# Resentment = no sex



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

So, I've been going through a rollercoaster ride of relationship issues for a while now with my wife of 9 years. We have a 3 year old little boy who is amazing.

Most of it is my fault. To make a long story short. For years I was ignorant and put all of my hobbies before everything else. I used to play in rock bands, wrestled professionally, and now I make indie horror films, and I spent every other free minute online either working on promoting one of those things or playing some sort of online game. Left very little time for her. After the baby was born, it didn't get any better. I still "attempted" to spend time with her.. but it wasn't sufficient for what I should be been doing. Long story short, she started to resent me without saying it and eventually came out and said "I resent you", and it went all downhill from there. She decided that she wanted to start making herself happy instead of trying to be the perfect little wife to me. I understood, and it was mostly my fault. I honestly didn't realize what I was doing was hurting her, because it didn't usually become a problem until the latter stages where I was literally engrossed into these hobbies. Eventually everything I did, or didn't do began to slowly all irritate her. She began to stop showing affection towards me and she started to become more outgoing to other people, especially others males. She didn't used to have many friends, but now she has quite a few who are all mostly male. I don't have a problem with it, its just hard to get used to.

Anyway, It took her nearly leaving me for me to own up to my neglect of her and since then I've been busting my butt to work on my faults and show her that I love her as much as I should have always showed her. Things seem to be getting "slowly" better, but she still has this huge wall up where she won't allow herself to show affection or get too close to me. We talk and stuff, but thats it. We haven't had sex in almost 6 months, and the last time we did.. it sucked. The stuff around the house that she had issues with has noticeably improved and she's told me that, but she says she doesn't know if she can get past the resentment and the sex issue. She doesn't even want it from me right now. Like I said, things have been slowly getting better.. and our sex hasn't always been terrible.. so I know once I get the chance, I can "rock her world" so to speak.. but she's gotta want to as well.

I love her so very much, and I kick myself every day for not realizing what I was doing to her much sooner. I asked her yesterday how she'd react if I tried to hug her or give her a kiss on the cheek, and she said "I don't know, I don't know if I am ready for all that yet". I tried to think positive.. at least she didn't say something totally negative.

Our anniversary is next week, and I'm going to surprise her with a nice dinner and I bought her a 14k gold past present and future diamond ring. She's always wanted one, but she spent alot of her own money on me and my hobbies and never got anything in return. Its my turn to pamper her. 

I don't know if that will do any good, but any advice that could be given is a plus.


----------



## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

I will commend you on acknowledging the fact you had made some mistakes in the past, and are trying to fix things now. There are alot of people who don't even try to do that. 

As far as your wife goes, resentment is deffo a sex killer. The only thing I know to tell you is, hopefully she will come around. It may take some time, because hurt may run deep. If you both are not in any kind of MC that might be a suggestion as well.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

You dug yourself into a deep hole and it isn't easy getting out. I commend you on trying.

But at some point she needs to put the past behind and either reinvest in the marriage the way you have or walk away.

it may also be that she feels you haven't reinvested. Maybe marriage counseling would be a good forum to address faults on both sides.


----------



## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

My husband and I used to see a therapist who said, "With women, an open heart leads to open legs"

(she was really funny )

Her word choice might be crude but she really had a point. I think you're doing the right thing by trying to fix mistakes you've made in the past. But you've got to keep fighting the good fight and be patient with your wife. She started out with an open heart and the sex was good. Years of being pushed aside made her build walls which in turn makes her less than excited for sex with the person who pushed her to the side. 

I really believe that if you keep doing what you're doing she'll come around. But be careful not to make her think you're only doing it to get laid. She has to know it's because you are truly regretful of your past actions.


----------



## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

> She decided that she wanted to start making herself happy instead of trying to be the perfect little wife to me.


I am this wife. Yet, I still default to doing what is 'expected' as the 'good wife' but in lesser value due to still hanging on to resentment.

Resentment is MASSIVE sex killer. I could care less about it or need it. If the urge is that big, I can take cafe of myself. If I do have sex with H, it's just that. Sex. No emotional connection just a hot let's get off session. I hate that about myself with him. Not sure how it will get fixed or can be. Until I figure out self and work on self happiness, this will be an everlasting failure.

Congrats to you in your efforts. I hope your spouse turns around for you, as it is not easy.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks for your responses. I don't expect her to madly fall head over heels for me over night again, but I'd like for her to notice that I'm trying to work on myself and show her that I realize what an idiot I'd been all this time and am willing to do whatever it takes to make it right again. So that the next 8 years of our marriage are amazing.

My son is super attached to me, and I fight for the love I have for my wife and for the fact that I don't want him to have to grow up with split up parents. We are great with him, and he loves us both to death. He looks at me like I'm a super hero.. and I love every minute of it.

with her, alot of it is how much she supported all of those things causing her to "lose herself" and so now she doesn't know what she likes to do because she was always so busy following me around. I've always encouraged her to do whatever she puts her mind to, but she's the kind of person that needs to be sort of pushed to get them to do anything. I'm the kind of person, that if i want something I research it and figure out how to do it/get it. 

I realize my ignorance, and I'm really fighting for her. I keep telling myself that anything worth having is worth fighting for and she's a beautiful girl whom I wished I had noticed when it mattered. I can' go back and change that, but I can work on myself for the present and future and I wake up every day now with that goal.

She called me a bit ago, just to talk about a possible job promotion she might be getting. Usually she hasn't been talking to me at all unless I talk to her, and def. not a phone call and usually its one word responses.. was nice to hear her voice.


----------



## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

It's good that she called...shows that you are still on her mind when she receives good news that she wants to share. Means you're still important to her


----------



## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Sorry to say, but this should be a good example to other men of what not to do.

Women will try and try and who can blame them for giving up on the relationship and deciding it's best to do what they need for them, because you aren't giving it to them.

Love your wives, put time and effort into them, do nice things for them, put the effort in. If she thinks it's too much effort for you, when she loves you and is happy to put the effort in, then she will be hurt and start closing off from you.

I really hope you can turn things around, and never forget again what your wife means to you. Good luck.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

believe me, I wake up every day and kick myself. Because I can literally see all the times she "tried" to get me to notice her flash through my head, when during that time I didn't even notice. I know I won't ever not notice her again.


----------



## DennisNLA (Jan 26, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> believe me, I wake up every day and kick myself. Because I can literally see all the times she "tried" to get me to notice her flash through my head, when during that time I didn't even notice. I know I won't ever not notice her again.


Hey Random guy. You just need to have some patience here. Develop some hobbies together. Spend time with her, as much as 20 hours per week of undivided attention time with her after your 3 year goes to bed. Make the emotional connection, have fun falling in love with your wife again, let her fall in love with you and the sex part should work itself out. Don't have expectations now, and since you have made mistakes in the past, do the heavy lifting now. If it does not get better by this time next year then you may need to re-evaluate the situation. I think you owe it to your son and your wife to make the maximum effort for a while.

Good luck.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

DennisNLA said:


> Hey Random guy. You just need to have some patience here. Develop some hobbies together. Spend time with her, as much as 20 hours per week of undivided attention time with her after your 3 year goes to bed. Make the emotional connection, have fun falling in love with your wife again, let her fall in love with you and the sex part should work itself out. Don't have expectations now, and since you have made mistakes in the past, do the heavy lifting now. If it does not get better by this time next year then you may need to re-evaluate the situation. I think you owe it to your son and your wife to make the maximum effort for a while.
> 
> Good luck.


Thats pretty much how I feel about it. I'm not pushing the whole "sex" thing as thats only one part of the whole picture and it usually doesn't come until the other parts are in place. I'm treating this as if I don't know my wife, and we've just met.. because as of right now I don't 'know" her, not like I used to. The biggest hurdle is getting past the resentment, and I don't know what I can do, other than what I've already been doing to combat that.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I know firsthand that resentment can lead to not wanting to have sex.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

well, "I" see a difference. I'm not sure she does yet or not. I mean, I see a difference in her... I know she sees a difference in me.. she's just not quite ready yet to move forward.

She'd been wanting to repaint our bedroom, and do some remodeling. So I texted her at lunch and told her I was gonna try to get the paint and stuff this weekend. I had already bought her the bed set she wanted. She called me after work, and asked if I had started cooking dinner yet. I told her no, and she said ok good.. we should go to town and look at paint colors .

However, her mom called her on the way home and basically started ranting about how "crappy" things are for her right now, and my wife told her.. "I know the feeling" and her mom basically pulled the.. "no your problems can't be as bad as mine" card.. and it really agitated my wife. So the rest of the ride home, she talked to me about how pissed off that made her for her mom to act like her problems were any more important than hers. I just listened and tried to understand and support her. The only thing she said I wasn't pleased with was when she started listing off all her problems.. one being "marriage sucks". I guess its to be expected though and I shouldn't let it get to me too much. She's opening up to me, and thats a good step in the right direction. We talked alot tonight, and I let her mostly vent and told her that if she needed to talk about anything I'd just listen.

She's suffering from depression on top of the resentment, and is on meds for that. I'm not sure they are helping or making them worse. She seems to be treating me with less hostility, but other people can push her buttons without doing much of anything. I wish I could see inside her head, so I'd know what to do to help her.. if anything.

note: She's had alot of death in her family while all of this has been going on, that hasn't helped much either.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

So this morning I get to work.. 

we do the usual, not much communication (she's not a morning person) I give my son a kiss and hug (he's still sleeping) and she's getting ready for work. 

I used to give her a hug, but we don't do that anymore.. due to our issues.. 

I just say "see ya later' and she replies with "ok"..

i get to work and i get a text from her..

"I read your not very nice lyrics about me you left on the dresser"

I said, "what lyrics? and why would you think they were about you?"

she said "because it was talking about blue eyes, and lying"

my wife has blue eyes.

the song wasn't about her, I was just usin common words or things to write a generic sappy song. Thats what I told her. She didn't respond back after that.

Seemed like she was trying to find something to be upset with me about.. maybe thats not the case. I wrote her a song a few weeks back that WAS about her.. but it was about me, and how i'd neglected her.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Yeah, I was telling a friend today that I notice a difference.. but she's just got so much crap on her plate that she doesn't know how to deal with it all right now. 

She called me again today at lunch to talk about some stuff going on at work so that was good. We are repainting our bedroom this weekend, to a nice light blue color. I hear blue is a "happy" color. 

I will add in, that my wife had been acting really odd during all this time and throwing up alot of "red flags". I feel like my lack of attention made her seek attention from other males. I don't feel like she's cheated on me, but she caught on to me noticing her texting guys she was meeting at the bar with her sister and went out and got a new phone/plan and told me it was for her privacy and independence. I didn't buy it at first. Way too many red flags were popping up, such as texts at odd times of the night, and pictures with guys that weren't bad.. but just looked like she was having more fun with them than she ever has with me. And at the time she probably was. But, my wife has pretty high moral standards, and I don't think she'd stoop to that level. I think thats why it got to this point. She only talks to her sister, a female friend from another state, and one or 2 guy friends both of which are married. I'm not used to her having guy friends, so its a little hard to swallow but part of our fighting ensued when I got word from an unreliable source that she was acting inappropriately at the bar with her sister and some guy. I don't go with her, because she likes to dance.. and thats her "thing" she doesn't want me to go because thats how she feels she gets away from all the stress of work, family etc. I've told her I'd like to go at least once, but she has never been ok with the idea. She hasn't gone in over a month though for various reasons. I left this out of my original post, because to me.. the reason this is happening is Because of my neglect towards her, and it should be irrelevant if I can turn things around. She used to go with some other friends a year ago, and I never once had an issue with it, because she was with people I trusted and I was with their husbands hanging out.. but these new people.. I don't know them, and I don't trust any of them. I will say this.. other than the few times over the past 4 months she's been to the bar with her sister.. she's either with me, or at work and I work around the corner from her job.


----------



## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> Most of it is my fault. To make a long story short. For years I was ignorant and put all of my hobbies before everything else..


Yeah, that was me...Showing my car, Racing my car, wheeling my Jeep, etc, etc. BTW, I'm the WIFE. My H and I have been doing an emotional tug of war throughout 22 years of marriage. We both have a huge storehouse of resentment built up on both sides. IMO we are both wrong and both have a lot to atone for. But the difference between him and I is that I've been willing to put the past aside and work towards a better future and he isn't. Marriage counseling? He won't hear of it. As far as he's concerned it's all my problem and if I don't like it I can go elsewhere. So guess who won't have sex with who? His past bout with alcoholism was the final nail in the coffin. 

I've given up. I've tried everything and I'm not getting younger. We are physically separated and he keeps saying we are "married" but he doesn't act it so eventually neither will I. Sometimes you just have to recognize a lost cause and move on. I still like hanging out with him but I don't expect much anymore. 

Thank goodness for vibrators. :smthumbup:


----------



## Anigroeg (May 15, 2011)

It will mean a lot to her that you are trying to amend the situation - it will take a lot of time and effort so be patient and persist and I suspect that eventually she will start to realise that you genuinely do love her and care about her. 

I only think this because my husband realises that he has not been supportive enough and I became resentful. I only wish he had taken the same attitude as you but unfortunately not - he's sulking in a big way!

Good luck and keep going!


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

So, an update..

yesterday was our 10th anniversary. I had asked her to wear a new dress she had bought that night, since I was taking her out. She snapped at me and complained that it was too cold, and that she had to dress up all week long for work, and that there was nowhere nice enough in town we could go where she couldn't wear jeans. I told her to wear whatever she wanted, and she got mad at that as well..

Then I told her I wasn't sure why I was even bothering at all, she seems to find fault in it somehow. Then, I told her maybe we shouldn't go out at all because if she thought going out to eat was overboard, there was no point in doing the rest of what I had planned. I bought her a diamond past present future ring, that she's always wanted.

I told her she could decide if she still wanted to go out or not, and that I was just trying to do something nice for her. She said, that our marriage was not her priority right now. She's got a grandma who may pass any day now to cancer, an uncle who is also extremely sick, and she also just lost her uncle. Also, she's vying for her bosses job who got a promotion, but is being treated dirty at work by the head honcho's, who are making her "Work" in the interim as that position, on top of her normal job for no more pay.. and she can "apply" for the position if she wants it.. but others will be able to as well.. even though she'll already be doing the job.

I've been trying to encourage her, but thats all she's focused on right now.

Anyway, she did wind up deciding she wanted to go out.. but she was exhausted from work stress. The restaurant blew.. it was one we'd never been to.. and will never go back to. But it gave us some laughs and something to talk about. After we left, I told her I wanted her to have something and I did not expect anything at all in return. I just wanted to show her I cared, and I wanted to do something special because she deserved it. I also told her that I wanted to show her that I was trying to be selfless and think about her.

She told me "thank you" and put the ring on. She took some pictures of her wearing it and send it to some friends and posted it on facebook. Her wording on facebook imo wasn't the best choice.. but I'll take it..

"after oh so many years of asking, I finally got my past present future ring"

from which all her lady friends, gushed over it. So I know that she liked it. I told her if I am able to get the chance, there's more where that came from.

Since then, we've talked more.. but still no touchy feely. She was complaining with her stomach hurting tonight, that she said might still be from how bad the food was last night. So, what do I do now? Is this good or bad?


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Tough call. I've learned not to do 'set pieces' like that unless she's had an entire day off beforehand. And remember, a gentleman is never surprised by the place or restaurant or the service or the menu or any of it. Never do anything you're not sure will work out perfectly. 

Silly stuff, yes? But it's what we do, happily to make sure she has a great time.


----------



## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Tough call. I've learned not to do 'set pieces' like that unless she's had an entire day off beforehand. And remember, a gentleman is never surprised by the place or restaurant or the service or the menu or any of it. Never do anything you're not sure will work out perfectly.
> 
> Silly stuff, yes? But it's what we do, happily to make sure she has a great time.



but WHY does it have to be that way??? WHY do men have to walk on eggshells to please us like that?? Why can't a woman just appreciate that her husband put together a lovely evening??who cares if the restaurant was shockingly bad??at least you're together and enduring it together.
it's nice to do sweet things for your spouse but I can't understand this constant requirement for perfection in order to have a good time with the person you love.the best times i've ever had with my husband were the least perfect...like the time he took me to see my favorite singer,ended up purchasing the wrong tickets n we ended up sitting way back in a field with a thousand people during a total downpour of heavy,soaking rain...for 3 hours.
lol we STILL talk about that night and laugh. My jeans were soaked through to my thong so I took them off and threw them in the trunk,rode home partially nude laughing the whole way about what would happen if we got pulled over.

