# Take charge



## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

I know everyone’s circumstances are different, and I don’t mean to generalize here. After spending a year on this site and seeing all of the heart-wrenching, soul-crushing scenarios that so many good people have endured, I feel pretty strongly that most of the stories told here will share the same sad ending. 

For the blindsided, faithful spouse: There are many things you can come-back from in a marriage, but infidelity is not one of them. An EA will almost certainly become a PA. Once they cheat, it becomes easier the next time. Your spouse will begin to believe the lies he or she has told you, and become genuinely upset when you push-back or question them. They will back-into reasons why they did what they did (which are almost always your fault), they will revise history and tell you that they cheated because YOU left them no choice, YOU didn’t pay enough attention, etc... To be fair, there are most likely things you have done to add to their unhappiness. This does not give them the right to cheat on you. They are further empowered by the person they are cheating on you with, who will undoubtedly agree and support their warped view of things. 

I caught my wife, she swore it was over and deleted him as a friend on Facebook. Of course, she just created a phony account to continue the affair underground. Facebook is evil! There are so many games and applications that allow texting, you can never really control or monitor it. Which begs the question, do you really want to spend the rest of your life checking her email/Facebook/phone? What kind of life is that?

Here is what worked for me. I hadn’t been happy for a long time, but never felt it was hopeless. I went to IC to see if my expectations were unreasonable. I specifically sought-out a female therapist. Once I began to vent, I realized that I had settled for a mediocre, mundane life. That is on-me. I also realized I could have done some things better or differently. Don’t expect your spouse to come to their senses. They wont. You have to become angry that someone could treat you so badly. Don’t blame yourself, just vow to make you a better you. Don’t let it the anger become venomous, but use it as fuel to push you through this. You have to become Spock-like. No emotion. Get in shape; go out with friends, laugh, and bond with your kids. This is where the 180 has tremendous value. For you only. It won’t bring them back. 

I have two kids that are going to be affected. I know they will be ok, we’ll both be in their lives. I am so genuinely excited about the future. I feel more alive than ever. My wife, she has hitched her wagon to a divorced clown with three kids who lives at home with his mother. (I might have a different view if it was a doctor or lawyer! ) Never, ever settle. So many people get hung up on the vows, or the “but I love her/him”. I think a lot of times this translates to “I don’t know any other way and this is what I’m supposed to feel”. It’s not. Don’t stay because of kids, and don’t stay because you think you have to. Don’t allow yourself to become plan B. Once your spouse cheats, the rules change. In your favor….

I don’t mean to pontificate, and I realize some people can forgive an move on. Pain can be turned into new beginnings…


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Facebook, Twitter, Myspace, these are not evil. However, like all technologies, they can be exploited to bad ends.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Matt Matt, what are you doing up at this time!

And George, yes I agree, all things have to turn to a positive. All bad things are an education. I am so glad in so many ways that I am now an educated person in what is what with infidelity...but most importantly lying, manipulation, what I will and what I won't put up with. This last year has been a truly eye opening and educational experience.

And all turns out ok in the end!


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

I have to agree with you it's always hard the first time. I just hope it's different in my case.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Truer words were never spoken; you said it better than I ever could. Every BS here should read your posting, including those who are considering reconciliation or consider themselves reconciled. People here are dealing with such pain, trying to put back together marriages that have been pissed on by their spouses and destroying what's left of their self respect in the process.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

George, there are a lot of generalities in your post. Check out a thread called "Reconciliation." They are not all success stories, but there are many, and those who've not been successful are still working on it. 

A marriage is not hopeless after an affair.


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## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

Hope Springs, that is why I said everyone has different circumstances in my opening sentence. I don't believe anything is ever really hopeless. I took your advice and visited that thread, and it really just reaffirms how I feel. Lots of tortured souls hoping, wanting, and praying for a reconciliation that never seems to come. So very few actually achieving it. I do think it is important to try, so if it is the end, you know you have given it every opportunity to work. I'm glad that I did.

Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder what exactly these people hope to save? The time to try and save things is before someone gives up and cheats. Now add in an affair on top of the pre-existing problems that opened the door to the cheating. Not a very promising landscape IMHO. I think many feel it's easier to try and repair what has been most comfortable and familar to them for so many years. I totally understand that feeling. Who the heck wants start from scratch again?

