# The Aftermath



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Haven't seen any topics on how this affected folks as a betryed spouse or partner.
I'll start. At first, it had a dramatic effect physically and emotionally. I have PTSD, although it is better now. I lost 40 lbs(and I was not heavy) in 3 months. Almost lost my job. I was pretty messed up.
I weathered the worst of it. Now, 5 years post divorce, I know so much about infidelity and personality disorders it is frightening. I read eveything and talked to many, many people who have dealt with both.
Now, I am calm, back in shape, pretty happy. But, I feel I just know way too much to ever trust again. I don't know if I can ever trust a woman again. And, I like women. i have many female friends.
It's just that infidelity is so rampant, way more common than I ever imgined. I see it everywhere, now. At my workplace, among the lawyers I practice with, in my golf students, many of the judges I appear before and on and on.
Who the hell knew this was going on all over the place. And, it is so incredibly accepted annd trivialized. Folks who have not been through it view it as just another little, minor deal, like a fender bender or something. Only folks who have been through it, get it. Others are amazed that you are not over it and happy, like the characters they saw on their soap opera or desperate houseiwes or whatever movie, who were just fine in a week or so.
The reality is that folks die due to this. They lose jobs and become sick. They develop sleep problems and eating problems and major depression.
I've been through some tough stuff, but nothing compares. But, i am on the other side of it,finally. I am freer, realizing that almost nothing, other than an injury to one of my kids, could ever hurt me as badly as this. It is sort of like Jeff Bridges character in "Fearless". after he survives a plane crash. I ahve no real fear doing anything.
I have shot the best scores of my life, at 57, because I realize the insignificance of messing up a round. I have won more cases, because I am not afraid to take chances. I guess there was some good that came of it.
Anyway, what has this been like for others, the acute phase and the longterm effects?


----------



## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

Arnold, You sound like a very strong, ethical, and sensitive person. I can relate to what you wrote & I thank you for sharing. I also feel_ I _am stronger having survived this. I don't think _my marriage_ is stronger, just different. It's pretty clear I was more blindly devoted to him than him to me and that has to change and I am working on loving myself now.....still trying to keep a healthy balance and move on but it's hard some days the memories come crashing down on me. It doesn't help that we went to the "marriage counselor from hell" who was an older baptist woman that blamed me for the whole thing & even convinced him it was all my fault for not meeting all of his needs. Thank goodness I went to more reputable counsel on my own that explained to me what a midlife crises is.......and it isn't my fault for getting old. I can't compete with someone 20 years younger than me. Oh how I can obsess on some days but MOST days I am BETTER and STRONGER. Someday I hope to get an apology from my husband but if I don't I will still be stronger and more independent. I focus on other people & other relationships more now, it is what it is. Peace out : )


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I think many men end up being the walking wounded for many many years.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

As do women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

I tanked a home business, lost at least 15 to 20 lbs in the first 3 or 4 months, have PTSD and anxiety issues. Bad triggers (music, movies, books). Cycling mood swings going from almost a euphoric high to a dark and mean down. Cardiac issues started happening too about a month after D-day (palpitations, arrhythmias, shortness of breath, chest pressure that radiates to the neck and face as well as head) variant migraines with auras. Syncope (dizziness) and sudden blood pressure drops. These physical symptoms continue intermittently still while worsening 2 or 3 days every 4 or 5 months.

I'll be 1 yr out from D-day in January. Not to say there hasn't been improvement over the last (almost) year but I hit a very deep low before it started coming back up again 5 weeks ago. I'm not completely there yet, don't know if I ever will be the same. Probably never will be the same.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

RWB, may I ask why you stay with her? Serail cheaters are a special breed, vry damaged and damaging.MY wife serially cheated, as well. And, like you describe your wife, my XW was very adept at lying and playing a part for the outside world.
I felt that if I stayed, I would hate her and never let go of what she had done(of course, she had no remorse and blamed me).
But, seriously, it sounds like you have a good handle on who/what your wife is. Why stay with someone like that?


----------



## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Dday for me and my husband was 9/24. I have already lost 9 pounds so far... . Funny that NOW he is worried about me...


----------



## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

RWB said:


> Arnold,
> I'm 2+ years out. We are still together. As YC wrote… "I don't think my marriage is stronger, just different." that's me.
> 
> Being cheated on after decades of marriage changes you at the core. In 50+ years, I have endured intense pain due to physical injuries. But, nothing can compare to the inner pain (mental and physical) that I endured after discovering my wife was cheating on me for years. 2 years out, it no longer intense. It’s more like a loss. My MC said it’s very similar to grieving process due to the death of child. I don’t know about that.
> ...


