# Insanity.



## JDL8787

So, I've only posted here a few times, I've mostly trolled and looked at everyone else's stories trying to gain insight into what the heck I was actually going through. My wife and I separated a little over a year ago. She's been with the OM the entire time, they were engaged, had a kid, etc, etc... Last Tuesday (Aug 13th) our divorce was officially ready to be finalized, so being that we are pretty good friends at this point I call her up and say "Hey, you know what today is right?!" and she says yes and tells me we should call the lawyers and get it all ready, so I come back with "Wow, you must be really excited to be rid of me, hahaha"

Then bam... I get "I'm not happy" "I blame myself" "I f**ked up" "I can't stand OM" "I don't want to sign the papers, I want to try this again".

I understand that an affair, even if Emotional only, is still not something to be taken lightly when considering R. But I really, really, really love this woman still. We were together since high school, had two kids together, lived in a few different states just her and I. We were inseparable, She told her mom about everything and her mother is super excited and telling her things like "you married your best friend, thats not something you just let go of."

The reason I'm getting all this out is that even though she is getting her sh*t together to leave OM's house (she's in his family's religious compound) It sure is taking a while, and I just can't shake the feelings that even though she's telling her family members that we are going to work it out, she's already hired a baby sitter for her other kid in my town, she's setting out to separate finances. I still can't shake the feeling that this might all be BS. I'm cynical by nature, I want my family back more than ANYTHING in the world... Am I just being impatient? 

She is doing things like telling OM to get a job, bringing him to interviews so he can be "self-sufficient" (he's jobless for 1+ year now, she's been supporting him) She says she's doing this for when the kid goes there he can support them and what not, but it still bothers me that she's helping this guy who treats her like a piece of garbage/ATM.

I'm not asking for judgement on her, believe me I did some things in our marriage that would make any woman cringe (nothing weird lol) What I'm asking is for some insight from women who have been in similar situations, and normal people who have this virtue they call "patience" Should I just calm down? She told me to call off the divorce and not to sign the papers, but I don't want to call anything off until she is out of that house and we are "dating" again (she's not moving back in right away)

HELP!


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## motherofone

There is that saying "if you love them, set them free". 

It has been a year, and while I can't make the decision for you on what to do, I can say be mindful of your choice. 

If you divorce and things work out then you can always remarry. If you don't and entertain reconciliation what does that mean for your divorce? Would the "clock" start all over again and two months from now you fall into old patterns and want out but have to wait again?

You cannot predict the future but you can on hindsight know your wife cheated. Patterns could repeat themselves.


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## Mavash.

Insanity is right.

Stay the course.

She will cheat again and yes it's all bs.


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## the guy

Fellow thru with the D and see what your old lady is really made of.

If this D is a consequences she can face and do the things that *you* require to get back to gether then lets see what happens.

Let her face this consequences and see if she can do the heavy lifting to get you back and re marry her.


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## the guy

WHo knows, she just might not be willing to face this consequences and find some new guy to get her out of her current relationship.

I think your wife continues to run away from the negitive instead of running towards something positive. its her means of what she uses to get what she wants.

Again I could be wrong and she faces this divorce no matter what and still wants you no matter how hard she has to work at it.

I guess folks appreciate the things they have to work hard for.


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## Pepper123

I think she just isn't happy, but is too scared to be alone and have to go out into the world
Agree to pursue D, and if you want to try again after that, so be it. Just be careful, please... Obviously there are many hearts on the line.


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## inarut

"She told me to call off the divorce and not to sign the papers, but I don't want to call anything off until she is out of that house and we are "dating" again (she's not moving back in right away)"

Don't call off anything.....don't do a damn thing until she is free, clear and done with anything having to do with this other man! Then maybe you can start to date her and you can slowly determine whether she is worthy of any real reinvestment on your part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker

Wow, ok, well... for starters I might be in a similar boat, only a year or two further along. My quick (as possible!) background story:

My wife and I married in 2003, one daughter born in 2004. She grew up without a father figure. I had issues with pornography, unfair marital expectations, selfishness, etc. The porn led to interests in perversions like sharing/swinging which we dabbled in, never went far with, but it hurt her like hell to see me willing to share her. She ended up engaging in a series of affairs, most of which I would catch her in and things would get worse. She'd become more depressed and afraid to leave. Eventually we found a great MC who showed me that I had an equal or greater share of the responsibility for how bad things were, and openly told us that our marital situation was worse than any he had ever seen. (Long story, naturally) One common thread in the affairs was that most of the guys were ****y *******s, uneducated, useless, etc. (Therapist eventually explained this is common for a woman with low self esteem, poor father figure, depressed, etc. because these ****ty men are not capable of leaving her feeling inferior or not good enough. My wife is beautiful, sexy, smart, etc. so she could have found much better guys, but women in that situation have a need to protect themselves)

