! I'm out of options here, and divorce is completely out of the question.


So, I'm a lot older, but not too sure about the wiser, but I'll still take a stab. 1st, bending over backwards to do chores, special presents, etc, is absolutely not the path to a greater sex life. It only shows that you care. If you are not careful to stay true to who you really are, it allows her to elevate herself. You're hers. A safe bet.

What's missing? Part of it is the feelings that she felt when she perceived herself as vulnerable as to whether or not you would follow through with a deeper relationship. Her friends thought she was lucky. You were careful to make sure that you sent her signals that let her know that she was lucky to have you. That stopped after the wedding. Your hers. Confidence and a bit of self importance need to find their way back into your personality. Be bold, independent, and caring. Look into the Nice Guy threads. My wife and I socialize quite a bit, and I don't think my alpha side ever rests. Seems that she tends to initiate more when she sees me through other people's eyes also.

May I ask how you find yourself in the situation of infrequent sex? Do you ask, and then she turns you down? In 24 years of marriage, that dynamic doesn't hasn't come to my wife and I. I don't think I'm being nearderthal, but I don't ask. By dinner time, I've communicated my interest through touching and kisses, and she hasn't gone after me with a hot curling iron, so by the time we go upstairs for bed, there are no questions. In premarital counseling, we were very frank about the non-optional nature of a healthy sex life. No sex = no marriage, except in cases of sickness or disability.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Prodigy, 

An awful lot has happened in your life since you dated and married. You're 26 now, but your relationship is 8 years old, meaning you started dating her at 18. You couldn't have done 2 years in Iraq or been SF prior to age 18, so she either watch you transition from civilian to Soldier or met you when you were a Soldier. She apparently watched you change from Soldier to SF to deployed combat troop (maybe twice), and then to unemployed civilian and then to employed civilian. Maybe you don't have PTSD but your entire lifestyle has changed in a relatively brief period and probably her's, too. Deployments do change the dynamics of relationships. Were you Active Duty when you married? Was she pregnant when she married you? If so, was it a joint decision for you to leave the service or was this a decision you made and she dealt with? There's been a huge load of stressors put on this relationship. It'd be sort of amazing if you didn't have some issues. I'm just an Army Reserve combat support troop. I've been deployed twice and I worked with SF. I'm an E8 and very rarely went outside the wire. My deployed life was Disney compared to yours and my wife wasn't pregnant. Even so, things have been a bit different for us after I got back. I'm not sucking a pistol or anything, either, but for 15 months, wife had to go solo and though she's proud of my service, she's got some resentment about that. I did that to her twice and she knows I will go again. I came back home and thought it was going to be business as usual and I had to learn that she couldn't go from independent, strong woman to dependant wife just cause I showed back up. I was used to that crystal clear, life and death tempo and I had no patience at all for civilian BS. I had to adjust fire. Don't know if any of this applies or makes sense for your situation, but the lack of sex, in your case, is probably not the problem but a symptom of another issue. I'm thinking you and wife need to sit down with a really good counselor and this is going to take some patience and time. It doesn't sound like an unusual problem and if both of you are willing, I bet it can be fixed. Thanks again and best of luck.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

On one hand you have to make her feel loved and sexy. If what you are doing does not work you have to try something new. On another hand you have to act manly. Cleaning in order to get sex is not manly, so you have to stop doing that. On another hand, you cannot tolerate sexlessness, or you will get sexlessness. So you have 3 things to work on.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Something I didn't know but found out here is that men tend to put their wives first and women tend to put their children first. I don't think it's abnormal for a man to have conflicted feelings in regards to his children. On one hand he finds his wife's love for their children endearing and on the other he is jealous of the swing in attention. While his wife most likely thinks his attention has swung in the child's direction too and really doesn't understand how the man feels. There's an impasse in their empathy for one another and resentments begin to build.

You said you spoke with her but when you spoke with her what did you say exactly? How involved are you in your son's life with your wife and what are these times like? 

