# Our seperation begins... Please Help



## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Tonight my wife moved out under a controlled separation that is scheduled to last until the end of August (6 months). We have one son (10 years old) and he will stay living with me in the family home. My wife and I get along fine. We don't fight, or argue. But 2 years ago she told me that she was no longer in love with me and she wanted to end the marriage after getting involved in an emotional affair with one of my friends. She ended the affair after I found out about it, and for a month or two we tried to get closer as a couple, but it wasn't working for her. She had no love for me, she felt like she and we were broken. She says that she had been feeling this way for years, but never said anything, only staying in her own unhappiness, and quietly suffering. She says that I was controlling, moody, and would put up a black cloud whenever I didn't get my way all though out the marriage. She was right. 

After she told me she wanted to leave I began seeing a therapist and got my life together and began controlling my emotions better. I realized how much I had neglected her and told her I didn't want to lose her. I became so much better in fact that a year ago she said that I had become the perfect husband, but she still didn't love me, and she didn't think she ever could, or would, again. She said she just couldn't trust that I wouldn't go back to being the old me, as she called it. We decided to try to stay together as friends for the sake of our son, but that seemed to collapse in February, when she said she just couldn't live with me anymore and she had to get out. She was suffocating. Now, I find myself at my wit's end. I understand that I have to let her go off on her own, that this is our last chance. She wants to see if she will miss me, if she can get out from under the suffocating feeling that living with me has caused her. Neither of us knows what the future holds, whether she will move back in six months, or whether she will file for divorce. We are seeing a counselor, and will continue seeing him every week, but I'm so afraid he won't be able to help us, though he has certainly helped me. She will come to see our son everyday, and every other day he will go to her apartment for dinner, and she and I will continue to text and talk everyday, but I don't know if this is the right approach or if I need to limit my contact with her more.

So, I am asking anyone now, with her moving out, is it possible to save our marriage? Like I said, we do not fight, or argue. I prod her, and beg her to stay, and subtly try to keep her close to me, but there is no anger, or dislike on either of our parts. She simply says she doesn't love me anymore as a husband, and she will no longer fake it as she has the past 9 years. So what do I do now? I went into the bedroom tonight and it felt so empty. All her things are gone. In our bathroom I looked at my single little toothbrush in the holder and it looked so lonely there that I just broke down crying... Where do I go from here?


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

I think the controlled separation is a bad idea. It is not designed to see if she misses you. It is designed for her to continue her affair and begin to see life without you. She's crafting her escape plan and you're going along with it. You're going to continue to help save the relationship, she's further checking out. You don't want to rock the boat as you're afraid it will push her further away. 

You CANNOT nice her out of this. If you continue to placate her, things will get worse and not better. 

I don't think separations save marriages. 

Even after you did all of the work to change, this is the end result? You're jumping through hoops for someone who's rejecting the work you've done? 

My advice is start taking care of your son and and your own business. Read through all of the threads here and also the ones in coping with infidelity.


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## Thjor (Feb 18, 2014)

Stop begging and pleading. Use this time to work on yourself. Hit the gym, see a counsellor. Keep contact with her to a minimum. This will help you deal with this. It will make you stronger. Follow the 180.


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## Anonymoususer86 (Mar 24, 2014)

Sorry to hear I have a similar situation going on right now.. Separation won't work because she clearly says she does not love you anymore. Do not contact her unless you really have to and make it short and simple. Don't ask her to hang out or talk about how she is feeling. Take care of your son. It's very tough to walk into empty rooms and memories. If I were you and this helped me alot pack up all the stuff that you have of memories of you guys together. This will make you not think about it so much. Anyway I wish you the best of luck


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

What consequences did you give her for her affair?


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

A couple of things. First, I heard the "I Love you but I'm not in love with you talk" almost 2 years ago. In the time in between I know I've been hounding her and pressuring her until she finally felt she needed the space that a Controlled separation would give us. In regards to her affair, it never amounted to anything more than a kiss. I know this, and it lasted about 1 month. When I found out, she was devastated and felt horrible for hurting me. I genuinely believe she doesn't want to hurt me or our son, and I know this has been horribly difficult for her to do. But I also believe that she had to do it or she was going to continue to sink into a deeper and deeper depression. She has said that if she could get the feeling back for me she would, but she just doesn't think that loving me and not being in love with me is enough to keep our marriage going. So, she is taking this time away to try to decide what she needs to do. When we parted we both said I love you to each other... there were no consequences for the affair, other than the night I found the text messages spending the night away from home. Two days later we reconciled from it by her telling me, while standing naked in the bedroom, that she wanted to open herself up to me completely. Sadly, two months after that night, she told me she still wasn't feeling the love for me she thought she should be feeling.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Sososoin love said:


