# I finally did it....



## ariel_angel77

I did it. I told him to leave. We are no longer together. I can't believe I actually gained the courage to do it, but I somehow did. I have to admit that I got the help of a friend who is going through the same thing. Actually, all of my friends and family had told me I should leave him by this point.

I feel very hurt and relieved at the same time. He was really upset and left his ring at the house. He said we are not on good terms. 

Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know I finally did it.


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## happy as a clam

Way to go Ariel! Finally.

I'm rooting for you. Be strong 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

I know that was a very difficult thing for you to do. And a big first step. You did the right thing.


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## ariel_angel77

Thank you so much for the support.

Oh, forgot to mention. The thing that pushed me to end it today was that I came home at 3pm (he watches 12 month old baby while I'm at school) and DD was screaming. I found out that he had not fed her since 8 a.m. earlier that morning. I was so furious. He will NOT neglect her.


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## HappyGilmore

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you so much for the support.
> 
> Oh, forgot to mention. The thing that pushed me to end it today was that I came home at 3pm (he watches 12 month old baby while I'm at school) and DD was screaming. I found out that he had not fed her since 8 a.m. earlier that morning. I was so furious. He will NOT neglect her.


You are fully justified, ariel. I will be thinking about you. I've read your story through your posts, and my heart goes out to you.


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## Wolf1974

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you so much for the support.
> 
> Oh, forgot to mention. The thing that pushed me to end it today was that I came home at 3pm (he watches 12 month old baby while I'm at school) and DD was screaming. I found out that he had not fed her since 8 a.m. earlier that morning. I was so furious. He will NOT neglect her.


Wow I don't know your whole story but this alone makes me want to slap him. I hope you find happiness and a responsible man


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## happy as a clam

It's gonna get a little bumpy. So come here often, tell us what's going on, and let us help you see it through...


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## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> I did it. I told him to leave. We are no longer together. I can't believe I actually gained the courage to do it, but I somehow did. I have to admit that I got the help of a friend who is going through the same thing. Actually, all of my friends and family had told me I should leave him by this point.
> 
> I feel very hurt and relieved at the same time. He was really upset and left his ring at the house. *He said we are not on good terms. *
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know I finally did it.


Ya think?

Hang in there. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

Have in mind what you will do if/when he comes back begging you to take him back. I'd be surprised if he did not do this.


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## frusdil

Good girl, you deserve much better than this, no one should have to live the way you were.

This is absolutely disgusting and unforgivable, I would be furious too!!



ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you so much for the support.
> 
> Oh, forgot to mention. The thing that pushed me to end it today was that I came home at 3pm (he watches 12 month old baby while I'm at school) and DD was screaming. I found out that he had not fed her since 8 a.m. earlier that morning. I was so furious. He will NOT neglect her.


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## thatbpguy

I know how hard it can be, I really do. But you have to keep your eye on the mid term and long term and not just the short term.


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## Blossom Leigh

Omg.. I dont know your whole story, but that one episode is horrendous. So sorry!!!!



Hey.. and you're a Bama girl... Me too


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## cbnero

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you so much for the support.
> 
> Oh, forgot to mention. The thing that pushed me to end it today was that I came home at 3pm (he watches 12 month old baby while I'm at school) and DD was screaming. I found out that he had not fed her since 8 a.m. earlier that morning. I was so furious. He will NOT neglect her.


W.t.f.

For once I'm speechless. That makes me feel ill reading it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## commonsenseisn't

Liberating isn't it. Now stay the course and see it through. 

Proper response to "we're not on good terms" is "we weren't anyway, no loss"


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## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> Oh, forgot to mention. The thing that pushed me to end it today was that I came home at 3pm (he watches 12 month old baby while I'm at school) and DD was screaming. I found out that he had not fed her since 8 a.m. earlier that morning. I was so furious. He will NOT neglect her.


Just curious... 

Did your baby get breakfast before you left for school?

Did he just leave her in dirty diapers that whole time as well?

Where was she all that time? Was she in her crib? playpen? wondering the house unsupervised?


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## ariel_angel77

EleGirl said:


> Just curious...
> 
> Did your baby get breakfast before you left for school?
> 
> Did he just leave her in dirty diapers that whole time as well?
> 
> Where was she all that time? Was she in her crib? playpen? wondering the house unsupervised?


Yes, I'm the one who fed her breakfast before I went to school. She looked like she had been changed. And he usually lets her crawl around and play in the living room.


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## ariel_angel77

Yeah, you were right, EleGirl. Today he came over to get DD and he called me babe, tried to hold my hand, and tried to hug me romantically, along with telling me he loved me several times. I refused all, but I don't know what to do so that he won't do it anymore.

Also, I wrote a thread about him getting super defensive about a girl he was friends with, opened up my computer and his FB popped up from when he was here, saw messages between him and her. He told her that he was at his mom's and she said "sounds fun" and he was like "no, not in this circumstance" she asked "why??" and was super concerned. He told her to text him. It's clear something happened.

Next time I'll immediately log off when his Facebook pops up, but I'm just appalled at that.


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## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> Yeah, you were right, EleGirl. Today he came over to get DD and he called me babe, tried to hold my hand, and tried to hug me romantically, along with telling me he loved me several times. I refused all, but I don't know what to do so that he won't do it anymore.
> 
> Also, I wrote a thread about him getting super defensive about a girl he was friends with, opened up my computer and his FB popped up from when he was here, saw messages between him and her. He told her that he was at his mom's and she said "sounds fun" and he was like "no, not in this circumstance" she asked "why??" and was super concerned. He told her to text him. It's clear something happened.
> 
> Next time I'll immediately log off when his Facebook pops up, but I'm just appalled at that.


Did you get a screen capture of the Facebook messages? Evidence is a good thing as it's something that he cannot deny.

So he's been cheating. That's pretty clear.

What do you mean next time you will log off immediately. How will there be a next time?


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## 3Xnocharm

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you so much for the support.
> 
> Oh, forgot to mention. The thing that pushed me to end it today was that I came home at 3pm (he watches 12 month old baby while I'm at school) and DD was screaming. I found out that he had not fed her since 8 a.m. earlier that morning. I was so furious. He will NOT neglect her.


100% unacceptable!  Good for you!


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## ariel_angel77

EleGirl said:


> Did you get a screen capture of the Facebook messages? Evidence is a good thing as it's something that he cannot deny.
> 
> So he's been cheating. That's pretty clear.
> 
> What do you mean next time you will log off immediately. How will there be a next time?


No, I didn't think anything about getting a screenshot. & I meant if he uses my computer when he's here again and leaves his FB up.


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## frusdil

ariel_angel77 said:


> No, I didn't think anything about getting a screenshot. & I meant if he uses my computer when he's here again and leaves his FB up.


You two are now separated. He has no business using anything of yours anymore. He lost that right when he treated you and your daughter like garbage.

When he tries to hug you etc. push him away and tell him to stop. Only discuss the baby and legal things with him. Nothing personal. Your life is now none of his business.


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## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> No, I didn't think anything about getting a screenshot. & I meant if he uses my computer when he's here again and leaves his FB up.


I agree with the others.. he does not get to use your computer or anything in your place.

Send him an email or text telling him that he needs to understand that you are done. He is never again to try things like holding your hand, etc. He lost that privilege when he cheated on you and treated you badly.


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## GusPolinski

Wait, whoa... so he DID cheat? If so, let him use the computer ALL. HE. WANTS. 

Just make sure to install a keylogger first. :smthumbup:


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## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> Wait, whoa... so he DID cheat? If so, let him use the computer ALL. HE. WANTS.
> 
> Just make sure to install a keylogger first. :smthumbup:


Well that is that.


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## ariel_angel77

I am really upset. He's been coming to the apartment to watch DD so I can go to school (I have no choice on that, no money for babysitter), and he keeps staying at the house even though we are done. He is still trying to hold my hand, hug me romantically, keeps telling me he's still in love with me, kissing me on the cheek, making sexual comments about me, and doesn't respect at all that I don't want to be together and it is making me feel very uncomfortable. I make it clear I don't want to do any of that but he keeps trying. It's clear he's trying to manipulate me into believing he's changed. He even gave me this detailed apology. No, I'm not buying it, but I just want him gone.


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## JustTired

ariel_angel77 said:


> I am really upset. He's been coming to the apartment to watch DD so I can go to school (I have no choice on that, no money for babysitter), and he keeps staying at the house even though we are done. He is still trying to hold my hand, hug me romantically, keeps telling me he's still in love with me, kissing me on the cheek, making sexual comments about me, and doesn't respect at all that I don't want to be together and it is making me feel very uncomfortable. I make it clear I don't want to do any of that but he keeps trying. It's clear he's trying to manipulate me into believing he's changed. He even gave me this detailed apology. No, I'm not buying it, but I just want him gone.


You need to stop depending on him entirely. If you can't afford day care go to your state's social service department & apply for daycare vouchers. Need help with food? Apply for food stamps while you are there. But under NO circumstances are you to continue relying on your STB ex for *ANYTHING*. 

He is going to continue with the overt sexual advances because he can. He knows you still need him so that still leaves a little bit of hope for him. The minute you stop relying on him, then $hit is going to get real for him (& you). He's going to berate you, threaten you, then switch over to being loving. He will try anything to get you back whether it's intimidation or fake love. Like others have said: stay the course.

I know you go to school but you may also want to consider online classes. Do what you have to do to completely stop relying on the STB ex.


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## 3Xnocharm

At the very least, for now, stop letting him into the apartment. Take your DD to him. And tell him if he doesnt keep his hands off of you that you will call the police and file harassment charges. If you dont want someone in your personal space, then you are entitled to that.


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## EleGirl

I agree.

You need to find out what you can do for free or very low cost child care. I think most campuses have this.

Your H did not feed your daughter for hours the other day. But he's still watching her?


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## JustTired

EleGirl said:


> Your H did not feed your daughter for hours the other day. But he's still watching her?


This right here makes my blood boil. He would not be watching my child anymore, I bet this is not the first time he has done that.


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## Unique Username

There is probably a daycare on campus.
Ask friends and family to help...what about the friend who is going through the same thing - enlist her

Your local Dept of Family and Children can help with paying for daycare, food stamps and you should already have WIC and Your State's Medicaid for the baby. You can apply online, you can do the interview on the phone etc.

How is he able to watch the baby while you are at school? Doesn't he work?

When you are applying for day care help and foodstamps etc - they will also help you with how to go about getting Child Support.


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## GA HEART

Sweetie, I was a single mom in AL (granted it was years ago, but still.) There are TONS of programs out there. I paid $7.50 a week for my son to be in daycare. I had food stamps and evenm welfare for the 6 weeks I was out when my son was born. There are programs and you WILL qualify for them, even if you are still legally married. They are there to help a situation like this. Keep your head up, don't be too proud to accept help you qualify for, and stay your course. FWIW, I am no longer even close to qualifying for any program since I finished my degree and have a decently paying job. Things won't be easy, but they will be worth it. Good luck!


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## Unique Username

Oh and I forgot to mention that they also have legal aid at your university and in your town to help with the divorce, custody etc.

Shoot for you have Sole custody and he has visitation (parenting time) that maximizes your Child Support.

Each state is different - there are some states that grant emergency spousal support as well as Alimony/spousal.


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## bild-a-loco

Glad you took the first step in getting your life back - reading your posts, the guy sounds like a complete loser. You and your child will be much better off in the long run with that guy in the rear view mirror. 

All the best wishes, don't feel hurt or regretful, it sounds like you've done what's best for both you and the child. Good luck!


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## Unique Username

How to Apply for Alabama Food Stamps: 4 Steps (with Pictures)

Alabama Department of Human Resources - Food Assistance Division

Benefits.gov - Alabama Food Assistance Program (SNAP)

WIC - Home

Alabama Department of Human Resources - Subsidy Overview

https://insurealabama.adph.state.al.us

Alabama Department of Human Resources - Child Support Division

hth  UU


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## jorgegene

ariel_angel77 said:


> I am really upset. He's been coming to the apartment to watch DD so I can go to school (I have no choice on that, no money for babysitter), and he keeps staying at the house even though we are done. He is still trying to hold my hand, hug me romantically, keeps telling me he's still in love with me, kissing me on the cheek, making sexual comments about me, and doesn't respect at all that I don't want to be together and it is making me feel very uncomfortable. I make it clear I don't want to do any of that but he keeps trying. It's clear he's trying to manipulate me into believing he's changed. He even gave me this detailed apology. No, I'm not buying it, but I just want him gone.


A man who does this has very little self respect.
When a woman says she's done, and means it, a self respecting man is 'outta there!'


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## ariel_angel77

I really need some support right now. STBXH is coming at me full-force with trying to get back together still (during any contact we have) and my family is telling me all about how I need to give him another chance and stick around for him to change or for God to fix things. I tell them I don't ever want to go back to him but they just think that's the biggest mistake ever. Please help cause I'm losing my footing here.

Also thanks so much for the resources.


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## 3Xnocharm

ariel_angel77 said:


> I really need some support right now. STBXH is coming at me full-force with trying to get back together still (during any contact we have) and my family is telling me all about how I need to give him another chance and stick around for him to change or for God to fix things. I tell them I don't ever want to go back to him but they just think that's the biggest mistake ever. Please help cause I'm losing my footing here.
> 
> Also thanks so much for the resources.


Ariel, this is YOUR LIFE, not theirs. Stay on the path that is right FOR YOU. They either need to support you, or shut up. If they cannot support you, then you need to stop discussing this with them. 

Wishing you strength.


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## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> I really need some support right now. STBXH is coming at me full-force with trying to get back together still (during any contact we have) and my family is telling me all about how I need to give him another chance and stick around for him to change or for God to fix things. I tell them I don't ever want to go back to him but they just think that's the biggest mistake ever. Please help cause I'm losing my footing here.
> 
> Also thanks so much for the resources.


Take the pressure off by telling him you are not ready to make a decision. That for now you want to remain separated and be alone for a while. That you will let him know when you are ready to give your answer, until then you aren't discussing it. Then enforce the space you are asking for. You need room to breathe right now and don't apologize for asking for it. Put the entire family on alert that the topic is not up for discussion until you are stronger.


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## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> Take the pressure off by telling him you are not ready to make a decision. That for now you want to remain separated and be alone for a while. That you will let him know when you are ready to give your answer, until then you aren't discussing it. Then enforce the space you are asking for. You need room to breathe right now and don't apologize for asking for it. Put the entire family on alert that the topic is not up for discussion until you are stronger.


^This is solid advice, especially where your family is concerned. And, while I'm loathe to even mention this, it probably needs to be said...

Start putting together a comprehensive list of well-thought-out conditions that you expect to be met should you choose to reconcile w/ your husband. Start w/ very general things like accountability, honesty, transparency, helping w/ the baby, etc, and then go into detail w/ regard to each.

Now... I hate to say ^this, because doing so almost makes it sound as if I'm saying that you _should_ reconcile w/ your husband. _That's not what I'm saying at all._ I guess what I am saying is that it's a bit naive to think that you won't start to consider it a bit more seriously in the coming days or weeks, and that _you should be as prepared for it as possible._ IOW, don't rush headfirst into reconciliation w/o a solid list of expectations for your husband. *Have a plan.*

And by the way, did you ever get any answer on whether or not he was or is cheating?


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## 3Xnocharm

GusPolinski said:


> ^This is solid advice, especially where your family is concerned. And, while I'm loathe to even mention this, it probably needs to be said...
> 
> Start putting together a comprehensive list of well-thought-out conditions that you expect to be met should you choose to reconcile w/ your husband. Start w/ very general things like accountability, honesty, transparency, helping w/ the baby, etc, and then go into detail w/ regard to each.
> 
> Now... I hate to say ^this, because doing so almost makes it sound as if I'm saying that you _should_ reconcile w/ your husband. _That's not what I'm saying at all._ I guess what I am saying is that it's a bit naive to think that you won't start to consider it a bit more seriously in the coming days or weeks, and that _you should be as prepared for it as possible._ IOW, don't rush headfirst into reconciliation w/o a solid list of expectations for your husband. *Have a plan.*
> 
> And by the way, did you ever get any answer on whether or not he was or is cheating?


I think telling him these things would be a BAD idea. She does not WANT to R, so why put this false sense of it into his head? I dont think he really loves her anyway, he has lost control over her and he doesnt like it. She should tell him in no uncertain terms that it is OVER and seek legal measures if her boundaries are not respected. And the family needs to stay out of it if they are not supportive of her.


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## GusPolinski

3Xnocharm said:


> *I think telling him these things would be a BAD idea.* She does not WANT to R, so why put this false sense of it into his head? I dont think he really loves her anyway, he has lost control over her and he doesnt like it. She should tell him in no uncertain terms that it is OVER and seek legal measures if her boundaries are not respected. And the family needs to stay out of it if they are not supportive of her.


