# Another one joins the ranks



## Eleftherios

Like to start off by saying hi and thanks for all the insight and knowledge everyone has shared. Found out about the wife's PA on June 29. It was all by chance. I got up to start my Saturday while in the bathroom there was the wife's phone. I never looked at her phone before but something told me to look. And there it was. Texts to the OM. I went into our room woke her and went off. I shouldn't have handled it that way but I was hurt and angry. Anyway I called her few choice words and told her pack her stuff and hit the bricks. I left for awhile to calm down and when I returned the kids were crying she was crying it is a mess. He is a IT guy who had been doing some work at her office. She did him in our family car after work in January. Don't even like getting into or looking at that car. She is 38 I'm 46 we have two boys 17 and 15. Sorry the story is so crazy I'm at my wits end. She hasn't seen or spoken to the OM since the 29th. She came clean about everything. She said she was feeling like I didn't want her, her mother had passed away it will be two years in November. She has low self esteem because of her weight and she said she was feeling like she wasn't needed because the boys are getting big and will be moving out soon. So I saw her slipping away before this happened and was unable to reach her. I do love her. I told her to stay withthe boys and I so it didn't totally ruin there bond. They wanted nothing to do with her. I let them be pissed for a week then forced them to speak to there mother. She was and still is devastated by the way her boys turned on her. We have been trying to get our lives back on track but I'm having a hell of a time. Im unsure about what I want. I try to reconcile but that is wearing off and all I want is for her to leave. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. We have been together for 20 years.


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## rrrbbbttt

Find a good MC if you want to R

Expose the IT Guy to his workplace his Girlfriend/wife as a POS.

If your wife works in the same company as the IT Guy inform HR.

If it is in the same company, your wife needs to find a new job away from him.

Have her write a timeline of all that occurred.

Have her write a NC letter to him, you read it and you send it.

She has to be completely open to you on everything.

If need be separate your finances and prepare for D.

Sorry you are here


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## Will_Kane

Eleftherios said:


> We have been trying to get our lives back on track but I'm having a hell of a time. Im unsure about what I want. I try to reconcile but that is wearing off and all I want is for her to leave. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. We have been together for 20 years.


Is there any one thing in particular?

First off, if the car bothers you, get rid of it, just like you would any other car with serious mechanical problems. Same with any clothes she wore for the other man. Same with any other thing that reminds you of the affair. Her phone. Her computer. Any "songs" they shared. Anything that is a trigger for you.

If she still sees him at work she should change jobs.

What was the content of the messages they exchanged? I love you's, too, or just sexual?


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## Bugz Bunny

Eleftherios said:


> Like to start off by saying hi and thanks for all the insight and knowledge everyone has shared. Found out about the wife's PA on June 29. It was all by chance. I got up to start my Saturday while in the bathroom there was the wife's phone. I never looked at her phone before but something told me to look. And there it was. Texts to the OM. I went into our room woke her and went off. I shouldn't have handled it that way but I was hurt and angry. Anyway I called her few choice words and told her pack her stuff and hit the bricks. I left for awhile to calm down and when I returned the kids were crying she was crying it is a mess. He is a IT guy who had been doing some work at her office. She did him in our family car after work in January. Don't even like getting into or looking at that car. She is 38 I'm 46 we have two boys 17 and 15. Sorry the story is so crazy I'm at my wits end. She hasn't seen or spoken to the OM since the 29th. She came clean about everything. She said she was feeling like I didn't want her, her mother had passed away it will be two years in November. She has low self esteem because of her weight and she said she was feeling like she wasn't needed because the boys are getting big and will be moving out soon. So I saw her slipping away before this happened and was unable to reach her. I do love her. I told her to stay withthe boys and I so it didn't totally ruin there bond. *They wanted nothing to do with her. I let them be pissed for a week then forced them to speak to there mother.* She was and still is devastated by the way her boys turned on her. We have been trying to get our lives back on track but I'm having a hell of a time. Im unsure about what I want. I try to reconcile but that is wearing off and all I want is for her to leave. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. We have been together for 20 years.


Never force your kids to do something like that...they must deal with it in their own way and not on your or somebody elses time limit...this experience is very damaging for children and forcing them to interact with someone who just destroyed their world is cruel and not fair...

Remember just like you are healing on your "time" and deciding to reconcile or divorce the kids have the sam rights to deal with their emotions...

Good Luck


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## weightlifter

A bit of clarity. You appear to be combining two questions into one.

1) Is the cheating spouse doing enough to warrant reconciliation?
2) Is the betrayed spouse even capable of reconciling knowing that another man has been inside her?

You need TWO yesses above not one. There is no shame in answering no to #2.

You need to expand a bit.
Approximate time of first innocent meeting?
first time of inappropriate? (Kissing or sexting for example)
first time full out PIV?
Approx number of times?
Is this guy a known player?
How did it evolve from innocent to first time?

You need to figure out if you are a no details guy or an all details guy. Some men need everything detailed to quiet the mind movies because they imagine OM is a circus sex stud. Some need nothing.

Just be ready for the fact she probably did stuff for him she may well have outright refused to do with you.


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## ceejay93

As the son of a woman who cheated, telling your sons to talk to her won't accomplish anything. In fact, they'll dislike her more.

My dad is trying the same thing and it ain't working!

They have to come to terms with what she did at their own pace and in their own way. I've spoken to my mom 3 times in the past 5 months and one of those instances was a text to ask if my dad had arrived from a trip. I haven't gone home in a year cause I don't want to see her!

You need to talk to your sons after you've made a decision. Not before. Once you've made a choice and have stuck with it for a couple of months, sit them down and let them know that you won't be leaving their mother, therefore, they need to learn to tolerate her (you can't force them to forgive; that's a personal choice).

If, however, you're leaving their mother, you're going to be in almost no position to make them talk to her (from their perspective). Their relationship with her can only be healed by her reaching out to them NOT the other way around. 

As for your marriage, the moments of anger will come and go. Some days you'll feel pity and other days it'll be anger and emasculation coupled with a bit of shame. It's a hard road. I'm currently watching my dad go through it and it's absolutely devastating. 

All I can say is, don't be in a hurry to make a decision. My dad has divorce papers drawn out, his assets have been moved around, and he's got multiple homes and lives a different country than my mom (work; I live in a different country than either of them for school!). Anyway, prepare for the worst with the D papers but hope for the best!


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## workindad

I understand the reaction your kids are having we are dealing with that as well. She needs to understand that she betrayed the family and not just you. Once she accepts that then she can work to rebuild the relationship with your kids. 

As for what you want, you do not need to rush to figure it out. Have you both been checked for stds? You should get checked. 

Are you sure she has not taken her affair further underground? Does she still work at the same place. Does he still do it work there also?

What is she doing to repair the marriage? Have you tried mc?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. Go slow.
Cheaters lie, don't believe a word for a while. Get the whole truth now.


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## The Middleman

First off, as someone who grew up with infidelity, it's not fair of you to force your sons to talk to their mother. They are angry with her for destroying their lives and rightfully so. What they are doing is stigmatizing her and her behavior and in my opinion, that's a good thing. In time, if it's in their hearts, they will forgive her. If not, so be it. It's part of her "payment" process. 

As far as you not wanting to reconcile, there is no shame in that; I wouldn't if I were in your position.


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## sinnister

Some people can not handle infidelity. It's a deal breaker. You sound like you're done. Marriage counselling may help but it also may just delay the inevitable. It's scary moving on, and I'm not qualified to give this advice because I haven't ever been divorced, but I think your kids would not fault you if you decided to move on.


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## Eleftherios

rrrbbbttt said:


> Find a good MC if you want to R
> 
> Expose the IT Guy to his workplace his Girlfriend/wife as a POS.
> 
> If your wife works in the same company as the IT Guy inform HR.
> 
> If it is in the same company, your wife needs to find a new job away from him.
> 
> Have her write a timeline of all that occurred.
> 
> Have her write a NC letter to him, you read it and you send it
> 
> If need be separate your finances and prepare for D.
> 
> Sorry you are here


He was an outside contractor
It was a one time thing
There has been NC since before DDay
Already split the finances


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## Shaggy

Eleftherios said:


> He was an outside contractor
> It was a one time thing
> There has been NC since before DDay
> Already split the finances


No it wasn't a one time thing.

She had sex with him in January, and she's still texting him 6 months later.

Sorry, but that's neither a one time thing, nor does it show that she had guilt or remorse for her affair, because she kept in contact with him all along.

I'd be telling the boss about the guy, so the guy can loose the contract. I'd also be finding out the guys wife or go and letting her know about the affair.

As for your wife - polygraph ASAP


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## Eleftherios

Will_Kane said:


> Is there any one thing in particular?
> 
> First off, if the car bothers you, get rid of it, just like you would any other car with serious mechanical problems. Same with any clothes she wore for the other man. Same with any other thing that reminds you of the affair. Her phone. Her computer. Any "songs" they shared. Anything that is a trigger for you.
> 
> If she still sees him at work she should change jobs.
> 
> What was the content of the messages they exchanged? I love you's, too, or just sexual?


The content of the texts were her trying to meet with him and he just blew her off. It was kind of sad now that I think about it. 

I'm kind of stuck with the car. I'd be upside down if I traded it in.

The phone, clothes ect doesnt bother me.


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## Rottdad42

E, sorry for your loss. That's what this is. What I mean is the marriage you had is gone. Trust, gone. Respect, gone everything you once had is gone. Can you reconcile (R) unknown. Nobody has a one time thing. This has been building for a while. Were there red flags before this, other than distance and self esteem. Think about it. For your kids I would think that forcing them to speak with mom should be done on their terms. For you try and maintain your health and mental well being, this will take a toll. You will survive, good luck.


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## Truthseeker1

ceejay93 said:


> *As the son of a woman who cheated, telling your sons to talk to her won't accomplish anything. In fact, they'll dislike her more.*
> 
> My dad is trying the same thing and it ain't working!
> 
> They have to come to terms with what she did at their own pace and in their own way. I've spoken to my mom 3 times in the past 5 months and one of those instances was a text to ask if my dad had arrived from a trip. *I haven't gone home in a year cause I don't want to see her!*
> 
> You need to talk to your sons after you've made a decision. Not before. Once you've made a choice and have stuck with it for a couple of months, sit them down and let them know that you won't be leaving their mother,* therefore, they need to learn to tolerate her (you can't force them to forgive; that's a personal choice).*
> 
> If, however, you're leaving their mother, you're going to be in almost no position to make them talk to her (from their perspective). Their relationship with her can only be healed by her reaching out to them NOT the other way around.
> 
> As for your marriage, the moments of anger will come and go. Some days you'll feel pity and other days it'll be anger and emasculation coupled with a bit of shame. It's a hard road. I'm currently watching my dad go through it and it's absolutely devastating.
> 
> All I can say is, don't be in a hurry to make a decision. My dad has divorce papers drawn out, his assets have been moved around, and he's got multiple homes and lives a different country than my mom (work; I live in a different country than either of them for school!). Anyway, prepare for the worst with the D papers but hope for the best!


Thanks for this contribution - more WS should read your words and realize what they are doing to their ENTIRE family before they enjoy their selfish tryst. I don't care what their reasons are - there is never an excuse to destroy a whole family.


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## lifeistooshort

Whatever you decide to do I think you should tell your boys that while their mother made a poor choice you are dealing with adult issues they don't understand, so they should try to remember that in their dealings with their mother. While it might make you feel good that your kids picked your side it's ultimately going to be very toxic for them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anuvia

Eleftherios said:


> Like to start off by saying hi and thanks for all the insight and knowledge everyone has shared. Found out about the wife's PA on June 29. It was all by chance. I got up to start my Saturday while in the bathroom there was the wife's phone. I never looked at her phone before but something told me to look. And there it was. Texts to the OM. I went into our room woke her and went off. I shouldn't have handled it that way but I was hurt and angry. Anyway I called her few choice words and told her pack her stuff and hit the bricks. I left for awhile to calm down and when I returned the kids were crying she was crying it is a mess. He is a IT guy who had been doing some work at her office. She did him in our family car after work in January. Don't even like getting into or looking at that car. She is 38 I'm 46 we have two boys 17 and 15. Sorry the story is so crazy I'm at my wits end. She hasn't seen or spoken to the OM since the 29th. She came clean about everything. *She said she was feeling like I didn't want her, her mother had passed away it will be two years in November. She has low self esteem because of her weight and she said she was feeling like she wasn't needed because the boys are getting big and will be moving out soon.* So I saw her slipping away before this happened and was unable to reach her. I do love her. I told her to stay withthe boys and I so it didn't totally ruin there bond. They wanted nothing to do with her. I let them be pissed for a week then forced them to speak to there mother. She was and still is devastated by the way her boys turned on her. We have been trying to get our lives back on track but I'm having a hell of a time. Im unsure about what I want. I try to reconcile but that is wearing off and all I want is for her to leave. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. We have been together for 20 years.


She's lying to you. This is all a part of the cheater's script. Don't allow her to try to blame you for her cheating on you.


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## Anuvia

Eleftherios said:


> *The content of the texts were her trying to meet with him and he just blew her off.* It was kind of sad now that I think about it.
> 
> I'm kind of stuck with the car. I'd be upside down if I traded it in.
> 
> The phone, clothes ect doesnt bother me.


Wow! Kick her to the curb man. She's was throwing herself at the other man and he just discarded her like a piece of trash. Maybe he has a more accurate appraisal of her than you do.


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## Truthseeker1

lifeistooshort said:


> Whatever you decide to do I think you should tell your boys that while their mother made a poor choice you are dealing with adult issues they don't understand, so they should try to remember that in their dealings with their mother. While it might make you feel good that your kids picked your side it's ultimately going to be very toxic for them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Their mother created this toxic situation for them by cheating...the damage is now done...she needs to figure out how to help them move on...


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## lifeistooshort

Truthseeker1 said:


> Their mother created this toxic situation for them by cheating...the damage is now done...she needs to figure out how to help them move on...



No, their mother did create this and must do her part but their father is every as important in terms of helping them get through this, esp since he still has moral high ground. They are rightly upset at her now but eventually will evaluate how their father dealt with things as well. He has a lot of power to help them heal and would be doing them a great service. If he deals with this with dignity he will become a moral giant to them, esp as young men, and will teach them how to deal with sh$tty things that happen to them. Watching how my parents dealt with their marital issues and ultimate divorce definitely contributed to how I view them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1

lifeistooshort said:


> No, their mother did create this and must do her part but their father is every but as important in terms of helping them get through this, esp since he still has moral high ground. They are rightly upset at her now but eventually will evaluate how their father dealt with things as well. He has a lot of power to help them heal and would be doing them a great service.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He can indeed help but she already did the damage...


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## thatbpguy

Eleftherios said:


> Like to start off by saying hi and thanks for all the insight and knowledge everyone has shared. Found out about the wife's PA on June 29. It was all by chance. I got up to start my Saturday while in the bathroom there was the wife's phone. I never looked at her phone before but something told me to look. And there it was. Texts to the OM. I went into our room woke her and went off. I shouldn't have handled it that way but I was hurt and angry. Anyway I called her few choice words and told her pack her stuff and hit the bricks. I left for awhile to calm down and when I returned the kids were crying she was crying it is a mess. He is a IT guy who had been doing some work at her office. She did him in our family car after work in January. Don't even like getting into or looking at that car. She is 38 I'm 46 we have two boys 17 and 15. Sorry the story is so crazy I'm at my wits end. She hasn't seen or spoken to the OM since the 29th. She came clean about everything. She said she was feeling like I didn't want her, her mother had passed away it will be two years in November. She has low self esteem because of her weight and she said she was feeling like she wasn't needed because the boys are getting big and will be moving out soon. So I saw her slipping away before this happened and was unable to reach her. I do love her. I told her to stay withthe boys and I so it didn't totally ruin there bond. They wanted nothing to do with her. I let them be pissed for a week then forced them to speak to there mother. She was and still is devastated by the way her boys turned on her. We have been trying to get our lives back on track but I'm having a hell of a time. Im unsure about what I want. *I try to reconcile but that is wearing off and all I want is for her to leave.* Any advice will be greatly appreciated. We have been together for 20 years.


Sorry I'm coming late to this thread but wanted to address your starting post.

_"All I want is for her to leave"._

OK, then so be it. Out she goes. I have no problems with betrayal as the kiss of death to a marriage. I also have no problems trying to work it out. That decision is yours and yours alone.

That said, you may want to either spend some serious time with the boys or have them speak with a therapist regaqrding their relationship with their mother. I mean, yes, she has fully betrayed them as well but they could end up going sideways as a result and I think it is also important they don't feed off of you with respect to their mother. They need to deal with her on their terms, not yours.


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## MattMatt

Family therapy. Soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad

Op if (big if) this was a ONS it sounds like his choosing not hers. I'm not sure why he'd still be texting her for months afterwards if wasn't looking to score 

Get tested for stds
Have her take a polygraph, be prepared for a parking lot confession. I doubt you have all the truth yet. 

Cheaters lie and minimize as much as possible. Be prepared for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## workindad

Also find his SO and let them know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB

Eleftherios said:


> She hasn't seen or spoken to the OM since the 29th. *She came clean about everything.* She said she was feeling like I didn't want her... She has low self esteem because of her weight and *she said she was feeling like she wasn't needed because the boys are getting big and will be moving out soon.*





rrrbbbttt said:


> Have her write a timeline of all that occurred.


Eleft,

Sorry you got your membership to Betrayed-Land. The ride sure is a bumpy one.

You state she has come clean... Hmmm, not very likely. As rrrbbtt said get her to do a detailed timeline. Get the cell logs off the net, then bounce the log against the timeline. Start digging now. 

I got the same story from my wife when caught, insecure, lonely, kids leaving house. It was supposedly a one-time moment of weakness with a long lost BF. After, digging into the _"deleted" _emails, turns out she had been serially cheating for over 6 years with at least 3 OM. 

The point... I'm 4 years out from DD, 2 years of counseling, read enough print to start a library, what have I learned about cheaters... *There is always more than ever admitted.*


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## 6301

First of all, stop feeling sorry for her. If the shoe was on the other foot, you think she would be feeling sorry for you. Truth is she would have thrown you out. 

Second. I agree it's a terrible thing to lose ones mother but that doesn't give you reason to have an affair. It doesn't jive. If she has a weight problem and it didn't bother you, there should be no reason for her to go out and have an affair either. It was an excuse and if her kids are pissed off at her, they have every right in the world to do so. 

As far as getting rid of the car, the clothes she wore, the underwear she wore, or any other item that reminds you of the affair, what good would that do when she's still there. The car didn't have an affair with her or her clothes. It was the woman driving the car and wearing the clothes that did it. 

If you want her gone than tell her. Lord only knows that it's not easy to sh!t can 20 years with her, but if that's how you feel then do it. Your kids won't blame you for it and if there's any blame, it's on her and her bad choices she made.


