# The work of reconciliation...[TW: mental health, suicide]



## ABiolarWife

If you want all the details please look at my profile. Long story short...

5 years ago I had a 6 month long affair with a coworker during my first ever manic episode. I was undiagnosed at the time (I am bipolar one) and my husband, rightfully, divorced me. I got into treatment for my disorder. Medication and therapy. Which I stick with and actively participate in as to better manage my day to day life. He reached out 18 months ago and we have been active reconciling since then. We have even remarried.

Reconciliation after an affair is a daunting prospect. Add in bipolar disorder and things get...complicated rather quickly. My husband went about things in a very smart way however. Before he confronted me, he got in touch with the other BS and shared the investigator's report. Pictures, videos, audio recordings - everything. My AP was also married and he and his wife had just delivered their first child...during the affair. Yes - I affaired WAY down.

But that cut me off from my AP right away. And I began to come out of the 'fog' just a bit. I was still riding a major manic episode however. The thing that finally 'snapped' me out of it was when I was served the divorce papers. That broke me.


Spoiler



I left my office, went home and took about 40 Percocet tablets and laid down on my bed to die. Luckily my parents found me and got me to the hospital in time. I remember when they injected me with Narcan in the ambulance. I sat straight up in the stretcher and just started screaming at the EMTs to just ****ing let me die.



I spent the next 10 days in the psych ward where I was diagnosed with bipolar one and generalized anxiety disorder(s). Started on medication for my BP and started therapy (DBT). And spent the next three years learning how to manage my disorder. And when my dear husband reached out and suggested we try again? One of the happiest days of my entire life. Right up there with the birth of my children.

So we are 18 months into this journey and I have some questions for anyone who is reconciling successfully. I am totally transparent about the affair. I have provided him a written timeline and have truthfully answered any and all of his questions. And he asked the same questions a lot of the time - and I answer every time without complaint. But does this ever stop? Don't get me wrong - whatever he needs to successfully reconcile? I am committed to giving him. But will he ever be satisfied with my (truthful) answers? Is he testing to see if my answers change? (I could understand that)

We are NOT going to rugsweep my affair. But I am just wondering if he has gone past looking for answers and pure pain shopping.

Any advice?


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## snowbum

Sounds like you have a keeper and 1 in 1,000,000. I don’t think the questions stop. That’s why I know I’m not 1 in 1,000,000 and wouldn’t be able to deal.


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## Casual Observer

ABiolarWife said:


> If you want all the details please look at my profile. Long story short...
> 
> 5 years ago I had a 6 month long affair with a coworker during my first ever manic episode. I was undiagnosed at the time (I am bipolar one) and my husband, rightfully, divorced me. I got into treatment for my disorder. Medication and therapy. Which I stick with and actively participate in as to better manage my day to day life. He reached out 18 months ago and we have been active reconciling since then. We have even remarried.
> 
> Reconciliation after an affair is a daunting prospect. Add in bipolar disorder and things get...complicated rather quickly. My husband went about things in a very smart way however. Before he confronted me, he got in touch with the other BS and shared the investigator's report. Pictures, videos, audio recordings - everything. My AP was also married and he and his wife had just delivered their first child...during the affair. Yes - I affaired WAY down.
> 
> But that cut me off from my AP right away. And I began to come out of the 'fog' just a bit. I was still riding a major manic episode however. The thing that finally 'snapped' me out of it was when I was served the divorce papers. That broke me.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I left my office, went home and took about 40 Percocet tablets and laid down on my bed to die. Luckily my parents found me and got me to the hospital in time. I remember when they injected me with Narcan in the ambulance. I sat straight up in the stretcher and just started screaming at the EMTs to just ****ing let me die.
> 
> 
> 
> I spent the next 10 days in the psych ward where I was diagnosed with bipolar one and generalized anxiety disorder(s). Started on medication for my BP and started therapy (DBT). And spent the next three years learning how to manage my disorder. And when my dear husband reached out and suggested we try again? One of the happiest days of my entire life. Right up there with the birth of my children.
> 
> So we are 18 months into this journey and I have some questions for anyone who is reconciling successfully. I am totally transparent about the affair. I have provided him a written timeline and have truthfully answered any and all of his questions. And he asked the same questions a lot of the time - and I answer every time without complaint. But does this ever stop? Don't get me wrong - whatever he needs to successfully reconcile? I am committed to giving him. But will he ever be satisfied with my (truthful) answers? Is he testing to see if my answers change? (I could understand that)
> 
> We are NOT going to rugsweep my affair. But I am just wondering if he has gone past looking for answers and pure pain shopping.
> 
> Any advice?


