# Not really unfaithful, should I just get over it?



## rbrite79 (Apr 27, 2010)

Hello everyone. I am new to posting, but I have done a lot of reading on these forums over the last year.

I married my husband a little over a year ago. This is my first marriage and his second. His ex-wife was unfaithful (sleeping with his stepfather and then another 9 years later) and finally left him. We went to high school together, and although we were acquainted, never really hung out together. Of course we "met" again through MySpace (wonderful and terrible thing that it is.)
We lived together while we were engaged, in a 30 year old single-wide trailer, with my son and his daughter (preschool age at the time.) I hated living there, was stressed about work (I teach middle school), money, no space, etc. I really put off getting married because I felt we couldn't afford to do it the way I wanted, since it was my first time. He says that he felt our relationship was going nowhere. 
Right around Valentine's Day, I just had this intuition that something was not right. He was logging out of his MySpace, which he never did. So I logged into it. I know I was wrong for not respecting his privacy, but the fact he closed it told me he had something to hide. I found long messages that he had sent to his female "best friend" about how beautiful she was, how he loved her and wanted to be with her, and asking her to marry him. He said that I was great, but that he could never be truly happy with me like he could be with her. FYI, he has about three more "best friends" that are all male. His exwife also had a problem with his feelings for this woman.
Her response was polite, about how romantic that all was, but she loved her boyfriend, and just didn't feel that way about him. He said ok, he'd just be with me.
When he got home I was crying and he knew why immediately. He asked why I looked and I told him. I put my ring down on the counter and walked out. I went to one of my best friends and cried it out to her. Then I came back to get my stuff. I started packing, crying, griping, asking why. He was sorry, said it was a mistake, he felt like we were stuck, but he really wanted me. After talking it out all night, we got the kids and eloped. Yes, in hindsight, not a good idea. I said I wanted to know everything when he talked to her, that there would be no secrets etc.
It has been a year of fights about me checking his MySpace to see when he talks to her because he hasn't always told me. Then he hides it to avoid the fight. Now he has agreed to tell me, because I will freak out anyway. None of the messages are anything but chit-chat. I do not think he would cheat on me, but his friend of his has three children by three different men, none of which she has been married to. I don't think she wants him romantically, but I do not think an emotional affair is unreasonable. I think she likes being admired.
I feel like the second choice, the best he could get. He swears that he takes marriage seriously and that I am the person he truly wants to be with. I have low self esteem anyway, so this just compounds it. Why does he talk to her, now phone her, and arrange to have lunch with her, knowing it hurts me? He says he just misses his friend and that he only wants to be friends with her. Of course he has also told me that he never stops loving someone. I can't stop thinking about if he is comparing us, finding me lacking or fantasizing about being with her or having sex with her. Our sex life is good. He tries to be loving with me, but says I don't initiate as much as he would like. I just always have this in the back of my mind. 
We have a baby now. We went to one session with a counselor. He just said that one of us has to give in (leaning towards me) and that I should trust him. I just want my husband to put my feelings first. Yes, he should be able to have a friend but once he proposed to her, he crossed a line. He is fed up with the fighting and the "games". We know we shouldn't have jumped into marriage but will deal with where we are now. He doesn't want to divorce and neither do I. He is willing to if that's what I want to do. I feel like he is more willing to give up me than her. I already have to send my son to his dad's a few nights a week and really don't want to not see my infant daughter every day. I love him so much and the thought of him seeing her, hugging her, talking about me, makes me sick. I live with a pit in my stomach. Am I unreasonable in wanting to remove a perceived threat to our marriage, or is he right and I should just get over it? 

Sorry so long!


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## breakable (Nov 13, 2009)

I went through something similar after my H's affair. He started projecting on me, and I was actually "best friends" with an ex boyfriend. 
Honestly, I had no romantic feelings for him at all, and my H never had a problem until after the A. 
If this is something that troubles you, then I think he should break off the friendship. I agree it IS crossing the line with things he's said in the past.

I gave up my best friend, when my H really had no reason to worry. It didn't matter that he had no real reason to worry, because for some reason he did - if it is causing problems in my marriage it's not worth it.

