# What is an Emotional Affair to you?



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

I am sure this topic has been discussed in depth many times before on TAM. But I’d like to drag a dead horse back up and beat it. So let’s have a discussion.

What qualifies as an EA to you, if anything? 

I would like to discuss a couple main themes here, not to start a gender war but to touch upon the way women and men might view this topic differently; in what they are, how damaging they are, and whether you personally would tolerate a secretive and emotionally intimate relationship your spouse is having with an opposite gender person. 

Would you tolerate the friendship with the opposite sex if you did know about it? When would that be considered an EA if so? 

In an example, the man had what he admits as an EA. Met her online, talked for months in secret, met in person with the woman 8 different times and then says he cut her off when she started to flirt with him. He keeps his secrets until she drops her own bombshell and tells him she already knew about him cheating. Regardless of the suspect nature of these statements, assuming they are true for these intents and purposes, I absolutely believe (just as he admits) that he was in an EA.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

For me, an emotional affair would be any interaction with a person that would be hidden from your spouse. this includes real life, chatting, video calls, etc. I think I would also say talking about intimate things in your marriage with anyone other than your spouse or a professional (doctor/therapist) is a big no-no.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

For me an emotional affair is a make believe mythical thing, that doesn’t actually exist in reality.

To put it another way it can even be unrequited love, yet that still isn’t anything more than imagination.

Of which I worry about what people actually do in action. Since what they think is for the most part irrelevant, especially when their actions don’t actually match their thoughts.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Hmm, I’d consider an EA to be where two people are starting to develop feelings for each other, sexting and basically carrying on as though they’re in a relationship, but they simply haven’t had sex, yet. All done behind their spouses’/partner’s backs.

To me, it might hurt me worse if my husband were to fall in love with another woman, even without the sex. A physical affair would be horrible too, but people can feel strongly about another person without sex.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I think it’s any friendship where a person is confronted by a spouse about their discomfort, and the person engaging in the behaviour feels torn. If you’re feeling torn, the other relationship with the other person is a priority. 

Seen it countless times. I’ve had men try to be friends, we both pick up on it and my husband talks about his discomfort. For me, it doesn’t even get that far, because I know before he does that said person is making my husband uncomfortable so there just isn’t that moment where I have to think or say, ‘oh but he’s so friendly, oh but he’s so nice, oh but why can’t we be friends, it’s not fair’. 

An emotional affair starts at the point where you are worried about how the friend will react. You’re already seeking their approval. There might be no attraction whatsoever, not even emotional or physical. Not even an inkling or anything going further. But you’re already worried about upsetting them. It starts exactly there. 

Don’t upset your spouse, just don’t. Why jump hoops for another person to argue the point at home, ‘it’s just a friend!’ You’re eventually going to HAVE to lean on that friend and expect a relationship and roof over your head eventually. Think 20 steps ahead, 20 years even before you even care that much about your friend, co-worker, work wife, high school friend. 

Are they going to be there when you need nappies, cancer treatments, get sick, need a friend to support you at the ensuing divorce lawyer appointments? 

Even if it’s not physical, never was and there’s no attraction beyond some bond?


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

I would say it’s giving your time, attention, and affection to another while denying those same attributes to your spouse.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

IMO, the ingredients of an emotional affair are secrecy, emotional connection and sexual attraction that hasn't been acted upon...yet.

Although I'd be a mess in either scenario, I think I would be more hurt if my husband had an emotional affair than a physical one. A physical affair I would think is only about sex. But an emotional affair involves feelings...feelings he should only have for me.

I don't think I would stay married to my husband if he had an emotional or physical affair. I'd probably still love him for life though.

Ugh, I hate even thinking and typing what if my husband betrayed me like that.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)




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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Been there and almost had one.

Some years ago when my kids were young and my resentment was at its peak we had a woman in my office who used to coordinate the service engineers. She had only been at the company a short time and as the service team leader we had to converse a lot.

She was married but used to flirt with me a lot and we discussed our issues.

One day I was going to attend a security system issue at a well known lingerie shop and she said "I like there stuff, see if you can get some free samples and I will model them for you and gave me her sizes, this was said in a jokey manner but the underlying tone was obvious.

Tbh I was sorely tempted and it was probably only the fact that it was a work colleague stopped it going further, that and I had not cheated on my wife previously or since.

The eventually had an affair with one of the managers.

The first step into an EA/PA is the hardest.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

She not the


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

All good answers. I think secretiveness is the biggest sign. Discussing your marriage or your partner with the other person is also a bad sign. Or making comparisons in your head between partner and other person.
Of course the real sign is the internal "feels", but nobody can prove or disprove that. 

I once found myself moving in that direction, with a woman online (in another context) that I had never met, and _didnt know what she looked like_. So physical attraction is not a prerequisite, believe it or not. In that case the "sharing" was just getting too much, and I was drifting towards making those "comparisons". If we'd met, and it turned out she was attractive, I might have been in trouble. So we never met, and the conversation got dialed back. This was many years ago, and to this day, I have no idea what she looked like.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Kput said:


> She eventually had an affair with one of the managers.


You dodged a bullet


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

Laurentium said:


> All good answers. I think *secretiveness* is the biggest sign.


I agree. Online has made it so these things can accelerate rapidly. If you're married and want to stay that way I'd advise ppl not to start up a friendship with the opposite sex unless you're gay. It might sound primitive but ppl are animals.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Personal said:


> For me an emotional affair is a make believe mythical thing, that doesn’t actually exist in reality.
> 
> To put it another way it can even be unrequited love, yet that still isn’t anything more than imagination.
> 
> Of which I worry about what people actually do in action. Since what they think is for the most part irrelevant, especially when their actions don’t actually match their thoughts.


