# Feeling Uncomfortable



## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

My wife is 46 and I'm 48. We have been married for 5 years. I am her second husband and she is my second wife. After she and her first husband separated, she turned to a high school guy friend for counseling and they also had sex several times. She was never interested in dating this guy, Jim, and continued on to date several other men before meeting me. She never cheated on the men she dated. Jim was just a friend with benefits at the time. 

Fast forward to present day. She and I have been married 5 years and to my knowledge has never cheated. Jim is now going through a divorce with his third wife and has sought my wife out for counseling. When she first told me she was counseling Jim, I didnt react well. I was jealous and irritated. One weekend, she and members of her family went to a local bar. I could not attend as I was working that night. Jim texted her saying he and his buddy were out drinking at a different bar. She invited Jim and his friend to join her and her family at the bar they were at, which they did. She didnt tell me that Jim and his buddy had attended. But one of her girl friends from work did tell me that Jim and his buddy were there. I confronted her with that information and she confirmed Jim and his friend were there. She said she didnt tell me because she was afraid I would freak out. Which is true, I probably would have. 

She is still texting Jim, not every day, but she responds to him when he texts her with some new detail about his soon to be ex wife. I have seen the texts between them as I have access to her phone and have looked at the texts while she was asleep. The texts themselves have not crossed any lines. She appears to be just counseling Jim. 

I am uncomfortable with them texting each other. Maybe it's my own insecurities at play here, but I feel that Jim ought to get a professional therapist for counseling and stop using my wife as his sounding board. She has agreed to be honest with me and tell me if they ever meet up again. To my knowledge it has not happened again. So am I in the wrong here? I feel like Jim would jump at the chance to sleep with my wife again and I worry that an emotional affair may start up. She has even suggested I meet Jim sometime, to which i replied "oh hell no!" To me, Jim is the enemy and cannot be trusted. What do you all think? Am i being unreasonable in this situation?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Doesn't seem very appropriate for her to be in contact.

Why does he need counseling from your wife?

He can get it somewhere else.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Seems to me that Jim is looking for a special kind of “counseling” from your wife. You are not being unreasonable and since they were once **** buddies, she wouldn’t be in contact with him.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

I cannot tell you how many times we have seen on TAM that "counseling" led to an emotional and then physical affair. This is a big Red Flag. The fact that they were lovers before would disqualify their relationship as confidants in the here and now. If you are able to quash this, I would still be watchful that their "counseling" not go underground by some method that you do not have access to.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Chrono,

If ex'es of any description are toxic then someone she was intimate with is radioactive and toxic.

The fact that she thinks this is OK should give you pause, she may not really be a safe spouse for you. 

And the fact that she would not tell you she intentionally met with him while DRINKING should raise 5 more red flags. 

What do you know about your WWs history with her exH is it fabricated does she claim her exH cheated on her when in fact she cheated on him?

Yes you should meet with him and tell him any contact with your W ever will not be tolerated.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, considering how their previous “counseling” turned out I would say you have cause for concern. He’ll need to find another “counselor”.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Chronotrigger said:


> .....I didnt react well.


Good and proper.

Are both Jim and your wife professionally trained counsellors?

I assume not.

I hate to assign adulterous motives, but I fear this thread will end up in the ''Coping with Infidelity'' subforum if this isn't nipped in the bud tout suite.

Nothing fuels the loins of two former lovers with an emotional bond as helping with a breakup. 

Stamp it out.


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

I know what it's like to be cheated on. My first wife cheated on me and left. So I've told my now wife that if she cheats on me and I find out about it, then its game over for our marriage. No counseling, no groveling, no forgiveness as far as I'm concerned. If she cheats, we are done. Cheating to me means a physical affair. I can handle an EA to some extent. But a PA, no.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

This is SO beyond inappropriate, on SO many levels. Omfg I can't believe what I'm reading.

Back when Jim was "counselling" your wife post separation, they were both single! She is now married! He needs to f off and find another "counsellor" now.

No way in hades would I tolerate this, nor would my husband.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Chronotrigger said:


> She has even suggested I meet Jim sometime, to which i replied "oh hell no!" To me, Jim is the enemy and cannot be trusted. What do you all think? Am i being unreasonable in this situation?



No. You are being quite reasonable.

She is either just being played by Jim or/(and?) trying to play you.

Unhealthy situation for your marriage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Totally inappropriate considering she had a sexual relationship with him before. She is now married and should respect the marriage. Anyway, she is not a professional counselor he should get one.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Chronotrigger said:


> To me, Jim is the enemy and cannot be trusted. What do you all think? Am i being unreasonable in this situation?


 Your only 'enemy' is your *wife*.

The one who can't even show you the same damned *RESPECT* most of us show the common stranger out on the street. _That_ wife.

There are men who can't accept that their wives are CHOOSING to make themselves very available to these guys, and that their wives are the REAL problem. Instead, they delude themselves into thinking that if they go deal with the "bad" guy and make him go away, then their *innocent* wives will be kept pure for them and the big, bad wolf can no longer hurt them. * The fact that their wives continually CHOSE to be with these guys *completely contradicts their silly belief that it's all the man's fault, so they conveniently forgot that part. I've actually read stories on here on TAM where the guy thinks he "successfully" reconciled because he scared off the man his wife was *happily* spending way too much time with - which left her with no choice but to go back to him because her love interest was gone. 

How* that *can be seen as a success is beyond me. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, I guess.

Don't be delusional like that. *SHE'S *your problem, not him. Scaring him off doesn't SOLVE the fact that she's more than happy and willing to text him and sneak him to family get togethers behind your back. God only knows what else they're doing.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Was Jim married when your wife turned to him for 'counseling'? Those two have given counseling a whole new definition. What they are really doing is looking for a shoulder to cry on. Your wife's shoulders are taken.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

So it's ok if your wife gives her heart to Jim, and for the moment give you her vag, and your a happy clam. Your settling for the leftovers while Jim gets it fresh off the stove. Your first wife sure succeeded in making you believe this type of crap.

Your just one, kind word and action, away from being single again. And you believe it's ok for her emotional heart to be fine but it is only a matter of time before she gives that one away too.

Have her End it!! with Jim if she wants to be with you. And as far as her loving you , l wouldn't trust her any further than you can toss a 10lb bag of crap.

Her meeting with Jim behind your back says she do anything she wants with no consideration for you and your marriage to her. I believe you already lost the battle and your both waiting to end the war.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

I suspect regular folks (non-TAMers, and other people who haven't read 10,000 pages of heartbreak in the Coping w/ Infidelity subforum) might think we're overreacting. 