Have you calmly talked to your H about her? About how she makes you feel and that you feel it is causing problems in your marriage?


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## rbrite79 (Apr 27, 2010)

We have been around and around about it. So much in fact that he is tired of saying the same things over and over. We went to one session with a counselor and basically set everything out on the table. But the guy more leaned towards how my H would see her with or without me and I should decide if I want to be "right or happy" What a cliche. 
I even emailed his bff and told her my feelings. She agreed and mentioned in marriage "forsaking all others". But after so much round and round where he doesn't see my side I say "fine whatever." He told her I was fine with it. So they are talking again and now planning to have lunch next week. I had a panic attack and he says he's tired of it.
He does have other female friends that I have no problem with. It's just now knowing how he feels about her. I guess if I had never found out I'd be blissfully ignorant and he'd still feel that way about her. We'd all be hanging out together. But now I know and it is tearing us apart.
Also, I told his mom about it, although he doesn't know that. She wonders what the heck he's thinking and is ready to come here and give him a talking to. I say no because he'd be furious. I just knew she would understand since my H's ex-wife slept with her then husband. Ugh drama.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Let me get this straight. He told this woman he loved her, wanted to marry her, and would leave you for her - but he's STILL talking to her? This needs to stop, immediately. What he did was a MAJOR betrayal. He was going to dump you for her for God's sake, that my dear is cheating in a big way.

It's not unreasonable to ask that he cut all ties with the woman he was pursuing behind your back - while you were with him. If he doesn't understand that, then something is really wrong.

Talk to a counselor that truly understands what it means to put a marriage first. You come first, your feelings and your happiness, the same way he would come first if the shoe were on the other foot.


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## jitterbug (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm so sorry to be harsh---but your counselor is an idiot!!!


Your H doesn't seem to be grasping how much this hurts you.

I can't believe he would expect you to be o.k. with him having one-on-one lunches with a woman he was infatuated with---who maintained a "friendship" with _behind you back_. He completely disrespected you by continuing his communication with her.It's pouring salt into a very deep wound.

For him to expect you to just "get over it" is piling insult on injury.
It completely invalidates your feelings---and IMO, invalidation is a form of emotional abuse.

You titled your post, "Not Really Unfaithful"----actually he has been unfaithful.Doing anything behind you back, knowing full well that it will hurt you--is being unfaithful. He has demonstrated disloyalty, and now the onus is on him to regain your trust, by providing transparency.

Please find a new counselor.I'd also recommend that you and your H read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass---maybe it will help to open his eyes.

I'm very sorry for the pain you're going through, I can empathize.


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## rbrite79 (Apr 27, 2010)

Yes, that counselor was an idiot. Of course, I tell my H that and he says "Of course, I should have know that if he takes my side he'd be an idiot. He's a professional, YOU wanted to go." etc. Yes I picked the guy, but I knew nothing about him.
My H seems to think that it was different since we were dating and not yet married. That everything changes now that we are married. He says he made a commitment and will stick to it. He has told me some of the times he emailed with her, but not all. He wanted to avoid the fight. He has now agreed to tell me when he talks to her since I'll get mad anyway. He keeps his iPhone with him at all times, but he says all I have to do is ask and tell him why I want to see it. His Facebook is always open, but she isn't on Facebook. He keeps MySpace logged out and changed the password at some point. He says he has nothing to hide. He says he has been "punished enough" and is tired of feeling guilty and being checked up on. He says he hid his MySpace because he doesn't trust me not to look.
He says it took a long time, but he had to just move on after his wife's infidelity. That he was willing to do anything to make it work. Then she did it again nine years later and divorced him for the guy.
Basically he is fed up with me. It is me getting over it or leaving. I'm 30 years old and this is my first marriage because the old me would have said "F you" and packed my stuff when it happened. And I did that with a few people, including my son's father. I don't know why I loved him so much that I stayed and married him. And the fact that I could leave and he would just accept it infuriates me. He is willing to go to counseling, but feels it is pointless. That last guy made me feel that way too. I guess I can just try again. In the meantime, he'll be having lunch with her and I'll be in a classroom of 30 12 year olds trying to hold it together.