The questions, the concerns your husband has, they might never stop. I’ll tell you one thing for certain- any hint on your part that you expect them to stop, this year, next year, even 10 years from now… that itself is a trigger for your husband, something that will perpetuate his fears. Your best bet is to let him know that, because he wasn’t there, because you destroyed his trust in you, that you understand… well, you understand that you can’t understand. And all you can do is answer whatever questions he has, truthfully, over and over and over.


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## Rob_1

It will never be same again, but as long as you're upfront with him with his questions/demands you'll be in the right path. Just be aware, that it will take a long, long time for him to regain trust, and trust is everything in a relationship.


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## ABiolarWife

Casual Observer said:


> The questions, the concerns your husband has, they might never stop. I’ll tell you one thing for certain- any hint on your part that you expect them to stop, this year, next year, even 10 years from now… that itself is a trigger for your husband, something that will perpetuate his fears. Your best bet is to let him know that, because he wasn’t there, because you destroyed his trust in you, that you understand… well, you understand that you can’t understand. And all you can do is answer whatever questions he has, truthfully, over and over and over.


I will always answer his questions. As many times as he wants to ask. And I would never DARE to tell him not to ask. Oh no. He gets to ask whatever he wants whenever he wants. And I will answer truthfully every time.

I am just worried he is intentionally pain shopping. And, if there were one 'super power' I could have, it would be to take all his pain on myself. It tears me apart knowing the hurt I have caused him. But I also know that I cannot process the pain for him. All I can do is apologize for hurting him, leaning into his pain and giving him whatever I can to help him heal from my betrayal.

And I will do that until death parts us permanently. I love him so much and he has been so very good to me. Kind, loving and forgiving to a fault - that is the man I am in love with. He has shown me so much grace. It amazes me every day. And to think - I am privileged to wake up next to him every morning. I get to hold him and make love to him at night (or during the day!). Get to share my victories, large and small, with him daily. And he is always there to comfort me when things get overwhelming.

Thanks for the helpful reply.


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## ABiolarWife

snowbum said:


> Sounds like you have a keeper and 1 in 1,000,000. I don’t think the questions stop. That’s why I know I’m not 1 in 1,000,000 and wouldn’t be able to deal.


For a lot of people? Infidelity IS a deal breaker. And I understand completely. And our journey has been so different than anyone else's. It becomes hard to compare our situation to any other couple's journey.

For one - my husband does not have a tenth of the issues most men have with the affair sex. BC, before children, we had an, uh...how to put this delicately, _adventurous _sex life. And shared our bed with other lady friends and other couples. We're not swingers per se...but are not strangers to having sex, _together_, with other people.

What hurt him so badly was the lying, the deceit. And I could have avoided ALL of this pain and hurt just by talking to him, openly and honestly, and we could have hit on a compromise.

Thank you


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## snowbum

The fact you had an open marriage works in your favor in this case. I think those who are completly monogamous wouldn’t be so tolerant


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## ABiolarWife

snowbum said:


> The fact you had an open marriage works in your favor in this case. I think those who are completly monogamous wouldn’t be so tolerant


We really did not have an 'open marriage' either. Neither of us ever had sex with anyone else solo. Until my stupid ass had an affair that is :-( We were always together when we had other people share our bed.


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## A18S37K14H18

Reconciliation never ends.