Your stated reason for dismissing the existence of emotional affairs does not make sense. Specifically you state that “Of which I worry about what people actually do in action. Since what they think is for the most part irrelevant”. Having an emotional affair requires that the cheater take active action, just not physically sex. For example if the relationship between a spouse and an emotional affair partner develops to the point that the cheater spends more of each day texting, emailing, and talking to their affair partner than their spouse, and that these affair partners express feeling toward each other such as saying “I love you”, then the emotional affair is based on inappropriate actual action and not on imagination.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> I am sure this topic has been discussed in depth many times before on TAM. But I’d like to drag a dead horse back up and beat it. So let’s have a discussion.
> 
> What qualifies as an EA to you, if anything?
> 
> ...


The minute, I mean the second, you either keep another relationship secret from your SO or minimize the depth of that relationship so as to NOT elicit further scrutiny from your SO, you’re cheating.

Pretty simple


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I know my wife is having a secret emotional affair with the double stuffed Oreos just by watching the way she licks the crème from the cookie. I’m worried it will turn physical soon and she will hand me my walking papers.

Should I do a hard 180 ?


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> I know my wife is having a secret emotional affair with the double stuffed Oreos just by watching the way she licks the crème from the cookie. I’m worried it will turn physical soon and she will hand me my walking papers.
> 
> Should I do a hard 180 ?


No, you ought to do a 69.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Emotions are internally formed, and driven; stronger, when they are externally validated.

What typical human does not like to be stroked by another of the opposite sex?

This makes EA's easy to fall into, and hard to extract oneself from.

Those who are lonely, those who feel abused of, find themselves, easily in an EA.

The heart is a hungry hunter, and logic is rarely its strong feature.

It is best to become single prior to forming a new relationship.

Hmm.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

To me, an EA is when you *prefer *the emotional attention and feelings created by connecting and communicating with another person over that which you get from your spouse. If you don't _prefer _it, then it's friendship, and I have no problems with friendships, even if they're close, as long as that preference boundary isn't crossed. In the OP's post, though, the clandestine nature of the "friendship" is a red flag, whether or not the boundary has been crossed (which is unclear).


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> For me an emotional affair is a make believe mythical thing, that doesn’t actually exist in reality.
> 
> To put it another way it can even be unrequited love, yet that still isn’t anything more than imagination.
> 
> Of which I worry about what people actually do in action. Since what they think is for the most part irrelevant, especially when their actions don’t actually match their thoughts.


What would you call it when a spouse is secretly talking to someone via text and other apps, complaining about how crappy a spouse you are and how much they love the person they are talking to? They are always in a ****ty mood around you and can't wait to get some free time away from you so they can talk to their online "friend". They are also starting to have some sex talk and saying things like I was thinking of you while masturbating last night. What do you call this?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> I know my wife is having a secret emotional affair with the double stuffed Oreos just by watching the way she licks the crème from the cookie. I’m worried it will turn physical soon and she will hand me my walking papers.
> 
> Should I do a hard 180 ?


How can one man compete with double stuffed???😂


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

Your partner loses interest in you. you are not her priority.

she is happy while talking, writing a message, thinking about it, she cannot hide it. etc.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

Laurentium said:


> I once found myself moving in that direction, with a woman online (in another context) *that I had never met, and didnt know what she looked like. So physical attraction is not a prerequisite, believe it or not*.


I had not thought of it that way! Very good point!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I think of it in a different way: what is FAITHFULNESS? Because many people look at "what is infidelity" as a way to find that fine line and dance right up to that line. I think faithfulness is giving 100% of your romantic affection, companionship, and loyalty to your spouse. That's what I promised: to forsake all others. So that leaves 0% of my romantic affection for any other human. That leave 0% of my companionship for any other. And that leaves 0% of my loyalty for any other person. 

Thus, by deduction, you can see that an emotional affair would be giving some portiom of my romantic affection, companionship, or loyalty to someone else...male or female. AND I believe @Laurentium and @Captain Obvious are right on the money: one of the biggest clues is excluding your spouse/secretiveness. When you're hiding what you're doing from your spouse, or excluding them from the conversation, or keeping what you're saying or what your doing a secret--then that is a clue that it's not healthy.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> I think of it in a different way: what is FAITHFULNESS? Because many people look at "what is infidelity" as a way to find that fine line and dance right up to that line. I think faithfulness is giving 100% of your romantic affection, companionship, and loyalty to your spouse. That's what I promised: to forsake all others. So that leaves 0% of my romantic affection for any other human. That leave 0% of my companionship for any other. And that leaves 0% of my loyalty for any other person.
> 
> Thus, by deduction, you can see that an emotional affair would be giving some portiom of my romantic affection, companionship, or loyalty to someone else...male or female. AND I believe @Laurentium and @Captain Obvious are right on the money: one of the biggest clues is excluding your spouse/secretiveness. When you're hiding what you're doing from your spouse, or excluding them from the conversation, or keeping what you're saying or what your doing a secret--then that is a clue that it's not healthy.


Yes, when that desire for intimacy (any) blows up boundaries and leaves the relationship you might as well call it what it is.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> How can one man compete with double stuffed???😂


It's cute that he thinks it's not already physical


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Many people believe that the EA is only an EA after the “I love you” is said. I disagree, I believe secrets and diversion of intimacy (whether that be intimate conversation, emotion, or support) is betrayal.

Further, if you know your spouse is absolutely against the interaction you’re having with an opposite sex person to the point you’re hiding it, it’s deception and betrayal.

@Divinely Favored and @ABHale I would love to hear from you both.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> Hmm, I’d consider an EA to be where two people are starting to develop feelings for each other, sexting and basically carrying on as though they’re in a relationship, but they simply haven’t had sex, yet. All done behind their spouses’/partner’s backs.
> 
> To me, it might hurt me worse if my husband were to fall in love with another woman, even without the sex. A physical affair would be horrible too, but people can feel strongly about another person without sex.