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## jitterbug (Feb 13, 2010)

Um, but you weren't just dating while he was attempting to woo the other woman.

You were _living together_, *engaged*....what he did was the equivalent of cheating.

And double-shame on your H---if he went through the pain of being betrayed by infidelity himself---he should have some empathy and compassion for how his actions made you feel.

While I'm not an expert on therapy, I'm well-read enough to have figured out that they vary tremendously in their schools of thought.There's still a lot that don't acknowledge the damage that can be done by emotional affairs.

Bottom -line--your H needs to choose which is more important to him ---keeping a friendship where he can get tossed bread crumbs of attention from a woman who already rejected him

(all the while giving you an ulcer.......)Or having a happy marriage.He can't do both.He needs to choose.

It raises a red flag to me that he's still insisting on keeping his MySpace private, when that was the very vehicle he used to maneuver behind your back before. Does he not understand the concept of triggers?.Especially since he's been through it himself..........

Maybe you could approach him by asking him to recall what he went through during that time in his marriage.......and then let him know that's what you're experiencing now.........


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## rbrite79 (Apr 27, 2010)

jitterbug said:


> Maybe you could approach him by asking him to recall what he went through during that time in his marriage.......and then let him know that's what you're experiencing now.........


It makes me feel a little better to know that most of this stuff you guys are saying, I have already done. In fact, I asked him about how he felt last night. He doesn't give any specifics, just that it hurt, he went through all of those feelings, but he just had to put it aside and have a happy marriage. And he says he did for 9 years. Of course something had to be missing for her to do it again.
He says he refuses to choose. I say that by refusing to say "I will do anything to keep you." he is choosing. He is choosing her.

Well, after all this I can't decide if I want to try a different counselor or cut my losses and pack up. Every bit of my pride and logic says "go." Financially, I am much more stable than he, and I have a place to go, while he has nowhere. I own another home with my mother, he could not keep this house alone. I just really want to have my daughter all the time. I love my house and I love my H. My mother had 3 failed marriages and I didn't associate with my father until I was 19, and now very rarely. Needless to say I know I do not need him. I just waited this long and I really wanted it to work. I guess if I leave I will be a lot more upset than he.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

His wife's infidelity has NOTHING to do with you. NOTHING at all. It shouldn't even be a topic. She cheated, he was hurt. Perhaps he needs some counseling on his own to deal with it, but bringing that into your marriage and using it as justification to treat you in a less than honorable way is inexcusable.

He is threatening you with "If you don't like it, leave." Call his bluff and leave. My bet is he'll drop her like a hotcake in order to get you back. Do you honestly feel he would want his daughter to be in your shoes? He does not honor her by treating her mother that way either. 

Think about this, your daughter is going to mirror the woman you are, and nine times out of ten, pick a man that treats her as her father treats her mother. Who do you want her to be? How would you wish for her to be treated and what would hurt you if she settled for less than what she deserved? Would you want her to settle for a man that would knowingly continue a relationship with another woman that he had feelings for, told her he would dump you for her, and then continue to hide things - such as his myspace?

Honey, of course it will hurt for you to leave. It will hurt like a band aid being pulled off - sharp, but temporary. Isn't it better than this long slow bleeding you've been going through this whole time, and especially now that he's even pursuing seeing this woman face to face?


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## jitterbug (Feb 13, 2010)

Are you familiar with the concept of the "180"?


It sounds to me like that's the point your at right now, if communicating and counselling isn't making any progress.Do a search, and read up on it, it seems to have positive results from what I've read in other threads here.

Interesting how this female "friend" was also an issue in your H's first marriage, that his wife was also uncomfortable with the nature of that friendship. I wonder if he was demonstrating the same attitude towards his 1st wife...running off to have to have lunch w/his "friend', and communicating with her secretly...I wonder if that was a factor in his 1st wife's decision to be unfaithful. Revenge, perhaps?

She may have very well been driven to her wit's end as well.
Not that it excuses her infidelity, it's not a justification, just a contributing factor.

Your H is trying to be a cake eater.......his actions are showing that he's not putting much stock in your feelings. Maybe your best bet is to send him packing----perhaps then he'll wake up and see what he's losing:
The love of a family 24/7 vs. being able to have lunch once in awhile with a woman who rejected him.........

