# "You and I have not aged at the same rate"



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

--That's what my wife said to me last night.

After 40+ years of marriage I know this woman and I know what that means. --The sexual explosion she experienced several years ago is now over.

I'm not looking for advice _per se_, but there are some smart people on this forum and I'm curious what your thoughts are.

How do you respond to something like that?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

"Then I guess I'll have to find someone who is the correct age."


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

technovelist said:


> "Then I guess I'll have to find someone who is the correct age."


- Maybe a little harsh to go nuclear right out of the gate?

The last few years have been some of our best....


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> - Maybe a little harsh to nuclear right out of the gate?
> 
> The last few years have been some of our best....


Maybe so. However, what exactly does she mean by that? Is it the end of sex, the end of fabulous sex, or what?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> --That's what my wife said to me last night.
> 
> After 40+ years of marriage I know this woman and I know what that means. --The sexual explosion she experienced several years ago is now over.
> 
> ...


I'd ask what she's feeling, what's happening, so that I could understand better. You believe you know what it means, and you could be right, but there may be more to it than just that. What I mean is, if she's feeling less sexual, she also may suddenly be realizing that she's _aging_. That can be an emotionally difficult place for her to be. Let her describe what she's feeling and what she's anxious about.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

norajane said:


> I'd ask what she's feeling, what's happening, so that I could understand better. You believe you know what it means, and you could be right, but there may be more to it than just that. What I mean is, if she's feeling less sexual, she also may suddenly be realizing that she's _aging_. That can be an emotionally difficult place for her to be. Let her describe what she's feeling and what she's anxious about.


Thank you, norajane. Your insights are always appreciated.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Has sex recently decreased? Does she seem to enjoy your sexual relationship?

I agree that you should ask her what it means. It may be a simple statement that doesn't mean anymore than exactly how it sounds.

I wouldn't say that to my husband, but the truth is that we have not aged at the same rate. Most people think he is about his real age. Most people mistake me for about 10 years younger.

It does not bother me in the slightest that my husband looks significantly older than me. We have been married 30+ years. I expect he will continue to age. I expect that if my genetics continue to hold up, that I will age like my grandmothers and my mother; slowly.

It's not an insult. It's just a random fact. That could be the case with your wife.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> Has sex recently decreased?


Yes.



CynthiaDe said:


> Does she seem to enjoy your sexual relationship?


My wife has a pretty good time when she's in the mood, but not so much when she's not. (Which is perfectly understandable.)




CynthiaDe said:


> I wouldn't say that to my husband, but the truth is that we have not aged at the same rate.


With us, it's the exact reverse. I can do a mile in six minutes and change (Which is pretty fast at my age.) Her statement was not so much about lack of attraction as it was about lack of energy and desire.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

ocotillo said:


> --That's what my wife said to me last night.
> 
> After 40+ years of marriage I know this woman and I know what that means. --The sexual explosion she experienced several years ago is now over.
> 
> ...


"should I trade her in for a deposit on two younger models"

comments such as your wives always annoy me - I see some many self-love quotes about "seeing the world through a childs eyes" , and "I want to stay young", or even "act your age not your shoe size". wtf do you people WANT?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Oh, interesting. Yeah, I think you should speak to her about it. Does she feel that you are wearing her out? Do you think she might want to do something about it?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

How did you get that it s referring to sex? Was there more than just this one statement? To mean it would mean one of us has not aged as well as the other as in looks.

Mr H is 6 years older than me and he looks his age, very sexy for his age I must add. I look 5 to 10 years younger than my age, only started getting wrinkles at about age 46. But he is physically still that of a man 20 years younger where as I am no where near as strong as I used to be.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Holland said:


> How did you get that it s referring to sex? Was there more than just this one statement? To mean it would mean one of us has not aged as well as the other as in looks.


Holland,

Her statement was made in the context of not having the energy she used to have.