Where is the line on this out of curiosity? What if he hasn’t crossed the “In love” line but he is still sharing private and emotional things with a woman? What if they are “platonically” planning to meet up?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I tend to think that if you're hiding the interactions or your spouse is not ok with it then it's probably questionable.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

QuietRiot said:


> Where is the line on this out of curiosity? What if he hasn’t crossed the “In love” line but he is still sharing private and emotional things with a woman? What if they are “platonically” planning to meet up?


If I never knew about this “friendship,” if he felt that he had to keep it a secret, and lie to meet up etc, that would be an emotional affair. I’d say most physical affairs start off emotionally, unless it’s a ONS, so if my husband were secretly chatting with another woman, meeting secretly for drinks etc…that would be an emotional affair. “Emotional” doesn’t necessarily mean being in love but just sharing time and energy that should be with your spouse.

It’s the secretive nature of affairs, emotional or physical that makes them a form of betrayal, imo.


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## Brigit24 (2 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I’d say most physical affairs start off emotionally, unless it’s a ONS.


Right. People know instinctively if there is going to be a problem. If the text message or the glance from the "other" makes you a bit excited then that's your cue to keep away. If you ignore the first signs you're looking for trouble.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

*Deidre* said:


> If I never knew about this “friendship,” if he felt that he had to keep it a secret, and lie to meet up etc, that would be an emotional affair. I’d say most physical affairs start off emotionally, unless it’s a ONS, so if my husband were secretly chatting with another woman, meeting secretly for drinks etc…that would be an emotional affair. “Emotional” doesn’t necessarily mean being in love but just sharing time and energy that should be with your spouse.
> 
> It’s the secretive nature of affairs, emotional or physical that makes them a form of betrayal, imo.


I 100% agree. I’m wondering if this is more a “female” stance than male.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

QuietRiot said:


> I 100% agree. I’m wondering if this is more a “female” stance than male.


Maybe, but I think my husband would be angry if I had a secretive “friendship” with a guy that I was sharing deep personal things with - if I were making a deep personal connection, even if I didn’t have sex with the guy. 

I’ve read a few posts on here by men who don’t believe men and women can be “just friends.” When a guy posts a thread asking for advice because his wife is “friends” with a guy on FB for example, most of the men on here reply with a uniform “he’s not a friend, she’s cheating.” 🤷‍♀️


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Maybe, but I think my husband would be angry if I had a secretive “friendship” with a guy that I was sharing deep personal things with - if I were making a deep personal connection.
> 
> I’ve read a few posts on here by men who don’t believe men and women can be “just friends.” When a guy posts a thread asking for advice because his wife is “friends” with a guy on FB for example, most of the men on here reply with a uniform “he’s not a friend, she’s cheating.” 🤷‍♀️


My wife has men that are friends, from work and acquaintances on Facebook. I have female friends, from work mainly, I do not use social media. 

Our policy is that we do not interface with these friends secretly or alone. We have a complete open device/account policy and we can see where each other is at all times with our Guardian app. This is not for me to control her, or her to control me. 

We are a married team, we operate in life as one entity. For safety reasons, we can see where each other is. I ride a motorcycle at least 50% of the time, and instead of trying to call me, she can pull up the app and see exactly where I am. 

My perspective is that men & women can be friends. However each friend has to understand and take precautions to keep it platonic and to be a "friend of the marriage(s)". The only secrets I keep from my wife are things I cannot legally disclose, due to classification or non-disclosure. All my female friends are also a friend of my wife. Any friend of mine (male or female), who dislikes my wife, is not kept as a friend by me. Again, my wife and I are a team, we are US.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TRy said:


> Your stated reason for dismissing the existence of emotional affairs does not make sense. Specifically you state that “Of which I worry about what people actually do in action. Since what they think is for the most part irrelevant”. Having an emotional affair requires that the cheater take active action, just not physically sex. For example if the relationship between a spouse and an emotional affair partner develops to the point that the cheater spends more of each day texting, emailing, and talking to their affair partner than their spouse, and that these affair partners express feeling toward each other such as saying “I love you”, then the emotional affair is based on inappropriate actual action and not on imagination.


Your actions as described in your example, simply describes some friendships. Of which I don't think it's a bad thing for married people to have friends, including having some friends that they love.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What would you call it when a spouse is secretly talking to someone via text and other apps, complaining about how crappy a spouse you are and how much they love the person they are talking to?


I would call that a possible fishing expedition.



> They are always in a ****ty mood around you and can't wait to get some free time away from you so they can talk to their online "friend".


I would say they don't like who they are with. So given that, it would hardly be a surprise that they would rather be elsewhere.



> They are also starting to have some sex talk and saying things like I was thinking of you while masturbating last night. What do you call this?


I would call that flirting. Yet it still doesn't change the fact that talking about it, isn't actually doing it. So whatever. 🤷‍♂️


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BootsAndJeans said:


> My wife has men that are friends, from work and acquaintances on Facebook. I have female friends, from work mainly, I do not use social media.
> 
> Our policy is that we do not interface with these friends secretly or alone. We have a complete open device/account policy and we can see where each other is at all times with our Guardian app. This is not for me to control her, or her to control me.
> 
> ...


That’s cool - whatever works for you both is what matters. 😊 My husband and I were friends before we dated; we met through mutual friends. And we still have these mutual friends in common and text them individually sometimes, etc…of course, no secrets.

That said, I don’t think I need to know every move my husband is making and vice versa.


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## ChasT (2 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Your actions as described in your example, simply describes some friendships. Of which I don't think it's a bad thing for married people to have friends, including having some friends that they love.





Personal said:


> I would call that a possible fishing expedition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is a question for you: Do you believe people can fall in love with someone through correspondence? Can an emotional bond be created that might include sexual attraction and desire?


