# Hate hate hate.



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

So did I fail to mention to you all how much I HATE my life right now seriously. I am destroying everything good because I have soooo much hate inside so much hate. what do you do about that I feel like I want to explode with ANGER.


----------



## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

sunny,,

forgiveness. this is the only answer. Forgive him/her... doing this is not for them, it is not done for their benefit.. it's totally for you..

You have to forgive, in order to let go... 

I know your hubby hurt you, and so did your best friend. They kissed, more than once, this was a horrible betrayel by both of them. You are angry because you feel you've been hurt, and you didn't deserve this. You didn't, you have been hurt and you're entitled to feel sad, angry...

the feelings of hatred will eat you alive if you let them. 

You will have to have the strength to forgive, this is the only way you will be free of the hate and anger.

try it.... 

It's not about excusing what your hubby did, or what she did. You dont' even have to say anything to either of them, unless you want to

Forgive them in your own heart. Resolve to put this behind you and forgive. You will never forget, and that is okay. You might still struggle with trusting your hubby,and that is okay.... don't ever deny your feelings.

But the hate, the anger... it has to be let go, before it controls you. The easiest way to accomplish this, is to forgive. Does that mean you sit by and let him do this again? No course not..

But forgive past wrongs. The past is the past.. let it be. And let your heart live and be happy again...


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

Forgiveness and COUNSELING. You are DEFINITELY at the stage of hate/anger/crazyness that requires counseling. 

Marina is right, the only answer to relieving the anger is forgiveness. If you hold it in and never forgive him, you, as I have told you many times, will ruin your marriage.

If you can't forgive on your own, then you need to seek out some counseling.

If you can't do either of those then maybe divorce is the only answer...but you may then hate yourself for letting a good thing (your husband) go.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

I KNOW ughh I know maybe I really should go back into counseling you know I just think that I need help to deal with all my feelings and emotionally I am a wreck then I am great. I HATE IT. I am letting everything get to me and anytime something bad happends it always turns to this there is just something that I cant let go of? I dont know what it is maybe I just lost a peice of me in this thing that happend I dont know? I dont know what I need.


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

Sun,

How long since the incident, time is what matters if its been a yr (good rule) time to move on.

Trust me the demon can grow, yes counseling and drugs to make you feel good. They simply are masks as you are the victim.

Forgivness is your control, nobody else. I could/would not forget.

The alternative is to end it, and then go for life with gusto.

You know now what you have, leave the possibilities are yours.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

You are saying that I should leave? It all happend last halloween and I found out this halloween so... Its fresh. Its grade school crap to you maybe but it wasnt just about a kiss ans A$$ grab it was trust lies secrets. thats what hurts. But he didnt want to lose me and she didnt either. WHAT TO DO?


