# Child support question again: a bit deeper than previous



## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

My middle son came home blabbing about his mother getting a job promotion that involves a $50,000 raise. I went to the company website and sure enough, her job title has changed but of course, her salary isn't posted.

I am still paying her support but it will drop significantly (I will still owe her) in a year, when our youngest leaves daycare.

Here's the rub. . .honestly, we both are professionals and I wanted to set it up originally the way my attorney wanted to - no claim to child support, she carries insurance, we both part ways, no money exchanges hands. Simple, neat and clean.

But, she wouldn't hear of it so she has tried to nickel and dime me every step of the way.

I think it was just part of her value system, "A man should made to pay, dam the formula's!!!!"

Last year, I had to defend myself in court over 5 motions, all which were denied, one of them being she thought I should have to pay for school lunches.

My girlfriend can't even believe she's obsessing over school lunches, but now she has cancelled her credit card so the kids can't charge their lunches to her card, thereby forcing me to pony up, even though the Judgment specifically says that's part of child support.

Oy. Such drama.

My question that's supposed to be in here somewhere:

Should I petition the court for a reduction? It's been almost 2 years and I have been on time.

I am still paying off my attorney from the last time.

Here's my feelings. If I knew in my heart of hearts she wouldn't petition me every time SHE got a bug up her butt, I would just wish her well and congratulate her on her raise and promotion.

But she just isn't like that. If it were opposite, you can bet she'd be all over me like a fly on crap.

I haven't talked to my attorney yet. . .my gf says the petitioning process is relatively straight-forward and I guess there is a process of discovery and disclosure.

Any advice? I don't know. . .maybe my 9 year old son was just making the whole thing up too.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Well, in my state the total amount goes up when there is an increase. Under this sort of scenario, your percentage of contribution would go down, but the total amount would likely go up, or stay the same. Look at the spreadsheet or formula that is used to calculate support, plug in the new numbers, and then figure out if it's worth it. You might not have to use an attorney if it's just a matter of petitioning under some clause that allows you to do that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, I used an online calculator and my child support actually goes to zero. I am not sure if I did it right though.

Let me say. . .it would be welcome relief.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hell yes, do it. Why WOULDN'T you?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Hope,

Sounds crazy, but I only want good relations with this unreasonable woman. If it meant good relations, I'd keep paying the child support.

(yeah, crazy, but true)

Most men (and this is why I posted it in the Men's Lounge) just want to go our way and be done with it when we divorce. 

I am not trying to gold-dig or convert my marriage into a 15 year annuity as long as the kids are young.

Most women I find just the opposite. . .given the chance, they'll go for the jugular - she's fighting over school lunches for crying out loud when she's making upper 5 figures or now perhaps mid 6 figures.

I'm sorry, but my own life experiences have proven this prejudice to be true for the most part.

I guess it's my own dysfunction. . .I keep thinking if I be nice and play nice, she'll be nice, but everything for the last 15 years and especially the last 2 years has proven that to be untrue about her.

Maybe I can call her employer and ask what "pay grade" her position is to extrapolate what she makes in a range and see if this is even true or something my 9 year old was talking out his butt. (as 9 year olds often do).

She is unfortunately a sneak and her word is to not be trusted.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I take a lot less than the formula says I can.
That way I feel better about my lifestyle.
I COULD take a full time job, but I prefer to live a simpler, more frugal lifestyle and to spend more time with my kids. 
Also, the times when I ask their dad to pick them up or drop them off here, vs. halfway or 1/3 way for me, I feel better about it. 
And when he wants the kids more, I don't worry about saying yes if the kids want to go, and then having their support slashed on account of it. It's already low. 
The other thing is child care, when I need it - which is rarley, because of my lifestyle - it's expensive, so having less income lowers the cost of the child care, since it's sliding scale. If I had more support, I'd also be working more, and then I'd need more child care, the bottom line would be the same, I'd spend more time working and commuting and less time with my kids, and my kid with the disability wouldn't be accommodated as well, also we'd be using up more resources like dog sitter and car and tires and mileage and risk in the winter and stuff just falling apart logistically when kids are out of school or someone is sick.