> A couple of things. First, I heard the "I Love you but I'm not in love with you talk" almost 2 years ago. In the time in between I know I've been hounding her and pressuring her until she finally felt she needed the space that a Controlled separation would give us. In regards to her affair, it never amounted to anything more than a kiss. I know this, and it lasted about 1 month. When I found out, she was devastated and felt horrible for hurting me. I genuinely believe she doesn't want to hurt me or our son, and I know this has been horribly difficult for her to do. But I also believe that she had to do it or she was going to continue to sink into a deeper and deeper depression. She has said that if she could get the feeling back for me she would, but she just doesn't think that loving me and not being in love with me is enough to keep our marriage going. So, she is taking this time away to try to decide what she needs to do. When we parted we both said I love you to each other...


she doesn't love you like you love her. She's told you this.

She's actually done you a favor by telling you everything you need to know. I suggest you go minimum contact with her for your kid. Develop your relationship more with your kid. Most importantly develop yourself. 

Let's just be friends is what your wife wants. It's not an offer of friendship. It's a rejection, but it's designed to make your wife feel less guilty. Also, if you reject the friendship, it's on you. Three card monte my friend. Game is rigged for you to lose.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Do yourself a favor, listen to Helo.

She's done with you. Separations lead to divorce.

Married people in love don't move out. 

She wants out and she is moving on.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

It seems each and everyone one of us does this on day one, we blame ourselves for everything and we wallow in the woulda-coulda-shouldas. If you made changes to yourself over the last couple of years and she wont accept them, it is her lose. It takes two people to get into this situation and it takes two to work it out. 

Sounds like only one ever tried. The trial separation wont work, they rarely do. It only trains people for life without each other and the whole missing you stuff is an excuse at this point. What happened two years ago never got handled. You cant beg and plead and take all the blame hoping to fix it. You have proven that didn’t work. 

I highly doubt her reasons for moving out now and the trial separation and in almost all instances you don’t get the true story of what is going on in the here and now. You probably dont even know what you are up against right now.

You have basically given her six months to have the time of her life while you hang around and wait. She has shown no interest in trying to repair the marriage and right now she is done, you are just the last to know so to speak. 

Can your marriage be saved, yes if both of you want to put the effort into it. This is an extremely hard time for you right now since you didn’t want any of this and its hard to here but she must start to see you in a different light. She has told you that you aren’t what she wants, give her what she wants and get a lawyer and file for divorce. If she wants a new life give it to her, don’t let her just slowly ease herself into a new life while you stay the plan B. Contact her as little as possible. Give yourself some time to start to let your logical side of the brain get your emotional side under control.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

During this separation have your agreed that dating is allowed? Typically separations are to give the walk away spouse the opportunity to have relations with others. Sometimes these exploratory affairs all fail to lead to LTR and they may return.

For this to happen love must survive and if a woman has been having sex with other men, she go in and out of being infatuated with them. That necessarily erodes the emotional base of the a marriage. However, her feelings for you are dead. Then they will not come back, unless you earn lots more money or date beautiful women, actions that raise your sex ranking.

It is possible that she will miss you and desire you again, but sentimental sparks do not light wet tinder on fire.


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Anonomoususer 86: Sorry to hear you're going through the same thing. I thought about packing up her stuff/ pictures/ etc. But I will be seeing her most everyday as she comes to see our son any way. I will be limiting our contact as much as possible, mostly just to date nights every 2 weeks or so. Thanks for the support, I hope your situation works out as you want it.

Honcho: Part of the separation agreement is no lawyers, no filing or talk of divorce. Also, it will be hard not contacting her as she will be seeing our son everyday. That is what has been hardest about this for her, she will be missing our son.

Longwalk: In the agreement neither of us will be dating. She has said that she doesn't want to see anyone else, she just wants to take this time to work on herself and I do believe her. The day she left she put her wedding ring back on, which meant a lot to me, and she knew it.