Not long after I had my own wake up call in the summer of 2010 and realized where I had gone wrong myself (though as you said for yourself, no obvious "red line" crossing issues, like physical abuse, gambling, cheating, drug/alcohol issues, etc.) she hooked up with her last OM who was the worst of them all and when I caught her, she moved out with him. To describe him, he's a short bald man twice her age, worked as an overnight security guard for a warehouse, married/divorced multiple times with kids older than my wife, a drug addict and alcoholic, and a bone fide "CREEP" according to most everyone who knew him. Seriously, every person I came across that knew him described how slimy creepy he came off as. Eventually in early 2012 she discovered how deep that went when he was arrested and convicted of pursuing a sexual relationship with a 13 year old girl, sentenced to three years in prison in the fall of 2012. My wife broke off the relationship with him sometime late that summer.

The reality was that this guy was/is a master manipulator. (That's pretty common among pedophiles) He would find young women who were desperate for affection (young wives in less-than-ideal marriages or young girls with daddy issues) and would win them over by treating them like princesses to the point that they would believe all of his excuses surrounding his life. He even convinced my wife for a while after his arrest that it was all a misunderstanding, and somehow even had her believing that it was the 13 y/o's fault, that she was "asking for it". Now she realizes how messed up the very notion of that idea is. My wife was putting herself through nursing school and supporting him the entire time. Finally about 7 or 8 months after his arrest, she started opening up to me more.

Where was I this whole time? Initially I filed for divorce very quickly after she left because she has recently announced that she was an alcoholic (no one believes this is actually true now), she was hanging out with brand new friends from her ****ty job who were all known heavy drug users (one of her friends left a bag at our house containing cocaine, LSD, needles, a burnt spoon, etc.) and had initially announced that she intended to return for our daughter (6 years old at the time) to go live with her and two of these druggy friends in their trailer. I had to file to prevent that from happening, but I knew I still loved my wife despite everything. I didnt' want the divorce and made it clear to her and everyone that I was very specifically USING the system purely to protect my daughter, not to actually get a divorce. I dragged out the divorce proceedings for about six months until she and I finally had a long talk one night and she confessed that she wasn't sure she wanted the divorce. I decided to take the incredibly MASSIVE leap of faith to actually trust her on that, and dropped the divorce. (Which meant I lost what otherwise would have been an absolutely SLAM DUNK divorce for a man/father in a red state, getting 100% residential custody, child support, 50% of assets/debt) I risked it all. All the while I told myself that while her affairs/adultery were 100% wrong and hurtful, that I too shared the blame for having left her feeling so unloved and disregarded that she was left completely susceptible to a man like the manipulative OM she ended up with.

Over time, I struggled a lot, especially given that we were separated for over three years, and her affairs spanning a period of four and a half with a few short month or so long breaks in between. I dated other women constantly, probably two of which I would have called "relationships" with the last one being a real winner, but around that time is when my wife started opening up to me and I decided I should give her one more chance.

One interesting tid-bit though... Last fall I finally hired another lawyer to begin the divorce proceedings for real this time. The paperwork was drawn up. I was happy with my new girlfriend, I had a new job I loved, my finances were in order, my daughter was doing great, etc. My wife invited me to spend Halloween with her and her family so I decided to put off turning in the divorce papers for about two weeks until the day after Halloween so as not to spoil that event for my daughter. Halloween was an awesome night with her family, which made me somewhat sad to consider it over. Then on the morning of November 1st, I got laid off from my awesome job, I realized I shouldn't risk a potential round 2 custody fight while being unemployed, so I decided to delay indefinitely. In the following weeks, my wife stepped up her efforts in opening up to me, talking more, coming by to see our daughter more, etc., with no expectations. Things with the girlfriend (who had no idea my wife was entering the picture more lately, because even I didn't see it as an issue then) started to get a little weird and took a turn for the worst as we broke up about a month later, but by then I wasn't even that upset about it. I'm very confident that God was looking out for us during these last few years, especially on November 1st.

Anyways, since then, my wife, daughter and I all have been doing more and more activities together, talking more, spending holidays together, started having her spend the night with us a couple of times in the spring, and earlier this Summer my wife finally moved back home. No sex of any kind, not even kisses on the lips yet, but we've been slowly increasing physical contact. In fact we weren't even sleeping in the same bed until yesterday my wife suggested that we throw out the old junky couch I'd been sleeping on since she moved in, so last night was our first night in bed together (no hanky panky).


ANyways, so sorry for so much detail, naturally I could write soo much more. But there seemed to be a lot of similarities between our stories, and a few big differences as well. Ok my story took so long, I will split it from my actual response to your post.


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## cdbaker

I think the biggest difference I've seen is that in my case, my own issues were largely responsible for her being left so vulnerable and susceptible to predator OM. Naturally there were other issues too. In your case, you haven't admitted to any real faults of your own. Now it's certainly possible that her troubled family upbringing had a similar effect on your wife, but there is another vibe I get from your posts over the past year...