From personal experience I can say that when my husband and I had all three of our children our sex life didn't alter even though my attention sometimes did. I think the main reason, looking back, was that my husband was always a very proactive father/husband. I look back on our life with babies (my children are now 5, 10, 14) and have really fond memories of laying in bed with him and I and each as a newborn and him doing sweet things like brushing his hand against my cheek and staring at me and vocalizing how much he loved "us". It kept the intimacy alive in our relationship because it endeared him to me. We'd place the baby in the bassinet and go at it.

I think in order for the relationship between the two of you to reignite you have to jump back into the new form of intimacy that forms between a husband and wife after children. I also think you need to be sincerely honest with your wife (if you haven't been already) about the fact that you are jealous of her change in affection. My husband did vocalize this after the fact and strangely it endeared him even more to me. I had thought having children was only a difficult adjustment for me because I did the bulk of the child rearing work so it was really great to know it was difficult for him too. Sometimes it's easy to get lost in our own heads and then our sense of connection goes south.

If you get the relationship after children right there is a lot of room for an even deeper connection between the two of you. Also, I think you should ask her about and be considerate of what her needs/wants are as well and not as you perceive them to be but as they actually are.

It bothered me that you went from divorce being out of the question to a possibility. I at first had a view of you as steadfast and dedicated but then had to re-think that.


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## The Prodigy (May 24, 2011)

On another hand you have to act manly. Cleaning in order to get sex is not manly, so you have to stop doing that.


When I say help with the chores, I do the "guy" stuff. Mow, weedeat, you know, all the handyman type of stuff. I grew up on a ranch and my stepdad owns his own construction business so I've been pretty handy as long as I can remember and a shop full of tools to make it happen. I work in finance and I'm at the office between 70 and 80 hours a week. Here lately whenever I would do the handyman type of stuff, I would get some action. That has dropped off in the last couple of weeks though (I repainted the outside of the house and remodeled the bathroom just to try to get a little loving!) Its not like she comes home in a pant suit and I'm wearing an apron cooking dinner and doing the laundry. (although I do my best to try to pitch in when I get a chance)]


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## The Prodigy (May 24, 2011)

It bothered me that you went from divorce being out of the question to a possibility. I at first had a view of you as steadfast and dedicated but then had to re-think that.[/QUOTE]


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## The Prodigy (May 24, 2011)

Trenton, when I say that divorce is a possibility I, like any other human, have my deal breakers. Cheating is a definite deal breaker for me, I couldnt stand to divorce her over our sex life. I think I've made it sound a lot worse than it actually is, its picked up in the last couple of months, I just needed some advice and ideas to make it more regular. which this thread has definetely helped with. We sat down and talked about it last night, she saw some flaws with herself and she exposed some things that I do that bothers her, followed by a quick romp in the laundry room!


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

yeah, being able to talk about those things openly without one of you getting mad or defensive is a good sign. makeup sex in a room other than the bedroom is even better!

I've made some good progress in my marriage, like I said earlier, and it is a great feeling.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

The Prodigy said:


> On another hand you have to act manly. Cleaning in order to get sex is not manly, so you have to stop doing that.
> 
> 
> When I say help with the chores, I do the "guy" stuff. Mow, weedeat, you know, all the handyman type of stuff. I grew up on a ranch and my stepdad owns his own construction business so I've been pretty handy as long as I can remember and a shop full of tools to make it happen. I work in finance and I'm at the office between 70 and 80 hours a week. Here lately whenever I would do the handyman type of stuff, I would get some action. That has dropped off in the last couple of weeks though (I repainted the outside of the house and remodeled the bathroom just to try to get a little loving!) Its not like she comes home in a pant suit and I'm wearing an apron cooking dinner and doing the laundry. (although I do my best to try to pitch in when I get a chance)]


This does give a much better picture of your actions. Obviously, she responds to the manly things you do. To me, the only problem is that you convey the hope to turn this into action. Somehow, you've got to try to get to the place where you're not sending the signals that you are trading acts for her attention. Sets her on an uncomfortable position of superiority if she senses this. Its subtle, but its got to become something where she's pulling you into bed just as hard as you're trying to get there.


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