# TAM vs......



## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

In my travels to find the best way to deal and or combat my wife's extracurricular marital activity I stumbles here at TAM. But before I landed here I read the book Surviving and Affair by Dr. Willard Harley, which was ironically bought by her for me during this debacle. In the process of reading it thoroughly it listed a website and I lurked on the forums there for a bit at Marriagebuilders.com 

It proved to at least provide a platform for people who in my same situation to reference from so a level of hope ensued and I began the steps, although most were ineffective. I exposed to her family and most friends, out children and refused to ignore my feelings of wanting to believe her as well as trying to find and address her emotional needs by being kind and inviting, making the marital home a "Warm and inviting" place to be. 

Needless to say it made things worse and I couldn't figure out why. I was befuddled not only at my effort being ineffective but at her affair taking new heights that affected my children and got to the point of her denying it one moment and lavishing it in my face the other, sometimes within mere minutes. Being dissatisfied I googled many things; Emotional Affair, Online cheatin etc. Sometime I ran across posts in forums, not caring enough about the Website or basis of the website, looking for every and anything I could find. 

I found a place called Marriage Advocates which had some good stuff but not filling enough to keep me interested. I found a site titles Emotional affair where this lady had detailed her husbands efforts dealing with his emotional affair to someone named Tonya. It was informative but still did not provide me with a course of action, and I refused to take a wait and see approach.

I even found this place called MLC or Mid life crisis where as the people there seemed to be on auto pilot and simply accepted their marriage woes and spouses behavior as just part of this process and planted their feet for the sake of the marriage. Kind of like a cult if you ask me, a little odd. I distinctly remember one post where the MLC hubby said he did not care if his wife slept with another man so long as his penis wasn't bigger than his. What I did take from the place though was the sheer amount of woman who were charged with this behavior, I was prejudiced to assume that primarily men were the majority of offenders. 

Then after some trial and error and other places I started to gravitate here to TAM and lurk for a bit. I found the stories familiar yet there was a much different course of actions compared to the other places. At MB the goal was to provide the missing needs of the marriage with whatever was absent, ignore and tolerate the damage and do not expect any kind of remorse or real effort from the wayward. Some people who were there who had been a previous wayward spoke as if they were a cured vampire who could recognize what they were but, I don't know, disregarded or downplayed the seriousness or effects of their behavior. 

For example a married pair, where the wife was the former WS, posted some advice to me taking her phone. One suggested it while the other one didn't citing her anger being a result. The wayward was the one who suggested taking it and her hubby disagreed with it. Now this confused me since the former wayward is telling me what to do to fight this yet the former betrayed is disagreeing with it, and I would imagine that the playbook from the wayward side would weigh heavily on his opinion but then again maybe her suggestion to fight an affair from her point of view is moot since the BS of this pair did in fact win her back.

I also read a post regarding when to kick a wayward woman out of the house, or ahem, ask her to leave. It said that the men should hold out as long as possible since men are supposedly more apt to handle the emotional trauma of a wayward wife compared to a woman ability to sustain the same environment. It said that if the situation is too stressful that the man should leave so as the WW will remember his generous offering of the marital home and peace and warmth within it. Then there was a post about from one of the forums regulars about men not leaving the home at all costs citing examples of why not including claims of desertion and leaving the children exposed to a potential unknown other man factor. 

I challenged this as being hypocritical only to be seen as taking the separate statements out of context. I did not feel that going all full beta was a productive approach nor did I want to leave the home I worked for and kept clean as well as leaving my children behind. I did that for a week and the place turned into a dump.

Marriage Advocates had some good information but seemed, to me, to be a platform for complaints, not necessarily action, and from some of the posts there they even cited this place, TAM, as being the source of the post. So I came here and started my counter offensive. 

Of course I had to get over the fact that the one, if not only, course of action left was to file for Divorce, an end result that I wished to avoid. After realizing I could no longer delay this and with some support from a friend and family I took the steps and so far it is going in my favor, I guess. But that's another story.

So I was wondering, did anyone else feel like TAM provided the most effective way of fighting an affair, or did I simply not understand what MB or other places had in mind in terms of actions and effort. I also frequented Chump Lady and agree with her on many, if not all things so far. I also have to nod in her direction for being able to recapture that aggression towards being screwed over.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

I was lucky I guess TAM was the first place I found. I read a few post then put my story out there. With in minutes people where there that knew what I was going through & helping me to cope. I don't know what I would've done had I not found TAM. It's my life line now. Anytime I'm having a bad day this is where I turn..


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

My pattern of reconciliation did not fit TAM's typical affair response. I wasn't affiliated with any sites originally and was flying from the seat of my pants on things that worked for me in the past with my Mom and my horses and my own past infidelity. Makes me wonder how it fits any website. We did end up doing a 13 week online class through the affairrecovery website and it was really good since it addressed both WS pain and BS pain. I could type out the path I took if anyone is interested.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

I think Married Man Sex Life Primer, Athol Kay speaks so much to the dynamics, attractors, repellers of relationships men have with women. The Man has so much power/initiative in the relationship and just seem to "beta" it all away into oblivion, depending on the W/GF to pick up and keep the pieces together. 50 years of slow betaization in culture is the cause of much of the trouble with men.

While a balanced alpha/beta male will not stop a W from cheating in all cases, it definitely decreases the odds if she's got weak boundaries. Women are programmed to respond to a man. Period. Does not matter how feminazi'd she is. It's simple genetics.

TAM has pragmatic tools and experienced folks who can help people a lot more effectively than most other sites. Some other sites just push more beta on the guy which is a huge problem. One cannot beta a wife back. It can definitely help drive her away, though. 

You'll never see a case (yet) that a guy is just too balanced alpha/beta and that's the issue...

Cheating is 100% on the cheater. What you do about it is on you. IMO the WS has no vote from that day on. You have the power from DDay onward. The WS arrogantly does not know this.

They say 50% of marriages end in divorce. The scary thing is that 50% of marriages last forever.. Sometimes I wonder which is worse...

So, TAM does have superior tools for couples in defending, protecting, nurturing and fixing relationships. They have folks like you helping others with your personal experience. Things you wished you knew not long ago but willingly share it with complete strangers in the hopes of making a difference.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Anger is powerful and motivating but it should be a passing phase, not a place to stay forever.

Not sure about other sites? but in some ways the CWI culture at TAM seems to me to feed bitterness and encourage punitive vengeful actions and some divorced BH's come across as pretty suspicious and hateful toward women in general

Be aware that most of the advice here comes from people with lots of baggage so take it with a grain of salt

Also think there is a double standard at TAM. A BH is supposed to go out and get laid (any hole will do) while a female BW who did that would be a slVt. To me the advice to BH's to go out and get laid is offensive and a pi$$ poor role model for any children involved.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Before I discovered TAM, I looked at Harley's website and read a couple of his books. 