No no no no no... _I didn't say that she should give him the list._ Right now the list is for Ariel, and Ariel alone.

Sorry, should've made that a bit more clear.


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## Blossom Leigh

Gus said to possess the plan... not necessarily reveal it.

It certainly will help her develop what she finds acceptable going forward no matter who chooses to partner with her in life.


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## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> Next time I'll immediately log off when his Facebook pops up, but I'm just appalled at that.


Shouldn't be an issue, since you kicked him out. Right?


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## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> I am really upset. He's been coming to the apartment to watch DD so I can go to school (I have no choice on that, no money for babysitter), and he keeps staying at the house even though we are done. He is still trying to hold my hand, hug me romantically, keeps telling me he's still in love with me, kissing me on the cheek, making sexual comments about me, and doesn't respect at all that I don't want to be together and it is making me feel very uncomfortable. I make it clear I don't want to do any of that but he keeps trying. It's clear he's trying to manipulate me into believing he's changed. He even gave me this detailed apology. No, I'm not buying it, but I just want him gone.


Can you ask someone to come stay with you for a few weeks, for free?


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## turnera

Ariel, you KNOW he needs to go. At least for the next 6 months to a year, so he can learn that you will be respected. Have you gone to your county agencies to see what legal/financial/food help you can get? Have you asked your school?

Tell your family to ****** off if they aren't going to support YOU. Yes, you heard me. Tell your family to leave you alone if they won't accept your wishes. Time to grow into the adult you need to be.


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## turnera

One important thing to remember is this:

If you let him come back NOW, guess what you just did? You taught him that you are WEAK, that you won't stand up for yourself, that you CAN BE BULLIED. 

And once he knows that, HE WILL CONTINUE. And it will only get WORSE.

Have you read _Why Does He Do That?_ yet? Time to read it or re-read it. Arm yourself with knowledge that you don't have to take his manipulation. For example, 'we are not on good terms now' is straight out of the book manipulation. YOU kick HIM out, and HE dares to tell you that HE feels you're not on good terms? There's no reason to say that to you other than to put FEAR into you. Ignore it all.


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## ariel_angel77

Thank you everyone. Just to make it clear, no I do not ever want to be with him now or anytime in the future. Gus I want to make that list for myself, and I have--but I don't want to fool myself when I know I never want to get back together. At the same time I don't want to make a huge mistake of divorcing when that wasn't what needed to happen. I'm just majorly conflicted between knowing I don't want to be with him and fear that divorce would ruin my life or something.

I don't think he is cheating, I don't really have a way of knowing unfortunately. The phone bill won't be ready til next month for me to view.


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## JustTired

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you everyone. Just to make it clear, no I do not ever want to be with him now or anytime in the future. Gus I want to make that list for myself, and I have--but I don't want to fool myself when I know I never want to get back together. At the same time I don't want to make a huge mistake of divorcing when that wasn't what needed to happen. I'm just majorly conflicted between knowing I don't want to be with him and fear that divorce would ruin my life or something.
> 
> I don't think he is cheating, I don't really have a way of knowing unfortunately. The phone bill won't be ready til next month for me to view.


How will divorce ruin your life vs. being separated for the rest of your life? You say you don't ever want to be with him again, why wouldn't you divorce then?


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## Blossom Leigh

Take your time... Focus on creating that calm space for you and your child. Envision it then implement it. It will take a bit of time to get it right. You will know you have it right when both you and your daughter are calm. Whoever doesn't support the calm, can stay away until they learn to support it.


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## GusPolinski

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you everyone. Just to make it clear, no I do not ever want to be with him now or anytime in the future. *Gus I want to make that list for myself, and I have*--but I don't want to fool myself when I know I never want to get back together. At the same time I don't want to make a huge mistake of divorcing when that wasn't what needed to happen. I'm just majorly conflicted between knowing I don't want to be with him and fear that divorce would ruin my life or something.


Sounds like you're moving toward a very positive point-of-view. That's great!

And remember... even if you never give the list to him, it's not really for him anyway -- it's for you. Use it in your _next_ relationship! 

As far as the uncertainty goes, that's understandable. You're both young, and you have a young child. Additionally, women tend to mature a bit quicker than men, especially once children are thrown into the mix. That's always been my observation, anyway.

Remind us... how old is your husband?



ariel_angel77 said:


> I don't think he is cheating, I don't really have a way of knowing unfortunately. The phone bill won't be ready til next month for me to view.


What kind of phone did you say he was using these days?

Where has he been staying? Sorry if you already mentioned that.


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## Openminded

This is not your parents' decision to make. I assume they don't believe in divorce except in cases of infidelity. When they bring it up, remind them nicely (or not) that you're an adult and make your own decisions and you expect them to accept that. 

And divorce doesn't ruin your life. I realize with your religious background that divorce is not looked on positively but it certainly doesn't ruin your life. Yes, it will be harder for you now than it was before you married him and had a child but plenty of women face that and succeed. You will too.


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## Garrett

Please tell me how you mustered up the courage to move on? I can't and I am tearing myself apart.

Literally.


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## ariel_angel77

GusPolinski said:


> Sounds like you're moving toward a very positive point-of-view. That's great!
> 
> And remember... even if you never give the list to him, it's not really for him anyway -- it's for you. Use it in your _next_ relationship!
> 
> As far as the uncertainty goes, that's understandable. You're both young, and you have a young child. Additionally, women tend to mature a bit quicker than men, especially once children are thrown into the mix. That's always been my observation, anyway.
> 
> Remind us... how old is your husband?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of phone did you say he was using these days?
> 
> Where has he been staying? Sorry if you already mentioned that.


He is 21. He uses one of those old flip phones from Walmart Family Mobile. He threw his other phone at my door yesterday so it broke.


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## ariel_angel77

Garrett said:


> Please tell me how you mustered up the courage to move on? I can't and I am tearing myself apart.
> 
> Literally.


I just did it. I just said to him that I don't want to be together and I want him to leave, and I kicked him out. I felt SO much better after I did it. It was like I saw the relationship in a whole new light after I kicked him out, one in which I certainly didn't need it ever again. I felt very lonely, but that's better than being abused.


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## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> He is 21. He uses one of those old flip phones from Walmart Family Mobile. He threw his other phone at my door yesterday so it broke.


Ahh, poor baby. His own actions cause himself his own problems. Maybe he'll learn someday.

I didn't realize you were so young. You've got your whole life ahead of you; keep moving forward. I always tell people not to get married til at least age 25, so you have time to age up and mature and get the kinks out, lol. And I tell people to date someone at LEAST two years before marrying, so you have time to see the good and the bad and see if you can - or he can - handle the bad.


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## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> He is 21. He uses one of those old flip phones from Walmart Family Mobile. He threw his other phone at my door yesterday so it broke.


Why did he throw it?


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## ariel_angel77

Blossom Leigh said:


> Why did he throw it?


Okay...so after I left him, I went to a friend's house. I just wanted someone to talk to. One thing led to another. (No, nothing had ever happened with this friend before ever.) I figured, I never intended to be with STBXH ever again, so I didn't think it was a big deal. We got together a few times before deciding to end it until I'm not separated anymore (my family found out and threw a fit about it). STBXH asked me if I'm seeing someone else. I was honest and told him I was, but we ended it today for now. He hit my wall (and left a hold in it) and threw his phone against my door. I seriously was so scared I had to shakenly ask him not to hit me. I apologized for hurting him though. Now he's been using this to try to guilt me into getting back with him...kinda like, "I'm willing to forgive this, so because of that, you should give me another chance." He's been on his knees begging me for another chance. This situation is so messy. Ugh.

Anyway, don't worry..I know it's too soon and I'm not going to be dating anyone until the divorce is final. And I NEVER cheated on STBXH (I was honest about what I did after we split up.)


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## turnera

Actually, you DID cheat on him unless you told him BEFOREhand that you were going to go hook up with another guy. I think you might be too young to be married, period.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Now we understand where your courage came from. 

You had someone else waiting for you.


----------



## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> Okay...so after I left him, I went to a friend's house. I just wanted someone to talk to. One thing led to another.


So...you moved out and in the same hour...you went to a guy's house? :scratchhead:


----------



## PBear

Ok. I started dating shortly after separating from my wife, like in the first couple of weeks. And I suspect that if my STBXW would have found out at that time, she would have thought it had started before I left, and she would have considered it cheating. Even if in my mind, the marriage is all over. I also told my wife that I wanted out of the marriage 3 months before that, but stayed only due to holidays and a surgery my wife was having. I was sleeping in a separate bedroom for that time as well. 

If nothing else, be a lot more discrete about it, for crying out loud. It will make your separation/divorce much less difficult if you can stay on good terms with your STBX. Heck, I waited for years (literally) before any of my family even knew I was dating. Much less my STBX. 

On the other hand, I'm still with my GF/SO from that time, and she's moving in this weekend. The kids know her and are accepting the situation. The STBX knows of her, and isn't causing me any grief about it. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> Okay...so after I left him, I went to a friend's house. I just wanted someone to talk to. One thing led to another. (No, nothing had ever happened with this friend before ever.) I figured, I never intended to be with STBXH ever again, so I didn't think it was a big deal. We got together a few times before deciding to end it until I'm not separated anymore (my family found out and threw a fit about it). STBXH asked me if I'm seeing someone else. I was honest and told him I was, but we ended it today for now. He hit my wall (and left a hold in it) and threw his phone against my door. I seriously was so scared I had to shakenly ask him not to hit me. I apologized for hurting him though. Now he's been using this to try to guilt me into getting back with him...kinda like, "I'm willing to forgive this, so because of that, you should give me another chance." He's been on his knees begging me for another chance. This situation is so messy. Ugh.
> 
> Anyway, don't worry..I know it's too soon and I'm not going to be dating anyone until the divorce is final. And I NEVER cheated on STBXH (I was honest about what I did after we split up.)



Oh Baby Girl... I know how it feels to not have courage to leave on my own, but be so miserable that I allow someone to comfort me. I too was in my 20's. The best favor you can do yourself is to realize this was cheating. There is no way around that. It was emotional before you separated and physical during separation. Accept that. Also, accept that this was a poor coping choice and there were other options. The quicker you are honest about it the quicker you will learn and heal. This will take guts and integrity to face it head on and accept responsibility for this choice.

Was it this friend? 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...aving-these-thoughts-happily-married-but.html


----------



## ariel_angel77

Well, guess my reputation with this place is now tarnished and I won't be able to get advice without people assuming I'm a cheating liar. I did not lie when I said nothing happened before the separation, but you guys can think all the horrible things about me that you want (this response isn't directed at blossom and P bear). I know you guys hate all the WS and the stories of betrayal, and I do too. However, we established that we didn't need to be monogamous anymore, and he was telling me a lot of the time that he didn't want to be together (he would switch between the extremes). I don't see how it's cheating when I had left him and it was clearly over. But I'm glad the discussion has changed to how much of a filthy cheater I am now. Thanks. I was really enjoying the help and advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ariel_angel77

And blossom, no, it wasn't that friend. Nothing had ever happened between is before the separation. And thank you P Bear for being understanding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

You and your husband agreed to break monogamy?


----------



## turnera

I didn't call you anything, I don't think you're lying to anyone but yourself, and it doesn't change the advice I will continue to give you, assuming you don't just cut and run. You agreed to not pursue it, and that's good enough for me. Now just move forward with your life.


----------



## Openminded

It's your apartment, right? So why did you need to leave? 

Now you see why we say males and females usually can't be friends without the likelihood of sex factoring into the relationship at some point. 

Yes, that episode complicated your situation. Don't see him or talk to him again until you're divorced. And be prepared for the possibility of your husband smearing your reputation -- not to anonymous people on an Internet forum -- to people you know in real life once he realizes you won't R.


----------



## doubletrouble

ariel_angel77 said:


> Okay...so after I left him, I went to a friend's house. I just wanted someone to talk to. One thing led to another. (No, nothing had ever happened with this friend before ever.) I figured, I never intended to be with STBXH ever again, so I didn't think it was a big deal. We got together a few times before deciding to end it until I'm not separated anymore (my family found out and threw a fit about it). STBXH asked me if I'm seeing someone else. I was honest and told him I was, but we ended it today for now. He hit my wall (and left a hold in it) and threw his phone against my door. I seriously was so scared I had to shakenly ask him not to hit me. I apologized for hurting him though.* Now he's been using this to try to guilt me into getting back with him...kinda like, "I'm willing to forgive this, so because of that, you should give me another chance."* He's been on his knees begging me for another chance. This situation is so messy. Ugh.
> 
> Anyway, don't worry..I know it's too soon and I'm not going to be dating anyone until the divorce is final. And I NEVER cheated on STBXH (I was honest about what I did after we split up.)


No, he won't forgive you. He'll use it as another control panel for your life. 

Ariel, I remember another thread you had, and am glad you're moving in this direction. But whatever he says, isn't going to result in a change in actions. 

And actions speak so loud that nobody can hear what you're saying.


----------



## doubletrouble

ariel_angel77 said:


> Well, guess my reputation with this place is now tarnished and I won't be able to get advice without people assuming I'm a cheating liar. I did not lie when I said nothing happened before the separation, but you guys can think all the horrible things about me that you want (this response isn't directed at blossom and P bear). I know you guys hate all the WS and the stories of betrayal, and I do too. However, we established that we didn't need to be monogamous anymore, and he was telling me a lot of the time that he didn't want to be together (he would switch between the extremes). I don't see how it's cheating when I had left him and it was clearly over. But I'm glad the discussion has changed to how much of a filthy cheater I am now. Thanks. I was really enjoying the help and advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No--- look dear girl, this is complicated stuff, and emotions run high. You are vulnerable, and your friend should have seen that. In fact, I believe he did. Might not be that great a friend. I've been in that exact position in the past, and we managed to keep our clothes on. Then again, I'm twice your age (plus some...). 

I, for one, won't judge you by this, and I don't see where others took the "big bats" to you. Hang in there, and we'll hang with you. 

But break it off permanently with this "friend." He saw a weakness in you, in a time of need, and he took advantage of you. That's not a friend. A mature gentleman would have said, "I think you're hurting, and I know what this is leading to, but let's just sit down and talk instead." Maybe later on, after the smoke is cleared from this battle that's started, this guy could've been a friend. Now he's shown he simply isn't. 

You don't need another man binding you up right now. You need to learn who you are.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

doubletrouble said:


> No, he won't forgive you. He'll use it as another control panel for your life.


Yes, this exactly. This would just be something he would hold over your head and make you pay for for the rest of your life. I for one am not going to harsh you for this. Maybe it will help you stay gone, and that isnt a bad thing.


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## ariel_angel77

Blossom, yes, he told me I was free to be with who I wanted and I told him the same. It wasn't a reconciliation type of separation. Turnera, I wasn't really referring to you either in my post, just the people who were like "Oh, THAT'S why you left your husband" and assuming I was cheating on him before the separation. I do appreciate your advice. Open minded, I feel really bad to kick him out of the apartment until he gets his school money (any day now). He's been crying and begging me not to make him leave "his home" again. I'm a very soft hearted person and it's hard for me to be tough with someone. Also, yes, my friend and i are waiting until the divorce is final to do anything. That was his idea and I agreed. He was feeling guilty because of how it was affecting me and how it was driving a wedge between me & my family, and he said he doesn't want to be that guy. He said if we feel the same after the divorce, then we should resume the relationship. Double trouble, yes, I agree with your comments about how STBXH will use this against me for the rest of my life, and that turns me off. Anytime he tries to be romantic to win me back it just feels wrong and I just don't want to. I don't want to overall. I no longer desire him romantically at all. Thank you so much for your comments, 3X No Charm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

You do realize that in most cases, he's just as entitled to the marital home as you are?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33

Little too soon don't you think?


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## ariel_angel77

PBear said:


> You do realize that in most cases, he's just as entitled to the marital home as you are?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its my school apartment given to me by my college.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ariel_angel77

richie33 said:


> Little too soon don't you think?


Probably. I couldn't help how I felt, no matter how stupid it was, and we did end it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

ariel_angel77 said:


> Its my school apartment given to me by my college.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He's still entitled to live in the marital home until it's no longer the marital home. If he choses to. But unless he decides to fight it, no worries. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Soooo... What happened between the time he gave you permission to see anyone and that moment that would make him so mad he punched a hole in the wall and busted his phone?


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## ariel_angel77

Blossom Leigh said:


> Soooo... What happened between the time he gave you permission to see anyone and that moment that would make him so mad he punched a hole in the wall and busted his phone?