Namely, my concern is that you have clearly been put in a position of moral superiority. By that I mean your wife has cheated on you, with a despicable human being no less, you've stepped up to be a great dad to your kids and keep their lives as stable as possible, you probably have a good job and I bet all of your friends and family look up to you as a wonderful man/husband/father/etc. and you know you won't (or haven't as it were) have any trouble finding women who desperately seek these kinds of traits/qualities in a man. The concern is that IF you really do have some concerning faults that helped contribute to the breakdown of the marriage (hear me out, I'm only saying contribute), then all of the praise and moral high ground you occupy as a result of your wife's actions would easily overshadow those. It would be easy to dismiss any inkling of personal fault in light of the things your wife did, and friends/family would also be eager to dismiss those. "Dude, porn wasn't the problem. Everyone uses porn, you're wife was ****ing around on your and you've been a great dad, don't you dare blame yourself!" That sort of thing.

To clarify, I don't know you or your relationship. I'd just suggest that you be aware that IF you were responsible for any part of the breakdown, the situation you find yourself in now makes it VERY easy to dismiss those. If that is the case, any trouble issues you had before would still be present in future relationships (new relationships or with your wife) and would likely be worse. So make sure you take some time to REALLY TRULY analyze yourself, think back to all the complaints your wife leveled against you over the years and really look deep to see if you can find anything like that.

Next, I'm a little concerned with how your wife seems to feel like she needs to jump from relationship to relationship. She seems afraid of being on her own, which isn't a good thing. I'm not convinced it would be a good thing for her to move straight from living with him to moving right in with you. If/when she moves back in, you and she need to be 100% positive that she is doing so because she loves you, she wants to be a family with you, and is fully committed to doing whatever it takes to resolve any issues that present themselves. I fear that she might want to come back to you because she now realizes this new guy is a loser and you are now a better option to her. But has she resolved the issues on her end that led to the split to begin with? What steps have been taken on the part of each of you independently to ensure that this wouldn't happen again? You didn't discuss your kids in detail, but the fact that you have children at home makes it even more important that you be 100% certain that everything is happening for the right reasons, because I'm sure the initial break up was hard enough for them, but it'll be so much worse/harder on them if she were to come home and things got messy again.

I'd really suggest taking your time. In our example, if you ask me we waited about 8-9 months before my wife moved back home, and even when she did, we initially spun it as "Mommy is just spending the night for a few nights because she misses us" type of thing. She lived alone for about 16 months before moving back home, just to see that she could be independent, that she had all the opportunity in the world to find a new OM but chose not to, and to make sure that coming home was what she really wanted to do, not just choosing me because I was suddenly a better option than a convicted pedophile.

Lastly, yikes, it is concerning that she is basically cheating on him with you now. To me that is an enormous red flag. She isn't even doing him any favors by going behind his back and trying to help guide him towards independence. That guy needs a wake up call and he won't get it that way. I'd suggest that you explain what she is doing to him (cheating on him) and that she needs to make a decision and be firm about it. You clearly still love your wife and I completely understand and respect that, but you also need to be confident on where you stand with her and be protective of your kids. Don't be taken in by her sudden fear of instability, IF that is what this is. If she is just finally coming out of her cloud and can really learn from her mistakes and come home, then that would be awesome and it is worth giving her that chance, but don't roll over either.

I really wish you luck man, and look forward to updates!


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## JDL8787

cdbaker said:


> I think the biggest difference I've seen is that in my case, my own issues were largely responsible for her being left so vulnerable and susceptible to predator OM. Naturally there were other issues too. In your case, you haven't admitted to any real faults of your own. Now it's certainly possible that her troubled family upbringing had a similar effect on your wife, but there is another vibe I get from your posts over the past year...
> 
> Namely, my concern is that you have clearly been put in a position of moral superiority. By that I mean your wife has cheated on you, with a despicable human being no less, you've stepped up to be a great dad to your kids and keep their lives as stable as possible, you probably have a good job and I bet all of your friends and family look up to you as a wonderful man/husband/father/etc. and you know you won't (or haven't as it were) have any trouble finding women who desperately seek these kinds of traits/qualities in a man. The concern is that IF you really do have some concerning faults that helped contribute to the breakdown of the marriage (hear me out, I'm only saying contribute), then all of the praise and moral high ground you occupy as a result of your wife's actions would easily overshadow those. It would be easy to dismiss any inkling of personal fault in light of the things your wife did, and friends/family would also be eager to dismiss those. "Dude, porn wasn't the problem. Everyone uses porn, you're wife was ****ing around on your and you've been a great dad, don't you dare blame yourself!" That sort of thing.
> 
> To clarify, I don't know you or your relationship. I'd just suggest that you be aware that IF you were responsible for any part of the breakdown, the situation you find yourself in now makes it VERY easy to dismiss those. If that is the case, any trouble issues you had before would still be present in future relationships (new relationships or with your wife) and would likely be worse. So make sure you take some time to REALLY TRULY analyze yourself, think back to all the complaints your wife leveled against you over the years and really look deep to see if you can find anything like that.
> 
> Next, I'm a little concerned with how your wife seems to feel like she needs to jump from relationship to relationship. She seems afraid of being on her own, which isn't a good thing. I'm not convinced it would be a good thing for her to move straight from living with him to moving right in with you. If/when she moves back in, you and she need to be 100% positive that she is doing so because she loves you, she wants to be a family with you, and is fully committed to doing whatever it takes to resolve any issues that present themselves. I fear that she might want to come back to you because she now realizes this new guy is a loser and you are now a better option to her. But has she resolved the issues on her end that led to the split to begin with? What steps have been taken on the part of each of you independently to ensure that this wouldn't happen again? You didn't discuss your kids in detail, but the fact that you have children at home makes it even more important that you be 100% certain that everything is happening for the right reasons, because I'm sure the initial break up was hard enough for them, but it'll be so much worse/harder on them if she were to come home and things got messy again.
> 
> I'd really suggest taking your time. In our example, if you ask me we waited about 8-9 months before my wife moved back home, and even when she did, we initially spun it as "Mommy is just spending the night for a few nights because she misses us" type of thing. She lived alone for about 16 months before moving back home, just to see that she could be independent, that she had all the opportunity in the world to find a new OM but chose not to, and to make sure that coming home was what she really wanted to do, not just choosing me because I was suddenly a better option than a convicted pedophile.
> 
> Lastly, yikes, it is concerning that she is basically cheating on him with you now. To me that is an enormous red flag. She isn't even doing him any favors by going behind his back and trying to help guide him towards independence. That guy needs a wake up call and he won't get it that way. I'd suggest that you explain what she is doing to him (cheating on him) and that she needs to make a decision and be firm about it. You clearly still love your wife and I completely understand and respect that, but you also need to be confident on where you stand with her and be protective of your kids. Don't be taken in by her sudden fear of instability, IF that is what this is. If she is just finally coming out of her cloud and can really learn from her mistakes and come home, then that would be awesome and it is worth giving her that chance, but don't roll over either.
> 
> I really wish you luck man, and look forward to updates!


Well, the idea is for her to move back in with her mother. Since this post. We spent one day together, she told him earlier this week it was over between them and to get his S**t together, because once she finds a suitable baby sitter she is moving back to her mothers (her job requires long hour baby sitting, so she's literally stuck, or unemployed) We have no plans to live together any time soon, she and I both agree that we need to start fresh in order to have any chance at surviving as a couple... Now, to clarify, I was a terrible husband, and not in the sense that I cheated or lied or any of that mess... I just wasn't involved when it came to the kids, her, or anything outside of my own hobbies. One good example that I can think of, is every saturday that she worked, she had to be at the hospital for 6:45 AM... I had to be at work for 2 pm. I would refuse to get up and take care of the kinds, instead telling her to take them to my dads because I wanted to sleep in.

I was a selfish prick, and I treated her like garbage for a vast majority of our relationship, I always provided monetarily, and made sure she had anything material-wise that she wanted, however, I wasn't emotionally available, nor physically available when it came to taking up some slack with the kids and house work, etc...

I took her for granted, the woman loved me more than anyone I've ever known, and I know I screwed up, doesn't excuse what she did, but I'm not innocent in this whole mess. Yesterday we both took off of work to get her new bank account set up, change of address (to her moms), and locate a baby sitter for the other kids so she can stop relying on him to watch them. The ONLY thing that concerns me is that I know without a doubt she loves me, but she seems a little to intent on giving him a chance to get his stuff together before she leaves, she says she's aware that he's trying to manipulate her, and that every day in that house is miserable to her (hence telling him they are over and she's just staying until she can get out, she's not pretending to be "with" him according to her) but, why give him anymore rope to hang himself, he's more selfish than I ever was, cheating, talking bad about our children to the girls he was seeing on the side. Took advantage of her broken marriage and turned her into his sugar momma, got her living on his parents property, in their extra house, right next door to them. I may have done a lot of things to her, but I never cornered her into a position she couldn't get out of.

The only physical affection we've had since this began was an intense hug yesterday, she's always been afraid to go further with me because we had a stellar sex life and she doesn't want to complicate her emotions by jumping back into that habit (thats how our old fights would get solved, good sex, no more anger)

So she is being cautious, I am being cautious, she wants no money from me, and even though she misses her house, she wants to date first and I respect that. I miss my wife being in bed every night, but I don't miss the pain of losing her, my survival instinct won't allow her to just waltz back in, and I'm glad she respects me and herself (at this point) enough to take it slow.