I found, and this is just my personal opinion (I don't want to start another thread debate on this topic); that while Harley did offer some very good advice on BS recovery, that his advice on dealing with a WS still in an A, to be nonsense. I'm referring to his plan A theory. 

Psychology is an inexact science. Whatever method used that gives the BS the best outcome; I'm all for. To me though, TAM provides the blue collar, common since approach; and that's what worked best for me. I dare say for many others as well.


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

I lurked in various sites for 2 years before registering in Tam. Some like DB are abominations. MB is not a site but rather a cult. SI is good but couldn't register. Tam is brutal. Definitely brutal. WS s here are always targeted, many times in a sadistic way by those who might have been begging and crying in front of their WS s. But there those who understand, who'll reach out to you if you are patient enough. 

There are those who survived the loss of their families and parts of their lives not only preserving their sanity but with admirable dignity. There are those who know they can pack up and leave but don't because they know nothing other than staying true to their promises. There are those who fell but fight for redemption and their families every day. They are the ones that make Tam worth visiting. Thank you all, especially WS s for your time here.


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## Trying95 (May 24, 2013)

I ended up at Marriage Sherpa and had physical materials that I tried to use with my husband. I should have gotten a clue when he said he couldn't do some of the things that the materials said he needed to do. We also had a MC whom my husband lied to, as well. We basically reached a point where I told my husband he needed to get his head fixed and show that he wanted to make it work with me or I was done. He was on cholesterol medicine and an anti depressant when his EA started. I didn't know him anymore form the effects of the meds. He finally found a therapist that helped him get off the anti depressant early this year. DD1 for me was Dec 5th, 2011. I found TAM late 2012 and lurked, reading and learning. He now actually communicates with me, decided he needed to be open and honest with me and he is finally starting to become the person I fell in love with. The medicine effects seem to be fading from his brain, a little at a time. TAM has given me strategies to use, especially when he didn't think that what he was doing was an affair. Took a long time to get that admission....


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Blonde said:


> Anger is powerful and motivating but it should be a passing phase, not a place to stay forever.
> 
> Not sure about other sites? but in some ways the CWI culture at TAM seems to me to feed bitterness and encourage punitive vengeful actions and some divorced BH's come across as pretty suspicious and hateful toward women in general
> 
> ...


 I can agree with you but I think the varying aspect is the relative ease a women can land a man vs a women effort, which truth be told is nil, it is just up to her preference and willingness to accept whoever is eager to please her. 

A betrayed man that gets involved, temporarily or otherwise, soon after a split or being dumped is merely trying to reestablish some sort of emotional fulfillment but also risks getting into a damaging rebound relationship. I mean lets face it, men need sex almost as bad as oxygen, some even more so ( Whistles!!!) while women have the same need but I do not think on the level of men of a consistent basis. But yes, getting another woman involved is a bad role model but so is the ex wife getting other men involved, especially near immediately after or during the marriage.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> My pattern of reconciliation did not fit TAM's typical affair response. I wasn't affiliated with any sites originally and was flying from the seat of my pants on things that worked for me in the past with my Mom and my horses and my own past infidelity. Makes me wonder how it fits any website. We did end up doing a 13 week online class through the affairrecovery website and it was really good since it addressed both WS pain and BS pain. I could type out the path I took if anyone is interested.


Interested definitely but disappointed darn it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Interested definitely but disappointed darn it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Disappointed in?


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

RV9 said:


> I lurked in various sites for 2 years before registering in Tam. Some like DB are abominations. MB is not a site but rather a cult.



What is DB and what about MB gave you that particular opinion?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

TAM wasn't my first rodeo after D-Day. I had joined others. Of the 3 or 4 I bounced around in, TAM resonated the most with me. TAM was young, under a year I think and I was made a mod within a couple of months. Of the original 7 mods, 6 were either BS's or WS's. The tone was much different then and much smaller. There was more support, understanding and thoughtful questioning of the members coming here emotionally shattered. Social and P&R were pretty much dead forums. 

I never posted much about my situation on the forum but rather relied on the other mods for support and advice. "When is Enough, Enough" was more of a personal journal and hopefully served to encourage reconciliation rather than a quest for help. I admired the sage, patience and understanding of those I communicated with and wanted to have a "success story" for others to take hold of.

TAM has become much more of a hard line in CWI. And I believe that harsh measures are often the only weapon a BS has in many circumstances. But they are not a blanket cure and can do much more damage to a relationship than good. The 180 has a range of levels that can be measured out depending on the situation. Exposure should not be the first arrow out of the quiver in most situations as it is truly the nuclear option. Phone snooping software, key loggers and VARs can tell you your spouse is still cheating or in contact but can't inclusively tell you they aren't. And in many states these can be illegal leaving the BS in even worst shape. But they all could have their place and should be considered seriously. More importantly, understood.

If I were to come to TAM today and laid out the plan I used back then, I'd be tarred and feathered as a empty-nut-sacked beta. But the plan worked and during its course, changed as the situation warranted. I made lots of mistakes but continued to ask advice from my confidants here at TAM. Over time, it succeeded. I entered my tag line when I first joined and two of the words probably had the most to do with success. A balance of confidence and patience allowed me to navigate the whole mess. TAM made a huge impact on me in striking that balance and that's why I've stayed so long. Without it, I don't think we would have made it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> TAM wasn't my first rodeo after D-Day. I had joined others. Of the 3 or 4 I bounced around in, TAM resonated the most with me. TAM was young, under a year I think and I was made a mod within a couple of months. Of the original 7 mods, 6 were either BS's or WS's. The tone was much different then and much smaller. There was more support, understanding and thoughtful questioning of the members coming here emotionally shattered. Social and P&R were pretty much dead forums.
> 
> I never posted much about my situation on the forum but rather relied on the other mods for support and advice. "When is Enough, Enough" was more of a personal journal and hopefully served to encourage reconciliation rather than a quest for help. I admired the sage, patience and understanding of those I communicated with and wanted to have a "success story" for others to take hold of.
> 
> ...


Amp, I fear some people forget where they are. Whilst they are at Coping With Infidelity, they seem confused and actually believe they are at a site called Burn all Cheaters.


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

IIJokerII said:


> What is DB and what about MB gave you that particular opinion?


Db - divorcebusters 

Mb- 'Dr harley says...' 'you are doing the plan x wrong' blah blah...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Amp, I fear some people forget where they are. Whilst they are at Coping With Infidelity, they seem confused and actually believe they are at a site called Burn all Cheaters.