Nothing except he suddenly decided I was his once I did become involved with someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Where did he get that idea?

Help me understand how he flew into a rage.


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## ariel_angel77

Blossom Leigh said:


> Where did he get that idea?
> 
> Help me understand how he flew into a rage.


I don't understand either. He would go back & forth between not wanting me back & trying desperately to get me back. When I told him about what happened, he happened to be in the trying to win me back stage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> my friend and i are waiting until the divorce is final to do anything. That was his idea and I agreed. He was feeling guilty because of how it was affecting me and how it was driving a wedge between me & my family, and he said he doesn't want to be that guy. He said if we feel the same after the divorce, then we should resume the relationship. Double trouble, yes, I agree with your comments about how STBXH will use this against me for the rest of my life, and that turns me off. Anytime he tries to be romantic to win me back it just feels wrong and I just don't want to. I don't want to overall. I no longer desire him romantically at all. Thank you so much for your comments, 3X No Charm.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ariel, two things. First, he IS that guy. He's the guy who got horny and seduced a woman in need who was technically still married, SO still married that she had just been with her husband a mere hour or two previously. SO not attractive and SO not trustworthy. 

Second, you know better. You no longer desire your H romantically BECAUSE you now have a man waiting in the wings. Note I am NOT discussing who you should be with - and you know I never want you with your husband again, without him getting years of therapy. But the mere fact that you transferred your feelings directly onto another guy is the single worst thing you could have done. It muddies the waters, it keeps you from seeing your situation clearly. So I'll tell you what I tell EVERY person who does this (and you can go back and find me telling a good dozen or so people this) - if you won't agree to never see this guy again, you're no better than a cheater because he has now become part of the reason you're getting a divorce. And that makes it cheating, no matter in what order this all shook out. 

So, if you were to tell me you will never date this guy, I'll never bring it up again. But if you continue to posit that you're 'just waiting' for the divorce to be official, well, you know what that means.

And, again, to clarify, I am NOT telling you to pick your husband. He's got too many problems to be a good husband for anyone at this point. I just don't want you jumping from one pan to another. And from what you describe, your family's already aware of this, so that's just one more issue with any potential relationship with him.


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## EleGirl

Angel, another thing to consider about seeing other people while you are married.

In Alabama, divorce can be filed based on fault. Audltery is one of the very few acceptable reasons for an at fault divorce. Technically you have committed adultery. It can affect the outcome of the divorce.Your husband can now file based on that. Now you say he told you that it was ok for you to see others. But you cannot prove that. He your husband decides to get meaner than he already his he can file using adultery and name the other guy. So there would be a permanent record of it. I doubt you'd like that.

Luckily, you two don't have much in the way of assets and neither of you can file for alimony. But in a marriage that does not assets to split, in Alabama, adultery can be used as justification for a judge awarding less in the way of alimony and property settlement. It can also be used against you for child custody.

I have noticed on several occasions that you get very defensive and angry when people here on TAM are not your cheerleaders. You need to toughen up some and learn to take constructive criticism. We are all concerned about you here and only want to try to help you. So when someone says something that is not completely flattering of you... it's because sometimes we all need someone to tell us the truth.. not matter how much it might be hard to hear.

We all care about you and want to see you come out of this doing better than you have been. So please don't take what people are telling you as attacks. We are seriously trying to help you out.


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## ariel_angel77

Tunera, this guy has NOTHING to do with me not having romantic feelings for my husband. I felt this way about my husband long before that. They are completely unrelated. And he didn't take advantage of me. I kissed him. Yes I realize I should have waited and it was wrong at the time, but it happened and there's nothing I can do about that. I'm sorry you view me as a cheater. Everyone else does as well. EleGirl, thanks for pointing that out. I suppose it is out of my control at this point. I wouldn't think he would take our child away, though. I really hope not. And yes, I am a very sensitive person and cannot handle criticism ever since the abuse began, even my close family has noticed that about me. I'll try not to take it so hard. I just don't want everyone to start tearing me down rather than helping me because of that happening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> I don't understand either. He would go back & forth between not wanting me back & trying desperately to get me back. When I told him about what happened, he happened to be in the trying to win me back stage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



oh boy... You've got a mess on your hands at this point. How long were you and the "friend" talking before you showed up on his door step to talk face to face.


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## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> EleGirl, thanks for pointing that out. I suppose it is out of my control at this point. I wouldn't think he would take our child away, though. I really hope not.


I just thought it was a good idea for you to know that about he divorce laws where you live. Each state is different.

I doubt that your husband would file based on fault. For one thing it costs a lot to file based on fault because he'd have to have proof and there would be expensive trial hearings. I also doubt that he could get your child. But.. you need to be careful because people do really stupid stuff when in the middle of a divorce. Who knows what he might do. So you need to make sure that he cannot use stuff like this to punish you.

It would really suck if after all his mistreatment of you, he was able to drag you through the mud, even if it did not affect the divorce and custody outcome.



ariel_angel77 said:


> And yes, I am a very sensitive person and cannot handle criticism ever since the abuse began, even my close family has noticed that about me. I'll try not to take it so hard. I just don't want everyone to start tearing me down rather than helping me because of that happening.


No one here is going to stop helping you.


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## turnera

ariel, the only way to move forward and improve yourself is to be completely honest with yourself. So we are just trying to help you be accountable for your actions, so that you can move forward correctly. That is all. You're young, you made a mistake, we're bringing it to your attention so that you can feel the full force of how making bad choices makes us feel bad about ourselves - SO THAT WE LEARN. I think you have a much better understanding of what happened now than you did 6 hours ago, don't you? And that you'd be MUCH less likely to get into such a situation again, now that you know it would be looked down upon. It's how we learn. 

We're not here to judge you. You're doing that all by yourself. And given what you've been living with, you've been taught to be extra hard on yourself. The longer you're away from your husband, that will go away. Don't be so hard on yourself. 

But my feelings about you hooking up with this guy still stand. You are in NO CONDITION to date ANYONE, least of all a guy who'll have sex with a woman who just left her husband. Please steer clear of him. Get therapy. Spend some time on yourself WITHOUT having to have a guy 'pick' you. You'll never grow a better picker if you can't be alone without a guy.


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## Blossom Leigh

Girl.... Remember one thing.... The ground is level at the foot of the Cross. And though the "tough love" spoken to you may make you uncomfortable, it is said knowing, no one can cast a stone. Stand strong and choose to hear it anyway. You won't regret it. Between me, Turnera, Ele Girl lies a wealth of experience and wisdom. I am sure others as well will come along. Even so... The Cross trumps all. I know you know that. You will be ok. This wasnt the best move to make, but you will survive it.


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## memyselfandi

Way to go girl!! So proud of you as I've been there.

It's never easy..BUT if will make you feel whole again.

Good luck sweetie. And keep us posted!!


----------



## turnera

Yes, we haven't said it enough - we are REALLY proud of you for leaving your husband. Maybe he'll get his act together some day, probably not. But you needed to get out of that situation, so good job!


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## doubletrouble

turnera said:


> And, again, to clarify, I am NOT telling you to pick your husband. He's got too many problems to be a good husband for anyone at this point.* I just don't want you jumping from one pan to another.* And from what you describe, your family's already aware of this, so that's just one more issue with any potential relationship with him.


:iagree: This is the part I referred to as well. You need time to re-find yourself. Know who you are, know what you want in life, regardless of having a man in your life. Figure this out first. Take a couple of years to do it, because you have a lot to sort out. 

THEN you'll be clear, and truly know what you need and want in your life.


----------



## doubletrouble

ariel_angel77 said:


> Tunera, this guy has NOTHING to do with me not having romantic feelings for my husband. I felt this way about my husband long before that. They are completely unrelated. And he didn't take advantage of me. I kissed him. Yes I realize I should have waited and it was wrong at the time, but it happened and there's nothing I can do about that.* I'm sorry you view me as a cheater. Everyone else does as well.* EleGirl, thanks for pointing that out. I suppose it is out of my control at this point. I wouldn't think he would take our child away, though. I really hope not. And yes, I am a very sensitive person and cannot handle criticism ever since the abuse began, even my close family has noticed that about me. I'll try not to take it so hard. I just don't want everyone to start tearing me down rather than helping me because of that happening.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I already pointed out this isn't true. We're here to help. Just read these suggestions as comments based on our life experiences, and having seen a lot of other situations here on TAM. It's not criticism, per se (although some posters will do that), it's why you're here. To get peoples' input. I think most of the posters on this thread so far are truly trying to understand your situation and help you. I am.


----------



## doubletrouble

memyselfandi said:


> Way to go girl!! So proud of you as I've been there.
> 
> It's never easy..BUT if will make you feel whole again.
> 
> Good luck sweetie. And keep us posted!!





turnera said:


> Yes, we haven't said it enough - we are REALLY proud of you for leaving your husband. Maybe he'll get his act together some day, probably not. But you needed to get out of that situation, so good job!


:iagree:


----------



## ariel_angel77

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the help. Blossom, I've been friends with him since January, nothing ever happened between us until 2 weeks ago, though. Guys, I know I need time to work on myself & I will. I just had feelings for the guy. It wasn't a scheme to cheat or hurt STBXH or to not be lonely/get over him. It was just because I had feelings for him. It's not the right time though, and I know that. I really am sorry for those of you who I disappointed. I never meant to disappoint anyone. I wish this would have happened between me & him after the divorce, and if anything ever happens again with anyone, it will be at that time.

Again, I'm sorry everyone.

Also, to those of you who still want to help me, he's been trying to get me back & saying that he's changed already completely and that he would never hurt me again and if I give him a chance, he'll make me happy. He's been going at this hardcore for about 3 days now, and especially since I told him about what I did. It's been making me wonder if divorce is the wrong choice (I certainly wouldn't get back together for a long time either way, though.) Well, I found some messages between him & his brother's girlfriend. She asked why we split and he said "She wasn't happy." The girl was like, "Uh, is she ever?" and STBXH was like "No not really." Then she asked him if there was another reason & he said "Well, she likes to put all of our problems on me & say everything's my fault." Then he told the girl that he hadn't been happy in like 5 years since he was single.

Should I completely get rid of any possible R in my head right now?


----------



## turnera

> saying that he's changed already completely and that he would never hurt me again


Send this to him:


> How can abusers change?
> 
> According to author Lundy Bancroft, the following are some changes in your partner that could indicate they’re making progress in their recovery:
> 
> Admitting fully to what they have done
> Stopping excuses and blaming
> Making amends
> Accepting responsibility and recognizing that abuse is a choice
> Identifying patterns of controlling behavior they use
> Identifying the attitudes that drive their abuse
> *Accepting that overcoming abusiveness is a decades-long process — not declaring themselves “cured”*
> Not demanding credit for improvements they’ve made
> Not treating improvements as vouchers to be spent on occasional acts of abuse (ex. “I haven’t done anything like this in a long time, so it’s not a big deal)
> Developing respectful, kind, supportive behaviors
> Carrying their weight and sharing power
> Changing how they respond to their partner’s (or former partner’s) anger and grievances
> Changing how they act in heated conflicts
> Accepting the consequences of their actions (including not feeling sorry for themselves about the consequences, and not blaming their partner or children for them)


The National Domestic Violence Hotline | Is Change Possible In An Abuser?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

If you reconcile, what would be the reasons

If you divorce, what would be the reasons

Be ruthlessly honest because you do not want to be blameshifting to your H NOR do you want to enable poor behavior in him or yourself...


----------



## turnera

So you know, when I broke up with my abusive fiance, he was SHOCKED. Astounded. He never DREAMED I'd have the balls to leave him; hell, he never even saw I was unhappy.

But once I broke up with him (he worked across the street from me), he started showing up at my work every.single.day. Every day. He'd come in and tell me that he could no longer eat. He couldn't think. He couldn't go to work. He had to drop all his classes as he was just too upset to continue. He couldn't breathe. He might as well die (this from the most self-centered man I've ever met). His parents were worried about him (he knew that one would get to me). On and on, day after day. After about a month of this daily barrage, I broke down. I was the only girl in a store full of guys, and they just had enough and they blocked him from coming in (thank God!), so he could no longer harass me, and I could breathe.

You'd think he was serious, right? That he was really grieving, it was just too hard, he really got it.

Two months later, he was married.


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## Blossom Leigh

I will tell you Ariel... I was extremely concerned he put a hole in your wall... he was out of control and endangering you. It was psychological intimidation. Not good.


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## ariel_angel77

Reconcile: Because I don't want to be divorced.
Because I don't want to let God down.
Because I don't want my child to have divorced parents.
Because I don't want to if there had been a way to fix it.

Divorce: Because I haven't been happy with him for half of the marriage.
Because he abused me in ways that have completely affected/changed me.
Because I'm still super scared when I'm around him & I feel like he would kill me if he wanted--I don't feel safe with him.
Because he lied to me about who he was before and i don't trust that to happen again.
Because I have no romantic feelings or him anymore in the slightest & haven't in months
Because I can never go through that again.
Because the marriage itself is very unhealthy for me.
Because I don't want him to end up abusing my daughter or her watching him abuse me.
Because I know he doesn't really love me.
Because I can never, ever, ever trust him and I will always think he's lying to me--and he probably will be most of the time.
Because I don't trust the way he reacted to what I did.
Because he threw his phone at the wall the other day & hit my wall & I believe he will always continue to be violent like this.
Because he would rather him be happy & control me rather than me be happy.

That's all I can think of now on the divorce one. There are more in my head.


----------



## ariel_angel77

turnera said:


> So you know, when I broke up with my abusive fiance, he was SHOCKED. Astounded. He never DREAMED I'd have the balls to leave him; hell, he never even saw I was unhappy.
> 
> But once I broke up with him (he worked across the street from me), he started showing up at my work every.single.day. Every day. He'd come in and tell me that he could no longer eat. He couldn't think. He couldn't go to work. He had to drop all his classes as he was just too upset to continue. He couldn't breathe. He might as well die (this from the most self-centered man I've ever met). His parents were worried about him (he knew that one would get to me). On and on, day after day. After about a month of this daily barrage, I broke down. I was the only girl in a store full of guys, and they just had enough and they blocked him from coming in (thank God!), so he could no longer harass me, and I could breathe.
> 
> You'd think he was serious, right? That he was really grieving, it was just too hard, he really got it.
> 
> Two months later, he was married.


Thank you for that.


----------



## doubletrouble

ariel_angel77 said:


> I don't feel safe with him.


This is bolstered by your other points but to me this is the crux of the situation. 

You'll never sleep with both eyes shut, living with him.


----------



## ariel_angel77

Okay so, I looked online at the phone bill & found like a TON of messages between STBXH & his brother's girlfriend (who he had that conversation with I just told you guys about, talking bad about me) Well, they had 540 texts in the past week. A lot of these were literally going all hours of the night (yes, 10pm, 11pm, 12am, 1am, 2am, 3am, & 4am). there were SEVERAL. Now obviously if he had gotten with someone, that wouldn't have bothered me, but if he is trying to get me to hold off on the divorce but talking to her & lying about something that happened between them, then I need to know so I can file for D right away because it will be clear we can never fix it. 

Does this sound like a relationship between them? Again, it won't bother me if he did it, but it will bother me if he didn't tell me when I told him what I did, and I'm going to go ahead and file for D. I'd really appreciate the input. Thanks.


----------



## ariel_angel77

doubletrouble said:


> This is bolstered by your other points but to me this is the crux of the situation.
> 
> You'll never sleep with both eyes shut, living with him.


Yes..this is so true..


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ariel_angel77 said:


> Should I completely get rid of any possible R in my head right now?


YEP.



ariel_angel77 said:


> Reconcile: Because I don't want to be divorced.
> Because I don't want to let God down.
> Because I don't want my child to have divorced parents.
> Because I don't want to if there had been a way to fix it.
> 
> Divorce: Because I haven't been happy with him for half of the marriage.
> Because he abused me in ways that have completely affected/changed me.
> Because I'm still super scared when I'm around him & I feel like he would kill me if he wanted--I don't feel safe with him.
> Because he lied to me about who he was before and i don't trust that to happen again.
> Because I have no romantic feelings or him anymore in the slightest & haven't in months
> Because I can never go through that again.
> Because the marriage itself is very unhealthy for me.
> Because I don't want him to end up abusing my daughter or her watching him abuse me.
> Because I know he doesn't really love me.
> Because I can never, ever, ever trust him and I will always think he's lying to me--and he probably will be most of the time.
> Because I don't trust the way he reacted to what I did.
> Because he threw his phone at the wall the other day & hit my wall & I believe he will always continue to be violent like this.
> Because he would rather him be happy & control me rather than me be happy.
> 
> That's all I can think of now on the divorce one. There are more in my head.