It's like an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in 20 years is still an alcoholic and he/she still needs to be mindful, cautious and on guard regarding alcohol and their condition.

Reconciliation is forever. No, questions won't come fast and furious after years and years but waywards should know and expect to support their betrayed and answer questions for the rest of their lives.

There are too many triggers. Watching TV or a movie 5 years from now, 15 years from now that has cheating or an affair in it. Or a coworker, a neighbor or your own children might get cheated on and they will talk to your partner and you.

No doubt things like this will cause the betrayed to trigger and talk to their wayward again about aspects of what happened to them.

It's a common saying that infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving and last forever and it is true, whether one is reconciling or divorced. It is a permanent part of the betrayed lives so of course a wayward should realize that they will be asked questions, even decades later.


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## bobert

ABiolarWife said:


> So we are 18 months into this journey and I have some questions for anyone who is reconciling successfully. I am totally transparent about the affair. I have provided him a written timeline and have truthfully answered any and all of his questions. And he asked the same questions a lot of the time - and I answer every time without complaint. But does this ever stop? Don't get me wrong - whatever he needs to successfully reconcile? I am committed to giving him. But will he ever be satisfied with my (truthful) answers? Is he testing to see if my answers change? (I could understand that)
> 
> We are NOT going to rugsweep my affair. But I am just wondering if he has gone past looking for answers and pure pain shopping.


In the beginning I asked my wife the same questions over and over, and I was definitely still doing it 18 months after D-Day. Now, coming up on 4 years later, I can't really recall the last time I asked her questions. Don't get me wrong, they still do pop up from time to time (probably months in between) but I don't need to ask her or make a big deal out of it in my head. I already know all of the answers and I trust her answers. 

She gave me a very detailed timeline and she has always answered my questions no matter how many times I asked or how hard the answer was for her. And, just as importantly, she is very consistent, she has never been annoyed about it or said to get over it or gave that vibe, etc. We have also been through years of IC and MC. 

So if something comes up in my head and I feel the urge to ask her, I generally don't. It's harder if I'm triggered but I can usually tell myself that I already know the answer and can usually move on. The only exception I can think of right now was when I decided to read her timeline again and found a discrepancy. It was a small and rather irrelevant detail and she wrote it shortly before ending up in a psych hospital for an attempted suicide, so I knew she wasn't in the best place when it was written. Still, a discrepancy is different than questions just randomly popping up so I did eventually ask her about it but I think I waited months because it wasn't a huge deal and we had other things going on. If I had found that earlier on I'm sure I would have made a huge deal out of it. 

I wouldn't say that just asking questions is pain shopping, but of course I cannot speak for him or know what is going on in his head when he has questions. I don't think the questions ever stop completely though. They become less and less frequent and eventually the BS may keep the questions to themselves, making the WS think they have stopped when they haven't really.


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## ConanHub

ABiolarWife said:


> If you want all the details please look at my profile. Long story short...
> 
> 5 years ago I had a 6 month long affair with a coworker during my first ever manic episode. I was undiagnosed at the time (I am bipolar one) and my husband, rightfully, divorced me. I got into treatment for my disorder. Medication and therapy. Which I stick with and actively participate in as to better manage my day to day life. He reached out 18 months ago and we have been active reconciling since then. We have even remarried.
> 
> Reconciliation after an affair is a daunting prospect. Add in bipolar disorder and things get...complicated rather quickly. My husband went about things in a very smart way however. Before he confronted me, he got in touch with the other BS and shared the investigator's report. Pictures, videos, audio recordings - everything. My AP was also married and he and his wife had just delivered their first child...during the affair. Yes - I affaired WAY down.
> 
> But that cut me off from my AP right away. And I began to come out of the 'fog' just a bit. I was still riding a major manic episode however. The thing that finally 'snapped' me out of it was when I was served the divorce papers. That broke me.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I left my office, went home and took about 40 Percocet tablets and laid down on my bed to die. Luckily my parents found me and got me to the hospital in time. I remember when they injected me with Narcan in the ambulance. I sat straight up in the stretcher and just started screaming at the EMTs to just ****ing let me die.
> 
> 
> 
> I spent the next 10 days in the psych ward where I was diagnosed with bipolar one and generalized anxiety disorder(s). Started on medication for my BP and started therapy (DBT). And spent the next three years learning how to manage my disorder. And when my dear husband reached out and suggested we try again? One of the happiest days of my entire life. Right up there with the birth of my children.
> 
> So we are 18 months into this journey and I have some questions for anyone who is reconciling successfully. I am totally transparent about the affair. I have provided him a written timeline and have truthfully answered any and all of his questions. And he asked the same questions a lot of the time - and I answer every time without complaint. But does this ever stop? Don't get me wrong - whatever he needs to successfully reconcile? I am committed to giving him. But will he ever be satisfied with my (truthful) answers? Is he testing to see if my answers change? (I could understand that)
> 
> We are NOT going to rugsweep my affair. But I am just wondering if he has gone past looking for answers and pure pain shopping.
> 
> Any advice?