He's going to be in for a very rude awakening by making her his emotional priority....Wonder how her boyfriend's going to feel about all that......hmmmm.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

This is a simple matter of respect and consideration. There's an awful lot of this exact same situation on these boards. He needs to understand there should be nothing about his actions and motives that make you wonder or suspect. There should be nothing he devotes himself to that takes his attention, love, affection, respect, etc. away from you. There should be nothing he does that causes you pain.

He says he's tired of the conflict but the truth is he is enjoying it. If he weren't enjoying it, he would end it by respecting you and your wishes. I'm not trying to say he *enjoys* torturing you. The affect of his actions on you are inconsequential to him (meaning he doesn't give a darn). He is enjoying letting you know you will not control him, you will not tell him what to do, he will not sacrifice anything for you and the sake of his marriage. This is despite the fact that it's not at all a matter of control or trying to tell him what to do. Additionally, he is enjoying his relationship with his "friend" and love interest.

Not that it matters to you my likes and dislikes, I just want to say how much I hate for women to sit down and take whatever their man dishes out. If you do nothing, you are just sitting there taking it, allowing him to tell you your feelings do not matter, he does not have to respect your wishes, he has no commitment to the marriage, and so on. That is what you are taking. While I hate it, I cannot make you get up and leave. I can't make you do anything but really wonder why you are not doing anything. The bottom line is, if you do nothing, you are complaining for nothing; all the fights are for nothing; your hurt feelings are for nothing. You might as well smile and be happy with the situation because you aren't doing anything about it. Now that you have confirmation from people on the internet, it still doesn't matter that you are right if you do nothing. Or like the therapist stated, "you can be right, or you can be happy." Those are your choices. The way I see it, you can either leave or you can try doing the same to him. At this point, doing the same probably won't matter to him because you've made such a fuss for so long, he will likely know what you are up to and will stand his ground.

The thing is, when your husband essentially tells you to accept his disrespect or leave, you are supposed to make your choice between the options he offered. Accept it or leave. It's just that simple. You have to recognize he has made his choice, but you're not getting it. You're busy standing on principle and your hurt feelings. At this point, I wouldn't even accept him agreeing to cut ties with her. Perhaps he would be doing it for my sake, but - after all this that has been made of the subject, after him choosing her over me, after him disrespecting our marriage, after him telling me in so many words that my feelings and wishes don't matter - him acquiescing wouldn't be nearly enough. But that's just me.

I know how you feel. I know how emotions rule our actions, and we are so hurt that we can't muster the presence of mind to take action. I know how it goes when we are so hurt that all we want is his hug and kiss and to hear "I love you." But you can't have more invested in your marriage than he does, and he doesn't have much, not when he chooses another woman. Another way to look at is, if your leaving does not wake him up, then you'll know that is what he wanted anyway. So why would you even want to stay?


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## rbrite79 (Apr 27, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your input. I am taking notes on what you say and will take them to my counselor to help organize my thoughts.

Also while he was with ex, said bestie was in another state and he didn't talk to her. Ex had a problem with jealousy and he thinks she wanted to "get the jump on" him cheating on her. Whatever. People cheat because something is missing.