My wife has always been a night owl. 10:00PM is right around the time when she wants to open a bottle of wine, watch some obscure foreign film, experiment in the kitchen, go for walk, go to a gastropub, or just sit and talk. It has also been pretty much the only time she ever feels amorous. 

That's starting to change and we both know what that means. (Or at least I think we do....)


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It seems like you have fear and resentment built up from the sexless years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

jld said:


> It seems like you have fear and resentment built up from the sexless years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You may well be right. Elaborate please. I would like to hear more.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> You may well be right. Elaborate please. I would like to hear more.


I don't know how much I can point to specifically. I just hear bitterness (maybe even contempt?) in your posts sometimes. In the background, not right out in front. But it's there.

I get the feeling you blame her for the sexless years.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You owe It to yourself and your marriage and frankly to your wife to speak openly about this. We are all aging, and weight, drinking, smoking, disease, etc all impact our energy, interest in life, desire. Much is reversible too...

Talk about it. Tell her what you do to remain feeling young and what would happen if you stopped your routine. Ask her if she is ok with her aging process. If she is, tell her that saddens you because you will be able to enjoy many more things in the years to come that she may not. If she's not happy, then tell her it's something you would like to work on as a couple.

I recently saw a webmd article about wrinkle creams - which I always believed were a scam - and was intrigued by the assertions that they can help. I bought a $20 little tube of a nuereogena product and told my wife I'd try it on 1 side of my face and see if it works. Told her to go ahead and try it too. She was receptive and we'll see what happens.

We're low 50's but I got her to start "plan 38" with me. I decided 38 would be a good age to settle into and frankly doable - fortunately a lot of people let themselves go and have paunches and haven't worked out a long time by that age . So I am working out hard several times a week, will lose a ton of weight, hired a personal trainer. She looks good but is very weak - she says she'll take up exercise and some weights for bone strength. We're planning on reversing the clock. Fortunately I am starting out strong but obese and she is weak but thin. So we have something to work with and something to improve. 

My point is we all age. If you are fighting it maybe you can fight it together. If not then it's best to start that dialogue too. Couples can drift apart even in retirement when the differences in how you want to spend your years is more highlighted. Better to work on it over time than find yourself all of a sudden with completely different goals and self images. Good luck and hopefully she wants to work with you on this.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

jld said:


> I just hear bitterness (maybe even contempt?) in your posts sometimes.


Towards my wife?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> Towards my wife?


I think so.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> You may well be right. Elaborate please. I would like to hear more.


Dude,
You know you did something to deserve to be sexless, but your holding it against your wife. That's what she is getting at.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Am I missing something?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Oco,
I don't hear bitterness or contempt. Hurt - yes. That's normal in a long term sexually broken marriage. 

Don't get me wrong, I know you had a brief Renaissance - but - the underlying issue never got addressed. 

We all like to think we understand the stuff that we study at length. Regarding sex in marriage I believe I understand it fairly well. 

I believe that for most folks, meaning maybe 80% percent of the population - responsive desire actually works. 

But here's the thing. At risk of being simplistic there are only 2 BASIC categories of sexual relationship. 

Those that view the marital body as consisting of two entirely separate entities. This is the 'physical' view of the world. 

And the other sees a single - virtualized - marital body. 

There isn't necessarily a right and wrong to it. And sure as hell there's plenty of folks who - exploit their spousal rights. Not by criminal behavior like spousal rape. More by being selfish and unkind. 

That said - M2 has ruined me in a way. Anything ever happened to her, I'd never pair up with someone thinks that the decision to have or not have sex is purely unilateral. 

Not interested in being with someone who has such a one sided view of monogamy. 







ocotillo said:


> Towards my wife?


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

jld said:


> I think so.


I'm pawing through my mind at the things I've actually said about her on this forum. --That she's insanely intelligent; that's she's one of the nicest human beings on the plant; that she comes across in person like Patricia Jinich (Don't know if you watch the food channel or not, but if you do, then you know exactly what I'm talking about ) 

Or is it just the general tone on sexless marriage threads?