I'm sorry for the rant. my feelings are a bit sore right now bc of my own personal crap. bottom line, i wish your wife could have stepped outside of herself for a minute to recognize that you tried to make the evening good for her.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I don't know why that is. I know that cranky is as cranky does. You have something splendid planed and he or she, all they want to do is bundle up in a big fluffy robe and gorge on Edy's Ice Cream.


----------



## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I don't know why that is. I know that cranky is as cranky does. You have something splendid planed and he or she, all they want to do is bundle up in a big fluffy robe and gorge on Edy's Ice Cream.


i've had plenty of those days where I just want to chill with a book,my big puppy,and my two good friends Ben&Jerry.
BUT i've had those days at the same time hubby had something planned for us and I dragged my butt a little but I still smiled and stepped up so he KNEW without a doubt I appreciated his efforts no matter how crappy my day was. 

It doesn't give much incentive for ANYONE to continue doing sweet things for someone if they've got a constant chip on their shoulder about things that have nothing to do with their spouse. Yeah you're stressed about work and the fact that you're getting d**ked around by the higher ups. 

GET OVER IT for a LEAST a few hours then you can feel free to go back into your miserable little head and brood about things you can't control. 

*sigh* lol this ranting of mine I swear it's a sickness today! I can't stop myself! i'm sorry!!


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

I dunno, I guess I was expecting too much.

I've been trying to do alot of nice things for her, and compliment her more.. but she just seems to get annoyed by it.


----------



## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> I dunno, I guess I was expecting too much.
> 
> I've been trying to do alot of nice things for her, and compliment her more.. but she just seems to get annoyed by it.


Because maybe she is having an EA or contemplating (I guess this because of the phone plan etc). 

I think you need to man up, however you have to walk a fine line because of your past bad behaviour, show her that you are the best choice for her, but you won't condone her bad behaviour.

be a good husband and a strong one, who is very good to her, but also has clear boundaries.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

She thinks all these guys she talks to are "friends". I guess they "could" be, but the way she gets defensive when I ask about any of them doesn't sit well. She will talk about them, but its always in a positive manner.. like "So and so said this.. ha ha ha..." 

I mean, I know she texts them constantly all day at work. Is that cool? I mean, I'm not expecting her to talk to the person she says everyday, all day at work too.. but she has like 3 friends who are female.. all the rest are guys. One is one who I went to school with, that works with her.. they have already been accused of having something going on by people other than me and there was a big blow up about it. She insists there is no way she'd ever do that but she attempts to stay friends with him, knowing that what people are going to say. I don't believe she was lying, but I do have issue with all these guys she talks to. I mean, I can give her that kind of attention and more if she'd just open up and let me do it. 

I want to just sit her down and tell her, but she's got so much other crap on her plate right now that if I did I'd feel like a ********* and she'd just get mad that I'm bringing it up. We've already had the conversation before and she assured me they were all just friends, and that she just happened to get along better with guys.. all of them except the most important one.. it seems.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You have gone from being totally alpha to totally beta. 

Good luck with that. Soon you will find that:
- She demands you gracefully accept celibacy
- While she gets more and more male attention and possibly enters into an EA or PA 

Regardless of what she demands from YOU, SHE is not going to stay celibate. So the question becomes when/who she is going to replace you with in terms of sexual attention. 

The way you acted before was selfish and that caused its own problems. The way you act now, is weak. And with a woman - a weak man is the absolute worst thing in the world.




randomguy1 said:


> She thinks all these guys she talks to are "friends". I guess they "could" be, but the way she gets defensive when I ask about any of them doesn't sit well. She will talk about them, but its always in a positive manner.. like "So and so said this.. ha ha ha..."
> 
> I mean, I know she texts them constantly all day at work. Is that cool? I mean, I'm not expecting her to talk to the person she says everyday, all day at work too.. but she has like 3 friends who are female.. all the rest are guys. One is one who I went to school with, that works with her.. they have already been accused of having something going on by people other than me and there was a big blow up about it. She insists there is no way she'd ever do that but she attempts to stay friends with him, knowing that what people are going to say. I don't believe she was lying, but I do have issue with all these guys she talks to. I mean, I can give her that kind of attention and more if she'd just open up and let me do it.
> 
> I want to just sit her down and tell her, but she's got so much other crap on her plate right now that if I did I'd feel like a ********* and she'd just get mad that I'm bringing it up. We've already had the conversation before and she assured me they were all just friends, and that she just happened to get along better with guys.. all of them except the most important one.. it seems.


----------



## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> You have gone from being totally alpha to totally beta.
> 
> Good luck with that. Soon you will find that:
> - She demands you gracefully accept celibacy
> ...


:iagree::iagree: You need to find balance and find it fast/

The ring was a beautiful thing to do, and I would love the dinner, the ring, all of that stuff.

However do not let her be rude to you, especially when you are making an effort. You need to set the boundaries on how you want to be treated. Yes you were very wrong before and you do need to show her you have truly changed, but that does not mean acting weak and being walked all over.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

how do you do that without pissing her off? 

I just tried to do that, with her about something and all it did was piss her off and take me 10 steps backwards. I agree that i shouldn't get treated like dirt, but if I say "look thats not cool".. I get told I sound like her mother.... which is worse to me than being "weak" me.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> how do you do that without pissing her off?
> 
> I just tried to do that, with her about something and all it did was piss her off and take me 10 steps backwards. I agree that i shouldn't get treated like dirt, but if I say "look thats not cool".. I get told I sound like her mother.... which is worse to me than being "weak" me.


Google "fitness test" because she's throwing you a ton of them. A strategy that is usually effective is to either ignore them (easiest), or agree & amplify. If she tells you you're acting like her mother, just grin and tell her to drop her pants for her spanking. You need to communicate that you aren't bothered by her tests. You want to show her you love her and are committed to her, but you're not subservient to her.

As MEM said, you're walking a tight rope because of your past actions. She's felt little comfort from you (beta), so she's checked out of the relationship. But if you lay off the attraction (alpha) too much, you're not pulling her toward you. And it sounds like she may be in an EA/PA fog so you have an even higher hurdle to get over.

Good luck.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> You have gone from being totally alpha to totally beta.
> 
> Good luck with that. Soon you will find that:
> - She demands you gracefully accept celibacy
> ...


Absolutely true. Your growth in realization is wonderful but the way you are going about changing things is unlikely to lead to an intimate emotional or sexual relationship with your wife.

You have to find a balance between what you were before and what you need to be to get her to put you on top of her list again. 

Read the manning up posts on this forum. I think your intuition is right about the male friends. They are a clear and present danger. You both need to focus on each other. At this point in your reconnection process, you should be the only male that she speaks to about her feelings and plans for the future. Any one else dissipates the energy that is needed for your relationship to flourish. 

I don't know how you go about it but, MEM and a few other men in the Men's Clubhouse can guide you.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

I'll try, but I've already brought this very subject up with her before.. and she uses the same "fine, I just won't have any friends at all, i'll just be the perfect little wife to you and worry about making everyone else happy while I'm miserable" line... 

most of these guys are married themselves, one is in a rocky relationship himself.. and part of the problem there was that he would vent to her about that, which I know brought them closer than coworkers should be. 

I'm not going to say she's having a PA or EA to that extent yet, but she's enjoying all this trashy guy attention, even when it borders on being perverted but when I try to give her honest to god, loving husband attention.. thats just boring and irritating. Its more fun to get noticed by new people than someone that you've been trying to impress for years. 

If I bring it up again in any form, she will probably leave. I don't want to be a doormat either, maybe I can be more interesting and more "bad' than these guys who she thinks is more entertaining right now.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You seem to sincerely want to improve things so I will offer some observations. If you can pull this off you may get some improvement:
1. Stop showing any anger, fear or anxiety. Completely. This is a HUGE deal in a situation like yours. To do that you will need to ensure you are getting enough sleep and exercise. Go easy on sugar and caffeine. 

ALL of this is going to be predicated on one huge foundation. And that is you "doing the right thing" consistently and accepting that no matter what the outcome you have behaved like a man should. As for what she does in response, accept that you don't control it, and it is about "her" not you. 

2. When you are with her, be friendly upbeat and playful. If she is rude, mean, etc. just give her a puzzled smile and go do something else away from her. Do not engage. Do not ask her "why the heck did you do that"? Just give her a puzzled smile and then disappear. The next time you see her - keep a flat affect. Not angry, not tense. Not cold. Just neutral. Nod when you see her - acknowledge her presence. But don't say anything. Let her set the tone. If she resumes being nasty - just hold up your hand and say "stop" in a firm voice. If she continues - shake your head in disapproval and then say "I need to run some errands/go to the gym/meet Bill at the bowling alley". And then go do that. 

3. When she is positive with you, be positive back. If you ask her to do something - "do you want to go do X Friday night" be ready with a plan b. If she responds positively good. But if she says "maybe, I'm not sure, or no" come back with "Well let me know, the guys asked me to do Z with them, and I need to get back to them". She will likely give you the aggressive "If you would rather be with the guys then go right ahead."

Just smile and calmly ask her "If I preferred their company, why would I have asked you to spend time with me"? And don't be snippy about it. Ask it like you want to know. Because you do. Maybe she will give you a sincere answer that is helpful. Maybe not. At least you will have done the right thing. 

If she continues to be aggressive/nasty just shrug and say "Well ok then - thanks for making it obvious how you feel - if you change your mind let me know and we will do it some other night" and then go make your other plans and stick with them. 

Saying we will do it some "other" night is big. It means you are about to make firm plans for that night - and then you are locked and loaded. It prevents her from playing the game of "no no no" until that night and then "changing her mind and demanding you cancel your other plans". Do NOT let that happen. 







randomguy1 said:


> I'll try, but I've already brought this very subject up with her before.. and she uses the same "fine, I just won't have any friends at all, i'll just be the perfect little wife to you and worry about making everyone else happy while I'm miserable" line...
> 
> most of these guys are married themselves, one is in a rocky relationship himself.. and part of the problem there was that he would vent to her about that, which I know brought them closer than coworkers should be.
> 
> ...


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> I'll try, but I've already brought this very subject up with her before.. and she uses the same "fine, I just won't have any friends at all, i'll just be the perfect little wife to you and worry about making everyone else happy while I'm miserable" line...


That's another fitness test. Saying, "No, I don't want you to be miserable. I was just hoping you could pay some attention to me." is failing the test. Passing the test is showing her that she can't make you jump through her hoops. You could shrug and say nothing. You could agree and amplify again by grabbing your crotch and telling her you've got a friend for her, or the perfect little wife would be naked in the kitchen making you a sammich. Remember to grin while you say this. You just want to be slightly arrogant and funny. Show her you're not taking her tests seriously.

You need to learn to identify these fitness tests and how to pass them. Sometimes, your wife will have a legitimate complaint. If she's complaining about your past actions, that's legit. If she's whining about work, that's legit. If she's communicating that she's more important than you are, and she expects you to unreasonably cater to her, that's a fitness test.



randomguy1 said:


> If I bring it up again in any form, she will probably leave. I don't want to be a doormat either, maybe I can be more interesting and more "bad' than these guys who she thinks is more entertaining right now.


I suggest you start being a bad boy that invites her along. The gourmet restaurant didn't work out well. So, next time, invite her to play beer pong at a dive bar. Text her during the day that you're going to test her endurance at doing jello shots.

It sounds more and more like she is in an EA or PA. If so, you may need to bump back much harder. It may be true that you created the environment where she chose to have an affair, but you can't accept her actions. That's the ultimate display of low value.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

well, this is alot harder than it looks..

wife gets home from work.. says she's going to see her granny for a bit. She asked if we were going. I said, yeah we'd go.. we being me and our 3 year old son. Who is at that age, where he's super cute most of the time, but has an evil tantrum at just the worst times..

This is one of those times.

He didn't have on a shirt, and pitched a super fit about wanting to wear a sweater (its 96 degrees outside right now here) and we told him no to find a short sleeve.. So he whines and stomps his feet. My wife says "I'm gonna count to five and you either put on a short sleeve shirt or I'm leaving ya here". She gets to 4 and he's still screaming. So I tell her to just go, he's not gonna stop.

So she gets up to leave, and I lose my cool and tell my son "thanks, I really didn't want to stay here". Which wasn't the right thing to say.. but I was already tired from work, and frustrated from dealing with both him and her.. I can't get him to go to bed, and my wife always passes out before 9 and lately he refuses to go to bed til well after 10.. thats another issue we need to deal with too that effects our sex life.

Now, she texts me...

"Ya know it really makes me want to f****** leave when I have to come home to 2 children".

So I've been a "mom" today, and now I'm a "child". I'm just all kinds of WINNING today. I agree I acted harsh, but I really wanted to go with my wife to show my support for her granny. I probably should have just volunteered to watch him and let her go alone.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I didn't say it was easy. You need sleep and exercise. And then you focus on learning to stay calm. And when you feel yourself losing your calm you learn how to say as little as possible. If you CANNOT do that, nothing else will matter and your marriage will not get better. 



randomguy1 said:


> well, this is alot harder than it looks..
> 
> wife gets home from work.. says she's going to see her granny for a bit. She asked if we were going. I said, yeah we'd go.. we being me and our 3 year old son. Who is at that age, where he's super cute most of the time, but has an evil tantrum at just the worst times..
> 
> ...


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Today was hard..

I didn't do anything last night but "dream" about her, the same as I have for months now.. 

Slept very little. My little one didn't want to go to bed yet again, and was grating on my last nerve.

This morning when I woke up, I woke up angry because all I had done all night was dream about how all I want to do is be affectionate with my wife.

I was sleepy and my 3 year old got up early, and kept calling me to do stuff.. which after the 4th time of getting up and down.. grated at my nerves again. My wife snapped at me, and I snapped back..

I'm really not mad "at" her. Just mad at the situation, that I can't fix. I told her I was just having a rough couple days, and that I was just getting frustrated. She said why? Cuz you want to get laid? I said.. no.

She said, I guess I'll just lay down and let you screw me, and then you'll be happy. I said, no..

I said, I just want to be able to show affection to you, period..

I'm not concerned with sex at this point. I'll take something as small as a hug..

She said, well its hard to just "flip a switch" when for so long I begged and pleaded with you and you didn't care. (Which is true, but not anymore). I told her, that I wasn't asking her to just immediately act like things are hunky dory.. but I also didn't want to get strung around forever either. She threatened to leave a few times.

I told her, I just didn't appreciate her snapping at me, and talking to me in a "mad" tone all the time when I'm being super nice to her ALL the time. She said, that yeah all that was nice.. but she's still got to get past the sex part.. and she doesn't know yet if she can. 

We didn't talk for a bit, and then she calmed down some and I told her, I just wanted to be close to her again. She didn't say anything back. I went to town and got some movies, and made baked spaghetti like I always used to make and we watched movies. She on one side of the couch, me on the other. She did talk to me hear and there.

She went to lay in the bedroom and watch tv til she feel asleep, and I followed her in there..

She says "why have you been up my ass so much today?"

I said "I'm not".

She says.. "Its just a question, just want to know why you've been up my ass so much today". 

I got up off the bed, and told her "Because I like being around you", and walked out of the room.

She didn't reply and is now asleep.

Right before all that I got a call from my mom, that my Dad had passed out and fell, hitting his head and they were taking him to the hospital. 

Fantastic day! (sarcasm)


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You need to stop this. It is toxic. You need to stop acting needy because it is destroying your marriage. When you prioritized all those other activities ahead of her it was "all about you". Now that she is being cold you are being clingy. Guess what: It is still all about you. 

Sure you are being nice to her. Because you NEED her to go back to showing you love. All about YOU. How about you suck it up for a while and be nice and upbeat and calm and good to be around and let HER have time to COME AROUND. Let her come to you. 




randomguy1 said:


> Today was hard..
> 
> I didn't do anything last night but "dream" about her, the same as I have for months now..
> 
> ...