Not all women go for the jugular. Some are content to take what's really necessary to care for their kids, and don't like to take money that they don't need, out of the pocket of the other parent, which is really the same as taking money out of your kids' day to day lives when they are with the other parent. 

My kids have grandparents on their dads' sides which have trust funds. I can afford to live my lifestyle because I know it will only affect me in the long run. I don't have to worry about leaving behind some kind of estate for my kids' benefit if something were to happen to me. So I give them the best gift I can give them, which is my time together with them, and do it frugally. We have a lot of fun, and are close. No amount of extra money can really provide that. I'm suspicious of anyone who says it can.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

5 petitions in the last year and you want to play Mr. Nice Guy.

Wow.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm not like your wife whatsoever. When I left my first husband, a court order went in place for child support from him - a hundred something dollars for three kids. Yes, seriously. He worked under the table and his taxes showed he had no income. When we divorced it went up to just over $500 a month. I have never taken him to court for anything since.

I didn't really care. I knew I'd never get anything and I just wanted to be DONE with him. That was 18 years ago, and today he owes me over $65,000 because he has never paid unless something was garnisheed.

When I split with my current hubby in 2010 for a few months, I didn't make him pay anything, despite the fact all 3 kids were still at home and two were still young enough to get it. I make more money than him so what's the point?? I'd way rather rely on no one but myself. I'm a lot more like a guy in other ways too - tonight I'm going home to drink beer and watch football :smthumbup:

I honestly don't understand gold diggers.


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## Cara (Aug 15, 2010)

"I guess it's my own dysfunction. . .I keep thinking if I be nice and play nice, she'll be nice, but everything for the last 15 years and especially the last 2 years has proven that to be untrue about her."

You know what they say about nice guys? Besides, in the next sentence you answered your own question. I really dont mean to sound mean, but you are coming off really weak. To me all this junk always comes down to whats best for the kids, and another aspect of that is showing them a strong, father who doesnt take crap from his petty ex-wife. Child support, while necessary most of the time, is a real tragedy when it is used by the recipient to abuse the payer. She is, if what your son said is true, STEALING from you. Thats a big deal and at some point your kids will see how you are letting a woman control and take advantage of you. Remember, they live in their future what they saw in their past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Check with a lawyer before trying to go for a reduction. Here in NY it's 17% of your yearly income for one child. Doesn't matter what your wife makes. The sliding % for things like daycare, private school and health insurance depends on income. If you both make the same amount the the cost for that is 50% each in addition to the child support. Every state is different. Look online for your state. 

If you go for a reduction and your income went up you could be paying more.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> Check with a lawyer before trying to go for a reduction. Here in NY it's 17% of your yearly income for one child. Doesn't matter what your wife makes. The sliding % for things like daycare, private school and health insurance depends on income. If you both make the same amount the the cost for that is 50% each in addition to the child support. Every state is different. Look online for your state.
> 
> If you go for a reduction and your income went up you could be paying more.


New York is a joke.

Lived there long enough to figure it out.


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

Scanner,
You must fully evaluate the circumstances as they are now. Fully trusting what your child says about a pay raise is not the best idea. Ex-spouses tend to brag to the children knowing it is going to get back to you in an attempt to make you jealous. You must investigate further. Each state has formulas as spelled out by statute. You need to take your current income and your best guess of her current income and plug them in and see where you land. I personally wouldn't recommend going for a reduction unless there is significant savings. By this, I would mean at least a 20% reduction. 

If you do go for the reduction, you don't need an attorney. The forms are pretty straight forward and the filing fee is small (Here in VA anyway). All the judge is going to care about at the hearing is proof of yours and your wife's income. If she did get the raise and your income and time spent with the child hasn't changed, then you should get the reduction.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> Well, I used an online calculator and my child support actually goes to zero. I am not sure if I did it right though.
> 
> Let me say. . .it would be welcome relief.


Do you live in California? They have an online calculator.