You're doing great and the questioning will usually slow down with time.


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## Casual Observer

ABiolarWife said:


> I will always answer his questions. As many times as he wants to ask. And I would never DARE to tell him not to ask. Oh no. He gets to ask whatever he wants whenever he wants. And I will answer truthfully every time.
> 
> I am just worried he is intentionally pain shopping. And, if there were one 'super power' I could have, it would be to take all his pain on myself. It tears me apart knowing the hurt I have caused him. But I also know that I cannot process the pain for him. All I can do is apologize for hurting him, leaning into his pain and giving him whatever I can to help him heal from my betrayal.
> 
> And I will do that until death parts us permanently. I love him so much and he has been so very good to me. Kind, loving and forgiving to a fault - that is the man I am in love with. He has shown me so much grace. It amazes me every day. And to think - I am privileged to wake up next to him every morning. I get to hold him and make love to him at night (or during the day!). Get to share my victories, large and small, with him daily. And he is always there to comfort me when things get overwhelming.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful reply.


I don’t know that he’s pain-shopping g as much as pain is finding him, and he may be feeling it’s finding him and not you. Not that he wishes pain on you, but he wonders why you’re immune to the triggers that set him off. If you understood what he’s going through, why wouldn’t you at times be set off by something (trigger) as well?

And so here is my grand epiphany. What if the betraying spouse was proactive? Instead of praying that your betrayed isn’t triggered, what if you see something on TV together, and you mention, with sadness & empathy, “So this is me, I’m the person doing this to that person. I am starting to see, maybe, how that character’s situation reminds you of what I did. Would you like to talk about it? I’m here. I’m not running away from your pain. Im beginning to get it.”

And later on, when you see triggers that set your partner off, maybe squeeze a hand, put an arm around a shoulder. Let your partner know you know.

Over time, your partner may come to see you’re on the same page. You get it. And that’s such a big thing. Does anybody GET me, my pain.


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## Bluesclues

8 1/2 years into reconciliation. I probably stopped asking questions around five years. I still wonder them sometimes, I just stopped asking. I didn’t ask again and again to see if the answers were the same and it certainly wasn’t pain shopping (no need to shop when you have a lifetime supply!). I asked because it didn’t make sense. I stopped asking because it will never make logical sense. My continued questions were of the “why?” variety, not facts and dates though. My husband has recently also been diagnosed bipolar and that has actually helped me gain a bit of understanding.


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## bobert

Casual Observer said:


> And so here is my grand epiphany. What if the betraying spouse was proactive? Instead of praying that your betrayed isn’t triggered, what if you see something on TV together, and you mention, with sadness & empathy, “So this is me, I’m the person doing this to that person. I am starting to see, maybe, how that character’s situation reminds you of what I did. Would you like to talk about it? I’m here. I’m not running away from your pain. Im beginning to get it.”


This may work for some people but I would definitely recommend talking to the BS before doing that.