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

Sun,

Before you judge, read my post grade school if so I have a PHD in such matters.
Summer 1981 it’s a hot one in Brooklyn, the wife of 7 years expresses honey need some time to relax as a mother. I granted her the freedom to be with her girlfriends. Well, this freedom was to be the entire summer of 1980.
I noticed her demeanor changed she became so loving prior to going out for the evening. Why can I cook you a meal, I gave daughter a bath etc. I do not know but a feeling came over me something wasn't right. Why anybody here who underwent this knows this and the yearning to ask. Then I guess guilt or who knows what but one night she literally called out in her sleep "Ohhh Gregory".
I then asked her a week later "have you been cheating" she responded yes it was a guy called "Gregory" to whom she met dancing. The nightly freedom trysts became a habit. My wife would go dancing at club, dancing with Gregory, drinking, diner then to his place for intercourse. Then back home to play mommy/wife again.
Well, I guess the next 4 months was the usual thing for a cheated on spouse. The rage, anger, hate and the feeling's to forgive. There would be no sex, love and minimum talking.
Then the big explosion (LEARNING FOR THE FORUM). It became apparent the neighborhood, friends, relatives knew about the affair. So not was the affair private (or a so called one night fling) it was the discussion of many persons. The trysts became an alternate life by wife. I was to be pitied by women and laughed at by men. This came back to me via acquaintances over the years since this period.
FORUM: OVER THE YEARS LEARNED THIS IS A FACTOR IN DECISION MAKING TO STAY/LEAVE/HATE OR FORGIVE. THE CHEATING SPOUSE WAS IT A FLING IN PRIVATE, A PUBLIC AFFIAR, AND GOD WITH THE INTERNET IS YOUR LOVE ONES PICS ON A MYSPACE OF FACEBOOK SITE VIA A CELL PHONE CAMERA PICTURE.
The next 2 years there would be no sex, love, holidays (personal and calendar). There would be discussions between us; she never wanted to be completely open always stating it’s in the past why don't you forget it. I was so tired of taking care of house and child, I needed a relaxation period.
My responses were you f***** another guy, and I go to work sometimes for 16 hrs and have no thoughts of cheating on you. Then as another posted here, the man forced me to have sexual intercourse with him (THIS IS LAUGHABLE AS MANY TIMES TOLD HER TO CALL THE POLICE AND CHARGE RAPE SHE REFUSED). We supposedly are a couple I told her.
The usual was no responses.
FORUM: THE FOLLOWING OFTEN EMPLOYED BY CHEATER, WHY CAN'T YOU GET OVER IT, THE OBVIOUSLY LETS TURN IT AROUND IT’S YOUR FAULT AND THE EVER GOOD IT WAS FORCED SEX EXCUSE. THIS LEARNED OVER THE YEARS FROM MANY A PROFESSIONAL COUNSELOR.
Well, it’s now 1982 there is nothing left. I guess god intervened at this time. Go pour yourself a coffee or drink at this time.
I was driving down the street and guess whom comes out of a tavern with a man, its wife poo. I kept driving and never addressed it.
But in the coming weeks found out there would be no nightly trysts but sex replaced with behind dumpsters, junkyards or ever so convenient oral in car. This came from mutual friends, and was made factual over the years.
FORUM: ANOTHER LESSON LEARNED FROM MANY A CONSELOR; THE CHEATING SPOUSE HAS TAKEN DOWN THE BOUNDRIES OF MARRIAGE. A FORGIVEN SPOUSE MAY NOT HAVE AN AFFAIR AGIAN, BUT THE PLUMBER IS GAME FOR A ONE TIME FLING. THE EXPRESSION ONCE A CHEATOR ALWAYS A CHEATER CAN BE VERY VERY APPLICABLE WHEN YOU CONSIDER A LIFETIME TOGETHER WITHOUT BOUNDRIES.
One day as she was coming down the stairs in home, fell down the entire flight. There was to be no injury. I simply laughed out loud for a long and hard period.
At this point I simply walked out of the home with nothing but my pride intact.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya I am sorry your situation is much more crazy then mine I am not trying to play the victom I just like to come and express my feelings and thought on here I may not have situations as bad as you guys but it could have been? I just needed to vent.


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

Sun,

Please do vent, and learn via reading.

Like posted can help a person, its all worth it.

But do not be concerned, I am 28 yrs married to the love of my life.

Just to think how god's hand plays with destiny.


----------



## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

One day as she was coming down the stairs in home, fell down the entire flight. There was to be no injury. I simply laughed out loud for a long and hard period.


I understand being hurt that you were cheated on... but seriously, am I the only one that thinks this is a bit sadistic? Laughing at anyone who has just fallen down an entire flight of stairs? I am glad she was not injured,, I hope you checked to make sure she was not hurt, before you started laughing....


----------



## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I have a big rage problem, too. I started going to counseling. I read books. A break through for me was right during a time when I was starting to boil over at my H, I went to an emergency counseling session. That was about five months ago and I havent lost it since. 

Just be patient with yourself. We dont come with owners manuals. You'll have to learn one day at a time, and unfortunately it does take a lot of time.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya I hate that though time I hate it I am losing myself slowly like yesterday my daughter I had no idea it was short day she was stranded at school. UGHH then this morning I went to take her to school and NO SCHOOL OMG I just need to get my crap together. I DO. I am losing it. I need your help!