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## Kobo

Bugz Bunny said:


> Never force your kids to do something like that...they must deal with it in their own way and not on your or somebody elses time limit...this experience is very damaging for children and forcing them to interact with someone who just destroyed their world is cruel and not fair...
> 
> Remember just like you are healing on your "time" and deciding to reconcile or divorce the kids have the sam rights to deal with their emotions...
> 
> Good Luck


He said speak to their mother. They're about to be men. They need to know how to have conversations when upset.


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## Wazza

If you are done, you are done. Just make the divorce as painless as possible.

If you decide to work on the marriage, you may find that details matter, and the biggest gap I see in your story is that she is still texting him six months after a one night stand. And others have said, cheaters lie. Even normally truthful people.

So you need to get to the truth..because it will eat at you. I would gather all the information I could, so I had ways to verify what she is saying. And I would then push for an explanation as to why she is still texting him. Whether she came clean or came out with more crap would have a big influence on whether I decided to reconcile.


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## Eleftherios

Ok, the guy came to her job a couple times. They flirted. The last time he came there it worked out that just he and she were there at the end of the day he had been hitting on her he kissed her and they ****ed. She tried contacting him but he kept blowing her off. 
When the **** hit the fan I called her some bad names and such. My boys witnessed it. After I gained my composure I called her and them into the kitchen to say I shouldn't have called your mother those names and I did so out of anger. They wouldnt utter two words to her or look her in the face. I made them talk to her and I told them they don't have to forgive her right now it will come at there pace. They still need to be civil to her no matter what. And I am trying to show them how to deal with things in a adult manner. Even though what she did was wrong they still need they're mother. It's not the same but they're doing better. My mom left when I was 5 and I didn't see her again for 20 years. Don't want my kids to go through that. 
As far as dealing with the OM. He'll get his in time. What people fail to realize is google isn't a joke. I know more about him than he does of me. I called him on DD. he didn't answer and won't return my call. Go figure.
She has and is showing remorse. She has given me full transparency. Email phone the whole deal. She hasn't been anywhere without me or one of the kids with her besides work. She wants to work on this and is very sincere. I've checked the phone records and his number doesn't come up in the records till January. 
I'm feeling very overwhelmed with this now that the fog has lifted. She is worth trying to make it work. I can get over her being with him just gonna take time. I guess I need to be alone and not see her as much. Can't make good decisions from a bad state of mind. And good people do make mistakes. We were going through changes in our marriage at the time this happened. She is going through midlife crisis and still is depressed by her mothers passing and the whole empty nest thing. And trying to deal with mortality. People usually don't go through that till 50. Not making excuses for her just putting it out there.
Trying to answer as many questions as I can. I have been doing well despite the situation. Have to keep my **** together so my boys can have a good role model. 

Eleftherios


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## Wazza

How is she explaining trying to contact him for six months after the sex? What is the phone usage to his number like over that six months?


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## lifeistooshort

Wazza said:


> How is she explaining trying to contact him for six months after the sex? What is the phone usage to his number like over that six months?


Does make you wonder if she isn't remorseful because scumbag om blew het off. Very sad to wreck your family for someone that saw you as nothing more then a cheap piece of a$$.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Eleftherios said:


> Ok, the guy came to her job a couple times. They flirted. The last time he came there it worked out that just he and she were there at the end of the day he had been hitting on her he kissed her and they ****ed. She tried contacting him but he kept blowing her off.
> When the **** hit the fan I called her some bad names and such. My boys witnessed it. After I gained my composure I called her and them into the kitchen to say I shouldn't have called your mother those names and I did so out of anger. They wouldnt utter two words to her or look her in the face. I made them talk to her and I told them they don't have to forgive her right now it will come at there pace. They still need to be civil to her no matter what. And I am trying to show them how to deal with things in a adult manner. Even though what she did was wrong they still need they're mother. It's not the same but they're doing better. My mom left when I was 5 and I didn't see her again for 20 years. Don't want my kids to go through that.
> As far as dealing with the OM. He'll get his in time. What people fail to realize is google isn't a joke. I know more about him than he does of me. I called him on DD. he didn't answer and won't return my call. Go figure.
> She has and is showing remorse. She has given me full transparency. Email phone the whole deal. She hasn't been anywhere without me or one of the kids with her besides work. She wants to work on this and is very sincere. I've checked the phone records and his number doesn't come up in the records till January.
> I'm feeling very overwhelmed with this now that the fog has lifted. She is worth trying to make it work. I can get over her being with him just gonna take time. I guess I need to be alone and not see her as much. Can't make good decisions from a bad state of mind. And good people do make mistakes. We were going through changes in our marriage at the time this happened. She is going through midlife crisis and still is depressed by her mothers passing and the whole empty nest thing. And trying to deal with mortality. People usually don't go through that till 50. *Not making excuses for her *just putting it out there.
> Trying to answer as many questions as I can. I have been doing well despite the situation. Have to keep my **** together so my boys can have a good role model.
> 
> Eleftherios


But you are...

Yes, these were factors, but the main reason she cheated is the opportunity presented itself and she then chose to take it. She also wanted to continue having sex with the OM, but he blew her off. I mean, they met a few times, flirted, then the first time the OM hits on her, she has sex with him right there on the spot(At work???)

What does that tell you about your WS and who she is/has become? She has some major problems. You do realize that this is VERY likely going to happen again, right? That is unless she gets professional help and works on herself.

Many BSs think that they are trying to save what they once had by R'ing. The problem is that what they once had is gone. Never to return.

You can try to build a new relationship, or marriage, but the original has long since set sail. Don't waste any time chasing a "ghost ship". You'll only be chasing a memory.

You want to R and that is understandable. Remember, it takes two people who are BOTH willing and interested in R for the right reasons. Not just because the affair didn't pan out, they got caught, or afraid of loosing their lifestyle...

Good luck.


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## Wazza

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> But you are...
> 
> Yes, these were factors, but the main reason she cheated is the opportunity presented itself and she then chose to take it. She also wanted to continue having sex with the OM, but he blew her off. I mean, they met a few times, flirted, then the first time the OM hits on her, she has sex with him right there on the spot(At work???)
> 
> What does that tell you about your WS and who she is/has become? She has some major problems. You do realize that this is VERY likely going to happen again, right? That is unless she gets professional help and works on herself.
> 
> Many BSs think that they are trying to save what they once had by R'ing. The problem is that what they once had is gone. Never to return.
> 
> You can try to build a new relationship, or marriage, but the original has long since set sail. Don't waste any time chasing a "ghost ship". You'll only be chasing a memory.
> 
> You want to R and that is understandable. Remember, it takes two people who are BOTH willing and interested in R for the right reasons. Not just because the affair didn't pan out, they got caught, or afraid of loosing their lifestyle...
> 
> Good luck.


As one who reconciled, I agree with this.


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## RWB

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Many BSs think that they are trying to save what they once had by R'ing. The problem is that what they once had is gone. Never to return.
> 
> *You can try to build a new relationship, or marriage, but the original has long since set sail. Don't waste any time chasing a "ghost ship". *You'll only be chasing a memory.
> 
> Good luck.


Oh so true.

I remember my wife crying on DD, "doesn't 25 years of me be faithful count for something." I responded with "I guess not, since you would throw it all away to have another man."

See GP point... once you selfishly betray your spouse, break your vows, destroy the trust... that marriage is done, over, never to recognized as a union again. Some here at CWI even advocate divorcing before attempting any form of reconciliation.


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## Wazza

RWB said:


> Oh so true.
> 
> I remember my wife crying on DD, "doesn't 25 years of me be faithful count for something." I responded with "I guess not, since you would throw it all away to have another man."
> 
> See GP point... once you selfishly betray your spouse, break your vows, destroy the trust... that marriage is done, over, never to recognized as a union again. Some here at CWI even advocate divorcing before attempting any form of reconciliation.


Don't agree with this as a general principal. Marriages can heal. The union can be restored.


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## Vanguard

Jesus Christ 20 years. I don't know man. 

Why the hell do people put their loved ones in this kind of situation? 

I don't know what to tell you. I think you should leave her- your kids are well-formed enough emotionally to understand and come to terms with it. I was with my ex for 11 years and cutting myself away was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. 

Ask yourself if there's a discrepancy between what is best for you and what you are capable of doing. I don't say that mockingly- this is a horrible situation you're in, and I'm so sorry it has been foisted upon you.


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## Vanguard

Wazza said:


> Don't agree with this as a general principal. Marriages can heal. The union can be restored.


I don't agree. I think new structures can be built. But you can't make a building out of ash.


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## Mr Blunt

Congratulations on your decision to R. If you are successful I think you, your wife, and your children will be better off in the years to come than if you D.

You and your wife are going to have to sign up to work at this for many years. Your wife is going to have to work extra hard and for many many years. Her issues that you mention (see reprint below) will only be improved upon with her getting a lot stronger.



> She is going through midlife crisis and still is depressed by her mothers passing and the whole empty nest thing. And trying to deal with mortality



You are going to have to build yourself up also. I would suggest that you get as self-reliant as possible. I know you cannot get completely self reliant but the closer you get to self sufficiency the better you will be able to handle the hits that will come in the future and more able to help your whole family.

*At this point I would encourage you both to diligently pursue building yourself up in all ways from all sources*. Find out the proper balance in you building yourself up and you helping your wife and children. You do not want to try and fix everything in your wife although that maybe your desire. Some things only she can fix. * You are mostly responsible and capable of helping yourself; in doing so you will be better able to help the whole family.*

Blunt


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## Wazza

Vanguard said:


> I don't agree. I think new structures can be built. But you can't make a building out of ash.


I guess we can explore analogies. But I did it. Blunt did it. Others too. It is possible.


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## RWB

Wazza said:


> Don't agree with this as a general principal. Marriages can heal. The union can be restored.


I agree with you 100%. My wife and I have reconciled our marriage. It's been 4 years since that horrible night I found out she had been serially cheating on me. 

I think GP point is still valid. The Betrayed MARRIAGE is NO MORE. Whether you stay marry and work it out or divorce and re-marry at a later date has no bearing.


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## TDSC60

You are rationalizing her behavior with all the bad aspects in her life at the time. It really sounds as if you are trying to justify what she has done.

First - this was not a mistake - it was a conscious decision she made with no thought of or respect for you or your boys.

Second - it sounds like she is just sorry she got caught not sorry that she cheated.

Third - it sounds to me like YOU are trying to convince yourself to give the marriage another try. 

If my wife cheated physically that would show me without a doubt that she is not in love with me, does not respect me even enough to tell me the truth. In short, that would be the end of the marriage, no second chances. Nothing kills love faster than a cheating wife.

You need to get away for a week or so by yourself with no contact with her at all and limited contact with your boys. Maybe tell her that you are going away to figure out what you want to do next and tell them they can call you with emergencies but you would rather be left alone until you get back.


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## MattMatt

Vanguard said:


> I don't agree. I think new structures can be built. But you can't make a building out of ash.


You are wrong on that one. Ash, mixed with cement, makes very fine building blocks.


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## Eleftherios

Good evening everyone . To answer a couple more questions. She called me and told me she had to work over they went to store bought condoms did it in said parking lot in family car. 
I'm not trying to justify her actions. She and I were still in a bad place while she was texting him and his charm and conversation made her feel good about herself. That's the reason for the texts.
She has said to me that it was a selfish act on her behalf and if she could take it back she would. I witnessed the pain in her eyes face and body over the destruction she caused. Just to reaffirm I'm not justifying s*#t. What she did was wrong on all levels. As far as exposing her at her job I don't think that would be constructive. She has a very good job and if it doesn't work between us she will need that. I first thought that she took the affair underground but from her actions and my access to phone and such it hasn't shown yet. As far as my marriage it ended on June 29 2013. The funny thing is now we talk and get along better than ever. We both feel that we can't go back to what we had before. We have to start over but with kids and such mixed in kinda like a dis functional Brady bunch if you will. As far as my boys are concerned I talked to them man to man and explained that what they feel is ok to feel. They just need to tell her where she stands with them. They spoke to her individually and let me tell you they let her have it. I'm glad I did what I did for my boys sake. It started the path to there healing. My 17 year old is handling it quite well. He's a very smart and mature young man. The 15 year old is doing way better. He was a wreck at first but now he is coming around quite nicely.


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## BashfulB

You should still file for divorce and hold it over her head. If she screws up again you let it finalize. If she works and does everything you need her to do to heal you and the marriage, you can cancel it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AngryandUsed

OP,

Dont rugsweep her affair.
There is so much more you dont know. I cant believe that a mother of 2 kids will throw herself to a young man who just saw her 2 times.

More. More. More.


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## Eleftherios

I may have been betrayed but I'm not blind. I don't get the story either. But in all the investigating I've done his number doesn't show till after the act. There are no emails. I asked again today about the whole story. She told me exactly the same story as on DD. it was shortly after Christmas New Year holiday. She said she had been really depressed about her mothers death, her weight, anxiety over all the empty nest midlife crisis. She had been seeing a therapist. We were not getting along and she felt I didn't want her any longer. She said I can't tell anything about what didn't happen. She said it just started in January and her trying to contact him after wards was because he made her feel good. I'm not rug sweeping the affair. This is so far out of character for my WS. Im seeing a shrink this week for myself. I truly want to be with her but I have trouble believing her story just as you others have. At this point and time when she kisses me says cute things to me I think you do that for him too.im thinking of moving out for awhile. It's easier for me financially and logistically than her. 
I have to say the comment about working on yourself is a very wise one. That's the approach I've been taking. Ive quit smoking it's been almost 30 days. Cold Turkey. Started riding my bike to get the lungs back. Changed my diet. Started research on affairs and that how I found this community. Enough rambling for today. Thanks again for taking time with me.and by the way what are these likes? I have a couple from people and don't know what they are. Forgive me for being non forum savvy


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## Kallan Pavithran

Eleftherios said:


> I may have been betrayed but I'm not blind. I don't get the story either. But in all the investigating I've done his number doesn't show till after the act. There are no emails. I asked again today about the whole story. She told me exactly the same story as on DD. it was shortly after Christmas New Year holiday. She said she had been really depressed about her mothers death, her weight, anxiety over all the empty nest midlife crisis. She had been seeing a therapist. We were not getting along and she felt I didn't want her any longer. She said I can't tell anything about what didn't happen. She said it just started in January and her trying to contact him after wards was because he made her feel good. I'm not rug sweeping the affair. This is so far out of character for my WS. Im seeing a shrink this week for myself. I truly want to be with her but *I have trouble believing her story* just as you others have. At this point and time when she kisses me says cute things to me I think you do that for him too.im thinking of moving out for awhile. It's easier for me financially and logistically than her.
> I have to say the comment about working on yourself is a very wise one. That's the approach I've been taking. Ive quit smoking it's been almost 30 days. Cold Turkey. Started riding my bike to get the lungs back. Changed my diet. Started research on affairs and that how I found this community. Enough rambling for today. Thanks again for taking time with me.and by the way what are these likes? I have a couple from people and don't know what they are. Forgive me for being non forum savvy


Polygraph?


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## carmen ohio

Eleftherios said:


> I may have been betrayed but I'm not blind. I don't get the story either. But in all the investigating I've done his number doesn't show till after the act. There are no emails. I asked again today about the whole story. She told me exactly the same story as on DD. it was shortly after Christmas New Year holiday. She said she had been really depressed about her mothers death, her weight, anxiety over all the empty nest midlife crisis. She had been seeing a therapist. We were not getting along and she felt I didn't want her any longer. She said I can't tell anything about what didn't happen. She said it just started in January and her trying to contact him after wards was because he made her feel good. I'm not rug sweeping the affair. This is so far out of character for my WS. Im seeing a shrink this week for myself. I truly want to be with her but I have trouble believing her story just as you others have. At this point and time when she kisses me says cute things to me I think you do that for him too.im thinking of moving out for awhile. It's easier for me financially and logistically than her.
> I have to say the comment about working on yourself is a very wise one. That's the approach I've been taking. Ive quit smoking it's been almost 30 days. Cold Turkey. Started riding my bike to get the lungs back. Changed my diet. Started research on affairs and that how I found this community. Enough rambling for today. Thanks again for taking time with me.and by the way what are these likes? I have a couple from people and don't know what they are. Forgive me for being non forum savvy


Dear Eleftherios,

You should know that you are handling this horrible situation better than about 90% of the guys who come to TAM/CWI for help.

You should also know that, over time, your feelings about your WW will change, quite likely in the direction of being less interested in R and possibly wanting a divorce. This is especially true the more successful you are at improving yourself and your self-image.

Your WW needs to be aware of this because, when you start to lose interest in her, she may assume that it means the marriage is dead. This isn't necessarily the case because, in some R situations, after the BS goes through the "blah" phase, if the WS continues to do the heavy lifting and doesn't give up, the R is successful.

I would suggest that you consider telling your WW about TAM/CWI and suggesting that she start her own thread. What she learns about herself and how to save her marriage may ultimately benefit you.

Of course, this assumes that you are really intent on R with your WW and that she is truly remorseful and willing to do all the hard work necessary to fix things.

Wishing you the best.


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## workindad

Op best of luck on your journey. Only you can decide the best path forward for yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TOMTEFAR

A like is just someone liking what you wrote. Agreeing with it. It's a pat on the back.


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## Eleftherios

Well the truth shall set you free. She finally cracked. It started last year around september she had sex with him three times twice in hotel once in family car. It all came to light after I called OM on his cell. He didn't answer of course and I left a message that if he didn't call within an hour I was calling his job. I called his job and spoke to person in office. They said he wasn't in and could they help. I said yes this is the girls husband that Joe is f#^*|king. I told him to tell joe to man the f up and answer his phone. I was going to get his side and compare notes. Well I texted STBXW that I had called and talked to him and he told me a completely different story. I didn't really speak to him. She told everything. I didn't believe her story but when investigating the number didn't show till january. Last time they got together. I forgot we changed cell providers prior. That's what threw me off. The divorce is going full steam ahead ow. No looking back. She wants R badly. Was crying and asking for me to try. Negative ghost rider. She said she realizes she truly loves me and wants to be with me. The short texts from him as blowing her off was because he's married with kids and was with her at the time. Guy in office doesn't want to get in the middle and tell OMW. I will try to let her know. The best part is I called OMs cell on way into work and he no longer has a greeting with his name. Did they fire him that fast? Angry guy calling office looking for him jeopardizing safety of other staff? I won't hurt the guy was just gonna talk to him. His Karma was served by me. Feels pretty damn good.

As far as me taking it well I have too. My kids need me. I make myself not let it get me down. I cant sink into depression. I feel very relieved to know the truth now. I'm working nights and she is home packing as I type. Told her the divorce comes first then she needs to fix herself while I fix myself. Then if I can stand the sight of her we'll talk. She wouldn't come on here. She doesn't want to be judged. Then she was telling me I shouldn't listen to what you folks have to say. But every thing I read was right. And I knew she was lying. I'm not stupid. Tough times ahead for me. Losing the thing you love most hurts. But I'm strong and I know I'll make it.


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## warlock07

Wow... I hoped this was an exception this time.. Just be prepared to find out that it was more than 3 times..


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## workindad

warlock07 said:


> Wow... I hoped this was an exception this time.. Just be prepared to find out that it was more than 3 times..