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

When married and seeing a marriage counselor he told my husband and I that an emotional affair is any action to encourage the interest of the other person....basically intent of actions.

I would not, and did not, tolerate my ex's interests and pursuits of other women.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I had never heard of an emotional affair before TAM. I think you're either having an affair or you're not. I think if you're sitting around playing footsies with someone somewhere flirting and getting yourself all worked up and you're married, you are asking for trouble. The other person might just decide they don't like being toyed with by a married person and bust you or tell the whole office or whatever. 

As a perpetually single person, I can even confess that I have been known to overtly flirt when I thought it was harmless and then had it backfire on me in a roundabout way. I think flirting is fun. But you shouldn't do it if you don't plan on following through or it's inappropriate to follow through. Someone might take it more seriously than you do (and than I did). Some people just enjoy flirting. If you're married, that's a bad thing.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

ChasT said:


> Here is a question for you: Do you believe people can fall in love with someone through correspondence? Can an emotional bond be created that might include sexual attraction and desire?


Yup.....attraction in humans is at least 50% mental.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

QuietRiot said:


> I am sure this topic has been discussed in depth many times before on TAM. But I’d like to drag a dead horse back up and beat it. So let’s have a discussion.
> 
> What qualifies as an EA to you, if anything?
> 
> ...


What would qualify would be indulging romantic feelings towards someone else either than my spouse.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

ChasT said:


> Here is a question for you: Do you believe people can fall in love with someone through correspondence? Can an emotional bond be created that might include sexual attraction and desire?


If you have never met someone in person, or have never shared sex with them and only have a relationship through writing, then any idea of sexual attraction towards them remains illusory.

That answered, here is a question for you.

Do you think that make believe sexual relationships, qualify as real sexual relationships?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> how much they love the person they are talking to?


Just on that point in isolation, I have a few female friends that I went to school with, who I have known for 35+ years. And we sometimes say "I love you" to each other. They also say the same thing to my wife as well. Plus heaven forbid, I have been out with some of them alone, or with other friends as well without my wife. While we also sometimes, talk to each other for hours at a time as well, 'cause we're friends and we matter to each other.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Personal said:


> Your actions as described in your example, simply describes some friendships. Of which I don't think it's a bad thing for married people to have friends, including having some friends that they love.


Wow. So if the relationship between your spouse and another man develops to the point that your spouse spends more of each day texting, emailing, and talking to this other man than to you, and that your wife and this other man express feeling toward each other such as saying “I love you”, your OK with that. What can I say other than we should agree to disagree.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TRy said:


> So if the relationship between your spouse and another man develops to the point that your spouse spends more of each day texting, emailing, and talking to this other man than to you


I'm not sure how much spare time, you think some people have?

That said, I can't imagine why my wife, would she want to waste time with the nonsense you describe. If she wants to share sex with someone, she'll have sex with them instead of texting them interminably to no end. She hates small talk and time wasters, who don't or can't get to the point. And we have never sexted each other ever (she finds that crap boring as do I), yet we **** each other better than rabbits.

Anyway my wife has a full-time career in government management roles (in her chosen profession). On top of that she is usually undertaking some level of further tertiary education ('cause her work pays for it). Plus when she's at work, she's often writing grant applications, is responsible for some infrastructure, and is managing a couple of large projects at the moment as well, and has lots of staff at different sites delivering services to a range of people.

Om top of that, she takes turns doing the dishes, gardening, doing the laundry, cleaning, cooking and grocery shopping. While she also helps look after one of our adult children, who has considerable support needs, due to a terrible illness which has been robbing her of a life for 4 and a bit years so far.

When she isn't doing that, she spends plenty of time with me, and catches up with some of her friends and family when she can as well. While we also manage to share sex at usually 6-9x a week, and on plenty of occasions even more often than that (though I sometimes find the occasional 5:00AM play a bit wearing) . Plus she also finds time to pose for me on occasion, for some of my nude and erotic art projects as well.

That said at least her commute to work is only an eight to twelve minute drive, and she only works 8:30AM to 5:00PM to 5:30PM Mon-Fri and gets fortnightly RDOs, and she has a lot of annual leave and long service leave accrued as well. So we sometimes use that to enjoy ourselves together in some way when we have an opportunity. And now the weather is getting warmer here, we have started going for short walks together in the evening as well.

Otherwise she is often reading an enormous number of books in bed, and sometimes finds time to do some sewing, knitting, cross stitch (usually when she's taking up the care slack for me). Plus she also collects and sometimes sells or trades historic fashion ephemera, and chats and posts about such things with other like minded collectors. And she speaks to her mum a couple of times a week as well, on top of keeping in touch with some of her family, most of whom are overseas (mostly using an app), since she is Italian.

Yet this idea that my spouse would have the time to be able to spend more of each day texting, emailing, and talking to another man, versus talking to me is absurd. That said if she does find the time to do such a thing, then good for her in being able to manage her time in such an extraordinary way.

As for today, she is currently hanging out with our young adult kids, watching a show on the tele. While I am typing out a response to you, (because TAM can be fun) in my home office. While earlier today, she caught up with one of her friends to decompress, while I was at home, mostly doing some garden work, and watching youTube videos, and doing one of my hobbies. While in the morning we had some great sex and are soon to do it again, since she's been flirting a bit and flashing me her pink bits beneath her dress, on occasion variously through this evening.

So no I'm not worried, and am especially not worried about her having friends, especially the kind that email, text or talk too much.

Cheers.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

QuietRiot said:


> Many people believe that the EA is only an EA after the “I love you” is said. I disagree, I believe secrets and diversion of intimacy (whether that be intimate conversation, emotion, or support) is betrayal.
> 
> Further, if you know your spouse is absolutely against the interaction you’re having with an opposite sex person to the point you’re hiding it, it’s deception and betrayal.
> 
> @Divinely Favored and @ABHale I would love to hear from you both.