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Understood, but how do I do that without seeming like I don't care at all? How do I do that without seeming like I'm back to the old guy who just wants to do everything else but stuff with her?

How do I know when its ok to do stuff with her, and when its not?


----------



## mentallydrained (Oct 7, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> You need to stop this. It is toxic. You need to stop acting needy because it is destroying your marriage. When you prioritized all those other activities ahead of her it was "all about you". Now that she is being cold you are being clingy. Guess what: It is still all about you.
> 
> Sure you are being nice to her. Because you NEED her to go back to showing you love. All about YOU. How about you suck it up for a while and be nice and upbeat and calm and good to be around and let HER have time to COME AROUND. Let her come to you.


:iagree::iagree: This is ME with my H. He use to do this non stop and is suffocated me. I am randomguy1 wife. (not literally) it's true when the saying 'you don't realize what you had til' it's gone'. And when your mentally gone, checked out...it takes major patience and LOTS of time.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

RG,
Totally fair questions. Sample conversation below.

You: Would you like to do "x" Friday night? - "x" needs to be something you know she likes to do. 
Her: Yes. 
You: Great (that is it - don't mention it again until Friday morning at which point you say something to confirm the specific timing of what you are doing)

You: Would you like to do "x" Friday night? - "x" needs to be something you know she likes to do. 
Her: I don't know 
You: Would you prefer to do something else
Her: I don't know
You: I am going to arrange for a baby sitter for Friday. If you want to go out with me, let me know tomorrow. If not, I am going to go do "x" with Bill.
Her: (fitness testing you) Thats just great (in an irritated tone of voice) or some other complaint about the idea you will go out with the guys
You: Laughing "Let me get this straight - you are either rejecting my offer of a date or playing hard to get and now I am the bad guy for having a plan B. Smiling looking back over your shoulder as you leave the room "Nice try"

And then don't bring it up again. If she doesn't revisit it the next day, make your alternate plans. And arrange for the babysitter. 

Rinse and repeat. Each time she gets right of first refusal and if/when she refuses you make sure she knows you aren't sitting home thinking about her. Maybe that means you take turns watching your child. Or get a lot of sitters. 




randomguy1 said:


> Understood, but how do I do that without seeming like I don't care at all? How do I do that without seeming like I'm back to the old guy who just wants to do everything else but stuff with her?
> 
> How do I know when its ok to do stuff with her, and when its not?


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Yeah, our scenarios won't go quite like that but I get the idea.

I've tried inviting her on dates, but she usually says 

"no" straight up.

I invited her to the movies the other night, and she said.. "nah, not really a movies person". We've been to the movies 1000 times together, and we watch them all the time at home..

She doesn't really have any interests except reading, shopping, and dancing.

Shopping we already do sometimes, and I'm forbidden to go dancing with her. I've never been big on dancing, so she feels like i'd be a "party pooper", she also claims thats her 'thing" to do without me and our son. I "get it" but it also sounds like she doesn't want me going for other reasons, and is just using the logical reason as a cover. She hasn't been in over 2 months now. 

So, the key here is.. if i am reading right.. is to spend time with her when I can, but not constantly force it to where it seems like my spending time and getting her to show me affection has now turned into one of my "projects" of which I am doing the same thing I always do and getting wrapped up in it to the point that I am obssessive.

also forgot to mention that it seems at this point, the resentment again plus the issue of not being intimate is the bulk of the problem now.

she brought up one time during my movie shoot, we had gotten access to film in my old high school.. she wanted to do it in the school bathroom. I was like running like a chicken with my head cut off trying to get the shoot going, and I actually thought she was half way joking about it.. but she apparently was serious. What I would give now to go back and do my wife in my high school bathroom... lol

sorry if that was TMI... but I know if I ever get the chance to do anything like that again I shall not turn it down regardless of what else that might be going on,.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sure - give her a choice to spend time with you - but do NOT sit around at home if she chooses not to spend time with you.

And do not let her behave in a disrespectful way towards you. Don't get "angry/loud" but add some edge to your voice and just say "Don't" in an irritated way when she behaves badly. 

And if she tries to play "dumb" just give her a quiet, cool look and do not engage. Meaning don't even try to "sell her" on why you are the injured party. When she is being rude she knows it. 




randomguy1 said:


> Yeah, our scenarios won't go quite like that but I get the idea.
> 
> I've tried inviting her on dates, but she usually says
> 
> ...


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

thanks, i'm seeing the idea now.

Also, when I ask her things... like for example today.. she's been texting me during lunch.

she has a meeting tonight so she will be home late, i told her i might go and get some stuff to make a dish she likes..

I asked her if that sounded good, and she said "i guess".. how do I just get yes or no.. I hate these " I don't want to sound like I like your idea and I don't want to sound like I don't" answers.

Also, there were a few times where she was going dancing, and then didn't because she found out I wasn't doing anything but sitting at home. I was planning to take my son to ride go karts one night she was gonna go, and I told her to go.. and she came back with "my sister is sick" I said.. you can't go without her? their your friends too aren't they? Then she said she'd go.. and then when she got home, she said she was "too tired to go". I stuck with my plan of taking my son to ride go karts. she wound up going with us.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> she has a meeting tonight so she will be home late, i told her i might go and get some stuff to make a dish she likes..
> 
> I asked her if that sounded good, and she said "i guess".. how do I just get yes or no.. I hate these " I don't want to sound like I like your idea and I don't want to sound like I don't" answers.


You failed that fitness test. Why are you asking her permission to prepare a dish you know she likes? That's childlike. You should have texted her that you are preparing X for dinner. If she fitness tests again by saying she's not in the mood for a dish you know she likes, say that you'll understand if she picks up takeout for herself on the way home. You and your son will be eating the dinner you prepared.



> I was planning to take my son to ride go karts one night she was gonna go, and I told her to go. ... I stuck with my plan of taking my son to ride go karts. she wound up going with us.


You passed that fitness test. Part of her dithering was testing to see what you would do. Would you cancel your plans to do nothing with her? You didn't, so she decided to come along with you. Use that in the future. Make plans and tell her you would like her to come with you. If she complains about you not asking her nicely enough, or that she doesn't enjoy that activity anymore, or whatever else, it's a fitness test. Just kiss her goodbye and leave.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Agree with both of these.



PHTlump said:


> You failed that fitness test. Why are you asking her permission to prepare a dish you know she likes? That's childlike. You should have texted her that you are preparing X for dinner. If she fitness tests again by saying she's not in the mood for a dish you know she likes, say that you'll understand if she picks up takeout for herself on the way home. You and your son will be eating the dinner you prepared.
> 
> 
> You passed that fitness test. Part of her dithering was testing to see what you would do. Would you cancel your plans to do nothing with her? You didn't, so she decided to come along with you. Use that in the future. Make plans and tell her you would like her to come with you. If she complains about you not asking her nicely enough, or that she doesn't enjoy that activity anymore, or whatever else, it's a fitness test. Just kiss her goodbye and leave.


----------



## roymcavoy (Apr 15, 2011)

OK...I've gotta say...I've been following this thread for awhile, and it's really helped me. I discovered my wife has been resentful about some things I had NO IDEA about -- which had genuinely shut her down to a certain extent.

I have agreed to work together with her in addressing these problems to help fix our relationship. Not expecting any miracles, but hopefully it will draw us back to "oneness" both emotionally and physically.

Thanks!


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks guys.. this is really helping I think.

I think I failed again last night though.

When she came home late from work. I noticed some "mark" on her chest that looked like either a burn or almost like a hickey (its been so long since i've seen one... or made one lol). Anyway, I just asked her what happened to her, and she said I dunno.

So I didn't say anything else, but she thought I was quiet for some reason.. and said "what's wrong?"

I said, nothing just tired.

She goes to take a shower, and comes out..

"I don't see any marks, what are you talking about"

So I tried to show her, but didn't really see it anymore.

I said, "I dunno then, it looked sort of like bite marks or a burn"...

she says..

"What now? do you think someone gave me a hickey? When in the world between working all day, and having to do two jobs would i have time?"

I said "I didn't say that" and didn't say anything else. She didn't say anything either, but knowing her.. she's probably still mad about it and just hasn't said anything. I know It seemed "paranoid" of me to ask, but how else was I gonna know why she had some strange "mark" that wasn't there before?


----------



## bonsai (May 19, 2011)

roymcavoy said:


> OK...I've gotta say...I've been following this thread for awhile, and it's really helped me. Thanks!


Second that!


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

So tonight was strange...

I got home, and she said 
"You don't think I don't think about the sex issue all the time?

I said, "I know you do, I do too.. there's no way 2 people who haven't had sex in 6 months could not think about it".

She said "I just don't know what to do about it. Its like the things your doing are nice and everything, and I start moving towards the direction of wanting to, and then you say or do something that puts me 20 steps back in the other direction".

"I just don't know what to do to get past it, or if I even can? And if I can't what then?

I told her that we obviously couldn't live in a sexless marriage, but that we used to have amazing sex before we got married, and before we got "comfortable" with each other.. and that maybe we didn't adjust well to that once we got married. I went off and did all these hobbies, not worrying about losing her. She was busy trying to be the perfect wife, and wasn't doing her own thing.

I told her that the only way she'd know if she could get past it was to try and start making steps towards it. It didn't have to be turning on a switch, but baby steps is fine with me.

So we talked a bit more, and she went on to talk about all the stuff she has going on in her life.. her grandma is on her death bed, and her uncle has cancer, and her mom is always overdosing on pain meds, and she's up for this promotion that she's being shafted on right now, and her dad will be here next week from Texas and she's worried he'll catch on to her depression. She's on meds for her depression and blood pressure, which is causing her to get UTI's. 

I told her thats why I was trying to be supportive, but it was hard finding that "balance" because before.. all she ever wanted was my undivided attention and now she wants attention but in a different way, and I didn' t know how to react, having only ever known one way.

We didn't fight or anything. It was a honest discussion and I feel really good being able to talk like that to her.

Whats you guys take on that? And is there anything I can do or suggest to start us back on the path to great sex?


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> We didn't fight or anything. It was a honest discussion and I feel really good being able to talk like that to her.
> 
> Whats you guys take on that? And is there anything I can do or suggest to start us back on the path to great sex?


Honest and open discussions are good. I like the fact that you staked out your position that you expect sex when she is ready. And you expect her to take steps in that direction. She didn't test you.

I think you should continue trying to include her in your activities, become more assertive, and work on recognizing and passing those fitness tests.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You did great. Very constructive.

Maybe suggest a back massage. Just a massage. Make it good.
Talk about something light that she is interested in.


UOTE=randomguy1;329431]So tonight was strange...

I got home, and she said 
"You don't think I don't think about the sex issue all the time?

I said, "I know you do, I do too.. there's no way 2 people who haven't had sex in 6 months could not think about it".

She said "I just don't know what to do about it. Its like the things your doing are nice and everything, and I start moving towards the direction of wanting to, and then you say or do something that puts me 20 steps back in the other direction".

"I just don't know what to do to get past it, or if I even can? And if I can't what then?

I told her that we obviously couldn't live in a sexless marriage, but that we used to have amazing sex before we got married, and before we got "comfortable" with each other.. and that maybe we didn't adjust well to that once we got married. I went off and did all these hobbies, not worrying about losing her. She was busy trying to be the perfect wife, and wasn't doing her own thing.

I told her that the only way she'd know if she could get past it was to try and start making steps towards it. It didn't have to be turning on a switch, but baby steps is fine with me.

So we talked a bit more, and she went on to talk about all the stuff she has going on in her life.. her grandma is on her death bed, and her uncle has cancer, and her mom is always overdosing on pain meds, and she's up for this promotion that she's being shafted on right now, and her dad will be here next week from Texas and she's worried he'll catch on to her depression. She's on meds for her depression and blood pressure, which is causing her to get UTI's. 

I told her thats why I was trying to be supportive, but it was hard finding that "balance" because before.. all she ever wanted was my undivided attention and now she wants attention but in a different way, and I didn' t know how to react, having only ever known one way.

We didn't fight or anything. It was a honest discussion and I feel really good being able to talk like that to her.

Whats you guys take on that? And is there anything I can do or suggest to start us back on the path to great sex?[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ladypomegranate (May 15, 2011)

I think you're making great strides in trying to get your marriage back on solid footing. But you keep saying how it feels like one step forward, two steps back. If this trend continues you really need to consider therapy. If your wife is suffering from depression and stress/anxiety on top of being unhappy in her marriage, then she probably isn't capable of being fully committed to saving your marriage, especially not to the degree that you seem to be. 

I would recommend couples therapy and individual therapy for her. This gives her a chance to vent about her frustrations to a professional that can help her see what is going on in her life in a different manner. The couple therapy can help her begin to see how much regret you have and how you are willing to do whatever it takes to make things better. Right now you are trying to fix your marriage, but because of her resentment and stress she is taking every positive thing you do and twisting it into something negative. That's why she constantly challenges you about your desire to have sex; she sees you paying attention to her as a ploy to get her into bed, not as a way to strengthen your relationship.

I know therapy isn't for everybody, but sometimes you have to have that buffer between the two of you that a therapist can offer. In addition, a non-involved person (and this is why friends and family cannot help in this instance) can give you an insight into why things are happening that isn't hampered by emotion.

I'm really impressed by how much work you are putting into this. Some men would say "why bother" and walk away. And I'm impressed that you have the strength to admit that you have made mistakes in the past; that's often a hard thing to do. The only thing hindering your progress now is your wife. She doesn't seem interested in making progress on her own. I certainly understand being under a great deal of stress and being angry all the time, but you can't take that out on your spouse in a solid relationship, let alone one that is on the verge of collapse. So, again, she needs some help to assist her with her stress, anger and resentment before she can move forward.

I wish you all the luck and hope things work out for the best!


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey thanks for the encouraging words.

I actually think the meds are making her worse in some ways. Its not something she's always had to do, she just got on them recently.

Yesterday after our talk, I got to thinking and wrote her an email.. Here's what it entailed.

Hope your morning is going good.

I have been thinking some about what we talked about yesterday and I was trying to come up with some things that might help us figure this out, and get us on the right track again.
I know I had alot of chances to be intimate with you, when I didn't. I know there's also been times when I wanted to be with you, and you weren't really up to it for whatever reason. I also know that we've had times, where it wasn't "great" and it felt like it was a "duty" over something we enjoy. However I also can recount plenty of times, when it was fun.. spontaneous and amazingly awesome. 
Our lives have changed alot since those times.. we've added work stress, marriage stress, financial stress, family stress, raising a child stress, keeping the house clean stress.. etc. All of which, on top of the things I was doing.. doesn't make anybody want to be in that kind of mood. We've fell in a rut in that dept. where we basically go through the motions. We get up, get dressed, get ***** dressed.. go to work.. come home.. clean/eat.. bathe, watch tv for a few minutes and go to bed. We need those moments of excitement to keep things fresh. Like your dad said, we need "date" nights so we can just be away from the stress and difficulties of home/work and enjoy each other's company for a couple of hours. We can talk about anything, it doesn't even have to be anything "deep", just talking to each other for the enjoyment of it. 

All of the things going on in your life outside of our issues, also attributes to it I'm sure. When you don't have anything but negativeness happening around you, its hard to feel positive and want to feel loved. Thats why I want to be there for you, and support you through these things and encourage you to do your best on your job and etc. I enjoy having sex with you, and I always have. Your a beautiful woman that maybe I don't deserve, but I love deeply. I'm willing to try anything to get us 'jumpstarted" again. I'm willing to go as slow or as fast as you want to go. I'm willing to make a fool of myself, and you should know that I am willing to put any of my hobbies or interests aside to focus on some of yours. I know its a hard thing to get past, but I don't feel like it is impossible. Just takes some work out of both of us to get to that point. I always think about what made me fall in love with you in the first place, and thats what I try to recapture. I know we are adults, and being married changed alot of things.. but at the core we are still the same people who fell in love with each other 12 years ago. I remember sitting on your mom's swing (pretty sure that was one of the nights we did it there lol) and telling each other we'd never be like that if we got married. Unfortunately, sometimes things like this catch you off guard because we have "responsibilities' to deal with that come first. But that doesn't mean we have to lose that spark.