:iagree::iagree:

You may have it all or this may simply be an extension of trickle trothing. It may not matter to you any longer as divorce is your chosen path.

The process of D sucks, no way to sugar coat it. However, if I can find happiness post D, so can you. Focus on the chance to wipe the slate clean and start over minus the cheating, lying, backstabbing spouse.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

warlock07 said:


> Wow... I hoped this was an exception this time.. Just be prepared to find out that it was more than 3 times..


I'm wondering that if after he tells the OM's wife of the affair, will she end up getting him more of the truth?

She may not want to D the OM. As a requirement of that, she may tell the OM that he needs to tell her EVERYTHING. Regardless if he tells her everything, you know that if it he says that they scewed more than 3 times - She's probably going to want the OP to know.

You know, cause more misery for the women that was fvcking her husband.


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## Truthseeker1

Eleftherios said:


> Well the truth shall set you free. She finally cracked. It started last year around september she had sex with him three times twice in hotel once in family car. It all came to light after I called OM on his cell. He didn't answer of course and I left a message that if he didn't call within an hour I was calling his job. I called his job and spoke to person in office. They said he wasn't in and could they help. I said yes this is the girls husband that Joe is f#^*|king. I told him to tell joe to man the f up and answer his phone. I was going to get his side and compare notes. Well I texted STBXW that I had called and talked to him and he told me a completely different story. I didn't really speak to him. She told everything. I didn't believe her story but when investigating the number didn't show till january. Last time they got together. I forgot we changed cell providers prior. That's what threw me off. The divorce is going full steam ahead ow. No looking back. She wants R badly. Was crying and asking for me to try. Negative ghost rider. She said she realizes she truly loves me and wants to be with me. The short texts from him as blowing her off was because he's married with kids and was with her at the time. Guy in office doesn't want to get in the middle and tell OMW. I will try to let her know. The best part is I called OMs cell on way into work and he no longer has a greeting with his name. Did they fire him that fast? Angry guy calling office looking for him jeopardizing safety of other staff? I won't hurt the guy was just gonna talk to him. His Karma was served by me. Feels pretty damn good.
> 
> As far as me taking it well I have too. My kids need me. I make myself not let it get me down. I cant sink into depression. I feel very relieved to know the truth now. I'm working nights and she is home packing as I type. Told her the divorce comes first then she needs to fix herself while I fix myself. Then if I can stand the sight of her we'll talk. She wouldn't come on here. She doesn't want to be judged. Then she was telling me I shouldn't listen to what you folks have to say. But every thing I read was right. And I knew she was lying. I'm not stupid. *Tough times ahead for me. Losing the thing you love most hurts. But I'm strong and I know I'll make it.*


This is the tip of the iceberg....keep moving forward...expose to the OMW

*Remember you are losing an image of what you thought you loved..the reality is now coming to light and it is not the same woman...*


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## Dad&Hubby

Truthseeker1 said:


> This is the tip of the iceberg....keep moving forward...expose to the OMW
> 
> *Remember you are losing an image of what you thought you loved..the reality is now coming to light and it is not the same woman...*


That is the hardest thing for BS's. If BS's could somehow let go of the illusion, D or R would be so much easier. It's the holding onto the illusion where most mistakes happen.


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## Truthseeker1

Dad&Hubby said:


> That is the hardest thing for BS's. If BS's could somehow let go of the illusion, D or R would be so much easier. It's the holding onto the illusion where most mistakes happen.


Once someone cheats they have single handedly killed the old relationship...period..I don't care which excuses they pick off of their laundry list of excuses but they killed it...and they have permanently scarred their SO for life....now tell me whatever perceived problems exist ina reltionship - no partner deserves to be emotionally devastated like that..*this is the thing about infidelity - you devastate another human being for no reason..*


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## Lovemytruck

Truthseeker1 said:


> Once someone cheats they have single handedly killed the old relationship...period..I don't care which excuses they pick off of their laundry list of excuses but they killed it...and they have permanently scarred their SO for life....now tell me whatever perceived problems exist ina reltionship - no partner deserves to be emotionally devastated like that..*this is the thing about infidelity - you devastate another human being for no reason..*


I agree with one small exception. They devastate another for a reason...they want things they can't have. Selfish entitlement. Followed with a victim's cover that they had is so bad.


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## Foghorn

Ele, 

I am sorry to say it but this is the first time it has sounded like your STBXW was "upset". I imagine it looks like true remorse. But what it really is is self-pity. "I can't believe this is happening to me." boo hoo.

I am proud of how strong you are being for your boys. They need you now more than ever. Take care of yourself. In the very long run, they will remember how their dad took care of them, stood up and acted like a man when their family changed so drastically. You all will be ok.

Best,
FH


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## 2yearsago

Dad&Hubby said:


> That is the hardest thing for BS's. If BS's could somehow let go of the illusion, D or R would be so much easier. It's the holding onto the illusion where most mistakes happen.


Truth. It is hard for many of us to let go of the version of our spouse we thought we had. When we get to the point of seeing the reality of what is right in front of our eyes things become much more clear.

Sorry for your situation. You are handling it great.


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## RWB

Eleftherios said:


> Well the truth shall set you free. She finally cracked. It started last year around september she had sex with him three times twice in hotel once in family car. It all came to light after I called OM on his cell.


Eleft,

It's a script that cheaters rehearse. My own wife TT the same lies for a while before finally cracking. We told you. You wanted to believe the best... when cheating is involved... it's always the worst. 

*Now here's the worst. SHE IS STILL LYING!*


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## Eleftherios

Wether it's the truth or not at least she offered up more info. If they did it 3 times or 3000 the damage is done end of story. I'll just accept her story and move on with my life. Trust me I have no burden to bear. She has to look at herself everyday and know what she did. As far as the mind movies go I googled how to stop thinking about things and use those tools that I've gathered to help me. Ironically when we were together yesterday we talked about some of the things and supposed reasons and I asked why did you not just leave us and go be with Joe. I didn't want to throw my life away. Guess what you did. She has a lot of healing to do on her own. I can no longer help her. I will give her support in any way I can. She will be a part of the boys and my life forever. I can be poisoning my children's minds and turning them against her even more and push her over the edge. She is scared remorseful ashamed all the fun things that go with infidelity. Noticed my 15 year old slipping into hate mom mode and had a talk again. Told him I understand you don't like mom much right now and thats ok. But being mean when she is having a conversation with you is unacceptable. Man o man this is gonna be rough. Thanks for lending an ear or shall I say an eye. Helps to get this out.


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## RAN

Eleftherios said:


> Wether it's the truth or not at least she offered up more info. If they did it 3 times or 3000 the damage is done end of story. I'll just accept her story and move on with my life. Trust me I have no burden to bear. She has to look at herself everyday and know what she did. As far as the mind movies go I googled how to stop thinking about things and use those tools that I've gathered to help me. Ironically when we were together yesterday we talked about some of the things and supposed reasons and I asked why did you not just leave us and go be with Joe. I didn't want to throw my life away. Guess what you did. She has a lot of healing to do on her own. I can no longer help her. I will give her support in any way I can. She will be a part of the boys and my life forever. I can be poisoning my children's minds and turning them against her even more and push her over the edge. She is scared remorseful ashamed all the fun things that go with infidelity. Noticed my 15 year old slipping into hate mom mode and had a talk again. Told him I understand you don't like mom much right now and thats ok. But being mean when she is having a conversation with you is unacceptable. Man o man this is gonna be rough. Thanks for lending an ear or shall I say an eye. Helps to get this out.


Can you take your boys to counseling, instead of you speaking the counselor will do it. Wouldn't it be a different approach try.


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## Wazza

Eleftherios said:


> Wether it's the truth or not at least she offered up more info. If they did it 3 times or 3000 the damage is done end of story. I'll just accept her story and move on with my life. Trust me I have no burden to bear. She has to look at herself everyday and know what she did. As far as the mind movies go I googled how to stop thinking about things and use those tools that I've gathered to help me. Ironically when we were together yesterday we talked about some of the things and supposed reasons and I asked why did you not just leave us and go be with Joe. I didn't want to throw my life away. Guess what you did. She has a lot of healing to do on her own. I can no longer help her. I will give her support in any way I can. She will be a part of the boys and my life forever. I can be poisoning my children's minds and turning them against her even more and push her over the edge. She is scared remorseful ashamed all the fun things that go with infidelity. Noticed my 15 year old slipping into hate mom mode and had a talk again. Told him I understand you don't like mom much right now and thats ok. But being mean when she is having a conversation with you is unacceptable. Man o man this is gonna be rough. Thanks for lending an ear or shall I say an eye. Helps to get this out.


You are handling it well. I have no doubt about the turmoil in your mind but to reach the level of judgement you have so quickly is outstanding. Well done.

Continue to be strong, for your kids and for yourself.


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## Eleftherios

Thanks for the support. I'm making progress so quickly because I have no choice. I don't have the luxury to be a wreck. My job is dangerous, I erect scaffold in steel mills,refinerys food plants ect. I also own and run a garage door company and my kids need a role model. I have to keep myself focused. Plus Ive been cheated on in the past while in a LTR. So that helps in a twisted kind of way. The boys don't want to go to a shrink yet. I can't force them to go. I wish they would. Shes moving out Saturday. That is going to be huge. Been hyping myself up. I truly love and am in love with her. I allow myself to cry when alone. Man does that feel good. And I came to the conclusion that I'm not cheating myself. Life is to short to waste on what she did. Thanks again.


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## tom67

Eleftherios said:


> Thanks for the support. I'm making progress so quickly because I have no choice. I don't have the luxury to be a wreck. My job is dangerous, I erect scaffold in steel mills,refinerys food plants ect. I also own and run a garage door company and my kids need a role model. I have to keep myself focused. Plus Ive been cheated on in the past while in a LTR. So that helps in a twisted kind of way. The boys don't want to go to a shrink yet. I can't force them to go. I wish they would. Shes moving out Saturday. That is going to be huge. Been hyping myself up. I truly love and am in love with her. I allow myself to cry when alone. Man does that feel good. And I came to the conclusion that I'm not cheating myself. Life is to short to waste on what she did. Thanks again.


You will do just fine with that mindset.


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## Shaggy

Make finding the OMW a priority, she deserves to know her husband is screwing around on her.


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## Dyokemm

I agree Shaggy.

Plus s**tbag deserves to learn a life lesson to not f with other people's lives. 

Having his own blown up in return my be just the medicine he needs to teach him that.


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## Refuse to be played

Try not to force your kids to interact with their mom if they don't want to yet. Remember they've been betrayed too. I know I absolutely HATED when my mom forced me to spend time with my cheating dad after their divorce. In the end though I haven't spoken to my dad since I was 12. I'm 27 now. Consequences of his actions and I don't regret it one bit. IMO just like when a BS finds the WS actions to be too much teenaged kids can too. At least thats how I felt when I was the kid in this kind of situation.


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## Dyokemm

Yep,

Don't force them. They will have to decide for themselves what they want their relationship with their mother to be like when they are ready.

And she will have to live with and accept the consequences.

My dad never forgave his mom for running off with a POS when he and his two brothers were little boys.

She desperately wanted him to, even on her deathbed she reached out. But my dad just told her to focus on herself since she had a short time left.

I'm sure it hurt her like h**l, but oh well, she made her choices and had to live with the consequences.


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## Eleftherios

The only thing I make my sons do is be civil. I told them numerous times they can dislike her all they want. When sheiks around or talking to them they need to respond. Dirty looks and attitude get you no where. As far as I'm concerned when she asks what they want to eat for dinner and they are being beatoffs they can starve. That's the type of things I make them be civil about. I'm not forcing the relation ship. That's on them. I've told them that numerous times. Refused to be played I'm sorry that you didn't have quality time with your pops. Even though they have done what they've done they are your mom or dad whichever fits your scenario. And some are just s#%tbags. As far as his life the sh*t storm has begun.


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## Dyokemm

"As far as his life the sh*t storm has begun."

Excellent. Considering the damage he has done to your family, especially your boys, this is perfect justice.


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## Eleftherios

What gets me the most is how much of a coward Joe is. I can't reach through the phone. Ive already started throwing his ass under the bus. As far as the OMW I just have to mail the letter. That my friends is throwing him under the back wheels


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## tom67

Eleftherios said:


> What gets me the most is how much of a coward Joe is. I can't reach through the phone. Ive already started throwing his ass under the bus. As far as the OMW I just have to mail the letter. That my friends is throwing him under the back wheels


Ha you can run but you can't hide.:lol:


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## MattMatt

Eleftherios said:


> Wether it's the truth or not at least she offered up more info. If they did it 3 times or 3000 the damage is done end of story. I'll just accept her story and move on with my life. Trust me I have no burden to bear. She has to look at herself everyday and know what she did. As far as the mind movies go I googled how to stop thinking about things and use those tools that I've gathered to help me. Ironically when we were together yesterday we talked about some of the things and supposed reasons and I asked why did you not just leave us and go be with Joe. I didn't want to throw my life away. Guess what you did. She has a lot of healing to do on her own. I can no longer help her. I will give her support in any way I can. She will be a part of the boys and my life forever. I can be poisoning my children's minds and turning them against her even more and push her over the edge. She is scared remorseful ashamed all the fun things that go with infidelity. Noticed my 15 year old slipping into hate mom mode and had a talk again. Told him I understand you don't like mom much right now and thats ok. But being mean when she is having a conversation with you is unacceptable. Man o man this is gonna be rough. Thanks for lending an ear or shall I say an eye. Helps to get this out.


Why is your son being mean to his mother? *Because she cheated on him, just as much as she cheated on you.*

It'll take ages for him to forgive her for that. If he ever does...


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## Truthseeker1

MattMatt said:


> Why is your son being mean to his mother? *Because she cheated on him, just as much as she cheated on you.*
> 
> It'll take ages for him to forgive her for that. If he ever does...


:iagree: And they never fully get over it...it is always there like a shadow lurking in the background..the messed up part is the kids spend a lifetime paying for the sins of the cheating parent...cheaters are unfair to their spouse, their kids, everyone....it boggles the mind...they place a burden on them so they can have some stolen moments of pleasure....


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## Wazza

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: And they never fully get over it...it is always there like a shadow lurking in the background..the messed up part is the kids spend a lifetime paying for the sins of the cheating parent...cheaters are unfair to their spouse, their kids, everyone....it boggles the mind...they place a burden on them so they can have some stolen moments of pleasure....


Well, yes, but I have to add...the focus around here on "expose expose" also does that.

Sometimes exposure is necessary to stop an affair, and sometimes it is just about spreading the pain.

My kids do not know about Mrs Wazza's affair and I imagine they never will. For precisely this reason.


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## Eleftherios

I'm not trying to make them love her. Fractured forever is the relationship between mother and sons. I'm trying to teach them to be a better person. She knows what she has done to her family. How much punishment is enough? A lifetime of detachment is a rough sentence. They will have to interact with her for the rest of there lives. Like it or not. And I don't want it to be on her death bed that they realized harbouring the hatred only makes you bitter and they could have had some type of relationship. I'm a product of divorce and not having a mom because my father was pissed at her efing sucked. I can get over things some can't and I'm cool with that. But you don't have to be a douche bag because you can't.


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## Refuse to be played

Wazza said:


> Well, yes, but I have to add...the focus around here on "expose expose" also does that.
> 
> Sometimes exposure is necessary to stop an affair, and sometimes it is just about spreading the pain.
> 
> My kids do not know about Mrs Wazza's affair and I imagine they never will. For precisely this reason.


IMO little kids probably should be left out of the loop but chances are they'll find out anyway once they're older. My little sister was too young to remember the A and D but when she was older (12-13) she found out from a comment made by a cousin.

Older kids you might as well tell them. Hell they might figure it out on their own after a Dday. And chances are that if the kid is in their teens, the WS probably lied to them at some point as well. I know my dad. Not only that, I was used and unknowingly help my him with his A.


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## Truthseeker1

Eleftherios said:


> I'm not trying to make them love her. Fractured forever is the relationship between mother and sons. I'm trying to teach them to be a better person. She knows what she has done to her family. How much punishment is enough? A lifetime of detachment is a rough sentence. They will have to interact with her for the rest of there lives. Like it or not. And I don't want it to be on her death bed that they realized harbouring the hatred only makes you bitter and they could have had some type of relationship. I'm a product of divorce and not having a mom because my father was pissed at her efing sucked. I can get over things some can't and I'm cool with that. But you don't have to be a douche bag because you can't.


Your wife has a lot of hard work ahead of her..she made this mess..she better work to clean it up....


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## Eleftherios

She is working at it very hard. She is focused on salvaging what ever she can. Yes she knows what she has done and IS remorseful about it. It hurts me more that they have lost so much. If I could take it away I could but it is what it is.


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## Truthseeker1

Eleftherios said:


> She is working at it very hard. She is focused on salvaging what ever she can. Yes she knows what she has done and IS remorseful about it. It hurts me more that they have lost so much. If I could take it away I could but it is what it is.


The thing is she took it away from them for a few moments of stolen pleasure....


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## tom67

Eleftherios said:


> She is working at it very hard. She is focused on salvaging what ever she can. Yes she knows what she has done and IS remorseful about it. It hurts me more that they have lost so much. If I could take it away I could but it is what it is.


It's her sh!t to fix. Sounds like you are doing the best you can.


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## tom67

Be there for your boys don't blast her but tell the truth age appropiate of course. Do not lie.


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## Eleftherios

I do tell them the truth. With the advent of the Internet age appropriate went out the window. You can't control every aspect but offer good sound advice. I have remained calm aside from the outburst on DDay. I know I've said this a few times but I'm grateful for all the positive advice and insight I have received from my fellow deceived. I'm outta here till tomorrow.


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## jnj express

As far as going after her lover---don't waste your time-----he is scum, you know it---even he knows it-----DO TELL HIS WIFE, she is entitled to know the scum she lives with

There is one person, and one person only responsible for you being here and having to correspond with us----

She took vows with you, she spit on those vows, just as she spit on her ring/kids/you/mge----and basically all because she got bored with the mge, it became same old---her justifications, they were there cuz she wanted some excitement---she wanted a foreign tingle

Her justifications, were just that, nothing more than excuses, for wanting some foreign spice------2 yrs after her mothers death, and then she cheats---why not right after the death---weight gain---why didn't she go to a gym/exercise/make her family help her deal with weight gain/diet----there are so many ways she could have dealt with weight gain---spreading her legs for another man is not one of them

self esteem----she had a good job, was appreciated by her co-workers---her boys loved her, I am sure you loved her---she wasn't facing an empty nest for at least 3 yrs, and maybe longer----her excuses were just that nothing more than excuses to demonize YOU, and justify her lover as he conned her into sex

IN THIS DAY AND AGE---WITH ALL THE MOVIES/SONGS/TV/BOOKS/STORIES ----one hears in re: cheating, and full well knowing the consequences of that cheating---she knew what she was doing every step of the way----as she lied, coerced, manipulated, planned her trysts----------do not feel sad/sorry for her---she knew what she was all about---and gladly/happily/willingly brought nuclear winter down upon her family----she now gets to live with the destruction she has wrought

Her biggest problem will hit her in about 10 to 12 years----you see there really are no more YOU's out there---she had many, many wonderful years with you and her sons---she threw it away, for some sweet talk, and sex---and what will hit her, in the not to distant future is LONELINESS

That may well be her biggest hurt---if her sons, don't want her, and you move on----she will spend years by herself---she very well may never find anyone in her life that is the equal of you----you took care of her thru thick and thin---you won't be there--

-at her age, she very possibly is not going to replace you, with anyone worthy of taking care of her, as you her H did---and the loneliness will descend---and I don't think there really is anything worse than loneliness, especially when one gets on in years---SHE WILL REGRET WHAT SHE HAS DONE, THE REST OF HER LIFE---but alas---she has no one to blame but herself---twas her who made her bed, now she gets to sleep in it.