If you do, I know of a company that will calculate using the Dissomaster software that the court uses. They only charge $40 to run it.. and you can have it run up to 10 times.

We used it with my brother's divorce. Their caclulations matched the court medator's calculations to the penny every time.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Figure out how much you will save. If the savings will cover the attorney's fees go for it.

If you think she will lie about her income, our attorney can supena her company for her pay etc.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Conrad&Janie said:


> New York is a joke.
> 
> Lived there long enough to figure it out.


Agreed! You have to pay child support here until 21. I wouldn't mind that if the child is going to college. Doesn't matter here though, child can sit on his butt after high school without a job or college and collect a check.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> Agreed! You have to pay child support here until 21. I wouldn't mind that if the child is going to college. Doesn't matter here though, child can sit on his butt after high school without a job or college and collect a check.


Just more "compassion" for those who choose not to work.

Must be in the water supply there.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Agreed again!


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

So, just to clarify by "professionals" I'm assuming you mean - you both make a fair amount of money. 

However, there's really no such thing as a "clean" and total break in an old marriage when there are children involved. Why is it that you originally felt she should get all of the responsibility for paying for the children? In addition, she seems to have custody. 

If you go for a decrease, and it is granted, I don't think you should be as concerned about keeping peace with her. I think you should ponder how your children might think about that. How do you think she's going to spin that? (Daddy doesn't think you are worth it.) How are you planning on explaining it in a way that will elevate that fear?

And - if, as you yourself say, you are making a fair amount of money, even if it's less than her, shouldn't your primary concern be the children's welfare (including mental and emotional) not getting back at her for being a "gold digger."


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

No, I have about 35-40% parenting time. . .that was on her request actually until the end, when she did an about face with what the child support money calculations came in at.

In fact, HER own attorney said, "I thought you wanted me to petition that he parent more!" when she protested.

My attorney had suggested the "healthiest" thing for us to do would be no child support either way. . .just split, stop exchanging money, she picks up health insurance because she makes more. Parent 50/50.

And one of my kids has practically been living with me the whole summer, because he is on swim team and she said she wanted nothing to do with swim team so really, I have been taking him extra overnights (and am happy to do so and haven't asked to be reimbursed for them, nor do I think I should).

I have a call into my attorney this morning.

Gawd. I hate to even call him. He must roll his eyes every time he gets a call from me. I don't blame him.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I want to also say, in my defense (not that I think this kind of defense woudl earn points with any judge), I don't nickel and dime, or I try not to with my kids. If they need a haircut, I go get it. If they need a piece of sports equipment, I buy it. I take them extra overnights my way but never hardly does she take them extra her way.

What provoked this whole thing is she perhaps got a $50,000 raise and she keeps coming at me to pay for school lunches on the days I have custody of them.

You know what? I actually had conceded to that, before, BEFORE she decided to make a court case out of it and add it to the other 4 motions she filed against me, one of them being the right to audit my tax return every year.

But when she did, I had to defend myself to the tune of $2500 to win on that point (and the other 4 points, which I basically won on).

Now, she's cancelling the school lunch being linked to her credit card to "get back at me."

That was the "tipping point." I could very much wish her well and continue to pay child support but she's going to get a 50K raise and fuss about $18-30/month in school lunches? 

I liked what one person said - it is akin to stealing from me.

This is what it is like to deal with her. I do honestly think about "checking out" sometimes but I guess it's better to show the boys you have confront women like this sometimes, lest they marry someone who walks all over them.


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## Conrad&Janie (Jul 2, 2012)

Sounds like you were the one that wanted the original divorce.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think that if Child Support is based on time spent with children and the incomes of the two spouses, then I see no reason why it shouldn't be revisited each time either of these things change.

I don't see why you even have to ask. If she is getting a $50,000 a year raise, the child support formula should be re-worked based on that. 

Isn't there something in the divorce that states that this is supposed to happen?


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Yes, in a lot of states you just have to file for a modification, no atty needed
She will have to prove what she makes not just her word, they(court) will contact her employer to verify her earnings...they go by whats legal (scale) not what you or her thinks is fair, she will have to pay if it is ordered, some states take it right out of thier paycheck...