Oh how I would kill to relive some of those times, maybe even make them better! Try to outdo ourselves. Things were alot easier to accomplish then, but maybe the fact that its harder to pull off now could make it better when we are able to. Like I said, I'm up for small steps and I think you are too, its just been so long and so many angry feelings pent up.. its hard to "shake", and its also hard to know "what to do' when you haven't done anything for a long period of time. We could start off with something as small as just sitting closer to each other when we are watching tv, or holding hands, or trying to hug each other at least once before bed, or allowing me to give you good night kisses again. I also would be up for giving massages, with no strings attached. That way, it would be a step in the right direction and it would be a much needed stress reliever for you. and we can move forward from there. All thats needed on your side, is the openess to try and do that or at least give me signals to let me know when its ok to show affection or touch you. I am still working hard on myself, and still want to work hard on our marriage. I know its hard to forgive someone but I feel like if we work together we can get that spark back!

I'm here for ya!


-----------------

She didn't reply or say anything to me about it.. of course thats what I expected. When I got home she asked if we could go to her fav restaurant to eat because she had been craving it.. I said "sure!". She talked to me some on the way there, and back.. but was mostly quiet. She's been going to bed pretty early this week, but she's still wearing both rings and seems to be talking to me a little more every day. I agree that therapy might be good, we just don't have the money right now. I'm not sure how long I should wait to see if she will give some kind of response in regards to my email, but right now as long as I am not leaving the house every morning in a bad mood.. things are on the path to recovery.


----------



## kelevra (May 19, 2011)

It may be time to cover your back no matter how hard you're trying my friend by investing in a P.I. and consulting a lawyer in private. Best of luck.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

RG,
Good letter. Too long though. Women generally respond better
To brevity unless they are happy and WANT a love letter.
Who is the main breadwinner? What are you doing to reduce
Financial stress? Who is the spender and who is the saver in
Your marriage? How many hours a week is she working?
How about you?

;330814]Hey thanks for the encouraging words.

I actually think the meds are making her worse in some ways. Its not something she's always had to do, she just got on them recently.

Yesterday after our talk, I got to thinking and wrote her an email.. Here's what it entailed.

Hope your morning is going good.

I have been thinking some about what we talked about yesterday and I was trying to come up with some things that might help us figure this out, and get us on the right track again.
I know I had alot of chances to be intimate with you, when I didn't. I know there's also been times when I wanted to be with you, and you weren't really up to it for whatever reason. I also know that we've had times, where it wasn't "great" and it felt like it was a "duty" over something we enjoy. However I also can recount plenty of times, when it was fun.. spontaneous and amazingly awesome. 
Our lives have changed alot since those times.. we've added work stress, marriage stress, financial stress, family stress, raising a child stress, keeping the house clean stress.. etc. All of which, on top of the things I was doing.. doesn't make anybody want to be in that kind of mood. We've fell in a rut in that dept. where we basically go through the motions. We get up, get dressed, get ***** dressed.. go to work.. come home.. clean/eat.. bathe, watch tv for a few minutes and go to bed. We need those moments of excitement to keep things fresh. Like your dad said, we need "date" nights so we can just be away from the stress and difficulties of home/work and enjoy each other's company for a couple of hours. We can talk about anything, it doesn't even have to be anything "deep", just talking to each other for the enjoyment of it. 

All of the things going on in your life outside of our issues, also attributes to it I'm sure. When you don't have anything but negativeness happening around you, its hard to feel positive and want to feel loved. Thats why I want to be there for you, and support you through these things and encourage you to do your best on your job and etc. I enjoy having sex with you, and I always have. Your a beautiful woman that maybe I don't deserve, but I love deeply. I'm willing to try anything to get us 'jumpstarted" again. I'm willing to go as slow or as fast as you want to go. I'm willing to make a fool of myself, and you should know that I am willing to put any of my hobbies or interests aside to focus on some of yours. I know its a hard thing to get past, but I don't feel like it is impossible. Just takes some work out of both of us to get to that point. I always think about what made me fall in love with you in the first place, and thats what I try to recapture. I know we are adults, and being married changed alot of things.. but at the core we are still the same people who fell in love with each other 12 years ago. I remember sitting on your mom's swing (pretty sure that was one of the nights we did it there lol) and telling each other we'd never be like that if we got married. Unfortunately, sometimes things like this catch you off guard because we have "responsibilities' to deal with that come first. But that doesn't mean we have to lose that spark.

Oh how I would kill to relive some of those times, maybe even make them better! Try to outdo ourselves. Things were alot easier to accomplish then, but maybe the fact that its harder to pull off now could make it better when we are able to. Like I said, I'm up for small steps and I think you are too, its just been so long and so many angry feelings pent up.. its hard to "shake", and its also hard to know "what to do' when you haven't done anything for a long period of time. We could start off with something as small as just sitting closer to each other when we are watching tv, or holding hands, or trying to hug each other at least once before bed, or allowing me to give you good night kisses again. I also would be up for giving massages, with no strings attached. That way, it would be a step in the right direction and it would be a much needed stress reliever for you. and we can move forward from there. All thats needed on your side, is the openess to try and do that or at least give me signals to let me know when its ok to show affection or touch you. I am still working hard on myself, and still want to work hard on our marriage. I know its hard to forgive someone but I feel like if we work together we can get that spark back!

I'm here for ya!


-----------------

She didn't reply or say anything to me about it.. of course thats what I expected. When I got home she asked if we could go to her fav restaurant to eat because she had been craving it.. I said "sure!". She talked to me some on the way there, and back.. but was mostly quiet. She's been going to bed pretty early this week, but she's still wearing both rings and seems to be talking to me a little more every day. I agree that therapy might be good, we just don't have the money right now. I'm not sure how long I should wait to see if she will give some kind of response in regards to my email, but right now as long as I am not leaving the house every morning in a bad mood.. things are on the path to recovery.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Right now we are about tied.. she makes a tiny bit more than me.
She has saved the most throughout marriage, but I've contributed some during tax time and now trying to do so regularly.

The past few days have been ALOT better than recent weeks..
She had to work really late tonight, and when she got home she was upset that she'd not gotten to see our son all day, and by the time she got home it was nearly time for bed for him.

Then, she was going through reasons why this new position might be more than she bargained for...

"What if we don't work out and I'm working late every night and its my week to have him?"

I told her that maybe she won't have to worry about that.

she got quiet, and I asked her why she brought it up..

I hate when she mentions stuff like that. It means to me she's still seriously doubting.

She said "Because, You know I think about the sex issue all the time right? its not like I don't think about it... I do".

I told her I did too, and that I would love to have the answers to what she can do to get past it.. but I don't have those answers.

She said "well, what are we gonna do stay married and never have sex?"

I said, "no, because neither of us can live like that. We'd be unhappy, and while I'm not "unhappy" right now.. because I still have hope.. being married with no sex life is not an option for me".

I asked her to tell me more details about why she doesn't feel attraction towards me. She said, that thinking about having sex with me just feels "gross" now.. and she doesn't know how to not feel that way. I asked her if it was a physical "gross" and she said no, it wasn't at all physical it was all emotional.

She says she doesn't even want to be kissed or touched or anything. And she's constantly thinking about how to handle it, and whether its something she can get past or not.

I told her I didn't know, I wished there was something I could do to put her on the right track.. but it wasn't really up to me. I told her I could romance her and do everything imagineable but thats something she has to do for herself.

I told her maybe it might be good for her to talk to someone who is not a close friend or family member about it and see if they had any advice. I told her I'd been researching nearly every day on marriage columns, sex and marriage forums, and there was no easy answer..

I told her one place said that resentment was the #1 marriage killer, and in that same article that it was both the hardest and easiest thing to get over.. because people who have it don't want to let it go, and "getting past it" is as simple as letting go of whatever it is you are resentful towards that person about.

She started crying a tiny bit, and she finally asked if we could stop talking about it for the night, because she was already tired and stressed.. I obliged.

I did tell her that we had made several big steps, because just 2 weeks ago. we weren't even talking.. and now we are having conversations about our problems without fighting.

She told me, that as parents and the other parts of marriage.. she could see things getting better.. the sex issue is the ONE thing left holding her back from opening up to me again.. grrr this is a hard one to crack.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

RG,
Well done. Try this. 

Tell her: I need you to take 10 minutes to try something. I need
You to lie down on the bed and try to relax. I am going to give 
You a massage. If after 10 u ask me to stop I will. 

If she rejects this just shrug and drop it. Don't complain, or argue.
Just say ok. And then do NOT bring it up again. She may cue
U within a few days and when she does just do it. Don't talk just
DO.

Right now we are about tied.. she makes a tiny bit more than me.
She has saved the most throughout marriage, but I've contributed some during tax time and now trying to do so regularly.

The past few days have been ALOT better than recent weeks..
She had to work really late tonight, and when she got home she was upset that she'd not gotten to see our son all day, and by the time she got home it was nearly time for bed for him.

Then, she was going through reasons why this new position might be more than she bargained for...

"What if we don't work out and I'm working late every night and its my week to have him?"

I told her that maybe she won't have to worry about that.

she got quiet, and I asked her why she brought it up..

I hate when she mentions stuff like that. It means to me she's still seriously doubting.

She said "Because, You know I think about the sex issue all the time right? its not like I don't think about it... I do".

I told her I did too, and that I would love to have the answers to what she can do to get past it.. but I don't have those answers.

She said "well, what are we gonna do stay married and never have sex?"

I said, "no, because neither of us can live like that. We'd be unhappy, and while I'm not "unhappy" right now.. because I still have hope.. being married with no sex life is not an option for me".

I asked her to tell me more details about why she doesn't feel attraction towards me. She said, that thinking about having sex with me just feels "gross" now.. and she doesn't know how to not feel that way. I asked her if it was a physical "gross" and she said no, it wasn't at all physical it was all emotional.

She says she doesn't even want to be kissed or touched or anything. And she's constantly thinking about how to handle it, and whether its something she can get past or not.

I told her I didn't know, I wished there was something I could do to put her on the right track.. but it wasn't really up to me. I told her I could romance her and do everything imagineable but thats something she has to do for herself.

I told her maybe it might be good for her to talk to someone who is not a close friend or family member about it and see if they had any advice. I told her I'd been researching nearly every day on marriage columns, sex and marriage forums, and there was no easy answer..

I told her one place said that resentment was the #1 marriage killer, and in that same article that it was both the hardest and easiest thing to get over.. because people who have it don't want to let it go, and "getting past it" is as simple as letting go of whatever it is you are resentful towards that person about.

She started crying a tiny bit, and she finally asked if we could stop talking about it for the night, because she was already tired and stressed.. I obliged.

I did tell her that we had made several big steps, because just 2 weeks ago. we weren't even talking.. and now we are having conversations about our problems without fighting.

She told me, that as parents and the other parts of marriage.. she could see things getting better.. the sex issue is the ONE thing left holding her back from opening up to me again.. grrr this is a hard one to crack.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Thanks, I'll try that. 

/crosses fingers


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

So I asked her if at some point this weekend could I have 10 minutes of her time to give her a massage, and if after those 10 minutes she felt uncomfortable, I'd stop..

she replied with "i don't know".

I didn't say anything else regarding it.


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> So I asked her if at some point this weekend could I have 10 minutes of her time to give her a massage, and if after those 10 minutes she felt uncomfortable, I'd stop..
> 
> she replied with "i don't know".
> 
> I didn't say anything else regarding it.


She sounds so noncommittal. Can't you come back and respectfully demand a yes or no answer? I don't know is not an answer and if she can't then just say no. These are not hard questions.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Yeah, I agree with you.

I did give her the option to think on it some, and give me an answer later.


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

See my husband is notorious for giving me "I don't know" as an answer. I think he knows full well the answer but doesn't have the guts to say it. So I assume it's "no" and work to make him say it. I don't know is no longer an acceptable answer to my simple questions.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

as you said for me.. its saying "I don't want to say Yes, because that will make you think that everything is going to be gravy... but I don't want to say no either, because I don't want you to think I just don't care at all either"...

"I'm really stuck in this rut where I don't like either option at this point."

Too bad I can't buy a brain scanner and see whats she's thinking up there.

the "no sex" is not really hurting me right now.. its the no affection at all.

the don't touch me, don't hug me, don't kiss me, don't tell me you love me, don't hold my hand.. 

is what hurts because then I wind up trying to show affection in non physical ways, so it then just feels like I'm just being taken advantage of. I'm not saying "I should get something for being nice".. but I'm making a conscious effort to be the guy you married in the first place.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> as you said for me.. its saying "I don't want to say Yes, because that will make you think that everything is going to be gravy... but I don't want to say no either, because I don't want you to think I just don't care at all either"...
> 
> "I'm really stuck in this rut where I don't like either option at this point."
> 
> ...


She's punishing you - it's typical passive-aggressive behavior.

Because you've done this - I will punish you by withholding this to hurt you as much as I believe you hurt me.

Childish and immature.

She needs to grow up.

Sorry - just telling it like I see it.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

the question is, how long is "enough"?

I mean, I understand that she put up with me for a long time.. but I wasn't doing anything I did "knowingly". I still hugged, kissed, and had sex with her even during all those times that she didn't feel she got attention from me.

I on the other hand, am completely cut off from her, and she's 100% aware of it.


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

That passive aggressive thing sucks! Punishing just because the can. Do you think that is what she is doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bonsai (May 19, 2011)

I feel you RG! We are in the same boat.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

I don't know if thats what it is or not.

She's been alot more talkative, she texts me sporadically throughout the day, and still values my opinion on stuff and still seems to enjoy being around me in every way but affectionate.. right now. 

More of the same tonight, we talked alot.. but she sort of wrote off my massage request.. of course we still have 2 more weekend days to go.. maybe some magic will happen. I know she's thinking about me at least.. if she hears me "sigh" in the least.. she perks up and wants to know whats wrong.. I always just say "nothing".


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I would stop with all the sighing and other stuff. Be upbeat and aware. But stop overly focusing on her - she is being a bit of a bully because she "can". 

Give her a week. And then tell her to lie down on the bed and if she says she needs to think about it, tell her you are going to make it "easy" for her to fully evaluate the marriage, AND YOU are going to evaluate whether or not it is healthy for you to be in an open ended situation with a partner who is showing little commitment to getting "over" stuff. And you will do that by moving out. And you aren't going to move back in, until she wants you to move back in as her husband, as opposed to a room mate she treats poorly. 

That WILL get a reaction. She does NOT want a doormat for a husband any more than she wanted a guy who couldn't be bothered with her needs. 

BTW: Her post about the expensive jewlery was very telling. It was "finally I was able to control the situation and get what I want" not, my husband did a very loving and generous thing for me. Sometimes the ONLY thing to do with an aggressive woman is be dominant when she is being a - bi - very difficult woman





randomguy1 said:


> I don't know if thats what it is or not.
> 
> She's been alot more talkative, she texts me sporadically throughout the day, and still values my opinion on stuff and still seems to enjoy being around me in every way but affectionate.. right now.
> 
> More of the same tonight, we talked alot.. but she sort of wrote off my massage request.. of course we still have 2 more weekend days to go.. maybe some magic will happen. I know she's thinking about me at least.. if she hears me "sigh" in the least.. she perks up and wants to know whats wrong.. I always just say "nothing".


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

You need man up, and for Gods sake stop 1- Apologizing 2- Being whiney 3- Writing her letters. She sees you as weak. All the things she say says were wrong about the old you, let me ask you this, did she have sex with you then? 

I would be warry of a EA/PA, not sure but would be on the look out. 

She is in total control of you and the relationship. She does not respect you and can not be attracted to you until this changes. You need to check out Athols married man sex life blog. 

You need to work on you. I am not telling you to be an ass to your wife but stop walking on eggshells and trying to apease her. If I was in your shoes I would work on my diet and start to work out. Be upbeat and have a possitive attitude.


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I would also like to add....the next time she offeres sex even if she just lays there, do it!! Many little chemical actions take place after sex and change perspective a lot. I know no one wants "pitty" sex and I've been frustrated with my wife in the past, but just do it. It does not mean a total change in stategy.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Well, this weekend I got back to working on our bedroom. We repainted the walls, and I've been on the arduous task of stripping paint and carpet glue off the floor where we pulled up the carpet to reveal hardwood flooring. I've been sanding all day. I sanded that entire floor with a power sander by myself.