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## Eleftherios

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relationships-addiction/82514-need-help-marriage-drugs-infidelity.html

Had the wife take a look at TAM so she can find her way. That thread is dead on as to what went on in our life in the early years. I'm not justifying any of the affair. Trying to give a little more back story into our situation. She wants to R. And after talking with her I'm feeling love from her like never before. I truly don't want a divorce. She has been my world for so long. She saved me from a life that would have either killed me or end up in prison. So torn as what to do. I can live without her that's not a fear. I don't need her this I know. I am capable of forgiving. The scars will be there. Feeling confused. My mind tells me no my heart tells me yes. As far as he goes I'm not going to waste time on him any longer. Made my decision on that last night. I start thinking about him I feel the rage and anger consuming me like a forest fire. I would prolly end him if I saw him. His wife will know what a scum bag he is. Once again thanks for listening. 

PS
She really likes the site. Has given her a place to go for insight and answers besides the arms of another man.


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## Chaparral

You need to expose the OM before you make any attempt any reconciliation.


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## Chaparral

Here is a list(print it off) you may want to go over with your wife. If you go over it together, you have a good chance of seeing how serious she is about reconciling. Good luck and prayers for your family whatever you decide.



_Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always._


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## weightlifter

Elef.

How goes your head today? BTW the decision to R or D is not necessarily one you need to make in 5 days. I would certainly have my D ducks in a row in case you need them.

A piece of advice. Many betrayed try to combine two questions into one. The two questions are:
1) Is the wayward doing enough to warrant R?
2) Is the betrayed even capable of R knowing another man has been inside her?

you need TWO yes answers not one!

Since she is here (something that I do not recommend but she IS here so water under the bridge)...

So have her read the below. IMHO one of the finest write ups of the pain a member here has ever written. I actually have saved several quotes from this poster, Doubletrouble, he is quite a wordsmith! This was written to one of those how do I get my betrayed husband to forgive me posts.

I can tell you a few things about that from a male BS standpoint. 

Echoing what wl just said, you cannot say you're sorry often enough. Keep saying it. AND follow up with real change, real actions. 

The mind movies of her being with another man are something that runs through my head EVERY DAY. Every day when I see the same model car, hear his name randomly on the radio or during my business day, and other triggers I won't go into for various reasons... they all put my mind back in that bed, with her naked and wet, him naked and hard, taking what was supposed to be mine. She gave it willingly, thoroughly, completely, and then wrote to him what it was like to be in such a realtionship where she loved him so much. 

At that point with her I had NOTHING of what I thought I did. I was oblivious at the time, and she never told me. I had to find out. They did it in OUR bed, and since I was traveling at the time, I arrived the next day. His sperm wasn't even dead inside her before she accepted mine as well. That bites, in ways I can't even describe. It's the biggest betrayal, the biggest hit on my manhood and sexuality, as a provider and ALL the roles I take on as head of the family. That guy came in and stole it all... no, she gave it all to him in those moments. 

And it's not just the moments of sex, which are bad enough. To know what was being said between the two of them, and knowing he was married anyway, so just grabbing a free piece of ass at MY expense -- it's utter destruction of my heart. 

I could write on and on, because it goes on and on, but maybe that can give you a flavor of what you've done to your husband in those moments of gonad-driven stupidity and utter irresponsibility. You should be ashamed, you should be contrite, you should apologize over and over, and you must do all the heavy lifting because it was your CHOICE to spread 'em for some strange. 

And I tell her: I hope it was worth it. 

BTW. He is also seeking R!

This was written in response to a post I made:
Do you realize just what it does to a man to know what knowing your wife had ANOTHER MAN INSIDE HER does to him? We men are primitive territorial animals. Your vagina is yours meaning ownership, but for most men, once we agree to exclusivity you have signed an EXCLUSIVE lease and upon marriage that lease is lifetime. You let another man violate his territory.

You shred his heart. Yes men do love.
You shred his ego. He wonders why he wasnt good enough
You shred his trust. Most men want at least one part of their lives to be "safe" Safe is not exact but it is the best I can do ATM. YOU ATTACKED HIM FROM INSIDE his emotional defenses. You hit him from within, he had no defense. Men are raised to be providers. This means we go out and fight the world to provide for our families. We want one damn place in our lives we dont have to worry about.


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## bfree

Elef,

Earlier in the thread you said you didn't care if they were together 3 times or 3000. And this might be true. See most of the time when we talk about trickle truth we do so in the context of the betrayed spouse needing all the info in order to reconcile. And while this is true many times we forget the other half of the equation. If you are entertaining the thought of reconciling with your wife I advise you to make sure you have the complete and total truth, not because it will change your mind whether to reconcile or not but because if your wife doesn't come completely clean you have no chance for a successful reconciliation. If she is keeping secrets she cannot completely open up to you, your counselor or anyone else. Therefore issues that might impede or even derail reconciliation will either not be brought up or be put on the back burner. If she is afraid of you finding out something she didn't tell you she will be distracted and will not be able to fully embrace the R process. If she is hiding issues then other related issues that she might have had that caused your marriage to weaken or collapse will not be fully discussed and years down the road will come back up to the forefront potentially weakening or destroying your marriage after you both worked very hard to rebuild it.

I urge you before you decide on reconciliation to speak to your wife and make sure you have the complete truth. Otherwise you are just wasting your time.


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## Eleftherios

What up my peeps . As far as knowing everything i feel she has told it all to me. After the first stumbling block I told her I need all truth from here on out. She laid it on the table. She is very guilty sad and remorseful for what she has done. As far as my mind it's a tormented sea of love hate anger revenge sadness etc. she doesn't want to move out. She said she's staying here to fight for her boys back. Meaning me also not just the kids. I'm moving in with my sister in a few days. I need minimal contact with her right now. It's just easier for me logistically and financially to do this and if I don't see or talk to her Im hoping it will enable me to see a clearer picture. The hyper bonding is over and intimacy is hard. Feels dirty and disgusting. Then for her to lay in my arms and know she did those things with him also. EEEWWW. As far as her reading this I don't give a rats a$$. She needs to feel the stinging truth as to what she's done and what's about to happen. She had no regards to my feelings for a year. As far as the OM and OMW screw them. They no longer will ruin my life. What goes around comes around. I look at her and know I love her and am in love with her but I feel empty towards her. Cried really hard yesterday. Felt good. Thanks again everyone.


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## LostViking

Say the OM breaks up with his wife and tries to rekindle with yours? How will you prevent that if your are not living with her? Has she sworn off of him, or will she fold like a cheap tent if he asks her to get back together with him? 
How do you know you won't come to the house one day and find his car in the driveway, your clothes and belongings on the porch, and all the locks changed? It has happened to some BSs here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lovemytruck

Eleftherios,

These feelings are normal. I felt the same way for some time after the d-days.

Glad you are posting evey once in a while. It is good to see you are aware what is going on in your head. Self-awareness will help you heal.

Space is a good thing for healing. It may make it more easier for her to contact to OM, but you are right to say screw them. You are doing what many call the "180". It is a good thing to allow yourself to withdraw from her drama.

Leaving her in the house might make it harder to get a fair shake in a D. I was like you, and left because at a certain point you just don't care. Space is more important than stuff.

Sorry about your sons. Watch for signs that she might be trying to poison them. My exWW did that with my then 18 y.o. son that was living with her. It is worse than the cheating in my opinion.

I don't know what else to say, except that you will be ok. Move ahead and your heart will mend, but it will take lots of time.


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## Lovemytruck

LostViking said:


> Say the OM breaks up with his wife and tries to rekindle with yours? How will you prevent that if your are not living with her? Has she sworn off of him, or will she fold like a cheap tent if he asks her to get back together with him?
> How do you know you won't come to the house one day and find his car in the driveway, your clothes and belongings on the porch, and all the locks changed? It has happened to some BSs here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Happened here except no car in the driveway.

I am making the assumption that you are looking to a D. Get the attorney figured out.


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## Eleftherios

She wants nothing to do with him. She wants to focus all her energy on us. We have had some really good days together but I just need a break. I'm so confused as to what is up or down right now that I need to hit the pause button. I want to make it work but I have a bunch of doubt and being vulnerable to her right now isn't an option. Besides she has to want this. And she has been showing that to me.


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## Lovemytruck

One more thought...

The WW is a lost cause. Hopefully you are to a place where you are realizing that she is not what you want anymore.

The love you feel is because you are a compassionate person. It is ok to feel some love and still go to a D.

You will also find that there are other women much more worthy of your love. Spend your time thinking about the value of a good woman v. your wife.

Bless your soul. These things are tough.


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## Lovemytruck

By all means take your time. Hope it doesn't sound like me or any of us are pushing you too much. It is YOUR choice.


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## aug

Eleftherios said:


> What up my peeps . As far as knowing everything i feel she has told it all to me. After the first stumbling block I told her I need all truth from here on out. She laid it on the table. She is very guilty sad and remorseful for what she has done. As far as my mind it's a tormented sea of love hate anger revenge sadness etc. she doesn't want to move out. She said she's staying here to fight for her boys back. Meaning me also not just the kids. I'm moving in with my sister in a few days. *I need minimal contact with her right now.* It's just easier for me logistically and financially to do this and if I don't see or talk to her Im hoping it will enable me to see a clearer picture. The hyper bonding is over and intimacy is hard. *Feels dirty and disgusting.* Then for her to lay in my arms and know she did those things with him also. EEEWWW. As far as her reading this I don't give a rats a$$. She needs to feel the stinging truth as to what she's done and what's about to happen. *She had no regards to my feelings for a year.* As far as the OM and OMW screw them. They no longer will ruin my life. What goes around comes around. I look at her and know I love her and am in love with her but *I feel empty towards her*. Cried really hard yesterday. Felt good. Thanks again everyone.



You're becoming detached. As you continue on in this process, the detachment will allow you to decide clearer.

It's what it is. She did make the choice to cheat along and thereby accepted the consequences.


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## Lovemytruck

Eleftherios said:


> She wants nothing to do with him. She wants to focus all her energy on us. We have had some really good days together but I just need a break. I'm so confused as to what is up or down right now that I need to hit the pause button. I want to make it work but I have a bunch of doubt and being vulnerable to her right now isn't an option. Besides *she has to want this*. And *she has been showing that to me.*


Your timeframe (d-day June 29th?) is kind of short. It is a little different how fast we progress through it. It sounds like you are in the peak of the rollercoaster season.

I would say that the feeling of not wanting your wife physically after hysterical bonding is a more advanced point. Wanting seperation is usually a later stage thing too.

Actually wanting a D is something that looms. You are still hoping that she wants the wants the M. She probably does.

Often you get to a point that your wants are reversed. You get to that point where you don't want her.


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## Eleftherios

I take everyone's thoughts that they give and process them. It's my decision to make in the end. Shes willing to take whatever outcome happens. She said she sees everything clearly and with me and the boys is where she wants to be. I'm just exhausted with the whole ordeal. Wish there was a answer.


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## Eleftherios

Well she read the post. She feels that everyone thinks she's a bad mom. She wasn't a bad mother. She took care of the boys. I asked her to post but she said no. She gets enough stone throwing from reading what's been said. She had contact with him a week or so back at work. She panicked and left work. She told me she has been living a fairy tale the past couple months thinking everything would be fine and when I told her I was thinking of leaving she realized how bad this is. She had been seeing him every six weeks or so. Just so happens the months she had her liaisons were one of my kids birth month thanksgiving my birth month and had I not found out it would have been in my other sons birth month the next rendevous. If the cycle plays out he'll be in her office in a week or so. Talk about some f'd up stuff. I get trigger moments on what is supposed to be happy times. Not for me I get to feel like crap and she gets to walk around as if nothing happened. I wishi could inject my feelings, thoughts, and the mind movies in her. As far as the guy being in my driveway it would just solidify my walking away and not turning back. We have a lot invested in this. I'm hoping I can get past this and have a new life with her. Still pulling myself together. The next couple weeks will be crucial for how I approach this. I just have to roll the dice.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Just remember Eleftherios, you still have feelings, are pinning and what ever else, for the woman that you cheating wife USE TO BE.

That woman is LONG GONE. She may never cheat on you(if you stay), or anyone else, but she's a different person now. She will always be a different person.

As far as her reading this thread, I have mixed feelings about that. Though your head says D, your heart sill has fleeting images of R.

She says that she is done with the OM and she may actually believe that. But she once also believed that she would never cheat on you...

Now if you were to post here say, that you thought she might be in contact with the OM and tell us how you had come to that conclusion - You'll also be telling her...

And so on.


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## Eleftherios

Hi everyone it's been a crazy couple days for me. Friday started out good and ended badly. I lost my composure and went off on the wife. I felt badly for the things I said because that isn't the person I am. As far as her not being the same person the same can be said for me. We're taking it one day at a time and it isn't easy. I decided to stay at home and not move out. as far as her and the OM she will have contact with him periodically at her work place. He lives in another state than us. I don't like it but as I said before she has a very good job and will need it if we don't work things out. The weird thing is I woke this morning not feeling anxious as I usually do. She tells me she feels disgusted and sickened by what she has done. And I believe her. My family doesn't know of the affair just that we aren't getting along. I don't want to say anything to them for the fact that I don't need anymore negative in my life right now. As far as counseling we haven't went. The irony of it all is that we get along and talk to each other better than ever. The visions I think cause the most hurt. She said she wishes she could take all the pain away. She said she can't stand that's she hurts me so daily. At my sisters Friday she was sitting on the couch and I came and laid my head on her lap and she was rubbing my head and one of my sisters walked into the room and said that's true love. I asked her why she said that and she said because of the way she was looking at me as she rubbed my head. My eyes were closed the entire time. Does that mean anything? Still confused but taking it one day at a time. Hope everyone is having a good day today. I am and I'm putting my good karma out to all of my fellow BS. See ya.


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## the guy

Its been 3yrs since d day and the R is going great, Mrs. the-guy is 110% into the marriage.

With that said there will be a time when your wife needs to address her own issues and face the reason she felt that her betrayal was worth a need she had to feel wanted....

In short now is the time for your wife to looking to affair proofing the marriage and learn the tools to prevent this from ever happening again.


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## LostViking

Your wife needs intensive counseling to get to the root of her boundary issues. Don't think hiding this from the world and working on it between yourselves is going to be enough to keep her from straying in the future. She owes it to you to take the steps she needs to to fix herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eleftherios

I'm not hiding from the world. I don't need my 8 sisters up my a$$.A select few now of the affair. A couple are family members. As far as her getting IC I can't force her and only she knows when she's ready to go. If she strays again there wil be no third chance. This is actually a end all type of thing for me. But talking to an old friend about he gave me some really good advice. You can forgive but you will never forget. You need to at least try and work it out. Life is too short to be angry and second guess yourself. He told me to stop thinking revenge on the OM. It will only breed anger and contempt for your wife. My being a drug addict wasn't easy for her and this won't be easy for you. Love in the end will be what comes out of it. This coming from a two time convicted murderer. Yea I hung with some bad people back in the day and I'm not proud of it but it is what it is. 22 years behind bars gives you a lot of time to think and analyze. In all honesty he is prolly one of the wisest persons I've talked to about this whole mess. I feel like a lot of anger left my soul last night while sleeping. It had physical traits to it. My body would get burning hot and the wife laid next to me comforting me while it was happening. And as I said before I awoke feeling very good about myself and my wife. I owe it to myself to try and be happy with the new situation. It will never be the same. But will it be better than before? I'm feeling better she feels better. Thanks again for helping me on this journey.


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## Chaparral

Have you had any contact with the omw? You need eyes and ears at the other end. Om needs to be busy mending his own fences.

He will try and contact your wife again.


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## arbitrator

*MC ASAP! No contact with OM. She needs to surrender passwords to email, FB, cell phone, you name it!

And if she fails to comply with any aspect of that most reasonable request, then it would be high time to have her hoofing the concrete!*


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## Eleftherios

I have access to all facets. Contact with OM is inevitable as I said before. As far as him contacting her i can't stop that NC letter or not. OMW and further cantact I'm not concerned about. They can rot in hell. If I run across him yes he gets a beat down I'm not gonna seak him out. She knows where I stand on all matters. As far as MC in due time. Still early on in my decision process. Why waste money if I ultimately decide to D. Right now I want to be here with her. It isn't easy and every day is a new day. She's out shopping right now is she really meeting him who knows the GPS on her phone will tell me where she is and has been. If she continues to put her husband and family in a box and go play with him that's her call. It will only seal the fact that me and the boys will disown her. Having to go the rest of your life without your kids would have to be harder than losing a spouse. And trust me they wouldn't want anything to do with her. They haven't forgiven her yet and they have to decide when that day will be not me not a shrink not random people on a message board. And the way I look at it everyone of us have different perspectives and I respect that. Your WWS and situation are unique as are mine. I'm choosing not to let my emotions make a decision for me. I control me. She doesn't control anything but herself. Her actions may push me away if she chooses him but that's her decision. I have a clear conscious I know I didn't stray and I know the person I am. She can either make the effort or hit the bricks. If she leaves she leaves. I really don't think it would hurt after all this drama. On that note I'm gonna get on my motorcycle and take me a nice ride on this beautiful day. Wishing the best to all hope your day is as good or better because I am having a great day.


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## Eleftherios

Hi everyone. It's another beautiful day. Weather is great my feelings are semi in check. Not feeling bitter and angry in the least bit. Still my love for her grows I know some will think rug sweep yadayadayada but it isn't. We are both fully cognizant of what happened. We have decided to try for R. Letting go of the bullshizzle. No more time for that. Just made it worse when I clung to it. Will I crash and fall back into it with triggers I'm sure but I won't allow myself to dwell there. As far as the negative Nancy's with there once a cheat attitude not all who cheat are bad eggs. This will hopefully be my last post on this thread. Aside from replys to questions asked or words of support. You'll find me on reconciliation side. Putting out my good Karma Zen energy vibes what ever you want to call it. Hope you find peace in yourself so you can carry on. Thanks to all.


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## RWB

E,

You can only control you. My IC/MC told me that I can not make her happy... it is only something that she can decide. I'm 4+ years into R with my wife who serial cheated for years before I finally caught her. My IC basically laid it out on the line for me. She said it was up to my wife to decide whether she wanted to reclaim her marriage. Her remorse, her guilt, her commitment. After 30+ years of marriage, I am who I am. 

