# Confused, is this okay?



## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

My wife has a girlfriend and they spend way to much time together. We have two kids together and her girlfriend is also married with 4 kids and one on the way. I feel my wife spends all of her time and energy focusing on her girlfriend and her family. Our children seem to be just playing cards for her to make excuses to have a playdate or the like. If they are not together they are on the phone or texting, last month it was over 2600 minutes and over 700 texts(I pay the bills). They will even call eachother to watch the same thing at the same time and disscuss it. It seriously feels like I am being cheated on They work at the same place and will trade babysitting which seems to be another excuse to spend time together before and after switching. Literally there are days that she wakes up and calls or friend calls her and they will talk for a couple hours before deciding to meet up then spend the rest of the day together. We have been together for 8yrs, she is 28yrs old and I 30yrs old. This has gone on for over two years now...

I don't know if it is obvious but she does not pay much attention to me. Sex is gone, intamacy of anything more than a kiss bye is gone. She says she is just not interested in that anymore so when we did have sex it felt like I was raping her so I stopped even trying to iniciate, plus the feeling of being pushed away emotionally is devistating. I love her very very much still and always considered love from a marriage as unconditional and I treat it as such. 

I am a wreck and very confused...it has turned me into a man I never ever wanted to be, angry, bitter, mean, short tempered, sinacle...that is not me and she even admits it. I asked her what she loved about me when we first started and she said I was a gentleman, I didn't use her, I was thoughtful and considerate. I know for a fact that that man is still inside me, I had recently started going out again, unfortunately with out her but only because she didn't want to participate, but the people I met actually like me and was interested in me and I made friends with people almost instantly because that man inside we remember was able to come out. Women are still interested in me also, which I was very happy to find out...nothing ever happens of course but it is just nice to know I am wanted.

I am really just wanting to know if what she is doing could ever be okay ever under any circumstance?

I know that is not the entire story and that there is always two sides but that is my side and of course there is alot more. 

I never thought I would possibly be in this position. I feel like I am in the twilight zone hence the name.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Friends are good, but from what you describe, she has replaced you with her friend. Somehow, you need to get across to her that you are not going to put up with this any longer. She needs to either tone it down and start paying attention to you too, or you're going to end the marriage.

If I were you, I would also tell her that you have discovered that other women do find you attractive, even though she doesn't. Maybe that would wake her up.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Uh, not really. Whatever is going on between the girlfriends, the problem is your marital relationship and it has to be fixed if you want it to continue having one. The two sides of this coin are her resisting and your quitting. One of these is completely under your control. You should be moving towards her regardless of what she says or how you think she makes you feel. If your persistence creates a bigger problem then reach out for help to get it fixed


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Friends are good, but from what you describe, she has replaced you with her friend. Somehow, you need to get across to her that you are not going to put up with this any longer. She needs to either tone it down and start paying attention to you too, or you're going to end the marriage.
> 
> If I were you, I would also tell her that you have discovered that other women do find you attractive, even though she doesn't. Maybe that would wake her up.


Thank you for the response Hope! 

Unfortunately we have discussed it and it seems to not matter to her. She also knows about the other women and seems bothered because they now talk to me on FB and text, call, whatever. She is definately jealous and shows it, such as yesterday my brother and I went on a 6mile hike while she was at work and she accused me of going to see someone and still does not believe me even with pictures of the hike posted on FB. Or this morning I took my employees out for breakfast and she accused me of meeting more then them at the restaurant. But it almost feels like she invites it because it warrants her to her actions?!

I am surprised she is surprised with what is happening with the way she treats me.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Uh, not really. Whatever is going on between the girlfriends, the problem is your marital relationship and it has to be fixed if you want it to continue having one. The two sides of this coin are her resisting and your quitting. One of these is completely under your control. You should be moving towards her regardless of what she says or how you think she makes you feel. If your persistence creates a bigger problem then reach out for help to get it fixed


Thanks for your response Ten-Year!

What did I quit though? Trying to advance the intimacy? How many times should I try to sit with her and she moves, how many times should I try to hold her hand and she lets go, how many times should I try to kiss her and get pushed away, etc...is 2 years of it enough?

Plus I have not given up anything other than not wanting to feel like I am raping someone.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

uh, why are you communicating with other women like that?? You said you wanted to improve your marriage - how the heck is THAT helping??

I suggest you get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and read it. now. Before you get in too deep here.

If she won't talk about it, then you talk about it. Schedule MC and invite her, then go even if she doesn't. Get books about improving your relationship (The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by Gottman is a great one) and read them and talk about them with her. Schedule date nights with her and weekends away. Seduce her. And if she still doesn't respond? Then, ultimatum time.