I'm sure some people much better than myself can truly forgive. Do they sleep as peacefully as they did before the affair? I'll bet they don't. How could they? Can you ever really look at the cheating spouse the same way again?

I swore I wouldn't become "bitter divorced guy". I believe in miracles, love and marriage. I root for the underdog. I just think I see a pattern in all of these sad, sad stories... This is a very humbling road to travel.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Furious George said:


> ..... I wonder what exactly these people hope to save? The time to try and save things is before someone gives up and cheats. Now add in an affair on top of the pre-existing problems that opened the door to the cheating. Not a very promising landscape IMHO. I think many feel it's easier to try and repair what has been most comfortable and familar to them for so many years. I totally understand that feeling. Who the heck wants start from scratch again?
> 
> I'm sure some people much better than myself can truly forgive. Do they sleep as peacefully as they did before the affair? I'll bet they don't. How could they? Can you ever really look at the cheating spouse the same way again? .....


Astute observations.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

So is your opinion the same wether it is purely a physical affair or purely an emotional affair?


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## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

An emotional affair is a physical affair waiting to happen. It starts as what the future cheater considers harmless flirting, then sharing problems and intimate secrets, inside jokes, etc.. The natural progression is for it to become physical. In some ways, the EA seems almost more intimate/offensive, as weird as that sounds... What do I know? If I was so smart, I wouldn't be here... Just venting, I guess...


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Truer words were never spoken; you said it better than I ever could. Every BS here should read your posting, including those who are considering reconciliation or consider themselves reconciled. People here are dealing with such pain, trying to put back together marriages that have been pissed on by their spouses and destroying what's left of their self respect in the process.


Gee, thanks. Now excuse me while I go back to destroying my self respect.



I came back, my marriage is the best it has been, and I feel pretty good about myself and my wife. Doesn't work for everyone, but why do you need to tear down those of us who successfully reconcile?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I think it's funny when people who choose not to reconcile think it's impossible to do so. There are quite a few people on here that have done it. 

However, I completely respect those that don't want to try and decide infidelity is too much to overcome. 

For example, BS's that continue to reconcile with serial cheaters (defined as cheating 2x or more) are people I do not understand. However one ONS, or an EA that never got physical. That, to me, is a salvagable situation in many cases.


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## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

I don't want to make assumptions without knowing the details of your situation. I also don't want to speak for Middleman, but I think you may have misinterpreted his message. There are so many possible scenarios regarding infidelity experiences, there will always be exceptions to the rule. If it is working for you, great. I would encourage you to share what worked if you are comfortable with that. However, I think the successes are few and far between, just based on the threads on TAM. I would be curious to know where your trust level is now. Do you share passwords, check her email, etc..?


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## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

Gabriel, I don't think it is impossible. I just think people confuse living with or accepting the infidelity with actually truly forgiving that it happened. I really believe you can say all the right things (i forgive, lets get by this), but it is ALWAYS going to be there. It can be ignored, but it will always be lurking somewhere in your mind or heart. It's just human nature...


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Furious George said:


> I don't want to make assumptions without knowing the details of your situation. I also don't want to speak for Middleman, but I think you may have misinterpreted his message. There are so many possible scenarios regarding infidelity experiences, there will always be exceptions to the rule. If it is working for you, great. I would encourage you to share what worked if you are comfortable with that. However, I think the successes are few and far between, just based on the threads on TAM. I would be curious to know where your trust level is now. Do you share passwords, check her email, etc..?


My story is too long and too old to rehash fully. We are working through things. So far, I'm glad we are. Starting over doesn't appeal to me at this stage. But who knows what will happen. My eyes are more wide open, I'm more mature as a partner. That also means that if we end up not making it, I'll be fine. But I'd rather work it out. I've laid down the law and respect myself just fine. But I'm also prepared to leave the marriage if need be.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Gabriel, I don't think it is impossible. I just think people confuse living with or accepting the infidelity with actually truly forgiving that it happened. I really believe you can say all the right things (i forgive, lets get by this), but it is ALWAYS going to be there. It can be ignored, but it will always be lurking somewhere in your mind or heart. It's just human nature...