----------



## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Sunny, can you see a therapist maybe? I think talking about this to a professional might help a lot.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya I went to see a therapist and I think it was ok I am not really sure what my issue is? I dont know if I just need those success story's or someone to relate to or what I need.


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

One day as she was coming down the stairs in home, fell down the entire flight. There was to be no injury. I simply laughed out loud for a long and hard period.


I understand being hurt that you were cheated on... but seriously, am I the only one that thinks this is a bit sadistic? Laughing at anyone who has just fallen down an entire flight of stairs? I am glad she was not injured,, I hope you checked to make sure she was not hurt, before you started laughing.... 


To this day, those 61 seconds was all my demons set free and to me being totally empowered over the situation and life. The counseling and drugs the wasted 2 years of trying to forgive/forget. I have used many years the subject of self destruction in the endeavor to understand the rational of affirs, why not get a divorce and the world is yours. Then go run to your lover and take it all.

Sadistic, is a person to whom looks back never really forgiving/forgetting and regrets a life long indecision. Yes, and that is 78% of spouses that elect to push under the mat and move on. So unless somebody has created a life back in which the lost years can be recovered this is sadistic.

Acually all happened in 61 seconds.

Boom, boom crash and thud (3 seconds)
Silence (10 seconds)
You Ok (2 seconds)
Yes (1 second)
Laughing so hard (20 seconds)
She staring at me in disbelief (10 seconds)
Walking to door opening and ever going back (15 seconds).

Trust me, I have known for 28 yrs this fall would be nothing to what was to be issed by a higher authority. 

Lost house
Lost car
Lost montetary worth
Lover became abuser husband beating for over 20 yrs.
AIDS
Illegimate child
Social services

As my counselor stated at last session, you now are whole again go seek happiness and feel free to call anytime.

We have talked over the years, she is retired and joked perhaps you need to become a professional as a victim you are beyond strong with the wisdom of living life.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya but how old are you? It seems that you just wont let go of it? I dont know. this happend years and years ago.


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

Sun,

People never let it go, put in the past. Then a movie or personal event or even spouse wants to go out without you reignites the memories.

I have used it for strength, it has made me so strong.

However haved studied it for the actions has caused so many the lives and familes. The destructive nature of it go's past any crime.

Once you drill past today hype, its a interesting subject matter to study and help people.

I am 58 and quite well.

Thank you.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Well I think that they let it go they and learn from it but they dont dwell on it FOREVER thats not healthy! But..... Then again I have NEVER been there.


----------



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm so happy you are seeing this.... 

*"Ya but how old are you? It seems that you just wont let go of it? I dont know. this happend years and years ago."* 

Don't let yourself become this person! You don't want to be talking about these events 30 years down the line. "Demons, Sadistic, Victim, Destruction"...these are the words spoken over and over in this gentleman's posts...EVERYDAY! This is what an obsession will do to you. He's been married to a different woman for 28 years, yet he is here everyday talking about the affairs of 30 years ago. That would scare me enough to really start changing my head around. Don't become this!

Get back into counseling. Go back to your therapist and let him/her help you figure out what the core problem is...why you are still holding on to everything unable to let go.

Get up every morning and decide that you will not give in to this obsession today. Instead of getting p!ssed off at all these people and the things they have done, get p!ssed that you are spending precious time on it AGAIN. Take those hateful and angry feelings out at the gym...go dig and plant a garden...do something physical.

CALL YOUR THERAPIST TODAY.