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Oco,
> I believe that for most folks, meaning maybe 80% percent of the population - responsive desire actually works.
> 
> But here's the thing. At risk of being simplistic there are only 2 BASIC categories of sexual relationship.
> ...


Apologies for being obtuse, MEM, but this seems almost cryptic.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I am only seeing reposts because I blocked JLD because she only and always blames the H for all marital issues. Sounds like the male basher strikes again!


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I am only seeing reposts because I blocked JLD because she only and always blames the H for all marital issues. Sounds like the male basher strikes again!


That was the point of my post as well.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I am only seeing reposts because I blocked JLD because she only and always blames the H for all marital issues. Sounds like the male basher strikes again!


JLD and I have some basic disagreements, but I don't come on to internet forums to be slapped on the back and be told that I'm right

I would much rather somebody disagree with me and then give a reasoned explanation.

It that respect, I welcome her input.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

TTH



TheTruthHurts said:


> Talk about it. Tell her what you do to remain feeling young and what would happen if you stopped your routine.



I would like to say that I run for the motivations you speak of, but that would be a big fat, lie.

When I was about 48 or so, I woke up at 1:00AM and something was really, really wrong. --Fluttery erratic heartbeat and pain in my chest that radiated into my jaw and left arm. 

It turned out to be acid reflux. My doctor actually laughed at me for thinking it was a heart problem. What I didn't know is that inflammation from your esophagus can spread to the lining of your heart and trigger classic heart attack symptoms even though your heart is perfectly healthy.

I took up running more out of fear than anything else and got hooked on it. It's almost a spiritual experience now. 

I think your advice about talking to my wife about this is pure gold, but it's tough when my own motivations weren't really pure.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Oco,
Sorry for being cryptic. 

If O2 is truly the nicest person you know, how come she is totally comfortable rejecting you? 

Why has she been so comfortable rejecting you for most of the marriage? 

I'm guessing is that there is absolutely no connection in her mind between expecting monogamy and showing a reasonable level of sexual commitment. 

The alternate view becomes kind of interesting. The view of a 'marital body'. In that view, health and lifestyle choices like smoking and exercise are the same as sex. They are mutual decisions. 

I would never say to M2: it's MY body. And ummm - she wouldn't say that to me. It's 'our' body. 

And yeah - my half of our body has a higher sex drive. Why we meet somewhere in the middle. I no more want her to feel used, than she wants me to feel neglected. 

--------
All that said - I do think you ought to ask O2 what she meant by her comment. 

And I also think it's ok to tell her that having sex on a sort of regular basis has a big impact on your quality of life. 



UOTE=ocotillo;14430754]Apologies for being obtuse, MEM, but this seems almost cryptic.[/QUOTE]


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> I'm pawing through my mind at the things I've actually said about her on this forum. --That she's insanely intelligent; that's she's one of the nicest human beings on the plant; that she comes across in person like Patricia Jinich (Don't know if you watch the food channel or not, but if you do, then you know exactly what I'm talking about )
> 
> Or is it just the general tone on sexless marriage threads?


I have just heard it, or thought I heard it, in the background of some of your posts. Just the impression I have gotten, I guess. 

You could ask your wife if she has ever felt any bitterness or contempt from you regarding the sexless years. Maybe she has never noticed any negativity from you at all on that subject. 

If that is the case, and you do not feel any resentment towards her for those years, nor any fear that it could happen again, then my impressions would be completely inaccurate.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> If O2 is truly the nicest person you know, how come she is totally comfortable rejecting you?


She doesn't reject. --But the difference between her being engaged and not is night and day. Its the difference between giving a two-year-old a piece of candy vs. giving them stewed carrots. Maybe it's vanity. Maybe it's a personality flaw. I have no desire myself under those circumstances. 



MEM11363 said:


> I would never say to M2: it's MY body. And ummm - she wouldn't say that to me. It's 'our' body.
> 
> And yeah - my half of our body has a higher sex drive. Why we meet somewhere in the middle. I no more want her to feel used, than she wants me to feel neglected.