I did the NC letter, email snooping, GPS... all the J. Bond stuff you could think of. In the end, it was all up to her. She knows that one email, one text, one phone call, and I will never look back. Short leash? Yeah, but that's the only way after what I have been through. 

I can tell you have reached the point... It's her decision now. It's no longer emotional. I have done that. I will never go there again. I think all BS who chose to R get to that realization somewhere down the line. 

Good Luck, E.


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## Eleftherios

RWB,

Thanks for your words of encouragement. I know it's going to be a rocky road but I'm willing to put in the effort and she is fully on board. I couldn't have come to this conclusion without fully feeling that. I think that just walking away would not have been the answer. I know now that it takes more of me being there for her than I was putting in. To the naysayers I'm not condoning what she did nor am I taking the blame like a ****. Short leash for sure and she understands that. Checking in and getting checked is part of the program from here on. Trust has to be earned. I'm telling you people that if you can find a way to let the negative go it has such a calming effect. Some may think I'm making advances too quickly but I don't procrastinate. I know the ball is in her court to make this work. I'm just enjoying the rediscovery of US. The fog has lifted and we are making the changes needed in both of us to make this work. It hasn't been easy. Trust me I've almost walked several times before releasing the anger and bitterness. Thanks again everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

Hang in there man.


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## Eleftherios

Acabado thank you my friend. Hope all is well with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

Eleftherios said:


> RWB,
> 
> Thanks for your words of encouragement. I know it's going to be a rocky road but I'm willing to put in the effort and she is fully on board. I couldn't have come to this conclusion without fully feeling that. I think that just walking away would not have been the answer. I know now that it takes more of me being there for her than I was putting in. To the naysayers I'm not condoning what she did nor am I taking the blame like a ****. Short leash for sure and she understands that. Checking in and getting checked is part of the program from here on. Trust has to be earned. I'm telling you people that if you can find a way to let the negative go it has such a calming effect. Some may think I'm making advances too quickly but I don't procrastinate. I know the ball is in her court to make this work. I'm just enjoying the rediscovery of US. The fog has lifted and we are making the changes needed in both of us to make this work. It hasn't been easy. Trust me I've almost walked several times before releasing the anger and bitterness. Thanks again everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do things on your timetable. Educate yourself on the emotional roller coaster and the process of reconciliation and forgiveness. Knowing what is to come is going to be your best friend. There is no perfect blueprint and every case is different. But most of all, take this opportunity to fine tune your marriage and make improved communication and better emotional connection first and foremost. And always remember that actions matter both from you and her. So be a doer and encourage her to be action oriented as well.

Good luck my friend.


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## RWB

Eleftherios said:


> I think that just walking away would not have been the answer. I know now that it takes more of me being there for her than I was putting in. *To the naysayers I'm not condoning what she did nor am I taking the blame like a ****. Short leash for sure and she understands that. Checking in and getting checked is part of the program from here on.* Trust has to be earned. I'm telling you people that if you can find a way to let the negative go it has such a calming effect. Some may think I'm making advances too quickly but I don't procrastinate.


E,

I know exactly how you feel...

At DD, all I knew it was a short 3 week PA with an old college BF. I freaked out an moved her out of our house to a mutual friends place. Over the next few days, I discovered that my wife of 30 years had been cheating for 6+ years with 3 OM. I knew them all. My grown children, my brother, just about everyone that knew wanted me to kick her to the curb. It was worse than I ever could of imagined. 

She was broken. I had know idea who this woman was anymore. Over the next few weeks, months, years... I took a chance. Years of MC, tons of remorse, I stayed. No one agreed. I didn't care what they thought. In the end, it was just plain mercy. I know some in my family still just think I'm crazy. 

The Point... I think you have realized, it is your choice and no on else's. Let her actions not just words be your guide. 

God Bless your choice.


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## Eleftherios

bfree,
Thanks. We are both doers. She as well as I have been putting in work. We know the journey maybe hard but what's at the end if all goes well is worth all the struggle. Wishing everyone the best.

rwb,

Glad it has worked out for you. I'm sure it wasn't and might still be at times easy. But like you I don't care about others negative opinions. I understand that not everyone can handle it. But I love my wife.


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## bandit.45

If it works, keep working it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

JCD,

I'm sorry you had to go through that.

But you had to do what was right for you. It doesn't matter if others understand your reasons why.

I can understand your relatives perplexity, however.

My maternal grandfather not only stayed with my serial cheating grandmother, but also raised her child from the affairs.

I still cannot understand at all how he could have made this decision.

At least you seemed to have repaired your M and I am happy to hear that for your sake.

My grandparents had an often bitter and angry M for the rest of their lives until my grandmother passed. 

That just makes me more dumbfounded, but I accept it was his choice to make.


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## alte Dame

I just wanted to say a few things:

- I don't believe in the classic reasons for a mid-life crisis, i.e., I don't believe that it's necessarily an age thing. I think it has to do with experiencing life crises that make us face our mortality and bring on despair and hopelessness.

For many women, having a mother die is one of the very worst, most jarring life events to occur. I can thus well imagine that your WW is indeed in a mid-life crisis.

So, she needs IC to let go of the oceans of tears that she has inside her, not just for her mother, but for what she has done to her life, to her boys and to you.

- You talk as if contact with the OM is inevitable because of work, but NC should be a priority. You can at least try to establish a protocol between you to try to ensure NC when he makes his 6-weekly visit to the office. She can take a coffee break at that time, for example, and call you, etc.

- Lastly, I wish you the best with your R. Some people do it successfully & I hope that it works for you.


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## Eleftherios

alte Dame,
When he does show up she will be leaving the area he needs access to. Which is by her office. She will be going to the other side of the building. Thanks for the support and we are gonna try our hardest to make it work.

Dyokemm,
Sorry your grandparents didnt get along. if I had a serial cheater I'd leave and wouldn't even attempt to R. Seems to me that your grandparents held on to the anger and bitterness. I've let that go. That will shorten your life and detract from finding true happiness either with or without your SO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

Eleftherios,

Yes..it was a sad situation.

My understanding from my mother is that he chose to stay because of her (their first child). 

Ultimately I think it was a horrible idea to try with the resentment and bitterness in the M and household. It effected not only my grand parents but also the kids.

My mother and aunt (the A child) both have issues stemming from their childhood, and often these things come out when they argue to this day.


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## WyshIknew

Eleftherios said:


> alte Dame,
> When he does show up she will be leaving the area he needs access to. Which is by her office. She will be going to the other side of the building. Thanks for the support and we are gonna try our hardest to make it work.
> 
> Dyokemm,
> Sorry your grandparents didnt get along. if I had a serial cheater I'd leave and wouldn't even attempt to R. Seems to me that your grandparents held on to the anger and bitterness. I've let that go. That will shorten your life and detract from finding true happiness either with or without your SO.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi Eleftherios.

Obvious question I suppose, how will you be able to confirm that she is doing this?

Would it give you more peace of mind if she was to look for a similar position elsewhere?

Could you ask for him not to be sent to your wife's place of work?


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## Eleftherios

WishIKnew,
As weird as it sounds I have to trust her. Plus the way she talks to me about how disgusted she is in herself and how angry she is about the situation that I have to believe. Also she has had contact with him already. She freaked out and told her boss she had to leave and split. And as I said checking and be checked. She messed around with him after work not during. She gets off at 4:30 home by 5. Any variance and I'm all over that like stink on $hit. No I'm stopping off going to the store what ever kind of excuse. Plus with the GPS on her phone I will know were she's been. Her actions and words tell me she's with me not him. If you read this Dovelena I love you. Not her name just what I call her. Yes she reads this. I almost forgot to say I hope everyone is having a great day mine have been wonderful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BK23

I hope she earns the second chance you are giving her.


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## WyshIknew

Good news Eleftherios, hope it all works well for you.

I don't want to be seen as a 'negative nancy' but have you given any more thought to letting OMW know what went on?

Your wife reads this, would she be happy for you to let OMW know what went on?

I ask, not for purposes of revenge, but for the simple reason that I feel that OMW would like to know what her hubby does in his spare time.

It was only via a friendly warning twenty odd years ago that I was warned that some POS was sniffing around my wife. With that info I was able to inform him that fooling around with my wife would be a poor decision.

I am so grateful that somebody told me about this guy and armed with the truth I was able to deal with it.

Perhaps now you have let go of all feelings of pointless revenge it might be a good idea to let her know. I don't know, perhaps I look at these things incorrectly but to me not telling the other BS is a little like lying by omission.


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## Eleftherios

WishIknew,
When I informed her of the fact I was going to contact the OMW my wife wasn't happy with that. I told her he brought this on himself and yes I would have loved to have been informed so this didnt escalate into what it has. But the way I look at it now I don't want to waste my time on them. Is it wrong of me? Probably. But I'm a true believer in Karma. His will come and it will be worse than mine. So in my doing that will just keep perpetuating the anger. I know myself and if I don't stop I'll prolly end up in jail. Don't want to go back there. The negative nancy comment was for all the people who think everyone is broken when they do something wrong. I was a cocaine dealer/addict. Once a addict always an addict. Not by a long shot. She saved me when my family wanted noting to do with me. Now I have two beautiful children a great job and a wife who I truly love. Yes she strayed. I forgive her for that. Trust is being earned. When this was first starting a friend told me good people make mistakes. He also said that if you didn't know her and saw her on the street and wanted to be with her would what she did in the past matter? This coming from a man who regrets letting his ex slip away from him after she had an affair. He wishes he had reconciled instead of being a douche and treating her like $hit. He said he regrets it everyday. Revenge would be great but is it worth it in the end?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movin on

Negative nancy ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eleftherios

Negative Nancy= someone who always thinks badly about a situation.


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## Hope1964

Hi Eleftherios, I just wanted to commend you for doing what you're doing. You actually sound a lot like I felt right after D day. You can read my story here if you like. Hubby and I are over 3 years out from Dday#1 and deciding to R has most definitely not been a mistake for me! 

I do highly recommend MC though. I was ready after a couple of months and after my own IC, which I also recommend. Even just once or twice. Because you will have bad days. For a couple of years. The last year I finally feel better about things, but it did take a long time for me.

I wish you all the best, and if your wife is reading this, lady, do NOT fvck this chance up! You've got a keeper there.


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## bandit.45

Eleftherios said:


> WishIknew,
> When I informed her of the fact I was going to contact the OMW my wife wasn't happy with that. I told her he brought this on himself and yes I would have loved to have been informed so this didnt escalate into what it has. But the way I look at it now I don't want to waste my time on them. Is it wrong of me? Probably. But I'm a true believer in Karma. His will come and it will be worse than mine. So in my doing that will just keep perpetuating the anger. I know myself and if I don't stop I'll prolly end up in jail. Don't want to go back there. The negative nancy comment was for all the people who think everyone is broken when they do something wrong. I was a cocaine dealer/addict. Once a addict always an addict. Not by a long shot. She saved me when my family wanted noting to do with me. Now I have two beautiful children a great job and a wife who I truly love. Yes she strayed. I forgive her for that. Trust is being earned. When this was first starting a friend told me good people make mistakes. He also said that if you didn't know her and saw her on the street and wanted to be with her would what she did in the past matter? This coming from a man who regrets letting his ex slip away from him after she had an affair. He wishes he had reconciled instead of being a douche and treating her like $hit. He said he regrets it everyday. Revenge would be great but is it worth it in the end?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like what you're saying. But I still recommend she go to IC to figure out wht she let her boundaries drop. everything else you seem to have a handle on.


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## alte Dame

I want to urge you to rethink your decision about informing the OMW that her H travels around advising on IT and scr*wing the women in the offices he visits.

I firmly believe that this poor woman has a right to have this information that is so completely vital to important decisions that she makes about her own life.

This is not punishment or revenge. It's just doing the decent thing for a woman who is being treated very badly by a H that she probably trusts.


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## 3putt

alte Dame said:


> I want to urge you to rethink your decision about informing the OMW that her H travels around advising on IT and scr*wing the women in the offices he visits.
> 
> I firmly believe that this poor woman has a right to have this information that is so completely vital to important decisions that she makes about her own life.
> 
> This is not punishment or revenge. It's just doing the decent thing for a woman who is being treated very badly by a H that she probably trusts.


Totally agree.

Why is the truth so hard to tell? Seems these days, doing wrong comes easier than doing right.

Makes you just.... :scratchhead:


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## RWB

Eleftherios said:


> *When I informed her of the fact I was going to contact the OMW my wife wasn't happy with that.* I told her he brought this on himself and yes I would have loved to have been informed so this didnt escalate into what it has.


Your wife forfeited her right to secrecy. True remorse does not hide in the shadows of lies and denial. 

You would of welcomed the truth. Why would you deny OMW the same? It has nothing to do with revenge, it has everything to do with Truth?


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## tom67

RWB said:


> Your wife forfeited her right to secrecy. True remorse does not hide in the shadows of lies and denial.
> 
> You would of welcomed the truth. Why would you deny OMW the same? It has nothing to do with revenge, it has everything to do with Truth?


:iagree::iagree:


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## Eleftherios

Hi everyone,

Well the whole tell the OMW thing is a mess. He finally returned my call. He denied the whole thing:scratchhead: He said he's filing interstate stalking charges against me. Wow. He was asking me my personal information. Like I'm gonna give it to you. Duh. As far as they are concerned I'm done with it. Wether she knows or not I don't care. If he files she'll know for sure. I must admit it felt good to hear him squeal like a b#tch. Word to the players and cheaters you don't know what the spouse is capable of. I'm not making threats but if you open pandoras box expect to be dealt with. Done with the azz clown. Just for the record I didn't threaten him. I think his house of glass is showing cracks. He thinks I'll be scared of jail time. FYI been there done that. Difference between then and now is I can afford a better attorney


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## tom67

Eleftherios said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Well the whole tell the OMW thing is a mess. He finally returned my call. He denied the whole thing:scratchhead: He said he's filing interstate stalking charges against me. Wow. He was asking me my personal information. Like I'm gonna give it to you. Duh. As far as they are concerned I'm done with it. Wether she knows or not I don't care. If he files she'll know for sure. I must admit it felt good to hear him squeal like a b#tch. Word to the players and cheaters you don't know what the spouse is capable of. I'm not making threats but if you open pandoras box expect to be dealt with. Done with the azz clown. Just for the record I didn't threaten him. I think his house of glass is showing cracks. He thinks I'll be scared of jail time. FYI been there done that. Difference between then and now is I can afford a better attorney


Have your wife call her then:smthumbup:


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## 3putt

Eleftherios said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Well the whole tell the OMW thing is a mess. He finally returned my call. He denied the whole thing:scratchhead: He said he's filing interstate stalking charges against me. Wow. He was asking me my personal information. Like I'm gonna give it to you. Duh. As far as they are concerned I'm done with it. Wether she knows or not I don't care. If he files she'll know for sure. I must admit it felt good to hear him squeal like a b#tch. Word to the players and cheaters you don't know what the spouse is capable of. I'm not making threats but if you open pandoras box expect to be dealt with. Done with the azz clown. Just for the record I didn't threaten him. I think his house of glass is showing cracks. He thinks I'll be scared of jail time. FYI been there done that. Difference between then and now is I can afford a better attorney


Oh yeah, it's a mess alright, but for him, not you. LOL, OMs are notoriously cowards. This is nothing unusual, and frankly, quite typical. He was just looking for a piece of side action...nothing more, nothing less. But now that that little piece of side action comes with a serious price tag attached to it, well, the ROI lowers considerably.

Predictable man***** behavior.


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## alte Dame

Interstate stalking charges? 

An empty threat. He's just trying to get you to back off. The evidence you have of an affair would all come out if he tried to press charges. He's got to know that. It's all hot air. (Either that or he's a very stupid IT guy.)


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## Eleftherios

I'm going with stupid IT guy. He texted me and asked Did you call my job? Did you?. If you would have manned the F*€K UP and answered your phone you wouldn't be in such trouble at work now would we.

3putt what's ROI? 


Return on investment duh. Yeah he'll be screaming I got the poo on me when his wife finally finds out.


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## Eleftherios

alteDame he lives in another state.


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## bandit.45

He's blowing smoke. The piece of caca is a scrub and a coward. 

It would almost be worth the jail stay to travel there and use his face to scrub your wheel-wells.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShootMePlz!

He won't do anything for it would then become public record for all to see!!! Just trying to scare you!!!:smthumbup:


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## warlock07

Tell him that you have evidence for what he did.


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## Eleftherios

The thing he doesn't realize is I've been incarcerated. After doing my due diligence I'm looking at 180 days and a 2,500.00 fine. I'll do that standing on my head. Yeah I told him my wife told me everything yet he still denies it. Does he think my wife is going to take his side? Love to just knock his teeth down his throat. I'll take the assault charge too. He running scared and I love psychological warfare. I haven't been the bad guy in years. He's unleashed a pitbull. Got him in my jaws now comes the shake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BK23

This POS isn't worth doing a day in jail. Make sure his wife and employer know, set up a cheaterville site so this sticks with him, and then focus on yourself and your family.

I might add that it seems like you are directing all your anger at this guy. You need to come to terms with the fact that your wife CHOSE to have an affair with him. She isn't some helpless idiot that was manipulated and tricked into sleeping with this POS. This guy didn't owe you anything, your wife did. You need to get a handle on where you anger should be directed and who really hurt you.


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## WyshIknew

Eleftherios said:


> I'm going with stupid IT guy. He texted me and asked Did you call my job? Did you?. If you would have manned the F*€K UP and answered your phone you wouldn't be in such trouble at work now would we.
> 
> 3putt what's ROI?
> 
> 
> Return on investment duh. Yeah he'll be screaming I got the poo on me when his wife finally finds out.


If you would have manned the F*€K UP and answered your phone you wouldn't be in such trouble at work now would we.

Did you tell him this?


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## badbane

Eleftherios said:


> The thing he doesn't realize is I've been incarcerated. After doing my due diligence I'm looking at 180 days and a 2,500.00 fine. I'll do that standing on my head. Yeah I told him my wife told me everything yet he still denies it. Does he think my wife is going to take his side? Love to just knock his teeth down his throat. I'll take the assault charge too. He running scared and I love psychological warfare. I haven't been the bad guy in years. He's unleashed a pitbull. Got him in my jaws now comes the shake.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


INterstate stalking ??????? what the heck is that. IS that even a thing. Stupid people and no you aren't stalking him. Send his house a magazine subscription with a letter in it from you to the OMW. Simply say your husband is cheating on you. IF you want to know more don't say anything to your H. Call me at XXXXXXX make sure it is your cell phone not your house phone. Cell phones are harder to track down.