She feel asleep on the floor in the living room, and came by and gave her a little peck on the back of her neck..

"Stop it" sort of like one does when your bothering then when they are trying to sleep. 

She came in there ever so often to see the progress. 

I don't think she's having an EA/PA currently. I do think that she might have been on the verge of one, but I have reason to believe she's never went through with it.

The way she's described it, she doesn't really want sex period. Not with me, and not with anyone else. 

I can look at her and tell she's "thinking" about it.. and trying to work it all out in her head.

Her dad is flying in tonight, she only gets to see him once a year for a week. So, I know I won't get much time with her this week. I'm viewing it as a good thing, and her dad likes me alot.. She's afraid he will pick up on her depression. 

She had sex with me during the time all that was going on. Some times it was REALLY good sex too. It didn't start to dwindle alot until we had a child (makes sense) and even I started to get bored with it.. since it always had to be either planned sex, or quickies.. because you never knew when the kid was gonna wake up. And it was always the same.. we get naked, we have sex.. not much foreplay.. I always wanted to do more fun stuff.. but she was either tired, or just didn't want to do it in first place.. and was just laying there basically.

If she gave me the chance to be intimate with her, even if she just laid there.. I can almost guarantee she wouldn't be just laying there for long, unless she REALLY is completely sick and done with me.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

wow.. tonight just went horribly wrong.

Last night at about 3 am, my wife heard someone or something run across our front porch, so she woke me up and we checked it out.. didnt see anything but it scared us.. I never actually heard anything.

so we couldn't go back to sleep, so we stayed up til we finally fell asleep.

Tonight, we are still a little freaked so I leave the front porch light on, and put a baseball bat near the bed.

I am paranoid and keep looking out the front door window. I see my neighbors are outside across the street. So I walk over, to ask them if they'd had seen or heard anything weird last night. They said no, and i talked to them a bit about what it might of been and too keep an eye out on my house if they were gonna be up late. My wife had already gone to bed, but i guess woke up and realized i had walked across the street.

I heard the door shut from across the street, so i tell them i better go and tell her whats going on..

i get back across, and the door is locked..

I had to bang on it to get her to unlock it.

I say "why did u lock the door?"

she says "because of that smart ass comment you made."

what?

"I heard you"

"You said, I've gotta go.. I remember I'm not allowed to leave the yard past midnight".

I said.. "I didn't say that, why would I say that?"

she says "I Heard you say it".

I explained to her why i was over there.. it didn't even seem like she was listening, she looked like she was in a daze.

she was just focused on what she "thought" i said. I told her that there is no earthly reason why i'd say that.. she was like..

"to be an ass"

I was like, what? Why? I've been nothing but nice to you.. I did NOT say that.

she stormed off to bed..

is she going crazy? I'm starting to wonder if she even heard anything last night. I heard NOTHING and I would not have slept through such loud noises. I freak out over every creak our house makes.. grrr...


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> So, an update..
> 
> yesterday was our 10th anniversary. I had asked her to wear a new dress she had bought that night, since I was taking her out. She snapped at me and complained that it was too cold, and that she had to dress up all week long for work, and that there was nowhere nice enough in town we could go where she couldn't wear jeans. I told her to wear whatever she wanted, and she got mad at that as well..
> 
> ...


Sometimes when these situations happen my wife and I do something simple that day and then setup extended time to actuallt celibrate. We don't let it pass us by.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> well, this is alot harder than it looks..
> 
> wife gets home from work.. says she's going to see her granny for a bit. She asked if we were going. I said, yeah we'd go.. we being me and our 3 year old son. Who is at that age, where he's super cute most of the time, but has an evil tantrum at just the worst times..
> 
> ...


She set that up. It was her plan to leave you there. What a B****. Sorry.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> Yeah, our scenarios won't go quite like that but I get the idea.
> 
> I've tried inviting her on dates, but she usually says
> 
> ...


No f'ing way my wife would forbid me to go with her any where. She does not want you to go because this is where she does her thing with the other men. You might cramp her style. Or maybe she would just rub it in your face. Anyway, this sounds mean, but just because you are getting no sex does not mean she is getting no sex.

This is absurd man.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> So tonight was strange...
> 
> I got home, and she said
> "You don't think I don't think about the sex issue all the time?
> ...


Generally positive. BTW anto-dipressants can kill sex drive. Or they can mess with the selection of who one has sex with.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> So tonight was strange...
> 
> I got home, and she said
> "You don't think I don't think about the sex issue all the time?
> ...


Generally positive. BTW anto-dipressants can kill sex drive. Or they can mess with the selection of who one has sex with.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> You did great. Very constructive.
> 
> Maybe suggest a back massage. Just a massage. Make it good.
> Talk about something light that she is interested in.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

I try to give my wife a full body massage once a week. No strings attached. I don't say that. It is in my actions. Ideally I do it late afternoon on a Saturday or Sunday. Most times that does translate to just foreplay for a few hours later, but there is seriously no direct link. It is good on its own for both of us.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> as you said for me.. its saying "I don't want to say Yes, because that will make you think that everything is going to be gravy... but I don't want to say no either, because I don't want you to think I just don't care at all either"...
> 
> "I'm really stuck in this rut where I don't like either option at this point."
> 
> ...


So I would just say, we need to take some steps towards intimacy so we are going to start with me giving you a massage. Set a date / time for it. You are not demanding and you are not asking. You are asserting that bacuse ther eis this impasse as the Alpha male you are going to lead with this step. The two of you together. No yes. No no.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> the question is, how long is "enough"?
> 
> I mean, I understand that she put up with me for a long time.. but I wasn't doing anything I did "knowingly". I still hugged, kissed, and had sex with her even during all those times that she didn't feel she got attention from me.
> 
> I on the other hand, am completely cut off from her, and she's 100% aware of it.


You already know you could have done better. Stop beating yourself up. Be in the now. You need to have self esteem. That is sexy. Be confident. That is sexy.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Locard said:


> You need man up, and for Gods sake stop 1- Apologizing 2- Being whiney 3- Writing her letters. She sees you as weak. All the things she say says were wrong about the old you, let me ask you this, did she have sex with you then?
> 
> *I would be warry of a EA/PA, not sure but would be on the look out. *
> 
> ...


You have no chance if this is going on. I am betting there have been a few on and off. Maybe not so off. Lets hope not, but if this is going on what you playing against a stacked deck.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Locard said:


> I would also like to add....the next time she offeres sex even if she just lays there, do it!! Many little chemical actions take place after sex and change perspective a lot. I know no one wants "pitty" sex and I've been frustrated with my wife in the past, but just do it. It does not mean a total change in stategy.


Exactly. One step at a time.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

So its been a while since I posted.

We haven't fought at all for the most part since then.

She's still being drug under the bus by her work for this promotion she's up for and she's vented and leaned on me alot for that. She is supposed to find out Tuesday if she gets it or not. However, in the time since I last posted.. we still have shared no intimacy.. She forgot about fathers day til the last minute and decided to take me out to eat, and then kept asking me if Father's day sucked. I told her No, we wound up taking our son to Chuck e Cheese that day so I told her just being with my family was all the gift I needed. She didn't really respond.

The next week was my birthday. I got a text after I left for work that said "Sorry I forgot to tell you happy birthday". I turned 30 last week. She didn't do anything for me at all. Of course I really didn't expect her to either.

Last night she brought up the subject of us again. She seems to want to talk about it, but anytime the "sex" word is mentioned she gets defensive and just wants to not think about it. Even though she brings it up. Last night she did tell me that me and her is only part of the issue. She isn't happy with ANY aspect of her life right now, not her job, not our child, not me. She said she hates going to work, but she hates coming home. Our son is at that age where he's very Hyper and so there's just no downtime and so she goes from one headache to another. We talked a little bit about how to focus his energy into something constructive, because its gotten to the point where we can't go anywhere with him. He won't sit still, constantly making some sort of noise, and just will not wear out til we are far gone. If we didn't "make" him go to bed, he'd stay up all night.

The other side of it is the job, and the stress she's had lately there. She's busting her tail to get this promotion, and being taken advantage of. I told her I stood by her in whatever she did, and even if that meant quitting. She seemed to appreciate that.

However, when it comes to intimacy or sex.. she says she doesn't even like thinking about it. I asked her if it was just intimacy or sex with me or in general, and she said she just didn't want to think about having sex at all. I told her that I wished I knew the right answer and wish I knew what to tell her to make her snap out of it.. but that was all her. She said "If I knew how to feel different.. I would". 

Is she going through a crisis? It doesn't seem like its totally about me anymore. I mean she's never had a HUGE sex drive.. but now its non existent, like it almost grosses her out to just think about it. I don't think she's doing anything with anyone else either. I think the idea of it in general doesn't even appeal to her right now. 

She's on antidepressents but she started feeling like this before she got on those.

She's on the depo shot, and has been for 3 years. She's on blood pressure meds, and the antidepressent is called.. amnitrypiline(sp). I told her I was just waiting patiently. She said she felt like she wasn't being fair to me, because I was literally just waiting around on her. I told her it sucked, because we just seem to go through the motions of life rather than enjoy it. I feel like her roommate. I asked her "why she felt like this" and she said she didn't know and she said "what if I can't get past this?" I told her I didn't know, but we obviously couldn't function in a marriage like that. It just wouldn't work. She eventually got upset and didn't want to talk anymore.. what do I do? Continue to wait it out?


----------



## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

Hey Random . . . I think you're being really patient. I was anti-depressants several years ago. The first drugs made me completely ED (I was only 39 and before the drugs, I was depressed but could get it up). She should talk to her Dr about alternative anti-depressants and perhpas the high blood pressure meds too - and her sex drive. I haven't read carefully all the posts, but she seems willing at least to start a conversation with you about this - which seems an improvement. Good luck.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> She's on antidepressents but she started feeling like this before she got on those.
> 
> She's on the depo shot, and has been for 3 years. She's on blood pressure meds, and the antidepressent is called.. amnitrypiline(sp). I told her I was just waiting patiently. She said she felt like she wasn't being fair to me, because I was literally just waiting around on her. I told her it sucked, because we just seem to go through the motions of life rather than enjoy it. I feel like her roommate. I asked her "why she felt like this" and she said she didn't know and she said "what if I can't get past this?" I told her I didn't know, but we obviously couldn't function in a marriage like that. It just wouldn't work. She eventually got upset and didn't want to talk anymore.. what do I do? Continue to wait it out?


It sounds like your wife has a perfect storm of issues. One thing that stood out for me is all of the medications. Many of the medications she is on are potential libido killers.

Depo provera has a common side effect of loss of sex drive. Anything that decreases ovulation (i.e., any hormonal birth control) can decrease sex drive because ovulation is when a lot of the testosterone (needed for libido) is released. You decrease testosterone, you decrease libido. Depo has a particularly bad reputation for killing sex drives. Depo-Provera (medroxyprogesterone acetate)

You may want to tackle some of these issues one at a time. I think she should go to a doctor and discuss her medications and her lack of sex drive. Perhaps she should try a non-hormonal method of birth control, and perhaps her anti-depressant medication is one that causes loss of desire and there are other alternatives for her.

Next, if she is continually stressed with work and child, she needs to work on de-stressing techniques. The best, easiest, cheapest one - exercise. Even moderate exercise - like taking a walk everyday when she gets home - could help. So could something like yoga.

So, get a plan together to tackle some of the practical issues like her stress and her medications.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> It sounds like your wife has a perfect storm of issues. One thing that stood out for me is all of the medications. Many of the medications she is on are potential libido killers.
> 
> Depo provera has a common side effect of loss of sex drive. Anything that decreases ovulation (i.e., any hormonal birth control) can decrease sex drive because ovulation is when a lot of the testosterone (needed for libido) is released. You decrease testosterone, you decrease libido. Depo has a particularly bad reputation for killing sex drives. Depo-Provera (medroxyprogesterone acetate)
> 
> ...


I've already done my research on the depo provera.. and I can very well see it being a cause. She's been on it, since we had our Son, which is during the span when all this started. The new baby syndrome just kept her so busy during that time, we never thought about sex that much.

The other problem too, is that she feels overweight because she's never fully lost the baby weight. She weighed about 105 before, and now she weights about 135-140.. which she is by no means "fat" at all.. and I tell her that constantly when she complains that she is. We were walking for a bit together, but our son doesn't allow us to get much of anything done.

I've brought up getting off the shot before and it got shot down quick. See its the holy grail for women to not have a period, and thats literally the only reason she's on it. Its not like we "need" it for birth control right now ya know? lol. I tried to tell her that the reason she is having such a hard time losing that little bit of weight might be because of the depo.. because it literally acts as if you are pregnant still. I've read countless articles on it causing weight gain, and the inability to lose said weight. I also read about the loss in libido.. but I don't know how to confront her again without it seeming like I'm trying to solve her problems for it, and take the blame off me. I do take blame for the parts that WERE my fault.. but with everything going on like it is.. there's more to this than just anger towards me. She also thinks that because her sister is on it, and is skinny and has no "libido" problems that she shouldn't either. In other words, she doesn't want it to be that which is causing the problem..

I'd blame it on the depo more so than the others, since this behavior started long before she ever got on the blood pressure and antidepressents.. which she did BECAUSE of this behavior.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> I've already done my research on the depo provera.. and I can very well see it being a cause. She's been on it, since we had our Son, which is during the span when all this started. The new baby syndrome just kept her so busy during that time, we never thought about sex that much.
> 
> The other problem too, is that she feels overweight because she's never fully lost the baby weight. She weighed about 105 before, and now she weights about 135-140.. which she is by no means "fat" at all.. and I tell her that constantly when she complains that she is. We were walking for a bit together, but our son doesn't allow us to get much of anything done.
> 
> ...


My husband always said that hormonal birth control works because it ensures the woman never wants sex. There's the perfect birth control - abstinence! 

Seriously, depo also causes weight gain in women, which may be why she is battling that too as you've noted. Just because her sister doesn't react that way is not an indicator that she won't. I still think she should consider what other options there may be.

If I had to choose between weight gain/loss of libido and having a period, I would choose the period. Honestly, women are supposed to have periods, and to try and control them by artificial means is just asking for trouble, especially long-term, imo.

I don't know how old your little guy is. If he's at the point where he can be tied in to a stroller/jogger or seat on the back of the bike, I would do it. If he's active, then walk him down to a park/play area and let him have it. It could also be possible that he picks up on your wife's stress and distraction and is acting out for attention. But if he's todder/preschooler, activity is usually the name of the game and you can incorporate that in to the activities you do together if you try hard enough.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Yeah, he's 3 almost 4.. and we talked about that some too. She even mentioned that she thought some of his acting out might be due to him noticing tension between his parents. He wants attention and he's not getting any, not the right kind anyway. I sat down with him last night and put together a puzzle with him and he seemed fairly calm. My problem is trying to get her to ask her doctor about it, I don't want her to think I'm trying to solve her issues or make them not about me.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> My problem is trying to get her to ask her doctor about it, I don't want her to think I'm trying to solve her issues or make them not about me.


You have proven that there is no amount of groveling that will make her forgive you. You have to forgive yourself for being a dope. But the best you can do now is move forward in a more positive manner.

If your wife insists on punishing you forever, you may want to leave her. If not, the least you can do is stop saying, "Thank you ma'am, may I have another?"
YouTube - ‪Kevin Bacon - Fraternity Paddle‬‏

Tell your wife that you expect her to come up with an idea and then do it. Offer your ideas of exercise, changing birth control, changing antidepressants, having her hormones checked, etc. Offer to help. However, the two of you should be past just sitting idly by and hoping for some outside agency to force a change in her feelings toward you.

I know it's a bad time for her at work. But, the only thing worse than getting divorced now is letting her abuse you for another year, and then getting divorced. And hey, there's a chance that it could work.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Well, our son was at his grandparents tonight.

We went and grabbed some fast food.. didn't share 2 words there, or back. I sighed a few times, and she asked me what was wrong and I said nothing.

We watched a movie together, her on her side of the couch, me on mine. She'd ask me questions about the movie and I'd respond. But thats about all the conversation that was had.