Her mother also called me last night and talked to me for well over an hour telling me that her (the wife) and I grew up together, belong together, and that she never stopped praying we'd find our way back, because without me, she doesn't know what would've happened.

I'm crossing my fingers that this isn't BS and I'm getting pushed into a false sense of my life returning to me so that I can have a second chance and make it right, at the same time, I'm not naive enough to completely let my guard down... I will not be burned again.


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## cdbaker

Wow wow wow, ok, it's all clicking a bit better now.

Seriously while reading this reply I kept thinking to myself, "Bingo! I knew he had a lot to do with the break up! I called it! He was a crappy husband and left her feeling unloved and thus susceptible to a needy, manipulative ******* who is otherwise incapable of making her feel inadequate.

I don't think I explained that last part well in my last post either, and it might help you with your question of why she is "giving him more rope to hang himself" and that sort of thing. I had found myself in a similar boat with my wife in reference to her OM. I mean, I knew I had become a crappy husband, I didn't listen to her well, didn't participate in activities, was unsupportive of her needs/interests, would moan and groan when it came to helping out with our daughter or the household, wasn't around enough, etc. But I'd look at the other guy and see that and so much worse, like cheating on her (with 13 year old girl's apparently...), intense manipulation, forcing her to tattoo his name on her arm and refuse to see her family if they didn't agree to support their relationship, pushed her into even more sexually uncomfortable situations, and tried to live off her paltry income while she was also a full time student. I could understand why she left me, but not why she would choose him instead!

Well the issue my wife had when she met the OM, and I'm guessing that your wife may have also had when she met her OM, is that my wife was suffering from awful self esteem, depression, and a general desperation to feel loved/desired. She hated feeling inferior to me for years, seeing everything view me as a saint, like I was above her station. As more than one therapist friend of mine would point out, that drove her to be more interested in a guy whom no one could possibly view as being "above her" and therefore someone who was very clearly socially "beneath her" as a man, because that would allow her to be the higher ranking partner. A guy like the OM, hers and your wife's, really could never ever make them feel unworthy or inferior. They wouldn't have to worry about them leaving. For my wife, being with a crappy man meant less stress, greater self esteem and more security, in a weird/concerning way.

So I wouldn't look at him and be concerned about how he managed to win your wife's heart while you lost it. In all likelihood, he only managed to have a shot BECAUSE you mistreated her heart. If it were a fair fight however, you'd win every time, so don't sweat it. As far as why she still hangs on... that's tougher to explain I think. I imagine she could view walking away right now as kicking him while he is down, and would therefore feel better about it if she could see him propped up a bit before she leaves, or at least moving in the right direction. Maybe she feels like helping him out is the least she could do considering she is breaking her commitments to him. (even though he clearly has broken his as well) Still, if I were you, I could understand why she is willing to help him just a bit longer as I'm sure she'd rather not see him hit rock bottom considering that she did indeed care for him at one point, but I'd be really uncomfortable with her continuing to live with him, or allowing your child to be near him another moment. (I'm not sure if you said anything about your kids being allowed with him or not) For me I think I'd feel more comfortable with it if she set a deadline on the whole thing and made it clear to him that she would be done with him soon and will be left to sink or swim.

Her moving in with her mom is a GREAT idea. You too will have a lot of baggage and hurt memories to work through, on both sides. She aught to take some time to get herself together, live her life as an individual. (Though still with a few rules in place if you guys are truly in reconciliation mode. Like no dating, a commitment to regular interactions like dates, counseling, family time together, etc.) 

Just as important, if not more so, is whether or not you have truly changed your ways in the space of less than a year? I mean it sounds like you recognize many/most of your issues, but what kind of efforts have you committed to in the past year? What makes you confident that you'll be a brand new husband to her? I'm sure you realize that she'll be on the lookout for old habits, she'll be far less lenient this time and likely won't put up with them if she see's them reappear. For you and especially your kids sake, you do not want to blow it twice.

Just curious, what have you done with the divorce proceedings? Is there a final court date rapidly coming up or have you already canceled it or what?


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## tainted

JDL8787 said:


> She's been with the OM the entire time, they were engaged, had a kid, etc, etc





JDL8787 said:


> she told him earlier this week it was over between them


It might be over between them two but he'll never be out of the picture. They have a kid together. Everytime you see the kid you'll be reminded of him. 

Btw did you stop the divorce proceeding ?


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## JDL8787

tainted, the kids honestly don't concern me (in the sense that they are innocent and I won't hold anything against them), and any way I look at it I'd have to deal with this jerk forever, so I might as well be happy while doing so.