FG, of course it's always there somewhere. Bottom line is you make a choice, a bet with yourself. I decided to put the rest of my chips in one more time with my marriage, given I am pot-committed to it. I've invested lots of love, money, time, energy into my wife and she with me. We've decided to let it ride rather than get new cards, because we both know we like what we have. Pain is there (and decreasing all the time), but it would be there anyway if we divorced, plus more, new pains would be added.

At the same time, if she got too close with some other guy after all of this, it would be very easy for me to let her go. But I really don't think she would do that again, given the rough road we've survived thus far.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Furious George said:


> Hope Springs, that is why I said everyone has different circumstances in my opening sentence. I don't believe anything is ever really hopeless. I took your advice and visited that thread, and it really just reaffirms how I feel. Lots of tortured souls hoping, wanting, and praying for a reconciliation that never seems to come. So very few actually achieving it. I do think it is important to try, so if it is the end, you know you have given it every opportunity to work. I'm glad that I did.
> 
> Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder what exactly these people hope to save? The time to try and save things is before someone gives up and cheats. Now add in an affair on top of the pre-existing problems that opened the door to the cheating. Not a very promising landscape IMHO. I think many feel it's easier to try and repair what has been most comfortable and familar to them for so many years. I totally understand that feeling. Who the heck wants start from scratch again?
> 
> ...


My bottom line.

The affair still hurts, but she is worth the pain. The joy outweighs it.

I judge the risk of her cheating again to be less than the risk of someone new cheating or otherwise not working out.

This is all incredibly personal to my situation, and would certainly not apply to everyone who gets cheated on.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Wazza said:


> I judge the risk of her cheating again to be less than the risk of someone new cheating or otherwise not working out.


How does that work? Logically speaking.


Is it that you either refuse to believe that there are better women out there or do you believe yourself incapable of attracting such women?

Btw, i'm very pro marriage.... just so long as someone doesn't defecate all over it by having an affair.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Hope Springs Eternal said:


> George, there are a lot of generalities in your post. Check out a thread called "Reconciliation." They are not all success stories, but there are many, and those who've not been successful are still working on it.
> 
> A marriage is not hopeless after an affair.


The people posting in that thread are still only months out from DDay. So far I've seen only a handful of people who are years out of the affair and seem to be doing fineon this site. Want to ask me how many aren't successfully reconciled?

Truth is there are many who are willing to reconcile, sadly, willingness does not lead to a favorable outcome.

"A marriage is not hopeless after an affair"

Greatest lie ever sold by marital therapists. A marriage is absolutely sh!tty after an affair, its not even a marriage anymore. That statement is said time and time again so counselors can milk money out of their clients whilst giving them crappy advice.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> How does that work? Logically speaking.
> 
> 
> Is it that you either refuse to believe that there are better women out there or do you believe yourself incapable of attracting such women?
> ...


The way you pose the question implies that I am being illogical, that I am deliberately not accepting the many better choices that are out there, or that I think I am the ugliest man since Quasimodo. I don't accept your premise.

I have never met a better woman, by my tastes. They may be out there, but I haven't met one. I have met other women I could have a relationship with, but none I would prefer to my wife. This is personal taste. She is a human being who happens to be deeply compatible with me. The relationship works. I also think she is stunningly beautiful and amazing, though you might not. Were I to divorce, my desire would be for the next relationship to just be close to as good as what I have.

Not particularly worried about attracting other women. I have had my share of interested females over the years.

I believe some people have a conscience, but fall into affairs because they get caught up in circumstances and don't know how to handle them, while others really think cheating is perfectly acceptable. My wife is definitely in the first group, and I believe she has learned from her mistake and is unlikely to repeat it. Therefore she is a better risk than someone who is yet to make the mistake, or find that the next partner believes in cheating and manages to hide that from me.

Nothing excuses her affair. She knows that. But I will give her credit for the hard yards she has done in rebuilding over many years.