When he came home yesterday I very calmly told him I wanted to talk to him. I am, in fact, amazed at how calm I was. When he started to raise his voice, I told him to stop, that I was being calm and so should he. I told him that I wanted to see another counselor and that I was going to stay at my mothers until we do. He said the same old stuff, "Ok, but you didn't like the last one. Why would it be any different." I told him about how him not caring about my feelings is the real underlying issue. He says he's a grown man and no one should tell him who he can and can't be friends with. I said I don't want to tell you, I want you to not want to hurt me. He doesn't want to hurt me. "But you still are every time you talk to her. And you know it." But by doing this I am telling him who he can be friends with. She's not just a friend. You crossed a line. And you are willing to give up your marriage to occasionally hang out with a woman that rejected you. On and on with me pointing out everything I have said and you guys have pointed out. I also was having this calm conversation, while holding the baby. I wanted him to physically see what was walking out the door. 
He finally said that he at least wanted to see her once and that he would think about ending their friendship. That he didn't think it was fair to just cut her off but to explain things to her. Again, more consideration for her feelings, but whatever. I said, fine, you see her, then we'll decide if we need to make an appointment with a counselor or with lawyers. And I packed our things. 
And you are cheering for me. Let me go on.
I was so calm and just relieved to be doing something. He was visibly upset. He doesn't really ever cry, but I could tell he was close. After I packed I laid down on the bed beside him and made him look at me. I told him to tell me what he thought were the good things about our relationship (something I read on another thread.) He gave me many reasons. That we are good together, we fill in each other's gaps. etc. I also wanted him to tell me what he loved about me and I told him what I love about him. It may seem weak to some, but my goal was for him to see what he would be giving up to maintain this friendship. He said we were only making it hurt worse by doing this. In my mind I said "Good, you should hurt more. YOU are the one doing this. Not me by not just getting over it."
Then the baby was crying to be fed and his mom called me back. He fed the baby while I talked to her. She said she doesn't understand why he has to see her to decide. Agreed, but I am capable of giving a little. Then when he asked who I was talking to, I told him his mother (he did not know she knew.) Of course he was angry, but I also thought about "exposing the affair." He said he was not angry that I talked to his mom, just that I didn't check with him first that family was off limits. Sorry, I said, I needed to talk to someone who knew you and understands what I am going through. She is also a nurse and said that I have had all of the symptoms of depression and that after the last two-and a half years (this, husband laid off twice, marriage, work, new baby) it is completely understandable. Of course she is also medicated, but I say she has an excuse too (husband having affair with daughter in law). I told him I would work on my depression and that we could see a counselor to work on us.
After all that I wound up staying. Had to put baby to bed, etc. I know you may think "Boo!" but I really want to press on him how good I am and not give him a reason to say "Good riddance." I am, however sticking to my guns about counselor or lawyers. In fact, when he comes home today he will see windows up on how I have searched both. After how calm I was yesterday I know that I have the power to leave whenever I want and be ok.
I also talked to my bff yesterday. He is male, gay (and not even questionably), and lives in another state. He said he is starting to think that our mothers have it right (mine, his, my MIL). They live alone, and don't bother with men because they have been screwed over so many times. I guess we do wind up like our mothers. Like Susan said I do want more for my daughter, even if I have to kick her fathers a$$ one way or another.
Sorry I am so detailed, I am new to this forum stuff


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## rbrite79 (Apr 27, 2010)

Oh, and I should mention that he said he gave me all his passwords before and that it's not his fault I forgot them. Maybe he did and I have them wrong in my head because I never had to use them. He just stayed logged in. I should make him write them down...


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## jitterbug (Feb 13, 2010)

Actually I'm not saying "Boo!"---I'm hoping you'll be able to salvage your M.

I think you handled things rather well. It's very difficult to remain calm, and discuss things rationally when emotions are running high, but in my experience, it's the only way to be heard.

(if you yell at somebody, they don't hear what you say, they just react to the volume and tone..)

Nor do I think you're weak for asking him to discuss the good points of your relationship.I think that was a smart move on your part......reminding him of what he was about to lose.

The only thing that raised my eyebrow in your last lengthy post, was your H saying that family should be off-limits. Technically, that is now _your_ family, too......

No need to apologize for the lengthy posts BTW, I believe it's helpful for organizing your thoughts. The more you share, the more info we have to hopefully give you helpful advice.

The only point I partially disagree with you about is your statement,
_"People cheat because something is missing."_

I agree that's often the case, but there are cases where the cheater is getting treated like a king/queen, but they still want more. It's not always the fault of the betrayed spouse.Some waywards are simply cake eaters. Some are incapable of empathy. Some are even twisted enough to get an ego boost from being able to "pull one over" on the person at home.(that's delving into the realm of personality disorders, NPD, ASPD, etc.)
Sad, but unfortunately true.

Sometimes people cheat not because something is missing in the marriage, but because something is missing in themselves.