No, sir.

(blast!, there's a book that's usually recommended for this situation, and I'm totally blanking...)


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

OnTheFly said:


> I suspect regular folks (non-TAMers, and other people who haven't read 10,000 pages of heartbreak in the Coping w/ Infidelity subforum) might think we're overreacting.
> 
> No, sir.
> 
> (blast!, there's a book that's usually recommended for this situation, and I'm totally blanking...)


Not Just Friends?


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Call me old fashioned, but if my wife has played with a guys genitals ,or he hers, I don't want her to have contact with him. Same goes for me.

Hell as Shesstillgotit pointed out, she (or I to reverse it) shouldn't WANT to be "friends" with these people. That's a problem in and of itself.


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

Let me give a little more backstory - my wife had weight loss surgery about a year ago. She's lost a lot of weight and looks beautiful, but I always thought she was beautiful, even when she was heavier. And I told her so, all the time. Since she lost the weight, she seems obsessed with her looks, looking young and beautiful and she stresses out about aging. Everyone I've talked to about her says she's going through some kind of mid-life crisis and is craving attention from anywhere she can get it. And that may be what's driving her to talk to Jim - she isn't satisfied with the attention that I give her so she's getting it elsewhere. Now I'm not telling you this as a means of justifying her recent behavior - it's just a piece of the puzzle. 

That being said, there are new developments. The wife woke up late last night and decided to text Jim. I have my kids every other week and weekend. On the weekends I have kids, I usually stay home with them and the wife goes out to her hometown (about an hour and 15 minutes away) to visit her brother, sister in law and their kids. Her father and step-mother also live down there. But so does Jim. She told Jim last night that when she visits her brother and sister in law on the weekends that I'm not there that he's free to be their "third wheel anytime" and go bowling with the family. I'm betting she doesn't plan on telling me if they meet. No, I am not okay with this... more on that in a minute.

I've been seeing a counselor for about a month now. We've mostly talked about the marriage and the counselor knows the full situation with Jim. I've told the counselor all I can about the marriage and what's going on - she now wants to hear the wife's side of things. The wife agreed to go to a session with me, so we are going tomorrow. The counselor says she will spend about 40 minutes talking with the wife without me and then bring me into the session for the last 20 minutes. I have asked the counselor to stress to my wife that this 'relationship' with Jim is inappropriate and disrespectful to our marriage. She will also stress that Jim needs to seek out a professional counselor and quit using the wife for therapy.

After the counseling session, one of two things (or both) is going to happen if the wife continues to 'counsel' Jim:

1. I am going to tell her that the relationship with Jim has to end and she must either choose her marriage or this thing going on with Jim, but that because of their past, she cannot have both. 

2. I am going to text Jim (yes, I have his number) and tell him to back off, that his relationship with my wife is inappropriate.

If the wife chooses not to be with me anymore, or continues talking to Jim behind my back, then I'll tell her to leave. Also, I will be making her file for the divorce and pay for it. I paid for the divorce to my first wife and I shouldn't have had to since she was the one that cheated. That's not going to happen again. And when the wife comes to her senses and realizes what she's lost, no amount of apologizing, groveling or crying is going to bring me back. I can afford to live on my own, with my two kids. She can't. But, that's not my problem if we split up now is it?


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> I know what it's like to be cheated on. My first wife cheated on me and left. So I've told my now wife that if she cheats on me and I find out about it, then its game over for our marriage. No counseling, no groveling, no forgiveness as far as I'm concerned. If she cheats, we are done. Cheating to me means a physical affair. I can handle an EA to some extent. But a PA, no.


No to EA as well.

Too many EA turned into PA.

Shut her EA down now.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Well I'd get this sorted out soon, because the longer you are married the more you could be on the hook for paying spousal support and more and more equity that will be shared with her. No one really cares (in the legal world) if it's her who is texting and bowling with another man. Time is what counts at this point. Another day another dollar.


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Well I'd get this sorted out soon, because the longer you are married the more you could be on the hook for paying spousal support and more and more equity that will be shared with her. No one really cares (in the legal world) if it's her who is texting and bowling with another man. Time is what counts at this point. Another day another dollar.


This WILL get sorted out very soon. Counseling with a cold splash of water to her face tomorrow and then seeing what she does in the next week. If the relationship continues in the week after counseling, then she will be choosing between Jim and me.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> Let me give a little more backstory - my wife had weight loss surgery about a year ago. She's lost a lot of weight and looks beautiful, but I always thought she was beautiful, even when she was heavier. And I told her so, all the time. Since she lost the weight, she seems obsessed with her looks, looking young and beautiful and she stresses out about aging. Everyone I've talked to about her says she's going through some kind of mid-life crisis and is craving attention from anywhere she can get it. And that may be what's driving her to talk to Jim - she isn't satisfied with the attention that I give her so she's getting it elsewhere. Now I'm not telling you this as a means of justifying her recent behavior - it's just a piece of the puzzle.
> 
> That being said, there are new developments. The wife woke up late last night and decided to text Jim. I have my kids every other week and weekend. On the weekends I have kids, I usually stay home with them and the wife goes out to her hometown (about an hour and 15 minutes away) to visit her brother, sister in law and their kids. Her father and step-mother also live down there. But so does Jim. She told Jim last night that when she visits her brother and sister in law on the weekends that I'm not there that he's free to be their "third wheel anytime" and go bowling with the family. I'm betting she doesn't plan on telling me if they meet. No, I am not okay with this... more on that in a minute.
> 
> ...


now you tell us this story.

bad that your WW leaves when you have your kids.

ten times worse with this:
definite EA with WW texting OM in the middle of the night inviting
the OM on dates with her using the 3rd wheel excuse.

Did your WW cheat in her first marriage? I would go talk to her exhusband.
then no more trips allowed alone to any where the OM is.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard a wife had a huge weight loss
and she became an attention puttana from all of the new and sudden male
attention.


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## redwingpentagon (Apr 10, 2019)

Middle of Everything said:


> Call me old fashioned, but if my wife has played with a guys genitals ,or he hers, I don't want her to have contact with him. Same goes for me.
> 
> Hell as Shesstillgotit pointed out, she (or I to reverse it) shouldn't WANT to be "friends" with these people. That's a problem in and of itself.