As a side comment, I am older. I have children and grandchildren with my wife and a lifetime of shared experiences and memories. I wouldn't stay in a bad marriage just for that, but even if I met another equally good partner I can never have those same shared experiences.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Fair point, but there are better women out there all you have to do is believe that you deserve better and you need to commit completely to finding a new partner, you have to believe that a cheating spouse, no matter how good a spouse she is or was, is completely and utterly replaceable.

As I said earlier yours is one among a handful who are successfully reconciled years after the revelation of an affair.

I'm older too, which is why the discovery of an affair would make me feel that those memories were tainted forever.

The only point I'm trying to make here is that if reconciliation is the goal both parties need to be willing, yes, but the WS needs to want it 10x more than the BS, which is hardly ever the case. In fact the opposite is more likely.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Fair point, but there are better women out there all you have to do is believe that you deserve better and you need to commit completely to finding a new partner, you have to believe that a cheating spouse, no matter how good a spouse she is or was, is completely and utterly replaceable.
> 
> As I said earlier yours is one among a handful who are successfully reconciled years after the revelation of an affair.
> 
> ...


What constitutes "better women"? If your definition includes "have never cheated" as a mandatory requirement, then I get your logic. Otherwise, how can you possibly know?

I am not actively looking. I am happy with who I have.

As for the number who reconcile, I have never seen reliable statistics. But I wouldn't personally seek to derive them by counting long term success stories on TAM. I don't think I could stay around here if I weren't really solid in my marriage...some of the stories are too painful.

Your comment about tainted memories is real and very painful, but I got over it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Steps to Recover from an affair/infidelity in marriage


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

I was a great believer in R. I tried it many times with her and if it wasn't for my bond type interceptions it would have been many more times too..
I got crapped on from a great height!.


EA. Yes. A man can recover. I am not so sure women see this as recoverable.

PA. Women seem to give this slightly less weight than an EA. For men it is often a deal breaker. 

EA AND PA.
Pretty much checked out of the marriage by then and a recovery is hard when your SO was "in love" 

LTA x 2 .
What is left to save?

mainly though it takes two to R. Mostly there is only one..


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

ing said:


> it takes two to R.


:iagree:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Gabriel, I don't think it is impossible. I just think people confuse living with or accepting the infidelity with actually truly forgiving that it happened. I really believe you can say all the right things (i forgive, lets get by this), but it is ALWAYS going to be there. It can be ignored, but it will always be lurking somewhere in your mind or heart. It's just human nature...


It's completely possible to put not only forgive infidelity but to get to a point at which it is no longer an issue. Sure the BS still has the memory of it, but seldom thinks of it and the memory has no power to cause pain any more.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

I've been here since August '12. I only posted the beginning of my story back then, and then simply lurked and followed the advice I saw given to people with similar circumstances. I guess I never felt the need to come here and vent.

Anyways, after reading through countless stories, I think the OP is spot on when he says "take charge". The best outcome, whether it results in D or R, occurs when the BS takes charge and draws a hard line. The BS can't control the cheating spouse, only him/herself.

If you look at the stories of people who had relatively quick outcomes (either D or beginning R), the authors were those people who already had high self-respect. For example, look at the threads by some of these doctors (myself included). They know what they will or will not tolerate in their marriage. They act quickly, because their self-esteem is not determined by their spouse or the image of their family. I guess you could say those with fully developed "alpha" qualities (yes, women have an alpha aspect to them, too). 

It's the person who can say "I know what you are doing. It stops now, or you will lose me forever", and then lets the cheater make the choice. And then acts on their ultimatum.

Too many BS's here live through all this misery because they have let their self-esteem and identity be determined by their spouse or family. You are an individual first. That's who your partner originally fell in love with. Be that person.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I think the original post is good as it describes what worked for you. I think you are wrong about one thing though; you indicate that "taking charge" equals "divorce".

You can take charge whitin your existing relationship, and divorce doesn't guarantee future happyness. Especially not if you still not know how to take charge over your life.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Fair point, but there are better women out there all you have to do is believe that you deserve better and you need to commit completely to finding a new partner, you have to believe that a cheating spouse, no matter how good a spouse she is or was, is completely and utterly replaceable.
> 
> As I said earlier yours is one among a handful who are successfully reconciled years after the revelation of an affair.
> 
> ...