I think if my wife were carrying on secretive contact with another they had emotionally romantic or sexual feelings toward, having seen them or not. 

Contact including flirting, discussing sexual things such as sexual wants or sexual issues between spouses(no talk of ED, sex starved marriage, etc. with opposite sex as I think that is a fishing expedition wanting a response for other sex "friend".
No divulging intimate info that should only be between spouse and self. No way in hell would I talk to an individual one on one, some of the topics I may reply to on an anonymous message board such as this. 

The guy in question, I would want to know why he is thinking it is EA. If there is no romantic or sexual feelings toward this woman and he cut her off when it became clear there were from her side it is difficult to understand why he feels that. 

With his wife's dad passing just before his own, he may have felt his wife in her grief could not help him process his own, or maybe he tried and it caused her to become emotionally worse or she was already screwing the old friend and did not want to with hubby, hence reaching out to a grief group on line. I could see him talking to woman who had lost a parent as a way to maybe help him understand what his wife was thinking or going through processing her dad's passing.

What he has done would be same as a spouse not telling their alcoholic spouse they are attending Al-Anon and having a friend they call or meet to help them cope. 

He kept meetings in public places, not exactly someone who is carrying on something salacious with another, and fact he cut it off when he discovered she had ulterior motives.

The topic of dealing with death of parent is not a topic that would be reserved for only spouses either. So again, what in his mind has him calling this an EA? I can see maybe him not telling his wife due to if she knew another woman was helping him with his grief about his dad and she was not able to, that that may make her feel worse about herself as a failure of her hubby by not being able to be there for him.

I would say they need marriage therapy with counselor that can deal with grief, except for her screwing another guy, I would not allow myself to get past that. Marriage would be done due to her adultry.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Maybe, but I think my husband would be angry if I had a secretive “friendship” with a guy that I was sharing deep personal things with - if I were making a deep personal connection, even if I didn’t have sex with the guy.
> 
> I’ve read a few posts on here by men who don’t believe men and women can be “just friends.” When a guy posts a thread asking for advice because his wife is “friends” with a guy on FB for example, most of the men on here reply with a uniform “he’s not a friend, she’s cheating.” 🤷‍♀️


That's because men know what his real intentions are. Write this down: NO MAN, simp or not, orbiter or boyfriend, will give you his undivided attention for free.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

BootsAndJeans said:


> [...]Our policy is that we do not interface with these friends secretly or alone. We have a complete open device/account policy and we can see where each other is at all times with our Guardian app. This is not for me to control her, or her to control me.[...]












You DO understand that there WILL come a day when either one of you two WILL keep conversations/dates secret right? If there's one thing I'm sure of about the human condition is that when you tell someone not to do something, with time, he/she will succumb to the urge and do the something.


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## ChasT (2 mo ago)

Personal said:


> If you have never met someone in person, or have never shared sex with them and only have a relationship through writing, then any idea of sexual attraction towards them remains illusory.
> 
> That answered, here is a question for you.
> 
> Do you think that make believe sexual relationships, qualify as real sexual relationships?


Interesting that you put those parameters on your response, though I disagree with your conclusion even under those conditions.

In answer to your question, I do believe that people can have a relationship that includes mutually intense sexual attraction without ever having sex and that such relationships can constitute a form of betrayal from one's spouse. I believe that sexual attraction along with the sharing of deeply personal thoughts, confiding of intimate aspects of one's relationship with their spouse, combined with secrecy can create a real unfaithfulness to one's marriage, even if there is no actual sexual intercourse. I don't believe that a married person can engage in such behaviors without taking something away from their marital relationship.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

ChasT said:


> I do believe that people can have a relationship that includes mutually intense sexual attraction without ever having sex and that such relationships can constitute a form of betrayal from one's spouse.


Of course it is! Who do you think she/he's thinking of when making love to you?


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> You DO understand that there WILL come a day when either one of you two WILL keep conversations/dates secret right? If there's one thing I'm sure of about the human condition is that when you tell someone not to do something, with time, he/she will succumb to the urge and do the something.


Well, it's been 40 years now, so I am not really concerned. It is not a "tell someone not to do" thing, it is how we operate. The key thing about people cheating, shoplifting, drunk driving, doing drugs or anything else comes down to character. 

Ultimately, we operate with trust. We dealt with serious relationship issues when younger and learned the skills to protect our marriage and our relationship.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Well, it's been 40 years now, so I am not really concerned. It is not a "tell someone not to do" thing, it is how we operate. The key thing about people cheating, shoplifting, drunk driving, doing drugs or anything else comes down to character.
> 
> Ultimately, we operate with trust. We dealt with serious relationship issues when younger and learned the skills to protect our marriage and our relationship.


The road of adultery is paved with the blind trust of individuals that chose to follow the same route you did.

I choose to tell people to trust BUT verify.

My XW and I had the same mutual trust you’re talking about, same access to phones, computer and everything else and… look at my case, she serial cheated on me anyway.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> The road of adultery is paved with the blind trust of individuals that chose to follow the same route you did.
> 
> I choose to tell people to trust BUT verify.
> 
> My XW and I had the same mutual trust you’re talking about, same access to phones, computer and everything else and… look at my case, she serial cheated on me anyway.


I have read your story, and I am deeply sorry. All individuals and marriages are different. I am not and will not play "marital police". Our incidence of co-worker infatuation, happened 8 months after we were married, 37 something years ago. It never got beyond flirting/infatuation (as far as I know), but I took action and ended it. She was only 18 at the time and was pursued by a 30 something "successful" man where she worked.