I could not agree more its just to much to thow in your wife husbands face!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> Let me give a little more backstory - my wife had weight loss surgery about a year ago. She's lost a lot of weight and looks beautiful, but I always thought she was beautiful, even when she was heavier. And I told her so, all the time. Since she lost the weight, she seems obsessed with her looks, looking young and beautiful and she stresses out about aging. Everyone I've talked to about her says she's going through some kind of mid-life crisis and is craving attention from anywhere she can get it. And that may be what's driving her to talk to Jim - she isn't satisfied with the attention that I give her so she's getting it elsewhere. Now I'm not telling you this as a means of justifying her recent behavior - it's just a piece of the puzzle.
> 
> That being said, there are new developments. The wife woke up late last night and decided to text Jim. I have my kids every other week and weekend. On the weekends I have kids, I usually stay home with them and the wife goes out to her hometown (about an hour and 15 minutes away) to visit her brother, sister in law and their kids. Her father and step-mother also live down there. But so does Jim. She told Jim last night that when she visits her brother and sister in law on the weekends that I'm not there that he's free to be their "third wheel anytime" and go bowling with the family. I'm betting she doesn't plan on telling me if they meet. No, I am not okay with this... more on that in a minute.
> 
> ...


This is bad. Weight loss surgery lead to cheating a lot, a lot, a lot. 

But you are wrong about telling Jim to back off... 

You tell your wife if she sees, speaks to, texts or in anyway gets in contact with Jim you file for divorce.

Frankly, with what I have read, I am not sure I would not file now an cut my loses... 

All of this last post is not good....


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## redwingpentagon (Apr 10, 2019)

I have had a similar issue crop up. Old friend got divorced and got in touch with my wife. He had been banned from having her as a friend because of his wife. He also gave my wife a HPV infection and lied to her about it. They had one encounter 
fast forward to the friend request. she accepted it and his apology. that was nice he apologized after so many years my wife had forgiven him. Then it turned into lets get theatergoer i want to meet your family etc. I was not happy. Two months later my wife went home with or kid to play in a v ball tournament and invited this guy and his kids to watch and hang out later. No reason for this crap and i have never met him I got pretty upset. I put my foot down and told her we need to move forward and keeping in touch with a former lover is off the table i mean how can we hang out. Not liking the optics on it one bit. Plus he did LIE to her so what kinda guy is he really? I don't care if he has a girl friend now . I got the feeling he looks at my wife like the one that got away. Keeping people you slept with in your friend circle is just bad news. Its not insecurity it logic.


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

oldtruck said:


> Did your WW cheat in her first marriage? I would go talk to her exhusband.
> then no more trips allowed alone to any where the OM is.


No, she didn't cheat on her first husband. She left him because he got into illegal drugs and she wanted no part of it. After her separation from her first husband, she started talking with Jim and had sex with him several times, but she says they never dated. That was... 12 years ago. She says she was never interested in him that way, as far as dating him. 

She told me I have nothing to worry about as she's not even attracted to Jim any longer. But if she's not attracted to him (if she's telling the truth) then is it just the attention she craves from him?


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## redwingpentagon (Apr 10, 2019)

Chronotrigger said:


> No, she didn't cheat on her first husband. She left him because he got into illegal drugs and she wanted no part of it. After her separation from her first husband, she started talking with Jim and had sex with him several times, but she says they never dated. That was... 12 years ago. She says she was never interested in him that way, as far as dating him.
> 
> She told me I have nothing to worry about as she's not even attracted to Jim any longer. But if she's not attracted to him (if she's telling the truth) then is it just the attention she craves from him?


You never know its messy territory. What is she getting out of this. Is there something that your not giving her. Does she view the sex as casual. Everyone has different feelings about this. I would shut it down. Its your marriage or this friend.


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

redwingpentagon said:


> You never know its messy territory. What is she getting out of this. Is there something that your not giving her. Does she view the sex as casual. Everyone has different feelings about this. I would shut it down. Its your marriage or this friend.


I feel like she's getting attention out of this. The stupid thing is I give her plenty of attention. I get home from work before she does, and I ask her about her day when she gets home, we go do Yoga together, we go walking together, we watch TV together, (interesting fact on the Yoga - she's always wanted a man that would go and work out with her and do Yoga. I was resistant for the first few years of our marriage but I have been working out and doing Yoga with her. She told me that my doing Yoga with her "saved our marriage", so I think she must have been thinking of leaving at some point). If doing Yoga together saved our marriage, then what is there to be gained with this weird relationship with Jim??? I think nothing but trouble, so yes, I plan to make her choose between her relationship with Jim and her marriage to me.

And if she chooses to leave me, her relationship with Jim is going to go very badly for her. They may have sex again, but a relationship built on sex only lasts so long. If she was never interested in dating him in the past, then I doubt she would be now. Plus, he's going to be an emotional wreck for a while as he's going through his divorce. She's going to realize that she made a mistake choosing to leave me, and I won't be taking her back. If she chooses another man over her husband then I could never trust her again. Not to mention if she has sex with him - every time I had sex with her I would be thinking about them being together. Emotionally, I cannot handle that.


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## redwingpentagon (Apr 10, 2019)

Chronotrigger said:


> I feel like she's getting attention out of this. The stupid thing is I give her plenty of attention. I get home from work before she does, and I ask her about her day when she gets home, we go do Yoga together (interesting fact on Yoga - she's always wanted a man that would go and work out with her and do Yoga. I was resistant for the first few years of our marriage but I have been working out and doing Yoga with her. She told me that my doing Yoga with her "saved our marriage", so I think she must have been thinking of leaving at some point). If doing Yoga together saved our marriage, then what is there to be gained with this weird relationship with Jim??? I think nothing but trouble, so yes, I plan to make her choose between her relationship with Jim and her marriage to me.


Yeah sounds like you need to. Did you confront her over the attention issue? That is one things i brought up directly to my wife. Did i mention my wife also lot a lot of weight and shes looking pretty hot and just like i expected a bunch of men have tried to friend her on FB lol so predictable.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> No, she didn't cheat on her first husband. She left him because he got into illegal drugs and she wanted no part of it. After her separation from her first husband, she started talking with Jim and had sex with him several times, but she says they never dated. That was... 12 years ago. She says she was never interested in him that way, as far as dating him.
> 
> She told me I have nothing to worry about as she's not even attracted to Jim any longer. But if she's not attracted to him (if she's telling the truth) then is it just the attention she craves from him?


You are not really believing this one are you?