Well said. WS do require dire consequences. Depends on the BS too. Seems like the level of burn depends on BS tolerances, values and response to the utter pain it causes.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Ok... this is the path I took at the request of a few to post it. You will find that part of mine follows the path and some doesn't.

Two years ago I noticed the shift in my H's behavior and I wasn't 100% sure what to make of it and it had only been a week or two, but my radar went OFF when we were at his Mom's one day and he bragged to her that there were two girls at one of the office buildings where he works that think he hung the moon. Right in that second I thought, wonder if they are on his facebook. Sure enough two new names and one of them caught my eye. So, I waited til we were at work the next week and asked him about her (TAM broken rule#1) and of course I was deflected, but I noticed holes in the story. So, I just made up my mind to not press further and watch (Back on TAM track). His behavior became more eratic and so including breaking a lunch date with me to go take something unrelated to her building (major radar) so that night I confronted the second time and it was just a very calm, help me understand what this relationship is between the two of you. He trusted me so much that he really "opened up" more than I expected and after hearing enough about how he was helping her with her marital problems and that she had slept with her husbands brother, my brain screeched to a halt when I asked how long she had been married and he told me a year. I realized right then he was in WAY over his head with a man eater. I wanted to bust apart at the seems in fear remembering back to my own infidelity with my ex and how his anger drove me straight to my AP. Holding everything I had together to keep from driving him straight to her, I closed my eyes and asked Christ for the words to say, looked at him with softness but sure "I don't care what you've done, I'm not leaving you." (Off the TAM tracks again) and I just left it there. Within a week he had cut it off on his own, its like he understood without me saying it that this was his one shot to hold onto the ONE woman who truly loved him instead of predator girl. 

So as we were navigating that first week, as I am still unaware of the full extent of what had happened, I noticed his desire all of a sudden to replace his phone and computer. So I stayed silent and the first chance I was away from him I logged into our phone records (on TAM track) and there it was, 53 pages of texting that spanned a month complete with evidence they had swapped pictures and some of the time frames brought into question not only EA but a possible PA. So that first day I knew was HELL.... I stayed away from home until I knew our son would be asleep and chose to confront a third time about what their relationship consisted of and once he realized my eyes had seen evidence of pictures, he started spilling the beans and did so for another three two months. (TAMish kindof) So we remained in survival mode complete with his struggles with suicide thoughts for a while, but after he recovered some, my own emotional trauma rose to the surface and I knew by that third month I needed outside help. 

He fought me on it and fought hard. (Totally off TAM tracks) His anger issues REALLY got bad during this time. I found a class at www.affairrecovery.com that would address both sides of infidelity and I felt very comfortable that it was a fair program, but he was digging in his heels. Took two months before he caved. And as strong as I am, can you imagine how strong he is that it took that long to cave him. Although my skills are much more refined now, but geeze, it was pure hell and this was the time of the knife incident that had me afraid for me and our son. But I was with a crappy counselor at the time who told me to go back. (WAYYYY off TAM tracks) 

We could hardly talk without fighting during this time, it was horrible and was just COMPOUNDING the original affair trauma. But we navigated the class and ended up with some amazing moments during that class that gave me hope that he was starting to "get it." But the anger was still an issue, so by the summer of last year I just shut up. I just existed in our house as I contemplated what to do with this anger. By the Fall, I was just being me and had just decided I'm going to be me and just function totally normal and his anger ramped up so much so that by Thanksgiving our son burst it tears at the thought of going back home. That's when I made a choice... 

My mother had forced me to accept abuse when I was my son's age as normal and I refused to do the same, so I made a promise to my son that he would be allowed to tell his Dad how he felt, that I would be right there with him and that we would ask his Dad to make better choices. (Still not TAM worthy since so many would be saying LEAVE HIM) So, we did. My son spoke his peace to his Dad and his Dad swore to fix it. But my H thought I was planting the idea in my son's head and did nothing. I no longer cared what he thought. We could not go out as a family and have a good time without my H's dark brooding anger the entire time. I gave him one more month, then made my final stand.

H, your anger has become chronic, big and non-responsive. I will no longer accept this as ok for our home because it is not normal. By the first of the year I expect you to have your anger issues addressed by a professional. If you do not do this by the first of the year I will be separating from you. If you still refuse after the first of the year you will be choosing to risk divorce with me. (VERY TAM since this is boundary stuff)

That was this past Dec. By Feb he had not taken me seriously enough and had even tried the "be nice" route for three weeks to "prove me wrong" and I flat out told him, you haven't done the work, my boundary still stands. He did nothing for another month, anger issues continued and after one morning of him leaving the house without speaking to me or our son to the degree that my son was in tears, I texted him and told him that because he chose such poor behavior this morning that I would be requiring him to stay away until his attitude improves. 

He left and stayed away for almost 4 months. During that time was when he started seeing professional counsel and reached out to our church. That's when he accepted that he had a problem. I told our son that his Dad was choosing poor behaviors and the reason he was gone was he was learning how to choose better. And that is exactly what he did. We remained in separate counsel until June of this year and then joined forces weekly. He had learned enough by May to return home full time and the change in him already was drastic, not perfect, but I knew enough key changes to give us a fighting chance. I DID NOT want my son raised in a broken home, so it was stay different or leave and for the time being it looked like staying different was going to work. 

During May my H committed his life to Christ, remains engaged with his mentors at our church, has made DRASTIC changes this year in so many areas that were vital to our survival. He learned to accurately self assess, which was totally missing before. He is learning his reactions are his own as are mine my own. He is learning how to not escalate. He is learning to lean on God and his support peers. He is learning to see us as the gifts that we are in his life as we view him the same and he is learning to have FUN. I've learned to navigate his vulnerable times better. One of those times was in October and we are headed into another one with this exposure looming in January. I could hear his vulnerability last night and we almost got into an argument, first one since October, but we steered clear and got to an ok place. I'm just purposing to give him the space he needs to face this event that petrifies him and support as best I can. So that is the other TAM no no, delayed exposure. I understand the sooner the better, yet in our situation, it allowed us the strength we needed to face it. Now we are exposing in a couple of weeks and the hardest parts of recovery will finally be behind us. Looking forward to that release.