I moved us back home, and we had a huge blowout over it. I made it very clear that there would be no next time. This event, based on what one of the older women at her work that warned me, had not gotten past the pursuit/infatuation stage. This POS was known to be a scumbag, womanizer. We were young, away from home the first time, and we were both incredibly naive.

Since then, we have developed our skills and have grown up, obviously. Again, I am shocked at what happened to you. If....and it is a huge if, my wife did what your old lady did, I would burn her life to the ground. I guess that is just my military mindset. My wife knows that I am NOT a man to mess with. She has seen me go nuclear and cut relatives out my life, like a tumor.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> Just on that point in isolation, I have a few female friends that I went to school with, who I have known for 35+ years. And we sometimes say "I love you" to each other. They also say the same thing to my wife as well. Plus heaven forbid, I have been out with some of them alone, or with other friends as well without my wife. While we also sometimes, talk to each other for hours at a time as well, 'cause we're friends and we matter to each other.


I have friends, including women, that I would say I love them, but in a platonic way. That is a completely different situation. I'm talking about someone professing romantic love for someone.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> I'm not sure how much spare time, you think some people have?
> 
> That said, I can't imagine why my wife, would she want to waste time with the nonsense you describe. If she wants to share sex with someone, she'll have sex with them instead of texting them interminably to no end. She hates small talk and time wasters, who don't or can't get to the point. And we have never sexted each other ever (she finds that crap boring as do I), yet we **** each other better than rabbits.
> 
> ...


I think all you did is describe why your spouse doesn't have time to cheat. Which is what nearly every betrayed spouse says before they find out about an affair


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I have friends, including women, that I would say I love them, but in a platonic way. That is a completely different situation. I'm talking about someone professing romantic love for someone.


Yup. I think some people just hear what they want to hear, instead of what is actually said. 

I love my sister-in-law, but not in a romantic or sexual way. She's my wife's big sister and became my big sister, by proxy. This was a good thing, especially when we were first married and young.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think all you did is describe why your spouse doesn't have time to cheat. Which is what nearly every betrayed spouse says before they find out about an affair


So how much do you want to bet in real money, that I am about to find out my wife is having an affair?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> So how much do you want to bet in real money, that I am about to find out my wife is having an affair?


$0, but her busy schedule isn't the reason I don't think she is about to have an affair. Likewise, I don't believe her busy schedule in and of itself is what is stopping her from having an affair.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

It comes down to character or lack of one


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> I think if my wife were carrying on secretive contact with another they had emotionally romantic or sexual feelings toward, having seen them or not.
> 
> Contact including flirting, discussing sexual things such as sexual wants or sexual issues between spouses(no talk of ED, sex starved marriage, etc. with opposite sex as I think that is a fishing expedition wanting a response for other sex "friend".
> No divulging intimate info that should only be between spouse and self. No way in hell would I talk to an individual one on one, some of the topics I may reply to on an anonymous message board such as this.
> ...


Thanks for joining. 🙂

Let me just tell you my thoughts. If my husband (assuming I still had one) had a father die and went to an online forum, started seeking comfort from a woman on there personally…They began communication and sharing their grief and he kept it a secret from me I would be absolutely livid. I would wonder why is he keeping it a secret and why he is seeking comfort from strangers and especially women. Now, if I found out he was then meeting her in person at least 8 times and hiding that and lying about it, I would absolutely assume they were having sex, and even if they weren’t, the thought of him weeping in some other woman’s arms . I would end the marriage over it. Of course… I have the benefit (or curse) of hindsight and affair experience so it’s fair to say I’m biased. This is an EA to me and I would assume a PA because of the meetings.

If one is going to AA and keeping it a secret from their spouse then they aren’t really being successful in their program being that they need the buy in from their family and close friends for support. But, getting the help of a professional is completely different none the less, than turning to any opposite sex stranger that has taken no covenant or oath to help you, could lose thier job and license and livelihood if they develop feelings and kept wanting to see you. I can’t even make that equivocation to an EA. 

Im leaving her inappropriate actions out of this because what she did is a completely different issue and I agree with your sentiments there.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BoSlander said:


> Who do you think she/he's thinking of when making love to you?


I don't know and I don't care, 'cause we can't read people's minds, so it doesn't matter.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

QuietRiot said:


> Thanks for joining. 🙂
> 
> Let me just tell you my thoughts. If my husband (assuming I still had one) had a father die and went to an online forum, started seeking comfort from a woman on there personally…They began communication and sharing their grief and he kept it a secret from me I would be absolutely livid. I would wonder why is he keeping it a secret and why he is seeking comfort from strangers and especially women. Now, if I found out he was then meeting her in person at least 8 times and hiding that and lying about it, I would absolutely assume they were having sex, and even if they weren’t, the thought of him weeping in some other woman’s arms . I would end the marriage over it. Of course… I have the benefit (or curse) of hindsight and affair experience so it’s fair to say I’m biased. This is an EA to me and I would assume a PA because of the meetings.
> 
> ...


Like I said, only reason I could see him go to online support group in 1st place, is she was not capable of being his support due to her own loss during this time. He should have found a man, I would have. 

As one who has a wife that is self critical, I could see the secretiveness due to he not being support and would take it as another failure buy her, to not be support to him. He may have been protecting her from herself, so to speak. 

If he wanted a woman's point of view to help him help his wife through her grief, he should have sought licensed professional just to stop any thought of impropriety on his part. But someone in grief does not make wisest choices. 

But seeking help from someone you had no romantic feelings for what so ever and you terminate the contact when you realize the person is developing feelings for you, is not even in same ballpark as going out and screwing old friends to feel better. What he did is no different than women who confide in male friends after a family member dies. Should they have in a possible vulnerable state, no, but does it rise to the level of an affair...not to me. I would be seriously pissed if wife did that, but after verification there were no romantic feelings or physical actions, I would run her through the ringer, but I would not go out screwing other honeys.