I lost my son to cancer; and the grieving process is not the same at all. My son died through not fault of his own; he did not leave me willingly. My son had no choice in the matter. My H, did. He chose to lie and cheat and betray. He thought only of himself. My son was unselfish to the end and I never doubted his love for me. Now I doubt that I am truly loved every day, and H's reassurances do not erase the fact that he could have chosen to be faithful, and that if he had, he would not need to try to convince me of his love. The memory of my son is sweet. My time with him was filled with joy and pride. I had pride and joy in my marriage once too, but I don't feel that now, and likely never will again. I will never stop missing my son, but I am comforted by the beauty of who he was, and the kindness and honor with which he lived. I have no such comfort to help me through the grief of my H's betrayal.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

The above is exactly what Harley reports in his study of the effects of infidlity. The volitional betrayal vs the unchosen tragedy of a child dying. Very well stated above.

But, you know, if you put this concept out there, some folks twist it. They think you are exaggerating(these are, for the most part, folks who have not been the victim of infidelity). And, they try to twit your words as if you are saying you would rather lose kid than go throguh this.
I have 5 kids. One was on the verge of death regularly. I would go through infidelity a thousand times rather than lose one of my kids or have them hurt. But, it is a relatively easy distinction to make between the difficulty of recovery from infidelity and recovery from the loss of a child. No one is saying he or she would prefer harm to heir child, Just that that type of loss does not involve all the volitional betrayal, the vitiation of memories, and the constant triggers brought on by continuing to del with your cheating spouse.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oaks--great post. It's said that in some ways divorce is worse than a death of a loved one for that reason. Because the divorce means someone chose not to be with you (and this is even moreso when a betrayal/infidelity is involved). 

I am sorry about the loss of your son. 

Arnold, I like that phrase "volitional betrayals."


----------



## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Seriously, I feel like I am going to die... my stbx has just moved right the heck on and keeps telling me I should just be civil for the children. He moved in with the woman a week ago... I mean really???

I can barely function, and I have the kids.... this is the worst thing ever.


----------



## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

RWB said:


> Arnold,
> Here’s the thing, I had been married to her for 30 years at D-Day. I knew who she really was. I saw her as someone that had a good moral compass, trustworthy, not perfect but honest. She was none of these. She was only a great pretender, a convincing liar, and a confirmed serial cheater. She fooled friends, she fooled parents, she fooled our children, and she fooled me.


This is what I cannot get over....I don't know how


----------



## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Arnold said:


> ...
> Now, I am calm, back in shape, pretty happy. But, I feel I just know way too much to ever trust again. I don't know if I can ever trust a woman again. And, I like women. i have many female friends.
> It's just that infidelity is so rampant, way more common than I ever imgined. I see it everywhere, now.
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you mean. Once you learn what we have you can't escape the awareness it brings. You see things as they are, the casual brutality of women becomes apparent and with it the horrifying truth of human relations. Your eyes have been opened to the betrayal all around you, the hints and subtle offers, the inappropriate flirting, the easy seductions of seemingly faithful women. You realize how naive you once were, how easily manipulated...


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

ren said:


> I know exactly what you mean. Once you learn what we have you can't escape the awareness it brings. You see things as they are, the casual brutality of women becomes apparent and with it the horrifying truth of human relations. Your eyes have been opened to the betrayal all around you, the hints and subtle offers, the inappropriate flirting, the easy seductions of seemingly faithful women. You realize how naive you once were, how easily manipulated...


What we have here is a male awareness of what women have had to deal with throughout time but which we are just now experiencing ourselves as men.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

RWB said:


> Arnold,
> 
> "... sounds like you have a good handle on who/what your wife is. Why stay with someone like that?"
> 
> In a word... Mercy.


Yeah, I wonder if someone like your wife appreciates"mercy" or if she would have any on you if you needed it.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

morituri said:


> What we have here is a male awareness of what women have had to deal with throughout time but which we are just now experiencing ourselves as men.


IMO, men have always dealt with this. I agree, women have greater opportunity now, but women have always cheated.

Interesting, isn't it, how "morality" really follows real world changes vs being absolute. Once woemn had the same opportunities as men, and with the divorce laws failing to keep pace with women's advancements, today's environment seems to me to be actually more conducive to women cheating than men, The consequences seem less for a woman, in terms of access to the kids and child support inflowing etc.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

ren said:


> I know exactly what you mean. Once you learn what we have you can't escape the awareness it brings. You see things as they are, the casual brutality of women becomes apparent and with it the horrifying truth of human relations. Your eyes have been opened to the betrayal all around you, the hints and subtle offers, the inappropriate flirting, the easy seductions of seemingly faithful women. You realize how naive you once were, how easily manipulated...


Exactly, I see it everywhere , in both genders. But, for some reason, before this, I had no idea of the power of the female sex drive to overcome morals. And, I had no idea how many women were dog like, just like some men.
I've read so much about women as sociopaths and NPDs etc and how society has failed to realize that both genders are , pretty equally, represented among the disordered and predatory. 
Just today, a female colleague came into my office bewildered by the fact that a guy she started seeing about two weeks ago had not initiated sex yet. I was amazed. 
No to get too off topic, but this Mark Rudov guy, and a couple other authors I've read makes a strong case for females having voracious sexual appetities. Yet, I still see this claim that men cheat for sex and women for love. Seem pretty bogus to me. Most of the women I have dated , recently ,want to peel off their clothes relatively soon. So. I guess they "love" me, right?