I did a LOT of pressure management of when to apply pressure and when to remove it (Parelli) and relied on my faith when he started turning a corner. When I had my first moment of "we might make it" because I saw the first real change in him I sat down with a bible study by Kay Arthur and sure enough the Lord spoke to my heart about being merciful to my H, so I obeyed and trusted that He had just arrived and was now steering the ship. Deeply sweet moment.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

MB is for those who believe you can 'nice' WS back into the M by filling their 'love bank' and fixing all the complaints and issues the WS throws out as excuses for their cheating...in other words wholeheartedly accept the blameshifting and work on fixing' the M with no real consequences beyond exposure for the cheater.

Personally, I don't think this approach ever works....even those who claim it has for them appear to be major rugsweepers to me.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> MB is for those who believe you can 'nice' WS back into the M by filling their 'love bank' and fixing all the complaints and issues the WS throws out as excuses for their cheating...in other words wholeheartedly accept the blameshifting and work on fixing' the M with no real consequences beyond exposure for the cheater.
> 
> Personally, I don't think this approach ever works....even those who claim it has for them appear to be major rugsweepers to me.


While I mostly believe in the MB methods, this is where I have a problem. And I believe that is because he has never personally experienced the pain of infidelity, so he has NO real idea the trauma that it causes, no matter how many people he has helped. His methods (at least in part) do indeed appear to endorse 'nicing' the WS back in. No way I would subscribe to that. But I'll be damned if I haven't seen it work, and work many times. It's just not for me. I would need massive snot bubbles....big ones.


Now, as far as blameshifting is concerned, I have never seen Dr. H endorse the BS accepting responsibility for an affair. Accepting responsibility for the BSs part for the state of the marriage? Of course....but never an affair. That's just wrong.

Now, punishment: Just how much more punishment would you recommend doling out to a WS? If exposure for all their actions and their doing the heavy lifting to repair the damage they have done doesn't cut it, then what does? Keep in mind this is just in the cases of trying to recover, not divorce.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I found TAM and lurked here reading many threads in CWI. It has been invaluable to me, I saw everything I did right and wrong. For me this is the only site I need, you have all kinds of posters which is what I like the most. So many different views and advice.

Blossom Leigh

So sorry you had to endure all of that. I think your strength, and confidence is truly amazing. God bless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Tbh, my goal was to only help and possibly bring some clarity. I also want them to be independent, so whatever side the coin landed on, they will be fine.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Thank you drifting


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Blossom Leigh

Nothing but respect for you Blossom Leigh. You are welcome.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

TAM was the first place I came to where I felt my pain was actually understood. Even those who have done R are actually honest about the lasting pain an affair creates. I liked that I could finally hear that the way I was feeling wasn't somehow an action more reprehensible than the acts my WW pushed upon my family. I liked that, finally, the idea that the BS somehow contributed to the affair was being challenged, as if they somehow wanted their partner to screw around with somebody else.

After I caught my wife having sex with another man I immediately began to look for help. Most sites just felt like they were either trying to sugar-coat the sh!tty situation that is an affair, try to explain how humans really aren't monogamous, or some other equally absurd crap.

It took me about a year and a half to finally register, then I still lurked for almost another two and a half years. I've found a lot of help here, and I've found some discouragement. Overall I'm happy with my experience here, despite my feelings that I come here almost as an addiction.

About the anger here. Why does there have to be a timeline on somebody's anger after a life-changing event like an affair? I also acknowledge that most of the anger I've seen is from men, including myself. I know I have work to do, but I've also found no other place that sympathizes with my anger, my being a man, my problems, and the way I feel about R as a possibility so well.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I was a member with Focus on the Family forum, faith-based support site that had a whole swell of people there because of infidelity. The FotF methodized in a way Dr. James Dobson's Love Must Be Tough. I was going there when I hadn't even made the first rollercoaster drop of discovery. I started going there when my wife inexplicably kicked me out of our apartment week after we had both left our jobs and moved to the city, so she could work her first post-grad job.

To be honest, I didn't get a huge lot of support, but it felt good just venting my anxieties, but I am sure you guys can imagine what I wrote down after D-Day...I was CRUSHED. I ordered LMBT, and to be honest, it is so helpful in understanding the mind of a cheating spouse...and puts very plainly behavior how best to salvage your situation, but also how best to be at peace when you recognize it's done. 

The forum was limited in that we couldn't make any book recommends that weren't faith-based or supportive of marriage and posts weren't automatically posted...as moderators reviewed them first. I developed a reputation for good, understanding advice and got my comments posted quickly, but I did get a couple of edits on my posts as well as an e-mail explanation of why one post didn't make it...as they thought a post could have been misconstrued as to suggest someone to divorce right off the bat.

Pluses were that they had pretty good resources...and I felt akin to the others who felt so devastated because I had the mindset of many others who found infidelity to be inconceivable. They shut the forum down for some reason which was when I migrated here.

I like TAM, while sure it gets its measure of trolls, people can be pretty open to say what they feel and what they are going through. It certainly sharpened my mind onto a lot of things that I was naive about. I have already helped a couple of RL friends who were in the middle of cheating hell...particularly one friend who did exactly what I told him which was "Pull your money out of the bank, now." and he did, sending his cheating wife begging at his door the very next day.


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## HobbesTheTiger (Apr 7, 2014)

One thing I would like for TAM to add is a special section for Wayward spouses, where the poster/wayward spouses could put a stop sign on their thread which would allow only other (former) wayward spouses to post. I think this would greatly improve the chances of those wayward spouses staying here instead of being hounded off by other posters.

They have this system at SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for Those Affected by Infidelity and Cheating , and I see a lot more wayward spouses posting there than here. So I combine the two sites.

Anway, I hope a moderator or someone with influence will come across this and make a suggestion to the "powers"


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Amplexor said:


> TAM wasn't my first rodeo after D-Day. I had joined others. Of the 3 or 4 I bounced around in, TAM resonated the most with me. TAM was young, under a year I think and I was made a mod within a couple of months. Of the original 7 mods, 6 were either BS's or WS's. The tone was much different then and much smaller. There was more support, understanding and thoughtful questioning of the members coming here emotionally shattered. Social and P&R were pretty much dead forums.
> 
> I never posted much about my situation on the forum but rather relied on the other mods for support and advice. "When is Enough, Enough" was more of a personal journal and hopefully served to encourage reconciliation rather than a quest for help. I admired the sage, patience and understanding of those I communicated with and wanted to have a "success story" for others to take hold of.
> 
> ...


 Amp, 

I think it goes without saying that your situation was, is, unique to yourself like all of ours are and thus the course of action you chose worked because perhaps your former wayward may not have been as ruthless or destructive as some of the other one's that have come thru here and other places. 

What I have seen from the community here is a very text book list of complaints the betrayed listed from their SO's who, regardless of gender, will either blame their betrayed partner or tell a tale of horror they bestowed upon their loved one's which inevitably is followed by a "But". " Yeah, I shattered my family's lifestyle and emotional well being and am a terrible person for doing so, but..."