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## Eleftherios

No anger. The wife got her's. Yes I told him to man up and he just denied it all. He shouldn't have threatened me. I run from nothing. I'll take my lumps like a man. Not some coward who hides and runs. I have nothing to hide so come and get me. Just gonna let it go. I think his wife should be suspicious by now. He has to be a nervous wreck. Looking over your shoulder wondering what's next. 
Like posted before he won't do it then he'll just be ratting himself out. He's a coward. Anyway I'm having a great day. My conscious is clear and my wife and I will be focusing our energy towards us. It's sunny 83 degrees and I'm going to enjoy it with my wife after I get off work. Fire up the Harley and ride. I languish no more on the A. I am free. Triggers will happen but I'll be working diligently on controlling that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy

Eleftherios said:


> No anger. The wife got her's. Yes I told him to man up and he just denied it all. He shouldn't have threatened me. I run from nothing. I'll take my lumps like a man. Not some coward who hides and runs. I have nothing to hide so come and get me. Just gonna let it go.* I think his wife should be suspicious by now.* He has to be a nervous wreck. Looking over your shoulder wondering what's next.
> Like posted before he won't do it then he'll just be ratting himself out. He's a coward. Anyway I'm having a great day. My conscious is clear and my wife and I will be focusing our energy towards us. It's sunny 83 degrees and I'm going to enjoy it with my wife after I get off work. Fire up the Harley and ride. I languish no more on the A. I am free. Triggers will happen but I'll be working diligently on controlling that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay, I'm going to quote myself from your other thread, since you never responded. 



tulsy said:


> You contact OM's wife yet?
> 
> I am not surprised you triggered, I read your thread. Your wife cheated, then lied about it, then trickle-truth'ed you.
> 
> She also doesn't want you contacting the OM's wife....have you stopped to ask yourself why that is? Probably more to the story than you know.
> 
> So this is your new thread, about your reconciliation with your wife. I wish you good luck, but you really should listen to the advice you've been given in your other thread.
> 
> Definitely blow it up for the OM's wife...a lot of talk about how you aren't afraid of the OM or going to jail, so why are you afraid to take that step?


So you aren't planning on telling the OMW? 
You're playing head-games with yourself, imagining what OM is thinking or worried about...just tell her already! We get it, you aren't afraid of anything, except telling her, apparently.

Is it because you wife doesn't want you to tell her? You already stated that your wife had a problem with that....that should be a big red-flag, and even more incentive to tell the OMW.

Or not...really it's your choice....just not sure what you are going on about, how great everything is, yet no exposure and no idea if you have the whole story. For all you know, OMW may have some pretty interesting information for you too.

Since you're out riding the Harley, why not ride on over to her place and see if she's home.

How can you begin to recover when you skip over stuff like this? It could really bite you in the azz later. Also, don't you think that she deserves to know what her husband has been up to?


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## Eleftherios

What information would she have? I'm not affraid to tell her. As I said she'll find out soon enough. By ME. Does that satisfy you. I will know nothing that happens to him after that. What will bite me in the azz? If more shiz comes out then I'm gone simple as that. I don't want to ride the Harley to his state. I'm more into country riding not city. Go read my response to you in reconciliation that should answer your questions. Have a great day. I have to go back to work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker

Been catching up on all your posts. It's all your choice of course and no one here can understand your situation and reasoning better than you do. Coming from my experience however, I think you still aught to inform the OMW.

My wife's affair lasted about three months before I ended up catching her similar to how you caught yours I think. I happened upon her phone before she had a chance to delete that day's texts. She went out drinking one night (which was increasingly common those few months) and I ended up having to go pick her up and bring her home from the bar. That was a very rare thing in and of itself. This time though, she was angry drunk. Pushing me away, calling me names, just pissed off. I still carried her to bed, and she kicked at me when I finished. I was frustrated, saw her phone sticking out of her purse, knew things were wrong/weird for months and that she had been coveting that phone for a while, and there were the texts. They ****ed in her car in a grocery store parking lot that afternoon during my daughters gymnastics class. (yes she left class to go **** him) His kids go to my daughters school, one of them in my daughter's class, so that is how we knew him and his wife.

Worse, they were seeing each other and ****ing about six days a week. I was working a full time job and a part time job, typically seven days a week, after she got laid off from her job and wanted to go back to school to get her degree, so I took the part time job to allow for that. Yes, I worked my ass off seven days a week 9 - 14 hours per day, so that she could do online school and **** him in trucks, public restrooms and in my home while I was working.

I asked her to leave in the morning when she woke up. She left for about a week before she convinced me that she wanted to save the marriage and I let her come home. We started MC that week as well. Things seemed well, and I decided NOT to inform the OMW because he too was married with three young kids and honestly I didn't want to have anything to do with breaking up another family. (Yeah, sounds crazy now I suppose) Then two weeks later I get a call from my sister who said this woman had called her trying to get a hold of me. Naturally it was the OMW, and thankfully she made up a cover story for why she wanted to reach me so that my sister didn't find out. Somehow she found her number, I'm not sure how. I talked to the OMW quickly telling her that I had no interest in speaking with her. She apologized for bothering me and calling my sister, then quickly added that she had found inappropriate texts between her husband and my wife "last night" and wanted to see if I knew anything about it.

Well, god damnit.

Within two days of being caught and being out of the house, it turned out that my wife had bought a pre-paid cell phone. Ya know, those $10 el-cheapo phones that call and text at $0.01/text. The affair was still on. When caught, even though he had made grandiose promises to her about running away together, he backed off and she couldn't convince him to take her away, so she came back to me as her back-up. I went home from work immediately and it just so happened that her mom was there with her. I told her what I knew and she ran off angry and hurt. Her mom became upset with her and was apologetic to me. Several hours later, my wife reappears begging for forgiveness and smashes the phone right in front of me. Now making her commit to a lot of promises of openness, no privacy, more frequent MC, etc. I gave her a 3rd chance.

Sorry for the long story, but the point of it is that I wish I had told the OMW, because it turned out she has been suspicious for a while too, and the OM had two or three prior affairs as well. It would have been helpful if I had gotten in touch with her right away after the first discovery.

While it isn't really related, that 2nd time she was caught in the affair with him wasn't even the last time. She couldn't stay away and went back to him about ten days later, but it eventually ended about six weeks after that, which was about two weeks before she met a new OM.

Yeah, 2010 was a lousy year I tell ya.


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## Eleftherios

Tulsy I'm not playing head games with myself. Evidently you didnt understand my post. I WILL TELL THE OMW. Sorry for shouting. He thinks I'm scared from his threat of legal action. Gonna let him think I've gone away then give him the final b*tch slap. Then he gets to explain everything to his wife and kids. He already is taking heat from his job. He was at the wife's job this morning. He kept his distance and she had strictly business interaction with him. A few words were exchanged can you let me in the server room which she has the key for. She was going to leave work when she saw his car at work when she pulled into the lot but she said f that I'll make him feel uncomfortable. She was going to call me at first but she knew that wouldn't bode well. Yes I would have went there and yes I would have beat him senseless. She said it made her feel good to make him feel like shizzle. He went about his work and came to her office last and asked if her computer had any issues and she said nope. That was the end of there interaction. He didn't attempt to enter her office. She said he prolly felt the vibe of I hate you while she stayed professional. Makes me feel good. Also she said to me that the OMW needs to know. She ready to face up to it. Also makes me feel good. So there it is in a nutshell. Feeling good about my dovelena and me.

PS.
Just to let everyone know she called me at work and told me about him being there. If that doesn't shows she's committed I don't know what else would.


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## 3putt

Eleftherios said:


> Tulsy I'm not playing head games with myself. Evidently you didnt understand my post. I WILL TELL THE OMW. Sorry for shouting. He thinks I'm scared from his threat of legal action. Gonna let him think I've gone away then give him the final b*tch slap. Then he gets to explain everything to his wife and kids. He already is taking heat from his job. He was at the wife's job this morning. He kept his distance and she had strictly business interaction with him. A few words were exchanged can you let me in the server room which she has the key for. She was going to leave work when she saw his car at work when she pulled into the lot but she said f that I'll make him feel uncomfortable. She was going to call me at first but she knew that wouldn't bode well. Yes I would have went there and yes I would have beat him senseless. She said it made her feel good to make him feel like shizzle. He went about his work and came to her office last and asked if her computer had any issues and she said nope. That was the end of there interaction. He didn't attempt to enter her office. She said he prolly felt the vibe of I hate you while she stayed professional. Makes me feel good. *Also she said to me that the OMW needs to know. She ready to face up to it.* Also makes me feel good. So there it is in a nutshell. Feeling good about my dovelena and me.
> 
> PS.
> Just to let everyone know she called me at work and told me about him being there. If that doesn't shows she's committed I don't know what else would.


Okay, I was beginning to think you were a complete idiot for taking the word of a WW until I read this.

Just call her, and get this dead and buried so you can move forward with recovery.


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## WyshIknew

Eleftherios said:


> Tulsy I'm not playing head games with myself. Evidently you didnt understand my post. I WILL TELL THE OMW. Sorry for shouting. He thinks I'm scared from his threat of legal action. Gonna let him think I've gone away then give him the final b*tch slap. Then he gets to explain everything to his wife and kids. He already is taking heat from his job. He was at the wife's job this morning. He kept his distance and she had strictly business interaction with him. A few words were exchanged can you let me in the server room which she has the key for. She was going to leave work when she saw his car at work when she pulled into the lot but she said f that I'll make him feel uncomfortable. She was going to call me at first but she knew that wouldn't bode well. Yes I would have went there and yes I would have beat him senseless. She said it made her feel good to make him feel like shizzle. He went about his work and came to her office last and asked if her computer had any issues and she said nope. That was the end of there interaction. He didn't attempt to enter her office. She said he prolly felt the vibe of I hate you while she stayed professional. Makes me feel good. Also she said to me that the OMW needs to know. She ready to face up to it. Also makes me feel good. So there it is in a nutshell. Feeling good about my dovelena and me.
> 
> PS.
> Just to let everyone know she called me at work and told me about him being there. If that doesn't shows she's committed I don't know what else would.


Good news Eleftherios.

Hope the little shyte stain squirms.

I think a bit of the confusion was that some people (me included) interpreted your post of a few days ago as you saying you were done with OM and OMW.

I think your wife being fully on board with you letting OMW know is a very good sign.


----------



## Eleftherios

Everyone I'm sorry for the confusion. When I said I'm done with it I was meaning mentally. The wife and I are focusing on each other and our children. I was actually quite calm when the wife told me of the contact. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall for that. He just pissed me off with the legal threats. I'm going to be contacting her with a letter. I'll be sending several over a few day period in case he intercepts them. After that I'm done with them in all areas of my life. Just want to be happy. Thanks everyone you've all been helpful in this journey. Keep your heads up and hoping we all find our way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eleftherios

Well no Feds have been to my house to arrest me yet.


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

And they won't be coming at all.

Do you really think this p***y is going to go crying to anyone about this?

No matter what story he put out, the investigation would uncover the truth, which is this:

"I f'd this other guy's wife and now he's being really mean to me by telling my employer I'm banging the customers and trying to inform my wife."

Every man who is not a scumbag will want to slap him themselves.


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## Eleftherios

Didn't think he'd throw himself under the bus. Posted that so everyone could get a laugh. He gets the drop him no his knees crying blow next week. Time for his heartache to begin. Feel sorry for her but it's the right thing to do and the final paragraph in my story of deceit and lies. Time for my family and I to move on. We will make it.


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## Eleftherios

Well the deed is done.


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## bandit.45

Eleftherios said:


> Well the deed is done.


What?


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## Hope1964

bandit.45 said:


> What?


I assume he sent the letters to OMW.


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## tulsy

Hope1964 said:


> I assume he sent the letters to OMW.


Hope so


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## Eleftherios

tulsy said:


> Hope so


Yes she has been informed.


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## WyshIknew

Eleftherios said:


> Yes she has been informed.


Was she surprised?

Or did she already know?


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## Eleftherios

Caught her like a Mike Tyson upper cut. I feel sad for her. Doesn't feel good being the bearer of bad news. But it's over with. Moving on.


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## Truthseeker1

Eleftherios said:


> Caught her like a Mike Tyson upper cut. I feel sad for her. Doesn't feel good being the bearer of bad news. But it's over with. Moving on.


Has she contacted you?


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## Eleftherios

Talked to her at her job. Found all there information by doing a search. I know what he looks like what his wife looks like there resumes email places of work. People really don't think when they do things. The Internet is a very useful tool. Don't see why people need a private detective. I also sent the OM a text telling him I knew he wouldnt go to the police and expose himself. He won't answer when I call. I've had the info since DD. Just been letting him think he was getting away with it. That's why I don't have FB LinkedIn or any of that. Thats where i found were she worked and her photo. And I don't post pictures of myself. But enough of this I'm ready to move on and heal. I'm done with this negative shizzle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Cro-Magnon

Eleftherios said:


> Talked to her at her job. Found all there information by doing a search. I know what he looks like what his wife looks like there resumes email places of work. People really don't think when they do things. The Internet is a very useful tool. Don't see why people need a private detective. I also sent the OM a text telling him I knew he wouldnt go to the police and expose himself. He won't answer when I call. I've had the info since DD. Just been letting him think he was getting away with it. That's why I don't have FB LinkedIn or any of that. Thats where i found were she worked and her photo. And I don't post pictures of myself. But enough of this I'm ready to move on and heal. I'm done with this negative shizzle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


About time. You've made a big song and dance about doing something that I would have done instantly. And you still have not exposed to her family, etc, and she still is not utilizing IC to understand why it is she has boundary issues and so easily let another man slip his dck into her. 

You can't put a bandaid on a dagger wound mate, it's still always gonna be there unless you do the surgery that is advised.


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## Eleftherios

Cro-Magnon I don't feel it necessary to post a blow by blow account of my life. You have no clue as to what is going on in my life except what is posted here. Because it isnt written here doesn't mean we aren't going to a shrink our family members do know does that satisfy some of your cravings to know?


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## WyshIknew

Eleftherios said:


> Talked to her at her job. Found all there information by doing a search. I know what he looks like what his wife looks like there resumes email places of work. People really don't think when they do things. The Internet is a very useful tool. Don't see why people need a private detective. I also sent the OM a text telling him I knew he wouldnt go to the police and expose himself. He won't answer when I call. I've had the info since DD. Just been letting him think he was getting away with it. That's why I don't have FB LinkedIn or any of that. Thats where i found were she worked and her photo. And I don't post pictures of myself. But enough of this I'm ready to move on and heal. I'm done with this negative shizzle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good news Eleftherios, unpleasant but necessary.

Hope you keep us updated and stick around to help others.


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## LongWalk

Eleftherios said:


> What up my peeps . As far as knowing everything i feel she has told it all to me. After the first stumbling block I told her I need all truth from here on out. She laid it on the table. She is very guilty sad and remorseful for what she has done. As far as my mind it's a tormented sea of love hate anger revenge sadness etc. she doesn't want to move out. She said she's staying here to fight for her boys back. Meaning me also not just the kids. I'm moving in with my sister in a few days. I need minimal contact with her right now. It's just easier for me logistically and financially to do this and if I don't see or talk to her Im hoping it will enable me to see a clearer picture. The hyper bonding is over and intimacy is hard. Feels dirty and disgusting. Then for her to lay in my arms and know she did those things with him also. EEEWWW. As far as her reading this I don't give a rats a$$. She needs to feel the stinging truth as to what she's done and what's about to happen. She had no regards to my feelings for a year. As far as the OM and OMW screw them. They no longer will ruin my life. What goes around comes around. I look at her and know I love her and am in love with her but I feel empty towards her. Cried really hard yesterday. Felt good. Thanks again everyone.


You are doing a good job of dealing with the situation. The post above documents how you have been processing a welter of conflicting emotions and facts. Trust yourself. Post as you feel necessary to ball ideas and feelings with those who have been in a similar place.

There is nothing to stop you from having a period of R in which your wife has to work on herself. You, too, are undergoing change. Your wife is probably desparately hoping that you will lead her out of the mess she has created.

What it was like in pre-history, before there were churches? A primary male male mate who found himself discarded sometime in turn got rid of his rival by violence or perhaps the rival was injured on a hunt and the woman needed to reset her emotional bond back to the first mate to survive.

Starvation and violence don't figure in anymore, but the swings in condition are analogous. Is divorce into instability the equivalent of angry predator roaming outside the camp?


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## manticore

hi Eleftherios

i saw that you took the R path which is the more dificult. I have seen men who took it and after 5 or 8 years of trying they just cant forgive the betrayal and ended up wasting all those years, and effort and money they wish back, there are others who took it just to discover that their partner is in fact a serial cheater, i also know people who took it and after 10 years together they just admit something die in them and they are still with the wwh but dont feel love or hapiness anymore but stillv together in misery.

in the other hand i know people who has took it and say it was the best decision, after all the pain and suffering (even for years), they went through they learned how to communicate they needs how to be closer to each other o how to remain in love after conquering such a hard trial.

i normally suggest and support both paths depending the situation, i am not closed minded thinking betrayal is betrayal so f**k up, or you make your vows to god, and for your children so you have to stay there a fix things (there are pals here that are advocates of one of these and deny the posibility of even think in the other).

but in your case i honestly prefer to stay neutral, i saw your point by sharing your past, how this woman saved you and support you in your worst time, how can you deny it a chance now. In the other hand people do change even if we dont like it and their beliefs and convictions can change su much that they become a totally different person.

i saw your efforts to rebuild you M even wanting to trust her already, i wish nothig but hapiness for you and if it can be with the woman you still love taking the R path then much better, but i honestly think you are rushing things and maybe influenced iby your wishfull thinking.

i have seen many posts from wwh that admits that their first reaction is to beg forgivness to their BS: wives that make all the act of being regretefull and still loving their husbands even when they will post later that they are not in love anymore but prefer to stay with him that alone, others that admit that still love the OM but as they know this one just used them they stay with the H, others that now hate the OM stay with the H because OM was not worth the time but they still intent to lookf for a new OM.

do i am telling you that your wife falls in this categories, hell i dont know but i really hope not to be the case, but as you are going so fast with the healing process i wish at leats to tell you many of the husbands that firgive their wwh to fast and without a real separation time form each other, feel later that it was a mistake that the W is taking them for granted as it was to easy to return after such a devastating act.

you said that technology now days is amazing the you dont know why people still use PI this days, and i agree now days thanks to technology we can know the true and event used it to began a new if neccesary.

i would like to adivise you to use the Polygraph, i see you want already to began R but i hope you do it under solid grounds that can sustain a hole new and better marriage, and no under lies and false expectations.

you can ask thing as:

was this OM the first extra marital affair in the marriage, confirm the facts that you have about the A, ask if OM was available have she gone with him instead of you. You may think that is not necessary, that you already trust her but remember if some months ago sombeday have tell you if your wife had cheated on you what would have been you answer.

It could appear that i dont support you R, but not the case i just hope that if yo are going to take a road that could take 5 years or more to be totally healed at least you do it with all the facts in hand and not in wishfull thinking, just read the post of how many BS here have found more devastating trues after taking their WWh to the POLY, and even if it hurth them is way better that live a lie for many years more.

be strong and find happines whetever road you choice.


----------



## tulsy

Eleftherios said:


> Cro-Magnon I don't feel it necessary to post a blow by blow account of my life. You have no clue as to what is going on in my life except what is posted here. Because it isnt written here doesn't mean we aren't going to a shrink our family members do know does that satisfy some of your cravings to know?