She knows you won't follow through on anything right now. You need to get tough. You are also making a HUGE mistake by carrying on with these other women. Enjoying their attention is one thing - carrying it to the next level and texting etc with them is quite another.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Another Planet said:


> Thanks for your response Ten-Year!
> 
> What did I quit though? Trying to advance the intimacy? How many times should I try to sit with her and she moves, how many times should I try to hold her hand and she lets go, how many times should I try to kiss her and get pushed away, etc...is 2 years of it enough?
> 
> Plus I have not given up anything other than not wanting to feel like I am raping someone.


As many times as it takes. If she won't let you hold her hand or kiss her at all, anytime, ever, I think you need to say something like "is is OK if I hold your hand for a couple minutes"? If she turns down your request many times a day every day, you need to let her know that you think you should be able to do this and ask her to get with the program.

With all due respect, sometimes we have to disconnect from our wive's feelings. Just because she feels a certain way doesn't mean you have to feel that way. Does she scream and flail and run out of the room? If so, you need to suggest nicely that she really needs to talk to someone about this.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

When does it get to the point where I have given it my all without sacrificing anymore of myself because I have no one left, I gave them all up for her and now have no me left? Now I am all alone and talking to you on a forum?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Another Planet said:


> When does it get to the point where I have given it my all without sacrificing anymore of myself because I have no one left, I gave them all up for her and now have no me left? Now I am all alone and talking to you on a forum?


When you've had enough you've had enough. No one here can tell you when that is.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Another Planet - Your problem is between you and your wife. Not her friend. Not other women. You and your wife.

You are only going to make the problem worse by making her jealous. You are going down a slippery slope here. Eventually you will end up in an affair. And you will only justify her in feeling like she should be talking to her friend, withdrawing from your affection, etc.

You need to set some clear and definitive boundaries in your relationship. Don't try to beg to hold her hand. You need to clearly state that in a marriage, you have a right to expect a certain amount of attention, affection and sex from your partner. If you cannot get those things, then you may need to reconsider the marriage. Tell her that if she is giving all of her attention and affection to someone else, if she isn't interested in sex, etc, then suggest marital counseling. Leave it at that and let her make the decision. State what you will and will not accept in your marriage and she can either choose to participate with you or not. Simple as that.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Your wife is getting her emotional needs met by her friend. Please stop talking to other women if you want your marriage to work. Go to a pro-marriage counselor. With or without your wife. If she won't go to counseling, then go yourself. While you go to counseling along with the book Hope mentioned read His Needs, Her Needs. I've read them both. Along with those books, this forum and the need to change the way I do things have greatly improved my marriage.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Another Planet said:


> When does it get to the point where I have given it my all without sacrificing anymore of myself because I have no one left, I gave them all up for her and now have no me left? Now I am all alone and talking to you on a forum?


Dude, where did you learn to talk that way? If you think you are depressed, call your doctor and get some meds. You're not going to get anywhere with that attitude. If you don't have it left in you to tell her nicely and clearly what you need, nothing is going to change. Make her turn you down, again and again. How does she know what it feels like to be raped anyway? Is she an abuse victim? That would certainly explain her behavior


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

I want to get something straight, there is nothing like that with other women my wife just feels that way. Or maybe I am confused with the boundries. Am I not alowed to talk with other women but she is allowed to give everything she can to her girlfriend while only giving the minimum to our family and I?

AND the talking to other women thing just happened within months, our relationship was the same before. I had always been very strict on the rules of boundries with myself because I felt it was very important BUT my wife showed me she doesn't feel the same way from her actions with her friend...because to me what she has done crossed the line.

AND I have literally ruined my businesses to make more time to be able to have the chance to spend time with her and she just talks on the phone or is with her friend like right at this moment.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Another Planet said:


> I want to get something straight, there is nothing like that with other women my wife just feels that way. Or maybe I am confused with the boundries. Am I not alowed to talk with other women but she is allowed to give everything she can to her girlfriend while only giving the minimum to our family and I?
> 
> AND the talking to other women thing just happened within months, our relationship was the same before. I had always been very strict on the rules of boundries with myself because I felt it was very important BUT my wife showed me she doesn't feel the same way from her actions with her friend...because to me what she has done crossed the line.
> 
> AND I have literally ruined my businesses to make more time to be able to have the chance to spend time with her and she just talks on the phone or is with her friend like right at this moment.


Seriously, read Not Just Friends. It spells out exactly what slippery slope you're on. It could also help your wife - it talks about 'friends of the marriage' which it doesn't sound like your wife's friend is.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Dude, where did you learn to talk that way? If you think you are depressed, call your doctor and get some meds. You're not going to get anywhere with that attitude. If you don't have it left in you to tell her nicely and clearly what you need, nothing is going to change


I don't need the tough guy talk, "suck it up" stuff. All that "tell her how it is" stuff has already happened and made it worse. 