This is frightening enough since this tells of a point of view that suggests they aren't as out of the unhappy zone as one might believe. I also suggest that the patience of the people here is very high considering some of these threads, including mine, contain hundreds of posts and not thousands. They are usually rife with the proper course of action in the beginning (Exposure, Divorce papers, 180, Etc) yet most cannot or refuse to enact these actions to do what is necessary to save their marriages, if not themselves. Ask most of these people who have elongated threads if they'd do it differently and the answer would most definitely be a yes. I got lucky when I initiated my Divorce since I caught her in a vulnerable moment while other's are still lamenting about the dire and depressive nature of their situation.

You may also ask yourself Amp if you got the whole story as well. During another brief exchange me and you had you mentioned that although you went all "Beta" you did at one point lay down the choice, you or the OM, left for a conference and came back with her choosing you. Now I am not accusing anything, but did you get the truthful reasoning's as to why she stayed. Did she not wish to trade the stability of a " Routine" lifestyle for the exciting yet unstable one of a new relationship. Did the OM break it off once you showed her the door since he wanted nothing serious? In plain, were the circumstances of her staying beyond her control and influence and she simply took ownership of the situation as a choice and not a circumstance?

What the people here insist on is the truth of the matter and from what I am experiencing and have seen on others the threat of the end and realization of the consequences at hand either end the affair of push the wayward out of the marriage akin to removing a cancerous tumor. It accelerates the process which frankly is beneficial to all parties involved. During my Wife's first EA years ago I too went beta and demanded nothing of transparency or other respectful relationship needs. Sure, she stayed, but not due to some strong sense of commitment or losing her husband, but because the OM pussed out and did not divorce his wife and/or found out my Wife was still who she was and he decided against it. During this "Recon" period I had no idea they were still talking yet was happy nonetheless since I was fortunate enough to be the "Chosen" one. It went on for nearly a year before I found out much later.

But to refocus on the MB concept, I think the one story that left me thinking about what a marriage should be like was a strange one. A BH who desperately wanted to stay married and followed the plan had, after nearly a year, emotionally given up and moved onto another woman who filled this void. In conjunction with this his wife, yes they never Divorced, and her OM fell apart and suddenly plan B became the focal point for the MB community. This poor man whose words earned the sorrow of many, including me, had finally moved on due to his wifes infidelity and then suddenly HE became the wayward, the target, of condemnation. All the while support was going towards her for her lost marriage and her feelings of betrayal. 

At this point I thought that the logic of her actions had escaped the very people who once thought of her as the enemy. After reading the post of this woman not once did anyone mention that "Well you kinda can't get too angry about it cause you were the one who left for greener pastures" . I suppose the absence of responsibility was what bothered me, not necessarily the lack of aggression or tar and feather approach (Grease and Spoon to those familiar with Tail Spin). And in this is where the TAM community pulls no punches about the true methodology of cause and effect.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

For most, until a catastrophic event occurs, they will not change their behavioral patterns. While they are gratifying their reward center, they do not want to change. An affair is making them feel good, and if they want to be rewarded, they must continue on that path. Only those few who are more self-aware can see the outcome of future consequences and stop their actions. Usually, until consequences and reality impedes into their life, only then they view the cause and effects of their actions. It becomes reward vs consequences, and some choose reward thinking it will provide greener pastures.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

TAM is the first and only place I came. I kept doing Google searches of "low sex" and "no sex" marriages and kept finding articles with superficial advice on how to put the "sizzle" back in your sex life. Huh? How about how to resurrect a completely dead sex life?!

I landed on TAM threads a couple of times. To my astonishment, many people were in the same boat as me, and reading others' stories, feeling their emotions as they poured their hearts and souls into their posts, and then of course reading all the practical advice gave me hope that there really IS a better life if you want to make one for yourself. It gave me the courage to realize that I didn't have to settle for a sexless marriage.

I stuck around...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> TAM wasn't my first rodeo after D-Day. I had joined others. Of the 3 or 4 I bounced around in, TAM resonated the most with me. TAM was young, under a year I think and I was made a mod within a couple of months. Of the original 7 mods, 6 were either BS's or WS's. The tone was much different then and much smaller. There was more support, understanding and thoughtful questioning of the members coming here emotionally shattered. Social and P&R were pretty much dead forums.
> 
> I never posted much about my situation on the forum but rather relied on the other mods for support and advice. "When is Enough, Enough" was more of a personal journal and hopefully served to encourage reconciliation rather than a quest for help. I admired the sage, patience and understanding of those I communicated with and wanted to have a "success story" for others to take hold of.
> 
> ...


Amp. You still come off as very beta LOL!!! But your process worked for you and your outcome was satisfactory to you.

I really don't approve of a soft approach to infidelity. I don't believe one size fits all but once the infidelity line has been crossed there needs to be some hard course that is implemented and fast.

The soft tact is extremely beneficial to strengthen, build or restore marriage however.

I can see your point as well. What looks like garbage and is unacceptable to me may well be satisfying and treasured to another. I am going to keep your point of view in mind in the future.

One thing I will never back down on is accepting any unhealthy behavior from either WS or BS.

I love that TAM is harsh and brutal because infidelity is harsh and brutal. Truth is terrible, ugly and beautiful. TAM has a lot of raw truth.

I searched many other sites looking for help in understanding female infidelity. I became part of a church at age 26 and was blown away by how many marital problems including infidelity were running, unchecked, through the church!

I was extremely frustrated as wife after wife broke their families for the sake of their crotch monsters and the husband was told it was his fault. Sexual sin was all put on men and if women did stray, it must have been the fault of the husband.

During my early church years as I studied and started going through seminary, one of my best friends committed suicide after his ww led him away from his friends and family to another state to be closer to her pos. He did it on the advise of idiots posing as pastors and marriage counselors that told him he needed to sacrifice to make his wife happy. He had no support from church and counselors. He was told to be a better husband so his wife would not want to stray.

He moved for her, to make his marriage better even though he had done nothing wrong. When he found out he had been betrayed again and everyone he had relied on for help and advise had led him down a path of more pain, he fvcking killed himself! 


He was given no real hope. No real help. He was the most loving, wise and gentle father I had ever seen. He worked his butt of and cared greatly for his family. He is now fvcking dead, partly, because he was told that his pain was on him and his anger was wrong and divorce was wrong and his existence became trying to "nice" his wife out of being a fvcking skank ass wh0re! 

I take this sh1t pretty fvcking seriously now. During that time, another man I knew ended his life over the pain of infidelity.