And cdbaker, I completely understand where you are coming from... its sad to see these situations mirror each other time and time again. If only men would be more attentive without having to have their lives destroyed to wake them up... its really sad, because most of the time, we don't get another chance at saving the family that we once had. This year has been full of introspection and reflection, therapy, and after my therapist had enough of me (lol) I learned how to really understand myself, why I was the way I was, and how there is no way in any universe that the way I acted as a husband, OR her response to it is acceptable for a functional relationship. We both recognized our flaws, we are taking it slow, and as of an hour and a half ago is only waiting on thursday (2 days from now) for the sitter she has lined up. If its good with the sitter to watch the kids, she's good to leave, simple as that.

Anything after that... We'll see. She told me today that he's leaving notes in her purse though, trying his mind games, and its beginning to make me angry again, even though at this point it shouldn't. I feel like I'm involved in a battle that I can't even participate in.


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## cdbaker

Yeah wow, that all has to be enormously difficult. I didn't really touch on the whole "she and her adulterous lover had a baby together" element, but that's a whole different level.

Incidentally, I'm relatively confident that my wife's 2nd affair resulted in a pregnancy, but I never got a straight answer as to what happened after that. I'd ask now, but I think it is too early and would be too painful to bring that up just yet.

I mean, I applaud you if what you are saying is true about your being able to accept this child and deal with that ******* forever. Certainly there are men who have done it, but for many it is as tainted mentioned. A constant, living reminder of the incredible pain and betrayal you had to endure, but at the same time still owing it to your wife and the innocent child to never ever allow that to cause you to treat them any differently. A good friend of mine had to make a similar decision earlier this year when his wife got pregnant during an intense affair, confirmed it wasn't his, and for a while was wanting to reconcile with him. That's tough, and it would take a very forgiving heart, and in my personal view, faith in a loving God.

Yeah I know what you mean about it feeling like a battle that you can't participate in. I also think you are doing the right thing by staying out of that battle, even though I'm guessing you really want to get involved. It's best that she prove that she has the resiliency to fight that battle and escape him all by herself. Certainly you want to stay informed though and make sure she's being fully honest and forthright with where things stand. I know his attempts to win her back is making you angry, but I imagine you also understand that she is the mother of his child too, so there is at least some noble intent behind his actions, even if his methods are still mostly manipulative, began by stealing your wife away, and would end in him continuing to use her if he has his way.

Please do keep us posted, and I really hope she can indeed walk away asap.


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## JDL8787

cdbaker said:


> Yeah wow, that all has to be enormously difficult. I didn't really touch on the whole "she and her adulterous lover had a baby together" element, but that's a whole different level.
> 
> Incidentally, I'm relatively confident that my wife's 2nd affair resulted in a pregnancy, but I never got a straight answer as to what happened after that. I'd ask now, but I think it is too early and would be too painful to bring that up just yet.
> 
> I mean, I applaud you if what you are saying is true about your being able to accept this child and deal with that ******* forever. Certainly there are men who have done it, but for many it is as tainted mentioned. A constant, living reminder of the incredible pain and betrayal you had to endure, but at the same time still owing it to your wife and the innocent child to never ever allow that to cause you to treat them any differently. A good friend of mine had to make a similar decision earlier this year when his wife got pregnant during an intense affair, confirmed it wasn't his, and for a while was wanting to reconcile with him. That's tough, and it would take a very forgiving heart, and in my personal view, faith in a loving God.
> 
> Yeah I know what you mean about it feeling like a battle that you can't participate in. I also think you are doing the right thing by staying out of that battle, even though I'm guessing you really want to get involved. It's best that she prove that she has the resiliency to fight that battle and escape him all by herself. Certainly you want to stay informed though and make sure she's being fully honest and forthright with where things stand. I know his attempts to win her back is making you angry, but I imagine you also understand that she is the mother of his child too, so there is at least some noble intent behind his actions, even if his methods are still mostly manipulative, began by stealing your wife away, and would end in him continuing to use her if he has his way.
> 
> Please do keep us posted, and I really hope she can indeed walk away asap.


I loved this woman from the day I met her, we both screwed up... her a bit more, but I would do anything for her, and those kids are innocent... I can grow to love them as step children, and I'm ok with it.

But it is so easy to get discouraged in the stage that I'm in, like today, she called me for 3 minutes, because when shes off he tags along with her wherever she goes, last night she stopped at the house for an hour to just talk and bullsh*t about us and our kids, but today, I had put in place a few things to help her get out and she was interested in the progress, snuck out of the Ihop they were eating in to talk to me, he comes outside, she gets all panicky and switches to "i'm just talking to my baby daddy" mode as to not alert him... Now I know, she can't just tell him to go f**k himself and stay home (he has no car and he's letting her live there until shes got a sitter) but I don't like the fact they go places, even if she does call to check in.