Look at your lists...look how much longer one is than the other. There is your answer.


----------



## Almostrecovered

ariel_angel77 said:


> Because I don't want to let God down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because he abused me in ways that have completely affected/changed me.
> Because I'm still super scared when I'm around him & I feel like he would kill me if he wanted--I don't feel safe with him.
> Because I don't want him to end up abusing my daughter or her watching him abuse me.
> Because he threw his phone at the wall the other day & hit my wall & I believe he will always continue to be violent like this.
> Because he would rather him be happy & control me rather than me be happy.


Although I'm an athiest, if God does exist and cared about you then I'm fairly certain he would want you and your daughter to be safe and happy


----------



## Anonymous07

ariel_angel77 said:


> Okay so, I looked online at the phone bill & found like a TON of messages between STBXH & his brother's girlfriend (who he had that conversation with I just told you guys about, talking bad about me) Well, they had 540 texts in the past week. A lot of these were literally going all hours of the night (yes, 10pm, 11pm, 12am, 1am, 2am, 3am, & 4am). there were SEVERAL. Now obviously if he had gotten with someone, that wouldn't have bothered me, but if he is trying to get me to hold off on the divorce but talking to her & lying about something that happened between them, then I need to know so I can file for D right away because it will be clear we can never fix it.
> 
> Does this sound like a relationship between them? Again, it won't bother me if he did it, but it will bother me if he didn't tell me when I told him what I did, and I'm going to go ahead and file for D. I'd really appreciate the input. Thanks.


It doesn't matter and it's none of your business what your ex does. You need to file for the divorce because he is abusive and you need to stay away from him. Your relationship/marriage will never be fixed. He does not care about you and never has. You are better off without him.


----------



## ariel_angel77

Okay..so I'm going to file for D.

This is so weird. It's like knowing that it will never, never ever work out, and it's lost forever. Maybe that's a good thing. But it sure is a weird feeling. I mean, he was my first husband.


----------



## doubletrouble

ariel_angel77 said:


> Okay..so I'm going to file for D.
> 
> This is so weird. It's like knowing that it will never, never ever work out, and it's lost forever. Maybe that's a good thing. But it sure is a weird feeling. I mean, he was my first husband.


My wife #1 at one point started introducing me to people as her first husband. I should've gotten the hint back then. 

I used to tell people, if someone can steal her from me, he can have her. Someone did, and he got her. Poor bastard. 

You'll be better off in the long run. It's going to feel weird, like you almost solved the Rubic cube but now you have to undo it. But it can be done, and you can go on to simpler puzzles, with someone to help you rather than find ways to set you back.


----------



## PBear

Forgive me for being dense... But wasn't a significant factor in your decision the fact that he claimed to be a devout Christian, but later admitted that he never was (and wasn't acting like one now)? Or am I remembering the wrong person?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kylie84

PBear said:


> Forgive me for being dense... But wasn't a significant factor in your decision the fact that he claimed to be a devout Christian, but later admitted that he never was (and wasn't acting like one now)? Or am I remembering the wrong person?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Same person.

I have read all of your threads and am amazed you have hung onto this for as long as you have Ariel...
He and his whole family sound like sick unbalanced individuals who I'd want nowhere near my child.
Show him you mean business and finally file for D. And make sure you tell him to stay out of your apartment and away from you. If he doesn't get it then also get a restraining order on him.
Your safety is important but your daughter's even more so.


----------



## ariel_angel77

Yes, P Bear. I mainly married him because he was a Christian and we had the same morals/values. I found out throughout the marriage that he did not have the same morals/values as me. About a couple of months ago, he revealed that he is not a Christian and he posed as one so I would marry him. Now all of a sudden he's a Christian again. 

Kylie, thanks for the words of comfort. I am applying for jobs at my school so that I can save up money to hire a divorce lawyer (and I need one anyway). So, at that time I will file for divorce. I suppose the hardest thing about this is my baby. I feel so, so guilty for being the reason her parents won't be together. I would never want to hurt her in any way and so it kills me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

ariel_angel77 said:


> Yes, P Bear. I mainly married him because he was a Christian and we had the same morals/values. I found out throughout the marriage that he did not have the same morals/values as me. About a couple of months ago, he revealed that he is not a Christian and he posed as one so I would marry him. Now all of a sudden he's a Christian again.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you believe him?

C


----------



## ariel_angel77

No, not really at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ariel_angel77

turnera said:


> So you know, when I broke up with my abusive fiance, he was SHOCKED. Astounded. He never DREAMED I'd have the balls to leave him; hell, he never even saw I was unhappy.
> 
> But once I broke up with him (he worked across the street from me), he started showing up at my work every.single.day. Every day. He'd come in and tell me that he could no longer eat. He couldn't think. He couldn't go to work. He had to drop all his classes as he was just too upset to continue. He couldn't breathe. He might as well die (this from the most self-centered man I've ever met). His parents were worried about him (he knew that one would get to me). On and on, day after day. After about a month of this daily barrage, I broke down. I was the only girl in a store full of guys, and they just had enough and they blocked him from coming in (thank God!), so he could no longer harass me, and I could breathe.
> 
> You'd think he was serious, right? That he was really grieving, it was just too hard, he really got it.
> 
> Two months later, he was married.


I've been thinking about this all day. He's being just like this. Constantly seeking out affection from me, trying to get me to kiss him, making sexual comments, making me feel horrible when I don't want to then being sweet again. I really feel like he's going to kill me at any moment for not wanting to get back together right now. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBear

ariel_angel77 said:


> No, not really at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good. So keep that in mind when making your lists. 

C


----------



## PBear

ariel_angel77 said:


> I've been thinking about this all day. He's being just like this. Constantly seeking out affection from me, trying to get me to kiss him, making sexual comments, making me feel horrible when I don't want to then being sweet again. I really feel like he's going to kill me at any moment for not wanting to get back together right now. :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why are you having this much interaction with him that this is even an option?

C


----------



## turnera

I thought you left him. How is he around you?


----------



## ariel_angel77

He has been staying at the house because hes been crying and begging me to let him stay every night. It's hard to say no to someone when they are crying. However, we are not together and there is no romantic interaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

ariel, come on. You know better. Either you leave him or you don't. Tomorrow morning, tell him he has to leave.


----------



## Openminded

You are going to have to toughen up and not be taken in by his tears. He's manipulating you. And having him there is not a good idea. You don't really know what he'll do.


----------



## turnera

Can your brother or father or cousin come stay with you for the weekend? I reckon he'll leave if you have someone male there.


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## Kylie84

I'd be telling him he needs to go live with his family if he has nowhere else to go. He has no business hanging around your neck in your own personal space. He will never understand that you are serious when you said it is over, because he plays on your beliefs in marriage and knows how to manipulate you.
You are a smart young woman, and while I totally believe that with age comes wisdom I know that YOU KNOW he is playing you.
I know you are worried about your daughter coming from a divorced home but I assure you she will grow up healthy and well adjusted coming from a divorced mother and father who love her, rather than continuing to witness mum and dad hurting each other. She needs a strong woman role model in her life not a door mat. 
Would you be pleased if she married young and continued to stay with someone who abused her in such a way? Because this is what you will be teaching her. You are her example


----------



## Blossom Leigh

This is how he gets the wrong impression that you are his.



It also tells me your boundaries need work. 

Www.outofthefog.net
Boundaries books by Townsend
Emotional Blackmail book


----------



## ariel_angel77

So, this morning, I told him to leave. He made it as humanly difficult as possible. First, he told me he didn't have anywhere to go and he would just have to sleep in his truck. Then, he said that he would have to go 45 minutes away to stay with his grandmother and drop out of school, since I was his life and I have gone and he has lost everything now. Then he told me that he is suicidal and I don't have to worry about him because he won't be "around" for much longer. I am still telling him to leave but OMG. Why is he acting this way, like he has no reason to live if we're not together? Like, is he really going to commit suicide?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> So, this morning, I told him to leave. He made it as humanly difficult as possible. First, he told me he didn't have anywhere to go and he would just have to sleep in his truck. Then, he said that he would have to go 45 minutes away to stay with his grandmother and drop out of school, since I was his life and I have gone and he has lost everything now. Then he told me that he is suicidal and I don't have to worry about him because he won't be "around" for much longer. I am still telling him to leave but OMG. Why is he acting this way, like he has no reason to live if we're not together? Like, is he really going to commit suicide?


Emotional Blackmail... Darlin' get that book on Amazon today,... you are going to need it.


----------



## PBear

The correct response, when someone threatens suicide, would be to let the police and his family know. If he's serious, he'll get the help he needs. If he's not serious, he won't do it again. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ariel_angel77

Should I not let him have alone time with our child at all?


----------



## GA HEART

I wouldn't.


----------



## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> So, this morning, I told him to leave. He made it as humanly difficult as possible. First, he told me he didn't have anywhere to go and he would just have to sleep in his truck. Then, he said that he would have to go 45 minutes away to stay with his grandmother and drop out of school, since I was his life and I have gone and he has lost everything now. Then he told me that he is suicidal and I don't have to worry about him because he won't be "around" for much longer. I am still telling him to leave but OMG. Why is he acting this way, like he has no reason to live if we're not together? Like, is he really going to commit suicide?


Nope. I listened to the exact same manipulative bullshyte. Like I said, it's what they do. In WDHDT?, it explains that such men are MASTER manipulators, they know EXACTLY what will make you waver, what will make you feel guilty, and they can shed tears like a psychopath - if that's what makes you back down. 

Please stop letting him contact you.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> Should I not let him have alone time with our child at all?


No.. you may end up needing a restraining order...


----------



## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> Should I not let him have alone time with our child at all?


"stbx, if you feel suicidal, I'll call 911 for you; the ambulance driver can determine if you need to be hospitalized. And in the meantime, if you're having so much trouble, I think it's best that you not care for our child until you've managed to get help for your emotions."


----------



## EleGirl

Angel, you are in a very grey area legally.

The place you are living in is his legal residence. It does not matter if the school gave it to you. It's where he has lived. It's the marital home. If he does not want to leave you cannot make him leave. If you are lucky he will not find out that you cannot make him leave. So stick with kicking him out unless he finds out his rights.

This is why a lot of couples live together until a judge orders one of them out of the house.

Can he go live with that wonder brother of his for now? Does the brother live near by?

Legally you also cannot deny him time with your daughter. She's his daughter every bit as much as she is your daughter.

Your best bet would be to file for divorce and iron these things out.

Does he have the income to rent a room or small apartment right now? Can he help you financially if he does?


----------



## EleGirl

Blossom Leigh said:


> No.. you may end up needing a restraining order...


What does she have that would justify a restraining order?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ariel_angel77 said:


> So, this morning, I told him to leave. He made it as humanly difficult as possible. First, he told me he didn't have anywhere to go and he would just have to sleep in his truck. Then, he said that he would have to go 45 minutes away to stay with his grandmother and drop out of school, since I was his life and I have gone and he has lost everything now. Then he told me that he is suicidal and I don't have to worry about him because he won't be "around" for much longer. I am still telling him to leave but OMG. Why is he acting this way, like he has no reason to live if we're not together? Like, is he really going to commit suicide?


Oh GOOD LORD. Of COURSE he isnt really suicidal! He is manipulating you! He thinks if he does the whole "woe is me" song and dance, it will play on your pity and you will give in! He is full of sh!t! Next time he plays this suicide card, grab your phone and tell him you are calling the police because he is a danger to himself. He will back off, because he isnt serious.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

EleGirl said:


> What does she have that would justify a restraining order?


He has gotten violent and punched a hole in her wall... if that escalates to him touching her, she may end up in that situation.


----------



## EleGirl

Blossom Leigh said:


> He has gotten violent and punched a hole in her wall... if that escalates to him touching her, she may end up in that situation.


Angel might want to call the police over the hole in the wall to get that violence recorded. It might be hard for her to get a restraining order on that one incident. But if this nonsense continues, then she can call each time and build up a case.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

EleGirl said:


> Angel might want to call the police over the hole in the wall to get that violence recorded. It might be hard for her to get a restraining order on that one incident. But if this nonsense continues, then she can call each time and build up a case.



Educate yourself in domestic violence laws in Alabama. Some states limit reporting to only 4 hours. 

ACADV: List of Free Legal Service Offices in Alabama


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ACADV Map of Alabama Shelters

just in case you need it.... I'm in Alabama too and I dont know which town you are in..

I'm trying to find out if Alabama has a time frame on reporting domestic violence.

No luck... will probably have to call someone locally to verify.


----------



## PBear

EleGirl said:


> Angel, you are in a very grey area legally.
> 
> The place you are living in is his legal residence. It does not matter if the school gave it to you. It's where he has lived. It's the marital home. If he does not want to leave you cannot make him leave. If you are lucky he will not find out that you cannot make him leave. So stick with kicking him out unless he finds out his rights.
> 
> This is why a lot of couples live together until a judge orders one of them out of the house.
> 
> Can he go live with that wonder brother of his for now? Does the brother live near by?
> 
> Legally you also cannot deny him time with your daughter. She's his daughter every bit as much as she is your daughter.
> 
> Your best bet would be to file for divorce and iron these things out.
> 
> Does he have the income to rent a room or small apartment right now? Can he help you financially if he does?


This. If he wises up, he can push the issues on custody/ access and likely residence. In the meantime, you can stand strong on what is best for you. Having him sit around all whiny isn't best for anyone. 

Frankly, I'd tell him that sitting around crying really isn't doing anything to make him more attractive to you. And then punt him. And call his grandma and brother about his suicide threat. Then it's their issue. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

In my state, the burden of proof for a RO is ridiculously low...pretty much the judge asks if you feel threatened, harassed, or in danger, you answer yes, and boom...RO.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Call an attorney and the cops to find out details about your situation in Alabama.


----------



## GA HEART

In AL a RO is quite easy to get. At least it was back when I had the need to do so. And anyone making suicide threats is NOT stable enough to take a child nor would any court agree to allow him to. 

Ariel, you may have to get an emergency custody/support order, but those are not hard to get.


----------



## GA HEART

If you genuinely feel threatened, call DHR. They will "restrict" him in a HURRY.


----------



## ariel_angel77

Thank you so much for the advice, everyone. I super appreciate it.


----------



## turnera

So is he gone?


----------



## sunvalley

ariel_angel77 said:


> First, he told me he didn't have anywhere to go and he would just have to sleep in his truck. Then, he said that he would have to go 45 minutes away to stay with his grandmother and drop out of school, since I was his life and I have gone and he has lost everything now. Then he told me that he is suicidal and I don't have to worry about him because he won't be "around" for much longer.


If he threatens suicide, tell him you'll call the police to come check on him. If he whines about having nowhere to go and his life is gone, say, "I am not responsible for your life or happiness. Go. Now."

He's up to his old tricks. And you and your daughter deserve better (and ARE better).


----------



## ariel_angel77

Yes, he's staying with his grandma for the weekend.


----------



## turnera

Awesome! I'm SO proud of you!


----------



## Kylie84

turnera said:


> Awesome! I'm SO proud of you!


:smthumbup: Me too!
Now harness that inner power and remember how it feels... I have a feeling he will be back on Monday seeking refuge. Good luck!


----------



## ariel_angel77

intheory said:


> Kissing someone isn't "adultery", imo. Is that all it was? I just don't want you beating yourself up over something that wasn't that big a deal.
> 
> If you did have sex (genitals/orgasm involved); then you are losing your spiritual bearings. I don't judge. I'm just pointing it out. No sex outside of marriage; right?
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> When your stbxh threatens suicide; immediately call 911. Don't tell him, do it quietly. When the paramedics arrive, explain the situation.
> 
> This is just so there is documentation that your H threatens suicide. It makes him an unfit parent; and shows everyone what you have been dealing with.
> 
> Get a restaining order for the same reason. A paper trail. Keep the records of the 500+ calls to his brother's gf. (weird).
> --------------------------
> 
> An aside. I saw your pics. in the social spot. You are a beautiful girl. No wonder stbxh lied about being a Christian. Lots of men will lie to you to get to have sex with someone as pretty as you. You'll have to develop your own strength to resist it. You're going to feel vulnerable and needy at times in life; guys offering "comfort" are going to be hard to say no to sometimes. Fix your sights on deserving the best; and giving the best in return.
> 
> Best wishes to you and your baby girl.


Thank you so much, intheory


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Ariel- just noticed your thread. Hoping for the best for you and the baby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Ariel, if he comes over today, remember that YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER THE DOOR. Ok? Legalities aside, if you don't want to see hi, you don't have to. He's sitting over there at his family's house trying to come up with a PLAN that will get you to let him stay home. Remember that. You are NOT his friend right now. You are his conquest.