Many of the comments here are telling me to be done with her and I appreciate those because it is an approach I need to steel myself for. It is a fine balance between hoping for reconciliation and putting myself first. While I know I need to shut her out and focus on myself and my son, I don't want to slam the door and lock it. A big part of me truly feels sorry for her and what she is going through emotionally. I could never imagine leaving my son behind, or a person that you profess to care very deeply about. I've read the 180 rule and am trying to implement it to get my head on straight, but its not been easy, as this entire drama with her has been going on for almost 2 years, with ups and downs along the way. With her finally out of the house I know I can now get on with focusing on me, but it is still going to be pretty lonely.


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## struggle (May 13, 2013)

I think she doesn't yet know what life is like without you. She has to make the decision. Everything you've done to try and win her back has not worked, but have you tried letting go and working on yourself? You're just going to keep pushing her away otherwise. To do a real 180 you have to be willing to let go of your imaginary control of the situation. Keep it neutral and respectful business only (regarding necessities like money and children), and leave your desperation to reconcile out of it. Talk it out with your IC only, with your W everything is great with you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

"Controlled separation".... 6 months apart... needs space = posOM


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Sososoin love said:


> *Longwalk: In the agreement neither of us will be dating. She has said that she doesn't want to see anyone else, she just wants to take this time to work on herself *and I do believe her. The day she left she put her wedding ring back on, which meant a lot to me, and she knew it.


Don't expect the "no dating" agreement to hold. She already has someone else in mind.

The loneliness you feel now will pass with time. Use the solitude to rediscover *you*. The* you* you were before you met her. Your identity is not defined by her.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

"Suffocating", "drowning" and other such terms are commonly used by disordered folks when they are overwhelmed with feelings of engulfment.

What was your relationship like? Can you describe your STBX's personality? Is she a party girl? Girls Night Out?


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

You being controlling was not a good thing, although you haven't said what that really looked like. But her having an affair was not something she "had to do" to save herself from depression. What a load of gas-lighting nonsense. And the chances are that she did more than kiss, simply because _they always do_.

From the sounds of your post, you've been a weak husband for a long time. Being controlling is a sign of weakness. Accepting her excuses is a sign of weakness. Rug sweeping her affair is a sign of weakness. And so on. 

The only good path for you is a path of strength. This involves letting her go and working on yourself. If you end up reconciling, well, yay for that. But either way, you will never have a good relationship with her or any woman worth having unless you get stronger. The more you let her continue to call the shots, the further away she gets. 

Oh, and the only reason she agreed to the no dating thing is not because she won't date--she absolutely will--but she doesn't want you to date. If things go sour for her with her other man, she'll want you for a backup and to continue to provide for her in the future. If you find another woman, you will have less resources to offer her.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

The only way she is coming back home during this separation is if her PoSOM dumps her.

Then she'll come scurrying back to Soso (plan B).

Soso, I hope you aren't financing her love shack.

Does she have any toxic friends who are encouraging this?


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Three Strikes: Up until 2 years ago my wife struggled to find a job and never seemed to know what she wanted to do with her life. She was 45. One month before she said she wanted to leave she found a job that she loves. Her attitude the past 2 years has changed in that she does go out with her girlfriends for margarita night every Friday night, but most of the week she would spend at home watching and rewatching re-runs of Friends. We never have/had much money to really go out partying, and now that she is on her own her budget will be even tighter. Yes, I was controlling and moody for much of our marriage and she felt that she wanted out years ago, but she stayed with it mostly for our son's sake. When she told me she wanted out 2 years ago and I began therapy I stopped with those behaviors and I tried to back off her, giving her everything she wanted: space, freedom to go out with her friends, etc. But I know I was still clinging to her just because I didn't want her to leave. Finally, two months ago when she decided she was leaving I realized that I had still been needy and pressuring her to "fix" the marriage. Originally, she was just going to leave and decided it was over. But then we found out about the controlled separation idea and she thought that maybe this would give her the space and time to decide what she really wanted. She said she felt relieved.

MSP: Yes, you are right on all counts. I was and still am a pretty weak husband. With therapy I'm beginning to focus more on myself and less on an "us". I am working on arriving at that path of strength.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Sososoin love said:


> We never have/had much money to really go out partying . . . I was controlling and moody for much of our marriage . . . I began therapy I stopped with those behaviors and I tried to back off her, giving her everything she wanted: space, freedom to go out with her friends, etc.


If your therapist encouraged you to allow your wife to go out partying and have more space, your therapist enabled the destruction of your marriage.