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Starstarfish said:


> So, just to clarify by "professionals" I'm assuming you mean - you both make a fair amount of money.
> 
> However, there's really no such thing as a "clean" and total break in an old marriage when there are children involved. Why is it that you originally felt she should get all of the responsibility for paying for the children? In addition, she seems to have custody.
> 
> ...


I am wondering if this would be the same response if it was the Man who was getting a $50,000 raise.

I just find it strange that this is even a question. If I was paying child support, based on what I am making, and I get a $50,000 a year raise, I would expect the child support to change. It is based on income levels and the levels changed. She should be telling her ex, he shouldn't have to petition for anything.

Why would he have to explain this to his kids? The mom would look foolish if she tried to explain it any other way than what it is. She got a raise and so child support changed.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, SadSam,

That's why I did post it in the Men's Lounge. . .to explore the topic of Male/Female Psychology and Bias, along with get some advice.

I actually have good friends and family coming down on this issue of 3-1-1 (Mom abstained, lol).

The 1 against is my girlfriend who said, "Well, if you end up paying no child support, you'd actually be okay with that?" (she has 3 kids, 2 fathers, 2 child support checks)

And that's psychology. . .her and my ex-wife could be in absolute disbelief that the "System" would allow for the fact I could end up not owing anything by virtue of parenting time and incomes and that somehow seems "wrong" to a lot of women.

To give credit, my ex-gf was along the lines of the forum - yeah, why not? But she always joked that her ex-boss said she thinks like a man.

The thinking is, I believe (and women here can speak to this), that "You Impregnated Me. You Owe Me!"

I think that's probably a default psychology of the courts, although these things do tend to be formulaic.

Hey, I'll even admit. . .as a guy, something seems wrong about not paying any child support, even though I am parenting, involved, income discrepancy.

We are conditioned to pony up and that's why I have attorneys do the thinking for me.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> The thinking is, I believe (and women here can speak to this), that "You Impregnated Me. You Owe Me!"


Many women may think this way - I am certainly not one of them.

How can women think this way when we've been fighting for decades to have the right to CHOOSE whether to carry a baby to term in the first place??


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

If she makes enough, that the formula ends up calculating that she pays you child support and you pay nothing, then what is the issue?

There are people out there that are receiving alimony and child support. This would be based on their income levels, ability to earn, etc.

What difference does it make if these 'people' are men or women?

PS I would be leery of the attitude of your girlfriend.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> The thinking is, I believe (and women here can speak to this), that "You Impregnated Me. You Owe Me!"


I see a lot of that.

Then again, most women don't earn nearly as much as their husbands and most women DO take on 75% of all childrearing.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> If she makes enough, that the formula ends up calculating that she pays you child support and you pay nothing, then what is the issue?
> 
> There are people out there that are receiving alimony and child support. This would be based on their income levels, ability to earn, etc.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> And that's psychology. . .her and my ex-wife could be in absolute disbelief that the "System" would allow for the fact I could end up not owing anything by virtue of parenting time and incomes and that somehow seems "wrong" to a lot of women.
> 
> The thinking is, I believe (and women here can speak to this), that "You Impregnated Me. You Owe Me!"


I'm in awe of how many women that claim to be rational and logical and in full support of equality completely go off the entitlement deep end and run on emotion only when it comes to this topic -- especially if they are the primary breadwinners/career women with stay-at-home dads. 

I recently went through a 30%+ reduction of income - though it's still 6-fig, and filed for a modification of support according to the state formula (down to state maximum from over). My ex-w was pushing her attorney to fight it tooth and nail, until he sat her down and pointed out that if the state formula was applied, which is what the judge would have to do to settle the dispute, she would actually get noticeably less than I offered. She's still screaming about how she "was robbed" of "her rightful money", not once considering that... if we were still together and married, we would be forced to make do on less and adjust to the change in economic fortunes. Originally, she believed that the child support payments were actually guaranteed by the state and she would get it even if I was out of work and broke.