Maybe I just can't stand this uncertainty, as to where 2 months ago I was fine with us being divorced... ugh, I'm just ready to start rebuilding, we're hugging intensely again, so thats a step I guess. I know she wants to kiss me by the way she stares into my eyes, but I avoid it for now... We have a date set up to see a movie sequel that we both loved the original (and saw together), then dinner/beers after. But it can't happen until she's out, because if he catches wind of us talking again, he'll throw her out or worse.


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## cdbaker

Maybe I missed it but just to clarify... did she have one child with the OM, or two? Your original post said "had a kid together" but more than once since then you have used plural adjectives, like above when you say, "I can grow to love them as step children".

I know that the incredible pain that led to uncertainty, which led to closure and acceptance, and then now back to uncertainty again is a rough roller coaster. I think it's a good idea to avoid anything physical with her at all, not just for you but for her as well. I think one part of that message that you want to send is that you are not willing to share her, and you don't want her if she thinks it is acceptable to be with you both at the same time. Honestly I wouldn't even do any "intense" hugging either. If she wants that or more with you, she needs to understand clearly what it will take.

I guess there are a few things I'm still confused about... 

1. Didn't you mention that she has already told him that they are finished and she is moving on? (If so, why is he keeping such close tabs on her and being panicky about it?)
2. By adding, "as to not alert him..." I'm assuming that means that she has not told him that you and her are actively considering a reconciliation? Why would she not tell him that too? This would equate to deception, which isn't a good thing, regardless of who she is deceiving...
3. Just curious, what kinds of things have you "put in place to help her get out"?
4. If he isn't working or financially independent, then I'm guessing she has been paying for their living arrangements, so I don't think he is really in a position to dictate whether or not she can stay there or not?
5. You said if he catches wind that you two are talking again (doesn't he already know you are talking if she said she was talking to her "baby daddy"?), that he'll throw her out or worse? What would be bad about her being thrown out if she already has arrangements to move out? And what could be worse?

Just a few things there that seem unclear at the moment. I too am confused as to why she feels the need to still go places with him or commit to activities with him. That part doesn't really make sense to me at all actually, and combined with his reaction to her stepping out to talk to you on the phone, actually leaves me concerned. Are you positive that she has told him that they are indeed over, that she intends to move out, that the wedding is off and that there is no possible chance she'll change her mind? Because I can't think of why he would react that way unless he felt that he still has a right to be concerned about her seeing/speaking to other men. He can be upset about it, that's reasonable, but following her around in a panic because he's concerned about who she's talking to?

It might be nothing, but nonetheless, I wouldn't cancel anything or promise anything for her just yet. If you haven't stopped the divorce process, I would just try to put it on hold for a little while if you have a court date coming up soon or something like that, ask for a continuance perhaps. Don't start clearing out space in the house for her or anything like that though. She needs to know clearly what you require of her if she wants reconciliation to be an option. Further, if she is deceiving him in some way, I would really truly suggest that you let her know that isn't ok either. An exception to that might be if she feared for her or her kids safety or something like that, but it doesn't sound like that is the case...


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## JDL8787

cdbaker said:


> Maybe I missed it but just to clarify... did she have one child with the OM, or two? Your original post said "had a kid together" but more than once since then you have used plural adjectives, like above when you say, "I can grow to love them as step children".
> 
> I know that the incredible pain that led to uncertainty, which led to closure and acceptance, and then now back to uncertainty again is a rough roller coaster. I think it's a good idea to avoid anything physical with her at all, not just for you but for her as well. I think one part of that message that you want to send is that you are not willing to share her, and you don't want her if she thinks it is acceptable to be with you both at the same time. Honestly I wouldn't even do any "intense" hugging either. If she wants that or more with you, she needs to understand clearly what it will take.
> 
> I guess there are a few things I'm still confused about...
> 
> 1. Didn't you mention that she has already told him that they are finished and she is moving on? (If so, why is he keeping such close tabs on her and being panicky about it?)
> 2. By adding, "as to not alert him..." I'm assuming that means that she has not told him that you and her are actively considering a reconciliation? Why would she not tell him that too? This would equate to deception, which isn't a good thing, regardless of who she is deceiving...
> 3. Just curious, what kinds of things have you "put in place to help her get out"?
> 4. If he isn't working or financially independent, then I'm guessing she has been paying for their living arrangements, so I don't think he is really in a position to dictate whether or not she can stay there or not?
> 5. You said if he catches wind that you two are talking again (doesn't he already know you are talking if she said she was talking to her "baby daddy"?), that he'll throw her out or worse? What would be bad about her being thrown out if she already has arrangements to move out? And what could be worse?
> 
> Just a few things there that seem unclear at the moment. I too am confused as to why she feels the need to still go places with him or commit to activities with him. That part doesn't really make sense to me at all actually, and combined with his reaction to her stepping out to talk to you on the phone, actually leaves me concerned. Are you positive that she has told him that they are indeed over, that she intends to move out, that the wedding is off and that there is no possible chance she'll change her mind? Because I can't think of why he would react that way unless he felt that he still has a right to be concerned about her seeing/speaking to other men. He can be upset about it, that's reasonable, but following her around in a panic because he's concerned about who she's talking to?
> 
> It might be nothing, but nonetheless, I wouldn't cancel anything or promise anything for her just yet. If you haven't stopped the divorce process, I would just try to put it on hold for a little while if you have a court date coming up soon or something like that, ask for a continuance perhaps. Don't start clearing out space in the house for her or anything like that though. She needs to know clearly what you require of her if she wants reconciliation to be an option. Further, if she is deceiving him in some way, I would really truly suggest that you let her know that isn't ok either. An exception to that might be if she feared for her or her kids safety or something like that, but it doesn't sound like that is the case...