Please remember....when you start obsessing about these things that you cannot change...you are making the choice to become a bitter, hateful, angry person. You don't want to be the victim 30 years from now.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Oh I know I was SOOOO mad at myself this morning for letting things slip threw the cracks and letting my life slip away. Also looking at stupid face book at the ex friend looking like life is great and we matterd nothing at all to them. And here I am obsessing it. stupid STUPID. makes me so mad. Makes me feel worst that I was nill. to her and it makes me mad to think that my H did that with her because she is a peace of crap. Then I think wow he is into people like that I dont like that at all.then my mind goes you know what I mean. I dont know then I think always what he says about he didnt find her attractive well sorry but would you kiss someone you werent attracted to?


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya I think that I do need to call the therapist!


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sunflower said:


> I dont know then I think always what he says about he didnt find her attractive well sorry but would you kiss someone you werent attracted to?


I can answer that question 2 ways.

1. Yes, I have kissed someone I wasn't attracted to. At least 2 women/girls in HS and college that weren't attractive but I did kiss them. So yes, its most definitely possible to kiss someone you aren't attracted to.

2. How about the rebuttal question, "Would you play strip poker with people you weren't attracted to?"

I have played strip poker just a few times outside of my marriage (with wife), all of them were obviously before I was married, but there is no doubt, the girls I played with I was attracted to. At least 1 or 2 of them that I wanted to see naked.


----------



## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

sunflower said:


> Also looking at stupid face book at the ex friend looking like life is great and we matterd nothing at all to them.


I would suggest de-friending them on facebook - having a constant reminder every time you login doesn't help anyone...


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

revitalizedhusband said:


> I can answer that question 2 ways.
> 
> 1. Yes, I have kissed someone I wasn't attracted to. At least 2 women/girls in HS and college that weren't attractive but I did kiss them. So yes, its most definitely possible to kiss someone you aren't attracted to.
> 
> ...





Ok So you think that you would play with people you wanted to see and get a thrill right so he did kiss and and rub her ass so isnt that a thrill I mean you dont mistakenly do that right.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

TNgirl232 said:


> I would suggest de-friending them on facebook - having a constant reminder every time you login doesn't help anyone...


I know but I dont want to be rude you know and make a enemy


----------



## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

You sound like a typically southern girl  - they may have done me wrong but I hate to hurt "their" feelings. I understand that as I am that way...but your own mental health is more important than their feelings.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

HAHA ya half southern half swedish GREAT COMBO huh!


----------



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

WHAT? You don't want to make an enemy? WTF????

First.... "Also looking at stupid face book at the ex friend looking like life is great and we matterd nothing at all to them." ....How do you really know what she is feeling/thinking? You absolutely don't know! She's making the choice to live her life...whatever that entails. Some of the things she has done have really sucked! Some of the things you, and her, and her husband have done have really sucked! Everyone in this situation has screwed up. You are the only one stuck in it. You are making the choice to allow her to have power over what you think, feel, say, do, etc, etc. What did looking at her facebook page get you today? YOU are making the choices to stay in this angry place you find yourself in. You turned on the computer and pushed the appropriate buttons to get you there. She is done, your husband is done, YOU keep walking yourself right back into it. You made the choice.

Take her off your friends list. Who freakin' cares what she thinks about it? YOU will be making a positive choice and heading in a positive direction. Take her off all your lists, out of all your address books, put pictures away and just erase her for awhile. You know that you cannot resist the temptation sometimes to email, text, facebook, look at a picture....so take the temptation away. 

I heard on the radio this morning.... "No one is promised tomorrow" and for some reason it really struck me today. Too much sh*t going on in the news. My husband is a police officer....will he come home tomorrow? I have a 3 year old. I don't want to miss a second of her! It really hit me that I need to do everything I can for them today. Not to the extreme, but really BE here with them. I sometimes get caught up in stuff that needs to be done...my to-do-list. I will put them off saying...'in just a minute'. But what happens if I don't have a tomorrow? Sorry....little depressing....but for some reason I guess I needed my own little wake up call and that statement on the radio resonated with me. I even thought of you and your family when I heard it. Don't make choices based on what others may think. Make your choices based on what is best for your daughters!


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sunflower said:


> Ok So you think that you would play with people you wanted to see and get a thrill right so he did kiss and and rub her ass so isnt that a thrill I mean you dont mistakenly do that right.