My wife and I don't ususlly watch TV/movies with infidelity but occasionally it comes up unexpectedly. We are both aware of it and I don't need any extra reminders of it, or an acknowledgment that she feels like crap. I already know she does and I see and deal with more than enough shame already. I'd rather sit there with us both feeling awkward and let it pass. There are also times when a scene doesn't trigger me but it does trigger her. Her bringing it up like that would probably then put it on my mind when it wasn't there before.

That's just me and my situation though. The OP's husband may appreciate the gesture, but I'd talk about it before acting.


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## sokillme

ABiolarWife said:


> If you want all the details please look at my profile. Long story short...
> 
> 5 years ago I had a 6 month long affair with a coworker during my first ever manic episode. I was undiagnosed at the time (I am bipolar one) and my husband, rightfully, divorced me. I got into treatment for my disorder. Medication and therapy. Which I stick with and actively participate in as to better manage my day to day life. He reached out 18 months ago and we have been active reconciling since then. We have even remarried.
> 
> Reconciliation after an affair is a daunting prospect. Add in bipolar disorder and things get...complicated rather quickly. My husband went about things in a very smart way however. Before he confronted me, he got in touch with the other BS and shared the investigator's report. Pictures, videos, audio recordings - everything. My AP was also married and he and his wife had just delivered their first child...during the affair. Yes - I affaired WAY down.
> 
> But that cut me off from my AP right away. And I began to come out of the 'fog' just a bit. I was still riding a major manic episode however. The thing that finally 'snapped' me out of it was when I was served the divorce papers. That broke me.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I left my office, went home and took about 40 Percocet tablets and laid down on my bed to die. Luckily my parents found me and got me to the hospital in time. I remember when they injected me with Narcan in the ambulance. I sat straight up in the stretcher and just started screaming at the EMTs to just ****ing let me die.
> 
> 
> 
> I spent the next 10 days in the psych ward where I was diagnosed with bipolar one and generalized anxiety disorder(s). Started on medication for my BP and started therapy (DBT). And spent the next three years learning how to manage my disorder. And when my dear husband reached out and suggested we try again? One of the happiest days of my entire life. Right up there with the birth of my children.
> 
> So we are 18 months into this journey and I have some questions for anyone who is reconciling successfully. I am totally transparent about the affair. I have provided him a written timeline and have truthfully answered any and all of his questions. And he asked the same questions a lot of the time - and I answer every time without complaint. But does this ever stop? Don't get me wrong - whatever he needs to successfully reconcile? I am committed to giving him. But will he ever be satisfied with my (truthful) answers? Is he testing to see if my answers change? (I could understand that)
> 
> We are NOT going to rugsweep my affair. But I am just wondering if he has gone past looking for answers and pure pain shopping.
> 
> Any advice?


Nope never gonna stop. He may stop asking but he will still have them for the rest of his life. You don't get over infidelity you just learn to live with it. This is what you both signed up for.

It's unfortunate that this truth isn't really said. There is a lot of Disney thinking about affair recovery and trauma in general. People sell you this idea that you can completely heal from this. Now maybe you can if you are with someone else, I never trigger about the girl who cheated on me, but I married someone else.

However, almost 20 years ago I suffered serious trauma where I expected to die while saving someone else. Even now almost 20 years later, if I am under a intense stress I can feel myself ramping up and my body reacts like it was right back in that moment. It's absolutely disproportionate to the reality of the situation but never the less that's what happens. 

This is the same thing, I will be recovering from this trauma for the rest of my life, so with both of you.


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## Casual Observer

bobert said:


> This may work for some people but I would definitely recommend talking to the BS before doing that.
> 
> My wife and I don't ususlly watch TV/movies with infidelity but occasionally it comes up unexpectedly. We are both aware of it and I don't need any extra reminders of it, or an acknowledgment that she feels like crap. I already know she does and I see and deal with more than enough shame already. I'd rather sit there with us both feeling awkward and let it pass. There are also times when a scene doesn't trigger me but it does trigger her. Her bringing it up like that would probably then put it on my mind when it wasn't there before.
> 
> That's just me and my situation though. The OP's husband may appreciate the gesture, but I'd talk about it before acting.