Thank you for your opinion though.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Telling and showing are two different things. You have to make sure your wife knows there will be consequences if she doesn't help you help your marriage.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Seriously, read Not Just Friends. It spells out exactly what slippery slope you're on. It could also help your wife - it talks about 'friends of the marriage' which it doesn't sound like your wife's friend is.


Thank you for all the book recommendations I was looking for something but I didn't know where to start. 

You have no idea. I know my wifes friend is just using her to advance her family. My wife and I communicate very well(minus arguing) we know everything, so I did tell her at one point that I thought her friend was just using her and I asked what she thought happens after her friend is done with her and we are ruined from it....wow sounds harse in type but I speak softly and try to make it not harsh. No that sounds pretty bad...darn.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Keep posting. You are not alone, you know. Writing stuff out does really help.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> Telling and showing are two different things. You have to make sure your wife knows there will be consequences if she doesn't help you help your marriage.


I have always felt the "I'll show you approach" is not good. It is like..."I'll show you" "no I'll show you", it just keep going and makes you both bad people. I don't need to teach my wife a lesson, she isn't a dog...I don't know sometimes peoples chemistry doesn't work?


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

That's not what I meant. She needs to know there will be consequences if she doesn't start acting like your wife. Sometimes people will not just listen to words. Words do not have the same affect as actions. Actions = Doing things without her, counseling, loss of your love and affection because she is not nurturing them. Not punishing the dog because he peed on the floor. Two different things. Your wife should know better, the dog doesn't.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Another Planet said:


> All that "tell her how it is" stuff has already happened and made it worse.
> 
> Thank you for your opinion though.


Sorry man, you forgot to share some of those things that already happened with us. 

I was in your position last year. I reeled it all back in but only at great personal cost to myself. I asked my wife directly and frequently to spend more time at home and be more affectionate just like I advised you. She had a fit. She eventually responded by filing divorce papers. I told her fine, let's split everything up right now and be done with it. But after she though things over for a while she decided to stay. There was an extraordinarily difficult transition period but now my sex life is greatly improved because she knows I would let her go tomorrow. Same with kissing and hugging and holding hands. She can feel free to refuse any time she wants to leave. All this with three little kids running around. My life and my kid's lives are indelibly changed. My wife can stay or go as she pleases but if she wants to stay it has to be on terms acceptable to me


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> That's not what I meant. She needs to know there will be consequences if she doesn't start acting like your wife. Sometimes people will not just listen to words. Words do not have the same affect as actions. Actions = Doing things without her, counseling, loss of your love and affection because she is not nurturing them. Not punishing the dog because he peed on the floor. Two different things. Your wife should know better, the dog doesn't.


Everyone is different and it takes all kinds of people to make the world go around. My wife is a foster child who bounced from home to home for 8yrs of her childhood and at one point was adopted with her brother and sister and then she was rejected from that family back into foster care and they kept her sister and brother...she has had a very difficult life and doesn't really know how a normal family works. I love my wife very much and want to help her through this life.

All those actions you speak of other people have already done to her in the worst way and I won't do that to her again.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Sorry man, you forgot to share some of those things that already happened with us.
> 
> I was in your position last year. I reeled it all back in but only at great personal cost to myself. I asked my wife directly and frequently to spend more time at home and be more affectionate just like I advised you. She had a fit. She eventually responded by filing divorce papers. I told her fine, let's split everything up right now and be done with it. But after she though things over for a while she decided to stay. There was an extraordinarily difficult transition period but now my sex life is greatly improved because she knows I would let her go tomorrow. Same with kissing and hugging and holding hands. She can feel free to refuse any time she wants to leave. All this with three little kids running around. My life and my kid's lives are indelibly changed. My wife can stay or go as she pleases but if she wants to stay it has to be on my terms


I am glad to hear that worked out for you! Thank you for talking with me. 

Actually thank you all for talking with me, like I said I don't really have anyone so I sit bottled up trying to understand and just talking about it makes me feel better.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Keep posting. You are not alone, you know. Writing stuff out does really help.


Thank you Hope. Yes, I agree. I have a journal and I will have a drink in my office while playing suduko and write my thoughts down into it at night. It has definately helped.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Another Planet said:


> Everyone is different and it takes all kinds of people to make the world go around. My wife is a foster child who bounced from home to home for 8yrs of her childhood and at one point was adopted with her brother and sister and then she was rejected from that family back into foster care and they kept her sister and brother...she has had a very difficult life and doesn't really know how a normal family works. I love my wife very much and want to help her through this life.
> 
> All those actions you speak of other people have already done to her in the worst way and I won't do that to her again.


I can't begin to imagine how her life experiences have affected her emotionally. Has she been able to find her brother and sister?