That makes sense. Thanks! --Will have to think about it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Oco,

Says a huge amount about you as a person. 

Bad Santa just did a thread on responsive desire that was really good. 

Sometimes it's ok to proceed - slowly - in a expectation neutral sort of way. Eventually you hit a go/no go point. Nothing wrong with stopping - go get a glass of wine and accept you didn't reach escape velocity. 

And fwiw - I believe you have always spoken of your wife positively. 





ocotillo said:


> She doesn't reject. --But the difference between her being engaged and not is night and day. Its the difference between giving a two-year-old a piece of candy vs. giving them stewed carrots. Maybe it's vanity. Maybe it's a personality flaw. I have no desire myself under those circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank makes sense. Thanks! --Will have to think about it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> TTH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why do you say that your motivations were not pure? Running to help fix your health is about as pure as it gets.

I know from experience that getting older can be very frustrating. It often seems like no matter what I do I cannot hold it back. And in a lot of ways I cannot.

I guess when I read your OP, I took it as her expressing frustration at her body for sabotaging her... and in a lot of ways you too. I would suggest that she's very frustrated with herself. And that was what she meant.

To answer it with something as was suggested about you trading her in would be just cruel. And I do not take you to be a cruel man, not by a long shot.

Do you think that she would do things like start doing a lot of walking to improve her health? That is something that the two of you could even do together. 


.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

My wife can pass for a 30 year old easily, she is 50+. Makeup and hair color in a bottle do wonders.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Way too hard on yourself. 

I'd maybe say to O2:

Now and then, I'll initiate but I need you to know that if we - play for a while and it just isn't really working for you I'll stop. 

Only thing I ask is that you relax and let nature take its course, whatever course that ends up being. 

Takes the pressure off her to get to a specific result. 

And yes - I have some experience with this. Sometimes M2 gets a little animated about continuing. Claims that rapturing me - makes her happy. Those situations, I go with the flow..... 





ocotillo said:


> TTH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> She doesn't reject. --But the difference between her being engaged and not is night and day. Its the difference between giving a two-year-old a piece of candy vs. giving them stewed carrots. Maybe it's vanity. Maybe it's a personality flaw. I have no desire myself under those circumstances.


Fair enough. When my SO acts like I'm stewed carrots, it turns me off as well. But I also ask myself: am I stewed carrots? I may think of myself as candy, but it doesn't mean he does.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Let me just add that my SO says more or less the same sorts of things to me: he is getting older, slowing down, etc. 

If I were to ask you how I should take that, how would you respond?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: &amp;quot;You and I have not aged at the same rate&amp;quot;*

Ocotillo:
@jld is half right, in that there is fear there. But I don't see loathing or resentment.

The point Mem is making is crucially important as well, in that there is little room for selfishness...from either party.
I will be repeating something similar to what another poster said, but it is important enough to repeat several times:

What did your wife say when you asked her to help you understand how she feels?

Or did you let that cliffhanger of a statement end the conversation? 

Communication, brother, even when it hurts...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: &amp;quot;You and I have not aged at the same rate&amp;quot;*

Not everything can be fixed with Zen... And certainly not sex. There's a whole bunch of mental processing done at lower levels that we don't think about in reality. They just are.

If you manage to not speak ill of your wife despite her actions, its good in a boy scout helps old lady cross the street way but in practice all you do is eat the disappointment... Eventually you stop eating and it matters not one bit what she does. It's toast.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Maybe he's the good Captain Kirk to my bad Captain Kirk 

Look at her intentions and her overall energy. The same size 4, 125 lb petite Asian lady that is sooooo tired on the weekend has no problems working 18 hour days, or spreading 20 cubic yards of mulch or cycling 35 miles. But heaven forbid she actually does something for her family... THAT'S tiring, ya know...


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

always_alone said:


> Let me just add that my SO says more or less the same sorts of things to me: he is getting older, slowing down, etc.
> 
> If I were to ask you how I should take that, how would you respond?