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

MSP: The therapist didn't encourage that, and she really doesn't go out partying, just the Friday night girls night out, which always corresponded with my Friday night Boys night, when I'd have the guys over to my place. The therapist really just encouraged me to do a 180, which I would do, until it would bring a desired affect and she would show me some affection or emotion, at which point I would go right back to being needy and clingy. Sad and stupid I know, but the problem was with her around I could never really implement the 180 like I needed to. I think now that she is out I may have more success focusing just on me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sososoin love said:


> MSP: The therapist didn't encourage that, and she really doesn't go out partying, just the Friday night girls night out, which always corresponded with my Friday night Boys night, when I'd have the guys over to my place. The therapist really just encouraged me to do a 180, which I would do, until it would bring a desired affect and she would show me some affection or emotion, at which point I would go right back to being needy and clingy. Sad and stupid I know, but the problem was with her around I could never really implement the 180 like I needed to. I think now that she is out I may have more success focusing just on me.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155305-weeds-codependence.html


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Would you say your wife's sex ranking is much higher than yours?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Longwalk: No. I'm a very fit, attractive 47 year old who craves regular sex. My wife is 46, about 75 lbs overweight, and has lost complete interest. She is still quite beautiful, but doesn't take care of herself at all. Again, the sex was an issue that she cut off this past summer...


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Your not seeing the forest thru the trees yet. Most of what we are telling you and most of what you have probably read on this site will seem like just the opposite of what you want to do. Your emotional side is controlling your rational side. 

You are being needy and clingy even agreeing to the trial separation. You have given her free reign to explore a whole new world without you “hoping” she will come back. All you told her was go have fun and I will still be hear waiting if it doesn’t work out. 

You must change your mindset and you must change how she views you. You have followed a course of action for two years and look where its gotten you. She didn’t feel relieved about the controlled separation idea, you did. She has her plan in place and is doing exactly what she wanted, she is moving out and she knows full well if after a couple of months she can stroll right back home. 

You have referenced that budgets are tight, where is she staying now? A new apartment is expensive or are you helping with that too? Have you done any investigative work, looked at phone records things like that or have you just listened to everything she has told you is wrong and left it at that


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Honcho: I am listening. And I am trying to move on. The situation revolves around our 10 year old son. She wants to see him every day, and take him to her place for dinner every other day. I can't keep him away from her. What I can do is not be here when she comes to see him, and avoid her when she takes him to her place for dinner. I plan to keep it very business when we talk. I do intend to make this time about me, but it is a process for me. I can't just turn off my feelings for her, even though I know she does not reciprocate those feelings for me. As far as her phone records, and checking on her, I don't think I need to do that because I'm going to focus on myself. If she does come back then it seems like those issues will be resolved.


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## Thjor (Feb 18, 2014)

Sweetie you are not listening to the people that are trying to help you. As someone told me once when I first got on here listen differently to what advice is being given to you. You need to start the 180. Someone please give him the link and read it throughly. You are sounding desperate and she will find this unattractive. Concentrate on you.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

When you are divorced either she will not see her child everyday or you wont see your child everyday. Im not saying use your child as a pawn and it is a complicated problem in every break-up involving kids. So really she gets the benefit of coming around for playtime and you have all the responsibility. You have made it easy for her. Yet she left the child also when she left didn’t she? 

I understand you cant turn off your feelings and no one ever said this was fun or easy. No one wanted to be here! You don’t want to check on things because you don’t want to know what may truly be going on. Till you even know what you are up against you cant even begin to deal with her or your marriage. Learn from the mistakes so many of us made. You think time is your ally in all this and it isn’t.


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## Anonymoususer86 (Mar 24, 2014)

You will eventually see what everyone is talking about. I sure did!!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sososoin Love,

Are you so in love that you are blind? I think not. You see but you are in denial.

1) A women either does or doesn't want a man. Most do.
2) Your wife probably fantasizes about losing weight and dating.
3) While she is away she will start dating, unless she has zero pull. 

If she cannot attract another man, do you want her back?

If she can only attract men who want her for sex, do you want her to return?

Her plans to pop in at will are hardly fair. You get to see her and then she goes back to the apartment where she may soon has POSOM's tooth brush in the bathroom.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Listen to the advice offered here. 180 for your sake. Prepare emotionally and financially for life without her. Get what is rightfully yours now before she fully implements Plan A because once she starts fully running her script the gloves come off and there will be no reasoning with her. Expect no fairness or empathy.


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## Convict (Feb 16, 2014)

Soso. You can probably see that all the advice here is pointing you towards one clear direction. The advice clearly comes from the cumulative experiences of all the people who posted on this thread. 