Did you not read my first part?

I have, as a guy, kissed girls that I wasn't necessarily attracted to. You have to remember, that kissing typically means MUCH less to a guy than a girl.


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

Great post MsStacy, great post.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

You guys Promise you would tell me if he was not worth sticking around for? And you really dont think that he wanted her? Ughhh If complete strangers are telling me this then I will know cause you know you wont get the truth outa someone that knows you personally.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Great post though really you are right LIFE is so short.


----------



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

Thank you RH! I keep thinking something we say will finally get through.

Sunflower....let me give you a little bit of my experience. I don't have the experience of a sexually cheating spouse. But I have the experience of being cheated and losing total and complete trust in my husband.

_(You know what the middle said.....I decided to delete it so it doesn't stay in internet land forever)_

So to my point...it doesn't go away....I won't forget. This could have ruined us. After the second time, I felt justified in leaving him if I wanted to. (and there were moments I really wanted to!) But I made a choice....I didn't want to be angry at him all the time...it sucked too much energy out of me. I didn't want to be distrustful of him every minute of every day. I didn't want to keep making excuses to my friends and family about why I was so quiet. I did not want to live like that. And so I had to make an effort every day to look at him and think of something different...something good. I changed my thoughts around. I made choices that this wasn't going to destroy us. There was nothing he could have done.....I knew he was sorry. He knew that he could never get on top of that pedestal that I used to have him on. He knew some things would never be repaired. But he gave me the time and the space to work through it in my own way, and he took some of my abuse. We went to counseling, and I made choices.

This second time happened almost exactly a year ago. It consumed my thoughts for maybe 2-3 months. But I was the one missing out on being happy. It truly drained the life out of me....the anger, the angst, the all-consuming thoughts, the what-ifs, the 'how could he's', all of it! I decided I was over it. Nothing could be done to change it, there are no do-overs. 

Sounds easy, but it takes work. You can make the same decisions, you can make the choices that get you over it. It doesn't happen over-night, but it can happen faster than you expect it to if you continue to make positive choices one after the other. Don't go to the facebook page...decide to do something different. Don't think about husband's betrayal, think of something nice he has done since. Don't think of how life sucks right now...turn on the news and be happy you and your family aren't one of those stories tonight. Don't think about what has happened in the past, think about today and remember no one has promised you a tomorrow.


----------



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

I have never thought that he wanted her. I promise I would tell you if that is what I thought. I think you have put your husband through so much the last couple months... he has really proven to you that he's worth a second chance.


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

Bravo,

To your decision, its good for you.

There are others of the different mindset that is in need of support.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya I am very proud of your choice to! to keep it in your marriage and help him through that. Its hard addictions will take you under. I am glad that you guys are doing well. And thank you for being honest with me and seeing that what he is saying isnt bs. Cause I really do think people think that. And in all this I worry about HIS credibility. weird I know. But thank you! and relly good choice you made.


----------



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

That is a big reason why I never told anyone. Also because they will have opinions that they don't have to live with the results. The people you know may say leave him...but will they be there to take you in? To actually live out that decision? No...just you.


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

And the opposite too, to stay and regret it.

Its a deep personal decision one must weigh.

Forum nor friends nor counselors can make it.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya it sucks cause when I first found out I wanted to tell everyone I was so upset and I wanted them to know how horrible of people they are. NOW I wish I didnt.


----------



## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

sunflower!

Why is this thread called "Hate hate hate"?
Who do you hate most? Yourself?

There is only one thing that will make you feel better, but maybe you need a friend to do it with: Sit down, and just feel these feelings. Feel them. Stop running away. They're your own feelings. They were triggered by your husband's behaviour it's true, but the feelings are yours and yours alone. They are not real. They do not mean anything. They are just feelings.