Eleftherios, it's apparent you are looking exclusively for sugar-coated responses, and when you don't get them, you lash out. Cro-Magnon was making a very important point that you either completely missed or dismissed.

Some of us are very blunt, but you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss things you don't want to hear. Believe it or not, we all want nothing but the best for you. 



manticore said:


> ...
> 
> i saw your efforts to rebuild you M even wanting to trust her already, i wish nothig but hapiness for you and if it can be with the woman you still love taking the R path then much better, but* i honestly think you are rushing things and maybe influenced by your wishful thinking*......


:iagree: THIS ^^

You are going to have ups and downs, emotions and thoughts running wild. Just try to understand that you can't rush the reconciliation, no matter how much you want to. The process is long and hard, and if you don't do it right, you will be back here again one day. 

Good luck man.


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## theroad

Eleftherios said:


> Cro-Magnon I don't feel it necessary to post a blow by blow account of my life. You have no clue as to what is going on in my life except what is posted here. Because it isnt written here doesn't mean we aren't going to a shrink our family members do know does that satisfy some of your cravings to know?


Dollars to doughnuts when a poster will not answer questions he is avoiding things. Avoiding things is a huge red flag. It indicates a poster that does not want to do what is necessary.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

theroad said:


> Dollars to doughnuts when a poster will not answer questions he is avoiding things. Avoiding things is a huge red flag. It indicates a poster that does not want to do what is necessary.











OR, Operation Rug Sweep is in full swing...


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## Eleftherios

Well everyone I haven't been here in awhile because my job is taking up a lot of my time. I had my shrink read my thread. He sad some people are helpful but others are holding on to resentment for there misfortunes. As far as the rug sweep comment he said I'm far from that. He has me doing things to push it to the back of mind and not let it consume me. It's ok to remember it but don't let it keep dredging up the negatives. What my wife and I had is in the past. We need to keep the good parts and move forward. It's an up hill battle and one day I may just say I'm done and divorce. Thats the way it works. Others here have a different mindset and choose to walk away and that's what works for them. I on the other hand feel its worth trying. I know my limits. I just had a hard time with devastating the OMW. But it's done and I do feel better letting her know. I'm not one to tell my life's story so with that I apologize for seeming sketchy but that's me. This place has helped me enormously and I'm thankful. I am moving forward and not looking back. My shrink said its like self mutilation to keep yourself stuck on stupid. Keep holding on to the resentment, anger and such will only make me sick. Both mentally and physically. The wife is seeing her shrink and soon we will be in joint counseling. I've seen and felt her change for the good. It saddens me when I see her on the days it's tearing her up inside for what has happened. Surprisingly our kids are doing well with this. They see my shrink so that's how I know. I'm glad I have free counseling through my insurance. So to those that keep this in the front of there minds hope you too can find the way to heal. It's not easy by any stretch. Thanks everyone for your help. Good day.


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## Acabado

Best wishes friend.


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## staystrong

Hmm.. sort of sounds like rugsweeping to me. I sense anger down the road for you Eleftherios. I wish the best of luck to you both, though.


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## jack.c

mmmmmm...... and how much money does this shrink get from you?

Only asking because you will probably gonna pay him again and even more!

good luck


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## phillybeffandswiss

Eleftherios said:


> He has me doing things to push it to the back of mind and not let it consume me.
> 
> It's ok to remember it but don't let it keep dredging up the negatives.
> 
> What my wife and I had is in the past.
> 
> My shrink said its like self mutilation to keep yourself stuck on stupid.


Sorry, sounds like someone is protecting their paycheck.

Good luck and I sincerely hope it works out.


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## Eleftherios

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, sounds like someone is protecting their paycheck.
> 
> Good luck and I sincerely hope it works out.


No paycheck worries. I'm ready to lose what ever amount of money. It isn't everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eleftherios

jack.c said:


> mmmmmm...... and how much money does this shrink get from you?
> 
> Only asking because you will probably gonna pay him again and even more!
> 
> good luck


He gets nothing from me. I'm in the Carpenters Union. All benefits are employer paid. Health, pension and annuity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eleftherios

staystrong said:


> Hmm.. sort of sounds like rugsweeping to me. I sense anger down the road for you Eleftherios. I wish the best of luck to you both, though.


Anger is one of the issues I've been working on with the shrink. He's been teaching me ways to deal with it in a positive way. Truthfully I hate being angry. It makes me very non productive. And like the shrink said I may very we'll just say I'm done and walk away. He's dealt with these issues and says that's what happens to some people others are able to work through it. He also said it will take a long time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

Eleftherios said:


> No paycheck worries. I'm ready to lose what ever amount of money. It isn't everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was a shot at your counselor not you. You want to work things out and I don't begrudge anyone what they choose.


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## Eleftherios

From some of the posts it seems that I'm supposed to just keep feeling upset about the affair. It happened and there is nothing I can do. Do I keep bashing her about it. Do I keep shouting at the top of my lungs to all who listen that my wife had an affair? To the few that harbor all these bad feelings about their situation i feel for you. I'm trying to be positive and not keep beating a dead horse. Call it what you will. Think what you think. For me and my life this is what I think is best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eleftherios

phillybeffandswiss said:


> That was a shot at your counselor not you. You want to work things out and I don't begrudge anyone what they choose.


Sorry thought that was aimed at me. He gets paid if we see him or not. He's part of our health package.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Eleftherios said:


> From some of the posts it seems that I'm supposed to just keep feeling upset about the affair. It happened and there is nothing I can do. Do I keep bashing her about it. Do I keep shouting at the top of my lungs to all who listen that my wife had an affair? To the few that harbor all these bad feelings about their situation i feel for you. I'm trying to be positive and not keep beating a dead horse. Call it what you will. Think what you think. For me and my life this is what I think is best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It all boils down to what you can live with I guess. We're all different. I think what really matters is that you come out the other side of this a batter person than you went in, R, or D.

You sound like you've dicided to just let the water roll of your back, vs. just getting out of the rain.

I wish you well, take care.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Eleftherios said:


> Sorry thought that was aimed at me. He gets paid if we see him or not. He's part of our health package.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No worries.
Fix yourself, fix your marriage and keep your eyes open.


----------



## davecarter

Eleftherios said:


> From some of the posts it seems that I'm supposed to just keep feeling upset about the affair. It happened and there is nothing I can do. Do I keep bashing her about it. Do I keep shouting at the top of my lungs to all who listen that my wife had an affair? To the few that harbor all these bad feelings about their situation i feel for you. I'm trying to be positive and not keep beating a dead horse. Call it what you will. Think what you think. For me and my life this is what I think is best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Similar situation to me and my wife's situation: my anger-management and (violence) issues are what I've been working on for a few months.
However, Ive accepted my marriage is dead - working on me is what Im doing now...


----------



## Eleftherios

Dave sorry to hear you've reached the end of your marriage. Keep working on you. I've been doing the same. I don't know of I will be able to get past this but I'm trying. If it goes south at least I know I tried. Keep striving and the best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Elef, you do what it is that you feel it's right for you. You sound like a pretty bright guy. Just remember when something doesn't feel right in your gut there is a reason for you feeling that way. As for the ones you say are bitter, just look at it this way. They're just injecting a small amount of reality check once in a while. Kind of like keeping you on your toes. Take it for what it's worth because overall you get a very good cross section of opinions from here. Taken together it's a good balance and helps keep things in perspective.


----------



## Eleftherios

bfree said:


> Elef, you do what it is that you feel it's right for you. You sound like a pretty bright guy. Just remember when something doesn't feel right in your gut there is a reason for you feeling that way. As for the ones you say are bitter, just look at it this way. They're just injecting a small amount of reality check once in a while. Kind of like keeping you on your toes. Take it for what it's worth because overall you get a very good cross section of opinions from here. Taken together it's a good balance and helps keep things in perspective.


bfree I do what is right for me and my situation. As far as the bitterness comment that was from my shrink after he read my post. I'm vigilant in what is going on. I'm focused on being a better me. I can't control her and what she does. And keeping this fresh in our minds will not allow me to make a good decision as to stay or go. Right now I'm trying to rebuild. My shrink said it will take a minimum of two years to get past and that at anytime I could just say to heck with it and leave. Just taking it one day at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Eleftherios said:


> bfree I do what is right for me and my situation. As far as the bitterness comment that was from my shrink after he read my post. I'm vigilant in what is going on. I'm focused on being a better me. I can't control her and what she does. And keeping this fresh in our minds will not allow me to make a good decision as to stay or go. Right now I'm trying to rebuild. My shrink said it will take a minimum of two years to get past and that at anytime I could just say to heck with it and leave. Just taking it one day at a time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes 2-5 years is the average recovery from this type of thing. Patience is key. You've got the right attitude.


----------



## Eleftherios

bfree said:


> Yes 2-5 years is the average recovery from this type of thing. Patience is key. You've got the right attitude.


Just trying to keep it positive. Long road ahead and I know I'll have setbacks along the way. Just trying to minimize them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missthelove2013

wow what a story...I truly feel or you, Eleftherios...no one should have to go through that.

good luck to you and yours, I sincerely hope it works out...I could not do it...after listening to my wife, who cheated, claim to want 100% transparency and honesty, and THEN find out she was still lying about it and hiding it, I would have been DONE...

I dont know you guys, but Ive seen plenty of reconcilliations that were wonderful, hell even got divorced and remarried her, just to have her cheat again...once a cheater always in my book...yes thats a generalization but man thats even more painful the next time  I mean, you cant gps her forever, or keep checking her ****...and, if someone REALLY wants to cheat, an anonomous gmail account at work only, NEVER accessed on phone or home computers, is very easy...sorry to be negative nancy but once someone kills my trust, especially TWICE...its LONG GONE

I totally agree with letting omw know, she deserves to know, and there is nothing wrong with vengaence being a little part of it...but why so angry at the om?? HE didnt cheat on you, she did...and it wasnt like he was continially pursuing her, he blew her off, right??

just my thoughts...for me, part of healing would be realizing that the om isnt the one who cheated on me, let the anger go, and focus on the ONE and ONLY person who did...my wife...and either move on with or without her...


----------



## turnera

Eleftherios said:


> From some of the posts it seems that I'm supposed to just keep feeling upset about the affair. It happened and there is nothing I can do. Do I keep bashing her about it. Do I keep shouting at the top of my lungs to all who listen that my wife had an affair? To the few that harbor all these bad feelings about their situation i feel for you. I'm trying to be positive and not keep beating a dead horse. Call it what you will. Think what you think. For me and my life this is what I think is best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I think the point may be to go ahead and move on, but also to be cognizant of your situation. If you're trying to R but your "F"WW is still lying or hiding details, you're spinning your wheels and moving on is the same thing as rugsweeping. And we all know that rugsweeping just means more cheating down the road.


----------



## weightlifter

Elef please drop by every once in a while.

Yea Im a bit cynical on your situation so PROVE ME WRONG. I will be extremely happy if you do!

Others- Remember this guy did prison. Ill venture he can compartmentalize better than average. We have also seen way worse wives/situations.

Elef. Please do reassure you are NOT going to 100% trust again and do keep that radar up!

She is still transparent?


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Eleftherios said:


> Just trying to keep it positive. Long road ahead and I know I'll have setbacks along the way. Just trying to minimize them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The question is whether your wife is ready to work hard for this long? Is she expecting you to get over this in few more months?


----------



## Eleftherios

Hi everyone, 
Haven't been here in a while. Work is eating up my time. Weightlifter I want to prove you wrong. Will I ? Time will tell. Her being in it for the long haul is up to her. She acknowledges the fact that it won't be over in two weeks. She talked to me about feeling like we keep her at arms length. Which is true. The trusting 100 percent is true. As far as tracking her forever I know that is crazy and I won't let that eat me alive. She is very transparent. We haven't been apart since this mess started. Besides work hours. The prison statement is true. I can put things away. I did time for drugs not violent crime. We had a good discussion last night and she said she knows the heavy lifting as they call it is on her. She knows she f#@ked up. I just keep taking it one day at a time. Have a good day everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jack.c

Eleftherios said:


> Hi everyone,
> Haven't been here in a while. Work is eating up my time. Weightlifter I want to prove you wrong. Will I ? Time will tell. Her being in it for the long haul is up to her. She acknowledges the fact that it won't be over in two weeks. She talked to me about feeling like we keep her at arms length. Which is true. The trusting 100 percent is true. As far as tracking her forever I know that is crazy and I won't let that eat me alive. She is very transparent. We haven't been apart since this mess started. Besides work hours. The prison statement is true. I can put things away. I did time for drugs not violent crime. We had a good discussion last night and she said she knows the heavy lifting as they call it is on her. She knows she f#@ked up. I just keep taking it one day at a time. Have a good day everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I wish you a better life.... good luck


----------



## Eleftherios

jackc. Thanks for the support. My gut was telling me yesterday the OM was at her job. I was having a rough day with the mental stuff and we were texting all morning. She was upset that I was hurting and as soon as I made it home from my 12 hour shift she told me he was there yesterday. If that's not transparent I don't know what is. She was crying and was worried it would set me off after the day I was having and didn't want to hurt me more. She knows not to tell me when I'm at work because I would leave and do something that would get me in legal trouble. As far as wanting to beat the crap out of the OM my reasons are the fact he threatened me with legal charges. I don't take kindly to threats. Surprisingly after hearing her tell me he was there I didn't flip out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WyshIknew

Eleftherios said:


> jackc. Thanks for the support. My gut was telling me yesterday the OM was at her job. I was having a rough day with the mental stuff and we were texting all morning. She was upset that I was hurting and as soon as I made it home from my 12 hour shift she told me he was there yesterday. If that's not transparent I don't know what is. She was crying and was worried it would set me off after the day I was having and didn't want to hurt me more. She knows not to tell me when I'm at work because I would leave and do something that would get me in legal trouble. As far as wanting to beat the crap out of the OM my reasons are the fact he threatened me with legal charges. I don't take kindly to threats. Surprisingly after hearing her tell me he was there I didn't flip out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FWIW Eleftherios, I think by and large you are handling things correctly. Nobody, but nobody, does everything 100% right.

Did you ever launch a formal complaint at his place of work?

Hopefully his life has turned to shet at home!


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## mahike

I did not go back an read the whole thread but it sounds like she needs to find another job so there is no chance she will see him at work. This is part of the heavy lifting she needs to do.

Good luck with things and talk with an IC about your anger. I did and it help a great deal.


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## Eleftherios

Never new of a formal complaint. Did contact his employer though. Been working with the shrink about the anger. I have been doing quite well with it actually. The new job thing is in the works. As far as doing things right is there a manual? I look at it as raising a child live learn and make better choices for your mistakes. I read a thread on here and the guy was stating how he kicked her to the curb did this did that divorced her and all he kept stating was how much he loved her. Did he make the wrong choices? IMO yes. It's not easy going through this. But there is still something between my wife and I. It is actually better than what we had before strange as it may sound. I don't know about his home life but I'm sure it isn't pleasant. I'm sure women go through similar emotional trauma as men after the light of day has been shed upon the affair. As far as the OM and OMW I don't give a shizzle. I have my own pieces of shattered life to deal with. misssthelove if she cheats again I'm gone. Yes I will hurt but she will have severed any hope of having me in her life. Gotta love rain delays at work. Sitting here getting paid to talk to fellow TAM members.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eleftherios

It's been awhile since I've been here. Had to take a break. The stories kept brining it back to the front of my mind. 

The last 9 months have been up and down. She has been quite good at the heavy lifting. My own thoughts and emotions about the A have been lessening month by month. 

For those that wonder if it ever will go away IMO no. The triggers still come but the effects aren't as drastic and of shorter duration.

To everyone that has commented to my posts thank you. I've taken bits and pieces used them as they fit the situations.

The first few months were happy for lack of a better term. Then the shock wears off and you have a good grasp of yourself and your WW spouse. 

Our lives will never be the same. She is truly remorseful and I see the toll that it has taken on her. She and I have talked more than we ever have. It's been meaningful conversation not just banter back and forth. 

I've been working very hard on myself and doing things for myself. My mindset is I'm making me happy and if you want some join in if not kick rocks. You have to prove yourself to me not I need to mold myself to you.

If there's one thing I've learned it's being the better person and not giving in to the anger and thoughts. I know it's easier said than done but when you put it into practice it is amazing the feeling of power you have. 

To those of you who have chosen the path of R it isn't easy. Hard work and dedication to being you is most important. Because in the end you truly only have you.


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## weightlifter

I salute you. R on a PA would have been a no go for me.


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## Eleftherios

First off I'd like to say this infidelity stuff is brutal. I've been waging war with myself for going on two years.

As the time has passed I've been up and down with leave or stay.

I chose to stay mainly for my kids. 

Now after many boughts of going against my morals I've decided to divorce.

She try's and try's to make it right but the damage has been done.

If kids weren't involved I'd have been gone.

We talked about this and she is broken up about all she has done to our family.

My reaction is live and learn and go talk to him about it. I'm not interested in hearing any of the bull that you have to say.

Surprisingly she is being very amicable about it.

She hasn't went after my pension alimony or anything. She said she's hurt our family enough and by taking those things will only hurt our kids in the end.

On a happy note by contacting his employer he subsequently was fired 

He called me shortly after and tried to make me feel guilty for that.

My answer to him was play with fire get burned.

He had to take a lower paying job and was struggling to make his monthly bills and feed his two small children.

I must say I feel very empowered by taking my emotions and morals back.

We have a couple months left on the states rules for making the divorce final. They require 90 days for a cool off period.


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## convert

I have seen a lot on hear at about the 2 year mark go with D.

I am at about 18 months.

Glad the OM was fired


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## Eleftherios

convert said:


> I have seen a lot on hear at about the 2 year mark go with D.
> 
> I am at about 18 months.
> 
> Glad the OM was fired


And where are you at with it if you don't mind me asking. I know for me when I finally woke my arse up my boughts of anger and shame and so forth just went away. Trust me I really battled myself over this. I'm not saying I'm the best person on the planet but I know the difference between right and wrong and my inner code is one of a righteous nature.


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## convert

I am struggling through R. I don't know if it will work.
I have seen myself become more indifferent to my ww.


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## imjustwatching

why the sudden change you said she was very remorsful ?. What happend exactly? what was the moment that truly made you decide to file for a divorce ?


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## Eleftherios

That's the way I started to feel also. It has to be one of the worse feelings. To look at the person you invested so much time and effort onto just mean nothing is weird. Stay strong my friend. My best wishes to you this coming holiday. I know they're different now but make the most out of them. I know I let her and the OMs behavior ruin it for me at first but I took it back and left them in the dust. I'm happy for me and my kids she can kick rocks.


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## Roselyn

I thought that you have decided to reconcile. Have you decided to divorce instead? Just need some clarification on your stance.


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## Eleftherios

Roselyn said:


> I thought that you have decided to reconcile. Have you decided to divorce instead? Just need some clarification on your stance.


I was going through the reconciliation. As time has passed and I took a good long look at things and my feelings and stopped going against who I really am I decided to divorce. I chose to invoke my right of rescission.