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

redwingpentagon said:


> and just like i expected a bunch of men have tried to friend her on FB lol so predictable.


Yeah, my wife gets Facebook requests from lots of strange guys now. The ones that message her anything suggestive have been blocked. I've seen that with my own eyes, so I know she's not looking for a random hookup. I've also paid for a web search service that looks for online dating profiles and those came out clear. I'm sure she is seeking attention because she wants to feel young and pretty again. I get the feeling she really wants it from people she knows or used to know. I'm not sure why that need exists in her brain, but it does. It's something else I'll ask the counselor to talk about tomorrow.


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## redwingpentagon (Apr 10, 2019)

Chronotrigger said:


> Yeah, my wife gets Facebook requests from lots of strange guys now. The ones that message her anything suggestive have been blocked. I've seen that with my own eyes, so I know she's not looking for a random hookup. I've also paid for a web search service that looks for online dating profiles and those came out clear. I'm sure she is seeking attention because she wants to feel young and pretty again. I get the feeling she really wants it from people she knows or used to know. I'm not sure why that need exists in her brain, but it does. It's something else I'll ask the counselor to talk about tomorrow.




Seems like a something to talk about with both her and the therapist. 
Maybe she really is being innocent and since she feels like your her one nothing should bother you .... even a guy she slept with being friends! Bounderies are another discussion you should have if you have not already. If she respects you she will choose her husband over a "friend" 
Seems friend always equals ex hook up or more believe me it true.
I wish you the best!


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Her "third wheel" invitation is very telling of what her real motives are as well as her intentional deception by omission about going out drinking with him.

Spending time with ex lovers is off limits when you are married, period...whether or not they officially dated, who cares.

This should be cut and dry. If she can't deal with that, she is already in EA and EA plus physical proximity = PA.

I think you have a serious problem here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Was Jim married at the time she had sex with him?

Here is a book that might help you. The book "provides profound, practical guidance to prevent cheating and, if it happens, recover and heal from it."

*"Not Just Friends: Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity"* by Shirley P. Glass

One of the easiest ways to for a married person to end up in an affair is for them to "counsel" someone of the opposite sex about their marital problems. It builds an intimacy that breaks down a person's walls.


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## redwingpentagon (Apr 10, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> Was Jim married at the time she had sex with him?
> 
> Here is a book that might help you. The book "provides profound, practical guidance to prevent cheating and, if it happens, recover and heal from it."
> 
> ...


Even if you not been in a affair its a good book and very helpfull. You can even get it on audio book
Its been recommended up and down on this site.


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## redwingpentagon (Apr 10, 2019)

re16 said:


> Her "third wheel" invitation is very telling of what her real motives are as well as her intentional deception by omission about going out drinking with him.
> 
> Spending time with ex lovers is off limits when you are married, period...whether or not they officially dated, who cares.
> 
> ...


Amen brother


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, it would help if you read the "Not Just Friends" book first. Then, once you have learned what it has to teach you, ask your wife to read it. Just tell her that her relationship with is guy is not acceptable to you and that the book will explain your point of view.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Friend, just the fact that you are uncomfortable with the relationship your W has with Jim should be enough for your W to curtail it. Your W does not stop which is disrespectful to you and non-caring of your feelings. Jim is not your problem. Your W is. Texting Jim is useless. Concerning your week/weekend with your kids and your W disappears to a carefree weekend doing whatever is completely wrong. Just as you help with your W kids and provide support your W should do so with your kids. I concur that your idea of your W losing weight and looking great permits others to give her attention that she enjoys. 

So, if you W pushes back while in counseling, Jim is just a friend and generally defends the relationship consider the EA is already going. 

Good luck.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your wife failed. She has broken your heart and destroyed your trust. She destroyed your trust and only she can rebuild it. It's not up to you to automatically suck it up and forgive and forget. 

The biggest mistake you can make is to not respond strongly and decisively enough. You don't have to tread lightly. She an adult who knows what you expected and she chose to cross the line anyway. 

This is no longer an innocent friendship. There is no misunderstanding on her part as to what is or is not appropriate behavior. 

She is currently being deceptive (lying to you by omission) - and pro-actively reaching out to another man. 

Inviting him to join her (and her family) was 100% inappropriate. And the fact that her family may be there is irrelevant!

Under the circumstances (their past history, lying by omission about meeting up with him at the bar, continuously texting, her need for attention and lack of boundaries), you basically caught her in the early stage of having an affair (a slippery slope that based on their past FWB is headed for a PA).

1 - Insist she go 100% NC (not even seeing him across the room).
2 - Inform her that she has 90 days to convince you that she's worthy of a second chance (or you are divorcing her). She must change her behavior to remain married to you. What you need to see her do is entirely up to you. For example, full transparency, no secret passwords, no private texting, no lying by omission because she thinks you'll be upset, no hanging out at bars with or without family. 

Why? because unless she believes you are ready to divorce her (whether it's true or not) she will not take you seriously.

Finally, IMO, this is not just about JIM. He just happens to be available low hanging fruit for her to play with. There's a long term issue here as to what she is willing to do to assure you that it will not happen again with another man.

Plus rather than talk to Jim (IMO a waste of time) it would be more productive to inform her family (don't let them pretend nothing is going on) that it is not appropriate for your wife to entertain guy friends as part of family activities.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Chronotrigger said:


> This WILL get sorted out very soon. Counseling with a cold splash of water to her face tomorrow and then seeing what she does in the next week. If the relationship continues in the week after counseling, then she will be choosing between Jim and me.


This is concerning.

Why, you ask?

Because if I told my wife that something of this nature was going to stop immediately, it would happen, or she wouldn't be my wife.

I wouldn't need a counselor to help 'convince' her that she is in the wrong.

That you do tells me you have larger problems than a wayward wife.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> This is concerning.
> 
> Why, you ask?
> 
> ...


Yes amen. This is the exact point that I don't get from people esp some men. 

There is no need here to have anyone say anything to his wife except him. 

"Wife, you will not speak to Jim in anyway or you will leave and I will present you with divorce papers."

How hard is that?


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

IMO, based on your wife's past history with the OM and current need for attention (and particularly her lying) that she is going to dismiss or minimize whatever the MC says. Why? because she shows signs of being obsessed/addicted to the texting and attention from men (Jim is just convenient). 

She may stop for a week or go underground and hide it better - but she's not going to stop just because you ask nicely.

Your wife needs to be confronted with real consequences before she considers changing her behavior (and makes you feel safe from infidelity). 