He made stupid choice, she is for the streets.
This is like the story I heard where guys weed dealer he texted with he had in females name and discussed ordering things from menu(different weed).
His ex-wife who was studying abroad or working abroad thought he was going on dates with another girl. She never confronted him. So she starts hooking up. Later discovers her error and thinks it is justified because "she thought". Now she is knocked up with another man's child and hubby is divorcing her cheating ass. Rightly so. She wants hubby to raise affair child, because she thought he was cheating and turned to other men to feel better about herself and because she was angry. Steadily trying to justify.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Easy Question.

An emotional affair is happening if/when you are excited to talk to the other person and hide your conversations from your spouse.

This can be chat, text. calls, meetings, emails, whatever.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Personal said:


> I can't imagine why my wife, would she want to waste time with the nonsense you describe. If she wants to share sex with someone, she'll have sex with them instead of texting them interminably to no end. She hates small talk and time wasters, who don't or can't get to the point. And we have never sexted each other ever (she finds that crap boring as do I), yet we **** each other better than rabbits.


The debate is not if your wife would or would not have an emotional affair “EA”. The debate is that you claim that there is no such as an EA, and that you would not care if she did things with another man associated an EA.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TRy said:


> The debate is that you claim that there is no such as an EA, and that you would not care if she did things with another man associated an EA.


Well excluding magical thinking, there really isn't, such a thing.

On the other hand, you could just try calling things, what they actually are. You know like "being friends with someone", or "being attracted to someone". Instead of erroneously conflating that stuff, into being the same egregious behaviour, as actually undertaking real marital sexual infidelity.

At the end of the day, I don't understand, why some people are so weak, that they feel the need to make nothings into somethings? But hey I guess some people, just love being victims.

As for myself, I've had bigger scratches on the end of my nose.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> Well excluding magical thinking, there really isn't, such a thing.
> 
> On the other hand, you could just try calling things, what they actually are. You know like "being friends with someone", or "being attracted to someone". Instead of erroneously conflating that stuff, into being the same egregious behaviour, as actually undertaking real marital sexual infidelity.
> 
> ...


Those nothings are something. They are a romantic and emotional connection to another person, that quite often leads to a physical affair. We aren't talking about friendships. There are very real world impacts from some of these emotional affairs. Let's just call them a friend as you suggest. Would you be okay with your wife cutting short conversations with you so she could spend more time chatting with her friend? Would it be okay for her to be in a bad mood because while on vacation with you because she isn't able to talk to her friend? Would it be okay for her to complain about you to her friend and tell him she knows he loves her too much to treat her the way you do? Would you be okay with her masturbating to a dikpic from her friend? Are you really saying that anything short of hands on another person is okay with you?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Emotional affair

I believe it is when a person starts relying on another person for the emotional support, love and affection that belongs solely to the spouse.

We all have friends the we love and care about. This pales in comparison to the emotions I am talking about.

The emotions I am talking are the ones that leave an empty hole in your chest that makes you feel you are dying when taken away. The emotions that make you mourn the loss of as if you loss the love of your life.

Edit: I should have included a spouse being attached emotionally towards someone else while being distant to their spouse.

That is what I believe emotional cheating is.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

It really doesn't matter if there is any consensus on what an emotional affair is (hint: there will be no consensus).
The only person that needs to agree with your guidelines of what makes up an emotional affair is your spouse ... period.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Those nothings are something. They are a romantic and emotional connection to another person, that quite often leads to a physical affair.


When it comes to who adults choose to share sex with. They ought to feel free to share sex with whoever they like as long as it's adult and consensual between the people who are sharing sex together.

If some relationships lead to adultery combined with deceit, that is up to them. People are free to share sex with whoever they want to, as long as they are adult and consenting.

If my wife wants to have an actual affair, she will choose to do exactly that and then get on with it. Such things don't happen by accident, they require people to make choices to do exactly that, and then follow those choices with actual actions (you know like actually ****ing, not just talking about it).

Now if I learn that my wife has had an actual affair or is participating in an actual affair, I will end our marital relationship for her deceit and betrayal, just like I did when I found out my ex-wife had shared sex with another man.

Yet make no mistake, my wife is free to choose whoever she wants to share sex with, and to do so as long as it's adult and the other party/parties are also consenting. Just as my ex-wife was and is also free to choose for herself who she wants to share sex with, and to do so as long as it's adult and the other party/parties are also consenting.

What isn't okay is lying about sharing sex with others when in an ongoing sexual relationship with someone, since it removes ones ability to make informed decisions, regarding their exposure to the risk of STD/STI's.



> We aren't talking about friendships. There are very real world impacts from some of these emotional affairs. Let's just call them a friend as you suggest.


I know, since some of you are clearly conflating friendships with affairs.



> Would you be okay with your wife cutting short conversations with you so she could spend more time chatting with her friend?


In some instances I would not be okay with that. Yet the only reason why I would not be okay with it, is because in some instances cutting someone off mid-conversation is rude behaviour.

That said outside of the above mentioned cutting off behaviour, I have no problem with my wife wanting to speak to any of her friends more than me. Since my wife is an autonomous individual who is not my property, so she is consequently free to do as she pleases.



> Would it be okay for her to be in a bad mood because while on vacation with you because she isn't able to talk to her friend?


It is always okay for my wife to be in a bad mood for whatever reason, inclusive of not being able to talk to any of her friends.

I am not the thought police, my wife is free to think and feel for herself, and on top of that my wife is not responsible for my happiness either. Since I am also an autonomous individual who is responsible for myself and my own thoughts and feelings.



> Would it be okay for her to complain about you to her friend and tell him she knows he loves her too much to treat her the way you do?


Yes, if that is what she wants. I am not the thought police, my wife is free to think and feel whatever she wants.



> Would you be okay with her masturbating to a dikpic from her friend?