Your situation is on the extreme end of things; you and your wife have a constant reminder of her affair that can’t be stepped away from. You don’t have to wait for a trigger to occur on TV. The flip side is that, perhaps because of it, you put yourself into a position of having to go all-in on your decision to R, in a way very few would even consider doing. You made a sacrifice your wife can’t ever forget.

So if anybody betrayed ever needed a vacation from being triggered, or discussing it, it would seem to be you. There is no shortage of awareness of your experience, your pain, your sacrifice. My message is not applicable or appropriate for you.


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## sokillme

ABiolarWife said:


> I will always answer his questions. As many times as he wants to ask. And I would never DARE to tell him not to ask. Oh no. He gets to ask whatever he wants whenever he wants. And I will answer truthfully every time.
> 
> I am just worried he is intentionally pain shopping. And, if there were one 'super power' I could have, it would be to take all his pain on myself. It tears me apart knowing the hurt I have caused him. But I also know that I cannot process the pain for him. All I can do is apologize for hurting him, leaning into his pain and giving him whatever I can to help him heal from my betrayal.
> 
> And I will do that until death parts us permanently. I love him so much and he has been so very good to me. Kind, loving and forgiving to a fault - that is the man I am in love with. He has shown me so much grace. It amazes me every day. And to think - I am privileged to wake up next to him every morning. I get to hold him and make love to him at night (or during the day!). Get to share my victories, large and small, with him daily. And he is always there to comfort me when things get overwhelming.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful reply.


Here is what I would say to this. I think a big part of this is trying to get centered in your own reality. He asks the same questions because his brain is trying to come to terms and believe what you said.

I know it sucks to see him in pain but it's better then him not caring, which is how someone else may respond. It means he still values having you for his own.


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## sokillme

ABiolarWife said:


> For a lot of people? Infidelity IS a deal breaker. And I understand completely. And our journey has been so different than anyone else's. It becomes hard to compare our situation to any other couple's journey.
> 
> For one - my husband does not have a tenth of the issues most men have with the affair sex. BC, before children, we had an, uh...how to put this delicately, _adventurous _sex life. And shared our bed with other lady friends and other couples. We're not swingers per se...but are not strangers to having sex, _together_, with other people.
> 
> What hurt him so badly was the lying, the deceit. And I could have avoided ALL of this pain and hurt just by talking to him, openly and honestly, and we could have hit on a compromise.
> 
> Thank you


OK, so now I don't believe this. I think he has a much bigger problem then either you or he realizes , and this probably contributes to why he is suffering so much. It's one thing to initiate bringing others into your bedroom, it's another to know your spouse wants to do it without you. I don't think the two are the same at all. 

I don't believe there is a man alive whose wife has a sexual affair, where the sex isn't a big if not the biggest issue after the fact, no matter how adventurous you are. Hot wife, or swingers. That's not how our nature works.

Sex is about shared personal and physical intimacy, that is one of if not the best thing about it, even better then orgasm. It's a physical closeness or secret you both share. It's that closeness that bonds you and locks you together. Now, I have never brought others into my bedroom with my wife but I suspect this still holds true, that it's still you both sharing something that at least in intent is unique to each other. Honestly I suspect your "swinging" (for lack of a term) has put you at a disadvantage so it's not intuitive for you to see this aspect of what was lost. 

You probably both just assume it's not a big deal or maybe you have never really thought there was any value in what I just said, but I suspect at least your husband emotional felt it maybe he didn't even realize it, and now he knows it's missing, but probably still doesn't fully understand that. He probably defaults to what you proposed here, "it's not like he hadn't seen me with other men before, so that's not a big deal". Nah.

I propose it's not the lying that hurts him but the lost of that closeness, that secret. The idea that you were his even when there were others with you. I suspect sex is probably a huge part of his problem even if you both assume it wouldn't be. It's like an itch he can't scratch because he is scratching in the wrong place.