She got her pillow and headed to bed pretty much as soon as the movie ended. She stayed up and we watched part of "couples retreat" (she fell asleep half way through). Didn't speak..

I tell ya, that movie as stupid as it was.. had alot of the same things we are going through.. and it was hard to watch them and their happy endings.

Earlier today I texted her when I took our son to stay with his grandparents.. I told her I knew she hated when I said stuff like this right now, but that I missed her. She didn't respond.

She seems confused. Its like all the other times when she's wanted to make up her own mind, but never has been able to.. she's always had to get advice or do what someone else does... or says.. and now that its her choice to make about our marriage.. she doesn't know how to do it.. so she just sits there holding everything in while I try to figure out what she's thinking.


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Part of your problem is that there isn't enough time for a couple between a stressful job, a baby and a relationship. 

Can she afford to get done at work? Things are obviously not working right now, maybe that can give her the time she needs for her, you and the child. 

My wife and I both work in high stress jobs and both get called in on top of it. When we had our first child I worked shift work and watched the baby and my mom helped out when we both were working. 

Then we had a second child and she and I went to the same schedule as hers. It blew. Something had to give and for the most part it was our R, and sex declcined. Something has to give eventually. 

We had a talk and she walked away from her high paying job. Money was tight but we don't regret it. Now that our boys are older and are in school, she has gone back to work and things are great. Just a thought. 

One other thing, this no sex for 6 months is f-ing rediculous. She KNOWS there are no consequenses for not putting out and does not take your serouisly.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

There's no way we could make it without her working.

Not Unless I somehow got a huge payraise.. which ain't happening.

She hasn't said anything to me at all today unless it was related to fixing something around the house, cleaning, or something relating to the every day drill we go through. We didn't "talk" at all. She's already in bed, and has already took one nap today.

Its not just no sex in 6 months.. its no kissing, no hugging, no telling each other we love each other, no cuddling, no touching at all..


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Sorry to hear that. Maybe consider downsizing? I am curious to see what her reaction would be to the suggestion?


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> Now, she texts me...
> 
> "Ya know it really makes me want to f****** leave when I have to come home to 2 children".


whoa. anger, hurt and resentment aside, there still needs to be a level of respect. I'd not accept this tone from anyone. I'm not saying you should leave but c'mon, this is unacceptable imo. She could still express herself without disrespecting you personally and threatening to leave. Maybe this wasn't a big deal for you, everyone's different but I started reading your thread and this really jumped out at me. This is probably a few weeks old for you now. I'm playing catch up.

I hope you keep a level of self-respect and dignity during this time. As well as perhaps 'leading by example' showing her respect in return.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

^^^ I agree with the above. You need some major manning up. You will be treated the way you allow you self to be treated. I can tell you as a woman if my husband let me get away with mothing off like that, I would lose respect for him. Just saying. 

When dealing with women you can't take any s**t. The reason is that we are attracted to men who are in charge it gives us confidence that he can take care of himself in the world and therefore his family. her attitude towards her own kids is unacceptable how dare she say that about kids she brought into the world. 

You can not allow this. You have to demand not ask that she fix her attitude towards yor children like yesterday. She and her job problems are nit the most important eliments in your family. 

Who is the adult here? who will step up and take the lead this family. You are concentrating your effirts on the lest needy person in this. In my ooinion the hierarchy is as follows - kids(hepless need Aduls), you ( being unfairly dumped on and starved) then your wife(she is causing the sress by her immature selfish attitude) She can't so it falls to you protect your kids it's not their fault she is sressed so she needs to get tgat strait now. 

I suggest going to the mens club and read up. PM some of the men there -MEM, Big bad wolf, Conrad they will guide. You are a good man and manning up will not change that but you will learn how to handle your wife so that she respects you as a man. She will have more confidence in you and be more receptive to having sex. 

You should be coming together physically now to get you both through this not drifting appart. You have to have a plan in case she dies not get this position. If she does get it you will need bigger plan. I really think a supervisory position is not good at this point, will bring more stress. You have an emergency here so act fast to save your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> ^^^ I agree with the above. You need some major manning up. You will be treated the way you allow you self to be treated. I can tell you as a woman if my husband let me get away with mouthing off like that, I would lose respect for him. Just saying.
> 
> When dealing with women you can't take any s**t.


This goes for both men and women.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

That's true but for different reasons I think. From what I read, For men allowing disrespect makes him seem weak and unable to slay dragons so to speak. His partner may lose sexual attraction to him For women allowing disrespect makes her lose her value in his eyes that leads his not appreciating her contribution to the family and ultimately saps her self- esteem. I was concentrating on the male aspect to drive my point home. Hope that explains.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Not withstanding whether or not manning up will help, the OP's wife appears to like the trappings of wealth and the convenience of not having periods vastly more than she likes sex or intimacy.

Unless the OP can make sex and intimacy feel better than keeping their current standard of living feels to her, and make sex and intimacy attractive enough to make having periods acceptable, he hasn't got a pot to p*ss in.

Respect, alphadom, and p*ssing contests aren't going to help if the financial pluses are top of her agenda


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

This weekend was pretty bad. She hadn't "talked" to me since our Talk the other night. I was really getting down in the dumps and the only things she said to me were regarding chores I hadn't done, or things she wanted me to do. No actual conversation.

The next morning, she started in again on stuff I hadn't done or needed to do.. and I let her have it. The results weren't pretty. I got pretty upset (tried not to), and she told me that she couldn't just instantly fall in love with me again. I told her I never expected her to do so, but it takes the both of us to work on our marriage and she feels like she's already "tried" and she doesn't want to try now. I told her I could do everything in my power to be better to her, and do everything she wants and none of it will matter if she's not going to be accepting of any of it and at least attempt to work through it with me. She said "I'll just stay and be miserable so everyone else can be happy". I said, how can we be happy? That will just make everyone miserable. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, point blank.

Then, I asked her.. "If your so unhappy, why do you stay? Either you care more than you say you do, or there's something else your hiding". I got no answer. So I said, why do you always dodge that question? And she said, "Do I look like a fortune teller? I don't know." 

So, this morning she starts texting me about an altercation we had this morning with our son. He was being whiny, and I was trying to help her out.. but all it did was get on her nerves.. because he just acted out even more.

So I told her I wished we could just work on things together. I feel like she's putting everything else in her life before her marriage, just as she says I did. So, then she reiterated again that she was unhappy.. with everything and that she had already told me this over and over and that I just wasn't getting it. I again said "Well, I don't know what to do at this point. If you are that unhappy.. you know what you have to do. You control your own happiness and who your happy with."

"You have the chance to be happy, without losing anyone or anything or you can start over and hope that you get dealt a better hand than you think you did this time". 

I don't know what she's wanting out of this.

She told me to "leave her the F alone" because I kept texting her. The last one I said that I'd even pay for a set up counciling for us.. if she'd be willing to go. A few minutes after telling me to F off.. she calls me almost as if she felt bad.. but wanted to make sure I knew she was just angry because today is the day she finds out about that job.. and she just didn't want to have a bad day today.. I haven't talked to her since.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

So I do freelance IT work for her office, and I had to go install a HD today on one of their machines. She came in and asked how long that was gonna take.. I said I'm not sure.. She said, "Well I was gonna see if you wanted to get some lunch since your here". I said sure.. so we went and had lunch. We didn't talk about us at all, she vented some about her job and other stuff. I was surprised that she even offered after our earlier texts.

I sent her a text near her meeting tonight wishing her good luck. I got a call on her way home, telling me they had again pushed it back and still hadn't made a decision on who gets the position.. so she vented to me about that on her way home, and some more once she got home.. 

It was weird though. We spent the entire night talking.. and it wasn't just about her job, it was about all sorts of stuff. It was nice to just "Talk" Maybe she wasn't thinking the same as me.. but it really was a nice change for once. We talked all the way til she went to bed. I dunno if it helped that I'd already given our son a bath and had food on the table ready for her when she got home or what..

I did mention to her that we were going to have to figure out this "situation" soon. She just said "I know, but its not something I can decide over night"...

Is she trying? or is this just more mixed signals.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

more of the same today, asked me again to lunch today. We went shopping for some clothes for our son, and talked alot. She will finally find out about this job tomorrow.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

randomguy ~

In all honesty, you need to go to the following. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read through all the posts and start to implement. You have a very strong-willed wife, and you are letting her walk all over you. She needs an equally strong husband to balance her out. If you aren't willing to get your act together and demand some respect from your wife, then you can expect only more of the same. imho.

Godspeed.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

She didn't get the promotion. They decided not to tell her until the meeting last night. She was ALREADY doing the job, for no increase in pay, and gave up alot of stuff in her life in order to do so. The person they gave it to, was less qualified, had only worked there half the time, and showed no interest in the job other than applying for it.

Needless to say my wife was very upset, and as such didn't go in today. She's seriously contemplating leaving her job this point and I told her that I'd stand behind whatever choice she made, as she did me when I did the same. I told her that this might be her chance to do something she wants to do and that maybe she should use this opportunity to do so. Her dad offered to pay for her to go back to school, no questions asked. Is this a smart move?


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Update! She decided to go to nursing school, and stick with her current job as a means to an end, until we can get her car payed off and a few other debts... and then she's going to quit and focus on only school. Her entire mood has changed over the past couple days. She's talkative, and she called me 3 times today to vent about people trying her like crap today at work.

I've been helping her do paperwork for school all day, and we got her a laptop. She seems pretty excited about going to school. I think she's finally found that thing she's been looking for all this time. I've been being super supportive.

Tonight she brought up "S-E-X" and what we were going to do about it. Were we going to just have a sexless marriage forever? I told her, we couldn't do that. She said that she didn't even want to at all right now. I'd never tried this approach before. but I said, well maybe you just need to do it.. just make yourself do it. She was apprehensive at first, and I told her that you never know.. maybe its going to take "doing it" to get the spark back, even if you may not "want" to at the start. It won't be the first time she "made" herself do something just to make me happy.. same thing applies here.

A little bit later, she said "Well maybe once I'm not pissed off about this job anymore, and things settle back to normal.. things will get better between us". I just smiled and didn't say anything back.

We would up playing a game of cards, and talked some more before bedtime.. an overall good night for a change.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> Update! She decided to go to nursing school, and stick with her current job as a means to an end, until we can get her car payed off and a few other debts... and then she's going to quit and focus on only school. Her entire mood has changed over the past couple days. She's talkative, and she called me 3 times today to vent about people trying her like crap today at work.
> 
> I've been helping her do paperwork for school all day, and we got her a laptop. She seems pretty excited about going to school. I think she's finally found that thing she's been looking for all this time. I've been being super supportive.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your wife has a had time coping with stress and de-compressing. I'd encourage her to look into techniques (exercise, yoga, meditation, etc.) that could help her learn how to deal with the stressors she will encouter in life so that you don't have to be on the stress see-saw anymore.

And, as far as just doing it - I would actually recommend that she give it a shot. Sometimes it's hard for people to get back in to the groove and they want to wait for the perfect situation, but I think that saying about "use it or lose it" is true. And, the more you do it, the more likely you are to want to continue to do it.

Best Wishes.


----------



## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Ehh, I'm still not sure you are getting it. You really need to do the no more mr nice guy thing. 

All I hear is "Well honey, when everything is picture perfect, I might remember my vows and let you have a crumb, maybe, theoretically, possibly" You still need to man up. 

I would also not be signing up for a boatload of debt to fund her new career if she isn't going to take your marriage seriously. Maybe I'm all wet, maybe.


----------



## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> Thanks for your responses. I don't expect her to madly fall head over heels for me over night again, but I'd like for her to notice that I'm trying to work on myself and show her that I realize what an idiot I'd been all this time and am willing to do whatever it takes to make it right again. So that the next 8 years of our marriage are amazing.
> 
> My son is super attached to me, and I fight for the love I have for my wife and for the fact that I don't want him to have to grow up with split up parents. We are great with him, and he loves us both to death. He looks at me like I'm a super hero.. and I love every minute of it.
> 
> ...


Tell her how good it was to hear her voice. Its often the little things like that that mean so much to women. It sounds like you are on the right track but its going to take a while so keep working on it and remember the little seemingly insignificant things often have the most impact. leave her a little sticky note from time to time in a unexpected place. compliment her on how she looks or smells or whatever. Go back to treating her like you just met her and are trying to win her love for the first time. 

If you get the chance woo her slowly give her the most rocking cunnilingus you can muster and tell her you just want to do this for her. Don't expect anything for yourself. You just pleasure her and let her know its all about her. I've done this just because I wanted her to know how I felt about her, that she is special and deserves special treatment.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Haven't posted in a while.

Things have gotten better. She starts college for nursing Wednesday, she's been really excited about that and I've done nothing but encourage and help her so far. I promised her I'd help her all I can, and I believe thats helped some. She's no longer stressed and depressed as much as she was.. however, theres still some issue there.

She's brought up sex a few times.. saying things like.

Maybe once I get back into a routine things will get better between us...

Who knows, maybe the excitement of school will make things get better for us in that area..

Tonight she said..

"Well I guess at some point we need to try to attempt to have sex".

I told her that I was just waiting on her. 

She didn't reply. 

A bit later she was talking about school and said something that bothered me badly..

"Well if things don't work out between us you have to at least stay married to me until I finish school" 

She sort of chuckled, but I didn't find it funny and I let her know it.

That thought had already crossed my mind, because right now she can't complete her degree without me as I will be paying all the bills when she winds up having to quit her job to go full time. I told her that, that wasn't the deal and I wasn't going be there just to help her get through school. Its a partnership. She seemed like she got mad, but didn't say anything.. how was I supposed to react? 

A bit later she could tell I was upset and kept asking me what was wrong.

I asked her if she was serious about what she said earlier, and she said "see, you wait until late to let this stuff out". I told her I was just trying to avoid a fight.

Then I asked her if she was serious about having sex, or was that just a way to appease me for the time being.

She said, "Well we are gonna have to do something eventually".

I said, well when is that going to be? She didn't know.

I told her the ball was in her court as I was unsure of how to even approach her for that kind of thing anymore. But I did tell her that maybe just "doing it" even though you might not want to, might break down that barrier to get past it. Then she went on to say..

"Well when we do, you need to get some condoms because I don't want you going inside me"...

What?

We've been married for 9 years, together for 12.. we have a child. I've been going in you since we were first married. You never had a problem them? What the heck? 

She said, it was disgusting and she just never said anything. She said it had been nice not having to have it drip out of her for the next 2 days, or change underwear multiple times afterwards.

I said, why didn't you mention this years ago, if it bothered you so much? Why now?

She seemed to not understand why it was a big deal to me. I look at it as a thing married people do, and to not do it after all these years.. i feel like just some guy she's "sleeping" with who she doesn't want "in her", but wants to joys from it in other ways.

not only that, she's developed this strange aversion to sex in movies and nudity. She used to not give a crap, but now she makes it a point to point out how there's too much female nudity and sex in movies now and she hates watching them.

So I finally asked her, was the issue with JUST me.. or SEX in general. She didn't really have an answer, it was def. partly me.. but just the way she's acting leads me to think she's not telling me everything.. I just don't know what.

At least we are "talking" about it now, thats better than how its been for the past 6 months.. thoughts?


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

The other niggling thought in the back of my mind is - she's either now just speaking up about her preference for condoms or (and I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt so I'm sorry for taking it to a dark place) is there any chance someone else is/has been in the picture?


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

thats exactly why it bothered me when she all of a sudden brought it up. When it was never an issue before.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

There are several red flags that indicate that she may be involved in a P or EA. That or she is planning something of the sort. 

When someone says something in an unguarded moment, believe them. My interpretation of the exchange you recount her is that she 1) sees you as a means to an end, providing her with tuition fir school; 2) she is no longer physically attracted to you; 3) she is repulsed by you and having sex with you. 

When your wife goes to school, she will change because she will come into contact with others and may pick up their values and way of life. If they are unmarried and enjoying the fun of unmarried life, she may find that attractive and drift further away from you. Her bond is too weak to prevent this I think. 

I don't think your bond with her is strong enough to survive the stress of school and the pull of new social experiences. She is telling you indirectly that she is no longer attracted to you. If she told was truthful, she would lose her source of finances. . 