AA,

Written composition is a pretty two dimensional form of communication compared to being there in the flesh. I understand the facile meaning of the words, but would have no clue about the nuances and implications of the message in your relationship. 

For example, is your SO, the type of person who thinks the sexual element of a relationship is a luxury? --Nice when you can get it, but like eating out, it's one of the first things to go when time, energy or other resources become limited.

Is he the type of person who's less enthusiastic than "Marvin" from _The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy_ when you initiate? 

I do understand the point of your question though. And I would agree with NoraJane, EleGirl and several others who've basically said not to go beyond what has actually been said and to direct my efforts at further communication and her lack of energy.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: &amp;quot;You and I have not aged at the same rate&amp;quot;*



john117 said:


> If you manage to not speak ill of your wife despite her actions, its good in a boy scout helps old lady cross the street way but in practice all you do is eat the disappointment... Eventually you stop eating and it matters not one bit what she does. It's toast.


Being married to a truly nice person is both a blessing and a curse. The "blessing" is obvious, but the "curse" is that you can almost never get a straight answer to anything.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: &amp;amp;quot;You and I have not aged at the same rate&amp;amp;quot;*



ocotillo said:


> Being married to a truly nice person is both a blessing and a curse. The "blessing" is obvious, but the "curse" is that you can almost never get a straight answer to anything.


That does not sound very "nice".

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: &amp;quot;You and I have not aged at the same rate&amp;quot;*



farsidejunky said:


> That does not sound very nice


In what way?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: &amp;quot;You and I have not aged at the same rate&amp;quot;*



ocotillo said:


> ...but the "curse" is that you can almost never get a straight answer to anything.


This.

Or am I misreading intent on this?

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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

*Re: &amp;quot;You and I have not aged at the same rate&amp;quot;*



farsidejunky said:


> This.
> 
> Or am I misreading intent on this?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Okay, let me flesh it out a bit.

Who of us would berate a six-year-old for articulating the hind legs of a horse incorrectly in a drawing? Is accuracy important enough to make a child feel bad about? I would say, "No."

All of us have a tipping point between brutal honesty and compassion and that varies from person to person. 

Extraordinarily empathetic and sensitive people (Like my wife) have a higher tipping point than the rest of us do. Not only do they bend over backwards to be polite, they have a great deal of their self worth tied up in the image itself. 

So, no, they're not necessarily going to give you an honest answer even when that's what you need.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: &amp;quot;You and I have not aged at the same rate&amp;quot;*

Oco,
What you're describing is the 'nice persons' aversion to saying things that are both true and hurtful. Or that they believe will be hurtful. 

Best thing by far in that type situation is to make it as easy as possible for the other person to be honest. 

For instance: 
- It's no secret my desire level is higher than yours
- Fairly normal for one person to have a higher desire - likely more common than not
- Grateful that you are willing, even when you're not really 'wanting' 
- Don't want to get to a place where that part of our marriage is BAD for you, that you avoid or worse dread it
- Be happy to go rabbit hunting with you, if you're willing to give that a try (does she know that a rabbit is a very popular vibrator?)

Even making it easy as possible by taking the approach above, might not work. If she is still resistant - even with that as an opener - you can roll to plan B. 

Some stuffs hard to talk about. Would it be easier to revisit this after you've had a glass or three of wine? 

---------
Ultimately though, if she's still shutting down any real communication on this topic, you play the - that hurts more card. Which looks something like this.

You won't talk to me about this, makes me believe you don't trust me to be able to handle the truth. That hurts worse than whatever the truth is. 

Or the short form of that which is: Why are you shutting me out? 




ocotillo said:


> Being married to a truly nice person is both a blessing and a curse. The "blessing" is obvious, but the "curse" is that you can almost never get a straight answer to anything.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

What the fvck is a gastropub?


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> What the fvck is a gastropub?


A restaurant that specializes in high-end wines and beers.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> A restaurant that specializes in high-end wines and beers.