It's really hard to have any respect for someone who is not only so self-centered but *willfully chooses* to ignore basic math and stay ignorant of how the real-world works.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Actually, as everyone's painting me as biased towards the gender-normative, let me clarify - my response would be the same whether, male or female, gay or straight, when we are talking about folks making a fair amount of money, and who are fighting, or began fighting, from the information given about the agitation on the demand for $30 for school lunches.

And, no, I didn't say it -should- come up, but by all provided information the ex-wife is hateful and vindictive, well, then, as a former child once in the middle of similar proceedings myself (long story) I can say - if it can be used as fuel, it likely will be. 
Will Mom look foolish for bringing it up, I don't know, ultimately it's all he-said she-said. 

I was just presenting the possibility it might come up, take that for what it is - an idea. Not a praise for it coming up, not support, just the idea that it might. 

And my thought was - for me, $30 wouldn't be worth that. But, again, I don't know how much money we are actually talking about things being reduced by, and that's the only working value I have to comment on, that's noted.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Oh, God, yeah, the school lunches.

My thought is since the court order says she cannot seek reimbursement from me on school lunches and she did cancel their accounts to her credit card that I just pick them up and show the court she willfully ignored the court order.

I don't know.

My attorney's office didn't call me back yesterday so I just sent him a letter outlining my questions and told him to call me when he had time. I'm sure they are tired of me. I swear, other than giving her resistance on the school lunches, I am doing nothing to ask for any of this.

I read my original settlement and there is an Exhibit F on the back that says this:

_The amount of child support and/or the addition of a healthcare coverage provision in the Title IV-D cases shall be subject to review, at least once every three years, on written request by either party to the Division of Family Development, P.O. Box 716, Trenton, NJ 08625-0716 and adjusted by the court, as appropriate, or upon application to court._

I take it the term "at least" was placed in there for a reason since it is only about 2 years.

Interesting there is no "disclosure clause" that if your salary does substantially change you are obligated to disclose.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That means it's up to the other parent (you) to push the issue by bringing it to their attention.

And trust me, your lawyer has seen a LOT worse than you two.

I had a friend who bought her lawyer's yacht over about a 10-year period, just so she could give her ex hell. No other reason.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> I'm not like your wife whatsoever. When I left my first husband, a court order went in place for child support from him - a hundred something dollars for three kids. Yes, seriously. He worked under the table and his taxes showed he had no income. When we divorced it went up to just over $500 a month. I have never taken him to court for anything since.
> 
> I didn't really care. I knew I'd never get anything and I just wanted to be DONE with him. That was 18 years ago, and today he owes me over $65,000 because he has never paid unless something was garnisheed.
> 
> ...


I did the same thing when I divorced my first husband 28 years ago.

Court wanted him to pay $250 a month child support--I know he couldn't afford it, I could afford to raise our son, so I negotiated with him for $100 a month, knew he could afford that. He paid that and on-time for more than 16 years.

I never have understood women who use their children as a weapon against their ex-spouse - it's absolutely disgusting.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

You have to love the spin. His wife came here and said a totally different story, one of Scanner wanting to divorce so he could be a single guy ****ing 20 year old women. He didn't even like his kids, nor fought for them. MEM even called him out on his **** but no, he still comes here looking for sympathy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Who's his wife?


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Pay for your kids properly. No matter how Rich or poor you are you should put your kids first and pay for them. Children do cost a lot of money to raise, and they are your children. Stop worrying about your girlfriend and look after your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So...if you marry a woman, and you have 2 kids with her, and you have a great life together, and then you divorce...it's ok for you to go on and have a greatly improved life with your newly improved income, while your kids life with your ex-wife on a third of the income you now receive?


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Do you really think she got that big of a raise? That sounds very unlikely. 
It could be she lied or the kid heard wrong or just didn't remember right.
If she did get a raise that big, depending on the state you live in, I think you should try to get it lowered. 
I'm a woman who gets cs and my h pays his ex cs. What's fair is fair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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