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Arnold said:


> No to get too off topic, but this Mark Rudov guy, and a couple other authors I've read makes a strong case for females having voracious sexual appetities. Yet, *I still see this claim that men cheat for sex and women for love. Seem pretty bogus to me. Most of the women I have dated , recently ,want to peel off their clothes relatively soon. So. I guess they "love" me, right?*


:lol::rofl:


----------



## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Exactly, I see it everywhere , in both genders. But, for some reason, before this, I had no idea of the power of the female sex drive to overcome morals. And, I had no idea how many women were dog like, just like some men.


It's definitely not unique to women, but I do think the logic of it is generally different than in men. We think in terms of our libido driving us, it makes the dynamics of cheating relatively straightforward. We know we want sex, we know we seek sex. With women it seems like they typically don't think in terms of their libido, even though it drives them the kind of awareness of linear causality we have seems to be missing. I do think women cheating is still ultimately about sex, but the dynamics of it are complicated in ways that my masculine psyche is incapable of comprehending. When it comes to sex it seems like there is a specific fundamental disconnect between women's biological impulses and how their minds explain those impulses that prevents them from being self-aware in the simple-minded way men are about sexual desire.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yeah, well here is Michelle Langley's(some woman who used to have a website about this) take on that, ren:
She claims men are taught, relatively eraly that lust/sexual attraction does not mean love. Tye are taught that it is acceptable to lust after women and they are not bad for doing so,withiut love.

Women, on the other hand, get the message that if they feel lust without love, they are ****s. So, when their testosterone ovetakes their their estrogen and they start going lust crazy in their late 30's , they start lusting after ****. But, since they do not want ot feel like ****s, they have to inject this concept of "love"into it.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Interesting topic, My own after math is alot healtier for me and my fWW.
For 19 years I enjoyed the trophy wife, subservant sex partner and all the complaining of how crappy I was was directed to the OM. Granted in the beginning of my marriage she complained so much I just had to tell her to go get a boytoy and leave me alone....I'll let you know when I want you...kind of thing.

Poor bastard (OM's) had to listen to all the neglect I was doing as a husband and then had to taste me...if you know what I mean.

I guess the bottom line is even with our bad behaviors there was still this connection that we both capitalized on. After I confronted her about the changes I wanted we both agreed to start a healthier marriage. Her part was to stop using OM's my part was to start giving a damb about her.

So the aftermath of my old marriage is two different poeple, with a new relationship and healtier behaviors. The only way I can put it is, making an investment that has little payout in the short term, but gamble on the a greater pay out in the long run.

Granted I could have liquidated, and taken my chances on another investment, bit I choose to see what the next 20 years has instore for this stock I call marriage.

Its wierd, as a young man I felt that the abuse I did to her in the past was some how... how thing were ment to be. In my wifes view, her behavior was just a bandaid in getting through the crap she had to but up with. I wish I had an excuse for my past behaviors...for now I just tell her I was young and was never taught how to love. 

I did learn another thing in the aftermath of my wifes affairs, becareful what you wish for. A dirty girl in my bed doesnt always mean she is just being dirty in my bed!!!!!


----------



## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

I guess this thread only proves the danger of generalizations. We all experience different things and no one size fits all when it comes to relationships.

In my case, I ma the cheater. Oh my wife knows, but we covered it in a 2-3 hour conversation and it never came up again. She was on vacation with her girlfriends 4 days later and we've never discussed the topic since then. Devastation.....hardly.

We have been sexless for ~4 years and struggled for about a decade prior to that. 

As far as which gender cheats and for what reasons. I wouldn't paint men or women with any one brush. I've seen it happen for a diverse list of reasons. Personally, despite being a male, I wanted companionship. Granted I love sex, assume most adults do, but I absolutely need to feel close to another human and my wife and I cannot seem to find it....


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

mr_confused said:


> Personally, despite being a male, I wanted companionship. Granted I love sex, assume most adults do, but I absolutely need to feel close to another human and my wife and I cannot seem to find it....


So why not just get a divorce already? What's the delay? Your affair has been going on for awhile right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

morituri said:


> What we have here is a male awareness of what women have had to deal with throughout time but which we are just now experiencing ourselves as men.


Silly uninformed statement. Go on google or wiki and look up chastity belts. They have been around since the middle ages. Girls cheated back then. Hell look at the legend of King Arthur and guenevere giving it up to lancealot.


----------



## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

I will. I had to get some financial matters in order and wanted my child to mature a little. My primary objective to provide a secure setting for my child where she is not forced to move, change schools, drop hobbies/sport interests. The most difficult part will be her adjusting to divorced parents and I don't want to compound it with changing homes and schools as those are atop most lists of causes for stress in children/adults.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

No one should have to go through life without sex and intimacy. You are justified in divorcing, Mr Confused. Sounds like you know this , but are scared. Your kid will be alright.


----------