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## rbrite79 (Apr 27, 2010)

Jitterbug, I think my H wanted to have a chance to convince me his mother is crazy before I talked to her. Oh well!
And yes, people cheat for many reasons. I have done a lot of reading on Marriage Builders and other sites today.
I am feeling very empowered today. I fell like regardless of his decision about his friend I will go on and be fine. With or without him. I am certain now that I can leave. Of course, I tried to go run errands today and my power steering went out. Turns out a belt has slipped off and I have to wait for the rain to stop so I can get my uncle to fix it. So H has to drive me to work tomorrow and maybe Tuesday. I guess I'll let you know how things go with his lunch.


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## jitterbug (Feb 13, 2010)

Glad to hear you're feeling empowered today. Situations like the one you're in can really take the wind outta your sails.

I've been in a situation similar to yours, with a female friend of my SO wreaking havoc in our relationship, and I recognized a lot of the attitudes and justifications your H made---I heard the same spiel from my SO. ("get over it') (boy, that particular phrase is really starting to annoy me. It's pure invalidation..)

So, I empathize with what you're experiencing. I also went through the phase of second-guessing myself---(am I overreacting??)........until I realized that my point of view and feelings were being disregarded.........then I got angry, I realized I was being gaslighted.(enough about me, this is your thread.....)

It helps that you're communicating from a strong position, and that you're not financially dependent on him---I've read a lot of threads where the woman is dependent, and therefore afraid to "rock the boat"---she'll put up & shut up for fearing of being on her own.

I'll keep my fingers crossed on your behalf that your H will come out of the fog, with a greater self-awareness, as well as a greater empathy for how you're feeling.

Please do update, I'll be curious to know how this plays out....
especially since your story is similar to mine.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

A story for you....
My husband and I have been married for nearly 17 years. During our first few years of marriage he was working at his father's company. He struck up a friendship with a woman that worked with him. He would come home and tell me about her, how nice she is, how much I would like her, we should all be friends, she has a daughter the same age as our son, etc. etc. She was recently divorced and very young, the same age as us. We had a child at 21 so it was hard for us to meet others in our situation. I thought, okay, cool. I would like to meet her. I met her and did not like her at all. She was way to flirty, too overt and very aggressive towards my husband. Being 22 at that time I kind of shook off my feelings. Months went on and he would come home telling me about how they would go out to lunch (he paid), how she was having financial trouble paying her bills, she needed baby clothes, etc. etc. He asked if there was any clothes that we weren't using, toys, etc. I questioned him and he said that she doesn't have a husband anymore and that he isn't paying child support and she is struggling. I rounded up whatever infants clothing we weren't using, toys and he brought them in to work. Fast forward many many months. She would call him all the time. This predates cell phones and texts so it was our home phone. All hours of the night. She needed advice on her baby, she thought she heard a noise, the car wasn't working what should she do. She never wanted to speak to me, just him. I told him that I really disliked her and that she was trying to "poach" him. He just laughed and said she was just a friend. There was the occasional weekend he would go over to her apartment to help her with things. Sometimes I would go, sometimes not. He would come home and again talk about her plight and he really did feel sorry for her. I told him again that she is trying to poach you. He would tell me over and over that she is really just a friend and he is trying to help her out. I asked him not to be her friend anymore and he couldn't understand my thinking. He really thought of her as just a friend. I knew that she did not feel the same way. Fast forward another several months of this **** and it was the big company summer party at my in-laws house. I was sick with a cold and could not go. My husband went and brought our son. She also went but did not bring her daughter. The company picnic was a big pool party. Everybody brought their family for swim time. She showed up in a bikini that barely covered her ass while the other women showed up in a one piece that would be appropriate for a company party. The party went on and as it became dark most started to leave. Not her. She stuck around because she had other things on her mind. She walked up to my husband and said "would you like to go skinny dipping once everybody is gone?". He was shocked. He told her he is married, you met my wife, she gave you clothes, my son is here, what the hell are you doing?. To which she replied "I don't give a **** about your wife, let your parents take care of "the kid" while you and I get busy in the pool". He left, went back in to his parents house and called me very upset. He said that I was right all along, she is no friend and that she was the "poacher" that I had called her. He was disgusted with himself for not have seeing what I did all along.
The moral of the story is that any friend of your spouse should be a friend of the marriage. If they are not, then they have no business in your lives.


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