Why are you investing in your wife when she is really not being a wife. Given what she is telling you, you will not benefit from your investment in terms of increased income for the family and a happy wife who is fully involved with you. She does not respect you if she has the nerve to lay out her plans and expect you to do nothing. She is sticking it in your face and laughing all the way to the bank in my opinion. 

I think you have somehow lost her respect and love. She was quite certain she can tell you that she sees you as a bank and she is no longer sexually attracted to you and you will be foolish enough not only not confront her but to continue to be her bank and even grovel at her feet begging for a bone. 

I may be totally wrong only you know what is really going on and if you have been totally revealing about the nature of what is going on. If what you say is an accurate description of what is happening the I have to be frank and call you a fool and a sap. I say that in an effort to get you to consider what you are doing and change up or risk much heartache in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

If I told my husband what she told you on the eve of quitting my job and depending on him to pay for school, he would tell me not to stop working because he would not be taken for a fool. You should do the same. I don't think being nicer to her and flirting will help to regain her respect. 

Act like a strong man to be reckoned with. Why should you further debase your self to a person who does not show you that she respects and loves you? Rather you should be telling her that you are not as foolish as she thinks and she will have to prove to you that you are more than a bank to her. You should refuse to support her in this endever until she demonstrates that she loves you and is not using you. Don't tell her the using part. You seem very weak. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Locard said:


> Ehh, I'm still not sure you are getting it. You really need to do the no more mr nice guy thing.
> 
> All I hear is "Well honey, when everything is picture perfect, I might remember my vows and let you have a crumb, maybe, theoretically, possibly" You still need to man up.
> 
> I would also not be signing up for a boatload of debt to fund her new career if she isn't going to take your marriage seriously. Maybe I'm all wet, maybe.


:iagree:

Randomguy - This (no more nice guy) has been recommended to you several times. In light of the most current events, why aren't you considering this?

If I were in your position, I wouldn't be waiting for her to come to me and for everything to smooth out. I would become the master of my own destiny - I would be trying to become the kind of guy who sails his own ship and if she's lucky she can come along for the ride.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Enchantment - Perfect!!! ^^^^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Why are you investing in your wife when she is really not being a wife. Given what she is telling you, you will not benefit from your investment in terms of increased income for the family and a happy wife who is fully involved with you. She does not respect you if she has the nerve to lay out her plans and expect you to do nothing. She is sticking it in your face and laughing all the way to the bank in my opinion.
> 
> I think you have somehow lost her respect and love. She was quite certain she can tell you that she sees you as a bank and she is no longer sexually attracted to you and you will be foolish enough not only not confront her but to continue to be her bank and even grovel at her feet begging for a bone.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

She told you flat out that she is staying with you so that you can pay for her schooling. I do not see how she could have been much clearer. 

It seems to me you now have a choice: 
1) Do nothing, then act surprised when she actually does what she said she would do and leaves you once she gets her degree; or
2) Man-up and face the problem (including stop paying for her school).


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

well more has come to light.

I don't get how you can 'man up" without being a douchewad. I just have a hard time being that. I told her last night, that if she was being serious about that then she just needed to decide whether she wanted to be married or not because that wasn't the deal.

Is that not manning up? School was my idea, because she didn't get the job she wanted.

But in light of the other stuff I've found out today, there may be even more reason for going to school.

she was talking to a friend on facebook and she asked 

"Why are you so sad?"

"Because I'm still unhappy and I don't know what to do"

"Why not lay it all out for your husband?"

"I can't its too deep of a secret"

"How long have you been keeping this secret?"

"Over a year"

"Is it what I think it is?"

messages deleted...

"You can tell me"

"I have to be careful because he may check my stuff"

"Just delete it"

"We'd have to download some sort of chat thing"

"Well, how bad would it be if this secret got out?"

"Probably a divorce, job loss and an ass kicking"

"Jobloss?"

"Yeah, it involves work in a way but its not about work".

"Oh".

-----

That tells me just about all I need to know without just coming out and saying it.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> I don't get how you can 'man up" without being a douchewad. I just have a hard time being that. I told her last night, that if she was being serious about that then she just needed to decide whether she wanted to be married or not because that wasn't the deal.
> 
> Is that not manning up? School was my idea, because she didn't get the job she wanted.
> -----
> ...


Manning up is not being a douchewad. It is about recognizing that your needs are just as important as her needs. 

I am sorry about this new information. I imagine this must be tough for you.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> I don't get how you can 'man up" without being a douchewad. I just have a hard time being that.


Are men with self-respect douchewads? Are men who refuse to be used and played for chumps douchewads? I don't think so. Those men command respect from others and they command attraction from women.




randomguy1 said:


> I told her last night, that if she was being serious about that then she just needed to decide whether she wanted to be married or not because that wasn't the deal.
> 
> Is that not manning up? School was my idea, because she didn't get the job she wanted.


That's a step up for you. The ultimate would be not to give her an infinite amount of time to decide whether she wants to be your wife or not. I think a man with self-respect would give his wife a few days to sort her thoughts and commit to him. If she couldn't, then he would make the choice for her and help her pack.

Sorry about the new, not so new, information. I think she's still disrespecting you. She deleted the messages where she described exactly what positions she and the OM used, but left enough of the conversation so that it would be clear to everyone what happened.

If you want to man up here, decide whether this is a deal-breaker for you. If it is, get a lawyer and file for divorce. Don't wait for her to get her degree. If it's not, then send her a text tomorrow saying, "Tonight is the night." Buy your condoms and have sex with her. Don't ask. Then, start marriage counseling to get over the affair and keep your self-improvement.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> If I told my husband what she told you on the eve of quitting my job and depending on him to pay for school, he would tell me not to stop working because he would not be taken for a fool. You should do the same. I don't think being nicer to her and flirting will help to regain her respect.
> 
> Act like a strong man to be reckoned with. Why should you further debase your self to a person who does not show you that she respects and loves you? Rather you should be telling her that you are not as foolish as she thinks and she will have to prove to you that you are more than a bank to her. You should refuse to support her in this endever until she demonstrates that she loves you and is not using you. Don't tell her the using part. You seem very weak.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: :iagree:

I take back my thoughts about flirting with her and being nice. I overlooked this part of the story. 

I agree with the others and as for the new piece of the puzzle, perhaps whatever has gone on related to her workplace is the reason why she thinks her starting school might help improve things between you, as she won't be in that environment anymore and around certain people/person.

Yep, time to harden up and start thinking more about what you want out of this and how you want your life to be.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

More info...

I went home today, took my son to his MIL to stay for a few hours so I could talk to her.

I sat her down and told her that I was excited about school, but couldn't go into this without some sort of grounding on what we were going to do. She said she couldn't tell the future, and she didn't know. I told her that I was trying to fight for our marriage and although I would help her with school, she couldn't put marriage on the backburner.

I didn't accuse her of anything at all, because while I know what I read.. there was no talk of any "acts" or anything specific. She has a secret that is bad enough she thinks it would cost her marriage, her job, and and ass kicking.. but she never said what it was, and she only said she'd been keeping the secret for a year.. not that whatever it is had been going on that long.

I don't know how severe it is, and without utterly undeniable proof I'd just be opening another can of worms that might be totally wrong. But yeah, it doesn't look good..

However with that being said, I've already decided that if she's willing to work on our marriage. I'm willing to try to forgive her for whatever she's done. I've "been" there.. although mine never got to the point of it being physical. I know how she feels I was there once, had someone telling me all the things I wanted to hear, and I stayed depressed for months because I was unsure of what I wanted to do.. until I just realized one day.. Hey.. this isn't right.

Part of me wants to say she maybe had a "fling" and just feels guilty about it. How big of a fling.. is the question and she may just be trying to repress it because she realizes how big of an impact it would make. I can't "change" it even if it did happen, but I don't know that she's ever going to come out and tell me. 

Anyway, she said well what are you wanting to do have sex? I said, no thats not why I got you alone. She said, well we have to at some point. And then we got back on the subject of the condom wearing, and she went back to the "I don't like having to keep cleaning myself 2 days later because its still dripping out of me" several other females have confirmed this to be valid. I told her, that having sex wasn't going to solve everything, and I still felt like she was holding something back. I told her I was willing to try it though, but I wanted to know her feedback. 

I remembered someone else here tell me "If she offers, don't turn it down".

So, we had sex. For the first time in over a year. I expected it to be pretty terrible, but it wasn't half bad. She got into it (or at least she seemed to be) Whether or not she was thinking about me during it, I don't know. I asked her straight up afterwards if she was being real, and she said yes. She did say that just because we had sex didn't mean things were automatically better and she would want to kiss and hug all over me. Which I agreed with...

I'm so confused right now. 

After that we talked a bit and she went with me to get our son. we talked some more but later on she mentioned something about being depressed, and I stupidly said "well then make yourself undepressed". She got really defensive about that, and got upset. I told her that I wish I knew what was making her depressed, but she still says she doesn't know. The good news is, she's aware of the issues with Depo, and may come off of it. But, the question still looms over my head about what I read today and what it means.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Her secret is very likely that she slept with a client or a boss.

It's also true that secrets create new loyaties outside the marriage. No marriage can survive on lies and secrets. I can't help but feel that by carpet-sweeping you are just letting the time bomb grow bigger before it goes off.


The new condom requirement is a huge red-flag. I think she's using sex to appease you, but she doesn't want you being in some other mans territory? Most women like the feel of their man inside them, and you could have finished later with a condom.

Not to mention - why does she have condoms if you hadn't been using them before and haven't had sex for a year?

Or did her affair give her an STD? 

Have you considered asking her to sign a post-nup that if she cheats or leaves you, that she will have to pay back 100% the cost of her going to school?


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

randomguy ~

I am so sorry that you seem to have had a monkey wrench thrown in to everything else that has been going on.

I know that it's very easy for people to jump to conclusions about what the conversation meant that your wife had with her friend. But, in my book, you don't have much of a marriage unless you can openly communicate with each other. As the previous poster said, a marriage cannot survive on lies and secrets.

I think you need to seriously think about how you would approach your wife with this new information and your concerns. If it were me, I would have been burning up my H's ears before I had even finished reading the fb messages. But that is me - I don't let things lie around and fester. 

God Bless.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

I agree with you, but in this case. I still have to look at it as "innocent until proven guilty". 

A friend of mine said "How do you know she doesn't know your checking her stuff, and is trying to see if you will call her out on it..then nothing is going on and you get reamed for invading her privacy again?"

I don't have names, I don't have acts.

I only know that it is bad enough that she feels it would lead to a divorce if I knew, or that she'd lose her job over it. I know how that sounds, and I've already put the pieces together to fit the puzzle of what you guys have already said is probably the case.

But its also easy to automatically assume the worst. There's definitely no silver lining here. But I also know that if I invade her privacy and call her out on it by telling her I went through her things to find it, and I'm wrong.. she'll leave anyway and thats what I am trying to avoid.

I'd hate to live the rest of my life knowing had I made a different choice, I'd have been able to save my marriage. I don't want to be wrong. I want to be 100% undeniable with the facts. It needs to be to where there is no way to make excuses or stories. Right now all I have are some very concerning fb messages, that may or may not mean she had physical contact with anybody. 

I know for a fact the "guy" in question, is uncircumcised and she's always been sorely unattracted to that, thinking its icky. I do know he's the only one I'd put my finger on as being him.. because she confided in her with his marital problems which I KNEW was a bad thing.. because once you put two people together who are both in marriages they currently hate.. things happen that they'll regret later.

I regret my mistake too, but I was able to get control of myself before I took it beyond the point of repair.

She's planning to quit her job after a year of school, which would get her away from him. She doesn't talk to him except for at work, and she's even come home with bad things to say about him. So I do not believe anything is going on now, and thats the main concern for me.. because while I can try to forgive her for screwing up once, I can't do anything if she wants to be with this person.

Tonight was fairly normal, i helped cook, we watched a movie and we talked about her school a lot. She didn't mention our conversation to her friend at all nor the issue from Monday.

The weird thing is.. about 6 months ago, I got an anonymous text from someone saying.

"You need to ask your wife whats going between her and ???"

I got it at like 2 am in the morning, so I looked at her cell phone, and i saw a few texts from him.. but not her replies.. that said "I'm sorry things are not going good for you" "I miss you".

I flipped out..

woke her up, and confronted her. She denied it. I told her, if she was telling the truth she should show me her phone (she didn't know I'd already looked at) She told me if i touched her phone, then we were through. (BIG red flag) but stupid me listened to her. For the next 3 days all she did was cry, and she was sure that it was his wife who had sent the text. And it got out over her office and she denied it there too. She even went as far as to talk to the sheriff, to see if anything could be done about the text. she told me that she couldn't take it because she knew whoever it was, was going to keep on sending me stuff and I was going to believe them. I told her if she didn't do anything why did she have to worry? Red flag again..

and it doesn't make sense because she would come home with stories about HIS cheating wife.. and how terrible she is because she screws anything with a penis. How could you have those opinions and then run out and do the same thing?

None of if makes any sense.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> I agree with you, but in this case. I still have to look at it as "innocent until proven guilty".


I think you're looking at it like the OJ/Casey Anthony juries. Sure they probably did it, but there's a 0.000001% chance they didn't, so not guilty.



randomguy1 said:


> A friend of mine said "How do you know she doesn't know your checking her stuff, and is trying to see if you will call her out on it..then nothing is going on and you get reamed for invading her privacy again?"


Because real life isn't a movie. People don't plan out elaborate hoaxes with M.Night Shyamalan twists at the end. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.



randomguy1 said:


> I don't have names, I don't have acts.


Sure you do. The name is the guy you think it is. The act is sex. Does it matter if it was oral versus intercourse versus everything you can think of and stuff that she would never do for you?



randomguy1 said:


> But its also easy to automatically assume the worst. There's definitely no silver lining here. But I also know that if I invade her privacy and call her out on it by telling her I went through her things to find it, and I'm wrong.. she'll leave anyway and thats what I am trying to avoid.


If you are trying to avoid pushing her to leave at all costs, then there is a very easy solution. Stop looking. Stop checking her facebook/email/phone. Stop asking her if she has cheated on you or wants to work on your marriage. You know that it irritates her. Take a step back and decide that you will accept whatever she has done/is doing/will do. You will be able to sleep at night.

But I don't think that's what you want. I think you want a wife who is faithful to you, or at least will be faithful to you in the future. Well, the way to get that is to do the opposite. You have to figure out what happened/is happening and stop it. Then you have to stand up for yourself and convince your wife that if she is unfaithful in the future, you will divorce her. If you simply let her sweep this under the rug, after she has been so blatant about it, then she will understandably believe that you either approve of her cheating, or you will stick your head in the sand in order to avoid confrontation.



randomguy1 said:


> I know for a fact the "guy" in question, is uncircumcised and she's always been sorely unattracted to that, thinking its icky.


That doesn't matter. People in affairs do things you would never imagine they were capable of.



randomguy1 said:


> She's planning to quit her job after a year of school, which would get her away from him. She doesn't talk to him except for at work, and she's even come home with bad things to say about him. So I do not believe anything is going on now, and thats the main concern for me.. because while I can try to forgive her for screwing up once, I can't do anything if she wants to be with this person.


You really can't know that. She could be gaslighting you. She may know that you suspect this guy and be trying to distract you by claiming that he annoys her. Perhaps she's annoyed because the affair has ended. Perhaps she's only acting annoyed while she bides her time until she can be with him again.



randomguy1 said:


> and it doesn't make sense because she would come home with stories about HIS cheating wife.. and how terrible she is because she screws anything with a penis. How could you have those opinions and then run out and do the same thing?
> 
> None of if makes any sense.


It makes sense in two ways. The first is that she honestly believed that adultery was a terrible thing before she did it. But people do terrible things that make them feel good all the time. There are no heroin addicts that believe that heroin is good for them. The other possibility is that she was simply trying to throw you off the scent. "You don't have to worry about me and my new boyfriend because I'm a paragon of virtue that would never cheat."


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Its been a while since I've updated this.