----------



## Kylie84

^ And if he still has a key and lets himself in you need to tell him to leave immediately. If he uses seeing your baby as an excuse to stay then tell him in the coming week you will be in contact with him to organize a visit and he is not to show up unannounced or without permission FIRST.


----------



## Kylie84

How's things?


----------



## ariel_angel77

Not as well. Our anniversary is Wednesday & I don't know what to do. I don't want to just ignore it. Should I? He's really been looking forward to it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

there are no more anniversaries


----------



## ariel_angel77

I know it makes me sound really soft & weak but I just feel like a b word to end things right before our anniversary I guess.


----------



## farsidejunky

That is exactly what he wants you to think. Ignore it. You may feel nostalgic, or that he's owed something. It will only make situation worse.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Where is he staying right now?


----------



## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> I know it makes me sound really soft & weak but I just feel like a b word to end things right before our anniversary I guess.


If you hadn't been abused for so long, you wouldn't be feeling soft and weak - abuse strips you of your self worth and your belief in your own feelings. If you hadn't been abused, you would have been MAD AS HELL for how he treated you and you'd never give him another second of thought.

Now that you're away from him, you have to take steps to build your self confidence back up.
DO NOT LET HIM COME BACK. Not now. Not for a long time.


----------



## Openminded

Do you think he really would be happier if you ended it after celebrating your anniversary? No. It is what it is.


----------



## Kylie84

Openminded said:


> Do you think he really would be happier if you ended it after celebrating your anniversary? No. It is what it is.



I second that. You will be doing NO ONE any favors by prolonging the inevitable, or providing false hope to him.
This has to be as clean as it can be which is already difficult due to there being a baby in the mix.
I get that right now you won't feel this way, but you have absolutely 100% made the right decision with ending the marriage. 
He was never who you thought he was anyway. That man you married never existed. Please remember that


----------



## doubletrouble

I delayed filing for my divorce till after Valentine's Day. 

That was a worthless waste of time.


----------



## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> Not as well. Our anniversary is Wednesday & I don't know what to do. I don't want to just ignore it. Should I? He's really been looking forward to it.


Of course you should ignore it. YOU LEFT HIM! This anniversary is dead.

Unless you're just doing this as an act? To try to get something from him? In which case, not good.

He can always fix himself and become a good member of society and THEN you and he can start a new set of anniversaries - the date at which he finally gave up being abusive and became a real man.


----------



## ariel_angel77

Please help. Please. I like broke down and gave him false hope. I celebrated the anniversary with him. I felt so bad for not doing it. We had sex twice. We've been saying "I love you" again. He told me he would be really mad if I told him we aren't getting back together after that. I don't know what to do, I don't want to be with him but I don't know why I did those things, I want to be separated for good. It's so hard when he's being SOOO nice and showing me the person he was when we dated--the person I married. Also he says he's changed forreal and when I tell him that's not possible he says "that's just your opinion" like it's crazy for me to not think he's changed. And then he says he's going to therapy like I asked and it makes me feel WORSE to not want to be with him after he's working on things.

PLEASE help get me out of this state of mind and help me figure out how to end this once and for all. I don't have money to file for divorce yet & I don't know what else to do. Like EleGirl said, I can't kick him out because legally it's his home too. PLEASE HELP


----------



## ariel_angel77

He's like so good at inching his way back in after I've told him we aren't getting back together (which I've done twice this week) and I don't know how to stop it.


----------



## turnera

"H, I told you what I want. You are not respecting my feelings or my wishes. If you don't leave me alone, I'm going to have to take stronger steps. When I say leave, you have to leave."


----------



## turnera

"Husband, when I said you had to go to therapy for me to consider, I meant that you have to go to a LOT of therapy. You don't change in a week, a month, or even 6 months. I have to see you going to therapy for at least 6 months before I can even consider dating you again."

Can't you say that? If not, write it and text it to him.


----------



## turnera

If you don't know how to stop it, JUST STOP SEEING HIM. It's not that complicated. Don't let him in.


----------



## CardReader

My parents have been married almost 30 years, most of them miserable years (for everyone involved). My dad would act all sweet, loving, saying how much he will change and not do certain things during "courting" so she wouldn't leave. That lasted for a few months then back to his typical ways. So pretty much three months out of each year he'd act like he loved her, the rest very abusive verbally and horribly controlling. 

So my mom is in her mid-50's, terribly unhappy all the time, and has now decided to get a divorce (this is her third time trying to divorce my dad, all the other times she ended up not going through it because he'd act all sweet). 

Don't let him suck you in with the lies, because that's what they are. Don't stay with him to see if his actions do change because who knows how long he will keep up the front. If you give into him about this, he will never change his behavior any way. He has lost nothing by treating you like crap if you stay.

What are you doing to prevent yourself from staying??

I'd not sleep in the same bed and not touch him in any way. Cook your meals seperate, he can cook for himself. Don't interact with him other than whats nesscary. Pretty much treat him like an unwelcome roommate. Don't have sex with him! All that will do is further weaken your resolve.


----------



## Openminded

That was predictable. What did you think he was going to think about celebrating your anniversary and having sex? Why would he believe your words about wanting out when your actions say something else?

Tell him, again, you are done -- if you really are. And mean it. He can only manipulate you if you let him.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Because your desire to be wanted and loved is stronger than your desire to not hurt him by accepting his overtures.

Before you can have any healthy relationship with anyone you must gain integrity that rises above self.


----------



## doubletrouble

I second all of the above, Ariel. You had a moment of sentimental weakness. Don't let him think all's well now just because of that.


----------



## sunvalley

ariel_angel77 said:


> Please help. Please. I like broke down and gave him false hope. I celebrated the anniversary with him. I felt so bad for not doing it. We had sex twice. We've been saying "I love you" again. *He told me he would be really mad if I told him we aren't getting back together after that.*


Of course he's saying that — he doesn't want to man up and actually do the heavy lifting on himself. Many people are like that. And imagine that — he's still alive. Suicide, huh? Riiiiiiight.

Okay, so you had a moment or three of weakness. That's normal when first leaving an abuser. But you have to dig deep down now, and gather together all your strength.

Stop saying you love him. Focus on any flaw of his you can think of. And focus on what he did to your daughter. _Not feeding her for eight hours?_ That, right there, tells me his true colors. You married an illusion ... and illusions can't be kept up for long.



ariel_angel77 said:


> I don't know what to do, I don't want to be with him but I don't know why I did those things, I want to be separated for good. It's so hard when he's being SOOO nice and showing me the person he was when we dated--the person I married. Also *he says he's changed forreal and when I tell him that's not possible he says "that's just your opinion" like it's crazy for me to not think he's changed.*


He's manipulating and blaming YOU for his actions. That's what abusers do, and they're experts at it. Remember that. Trust NOTHING he says — he's gotta back it up with action. You are NOT responsible for his actions or behavior. HE is. And if you really want him gone, you have to back up your words with action, too. That may sound harsh, especially when you're hurting, but you have to do it.

You had a few moments of weakness, and he's taking advantage of you. If he's saying things like this, I highly doubt he's working on himself at all. Been there, done that. NOTHING changed. He'd be all nicey-nice for two, three weeks ... and then right back to his old tricks.



ariel_angel77 said:


> And then he says he's going to therapy like I asked and it makes me feel WORSE to not want to be with him after he's working on things.
> 
> PLEASE help get me out of this state of mind and help me figure out how to end this once and for all. I don't have money to file for divorce yet & I don't know what else to do. Like EleGirl said, I can't kick him out because legally it's his home too. PLEASE HELP


Focus on his not feeding your daughter for eight hours. (Has he even apologized for this? Is he even remorseful for having done it? If not, you have your answer about his true colors.) Know he's trying to manipulate you — someone who loved you would respect your wishes and stay away, and really commit to therapy. Start saving money, figure out a way to get his key away from him (if he still has it), and look into social programs to help you.

Stay strong. I know it will hurt like hell — and you probably are right now. And this is a process; it may take a little while. But you must stand firm for your daughter, if no one else. You *can* do this!


----------



## richie33

I guess you really didn't finally do it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

One thing you need to remember... because he has had violent reactions to you before that when you play these games it could illicit them ... next time he comes onto you, if you don't want another fist in the wall... turn him down.


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## SamuraiJack

...and thats they way he has ALWAYS done it..isnt it?
He seduces you so he can be mean to you.
If you threaten to leave he seduces you all over again.

You have to see that he is leading you back to him by using your weaknesses.
Break this cycle...
You can do it!


----------



## turnera

The fact that he even DARED to say he would be MAD if you didn't take him back - after telling you he's 'changed' - is all I'd need to hear to divorce him and never look back.


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## 3Xnocharm

turnera said:


> The fact that he even DARED to say he would be MAD if you didn't take him back - after telling you he's 'changed' - is all I'd need to hear to divorce him and never look back.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> The fact that he even DARED to say he would be MAD if you didn't take him back - after telling you he's 'changed' - is all I'd need to hear to divorce him and never look back.


Yep... got this book yet?

http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Bla...411154959&sr=8-1&keywords=emotional+blackmail

Why would you have sex with him before reading this book? Do not give him anymore of your time until you have read it cover to cover.


----------



## PBear

Perhaps you should just go back and reread the advice you've already got (and ignored). Start with that, and see if you still need help 


C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

PBear said:


> Perhaps you should just go back and reread the advice you've already got (and ignored). Start with that, and see if you still need help


Ariel, ^this will probably hit you pretty harshly, but it's solid thinking.

You've probably dismissed a good deal of the advice that you've received thus far in this thread... maybe some of it seems impossible to follow for one reason or another, or some of it comes across as devastatingly inconvenient, etc. It's time to reset that thinking.

Start by talking w/ lawyers in your area. Find out which ones will provide free consultations, and then talk to EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. THEM. ...that way, your husband can't talk to ANY of them later on down the road.

Talk to the campus housing authority and see about getting the door locks changed, and tell them why... they'll very likely feel an urgent need to get them changed ASAP, and not only to protect you, but to protect themselves as well.


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## ariel_angel77

Thank you everyone so much for the advice. Please don't think I'm ignoring any of the advice here, I take all of it to heart. I really do. That's why I came back and asked for help when I slipped. Thanks for giving it to me. I'm going to look into all the things everyone here suggested and I'm going to read the book Blossom suggested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

Bravo Girl

Take care of yourself and that precious child


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## turnera

Ah, but you didn't really tell us what's going on. Which means you let him come home. Right?


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## PBear

You say you're not ignoring the advice given, but you did. What was your reasoning to "celebrating" your anniversary? How about for having sex? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you need to take a hard honest look at the why's. 

As far as going forward, you need to take a hard stance. Like what you were told before. Right now, you're just messing with his mind by giving him false hope. That's going to end up much more painful than if you had taken a consistent stance. So even though you think you're being nice, you're not.

What have you done so far to actually move forward on your separation/divorce? Have you talked to a lawyer? Your school? Where is he living now? 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ariel_angel77

Tonight I told him we aren't getting back together. He accepted it a lot better than I thought. He says he has nowhere to go. I dont want to just kick him out on his tail. (it turns out his stepdad wont let him live with him and STBX's mom. I decided to let him stay until he finds a place, but what are some ground rules I can implement? How can I protect myself from falling back in the same trap? (other than reading that book). And P Bear, I'm pretty sure that if I tell my school that I'm separated, they'll kick me out of the apartment. The only reason I'm able to stay here is because I'm married. I'm not sure what to do about that. Also I had sex with him and gave him false hope because I feel AWFUL about ending this. I feel like a terrible person for not trying anymore when he's trying so hard (or so it seems). I know it's just an illusion though and I have to push forward. It's just been hard for me. I never once got back together though. And I'm not going to. Let me know if you guys have any more suggestions or think I should do something differently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ariel_angel77

Also, I'm applying for jobs left and right. That's all I can do until I get a job and get money to file for divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> Tonight I told him we aren't getting back together. He accepted it a lot better than I thought. He says he has nowhere to go. I dont want to just kick him out on his tail. (it turns out his stepdad wont let him live with him and STBX's mom. I decided to let him stay until he finds a place, but what are some ground rules I can implement? How can I protect myself from falling back in the same trap? (other than reading that book). And P Bear, I'm pretty sure that if I tell my school that I'm separated, they'll kick me out of the apartment. The only reason I'm able to stay here is because I'm married. I'm not sure what to do about that. Also I had sex with him and gave him false hope because I feel AWFUL about ending this. I feel like a terrible person for not trying anymore when he's trying so hard (or so it seems). I know it's just an illusion though and I have to push forward. It's just been hard for me. I never once got back together though. And I'm not going to. Let me know if you guys have any more suggestions or think I should do something differently.


You having a child might qualify you for student housing. Don't do anything that gets you kicked out of your place. But do find out the rules.

You cannot kick him out.. and he seems to know that as he's pushing back. 

The issue is not that he's good at sweet talking you. The issue is that you have no real boundaries. You are allowing anything he does. So set some rules. He can stay but he cannot sleep with you. Maybe get an air mattress for him or he can sleep on the couch. 

Do not allow him to sit on the couch near you. ... NO touching at all.


----------



## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> Also, I'm applying for jobs left and right. That's all I can do until I get a job and get money to file for divorce.


Have you checked out any legal aid organizations?


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> You having a child might qualify you for student housing. Don't do anything that gets you kicked out of your place. But do find out the rules.


Word.



EleGirl said:


> You cannot kick him out.. and he seems to know that as he's pushing back.


Eh... if he knew that, he'd probably just tell her that he isn't leaving instead of moping about how he doesn't have anywhere to go.



EleGirl said:


> The issue is not that he's good at sweet talking you. The issue is that you have no real boundaries. You are allowing anything he does. So set some rules. He can stay but he cannot sleep with you. Maybe get an air mattress for him or he can sleep on the couch.


Agreed.



EleGirl said:


> Do not allow him to sit on the couch near you. ... NO touching at all.


Again, agreed.

Ariel, remind us... do you not have family or close friends nearby?

Also, where are you at in your studies? I'm thinking that the semester probably just started... correct?

How are you paying for school? Loans? Grants? Scholarships? Out of pocket? I'm asking for a specific reason.


----------



## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> Tonight I told him we aren't getting back together. He accepted it a lot better than I thought. He says he has nowhere to go. I dont want to just kick him out on his tail. (it turns out his stepdad wont let him live with him and STBX's mom. I decided to let him stay until he finds a place, but what are some ground rules I can implement? How can I protect myself from falling back in the same trap? (other than reading that book). And P Bear, I'm pretty sure that if I tell my school that I'm separated, they'll kick me out of the apartment. The only reason I'm able to stay here is because I'm married. I'm not sure what to do about that. Also I had sex with him and gave him false hope because I feel AWFUL about ending this. I feel like a terrible person for not trying anymore when he's trying so hard (or so it seems). I know it's just an illusion though and I have to push forward. It's just been hard for me. I never once got back together though. And I'm not going to. Let me know if you guys have any more suggestions or think I should do something differently.


Yeah, you tell him THE INSTANT he raises his voice OR blames you, he and all his stuff are GONE.

You also tell him that he has until midnight September 30 to be gone. You tell him that if he is still there on October 1, you are telling the apartment manager to call the police.

Also, he is NOT allowed to touch you or talk to you. If he tries either, you are leaving the room. Make it clear you are NOT HIS FRIEND.

ariel, I really don't know what to tell you. You're an adult. You're living like an adult. But all your actions are those of a 14 year old girl. SOMEwhere, SOMEhow, you need to grow a backbone and start BEING an adult. If you can't do it, call your parents and ask THEM to be the adult.


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## PhillyGuy13

Ariel, check with campus housing what your options are. You are the student correct (or both of you)? I doubt they will kick a mom out with a young baby, we are now a month into the semester.

What the college does not want, is any incidents of domestic violence. It goes into their annual campus safety report, a permanent mark. They want those stats down. So talk to them to see what they suggest as far as separate housing.

You may be eligible for work study too. Talk to the FAO. Depends if you have room in your cost of attendance budget, if not you could forgo loan eligibility but that doesn't get you more aid, just shifts it from loan to FWS.


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## Blossom Leigh

If you are at the University of Alabama I have connections there.


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## ariel_angel77

GusPolinski said:


> Word.
> 
> 
> 
> Eh... if he knew that, he'd probably just tell her that he isn't leaving instead of moping about how he doesn't have anywhere to go.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, agreed.
> 
> Ariel, remind us... do you not have family or close friends nearby?
> 
> Also, where are you at in your studies? I'm thinking that the semester probably just started... correct?
> 
> How are you paying for school? Loans?  Grants? Scholarships? Out of pocket? I'm asking for a specific reason.