If she likes.

My wife is free to masturbate, how she likes, as she likes, when she likes, and while viewing whatever she likes. It is not my place to control my wife's sexuality, since her sexuality belongs entirely to herself, since again she is not my property.



> Are you really saying that anything short of hands on another person is okay with you?


Yep.

If it isn't consummated, then it isn't a marriage.

If you're not sharing sex, then it isn't an affair.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> It really doesn't matter if there is any consensus on what an emotional affair is (hint: there will be no consensus).
> The only person that needs to agree with your guidelines of what makes up an emotional is your spouse ... period.


Absolutely!

Of which unless one has such conversations with their spouse, covering such things and does so every now and then over the years (since people change). They would be a fool to presume that their spouse, always shares the same point of view on such things.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> When it comes to who adults choose to share sex with. They ought to feel free to share sex with whoever they like as long as it's adult and consensual between the people who are sharing sex together.
> 
> If some relationships lead to adultery combined with deceit, that again that is okay. People are free to share sex with whoever they want to, as long as they are adult and consenting.
> 
> ...


The way you lay this out leads me to believe you would accept any behavior from your wife so long as it didn't involve lying and sex with another person.

How about this, what if her "friend" got her to become a Bee Gees super fan? 




Personal said:


> Yep.
> 
> If it isn't consummated, then it isn't a marriage.
> 
> If you're not sharing sex, then it isn't an affair.


I don't agree with you on this one, but I respect your opinion.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How about this, what if her "friend" got her to become a Bee Gees super fan?


You'd be Staying Alive


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> The way you lay this out leads me to believe you would accept any behavior from your wife so long as it didn't involve lying and sex with another person.


Not even close. I have a considerable amount of boundaries, and would readily end my marriage over any of them, if ever my wife feels compelled to cross such lines.

Yet that doesn't change the fact that my wife makes her own choices and (as she ought to) does as she pleases. In the same way I make my own choices and do as I please.

It's the old, you can't really control others, if they don't want to conform to your will.



BigDaddyNY said:


> How about this, what if her "friend" got her to become a Bee Gees super fan?


Divorce would be an appropriate response. Not because of her "friend", but simply because she would have clearly lost any sense of good taste, which would make her a poor marital partner for myself.



BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't agree with you on this one, but I respect your opinion.


🍻


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

ABHale said:


> Emotional affair
> 
> I believe it is when a person starts relying on another person for the emotional support, love and affection that belongs solely to the spouse.
> 
> ...


I think the problem with this is that everyone in an EA will deny their feelings and try to say they have control over the situation and where it goes. They take inches upon inches until it blossoms into something more. If it’s based on the internalized notion of how the person in the friendship feels, that leaves the spouse in the dark about where they might be crossing lines until it’s too late. In your example, when they begin taking time from their own spouse. How could we possibly know if our spouse is having an EA if they are based on internal feelings we can’t see? I prefer to see that the situation is inappropriate just by existing. Spending time with an opposite sex person doing fun things, chatting, and catching up and supporting one another is a date to me.

I think every person in an EA has said “We’re just friends”. There’s no way to qualify where the boundary is and when it gets crossed because they are always toeing the line anyways.

I think close and personal friendships with opposite sex people aren’t a good idea outside of a couples friends situation with partners in attendance. It would be my personal preference if no close 1:1 relationships with opposite sex people were conducted at all. But I do admit my perspective is biased. 

I wonder how many people are truly ok with their spouse having these kinds of friendships. I just can’t imagine sending my husband off with a kiss to meet a female friend for lunches, dinners or drinks, or even a coffee shop visit. I think sexual attraction builds from innocuous seeming intentions.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Personal said:


> Well excluding magical thinking, there really isn't, such a thing.
> 
> On the other hand, you could just try calling things, what they actually are. You know like "being friends with someone", or "being attracted to someone". Instead of erroneously conflating that stuff, into being the same egregious behaviour, as actually undertaking real marital sexual infidelity.
> 
> ...


It’s pretty unfair to call anyone weak for not being ok with their spouse falling in love with or doing disrespectful and hurtful things with people outside their marriage. You’re minimizing what is damaging in other peoples marriages because you personally don’t believe EA’s exist. That doesn’t seem very reasonable.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> I think the problem with this is that everyone in an EA will deny their feelings and try to say they have control over the situation and where it goes. They take inches upon inches until it blossoms into something more.



QR, you lady, hit it right on the head. This is why it is important to have boundaries and awareness.

I have been called mysogonistic and old fashioned for my stance that I will not engage alone (in person, online or otherwise) with an unrelated female friend, co-worker or member of a social circle.

I have female friends, who are also friends of my wife and our marriage. Even with them, there is no one on one interactions.

One of my primary tennants is to PROTECT MY MARRIAGE. My wife is the most important person in my life.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I will tell this. My wife and I started dating in high school. About a year later her dad past away. I did everything I could for her, made myself available whenever possible. Left no doubt that I cared about her and what she was going through.

I have also seen and read about where this isn’t the case with SO’s.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

The whole idea of an “emotional affair” seemed strange to me. The first time I’d ever heard of that was when Sal from the Howard St—- show said that his wife has an EA.

It sounds like an EA is when you share intimate thoughts, that you should share with your spouse, with somebody else. But sexual attraction must be there. So, if you are straight and you share everything with your same sex friend, that’s totally cool. But if you have the exact same conversations with somebody of the opposite sex, that’s possibly an emotional affair and cheating.

This furthers my general belief that men and women shouldn’t be friends. There might be exceptions, but it’s a constant danger.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I am sure this topic has been discussed in depth many times before on TAM. But I’d like to drag a dead horse back up and beat it. So let’s have a discussion.
> 
> What qualifies as an EA to you, if anything?
> 
> ...


Friendship with no sex.


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