I was / still am going through a very very similar situation. It is hard, exhausting, emotionally draining, and heartbreaking, especially when you have a child involved in the middle. 

But like everyone said it loud and clear, you should not be the nice guy waiting for your wife to decide if she will want to return to you. You, sadly but neccessarily, must accept that she no longer loves you, and that she thus is no longer worthy of your love, commitment or loyalty. 

All this is much easier said than done, trust me I know, and I think most of us here know. But this is what you have to do. This is the reality you have to reconcile yourself with. And only time and strength will allow the pain to fade away.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

YOu seem to know everything you have done wrong.
If you want to attract your wife, act attractively. Taking responsiblity for everything wrong in a marraige and being desparate to keep her are unattractive.

Here's how you act attractive. Act like you are the prize that SHE has to earn. And, since your wife left the house, keep a daily diary showing you have primary custody of your kid. 

A man with a plan (freedom from her, custody of his kid)... Now that's attractive!


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

So last night, on the third day of the separation, my wife was supposed to take our son to her apartment for dinner. She called to ask if I wanted to join them. At first, I said no, I had other things to do. When she arrived after work at 5:00 to pick up our son she asked again, and said she felt bad that I would be eating all alone, so I said ok, I would try to get my work done and see if I could meet them. Around 6:30 she texted dinner in 20 minutes, so I headed over to her place, and ate with them, remaining as aloof as possible. What I kept in my mind was her comment that she felt bad I was eating all alone. That's all this was on her part, sympathy to make herself feel better. After dinner we sat on her balcony and talked, mostly about how sick she was feeling, and tired, and how she loved her little kitchen in her apartment. The whole time there I was able to distance myself from myself and reply very matter of factly, yet sympathetically to her. When it was time to leave we were sitting on her bed waiting for my son to get his shoes on, when he came running into the room and wanted a group cuddle on the bed. It was very awkward, but I did it for my son's sake. I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but I felt like it was a good visit. I thanked her for inviting me, and my son and I left. It seemed to go well because I honestly felt like I was visiting a friends house, and I treated her as such. A friend. I guess I just wanted to say that I surprised myself at my ability to turn off my emotions while I was there. I even think next time she invites me I may say no, not just for the sake of saying no, but because I will find something else I want to do.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Tough situation... It's hard to know what the right path is.

From everything I've seen on this board, there are a few common occurances:
-- A wife who separates is usually giving herself permission to be seuxal with someone else.
-- Normally the way back to reconciliation is if her life sucks without you compared to how it is with you.
-- Cake eating is pretty common when a wife would use you for certain needs (i.e. communication, friendship, parenting) and use someone else for other needs (sex, fun).

But at the same time, it's hard to refuse an olive branch and could be counter productive...

But the way I recommend you look at it is this. YOur wife is "above" you. She cheated on you. You accepted it. Then she blamed you. You accepted it. Then you became the perfect husband. And she couldn't put her finger on why this did not matter. You accepted that. She then said we'd live together as friends. You accepted that. She then said, no that will not work. We need to separate. You accepted that. Do you see the pattern? No matter what hoops she puts out for you to jump through, you will jump through it. I think that she will just be makeing more and more hoops until you stop jumping through them. What you are lving now is a marriage and a life completely defined by your wife's terms and conditions. She does not want this and you do not want this.

Women do try to dominate their men in this way. It is biological since they are not physically stronger than their men. But look up in the men's section about the man up and nice guy reference. Women will test you but what they really want is for you to "pass" the test by refusing to give into a ridicuolus request. And show them that you value yourself.

So the introspection you need to do is not tacitally what should you do. It's looking at yourself and deciding do you value yourself? Are you worthy of a marriage? Is a functioning marriage the best thing for you child? It is to decide the life that you want to such a degree that this is the only life you will have. And to recognize that people make choices to be in your life or they make choices not to be in your life.

Once you know who you are and the life you are to have, it's super easy to decide what to do in regard to dealing with your wife.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Her feelings with regard to love and sex shifted to the POSOM. It could be some time before they dissipate. Will you be the one?

I would not vist her apartment or eat dinner there. Why should you enter that space?

Feeling sorry for you eating alone? She probably felt the same level of regret for you after the OM had just finished inside her.

She is mixed up, conflicted and erratic.