Maybe I have an interesting perspective having access to many lives and the confidence of counseling with them. Infidelity is murder on some level. It is that serious. I have had the privilege of a front row seat to view ALL the repercussions and fall out from cheating.

I have not even mentioned what I have seen happen to the kids.

I found TAM after years of research and looking for resources to help betrayed husbands. My best friend became a betrayed spouse several years ago. I knew more then and even without resources, I helped him with very hard and brutal truth.

I was not nice to his WW. I did not speak softly to her cheating ass. MY friend decided he wanted to R and I supported his decision and walked with him through hell.

We had no support from our community/church. I pissed off several prominent families and many powerful men and women in the church. I would not take their bvllsh1t advise and I would not give it to my friend. I have made enemies that have lasted to this day.

Today, she is a different woman and one of my best friends. They have one of the most successful marriages in the church and even counsel other couples. They have a beautiful 2 year old boy.

The soft approach to infidelity is a very dangerous road. I have seen far more harm than good come from it.

TAM provided much validation, resources and many more real examples of infidelity. It had a refreshing amount of exposed truth.

Smoothing over infidelity, dressing it up, using soft words to describe it, excusing or downplaying it. I see some of that here but a lot more brutal truth.

I have gained far more insight from TAM and have helped head off infidelity before it starts as well as deal better with it once that line has been crossed. I help real people, numerous families and TAM has strengthened my knowledge to do just that.

There are beautiful and healthy families that would not exist if I had not intervened and TAM has stock in those families.

I might ask a couple of the families I have helped if I could post a picture of them on my page. TAM helps. I use hard tact with infidelity. I have found that facing the ugliness head on and exposing the truth helps to address it and bury it.

I will take what you have said into consideration Amp. I would probably benefit from knowing you and learning your personality makeup.

I have found that anger, harshness and uncut truth have been extremely effective tools. They all need to be directed but are usually very necessary.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I could not agree more Conan. If you look at my responses to Zanne, I am in the same camp of knowing how deadly infidelity is even though formerly being a WS myself in my past marriage. I am GRATEFUL the Lord has opened my eyes to how murderous infidelity is and I now intentionally seek to thwart it when I sniff it out in these threads here on TAM. I would LOVE to speak to womens groups across this country regarding these marital crisis in the church... I don't think they would like my approach because it would not be nice. It would be a call to the cold hard truth and a call to escape to the ONE who can fix it. I have a booming voice and a passionate heart and no one would leave there unaffected. I now have a burning desire to fight for marriages. The destructiveness of infidelity is also the reason the need for church discipline is *crucial* and am deeply grateful my husband and I are in such a church who held his feet to the fire on two issues, the infidelity AND his abusive anger. So, GREAT POST Conan:smthumbup:

If I can change... so can Zanne and other WS. We HAVE TO!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

IIJokerII said:


> Amp,
> 
> I think it goes without saying that your situation was, is, unique to yourself like all of ours are and thus the course of action you chose worked because perhaps your former wayward may not have been as ruthless or destructive as some of the other one's that have come thru here and other places.


I believe they are all unique, but generally have several common threads. Was she ruthless and destructive? No and that makes recovery and forgiveness a better chance. But I, like many here thought I "knew" her. As many find out, she was so far into the fog that I wasn't dealing with my wife, my love any more, this was a different person or mindset. All betrayers rationalize their behavior by blaming the out in the cold spouse. But in a situation that is completely a long distance EA the boundaries are a bit grayer. The relationship never goes physical no boundaries have been crossed so the WS convinces themselves it is OK. In many situations, an EA is much more difficult to kill than a PA because the WS has convinced themselves it is harmless. If you are suggesting my situation was not as dire as many here, you are correct. Many have it much worse, many have spouses that are unwilling, some are broken beyond repair. But we were very broken. From the alcohol fueled, "You were the biggest ****ing mistake in my life" to the stone cold sober and sobering "The thought of you touching me like that repulses me" I knew we were in a very deep hole that we might not get out of. 





IIJokerII said:


> You may also ask yourself Amp if you got the whole story as well. During another brief exchange me and you had you mentioned that although you went all "Beta" you did at one point lay down the choice, you or the OM, left for a conference and came back with her choosing you. Now I am not accusing anything, but did you get the truthful reasoning's as to why she stayed. Did she not wish to trade the stability of a " Routine" lifestyle for the exciting yet unstable one of a new relationship. Did the OM break it off once you showed her the door since he wanted nothing serious? In plain, were the circumstances of her staying beyond her control and influence and she simply took ownership of the situation as a choice and not a circumstance?


I have no doubt why she chose to end the relationship and stay in the marriage. When we had the conversation on my return her answer was full of resentment and anger towards me. "I've terminated the relationship!" My response was "Good, I'm glad you have done that. I understand you are not doing this for me. You are doing it for the boys." The statement completely stunned her because I was fine with that.

There are emotional and logistical reasons people stay in a broken marriage. Her decision to stay was not because of an emotional tie to me, it was logistical. To protect our kids. I am sure the second logistical reason was financial stability, as I make considerably more money than her. So, maybe I came in third, which is fine. It wasn't about my ego it was about the next step. I didn't care that she didn't choose me. I was pretty methodical in the process by then. My goal was was reached. Cut the cancer out of the marriage and I didn't much care how it was done, as long as it was. Now we could work on forgiveness and rebuilding the marriage.

As far as the discussion about the MB Love Bank and the TAM 2X4, I am a firm believer you cannot nice your spouse out of an affair. At best you will simply be treading water, at worst they will retreat even further losing respect along the way as my wife did in the first few months after D-Day. You may prove to them that recovery is important and that you respect what they desire to find in your marriage but emotionally it won't bring them back towards you. That can't happen until the affair is dead. Often to do that requires risk and going against your what your heart tells you to do. The BS needs to understand why the tougher measures are needed and which ones to use. Too many shot gun it and **** it up even worse. They also need to go through the process of letting go of the marriage. To walk through that door of "what if" I leave her/him and believe that they will be OK. Once you do that, the tougher steps are a lot easier to take.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

I always find something in the viewpoint of your statements. Thanks for the response.


I wonder.....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Just in case you missed it Amp. I appreciate you and I am going to devote some time to studying you and your perspective. 