My closest family is two hours away. I started school on August 20, so a month into it. I'm paying for school with grants and loans--which paid for my tuition and my housing, but didn't leave much left over.


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## ariel_angel77

turnera said:


> Yeah, you tell him THE INSTANT he raises his voice OR blames you, he and all his stuff are GONE.
> 
> You also tell him that he has until midnight September 30 to be gone. You tell him that if he is still there on October 1, you are telling the apartment manager to call the police.
> 
> Also, he is NOT allowed to touch you or talk to you. If he tries either, you are leaving the room. Make it clear you are NOT HIS FRIEND.
> 
> ariel, I really don't know what to tell you. You're an adult. You're living like an adult. But all your actions are those of a 14 year old girl. SOMEwhere, SOMEhow, you need to grow a backbone and start BEING an adult. If you can't do it, call your parents and ask THEM to be the adult.


How funny...he keeps trying to inch himself in as my friend. He keeps asking me if I want a night cap with him. I guess I just wanted to be friendly for the baby...should I not talk to him at all? And I know that I have a lot of learning and growing left to do. I know that I'm too nice. 

I have a family member who keeps making me feel bad about the situation. She says she was abused with being hit a lot and gun threats, and she doesn't think what happened to me constitutes as abuse. She thinks what has occurred in my marriage occurs in every marriage and that "I'm just going to be trading one set of problems for another." I don't feel like my situation is like this at all. But she just makes me feel like I'm divorcing over small incidents. They don't feel small to me at all.


----------



## ariel_angel77

intheory said:


> ariel,
> 
> It's so important for you not to live with him anymore. And yet, you seem to be "stuck" with these circumstances. At least for a while more.
> 
> When you are around him in the apartment, wear baggy loose clothes that in no way accentuate your body or emphasize your sexuality. Don't wear make-up or fix your hair or wear pretty cologne. Shower, deodorant and a couple of layers of baggy clothes. Lock the bathroom door when you are in the shower, so he can't join you if he feels like it.
> 
> Have baby stuff in places where sex might take place; diaper supplies near the bed. Playpen next to the couch. Make the environment as sexless as possible. Got any framed pictures of your parents or grandparents that you can put near the bed or couch?
> 
> "Take care" of yourself alone in the shower. Getting rid of any sexual tension that's building up, will make you less vulnerable to him making advances for sex.
> 
> Avoid watching t.v. or movies that have a lot of romance or sexual themes; _especially_ if he is sitting next to you on the couch.
> 
> When you are cleaning bottles, or washing baby clothes: use those occasions to remind yourself that he didn't feed your daughter, or change her for 8 hours.
> 
> When he uses his phone, think how he just loves chatting up his brother's gf. Whatever it might mean.
> 
> This stuff is just to help you stay mad at him. 'Cause it seems like you get soft and forgiving really quick.
> 
> Acknowledge upfront that it is going to be hard to do this. You were in love with him at one point. You are both young and healthy. And you are living in the same place. It's going to be difficult. Prepare for it emotionally in advance.
> 
> Whenever possible, get out of there with your baby. Put her in the stroller and go for a walk. Can you take her somewhere with you to study?
> 
> Good luck.


This is good. Thank you. I will definitely do these things. I want to make myself as undesirable to him as possible. I want him to leave me alone. And yes--I have been thinking about it, it is hard. I am still attracted to him physically (despite not wanting to be with him at all) and I realize that I wouldn't have wanted the marriage to end if it hadn't been for the abuse and lying. But I CANNOT continue an abusive marriage. I've been stronger the last few days. I haven't let up at all.


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## ariel_angel77

Blossom Leigh said:


> If you are at the University of Alabama I have connections there.


I actually go to UNA.


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## EleGirl

A month into your first semester is a terrible time to have to go through this. Somehow you need to concentrate on your studies.

Does your school have a newspaper? If so check it out to see if it lists any services to available to students who are going through a hard time.

There might be a child care coop. Or group meetings for students with children.


----------



## Westwind

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thank you so much for the support.
> 
> Oh, forgot to mention. The thing that pushed me to end it today was that I came home at 3pm (he watches 12 month old baby while I'm at school) and DD was screaming. I found out that he had not fed her since 8 a.m. earlier that morning. I was so furious. He will NOT neglect her.


If he cannot take care of a baby then he is likely to not take care of himself and will die young. He is also going to suffer a lot of stress with his life style that will take a hit to his immune system. Who wants to take care of a sick guy that brought it on himself and is difficult to live with.


----------



## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> I have a family member who keeps making me feel bad about the situation. She says she was abused with being hit a lot and gun threats, and she doesn't think what happened to me constitutes as abuse. She thinks what has occurred in my marriage occurs in every marriage and that "I'm just going to be trading one set of problems for another." I don't feel like my situation is like this at all. But she just makes me feel like I'm divorcing over small incidents. They don't feel small to me at all.


Those people are the worst of all. There's a lady here who was so badly abused that the police said they'd never seen anything so bad - he had done EVERYthing he could have done to her. And she was handicapped and has to have a caretaker bathe her and she had to ride a scooter. And yet she still left her abuser. And would you believe, her sister is telling her what, he's not that bad, you should give him another chance. Not!

If she can do it, you can do it, ariel. Don't listen to her. YOU have to live your life. And by sending him out BY THE END OF THE MONTH, he just might get help and become the good father and potential mate that he should. But he never will if he just stays with you. He's already showing that he's not taking you seriously, just trying to NICE you back into letting him stay.

DID you tell him he has to be out by October 1? It's only a week away. What specifically is he doing to move out? You should be asking him every single day.

And NO, you should NOT be talking to him right now except to ask him what he is doing to leave. Not until he is gone. He is desperate for ANY tiny instance of seeing you weakening your resolve. Right now, you can NOT afford to look nice. You are mad for a reason, remember? He can show you how nice he is once he is SOMEWHERE ELSE. For now he is your enemy until he does what you asked - leave.


----------



## turnera

EleGirl said:


> A month into your first semester is a terrible time to have to go through this. Somehow you need to concentrate on your studies.
> 
> Does your school have a newspaper? If so check it out to see if it lists any services to available to students who are going through a hard time.
> 
> There might be a child care coop. Or group meetings for students with children.


Here you go.
Student Counseling Services - Student Counseling Services | University of North Alabama


And I imagine you're already using this:
Campus Directory | University of North Alabama

And the Psychology department might offer counseling as well, as part of their training:
Campus Directory | University of North Alabama


----------



## ariel_angel77

Thanks EleGirl. And Turnera, he doesn't have a job right now and is not able to support himself. I'm not sure what else to do. Kick him out to where he's homeless? Oh btw I found out that he's been looking for women ad sex on Craigslist so I am NEVER EVER EVER getting back with him ever. That is so nasty!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

His house status is really not your problem... Call an attorney for ideas


----------



## PBear

You said he's got family. His problem to worry about. Stop letting excuses interfere. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Openminded

He needs to figure out his life without your assistance. And you need to quit worrying about it.


----------



## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thanks EleGirl. And Turnera, he doesn't have a job right now and is not able to support himself.


So? How is that YOUR problem? He's had plenty of time to find a job. I'm sure McDonalds is hiring. *Stop being a doormat*.


----------



## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> His house status is really not your problem... Call an attorney for ideas





PBear said:


> You said he's got family. His problem to worry about. Stop letting excuses interfere.





Openminded said:


> He needs to figure out his life without your assistance. And you need to quit worrying about it.





intheory said:


> Now you have your source of strength for not caring a rats azz if he is homeless or not.





turnera said:


> So? How is that YOUR problem? He's had plenty of time to find a job. I'm sure McDonalds is hiring. *Stop being a doormat*.


Agreed x 5


----------



## GusPolinski

ariel_angel77 said:


> Thanks EleGirl. And Turnera, he doesn't have a job right now and is not able to support himself. I'm not sure what else to do. Kick him out to where he's homeless? *Oh btw I found out that he's been looking for women ad sex on Craigslist so I am NEVER EVER EVER getting back with him ever. That is so nasty!!!!*


Ariel...

KICK. HIM. OUT. ON. HIS. ASS.


----------



## samyeagar

And I know you've already said it, but for god's sake, don't have sex with him ever again. Beyond the OBVIOUS heath risks of his behaviour affecting you...he treated me like this..he did this, he did that, said this, said that, and I still had sex with him anyway...how is that going to make you feel?


----------



## Westwind

samyeagar said:


> And I know you've already said it, but for god's sake, don't have sex with him ever again. Beyond the OBVIOUS heath risks of his behaviour affecting you...he treated me like this..he did this, he did that, said this, said that, and I still had sex with him anyway...how is that going to make you feel?


Also, sex causes feel good hormones that really muddle thinking. You will get instant relief from the conflicting emotions when you stop having sex. Your intellectual mind needs to think clearly.


----------



## ariel_angel77

OKAY. I just hacked his email and found where he had posted on Craigslist that he wanted a man on man encounter. Men replied to him and there's proof of them meeting up. In fact, he directed them to MY apartment. I took screenshots and have proof. Omg my husband is gay!!! Like what do I do. Please tell me what legal action to take. I swear I'm not a troll, this is really happening to me. I know how crazy this is. I don't even know what to do right now. I never imagined this would happen. Please help!! Also the last time we had sex was after the dates of these encounters as listed on the email. OMG!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

Wow, Ariel. I did not see that one coming.

Get STD tested now.


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## GusPolinski

First, back up EVERYTHING to a USB thumb drive or external hard drive, and a couple of "Cloud" locations as well. 

Next, call whichever campus department oversees your housing and ask them to change the door locks. You can explain the situation w/o giving them all of the details... i.e. you have a small child there w/ you, your husband has a history of abuse and has been cheating, you're divorcing, and, since you want neither yourself nor your daughter to be exposed to either his less-than-savory activities or his fellow "participants", you want the door locks changed. (And DON'T give your husband copies of the new keys. DUH.)

Next...

KICK HIM OUT
KICK HIM OUT
KICK HIM OUT
KICK HIM OUT
KICK HIM OUT

Do this via text or over the phone. If he fights you at all, let him know that you're now aware of what he's been up to online. Additionally, tell him that, if he shows up at your place at all, you'll be calling both the police and campus security to have him removed from the premises. If he escalates at all in terms of harassing you, hit him w/ an OOP/RO. And start talking to lawyers!!!

Also (and this is *VITAL*), make sure that you clue your family into what's been going on... _and make sure that he knows that you've done this._

You should probably also consider taking a few days away from your studies to go stay w/ family. Talk w/ your professors to make them aware of what's going on in your life. I'd be shocked if they weren't willing to accommodate you to some degree.


----------



## PBear

What legal action do you take? How about the same action we've been telling you from the start of the thread. Go talk to a freaking lawyer already. Talk to your school resources. DO SOMETHING!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

Oh, and an STD check now and again in six months should be VERY high on your priority list. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Oh... and yes, time for a full panel of STD tests for you. You'll also want to repeat them in 3/6/12 months.

So sorry for you, Ariel...


----------



## doubletrouble

Ariel, this is a shock. Be calm though. What does it change? You're already done. Stay that way.


----------



## doubletrouble

ariel_angel77 said:


> OKAY. I just hacked his email and found where he had posted on Craigslist that he wanted a man on man encounter. Men replied to him and there's proof of them meeting up. In fact, he directed them to MY apartment. I took screenshots and have proof. Omg my husband is gay!!! Like what do I do. Please tell me what legal action to take. I swear I'm not a troll, this is really happening to me. I know how crazy this is. I don't even know what to do right now. I never imagined this would happen. Please help!! Also the last time we had sex was after the dates of these encounters as listed on the email. OMG!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did ou have any inkling of this over time? Was he into anal play or pegging? I don't need a graphic answer, but it would seem his closet is very well camoflauged. 

My ex turned out to be gay, but after years of no sex with her, the light dawned on me. So it's possible. That's why I'm asking. Think back.


----------



## richie33

You asked for a divorce, you want him out but you still are hacking into his computer? If you want it to be done it would be done. These posts are getting pretty suspicious.


----------



## sunvalley

ariel_angel77 said:


> ...found where he had posted on Craigslist that he wanted a man on man encounter. Men replied to him and there's proof of them meeting up. In fact, *he directed them to MY apartment.*
> 
> *Also the last time we had sex was after the dates of these encounters as listed on the email.*


Ariel. Look at what you just wrote. *Your STBX had strange men around your infant daughter?????* And he had sex with you AFTER these strange men had sex with him????

You *must* get this man out of your place.

So he has no job and nowhere to go? Not your problem. He's (supposedly) a grown man with some work experience. And now, you have proof that he's not only cheated on you but doesn't think about anyone except himself. Why are you putting up with this?

Make the time to talk to people. Clue your family in. Or, if they can take your daughter for a few days, let them do so. You need to take care of this NOW.



ariel_angel77 said:


> Please tell me what legal action to take. I swear I'm not a troll, this is really happening to me. I know how crazy this is. I don't even know what to do right now. I never imagined this would happen. Please help!!


Legal action? Divorce him NOW. You have irrefutable proof that he cheated on you (yes, even if it was with men, it's still cheating), possibly exposed you to STD's, AND had strange men near your daughter.

Gotta harden your heart now, girl -- your daughter needs you, and you are her only protection right now. Your family member is dead wrong; these are not small problems *at all.*


----------



## ariel_angel77

richie33 said:


> You asked for a divorce, you want him out but you still are hacking into his computer? If you want it to be done it would be done. These posts are getting pretty suspicious.


If you don't like the posts, you don't have to respond to them. All you've done is ridicule me anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ariel_angel77

Today I took my daughter & went to my mom's. I took both sets of keys with me. I called him at my moms and confronted him. First there was denial, then he said he got a protected bj from one guy not at the house. I told him I'm furious that he invited strange men to my house when I could be stolen from or murdered. He was just upset and mostly quiet. I asked of he was gay and he said no he was just experimenting and he didn't like it. Then he said he was upset I invaded his privacy. I got pissed so i told him he has until i get back Sunday to move out. Then I told him I'm worried about DD's safety around him. He began FREAKING out and crying and begging me not to take his daughter from him. I've never ever heard him behave in such a way. He then hung up. I called his sister & told her I'm concerned and asked her to check on him. She went to pick him up. He refused to talk to me. His dad ended up picking him up & taking him to his town 45 minutes away. So, he's out of the house and DD is away from him. I'm going to look into subsidized daycare & I found a local number for free legal aid which I will call Monday. I'm going to talk to my professors & hope they understand until I find daycare. What is a suggestion on what I should say to them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

The truth


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Something comes to mind Ariel. What was he doing the day he didn't feed your daughter all day? Could someone have been at your house? Do you feel the need to have your daughter checked by a medical professional for sexual abuse?


----------



## Openminded

I would think an unfed baby would have been crying for that period of time. Have you considered he wasn't at home then and just left her there? 

He obviously has family in the area. They can deal with him now.


----------



## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> Something comes to mind Ariel. What was he doing the day he didn't feed your daughter all day? Could someone have been at your house? Do you feel the need to have your daughter checked by a medical professional for sexual abuse?


Oh Lord... I hadn't even considered that. Excuse me while I vomit.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Have lifted you in prayer for your protection and strength.


----------



## sunvalley

ariel_angel77 said:


> Today I took my daughter & went to my mom's. I took both sets of keys with me.


Good for you!



ariel_angel77 said:


> I called him at my moms and confronted him. *First there was denial, then he said he got a protected bj from one guy not at the house.* I told him I'm furious that he invited strange men to my house when I could be stolen from or murdered. He was just upset and mostly quiet. I asked of he was gay and he said no he was just experimenting and he didn't like it. *Then he said he was upset I invaded his privacy.*


:rofl::rofl: Classic backpedaling. I'd bet my next paycheck he's lying about "a protected BJ."

But that's not the point. You're still married (technically, which I trust you'll remedy ASAP), and he's getting oral sex from someone else. THAT is cheating. AND, he lied to you. And I don't believe for one minute that he *didn't* bring at least one strange man to your home. _With your young daughter there_. He put your daughter and you in danger, and he's complaining that you invaded his privacy???

Ariel, that, right there, should tell you where his head's really at. He cares about nothing and no one except himself. If he truly loved you and was remorseful, he would a) not lie, no matter how painful it was, b) NOT put you and his young daughter in that kind of danger, and c) start working on himself. This "man" does not deserve one more minute of your time, or one more ounce of ANYTHING you have to give.



ariel_angel77 said:


> I got pissed so *i told him he has until i get back Sunday to move out. Then I told him I'm worried about DD's safety around him.*


Excellent! Keep up that good work and that mental barrier!



ariel_angel77 said:


> *He began FREAKING out and crying and begging me not to take his daughter from him. I've never ever heard him behave in such a way.*


Oh, please. More manipulation. Obviously his old tricks (sexual hints to you, trying to make nicey-nice, complaining that he has nowhere to go) aren't working on you anymore, so he's trying to use your daughter as a weapon. Utterly despicable.



ariel_angel77 said:


> I called his sister & told her I'm concerned and asked her to check on him. She went to pick him up. *He refused to talk to me.*


Awww, poor baby. Did his feelings get hurt ... getting caught out in lies and despicable behavior? Let him sulk. He's acting like a spoiled teenager who got caught with crack cocaine in his dresser drawer. He's just pissed you caught him in a bunch of lies.