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks Hicks, great reply. You are right, I have been jumping through the hoops. So a question: Do I confront her with this newly realized information? Do I say to her, "Look, I have been jumping through every hoop you have put before me, from the EA, to the friends, to the separation, and I will not be jumping through any more hoops."? We already have a controlled separation contract, which I believe she and I will honor. But if she breaks its terms, I will be finished, and I think she knows that.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sososoin love said:


> Thanks Hicks, great reply. You are right, I have been jumping through the hoops. So a question: Do I confront her with this newly realized information? Do I say to her, "Look, I have been jumping through every hoop you have put before me, from the EA, to the friends, to the separation, and I will not be jumping through any more hoops."? We already have a controlled separation contract, which I believe she and I will honor. But if she breaks its terms, I will be finished, and I think she knows that.


Talk less, do more


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I wouldn’t bother trying to explain anything as far as jumping thru hoops. Your separated, whether you want to call it controlled or not you are. You don’t have to explain yourself or justify your stance. 

As far as dinners doing things like that, right now I guess I would have to be more inclined with telling her no and continue to have as little communication as you can right now. It is HARD. For all her talk about you eating alone its was probably more her wanting company than caring about your wants. 

Don’t be surprised if she starts wanting little things out of the house and other excuses to just kind of “barge into your life”. They do this to see what you are up to, keep some attached in a way. Until she is ready to talk about what is really going on and wants to work on the issues the two have its best to pull back. Remind her she wanted the separation not you and just leave it at that.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Put up a picture of a beautiful woman on the bathroom mirror so that brushing your teeth is not a trigger.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Sososoin love said:


> Thanks Hicks, great reply. You are right, I have been jumping through the hoops. So a question: Do I confront her with this newly realized information? Do I say to her, "Look, I have been jumping through every hoop you have put before me, from the EA, to the friends, to the separation, and I will not be jumping through any more hoops."? We already have a controlled separation contract, which I believe she and I will honor. But if she breaks its terms, I will be finished, and I think she knows that.


No, don't say this.
There is nothing you can say to bring your marriage back. Meaning, you are not going to find the right logical argument.

Just work on valuing yourself. Be the man she wants to go to. Value yourself to a degree that you only welcome wives in your life who choose to be there. This will take time.


There are a few things you have to realize:
-- The reason your wife wanted a six month separation is not related to what she told you. At one end of the spectrum, tt's either so she can have sex with other men, of at the other end of the spectrum it's so she can say to herself and her child that she "tried" everything before divorce. In the middle, she is afraid nothing better than her marraige will come along, so she gets a way to get it all back if nothing good presents itself (you are plan B).
-- If she showed the ability to cheat, then you can rest assured that she will not abide by any agreement not to see anyone else while you are separated. On the scheme of wrongdoings, what is worse? You tell me.
-- Whatever you have done to improve yourself and your marriage has not worked, so you have to do different things.
-- Talkng is not going to help you. You have to demonstrate to her. And it will take time.

So what is your plan to start valuing yourself.
1. Have a divorce plan ready for the moment you observe her voilating the rules she agreed to. This plan would involve meeting with a lawyer, working out how you will get the best deal for yourself, figuring out how you gain the child custody you want, figuring out what you would do at a moment's notice such as moving money, cancelling credit cards, serving her with divorce papers.
2. Embrace and enjoy living unencumbered by attempting to please a woman who treats you like crap. There are alot of negatives about being married and living with someone, so now you have the freedom... So you should embrace that. Do something you love that she hates. Spend your money the way you would choose to rather than trying to please her.
3. Get a haircut, join a gym, lose weight. Buy a new car or motorcycle or bicycle.
4,5,6.... You come up with some ideas. Not focused on interacting with her, but developeing yourself and your own sense of value.


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## struggle (May 13, 2013)

Separation is like a rollercoaster. Some days you feel like things go well...and then another day it's like a train wreck. You feel like you're in control of your emotions, until you're not. Your X will continue to use the same emotional tactics, bringing you back to what caused some of the issues in the first place, and she will also surprise you. You try not to fall into the same pattern, but it's hard. When you think you're past something, there's a reminder that there's no quick healing in this, especially if you still have contact. 

I'm glad you felt strong that day, that means you are making some progress. There's a long, hard road ahead of you. Find/integrate things into your life that make you feel strong and independent. I agree with all of Hicks suggestions.