With that background, it would make sense that her friend has become "family" to her, like a sister. 

It sounds like there could be a lot going on with your wife, and what family and marriage means to her. Maybe a therapist could help her sort some of this out.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Another Planet said:


> All those actions you speak of other people have already done to her in the worst way and I won't do that to her again.


 The best thing for her is you. Saving your marraige is in her best interest but she just does not know it yet.

Right now she is in an emotional affair (EA) with this other woman (OW). If it were a man and not a woman, the number of texts, phone calls etc. would indicate a very deep EA. Because of this your basic needs as a man are not being met. Read "His Needs, Her Needs" ASAP. As the book will show you, your marraige cannot survive long term under these conditions because, through no fault of your own you are very vulnerable to the advances of another woman. After you read the book, you need to lay down the law and require her to meet your basic needs. As counter intuitive as it sounds, your best chance at saving your marriage is to be willing to leave it if she is not willing to meet your basic needs as a man. Since she is in the fog of a deep EA, she will probably call your bluff and make you file. You must be willing to file and mean it. If she does not take action to save your marriage, then your marriage is already over and you might as will move on and find happiness with one of the many other women that you have discovered are all too willing to make you happy. 

You have a right to expect that your wife care about you before all others. That is the vow that she took. You have a right to expect that she care about meeting your basic needs as a man as outlined in the book. You have a right to be happy. That being said, you are responsible for your own happiness. If your wife does not want to be part of your happiness, then you need to move on and find someone that does. Do not waste another day waiting. You will never get that day back. Take action now. She will not stop cake eating until you stop enabling her to. Do no continue to follow the path set by your wife. She is deep in an EA fog and does not know the way.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Wow TRy, you have been able to say everything I can not articulate...BUT one thing, what if it is me? You guys all know what I have to say but not what she has. I know she has major problems with me(she tells me) so she can't be at full to blame and that is unfair. Nontheless I understand that we are who we are and your words hit hard.

Thank you very much. I will order this book asap...
EDIT: just ordered from Amazon


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Another Planet said:


> Everyone is different and it takes all kinds of people to make the world go around. My wife is a foster child who bounced from home to home for 8yrs of her childhood and at one point was adopted with her brother and sister and then she was rejected from that family back into foster care and they kept her sister and brother...she has had a very difficult life and doesn't really know how a normal family works. I love my wife very much and want to help her through this life.
> 
> All those actions you speak of other people have already done to her in the worst way and I won't do that to her again.


Understandable. It must have been very rough growing up that way. So I'm going to suggest counseling. Look for a Pro-marriage counselor. There is a difference in counselors. If she won't go with you then go alone. With the past history of your wife I can see why this would be very sensitive and you should be advised by a professional. Good Luck.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you just ordered the book. I've read it as well. It has helped my marriage. I hope you can get your wife to read it to.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes, thank you!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I agree. His Needs, Her Needs. Order it, read it. Good luck.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

I want to thank you all again before I go to bed. I have to go for a long weekend tomorrow for my brothers wedding and will try to check in but if I can't...THANK YOU all for giving your time for my wife and I...it means alot to me.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Another Planet said:


> Wow TRy, you have been able to say everything I can not articulate...BUT one thing, what if it is me? You guys all know what I have to say but not what she has. I know she has major problems with me(she tells me) so she can't be at full to blame and that is unfair.


 Notice the book is not titled just "His Needs". It is titled "His Needs, Her Needs" because it is not just about what you as her husband have a right to expect from her, but what she as wife has a right to expect from you. What the book will show you is that your needs and her needs are different, yet often both spouses do not know this. Thus when each of you try to please the other, you will meet needs that are important to you under the false belief that these things are important to the other. For example, of the top needs listed, sex is the number 1 need of men, yet sex does not appear in the top list for women. For another example, of the top needs listed, conversation is the number 2 need for women, yet is does not appear in the top list for men. The dangerous thing about this OW is that she is meeting the conversation need of your wife instead of you. You need to change that and she needs to be willing to let you.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

Just got back in to town... lets just say nothing good happened. I had to go early to help set up and my wife stayed behind and was going to bring the kids two days after. Well one of the nights she ended up staying the night with the kids at her friends house. It just devastated me, she has done it before but I told her this time that I would not like her to and I think that it is innapropriate...she did it anyway. She is also there right now and I told her how it hurts me before she left.

A few weeks ago at my daughters birthday party I also caught the friends husband heavily checking out my wife. I know their marriage is not perfect also...so much wrong the pain is just overwhelming.

Over the weekend I did tell her how I learned what she was doing is considered an emotional affair and is not right and thats why it hurts me so much. Nothing has changed and she thinks that she needs to hear it directly from a counselor because she won't believe the internet.


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