Your wife's decision is simple to understand: she must choose her marriage or the OM. Do not engage in a discussion of whether you're being reasonable. You must not accept any excuses. Show zero tolerance for sharing her time & attention with any OM.

Respond to whatever excuse or attack she uses with: 

I'm sorry you feel that way, however I refuse to share my wife's time & attention with another man (particularly an x lover). In view of her past sexual history with the OM and her lies (by omission) she must agree to 100% NC. She has the right to mentor and/or form close emotional ties to other men - but not as your wife.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Robert22205 said:


> Do not engage in a discussion of whether you're being reasonable.


She will attempt this, so follow Robert's advice exactly... a conversation about whether your boundary is reasonable is a non-starter. Hanging out with ex-lovers is out.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Her weight loss has her feeling sexy. She's putting feelers out to see who agrees. She craves the attention, but not from you. 

She was never interested in dating Jim before...it was only sex. She is still attracted to him (did you expect her to admit it), otherwise she wouldn't be doing the things she's doing.

She's still not interested in a relationship with Jim, but she's open to the sex. 

The third wheel scenario will become two wheels at some point on that outing.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

"Sure you can go out with your exFBuddy again. However I hope you have your suitcases ready because I will expect you to move out as soon as I find out. If you don't move out I'll file for divorce and MAKE you move out."


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds like she’s planning a date the next tine she’s back there. Tell her immediately that she can be married or she can continue contact with him but she can’t do both. Not with you, anyway.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Jealousy isn't attractive. It pushes women away. 

Drop it. 

If she said she isn't sexually attracted to him, she's not. If she is enjoying some new found attention, why is it any skin off your nose if she gets it? Attention doesn't translate to "ima leave my husband"

You know what's attractive? A confident man who can watch his wife turn heads, get attention and enjoy it because he knows he's the one who's going to be taking her home and making her eyes roll back in her head. 

It ain't *has-been* Jim. lol. 

YOU are the confident hot guy. Don't forget that.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

happiness27 said:


> Jealousy isn't attractive. It pushes women away.
> 
> Drop it.
> 
> ...


He's not jealous of random guys looking at his wife. 

She's actively corresponding with a dude she used to ****. 

And she's meeting up with him.

And you want him to do nothing?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I’d grab her phone and recover all the deleted texts with Jim your wife never wanted you to see. You will have your answer to what level of “consultation” she is providing.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Chrono,

What is also common here and in my experience is that a woman keeps her ex'es from before her marriage and creates an elaborate story about why he is still in her life. You should really question if Jims divorce was not caused by your W.

I think it's time for you to either polygraph or divorce, her story just smells bad.

Nothing scares me like when my W tells me she has no attraction to someone, when it's obvious that they are an attractive person.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Chronotrigger said:


> I feel like she's getting attention out of this. The stupid thing is I give her plenty of attention. I get home from work before she does, and I ask her about her day when she gets home, we go do Yoga together, we go walking together, we watch TV together, (interesting fact on the Yoga - she's always wanted a man that would go and work out with her and do Yoga. I was resistant for the first few years of our marriage but I have been working out and doing Yoga with her. She told me that my doing Yoga with her "saved our marriage", so I think she must have been thinking of leaving at some point). If doing Yoga together saved our marriage, then what is there to be gained with this weird relationship with Jim??? I think nothing but trouble, so yes, I plan to make her choose between her relationship with Jim and her marriage to me.
> 
> And if she chooses to leave me, her relationship with Jim is going to go very badly for her. They may have sex again, but a relationship built on sex only lasts so long. If she was never interested in dating him in the past, then I doubt she would be now. Plus, he's going to be an emotional wreck for a while as he's going through his divorce. She's going to realize that she made a mistake choosing to leave me, and I won't be taking her back. If she chooses another man over her husband then I could never trust her again. Not to mention if she has sex with him - every time I had sex with her I would be thinking about them being together. Emotionally, I cannot handle that.





happiness27 said:


> Jealousy isn't attractive. It pushes women away.
> 
> Drop it.
> 
> ...


BS,...........!!


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

redwingpentagon said:


> Seems like a something to talk about with both her and the therapist.
> Maybe she really is being innocent and since she feels like your her one nothing should bother you .... even a guy she slept with being friends! Bounderies are another discussion you should have if you have not already. If she respects you she will choose her husband over a "friend"
> Seems friend always equals ex hook up or more believe me it true.
> I wish you the best!


Really????? Some times RWP, you still suffer, from similar stories, but it's not the same and CT, should drop the hammer quit trying to be new new and modern sensitive man, horse crap. As a man means you have to take charge and not be that Nice Guy, it rather unbecoming to what what sensitive male has turned in to. Go nuclear CT!!!!


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Chronotrigger said:


> Let me give a little more backstory - my wife had weight loss surgery about a year ago. She's lost a lot of weight and looks beautiful, but I always thought she was beautiful, even when she was heavier. And I told her so, all the time. Since she lost the weight, she seems obsessed with her looks, looking young and beautiful and she stresses out about aging. Everyone I've talked to about her says she's going through some kind of mid-life crisis and is craving attention from anywhere she can get it. And that may be what's driving her to talk to Jim - she isn't satisfied with the attention that I give her so she's getting it elsewhere. Now I'm not telling you this as a means of justifying her recent behavior - it's just a piece of the puzzle.
> 
> That being said, there are new developments. The wife woke up late last night and decided to text Jim. I have my kids every other week and weekend. On the weekends I have kids, I usually stay home with them and the wife goes out to her hometown (about an hour and 15 minutes away) to visit her brother, sister in law and their kids. Her father and step-mother also live down there. But so does Jim. She told Jim last night that when she visits her brother and sister in law on the weekends that I'm not there that he's free to be their "third wheel anytime" and go bowling with the family. I'm betting she doesn't plan on telling me if they meet. No, I am not okay with this... more on that in a minute.
> 
> ...


Well that's being weak threat/excuse by making her pay for the divorce, , and by the way Cheating banging wives never come to their sense's and don't care what you have to offer or what you think they care to lose. And if you just like being the ATM machine and realize that the only reason she with you is what you have to offer, UNTIL her plan A comes around your only plan C


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Chronotrigger said:


> This WILL get sorted out very soon. Counseling with a cold splash of water to her face tomorrow and then seeing what she does in the next week. If the relationship continues in the week after counseling, then she will be choosing between Jim and me.