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks Struggle and Hicks for your words. I guess what I have the most trouble with is that my wife does love me as a father, but not as a husband. That is, she loves the way I take care of our son, fix his problems, etc, but she doesn't love me as a husband in that I want from her commitment, love, etc, all the things she says she cant give me. That, I believe is why it took her 2 years to finally separate and leave the house, she didn't want to lose the family, just the husband. So where I struggle is in wanting to maintain being a good father, and wanting to maintain the family. But obviously, I can't have a family, with her, if she doesn't want to be my wife. We have a counseling session next week and I'm sure these issues will come up. In the meantime, I see her everyday as it relates to our son, so I will just keep it business between us, though I am sure she will want to do "something" as a family as well.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

So basically, you're her tool.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Yes, you continue to confirm that you allowed her to define the marriage. In her definition of marriage she can have you meet some of her needs (father, income provider) and allow other people to meet her other needs (sex, conversation). Also, what has she given to you? Did she meet your needs in the past? You are a part of the marriage too, and your needs are important.

You admit/realize that she is "using you" for the good of what she can get out of you. That's why it's crucial for you not to "give" her anything while separated. Separation has to be worse than marriage.

Here is one of your rules in life. In a marriage you have to take the good with the bad. You are a single package. She gets all of you or she gets none of you. And you her... YOu are willing to tolerate her faults as well as her good qualities.

The thing is don't be a **** about it to her. You can tell her that you are all for doing things together if they are in the spirit of rebuilding or reconciling the marriage, but you don't see that as her intent, so you decline.

What is the purpose of counseling? How does a "perfect husband" need to be in counseling? Again, looks like a box she is trying to check. Only go to counseling if you judge that she is doing it to rebuild the relationship with you... And I don't see how you can make that judgement at this time.

Here is what I see.

Your wife is trying to test you to see if you will ever stand up and demonstrate some masculinity. And to "man up" is not to be a jerk, but it's to be secure and confident in what you want, and be willing to personally make assessments of what people are offereing and respond accordingly.

The way it's obvious that she is testing your masculinity is as follows:

-- Main One: You are the perfect husband but I just don't know how to "feel" any love for you.
-- Giving you a bunch of horrible terms and conditions in marriage and you accepting them out of desparation.
-- Inviting you to dinner becuase she feels sorry for you.
-- Not meeting your needs and watching as you do nothing but take blame.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Soso,

Let her see you enjoying life. Post FB pics of you out on the town with your buds. Be sure there are some hotties in those pics.


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Can someone explain to me what is @50 k? Its from a thread "The Weeds of Co-dependence." Thanks.


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## woosaa (Jul 9, 2013)

50000 feet. Essentially when you talk to your spouse you want to maintain that distance figuratively speaking. Take the emotions out of each transaction and view her for who she really is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It's where I am, compared to you, looking at your marriage.

It's about seeing things that you don't see. It's about maintaining distance so you can make way better decisions.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

At 50k means you see the big picture.

Remember your wife has two different needs: one is the stability that you provide, the other is the romantic tension that you don't. She wants an exciting and mysterious strong guy to whom she is attracted. The theme is repeated over and over in the romance pocket novels.

Whether or not you can be this figure is uncertain. But you have to play the part while being true to yourself.

1) the man she will desire sexually will not be a cuckold;
2) he will not be needy;
3) he will be self confident;
4) he his headed forwards to some happy life destination;
5) he will not tolerate disrespect

By filing for divorce while remaining calm you signal that you know your value as a man. When not being treated like a husband you do not continue to act like one.

Once you realize that you have the power to end the failed portion of your marriage you will feel that you have more control of your life. That alone with give you some self confidence.

Wouldn't you agree that as long as one person wants a relationship more that the other, all the power lies with the one who is indifferent?


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

At an elevation of 50K, you cannot hear what she says. 

However, you can see what she does.

Ignore words, watch actions.


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks for the info. Clear as crystal.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Any update on your situation. Its extremely similar to mine, except a separation has not happened. I made it to this board just before and decided to refuse and set conditons to our marriage. I'm interested to see how you are coping with your kid and all. Hope the 180 is sticking and working for you.


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

We have been separated for one month. We see each other every day in dealing with our son, she comes to see him every day after work, and every other night she takes him for dinner. We hug alot and get along fine as friends. Next week we will see a new marriage counselor who specializes in controlled separations. Though I have a few hiccups I guess my 180 is going well. I have a lot of good friends who I hang out with and I spend a lot of time with my son as he lives with me. I feel like my wife is keeping her distance which is fine, but odd. We say we miss each other, but she also says that she is really enjoying her space, so I guess that is good. I enjoy the space as well, but its still quite sad some times when something happens with my son and she is not here to experience it. Mostly I feel bad that she's missing out on his life. But it was her choice to go. We'll see what our new marriage counselor has to say next Wednesday. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for asking.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Why does she hug you?