Not alot to report, other than we haven't fought in about a month. I make her aware ever so often that I still love her, and that I care about her and hope that things continue getting better.. I'm not sure it is or it isn't. She's made a few comments to her sister like it is.. and she no longer texts anyone but 1 or 2 close friends. She doesn't go out (not that she doesn't want to.. ) and she's working hard on school and always looking for my support in reassuring her she made the right decision.

We've still only had sex that one time.. and the only weird thing still that I'm not sure what to think about.. is she's developed this weird aversion to sex and sexually natured things.. to the point of where she is disgusted by movies (usually horror since thats what we normally watch.) that have alot of sex or nudity, when before it didn't bother her that much. She doesn't like to talk about sex either. She'll sometimes bring up us needing to try to do it, but if I try to get indepth.. she'll quickly change the subject.

Its like its not "me" per say, but just the idea of sex in general. I don't have an explanation for it. I'm done trying to find out stuff that isn't there to find. I finally did come out and point blank ask her if she had cheated on me at any point and she still says no.. and its not like a "no".. its like a "I can't believe in a million years you asked me that" no.. ruined my day no less. I haven't found anything else that would allude to that, and even if there was.. its definitely not happening now I'm sure of that. I've already forgiven her for whatever she did in my mind. I don't need to know any details to do that. I still love her, and will continue to keep trying to win her back. I'm alot closer now than I was a year ago.


----------



## samjacksonswig (Oct 16, 2010)

I feel drained as the gap between myself and my wife gets bigger and bigger. She has admitted that she doesn't want to have any sex with me because she resents me so much, and that has even found its way into the less physical stuff, such as holding hands, cuddling and even a kiss. It is this that galls me the most.


----------



## oldflyguy (Sep 15, 2011)

HMMMMMM....

reading between the lines sounds like she may have had a "quicki" E/A and fells very ashamed of it so sex/nudity is wrong...(been there)

she feels guilty about having someone else inside her and does not want you in there now....(again ashamed)

she knows she has done wrong, but blames you for forcing her to go this route for mature attention...

Sorry, but untill she comes clean then its not going to be a wonderfull relationship....

do you want it to last if she will not be honest?.....


sounds like at this point she needs you more then you need her....
I would get her alone and tell her point blank, that you heard again something had happened and if she does not come clean then you are done...

Even have a few box's half packed of your stuff ready to move out, because you may just have to move on as it sounds like she already has in her mind and just needing your support untill she is ready to leave......


OFG


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

randomguy1 said:


> Its been a while since I've updated this.
> 
> I'm alot closer now than I was a year ago.


Are you sure about that? Any updates?

I've read all of your posts in this thread and I'm really surprised at how you are hanging in there like a hair on a biscuit. You must really love this woman to continue to go through this sexless marriage (well it is at this point, isn't it?). 

Also how is your son doing? You talk alot about you and your wife, but very little is about him, other than him whining, throwing trantrums for attention, and not having a set bed time, which you need to establish FOR him; not the other way around.

My daughter is almost 6 and she goes to bed at 8:00 every night. She has since she was 6 months old. It's so much easier when they are on a schedule. 

I would recommend to you to stop focusing on your wife SO much, and focus on yourself and your son - try getting him on a bedtime routine (dinner at 6:00, bath at 7:00, read him a book EVERY night at 7:45, and TO BED at 8:00 - no questions asked). He's 3 and you are the parent, therefore YOU set the rules/schedule for him. Give it a try.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey, not alot has happened on this til yesterday.

Things were definitely improving but I could still tell something was not letting her open up totally.

yesterday she got a call from "work" while we were out shopping.

She shooed me away to take our son to the bathroom.. i knew something wasn't right.

As soon as I walked away, she got on the phone. When I returned I asked her what work wanted.. and she said "something about time cards".

I checked the cell logs from my phone.. sure enough it was the guy she worked with, whom she had already been accused of cheating with.

So I ask her again. Who called from work..

She spouts off her female bosses name. I called her out right then and there. She froze and didn't say anything. She began to backpedal but there was nowhere to go. 

She goes to the car, and I follow. I basically tell her, you better start talking because this is getting settled right now. NO more lies, no more secrets. At first she wouldn't tell me, and said that the reason she lied was because she knew how i'd react if I thought she was talking to him. I told her the truth would have been far better, because I know they work together.. so he could have legitimately been calling for work.

So then I ousted myself and told her I knew everything thats been going on, and have been keeping tabs on her despite her wishes for me not to, and that she needed to just come clean now because if she didn't I was going to find out anyway eventually. 

I went back in the store to buy my son some birthday presents (yeah great day for this to happen right?)

When I came back out, I said.. so...

and she spouted out, that she'd kissed one of the guys that she'd be texting almost a year ago, that she met at the bar..

Not the guy she works with, but the guy that I caught her texting that caused the phone plan change, and all the other crazy behavior. I was blunt and said "DID YOU DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN KISS THIS GUY?" and she said no. I told her I swore that I would find out, if there was any reason for her to lie to me beyond this point and that she needed to tell me everything that happened.

She basically said that it was right place/right time.. he was saying all the right things, and she wasn't getting that at home. She said she didn't want to "be with him" per say.. but it opened her eyes up to the idea that maybe someone else was out there for her other than me. I asked her how many times it happened, what he said to her, and whether he knew she was married. I also brought up how unattractive the guy is compared to me.. lol and the fact that he's currently in jail.. so she picked a winner!

She started crying, and got upset. I could tell she felt bad, but it was nearly an immediate change in her to get that off of her chest. I don't know why that had to be such a big deal, and I asked her why she went no further with him, and why she didn't just leave me for him. She said she saw me trying to change, and so she was sort of stuck in the middle, and the guy just stopped talking to her all together. She hasn't spoken to him since that night. I can attest to the accuracy of that.

I told her that she needs to be 100% honest with me from now on. No more lies, no more secrets. I am devoted to her and our family and she needs to do the same if she wants to make this work. We have to work as a team. We have a rocky road ahead, and I obviously don't fully trust her.. but since she's admitted that, she's been like night and day. She's even already become more receptive to affection, and even was researching how to make our sex life better..

so you guys were more or less right.. the signs don't lie.

I do feel like she's had EA with more than just this guy, but he's the only one she got physical with.. and since she's never known anyone but me in that dept.. I can see why something that small would cause such a big amount of guilt. I asked her one final time today if anything else happened besides the kiss, and she reconfirmed that this was as far as it had gone.

Lets hope she's telling the truth and we can move past this nightmare once and for all.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

She ISN'T telling you the truth, bud. They never, ever do. We had a guy here catch his wife and the other man on video ... and she still denied it.

You could use more than a little 'douchewad' right about now. 

You keep telling her that you love her and will remain devoted to her through thick and thin ... and that's exactly what she will put you through.

I would like you to seriously think about this; what exactly is it that she would need to do or not do in order for you to say "It's over." ?

You have no boundaries. There are no consequences. You just keep offering, love, support, and mild annoyance at every red flag that comes down the pike.

I fully understand NOT wanting to believe that your spouse could betray you, but please ... don't be that naive.

This isn't something that happened ... this is something that's still happening.


----------



## misticli (Oct 28, 2011)

Deejo said:


> She ISN'T telling you the truth, bud. They never, ever do. We had a guy here catch his wife and the other man on video ... and she still denied it.
> 
> You could use more than a little 'douchewad' right about now.
> 
> ...



I read the whole thread and I so agree, to be blunt you need to be a man and put her in her place or leave. You are all about supporting her, but first you need to respect yourself enough to let her know this is unacceptable. 

Despite what women say, they do not want a emotional man who will give into their every whim. They want a man who will put them in their place when they need it. If she had sex with another man right in front of you would you tell her it was okay and forgive her?


----------



## Laba (Nov 12, 2011)

She is taking you for granted thats all there is.... That's why there is no sex, no affection etc.... when she realizes you are ready to go - you will see different side. I hate to compare humans to dogs but if we enable,accept certain behavior - it will continue. Right now it's a one way street - she is giving you glim of hope just enough to keep you hanging but not an inch further...Sorry for saying this but I simply don't believe you will see any drastic results without drastic actions.


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

It's been a while since I've posted her. I just wanted to give an update. I may be backtracking a bit, but yeah I finally dug it out of her. She claims she only kissed the guy, but I'll never know for sure. She did also admit to talking to about a half a dozen guys. I forgave her and told her I still wanted to be with her.. she cried alot etc. It's been about a year since that conversation.. since then she's quit partying with her sister, and she's deep into nursing school but our marriage is still just stagnant. I've had sex maybe 3 times this entire year, and that was me having to ask straight up. We don't fight a lot, but we don't talk about anything either. She talks to me about school, our son, and what chores I haven't done. We don't laugh, we don't joke.. nothing. She knows that I want the marriage to work (or did) but she says that she still holds a lot of resentment towards all of the things I like to do. We had a long conversation about 2 weeks ago about the state of our marriage, and we both agreed it was pretty much not a marriage at this point. I told her I wanted to try to work on things but without actually coming out and saying it, it seems like she's done.. she just doesn't want to be the one to say it. She said during the conversation that she hates all my hobbies, hates everything I do, and she feels bad because of that.. because she shouldn't hate those things that much.. but she does. It's all really petty stuff too.. dislike for hobbies. I'm a big nerd, and she's not. I just don't know if we have anything in common anymore except for our son. 

She's all about reality, and working a regular job, and just coming home every day and watching tv, and going to bed.. and doing it all over again. I like to live.. I like to have hobbies, and go out with friends. I'm an indie film maker, actor, writer, musician etc. I'm good at those things, and they are my passion. I feel like I have to prance around her to do any of those things. When we had the conversation I still was really adamant about working things out, but I can't do it alone.. and I just don't see it happening. We rarely spoke all weekend. If we did, it was to tell me to do something. She didn't get me anything for my birthday last week, or even tell me happy father's day. We've been together for 13 years. I don't know how we lasted this long. I still love her, but the person I married is gone as far as I can tell. 

I didn't really understand any of this til this week, and people around me keep saying. Dude, you have to do what makes you happy. It's not fair to be miserable all the time. I keep holding on to this because its been such a big part of my life. She's all I've ever known. I've been with her since high school, so its hard to let go that easily. She told me that she sees me around some of my actress friends, and she said "You should be with someone like that". "I see you with those girls, and you look so happy because they are into all the things you are into.. and I'm just not.. and I don't know if I'll ever be." "I feel bad because it doesn't bother me to see you with them.. it's like I don't care." 

I refused to listen to her at first, but as the days pass.. I wonder if she's right? Maybe we just tried to hold on to this thing for too long and we need something fresh in our lives? I have people tell me all the time... "you can do better", "you deserve better", "go find someone who shares your passions because she obviously doesn't". I'm never going to be a hum drum person who just wants the status quo.. that's boring. She has no hobbies. She will blame that on me and that she always spent all her time following me around.. but I never forced her to do that. 

So now I've sort of taken a, "I'm going to stay married until this ship sinks" status and I'm doing what I want. If she doesn't want to act married, I've more or less stopped trying to be her husband. Maybe that's the wrong way to go, but nothing I've tried has worked over the past two years, and instead of working on our issues.. she enrolled herself into the most stressful schooling possible. She keeps telling me to wait til she finishes school. Love can't wait now. I need affection, I need attention. I want to give it back just as much as I want to receive it. It's not something I can just do without.

Now, I'm in another predicament.. and this is totally my fault and I take all responsibility for it. Because I'm getting no attention at home.. the tables have sort of turned. Another female has taken a liking to me, and I like it. She's an actress, and she's goofy like me. She doesn't judge, and she's respectful of the things I like to do. We talk for hours every day. I feel bad about it, but I mean.. I need that from somewhere. I'm always happy when I'm talking to her.. She's happy when she talks to me. There's one major problem though.. she too.. is married. I'm not sure why she's talking to me like this, or what her situation at home is. Part of me sort of hopes their marriage falls apart too (I know that's terrible to say.. but.. if she's talking to me.. there's got to be problems right?)

I dunno, I just glow when I'm around her. I feel like I'm in high school again. I know the newness will wear off, but we actually have things in common to keep things fresh. But, alas she's married and I can't do much about that. However, talking to her has made me feel like.. there is someone out there who is meant for me.. maybe its her, maybe it isn't. Maybe it's still my wife.. but I can't wait around forever trying to find out. I just want to be happy with my life. I'm going to be hanging out with my new friend a few times over the next month, we're already past a point where it's not friends anymore.. but I haven't had sex with her or anything. I know, I know.. I'm just as guilty.. and she's just as guilty.. etc. I dunno, it just feels right. What do you do in this situation? 

My life is a wreck right now.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

randomguy1 said:


> I feel bad about it, but I mean.. I need that from somewhere.


Rationalization. You do need it from somewhere. But not from a married woman.



> .. if she's talking to me.. there's got to be problems right?)


Rationalization. Some women in good marriages get caught up in affairs a little at a time. And it sounds like that's how this started. However, even if her marriage is bad, your interference won't give it any chance to improve. Her family deserves the chance for her to recommit to her marriage.



> I dunno, it just feels right.


Rationalization. Something feeling right doesn't mean it IS right. Locking your kids in a closet so you can do heroin feels right. It feels amazing. But it's wrong.



> What do you do in this situation?


Either remain married to your wife, and faithful, or divorce your wife and date single women.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP:
I have read the entire thread you started 2 years ago. My God, your wife sounds absolutely HORRIBLE. One of the worst I've read about on this site. I'm not kidding.....a seriously narcissistic individual that you need to get away from as quickly as you can. Understand the divorce laws in your state, consult with a lawyer, get the necessary paperwork ready and drop it on her out of the blue. She sounds conniving enough to beat you to the punch, otherwise. 

I don't see anything good happening to you with her....I think the longer you're with her the more likely you are to be further hurt and humiliated, and financially crippled as well. She's commited adultery (you don't need any additional proof to convince yourself of that.....do you, really?), maybe even continuing in it, while at the same time ceasing to have sex with you. That shouldn't feel 'upset', or 'sad', or disappointed -- you should feel a full blown contempt for her! outrage... a sincere, real anger! 

see if you can get her student and related debt put in her name, so that you, her ex husband, do not have to pay for her new career! I hope you can work that out legally, it might be too late. and plan how to put yourself in the best position possible vis-a-vis child custody, of course.

I really think you need to act on this. forget the other woman for now, avoid becoming the moral fraud that your wife is, concentrate on getting out of this marriage ASAP!


----------



## randomguy1 (Mar 28, 2011)

So I worked July 4th. I get up Saturday, and start working on an editing project. I was bored out of my mind so I couldn't focus on that. She studied for a little while and then started watching TV (Twilight). We haven't spoken about anything all week but her school, and a few random things here and there. She usually reminds me of chores I need to do. We don't laugh, we don't joke.. nothing. I'm a really goofy, dorky guy who is into all sorts of stuff that we could potentially talk about, but her? Nothing.. she has no interests. She likes to dance (at bars, without me), gossip (with her sister), and watch TV. She goes to bed at 7:30-8:30 every night. Granted she's in nursing school, but call me crazy.. but getting into one of the most stressful college degrees when your marriage is already on the rocks.. seems like a terrible idea.

Today I was in a sour mood because I was bored. I knew I was in a mood, but I also knew why. Nobody can deal with this and not have a bad day or 100. I just stayed in here and worked on my editing. My son kept bugging me to do stuff, and that was grating on me too. I just wanted to get out and do something.

I suggested something, and she told me it got on her nerves that I complain i'm bored with so many house chores to do. I said, I'm not doing any of that today, I want to do something fun. She feels that I should not be allowed to do anything fun or that I want to do until everything else is done. The problem with that? House issues and cleaning is an never changing thing.. you can't "finish". You merely just choose when to do it vs. everything else. I don't choose today. I had to work the 4th, so this was my day off. So then she accused me of snapping at her, even though we've barely even spoken.

So I took my son to chuck e cheese. I invited her, but she declined.. saying she had just had her bath.. /sigh. She probably didn't move from the couch. I got home and she was in bed. She threatened to leave twice before i left to go to chuck e cheese. I don't know if she's still talking to anybody else, but part of me doesn't even care. I want to be with someone who appreciates me for me, and shares everything with me.. and doesn't hate everything I do.


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Show her this thread

the woodchuck....


----------