1. He is obsessive, and controlling. She is allowed to live in his house (his parents house, who are supplying it to them for free) until she gets a baby sitter (she works 12 hour shifts as a nurse so normal babysitting does not work) But yes, she has told him, he is trying to make her reconsider.
2. She doesn't want him to know until she is out of there and back at her moms, she doesn't know him well (shes admitted to this herself) The guy hates me, and will certainly start mess if and when he finds out (either way he will... I'm not getting dragged in the dirt again)
3. Helping with baby sitters, getting supplies (for free) for the new baby. a few other things, taking my kids to live with me full time during the transition (it was 50/50 before, now they are home full time)
4. He doesn't work, has no license or car. But, they are staying on his parents property, in their house, for free.
5. Her not having a baby sitter for their kid and having to quit her job, and worse would be him beating on her or something to that effect.

Don't get me wrong, there isn't so much as a want for me to do anything physical with her until she is OUT of that house, until then, I am shut down. Also, I called my lawyer earlier today and told him that we are NOT cancelling anything yet. I am cautious. I believe things to a certain point, but talk is cheap, I want her out before anything even begins, much less gets cancelled if you know what I'm saying


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## LongWalk

How are things going now?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## JDL8787

LongWalk said:


> How are things going now?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Oddly enough, things are going well. Shes moved back in. All the kids are back home (Mine are here full time which is great) We are taking a family vacation this weekend, and although the initial month we started talking about getting back together there was no "physical" things going on, we've returned to a semi normal relationship. We sleep in the same bed, normal kisses and hugs and cuddling and all that stuff is back in full swing, she's paying bills in the house and all that jazz. However in the past month, we've only had sex maybe 7 times? We both work a lot, and have 3 kids running around in the house, one of them a baby, am I being a little over expecting to expect more sex (Pre-kids we would go 2-3 times a day average, even 2 years after being married)

As far as the other guy goes, everyone but him knows that we are back together. She is afraid if he finds out, he's going to use his families money to take her to court and take the kids away from her for good, or at least, that what she says. We've argued about our positions on the matter, so bringing it up does no good. Our relationship internally is about 90% back to normal, externally though, is kind of on the DL. She says she wants to get custody papers done before she outs us being back together to the other side.

ANYWAY. She only stayed in there until right after my last post, lived with her mom for a few weeks, then moved back in. I'm still worried this will crash down on my head, maybe I'm being paranoid, maybe not... who knows.

Let me just add. I know I'll probably get the negative responses, and thats fine. When it comes down to it though, is it really any of his business knowing that we are back together...? I personally don't give a flying f**k about his opinion. I know she's told him several times to keep it about their offspring and that alone. He's withdrawn a ton over the 2 month span and seems to be leaving her alone for the most part other than discussing her dropping off the OK every other weekend.


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## tainted

I wouldn't let her move back in so quick. You need to protect yourself and keep your guard up. I don't understand why you didn't go through with the divorce. You waited all this time for it to be finalize and at the last min you backed down. You could of still dated your wife after divorcing her and that way take things slow.


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## cdbaker

Yeah I'd say you are taking a huge risk here, but I cant' blame you for doing so at the same time. (Take a look at my story sometime and you'll see what I mean)

I'd say that the important thing to watch out for is to just make sure she is following through with the things she says and promises. In this case, make sure she isn't wasting any time to get the legal stuff in order for custody. Any feet dragging there would be a huge red flag for me. The idea being that you should are not comfortable with this being on the DL, and any sign that she wants it to remain that way is a HUGE red flag. Her commitment needs to be to you OR him, 100%. 

In any case, have you read "No more Mr. Nice Guy" or "Married Man's Sex Life Primer 2011" yet? I'd recommend both!


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## Omegaa

You titled "insanity".

Love is a form of insanity which isn't dictated by logic/reason...(which of course, you already know)

I also read cdbaker's brilliant thread too.. not all pages, mind.

These threads did help me restore my faith in Men. You guys are amazing. Hope things will work out for you two...

I have similar issues going on which I can easily related with...


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