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## Eleftherios

imjustwatching said:


> why the sudden change you said she was very remorsful ?. What happend exactly? what was the moment that truly made you decide to file for a divorce ?


She had been doing all the right things. It was nothing she was doing that brought about my change of heart. The exact reason I filed was I couldn't deny myself happiness any longer. The relationship was doing ok but it would never be the same. Ten years from now I'd still be questioning and life is too short. The moment that made me decide was waking up and looking at her and not having any feelings toward her. My shrink said that's how it usually happens. You go through the trials and tribulations and one day you decide yeah it's no longer worth it.


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## G.J.

Tragic shame after investing all the heartache over the last couple of years but you know what you want and where you want to be and if you aren't happy then.....

Don't envy you having to start fresh investing in an unknown who may or may not cheat as it sounds as certain as anything can be, your wife wouldn't cheat again


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## LongWalk

Does your wife still harbor hopes of reconciliation after divorce?

Are you hoping to meet someone new?

Has your wife become a better person?

Must be hard for your sons. Boys don't like thinking of their mother's in a sexual context. The idea of mom going after strange is pretty horrible for them.

Glad OM suffered. Did his wife divorce him?


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## GusPolinski

So very sad...

...and yet completely understandable.

Be advised, though... this may very well turn out to be a temporary feeling...



Eleftherios said:


> She had been doing all the right things. It was nothing she was doing that brought about my change of heart. The exact reason I filed was I couldn't deny myself happiness any longer. The relationship was doing ok but it would never be the same. Ten years from now I'd still be questioning and life is too short. *The moment that made me decide was waking up and looking at her and not having any feelings toward her.* My shrink said that's how it usually happens. *You go through the trials and tribulations and one day you decide yeah it's no longer worth it.*


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## warlock07

Eleftherios said:


> Well the truth shall set you free. She finally cracked. It started last year around september she had sex with him three times twice in hotel once in family car. It all came to light after I called OM on his cell. He didn't answer of course and I left a message that if he didn't call within an hour I was calling his job. I called his job and spoke to person in office. They said he wasn't in and could they help. I said yes this is the girls husband that Joe is f#^*|king. I told him to tell joe to man the f up and answer his phone. I was going to get his side and compare notes. Well I texted STBXW that I had called and talked to him and he told me a completely different story. I didn't really speak to him. She told everything. I didn't believe her story but when investigating the number didn't show till january. Last time they got together. I forgot we changed cell providers prior. That's what threw me off. The divorce is going full steam ahead ow. No looking back. She wants R badly. Was crying and asking for me to try. Negative ghost rider. She said she realizes she truly loves me and wants to be with me. The short texts from him as blowing her off was because he's married with kids and was with her at the time. Guy in office doesn't want to get in the middle and tell OMW. I will try to let her know. The best part is I called OMs cell on way into work and he no longer has a greeting with his name. Did they fire him that fast? Angry guy calling office looking for him jeopardizing safety of other staff? I won't hurt the guy was just gonna talk to him. His Karma was served by me. Feels pretty damn good.
> 
> As far as me taking it well I have too. My kids need me. I make myself not let it get me down. I cant sink into depression. I feel very relieved to know the truth now. I'm working nights and she is home packing as I type. Told her the divorce comes first then she needs to fix herself while I fix myself. Then if I can stand the sight of her we'll talk. She wouldn't come on here. She doesn't want to be judged. Then she was telling me I shouldn't listen to what you folks have to say. But every thing I read was right. And I knew she was lying. I'm not stupid. Tough times ahead for me. Losing the thing you love most hurts. But I'm strong and I know I'll make it.


Lies after lies after lies....will kill love


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## chaos

How are the boys doing? They're 16 and 18 right? Have you provided individual counseling for them?


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## LongWalk

To bad Mach is longer with us to talk about the biology of cheating. Women who have passed their genes on with mate one have an incentive to do it with mate number two if they can get away with it undetected. This allows her genes variety.

The move for mate number two becomes more anxious as fertility draws to a close. Your wife's selfish genes gambled and lost.

You can marry again to a younger woman. Probably you don't want more children, but the selfish gene desire for a younger woman is an expression of nature at work.


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## Eleftherios

chaos said:


> How are the boys doing? They're 16 and 18 right? Have you provided individual counseling for them?


The boys are actually doing well thank you. They've been to counseling and he informed me that in spite of all things they are doing remarkably well.


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## Eleftherios

LongWalk said:


> Does your wife still harbor hopes of reconciliation after divorce?
> 
> Are you hoping to meet someone new?
> 
> Has your wife become a better person?
> 
> Must be hard for your sons. Boys don't like thinking of their mother's in a sexual context. The idea of mom going after strange is pretty horrible for them.
> 
> Glad OM suffered. Did his wife divorce him?


She hopes we'll get back together but at this juncture I didn't see it.
No one new. Really not concerned about women right now. Had enough of that drama for now.

Don't know his marital status. I know for a fact he was fired.


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## Eleftherios

G.J. said:


> Tragic shame after investing all the heartache over the last couple of years but you know what you want and where you want to be and if you aren't happy then.....
> 
> Don't envy you having to start fresh investing in an unknown who may or may not cheat as it sounds as certain as anything can be, your wife wouldn't cheat again


I didn't think she would cheat to begin with so that theory goes right out the window.

I invested the time in R to try and salvage a two parent home for my kids. I'm a product of a broken home and I tried to have that be different for my boys.

As far as another woman in my life for the moments can say not a chance. Should one day I meet another who is worthy then yeah I'll give it a go. I will never remarry though.


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## Eleftherios

warlock07 said:


> Lies after lies after lies....will kill love


That had a very strong impact during this whole ordeal.


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## commonsenseisn't

Sad story. 

This thread reinforces to my psyche that almost always the correct response to an adulterous spouse is a swift and decisive divorce. 

I believe if reconciliation can be attained it will have the best chance of success after the divorce. 

Many have expended much time and energy in working on a reconciliation that will just never work. 

It's great that some folks have success, but I'm afraid most don't.


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## Wolfman1968

Eleftherios said:


> First off I'd like to say this infidelity stuff is brutal. I've been waging war with myself for going on two years.
> 
> As the time has passed I've been up and down with leave or stay.
> 
> I chose to stay mainly for my kids.
> 
> Now after many boughts of going against my morals I've decided to divorce.
> 
> She try's and try's to make it right but the damage has been done.
> 
> If kids weren't involved I'd have been gone.
> 
> We talked about this and she is broken up about all she has done to our family.
> 
> My reaction is live and learn and go talk to him about it. I'm not interested in hearing any of the bull that you have to say.
> 
> Surprisingly she is being very amicable about it.
> 
> She hasn't went after my pension alimony or anything. She said she's hurt our family enough and by taking those things will only hurt our kids in the end.
> 
> On a happy note by contacting his employer he subsequently was fired
> 
> He called me shortly after and tried to make me feel guilty for that.
> 
> My answer to him was play with fire get burned.
> 
> He had to take a lower paying job and was struggling to make his monthly bills and feed his two small children.
> 
> I must say I feel very empowered by taking my emotions and morals back.
> 
> We have a couple months left on the states rules for making the divorce final. They require 90 days for a cool off period.



Well, I hope for the best for you, man.

We are here if you need us. You might. The feelings and the complications don't automatically end with the divorce; they just change.


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## happyman64

commonsenseisn't said:


> Sad story.
> 
> This thread reinforces to my psyche that almost always the correct response to an adulterous spouse is a swift and decisive divorce.
> 
> I believe if reconciliation can be attained it will have the best chance of success after the divorce.
> 
> Many have expended much time and energy in working on a reconciliation that will just never work.
> 
> It's great that some folks have success, but I'm afraid most don't.


When the WS and BS truly work together, respect each other and still love each other there can be a positive outcome. Reconciliation.

But when the respect is not therefor either spouse and the marriage well there is another outcome.. Divorce.

When a Wayward trickle truths for a long period of time (weeks/months) then most often we see Divorce. The respect is not there. The trust cannot be restored with the continued lies.

The love a BS has for their WS diminishes over that same period of time until the "feelings" of love are lost........

We have seen it time after time in TAM.

Who wants to stay in a relationship with a person they cannot trust?

No one.

HM


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## carmen ohio

Eleftherios,

Yours is an amazingly informative thread. It exposes better than many the struggle of a BH who attempts reconciliation, the difficulty of a WW in trying to overcome the harm she has inflicted on her family, and the uncertainty of reconciliation despite both their best intentions. Among other things, it shows that the trajectory of the BH's emotions often ends, not it animus toward the WW, but indifference.

It should be required reading for any BH contemplating reconciliation.

A question: did the fact that your FWW continued to have contact with the OM at work have any bearing on your eventual decision to divorce her?


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## Eleftherios

A question: did the fact that your FWW continued to have contact with the OM at work have any bearing on your eventual decision to divorce her?

He was an outside contractor who maintained there server and computers. She only had contact with him once after DDay. Ironically it was the Monday following DDay. I found out on a Saturday. He was fired shortly after. He hasn't been in the picture since then.

That had no impact on my decision.


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## drifting on

Eleftherios

Although I joined TAM in September of 2013 I began lurking well before then. I remember reading your thread and how devastated you were. Your thread made me realize how much I was going to be hurting in the near future. My anniversary is April and I triggered the afternoon of our anniversary. My gut had been screaming well before this but I couldn't find the smoking gun. My d-day was January 20, 2014. We are currently in Reconciliation and WW is doing everything right. Now that I see internally you never healed has me skeptical if we will make it.

I'm so sorry that you have had to go through this. I wish you peace and happiness in your life ahead. Stay strong.


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## chaos

I've often wondered why more betrayed spouses don't take this approach - divorce first but continue to live together. It has the advantages of showing the cheating spouse that the betrayed is nobody's Plan B, and strong enough to move on with his/her life. And if the cheating spouse truly wants to regain his/her betrayed spouse's trust, he/she will have to endure a limbo state for an undetermined amount of time until the betrayed has recovered and is willing to recommit to the former cheater.


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## Suspecting2014

Some times even when the WS is doing everything, the BS just cant make it through R.

This is not a exact science, a lot of factors, besides the adultery, play an important role, as could be:

How was the marriage before the A,
How you discovered,
How many time passed,
How many lies,
WS protecting AP,
and on and on and on...

The reality is that every A is unique and the weight BS and WS put in each factor is different from other cases.

In a few words, R is not for everyone, even when all the steps are follow and everybody is willing to do even more!

R is not a must, is a daily gift that BS gives to WS! It is OK to stop giving this gift if BS doesnt feel like.


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## Eleftherios

R is not a must, is a daily gift that BS gives to WS! It is OK to stop giving this gift if BS doesnt feel like.

So true my fellow TAM'er. Its not that I didn't heal internally I just felt this isn't for me. I have no inner turmoil any longer. 

While going through R I put it back on her to be the one to prove herself. I changed a few things about myself mainly better communication. Honestly she is a wonderful person. But it all goes back to the trust. For example when the zombies come I know my sons and I have each others back her on the otherhand I'd think she'd through me under the bus.


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## GusPolinski

Eleftherios said:


> R is not a must, is a daily gift that BS gives to WS! It is OK to stop giving this gift if BS doesnt feel like.
> 
> So true my fellow TAM'er. Its not that I didn't heal internally I just felt this isn't for me. I have no inner turmoil any longer.
> 
> While going through R I put it back on her to be the one to prove herself. I changed a few things about myself mainly better communication. Honestly she is a wonderful person. But it all goes back to the trust. *For example when the zombies come I know my sons and I have each others back her on the otherhand I'd think she'd through me under the bus.*


That's... probably untrue. In fact, I'd be willing to go on record and say that it isn't. Hell, I'd even put my personal survival cache on it. 

I get what you're saying, though... trust is much easier to earn than it is to mend.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Eleftherios said:


> But it all goes back to the trust. For example when the zombies come I know my sons and I have each others back her on the otherhand I'd think she'd through me under the bus.


You wouldn't have to run faster than the zombies, just faster than her. 

I'm of course only kidding.


To me, these are the saddest endings. When the WS actually does what they need to do(and some times more) to have a chance at a successful R, but the damage turns out to be to severe.

If my ex had truly wanted to R and even had done all the right things, I believe that eventually, I would have D her any way.

Sometimes there's just no going back once that trust has been broken.

No one wins and all for what... The hindsight of what she's lost for breaking that trust will haunt her for many years to come.


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## Squeakr

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> No one wins and all for what... The hindsight of what she's lost for breaking that trust will haunt her for many years to come.


Or so you would like to hope. I sometimes hope the same fate at some point falls upon my STBXW, but the way she is living and interacting, I don't see it as ever happening. She is just to justified in her mind with her actions and is building a group of friends based upon that belief so that she never has to address the issues.


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## Eleftherios

So true that the trust is hard to mend. 

She beats herself up over the damage she has caused in our family.

Her father is very disappointed in her actions and that weighs heavy upon her.


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## happyman64

It should weigh heavily on her.

And her fathers disappointment weighs on her more that your disappointment ever will.

We all have different capacities to forgive.

Some forgiveness might be for the sex or the affair. Other forgiveness might extend to a true R between spouses.

Other forgiveness might extend to a Divorce. You forgive her for the infidelity but you will never be able to trust her again.

Or so you think.

I think it is good that you know how you feel and have chosen to act.

Go be happy. 

HM


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## G.J.

Who knows, if you keep in contact you may ......well feelings change, people change who knows what will happen in 6 months or so...heck even next week


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## the guy

So you fell out of love with your old lady...can't blame you!

One morning you wake up, look at her, and realize it isn't worth it....

I'm going on 5 yrs of R and yet to have that moment. I figure if it comes it comes, but as of now so much has changed with the kids gone and being empty nesters me and the old lady are so much different, our lives are so much different compared to back in the day when she was screwing around.

I guess as long as my old lady keeps building the trust back I'm going to keep her around and share the moments with her....our youngest is graduating college next year and my oldest is going to give us our first grand son this spring.

When I was the 2 yr mark after d day me and the old lady were good but I did have my moment but the my oldest's marriage came up and being at the wedding as a family made it "worth it"!

If I'm correct your kids are almost 18 and 20.....there is still so much you and your STBXW will share so keep it as amicable as you can.....and that may be even more difficult to do then recommit to R.

I wonder if my time will come when I wake up one morning, look over at my old lady, and decide it's not worth it?


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## Eleftherios

Time is a strange bird. 
I still love her but the crazy I'll do all theses special things kind of love isn't there.
As far as the marriages of my kids and grandchildren and such I harbor no ill will and seeing other family members going through life after divorce and special occasions it's not too weird. 
My boys are 19 and 16. They seem to be doing ok. The tension between my WW and I has faded and the eggshells we walked on have turned back into solid ground.
An example of life after divorce my sister and I were hanging out one day and our ex brother in law comes strolling past. I've seen him around town and have spoken to him previous this was my sisters first time. She says what should I do? I said just say hello and act normal. He's not a part of our lives anymore but he still played a part in it. It's not like he's the devil. 
I remember the good times of my life and dont dwell on the bad.
Yes this is a raw deal but remember she dealt the hand and I just played my cards. The house won this time but aces are in my favor after the reshuffling of the deck. 
We've both lost and suffered but she has to carry this forever I have the luxury of taking the loss and pushing on. 
I don't have to face people and know I wrecked my life over some guy who in the end wasn't worth the effort.
Everyday I flourish and she no longer gets to reap the rewards.


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## Eleftherios

the guy said:


> So you fell out of love with your old lady...can't blame you!
> 
> One morning you wake up, look at her, and realize it isn't worth it....
> 
> I'm going on 5 yrs of R and yet to have that moment. I figure if it comes it comes, but as of now so much has changed with the kids gone and being empty nesters me and the old lady are so much different, our lives are so much different compared to back in the day when she was screwing around.
> 
> I guess as long as my old lady keeps building the trust back I'm going to keep her around and share the moments with her....our youngest is graduating college next year and my oldest is going to give us our first grand son this spring.
> 
> When I was the 2 yr mark after d day me and the old lady were good but I did have my moment but the my oldest's marriage came up and being at the wedding as a family made it "worth it"!
> 
> If I'm correct your kids are almost 18 and 20.....there is still so much you and your STBXW will share so keep it as amicable as you can.....and that may be even more difficult to do then recommit to R.
> 
> I wonder if my time will come when I wake up one morning, look over at my old lady, and decide it's not worth it?



My question to you: Are the feelings as strong as before? Does it feel 99.9 % or the full monty? 

My feelings are no longer as strong as before. I'd walk through fire before now I'll wait for the fire department.


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## the guy

Full monty.

In my case, back in the day, I would have pushed my wife into the fire to put it out.

I went through some changes after slapping her a round for years. It was after these changes that I saw she was actually phucking around on me. I guess my old anger issues really blinded me subconciously that's how I dealt with her infidelity.

It got to a point were all our crap we did to each other had to stop and we both made a commitment to these changes and we started to fall in love again...well I actually fell in love with her..

23 years ago IDK why I married her.....but here it is now and it works.

I'm not sure what happened but I know I didn't want to be the kind of guy I was becoming. It was up to my old lady to come a long or not. it was her choice to reap the rewards of my changes or not.

But again I made this change and I wasn't going to go back to my old ways...not for her or anyone else for that matter.


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## the guy

Eleftherios said:


> My question to you: Are the feelings as strong as before? .


I didn't have feeling before.


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## the guy

I guess anger is a feeling.


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## Eleftherios

The guy

I happy for you. Like I said time is a strange bird and at this point I don't see us together. I don't have a crystal ball and my future just as all others is the future. I'm glad you've made the changes and have proceeded to make it right with yourself and the old lady. You must be older because I haven't heard the term old lady in years. I'm from a blue collar background and most of the cats I hung out with were older and vietnam vets. Good dudes that taught me a lot. Merry christmas to you and your family. I'm here in the Midwest. Built a hockey rink this year and I'm watching it fill. Me and the boys will be having a blast. The bottom is supposed to drop out on the temps here this weekend. Should be taking slapshots by Monday. I was riding my Harley today. Fifty degrees in December hell ya. And congrats on the grandson.


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## the guy

Grow up skating in the Midwest but live in SoCal and having a heat wave...80 degrees right now.

Santa will be showing up on a surf board...hopefully he gives me a new laser level or one of those range finder/laser tapes......IDK if I'm getting to old or just to lazy to pull out my tape measure:lol:


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## Eleftherios

the guy said:


> Grow up skating in the Midwest but live in SoCal and having a heat wave...80 degrees right now.
> 
> Santa will be showing up on a surf board...hopefully he gives me a new laser level or one of those range finder/laser tapes......IDK if I'm getting to old or just to lazy to pull out my tape measure:lol:


Not lazy just more efficient. I'm a carpenter by trade and the gizmos they have now make my life a lot easier. :smthumbup:

Santa on a surfboard now that's my kinda Christmas


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## carmen ohio

Eleftherios said:


> . . . Honestly *she is a wonderful person.* But it all goes back to the trust. For example when the zombies come I know my sons and I have each others back her on the otherhand I'd think *she'd through me under the bus.*


These statements don't jibe. :scratchhead:


----------