OP, I don't think you should be asking her anything. You should TELL her, in front of the counsellor, that her "friendship" with Jim is over as of now, and that if she continues to communicate with him in ANY way, that you will serve her with divorce papers.

If she communicates with him after counselling, then she's made her choice.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

TAMAT said:


> Chrono,
> 
> What is also common here and in my experience is that a woman keeps her ex'es from before her marriage and creates an elaborate story about why he is still in her life. *You should really question if Jims divorce was not caused by your W.
> 
> ...


Astute.


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

Jim is not an attractive guy, IMO. I'm way better looking than he is. So I just dont get why she would ever entertain the idea of ruining a great marriage to me by cheating with him. I was under the impression that most women thought these things through before acting out. This little indiscretion of hers is going to cost her a lot if she continues talking with him. And once I'm gone, I'm gone for good. She says she loves me. If that's true then she needs to think on what shes doing and decide if this horseplay is really worth it.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Most Cheaters, cheat down and it's their attention they are attracted too. She's in an EA and those are feel good feelings.

Quote CT,...
This little indiscretion of hers is going to cost her a lot if she continues talking with him.
End quote:

Really,


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I'm not an ass , CT but man your just too sweet and nice it kinda pathetic looking into your harshness you don't. Your that forever nice guy, isn't your marriage worth you fighting for it a different way than your WS expects? 

Oops, should l say aleged. It's pokes it is out most of the time nice guys finish last.


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

Worth fighting for? It takes two to make a marriage work. If shes not into it anymore then I'm not going to force her to stay, or try to force her. Shes an adult. She will make her own choices. My choice is to leave if a physical affair happens. It's the one thing I will not tolerate ever again. It's the ultimate betrayal.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I should have been more clear, but women respect swift deliberate action. And when you tell her to full stop it will get her attention. Your correct it does take two but when you demand it stop, and it continues then you know one way or the other. But then you'll have made a strong man's boundary. 
Do not ever disclose how or where you get you information from let her keep guessing. So this way she will see you are fighting for the marriage then you can work out the new boundaries you have in place for her and how she looks and seeks attention from other men.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Chronotrigger said:


> Jim is not an attractive guy, IMO. I'm way better looking than he is. So I just dont get why she would ever entertain the idea of ruining a great marriage to me by cheating with him. I was under the impression that most women thought these things through before acting out. This little indiscretion of hers is going to cost her a lot if she continues talking with him. And once I'm gone, I'm gone for good. She says she loves me. If that's true then she needs to think on what shes doing and decide if this horseplay is really worth it.


I think you’re a bit blind to what attracts people to each other; the fact that you’re more attractive and have a “great marriage” comes across like someone who isn’t seeing the big picture. A “great marriage” isn’t just things you can put check marks by on a list that you created yourself. A great marriage is two people with a shared narrative and shared boundaries that feel natural and not restrictive. A great marriage probably doesn’t have a lot of need for thinking how much “better” you are, as if you possess some static quality of greatness that can’t ever be put to the test. 

Not doing anything to defend “the wife” but even referring to one as “the wife” sounds a bit entitled. I have stopped myself many times from getting too deep into the “My wife needs to appreciate all I do for her” mode because it reflects as much upon me not fulfilling her real needs as anything else. It’s your job to fulfill the needs she feels, not the needs that you are best at providing. 

She’s got some very real issues with boundaries, but how carefully did you go over both of your pasts, and set boundaries that made sense for the both of you, with that past in mind?

I doubt at this point either of you are going to change much. So, knowing what each of you know now, would you marry each other today?

Just thinking that there’s not too much time invested here, no kids, so make sure you look at this in terms of what’s best for both of you. If she changes because she feels threatened, and not because she understands why it isn’t the relationship you both should desire as a married couple, you’re just kicking the can down the road.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why do you keep dodging the question asking if Jim was married when your wife was 'counseling' him? It's being asked for a reason as there are dynamics at play.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> I think you’re a bit blind to what attracts people to each other; the fact that you’re more attractive and have a “great marriage” comes across like someone who isn’t seeing the big picture. A “great marriage” isn’t just things you can put check marks by on a list that you created yourself. A great marriage is two people with a shared narrative and shared boundaries that feel natural and not restrictive. A great marriage probably doesn’t have a lot of need for thinking how much “better” you are, as if you possess some static quality of greatness that can’t ever be put to the test.
> 
> Not doing anything to defend “the wife” but even referring to one as “the wife” sounds a bit entitled. I have stopped myself many times from getting too deep into the “My wife needs to appreciate all I do for her” mode because it reflects as much upon me not fulfilling her real needs as anything else. It’s your job to fulfill the needs she feels, not the needs that you are best at providing.
> 
> ...


Nice....


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> Why do you keep dodging the question asking if Jim was married when your wife was 'counseling' him? It's being asked for a reason as there are dynamics at play.


Cronytrigger quote this in another thread....

Honestly I'd rather be 50% happy in my marriage than be 100% alone. Being alone scares the living crap out of me.
End quote. 

Maybe this is the answer to the question. In reality means I'll settle being second.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Don't relax or let your guard down because the OM is not as attractive or successful as you. 

There's plenty of books and supporting studies that attempt to explain what your wife sees in the OM.

Basically she's created a fantasy version of the OM which enables her to overlook his faults (and physical appearance) and just focus on how he makes her feel. For example, his attention makes her feel young again or sexy - and that high feeling blocks out 'who' the OM really is.

Another reason she needs to go 100% NC is that you can not compete with the OM.
Why? because you are competing with her fantasy. You can't win.

When he (her fantasy version) says "you look beautiful this evening" it triggers a special emotional high and gives her validation at a level of intensity that the boring 'husband' can't compete with. You could say the exact same compliment - and it will have 10% of the impact. 

It's not that you are lacking in any way - it's that no husband (who she sees everyday etc) can compete with a fantasy. 

The high she gets from him is addictive. It doesn't matter if he's ugly or a looser. That's why she wont' stop just because you ask nice. She needs to understand that there are serious consequences for her behavior (e.g., she can't continue to see him as your wife).

BTW: If your zero tolerance pushes her away - then you already lost her!


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

With respect to her going out of town every time your kids visit, this needs to stop. 

Why? 