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

cpacan said:


> I think the original post is good as it describes what worked for you. I think you are wrong about one thing though; you indicate that "taking charge" equals "divorce".
> 
> You can take charge whitin your existing relationship, and divorce doesn't guarantee future happyness. Especially not if you still not know how to take charge over your life.


Doesn't the fact that the man or woman decided to divorce itself mean that they've taken charge of their lives and are willing and some times relishing the fact that they get to play the dating game again? I think FG indicates taking charge to be a person who is ready to completely take control of his life and not blame circumstances for their not having made a firm decision.

What guarantees future happiness? Nothing . But I think you have to appreciate them for their willingness to put themselves out there, just as much as a you appreciate those taking a second chance with a wayward spouse.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Furious George said:


> I know everyone’s circumstances are different,
> 
> 
> No. If you read these forums long enough the only thing different from one affair to the next is the names are different.
> ...


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Doesn't the fact that the man or woman decided to divorce itself mean that they've taken charge of their lives and are willing and some times relishing the fact that they get to play the dating game again? I think FG indicates taking charge to be a person who is ready to completely take control of his life and not blame circumstances for their not having made a firm decision.
> 
> What guarantees future happiness? Nothing . *But I think you have to appreciate them for their willingness to put themselves out there, just as much as a you appreciate those taking a second chance with a wayward spouse.*


... which was exactly my point. No size fits all.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

cpacan said:


> ... which was exactly my point. No size fits all.


To be blunt, your post gave the impression that those who try and R are better than those who know divorce.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> To be blunt, your post gave the impression that those who try and R are better than those who know divorce.


Well, sorry about that. I was just trying to defend the view of those who try to rebuild, because I feel the trend these days is to bash those who make that choice. It's almost as if I should feel stupid for trying to reconnect with my wife.

I have nothing against those who divorce immediatly - I doubt my own choice from time to time, so I am absolutly not a black or white type of person. I feel that everyone should make the choice that works best for them, whether it be D or R.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Well, sorry about that. I was just trying to defend the view of those who try to rebuild, because I feel the trend these days is to bash those who make that choice. It's almost as if I should feel stupid for trying to reconnect with my wife.
> 
> I have nothing against those who divorce immediatly - I doubt my own choice from time to time, so I am absolutly not a black or white type of person. I feel that everyone should make the choice that works best for them, whether it be D or R.


Not trying to bash anyone's choice but don't you think that it is stupid to try and reconnect with a spouse who does not want to connect at all? This is exactly what I said, there are many who are willing to give it another chance, but their partners neither have the resolve to work on R or aren't worthy of it.

And many times men and women are forced to make black and white decisions even when the situation is cloudy. For some an affair signals the end, even if it doesn't it might very well be the end because of an unwilling and remorseless spouse. Props for trying though. The only person who you can rely on in the world is you and that is the essence of taking charge.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Not trying to bash anyone's choice *but* _this little word changes that statement, don't you think?_ don't you think that it is stupid to try and reconnect with a spouse who does not want to connect at all? This is exactly what I said, there are many who are willing to give it another chance, but their partners neither have the resolve to work on R or aren't worthy of it.
> 
> And many times men and women are forced to make black and white decisions even when the situation is cloudy. For some an affair signals the end, even if it doesn't it might very well be the end because of an unwilling and remorseless spouse. Props for trying though. The only person who you can rely on in the world is you and that is the essence of taking charge.


I think I'll just leave it and concentrate on supporting those who need it.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

cpacan said:


> I think the original post is good as it describes what worked for you. I think you are wrong about one thing though; you indicate that "taking charge" equals "divorce".
> 
> You can take charge whitin your existing relationship, and divorce doesn't guarantee future happyness. Especially not if you still not know how to take charge over your life.


I completely agree with this. You can't be passive, whether D or R. In my R process, I've had a couple of stages of hard line stances. They work the best. Waffling will get you killed in a post-affair world. I know. I've lived it.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> How does that work? Logically speaking.
> 
> 
> Is it that you either refuse to believe that there are better women out there or do you believe yourself incapable of attracting such women?
> ...