Why do you have to meet everyday?

Separations seldom lead to reconciliation
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

I want to encourage you to keep doing the 180 and keep building yourself up. That is the only chance that you have to get your wife back. You were “needy and clingy” for years and you have to change that.

If you doing the 180 and build yourself up so that you are no longer needy and clingy she may be attracted to you and want to come back. However, if she does not after you have improved then she was dead to you long ago and there was nothing that would bring her back.

With you completing the 180 and building yourself up you will be ok with or without her.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

Thanks for sharing the update. I'm struggling to completely let go as well. Hang in there. I believe in the end it's the only way. For you and your son.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh golly. Alright, first off, be careful of TAM. You're not going to learn how to have a healthy relationship from a website that thinks women are all selfish manipulators who need to be manipulated to suit your own desires. 

Also, no one here knows why your wife wanted a separation. My H and I separated because I couldn't take begin ignored, lied to, and manipulated every day, not so I could go f*ck other men. That's utterly ridiculous. 

As far as what you can do to work on this, has your wife been more specific about what her issues were? Do you really know? Is your MC being at all helpful?


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## Sososoin love (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks northernlights for your sanity. I am taking most all I read here with a grain of salt. Many of the comments are helpful, and many I ignore out right. There is a lot of bitterness on this site. I am trying to GAL and give her the space to decide if the marriage is something we can work on and both be happy in. We are still very good friends and I truly understand that her leaving was not directed at me, but was something she had to do to figure out what was best for all of us. The way our marriage was going was creating 3 unhappy people. Now that we are apart and seeing a MC we are able to evaluate what is important to us in our individual lives and decide if that is something we can share together. I know I was manipulative and moody and often used my moods to get her to do what I want, and I get that I wouldn't want to be around someone like that either. Getting my own life back is teaching me to stop trying to control her, and everyone around me, and to just let things and people be. I can only control what I can control in my own life, not hers. The MC has taught me that. As far as she and I go, we will always be friends regardless of how our marriage ends up, though I hope that she can see the changes in me, and I hope that she recognizes the changes she needs to make in herself in order for our marriage to work and be healthy. In the meantime, we have until August to decide where we go from here.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Sososoin love said:


> I know I was manipulative and moody and often used my moods to get her to do what I want,


If this is the worst of what went on with you guys, I think you stand a good chance. But you'll have to be extra careful that she doesn't feel like you're still trying to manipulate her to get what you want. 

I think the advice to work on your relationship with your son is great. That way, she can see that you've learned and grown and can love selflessly, without feeling like it's directed towards her. And of course, you get to be with your son! 

I know for me, it hurt very deeply to feel like I'd given my husband my best and he'd used me. However, you sound like you're light years ahead of my husband in the spiritual development category (unless you too announced that everyone is to come shopping with you on the first beautiful weekend sunday because you were going to go buy yourself a new BBQ for mother's day? Oh, that's just mine?? )

The other good advice is that you'll need to show her that you're serious. If the MC gives you homework, do it! Read books, adopt a pet (nothing like a dog to teach us all about love!), volunteer... 

Good luck, I'm rooting for you!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sososoin love said:


> Thanks northernlights for your sanity. I am taking most all I read here with a grain of salt. Many of the comments are helpful, and many I ignore out right.
> 
> *I apologize if you found my comments unhelpful. I wonder if I was exaggerating? Northernlights is wants very much to save her marriage, but little or nothing in her threat indicates significant improvement in her relationship with her husband.
> 
> ...


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Northernlights is wants very much to save her marriage, but little or nothing in her threat indicates significant improvement in her relationship with her husband.


This is true! The separation didn't help us at all, but that's more because my H has no interest in doing _anything_ to help the marriage, not because the separation itself was a flawed idea.

I'm pretty sure that if he tried the 180 now, it wouldn't do a thing. I've been treated badly, my needs have been ignored (both emotionally and physically), I've been lied to and manipulated for years. Lifting weights and ignoring me won't help. I'd need to see real enlightenment and sincere remorse to even consider staying long-term.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Of course, the OPs wife is a different person, and their problems are different from mine. But still, a genuine commitment to being a better person and loving his wife more has got to be a better approach than playing a game.


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