Be strong! Remember ... Actions, not words. His _actions_ have shown he cares about nothing and no one except himself.



ariel_angel77 said:


> His dad ended up picking him up & taking him to his town 45 minutes away. So, he's out of the house and DD is away from him.


My, my. Imagine that. What was that he was saying ... that he has nowhere to go? Look who picks him up and takes him away: dear old dad. Your STBX is so full of it, *I* can't believe it (and believe me, I've met people in my time who were full of it).



ariel_angel77 said:


> I'm going to look into subsidized daycare & I found a local number for free legal aid which I will call Monday. I'm going to talk to my professors & hope they understand until I find daycare. What is a suggestion on what I should say to them?


1) Excellent. Make sure you make time to make those calls. Your daughter's welfare (and your own) is at stake here.

2) If it were me, I'd say something along the lines of, "Professor So-and-So (replace with their name), I'm going to need some time away. My husband brought strange men into my home and near my daughter. Because of my financial situation, I need to make some phone calls about subsidized daycare and legal aid. I want this man out of my life and away from my child."

Customize this to your situation and the people you deal with. But, do NOT be emotional. Tell them matter-of-factly. And who knows? They might be able to help.

P.S. I can only imagine what you're going through ... especially after this news about strange men near your child. And I'm sure, deep down, you still love him a little (I was with an abuser for a while, so I can empathize). But it takes TWO for a marriage to work. And his actions have shown he loves nothing and no one except himself. He doesn't *want* to work on this marriage. Stay strong. You CAN do this!


----------



## ariel_angel77

Btw...Gus...yes, he always tells me he loves anal play & wants to do it. Like, he likes it more than PIV. 

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. Will let you know what else happens. Sunvalley, thanks. Loved your post. Oh and to clarify to everyone, the encounters happened while I was away with my baby at my grandmother's house. However, he says it was just one encounter and he said it happened at McDonald's. I asked him how he did that in a crowded McDonald's parking lot, and he said his windows are very tinted.


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## GusPolinski

*cough* BULLSH*T!!!


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## sunvalley

ariel_angel77 said:


> Sunvalley, thanks. Loved your post.


You're most welcome. I imagine this is all frightening and strange ... but if you stay the course, it will get better. You and your daughter deserve better.



ariel_angel77 said:


> Oh and to clarify to everyone, the encounters happened while I was away with my baby at my grandmother's house. However, *he says it was just one encounter and he said it happened at McDonald's. I asked him how he did that in a crowded McDonald's parking lot, and he said his windows are very tinted.*


:lol:  Riiiiiiight. It's against the law in most places to tint non-commercial vehicle windows *that* dark. What an idiot. Did he _really_ think you'd believe that?

Besides, I don't care if it was one encounter or a hundred. He sought (and got) sex outside your marriage AND lied about it. That makes him a cheater. I wouldn't believe anything this man says. He's already proven a hundred times over what a liar and all-around jerk he is.


----------



## sunvalley

GusPolinski said:


> *cough* BULLSH*T!!!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## EleGirl

Girl... I guess now all doubt of what you need to do is gone.


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## Blossom Leigh

What he just a receiver in that encounter or was he the giver too??


----------



## ariel_angel77

He said he was only a receiver and that he didn't even kiss the guy. He said he hated it & that he sought out a guy because he couldn't take the thought of being sexual with another woman. Then he said he didn't think he could get a woman. I'm so confused. He said he has no gay tendencies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Ariel, you shouldn't believe a single f*cking word that comes out of his mouth.

HE. IS. LYING. Honestly, that's the only one of his "tendencies" that you should even care about.


----------



## turnera

Stop listening to him. Move on.


----------



## Openminded

ariel_angel77 said:


> He said he was only a receiver and that he didn't even kiss the guy. He said he hated it & that he sought out a guy because he couldn't take the thought of being sexual with another woman. Then he said he didn't think he could get a woman. I'm so confused. He said he has no gay tendencies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you really think many bisexual/gay males actually admit the truth to their wives? They minimize. And lie. You are getting out, remember? The details don't matter.


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## clipclop2

He completed a blow job. He was not disgusted.

Don't listen to his lies.

He is gay. That would have been fine had he not dragged you into it add his cover and had not conceived an innocent child that he then neglects.

My suggestion is that you go dark on him. And if he won't leave you alone tell him you will tell everyone on the planet if he bothers you one more time. Tell him he is going to give you everything you request in the divorce and then he is going to fade away into the darkness and never bother you again.

Tell him.

Do not ask him.


----------



## ariel_angel77

So it's not cruel that I want to have full custody of my child? He like freaked out when I suggested it. Also this is really hard. This is my first night that I'm really alone. It feels like rock bottom & like I'll never get out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

ariel_angel77 said:


> So it's not cruel that I want to have full custody of my child? He like freaked out when I suggested it. Also this is really hard. This is my first night that I'm really alone. It feels like rock bottom & like I'll never get out.


Given the information that you've provided here, I'd say that it's probably in _*everyone's* best interest_ that you be granted full custody of your child.


----------



## sunvalley

ariel_angel77 said:


> So it's not cruel that I want to have full custody of my child? He like freaked out when I suggested it.


Agree with Gus 1000 percent, Ariel. It is NOT cruel, nor is it heartless, given what he's done to you and your daughter (especially recently). He can kick and scream all he wants; he brought this on himself. You did your best to be a loving wife and all he did was take a dump on that. Time for him to face the consequences of his selfishness and bad behavior.



ariel_angel77 said:


> Also this is really hard. This is my first night that I'm really alone. It feels like rock bottom & like I'll never get out.


I know it seems that way, Ariel, but I (and many other posters here) are living proof that life can and does get better. I know it's easy to say that from where I sit, but I'm telling you from personal experience.

It won't happen tomorrow; you will think about him for a while; some days you'll ache for him so bad your fingers will literally itch to pick up that phone and call or text him. But just focus on your schooling and your daughter ... and remember how he walked all over the two of you. He doesn't deserve you OR her. And, with time, you'll wonder why you ever gave him free rent inside your head (or heart).


----------



## clipclop2

He is a big baby. Don't show him to use your big heart against you. He didn't let anything stop him from getting blown or neglecting your poor little girl while she was hungry.

Please go dark on him. You don't need to listen to him play the injured one. He is a liar and a cheat and he is a neglectful father and all around pathetic piece of selfish garbage.


----------



## clipclop2

By the way, there is something really messed up with these gay guys who get married. They have a huge streak of narcissism running through them. They feel entitled. They manipulate. So really, stay aware of that characteristic and remember that whenever he is making you feel bad for protecting yourself and your baby girl. He did this to himself. 

Go dark. Stay dark. Everything through lawyers or third parties.

Get a VAR. Record conversations of they do happen.


----------



## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> So it's not cruel that I want to have full custody of my child? He like freaked out when I suggested it. Also this is really hard. This is my first night that I'm really alone. It feels like rock bottom & like I'll never get out.


The court is not going to care if he's straight, bi, or gay. What might matter is that he picked up some guy(s) on craigslist, gave that stronger your home address and he sex with a guy in your home when your child was there.

He's probably bi because it does sound like he likes women as well form the things you have said.

In today's world, in the courts that might matter. It might not. You need to talk to your lawyer. Do not talk much about whether he's gay or not. Talk about the high risk behavior of picking up men/women (gender does not matter to the court) on Craig's list and then brining these people into your home and around your child. You have evidence from the computer that he did this. 

To be honest, it's highly unlikely you will get full custody. Again talk to the lawyer and see what you can do. But just know that the courts are very reluctant to cut one parent out of a child's life.


----------



## Miss Independent

clipclop2 said:


> By the way, there is something really messed up with these gay guys who get married.



So gays are messed up because they want to get married? Really this is the most ignorant comment I've read on TAM. 

Ariel, no judge would grant you full custody because he is gay or bi. Being gay or bi doesn't automatically make him an unfit parent. You need more to get full custody.


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## clipclop2

Pay attention Spinster. He married a woman, not a man. He used her and cheated on her. Read what I said earlier instead of taking knee jerk reactions. You must have also missed the past where he did not feed his baby girl all day, too.


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## turnera

ariel, as it is, he's not a fit parent. With lots of therapy, he could become a GREAT parent. Just not right now. Give him reason to hope that he can stay in his child's life. Right now you have all the power. Tell him to find a therapist, ask his folks to help him find one, and when you see improvement, when he stops manipulating and guilting and being controlling, you'll make arrangements for him to have access.


----------



## Miss Independent

clipclop2 said:


> Pay attention Spinster. He married a woman, not a man. He used her and cheated on her. Read what I said earlier instead of taking knee jerk reactions. You must have also missed the past where he did not feed his baby girl all day, too.



I actually did not miss the part about not feeding their daughter. 

I responded to this: 




clipclop2 said:


> By the way, there is something really messed up with these gay guys who get married. They have a huge streak of narcissism running through them. They feel entitled. They manipulate. So really, stay aware of that characteristic and remember that whenever he is making you feel bad for protecting yourself and your baby girl. He did this to himself.
> 
> Go dark. Stay dark. Everything through lawyers or third parties.
> 
> Get a VAR. Record conversations of they do happen.



In the above quote, you're not addressing the fact that he didn't feed their child. You wrote that "By the way, there is something really messed up with these gay guys who get married. They have a huge streak of narcissism running through them. They feel entitled. They manipulate." It's not a knee jerk reaction... Own up to what you wrote. 


He IS an unfit father because he didn't feed their daughter and probably brought strangers to their house. However, his sexuality doesn't make him an unfit father


----------



## clipclop2

you're right in that section I'm talking about men who marry and use women as a cover. Why don't you go around the web and read some of these guys blogs and see what I'm talking about before jumping down my throat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

clipclop2 said:


> you're right in that section *I'm talking about men who marry and use women as a cover.* Why don't you go around the web and read some of these guys blogs and see what I'm talking about before jumping down my throat.


Honestly, that's how I read it.

FTR, though, I'm not convinced that Ariel's husband is _gay_, per se. He could be bi, or he really could be "just experimenting". Though I don't really understand it, lots of young guys do that. Either way, he's displayed a remarkably poor set of decision-making skills.

"Having trouble w/ my marriage? I should probably start stepping out on my wife, and in such a way that gives her cause to question both my sanity and sexuality."

But then... ^this assumes that he hasn't been messing around before now, which seems pretty unlikely.

And I'm sorry, but whether straight, gay, bi, or whatever... hookups via CL? That's just nasty.


----------



## JustTired

ariel_angel77 said:


> So it's not cruel that I want to have full custody of my child? He like freaked out when I suggested it. Also this is really hard. This is my first night that I'm really alone. It feels like rock bottom & like I'll never get out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It was MORE cruel of him when he didn't feed his own child for over 8 hours.


----------



## turnera

ariel, this isn't the end of your world as you know it. IMO, he's immature, untrained in how to be a good, caring person, and makes rash mistakes. But he can learn. But he WON'T learn if he's with you. He has no reason to change if you allow him to stay. That's just basic psychology. Let him stay with his parents while he gets therapy. Even go to therapy together if you want, as well. Let him see what healthy choices look like with the help of the therapists. See what happens. Don't go all banshee on him. _Just don't let him stay with you._ That should be enough to set him on the right path.


----------



## ariel_angel77

turnera said:


> ariel, this isn't the end of your world as you know it. IMO, he's immature, untrained in how to be a good, caring person, and makes rash mistakes. But he can learn. But he WON'T learn if he's with you. He has no reason to change if you allow him to stay. That's just basic psychology. Let him stay with his parents while he gets therapy. Even go to therapy together if you want, as well. Let him see what healthy choices look like with the help of the therapists. See what happens. Don't go all banshee on him. _Just don't let him stay with you._ That should be enough to set him on the right path.


He told me that if I don't let him back into the house, he is never working it out with me & he is moving to his grandma's house for good. I even offered marriage counseling while living apart, but no, not good enough unless he can stay at the apartment. Like, whether he wants to work it out or not is based on whether I let him stay at the apartment.


----------



## ariel_angel77

spinsterdurga said:


> So gays are messed up because they want to get married? Really this is the most ignorant comment I've read on TAM.
> 
> Ariel, no judge would grant you full custody because he is gay or bi. Being gay or bi doesn't automatically make him an unfit parent. You need more to get full custody.


This is so not the case at all. I don't care who is gay and gets married. But if my husband married me knowing he was gay or that he couldn't be satisfied by just a woman, THAT'S messed up. It's also messed up that he invited these strangers into my home and endangered my daughter's and my safety. It's also messed up that he neglects her. So no, it's not about the gay thing. It's everything else that makes him an unfit parent.


----------



## JustTired

ariel_angel77 said:


> He told me that if I don't let him back into the house, he is never working it out with me & he is moving to his grandma's house for good. I even offered marriage counseling while living apart, but no, not good enough unless he can stay at the apartment. Like, whether he wants to work it out or not is based on whether I let him stay at the apartment.


Don't let him call the shots. Take your power back.

ETA:
Ariel, I would suggest for you to go to court now & establish custody/visitation. At the moment, nothing is established & your husband can take your daughter & the law can't do much about it.


----------



## turnera

Aww, poor baby. Can't make people do what he wants, can he?

You KNOW that's the wrong answer, right? You know that him demanding that of you is NOTHING like considering YOUR needs, and EVERYTHING about him controlling the situation and extorting you. He's saying that if you don't take him now, on his terms, you won't get him at all. Call his bluff. Tell him you have what you need right now. Make him EARN you back.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ariel_angel77 said:


> He told me that if I don't let him back into the house, he is never working it out with me & he is moving to his grandma's house for good. I even offered marriage counseling while living apart, but no, not good enough unless he can stay at the apartment. Like, whether he wants to work it out or not is based on whether I let him stay at the apartment.


GOOD! Let him GO and STAY GONE! Why in the HELL would you even CONSIDER MC??


----------



## Almostrecovered

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odcCzb-h3Fo


----------



## Openminded

Why would you offer MC? Why does he think he can threaten not working it out if he doesn't get to stay in the apartment? I thought you were done even before finding out he likes guys. If he's bi/gay that's obviously not something that will ever go away.


----------



## PBear

ariel_angel77 said:


> He told me that if I don't let him back into the house, he is never working it out with me & he is moving to his grandma's house for good. I even offered marriage counseling while living apart, but no, not good enough unless he can stay at the apartment. Like, whether he wants to work it out or not is based on whether I let him stay at the apartment.


Correct response... "Ok, bye. Leave the key on the table, please"

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

ariel_angel77 said:


> *He told me that if I don't let him back into the house, he is never working it out with me & he is moving to his grandma's house for good.* I even offered marriage counseling while living apart, but no, not good enough unless he can stay at the apartment. Like, whether he wants to work it out or not is based on whether I let him stay at the apartment.


:lol:

Acceptable responses would've been...

"Where do I sign?!?"

"Tell your grandma I said hello."

"Will your boyfriend be moving in w/ you?"


----------



## Almostrecovered

if I recall your big line in the sand wasn't the abuse but if he cheated due to your belief system

well he crossed it


----------



## ariel_angel77

GusPolinski said:


> "Will your boyfriend be moving in w/ you?"


:lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl:


----------



## ariel_angel77

3Xnocharm said:


> GOOD! Let him GO and STAY GONE! Why in the HELL would you even CONSIDER MC??


I was mainly responding to Turnera about saying he should prove himself through marriage counseling. No, I don't ever want to be with him again & haven't since the abuse. Now I just feel more confident in my decision that he's saying if I don't let him move back in, he doesn't want to work it out.


----------



## ariel_angel77

Openminded said:


> Why would you offer MC? Why does he think he can threaten not working it out if he doesn't get to stay in the apartment? I thought you were done even before finding out he likes guys.


Yes, I was done. I was just holding onto threads because of my religion. Now I have no reason whatsoever to ever reconcile anytime in the future.


----------



## ariel_angel77

Oh...guys....he's also telling ME that I'M a bad parent because of kicking him out, because it's creating an unstable and confusing environment for our daughter.


----------



## GusPolinski

Almostrecovered said:


> if I recall your big line in the sand wasn't the abuse but if he cheated due to your belief system
> 
> well he crossed it


Well said.