1 - her family seems to tolerate her inviting other men to join the 'party' - they are not a friend to your marriage.
2 - she's using your kids' visit as an excuse to spend time with the OM (and lying about it). The consequence is that she can not be trusted to go out of town alone.
3 - and finally, avoiding your kids is disrespectful to your kids as well as to you.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> No, she didn't cheat on her first husband. She left him because he got into illegal drugs and she wanted no part of it. After her separation from her first husband, she started talking with Jim and had sex with him several times, but she says they never dated. That was... 12 years ago. She says she was never interested in him that way, as far as dating him.
> 
> She told me I have nothing to worry about as she's not even attracted to Jim any longer. But if she's not attracted to him (if she's telling the truth) then is it just the attention she craves from him?


yes this is how affairs start, WW gets hooked on the attentions that the EA with the OM
brings. to keep the addiction for attention met by the OM the WW has a PA with 
the OM.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> I feel like she's getting attention out of this. The stupid thing is I give her plenty of attention. I get home from work before she does, and I ask her about her day when she gets home, we go do Yoga together, we go walking together, we watch TV together, (interesting fact on the Yoga - she's always wanted a man that would go and work out with her and do Yoga. I was resistant for the first few years of our marriage but I have been working out and doing Yoga with her. She told me that my doing Yoga with her "saved our marriage", so I think she must have been thinking of leaving at some point). If doing Yoga together saved our marriage, then what is there to be gained with this weird relationship with Jim??? I think nothing but trouble, so yes, I plan to make her choose between her relationship with Jim and her marriage to me.
> 
> And if she chooses to leave me, her relationship with Jim is going to go very badly for her. They may have sex again, but a relationship built on sex only lasts so long. If she was never interested in dating him in the past, then I doubt she would be now. Plus, he's going to be an emotional wreck for a while as he's going through his divorce. She's going to realize that she made a mistake choosing to leave me, and I won't be taking her back. If she chooses another man over her husband then I could never trust her again. Not to mention if she has sex with him - every time I had sex with her I would be thinking about them being together. Emotionally, I cannot handle that.


contact with an ex causes the brain to remember the good addictive feelings she
had with her ex lover. as with any addiction her brains triggers the response
for her to desire sex with him to satisfy her addiction cravings.

NC is a must with all ex's


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> Jim is not an attractive guy, IMO. I'm way better looking than he is. So I just dont get why she would ever entertain the idea of ruining a great marriage to me by cheating with him. I was under the impression that most women thought these things through before acting out. This little indiscretion of hers is going to cost her a lot if she continues talking with him. And once I'm gone, I'm gone for good. She says she loves me. If that's true then she needs to think on what shes doing and decide if this horseplay is really worth it.


the phrase: they always affair down.

it is not about how they look that hooks the WW it is how the OM makes her feel.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> Worth fighting for? It takes two to make a marriage work. If shes not into it anymore then I'm not going to force her to stay, or try to force her. Shes an adult. She will make her own choices. My choice is to leave if a physical affair happens. It's the one thing I will not tolerate ever again. It's the ultimate betrayal.


but why wait for the train wreck to happen?

then stop wasting time and tell your WW that no more trips back home alone and
NC with the OM.

your WW says no then you have her served.


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## Lake life (Nov 18, 2019)

The old saying goes...- “ play with fire you get burned “ 
Here she’s the one playing with fire, but you get burned.
Spray some water on those 2 before the spark gets lit. 
Do something! 
Tell her you feel disrespected and let the OM know as well. 
Don’t be a jerk about it, just be serious. 
Good luck


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Brother,

The only counseling going on is the “horizontal”kind. Wake up! Be assertive, and blow this **** up.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Robert22205 said:


> Basically she's created a fantasy version of the OM which enables her to overlook his faults (and physical appearance) and just focus on how he makes her feel. For example, his attention makes her feel young again or sexy - and that high feeling blocks out 'who' the OM really is.
> 
> Another reason she needs to go 100% NC is that you can not compete with the OM.
> Why? because you are competing with her fantasy. You can't win.


Yup



oldtruck said:


> the phrase: they always affair down.
> 
> it is not about how they look that hooks the WW it is how the OM makes her feel.


Yup



oldtruck said:


> yes this is how affairs start, WW gets hooked on the attentions that the EA with the OM
> brings. to keep the addiction for attention met by the OM the WW has a PA with
> the OM.


Very often - yup


1 - Are either/both of them trained and qualified-by-recognised-examination counsellors? - If not - they aren't counselling each other. At minimum they are giving a sympathetic ear: at maximum - consolation.

2 - You say that her previous marriage died because of her husband's drug habit. How do you know? If only from your wife - check - she has relatives who who know maybe? And don't say she wouldn't lie to you - she already has - about inviting him to join her (and it was "her") and omitting to mention the planned regular get-togethers. Lies are both of omission and commission.

3 - If her FWB relationship with Jim was ended by him she may be harbouring a need to get him "hooked" so that she can get even/win by finally "dumping him". - Not unheard of.

4 - Don't make the mistake of assuming that someone is impervious to another because you are superior in all the (to you) important ways.

Looks - you 8 - him 4

Attention - you 7 - him 5

Sexual performance - you 8 - him 3

Happy future - you 9 - him 2

Income - you 8 - him 5

IS NOT THE WAY SHE MAY SEE IT

What she may be seeing is

Looks - you 8 - him 4 = 12

Attention - you 7 - him 5 = 12

Sexual performance - you 8 - him 3 = 11

Happy future - you 9 - him 2 = 11

Income - you 8 - him 5 = 13

In other words it is not a winning 40 against 17 - it is 

a losing 40 against 57 - and yes 17 also loses - but the expectation is always that they can have both.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Why Did She "Affair Down"?


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

I did answer this question, previously. Jim was not married when he first started counseling my wife. That was 12 years ago. He has had 2 failed marriages since then.


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## Chronotrigger (Feb 6, 2020)

An update on my situation. We saw the counselor together this past weekend. The counselor told her that the relationship with Jim was inappropriate and needed to end. After counseling I told her that she needed to make a choice - her marriage or her relationship with Jim. She said she would break off contact with him immediately. I checked her phone later and peeked at the texts and she did just what she said she would do - she told Jim that even though they both knew their talking was innocent that it made hubby (me) uncomfortable and she wouldn't jeopardize her marriage over this. She also told Jim that if he needed to talk about his divorce that he should contact a professional therapist. 

Part of me feels bad. From her perspective, she really did believe that talking to Jim was innocent and sounds like she had no intention of cheating. I know - cheating isn't something that is usually planned - it gradually ramps up and before the two realize it, they have gotten physical. And I don't want my wife thinking that I am trying to control who she is friends with. I don't want to be THAT husband. But ex-lovers are out of bounds. Or at least they should be.