BjornFree said:


> Not trying to bash anyone's choice but don't you think that it is stupid to try and reconnect with a spouse who does not want to connect at all? This is exactly what I said, there are many who are willing to give it another chance, but their partners neither have the resolve to work on R or aren't worthy of it.
> 
> And many times men and women are forced to make black and white decisions even when the situation is cloudy. For some an affair signals the end, even if it doesn't it might very well be the end because of an unwilling and remorseless spouse. Props for trying though. The only person who you can rely on in the world is you and that is the essence of taking charge.


To me your position appears inconsistent between these two posts. The first was an unconditional criticism of reconciliation after an affair, and directly bashed my choice to reconcile.

Did I misread you?


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

I don't think he is bashing you Wazza.

I think a lot of people try to R early on, and then change their minds later because it does not work out the way they hoped.

For some people, no matter how hard the WS and or BS tries, it’s not going to work. Sometimes the nightmares don’t go away. Sometimes the trust never comes back. When you choose to R, you HOPE that everything will get better. But that is all it is…… just hope. It may not.

It all depends on the individuals and the situations. But let’s face it….. R is extremely challenging and difficult. It does not matter how bad you want it.

I'm 26 or 27 months out from D-Day. I can tell you that things change over time. And your thoughts and feelings will change too....for good or bad.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

it-guy said:


> I don't think he is bashing you Wazza.
> 
> I think a lot of people try to R early on, and then change their minds later because it does not work out the way they hoped.
> 
> ...


Hey IT Guy, I used the word ash because BF used in in his second post. It is perhaps harsher than I would have used. 

I'm not sitting here crying cos big mean BjornFree bashed me. I'm contrasting the logic in two of his posts.

22 years out. If it all fell apart tomorrow I think I would still regard my reconciliation as successful.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Quote of ThreeSrtrikes
> They act quickly, because their self-esteem is not determined by their spouse or the image of their family
> 
> Too many BS's here live through all this misery because they have let their self-esteem and identity be determined by their spouse or family. You are an individual first. That's who your partner originally fell in love with. Be that person.



Very good statements I think.

However, in my case my self-esteem is affected by my spouse and family. *They are what are the most important to me and if there is failure there then it will affect my self-esteem; at least temporarily.*

Perhaps ThreeStrikes and I have no disagreement because if he meant that my whole self esteem is not determined by my wife and family then we are on the same page. Part of my self esteem is determined by my wife and family but not all.

For me I would say it this way. My wife and family cannot totally destroy my self esteem. *The core of my self esteem is determined by my actions and my faith*


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Hey IT Guy, I used the word ash because BF used in in his second post. It is perhaps harsher than I would have used.
> 
> I'm not sitting here crying cos big mean BjornFree bashed me. I'm contrasting the logic in two of his posts.
> 
> 22 years out. If it all fell apart tomorrow I think I would still regard my reconciliation as successful.


I consider it as successful. Congrats on the 22 years.


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## WonderHow (Dec 17, 2012)

I've been thinking so much about this exact topic lately.

I think for many, myself included, that an early attempt at R is based on a lot of factors: not wanting to make a drastic emotional decision, not wanting to "quit", having a strong desire to keep your family in place for the kids, etc.

What happens though is that after the emotions become less intense, you're left with making logical decisions. You're left looking at things in a less unbiased way - will i be happy 5, 10, 20+ years from now with my spouse knowing what s/he was capable of? how compatible am i still with my spouse (especially if you married in your 20s and now have grown / matured a lot since). what does the dating market look like for someone like me? what would my life be like without my kids full-time? how would it feel to sit alone on days without my kids and a partner? 

It makes it very difficult since you can't just put these on a scale and see which side outweighs the other. 

But, having said all that, the logical side of me says that all marriages are over once an affair happens. I think that's even true for people who R. The difference is they started a new relationship with an old partner, rather than starting a new relationship with a new partner. 