Thanks for being part of TAM.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I could not agree more Conan. If you look at my responses to Zanne, I am in the same camp of knowing how deadly infidelity is even though formerly being a WS myself in my past marriage. I am GRATEFUL the Lord has opened my eyes to how murderous infidelity is and I now intentionally seek to thwart it when I sniff it out in these threads here on TAM. I would LOVE to speak to womens groups across this country regarding these marital crisis in the church... I don't think they would like my approach because it would not be nice. It would be a call to the cold hard truth and a call to escape to the ONE who can fix it. I have a booming voice and a passionate heart and no one would leave there unaffected. I now have a burning desire to fight for marriages. The destructiveness of infidelity is also the reason the need for church discipline is *crucial* and am deeply grateful my husband and I are in such a church who held his feet to the fire on two issues, the infidelity AND his abusive anger. So, GREAT POST Conan:smthumbup:
> 
> If I can change... so can Zanne and other WS. We HAVE TO!


I really encourage you to talk about this issue with people, especially women and from your experience and perspective.

So many lives are helped with hard knowledge and a caring heart.

You might save a life that has not even been born yet. I have.

You might make enemies but you will really help families.

I say GO FOR IT! I am ordained but I have been helping with marriage before and if I ever lose it, I will still help. You are qualified to help people. I encourage you.:smthumbup:


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> During my early church years as I studied and started going through seminary, one of my best friends committed suicide after his ww led him away from his friends and family to another state to be closer to her pos. He did it on the advise of idiots posing as pastors and marriage counselors that told him he needed to sacrifice to make his wife happy. He had no support from church and counselors. He was told to be a better husband so his wife would not want to stray.
> 
> He moved for her, to make his marriage better even though he had done nothing wrong. When he found out he had been betrayed again and everyone he had relied on for help and advise had led him down a path of more pain, he fvcking killed himself!
> 
> ...


Please remember that these are the ramblings of my own mind, and that I don't think that everyone else has to be like me, but this is a perfect example of what I personally first encountered after DDay. "You're doing so good to stay by your wife." "Recovery is not only possible, but you'll have a better relationship for it." "You two are soulmates." "You have a responsibility to keep your family together, regardless what happened." "You brought this on by your lack of attention to your marriage." etc. etc. etc.

All of this so called advice and encouragement only served to drive me insane. I had questions. Serious questions, and ones I won't elaborate on because I don't want to attempt a thread jack. This pressure to stay married at all costs only served to drive me further into my depression and disconnectedness to the world. The thought of death was the only thing that brought me peace. Even today its a strong call, though not as bad as it used to be.

TAM helped me work through some of those suicidal moments. Perhaps more importantly, because this deals with a root issue, TAM helped me see that while R can be an important part of some people's lives that it really isn't for everyone, and it shouldn't be for everyone all the time. It was that last realization that has helped me more than anything else since my nightmare started 4 years ago.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

When the trauma wound created by infidelity is left unaddressed with accountability, unacknowledged with remorse and even justified, rugswept by those OUTSIDE of the BS, it STUNTS the ability for the BS to attempt any emotional closure on this GAPING wound. Therefore, addressing infidelity without doing those things is a GROSS injustice to the BS.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> When the trauma wound created by infidelity is left unaddressed with accountability, unacknowledged with remorse and even justified, rugswept by those OUTSIDE of the BS, it STUNTS the ability for the BS to attempt any emotional closure on this GAPING wound. Therefore, addressing infidelity without doing those things is a GROSS injustice to the BS.


YEs,yes,yes,yes,yes!!!!!! Gaping wound!!!! 

And to add it is just like a large gash in the hull of a boat. Don't worry about pumping out the water until you stop the flooding.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

IIJokerII said:


> YEs,yes,yes,yes,yes!!!!!! Gaping wound!!!!
> 
> And to add it is just like a large gash in the hull of a boat. Don't worry about pumping out the water until you stop the flooding.


Yes. 
A gaping wound.
That is exactly how I described the wound my ex-wife left when she exited
Like we had grown together and were holding each other’s hearts in one hand.

Then suddenly you look down to see a huge hole in your chest. Your heart is still there, but it is exposed to the air and the cold and your ribs have broken on exit.
You literally place your hands over the hole and try to stem the small bleeds going on, but your heart is in such pain from sudden exposure it feels like it’s about to burst.
Meanwhile your head goes into survival mode and drops a few hundred chemicals into your body to prepare for a fight that it can’t win.

So now you are in pain, hyper vigilant and ready to fight but so down on things you don’t have the heart to fight.
They wonder why you are hostile…it’s because you have a gaping hole in your chest where their love was once firmly housed.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Yes.
> A gaping wound.
> That is exactly how I described the wound my ex-wife left when she exited
> Like we had grown together and were holding each other’s hearts in one hand.
> ...


omg that made me cry... that is exactly it


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Here's two other website that are like to this one

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for Those Affected by Infidelity and Cheating

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/#romantic


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## Trying95 (May 24, 2013)

SamuraiJack said:


> Yes.
> A gaping wound.
> That is exactly how I described the wound my ex-wife left when she exited
> Like we had grown together and were holding each other’s hearts in one hand.
> ...


So true!!! So many times my heart was beating so fast I thought it would just ooze out of my chest.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

The other thing I came to accept, if not appreciate, was the TAM community and their honesty regarding the need to File for Divorce, a end result I did not want. While most other marriage forums hinted at this most other's resisted this idea at all costs. 

The MLC forums were rife with people who refused to leave their spouses and tolerated whatever behavior their significant other enacted on them, and the children, and although the idea of being the beacon or lighthouse in the fog and darkness of infidelity is a romantic one to be sure, it is not healthy to remain in a state of emotional abuse in case the ship wants to return to port due to the storm being to dangerous to navigate thru. 

This acceptance was the last thing I was prepared to do. But after seeing the STBXW stockpile funds, talk to others about wanting a Divorce and refusing to talk about anything I now have come to realize that although her original affair ended she had attached to a new one almost immediately thus keeping the so called fog in place. 

Back then, I was confused since I thought maybe, just maybe, it was, is me. I do suck, I am the reason she wanted to leave, disconnect and was the reason for disconnecting from the children too since she knew I would not give them up in her care due to her behavior, which she also blamed on me. Maybe her reactions were the sum of my ineptitude at being her husband, at not being the type of guy she wanted all along. 

Had it not been for these people here I can say with no uncertainty that she may have attacked hard when the time was right. The TAM community, who had seen it all played out before, knew the writing on the wall. And after I caught her again and found out that her answer to going clear was to file for Divorce the fact of the matter was unable to be ignored any longer.

But I also kind of remember her saying with a disappointed look " Why would anyone want to be with me, a single mother at 32 with three kids" and then realized that maybe her plan all along was to entice me into Filing for Divorce so she could play the victim as well as the martyr. She would lament to me about the need for this since she wanted her children to see her in a healthy state of mind all the time when they see her, vs the few times she may have been level headed whilst home. I also think her belly up approach in court was also a silent nod to her destructive behavior as being no longer tolerable and uncontrollable in the home. 