I would start there. Talk about what was lost in your sexual intimacy and see if you can do things to bring it back.


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## Casual Observer

sokillme said:


> OK, so now I don't believe this. I think he has a much bigger problem then either you or he realizes , and this probably contributes to why he is suffering so much. It's one thing to initiate bringing others into your bedroom, it's another to know your spouse wants to do it without you. I don't think the two are the same at all.
> 
> Sex is about shared personal and physical intimacy, that is one of if not the best thing about it, even better then orgasm. It's a physical closeness or secret you both share. It's that closeness that bonds you and locks you together. Now, have never brought others into my bedroom I think this still holds true, that it's still you both sharing something that at least in intent is unique to each other. Honestly I suspect your "swinging" (for lack of a term) has put you at a disadvantage and stopped you failure to see this aspect of what was lost.
> 
> You probably both just assume it's not a big deal or maybe you have never really thought there was any value in what I just said, but I suspect at least your husband emotional felt it even if he didn't realize it, and now he knows it's missing, but probably still doesn't fully understand that.
> 
> I propose it's not the lying that hurts him but the lost of that closeness, that secret. The idea that you were his. I suspect sex is probably a huge part of his problem even if you both assume it wouldn't be.
> 
> I would start there.


Or it could be that he regrets the earlier adventures and wonders if her wandering was because she remembered those past “adventures” and he didn’t measure up/normal sex isn’t as exciting. Both making a guy feel terribly inadequate.


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## ABiolarWife

sokillme said:


> OK, so now I don't believe this. I think he has a much bigger problem then either you or he realizes , and this probably contributes to why he is suffering so much. It's one thing to initiate bringing others into your bedroom, it's another to know your spouse wants to do it without you. I don't think the two are the same at all.
> 
> I don't believe there is a man alive whose wife has a sexual affair, where the sex isn't a big if not the biggest issue after the fact, no matter how adventurous you are. Hot wife, or swingers. That's not how our nature works.
> 
> Sex is about shared personal and physical intimacy, that is one of if not the best thing about it, even better then orgasm. It's a physical closeness or secret you both share. It's that closeness that bonds you and locks you together. Now, I have never brought others into my bedroom with my wife but I suspect this still holds true, that it's still you both sharing something that at least in intent is unique to each other. Honestly I suspect your "swinging" (for lack of a term) has put you at a disadvantage so it's not intuitive for you to see this aspect of what was lost.
> 
> You probably both just assume it's not a big deal or maybe you have never really thought there was any value in what I just said, but I suspect at least your husband emotional felt it maybe he didn't even realize it, and now he knows it's missing, but probably still doesn't fully understand that. He probably defaults to what you proposed here, "it's not like he hadn't seen me with other men before, so that's not a big deal". Nah.
> 
> I propose it's not the lying that hurts him but the lost of that closeness, that secret. The idea that you were his even when there were others with you. I suspect sex is probably a huge part of his problem even if you both assume it wouldn't be. It's like an itch he can't scratch because he is scratching in the wrong place.
> 
> I would start there. Talk about what was lost in your sexual intimacy and see if you can do things to bring it back.


While I DO appreciate you taking time to respond? You are as wrong as you can be - and I do not care what you 'believe' or not. You do not know us at all. And you are projecting how YOU feel onto our relationship.

Those are HIS words - not my assumptions OR yours. So please - I would recommend not calling him a liar.


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## ABiolarWife

Casual Observer said:


> I don’t know that he’s pain-shopping g as much as pain is finding him, and he may be feeling it’s finding him and not you. Not that he wishes pain on you, but he wonders why you’re immune to the triggers that set him off. If you understood what he’s going through, why wouldn’t you at times be set off by something (trigger) as well?
> 
> And so here is my grand epiphany. What if the betraying spouse was proactive? Instead of praying that your betrayed isn’t triggered, what if you see something on TV together, and you mention, with sadness & empathy, “So this is me, I’m the person doing this to that person. I am starting to see, maybe, how that character’s situation reminds you of what I did. Would you like to talk about it? I’m here. I’m not running away from your pain. Im beginning to get it.”
> 
> And later on, when you see triggers that set your partner off, maybe squeeze a hand, put an arm around a shoulder. Let your partner know you know.
> 
> Over time, your partner may come to see you’re on the same page. You get it. And that’s such a big thing. Does anybody GET me, my pain.