Oh. 


She disappears at night to go to these places alone?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think you could be conflating niceness and codependency. You are "sparing her feelings" which is not actually a good thing because it is a reaction to her possible reaction. Way too derivative - that's the codependent dance.

I am married to a woman that I refer to as "my delicate flower" though she's raised (and is raising) 5 kids, had run a $5 million business, had over 100 employees reporting directly or indirectly to her, etc. in other words, she is "capable" - but she is also very nice and vulnerable.

Since reading the threads on TAM I have identified her original family codependency and our subsequent codependency. Codependents are quite able to spread the "gift".

In any event I now realize worrying about protecting her actually hurts me and it hurts us. So YES it is difficult and takes time, but it is time to wean yourself off this unhealthy dance.

Be honest. Share your dissatisfaction, let her own her piece, even if it's painful. Let her come to you with solutions.

It's time to break down this wall that prevents you from being honest.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> She disappears at night to go to these places alone?


No. Not at all.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> It's time to break down this wall that prevents you from being honest.


--Not sure how I've given that impression.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Me either.



Personal said:


> I don't have that impression.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

K never mind


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Thanks everyone.

After gently broaching the subject yesterday, I think EleGirl came closest to describing the feelings beneath the words. -But I wasn't entirely wrong either. Anything resembling a sexual relationship is going to be collateral damage.

The challenge for me is not to let it happen a second time...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> After gently broaching the subject yesterday, I think EleGirl came closest to describing the feelings beneath the words. -But I wasn't entirely wrong either. Anything resembling a sexual relationship is going to be collateral damage.
> 
> The challenge for me is not to let it happen a second time...


Now who is the cryptic one?



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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

farsidejunky said:


> Now who is the cryptic one?


Which part?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ocotillo said:


> Which part?


Maybe just elaborate on not being wrong and the part about collateral damage. I think I understand what you are saying, but I want to be sure.

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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> AA,
> 
> Written composition is a pretty two dimensional form of communication compared to being there in the flesh. I understand the facile meaning of the words, but would have no clue about the nuances and implications of the message in your relationship.
> 
> ...


My point was also simply this: She may just be telling you the truth.

When my SO tells me he is old, falling apart, less interested, etc., he isn't lying to me. Ocotillo, did you not say once something to the effect of sometimes you would just rather read the newspaper, that your own desire has declined?

Sex is part mechanical, part hormonal, and part imagination. Unfortunately, there isn't too much you can do to change the mechanics and the hormones, but you can change the imagination. It takes a concerted effort, though, as imagination will often falter in the face of "reality". 

If you know what I mean.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The mechanics can be changed - by far the easiest variable to change in terms of techniques, environment, pre-game romance..

Imagination can be managed - if you adjust the environment and other factors. 

Expectations are the hardest to change.

If the expectations are such that 50 year olds have a healthy intimate life, then the other parameters can be adjusted. If the expectations are such that 50 year olds have the same intimacy expectations as the frozen food aisle at Meijer...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

after reading page 1 and 5.

About 6 summers ago I did my first 1000 vertical foot hike. I was about 43 It about killed me. I just turned 50. I'm looking at 2000 foot hikes next summer. Maybe I'm optimistic but I think I'll be doing them either this year or next. This energy thing has a lot to do with what you are doing and not so much with how many laps you have made around the sun.My wife who is 7 months younger than me, only wants to join me on hikes that are under 500 vertical feet and under 5 miles. This is frustrating to me. In many ways she is in better shape than me, and she will outlive me. Doing this with me would complete her fitness package. If she was a bit more flexible in her thinking, she could build the endurance to run me into the ground. 

So what do I do? I can go it alone. or I can work out under my capacity. Right now I'm thinking both. Plan some trips that she will go on, and some I will have to go with someone else. And somewhere there is this Idea of Buying a ATV/ OHV so she can ride ahead on longer hikes and bring water and snacks. 