----------



## turnera

Oh please.

Did I ever tell you about the abuse/control cycles? The controller is fine with things going his way, until the partner stands up for herself. Once faced with that, the controller will then typically go through the 'cycle' in an attempt to regain the control over the partner. The cycle usually includes:
anger - how dare you
guilt - I can't eat, sleep
sweetness - don't you remember how good I was to you?
negotiation - if you just let me come home, I'll do everything you ask
manipulation - you're just an unfit mother and everyone knows it
derision - you're lucky I even took you in; no one else would even have you
threats - if you don't let me come home, you'll be sorry

And back to anger - or whatever else in that cycle seemed to work best on you. Notice how he keeps switching around? That's the cycle. He's throwing out every type of maneuver to see which on sticks, which one _makes you cave._ It has nothing to do with you or what he's learned or whether he intends to change. It's just to regain control. Meaning, nothing will change once you let him come home except for one thing: he'll know better next time how to keep you from getting uppity and you'll be less able to resist.


----------



## GusPolinski

ariel_angel77 said:


> Oh...guys....he's also telling ME that I'M a bad parent because of kicking him out, because it's creating an unstable and confusing environment for our daughter.


Pssh... what would she really be missing out on? All of the strange men that wouldn't by coming by your apartment for hookups? All of the food, attention, and consideration for her future and well-being that he's currently not providing?

More importantly, why are you even listening to him at this point?


----------



## turnera

And besides, she's a baby. She barely recognizes faces let alone feels abandonment.


----------



## ariel_angel77

GusPolinski said:


> Pssh... what would she really be missing out on? All of the strange men that wouldn't by coming by your apartment for hookups? All of the food, attention, and consideration for her future and well-being that he's currently not providing?
> 
> More importantly, why are you even listening to him at this point?


I HAVE to talk to him because of DD......then he just slips the rest in. But I'll work on not letting it get to me.


----------



## turnera

She's a baby. Why do you have to talk to him? And I know plenty of divorcing women who just set up a Google Calendar account or cozi account and all vital information about the children is placed on the calendar, emails are exchanged about tradeoffs, and the couple never have to speak. And if they arrange another person for a go-between, like a parent, they never even have to SEE each other again.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> He told me that if I don't let him back into the house, he is never working it out with me & he is moving to his grandma's house for good. I even offered marriage counseling while living apart, but no, not good enough unless he can stay at the apartment. Like, whether he wants to work it out or not is based on whether I let him stay at the apartment.


Emotional Blackmail


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> I HAVE to talk to him because of DD......then he just slips the rest in. But I'll work on not letting it get to me.


H, please do not speak any longer about my personhood. You forfeited that right by your poor behavioral choices. I must go now and create the quiet peaceful SAFE home our daughter deserves. I'm hanging up now. click.


----------



## Miss Independent

ariel_angel77 said:


> But if my husband married me knowing he was gay or that he couldn't be satisfied by just a woman, THAT'S messed up.



I agree it's messed up; however, it doesn't make him an unfit parent. 




ariel_angel77 said:


> It's also messed up that he invited these strangers into my home and endangered my daughter's and my safety. It's also messed up that he neglects her.



This makes him an unfit father. 

However the first one doesn't make him an unfit dad.


----------



## clipclop2

Why are you arguing a point nobody else is arguing?


----------



## Openminded

He's apparently had success in manipulating you in the past. If you are going to get through this without constant waffling then you need to seriously limit communication -- as has been suggested several times before. Nothing good comes from talking to someone who can manipulate you. 

I hope your family members who were so opposed to the divorce no longer are -- assuming you've shared the new information with them.


----------



## clipclop2

I think it's important that you let the people in your life who are close to you know what's going on so that they can support you. I realize that you don't want to wreck his life but at some point you're going to have to choose your life and your child over him. And if your family is not being supportive because I don't understand gravity of the situation will help you.

all that of course depends on the type family you have. There will be some people who will be supportive and other people who will be jerks and other people blabbermouth so you have to choose carefully.


----------



## ariel_angel77

You guys are right about the manipulation. Turnera you were totally right about the cycles. When I took him back to his grandmas to stay, the whole ride there he was very flirtatious and making sexual remarks & saying he really hoped we could work things out later on. He then talked about getting a job & saving up for a place for DD & I to come stay with him at the end of my school semester. When I dropped him off, he tried to kiss me several times.

SO not talking to him anymore. How can you be that manipulative to someone??


----------



## happy as a clam

ariel_angel77 said:


> SO not talking to him anymore. How can you be that manipulative to someone??


Good job ariel. Keep on "not talking to him anymore."

And the quick answer to your question... manipulators really CAN be that manipulative to others.


----------



## turnera

I'm really glad you were able to recognize it. That's key.


----------



## PBear

What I don't get is why you were giving him a ride to his grandmother's place... But his being gone is the important thing. Good job on that.

C


----------



## clipclop2

If he were also threatening and abusive he'd be just like looking for clarity's husband . 

something they have in common is possible sexual addiction and a whole lot of delusional thinking


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## Blossom Leigh

The book Emotional Blackmail will solidify this for you. 

Got it and reading it already?


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## Kylie84

I agree with PP- H sounds to be very immature on many accounts for his age. Too bad for you and his daughter.
I also agree with posters who urge you to go to court to organize visitation etc with him, that way you will very rarely need to communicate to him directly. If at any point you have to discuss your daughter with him, make it clear at the beginning of the conversation you will ONLY discuss your daughter, if he tries to discuss your relationship you will hang up the phone. Oh and might be a good idea to record phone conversations from now on just in case he starts threatening you, clearly he is unstable so you need to protect yourself and bubs


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## ariel_angel77

Blossom Leigh said:


> The book Emotional Blackmail will solidify this for you.
> 
> Got it and reading it already?


As soon as I have money for something other than food & groceries. I am super struggling right now. My bank account is $400 in the hole.


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## turnera

ariel_angel77 said:


> As soon as I have money for something other than food & groceries. I am super struggling right now. My bank account is $400 in the hole.


When I was in college, I made extra money by editing other people's papers. Maybe you could come up with things like that.


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## clipclop2

You might be able to borrow it from the library... Maybe even electronically.


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## Blossom Leigh

Thank you Clip Clop... I bet she could get it at a library or electronically free... check it out and see.


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## GusPolinski

Is this it...?

Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You: Susan Forward, Donna Frazier: 9780060928971: Amazon.com: Books


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## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> Is this it...?
> 
> Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You: Susan Forward, Donna Frazier: 9780060928971: Amazon.com: Books


Yes


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## sunvalley

ariel_angel77 said:


> You guys are right about the manipulation. Turnera you were totally right about the cycles. When I took him back to his grandmas to stay, the whole ride there he was very flirtatious and making sexual remarks & saying he really hoped we could work things out later on. He then talked about getting a job & saving up for a place for DD & I to come stay with him at the end of my school semester. When I dropped him off, he tried to kiss me several times.
> 
> SO not talking to him anymore. *How can you be that manipulative to someone??*


Unfortunately, Ariel, right now it's not worth it to ask about the "how." That's who and what he is. A manipulator, cheater and liar whose old tricks aren't working. And good for you that you're recognizing the signs and keeping him away. He is not worth it.

The important thing is to focus on yourself, your daughter, and your schooling. And, getting a divorce from this guy.



turnera said:


> The controller is fine with things going his way, until the partner stands up for herself. Once faced with that, the controller will then typically go through the 'cycle' in an attempt to regain the control over the partner. The cycle usually includes:
> 
> anger - how dare you
> guilt - I can't eat, sleep
> sweetness - don't you remember how good I was to you?
> negotiation - if you just let me come home, I'll do everything you ask
> manipulation - you're just an unfit mother and everyone knows it
> derision - you're lucky I even took you in; no one else would even have you
> threats - if you don't let me come home, you'll be sorry
> 
> And back to anger - or whatever else in that cycle seemed to work best on you. Notice how he keeps switching around? That's the cycle. _He's throwing out every type of maneuver to see which one sticks, which one makes you cave._


:iagree: Oh yeah. He's cycling through ALL of these. Stay strong! You can do this.

And trust me, you are NOT creating a bad environment for your daughter by throwing him out. HE brought that on himself with bringing strangers around, not feeding her for eight hours, and Lord know what else. He's full of it.


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## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> You guys are right about the manipulation. Turnera you were totally right about the cycles. When I took him back to his grandmas to stay, the whole ride there he was very flirtatious and making sexual remarks & saying he really hoped we could work things out later on. He then talked about getting a job & saving up for a place for DD & I to come stay with him at the end of my school semester. When I dropped him off, he tried to kiss me several times.
> 
> SO not talking to him anymore. How can you be that manipulative to someone??


Good. You have to stop talking to him. He's a piece for work. It sounds like he's gotten along in life on his charm. But now you see who he really is.


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## Blossom Leigh

How are you feeding your daughter when you are out of money? 

Are you at school on scholarship or student loans?


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## Mary May & Bobby

I hadn't read your posts prior but either way this resonated with me because of a situation my family is going through at the moment. All I can say is, good job! I'm glad you gathered the courage. He made it easy on you by not feeding the baby but still, good for you. 

You said you were helped by a friend who is going through the same thing. That may be the best part. Friends are one of the best wealths in this world. And seems like your family is behind you, too. That's all you can ask for to appease the pain. 

Letting go of things we've become accustomed to can be hard. Customs are stronger than love sometimes. Either way, stay strong! You have your friends, your family, and your distant, yet close friends from this forum! 

Stay strong!


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## Anonymous07

Blossom Leigh said:


> How are you feeding your daughter when you are out of money?


I'm not sure about your area OP, but where I live, there are different churches that have food banks where you can go get the basics(food/groceries) for free. I worked at a free pregnancy clinic and we would give the women/girls a listing of free services for them(food bank included in that listing). Maybe Google "free pregnancy clinic" in your area and ask about groups they partner with that can be of help to you. That way you can save money on food/groceries for now.


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## EleGirl

ariel_angel77 said:


> As soon as I have money for something other than food & groceries. I am super struggling right now. My bank account is $400 in the hole.


Have you checked to see if you can get some food stamps/EBT and even welfare?


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## clipclop2

Or if his family who he is mooching from can contribute.


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## turnera

Did he move back in?


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## ariel_angel77

I'll try to reach all the questions. I am able to buy food and gas because my grandfather sent me a Walmart credit card. I am paying for my schooling & apartment through grants and loans. I did apply for Foodstamps & I'm applying for Welfare Monday. I also applied for subsidized daycare. No, he is not moved back in & he never will be. He's living with his grandmother.


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## Blossom Leigh

Do you work?


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## turnera

You'll be fine, ariel - only up from here. Don't forget to check with your school's assistance office; they can help you with lots of things.


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## ariel_angel77

No. Searching frantically for a job.


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## Blossom Leigh

Fyi, many companies offer tuition reimbursement. Its how I got my degree. I was in the mortgage business from the age of 19 and put myself through college by using my income for tuition and the bank would reimburse me based on grades. Graduated loan free


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## Anonymous07

Blossom Leigh said:


> Fyi, many companies offer tuition reimbursement. Its how I got my degree. I was in the mortgage business from the age of 19 and put myself through college by using my income for tuition and the bank would reimburse me based on grades. Graduated loan free


I only know of banks that offer tuition reimbursement, as that is how my husband paid for most of his degree, but I don't know of any other places that offer that(retail jobs don't do that). It is a good way to go about paying for school though, if you can get a job in banking. 

Until you get a job, look into food banks and other places where you can get necessities for free. You don't want to put yourself too far into the whole(debt) in the mean time. 

For childcare, sometimes it's a lot cheaper to pay a nanny vs a daycare, which may be something to look into.


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## turnera

ariel, what degree are you getting?


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## ariel_angel77

Sociology with a Family Studies minor


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## Blossom Leigh

What are your plans for it?


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## ariel_angel77

I want to be a marriage counselor & a CFLE (Certified Family Life Educator).


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## clipclop2

You can come here and do it for free! ;-)


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## sunvalley

clipclop2 said:


> You can come here and do it for free! ;-)


:rofl::rofl: You crack me up sometimes, ClipClop!


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## clipclop2

I'm pretty sure we get college credit for this... at least that is what I tell my husband to justify my time here,


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## EleGirl

clipclop2 said:


> I'm pretty sure we get college credit for this... at least that is what I tell my husband to justify my time here,


Give new meaning to 'on-line university'


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## Blossom Leigh

Op, how are you feeling about that direction now given your private situation?


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## ariel_angel77

Blossom Leigh said:


> Op, how are you feeling about that direction now given your private situation?


I still want to do that profession. The fact that I experienced domestic abuse and am having to divorce because of it doesn't change my feelings about wanting to help others & help prevent divorce.


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## Blossom Leigh

ariel_angel77 said:


> I still want to do that profession. The fact that I experienced domestic abuse and am having to divorce because of it doesn't change my feelings about wanting to help others & help prevent divorce.


What's your main reason for wanting to prevent divorce?


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## ariel_angel77

So, I'm having a really hard time concentrating on anything. I really cannot concentrate on anything hardly at all. I made a D on my first two college tests. I went by my professor's office and explained to her what was going on. She said that when going through a major traumatic event like that, there's no way someone can concentrate on their school work. So she suggested I withdraw for the semester so that I can take time to deal with this. I'm not sure what to do. I want to continue school, because I feel like it keeps me from becoming depressed. If I do continue, what are some ways that I can help concentrate better?


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## ariel_angel77

Blossom Leigh said:


> What's your main reason for wanting to prevent divorce?


I don't want people to experience divorce when it was unnecessary and could have been helped with professional counsel.


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## Blossom Leigh

There isn't harm for withdrawing for a limited time. Check your hospitals for tuition reimbursment in their social services area  Some hospitals offer it.


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## turnera

When DD24 was preparing for her GRE exam, she set up an hour-by-hour calendar and printed it out. It helped her keep her mind focused, knowing that she had another thing waiting for her the next hour. Even if she messed up one hour, she knew something else would be taken care of the next hour. 

Are you seeing the college therapist?


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## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> There isn't harm for withdrawing for a limited time. Check your hospitals for tuition reimbursment in their social services area  Some hospitals offer it.


Wait... tuition reimbursement for non-employees?


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## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> Wait... tuition reimbursement for non-employees?


I think she meant for Angel to check there for a job. Then once she has a job she can get tuition reimbursement.


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## clipclop2

if you are in the u.s there are several ways to get college credit on the cheap. CLEP tests .

withdrawing might be better than getting a lousy cumulative average. 

it sucks to lose the money but there are ways that you can get credit at least. You still need to make up your cume in other ways..


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## Blossom Leigh

EleGirl said:


> I think she meant for Angel to check there for a job. Then once she has a job she can get tuition reimbursement.


Correct. Sorry it wasn't clear. Sometimes I bottomline too much.


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## turnera

I will tell you that DD24 got a couple Ds and an F her first couple years of college and never went back and retook the classes - now she graduated with a 2.87 and can't ever make that up; it's hurting her now, now that she's trying to get into grad school for psychology, and there are so few openings for Masters and PhD programs. And I'm sure you know, you can't even GET a job in psychology without at least a Masters. So not dropping those classes has really hurt her chances. Maybe you could drop to 2 classes, work part time, and clear your head.


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## Miss Independent

turnera said:


> I will tell you that DD24 got a couple Ds and an F her first couple years of college and never went back and retook the classes - now she graduated with a 2.87 and can't ever make that up; it's hurting her now, now that she's trying to get into grad school for psychology, and there are so few openings for Masters and PhD programs. And I'm sure you know, you can't even GET a job in psychology without at least a Masters. So not dropping those classes has really hurt her chances. Maybe you could drop to 2 classes, work part time, and clear your head.



I agree with Turnera. I'm 21 like you and go to college. It's better to drop a class than get a D or F. It's not easy to bring a 2.5 GPA to a 3.0


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## ariel_angel77

Well, it's decided. I'm withdrawing & moving back to mom's. That way I'll have someone to watch DD while I go to work & school. Plus I get my November & December rent back ($1400 altogether) so that I can pay for the divorce and a couple of bills.


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## turnera

Best choice, all things considered. Just make sure you DO show up in January!


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## clipclop2

Good job!


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## doubletrouble

It's not what you wanted, but then none of this is what you wanted. Sometimes it's the best thing to retreat so you can fight again another day.


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## EleGirl

Good plan. This is all just too much right now. You now have some time now to get things together for next semester.


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## Blossom Leigh

Just for the future when you are entertaining your degree again, I am seeing a few companies out there who offer tuition reimbursement programs for social services degrees if you are in their human resource departments.


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