Unfortunately many people make the mistake of thinking that feelings have a meaning. They don't. They are just sensations in the body. I'm not saying that feelings can't warn you of danger. But this is not your situation. You are having intense feelings, and trying to make them mean something. They don't mean anything. They are just shadows cast by your mind. There are reasons for them erupting, but you're not seeing those reasons. You're just seeing red!

Relaxation classes might help you a lot. Can you find a good group to attend? It would be better than going round and round in circles.


----------



## reidqa (Mar 25, 2009)

Use the anger to ffed your strength, never give it up.

It will protect you, and if need be support you if you decide it is over.

So did I fail to mention to you all how much I HATE my life right now seriously. I am destroying everything good because I have soooo much hate inside so much hate. what do you do about that I feel like I want to explode with ANGER.


----------



## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

sunflower, after all the posts, all the PMs back and forth, if you don't think I'm being 100% honest with you by now, then just stop reading my typed words .

I don't think he really wanted that woman, I have told you many times he wanted revenge. He was 100% wrong, no doubt about it.

There's a reason the woman was the wife of the man who saw you naked in the strip poker game. Think about it, the revenge was 2 fold, on him for seeing you naked (your H kissed his W), and on you for allowing that to happen.

Again, your H was 100% wrong, no doubt about it, but like I've said before, no more wrong than playing strip poker with another man.

He has stuck around with you through all the drama of the last few months and if that isn't PROOF that he wants/loves you then nothing will ever been good enough and you should just leave.

That's my blunt opinion.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> sunflower!
> 
> Why is this thread called "Hate hate hate"?
> Who do you hate most? Yourself?
> ...





You know what I think that I do I think that I hate myself CUASE its so stupid they are all over it I am not over it. I really think that I have a issue. Everyone went camping this weekend all his family and our friends and those two went and everyone hung out and talked like normal and was happy things were great. And here we are in the dark not hanging out. I am still holding on and they have let it all go. GOSH Its really making me so mad that I am like this seriously. WHY ME. why do I have to deal with this in my life? And I am jelous and angry that people are flocking to her and dont see her for what she is.


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

revitalizedhusband said:


> sunflower, after all the posts, all the PMs back and forth, if you don't think I'm being 100% honest with you by now, then just stop reading my typed words .
> 
> I don't think he really wanted that woman, I have told you many times he wanted revenge. He was 100% wrong, no doubt about it.
> 
> ...





Ya your right. I know that he loves me I do. I think that my struggle was that he found someone other then me sexually attractive and well DUH we all do that you know we are only human. He acted on his. And well in a way I kinda did with the poker to I guess???? I just hate how things are right now I lost my Best BEST friend I talked to her ever single day.


----------



## MsStacy (Nov 11, 2008)

:iagree: about the revenge. Good point RH.

*"And I am jelous and angry that people are flocking to her and dont see her for what she is."* 

First....people don't care. They really don't think about much of anything outside of their own lives. People do not spend the time thinking about us and juding our actions like we think they do. For the most part, we are all ego-centric. Someone might have a passing judgement when something happens, but they will not give it a second thought. It doesn't affect their personal life...They Don't Care!

Second...your H was involved in the same misbehavior she was. They both did the same thing. If they are "going to see her for what she is"...then they will have to pass judgement on your H too. Now...I'm not excusing anything....girlfriends don't do that to eachother. It's in the rules, we all know that. But putting all that aside....do you really want these "people" judging her? I know....you just want her to go away for awhile. Tell his family and your friends that. I believe everyone knows what happened, so everyone should understand.

If his family is camping and hanging out with this couple, then maybe you and your H should have a talk with them. Maybe you guys could ask that the next trip you would like to go and would like to keep the other couple out of it. I would hope his family would be willing to do that. Better yet.....Plan your own events....get togethers....camping trips. Invite his family and the friends you want to spend time with. YOU put things together so you can get to do these things without the other couple being involved or invited. You be the one to start making the plans for awhile. Maybe others are feeling awful for being in the middle.

Have you called your therapist?


----------



## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya I think that in a way it was a combo of things and that was one of them.


----------