I know I'm talking about Hiking not Sex, but ageing is alot more about what you decide to keep doing than what you can keep doing. I'm sure @ocotillo problem will not be most easily fixed by a new recreational partner, but ther must be some workaround available if the right attitude is available. 
MN


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

AA



always_alone said:


> When my SO tells me he is old, falling apart, less interested, etc., he isn't lying to me. Ocotillo, did you not say once something to the effect of sometimes you would just rather read the newspaper, that your own desire has declined?


I don't doubt that I have. 

I've also said that I realized I had much more control over that than I ever imagined; that "Just do it" (An idea that regularly gets trashed here) was useful as a form of behavioral self therapy; taken other men to task for whining about their wives gaining a few pounds, growing older, etc., and just generally blown Stephen Covey's "Love is verb" and Mary Poppins "Spoonful of sugar" mentality up everybody's skirts and trousers until they're probably thoroughly irritated with me. 

What do you do with your SO? Is he simply slowing down or are we talking about nuclear winter?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I don't really have the energy to decrypt what you're saying or go back, read other posters writing, and guess which parts pertain to what your W said.

Would it be too much to ask what your wife said in your conversation and if she and you are going to work in anything?

My read is she said something and you are not going to do or say anything more and no longer have sex with her. 

But then again you didn't tell us anything about these questions so I just guessed from your posts.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I don't really have the energy to decrypt what you're saying or go back, read other posters writing, and guess which parts pertain to what your W said.
> 
> Would it be too much to ask what your wife said in your conversation and if she and you are going to work in anything?
> 
> ...


My bad.

I really should have "followed the directions" when I first came here and done a introductory post that I could refer back to.

My wife and I have been married a little over 40 years. We met at a themed party in the early 70's and were both instantly attracted to each other. She was an extremely affectionate and sexual person. (Picture Lea Thompson's portrayal of Lorraine Baines in_ Back to the Future_) We were married within 18 months and were happy for almost the first 10 years. 

At about the 9 1/2 year mark, she conceived and her libido suddenly vanished. It was like a guillotine coming down. I wasn't happy about that, but bit my tongue and I told myself I was being an ass. --That if I were just patient, kind and supportive things would eventually right themselves. 

Only they didn't. She wasn't mean about it. She didn't come right out and refuse; she just had absolutely zero interest and it was written all over her. I had no desire myself under those circumstances. We tried to work through that, but little by little all the other things that make a marriage pleasurable and worthwhile dried up and faded away too. In the end, we were like two divorced people who's only common interest was the children.

Several years ago two things happened. Her rock-steady cycle started to falter right about the time the youngest was graduating from high-school and planning to move out. 

Suddenly she was her old self again and her libido was through the roof, which was surprising to put it mildly. The youngest moved away to attend college, we were alone in the house with free time on our hands and it was like falling in love all over again.

We both regretted the years we had wasted, apologized for the parts we both played in becoming virtual strangers in the same home, renewed our vows and solemnly promised each other never to let that happen again. 

Fast forward the clock about six more years to the present. She's starting to spend her evenings diddling with her cell phone and tablet until she falls asleep, chatting for hours with friends and family and other things that tend to be exclusionary when carried to an excess. --Not all the time, but that is increasingly the pattern.

We have talked about this and are continuing to talk about it. Like I said, we promised each other not to let it happen a second time. Her responses initially were apologetic, but took (IMO) a turn towards justification with the comment, "We haven't aged at the same rate."

Hence this thread


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> What do you do with your SO?  Is he simply slowing down or are we talking about nuclear winter?


Somewhere in between. And sure, if he were more fit, more willing to "just do it", more willing to think like me, take on my priorities, then I would get more of what I want. Things would go *my* way. 

But he doesn't. And ultimately, you can't really expect people to be what you think they "should" be. His sex drive has nothing to do with me, and probably never has. He wanted it when *he* was horny, and he doesn't when he isn't. And in all fairness, I don't think I'm much different.

So, my takeaway has been this: either I find ways to change his mind, or I'm SOL.


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