For many, and I am starting to think I fall in this category, there is no going back after an affair. I think even when the wayward is doing everything possible many times it's not enough. It's amazingly difficult to form a new relationship with someone who hurt you in a uniquely painful way and most people put a wall up to keep that from happening again - intentional or not. It's why you always hear you should never trust your spouse again. Trust is just another name for a wall and not a good way at all to have a relationship. 

This is starting to turn into a ramble so I'll stop now.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> "A marriage is not hopeless after an affair"
> Greatest lie ever sold by marital therapists. A marriage is absolutely sh!tty after an affair, its not even a marriage anymore. That statement is said time and time again so counselors can milk money out of their clients whilst giving them crappy advice.


I've not seen a MC in my life.
My marriage, 3 years after DDay, is way beyond hopeless but great. I'm happy I decided to give her another chance. I'm happy I fought so many times the temptation to pull the trigger early on.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

WonderHow said:


> I've been thinking so much about this exact topic lately.
> 
> I think for many, myself included, that an early attempt at R is based on a lot of factors: not wanting to make a drastic emotional decision, not wanting to "quit", having a strong desire to keep your family in place for the kids, etc.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you wrote, and add this. No one is totally trustworthy. If you leave your partner, how is someone else necessarily more trustworthy? 

To me it came down to balancing the risks.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Mr Blunt said:


> Very good statements I think.
> 
> However, in my case my self-esteem is affected by my spouse and family. *They are what are the most important to me and if there is failure there then it will affect my self-esteem; at least temporarily.*
> 
> ...


This is interesting and a big fault of mine. I have put everything I have into my family, for better or for worse. However, I am very good at being alone - I am an only child and used to that. The being alone doesn't scare me. It's the fact our unit would be no more. Though fear has not kept me here.

Now that my kids are teenagers, and their time with us is precious, I am curious as to how we manage once we are empty nesters. My W is afraid of this. I'm actually looking forward to having that kind of free time to pick up new activities.


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## WonderHow (Dec 17, 2012)

Wazza said:


> I agree with what you wrote, and add this. No one is totally trustworthy. If you leave your partner, how is someone else necessarily more trustworthy?
> 
> To me it came down to balancing the risks.


You're absolutely right about that. But I think it also speaks a lot for the argument to not stay. I know that I would be very, very careful about any future relationships. This is of course a generalization but I know that many (most?) cheaters have some common unresolved personality and / or FOO issues that led them to cheat. Looking back, I knew from the first month or two that I dated my W that the relationship she had with her mother was effed up. In the end, that among a few other things, is a big part of her reason "why". It's being resolved now and truth be told she's made tons of progress with respect to this and if I were to meet her on the street and we were both single I *may* be ok with it. But then again maybe not since I sure the hell don't want to repeat this.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

WonderHow said:


> You're absolutely right about that. But I think it also speaks a lot for the argument to not stay. I know that I would be very, very careful about any future relationships. This is of course a generalization but I know that many (most?) cheaters have some common unresolved personality and / or FOO issues that led them to cheat. Looking back, I knew from the first month or two that I dated my W that the relationship she had with her mother was effed up. In the end, that among a few other things, is a big part of her reason "why". It's being resolved now and truth be told she's made tons of progress with respect to this and if I were to meet her on the street and we were both single I *may* be ok with it. But then again maybe not since I sure the hell don't want to repeat this.


I believe that most (all) people have issues. If I don't want to risk betrayal I must live alone.

You know your wife's issues. That makes it easier to make a judgement about her.


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## ngonza (Nov 8, 2012)

Dear Furious George, Its strange after telling someone how bad it hurts here on the posts. I thought umm I need to post to everyone to TELL ME ...HOW TO JUST LET GO AND MOVE ON! AND YOUR POST CAME UP! THANKS ALOT. ITS FUNNY last night he said think positive not negative and we will be one...I thought we were one when we got married. He is a fool indeed! (MY HUSBAND). sHOULD i JUST WAIT FOR HIS NEXT MOVE? OR DUMP HIM NOW !


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## Furious George (Nov 14, 2011)

Without knowing your details, it's hard to say. What worked for me may not be the right way for you. All I can say is give it every chance to work. You may want to ask him exactly what he is going to do to repair the damage. If he can't tell you, you may have your answer right there. Hope it all works out for you...


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