So, on the surface, it's a score for the good guys! Thanks for all of the advice everyone gave. I really appreciate all the time that was spent in your replies.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Bull****!!, Your so naive,


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Chronotrigger said:


> I don't want to be THAT husband.


THAT husband is one who know what his boundaries are and what he'll accept.

Don't apologize for knowing who you are.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

CT. That seems like a positive update. Hopefully it is what it seems on the surface...

We're probably a little jaded around here because we've seen the same script you've been riding too often for it just be better all of sudden....

A word of caution, be forewarned and keep a watchful eye that deception could still be continuing. Hopefully there was not a phone call to Jim before the texts, as she might have just prepped him that he is going to receive a text that her husband is making her send and she doesn't mean it. Faux no contact happens all the time.

Best of luck and check in when / if it goes sideways again.


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

Chronotrigger said:


> An update on my situation. We saw the counselor together this past weekend. The counselor told her that the relationship with Jim was inappropriate and needed to end. After counseling I told her that she needed to make a choice - her marriage or her relationship with Jim. She said she would break off contact with him immediately. I checked her phone later and peeked at the texts and she did just what she said she would do - she told Jim that even though they both knew their talking was innocent that it made hubby (me) uncomfortable and she wouldn't jeopardize her marriage over this. She also told Jim that if he needed to talk about his divorce that he should contact a professional therapist.
> 
> Part of me feels bad. From her perspective, she really did believe that talking to Jim was innocent and sounds like she had no intention of cheating. I know - cheating isn't something that is usually planned - it gradually ramps up and before the two realize it, they have gotten physical. And I don't want my wife thinking that I am trying to control who she is friends with. I don't want to be THAT husband. But ex-lovers are out of bounds. Or at least they should be.
> 
> So, on the surface, it's a score for the good guys! Thanks for all of the advice everyone gave. I really appreciate all the time that was spent in your replies.


I do so want you to be right. That she is the naive one and not you.

Experience says you may be right - but also that you may not be.

The motto is simple "Trust - but verify".

Did Jim respond to her text? Has she blocked him on all media?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

re16 said:


> CT. That seems like a positive update. Hopefully it is what it seems on the surface...
> 
> We're probably a little jaded around here because we've seen the same script you've been riding too often for it just be better all of sudden....
> 
> ...


I agree, but the reason for my distain is why did it take a counselor or why did it need to go this far. But if not for the counselor the WW, would probably have never stopped but upped the ante. 

CT, if I told you that I have a .22 rifle that could shoot 3 miles and hit a 10' target would you believe me regardless what others would tell you. I tell you this since your a shooter in support of the 2nd amendment. Want to believe me or would you be skeptical because regardless of what I said you know it just couldn't be. We've all heard this on TAM, and maybe it could be true but highly unlikely.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Tilted 1 said:


> I agree, but the reason for my distain is why did it take a counselor or why did it need to go this far. But if not for the counselor the WW, would probably have never stopped but upped the ante.
> 
> CT, if I told you that I have a .22 rifle that could shoot 3 miles and hit a 10' target would you believe me regardless what others would tell you. I tell you this since your a shooter in support of the 2nd amendment. Want to believe me or would you be skeptical because regardless of what I said you know it just couldn't be. We've all heard this on TAM, and maybe it could be true but highly unlikely.


It is very annoying that it takes a third party to make a spouse believe something. It happened to me also. I think it is a sign of a deeper lack of respect... the same kind of lack of respect that is needed to be a cheater.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Per your last post... OP, bless your heart...

You are currently and I guess you will continue to live in a dream world. 

I am sorry that you cannot see the truth about what is, has, and in the future will continue to go on.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Chronotrigger said:


> I did answer this question, previously. Jim was not married when he first started counseling my wife. That was 12 years ago. He has had 2 failed marriages since then.


It must have been written in invisible ink.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

> she told Jim that even though they both knew their talking was innocent that it made hubby (me) uncomfortable and she wouldn't jeopardize her marriage over this


Wow...just wow...


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Chronotrigger said:


> Jim is not an attractive guy, IMO. I'm way better looking than he is. So I just dont get why she would ever entertain the idea of ruining a great marriage to me by cheating with him. I was under the impression that most women thought these things through before acting out. This little indiscretion of hers is going to cost her a lot if she continues talking with him. And once I'm gone, I'm gone for good. She says she loves me. If that's true then she needs to think on what shes doing and decide if this horseplay is really worth it.


The same reason she said yoga saved your marriage. Find out the reason for that.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Chronotrigger said:


> An update on my situation. We saw the counselor together this past weekend. The counselor told her that the relationship with Jim was inappropriate and needed to end. After counseling I told her that she needed to make a choice - her marriage or her relationship with Jim. She said she would break off contact with him immediately. I checked her phone later and peeked at the texts and she did just what she said she would do - she told Jim that even though they both knew their talking was innocent that it made hubby (me) uncomfortable and she wouldn't jeopardize her marriage over this. She also told Jim that if he needed to talk about his divorce that he should contact a professional therapist.
> 
> Part of me feels bad. From her perspective, she really did believe that talking to Jim was innocent and sounds like she had no intention of cheating. I know - cheating isn't something that is usually planned - it gradually ramps up and before the two realize it, they have gotten physical. And I don't want my wife thinking that I am trying to control who she is friends with. I don't want to be THAT husband. But ex-lovers are out of bounds. Or at least they should be.
> 
> So, on the surface, it's a score for the good guys! Thanks for all of the advice everyone gave. I really appreciate all the time that was spent in your replies.


The part that’s not so innocent is him being her weekend hubby when she’s back home with the family. She is the one that said he could do this on the weekends you’re not there. This is what’s inappropriate about their relationship. This is what I would’ve drilled home not the fact that they were talking.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

re16 said:


> It is very annoying that it takes a third party to make a spouse believe something. It happened to me also. I think it is a sign of a deeper lack of respect... the same kind of lack of respect that is needed to be a cheater.


That really shouldn't be seen as annoying. Sometimes you need to find a common place that only a hopefully-neutral 3rd party can provide. To some extent familiarity breeds contempt, even in a marriage. Both parties feel like they already know what the other is going to say, and stop listening. A good MC can get past that. Don't see it as a lack of respect, but as something learned. If your spouse has to learn from someone else that you were correct, that gives it weight and validation.


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