That statement though, it does have weight and if she does go quietly it will invariably be the truth. I suppose Divorce is the only way to go sometimes. Try getting that from MB's


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Yes it is when they are unrepentent.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yes it is when they are unrepentent.


 For sh1ts and giggles I went to Amazon to see what others thought about the Surviving an Affair book, which liked when I initially read it. It odes receive mostly good reviews however the 1 star reviews cite the betrayed spouses inability to hurt and how they are supposed to provide a happy and loving environment in spite of the great pain they caused. 

I think I'll re-read this sometime and see what I draw from it in a not so weak state of mind.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Yea, I'm not a proponent of rugsweeping/enabling adultery to keep the peace. I'm a proponent of reasonable accountability.

I threw a life line to my H but I would have not tolerated an ongoing relationship between them. My H was wise in that moment and cut it off on his own.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Blonde said:


> Anger is powerful and motivating but it should be a passing phase, not a place to stay forever.
> 
> Not sure about other sites? but in some ways the CWI culture at TAM seems to me to feed bitterness and encourage punitive vengeful actions and some divorced BH's come across as pretty suspicious and hateful toward women in general
> 
> ...


Can you link me to a BW is a **** post ?


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> Can you link me to a BW is a **** post ?


Can't link (on phone), but the thread in this section "feeling good again" - bw posts about moving forward with a new relationship and us attacked until she explicitly replies that yes, she is separated from her WH. That same day I recall 2 other threads with a similar message were posted by BHs and no one questioned them. I've noticed the same thing as Blonde many times, and I think thats partially why so many BW go to / stay at SI vs TAM. It's a shame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

dignityhonorpride said:


> Can't link (on phone), but the thread in this section "feeling good again" - bw posts about moving forward with a new relationship and us attacked until she explicitly replies that yes, she is separated from her WH. That same day I recall 2 other threads with a similar message were posted by BHs and no one questioned them. I've noticed the same thing as Blonde many times, and I think thats partially why so many BW go to / stay at SI vs TAM. It's a shame.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Agreed, it is not a good idea to go out and get laid right away. Many factors such as poor self esteem, ego deflation, and general vulnerability allow any betrayed spouse susceptible to falling right into a rebound relationship, and heaven forbid it is with some one who reminds them of their former love's self, thus the cycle would continue, leave this new person open to absorb the pain and hurt meant to be for the WS.

I kind of fell into this after my sons mother voided our relationship for another 15 years ago. Soon after I hooked up with a girl who was attractive, highly sexual and eager to please. However I treated her like crap indirectly.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I was reading TAM along with DB, MB, SI and the others. At first, I found TAM really harsh, as if I had stepped into some kind of nightmare world where WS's operated like predictable androids without any empathy or recognition "underneath" that BS's crave. Turns out TAM was the most correct in the general approach to saving one's dignity, de-fogging a WS and good play-by-play explanation of WS's actions. The other sites are much more delusional and I expect their success rate is low. I like Harley's concept of love busters but the Plan A and Plan B stuff is really crap in my opinion. Open invitation for getting walked on and self-degradation IMO. Which will make you feel even worse. Don't go against your gut. 

I much prefer the advice here on TAM, to fuel one's anger and grief productively and to really grasp the insane mind of a wayward, anticipate their moves and apply evo psych to the situation. And to decide on what is best for you, the BS, and to not disregard the sickness and disgust you feel inside. Know your dealbreakers. I saw great advice on TAM, but did not always implement it myself. I made some shameful rookie mistakes early which gave my WS the upper hand, caused in large part by her telling me a day before a family vacation and I masked that D-Day and anger and mind movies while in shock. People really need a place to go and experience the raw emotions, either alone or with people who support them. Having TAM support was very useful - finally, someone who really understands. 

I think what will drive a newbie to TAM insane is when posters simply advise "Divorce her" or "Let her go" as if that can be done with the snap of a finger. It's like what, you want me to go start a new hobby while my world is falling apart? Not really possible. Veterans see so many threads on here, it doesn't always get 'personalized' unless a poster jives well with the advice the originally receive. 

And.. the web aesthetic of TAM is really horrible. It needs an upgrade.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

As a completely unbiased party, I fully agree.

Still hate the pink and blue though ...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

staystrong said:


> I think what will drive a newbie to TAM insane is when posters simply advise "Divorce her" or "Let her go" as if that can be done with the snap of a finger. It's like what, you want me to go start a new hobby while my world is falling apart? Not really possible. Veterans see so many threads on here, it doesn't always get 'personalized' unless a poster jives well with the advice the originally receive.


I think about this when I post simple replies like "File for divorce", "Kick her to the curb", etc, but geez... I just don't always have it in me to hammer out the same freaking line-by-line analysis over and over and over. So there's a thought... maybe (in those instances) I should just refrain from replying at all. Food for thought.



staystrong said:


> And.. the web aesthetic of TAM is really horrible. It needs an upgrade.


Dude. Yes.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> I think about this when I post simple replies like "File for divorce", "Kick her to the curb", etc, but geez... I just don't always have it in me to hammer out the same freaking line-by-line analysis over and over and over. So there's a thought... maybe (in those instances) I should just refrain from replying at all. Food for thought.


Well Gus the problem is not one of denial but Chronological consequence. The Cheater has a head start on the emotional detachment from their chumped out spouse, they have taken a fair amount of time to get to where they are as most, if not all, gradually go from being happily married to marital hell in months, sometime even years or maybe even weeks. 

The scale of compassion and malice is already in the cheaters favor and only a swift and furious motion can undue or at least possibly stop the bleeding, yet it will take almost the same amount of time for the BS to do what is needed and push back only when their own detachment level is reached. 

It took me nearly a year to date to do what needed to be done. Had I been as swift and vigilant back in February of 2014 maybe I might have had a chance. Even still, after I detached from her emotionally I got a chance to see what I was married to and seeing that no changes could undue the abuse or malice she did behind the scenes, as well as no intention to even try I can say that TAM steered me into the right direction.

Had I tried the Marriage builder way I might have saved my marriage, but had a ticking time bomb. And depending on your view point it remains an open question as to who the bomb would be; Me or her.

I can say to my children, or anyone, that I tried my best, fought until the end. However something's I guess are simply not meant to be. And in private I had at times damned TAM for being right. But I suppose that aiding the chumps that come here is indeed like herding cats and pissing in a pair of dark pants; It's a nice warm feeling, but nobody will notice but yourself.


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