What on earth makes you assume I am NOT triggered? I am not here to talk about my triggers and pain. I am here to talk about his pain and hurt.


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## ABiolarWife

bobert said:


> In the beginning I asked my wife the same questions over and over, and I was definitely still doing it 18 months after D-Day. Now, coming up on 4 years later, I can't really recall the last time I asked her questions. Don't get me wrong, they still do pop up from time to time (probably months in between) but I don't need to ask her or make a big deal out of it in my head. I already know all of the answers and I trust her answers.
> 
> She gave me a very detailed timeline and she has always answered my questions no matter how many times I asked or how hard the answer was for her. And, just as importantly, she is very consistent, she has never been annoyed about it or said to get over it or gave that vibe, etc. We have also been through years of IC and MC.
> 
> So if something comes up in my head and I feel the urge to ask her, I generally don't. It's harder if I'm triggered but I can usually tell myself that I already know the answer and can usually move on. The only exception I can think of right now was when I decided to read her timeline again and found a discrepancy. It was a small and rather irrelevant detail and she wrote it shortly before ending up in a psych hospital for an attempted suicide, so I knew she wasn't in the best place when it was written. Still, a discrepancy is different than questions just randomly popping up so I did eventually ask her about it but I think I waited months because it wasn't a huge deal and we had other things going on. If I had found that earlier on I'm sure I would have made a huge deal out of it.
> 
> I wouldn't say that just asking questions is pain shopping, but of course I cannot speak for him or know what is going on in his head when he has questions. I don't think the questions ever stop completely though. They become less and less frequent and eventually the BS may keep the questions to themselves, making the WS think they have stopped when they haven't really.


Thank you so much - this was very helpful.


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## ABiolarWife

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Reconciliation never ends.
> 
> It's like an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in 20 years is still an alcoholic and he/she still needs to be mindful, cautious and on guard regarding alcohol and their condition.
> 
> Reconciliation is forever. No, questions won't come fast and furious after years and years but waywards should know and expect to support their betrayed and answer questions for the rest of their lives.
> 
> There are too many triggers. Watching TV or a movie 5 years from now, 15 years from now that has cheating or an affair in it. Or a coworker, a neighbor or your own children might get cheated on and they will talk to your partner and you.
> 
> No doubt things like this will cause the betrayed to trigger and talk to their wayward again about aspects of what happened to them.
> 
> It's a common saying that infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving and last forever and it is true, whether one is reconciling or divorced. It is a permanent part of the betrayed lives so of course a wayward should realize that they will be asked questions, even decades later.


Thank you. That makes complete sense.


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## Casual Observer

ABiolarWife said:


> What on earth makes you assume I am NOT triggered? I am not here to talk about my triggers and pain. I am here to talk about his pain and hurt.


That’s what you got from what I wrote? This is about him, not you.


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## ABiolarWife

Casual Observer said:


> That’s what you got from what I wrote? This is about him, not you.


Did you read what I said? I agree. It is about him.


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## Casual Observer

ABiolarWife said:


> What on earth makes you assume I am NOT triggered? I am not here to talk about my triggers and pain. I am here to talk about his pain and hurt.





Casual Observer said:


> That’s what you got from what I wrote? This is about him, not you.





ABiolarWife said:


> Did you read what I said? I agree. It is about him.


Sorry I misunderstood. It sounded like you were focused on your own triggers.


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## ABiolarWife

Casual Observer said:


> Sorry I misunderstood. It sounded like you were focused on your own triggers.


No problem. No - I am focused on him. And that is where my focus needs to be.

Thank you


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